# Schiit Owners Unite



## hodgjy

We seem to have several threads of Schiit (or Schiit threads) weaving throughout Head-Fi, which are hard to keep track of from day to day.  Based on the highly successful "Woo Owners Unite" thread, which I am also a member, I think we should have a Schiit owners thread.  I found the Woo thread to be a great place to talk about gear we have in common and make connections on a more personal level. 
   
  I hope this Schiit thread is a good place for us owners to hang out and chat.
   
  I'll go first.  I have the Asgard and really like it.  I think it's a smooth and very musical amp.  It pairs very nicely with my HD600s and DT900/600s.  I don't think I'll ever sell or trade it.  It's a keeper.
   
  P.S. Dear moderators, I searched many times looking for such a thread, and I found none to exist.  My apologies in advance if this thread is a duplicate.  Delete or merge at will!


----------



## Raser

Im going to be a Asgard owner probably next week. Lots of positive opinions, hope that it will be worth the money


----------



## wberghofer

hodgjy said:


> I'll go first.  I have the Asgard and really like it.[…]


 
   
  Mind if I join? There are two Bifrost DACs, two Valhallas and one Lyr in my home. I’m very happy with this equipment!
   
  Werner.


----------



## BlueAlien

I just received my Bifrost and Lyr this week for my AKG k702's. Being both my first dedicated Dac and headphone amp, I am blown away by the sound. I'll have to start tube rolling soon too!


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> We seem to have several threads of Schiit (or Schiit threads) weaving throughout Head-Fi, which are hard to keep track of from day to day.  Based on the highly successful "Woo Owners Unite" thread, which I am also a member, I think we should have a Schiit owners thread.  I found the Woo thread to be a great place to talk about gear we have in common and make connections on a more personal level.
> 
> I hope this Schiit thread is a good place for us owners to hang out and chat.
> 
> ...


 
  What's happening hodgjy! 
   
  If I remember correctly you posted in a thread regarding the Onkyo C-S5VL Super Audio CD player. I probably could of done a quick search to verify this but I'm rather lazy, so if this is correct, are you using this primarily as your source with the Asgard? I recently purchased one to pair with my Lyr but have yet to hook it all up as I've had to move my office/listening room to another smaller room to accommodate my second child (it's actually been almost 5 months... lazy!). Are you still using filter 4? I know the Asgard is a different animal than the Lyr but they are from the same Schiit family. I guess this is more of a "Budget Audiophile CD Players Unite" question. Thanks!
   





  J


----------



## hodgjy

You are correct.  I'm still using the Onkyo and I still like it a lot.  I primarily use it as the source for my Trafomatic, but it still gets plugged into the Asgard.  They are a good combo.  The Onkyo is quite smooth, and so is the Asgard.  I switch between filter 4 and 5. I found filter 4 to be the smoothest, but it's not as airy as filter 5.  Filter 5 is more airy, but has a little more treble roll off than filter 4.  So, I switch back and forth depending on my mood and the recording quality.


----------



## Dennito

I'm happy to join in albeit prematurely. My Asgard is en route and should be delivered this week. I bought it after reading every page of the "unboxing the Schiit Asgard" thread. There were many happy owners and only two dissenters. I was also impressed by the way Jason of Schiit was very responsive to issues and concerns. Schiit seems like a terrific company with which to do business. Really looking forward to firing up the Asgard and comparing it to the Fiio E9.


----------



## Locknar

Nice! Thanks for the impressions. I too bought the Onkyo primarily for redbook playback and from the reviews, the overwhelming consensus seems to be that filter 4 is the sweet spot. Of course I will try them all to judge for myself, but it's nice to hear from a fellow headphone and Schiit (ha ha) enthusiast. I'll be sure to post my impressions on this thread as soon as I have it all up and running.
   




  J


----------



## hodgjy

The Onkyo is an interesting player because I think it's better at redbook than SACD. That is fine with me because I only own about four SACDs. I think it's a very good player that performs at its price point. It's better than some of my low end players, but I've demoed some better players costing quite a bit more.


----------



## Locknar

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Onkyo is an interesting player because I think it's better at redbook than SACD. That is fine with me because I only own about four SACDs. I think it's a very good player that performs at its price point. It's better than some of my low end players, but I've demoed some better players costing quite a bit more.


 

 That's the rub I think "better players costing quite a bit more". If I haven't heard them then I don't know what I'm missing. I'm not one to lay down a 100%-1000% more money for slight to moderate improvements. I'm more than happy with "mid-fi"... unless of course I find myself rolling in dough one day. Your review was one of the reasons I chose the Onkyo over the Marantz (5004?), so thanks again. Of course I still haven't actually used it. I'm sure I'll dig it though. 
   




  J


----------



## hodgjy

I'm glad my review helped! 

I've always said the jump from low fi to mid fi is a lot cheaper and easier than the jump from mid fi to hi fi. For example, a $350 CD player will be noticeably better than a $35 player. But getting noticeable improvement over a $350 player may require breaking the $1000 mark. I'm quite happy with my $350 Onkyo. It sounds smoother and more musical than my Yamaha universal player, which cost $500 when new (I got it for $79 on an Amazon blow out special). I realize this statement contradicts what I just said, but I consider it apples to oranges because the Yamaha is really a DVD player with the added function of CD playback, so it's not a dedicated CD player with the best music circuitry in mind.


----------



## Locknar

Sorry hodgjy! Seems I may have derailed your thread before it's had a chance with all the Onkyo talk. So back on track... I'm a Schiit lover. Especially my Schiit (the Lyr). To my ears, it's a killer amp. It's also really cool looking and very affordable considering the quality construction and performance comparative to other more pricey amps (Caveat: based on what I've read, this is the most expensive amp I've owned or even heard). To top it off the customer care is top notch and friendly. Very happy with my Schiit! 
   




  J


----------



## hodgjy

You didn't derail anything. CD players are certainly germane to any headphone conversation.

I've been using my Asgard more than normal lately because I'm waiting for a new rectifier tube to arrive for my tube amp. While I am waiting, I thought I'd use my Asgard more. I put some highly difficult, detailed music through it and it came out like a champ. Its soundstage isn't as wide as my tube amp, but it is almost as smooth as musical. I really like it. It's a pretty darn good accomplishment from the guys at Schiit to get that much of an amp into $250.


----------



## Misterrogers

Long time (relatively) Schiit user/fan. 1 Asgard, 2 Lyrs, 2 Bifrosts (USB). Bang for buck, they're hard to beat. Top notch support, american made, good people - what's not to like?


----------



## MattTCG

I'm not an owner but looking to buy the Asgard. It seems to be very nice. I had the lyr for a short while and it ran very hot. Is that normal with this line?


----------



## hodgjy

Yep, class A amps run very warm.  My Asgard gets nice and toasty, but it's not the hottest amp I've ever used.  I think the Asgard heat is greatly misunderstood.  Since it is relatively inexpensive, it may likely be the first dedicated desktop amp people may buy.  If they're coming from the world of iPods and computer audio, the heat of the Asgard may be startling at first.  This is why Schiit probably went overboard to mention the heat.  But, it's normal.  I've certainly felt hotter.
  
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm not an owner but looking to buy the Asgard. It seems to be very nice. I had the lyr for a short while and it ran very hot. Is that normal with this line?


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, thanks. I don't have any other reservations about the Asgard. Looks very, very nice!!


----------



## Austin Morrow

I have the Schiit Valhalla, and it gets quite hot. I really do think it's a very nice headphone amp for the price you pay, as it opened up the potential of my HD650's a little more.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi.
  I was looking for desktop headphone amp for awhile, but now I'm leading toward Schiit.
  However, I can't decide which Schiit.  I like to get either Vallhalla or Lyr, but I want Lyr...but
  my bank account said Vallhalla.. I have sennheiser hd800, which one would be good for
  hd800?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Chris_Himself

I'm going to have a Lyr and  Bifrost next week!
   
  I'm going to compare the Bifrost to my HDP which to me is probably the best DAC for under 1k.. I've tried a lot of the overseas stuff, but something just magical about this little hand-sized device that blows my mind.


----------



## Misterrogers

Valhalla may perform slightly better with high impedance headphones, but Lyr handles that, and orthos, and is an awesome tube rolling amp - allowing you to tweak until your hearts content.
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi.
> I was looking for desktop headphone amp for awhile, but now I'm leading toward Schiit.
> However, I can't decide which Schiit.  I like to get either Vallhalla or Lyr, but I want Lyr...but
> my bank account said Vallhalla.. I have sennheiser hd800, which one would be good for
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

The Lyr is really intended for really hard to drive headphones, like orthos and the AKG 701. It does have a higher noise floor, too. For your HD800s, I'd recommend the Valhalla. It's noise floor is lower, it has ample voltage for the 300 ohm impedance, and it's cheaper, too.



gmahler2u said:


> Hi.
> I was looking for desktop headphone amp for awhile, but now I'm leading toward Schiit.
> However, I can't decide which Schiit.  I like to get either Vallhalla or Lyr, but I want Lyr...but
> my bank account said Vallhalla.. I have sennheiser hd800, which one would be good for
> ...


----------



## Lorspeaker

i am having so much fun with the LYR marshaling the pro900,
  no sibilance and well energized bass...
  the music is organic. Great amp.
   
  i wont be surprised if the hybrid LYR would do a great job on the hd800,
  i had a hybrid EF5 before tied to a hd800, and i gotten similar results as the above.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Lyr is really intended for really hard to drive headphones, like orthos and the AKG 701. It does have a higher noise floor, too. For your HD800s, I'd recommend the Valhalla. It's noise floor is lower, it has ample voltage for the 300 ohm impedance, and it's cheaper, too.


 


  And, both the Valhalla and the Asgard sound great with the HD800. Not as good as a really high end amplifier, but they both do the job of driving the HD800 very well.


----------



## hodgjy

I've never heard the HD800s, but I can confirm the Asgard sounds very nice driving my HD600s.  I was all set on buying the Valhalla a few weeks back, but the deal of a lifetime for another amp fell into my lap, so the Valhalla has to wait.  I may still get it down the road to drive my HD600s and DT990s, though.  I like OTL amps.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I've never heard the HD800s, but I can confirm the Asgard sounds very nice driving my HD600s.  I was all set on buying the Valhalla a few weeks back, but the deal of a lifetime for another amp fell into my lap, so the Valhalla has to wait.  I may still get it down the road to drive my HD600s and DT990s, though.  I like OTL amps.


 


  I got to try the HD600 with the Schiit Valhalla a while back and it was a fabulous setup. Very fast and slightly treble happy.


----------



## hodgjy

I do enjoy treble as long as it's not ear piercing.  That is one of the flaws in my DT990s; these cans tend to sizzle too much at times, especially high hats.  That's where the HD600s are better, IMO.  Sometimes, the HD600s can be too polite to the cymbals, so perhaps the Valhalla would be an excellent mate.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thanks for your input!!  How about anyone tried Asgard with HD800? 
   
  Thanks


----------



## estreeter

I seem to recall that Schiit recommended that owners mount the Asgard vertically with plenty of ventilation either side to disperse heat, but every photo I see of Schiit gear has the amps mounted horizontally, often with another component mounted atop the amp - great for photos, but not the best for heat dispersion.


----------



## finkboy86

I got the Bifrost and Asgard powering my HE-500. I am very happy with them although i don't think Asgard is powering them as much as i would like. Still a good combo.


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I seem to recall that Schiit recommended that owners mount the Asgard vertically with plenty of ventilation either side to disperse heat, but every photo I see of Schiit gear has the amps mounted horizontally, often with another component mounted atop the amp - great for photos, but not the best for heat dispersion.


 


 Does heat really hurt these things though? If anything I leave them on for a few hours to let the sound settle in, and I always have done that with my guitar amps


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Thanks for your input!!  How about anyone tried Asgard with HD800?
> 
> Thanks


 


  I've heard that too. Not as technically capable as the Valhalla. Smoother, but with a much bigger soundstage than the Valhalla, and that's just in a nutshell. It depends on the type of music selection you are using.


----------



## gmahler2u

I'm listening Classical music (orchestral, symphony, concerto, and opera) and Jazz (Bill Evans...)
  Christian Rock music.  and other genre such as soundtrack and world music
  I guess Asgard will be the choice for me or no amp...
   
  Thank you


----------



## Llloyd

Had the asgard and the bifrost.  I sold my asgard because I had another amp in the price range which I preferred.  The asgard is very nice though.  I don't see myself upgrading from the bifrost for a while.  I think it's a really great source.
   
  I was using mostly HE-500 with the asgard, but I occasionally use grado sr80i, even though those are my travel phones for the most part.  Just using a little dot mkii for now until my decware amp comes in.  Thanks for making this thread.  Subbed~


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





finkboy86 said:


> I got the Bifrost and Asgard powering my HE-500. I am very happy with them although i don't think Asgard is powering them as much as i would like. Still a good combo.


 


  That's what my opinion was at first too.  It's not the low power that is making your he-500 sound like that.  Many amps in the range of 200-300 that I've tried actually sound similar regardless of power output.  I tried a number of different amps with different power levels and I was a little surprised with the he-500 how little difference the actual output makes.  With the asgard you get the bonus of it looking fantastic.  It has pretty nice staging qualities compared to a lot of amps in the price range as well.  I believe it was recommended for the he-500 in a headphonia review? out of the 3 schiit amps.


----------



## hodgjy

Class A amps run hot.  No real need to fear the heat.  Plus, Schiit gives you a 5 year warranty.  Use your amp without fear or reserve.  If it craps out, you're covered.  Plus, there's no way Jason and Mike would engineer something and then give it a 5 year warranty if it couldn't handle it.  They'd lose their arse if that were the case.
  
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> Does heat really hurt these things though? If anything I leave them on for a few hours to let the sound settle in, and I always have done that with my guitar amps


----------



## hodgjy

Orthos are definitely not as influenced by amp coloration as their dynamic counterparts.  As long as the amps give the orthos enough current, differences between the sounds among amps will be subtle.  If there isn't enough current, the sonics and damping break down, which will cause differences in sound.
  
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> That's what my opinion was at first too.  It's not the low power that is making your he-500 sound like that.  Many amps in the range of 200-300 that I've tried actually sound similar regardless of power output.  I tried a number of different amps with different power levels and I was a little surprised with the he-500 how little difference the actual output makes.  With the asgard you get the bonus of it looking fantastic.  It has pretty nice staging qualities compared to a lot of amps in the price range as well.  I believe it was recommended for the he-500 in a headphonia review? out of the 3 schiit amps.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Orthos are definitely not as influenced by amp coloration as their dynamic counterparts.  As long as the amps give the orthos enough current, differences between the sounds among amps will be subtle.  If there isn't enough current, the sonics and damping break down, which will cause differences in sound.


 


  I see.  Well that makes perfect sense then.


----------



## Misterrogers

I think you're sense is spot on. Of course, Lyr does a great job of lighting up my HE-500's. I'm writing a review on a Hybrid amp called 'Project Sunrise II' that'll post within the week. Fully built, it's about the cost of Asgard and does a fantastic job of drive the HE-500's. As a matter of fact, Project Sunrise II + Silver Dragon V3 + Siemens & Halske E188CC is sonic bliss.
  
  Quote: 





finkboy86 said:


> I got the Bifrost and Asgard powering my HE-500. I am very happy with them although i don't think Asgard is powering them as much as i would like. Still a good combo.


----------



## Chris_Himself

Oh trust me I fully intend on leaving it on for 5-6 hours at a time (those are how long my listening sessions are sometimes) while I build cables 
  
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Class A amps run hot.  No real need to fear the heat.  Plus, Schiit gives you a 5 year warranty.  Use your amp without fear or reserve.  If it craps out, you're covered.  Plus, there's no way Jason and Mike would engineer something and then give it a 5 year warranty if it couldn't handle it.  They'd lose their arse if that were the case.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Class A amps run hot.  No real need to fear the heat.  Plus, Schiit gives you a 5 year warranty.  Use your amp without fear or reserve.  If it craps out, you're covered.  Plus, there's no way Jason and Mike would engineer something and then give it a 5 year warranty if it couldn't handle it.  They'd lose their arse if that were the case.


 


  My initial comment re vertical placement was only prompted by earlier concerns about the heat generated by the Asgard. Schiit make a point of mentioning that their amps run hot by design - its hardly a new thing - but some still seem deterred by any mention of a 'hot' enclosure. Move to Maine or Tasmania and the heat would probably be welcome


----------



## tmthomure

Any point in "burning in" an amp?  I just got the Asgard and I heard it gets a lot better after about 100 hours.  So I have just been letting it run continuously for several hours while I'm not listening to it.  Plus my HD600s are new, so I'm burning them in as well.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





tmthomure said:


> Any point in "burning in" an amp?  I just got the Asgard and I heard it gets a lot better after about 100 hours.  So I have just been letting it run continuously for several hours while I'm not listening to it.  Plus my HD600s are new, so I'm burning them in as well.


 


  Yes.  Also sometimes it just takes getting used to the particular sound of one amp over another.  You have to burn your ears in   All I know is after a certain amount of time things sound different and usually better.


----------



## hodgjy

IMHO, burn in works on the both your brain and the gear.  There's truth to it.


----------



## Chris_Himself

Alright folks, it's picture time


----------



## hodgjy

I dig it!
  
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> Alright folks, it's picture time


----------



## gmahler2u

Nice Picture!


----------



## Sdmark

Another soon to be Schiitter here...my new Asgard should arrive Friday and I'll use it with my Audio GD NFB-2.1 dac and the first cans I'll try are going to be HD598's. Looking forward to them!


----------



## Cla55clown

Glad I found this thread. I'm looking for a suitable desktop amp to drive my Fostex T50RPs. Being that they're orthos, which Schiit model would you guys recommend? I know they are pretty efficient and not as hard to drive as some of the other popular orthos, but I still want to pair it properly with the right amp. So, solid state or tube? I also have the Ultrasone DJ1 but they will mostly be my travel/portable set that I'll use with my E10. Any ideas? Went to the Schiit website and I'm impressed with their offerings with the price/performance ratio that's hard to beat...gotta love the name too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 TIA


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





cla55clown said:


> Glad I found this thread. I'm looking for a suitable desktop amp to drive my Fostex T50RPs. Being that they're orthos, which Schiit model would you guys recommend? I know they are pretty efficient and not as hard to drive as some of the other popular orthos, but I still want to pair it properly with the right amp. So, solid state or tube? I also have the Ultrasone DJ1 but they will mostly be my travel/portable set that I'll use with my E10. Any ideas? Went to the Schiit website and I'm impressed with their offerings with the price/performance ratio that's hard to bear...gotta love the name too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No tubes. Either the Asgard or the Lyr. I've heard that the Lyr sounds great with the Thunderpants, so it should sound good, in theory, with the original Fosex T50RP.


----------



## GloryUprising

Valhalla owner here with my HD650, HD598, and HF2.  Lookin' to see what DAC comes next from Schiit, but I may spring for the bitfrost.


----------



## hodgjy

I just ordered myself some T50RPs since they're finally back in stock. I'll get them in a few days and plan on giving them a good workout. I'll report back during the weekend how they sound on the Asgard.



cla55clown said:


> Glad I found this thread. I'm looking for a suitable desktop amp to drive my Fostex T50RPs. Being that they're orthos, which Schiit model would you guys recommend? I know they are pretty efficient and not as hard to drive as some of the other popular orthos, but I still want to pair it properly with the right amp. So, solid state or tube? I also have the Ultrasone DJ1 but they will mostly be my travel/portable set that I'll use with my E10. Any ideas? Went to the Schiit website and I'm impressed with their offerings with the price/performance ratio that's hard to bear...gotta love the name too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> No tubes. Either the Asgard or the Lyr. I've heard that the Lyr sounds great with the Thunderpants, so it should sound good, in theory, with the original Fosex T50RP.


 


  'No tubes', followed by a recommendation for the* Lyr* ?? Am I missing something here ? Sure, its a hybrid, but those are tubes sticking out the top of the amp.


----------



## Koolpep

Not yet enough Schiit in my house:
   
  Valhalla and Asgard. Using the nuForce HDP as DAC and (surprisingly) a small Fiio D3 as DAC as well in the office.
  Home: nuforce icon HDP -> Asgard -> Sennheiser HD598, Denon AH-NC800 
  Office: Fiio D3 -> Valhalla -> Ultrasone Pro 750, Sennheiser HD 448, CX880, Superlux (various all incredible value for money!!) depending on my mood and hairstyle 
   
  Cheerio


----------



## Chris_Himself

The idea of the Bifrost is that you don't need to buy a new DAC, just buy their drop-in upgrade cards for both the USB and DAC parts. Just go ahead and buy it now haha
  
  Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Valhalla owner here with my HD650, HD598, and HF2.  Lookin' to see what DAC comes next from Schiit, but I may spring for the bitfrost.


----------



## Llloyd

The next DAC if I'm not mistaken will probably be pretty similar to the bifrost except balanced?  So unless you are interested in a balanced amp, the bifrost will probably be it.
   
  Edit:  Oh it's sort of announced.
   
   
   


> In a few days, I'll make an announcement about the "midrange" products, Mjolnir (balanced amp) and Gungnir (balanced DAC). Which really are end-game products. This announcement will give you plenty of information to chew on and decide if the products are for you, but there will be no pre-order. There'll be an interest list and an anticipated shipping date. Pre-orders will be open when all parts are at the board house for assembly, all final metal has been through QC, and we're ready to produce. This means there won't be delays, as there were with Bifrost.


----------



## sjay

Hi Guys
   
  after months of reading i have decided to try cans out to see if they tickle my ears and also fix the problem i have with my urge to listen to music late at night at loud volumes, i did try and find a second hand lyr but got impatient and ordered a new one this afternoon.
   
  i am excited to say the least and hope it lives up to my expectations


----------



## GloryUprising

llloyd said:


> The next DAC if I'm not mistaken will probably be pretty similar to the bifrost except balanced?  So unless you are interested in a balanced amp, the bifrost will probably be it.
> 
> Edit:  Oh it's sort of announced.



That's what I figured, for a dac, I want the option for balanced out to go into the future v200 amp I am planning on getting. I don't plan on getting too many dacs (unlike headphones and amps) so I want one that will grow with me as long as possible.


----------



## sonikbliss

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> That's what my opinion was at first too.  It's not the low power that is making your he-500 sound like that.  Many amps in the range of 200-300 that I've tried actually sound similar regardless of power output.  I tried a number of different amps with different power levels and I was a little surprised with the he-500 how little difference the actual output makes.  With the asgard you get the bonus of it looking fantastic.  It has pretty nice staging qualities compared to a lot of amps in the price range as well.  I believe it was recommended for the he-500 in a headphonia review? out of the 3 schiit amps.


 


  Interesting. I just got the he-500's and am sorting which amp is right. I have a Valhalla which sounds beautiful on my DT-990's but not so much with the Ortho's (as expected). What do you think is the magic pairing with the he-500's?


----------



## Chris_Himself

My stack of Schiit!


----------



## hodgjy

Very nice!
  
  Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> My stack of Schiit!


----------



## hodgjy

Amps have less effect on orthos than they do on dynamics provided they have enough current. I suggest looking into a solid state amp or an output transformer coupled amp so you can drive a range of other headphones in addition to the HE-500s.
  
  Quote: 





sonikbliss said:


> Interesting. I just got the he-500's and am sorting which amp is right. I have a Valhalla which sounds beautiful on my DT-990's but not so much with the Ortho's (as expected). What do you think is the magic pairing with the he-500's?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





sonikbliss said:


> Interesting. I just got the he-500's and am sorting which amp is right. I have a Valhalla which sounds beautiful on my DT-990's but not so much with the Ortho's (as expected). What do you think is the magic pairing with the he-500's?


 


  Frank and Baka1969 seem to both think that the CSP2+ preamp with the decware taboo are the magic pairing.  I recently put in an order for the taboo, but it's 3 months from being built or maybe less now but idk I'd rather not think about it.  Supposedly the Woo WA2 does nicely as well.  Other people have said the Vioelectric v200, burson ha160, schiit lyr, bottlehead sex, are all pretty nice as well.  I think the HE-500 is less particular about amps in general compared to some phones.  I doubt any one of those I listed would be a let down.  The Taboo just had the qualities I was looking for.


----------



## estreeter

@chris_himself, thats a lot of Schiit ! Do the neighbours complain about your Schiit late at night ? 'Turn that Schiit down !' would be my guess.


----------



## mbnt

llloyd said:


> Frank and Baka1969 seem to both think that the CSP2+ preamp with the decware taboo are the magic pairing.  I recently put in an order for the taboo, but it's 3 months from being built or maybe less now but idk I'd rather not think about it.  Supposedly the Woo WA2 does nicely as well.  Other people have said the Vioelectric v200, burson ha160, schiit lyr, bottlehead sex, are all pretty nice as well.  I think the HE-500 is less particular about amps in general compared to some phones.  I doubt any one of those I listed would be a let down.  The Taboo just had the qualities I was looking for.






matttcg said:


> I'm not an owner but looking to buy the Asgard. It seems to be very nice. I had the lyr for a short while and it ran very hot. Is that normal with this line?




Hi all…

I just recently bought the HE-500, Bifrost (No USB), and an Asgard.

Best investment ever.

I temporarily have the Schiit on a small table underneath my desk, and I can feel the Asgard's heat hardcore.

Class A amps are known to run hot. It's fine.

It's more than fine.


----------



## hodgjy

The Asgard is a very versatile amp.  Smooth sound.  Drives just about all headphones effortlessly.  I can't wait to try out my Fostex T50RPs that arrive tomorrow!
  
  Quote: 





mbnt said:


> Hi all…
> I just recently bought the HE-500, Bifrost (No USB), and an Asgard.


----------



## Cla55clown

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Asgard is a very versatile amp.  Smooth sound.  Drives just about all headphones effortlessly. * I can't wait to try out my Fostex T50RPs that arrive tomorrow*!


 


  I can't wait for you to as well! The Asgard/Bitfrost combo is looking pretty tempting, especially for performance you get for the price. Excellent value if you ask me. These niche components are intriguing but I can't get over the prices these things command. I checked out the 'best looking tube amp' thread and was blown away by what I saw, especially the asking prices 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. One quick question: If I have SP/DIF connector on my motherboard, and I get the Bitfrost without USB, if there ever a reason I would need the USB option in the future like connecting a different brand amp to the Bitfrost? I don't want to cripple myself for future upgrades by not getting the USB option on the DAC. Still trying to figure out all the connections/cabling and trying to do the research before I lay down the cash.


----------



## hodgjy

USB does allow for future flexibility if you ever get a new computer in the future.  But, as far as I understand it, you can buy the Bifrost now without USB, but then add it later when you need it.  I say go ahead and use the optical for now and enjoy it with no worries.  If you ever need USB in the future, you can add the USB feature later.
   
  USB or optical makes no difference to the amp you connect the Bifrost to.  The RCA outputs on the Bifrost will connect to the RCA inputs of any amp you choose.
  
  Quote: 





cla55clown said:


> One quick question: If I have SP/DIF connector on my motherboard, and I get the Bitfrost without USB, if there ever a reason I would need the USB option in the future like connecting a different brand amp to the Bitfrost? I don't want to cripple myself for future upgrades by not getting the USB option on the DAC. Still trying to figure out all the connections/cabling and trying to do the research before I lay down the cash.


----------



## sonikbliss

Well I decided on the Project Sunrise II for my HE-500's. 
   
  I seems like an amazing deal the money.
   
  The CSP2+ preamp with the declare taboo look amazing, but out of my price range, but I'd sure like to hear them.
   
  I'll let you know what I think of the PSII when I get it.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





sonikbliss said:


> Well I decided on the Project Sunrise II for my HE-500's.
> 
> I seems like an amazing deal the money.
> 
> ...


 


  cool.  can't wait to hear your impression.


----------



## hodgjy

Update for this mini discussion.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/452404/just-listened-to-some-fostex-t50rps-today-wow/7170#post_8245544
   
  Quote:


hodgjy said:


> The Asgard is a very versatile amp.  Smooth sound.  Drives just about all headphones effortlessly.  I can't wait to try out my Fostex T50RPs that arrive tomorrow!


 
  Quote:


cla55clown said:


> I can't wait for you to as well! The Asgard/Bitfrost combo is looking pretty tempting, especially for performance you get for the price. Excellent value if you ask me. These niche components are intriguing but I can't get over the prices these things command. I checked out the 'best looking tube amp' thread and was blown away by what I saw, especially the asking prices
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gmahler2u

finally i'll be proud owner of SCHIIT! soon...thanks everyone!!


----------



## Chris_Himself

I went from Gold Lion E88CC's to some (illegible) USSR 6H23N-EB's...
   
  Sounds like a completely different amp... holy **** tube rolling is gonna be fun, I need to order some Mullards to see what the fuss is about. Oh lawds I should have gone tube a long long time ago. Apparently no biasing is needed on 6922 pattern tubes 
   
  AWWW YEA.


----------



## Bas72

The full story: I was in the HiFiMAN HE-400 preorder batch, but unfortunately mine also suffered from the failing driver issue, so I returned it and went for the HE-500 - since I was in the HE-400 preorder batch I could buy it at a discount. I must be out of luck, as the HE-500 arrived with a cracked cup... but HiFiMAN immediately shipped a replacement cup, so kudos to them! Anyways: I quickly found out that the Headstage Arrow amp that I use, coupled with my iPod, does not deliver enough juice to drive the HE-500s: sound was dull, no dynamics, boring. So I set out for a desktop amp and quickly settled for the Asgard/Bifrost combo. I've had it for two days now, and I'm happy that I upgraded to the HE-500s again: without them, I would never have met the Asgard and the Bifrost! One happy customer - sound is exciting again, full bodied, dynamic, with plenty of bass and treble extension. Woohoo!


----------



## Raser

Got my Asgard couple of days ago. It is a very nice machine and it really doesnt sound a 250 dollar amp. Probably going to get the Bifrost and Lyr in the near future  and really looking forward their new gadgets.


----------



## gmahler2u

I can't wait for my Asgard!!


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I can't wait for my Asgard!!


 


  What DAC/source and headphone are you going to be pairing the Asgard with?


----------



## hodgjy

As much as I love my Asgard, I think I finally found a set of cans it doesn't drive particularly well: the Fostex T50RP.  There is a certain level of "honk" that won't go away with modding the cups or eq'ing out.  I can only speculate that it comes from damping because when I drive the Fostex with my Yamaha receiver, some of the honk goes away.  The Asgard is still a nice pairing with the Fostex after modding and eq'ing, but it's not a good pairing with the stock Fostex, IMHO.
   
  Edit: here's a post with some info on my latest setup regarding the Asgard and Fostex http://www.head-fi.org/t/529140/show-us-your-head-fi-station-at-its-current-state-no-old-pictures-please/5070#post_8250524


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> What DAC/source and headphone are you going to be pairing the Asgard with?


 


  so far I have HRT musicsteamer II+, maybe later i'll upgrade.


----------



## hodgjy

Honestly, unless you want to spend upwards of $1000, you'd be hard pressed to notice many improvements over the HRT II+ with other DACs.  That is one smoking DAC regardless of its price.
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> so far I have HRT musicsteamer II+, maybe later i'll upgrade.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Honestly, unless you want to spend upwards of $1000, you'd be hard pressed to notice many improvements over the HRT II+ with other DACs.  That is one smoking DAC regardless of its price.


 


  Yes I do agree with you...headphone system is first for me...with my speakers and HRT are really shine!! love this small dac.


----------



## timeslip

Just out of curiosity, why so many Asgard & Bitfrost combos instead of Lyr & Bitfrost?  Is it bang for buck?  
   
  How much difference do you guys think it would be between the two combos to power an HE-500?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





timeslip said:


> Just out of curiosity, why so many Asgard & Bitfrost combos instead of Lyr & Bitfrost?  Is it bang for buck?
> 
> How much difference do you guys think it would be between the two combos to power an HE-500?


 


  Most people say the Lyr is a pretty big difference with both the he-500 and the lcd, like a nice improvement over the asgard.  My asgard did nothing special with the HE-500.  It gave them enough power yes, but I felt it was somewhat lacking in dynamics while having a decent soundstage.  It had a very smooth sound.  One you'd expect from a solid state.  Somewhat sterile compared to my LD.  The asgard is not a bad deal, but I feel it hit around average for its price.  Many others, however, have been enjoying it


----------



## eddiek997

I noticed a significant difference when I went from the Asgard to the Lyr and rolled in some decent tubes. With the HE500's the difference was definitely enough to justify the price of the Lyr.
   
  I'm one of these who gets buyers remorse - but not this time. The Lyr is well worth every penny.


----------



## thecourier

Guys i've been interested on the Bitfrost dac. Is there a comparison against similar priced dacs on the market?


----------



## hodgjy

This comparison is excellent, although the prices aren't similar. It's a good read. I've always thought that the differences between properly implemented and well designed DACs are subtle.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/580622/schiit-bifrost-vs-eastern-electric-minimax-dac-and-meier-corda-stagedac



thecourier said:


> Guys i've been interested on the Bitfrost dac. Is there a comparison against similar priced dacs on the market?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> This comparison is excellent, although the prices aren't similar. It's a good read. I've always thought that the differences between properly implemented and well designed DACs are subtle.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/580622/schiit-bifrost-vs-eastern-electric-minimax-dac-and-meier-corda-stagedac


 


  +1


----------



## hodgjy

Tonight, I picked up the Koss Pro DJ100. These sound phenomenal on the Asgard. This is a good pairing that I highly recommend if people are looking for a nice setup under $325-350.


----------



## gmahler2u

I received the Asgard but unfortunately it was broken when I got it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  So I'm sending it back to the owner.
  I got the used Asgard, but just not my day!


----------



## hodgjy

Sorry to hear that. . What was broken on it?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  The power won't turn on, no sound, no LED light...nothing........just enjoyed the silence.......with my HD 800...


----------



## Erikesp

I am new to this community but have been learning everything I can.  I just picked up my first pair of good HeadPhones and am looking for an amp and dac.  (GRado RS-1 btw)  I thought maybe that I wanted a rig for both home and portable and am very close to pulling the trigger on the Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo and Ray Samuels SR-71B.  Now having learned about the Schiit line I am thinking I could save myself some money on the components and use it to buy other headphones that I want.  I know I will lose the portability.  Do you all think the Schiit pieces will pair well with the Grado RS-1's?  Thanks


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> The power won't turn on, no sound, no LED light...nothing........just enjoyed the silence.......with my HD 800...


 
   
  Are you going to get it exchanged? The Asgard/HD800 is a fine combo (see my sig).


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





imperialx said:


> Are you going to get it exchanged? The Asgard/HD800 is a fine combo (see my sig).


 

 yes, i'll exchange soon.


----------



## hodgjy

Sounds like it may be a blown fuse. May be an easy fix.



gmahler2u said:


> The power won't turn on, no sound, no LED light...nothing........just enjoyed the silence.......with my HD 800...


----------



## fenderf4i

erikesp said:


> I am new to this community but have been learning everything I can.  I just picked up my first pair of good HeadPhones and am looking for an amp and dac.  (GRado RS-1 btw)  I thought maybe that I wanted a rig for both home and portable and am very close to pulling the trigger on the Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo and Ray Samuels SR-71B.  Now having learned about the Schiit line I am thinking I could save myself some money on the components and use it to buy other headphones that I want.  I know I will lose the portability.  Do you all think the Schiit pieces will pair well with the Grado RS-1's?  Thanks





The Asgard is supposedly the best fit for the Grado's. I have one on the way to try with my PS500's.


----------



## Webcredo

I am using Schiit Asgard Amp with a Schiit Biforst dac feed with a Denon dvd-2930ci. My headphones are Grado PS 500 and I love the combination. With the 500's i can hear the difference just by changing out sources, and changing dacs. For the Price the Schiit Line works great with the Grados. This frees up my Bel Canto Dac 3.5vb for my main audio system (Summit X's) and lets me use my Esoteric sa60 and Lexcion rt20 in my dali Helicon 400's.
   
  I was originally using a denon dvd-3930ci as my source to the Asgard and loved the combo, nice seperation and all. Then i started playing with dacs and comparing them to straight sources. I am extremely happy with the soundstage the Biforst gives with the Asgard amp and dvd-2930ci as source. Its actually better than using the 3930ci straight to amp. Musics more layered, wider soundstage! When I first plugged in the Biforst I could tell it was sweet, but with no run in the bass was all muddy(Boomy), but the soundstage was vastly improved. After 48 hours of straight music playing thru system everything came together and I have been thrilled with it since. Vocals are amazing on the 500's and i really like Acoustic music thru them. Strunz and Farah, and Armik have never sounded better. Heck even Mars lasar, Underworld, Arkenstones, Paul Oakenfold sound great. My favorites has to be female vocals, check out Lovespirals and Karmacoda. One cd that caught me by surprise is Madonnas Ray of light, wonderful, well layered, wide soundstage, 3d effects!
   
  Is it as good as my Martin Logan Summit X system, nope, but for headphones I am extremely happy. So happy I am considering buying Grado Ps1000's next.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> yes, i'll exchange soon.


 


  5 year warranty for the win.


----------



## Zephoku

I am a new owner of a Bifrost -> Valhalla -> Beyer DT990/600ohm and I'm loving it.
  I feel like I can call myself an audiophile now!
   
  Not much love for the Valhalla in this thread?


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet.  I love how my 990s sound on my Asgard, which is voiced similarly to the Valhalla. 
  
  Quote: 





zephoku said:


> I am a new owner of a Bifrost -> Valhalla -> Beyer DT990/600ohm and I'm loving it.
> I feel like I can call myself an audiophile now!
> 
> Not much love for the Valhalla in this thread?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





zephoku said:


> I am a new owner of a Bifrost -> Valhalla -> Beyer DT990/600ohm and I'm loving it.
> I feel like I can call myself an audiophile now!
> 
> Not much love for the Valhalla in this thread?


 


  Post some pictures of this setup, please? I'd love to see what the Bifrost looks like with the Valhalla!


----------



## wberghofer

austin morrow said:


> Post some pictures of this setup, please? I'd love to see what the Bifrost looks like with the Valhalla!



Here you are:






Werner.


----------



## Raptor34

I just got my Bifrost a few weeks ago and teamed it with my Valhalla.  Here's a shot of them with my two most favorite cans.  The HD650 being top dog.  The Bifrost and Valhalla combination make both cans sing like never before.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    I know, tacky source indicator light covers on the Bifrost  but those led's are just too bright.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





zephoku said:


> I am a new owner of a Bifrost -> Valhalla -> Beyer DT990/600ohm and I'm loving it.
> I feel like I can call myself an audiophile now!
> 
> Not much love for the Valhalla in this thread?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

We're now Neck Deep in Schiit!
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/603160/neck-deep-in-schiit-gungir-balanced-dac-and-mjolnir-balanced-amp-announced


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> We're now Neck Deep in Schiit!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/603160/neck-deep-in-schiit-gungir-balanced-dac-and-mjolnir-balanced-amp-announced


 


  Jason, do those amps haves the same vertical height as your other amps, just longer horizontally?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Jason, do those amps haves the same vertical height as your other amps, just longer horizontally?


 


  They're a lot bigger in width and depth, but the height is the same.
   
  Statement stuff will be a lot deeper. And taller.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm pretty stoked about the new Schiit, especially some statement Schiit.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> They're a lot bigger in width and depth, but the height is the same.
> 
> Statement stuff will be a lot deeper. And taller.


 

 Alright, very cool. One last question (not too get more detail, but I'm really interested), how heavy are these two new products in comparison to the other ones that you currently have?


----------



## claybum

The weight of each schiit product is listed on their website.
  Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> Alright, very cool. One last question (not too get more detail, but I'm really interested), how heavy are these two new products in comparison to the other ones that you currently have?


----------



## timeslip

I just got my Lyr / Bitfrost combo in the mail, and hooked it up.  The Lyr runs pretty hot.  Should I be worried about stacking it on top of the bitfrost, which covers the air vents?


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





timeslip said:


> I just got my Lyr / Bitfrost combo in the mail, and hooked it up.  The Lyr runs pretty hot.  Should I be worried about stacking it on top of the bitfrost, which covers the air vents?


 

 It's OK, just don't cover the Lyr.


----------



## estreeter

I love this section of the Asgard FAQ, but I seem to be the only one who has read it .....
   
   
 *You know, Asgard runs really hot?*
 You know, Asgard’s chassis is its heat-sink, and that it is a Class-A amplifier? Yep, it runs hot.

 *Like, very hot?*
 Like, very hot. It’s OK. We’re well within the limits of the output devices. Remember, there’s a 5-year warranty on our products. We have to be damn certain they’ll survive.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I love this section of the Asgard FAQ, but I seem to be the only one who has read it .....
> 
> 
> *You know, Asgard runs really hot?*
> ...


 

 I've read them all through, they make me laugh every time. Especially the Gungnir one.


----------



## Chris_Himself

I don't think the airvents on the Bifrost are actually real.. too lazy to lift the Lyr to check haha

  
  Quote: 





timeslip said:


> I just got my Lyr / Bitfrost combo in the mail, and hooked it up.  The Lyr runs pretty hot.  Should I be worried about stacking it on top of the bitfrost, which covers the air vents?


----------



## Llloyd

You don't have to worry about stacking.  Bifrost will do fine on the bottom.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I love this section of the Asgard FAQ, but I seem to be the only one who has read it .....


 

  I've read it. Otherwise I would have returned the Asgard by now. It's SERIOUSLY hot.


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> I don't think the airvents on the Bifrost are actually real.. too lazy to lift the Lyr to check haha


 

 This is covered in the Bifrost manual.
  "*How Come These Vents Don't Go Through?*
  Hey you try getting FCC-friendly radiated noise on a DAC that has vents in the cover. Go ahead, try. But hey, they look cool, right?"
   
  LOL


----------



## Raser

Quote: 





imperialx said:


> I've read it. Otherwise I would have returned the Asgard by now. It's SERIOUSLY hot.


 


  Imo the heat from Asgard is nothing. Couple of my tube amps run much much hotter. And they are still alive and kicking


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





raser said:


> Imo the heat from Asgard is nothing. Couple of my tube amps run much much hotter. And they are still alive and kicking


 
   
  Wow, really? If the Asgard gets any hotter I'll have problems adjusting the volume!


----------



## estreeter

Check the box your amp came in - there should be a pair of *oven mitts* in the bottom.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *estreeter* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> there should be a pair of *oven mitts* in the bottom.


 
   
  I didn't get one! Gasp!


----------



## PeachesNCream

Hey all, don't know if this is the place to be asking but here goes anyways. I just got my Lyr in the mail a few days ago, and Regardless of the cans I plug into it, I hear this high pitched background noise that's like an echo of fingers brushing on the aluminum chassis. I can't EQ it out either. Is there something wrong with the amp or does it have to do with my cans?
   
  Cheers,


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Hey all, don't know if this is the place to be asking but here goes anyways. I just got my Lyr in the mail a few days ago, and Regardless of the cans I plug into it, I hear this high pitched background noise that's like an echo of fingers brushing on the aluminum chassis. I can't EQ it out either. Is there something wrong with the amp or does it have to do with my cans?
> 
> Cheers,


 


  Wiggle the tubes, if you get any sort of noise that you can hear through the cans, you might want to try swapping the tubes around, or reseating them. I had the same issue. 
   
  I can wiggle my tubes around without any noise though, so it might be a bad one.. the rest of the amp is built pretty solid and I deduced at the time that anything weird would be related to the tubes.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Hey all, don't know if this is the place to be asking but here goes anyways. I just got my Lyr in the mail a few days ago, and Regardless of the cans I plug into it, I hear this high pitched background noise that's like an echo of fingers brushing on the aluminum chassis. I can't EQ it out either. Is there something wrong with the amp or does it have to do with my cans?


 

 Lyr is for high impedance phones. What are you plugging into them?


----------



## Mauricio

Are any of the Schitt (Lyr, Valhalla or Asgard) "Burson killers"?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





mauricio said:


> Are any of the Schitt (Lyr, Valhalla or Asgard) "Burson killers"?


 


  Have the Valhalla, auditioned the Lyr and the Asgard. Nope, not "Burson Killers" at all. Are you talking about the HA-160? Which model?


----------



## Mauricio

Yes, the Burson HD-160.


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





imperialx said:


> Lyr is for high impedance phones. What are you plugging into them?


 


  Well aware of this. I have tried some very low (Denons) and some moderate (DT770s) and it still persists.
  I'll try reseating the tubes.
   
  Resat the tubes, noise still persists. I think I'm going to send it back and get an Asgard instead.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## Misterrogers

Contact Jason/Schiit and tell them your tubes are likely bad. I would try another set of tubes before swapping for an asgard. Asgard's a good amp (used one for a year), but unless you have your eye on low impedance headphones, Lyr can do so much more with medium and high impedance headphones - and hard to drive orthos. You're likely dealing with a bad tube. If it proves not to be a tube, Schiit will swap your amp quickly.
  
  Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Well aware of this. I have tried some very low (Denons) and some moderate (DT770s) and it still persists.
> I'll try reseating the tubes.
> 
> Resat the tubes, noise still persists. I think I'm going to send it back and get an Asgard instead.
> ...


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





mauricio said:


> Yes, the Burson HD-160.


 


  No, not a Burson Killer. Rather, a Burson competitor.


----------



## Mauricio

To be honest, though Schiit has piqued my interest with their no-nonsense designs and apparent good value, so far I have not yet found, for my aims and needs, a Schiit product that I would purchase.  What they need to do is to scale up the Asgard to go head to head with the Burson.  If you haven't noticed there really aren't a lot of fully discrete, pure class A amps under $700.


----------



## hodgjy

Do Ford cars compete with Ferrari cars?  Different products for different markets.  Same with Schiit vs. other brands.  Schiit started out as an entry-level company to build a base.  Now, they are expanding.
   
  Also, if you read the press release, Schiit is releasing higher end products very shortly.
   
  Finally, this is a SCHIIT OWNERS THREAD.  If you don't own some Schiit, don't come in here and tell us how you don't like our Schiit.  We happen to like our Schiit.  Your thread pooping (Schiit jokes are too easy) is not appreciated.
  
  Quote: 





mauricio said:


> To be honest, though Schiit has piqued my interest with their no-nonsense designs and apparent good value, so far I have not yet found, for my aims and needs, a Schiit product that I would purchase.  What they need to do is to scale up the Asgard to go head to head with the Burson.  If you haven't noticed there really aren't a lot of fully discrete, pure class A amps under $700.


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Contact Jason/Schiit and tell them your tubes are likely bad. I would try another set of tubes before swapping for an asgard. Asgard's a good amp (used one for a year), but unless you have your eye on low impedance headphones, Lyr can do so much more with medium and high impedance headphones - and hard to drive orthos. You're likely dealing with a bad tube. If it proves not to be a tube, Schiit will swap your amp quickly.


 

 Thanks I'll email them tonight.
   
  Cheers,
   
  EDIT:
  Jason responded and is shipping me a new set of tubes, as he concurred they are defective. Thank you all for the help! Hopefully my Lyr will sound the way it should, and thanks to Schiit for being very responsive to my requests! (I even got an email at about 12:15am!)


----------



## Chris_Himself

Quote: 





imperialx said:


> Lyr is for high impedance phones. What are you plugging into them?


 

 HE-5LE
  HE-500
  LCD-2
   
  all of those excel on the Lyr and are low impedance
   

  
  Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Well aware of this. I have tried some very low (Denons) and some moderate (DT770s) and it still persists.
> I'll try reseating the tubes.
> 
> Resat the tubes, noise still persists. I think I'm going to send it back and get an Asgard instead.
> ...


 

  
  Err, I'd buy new tubes on their dime before I send the amp back. It's really quite lovely once you get it situated.
   
  Trust me, my amp came from someone in Pennysylvania and it must have been pretty shooken up cuz I lost a tube that way too, it was all hissy like 40% into the volume knob. I posted about it earlier.
   
  It's a Class A amp, so it should be virtually silent when working properly.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Well aware of this. I have tried some very low (Denons) and some moderate (DT770s) and it still persists.
> I'll try reseating the tubes.
> 
> Resat the tubes, noise still persists. I think I'm going to send it back and get an Asgard instead.
> ...


 

 Maybe it's bad tubes? But yeah, have a try with the Asgard.


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





chris_himself said:


> HE-5LE
> HE-500
> LCD-2
> 
> ...


 

 Output Impedance of the Lyr is 6 ohms. On anything less than 50 Ohm input impedance headphones you're going to hear some noise. I don't mind if it's quiet, but the loud ringing that I was getting from my Lyr was ridiculous. Jason responded to my emails and is sending me a new set of tubes. I will update upon getting them. Thanks for all the help guys in diagnosing this problem!
   
  Cheers,
   
  Edit: Strikethrough


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Actually, output impedance of the Lyr is less than 1 ohm, and it's fine with low-impedance headphones--it just may not be suitable for high-efficiency ones, like the Denon D2000/5000/7000 series.


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Actually, output impedance of the Lyr is less than 1 ohm, and it's fine with low-impedance headphones--it just may not be suitable for high-efficiency ones, like the Denon D2000/5000/7000 series.


 


  Jason,
   
       I could have sworn my documentation at home on the Lyr showed an output impedance of 6 ohms. However it looks like I stand corrected. I will update this evening.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## gmahler2u

does anyone has free schiit to pass it to me?


----------



## clarknova

Just got a Valhalla today to go with my HD650's , DT 880 600 Ohm cans. I just turned it on and that warm glow is somehow strange but comforting. Its early to really judge sound until a good 20 hours has passed of run time. But I hear constantly that the Valhalla is the amp to get with HD650's in its price range.
   
  I somehow thought the tubes would be brighter , instead they are a bit dim.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> Just got a Valhalla today to go with my HD650's , DT 880 600 Ohm cans. I just turned it on and that warm glow is somehow strange but comforting. Its early to really judge sound until a good 20 hours has passed of run time. But I hear constantly that the Valhalla is the amp to get with HD650's in its price range.
> 
> I somehow thought the tubes would be brighter , instead they are a bit dim.


 


  The Valhalla tubes are a bit dim. People like to enhance the contrast so that the tubes glow like mad. Anyway, you'll find that the Valhalla makes the HD650 a bit more treble happy, as I've found. Have fun listening!


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> The Valhalla tubes are a bit dim. People like to enhance the contrast so that the tubes glow like mad. Anyway, you'll find that the Valhalla makes the HD650 a bit more treble happy, as I've found. Have fun listening!


 


  I can't wait to hear them after 20+ hours. Right now they sound pretty great but I know over time they will sound even better. Treble wouldn't be a bad addition to the HD650 , I notice the bass is tightened up a bit more but not as strong. I take it there is no tube rolling with the Valhalla?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> I can't wait to hear them after 20+ hours. Right now they sound pretty great but I know over time they will sound even better. Treble wouldn't be a bad addition to the HD650 , I notice the bass is tightened up a bit more but not as strong. I take it there is no tube rolling with the Valhalla?


 


  Nope, no tube rolling. Yes, the bass does tighten up and has a bit better transient response with the Valhalla. Still the same amount of slam and surge, though.


----------



## M-13

Just found this thread. And learned something new too. Lyr output = less than 1 ohm. Neat.


----------



## ImperialX

So  right now I'm looking at the LCD-2. I've heard the the Lyr does a decent job driving it, but what about the Asgard that I currently use with my HD800? It drives the HD800 fine but not sure about the LCD-2.


----------



## clarknova

I've read many sources that say the Asgard can drive Planar Magnetic just fine.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> I've read many sources that say the Asgard can drive Planar Magnetic just fine.


 

 Yeah, I heard that too, but I wonder if there's anyone here with a Asgard/LCD-2 combo who has some impressions?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote:


clarknova said:


> I've read many sources that say the Asgard can drive Planar Magnetic just fine.


 


  I had an Asgard with HE-500.  It can drive them yes, but what I found out was that many amps with less output and in the same price range can drive the phones just as well.  People overstate how hard it is to make them sound really good in terms of the power they need, probably because of many of the other HE series' power needs.  Maybe there's a little more headroom with the Asgard compared to others.  I'm talking like 10 to 9oclock on a 1W vs a 300mw amp.  So volume is not an issue if that's what you're wondering.  It is what I would expect out of an amp its price so, in that sense, it gets the job done.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I had an Asgard with HE-500.  It can drive them yes, but what I found out was that many amps with less output and in the same price range can drive the phones just as well.  People overstate how hard it is to make them sound really good in terms of the power they need, probably because of many of the other HE series' power needs.  Maybe there's a little more headroom with the Asgard compared to others.  I'm talking like 10 to 9oclock on a 1W vs a 300mw amp.  So volume is not an issue if that's what you're wondering.  It is what I would expect out of an amp its price so, in that sense, it gets the job done.


 


  I think I agree with you on that as well. The planers don't scale up as well, in another sense. And while the HE-500 can be driven to great levels in terms of gain, it's the sonics capabilities that beg to differ.


----------



## gmahler2u

Every time I order from Schiit always back order......lovely...


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Every time I order from Schiit always back order......lovely...


 


  Dude seriously? 
   
   
  For the Asgard :


> *STATUS: Backordered We anticipate shipping by April 6, 2012 for orders placed now.*


 
  For the Biforst :
   


> *STATUS: In stock. Current non-USB orders ship in 24-48 hours. There will be a small delay (expected to April 11) in shipping new USB-equipped Bifrosts.*


 
   
   
   
  Wow , looks like you have a long wait.


----------



## clarknova

While I'm here being sarcastic , what does everyone think of the Bifrost? I decided to cancel the my order of an ASUS ST and my question is that I have on-board optical output on my PC and is there any difference between using USB versus Optical as transport? 
   
  I ask because I want to get the Bifrost but I'm thinking perhaps I can save a bit of money and just opt out of the USB version and use my optical out as a transport.


----------



## fenderf4i

I'm curious about the optical out as well, in particular from a newer iMac. Would I be best off adding the USB input just to have the option?
   
  Also, I just received an Asgard. It's my first decent amp, and it sounds great so far!


----------



## telecaster

Search for asynchronous USB to spdif.


----------



## sjay

got my lry last week and got my akg 701's this week, got 30 hours or so on the tubes and cans and they are starting to sound quite nice.
   
   
  i was not very impressed at first but its starting to grow on me. detail is good, very good, bass is not bad...seems to favour some music over others thus far.....nfi what tubes i am running but i am waiting on more so i will see how it goes.
   
  all good thus far.
   
   
   
  happy easter guys and gals!


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> I'm curious about the optical out as well, in particular from a newer iMac. Would I be best off adding the USB input just to have the option?
> 
> Also, I just received an Asgard. It's my first decent amp, and it sounds great so far!


 


  Well after researching it seems that it doesn't really matter. Here is a quote :
   
   
   


> _"...Yet it matters very much WHERE that jitter is. It is only important to have the low jitter AT THE CONVERTER, right where the digital is converted to analog. That is the "conversion jitter" and that is the jitter that matters. Moving data around can tolerate 100 times the jitter level with no sonic impact. We call that "data transfer jitter". If we have say huge jitter on say the spdif cable, but we get to "clean it" before it gets to the critical circuitry, then we are doing fine..."_


 
   
  After reading that big thread , I think I'll just go with the cheaper Bifrost. 
   
  Here is the thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/493152/low-jitter-usb-dan-lavry-michael-goodman-adaptive-asynchronous


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





sjay said:


> got my lry last week and got my akg 701's this week, got 30 hours or so on the tubes and cans and they are starting to sound quite nice.
> 
> 
> i was not very impressed at first but its starting to grow on me. detail is good, very good, bass is not bad...seems to favour some music over others thus far.....nfi what tubes i am running but i am waiting on more so i will see how it goes.
> ...


 

 You should seriously consider tube rolling with the Lyr. And there is a nice giant thread for the Lyr actually : http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## fenderf4i

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> Well after researching it seems that it doesn't really matter. Here is a quote :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Thanks for checking into that! My next purchase will definitely be a Bifrost.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> Dude seriously?
> 
> 
> For the Asgard :
> ...


 

 Thanks..


----------



## Maxvla

gmahler2u said:


> Thanks..




At least Schiit updates their pages like that. Most audio companies never touch their pages and when you order into a back-order situation they just never tell you and it comes when it comes.


----------



## sjay

Quote: 





clarknova said:


> You should seriously consider tube rolling with the Lyr. And there is a nice giant thread for the Lyr actually : http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


 
   
   
  I have been working my way through that thread for a few weeks now thanks , its where i found the extra tubes i ordered 
   
  i am feeding mine via a squeezebox touch >> coax >> audio-gd nfb2 >> lyr >> 701"s, cant wait to do some rolling 
   
   
  that said, i do like the extra detail that cans give you , it really suits certain styles of music that i like such as hip hop and pink floyd......but i need to keep pumping my 701's non stop for another week or so yet, then i will see how they sound.
   
  wish me luck


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> I'm curious about the optical out as well, in particular from a newer iMac. Would I be best off adding the USB input just to have the option?
> 
> Also, I just received an Asgard. It's my first decent amp, and it sounds great so far!


 


  The Bifrost is a fine dac imo. I've mainly used usb but I've found optical to sound better out of my new MBP. It's subtle but I hear better clarity and it seems less flat in terms of dynamics. Unfortunately the Bifrost has a tendency to lose sync mid song via optical, resulting in skips and non stop clicking from the dac itself. I'm hoping it's the generic 2m toslink to mini toslink cable I have and will be ordering a shorter Siflex glass cable to test.


----------



## telecaster

Don't understand how you would not consider jitter artifacts a problem when the whole article you pointed out was making the apology of the 400 dollars USB anti jitter converter the dacport, which is too expensive old tech and arrogant.
   
  This post you are refering us to is an ugly voodoo claim advertisement post.
   
  The guy who sells it says that his old usb digital out is licensed to some other company and it's ok because he doesn't believe in asynchronous, and then he cannot even justify how he clean up the jitter with his magic box...
   
  If you never hear asynchronous, give it a try.
   
  You could do way better with asynchronous usb to spdif converter and your dac of choice, no need to stick with the smd surface miracle claim dacport!
  
  Claiming that it can clean up all the jitter is uber scandalous!
   
  Quote: 





clarknova said:


> Well after researching it seems that it doesn't really matter. Here is a quote :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## clarknova

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> Don't understand how you would not consider jitter artifacts a problem when the whole article you pointed out was making the apology of the 400 dollars USB anti jitter converter.


 


  But there was a point to be made along the way. Ultimately its down to how the DAC handles its business. And based off what I've read across the net the difference is again minimal at best. Latency is a concern with USB usage but with optical it ends up coming down to how the DAC internally processes that information. This is just my personal opinion of course.

 My final conclusion is that USB allows for more connectivity options and that's not a bad thing but optical being used as a transport is also an excellent option and is $100 less. I don't really care for ASIO or WASAPI as I can not really hear much of a difference to justify USB only usage.  Not to mention if I feel later on that I was wrong in my assumption I can send it into Schiit and have the USB board installed for $150. So all I've lost is $50 and a bit of time. 
   
  I've got a crappy (but surprisingly not all that bad) DAC on the cheap that can output 192/24-bit with very low jitter (Fiio D3) via optical to rca. I'm pretty sure I'll be just fine with the Bifrost sans the USB.


----------



## wberghofer

fenderf4i said:


> I'm curious about the optical out as well, in particular from a newer iMac


 
   
  Optical out from a newer iMac works very fine, while USB connections to the Bifrost cause problems, at least if the iMac is running Mac OS X Lion. I use a 27" mid 2011 iMac with Mac OS X version 10.7.3.
   
  See → this thread for more details in case you’re interested.
   
  Werner.


----------



## telecaster

.


----------



## fenderf4i

Thanks, that is what I was looking for . I was under the impression that there were more problems with optical than USB, it looks like that's not the case!
   
   
  Quote: 





wberghofer said:


> Optical out from a newer iMac works very fine, while USB connections to the Bifrost cause problems, at least if the iMac is running Mac OS X Lion. I use a 27" mid 2011 iMac with Mac OS X version 10.7.3.
> 
> See → this thread for more details in case you’re interested.
> 
> Werner.


----------



## dillydally

Hi, can someone tell me how long the RCA to 3.5mm cable that comes with Schiit amps are? Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

I don't think they are included anymore.  I didn't get one with mine, as did many others not get one, either.
  
  Quote: 





dillydally said:


> Hi, can someone tell me how long the RCA to 3.5mm cable that comes with Schiit amps are? Thanks


----------



## Raser

hodgjy said:


> I don't think they are included anymore.  I didn't get one with mine, as did many others not get one, either.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 yep didnt get one either. It was while back when they stopped shipping with that wire


----------



## Hyperpolice

I got a Schiit Asgard and Bifrost USB on my desk and are very happy with them both. I am Also planning on getting the Valhalla and Lyr as well during the summer.


----------



## ibage

Quote: 





raser said:


> yep didnt get one either. It was while back when they stopped shipping with that wire


 


  Same though I got my Asgard back in January so it wasn't long ago.
   
  In any case, figured this is a good place to ask. I got the Asgard to pair up with my HD600 and as it stands, I love the chemistry there. However, I've been rather curious, how do Beyers sound out of the Asgard? I've heard mixed things from people but I haven't actually heard from someone who actually owns an Asgard. Anyone have experience here?


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





hyperpolice said:


> I got a Schiit Asgard and Bifrost USB on my desk and are very happy with them both. I am Also planning on getting the Valhalla and Lyr as well during the summer.


 


  What headphones are you using with that setup you have going on there?


----------



## Hyperpolice

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> What headphones are you using with that setup you have going on there?


 
   
  I got the Bifrost hooked up to my desktop to play FLAC files, and I'm currently using AKG 271 MKII and Audio Technica ATH-M50.
  I am currently looking for a good open headphone as well, perhaps AKG Q701 or some Grado SR325i. I hear Grados are supposed to be a good match with the Asgard.


----------



## Jgonzalez

Hello guys, new in here.  I just received my new Valhalla a couple of weeks ago and after 20 hrs or so of burning I'm sure to say I'm rediscovering music!  My HD650s pair beautifully with the Val.  The soundstage of the HD650s is greatly improved, these cans aren't recognized for a large soundstage...  I had a E7+E9 combo and worked fine but sound was a bit too dry and bright, specially for classical (what I mainly listen to).  I will son buy the Bifrost, meanwhile I'm using the Fiio combo as a DAC, and it works fine, really fine,  anyway most of my music is CD format and I use the DAC just from time to time.


----------



## AppleDappleman

How much heat comes from the asgard/lyr? Just preparing for the future when I buy all the things and figured it would be easier to get the asgard unless any news on the Fiio E19 comes out.

 I'm asking because i'm curious about stacking the bitfrost/asgard/lyr together. They would be seperated by tall isolation cones. It would look like this below:

 Lyr
  ^ ^
  Asgard
  ^ ^
  Bitfrost


----------



## eddiek997

Why would you want two amps?
  The Lyr on top, spaced from the Bifrost gets warm, not overly hot. It's fine, it's Class A, they run Hot. Not an issue.
  You don't need to worry as long as you dont cover it.


----------



## hodgjy

Definitely do not stack anything on top of the Asgard.  If you want to run two amps on one table, put the Bifrost and Asgard upright like a tower, and then run the Lyr flat. 
  
  Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> How much heat comes from the asgard/lyr? Just preparing for the future when I buy all the things and figured it would be easier to get the asgard unless any news on the Fiio E19 comes out.
> 
> I'm asking because i'm curious about stacking the bitfrost/asgard/lyr together. They would be seperated by tall isolation cones. It would look like this below:
> 
> ...


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Why would you want two amps?
> The Lyr on top, spaced from the Bifrost gets warm, not overly hot. It's fine, it's Class A, they run Hot. Not an issue.
> You don't need to worry as long as you dont cover it.


 


  Reason being if I eventually save enough I would be getting the Denon D7000 (which I have enough money for but not amp/dac) and a He-500. The Lyr I hear has problems with the D7000 and not so many good reviews with it. Then again I'm still doing research on the D7000 and the Asgard.

 I always wanted the He-500 if it goes down in price or goes  like the he-5le which goes down to almost $420 USD used at times. Then I wanted the Denons for a closed headphones. I find it best to look big so you don't keep needing to upgrade in small steps. Plus it helps saves the wallet waiting and researching.


----------



## telecaster

Go for it, get the denon! You will lose money by buying the budget minded item and upgrading thus loosing when you sell it. Same goes for the amp, don't buy the cheap Schitt, go direct for a good tube amp like Woo or whatever float your boat! Tube amp rules, but PCB sux! Point to point wiring is what you want in a tube amp. Cheers.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





telecaster said:


> Go for it, get the denon! You will lose money by buying the budget minded item and upgrading thus loosing when you sell it. Same goes for the amp, don't buy the cheap Schitt, go direct for a good tube amp like Woo or whatever float your boat! Tube amp rules, but PCB sux! Point to point wiring is what you want in a tube amp. Cheers.


 


  A Woo amp is too much for my budget and figured the Schiit amps are the best thing next for my price. Don't make me spend more money! Next thing you know I'll just skip the whole he-500 and get the LCD-2.


----------



## rational

Hello fellow Schiit enthusiasts! I am a former Asgard owner, sold it due to heat, and volume. I had to run it full tilt to achieve the volume levels I prefer. Sounded awesome, but I have damaged hearing, which I like to damage more with loud music. I receive my Bifrost today whenever UPS decides to get here. The postman is also delivering some Denon D5000's. I look forward to hearing the denons and my he-400's off the O2 with the Bifrost.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello I'm going to receive Asgard today.  I can't wait and sharing the experience!


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Output Impedance of the Lyr is 6 ohms. On anything less than 50 Ohm input impedance headphones you're going to hear some noise. I don't mind if it's quiet, but the loud ringing that I was getting from my Lyr was ridiculous. Jason responded to my emails and is sending me a new set of tubes. I will update upon getting them. Thanks for all the help guys in diagnosing this problem!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Edit: Strikethrough


 
   
  I know it's been a while, but I thought I would update everyone here in case they were curious about what happened with my bad tube situation. I have been using the new ones for some time, and the noise has decreased considerably. Unfortunately I am now getting intermittent ringing (I think it might be wireless signals coming from somewhere but I don't know), and a very light hiss while running the only set of cans I currently have (Ultrasone PRO 900s) since the others are either being repaired/replaced. I don't know if it's linked to efficiency of those headphones or what, but I'm starting to be sadface with my lyr. :'(
   
  Cheers,


----------



## Raser

gmahler2u said:


> Hello I'm going to receive Asgard today.  I can't wait and sharing the experience!


You are going to be surprised. I have loved my asgard a lot. And tested it with wide variety of headphones. At its price point it is an amazing amp IMO. Real bang for buck. After couple of tube amps i think im going back to solid state amps, really like the sound in them. And im not saying that tube amps suck, i still own couple of them


----------



## fenderf4i

I'm loving my Asgard.
   
  One thing though, I have no idea why people complain about the heat. The way a lot of people talked, it was like you would barely be able to touch the amp. After running for two hours, I wouldn't say it's hot, just quite "warm".


----------



## Dennito

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> I'm loving my Asgard.
> 
> One thing though, I have no idea why people complain about the heat. The way a lot of people talked, it was like you would barely be able to touch the amp. After running for two hours, I wouldn't say it's hot, just quite "warm".


 


 +1 The heat issue gets far too much attention and was clearly explained in the other Schiit thread. My Asgard gets a little warm; really a non-issue. The only explanation for all the talk of heat is either a variance within the product line (doubtful) or some folks are excessively heat-sensitive/obsessive (probable). The Asgard is a rockin' piece of equipment that is a killer value. If you don't have one, buy now before the price goes up.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello friends.
  I need your help on this.  I got the Asgard and sound won't come out...
  my set up is like this.
   
  macbook usb to hrt musicsteamer ii +  to Macintosh to Asgard.
   
  is this sounds right to you? 
   
  Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

It should be:
   
  Macintosh--HRT--Asgard.
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello friends.
> I need your help on this.  I got the Asgard and sound won't come out...
> my set up is like this.
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Hey Werner,
   
  How would you describe the treble and sibilance using the Valhalla and DT990s?  I'm considering this combo because as my as I love my other amps, I'm in the mood for a good OTL amp to fully power the 990s to their full potential.
   
  Thanks.
  
  Quote: 





wberghofer said:


> Here you are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## gmahler2u

yes....i got the sound from the headphone.
  but it has weak sound...


----------



## hodgjy

Go into the sound properties of your digital player (iTunes, perhaps??) and adjust the gain from there.
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> yes....i got the sound from the headphone.
> but it has weak sound...


----------



## rational

I have a feeling my heat issue stems from the fact I am hard of hearing. As such, I tended to run the Asgard full tilt, which I assume exacerbated heat production. It was a fine amp, and it sounded fantastic, but it did not attain an output level I found agreeable. However, I have 30% hearing in my right ear, so I am an exception, not the rule.


----------



## gmahler2u

is this my ear?  asgard sounds muffle.  I guess i need get use to it..


----------



## hodgjy

My Asgard sounds nice and smooth, yet very clear.  Something must be going on with how your music files are being decoded by the dac and delivered to the Asgard. 
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> is this my ear?  asgard sounds muffle.  I guess i need get use to it..


----------



## HydronQc

I'm planning the get the Bifrost but i'm not decided on the amp. Asgard or Valhalla? 
  I will use it with My Ultrasone pro750 and I will probably get a Grado SR225i or Grado PS500.


----------



## hodgjy

Based on the phones, go for the Asgard.  The Valhalla will have too high of an output impedance to work optimally.
  
  Quote: 





hydronqc said:


> I'm planning the get the Bifrost but i'm not decided on the amp. Asgard or Valhalla?
> I will use it with My Ultrasone pro750 and I will probably get a Grado SR225i or Grado PS500.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> My Asgard sounds nice and smooth, yet very clear.  Something must be going on with how your music files are being decoded by the dac and delivered to the Asgard.


 


  I had AAC file so I'm changing to Apple Lossless file.  Now sound much better but volume wise, I still have to crank up...is that normal?
  Although CD playing is much better. sound wise and volume too.


----------



## ImperialX

Quote: 





fenderf4i said:


> I'm curious about the optical out as well, in particular from a newer iMac. Would I be best off adding the USB input just to have the option?


 
   
  Add the USB. It'll be useful in the future.


----------



## fenderf4i

imperialx said:


> Quote: Add the USB. It'll be useful in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I've decided that's what I'm going to do. Better to have it than not.


----------



## wberghofer

hodgjy said:


> How would you describe the treble and sibilance using the Valhalla and DT990s? […]


 
   
  For my ears the treble is very clear, crisp and well defined, simply enjoyable. Could be that I got pig’s ears, but I do not notice any troubles with sibilances at all; neither with the Beyerdynamic DT 990 nor with the T1.
   
  Werner.


----------



## hodgjy

Thank you for your input.  Very helpful.  Must resist opening wallet.............
  
  Quote: 





wberghofer said:


> For my ears the treble is very clear, crisp and well defined, simply enjoyable. Could be that I got pig’s ears, but I do not notice any troubles with sibilances at all; neither with the Beyerdynamic DT 990 nor with the T1.
> 
> Werner.


----------



## wberghofer

hodgjy said:


> Must resist opening wallet




Don’t resist, just open it: You only live once 

Yesterday I had a late night listening session. I enjoyed every second of the Tord Gustavsen Quartet’s music, reproduced by the Schiit Bifrost, the Schiit Valhalla and the Beyerdynamic T1.



Werner.


----------



## hodgjy

Very true.  Right now, I've narrowed my next purchase down to the Valhalla and the Violectric V90 (or V100).  On paper, both should supply ample voltage to treat the DT990s with the power and respect they need.
   
  My Asgard has recently become my bedroom rig driving my Koss Pro DJ 100s.  That is a very good combo.  Very smooth and musical.  Now, I'm looking for another amp in my main room to complement my Trafomatic.
  
  Quote: 





wberghofer said:


> Don't resist, just open it: You only live once


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> I know it's been a while, but I thought I would update everyone here in case they were curious about what happened with my bad tube situation. I have been using the new ones for some time, and the noise has decreased considerably. Unfortunately I am now getting intermittent ringing (I think it might be wireless signals coming from somewhere but I don't know), and a very light hiss while running the only set of cans I currently have (Ultrasone PRO 900s) since the others are either being repaired/replaced. I don't know if it's linked to efficiency of those headphones or what, but I'm starting to be sadface with my lyr. :'(
> 
> Cheers,


 
   
  Last update to my ordeal,
   
       I have decided to return the Lyr. Nothing much else to do, I plan on keeping my Bifrost. Guess it just didn't work our for me. Going to have to look at other alternative SS options.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## hodgjy

How about the Asgard?
  
  Quote: 





peachesncream said:


> Last update to my ordeal,
> 
> I have decided to return the Lyr. Nothing much else to do, I plan on keeping my Bifrost. Guess it just didn't work our for me. Going to have to look at other alternative SS options.
> 
> Cheers,


----------



## PeachesNCream

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> How about the Asgard?


 


  Maybe, but two things
   

 No "Fulfilled by Amazon" seller exists for the Asgard, so I would miss out on the luxurious return policy which I utilized here. (30 day+100% full refund vs. Schiit's 15 day)
 Sort of down on Schiit for now, would maybe like to try something else first.
   
  Still, I do like my Bifrost just fine. We'll see.
   
  Cheers,


----------



## gmahler2u

to my earsI Asgard and HD800 is not good match...well see I still have play around it but so far not good.


----------



## hodgjy

Unfortunately, the HD800 isn't a good batch for many amplifiers.  On the other hand, the HD600 is a perfect match for the Asgard.
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> to my earsI Asgard and HD800 is not good match...well see I still have play around it but so far not good.


----------



## gmahler2u

**


----------



## hodgjy

^^ nice!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> ^^ nice!


 


  Right now, I'm playing around with Fidelia. Sounds much better with FLAC file..


----------



## gmahler2u

any Flac users which bit are you using?
   
  16 bit or 20 or 24 bit.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> any Flac users which bit are you using?
> 
> 16 bit or 20 or 24 bit.


 


  I use 16 bit generally except for specific recordings that I feel could possibly benefit from 24.  I doubt I hear any difference though.  Even users with full stax rigs have said that they probably wouldn't be able to tell if you replaced all their flac with 320 mp3s without telling them.  That meaning they would not be able to tell anything is wrong so to speak.  Maybe you can tell the difference, and maybe it is important to you, but I feel that you need a very revealing setup to even benefit from such things.  At the moment I don't believe schiit offers that level of performance due to their entry level range.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> I use 16 bit generally except for specific recordings that I feel could possibly benefit from 24.  I doubt I hear any difference though.  Even users with full stax rigs have said that they probably wouldn't be able to tell if you replaced all their flac with 320 mp3s without telling them.  That meaning they would not be able to tell anything is wrong so to speak.  Maybe you can tell the difference, and maybe it is important to you, but I feel that you need a very revealing setup to even benefit from such things.  At the moment I don't believe schiit offers that level of performance due to their entry level range.


 

 right now I'm just experimenting with Flac files.  So far this 24bits or 16bits...they have great sound with asgard and hd800. little down side perhaps, maybe not for anyone but I have to crank the volume high...not all the way up but near all the way up...anyways...still great sound.


----------



## hodgjy

I think the Asgard is very true to the source.  If you feed it detailed songs, it will play detailed songs.  If you feed it muddied songs, they come out muddy.  It's been my philosophy to have your library in as high of resolution as you have space for.  Unfortunately, when I got my first iPod, hard drives were expensive, so my entire library got ripped to 128 kbs AAC.  That took ages.  I don't have the heart to re-rip to Apple Lossless or FLAC, so I still spin CDs.
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> right now I'm just experimenting with Flac files.  So far this 24bits or 16bits...they have great sound with asgard and hd800. little down side perhaps, maybe not for anyone but I have to crank the volume high...not all the way up but near all the way up...anyways...still great sound.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think the Asgard is very true to the source.  If you feed it detailed songs, it will play detailed songs.  If you feed it muddied songs, they come out muddy.  It's been my philosophy to have your library in as high of resolution as you have space for.  Unfortunately, when I got my first iPod, hard drives were expensive, so my entire library got ripped to 128 kbs AAC.  That took ages.  I don't have the heart to re-rip to Apple Lossless or FLAC, so I still spin CDs.


 


  Cd quality also great with Asgard!  so no worries


----------



## hodgjy

x2
  
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Cd quality also great with Asgard!  so no worries


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  We're looking for input on SACD/DSD, if you'd like a chance to win a Bifrost:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/606053/the-schiit-sacd-dsd-research-thread-your-chance-to-win-a-bifrost
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## WhiteCrow

Ordred the Schiit Lyr+Bifrost in combonation with the HE-500...I'm excited.


----------



## BrownBear

Count me in. I have an Asgard and I love it. True, I don't have much to compare it to, but nonetheless I love it just the same. Really makes my Monitor 10s sing.


----------



## WhiteCrow

So far I dig it,  the Lyr is a nice warm amp with a smooth treble response paired with the HE-500.


----------



## BrownBear

WhiteCrow, I was wondering, where do you generally set your volume knob? Like, I was always wondering since the Lyr is so high powered, if I could successfully use low impedance headphones (like 8 ohms) with it. I've read the review over at 6moons and it gave me a good general idea. But still curious. And I know there's differences between HE-500 and other headphones, again I was just wondering.


----------



## WhiteCrow

About 9 or 11 o clock, I move it to 1 if the songs unusually quiet or if I want to listen loud heh.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





brownbear said:


> WhiteCrow, I was wondering, where do you generally set your volume knob? Like, I was always wondering since the Lyr is so high powered, if I could successfully use low impedance headphones (like 8 ohms) with it. I've read the review over at 6moons and it gave me a good general idea. But still curious. And I know there's differences between HE-500 and other headphones, again I was just wondering.


 
   

 where do you usually set your volume knob?  Since you have asgard.  I have a asgard and hd 800 and I set my volume knob around 12 - 2 o clock.
  Is this sound usual to you?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





brownbear said:


> WhiteCrow, I was wondering, where do you generally set your volume knob? Like, I was always wondering since the Lyr is so high powered, if I could successfully use low impedance headphones (like 8 ohms) with it. I've read the review over at 6moons and it gave me a good general idea. But still curious. And I know there's differences between HE-500 and other headphones, again I was just wondering.


 
   
  On my Lyr I have roughly the same settings for all my headphones (HD650 (gone), K702, HE-400.)  With my old source (Pure i-20 dock through Bifrost) I'd set it at about 9 o'clock.  However after switching to Squeezebox Touch through Bifrost, for some unknown reason the signal level is far higher (better SNR?), and I generally keep it down at 7-8 o'clock.  Still the huge radius of the knob makes it easy to fine-tune volume even with such a limited range. 
   
  Even if I felt safe using something like IEMs on it, I would think the noise floor for something so sensitive would not be pleasant to listen to.
   
  Something like HE-500, HE5 would probably go up near 11-12 o'clock.   HE-6....just crank the thing to 5 o'clock and hope you can hear something


----------



## IEMCrazy

Poll for Lyr Owners: If you turn your amp on without headphones plugged in, then later (after the relay sets) put headphones on your head and plug-in, do you hear sound in the headphones from plugging in (a crackle, or snap, or pop, or whatever word you want to describe "a sound" with?)
   
   
  The TL;DR long story about it is: I have two Lyrs.  One is dead-silent on plug in.  The other makes a noise through the headphones on plugin.  A few weeks ago, I plugged in before the relay closed, had the volume up a bit, it was a much louder than usual noise and took the 650s with it.  Note that this is not just the basic "power on thump", but the noise occurs no matter when I plug in, even half an hour later. (No discussion on the fried cans needs to take place here, there was already a different thread for that.)
   
  Now, Schiit's taking care of it, and I can send it back any time for repair/exam.  I'm just avoiding being without my wonderful Lyr at the moment (and it works just fine as is.)
   
  Here's where it gets interesting.  The set of tubes I had turned out to be pretty bad, and I suspect that had more than a little to do with it.  I replaced the tubes and voila, the noise at plugin went almost entirely away (missing most times, small sound other times.)  But I noticed the one tube had a high pitched whine on it.  Swapped it with another new tube.  Whine went away.  But now I have the plug-in noise more frequently again.  *However* the noise is still not as loud as it used to be.  It's there, but not as big.  The tubes seem to be related in one way or another.
   
  Thus my poll: How many folks have a "noise" in the cans when plugging in headphones the first time after power-up?  If it's many, I think that means that the tube change solved my real problem, and I may not need to send the amp in (yay!), if everyone else has a silent plug-in, I'll probably still send the amp in in a month or two.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Yea I have heard that the Lyr can pump some voltage upon plug in and I make sure to turn it on, let the relay run, and turn the knob to 0 before plug in.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> Yea I have heard that the Lyr can pump some voltage upon plug in and I make sure to turn it on, let the relay run, and turn the knob to 0 before plug in.


 
   
  Yeah.  This particular "sound" occurs even after a wait (in one test I waited half an hour, same thing.)   It's definitely not related to the power-on "thump" or the relay's function.  Though the time my cans got blown, I had the volume up and had the cans plugged in before the relay, which in my opinion mattered, Jason assured me that the positon of the volume knob wouldn't matter. But I'm ever the skeptic, and that's the only thing that was different that time.
   
  There was definitely a faulty component involved.  My hope is that the tubes (which were pretty crazy) were the core issue, and the noise that I'm hearing now is a normal one.  Jason did say that a small noise is normal, though my other one makes no noise at all. 
   
  So I take it yours makes zero noise....that's one vote that I should still send it for service


----------



## WhiteCrow

If it blew your cans sending it in for service is a given, it should not pop drives bu plugging them in. I only get noise when turning it on and off but not plugin my cans in. Also the Bifrost makes a very scary snapping noise when plugged into my PS3 when I start a game heh but I read that's normal.


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> where do you usually set your volume knob?  Since you have asgard.  I have a asgard and hd 800 and I set my volume knob around 12 - 2 o clock.
> Is this sound usual to you?


 
   

 For my Monitor 10s, somewhere around 9 to 11 o clock. With my SE-50 (8 ohms) say around 9 to 12 depending on the music. Max i set it with any of my phones is around 12.
   
  However, if the music is something I recorded, the volume is usually lower. So sometimes, I will go to 1 or 2 o clock.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> If it blew your cans sending it in for service is a given, it should not pop drives bu plugging them in. I only get noise when turning it on and off but not plugin my cans in. Also the Bifrost makes a very scary snapping noise when plugged into my PS3 when I start a game heh but I read that's normal.


 
   
  Maybe so but Lyr is so addictive I don't want to be without it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I probably will still send it in but I was curious what amount of noise is considered normal versus not.  It really has tamed down after the tube change.  Those tubes were doing something nasty.  Although the new sound has more of a hiss to it as well.  So there still could be something wrong.  But I'm going to need intense counseling to keep my calm while my Lyr is away!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I figure mid-summer I won't use it as much so that's a good time.  I keep pushing it back.
   
  Yeah Bifrost makes that sound when it is changing clocks.  Most AVRs do the same when you change inputs or source signals.


----------



## labmat

I drive my Thunderpants with the Valhalla and Bifrost DAC connected to the optical out from my MacBook Pro.  Sounds great and looks great!


----------



## BrownBear

Just went back to using my Asgard after an extended listening session using only my laptop and headphones. All I can say is, wow. What a difference. So much fuller sounding.
   
  EDIT - This thing just drives my SE-50 with such authority. Like total control and so much power to push into these.


----------



## BenjaminHarris

Hi all,
   
  I'm looking for a Schiit amplifier recommendation.  I'm a long-time Sennheiser HD 595 user (7 years, 20,000 hours).  I love my 595s, but after 7 years they're tattered and need to be replaced.  I've purchased the 598s (haven't gotten them yet, still in transit) but I'm also probably going to purchase the 650s and audition both.  I enjoy listening to classical, rock, country, dance, and jazz.  
   
  Because I haven't listened to any headphones other than my 595s in 7 years (and therefore I have nothing to compare it with), I'm not really sure what sound signature I prefer.  That said, I do like the signature of my 595s when amped with the best thing I have for the job (Yahama A/V receiver; I know it's not ideal), but in my experience they sound absolutely lifeless when not adequately powered (e.g., straight out of the mini-stereo jack on my computer).  Although my Fiio E10 is a noticeable improvement over mini-stereo output from the computer, I'd say that it probably only gets the 595s about half way between my worst (computer) and best (Yamaha) options.
   
  Since I'm replacing my headphones and amplifier, I'll also be upgrading my DAC as well (I intend to purchase a Bifrost).  That would make the entire chain:
   
  (1) Mac laptop ---> (2) glass optical or audioquest usb ---> (3) Schiit Bifrost ---> (4) good quality interconnects ---> (5) (AMPLIFIER RECOMMENDATION) ---> (6) (a) HD 598, (b) HD 650, or (c) HD 598 AND HD 650.
   
  All that is to say that I'm looking for a recommendation for what you would consider the best Schiit amplifier for (1) the HD 598, (2) the HD 650, and (3) the HD 598 AND the HD 650.
   
  EDIT: I suppose I should also say that my budget limits me to any of the currently available Schiit amplifiers (Asgard, Valhalla, or Lyr).
   
  Thanks very much for your time!


----------



## hodgjy

Because the 598s are low impedance, the common denominator for running those as well as the 650s is the Asgard.  The Valhalla won't be an optimal match for the 598s. If you were only going to run the 650s, I'd say the Valhalla.
   
  Only the 598s: Asgard
  Only the 650s: Valhalla
  Both the 598s and 650s: Asgard
   
   
  Quote: 





benjaminharris said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking for a Schiit amplifier recommendation.  I'm a long-time Sennheiser HD 595 user (7 years, 20,000 hours).  I love my 595s, but after 7 years they're tattered and need to be replaced.  I've purchased the 598s (haven't gotten them yet, still in transit) but I'm also probably going to purchase the 650s and audition both.  I enjoy listening to classical, rock, country, dance, and jazz.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mcberto

I just ordered the Schiit Lyr and they're set to come on Wednesday.
   
  I was wondering if the Asgard would be more appropriate to drive my HD 598's and HE-400's. I plan to step higher on terms of headphones, I was taking that into consideration when ordering the Lyr over the Asgard. 
   
  Please tell me if you need more info to answer the question as I am fairly new to the head-fi community.
   
  Thanks,
  Andy


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mcberto said:


> I just ordered the Schiit Lyr and they're set to come on Wednesday.
> 
> I was wondering if the Asgard would be more appropriate to drive my HD 598's and HE-400's. I plan to step higher on terms of headphones, I was taking that into consideration when ordering the Lyr over the Asgard.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Lyr is an *excellent* amp for the HE-400!  No worries there, it was designed from the ground up for powering orthos.  Despite being "efficient orthos" that roughly translates to "inefficient headphone" and still has a low impedance.... The two are a perfect match.   If I'm not mistaken HD598 is very similar to HD600/HD650 in terms of the drivers and the power profiles and as such Lyr should also be the ideal choice for both of them as well.  Asgard would work for any of them, but I think you made the right choice on Lyr.
   
  Between my SS AVRs and my SS Headroom Micro (Desktop), Lyr is, by no small margin, my favorite amp for almost everything (HD650, HE-400, K702.)  I'm using it with my new D5000s, but that's one headphone that it's really not suited for, too much noise and tube microphonics go into the ultra-sensitive Denons (it works, but without a "black background", and with the occasional tube screech).  Same for IEMs, MDR-7506, etc. 
   
  For the Senns you'll want to let the tubes get hot for best sound.  I found a noticable shelf of improvement after about 45min to an hour on tube warmup with the HD650's (it gets smoother and more fluid) after that time.  For the HE-400,s since they crave mostly the current not the voltage, the warmer tubes have less of an effect, so as long a warmup isn't as beneficial.


----------



## BenjaminHarris

Thanks! I've tried searching for a description of the sonic differences between the asgard and valhalla but there are so many threads that mention them that I'm having difficulty finding descriptions.  Will you (or anyone) compare the sound differences between the two?
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Because the 598s are low impedance, the common denominator for running those as well as the 650s is the Asgard.  The Valhalla won't be an optimal match for the 598s. If you were only going to run the 650s, I'd say the Valhalla.
> 
> Only the 598s: Asgard
> Only the 650s: Valhalla
> Both the 598s and 650s: Asgard


----------



## hodgjy

It's not so much the sonic differences as it is current/voltage/impedance differences.


----------



## Mcberto

Just got them today. Sounds awesome. $480 bucks well-spent in my opinion.
   
  Having one of those music highs/spazzing.
   
  The Bifrost should be coming tomorrow.


----------



## catchthecarp

New Valhalla owner, about 40 hours on it now.  This is my first headphone rig, enjoying the experience tremendously.  The Valhalla is fed by an Oppo BDP-83SE and drives HD600's, this combination makes beautiful music together,  warm, detailed sound.  My only regret is not discovering this way of listening to music sooner!


----------



## driver 8

With the volume knob at 0 I hear slight crackling noise while plugging my headphones in, but it's nothing threatening.  My turn-on noise, though, is terrifying, but only on the left side (should it ever happen on only one side?)  I thought I blew out my LCD2's the one time I did it, but they still work just fine.  I'm pretty sure any dynamic can would have been blown out, though, which leaves me a bit terrified of the amp and rather disappointed in Schiit.  I've read they test their power on and off cycles with a pair of HD650's, but I have to wonder how thorough they are in said tests with all this crazy ******** happening.


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> With the volume knob at 0 I hear slight crackling noise while plugging my headphones in


 
  I too hear this noise but with my Asgard. If I wear the headphones while plugging them in, there will be a noise. I haven't had the guts to experiment with turn on/off noise with any good headphones. Yet. But, with my Lowriders there is a slight pop but it is in fact in both channels.


----------



## garfieldodie

I don't have one but very likely to get a Valhalla... I'm a newbie to HiFi and I just post a thread about what to choose to pair with DT880/600ohm, but only got a negative respond... Well I'm open minded but I'm still interested in Valhalla... So...
  Is Nuforce uDAC2 + Valhalla a good combo for DT880/600 ohm? 
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> With the volume knob at 0 I hear slight crackling noise while plugging my headphones in, but it's nothing threatening.  My turn-on noise, though, is terrifying, but only on the left side (should it ever happen on only one side?)  I thought I blew out my LCD2's the one time I did it, but they still work just fine.  I'm pretty sure any dynamic can would have been blown out, though, which leaves me a bit terrified of the amp and rather disappointed in Schiit.  I've read they test their power on and off cycles with a pair of HD650's, but I have to wonder how thorough they are in said tests with all this crazy ******** happening.


 
   
  I think contacting Jason may be wise in your case, the symptoms sound similar to mine.  The LCD2s can take that kind of hit though.   
   
  If you don't mind, a few questions:
  -Do you have Lyr or a different model?
  -When did you order yours?  Was it the January 2012 shipment?
  -If you look at your tubes, assuming they are GEs and a Lyr, do they have the word "Japan" below the GE logo? (Long story, suffice it to say that all the Japan tubes have been pulled from inventory after I pointed it out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  They seem safe enough, they're just horribly microphonic and seem to fail quickly.  But it's another interesting data point.)
  -If you turn the amp on, then leave it for a while, even a half hour or so, do you still get the "crackling" noise?  (I assume the "crackling" on an LCD2 is more like the "snapping" on a dynamic.
  -If you peer into the vent with a flashlight, back  by the RCA jacks there are little white blocks on the PCB intended for info like who assembled it, what the test voltage was etc.  Do you have writing in any kind of marker pen on there or are the blocks empty?
   
  I haven't sent mine for RMA yet....probably in 4-6 weeks I will. I thought the problem went away, but I've been noticing it more, and I think my 650s are just in bad enough shape they don't even pull all the extra charge, though the real damage happened when doing a power-on.  (I think the power-on isn't the issue, it's the "crackle" that's the issue when COMBINED with the power-on thump. 
   
  Jason said hearing a slight noise in the headphones is normal at plug-in, but not really audible from a distance.  Mine was quite audible from a distance.  Also my second Lyr makes no noise at all.
   
  I'm still thinking bad caps or bad relays are to blame, or someone in assembly crossed circuits where they shouldn't have.
   
  Quote: 





brownbear said:


> I too hear this noise but with my Asgard. If I wear the headphones while plugging them in, there will be a noise. I haven't had the guts to experiment with turn on/off noise with any good headphones. Yet. But, with my Lowriders there is a slight pop but it is in fact in both channels.


 
   
  Not sure if the issues are the same with Asgard or not.  Mind answering the same questions (minus the Lyr/tube specific ones?)


----------



## driver 8

I ordered mine in April and can't comment on the rest yet because I don't have the amp on hand.  When I do, though, is there a method to getting the tubes out?  I can only grip them from the top due to the depth of the sockets in the amp and gripping glass like that scares me as I could just shatter it.


----------



## Jgonzalez

I have a Bifrost/Asgard with HD650 and K702, haven't had that problem yet.  I do hear a "snap" from the bifrost when changing source input (from USB to Coax), but nothing live threatning.


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I think contacting Jason may be wise in your case, the symptoms sound similar to mine.  The LCD2s can take that kind of hit though.
> 
> If you don't mind, a few questions:
> -Do you have Lyr or a different model?
> ...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





driver 8 said:


> I ordered mine in April and can't comment on the rest yet because I don't have the amp on hand.  When I do, though, is there a method to getting the tubes out?  I can only grip them from the top due to the depth of the sockets in the amp and gripping glass like that scares me as I could just shatter it.


 
   
  I ended up buying one of those Electro-Harmonix Tube Gloves....best thing ever.  If you don't have one though, I use the foam that the tubes came packaged in to get a grip on them.  I don't recommend gripping them with your bare hands since skin oils on tubes (or any hot glass item like light bulbs, especially halogen ones) ends up creating hot spots that weaken the glass over time.)   They aren't going to break on you (those things have to be pretty solid to survive being a vacuum after all), but you don't want them to prematurely fail.
   
  But you shouldn't need to remove the tubes to check the important stuff, so don't go out of your way for it.  The only thing you won't be able to check without removing the tubes is if they're the Japan tubes...you may be able to see the writing if you just peer down the side of the tube with a flashlight.  But everything else, the tubes won't get in the way for looking through the vent at the numbers in the back etc.  Since you're from the April batch I don't think the Japan tubes are terribly relevant anyway.  Mine's still doing it with the US tubes.  It didn't have the problem severely when I first changed tubes, but it came back.
   
  I reported my issue probably while that batch was being made, but it was presumed the January batch was the mostly faulty one (one other H-F-er in the UK had fried 650's from similar symptoms as mine, unfortunately he hasn't popped on the forums recently.)  Both of ours were from the January batch.   It's definitely not all units (like I said, my other one is flawless), so there's either some random box of parts that isn't the right quality, or someone on the assembly line that doesn't know what they're doing.  That's where the writing in the blocks on the back comes in.  The one that's perfect has writing written in silver marker by the person who assembled/tested it.  My bad one has no writing at all.  I'm still using it, I just use my blown headphones when I first plug in to "drain" whatever charge is being stored.  After that, it's fine till I turn it off.
   
  I know at the time Jason was trying to round up all the potentially bad ones.  I'm not sure if he's had a chance to look at any yet and thus has no idea what the cause is.  I'm dragging my feet on sending it back until I'm done using it for the hot summer months, the guy in the UK I don't think ever got my PM, 
   
  Problems like these are annoying because if we rule out human-error in assembly, it's the type of problem that results from x% of boxes of part y were faulty, but they get randomly distributed to a smattering of end units.
   
  It's a weird one because it's not just at power-on, but is at first plug-in whenever that plugin may take place.  Everyone assumes it's "power on thump" related, but it's not.  It's some component storing a charge until a load (headphones) is connected to release into.  Bad capacitors (maybe transformer caps?) is the first thing that comes to mind.
   
  So it would be interesting to see what is similar/dissimilar between yours and mine and maybe BrownBear's so as we send ours in for service (those of us that do) we have a bit more of an idea what to tell him to look for to be sure it's solved.  It's definitely not all units, since my two were from the same batch, shipped the same day and the one is perfect (not even a slight noise (which is normal)) when plugging in.  And it's definitely not the relay, which seems to be working fine.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





jgonzalez said:


> I have a Bifrost/Asgard with HD650 and K702, haven't had that problem yet.  I do hear a "snap" from the bifrost when changing source input (from USB to Coax), but nothing live threatning.


 
   
  The Bifrost "snap" when switching inputs (or even changing the bit depth or sample rate on the same input) is perfectly normal.  That's the internal relay that actuates when changing clocks or inputs.  It's actually a mechanical device sound, not an electrical issue.  Most A/V Receivers do the same.
   
  The snaps we're talking about from the amps are coming from the headphones, not the equipment stack, its a surge being sent into the headphones and making them actuate at a loud volume for a moment when plugging headphones in.  Your setup sounds like it's in perfect order!
   
  Quote: 





brownbear said:


>





> -When did you order yours?  Was it the January 2012 shipment? *No, I got mine in December 2011.*
> 
> -If you look at your tubes, assuming they are GEs and a Lyr, do they have the word "Japan" below the GE logo? (Long story, suffice it to say that all the Japan tubes have been pulled from inventory after I pointed it out
> 
> ...


 
   
  It sounds like yours is fine as well depending on how loud a noise you get on plugging.   On mine I get no noise when unplugging, nor when re-plugging.  It's only when plugging in the first time after power-up.  Yours sounds like the normal potential plug-in noise that even ipods will sometimes give, not the special case first-time surge voltage that I'm getting and it sounds like driver8 may be getting.  The main difference is, the noise I'm talking about can be heard from several feet away from the headphones if the room is quiet.
   
  So it seems like the letters on the PCB may not be of relevance. We'll see what driver's has.  We'll also have to see if driver's issue is the same as mine where plugging in the first time after power-on will do it, but not after that.  I presume that's the key issue.  I imagine there's only a handful of us with the issue, and as such must all share components from the same bad part box or share assembly errors by the same assembler.
   
  It's nice getting a collection of info though so that when sent back we can provide more details on the symptoms to troubleshoot, and more accurately inform others that may stumble into the forums wondering if they have the problem.  There's an unfortunate overreaction from many people when you mention a Lyr frying anything that people couple the details with the early days before the relay was installed and assume Lyrs are dangerous.  In reality the two are entirely unrelated problems, and what I'm talking about seems to be a very specific and isolated defect.


----------



## BrownBear

Thanks very much, IEMCrazy.


----------



## Mcberto

My experience with the Lyr has been frustrating at best... Had bad stock tubes that dropped one channel or the other, then got replacement tubes and it still hasn't fixed the channel problem.
   
  I've been having popping and crackle problems when plugging in my headphones. I bought the Lyr in hopes to pair them up with my HE-500's, but now I wonder if the problems I've been having and the price is worth the trouble.
   
  I have powered on before I plugged my hp's in and took them out before I power down.
   
  Please tell me any possible way to fix this or make the amp less of a hassle to deal with. 
   
  I am fairly new to tube/hybrid amp's so please take it easy on me.
   
  Was thinking about moving to the Asgard instead to have a decent amp without such a hassle. for me. 
   
  Thanks, 
   
  Andy


----------



## Kremer930

To anybody that has moved up from a Dap or iPod, simply don't have your cans plugged in when you power on or off. Why complain about potential risks? Just avoid them altogether!


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> To anybody that has moved up from a Dap or iPod, simply *don't have your cans plugged in when you power on or off*. Why complain about potential risks? Just avoid them altogether!


 
  It tells you this in the manual...why do people not read the manual.


----------



## BrownBear

Big +1 on not having the cans plugged in on power on or off. I always do that with all my units.


----------



## Mcberto

Quote: 





mcberto said:


> My experience with the Lyr has been frustrating at best... Had bad stock tubes that dropped one channel or the other, then got replacement tubes and it still hasn't fixed the channel problem.
> 
> I've been having popping and crackle problems when plugging in my headphones. I bought the Lyr in hopes to pair them up with my HE-500's, but now I wonder if the problems I've been having and the price is worth the trouble.
> 
> ...


 
  I have done exactly what the manual said. and what you guys said.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





mcberto said:


> My experience with the Lyr has been frustrating at best... Had bad stock tubes that dropped one channel or the other, then got replacement tubes and it still hasn't fixed the channel problem.
> 
> I've been having popping and crackle problems when plugging in my headphones. I bought the Lyr in hopes to pair them up with my HE-500's, but now I wonder if the problems I've been having and the price is worth the trouble.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you check the interconnects to the amp from your source? Check both cables, both ends. If its secure, listen, deduce which channel is problematic.. swap the cables from L to R, see if the problem follows. I've seen cables go bad before. Make sure the tubes are properly seated and not slightly loose - you may have to put a fair amount of pressure on once you have the pins aligned properly (obviously not too much pressure). Again, swap tubes from one to the other and listen to see if the problem follows the tube.
  Make sure your volume pot is all the way down before turning on/off amp and connecting cans - Also, make sure the headphone jack is ALL the way in. (some of this might sound stupid but have to ask).
   
  If you have done all of the above and the problem persists, call Schiit. Their support has a very good reputation (one of the reasons why I bought mine).
  Also, hang in there, the Lyr pairs very well with the HE500's and decent tubes. The result is worth any temporary issues.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mcberto said:


> My experience with the Lyr has been frustrating at best... Had bad stock tubes that dropped one channel or the other, then got replacement tubes and it still hasn't fixed the channel problem.
> 
> I've been having popping and crackle problems when plugging in my headphones. I bought the Lyr in hopes to pair them up with my HE-500's, but now I wonder if the problems I've been having and the price is worth the trouble.
> 
> ...


 
   
  As for the tubes, examine the tubes themselves if you can.  Is the word "Japan" stamped beneath the GE logo on them?  There were a few cases of Japanese made tubes that snuck into Schiit's shipments they were unaware of.  Jason was unaware there even was a Japanese made version, after I pointed it out, he removed all the remaining ones from inventory, but that was only a few weeks ago.  The fault lies with GE who made a completely different tube to a different spec in the Japanese factory and didn't feel the need to change the model number.  GE screwing up?  Who'd have guessed?   If you visually inspect the Japanese and USA made tubes, they're entirely different with a completely different heater system and everything.  The Japanese ones barely even glow, the US ones glow quite bright.  Why GE marked them as the same product is something I'll never understand, however we do know that mostly anything made in Japan in the 50's and 60's can be assumed to be garbage in the purest form (in contrast to today when anything made in Japan can be assumed equal-or-better to anything US-made!)   So that may explain your tube issue if they're the Japanese ones.  In my experience they're horribly, horribly microphonic, and fail within 300 hours. The US tubes, of the 5 I've installed, I have one that tends to make some crackle/hiss for the first 20 min or so during warmup but is generally fine after that, I had one that had a bit of a whine sound periodically, some people may not mind but I'm sensitive to UHF so it drove me nuts.  The other 3 are flawless.   Of course tubes are tubes, there's a bit of trial and error to find a perfect one when buying NOS stuff that's been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse since the Eisenhower administration.    However, the reward is worth the effort.  Hearing my HE-400 on a very well measuring SS amp versus on the hybrid lyr....I'll mess with the tubes any day for that sound... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Don't judge the Lyr by a batch of bad $20 tubes, it'll give a poor impression of a great amp.
   
   
  Can you please describe your crackle problems when plugging in?  You say you plug in after power-on...how long do you wait before plugging in?  If you wait a long time (10, 20, 30 minutes) do you still get this "crackle"?  Is this crackle just a little noise in the cans if you plug in while they're on your head, or is it a loud "snap" from the drivers that you can hear from a few feet away from the headphones?  Those are the keys to if it's just normal plug-in noise, or if it's an actual problem. 
   
   
  Don't give up on Lyr.  From what I've heard, HE-500 is much like my HE-400 (better, by a bit but too similar to warrant owning both), and if so, the HE-400 is magical on Lyr compared to my O2 (which I bought instead of Agard since I really bought it only for my Denons which Lyr is too high gain for, and Asgard can't be stacked under Lyr.) The tubes do some nice things for the planars...
   
  Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> It tells you this in the manual...why do people not read the manual.


 
  Quote: 





brownbear said:


> Big +1 on not having the cans plugged in on power on or off. I always do that with all my units.


 
   
  WhiteCrow: Some people may not read the manual, but others don't read posts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Most of us here are talking about plugging in AFTER power-on.  In my case, I can wait 30+ minutes after power-on, that snap is still there.  Meaning it's something different from the power-on thump, but rather a stored charge somewhere.  yes, the day the headphones got blown I mistakenly plugged in at power-on and the combination of the normal thump and the stored charge were what created the final problem, however the behavior of the post-power-on snap is an actual defect unrelated to power-on that needs to be serviced to resolve.  I happen to be the bottleneck in getting it serviced for the moment. 
   
  Also, on a properly functioning Lyr, other than the first batches without relays, there is no real need aside from paranoia to not plug in at startup.  My other one for example would have no problem doing so.  My bad one was different because the normal safe power-on with the relay combined with the defect to create a more severe problem.  But this is not about power-on thumps, but rather a specific broken amplifier component that seems to have affected a handful of units in either the January batch or a few batches since then. And I can confirm personally it didn't affect all of them from that batch.  The symptoms are obvious and absolute, and my second one has no such symptoms, from the same batch.


----------



## Kremer930

Relax. People just reinforced the need to not power on or off with cans plugged in. There is no need to go to town....

There are likely a lot of headfi noobies that are unaware of the risks, regardless of brand or model of amp.

Cheers


----------



## WhiteCrow

Yea, I would always turn my little dot MKII on and off with out phones...but it is OTL so that can potentially damage the amp from what i have read, no problems thus far with it however.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> Yea, I would always turn my little dot MKII on and off with out phones...but it is OTL so that can potentially damage the amp from what i have read, no problems thus far with it however.


 
   
  One of the most ironic events in hifidom is the certain former H-F member who is not to be named who was banished from the forums, primarily resulting from his arguing with Jason over the lack of a relay mute on Asgard originally who ended up designing his own amp, mostly to prove Schiit (and others) wrong in their designs/costs.   I ended up buying a pre-assmbled version of that DIY amp recently for a set of Denons the Lyr doesn't do well with.  Decent, cute little amp it is, but the grand irony: No relay mute...maybe next version.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm glad I trained myself to get into the habit of not powering on/off with headphones plugged in on the Lyr, where it technically shouldn't matter now


----------



## hodgjy

One of the greatest misunderstandings in headphone audio is the turn on/off bump.  While there is some transient voltage that does cause this noise, and it can damage headphones if not properly designed, many times the pop we hear is not actually transients but the power switch arcing.  I still have a pop in my Asgard, and I do have the mute relay, so I'm convinced the pop is from the power switch arcing.  FWIW, my Trafomatic arcs during power off, too.


----------



## Penarin

Ordered my Asgard this morning!


----------



## drunkn

Would a Schiit Lyr/Bifrost be a bad pairing for a denon d7000. I'm hearing people saying it's too "noisy". Thoughts?


----------



## hodgjy

It's my opinion that the best Schiit amp for low impedance headphones is the Asgard.  Use the Valhalla if you have high impedance headphones, and use the Lyr if you have orthos.  I think it all boils down to that.  You don't need the brute force of the Lyr for the Denons.  Many people claim the Asgard is the best sounding Schiit of the bunch, so save yourself a few bucks and get a lower noise floor by getting the Asgard.
  Quote: 





drunkn said:


> Would a Schiit Lyr/Bifrost be a bad pairing for a denon d7000. I'm hearing people saying it's too "noisy". Thoughts?


----------



## Lee Harvey

I don't know why folks are saying that the Lyr is not a good match for Denon headphones.  I have been using my D5000's and HD650's with the Lyr for 6 months now and I am very satisfied with the results.  With the D5000's the Lyr provides power and control to keep the D5000's from being tubby sounding.  It allows them to develop deep bass and still have an very open midrange and highs while keeping a nice warm sound that the Lyr can produce.  I have never had any issues with the D5000's being too sensitive to bring noise into the sound.  I also use my HD650's and 600's with the Lyr when I want a more open sound.  The D5000's are better at playings things like Stevie Ray Vaughan's nice fat bass lines.  I trade out what headphones I use for what type of music I am listening to at the time.  The Lyr blows my Audio GD FUN out the doors.  The FUN is veiled sounding compared to the Lyr.   I bought the Lyr for the ability to drive most headphones including Orthos for when I am able to cough up the cash for some HE500s or LCD2's.  I am using the 6N1P tubes that Schiit sells in my Lyr.  They work great with both headphones and are a improvement over the stock tubes that the Lyr ships with.  Maybe some folks are using 6922 tube which in humble opinion are crap.  I hate 6922 tubes from past experience with them.  They have no bass control and a soft, muffled high end.  As for the Lyr my first unit showed up DOA with the relay not turning the tubes on.  Jason shipped me out new unit to replace the dead unit after a few phone call and emails.  I would like to get a chance to listen to the Bifrost and the new Peachtree DACit to see which DAC would be the best match with the Lry since they are at the same price point.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I don't know why folks are saying that the Lyr is not a good match for Denon headphones.  I have been using my D5000's and HD650's with the Lyr for 6 months now and I am very satisfied with the results.  With the D5000's the Lyr provides power and control to keep the D5000's from being tubby sounding.  It allows them to develop deep bass and still have an very open midrange and highs while keeping a nice warm sound that the Lyr can produce.  I have never had any issues with the D5000's being too sensitive to bring noise into the sound.  I also use my HD650's and 600's with the Lyr when I want a more open sound.  The D5000's are better at playings things like Stevie Ray Vaughan's nice fat bass lines.  I trade out what headphones I use for what type of music I am listening to at the time.  The Lyr blows my Audio GD FUN out the doors.  The FUN is veiled sounding compared to the Lyr.   I bought the Lyr for the ability to drive most headphones including Orthos for when I am able to cough up the cash for some HE500s or LCD2's.  I am using the 6N1P tubes that Schiit sells in my Lyr.  They work great with both headphones and are a improvement over the stock tubes that the Lyr ships with.  Maybe some folks are using 6922 tube which in humble opinion are crap.  I hate 6922 tubes from past experience with them.  They have no bass control and a soft, muffled high end.  As for the Lyr my first unit showed up DOA with the relay not turning the tubes on.  Jason shipped me out new unit to replace the dead unit after a few phone call and emails.  I would like to get a chance to listen to the Bifrost and the new Peachtree DACit to see which DAC would be the best match with the Lry since they are at the same price point.


 
   
  The tubes may indeed be the difference.  The 6N1P's supposedly run hotter and sound more tubey, but perhaps they're lower gain and less noisy as well.  I'm running the GE BZ's from Schiit and love the sound of them for everything but the Denons.  With the Denons the noise floor is just too high.  Audible hiss, periodic "static" from the tubes, periodic screech, etc.  For HD650, HE-400, and K702, it's the only amp I'll use 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  For Denons, at least with these tubes, it's a non-starter unless you like noise.  I also personally prefer the sound of the Denons on an SS amp better, and is the only headphone I feel that way about.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> The tubes may indeed be the difference.  The 6N1P's supposedly run hotter and sound more tubey, but perhaps they're lower gain and less noisy as well.  I'm running the GE BZ's from Schiit and love the sound of them for everything but the Denons.  With the Denons the noise floor is just too high.  Audible hiss, periodic "static" from the tubes, periodic screech, etc.  For HD650, HE-400, and K702, it's the only amp I'll use
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The great thing about the Lyr is that is relatively cheap to switch out a couple of tubes and change its character and operating parameters.  How do you like your HE-400's compared to the HD650s?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> The great thing about the Lyr is that is relatively cheap to switch out a couple of tubes and change its character and operating parameters.  How do you like your HE-400's compared to the HD650s?


 
   
  Absolutely.  I expected to do that early on, but I ended up liking what I already had with the stock tubes so much I'm loathe to try changing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The HD650's and HE-400's are, to me overwhelmingly different headphones (TMRaven would disagree.)  It's hard to compare them as a direct contrast, IMO since they represent very different sound signatures beyond a few similarities.  I wouldn't sell either, and I'm delighted that yesterday I finally got my replacement drivers for the 650's that the Lyr incident damaged.  I initially bought the HE-400's as a replacement/upgrade from HD650, but eventually decided that I needed the 650's back in the mix.  HD650 has been my headphone of choice for over 5 years, but I have to say I think HE-400 has officially dethroned them as my go-to all all-rounder headphone and in the #1 slot on my stand.  They combine some of the things I like about HD650 and some of the things I like about K702 and put them on one headphone.  They're much more alive and exciting than HD650, but with a hint of being laid back and without being so linear they're fatiguing as K702.  On the other hand, they just can't replace HD650 for that laid back relaxing sound or K702 for true linearity. Nothing does smooth and relaxing like a 650. 
   
  Two very different things and either would have to be pried away from me (along with the Bifrost & Lyr.)  On SS, I'll say HE-400 picks up a lot of the articulation in the mids as HD650, but on Lyr the two become very different with HE-400 picking up a syrupy smooth flow.


----------



## ben_wood

hodjgy,
    I saw where you were thinking about getting a Valhalla amp and I've read your positive comments about the Asgard. I'm trying to decide between the Asgard and Valhalla to power my HD600s. Which amp in your opinion would be one to get? I would be using a Cambridge Audio 640C V.2 cd player as my source. Thanks for any insights you can offer.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





ben_wood said:


> hodjgy,
> I saw where you were thinking about getting a Valhalla amp and I've read your positive comments about the Asgard. I'm trying to decide between the Asgard and Valhalla to power my HD600s. Which amp in your opinion would be one to get? I would be using a Cambridge Audio 640C V.2 cd player as my source. Thanks for any insights you can offer.


 
   
  I haven't owned either Valhalla or Lyr, or even HD600, however given experience with Lyr, other SS amps, and HD650 I think I can probably give some input.
   
  The sound will be very different between either of those and comes down to the bigger philosophy of "do I want tube or SS sound?"   Neither is inherently "better" in that regard, it will come down purely to preference. 
   
  Both will of course power HD600, arguably higher voltage amps like Valhalla and Lyr will pair better with the impedance, but that is irrelevant compared to the sonic signature you want.  Over HD650, HD600 is a far more neutral and flat headphone, teetering toward analytical.  If you want to accentuate the drier, detailed, analytical nature of that headphone, SS would be the better pair for you to keep it as clean and true to source as possible.  If you want to "warm it up" a bit...smooth out some mids, roll the highs and lows off a bit more roundly, the tube amp would be the better bet.  You'll find an equal number of fans of either philosophy.
   
  And of course there's always Lyr which does a bit of both.  It's detailed due to the SS side, but has a warming, easy to listen to effect from the tube side. Compared to an SS amp though it's still much smoother, which I like.  It's all personal preference.


----------



## hodgjy

The Asgard and the Valhalla are said to be voiced very similarly.  A pretty thorough review of each amp head-to-head said the Asgard sounded better and had a wider soundstage. 
   
  I think the answer really comes down to your budget and if you want the ability to drive higher impedance headphones down the road, which the Valhalla will be able to do.  If the $100 is important to you, I say get the Asgard.  If you want the aesthetics of tubes, get the Valhalla.  I suspect the HD600s will sing nearly the same on either amp.
  Quote: 





ben_wood said:


> hodjgy,
> I saw where you were thinking about getting a Valhalla amp and I've read your positive comments about the Asgard. I'm trying to decide between the Asgard and Valhalla to power my HD600s. Which amp in your opinion would be one to get? I would be using a Cambridge Audio 640C V.2 cd player as my source. Thanks for any insights you can offer.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Asgard and the Valhalla are said to be voiced very similarly.  A pretty thorough review of each amp head-to-head said the Asgard sounded better and had a wider soundstage.
> 
> I think the answer really comes down to your budget and if you want the ability to drive higher impedance headphones down the road, which the Valhalla will be able to do.  If the $100 is important to you, I say get the Asgard.  If you want the aesthetics of tubes, get the Valhalla.  I suspect the HD600s will sing nearly the same on either amp.


 
   
  Voicing is probably similar, but SS will still sound like SS and tube will still sound like tube.  The 2nd order harmonic distortion that makes a tube a tube simply can't exist on SS.  Otherwise none of us would be bothering with tubes.  However that "tube-like-voicing" would explain why some folks seem to strongly dislike Asgard in favor of other SS amps.
   
  To throw the inverse into your statement: It could also depend on if you want the ability to drive LOWer impedance headphones down the line.  Valhalla is said to not play very well with orthos or K70x.  Asgard will (except the more power hungry orthos like HE-4, HE-5, HE-6 where only Lyr will do.)


----------



## ben_wood

Thanks to both hodgjy and IEMCrazy for your helpful replies! I'll probably go with the Asgard (the HD600s are almost certainly my "ultimate destination" headphones and the $100 difference in the prices of the amps is a factor for me at this time). Again, thanks to both of you for your help.


----------



## ben_wood

A change in plans! Today I found and bought a new Valhalla on eBay with an extra set of tubes for $308 shipped (from Georgia no less hodgjy). Man, I'm stoked!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





ben_wood said:


> A change in plans! Today I found and bought a new Valhalla on eBay with an extra set of tubes for $308 shipped (from Georgia no less hodgjy). Man, I'm stoked!


 
   
  Congrats!  I'm sure you'll like it!


----------



## ben_wood

Thanks, the tracking number says that the Valhalla arrives Wednesday!


----------



## Mutombo

Quote: 





ben_wood said:


> A change in plans! Today I found and bought a new Valhalla on eBay with an extra set of tubes for $308 shipped (from Georgia no less hodgjy). Man, I'm stoked!


 
   
  That's a great deal!


----------



## ben_wood

Quote: 





mutombo said:


> That's a great deal!


 
  Well, a couple of issues: there was no power cord ( I have a couple of spares around the house, so no big deal), no stick-on feet (I can get a set from Home Depot), no owner's manual ( I emailed Jason @ Schiit and he emailed me a downloadable copy) and the amp I got is the international model (230VAC). However Jason emailed me back with advice on which step-up transformer to get ( for less than $17). So the deal could have been better. The extra set of tubes was included.


----------



## hodgjy

That stinks.  Was all that made clear in the original eBay ad?  If not, I'd contact the seller about getting a discount.


----------



## ben_wood

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That stinks.  Was all that made clear in the original eBay ad?  If not, I'd contact the seller about getting a discount.


 
  No, it wasn't. I just sent the seller an email telling him my complaints and requesting a refund of $20. I think that would be a reasonable discount.


----------



## hodgjy

I think that is reasonable because it covers the cost of the transformer.


----------



## ben_wood

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I think that is reasonable because it covers the cost of the transformer.


 
  Yeah, I ordered the transformer from Amazon. Should arrive thur.-fri. time frame next week. Killing me to have to wait another week to start burning in the Valhalla!


----------



## Mutombo

Quote: 





ben_wood said:


> Well, a couple of issues: there was no power cord ( I have a couple of spares around the house, so no big deal), no stick-on feet (I can get a set from Home Depot), no owner's manual ( I emailed Jason @ Schiit and he emailed me a downloadable copy) and the amp I got is the international model (230VAC). However Jason emailed me back with advice on which step-up transformer to get ( for less than $17). So the deal could have been better. The extra set of tubes was included.


 
   
  Ah, bummer.  Hope the seller comes through with a refund to cover the cost of the transformer.


----------



## ben_wood

$20 refund issued! I feel a whole lot better about the seller and transaction now. Still have to go to Home Depot tomorrow and try to find some stick-on rubber feet (any suggestions would be welcomed). And will be waiting for the transformer from Amazon to arrive next week. Thanks for all of the help and concern, and thanks to Jason @ Schiit for the advice and support!


----------



## sperandeo

I have the Lyr. I've tube rolled it and am happy with it.


----------



## orangedrink888

Have an Asgard. Loving ever minute of music


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes I have Asgard and I love it every minutes of it!!


----------



## hodgjy

Glad to hear the refund was issued and there is a happy ending. Well, the agony of not being able to listen yet isn't so happy, but it seems to have worked out well.

Any rubber feet set would work. Don't spend over $4 on a set. I went to the mom and pop hardware store in my neighborhood to buy larger feet because the stock ones were kinda small for my liking. Cost me about $2-3.



ben_wood said:


> $20 refund issued! I feel a whole lot better about the seller and transaction now. Still have to go to Home Depot tomorrow and try to find some stick-on rubber feet (any suggestions would be welcomed). And will be waiting for the transformer from Amazon to arrive next week. Thanks for all of the help and concern, and thanks to Jason @ Schiit for the advice and support!


----------



## ben_wood

Thanks for the advice on the feet hodgjy!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





ben_wood said:


> Well, a couple of issues: there was no power cord ( I have a couple of spares around the house, so no big deal), no stick-on feet (I can get a set from Home Depot), no owner's manual ( I emailed Jason @ Schiit and he emailed me a downloadable copy) and the amp I got is the international model (230VAC). However Jason emailed me back with advice on which step-up transformer to get ( for less than $17). So the deal could have been better. The extra set of tubes was included.


 
   
  That's awful about the transformer but I'm glad Jason was able to set you up with the right product to get it going anyway!  I agree on feet.  Lots of people "upgrade" their feet to give some height.  I don't see a need to do so, but it's all preference.  Sticky feet are generally cheap, though the clear ones I normally see aren't as malliable as the black ones Schiit supplies stock.  there are bigger nicer feet out there like the 3M IsolateIT! line if you prefer more height than the little stock nubs.
   
  The power cord you're better off without.  I presume Schiit gets them from Monoprice in bulk.  Nothing wrong with Monoprice, but some of their stuff is a little out of spec.  The NEMA plugs on the 115v version don't fit as tight in the socket as I'd like and could get knocked out if you don't have the back of the unit out of the way, as I don't.  I bought a Cables 2 Go short cord with a right angle wall plug (I only needed a foot or two to go to a short power strip) and the NEMA plug fits much more tightly in the back of the amp.  No chance of knocking it out.


----------



## Vargtass

Proud and happy Lyr-owner here. 
   
  Had some issues with my first Lyr, but Jason was just about the most helpful person I've ever had the pleasure of talking to. HAT OFF! 
   
  Now I'm pondering the Mjolnir. I'm just not sure about what the sound will be like compared to the Lyr.


----------



## Kremer930

I have been holding out for the statement gear but gee that new intermediate balanced amp is tempting. The HE6 love power. I really hope that the statement amp has even more....


----------



## paradoxper

Very cool thread.
   
  Owner of Bifrost and Lyr rolled, of course.
   
  I'm also tempted by the Mjolnir but I don't think the Lyr will lack behind the Mjolnir in the sound department. So holding out for the statement.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I have been holding out for the statement gear but gee that new intermediate balanced amp is tempting. The HE6 love power. I really hope that the statement amp has even more....


 
   
  I was about to say there's no need for balanced anything unless you need insane amounts of power.  Then I saw the word "HE6".  The only headphone even Lyr is below the rated 8W power.  Mjolnir it is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Very cool thread.
> 
> Owner of Bifrost and Lyr rolled, of course.
> 
> I'm also tempted by the Mjolnir but I don't think the Lyr will lack behind the Mjolnir in the sound department. So holding out for the statement.


 
   
  My thinking on Mjolnir is, beyond pandering to the "must have balanced" crowd, is that it effectively is a Lyr with SS convenience instead of messing with tubes.  The FAQ says that the tubes were the only way to get the kind of gain required, but if you split that power in half via balanced, it would make sense you could do it without crazy gain on the tubes. 
   
  Statement should be more interesting since I expect a single ended out as well.   However I also suspect it'll be a full blown preamp component, not just a headamp.  That's sheer speculation on my part based on the hints that it'll be totally different, and based on the idea that Lyr played with the notion of pre-amp first.
   
  But I consider myself at end-game with Lyr.  What the heck else does one need?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I was about to say there's no need for balanced anything unless you need insane amounts of power.  Then I saw the word "HE6".  The only headphone even Lyr is below the rated 8W power.  Mjolnir it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, I remember Jason saying the Lyr with variety of tubes (top tier) scales nicely. (Which it does)
  So the difference would be in noise. You can use the Mjolnir with sensitive phones or "blow" them up with Lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And then there's the whole 8w of power for the HE-6. (May as well buy the Dark Star)
   
  I guess if you're not into investing in tubes and like the whole ability to change the sound signature, then sure, Mjolnir it is.
   
  I'm also more interested in the Statement offerings, the hybrid offerrings more than the SS. But that's a year away.
   
  I'm way curious to see how the Mjolnir or even the Statement SS compare against the Dark Star or even the Beta 22.


----------



## TC Johnson

Greetings fellow Schiit-heads.  I am enjoying my Asgard with the AKG K550s i picked up to pair with the amp, but have a quick question about volume.  Has anyone made use of the RCA attenuators to reduce the input power and make it easier to use a bit more of what the amp has to offer at more than 9 o'clock on the volume knob.  I feed a line out signal from a PCDP and line out from my ipod and would truly harm my ears if I boosted the volume much past that mark.
   
  Also, I sometimes need a bit more isolation than the K550s provide, and need a good IEM recommendation.  The AKGs sound great for bedtime listening, but have a bit more leakage than my wife would like.
   
  Thanks in advance for the replies.
   
  TC


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





tc johnson said:


> Greetings fellow Schiit-heads.  I am enjoying my Asgard with the AKG K550s i picked up to pair with the amp, but have a quick question about volume.  Has anyone made use of the RCA attenuators to reduce the input power and make it easier to use a bit more of what the amp has to offer at more than 9 o'clock on the volume knob.  I feed a line out signal from a PCDP and line out from my ipod and would truly harm my ears if I boosted the volume much past that mark.
> 
> Also, I sometimes need a bit more isolation than the K550s provide, and need a good IEM recommendation.  The AKGs sound great for bedtime listening, but have a bit more leakage than my wife would like.
> 
> ...


 
   
  9 o'clock?  You get to 9 o'clock?  You spoiled kids these days with your low voltage input sources.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On my Lyr I used to get to 9 o'clock but when I moved to a Squeezebox Touch and used fixed 100% (bit-perfect) volume, I'm lucky if I get the volume knob between 7-8 o'clock.  It's barely beyond the bottom.  The only way around that, for me, is to drop the digital volume on the SBT which of course introduces artifacts.  That's been a big debate for me since I think, now, that SBT operates at 24-bit, so for 16-bit audio I'd get to drop 12db of volume or so before digital gain has any effect on SQ.  
   
  However, one thing I know for sure, is that SBT digital gain control in 24 bit space is going to be less damaging to the SQ than some cheap resistors attenuating the source output. Yuck.  As long as you can adequately control volume, it's probably best to leave the signal alone.  I did have to resort to digital gain on my O2 because the bottom of the volume pot has nasty channel imbalance issues.  But I've had no imbalance on the Lyr, and I'm sure the same can be said for Asgard.  Those Blue Velvet pots are nice...
   
  As for IEMs.  There's a lot of options.  What price point sound signature, etc are you looking for?  IEMs range from $5 cheapies to multi-thousand dollar customs so it'll require some more specifics!


----------



## ashbeowulf

Greetings  Just got my Schiit Asgard today in the mail and wow liking it so far! Big upgrade for me from the Millet Starving Student Hybrid I'm coming from. Glad to hear the warmness, and the amp seems to have opened up the bottom end on my Denon 5000s much more. Really liking it  Now, next step upgrading to an ODAC from the D3 I have currently heh


----------



## ben_wood

A few questions for Valhalla owners or tube experts in general: I just got a Valhalla and am a tube and headphone novice (also just got a new pair of HD 600s). First, what is the preferred method of burning in a tube device like the Valhalla? How long does  burn in take? Do tubes, as they age go bad gradually or just stop working  (see I told you I was a noob!)? And what is the best method of breaking in the HD600s? Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

Best way to burn in tubes, amps, headphones, etc: just use them normally.  Subtle changes will occur as the devices mature.  There's no need to do anything fancy or specific.
   
  Yes, tubes wear out and will eventually die.  They normally last thousands of hours under normal use.  However, they can fail unpredictably at any time.  They do need to be replaced.  They normally slowly degrade and you will notice a slight decrease in performance.  If things seem lifeless, intermittent, or weak, those are normal signs it's time to replace tubes.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Schiit is awesome!!!!! Jason kindly sent me some free tubes to tube roll with and I'm going too do a write up on them. So far I'm liking the  6BZ7 over everything, warmer than the 6N1P but a little less involved in the midrange. the Stock tubes are kind of middle ground, the "Neutral" of the three.


----------



## totto2222

proud schiit owner
  i have a lyr rolled (of course) amperex heerlen orange globes paired with a bitfrost feeding my hd 650"s
  to my old ears this pairing is like audio nirvana


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





totto2222 said:


> proud schiit owner
> i have a lyr rolled (of course) amperex heerlen orange globes paired with a bitfrost feeding my hd 650"s
> to my old ears this pairing is like audio nirvana


 
   
  The OGs were my favourite tubes for the HD650 too. I owned this exact rig. Killer sound.


----------



## mikek200

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The OGs were my favourite tubes for the HD650 too. I owned this exact rig. Killer sound.


 
   
  Yes,add me to that list as well,the OG's & the 7308's ,are a great combination.


----------



## finnbah

I'm new to Head-Fi (sorry if I am posting this in the wrong thread - I thought it seemed like this was the most relevant thread for my questions) and am currently looking at purchasing a headphone amp or DAC (unfortunately I can not afford to buy both at the same time) for my Sennheiser HD 650s. This will be my first purchase in an attempt to improve the sound I'm getting from the 650s and from what I've read here and a few other places Schiit seems to be quite good (I also really like the way they look, though obviously how they sound is far more important to me).
  Right now I am using my computer (macbook pro - ALAC from my CDs) as the main source and an old technics amplifier to power the headphones (which I imagine isn't very great), so I guess I'm just wondering what would be the best component to buy first - Headphone amp or DAC (Bifrost)? And if it's a headphone amp, which one? Right now, my budget only really extends to the Valhalla, so it's between that and the Asgard. I have read through this thread and there were a few comments about the Valhalla being the better amplifier for higher impedance headphones, but given my lack of experience with tubes (or really any headphone amplifiers) I was leaning towards the Asgard and then in a few months when I could afford it, I'd get the Bifrost. Anyway, hopefully this makes sense and thanks for any advice you guys can give.


----------



## WhiteCrow

I would go for amp. You need an amp to plug your dac into anyways...well some type of output with RCA in to come from the DAC. the Valhalla is paired well with the HD650....if I'm remembering correctly.


----------



## grokit

You don't need "tube experience" with the Valhalla, as it is not meant for tube rolling. Just plug them in and you're done.


----------



## hodgjy

X2.  What they said.  Great advice.
  Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> . the Valhalla is paired well with the HD650....if I'm remembering correctly.


 
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> You don't need "tube experience" with the Valhalla, as it is not meant for tube rolling. Just plug them in and you're done.


----------



## scottv50

New Schiit owner here too. Just got a USB Bifrost and a Lyr. Running them with the ALO Audio Jena cabled HD650's. Very nice so far, but also have a set of HE-500's on the way.


----------



## brainbucket

Bifrost on the way, can't wait.


----------



## fr45er

1st post after lurking for a long time....
   
  Bifrost + Valhalla delivered today and using them with HD-650s.  
   
  It`s a big improvement over my E7,  and I was pretty happy with that tbh.


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





scottv50 said:


> New Schiit owner here too. Just got a USB Bifrost and a Lyr. Running them with the ALO Audio Jena cabled HD650's. Very nice so far, but also have a set of HE-500's on the way.


 

 Congrats, I hope you love them as much as I do.


----------



## paradoxper

I really hope you consider getting into tube rolling. If you have the funds, it's a fun journey. Congrats as well!


----------



## scottv50

Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> Congrats, I hope you love them as much as I do.


 

 HE-500's arrived today. Had a quick listen and have them on burning in. Will let them run overnight and then spend some time with them tomorrow.


----------



## scottv50

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I really hope you consider getting into tube rolling. If you have the funds, it's a fun journey. Congrats as well!


 

 Have already started researching! Want to listen to the stock Lyr tubes with the HE-500 for a while first, then will look to make a change.


----------



## finnbah

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> X2.  What they said.  Great advice.


 
  Thanks for the advice guys, though I ended up getting the Asgard purely because I forgot how much shipping is to Australia, which pushed the Valhalla to a little more than I wanted to spend. I just got the Asgard in the mail today though and am very happy with it so far - my headphones have never sounded so good.


----------



## billyjayadi

hi !
 want to listen to your advice guys since i get an offer for early batch asgard  (finished 5 year warranty)
 the seller already send it once in early mid of 2011 to schiit since he got a buzzing problem when pair it with IEM
 the question is how can i know if the asgard are already installed with relay and safe from DC Voltage issue ?
 Will pair it with HD600
 Thanks !


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





billyjayadi said:


> hi !
> want to listen to your advice guys since i get an offer for early batch asgard  (finished 5 year warranty)
> the seller already send it once in early mid of 2011 to schiit since he got a buzzing problem when pair it with IEM
> the question is how can i know if the asgard are already installed with relay and safe from DC Voltage issue ?
> ...


 
 Asgard has a 20 second relay-switched delayed output and immediate relay mute on turn-off.
So if you hear it, you have it, if not, you don't. (You probably don't have it)


----------



## hodgjy

To be completely safe, ask the seller to give you the serial number, and then email Jason and ask if that particular unit has the relay installed.
  Quote: 





billyjayadi said:


> hi !
> want to listen to your advice guys since i get an offer for early batch asgard  (finished 5 year warranty)
> the seller already send it once in early mid of 2011 to schiit since he got a buzzing problem when pair it with IEM
> the question is how can i know if the asgard are already installed with relay and safe from DC Voltage issue ?
> ...


----------



## ben_wood

Question about my Valhalla amp. When I power down the amp after an extended listening session, the power indicator light stays lit for probably 5 minutes or so, slowly dimming (like capacitors are slowly discharging). Is this normal?


----------



## Kommando

Blown away with the performance of the Asgard with my Grado RS2i's, everything sounds very clear and musical.


----------



## wberghofer

ben_wood said:


> Is this normal?




Yes, it is, don’t worry.

Werner.


----------



## kclink

I'm new to this audiophile world and am SLOWLY learning more and more everyday. But I am just confused as hell with Schiit. I dove into the world of quality audio with my purchase of ATH-M50's. Hearing the cans for the first time was it for me. I wanted quality music. My next buy is a computer audio set up. I already have a great portable audio setup. I am looking into buying the Swan T200B active desktop speakers. But I want a dedicated DAC and headphone amp combo as well. I was thinking about the Valhalla/Bifrost combo. I am confused because I don't know if this combo will pair with desktop speakers. Can I somehow connect this combo to the speakers I'm looking at? I didn't see anyone comment about connecting any Schiit products to speakers. Another question. Can I use my computer as my source? I have lossless audio on my computer. And one last question, Is this Valhalla/Bifrost combo overkill for my headphones and Swan speakers? These are probably stupid questions but I could really use some help. Like I said, I'm new to this ****! Thanks


----------



## Maxvla

Sure, just take a splitter off the unbalanced outputs to the unbalanced input RCA on the back of the speakers.


----------



## Rope

I have consealed the truth for 1 year and eight months.  I am a Schiitoholic, my Schiit of choice is the Lyr and Bifrost.  I'm currently in a 12 step program attempting to kick my pile of Schiit.  Wish me luck, since I feel a relapse about to happen.
   
   
   
   
  Tip for Lyr owners:  Purchase a very low microphonic, closely matched pair of tubes.  Yes, the will set you back some bank, but it will reduce noise floor to vertually zero with low impedance cans.


----------



## Kremer930

How long have we got til the Moljnir ships? I haven't been paying too much attention as I only want to be tempted by the statement rig.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> How long have we got til the Moljnir ships? I haven't been paying too much attention as I only want to be tempted by the statement rig.


 
  They ship out end of June. I really hope the statement rig is released before the end of the year.


----------



## ben_wood

Quote: 





wberghofer said:


> Yes, it is, don’t worry.
> Werner.


 
  Thanks Werner.


----------



## Penarin

Just got the latest Audi Advisor in the mail and it was nice to see some Schiit in there.


----------



## MattTCG

Just wondering how many "turn off your Schitt" when you are not using it and how many leave it on? Just curious.


----------



## paradoxper

Lyr + Bifrost always off when not in use.


----------



## MattTCG

I feel kinda like I'm leaving the iron on if I forget to turn the amp off. Should I be turning off the Bifrost as well?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I feel kinda like I'm leaving the iron on if I forget to turn the amp off. Should I be turning off the Bifrost as well?


 
  I've only ever left SS gear on all the time, but if the amp is off why leave the DAC on.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I feel kinda like I'm leaving the iron on if I forget to turn the amp off. Should I be turning off the Bifrost as well?


 

 I do the opposite lol. I leave amp on (class A takes time to warm up) and turn off the DAC occasionally. In general, constantly turning on/off SS amps degrades their capacitors over time. It's quite rough on them.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





penarin said:


> Just got the latest Audi Advisor in the mail and it was nice to see some Schiit in there.


 
   
  I love the Audio Advisor magazine and it was nice to see the Schiit products. However, I think that they market cables in that magazine a little too much, IMHO.


----------



## brunk

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


> I love the Audio Advisor magazine and it was nice to see the Schiit products. However, I think that they market cables in that magazine a little too much, IMHO.


 

 Of course they do, that's the biggest profit margin item there is. 50%+ of a cable is pure profit, and that's to the retailer, not the manufacturer, so you can imagine just how cheap cables really are.


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Of course they do, that's the biggest profit margin item there is. 50%+ of a cable is pure profit, and that's to the retailer, not the manufacturer, so you can imagine just how cheap cables really are.


 
   
  Good point. Still, just a little over the top for me.


----------



## hodgjy

Amps, CD players, and DACs turned off and unplugged from the wall when not in use. I don't mind waiting up to 30 minutes for my gear to warm up and sound optimal.



matttcg said:


> Just wondering how many "turn off your Schitt" when you are not using it and how many leave it on? Just curious.


----------



## Rope

All my gear (traditional HT, HP) is connected to a Tripp Lite LCR2400.  When not in use, everything is powered down and the main switch on the Tripp Lite is off.  Takes a few minutes to bring everything back to life, but considering the power saved and wear on unused gear, I think it's worth the little bit of effort.


----------



## Penarin

Due to the heat it puts out, and the heat outside (it's 100 degrees today), I always leave my Asgard off.  I also try to be green (read cheap) when it comes to electronics.  Still, if I'm going to do some serious listening I flip my gear on 30 minutes before I'm ready to rock.


----------



## Penarin

And speaking of Audio Advisor, whoever puts that catalog together really likes girls with dark hair.


----------



## brunk

Back on topic - How many of you have already pre-ordered or is waiting for statement gear? I have pre-ordered and I'm sure I'll be satisfied, statement gear or otherwise.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





brunk said:


> Back on topic - How many of you have already pre-ordered or is waiting for statement gear? I have pre-ordered and I'm sure I'll be satisfied, statement gear or otherwise.


 
  Might pre-order or wait for impressions of the Mjolnir and Gungnir. I've been waiting (continually) for the statement gear.


----------



## aqsw

are the lyr and audeze lcd2s a good fit?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





aqsw said:


> are the lyr and audeze lcd2s a good fit?


 
  I find the Lyr to pair with the LCD-2 wonderfully.


----------



## 054k4

Quote: 





imperialx said:


> Yeah, I heard that too, but I wonder if there's anyone here with a Asgard/LCD-2 combo who has some impressions?


 
  This was asked a long while ago but no one really replied... I am very interested with the Asgard and I know it pairs very well with my HD-600; but my endgame (so far) is the LCD-2 and with low funds, I don't see myself buying something a more expensive amp for a long time.


----------



## paradoxper

I think the Asgard is best with low-impedance headphones. However,
it drove the LCD-2 adequately and sounded good. I would also say
I found the Asgard to sound much "better" with the HifiMan offerings


----------



## 054k4

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I think the Asgard is best with low-impedance headphones. However,
> it drove the LCD-2 adequately and sounded good. I would also say
> I found the Asgard to sound much "better" with the HifiMan offerings


 
  That's odd, I heard the opposite. That the LCD-2 is better than the HE-500 in the Asgard. But maybe I'll try to find the Lyr used...


----------



## Llloyd

I did not find the asgard to be anything other than average with the HE-500, maybe slightly below competition in its price range.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





054k4 said:


> That's odd, I heard the opposite. That the LCD-2 is better than the HE-500 in the Asgard. But maybe I'll try to find the Lyr used...


 
  While I think the LCD-2 is the better overall can, I found the HE-500 the more efficient and blended more with Asgard in synergy, Both are good choices either way.
   
  To my ears the LCD-2 is amazing with the Lyr and with the LCD-3 slightly less moving.


----------



## 054k4

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> While I think the LCD-2 is the better overall can, I found the HE-500 the more efficient and blended more with Asgard in synergy, Both are good choices either way.
> 
> To my ears the LCD-2 is amazing with the Lyr and with the LCD-3 slightly less moving.


 
  The more I'm reading about the Lyr, the more I'm falling in love... that and it falls into my price range if I buy used. Does the Lyr match well with relatively high impedance headphones like the HD600 ?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





054k4 said:


> The more I'm reading about the Lyr, the more I'm falling in love... that and it falls into my price range if I buy used. Does the Lyr match well with relatively high impedance headphones like the HD600 ?


 
  If you are buying used wait until after Mjolnir is released, it's a sure bet you'll get a great deal on a Lyr. The Lyr matched very well with my HD650 and to some the 600 is the better of the two.
  So you should get some fine enjoyment out of them.


----------



## 054k4

Thanks for the tip ! I'll take your advice and just wait, but that will be kinda hard for me .


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





054k4 said:


> Thanks for the tip ! I'll take your advice and just wait, but that will be kinda hard for me .


 
  I'd be remissed if I didn't mention Valhalla as well. You can now tube roll with it, I am thinking of picking one up for some fun. It's not at all suited for ortho's though
  so maybe the Lyr is your best bet.


----------



## imackler

I hear lots of people say that the Asgard is best with low impedence phones. How do you all like it with the HD600/650? I actually have both headphones currently and they are driven splendidly by my AHA-120 but it seems silly to have a portable amp when I don't use it portable. Is there a general consensus that the Valhalla is better than the Senn phones than the Asgard? I like the price point of the Asgard more (obviously) and as classy as the the Valhalla is, I'd rather not to have to explain what a tube amp is every time someone comes into my office...


----------



## TnTMaN

Hi All,
   
  I've ordered a pair of T70p and Westone 4R.
   
  I need a desktop amp and dac and was looking at the Bifrost and Lyr combo.
   
  Would this make a good matching for my 2 headsets?
   
  I am considering the LCD-2 or HD800 at a later stage as well.
   
  Anyone has thoughts on the combo?
   
  Cheers,
 ET


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I hear lots of people say that the Asgard is best with low impedence phones. How do you all like it with the HD600/650? I actually have both headphones currently and they are driven splendidly by my AHA-120 but it seems silly to have a portable amp when I don't use it portable. Is there a general consensus that the Valhalla is better than the Senn phones than the Asgard? I like the price point of the Asgard more (obviously) and as classy as the the Valhalla is, I'd rather not to have to explain what a tube amp is every time someone comes into my office...


 
  Valhalla  was better than Asgard with HD650. But both work splendid. Also, the Valhalla and Asgard appeal to different people for varied reasons.
  It really comes down to your sound preference. Just my opinion though.


----------



## paradoxper

I'll jus add that more people need to interject their opinions here. haha


----------



## 054k4

Quote: 





tntman said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I've ordered a pair of T70p and Westone 4R.
> 
> ...


 
  Headphonia said that that the Lyr isn't that great with IEM since there is a substantial amount of noise unless the IEM is inefficient. I don't own the Bifrost or Lyr yet, but I am pretty much in the same boat with buying the pair now for my HD600 and the LCD-2 in the future.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





054k4 said:


> Headphonia said that that the Lyr isn't that great with IEM since there is a substantial amount of noise unless the IEM is inefficient. I don't own the Bifrost or Lyr yet, but I am pretty much in the same boat with buying the pair now for my HD600 and the LCD-2 in the future.


 
  Of course it's not great with IEM's, its was made for ortho's. If you're going to buy an LCD-2
  then the Valhalla is out of the question. It doesn't do ortho's.


----------



## LugBug1

Enjoying my new Asgard, mating well with my HE-500's. Better than I thought, quite a nice match. No need for a Lyr with them after'all, which is what I was going to look at next. Cool!
  Very punchy sound, seems to have brought them more forward. less liquid and laid back- more textures now. Good soundstage for SS. It's a warm amp (literally! bloody warm! I won't need the heating on this winter) with nice deep bass and no hint of sib at the top. Busy drying my socks and underpants on it, suppose you could call it a hybrid in that sense


----------



## Rope

I use my portable rig mostly with IEMs, although when the urge strikes, I have been known to connect them to the Lyr/Bifrost combo with decent results.  Granted, the Lyr was not designed for IEM use, however it is possible and produces reasonable results with a little care and tweaking.
   
   Also, I've had stellar results with low impedance (Denon AH-MD5000) HPs.  Yes, I realize Jason has stated that Lyr is not recommened with low impedance HPs, although that has not been my experience.


----------



## hodgjy

I just placed an order for the "new" Valhalla."  I've always loved how the Asgard drives my DT990/600s (which my Trafomatic surprisingly does not do well), so I figured the Valhalla would do it even better.  Now that it's rollable and has an upgraded sound, I figured it was time.


----------



## hodgjy

I just got my new Valhalla today.  It still has a lot of burning in to do, but so far I am very impressed.  It drives my DT990s better than the Asgard, which in turn drove them better than my Trafomatic.  The sound needs to burn in and mature some, but it's off to a good start!  Very happy.


----------



## hodgjy

Once again, excellent customer service from Jason and Schiit.  My new Valhalla developed and channel imbalance that follows the tubes when switched.  A quick email to Jason, followed by an even quicker response from him, and replacement tubes will be in the mail tomorrow.


----------



## Mr.Tom

My Valhalla arrives in the morning. If it sounds better then my X-CanV3(pinkfloyd modded), I'll be selling the V3 and my Zero.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Also, Is the Bifrost the best thing going for $350.(these days)?? Any other killer DAC's being made for under $400.?


----------



## hodgjy

I am very fond of my V-DAC II.  Excellent all around.
   
  Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> Also, Is the Bifrost the best thing going for $350.(these days)?? Any other killer DAC's being made for under $400.?


----------



## Sonic Defender

Even reading in other audio forums around the Internet the Bifrost seems really well regarded and at that price point it seems difficult to beat. The fact that it can be upgraded is a big plus, and as well I notice that the Schiit products hold their value quite well. I sold my Valhalla to a head-fier who paired it with a Bifrost and his 650s and he says the combination is astounding.


----------



## Iostream

My box O Schiit is on it's way. Bitfrost and Lyr coming.  Initially I will pair them with K701s, though I am considering an upgrade to HE-500s. Not sure if it is worth it, since I have been very happy with my K701s for several years.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





iostream said:


> My box O Schiit is on it's way. Bitfrost and Lyr coming.  Initially I will pair them with K701s, though I am considering an upgrade to HE-500s. Not sure if it is worth it, since I have been very happy with my K701s for several years.


 
  I've never heard the K701s, but going from the HD650 to the HE-500 - even with only an E9 amp - has been a stunning change in sound quality.  I've never heard instrument separation like this before.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





iostream said:


> My box O Schiit is on it's way. Bitfrost and Lyr coming.  Initially I will pair them with K701s, though I am considering an upgrade to HE-500s. Not sure if it is worth it, since I have been very happy with my K701s for several years.


 
   
  You might find the K701 to sound better than ever out of the Lyr, I thought they were made for each other.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





grokit said:


> You might find the K701 to sound better than ever out of the Lyr, I thought they were made for each other.


 
  I agree with this statement 100%.  Of all the cans I own and use with the Lyr, the K701s showed the greatest gain in SQ.


----------



## davewave

hodgjy said:


> I just placed an order for the "new" Valhalla."  I've always loved how the Asgard drives my DT990/600s (which my Trafomatic surprisingly does not do well), so I figured the Valhalla would do it even better.  Now that it's rollable and has an upgraded sound, I figured it was time.


Hi all
Sorry but I haven't checked in for a while. I'm the proud owner of a Valhalla, bought about a year ago. It pairs well with my HD580s modded to HD600 with cables and grills. 

So I'm a bit confused by this talk of a "new" Valhalla. Did Schiit change it?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





davewave said:


> Hi all
> Sorry but I haven't checked in for a while. I'm the proud owner of a Valhalla, bought about a year ago. It pairs well with my HD580s modded to HD600 with cables and grills.
> So I'm a bit confused by this talk of a "new" Valhalla. Did Schiit change it?


 
  Yep. http://www.head-fi.org/t/617351/schiit-valhalla-now-with-100-more-rollability


----------



## schaaf

I'm looking at picking up a new valhalla, but I'm confused about rolling tubes in it.
  Would you have roll all 4 tubes at once, matched? Or just the two in the front?


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> I'm looking at picking up a new valhalla, but I'm confused about rolling tubes in it.
> Would you have roll all 4 tubes at once, matched? Or just the two in the front?


 
  I'm told by Jason, that just the input tube, as the power tubes have less effect. Or there's not too many to pick from.
   
  But I've found at least 5 different 6n6p's out there.
   
  Even the first version of the Valhalla could roll the 6n1p variants. I've heard vastly different sound from 6n1p, 6n1p-eb, 6n1p-vi. the later two give a very fast paced and forward sound(but never bright). I've settled on some late 1968 6n1p from the Novosibirsk plant, as they have a very full more tube like sound.


----------



## schaaf

I know next to nothing about tubes. 
Are you saying there aren't many options for rolling power tubes, or the other ones? (output tubes maybe?)

Tube numbers are very confusing to me. Is there a resource for learning more about them?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> I know next to nothing about tubes.
> Are you saying there aren't many options for rolling power tubes, or the other ones? (output tubes maybe?)
> Tube numbers are very confusing to me. Is there a resource for learning more about them?


 
  I think it would be easier for you to just understand that while the Valhalla is rollable, it's limited overall.
  Yes, power tubes are limited and are less dramatic in changes to sound.
   
  Don't think of them as numbers. Think of them as tube types.
  Don't roll outside the compatible Valhalla tube type compatibility.
   
   6N1P dual triode input, 6N6P dual triode output (The power tube), The 6N1P are rollable to
  6DJ8, E88CC, 6922, 6B27. and similar types. (Just like Lyr)


----------



## Mr.Tom

Google would be a good place to start. At one time in this country there where 1000's of types of tubes, but the US schiit canned tubes for transistors in the 60's, by the end of the 70's you'd be hard pressed to find a consumer product that used a tube. In Russia, they really believed we'ed nuke them at some point, so to avoid a complete loss of electronics(from a EMP blast), they stayed with tubes for military. thru the 70's~80's Russia's GDP was 70% military, therefore they have a lot of surplus tubes(millions), and a lot of them are very nice!


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> I know next to nothing about tubes.
> Are you saying there aren't many options for rolling power tubes, or the other ones? (output tubes maybe?)
> Tube numbers are very confusing to me. Is there a resource for learning more about them?


 

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html    -   Joes Tube Lore.
http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm  - Brent Jesse. Excellent resource for buying tubes.
   
  and, if you have a couple of days to spare, there is an excellent thread on this forum specific to Schiit tube rolling.. http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## trothad2

I am finally a proud owner of a new Schiit Asgard and cant believe i waited so long to get one.  Currently they are powering my HD598's and sound very nice.  Wondering though would introducing a bifrost change much.  Going from pc>cheap logitech USB DAC>Asgard>hd598's.  Also i am looking into purchasing the denon D2000 would the Asgard be a nice complementing amp for those?


----------



## hodgjy

Since your usb DAC is external, that is definitely an upgrade over the internal soundcard.  IMHO, differences between DACs are subtle.  Dollars and DACs follow the law of diminishing returns.  Going from a $5 DAC to a $350 DAC is noticeable, but going from a $350 one to a $500 isn't all that noticeable, and going from a $500 to a $1000 is subtle at best. 
   
  Where am I going with this?  We pay big bucks for small differences and subtleties.  If you are happy with your current DAC, going to the Bifrost won't blow your mind.  If you are unhappy with your current DAC, the subtleties might make all the difference.
   
  Quote: 





trothad2 said:


> I am finally a proud owner of a new Schiit Asgard and cant believe i waited so long to get one.  Currently they are powering my HD598's and sound very nice.  Wondering though would introducing a bifrost change much.  Going from pc>cheap logitech USB DAC>Asgard>hd598's.  Also i am looking into purchasing the denon D2000 would the Asgard be a nice complementing amp for those?


----------



## Iostream

Got my schiit today.  I am impressed. Going to leave them on overnight to settle in, but initial listening was great.  I will report a bit more once I have had some time with the setup.  At this point I think my setup might stay as is for a while.  The K701s sound great with this schiit, and I am not sure I can start justify dropping $700 on the HE-500s.


----------



## jono454

Quote: 





iostream said:


> My box O Schiit is on it's way. Bitfrost and Lyr coming.  Initially I will pair them with K701s, though I am considering an upgrade to HE-500s. Not sure if it is worth it, since I have been very happy with my K701s for several years.


 
   
  Proud owner of a Bifrost here. Noticing slight changes over burn-in time.
   
  K702s sound great out of my Bifrost + EF5


----------



## hodgjy

For those of you with Valhallas, is your amp overly sensitive to any differences in tubes?  In my amp, I have three pairs of supposedly "matched on tube tester" preamp tubes, but when plugged into the Valhalla, there are channel imbalances.  When I flop the tubes in the channels, the imbalance follows the tubes.  The most severe mismatch is in my 6992 pair, which give me no problems in my other amps.  So, obviously, the tubes aren't perfectly matched, but I can't imagine just how sensitive the amp is the small differences.
   
  Any ideas about this?


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> For those of you with Valhallas, is your amp overly sensitive to any differences in tubes?  In my amp, I have three pairs of supposedly "matched on tube tester" preamp tubes, but when plugged into the Valhalla, there are channel imbalances.  When I flop the tubes in the channels, the imbalance follows the tubes.  The most severe mismatch is in my 6992 pair, which give me no problems in my other amps.  So, obviously, the tubes aren't perfectly matched, but I can't imagine just how sensitive the amp is the small differences.
> 
> Any ideas about this?


 
  Yes! And I think this is the case with any OTL tube amp. I had the same thing and reversed the power tubes to offset the different levels. I guess if the amp used one tube(or 10 tubes)it would be less off an issue.


----------



## Mr.Tom

And for the recored, I'm a pig in Schiit with a Valhalla & Biforst


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks for your input.  It has to be the case, but in my other OTL amp, the 6992 tubes seem matched, but there is a night and day difference in the Valhalla.  Weird.
  Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> Yes! And I think this is the case with any OTL tube amp. I had the same thing and reversed the power tubes to offset the different levels. I guess if the amp used one tube(or 10 tubes)it would be less off an issue.


----------



## schaaf

Well, the delivery notification came in so I raced home to plug the Valhalla in and get some impressions. 
   
  It's making a huge difference already. 
   
  Lossless/various mix of 320kbps > iMac > crappy cables > Valhalla > HD650
   
  The soundstage actually seems to have decreased slightly. The separation is still there and great. The impact is the biggest thing. Drums sound like drums, not muffled bangs. Cymbals are crisp. The bass is finally there. It's enough for me. Vocals are sweet and sound exactly like I want them to. The highs seem a little shrill at this point, but again this is only after about 25 min of run time. I'll let the amp burn in for a while and come back to see what (if anything) has happened. 
   
  Question that may be dumb:
  Do the headphones actually have to be plugged in to the amp while it burns in or can the amp just run some music at the listening volume without actually playing through anything?
   
  So far it's pretty sweet. I wish the tubes would glow more, but I think I was expecting them to be brighter than they actually are!
   
   
  S-


----------



## hodgjy

You will always want to have a load on the tubes, so best to keep headphones plugged in.  But, don't just burn it in while not listening.  Listen while it burns in.  Changes are subtle at most.
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Question that may be dumb:
> Do the headphones actually have to be plugged in to the amp while it burns in or can the amp just run some music at the listening volume without actually playing through anything?


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





schaaf said:


> The highs seem a little shrill at this point, but again this is only after about 25 min of run time.  S-


 
   
  Mine came to life and started to bloom on the third day.


----------



## schaaf

Alright - what's the accepted or safe practice for plugging headphones in / turning on the amp. 
   
  I thought I did it correctly last night. Source was off. Turned amp on with the volume knob all the way down. Let it warm up for about 1 min, plugged 650's in *POP* *CRACKLE*    Schiit! What? I listened to them for a while, and while they don't appear to be damaged, I'm a little worried about it. I wasn't wearing them when I plugged them in, but I could hear it from where they were sitting. It was LOUD. 
   
  So, what did I do wrong?


----------



## hodgjy

I don't think you did anything wrong.  It was probably one of the tubes settling in.  Tubes have been known to pop and ping while they warm up.  Usually, it's not too loud through the headphones, but sometimes it can be.
   
  However, it's usually best to turn on source, plug in headphones, then turn on tube amp.  But, what you did should not have caused any problems.
   
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Alright - what's the accepted or safe practice for plugging headphones in / turning on the amp.
> 
> I thought I did it correctly last night. Source was off. Turned amp on with the volume knob all the way down. Let it warm up for about 1 min, plugged 650's in *POP* *CRACKLE*    Schiit! What? I listened to them for a while, and while they don't appear to be damaged, I'm a little worried about it. I wasn't wearing them when I plugged them in, but I could hear it from where they were sitting. It was LOUD.
> 
> So, what did I do wrong?


----------



## hodgjy

Unfortunately, all is not well in my Valhalla land.  I seem to have a persistent channel imbalance.  I've tried four sets of matched pre-amp tubes, and they all show a pretty noticeable imbalance.  Sometimes the imbalance follows the tubes, sometimes it does not.  It is absolutely mind blowing.  If the Valhalla is this sensitive to even the most minor tube differences, this is really going to mess with my head.
   
  I have been emailing Jason, and he said the only active devices in the amp are the tubes. 
   
  Sadly, I'm going to be asking for an RMA.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I don't think you did anything wrong.  It was probably one of the tubes settling in.  Tubes have been known to pop and ping while they warm up.  Usually, it's not too loud through the headphones, but sometimes it can be.
> 
> However, it's usually best to turn on source,* plug in headphones, then turn on tube amp*.  But, what you did should not have caused any problems.


 
  That's pretty wrong. You need to turn the Lyr/Valhalla/Asgard (if you ever turn it off) on and wait 20 seconds for the relay, then plug your headphones in.


----------



## hodgjy

Solid state and hybrid amps it is often recommended to turn on and then plug the headphones in, but for pure tube amps (OTL and transformer-coupled amps), it's very bad to run the amps without a load, and this includes during power on and power off.
   
  The Valhalla has no relay.  *You are wrong.*  The Asgard and Lyr have the relay.  Plus, the whole point of the relay is to protect your headphones in the first place, thus negating the need to power on and the plug in.
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> *That's pretty wrong.* You need to turn the Lyr/Valhalla/Asgard (if you ever turn it off) on and wait 20 seconds for the relay, then plug your headphones in.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Solid state and hybrid amps it is often recommended to turn on and then plug the headphones in, but for pure tube amps (OTL and transformer-coupled amps), it's very bad to run the amps without a load, and this includes during power on and power off.
> 
> The Valhalla has no relay.  *You are wrong.*  The Asgard and Lyr have the relay.  Plus, the whole point of the relay is to protect your headphones in the first place, thus negating the need to power on and the plug in.


 
  Yep, that's specifically what I was focusing on. And you're right, I stand corrected. OTL's are fine, in fact, you probably shouldn't unplug the
  headphones while amp is on.


----------



## karlsonklam

does the Asgard's relay work fast enough to deal with mains power glitches which can occur during storms?  Where I live the power can go off then come back on several times before the grid crashes.   A good relay system should never let a damaging transient occur.  What's the story on the Asgard's turnon-off behavior?  did early models include a relay?  What is the lowest safe impedance the Asgard "likes"?


----------



## grokit

Always use a surge protector


----------



## karlsonklam

fwiw I don't believe a surge protector would affect the inherent time characteristics of a charging/discharging supply.  Some power supplies such as the simple RC unregulated
  Van Alstine mod of Dynaco's PAS tube preamp could be switched on and off when hooked to a solid state amp without hurting the speakers or amp.   I will consider a Zerosurge or Brickwall unit.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Always use a surge protector


 
  Preferably use a power conditioner. Super preferred is one with built in battery backup.


----------



## grokit

I have a whole-house surge protector right at the breaker box, then power line conditioners/UPSs where appropriate.


----------



## paradoxper

Install a lightning rod, install a dedicated circuit for all your a/v gear. Obviously surge protect all of it and of course, use power conditioner and UPS's. Preferably a line interactive UPS (they switch over faster) or double conversion UPS (AC is converted to DC then converted back to AC).


----------



## karlsonklam

it would be good to be on batteries for some gear,  Is the Asgard more comfortable with 8 ohm loads than O2?  I'm starting to collect a few vintage cans in that impedance range.


----------



## Austin Morrow




----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





austin morrow said:


>


 
  Austin what do you have going on with the cables and those 2 tubes? Balanced adapter?


----------



## Slowfade

Bought a Lyr and Bifrost last week here in Vancouver. Using an iMac for a source. The thought is/was to upgrade to the HE-500's at some point, but the new amp and DAC made my Sennheiser HD-600's come alive. I can't believe it. Very impressed. I think I'm going to live with these for a bit while longer. 

Jim


----------



## karlsonklam

I'm not yet a Schitt owner but would trust Mike Moffat's design taste and skills from his marvelous 6DJ8 cascode Theta phono preamp from 30 years ago,  That unit had ~130vdc plate supply, Teflon pc board, passive RIAA eq, a sensible power supply w/o feedback - can still remember its sound on Magnepans.


----------



## imackler

For those who have or have heard both, do you prefer the HD600 or HD650 with the Asgard?


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





imackler said:


> For those who have or have heard both, do you prefer the HD600 or HD650 with the Asgard?


 

 Personally, the HD650's sounded better. All round.  All in all, the 650's paired very well with the Asgard and they are a recommended combination.
   
  However, I've since migrated to HE500's and a Lyr with good tubes and the improvement is quite dramatic - but that wasn't your question......


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





imackler said:


> For those who have or have heard both, do you prefer the HD600 or HD650 with the Asgard?


 
   
  Two different sonic signatures. As for the scalability factor, they both measure up quite good and sound great, it just comes down to sound preference between the two.


----------



## gmahler2u

I have some question for schiit (Bifrost) users.  If you don't have USB, how do you connect to your computer? 
  currently i'm using musicsteamer that has usb.  If I don't have usb How do I listening to music.
   
  Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have some question for schiit (Bifrost) users.  If you don't have USB, how do you connect to your computer?
> currently i'm using musicsteamer that has usb.  If I don't have usb How do I listening to music.
> 
> Thanks


 
  You use coaxial or s/pdif/optical


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You use coaxial or s/pdif/optical


 

 this.


----------



## grokit

Most Macs and a small portion of PCs will output toslink optical, or you can use a USB to spdif (coax or toslink) converter. PCs with cardslots will accept an audio card that has an spdif output, usually coaxial.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Most Macs and a small portion of PCs will output toslink optical, or you can use a USB to spdif (coax or toslink) converter. PCs with cardslots will accept an audio card that has an spdif output, usually coaxial.


 
  Pretty sure all Macs made in the last 10 years have toslink(some thru the headphone jack).


----------



## MickeyVee

The MacBook Air's have never had a toslink out - wish they did.  I believe that pretty much all other Macs do.
  Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> Pretty sure all Macs made in the last 10 years have toslink(some thru the headphone jack).


----------



## hodgjy

It was probably a space-saving measure.  My MacBook had the mini toslink.
  Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> The MacBook Air's have never had a toslink out - wish they did.  I believe that pretty much all other Macs do.


----------



## Nylerb

Hi !
   
  Ok this might be a silly question :
  how do you connect the Lyr AMP to a (laptop) computer ?
   
  Are there any cables with the AMP when you buy it ? Or do you need to buy them separately ?


----------



## hodgjy

If you want to hook it up directly to your laptop, you'll need to buy a cable like this:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Y-Audio-Cable-12-Foot/dp/B000067RBT/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1345224164&sr=8-4&keywords=rca+y+cable
   
  However, you'll be much better off getting an external USB digital to analog converter like this (or similar):
   
  http://www.amazon.com/HRT-Music-Streamer-II-Resolution/dp/B0038O4UFQ
   
  Quote: 





nylerb said:


> Hi !
> 
> Ok this might be a silly question :
> how do you connect the Lyr AMP to a (laptop) computer ?
> ...


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> Pretty sure all Macs made in the last 10 years have toslink(some thru the headphone jack).


 

 same with PC's. Toslink optical has been pretty much standard on mobo's since like 2005.


----------



## Nylerb

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> If you want to hook it up directly to your laptop, you'll need to buy a cable like this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Y-Audio-Cable-12-Foot/dp/B000067RBT/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1345224164&sr=8-4&keywords=rca+y+cable
> 
> ...


 

 Thx !
   
  Is it ok to skip the external USB DAC if I plan to buy the Schiit Bifrost later ?
   
  /edit
   
  Just to be sure, if I understand it correctly.
   
  When I will have both the AMP and the DAC :
   
  I connect PC to DAC with :
  http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000I2JVV4/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
   
  And the DAC to the AMP with :
  http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B000O77U52/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
   
  Right ?^^


----------



## hodgjy

See my comments in bold below:
   
  Quote: 





nylerb said:


> Thx !
> 
> Is it ok to skip the external USB DAC if I plan to buy the Schiit Bifrost later ?
> 
> ...


----------



## Nylerb

Ooh I see, that's why you recommand the HRT DAC. Thanks for the advice.
   
  I just realise that Amazon can't ship the (expensive) Schiit DAC...
   
  So, if I use this one instead :
  http://www.amazon.com/HRT-Music-Streamer-II-Resolution/dp/B0038O4UFQ
   
  with the Lyr AMP (and my AKG 701), would the whole chain be coherent ?


----------



## hodgjy

Yep.  Computer via usb cable to HRT.  HRT via RCA cables to Lyr.  Lyr to 701.  Awesome little package.
   
  Quote: 





nylerb said:


> Ooh I see, that's why you recommand the HRT DAC. Thanks for the advice.
> 
> I just realise that Amazon can't ship the (expensive) Schiit DAC...
> 
> ...


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You use coaxial or s/pdif/optical


 

 I understand. but where do I put Coaxial or s/pdif/optical to macbook?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I understand. but where do I put Coaxial or s/pdif/optical to macbook?


 
  Ah, with macbooks you'll have to go with toslink (optical) into the headphone jack of the macbook.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I understand. but where do I put Coaxial or s/pdif/optical to macbook?


 
  The headphone jack on most macs serves dual outs, can do 3.5mm stereo headphone (normal) and WITH AN ADAPTER will also output Optical digital.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## m2man

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TL955LL/A


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





m2man said:


> http://store.apple.com/us/product/TL955LL/A


 

 Same adapter is the one I posted in the link above for less than $2 shipped. Toslink cables can be had for less than $5 making the Apple solution almost 3x the price.


----------



## gmahler2u

is this Toslink (opticial) better than USB?  or same?
   
  Thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

Thanks for you input~


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> is this Toslink (opticial) better than USB?  or same?
> 
> Thanks


 
  There isn't a clear cut answer to this. Everyone's system is different, and toslink has its pro's and con's as does USB.
   If you're on PC I prefer coaxial. Mac toslink.


----------



## hodgjy

As someone else said, it all depends on implementation.

In theory, coaxial has the lowest jitter, optical has more, and USB has the potential to have the highest. In reality, there is great variation and some people argue that we can't perceive large differences in jitter. 



gmahler2u said:


> is this Toslink (opticial) better than USB?  or same?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you everyone for your input! 
   






  Now i'm not afraid to get Bifrost!


----------



## Eagle1911

Why does the Asgard have a 3.5mm headphone plug? How am I supposed to show off now? 6.35mm was the way to got coz it was big, professional and cool looking! ;@
   
  But seriously WHY? I'd hate to use the 3.5mm cable now for my headphones..


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Asgard has a 6.35mm plug. No 3.5mm.


----------



## William007

Asgard and my ortho work great  just to throw it out there looking forward to my hd600 i love schiit awesome costumer service and great value products 
And thanks to jason for helping me thru email i almost got instant response


----------



## jvalvano

I have had a Valhalla for a few months now and really enjoy it with Sennheiser 650s. Since it is a tube rolling model I decided to see what some tube rolling would do. I decided to go all out and got a pair of Golden Lion 6922s. The difference over the stock tubes is really to my liking. Much more open, a very 3 dimensional sound, a bit warmer and more detail. It made a great tube amp even better. Which is what I was hoping for. The GLs only have about 20hrs on them and they just keep sounding better and better.


----------



## MickeyVee

I've got the Bifrost & PYST incoming to complete my Schiit stack with the Lyr.  I've taken the round about route trying many different things along the way and hopefully this combo will be my end game for a while.  When I got serious about HeadFi about a year and a half ago I thought I'd be happy with an entry level system (HD600 & Matrix Mini-i), but what the hey, this is HeadFi, and the Schiit stack looks oh, so fine and I know it will sound as good! I love the authority the Lyr has with my HD700 and HE400. I'm sure I'll notch up the refinement with the Bifrost.
  Will report back once I've had some time with it had have given it a chance to break in.


----------



## Slowfade

The Bifrost is amazing. I recently had to live without it for a week. Filling in was my Fiio E10. Man, am I glad to get the Bifrost back! Obviously the Bifrost is a lot more $$, but seems you get what you pay for.


----------



## MickeyVee

The Bifrost has landed! Finally, have the Schiit stack (still waiting for the PSYT to land). Even after a couple of hours, it sounds well, hard to describe, very natural.  Different (and better) than anything I've had so far. Relaxed and easy going with Diana Krall, Patricia Barber, Norah Jones(vocal are rich and up front, sweet!), kicks butt when it has to (Madonna's Turn up the Radio, Black Eyed Peas) and rocks quite well with AC/DC. I do hear some micr-distortions and it could be fuller sounding but hopefully that will clean up once broken in.  I guess that it protrays the music as it should be.  Looking forward to listening to any changes as it breaks in.
  Cables: Audioquest Cinnamon USB and Signal Cable Silver Silver Resolution between the Bifrost & Lyr.
   
  BTW.. only tested it with the HD700 and any sharpness that I have been hearing has smoothed out a bit.. sound very 'musical' with the Bifrost (jazzy female vocal suff so far). So far, so good, very enjoyable, toe-tappingly good - going in the right direction. Is it really that much better that what I've been using? We'll see once it has some time to break in.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I do hear some micr-distortions and it could be fuller sounding but hopefully that will clean up once broken in


 
   
  It will, don't worry.


----------



## schaaf

Sorry, what is a PSYT?


----------



## MickeyVee

Put Your Schiit Together (PYST) - http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=12 
  Quote: 





schaaf said:


> Sorry, what is a PSYT?


----------



## schaaf

I posted, then thought I'd check out the schiit site. Answered my own question. 
   
  That's new I guess. I've been looking for a set of short interconnects for the bifrost and valhalla. This is pretty convenient.


----------



## RushNerd

I swear this is real.


----------



## paradoxper

PYST:


----------



## William007

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> PYST:


 
  what do you think of the PYST?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





william007 said:


> what do you think of the PYST?


 
  They got rid of some noise, for whatever that's worth.


----------



## Rope

Short PYST, won't reach my Schiit!!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There isn't a clear cut answer to this. Everyone's system is different, and toslink has its pro's and con's as does USB.
> If you're on PC I prefer coaxial. Mac toslink.


 
  I order the toslink and I got the cable.  When I tried to put the cable into my macbook.  It doesn't have anywhere put the cable.
   
  help!
   
  Thanks


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I order the toslink and I got the cable.  When I tried to put the cable into my macbook.  It doesn't have anywhere put the cable.
> 
> help!
> 
> Thanks


 
  It's hidden in the headphone jack.  You need an adapter like this:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Recoton-Fiber-Optic-Toslink-Adapter/dp/B0002MQGRM/ref=pd_cp_e_0
   
  I'm not necessarily recommending that one. It was the first one I found.


----------



## Rhyno46

Received my bifrost and Asgard today, to match my senn hd650.

I have one disappointment... I didn't bring the stack home with me tonight. This is my office setup and all I want to do is listen right now. 

I also have some anxiety... Should I have popped for the Valhalla instead?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rhyno46 said:


> I also have some anxiety... Should I have popped for the Valhalla instead?


 
  Nope. Though Lyr would have been preferred.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Or exchange the cable you received for a mini-toslink to toslink, better than an adapter. Amazon doesn't carry them but if you want a glass cable like that they start at around $50. Amazon does have standard glass toslink for less than half of that though.


----------



## Rhyno46

rhyno46 said:


> Should I have popped for the Valhalla instead?




Softball-->"send that Schiit back for a better Schiit"


----------



## Nylerb

Hi !
   
  Just received my Schiit Lyr. I never had any "tubes" amp before, so I got a silly question :
   
  How bright the tubes has to be ? I expected they would light up almost like a.. lamp, or something, but in fact there are only 2 orange dots in each of the tube.
   
  I wonder if this is normal ?^^


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nylerb said:


> Hi !
> 
> Just received my Schiit Lyr. I never had any "tubes" amp before, so I got a silly question :
> 
> ...


 
  Yep, it's perfectly normal. Voltage heaters differ from amp to amp.


----------



## Nylerb

Oh okay, thanks !
   
  Just by curiosity : what happens when the tubes broke ? You can't hear the music anymore ? Or can you still drive the headphones but the sound quality is decreased ?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





nylerb said:


> Oh okay, thanks !
> 
> Just by curiosity : what happens when the tubes broke ? You can't hear the music anymore ? Or can you still drive the headphones but the sound quality is decreased ?


 
  No problem.
   
  What do you mean by broke? If they're literally shattered you couldn't possibly roll them in Lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Often times a clear sign of a tube dying will be various noises, hissing, crackling, and other non describable sounds.
   
  And no, you can't have Lyr drive headphones with no tubes in it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Most likely you'll hear it i(or not hear) on one channel, I've never had tubes simultaneously go out on me. So if no music in left or right ear
  the tubes quit on ya. Or one of your headphone drivers failed.


----------



## Nylerb

Ok thanks  Now I know !


----------



## Rossliew

Just received my Valhalla today and straight out of the box, it sounded great with the RS1s and decently drove my HE-5LE at volume turned up to 10.30-11 o'clock. Bass was fast and taut with good vocal imaging and soundstage. Admittedly, it sounded better with the higher sensitivity RS1s but am quite happy with it driving my orthos as well. Gonna roll some tubes to see how it affects the sound


----------



## aqsw

I,m thinking of upgrading from my Lyr and Bifrostt to the Mol and Gun,  My son has a Valhalla  and  now wants a Bifrost also. If I give him my bifrost, will the new Gun sound good with my Lyr until I can afford the Mol?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





aqsw said:


> I,m thinking of upgrading from my Lyr and Bifrostt to the Mol and Gun,  My son has a Valhalla  and  now wants a Bifrost also. If I give him my bifrost, will the new Gun sound good with my Lyr until I can afford the Mol?


 
  Yea, it will sound good. You just won't have the benefit of being balanced.


----------



## jono454

Hmm...would the PYST be an upgrade over my decent monoprice  RCA cables =/


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jono454 said:


> Hmm...would the PYST be an upgrade over my decent monoprice  RCA cables =/


 
  The PYST uses straight wire. Quite good cable and it's affordable, so why not?


----------



## eleathar

First time I post in this forum and I'm doing it to share my experience with the Asgard I received yesterday: I'm pairing it with my Senn HD 598 and using an iStreamer as DAC and an iPod as source: previously I was using a Fiio e11 amp, which tbh sounded fairly well, maybe only a little harsh and fatiguing on high frequencies, but I really wanted a desktop solution, without being forced to silence at every battery charge . So after reading here and there, I opted for an Asgard.
   
  I really could not imagine how an amp can influence the quality of the sound! Suddenly the space around my ears has become enormous! The already perfect sound stage has gained way more air between instruments.
  The sound is overall fantastic and never fatiguing, acquiring more clarity on all frequencies, with the tight basses that already E11 gave to me, even deeper, and adding definitely more refined highs, without any trace of harshness. It really seems to me to have a new pair of headphones, way better than the previous ones! 
   
  I'm really happy with this Schiit!


----------



## Minkypou

I can make this combo? asus xonar essence st ( use only the dac) + asgard for amp ? i need to buy additional cable? help me pllz, im noob


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





minkypou said:


> I can make this combo? asus xonar essence st ( use only the dac) + asgard for amp ? i need to buy additional cable? help me pllz, im noob


 

 You need a pair of pre-amp cables. (L/R stereo). Blue Jeans make a good value for money cable but there are literally hundreds at amazon for cheap like these.


----------



## Minkypou

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> You need a pair of pre-amp cables. (L/R stereo). Blue Jeans make a good value for money cable but there are literally hundreds at amazon for cheap like these.


 
  oh ok thx


----------



## Minkypou

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> You need a pair of pre-amp cables. (L/R stereo). Blue Jeans make a good value for money cable but there are literally hundreds at amazon for cheap like these.


 
  i dont lose any sound quality with this?....


----------



## grokit

Hey at least go for the "high quality" cheapies:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I1IG8Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A2GCZA90HY2BIS
   
  I just tried a set of these and they seem pretty good.


----------



## Slowfade

You can always get PYST. http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=12   I'm just sayin'


----------



## Minkypou

Quote: 





slowfade said:


> You can always get PYST. http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=12   I'm just sayin'


 
  haha nice, schiit asgard and this cables on the same order !  so easy  thx you


----------



## viralcow

I'm planning to buy a Lyr soon, when I save up enough money for my HE-500.
   
  Btw, not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the FAQ page is hilarious. http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-lyr/
   
   
  Quote: 





> *"Why the hell do you need a 6 watt headphone amplifier?*
> Why the hell do you need 400 horsepower? Why the hell do you need bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Why the hell do you _need_ anything that’s fun and exciting in life? Face it, you don’t _need_ anything. You should renounce all your worldly possessions and become a monk."


 
   
  lol'd


----------



## Aliff

I just ordered the Lyr yesterday. I think the extra power + line out is a perfect combination for my HE500 and my speaker system.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Raser

aliff said:


> I just ordered the Lyr yesterday. I think the extra power + line out is a perfect combination for my HE500 and my speaker system.
> Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2



Is it okay to ask what kind of speaker system you have? Just curious


----------



## remilio

Quote: 





aliff said:


> I just ordered the Lyr yesterday. I think the extra power + line out is a perfect combination for my HE500 and my speaker system.
> Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


 

 Lyr is not a good choice as a preamp


----------



## abs1nthe

Advice Wanted: Just bought Lyr from a member.
   
  Pretty excited, especially since it comes with some extra tubes.  But, I overspent on my amp budget by about $100.  I was going to get the HiFiMan HE400, but now, I'd like to find out if I can spend $300 on some cans rather than $400.
   
  So, here are my questions:
  Any recommendation for $300 cans to use with the Lyr?
  At $400, are the HE400's the best bet? Or are there other cans I should look at?
   
  FYI, I listen to a wide variety of music... Here is my current preference: country (old country and bluegrass), female vocals with heavy bass in the background (eg. Dido or Lana Del Rey), lounge with vocals (Pink Martini), rap (Jay-Z), Indian Punjabi music, and alternative/pop (AWOLNATION, Vampire Weekend).
   
  Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## rgd55

*Need help building my schiit.*
   I just ordered a V-Link II usb to s/pdif converter and plan to get a Bifrost soon.I ordered the V-Link for several reasons;
  -distance from my pc server to my desktop system is about 12 feet and I was thinking that was too far for a usb cable
  - I just ordered a nice long rca s/pdif cable form Blue Jeans Cables
   
  Will it be better to keep the V-Link and use it with the
  Bifrost or send the V-Link back for credit and order the Bifrost with USB?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





abs1nthe said:


> Advice Wanted: Just bought Lyr from a member.
> 
> Pretty excited, especially since it comes with some extra tubes.  But, I overspent on my amp budget by about $100.  I was going to get the HiFiMan HE400, but now, I'd like to find out if I can spend $300 on some cans rather than $400.
> 
> ...


 
   
  AKG K701 or used Sennheiser HD600/650 perhaps? When AB-ing with my Asgard I liked the K701s a lot more with the Lyr (tube rolling to tame the treble and add some bass). As for the Sennheisers, well, they are excellent with almost anything including the Asgard and Lyr.
   
   
   
   


rgd55 said:


> *Need help building my schiit.*
> I just ordered a V-Link II usb to s/pdif converter and plan to get a Bifrost soon.I ordered the V-Link for several reasons;
> -distance from my pc server to my desktop system is about 12 feet and I was thinking that was too far for a usb cable
> - I just ordered a nice long rca s/pdif cable form Blue Jeans Cables
> ...


 
   
  I have not tried the V-Link II, but I do know that the Bifrost's USB is quite good and 12 feet shouldn't be a problem for USB. Unfortunately, I sort of doubt you'll find anyone who's actually AB'd those two. What I can say is that for me I find it more convenient to have USB built in and not have to fuss with an extra converter. Also, Bifrost supports up to 24/192 over USB while the V-link appears to only do 24/96, so you'll need to decide if that's important to you or not (I don't have any music over 24/96, but you may).


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





remilio said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I beg to differ, the Lyr was a great tube stage/preamp for my speaker system. Added a lot of warmth and gain, had a pretty quiet background when I tried it.
   
   
  Quote: 





abs1nthe said:


> Advice Wanted: Just bought Lyr from a member.
> 
> Pretty excited, especially since it comes with some extra tubes.  But, I overspent on my amp budget by about $100.  I was going to get the HiFiMan HE400, but now, I'd like to find out if I can spend $300 on some cans rather than $400.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Agreed on the K701 recommendation, that was my favorite pairing with the Lyr. Give it a try if you get a chance.
   
   
  Quote: 





rgd55 said:


> *Need help building my schiit.*
> I just ordered a V-Link II usb to s/pdif converter and plan to get a Bifrost soon.I ordered the V-Link for several reasons;
> -distance from my pc server to my desktop system is about 12 feet and I was thinking that was too far for a usb cable
> - I just ordered a nice long rca s/pdif cable form Blue Jeans Cables
> ...


 
   
  While it would be interesting to hear a comparison between the two, as said above if 192k is important to you the Vlink is out of the running.
   
  edit: I enjoy the Vlink 192 with my Mini-i, but it's more expensive that the Schiit option. I should be able to make a comparison soon with the Gungnir...


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





abs1nthe said:


> Advice Wanted: Just bought Lyr from a member.
> 
> Pretty excited, especially since it comes with some extra tubes.  But, I overspent on my amp budget by about $100.  I was going to get the HiFiMan HE400, but now, I'd like to find out if I can spend $300 on some cans rather than $400.
> 
> ...


 
   
HE-400 is a fantastic deal for price and making the HP's like HD650, DT880, and K701 into a quartet, they pair very good with Lyr, I suggest you ask question's on http://www.head-fi.org/t/586885/new-hifiman-headphone-he-400-is-out/3660 before you make next move


----------



## musicinmymind

I recently got Lyr + Bifrost combo and Lyr really gets hot when it is on for more than 30 mins... is it safe to stack Lyr on top of Bifrost?
   
  Please suggest.


----------



## MickeyVee

No problem at all.. most of us with the combo do stack them.
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I recently got Lyr + Bifrost combo and Lyr really gets hot when it is on for more than 30 mins... is it safe to stack Lyr on top of Bifrost?
> 
> Please suggest.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> No problem at all.. most of us with the combo do stack them.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for replay...
   
  any suggestion to increase space between two when stacked?


----------



## abs1nthe

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> AKG K701 or used Sennheiser HD600/650 perhaps? When AB-ing with my Asgard I liked the K701s a lot more with the Lyr (tube rolling to tame the treble and add some bass). As for the Sennheisers, well, they are excellent with almost anything including the Asgard and Lyr.


 
  Thank you.  That was very helpful.  Any advice on tubes?  I like a bit more bass as well.
   
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> HE-400 is a fantastic deal for price and making the HP's like HD650, DT880, and K701 into a quartet, they pair very good with Lyr, I suggest you ask question's on http://www.head-fi.org/t/586885/new-hifiman-headphone-he-400-is-out/3660 before you make next move


 
  Thanks.  will do.  What music do you listen to?  I'm starting to think that the kind of music people listen to heavily impacts their preference.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Agreed on the K701 recommendation, that was my favorite pairing with the Lyr. Give it a try if you get a chance.


 
  I live in Houston.  I don't know anywhere where I can audition any of these headphones.  So, I'm going to have to go by the reviews alone.  I looked at a lot of the 701 reviews and a few complain about an artificial feel in the vocals.  Will the Lyr's change that depending on the tubes used?  Thanks for the advice.  What music do you listen to?  I'm starting to think that the kind of music people listen to heavily impacts their preference.


----------



## grokit

While it didn't transform into a completely different headphone, the K701 did change personalities when plugged into the Lyr. It sounded fuller and more dynamic than with the other amps I had used/tried.


----------



## Aliff

raser said:


> aliff said:
> 
> 
> > I just ordered the Lyr yesterday. I think the extra power + line out is a perfect combination for my HE500 and my speaker system.
> ...



Mine is Edifier S550. The LYR line out will go into my 2.1 input on the S550. For movies, it will be from my motherboard with Supreme FX III chipset.

What I love about the S550 is it got separate 2.1 and 5.1 input and we can switch between them via remote.

BTW what is your speaker system?

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





abs1nthe said:


> Thank you.  That was very helpful.  Any advice on tubes?  I like a bit more bass as well.


 
   
  It was actually *dailydoseofdaly*'s Lyr that I got to listen to and I'm not sure what tubes they were (he's got a few sets). You might try shooting him a PM though if you don't want to wade through the whole tube-rolling thread.


----------



## MickeyVee

I just use some sticky silicone feet that I got a local hardware store.  They're about 1/2" in diameter and about 1/4" thick.  Works perfectly for me.
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> Thanks for replay...
> 
> any suggestion to increase space between two when stacked?


----------



## rgd55

Defiant00 and grokit,thanks for the replys.
    I received the V-Link today and sent it back for credit.My motherboard has s/pdif out anyways,so I will stay with that.


----------



## Slowfade

abs1nthe said:


> Advice Wanted: Just bought Lyr from a member.
> 
> Pretty excited, especially since it comes with some extra tubes.  But, I overspent on my amp budget by about $100.  I was going to get the HiFiMan HE400, but now, I'd like to find out if I can spend $300 on some cans rather than $400.
> 
> ...





I have the HD-600's and use them with the Lyr with great result. reccomended.


----------



## Slowfade

musicinmymind said:


> Thanks for replay...
> 
> any suggestion to increase space between two when stacked?




I stack them, Bifrost on the bottom obviously, and it works just great. I think they are designed to work this way. My guess is you don't really need to increase the separation any beyond the little feet they give you in the box.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





slowfade said:


> I stack them, Bifrost on the bottom obviously, and it works just great. I think they are designed to work this way. My guess is you don't really need to increase the separation any beyond the little feet they give you in the box.


 
   
  That's what Jason has said as well, just use the feet they come with and you'll be fine (you do have a 5 year warranty, so he wouldn't say that if they weren't sure).


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> That's what Jason has said as well, just use the feet they come with and you'll be fine (you do have a 5 year warranty, so he wouldn't say that if they weren't sure).


 
  Uh, Jasons retiring in 3 years. So...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The stock feet are ok, but getting some sorbothane feet provides additional space for cooling
  and they look nicer.


----------



## gmahler2u

Where can I get the feet for my asgard and bifrost?  I would like to stack them together but they don't comes with the feet.
   
  Thanks


----------



## fr45er

Mine both came (valhalla and bifrost) with 4 small rubber feet to stick on the underside.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





fr45er said:


> Mine both came (valhalla and bifrost) with 4 small rubber feet to stick on the underside.


 
  wow...i should go home and check inside the box.


----------



## fr45er

yeah,  they are pretty easy to miss


----------



## WhiteCrow

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> *Uh, Jasons retiring in 3 years. So...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OH HELLLLLLLL NO!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





fr45er said:


> yeah,  they are pretty easy to miss


 

 unfortunately I couldn't find it.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> unfortunately I couldn't find it.


 
  Just send Jason a message, he'll send 'em out to you.


----------



## mister skinner

I'm looking for some Schiit. I have a set of HD600s and Senn. Momentums and I'm bouncing between an Asgard or the Valhalla. I'd like to have the Valhalla for my HD600s to give them a little warmth but the Valhalla is rated at 32 ohm minimum output while my Senn. Momentums are rated at 18 ohms. I don't plan to us the Momentums on the Vallhalla much at all but the 18 ohm bit worries me.
   
  Any input?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mister skinner said:


> I'm looking for some Schiit. I have a set of HD600s and Senn. Momentums and I'm bouncing between an Asgard or the Valhalla. I'd like to have the Valhalla for my HD600s to give them a little warmth but the Valhalla is rated at 32 ohm minimum output while my Senn. Momentums are rated at 18 ohms. I don't plan to us the Momentums on the Vallhalla much at all but the 18 ohm bit worries me.
> 
> Any input?


 

 hi.
   
  I have hd800 and i'm using Asgard.  It sounds fantastic.  I think yours as well.
   
  hope this help.


----------



## Defiant00

mister skinner said:


> I'm looking for some Schiit. I have a set of HD600s and Senn. Momentums and I'm bouncing between an Asgard or the Valhalla. I'd like to have the Valhalla for my HD600s to give them a little warmth but the Valhalla is rated at 32 ohm minimum output while my Senn. Momentums are rated at 18 ohms. I don't plan to us the Momentums on the Vallhalla much at all but the 18 ohm bit worries me.
> 
> Any input?




Seconded, the Asgard is excellent with the HD600s. I've heard good things about the Valhalla as well, but I can say from personal experience that the Asgard definitely works well.


----------



## eleathar

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> hi.
> 
> I have hd800 and i'm using Asgard.  It sounds fantastic.  I think yours as well.
> 
> hope this help.


 
  So, do you think Asgard is enough to drive HD800? No issues at all? My Asgard is currently paired with HD598 and I'm really enjoying this combo, but I would like to upgrade my headphones soon, to make a step ahead in sound clarity and sound stage width: I was thinking about HD 700 or HD 800, but I'm concerned about Asgard effectiveness to drive them (especially the HD 800) because it is "uniquely suitable for low impedance headphones": maybe is ok but not ideal...or not?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





eleathar said:


> So, do you think Asgard is enough to drive HD800? No issues at all? My Asgard is currently paired with HD598 and I'm really enjoying this combo, but I would like to upgrade my headphones soon, to make a step ahead in sound clarity and sound stage width: I was thinking about HD 700 or HD 800, but I'm concerned about Asgard effectiveness to drive them (especially the HD 800) because it is "uniquely suitable for low impedance headphones": maybe is ok but not ideal...or not?


 

 The asgard drives hd800, I really enjoy them a lot.  Asgard brings out what hd800 can do.
   
  hope this help


----------



## musicinmymind

[size=medium]I pulled these pic from web and really like the way Lyr and bifrost stacked, I want those spacers used between them.[/size]
  [size=medium]If someone know where to get those spacers please let me know[/size]


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]I pulled these pic from web and really like the way Lyr and bifrost stacked, I want those spacers used between them.[/size]
> [size=medium]If someone know where to get those spacers please let me know[/size]


 
  where did you get it?
   
   
  Thanks cheers


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> where did you get it?
> 
> 
> Thanks cheers


 
   
  You mean Pic??
   
  I opened the google, Enter Schiit Lyr and click on the images, did find these Pic in 10 or 12 row
   
  Now I need to know where to get thouse [size=small]spacers [/size]used between Schiit stack


----------



## paradoxper

Those look like they're from Herbies. Here


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Those look like they're from Herbies. Here


 
   
  Thanks a lot, I will get few and post my pic back.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello.
   
  I have issue with Bifrost with asgard.  I'm connect with toslink.  I don't get the sound from my amp.
  everything is connected and all lights are on.  no sound.  I waited about 1min.
   
  Thank you


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello.
> 
> I have issue with Bifrost with asgard.  I'm connect with toslink.  I don't get the sound from my amp.
> everything is connected and all lights are on.  no sound.  I waited about 1min.
> ...


 
   
  Check the setting in the Bifrost, out of three LED (or what ever) for toslink connection center one must glow, you can use only button in Bifrost to change this setting


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello.
> 
> I have issue with Bifrost with asgard.  I'm connect with toslink.  I don't get the sound from my amp.
> everything is connected and all lights are on.  no sound.  I waited about 1min.
> ...


 
  It would also be more helpful if you included some details as to Mac or PC. I'd check to make sure the toslink is working,
  As well as making sure you have the correct input selected on the Bifrost.


----------



## gmahler2u

Sorry I'm using Mac.  Ii'll check the correct input setting.
   
  Also, I put the toslink setting on the Bifrost.
   
  Thank you again.


----------



## paradoxper

Do you have the correct configuration in the Audio MIDI settings? Also what music player are you using?


----------



## IcedTea

I know this may be a weird question, but has anyone figured out a way to change the LED lights on Schiit products? It seems as though they get different LEDs throughout their batches. My Valhalla/Bifrost/Lyr all have different LEDs lol 
   
  I'm trying to find a way to make them all the same, the OCD inside of me is killing me slowly looking at the different lights..


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> I know this may be a weird question, but has anyone figured out a way to change the LED lights on Schiit products? It seems as though they get different LEDs throughout their batches. My Valhalla/Bifrost/Lyr all have different LEDs lol
> 
> I'm trying to find a way to make them all the same, the OCD inside of me is killing me slowly looking at the different lights..


 
  It's always the amp that emits the more opaque LED color. I haven't heard of anyone changing 'em out though. Good idea!


----------



## IcedTea

My Bifrost has a yellow/cream white while new Lyr has a bright LED white
   
  Why are they so different?! :/ 
   
  Maybe I just need to put my Bifrost behind my monitor lol


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> My Bifrost has a yellow/cream white while new Lyr has a bright LED white
> 
> Why are they so different?! :/
> 
> Maybe I just need to put my Bifrost behind my monitor lol


 
  Oh, that's way different then. I've only had both white LED's, but on both the Asgard and Lyr the white was more opaque.
   
  I can't recall about hearing yellow/cream white, that's kind of drastic in difference.
   
  I always thought the reasons for the differences in LED's was due to different shapes or something. For instance, my Mjolnir is 
  is more blob or dot like and opaque while the Gungnir is more rounded and full in brightness.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Do you have the correct configuration in the Audio MIDI settings? Also what music player are you using?


 

 Hi. I'm using itune and amarra player.  it's digital out.  still no sound.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi. I'm using itune and amarra player.  it's digital out.  still no sound.


 
  What about checking Amarra's Audio Device preferences? I've had some quirks
  where Amarra will switch my settings to HDMI, thus no sound.
   
  You should also try playing a youtube video or something similar, anything
  outside of Amarra to eliminate the possibility of the problem being hardware.


----------



## gmahler2u

problem fix...it was connection of my headphone.  Now i'm jamming!!
   
  Thank you


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> My Bifrost has a yellow/cream white while new Lyr has a bright LED white
> 
> Why are they so different?! :/
> 
> Maybe I just need to put my Bifrost behind my monitor lol


 
   
  This really irks my OCD as well. My Mjolnir has an opaque, cream white LED, while my Gungnir has bright, transparent white LED's. My Lyr was similar to the Mjolnir, but the two other Bifrosts I owned had the birght LEDs like the Gungnir. Not sure why Schiit skimps on this last detail.


----------



## IcedTea

I decided to just place electrical tape over the LEDs of my bifrost lol 

I would place it on the lyr as well, but I don't want the tape to melt and get stuck due to the heat the lyr puts out. 

I know it's nothing, but it really bugged a part of my brain seeing things matching but not completely uniform lol


----------



## skyline315

FINALLY a member of this happy family.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Got my Asgard a few weeks ago and am loving it.  Pairs quite nicely with my DT880s (250 ohm) and MSII. 
   
  Now, to set my sights on one of those fancy Bifrost units...


----------



## IcedTea

Welcome to the family!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





icedtea said:


> My Bifrost has a yellow/cream white while new Lyr has a bright LED white
> 
> Why are they so different?! :/
> 
> Maybe I just need to put my Bifrost behind my monitor lol


 
   
  Are you sure it's that order?  That's the first i've heard of an amp being blue-white and the DAC being warm white.  It seems almost universal otherwise that the DACs have the cool white and the amps have the warm white.  Given the consistency of that I've always assumed it was intentional.  Maybe it's just a biproduct of the voltage going elsewhere on the amps?


----------



## kiwidave

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> This really irks my OCD as well. My Mjolnir has an opaque, cream white LED, while my Gungnir has bright, transparent white LED's. My Lyr was similar to the Mjolnir, but the two other Bifrosts I owned had the birght LEDs like the Gungnir. Not sure why Schiit skimps on this last detail.


 
  I also have a Schitt stack [sic] - Bifrost on bottom with Asgard above, connected by a set of PYST cables
   
  The Bifrost LED is definitely a yellowish white, while the Asgard LED is "bright transparent" white.


----------



## kiwidave

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The Bifrost is a fine dac imo. I've mainly used usb but I've found optical to sound better out of my new MBP. It's subtle but I hear better clarity and it seems less flat in terms of dynamics. Unfortunately the Bifrost has a tendency to lose sync mid song via optical, resulting in skips and non stop clicking from the dac itself. I'm hoping it's the generic 2m toslink to mini toslink cable I have and will be ordering a shorter Siflex glass cable to test.


 
  Interesting as I have come to the same conclusion - the optical output of my MBP 2011 13" sounds better than the usb -- not by much, but enough. Only limit is that MBP is limited to 96kHz (44.1, 48, 88.2 & 96kHz-- whilst my mac Mini 2009 can only do 44.1, 48 & 96kHz). How ever, don't have too much 192K stuff, and Audirvana + downsamplesfine.


----------



## grokit

olor1n said:


> Not sure why Schiit skimps on this last detail.




That is curious, with something that is so noticeable. With all other things aesthetic Shiit seems pretty thought out. I don't have a Shiit stack but if I did it would drive me nuts as well.


----------



## MickeyVee

It doesn't seem to bother me at all.  Once the music is on, I'm usually working on the Mac or just sitting back and enjoying.  Here's a picture of my setup.  Not sure if the difference is more drastic on other setups.
   

   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> That is curious, with something that is so noticeable. With all other things aesthetic Shiit seems pretty thought out. I don't have a Shiit stack but if I did it would drive me nuts as well.


----------



## IcedTea

Yours is actually both bright white LEDs, 
   
  My Bifrost has a more warmer/yellowish white while my Lyr is the same as yours.
   
  But all is good now, all I needed was some electrical type lol


----------



## olor1n

grokit said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure why Schiit skimps on this last detail.
> ...




I've listed an IC in the FS section because I can't stand it anymore. Should take this opportunity to check out the Sonett 2 or WA2... though I'll probably end up getting another Mjolnir. Sigh.


----------



## Y2HBK

As a future HD800 owner I have looked at both the Lyr and the Mjolnir. I have never experimented with tube amps, but keep reading that the HD800 really shines with them. Which one i go with would certainly influence whether I look more at the Bifrost or the Gungnir. 
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## Dat bass

I have the DT 990 600 OHM, between the Valhalla and Lyr which would be better?

I also plan to buy the bifrost also, excuse the post count, im more of a lurker than a poster type.


----------



## cthchung

I am close to joining this family! I have a Lyr coming my way. Going to test it against the Burson HA160... I hope I don't end up liking them both because I can only keep one!


----------



## Kiwikat

After a bit of a wait, I've got a Lyr and Bifrost coming tomorrow.  Byebye Fiio E7/E9... I can't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Their customer service was very helpful in the ordering process.  I hope the product is as good as their service has been!
   
   
   
   
   
  I kind of wonder how different these will sound vs the FiiO pair.  I've never had the opportunity to listen to anything better before.  Some people have said it will be a day and night difference, but I wonder how that is possible.


----------



## Makuta11

Soon to be Valhalla owner here! I had a pretty tough time deciding, but after hearing it paired with some Grados at RMAF I was sold!


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Kiwikat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I kind of wonder how different these will sound vs the FiiO pair.  I've never had the opportunity to listen to anything better before.  Some people have said it will be a day and night difference, but I wonder how that is possible.


 
   
  Hmmmmm, a lot of that depends on your headphones.  It's night and day for some, but not necessarily for everyone.  Definitely looking forward to hearing your impressions!


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





kiwikat said:


> I kind of wonder how different these will sound vs the FiiO pair.  I've never had the opportunity to listen to anything better before.  Some people have said it will be a day and night difference, but I wonder how that is possible.


 
   
  For your HD650s I think you're going to be in for a real treat.
   
  Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## musicinmymind

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  [size=medium]IMO….more juice from Lyr trends to make HD-650 more natural…..dark nature is almost lost…low mids is raised by 1 db and high-mids gain much more maybe 2-3 db. If you like dark nature of HD-650, then you may not like the change….but overall dynamics of HD-650 will gain’s with Lyr and makes them much more enjoyable…..tubes rolling will add to excitement  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


[/size]


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> [size=medium]IMO….more juice from Lyr trends to make HD-650 more natural…..dark nature is almost lost…low mids is raised by 1 db and high-mids gain much more maybe 2-3 db. If you like dark nature of HD-650, then you may not like the change….but overall dynamics of HD-650 will gain’s with Lyr and makes them much more enjoyable…..tubes rolling will add to excitement
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1, Lyr has amazing synergy with HD650!


----------



## Kiwikat

Wow, am I glad I took the afternoon off!
   
  Initial response is goosebumps.  Lots of them. The HD650's sound way more dynamic now.  The low lows are felt a lot more, and the mids are a lot more forward.  In the past I've really had a problem with sibilance from hi-hats.  It is gone now.  The beginning of Dark Side of the Moon feels like the whole house is pulsing.  The clocks and alarms at the beginning of "Time" don't hurt my ears anymore either.
   
   
  It isn't very scientific, but my major observation is that the headphones sound a LOT fuller now.  The E9 produces a somewhat hollow sound compared to this.
   
   
  Saw something about LED colors not matching on the Lyr and Bifrost, but mine do.  Maybe that was an issue a long time ago...


----------



## sensui123

That's good news to hear, I just picked up the HD650, HE500, and trying to pick up a pair of the Denon ah-d7000 as well.  I currently got the ODAC/O2 setup but am looking to go all in with the Schiit equipment.  Was thinking about the BifrostAsgard but the more I read, it seems that Lyr really is the way to go to open up these sets.  I've really jumped into tube amps myself, anything special I need to know in terms of maintenance?  I need to even start researching probably which of those tubes included with the Lyr even is the way to go for the warmest/natural setup....Any advice from current owners?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kiwikat said:


> Wow, am I glad I took the afternoon off!
> 
> Initial response is goosebumps.  Lots of them. The HD650's sound way more dynamic now.  The low lows are felt a lot more, and the mids are a lot more forward.  In the past I've really had a problem with sibilance from hi-hats.  It is gone now.  The beginning of Dark Side of the Moon feels like the whole house is pulsing.  The clocks and alarms at the beginning of "Time" don't hurt my ears anymore either.


 
  Now start tube rolling.


----------



## Loevhagen

... or simply buy the Mjolnir and avoid all the tube-rolling hazzle / cost. It is actually more sensible.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> ... or simply buy the Mjolnir and avoid all the tube-rolling hazzle / cost. It is actually more sensible.


 
  What is done, is done. But yea, it would have been more sensible all things considered on getting Mjolnir.
  Although, I had a buttload of fun tube rolling, even though i emptied my wallet like nothing else I've experience thus far.


----------



## Kiwikat

You guys are sure good at raining on parades... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Back to the awesome music!


----------



## sensui123

I know tube rolling can be quite addicting (rightfully so, it's such an economic/easy way to change sound signature), but how are the tube options they include with the Lyr in the first place?  I really don't want to go with the Mjolnir since I'm not ready to go with the balanced/XLR setups (I don't really think I'd take advantage of that anyway).  More feedback I read about the Schiit gear from you guys the more excited I get.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





sensui123 said:


> I know tube rolling can be quite addicting (rightfully so, it's such an economic/easy way to change sound signature), but how are the tube options they include with the Lyr in the first place?  I really don't want to go with the Mjolnir since I'm not ready to go with the balanced/XLR setups (I don't really think I'd take advantage of that anyway).  More feedback I read about the Schiit gear from you guys the more excited I get.


 
  Generally the consensus is the stock JJ tubes Lyr comes with suck. They're pretty awful.
  I find the Lyr to be a very flat amp with the JJ's.
   
  The GE's are the other stock tubes that come with Lyr, they're much better.
  Improvements can be made with tube rolling for good value, however
  if you want to truely optimize or reach Lyr's full potential going full on in the tube rolling
  game is a must. I believe if you really research your tubes you can bring Lyr's full potential in
  for just under $1k.


----------



## Kiwikat

I've never used any other tubes, or a tube amp before, for that matter.  Everyone was pointing to the GE's so that is what I got.


----------



## sensui123

Yeah that seems to jive with what I've been picking up.  So I'll definitely go with the GE's then.  Thanks for the advice on the tube rolling, I'm sure after I get over the initial woos and ahhs on the GE's with the Lyr I'll be regularly researching that tube rolling thread for Lyr.   This hobby is evil.  =P


----------



## MickeyVee

When I got the Lyr i went a little nuts on tube rolling.  In the end, I like the stock GE's but wish I didn't sell my Lorenz Stuttgart.  I may try the Gold Lions which are said to be a little better than the GE's and I'll probably stop there. The GE's really need 30-60 minutes to sound their best.  Really, you don't need to tube roll and just enjoy the Lyr.  But, this is Head-Fi and that wouldn't be any fun! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





kiwikat said:


> I've never used any other tubes, or a tube amp before, for that matter.  Everyone was pointing to the GE's so that is what I got.


----------



## IcedTea

I think my mismatch LED lights could have been all from different production times. 
   
  My process went like this:
   
  1.) bought the old Valhalla off a head-fi member
   
  2.) bought the Bifrost when it first came out
   
  3.) just bought a Lyr recently
   
  so I understand why the led could be different from each batch, I'm sure Schiit have a more uniform production now. I just didn't have the money to buy everything at one time. Its interesting to see how their products evolve as well. The on/off switch gets more smooth with the later production.
   
  But I don't stack my Lyr on top of my Bifrost anymore, so the LED issue doesn't bother me anymore. (I just don't want there to be too much heat on the two devices, that and I electric taped the Bifrost lights lol)


----------



## NZheadcase

My first post at Head-fi! Joined specifically because of this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've owned the Bifrost and the Asgard for several months now, and I could not be any happier. Thinking of getting the Lyr soon. anyway, thanks for starting this thread. Hope to get a lot of info on this and other threads, particularly on tube rolling for the Lyr (when I get it...hopefully soon). 
   
  If I ask a lot of stupid questions, please be patient, as I'm new to this hobby.


----------



## asmoday

I just added some Schiit to the arsenal. 
   
  I could not be happier with what this combination has done to the HD650's and its not half bad for the DT880/Ω either. Not sure how soon I will jump into the tube rolling thing. So far I enjoy the heck out of the stock GE's. 
   
   

   
  Black and White seems to help mask the horrible cell phone picture....lol


----------



## amandarae

Hi,
   
  I am new to this thread.  I have the Schiit Bifrost/Lyr combo and very much like their performance together.  I found Power Conditioning and Power Cords makes great improvements to the Lyr/Bifrost besides the right tubes to use on the Lyr. As for cables, I just use the PYST and never had the inclination to try different ones yet.
   
  Regards.


----------



## yoshixb

The Lyr is my first tube amp, and I love it. It replaces an old Creek OBH-11 I've been using and I love it's sound.

Still using the stock tubes though. If I was going to roll in new ones, any recommendations on the first ones to go with?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





yoshixb said:


> The Lyr is my first tube amp, and I love it. It replaces an old Creek OBH-11 I've been using and I love it's sound.
> Still using the stock tubes though. If I was going to roll in new ones, any recommendations on the first ones to go with?


 
  they have own thread about which tubes roll...


----------



## jhelsas

Have anyone heard the heed canamp?
   
  Do anyone knows how it fares against the Asgard?
   
  The same question for the Lehmann Rhinelander.

 Thanks in advance


----------



## rlarsen462

Hello all, just joined the forum after picking up an HD 650 (and annoying my wife with the open back design which is part of the allure).  Love the headphones, but I've only been listening to them through a NuForce Icon-2 that I plan on returning.  I am awaiting delivery of a Bifrost and Valhalla, but with all the talk of the Lyr (I waffled pretty bad between Valhalla and Lyr) makes me wonder if I made the right decision.
   
  I suppose the best remedy is to just listen to the Valhalla as much as a I can and if I'm not a fan try out the Lyr?  Is there anything I would specifically be missing with the Valhalla over the Lyr?  I should note I have never listened to a tube amp either with full size loudspeakers or headphones.


----------



## hodgjy

Valhalla over Lyr for HD650.


----------



## -Shadow-

When I was in contact with Jason from Schiit a couple weeks ago and were discussing either the Lyr or Valhalla for the HD650 he said either was fine. He said it basically came down to if I was going to go Ortho headphones or not as which to choose. I am jumping into Ortho headphones next so I opted for the Lyr. Plus it's a hybrid and I hate messing with power tubes so that was another plus for the Lyr to me personally. 

That Valhalla should be great and I wouldn't worry about it compared to the Lyr. If it wasn't for the two outside of sound variables a stated above I would have gone with the Valhalla too. 

Enjoy!!!


----------



## rlarsen462

Well I got the Bifrost and Valhalla today and needless to say I am blown away by the sound, pretty much everything from Pink Floyd to deadmau5 sounds unbelievable. I'm not enough of an audiophile to use fancy terms to describe how good it sounds but it was money well spent!


----------



## jhelsas

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Valhalla over Lyr for HD650.


 

 Would you recomend the Asgard + Bifrost as the first external DAC+amp for the noob here (myself), to use with the DT880-250 and the K550?


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





rlarsen462 said:


> Well I got the Bifrost and Valhalla today and needless to say I am blown away by the sound, pretty much everything from Pink Floyd to deadmau5 sounds unbelievable. I'm not enough of an audiophile to use fancy terms to describe how good it sounds but it was money well spent!


 
   
  Congrats


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





jhelsas said:


> Would you recomend the Asgard + Bifrost as the first external DAC+amp for the noob here (myself), to use with the DT880-250 and the K550?


 

 Yes...I have Senn hd 800 and it drives great!  Asgard will drive yours too..


----------



## Lee Harvey

Congrats rlarsen462!  I have the Lyr and have played the tube-rolling game.  I was able to listen to the Valhalla at CanJam.  I was going to go down the Ortho path but have decided to stick with my HD600/HD650's.  If I was going to purchase a Schiit amp again it would be the Valhalla over the Lyr.  For the Sennheiser headphones the Valhalla has more warmth, bloom and soundstage over the Lyr.  I think you made the right choice.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jhelsas*
> 
> 
> 
> Would you recomend the Asgard + Bifrost as the first external DAC+amp for the noob here (myself), to use with the DT880-250 and the K550?


 
  The Asgard pairs wonderfully with the 880s (250 ohm).
   
  I don't have the Bifrost, but I've got to assume that it would sound excellent.


----------



## amandarae

Quote: 





rlarsen462 said:


> Hello all, just joined the forum after picking up an HD 650 (and annoying my wife with the open back design which is part of the allure).  Love the headphones, but I've only been listening to them through a NuForce Icon-2 that I plan on returning.  I am awaiting delivery of a Bifrost and Valhalla, but with all the talk of the Lyr (I waffled pretty bad between Valhalla and Lyr) makes me wonder if I made the right decision.
> 
> I suppose the best remedy is to just listen to the Valhalla as much as a I can and if I'm not a fan try out the Lyr?  Is there anything I would specifically be missing with the Valhalla over the Lyr?  I should note I have never listened to a tube amp either with full size loudspeakers or headphones.



 My take, and my personal opinions only regarding Schiit Lyr and Valhalla.
  
 Not sure if you will be missing anything choosing the Valhalla with just the HD-650.  But IMO the Lyr is more versatile spec-wise than the Valhalla in case you change headphones or use the unit as a preamp.
  
 Zout=25 ohms as compared to 1 ohm for the Lyr - for best result on the Valhalla, headphones paired with it should not go below 250 ohms(HD-650 is from 300 to 530 if I recall correctly).  The Lyr, has more flexibility range-wise, as per spec, it will perform as designed as long as the impedance is not lower than 8 Ohms(even a 16 ohm speakers with mid sensitivity of 95-96 dB will probably be okay to drive).  
  
 Power=30 Vpp(~2W, 33 dB) for the Valhalla and (36dB, ~4W) for the Lyr.  IMO, not only the Lyr provides much higher headroom but will also drive amps, if use as a preamp, much better than the Valhalla because it can sink more current to the load.  Also, on preamp use, the OTL is more "sensitive" to impedance swing of the load compared to other amplifier topologies if I am not mistaken.
  
  I have an OTL amp that I love (not the Valhalla) and of course the Lyr/Bifrost combo.  My 40-60 ohms headphone although sounds good with OTL amp, I feel that it can be improved at times but with the Lyr, it sounds exceptional to me.  If I do not listen to rock and pop, OTL amp is more than enough for me as it is smooth and "tubey".   For me, IMHO, even if I only have the HD650, I find the Lyr a much sound(no pun intended!) investment because of what it has that the Valhalla does not in terms of power.  As for "smooth and more info on the top", the Lyr is a chameleon with the tubes being use on them.  IME, I would say that you can get both the "smoother" and "higher detail" presentation but with much better bass grip by finding the right tubes for the Lyr tailored to your preference.
  
 Again, what I wrote above is my "personal take" only of course.  Whatever you decide to get, I am sure it will be fun with the HD-650!
  
 **My Schiit amp/DAC combo below using Herbie's Tenderfoot that I bought from my old speaker project before.  I choose them over isolation cones (as I got plenty of those of different sizes from StillPoints up to BDR Racing cones) for the ease, stability, and convenience it provides when plugging and un-plugging headphones.
  Cheers


----------



## jhelsas

Quote: 





skyline315 said:


> The Asgard pairs wonderfully with the 880s (250 ohm).
> 
> I don't have the Bifrost, but I've got to assume that it would sound excellent.


 

  Thanks very much for the info.
   They would be taking the place of a xonar stx, to be sold as soon as I buy it's replacement.
   
   I'm realy interested now for the asgard + bifrost combo...


----------



## Slowfade

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> Congrats rlarsen462!  I have the Lyr and have played the tube-rolling game.  I was able to listen to the Valhalla at CanJam.  I was going to go down the Ortho path but have decided to stick with my HD600/HD650's.  If I was going to purchase a Schiit amp again it would be the Valhalla over the Lyr.  For the Sennheiser headphones the Valhalla has more warmth, bloom and soundstage over the Lyr.  I think you made the right choice.


 
  I purchased a Bifrost/Lyr combo over the summer thinking I would quickly pick up a LCD-2, but the new rig improved my Senn HD-600's so much that I've paused on that idea. I may still go for it at some later date, but the Bifrost/Lyr/HD-600 is a fantastic set up. You may be well right about the Valhalla, but I'm not complaining


----------



## olddtfan

Well I just ordered the asgard to use with my Sen HD 650s I hope its a good buy.


----------



## hodgjy

You will not regret it.
   
  Quote: 





olddtfan said:


> Well I just ordered the asgard to use with my Sen HD 650s I hope its a good buy.


----------



## Y2HBK

Fed Ex tried to deliver my Mjolnir + Gungnir (for my HD800s) yesterday but I was at work. I had no tracking/shipping info from Schiit so I didnt even know it was on the way. I'll be picking it up from their office on Monday. 
   
  Unfortunately, I'm still waiting on my cables from BTG-Audio so it doesnt matter anyway. The wait will be torture.


----------



## barbz

Can anyone comment on the pairing of a valhalla and DT880 250Ohm?
   
  Thanks
  Paul


----------



## Austin Morrow

Quote: 





barbz said:


> Can anyone comment on the pairing of a valhalla and DT880 250Ohm?
> 
> Thanks
> Paul


 
   
  A bit sibilant for me, but overall a good match.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





olddtfan said:


> Well I just ordered the asgard to use with my Sen HD 650s I hope its a good buy.


 

 yes good buy...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  cheers


----------



## dece870717

Bifrost + Lyr + HE-500 = More than I'll ever want, very content with this setup! Mostly listen to Electronica/Dance/Club music and I love the punch I get in the mids and clarity in the highs. Found my perfect combo but still one thing to get right is to find out which tube's will give me that perfect balance that I want in my music. One set I have gives more of a boomy sound in the lows but losses clarity, the other gives the opposite. Was hearing a lot of good things about the Telefunken E288CC tubes, so I caved and bought a set, can't wait to hear them out!


----------



## jhelsas

I read that the asgard can deform some headphones's diaphragms while turning down, can anyone with an asgard confirm this for me?


----------



## DTrewwye

Quote: 





jhelsas said:


> I read that the asgard can deform some headphones's diaphragms while turning down, can anyone with an asgard confirm this for me?


 
  Last I heard, there have been relays added in to prevent such deformation.  Can someone more knowledgeable than me please confirm?


----------



## paradoxper

There have been. Such the same as Lyr: 20 second relay-switched delayed output and immediate relay mute on turn-off.


----------



## Raser

Quote: 





dtrewwye said:


> Last I heard, there have been relays added in to prevent such deformation.  Can someone more knowledgeable than me please confirm?


 
  Yes there is the relay. They added the relay pretty soon after the first problems occured..


----------



## jhelsas

Quote: 





raser said:


> Yes there is the relay. They added the relay pretty soon after the first problems occured..


 

  So, it's safe now to say there haven't been anyone lately with damaged headphones from the asgard? (I know isn't healthy to plug a sensitive headphone on the lyr, but my interest is only on the asgard).
   
   I was wondering how the Bifrost + Asgard combo fares against the Centrance DACmini CX, since the latter isn't much more expensive than the schiit combo.
   
   Have anyone put them on a side by side comparison?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jhelsas said:


> So, it's safe now to say there haven't been anyone lately with damaged headphones from the asgard? (I know isn't healthy to plug a sensitive headphone on the lyr, but my interest is only on the asgard).
> 
> I was wondering how the Bifrost + Asgard combo fares against the Centrance DACmini CX, since the latter isn't much more expensive than the schiit combo.
> 
> Have anyone put them on a side by side comparison?


 
  No, it's fine. And the Asgard problem was limited. It was however blown out of proportion, but it's fixed.
  Sensitive headphones will work on Lyr with care on the pot, but it's not optimal.


----------



## grokit

paradoxper said:


> There have been. Such the same as Lyr: 20 second relay-switched delayed output and immediate relay mute on turn-off.




I'm really glad they added those relays, but the used market for the Lyr and Asgard remains somewhat of a cr@pshoot because of this.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm really glad they added those relays, but the used market for the Lyr and Asgard remains somewhat of a cr@pshoot because of this.


 
  Well, I'd say only for the earlier batches. But I see your point. I don't ever hear about the relay being inquired about in F/S listings.


----------



## Defiant00

grokit said:


> I'm really glad they added those relays, but the used market for the Lyr and Asgard remains somewhat of a cr@pshoot because of this.




Or you can just unplug your headphones before turning it off. I agree it isn't ideal, but it really isn't at all difficult to deal with.

I also recall that Jason posted here right after it came up indicating that they had done lots of power cycles with a pair of HD650s and they're still working fine (I think he said it was the pair that they used to test all of their Asgards, so that was probably a lot of power cycles).

But with that said they did add the relay; I still always unplug my headphones first then switch off the amp then the DAC, but you shouldn't have any problems if you leave them plugged in.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm really glad they added those relays, but the used market for the Lyr and Asgard remains somewhat of a cr@pshoot because of this.


 
   
  As of this point in time:
   
  1. As far as we know, all early Asgard owners have been notified, and all who wanted the relay mute have it. A lot of people don't want relays. Of course, others still trickle in from secondhand and thirdhand owners. Relays have been in place since August 2011. If you want to know if an Asgard has a relay, ask the owner if there's a noticeable click 15-20 seconds after it powers up.
   
  2. Only about 10% of total Lyr production went out without a relay. However, although early Lyr owners were notified, the take rate on the relay addition is very low. Most don't want it. Again, if you want to know if it has the relay, ask the owner about the click.
   
  3. If you were not notified, or if you buy an early production Lyr or Asgard that has not had the relay added, the offer stands to retrofit any of them, from any owner (original or second/third/fourth/etc hand) for free. You only pay for shipping.


----------



## jhelsas

This latter discussion wouldn't apply in my case, if I choose the asgard, I would buy it new, probably from schiit.com directly.
  Thanks for the answer guys.
   
  I'm still searching (and wondering) about the Bifrost + Asgards vs DacMini CX


----------



## paradoxper

Jason's always on the case to clarify.


----------



## olddtfan

Thats why I am buying the Asgard they stand behind there products.


----------



## MickeyVee

Awesome!! Jason, is the serial number any indication? Mine is Lyr - SCH03D/000396 (purchased 2nd hand)?
  With the relay in, could I leave my HD700 plugged in all the time? Right now, I disconnect before power off and reconnect 20-30 seconds after power on. PIA but dont want to kill a $1K set pf phones. Would be nice if I could keep them plugged in all the time.
  Thank, M.
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> 2. Only about 10% of total Lyr production went out without a relay. However, although early Lyr owners were notified, the take rate on the relay addition is very low. Most don't want it. Again, if you want to know if it has the relay, ask the owner about the click.
> 
> 3. If you were not notified, or if you buy an early production Lyr or Asgard that has not had the relay added, the offer stands to retrofit any of them, from any owner (original or second/third/fourth/etc hand) for free. You only pay for shipping.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Awesome!! Jason, is the serial number any indication? Mine is Lyr - SCH03D/000396 (purchased 2nd hand)?
> With the relay in, could I leave my HD700 plugged in all the time? Right now, I disconnect before power off and reconnect 20-30 seconds after power on. PIA but dont want to kill a $1K set pf phones. Would be nice if I could keep them plugged in all the time.
> Thank, M.


 
  You should still get a transient bump even with relay. But it's low.


----------



## rlarsen462

By the way, a couple more days under my belt listening to the Bifrost/Valhalla combo (and I only have Sennheiser HD 650 remember), and I really don't think my (attenuated, tinnitus-ridden) ears could discern much improvement, it sounds so good already.  If I ever get stupid and buy something more demanding headphone-wise, maybe I'll just have to buy a Lyr, too.


----------



## barbz

Hi all,

I'm looking to purchase a bifrost and lyr for my headphones, whole system powered via optical from my Mac.

That said at times I do like to use some simple powered speakers for certain things, can I simply plug these into the RCA output of the lyr? Or am I better off putting a RCA splitter in between the two and plug them in there?

Speakers are a cheap set of powered Logitech ones with volume control (I note the RCA out on the lyr is controlled by the volume POT).
Thanks
Paul


----------



## cthalupa

Love my Bifrost -> Lyr -> 701 setup. Think I'll be getting an LCD-2 soon after having a chance to hear it with the Schiit stack, and maybe upgrade to the statement dac/amp and an LCD-3 in the future.

Not a ton of real input, but just another schiity fan chiming in


----------



## hodgjy

It all depends on which sound you prefer. Coming out of the amp, the sound will be slightly colored, and it will be less colored from the DAC. Try it both ways and see what you like most. But, I wouldn't use a splitter of the DAC. Unplug the Lyr and plug in the speakers.



barbz said:


> Hi all,
> I'm looking to purchase a bifrost and lyr for my headphones, whole system powered via optical from my Mac.
> That said at times I do like to use some simple powered speakers for certain things, can I simply plug these into the RCA output of the lyr? Or am I better off putting a RCA splitter in between the two and plug them in there?
> Speakers are a cheap set of powered Logitech ones with volume control (I note the RCA out on the lyr is controlled by the volume POT).
> ...


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It all depends on which sound you prefer. Coming out of the amp, the sound will be slightly colored, and it will be less colored from the DAC. Try it both ways and see what you like most. But, I wouldn't use a splitter of the DAC. Unplug the Lyr and plug in the speakers.


 
   
  Thats something I always wondered about, do you feel the splitter degrades the sound or is there some other issue?


----------



## hodgjy

Splitters can degrade the signal, and if the impedances are off, you can have some very strange results.
   
  Quote: 





asmoday said:


> Thats something I always wondered about, do you feel the splitter degrades the sound or is there some other issue?


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Splitters can degrade the signal, and if the impedances are off, you can have some very strange results.


 
   
  Thanks, I was thinking of using some sort of splitter for my Bifrost but I guess it will just stay with the Lyr and I will split the cheaper DAC to the other amps.
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## olddtfan

YAY my Asgard is shipping today cant wait for it to get here.


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





olddtfan said:


> YAY my Asgard is shipping today cant wait for it to get here.


 
   
  Very nice, its always a slow wait refreshing the Fed-Ex website.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





olddtfan said:


> YAY my Asgard is shipping today cant wait for it to get here.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





asmoday said:


> Very nice, its always a slow wait refreshing the Fed-Ex website.


 

 hey!! we should make a Asgard Club!!


----------



## grokit

cthalupa said:


> Love my Bifrost -> Lyr -> 701 setup. Think I'll be getting an LCD-2 soon after having a chance to hear it with the Schiit stack, and maybe upgrade to the statement dac/amp and an LCD-3 in the future.
> 
> Not a ton of real input, but just another schiity fan chiming in




Agreed that the Lyr really makes the K701 sing, congrats!


----------



## cthalupa

I've used shielded splitters before without negative effect that I could discern, so if you're willing to try it out and see, I'd suggest something like the Emotiva RCA splitters. I certainly wouldn't use any of the cheapo unshielded Y cables though
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Agreed that the Lyr really makes the K701 sing, congrats!


 
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





asmoday said:


> Thats something I always wondered about, do you feel the splitter degrades the sound or is there some other issue?


 
   
  There's always the possibility but in real terms, there should be no discernible difference.  If there is an SQ effect, it should be more analogous to using different cables than "better or worse."
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Splitters can degrade the signal, and if the impedances are off, you can have some very strange results.


 
   
  Are you sure about that?  Split signals are overwhelmingly common.  Yeah, if the impedances are off, that's trouble, but as a rule...so just use well matched cables!
   
  Quote: 





asmoday said:


> Thanks, I was thinking of using some sort of splitter for my Bifrost but I guess it will just stay with the Lyr and I will split the cheaper DAC to the other amps.
> 
> Thanks again.


 
   
  I wouldn't worry about it.  I've been running my Bifrosts with Audioquest Y splitters (I originally used them because they were the shortest cable I could find in the pre-Pyst days...)  for a long time.  If there was any degredation, it wasn't detectable to me.  I also made some changes to my HE-6 setup yesterday (added the HE-Adapter (resistor box) to my big Marantz power amp, replacing my Black Dragon banana->XLR cable with some huge Signal Cable speaker cables, and added some BJC Y-splitters to my WDS-1's balanced XLR outs to prepare for splitting it to the incoming Mjolnir and the Marantz (the unbalanced outs go to Lyr, the other Lyr's on a Bifrost, and the other Bifrost has been moved but not connected yet to the speaker rig.)  The result of adding the splitters not only did not degrade the sound but the sound improved a bit.  Granted, it didn't improve because I added splitters, but because I added resistance to the chain via both the -3dB loss of the splitter plus the resistor box (HE-Adapter), I'm more into the power curve of the amp and sending a stronger signal from the DAC (less attenuation all around, better SNR, better fine volume control.)  The point is the splitters didn't create magic harm to the signal.  Just get good quality ones, and you'll be fine.
   
  What you _will_ see is a -3dB signal level loss when using a Y-splitter.  With Lyr I don't see that as a disadvantage...anything that buys a little more play in the volume knob is a plus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Agreed that the Lyr really makes the K701 sing, congrats!


 
  +2!


----------



## olddtfan

Cool  Ideal.


----------



## olddtfan

The Asgaed is on its way.


----------



## olddtfan

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> hey!! we should make a Asgard Club!!


 
  Cool Ideal


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





olddtfan said:


> The Asgaed is on its way.


 
  Set for delivery today? I mean, you could wait 1 more day.


----------



## fert

Got my Asgard and Bifrost for a few weeks now and really have to say that I am in love with both of them


----------



## Diseree

I have Valhalla. Its sound is very high speed and wide ranged. I use Valhalla with HD650, and it works very fine. I was impressed by very nice looking and durability.


----------



## Y2HBK

Arrrrgh!!! My Mjolnir + Gungnir have been sitting for 2 days in my home office. Unfortunately, I cant do much with them because Im still waiting on cables from BTG-Audio. It sounds like they are still about 1.5-2 weeks out before I get my cables 
   
  For giggles, because I have the adapters on hand and I was too damn impatient... I ran a dual male XLR to single female XLR > single male XLR to 3.5mm jack > HD800 just to see if I could get a taste. Whew, what a mistake. Not only did it sound dreadful, but I had horrid buzz/hum at zero volume. Guess thats what I get for being so impatient. I'm *hoping* that the buzz/hum is just from my mental disorder that I have with waiting for my cables to get here and being impatient and *not* the equipment itself. :/


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> As of this point in time:
> 
> 1. As far as we know, all early Asgard owners have been notified, and all who wanted the relay mute have it. A lot of people don't want relays. Of course, others still trickle in from secondhand and thirdhand owners. Relays have been in place since August 2011. If you want to know if an Asgard has a relay, ask the owner if there's a noticeable click 15-20 seconds after it powers up.
> 
> ...


 
  This kind of customer-intimate engagement with the community is icing on the cake for the great products Schiit make. That plus the 5-year warranty make the schiit products awesome value. 
   
  Still waiting for my Lyr from Oz. That, with the Bifrost and Asgard already on my desk should keep me happy for a loooong looooong time.


----------



## NZheadcase

Does anyone have a Bifrost to Asgard AND Lyr setup?
   
  I was told y-splitters will do it with only minimal degradation. If yes, by how much? Also, what cables and splitters would you recommend I use?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





nzheadcase said:


> Does anyone have a Bifrost to Asgard AND Lyr setup?
> 
> I was told y-splitters will do it with only minimal degradation. If yes, by how much? Also, what cables and splitters would you recommend I use?


 
   
  I've run my Bifrost split to Lyr and another non-Schiit amp for a long time.  I also added splitters to my balanced non-Schiit other DAC for splitting one side to Mjolnir and one side to my speaker amp.  This resulted in improved quality, not because of the split, but because of other changes I made at the same time.  Point being: It didn't harm the performance and allowed the upgrade to still show an upgrade.   Y-splitters, while theoretically some degradation could occur, for the run lengths we're talking about I don't see any real chance of problems except in the case of sucktastic cables.  There is a slight signal level loss (read: not quality, just overall level meaning turning the volume knob up the width of a human hair or so fixes it.)  If there's "degradation" it's far off in audiophile la la land.
   
  Good splitters?  I've been using AudioQuest y splitters for the Bifrost....they're cheap(ish), pretty, and work fine.  They're a bit stiff (solid conductor.)
   
  For the balanced XLR splitters I got some 1ft ones from Blue Jeans.  The balanced stuff is a little pricier, but nice quality all around. They make a nice RCA y-split from their MSA-1 cable as well. Nice thing with a custom split like BJC is you don't have to run another cable from the female split to the amp, you can just get it made up to have male connectors of different lengths on each side, so you can plug the split right into both amps...depends on how you want your run to work. 
   
  No doubt someone will say "monoprice!"....it'll work...if that's your sort of thing.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've never been fond of their physical build, but in a pinch I'll use them.


----------



## barbz

To those of you using the pre-outs on the LYR do you keep your amp or anything connected to the pre-out off until the LYR has warmed up (20 seconds) or do you just turn everything on at the same time?
   
  Ive just seen in the manual it says "Lyr can be used as a high-quality preamp. Please note that the preamp outputs are not muted—turn Lyr on at least 20 seconds before turning on your power amp, and turn your amp off before you turn off your Lyr."
   
  What happens if I just turn everything on/off at once?
   
  Cheers
  Paul


----------



## NZheadcase

Thanks for the detailed reply IEMCrazy!  Found several retailers of AudioQuest cables here where I am. Gonna probably get those if I find them for a good price.
   
  Still waiting for the Lyr delivery though. it's not actually the lyr but other products holding the delivery. Arrgh!  Waiting is a **tch.


----------



## MuZI

I figured I would ask you guys before making an entire thread about it...
   
  I have a pair of AKG K272HD headphones I just got and want to pair them with a Schiit amp.
   
  I wanted to get a Valhalla but after reading reviews a few mentioned the Asgard prefers lower impedence phones while the Valhalla likes higher impedence ones.
   
  So do I get the Valhalla or Asgard? The $ difference between the 2 isn't an issue.


----------



## hodgjy

Asgard or Lyr for all headphones-- low or high impedance.
Valhalla for high impedance headphones.

I love how my Asgard drives any headphone I throw at it, including my 600 ohm set.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Asgard or Lyr for all headphones-- low or high impedance.
> Valhalla for high impedance headphones.
> I love how my Asgard drives any headphone I throw at it, including my 600 ohm set.


 

 Yes, the asgard made my hd 800 sing!


----------



## Loevhagen

The Gungnir / Mjolnir is quite good. Very good. Splitting them up; it becomes evident that the Mjolnir is the "bright" sounding part and the Gungnir is the "dark" sounding part.


----------



## MuZI

Just ordered the Bifrost + Asgard combo.
   
  Now the wait


----------



## amandarae

Quote: 





barbz said:


> To those of you using the pre-outs on the LYR do you keep your amp or anything connected to the pre-out off until the LYR has warmed up (20 seconds) or do you just turn everything on at the same time?
> 
> Ive just seen in the manual it says "Lyr can be used as a high-quality preamp. Please note that the preamp outputs are not muted—turn Lyr on at least 20 seconds before turning on your power amp, and turn your amp off before you turn off your Lyr."
> 
> ...


 
  Just make sure the main amp(when using the Schiit as preamp) is OFF, then turn the Lyr ON,wait a about 15 seconds(if equipped with the relay) or more before turning the main amp ON.  It is best to turn the main amp ON last in any audio system IMO.
   
  If you examine a "Switched" UPS or power conditioner, one thing is common.  The outlet marked "Main Amp" or "Amp" has the longest delay compared to other outlets (ie. Digital, Preamp, Processor, etc.)after the power switch for the unit is activated.  This is to prevent any spike/surge to be amplified by the amp so that it does not reach the load(transducer).  The analogy is true for a HP system as well.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





muzi said:


> Just ordered the Bifrost + Asgard combo.
> 
> Now the wait


 

 Congrats!


----------



## amandarae

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Y-splitters, while theoretically some degradation could occur, f*or the run lengths we're talking about* I don't see any real chance of problems except in the case of sucktastic cables.  There is a slight signal level loss (read: not quality, just overall level meaning turning the volume knob up the width of a human hair or so fixes it.)  If there's "degradation" it's far off in audiophile la la land.


 
  Bingo!
   
  IMO: When you split the line level signal, voltage remains the same, current is halved.  Amps input sensitivity is measured at Input Volts to reach maximum rated power, not input current!  So yes, I too do not believe that there will be signal degradation either in terms of quality but only of magnitude.  Since most amps have an input Z much higher than the source, this scenario will not be a problem, unless the input impedance of the load(amps input Z) is considerably much lower than the output impedance of the source driving it.  That is because it will take a lot of power (actually doubled) to have the same amount of voltage when the current is 1/2 of its original value.  When that happens, there will be degradation as distortion is proportional to the output magnitude on any active devices.  IMO.


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





muzi said:


> Just ordered the Bifrost + Asgard combo.
> 
> Now the wait


 

 Very nice, congrats!!


----------



## jhelsas

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Congrats!


 
   
   
  Quote: 





muzi said:


> Just ordered the Bifrost + Asgard combo.
> 
> Now the wait


 
   
  How long is the wait, in avarege, btw?
   
  Do anyone knows?
   
  It would be shipping them for New York City.
   
  The question is more like if the shipping is within a week range or a month range.
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## olddtfan

Quote: 





jhelsas said:


> How long is the wait, in avarege, btw?
> 
> Do anyone knows?
> 
> ...


 
  It was 3 days for ohio.


----------



## Angular Mo

*BiFrost > iBasso P4 Warbler*
   
  anyone else using this on their desktop?
   
  Or, am I just missing out on too much?
   
  I can't afford the Lyr just yet.... I will skip the Valhalla, evidently they are good only for high impedance cans.
   
  I doubt I will go to the Ortho end of headphones...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





angular mo said:


> *BiFrost > iBasso P4 Warbler*
> 
> anyone else using this on their desktop?
> 
> ...


 
  Often eaten words.


----------



## Destroyer95

I got my Lyr about 2 weeks ago and I have to say, I really like it with the He 500


----------



## asmoday

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Often eaten words.


 
   
  So true, I said the same thing, till 2 weeks ago. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





destroyer95 said:


> I got my Lyr about 2 weeks ago and I have to say, I really like it with the He 500


 
  I got my combo about the same time, and my sentiments exactly, sure there is probably better out there but I am happy enough I don't see a need to upgrade it anytime soon......I hope


----------



## Destroyer95

Quote: 





asmoday said:


> So true, I said the same thing, till 2 weeks ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah same here  I was coming from an Akg K550 and it was a huge change.
  A Bifrost would be nice but that would be too much for the moment


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Often eaten words.


 
  Yep. As I found out myself.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





cthalupa said:


> Yep. As I found out myself.


 
  Haha. Yea, I just read you ordered some LCD's. Who said being wrong can't be soo much fun.


----------



## MuZI

So I'm getting my stuff soon. What type of optical cable should I get?

Are these good:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2

What about RCA cables?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





muzi said:


> So I'm getting my stuff soon. What type of optical cable should I get?
> Are these good:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2
> What about RCA cables?


 
  Those will be fine. Pickup your RCA's at monoprice while you're at it.
   
  Later down the road you can experiment with more cables and decide if you're in the camp of cables matter or not.


----------



## MuZI

paradoxper said:


> Those will be fine. Pickup your RCA's at monoprice while you're at it.
> 
> Later down the road you can experiment with more cables and decide if you're in the camp of cables matter or not.




Only problem is the reviews for the premium RCA cables they have say they fit too tightly.

WIll normal RCA cables I have laying around be OK?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





muzi said:


> Only problem is the reviews for the premium RCA cables they have say they fit too tightly.
> WIll normal RCA cables I have laying around be OK?


 
  I've never experienced problems with mono's cables before.
   
  And they should be.


----------



## MuZI

You would think after being a member for 8 years I'd know these things.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





muzi said:


> You would think after being a member for 8 years I'd know these things.


 
  Haha. Maybe, but not necessarily. We all learn new things everyday.


----------



## amandarae

Quote: 





muzi said:


> So I'm getting my stuff soon. What type of optical cable should I get?
> Are these good:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2764&seq=1&format=2
> What about RCA cables?


 
  I am using the 1.5 ft length of this and I have no complaints.


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Haha. Yea, I just read you ordered some LCD's. Who said being wrong can't be soo much fun.


 

 I know... I'm sitting here thinking I should start saving for the 'statement' gear from Schiit as well, and contemplating what other cans I want to get... I wonder if my boss will accept "Because music" as a valid reason for me requesting a raise to pay for all of it?
   
  Still need to snag some more tubes for the Lyr on top of everything else, too! And I'm eying some of the Norse cables for the LCDs, purely for aesthetic reasons, and wanting my audio chain to be even more norse mythological


----------



## skyline315

I posted this in the Asgard thread, but this one seems to get a little more traffic:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Alright, folks, looking for a little education here.
> 
> I'm still relatively new to the whole headphone game (been going for a coulpe of years now). While I've learned a lot about what I like over that time, I'm still learning a lot about good and bad synergy between certain headphones and amps.
> 
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





cthalupa said:


> I know... I'm sitting here thinking I should start saving for the 'statement' gear from Schiit as well, and contemplating what other cans I want to get... I wonder if my boss will accept "Because music" as a valid reason for me requesting a raise to pay for all of it?
> 
> Still need to snag some more tubes for the Lyr on top of everything else, too! And I'm eying some of the Norse cables for the LCDs, purely for aesthetic reasons, and wanting my audio chain to be even more norse mythological


 
  You should only consider the statement gear if you have speakers. One of the most popular rigs these days is the HiFiMan HE-6 paired
  with a speaker amp. Better yet tell him you are too poor to feed your starving habit and if the man has a heart, he'll have no problem giving a raise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I honestly hadn't even put the Norse Audio and Schiit thing together..Norse wise. Haha.


----------



## jhelsas

Do anyone know a direct comparison between the Bifrost, the Peachtree Dac-iT and the Musical Fidelity V-DAC mkii(and other dacs in the same pricerange)?


----------



## MuZI

Wow... my stuff just came in today. Unfortunately the optical cable I ordered isn't here yet...


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





muzi said:


> Wow... my stuff just came in today. Unfortunately the optical cable I ordered isn't here yet...


 

 just go to bestbuy and buy it now....When you receive your cable...then return it to bestbuy.


----------



## MuZI

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> just go to bestbuy and buy it now....When you receive your cable...then return it to bestbuy.


 
   
  As much as I hate best buy I'd rather not do that to them.
   
  I have the amp hooked up to my laptop for now and it sounds pretty awesome.


----------



## hodgjy

Very unethical and just not cool.



gmahler2u said:


> just go to bestbuy and buy it now....When you receive your cable...then return it to bestbuy.


----------



## gmahler2u

just a suggestion...


----------



## grokit

So what about the upcoming statement DAC. Will it have HDMI and/or AES/EBU inputs, does anyone know?


----------



## Mediahound

hodgjy said:


> Asgard or Lyr for all headphones-- low or high impedance.
> Valhalla for high impedance headphones.
> I love how my Asgard drives any headphone I throw at it, including my 600 ohm set.




Between these , which is best for what type of headphones and which is the most versatile?

I understand the Lyr cranks out a whopping 6 watts so I assume it would be best for planar magnetic headphones like the LCD2s or Hifimans but can it also work for low ohm cans like Denon d7000s?

How does the Asgard do?


----------



## Mediahound

Also, do these have a switch when you plug in headphones, does it turn off the RCA line out?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Between these , which is best for what type of headphones and which is the most versatile?
> I understand the Lyr cranks out a whopping 6 watts so I assume it would be best for planar magnetic headphones like the LCD2s or Hifimans but can it also work for low ohm cans like Denon d7000s?
> How does the Asgard do?


 
   
  Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Also, do these have a switch when you plug in headphones, does it turn off the RCA line out?


 
   
  I own the Asgard and have listened to the Lyr with various tubes for a few hours and here's what I found (ymmv as usual):
   
*Grados, Shure 840s and Denons* - I would pick the Asgard. Since these are all sensitive I typically don't go past around 9 o'clock.
*AKG K701* - This is the hardest to drive set of cans I've tried on both and on the Asgard I had to turn it up to 10-11 o'clock. Both amps go loud enough, but only the Lyr with the right tubes made these listenable to me (has more to do with their treble than any lack of power though).
*HD600s and LCD-2* - The LCD-2s sensitivity keeps surprising me, as it's about as easy to drive as the HD600s and easier than the K701. The LCD-2s were the primary cans I used when trying out the Lyr, and honestly the best that I heard it (trying out different tubes) just sounded the same to me as my Asgard. I do tend to favor clean SS amplification, so if you prefer tube distortion (or like the idea of tube rolling) then the Lyr might be better for you, but the Asgard drives both of these remarkably well. With both I do my normal listening at around 9 and 10 is quite loud.
   
  So at least for my cans and desired listening level the Asgard is excellent. The Lyr is also very good (and I had no problems using it with more sensitive cans), but to my ears I actually found the Asgard as good or better than the Lyr depending on the tubes.
   
  Oh, and for a fun anecdote, we tried running the K1000s off of the Lyr; had to turn it literally all the way up to get any real volume. Unfortunately I forgot to try it with the Asgard at the time, but I think we all know how that would have gone.
   
   
  To the best of my knowledge the RCA line outs are always active on the Lyr.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I own the Asgard and have listened to the Lyr with various tubes for a few hours and here's what I found (ymmv as usual):
> 
> *Grados, Shure 840s and Denons* - I would pick the Asgard. Since these are all sensitive I typically don't go past around 9 o'clock.
> *AKG K701* - This is the hardest to drive set of cans I've tried on both and on the Asgard I had to turn it up to 10-11 o'clock. Both amps go loud enough, but only the Lyr with the right tubes made these listenable to me (has more to do with their treble than any lack of power though).
> ...


 
  Thanks, sorta sounds like the Asgard may be the way to go if I don't want to get into fooling around with swapping out tubes.


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Thanks, sorta sounds like the Asgard may be the way to go *if I don't want to get into fooling around with swapping out tubes. *


 
  That's part of the fun!
   
  Just ordered some Mullards for mine


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





cthalupa said:


> That's part of the fun!
> 
> Just ordered some Mullards for mine


 
  I understand the appeal, don't get me wrong. But some just want the best sound possible without having to wonder what a different tube might sound like all the time. 
   
  On the other hand the Lyr outputs more power so I still can't decide!


----------



## Mediahound

If I go with the Lyr, which tubes should I get? This would be for the Audeze LCD2 and I also have Denon D7000 headphones. Additionally, I have Audioengine a5+ powered speakers.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Between these , which is best for what type of headphones and which is the most versatile?
> I understand the Lyr cranks out a whopping 6 watts so I assume it would be best for planar magnetic headphones like the LCD2s or Hifimans but can it also work for low ohm cans like Denon d7000s?
> How does the Asgard do?


 
   
  Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Thanks, sorta sounds like the Asgard may be the way to go if I don't want to get into fooling around with swapping out tubes.


 

 Agreed.  Denons and Lyr simply don't agree.  A few folks around her are lucky and find it works well, but the noise floor is simply too high for the super sensitive headphones.   It's lovely for everything else though!


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I understand the appeal, don't get me wrong. But some just want the best sound possible without having to wonder what a different tube might sound like all the time.
> 
> On the other hand the Lyr outputs more power so I still can't decide!


 
   
  For anything short of HE-6 or K1000 I've found the Asgard puts out more than enough power.


----------



## Mediahound

defiant00 said:


> For anything short of HE-6 or K1000 I've found the Asgard puts out more than enough power.




Can the Asgard drive the HD600 well? How about the HD800?

Part of my issue is that I'm swapping headphones often and I want an amp that can drive virtually all of them well, if possible. That said, I don't see myself getting into hifiman cans.


----------



## olddtfan

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Can the Asgard drive the HD600 well? How about the HD800?
> Part of my issue is that I'm swapping headphones often and I want an amp that can drive virtually all of them well, if possible. That said, I don't see myself getting into hifiman cans.


 
  It works really well with both.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Can the Asgard drive the HD600 well? How about the HD800?
> Part of my issue is that I'm swapping headphones often and I want an amp that can drive virtually all of them well, if possible. That said, I don't see myself getting into hifiman cans.


 
   
  HD600s were my cans before LCD-2 and it was an excellent pairing. I've heard that it'll drive the HD800s well but haven't had the opportunity to try it myself.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> HD600s were my cans before LCD-2 and it was an excellent pairing. I've heard that it'll drive the HD800s well but haven't had the opportunity to try it myself.


 
  Thanks for the info. !


----------



## Mediahound

Here's an interesting problem I will have to solve if I buy a Schiit; I want to use the preamp outs to go to my powered speakers (Audioengine A5+s) but I understand those are active even when you plug in headphones. But, I don't want sound coming out of the speakers when I'm using headphones, and it's a hassle to have to turn off the speakers every time I switch to headphone listening. 
   
  How should I solve this issue? Basically, I want the preamp RCA outs from the Schiit amp to not output anything when I'm using headphones.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Can the Asgard drive the HD600 well? How about the HD800?
> Part of my issue is that I'm swapping headphones often and I want an amp that can drive virtually all of them well, if possible. That said, I don't see myself getting into hifiman cans.


 
   
  Sure it can.  HD600 and HD800 are similar (with HD800 actually being a touch easier to drive) and they aren't really _that_ power hungry.  They're high impedance so they take a lot to get them moving, but they don't really use much current at all. 
   
  I'll say that Lyr happens to sound excellent with HD650/HD600, and is also darn good with HD800 (in the absence of Mjolnir.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ), and if you were interested in powering mostly those and deciding between those two amps, I'd not hesitate suggesting Lyr.  But if it's important to power Grados and Denons as well, Asgard is definitely the safer bet unless you plan on getting into HE-500.  HE-400 will work on any of them (though might sound a little better on the Lyr), and HE-6/HE-5LE....even Lyr lacks enough current to properly drive _those_ things.  Even Mjolnir can't deliver the full power rating HE-6 is specced for to reach peak output (not that you'd want to...) 
   
   
  Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> For anything short of HE-6 or K1000 I've found the Asgard puts out more than enough power.


 

 The grand irony: HE-6 takes more power than even Lyr puts out, and Lyr's too much power for most anything else!  That said, that extra push sounds darned good on the Sennheisers....


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Here's an interesting problem I will have to solve if I buy a Schiit; I want to use the preamp outs to go to my powered speakers (Audioengine A5+s) but I understand those are active even when you plug in headphones. But, I don't want sound coming out of the speakers when I'm using headphones, and it's a hassle to have to turn off the speakers every time I switch to headphone listening.
> 
> How should I solve this issue? Basically, I want the preamp RCA outs from the Schiit amp to not output anything when I'm using headphones.


 
  Better check your Schiit!!! 
   
  Not all Schiit amps have pre out.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Better check your Schiit!!!
> 
> Not all Schiit amps have pre out.


 
   
  You're right, the Asgard does not but the Lyr does have preamp out RCAs.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> You're right, the Asgard does not but the Lyr does have preamp out RCAs.


 
   
  You probably want to email Jason and ask, but I'm 90% sure there's no relay that cuts the pre-outs off when you plug headphones in.  I'm pretty sure they run concurrently.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> You're right, the Asgard does not but the Lyr does have preamp out RCAs.


 
   
  Yeah, if the preamp feature is of high importance to you then you're looking at the Lyr.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> You probably want to email Jason and ask, but I'm 90% sure there's no relay that cuts the pre-outs off when you plug headphones in.  I'm pretty sure they run concurrently.


 
  Right. 
   
  So is there some sort of RCA switch I can install after the Lyr preamp outs that would cut off the signal, or something like that?


----------



## amandarae

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Here's an interesting problem I will have to solve if I buy a Schiit; I want to use the preamp outs to go to my powered speakers (Audioengine A5+s) but I understand those are active even when you plug in headphones. But, I don't want sound coming out of the speakers when I'm using headphones, and it's a hassle to have to turn off the speakers every time I switch to headphone listening.
> 
> How should I solve this issue? Basically, I want the preamp RCA outs from the Schiit amp to not output anything when I'm using headphones.


 
  You can use a DPDT switch for the line level out of the Lyr going to your amp.  Tie one stereo side to ground(for both the Land R) channel.  The other side connects to the line level out/preamp out(stereo connected to the output of the Lyr).  When you switch to headphone, with volume control at maximum attenuation, flipping the switch to ground disconnects the preamp out from the Lyr(open circuit) and mutes or shorts the input to the amp to ground.  Flipping the other way after you disconnect the HP, allows the Lyr output line level signal to connect via the switch to the active speakers line level input.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





amandarae said:


> You can use a DPDT switch for the line level out of the Lyr going to your amp.  Tie one stereo side to ground(for both the Land R) channel.  The other side connects to the line level out/preamp out(stereo connected to the output of the Lyr).  When you switch to headphone, with volume control at maximum attenuation, flipping the switch to ground disconnects the preamp out from the Lyr(open circuit) and mutes or shorts the input to the amp to ground.  Flipping the other way after you disconnect the HP, allows the Lyr output line level signal to connect via the switch to the active speakers line level input.


 
   
  Is there some device I can buy that will do that for me? I'm not handy with electronics unfortunately. I just know how to buy them.


----------



## amandarae

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Is there some device I can buy that will do that for me? I'm not handy with electronics unfortunately. I just know how to buy them.


 
  Yes.  Just type "AV Switch" on the net and there are tons of it depending on your budget.  
   
  Here's one cheap http://www.amazon.com/RCA-DT902AV-2-Way-Switcher/dp/B0014KOAD8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1352937535&sr=8-9&keywords=audio+selector+switch  Radioshack also carries these selectors.  just type "2 Way A/V Selector" on the search box.  
   
  I could be wrong but most "Active" speakers have a line input sensor that monitors the level of the input before it turns ON the amplifier.It is better though in many cases where the input should be shorted (grounded) when it is not in use.  This is the reason why you see the ground connection on the diagram.  The switcher does not have it and maybe you do not need it.  If you do, just tie the + pins of the second set of output(your choice) to ground.
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





amandarae said:


> Yes.  Just type "AV Switch" on the net and there are tons of it depending on your budget.
> 
> Here's one cheap http://www.amazon.com/RCA-DT902AV-2-Way-Switcher/dp/B0014KOAD8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1352937535&sr=8-9&keywords=audio+selector+switch  Radioshack also carries these selectors.  just type "2 Way A/V Selector" on the search box.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't get why the Lyr plays sound out of the RCAs and the headphone jack at the same time. Shouldn't it be one or the other? Who would want to play music out of their speakers and headphones simultaneously? That seems like the opposite of what people would want. 
   
  I may just have to get a separate DAC like the $120. NuForce Icon uDAC-2 just to use for my powered speakers.
   
  Then, I would switch outputs from that DAC to the Bifrost DAC  in the OS on my computer depending on if I want to listen to headphones or the speakers...


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I don't get why the Lyr plays sound out of the RCAs and the headphone jack at the same time. Shouldn't it be one or the other? Who would want to play music out of their speakers and headphones simultaneously? That seems like the opposite of what people would want.


 
  Well, Schiit is probably just trying to keep the cost low. At $450, I wouldn't expect much more from the Lyr. Also, I think that many people would find it no big deal to flip a switch to off when changing from speakers to headphones. But that is just me. I have multiple sources and amps and usually have to flip a few switched and turn a couple knobs when changing my listening situation.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Well, Schiit is probably just trying to keep the cost low. At $450, I wouldn't expect much more from the Lyr. Also, I think that many people would find it no big deal to flip a switch to off when changing from speakers to headphones. But that is just me. I have multiple sources and amps and usually have to flip a few switched and turn a couple knobs when changing my listening situation.


 
   
  The problem is with a headphone amp that has a preamp, it's a double whammie; when you want to go to headphones, you have to flip your speakers/amplifier off AND when you want to go to speakers, you have to unplug the headphones. Seems like it will get pretty tedious. 
   
  It's true that more expensive DAC/amp units have a built in switch and I'd certainly be willing to pay like $100. more for this feature on the Lyr. 
   
  On my Grace m902 for example, it's as easy as the press of one button to switch outputs.


----------



## grokit

I don't think the issue is cost so much as the impurity of putting a switching relay into the signal path.


----------



## Mediahound

Is the preamp outs on the Lyr variable or just a pass through signal?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Here's an interesting problem I will have to solve if I buy a Schiit; I want to use the preamp outs to go to my powered speakers (Audioengine A5+s) but I understand those are active even when you plug in headphones. But, I don't want sound coming out of the speakers when I'm using headphones, and it's a hassle to have to turn off the speakers every time I switch to headphone listening.
> 
> How should I solve this issue? Basically, I want the preamp RCA outs from the Schiit amp to not output anything when I'm using headphones.


 
   
   
  This is what I use: 
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Woods-13568-Wireless-Control-3-Outlet/dp/B001Q9EFUU/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1352957242&sr=8-17&keywords=wireless+outlet
   
  I plug my powered monitors into one of these and keep the remote nearby while headphone-listening -- very handy.


----------



## eleathar

Just to say that my Asgard drives the Senn Hd 700 really well! I don't know if due to misinformation or because of the Asgard but I cannot hear none of those ear bleeding trebles many talk about.
I only hear a warm, clean sound that doesn't make me regret my Hd 598 at all!
And volume knob never goes past 10 o'clock


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Is the preamp outs on the Lyr variable or just a pass through signal?


 
   
  It is affected by the volume control if that's what you're asking.
   
  As always this is to the best of my knowledge; I'm sure someone else will chime in if I'm mistaken.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> This is what I use:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Woods-13568-Wireless-Control-3-Outlet/dp/B001Q9EFUU/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1352957242&sr=8-17&keywords=wireless+outlet
> 
> I plug my powered monitors into one of these and keep the remote nearby while headphone-listening -- very handy.


 
   
  Is it bad to just cut the power to amps while they are powered on though?


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Is it bad to just cut the power to amps while they are powered on though?


 
   
  Technically no.  I generally avoid doing that in most cases out of sheer paranoia.  However that's all the power switch really does, too, is just cuts the power.  And in speaker rigs it's entirely common to leave all devices switched "on" and turn them all on with a power center/filter/conditioner/isolator's main switch.


----------



## grokit

defiant00 said:


> mediahound said:
> 
> 
> > Is the preamp outs on the Lyr variable or just a pass through signal?
> ...




The Lyr preamp function is excellent, along with its ability to drive the K701. To me these are the two best uses for this amp.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Lyr preamp function is excellent, along with its ability to drive the K701. To me these are the two best uses for this amp.


 
  I'm looking forward to it. Placed my order for the Lyr and Bifrost yesterday.


----------



## barbz

Why not split the signal at your dac before the lyr?

That way you only turn the lyr on when you want head phones; or you turn on your active speakers\amp.... At least it gets around the not muting business.

Paul


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





barbz said:


> Why not split the signal at your dac before the lyr?
> That way you only turn the lyr on when you want head phones; or you turn on your active speakers\amp.... At least it gets around the not muting business.
> Paul


 
  That's an option but it doesn't solve the issue of me wanting no signal going to the speakers when using headphones so I would still have to turn off the speakers in that scenario. Also, controlling the volume on the speakers rather than on the Lyr is a lot less convenient.


----------



## barbz

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> That's an option but it doesn't solve the issue of me wanting no signal going to the speakers when using headphones so I would still have to turn off the speakers in that scenario. Also, controlling the volume on the speakers rather than on the Lyr is a lot less convenient.


 
  True..... I have a desktop amp for my passive speakers so it works perfectly in my case.
   
  Does the manufacturer of your speakers have a remote controller?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





barbz said:


> True..... I have a desktop amp for my passive speakers so it works perfectly in my case.
> 
> Does the manufacturer of your speakers have a remote controller?


 
  It does but the issue is the subwoofer does not, so while I could easily just turn the speakers off when I want to listen to headphones, the subwoofer would still sound. I guess my solution for now will be to add power cut off remote control to the subwoofer. 
   
  It would be nice if the Lyr did not output audio when headphones are plugged in though. My subwoofer goes to auto-sleep after 15 mins of no sound.


----------



## barbz

Depending on the board/component layout Schiit could replace the headphone jack with a switching one so that it mutes the line out's when the headphones are plugged in; although this may not appeal to some as it adds more components inline.
   
  My now replaced with a LYR, Maverick audio A1 does this but I has problems where the connector doesn't snap back correctly when the Hp's are unplugged which causes me to loose my left channel at times on the lineout..
   
  This is the part I am reffering to http://modulusamplification.com/14-JACK-SOCKET-SWITCHING-STEREO-P643388.aspx I know there are also sealed versions but I cant find an image/link.
   
  Paul


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> That's an option but it doesn't solve the issue of me wanting no signal going to the speakers when using headphones so I would still have to turn off the speakers in that scenario. Also, controlling the volume on the speakers rather than on the Lyr is a lot less convenient.


 
   
  And you wouldn't get to play with tube rolling with your speakers!


----------



## jhelsas

Do anyone know if there is much diference between the bifrost usb input and something like V-link II -> bifrost (spdif) ?
   
  If there isn't much of a diference, or if the V-link is better, I would be more inclined to get a non-usb bifrost for the price because the main computer it would be attached to alread have a spdif output (i belive it's a toslink), and would buy either an expansion card in the future or something like a V-link or V-link 192 (or any other equivalent option).


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





jhelsas said:


> Do anyone know if there is much diference between the bifrost usb input and something like V-link II -> bifrost (spdif) ?
> 
> If there isn't much of a diference, or if the V-link is better, I would be more inclined to get a non-usb bifrost for the price because the main computer it would be attached to alread have a spdif output (i belive it's a toslink), and would buy either an expansion card in the future or something like a V-link or V-link 192 (or any other equivalent option).


 
   
  Is it a laptop, or a desktop?  If it's a desktop, I'd save the $100 on Bifrost USB and just get a genuine soundcard with good digital output for probably half that money.  To me the only value to USB either natively or via a V-link is if you're stuck on a laptop and are reliant on USB-only.  Converting USB to S/PDIF out of a desktop seems remarkably silly since it takes 5 minutes and half the money to throw in a real soundcard that's S/PDIF from the start!


----------



## jhelsas

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Is it a laptop, or a desktop?  If it's a desktop, I'd save the $100 on Bifrost USB and just get a genuine soundcard with good digital output for probably half that money.  To me the only value to USB either natively or via a V-link is if you're stuck on a laptop and are reliant on USB-only.  Converting USB to S/PDIF out of a desktop seems remarkably silly since it takes 5 minutes and half the money to throw in a real soundcard that's S/PDIF from the start!


 

 So, my situation is the following
   
  I have desktop with a xonar STX soundcard, and I'm planning to chage it due to driver problems (both in windows and on linux, but mainly on linux). Although the STX have an spdif output, my motherboard (Asus Crosshair IV formula) also have, so my plan was to get the bifrost or similar without usb because of the spdif output.
   
  My option would be either to keep a external dac with usb input or to get an dac with just spdif input + a converter of some kind. I think it's kind dum to keep the stx just for it's spdif output since it's would be a waste of all the other resources it have, even though they are not "the best", they make me very happy when they are not causing me driver problems. Besides, I already have a friend who want to buy them as soon as I put them for sale.
   
  I'll think about your sugestion as for a simple soundcard just to use for spdif, although I'm not so sure because of the driver problems .....
   
  You would recomend something like what? Xonar DX?


----------



## grokit

I have the original Vlink, and the V192. The former is just okay, the latter is fantastic. I haven't listened to the Vlink II.


----------



## Mediahound

Question, is it safe to turn on the Lyr first and then plug in headphones? And then when I want to turn it off, unplug the headphones first?
   
  Is this the best way to operate?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Question, is it safe to turn on the Lyr first and then plug in headphones? And then when I want to turn it off, unplug the headphones first?
> 
> Is this the best way to operate?


 
  That's common safe practice.


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Question, is it safe to turn on the Lyr first and then plug in headphones? And then when I want to turn it off, unplug the headphones first?
> 
> Is this the best way to operate?


 
  This is the recommended practice.
   
  To be perfectly honest, however, I sometimes forget and leave my 701s plugged in during on/off, and have never heard the 'pop'/'crackle' experienced on systems without the relay.


----------



## Mediahound

cthalupa said:


> This is the recommended practice.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, however, I sometimes forget and leave my 701s plugged in during on/off, and have never heard the 'pop'/'crackle' experienced on systems without the relay.







paradoxper said:


> That's common safe practice.




Thanks.


----------



## haguy

I'm considering buying an Asgard to hook up between my cdp (Onkyo C-7030) and my hp's (HD-598 and SR-60i) using stock cables. Would I be happy with this setup or should I be considering something else? Does the Asgard compliment the HD-598's wide soundstage? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## hodgjy

The Asgard rivals my tube amps in terms of width, but not as much I terms of depth and micro details. I say the Asgard is easily 90% the amp my high end tube amp is. It will work very well with your headphones.



haguy said:


> I'm considering buying an Asgard to hook up between my cdp (Onkyo C-7030) and my hp's (HD-598 and SR-60i) using stock cables. Would I be happy with this setup or should I be considering something else? Does the Asgard compliment the HD-598's wide soundstage? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## gmahler2u

I have question for ya Bifrost users.  Do you burn your bibrost?  Not Burn as burn your house..
  you know what i mean  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have question for ya Bifrost users.  Do you burn your bibrost?  Not Burn as burn your house..
> you know what i mean
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You mean burn in? 
   
  That happens automatically as you use it


----------



## haguy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Asgard rivals my tube amps in terms of width, but not as much I terms of depth and micro details. I say the Asgard is easily 90% the amp my high end tube amp is. It will work very well with your headphones.


 
  Thank you for your reply, hodgjy. It seems whenever I get close to deciding on an amp after researching on this forum some one throws negative reasoning into the mix. I have pretty much narrowed my search down to the Asgard and the Matrix M Stage at this point. You may have just sold me on the Asgard. Thanks again for your input.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





haguy said:


> Thank you for your reply, hodgjy. It seems whenever I get close to deciding on an amp after researching on this forum some one throws negative reasoning into the mix. I have pretty much narrowed my search down to the Asgard and the Matrix M Stage at this point. You may have just sold me on the Asgard. Thanks again for your input.


 

 good choice with the amp!!
   
  Cheers!!


----------



## haguy

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> good choice with the amp!!
> 
> Cheers!!


 
  Thanks for the approval. I needed that.


----------



## KCxSmacker

Asgard:
   
  Love this thing. Put in onto my rig for the fans that are blowing up to help keep the asgard cool. I know it runs hot but now its basically just warm. No more none touchable Asgard!
   
  Sound is amazing, I have been collecting a good amount of headphones and had been waiting for ages to get my asgard that was lost in the mail. Schiit was awesome! They finally just sent me a new one because FedEx was taking to long on getting back to them after a month. WORTH THE WAIT. I see the most gain(improvement in sound all around) in the following headphones in order:
   
  HE-400
  DenonD5000
  Senn. HD598
  MadDog Modded TP50s
   
   
  cheers


----------



## MuZI

The Bitfrost + Asgard combination has totally met my expectations. I haven't felt this way since I went from regular apple earbuds to Koss Porta Pro YEARS ago.

Just wanted to share my great experience on the combo


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





muzi said:


> The Bitfrost + Asgard combination has totally met my expectations. I haven't felt this way since I went from regular apple earbuds to Koss Porta Pro YEARS ago.
> Just wanted to share my great experience on the combo


 

 +1


----------



## gmoney80

Has anyone tried the valhala with the Beyer T1's? i am looking for a quality tube amp under $600 and am considering it and the Woo WA3.  Any help would be awesome.


----------



## hodgjy

The Valhalla is better than the WA3. I've had both.


----------



## Irakaia

Quote: 





gmoney80 said:


> Has anyone tried the valhala with the Beyer T1's? i am looking for a quality tube amp under $600 and am considering it and the Woo WA3.  Any help would be awesome.


 
   
  I have and I own both. Valhalla drives T1's pretty good but it lacks a bit punch in the bass. Overall I would recommend it though. Very good value for the price.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





gmoney80 said:


> Has anyone tried the valhala with the Beyer T1's? i am looking for a quality tube amp under $600 and am considering it and the Woo WA3.  Any help would be awesome.


 
   
  Quote: 





irakaia said:


> I have and I own both. Valhalla drives T1's pretty good but it lacks a bit punch in the bass. Overall I would recommend it though. Very good value for the price.


 
  Not that you asked, but the Lyr would likely be better with the 600 Ohm Beyer T1s.


----------



## Irakaia

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Not that you asked, but the Lyr would likely be better with the 600 Ohm Beyer T1s.


 
   
  +1
   
  I own Lyr too and T1 sounds spectacular with it. Much more detailed and the bass got a good impact. Not that the Valhalla is bad for T1's, but Lyr drives them much better.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

I like to compare Schiit to Beyer A1, Musical Fidelity M1, & PS Audio NuWave DAC.


----------



## Serenitty

So I've been mostly lurking (It's research!) for a while and I'm trying to find some opinions on how noticeable to upgrade from the Pure I20 to the Bifrost would be.  So far I've only found one reference and I'm looking for more opinions.  Right now I'm:
   
  32gb Touch with mostly 320VBR AAC's>Pure i20 as Transport/DAC>Valhalla>HD650's
   
  I'm looking to go to:
   
  32gb Touch with mostly 320VBR AAC's>Pure i20 as Transport>Bifrost>Valhalla>HD650's
  
  And I'm just looking for opinions on that.  Do I need to be using ALAC/FLAC files to benefit from the Bifrost, as it is I can't tell the difference between my 320VBR AAC's and some stuff I ripped (same song) as ALAC.
   
  So far I'm really happy with my setup, after years of UE SF5Pro's and a few months with TH10's this is my first around the ear setup.  Most songs sound great, some sound unreal (bach cello & the Wild Things soundtrack were both Holy $h!t moments)
   
  Thanks,
  Dan


----------



## hodgjy

I can hear the difference between 256 kbs and ALAC files.  I've never encoded in 320 kbs, so I can't comment.  With the cost of hard drives being lower now than ever, space is never really an issue.  There's really no reason to encoded lossless anymore because if you want to fill up a portable player, you can reduce the bitrate on the fly while filling it.


----------



## Serenitty

I guess partly I was trying to describe my listening level, I don't know what metal ears I have, I just know they aren't Golden.  So given the fact that I can't hear the difference between 320AAC and ALAC, will I hear the difference between the Pure I20 DAC and the Bifrost?  I have found almost nothing in my searches comparing the two.  I don't want to spend another $350 just so my setup will look cooler, though it certainly would...
   
  320 also pretty much fills my 32gb touch.  ALAC would cut what I have on there to 1/3 the current level (roughly based on the couple of ALAC CD's I've ripped).  My music setup location does not lend itself to a laptop and harddrive just yet.  Maybe someday I won't care about how much space I use... 
   
  Thanks,
 Dan


----------



## hodgjy

If your ears can't tell the difference, then that's all that matters.  The DAC in the i20 is actually pretty good.  It is a step up from the iPod's built in DAC, and not too far behind the V-DAC II.  The i20 and V-DAC II are pretty similar in soundstage and detail, but the V-DAC is more refined and smooth.


----------



## cthalupa

I'm a huge proponent of storing in FLAC or ALAC purely because you never know how encoders are going to change in the future. Look at how much LAME has changed over the past 5 years, for example. With lossless storage you can always encode again when lossy formats change.


----------



## Serenitty

That makes me think that maybe my listening skills aren't ready to appreciate stepping up from the Pure to the Bifrost.
   
  Any other opinions out there?
   
  Thanks...


----------



## hodgjy

I would not consider an external DAC if you were using lossy formats; DACs maximize their performance with lossless tracks.  Putting premium gasoline in a Honda Accord does not make it Ferrari. 
   
  Quote: 





serenitty said:


> That makes me think that maybe my listening skills aren't ready to appreciate stepping up from the Pure to the Bifrost.
> 
> Any other opinions out there?
> 
> Thanks...


----------



## Serenitty

Then maybe I'll just stop and enjoy for a while.  Consider the system done until I can tell the difference between ALAC and 320 VBR AAC...  It does sound awfully good as it is...
   
  Thanks
   
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I would not consider an external DAC if you were using lossy formats; DACs maximize their performance with lossless tracks.  Putting premium gasoline in a Honda Accord does not make it Ferrari


----------



## SladeWilson

Got my Shciit


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Question, is it safe to turn on the Lyr first and then plug in headphones? And then when I want to turn it off, unplug the headphones first?
> 
> Is this the best way to operate?


 
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That's common safe practice.


 
   
  Quote: 





cthalupa said:


> This is the recommended practice.
> 
> To be perfectly honest, however, I sometimes forget and leave my 701s plugged in during on/off, and have never heard the 'pop'/'crackle' experienced on systems without the relay.


 
   
  I found this in another thread, straight from the source:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/542064/schiit-lyr-shipping-impressions/2265#post_8481528
   


> Hey all,
> 
> To clarify: all current Lyrs have relay mute on turn-on and turn-off, so you can leave your headphones plugged in all the time if you'd like. However, I personally still like the extra safety of unplugging before turn-off and plugging in after the relay has engaged. It's an old habit--hard to get rid of.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  So it looks like it's safe to leave headphones plugged in all the time.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I found this in another thread, straight from the source:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/542064/schiit-lyr-shipping-impressions/2265#post_8481528
> 
> ...


 
  Until the mute/relay fails...Which is possible, but unlikely.


----------



## imzemo

I honestly don't know if this was answered, but which of the three (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr) would be the best option to be used as a versatile amp that can drive and sound good with pretty much all headphones (Grado, Denon, AKG K550/K701, Sennheiser HD600, etc)? 
   
  My fear with the Asgard is that it'll run hot - _too hot_; and for some reason that really concerns me, don't know why. However, from what I've heard, it'd be the solution to my problem: the do-it-all amp. 
   
  So, please give me some suggestions! I've been leaning towards the Lyr, but I've heard that it can be overkill for some of the headphones I mentioned.


----------



## MuZI

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> I honestly don't know if this was answered, but which of the three (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr) would be the best option to be used as a versatile amp that can drive and sound good with pretty much all headphones (Grado, Denon, AKG K550/K701, Sennheiser HD600, etc)?
> 
> My fear with the Asgard is that it'll run hot - _too hot_; and for some reason that really concerns me, don't know why. However, from what I've heard, it'd be the solution to my problem: the do-it-all amp.
> 
> So, please give me some suggestions! I've been leaning towards the Lyr, but I've heard that it can be overkill for some of the headphones I mentioned.


 
   
  Depends on how long you leave the Asgard on. It's currently in the low 80's around here and my amp gets warm to the touch after 1 hour. Nothing that would burn me...
   
  From what I know the Asgard and Lyr are versatile amps while the Valhalla is recommended more for high impedance amps.
   
  I was in the same train of thought as you and figured I'd get the Asgard since I don't plan to get phones in the future that require a lot of power. I hear the HE-400 type phones need quite a bit sometimes.
   
  My AKG k272HD are just fine with my bifrost/asgard combo.


----------



## cthalupa

Slade, that's some sexy schiit you've got in your setup.


----------



## asmoday

Very nice set-up SladeWilson!
  Congrats!!


----------



## musicinmymind

I have a question on 220V to 120V converter to be used with schiit lyr and bifrost outside USA. I do have an converter which does 85 watts max, can I use it with Lyr and bifrost? is it safe?
   
  Please suggest


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> I honestly don't know if this was answered, but which of the three (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr) would be the best option to be used as a versatile amp that can drive and sound good with pretty much all headphones (Grado, Denon, AKG K550/K701, Sennheiser HD600, etc)?
> 
> My fear with the Asgard is that it'll run hot - _too hot_; and for some reason that really concerns me, don't know why. However, from what I've heard, it'd be the solution to my problem: the do-it-all amp.
> 
> So, please give me some suggestions! I've been leaning towards the Lyr, but I've heard that it can be overkill for some of the headphones I mentioned.


 
   
  The heat simply isn't an issue.  Yeah, it's a bit hot.  Unless you sit it in your lap while listening, it's not a problem.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> I honestly don't know if this was answered, but which of the three (Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr) would be the best option to be used as a versatile amp that can drive and sound good with pretty much all headphones (Grado, Denon, AKG K550/K701, Sennheiser HD600, etc)?
> 
> My fear with the Asgard is that it'll run hot - _too hot_; and for some reason that really concerns me, don't know why. However, from what I've heard, it'd be the solution to my problem: the do-it-all amp.
> 
> So, please give me some suggestions! I've been leaning towards the Lyr, but I've heard that it can be overkill for some of the headphones I mentioned.


 
   
  For the headphones you mentioned (and for that matter for most anything short of the HE6) I would get the Asgard. Yeah it runs fairly warm but it's supposed to and it does have a 5 year warranty.


----------



## hodgjy

The nominal consumption for the Lyr is 30W and the Bifrost is 12 W.  Technically, you should be ok, but weird power swings could max out your converter.  I'd ask Jason directly what the peak swings are in the devices just to be on the safe side.
   
  Quote: 





musicinmymind said:


> I have a question on 220V to 120V converter to be used with schiit lyr and bifrost outside USA. I do have an converter which does 85 watts max, can I use it with Lyr and bifrost? is it safe?
> 
> Please suggest


----------



## imzemo

For some reason I'm more intrigued by the Lyr than the Asgard... 
   
  What are the key and/or main differences between the two (other than one being solid-state and the other tube)?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> For some reason I'm more intrigued by the Lyr than the Asgard...
> 
> What are the key and/or main differences between the two (other than one being solid-state and the other tube)?


 
  Check out Schiits FAQs: http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-lyr/
   
  Especially this part:
   
  "*Does Lyr sound better than Asgard and Valhalla?*
Does a bear schiit in the . . . nevermind. Short answer: yes. It’s much more dynamic than either amp, and will drive inefficient headphones with power and finesse. Until you’ve heard a headphone amp that’ll do 40V p-p into 32 ohms, you haven’t lived. Or, well, maybe you _have_ lived, maybe you’ve scaled Everest solo, maybe you wrestled a grizzly bear, maybe you’ve paid $20 million to be a space tourist . . . but you still haven’t heard our 6-watt headphone amp!"
   
   
   
  I'm really digging my Lyr!


----------



## imzemo

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Check out Schiits FAQs: http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-lyr/
> 
> Especially this part:
> 
> ...


 
  Exactly... I don't know why but the Lyr just intrigues me more, and yet I don't have any headphones that really need all that juice - strange... Good marketing on Schiit's part, 'cause the Lyr is obviously more expensive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, which would be better to use with, like Denons or Grados? The Asgard, right? 
   
  Decisions, decisions...


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> Exactly... I don't know why but the Lyr just intrigues me more, and yet I don't have any headphones that really need all that juice - strange... Good marketing on Schiit's part, 'cause the Lyr is obviously more expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For Denons and Grados I'd go with the Asgard. Even with the LCD-2s I don't go past around 9 o'clock on the dial to get sufficient volume.


----------



## imzemo

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> For Denons and Grados I'd go with the Asgard. Even with the LCD-2s I don't go past around 9 o'clock on the dial to get sufficient volume.


 
  Would you also go with the Asgard for the HD600 or DT880? 
   
  Also, *anyone *here own both the Asgard and Lyr? What are your thoughts on both? Which do you end up using more?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> For Denons and Grados I'd go with the Asgard. Even with the LCD-2s I don't go past around 9 o'clock on the dial to get sufficient volume.


 
  Lyr will provide more dynamics and openness no matter what headphones you have, or volume you are at, due to the extreme headroom. It's not just about volume level. 
   
  Also it also has preamp outs so you can use it with powered speakers as well, which I do with great results.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> Would you also go with the Asgard for the HD600 or DT880?
> 
> Also, *anyone *here own both the Asgard and Lyr? What are your thoughts on both? Which do you end up using more?


 
   
  HD600s were my main cans before the LCD-2s and are excellent with the Asgard; haven't tried the DT880s. While I don't own the Lyr I got to try *dailydoseofdaly*'s for a few hours with his collection of tubes. Personally I actually like the Asgard better, I guess I prefer relatively uncolored solid state sound and don't listen loud enough to benefit from the Lyr? Not sure of the specifics why, but to my ears the various tubes made the Lyr go from a bit worse (more colored) to very similar to the Asgard. I also appreciate not having to worry about replacing tubes, but some people certainly enjoy their tube rolling.


----------



## skyline315

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> Would you also go with the Asgard for the HD600 or DT880?
> 
> Also, *anyone *here own both the Asgard and Lyr? What are your thoughts on both? Which do you end up using more?


 
  DT880 + Asgard = match made in heaven.  I only have the 250 ohm verison, though.  Sorry, no Lyr to make comparisons with, although when I asked Jason about it, he recommended the Asgard above the others for the DT880s.


----------



## gmahler2u

Happy Thanksgiving and happy listening!


----------



## Mike-mex

Hi there, I own a Valhalla and after some tube rolling now I can say It´s a Great Amp... Pair it with my K702's and my source is a Cambridge AudioDAC Magic 100....
   
  Now I use a pair of Amperex tubes and switched them depending on the type of music I listen to a pair of Telefunken.... These tubes made a HUGE improvement!!!!
   
  I´m new in Audiophilia and Headphones world... but as my first setup I think I made some good purchases.
   
  Greetings,
  Mike


----------



## Erukian

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it looks like Schiit has their short balanced XLR cables for the Gungnir+Mjolnir stack in stock.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





erukian said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned, but it looks like Schiit has their short balanced XLR cables for the Gungnir+Mjolnir stack in stock.


 
  Jason made an announcement in a different thread. The PYST XLR cable's use
  Straightwire Symphony II cable.


----------



## Irakaia

Just bought Hifiman HE-500 recently and I've been pairing them with the Lyr. Holy schiit these cans sound amazing with the Lyr! I've been using stock E88CC tubes about 9 months and it's about time to get into tuberolling with this beast.


----------



## Mike-mex

irakaia said:


> Just bought Hifiman HE-500 recently and I've been pairing them with the Lyr. Holy schiit these cans sound amazing with the Lyr! I've been using stock E88CC tubes about 9 months and it's about time to get into tuberolling with this beast.




try the amperex ones!!!!!!!! I have siemens, russians from the 60´s, teslas, and telefunken´s.... and I can assure you the AMPEREX are amazing...


----------



## Iamnothim

mike-mex said:


> try the amperex ones!!!!!!!! I have siemens, russians from the 60´s, teslas, and telefunken´s.... and I can assure you the AMPEREX are amazing...




+1


----------



## Iamnothim

Tubes for the Lyr....
Presently listening to the 1969 Amprex Orange Globes.
They are an incredible upgrade over the stock tubes.
   
My expectations for the 1962 Amprex Bugle Boys is they won't sound as good. I could be wrong.
Since I only have 60 hours on my HD650 it will be some time before I roll again.
   
Then there's the 1965 Amprex USA.  These are supposed to be very rare and very, very good.
The question will be if I roll them at all.  They are only NOS once. 
   
To anyone not sure about trying another tube......Try other tubes!
The Bugle Boy's and the Orange Globes were about $60 / pair.
I can't emphasize what a difference I am hearing.  They're not making 1965 tubes anymore.
   
It's counterintuitive that electronics from the 50's and 60's will sound better than
todays electronics. 







   
  Come on.  It's 60$  You can find something to rationalize $60
   
I don't have much experience yet and down the road I suspect I'l
try Telefunken and Mullard.  At this point I am delighted with Amprex.
   
I am clueless on Valhalla.
   
OK.  I'm slightly off my gord.
One time only offer.
You have to be a Lyr owner with stock tubes...... No experienced tube rollers.
   
I will loan you my Bugle Boy's.
You read that right.
I'll send them out USPS
Post what you think and send them back in a month.
   
I'm new to the community and I'd like to contribute.
   
1969
   

   
   
   
1962
   

   
1965


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Tubes for the Lyr....
> Presently listening to the 1969 Amprex Orange Globes.
> They are an incredible upgrade over the stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 

 Very kind of you to loan these tubes....I wish I had Lyr!


----------



## Mike-mex

iamnothim said:


> Tubes for the Lyr....
> Presently listening to the 1969 Amprex Orange Globes.
> They are an incredible upgrade over the stock tubes.
> 
> ...




Nice tubes... I am waiting on a pair of 60´s Siemens I bought from a guy in Italy...I already try the telefunken and I find them just a little bit less detail than the amperex... 

I´ll just stay on the amperex... because the rest are really expensive and maybe we wont get the a batter result on them...

I´ll spend that money in new headphones now instead...

What do you think?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mike-mex said:


> Nice tubes... I am waiting on a pair of 60´s Siemens I bought from a guy in Italy...I already try the telefunken and I find them just a little bit less detail than the amperex...
> I´ll just stay on the amperex... because the rest are really expensive and maybe we wont get the a batter result on them...
> I´ll spend that money in new headphones now instead...
> What do you think?


 
  I truly agree.
  The Amprex sound so sweet to me, I don't want to try anything else.  Simply exquisite.
   
  The Amprex NOS USA are on their way.   Expensive, yes too.  I'm done ... for a while.


----------



## gmahler2u

buying tube can be very expensive...


----------



## Mike-mex

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> buying tube can be very expensive...


 
   
  I know is like an addiction... but I hopefully stoped! after buying 7-8 pairs LOL... But now I know which tubes I like!   Which tube do you like more?
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I truly agree.
> The Amprex sound so sweet to me, I don't want to try anything else.  Simply exquisite.
> 
> The Amprex NOS USA are on their way.   Expensive, yes too.  I'm done ... for a while.


 
   
  I only have the orange globe... but what about the buggle boy? how do they sound?  already got the USA ones?  Thanks!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mike-mex said:


> I know is like an addiction... but I hopefully stoped! after buying 7-8 pairs LOL... But now I know which tubes I like!   Which tube do you like more?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm totally new on this.  I have no idea with tube model,  i just know Amprex an tangsul? LOL  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I need to research before I get into deeper level...LOL  Which one I like? sound to me Amprex boggle boy...sweet sound?  maybe I can't be wrong.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I'm totally new on this.  I have no idea with tube model,  i just know Amprex an tangsul? LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I made the offer earlier that I would loan a set of Amprex (Orange or BB's) to someone that has never tried different tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I made the offer earlier that I would loan a set of Amprex (Orange or BB's) to someone that has never tried different tubes.


 

 I wasn't clear, I don't have the Lyr ----yet.  I'm interested in tube rolling stuff but I'm finding out that it get too crazy...so i'm holding out  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Thank you for the offer...I really like to try those bad boys out  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I wasn't clear, I don't have the Lyr ----yet.  I'm interested in tube rolling stuff but I'm finding out that it get too crazy...so i'm holding out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Phototristan just snagged them.
   
  If you been to the movies lately you know that tickets are $10 and popcorn $50.  Take a date and that covers the tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Schiit has new amp and dac are out...the Price $99.
  anybody has reviews for this babies?


----------



## adydula

I have had a Asgard and a Lyr...both fine amps...and worth the money, well built etc
  Alex


----------



## preproman

New Schiit owner here..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Old and new owner here. 

I didn't love the Lyr (I'm just a full SS guy), but I have high hopes for the Modi and Magni. I love devices that hit above their price point, and I'm hopeful that they both certainly won't disappoint. Ordered both earlier this morning, so I hope they start playing sweet music next week.


----------



## swmtnbiker

mad lust envy said:


> Old and new owner here.
> I didn't love the Lyr (I'm just a full SS guy), but I have high hopes for the Modi and Magni. I love devices that hit above their price point, and I'm hopeful that they both certainly won't disappoint. Ordered both earlier this morning, so I hope they start playing sweet music next week.




Asgard owner here, and I just did the same - ordered the Modi/Magni combo. I'm very interested in checking them out!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Asgard owner here, and I just did the same - ordered the Modi/Magni combo. I'm very interested in checking them out!


 
  But.... I won't be able to waste my money on all those tube thingies.


----------



## MuZI

Loving my Bifrost/Asgard.
   
  The new DAC/Amp are cute.


----------



## Whitetriton

I'm very happy with my Asgard/Bifrost/HD650 combo.  I feed the Bifrost from an Asus DG optical output.  I think it sounds great.  Some day I would like to try the digital coaxial output in to the Bifrost as I understand Schiit representatives claim that is the "best" quality of the three inputs (I have the Bifrost with USB as well).  Has anybody experimented with the different inputs and found any difference in sound?
   
  I don't have any experience with other high/higher end amps/dacs, but I also have an Audioengine D1 which, for its size and price, impresses me.  I had a FiiO E17 that broke, was fixed (or was replaced by the retailer, they did not indicate which) and broke again when hooked up to speakers via L7 line out cable.  When it worked as a DAC/AMP, it seemed like a capable device. . .as a paperweight, it's quite capable but extremely expensive. 
  
  I definitely want to to hear the HE-500 with the Asgard/Bifrost combo.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





whitetriton said:


> I'm very happy with my Asgard/Bifrost/HD650 combo.  I feed the Bifrost from an Asus DG optical output.  I think it sounds great.  Some day I would like to try the digital coaxial output in to the Bifrost as I understand Schiit representatives claim that is the "best" quality of the three inputs (I have the Bifrost with USB as well).  Has anybody experimented with the different inputs and found any difference in sound?
> 
> I don't have any experience with other high/higher end amps/dacs, but I also have an Audioengine D1 which, for its size and price, impresses me.  I had a FiiO E17 that broke, was fixed (or was replaced by the retailer, they did not indicate which) and broke again when hooked up to speakers via L7 line out cable.  When it worked as a DAC/AMP, it seemed like a capable device. . .as a paperweight, it's quite capable but extremely expensive.
> 
> I definitely want to to hear the HE-500 with the Asgard/Bifrost combo.


 
  I use a Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus for my room based system.
  I run USB2 clocking a Mac Mini at 192kHz  Amp is Anthem AVM20 and Thiel CS 1.2 speakers.
   
  My headphone system is a Lyr and Bifrost with Toslink Optical to a MacBook Pro retinal
  The MBP clocks the Bifrost at 92kHz  Headphones are HD-650
   
  I brought the DacMagic to the headphone system and A/B'd 
  DMP using USB2 against Bifrost with Toslink.
   
  To my ears, on cans,  I preferred the Bifrost / optical.
   
  The music was a mix of classical / rock / blues / acoustic 
  Sample Rates between 44.1kHz to 192kHz  320 MP3, FLAC/AIFF, ALAC
  Software was Amarra


----------



## swmtnbiker

Nice little rig you've got there.


----------



## MuZI

I've personally found optical to be the best.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Nice little rig you've got there.


 
  tanks
   
  I'm becoming a tube junkie...
  and... set of LCD2's arrived today


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





muzi said:


> I've personally found optical to be the best.


 
  I think you are spot-on
  The whole 192kHz thing is over baked.
  There is limited content available....and..
  I can save $10 an album at HD Tracks.
   
  I'm buying the 96kHz stuff and it sounds great.
  For that matter, the 44.1kHz on old 50's 60's recordings are amazing.
   
  Setup is a no brainer... let the Mac clock the Bifrost, or any other DAC
  connect cable, turn on, done.
   
  No Midi setup nonsense.
  IMO.... I can't tell the difference.


----------



## swmtnbiker

iamnothim said:


> tanks
> 
> I'm becoming a tube junkie...
> and... set of LCD2's arrived today




Tubes are an expensive hobby. I became a SS guy due to an over-emphasized sense of self-preservation.


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





rhyno46 said:


> Received my bifrost and Asgard today, to match my senn hd650.
> I have one disappointment... I didn't bring the stack home with me tonight. This is my office setup and all I want to do is listen right now.
> I also have some anxiety... Should I have popped for the Valhalla instead?


 
  when u say" to match" what do u mean exactly? 
   
  i guess what I am trying to say is....that sounds like u are smart enough to assume that things match. 
   
  I guess I am dumb enough to assume the opposite.


----------



## lyrill

oh btw, i think i need to post this, cus this is a "proud" photo i took with my first dSLR usage. Not that it is anyway legit, but it's good looking to my eyes and I feel good about it, to an extent that I hope that it could satisfy my pro photographer wanna be ego and suceed in reeling and pretending to be one.
   
  It's all just about posing..for me at least
   
))
   
  BUT IN THE END, AS SOON AS THIS GOES ONLINE IT'S FREE TO ANYONE TO DOWNLOAD OBVIOUSLY.. I MEAN LIKE I INVENTED PHOTOGRAPHY OR PRODUCED THAT DAMN DSLR..I take no real deep pride in anything that is even slightly related to un-original.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





lyrill said:


> oh btw, i think i need to post this, cus this is a proud photo i took with my first dSLR usage. Not that it is anyway legit, but it's good looking to my eyes and I feel good about it, to an extent that I hope that it could satisfy my pro photographer wanna be ego and suceed in reeling and pretending to be one.
> 
> It's all just about posing..for me at least
> 
> ...


 
  nice catch


----------



## Iamnothim

Took the liberty of "amping" that baby up a tad.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





lyrill said:


> oh btw, i think i need to post this, cus this is a "proud" photo i took with my first dSLR usage. Not that it is anyway legit, but it's good looking to my eyes and I feel good about it, to an extent that I hope that it could satisfy my pro photographer wanna be ego and suceed in reeling and pretending to be one.
> 
> It's all just about posing..for me at least
> 
> ...


----------



## Dat bass

Not sure if excited to get them or scared to blow my phones. Oh well


----------



## Defiant00

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## jhelsas

Quote: 





dat bass said:


> Not sure if excited to get them or scared to blow my phones. Oh well


 

  My thought: Don't plug IEMs into the Lyr


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jhelsas said:


> My thought: Don't plug IEMs into the Lyr


 
  +99
  Jason from Schiit said No Way on using IEM's with the Lyr.


----------



## MickeyVee

As much as I love my Lyr and have 5 sets of tubes, I think I'm going to go the same direction.
   
  I'm about to pull the trigger on the Magni and mate it with my DragonFly for my recliner setup.  The DF is a little weak with the HD700 and I think the Magni might give it the extra little bit of punch.  Been looking for a cheaper amp with a full 1/4" headphone plug.
  Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Tubes are an expensive hobby. I became a SS guy due to an over-emphasized sense of self-preservation.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> As much as I love my Lyr and have 5 sets of tubes, I think I'm going to go the same direction.
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Magni and mate it with my DragonFly for my recliner setup.  The DF is a little weak with the HD700 and I think the Magni might give it the extra little bit of punch.  Been looking for a cheaper amp with a full 1/4" headphone plug.


 

 May I ask what were those 5 sets of tubes?


----------



## Dat bass

dat bass said:


> Not sure if excited to get them or scared to blow my phones. Oh well




>status backordered.



Talk about Christmas sales rush.


For now I'm using the DT 990/600 and MDR-7520. My ears dislike the feel of IEMs in the canals, so no worries about those.


----------



## MickeyVee

This is the list so far..
• GE 6BZ7[size=medium]
• Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-Frame, PQ label[size=medium][/size]
• Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling[/size]
 [size=medium] • Mullard CV2492 E88CC 6922 - 1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter  [/size]
 [size=medium] plus an incoming pair of Amperex Orange Globe[/size]
 [size=medium] That's it, I'm done until I can really spend some time with all of them and decide which I like best.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] Had the Lorenz Stuttgart but sold them to fund my Bifrost.. silly me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] I definitely don't have a golden ear.. for now, prefer the GE's but really haven't spent much time with the others.  Right now I'm listening with the Senn HD700 but have plans on getting the HiFiMAN HE-500's. [/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
 [size=medium] On another note, just pulled the trigger on the Mangi.. for $99, it's worth a try.[/size]
 [size=medium]  [/size]
   
  Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> May I ask what were those 5 sets of tubes?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> This is the list so far..
> • GE 6BZ7[size=medium]
> • Amperex 6DJ8 / ECC88 - A-Frame, PQ label[size=medium][/size]
> • Matsu****a E88CC 6922 Japan - MINT NOS NIB Mullard Tooling[/size]
> ...


 

 that's quite a collection you got there!  I guess I pushing away the tube because the cost...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I'm happy with my asgard...thank you for share your collection.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

can I play in the pool if I recently bought the $99 amp?  Should arrive tomorrow so stay tuned for unboxing.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> can I play in the pool if I recently bought the $99 amp?  Should arrive tomorrow so stay tuned for unboxing.


 
  Does it come with gum?


----------



## MickeyVee

Sweet.. looking forward to your unboxing and impressions.  Given the way USPS is, I should see mine (in Canada) in about 2 weeks or so.  
  I sent my Lyr in to get the relay switch added, it shipped back on Dec 5 and I'm still waiting for it.
  Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> can I play in the pool if I recently bought the $99 amp?  Should arrive tomorrow so stay tuned for unboxing.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Sweet.. looking forward to your unboxing and impressions.  Given the way USPS is, I should see mine (in Canada) in about 2 weeks or so.
> I sent my Lyr in to get the relay switch added, it shipped back on Dec 5 and I'm still waiting for it.


 
   
  damn, two weeks is a long time.  Sorry bro!


----------



## MickeyVee

Been without the Lyr for over a month now.  There are worse things in life but I'm looking forward to getting it back.  Been using my AudioQuest DragonFly and AudioEngine D1 in the interim.  Just not the same.  Looking forward to pairing the DragonFly with the Mangi.
  Quote: 





hifiguy528 said:


> damn, two weeks is a long time.  Sorry bro!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Tubes are an expensive hobby. I became a SS guy due to an over-emphasized sense of self-preservation.


 
  That is so true.
  Stupid money.
   
  Looking forward to hearing impression of the micro kit.
  I hate cords so I like the USB Power feature.
  I might get a kit for my wife.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Stupid money indeed. I'm still waiting for that phone call from the lawyer of the long-lost rich uncle I never knew I had. Being independently wealthy would make my life soooooo much easier.


----------



## pelli

I don't have anything profound to say, but got to get in on this Schiit.  I love my Asgard/Bifrost Combo, and there is a Mjolnir with my name on it in the mail.  Next on the list is the Gungnir, but it is a ways off.  In the meantime the two tiny Schiits look like a fun, and the Modi may have to be my laptop to Mjolnir bridge until I win the lottery, or get my tax return!  Anyhow, I seem to be acquiring quite the pile of Schiit and couldn't be happier!  Cheers fellow fanboys!!!


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





pelli said:


> I don't have anything profound to say, but got to get in on this Schiit.  I love my Asgard/Bifrost Combo, and there is a Mjolnir with my name on it in the mail.  Next on the list is the Gungnir, but it is a ways off.  In the meantime the two tiny Schiits look like a fun, and the Modi may have to be my laptop to Mjolnir bridge until I win the lottery, or get my tax return!  Anyhow, I seem to be acquiring quite the pile of Schiit and couldn't be happier!  Cheers fellow fanboys!!!


 
  well then you may be the original collector given if schiit got written into history. and the schiit stack may become big $$ in the distant future loulz/


----------



## SHAHZADA123

SUBSCRIBED.
   
  The Mjolnir is the best amp I've heard with the LCD3s & HP1000s. Even better than the mighty ECBA.
  For HD800s, the Valhalla was excellent but not as good as the ECBA. So it's gone.
  Lyr was also nice with the LCDs but the Mjolnir is just terrific.
   
  IME, Schiit does come up with new products which are significantly better than their predecessors.
  Waiting for their STATEMENT SCHIIT...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only statement I want from Schiit is a pure SS amp with the power of the Lyr or more... like my SA-31, but with a volume knob, and Schiit aesthetics...


----------



## gmahler2u

I have question to Vahalla owner and Lyr owner.  Which amp is good with hd800?


----------



## DarknightDK

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> The Mjolnir is the best amp I've heard with the LCD3s & HP1000s. Even better than the mighty ECBA.
> For HD800s, the Valhalla was excellent but not as good as the ECBA. So it's gone.
> Lyr was also nice with the LCDs but the Mjolnir is just terrific.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is very high praise indeed. Makes me want to pick up a Mjolnir just for the LCD-3.
   
  I'm waiting for the statement amps too, and hopefully those will be another good step up from the Mjolnir for the LCD-3.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have question to Vahalla owner and Lyr owner.  Which amp is good with hd800?


 
  Hi,
  There is a huge Lyr thread that might help you:
   
 Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread  It's over 300 pages.
  Go there at you own risk as it might cost you $1000's in vintage tubes.
  The hobby within a hobby.
   
  As you may know the Lyr is a hybrid amp with SS power and 6922 tubes for the pre amp.  I'm a big fanboy.
  I have Audeze LCD2's and Senn HD650.  they're like butter.  The Audeze has a Huge Voice with this amp.
  I like the SS/Tube combination.  It's the best of both worlds.
   
  The Valhalla is pure tube.  It might be a bit softer and I am actually considering one for my wife's kit.
  But I have not seen the following on Head-Fi that the Lyr has and you've got 4 tubes as opposed to 2 tubes.
  (1 pair as drivers, 1 pair as pre-amp)
   
  I own, and am selling, a pure tube amp for a room speaker system.  Very smooth.
  Bottom line, you'll enjoy the Lyr.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have question to Vahalla owner and Lyr owner.  Which amp is good with hd800?


 
  For HD800s, my vote would go to Valhalla.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> For HD800s, my vote would go to Valhalla.


 
  You certainly have the credentials


----------



## Mike-mex

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> For HD800s, my vote would go to Valhalla.


 

 +1
   
  Valhalla will do the job!


----------



## MrViolin

hifiguy528 said:


> can I play in the pool if I recently bought the $99 amp?  Should arrive tomorrow so stay tuned for unboxing.


 
  Can't wait for the impressions!


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only statement I want from Schiit is a pure SS amp with the power of the Lyr or more... like my SA-31, but with a volume knob, and Schiit aesthetics...


 
  You mean the mjolnir? Or am I missing something here.


----------



## Defiant00

erukian said:


> You mean the mjolnir? Or am I missing something here.




Haha, I was going to post the same thing but refrained.


----------



## Barry S

I heard the HD-800 for the first time today on the Lyr. I thought the synergy was bad and wouldn't recommend that combination at all. I'm not sure I'd like the HD-800 on any amp, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

​


erukian said:


> You mean the mjolnir? Or am I missing something here.




Sorry I meant SE not balanced. I have no desire for balanced. The SA-31 has more power than the Mjonir and its not even balanced.


----------



## imzemo

Does anyone know if the headphones are affected in any way if you leave them plugged when turning off the Lyr?


----------



## Defiant00

imzemo said:


> Does anyone know if the headphones are affected in any way if you leave them plugged when turning off the Lyr?




The muting relay is there specifically so you can leave them plugged in while turning it on and off. However, there's never any harm in unplugging it first if it makes you feel better (I do with my Asgard even though it has the same relay setup).


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> Does anyone know if the headphones are affected in any way if you leave them plugged when turning off the Lyr?


 
  Have had the Asgard and Lyr for  while now. I leave my sets on them most of the time before turning on|off. No adverse effects.
   
  In saying that, I concur with other posters. Unplug them if it makes you feel more comfortable. That's what's most important, that you have peace of mind.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





nzheadcase said:


> Have had the Asgard and Lyr for  while now. I leave my sets on them most of the time before turning on|off. No adverse effects.
> 
> In saying that, I concur with other posters. Unplug them if it makes you feel more comfortable. That's what's most important, that you have peace of mind.


 
   
  I worry about wearing out the headphone jack...


----------



## MrViolin

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I worry about wearing out the headphone jack...


 
  T_T I read this somewhere before and am not sure if this is myth/fact for headphones


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





imzemo said:


> Does anyone know if the headphones are affected in any way if you leave them plugged when turning off the Lyr?


 
   
  I recall still getting a little transient. It's common practice to unplug then turn off. Unless your amp employs good work arounds.
  Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I worry about wearing out the headphone jack...


 
  That's silly. These are industrial parts, you'll most likely never wear out the jack.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That's silly. These are industrial parts, you'll most likely never wear out the jack.


 
   
  What's industrial about it? It looks like your normal consumer phono jack to me.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> What's industrial about it? It looks like your normal consumer phono jack to me.


 
  Perhaps I should have said the headphone jacks are rugged. In any case, I'd dare ya to
  "wear" the jacks out.


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> What's industrial about it? It looks like your normal consumer phono jack to me.


 
  Had a ten year old pioneer amp that saw massive use with speakers and headphones of all kinds. Saw me through the Laser Disc days and through the PSone and PS 2 era. Other parts gave up the ghost, but the headphone jack was still working fine. I don't think the jacks on the Schiits are of any lesser quality. PLUS there's the 5 year warranty. You should be covered. Break it after near 5 years use, get it fixed for free and you have at least another 5 years use on it.  
   
  By that time you may have moved on to a new amp anyway.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Perhaps I should have said the headphone jacks are rugged. In any case, I'd dare ya to
> "wear" the jacks out.


 
   
  It's a professional-grade, real Neutrik phone jack. Even if you plug and unplug it every day, it's rated to last more than 27 years.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> It's a professional-grade, real Neutrik phone jack. Even if you plug and unplug it every day, it's rated to last more than 27 years.


 
  That's good to know


----------



## Dat bass

The wait for my order out of backorder is killing me, does Schiit provides a shipping tracking # when the orders ships out?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





dat bass said:


> The wait for my order out of backorder is killing me, does Schiit provides a shipping tracking # when the orders ships out?


 
  Yep. I got an 'Order Update" email which included the tracking number.


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> +99
> Jason from Schiit said No Way on using IEM's with the Lyr.


 
  well then i should be aware since er4s seem to be considered something on par with orpheus in terms of...whatevs..
   
  bsides high noise, lyr has failed to trash any of my phones..lolz. but the magni modi pair is on the way. so..should work with er4s, esw9 and ad900 fine i hope. any sub 250ohm cans go straight to the M&M


----------



## HiFiGuy528

in case you missed it.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/640783/schiit-magni-headphone-amplifier/180#post_8963791


----------



## zachchen1996

iamnothim said:


> +99
> Jason from Schiit said No Way on using IEM's with the Lyr.




Not true, I used my gr07s straight out of a lyr and other than some hiss, it sounded great, the world didn't blow or anything hahaha.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





zachchen1996 said:


> Not true, I used my gr07s straight out of a lyr and other than some hiss, it sounded great, the world didn't blow or anything hahaha.


 
  Just saying what I got in an email.
  Perhaps it was cya.


----------



## MaJoMax

Mjolnir and gungnir made me not missing my bifrost and lyr anymore, they are that good, way better. I was a tube guy, but the hammer just do the job.


----------



## Iamnothim

Bifrost is running a tad cool


----------



## sachu

Have a Gungnir for sale if anyone's interested here. Leaving on vacation for two weeks so would really like to get the DAC sold before i leave but no biggie otherwise.


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





majomax said:


> Mjolnir and gungnir made me not missing my bifrost and lyr anymore, they are that good, way better. I was a tube guy, but the hammer just do the job.


 
  now why would u make me feel bad about not having $$ to buy them atm!!>.<


----------



## MaJoMax

lyrill said:


> now why would u make me feel bad about not having $$ to buy them atm!!>.<


lol
Sorry mate~


----------



## MaJoMax

lyrill said:


> now why would u make me feel bad about not having $$ to buy them atm!!>.<


lol
Sorry mate~


----------



## gmahler2u

I have a question.  Can Asgard drive HE500? or not?  maybe someone already answer this question already, but I like to know.
   
  Thank you


----------



## MrViolin

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have a question.  Can Asgard drive HE500? or not?  maybe someone already answer this question already, but I like to know.
> 
> Thank you


 
  If the magni can drive the he-400, I'm pretty sure the asgard can drive the he500 :3 Man, are the hifiman 400/500's that hard to drive? These are standalone amps and should do the job. HE-6 is the only one i'm hearing that needs an amp like the dark star to drive those suckers to the limit.


----------



## Raptor34

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have a question.  Can Asgard drive HE500? or not?  maybe someone already answer this question already, but I like to know.
> 
> Thank you


 

 Yes it can.  I was very happy with my Asgard/HE-500 until one day I went crazy and got a Lyr and Bifrost.   The Asgard drove the 500's very well and sinfully  loud without any distortion.  Good combo.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have a question.  Can Asgard drive HE500? or not?  maybe someone already answer this question already, but I like to know.
> 
> Thank you


 
   
  Yes it can. Sure, more expensive / more powerful amps may drive it even better, but the Asgard is good for basically anything short of the HE6.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm pretty sure the Magni is actually stronger for anything higher than 50ohm.

Asgard:

32 ohms: 1.56 W
50 ohms: 1.0 W
100 ohms: 500 mW
120 ohms: 833 mW
300 ohms: 167 mW
600 ohms: 83 mW


Magni:

32 ohms: 1.2W
50 ohms: 1.0W
300 ohms: 260mW
600 ohms: 130mW

I've always said it, the Asgard needs a revision. 

The Magni has some serious power for such a small body. I'm not impressed with the Asgard's power specs. At 600ohms, that's basically identical to the $88 Fiio E9 (80mw). Power isn't everything, but damn. I expected more.


----------



## gmahler2u

Thank you everyone for the info.


----------



## 2enty3

Hello, schiit owners,
   
  As a possible future schiit owner, I have some questions:
   
  I've read around about schiits not having "protection" and some things about relays. As you can tell, I have close to no idea what those mean technically. But from What I've read, it seems not having a relay or protection can quite literally destroy your headphone.
   
  I'm wondering if this is true, or if there is a special way one must handle a schiit amp. More specifically I am interested in the lyr.


----------



## DTrewwye

Quote: 





2enty3 said:


> Hello, schiit owners,
> 
> As a possible future schiit owner, I have some questions:
> 
> ...


 

 I believe the issue has been rectified, quick search of similar Schiit thread would mention that.  Relays are now currently in place to stop that from happening.
   
  It's still good practice to plug your 'phones in and out before powering on/off equipment anyway.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





2enty3 said:


> Hello, schiit owners,
> 
> As a possible future schiit owner, I have some questions:
> 
> ...


 
   
  All new Lyrs come with the relay that prevents this potential issue, although there's certainly no harm in plugging in your cans after turning the amp on and unplugging them before you turn it off for extra peace of mind.
   
  The Lyr didn't initially have the relay, so you could potentially blow your high sensitivity headphones if you left them plugged in while turning it on. This was offered as a free update to initial Lyr owners; it is always possible they didn't bother sending theirs back to Schiit to have the relay added, so if you're buying a used Lyr you'll want to ask the owner if it has the relay. You can tell if it does by listening for it when it's turned on; if it has the relay you'll hear it click 10 or so seconds after you power on the amp.


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





2enty3 said:


> Hello, schiit owners,
> 
> As a possible future schiit owner, I have some questions:
> 
> ...


 
   
  This was recently re-addressed by Schiit in this thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/640783/schiit-magni-headphone-amplifier/270
   
  Here's the post by Jason:
   
  "Ok, to clear things up:
   
  1. We know of exactly one case of a defective Lyr killing a headphone, post-relay. The person posts on this board--and he will tell you that we told him "it is defective, send it back and we'll fix it." He actually wanted to keep the amp, he was so happy with it, and kept it to the point where it blew up a headphone. If you have friends who have blown up headphones with Lyr, post-relay, they're not talking to us. And they should. In that case, the amp is defective, and we will fix it.
   
  2. Any defect in our products is magnified on the forums, due to our large volume production. We have literally thousands of Lyrs and Asgards out in the world. If they had lots of issues, we simply wouldn't be a viable business. Our stuff is extremely reliable. Remember, Mike and I have been doing this for several decades. If you check the resale prices on 20-year-old Sumo and Theta gear, you'll get a pretty good idea that we build solid products.
   
  To repeat some stuff from other threads regarding the relays, etc:
   
  1. Why did the Asgard and Lyr not have relay protection when we first launched? When we started the company two years ago, we assumed we were building the highest-possible sonic performance products for an audience looking for the same, and who knew that this could involve taking some precautions. It's very common in megabuck gear to have a "turn on sequence," for example, where if you turn on the preamp after the power amp, you might be looking at voice coils. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying this is how it is. Now, we understand clearly that we have to provide reasonable protection. 
   
  2. As far as we know, all early Asgard owners have been notified, and all who wanted the relay mute have it. A lot of people don't want relays. Of course, others still trickle in from secondhand and thirdhand owners. Relays have been in place since August 2011. If you want to know if an Asgard has a relay, ask the owner if there's a noticeable click 15-20 seconds after it powers up.
   
  3. Only about 10% of total Lyr production went out without a relay. However, although early Lyr owners were notified, the take rate on the relay addition is very low. Most don't want it. Again, if you want to know if it has the relay, ask the owner about the click.
   
  4. If you were not notified, or if you buy an early production Lyr or Asgard that has not had the relay added, the offer stands to retrofit any of them, from any owner (original or second/third/fourth/etc hand) for free. You only pay for shipping. "
   
   
   
   
   
  I personally have the Lyr and Asgard. Can't remember how many times I've forgotten to unplug my cans before turning on or off. No damage or issues to report. Both have the fix built in from the assembly line.


----------



## paradoxper

Use the search function. This question has been asked how many times now. I don't mean so sound like a jackass.
  It's the same thing over and over and over. Seriously.
   
  If you know about the relay issues of the past, then you should be able to figure how and where to source the information.
   
  Stop being lazy.


----------



## kolzo

I'm a newbie in these. I just received my Asgard and plugged my Senn HD 600 in it and it hums very loudly. Even with only the headphones plugged in it.
   
  Only power cord and headphones plugged and I get this sound, what is going on? And with volume at zero.
   
  Also slight variations in this noise at times. Edit: The humming exists only on the left side of the phones. No humming when connected directly to sound card. Sounds seem to be quieter on the left side when through amp.


----------



## ambertx

Hello all,
   
  I'm having a odd issue with my shiny new Valhalla. Intermittently the right channel would just cut out, I have experimented with different sources, cables and headphones and the issue is definitely with the amp. However when the right channel is dead if I turn the amp off the right channel would come back (residual power?) on then I can turn the amp on and both channels would stay working. Has anyone else experienced this issue? I'm thinking it may be caused by faulty tubes.


----------



## Barry S

kolzo said:


> I'm a newbie in these. I just received my Asgard and plugged my Senn HD 600 in it and it hums very loudly. Even with only the headphones plugged in it.
> 
> Only power cord and headphones plugged and I get this sound, what is going on? And with volume at zero.
> 
> Also slight variations in this noise at times. Edit: The humming exists only on the left side of the phones. No humming when connected directly to sound card. Sounds seem to be quieter on the left side when through amp.




You might want to try plugging the Asgard into some other circuits at your house. You could also try using a three prong to two-prong "cheater" plug. Sometimes issues with noisy circuits can bleed into audio equipment. If that doesn't help, call Schiit.


----------



## Barry S

ambertx said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm having a odd issue with my shiny new Valhalla. Intermittently the right channel would just cut out, I have experimented with different sources, cables and headphones and the issue is definitely with the amp. However when the right channel is dead if I turn the amp off the right channel would come back (residual power?) on then I can turn the amp on and both channels would stay working. Has anyone else experienced this issue? I'm thinking it may be caused by faulty tubes.




Have you tried swapping the left and right channel tubes? That would confirm a tube issue if the problems appeared in the opposite channel.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> I'm a newbie in these. I just received my Asgard and plugged my Senn HD 600 in it and it hums very loudly. Even with only the headphones plugged in it.
> 
> Only power cord and headphones plugged and I get this sound, what is going on? And with volume at zero.
> 
> Also slight variations in this noise at times. Edit: The humming exists only on the left side of the phones. No humming when connected directly to sound card. Sounds seem to be quieter on the left side when through amp.


 
   
 To troubleshoot a problem you need to isolate "knowns" and "unknowns".  What works.
  
 1) I take it that that no hum exists when the cans are plugged into the sound card and the Asgard is out of the loop.  Cans work, sound card works.
  
 2) Left side hums.  Try reversing the left and right input cables (red / white) Does the hum move to the right?
  
 3) If you have a different source.  CD player, try it.
  
 4) Test your AC outlet for proper wiring and grounding.  This tool is inexpensive and you should own one anyway to make sure you throw the right breaker when performing maintenance on a circuit.  You can pick one up at Lowes or Home Depot.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sperry-GFI6302-GFCI-Outlet-Tester/dp/B000RUL2UU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1356718897&sr=8-5&keywords=ac+tester
  
 5) If possible isolate the AC power source of the computer and the Asgard to separate to circuits.  You may need an extension cord.  Make sure the AC circuit is not overloaded or has high current devices like motors on it (ceiling fans).  If there is a power strip involved take one device off the strip and/or remove all devices from the strip except the Asgard and the computer.
  
 6) Check that the source interconnect cables are not touching any power cables.
  
 7) If you do have dirty power I love this device:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Furman-AC-215A-Conditioner-Auto-Resetting-Protection/dp/B003PJ6NPO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356719596&sr=8-1&keywords=furman+ac-215a
  
  [size=small]It's more than a surge [/size][size=small]suppressor, it actually conditions/corrects the power.  Furman makes professional grade products.  It only has 2 outlets.  If you get one, do not hang a power strip off the Furman.  Instead put the 2 most sensitive devices on the Furman and hang the Furman off a power strip.[/size]


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





ambertx said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm having a odd issue with my shiny new Valhalla. Intermittently the right channel would just cut out, I have experimented with different sources, cables and headphones and the issue is definitely with the amp. However when the right channel is dead if I turn the amp off the right channel would come back (residual power?) on then I can turn the amp on and both channels would stay working. Has anyone else experienced this issue? I'm thinking it may be caused by faulty tubes.


 
  I think your's and Barry's suspicions are correct, tubes.
   
  Besides swapping tubes, swap the source cables (L/R)
   
  Note:
  Even with a protection relay, it's not good to cycle power with your cans plugged in.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> I'm a newbie in these. I just received my Asgard and plugged my Senn HD 600 in it and it hums very loudly. Even with only the headphones plugged in it.
> 
> Only power cord and headphones plugged and I get this sound, what is going on? And with volume at zero.
> 
> Also slight variations in this noise at times. Edit: The humming exists only on the left side of the phones. No humming when connected directly to sound card. Sounds seem to be quieter on the left side when through amp.


 
   
  I had weird issues with my Asgard when plugged into a specific outlet in my house, so I'll echo what others have said here, definitely try a few different outlets and see it if goes away. If it's still there don't panic, Schiit will take care of you.


----------



## kolzo

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I had weird issues with my Asgard when plugged into a specific outlet in my house, so I'll echo what others have said here, definitely try a few different outlets and see it if goes away. If it's still there don't panic, Schiit will take care of you.


 
  I tried the amp with every sockets in the house, also with everything else unplugged. Only power cord and headphones connected. No changes. I guess I should try a ground loop isolator next. I don't live in USA and not sure if I can get one of those before monday as many of the electronic parts stores are closed here on weekends. I find it quite weird that this only affects the left side of the phones. When connected to sound card, everything is normal. Can it still be a ground loop problem when it affects only one side of the phones? Thanks.
   
  Edit: Also tried with two different power cords.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> I tried the amp with every sockets in the house, also with everything else unplugged. Only power cord and headphones connected. No changes. I guess I should try a ground loop isolator next. I don't live in USA and not sure if I can get one of those before monday as many of the electronic parts stores are closed here on weekends. I find it quite weird that this only affects the left side of the phones. When connected to sound card, everything is normal. Can it still be a ground loop problem when it affects only one side of the phones? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Also tried with two different power cords.


 
  Did you swap the left and right input cables?


----------



## kolzo

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Did you swap the left and right input cables?


 

 I did try that when connected to computer. If you mean the ones that go from Asgard to PC. No changes. But is the same with only power cord and headphones plugged so I don't see the point. Or maybe I'm not getting the point myself.


----------



## Iamnothim

I don't think I am following you....
  
 1) The hum is present ONLY when just the headphones are plugged in to the Asgard?  The computer is NOT connected?   Yes/No
  
 2) The hum Goes Away when the headphones and the Asgard are plugged into the computer?  With no music playing and at all volumes, no hum?  Yes/No.
  
 3) Since I assumed you were getting humming on the left side When Plugged into the Computer, I wanted you to roll the cables to see it it moved to the right side.  Naturally, if the hum only occurs when it's not plugged into the computer there are no cables to roll.
  
 4) If there is a hum/noise when plugged into the computer, do you have a CD/DVD player or other source (iPhone) that you can plug directly into the Asgard to test?
  
 5) If #1 is the case, there is some sort of impedance issue going on, such that it Goes Away when there is a Load on the inputs.  That sounds like an AC power issue.  PC's have power supplies with fans.


----------



## kolzo

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I don't think I am following you....
> 
> 1) The hum is present ONLY when just the headphones are plugged in to the Asgard?  The computer is NOT connected?   Yes/No
> 
> ...


 

 1. No, humming is present all the times with Asgard, connected to PC or not. Or only headphones in or not.
   
  2. No, humming does not go away when the Asgard is connected to computer. Only when headphones are directly connected to sound card the humming disappears. (no Asgard)
   
  3. Sorry, was a bit badly explained. Hopefully not this one.
   
  4. Not really anything else to test with. But the humming occurs all the time with Asgard anywhere with any sockets or connections.
   
  5. As short as possible: Whenever the Asgard is used the humming stays the same also volume levels don't affect. But no humming occurs in any setup that doesn't have the Asgard in it.
   
  Also this humming only affects the left side of the headphones. The right side plays probably fine but is hard to listen while large hissing sound comes from the left side. The left side also plays music but in a very little volume. Maybe as in 1/5 of the right side but hard to hear from the hissing.


----------



## paradoxper

You should probably try a cheater plug with Asgard in the mix. You can also try swapping the RCA to see if the hiss goes to the right channel.
   
  It's most likely a ground loop issue.


----------



## kolzo

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> You should probably try a cheater plug with Asgard in the mix. You can also try swapping the RCA to see if the hiss goes to the right channel.
> 
> It's most likely a ground loop issue.


 

 Swapped the RCA. No change. The hissing is there also without the RCA plugged. About the cheater plug. I don't know how to go about it with European sockets. But I could get a ground loop isolator at least.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> Swapped the RCA. No change. The hissing is there also without the RCA plugged. About the cheater plug. I don't know how to go about it with European sockets. But I could get a ground loop isolator at least.


 
  It's not the RCA then. (I've had some RCA's cause noise with my Lyr). The ground loop isolator should be the fix.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> 1. No, humming is present all the times with Asgard, connected to PC or not. Or only headphones in or not.
> 
> 2. No, humming does not go away when the Asgard is connected to computer. Only when headphones are directly connected to sound card the humming disappears. (no Asgard)
> 
> ...


 
  I'm out of suggestions.
  As the "dox's" says try the source cable roll. (maybe you already did this... if so, sorry)
  Since I'm leaning toward AC power issues dox's Cheater Plug will isolate a whacked out ground.
   
  Sooo... take the PC out of the loop.  We have to eliminate the noise.... Thinking out loud, it's the power or the Asgard has issues.....  What about taking it to a friends house to plug in? 
   
  EDIT:  That said the friends AC power is an "unknown".   We need "knowns"


----------



## paradoxper

You can also try the U.S./Canada GFCI equivalent. A trip switch. If you know what that is.


----------



## kolzo

Just a thought. How is the ground loop isolator supposed to help in this case? I mean isn't it connected between the Asgard and the computer with RCA. And if the humming is present even without the RCA can it help at all? Well I'm quite confused.


----------



## gefski

iamnothim said:


> I think your's and Barry's suspicions are correct, tubes.
> 
> Besides swapping tubes, swap the source cables (L/R)
> 
> ...



I agree, one thing at a time, swap tubes first. That also accomplishes "re-inserting" them. 

I believe that Valhalla, unlike Asgard and Lyr, does not have or need a relay. The tubes themselves provide slow on/off. My Valhalla is "plugged" all the time. I of course always have volume all the way down when powering.

My habits in this regard stem from years of using "speaker" amps to drive early Stax and Signet Electret phones. Somewhere along the line I "learned" that tube amps (Quicksilver and Sonic Frontiers in my case) don't "like" to be on and disconnected. (Correct my opinions as necessary, I'm no EE major).

Unlike my babbling here, my next Schiit post will be fun.


----------



## Iamnothim

It just tests the outlets to make sure they are wired / grounded correctly.
  If grounds aren't properly terminated in a circuit they can act like an Antenna.
   
  You probably have a defective unit.  These are just things you can check.
  If they don't find the trouble you can tell Schiit that you have done everything you possibly could to correct the problem.
   
  If you went to another home with your Asgard and your cans, plugged it in, and got the same noise... slam dunk it's the Asgard.
  Since you don't need the computer to reproduce the problem.  Should be very quick to do.


----------



## gefski

The two Valhallas, each at perfect temperature, promised an evening of musical bliss.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Nice. Enjoying a very tasty Stone IPA here in the desert southwest...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> Just a thought. How is the ground loop isolator supposed to help in this case? I mean isn't it connected between the Asgard and the computer with RCA. And if the humming is present even without the RCA can it help at all? Well I'm quite confused.


 
  As OP tested no noise directly from soundcard, noise present even without RCA.
  Leads to the problem being with a groundloop and the amplifier.
   
  The ground loops isolators uses a transformer to eliminate the noise.


----------



## Heathen999

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Nice. Enjoying a very tasty Stone IPA here in the desert southwest...


 
  Man I havent Stone IPA in a long time. I might have bring a 24 pack of that home tomorrow night.


----------



## swmtnbiker

heathen999 said:


> Man I havent Stone IPA in a long time. I might have bring a 24 pack of that home tomorrow night.




Picked up a case at my local Costco last week for $28.


----------



## Barry S

You guys were making me thirsty--no choice but to pull a Snake Dog IPA from the fridge.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Looks like it's gonna be one of those nights...


----------



## Barry S

I a





swmtnbiker said:


> Looks like it's gonna be one of those nights...




I am a hop-head and a schiit-head.


----------



## swmtnbiker

I've got a Ska Brewing Decadent on deck here. Yeah baby.


----------



## Barry S

swmtnbiker said:


> I've got a Ska Brewing Decadent on deck here. Yeah baby.




Mmmm. Haven't had that, but have enjoyed tasty cans of Modus Hoperandi.


----------



## swmtnbiker

The Decadent is one of the best Imperial IPAs out there IMO. It's got the grapefruit. Grab a bomber if you get the chance.


----------



## gefski

swmtnbiker said:


> Nice. Enjoying a very tasty Stone IPA here in the desert southwest...




Desert Southwest? Here I am in Seattle, in darkness from Nov to March. But listening to Giant Giant Sand helps. Looks like I accidentally started a brew thread.


----------



## Barry S

swmtnbiker said:


> The Decadent is one of the best Imperial IPAs out there IMO. It's got the grapefruit. Grab a bomber if you get the chance.




Not much of a double IPA guy-- most of 'em are too sweet for me, but I'll keep a lookout for it. I like a nice bitter session beer--Lagunitas IPA on tap--yessiree!


----------



## swmtnbiker

Can't argue with that.


----------



## Iamnothim

Pabst Blue Ribbon
  That's what I'll have !


----------



## kolzo

I visited a friend today to test whether the humming is present there. There were no changes. But we noticed that it made almost no difference whether the left RCA cable was connected to the Asgard or not. I had to put volume quite loud to hear a tiny sound from the left side through the humming.
   
  So. The humming is on the left side even when no RCA is connected. When connected, a very low volume for the left side and perfectly normal on the right side. It just seems that the stuff that deals with the left channel on Asgard is dead. It can get only a tiny amount of volume like there is a minimal contact with whatever connects it to the left RCA slot.
   
  Also when the headphone is connected half way to the Asgard, both sides get the right sides' sound. I don't know if this means anything.


----------



## Barry S

kolzo-- Sounds like it's time to send it back for an exchange.


----------



## Erukian

Ninkasi Total Domination IPA. For those who live in the pacific northwest, they know.


----------



## kolzo

Quote: 





barry s said:


> kolzo-- Sounds like it's time to send it back for an exchange.


 

 Really wouldn't want to send it back as it costs somewhere around 50 euros to get it back from Europe. Then maybe wait another two months to get it back. But that just may be the only option.


----------



## jontron

I have a Lyr and Bifrost coming in next week. Very excited! I'll post some pictures once I get everything set up.


----------



## Heathen999

Congrats jontron.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> I visited a friend today to test whether the humming is present there. There were no changes. But we noticed that it made almost no difference whether the left RCA cable was connected to the Asgard or not. I had to put volume quite loud to hear a tiny sound from the left side through the humming.
> 
> So. The humming is on the left side even when no RCA is connected. When connected, a very low volume for the left side and perfectly normal on the right side. It just seems that the stuff that deals with the left channel on Asgard is dead. It can get only a tiny amount of volume like there is a minimal contact with whatever connects it to the left RCA slot.
> 
> Also when the headphone is connected half way to the Asgard, both sides get the right sides' sound. I don't know if this means anything.


 
  I'm bummed that your unit is defective.
  Any noise is too much noise.  I kept hoping it would be something else.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jontron said:


> I have a Lyr and Bifrost coming in next week. Very excited! I'll post some pictures once I get everything set up.


 
  You'll be a happy camper.
   
  Whatever you do, if you like your wallet, don't go here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/4755#post_8999128


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> Really wouldn't want to send it back as it costs somewhere around 50 euros to get it back from Europe. Then maybe wait another two months to get it back. But that just may be the only option.


 
   
  Before worrying about it get in touch with Schiit, I'm sure they'll take care of you.


----------



## Maxvla

iamnothim said:


> Whatever you do, if you like your wallet, don't go here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/4755#post_8999128



As you link him the thread...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> As you link him the thread...


 
  oops.  My bad.


----------



## jontron

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> You'll be a happy camper.
> 
> Whatever you do, if you like your wallet, don't go here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/4755#post_8999128


 
   
  Well, any hope of ever saving money has just been shattered by that click, haha! Doesn't help that I'm already in recovery mode after buying the LCD-3's.
   
  I have a couple guitar amps that use tubes. I use to change out the tubes in them to get different tones out of my amps. The thought never occurred to me that I could do the same thing with a headphone amp. I guess you don't even have to re-bias the amp either, huh?
   
  Thanks for the awesome link! I can tell I'm going to have lots of fun with this.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jontron said:


> Well, any hope of ever saving money has just been shattered by that click, haha! Doesn't help that I'm already in recovery mode after buying the LCD-3's.
> 
> I have a couple guitar amps that use tubes. I use to change out the tubes in them to get different tones out of my amps. The thought never occurred to me that I could do the same thing with a headphone amp. I guess you don't even have to re-bias the amp either, huh?
> 
> Thanks for the awesome link! I can tell I'm going to have lots of fun with this.


 
  Welcome to the Tube Junkie Kingdom.
   
  You are correct, only the power tubes need to be re-biased.  EL34's etc.
  The Lyr is a hybrid with S.S. power and tube pre-amp.
   
  You are now in the ECC88, E1CC88, 6922, CV2492, 6DJ8 domain.
  Amprex, Mullard, Seimans, Telefunken....   Vintage 1960's  NOS/NIB/Used
   
  Just like your Fender, Marshall, etc.  You will be chasing a sound until the end of time..... or your funds.
  With LCD-3's.   Are you kidding me?  Magnificent?


----------



## jontron

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Welcome to the Tube Junkie Kingdom.
> 
> You are correct, only the power tubes need to be re-biased.  EL34's etc.
> The Lyr is a hybrid with S.S. power and tube pre-amp.
> ...


 
   
  Can't wait to check out some other tubes! Do you have any favorites so far? I haven't read a lot of pages in that thread (yet), but do people tend to be partial a particular brand or type?
   
  The LCD-3's are absolutely magnificent! I got to sit in a room with a few different headphones (including the Grado PS1000's and LCD-2's). I walked in intending to get the LCD-2's. After reading how the LCD-3's where only about a 20% improvement from the LCD-2's, I didn't think the price difference could justify the cost. But, after actually hearing the LCD-3's, I couldn't resist. To my ears, it was way more than just a 20% improvement. Fell completely in love!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





jontron said:


> Can't wait to check out some other tubes! Do you have any favorites so far? I haven't read a lot of pages in that thread (yet), but do people tend to be partial a particular brand or type?
> 
> The LCD-3's are absolutely magnificent! I got to sit in a room with a few different headphones (including the Grado PS1000's and LCD-2's). I walked in intending to get the LCD-2's. After reading how the LCD-3's where only about a 20% improvement from the LCD-2's, I didn't think the price difference could justify the cost. But, after actually hearing the LCD-3's, I couldn't resist. To my ears, it was way more than just a 20% improvement. Fell completely in love!


 
  Good feedback on the LCD3's   I just picked up some used LCD2's (rev 1) to go along with my Senn HD650's.
  I can no longer listen to the 650's.   Part of me want to get some rev 2's .... I've already spent a ton on 2 Lyr/Bifrost setups (upstairs / downstairs) and I think the LCD3's are way over budget.   Looking at HD800, Beyer T1, maybe HE5LE.  To get something different.   I just find the Audeze sound very appealing thus a safe bet.  Do I want LCD3's.   Damn straight.
   
  You will read that I am very partial to Amprex tubes.  I've made a couple posts suggesting Orange Globes as a nice place to start.  Other folks like them as well. Amprex is my only point of reference.  There are a lot of folks with a whole lot more tubes to talk about.
   
  I need to diversify to Mullards or Seimans, but now my focus is upgrading the HD650's.  For now, I'm happy with my tube inventory.


----------



## ambertx

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I think your's and Barry's suspicions are correct, tubes.
> 
> Besides swapping tubes, swap the source cables (L/R)
> 
> ...


 
I have switched the tubes but it is still the left channel. I am now able to reliably reproduce the issue, the right channel cuts out every time I remove and re-insert my headphones in. Is this a known issue?


----------



## swmtnbiker

erukian said:


> Ninkasi Total Domination IPA. For those who live in the pacific northwest, they know.




Damn you.


----------



## swmtnbiker

iamnothim said:


> Pabst Blue Ribbon
> That's what I'll have !




I'm sorry.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> You certainly have the credentials


 
   
   
  Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> For HD800s, my vote would go to Valhalla.


 
    I think I'm leaning toward Lyr....but I can't think.......
   
  Thank you anywayz..


----------



## gmahler2u

Oh Come ON SCHITT!!!
   
*STATUS: Backordered. Due to unforeseen demand and production delays, Lyr will not ship until the end of December. Sorry for the inconvenience.*
   
  I'm about to order Lyr...this happened!!!


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





ambertx said:


> I have switched the tubes but it is still the left channel. I am now able to reliably reproduce the issue, the right channel cuts out every time I remove and re-insert my headphones in. Is this a known issue?


 
   
  I have not heard of anyone else having this or similar issues that occur consistently when plugging your headphones back in. I'd send Schiit an email, they'd know if anyone.


----------



## kolzo

I've been thinking about buying Xonar Essence STX/ST as a temporary solution as I probably need to wait for a while now that I need to send the Asgard back . I'm under impression that it would work well as a DAC (better than DG) after switching back to amp again. I currently have only Xonar DG with these recently purchased HD 600. What do you guys think? Will there be problems with double amping if I do this?


----------



## Barry S

gmahler2u said:


> Oh Come ON SCHITT!!!
> 
> *STATUS: Backordered. Due to unforeseen demand and production delays, Lyr will not ship until the end of December. Sorry for the inconvenience.*
> 
> I'm about to order Lyr...this happened!!!




Around these parts, we have a term for this point in the calendar year--we call it, "the end of December".


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





barry s said:


> Around these parts, we have a term for this point in the calendar year--we call it, "the end of December".


 

 LOL!!! yeah I totally forgot about that...I should wait..


----------



## gmahler2u

Question for y'all have Valhalla....
   
  Can I do some tube rolling with the new version of valhalla?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Question for y'all have Valhalla....
> 
> Can I do some tube rolling with the new version of valhalla?


 
   
  Yes, that was the point of the Valhalla update.


----------



## Analgesic

I got my Lyr this week, when I turn it off I hear some funky popping/cracking noises. I thought this was supposed to be fixed?


----------



## Cakensaur

Ordered my Modi 9 days ago, no email from  them yet.. ill give it till the 5th or so and chase up i think.


----------



## Barry S

analgesic said:


> I got my Lyr this week, when I turn it off I hear some funky popping/cracking noises. I thought this was supposed to be fixed?




Is the relay working? When you turn the Lyr on, do you hear a click from the unit after 10-15 seconds? And the same click a few seconds after you turn the Lyr off?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





analgesic said:


> I got my Lyr this week, when I turn it off I hear some funky popping/cracking noises. I thought this was supposed to be fixed?


 
   
  That's "normal" for the Lyr, I get the impression. The relay protects (at turn-on) against the _really_ loud pops (not the 'petering out' sound at turn-off).


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> That's "normal" for the Lyr, I get the impression. The relay protects (at turn-on) against the _really_ loud pops (not the 'petering out' sound at turn-off).


 
20 second relay-switched delayed output and immediate relay mute on turn-off


----------



## olddtfan

Quote: 





ambertx said:


> I have switched the tubes but it is still the left channel. I am now able to reliably reproduce the issue, the right channel cuts out every time I remove and re-insert my headphones in. Is this a known issue?


 
  No it's not i would contact Schitt.


----------



## gmahler2u

Hello everyone.
   
  I have a question. is new valhalla come with stock tube?
   
  Thank you


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have a question. is new valhalla come with stock tube?
> 
> Thank you


 
   
  Is the question, _"Does the new Valhalla come with stock tubes?"_ ?
   
  If so, yes it's shipped with stock tubes. Four of them.
   
  (though I have a feeling that's not your question! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  .... or do you mean, _"does the new one come with the 'old' stock tubes?"_ ?


----------



## HayU

Received my Valhalla and Bifrost just before Christmas. Using USB connection from Dell Inspiron Laptop (2007) to Beyer DT990 (600ohms). Really like the sound, would using s/pdif or toslink connection improve the sound? Thinking of getting a USB to s/pdif converter (musical fidelity). ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## jontron

Quote: 





hayu said:


> Received my Valhalla and Bifrost just before Christmas. Using USB connection from Dell Inspiron Laptop (2007) to Beyer DT990 (600ohms). Really like the sound, would using s/pdif or toslink connection improve the sound? Thinking of getting a USB to s/pdif converter (musical fidelity). ?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  There's a thread on this topic, actually. You can find it here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/274781/dacs-usb-vs-coax-vs-optical/45#post_9000447
   
  The thread is old, but check out my post.
   
  If anyone has any updated input on this topic, it would be great to know!


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





hayu said:


> Received my Valhalla and Bifrost just before Christmas. Using USB connection from Dell Inspiron Laptop (2007) to Beyer DT990 (600ohms). Really like the sound, would using s/pdif or toslink connection improve the sound? Thinking of getting a USB to s/pdif converter (musical fidelity). ?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  The general impressions seem to be that Schiit's USB implementation is quite good, to the point that some people prefer it to the other connections. It mainly seems dependent on the quality of the other connections (apparently some Mac optical connections aren't that great?)


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Is the question, _"Does the new Valhalla come with stock tubes?"_ ?
> 
> If so, yes it's shipped with stock tubes. Four of them.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes...my grammar!! was out of crappy world...
  you're right..but not the second question.
  "does the new valhalla come with stock tubes?"
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## paradoxper

Schiit owners, I've got a question about the clicking noise. 
  There's been all kinds of accounts of the normal sample rate changing clicking, reminder clicking
  (clicking when no music is playing, like, every 5 minutes or so) and so on.
   
  I've just recently realized that I'll get a clicking every time a torrent of mine finishes. I'm on Mac and use Transmission.
  Anybody else experiencing this, regardless of OS or application used?
   
  And finally, it doesn't bother me one bit, it's a nice indication if I'm not looking that it's done. However I'm open to insight
  on why exactly this occurs.


----------



## Barry S

paradoxper said:


> Schiit owners, I've got a question about the clicking noise.
> There's been all kinds of accounts of the normal sample rate changing clicking, reminder clicking
> (clicking when no music is playing, like, every 5 minutes or so) and so on.
> 
> ...




Is this a clicking from the dac itself, or a sound passed through the dac to the amp--headphone? I hear a click from within my Gungnir when the VCXOs lock or unlock, but nothing in response to operating system sounds. I think there might have been separate options to set the output of general audio vs. system sounds, so music gets routed to a USB or SPDIF driver while system sounds are fed to the PC speaker driver. I'll have to check to confirm this, but maybe the Mac has some similar settings.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





barry s said:


> Is this a clicking from the dac itself, or a sound passed through the dac to the amp--headphone? I hear a click from within my Gungnir when the VCXOs lock or unlock, but nothing in response to operating system sounds. I think there might have been separate options to set the output of general audio vs. system sounds, so music gets routed to a USB or SPDIF driver while system sounds are fed to the PC speaker driver. I'll have to check to confirm this, but maybe the Mac has some similar settings.


 
  Yes Barry,
  In the Midi setup of a Mac you can route "notification" sound to either the internal speaker output or the source USB/SPDIF output.
   
   
 Dox,
  I'm using a Bifrost, Mac, with  Amarra HiFi.
  
 Yes, my Bifrost clicks twice externally, (not through the cans) when the sample rate of the source music changes.  I believe that Schiit documents this as normal.
  
 My Bifrost will also click periodically when I halt iTunes / Amarra.  This makes sense because it is searching for a clock to sync with.
  
 Otherwise no sounds.
  
 I have an Amarra software anomaly.
 On spurious occasions a song will play for 1 or 2 seconds, stop, reset to the beginning, and play.  I have not considered if this happens during a change in the music source sampling rate.  I'm not paying attention.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





barry s said:


> Is this a clicking from the dac itself, or a sound passed through the dac to the amp--headphone? I hear a click from within my Gungnir when the VCXOs lock or unlock, but nothing in response to operating system sounds. I think there might have been separate options to set the output of general audio vs. system sounds, so music gets routed to a USB or SPDIF driver while system sounds are fed to the PC speaker driver. I'll have to check to confirm this, but maybe the Mac has some similar settings.


 
  Ah sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. This is a physical clicking from Gungnir. It's not something I paid attention to with Bifrost.
   
  Correct, there's also a clicking from the DAC when changing sample rates (which is normal).
   
  My output is set to the Digital Out. I'll start playing with system alerts.
   
  Maybe others can confirm if using BT,UT, Deluge, RT, Vuze, etc. And report back with your findings as well as noting what OS you're running and what input you're using USB, Coax, or Optical.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. This is a physical clicking from Gungnir. It's not something I paid attention to with Bifrost.
> 
> Correct, there's also a clicking from the DAC when changing sample rates (which is normal).
> 
> ...


 
  Will do.


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. This is a physical clicking from Gungnir. It's not something I paid attention to with Bifrost.
> 
> Correct, there's also a clicking from the DAC when changing sample rates (which is normal).
> 
> ...


 
  If the dac is sitting idle for a while, there will be no audio signal.  When a song finishes in and there is a notification sounding, the DAC wil "click" back on for that sound to be transmitted.  This happens with my Bifrost whith email notifications, finished rips, etc.  Is this what you are referring to?


----------



## Mediahound

Try USB. My Bifrost clicks like crazy but only on optical or coaxial digital. USB = zero clicking.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





pelli said:


> If the dac is sitting idle for a while, there will be no audio signal.  When a song finishes in and there is a notification sounding, the DAC wil "click" back on for that sound to be transmitted.  This happens with my Bifrost whith email notifications, finished rips, etc.  Is this what you are referring to?


 
  My Bifrost does not have USB.
  On a Mac the Midi config will look like this.  With both music & notifications going to "Built-in Output" (See Icons together)
   

   
  My Cambridge DAC Magic has USB and it clocks the Mac.  In this configuration the USB is output interface for music and the Built-in Output is used for notifications.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





pelli said:


> If the dac is sitting idle for a while, there will be no audio signal.  When a song finishes in and there is a notification sounding, the DAC wil "click" back on for that sound to be transmitted.  This happens with my Bifrost whith email notifications, finished rips, etc.  Is this what you are referring to?


 
  I am indeed referring to what would be system notifications in 1 way or another. This particular scenario deals with the clicking as soon as a torrent file has finished.
   
  I just tested and do no experience any clicking when using XLD, nor do I hear clicking for Email notifications.
   
  It's kind of quirky how our experiences differ from one another. And again, why does it happen?


----------



## HayU

Thanks for help. USB sounds good to me. I think I will stick with it. on another related topic. Any problems with volume level on the Valhalla. I note i need to set volume control to about half or slightly more to hear subtilties of classical music. Is it normal to need to have volume control half way? I have set laptop volume to 100%
  In my other system (Rotel CD player and integrated amp) I could set the volume to 2.5 or 3 out of 10 and be at the maximum for my ears.
   
  Thank You
  Larry


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





hayu said:


> volume level on the Valhalla. I note i need to set volume control to about half or slightly more to hear subtleties of classical music. Is it normal to need to have volume control half way? I have set laptop volume to 100%
> 
> 
> Thank You
> Larry


 
   
  Sounds about right ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  My Valhalla volume is almost always "around Noon" - 11 a.m. to 2 p.m.
   
  And it's all good.


----------



## HayU

Hi, thanks for confirmation...i'll stop messing with the volume settings  etc. and just listen to the music..Happy New year
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Larry


----------



## htxmade

I just ordered the Valhalla's for my DT990/600 ohm.  Now I need to look into getting a DAC.  I've seen pictures of the Valhallas stacked with the Bifrost.  Is that a good combo to go with?  Because I was looking into getting the Modi DAC because of the USB connection so I can hook it to my Mac computer


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





htxmade said:


> I just ordered the Valhalla's for my DT990/600 ohm.  Now I need to look into getting a DAC.  I've seen pictures of the Valhallas stacked with the Bifrost.  Is that a good combo to go with?  Because I was looking into getting the Modi DAC because of the USB connection.


 
  My opinion is limited to the fact that I own a Schiit Bifrost and Lyr.  Cans are HD650 and LCD2.  Software Mac with Amarra.
  I also own a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus.
   
  I use the Dac Magic with my room system because I prefer the sound of the Bifrost with my headphones.
   
  IMO:
  The Bifrost is a very nice DAC.  On their web site Schiit almost prefers Toslink optical over USB.
  I would concur.  My Bifrost does not have a USB interface.  I use USB on my DB+ and as I said I prefer my Bifrost withToslink on cans.
  Toslink does limit clocking to 24bit 96kHz but Amarra handles my 192kHz files fine.  I cannot hear a difference.
  Rather than down sample I am saving money and buying 96kHz flac from HD Tracks.
   
  Stacking  Modi vs Bifrost.
  Because your Valhalla has tubes sticking out the top the DAC must go underneath or to the side.
  The Modi will not go under the Valhalla either due to size.  The Bifrost will look great under the Valhalla.
   
  Interface.  If you are using a Mac the 3.5mm headphone jack is also an Optical Toslink port.  As such you don't need USB.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## htxmade

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My opinion is limited to the fact that I own a Schiit Bifrost and Lyr.  Cans are HD650 and LCD2.  Software Mac with Amarra.
> I also own a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus.
> 
> I use the Dac Magic with my room system because I prefer the sound of the Bifrost with my headphones.
> ...


 
  Yep I have the 2011 MacBook Pro model


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





htxmade said:


> Yep I have the 2011 MacBook Pro model


 
  Excellent
  Now you have the option of going stock Bifrost with Optical Toslink.
  You just buy the 3.5mm adapter cone ($2) for the end of a standard Toslink cable and it starts glowing.


----------



## Iamnothim

I like this adapter for my MacBook Pro
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J24OO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00


----------



## htxmade

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I like this adapter for my MacBook Pro
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J24OO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Excellent
> Now you have the option of going stock Bifrost with Optical Toslink.
> You just buy the 3.5mm adapter cone ($2) for the end of a standard Toslink cable and it starts glowing.


 
  Thank you thank you very much sir!


----------



## gmahler2u

I prefer this kind...
   
  http://www.amazon.com/6ft-Toslink-Mini-Cable/dp/B000FMXKC8/ref=pd_sim_e_6


----------



## Iamnothim

I use that configuration for a Mac Mini. Absolutely.
   
  With a MacBook Pro a cable that comes straight out the laptop gets a lot of shear stress.
  I ran that cable (Apple style) for some time and it was always getting whacked.
   
  The 90 degree adapter pivots front to back so the cable is streamlined to the back.
   
  That said I do like to minimize "adaptors and connectors" but optical signals are very resilient.
   
  I have had no problem with the adapter.
  I use a hight grade Toslink cable.  Mine are a lot beefier. about $20.


----------



## gefski

hayu said:


> Thanks for help. USB sounds good to me. I think I will stick with it. on another related topic. Any problems with volume level on the Valhalla. I note i need to set volume control to about half or slightly more to hear subtilties of classical music. Is it normal to need to have volume control half way? I have set laptop volume to 100%
> In my other system (Rotel CD player and integrated amp) I could set the volume to 2.5 or 3 out of 10 and be at the maximum for my ears.
> 
> Thank You
> Larry



I started with a V-Link into my Bifrost just as I had always used with my DacMagic. But after spending time direct into Bifrost USB, I never wanted to go back. Also Bifrost USB works with full hibernate mode in Jplay and the V-Link does not.

Volume control for me is always 11 to 12.

Enjoy it!


----------



## WhiteCrow

So, out of no where tonight. my lyr just suddenly dropped volume. It was running pretty hot but it has never done that before. thoughts?


----------



## DTrewwye

Quote: 





whitecrow said:


> So, out of no where tonight. my lyr just suddenly dropped volume. It was running pretty hot but it has never done that before. thoughts?


 
  Not familiar, got any spare tubes lyin around?


----------



## gmahler2u

Yes...It's stacks of Schiit!!!  Just got the Valhalla, I can't say anything But looks and Sounds good.


----------



## swmtnbiker

gmahler2u said:


> Yes...It's stacks of Schiit!!!  Just got the Valhalla, I can't say anything But looks and Sounds good.




I'll raise you, one piece of Schiit...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I'll raise you, one piece of Schiit...


 
  Ya'll have too may ears.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Iamnothim* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Ya'll have too may ears.


 
   
  I actually don't have the Magni/Modi or Asgard any longer (the Lyr made me too happy).


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I actually don't have the Magni/Modi or Asgard any longer (the Lyr made me too happy).


 
  yup, I'm chill'n with my Lyr..... now


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> yup, I'm chill'n with my Lyr..... now


 
   
  +1


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> yup, I'm chill'n with my Lyr..... now


 

 which tube is that?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> which tube is that?


 
  I believe those are  NOS AMPEREX USN-CEP 6922 1966 with smudged labels.


----------



## Synergist969

To whom it may concern/interest:
   
      I too am a pleased Schiit owner, (Bifrost), along with a pair of Senn. HD650's, single-ended wired...and have been debating between purchasing the Lyr or Mjolnir amp, (balanced cable soon to be on the way)...  I have heard that the Mjolnir is an "end-game" amp, HOWEVER, I keep hearing about an upcoming "Statement" amp from Schiit...and wonder if it might be better to hold off on purchasing one of the afformentioned amps in favor of this new, as yet unrevealed Statement" amp..
   
      Does anyone have any information regarding this new proposed amp., its configuration, capabilities, etc., ?  If/when it might be on the market? 
   
      My appologies if this topic has been previously beaten to death or otherwise dealt with, however, if there is coverage of it, please let me know where to find it?
   
  Thank you.
   
  Sincerely,
  T.A. Kogstrom 
   
  P.S.  Has anyone ever experienced distortion or noise from their Bifrost if the power cable plug was not alligned "just so"...?  I sometimes hear something on my right channel and wonder why it seems to disapear if I reallign my power cable/plug...(the left and right RCA output cables are solidly coupled to their respective receptors on the Bifrost).


----------



## Erukian

I'm not aware of any public info on the statement amp at this time as Jason has been pretty hush about it, probably to not get people too excited and cannibalize sales on his other products. If swapping out a power cable doesn't fix your bifrost, I would reach out to schiit directly to get it resolved. It sounds like it's intermittent for you though, so I would try to figure out exactly what's causing it.
   
   
  There's always going to be better gear coming out. You just have to decide like when buying a PC, do you wait for the next generation of intel chips to make their way into PC's and Notebooks or do you just buy what's available. I like this quote from schiit.com's site. 
   
   
  Quote: Schiit.com 





> We also get a lot of people asking about our products for $80 and $100 headphones. Guys (and girls), you should be spending most of your budget on transducers (that is, headphones), then looking at amps and DACs if necessary. The transducer will have the biggest effect on your system’s sound. Our amps won’t turn an $80 Sennheiser into a $1000 Audeze. Nobody’s amps will. Our DACs won’t convert 128kbps MP3s to 24/96 lossless, either. Yes, I know, big shocker.


----------



## Butler

My bifrost, which had been packed away for a bit until recently whereas I sold off my other headphones, is occasionally cutting in and out over USB with Windows 8. Anyone else have this issue? It worked fine in Windows 7 previously.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> To whom it may concern/interest:
> 
> I too am a pleased Schiit owner, (Bifrost), along with a pair of Senn. HD650's, single-ended wired...and have been debating between purchasing the Lyr or Mjolnir amp, (balanced cable soon to be on the way)...  I have heard that the Mjolnir is an "end-game" amp, HOWEVER, I keep hearing about an upcoming "Statement" amp from Schiit...and wonder if it might be better to hold off on purchasing one of the afformentioned amps in favor of this new, as yet unrevealed Statement" amp..
> 
> ...


 
  There's no solid information on either statement amp or DAC. And all info is subject to change.
   
  The amp will probably not drop for a few months. Speculation has the statement amp as a more/full featured Mjolnir.
  There's also heresay the statement amp will offer binding posts and therefore, may be more geared towards speakers.
   
  The Mjolnir with x headphone can indeed be "endgame". But IMO, that's all relative to each person. So I could have easily
  been completely satisfied with the Lyr, for example.
   
  I'd advise upgrading the headphone if considering Mjolnir. Otherwise, I'd see it hampering the overall potential.
  (Not that you wouldn't get immense enjoyment out of using the HD650).


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> There's no solid information on either statement amp or DAC. *And all info is subject to change.*
> 
> The amp will probably not drop for a few months.


 
   
  Hey all,
   
  Since you at least deserve a statement with respect to the Statement products, here it is, in all its ugly glory:
   
*Statement DAC*
   
  The Statement DAC has been delayed twice now due to changes in the DSP platform we planned to use. In engineering terms, our parts went "end of life." That means, in human terms, "don't use them for new designs." At first, one family of parts went end of life, so we switched to a related family. That family tree is now ending. Which means we've now switched to an all-new DSP engine.
   
  The problem is, every time you change DSPs, you change development platform, code, simulation, etc--and that requires both re-investment in new development tools and time to get used to the vagaries of a new platform. So, we're really, really, really, really late. 
   
  On the positive side, the Statement DAC will truly be an insane piece once it's done. It is of the magnitude of Mike Moffat's first Theta DSPre, introduced in 1986 after 4 years of engineering design, innumerable "Frankenstein" CD players, and intensive DSP development (including a RAND Corp mathematician). Now, that doesn't mean it will *be* a DSPre, with digital preamp functionality, nor is it anything like it except in terms of the amount of time and effort put into it. That's all the data we can release now. 
   
*Statement Amp*
   
  The Statement amp is much more mature, but we put its development on hold so it can be more closely aligned with the DAC. Also, transformer issues have slowed us down in iterating the design. Argh.
   
  What I can tell you about the Statement amp is that it is more than a feature--packed Mjolnir. Think of a complete integrated amp, with special attention paid to the headphone output side, and yes, speaker binding posts. Same circlotron-style topology, but significantly different in execution for these power and current levels, and with a very different, relay-switched stepped attenuator volume control. Expect 50W into 8 ohms and multiple levels of gain, with the intention of serving everything from IEMs to loudspeakers. And yes, solid-state or hybrid will be available--but it'll be a one-time choice. There's no switching back and forth. 
   
*Timeframe*
   
  I've promised so much for so long that I'm loathe to say anything, but if I had to guess, it would be summer for the amp and maybe later for the DAC. We're going to try to keep them within a couple of months of each other. If we can launch together, we will. But we may not. Remember, guess =/= promise. Until we're ready to take orders, that's all there is to say.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## paradoxper

Antsy, antsy.


----------



## Iamnothim

Great to hear that Schiit is an innovator and Not "Same Old Soup, Just Reheated". 
That's why I own their products.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Also, apologies to everyone who's waited so long, as plans change. We've gone through a lot of evolution simply keeping up with demand--going from (almost literally) a garage operation to a reasonably-sized dedicated production facility in just a couple of years. We'll have a photo tour up soon, so you can see what it takes to design and build our stuff, starting at the PCB assembly house and chassis fabricators to our own shop and R&D labs. Aaannd...bear with us--there are a lot of exciting things coming!


----------



## Maxvla

Thanks for the update. Sorry about the part problems, especially having to redesign and then again. This announcement really helps me know what to do with myself for a while, heh. We'll see what's going on in 6 months or so.

Speaker taps on the amp makes me curious about high efficiency near field speakers for desktop. Hmm.


----------



## MickeyVee

Reading about new Schiit while listening though some awesome Schiit. Life is good! Thanks for the update Jason!


----------



## TigzStudio

Looking forward to the Schiit Solid-State Statement.


----------



## jronan2

Thank you for the update.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> *Statement Amp*
> 
> The Statement amp is much more mature, but we put its development on hold so it can be more closely aligned with the DAC. Also, transformer issues have slowed us down in iterating the design. Argh.
> 
> What I can tell you about the Statement amp is that it is more than a feature--packed Mjolnir. Think of a complete integrated amp, with special attention paid to the headphone output side, and yes, speaker binding posts. Same circlotron-style topology, but significantly different in execution for these power and current levels, and with a very different, relay-switched stepped attenuator volume control. Expect 50W into 8 ohms and *multiple levels of gain*, *with the intention of serving everything from IEMs to loudspeakers.* And yes, solid-state or hybrid will be available--but it'll be a one-time choice. There's no switching back and forth.


 
   
   
  I'm glad to hear this.  This is the part I was concerned about.   SS for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Flexible enough to drive Grados, Orthos and Audio Technicas


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I glad to hear this.  This is the part I was concerned about.   SS for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  And speakers!


----------



## Solude

Going to assume not class A to 50W... cause after getting the F3, not digging 2.5A of bias


----------



## purrin

I'm finding the Mjolnir makes a fine preamp between my CD player and power amp. Any plans for a "real" preamp (3 inputs, 2 outputs for those of us who wish to bi-amp, etc.)?


----------



## Defiant00

Even this detail-light update is excellent, thanks Jason!
   
  Hope everything goes well on the Statement DAC from now on, sounds like you've already had enough delays.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

paradoxper said:


> And speakers!




It's about time I gave my speakers some good schiit
It should make for a good desktop setup with my Gallo Stradas, which by the way are rocking with a Decware CSP & Densen B320.
For once I'd like to tell Jason to take his time and let my wallet recover from the pinnacle


----------



## Solude

My wife is also glad


----------



## nigeljames

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Since you at least deserve a statement with respect to the Statement products, here it is, in all its ugly glory:
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's nice to finally get an idea as to what to expect from the statement amps. Just one question.
   
  As it is more of an departure from the Mjolnir than originally expected can we expect the same character of sound as the Mjolnir or sound wise will it be totally different sounding.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Synergist969

Dear Mr. Stoddard:
   
      Thank you for your open and honest responses...it certainly does help me in my decision making process regarding one your Schiit amps...(if i cannot buy one of each...lol...),
   
       If at all possible, (understanding that the statement amp. will sigificantly depart from the Mjolnir in several design paramters), I would like to echo nigeljames' question...,
   
       In terms of basic sound quality, will this statement amp. differ significantly from the Mjolnir, or the ability to drive "difficult" headphones?  Also, due to the amplifier circuit architecture, will this amp also NOT have single ended headphone output capacity?  
   
      Thank you.
   
    Sincerely, 
    T.A. Kogstrom


----------



## Solude

Jason can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the nice thing about circlotron circuit is you can keep adding devices to up the power.


----------



## Defiant00

Pretty sure the statement will have SE headphone outputs.


----------



## Pidgeon

I personally hope the statement amp will sound better, or as good as a B22. In affirmative case, I would buy the statement amp even for 1750 $.
   
  That is what I imagine an "end-game" amp to be .
   
  In my opinion, a B22 is one of the reference amps (or possibly the reference solid state amp) currently existing.
   
  And I hope the statement will have balanced outputs, or eventually even single ended, too.


----------



## Solude

Given the Mjolnir already goes toe to toe with the B22 just with a different flavour... I can't see the Statement going backwards.  There is room in the B22 for improvement.  Which is not to say I don't like the B22, my 3rd is being built so clearly AMB got something right


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





pidgeon said:


> I personally hope the statement amp will sound better, or as good as a B22. In affirmative case, I would buy the statement amp even for 1750 $.
> 
> That is what I imagine an "end-game" amp to be .
> 
> ...


 
  "Statement" is usually quite a bit north of $1750.
  Just say'n


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> "Statement" is usually quite a bit north of $1750.
> Just say'n


 
  All details are subject to change and nothing solid as been quoted. However a loose statement had the statement gear
  at roughly double the balanced gear.
   
  But either way, nobody knows.


----------



## Pidgeon

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> "Statement" is usually quite a bit north of $1750.
> Just say'n


 
   
  I believe few months ago it has been said that the statement amp would have been sold for 1500 $, this is why I specified "even for 1750 $".
   
  Maybe they changed idea? I really don't know .


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





pidgeon said:


> I believe few months ago it has been said that the statement amp would have been sold for 1500 $, this is why I specified "even for 1750 $".
> 
> Maybe they changed idea? I really don't know .


 
  Here's a little factoid for ya.....
   
  I have no idea what I am talking about.


----------



## paradoxper

None of us do per speculation.


----------



## Iamnothim

I'd like to see the DAC and AMP have some type of control for automation.
   
  All my non can gear is in a closet. I use RedEye Pro
   
  Just a Contact Closure to toggle power, and yes I know I can buy a power strip with CC.


----------



## drumsnspace

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> None of us do per speculation.


 
  I was in the Schiit "HQ" yesterday to pick my Lyr & Bifrost and spoke to Alex the ops mgr for a good hour. I was told both the statement amp and dac would be under $2k. I'm already blanking on the figures he gave me, but they were under the 2 grand mark, of course I'm sure that's subject to change as development goes on.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





drumsnspace said:


> I was in the Schiit "HQ" yesterday to pick my Lyr & Bifrost and spoke to Alex the ops mgr for a good hour. I was told both the statement amp and dac would be under $2k. I'm already blanking on the figures he gave me, but they were under the 2 grand mark, of course I'm sure that's subject to change as development goes on.


 
  Glad you got to talk to Alex as he's a super nice dude. I'm also glad he gave a soft figure of under the $2k mark. With 2 products going end of life
  it really seems impossible to know what direction the Schiit team has had to take and how that would affect projected costs.
   
  All I know is I'm extremely excited to see how the DAC turns out. Oh, and yea, the amp, too.


----------



## Llloyd

looking forward to the statement DAC.  i'm in the market to pick something up under 2k within the next year


----------



## O8h7w

Oh Schiit.
   
  With that set of features, I'm having second guesses about my decision not to buy the statement amp but be "done" with Mjolnir and the statement DAC. Of course, I'm interested in how much of a difference in sound there will now be between the Mjolnir and statement amp. On that point, please Jason, enlighten us!


----------



## Lanks85

deleted post


----------



## pandastyle

YES! Now a proud owner of a Schiit Bifrost and Valhalla.  Just wish I didn't have to wait on the mailman, considering I could drive to their HQ in like 20 minutes...


----------



## Douger333

Without going into detail, I commend Schiit and Jason for highest ethics and customer service! But you probably already knew that....


----------



## Barry S

pandastyle said:


> YES! Now a proud owner of a Schiit Bifrost and Valhalla.  Just wish I didn't have to wait on the mailman, considering I could drive to their HQ in like 20 minutes...




Very nice--congratulations! What drove your choice between the Valhalla and the Lyr?


----------



## Iamnothim

Is there a device that has the same functionality as the Apple Airport Express or AppleTV, except the S/PDIF optical handles 24/96 ?
   
  EDIT: Audio use only


----------



## pandastyle

Quote: 





barry s said:


> Very nice--congratulations! What drove your choice between the Valhalla and the Lyr?


 
   $100 and the fact that I'm only going to be driving high ohm Beyers and, potentially, Sennheisers in the future.


----------



## Grevlin

I'm seriously considering a Magni/Modi combo as my first headphone DAC/Amp.
   
  I just like what I see about the company and I like how simple and solid the units look.
   
   
  Right now, my first (only) pair of headphones are AT ATH-M50's, and I'm sure the combo will sound great. I'm wondering how the Magni/Modi combo will do in the future when I buy some additional headphones.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Is there a device that has the same functionality as the Apple Airport Express or AppleTV, except the S/PDIF optical handles 24/96 ?
> 
> EDIT: Audio use only


 
  Depends by what you mean by functionality. There's the SBT.


----------



## Iamnothim

WiFi Box > S/PDIS Optical 24/96 > Bifrost > Lyr.
  Access my iTunes Library via WiFi.   "AirPlay"
   
  Right now I have to use my MacBook Pro to connect to the MacMini music server.
   
  I could replace the MacBook Pro with either an Airport Extreme or an AppleTv but they are only 16 bit 48kHz


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> WiFi Box > S/PDIS Optical 24/96 > Bifrost > Lyr.
> Access my iTunes Library via WiFi.   "AirPlay"
> 
> Right now I have to use my MacBook Pro to connect to the MacMini music server.
> ...


 
  I guess that all depends on how much 24/96 material you have. And again, there's the SBT which will play those sample rates.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Depends by what you mean by functionality. There's the SBT.


 
  Looks like Logitech doesn't make Squeezebox products any longer.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Looks like Logitech doesn't make Squeezebox products any longer.


 
  Ah, I forgot to mention that. Haha. End of life product. But you can still def pick 'em up.


----------



## Iamnothim

I've just been slammed for a big loss and I need some suggestions.
   
  Prolog:
  Mac Mini in a closet on a wired Net.  iTunes library on an external drive.  iTunes Library is shared. Files are played by Amarra.
  Works great on the room system.
   
  Remote Headphone system.  MacBook Pro > Bifrost optical > Lry.   MBP has iTunes local Library (small) Access to shared Library (large)  Amarra is the player.
  I "thought" everything was fine until I discovered that Amarra would only play (light up blue) for local content.  On the Shared Library iTunes is the player (lights up yellow)  Granted everything still plays, except the huge shared library is played by Amarra.
   
  I contacted Amarra.  Sorry a shared library is streaming music and we don't support streaming music.  Try going to iTunes pref's / advanced / and point the Library to the remote.  I could not get this to work.   I erased all the local iTunes content and library file.... (I emptied the trash)
   
  Choices / Suggestions?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I've just been slammed for a big loss and I need some suggestions.
> 
> Prolog:
> Mac Mini in a closet on a wired Net.  iTunes library on an external drive.  iTunes Library is shared. Files are played by Amarra.
> ...


 
  Yep. Amarra has no support for streaming. Have you thought about just switching
  to Pure Music. They do support streaming, I believe.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yep. Amarra has no support for streaming. Have you thought about just switching
> to Pure Music. They do support streaming, I believe.


 
  I tried Pure Music and din't like the sound.
  It has a ton on bells & whistles, meters, etc.  But it came across as harsh.
  This was pretty much straight away.
   
  I just finished reading "Bit Perfect".... again.  Have you tried them?
   
  Listing to iTunes streamed does not sound "bad" it's just doesn't have the buttery smoothness of Amarra.
  And I thought I was done with this .....   Just purchased a second copy of Amarra a week ago.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I tried Pure Music and din't like the sound.
> It has a ton on bells & whistles, meters, etc.  But it came across as harsh.
> This was pretty much straight away.
> 
> ...


 
  I've tried all players..I think. 
   
  Amarra does have the best sound. But I actually really enjoy Bitperfect.
  It's seamless and fuss free.
   
  And I agree about PM, there was a very digital sound to it I didn't enjoy.
   
   
  Can't blame Amarra about not supporting streaming though. It's clearly documented in the PDF.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I've tried all players..I think.
> 
> Amarra does have the best sound. But I actually really enjoy Bitperfect.
> It's seamless and fuss free.
> ...


 
  You RTFM?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> You RTFM?


 
  Haha! Uh, no! Yes, I did.


----------



## Iamnothim

dox,
   
  Thanks for your opinion of PM......I always think, "Is it just me that hears that?"


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Haha! Uh, no! Yes, I did.


 
   I did too.
   
  I just didn't connect the dots with streaming & sharing.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> dox,
> 
> Thanks for your opinion of PM......I always think, "Is it just me that hears that?"


 
  No problem. 
   
  I don't know if you're aware or have posted, etc. Alternatives to Itunes.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> No problem.
> 
> I don't know if you're aware or have posted, etc. Alternatives to Itunes.


 
  Thanks.
  Tried "Fidelia"  Looked very promising.  The music sounded like it was neutered. 
   
  Bit Perfect isn't bad.
   
  Add to that the fact that I missed the UPS man and my LCD2's are still on the truck.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks.
> Tried "Fidelia"  Looked very promising.  The music sounded like it was neutered.
> 
> Bit Perfect isn't bad.
> ...


 
  What do you mean by neutered? Haha.
   
  Stop dickin' around on Head-Fi and listen for the man in brown!


----------



## Iamnothim

paradoxper said:


> What do you mean by neutered? Haha.
> 
> Stop dickin' around on Head-Fi and listen for the man in brown!




Fidelia removed all the .. Personality and turned it to mush. Warm, but still mush. Amazing.
I tried several tracks.... Thought oh this is pleasant. Went back to basic iTunes and. "wait a minute, where did all this go?"

It really looked promising, but that's my impression.

I set me a UPS bear trap this evening. Let's see if I can snag some a them Audezezes


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Fidelia removed all the .. Personality and turned it to mush. Warm, but still mush. Amazing.
> I tried several tracks.... Thought oh this is pleasant. Went back to basic iTunes and. "wait a minute, where did all this go?"
> 
> It really looked promising, but that's my impression.
> ...


 
  It's been a while since I've fussed with Fidelia. Though I know it didn't impress me.
   
  Do you think Bitperfect colors the sound? There's something about it that I feel sounds a tad bit better than Itunes.
  I just don't think it has anything behind it to change things.
   
  It's gonna be hard, it's either Amarra or nothin'. So trick yourself into liking something else better. 
   
   
  Skin 'em alive!!!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> It's been a while since I've fussed with Fidelia. Though I know it didn't impress me.
> 
> Do you think Bitperfect colors the sound? There's something about it that I feel sounds a tad bit better than Itunes.
> I just don't think it has anything behind it to change things.
> ...


 
  Dox.
   
  Nailed it again.
  I have no choice.  Amarra will not work remote and I can't have a terra byte worth of songs replicated all over the place.
  Amarra works for the room system.
  Remote / headphones  looks like iTunes w or w/o Bit Perfect.
   
  Then there's Audionirvana Plus.....


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Dox.
> 
> Nailed it again.
> I have no choice.  Amarra will not work remote and I can't have a terra byte worth of songs replicated all over the place.
> ...


 
  Ah yes, Audirvana Plus. More disappointment waitin' on down the pipeline.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Ah yes, Audirvana Plus. More disappointment waitin' on down the pipeline.


 
  Thank you for saving 2 hours of my life.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thank you for saving 2 hours of my life.


 
  Haha. No really, Audirvana Plus would be my 2nd choice, if Amarra were out of the question.


----------



## dcfis

I've been out of headphones for a while and all the new audio players is new to me. Does anyone stream via Sonos? On my home rig it sure bested some very nice cd players and digital players. 

I read about ammara being great but not streaming. Am I right that this means a direct connection to a computer would have to be made? so on the go a iPod is out of the question right? what are they using for that? 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kkcsm

Quote: 





dcfis said:


> I've been out of headphones for a while and all the new audio players is new to me. Does anyone stream via Sonos? On my home rig it sure bested some very nice cd players and digital players.


 
   
  I'm streaming from a Sonos ZP80 through a Schiit Lyr.  Works fine, sounds great... although I don't really have anything to compare it to.  I moved this from my home system because the Bifrost is on backorder and I wanted *something* to feed the Lyr.


----------



## gmahler2u

Fidelia, first it sounds promising however, the updates are horrible.  Program itself not recommendable.
  Now i tried bitperfect, not impressive.  Amarra Hifi. recommandable.


----------



## dcfis

kkcsm said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



agree, the zps especially into a dac is an excellent source. now just need to figure our the portable rig
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Fidelia, first it sounds promising however, the updates are horrible.  Program itself not recommendable.
> Now i tried bitperfect, not impressive.  Amarra Hifi. recommandable.


 
  Except you can't stream to Amarra


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Except you can't stream to Amarra


 

 Yeah...right now exploring another possibility. it's never end.


----------



## paradoxper

Poor guys.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Yeah...right now exploring another possibility. it's never end.


 
  I own a Full Amarra License, a HiFi Amarra License, and an, upgrade from HiFi to Full Amarra license.
  I somehow did not equate :shared library" with "streaming" and frankly don't recall seeing either as a limitation in documentation.  I missed it.
   
  One full license works fine because the library is used by audio equipment locally.  I can't use the others at all.
  I have asked for a refund.
   
  I purchased HiFi Nov 21 and the Upgrade January 4th.
  Waiting to see what they say.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I own a Full Amarra License, a HiFi Amarra License, and an, upgrade from HiFi to Full Amarra license.
> I somehow did not equate :shared library" with "streaming" and frankly don't recall seeing either as a limitation in documentation.  I missed it.
> 
> One full license works fine because the library is used by audio equipment locally.  I can't use the others at all.
> ...


 

 Yes, near future I should upgrade to full version of Amarra.


----------



## kkcsm

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I own a Full Amarra License, a HiFi Amarra License, and an, upgrade from HiFi to Full Amarra license.
> I somehow did not equate :shared library" with "streaming" and frankly don't recall seeing either as a limitation in documentation.  I missed it.
> 
> One full license works fine because the library is used by audio equipment locally.  I can't use the others at all.
> ...


 
   
  Rather than using an iTunes Shared Library, have you tried mounting the remote machine's Music folder on the local machine and bypassing itunes completely?  That should be equivilent to mounting a drive from a NAS.
   
  Amarra runs stand-alone doesn't it?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kkcsm said:


> Rather than using an iTunes Shared Library, have you tried mounting the remote machine's Music folder on the local machine and bypassing itunes completely?  That should be equivilent to mounting a drive from a NAS.
> 
> Amarra runs stand-alone doesn't it


 
   
  Ya know.... I was just thinking about that.
  Great suggestion.  Plus if I use a large buffer it should overcome any delay.  Maybe?
   
  Amarra runs fine from a local iTunes library.


----------



## Grevlin

I see the matched combos on the Schitt site.
   
  Question - could I use a Modi with as Asgard?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

You can, here is an impression where the author mixed and matched the two combos http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard


----------



## Grevlin

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> You can, here is an impression where the author mixed and matched the two combos http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard


 
   
  Perfect - exactly what I was looking for.
   
  Sounds like the Magni/Modi will get the job done for me. Can't find any significant reason to get the larger cousins. (For my use)
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kkcsm said:


> Rather than using an iTunes Shared Library, have you tried mounting the remote machine's Music folder on the local machine and bypassing itunes completely?  That should be equivilent to mounting a drive from a NAS.
> 
> Amarra runs stand-alone doesn't it?


 
  FAIL
  iTunes hangs while trying to add content on a NAS type drive over my network to the iTunes library.
  iTunes will not use a library location that is remote.


----------



## Pappas3278

Quote: 





ambertx said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm having a odd issue with my shiny new Valhalla. Intermittently the right channel would just cut out, I have experimented with different sources, cables and headphones and the issue is definitely with the amp. However when the right channel is dead if I turn the amp off the right channel would come back (residual power?) on then I can turn the amp on and both channels would stay working. Has anyone else experienced this issue? I'm thinking it may be caused by faulty tubes.


 

 Hi.  New to the party.  Found this thread because I'm experiencing this same issue, but with my Asgard.
   
  I'll be listening with both channels firing, and then, BAM, left channel drops out mid song.  I can get it back by unplugging/plugging the headphone cord, but I've found that sometimes I have to power it off/on again. 
   
  I've been in touch with Jason Stoddard via email.  I still have some more isolation to nail down to make sure that it's the Asgard and not my sources or preamp.  But I can say, almost with out doubt, that the problem lies with the Asgard.  Perhaps it was damaged during shipping.  Who knows.  It's a great amp when it's working.  I just don't want to deal with a faulty unit.
   
  -Mike


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kkcsm said:


> Rather than using an iTunes Shared Library, have you tried mounting the remote machine's Music folder on the local machine and bypassing itunes completely?  That should be equivilent to mounting a drive from a NAS.
> 
> Amarra runs stand-alone doesn't it?


 
  Got it working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Local Library file pointing to the remote volume.
  It's going to take some time to import the pointers.
   
  Many thanks


----------



## pandastyle

Got my Valhalla in the mail today.  Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet since the mailman came as I was getting ready for work, but the instruction manual definitely made me laugh.  The bit about troubleshooting if it won't turn on was gold.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





pandastyle said:


> Got my Valhalla in the mail today.  Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet since the mailman came as I was getting ready for work, but the instruction manual definitely made me laugh.  The bit about troubleshooting if it won't turn on was gold.


 
   
  Enjoy it!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





pandastyle said:


> Got my Valhalla in the mail today.  Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet since the mailman came as I was getting ready for work, but the instruction manual definitely made me laugh.  The bit about troubleshooting if it won't turn on was gold.


 






enjoy! like me


----------



## pandastyle

Just got home and installed the tubes, plugged her in and I am completely amazed.  I've never had a speaker amp and I've been listening to these Beyers without a headphone amp for a while now.  I honestly don't think I've ever heard music sound this good and I have a $1000+ turntable hooked up to a marantz integrated amp with B&W speakers as my normal system.  I am a changed man.  Headphones > *.


----------



## kolzo

Quote: 





kolzo said:


> I visited a friend today to test whether the humming is present there. There were no changes. But we noticed that it made almost no difference whether the left RCA cable was connected to the Asgard or not. I had to put volume quite loud to hear a tiny sound from the left side through the humming.
> 
> So. The humming is on the left side even when no RCA is connected. When connected, a very low volume for the left side and perfectly normal on the right side. It just seems that the stuff that deals with the left channel on Asgard is dead. It can get only a tiny amount of volume like there is a minimal contact with whatever connects it to the left RCA slot.
> 
> Also when the headphone is connected half way to the Asgard, both sides get the right sides' sound. I don't know if this means anything.


 
  Returned the Asgard and got a replacement. Works perfect. Great service. So much listening ahead


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

would there be a noticeable difference between magi+modi vs a lyr+byfrost when using a he-500 cans?
   
  I am going to be connect it to my computer via USB


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> would there be a noticeable difference between magi+modi vs a lyr+byfrost when using a he-500 cans?
> 
> I am going to be connect it to my computer via USB


 

 there will be a noticeable difference. First off, the Bifrost is a better DAC, it utilizes a better chip than the Modi, I guess youll be getting slightly more detail with it and you can also play 24/192 high resolution files, while the Modi goes only up to 24/96. Apparently the Magni handles the HE-500 easy, cos its a beastly little amp. Also, the He-500s are slightly easier orthos to drive, but they are still... well.. orthos. However, I doubt you will get the same quality and headroom the Lyr will give you. 

 Now, i have not heard the Magin and Modi, but this is my fair guess. 

 .............................................

 Oh i cant wait for the Statement gear! I decided to pass on the Balanced stuff, just so I can get the Statement.


----------



## Iamnothim

I don't know if it's Elves, Dwarfs, or Faries.....
Schiit needs to hire more of them so I can get my Gungnir.


----------



## Barry S

iamnothim said:


> I don't know if it's Elves, Dwarfs, or Faries.....
> Schiit needs to hire more of them so I can get my Gungnir.


----------



## Iamnothim

barry s said:


>




That explains everything.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

I am *not* Gene Wilder. 
   
  On a happier note, Gungnir shipping resumed today.


----------



## Iamnothim

jason stoddard said:


> I am *not* Gene Wilder.
> 
> On a happier note, Gungnir shipping resumed today.




But we still get free chocolate bars. Right?


----------



## alexcs

I thought I would contribute to this thread as Ive been using a Singlepower MPX3 Slam for the past 6 or so years happily but have just taken possession of a Mjolnir and noticed there were not really any comparisons on Headfi.
   
  Ive only had it for a day or so however its already blowing me away with the LCD-2's. The detail and staging compared to the MPX3 is obvious, I hesitate to say much more at the moment however these cans are clearly receiving enough power to show how good they are. I'm using a DA100 currently which seems perfectly adequate however I think the Gunghir isn't too far away based on this amp. I had been quietly disappointed with the centre staging of the LCD2's with the MPX3, the Mjolnir really brings it all front and centre. Gorgeous. also the vertical has opened up well, I felt like the sound was along a flat wide line before.
   
  Anyway this is really for anyone using LCD-2's on an OTL tube amp who is interested in the Mjolnir, hope its helpful. I'm sure the sound will change as time goes on.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> But we still get free chocolate bars. Right?


 
   
   I want my Golden Ticket...


----------



## Barry S

alexcs said:


> I thought I would contribute to this thread as Ive been using a Singlepower MPX3 Slam for the past 6 or so years happily but have just taken possession of a Mjolnir and noticed there were not really any comparisons on Headfi.
> 
> Ive only had it for a day or so however its already blowing me away with the LCD-2's. The detail and staging compared to the MPX3 is obvious, I hesitate to say much more at the moment however these cans are clearly receiving enough power to show how good they are. I'm using a DA100 currently which seems perfectly adequate however I think the Gunghir isn't too far away based on this amp. I had been quietly disappointed with the centre staging of the LCD2's with the MPX3, the Mjolnir really brings it all front and centre. Gorgeous. also the vertical has opened up well, I felt like the sound was along a flat wide line before.
> 
> Anyway this is really for anyone using LCD-2's on an OTL tube amp who is interested in the Mjolnir, hope its helpful. I'm sure the sound will change as time goes on.




Congrats on the Mjolnir. It's amazing on how much it opens up the LCD-2, isn't it? I've never heard the DA100, but the Gungnir is perfectly matched to the Mjolnir and the resolution and transparency is impressive. I feel like the M+G were made for the LCD-2 because the synergy is so good.


----------



## defguy

Another new Schiit head here! Just got my Magni yesterday. I've been using my HD 600's unamped for 8 or 9 years, boy was I dumb


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats!  Schiit loves Senns.
  Quote: 





defguy said:


> Another new Schiit head here! Just got my Magni yesterday. I've been using my HD 600's unamped for 8 or 9 years, boy was I dumb


----------



## dgvoyles

I am looking at buying the Asgard and Senn 600, I want to pair them with a good CD player. I'm leaning towards the Cambridge Audio Azur 351C. I listen mostly to Classic chamber music, small combo jazz (1950's cool jazz) and female vocals with small ensemble backing. Anyone with comments with this combination for this music. Thanks


----------



## Maxvla

Unless space is an issue, I would recommend using any CD player with digital output as a transport and picking up a Bifrost or Modi to be the DAC. The Cambridge players have aging DACs that aren't really up to modern standards anymore. You can find 'transport-only' players like my Rotel RDD-980 that feature a quality mechanism that are up there in years, but still functioning perfectly for not a lot of money. I paid $150 for mine on Audiogon and it works as good as new.


----------



## Solude

Cambridge and Schiit use DACs from 2008.  If one is aging so is the other   At that price point separating the transport and dac makes no sense unless your PC is the transport.  The suggestion of used is good though.  A used CDP in the Cambridge range will buy more digital goodness.


----------



## jontron

Took some pictures of the gear the other day. I'll get another picture with everything together one of these days!


----------



## bearFNF

Add me to the Schiit pile of owners here.
   
  Have a Magni
  Modi should be here with the Pyst cables Middle of this week.
  My Asgard is on back order put should be here Feb 6th??
  Debating whether I should get the Bifrost for the Asgard in the Living room (for the optical/SPDIF)...
   
  Any one here using Modi or other USB Schiit Dac with an andriod tablet?  Not sure if it works.  I will be trying it out to see if it does. (Asus Tranformer Infinity with or without dock).


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





jontron said:


> Took some pictures of the gear the other day. I'll get another picture with everything together one of these days!


 
   
  Nicely done.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## swmtnbiker

Beautiful shot man!!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Beautiful shot man!!


 
  Thanks.
  I'm an unrepentant showoff.  In fact I may have already posted that image here.
   
  I liked jontron's selective focus in soft B&W.  Very mellow.
   
  I love photography.
http://adufus.com


----------



## markm1

I'm shopping for my 1st amp and am thinking about the Asgard. Was toying with the Fiio 17 and Little Dot 1+ for my new Grado cans. But, after all the fanfare of Schiit and the stunning reviews, I'm willing to spend the extra what-100 bucks or so if it's that good for my 1st amp and get something that clearly has quality. Am I crazy?


----------



## jontron

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Nicely done.


 
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks.
> I'm an unrepentant showoff.  In fact I may have already posted that image here.
> 
> I liked jontron's selective focus in soft B&W.  Very mellow.
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks for the kind words, gents


----------



## hodgjy

While this is not the exact comparison you're looking for, I have both the Asgard and the Fiio E11. The Asgard is noticeably better. More meat on the bones, more fluid, and bigger soundstage. Also, I am quite happy with my little Fiio, but the Asgard is just better.



markm1 said:


> I'm shopping for my 1st amp and am thinking about the Asgard. Was toying with the Fiio 17 and Little Dot 1+ for my new Grado cans. But, after all the fanfare of Schiit and the stunning reviews, I'm willing to spend the extra what-100 bucks or so if it's that good for my 1st amp and get something that clearly has quality. Am I crazy?


----------



## olddtfan

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I'm shopping for my 1st amp and am thinking about the Asgard. Was toying with the Fiio 17 and Little Dot 1+ for my new Grado cans. But, after all the fanfare of Schiit and the stunning reviews, I'm willing to spend the extra what-100 bucks or so if it's that good for my 1st amp and get something that clearly has quality. Am I crazy?


 
  Nope I own one  and have never regretted buying it.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I'm shopping for my 1st amp and am thinking about the Asgard. Was toying with the Fiio 17 and Little Dot 1+ for my new Grado cans. But, after all the fanfare of Schiit and the stunning reviews, I'm willing to spend the extra what-100 bucks or so if it's that good for my 1st amp and get something that clearly has quality. Am I crazy?


 
Reviews from owners and product review blogs, for Schiit products...amplifiers, from the Magni, Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr, Mjolnir are very good.  There are various dedicated Schiit product threads with lots of Head-Fiers posting on them.  Very few folks have made negative comments that I have seen.
  
 There is a lot of brand loyalty.   Jason Stoddard, one of the founding partners has personally answer my emails and those from other Head-Fiers.  In fact, if you fill out the question form on the Schiit web site, chances are he will be the one to respond.  (His answers are direct and brief… few words) 
  
 Jason reads the threads, post when necessary and goes to great lengths to support and inform Schiit customers and prospective customers.  A lot has been written about how great Schiit customer service is.
  
 I have a Lyr and I love it.  From what I've read about the Asgard, I think you will enjoy it very much.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> While this is not the exact comparison you're looking for, I have both the Asgard and the Fiio E11. The Asgard is noticeably better. More meat on the bones, more fluid, and bigger soundstage. Also, I am quite happy with my little Fiio, but the Asgard is just better.


 
  No, that's actually interesting and helpful.
   
  So, yeah-I'm a total newbie-it's my 1st amp and I'm going to get one, try it for a while and then see if I want a second (the two choices being a dedicated desk amp vs a portable). Since I listen to both my Ipod while doing things in the house and in a computer room with fixed audio-I can see eventually one would want both. I'm guessing this is similar for a lot of people.
   
  So, I could go with either. Question is which one will be most practical initially......
  I'm thinking I'll get the designated amp first w/ arguably better sound. OTH-the Fiio stuff has some real plus sides-mobility, DAC option with the 17 and so on. So, I thought I'd solicit some feedback from the voice (es) of experience 
   
  Much Apprec-Mark


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Hey fellow Schiit owners,
   
  Just wondering in Head-Fi, do we have a dedicated thread for the Bifrost? I've searched for it but have found nothing.
   
  Thanks..


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





absolutezero said:


> Hey fellow Schiit owners,
> 
> Just wondering in Head-Fi, do we have a dedicated thread for the Bifrost? I've searched for it but have found nothing.
> 
> Thanks..


 
  Not dedicated exactly.
   
  There's this. Which is DEAD.


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Not dedicated exactly.
> 
> There's this. Which is DEAD.


 
   
  Aw shucks... Was looking forward to buying it so it can stack proportionally with the Asgard (although there is a chance I'll just buy an ODAC).
  Already read reviews but still need more user impressions. Thanks for providing the thread even though its dead, I'll just read impressions from there.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





absolutezero said:


> Aw shucks... Was looking forward to buying it so it can stack proportionally with the Asgard (although there is a chance I'll just buy an ODAC).
> Already read reviews but still need more user impressions. Thanks for providing the thread even though its dead, I'll just read impressions from there.


 
   
  For some reason it seems like Bifrost discussion just wanders around between the various Schiit threads.
   
  If it helps any I like mine a lot with the Asgard, and part of that is because of how nicely they stack


----------



## Jimmyjo

Quote: 





defguy said:


> Another new Schiit head here! Just got my Magni yesterday. I've been using my HD 600's unamped for 8 or 9 years, boy was I dumb


 
  Got my Magna about a month ago. I.m hearing my AKG K340 electostatics for the first time in 25 years. Now thats dumber than dumb.The little guy even found some nice bass that was always missing. Of my five headphones I can't seem to put down the AKGs now with the Magna.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> While this is not the exact comparison you're looking for, I have both the Asgard and the Fiio E11. The Asgard is noticeably better. More meat on the bones, more fluid, and bigger soundstage. Also, I am quite happy with my little Fiio, but the Asgard is just better.


 
  RE: filo products. Do you find that you listen to your E11 straped to a mobile phone or Ipod?
   
  If I get the Schiit (I just love how that sounds)-and want to think about a DAC, I might go w/ a E17 for mobility and the DAC ability. Do you think there is an advantage to having a designated DAC vs something like an E17 that kills multiple birds w/ one stone?


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Reviews from owners and product review blogs, for Schiit products...amplifiers, from the Magni, Asgard, Valhalla, Lyr, Mjolnir are very good.  There are various dedicated Schiit product threads with lots of Head-Fiers posting on them.  Very few folks have made negative comments that I have seen.
> 
> There is a lot of brand loyalty.   Jason Stoddard, one of the founding partners has personally answer my emails and those from other Head-Fiers.  In fact, if you fill out the question form on the Schiit web site, chances are he will be the one to respond.  (His answers are direct and brief… few words)
> 
> ...


 
  Cool. That's my sense as well. Thx.


----------



## merkil

defiant00 said:


> For some reason it seems like Bifrost discussion just wanders around between the various Schiit threads.
> 
> If it helps any I like mine a lot with the Asgard, and part of that is because of how nicely they stack




I think I remember reading somewhere that Jason said that him and his audiophile club had a dac shootout when he first was building the bifrost. Everyone brought their dacs and they all voted on which everyone preferred and the bifrost ended up winning, beating out everything including very expensive dacs. I also remember him saying this was before he had the gungnir developed. 

I hope I got this right. I can't seem to find a link, but if Jason sees this maybe he can correct me.

Edit: or I've just made up this whole scenario in my head lol either way I hope somebuddy confirms or corrects me.


----------



## Solude

Jason is the analog guy, Mike is the digital guy.  Might find it if you look for Mike Moffat


----------



## giedrys

What are they working on next? DSD DAC/Amp combo would be nice.


----------



## hodgjy

I use it strapped to my iPod Classic.  Great combo. 
   
  Quote: 





markm1 said:


> RE: filo products. Do you find that you listen to your E11 straped to a mobile phone or Ipod?
> 
> If I get the Schiit (I just love how that sounds)-and want to think about a DAC, I might go w/ a E17 for mobility and the DAC ability. Do you think there is an advantage to having a designated DAC vs something like an E17 that kills multiple birds w/ one stone?


----------



## Sniperbombers

im happy to say that i'll soon be someone who'll be a part of this schiit owners club  definitely looking forward to the anticipations of the lyr + bitfrost combination. I hope it lives up to my expectations just as it did with everybody else.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





merkil said:


> I think I remember reading somewhere that Jason said that him and his audiophile club had a dac shootout when he first was building the bifrost. Everyone brought their dacs and they all voted on which everyone preferred and the bifrost ended up winning, beating out everything including very expensive dacs. I also remember him saying this was before he had the gungnir developed.


 
  Correct. I'll try to recall where this was said. I believe it was the Gungnir thread.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Just wondering, what program do you guys use for listening to music? Foobar? Winamp? VLC?
   
  Also, do you guys use on Windows 7,  ASIO or just the windows  sound codec?


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> If I get the Schiit (I just love how that sounds)-and want to think about a DAC, I might go w/ a E17 for mobility and the DAC ability. Do you think there is an advantage to having a designated DAC vs something like an E17 that kills multiple birds w/ one stone?


 
   
  Hi, for what it's worth, I've been using the E17 with 3 different rigs - a Schitt Valhalla amp, a Woo WA6-SE amp, and occasionally mobile paired with an iPod Touch. While I'd _like_ to have a dedicated DAC with each component ... eventually ... in the meantime while I "shop around" and research DACs, the E17 has worked perfectly* well for me (multiple birds w/one stone).
   
  * full disclosure: I'm in the process of returning the E17 (for a replacement under warranty) because the 1/8" Aux Input jack is "intermittent" -- exactly the thing which having a "dedicated" setup would prevent (eliminating daily, multiple daily cord-changes, pocket-use, etc. wearing out the jack).
   
  I simply love the _features_ of the E17. (the reason I don't have a Bifrost under the Valhalla ... it's been a case of "if it ain't broke ... ")  
   
  So to directly answer your last question: There _may_ be a reason that having dedicated DACs is advantageous (like, the jacks wont wear out) ... but you can also see by my example that one can get by happily using the "portable" (E17) with multiple rigs -- (I take responsibility for the jack intermittence, as it's fallen many times onto a carpeted floor with cords in, etc. and been in a few pocket situations.)
   
  Hope that helps a little bit.


----------



## paradoxper

I was VERY wrong. Haha.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Hi, for what it's worth, I've been using the E17 with 3 different rigs - a Schitt Valhalla amp, a Woo WA6-SE amp, and occasionally mobile paired with an iPod Touch. While I'd _like_ to have a dedicated DAC with each component ... eventually ... in the meantime while I "shop around" and research DACs, the E17 has worked perfectly* well for me (multiple birds w/one stone).
> 
> * full disclosure: I'm in the process of returning the E17 (for a replacement under warranty) because the 1/8" Aux Input jack is "intermittent" -- exactly the thing which having a "dedicated" setup would prevent (eliminating daily, multiple daily cord-changes, pocket-use, etc. wearing out the jack).
> 
> ...


 
  OK,
  Since we are talking about this little E17 widget my interest was peaked as to the mobile aspect.  I RTFM and saw where the diagrams for  Optical/COAX S/PDIF and USB only apply to tethered applications.. A Laptop, A Dock, A DVD Player.  When the diagram showed an iPhone / iPod  it said "Aux".
   
http://www.fiio.com.cn/UploadFiles/main/Images/2012/12/20121210151457.pdf
   
  Correct me here people.  "Aux" is not a DAC interface, so my assumption is that in mobile iAnything mode the E17 is only an AMP.
  Am I wrong?  I don't do Android.  Do their devices have optical S/PDIF out?
   
  I think it would be a cool device if you could clock an iPhone 96kHz  but I can't see where that can happens.  If that's true I can't see it's value in an E17 tethered system.  I'd get the basic  Fiio portable amp only for out and about.  And something like a Magni/Modi for the tethered setup.  That would be a go value startup kit.


----------



## merkil

paradoxper said:


> I was VERY wrong. Haha.




Thanks! I knew I had read that. Although I thought it was the Santa Monica Audiophile club for some reason lol


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Just wondering, what program do you guys use for listening to music? Foobar? Winamp? VLC?
   
  Also, do you guys use on Windows 7,  ASIO or just the windows  sound codec?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> What are they working on next? DSD DAC/Amp combo would be nice.


 
   
  The statement gear, which there have been a few posts about recently.
   
  Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what program do you guys use for listening to music? Foobar? Winamp? VLC?
> 
> Also, do you guys use on Windows 7,  ASIO or just the windows  sound codec?


 
   
  foobar2000 through default Windows 7 primary sound driver in 24 bit mode for me.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what program do you guys use for listening to music? Foobar? Winamp? VLC?
> 
> Also, do you guys use on Windows 7,  ASIO or just the windows  sound codec?


 

 Foobar2000 wasapi


----------



## hodgjy

There have been numerous double blind tests, and no one taking them could tell apart WASAPI and the Windows mixer.  Don't worry so much about it.  Plus, if you use iTunes, you no longer have control over it and can't get to WASAPI.
   
  Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Also, do you guys use on Windows 7,  ASIO or just the windows  sound codec?


----------



## Solude

JRiver, WASAPI-Event Style... NON EXCLUSIVE because a lot of my listening is during other things   For reviews and A/B I go exclusive but otherwise, don't care enough.


----------



## dcfis

anyone put a schiit stack up against the dac1?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

When using WASAPI should the bit rate be set to 16/24/32? Most of my music is from CD's. Also should I use Push or Event mode?


----------



## Defiant00

oicwutudidthar said:


> When using WASAPI should the bit rate be set to 16/24/32? Most of my music is from CD's. Also should I use Push or Event mode?




No reason not to use 24 bit (Schiit DACs don't do 32), CDs are 16 but sending them as 24 doesn't do anything to the data, just pads it with extra empty bits.

Don't know about the different modes though, sorry.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> No reason not to use 24 bit (Schiit DACs don't do 32), CDs are 16 but sending them as 24 doesn't do anything to the data, just pads it with extra empty bits.
> 
> Don't know about the different modes though, sorry.


 
  While you may not hear a difference, the computer padding the extra bits can result in some quality loss. Ideally you want to match the bitrate of your source files, otherwise you are not playing 'bit perfect'.


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> For some reason it seems like Bifrost discussion just wanders around between the various Schiit threads.
> 
> If it helps any I like mine a lot with the Asgard, and part of that is because of how nicely they stack


 
   
  Thanks for the input. Any Schiit stack (M&M, Asgard/Lyr/Valhalla & Bifrost, Mjollnir&Gungnir) is really pleasant to look. They are really clean looking.
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Correct. I'll try to recall where this was said. I believe it was the Gungnir thread.


 
   
  Yes, I actually have read about the blind test. That really raised my interest in Bifrost in a huge way for their price.


----------



## aqsw

Hey guys,
  Thinking of selling my lyr/bifrost.
  I am looking for a balanced system, and the statement amp is really peaking my interest.[hybrid and speaker outs) I think.
  I am wondering if the Gungnir would be good with this amp. I know that they are not out yet, but the gungnir is so good that I don't feel it would make that much of a dif.
   
  Thanks


----------



## winenerd

Well new member of the club here, just got my Asgard. Liking it a lot so far with my HD545's, but sadly my source isn't up to snuff yet. Hopefully in the next few days I'll upgrade though. Should have some Q701's here tomorrow too, they seem to have mixed reactions with the Asgard, but I'll go in with an open mind.


----------



## NZheadcase

winenerd said:


> Well new member of the club here, just got my Asgard. Liking it a lot so far with my HD545's, but sadly my source isn't up to snuff yet. Hopefully in the next few days I'll upgrade though. Should have some Q701's here tomorrow too, they seem to have mixed reactions with the Asgard, but I'll go in with an open mind.




Congrats and enjoy the music.


----------



## Iamnothim

Just looked at the Schiit web site and it says they are shipping Gungnir's again.
I broke form and changed my order to have USB and 2nd day from Audio Advisor. 

Oh baby


----------



## Maxvla

aqsw said:


> Hey guys,
> Thinking of selling my lyr/bifrost.
> I am looking for a balanced system, and the statement amp is really peaking my interest.[hybrid and speaker outs) I think.
> I am wondering if the Gungnir would be good with this amp. I know that they are not out yet, but the gungnir is so good that I don't feel it would make that much of a dif.
> ...



Statement stuff is delayed til summer. Up to you what to do til then, but if you have no DAC atm, Gungnir is the best DAC I've heard with any personal time and you might be able to find a used one for a bit less.


----------



## winenerd

Quote: 





nzheadcase said:


> Congrats and enjoy the music.


 
  Thanks! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Been listening for about three straight hours, not too shabby at all. Now I'm just debating between a Xonar and Modi.


----------



## Iamnothim

maxvla said:


> Statement stuff is delayed til summer. Up to you what to do til then, but if you have no amp atm, Gungnir is one of the best values around for balanced amps. If you prefer tube and are using high impedance headphones, a similarly priced amp is the Little Dot MKVI+. It was a great amp that looks nice as well.




Gungnir is a DAC


----------



## Maxvla

Oh duh. Getting them confused since I'm reading HF and doing something else at the same time. Edited...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Oh duh. Getting them confused since I'm reading HF and doing something else at the same time. Edited...


 
  I didn't want to say anything..........
  cuz I want to keep it mello.
   
  That's why I put in my disclaimer.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> While you may not hear a difference, the computer padding the extra bits can result in some quality loss. Ideally you want to match the bitrate of your source files, otherwise you are not playing 'bit perfect'.


 
   
  Not really. For sample rate this is true, but for bit rate it isn't.
   
  Briefly, data in blue, extra bits in red.
1110110010100001                      Let's say this is our 16 bit sample.
111011001010000100000000        If we have the computer set to 24 bit mode it does this instead, just tacks on 8 extra zeroes. The leading 16 bits are exactly the same data.
   
   
  Technically, yes, those extra bits are not part of the original file. But the full sample is being sent (with padding), so you are not losing any data or quality. There's no fancy processing being done, it's just putting eight zeroes at the end of each sample. And since they're the least significant bits it just indicates that there's no data beyond that point, same as natively sending 16 bit samples.


----------



## Grisjean

Hello!
   
  Newbie joining in. Just finished reading this whole thread (long one!).
   
  I'm hoping to be owner of B&A combo soon. I was ordering them from Schiit directly, but remembered the VAT, that would be added to package. So, instead ordered them from european reseller from France. It just feels that delivery is taking ages! I ordered them on 7.1. and still no word from frenchmen that they would be on their way to Finland. I even contacted them few days ago, but haven't heard anything back.
  I just recently bought HD 650 and I don't have any amp to power them. Even my untrained ears can "hear" that they don't sound nowhere near their capacity when driven directly from my Galaxy S2 or computer. This is a long wait.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





grisjean said:


> Hello!
> 
> Newbie joining in. Just finished reading this whole thread (long one!).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congrats on your order, it's a great combo! Not ideal that it's taking that long but when you get them I'm sure it'll be worth it!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





grisjean said:


> Hello!
> 
> Newbie joining in. Just finished reading this whole thread (long one!).
> 
> ...


 
  7.1 ?
  We're talking July 1, 2012 ?
   
  Far, far too long.  Something is not right.
  In the US, typically, resellers do no charge your card until the day the product ships.
  I do not know anything about Europe.  Perhaps they are a non-stocking dealer and wants the funds up front before ordering.
   
  If it were me,  I would look for another dealer that has the gear in stock and order through them.
  I hope your card has not been charged.
   
  All-the-best.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Anyone get shipping info on their gungnir last few days? And if you did, when abouts did you order it? Thanks ddod


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> 7.1 ?
> We're talking July 1, 2012 ?
> 
> Far, far too long.  Something is not right.
> ...


 
   
  Or January 7th 2013, which I hope is the correct date.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Or January 7th 2013, which I hope is the correct date.


 
  I'm a stupid American.
   
  You're probably right.


----------



## aqsw

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Statement stuff is delayed til summer. Up to you what to do til then, but if you have no amp atm, Gungnir is the best DAC I've heard with any personal time and you might be able to find a used one for a bit less.


 
  A little confusion there, but what I'm really getting at is " Is the gungnir going to be a good enough dac with the statement amp for a balanced system?" or
  do I really have to buy the "statement" dac also?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Solude

Depends if you want a great normal DAC or a great digital platform style DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





aqsw said:


> A little confusion there, but what I'm really getting at is " Is the gungnir going to be a good enough dac with the statement amp for a balanced system?" or
> do I really have to buy the "statement" dac also?
> 
> Thanks


 
  The Gungnir will be fine with statement amp. Although, the statement DAC will obviously be better and more full featured.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





aqsw said:


> A little confusion there, but what I'm really getting at is " Is the gungnir going to be a good enough dac with the statement amp for a balanced system?" or
> do I really have to buy the "statement" dac also?
> 
> Thanks


 
  Like every other discussion....100% subjective.
  Gotta go with the flow and what you want and need now.  It changes to darn fast for anyone to speak authoritatively.


----------



## Maxvla

aqsw said:


> A little confusion there, but what I'm really getting at is " Is the gungnir going to be a good enough dac with the statement amp for a balanced system?" or
> do I really have to buy the "statement" dac also?
> 
> Thanks




Well originally my post was entirely different because I confused amp and DAC cause I was distracted. You don't need to buy the statement DAC but it seemed like that was what you were planning on doing. If you are waiting it out with no DAC what I would do is get the best DAC you can while making sure it will have good resale value later. I am sort of in that position now with Gungnir waiting for the statement but ready for a new better DAC already.


----------



## Grisjean

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I'm a stupid American.
> 
> You're probably right.


 
   
  It's been few weeks since I ordered them. dd.mm.yy would be the european style date. At least my credit card is charged, so I seriously hope they are going to fulfill their side of the deal. =) It's just that those Senns don't impress me without any amp. I even thought of buying some portable dac/amp for the wait, but I know that after Schiit is here, the wait seems a much shorter time.


----------



## redmaw

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Anyone get shipping info on their gungnir last few days? And if you did, when abouts did you order it? Thanks ddod


 
   
  My order was placed December 6th and has not shipped yet :\


----------



## NZheadcase

maxvla said:


> Well originally my post was entirely different because I confused amp and DAC cause I was distracted. You don't need to buy the statement DAC but it seemed like that was what you were planning on doing. If you are waiting it out with no DAC what I would do is get the best DAC you can while making sure it will have good resale value later. I am sort of in that position now with Gungnir waiting for the statement but ready for a new better DAC already.




Dibs on buying your gungnir when u get the statement dac!


----------



## Maxvla

Gonna hold you to that!


----------



## NZheadcase

Of course! As long as the price is right and fair.  

Oooohhh. I better start saving.


----------



## jackiedh

Schiit's practice is to charge (authorize) your card upon order placement-but if they do not ship within 3 days they release or credit back that charge until they actually ship....
   
  When they are ready to ship they will re authorize/charge your card--
   
  jack


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Just a question regarding a bifrost+lyr setup. Is it safe to leave them on all the time? (Whenever my computer is running) Would it be OK to use them for everything I do on my computer and not just high fidelity music? (youtube, movies, games)
   
  Thanks and please let me know.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just a question regarding a bifrost+lyr setup. Is it safe to leave them on all the time? (Whenever my computer is running) Would it be OK to use them for everything I do on my computer and not just high fidelity music? (youtube, movies, games)
> 
> Thanks and please let me know.


 
   
  Sure, that's what I do with my Bifrost and Asgard.
   
  Know that tubes do have a finite lifespan though, so they're going to eventually need to be replaced (is going to happen either way, but that will cause it to happen sooner).


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Sure, that's what I do with my Bifrost and Asgard.
> 
> Know that tubes do have a finite lifespan though, so they're going to eventually need to be replaced (is going to happen either way, but that will cause it to happen sooner).


 
   
   
  Yeah, I know about that. How often would I have to replace them if I used the lyr for daily usage?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

oicwutudidthar said:


> Yeah, I know about that. How often would I have to replace them if I used the lyr for daily usage?




Depending on quality of the tube the estimate ranges a bit. 6dj8-5000hr, 6922,7308,cca-10,000hr


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Wow, that is still a very long time.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Wow, that is still a very long time.


 
   
  Oh yeah, it's not like they're going to be dying on you monthly, it's just something to keep in mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  And unrelated to that, but I actually just sold all my Schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Gonna be using my new portable amp (UHA-6S MkII) for now and maybe put the money towards either a better home setup or speakers...we will see.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

defiant00 said:


> Oh yeah, it's not like they're going to be dying on you monthly, it's just something to keep in mind
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No way, are you keeping the lcd2s


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> No way, are you keeping the lcd2s


 
   
  Yup, they're staying (well, once they're fixed, wood just cracked on me). They sounded good enough through the portable amp at the meet that I'm going to stick with that for now and decide what to do. Who knows, may be a Mjolnir and Gungnir in my future.


----------



## Iamnothim

I economized and made some changes today.
  Had my 2nd Lyr hanging around waiting for the Gungnir.
  "Thought, wait, this is too much."
   
  Cancelled the Gungnir
  Returned the 2nd Lyr
  Ordered a set of the new little M&M for the 2nd system.
   
  My replacement DacMagic Plus arrives today for the room system.
  I'll either
  A) Keep it.
  B) Replace with another Bifrost
  C) ?


----------



## kkcsm

Hi, I'm in my second evening with a new Bifrost+Lyr+HE500... Couldn't be happier!  It's been a short path from first decent headphones driven directly from my iPhone to this, but I have a hard time thinking I'll need anything else for a long time.  
   
  -K


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kkcsm said:


> Hi, I'm in my second evening with a new Bifrost+Lyr+HE500... Couldn't be happier!  It's been a short path from first decent headphones driven directly from my iPhone to this, but I have a hard time thinking I'll need anything else for a long time.
> 
> -K


 
  Dont go here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/5040


----------



## kkcsm

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Dont go here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/5040


 

 Ha!  Thanks for the warning!
   
  I have spent some time there.  Actually I purchased the Lyr with the GE tubes and the 6N1Ps.  I had the 6N1Ps in for a brief time while troubleshooting a ground loop hum before I had the backordered Bifrost and other than that I've had the GE tubes in.  I'm completely happy with the sound with the GE tubes and am enjoying music like before wife, kids and subsequent volume restrictions.


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





kkcsm said:


> Hi, I'm in my second evening with a new Bifrost+Lyr+HE500... Couldn't be happier!  It's been a short path from first decent headphones driven directly from my iPhone to this, but I have a hard time thinking I'll need anything else for a long time.
> 
> -K


 
   
  congrats! that should shoo away the upgrade bug for a while.


----------



## lyrill

what exactly does the tube do to make you know that it is reached its whatever thousand hours of life expectancy?>
   
  if it is indeed 100% the claimed hours,it wouldbe at least a year or too.. but i have had my lyr for a good year, a lot of listening, but certainly not a regular 10 hours a day every day...some days it is 16 hours a day,some zero for sure.


----------



## Maxvla

Use the tubes until you notice any sonic defects. Typically a tube going bad will have some noise or static added to the signal. If it is a sudden fail, the tube will not engage at all. Most of the time there is ample warning.


----------



## Solude

The main tell tale assuming it's wear, is the gain starts to drop as does speed.  Ie on a tester the output isn't as high as it should be.


----------



## gmahler2u

This valhalla can drive my lcd2.  I though valhalla can't drive the ortho cans.
  Where did I get that idea...just beautiful


----------



## Swannie

I love my Magni/Modi Combo stack. It may not be the Valhalla, but it powers my set of V-Moda m-100s well and I get all of the potential. Since it can properly drive Ortho's I was thinking of grabbing pair eventually. Any suggestions?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





lyrill said:


> what exactly does the tube do to make you know that it is reached its whatever thousand hours of life expectancy?>
> 
> if it is indeed 100% the claimed hours,it wouldbe at least a year or too.. but i have had my lyr for a good year, a lot of listening, but certainly not a regular 10 hours a day every day...some days it is 16 hours a day,some zero for sure.


 
  The number of "hours" stated are a statistical estimate expressed in "MTBF" , or mean time between failure.
  A manufacture performs tests on their product and bases their MTBF ratings on the number of failures out of a sample.
   
  Statistics being statistics you could be very lucky and have a tube last 20,000 hours or unlucky and only last 500.
  Death may be catastrophic or gradual.  But they will die.
  It's "YMMV"


----------



## Synergist969

Dear iamnothim:
   
      That being said regarding statistics and "MTBF", are there specific tube types and or tube manufacturers which have better/more reliable "MTBF"  stats, and/or perhaps publish standard deviations along with their "MTBF" stats???.  I am a very happy HD650 owner, who has driven them with a 15+ year old Headroom portable Traveler(?) amp...and continuing to consider the Lyr as a significant upgrade, but have no experience with tube gear, and still a little leary about dealing with tubes/tube life expectancy, etc...
   
      Thank you.
   
    Sincerely,
    T.A. Kogstrom


----------



## paradoxper

Rely on tube testers or tube's that test good.
   
  Other than that, it's kind of a crapshoot.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> Dear iamnothim:
> 
> That being said regarding statistics and "MTBF", are there specific tube types and or tube manufacturers which have better/more reliable "MTBF"  stats, and/or perhaps publish standard deviations along with their "MTBF" stats???.  I am a very happy HD650 owner, who has driven them with a 15+ year old Headroom portable Traveler(?) amp...and continuing to consider the Lyr as a significant upgrade, but have no experience with tube gear, and still a little leary about dealing with tubes/tube life expectancy, etc...
> 
> ...


 
  Just saw dox post above......  He knows...  A bunch
   
   
 First off there is this thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/5070#post_9096983  where all of us tube junkies hang and tell tales of chasing the unicorn tube for the perfect sound signature.   Many hundreds of dollars are flushed pursuing this myth.  Vintage tubes are like wine for the ears.
  
 I absolutely love my Lyr, I've never owned anything else, hence I can't comment on other amps.  Strike that, my M&M come in next week for a second system.
  
 Tubes, as far as I know there are only a handful of companies making tubes today.  Most are for guitar amps.  Audiophile amps use vintage tubes.  As in made in 1965.  There are "NOS" (New Old Stock) tubes available from around the world.  There are also used tubes.  We rely on the tube sellers test equipment readings to get an idea how good a tube is. For us tube rollers, the gain is worth the potential pain.
  
 Tube life, back to the wine analogy, you get a bad bottle every now and then, with good tube venders you can send them back in a reasonable time period.  Which I think is crazy considering it a 50 year old piece of electronics.  A very subjective answer to your question...and I'm pretty new to the tubes (6DJ8 / ECC88 / 6922) in a Lyr...... I have not seen any posts on the thread saying "my tubes gave out today".  I would recommend you ask.  There are guys there with 100 sets.
  
 It is counterintuitive to think that a piece of 50 year old electronics sounds better than something made more recently.  Some say it's due to the quantity of rare earth metals used back then.  I am reading tech info in an attempt to understand tubes better.  Strike that, to understand tubes at all.
  
 I cannot express how sweet vintage tubes make a Lyr sound.  Tubes are the hobby within the hobby.  It's an adventure finding these rare gems.  I answered a PM yesterday asking about some 1967 Amperex Orange Globes from Heerlen Netherlands.   Price $70.  I can't think of a single component / accessory near a price of $70 that will produce the sonic improvements of those tubes.
  
 Life of tubes:  A lot of these tubes were made for test equipment and military applications.  These applications demanded long life and very high quality standards.  Not sure how old you are.... I'm old and can remember the TV repair guy coming over to test and replace tubes in our monolithic Admiral TV.   The Lyr tubes were used more in test equipment.  They are "pre-Amp" control tubes, not "Power" tubes, hence a longer life span…  YMMV
  
 The Schiit web site quotes a 90 day tube warranty, 5000 MTBF for NOS tubes.  A replacement set is $20.  These sound amazing to many many folks and they stay with stock.  But if the tube crack dealer knocks… you have no idea.  This is what is so dang cool about the Lyr.  It's a whole lot of fun.
  
 Another plus is it's hybrid design.  The tubes are only used for the pre-amp stage.  The power amp is Solid State.  There is a lot of horsepower under the hood.
  
 As I stated before you can get some amazing tubes for $70  I have some I paid $300.  There are crazy $500 - $700 - $1000 sets.
 Those will have a more of a novelty value.  IMO the sonics will improve marginally.  Then there's finding something great for a very low price.   Sadly, that's not me.
  
 It's a big boy hobby, but a lot of fun rolling in one type then changing to another.
  
 Sorry to ramble on…. hope this helps.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> This valhalla can drive my lcd2.  I thought valhalla can't drive the ortho cans.
> Where did I get that idea...just beautiful


 
   
   
  Right on.


----------



## Synergist969

Dear iamnothin and paradoxper:
   
      Thank you for your candid advice.  YES, I AM old enough to remember my father extracting tubes out of our old wood clad Motorola televidion, or was that a Zenith that followed that...(and jumping/cursing when he would accidentally brush his hand against a capacitor tube), and hauling them down to ye old neighborhood drugstore tube testing machine...green-
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, YELlow-
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, RED-
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, was fun for me press the "test" button and watch the guage needle. 
   
      I will indeed begin reading/re-reading the tube rolling thread with increased vigor and scrutiny,... seems I am coming semi-full circle, my father begining my awareness of audio tubes with his "Award Series" Harman-Kardon control amp back in the early/mid sixties...
   
      No need to apologize for the rambling...indicates to me that you are really thinking about the answer, and following that stream of conciousness that is so vital to us "vintage" folks...lol...Like to hear inrtospective speculation so long as it is anounced/qualified as such...
   
      I feel as though I am about to plunge into that perilous, bottomless abyss that is tube equipment...obsessive/compulsive pursuit of vitreous perfection, and the attendant emotional agonization when things just don't quite sound "right"...lol...
   
      Thank you gentlemen for providing me a reason to lose my reason...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
   
    Sincerely,
    T.A.Kogstrom


----------



## paradoxper

Awesome T.A.! Er, I didn't mean that. Honestly, I feel sorry for you. But I want to wish you good luck! Eat a good meal before entering the Lyr thread..cus uh, your wallet will be empty.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

synergist969 said:


> I feel as though I am about to plunge into that perilous, bottomless abyss that is tube equipment...obsessive/compulsive pursuit of vitreous perfection, and the attendant emotional agonization when things just don't quite sound "right".




Well put, are sure you haven't rolled tubes before?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> Dear iamnothin and paradoxper:
> 
> Thank you for your candid advice.  YES, I AM old enough to remember my father extracting tubes out of our old wood clad Motorola televidion, or was that a Zenith that followed that...(and jumping/cursing when he would accidentally brush his hand against a capacitor tube), and hauling them down to ye old neighborhood drugstore tube testing machine...green-
> 
> ...


 
  No apology needed.  I love nostalgia.
   
  Welcome to The Ward.




   
  Here's a link to a Dropbox with some tube documents...
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/moq4g2gjnfeysps/rI_SEEqiG2


----------



## Defiant00

And as genuinely fun as tubes sound to me at times, this is why I stick with solid state


----------



## Iamnothim

defiant00 said:


> And as genuinely fun as tubes sound to me at times, this is why I stick with solid state



The interesting thing is, we don't actually listen to music.


----------



## BrokeStudent

Quote: 





swannie said:


> I love my Magni/Modi Combo stack. It may not be the Valhalla, but it powers my set of V-Moda m-100s well and I get all of the potential. Since it can properly drive Ortho's I was thinking of grabbing pair eventually. Any suggestions?


 
   
  I too have the stack and I have it paired with HE-400's. Absolutely phenomenal sound comes out of this setup. Highs, mids, bass, it's all there. Make sure to get the velour pads ($10 or free from a sponsor of this site if you order through him). This setup pairs very well.


----------



## Swannie

Thank you!


----------



## Defiant00

iamnothim said:


> The interesting thing is, we don't actually listen to music.




Haha, perhaps what I should have said is that as appealing as the idea of tubes seems to me at times (being able to customize my listening experience and such), I know I'd spend lots of money on them and then inevitably worry whether one was going bad, etc.


----------



## Defiant00

swannie said:


> I love my Magni/Modi Combo stack. It may not be the Valhalla, but it powers my set of V-Moda m-100s well and I get all of the potential. Since it can properly drive Ortho's I was thinking of grabbing pair eventually. Any suggestions?




Depends entirely on your budget. HE-400 is certainly the place to start with orthos, but at the same time a lot of people would say it's worth saving up and going with the HE-500 or LCD-2, time and budget permitting.


----------



## markm1

I just ordered the Asgard, but don't  have a DAC. Having spent most of my current budget on HP and amp, I'm thinking of the Fiio 17 as a budget amp. Curious, if people have paired the Modi with the Asgard and how that combination would work, vs a Bilfrost or more upscale DAC.


----------



## jronan2

i used the HRT MSII+ with the asgard for over a year with the denon d7000's. Loved the combo with asynch 24/96 for my macbook air. I really liked the Bifrost, but I preferred the Yulong D100 as a better dac in that price range. Haven't got a chance to check out the modi yet, if I had to guess it would be on par with the e17.


----------



## Defiant00

markm1 said:


> I just ordered the Asgard, but don't  have a DAC. Having spent most of my current budget on HP and amp, I'm thinking of the Fiio 17 as a budget amp. Curious, if people have paired the Modi with the Asgard and how that combination would work, vs a Bilfrost or more upscale DAC.




The Modi is very close to the Bifrost through USB, and is an excellent value that worked quite well with my Asgard.

Ultimately you may want to upgrade, but through USB it is a very good sounding combination.


----------



## Deathdeisel

Damn. I just noticed the MODI coming out a few days ago. I like my ODAC but it simply does not have to sheer looks of the Modi. And the Modi would match my Asgard....Temptation. 
   
  Questions:
   
  Anyone have impressions of the HE-500 with the Asgard? 
   
  Anyone have a review/comparison of the ODAC to the Modi?


----------



## MadMolly

deathdeisel said:


> Damn. I just noticed the MODI coming out a few days ago. I like my ODAC but it simply does not have to sheer looks of the Modi. And the Modi would match my Asgard....Temptation.
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/642401/comparison-and-review-magni-modi-vs-o2-odac


----------



## Synergist969

To all of you unabashed headphonophiles:
   
      Now you have done it...I have been sucked into the vortex of tube bliss/angst/bliss/angst/bliss/angst...etc.,  etc.,    etc.,
   
    In a weak moment I broke down and ordered the Lyr to deliver my Bifrost's signal and drive my beloved HD650's...depending on Schiit's own Jason Stoddard to recommend which tube set with which to start...(the NOS GE's...)...now I await the descent into madness...and will develop a love hate relationship with the Lyr tube rolling thread...may my obssessive compulsive tendencies be held in check by my relatively modest means...lol...
   
    May Wagner's inspirations synergize as well as has been reported...
    Thanks to all who aided in my decision, "perish all hope ye who enter here"...
    T.A.Kogstrom


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Finally, Bifrost is going to be sold in my country! Really psyched up now!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> To all of you unabashed headphonophiles:
> 
> Now you have done it...I have been sucked into the vortex of tube bliss/angst/bliss/angst/bliss/angst...etc.,  etc.,    etc.,
> 
> ...


 
  Outstanding.
  I don't think you will regret it.
   
  I know I haven't, especially tonight after unboxing some NOS 1965 La Radiotechnique E188CC's
  Sublime


----------



## swmtnbiker

Yep, the vintage tube rolling addiction comes next...


----------



## Synergist969

To all you glass tube addicts out there:
   
      Well, I will begin with Jason's succinct recommendation first, the NOS GE's that come as one of the options, to establish a  "baseline" sound signature through my equipment/ears/brain, and then attempt to compare that with what I read/gleen from the tube rolling thread, and hopefully draw some reasonable conclusions regarding what I might like to hear next...though without even hearing a single tube yet, those orange Amperex tubes seem to be singing like Rhinemaidens...
   
      Being a newbie tubie: 
   
  (1) When should I expect these NOS tubes to be broken in? 
  (2) During normal usage, do these tubes need some warm-up time prior to listening, either for the ultimate health of the tube, or for the sound qualities to be maximized?
   
  Thank you.
  Sincerely,
  T.A.Kogstrom
   
  P.S.  I contacted Schiit Audio around 2:00 P.M. on Monday, received Jason's tube recommendation within an hour, ordered within the next hour, and by 8 or 9 P last evening received an e-mail indicating they had shipped!...maybe my requesting tube advice and selecting 2nd day delivery convinced them that I was hooked...lol...(I AM impressed with their promptness!)


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> (1) When should I expect these NOS tubes to be broken in?
> (2) During normal usage, do these tubes need some warm-up time prior to listening, either for the ultimate health of the tube, or for the sound qualities to be maximized?
> 
> Thank you.
> ...


 
  Both of these answers are somewhat subjective but generally,
  1. Somewhere around 20-50 hours they sound their optimum.
  2. I give my Amp 5 minutes to warm up before I feed it signal. Some people say an hour, some play immediately - I do 5 because my tubes are glowing nicely and i'm out of patience.
   
  The biggest rule of thumb is to make sure the volume is all the way down at Power ON and before Power OFF - even this is not really necessary with Schiit gear but is still a good habit to get into.


----------



## hodgjy

Most NOS tubes are burned in by 30 hours.  Some quicker, some longer.  But, most are stable by 30 hours.  Yes, let the tubes warm up for stability and better sound.  There's not much risk in turning them on and off in a short period, but I don't do it just because I'm pretty anal about things.
   
  As far as rolling options, after you start with the stock GE, your next attempt should be the Sylvania 6DJ8.  Those are great tubes that sound nearly as good as the ultra expensive and rare birds.
   
  Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> To all you glass tube addicts out there:
> 
> Well, I will begin with Jason's succinct recommendation first, the NOS GE's that come as one of the options, to establish a  "baseline" sound signature through my equipment/ears/brain, and then attempt to compare that with what I read/gleen from the tube rolling thread, and hopefully draw some reasonable conclusions regarding what I might like to hear next...though without even hearing a single tube yet, those orange Amperex tubes seem to be singing like Rhinemaidens...
> 
> ...


----------



## Synergist969

Dear fellow valvophiles:
   
      Thank you for your assistance/advice and camraderie, I will apply your advice and hopefully make more good than poor choices...however, in retrospect, just having the opportunity to explore this is its own pleasure, may none of us get so lost in the mechanics that we lose sight of why we ultimately pursue this hobby...lol...
   
  Peace,
  T.A. Kogstrom


----------



## O8h7w

Man, Kogstrom, why do you have to write so well? And get so good answers as well. Now I'm feeling an itch to buy a Lyr and start tube rolling, even though I have a Mjolnir driving a pair of Denons and waiting for the statement DAC with a hole in my wallet. See, it makes no sense at all, still I feel this inexplicable need...
   
  Good luck among the tubes, fellow Schiitfans 
  // O8h7w


----------



## mikenike

Got my Bifrost (and Pyst) yesterday, and am loving the sound so far! I'm about 16 or so hours in. A definite improvement over the uDac-2 I was using previously, and I finally get to use the optical cable I bought well over a year ago as a commitment to buy the Bifrost.
   
  I've got the GE's and the 6N1P, so I'll be rolling tubes in the Lyr tonight.


----------



## gmahler2u

can anyone explain this?
   
  The only active devices in the audio signal path in Valhalla are tubes. The 6N1P triodes input provides linear, low noise voltage gain. The 6N6P triodes provide good power output capability for a wide variety of high-impedance headphones (though, if you're looking at orthos, check Mjolnir, Lyr and Asgard instead.)
   
  Is this mean Valhalla is not good for ortho headphone or can not drive ortho headphone?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> can anyone explain this?
> 
> The only active devices in the audio signal path in Valhalla are tubes. The 6N1P triodes input provides linear, low noise voltage gain. The 6N6P triodes provide good power output capability for a wide variety of high-impedance headphones (though, if you're looking at orthos, check Mjolnir, Lyr and Asgard instead.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have not tried it, but you are correct, their recommendation is to not use the Valhalla with orthos.


----------



## Synergist969

Dear O8h7w:
   
      Lol...My father, (a first generation Amercian of Swedish parents who emigrated from "The Old Country" to America almost a hundred years ago), often used the expression, "you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"...lol...I know, strange expresion coming from an engineer son of an stern, Swedish, engineer father, but maybe the Florida climate thawed him out a bit  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  ... 
      In any event, good to hear from someone WAY up north...and wonder if my last name is the least bit common up that-a-way...(about 40 years ago I know I had some 2nd cousins living up there),...oh, but, you can keep the lutefisk, thank you very much...lol...)
   
  Peace/Namaste,
  T.A.Kogstrom


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





synergist969 said:


> Dear O8h7w:
> 
> Lol...My father, (a first generation Amercian of Swedish parents who emigrated from "The Old Country" to America almost a hundred years ago), often used the expression, "you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"...lol...I know, strange expresion coming from an engineer son of an stern, Swedish, engineer father, but maybe the Florida climate thawed him out a bit
> 
> ...


 
   
  Unrelated to the contents of your post, but I can tell I've been programming too long when the first thing I notice about this post is the mismatched ()s.


----------



## Iamnothim

{


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

{=[ ] )::

It's a tube, yeah I know slow day at work..


----------



## Defiant00

iamnothim said:


> {




} lol

Actually, c-style syntax needs to die. Too much cruft and special symbols that the compiler really should be able to figure out on its own.



dailydoseofdaly said:


> {=[ ] )::
> 
> It's a tube, yeah I know slow day at work..




Haha, nice.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

defiant00 said:


> } lol
> 
> Actually, c-style syntax needs to die. Too much cruft and special symbols that the compiler really should be able to figure out on its own.
> Haha, nice.




You like that well bladow
{0<[ ] ):: A-frame with large halo getter


I'm done now, seriously


----------



## Iamnothim

.tube_bummer element.burnt_out li a hover.sad {
      smoke: #000000;
      glow: negative;
      dollar-value: zip;
      wife: maniac;
      leaves: rake;
      flowers: purchase;
  }


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> can anyone explain this?
> 
> The only active devices in the audio signal path in Valhalla are tubes. The 6N1P triodes input provides linear, low noise voltage gain. The 6N6P triodes provide good power output capability for a wide variety of high-impedance headphones (though, if you're looking at orthos, check Mjolnir, Lyr and Asgard instead.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I listen through a Valhalla with LCD2 'phones ... That's their recommendation for "ideal" per their specs and ears, and experience.
   
  Someone was very pleased with their setup last week - was that you? I would re-read those posts, don't panic, see if your rig now sounds lousy just because you've read something online about it.
   
  Do I have a better rig for orthos? Yes of course ... I wondered too about their recommendation, emailed a bit with them to discuss it ---- Long-story-short, ultimately decided to trust my ears. (I've also changed tubes, which made the amp sound better to me)
   
  Jason (at Schitt) said that Distortion would be the main symptom of "mismatch" between Valhalla and LCD2 (I paraphrase). Since I don't detect a problem, I don't _have_ a problem.
   
  I went as far as trying a Lyr, for over a month as I recall (?) ... but never heard something "better" from it, so I stuck with the Valhalla. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> I listen through a Valhalla with LCD2 'phones ... That's their recommendation for "ideal" per their specs and ears, and experience.
> 
> Someone was very pleased with their setup last week - was that you? I would re-read those posts, don't panic, see if your rig now sounds lousy just because you've read something online about it.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I totally agree with you 100%.  I even send Jason (at Schitt), he wouldn't recommand it.  Yes, it's their recommandation.  I'm also go far as ordering lyr.  Sometimes, human's mind just go hay wired over someone else's opinion.  Specially I'm totally new with tubbing stuff, I can't rely on my experience.
  Anyways, Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

Valhalla delivers large voltages into high impedance headphones. Why it's not a good match for ortho's? Valhalla can't supply the current
  that you need for low-efficient and low impedance ortho's.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Alright I got an email my mojo/gungnir combo shipped out


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Alright I got an email my mojo/gungnir combo shipped out


 
  And I bet you're excited! About damn time.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Alright I got an email my mojo/gungnir combo shipped out


 
  Mr. Fancy Amp.


----------



## Defiant00

iamnothim said:


> Mr. Fancy Amp.




Haha, he was more Mr. LCD-3 With No Amp for quite a while (it was a sad sight at the meet)

Good to see that you're finally going to get yours!


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Alright I got an email my mojo/gungnir combo shipped out


 
  I hope to be in that boat soon.  My Mjolnir has been ever so lonely, but my tax return is supposed to be deposited Monday and it's brother will be ordered exactly 2 min. later!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

pelli said:


> I hope to be in that boat soon.  My Mjolnir has been ever so lonely, but my tax return is supposed to be deposited Monday and it's brother will be ordered exactly 2 min. later!







paradoxper said:


> And I bet you're excited! About damn time.







defiant00 said:


> Haha, he was more Mr. LCD-3 With No Amp for quite a while (it was a sad sight at the meet)
> 
> Good to see that you're finally going to get yours!







iamnothim said:


> Mr. Fancy Amp.




Hell yeah!


----------



## awsanderson

is anyone using their Lyr as a preamp for a desktop speaker system?  I want to and was curious about thoughts you guys may have.  Just got my Lyr and Gungnir today, first rig, haven't taken my hd650's off in about 3 hours


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





awsanderson said:


> is anyone using their Lyr as a preamp for a desktop speaker system?  I want to and was curious about thoughts you guys may have.  Just got my Lyr and Gungnir today, first rig, haven't taken my hd650's off in about 3 hours


 
  A great rig.  Congrat's


----------



## TooPoor

May be a really stupid question, but I'd like to get the Mjolnir and was wondering how well my little Modi will do with it until I can upgrade to a better DAC? Apologies if this has been covered. I'm on info overload at the moment. It would be powering HE-400/LCD2.2


----------



## Deathdeisel

Unless you intend on sinking quite a bit of money into a DAC, really your not going to see very much of an improvement. DACs reach their point of diminshing returns rather quickly. Its not something your going to notice much of improvement on unless you quadruple the price basically. I just bought the Modi, and use it with my D5000s, and plan to use it with the HE-500s too and dont intend on selling it unless I completely upgrade, which even then id grab another pair of headphones, and a new tube amp with it before then. So yea.
   
  BTW to those going to buy the Modi, and pair it with any other higher priced Schiit gear than the Magni, dont expect the same sexy brushed finish. The Modi is a very similar color, but is actually powercoated, or so I believe. It certainly feels like powdercoat. Not a huge difference, not enough to even bug me(and im quite picky) Ignore cell phone quality pic. If anyone needs a closer comparison or better quality pics let me know and I can bust out the DSLR. 

   
  .


----------



## alexcs

So you're suggesting a 100 dollar DAC is the start of diminishing returns?


----------



## paradoxper

If I were you I'd try to swing a Bifrost, if feasible. Although, even at that point there are many DACs (including Gungnir) that are better, Bifrost still holds its own and is a value DAC.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

awsanderson said:


> is anyone using their Lyr as a preamp for a desktop speaker system?  I want to and was curious about thoughts you guys may have.  Just got my Lyr and Gungnir today, first rig, haven't taken my hd650's off in about 3 hours :bigsmile_face:




I used my lyr as a preamp for my fostex's desktop speakers for awhile and it worked well, I say give it a go.


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





toopoor said:


> May be a really stupid question, but I'd like to get the Mjolnir and was wondering how well my little Modi will do with it until I can upgrade to a better DAC? Apologies if this has been covered. I'm on info overload at the moment. It would be powering HE-400/LCD2.2


 
  I am currently using the Mjolnir / Modi with my LCD2.2.  It does not have the same detail as my Bifrost, but is working out well as a temporary solution until I get my Gungir.  It also allowed me to stop taking my Bifrost back and forth from my living room to bedroom.  You will want to upgrade, but it gets the job done and I still love the sound of my LCD2/Mjo running through it.  Hope that helps!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





pelli said:


> I am currently using the Mjolnir / Modi with my LCD2.2.  It does not have the same detail as my Bifrost, but is working out well as a temporary solution until I get my Gungir.  It also allowed me to stop taking my Bifrost back and forth from my living room to bedroom.  You will want to upgrade, but it gets the job done and I still love the sound of my LCD2/Mjo running through it.  Hope that helps!


 
  zacly


----------



## awsanderson

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> I used my lyr as a preamp for my fostex's desktop speakers for awhile and it worked well, I say give it a go.


 
  thanks for the input, my plan is a parasound halo a21 powering mini maggies, we'll see...


----------



## TooPoor

Awesome responses guys. Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. I just am not ready to drop another $800+ on a DAC after picking up the Mjolnir. I'm not exactly taking baby steps, but I do have to space it out a bit.


----------



## eddiek997

Siemens CCa tubes for sale in the for sale forum http://www.head-fi.org/t/649275/siemens-cca-tubes-for-lyr


----------



## ljhodad

Very happy with my day-old system. The Gungnir provides great detail and growing soundstage, not too bright with the HE-500s.
  The Mjolnir volume knob (which seems to double as a heat sink) has not gone past 11 o'clock, with plenty of headroom to spare.


----------



## Deathdeisel

Quote: 





alexcs said:


> So you're suggesting a 100 dollar DAC is the start of diminishing returns?


 
   
  The start? Possibly. In reality the DAC is going to be the least noticeable improvement in the whole setup. Youll notice a better improvement probably with using 24/96 audio with 320k unless like I said you quadruple the cost. IE: Modi vs Bifrost Or Gungir


----------



## awsanderson

Quote: 





ljhodad said:


> Very happy with my day-old system. The Gungnir provides great detail and growing soundstage, not too bright with the HE-500s.
> The Mjolnir volume knob (which seems to double as a heat sink) has not gone past 11 o'clock, with plenty of headroom to spare.


 
  beautifull, what cans are those and how do you like them?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Ljhodad do you feel the audiophilleo adds a lot of improvement to the gungnir?


----------



## Maxvla

awsanderson said:


> beautifull, what cans are those and how do you like them?



The HE-500 he mentioned in the post.


----------



## ljhodad

My set up is:
   
Laptop >FLAC/Foobar> Wireworld Ultraviolet> AP2/AQVOX> Black Cat Silver Star> Mini-Circuits HAT-10dB> Gungnir> Pyst XLR> Mjolnir> Moon Audio Blue Dragon 4-pin XLR> *HiFiman HE-500*. 
   
The HE-500s are awesome. Especially balanced. I intentionally used the Blue Dragon cable for its copper versus *Silver* Dragon silver to keep the brightness down and not be like an easier to drive HE-6. Its a whole synergy thing though.


----------



## awsanderson

woops, sometimes I'm kinda dumb


----------



## ljhodad

Quote: 





dailydoseofdaly said:


> Ljhodad do you feel the audiophilleo adds a lot of improvement to the gungnir?


 
  I began "investing" in a SPDIF solution a couple of years ago, long before I knew which DAC I would end up with, other than it would need SPDIF input. Part of the reason was USB was not (much) doing 192, and I had already accumulated several 192 files. New converters were/are popping up every fortnight, so I just committed to AP2 knowing it would do the job with a fair amount of favorable reviews. The AQVOX preceded the now available PurePower (battery) choice, so I went with that as well. Even though the AP2 can directly connect to the DAC, I had also invested in the Black Cat cable. That being said, when I finally chose Schiit, I did the no-USB option. Some, contrary to Schiit's website, feel the USB implementation is on-par with SPDIF.  So I cannot speak about improvements, only that each component was a deliberate choice at the time it was made and hopefully an informed decision. I am quite happy though with the overall results, and would recommend such a system for that budget. If I had to do it again, I might have gone the PurePower route, and those Norse cables are mighty nice...but no regrets. I take that back - I could not get JPLAY to work in 192, so it was removed to another system. Now I'm just enjoying the music.


----------



## jronan2

Did you order the gungnir with usb or not? I wonder how it compares to your converter.


----------



## Maxvla

ljhodad said:


> *That being said, when I finally chose Schiit, I did the no-USB option.*



Sorry ljhodad, it appears your text is invisible for some.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Sorry ljhodad, it appears your text is invisible for some.


 
  Missed it, relax bro.


----------



## Maxvla

jronan2 said:


> Missed it, relax bro.



Just poking a little fun since it was twice in a row


----------



## pandastyle

Anyone listened to the Modi paired with the Valhalla?  How would it compare with the bifrost?  I'd like to get a DAC soon, but I don't really want to spend the extra $250 on the Bifrost if it's not $250 better than the Modi...


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





pandastyle said:


> Anyone listened to the Modi paired with the Valhalla?  How would it compare with the bifrost?  I'd like to get a DAC soon, but I don't really want to spend the extra $250 on the Bifrost if it's not $250 better than the Modi...


 
   
  The valhalla will not bring out the full detail of the bifrost, in otherwords with the bifrost, the valhalla will be the weaker link.  With the modi/val it's probably safe to say that the modi will be the weak link.  I haven't heard it (modi), but it's a safe guess(using other eqipment at a similar price point as a reference in terms of the modi).  So it depends how much you want to maximize your equipment, and I'd say more than anything it depends how much detail reveal your set of headphones has.


----------



## solserenade

llloyd said:


> The valhalla will not bring out the full detail of the bifrost,
> 
> 
> Why not?
> Thanks.


----------



## Defiant00

I think they general implication is that the Valhalla is geared towards a warmer, more tube-y sound instead of highly detailed or analytical.
   
  Just my interpretation of *Llloyd*'s statement as I have never heard the Valhalla.


----------



## hodgjy

Having owned the Valhalla, I disagree.  It is quite neutral.  It has a hint of midrange tube magic, but it is not a warm amp.  Neutral, with some liquid properties, and slight reduction in sibilance.  Not much treble roll off to mention.  It has great detail retrieval. 
   
  Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I think they general implication is that the Valhalla is geared towards a warmer, more tube-y sound instead of highly detailed or analytical.
> 
> Just my interpretation of *Llloyd*'s statement as I have never heard the Valhalla.


----------



## markm1

I just picked up the  Asgard-first amp for my first cans-Grado 225i. I'm interested in what other Asgard owners have paired with their Asgard?
   
  The Modi looks like a steal. Any Asgard/Modi owners out there? Or do the Asgards fair better with a Bilfrost for few more $? Or, a DAC from a different company? Or,even a portable amp and dac?
   
  Much Thanks...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Having owned the Valhalla, I disagree.  It is quite neutral.  It has a hint of midrange tube magic, but it is not a warm amp.  Neutral, with some liquid properties, and slight reduction in sibilance.  Not much treble roll off to mention.  It has great detail retrieval.


 
  Completely agree. I think people tend to equate the Valhalla as warm
  because it's an all tube amp and that's what is expected.


----------



## king8888

I have a Beyer T1 and Denon D7k. I want to find a Schiit amp that can pair well with them. Any suggestions?
   
  I'm using Cambirdge Audio Dac Magic plus as my DAC. I prefer a warm signature amp.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I just picked up the  Asgard-first amp for my first cans-Grado 225i. I'm interested in what other Asgard owners have paired with their Asgard?
> 
> The Modi looks like a steal. Any Asgard/Modi owners out there? Or do the Asgards fair better with a Bilfrost for few more $? Or, a DAC from a different company? Or,even a portable amp and dac?
> 
> Much Thanks...


 
   
  When I had my Asgard I used it with Grado 80i, Shure SRH840, Sennheiser HD600 and then Audez'e LCD-2. I also got to try a good number of other cans with it like most of the Denon and Hifiman lines, Sennheiser HD800 and even the K1000. While it may not have been the very best amp for every can, it always sounded good and was quite enjoyable to my taste.
   
  The Modi is very good for $99, and is quite close to the Bifrost if all you're using is USB. I do think the Bifrost sounds a little better, but good luck figuring out how much that's worth to you. I believe one of the other USB DACs that gets brought up with any frequency is the ODAC, but I have not heard it. I would say that the Asgard and Bifrost stacked do look very nice though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





king8888 said:


> I have a Beyer T1 and Denon D7k. I want to find a Schiit amp that can pair well with them. Any suggestions?
> 
> I'm using Cambirdge Audio Dac Magic plus as my DAC. I prefer a warm signature amp.
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  You should probably look at the Valhalla or Lyr for a warmer amp, although that'll be pretty tube-dependent. Maybe shoot Schiit an email, I'm sure they could recommend which of those they think pairs better with your cans (I would anticipate the Valhalla, but I haven't actually heard it).
   
  Or if you don't mind waiting for a while there's going to be a version of the statement amp that takes tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I just picked up the  Asgard-first amp for my first cans-Grado 225i. I'm interested in what other Asgard owners have paired with their Asgard?
> 
> The Modi looks like a steal. Any Asgard/Modi owners out there? Or do the Asgards fair better with a Bilfrost for few more $? Or, a DAC from a different company? Or,even a portable amp and dac?
> 
> Much Thanks...


 

 I have Asgard with HD800 and lcd2.  Asgard has power to drive them quite nicely.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have Asgard with HD800 and lcd2.  Asgard has power to drive them quite nicely.


 
  Are you paring your Asgard w/ a DAC or no?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Are you paring your Asgard w/ a DAC or no?


 

 I have bifrost with Asgard.  highly recommand this combo but if you have another Dac.  that will also work.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I have bifrost with Asgard.  highly recommand this combo but if you have another Dac.  that will also work.


 
  Thanks-with my ever growing audio wishlist, I was hoping to pinch my pennies a little....but, maybe it's better to spring for the better product if it's worth the long term investment in music quality. I'm wondering how much better the Billfrost/Asgard combo would be vs Modi/Asgard....guess that's hard to say, no?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Thanks-with my ever growing audio wishlist, I was hoping to pinch my pennies a little....but, maybe it's better to spring for the better product if it's worth the long term investment in music quality. I'm wondering how much better the Billfrost/Asgard combo would be vs Modi/Asgard....guess that's hard to say, no?


 

 my recommandation is stay away from this forum.  I now trying my best to stay away from this forum.  Now my wishlist stop.


----------



## Deathdeisel

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I just picked up the  Asgard-first amp for my first cans-Grado 225i. I'm interested in what other Asgard owners have paired with their Asgard?
> 
> The Modi looks like a steal. Any Asgard/Modi owners out there? Or do the Asgards fair better with a Bilfrost for few more $? Or, a DAC from a different company? Or,even a portable amp and dac?
> 
> Much Thanks...


 
  I have both. I had basically _*the*_ other USB DAC at this price point. Which was the ODAC from JDS Labs. Comparing the two I really hear no difference, theres also been other reviews comparing them saying the same. Cant hear any difference. I think the Modi does well, everything you could ask for, for a $100 DAC. I only needed USB so it worked perfect.


----------



## rdaneel

Has there been any announcement from Schiit this week about the Asgard?  I've heard through the grapevine that there may be some news, but I'm not sure how the news will be delivered.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Thanks-with my ever growing audio wishlist, I was hoping to pinch my pennies a little....but, maybe it's better to spring for the better product if it's worth the long term investment in music quality. I'm wondering how much better the Billfrost/Asgard combo would be vs Modi/Asgard....guess that's hard to say, no?


 
   
  If you want a more thorough writeup, my comparison is here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard
  But in general I would say Modi is about 90% of Bifrost (but that last 10% is what Head-fi is all about). If you had them both side-by-side you might be able to hear small differences, but they are quite close.
   
   


rdaneel said:


> Has there been any announcement from Schiit this week about the Asgard?  I've heard through the grapevine that there may be some news, but I'm not sure how the news will be delivered.


 

   
  Don't think so, care to share what you've heard?


----------



## Dillan

I have the Schiit Asgard and (just recently) got the Bifrost. Such good quality products, no complaints. I'm interested now about the news Schiit may be coming out with.


----------



## rdaneel

I don't mean to be a tease, but I've heard that there will be some kind of announcement about the Asgard that coincides with it returning to stock (I think it has been out of stock for a while).  Jason specifically asked for some discretion, though, and I don't want to piss in his pond.  It sounds like we won't have long to wait, though.  This is supposed to be the week...


----------



## jake120

I ordered a Schiit Magni, how they pair with the A700X (i am aware for those that wonder that the A700X are easy to drive  )


----------



## paradoxper

It's not like the Asgard was discontinued and then brought back.
   
  It's simply been on backorder.


----------



## hodgjy

Maybe it's a version 2, like they they did with the Valhalla? 



paradoxper said:


> It's not like the Asgard was discontinued and then brought back.
> 
> It's simply been on backorder.


----------



## tans66

Just got my feet wet with a pair of headphones.Normally listen to my music thru main stereo thru Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers with Paradigm 12 sub. Listening more now to my HP dv7 laptop  with flac music thru the headphones. Wife happy, I'm happy 
  Headphones are Audio tech At-m50 at 38ohm. Before some question my atm50 purchase, they were a gift. By the above mentioned wife.She had it down to those and Shure 840. For the price point I think she couldn't go wrong with either.
  What Schiit Dac and amp would you suggest to match with my phones.
  Would love a tube amp but with the low independance of headphone don't know if that would be a match???
  Any suggestions would be helpful.
  Thx


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> my recommandation is stay away from this forum.  I now trying my best to stay away from this forum.  Now my wishlist stop.


 
  Ha, ha....I am sure that is excellent advice!


----------



## aqsw

Quote: 





tans66 said:


> Just got my feet wet with a pair of headphones.Normally listen to my music thru main stereo thru Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers with Paradigm 12 sub. Listening more now to my HP dv7 laptop  with flac music thru the headphones. Wife happy, I'm happy
> Headphones are Audio tech At-m50 at 38ohm. Before some question my atm50 purchase, they were a gift. By the above mentioned wife.She had it down to those and Shure 840. For the price point I think she couldn't go wrong with either.
> What Schiit Dac and amp would you suggest to match with my phones.
> Would love a tube amp but with the low independance of headphone don't know if that would be a match???
> ...


 
  Modi/Magni. If you upgrade the phones then look at some other schiit.
   
  high impedence - Valhalla
  orthos - lyr/mj


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Maybe it's a version 2, like they they did with the Valhalla?


 
  Valhalla was made to be rollable, I can't see an improved Asgard on a "whim". Meaning, I can't see how they improve a SS amp
  without taking it to the next level (which they've done with Mojo), not to mention keeping a low price.
   
  But rdaneel says there's something. I'd argue that Jason's ambiguity misdirected him. Haha.
   
  I guess we'll see.


----------



## hodgjy

There are plenty of ways to tweak the Asgard. For example, they can reduce the power off thump. Or, they can reduce the voltage transients that currently the relay is the fix for. Maybe they changed the transformer to one that has even lower noise and hum. Maybe it can swing more voltage for higher impedance loads.



paradoxper said:


> Valhalla was made to be rollable, I can't see an improved Asgard on a "whim". Meaning, I can't see how they improve a SS amp
> without taking it to the next level (which they've done with Mojo), not to mention keeping a low price.
> 
> But rdaneel says there's something. I'd argue that Jason's ambiguity misdirected him. Haha.
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> There are plenty of ways to tweak the Asgard. For example, they can reduce the power off thump. Or, they can reduce the voltage transients that currently the relay is the fix for. Maybe they changed the transformer to one that has even lower noise and hum. Maybe it can swing more voltage for higher impedance loads.


 
  I don't see the former being discretion worthy, I guess. The latter option could be of interest, but I guess I don't see that either.
   
  Jason can be straight to the point, yet remain vague. But again, rdaneel mentioned Jason wanting discretion.
   
  This can kind of go back to Modi/Magni, I NEVER saw that coming. So who knows for sure what they're brewin' up.
   
   
  I am also blind to some of these things, my focus is on statement gear.


----------



## rdaneel

paradoxper said:


> Valhalla was made to be rollable, I can't see an improved Asgard on a "whim". Meaning, I can't see how they improve a SS amp
> without taking it to the next level (which they've done with Mojo), not to mention keeping a low price.
> 
> But rdaneel says there's something. I'd argue that Jason's ambiguity misdirected him. Haha.
> ...




I promise it wasn't misinterpreted ambiguity! Let's just say that it made me hold off on pulling the trigger on a Burson SL...


----------



## Impulsum

Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> I promise it wasn't misinterpreted ambiguity! Let's just say that it made me hold off on pulling the trigger on a Burson SL...


 
  Interesting. I've been waiting for a few weeks now for stock to return and was about to go ahead and poke around for a used one from the trade forum here but I'll be sure to hold off just a bit longer. Which is entirely too bad since my Bifrost is just sitting here, looking very, very lonely.


----------



## Defiant00

Asgard 2, looks like a nice improvement: https://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=16


----------



## Maxvla

Good eye. Nice to see higher end experience filter down to lower end so quickly.


----------



## Impulsum

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Asgard 2, looks like a nice improvement: https://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=16


 
  Awesome. I'm not too knowledgeable about the engineering jargon that's on the product's page, but what I do see definitely pleases. Wish I could place a pre-order through now but I suppose I can wait just a bit more.


----------



## Maxvla

Schiit doesn't do pre-orders anymore.


----------



## Impulsum

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Schiit doesn't do pre-orders anymore.


 
  Mm, good to know. Guess I'll just have to be quick on the draw when the time comes.


----------



## Defiant00

That and it doesn't appear to be officially announced just yet, I'm guessing we'll see the usual awesome post and FAQ from Schiit in the next day or so.


----------



## Maxvla

Wonder if they've run out of clever introduction phrases yet...


----------



## rdaneel

Ah, Jason's news is breaking, though maybe not in the way he intended.  I'm sure there will be an announcement soon.  This looks like a very nice piece of kit...  I just have to decide if 1 watt is enough for the HE-500s...


----------



## Maxvla

Considering you will actually use significantly less than 1W with any headphone, yes it is.


----------



## paradoxper

Well, that's just kind of ridiculous. 
   
  It's like Schiit has been designing statement gear, but they got some free time. So it's like "hey, let's just throw some switchable gain in there
  with an preamp". 
   
  No big deal...


----------



## hodgjy

Higher internal voltage and lower distortion. I'm interested. My old Asgard might be up for sale at a nice discount if the reviews of the new one are positive.



paradoxper said:


> Well, that's just kind of ridiculous.
> 
> It's like Schiit has been designing statement gear, but they got some free time. So it's like "hey, let's just throw some switchable gain in there
> with an preamp".
> ...


----------



## Barry S

It's a good move to further differentiate the Asgard from the Magni. Looks like the price is staying at $249.


----------



## whiskaz

Hmm. I wonder what this means for those of us with an Asgard 1 on backorder...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





whiskaz said:


> Hmm. I wonder what this means for those of us with an Asgard 1 on backorder...


 
  +1 Been waiting to see when mine will ship.  Still says they expect to ship this week...


----------



## ninjapirate9901

Purchased a used Bifrost a couple weeks ago and now my Lyr is finally arriving later today. Can't bloody wait


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





whiskaz said:


> Hmm. I wonder what this means for those of us with an Asgard 1 on backorder...


 
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> +1 Been waiting to see when mine will ship.  Still says they expect to ship this week...


 
   
  Knowing Schiit I imagine you'll be getting the new one.


----------



## Deathdeisel

Huh? Cant find what you guys are talking about. If its a new higher output asgard i might be mad. Just bought my asgard less than a month ago, and intend to use it on HE500s or LCD2s.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





deathdeisel said:


> Huh? Cant find what you guys are talking about. If its a new higher output asgard i might be mad. Just bought my asgard less than a month ago, and intend to use it on HE500s or LCD2s.


 
   
  https://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=16
   
  The current Asgard is still very good with planars and has more than enough power (I typically didn't turn mine past 9-10 for normal listening with my LCD-2s).


----------



## MickeyVee

Sweet! Even though I've got the Lyr, l've been thinking about a second system and the Asgard 2 would definitely fit the bill.  Looking forward to opinions and reviews.
   
  Quote:


defiant00 said:


> https://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=16


----------



## DarknightDK

Any word on the release date of the statement schiit?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Higher internal voltage and lower distortion. I'm interested. My old Asgard might be up for sale at a nice discount if the reviews of the new one are positive.


 
  Without a doubt. Looking forward to hearing some reviews.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> +1 Been waiting to see when mine will ship.  Still says they expect to ship this week...


 
  For what it's worth, first time buyer here, I just checked my order which was slated to go out today and asked Jason-he emailed me I'm getting new Asgard. Sweeeet!!!! Yeah as a newbie, I'm pretty pumped to hear this bad boy.


----------



## whiskaz

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> For what it's worth, first time buyer here, I just checked my order which was slated to go out today and asked Jason-he emailed me I'm getting new Asgard. Sweeeet!!!! Yeah as a newbie, I'm pretty pumped to hear this bad boy.


 
   

 Nice. Did he indicate when it might ship out?


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





whiskaz said:


> Nice. Did he indicate when it might ship out?


 
  So, I ordered it on 1/25 and the projected shipping date was 2/6, but he didn't say one way or the other in the email. I'm going to continue checking my log in. I just know the charge on my card was removed and then will be charged once it's processed.


----------



## rush2049

Just made an account to say that I also just ordered an asgard (on monday). Excited to hear that I will be getting the new version.
   
  I will run it through its paces, my gear:
   
  AKG Q701
  Schiit Bifrost
  Schiit Asgard 2 (woo hoo)
  KRK 10-3 Monitors
  Onkyo TX-NR809
  HSU ULS-15
  MXL v69 Mogami Edition Tube Mic
  MOTO Microbook II Audio Interface
   
   
  I plan on running both the Bifrost and the Asgard 2 in a lot of different combinations, not just headphone amping....


----------



## Iamnothim

My statement Amp.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My statement Amp.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


>


 
  Don't you make fun of my CDC Industries Statement Amp.
  It has 1954 valves.
  Highly specialized for vinyl too.
   
  Ah right.  Know where I can get a new pair of scissors??


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> For what it's worth, first time buyer here, I just checked my order which was slated to go out today and asked Jason-he emailed me I'm getting new Asgard. Sweeeet!!!! Yeah as a newbie, I'm pretty pumped to hear this bad boy.


 
  Sweet!!  I hope it's true for all of us.  Ordered mine on Jan 16th.  Placed a separate order for the Magni and Modi so I would have them to help me be patient wating for the Asgard.
  Also want to run the Asgard/Modi for a bit before getting the Bifrost...need the optical eventually...
   
  I am getting excited about the prospect of getting this soon...must be patient, must be patient...


----------



## rdaneel

I assume all outstanding orders will get the new model, no reason to build more of the original (and it was out of stock).


----------



## aoiziptw

i just got my reply from Schiit for my back order, all back order is confirmed to get the Asgard 2.


----------



## j0val

markm1 said:


> I just picked up the  Asgard-first amp for my first cans-Grado 225i. I'm interested in what other Asgard owners have paired with their Asgard?
> 
> The Modi looks like a steal. Any Asgard/Modi owners out there? Or do the Asgards fair better with a Bilfrost for few more $? Or, a DAC from a different company? Or,even a portable amp and dac?
> 
> Much Thanks...




In the exact same situation as you. Recently upgraded from the sr80i's to the 225i's. Note just starting to get into amps and DACs. Went with the Schiit Asgard last night(Asgard 2)because of all the great reviews and how well the supposedly pair with Grados. Plus, the Schiit products are built to last and remain with me when I move up the upgrade latter. 

Still need to get a DAC though. I was also thinking about the Asgard/modi combo. just can't afford the bifrost yet.


----------



## kothganesh

Guys,
  I received my Bifrost and Asgard two weeks ago and have connected them to my Macbook Air. Currently using the HE 400 and my LCD 2.2 should come in next week. I wanted to get the Lyr but Jason assured me that the Asgard had "plenty of power" for the HE-400 and the LCD 2.2.
   
  Will get a Modi/Magni as well when the 230V version of the Magni is available. Great to get on this thread as a Schiit owner.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





j0val said:


> In the exact same situation as you. Recently upgraded from the sr80i's to the 225i's. Note just starting to get into amps and DACs. Went with the Schiit Asgard last night(Asgard 2)because of all the great reviews and how well the supposedly pair with Grados. Plus, the Schiit products are built to last and remain with me when I move up the upgrade latter.
> 
> Still need to get a DAC though. I was also thinking about the Asgard/modi combo. just can't afford the bifrost yet.


 
  Jason did recommend the Bifrost/Asgard combo (I had asked his opinion for the Bifrost/Lyr) when I had emailed him to ask his opinion. I have the Grados 325is and they sound out of this world with the Bifrost/Asgard. He did also mention the Modi/Magni as the alternative combo to the Grados (and He-400).


----------



## j0val

kothganesh said:


> Jason did recommend the Bifrost/Asgard combo (I had asked his opinion for the Bifrost/Lyr) when I had emailed him to ask his opinion. I have the Grados 325is and they sound out of this world with the Bifrost/Asgard. He did also mention the Modi/Magni as the alternative combo to the Grados (and He-400).




I read somewhere in this thread I think that the magni/modi combo was a bit on the bright side. I like the idea of the Asgard/bifrost combo as a long term investment. 

I've never personally heard the sr325is, but I've read they tend to be a little brighter than grados typically are. What kind of sound do you get with the schiit combo?


----------



## kothganesh

The soundstage is very bright. Everything is amazingly clear and detailed. To my ear, just about everything has been brought a little more forward than when I used the Grados with the E17. I mentioned in another thread (HE-400) that several songs now sound more detailed with the 325is compared to the HE-400 but that could just be me. I listen only to rock music, FYI.


----------



## kothganesh

I assume there a few Bifrost/Lyr Head-fiers out there. To them, I would like to ask, has any one heard the Bifrost/Asgard versus Bifrost/Lyr ? if you have or do, is the upgrade to the Lyr worthwhile ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> I assume there a few Bifrost/Lyr Head-fiers out there. To them, I would like to ask, has any one heard the Bifrost/Asgard versus Bifrost/Lyr ? if you have or do, is the upgrade to the Lyr worthwhile ?
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  I was the other way around if that counts. Had the Bifrost and Asgard for about a year and got to listen to the Lyr with it a couple times.
   
  At the levels I listen at with my LCD-2s I actually preferred the Asgard over most of the tubes I tried in the Lyr, and the 'best' I heard the Lyr sounded as good (but not better than) the Asgard. All of course very much just in my opinion and to my listening preference.
   
  With that said, I did also try the K701 with both and actually preferred the Lyr by a good bit since the right tubes really tamed the treble and added enough bass that I actually enjoyed them, where on the Asgard I just found them somewhat unpleasant.
   
  So from my experience the ability to customize the Lyr's sound with different tubes is the more compelling feature, not necessarily the extra power. If you like a more clean solid-state sound (like I do for the cans that I own), then you may actually prefer the Asgard.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I was the other way around if that counts. Had the Bifrost and Asgard for about a year and got to listen to the Lyr with it a couple times.
> 
> At the levels I listen at with my LCD-2s I actually preferred the Asgard over most of the tubes I tried in the Lyr, and the 'best' I heard the Lyr sounded as good (but not better than) the Asgard. All of course very much just in my opinion and to my listening preference.
> 
> ...


 
  That's very interesting and informative. However, till date, I have listened to music only with solid-state amps hence I don't have a clue about the sound emanating from tube amps. The only thing I have heard is that the music from the latter is more "warm" (whatever that means !).
  I think the Asgard puts out enough power for my headphones (Grado 325is, HE-400 and will receive the LCD 2.2 soon) so power is really not the primary concern.
   
  Thanks


----------



## whiskaz

Asgard 2 pics appear to be live: http://schiit.com/cart/images/asgard2_03.jpg... specifications below do not appear to have changed yet though


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> That's very interesting and informative. However, till date, I have listened to music only with solid-state amps hence I don't have a clue about the sound emanating from tube amps. The only thing I have heard is that the music from the latter is more "warm" (whatever that means !).
> I think the Asgard puts out enough power for my headphones (Grado 325is, HE-400 and will receive the LCD 2.2 soon) so power is really not the primary concern.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  Tubes can basically act like an EQ, and different tubes will change the sound in different ways. For me personally I prefer having an amp that should always sound the same and last for years without any replacement parts needed, but obviously tube rolling also appeals to a large number of people here.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





whiskaz said:


> Asgard 2 pics appear to be live: http://schiit.com/cart/images/asgard2_03.jpg... specifications below do not appear to have changed yet though


 
   
  Good find there, I wonder if that means we'll get the announcement today.


----------



## whiskaz

Well, going back to the link someone posted before...it has pics and specs and a buy now button w/ a "ships in 5-7 days" but the link isn't up on the site and nothing official yet...

 https://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=16


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Tubes can basically act like an EQ, and different tubes will change the sound in different ways. For me personally I prefer having an amp that should always sound the same and last for years without any replacement parts needed, but obviously tube rolling also appeals to a large number of people here.


 
  Ah thanks. Now I also know what tube rolling means.


----------



## rush2049

http://schiit.com/cart/images/asgard2_03.jpg
   
  The description on the Asgard 2 page says it has pre-outs? 
   
  And by looking at the pic of the circuit design: http://schiit.com/cart/images/asgard2_05.jpg
   
  I guess the pre-outs don't come straight from the in-plugs. It looks like they first run through the potentiometer circuit. Also by the lack of a selector switch I assume that the pre-outs and the headphone are powered at the same time. That would be good for running my monitors and/or headphones and just powering one or the other on....(no cable switching).
   
  Also looks like the left and right channel circuitry is further separated and not split up by the capacitors like the previous asgard. This probably has something to do with how they achieved the lower total harmonic distortion that they state on the product page (A2:  Less than 0.008%) (A1:  Less than 0.06%)
   
  The large capacitors looks to have changes, both in size, type, and locations. As well as the transformer.
   
  Also the asgard 2 looks to have less resistors and more surface mount components (unless the capacitors are hiding them). This will most likely make less work that must be done by hand. (Unless they are manually placing surface components and baking solder by hand)
   
   
   
  -----I'm excited to receive the one I ordered. Looks like great improvements to me....


----------



## whiskaz

*Can I turn off the headphone outs when I’m using the preamp outputs?*
 Plugging in headphones automatically disconnects the pre-outs.
  
  I'm not sure why I thought it wouldn't disconnect the pre-outs automatically, but I was a little excited to try and hook a powered subwoofer up to them while using the headphones for movies 
   
  http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-asgard-2/


----------



## SoupRKnowva

http://www.head-fi.org/t/650075/same-old-schiit-um-no-welcome-to-asgard-2

There is an announcement thread now as well


----------



## rdaneel

As always, I love the new FAQ re Asgard 2...


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





j0val said:


> I read somewhere in this thread I think that the magni/modi combo was a bit on the bright side. I like the idea of the Asgard/bifrost combo as a long term investment.
> 
> I've never personally heard the sr325is, but I've read they tend to be a little brighter than grados typically are. What kind of sound do you get with the schiit combo?


 
  I mentioned something along these lines when using the G cush pads on the 325is (painful peircing highs).  I switch to the reversed L cush when using the M/M schiit stack. 
   
  Also, my 325is were fairly new then, they have since calmed down (either they or I have burned in now)...Now I can use the G cush for most songs, some are still a little too ?bright? but tolerable.


----------



## vaed

Hey guys! I guess I'm a Schiit owner now. A spoiled-as-s*** one. I'll quote this little anecdote from the Mad Dog thread.
   
   
   


vaed said:


> Holy. screw***. ****. Sorry, this is going a little off-topic, but I'll get there.
> 
> Okay, so I'm in a lab, and I pull out my MD's from my bag along with my E10. I plug my E10 in, but I notice that my MD's have completely lost their right channel through the headphone jack. The Lineout is fine. I start to freak out because I figured that it must've broken when I was carrying it in my backpack. I text my dad about it, and he tells me to call him. My dad doesn't like it when I break toys.
> 
> So I call him, and he tells me that he wanted to surprise me... he bought me the Asgard 2 AND the Bifrost. Commence me freaking the **** out.


 
  This was my graduation present. I couldn't be happier! Coming from a Schiit Magni + E10 combo.


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





vaed said:


> Hey guys! I guess I'm a Schiit owner now. A spoiled-as-s*** one. I'll quote this little anecdote from the Mad Dog thread.
> 
> 
> 
> This was my graduation present. I couldn't be happier! Coming from a Schiit + E10 combo.


 
   
  That's awesome! Welcome to Schiit club!


----------



## bearFNF

My order status for the Asgard 2 just updated from bockordered to "shipping Feb 15th"!!!  sweet.


----------



## rush2049

bearfnf said:


> My order status for the Asgard 2 just updated from bockordered to "shipping Feb 15th"!!!  sweet.


 

Same here.


----------



## Impulsum

Quote: 





rush2049 said:


> Same here.


 
  I suppose I'll be joining the Asgard 2 club soon, as well. 
   
  I've already have my Bifrost for weeks but was waiting on stock of the Asgard. Guess it was worth it.


----------



## hodgjy

Whohoo!  My Asgard 2 ships on 2/15.  Can't wait!


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Lyr vs Asgard 2 hmmmm


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Lyr vs Asgard 2 hmmmm


 
  Mango v Papaya


----------



## gmahler2u

meat vs veggie?


----------



## Iamnothim

That's a good one.  Might even be Vegan.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Lyr vs Asgard 2 hmmmm


 
   
  It will be a very interesting head to head. I have held the lyr on a pedastal for quite a long time. And I really don't see it going anywhere even against the Asgard 2. The lyr and the ability to flavor the sound with tubes is good fun in it's own right. But if the A2, or mojo mini as I like to call it, can come close to the lyr that would be impressive.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It will be a very interesting head to head. I have held the lyr on a pedastal for quite a long time. And I really don't see it going anywhere even against the Asgard 2. The lyr and the ability to flavor the sound with tubes is good fun in it's own right. But if the A2, or mojo mini as I like to call it, can come close to the lyr that would be impressive.


 
  Hey Matt,
  Give me a week and I'll give you my dopy opinion.
  Just ordered an A2 and Bifrost to go along with my Lyr / Bifrost.
   
  Opinion Please:
  The only buds I've had are the new Apple iPhone5 buds.   Also had the iPhone4 buds.
  What are some IEM's I that I should look at?
  Let's say under $200


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Look no further. The vsonic gr07 mkii is just terrific. They go for about $150 shipped. I struggled for years to find an iem with a great sound signature that would give a good fit and seal. The gr07 has adjustable nozzles to let the angle fit in each ear perfectly. They have a great sound signature. Highly recommended.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Look no further. The vsonic gr07 mkii is just terrific. They go for about $150 shipped. I struggled for years to find an iem with a great sound signature that would give a good fit and seal. The gr07 has adjustable nozzles to let the angle fit in each ear perfectly. They have a great sound signature. Highly recommended.


 
  Thanks O' bunch


----------



## MattTCG

^^ No problem. One request to the powers that be at Schitt. Oh how I wish that the power button was on the front of the chasis. I'm sure that there is a good design reason for this. But it's one of the few quirks about the Schitt amps that drives me nuts.


----------



## rdaneel

matttcg said:


> ^^ No problem. One request to the powers that be at Schitt. Oh how I wish that the power button was on the front of the chasis. I'm sure that there is a good design reason for this. But it's one of the few quirks about the Schitt amps that drives me nuts.




YES! The idea of reaching into my rack over a hot class A chassis to flip a tiny power switch isn't super appealing!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ No problem. One request to the powers that be at Schitt. Oh how I wish that the power button was on the front of the chasis. I'm sure that there is a good design reason for this. But it's one of the few quirks about the Schitt amps that drives me nuts.


 
  Indeed. No power switch on front of Schiit


----------



## Maxvla

I don't mind the rear power switch, but I do hope they put a front one on the statement gear. Statement isn't about saving money, so we should have the conveniences we are accustomed to, and expect to pay for proper implementation of such.


----------



## hodgjy

If you read Jason's answer to this topic, you'll see that it is the proper implementation in his mind.  The AC power source and rectifier are in the back.  He doesn't want AC lines running all through the amp just to make the convenience of a front power switch.  The most expensive amp I own ($1500) also has a rear power switch.  Seems like there's more to it than just allowing for a clean face plate.
   
  Quote: 





maxvla said:


> I don't mind the rear power switch, but I do hope they put a front one on the statement gear. Statement isn't about saving money, so we should have the conveniences we are accustomed to, and expect to pay for *proper implementation of such.*


----------



## Maxvla

And if you read the linked thread, someone mentions how it might be possible to use a DC switch to turn on the amp at added expense and perhaps size. This is what I was referring to.


----------



## paradoxper

I hope IF for statement they do move the power to the front it's not a switch. That's still clunky and ugly.
  I could do with some other implementation. However I'd still just prefer it be on the back.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm no electrician or electrical engineer, but I would think the power switch needs to be before the rectifier in the circuit. I could be very wrong, though.


----------



## Maxvla

paradoxper said:


> I hope IF for statement they do move the power to the front it's not a switch. That's still clunky and ugly.
> I could do with some other implementation. However I'd still just prefer it be on the back.



A button like is on the Bifrost/Gungnir DACs would be excellent, though it may have to function a bit different (deeper press likely).

Something common on many AVRs is a hard power switch that engages a stand-by mode with a soft touch actual power switch. Perhaps this is the answer. Would certainly be a statement.


----------



## eddiek997

Why not just plug them into a surge strip and hit the power on that instead?
 I assume everyone has their schiit surge protected anyway right?


----------



## Maxvla

eddiek997 said:


> Why not just plug them into a surge strip and hit the power on that instead?
> 
> I assume everyone has their schiit surge protected anyway right?



My computer is plugged into the same set of plugs. Wouldn't be so great as I prefer to leave my computer on 24/7, and I don't always listen to my gear while at the computer.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> A button like is on the Bifrost/Gungnir DACs would be excellent, though it may have to function a bit different (deeper press likely).
> 
> Something common on many AVRs is a hard power switch that engages a stand-by mode with a soft touch actual power switch. Perhaps this is the answer. Would certainly be a statement.


 
  Again IF it's moved, then the soft touch is an intriguing idea. However I believe it is the  LG that has a similar design, with many complaints
  about such soft touch not being totally responsive.
   
  I think the most logical button would be what the Bifrost/Gungnir employ.


----------



## bearFNF

You could use a switched outlet on another component in your system or add a DC triggered switched outlet if that is available in your system.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> My computer is plugged into the same set of plugs. Wouldn't be so great as I prefer to leave my computer on 24/7, and I don't always listen to my gear while at the computer.


 

 Agreed, but I would also hope that you have your computer on a battery backup. If you do, you could plug a simple surge strip into one of the other ports on the battery backup and your schiit into that.
  Personally, I have my setup via a UPS which then feeds my audio eqpt via a Monster Pro Powercenter.


----------



## hodgjy

I don't mean any disrespect or to belittle anyone, but such first world problems we have. We need to leave our computers on 24/7 and reaching around the back of an amp causes us stress.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I don't mean any disrespect or to belittle anyone, but such first world problems we have. We need to leave our computers on 24/7 and reaching around the back of an amp causes us stress.


 
  I have never turned my Mojo/Gungnir off since getting it. Tubes are waaaaay different though.
   
  I haven't turned my mac off in over 2 years....
   
  You're either lazy for wanting the switch on the front, lazy for not getting a trigger switch for your gear, lazy for not turning your gear off, or maybe all of the above.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

hodgjy said:


> I don't mean any disrespect or to belittle anyone, but such first world problems we have. We need to leave our computers on 24/7 and reaching around the back of an amp causes us stress.




Haha right? But also, I never turn off my mjolnir so it doesn't really bother me. It doesn't put off enough heat to matter to me, though it guess it is winter right now. The thing doesn't even feel that warm since its so cold


----------



## Maxvla

hodgjy said:


> I don't mean any disrespect or to belittle anyone, but such first world problems we have. We need to leave our computers on 24/7 and reaching around the back of an amp causes us stress.



First world problems are still problems. Just because our standard of living is higher it doesn't mean we can't have what we want if we are willing to pay for it. I never said I wouldn't accept an amp with the switch on the back, I just hoped that in an 'all-out' statement affair, the power switch would be on the front regardless of added cost for doing it right. It's not supposed to be good bang for the buck, though I'm guessing it will be since it is still a piece of Schiit, after all.


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Anyone already got the Asgard 2? I am wondering if it is an upgrade to the Asgard or just a sidegrade since it has the same price tag and also does it run quite hot like the Asgard?


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





absolutezero said:


> Anyone already got the Asgard 2? I am wondering if it is an upgrade to the Asgard or just a sidegrade since it has the same price tag and also does it run quite hot like the Asgard?


 
  It doesn't start shipping till the end of the week so no one has the answers to your questions. According to Jason it runs as hot as the original and performance is closer to Mjolnir than the original.


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> It doesn't start shipping till the end of the week so no one has the answers to your questions. According to Jason it runs as hot as the original and performance is closer to Mjolnir than the original.


 

 I thought it has already been shipped to customers, my bad.
  If it comes close to Mjolnir then it is a great bargain for the price point but we have to wait and see.


----------



## bearFNF

Look at this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/650075/same-old-schiit-um-no-welcome-to-asgard-2
   
  Looks to be a good ugrade.
   
  I also got an email saying they will start shipping Tuesday.


----------



## Steve Eddy

My Schiit doesn't have a remote control! I have to actually move my arm, reach out, grab the knob and if that's not bad enough, turn it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Reminds me of an old episode of The Jetsons. George comes home from work one day, dragging butt, saying "Boy that Mr. Spaceley's a real slave driver! I had to push the button on and off five times today!" 
   
  se


----------



## Iamnothim

In one case, headphone amp, I totally agree.
   
  Now I love the minimalistic design of Schiit products.  That's the beauty and flagship statement stuff, heck you want any excuse to touch it.
   
  My whole house system is a bit different.  I control a whole rack of equipment with a ThinkFlood RedEye Pro.  I use contact closures, IR sprayers, RS-232 from the REP to control my A/V gear Lutron Homeworks Lighting and tie into my almost abandon Crestron system.  REP is great and for a fraction of the cost and hassle orphaned the Crestron A/V controls.
   
  I'm using a Bifrost in the equipment rack.  Now.... I have 2 choices. A) let it run.  B) spend stupid money on an A/C outlet with a contact closure.
   
  I'm betting that the Bifrost MTBF is sick.  I'm going with "A"


----------



## Maxvla

steve eddy said:


> My Schiit doesn't have a remote control! I have to actually move my arm, reach out, grab the knob and if that's not bad enough, turn it! :rolleyes:
> 
> Reminds me of an old episode of The Jetsons. George comes home from work one day, dragging butt, saying "Boy that Mr. Spaceley's a real slave driver! I had to push the button on and off five times today!"
> 
> se



Come now, most headphone gear is within arm reach and it is exceptionally rare to find headphone gear with remote controls. All I ask is for a front power switch.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Come now, most headphone gear is within arm reach and it is exceptionally rare to find headphone gear with remote controls. All I ask is for a front power switch.


 
  I never thought about it before, but I think Hodgjy's post relaying Jason's reasons for putting the switch in the back make a lot of sense.  Contain the high voltage.
  Then there's the increased fabrication of the faceplate and a cosmetically appealing switch.   Deign and Engineering has tradeoffs.
   
  It sounds so easy to put a switch in the front, but perhaps the product sounds better with it in the rear.  Ya gotta trust the engineers. Schiit is function over form.


----------



## Maxvla

So is the DC switch mentioned in the other thread a fabrication? I'm not asking for Schiit to compromise on sound, but rather use it's statement to overcome the traditional obstacle with clever thinking and extra cost if needed, and if indeed possible.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I never thought about it before, but I think Hodgjy's post relaying Jason's reasons for putting the switch in the back make a lot of sense.  Contain the high voltage.
> Then there's the increased fabrication of the faceplate and a cosmetically appealing switch.   Deign and Engineering has tradeoffs.
> 
> It sounds so easy to put a switch in the front, but perhaps the product sounds better with it in the rear.  Ya gotta trust the engineers. Schiit is function over form.


 
   
  Hey guys,
   
  You're not gonna get a switch on the front. Sorry. If we did that, you'd have nothing to complain about!
   
  (Kidding, but that is a well-known principle in presenting advertising concepts--make sure there's a simple, easy to spot problem with the concept so the client doesn't nitpick the entire thing to death.)
   
  The reality is, yes, we want to keep the AC routing as simple as possible. Do other guys run it all over the chassis? Sure. But we don't want to. And, if you start getting into "standby" switches and stuff, you start getting into CE requirements for power consumption in standby, which usually requires a tiny "keep-alive" transformer, plus a microprocessor to run the power management, then with a microprocessor you have to have FCC certification if it runs above 9kHz (no typo--9kHz). 
   
  So that means:
   
  1. An extra power transformer in everything we make, and extra cost for it.
  2. Additional cost and time for FCC certification on everything we make, not just DACs.
  3. A bigger price tag.
   
  So our power switches will stay on the back, and they will be real power switches, not standby switches, thank you. If you want remote control, soft-touch switches, chassis hogged out of a solid piece of aluminum, an automatic car washer and optional vacuum cleaner with attachments for pumping out your basement in a flood, it's best to look elsewhere. 
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## Iamnothim

They are smart guys they understand tradeoffs. Profit / Functionality.
  They've been at this a long time and they make decisions that define their products.... Case in point:  A damn smug web site.
   
  Somehow I don't see Jason leading a focus group.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  EDIT: .....  (see above)


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Come now, most headphone gear is within arm reach and it is exceptionally rare to find headphone gear with remote controls. All I ask is for a front power switch.


 
   
  I dunno. The most commonly ordered headphone cable length I get is 2.5 meters, and there are a surprising number of people wanting 4 and even 5 meter cables.
   
  Anyway, I own a Magni and a Bifrost, and I'm afraid I just don't "get" the rear switch being problematic. But that's just me.
   
  se


----------



## Maxvla

So the only way to get safe power from the front is to jump through all those hoops? Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed reply. Makes me wonder about all this other gear that is made if it's really that big of a problem. 99% of gear has a front power switch, yet it's apparently a design taboo to do so. Odd.

And since some of you insist on touting price/performance tradeoffs, please stop misunderstanding me. I never expected to not have to pay extra, and this is supposed to be a statement product. Orpheus, SR-009, HD800's ring radiator, the gigantic Woo monoblocks with swappable tube types, all of these types of things bring innovation at extra cost. Playing it safe by sticking to the status quo slow progress. I'm not at all saying Schiit is doing this with their statement products because the important bits sound like they will be quite different from normal. I'm just pointing out that pushing the envelope about what is expected and safe is what statement products are all about.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> I dunno. The most commonly ordered headphone cable length I get is 2.5 meters, and there are a surprising number of people wanting 4 and even 5 meter cables.
> 
> Anyway, I own a Magni and a Bifrost, and I'm afraid I just don't "get" the rear switch being problematic. But that's just me.
> 
> se


 
  You are Steve the cable guy !!!!!
  I'm getting close to bellying up to the order screen.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Somehow I don't see Jason leading a focus group.


 
   
  In a rare moment of complete honesty:
   
  Focus groups can bite my shiny clear-anodized (not black) aluminum ass.
   
  Sorry, they have destroyed more interesting ideas than I can count. I have had the displeasure of working with many of them in my career in marketing.
   
  An anecdote:
   
  When Lee Iacocca came up with the idea for the original Ford Mustang, the bean-counters at Ford wanted the research. The numbers. The focus groups. Lee didn't have them. So he made them up.
   
  Read that again. He _made them up._
   
  The result? 1.2 million cars sold in 2 years--an annual rate far in excess of Camry sales today, in a much smaller market. A car that's still in production. Arguably one of 2 or 3 most recognized nameplates in the world.
   
  Maybe Schiit ain't up there with Lee, but you know--focus groups usually aren't the ticket to success. They're usually the opposite.
   
  So yeah. Focus groups. Bite me.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> So the only way to get safe power from the front is to jump through all those hoops? Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed reply. Makes me wonder about all this other gear that is made if it's really that big of a problem. 99% of gear has a front power switch, yet it's apparently a design taboo to do so. Odd.


 
   
  Nope, I didn't say that. I said, "We prefer not to run power all over the chassis, though other people do it." Standby switches require the extensive CE hoop-jumping.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> So the only way to get safe power from the front is to jump through all those hoops? Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed reply. Makes me wonder about all this other gear that is made if it's really that big of a problem. 99% of gear has a front power switch, yet it's apparently a design taboo to do so. Odd.


 
  I just sold my old DAC on eBay for $400.  List $599.  It had a front power switch.
  Why did I sell it?  Because it sounded like $50


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> You are Steve the cable guy !!!!!
> I'm getting close to bellying up to the order screen.


 
   
  Hmmmm... You look a little young to me. Can I see some ID? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I just sold my brand new Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus on eBay for $400.  List $599.  It had a front power switch.
> Why did I sell it?  Because it sounded like $50


 

 Congrats! more money for the tube for ya!


----------



## hodgjy

When I first bought my Asgard over a year ago, I didn't like the silver because all my other gear was black.  Now, I honestly prefer the silver.  It's sharper looking and handles dust a lot better.


----------



## kothganesh

To Bifrost owners:
   
  I currently use a USB male a female B cable to connect from the USB of my Macbook Air to the Bifrost. Is this the only way to do it or is there an accessory that will go from the Laptop USB to the optical in of the Bifrost ? I am hesitant to use the headphone jack cable on the Air since I am told the USB out bypasses the built in DAC of the Air and thus a better source of music.
   
  Is this correct ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> To Bifrost owners:
> 
> I currently use a USB male a female B cable to connect from the USB of my Macbook Air to the Bifrost. Is this the only way to do it or is there an accessory that will go from the Laptop USB to the optical in of the Bifrost ? I am hesitant to use the headphone jack cable on the Air since I am told the USB out bypasses the built in DAC of the Air and thus a better source of music.
> 
> ...


 

 That is correct. You could use the head out and this adapter (amazon link) to give you optical out but the signal will still flow through the onboard sound chip of the mbairs logic board.


----------



## kothganesh

Eddy,
   
  thanks for the reply and the link.


----------



## markm1

Well, as a total newbie, I just want to say that I'm stoked that I'm getting the Asgard 2-my first amp for my first real cans and don't even have a DAC yet. But, I got source, man, and I'm really looking forward to spinning some of my favorite CD's!
   
  Mark


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> So the only way to get safe power from the front is to jump through all those hoops? Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed reply. Makes me wonder about all this other gear that is made if it's really that big of a problem. 99% of gear has a front power switch, yet it's apparently a design taboo to do so. Odd.
> 
> And since some of you insist on touting price/performance tradeoffs, please stop misunderstanding me.* I never expected to not have to pay extra, and this is supposed to be a statement product. Orpheus, SR-009, HD800's ring radiator, the gigantic Woo monoblocks with swappable tube types, all of these types of things bring innovation at extra cost. Playing it safe by sticking to the status quo slow progress*. I'm not at all saying Schiit is doing this with their statement products because the important bits sound like they will be quite different from normal. I'm just pointing out that pushing the envelope about what is expected and safe is what statement products are all about.


 
  I don't want to harp on you much because I don't see it being a big deal either way.
   
  But I don't think moving the power switch to the front is being innovative. And that's the problem, it supplies a convenience at costs.
  In which, I believe could be spent elsewhere in truly improving Schiit in a meaningful way.
   
  There are plenty of products out there that have power switches on the front and they sound great, while costing more as expected.
  I just think Jason sticks to an 'old timer' way of thinking. "Other's do it, cool, but it's not our thing"
   
  And again, I'm glad the power switch isn't being moved. Now you can take the saved costs and carve out the aluminum in some fancy waterfall pattern.


----------



## Iamnothim

Is it just me ?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Is it just me ?


 
  Your posts are littered with improper frammer and spelling. So yes, it's just you.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Your posts are littered with improper frammer and spelling. So yes, it's just you.


 
  time to head for the corner for another TO


----------



## hodgjy

Also spelling.  Heehee.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Your posts are littered with improper *frammer* and spelling. So yes, it's just you.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Also spelling.  Heehee.


 
  You don't even know, hodgjy.


----------



## Maxvla

paradoxper said:


> I don't want to harp on you much because I don't see it being a big deal either way.
> 
> But I don't think moving the power switch to the front is being innovative. And that's the problem, it supplies a convenience at costs.
> In which, I believe could be spent elsewhere in truly improving Schiit in a meaningful way.
> ...



If most people do a front power switch improperly and schiit were to do one properly, yes it would be innovative.

I will stop there though because people blew my simple question way out of proportion. I asked about a comment in another thread and everyone jumps down my throat for wanting a front power switch if it was possible to do correctly. It was answered by Jason that it really isn't possible without chips and lots of certifications and the hassle that goes along with it.

Also, I'm glad you have decided what is and is not meaningful for me.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> If most people do a front power switch improperly and schiit were to do one properly, yes it would be innovative.
> 
> I will stop there though because people blew my simple question way out of proportion. I asked about a comment in another thread and everyone jumps down my throat for wanting a front power switch if it was possible to do correctly. It was answered by Jason that it really isn't possible without chips and lots of certifications and the hassle that goes along with it.
> 
> Also, I'm glad you have decided what is and is not meaningful for me.


 
  Perhaps we're talking about different companies that do power switches on the front...
   
  I still fail to see how a power switch on the front is innovative though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I also don't see how you could disagree with Schiit moving the power switch to the front as being meaningful. It was in context to saving those costs
  and putting it towards something that impacts the SQ of the gear.
   
  And furthermore, to your point and desires, it doesn't really matter what hassle has to be done to go through with moving the power switch.
  The entire point was you'd be willing to pay for it, considering it's a statement product.


----------



## Maxvla

Nevermind. Like talking to a wall.


----------



## markm1

Peops, can't we all just get along  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm going to chill to some tunes...isn't that the point of all of this....


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Nevermind. Like talking to a wall.


 
  Play nicely, Maxvla. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Maybe a power switch on the front is meaningful to you in that it offers a convenience you're willing to pay for. I was merely saying
  the costs of a power switch could be saved and used in actually innovating the design of Schiit's statement gear.
   
  And again, a power switch on the front is not innovative at all, it's been done before. Maybe you should choose your words more wisely.
   
  The circlotron topology in the Mjolnir is innovative because it was the first used in a headamp. Case in point.


----------



## Maxvla

Not just a front power switch, but one properly done. One that doesn't have AC going all over the case, as everyone else seems to do.

Didn't really intend to be mean, just that you were exhibiting selective reading as if some of my words were invisible.


----------



## eddiek997

I say put the toggle switch on the side.
   
  It could be like a wart on the left cheek of Scarlet Johansson.
   
   
  Personally, if there's a potential addition to my lovely Schiit, it would be a remote control. Discrete power on and off commands with a 12v trigger if you have an amp and dac, so that they'd both come on together.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Maybe it's time to just move on from the power switch location controversy? Schiit puts their switches on the back of their amps. Jason has explained why and stated unequivocally that said placement isn't gonna change. Sounds like the "debate" is over to me.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


>


 
   
  Yeah, baby!
   
  Now we're getting somewhere!
   
  Easy fuse access too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Eee Pee

An external on/off switch!  Brilliant!


----------



## DonaldLL

With all due respect to all who have far far more experience than I, I haven't gotten over my 'glow' yet on being a new Shiit owner so i haven't gotten to the point of thinking of switch location or the reason thereof. I am a newbie and all in a matter of 6 weeks I went from a Dragonfly and AKG 550 ---> DF and LCD2s ---> Lyr/Bifrost and LCD2s ---> Mjolnir/Gungnir and my LCD2s. I am very pleased with my Schiit and also quite impressed with the customer service that I have received from Schiit. I would say that I am a loyal Shiitster


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> An external on/off switch!  Brilliant!


 
  The "Old Sparky" model 6000


----------



## gefski

When it comes to inconvenience it looks like I can't get enough of it. Power switch on the back, line inputs on the front, and good old fashioned screw down speaker lugs on left and right sides. Hernia likely when it needs to be moved. Yet the Quicksilver remains my favorite amp for nearly 20 years. Reaching over the little Schiits for the power switch is a breeze. Aren't we lucky to be debating this stuff?


----------



## Maxvla

LOL @ your sign behind the amp. Use a transistor -> go to jail. That's the law!


----------



## gefski

Thanks, it's a fun bumpersticker from Vacuum Tube Valley. I think they're no longer with us since their founder Charlie Kittleson died in 2009.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Maybe it's time to just move on from the power switch location controversy? Schiit puts their switches on the back of their amps. Jason has explained why and stated unequivocally that said placement isn't gonna change. Sounds like the "debate" is over to me.


 
   
  Ok, but just hear me out. What if they put it ON THE TOP?!?!?! 
   
   
   
  But, I actually came here to see if Schiit has made any Statement statements since that one a few weeks ago. ???


----------



## swmtnbiker

I'm thinkin' buit-in wifi or Bluetooth and an iOS app for the switch.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I'm thinkin' buit-in wifi or Bluetooth and an iOS app for the switch.


 
  Might as well go whole hog and get a dap, dsp, and satelite dish built in, too.  Or a micorwave transmitter to beam your music accross the valley?


----------



## hodgjy

I'm just gonna hire a butler and have him change the volume and power according to my voice commands.
   
  Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Might as well go whole hog and get a dap, dsp, and satelite dish built in, too.  Or a micorwave transmitter to beam your music accross the valley?


----------



## Maxvla

Yeah, Jason, where's our voice recognition controls?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm just gonna hire a butler and have him change the volume and power according to my voice commands.


 
  Sweet!!  I think I'll opt for the French Maid version, though.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Sweet!!  I think I'll opt for the French Maid version, though.


 
   
   I like this guy.


----------



## MattTCG

So when is the A2 shipping. I'm dying to get some impressions!!


----------



## hodgjy

Some are supposedly going out this week.  Mine is slated to go out on Friday.
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> So when is the A2 shipping. I'm dying to get some impressions!!


----------



## Defiant00

By the end of this week I believe.


----------



## Iamnothim

My confirm said Friday.
But with a new product one never knows. 

If mine does ship Fri I should have it Mon/Tue since I'm in So Cal


----------



## Radioking59

This is from Jason in the Sponsor Announcements forum:
   
  "And Asgard 2 will be shipping shortly. We're giving them an extended burn-in to make sure the new thermal mount is 100% perfect. So far, it performs better than the original. We're just being over-cautious. I expect you'll see a lot of them out by the end of the week."


----------



## Makiah S

Ill Join, im soon to own a Modi Dac looking forward to it. Love the Price n the simple design


----------



## MattTCG

I got mine ordered this morning!! Hoping to still make it on the first shipment wave that goes out.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I got mine ordered this morning!! Hoping to still make it on the first shipment wave that goes out.


 
  what happened to waiting to read others impressions???
  well??
  what happened?


----------



## MattTCG

I...I...I...well, a few things that were up for sale, sold.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I...I...I...well, a few things that were up for sale, sold.


 
  Like we haven't heard that one before.


----------



## AbsoluteZero

Finally got my Bifrost!
   
  Decided to go with the Bifrost for the stack esthetics 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but have not heard much from it yet.
  Also could anyone give advice on my Bifrost & Asgard electrocuting me? Is it a faulty electrical connection and if so how do I get rid of the electrocuting? I know very little about home electricity.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> what happened to waiting to read others impressions???
> well??
> what happened?


 
   
  These are serious questions? On Head-fi?!?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I...I...I...well, a few things that were up for sale, sold.


 
   
  Sooo, you may be going SS Matt? If you like the A2 no more tube rolling! Consider carefully...


----------



## MickeyVee

Definitely waiting to hear A2 impression from Matt et al.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not going to replace the Lyr but compliment it.  Almost pulled the trigger on a used Asgard a couple of weeks ago.  Glad I hesitated!


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Definitely waiting to hear A2 impression from Matt et al..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I owned the original Asgard for quite a while and compared it extensively to the Lyr. Let's just say that IMO the A2 will have to step its game up quite a bit to best the tube goodness.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I owned the original Asgard for quite a while and compared it extensively to the Lyr. Let's just say that IMO the A2 will have to step its game up quite a bit to best the tube goodness.


 
  As a Lyr owner, I am trying once again to keep my expectations at a realistic level.  (I failed with the M&M)
  For my ears Asgard2 won't be a Lyr equal.  Personal Bias and everything else that goes along with it.  Perhaps I'll be surprised.
   
  That said, the niche that I think Asgard2 will fill for me is the gain switch for IEM's.  That opens up a brand new segment for me, as I've only owned Apple buds.
  I know nothing about IEM's other than a recommendation of the Vsonic GR07.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yup.. can't see moving see from the Bifrost/Lyr right now. Listening to Lindsay Stirling right now and am absolutely loving it! For the first time in years, I have no urge to upgrade, just maybe add a second system.
  Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> I owned the original Asgard for quite a while and compared it extensively to the Lyr. Let's just say that IMO the A2 will have to step its game up quite a bit to best the tube goodness.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> As a Lyr owner, I am trying once again to keep my expectations at a realistic level.  (I failed with the M&M)
> For my ears Asgard2 won't be a Lyr equal.  Personal Bias and everything else that goes along with it.  Perhaps I'll be surprised.
> 
> That said, the niche that I think Asgard2 will fill for me is the gain switch for IEM's.  That opens up a brand new segment for me, as I've only owned Apple buds.
> I know nothing about IEM's other than a recommendation of the Vsonic GR07.


 
   
  It's always fun to play with new gear. After all, that's a big part of what this hobby is all about.


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Yup.. can't see moving see from the Bifrost/Lyr right now. Listening to Lindsay Stirling right now and am absolutely loving it! For the fir time in years, I have no urge to upgrade, just maybe add a second system.


 
   
  Never say never...


----------



## MattTCG

I don't expect the a2 to match the lyr. It's not a fair fight considering the a2 is almost half the price...not even considering after market tubes. For me, it's all about bang for the buck and features with the a2. 

I'm hoping to be surprised by the performance of the a2. Maybe the trickle down tech from the mojo will make this amp something truly special. I have high hopes but they are tempered with realistic expectations. 

Only time will tell.


----------



## MattTCG

I don't expect the a2 to match the lyr. It's not a fair fight considering the a2 is almost half the price...not even considering after market tubes. For me, it's all about bang for the buck and features with the a2. 

I'm hoping to be surprised by the performance of the a2. Maybe the trickle down tech from the mojo will make this amp something truly special. I have high hopes but they are tempered with realistic expectations. 

Only time will tell.


----------



## jronan2

Is anyone getting the A2 that previously had the A1 for some quick impressions. Personally that is what I'm looking forward to, the people that already had the original asgard, to really see if the A2 is a difference maker. I'm really considering get the A2 to hold me off until the statement stuff arrives.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Yup.. can't see moving see from the Bifrost/Lyr right now. Listening to Lindsay Stirling right now and am absolutely loving it! For the first time in years, I have no urge to upgrade, just maybe add a second system.


 
  I agree.
  The Lyr is a corner stone for me too.
   
  This is that "extra" system in another part of the house.  I tried the M/M in that role but I was repelled.
  Perhaps I'll be able to enjoy the Asgard2/Bifrost.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I agree.
> The Lyr is a corner stone for me too.
> 
> This is that "extra" system in another part of the house.  I tried the M/M in that role but I was repelled.
> Perhaps I'll be able to enjoy the Asgard2/Bifrost.


 
  I am looking forward to hear from you. I have A1/Bifrost and looking to buy A2/Modi. Jason recommends M/M is a better pairing though.


----------



## korzena

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Yup.. can't see moving see from the Bifrost/Lyr right now. Listening to Lindsay Stirling right now and am absolutely loving it! For the first time in years, I have no urge to upgrade, just maybe add a second system.


 
  Especially at its price, there is no urge to upgrade which is a nice thing.


----------



## Makiah S

swmtnbiker said:


> Never say never...




Indeed, constant upgrades make this hobby fun !

So I'm now debating on buying a schiit Modi... or a JDS Labs ODAC... the JDS Labs ODAC JUST got like $20 cheaper than it was :O... cmon guys convince me :3 why should I buy Schiit Modi xD [I do like it's bigger USB in xD]


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Just wondering, what USB cables are you fellows using with your Bifrost? I thought it would come with one, but I guess not.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what USB cables are you fellows using with your Bifrost? I thought it would come with one, but I guess not.


 
  i actually also thought the same thing. and i too want to ask the same question.


----------



## Iamnothim

You actually ordered USB ?


----------



## Iamnothim

Just kidding.......
  Pretend that comment doesn't exist.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Also, is it possible to get the windows volume bar (bottom right) to work with the bifrost?


----------



## MickeyVee

Audioquest Cinnamon (USB & Optical) - Forest is cheaper and probably just as good.
  Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what USB cables are you fellows using with your Bifrost? I thought it would come with one, but I guess not.


----------



## Iamnothim

I like this right angle adapter for my MacBook Pro.
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002J24OO/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Audioquest Cinnamon (USB & Optical) - Forest is cheaper and probably just as good.


 
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what USB cables are you fellows using with your Bifrost? I thought it would come with one, but I guess not.


 
  I have the Bifrost with the USB. Since my music source is the Macbook Air, I use the USB out of the Air into the USB in the Bifrost with a USB male A female B cable. I sent an email to Jason asking him if I should use an adapter that takes the USB out into the optical in of the Bifrost. He said that the cleanest way to do it was to use the USB A B cable.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what USB cables are you fellows using with your Bifrost? I thought it would come with one, but I guess not.


 
   
  Monoprice.
   
   


oicwutudidthar said:


> Also, is it possible to get the windows volume bar (bottom right) to work with the bifrost?


 

   
  In Windows 7 at least it worked just fine for me through USB.


----------



## Sniperbombers

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Monoprice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  about the monoprice comment. i don't know if i was blind or not but i really couldn't find one compatible


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





sniperbombers said:


> about the monoprice comment. i don't know if i was blind or not but i really couldn't find one compatible


 
   
  They have them. You need an A Male to a B Male. They are the first ones listed.
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10303


----------



## scottv50

oicwutudidthar said:


> Just wondering, what USB cables are you fellows using with your Bifrost? I thought it would come with one, but I guess not.




Was using a Furutech ADL Formula 2-B but have since switched to Optical.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





scottv50 said:


> Was using a Furutech ADL Formula 2-B but have since switched to Optical.


 
  +1 Optical


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Is using the onboard optical output off of a desktop motherboard (some realktek chip) > bifrost > amp better then going Usb from computer>bifrost>amp sound quality wise?


----------



## eddiek997

No. The opposite will be true.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Really? On the schiit site is refers USB to mcdonalds hamburgers. They seem to think optical is superior?
   
  edit-
   
  Most modern high end motherboards use the Realtek AL892
   
  http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=284
   
  Wouldn't digital transferring mediums sound the same on any pretty much anything anyway as long as the out going bit rate is supported? A 1 is a 1 and a 0 is a 0


----------



## Iamnothim

Gotta give my opinion.... and Schiit's on Optical.
http://schiit.com/schiit-faq/about-bifrost/
   
  See:  "*Wait. Are you saying USB is crap?"*
   
   
  Optical is dielectric, hence no EMI issues.
  Ok, It's only 96kHz  (On a Mac)  As much as I love HD Tracks you are not going to hear a difference at those sample rates.


----------



## eddiek997

Jitter us the enemy. Not so much emi when using optical. 
USB on asynchronous dac will sound better.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Jitter us the enemy. Not so much emi when using optical.
> USB on asynchronous dac will sound better.


 
  To each their own.
  I prefer optical.  I'm running at 96kHz and I don't have a jitter issue.
  I had a DM+ with USB2 async and the interface was fragile.
   
  I think it depends on the quality of the clocks in the devices.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

*Well then, how about your USB? Is it fully buzzword compliant? 24/192? Async?*
 It is absolutely buzzword compliant! Not only is it USB async, but it’s USB 2.0 async that’ll do up to 24 bits/192 kHz sampling rates. Yes. USB 2.0. Not antique 1.1. It works without drivers on Mac and we provide drivers for Windows 8, 7, Vista, and XP. It’s a good-sounding, reliable, solid implementation of USB. But that’s like saying, “Well, its a very nice meal, given that the chef could only work with McDonald’s hamburgers.”*

 *Wait. Are you saying USB is crap?*
 We’re saying we put a ton of time into our USB implementation, but, to our ears, USB still doesn’t quite offer the performance of SPDIF. And we can even get into shades of gray on SPDIF too: consider Mike Moffat’s AT&T ST-optical interfaces and Sumo’s Axiom/Theorem transport and D/A, which had a separate low-jitter master clock connection from the transport.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Is using the onboard optical output off of a desktop motherboard (some realktek chip) > bifrost > amp better then going Usb from computer>bifrost>amp sound quality wise?


 
  Bottom line.  Try both.
  I ordered both of my Bifrost's w/o USB and I'm very happy.


----------



## paradoxper

I also prefer optical and feel USB needs a good converter to sound good.


----------



## Iamnothim

Just looked at the Realtech chip.
  It sounds great.  
  It speaks to my comments about clocks.
  The Realteck chipset is specifically for clocking audio.  Use it.


----------



## hodgjy

The issue with using optical out on Macs is the sound still goes through the sound card first.  USB bypasses that giving a more direct line to the external DAC.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The issue with using optical out on Macs is the sound still goes through the sound card first.  USB bypasses that giving a more direct line to the external DAC.


 
  I don't have any issues using optical out on my Mac.  It works great.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> *The issue with* *using optical out on Macs is the sound still goes through the sound card first*.  USB bypasses that giving a more direct line to the external DAC.


 
  Really?...


----------



## eddiek997

That's the whole thing with this hobby of ours... most of the time that which is deemed 'better' is the subjective opinion of another person.
   
  In my experience, any time I can bypass the internal workings/extra processing of the circuitry the better it will sound. USB bypasses all of that and, with the correct sync capabilities will affect (for better or worse) the intended signal less.
   
  Again, subjective logic and opinion..... and the only way to find out is to listen with your own ears.
   
  Don't forget to sit back and listen. Turn off the forum. Turn off the news. Turn off the world, just sit back, listen and enjoy


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> That's the whole thing with this hobby of ours... most of the time that which is deemed 'better' is the subjective opinion of another person.
> 
> In my experience, any time I can bypass the internal workings/extra processing of the circuitry the better it will sound. USB bypasses all of that and, with the correct sync capabilities will affect (for better or worse) the intended signal less.
> 
> ...


 
  +1
  (the music part)


----------



## paradoxper

What I don't understand is using optical the sound goes through the soundcard first on a mac.
  Which implies a more degraded sound than directly through USB.
   
  I do understand that toslink is the direct signal from the soundcard, however the use with a ext DAC results in a a reclock.
  Which kind of negates the whole optical goes through soundcard first compard to USB. At least that's how I understand it.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> What I don't understand is using optical the sound goes through the soundcard first on a mac.
> Which implies a more degraded sound than directly through USB.
> 
> I do understand that toslink is the direct signal from the soundcard, however the use with a ext DAC results in a a reclock.
> Which kind of negates the whole optical goes through soundcard first compard to USB. At least that's how I understand it.


 

 The way I understand it is that the DAC (asynchronous) takes charge of the communications between the Dac and the Processor minimizing or eliminating jitter. Resulting in the purest transfer of the digital signal from stored bits to the chip thats going to convert those bits to analog.
  Toslink is merely the means of transporting the digital bits from soundcard to Analog converter chip. Optical is light and not subject to ground noise but light can be affected by other interference.
   
  HOWEVER, I am in no way qualified to argue the point against Jason or Mr Moffatt. They know better than me.
   
  Particle Physics gives me a Hadron.
   
  Just saying


----------



## hodgjy

Jitter is real.  It can be measured.  The real debate is over whether or not people can actually hear the effects of jitter.  This is a hot debate.


----------



## MattTCG

Jitter almost ruined me for hp's completely. I fought with it for months and then finally decided to bite the bullet and buy the non-usb bifrost and the jitter was gone.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Jitter almost ruined me for hp's completely. I fought with it for months and then finally decided to bite the bullet and buy the non-usb bifrost and the jitter was gone.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> The way I understand it is that the DAC (asynchronous) takes charge of the communications between the Dac and the Processor minimizing or eliminating jitter. Resulting in the purest transfer of the digital signal from stored bits to the chip thats going to convert those bits to analog.
> Toslink is merely the means of transporting the digital bits from soundcard to Analog converter chip. Optical is light and not subject to ground noise but light can be affected by other interference.
> 
> HOWEVER, I am in no way qualified to argue the point against Jason or Mr Moffatt. They know better than me.
> ...


 
  I acknowledge that a big part comes down to implementation when it comes to USB vs optical. And IME most USB implementations
  lack behind and sound significantly better with a converter.
   
  The only contrary experience I've had is while using the PWD2, its USB implementation was quite a bit better than optical.
   
  It's either the argument of optical more prone to jitter and bandwidth limitation.
   
  USB disadvantages prone to electrical interference, required drivers.
   
  I couldn't pretend to tell you why I ever prefer optical over USB. It simply sounds better (most of the time.)
   
  With regards to jitter, I believe it exist, I however don't feel it's a audible problem in most applications.


----------



## Maxvla

My motherboard uses the ALC892 and I just recently discovered it's been the cause of a nagging ringing/resonance sound in the treble region that I always thought was part of recordings. I ordered my Gungnir without USB so I only have optical and coaxial, which my motherboard has both, unfortunately both have the sound.

I would make sure your motherboard sound is good before you order without USB. Or plan to use it through a player/tablet like I'm forced to do now. I'll live with it for TV episodes and movies, youtube, etc I watch on my computer, but music I'm using my cd transport now. My next DAC will be USB so I can restore my computer audio system. I could get Jason to send me the USB card, but I'll be trying some other DACs soon, including the Matrix X-Sabre and eventually the statement Schiit, so I can deal with it.


----------



## Iamnothim




----------



## MickeyVee

I don't claim to know much about the technology behind Optical and USB, just what sounds good to me.
  My setup is a 2012 MacMini i7 running Audirvana with iTunes integration. I have the Audioquest Cinnamon USB and Optical cables going into the Bifrost > lyr with Amperex 1969 Orange Globe tubes. Here are my observations over a number of tracks covering iTunes downloads to Apple Lossless CD rips to 24/96 downloads from HD Tracks:

 Optical seems to be more detailed, airy, slightly better high end extension and has a great soundstage but I'm getting some micro-distortions at times that are driving me crazy.
 USB is smooth as silk but not as airy and has a smaller soundstage (but still pretty good).
 Bass on both is amazing.
  I really have to listen to hear the differences and could easily live with either.  To be honest, I'm not sure I could tell the difference in a blind test. I got the USB Bifrost to use with my MacBookAir at meets. BTW, I mostly use the Optical.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ What hp's did you make those observations with...just curious if it is the hd700.


----------



## MickeyVee

Yes.. the HD700. They're pretty revealing.
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ What hp's did you make those observations with...just curious if it is the hd700.


----------



## MattTCG

I'd love to hear them and the hd800 some time. Both are way out of my price range though. I'll have to keep the love for my hd650.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I don't claim to know much about the technology behind Optical and USB, just what sounds good to me.
> My setup is a 2012 MacMini i7 running Audirvana with iTunes integration. I have the Audioquest Cinnamon USB and Optical cables going into the Bifrost > lyr with Amperex 1969 Orange Globe tubes. Here are my observations over a number of tracks covering iTunes downloads to Apple Lossless CD rips to 24/96 downloads from HD Tracks:
> 
> Optical seems to be more detailed, airy, slightly better high end extension and has a great soundstage but I'm getting some micro-distortions at times that are driving me crazy.
> ...


 
  Mic,
  That's exactly how it's done !
  Give XLD a try as your import / ripping application.


----------



## MickeyVee

Thanks.  I use XLD to covert HD Tracks 24/96 to for iTunes use. Never though of ripping with it.  Next CD, I'll give it a try.  Actually have the 'Ray' soundtrack coming in.. yeah, I know, a little behind the times.
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Mic,
> That's exactly how it's done !
> Give XLD a try as your import / ripping application.


----------



## Makiah S

man you guys need USB 3.o... shut up and stop complaining jk i would like to use spdif actually


----------



## MickeyVee

Actually, my MacMini is USB 3.0. What's the difference for audio between 2 and 3? The Bifrost is true USB 2.
  Quote: 





mshenay said:


> man you guys need USB 3.o... shut up and stop complaining jk i would like to use spdif actually


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Thanks.  I use XLD to covert HD Tracks 24/96 to for iTunes use. Never though of ripping with it.  Next CD, I'll give it a try.  Actually have the 'Ray' soundtrack coming in.. yeah, I know, a little behind the times.


 
  yo Mic,
  Something in a dropbox to hold you over tile Ray


----------



## Iamnothim

Did anyone get a "Your Asgard 2 has shipped." email?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ uhm...nope.


----------



## bearFNF

^^^^ Nope...


----------



## Iamnothim

Excellent.
  I don't feel bad.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm willing to be a whole lot of them go out on Monday.  Jason said he was giving them an extended burn in for testing purposes.  I bet they assemble as many as they can this weekend, box them up, and then ship them out on Monday.  Remember, they have a lot of backorders to fill and probably need to keep their distributors happy as well.  All new orders will go out after they honor those previous commitments.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Could anyone using a BiFrost using USB w/ latest driver help confirm this for me?
   
  Is it not possible to control the volume using the universal windows volume control in the bottom right? For some reason, if  I go in to the mixer option, I am able control individual volume levels on a per application basis but not the overall windows volume, its very weird. I am running windows 7 64.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Could anyone using a BiFrost using USB w/ latest driver help confirm this for me?
> 
> Is it not possible to control the volume using the universal windows volume control in the bottom right? For some reason, if  I go in to the mixer option, I am able control individual volume levels on a per application basis but not the overall windows volume, its very weird. I am running windows 7 64.


 
   
  It's working for me. And pretty sure I'm using the current driver.
   
  How's your volume control set? If you right click on it, and select "Volume control options,"  you can select it to control either "All devices currently playing sound" or "The default communication device." Mine is set to control all devices currently playing sound.
   

   
   
  se


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> It's working for me. And pretty sure I'm using the current driver.
> 
> How's your volume control set? If you right click on it, and select "Volume control options,"  you can select it to control either "All devices currently playing sound" or "The default communication device." Mine is set to control all devices currently playing sound.
> 
> se


 
   
  Mine is on "All devices currently playing sound". I can literally adjust the volume all the way up to the bottom, all the way down to the bottom, mute etc. and nothing happens. However, if I right click it and then go into the mixer option and control the volume of individual applications (browser, windows system sounds, etc) then it works just fine.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Weird. What's your source? I tried it with iTunes and WinAmp. However Audacity only outputs through my laptop's speakers, no output on USB. Probably some setting in Audacity I need to change.
   
  Wish I had an answer for you.
   
  se


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Using USB as source, just tried it on a windows 8 64bit and have same problem. I really don't have any clue what the problem is, the visual sound indicator moves when audio is being played but the slider does nothing.
   
  -edit what amp are you using? I'm using a Lyr.
   
  -edit
   
  Just noticed yours says "USB 2.0 True High Speed Audio", mines says "2- Schiit USB interface"
   
  Are you using the drivers from schiit.com/drivers/?


----------



## paradoxper

You should just reinstall the drives and see what fix that yields.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Already tried, didn't do anything.


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Already tried, didn't do anything.


 
   
  Isn't that normal? The driver is ASIO, which can bypass Windows volume (if I'm remembering correctly). Mine is behaving like yours too.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Well, I got a reponse from Jason and he told me "Yes, our drivers disable Windows volume for bitperfect output. You should be able to adjust volume in your player, like Foobar or Jriver." 
   
So I guess it is normal then.


----------



## DenonBeaver

I've got an issue with my schiit asgard/bifrost usb set up that i haven't seen addressed. My HP Elitebook runs USB 2.0 and 3.0. When I try connecting to USB 3.0 I get a ton of static and interference. I was under the impression that USB 3.0 was backwards compatible so I'm not sure why this occurs.


----------



## Makiah S

Eww, don't tell me that lol. I do have usb 2... Thankfully



denonbeaver said:


> I've got an issue with my schiit asgard/bifrost usb set up that i haven't seen addressed. My HP Elitebook runs USB 2.0 and 3.0. When I try connecting to USB 3.0 I get a ton of static and interference. I was under the impression that USB 3.0 was backwards compatible so I'm not sure why this occurs.


----------



## Deathdeisel

Quote: 





denonbeaver said:


> I've got an issue with my schiit asgard/bifrost usb set up that i haven't seen addressed. My HP Elitebook runs USB 2.0 and 3.0. When I try connecting to USB 3.0 I get a ton of static and interference. I was under the impression that USB 3.0 was backwards compatible so I'm not sure why this occurs.


 
  Is the bifrost set up for 3.0? If not it may be an issue of recieving too much voltage, as 3.0 uses double from 2.0 to my knowledge.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





denonbeaver said:


> I've got an issue with my schiit asgard/bifrost usb set up that i haven't seen addressed. My HP Elitebook runs USB 2.0 and 3.0. When I try connecting to USB 3.0 I get a ton of static and interference. I was under the impression that USB 3.0 was backwards compatible so I'm not sure why this occurs.


 
  There are definite specifications for usb2 and usb3, the bifrost was built to 2.0 specs and you probably don't want to hear this but you should only use the 2.0 ports.
   
  I realise that I didn't give you a exact reason as to why 3.0 port elicits the noise on the Bifrost but I'm sure that the problem lies with the way the 3.0 controller handles power assignment and concurrent communications. Perhaps in the future, there'll be a driver update from Schiit for 3.0 issues.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





mikenike said:


> Isn't that normal? The driver is ASIO, which can bypass Windows volume (if I'm remembering correctly). Mine is behaving like yours too.


 
  What's a driver?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> What's a driver?


 
  So smug.


----------



## MickeyVee

No problem with the Bifrost using my MacMini USB 3.0 ports. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> There are definite specifications for usb2 and usb3, the bifrost was built to 2.0 specs and you probably don't want to hear this but you should only use the 2.0 ports.
> 
> I realise that I didn't give you a exact reason as to why 3.0 port elicits the noise on the Bifrost but I'm sure that the problem lies with the way the 3.0 controller handles power assignment and concurrent communications. Perhaps in the future, there'll be a driver update from Schiit for 3.0 issues.


----------



## Makiah S

paradoxper said:


> So smug.


 Lawl xD


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> What's a driver?


 
   
  Indeed. LOL.
   
  I'll be getting a computer of a pomaceous identity within the year. =D


----------



## cthchung

I love my Lyr, if I had not bought a Burson HA160 I would have been very happy with the purchase. Definitely the greatest option in that price range.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

cthchung said:


> I love my Lyr, if I had not bought a Burson HA160 I would have been very happy with the purchase. Definitely the greatest option in that price range.


​
Bifrost lyr vs essence one muses?


----------



## Makiah S

I'll b getting a used odac soon  [monday actually]


----------



## Iamnothim

I received the shipping confirmation for my Asgard2


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I received the shipping confirmation for my Asgard2


 
  oh come on...I thought you receieved the unit...NOT confirmation!!


----------



## toschek

Happy Lyr owner here, Bifrost on it's way too.
   
  Jason & Co. make some great Schiit.   Even Clay Davis thinks so:


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Happy Lyr owner here, Bifrost on it's way too.
> 
> Jason & Co. make some great Schiit.   Even Clay Davis thinks so:
> 
> ...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> oh come on...I thought you receieved the unit...NOT confirmation!!


 
  Might arrive tomorrow. It was sent FedEx and Schiit is 85 miles to the north.


----------



## disastermouse

iostream said:


> Got my schiit today.  I am impressed. Going to leave them on overnight to settle in, but initial listening was great.  I will report a bit more once I have had some time with the setup.  At this point I think my setup might stay as is for a while.  The K701s sound great with this schiit, and I am not sure I can start justify dropping $700 on the HE-500s.



Look for them used. I got them from Amazon Warehouse with 'cosmetic defect'. The defect consisted of two scratches on the metal headband so small that I couldn't find them. My roommate had to point them out. I think I paid $520 for them.


----------



## disastermouse

Also, I'm dipping my toes into the Schiit with a Magni. It hasn't Schiiped yet, though.


----------



## Maxvla

iamnothim said:


> Might arrive tomorrow. It was sent FedEx and Schiit is 85 miles to the north.



If I lived that close I think I'd be asking if I could pick it up!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> If I lived that close I think I'd be asking if I could pick it up!


 
  Los Angeles  80mi = 280mi


----------



## Maxvla

Hm.. that is true. You would get there almost as fast as Fedex could deliver it. They don't play fair though, since they have planes.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Thanks. _* I use XLD to covert HD Tracks 24/96 to for iTunes use.*_ Never though of ripping with it.  Next CD, I'll give it a try.  Actually have the 'Ray' soundtrack coming in.. yeah, I know, a little behind the times.


 
   
   





   
  Thanks for the tip! I'd been stumped trying to put Hi-Def AIFFs on my iPod - Did not know for sure if it was the bit-rate ... or what to do about it really. So I converted the 24/96 HD Tracks to 16/44.1 ALC using _XLD_.


----------



## toschek

Anyone have a recommendation for an affordable two channel amp that would pair well with the Lyr as a preamp? I'd like to hook up some bookshelves to it, maybe even a pair of Mythos ST


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for an affordable two channel amp that would pair well with the Lyr as a preamp? I'd like to hook up some bookshelves to it, maybe even a pair of Mythos ST


 
  Not sure what price/power range you want, but the Emotiva a100 is a great little amp. 50wpc. I have one driving some bookshelf speakers. It's very clean. Retail is $219.


----------



## hodgjy

The Emotiva is well liked.  In fact, several users use the speaker taps to drive their HE-6, HE-5, and HE-500.  
   
  If you want to preserve some of the tube goodness from the Lyr, a T-amp would be a nice choice.  You can get a premium one from Virtue Audio, or a very nice one from KingRex, or a wide variety of ones from ebay.  The thing about most T-amps is they are cheap and usually sound very, very good.
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for an affordable two channel amp that would pair well with the Lyr as a preamp? I'd like to hook up some bookshelves to it, maybe even a pair of Mythos ST


 
   
  Quote: 





rwelles said:


> Not sure what price/power range you want, but the Emotiva a100 is a great little amp. 50wpc. I have one driving some bookshelf speakers. It's very clean. Retail is $219.


----------



## ilikepooters

I bought a Lyr and i'm very impressed with it, i've only used the stock tubes so far but have some others on the way.
   
  My HE5-LE's sounded very thin before out of my Maverick D1, now they sound very full and the bass has more presence.
   
  It was like going from a skinny g/f with an eating disorder to dating Nigella Lawson with those amazing curves


----------



## Iamnothim

My Asgard2 is "on vehicle for delivery"


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Anyone have a recommendation for an affordable two channel amp that would pair well with the Lyr as a preamp? I'd like to hook up some bookshelves to it, maybe even a pair of Mythos ST


 
   
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Emotiva is well liked.  In fact, several users use the speaker taps to drive their HE-6, HE-5, and HE-500.
> 
> If you want to preserve some of the tube goodness from the Lyr, a T-amp would be a nice choice.  You can get a premium one from Virtue Audio, or a very nice one from KingRex, or a wide variety of ones from ebay.  The thing about most T-amps is they are cheap and usually sound very, very good.


 
   
  Emotiva is a really great amp. I'm the first one that purchased one on head-fi for the HE-6 and it has spread throughout for other headphones as well. Someone actually went through and hooked up all kinds of headphones (Q701, Beyer T1, LCD2).
   
  I had a virtue and was disappointed with it for the HE-6. I think the Emotiva is a clear win over the virtue audio amplifier (Two.2). Plus you'll find it hard to get the virtue, since most the amps are discontinued.


----------



## toschek

OK, which Emotiva to try? The mini-x A-100? Never mind I see it now ...

BTW does anyone know when the "statement" amp/DAC is due out? I saw rumors that it might be tube based or that you'd have a choice between tubes/solid state?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My Asgard2 is "on vehicle for delivery"


 

 Man, Sure living in Cali delivers quicker than Kansas!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Man, Sure living in Cali delivers quicker than Kansas!


 
  But you have Toto


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> But you have Toto


 

 what's Toto?


----------



## swmtnbiker

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> what's Toto?


 
   
  Dorothy's dog from The Wizard of Oz. You know, "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more..."


----------



## Iamnothim

Thankfully, Toto made it home


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





swmtnbiker said:


> Dorothy's dog from The Wizard of Oz. You know, "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more..."


 

 OHHHHHHH,, DuH!  WOW BiGGEST JOKE!! LOL!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  MAN I"M dyING!!! Stop IT!!!!!!!!!! OHHHHH.....MAN STOP!


----------



## gmahler2u

ok. toto made home safely.
   
  somewhere over the rainbow....


----------



## Iamnothim

Well... the boxes arrived.
  Have to get around to opening them.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Well... the boxes arrived.
> Have to get around to opening them.


 

 Ok...Dont wait JUst Open it Please!!


----------



## Makiah S

ilikepooters said:


> I bought a Lyr and i'm very impressed with it, i've only used the stock tubes so far but have some others on the way.
> 
> My HE5-LE's sounded very thin before out of my Maverick D1, now they sound very full and the bass has more presence.
> 
> It was like going from a skinny g/f with an eating disorder to dating Nigella Lawson with those amazing curves




XD. Thats my favorite b4 N AFTER yet. Lol very nice. I hope my odac will fill out my dt 880s


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> It was like going from a skinny g/f with an eating disorder to dating Nigella Lawson with those amazing curves


 
   
  Agreed, she is easy on the eye and she has a lovely voice.
  I can often be found ogling her tubes.


----------



## Makiah S

eddiek997 said:


> Agreed, she is easy on the eye and she has a lovely voice.
> I can often be found ogling her tubes.


 Lawl, i like that. Good tubes r like a, nice curvy warm voiced goddess


----------



## Iamnothim

getting there..


----------



## Makiah S

Oooh what's that


----------



## gmahler2u

That's it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> getting there..


----------



## Makiah S

gmahler2u said:


> That's it? :mad:




What is it... My phone is to small... Can't c much


----------



## Iamnothim

A2


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> What is it... My phone is to small... Can't c much


 

 it's tooooooo small, I can't see....


----------



## Makiah S

gmahler2u said:


> it's tooooooo small, I can't see....


 Indeed so that's the asgaurd 2


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Indeed so that's the asgaurd 2


 

 OH...I C.
   
  Thank you


----------



## Makiah S

gmahler2u said:


> OH...I C.
> 
> Thank you


 Looks nice, there a tube in there


----------



## Makiah S

Opps


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Opps


 

 HAHAHA...not a chance in Asgard line.


----------



## hodgjy

Now that there are some Asgard 2s in the wild, would anyone care to post their initial sound impressions?


----------



## Defiant00

toschek said:


> BTW does anyone know when the "statement" amp/DAC is due out? I saw rumors that it might be tube based or that you'd have a choice between tubes/solid state?




Later this year, and yes, you'll have a choice of hybrid or all solid state.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Later this year, and yes, you'll have a choice of hybrid or all solid state.


 
   
  Was there any mention of the tubes used in the hybrid option?  6dj8/e88cc again?  I sure hope not 6c45.


----------



## Defiant00

toschek said:


> Was there any mention of the tubes used in the hybrid option?  6dj8/e88cc again?  I sure hope not 6c45.




I don't believe so, or I might have just missed it.


----------



## hodgjy

The 6C45P is a lovely tube. What don't you like about it? It's the driver tube for my Trafomatic, which I think is a magnificent amp. 



toschek said:


> Was there any mention of the tubes used in the hybrid option?  6dj8/e88cc again?  I sure hope not 6c45.


----------



## toschek

It's a great tube, there's not just a lot of rolling options is all I mean.


----------



## toschek

I think there's like two affordable ones and then the NOS options are like $600 - $2000?


----------



## hodgjy

You are right--not many rolling options.  But, the Reflektors sure are nice, and fairly cheap.
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> It's a great tube, there's not just a lot of rolling options is all I mean.


----------



## Iamnothim

Asgard2 / Bifrost
  Straight to the point.
  Much better than Magni/Modi
  A long way to go to Lyr / Bifrost
   
  Very clear.
  Musical
  But I'm missing the soundstage that I get with my glass.
  Crisp bass but overlapping
   
  more....
   
  ordinary....pedestrian


----------



## Iamnothim

Well.... change that.
  I noticed it's a Lot Better when I set the core audio to 96kHz
   
  gee
   
  EDIT:   Very nice but still clinical.   That said, much more musical then the Magni.  How much of that is attributed to the Bifrost, I don't know.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Well.... change that.
> I noticed it's a Lot Better when I set the core audio to 96kHz
> 
> gee
> ...


 

 give it a couple days, you can change you mind!  we forgive you!!


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> give it a couple days, you can change you mind!  we forgive you!!


 
  I'm afraid, once I went glass, there's no going back.
  Mozart Violin Concerto n. 4 in D major (KV 218) Allegro
  Asgard2: I hear beautiful music
  Lyr w/ E188CC 1965 glass:  The bow pulls me across the strings.


----------



## Randolph Duke

Just received Magni/Modi combo.
Will I sacrifice any quality by not using the Modi power supply?

(The light is super bright and it stays on if I use the wall plug.)


----------



## Iamnothim

The Modi doesn't have a power supply.  It is powered by the USB


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





randolph duke said:


> Just received Magni/Modi combo.
> Will I sacrifice any quality by not using the Modi power supply?
> 
> (The light is super bright and it stays on if I use the wall plug.)


 
  Also the Magni power supply is 16V  "AC"
  You wou't have an equivalent PS.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I'm afraid, once I went glass, there's no going back.
> Mozart Violin Concerto n. 4 in D major (KV 218) Allegro
> Asgard2: I hear beautiful music
> Lyr w/ E188CC 1965 glass:  The bow pulls me across the strings.


 

 Yes, You won I'll get that recording...Lyr When you see my signature. you see...
  now I'm broke...


----------



## fox350z

Hello everyone today i got my lyr amp that i bought from another member here, the amp work wonderfully with my headphones. I have a question though, after putting the tubes in and listening to music for a while I noticed that one of the tubes glows stronger than the other. Is this going to be a problem or is it normal? thanks


----------



## toschek

defiant00 said:


> I don't believe so, or I might have just missed it.




Thanks for the info. Are there any other threads tracking the statement, or any idea when they'll give details? I haven't been following Schiit for too long so I don't know how far in advance they drop details on upcoming products or if they tend to be announced suddenly. I'd love to know how much of my beer money I should be tucking away too :wink_face: I'm assuming it'll be in the 1500-2000 range right now. Here's hoping it isn't balanced only so I can connect a turntable via a phono pre-amp.


----------



## Maxvla

Current plan seems to be June-August release for both.


----------



## toschek

Both meaning ??  Are you saying the tube and solid state versions will both be out mid to late summer 2013 or is there a separate "statement" DAC and "statement" amp or will this one be an integrated "statement"?   I love the idea of an integrated that can be upgraded with a new DAC section as technology improves, that is really cool.


----------



## Maxvla

I mean both as in the DAC and the amp (separate devices). Technically it's three as the amp comes either fully SS or hybrid.


----------



## toschek

Is it to be an end-to-end balanced only affair like gungnir/mjolnir as far as rumors go? I guess I can get a balanced cable if I have to, just concerned about not being able to use my turntable with it (without conversion).


----------



## kothganesh

I was planning to get the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo. Guess I should wait for this then.


----------



## Maxvla

toschek said:


> Is it to be an end-to-end balanced only affair like gungnir/mjolnir as far as rumors go? I guess I can get a balanced cable if I have to, just concerned about not being able to use my turntable with it (without conversion).



No, the statement amps should output unbalanced as well. It will have speaker taps as well.



kothganesh said:


> I was planning to get the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo. Guess I should wait for this then.



Depends on your budget. Statement pair is expected to be around $1500 each component, or twice as much as the former.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Current plan seems to be June-August release for both.


 
  I just got done asking Jason about this. I love his concise but always seemingly ambiguous replies.
   
Summer = until September 21. Later = later.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/960#post_9041587


----------



## hodgjy

I've head several tube amps over the years, and it's quite common that two tubes glow with different intensities.  It's only a problem if you have a channel volume imbalance.  If you don't, enjoy the amp.  If you do, it can usually be fixed by buying a set of fresh tubes.
   
  Quote: 





fox350z said:


> Hello everyone today i got my lyr amp that i bought from another member here, the amp work wonderfully with my headphones. I have a question though, after putting the tubes in and listening to music for a while I noticed that one of the tubes glows stronger than the other. Is this going to be a problem or is it normal? thanks


----------



## Randolph Duke

iamnothim said:


> Also the Magni power supply is 16V  "AC"
> You wou't have an equivalent PS.




Sorry- I meant the power cord to the Magni.
But my question- more specifically- is how do you power down the Modi so the light goes off?


----------



## Iamnothim

randolph duke said:


> Sorry- I meant the power cord to the Magni.
> But my question- more specifically- is how do you power down the Modi so the light goes off?



As long as the USB port is energized the Modi will be powered up.


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

I jumped on the Schiit wagon today. After spending the better part of this week dreaming about and pondering amps, I placed an order for a Magni. I was going to order the Modi with it but I'm going to hold off on that for a while. I will have a FiiO E07K to use as a DAC in the meantime. 

It was hard picking between the Magni and the Asgard 2 but I think I'll be happy with these results at a fraction of the price. Picking apart subtle differences between gear isn't my strong suit so it was hard to justify spending the extra $150. Not that I doubt the quality of the Asgard in any way. 

Now I have to play the waiting game.


----------



## Iamnothim

I want to use the A2's at my desk with my Schiit Asgard2 /Bifrost or Lyr/Bifrost combo.
  I listen with LCD2's
   
  I just want a little something for my work desk and I can move either combo to my desk without too much fuss.
   
  The A2's are right in my price range for this function but I don't want junk.
   
  I've read the thread and they seem to be well received.
  Any change in that opinion?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Iamnothim

I'm looking for some little speakers for my work desk.  I can move either my Asgard2 /Bifrost or Lyr/Bifrost combo there easily to hookup.
  
 I found these:
  
 http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-A2
  
 There's a HF thread that likes them, but it's not too deep.
  
 The A2's are right in my price range for this function but I don't want junk.
 Anyone have experience with these and Schiit gear?
  
 Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

Audioengine makes great speakers for the price.


----------



## Iamnothim

​


hodgjy said:


> Audioengine makes great speakers for the price.




Thanks Hodgjy,

Ever hear them with Schiit gear?
They should go nicely and provide a little "desk music"

You know, above the speakers built into my Mac Monitor


----------



## hodgjy

I have not.  When my A2 comes in, I'm giving a long look at the A5+ speakers.
   
  Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks Hodgjy,
> 
> Ever hear them with Schiit gear?
> They should go nicely and provide a little "desk music"
> ...


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have not.  When my A2 comes in, I'm giving a long look at the A5+ speakers.


 
  The Reviewer that started the A2 thread said he liked it more than the A5
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/596060/audioengine-a2-review


----------



## toschek

I've only heard the A5+ and not with Schmitt stuff either. I thought they were great little speakers. I'm using my Schitt with a Sony CT-150 and it sounds fantastic, the A2s have to be better than the Sony stuff which is really junk.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I've only heard the A5+ and not with Schmitt stuff either. I thought they were great little speakers. I'm using my Schitt with a Sony CT-150 and it sounds fantastic, the A2s have to be better than the Sony stuff which is really junk.


 
  Thanks for the feedback.
  If consumer grade Sony speakers sound good......
   
  The A5+ are $399.  (469 for Bamboo)
  The A2's are $200 (black/white)  And have really good reviews.
   
  In the link above the author preferred the A2's  Amazon feedback is very good as well.
  I have to fight my instinct that a bigger price tag will be "2X" better.   I do like the A5+ in bamboo  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I think $200 will win.


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> If consumer grade Sony speakers sound good......
> 
> The A5+ are $399.  (469 for Bamboo)
> ...


 

 Why not order them both and return the 'inferior' pair? This way you can remove the "What If?" factor...


----------



## Aaron94

Can anywhere here tell me if the upgrade from Magni/Modi to lets say Asgard 2/Bifrost worth it? I plan to get a Schiit stack along with some ~$400-$600 headphones this summer and I cant decide if I should just go the extra mile for the Asgard 2 and Bifrost or start small with Magni and Modi.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Can anywhere here tell me if the upgrade from Magni/Modi to lets say Asgard 2/Bifrost worth it? I plan to get a Schiit stack along with some ~$400-$600 headphones this summer and I cant decide if I should just go the extra mile for the Asgard 2 and Bifrost or start small with Magni and Modi.


 
   
  My opinion..... go for the Bifrost/Asgard2.  To my ears it's a big difference.
  I owned the M/M and traded to the Asgard2/ Bifrost.
  I just did not like the sound of the M/M.   There are hoards of folks that love them.
   
  I also own a Bifrost / Lyr.  This most likely, had a lot to do with my dissatisfaction with the M/M.
  The Asgard2 combo comes close.   I find it very musical.  It drives my LCD2's very nicely.
   
  However it's $600 (non USB) v. $200  That's a big difference.  I thought it was worth it.
  IMO the Bifrost does not need USB.  Neither of mine do.
   
  Again, everyone loves the M/M... except me.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Can anywhere here tell me if the upgrade from Magni/Modi to lets say Asgard 2/Bifrost worth it? I plan to get a Schiit stack along with some ~$400-$600 headphones this summer and I cant decide if I should just go the extra mile for the Asgard 2 and Bifrost or start small with Magni and Modi.


 
  Aaron94
   
  for what its worth, I bought a Bifrost/Asgard 1 last month. I also wanted a Magni/Modi combo but after the Asgard 2 came out, I wrote to Jason seeking his advice between the Magni and the Asgard 2. I own the HE-400 and Audeze LCD 2 in addition to the ATH-50 and Grado 325is. Jason said the Magni was just fine for my needs. 
   
  I'm sure other Head-fiers have their .02 worth (Wayne, I stole your favorite phrase
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## toschek

iamnothim said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> If consumer grade Sony speakers sound good......
> 
> The A5+ are $399.  (469 for Bamboo)
> ...




Nice, I'm jealous. I'm using the crappy Sony sound bar/sub because it fits underneath my monitors in an eyefinity setup. I love having 3 monitors for work (home office) but it eats up all the space on my desk for speakers. I used to hate it, but the Lyr made it sound nice.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Why not order them both and return the 'inferior' pair? This way you can remove the "What If?" factor...


 
  I thought about that Eddie.
  They have a very liberal 30 policy, both direct and Audio Advisor.
  But I've decided on the A2's because of desktop real estate.
  Tiny works for me and if the sound nearly as good as their reviews, I'm banked.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Aaron94
> 
> for what its worth, I bought a Bifrost/Asgard 1 last month. I also wanted a Magni/Modi combo but after the Asgard 2 came out, I wrote to Jason seeking his advice between the Magni and the Asgard 2. I own the HE-400 and Audeze LCD 2 in addition to the ATH-50 and Grado 325is. Jason said the Magni was just fine for my needs.
> 
> ...


 
  As I said...... everybody loves the little guys !
   
  Did your set come in yet?


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Nice, I'm jealous. I'm using the crappy Sony sound bar/sub because it fits underneath my monitors in an eyefinity setup. I love having 3 monitors for work (home office) but it eats up all the space on my desk for speakers. I used to hate it, but the Lyr made it sound nice.


 
  I started looking at how small the A2's were and how big the A5+'s were and that did it for me.  A2's.  There doesn't seem to be a lot like them.
  I'm stoked about your remarks how the Lyr works with powered speakers.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> As I said...... everybody loves the little guys !
> 
> Did your set come in yet?


 
  I wimped out. After reading on this thread about the "signature" DAC/Amp that Schiit is planning to bring later this year, I'm keeping my powder dry.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> I wimped out. After reading on this thread about the "signature" DAC/Amp that Schiit is planning to bring later this year, I'm keeping my powder dry.


 
  That's some long green.
  Smart play if you have the discipline to wait.


----------



## toschek

Yeah at this point I'm buying a couple sets of backup valves and then that's it for a while. I'm looking forward to the statement amp more than the DAC, I already have a USB Bifrost on the way and I can't see needing any more digital inputs, I just want some extra line inputs and speaker outs.


----------



## Aaron94

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> My opinion..... go for the Bifrost/Asgard2.  To my ears it's a big difference.
> I owned the M/M and traded to the Asgard2/ Bifrost.
> I just did not like the sound of the M/M.   There are hoards of folks that love them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Aaron94
> 
> for what its worth, I bought a Bifrost/Asgard 1 last month. I also wanted a Magni/Modi combo but after the Asgard 2 came out, I wrote to Jason seeking his advice between the Magni and the Asgard 2. I own the HE-400 and Audeze LCD 2 in addition to the ATH-50 and Grado 325is. Jason said the Magni was just fine for my needs.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you both for the replies, but I have a follow up question. Im not entirely sure how the Bifrost would be used without the USB version, I plan to use it with a computer but I honestly have no idea how that would work. Im aware that with the USB version all I need is a USB cable and plug it right in. Is it possible to use the coaxial or optical inputs with a computer?


----------



## toschek

Yes, you might need an adapter say if you had a Macbook Pro (mini-Toslink to Toslink) but for a PC with Coax or Optical outs you can just get one of those cables and set SPDIF out on your PC.
   
  The USB option is really there in case you want a dedicated PC/Mac input and wanted to hook up other digital devices to the Bifrost (PS3/Xbox/SACD or BD player).


----------



## Aaron94

Well the laptop Im going to buy is an Asus PC, not a Mac. But Im still not quite sure how I would get it to work. Im only asking because I really dont want to pay an extra $100 just to get a USB plug, when there is probably a way to use the other 2 inputs with a PC.


----------



## toschek

What PC is it? If you have the model # you should be able to check online if it has any digital outputs for sound.  Look for optical out/coax out or combination 3.5mm headphone/mini toslink output.  If it has any of those you won't need the USB input on the Bifrost.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Thank you both for the replies, but I have a follow up question. Im not entirely sure how the Bifrost would be used without the USB version, I plan to use it with a computer but I honestly have no idea how that would work. Im aware that with the USB version all I need is a USB cable and plug it right in. Is it possible to use the coaxial or optical inputs with a computer?


 
  I ordered my Bifrost with the USB option. I connect the Bifrost to my Macbook Air through the left USB port and use a male A female B USB cable to connect to the Bifrost. If you are using  the headphone jack out of the PC, then you could use an optical cable to connect to the Bifrost. As a third alternative, you could get a USB/SPDIF adapter to connect your PC to the Bifrost (without the USB). Those adapters could get expensive though.


----------



## Aaron94

So basically its spend the extra $100 for the USB addition, or spend $100 on the adapters to use the other 2 input methods. Personally that sounds pointless to me so I guess its USB.


----------



## toschek

If you have those outputs the cables (not adapters) are in the $10 - $20 range, nowhere near $100.   Some computers do require a usb to toslink adapter and in those cases, yeah, why bother.
   
  I like my ODAC, but I'm psyched about getting the Bifrost in a couple of days and letting the ODAC go.   I can finally use my PS3 with my Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I'm psyched to play Journey (not the band) on this setup.


----------



## Aaron94

Ill most likely get the USB version then, it is most likely worth the trouble of trying to find a different cable in order to use a different input, as well as trying tio configure the laptop to work coaxially.


----------



## MattTCG

Can someone kindly point out the on-line retailers that carry Schitt products? 
   
  thanks...


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

Audio Advisor sells some of their stuff. Not the Magni or Modi but they'll have some of the upper end stuff. Free shipping, too, so it works out well.


----------



## hodgjy

The distributors won't have the new products for at least a few weeks.  But, Audioadvisor is a really top-notch operation, so you can wait and order with confidence from them.
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Can someone kindly point out the on-line retailers that carry Schitt products?
> 
> thanks...


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





larrykingsshoes said:


> Audio Advisor sells some of their stuff. Not the Magni or Modi but they'll have some of the upper end stuff. Free shipping, too, so it works out well.


 

 +1. I've bought all of my Schiit from them and much more. Excellent company to buy from. No questions asked returns.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thanks for the info guys!!


----------



## gefski

aaron94 said:


> Ill most likely get the USB version then, it is most likely worth the trouble of trying to find a different cable in order to use a different input, as well as trying tio configure the laptop to work coaxially.




The Bifrost USB is well worth the $100. If things change in the future, you can always switch to SPDIF coax or Toslink.

Back when I purchased a Cambridge DacMagic, I found USB in was just OK. Reviewers found with this dac and many others that their USB was poorly implemented. So I purchased a V-Link USB/SPDIF converter and it really came to life.

Now Schiit and others at sub $500 have greatly improved this. I have listened to my Bifrost both ways and really like the USB. That also minimizes the number of cables and connectors. I settled on the shortest possible ( .5m) Wireworld Starlight cable. Neat thing about these desktop headphone systems is that we can get by with shorter (cheaper) cables than we can in our "big rigs".


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Funny, but I have found just the opposite to be true. I prefer the sound of the optical connection...plus it saves me $100. I suppose that I could always add the usb later if needed. Also there have been issues for me with usb jitter (makes me shudder still). The optical connection has never given me anything but perfect playback.


----------



## rush2049

I posted this in the announcement thread, cross posting here:
   
  No blemishes on mine, but comparing to the Bifrost right next to it I can see the difference in coating. The Asgard 2 has a whiter finish, but when I touch it with my fingers it turns darker and matches the Bifrost (finger oil). I guess if I got some baby oil and dampened a cloth and gave it a quick rub down it would pickup all the dust on it from machining and make it match perfectly.
   
  Photo Time:


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





rush2049 said:


> I posted this in the announcement thread, cross posting here:
> 
> No blemishes on mine, but comparing to the Bifrost right next to it I can see the difference in coating. The Asgard 2 has a whiter finish, but when I touch it with my fingers it turns darker and matches the Bifrost (finger oil). I guess if I got some baby oil and dampened a cloth and gave it a quick rub down it would pickup all the dust on it from machining and make it match perfectly.
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet!! Not sure about the baby oiling though, maybe just clean it with a damp cloth first??
   
  Mine is still two days away...


----------



## j0val

Need some advice as to whether or not I'm doing the right thing...
   
  I've pretty much just started getting into hp's. Started last year with some grado sr80i's. Then upgraded to the sr225i's lst month, but can't say I was really happy with them. Currently, I have HD650's and ended up getting the Asgard 2. My problem is that I don't have a DAC right now. Had the nuForce icon 2 which is a DAC/Amp, but ended up returning it. My plan is to keep the A2 and save up for the bifrost(which probably won't be until next year seeing as I just dropped over $500 already). Am I doing the right thing by just having an amp for a bit? Or should I just go for the Magni/Modi stack?


----------



## disastermouse

A very late mail truck was outside my building as I was on the way out the door for work at 6:30 PM. I tracked him down to make sure I got my package! I haven't even had a chance to open the box for my Magni. Shipping was FAST, as I wasn't expecting it until the end of the week using USPS. My First Schiit!

I can finally try those G-Snake cables I bought two years ago too (the E9 and O2 needed a dual RCA to single RCA cable).


----------



## MickeyVee

Any chance you could do the Modi with the A2? Would definitely hold you out until the Bifrost.
  Quote: 





j0val said:


> Need some advice as to whether or not I'm doing the right thing...
> 
> I've pretty much just started getting into hp's. Started last year with some grado sr80i's. Then upgraded to the sr225i's lst month, but can't say I was really happy with them. Currently, I have HD650's and ended up getting the Asgard 2. My problem is that I don't have a DAC right now. Had the nuForce icon 2 which is a DAC/Amp, but ended up returning it. My plan is to keep the A2 and save up for the bifrost(which probably won't be until next year seeing as I just dropped over $500 already). Am I doing the right thing by just having an amp for a bit? Or should I just go for the Magni/Modi stack?


----------



## toschek

mickeyvee said:


> Any chance you could do the Modi with the A2? Would definitely hold you out until the Bifrost.




Yeah, I would second this. Pick up a Modi or ODAC to tide you over and then sell it when you've bought your Bifrost.


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> A very late mail truck was outside my building as I was on the way out the door for work at 6:30 PM. I tracked him down to make sure I got my package! I haven't even had a chance to open the box for my Magni. Shipping was FAST, as I wasn't expecting it until the end of the week using USPS. My First Schiit!
> 
> I can finally try those G-Snake cables I bought two years ago too (the E9 and O2 needed adual RCA to single RCA cable).


 
   
  Do you remember how long it took for the order to process and go out the door? I've spent the better part of today glancing over at my phone in hopes of a shipping update email. They say 1-3 business days so I am definitely not complaining, it's just my impatience coming through. Priority Mail is pretty impressive so I'm still hopeful that I'll get my Magni by the end of the week.


----------



## disastermouse

larrykingsshoes said:


> Do you remember how long it took for the order to process and go out the door? I've spent the better part of today glancing over at my phone in hopes of a shipping update email. They say 1-3 business days so I am definitely not complaining, it's just my impatience coming through. Priority Mail is pretty impressive so I'm still hopeful that I'll get my Magni by the end of the week.



Ordered Thursday, shipped Friday, received Monday (From California to Georgia, no less)!

When I order protein from California, it takes a week and a half - so I guess I'm just pleasantly surprised!


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> Ordered Thursday, shipped Friday, received Monday (From California to Georgia, no less)!
> 
> When I order protein from California, it takes a week and a half - so I guess I'm just pleasantly surprised!


 
   
  Ah, good deal. That's great timing. Admittedly, Amazon Prime has spoiled me; it makes waiting longer than two days for a package seem like a nightmare. It sounds like this will work out nicely.


----------



## j0val

mickeyvee said:


> Any chance you could do the Modi with the A2? Would definitely hold you out until the Bifrost.




I was thinking that, couldn't find any impressions about the combo though. I guess it would be better than nothing regardless


----------



## Deathdeisel

Quote: 





j0val said:


> I was thinking that, couldn't find any impressions about the combo though. I guess it would be better than nothing regardless


 
  I have it. Not the A2, but the original Asgard and Modi. Compared to the ODAC which I previously had, I can tell no difference really. Honestly if I were you, id buy the Modi, and see how you feel then, whether or not you wanna upgrade then, by all means.


----------



## vaed

So after being to a meet, I have the HE-500's in mind for an upgrade in the distant future. Since the A2 is coming in, I'm wondering if it's a good investment for the HE-500's in the future, I'd love any impressions on those and/or the Mad Dogs (which I own). I'm aware that there are mixed opinions on the A1 for the HE-500's, though the power seems to be the same, I wonder if nevertheless there'll be improvements.


----------



## rdaneel

Looks like I'm joining the Schiit club, too. I have always had my eye on the Lyr, so when I saw a nicely modded one show up on the classifieds, I had to jump on it. Cant wait to compare it to my Emo and Burson.


----------



## j0val

Quote: 





deathdeisel said:


> I have it. Not the A2, but the original Asgard and Modi. Compared to the ODAC which I previously had, I can tell no difference really. Honestly if I were you, id buy the Modi, and see how you feel then, whether or not you wanna upgrade then, by all means.


 
  I might just do that in a couple months. Thinking about selling my recently purchased Grado sr225i's, so maybe that will help me justify spending another $100.


----------



## Deathdeisel

I forget, are you just going with an onboard soundcard atm? If so its EASILY justifiable. Of course let me rephrase, if you have a laptop, do it now. If you have a good home tower, then the results will be less noticeable. Still easily, but less than laptop sound cards(they usually suck, mine included).


----------



## j0val

Quote: 





deathdeisel said:


> I forget, are you just going with an onboard soundcard atm? If so its EASILY justifiable. Of course let me rephrase, if you have a laptop, do it now. If you have a good home tower, then the results will be less noticeable. Still easily, but less than laptop sound cards(they usually suck, mine included).


 
   
  Got a tower. Pretty sure I'm gonna go with the modi for the time being, Also considering the ODAC too though. Probably going to eventually end up with the bifrost next year.


----------



## Iamnothim

I am so, very, sorry, but this is like wounded wildebeest limping past a lion....


----------



## markm1

Newbie alert.
   
  Can the Billforst and Modi work as a DAC for speakers as well as HP's?
   
  I've just bought a Onyko internet receiver that can stream Internet stations and and acces PC music from a wifi network . If I wanted to use one of these DACs though  the receiver rather than a copmuter to stream, listen to music from my PC from my network through the receiver, I'm curious if I can use one of these DAC w speakers as well as HP's?
   
  Just trying to make a good first DAC purchase and trying to kill as many birds w/ one stone.
   
  Thanks!
   
  Mark


----------



## Iamnothim

Sure.
   
  A DAC sits between the source and amplification and has nothing to do with speaker impedance.
  That's the amp's domain.
   
  The DAC will be a "source" on your receiver.  Just as Internet stream is one, or a DVD player is another.
  EDIT:  The Onyko has internal DACs, one is used for the Internet Stream.  In the case of PC media files, the Bifrost or Modi stems in-between  and handles that function.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> Sure.
> 
> A DAC sits between the source and amplification and has nothing to do with speaker impedance.
> That's the amp's domain.
> ...


 
  Cool-thanks for that Crystal clear explanation!
   
   
  I assume the same would apply if you are accessing an ipod/iphone through a USB connection as part of the recieiver.
   
   
  Never having owned one, I'm sort of turning my head sideways trying to conceptualize the set up....appreciate it.


----------



## Iamnothim

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Cool-thanks for that Crystal clear explanation!
> 
> 
> I assume the same would apply if you are accessing an ipod/iphone through a USB connection as part of the recieiver.
> ...


 
   
 A DAC is all about "clocking".   How many times per second a source is sampled.
 Note to readers: This is not a complete explanation.  Just trying to convey concepts.
  
 When music is recorded there is a complimentary device called an ADC  "Analog to Digital Converter".
 When the analog waves pulses from an instrument hit the microphone they go to the analog side of the ADC.
  
 When you see frequency numbers like 44.1 kHz or 96kHz that is the clock rate or number or analog samples taken each second.
 kHz is 1000 samples taken in one second.  Hence when you see a digital music file that is labeled 96 kHz that means that 96,000 "samples" (like free food at Costco) were taken every second and converted to bits and written to a music file.  If you are using iTunes, under songs list,  you can go to view options and click on "sample rate".
  
 A DAC is the converse of an ADC.  It takes the digital file, un-samples it and turns it to an analog source for your amp to amplify.
  
 Edit.  The quality of the music from a digital source has a lot to do with the specialized processor that performs the conversion, as well as the "stability" of the clock source and synchronization between the audio source (computer) and the DAC.  This "clock sync is done over the interface.  Optical Toslink or USB.   There is endless debate over which is better.
 Edit2: That is what you are paying for in a DAC.
 Edit3:  The quality of the recording / source music and how it gets to the ADC inn the studio is IMO the most important part of all.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I am so, very, sorry, but this is like wounded wildebeest limping past a lion....


 
  Symbolism of the utmost snobbery.


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

I like the sound of an Apple but I find Windows 8 to have a more refined sound character. It sounds better for dubstep.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





vaed said:


> So after being to a meet, I have the HE-500's in mind for an upgrade in the distant future. Since the A2 is coming in, I'm wondering if it's a good investment for the HE-500's in the future, I'd love any impressions on those and/or the Mad Dogs (which I own). I'm aware that there are mixed opinions on the A1 for the HE-500's, though the power seems to be the same, I wonder if nevertheless there'll be improvements.


 
  I can't tell you about the A2, but I just got the Magni and it's truly a night and day difference from the FiiO E9 and O2 (the O2 was _abysmal_ with my chain).  It's the best $99 I ever spent and it gives me a great deal of confidence in Schiit, regardless of the opinion of them held by the O2 faithful.
   
  What is the soundstage like on the Mad Dogs?  I thought that planars were just cursed to terrible sound stages until I got the Magni and heard my HE-500 expand in width and depth.  The HE-500 is my first and (so far) only planar headphone and so I have no idea how it compares to the Mad Dogs or LCD-2.2.  All I can say is that the amps were definitely the weakest link in my chain and the cheap (*ahem* _inexpensive_) Magni has produced a difference I would not have ever attributed to an amp.


----------



## hodgjy

Bit perfect shouldn't have any sound.  If it does, it's not bit perfect.
   
  Quote: 





larrykingsshoes said:


> I like the sound of an Apple but I find Windows 8 to have a more refined sound character. It sounds better for dubstep.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Bit perfect shouldn't have any sound.  If it does, it's not bit perfect.


 
  Disagree completely. Amarra sounds different from Itunes, Foobar, PM, etc.
  This is purely in stock form i.e. no EQ, etc.
   
  All aforementioned players are capable of bit perfect playback.


----------



## hodgjy

Then it's not bit perfect.
   
  The same dac should read the same 0s and 1s to make the same sound, regardless of the player.  If the player is coloring the sound, it's altering the 0s and 1s.  Not bit perfect.
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Disagree completely. Amarra sounds different from Itunes, Foobar, PM, etc.
> This is purely in stock form i.e. no EQ, etc.
> 
> All aforementioned players are capable of bit perfect playback.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Then it's not bit perfect.
> 
> The same dac should read the same 0s and 1s to make the same sound, regardless of the player.  If the player is coloring the sound, it's altering the 0s and 1s.  Not bit perfect.


 
  Then I've simply never experienced bit perfect playback because
  all music players impart their own flavor of some sort.


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Bit perfect shouldn't have any sound.  If it does, it's not bit perfect.


 
   
  I was kidding about Apple vs Windows 8; my ears aren't _that _good, no way I'd be able to hear differences in operating systems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Truth be told, my experience with external DACs is rather limited but I'm looking forward to getting my hands on a Modi. JRiver Media Center looks to be extremely flexible with its output. I'm not sure what settings I'll need to use to get the best results but I'm sure there's information out there.


----------



## MickeyVee

Re-read your post.. please ignore. Rethinking the digital file to player output process..
  Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Then it's not bit perfect.
> 
> The same dac should read the same 0s and 1s to make the same sound, regardless of the player.  If the player is coloring the sound, it's altering the 0s and 1s.  Not bit perfect.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Whoah.. not true.. assuming that any decent DAC (or software) gets bit perfect in through the receiver to the actual DAC chip/program.. there's the DA conversion, how it processes the output, changes those bits to an actual analog wave... differences exist in how and how well software does the conversion.
> 
> And for DACs, all of the parts in the chain leading to the outputs.. take power supply for instance. Higher end DAC haver separate power supplies for the digital and analog sections to minimize interference/crosstalk/distortion, etc. Some use op-amps on the output while others are discrete components.  That's why a $100 DAC does not sound the same as a $1000 DAC. Bit perfect in does not mean the same output.
> Otherwise, following your logic, Modi = Bifrost = Gungnir


 
  Even if, say, you're using 1 DAC, getting bit perfect. There's still differences between music players
  when it comes to memory playback,dithered volume, digital attenuation, upsampling, buffering, throughput,output, etc
   
  I don't understand how hodgjy ascertained that there aren't other/many factors when it comes to music playback.
  However I won't argue with his findings, I just disagree. 
   
  There are a lot of people that work on the software side of things that conclude that it comes down
  to implementation just like anything else. in which, there's not really a 1 answer/solution to why different
  music players impart their own sound Or even sound different. It's just rather a combination of many things.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> A DAC is all about "clocking".   How many times per second a source is sampled.
> Note to readers: This is not a complete explanation.  Just trying to convey concepts.
> 
> When music is recorded there is a complimentary device called an ADC  "Analog to Digital Converter".
> ...


 
  Holy cow! I didn't realize that I needed to have a background in IT or be a sound engineer before buyiing a DAC!
   
  Just kidding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  From one tech challenged individual-your information is really very hefpful.
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Then it's not bit perfect.
> 
> The same dac should read the same 0s and 1s to make the same sound, regardless of the player.  If the player is coloring the sound, it's altering the 0s and 1s.  Not bit perfect.


 
   
  You can have a DAC that alters the sound but is still bit-perfect. In addition to the quantized values of the samples, you also have the TIMING of those samples. If your timing is enough off, such as by way of jitter, you can alter the sound while remaining bit-perfect.
   
  se


----------



## hodgjy

What you say is true.  But, if you have the same music file, two different players, same usb port, and same DAC, but they sound different, the only culprit left is the player.  One, or both, of the players is altering the music file.  So, that's not bit perfect.  
   
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> You can have a DAC that alters the sound but is still bit-perfect. In addition to the quantized values of the samples, you also have the TIMING of those samples. If your timing is enough off, such as by way of jitter, you can alter the sound while remaining bit-perfect.
> 
> se


----------



## Iamnothim

My experience...

In September, before my HP's I bought a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic plus.
I thought it sounded great over my Thiel CS 1.2 and the in wall Paradigm speakers throughout the house..... Then it had a problem and I sent it back.

I discovered Schiit and HPs etc etc.....

When I replaced the $599 DacMagic Plus with a $349 Bifrost. It sounded like a $2000 upgrade. It was a "slap you in the face" difference.   

There are hundreds of components under the hood resister and capacitor values tolerances, circuit paths. Thousands of decisions go into these products.  Schiit builds a better product. IMO.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

iamnothim said:


> Asgard2 / Bifrost
> Straight to the point.
> Much better than Magni/Modi
> A long way to go to Lyr / Bifrost
> ...




Not sure if you still have both, but I've heard that the difference between the Modi and the Bifrost is much more pronounced than the difference between the Magni and the Asgard. Do you happen to still have both?


----------



## vaed

Hey guys,
   
  I just got my bifrost in, and for some reason it won't play 24/192 on my PC. At first, Windows was telling me the device didn't support it. Upon restarting my computer, I was able to set it to 24/192, but then I get clicking noises from the bifrost and the test tones won't play through, and I get this very small distortion at the end of the playing tones. Can anyone help me out? I'm using an optical in/out.
   
  EDIT: Now J.River is telling me that NONE of the output formats are supported... What is going on?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





vaed said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just got my bifrost in, and for some reason it won't play 24/192. At first, Windows was telling me the device didn't support it. Upon restarting my computer, I was able to set it to 24/192, but then I get clicking noises from the bifrost and the test tones won't play through, and I get this very small distortion at the end of the tones. Can anyone help me out? I'm using an optical in/out.


 
   
  If you're using optical then it's most likely an issue with whatever is outputting the optical signal. If you have anything else that can take an optical signal I'd first try that to narrow it down. I'd also try updating the drivers for your motherboard or sound card (whatever you're using to output).
   
  As far as Windows telling you it doesn't support it, that actually has nothing to do with the Bifrost. Windows doesn't have any idea what (if anything) is hooked up to the other end of that optical cable, so if it was saying it was unsupported then what it's telling you is that it doesn't think your optical output supports 24/192. You may want to look up the specs for your motherboard or sound card and verify that it does, there are certainly a number of well-known computers (like most Macs) that don't go above 24/96 through optical.
   
  I'd check that sort of information first, and if everything you can find seems to indicate that your motherboard / sound card should support 24/192 then just shoot Schiit an email, I'm sure they'll have more/better ideas.


----------



## vaed

Thanks for your reply! I've a second problem, and not sure how much it has to do with the first.
   
  I was able to find this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593243/schiit-bifrost-cannot-play-192-sample-rate-under-windows-7-through-optical though it wasn't too much help.
   
  Tinkering around a bit, I was able to get J River to play the source bitdepth, but it was through DirectSound/Wave Out mode. WASAPI/Event Style gives me an error about playback (device doesn't support it). 
   
  I guess the thing that's bugging me is that I had no such problems with the Magni/E10, so this is more indicative of the optical out, as you said.
   
*EDIT: Everything's been solved... it was a problem in J. River, had to check the box "Present 24 as 32", and it started working. *


----------



## ponderoso

Can anyone here who owns the Bifrost tell me if you can have 3 inputs hooked up to it simultaneously (assuming you have the usb version) and choose between the 3? I'm thinking of getting one, but need to convert more than one digital source, and can't find any info on Schiit's site. Thanks!


----------



## vaed

I believe so. I just checked really fast... I don't have the USB version, but the bifrost's button on the front switches the input, and I was able to switch from optical to coaxial and back instantly, though I don't have any coaxial input, it did give me back my optical sound when I switched back. I'm not sure about having the three on simultaneously.


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





ponderoso said:


> Can anyone here who owns the Bifrost tell me if you can have 3 inputs hooked up to it simultaneously (assuming you have the usb version) and choose between the 3? I'm thinking of getting one, but need to convert more than one digital source, and can't find any info on Schiit's site. Thanks!


 
   
  I have inputs to USB and optical, and they're both being fed by the laptop simultaneously quite often, USB for the computer and Internet sounds, optical mainly for foobar. This is quite a boon for me as before the Bifrost, I could only output from the laptop with only USB to the uDac2, and when foobar was playing through WASAPI, sometimes video players (including Netflix) in browsers would crash or report error with sound (as foobar took over the sound stream with exclusivity). But with the Bifrost, you can do what you're asking (though I can't be certain of coaxial as I've never tried that out).


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





vaed said:


> I believe so. I just checked really fast... I don't have the USB version, but the bifrost's button on the front switches the input, and I was able to switch from optical to coaxial and back instantly, though I don't have any coaxial input, it did give me back my optical sound when I switched back. I'm not sure about having the three on simultaneously.


 
  Are you able to have it connected to multiple sources?  For instance, could I have it connected to a PC and a receiver and switch back and forth? I'm doing some of my listening via streaming sources through an Internet receiver w/ pre programmed stations w./o having to fool w/ my PC.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Are you able to have it connected to multiple sources?  For instance, could I have it connected to a PC and a receiver and switch back and forth? I'm doing some of my listening via streaming sources through an Internet receiver w/ pre programmed stations w./o having to fool w/ my PC.


 
   
  Yes, you can have all 3 inputs plugged in and then you use the button on the front to select between the inputs.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Yes, you can have all 3 inputs plugged in and then you use the button on the front to select between the inputs.


 
  Ok-that's pretty cool. Rats. I was hoping to just spend the $100 on the Modi!


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Ok-that's pretty cool. Rats. I was hoping to just spend the $100 on the Modi!


 
   
  LoL, sorry


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> LoL, sorry


 
  I'm being indecisive...I need someone to slap me in the face to make a choice.
   
  I've got a $200 pair of Grados w/ an Asg2 but no DAC. The sound out of my receiver streaming music is passable...probably because I don't know what I'm missing and I'm saving for a HE 4 or 500 or something similar.
   
   
   
  I would just go for a Modi. But, I want to be able to plug into the coaxial and/or optical jacks on my receiver as I'm streaming a lot of music through the receiver and enjoy the convenience of preprogrammed services. Plus the DAC on the Internet receiver produces better quality than my PC.
   
  I suppose it's better to save for prime rib, rather than eat a gourmet hamburger.


----------



## ilikepooters

Is Modi the same footprint as the Lyr? i want to get one but i want them to stack neatly...


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Is Modi the same footprint as the Lyr? i want to get one but i want them to stack neatly...


 
   

   
   
  nope, different size


----------



## ilikepooters

I don't think that's a Modi or a Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Modi is here
  http://www.electromod.co.uk/product-detail.asp?P=41
   
  Lyr
  http://www.electromod.co.uk/product-detail.asp?P=29


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I don't think that's a Modi or a Lyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, you are correct. In the picture the right unit is the Asgard. The Asgard and Lyr have the same footprint. 
   
  EDIT: On the left side is the Modi on top of a Magni.


----------



## ilikepooters

Ahh yeah i get it now, looks like i'll have to save up some ££ and get a Bifrost.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Yes, I would certainly save for the BF.


----------



## bearFNF

About to order mine, just sold some stuff to get it...


----------



## Oldandslow

Quote: 





iamnothim said:


> I started looking at how small the A2's were and how big the A5+'s were and that did it for me.  A2's.  There doesn't seem to be a lot like them.
> I'm stoked about your remarks how the Lyr works with powered speakers.


 
  Sorry, off topic, not about Schiit! 
   
  I tried buying a cheap sound bar for my computer room TV. It had awful sound. I then tried a more expensive solution, a Vizio sound bar. It didn't sound much better. I then bought a set of Autoengine A2s and laid them down in front of the TV. Sounds great! They really are small.
   

   
  I have my desktop computer connected through a HRT Streamer II DAC, and the DAC is connected to a pair of A5+s, which are connected to an Autoengine S8 sub. The A5+s alone, sounds much better than the A2s. I don't know why the reviewer would say the A2s sounded better than the A5+s. Good, yes, but not as good as the A5+s, not by a long shot!


----------



## ponderoso

Thanks for the info. Bifrost it is!


----------



## rdaneel

The A2s are amazing little speakers, aren't they?  I have used a pair in my office for a couple years and love them to pieces.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





mikenike said:


> I have inputs to USB and optical, and they're both being fed by the laptop simultaneously quite often, USB for the computer and Internet sounds, optical mainly for foobar. This is quite a boon for me as before the Bifrost, I could only output from the laptop with only USB to the uDac2, and when foobar was playing through WASAPI, sometimes video players (including Netflix) in browsers would crash or report error with sound (as foobar took over the sound stream with exclusivity). But with the Bifrost, you can do what you're asking (though I can't be certain of coaxial as I've never tried that out).


 
  On my Gateway PC I have USB and HMDI ports availlable, but not coaxial and optical SPDIF ports. Does that mean I would have to purchase the spendier model with the USB option? After reading many of the posts in this thread, it looks to me like SPDIF is preferred....


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> On my Gateway PC I have USB and HMDI ports availlable, but not coaxial and optical SPDIF ports. Does that mean I would have to purchase the spendier model with the USB option? After reading many of the posts in this thread, it looks to me like SPDIF is preferred....


 
   
  One if these would do the job.
   
  http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewHD-Premium-Audio-Extractor-Converter/dp/B00AHS8LD8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1362239398&sr=8-5
   
  Basically turns your HDMI port into HDMI + SPDIF.
   
  You'll save a fortune if you get that instead of the USB version of the DAC.


----------



## GloryUprising

Anyone have any new information on Shiit's 'STATEMENT' gear?
   
  Jason, comment?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





gloryuprising said:


> Anyone have any new information on Shiit's 'STATEMENT' gear?
> 
> Jason, comment?


 
Suuuuuuuuure


----------



## GloryUprising

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Suuuuuuuuure


 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> One if these would do the job.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewHD-Premium-Audio-Extractor-Converter/dp/B00AHS8LD8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1362239398&sr=8-5
> 
> ...


 
  Oh, that's great. I really did not want to spend the extra bucks on the USB version.
   
  Thank you


----------



## Bananaheadlin

paradoxper said:


> Suuuuuuuuure




Not directly stated, but I assume the Statement amp will be priced pretty much right on the price of the DAC?


----------



## toschek

bananaheadlin said:


> Not directly stated, but I assume the Statement amp will be priced pretty much right on the price of the DAC?




Do you mean in the $1500 - $2000 range? Me too. I also hope it uses the same tubes as the lyr so I can repurpose all the ones I have.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bananaheadlin said:


> Not directly stated, but I assume the Statement amp will be priced pretty much right on the price of the DAC?


 
  It's been stated that statement gear will run double of the mid-tier balanced Schiit. So yes, approximately.
   
  And pricing could be subject to change...
   
   
  It will not use the same family of tubes as Lyr.
   
   
  But that was also kind of subject to change per Jason's words.


----------



## Bananaheadlin

paradoxper said:


> It's been stated that statement gear will run double of the mid-tier balanced Schiit. So yes, approximately.
> 
> And pricing could be subject to change...
> 
> ...




Thanks for pointing that out Paradoxper. I was under the impression that it was going to be solid state. Whoops!


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





bananaheadlin said:


> Thanks for pointing that out Paradoxper. I was under the impression that it was going to be solid state. Whoops!


 
  It's been said that you will have a choice of either SS or a hybrid. 
   
  That is also subject to change..


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> It's been stated that statement gear will run double of the mid-tier balanced Schiit. So yes, approximately.
> 
> And pricing could be subject to change...
> 
> ...


 
   
  When did they mention the tube family?   I didn't see it on the post from Jason, must have been in a follow up post?


----------



## HydronQc

Just Received my bifrost, looks and sound great with the Asgard


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





toschek said:


> When did they mention the tube family?   I didn't see it on the post from Jason, must have been in a follow up post?


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/960#post_9041587
   
  Last two sentences about the amp


----------



## n9eryeah

Picking up my bifrost and Valhalla soon.


----------



## markm1

Would anyone comment how the Billforst does as a dedicated DAC used with speakers?  I'm doing a lot of streaming listening from a Internet streaming receiver, and I'm just curious...in addition to HP listening how it stands up to traditional DAC components that are not specifically targeted to HP consumers.
   
  I've got two sources with different outputs that will necessitate both SPDIF and USB. I'll use my HP's in both cases. And, if I take that plunge at a higher $ amount than originally anticipated, I'm wondering how the the Billforst functions as a regular DAC for plain old fashioned speaker listening in addition to my cans.
   
  Just trying to justify....


----------



## toschek

jason stoddard said:


> *Statement Amp*
> 
> The Statement amp is much more mature, but we put its development on hold so it can be more closely aligned with the DAC. Also, transformer issues have slowed us down in iterating the design. Argh.
> 
> What I can tell you about the Statement amp is that it is more than a feature--packed Mjolnir. Think of a complete integrated amp, with special attention paid to the headphone output side, and yes, speaker binding posts. Same circlotron-style topology, but significantly different in execution for these power and current levels, and with a very different, relay-switched stepped attenuator volume control. Expect 50W into 8 ohms and multiple levels of gain, with the intention of serving everything from IEMs to loudspeakers. And yes, solid-state or hybrid will be available--but it'll be a one-time choice. There's no switching back and forth.




He does mention multiple gain stages, but it doesn't say anything about precluding the use of 6dj8 family tubes there unless I am missing something?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





toschek said:


> When did they mention the tube family?   I didn't see it on the post from Jason, must have been in a follow up post?


 
  He hasn't.
   
   
  However I asked him about this around April of last year. And as stated that's
  subject to change, possibly.
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
   
   
  I am pretty sure it's too early to ask: Why did you decide to offer both solid state and Hybrid? I am just having a tough decision on selling the Lyr to fund the Mjolnir and then keeping all the tubes I've invested in or letting them sit until the statement Hybrid. Will there be any difference compared to the solid state other than being able to tune the sound?
   
   
*We do both SS and hybrid, because some people like SS, and some people like tubes--there's really nothing more to it than that. And the statement will use different tubes than Lyr. It's all about doing the best possible thing at the price point, which is relatively different depending on where we're at.*
   
   
  Ok, so none of the current Lyr compatible tubes will be rollable with the statement hybrid?
  Please, say no.*
   
   
*None of the current Lyr compatible tubes will work in the statement amp--it's an entirely different tube family, with different sockets. Or you can order it as an all solid-state amp.*


----------



## hodgjy

I predict the 6SN7 tube family.


----------



## paradoxper

Some Peak competition.


----------



## toschek

What other ones could they use other than 6SN7s?

Edit: While I'm guessing that the Statement amp will have unbalanced rca and balanced inputs, I guess it will be safe to say no phono stage? Any idea if there will be multiple unbalanced and balanced inputs (switchable)? Hoping I can buy just the amp to start and use the Bifrost until I can afford the DAC too.


----------



## paradoxper

Many. It could be very rollable or not. We're just speculating on what tubes we find to possibly be the most fitting.


----------



## nelamvr6

I'm officially a Schiit owner, my Bifrost and Lyr arrived today!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Right now I'm running in the GE 6BZ7s that came with the amp.  Once I see how these pan out I'll be rolling in some nicer, older NOS tubes.


----------



## Mattjh90

thought id share my Schiit stack. very pleased with Asgard 2 and was one of the lucky that didnt have a transformer issue


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





mattjh90 said:


> thought id share my Schiit stack. very pleased with Asgard 2 and was one of the lucky that didnt have a transformer issue


 
  Nice pics. Is it Ok to place the Modi on top though ? The Asgard 2 runs pretty warm.


----------



## toschek

Very pretty. What headphones are you driving? Are those AKGs?


----------



## Mattjh90

-


----------



## Mattjh90

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Nice pics. Is it Ok to place the Modi on top though ? The Asgard 2 runs pretty warm.


 
  I thought at at first because Asgard does run pretty hot but after about 2-3 hours with the amp on the bottom of Modi was only slightly warm. Seems that it doesnt absorb heat that well 
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Very pretty. What headphones are you driving? Are those AKGs?


 
  ahaha no i only have beyerdynamic dt770 pro 80ohm and Shure SRH840's both sound quite good. A2 really brings out the boom in my dt770s. I am in the market for open back headhphones, either hd650 or dt 990 250 ohm


----------



## nelamvr6

Sweet!
   
  Here're my pieces of Schiit:
   

   
   
  Here's my Lyr, doing what it does best:


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Here're my pieces of Schiit:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very nice pics sir! Hey, have you tried to pre-amp that Rotel with the Lyr?

 Was thinking of trying something similar myself.. 

 I would love a pair of bookshelves with a nice 2CH power amp, and the Lyr as a pre-amp


----------



## nelamvr6

Thanks!
   
  No, I haven't, I confess it hadn't occurred to me.
   
  that amp isn't connected to the system at the present moment, and it would be a lot of trouble to try that experiment now.  Maybe this summer...
   
  The Lyr wouldn't be a very practical preamp for me, I need a lot more inputs, and I need a remote control...


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Here're my pieces of Schiit:
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I have the DT990 600 ohm version, and they are magnificent.  The A2 drives them very well.  In fact, both the A1 and A2 drive them better than my uber expensive tube amp.  No lies.
   
  Quote: 





mattjh90 said:


> I thought at at first because Asgard does run pretty hot but after about 2-3 hours with the amp on the bottom of Modi was only slightly warm. Seems that it doesnt absorb heat that well
> ahaha no i only have beyerdynamic dt770 pro 80ohm and Shure SRH840's both sound quite good. A2 really brings out the boom in my dt770s. I am in the market for open back headhphones, either hd650 or* dt 990 250 ohm *


----------



## Mattjh90

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have the DT990 600 ohm version, and they are magnificent.  The A2 drives them very well.  In fact, both the A1 and A2 drive them better than my uber expensive tube amp.  No lies.


 
  Thank you for that, would you recommend the 600ohm version over the 250ohm? They definitely are on my radar for open back headphones, i love my dt770's and was curious how hd650's sound but after looking on the asgard 2 thread, it seems like hd650s pair nicer with some tubes so maybe vahalla or Lyr in the future


----------



## hodgjy

Honestly, I have not heart the DT990 250, but the general consensus is the 600 ohm version is better.  It's not has harsh, is more pleasing in the highs, and is more musical.  In other words, it's just better.
   
  Quote: 





mattjh90 said:


> Thank you for that, would you recommend the 600ohm version over the 250ohm? They definitely are on my radar for open back headphones, i love my dt770's and was curious how hd650's sound but after looking on the asgard 2 thread, it seems like hd650s pair nicer with some tubes so maybe vahalla or Lyr in the future


----------



## jontron

Quote: 





atbglenn said:


>


 
  What are those things around the tubes?


----------



## hodgjy

Tube dampers.  Reduce internal noise of the tubes themselves.  Also can help reduce microphonics.  They aren't miracle workers, but they can help some.
   
  Quote: 





jontron said:


> What are those things around the tubes?


----------



## atbglenn

Quote: 





jontron said:


> What are those things around the tubes?


 
   
  That's not my system but they are called Tube Dampers. They're supposed to reduce or eliminate microphonic's which can cause sound quality issues 
   
  Edit: hodgjy beat me to the punch


----------



## jontron

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Tube dampers.  Reduce internal noise of the tubes themselves.  Also can help reduce microphonics.  They aren't miracle workers, but they can help some.


 
   
  Quote: 





atbglenn said:


> That's not my system but they are called Tube Dampers. They're supposed to reduce or eliminate microphonic's which can cause sound quality issues
> 
> Edit: hodgjy beat me to the punch


 
  Very interesting, thanks!


----------



## Taliesin

What do people think of the HD800 paired with the gungnit and mjolnir. Listen to nearly every kind of music, except metal. Was interested ingetting a balanced hd800 for the large soundstage. What does the mjolnir do for the hd800 in terms of highs mids bass. Want mjolnir to have decent bass as i also watch lots of movie on my headphones.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Would anyone comment how the Billforst does as a dedicated DAC used with speakers?  I'm doing a lot of streaming listening from a Internet streaming receiver, and I'm just curious...in addition to HP listening how it stands up to traditional DAC components that are not specifically targeted to HP consumers.
> 
> I've got two sources with different outputs that will necessitate both SPDIF and USB. I'll use my HP's in both cases. And, if I take that plunge at a higher $ amount than originally anticipated, I'm wondering how the the Billforst functions as a regular DAC for plain old fashioned speaker listening in addition to my cans.
> 
> Just trying to justify....


 
   
  First off, what's a Billforst? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I used my Bifrost quite satisfactorily through my speakers. Until I upgraded to the Gungnir. The BF is best suited to adrenaline junkies. It moves the music right along, and it's lean and mean. That is, there's no added warmth and it does not smooth out low-quality sources. (Not that it should, neccessarily - that's a debate for audiophiles vs. music lovers - but some DACs [not to mention amps] do make everything sound a bit more relaxed.)
   
  I'd recommend the Gungnir if you can at all afford it. Yeah, It's easy for me to spend your money. But not only is the SQ significantly improved in both detail and ease, there's three outputs so you can leave everything connected all the time.
   
  But both are killer for the money.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> First off, what's a Billforst?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks...


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> No, I haven't, I confess it hadn't occurred to me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  True, the Lyr is not ideal in many ways. wont work with the headphones at the same time.. etc..

 I am a college student abroad and would love a pair of bookshelf speakers in addition to my headphone setup. Transportation is already a major problem since I always take the plane and all. A pair of speakers would be completely impossible to carry around.
   
  However, at a slight chance that I might be settling down soon after my planned master studies, I am definitely getting those bookshelves. While I would still have to move around for a while probably, I think that I would prefer to carry a power amp (plus the Lyr + Bifrost) around, rather than an integrated one.

 I found a nice Rotel, i believe same series as the one you have, but newer. 100W/channel, will drive any bookshelf speaker with power to spare. So, until I get the change to go to the store and try it out, ive been looking for someone who has experience with that.

 Let me know if you try it out soon.

 Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## nelamvr6

I really like Rotel stuff.  That amp still sounds sweet!  It's only out of my system now because I had a fault in my preamp (also a Rotel), and I bought the new NAD instead of repairing it.  
   
  I gave that preamp to a friend who repaired it, it's living on in Ohio.


----------



## toschek

I was looking at a small integrated for the same reasons you cited.  Actually looking for a Leben C-300SX (if I can find one).  It is a killer headphone tube amp & has 2x 15W speaker taps.   Kinda pricey at $3500 but it does come with a complement of NOS Mullard's.   Does anyone here have experience with the Leben products?   They look sweet, but I've never heard one so I have no idea how they perform relative to the Lyr.  
   
  I'll probably just wait for the Schiit statement.  Though I'm anxious as to when the paper release will hit, since I want to hit the ground running with good tubes.  Since Jason said it'll be a 2x 50W I'm trying to guess at the tube type since I guess we won't be able to use out Lyr tubes in it.  
   
  Hope they release specs soon, I'm no good at waiting.  
   
  I wonder how the Leben would do with the Bifrost as a DAC.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I was looking at a small integrated for the same reasons you cited.  Actually looking for a Leben C-300SX (if I can find one).  It is a killer headphone tube amp & has 2x 15W speaker taps.   Kinda pricey at $3500 but it does come with a complement of NOS Mullard's.   Does anyone here have experience with the Leben products?   They look sweet, but I've never heard one so I have no idea how they perform relative to the Lyr.
> 
> I'll probably just wait for the Schiit statement.  Though I'm anxious as to when the paper release will hit, since I want to hit the ground running with good tubes.  Since Jason said it'll be a 2x 50W I'm trying to guess at the tube type since I guess we won't be able to use out Lyr tubes in it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  A lot of people have been telling me about the Leben C-300SX, its kind of a legend apparently. But lets not get this thread off topic, been in trouble for that many times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...

 Regarding the Statement, I am also anxious to be honest. It IDEALLY answers to my problem of driving bookshelf speakers, while being a fancy headphone amp and all. I am also very interested what kind of elvish wizardry they have put into the new DAC. Myself, I am no that much into trading gear and trying out new stuff. I like to try out new gear from friends or at a store, but not really to change amps every 5 days. I guess I am a FAKE audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am definitely keeping this Lyr of mine, and hopefully going to get the Statement (amp and dac) as soon as it comes out. After all, "hopefully" because im still a student, and on a very limited budget i have to say.


----------



## 45longcolt

At the risk of going waaay OT, some folks seem to be thinking that bookshelf speakers are going to be easier to drive because thay are smaller, and thus would be ideally paired with a "mere" 50 watts or so from the Schiit statement. Sadly, not neccessarily so. There are some refrigerator-size floorstanding speakers which flourish on 5 watts and some textbook-size boxes which will swallow hundreds of watts and ask for seconds.
   
  The key spec is efficiency, especially if you want to shake the floor occasionally. (Which you really won't ever be able to do with small speakers as I've learned the hard way - speaker cone confetti, anyone?) I'd look for an efficiency rating of at least 90 (at eight ohms) if I was limited to 50 watts. Which I hope to be, when Schiit gets off the pot (sorry, couldn't resist) and delivers the statement gear. Whew, back on topic.
   
  BTW, would anyone like to join me in petitioning Schiit to include a balance control on the statement amp? Useful with phones, but even more so with speakers which have to live in real world not-always-symetrical rooms. Pleeeze, Jason?


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> At the risk of going waaay OT, some folks seem to be thinking that bookshelf speakers are going to be easier to drive because thay are smaller, and thus would be ideally paired with a "mere" 50 watts or so from the Schiit statement. Sadly, not neccessarily so. There are some refrigerator-size floorstanding speakers which flourish on 5 watts and some textbook-size boxes which will swallow hundreds of watts and ask for seconds.
> 
> The key spec is efficiency, especially if you want to shake the floor occasionally. (Which you really won't ever be able to do with small speakers as I've learned the hard way - speaker cone confetti, anyone?) I'd look for an efficiency rating of at least 90 (at eight ohms) if I was limited to 50 watts. Which I hope to be, when Schiit gets off the pot (sorry, couldn't resist) and delivers the statement gear. Whew, back on topic.
> 
> BTW, would anyone like to join me in petitioning Schiit to include a balance control on the statement amp? Useful with phones, but even more so with speakers which have to live in real world not-always-symetrical rooms. Pleeeze, Jason?


 
   
  Yep, I'm looking at some 94db and 91db efficient speakers to drive with whatever I end up with.  The price jump in just those 3db is like $700.  Sigh.  
   
  /signed on the balance control.  "Loudness" might be good for late night listening too.


----------



## velvetx

Just picked up the Lyr and Bifrost combo and all I can say is this is fricken sweet.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





velvetx said:


> Just picked up the Lyr and Bifrost combo and all I can say is this is fricken sweet.


 

 Congrats and start rolling some tubes and buy lcd2.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





velvetx said:


> Just picked up the Lyr and Bifrost combo and all I can say is this is fricken sweet.


 
   
   
  Welcome to the club!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Congrats and start rolling some tubes and buy lcd2.


 
   
   
  I've been listening to my LCD-2s all evening, I put some '60's Amperex USN-CEPs in the Lyr... This is as close to perfection as I'll likely ever get!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I've been listening to my LCD-2s all evening, I put some '60's Amperex USN-CEPs in the Lyr... This is as close to perfection as I'll likely ever get!


 

 hmmm, I'm saving money for siemens CCa.  I have other amperex tubes, I like it (bugle boy and orange globes.)  I would go for that later.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> hmmm, I'm saving money for siemens CCa.  I have other amperex tubes, I like it (bugle boy and orange globes.)  I would go for that later.


 
   
   
  I'd love to have the CCas, but they're going for $500 for a pair.  Your Bugle Boys, and my USN-CEPs are closer to $100.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'd love to have the CCas, but they're going for $500 for a pair.  Your Bugle Boys, and my USN-CEPs are closer to $100.


 

 I saw usn-cep sell for around 250.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I saw usn-cep sell for around 250.


 
   
   
  Well, that's still closer to $100 than $500!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I guess I got a better deal on mine than I realized.
   
  But  man, they sound awesome!


----------



## nelamvr6

I should just keep m y mouth shut!  I'm just making my next pair more expensive!


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, that's still closer to $100 than $500!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 man, right now, I'm burning Valvo red label e88cc.  Love this sound, it's getting better.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> man, right now, I'm burning Valvo red label e88cc.  Love this sound, it's getting better.


 
   
   
  I'll have to try those, how much are they going for?
   
  Why aren't we in the tube rolling thread to talk about this stuff?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'll have to try those, how much are they going for?
> 
> Why aren't we in the tube rolling thread to talk about this stuff?


 

 I got it for $150, yeah, I can't find someone talking about this tubes.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I'll have to try those, how much are they going for?
> 
> Why aren't we in the tube rolling thread to talk about this stuff?


 

 I found some stuff relates to valvo red label.
   
  Originally Posted by *MrScary* 


  
*Updated list 2*

*Scarys list of the Top 5 and take it for what its worth opinion of tubes to try*

 1. CCa Siemens & Halske grey plate O Getter -- Very rare, Very expensive 400.00 +
 2. CCa Siemens & Halske A Frames --rare, expensive 220.00 +
 2. Valvo CCA E88CC 1966-- rare expensive 180.00 +
 3. Mullard E88CC 1966-- Can get them from Tubemonger for 120.00
 4 Brimar 2492's 60's -- somewhat rare prices can be anywhere between 60.00 and 120.00
 5. Valvo Red Label E88CC -- rare around 120.00

 3,4,5 are just about a tie


*My recommendation for those that have tried the JJ's and the GE's from Schiit is to realize your budget and stick with it*. These recommendations are just my opinion on rolling many tubes
 there are many tubes that I have omitted from this list as they did not either live up to the performance expected or were a bad price performance tube.

*  My recommendations for new Lyr users are as follows*
 1. Mullard E88CC 120.00  Great sound, Airy full bass beautiful mids, warm
 2. Brimar 2492's 60.00 -120.00 Great bass good mids good treble
 3. Mullard IEC's around 80-100 Great bass great mids good treble
 4. GE 6BZ7  20.00 from Schiit your best bet for the GE's
 5. RCA 6BZ7, Sylvania 6BZ7, Great bang for the buck only a couple dollars for each tube via ebay
  6. National Mullard/ tooling japanese tubes -- 60.00 Tube monger
 7. Cryoset 6N23P's --  80.00 from Cryoset
 8. 6N1p's 70's or older -- 20.00 -40.00 ebay or preferably a tube trader


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> I found some stuff relates to valvo red label.
> 
> Originally Posted by *MrScary*
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yeah, MrScary's list is handy, but don't forget Joe's list, that predates MrScary's by a long while!
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8


----------



## toschek

Hey, if you are looking @ USN-CEP don't forget you can use amperex 7308s USN-CEP instead of the 6922, much easier to find and the price is usually a little lower.   I actually think the 7308 is a little more holographic than the 6922, maybe a hair less dynamic, but it has staging and imaging covered.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Hey, if you are looking @ USN-CEP don't forget you can use amperex 7308s USN-CEP instead of the 6922, much easier to find and the price is usually a little lower.   I actually think the 7308 is a little more holographic than the 6922, maybe a hair less dynamic, but it has staging and imaging covered.


 
   
   
  Awesome!  Thanks, I'll keep that in mind!


----------



## toschek

Any idea how the Lyr would do feeding a Hafler power amp? My friend has a nice DH-220 which I've enjoyed with his Wharfdales, considering picking one of these up for $100 while I wait for the statement.


----------



## nelamvr6

I've had a Hafler Power amp previously, but I cant recall the model number.  I do know that Hafler made AWESOME solid state amps!
   
  At that price, can't you afford to gamble?


----------



## gerald410

I hate all you guys lol, Seriously my Bifrost has tracking info and I will be ordering the Lyr and HE-500 in about 2 weeks.  I'm trying to absorb as information as possible( great place to learn). What would be the best choice of stock tubes with the Lyr? Thanks


----------



## paradoxper

GE's no question.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> GE's no question.


 
  Thank you sir


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I hate all you guys lol, Seriously my Bifrost has tracking info and I will be ordering the Lyr and HE-500 in about 2 weeks.  I'm trying to absorb as information as possible( great place to learn). What would be the best choice of stock tubes with the Lyr? Thanks


 
   
   
  Definitely get the GE 6BZ7s, they're really good!  in fact, once they burn in (which can take some time, give them at least 50 hours) I could see myself using them indefinitely, if I didn't already have tubes waiting to try.
   
  The Lyr tube rolling thread is a WEALTH of information.  Be sure to check it out.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Definitely get the GE 6BZ7s, they're really good!  in fact, once they burn in (which can take some time, give them at least 50 hours) I could see myself using them indefinitely, if I didn't already have tubes waiting to try.
> 
> The Lyr tube rolling thread is a WEALTH of information.  Be sure to check it out.


 
  Thanks for the info, I've done quite a bit of reading in that thread very very informative thanks again.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Definitely get the GE 6BZ7s, they're really good!  in fact, once they burn in (which can take some time, give them at least 50 hours) I could see myself using them indefinitely, if I didn't already have tubes waiting to try.
> 
> The Lyr tube rolling thread is a WEALTH of information.  Be sure to check it out.


 
  Forgive me i'm somewhat confused should I try the GE 6BZ7 stock option or spring for the 20 dollar version? thanks


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Forgive me i'm somewhat confused should I try the GE 6BZ7 stock option or spring for the 20 dollar version? thanks


 
   
   
  They are the same tubes.  You can order the Lyr with those as the tubes that come with the amp, or you can order them separately.  Either way, you end up with those tubes.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> They are the same tubes.  You can order the Lyr with those as the tubes that come with the amp, or you can order them separately.  Either way, you end up with those tubes.


 
  Thanks for clearing that up for me! My Bifrost is scheduled to be delivered this upcoming Wed.


----------



## toschek

Not to be all thread police-y but we should keep the tube discussion in the Lyr tube thread so this discussion doesn't get locked


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Not to be all thread police-y but we should keep the tube discussion in the Lyr tube thread so this discussion doesn't get locked


 
  Duly noted


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Not to be all thread police-y but we should keep the tube discussion in the Lyr tube thread so this discussion doesn't get locked


 
  Hodgjy, tell 'em everything is gonna be oook.


----------



## gerald410

I'll be connecting the Bifrost to an E12 until I order the Lyr, I'm wondering what it will sound like? I love my DT990 Pro 250 ohm their just too bright for my taste


----------



## hodgjy

It's fine.  You're talking about Schiit gear, so talk away!  Free speech here!
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hodgjy, tell 'em everything is gonna be oook.


----------



## hodgjy

My replacement A2 is out on the truck for delivery.  The f5 button sure is getting a workout!


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> It's fine.  You're talking about Schiit gear, so talk away!  Free speech here!


 
  That's what I thought! lol


----------



## HiFi1972

Really enjoying my HD650s on the Valhallas. I never thought these could sound that great in the mids no matter what amp I chose. I had tried several SS amps until I read that this tube amp was more neutral and not as "tubey" as others. I've got zero interest in tube rolling and will be ordering a back up set of tubes from these guys soon. Dope schiit, exactly what I needed for these cans, which I had almost written off as dark-sounding and never thought the could improve in that area of the spectrum.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hifi1972 said:


> Really enjoying my HD650s on the Valhallas. I never thought these could sound that great in the mids no matter what amp I chose. I had tried several SS amps until I read that this tube amp was more neutral and not as "tubey" as others. I've got zero interest in tube rolling and will be ordering a back up set of tubes from these guys soon. Dope schiit, exactly what I needed for these cans, which I had almost written off as dark-sounding and never thought the could improve in that area of the spectrum.


 
  I think there are some mods around here to lift that terrible Sennheiser veil.


----------



## NightFlight

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> When I got the Lyr i went a little nuts on tube rolling.  In the end, I like the stock GE's but wish I didn't sell my Lorenz Stuttgart.  I may try the Gold Lions which are said to be a little better than the GE's and I'll probably stop there. The GE's really need 30-60 minutes to sound their best.  Really, you don't need to tube roll and just enjoy the Lyr.  But, this is Head-Fi and that wouldn't be any fun!


 
   
  AHA! What. I thought I was nuts! I've found that even broken in tubes can take a day to get sweet. Maybe I'm too critical.


----------



## MickeyVee

Wow, that's an old post when I was a Lyr newbie.  After breaking in the tubes, usually 30-50 hours or so, I definitely give them time to warm up.  Now favouring the Amperex Orange Globe and pretty much let the Lyr run for a couple of hours before critical listening. I don't hear much of a difference after a couple of hours.  
   
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> AHA! What. I thought I was nuts! I've found that even broken in tubes can take a day to get sweet. Maybe I'm too critical.


----------



## rwelles

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I think there are some mods around here to lift that terrible Sennheiser veil.


 
  I've found that if you "pop" off the ear pads and remove the foam insert that covers the driver, the "veil" is lifted. Of course, that leaves the drivers vulnerable to damage. This weekend, I replaced the foam inserts with nylon. I bought some cheap "knee-highs", placed the ear pads in the nylon, popped them back in place, then cut away the excess. Easy and inexpensive ($3) mod. Took about five minutes.


----------



## HiFi1972

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I think there are some mods around here to lift that terrible Sennheiser veil.


 

 I should have mentioned, I've done all the mods. I ended up putting the foam covering the drivers back because I felt it skewed the low end a bit (also tried panty hoses, but liked them better with the foam; I felt the panty hose phased the sound a tad bit). Removing the small foam pieces from the back of the drivers opened them up quite a bit and I liked them much more after doing so. I also built my own cable and thought the imaging improved a bit (the stock cable isn't bad but it's definitely not the best quality). After all the mods were done, I still felt the mids were a bit scooped. The Valhalla has really made these complete in my book!


----------



## gerald410

I want my Bifrost! lol,  It's scheduled to arrive Weds(slow Fed Ex!). I will be ordering the Lyr and He-500 in about 2 weeks, it will the longest 2 weeks of my life lol. Can anyone recommend aftermarket cabling for my soon to be purchased cans thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

Don't waste your money on cables.
   
  1) There is little difference, if any at all, to be gained from re-cabling.
   
  2) The money spent on cables is better suited to buying better headphones or better amps.
   
  3) If you could hear the difference between cables, if it's even possible, then why are you buying a $450 amp?  You should be in getting amps in the $thousands and should use the cables as the last fine-tuning mechanism.
   
  4) Read up on expectation bias.  It's the reason why audio companies selling cables worth more than their weight in gold exist.
   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I want my Bifrost! lol,  It's scheduled to arrive Weds(slow Fed Ex!). I will be ordering the Lyr and He-500 in about 2 weeks, it will the longest 2 weeks of my life lol. *Can anyone recommend aftermarket cabling for my soon to be purchased cans thanks.*


----------



## toschek

gerald410 said:


> I want my Bifrost! lol,  It's scheduled to arrive Weds(slow Fed Ex!). I will be ordering the Lyr and He-500 in about 2 weeks, it will the longest 2 weeks of my life lol. Can anyone recommend aftermarket cabling for my soon to be purchased cans thanks.




Not to pile on here, but I always thought HE-500s always had one of the better stock cables out there. Personally, I would not bother with cable changes unless you wanted to go to a balanced config or use speaker taps.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Not to pile on here, but I always thought HE-500s always had one of the better stock cables out there. Personally, I would not bother with cable changes unless you wanted to go to a balanced config or use speaker taps.


 
   
  Only issue I have with them is that they are stiffer than I would like.  I can also hear them when I turn my head on softer sections of the music (not in the music but as the cables scrape against each other).  Might have to put a sock on them...
   
  But I agree max out the amp, source, etc.  before spending anything on the cable.


----------



## Greystaff

I am trying to make this brief, but it is hard! Basically i listen to a wide range of music. Classic, symphonic metal, classic rock such as Genesis and Queen. Also mostly vocal music such as Gordon Lightfoot.  I am mostly interested in a brighter sound with good clarity between the instruments and good vocals. Bass should not be overbearing, but controlled and smooth. From what I have read, the HE-500 seems to be almost perfect. Especially with the high power requirements for that. The biggest problem I am having now with my current headphones is that they require too little power. I have the magni turned to about six o'clock. If I turn it any lower, the sound in the two earpieces becomes unbalanced. Turning it up any is going to be uncomfortable. That is with my HD650. With my Monster Inspirations, I have to turn the volume in iTunes quite a bit lower.
   
  The question is what I should do from here:
  1) Wait for my order of my Hifiman HE-500s to come in. I ordered them from Head-Direct on Tuesday of last week. They are stuck in Paid, Waiting for shipment. They say they should be shipping in the next couple of days, but I am not that comfortable whether or not that is true.
   
  2) Cancel my order and enjoy the HD650 and Monster Inspirations. Order some attenuators to make it easier to use my headsets. Believe or not, the Inspirations are really not bad headphones. The biggest issue is that they become very uncomfortable with louder music due to the pressure created by the music. They are too small and do not enough room to release the pressure
   
  3) Cancel my order and wait a month or so. Order some attenuators to make it easier to use my headsets. Then order some Mrspeakers Mad Dog headphones


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





greystaff said:


> I am trying to make this brief, but it is hard! Basically i listen to a wide range of music. Classic, symphonic metal, classic rock such as Genesis and Queen. Also mostly vocal music such as Gordon Lightfoot.  I am mostly interested in a brighter sound with good clarity between the instruments and good vocals. Bass should not be overbearing, but controlled and smooth. From what I have read, the HE-500 seems to be almost perfect. Especially with the high power requirements for that. The biggest problem I am having now with my current headphones is that they require too little power. I have the magni turned to about six o'clock. If I turn it any lower, the sound in the two earpieces becomes unbalanced. Turning it up any is going to be uncomfortable. That is with my HD650. With my Monster Inspirations, I have to turn the volume in iTunes quite a bit lower.
> 
> The question is what I should do from here:
> 1) Wait for my order of my Hifiman HE-500s to come in. I ordered them from Head-Direct on Tuesday of last week. They are stuck in Paid, Waiting for shipment. They say they should be shipping in the next couple of days, but I am not that comfortable whether or not that is true.
> ...


 
  Have you auditioned the HE500? I have them and they are, to me, heavier on the bass and it is not crisp, running on the Magni, they are better on the Asgard 2, but not as good as the HD650's or HD800's.
   
  I bought attenuattors to help with the Magni volme pot issue (12dB) the recommended ones I saw on another post were about 16dB.
   
  This is my experience, YMMV.


----------



## Greystaff

Wish I could try the HE-500s, but nobody around me has them. So I have had to order them based on what I have read. So far, my decision will likely be either 2 or 3 (cancel the HE-500s). I still think I would like them, but I think I have spent enough on things. I like the HD650s more and more as I listen to them. Currently listening to Metallica Death Magnetic and kind of like how they sound. And metal is not my favorite type of music. I like it, but prefer more vocal oriented music. Plus they are just getting more and more comfortable to me. I will decide tonight what to do.

 Thanks!


----------



## Radioking59

^^^ Contact Schitt. Your Magni might be defective. You should only have channel imbalance at the lowest levels. Jason just posted about it in the Magni thread. 
   
  Also I wouldn't be making any decisions based upon Death Magnetic. It is notorious for being one of the most compressed crappy sounding CDs ever made.


----------



## bearFNF

The Asgard 2 really did wonders for the HD650, lifted most of the veil I was hearing with the Magni.


----------



## Greystaff

I don't think the imbalance is all that dramatic. It only appears up to about 6 oclock on the volume. It is just that the headphones, including the HD650, do not require that much volume. Where it is sounds pretty good with the HD650 with a little turn down on the iTunes. I will though keep an eye on in to see if the imbalance gets any worse like the other poster's did. I don't think so. I have had them for about two or three weeks, and things have not changed. Overall pretty happy with the new HD650. Just want to be able to get rid of having to adjust iTunes, and the attenuators would do that. Or a more power hungry headphone. As far as Death Magnetic, for someone like me, it sounded pretty decent. I am trying to go through every type of genre I listen to even slightly. I am almost 100% likely to cancel the HE-500s. This is a good enough setup for now.


----------



## Radioking59

I don't know. If you have channel imbalance on the HD 650 it sounds like it is defective to me.  The HD 650 requires more juice than most headphones. If it was just on IEMs then I could see your point.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> I don't know. If you have channel imbalance on the HD 650 it sounds like it is defective to me.  The HD 650 requires more juice than most headphones. If it was just on IEMs then I could see your point.


 
  Duh.. that's right, I missed that, as I remember it is mostly the IEMs that were having trouble with the imbalance issue at low pot positions.


----------



## Greystaff

Posted a question on that in the other Magni thread.. Now a bit confused, honestly. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I still really like my setup and would really miss it if I had to send it off. The HD650 does take more power than my Inspirations, but not enough to really let me stop using the iTunes volume to get everything under control. The issue has not proven, though, enough to make me change my mind on canceling the HE-500s. The Sennheisers plus the Inspirations offer enough variation for now for me. The more I listen to them, the more I like them both. The Inspirations have a bit more bass for the quieter music, the Sennheisers a bit more detail for most music. Like them both. Thanks for your help.


----------



## toschek

I too was interested in HE-500s, but when I heard about the lack of soundstage I decided against them. If I want a warmer, more intimate performance I can just pop in the 6N23P tubes and I suddenly don't care. $40 in tubes vs. $500 or so for headphones I'll use once in a while ... the question answers itself.


----------



## toschek

Before Iamnothim self-immolated, did he ever get around to leaving impressions re: Lyr/ Audioengine A2 pairing, esp. while using the Lyr as a pre?

I am debating two courses of action at the moment, and it kind of hinges on the Lyr's performance as a tube pre-amp (except for Option A)

Option A is to suck it up, wait for the integrated Schiit, get frustrated that I can't use my painstakingly acquired 6dj8 collection, sell both my Lyr and tube collection and ultimately be happy with the hybrid integrated Schiit.

Option B as I see it - purchase any number of Chinese made 300B, 2a3 or 45 based SET amps, use the Lyr as a pretty feeding one of these guys who will be feeding a pair of Zus. Try to find an amp guru who can look at the circuit and improve some areas with cap upgrades and wiring improvements. 

Option C sell Lyr, keep Bifrost & upgrade to a 1st tier integrated with an integrated HP amp. This is my least favored option, simply because of how much I've come to love the Lyr.

So what do you guys think? Like I say, I love my Lyr (which makes me desperately want option B to be a viable solution), but I do want to get our living room 2 ch system up to date. We haven't had music in the house for over a year because neither of us can stand direct mode with sattelite/sub HT config. Ideally, I want to find a role for the Lyr in the setup, along with the Zu speakers and a nice, low output amp. I've been eyeing these Bowei, Music Angel and other brand amps and I just don't know what to think other than be overly skeptical probably. I mean $650 for a 300B SET amp? I can't believe its not just a couple of soup cans painted black with two 40w lightbulbs strapped to the top and an IKEA power strip :rolleyes:


----------



## eddiek997

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I too was interested in HE-500s, but when I heard about the lack of soundstage I decided against them. If I want a warmer, more intimate performance I can just pop in the 6N23P tubes and I suddenly don't care. $40 in tubes vs. $500 or so for headphones I'll use once in a while ... the question answers itself.


 

*and if I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor.*
   
  Try a set of jergpad modded HE500's with Siemens CCa tubes in the Lyr and you'll see what soundstage in headphones can be (amongst many other positive attributes).
   
  The HE500's are worth every penny and hold their value well when it comes to resale.
   
  This combo is not headphone endgame but neither is the price, for the money spent, the above combination is very very tough to beat.


----------



## disastermouse

greystaff said:


> I don't think the imbalance is all that dramatic. It only appears up to about 6 oclock on the volume. It is just that the headphones, including the HD650, do not require that much volume. Where it is sounds pretty good with the HD650 with a little turn down on the iTunes. I will though keep an eye on in to see if the imbalance gets any worse like the other poster's did. I don't think so. I have had them for about two or three weeks, and things have not changed. Overall pretty happy with the new HD650. Just want to be able to get rid of having to adjust iTunes, and the attenuators would do that. Or a more power hungry headphone. As far as Death Magnetic, for someone like me, it sounded pretty decent. I am trying to go through every type of genre I listen to even slightly. I am almost 100% likely to cancel the HE-500s. This is a good enough setup for now.



I wouldn't cancel the HE-500. I started with the HD650 as well and the HE-500 are a BIG jump up in sound, especially with the Magni.


----------



## hodgjy

I keep looking at the HE-500, but I always chicken out.  I try to convince myself that I don't need them because they have an almost identical frequency response curve as my DT-990/600.  I keep telling myself that.....it's working for now.  For now.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I keep looking at the HE-500, but I always chicken out.  I try to convince myself that I don't need them because they have an almost identical frequency response curve as my DT-990/600.  I keep telling myself that.....it's working for now.  For now.


 
  Makes it two of us. I have the 400 and the LCD 2.2 and still..... It must be the company we keep


----------



## eddiek997

hodgjy said:


> I keep looking at the HE-500, but I always chicken out.  I try to convince myself that I don't need them because they have an almost identical frequency response curve as my DT-990/600.  I keep telling myself that.....it's working for now.  For now.




Resistance is futile. 
Graphs are one thing, your own two ears are another...

I bought mine from Audio Advisors and they offer 30day return policy. Worth trying.


----------



## kothganesh

Question for Asgard (1) owners in particular:
   
  Does the dial turned up at the 12 o'clock position "too loud" a setting ? I know this is purely subjective but at any setting lower than this I am not able to get that good instrument separation nor a wider soundstage. This observation is for both my ortho headphones (HE 400 and LCD 2.2). Is this good or bad ? Would love to get your views.
   
  Thanks


----------



## hodgjy

The position of the volume dial is the function of impedance and sensitivity.  Also, your own hearing ability.  Move the dial without fear, just as long as it's not too loud to the point you risk damaging your hearing.
   
  Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Question for Asgard (1) owners in particular:
> 
> Does the dial turned up at the 12 o'clock position "too loud" a setting ? I know this is purely subjective but at any setting lower than this I am not able to get that good instrument separation nor a wider soundstage. This observation is for both my ortho headphones (HE 400 and LCD 2.2). Is this good or bad ? Would love to get your views.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Greystaff

Quote: 





eddiek997 said:


> Resistance is futile.
> Graphs are one thing, your own two ears are another...
> 
> I bought mine from Audio Advisors and they offer 30day return policy. Worth trying.


 
  Yeah. Wish I had gone that route. I thought buying directly from Head Direct was a good bet. So far, I would pretty much say it has been a less than stellar experience. First of all, they apparently do not know what they have in stock. I ended up getting an email that night at 1am saying it was out of stock. When I replied asking if I would at least get it by the next Friday, the response again didn't come until the next morning. They said it would be. I did not hear anything much afterwards until I decided to go ahead and get an HD650 locally. Satisfied with it for now, i asked to cancel it Monday night. I got an email later in the morning that it had already shipped. Okay, I think, I wanted it. It sounded like the perfect set for me. So I was okay with that. Except I then learn that it had NOT shipped until later that night. Not only that, it had shipped past the shipping deadline. So I am not getting it until next Monday. Over two weeks after I ordered an item that I thought was in stock. Adding to that, the shipping destination per Fed Ex is Drive, TX. I don't think there IS a Drive, TX. I have mentioned this to customer service twice, but no change to the destination. Getting a bit uncomfortable not knowing where my $700 item is going to. Add to that the fact that, once it gets to the US, it will end up in the USPS hands. I cannot divert it to my local Fed Ex center like I could if it truly was a Fed Ex delivery. So I might be home to receive it. Or not. I will hopefully have someone here to get it. Not really sure what I will do now when I get it. I do not really like giving money to a company that fails to meet my expectations as much as they have. I would say that this has been the worst online purchase I have made. Only time will tell.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Don't waste your money on cables.
> 
> 1) There is little difference, if any at all, to be gained from re-cabling.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> Not to pile on here, but I always thought HE-500s always had one of the better stock cables out there. Personally, I would not bother with cable changes unless you wanted to go to a balanced config or use speaker taps.


 
  Hey it's ok, I can take it especially if it makes sense and it saves me money thanks for the advice.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I keep looking at the HE-500, but I always chicken out.  I try to convince myself that I don't need them because they have an almost identical frequency response curve as my DT-990/600.  I keep telling myself that.....it's working for now.  For now.


 
  I'm going for it! (He-500) with the Lyr. I currently have DT-990pro/250 which I love, but they can be a bit bright at times. My bifrost will be here tomorrow(yay!).


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> I'm going for it! (He-500) with the Lyr.


 
   
  I'm doing this too.  The Asgard 2 hum cost me $800! I had no intention of getting new headphones until I wasn't happy with the A2 and started looking for another amp.


----------



## gerald410

My Bifrost finally arrived. Initially had a devil of a time getting it up and running via toslink to my computer. Finally had to set Foobar output to Wasapi(event) to get output. Coming from the e17 Dac im impressed!! Not sure But Wasapi (push) sounds fuller to me.


----------



## Lemz

My Modi & Magni just arrived. They have been burning in for the last 10 hours and are sounding very nice. I've been struggling to get the Modi working under linux but now everything is fine. Soon I'll explain here what I did. So far so good!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> My Bifrost finally arrived. Initially had a devil of a time getting it up and running via toslink to my computer. Finally had to set Foobar output to Wasapi(event) to get output. Coming from the e17 Dac im impressed!! Not sure But Wasapi (push) sounds fuller to me.


 
   
   
  I've been using WASAPI Event for months with J River, and I haven't noticed and problems with SQ...


----------



## gerald410

I'm using event as well now, It seemed like the Bifrost couldn't get a lock until I went to Wasapi, but all is well now


----------



## hodgjy

WASAPI is the best if you're using Windows 7 or 8.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> WASAPI is the best if you're using Windows 7 or 8.


 
  Yep running windows 8, did your Asgard 2 arrive?, If so can I have it? lol


----------



## hodgjy

My A2 did arrive, but, unfortunately, that one also had transformer hum.  So, back it went for a refund.
   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Yep running windows 8, did your Asgard 2 arrive?, If so can I have it? lol


----------



## MickeyVee

Not sure if this has been posted before but here goes..
   
  Just got the Apple Camera Connection Kit for my iPad Mini so I thought, what the heck..
  Let's see if it works with the Bifrost..Yes!! 
   
  iPhone 5.. Fail!! 
   
  Not a use case for me but may be of interest to others.


----------



## bearFNF

^^^^ Yep, I though as much...but then it also does not work with android, but not a big deal as it was for my laptop anyway.


----------



## nostrata

Quote: 





lemz said:


> My Modi & Magni just arrived. They have been burning in for the last 10 hours and are sounding very nice. I've been struggling to get the Modi working under linux but now everything is fine. Soon I'll explain here what I did. So far so good!


 
  What distro are you using? I'm running mint and that is the thing that is giving me pause in picking one of these up. Good to know that it is working though, interested to know what was involved in the set-up. Also, would it be better to get the bifrost and use the optical port as far as Linux compatibility goes?


----------



## Lemz

nostrata said:


> What distro are you using? I'm running mint and that is the thing that is giving me pause in picking one of these up. Good to know that it is working though, interested to know what was involved in the set-up. Also, would it be better to get the bifrost and use the optical port as far as Linux compatibility goes?


 

   
   
  I'm using Debian Wheezy. Basically, in order to get the things working, I've had to upgrade the kernel to 3.8.2. 
   
  If you are already running a 3.8.x kernel, probably there'll be no setup, just plug and play. I can't comment on Bifrost, but if your main concern is linux compatibility, Modi is a suitable choice.


----------



## toschek

I have been wondering if Bifrost will work at 24/192 with Linux under USB as well but I've been too lazy to even try it with my Mint VM. I'll mess with it and let you know though.

Edit: Bifrost was 100% PnP with Linux Mint 14, just had to select it in the sound preferences. I would have to do some fiddling around to get 24/192 working I assume, but out of the box it is working OK.


----------



## Shep Tx

I received my Schiit on Monday!
   
  The Magni, PYST and Bifost are my first  pieces of Schiit. I took the Magni on a trip with me this week and used it with my Audioengine D1. The Magni made a big difference in the sound over the D1 internal amplifier. The brightness of my Sen HD 280 pro was toned down and the bass was stronger. I hope to get a chance to spend time with the Bifrost this weekend and see what improvements it has in store.
   
  I will pair the Magni with the D1 for my travel/hotel rig and pair it with the Bifrost for home. Now I can start shopping for some quality cans!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

Cool man congrats on the new schiit, and welcome to the forum


----------



## awsanderson

anyone listening to lcd2's on their Lyr?  thoughts?


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





awsanderson said:


> anyone listening to lcd2's on their Lyr?  thoughts?


 
   
  Match in heaven!


----------



## awsanderson

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Match in heaven!


 
  thanks


----------



## Jaxblack11

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but does anyone here know if asgard 1 or 2 can handle 600 ohms. I'm thinking about getting the Beyer dt880's with 600 ohms.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jaxblack11 said:


> Sorry if this question has been asked before, but does anyone here know if asgard 1 or 2 can handle 600 ohms. I'm thinking about getting the Beyer dt880's with 600 ohms.


 
   
  Asgard 2 outputs 190mw into 600 ohms.
   
  600 ohm version of DT880 only requires 100mw, so plenty of power to spare.


----------



## Jaxblack11

Thanks!!


----------



## hodgjy

Also, keep in mind that higher impedance loads are easier on the amps themselves.  Amps won't blow up under high impedance loads.  In fact, true class A amps stay cooler when pushing high impedance loads.  The only issue is if the volume will be load enough on some amps.
   
  Quote: 





jaxblack11 said:


> Sorry if this question has been asked before, but does anyone here know if asgard 1 or 2 can handle 600 ohms. I'm thinking about getting the Beyer dt880's with 600 ohms.


----------



## Jaxblack11

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Also, keep in mind that higher impedance loads are easier on the amps themselves.  Amps won't blow up under high impedance loads.  In fact, true class A amps stay cooler when pushing high impedance loads.  The only issue is if the volume will be load enough on some amps.


 
  So you can actually damage an amp if you push it too hard with low impedance cans? Kinda scary, I always thought it was just speakers and headphones that would blow from too much power.


----------



## nostrata

Quote: 





lemz said:


> I'm using Debian Wheezy. Basically, in order to get the things working, I've had to upgrade the kernel to 3.8.2.
> 
> If you are already running a 3.8.x kernel, probably there'll be no setup, just plug and play. I can't comment on Bifrost, but if your main concern is linux compatibility, Modi is a suitable choice.


 
   
  Quote: 





toschek said:


> I have been wondering if Bifrost will work at 24/192 with Linux under USB as well but I've been too lazy to even try it with my Mint VM. I'll mess with it and let you know though.
> 
> Edit: Bifrost was 100% PnP with Linux Mint 14, just had to select it in the sound preferences. I would have to do some fiddling around to get 24/192 working I assume, but out of the box it is working OK.


 
  Thanks for this info. Puts me at ease. I'll be joining the schiit club soon


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jaxblack11 said:


> So you can actually damage an amp if you push it too hard with low impedance cans? Kinda scary, I always thought it was just speakers and headphones that would blow from too much power.


 
   
  The best way to think of it, the amp doesn't push power into your headphones, rather your headphones suck power from the amp.
   
  Lower impedance cans suck harder and thus put more strain on the amp.
   
  That's my understanding of it.


----------



## hodgjy

If you use headphones with too low of an impedance, yes, it's technically possible to damage the amp.  This is why amp manufacturers usually put a minimum impedance rating on them, usually 8, 16, or 32 ohm loads.  A lot more goes into these ratings, such as damping, but you get the point.  But, saying all that, it's going to be extremely rare that you damage any amp driving any headphone these days.
   
  Quote: 





jaxblack11 said:


> So you can actually damage an amp if you push it too hard with low impedance cans? Kinda scary, I always thought it was just speakers and headphones that would blow from too much power.


----------



## hodgjy

I could be totally wrong about this, so I'm open to being corrected, but I think you have it backwards.  The amp does the pushing because that is the active device.  There's nothing active about headphones that can draw current.  The amp pushes into the headphones, and the resistance to being pushed is measured in ohms.  
   
  Anyone else care to chime in and set the record straight?
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The best way to think of it, the amp doesn't push power into your headphones, rather your headphones suck power from the amp.
> 
> Lower impedance cans suck harder and thus put more strain on the amp.
> 
> That's my understanding of it.


----------



## nelamvr6

Current is never pushed.  Current is drawn.
   
  The amp applies a voltage across the input to the headphones, current is subsequently drawn.
   
  The amount of current that is drawn is dependent on the voltage applied and the impedance of the headphone circuit.   I=E/R, or in the case of headphones, I=E/Z, since headphones present at least some reactive impedance to the circuit.


----------



## GrindingThud

Ummmmm, how about current flows... From one potential in the amp, through the load, and back into the other potential in the amp. If the load does not present enough resistance to flow....too much flows and things break down. Opposite can be true too with transformer amps. If there is too small a load, the voltage can get too high and things arc over. Never play a tube amp too loud without a load....


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Ummmmm, how about current flows... From one potential in the amp, through the load, and back into the other potential in the amp. If the load does not present enough resistance to flow....too much flows and things break down. Opposite can be true too with transformer amps. If there is too small a load, the voltage can get too high and things arc over. Never play a tube amp too loud without a load....


 
   
  How could I disagree?  Nothing you posted in any way contradicted anything I posted, yes?


----------



## GrindingThud

Indeed, we are all saying the same thing.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





grindingthud said:


> Indeed, we are all saying the same thing.


----------



## gerald410

Woah I got some cables from blue jean cable (Toslink and RCA male to 1/8 plug). The backdrop for me is[size=x-small]* *definitely darker.[/size]


----------



## Johnnyhi

*Schiit Statement Dac is out.......*
   
   

   
  JK... i wonder when will the Statement dac come out...


----------



## HydronQc

If your looking for some small isolation feets.
  http://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-SORBOTHANE-HEMISPHERE-1-2-12mm-VIBRATION-ISOLATION-FEET-MINI-PODS-SMALL-/251232796378?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item3a7ea43eda&_uhb=1#ht_1537wt_1398


----------



## Llloyd

Yes I am curious about the statement DAC for sure.  I'm almost certain I won't have any cash to burn when releases.


----------



## Radioking59

There's some new Schiit I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, PYST USB cables. No pictures are posted but it is a 1 meter silver plated copper cable for $20.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> There's some new Schitt I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, PYST USB cables. No pictures are posted but it is a 1 meter silver plated copper cable for $20.


 
   
  Sounds interesting.


----------



## kwonberry

Initial impressions of the MnM stack that just arrived today. They clear up a little congestion on the Vmoda m-100's (though it's really a non-issue as they are almost entirely for on the go use). I don't really listen to music through my Sennheiser HD 558's (a select few genres work nice though) and in all likelihood they will continue their function for gaming/skype/movie use. 
   
  Now the real test is the Hifiman he-400's that are taking an eternity to arrive.


----------



## kwonberry

Also, is anyone else's power plug on the back of the Magni a little finicky? The tiniest movement and it loses power. Not sure if it's a design issue or a defect in mine?


----------



## Johnnyhi

Quote: 





radioking59 said:


> There's some new Schitt I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, PYST USB cables. No pictures are posted but it is a 1 meter silver plated copper cable for $20.


 
  Nice, i wonder if they will also do 6 inchers.... to keep things tidy....


----------



## areinike

Here's my Schiit ... power supply died and volume knob broke off with in a 1/2 hour's ofuse ... I'd say less than 30 minutes.
   
   

   






  Son of a ....


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

kwonberry said:


> Also, is anyone else's power plug on the back of the Magni a little finicky? The tiniest movement and it loses power. Not sure if it's a design issue or a defect in mine?




That would be a defect IMO, I have transported mine more than a few times with no problems plugging and unplugging the power supply


----------



## Johnnyhi

Wow... Man you raped that magni hard... 
   
  jokes aside.... thats rare, was it loose when you first got it.?


----------



## areinike

Quote: 





johnnyhi said:


> Wow... Man you raped that magni hard...
> 
> jokes aside.... thats rare, was it loose when you first got it.?


 
  I think you're talking to me.  IF so, yes, it seemed loose from the beginning - a little sloppy.  I jiggled it to see what was going on and it just wiggled out.  Seems to be held in by four little metal clips - probably and easy fix but I'll let them fix it for me.  As far as the power connection goes, mine felt fine, just the power supply itself died.  16VDC power supplies I don't have laying around


----------



## areinike

I'm looking at it now, I think the volume knob assembly was at fault.  Looking at the amp (and I can actually see it in the picture), the tab on the lower left is pressed all of the way down where as the other 3 are not.   Like the 3 tabs were holding to the knob itself and the 4th wasn't - which a). make the knob look crooked (as it did) and b.) make it so the other 3 didn't really have a good grip on it.  Seems like an easy fix but if I'm sending it in, I don't want to mess with it.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, I'd just email them and send it in.  I'm sure they will take care of you.
   
  I have no such issues with my M&M after carting them all over the place.


----------



## areinike

I just realized the power supply is 16VAC, not DC.  The amp won't turn on and the power supply does measure about 18VAC.  It'll definitely be going back - sounds like something internal went bonkers.  Bum deal.


----------



## Johnnyhi

Quote: 





areinike said:


> I'm looking at it now, I think the volume knob assembly was at fault.  Looking at the amp (and I can actually see it in the picture), the tab on the lower left is pressed all of the way down where as the other 3 are not.   Like the 3 tabs were holding to the knob itself and the 4th wasn't - which a). make the knob look crooked (as it did) and b.) make it so the other 3 didn't really have a good grip on it.  Seems like an easy fix but if I'm sending it in, I don't want to mess with it.


 
I guess that magni didn't like the way you handle it. Good luck with your next unit


----------



## areinike

Maybe too much Tom Petty ... was jammin fine then!


----------



## Johnnyhi

Quote: 





areinike said:


> Maybe too much Tom Petty ... was jammin fine then!


 
   Nice taste in music...


----------



## kwonberry

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Yep, I'd just email them and send it in.  I'm sure they will take care of you.
> 
> I have no such issues with my M&M after carting them all over the place.


 
  To be fair its not like I'm dancing with the M&M's on my hip its just that the connection is very narrow and pulling on the cord even slightly it loses power.
   
  Or was this in reference to broken knob guy


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





kwonberry said:


> To be fair its not like I'm dancing with the M&M's on my hip its just that the connection is very narrow and pulling on the cord even slightly it loses power.
> 
> Or was this in reference to broken knob guy


 
  Mostly broken knob guy.  But also to you aboit emailing Schiit.  In my experience Jason responds pretty quickly.


----------



## thecansmancan

Hey everyone, so I have a question. Now the new Modi. Those stats, and that price, WOW. Just, wow. But I'm curious have any of you encountered another DAC at the price that can match the stats and performance of the Modi?
   
  I know there's the ODAC and the MSII but they both seem to retail for about $50 more and as I've heard those two sound nearly identical. How does the Modi stack up?
   
  Thanks so much.


----------



## areinike

Indeed he does. We'll get it resolved. He already responded last night. Very cool.

Signed,
The broken knob guy

Lol-had to


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





areinike said:


> Indeed he does. We'll get it resolved. He already responded last night. Very cool.
> 
> Signed,
> The broken knob guy
> ...


 
  Heh...good to hear, knob Uh..I mean, areinike


----------



## areinike

Even the Magni ran a bit warm.  That tells me it's working!


----------



## areinike

Wait, I responded to the wrong post ... oops.


----------



## gerald410

Just ordered my Lyr! (back in stock).


----------



## Mattjh90

Anyone have a picture of the PYST USB cable??


----------



## MasterBlaster7

Schiit BiFrost...Big and Tall tenderfeet....super sonic stabalizers...good combo im breaking in right now.  150-200 ish hours on my BiFrost.


----------



## hodgjy

Should be broken in by now.  Enjoy the music.
   
  Quote: 





masterblaster7 said:


> Schiit BiFrost...Big and Tall tenderfeet....super sonic stabalizers...good combo im breaking in right now.  150-200 ish hours on my BiFrost.


----------



## Alexein Aner

Quote: 





mattjh90 said:


> Anyone have a picture of the PYST USB cable??


 
  I've ordered one today so I will hopefully be able to upload one within the next couple days.


----------



## gerald410

gerald410 said:


> Just ordered my Lyr! (back in stock).





Bifrost/Lyr is now full effect. Very nice thru He-500. Time for some burn-in. Signing out!


----------



## hodgjy

Get ready for many nights staying up past your bed time.
   
  Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Bifrost/Lyr is now full effect. Very nice thru He-500. Time for some burn-in. Signing out!


----------



## Johnnyhi

Quote: 





alexein aner said:


> I've ordered one today so I will hopefully be able to upload one within the next couple days.


 
  Hey Alexein did you got the cables.?


----------



## gerald410

hodgjy said:


> Get ready for many nights staying up past your bed time.





Yeah I know lol


----------



## claud W

Waiting patiently for FedEx to deliver Lyr and Bifrost today.


----------



## hodgjy

The F5 button will be getting a workout!
   
  Quote: 





claud w said:


> Waiting patiently for FedEx to deliver Lyr and Bifrost today.


----------



## Alexein Aner

Quote: 





johnnyhi said:


> Hey Alexein did you got the cables.?


 
  I haven't unfortunately. I'm not sure if it's due to holiday scheduling but for $ 30 in shipping costs I'm disappointed. I don't often purchase things online but in my experience w/ amazon.com, I've received shipments within the week at no additional cost. Hoping to have it in by Tuesday or I'm snapping pencils [/rant fini].


----------



## Byronb

I have had my Bifrost/Valhala for awhile now they are paired with HD600's. I must say this setup is absolutely stunning!! I listen mostly to Rock and I know that lots of people complain about the lack of bass from the 600's. But, with this pairing the 600 really shines. I am loving it!!!! 
   
  The only thing I would say is that, when I first acquired the amp/dac combo they had approximately 100 hours on them, The sound was really not to my liking for another 300 or so hours. The combo needs a significant amount of burn-in. So if you are expecting them to be magical right out of the box you will be disappointed. Put on some pink noise and let them get settled for 400 hours or so and you will be amazed. Thank you Schiit for making a product that produces incredible results without having to spend a couple of house payments for the pleasure. 
   
  You have a fan for life.


----------



## solserenade

hodgjy said:


> Get ready for many nights staying up past your bed time.




Happens essentially every time I put on the 
phones for a good listen. Often until dawn. 

There are worse habits!


----------



## solserenade

Good to hear, Byronb! … and good info.


----------



## kothganesh

Hello Lyr owners,
   
  Got myself a Lyr yesterday with stock GEs. If this question has been asked before, I apologize. The question is: what sort of a time frame should I expect to expect for the tubes to "mature" and the SQ to hopefully settle at a better level. BTW, I have a Bifrost as the DAC.
   
  Thanks


----------



## gerald410

kothganesh said:


> Hello Lyr owners,
> 
> Got myself a Lyr yesterday with stock GEs. If this question has been asked before, I apologize. The question is: what sort of a time frame should I expect to expect for the tubes to "mature" and the SQ to hopefully settle at a better level. BTW, I have a Bifrost as the DAC.
> 
> Thanks



Im no expert but I've got the same set up, i'm probably about 20 hours in and im pretty impressed.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Hello Lyr owners,
> 
> Got myself a Lyr yesterday with stock GEs. If this question has been asked before, I apologize. The question is: what sort of a time frame should I expect to expect for the tubes to "mature" and the SQ to hopefully settle at a better level. BTW, I have a Bifrost as the DAC.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  10-100hrs
   
  It's really a matter of opinion.
   
  Changes will be very subtle.


----------



## markm1

Has anyone tried using a Bifrost as an external DAC for a Sonos system?
   
  I'm putting together my first HP rig and upgrading my stereo at the same time. I've got my stereo speaker system adjacent to my PC in a computer room sharing a router for streaming.
   
  As I'm looking at DACs for HP purposes, I'm wondering if, in addition to using a Bifrost w/ my PC, if it would be possible to add a Bifrost to this chain: router-Sonos Connect-Bifrost-stereo receiver. I've been told the DACs on Sonos aren't the best and a lot of people end up buying DACS to add to their Sonos and I'm curious if you could potentially do that w/ a Bifrost. My sense is people who add external dedicated DACS to their Sonos end up shelling out substanial more coin than a Bifrost-maybe $1,000-1500'ish. I believe I would need to use coax digital output.
   
  Or, PC-Bifrost-receiver. I know streamers like the HRT products can connect a PC as a source directly to a receiver and stream from PC-streamer through receiver and speakers, but I don't know if you can w/ schiit products.  I don't have a DAC or Sonos yet, so I thought I'd ask any of you who might own both.
   
  Currently, I've got Grado 225i and an Asgard-2 on back order.
   
  Just looking at options 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thx!


----------



## rdaneel

markm1, if you already have the Sonos setup, I can see why you would want to do the external DAC.  External DACs, especially a well-respected one like Bifrost, are typically much better than those in the streamers.  I use an external DAC with my primary Squeezebox.  What would you be using for a HP amp?  My only question about your setup is how you would feed both a HP amp and your receiver from the Bifrost, or are you using the receiver as the HP amp?  If your receiver has an analog output you could probably go analog out from the receiver to your HP amp without any real issue (assuming the receiver doesn't totally suck!).
   
  As for PC-Bifrost-receiver, that would work if you have the Bifrost's USB module.  Lots of considerations there (like music software, setup, and support for asynchronous USB connections or high resolution music files), so you'll have to do some more research into the specifics.  The short answer is that people do use the Bifrost as a USB DAC.


----------



## toschek

markm1 said:


> Has anyone tried using a Bifrost as an external DAC for a Sonos system?
> 
> I'm putting together my first HP rig and upgrading my stereo at the same time. I've got my stereo speaker system adjacent to my PC in a computer room sharing a router for streaming.
> 
> ...




Yes, I run my Bifrost from my PC into a receiver. I have no problems with it. I don't know a lot about the Sonos and whether or not it allows you to set an outgoing sample rate/bit depth, so most likely everything you'd send to the Bifrost from it would be sent at 44.1/16 but if that isn't a problem there is no reason the Bifrost wouldn't work. The Bifrost doesn't need to be attached to a PC/MAC to function at all, it is perfectly capable of being used standalone. The only thing that sucks about using it this way is that the control options are very minimal and you can basically change sources and that is it. You can't set it to upsample or downsample or view the current rate via LEDs or an LCD or any of that useful stuff which is probably why people will opt for pricier DACs like the PWD2.


----------



## toschek

rdaneel said:


> markm1, if you already have the Sonos setup, I can see why you would want to do the external DAC.  External DACs, especially a well-respected one like Bifrost, are typically much better than those in the streamers.  I use an external DAC with my primary Squeezebox.  What would you be using for a HP amp?  My only question about your setup is how you would feed both a HP amp and your receiver from the Bifrost, or are you using the receiver as the HP amp?  If your receiver has an analog output you could probably go analog out from the receiver to your HP amp without any real issue (assuming the receiver doesn't totally suck!).
> 
> As for PC-Bifrost-receiver, that would work if you have the Bifrost's USB module.  Lots of considerations there (like music software, setup, and support for asynchronous USB connections or high resolution music files), so you'll have to do some more research into the specifics.  The short answer is that people do use the Bifrost as a USB DAC.




You only need the USB module if your PC lacks an S/PDIF or Toslink output. If you have one of those, skip the USB option and save yourself $100. The USB section is somewhat inferior to the coax and optical inputs IMO. I have experienced artifacts in the output with USB on the PC and Mac so it's not just my setup.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Yes, I run my Bifrost from my PC into a receiver. I have no problems with it. I don't know a lot about the Sonos and whether or not it allows you to set an outgoing sample rate/bit depth, so most likely everything you'd send to the Bifrost from it would be sent at 44.1/16 but if that isn't a problem there is no reason the Bifrost wouldn't work. The Bifrost doesn't need to be attached to a PC/MAC to function at all, it is perfectly capable of being used standalone. The only thing that sucks about using it this way is that the control options are very minimal and you can basically change sources and that is it. You can't set it to upsample or downsample or view the current rate via LEDs or an LCD or any of that useful stuff which is probably why people will opt for pricier DACs like the PWD2.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





rdaneel said:


> markm1, if you already have the Sonos setup, I can see why you would want to do the external DAC.  External DACs, especially a well-respected one like Bifrost, are typically much better than those in the streamers.  I use an external DAC with my primary Squeezebox.  What would you be using for a HP amp?  My only question about your setup is how you would feed both a HP amp and your receiver from the Bifrost, or are you using the receiver as the HP amp?  If your receiver has an analog output you could probably go analog out from the receiver to your HP amp without any real issue (assuming the receiver doesn't totally suck!).
> 
> As for PC-Bifrost-receiver, that would work if you have the Bifrost's USB module.  Lots of considerations there (like music software, setup, and support for asynchronous USB connections or high resolution music files), so you'll have to do some more research into the specifics.  The short answer is that people do use the Bifrost as a USB DAC.


 
  I've got an Asgard 2 on back order which will be HP amp. Yes, I was thinking that I could use the receiver as the HP amp if I needed to. The reciever has analog outputs. And, yes, if I tried going PC-Bifrost-Reciever, I'd get the USB module.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## markm1

_The only thing that sucks about using it this way is that the control options are very minimal and you can basically change sources and that is it. You can't set it to upsample or downsample or view the current rate via LEDs or an LCD or any of that useful stuff which is probably why people will opt for pricier DACs like the PWD2._
   
*OK-now it's making a bit more sense. Never having owned a DAC, I'm trying to visualize the connections component to component from what I've read on-line vs having real experience.*


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





toschek said:


> You only need the USB module if your PC lacks an S/PDIF or Toslink output. If you have one of those, skip the USB option and save yourself $100. The USB section is somewhat inferior to the coax and optical inputs IMO. I have experienced artifacts in the output with USB on the PC and Mac so it's not just my setup.


 
  That's interesting..I have the Macbook Air and I was told to use the USB port on the left hand side since it was the "cleanest" source of sound. Hence I bought the Bifrost with the USB option. Are you recommending I use the headphone out instead ?


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> That's interesting..I have the Macbook Air and I was told to use the USB port on the left hand side since it was the "cleanest" source of sound. Hence I bought the Bifrost with the USB option. Are you recommending I use the headphone out instead ?


 
   
  The Macbook Air does not have an optical out buried in the headphone jack. USB is your only choice.


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> That's interesting..I have the Macbook Air and I was told to use the USB port on the left hand side since it was the "cleanest" source of sound. Hence I bought the Bifrost with the USB option. Are you recommending I use the headphone out instead ?


 
   
  The MacBook Air doesn't have a toslink output.   You did the right thing.
   
  Edit: Radioking59 got there first


----------



## kothganesh

Toschek, Radioking
   
  thanks for the stereo endorsement


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





gerald410 said:


> Bifrost/Lyr is now full effect. Very nice thru He-500. Time for some burn-in. Signing out!


 
   
  Congrats Gerald, could you please share your experience with the setup? I have a Bifrost and Lyr, and I will be looking to get the HE-500s soon. Thanks!
   
  Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Hello Lyr owners,
> 
> Got myself a Lyr yesterday with stock GEs. If this question has been asked before, I apologize. The question is: what sort of a time frame should I expect to expect for the tubes to "mature" and the SQ to hopefully settle at a better level. BTW, I have a Bifrost as the DAC.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  Well all tubes from Schiit are NOS which means they have not been used, therefore they might need some time to burn in but i don't think its too much (im no expert either). You could consult Schiit Lyr - The Tube Rolling Thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread
  
  Its probably the best and most useful thread i have encountered here so far. However I need to warn you.. be prepared to spend more money on tubes as soon as you open the link
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Head-fi works in misterius ways... its the ultimate tool to influence consumer behavior and encourage action.


----------



## jdubsss

I ordered an asgard 2 and bitfrost and their website says the asgard is delayed until 4/12 which was bumped up from the original 4/5.  I'm getting extremely impatient already and it's only been 2 days since I ordered... lol.
   
  Anyone find that they ship out when they say these days?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





mikiphile said:


> Congrats Gerald, could you please share your experience with the setup? I have a Bifrost and Lyr, and I will be looking to get the HE-500s soon. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Well all tubes from Schiit are NOS which means they have not been used, therefore they might need some time to burn in but i don't think its too much (im no expert either). You could consult Schiit Lyr - The Tube Rolling Thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread
> ...


 
I"m loving it, even with stock tubes the sound is clean and dynamic. Thats with maybe 30 hours of break-in.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





jdubsss said:


> I ordered an asgard 2 and bitfrost and their website says the asgard is delayed until 4/12 which was bumped up from the original 4/5.  I'm getting extremely impatient already and it's only been 2 days since I ordered... lol.
> 
> Anyone find that they ship out when they say these days?


 
  You better quite complaining-I ordered mine in late *JANUARY!*


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> You better quite complaining-I ordered mine in late *JANUARY!*


 
  I got my Magni shipped almost immediately.  I think they're just trying to isolate and tweek the hum problem people were having with the Asgard 2.


----------



## jdubsss

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> You better quite complaining-I ordered mine in late *JANUARY!*


 
   
  damn that's rough... have they given you a backorder date yet?


----------



## Grado77

gerald410 said:


> I"m loving it, even with stock tubes the sound is clean and dynamic. Thats with maybe 30 hours of break-in.




Are you using the stock silver cable? Yesterday I received my HE-500, the day before that my Lyr arrived. I ran with the silver cable and pleather pads for a day. Things sounded good but tonite I swapped the pleathers for a set of spare Beyer DT-990 pads I had on hand and swapped the silver cable with the Canare copper cable from my HE-400.........MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT in warmth and clarity and comfort. I'll never use that silver cable ever again.

I only have about 10 hours on the Lyr and HE-500 with the stock GE tubes. It sounds just incredible already.

I did order a set of 6N1P from Schiit along with with the Lyr and they turned out to be bad. Jason, in usual fashion, replied lightning quick and is sending out a replacement set. That is why I buy Schiit, great products, great service. I will have an Asgard 1, Lyr, and Bitfrost (waiting on it to ship) and very happy with this gear.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





> Well all tubes from Schiit are NOS which means they have not been used, therefore they might need some time to burn in but i don't think its too much (im no expert either). You could consult Schiit Lyr - The Tube Rolling Thread : http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread
> 
> Its probably the best and most useful thread i have encountered here so far. However I need to warn you.. be prepared to spend more money on tubes as soon as you open the link
> 
> ...


 
  Mikiphile:
   
  Head-fi works in only 1 way...more of everything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. From 1 solitary IEM last year to multiple over-the ear cans, DACs and Amps.... and no end in sight either. Having said that, I plan to give myself a tutorial on tubes this weekend. Thanks for the link.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Mikiphile:
> 
> Head-fi works in only 1 way...more of everything
> 
> ...


 
  I was going to just enjoy my HE-500s, pay off my debt, and then get SR-009s...but I'm heartily intrigued by the Annies and Mad Dogs.


----------



## gerald410

grado77 said:


> Are you using the stock silver cable? Yesterday I received my HE-500, the day before that my Lyr arrived. I ran with the silver cable and pleather pads for a day. Things sounded good but tonite I swapped the pleathers for a set of spare Beyer DT-990 pads I had on hand and swapped the silver cable with the Canare copper cable from my HE-400.........MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT in warmth and clarity and comfort. I'll never use that silver cable ever again.
> 
> I only have about 10 hours on the Lyr and HE-500 with the stock GE tubes. It sounds just incredible already.
> 
> I did order a set of 6N1P from Schiit along with with the Lyr and they turned out to be bad. Jason, in usual fashion, replied lightning quick and is sending out a replacement set. That is why I buy Schiit, great products, great service. I will have an Asgard 1, Lyr, and Bitfrost (waiting on it to ship) and very happy with this gear.





Not any longer I'm using these http://www.charlestoncablecompany.com/hifiman2.html.


----------



## Grado77

nothing like a good piece of Cu


----------



## markm1

Seems like the date gets pushed up every 10 days or so...now saying backorders shipping 4/12. Hope to have my amp by July! That said, in the long run, I'd just assume they work out the kinks. In the mean time, I'm getting itchy for  a DAC.


----------



## Y2HBK

I am currently using a monoprice toslink > mini-toslink cable between my Gungnir and Mac Mini. Will anyone recommend a decent one to replace, please? Toxic Cables? Etc?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





y2hbk said:


> I am currently using a monoprice toslink > mini-toslink cable between my Gungnir and Mac Mini. Will anyone recommend a decent one to replace, please? Toxic Cables? Etc?


 
Silflex


----------



## hodgjy

I actually like Cables2Go.  They are quite good for the money.  I notice so difference in sound when compared to expensive, exotic cables.  And, there should be none.


----------



## Llloyd

blue jeans cable is a sturdy cheap option as well


----------



## Audio-Omega

What's the latest news on Statement amplifier ?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





audio-omega said:


> What's the latest news on Statement amplifier ?


 
  Nothing's changed.


----------



## tuna47

What is statement amp


----------



## Alexein Aner




----------



## Alexein Aner

Quote: 





johnnyhi said:


> Hey Alexein did you got the cables.?


 
  For the record, it's the shipping [$ 60 for a $ 100 product] that is schiit. The audio is remarkably gd.
   
  Edit: It says "straight wire" in picture 3. Let me know if you need a specific type of pic.


----------



## rdaneel

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> What is statement amp


 
  The "statement" amp and DAC are new products that Schiit is working on now.  I don't think statement is the actual name, I believe Jason means that the products will make a 'statement' in the marketplace.  There are details in this thread, but the bottom line is that they will be about double the cost of the current high-end.


----------



## Tuco1965

Well I'm officially a Schiit Head now.  My Lyr has been ordered and shipped.  One hour from order time to status of shipped.  Holy Schiit!


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats.  And Schiit does their Schiit fast.  Very prompt service.
   
  Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Well I'm officially a Schiit Head now.  My Lyr has been ordered and shipped.  One hour from order time to status of shipped.  Holy Schiit!


----------



## Mattjh90

Quote: 





alexein aner said:


>


 
  good looking cables, let me know how it sounds. Hope you are enjoying Modi. What did you hook up modi to?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Well I'm officially a Schiit Head now.  My Lyr has been ordered and shipped.  One hour from order time to status of shipped.  Holy Schiit!


 
   
  Now you need to go on ebay and find some tubes to play with


----------



## Tuco1965

Curse you Head-Fi!  Damn wallet has a hole in it now!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll be keeping my eyes open for tubes.  Definitely going to give the stock ones a good burn in and listen for a while, but...


----------



## Alexein Aner

Quote: 





mattjh90 said:


> good looking cables, let me know how it sounds. Hope you are enjoying Modi. What did you hook up modi to?


 
  MSI GT70 > Modi > Matrix M-stage. The Fiio E17 is the only other DAC that I've owned.
   
  Modi pros: Noise reduction (far superior & evident using a laptop w/ circuit noise issues), clarity & clearness.
  Fiio E17 pros: warmth, seems to offer better synergy w/ the M-stage (my initial impressions). On their own, Modi > E17 w/o a doubt.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

What cans are you guys using with your Lyr?


----------



## Radioking59

The PYST USB looks to the same Straight Wire USB cable that sells for $42 everywhere else.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Curse you Head-Fi!  Damn wallet has a hole in it now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just bought more tubes and PYST. You're lucky you have a wallet with a hole. I'm officially declaring Chapter 11


----------



## rocMcBan

Hello Schiit Owners,
   
  Being in the hunt for a new DAC/Head amp for my office, I was wondering how does the Magni-Modi combo from Schiit compare with the Asus Essence One (regular edition, not the Muses) ?

 In my neck of the woods, after all is said and done, I am only looking at about $150 dollars difference.
   
  What if I decide to fork the cash and move up to a Bitfrost/Asgard ? 

 I am listening on Technics RP-DH1200 and/or Sony Z-1000 ,mostly classical, opera and some Kraftwerk tossed in from time to time. Folk and reggae too and who knows what else may come about. Previously I was using a Fiio E10.
   
  This setup will possibly be completed in the near future by a pair of active speakers as soon as the financial reality moves away from the imaginary realm.  For those late hours at work when everyone left and it is ok the listen without headphones.
   
  Forgot to mention this is all connected to a office provided Dell laptop.
   
  Thanks in advance,


----------



## awsanderson

To whom it may concern, I know there have been questions on here about using the Lyr in particular as a preamp, my questions included.  Well I decided to give it a shot with some speakers I had laying around (My old Klipsch RF 83's).  I was using a nice-ish Denon reciever (avr2807).  I picked up a Pro-ject amp box online for 150 ish (20 wpc) not a great amp but pretty good distortion numbers and 20 WPC to 100 db sensitive speakers is usually enough.  For sources I'm using my Pro-ject 9.2 turntable and I-Tunes to my Gungnir.  Anyways, I've never heard my Klipsch's sound so good, there are some things I don't like about them and I'll be upgrading amps and speakers soon but switching from the reciever to the Lyr and Pro-ject amp was a huge improvement.  I'm no profesional reviewer by any means but the soundstaging is pretty good, they get plenty loud and frequency response is pretty good.  I have not tried any tube rolling yet as I don't have any other tubes than the ones I got with the Lyr and I don't remember wich ones they are. 
   
  I will say this though, when Schiit says to turn the amp on after the Lyr and off before the Lyr they aren't kidding, insert awful noise here.
   
  Also to be fair I never used sources as good as my turntable or my Gungnir into my reciever so may not be a fair comparison but the fact remains that to my ears the Lyr makes a pretty good preamp.


----------



## zaodriver

My Bifrost shipped on Monday and should be arriving 4/15/2013. This will compliment my Asgard and Grado SR225 well. Many musical nights await.


----------



## Johnnyhi

Quote: 





alexein aner said:


> For the record, it's the shipping [$ 60 for a $ 100 product] that is schiit. The audio is remarkably gd.
> 
> Edit: It says "straight wire" in picture 3. Let me know if you need a specific type of pic.


 
  Nice... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



    they look very solid, now i know which cables to get...
   
  thanks for the pics...


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





zaodriver said:


> My Bifrost shipped on Monday and should be arriving 4/15/2013. This will compliment my Asgard and Grado SR225 well. Many musical nights await.


 
   
  That's the combination I'm looking at. I've got hte 225i and I'm waiting for my Asgard-2. I'm debating Bifrost with a number of other DACS. I'd love to read any feedback after you have a little time with them. Sounds like a great combo.


----------



## fabythom2713

New in these forum! Owner of A Lyr and tomorrow getting the gungnir! I'll let you now how it goes with my Caying A88t, Focal profile 908 and my audioblock p-100


----------



## toschek

Where is the Gugnir going to go in your chain there?
   
   
  Your Cayin 88t is a hell of a great amp.  I was really bummed that it didn't have a headphone out or option or I probably would have gone with that over the Cary.  I have always loved the Cayin sound and their prices can't be beat, it's a lot like finding a rare vintage McIntosh at a garage sale for $100.  
   
   
  I am waiting to see what the statement looks like before I upgrade.  I feel like I owe Schiit a chance to compete for my business on a true high end DAC before I jump ship to another brand.  I know that Jason and friends can pull off some miraculous ... schiit ... but I'm a little bummed out that he seems to outright dismiss the value of tubes having any place in a DAC, when some of the best ones I've heard have tubes as buffer.
   
  Anyway enjoy your new toy and congratulations!


----------



## markm1

I'm waiting for the Asgard-2. This will be my very first HP amp.
   
  Has anyone received the Asgard -2?
   
  I ordered mine January 25. The time keeps getting pushed back. This month, it's  gone from something like:

 4/12 or 15-I can't remember at this point
  4/25
 now 4/30
   
  I don't mean to by bitchy, but we're talking over 3 months...


----------



## Tuco1965

Read here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/650092/new-schiit-asgard-2/345#post_9343803


----------



## hodgjy

I had two previous A2s that got sent back due to transformer hum.  Other than that, they were bloody good sounding amps.
   
  Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I'm waiting for the Asgard-2. This will be my very first HP amp.
> 
> Has anyone received the Asgard -2?
> 
> ...


----------



## NevilleM

I've become a Schiit Hammer Head this week.
  Next week have to choose my balanced Orthos - probably LCD2 rather than HE-6, otherwise the Mjolnir is just a pretty ornament.
   
  Opera Consonance Reference Linear 2.2 -> Sicphones -> Denon D2000 (MarkL'ed) at the moment.


----------



## fabythom2713

Quote: 





toschek said:


> Where is the Gugnir going to go in your chain there?
> 
> 
> Your Cayin 88t is a hell of a great amp.  I was really bummed that it didn't have a headphone out or option or I probably would have gone with that over the Cary.  I have always loved the Cayin sound and their prices can't be beat, it's a lot like finding a rare vintage McIntosh at a garage sale for $100.
> ...


 
  OHHH!!! Schiit....OHHH Schiit!!! I want to scream it out loud!! My dear GOD, I just have not even 5 minutes of music and everything has changed, is not the same anymore, it went from awesome music to superb, I can hear more details better soundstage and every single instrument.
   
  My rig consist of:
  Marantz DV7600 for CD. Coaxial to the DAC ( Schiit)  Have about 600 cd's All kind of music
  Just plugged Apple Tv using the toslink to the DAC
  Schiit gungnir  to the Audioblock P-100 preamplifier
  Lyr from the second output of the gungnir
  Rega Rp3 to the P-100
  P-100 to the Cayin A88T to the Pre-In
   
  I would definitely recommend closed eyes this Gungnir DAC, best purchase this year, would keep listening to music as days pass! 
   
  Happy Listening
   
  Does not matter what equipment you use, just enjoy music, it is the medicine to our souls!


----------



## DigitalNinja20

Well, I finally upgraded to a nice system, been a fledgling buyer for a while now, owning a pair of BeyerDynamic DT990's and a FiiO E17. I just upgraded to a Cambridge Audio Dac Magic 100 and a Valhalla amp. I got the Valhalla for $200 used for 2 months so I'm happy  
   
  Here is a pic of my set-up. I need a proper headphone stand and a turntable next!
   
  EDIT: Having trouble adding pics... says that there is a problem connecting to the server.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





digitalninja20 said:


> EDIT: Having trouble adding pics... says that there is a problem connecting to the server.


 
  You may need to wait until you have more posts before you can add photos.  I know they put limits on accounts until you have been here for 15 days or 10 posts.
   
  But in the mean time, Welcome to the Schiit stack...


----------



## toschek

digitalninja20 said:


> Well, I finally upgraded to a nice system, been a fledgling buyer for a while now, owning a pair of BeyerDynamic DT990's and a FiiO E17. I just upgraded to a Cambridge Audio Dac Magic 100 and a Valhalla amp. I got the Valhalla for $200 used for 2 months so I'm happy
> 
> Here is a pic of my set-up. I need a proper headphone stand and a turntable next!
> 
> EDIT: Having trouble adding pics... says that there is a problem connecting to the server.




Congrats on the Valhalla, I hope you are ready to roll tubes !


----------



## Rossy007

Hello, I myself am looking to order the Magni as a birthday gift in the next week. I have had a pair of AKG Q701's bought for me as a surprise birthday gift. I was looking at buying a Little Dot I+ hybrid but after posting questions on their web site and not getting any answers, I decided to go with another company. I was looking at the HiFiMan EF2A but came across this thread and it sounds like the best deal (also on a tight budget) I will be using my ipod with rockbox installed with flac files. Does anyone foresee any problems driving the AKG's
   
  Thanks for reading


----------



## solserenade

toschek said:


> Congrats on the Valhalla, I hope you are ready to roll tubes !




I'll second that - cheers!


----------



## DigitalNinja20

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> You may need to wait until you have more posts before you can add photos.  I know they put limits on accounts until you have been here for 15 days or 10 posts.
> 
> But in the mean time, Welcome to the Schiit stack...


 
  Thanks  I'm happy to be a Schiit head


----------



## Tuco1965

My Lyr has cleared customs. Hopefully I'll see it in a couple days.


----------



## Rossy007

Wow, I thought I would just send Schiit an e-mail with same question and they got back to me...on a Sunday.
   
  I am defiantly ordering one.


----------



## nelamvr6

Schiit rawks!


----------



## disastermouse

rossy007 said:


> Wow, I thought I would just send Schiit an e-mail with same question and they got back to me...on a Sunday.
> 
> I am defiantly ordering one.



They are incredible at getting back to you quickly.


----------



## zaodriver

My Bifrost has arrived. I can't listen to until after the work and gym. 7 more hours.


----------



## hodgjy

See my official Asgard 2 beta test:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/659979/official-schiit-asgard-2-beta-test-impressions#post_9356618


----------



## zaodriver

I listened to the Bifrost -- > Asgard --- > Grado SR225 setup last night. I am very used to the Asgard and SR225 sound. The Bifrost clearly out-classed my older X-Fi Fatality sound card. The audio has clearer/deeper bass, clearer treble, and a much smoother sound than the sound card. Music also is also perceived as wider in the headphones and less grainy than the soundcard. This is definitely an excellent quality product. I support Schiit. I also can't wait to hear some other amps, DACs, and headphones. This is a great hobby.


----------



## Tuco1965

Well my Lyr is sitting in my truck waiting for me to finish work for the day.  6 business day from California to NW Ontario via USPS.  I'm impressed.  I'm very much looking forward to firing this baby up.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Well my Lyr is sitting in my truck waiting for me to finish work for the day.  6 business day from California to NW Ontario via USPS.  I'm impressed.  I'm very much looking forward to firing this baby up.


 
   
   
  Sweet!  What tubes will you be starting out with?


----------



## Tuco1965

It came with 6BQ7A which I'm listening to right now on my HD600s.  My wallet had a lock put on it,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I'm going to give these a good go first.  We'll definitely see how these perform after some good run time on them.  The rolling thread is calling me though.


----------



## Tuco1965

Damn thing is built like a tank too!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> It came with 6BQ7A which I'm listening to right now on my HD600s.  My wallet had a lock put on it,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If you want to just get some great tubes without breaking the bank, just look up Mercedesman6572 on ebay and buy some Amperex Bugle Boys.  You pay around $80 or less for a pair of gently used tubes, they'll sound terrific, and you can avoid the Tube Rolling thread altogether...
   
  Here, these will do nicely:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-BUGLE-BOY-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1961-LARGE-O-GETTER-MATCHED-PAIR-SWEET-/221215760582?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33817ca0c6
   
  Of course, you're always welcome in the rolling thread, but be warned, tube rolling is a sickness!  Save yourself!


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm still going to have to wait a bit.  The Lyr was already a jump up from my original budget of going with the Asgard 2.  Just need to put some time between this purchase and my next.  Gotta reload my mad money fund.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm still going to have to wait a bit.  The Lyr was already a jump up from my original budget of going with the Asgard 2.  Just need to put some time between this purchase and my next.  Gotta reload my mad money fund.


 
   
   
  Totally understandable.
   
  If the time comes that money is there, and you want to use the one shot/one kill approach, just look up Mercedesman and see if he has Amperex Bugle Boys or Amperex Orange Globes.  Otherwise, there's help in the rolling thread.


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks again.  That might be just the way I'll go.


----------



## tjl5709

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Thanks again.  That might be just the way I'll go.


 
   
  That was good advise he gave you, and those were good suggestions on a couple good sounding tubes.
   
  I will say it again, stay out of the tube rolling thread unless you are the non-compulsive type. It's a slippery slope that sucks you in.............


----------



## KLJTech

Deleted.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





tjl5709 said:


> I will say it again, stay out of the tube rolling thread unless you are the non-compulsive type. It's a slippery slope that sucks you in.............


 
   
  This.
   
  I have 15 pair of tubes and still not happy.


----------



## hodgjy

Then it's not the amp or tubes.  It's your preference or unreasonable expectations.
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> This.
> 
> I have 15 pair of tubes and still not happy.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm still going to have to wait a bit.  The Lyr was already a jump up from my original budget of going with the Asgard 2.  Just need to put some time between this purchase and my next.  Gotta reload my mad money fund.


 
   
  I'm in the same boat. Started off looking at the A2 for my HD600's, then heard about the Lyr and the bank has been well and truly broken.....I've always wanted to try a tube amp (appreciate the Lyr is a hybrid) so decided to go for it.
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> If you want to just get some great tubes without breaking the bank, just look up Mercedesman6572 on ebay and buy some Amperex Bugle Boys.  You pay around $80 or less for a pair of gently used tubes, they'll sound terrific, and you can avoid the Tube Rolling thread altogether...
> 
> Here, these will do nicely:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I made the mistake of dipping into that thread....slippery slope I reckon.
   
  From the brief read (didn't manage to get right through) I was leaning towards the Orange Globes. Do you think the Bugle Boys are a better match for the HD600's or do they both worth considering?
   
  With international shipping, taxes etc. I may also need to defer purchase for a while. Would you recommend sticking with the stock tubes for the time being or are there some more wallet / HD600 friendly tubes I could take a punt on to tide me over (<=$30 a pair before shipping say)?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> This.
> 
> I have 15 pair of tubes and still not happy.


 
  Now you are frightening me...i just ordered two pairs for the Lyr...and you're at 15 ?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Now you are frightening me...i just ordered two pairs for the Lyr...and you're at 15 ?


 
   
  I'm just addicted to tube rolling, even though i might have good tubes and sound fantastic, there might always be something better.
   
  After my next batch arrives i think i'll call it a day.


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I'm just addicted to tube rolling, even though i might have good tubes and sound fantastic, there might always be something better.
> 
> After my next batch arrives i think i'll call it a day.


 
  Yeah but what day are you going to call it?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I'm in the same boat. Started off looking at the A2 for my HD600's, then heard about the Lyr and the bank has been well and truly broken.....I've always wanted to try a tube amp (appreciate the Lyr is a hybrid) so decided to go for it.
> 
> 
> I made the mistake of dipping into that thread....slippery slope I reckon.
> ...


 
   
   
  I don't have the HD600s, so I can't comment on that specific match up.  
   
  I can say that both the Orange Globes and the Bugle Boys are excellent all around tubes, with good bass extension, good bass slam, yet also with good bass control, clear, detailed treble that isn't too harsh or etched, and with nice sweet mids.  
   
  How well they suit the HD600s I'll have to leave to someone else to comment on.
   
  But now you're starting to leave the realm of finding good all around tubes and approaching the realm of finding specific tubes for specific cans. And that's absolutely fine.  But that's also how a tube rolling hobby (addiction) starts...


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I don't have the HD600s, so I can't comment on that specific match up.
> 
> I can say that both the Orange Globes and the Bugle Boys are excellent all around tubes, with good bass extension, good bass slam, yet also with good bass control, clear, detailed treble that isn't too harsh or etched, and with nice sweet mids.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, that's really helpful. Both tubes sound very close to what I'm after so I'll definitely read up some more on them.
   
  That's a good point about matching tubes to phones......maybe not a path I should head down as I suspect that finding the 'perfect' tube could turn into a bit of an expensive (& possibly elusive) obsession. Perhaps better to just go for some good all rounders and enjoy them for a while.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Now you are frightening me...i just ordered two pairs for the Lyr...and you're at 15 ?


 
   
  Not to scare you even more, but I have 37 pairs.
   
  But to be fair, these also fit my Cavalli Liquid Glass, so they are not for the Lyr alone.
   
  Tubes do fail occasionally/eventually, so it's nice to have backups for your favorites (I had an Orange Globe fail last week; glad I had backup).


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Not to scare you even more, but I have 37 pairs.
> 
> But to be fair, these also fit my Cavalli Liquid Glass, so they are not for the Lyr alone.
> 
> Tubes do fail occasionally/eventually, so it's nice to have backups for your favorites (I had an Orange Globe fail last week; glad I had backup).


 

 Do you tend to swap them around much depending on your music / phones / mood etc. or do you have favourites that you mainly stick with?


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Do you tend to swap them around much depending on your music / mood or do you have some favourites that you mainly stick with?


 
   
  I listen almost exclusively to classical, so I can't comment on different tubes for different musical styles. Although I do prefer the warmer tubes (like Mullards) for chamber music/vocal soloists and slightly brighter ones for symphonic music/larger ensembles.
   
  I mostly swap tubes (and amps too) to try to get a good match to a particular headphone.
   
  I tend to stick to favorite tubes for awhile (several weeks at a time), and then the mood hits me to experiment with different tube/headphone/amp combos and I'm off to the races again.
   
  You can't go wrong with nelamvr6's endorsement of Bugle Boys and Orange Globes.  Both very nice sets of tubes, that sound good with most headphones. My current favorite Amperex tubes are the USN-CEP's; but favorites change as you keep listening (and tubes change with burn-in time, etc, etc).
   
  Also, many of those 32 sets are repeats/backup sets. Just in the Amperex tubes I have 10 sets of tubes (2 sets USN-CEP's; 4 sets Bugle Boys; 3 sets Orange Globes; 1 set White Label).
   
  Anyway, the most important thing is to find tubes that give you the most "Wow" factor for your setup, and then stick with those and enjoy the music!!


----------



## MickeyVee

x3 on the Amperex recommendations.  I have 6 sets of tubes and the Amperex Orange Globes are the ones I like the most.  Not sure about the HD600 but they sound great with the HD700 & HE500.  Done with the tube thing.  If I get any more, it will be a good deal on a backup set of either of the Amperex.
  Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> You can't go wrong with nelamvr6's endorsement of Bugle Boys and Orange Globes.  Both very nice sets of tubes, that sound good with most headphones. My current favorite Amperex tubes are the USN-CEP's; but favorites change as you keep listening (and tubes change with burn-in time, etc, etc).


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Thanks, that's really helpful. Both tubes sound very close to what I'm after so I'll definitely read up some more on them.
> 
> That's a good point about matching tubes to phones......maybe not a path I should head down as I suspect that finding the 'perfect' tube could turn into a bit of an expensive (& possibly elusive) obsession. Perhaps better to just go for some good all rounders and enjoy them for a while.


 
   
   
  Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed tube rolling, it can be a lot of fun.  But it can also be expensive, and it's really not necessary to enjoy the Lyr.  It's a side hobby if you will...


----------



## MattTCG

I've got several pairs of tubes from mercedesman on ebay. I will vouch for his product and service...outstanding. I have only one set of boutique tubes right now...a set of cryo'd Russians that sound very similar to Amperex Orange Globes. I have need compulsion to change tubes. These just sound so good with everything. I plan to use them until they are no longer functional.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've got several pairs of tubes from mercedesman on ebay. I will vouch for his product and service...outstanding. I have only one set of boutique tubes right now...a set of cryo'd Russians that sound very similar to Amperex Orange Globes. I have need compulsion to change tubes. These just sound so good with everything. I plan to use them until they are no longer functional.


 
   
   
  See, now, a tube roller would at least have a "safety" pair of those tubes.  Because if you like them, you'll want to but in the exact same tube once those fail.  And they'll only get more expensive over time...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  See how this disease sneaks up on you?


----------



## MattTCG

But that's the thing, I'm not a roller. I just enjoy the Schitt out of my setup. If my current set of tubes ever fail, I'll just hit up mercedesman for another pair. 
   
  I wish that others could hear these Russians...just beautiful.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> But that's the thing, I'm not a roller. I just enjoy the Schitt out of my setup. If my current set of tubes ever fail, I'll just hit up mercedesman for another pair.
> 
> I wish that others could hear these Russians...just beautiful.


 
   
   
  You're quite right, no need to obsess.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> Not to scare you even more, but I have 37 pairs.
> 
> But to be fair, these also fit my Cavalli Liquid Glass, so they are not for the Lyr alone.
> 
> Tubes do fail occasionally/eventually, so it's nice to have backups for your favorites (I had an Orange Globe fail last week; glad I had backup).


 
  Well, I did it. I just bought a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys from mercedesman. I have the Lyr at present but who knows where the overall madness is headed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Thank God I will be on vacation shortly.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Well, I did it. I just bought a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys from mercedesman. I have the Lyr at present but who knows where the overall madness is headed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know you'll love them, but I'd like to hear your impressions anyway.  
   
  They should sound pretty good right off the bat, but do let them burn in for a bit before you make any decisions about whether this is the ultimate tube for you.


----------



## awsanderson

I just made on offer on some "new in box" bugle boys, we will see...


----------



## R Scott Ireland

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Well, I did it. I just bought a pair of Amperex Bugle Boys from mercedesman. I have the Lyr at present but who knows where the overall madness is headed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Awesome, congratulations!!
   
  BTW, vacations do not work - on my last one I bought the Pan Am amp on my iPad. OK, so vacations can work if you take no phone, pad, or other device with connectivity


----------



## kothganesh

nelamvr6 said:


> I know you'll love them, but I'd like to hear your impressions anyway.
> 
> They should sound pretty good right off the bat, but do let them burn in for a bit before you make any decisions about whether this is the ultimate tube for you.



Thanks. I will keep you posted.


----------



## kothganesh

r scott ireland said:


> Awesome, congratulations!!
> 
> BTW, vacations do not work - on my last one I bought the Pan Am amp on my iPad. OK, so vacations can work if you take no phone, pad, or other device with connectivity



Thanks. I did review my post and I agree that what I said was plain nuts. On vacation, no stress, iPhone in hand .... I hope I don't end up buying the Stax


----------



## Mattjh90

I love taking a week or so off from listening to music through my schiit stack to catch up on life and school. And i fired it up again this morning and fell in love all over again....


----------



## hodgjy

I frequently listen every evening for weeks, and then I take a few weeks completely off.  This could be based on my schedule or just my mood in general.  When I fire up the rig, I get a big rush of overdue enjoyment.
   
  Quote: 





mattjh90 said:


> I love taking a week or so off from listening to music through my schiit stack to catch up on life and school. And i fired it up again this morning and fell in love all over again....


----------



## jellofund

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the help guys and for being so patient & tolerant of my noob questions. It's much appreciated.
   
  I received my Lyr today and am really very pleased with it. whilst it looks good in photos I was pleasantly surprised by both the build quality and just how nice it looks in the flesh. It has a fair bit of heft to it too as I discovered when I nonchalantly picked it out of the packing box one handed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Fitting tubes for the first time was a bit unnerving as I was a bit worried about bending pins etc.  but after a bit of trial & error they went in fine.
   
  I wasn't expecting much from the stock tubes but even after just a few hours listening I'm pretty happy with what I'm hearing. Sure they aren't perfect but I can definitely live with them 'til I can afford something better (Bugle Boys  are looking good). Even at this early stage I'm really enjoying the smoothness and fullness of the sound coming out of this amp.
   
  Should be a fun weekend!


----------



## Tuco1965

Enjoy your Lyr!  I'm listening to mine right now.  All is good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!


----------



## jellofund

Thanks mate. Hope you enjoy yours too!


----------



## Tuco1965

Just listening to an oldie.  J.J. Cale Troubadour.  Sounds great.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Just wanted to say thanks again for all the help guys and for being so patient & tolerant of my noob questions. It's much appreciated.
> 
> I received my Lyr today and am really very pleased with it. whilst it looks good in photos I was pleasantly surprised by both the build quality and just how nice it looks in the flesh. It has a fair bit of heft to it too as I discovered when I nonchalantly picked it out of the packing box one handed
> 
> ...


 
  Socket Savers can make it easier to instal your tubes.  they also raise the tubes a bit out of the chassis so temps will lower a bit.  Not that you have to worry about high temps, but lower is always better IMHO.
   
  Plus, they look bitchin'!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These ones are inexpensive too:
   
http://tubedepot.com/sk-9svr.html


----------



## kothganesh

nelamvr6 said:


> Socket Savers can make it easier to instal your tubes.  they also raise the tubes a bit out of the chassis so temps will lower a bit.  Not that you have to worry about high temps, but lower is always better IMHO.
> 
> So, you just insert the tubes into the Savers and insert the latter into the amp right?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  That's pretty much it.  Or, you can install the socket savers into the amp, then install your tubes into the savers.
   
  These have been around for a LOOOOONG time, they were originally used on tube testers.  
   
  Tubes used to be installed and removed on testers sometimes dozens of times a day.  I remember there was a DIY tester installed at the local Rite-Aid, so some of the people installing and removing tubes would not be the most careful sort.
   
  Eventually the pins on the sockets would wear out. Then the tester would have to have a new socket soldered in.  
   
  Then came socket savers.  Instead of the pins on the tester's socket wearing out, the pins on the cheap socket saver would take the punishment.
   
  That makes them ideal for tube rollers.  We install and remove tubes a lot too.
   
  But even if you don't plan on doing a lot of rolling, these are worth considering because of all the benefits I mentioned in my earlier post.
   
  And don't be concerned about signal degradation, your tubes will sound just fine with these installed.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Socket Savers can make it easier to instal your tubes.  they also raise the tubes a bit out of the chassis so temps will lower a bit.  Not that you have to worry about high temps, but lower is always better IMHO.
> 
> Plus, they look bitchin'!
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the suggestion. I had been considering buying some and I agree they look pretty cool (spotted a pic of your Lyr in a tube photo thread).
   
  I took a look at tubedepot and although they are very cheap, shipping to the UK is $30!!!!
   
  I'm not sure about the codes / reference no's the seller mentions but I this looks to be the same one (I think?) and shipping is cheaper:  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-PIN-SOCKET-SAVER-Ships-USA-12AX7-12AT7-12AU7-EL84-12BH7-/400419755566?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D7091505783400169134%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D400419755566%26
   
  I also spotted some Novib Socket Savers ($15 with minor cosmetic blemishes) that have an anti-vibration feature and claim to have sturdier gold pins. If you've tried both do you feel it would be worth spending a bit more or do the cheaper ones work just as well?
   
  One final question (I promise it'll be my last for a while!) which I've been unable to find an answer to whilst searching or looking on youtube. The Schiit manual is a bit vague in terms of how to install tubes and basically says line them up and push down gently until seated. I felt I need to use a fair amount of pressure to get them in, not quite brute force but definitely on the firmer side of gentle, and stopped as soon as the tubes felt secure and weren't prone to wobble or popping out. Looking through the vent on the right side of the amp I can see a visible gap between the porcelain holder and the bottom of the tube, with approx. 4-5mm of the metal pins still visible. I'm assuming this is how they're meant to sit and I don't need to push down any further?
   
  Thanks in advance and I really do appreciate all the help you've given me


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I had been considering buying some and I agree they look pretty cool (spotted a pic of your Lyr in a tube photo thread).
> 
> I took a look at tubedepot and although they are very cheap, shipping to the UK is $30!!!!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The ones on eBay that you linked to should do fine, in fact, they should all be pretty much functionally identical.
   
  I have the Novib ones installed, but I've never compared them to any others.  But I've read other members stories and I have no reason to think that it's really critical either way which one you use.  
   
  The Novib ones have silicone dampening of some kind, I can't say for sure if it's effective or not.  I haven't had any problems with microphonics, so maybe it's because I use those socket savers, maybe it's because I use tube dampeners, and maybe I've just been lucky.
   
  When a tube is properly installed you shouldn't see any portion of the pins.  The base of the tube should be resting on the socket. So I'd have to say that your tubes are only partially installed.  
   
  The important thing to remember is to be firm, and try to maintain pressure straight down to avoid bending anything.  Life will be easier if you install socket savers.  I also use a bit of Deoxit on each of the pins, and that provides a bit of lubricant.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The ones on eBay that you linked to should do fine, in fact, they should all be pretty much functionally identical.
> 
> I have the Novib ones installed, but I've never compared them to any others.  But I've read other members stories and I have no reason to think that it's really critical either way which one you use.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the very quick and clear reply. I'd assumed you guys would all still be in bed at this time on a Saturday morning!
   
  I think I may as well go for the Novibs. There's not a huge difference (after I factor in shipping) for something that potentially offers a bit more longevity etc. Compared to some tube prices they look a bit of a steal!!!
   
  I really didn't want to force the tubes in too much without getting a second opinion first, in case I was going to do some lasting damage. I did what you suggested and they're now properly seated. Although I maintained a constant downward pressure they did feel a bit notchy but I did notice the metal pins looked very slightly cloudy in places, so maybe they were chafing a bit. 
   
  Thanks for the tip re. Deoxit. I was wondering what I could use on the pins so that sounds perfect.
   
  Cheers again!


----------



## Rossy007

So, after reading this thread and the fantastic customer service from Schiit, I ordered a Magni on Friday, says it will be delivered this Thursday and cant wait. I will be using it with a pair of AKG Q701 which should arrive this week (gift from my new wife as I got married Friday) I will be using an ipod 5Th gen with rockbox on it I will be ordering a Modi in a couple of weeks and was wondering the best way to connect the ipod to the Magni until I get the Modi.
   
  Thanks


----------



## justie

Gasing so badly to upgrade my Lyr right now haha. Although the statement amp is not released, does anyone have a price range for this amp? What I want to know is if the product could possibly be below $1700


----------



## MattTCG

I think that it is rumored at $1500.


----------



## justie

Thats good to know cuz at the moment the money i have saved up only allows me an amp purchase with maximum budget of $1700 XD


----------



## tuna47

Upgrading to the lyr from asgard2 hope it's worth the cost any opinions


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Upgrading to the lyr from asgard2 hope it's worth the cost any opinions


 
  I can't comment on the Asgard 2, but I'm really liking my Lyr with my HD600s so far.  I only have about 14 hours on it, so the tubes may sound different with more time on them.  It can also push my AKG Sextetts very well also.  I just haven't spent a lot of time with that pairing yet.
   
  The type of cans you have will play a big part in whether or not the upgrade is worthwhile.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Upgrading to the lyr from asgard2 hope it's worth the cost any opinions


 
   
  I went from the A2 back to the lyr. There is a definite "upgrade" here. There is a reason that the lyr cost almost 2x that of the A2. The A2 is certainly a good amp and is very versatile with the gain switch and pre-outs. But it's not a lyr killer...nor was it intended to be. The lyr is just  brilliant with hard to drive phones. I'm currently using it with the hd650 and  maddogs and couldn't be happier. 
   
  You'll have to roll tubes if you want the best from the lyr, but that's part of the fun.


----------



## tuna47

Thanks I have the he500 somewhat hard to drive plan on maybe upgrading tubes once


----------



## MattTCG

The lyr is a great match for the he500. I had that setup for several months.


----------



## tuna47

Did you have to roll tubes


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I think that it is rumored at $1500.


 
   
  I thought the latest rumors put it a little north of that. I believe the amplifier is done at this point, they're just waiting to finalize the DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I thought the latest rumors put it a little north of that. I believe the amplifier is done at this point, they're just waiting to finalize the DAC.


 
  $1500-ish. And still, that's subject to change, possibly.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> $1500-ish. And still, that's subject to change, possibly.


 
   
  Hrmmm
   
  Rumor round up / clarification?
   
  1500 ish
  same form factor as the DAC
  Lots of power
  speaker taps
  1/4" TRS in front?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Hrmmm
> 
> Rumor round up / clarification?
> 
> ...


 
  Officially no changes since Jason's last 'clarification.'
   
  Except no dual 3-pin XLR, I believe.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Officially no changes since Jason's last 'clarification.'
> 
> Except no dual 3-pin XLR, I believe.


 
   
  Oh yes, forgot to mention balanced. Figured that was assumed 
   
  It will be a tough decision to grab a Mjolnir at a great price when this comes out or to grab a statement. With so much functionality in one unit, it's kind of hard to pass up on.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Oh yes, forgot to mention balanced. Figured that was assumed
> 
> It will be a tough decision to grab a Mjolnir at a great price when this comes out or to grab a statement. With so much functionality in one unit, it's kind of hard to pass up on.


 
  I can understand your dilemma.
  It's definitely exciting to see how the statement gear shapes out to be.


----------



## preproman

Should be a real steal and very much welcomed.  Compared to the price of the LAu.


----------



## toschek

I want to see some DAC specs already! I do realize its unfair to whine about it. 

How is the Gungnir compared to Bifrost? The Bifrost is bottlenecking my current setup and I'm looking to upgrade the DAC soon. It isn't awful, the Bifrost is a really nice DAC -- do not get me wrong, but it is noticeable. I don't have access to a Gungnir to test, but I'm considering selling the Bifrost and picking up a Gungnir/Statement, NAD M51, Anedio D1 or Matrix X-Sabre.

Release some specs already guys! At least reassure me that I can wait X number of months and I can stick with Schiit


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I want to see some DAC specs already! I do realize its unfair to whine about it.
> 
> How is the Gungnir compared to Bifrost? The Bifrost is bottlenecking my current setup and I'm looking to upgrade the DAC soon. It isn't awful, the Bifrost is a really nice DAC -- do not get me wrong, but it is noticeable. I don't have access to a Gungnir to test, but I'm considering selling the Bifrost and picking up a Gungnir/Statement, NAD M51, Anedio D1 or Matrix X-Sabre.
> 
> Release some specs already guys! At least reassure me that I can wait X number of months and I can stick with Schiit


 
  When I upgraded to the Gungnir from my Bifrost, I noticed a fairly sizeable increase in sound quality. It was definitely worth the purchase for me


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> When I upgraded to the Gungnir from my Bifrost, I noticed a fairly sizeable increase in sound quality. It was definitely worth the purchase for me


 
  I have the Bifrost now and looking at the Gungnir. But one of the things that have become painfully obvious is that some of my source songs are, well, poorly recorded. I play Apple lossless versions and am puzzled by the variability in the source material. The orthos really show up shortcomings in the source recordings. I quite don't know how "upgrading" to the Gungnir will help. Ideas anyone ?


----------



## Anvil

Guess I gotta report in now, posting while listening to my "new" Asgard 1 I bought off another headfier for decently close to the price of a new Magni w/ shipping.


----------



## hodgjy

Congrats.  The Asgard 1 is a wonderful amp.
   
  Quote: 





anvil said:


> Guess I gotta report in now, posting while listening to my "new" Asgard 1 I bought off another headfier for decently close to the price of a new Magni w/ shipping.


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





anvil said:


> Guess I gotta report in now, posting while listening to my "new" Asgard 1 I bought off another headfier for decently close to the price of a new Magni w/ shipping.


 
  Nice!  What are you using for cans?


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> I have the Bifrost now and looking at the Gungnir. But one of the things that have become painfully obvious is that some of my source songs are, well, poorly recorded. I play Apple lossless versions and am puzzled by the variability in the source material. The orthos really show up shortcomings in the source recordings. I quite don't know how "upgrading" to the Gungnir will help. Ideas anyone ?


 
   
  Koth, when I went from the Bifrost/Lyr to Bifrost/Mjolnir (with Audezes,) I suddenly noticed "issues" with a bunch of recordings. The unpleasantness disappeared when the Gungnir  was installed. The difference wasn't subtle; in fact I sold the Bifrost. The Gungnir also feeds the speakers system (gotta love having three outputs,) and has really opened up the soundstage and made even small details easily discernible. My advice would be to get the Gungnir if you can stretch your budget. It's a notably superior component in every way. Of course, I'm still waiting for the statement DAC and amps.


----------



## Anvil

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Nice!  What are you using for cans?


 
   

 Bought em for the HE-400s I received a week and a half ago and which I'm using now, heard they paired well and I saw a good deal on the table so I went with the Schiit. Lovely piece of gear btw, sounds great to my moderately-refined ears and this thing's industrial design looks pretty amazing.
   
  Any rig I use is pretty much my computer rig, so I'm still using my old Hot Audio DAC Straight as the DAC with the Schiit in place of the another headfier built SSMH I was using before. Planning to upgrade that in the future though, looking at everything from the ODAC to the Dacport LX or maybe even the Modi.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> Koth, when I went from the Bifrost/Lyr to Bifrost/Mjolnir (with Audezes,) I suddenly noticed "issues" with a bunch of recordings. The unpleasantness disappeared when the Gungnir  was installed. The difference wasn't subtle; in fact I sold the Bifrost. The Gungnir also feeds the speakers system (gotta love having three outputs,) and has really opened up the soundstage and made even small details easily discernible. My advice would be to get the Gungnir if you can stretch your budget. It's a notably superior component in every way. Of course, I'm still waiting for the statement DAC and amps.


 
  Thanks for the response. And I see where this is going as well. If I get the Gungnir, then the Lyr won't make much sense, would it ? I would have to get the Mjolnir or some other balanced DAC/Amp combo.. If I do this, I will then have a dac/amp for every one in my family, including my daughter's pet dog


----------



## Chawanwit

Im a bit confuse. 
   
  The RCA PYST is for connecting the Magni to the Modi.
So how do I connect the Modi to my Mac book pro?
Do I need to buy the USB PYST as well?
   
Thanks


----------



## KamijoIsMyHero

Quote: 





chawanwit said:


> Im a bit confuse.
> 
> The RCA PYST is for connecting the Magni to the Modi.
> So how do I connect the Modi to my Mac book pro?
> ...


 
  USB


----------



## Anvil

I see I'm as sloppy with turning on/off procedures as I've always been, just unplugged my headphones from my Asgard before turning down the volume and shutting off the amp again. I've been able to do it many times with dynamic headphones in the past on something without a muting relay, though Orthos are a new thing for me.
   
  Hopefully I'm off the hook for this one in the morning.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





chawanwit said:


> Im a bit confuse.
> 
> The RCA PYST is for connecting the Magni to the Modi.
> So how do I connect the Modi to my Mac book pro?
> ...


 
  You will need a USB connection from the Macbook to the Modi. Make sure you are buying the Modi with the USB card in it. Second, you can buy the PYST USB or if you have a printer cable that connects the laptop to a printer, that will be fine as well. The USB in the Modi should have what is called a mini-USB (male B) socket hence the cable is technically called a male A female B cable.


----------



## hodgjy

The Modi is USB only.  The Bifrost has USB as an option.  But, I see your point and you offer great advice. 
   
  Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> You will need a USB connection from the Macbook to the Modi. Make sure you are buying the Modi with the USB card in it. Second, you can buy the PYST USB or if you have a printer cable that connects the laptop to a printer, that will be fine as well. The USB in the Modi should have what is called a mini-USB (male B) socket hence the cable is technically called a male A female B cable.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The Modi is USB only.  The Bifrost has USB as an option.  But, I see your point and you offer great advice.


 
  That is right. I got a little confused there since I have the Bifrost with the USB. And thanks.


----------



## olddtfan

Your safe I have done it with ny 650s and Asgard and not had any problems.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Thanks for the response. And I see where this is going as well. If I get the Gungnir, then the Lyr won't make much sense, would it ? I would have to get the Mjolnir or some other balanced DAC/Amp combo.. If I do this, I will then have a dac/amp for every one in my family, including my daughter's pet dog


 
   
  You really wouldn't have to get a Mjolnir, unless you particularly want to run balanced phones. I've kept my Lyr, because it is a very different animal from the Mjolnir. That is, an exceedingly revealing solid state instrument, vs. an incredibly fun tube amp. Sometimes I'm just in the mood for glass-flavored audio. The Gungnir will provide a superior experience with either (and in fact can be used with both at the same time.)


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> That is right. I got a little confused there since I have the Bifrost with the USB. And thanks.


 
  How about connecting an Asgard 2 directly to a source such as a receiver or CD player. I'm still waiting for my A-2 and, it will be my first amp.


----------



## kothganesh

45longcolt said:


> You really wouldn't have to get a Mjolnir, unless you particularly want to run balanced phones. I've kept my Lyr, because it is a very different animal from the Mjolnir. That is, an exceedingly revealing solid state instrument, vs. an incredibly fun tube amp. Sometimes I'm just in the mood for glass-flavored audio. The Gungnir will provide a superior experience with either (and in fact can be used with both at the same time.)



Oh wow, I did not know that the Gungnir could play both simultaneously. Oh well, my wallet will become 800 bucks poorer soon


----------



## kothganesh

markm1 said:


> How about connecting an Asgard 2 directly to a source such as a receiver or CD player. I'm still waiting for my A-2 and, it will be my first amp.
> [/quote
> I suppose you could do that through RCA cables. Hope I'm right


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's what I was thinking. Before I get a DAC, I'd like to figure out what I need to connect it to a source.


----------



## Tuco1965

I don't have a dedicated DAC in my system but I have multiple digital sources that I connect via RCA cables to my Lyr.  It's an interesting way to hear the differences in the built in DACs.  Down the road I'll buy an outboard DAC but not a problem for now.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> That's what I was thinking. Before I get a DAC, I'd like to figure out what I need to connect it to a source.


 
   
  Depends on the source. Almost every decent CD player has a coax (RCA connectors) or toslink optical out, most PCs output via USB and many Macs feature optical via the headphone jack. Consult a cable seller to make sure you're getting the right stuff. Blue Jeans Cables and Siflex both enjoy good reps among Head-Fiers. I think you might be astonished how much of an improvement a good DAC will make in sound quality. And I think Schiit is absolutely killer for the money, just to keep on topic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Oh wow, I did not know that the Gungnir could play both simultaneously. Oh well, my wallet will become 800 bucks poorer soon


 
   
  Jason assured me via email that all three outs on the Gungnir (one balanced, two RCA) can feed operating amps at the same time without stressing the DAC or degrading the sound quality. Although I can't imagine a likely circumstance where you'd want to do that; a mini-meet or for equipment comparisons, perhaps. It is really convenient to have everything connected (in my case, two HP amps and the main speakers system) at all times, without having to swap cables around.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> Depends on the source. Almost every decent CD player has a coax (RCA connectors) or toslink optical out, most PCs output via USB and many Macs feature optical via the headphone jack. Consult a cable seller to make sure you're getting the right stuff. Blue Jeans Cables and Siflex both enjoy good reps among Head-Fiers. I think you might be astonished how much of an improvement a good DAC will make in sound quality. And I think Schiit is absolutely killer for the money, just to keep on topic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks!


----------



## Sayanee

So I have the lyr/bifrost combo and I had to take out my sound card to fit in another video card. I found out that my optical slot on the mobo doesn't work so I have to find other means. Could I use something like http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Digital-Analog-Audio-Converter/dp/B005PWPUW6/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1366989263&sr=8-6&keywords=usb+to+coax to connect to my pc by usb then connect it to the bifrost via coaxial?


----------



## elwappo99

Looks like the first wave of upgrades are available for DACs
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661423/polished-schiit-bifrost-gungnir-upgrades


----------



## MattTCG

Hmm....very interesting.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Looks like the first wave of upgrades are available for DACs
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661423/polished-schiit-bifrost-gungnir-upgrades


 
   
   
  I must have this.  It WILL be mine...


----------



## kothganesh

nelamvr6 said:


> I must have this.  It WILL be mine...


Right behind you friend. There is the small issue of shipping this to the US first.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Right behind you friend. There is the small issue of shipping this to the US first.


 
  This will help a little:
   
   
   


> *[size=10pt]New Schiit Upgrade Scheduling System[/size]*
> [size=10pt]Since we know you don’t want to be away from your Bifrost or Gungnir for long, (and since, say, trying to do 3000 upgrades in one week wouldn’t be so great on our side either) we’ve developed a convenient scheduling system that allows you to keep your product until we’re ready to turn it around immediately. Just order your upgrade on the site, then follow the steps in the series of emails. You’ll be notified when your order is accepted, when to send in your DAC, when the work is performed, and when it’s shipped back to you.[/size]


----------



## MattTCG

I'm in on my bifrost upgrade.


----------



## MickeyVee

Me too.. Built in upgraditis cure. Brilliant work Jason!
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm in on my bifrost upgrade.


----------



## Byronb

The Valhala seems to be a very under-represented amp here. Is the Lyr really so much better?


----------



## nelamvr6

I ordered the Uber Bifrost upgrade card to install myself.  This should be quite the adventure...


----------



## MattTCG

You mean the bifrost card right? I plan to do my own install also. I figure that I've built enough computer over the past several years which should qualify me to install this card.


----------



## paradoxper

Can't wait for you guys to blow some Schiit up.


----------



## bearFNF

Yeah need pics of the cards, and of the magic smoke when you let it out.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> You mean the bifrost card right? I plan to do my own install also. I figure that I've built enough computer over the past several years which should qualify me to install this card.


 
   
   
  Yeah, sorry, corrected.  My DWIM keyboard was malfunctioning...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> Yeah need pics of the cards, and of the magic smoke when you let it out.


 
   
   
  No such luck!  I'm gonna execute the perfect upgrade and save myself $30, and much more importantly, time away from my Bifrost!


----------



## MattTCG

+1 No way I'm sending my bifrost through usps.


----------



## bearFNF

OK, just pics of the cards then?  no magic smoke pics needed...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> OK, just pics of the cards then?  no magic smoke pics needed...


 
  When they get here... But I'm going out of town in a week.  I just hope they get here before then.


----------



## hodgjy

The Lyr drives a wider range of headphones.  The Valhalla is best suited for high impedance headphones.
   
  Quote: 





byronb said:


> The Valhala seems to be a very under-represented amp here. Is the Lyr really so much better?


----------



## ennui30

Right now my setup is a laptop / Flac files > Nuforce Icon HD > Sennheiser Hd600's.  I'm waiting on a recently purchased Schitt Bifrost (I'll be using the optical from my laptop) and Asgard 2 to run my HD600's through.  Anybody have experience with these two setups or something similar and have an opinion on what kind of improvement, if any, I should expect in sound quality?  Thanks in advance, I've really enjoyed reading this thread.


----------



## toschek

elwappo99 said:


> Looks like the first wave of upgrades are available for DACs
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661423/polished-schiit-bifrost-gungnir-upgrades




I just ordered mine too. I'll try to take pictures of the upgrade process so people can DIY if they feel like it.


----------



## justie

Wondering if the hybrid statement amp will use tubes of the same size as the Lyr. It would be nice if it is because that way people who owned the Lyr can roll their tubes in the statement without buying new separate ones XD


----------



## Rossy007

I am posting this not as a complaint but as a question as people here seem very knowledgeable. I received my magni on Friday and have been listening to it since then. I absolutely love the sound through my AKG Q701's but early Sunday morning, while I was listening to some classical, I noticed a low hum in the left channel. After a couple of seconds, it got very loud and I noticed some heat radiate against my left ear. I quickly switched the amp off, waited a few seconds and switched it back on, The hum/buzz got very loud very quickly and I switched it off again. I plugged my headphones into the headphone amp in my ipod and the theft side is distorted but the right is fine. I used a ipod dock with a line out to the magni so felt it was the fault of the amp. I emailed schiit and Jason got back to me very quickly and suggested I send it back but now my headphones are damaged and I am not sure if I can get them replaced without charge.  Jason did suggest that it may be a problem with the ipod, here is what he said      "Your iPod. It might have a problem, too. Or it could be the cause, if it has DC offset"
   
  I don't know what this means and I am hoping someone here could explain what he means as I don't want this to happen again.
   
  Thanks


----------



## toschek

justie said:


> Wondering if the hybrid statement amp will use tubes of the same size as the Lyr. It would be nice if it is because that way people who owned the Lyr can roll their tubes in the statement without buying new separate ones XD




It will not as of the current info available about it, they haven't announced which tubes it will use so that might change. For now I would count on them being different.


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> When they get here... But I'm going out of town in a week.  I just hope they get here before then.


 
  Good Luck!


----------



## richpjr

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I just ordered mine too. I'll try to take pictures of the upgrade process so people can DIY if they feel like it.


 
  Please do - I am definitely interested in seeing how easy or hard this is to do on your own.


----------



## MattTCG

Just got a shipping notice on my bifrost upgrade board!! Time to exercise the f5 key.


----------



## olddtfan

Your Ipod may be the problem try your headphones  on something else and see if the one side still distorts if not your I Pod may have a problem.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





toschek said:


> I just ordered mine too. I'll try to take pictures of the upgrade process so people can DIY if they feel like it.


 
  +1.... Please do....I got a notification saying that they have been shipped out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I am planning to DIY so need all the help I can get. If I screw it up, well, hello Gungnir


----------



## BobDob25

Can I hook the Lyr's RCA outputs to my A2 powered speakers? i just want to make sure they won't blow them


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





bobdob25 said:


> Can I hook the Lyr's RCA outputs to my A2 powered speakers? i just want to make sure they won't blow them


 
   
  Yes, that's what they're for (the Pre-outs).


----------



## gefski

byronb said:


> The Valhala seems to be a very under-represented amp here. Is the Lyr really so much better?




SET OTL amps are always under-represented everywhere. It's difficult to get much power out of a tube directly driving a speaker, even a headphone. As far as pure transparency and a musical presentation, however, they can be terrific. My Valhalla is just that with HD650, K701, and others, including my "not ideal load" 32 ohm Grado RS1is. Plenty of volume at about 11:30. I plan on trying the 600 ohm DT880s as well.


----------



## toschek

bobdob25 said:


> Can I hook the Lyr's RCA outputs to my A2 powered speakers? i just want to make sure they won't blow them




Yes, you absolutely can. It is best if you turn the speakers output up to max and use the Lyr's volume control. Just remember to turn the speakers off when you are listening with headphones (the headphone jack doesn't mute the outputs.)


----------



## toschek

gefski said:


> *SET OTL amps are always under-represented everywhere. It's difficult to get much power out of a tube directly driving a speaker, even a headphone. As far as pure transparency and a musical presentation, however, they can be terrific.* My Valhalla is just that with HD650, K701, and others, including my "not ideal load" 32 ohm Grado RS1is. Plenty of volume at about 11:30. I plan on trying the 600 ohm DT880s as well.




+1

Well put.


----------



## toschek

Although I'd hazard to say that other factors leading to a lower adoption rate for the Valhalla vs. Lyr is that the Valhalla until recently did not support tube rolling, and it does not have pre-amp outputs. In fact, first production run Valhallas still can't be tube rolled so that hurts the resale market a little bit too I'd imagine.


----------



## Byronb

That is a good point, never really thought about that, as I got mine after the change. I do love mine though, it will be a while before I replace I think.


----------



## toschek

The Valhalla still looks and sounds very good for the price. I am thinking about buying one for when I'm at the office, but since I'm rarely physically onsite it isn't pressing.


----------



## gefski

byronb said:


> That is a good point, never really thought about that, as I got mine after the change. I do love mine though, it will be a while before I replace I think.




I agree, and think upgrading my Bifrost will be more productive than changes in amplification.


----------



## gefski

toschek said:


> Although I'd hazard to say that other factors leading to a lower adoption rate for the Valhalla vs. Lyr is that the Valhalla until recently did not support tube rolling, and it does not have pre-amp outputs. In fact, first production run Valhallas still can't be tube rolled so that hurts the resale market a little bit too I'd imagine.




Do you drive the HD800s with the Cary? 

Yes, it would be nice to have pre-outs on the Valhalla. I have a couple older Stax that I drive with a Sonic Frontiers SFS40, but can't do it on my desktop system.


----------



## Byronb

Quote: 





gefski said:


> I agree, and think upgrading my Bifrost will be more productive than changes in amplification.


 
  Agree Gefski, and I intend to do just that when I get back from the current road trip.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





gefski said:


> I agree, and think upgrading my Bifrost will be more productive than changes in amplification.


 
   
  Depends on which amp, but in many cases yes. The dac is often overlooked and underappreciated for what it brings to the chain.
   
  On another note, my bifrost  über upgrade board is due in today.


----------



## MattTCG

My upgrade board for the bifrost did not make it today although it was scheduled for delivery. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I suspect that it will come in tomorrow. I'll plan to take some installation photos for other who want to DIY and then I'll leave feedback after I've had some time to listen and evaluate.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> My upgrade board for the bifrost did not make it today although it was scheduled for delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That would be great!


----------



## nelamvr6

Ok, I'm listening to a nice 96/24 needledrop of the Cisco vinyl release of Steely Dan's Aja with the new Uber upgrade, and it sounds Awesome!

Highly recommend, if you haven't ordered your upgrade already, I urge you to think about doing so!


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Do you drive the HD800s with the Cary?
> 
> Yes, it would be nice to have pre-outs on the Valhalla. I have a couple older Stax that I drive with a Sonic Frontiers SFS40, but can't do it on my desktop system.


 
   
  Yes, I do.  It is an amazing headphone amp.  The non-uber Bifrost the biggest bottleneck in my system right now, I am excited to see if this upgrade will make the difference I hope they do.  The HD800s will let me know right away.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Ok, I'm listening to a nice 96/24 needledrop of the Cisco vinyl release of Steely Dan's Aja with the new Uber upgrade, and it sounds Awesome!
> 
> Highly recommend, if you haven't ordered your upgrade already, I urge you to think about doing so!


 

 Hi.
   
  There were two kind of Uber Board, which one did you buy??


----------



## MattTCG

There is one for the dac output stage and the other is for the USB upgrade.


----------



## gefski

toschek said:


> Yes, I do.  It is an amazing headphone amp.  The non-uber Bifrost the biggest bottleneck in my system right now, I am excited to see if this upgrade will make the difference I hope they do.  The HD800s will let me know right away.




I'll be watching what you and others say about the upgrades. Not just if you like it, but what the sonic characteristics of the new version are. Also the new J Kenny Ciunas is coming out. I want the dust to settle on both of these before spending more $.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> Hi.
> 
> There were two kind of Uber Board, which one did you buy??


 
  The new analog board.


----------



## Biscuitz

Question for you Schiit owners, especially Lyr owners.
   
  I've read good things about the Lyr driving high impedance headphones. It seems one reason, besides the great amount of power the Lyr has, is the fact that it runs "essentially single-ended Class-A operation for high-impedance headphones," as per Schiit's website. So my question is, if a sensitive low-impedance headphone like a Denon or Grado presents a noise floor using the Lyr, would it make sense to use a 500 ohm resistor adapter to essentially bump up the "headphone load" of a Grado or Denon to ~532 ohm? That should in theory reduce or eliminate noise floor, improve volume attenuation, and cause the Lyr to operate in Class-A, correct?
   
  An example for clarification, the adapter would go: Grado SR60i -> 500 ohm resistor adapter -> Schiit Lyr
   
  The adapter I'm talking about would be a single ended version of what MalVeauX is using here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project/795#post_9202524
   
  If this makes sense, this would be an inexpensive addition to a Lyr setup to make it virtually universal in its use with any headphone. But I'm not totally savvy as to all this electrical / engineering jazz, so correct my thinking if this _isn't_ a good idea.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The new analog board.


 

 not the other one?


----------



## gerald410

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Ok, I'm listening to a nice 96/24 needledrop of the Cisco vinyl release of Steely Dan's Aja with the new Uber upgrade, and it sounds Awesome!
> 
> Highly recommend, if you haven't ordered your upgrade already, I urge you to think about doing so!


 
  As soon as my finances permit. Enjoy!


----------



## BobDob25

My Bifrost DAC with uber upgrade, LYR amp, and Sennheiser 650's have been ordered and shipped! Now here comes the waiting game...


----------



## MattTCG

^^ f5, f5, f5!!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> not the other one?


 
   
   
  Nope, I don't have any USB board in my Bifrost at all, I don't use my DAC for USB, at least not in my Big Rig.  I feed it with the coax digital signal out of my Squeezebox Touch.


----------



## gmahler2u

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Nope, I don't have any USB board in my Bifrost at all, I don't use my DAC for USB, at least not in my Big Rig.  I feed it with the coax digital signal out of my Squeezebox Touch.


 

 Ok. I don't have usb board so I should get the analog one. 
   
  Thank you


----------



## bearFNF

Just ordered both boards for mine.  Any pictures from you guys that have them already?
  Hmmm, what to do with the old boards....??


----------



## nelamvr6

bearfnf said:


> Just ordered both boards for mine.  Any pictures from you guys that have them already?
> Hmmm, what to do with the old boards....??




That's a good question. I suppose I'll keep it as a spare, though I doubt I'll ever need it. I could turn it into a keychain...


----------



## gefski

biscuitz said:


> Question for you Schiit owners, especially Lyr owners.
> 
> I've read good things about the Lyr driving high impedance headphones. It seems one reason, besides the great amount of power the Lyr has, is the fact that it runs "essentially single-ended Class-A operation for high-impedance headphones
> ," as per Schiit's website. So my question is, if a sensitive low-impedance headphone like a Denon or Grado presents a noise floor using the Lyr, would it make sense to use a 500 ohm resistor adapter to essentially bump up the "headphone load" of a Grado or Denon to ~532 ohm? That should in theory reduce or eliminate noise floor, improve volume attenuation, and cause the Lyr to operate in Class-A, correct?
> ...




I've wondered about an impedance adaptor to bump up my RS1i for Valhalla use, but couldn't find one online. So now you've pointed me towards a possibility. Thanks! Downside would be one more cable and connector (unless BTG could just rewire the phones).

Actually the Valhalla is more than satisfactory driving the Grados, both from a noise (none audible) and sonic perspective.


----------



## Biscuitz

Quote: 





gefski said:


> I've wondered about an impedance adaptor to bump up my RS1i for Valhalla use, but couldn't find one online. So now you've pointed me towards a possibility. Thanks! Downside would be one more cable and connector (unless BTG could just rewire the phones).
> 
> Actually the Valhalla is more than satisfactory driving the Grados, both from a noise (none audible) and sonic perspective.


 
  Send a message to MalVeauX, he will gladly point you in the right direction.


----------



## BobDob25

Anybody else get their Bifrost with Uber setup and listened to? I get mine on monday and this is my first bifrost, so I really compare it to much. I would love to hear some impressions of the bifrost with uber compared to the Gungnir.


----------



## toschek

Yeah I am interested in a Bifrost/Gungnir comparison as well. As someone who has done the upgrade to the "uber" board, I have to say it is a huge improvement over the vanilla Bifrost. I am just wondering how close it comes to Gungnir. As a side note, the "uber" is a lot less forgiving with low quality source files, some of my older collection of mp3s are definitely going to need to be revisited and re-ripped. They aren't unlistenable or anything, but this version of Bifrost is much much more revealing. I no longer feel any need to upgrade my DAC, headphones or amp, but my source files need a serious audit right now.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Send a message to MalVeauX, he will gladly point you in the right direction.


 
   
  Don't forget that this is MalveauX for May month...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Very best....


----------



## BobDob25

toschek said:


> Yeah I am interested in a Bifrost/Gungnir comparison as well. As someone who has done the upgrade to the "uber" board, I have to say it is a huge improvement over the vanilla Bifrost. I am just wondering how close it comes to Gungnir. As a side note, the "uber" is a lot less forgiving with low quality source files, some of my older collection of mp3s are definitely going to need to be revisited and re-ripped. They aren't unlistenable or anything, but this version of Bifrost is much much more revealing. I no longer feel any need to upgrade my DAC, headphones or amp, but my source files need a serious audit right now.




How is it less forgiving? It doesn't brighten them up, does it? I like a dark, warm, sound signature.


----------



## preproman

Question for the Schiit folks out there.
   
   
  For the DAC.  Any info if there will be a IS2 input of anykind in the DAC?


----------



## toschek

For anyone who owns the Schiit Bifrost and would like to upgrade the analog board (aka "Uber"), I've posted a pictorial guide on how to DIY here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695
   
  Best of luck!


----------



## toschek

Quote: 





bobdob25 said:


> How is it less forgiving? It doesn't brighten them up, does it? I like a dark, warm, sound signature.


 
   
   
  No, it isn't bright, just more resolving.  You can tell if your source is a low quality mp3 just because of the enhanced DAC resolution.  Your Schiit won't sound awful, but you'll want to re-rip if you can.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Question for the Schiit folks out there.
> 
> 
> For the DAC.  Any info if there will be a I2s input of anykind in the DAC?


 
  Maybe.


----------



## Johnnyhi

Any pics of the uber board.? 
   
   
   

  Modi White...


----------



## Johnnyhi

NVM... Found them...


----------



## Mediahound

anyone have opinions on the lyr vs asgard2 for audeze lcd2s?


----------



## tuna47

Lyr has a lot more power will run them better


----------



## Taliesin

any views on the lyr with hd800, 6moons seemed to love it, i was wondering if anyone else thought the worked together.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Lyr has a lot more power will run them better


 
  thanks, yeah looks like it.


----------



## PoliHigh

This little combo sounds lovely for the price used off head-fi,Couldn't be beaten with my budget.BEAUTIFUL WITH VINYL! New happy Schiit Customer!


----------



## Tuco1965

Looks good!  I'm seriously considering the idea of getting my vinyl out of storage.  I will have to look at ways to reconfigure my system to put it back into place.


----------



## BobDob25

So i just got my LYR it came with 4 tubes, 2 small ones and 2 large ones. Which ones do I use and did i get shipped teh right ones? I wasnt expecting 4


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobdob25 said:


> So i just got my LYR it came with 4 tubes, 2 small ones and 2 large ones. Which ones do I use and did i get shipped teh right ones? I wasnt expecting 4


 
   Sound like you've been sent valhalla tubes, take a picture and post here.
   
  If this is indeed the case, DONT use the bigger (6N6P) tubes in your Lyr, they draw way too much heater current.


----------



## Byronb

Quote: 





bobdob25 said:


> So i just got my LYR it came with 4 tubes, 2 small ones and 2 large ones. Which ones do I use and did i get shipped teh right ones? I wasnt expecting 4


 
   
  Yeah that sounds like a set of tubes for the Valhala. You should contact Schiit and get them to send you the correct tubes.


----------



## BobDob25

Quote: 





byronb said:


> Yeah that sounds like a set of tubes for the Valhala. You should contact Schiit and get them to send you the correct tubes.


 
   
  I can confirm they are the Valhala. I sent the pictures to Schiit and they confirmed. They told me i can use the smaller ones for now and they are going to ship me the proper ones.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobdob25 said:


> I can confirm they are the Valhala. I sent the pictures to Schiit and they confirmed. They told me i can use the smaller ones for now and they are going to ship me the proper ones.


 
   
  Yes smaller ones are fine, they are 6N1P, Schiit sells that particular tube for the Lyr anyway.
   
  You'll notice they are nice and warm, good bass and mids, smooth layed back treble, might sound closed in at first but open up after 20 hours or so of burn in.
   
  Which ones are they sending out to you? If it's the G.E 6BZ7's they are quite transparent sounding.


----------



## BobDob25

ilikepooters said:


> Yes smaller ones are fine, they are 6N1P, Schiit sells that particular tube for the Lyr anyway.
> 
> You'll notice they are nice and warm, good bass and mids, smooth layed back treble, might sound closed in at first but open up after 20 hours or so of burn in.
> 
> Which ones are they sending out to you? If it's the G.E 6BZ7's they are quite transparent sounding.




Yes, they are sending me the GE's. I knew it was going to get hot, but both my lyr and new bifrost are burning up after an hour or so. I am assuming this normal, they are stacked btw


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





bobdob25 said:


> Yes, they are sending me the GE's. I knew it was going to get hot, but both my lyr and new bifrost are burning up after an hour or so. I am assuming this normal, they are stacked btw


 
   
  Yes it's normal, 6N1P's draw 0.6A of heater current per tube so they run very warm, 6BZ7's draw a lot less and are much cooler, but Lyr can tolerate the heat of the 6N1P's.
   
  If it concerns you, you can buy some cheap chinese socket savers that make the tubes stand taller, it helps dissipate the heat into the air rather than into your Lyr, makes tube rolling easier too.
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-9PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FR-12AX7-12AU7-ECC82-ECC83-amp-/160622385954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2565d71b22


----------



## BobDob25

ilikepooters said:


> Yes it's normal, 6N1P's draw 0.6A of heater current per tube so they run very warm, 6BZ7's draw a lot less and are much cooler, but Lyr can tolerate the heat of the 6N1P's.
> 
> If it concerns you, you can buy some cheap chinese socket savers that make the tubes stand taller, it helps dissipate the heat into the air rather than into your Lyr, makes tube rolling easier too.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-9PIN-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FR-12AX7-12AU7-ECC82-ECC83-amp-/160622385954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2565d71b22




Thanks, I'll buy some.


----------



## BobDob25

Will these or any 9 pin socket saver work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Socket-Saver-9-Nine-Pin-12ax7-6bq5-Extender-Tube-Amp-Amplifier-Test-Adapter-/290901057667?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bb0de083
   
  I'd rather buy from within the US.


----------



## Byronb

Those will definitely work, I have a set of them myself.


----------



## BobDob25

Quote: 





byronb said:


> Those will definitely work, I have a set of them myself.


 
   
  Thanks for the help, purchased 2 of em.


----------



## Byronb

Glad to be of assistance


----------



## tuna47

I need a USB bifrost does the upgrade make a difference like the uber upgrade


----------



## VolkswagenFox

I'm now a proud owner of a Lyr! I'm quite impressed with it, even with my Alessandro MS-1. I'm still waiting for my Beyerdynamic DT880s to arrive.
   
  One of the tubes is a bit noisy, but it mostly goes away after it's warmed up. Only got about 3 hours on them, so I'll give it more time to break in.


----------



## solserenade

bobdob25 said:


> Yes, they are sending me the GE's. I knew it was going to get hot, but both my lyr and new bifrost are burning up after an hour or so. I am assuming this normal, they are stacked btw




More heat is produced by the transformers and power transistors - left and right side of chassis - which is why those areas warm up first. It is normal… be sure it gets air, that's all it needs.


----------



## NZheadcase

volkswagenfox said:


> I'm now a proud owner of a Lyr! I'm quite impressed with it, even with my Alessandro MS-1. I'm still waiting for my Beyerdynamic DT880s to arrive.
> 
> One of the tubes is a bit noisy, but it mostly goes away after it's warmed up. Only got about 3 hours on them, so I'll give it more time to break in.




Congrats! 

About the noisy tube, try reseating the tube or switching them around. Worked for me. Often it just needs to be re-set into the amp. If still noisy, contact Jason. Schiit is very good helping out with even small issues like that. 

Enjoy!


----------



## gefski

bobdob25 said:


> Yes, they are sending me the GE's. I knew it was going to get hot, but both my lyr and new bifrost are burning up after an hour or so. I am assuming this normal, they are stacked btw




My Bifrost has always run barely warm (not stacked). Your Lyr must be warming it. I also run 1" tall feet on the Schiit, good ventilation all around.


----------



## VolkswagenFox

Quote: 





nzheadcase said:


> Congrats!
> 
> About the noisy tube, try reseating the tube or switching them around. Worked for me. Often it just needs to be re-set into the amp. If still noisy, contact Jason. Schiit is very good helping out with even small issues like that.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
  Just got my DT880. Dead silent, no hum at all. Only get hum with more sensitive headphones. Not planning on using my MS-1 with my Lyr anyway.


----------



## MickeyVee

I'm not sure if anyone has tried after market power cables with their Schiit stuff but just just for giggles, I just did.  I had a couple of AudioQuest NRG 2 power cables in my box of spare audio stuff so I replaced the stock cables with them.  Wow!  they really opened the system up, smoothed out, extended and opened up the top end with my HE500. A little more air, detail and soundstage.  Not dramatic but noticeable.  Quite nice. Sticking with it.
  I have the Uber analog board coming in for my Bifrost and that should add a little more. Hopefully another nice tweak.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has tried after market power cables with their Schiit stuff but just just for giggles, I just did.  I had a couple of AudioQuest NRG 2 power cables in my box of spare audio stuff so I replaced the stock cables with them.  Wow!  they really opened the system up, smoothed out, extended and opened up the top end with my HE500. A little more air, detail and soundstage.  Not dramatic but noticeable.  Quite nice. Sticking with it.
> I have the Uber analog board coming in for my Bifrost and that should add a little more. Hopefully another nice tweak.


 
  I heard the audiophile power cable needs to be on the computer to make the most difference. Is that not true?


----------



## ilikepooters

Has anyone rewired their whole house with audio grade wiring? i'm intrigued to see what difference it makes.


----------



## DudeMyCans

Not the whole house, and not with audiophile cable, but I wired a dedicated spur to my HiFi years ago in a previous house and it made a big difference. I think I used over grade i.e. thicker cable.

I'm not sure how much difference the last metre of cable makes anyway when you consider the previous kilometres to the substation...

(sits back and waits for the fireworks to start).


----------



## gtb123

Hi guys, I am planning to buy a lyr as i own an O2 and ODAC. I have a few questions:
  Is the lyr a significant and worthy upgrade for the O2?
  Is there any way i can connect my ODAC to the lyr?
  Thanks


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





gtb123 said:


> Hi guys, I am planning to buy a lyr as i own an O2 and ODAC. I have a few questions:
> Is the lyr a significant and worthy upgrade for the O2?
> Is there any way i can connect my ODAC to the lyr?
> Thanks


 

 I recently bought a Lyr to replace my O2. Whether the Lyr is a worthy update is probably a matter of individual preference but for me it was. That said I was never entirely happy with the O2.
   
  Assuming you have a standalone ODAC then it can indeed be connected to the Lyr, either by using a 3.5mm minijack to 2 x RCA cable or using regular stereo interconnects if your ODAC has the red/white RCA sockets on the rear (not all do).


----------



## gtb123

Quote: 





jellofund said:


> I recently bought a Lyr to replace my O2. Whether the Lyr is a worthy update is probably a matter of individual preference but for me it was. That said I was never entirely happy with the O2.
> 
> Assuming you have a standalone ODAC then it can indeed be connected to the Lyr, either by using a 3.5mm minijack to 2 x RCA cable or using regular stereo interconnects if your ODAC has the red/white RCA sockets on the rear (not all do).


 
   
  What was the difference between O2 and lyr? I know it is a matter of preference as some people said that they prefer the O2 more than the lyr, vice versa. Are you satisfied with the lyr? By the way, what is your current setup?


----------



## Raptor34

Quote: 





gtb123 said:


> What was the difference between O2 and lyr? I know it is a matter of preference as some people said that they prefer the O2 more than the lyr, vice versa. Are you satisfied with the lyr? By the way, what is your current setup?


 

 I am very satisfied with my Lyr.   Quite frankly I can't imagine replacing it with anything else.   Guess I'm in a end game situation with my present setup.   I did buy some cables for my HE-500 and my HD-650s and for the combined price I could have bought another Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    Price to performance ratio,  the Lyr absolutely cannot be beat.


----------



## Tuco1965

Count me as another happy Lyr owner.  With about a 100 hundred plus hours on it, my HD600s are definitely singing.


----------



## tuna47

Also have the lyr and odac very happy the lyr is very smooth and silky


----------



## gtb123

Thanks for the replies guys. I know the lyr is indeed a very good amp for my HD650 and K701 as the reviews are excellent.
  Do anyone have comparisons of the lyr with O2 or other of its close contenders?


----------



## tuna47

Tube amps sound different very mellow without loosing detail I had the a mid prized none tube amp before find tubes never tire you out


----------



## claud W

A poster on the headphone recomendation thread described my Lyr and Bifrost Uber as "entry level" and suggested I upgrade it before buying HD800 or LCD-2s. I think I have more invested in wires than in my Schiit stack. I have about $900 in powercords that are not in my sig. Its my Shiit Stack to The Max.


----------



## Byronb

Quote: 





claud w said:


> A poster on the headphone recomendation thread described my Lyr and Bifrost Uber as "entry level" and suggested I upgrade it before buying HD800 or LCD-2s. I think I have more invested in wires than in my Schiit stack. I have about $900 in powercords that are not in my sig. Its my Shiit Stack to The Max.


 
   
  Would love to know how he quantified the stack as "entry level"?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





byronb said:


> Would love to know how he quantified the stack as "entry level"?


 
   
  I'd say my Maverick D1 was entry level, beyond that i'd call stuff mid-fi.


----------



## john57

Many musicians use "entry level" audio equipment without complains. Musicians usually are more concerned about their playing rather than nick-pick their audio equipment with the ones I dealt with.  If I wanted a "top flight" hybrid amp with the same power as the Lyr I would get the Liquid Glass by [size=x-small]Cavalli Audio. I have heard it personally and it is a great amp. I have several tube amps myself and I will soon compare the Lyr with my Melos pre-amp which uses the same family of tubes that Lyr uses.[/size]


----------



## gefski

mediahound said:


> I heard the audiophile power cable needs to be on the computer to make the most difference. Is that not true?



IMO no, because most computers have (compared to good mid-fi like Schiit) cheesy $1.23 power supplies, so no matter what power you feed it, it's junk. In my case, I'm using a laptop, so when playing music, it's on battery (probably also junk). Then I'm using Shunyata Venoms on the Schiit.

If anyone is using better desktop computers, and has upgraded the power supplies (and power cables), it would be an interesting read.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





gefski said:


> IMO no, because most computers have (compared to good mid-fi like Schiit) cheesy $1.23 power supplies, so no matter what power you feed it, it's junk. In my case, I'm using a laptop, so when playing music, it's on battery (probably also junk). Then I'm using Shunyata Venoms on the Schiit.
> 
> If anyone is using better desktop computers, and has upgraded the power supplies (and power cables), it would be an interesting read.


 
  Biggest thing I noticed with the laptop is the charging circuit can cause issues with noise on the line.  Running just on batteries it pretty darn quiet.
   
  As far as desktop goes, I built my gaming rig and the fans are loud and add some ambient noise.  Only way around this is to build a liquid cooled silent rig.  But I don't want to go there...yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  That's why a good battery powered portable DAP or dedicated music server might be a good move.


----------



## zackzack

I own an AKG K550 which is known for its impressive treble but its shyness in the bass area.
  Would the Bifrost + Lyr combination bring out the bass? Or something like the Asgard 2 would suffice?


----------



## john57

I built my PC to be very quiet with a custom sound proofed case. I also use big heat sinks on the CPU with large fans so that the fan will spin a bit lower and still have good air flow. I use the X series SeaSonic power supply which has one of the lowest DC ripple on the market. I use my Juli@ sound card by ESI in the balanced mode to cut down any electrical interfere being induced on the audio lines and feed to a outboard unit. For computers in general the hardforum.com/ is a good one to go to. There is also the computeraudiophile.com as well


----------



## john57

Quote: 





zackzack said:


> I own an AKG K550 which is known for its impressive treble but its shyness in the bass area.
> Would the Bifrost + Lyr combination bring out the bass? Or something like the Asgard 2 would suffice?


 
  You are not going to have a big night and day difference to overcome the perceived lack of bass in the headphones. I use J.River for audio playback on my computer. You can try some equalization in the software to increase the bass as an inexpensive way to boost the bass.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





gefski said:


> IMO no, because most computers have (compared to good mid-fi like Schiit) cheesy $1.23 power supplies, so no matter what power you feed it, it's junk. In my case, I'm using a laptop, so when playing music, it's on battery (probably also junk). Then I'm using Shunyata Venoms on the Schiit.
> 
> If anyone is using better desktop computers, and has upgraded the power supplies (and power cables), it would be an interesting read.


 
   
  If I only have one Shuyata Venom power cable, should it go on the Bifrost DAC or the Lyr amp?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I'd say my Maverick D1 was entry level, beyond that i'd call stuff mid-fi.


 
  I would definitely disagree with the classifying of Schiit as mid-fi.
   
  Just because a piece of equipment doesn't have a huge price tag doesn't mean it doesn't provide excellent sound.
   
  Designations such as "high end" and "mid-fi" are arbitrary at best and end up being matters of opinion at the end of the day.


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





john57 said:


> You are not going to have a big night and day difference to overcome the perceived lack of bass in the headphones. I use J.River for audio playback on my computer. You can try some equalization in the software to increase the bass as an inexpensive way to boost the bass.


 
   
  Pairing K550 with more expensive SS amp doesn't seem to bring out the bass...Let alone a portable amplifier. 
  EQ is nice but I want a more defined bass.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> If I only have one Shuyata Venom power cable, should it go on the Bifrost DAC or the Lyr amp?


 
  The Bifrost. I have a TG Audio SLVR on my Bifrost, A Shuyata Powersnake on my Lyr and an Element Red Storm on my OPPO.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





john57 said:


> You are not going to have a big night and day difference to overcome the perceived lack of bass in the headphones. I use J.River for audio playback on my computer. You can try some equalization in the software to increase the bass as an inexpensive way to boost the bass.


 
  +1. I own the Bifrost (uber card on the way), the Asgard and the Lyr. The Lyr will add some warmth but you will not get any significant boost to the bass.


----------



## gefski

mediahound said:


> If I only have one Shuyata Venom power cable, should it go on the Bifrost DAC or the Lyr amp?




Perhaps, but you don't say what other cables you have available. The Lyr will draw the most current, so should get the largest (smaller numerically) guage cable. Actually, Shunyata has a less expensive cable specifically for "source" components that draw less current.


----------



## gefski

Thanks computer guys, your posts about power supplies and cooling are interesting. 

It's neat that Schiit (and others these days) make casework that acts as heatsinks and throws off the heat effectively.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Thanks computer guys, your posts about power supplies and cooling are interesting.
> 
> It's neat that Schiit (and others these days) make casework that acts as heat-sinks and throws off the heat effectively.


 
  It is nice that Schitt is using the thick case as a large hear sink meaning that the power transistors will hopefully last longer at lower temperatures than using the internal heat sinks. I have SS amps that uses those screw on internal heat sinks that will get hot enough to burn your finger. I had the Bravo hybrid amp long ago on EBay and those hear sinks will also get very hot as well.


----------



## Raptor34

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I would definitely disagree with the classifying of Schiit as mid-fi.
> 
> Just because a piece of equipment doesn't have a huge price tag doesn't mean it doesn't provide excellent sound.
> 
> Designations such as "high end" and "mid-fi" are arbitrary at best and end up being matters of opinion at the end of the day.


 

 +1


----------



## Mediahound

gefski said:


> Perhaps, but you don't say what other cables you have available. The Lyr will draw the most current, so should get the largest (smaller numerically) guage cable. Actually, Shunyata has a less expensive cable specifically for "source" components that draw less current.




It only draws 30 W max so I don't think current is a big issue.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

john57 said:


> Many musicians use "entry level" audio equipment without complains. Musicians usually are more concerned about their playing rather than nick-pick their audio equipment with the ones I dealt with.  If I wanted a "top flight" hybrid amp with the same power as the Lyr I would get the Liquid Glass by Cavalli Audio. I have heard it personally and it is a great amp. I have several tube amps myself and I will soon compare the Lyr with my Melos pre-amp which uses the same family of tubes that Lyr uses.




I have both the Lyr and the Liquid Glass and I would not part with either one. Depending on the tube and headphone combo, the Lyr can make a better match than the LG (and vice versa). As an example, the famed Lorenz Stuttgart's sound great on the Lyr but not so good on the LG.

As for the HD800 and the Lyr; So far (my HD800's are new) I've tried them with the Lorenz and RTC glass (both Mullard and Dutch versions), and the HD800's sound wonderful. One of those "I can't tear myself away from the music" experiences.


----------



## claud W

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I have both the Lyr and the Liquid Glass and I would not part with either one. Depending on the tube and headphone combo, the Lyr can make a better match than the LG (and vice versa). As an example, the famed Lorenz Stuttgart's sound great on the Lyr but not so good on the LG.
> 
> As for the HD800 and the Lyr; So far (my HD800's are new) I've tried them with the Lorenz and RTC glass (both Mullard and Dutch versions), and the HD800's sound wonderful. One of those "I can't tear myself away from the music" experiences.


 
  The poster that described my Schiit stack as entry level thought my $$ would be better used buying a Liquid Glass. Lovely amp that uses all my other NOS tube types. What I was trying to decide was would HD 800 or LCD-2 be a good upgrade considering my present HD600 and K702s. What do you think?


----------



## M-13

Has the Lyr gone through any upgrades? I know there hasn't been anything official, but just wondering. The new Bifrost Uber thread shows clearly that Schiit often upgrades the components inside without telling us, I'm sure just little tweaks here and there. Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare a really old Lyr with one made currently, like within the last couple of months.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

claud w said:


> The poster that described my Schiit stack as entry level thought my $$ would be better used buying a Liquid Glass. Lovely amp that uses all my other NOS tube types. What I was trying to decide was would HD 800 or LCD-2 be a good upgrade considering my present HD600 and K702s. What do you think?




I think the HD800 would be a nice upgrade for sure with the Lyr. I don't have LCD-2's so I can't comment there, but I do have LCD-3's and while these do well with the Lyr, I generally prefer them with the Liquid Glass.

My HD650's also do very nicely with the Lyr, but the HD800 is a very noticeable upgrade.


----------



## tuna47

Would the bifrost be a large upgrade from odac with lyr and he50@


----------



## NightFlight

bobdob25 said:


> How is it less forgiving? It doesn't brighten them up, does it? I like a dark, warm, sound signature.





You'll just hear your crappy MP3 for what it is. Full of digital artifacts, poorly executed dynamics... etc. Each compressed track is different but the same on the whole. Depending on the complexity and compressor, some do okay, but disk space is cheap. Flac or even Wav will open everything up.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Would the bifrost be a large upgrade from odac with lyr and he50@


 
  YES. As I type, I've got MBA-->Bifrost-->Lyr-->HE 500


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> You'll just hear your crappy MP3 for what it is. Full of digital artifacts, poorly executed dynamics... etc. Each compressed track is different but the same on the whole. Depending on the complexity and compressor, some do okay, but disk space is cheap. Flac or even Wav will open everything up.


 
   
  FLAC and WAV  will sound identical, unless there's something seriously wrong with whatever software you're using for playback...


----------



## NightFlight

nelamvr6 said:


> FLAC and WAV  will sound identical, unless there's something seriously wrong with whatever software you're using for playback...




There's debate prosessor load affects output. Just saying' the best policy might be Wav. _shrug_

But I use Flac. Seems to work well enough for me. Can't seem to fill my 2TB drive though....


----------



## nailbunny7

I have most of the music in AIFF format because Amarra and iTunes like it that way


----------



## Mediahound

mediahound said:


> If I only have one Shuyata Venom power cable, should it go on the Bifrost DAC or the Lyr amp?


 
   


claud w said:


> The Bifrost. I have a TG Audio SLVR on my Bifrost, A Shuyata Powersnake on my Lyr and an Element Red Storm on my OPPO.


 


   
  I tried a friends Shunyata Venom 3s power cable over the weekend and am happy to report I don't need to buy one. The Bifrost sounded equally as great with the stock power cable. 
   
  Also, not that this is the right place for a debate on the topic, but I ran across this today:
   
  http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/power-cables


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> There's debate prosessor load affects output. Just saying' the best policy might be Wav. _shrug_
> 
> But I use Flac. Seems to work well enough for me. Can't seem to fill my 2TB drive though....


 
  I wish I had that problem! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm going to have to upgrade the heard drives in my NAS pretty soon...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> I have most of the music in AIFF format because Amarra and iTunes like it that way


 
  Saint Steven didn't like open source...


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> I have most of the music in AIFF format because Amarra and iTunes like it that way


 
  My music is either in AIFF or ALAC, thanks to iTunes and Amarra. One thing I do notice though; when I ripped my CD into ALAC, I hear imperfections when I play the music back through the following chain MBA -->Bifrost -->Lyr (or Soloist) --> HPs (HE 400, 500 or LCD 2.2). This is especially true when I am listening to the Beatles CDs. Specifically, I hear snippets of a song suddenly become loud and abruptly vanish (or go down in volume), the LHS (or the RHS) of the HP will become louder for an instant and then the overall sound will "settle down". Nothing major but a bit unsettling and this is not on all of the songs I have, just the older genre (it seems). Has anybody else faced this ?


----------



## NightFlight

kothganesh said:


> My music is either in AIFF or ALAC, thanks to iTunes and Amarra. One thing I do notice though; when I ripped my CD into ALAC, I hear imperfections when I play the music back through the following chain MBA -->Bifrost -->Lyr (or Soloist) --> HPs (HE 400, 500 or LCD 2.2). This is especially true when I am listening to the Beatles CDs. Specifically, I hear snippets of a song suddenly become loud and abruptly vanish (or go down in volume), the LHS (or the RHS) of the HP will become louder for an instant and then the overall sound will "settle down". Nothing major but a bit unsettling and this is not on all of the songs I have, just the older genre (it seems). Has anybody else faced this ?





No. But it sounds like auto gain control in your software failing. Try turning it off. I use flac, and have done some very intense a/b sessions. If there are differences, I have yet to be convinced they are not my own imagination. lossless is decompressed before its sent out to the DAC, so its still essentially the original rip.


----------



## nailbunny7

kothganesh said:


> My music is either in AIFF or ALAC, thanks to iTunes and Amarra. One thing I do notice though; when I ripped my CD into ALAC, I hear imperfections when I play the music back through the following chain MBA -->Bifrost -->Lyr (or Soloist) --> HPs (HE 400, 500 or LCD 2.2). This is especially true when I am listening to the Beatles CDs. Specifically, I hear snippets of a song suddenly become loud and abruptly vanish (or go down in volume), the LHS (or the RHS) of the HP will become louder for an instant and then the overall sound will "settle down". Nothing major but a bit unsettling and this is not on all of the songs I have, just the older genre (it seems). Has anybody else faced this ?



I haven't had any problems at all with my setup (27" iMac -> optical out -> schiit gungnir -> schiit mjolnir -> audez'e lcd3).
I have only ever experienced clipping when rapidly changing the gain on Amarra and no other time than that.


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> I haven't had any problems at all with my setup (27" iMac -> optical out -> schiit gungnir -> schiit mjolnir -> audez'e lcd3).
> I have only ever experienced clipping when rapidly changing the gain on Amarra and no other time than that.


 
  +1, optical out on macs _for me _is way more solid than any USB interface I've had experience with.


----------



## Mediahound

FWIW, I've tried both USB and optical on the new Bifrost on my Mac and have had no issues at all with either. I can't really discern an audio quality difference between the too either. 
   
  A plus on the Bifrost for USB is that it doesn't emit any clicks at all when using USB.


----------



## nailbunny7

mediahound said:


> FWIW, I've tried both USB and optical on the new Bifrost on my Mac and have had no issues at all with either. I can't really discern an audio quality difference between the too either.
> 
> A plus on the Bifrost for USB is that it doesn't emit any clicks at all when using USB.



I actually kind of like the clicks...


----------



## nailbunny7

mediahound said:


> FWIW, I've tried both USB and optical on the new Bifrost on my Mac and have had no issues at all with either. I can't really discern an audio quality difference between the too either.
> 
> A plus on the Bifrost for USB is that it doesn't emit any clicks at all when using USB.



I actually kind of like the clicks...


----------



## RMiller

Finally got Modi+Asgard2 today, those two covered some 7000 miles in 5 days and still seem to be in one piece 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to try them out tomorrow


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> I actually kind of like the clicks...


 
  I do too, but I only hear them occasionally.  Other guys, especially those feeding the Bifrost's inputs from a CD player or a computer, hear them a lot more often apparently.


----------



## M-13

Service annoucement for anyone exeperiencing static with your Schiit Dac. Please disable Windows Aero.


----------



## Argo Duck

Maybe the rip wasn't perfect? Or settings got in the way with those CDs? Might be worth re-ripping...



kothganesh said:


> My music is either in AIFF or ALAC, thanks to iTunes and Amarra. One thing I do notice though; when I ripped my CD into ALAC, I hear imperfections when I play the music back through the following chain MBA -->Bifrost -->Lyr (or Soloist) --> HPs (HE 400, 500 or LCD 2.2). This is especially true when I am listening to the Beatles CDs. Specifically, I hear snippets of a song suddenly become loud and abruptly vanish (or go down in volume), the LHS (or the RHS) of the HP will become louder for an instant and then the overall sound will "settle down". Nothing major but a bit unsettling and this is not on all of the songs I have, just the older genre (it seems). Has anybody else faced this ?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Service annoucement for anyone exeperiencing static with your Schiit Dac. Please disable Windows Aero.


 
   
  Source?


----------



## wahsmoh

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> Finally got Modi+Asgard2 today, those two covered some 7000 miles in 5 days and still seem to be in one piece
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  you're gonna really enjoy it!!!


----------



## Grado77

Over the past month and 1/2 I picked up a Bifrost (upgraded now), Lyr, Modi, and Magni. I also bought an Asgard 1 a while back. Very happy with all of my Schiit gear although after hours troubleshooting I still have a ground loop issue with my Bifrost and any amp I use with it. (I have to use a HumX isolator, not great but just throw money at it huh?) It's the only piece of audio gear in my house that is problematic. At least cheating eliminates the issue.
   
  I received Modi and Magni today. They are perfectly quiet when all connected up (Magni walwart, laptop walwart, etc..) No buzzing, hissing, ground loops, etc..I nearly Schiit my pants when pumping FLAC through Foobar (WASAPI) to my Grado PS500 with them.....wow, talk about bang for buck delivery to the phone. Really makes my E17 look cheap. The aesthetics of these units are killer too.....so cool. Thanks for producing these beauties Schiit......well done!


----------



## Eternalmetal

Ive owned my Schiit Lyr and AKG 702s for quite a while, hooked up directly to the stock headphone jack on the mobo of my PC.  It was noisy, but hey I planned on buying a DAC whenever I got around to it.  Almost 2 years later I got my income tax check in the mail, felt pretty good, and decided to get myself a Bifrost to reward my efforts.  Holy Schiit what an improvement!  I kind of had an idea of what the sound lacked in my previous Bifrost-free configuration, and the Bifrost completely fixed those issues of mine.  The sound stage completely opened up, the highs cleared/brightened considerably, the mids are smoother, more bold, and more clear, and there is finally a bit of low end.  Everything is just much more clear and full, which almost feels like a contradiction, but it just goes to show how much of an improvement in sound the DAC made.  I was almost getting to like my Westone 4s in my mobile rig more than the AKG 702s, but now that the 702s livened up more than I expected with this upgrade I think they are my reclaimed favorite.


----------



## tuna47

I have the lyr had the asgard2 wanted to try tubes I would never go back too smooth for words
Jason has been great to deal with I lost the feet to my lyr sent me 2 more pair he paid postage had them in less than a week great


----------



## NZheadcase

grado77 said:


> Over the past month and 1/2 I picked up a Bifrost (upgraded now), Lyr, Modi, and Magni. I also bought an Asgard 1 a while back. Very happy with all of my Schiit gear although after hours troubleshooting I still have a ground loop issue with my Bifrost and any amp I use with it. (I have to use a HumX isolator, not great but just throw money at it huh?) It's the only piece of audio gear in my house that is problematic. At least cheating eliminates the issue.
> 
> I received Modi and Magni today. They are perfectly quiet when all connected up (Magni walwart, laptop walwart, etc..) No buzzing, hissing, ground loops, etc..I nearly Schiit my pants when pumping FLAC through Foobar (WASAPI) to my Grado PS500 with them.....wow, talk about bang for buck delivery to the phone. Really makes my E17 look cheap. The aesthetics of these units are killer too.....so cool. Thanks for producing these beauties Schiit......well done!




Looks like you are the right person to ask. 

Have you paired the Asgard to both the Modi and E17? If yes, what are your impressions of each pairing? I'm on the fence about getting the Modi as I already have the e17>asgard as my work setup. Thanks in advance for any input you can give.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





nzheadcase said:


> Looks like you are the right person to ask.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have the Modi and E17. As a DAC? No contest the Modi wins hands down. Better clarity, detail retrieval, and top to down extension, etc, etc.
   
  Now.. as a transportable all in one amp/dac combo to use at Starbucks? E17 wins.


----------



## GaryPham

Just wanted to chime in as I'm now a full Schiit.  I'm running the Magni/Modi stack with my Dt880 600ohms and couldn't be happier.  I been playing around with several dac/amp combos prior such as the Audinst MX1 dac/amp, Audinst MX1 dac + O2 amp, Aune T1 dac/amp, Aune T1 + Magni.  Even with the highly regarded Amperex orange globe tube for the T1, I always struggled with the slight harshness of the DT880's.  I was originally a bit worried going full magni/modi, as I heard some people mentioning this combo to be slightly bright, but to my surprise it, it hit the sweet spot for me.  My DT880s now sing, with no sibilance, more bass presence, and great soundstage.
   
  Magni Modi for the win!!!


----------



## Mattjh90

Quote: 





garypham said:


> Just wanted to chime in as I'm now a full Schiit.  I'm running the Magni/Modi stack with my Dt880 600ohms and couldn't be happier.  I been playing around with several dac/amp combos prior such as the Audinst MX1 dac/amp, Audinst MX1 dac + O2 amp, Aune T1 dac/amp, Aune T1 + Magni.  Even with the highly regarded Amperex orange globe tube for the T1, I always struggled with the slight harshness of the DT880's.  I was originally a bit worried going full magni/modi, as I heard some people mentioning this combo to be slightly bright, but to my surprise it, it hit the sweet spot for me.  My DT880s now sing, with no sibilance, more bass presence, and great soundstage.
> 
> Magni Modi for the win!!!


 
  thats great to hear Gary. I am in the market for DT990's and i run Modi/A2 so im happy your schiit stack makes the dt880s shine


----------



## Chawanwit

How long does the Asgard 2 usually ships, it have been 4-5 days since my bro in USA ordered the A2 for me and he said the status is still not shipped. He will fly back to Thailand this weekend, so if I doesnt deliver on time it will be disaster.


----------



## kothganesh

Chawanvit,
   
  did you check the Schiit website ? Alternately just log into the account that was used to order and the status will be updated.


----------



## Chawanwit

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Chawanvit,
> 
> did you check the Schiit website ? Alternately just log into the account that was used to order and the status will be updated.


 
  My bro said its still not shipped and he sent email to the company waiting for an reply. Hope it delivers on time.


----------



## Airrick10

Hello Peeps! I ordered the Shiit Magni a couple of days ago and I'll be hooking it up to my Titanium HD sound card on my pc. Since my sound card has rca outputs, I'll be using rca cables, so I looked through an old box of old cables that I had and found some RCA cables. My question is which of these two cables is a better choice for me to use: *Monster RCA cables or Acoustic Research RCA cables*? Thanks!!!


----------



## Mediahound

airrick10 said:


> Hello Peeps! I ordered the Shiit Magni a couple of days ago and I'll be hooking it up to my Titanium HD sound card on my pc. Since my sound card has rca outputs, I'll be using rca cables, so I looked through an old box of old cables that I had and found some RCA cables. My question is which of these two cables is a better choice for me to use: *Monster RCA cables or Acoustic Research RCA cables*? Thanks!!!




I personally dislike both of those brands.


----------



## Airrick10

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> I personally dislike both of those brands.


 

 Yeah...I know but that's what I have for know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll be saving up so I can get some Blue Jean Cables or some other not so expensive but decent cables.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





airrick10 said:


> Hello Peeps! I ordered the Shiit Magni a couple of days ago and I'll be hooking it up to my Titanium HD sound card on my pc. Since my sound card has rca outputs, I'll be using rca cables, so I looked through an old box of old cables that I had and found some RCA cables. My question is which of these two cables is a better choice for me to use: *Monster RCA cables or Acoustic Research RCA cables*? Thanks!!!


 
   
  Unless you actually get static or other interference on the line, both are fine and will likely sound the same.


----------



## Airrick10

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> Unless you actually get static or other interference on the line, both are fine and will likely sound the same.


 

 Ok Thanks! Yeah, I'll try my Shiit out with these two cables once my Shiit comes in and hopefully they are decent enough.


----------



## R Scott Ireland

I just ordered the Uber-Bifrost with USB. Can anyone tell me if there is any difference between the optical and coax SPDIF inputs? Is one preferable to the other in any way?

Thanks!


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





r scott ireland said:


> I just ordered the Uber-Bifrost with USB. Can anyone tell me if there is any difference between the optical and coax SPDIF inputs? Is one preferable to the other in any way?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  i hear a slightly better low end mid range when using usb, so that's whyat i use.  this may be because my optical output on my Mac is not that great. i have heard they are not all necessarily equal. i have not tried coax digital.


----------



## solserenade

Optical always has the advantage of being not susceptible to interference. (cables proximate to each other, etc.). 

phototristan, what is the issue with the optical out on your Mac?

I also like how lightweight optical is. … But, I do use the USB just as well and have absolutely no problems with it (And cannot discern a sound-quality difference between the two).


----------



## R Scott Ireland

solserenade said:


> Optical always has the advantage of being not susceptible to interference. (cables proximate to each other, etc.).
> 
> phototristan, what is the issue with the optical out on your Mac?
> 
> I also like how lightweight optical is. … But, I do use the USB just as well and have absolutely no problems with it (And cannot discern a sound-quality difference between the two).







mediahound said:


> i hear a slightly better low end mid range when using usb, so that's whyat i use.  this may be because my optical output on my Mac is not that great. i have heard they are not all necessarily equal. i have not tried coax digital.




Thanks for the tips! I think I'll try the optical (and can always revert to USB if need be).


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> phototristan, what is the issue with the optical out on your Mac?


 
   
  It sounds thin in the midrange and always has, even with other DACs. I thought it was just my imagination and how could that be if it was a digital output but I've done extensive listening tests and it appears that the optical out on my Mac is just not up to par or something. 
   
  Male vocals for example sound a bit more full and rich when I use USB instead of optical.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Optical always has the advantage of being not susceptible to interference. (cables proximate to each other, etc.).
> 
> phototristan, what is the issue with the optical out on your Mac?
> 
> I also like how lightweight optical is. … But, I do use the USB just as well and have absolutely no problems with it (And cannot discern a sound-quality difference between the two).


 
  For what its worth, I have the Bifrost with USB and asked Jason at Schiit whether it was worthwhile buying a converter to convert USB to SPDIF/optical. He said USB was best connected to USB in my Macbook Air. I have the Moon Audio cable (shameless plug 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) going from my Air to the Bifrost and the sound is just great.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> For what its worth, I have the Bifrost with USB and asked Jason at Schiit whether it was worthwhile buying a converter to convert USB to SPDIF/optical. He said USB was best connected to USB in my Macbook Air. I have the Moon Audio cable (shameless plug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  the Macbook Air does not have an optical digital out so connecting directly to the Bifrost USB makes sense. I would not go through a USB to SPDIF/TOSLINK converter since the Bifrost USB would be of better quality than the converter. Jason has said this elsewhere (maybe on their website) as well.


----------



## gefski

kothganesh said:


> For what its worth, I have the Bifrost with USB and asked Jason at Schiit whether it was worthwhile buying a converter to convert USB to SPDIF/optical. He said USB was best connected to USB in my Macbook Air. I have the Moon Audio cable (shameless plug  ) going from my Air to the Bifrost and the sound is just great.



Just 2 to 4 years ago many dac mfg had poorly implemented USB inputs, so USB/SPDIF converters were really necessary (my DacMagic for example). Now many have greatly improved USB inputs, so an extra box and the associated cabling can in some cases be a liability. I agree that the Bifrost has oustanding transparency and is very musical through USB.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Just 2 to 4 years ago many dac mfg had poorly implemented USB inputs, so USB/SPDIF converters were really necessary (my DacMagic for example). Now many have greatly improved USB inputs, so an extra box and the associated cabling can in some cases be a liability. I agree that the Bifrost has oustanding transparency and is very musical through USB.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





mediahound said:


> the Macbook Air does not have an optical digital out so connecting directly to the Bifrost USB makes sense. I would not go through a USB to SPDIF/TOSLINK converter since the Bifrost USB would be of better quality than the converter. Jason has said this elsewhere (maybe on their website) as well.


 
  Thank you for the feedback. I was going to sink some money into the Audeophileo converter and that's expensive.


----------



## Taliesin

Just to let everyone know Jason Stoddard is going "start raising the price $50 for every question about when they'll launch" in reference to the overdue statement amps that lots of people are interested in. So stop asking questions because people need to be able to afford the statements.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Yes, sorry to be testy about it, but we get asked about the Statement products all the time.
   
  What you have to understand is while we are committed to doing the Statement products, and we are committed to making them like nothing else out there, the reality is that sales decrease exponentially with price, while care and feeding of buyer neuroses increases exponentially. While we're below the price level where I think a staff psychologist is necessary, we need to be ready for the increased support load. 
   
  What you also have to understand is that these products are at least an order of magnitude more complex than anything we've done--and pretty much anything else on the market--and they need significant shakedown time. Consider that even the amp will be fully microprocessor controlled, and has significant software development time in it, as well as 5 separate PC boards and 7 chassis components. All of these have to be perfect. It's not a $99 Magni with a single tiny board, no wires, and a two-piece chassis. 
   
  And, thanks to the current DSD mania (we are in the Benchmark and Ayre camp, not thrilled about it, but knowing we have to support it) we have to have our DSD strategy in-place before launch. So, you'll see DSD from us before a statement DAC. And no, you won't have to send in your Bifrost or Gungnir to add DSD. That's all I can say about that at the moment.
   
  We're doing some (hopefully) final work on the amp this weekend, and, if it goes well, I will probably be making an announcement about preliminary specs, names, *estimated* price ranges, *guessed-at* possible announcement dates, and showing some renderings soon.
   
  However, there will be no interest list, and no pre-order, until we are absolutely confident that we are ready to ship perfect products. And I will update the price to reflect the $50 increase for inquiries (kidding--for now, anyway).
   
  Bottom line, if you're looking at something else that's available right now, and it works for you, it's better to go ahead and do it, because we will not release these products until they are absolutely done, perfect, and right. Asking 10000 questions won't make them come any faster, I'm afraid.


----------



## Byronb

Thanks Jason for the transparency. The wait is ok with me (more time to save the monies) in the mean time I will just enjoy the Schiit I already have!!!!


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> And no, you won't have to send in your Bifrost or Gungnir to add DSD


 
  Woah! Awesome.


----------



## Jones Bob

Thanks for straight talk and no bull, Schiit!


----------



## Erukian

I kind of prefer the Apple strategy of product releases. Don't comment or talk about unannounced products period until they're announced.
   
  Either way, Jason knows marketing so releasing tid bits like he's been doing just add to the hype.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





erukian said:


> I kind of prefer the Apple strategy of product releases. Don't comment or talk about unannounced products period until they're announced.


 
   
  So do we. Believe me, if I could go back a couple of years, I'd tell my earlier, younger, stupider self: "Keep your damn yap shut!"
   
  Unfortunately, we are now dealing with the aftermath of my excitement. I didn't anticipate the problems we'd have with platform changes, software changes, business growth, hell, the DSD mess, all of that. And so, yeah, we'll release some info about the Statement products as they solidify, because we have been talking about them for so long. But I wouldn't call it good marketing strategy.
   
  But there are many other things coming besides the Statement products, about which we're keeping absolutely silent until they're available.


----------



## Tuco1965




----------



## Rossliew

Just got my Asgard2 yesterday and slowly running it in. First impressions are it drives my HD650 pretty well on high gain. I think it sounds better on high rather than low gain. Still edgy at times but I hope to see improvements as it runs in.


----------



## Biscuitz

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> So do we. Believe me, if I could go back a couple of years, I'd tell my earlier, younger, stupider self: "Keep your damn yap shut!"
> 
> Unfortunately, we are now dealing with the aftermath of my excitement. I didn't anticipate the problems we'd have with platform changes, software changes, business growth, hell, the DSD mess, all of that. And so, yeah, we'll release some info about the Statement products as they solidify, because we have been talking about them for so long. But I wouldn't call it good marketing strategy.
> 
> *But there are many other things coming besides the Statement products, about which we're keeping absolutely silent until they're available.*


 
  Say no more! I will start saving up for the Schiit Bragi - no doubt the name for the upcoming Schiit headphone!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Say no more! I will start saving up for the Schiit Bragi - no doubt the name for the upcoming Schiit headphone!


 
   
  No headphones from us, ever. We know nothing about transducers.


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> No headphones from us, ever. We know nothing about transducers.


 
   
  Will we ever see a ESS9018 based Dac from schiit?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> No headphones from us, ever. We know nothing about transducers.


 
   
  Neither do Denon, they buy their stuff from Foster and relabel it, seems a successful business model.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Neither do Denon, they buy their stuff from Foster and relabel it, seems a successful business model.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> So do we. Believe me, if I could go back a couple of years, I'd tell my earlier, younger, stupider self: "Keep your damn yap shut!"
> 
> Unfortunately, we are now dealing with the aftermath of my excitement. I didn't anticipate the problems we'd have with platform changes, software changes, business growth, hell, the DSD mess, all of that. And so, yeah, we'll release some info about the Statement products as they solidify, because we have been talking about them for so long. But I wouldn't call it good marketing strategy.
> 
> But there are many other things coming besides the Statement products, about which we're keeping absolutely silent until they're available.


 
   
  Looking forward to your speaker amps!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





oicwutudidthar said:


> Will we ever see a ESS9018 based Dac from schiit?


 
  +$50...


----------



## gmahler2u

intergrated headphone amp/dac?


----------



## Taliesin

I vaguely remember Jason saying they weren't going to make a DAC/amp combo as schiit think the digital should be kept seperate from the analogue or something.
  I think schiit might borden their markets out of headfi but make amps not just for headphones.


----------



## Jobot

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Just got my Asgard2 yesterday and slowly running it in. First impressions are it drives my HD650 pretty well on high gain. I think it sounds better on high rather than low gain. Still edgy at times but I hope to see improvements as it runs in.


 
   
  Just got one in myself that I'm going to be using with an HD650 and an upgraded Bifrost that I'm borrowing from my brother.  Haven't had enough time with A/Bs to get a good feel for it yet, but my initial impression is positive. 
   
  On a side note, if Schiit ever decides to go into power management, I think a "Schiit Storm" surge protector would be a top seller.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yes, sorry to be testy about it, but we get asked about the Statement products all the time.
> 
> What you have to understand is while we are committed to doing the Statement products, and we are committed to making them like nothing else out there, the reality is that sales decrease exponentially with price, while care and feeding of buyer neuroses increases exponentially. While we're below the price level where I think a staff psychologist is necessary, we need to be ready for the increased support load.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  All I want for X-Mas is an I2S input in the Statement DAC


----------



## HPiper

Quote: 





gmahler2u said:


> intergrated headphone amp/dac?


 
   Exactly what I was thinking, an integrated amp/dac something along the lines of a bifrost and asgard 2 in one enclosure.


----------



## hodgjy

IIRC, Jason said they will never make such a device.
   
  Quote: 





hpiper said:


> Exactly what I was thinking, an integrated amp/dac something along the lines of a bifrost and asgard 2 in one enclosure.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> IIRC, Jason said they will never make such a device.


 
  Right.
   
  Why would you want to throw away a perfectly good amp when the DAC is obsolete?
   
  Why would you want multi-megahertz digital noise cruising around next to sensitive analog amp stages?
   
  Or do you want an amp/DAC/player/dishwasher/app platform/phone/robotic bartender/fan/dead hedgehog reanimator/car charger that performs equally crappy at all functions?
   
  No combo products.


----------



## frankty

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Right.
> 
> Why would you want to throw away a perfectly good amp when the DAC is obsolete?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good policy!


----------



## Defiant00

Well, I tried to go the portable route and that didn't really work out, so here shortly I'll have some Schiit on my desk again.
   
  Just ordered Modi, Asgard 2 and some HD600s. Looking forward to having some full-sized cans again!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Right.
> 
> Why would you want to throw away a perfectly good amp when the DAC is obsolete?
> 
> ...


 
   
  lol...makes me think of the insanity of the new antivirus programs (Norton cough cough). They now offer about 27 function and don't execute one of them well.


----------



## Avincent52

Quote: 





			
				Jason Stoddard said:
			
		

> Or do you want an amp/DAC/player/dishwasher/app platform/phone/robotic bartender/fan/dead hedgehog reanimator/car charger that performs equally crappy at all functions?
> 
> No combo products.
> 
> ...


 
   
  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 29, 2013
  
  In anticipation of our pending merger with Apple, Schitt Audio is proud to announce its long-awaited Statement product, the Goo Khai-Ra Morr.
   
  A state-of-the-art amp/DAC/DAP/Dishwasher/app platform/phone/robotic bartender/air conditioner/dead hedgehog re-animator/car charger/headphone, the Goo Khai-Ra Morr combines all of the elements of the listening experience into one compact, stylish, affordable $99 package.

 "We modestly expect that this segment-busting product will do for robotic bartender/car charger/headphones what the Newton did for the PDA," said Apple-Schitt CGO (Chief Ghost Officer) Steve Jobs.
   
  "How can we do it?" said Jason Stoddard, who will be CGO (Chief Goo-Khai Officer) of Apple-Schitt, "We poured everything we know about headphones into this product. Air conditioners, too. We're having them built using Chinese child labor. And we figure we'll make our profit on the back end. Sure, the amp will last forever, but between you and me, the hedgehog re-animator won't last a week once the warranty runs out."


----------



## MattTCG

Of course, Jason will get 30 emails today with serious inquiries about this product.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





avincent52 said:


> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 29, 2013
> 
> In anticipation of our pending merger with Apple, Schitt Audio is happy and proud to announce its long-awaited Statement product, the Goo Khai-Ra Morr.
> 
> ...


 
  Ah man, I'm dying...LOL!
   
  But yeah, we'll probably get people asking about it. 
   
  I'll post a status, names, and renderings of the (real) Statement products either before, after, or during TheShow Newport. Don't get too excited--as I mentioned, these aren't going to ship until they're perfect, but because I had to blab about them so long ago, we'll let you know where we are on them as we get closer.


----------



## Avincent52

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Ah man, I'm dying...LOL!
> 
> But yeah, we'll probably get people asking about it.
> 
> I'll post a status, names, and renderings of the (real) Statement products either before, after, or during TheShow Newport. Don't get too excited--as I mentioned, these aren't going to ship until they're perfect, but because I had to blab about them so long ago, we'll let you know where we are on them as we get closer.


 
   
  Just so we're clear on this, I am getting a percentage of any pre-orders of the Goo Kai Ra-Morr (aka The Statement), right? 

 I'll be happy to take my cut in Schitt Bucks TM, which I can then apply toward the long-awaited Robotic Bartender Upgrade for my Bifrost.
   
  Banana daiquiris for everyone! Frosty drinks from a Frosty DAC!
   
http://www.hark.com/clips/zbfsvfjwdq-how-do-you-say-banana-daiquiri


----------



## MattTCG

I can't promise any percentage but I'm ready to summit my pre-order


----------



## Byronb

LOL...That is too funny!


----------



## zackzack




----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Ah man, I'm dying...LOL!
> 
> But yeah, we'll probably get people asking about it.
> 
> I'll post a status, names, and renderings of the (real) Statement products either before, after, or during TheShow Newport. Don't get too excited--as I mentioned, these aren't going to ship until they're perfect, but because I had to blab about them so long ago, we'll let you know where we are on them as we get closer.


 
  Why no proto of the amp at TheShow?


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Why no proto of the amp at TheShow?


 
  Masterful trolling.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





azteca x said:


> Masterful trolling.


 
  Not at all.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Why no proto of the amp at TheShow?


 
   
  Price just went up $50.
   
  How many times do I have to say, "They're done when they're done?"
   
  Or, we can simply say we're canceling the project. Perhaps that would be better.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Price just went up $50.
> 
> How many times do I have to say, "They're done when they're done?"
> 
> Or, we can simply say we're canceling the project. Perhaps that would be better.


 
  $50 that's peanuts.
   
  I just figured you would have a proto for TheShow. Not hassling ya.


----------



## Avincent52

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Price just went up $50.
> 
> How many times do I have to say, "They're done when they're done?"
> 
> Or, we can simply say we're canceling the project. Perhaps that would be better.


 
   
  If you kids in the back seat don't quiet down this instant, we're turning this audio company around and going straight home.


----------



## elwappo99

How Jason has felt over the last 8 months:
   





   
  But we want it noooooow


----------



## Airrick10

Hello Peeps! I recently got my Shiit Magni and so far it's great except for a couple of issues I have. I seem to have some noise when I have the volume dial between 9-10 o'clock. It sounds like when your going through some radio stations on an old radio (bunch of hissing and what not). I also hear distortion on some songs...especially when a piano is being played and I'm not sure what to make of it. Is my Magni defective or is it some kind of interference? Do I need better RCA cables...i'm currently using some Acoustic Reseach rca cables that I had laying around. I know it's not my headphones because I'll plug them in straight to my sound card while the same song is playing at the same volume and everything is clear.


----------



## john57

Sounds like your Shiit Magni is picking up some RF interference. It may be cables and I would just try a cheap pair lying around. Check you room, do you have cell phones, wireless router, Bluetooth lying close by?


----------



## Airrick10

Quote: 





john57 said:


> Sounds like your Shiit Magni is picking up some RF interference. It may be cables and I would just try a cheap pair lying around. Check you room, do you have cell phones, wireless router, Bluetooth lying close by?


 

 I've tried also some monster rca cables that I had and the hissing was still present. My cell phone is in the same room as the magni but i'll try leaving it in another room and see if that helps. I also have a wireless adapter like 2 feet away from the magni. I don't use Bluetooth. I ordered some blue jean cables and I'm crossing my fingers that those cables will take care of my issues.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> How Jason has felt over the last 8 months:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Holy cats!!! That's +$1150!!!!


----------



## preproman

Black enclosures?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Black enclosures?


 
  Please, no. Black would show dust/fingerprints a lot easier. The current enclosures rock.


----------



## M-13

I'm looking for a Lyr 2 or a solid state Lyr. Wait did I just raise the price by $50 again?


----------



## Jaxblack11

Why won't Schiit make a dac/amp combo?? Haha, jk


----------



## MattTCG

That's an extra $50 to you.


----------



## NightFlight

bearfnf said:


> Holy cats!!! That's +$1150!!!!





I'm pretty patient. But camera or no, I just might have snapped.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





nightflight said:


> I'm pretty patient. But camera or no, I just might have snapped.


 
  My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Miracles

I just received my Lyr and Bifrost (with the USB and Uber upgrade) today. I paired them with my HD650's. Prior to this I have been using the FiiO E7. Really nice improvement across the board from what I'm hearing on day 1. More "clear", and I'm able to hear some things I haven't really heard before in certain songs I play. Very pleased with my purchase. I'm pretty curious to see how much better their Mjolnir/Gungnir is, but for now I'm really happy.


----------



## MattTCG

You've got a great setup there and congrats!! My 2c...just enjoy them and never look back.


----------



## kothganesh

miracles said:


> I just received my Lyr and Bifrost (with the USB and Uber upgrade) today. I paired them with my HD650's. Prior to this I have been using the FiiO E7. Really nice improvement across the board from what I'm hearing on day 1. More "clear", and I'm able to hear some things I haven't really heard before in certain songs I play. Very pleased with my purchase. I'm pretty curious to see how much better their Mjolnir/Gungnir is, but for now I'm really happy.



Very good choice and wait until the Lyr really opens up with the tubes.


----------



## NightFlight

miracles said:


> I just received my Lyr and Bifrost (with the USB and Uber upgrade) today. I paired them with my HD650's. Prior to this I have been using the FiiO E7. Really nice improvement across the board from what I'm hearing on day 1. More "clear", and I'm able to hear some things I haven't really heard before in certain songs I play. Very pleased with my purchase. I'm pretty curious to see how much better their Mjolnir/Gungnir is, but for now I'm really happy.




read the lyr tube rolling thread. it may take a couple weeks...


----------



## tuna47

Need help
Pair of tubes under $100 for lyr and he500 listen to contemporary jazz female vocal


----------



## hodgjy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread
   
  Quote: 





nightflight said:


> read the lyr tube rolling thread. it may take a couple weeks...


 
   
  Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need help
> Pair of tubes under $100 for lyr and he500 listen to contemporary jazz female vocal


----------



## Rossliew

Hey guys, I have the HD650 - which amp would pair better with it, the Lyr or Valhalla? I listen to metal predominantly.
   
  Recently, I tried the Asgard 2 but it was not really to my liking...appreciate some advice here


----------



## hodgjy

If you didn't like the Asgard 2, then you may not like the house Schiit sound.  While I have not heard the Lyr, I can say the Valhalla does have the same general house sound as the Asgard 2.
   
  Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Hey guys, I have the HD650 - which amp would pair better with it, the Lyr or Valhalla? I listen to metal predominantly.
> 
> Recently, I tried the Asgard 2 but it was not really to my liking...appreciate some advice here


----------



## Rossliew

I found the Asgard 2 to have expansive soundstaging and good tonality but music seemed to lack body and weight, especially the midbass which I love for metal. Could the Lyr with higher power output improve on it?


----------



## BokononVolta

No experience with the Lyr, but I went from Asgard 1, to Valhalla, and now to Mjolnir.  I found by increasing the power it got more resolving, better atmosphere, soundstage, but I didn't get a thickening of the mid-bass region.  I find that I get that thickening with different headphones, at least from my Schiit amps.


----------



## john57

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> No experience with the Lyr, but I went from Asgard 1, to Valhalla, and now to Mjolnir.  I found by increasing the power it got more resolving, better atmosphere, soundstage, but I didn't get a thickening of the mid-bass region.  I find that I get that thickening with different headphones, at least from my Schiit amps.


 
  I am in general agreement with you that that biggest difference in mid-bass will be the headphones. Usually for me I have more of an issue with too much mid-bass not less. With the Lyr using different tubes you can focus on the mid-bass a bit.


----------



## rrahman

Does releasing info and building the hype, hurt or improve sales of dacs and amps?  I definitely liked it more when I knew additional tid bits of information about schiit amps every couple of months


----------



## BokononVolta

Quote: 





rrahman said:


> Does releasing info and building the hype, hurt or improve sales of dacs and amps?  I definitely liked it more when I knew additional tid bits of information about schiit amps every couple of months


 
  We just need to get some inside moles in the company who work in assembly and parts acquisition, and create a new website schiitrumors.com to publish it all!


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





rrahman said:


> Does releasing info and building the hype, hurt or improve sales of dacs and amps?  I definitely liked it more when I knew additional tid bits of information about schiit amps every couple of months


 
  It helps build but then, for me, it passes a point where it becomes frustrating when nothing tangible is evident.
   
  When there is hype about a new Apple product it is all unofficial and so it can be taken lightly. Apple plays releases like its in a hold-em game. When they got the goods in hand they bet hard and strong...until then they remain alert, ready, and quiet.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> We just need to get some inside moles in the company who work in assembly and parts acquisition, and create a new website schiitrumors.com to publish it all!


 
   
  Maybe someone from Schiit will walk into a bar, have a couple of adult beverages and accidentally leave a statement amp on the table.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> We just need to get some inside moles in the company who work in assembly and parts acquisition, and create a new website schiitrumors.com to publish it all!


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Maybe someone from Schiit will walk into a bar, have a couple of adult beverages and accidentally leave a statement amp on the table.


 
  RIM SHOT.........please!


----------



## M-13

Guys... quiet or the price will jump another $50!


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Maybe someone from Schiit will walk into a bar, have a couple of adult beverages and accidentally leave a statement amp on the table.


 
   
  Lol! Props for this.
   
  Of course, whoever finds it and posts it to schiitrumos.com will get raided by the cops


----------



## BokononVolta

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Maybe someone from Schiit will walk into a bar, have a couple of adult beverages and accidentally leave a statement amp on the table.


 
   
  It would have to be a statement amp disguised as an Asgard I, so as no to arouse casual suspicion.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Just bought a Valhalla to promote US jobs


----------



## gefski

matttcg said:


> Maybe someone from Schiit will walk into a bar, have a couple of adult beverages and accidentally leave a statement amp on the table.



Here in Seattle, they could have an Elysian Valhalla or Elysian Bifrost (seriously).


----------



## evilscientist

Just received my Überfrost. Such good Schiit!


----------



## MattTCG

Very nice!! What does the rest of your setup look like?


----------



## Miracles

So after about two days of listening to the Lyr and Bifrost, they sound really awesome. One concern I have though, I have them stacked together with the Lyr on top of the Bifrost. After a while they feel really damn hot to the touch. Is it okay for them to run so hot? Keep them stacked?


----------



## evilscientist

I'm doing FLAC (mostly via Audirvana Plus, but some iTunes as well) on my rMPB -> Schiit Bifrost (with Über & new USB board) -> Little Dot Mk IV SE -> Audioengine A2s | Beyerdynamic DT-1350s (with the replacement "nubuck" ear pads). Even right outta the box, the Bifrost is worlds better than the Audioengone D1 that I just moved off of—this doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but it's still quite a change. I'm loving listening to everything; it's like I'm hearing stuff for the 1st time. Still burning in my Mk IV SE, but everything sounds spectacular.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





miracles said:


> So after about two days of listening to the Lyr and Bifrost, they sound really awesome. One concern I have though, I have them stacked together with the Lyr on top of the Bifrost. After a while they feel really damn hot to the touch. Is it okay for them to run so hot? Keep them stacked?


 
   
  It's fine. They were designed to be stacked together with the heat being taken into account. If you run stacked you'll always want the amp on top. 
   
  I've run this way many times with no issues.


----------



## justie

Any idea if the statement amp will be bigger than the gungnir/mjolnir stack? it would be nice if I can stack the amp on top of a gungnir


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





justie said:


> Any idea if the statement amp will be bigger than the gungnir/mjolnir stack? it would be nice if I can stack the amp on top of a gungnir


 
Roughly double in size, IIRC.  Er, it'll be roughly taller and deeper.


----------



## justie

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Roughly double in size, IIRC.  Er, it'll be roughly taller and deeper.


 
  Guess that means that the DAC will need to be placed up top for me if i go for the solid state option then. :/
  Cant do anytthing if there is only hybrid available.
   
  Interestingly, which one will u guys pick if u get the choice between SS and hybrid?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





justie said:


> Guess that means that the DAC will need to be placed up top for me if i go for the solid state option then. :/
> Cant do anytthing if there is only hybrid available.
> 
> Interestingly, which one will u guys pick if u get the choice between SS and hybrid?


 
  I don't think that's a bad option. 
   
  SS here.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

My plan is statement dac, then hold on to mjolnir till the hybrid comes out later but I know temptation will be high when the SS amp comes out, so I'm going to pretend at this point I have some semblance of self control haha


----------



## preproman

Although I'm a SS kinda guy..    It'll be very interesting to see how the Hybrid will do with the HD800s..  
   
  At this point.  I may be more interested in the DAC more so than the amp.  I may pick up a used Mojo when the statement amp drops.  There will be some good sales going on then..


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Although I'm a SS kinda guy..    It'll be very interesting to see how the Hybrid will do with the HD800s..
> 
> At this point.  I may be more interested in the DAC more so than the amp.  I may pick up a used Mojo when the statement amp drops.  There will be some good sales going on then..


 
   
  Isn't a well-designed SS as good as Tubes?


----------



## Miracles

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It's fine. They were designed to be stacked together with the heat being taken into account. If you run stacked you'll always want the amp on top.
> 
> I've run this way many times with no issues.


 

 I see, thanks.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





zackzack said:


> Isn't a well-designed SS as good as Tubes?


 
  Tubes = distortion or "tube sound" I think solid state is far more accurate and clinical in comparison.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Tubes = distortion or "tube sound" I think solid state is far more accurate and clinical in comparison.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





zackzack said:


> Isn't a well-designed SS as good as Tubes?


 
   
   
  well, as I understand it, not really or should I say - not in all cases.  I'm not the one to explain as I never owned any tube amps.  However, the saying is that the HD800 will benefit better from a tube amp.  Also, another saying is.  EC amps are as accurate as any SS amp.
   
  This is just from what I've researched.


----------



## hodgjy

This is a big misconception.  It's different technology, nothing more.  The builder can voice the amp anyway deemed fit, including detail retrieval and distortion.
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> Tubes = distortion or "tube sound" I think solid state is far more accurate and clinical in comparison.


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> This is a big misconception.  It's different technology, nothing more.  The builder can voice the amp anyway deemed fit, including detail retrieval and distortion.


 
  The one thing the builder can't control is the tubes, beyond type, people can roll in any make of tube in a given family.
   
  I think I get the distortion idea from THD measurements, I notice anything with tubes is measured like 0.1% but solid state is usually something like 0.000003‰
   
  I prefer tubes, so much more versatile, can change the sound just by tube rolling. With solid state you're stuck with the same sound signature.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





preproman said:


> However, the saying is that the HD800 will benefit better from a tube amp.


 
   
  This is because the HD800 is already sterile, correct?


----------



## hodgjy

Once again, it depends on the design.  Some have equalizers.  Some amps allow op amp rolling.  Others have crossfeed control or the ability to alter the amount of feedback.  Moreover, others have variable damping control.
   
  I say this will all sincerity and politeness--blanket statements always have exceptions.  Perpetuating them only further builds the stereotypes.
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> The one thing the builder can't control is the tubes, beyond type, people can roll in any make of tube in a given family.
> 
> I think I get the distortion idea from THD measurements, I notice anything with tubes is measured like 0.1% but solid state is usually something like 0.000003‰
> 
> I prefer tubes, so much more versatile, can change the sound just by tube rolling. *With solid state you're stuck with the same sound signature.*


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> This is because the HD800 is already sterile, correct?


 
   
  Well,  I don't think they're sterile at all.  I actually really like them with the SS amp I have them paired with now.  Just want to experience the other side at a high level.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I have never heard them so it was nothing but a guess. Who knows maybe Beats Executives sound like HD800's and vice versa


----------



## traehekat

Do any of you guys get weird smudge marks on your Schiit products? I bought a Valhalla used and it came with all these smudges that I have yet been able to remove (although to be honest I have tried anything other than a rag with a little water for fear of causing even more damage), and now the Bifrost which sits under the Valhalla in a stack seems to be developing some smudge marks. What is going on!?


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> blanket statements always have exceptions.


 
  This was posted in a respectful and appropriate context, but taken out of context this sentence is a bit of a mind bender...


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





traehekat said:


> Do any of you guys get weird smudge marks on your Schiit products? I bought a Valhalla used and it came with all these smudges that I have yet been able to remove (although to be honest I have tried anything other than a rag with a little water for fear of causing even more damage), and now the Bifrost which sits under the Valhalla in a stack seems to be developing some smudge marks. What is going on!?


 
   
  I've always been curious how the aluminum cases are treated (on the outside) -- clear anodization? ... perhaps ...
   
  My Valhalla doesn't have smudge problems - for what it's worth, I've cleaned the case with alcohol on a rag, rather vigorously (not gently) ... and have no issues.
   
  I still wonder what the finish is ...   or isn't !


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Once again, it depends on the design.  Some have equalizers.  Some amps allow op amp rolling.  Others have crossfeed control or the ability to alter the amount of feedback.  Moreover, others have variable damping control.
> 
> I say this will all sincerity and politeness--blanket statements always have exceptions.  Perpetuating them only further builds the stereotypes.


 
   
  I defer to a more experienced audiophile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've only really dabbled with low end stuff, in my experience, everything solid state i've owned has been detailed and consistant, i've rolled a few different op-amps in my Maverick D1 and noticed not really a lot of difference.
   
  My Lyr definitely sounds different depending on which tubes i'm using, for me i have a lot more control over the sound signature just swapping tubes in the Lyr than i do with swapping op-amps in my D1.
  No matter which tubes i've used, it's never sounded as detailed as plugging headphones straight into the D1.
   
  Maybe one day i'll have the funds to have one of these top dollar EQ/crossfeed/damping solid state amps and broaden my views a little


----------



## gefski

ilikepooters said:


> No matter which tubes i've used, it's never sounded as detailed as plugging headphones straight into the D1.



Excuse my butting in, but I can't imagine the Lyr being way less transparent than the Maverick's headphone output. What outputs are you using to send signal to Lyr?


----------



## hodgjy

Everyone hears things differently, so it is possible that the Maverick is a more enjoyable listening experience for you.  However, when I owned the Maverick, I quickly concluded that it was a piece of crap.  The headphone stage was rubbish, although the DAC out wasn't as terrible.
   
  Quote: 





ilikepooters said:


> I defer to a more experienced audiophile
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





gefski said:


> Excuse my butting in, but I can't imagine the Lyr being way less transparent than the Maverick's headphone output. What outputs are you using to send signal to Lyr?


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





traehekat said:


> Do any of you guys get weird smudge marks on your Schiit products? I bought a Valhalla used and it came with all these smudges that I have yet been able to remove (although to be honest I have tried anything other than a rag with a little water for fear of causing even more damage), and now the Bifrost which sits under the Valhalla in a stack seems to be developing some smudge marks. What is going on!?


 
   
  It's brushed aluminum, you can't really hurt it unless you dent or scratch it. I would just go to town with alcohol and a clean rag.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





erukian said:


> It's brushed aluminum, you can't really hurt it unless you dent or scratch it. I would just go to town with alcohol and a clean rag.


 
   
  According to Schiit HQ, it's an anodized finish. I know anodizing can be removed, I'm just not sure what household substances will or won't. My Schiit, especially the amps, have developed gradiations in the finish color which I chalk up to heat, like the chrome exhaust pipes on vintage motorcycles.
   
  Oh, and use a lint free cloth, otherwise you'll get small fibers in the finish especially if you go across the grain. Guess how I know this...


----------



## ngyu

Looks like its time i joined the club, finally got my first schiit stack! got a bifrost and lyr for my HD650. I'm coming from an ASUS Xonar STX, and I gotta say, the separation and the crispness and the finesse this stack has compared to the stx is phenomenal. Granted, I only just got it two days ago, so I'll need more time to listen to it.
   
  By the way, does anyone know how to properly set up the bifrost with winamp? I do have the usb version and i'm trying out WASAPI out to optical or USB, but winamp output stream sample rate seems to stay at 44100Hz, even though the incoming stream is sometimes more (48000Hz, 96000Hz).
   
  Thanks!


----------



## MattTCG

I wouldn't say that you "need more time" with the new stack. I'd say that I always am able to hear and appreciate the changes in gear most when I first get it. Then after that, I've gotten "used" to the new sound and have a tougher time appreciating the differences. 
   
  You have a great stack...enjoy!!


----------



## Wraith13

Is anyone feeding their Schiit DAC a signal from other than a computer/CD/DVD player (like an iPod or other DAP)?  I've been looking for a way to connect my iPod to my desktop DAC (I connect it to my Fiio with the L9 cable) and have seen a few iPod docks recommended but it would seem that the Cambridge Audio iD100 is expensive and a POS while the Wadia 170 seems to be non-existant.  I know there is the Pure i-20 still out there.  Has anyone used the digital outs from the i-20 to a Schiit DAC?  How about the Onkyo ND-S1?  
   
  I read like three posts out of a 31 page thread about connecting an i-20 to a Bifrost but nothing about how it worked and/or sounded.  Appreciate any feedback from those that have done this.


----------



## MickeyVee

Just tried the iPad Mini with the CCK into the Bifrost and it works. The sound is thinner with less body from the iPad. Doesn't make sense to me as it should be the same Apple Lossless file - I don't down sample when I sync my music. When I stream from my iPad Mini to my main A/V system, the sound is fantastic so I'm not sure what's going on.
  Doesn't work with the iPhone 5 though - get device not supported.


----------



## Wraith13

MickeyVee, thanks for the quick check on that. I wonder what is up with the iPad's sound and the fact that the iPhone 5 won't work at all (maybe the Lightning adaptor)? I would be using this with my 160gb iPod Classic so I'm assuming if any of them work it would probably be that, though I will probably regret making that assumption.


----------



## Wraith13

Mikey, just re-read your post. Did you plug those in direct with a usb cable or was it using the dock? Sorry, just want to clarify because I have heard that some Apple products can be plugged in directly but that others can't (which would seem to be the case here).


----------



## shfsrh

Listening to some Nirvana with a Magni and Dragonfly with a Mrspeakers mad dog headphone and it sounds really nice.

Well worth the $99.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


----------



## MickeyVee

I don have the dock so CCK(Camera Connection Kit)>USB Cable> Bifrost.  I don't think you can do that with the iPod Classic. You'll need some sort of dock that will accept the digital out from the iPod. There are a few Pure i-20's on eBay.
  Quote: 





wraith13 said:


> Mikey, just re-read your post. Did you plug those in direct with a usb cable or was it using the dock? Sorry, just want to clarify because I have heard that some Apple products can be plugged in directly but that others can't (which would seem to be the case here).


----------



## R Scott Ireland

wraith13 said:


> Is anyone feeding their Schiit DAC a signal from other than a computer/CD/DVD player (like an iPod or other DAP)?  I've been looking for a way to connect my iPod to my desktop DAC (I connect it to my Fiio with the L9 cable) and have seen a few iPod docks recommended but it would seem that the Cambridge Audio iD100 is expensive and a POS while the Wadia 170 seems to be non-existant.  I know there is the Pure i-20 still out there.  Has anyone used the digital outs from the i-20 to a Schiit DAC?  How about the Onkyo ND-S1?
> 
> I read like three posts out of a 31 page thread about connecting an i-20 to a Bifrost but nothing about how it worked and/or sounded.  Appreciate any feedback from those that have done this.




I use an iBasso DX100 DAP as a source (FLAC files) for the Bifrost Uber. I'm using the digital optical (toslink) output from the DX100 to the Bifrost and it works fine. This is the Micca connector I use:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0088IBRJE/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Wraith13

Interesting. Here I have been thinking about just getting a dock for my iPod but perhaps I might look into different DAPs with better output options. Thanks for the idea R Scott.

Mickey, I know you can't use the CCK with the iPod, I just read it as using the CCK for the iPad and not the iPhone and was wondering if you had used the USB cable there.

Shfsrh, thanks for that input, that's what I was wanting to know.


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I wouldn't say that you "need more time" with the new stack. I'd say that I always am able to hear and appreciate the changes in gear most when I first get it. Then after that, I've gotten "used" to the new sound and have a tougher time appreciating the differences.
> 
> You have a great stack...enjoy!!


 
   
  haha thanks! yeah I do notice huge differences already, but i'm just saying i want the whole 'new gear' feeling to pass so I can make a fair judgement. that being said, its already a phenomenal improvement... gotta love the finesse this stack delivers.


----------



## smellyfungus

Quote: 





ngyu said:


> Looks like its time i joined the club, finally got my first schiit stack! got a bifrost and lyr for my HD650. I'm coming from an ASUS Xonar STX, and I gotta say, the separation and the crispness and the finesse this stack has compared to the stx is phenomenal. Granted, I only just got it two days ago, so I'll need more time to listen to it.
> 
> By the way, does anyone know how to properly set up the bifrost with winamp? I do have the usb version and i'm trying out WASAPI out to optical or USB, but winamp output stream sample rate seems to stay at 44100Hz, even though the incoming stream is sometimes more (48000Hz, 96000Hz).
> 
> Thanks!


 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/588677/a-short-audiophile-guide-to-winamp-w-maiko-wasapi
   
  is what i referenced. it should be bitperfect if everything it set right.


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





smellyfungus said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/588677/a-short-audiophile-guide-to-winamp-w-maiko-wasapi
> 
> is what i referenced. it should be bitperfect if everything it set right.


 
   
  thanks for that, i think i set everything right. However, how do I know its running at the correct sample rate? My buddy just got a Gungnir (running through optical) and everytime it changes sample rates, i hear the relays click. My bifrost on the other hand, also running optical, only clicks when i switch to 192KHz. Is that normal?


----------



## smellyfungus

ngyu said:


> thanks for that, i think i set everything right. However, how do I know its running at the correct sample rate? My buddy just got a Gungnir (running through optical) and everytime it changes sample rates, i hear the relays click. My bifrost on the other hand, also running optical, only clicks when i switch to 192KHz. Is that normal?




been a while since I had bifrost. gungnir clicked but not often since most of my music was the same bit depth/sample rate. it should click between 44.1, 48, 96, 192 changes, afaik.

when music is playing you can click the maiko icon that should pop up in the taskbar. it will say what's being input and what's being output. if they match then you should be all good. 

if you don't see it I can make a screenshot later of the dialog I'm referring to.


----------



## ngyu

Yup they match, input stream and output stream. Thanks a bunch!


----------



## younghank

Howdy fellas,

I to am a proud owner of the Magni and the Gungnir. I'm using them with a Hp sleek book 14 - windows 8 (64) and Jriver MC18. I'm able to stream bit perfect using Asio output and it sounds wonderful. But I do have a hiccup and not sure how to fix maybe someone here can shed some light.

I purchased the dac this year around May, it does have the updated USB Gen2 but I get no sound while playing 24 bit 48khz,96, and 192. The file plays but no sound. On the other hand 16/44, 24/44/88/176 stream bit perfect without a glitch. I'm using the windows 8 driver off Schiit website I and uninstalled then reinstalled the driver but still nothing. The same goes for the other output modes on Jriver direct connection, and wasapi file plays but no sound. Also when I go into speaker properties to test sounds for 24/48,96,192 playback I get zero sound but the other files test correct. 

Driver details: U6631-6631A-12076-8.0.11.80(W8-ER-01)

Any advice, thanks,

T


----------



## MattTCG

You should send Jason an email and ask him this question. I have a feeling he will know the answer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  gL...


----------



## Mr.Tom

I've had my Schiit for about a year now, still loving it! Just installed the Uber Analog this morning, and it's mighty fine.


----------



## younghank

matttcg said:


> You should send Jason an email and ask him this question. I have a feeling he will know the answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I did that today actually. His response: try it on another PC and they don't have any issues with their windows 8-Jriver eq. It has to be an issue with my netbook driver. I just emailed Hp tech support ill figure it out sooner or later. 

Thanks


----------



## joebobbilly

Figured it was bout time I joined this thread.  I'm now a proud owner of some used Schiit (odd how that sounds when you say it out loud eh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 couldn't resist)
   
  But yea... hats off to smellyfungus for the excellent and smooth transaction... loving the mojo/gungnir stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's killing time wayyyy too fast.


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Figured it was bout time I joined this thread.  I'm now a proud owner of some used Schiit (odd how that sounds when you say it out loud eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice score on the Gungnir! Now all you need is some tubes!


----------



## justie

mjolnir is ss though


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





justie said:


> mjolnir is ss though


 
   
  Yes but you can extract just that infinitesimally small extra bit of detail and warmth by holding a Siemens CCa in one hand and standing on your right leg, all the while thinking happy thoughts.


----------



## john777

Using a Lyr to drive and burn in HE-500s. Lovely sound which I am told will only get better.

Have a matched pair of Siemens E288CC tubes in the Lyr.


----------



## CraftyClown

Afternoon ladies and gentleman,
   
  I have a potentially daft question for you
   
  I am trying to work out the best way to connect multiple devices via my LYR and I was wondering if there is a pain free way to do it.
   
  I currently have a set up where I am connecting my Rega Planar 3 turntable to my Azur 640p pre-amp and then into my LYR. This is great, however I am about to purchase a Biifrost which I am also wanting to have connected, which is where it gets confusing in my mind.
   
  Is my only option to change source, getting round the back of the stack and swapping out the phonos each time? I am currently doing that if I want to connect my AK100 portable dap, but frankly it's a pain in the arse.
   
  I was just wondering what everyone else does and whether there is something I can add to the chain? Maybe a switcher of some sort that won't mess with the sq? Or does everyone just swap out the cables if they need a different source?


----------



## zhunter

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Afternoon ladies and gentleman,
> 
> I have a potentially daft question for you
> 
> ...


 

 Imho, adding more interconnects in the chain could mess the sound quality. The only way is swapping RCA cables when needed since Lyr has only 1 input. It usually takes me not more than 5 seconds to do this swapping cables when I wanted to do some A/B tests, I don't find it as pain in the ass though, so try to organize your stuff mate.


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> I was just wondering what everyone else does and whether there is something I can add to the chain? Maybe a switcher of some sort that won't mess with the sq? Or does everyone just swap out the cables if they need a different source?


 
  You could look into a line router.  There are cheaper options out there, but I have heard good stuff about the L1 from Mapletree Audio, plus their stuff is beautiful.
   
  http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/otherproducts.htm  (Scroll to bottom of page)
   
  This should not degrade the signal much if at all.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





pelli said:


> You could look into a line router.  There are cheaper options out there, but I have heard good stuff about the L1 from Mapletree Audio, plus their stuff is beautiful.
> 
> http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/otherproducts.htm  (Scroll to bottom of page)
> 
> This should not degrade the signal much if at all.


 
   
  Cheers, that's the kind of thing I was thinking of  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





zhunter said:


> Imho, adding more interconnects in the chain could mess the sound quality. The only way is swapping RCA cables when needed since Lyr has only 1 input. It usually takes me not more than 5 seconds to do this swapping cables when I wanted to do some A/B tests, I don't find it as pain in the ass though, so try to organize your stuff mate.


 
   
  Not easy if your gear is tidily arranged in an open fronted cabinet and you can't readily get to the back without taking stuff apart though


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





mr.tom said:


> I've had my Schiit for about a year now, still loving it! Just installed the Uber Analog this morning, and it's mighty fine.


 

 I agree with this setup.


----------



## Byronb

As do I, wonderful!!!!


----------



## john777

This is for the members of this forum thread using a Schiit Lyr to drive HiFiMan HE-500 headphones, but I welcome replies from anyone...

How much travel do you use on the volume knob? I have installed -20 dB attenuators on my cables to get more variation. Before I only had from 7 o'clock to 9 o'clock to use before it was too loud. Now I have up to 12 o'clock or sometimes just past. 

I am using the Lyr cabled from the tape out of my main amp, so I can listen to any source - LP, CD, SACD, DVD, TV.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Howdy folks,
   
  I am considering buying a Valhalla and pairing it with some HD-600's. My only question is, what to use as a DAC. I'm in my 50's so my hearing is not what it used to be. So I am quite sure that some of the finer points of music detail might not be audible to me. Most of my audio collection is in iTunes. I have some lossless but so far, either I don't own equipment good enough to tell the difference, or my ears just aren't that good any more.
   
  My best setup to date is a Schiit Magni+Modi stack with Beyerdynamic DT770(250) cans. I really enjoy the response curve of those cans, with the exception of the dip at 4 kHz.
   
  I guess my point is, I'm just not quite sure if the added cost of a Bifrost is worth it, given my current audio collection, and my rather aged ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And especially since my source collection isn't going to exceed the capabilities of a Modi DAC, the enhanced abilities of a Bifrost seem overkill.
   
  Thank you kindly for your time and thoughts.


----------



## MattTCG

It will all come down to budget and future proofing. Most of the guys here in your situation would end up buying the bifrost eventually. Curiosity for something better will usually get the best of us. 
   
  If you are trying to stick to a lower budget, you could consider the odac by jds labs with rca outs. It's a pretty darn good dac. I had it...really liked it, but then curiosity got the best of me. So I bought a used bifrost here (non usb) and then later added the uber board...yeah, I know. But now I finally feel like I'm settled. 
   
  gL!!


----------



## dleblanc343

Conduct tests with and without the modi, and if you hear a notable difference you can expect even more with the bifrost or other dacs in that range


----------



## gefski

I think you already touched on what you should upgrade first. The source. Quality lossless files, with your computer optimized to deliver those files undamaged (there are several good software packages available) to the outboard dac. 

I use all wav and flac files delivered by Jplay mini via quality cable to the dac and have a very transparent window on the music. My "trashed through the years" ears are older than yours and I can easily hear dac differences. Mainly, I'm enjoying the music more than ever.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> I was just wondering what everyone else does and whether there is something I can add to the chain? Maybe a switcher of some sort that won't mess with the sq? Or does everyone just swap out the cables if they need a different source?


 
  I ordered a switch box (ZSB) from Decware ($279US with volume control added).
  Have not received it yet but it will do what you are looking for as far as RCA connections go.
   
  If you need the XLR, looks like the Mapletree would be the worth looking into.


----------



## Tuco1965

That looks like a very well built switch.  I'd love to have one of those but $279 ouch!  Probably last a thousand lifetimes though.


----------



## CraftyClown

Thanks for the input guys.
   
  So just out of curiosity, what would be the major downside to using a cheaply built switch, the kind you might pick up in a Radioshack or similar?
   
  Just how badly could a cheaper switch affect things? As I look at some of my set up, I see some of my RCA connects are fairly bog standard as it is and I wonder whether they would already be limiting things in the same way the cheaper switch would.
   
  What I'm struggling to say here is, would there be much point in buying a decent switch, if my RCAs are fairly generic?
   
  Cheers


----------



## Meremoth

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Since you at least deserve a statement with respect to the Statement products, here it is, in all its ugly glory:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Anyone have any insider information on this?  
   
  On the verge of getting LCD-3's and I have a feeling they're going to sound incredible with the new Statement Amp and DAC.  
   
  Was going to get the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo, but with the release of this new gear being so close, I think I might just wait, if the wait isn't that long.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Thanks for the input guys.
> 
> So just out of curiosity, what would be the major downside to using a cheaply built switch, the kind you might pick up in a Radioshack or similar?
> 
> ...


 
  I think it boils down to the way the connections are made and the actual switching mechanism, basically the construction of the switch, you _might_ be able to find a _cheap_ switch that functions just fine.  If its cheap it wouldn't hurt to try it.  I would be cautious with any switch when 'switching' i.e. turn the volume of all components down before turning the selector.  I bought this one out of curiosity and because I live in the sticks and cant get to somewhere I can look at a bunch of options. I also own a Decware amp and really like it so I figured I give them some more business.


----------



## john57

My experience with cheap switches has been that they add noise, crackling and pops. I also find that some cheap switches are more prone to pick up RF interference as well.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It will all come down to budget and future proofing. Most of the guys here in your situation would end up buying the bifrost eventually. Curiosity for something better will usually get the best of us.
> 
> If you are trying to stick to a lower budget, you could consider the odac by jds labs with rca outs. It's a pretty darn good dac. I had it...really liked it, but then curiosity got the best of me. So I bought a used bifrost here (non usb) and then later added the uber board...yeah, I know. But now I finally feel like I'm settled.
> 
> gL!!


 

 But Matt... have you tried the HD 650s balanced on mojo/gun yet? or have you already satisfied that curiosity?


----------



## MattTCG

No, I haven't tried anything balanced. My wallet basically cures me of that curiosity. I'm just too frugal. I'm more of a mid tier guy...bang for the buck.


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea, I thought that way before, thinking "I'll never go balanced"...  then I heard the HD 600 balanced @ a meet... and THEN found a solid deal for a used mojo/gun stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... did the math and realized I'd be already paying 75% of that price for of a new A2 BF stack... so I figured to myself "why not just cry once and go endgame? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




". Wallet did indeed cry... but no regrets tho.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Yea, I thought that way before, thinking "I'll never go balanced"...  then I heard the HD 600 balanced @ a meet... and THEN found a solid deal for a used mojo/gun stack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's reading comments like this that are keeping me poor at the moment


----------



## mhamel

If you're up for some fairly simple DIY, you can build a nice switch yourself and save some money.
   
  Glass Ware sells a switch already mounted to a PCB, nice quality, makes it super simple.  They've got one that allows selection of 3 stereo inputs and one that allows 6.
   
  This is the one I ended up building - apologies for the crappy photos:
   
   
     
  
 
   
   
  It does not pick up any interference or noise, and has absolutely no effect on sound to my ears.
   
    -Mike
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Thanks for the input guys.
> 
> So just out of curiosity, what would be the major downside to using a cheaply built switch, the kind you might pick up in a Radioshack or similar?
> 
> ...


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Yea, I thought that way before, thinking "I'll never go balanced"...  then I heard the HD 600 balanced @ a meet... and THEN found a solid deal for a used mojo/gun stack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  HAHAHAHA. you keep telling yourself that... "cry once". We've (wallets) have been crying a lot lately... it'll never EVER be just ONCE.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Okay guys I am trying to figure this out, which schiit amp would be most usable universally? Because what it is starting to seem like is they all have a specific purpose. I bought a Valhala but I "need" something somewhere near endgame that can work with multiple types of cans (like 600 ohm Beyers and HE-500's)


----------



## hodgjy

Any of the Schiit amps, except the Valhalla, can drive a wide range of headphones.  "Near end game" in single-ended would be the Lyr.  In balanced, it's the Mjolnir.
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Okay guys I am trying to figure this out, which schiit amp would be most usable universally? Because what it is starting to seem like is they all have a specific purpose. I bought a Valhala but I "need" something somewhere near endgame that can work with multiple types of cans (like 600 ohm Beyers and HE-500's)


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

figured as much....


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Any of the Schiit amps, except the Valhalla, can drive a wide range of headphones.  "Near end game" in single-ended would be the Lyr.  In balanced, it's the Mjolnir.


 

 Remember, Mjolnir is quiet enough for IEMs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and enough muscle to handle the most power hungry phones... so I'd consider that "endgame" (sorry bout your wallet)


----------



## hodgjy

But the Asgard 2 is no slouch.  It's one heck of an amp, regardless of price.
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> figured as much....


----------



## MattTCG

^^ This. The A2 is really impressive. It's very good at driving iem's with no hiss, I have the gr07, and power even on high gain to drive orthos. Put the A2 with the uber bifrost and that's end game for a lot of people.


----------



## ilikepooters

Lyr is too noisy for anything low impedance or sensitive.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all, it's time for some more information--this time on Ragnarok and Yggdrasil.
   
  "Wait a sec, Ragnarok and Yggdrasil? What the hell are those?" you're probably saying.
   
  Well, it's simple. Ragnarok and Yggdrasil are the names of our upcoming Statement products--you know, the ones that have been delayed 10000 times. Now, don't get too excited, because this is just preliminary information, it may change, there's no pre-order or interest list yet, the world will not tilt on its axis, benevolent aliens will not overturn the corporate oligarchy, and life will pretty much go on exactly the same. So, sorry about that.
   
  If you want the full scoop, go to schiit.com/ragnarok-yggdrasil.pdf and get the "official" preliminary info sheet.
   
  In the meantime, some considerations that may help you decide if Ragnarok and Yggdrasil are for you:
   
  1. They're both HUGE. As in, 16" wide, 12" deep, and 4" high. Each. These really aren't desktop products. They're also both about 30 lbs each.
   
  2. Ragnarok is singlehandedly supporting the relay manufacturers of the world. With 27 relays in Ragnarok (for volume control, input switching, gain switching, output switching), if you don't like relay clicking, run away now. There will be audible clicking from the amp whenever you turn the volume pot. Yes. This is how relay-switched stepped attenuators work.
   
  3. The Ragnarok hybrid option will be delayed significantly. Yes, we are terrible people. But yes, we also want the tubes to do something meaningful if we end up offering them. So, Ragnarok will be solid state only to start. Blame the microprocessor-managed operational points. It allows us to throw out not only coupling caps, but DC servos, as well.
   
  4. With Yggdrasil, we're in the process of sorting out a number of different approaches to the D/A conversion section. No, we have no details we can release. But there you go. There's still work to be done. However, the rest of it is proven and working, including the trick digital filter.
   
  5. Yggdrasil is fully upgradable, like all of our DACs, and takes the approach even farther—the input card, DSP engine, and two separate analog cards are all on a motherboard that is dedicated only to power and control. So we can upgrade anything about it. If we figure out something that we can upgrade, of course.
   
  6. Yes, you will see more products from us before the Statement stuff comes out. Like DSD solutions for the current DACs and, uh, other stuff. Ah, well.
   
  In the meantime, here's kinda what they will look like. Kinda, as in "this is 100% photoshop, and we're still wrangling with the metal guys."
   
   

   
   

   
  And this is what the guts of Ragnarok currently look like, as we're refining/debugging it:
   
   

   
   
  So, yeah, there's still a lot of uncertainty, but we're getting closer. Thanks for your patience. These WILL be products someday. And then the world will be a happy place where everyone gets along, humans live forever in prosperity, and there's no conflict, war, or strife.
   
  Or not.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## Mediahound

Looks great!


----------



## paradoxper

Hurry up! Antsy antsy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Yggdrasil looks like a beast. Bummed to see it pushed back to 2014, but 
  very excited to see what the end product will be like.
   
  And yea, Ragnarok looks ok, too.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

"Bitperfect"
   
  thank you


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hurry up! Antsy antsy.


 
  You just costed us another $50.!!!!!!!


----------



## ngyu

hot. diggity. dog. droooooooool!


----------



## MattTCG

I'd like to add my name to the "pre-order" please. Wait...there is no such thing.


----------



## Gerzom

2014, this means I have plenty of time to enjoy my incomming Gungnir before my next upgrade (just replaced my Bifrost)


----------



## CraftyClown

WANT!


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> WANT!


 
  OK, that another $150 from last count. Jason, can we stop counting $50s, please? At this rate the Statement products will cost $12,550 or more!


----------



## ckc527

Wow! 9.6W into 50 ohms, the Ragnarok should be able to spank the HE-6. Perhaps it will be the most powerful headphone amp to date?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> OK, that another $150 from last count. Jason, can we stop counting $50s, please? At this rate the Statement products will cost $12,550 or more!


 
   
  No worries, the $50 only applies to requests for more info, usually delivered via multiple emails direct to us. Aaannnd...we don't have final numbers on metal, so I have an excuse to increase the price....
   
  Kidding, of course. It's just that we know we're terribly late, and we're working on it, but Ragnarok and Yggdrasil are just really, really complicated. I don't want firmware glitches, funny noises, humming transformers, operational issues, finish problems, fit problems, etc, etc when we launch. So we're going to take this slow and steady, and spend plenty of time using these protos before they start getting sold.


----------



## MattTCG

So what's up with the names? Not that I'm not tingly over the new statement gear...just curious.


----------



## AK7579

Thanks for all the info Jason!


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> So what's up with the names? Not that I'm not tingly over the new statement gear...just curious.


 

 I think the names are quite suitable respectively. Ragnarok is the "end of the world"... fitting for a statement end-of-the-line amp with such power 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Yggdrasil is the tree that connects all other worlds (the source of all things) with the branches extending to the heavens... also fitting for a DAC I think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## azteca x

So THD is going to be like, what, .0000001%?  
  Seriously though, chassis look amazingand I can't wait to see full details (particularly the digital filters that allow for multiplying instead of Fourier transforms?) and hear from some reviewers.  Sigh!


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> I think the names are quite suitable respectively. Ragnarok is the "end of the world"... fitting for a statement end-of-the-line amp with such power
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  and still Norse mythology of course. =) 15W into 32ohm... makes the Lyr look soft (relatively of course!)


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks for the update Jason!


----------



## nelamvr6

OK, thanks for the update!
   
  I have one question:  how in the world do you pronounce "Yggdrasil"?


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> OK, thanks for the update!
> 
> I have one question:  how in the world do you pronounce "Yggdrasil"?


 
  ig-drah-sill
   
  I reckon anyway.


----------



## Armaegis

Just because...


----------



## zhunter

Waiting for these beasts is like "Ragnarok" - End of the World...


----------



## Mediahound

I assume these will be stackable? I wonder if my desk-side file cabinet can take 60 lbs. on it


----------



## Traum

matttcg said:


> So what's up with the names? Not that I'm not tingly over the new statement gear...just curious.



If I didn't know any better, I'd have said they came from Final Fantasy.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE




----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


>


 
   
  ..


----------



## Mediahound

Do these work with Beats headphones? LOL.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Do these work with Beats headphones? LOL.


 

 Of course, though if someone bought this stack for those HPs I'd recommend they crank the volume up to MAX for some real magic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 j/k don't... you might kill yourself.


----------



## justie

I squealed like a little girl when I saw this!    
   
  Seriously, they look pretty awesome 
   
  Also noticed that on the ragnarok, it looks like u can choose which outputs to use instead of the signal going to all outputs (im guessing thats what one of the small buttons on the left do)
   
  Not sure what does the middle button do though. gain stage?
   
  Again, im drooling


----------



## Zoom25

This should be interesting. Especially interested in the DAC. By the time the new DAC comes out, I should have money for either that or the NAD M51.


----------



## Audio_newb

These guys look absolutely beastly and I'm eagerly anticipating them both, especially the DAC.  Having said that, and at the risk of angering the gods--Schiit, Norse, and otherwise--I'm going to humbly put in a feature request before the buns go into the oven.  Since I'm hoping to plonk Yggdrasil down as the base of my main system, two optical inputs would make me a very happy camper.  Otherwise the Playstation and the AppleTV are going to have to duke it out and I'm not sure how to tell the AppleTV that he really isn't even in the same weight class.  Without totally derailing the thread I do wonder how many people use what at least to my mind are the much less common AES/EBU and BNC connections to begin with.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





audio_newb said:


> These guys look absolutely beastly and I'm eagerly anticipating them both, especially the DAC.  Having said that, and at the risk of angering the gods--Schiit, Norse, and otherwise--I'm going to humbly put in a feature request before the buns go into the oven.  Since I'm hoping to plonk Yggdrasil down as the base of my main system, two optical inputs would make me a very happy camper.  Otherwise the Playstation and the AppleTV are going to have to duke it out and I'm not sure how to tell the AppleTV that he really isn't even in the same weight class.  Without totally derailing the thread I do wonder how many people use what at least to my mind are the much less common AES/EBU and BNC connections to begin with.


 
  Just get an optical splitter or switch. They're cheap and yes they do generally work:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/s/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&field-keywords=digital%20optical%20splitter&linkCode=ur2&tag=tt-20&url=search-alias%3Daps


----------



## HK_sends

Looking forward to both of them!  Must...save...pennies!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Armaegis

At a combined 60 lbs shipping is going to be beastly on those, especially for non-US customers.


----------



## justie

Perhaps only option left is to source them from a retail dealer for non us customers


----------



## joebobbilly

Let's be honest.... if you're gonna fork out $3000+ for the stack... shipping likely isn't that big of a problem for your wallet


----------



## Johnnyhi

Ragnarok and Yggdrasil Sounded like pharmacy products to me...


----------



## justie

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Let's be honest.... if you're gonna fork out $3000+ for the stack... shipping likely isn't that big of a problem for your wallet


 
  Not if the shipping is around 250~300 dollars or more


----------



## sceleratus

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all, it's time for some more information--this time on Ragnarok and Yggdrasil.
> 
> "Wait a sec, Ragnarok and Yggdrasil? What the hell are those?" you're probably saying.
> 
> ...


 
  Yo Bubba Gump !
   
  After dabbling in trying to build some tube stuff......  I have a whole new appreciation for what ya'll make.
  Freak'n Wizards.


----------



## john777

justie said:


> Perhaps only option left is to source them from a retail dealer for non us customers




Looks that way.


----------



## M-13

I hope the prices are in the lower part of the estimates. That would be nice.


----------



## Taowolf51

Oh man, I would love the ragnarok as a speaker amp, and I'm surprised how reasonable the price is. (Way out of my price range, but still quite a bit less than I would expect for an amp like that).


----------



## NZheadcase

Jason! Take my money already! 

Must start saving now! This is exciting stuff.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Hi Jason,
   
  May I know what variants of tubes the ragnarok hybrid amp will be using? Thanks.


----------



## preproman

Hoping for an I2S input on the DAC.  Either HDMI or RJ45
   
  Please, please, pretty please...


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> So what's up with the names? Not that I'm not tingly over the new statement gear...just curious.


 

 Personally, it would be my guess that Jason plays a bit of World of Warcraft 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  http://www.wowwiki.com/Ragnaros
   
  http://www.wowwiki.com/World_Tree
   
  But, I could be wrong. If I had to guess, I'm betting he's a gnome warlock.


----------



## Aaron94

Can anyone here tell me how much of an upgrade it is from the Magni/Modi to the Asgard 2/Bifrost, and what the differences are?


----------



## UmustBKidn

Or, more pictorially...
   
  Ragnaros, the Fire Lord:
   

   
  Yggdrasil, the World Tree:


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the update Jason. It's unfortunate that your statement amp could be referred to as the Schiit Rag. Should've saved "Mjolnir" for your top tier.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Ra





olor1n said:


> Thanks for the update Jason. It's unfortunate that your statement amp could be referred to as the Schiit Rag. Should've saved "Mjolnir" for your top tier.




Ragnarok is nearly the perfect name for the statement amp, I called the two names they picked over a year ago myself, Yggdrasil is almost perfect as well.

Norse mythology for the win


----------



## Aaron94

souprknowva said:


> Ra
> Ragnarok is nearly the perfect name for the statement amp, I called the two names they picked over a year ago myself, Yggdrasil is almost perfect as well.
> 
> Norse mythology for the win


   


  I would have found Odin and Frigg acceptable as well. 
   
  Or maybe the Allfather for one or the other


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> At a combined 60 lbs shipping is going to be beastly on those, especially for non-US customers.


 
   
  If you will order both, ship them to my house, I will drive them personally to you for "Chipolte" money.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Can anyone here tell me how much of an upgrade it is from the Magni/Modi to the Asgard 2/Bifrost, and what the differences are?


 
   
  It's a significant upgrade IMO. Sorry but I don't have a lotta love for the m/m stack. The A2 with uber bifrost is an amazing value.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It's a significant upgrade IMO. Sorry but I don't have a lotta love for the m/m stack. The A2 with uber bifrost is an amazing value.


 
  I'm thinking of ading the A2 with uber bifrost to my Sonos Connect that feeds into a stereo speaker system and also use w/ HP's. I'm hoping it will improve upon the DAC in the Sonos. Also, looking at some of the Peach Tree Podcucts. Curious how expensive the statement DAC will be and it's  merits relative to Biforst Uber and Peach Tree Dac-it or Deco65.


----------



## Anathallo

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Personally, it would be my guess that Jason plays a bit of World of Warcraft
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Or it could be that Blizzard (realistically, Metzen) doesn't have an original bone in their body and they get all their lore from other people's work or ancient mythos.
   
  Excited for the statement products.  They look beautiful - unlike the majority of summit-fi headphone gear.


----------



## g33klunch

Hi All! I just received my Schitt Bifrost Uber and Lyr, haven't had time to un-box them, but I'm looking forward to getting home tonight. I'm very excited!


----------



## MattTCG

Nice!! Post back with impressions and pics if you can. We like to share our new stuff here.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> If you will order both, ship them to my house, I will drive them personally to you for "Chipolte" money.


 
   
  That's a loooooooooong drive.


----------



## M-13

Whers is my Thor and Odin?
   
  I guess Jason is saving those names for something else.


----------



## Anathallo

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Whers is my Thor and Odin?
> 
> I guess Jason is saving those names for something else.


 
   
  Thor and Odin are people/gods - Schiit's always named gear after things/places.


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





anathallo said:


> Thor and Odin are people/gods - Schiit's always named gear after things/places.


 
  I bet they'll use people/gods on non DAC/Amp products, possibly transducers? who knows...
   
  Thanks for the sneak peek Jason. Apple gives a _rare_ sneak peek at upcoming hardware (Mac Pro - Made in USA) and Schiit does the same with their high end product.. Coincidence?


----------



## BokononVolta

Apple couldn't let Schiit have all the glory that day.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm more interested in the Schiit announcements than Apple's.  I don't know about you, but I have zero interest in iOS 7.  
   
  Quote: 





bokononvolta said:


> Apple couldn't let Schiit have all the glory that day.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





anathallo said:


> Thor and Odin are people/gods - Schiit's always named gear after things/places.


 
   
  Well, there's the Magni and Modi...


----------



## Rem0o

Same for me.


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm more interested in the Schiit announcements than Apple's.  I don't know about you, but I have zero interest in iOS 7.


 

 Same for me.


----------



## justie

maybe a stax amp called jotunheim or a pmp called nidavellir down the line? XD


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Well, there's the Magni and Modi...


 
   
  Those are the names of Thor's children. Maybe the rule is "no direct reference to Gods"
  I look up the meaning of Ragnarok, it means the "final destiny of the Gods"
  What a way to name your End Game amplifier


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





anathallo said:


> Thor and Odin are people/gods - Schiit's always named gear after things/places.


 
   
  Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Well, there's the Magni and Modi...


 
  LOL
   
  There is no reason why they can't have a product called Thor or Odin. There is no "rule" to product naming, perhaps except that it has to come from norse mythology. Plus I was just poking fun and you spit out a very serious answer, so I hate you now Anathallo.


----------



## M-13

Now I can tell people I spent $1500 on a Schiit Rag.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Now I can tell people I spent $1500 on a Schiit Rag.


----------



## mikiphile

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I'm more interested in the Schiit announcements than Apple's.  I don't know about you, but I have zero interest in iOS 7.


 
   
  Maybe I sound old fashioned (and I probably do for a 21 yo), but that stuff is useless to me... Id rather give like $500-$600 on cables, than on that iphone..
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Now I can tell people I spent $1500 on a Schiit Rag.


 
   
  hahahahahhaha, as if $450 wasnt enough for a Schiit Bi-frost.. my friends will never understand me.. at least not any time soon.


----------



## moriez

Guys, 
   
  Aside from the HD650/600, what headphones are you really enjoying (a lot) when paired with Bifrost/Valhalla?


----------



## hodgjy

When I briefly had the Valhalla, my DT990 / 600 ohms sounded great.
   
  Quote: 





moriez said:


> Guys,
> 
> Aside from the HD650/600, what headphones are you really enjoying (a lot) when paired with Bifrost/Valhalla?


----------



## TMRaven

I like the names of Ragnarok and Yggdrasil the most-- they are the ultimate beginning and the end.  No better themes to have with statement products.


----------



## azteca x

I feel a little silly having missed it, but it sure sounds like Ragnarok actually powers speakers.  Whoa.  And plenty of wattage for a small to medium sized room!  800mW into 600 ohms is crazy, too.  That's basically double Mjolnir.  It's like monoblocks for your head.


----------



## M-13

Well. My current amp does about 12.5 Watts into 32ohms and my HE-500 has never sounded better. This coming from a previous Lyr owner. There isn't even a noise floor on the HE-500, dead silent unless I have the volumed turned to max. The dynamics are insane. With less powerful amps I was constantly turning up the volume to hear all the dynamics, but with this much power, low volume listening is just as enjoyable. I guess the Rag will give me another 2.5 Watts and I'm thinking more transperency. But yeah, all that power really helps Orthos sing their very best IMO. I believe the Cavalli Liquid Gold does 9 Watts into 50R, and I hear that's the greatest amp ever for Orthos. So I think the Schiit Statement stuff is going to change a lot of people's minds about power.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Well. My current amp does about 12.5 Watts into 32ohms and my HE-500 has never sounded better. This coming from a previous Lyr owner. There isn't even a noise floor on the HE-500, dead silent unless I have the volumed turned to max. The dynamics are insane. With less powerful amps I was constantly turning up the volume to hear all the dynamics, but with this much power, low volume listening is just as enjoyable. I guess the Rag will give me another 2.5 Watts and I'm thinking more transperency. *But yeah, all that power really helps Orthos sing their very best IMO*. I believe the Cavalli Liquid Gold does 9 Watts into 50R, and I hear that's the greatest amp ever for Orthos. So I think the Schiit Statement stuff is going to change a lot of people's minds about power.


 
   
  True. With all the speaker amps I have tried them with, the best using them with planars is that even at low volumes, you still manage to get good bass. Much better for the ears in the long run.


----------



## Llloyd

Yggdrasil


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





azteca x said:


> I feel a little silly having missed it, but it sure sounds like Ragnarok actually powers speakers.  Whoa.  And plenty of wattage for a small to medium sized room!  800mW into 600 ohms is crazy, too.  That's basically double Mjolnir.  It's like monoblocks for your head.


 
  Are you thinking it is meant to work like an amp in speaker system as well as powering HP's?
   
  I only ask, because I'm beginning to look at integrated amps to replace a receiver for my stereo speaker system to use in conjunction with a dedicated HP rig. And, I'm also looking at DAC possibilites for both applications.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Are you thinking it is meant to work like an amp in speaker system as well as powering HP's? I only ask, because I'm beginning to look at integrated amps to replace a receiver for my stereo to use in conjunction with a dedicated HP rig.


 
  That's why Ragnarok has speaker terminals. So yes.


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> Are you thinking it is meant to work like an amp in speaker system as well as powering HP's?
> 
> I only ask, because I'm beginning to look at integrated amps to replace a receiver for my stereo speaker system to use in conjunction with a dedicated HP rig. And, I'm also looking at DAC possibilites for both applications.


 
  Yup.
  "Outputs: speaker terminals, 4-pin balanced XLR headphone, TRS 
  unbalanced headphone, balanced and unbalanced preamp outs"


----------



## john777

m-13 said:


> Well. My current amp does about 12.5 Watts into 32ohms and my HE-500 has never sounded better. This coming from a previous Lyr owner. There isn't even a noise floor on the HE-500, dead silent unless I have the volumed turned to max. The dynamics are insane. With less powerful amps I was constantly turning up the volume to hear all the dynamics, but with this much power, low volume listening is just as enjoyable. I guess the Rag will give me another 2.5 Watts and I'm thinking more transperency. But yeah, all that power really helps Orthos sing their very best IMO. I believe the Cavalli Liquid Gold does 9 Watts into 50R, and I hear that's the greatest amp ever for Orthos. So I think the Schiit Statement stuff is going to change a lot of people's minds about power.


----------



## john777

Sorry if I missed it, but what IS your current amp?


----------



## mikiphile

I am also looking to solve my issue with this, which is driving a pair of bookshelves. Something like the B&W 685. I was initially thinking of getting a Rotel power amp, to pair with the Lyr as pre-amp, but eventually realized its too much of gear to have, as I am a student on the move.
   
  This fits the bill perfectly.
   
  Im wondering though, if Ragnarok has enough power into 8 ohms to fully push the 88 dB 685s... is it like 60 W into 8 ohms? Is that enough? B&W says between 25 and 100 W is sufficient.. 
   
  I get different opinions.. some saying that even a 100 is not enough, apparently its better to have headroom, than not drive them well. Some say thats a total exaggeration.. I guess 60 W is fine?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Anathallo

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> LOL
> 
> There is no reason why they can't have a product called Thor or Odin. There is no "rule" to product naming, perhaps except that it has to come from norse mythology. Plus I was just poking fun and you spit out a very serious answer, so I hate you now Anathallo.


 
   
  Actually I never thought my response would be taken seriously - especially because of Magni/Modi.  Shows how well humour is reflected in text.
   
  I hate you more.


----------



## hodgjy

Does it also protect against HPV?
   
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Yggdrasil


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> LOL
> 
> There is no reason why they can't have a product called Thor or Odin. There is no "rule" to product naming, perhaps except that it has to come from norse mythology. Plus I was just poking fun and you spit out a very serious answer, so I hate you now Anathallo.


 
   
  Thor - New Bookshelf Speaker
  Odin - Statement Floorstanding Speaker
   
  Hear Thor sings and Odin rumbles
   
  BTW naming your amp Ragnarok is super awesome !


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





zackzack said:


> Thor - New Bookshelf Speaker
> Odin - Statement Floorstanding Speaker
> 
> Hear Thor sings and Odin rumbles
> ...


 

 As cool as Thor and Odin would be, they already said... these are their "Statement" products... aka Flagship, as well they said pretty clearly no transducers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 too bad though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure they would of been the Schiit.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm wondering about what else that they are working on?


----------



## mangler

Is Ragnarok a balanced amp that also has TRS outs (like Liquid Gold) or an unbalanced amp that has XLR outs (like Liquid Glass)? I think it's probably balanced because it has the same circlotron-style output topology as Mjolnir, but can anybody confirm this?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





mangler said:


> Is Ragnarok a balanced amp that also has TRS outs (like Liquid Gold) or an unbalanced amp that has XLR outs (like Liquid Glass)? I think it's probably balanced because it has the same* circlotron-style output topology as Mjolnir,* but can anybody confirm this?


 
   
  Confirmed..


----------



## john57

My guess is that the Ragnarok has additional circuitry to have a unbalanced 1/4 jack next to the balanced outs provided by the circlotron-style output.


----------



## mangler

Thanks guys. It sounds like this amp has everything you could ask for and then some! It's time to start saving


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





mangler said:


> Thanks guys. It sounds like this amp has everything you could ask for and then some! It's time to start saving


 
   
  I suppose a lot of Mjolnirs will be for sale..


----------



## zackzack

Be happy with what you have
   
   

   
  My Gungnir


----------



## mangler

Mine will be  I am curious how they implemented the single ended out though, since it sounds like they tried to add one to the Mjolnir but didn't like the way it sounded. I know they wont put out a schitty product (sorry, i had to) so I guess they must have figured it out  I'm just wondering what they did to get it to work


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





preproman said:


> I suppose a lot of Mjolnirs will be for sale..


 
   
  Meh, I didn't like 'em to begin with


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Meh, I didn't like 'em to begin with


 

 You're... joking right? Just wanna be sure.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> I'm wondering about what else that they are working on?


 
   
  Uber upgrade for Gungnir?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seems like the next logical step for upgrades. Unless they're doin Valhalla 2 and Lyr 2


----------



## DenonBeaver

Does anyone have an idea on what type of feet this Asgard has on it? I want those so bad!


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> You're... joking right? Just wanna be sure.


 
   
  Nope. They just didn't do it for me. Tried them with the HD800, LCD2 and HE-6. It felt shouty with all of them, particularly the LCD2.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Nope. They just didn't do it for me. Tried them with the HD800, LCD2 and HE-6. It felt shouty with all of them, particularly the LCD2.


 
   
  So what amp did you like better with the LCD-2?


----------



## mac336

must...have...tube...ragnarok....


----------



## justie

no one considered the possibility of a stax compatible mjolnir? XD
   
  or maybe a schiit receiver lol


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





anathallo said:


> Or it could be that Blizzard (realistically, Metzen) doesn't have an original bone in their body and they get all their lore from other people's work or ancient mythos.
> ...


 
   
  Well, yeah, ok, but, I just wanted to believe, for a moment, that this big fire lord thingy appears in this big tree-city place, sporting a pair of Beyerdynamic cans (with good bass and magically flat high frequency response), and hands me the pink slip to my own brand new set of Schiit statement gear, playing my favorite song, complete with a female night elf to rub my shoulders as I relax in my recliner and disappear into the ether...
   
  I can dream, can't I?


----------



## kothganesh

quote name="UmustBKidn" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/2415#post_9524653"]
Well, yeah, ok, but, I just wanted to believe, for a moment, that this big fire lord thingy appears in this big tree-city place, sporting a pair of Beyerdynamic cans (with good bass and magically flat high frequency response), and hands me the pink slip to my own brand new set of Schiit statement gear, playing my favorite song, complete with a female night elf to rub my shoulders as I relax in my recliner and disappear into the ether...

I can dream, can't I?
[/quote
UMustBKidn


----------



## MattTCG

My plan to wait till the statement products are released and then buy the Gungnir and Mojo used.


----------



## cthalupa

So, Lyr / LCD-2.2 owners that have also owned both the unupgraded Bifrost and the Uber... Is it worth the cost to get it upgraded?
   
  The whole 'being without it' for a while is a bigger detriment to the idea for me than the money, but if it's really worth it, I guess I should go for it.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> My plan to wait till the statement products are released and then buy the Gungnir and Mojo used.


 

 +1 yes Matt... come to the dark, errr balanced side


----------



## MattTCG

I think that the consensus is certainly yes. It's worth it IMO for sure. It was an easy 30 minutes to swap out there board and that was being very cautious. And only $70 for a nice upgrade...heck yeah it's worth it. 
   
  As far as what you get for your money. It sounds more resolved and accurate than before. There is better detail in classical music now. For pop/EDM, the bass have more weight and maintains it's tightness and texture. That's what I hear anyway.


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I think that the consensus is certainly yes. It's worth it IMO for sure. It was an easy 30 minutes to swap out there board and that was being very cautious. And only $70 for a nice upgrade...heck yeah it's worth it.
> 
> As far as what you get for your money. It sounds more resolved and accurate than before. There is better detail in classical music now. For pop/EDM, the bass have more weight and maintains it's tightness and texture. That's what I hear anyway.


 

 Ah, I was thinking about sending it in to get it done.
   
  Are there any guides/how-tos anyone has written on how to do the replacement? I'm not uncomfortable with the thought of doing the swap myself with a bit of hand holding. I've done a bit of repair on other electronics I've had before when needed. Re-soldering, and so on.
   
  Edit: Wow, I'm dumb. Didn't even realize there was a dedicated thread for the Uber upgrade in the source forum. Reading through it now!
  Edit2: Of course, there it is right on page 2! http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695


----------



## MattTCG

^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was just about to provide the link. It's really really easy. Be sure following proper grounding procedures and discharge any static you may have. It took me 30 minutes but it could be done in 15. If you've soldered component, this will be a cake walk.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





mangler said:


> Thanks guys. It sounds like this amp has everything you could ask for and then some! It's time to start saving


 
  And, I assume a fair ammount of inputs for various compenents-CDP, streamers, etc. My hope would be use it like an integrated amp with various inputs for my stereo system.


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yep! Thanks 
   
  Pulling the trigger on the upgrade now.


----------



## Kremer930

How cool does the new statement gear look. It has been a long wait but at least we may be getting closer to the holy grail! Pics and details on Facebook.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





preproman said:


> So what amp did you like better with the LCD-2?


 
   
  I actually felt the Lyr was a better matchup. I liked the tonality from my Nuforce DAC/HAP-100, though both lacked the sheer muscle of the Schiit offerings. The HDP was ok, though oddly I felt it sounded better with the HE-6 (yes really; it just didn't have a lot of headroom).


----------



## markm1

I don't mean to open Pandora's box, but would anyone recommend an RCA cable to connect my Asgard-2 to my dedicated components. I've had my A-2 for about a month. I had some cheap RCA cables I had on hand. I know there's a whole debate about cables. So, I'm wondering if it's worth buying cables in the $25-50 range vs the <$10.00 generic cables I had on hand in my house?  And, what kind of difference I'll be able to perceive?
   
I'm connecting my Asgard 2 to a stereo receiver, and sometimes directly to my CDP, and sometimes to a Sonos connect...my stereo/Sonos/CD player all stacked together. The CDP is a dedicated CD player used w/ speaker stystem. If it makes a noticeable difference, I may upgrade the cables between my CDP and receiver and my Sonos and receiver.
   
Much Thanks!


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





markm1 said:


> I don't mean to open Pandora's box, but would anyone recommend an RCA cable to connect my Asgard-2 to my dedicated components. I've had my A-2 for about a month. I had some cheap RCA cables I had on hand. I know there's a whole debate about cables. So, I'm wondering if it's worth buying cables in the $25-50 range vs the <$10.00 generic cables I had on hand in my house?  And, what kind of difference I'll be able to perceive?
> 
> I'm connecting my Asgard 2 to a stereo receiver, and sometimes directly to my CDP, and sometimes to a Sonos connect...my stereo/Sonos/CD player all stacked together. The CDP is a dedicated CD player used w/ speaker stystem. If it makes a noticeable difference, I may upgrade the cables between my CDP and receiver and my Sonos and receiver.
> 
> Much Thanks!


 
  I think everyone can agree that Blue Jeans Cable makes excellent, sturdy, electrically sound cables.  They connect everything with RCA plugs in my system.  They're the preferred cable of plenty of people over at Audioholics (and here, too, I'd imagine). http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Cables won't do diddly sh#t


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Cables won't do diddly sh#t


 
   
  This.
   
  The audio signal still has to flow through all the cheap components and cheap solder in its path.


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Cables won't do diddly sh#t


 
  I'd say that's a little hyperbolic.  Cables won't imbue your music or audio with magical properties, but something like the Blue Jeans RCA compared to an umarked $2 cable from an anonymous Chinese factory - I'd say there's a bit of difference, and measurements of their electrical properties certainly reflect that.  Do I see a whole lot of reason to spend MORE than you would on the Blue Jeans?  No.  But if you have solid components and want to rest easy knowing your signal is unmolested by poor design, pick some up.  Or don't.  Just dig the tunes!


----------



## MattTCG

Get the bluejeans cable. Good quality and reasonable price.


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





azteca x said:


> I think everyone can agree that Blue Jeans Cable makes excellent, sturdy, electrically sound cables.  They connect everything with RCA plugs in my system.  They're the preferred cable of plenty of people over at Audioholics (and here, too, I'd imagine). http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


 
  Much Thanks.


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Get the bluejeans cable. Good quality and reasonable price.


 
  Not to mention they are made to order in America from Belden (also American) cable, if you're from the USA and into that.


----------



## HPiper

I second the Bluejeans Cable recommendation, very good cables and very good prices as well.


----------



## markm1

Thanks for the cable recommendations. Sounds like Bluejeans is the way to go.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Cables won't do diddly sh#t


 






 um, they indeed do _something,_ because, if you don't have them, there would be no sound at all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But on a serious note, getting a good quality cable is important, this does not mean more expensive, just good quality.


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Cables won't do diddly sh#t


 
  Neither will trolling...


----------



## mac336

will the hybrid Ragnarok have the same power output into the speaker outputs (100 watts into 4 ohms) that the solid state ragnraok does ?


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





pelli said:


> Neither will trolling...


 
   
  When is it trolling? He was responding to a specific question about whether it's worth it to pay extra for cables.
   
  This is just my two cents, but it seems like anytime someone expresses their opinion about cables on here where they're a non-believer they're automatically trolling. If they're a cable believer they're seen as sharing their experiences because cables are _SO_ subjective nobody will tell them they're full of BS. Aren't double standards fun?


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





mac336 said:


> will the hybrid Ragnarok have the same power output into the speaker outputs (100 watts into 4 ohms) that the solid state ragnraok does ?


 
  Pretty sure Jason just added $50 to the MSRP of the hybrid statement amp by you asking that question!


----------



## hodgjy

He should just go ahead and rename the statement amp as Voldemort.
   
  Quote: 





erukian said:


> Pretty sure Jason just added $50 to the MSRP of the hybrid statement amp by you asking that question!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> He should just go ahead and rename the statement amp as Voldemort.


 
   
  Then he would owe licensing fees


----------



## hodgjy

It was a joke about "the name we shall not mention."
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Then he would owe licensing fees


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





erukian said:


> When is it trolling? He was responding to a specific question about whether it's worth it to pay extra for cables.
> 
> This is just my two cents, but it seems like anytime someone expresses their opinion about cables on here where they're a non-believer they're automatically trolling. If they're a cable believer they're seen as sharing their experiences because cables are _SO_ subjective nobody will tell them they're full of BS. Aren't double standards fun?


 
  Thanks for your input Eurikan.  I agree with you on many points, but I objected for different reasons.  I have no problem with people not believing in better performance from expensive cables.  To be honest, I probably fall into that camp.  What I think was trolling was:
   
  1) Not responding to the OP question which was about what cables someone would recommend, Not IF cables make a difference.  Although there may be (in some peoples experience) no reason for expensive interconnects, I think most of us can agree it is worth getting something that has decent build quality and at least some cosmetic appeal rather than the cheapest plastic junk money can buy.  In that spirit there is room for recommendations on some type of cable, even if it is monoprice or some other inexpensive equivalent that people like the feel and build quality of.
   
  2) The short abrasive answer rude to the OP, especially when BLAKENEDPLAGUE's "about me" is "Back from banning with a better sense of respect."  I think this response was anything but respectful.
   
   
   
  I agree that people overuse accusations of trollling as a dismissive rebuttal, but in my perception the post was intended to be at least a little inflammatory, 
   
  Anyways, to get back on topic...  I love this Schiit.  The statement gear looks awesome.  I am not sure they are in the cards in the near future.  My money is going to analog gear at the moment. Maybe someday.  For the time being I couldn't be happier with my Gungir / Mojo / Lcd-2 set-up.  Whenever I get the upgrade bug I take a couple days off and when I put those headphones back on I am back to audio bliss.


----------



## markm1

I didn't mean to start a fire storm over cables. I know there are strong opinions. I think the point that to get any sound, one obviously has to connect a source to a component in some fashion makes sense.  I really just wanted to know if it was worth investing a few extra bucks into cables that are better quality than the inexpensive Target/Walmart variety.
   
  Thanks for your responses.


----------



## commtrd

pelli said:


> erukian said:
> 
> 
> > When is it trolling? He was responding to a specific question about whether it's worth it to pay extra for cables.
> ...




Agree with the upgraditis. In camera speak (Nikon) it is NAS. Nikon acquisition syndrome! 
While it would be awesome to buy a hi-end tube amp and a GS-XII or other extreme quality amp/dac and high dollar cables etc the fact is the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack is really decent with the Audeze cans and is an awesome intermediate level to be on within the audiophile journey. Is there better equipment to be had? Of course. Is there better value per dollar spent? Very debatable but IMHO not really. All totally subjective of course as all things audiophile are. I should have waited to get the new cable to try it on the 2r2s first but I really wanted to try the LCD3s. Oh well.


----------



## olor1n

Lol, the Gungnir/MJ stack is more than "decent" for the LCD-2. You could call it a day there if the Audez'e is your primary headphone. The same could be said of the Bifrost/Lyr (with the right tubes) stack. The LCD-2 isn't really that demanding. The Gungnir/MJ stack may even be borderline overkill for it.


----------



## moriez

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> When I briefly had the Valhalla, my DT990 / 600 ohms sounded great.


 
   
  Thanks. Those and the DT880 600 ohms are on my short list.
  
  Any other Bifrost/Valhalla owners who favour one of their headphones with this stack?
  I'm also locking on to the Hifiman HE-400. Experiences with above combo?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Lol, the Gungnir/MJ stack is more than "decent" for the LCD-2. You could call it a day there if the Audez'e is your primary headphone. The same could be said of the Bifrost/Lyr (with the right tubes) stack. The LCD-2 isn't really that demanding. The Gungnir/MJ stack may even be borderline overkill for it.


 
   
  I've owned all the SE Schiit gear and have stuck with the lyr/bf for over a year. Considering all the amps and dacs that I've owned the lyr/bf competes really well against everything I've. I have a friend who went from the lyr/bf to Mojo/Gungnir and says that it was a huge improvement on all his planar cans including the lcd's. Take that fwiw.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Would it be considered blasphemy to run a Modi into an Asgard 2?


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Would it be considered blasphemy to run a Modi into an Asgard 2?


 
  Whatever is in your budget.  I ran the Mojo from a Modi for some time while I was saving up for the Gungir.  It was a big jump when I upgraded but the Modi did pretty well for what it was.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Would it be considered blasphemy to run a Modi into an Asgard 2?


 
   
  Not at all. I think that Modi is decent. Not my favorite though. Even compared to the odac, the odac was clearly better IMO. The bifrost spanks them both. If I were looking to save money I'd go with JDS labs odac with RCA's.


----------



## hodgjy

HE-400 are low impedance and would be a bad match with an OTL amp, such as the Valhalla.
   
  Quote: 





moriez said:


> Thanks. Those and the DT880 600 ohms are on my short list.
> 
> Any other Bifrost/Valhalla owners who favour one of their headphones with this stack?
> I'm also locking on to the Hifiman HE-400. Experiences with above combo?


----------



## BokononVolta

I will second the DT990 600 ohm with the Valhalla/Bifrost combo.... a great match!


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Would it be considered blasphemy to run a Modi into an Asgard 2?


 

 I'm running it, nothing wrong with that, for 99$ there's no beating it. Easy to upgrade it later.


----------



## knights

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> I'm running it, nothing wrong with that, for 99$ there's no beating it. Easy to upgrade it later.


 
  im also running Modi with Lyr and EF5…


----------



## Llloyd

Not having heard the modi, I still feel it's the right pairing with the asgard if you never plan to upgrade. The bifrost is a little much for the asgard I would say from my experience.  Meaning the asgard does not reveal all the bifrost has to offer. Save yourself some money


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





pelli said:


> Thanks for your input Eurikan.  I agree with you on many points, but I objected for different reasons.  I have no problem with people not believing in better performance from expensive cables.  To be honest, I probably fall into that camp.  What I think was trolling was:
> 
> 1) Not responding to the OP question which was about what cables someone would recommend, Not IF cables make a difference.  Although there may be (in some peoples experience) no reason for expensive interconnects, I think most of us can agree it is worth getting something that has decent build quality and at least some cosmetic appeal rather than the cheapest plastic junk money can buy.  In that spirit there is room for recommendations on some type of cable, even if it is monoprice or some other inexpensive equivalent that people like the feel and build quality of.
> 
> 2) The short abrasive answer rude to the OP, especially when BLAKENEDPLAGUE's "about me" is "Back from banning with a better sense of respect."  I think this response was anything but respectful.


 
   
  True, I could have elaborated with
   
  "More than likely, upgraded cables will provide little to no advantage"
   
  In this aspect of our hobbie, there is only plausible cause for spending money on high tech interconnects with no concrete evidence beyond analog interconnects. Digital cables either work or they don't, while the the cleanliness of the signal could be a concern there is not much a digital signal will put up with before it outright quits


----------



## HPiper

I do buy good interconnects, but not the$100 and up ones. The main thing I am looking for is a real good, gold plated connector and a nice flexible cable. You can get those for around $20-$40 and that is as high on the food chain as I am willing to go in the cable department.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Do these work with Beats headphones? LOL.


 
  are you trolling? beats headphones need amping since when?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> Ra
> Ragnarok is nearly the perfect name for the statement amp, I called the two names they picked over a year ago myself, Yggdrasil is almost perfect as well.
> 
> Norse mythology for the win


 
  wait what? link?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Whers is my Thor and Odin?
> 
> I guess Jason is saving those names for something else.


 
  yeah probably-.-


----------



## Overwerk

i have zero interest in apple since jobs died


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I like the names of Ragnarok and Yggdrasil the most-- they are the ultimate beginning and the end.  No better themes to have with statement products.


 
   
  exactly


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I like the names of Ragnarok and Yggdrasil the most-- they are the ultimate beginning and the end.  No better themes to have with statement products.


 
   
  convert them, or ignore their bs, or don't show them more audio stuff


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> LOL
> 
> There is no reason why they can't have a product called Thor or Odin. There is no "rule" to product naming, perhaps except that it has to come from norse mythology. Plus I was just poking fun and you spit out a very serious answer, so I hate you now Anathallo.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I like the names of Ragnarok and Yggdrasil the most-- they are the ultimate beginning and the end.  No better themes to have with statement products.


 
   
  haha i like your attitude


----------



## CraftyClown

Trying to build up your post count Overwerk?


----------



## paradoxper

Lol. He seems on point to me.


----------



## Overwerk

my name is OVERwerk for a reason)


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> my name is OVERwerk for a reason)


 
   
  Indeed it is


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> my name is OVERwerk for a reason)


 
  I think OVERpost would have been more appropriate.


----------



## dougiefresh67

Well, I've joined the Schiit Legions. I thought it would be appropriate to show these off right here in this thread.
   
  I hope the link works....
   
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97620041@N08/9051714379/


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I think *OVERpost *would have been more appropriate.


----------



## jmsaxon69

dougiefresh67 said:


> Well, I've joined the Schiit Legions. I thought it would be appropriate to show these off right here in this thread.
> 
> I hope the link works....
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/97620041@N08/9051714379/




Cool pic! Nice setup! I should have my Valhalla on Monday and will get the DAC as $$ permits! So mine will look the same but with tubes coming out of the top. Haha! 

So what phones are you driving with that setup?


----------



## BokononVolta

Quote: 





dougiefresh67 said:


> Well, I've joined the Schiit Legions. I thought it would be appropriate to show these off right here in this thread.
> 
> I hope the link works....
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/97620041@N08/9051714379/


 
  Looks good!  You got it cranked too 
  (well, depending on what headphones you are using)


----------



## dougiefresh67

Sennheiser HD 558 or HD 380 Pro. The volume setting is anywhere between 10 and 12 depending....
  I can say that for me, I can run a slightly higher volume on the 558s. Maybe due to the open design?
   
  Just getting my feet wet with HiFi and so far very happy.
   
  I picked up a Fostex HP-A3 for the laptop right before these arrived. I guess I could post a pic tomorrow. It's compact so it should travel easily enough. Sounds great to me.
   
  See you guys at the Socal Meet if you're going.


----------



## dougiefresh67

Those levels are on the Lo gain setting, fyi....


----------



## g33klunch

I unboxed my new Bifrost Uber and Lyr last Friday and I'm loving the combo. I've been busy listening to music and enjoying the new sound. I'm still burning in the stock GE tubes before I try some other tubes.


----------



## john777

Try Siemens E288CC when you get rolling.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> Not having heard the modi, I still feel it's the right pairing with the asgard if you never plan to upgrade. The bifrost is a little much for the asgard I would say from my experience.  Meaning the asgard does not reveal all the bifrost has to offer. Save yourself some money


 
   
  What would you say about the Valhalla and Bifrost?
   
  I guess I am mulling over what to get for my next setup. I really like my Magni+Modi stack (driving Beyer DT770s), it is in my weeknight "home away from home", and I am quite happy with that setup in that location. But I want something for my weekend home. And I want to improve on that setup.
   
  I really like the Schiit gear (though I must admit I am tempted by the Bottlehead Crack, and yes I have sufficient electrical skill and equipment to assemble one). Nothing is set in stone, though I am also quite sure the statement gear is outside of my budget.
   
  I'm also not sure what choice should come first, the cans or what drives them. I'll say I really like the bassy DT770's, but I'm not happy about the high end of those cans - bright in one spot, and weak in another. I suppose if I could find some cans with the same bass response and a flatter high end, that would be perfect. And I'm leaning towards a tube amp, though again nothing is set in stone.
   
  I'm terrible, aren't I?


----------



## CraftyClown

If you're going BiFrost, why not pair it with the Lyr. I'm just about to pull the trigger on the Uber Bifrost. From what I hear the pairing is magical


----------



## john777

craftyclown said:


> If you're going BiFrost, why not pair it with the Lyr. I'm just about to pull the trigger on the Uber Bifrost. From what I hear the pairing is magical



That is probably the pairing that I will go for. Being able to upgrade the Bifrost is very attractive.


----------



## Shep Tx

preproman said:


> I suppose a lot of Mjolnirs will be for sale..



I'm definitely hoping for a great deal on one!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Ok so I have tried contacting Schiit about returning my Valhalla a couple times but haven't gotten any word back (going for a different amp). Would anyone be interested in Valhalla that was used for maybe 5 minutes?


----------



## hodgjy

I doubt some aspects of this post. 
   
  1) Jason responds extremely quickly to any and all emails.  I've contacted him several times about various things, and he literally replies within minutes.
   
  2) You used the amp for 5 minutes?  Really?  It barely warmed up and you can't form any sort of opinion about the amp after 5 minutes.  Your brain hasn't even adjusted to its sound signature.
   
  People need to be a little more honest about dumping their unwanted gear.
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Ok so I have tried contacting Schiit about returning my Valhalla a couple times but haven't gotten any word back (going for a different amp). Would anyone be interested in Valhalla that was used for maybe 5 minutes?


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I doubt some aspects of this post.
> 
> 1) Jason responds extremely quickly to any and all emails.  I've contacted him several times about various things, and he literally replies within minutes.
> 
> ...


 
   
  To be fair "only used it for about 5 minutes" tends to get used a lot as an expression, when something has been used for a negligible amount of time. Not justifying it and certainly not taking sides. Just playing Devil's advocate.


----------



## hodgjy

I understand that, and can appreciate your chiming in.  But when it comes to tube gear, up time is very important in the resale world.
   
  Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I've been burned by bad misinformation.  My definition of "mint" isn't the same as some sellers, for example.  "Light" use also differs in my mind.
  Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> To be fair "only used it for about 5 minutes" tends to get used a lot as an expression, when something has been used for a negligible amount of time. Not justifying it and certainly not taking sides. Just playing Devil's advocate.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Anyone have the Valhalla/AKG K702 95th Anniversary setup? I know it's not a 300 - 600 ohm headphone, but just wondering if anyone has or has tried the combo?
   
  And since I am posing that here, what about that same AKG and the DragonFly?


----------



## Tuco1965

I find it hard to believe the no response from Schiit too.  Every email I have sent them has been replied to very quickly.  Something is odd here.


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I understand that, and can appreciate your chiming in.  But when it comes to tube gear, up time is very important in the resale world.
> 
> Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I've been burned by bad misinformation.  My definition of "mint" isn't the same as some sellers, for example.  "Light" use also differs in my mind.


 
   
  Absolutely, I totally agree. I just thought that perhaps in this case, the post lacked thought, rather than being outright dishonest.


----------



## hodgjy

I agree with you.  If the OP just said the amp had 5 mins on it, I'd think it was just a poorly worded post or a generalization about light use.
   
  But, the OP clearly lists the Valhalla in his profile as his amp.  Then, he said Schiit has not responded. I find that extremely hard to believe that Schiit has not responded.  I've gotten responses from Schiit on Sunday evenings within minutes of my initial email.
   
  Something doesn't add up here.  I've been burned a few times on "mint" amps and "NOS" tubes that were definitely not accurate listings.  As such, I've been conditioned to be hypersensitive and skeptical of posts looking to unload gear as a "favor" to us.
   
  Quote: 





craftyclown said:


> Absolutely, I totally agree. I just thought that perhaps in this case, the post lacked thought, rather than being outright dishonest.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> *Ok so I have tried contacting Schiit about returning my Valhalla a couple times but haven't gotten any word back *(going for a different amp). Would anyone be interested in Valhalla that was used for maybe 5 minutes?


 
  That's the only thing suspect. Besides the fact that he's been banned and may not care about not burning other members of this community.
   
  Seems as if he was doing a little drinking last night. Now it makes sense. He never hit
  the send button per his email to Jason.


----------



## bearFNF

Ok, I need to chime in here.  I have emailed Jason a few times.  It did take some time for him to respond to a few of them.  He does have a life, I think..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  He did apologize once for taking some time, as he was neck deep in the Asgard 2 hum issue and another time with another release that was happening.  But the replies were not as quick as you guys are saying for those few.  Other times, yes, he responded very quickly.  Hell he might actually be on, dare I say it, _vacation_.  Not sure who would have unchained him, but it could have happened.
   
  The "5 minutes" I took as a  generalization, If someone is interested they should ask for accurate time on the gear.


----------



## hodgjy

Nevermind.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I doubt some aspects of this post.
> 
> 1) Jason responds extremely quickly to any and all emails.  I've contacted him several times about various things, and he literally replies within minutes.
> 
> ...


 
  1. Why would I lie? What is there to gain from lying?
   
  2. Since it is a tube amp I don't want to put too much time on the valves if I'm not keeping it.
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> That's the only thing suspect. Besides the fact that he's been banned and may not care about not burning other members of this community.
> 
> Seems as if he was doing a little drinking last night. Now it makes sense. He never hit
> the send button per his email to Jason.


 
  What is with you? why are you giving me such a hard time? Your attitude is uncalled for and is unappreciated. I've been unbanned for several months and you are the only person to bring it up since.
   
  It does appear that it is indeed past the 15 days though so there really isn't much point in arguing


----------



## CraftyClown

Come on guys, let's put this down to a misunderstanding. 
   
  Jay has been burnt before, so you can understand why he might have doubts. No one else really needed to stick their oars in.
   
  It's up to BlackenedPlague and whoever he sells his gear to be honest with one another
   
  Now let's all go back to being friends and hassling Jason about when the statement gear is coming.... SCHIIT! Did I say that out loud? that's another $50 then


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> What is with you? why are you giving me such a hard time? Your attitude is uncalled for and is unappreciated. I've been unbanned for several months and you are the only person to bring it up since.
> 
> It does appear that it is indeed past the 15 days though so there really isn't much point in arguing


 
  I was just pointing out it would be rather odd (though not impossible) that you contact Schiit multiples times without a reply. And yea, I also teased a bit, I'm sure you don't have a drinking problem.
   
  If you being banned is a sore issue for you then don't have it listed on your profile. I, for one, never said I'd never trade with you, so calm down.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I was just pointing out it would be rather odd (though not impossible) that you contact Schiit multiples times without a reply. And yea, I also teased a bit, I'm sure you don't have a drinking problem.
> 
> If you being banned is a sore issue for you then don't have it listed on your profile. I, for one, never said I'd never trade with you, so calm down.


 
   
  No harm no foul. Also it isn't a sore issue but then again maybe there isn't much of a point in having that stated...
   
  Also for what it's worth the amp in conjunction with sr60i's sounds bloody amazing


----------



## hodgjy

For the 5 minutes you used them together.  
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> No harm no foul. Also it isn't a sore issue but then again maybe there isn't much of a point in having that stated...
> 
> *Also for what it's worth the amp in conjunction with sr60i's sounds bloody amazing*


----------



## CraftyClown

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> For the 5 minutes you used them together.


 
   
  Jay!!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Newsflash: you send us an email on Friday night at 8PM, you may not get an answer until Monday. Normal companies are not open on weekends. Although we are abnormal, we hope to be cured someday.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

And you know what I'm a schiithead for complaining.


----------



## hodgjy

There it is.  The truth shall set you free.
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Ok so I have tried contacting Schiit about returning my Valhalla a couple times but haven't gotten any word back (going for a different amp). *Would anyone be interested in Valhalla that was used for maybe 5 minutes?*


 
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> 1. Why would I lie? What is there to gain from lying?
> 
> *2. Since it is a tube amp I don't want to put too much time on the valves if I'm not keeping it.*
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> No harm no foul. Also it isn't a sore issue but then again maybe there isn't much of a point in having that stated...
> 
> *Also for what it's worth the amp in conjunction with sr60i's sounds bloody amazing*


 
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Newsflash: you send us an email on Friday night at 8PM, you may not get an answer until Monday. Normal companies are not open on weekends. Although we are abnormal, we hope to be cured someday.


 
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> And you know what I'm a schiithead for complaining.


----------



## Wraith13

Going to upgrade my M&M deck and was looking for some recommendations (keeping the Magni and Modi, just going to be at work).  I was going to get the Woo Audio WA-7 mostly for aesthetics (it is a beautiful piece of gear) and for simplicity since it is an all in one, and a little bit because I wanted to give tubes a try.  Ditched that idea when I saw that the only input was USB and I really want to use S/PDIF (I'd like to free up a USB port on my Mac).
   
  I've already decided on the Bifrost DAC but which amp should I get?  Asgard2 seems to be the no brainer if I want an all around solid state champ, but I'm still intrigued by the idea of tubes.  I mostly listen to classic rock, jazz, and classical (minimum 320kbps AAC though I am rapidly expanding my lossless and HD library), and my main headphones are my HD650s (though that may change as well).  It is not an issue of cost.  Hell, I can get any of these options together for less than what I would have paid for the WA7 (yay, more money left over for headphones).
   
  I'm sure many of you have had this same dilemma and thought I would ask for some advice.  I have read a ton of reviews here and at other sources and a few comparisons but most of the comparisons have been between the tubes or the solid states (perhaps I missed a thread but it wasn't for lack of trying).  Are tubes too 'warm' for the HD650s?  Would it be a better match to have a brighter amp or should I go for the tubes and find a better headphone to match it?  Too many options and it is driving me nuts!  I really don't think I need the power of the Lyr (though it is probably the most versatile of the three) so it would really probably be just between the Asgard2 and Valhalla.
   
  Appreciate any advice.


----------



## TMRaven

Nothing's too warm for the HD650 to me.  I actually think they sound too dry out of an amp that's too dry-- not fun at all.


----------



## joebobbilly

As stated, the Asgard 2 seems more appropriate for an "all-rounder" and is the amp that just screams value. (I was gonna nab one of these, but the wait for a Canadian dealer to get some was just too long... and something better came along 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Sad to say, but IMHO Valhalla just doesn't seem to get as much love here (not no love... just simply not as much as A2 and Lyr) and they also seem a bit "cornered" for only high impedance cans.
   
  The Lyr would likely be more suitable if you're the kinda guy that likes the idea of tube-rolling and trying out different flavours that the tubes offer...  be warned though that this can get costly... friend of mine is already on the path 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The Lyr is also excellent for more power hungry orthos... so if you're ever thinking HE 500, LCD2... then perhaps this is the amp for you.
   
  Out of the three, I've only tried the Lyr and can safely say that they pair very well with the HD 650s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> There it is.  The truth shall set you free.


 
  What's the truth hodgjy?


----------



## hodgjy

That you used the amp more than you claim and you exceeded the 15 day return policy, so you're looking to dump the unwanted Valhalla here.  Not too hard to figure out.
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> What's the truth hodgjy?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> That you used the amp more than you claim and you exceeded the 15 day return policy, so you're looking to dump the unwanted Valhalla here.  Not too hard to figure out.


 
  actually I have only used it about 5 minutes, that's all truth. As for the 15 day policy it might have been during the time I was going through a personal problem that have no obligation to let go


----------



## Wraith13

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> As stated, the Asgard 2 seems more appropriate for an "all-rounder" and is the amp that just screams value. (I was gonna nab one of these, but the wait for a Canadian dealer to get some was just too long... and something better came along
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Tube-rolling... the term that strikes fear in the hearts of bank accounts and wives (only right behind, 'I want to find some nice music gear.').  I love the idea of tube-rolling but I'm wary of never being sure what is 'out there'.  It seems that tube powered amps are a way for audiophiles to punish themselves. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  I am surprised that there isn't more talk about the Valhalla as well.  That is part of the reason I am having so much trouble deciding.  It would seem to be an awesome amp and yet no one talks about it much.  Is that a hint or is it just stuck in the nether-world between the Asgard and Lyr (perhaps they should have named it Niflheim since it is kind of the Norse purgatory).
   
  I am looking at the LCD-2s (I mean who doesn't at some time, but I keep looking at them), and so it would seem that the Valhalla is out but the LCD-2s are a very tenuous maybe while my HD650s are a definite as well as some other dynamics that I'm looking at as well.  Man, while I love this 'hobby', it is frustrating sometimes.


----------



## tuna47

Go for the lyr game ending with good set of tubes


----------



## kothganesh

tuna47 said:


> Go for the lyr game ending with good set of tubes



Yep. I was afraid of the never ending process of tube rolling but I quickly settled on the Amperex Bugle Boys and to me, it looks like the end game.


----------



## CraftyClown

It doesn't have to be expensive at all. There is a great thread where there are loads of users who have already put a lot of time in tube rolling and you can easily find recommendations for great tubes, for whatever headphones you decide to pair up  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7695#post_9531219
   
  I haven't spent much money at all on tubes, but my 650s now sound amazing


----------



## Rem0o

People don't talk about the Valhalla because they are to busy listening to their music with it .


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





wraith13 said:


> Tube-rolling... the term that strikes fear in the hearts of bank accounts and wives (only right behind, 'I want to find some nice music gear.').  I love the idea of tube-rolling but I'm wary of never being sure what is 'out there'.  It seems that tube powered amps are a way for audiophiles to punish themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yea, the Valhalla's only real selling point is that it's OTL... but many others here have raved bout the (less expensive??) Crack OTL as a heavenly pairing with the HD 650s so you may want to consider that one if you're comfortable with DIY (I was curious but not confident in building skill and lacked the tools). 
   
  I have a friend who has the same LCD2 itch hahaha, it seems like a tenacious one that won't go away till its scratched 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So yea, I'd argue you might just wanna jump to the Lyr (since you seem committed to this wallet draining hobby by now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Only reason to avoid the Lyr is if you have sensitive IEMS or cans due to the noise floor. In which case go for the Asgard 2 (it has plenty juice to drive LCD2s) or bite the bullet and look for a good used Mojo/Gun deal (which we all suspect will show up a lot once the statements come out).


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> good used Mojo/Gun deal (which we all suspect will show up a lot once the statements come out).


 
   
  Can't wait to hear some bestial black metal on mojo/gun's and HE-500's huehuehuehue


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Can't wait to hear some bestial black metal on mojo/gun's and HE-500's huehuehuehue


 
  Promise to give it more than 5 minutes?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Promise to give it more than 5 minutes?


 

 5 minutes is like 3 or 4 Ramones songs! That's plenty of time.....


----------



## hodgjy

Bazinga!
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Promise to give it more than 5 minutes?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Promise to give it more than 5 minutes?


 
   
  Absotootinlootely


----------



## mhamel

craftyclown said:


> It doesn't have to be expensive at all. There is a great thread where there are loads of users who have already put a lot of time in tube rolling and you can easily find recommendations for great tubes, for whatever headphones you decide to pair up  http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/7695#post_9531219
> 
> 
> I haven't spent much money at all on tubes, but my 650s now sound amazing




This. 

Tube rolling with the Lyr does not have to be expensive at all. Just don't get caught up in the quest for must-have-ancient-unobtainium-tubes-of-the-gods and it can be inexpensive and fun. 

There are several types of tubes that will roll into the Lyr, sound great and not even come close to breaking the bank. 

I've been thinking about putting together a 'starter kit' for it, actually. A few sets of NOS inexpensive, but great sounding tubes, silicon dampers and a pair of socket savers. All tested/matched, bundled together at a reasonable price. I think it might help people new to tubes get their feet wet without having to dive too far in. 

 -Mike


----------



## Argo Duck

^ great idea.


----------



## justie

Lol...I logged on head-fi and noticed 40 new posts in this thread. First thought in my mind "ZOMG! New product info?!?!?!?!?!?"
   
  Haha, goes to show how desperately i am for more new amp news 
   
  PS: I technically didnt ASK for more info so the price should not go up by $50


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





rem0o said:


> People don't talk about the Valhalla because they are to busy listening to their music with it .


 
   
  That's better than any of the responses I was trying to come up with!


----------



## john777

joebobbilly said:


> Out of the three, I've only tried the Lyr and can safely say that they pair very well with the HD 650s  .




The Lyr also pairs very well with the HD600s, but I upgraded to HE-500s.


----------



## john777

craftyclown said:


> I haven't spent much money at all on tubes, but my 650s now sound amazing




I didn't spend any money. I already had a matched pair of Siemens E288CC tubes from an AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player. My HE-500s sound spectacular!


----------



## smellyfungus

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> This.
> 
> Tube rolling with the Lyr does not have to be expensive at all. Just don't get caught up in the quest for must-have-ancient-unobtainium-tubes-of-the-gods and it can be inexpensive and fun.
> 
> ...


 
  i actually have one for sale but no ones messaged me yet on it. don't post one til mine sells first lol.


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





john777 said:


> The Lyr also pairs very well with the HD600s, but I upgraded to HE-500s.


 
  It pairs very well with the HD600s.  I've been enjoying mine for a while now.


----------



## Overwerk

hmm, honestly, i don't see much difference with hd600 and hd650 driven by lyr, maybe i am just deaf


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





wraith13 said:


> Tube-rolling... the term that strikes fear in the hearts of bank accounts and wives (only right behind, 'I want to find some nice music gear.').  I love the idea of tube-rolling but I'm wary of never being sure what is 'out there'.  It seems that tube powered amps are a way for audiophiles to punish themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  hahaha yeah man i got the Lyr/Bifrost combo recently, and I got the HD650s. these sound phenomenal! I too have the LCD-2 itch (I've been eyeing them for some time now, ever since a head-fi meet recently), but I'm also now debating for a HE-500, just to complement my HD650s, instead of simply upgrading them to the LCD-2. maybe finish off with the ortho pair, LCD-2 AND HE500... since the HD800 is too out of reach...oh my wallet...


----------



## MattTCG

Be careful with the lcd2 itch. In terms of weight and comfort, it's like going from a baseball cap to a football helmet...no joke. It won't be just like that for everyone but it was a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Wraith13

Fortunately I found a store in the area that actually carries the LCD-2 so hopefully they will have a demo unit that I can try out.  There is no way in hell that I am going to drop that kind of money on a headphone without trying them first.  That is what kept me from buying some high end Grados, since I couldn't stand the feel of them when I tried them out.


----------



## kothganesh

I bought the LCDs and then started neck strengthening exercises 


matttcg said:


> Be careful with the lcd2 itch. In terms of weight and comfort, it's like going from a baseball cap to a football helmet...no joke. It won't be just like that for everyone but it was a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Be careful with the lcd2 itch. In terms of weight and comfort, it's like going from a baseball cap to a football helmet...no joke. It won't be just like that for everyone but it was a deal breaker for me.


 
   
  Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> I bought the LCDs and then started neck strengthening exercises


 
  Yep. I cannot wear mine for longer than about an hour. I'm likely switching to the HD800s which are totally comfortable.


----------



## Llloyd

I don't get it. Maybe I have a strong neck haha. I never had a problem wearing my HE-500s since the day I got them. I was probably wearing them for around 10 hours a day during the weekends during that time.


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Be careful with the lcd2 itch. In terms of weight and comfort, it's like going from a baseball cap to a football helmet...no joke. It won't be just like that for everyone but it was a deal breaker for me.


 
  oh definitely, any orthos are heavy. I tried both of them at a meet (LCD-2 and HE500) and I didn't find the clamp or weight too bothersome (I have a small head) while my friend who has a significantly larger head just could not stand the clamp. However, I only had them on for a song or two, so I can't say too much about long term fatigue... man I gotta try them again.


----------



## john777

I don't have a problem with weight, clamping pressure or anything else with my HE-500s.


----------



## bearFNF

I had to re-bend the band on my HE500 to fit my head, the clamp was painful, and yes, they are heavy, but didn't bother me after hours of listening. However, I do like my HD800's comfort much better.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Got my Valhalla today! Haven't settled on my headphones yet.  May pickup a pair of second hand DT990 600 ohm (I'd love to find some DT880  600ohm) to hold me over till I really know what I want.  I was sure it was going to be HD650 or HD700, now I am not so sure. 
   
  Using the Dragon Fly as a DAC and the SR80i to listen right now, doesn't sound horrible....
   
  2 questions:
   
  Will the Sennheiser Momentum do any damage(18 ohm) to the amp if I try them out?  I realize they may not be ideal, but they should sound better than the SR80i.
   
  Also, as far as the tubes go I have one that has a REALLY brightly glowing element at the top,is that normal? It is one of the preamp tubes and it is OBVIOUSLY burning brighter that all of the others.  Anything to be concerned with?  I haven't owned any tube gear (except guitar amps) in about 15 years!
   
  Any headphone recommendations are welcome!
   
  Thanks,


----------



## gefski

Valhalla specifies 32 to 600 ohm cans, so that's a bit low. In fact the output impedance of Valhalla is higher (25) than the Senn input at 18, so that doesn't sound like even a temporary plan to me. 

With tube speaker amps around the house for years, I'm used to seeing different "glows", for example with four (matched and perfectly biased) power tubes. But I've noticed that it's sometimes the result of the tube sockets "facing" different tubes in different directions. So if I look from a different angle, the glow changes. You could swap the 6n1p left/right and see how it looks. If you still don't like it you can email Schiit.

Enjoy!


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Valhalla specifies 32 to 600 ohm cans, so that's a bit low. In fact the output impedance of Valhalla is higher (25) than the Senn input at 18, so that doesn't sound like even a temporary plan to me.
> 
> With tube speaker amps around the house for years, I'm used to seeing different "glows", for example with four (matched and perfectly biased) power tubes. But I've noticed that it's sometimes the result of the tube sockets "facing" different tubes in different directions. So if I look from a different angle, the glow changes. You could swap the 6n1p left/right and see how it looks. If you still don't like it you can email Schiit.
> 
> Enjoy!


 

 Yes, I tried looking at different angles and I did swap the tube earlier and the same(same filament, same tube) result, just not sure if it's anything to worry about or not?
   
  The SR80i are sounding pretty damn good! But as per usual my ears are killing me! 
   
  Anyone with DT880 or DT990 600 ohms care to chime in on how they sound with the Valhalla?


----------



## ab initio

I have a Magni/Modi combo and recently got the PYST because the giant knot 6' RCA interconnects were driving me nuts. The PYST are a great improvement, but I recently found these on amazon:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Male-Male-Preamp-Jumpers-2/dp/B0006VMBGO/ref=pd_sim_e_4
   
  These are even more compact that the PYST, but I was wondering if they are _too_ compact to work with Magni/Modi? Personally, I cringe thinking about spending $30 on 3 inch cables, but space on my desk is at a premium and the heft of the PYSTs make them take up a lot more real estate that 6" cables ought to.
   
  Anybody know if these ultra-compact jumpers would work with Magni/Modi without undue stress on the rca jacks or preventing them from stacking nicely? Any alternatives?
   
  Cheers


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea I got my K702 Annies from razordog. If I had known bout them earlier, I would have gotten my HD 650s from them too.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> I have a Magni/Modi combo and recently got the PYST because the giant knot 6' RCA interconnects were driving me nuts. The PYST are a great improvement, but I recently found these on amazon:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Male-Male-Preamp-Jumpers-2/dp/B0006VMBGO/ref=pd_sim_e_4
> 
> ...


 
  honestly, don't get anything in themiddle, either get very long, or very short, but you have to make a bet when you buy short ones, they can be too short or a bit long thus making the magni going all directionos(cus it's too light) I tried pyst, a bit too long so magni nods downwards. that cable you see there looks like it will jerk magni facing the ceiling. just get a 3 feet cable and have them sit at the back to be safe.......


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> honestly, don't get anything in themiddle, either get very long, or very short, but you have to make a bet when you buy short ones, they can be too short or a bit long thus making the magni going all directionos(cus it's too light) I tried pyst, a bit too long so magni nods downwards. that cable you see there looks like it will jerk magni facing the ceiling. just get a 3 feet cable and have them sit at the back to be safe.......


 
   
  Putting rubber bands around the connectors of the PYST cables should help. This is what Schiit themselves do here:


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> ...that cable you see there looks like it will jerk magni facing the ceiling. just get a 3 feet cable and have them sit at the back to be safe.......


 
  That's exactly what I'm worried about. Also, it was the 3 foot cable I had before that made me get the PYST in the first place because it was just an eyesore, tanglemess.
   
   
  Quote: 





mediahound said:


> Putting rubber bands around the connectors of the PYST cables should help. This is what Schiit themselves do here:
> 
> ...


 
  I've seen that before, but my PYST cables work just find without the rubber bands---the stack sits normally. The "problem" I am having is that the PYST cables stick straight back (clearly seen in the video), which effectively doubles the depth of the footprint that the stack takes up on my desk. Anybody come up with a clever solution for this?
   
  Also, I love Mike Moffat's attitude in the video: "It's fun and cheap---Either get it or don't, I don't give a schiit" Awesome.
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Overwerk

well get a shelf man.-.-


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





wraith13 said:


> Fortunately I found a store in the area that actually carries the LCD-2 so hopefully they will have a demo unit that I can try out.  There is no way in hell that I am going to drop that kind of money on a headphone without trying them first.  That is what kept me from buying some high end Grados, since I couldn't stand the feel of them when I tried them out.


 
  I demo'ed my LCD-2s from thecableco before I ended up buying them. You have to put down a deposit and pay for shipping, but when you go to buy something you can put that deposit towards the price, and the shipping on the product will be free. Well worth it to try it out for 2 weeks in your own home, imo.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Could someone blind test the monoprice rca cables and the PYST cables please? I'm actually considering the PYST cables but would like to know if it would improve clarity or if it is just the satisfaction that my money is going to a quality US company.


----------



## hodgjy

I have listened to $2 Radio Shack cables to uber expensive, cryo-treated with frozen unicorn tears cables, and I've never heard a difference in any of them.  Just buy a solid set of cables that will withstand years of bends, twists, and being connected and unconnected frequently.
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Could someone blind test the monoprice rca cables and the PYST cables please? I'm actually considering the PYST cables but would like to know if it would improve clarity or if it is just the satisfaction that my money is going to a quality US company.


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have listened to $2 Radio Shack cables to uber expensive, cryo-treated with frozen unicorn tears cables, and I've never heard a difference in any of them.  Just buy a solid set of cables that will withstand years of bends, twists, and being connected and unconnected frequently.


 
  Truth.  That's why I went with the Blue Jeans LC-1.  I know that it is giving a great electric signal (and thus doing no harm), but I also know that it's tough as hell.  It's the ol' "buy right or buy twice" thing.  Plus, I really believe in what they're doing and like to support them since their prices are fair.


----------



## Gerzom

Quick question, is the Uber Analog upgrade also available for the Gungnir or just for Bifrost? My Gungnir arives tomorrow


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





gerzom said:


> Quick question, is the Uber Analog upgrade also available for the Gungnir or just for Bifrost? My Gungnir arives tomorrow


 
   
  Sadly, only for Biftrost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I'm eagerly waiting for them to announce one for Gungnir


----------



## Gerzom

joebobbilly said:


> Sadly, only for Biftrost :rolleyes: . I'm eagerly waiting for them to announce one for Gungnir



Thats what I thought. Just read on a dutch forum somebody adding 2 uber analog boards to his Gungnir, but isn't that replacing them with the same boards?I thought the Bifrost uber upgrade is a board from the Gungnir?


----------



## g33klunch

Just a quick post:
   
   
  On Schiit's site:
   
  "Bifrost Uber: Even More Impressive Performance
  Order the Bifrost Uber option, and you get a discrete analog stage based on the more advanced Gungnir DAC, with a sophisticated topology that improves sonic and measured performance, and a DC servo to eliminate capacitors in the signal path. Not that the base Bifrost is any slouch—it’s frequently been compared to DACs that cost 3-8x as much."
   
  Looks like you'll already have it in the Gungnir! Let us know how it sounds. I have the Bifrost Uber and I love it..


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have listened to $2 Radio Shack cables to uber expensive, cryo-treated with frozen unicorn tears cables, and I've never heard a difference in any of them.  Just buy a solid set of cables that will withstand years of bends, twists, and being connected and unconnected frequently.


 
   
  Cables are like anything in HiFi, you either hear it or you don't.  Some people think all amps sound the same.  I have some expensive cables, I hear different shades and signatures, it's worth it to me.  I believe every little thing in the chain is important and it is all cumulative. In my opinion every little tweak counts!


----------



## Mediahound

While the differences are quite subtle, I do notice a difference with the Blue Jeans LC-1 RCA interconnects. Everything sounds a bit more discreet and less muddled with them when compared with monoprice RCAs. YMMV.


----------



## dougiefresh67

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S39864780/
   
  Product dimensions
  Width: 46 7/8 "
 Depth: 11 "
   
  I got one and there's plenty of space for my Schiit Stack with Pyst cables a PC and a printer. Bonus, a 1" gap to drop cords down between the shelf and the wall.
   
  Just helping


----------



## dougiefresh67

Like to say, had my Schiit fired up all day and the old complaints about the units running hot are dead IMHO. I'm a ***** and I can stick my hands all over  these things with no problems. My Asgard 2 is pretty tame in the heat dept. but funny thing is the Bifrost is running the same temp approximately, to the touch. But, both are no sweat at this point. If I tossed you one or the other by surprise you'd flinch and then start smiling cause it ain't hot.


----------



## ninexnine

I just wish I would receive my Asgard 2, it has been on back order for going onto the third week.  Maybe no hum transformers are hard to find.
   





Tears soon!


----------



## MattTCG

Hang in there!! It's worth the wait.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





ninexnine said:


> I just wish I would receive my Asgard 2, it has been on back order for going onto the third week.  Maybe no hum transformers are hard to find.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was told another week or 2 the other day.


----------



## NevilleM

Cables: Hi-Fi News in the UK did a panel listen to USB cables last month. They were surprised by the size of the audible differences when feeding a MF M1 S-DAC from a laptop. 
Chord silver plus topped the sensible priced.
Lower deterministic jitter and faster data edge risetimes lead to the panel using words such as spacious, smoother, crisper, delicacy, bass weight.


----------



## jexby

Quote: 





nevillem said:


> Cables: Hi-Fi News in the UK did a panel listen to USB cables last month. They were surprised by the size of the audible differences when feeding a MF M1 S-DAC from a laptop.
> Chord silver plus topped the sensible priced.
> Lower deterministic jitter and faster data edge risetimes lead to the panel using words such as spacious, smoother, crisper, delicacy, bass weight.


 
   
  Really?
  a <insert country name here> Audiologist Panel found audible differences (for the better) when using cables manufactured in <insert same country here>!
  amazing news.   
   
  I'm not saying cables don't make some difference, but their (blind?) selection of a fellow countrymen's cables is not quite... ahem surprising.
  YMMV.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





nevillem said:


> Cables: Hi-Fi News in the UK did a panel listen to USB cables last month. They were surprised by the size of the audible differences when feeding a MF M1 S-DAC from a laptop.
> Chord silver plus topped the sensible priced.
> Lower deterministic jitter and faster data edge risetimes lead to the panel using words such as spacious, smoother, crisper, delicacy, bass weight.


 
  I mean this is totally off topic, but I agree. USB cables can make a difference. Going from a stock printer USB cable to a Audioquest Forest made a difference for me. And no... it wasn't subtle. It was so obvious I only had to A/B back and forth to satisfy the little scientist inside me. Now will it  make a huge difference if I go from my $30 USB to a $3000 USB? Don't know, never tried that.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I mean this is totally off topic, but I agree. USB cables can make a difference. Going from a stock printer USB cable to a Audioquest Forest made a difference for me. And no... it wasn't subtle. It was so obvious I only had to A/B back and forth to satisfy the little scientist inside me. Now will it  make a huge difference if I go from my $30 USB to a $3000 USB? Don't know, never tried that.


 

 Hook the AQ cable up to your printer and see how much better the stuff you print looks!


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I mean this is totally off topic, but I agree. USB cables can make a difference. Going from a stock printer USB cable to a Audioquest Forest made a difference for me. And no... it wasn't subtle. It was so obvious I only had to A/B back and forth to satisfy the little scientist inside me. Now will it  make a huge difference if I go from my $30 USB to a $3000 USB? Don't know, never tried that.


 

 You should do at least 3 of each to be sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Then scan them and post here to share!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Would seriously love to see if there is indeed a difference.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Hook the AQ cable up to your printer and see how much better the stuff you print looks!


 
   
  Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> You should do at least 3 of each to be sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL
   
  Guys... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know I know. Digital is digital 0s and 1s right? When I dug deeper and did some research and found there are two USB protocals. One for bulk transfer which is for printing jobs that double checks all data/jobs to make sure all data is fine and then there is isochronous transfer, which is streaming crap in real time, and because it's streaming in real time their isn't enough time to correct small errors, no time to send data back to the host to double check. This of course isn't even getting into jitter (timing errors for the 0 and 1s) not to mention other artifacts that creep up while doing digital to analog conversion, which is just a interpolation (best guessing by the D/A chip of where the 0s and 1s are supposed to go to begin with)
   
  Now.... if this sounds like BS and you don't want to look into it further that's fine, but I wanted to look into the matter further and found a lot of interesting things. I'm a big science guy and a skeptic, but these USB cable nutters do have some compelling arguements if you care to look. Now spending $30 on a USB cable isn't the end of the world, hell most places have a return policy and so you lose nothing.
   
  As for crispier texts... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 see my profile
   
  BTW. If you have a Best Buy near by. Go and pick up a Audioquest USB cable. They have a 30 day return policy no questions asked. Try it for like 10 minutes and tell me you hear no difference from your printer USB cable. If you hear no difference I guess lucky you and unlukcy me becuase I do and so I have to spend $30 to make myself happy.
   
  In a similar vein. You guys must try this program called Fidelizer (I know dorky name), but it's free and it works. It'll slow down your computer massively (temporarily) but you'll hear a boost in your DAC quality. It's free and no I didn't build it or anything.


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> LOL
> 
> Guys...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Also, separating the power wires from the signal wires is something audio USB cables do and I believe they have thicker power wires inside than standard printer cables. At any rate, Schiit uses the Straight Wire USB Link cable for their PYST USB. I use one and trust it but wouldn't really spend more on anything fancier.


----------



## jmsaxon69

I own the Chord Silver USB that was mentioned in a previous post.  I'm just funny as all hell....just ask me


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I own the Chord Silver USB that was mentioned in a previous post.  I'm just funny as all hell....just ask me


 
  OMG. I'm going to trace your IP address and come hit you over the head with my AudioQuest USB cable. Beware and be very afraid...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> OMG. I'm going to trace your IP address and come hit you over the head with my AudioQuest USB cable. Beware and be very afraid...


 

 Haha! Unfortunately I won't be able to hear you coming with headphones on....


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  Just wanted to thank you for a wonderful three years. Our actual anniversary (June 15) slipped past me, but I thought you might appreciate me digging this up, started almost exactly 3 years ago to this day:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/497902/schiit-asgard-unboxing-and-first-impressions
   


> I've only just started listening to the Schiit Asgard, and will definitely listen to it more before posting much in the way of sonic impressions.  I will say this, though:  if Jason is telling it like it is--if they can really make a viable business of USA-made amps at these price points--there will be some nervous desktop headphone amp makers out there, in the U.S., in China, and everywhere else.  Jason and Mike Moffatt (the other Schiit founder) have audio design chops, beyond any question, Jason formerly with Sumo, and Mike formerly with Theta.  Many key designs and products from each of those companies (Sumo and Theta) came from the minds and hands of these guys.  That they're now dedicated to developing and selling headphone amps at these price points (the Valhalla is expected to release at $349.00) is, to me (and I'm sure to many of you), very very interesting.


 
   
  Yes, that's the first Asgard. Or one of the first 100 or so that we made. Back then, we had no idea if this was going to be a viable business, or if we'd be giving headphone amps away to our friends for the next 10 Christmases. And, after the first excitement had died down, some started calling us "just a flavor of the month." But then there was Valhalla. And Lyr. And Bifrost. And Mjolnir. And Gungnir. And then, surprise, Magni and Modi. And, finally, Asgard 2.
   
  So, I guess we've been "Flavor of the Month" for three years now. Not bad, huh?
   
  What I can say is that we couldn't have done it without your support, for which we are eternally grateful. We're going to keep innovating, manufacturing in the USA, keeping prices as low as they possibly can be (believe it or not, I've had a ton of feedback on the Ragnarok and Yggdrasil announcement saying, "Why can't you make these _more_ expensive?" They seem disappointed when I tell them we don't know how to make a more expensive amp or DAC.
   
  But the best is yet to come. Not just Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, but a couple more products you should see by the end of the year that are squarely in the "ultra affordable" category. And then, in 2014...ah, I'll shut up now. I've learned that lesson.
   
  Stay tuned...and thanks again!
   
  All the best,
   
  Jason Stoddard
  Co-Founder
  Schiit Audio


----------



## MattTCG

I'm a proud owner of several Schiit products. Most recently the A2 and bifrost über. Great products! Looking forward to what is on the horizon. 

Continued success. 

Matt


----------



## azteca x

First off, 'nuff respect to a company making this stuff in America, selling for extremely fair prices, avoiding snake oil, being very responsive and actually interacting with customers AND continuing to innovate, improve, and add value for customers new and old.  Cheers!
   
  Quote:


jason stoddard said:


> a couple more products you should see by the end of the year that are squarely in the "ultra affordable" category. And then, in 2014...ah, I'll shut up now. I've learned that lesson.


 
  Oh yesssss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Can't wait!  Ultra affordable sounds nice.  I've been slowly building my girlfriend's interest in good sound.  And my little brother could use something too.


----------



## hodgjy

Awesome!  Congrats.
   
  But...should we make the rule that every time Jason mentions the statement gear, the price goes down $50?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> But the best is yet to come. Not just Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, but a couple more products you should see by the end of the year that are squarely in the "ultra affordable" category. And then, in 2014...ah, I'll shut up now. I've learned that lesson.


----------



## Schokolade bar

A few months ago I sold my gaming desktop to buy the Lyr and Bifrost, and it was probably the best decision I have made, I think the Lyr is my ideal desktop amp, and pairs nicely with the AKG k702 as well has the HD 650.


----------



## Mediahound

Cool, me and Schiit have the same birthday, June 15. 

I should get a free product or something.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Good call. Prices on gaming desktop go down pretty quickly. The Schiit stack will hold it's value well.


----------



## john777

hodgjy said:


> Awesome!  Congrats.
> 
> But...should we make the rule that every time Jason mentions the statement gear, the price goes down $50?




Sounds like a good place to start!

Congrats to Jason and all at Schiit. I am UK based and had never heard of Schiit until I bought a new amplifier with no headphone output. I had a Lyr on trial against the HiFiMan EF-5 and the Lyr won. Now powering my HE-500s.


----------



## NevilleM

Belated happy 3rd birthday.
That statement case sounds tall enough to fit a few hard drives for the music server to match the rest of the schiit stack. Schiitbox Buri?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> I've had a ton of feedback on the Ragnarok and Yggdrasil announcement saying, *"Why can't you make these more expensive?"*


 
   
  Who in their right mind would say such a thing?


----------



## cthalupa

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just wanted to thank you for a wonderful three years. Our actual anniversary (June 15) slipped past me, but I thought you might appreciate me digging this up, started almost exactly 3 years ago to this day:
> 
> ...


 
  Who *are* these people?
   
  Ah well - as the owner of a Lyr and Bifrost (Newly upgraded to Uber! status), thanks for making great products. They sound great, they look great, and they're a joy to use. I think I'm going to start saving for the statement gear...
   
  Here's to looking forward to the next three years of great products, and everything after that!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Awesome!  Congrats.
> 
> But...should we make the rule that every time Jason mentions the statement gear, the price goes down $50?


 
  Deal. That offsets the inquiry I had the other day asking for more info...


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Deal. That offsets the inquiry I had the other day asking for more info...


 
  Oh gosh please don't, I'm positive he gets waaaay more inquires bout the statement than his own comments on it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hmmmm "ultra affordable" eh? does that hint at "ultra portable"???
  Honestly, what could be more ultra affordable than magni and modi??? @ 1bill each it's a steal really.
   
  I'm hoping more for uber upgrades for gungnir


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> But the best is yet to come. Not just Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, but a couple more products you should see by the end of the year that are squarely in the "ultra affordable" category. And then, in 2014...ah, I'll shut up now. I've learned that lesson.


 
   
   
  It's like he's carefully baiting and trolling us at the same time...


----------



## hodgjy

Because some people define their self-worth and enjoyment based on how much they spend on things as a status symbol.  Schiit owners don't talk too much about price....we say how much we enjoy listening to the music through the gear.  In contrast, in the Summit-Fi forum, people like to brag their home systems cost $XX,000 dollars, while neglecting to say how much they love the music.
   
  Schiit is downright American.  Hardworking, down to earth, no frills, just good ol' music loving people.  Good ol' baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Schiit.
   
  Of course, this is a generalization, but you get my point.
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> What I can say is that we couldn't have done it without your support, for which we are eternally grateful. We're going to keep innovating, manufacturing in the USA, keeping prices as low as they possibly can be (believe it or not, I've had a ton of feedback on the Ragnarok and Yggdrasil announcement saying, *"Why can't you make these more expensive?" They seem disappointed when I tell them we don't know how to make a more expensive amp or DAC.*


 
   
  Quote: 





preproman said:


> Who in their right mind would say such a thing?


----------



## M-13

Congrats on 3 years Jason!
   
  I remember when you guys first launched. I was just lurking around back then. Never change your ways and keep up the good work. I can almost sense you want to tell us really badly about upcoming products. I wish you could without all the drama/uproar this place causes. As for those nutters who want you to raise prices on the statement products... I've got some very inapproriate words floating round my head. I think the price point of the statement products are near perfect and would ask you to make them even cheaper if possible. You'll probably sell more units to make up the cost, but I'm sure you know your business better than me.


----------



## Gerzom

I hooked up my Gungnir for the first time last night and had a quick listen this morning, and wow what difference with the Bifrost. It all sounds bigger, fuller and more mature. And this is listning fresh out of the box with newish cables. Now go for a the long break in period of this Schiit. 

I'm one happy camper


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





> *"Why can't you make these more expensive?" They seem disappointed when I tell them we don't know how to make a more expensive amp or DAC.*


 
  I have a great idea, why not make a "Limited Edition" set for this dude, like autograph them or something.  Charge him $50K and then cut the price for us poor folks...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh, yeah and "HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!"


----------



## Tuco1965

Happy belated birthday Schiit Audio!  Well done 3 years!


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> But the best is yet to come. Not just Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, but a couple more products you should see by the end of the year that are squarely in the "ultra affordable" category. And then, in 2014...ah, I'll shut up now. I've learned that lesson.
> 
> Jason Stoddard
> Co-Founder
> Schiit Audio


 
   
  I will spring for a single ended version of Ragnarok: a more compact, desktop version.


----------



## hodgjy

I believe that's called the Asgard 2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





zackzack said:


> I will spring for a single ended version of Ragnarok: a more compact, desktop version.


----------



## ilikepooters

I wouldn't mind a Lyr with black annodised finish and a blue LED instead of that horrible bright white thing.
   
  Guess i may have to do it myself


----------



## gefski

I use a small punch to make little dots from colored electrical tape to go over the lights, then I get a softer pinpoint of light in whatever color I want. 

I've settled on a red dot sounding best with Valhalla, while the Bifrost benefits (especially in the low bass) from green on the USB light or blue on SPDIF.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Because some people define their self-worth and enjoyment based on how much they spend on things as a status symbol.  Schiit owners don't talk too much about price....we say how much we enjoy listening to the music through the gear.  In contrast, in the Summit-Fi forum, people like to brag their home systems cost $XX,000 dollars, while neglecting to say how much they love the music.
> 
> Schiit is downright American.  Hardworking, down to earth, no frills, just good ol' music loving people.  Good ol' baseball, hotdogs, apple pie, and Schiit.
> 
> Of course, this is a generalization, but you get my point.


 
  when you put labels you make things dumb, unquote, by whoever


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Congrats on 3 years Jason!
> 
> I remember when you guys first launched. I was just lurking around back then. Never change your ways and keep up the good work. I can almost sense you want to tell us really badly about upcoming products. I wish you could without all the drama/uproar this place causes. As for those nutters who want you to raise prices on the statement products... I've got some very inapproriate words floating round my head. I think the price point of the statement products are near perfect and would ask you to make them even cheaper if possible. You'll probably sell more units to make up the cost, but I'm sure you know your business better than me.


 
  exactly what I was about to say


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just wanted to thank you for a wonderful three years. Our actual anniversary (June 15) slipped past me, but I thought you might appreciate me digging this up, started almost exactly 3 years ago to this day:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well Jason, your schiit don't stink!
   
   
  Quote:


> What I can say is that we couldn't have done it without your support, for which we are eternally grateful. We're going to keep innovating, manufacturing in the USA, keeping prices as low as they possibly can be (believe it or not, I've had a ton of feedback on the Ragnarok and Yggdrasil announcement saying, "Why can't you make these _more_ expensive?" They seem disappointed when I tell them we don't know how to make a more expensive amp or DAC.


 
  This is an easy one, and I'm surprised you smart guys haven't figured this out yet. The insides should be hand wired on turret board using only the finest 99.999999314159265359% pure silver wire!
   
   
  But seriously, I really enjoy my Magni+Modi combo and I look forward to seeing the new creations you guys come up with in the future!
   
  Cheers!


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I have listened to $2 Radio Shack cables to uber expensive, cryo-treated with frozen unicorn tears cables, and I've never heard a difference in any of them.  Just buy a solid set of cables that will withstand years of bends, twists, and being connected and unconnected frequently.


 
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Could someone blind test the monoprice rca cables and the PYST cables please? I'm actually considering the PYST cables but would like to know if it would improve clarity or if it is just the satisfaction that my money is going to a quality US company.


 
   
  I made the mistake of buying a set of monoprice RCA cables to connect my Magni & Modi. The amount of force necessary to push those buggers on, scared the Schiit out of me. I was truly afraid I would break something, they were that tight.
   
  So. Yeah. You get what you pay for. Never again will I buy Monoprice cables.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Just wanted to thank you for a wonderful three years. Our actual anniversary (June 15) slipped past me, but I thought you might appreciate me digging this up, started almost exactly 3 years ago to this day:
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Your post makes absolutely no sense at all and is quite the incoherent babbling.  I stand by what I wrote, despite your attempt to troll, because I did use the modifiers, "some" and "generalization."
   
  Quote: 





overwerk said:


> when you put labels you make things dumb, unquote, by whoever


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> This is an easy one, and I'm surprised you smart guys haven't figured this out yet. The insides should be hand wired on turret board using only the finest 99.999999314159265359% pure silver wire!


 
   
  Er, I guess I should say, "We don't know how to make them more expensive, without getting into things like milling the chassis from a block of solid copper, using Teflon PCBs with silver traces (don't laugh, I once did a 4 x 6" Teflon PCB for Theta Digital with 280 components--not surface-mount--on it), custom binding posts hand-carved by Tibetan monks from solid gold, styling that looks like a model of the city in Metropolis, ten thousand product variations with different, higher-end or lower-end pots, components, tubes, etc, etc, or a dealer network."


----------



## HeyWaj10

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Er, I guess I should say, "We don't know how to make them more expensive, without getting into things like milling the chassis from a block of solid copper, using Teflon PCBs with silver traces (don't laugh, I once did a 4 x 6" Teflon PCB for Theta Digital with 280 components--not surface-mount--on it), custom binding posts hand-carved by Tibetan monks from solid gold, styling that looks like a model of the city in Metropolis, ten thousand product variations with different, higher-end or lower-end pots, components, tubes, etc, etc, or a dealer network."


 
   
  .....I think you're onto something there, Jason!


----------



## TMRaven

I've always wanted to know why external DACs on windows don't override windows' internal volume control, while on OSX they do?  HRT Music Steamer II, ODAC and the Modi all still allow windows volume control to be used, while on OSX they wouldn't allow you to mess with the volume.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Er, I guess I should say, "We don't know how to make them more expensive, without getting into things like milling the chassis from a block of solid copper, using Teflon PCBs with silver traces (don't laugh, I once did a 4 x 6" Teflon PCB for Theta Digital with 280 components--not surface-mount--on it), custom binding posts hand-carved by Tibetan monks from solid gold, styling that looks like a model of the city in Metropolis, ten thousand product variations with different, higher-end or lower-end pots, components, tubes, etc, etc, or a dealer network."


 

 So when is that coming out? Here is my $50.....


----------



## zackzack

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> I believe that's called the Asgard 2.


 
  A single ended amp that can run a pair of bookshelf speakers, what I meant


----------



## Overwerk

Congrats too for anniversary. Lucky for those that were there at the very start.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Your post makes absolutely no sense at all and is quite the incoherent babbling.  I stand by what I wrote, despite your attempt to troll, because I did use the modifiers, "some" and "generalization."


 
   
  there we go again with the trolls calling others trolling. just because you are the thread starter does not grant you unequal human rights to directly insult others with words like " absolutely no sense at all" "quite the incoherent babbling" "your attempt to troll"
   
  look at your original post, you are over glorifying the truth, I appreciate your support of Schiit, but it's not worth it like I explained but oh wait you wouldn't know, because you take it as trolling.
   
  your modifiers applies to your comment about americans, I was talking about your general over the top assumptions about Schiit.
   
  While you try to make it sound like they are down to earth, you do it in a very elaborate manner, defeating your own purpose.
   
  and If you still take me as hostile, let me remind you one and only one time that I was trying to help because I sense you derailed on your good intent. Oh, and does owning lyr+bifrost Magni modi tells you something about where I stand?


----------



## hodgjy

My comments were certainly not over the top.  Look at the Schiit FAQ.  They proudly say their components are made in the USA.  They boldly say they are an American company supporting Americans.  
   
  Also, despite their Norse god nomenclature, their products are quite spartan.  No added fluff to drive the prices up, especially the chassis designs.  The buyers of Schiit are paying for the components that actually have an effect on sound.  
   
  Efficient.  Innovative.  Proud.  Self-starting small businesses.  That's something we hear a whole lot about during election season.  You know, the American way.
   
  I don't know why you took exception to my post about Schiit.  This is a Schiit fan thread after all.
   
  Quote: 





overwerk said:


> your modifiers applies to your comment about americans, I was talking about your general over the top assumptions about Schiit.


----------



## Overwerk

mkay fair enough


----------



## hodgjy

Ok, let's shake hands and make up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





overwerk said:


> mkay fair enough


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I've always wanted to know why external DACs on windows don't override windows' internal volume control, while on OSX they do?  HRT Music Steamer II, ODAC and the Modi all still allow windows volume control to be used, while on OSX they wouldn't allow you to mess with the volume.


 

 When you connect Modi, the Windows volume automatically goes to 100%, that's good enough I guess. You could manually adjust it, but would would you


----------



## Armaegis

I don't need to fancy schmancy teflon silver pcbs, but where's my solid wood and leather bound special edition chassis?


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> When you connect Modi, the Windows volume automatically goes to 100%, that's good enough I guess. You could manually adjust it, but would would you


 
  really? didn't notice that, but windows volume maxing does't reallymatter-.-


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> When you connect Modi, the Windows volume automatically goes to 100%, that's good enough I guess. You could manually adjust it, but would would you


 
  Mac's lock the slider because audio professionals dont want the computer software to "touch the sound" and lose quality. Dropping bits, dithering, etc.
   
  This is by design for audio pros, us computer audiophiles also reap the benefits.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> I don't need to fancy schmancy teflon silver pcbs, but where's my solid wood and leather bound special edition chassis?


 

 Leather and wood don't exactly dissipate heat very well.....Those cool looking aluminum chassis are part of the heat sink design I'm pretty sure.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Leather and wood don't exactly dissipate heat very well.....Those cool looking aluminum chassis are part of the heat sink design I'm pretty sure.


 
  Well there you go, getting all practical on us...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  don't smash his dreams man, drink the Kool-aid and enjoy life while it lasts.


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Leather and wood don't exactly dissipate heat very well.....Those cool looking aluminum chassis are part of the heat sink design I'm pretty sure.


 
  when there's an engineer, there is a way =)


----------



## Armaegis

A fan or two wouldn't be the end of the world. There are plenty of very quiet options in the world of cpu cooling already.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I want a lyr with closed loop water cooling.


----------



## john777

matttcg said:


> ^^ I want a lyr with closed loop water cooling.




Are your tubes getting that hot! Must be something wrong, surely...


----------



## jmsaxon69

What is all of the fascination with heat? So it get's hot, so what? What are you doing, licking it? The engine in your car get's hot too, never heard anyone complain about that...


----------



## john777

jmsaxon69 said:


> What is all of the fascination with heat? So it get's hot, so what? What are you doing, licking it? The engine in your car get's hot too, never heard anyone complain about that...




You must have seen my Avatar on Audioaficionado.org...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





john777 said:


> Are your tubes getting that hot! Must be something wrong, surely...


 
   
  Me do something wrong? Huh? I'm MattTCG!!


----------



## john777

matttcg said:


> Me do something wrong? Huh? I'm MattTCG!!




And I'm very pleased to make your acquaintance. No suggestion from me that you EVER do anything wrong.


----------



## MattTCG

lol...the amount of mistakes that I make typically amount to that of 10 regular headfiers.


----------



## rrahman

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> A fan or two wouldn't be the end of the world. There are plenty of very quiet options in the world of cpu cooling already.


 
  A fan would be a deal breaker for me... I hate those things


----------



## imackler

I just bought a Valhalla!!! First tube amp coming my way  Let's see how it does with the HD600 and HD650!


----------



## Tuco1965

That should be a nice pairing!  Congrats!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I just bought a Valhalla!!! First tube amp coming my way  Let's see how it does with the HD600 and HD650!


 
   
  Nice!! That's one that I've never heard. Let me know how it pairs with the Senn hp's.
   
   
  Enjoy...


----------



## john777

rrahman said:


> A fan would be a deal breaker for me... I hate those things




Yeah, wait 'til the Schiit hits the fan!

Sorry all, couldn't resist...


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> What is all of the fascination with heat? So it get's hot, so what? What are you doing, licking it? The engine in your car get's hot too, never heard anyone complain about that...


 
  Yeah but your steering wheel doesn't heat up like the engine. LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have no problems with the heat from Schiit stuff, but I wish they would find a way to isolate the volume knob to decrease the sensation of burning to the fingers.


----------



## Traum

matttcg said:


> ^^ I want a lyr with closed loop water cooling.



I know this is all mentioned in jest, but suppose if we were to really do something like this, where would you want to attach the heat pipe / conductive surface to? And, don't the tubes need a little heat to make them sound their best? If we have water cooling, I wonder how that would affect the sound quality...


----------



## ilikepooters

Quote: 





traum said:


> I know this is all mentioned in jest, but suppose if we were to really do something like this, where would you want to attach the heat pipe / conductive surface to? And, don't the tubes need a little heat to make them sound their best? If we have water cooling, I wonder how that would affect the sound quality...


 
   
  Probably give a more "liquid" presentation


----------



## HPiper

Quote: 





traum said:


> I know this is all mentioned in jest, but suppose if we were to really do something like this, where would you want to attach the heat pipe / conductive surface to? And, don't the tubes need a little heat to make them sound their best? If we have water cooling, I wonder how that would affect the sound quality...


 

 If it is really getting that hot I doubt all or even most of the heat is coming from the tubes, you would need to open the cover and use a temp probe to find out what is getting the hottest.


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





imackler said:


> I just bought a Valhalla!!! First tube amp coming my way  Let's see how it does with the HD600 and HD650!


 
  It might not be a pushpull AB amp with crazy THD numbers, but god does it works well with Sennheisers!


----------



## 45longcolt

Water cooling of tube amps has been done - in the speakers-amp world. Saw pics some years ago from an audio show. Imagine a big amp in a custom-made fishbowl and you get the general idea. Wonder if they ever sold any?


----------



## john57

I have seen some large tube amps at the RMAF that were using water cooled glass cylinders around the tubes.


----------



## Greed

Be careful, the tubes might cause a fire...


----------



## jmsaxon69

I don't understand why most every headphone amp only has one input? I want to hook my SACD player AND my computer to my Schiit....


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I don't understand why most every headphone amp only has one input? I want to hook my SACD player AND my computer to my Schiit....


 
  I got a switch, it fixed the problem nicely.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





rem0o said:


> I got a switch, it fixed the problem nicely.


 

 I'm a purist, I don't want other crap in front of my Schiit, it would be wrong....


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I'm a purist, I don't want other crap in front of my Schiit, it would be wrong....


 

 Would you prefer the switch inside your Schiit?
   
  I would only want a switch in my signal path of it was solid gold and hand carved by Tibetan monks. It's my understanding that this is a possibility at Schiit.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> Would you prefer the switch inside your Schiit?
> 
> I would only want a switch in my signal path of it was solid gold and hand carved by Tibetan monks. It's my understanding that this is a possibility at Schiit.


 
  LOL


----------



## HPiper

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> Would you prefer the switch inside your Schiit?
> 
> I would only want a switch in my signal path of it was solid gold and hand carved by Tibetan monks. It's my understanding that this is a possibility at Schiit.


 

 Well I know they have elfs working there sprinkling pixie dust on the amps and dacs as they leave the assembly line so monks are certainly not out of the question.


----------



## MattTCG

What would you guys think about some stylish aluminum footers that would screw into the bottom of the Schiit amps? Of course it wouldn't work for those who stack, but I don't stack and would appreciate such a feature. 
   
  The glue on the bottom of the rubber footers tends to heat up and get loose from the original position. 
   
  Just a thought.


----------



## john777

matttcg said:


> What would you guys think about some stylish aluminum footers that would screw into the bottom of the Schiit amps? Of course it wouldn't work for those who stack, but I don't stack and would appreciate such a feature.
> 
> The glue on the bottom of the rubber footers tends to heat up and get loose from the original position.
> 
> Just a thought.




Sounds like a good idea. I have my rubber feet resting on RDC cups at the moment.


----------



## 45longcolt

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What would you guys think about some stylish aluminum footers that would screw into the bottom of the Schiit amps? Of course it wouldn't work for those who stack, but I don't stack and would appreciate such a feature.
> 
> The glue on the bottom of the rubber footers tends to heat up and get loose from the original position.
> 
> Just a thought.


 
   
  This would be a good DIY project if you had the right tools (especially the taps and cutting fluid) and the courage to disassemble your Schiit. For stacking, just use small discs on top of the lower box, under the sharp points. I've seen it done with a Schiit stack, at a meet. Since the guy wasn't using any adhesive on the footers, it was fun to watch him juggle an amp and three cones at the same time. But he prevailed.


----------



## MattTCG

I've taken the bifrost apart when I added the uber board. It was no problem at all.


----------



## hodgjy

Dayton Audio makes really nice, adhesive aluminum isolation cones.  I put some on my Asgard 1, and the heat never affected the adhesive.  Looks sharp.


----------



## MattTCG

Nice, I'll have to check those out. Thanks for the info. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Can you link to the ones you bought? They have many. 
   
  Care to share a pic?


----------



## hodgjy

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=240-722


----------



## hodgjy




----------



## MattTCG

Very cool (pun intended)!! Thanks for the pic...


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=240-722


 
  Thanks Jay just ordered a set for my Mjolnir.


----------



## hodgjy

They are pretty handy and high quality.  I like that they're adjustable because none of my shelves seem to be flat.
   
  Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Thanks Jay just ordered a set for my Mjolnir.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Thanks Jay just ordered a set for my Mjolnir.


 

 Doesn't the mojo come with screwed in feet? Mine seems to have black rubber ones screwed in. Unless it was the previous owner who did it.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=240-722


 
   
  Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Thanks Jay just ordered a set for my Mjolnir.


 
   
  Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Doesn't the mojo come with screwed in feet? Mine seems to have black rubber ones screwed in. Unless it was the previous owner who did it.


 
  LOL........I ran to my schiit to look.......it is entirely possible that I would have spaced something like it having screwed in feet.  But not this time. No you got lucky and the previous owner must have or there has been a product change along the way.


----------



## hodgjy

The original Mjo did come with three screw in feet.  I didn't know they changed the feet along the way.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> The original Mjo did come with three screw in feet.  I didn't know they changed the feet along the way.


 
  I have 3 little rubber nubs that are about 1/4" on the bottom, is that what you mean?
   
  It rests on top of the PWD DAC and I would like some more space between the two as both pieces get warm. Right now the Mjo is sitting on top of a cotton cloth to protect the PWD's finish.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> I have 3 little rubber nubs that are about 1/4" on the bottom, is that what you mean?
> 
> It rests on top of the PWD DAC and I would like some more space between the two as both pieces get warm. Right now the Mjo is sitting on top of a cotton cloth to protect the PWD's finish.


 

 Yea take a closer look... the bottom centre of those rubber "nubs" might have a screw in there.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> I have 3 little rubber nubs that are about 1/4" on the bottom, is that what you mean?
> 
> It rests on top of the PWD DAC and I would like some more space between the two as both pieces get warm. Right now the Mjo is sitting on top of a cotton cloth to protect the PWD's finish.


 
   
  Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Yea take a closer look... the bottom centre of those rubber "nubs" might have a screw in there.


 
  Yup, there is a screw in each but I do not think they are adjustable feet.


----------



## MattTCG

All screws will be adjustable.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> All screws will be adjustable.


 
  Tight, loose, or removed?


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=240-722


 
   
  Just what I needed...  Thanks for this..


----------



## john777

matttcg said:


> All screws will be adjustable.




There is nothing like an adjustable screw...


----------



## Alexnova

I was just about to ask about feet for the Lyr too...
   
  I lost the feet that came with the Lyr, what's the most inexpensive way to get some elevation on the Lyr? I was thinking of getting some rubber and cutting it up.


----------



## gefski

alexnova said:


> I was just about to ask about feet for the Lyr too...
> 
> I lost the feet that came with the Lyr, what's the most inexpensive way to get some elevation on the Lyr? I was thinking of getting some rubber and cutting it up.



I've used cone points for years on heavy stuff, but for Bifrost & Valhalla got black rubber corks (many sizes from most any home center), stuck on with a touch of contact cement (can be removed later with solvent if desired), then added stick-on round felt pads to the bottom of the cork. Provides lots of air circulation all around, which I've always done for my tube and/or class A amps.

I would post a pic but have had trouble with that lately though have posted pics here in the past. If anyone can help with that, let me know.

I won't weigh in on the audibility debate regarding "cone point drain off energy vs. soft feet isolation", I just like lots of air circulation.


----------



## Alexnova

Sounds great, gefski. I think that is the route I will take too and very inexpensive. Yeah I like a lot of air circulation too.


----------



## hodgjy

I don't buy too much into it, either, and I've tried staging tests.  Haven't heard anything more than expectation bias.  But, I do enjoy how points look.
   
  Quote: 





gefski said:


> I won't weigh in on the audibility debate regarding "cone point drain off energy vs. soft feet isolation", I just like lots of air circulation.


----------



## gefski

Love the Coppola quote Alexnova!


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> I was just about to ask about feet for the Lyr too...
> 
> I lost the feet that came with the Lyr, what's the most inexpensive way to get some elevation on the Lyr? I was thinking of getting some rubber and cutting it up.


 
  prepare for this...
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  cheapest solution:
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/370775463396?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  more expensive ones, but inferior imo, but more quantity:
  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003IMSIBA
   
  bbc audio, honestly for the built quality from the picture, I would pay double the price of dayton audio stuff.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/120343818647
   
  4 colors of Dayton Audio that someone else mentioned too(although I have considered them for a while)
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/140975796306 honestly i agree with people's choice, black is the ****.no heat reflection. these things do conduct heat no matter the paint, so no difference in that regard, but black takes in radiation, so minimum reflection, not that the bulk of the dac top and lyr bottom is not radiating, just asthetic difference.
   
  satin version
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dayton-Audio-ISO-4SN-Satin-Nickel-Isolation-Cone-Set-of-4-/130908145478?pt=US_Speaker_Mounts_Stands&hash=item1e7abbc746 
   
  gold version
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dayton-Audio-ISO-4G-Gold-Isolation-Cone-Set-of-4-/140975802188?pt=US_Speaker_Mounts_Stands&hash=item20d2d0074c
   
  chrome version
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dayton-Audio-ISO-4BC-Black-Chrome-Isolation-Cone-Set-of-4-/140975796255?pt=US_Speaker_Mounts_Stands&hash=item20d2cff01f


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> prepare for this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow! You're like the Rex Ryan of audio! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  All in good fun, of course! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for compiling the info!
   
  Cheers


----------



## jmsaxon69

I think the isolation cones is pretty funny!  I have a set of "tone cones" here and some cups to use under them, but every time I think about doing it or adding my AudioQuest sorbathane feet to anything headphone related I can"t seem to do it because there is no sound being transmitted to the audio gear! It's headphones! Haha! I'll still probably do it to separate the Bifrost (don't have yet) from my Valhalla or my incoming Asgard 2 (depends on which one I pair it with).


----------



## Argo Duck

No sound being transmitted to the audio gear? No traffic rumble, foot-fall, ambient noise or other vibration? Cool!

But yeah I don't know either. I get that (e.g.) differential lateral ground waves (traffic rumble flexing a house's foundations and putting speakers and listeners in a different phase) might reasonably modulate sound waves from speakers. Same might apply to turntables and microphonic tubes. But noticeably? IDK - an interesting thing to model. 

With headphones though listener and transducers rock together so to speak. No differential; no modulation. As for (non-tube) electronics - I find it hard to see an obvious way in which physically vibrating an electronic chassis (I assume no significant, stray magnetic fields emanating from elsewhere) would modulate the signals the electronics is working on...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Well we forgot to mention the biggest benefit....it looks cool!
   
  You must live in a noisy environment!! a tin shack in the middle of NY city! haha!


----------



## Argo Duck

Nope, live in the midst of agricultural country = usually very quiet but sometimes heavy machinery working near-by.

Or light pets jumping about even nearer-by 

And yep, gotta look cool!


----------



## hodgjy

All audio equipment is microphonic to some extent.  How much?  Depends on the gear.  Can you hear its effects?  Depends on the gear and your own hearing.


----------



## jmsaxon69

hodgjy said:


> All audio equipment is microphonic to some extent.  How much?  Depends on the gear.  Can you hear its effects?  Depends on the gear and your own hearing.




I agree or I wouldn't own all that stuff, my point was more to the extreme of there is no 15" subwoofer banging away in the corner in a headphone setup, at least not in mine....haha!


----------



## MasterBlaster7

Nah...im at about 500 hours now.  I would say the original rule of thumb is right....400 hours for full break in.  But I would say it was 80%-85% broken in at 200 hours.  Thats just a gut feeling though...not measured.


----------



## Alexnova

Ok so this comment was made in another thread and I wanted to post it here because I plan on getting the Bifrost Uber.
   
  I have been looking for a cheap CD player that does digital coaxial S/PDIF out. If a $20 player acts the same as a $600 player when it comes to that output, then I'm getting that 20 dollar player
   
  Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> I am no expert in sending digital via SPDIF ( jitter, clock, etc ). You should check your DAC (manual, manufacturer, etc ) and see what they suggest. Some DACs are capable of restoring signal with very little jitter and the quality of transport or at least its SPDIFout does not matter much.


 
   
  Jason or anybody here can you tell me the quality?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## hodgjy

Any DAC worth having will re-clock all incoming signals.  Schiit DACs do.  Most DACs do it to some extent, but some do it better.
   
  Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Ok so this comment was made in another thread and I wanted to post it here because I plan on getting the Bifrost Uber.
> 
> I have been looking for a cheap CD player that does digital coaxial S/PDIF out. If a $20 player acts the same as a $600 player when it comes to that output, then I'm getting that 20 dollar player
> 
> ...


----------



## Alexnova

So basically it doesn't matter what kind of player I use then, correct?


----------



## Aaron94

Hoping someone here can help me.
   
  Awhile ago I made a thread asking about how I would connect a Bifrost to my laptop, and I got a few answers that I thought were correct, but now Im realizing they werent. Hopefully within the next few weeks I will be getting an Asgard 2/Bifrost stack to be used with my laptop. Now on the side of my laptop, just above the headphone jack, there is a label that says S/PDIF. Now to my understanding that is a digital output, one that can be used with the Bifrost. But what I dont understand is how I would do that, when I made the thread awhile back someone suggested me a Toslink to Mini Toslink cable, but now that Ive looked at it Ive found at that not only will the optical not work here, but the Mini Toslink is not a 3.5mm jack. 
   
  So does anyone know of a cable I could use to connect this laptop to the Bifrost, something like a Digital Coaxial to 3.5mm cable? I really need and appreciate any help give.
   
  If it helps my laptop is an Asus N56VJ-DH71.


----------



## hodgjy

Yes, and no.  If the player has a moderate or low amount of jitter, the DAC will have no problem re-clocking it.  If it has heaps of jitter, the DAC may not be able to re-clock it.
   
  But, in the "real world" ear tests, no, the player doesn't matter much.  I've used $30 DVD players as transports and haven't noticed any loss of quality.
   
  Quote: 





alexnova said:


> So basically it doesn't matter what kind of player I use then, correct?


----------



## MickeyVee

Is this what you're looking for?
  http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703FOPM15M/AudioQuest-Forest-OptiLink-1-5-meter-5-feet.html?tp=1859
   
  I use the Cinnamon version from my MacMini to my Bifrost.
  Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> not work here, but the Mini Toslink is not a 3.5mm jack.
> 
> So does anyone know of a cable I could use to connect this laptop to the Bifrost, something like a Digital Coaxial to 3.5mm cable? I really need and appreciate any help give.
> 
> If it helps my laptop is an Asus N56VJ-DH71.


----------



## Aaron94

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Is this what you're looking for?
> http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703FOPM15M/AudioQuest-Forest-OptiLink-1-5-meter-5-feet.html?tp=1859
> 
> I use the Cinnamon version from my MacMini to my Bifrost.


 
  Like I said, I dont think my laptops SPDIF is optical, I see no light coming from the jack at any times, I believe its digital.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Hoping someone here can help me.
> 
> Awhile ago I made a thread asking about how I would connect a Bifrost to my laptop, and I got a few answers that I thought were correct, but now Im realizing they werent. Hopefully within the next few weeks I will be getting an Asgard 2/Bifrost stack to be used with my laptop. Now on the side of my laptop, just above the headphone jack, there is a label that says S/PDIF. Now to my understanding that is a digital output, one that can be used with the Bifrost. But what I dont understand is how I would do that, when I made the thread awhile back someone suggested me a Toslink to Mini Toslink cable, but now that Ive looked at it Ive found at that not only will the optical not work here, but the Mini Toslink is not a 3.5mm jack.
> 
> ...


 
  How about USB then?
   
  Or this,
 S/PDIF Adapter,3.5mm MONO Plug to RCA Mono Jack Gold Plated 
   
   
Or this:
 SPDIF-3.5mm to RCA "Custom Series" 75 ohm Belden 1505F Cable, also analog Audio monocable


----------



## MickeyVee

Took a look at the specs: 1x 1/8" (3.5mm) Headphone Output with shared S/PDIF
I would assume that it's an optical/headphone jack like the Mac Mini.  Only way to know for sure is to try it. Only other option is USB.
  Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Like I said, I dont think my laptops SPDIF is optical, I see no light coming from the jack at any times, I believe its digital.


----------



## mangler

I know that with my Mac I can't see the light coming out of the headphone jack either. But when I plug the toslink 





aaron94 said:


> Like I said,aptops SPDIF is optical, I see no light coming from the jack at any times, I believe its digital.


----------



## Aaron94

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> How about USB then?
> 
> Or this,
> S/PDIF Adapter,3.5mm MONO Plug to RCA Mono Jack Gold Plated
> ...


 
  Would I be able to use this cable on the bottom with the Bifrosts Digital Coaxial input jack?


----------



## mangler

Fat fingers on my iPhone ruined my post. Anyway, even though I don't see light coming out of the jack itself, I do see light coming out when I have the toslink hooked up, using the 1/8in adapter. 

Also, I know I picked up one of these toslink cables with the adapter from Target a while ago. You could pick one up there and try it out. If it doesn't work just take it back. It's a plus too because you don't have to worry about shipping either


----------



## Aaron94

Quote: 





mangler said:


> Fat fingers on my iPhone ruined my post. Anyway, even though I don't see light coming out of the jack itself, I do see light coming out when I have the toslink hooked up, using the 1/8in adapter.
> 
> Also, I know I picked up one of these toslink cables with the adapter from Target a while ago. You could pick one up there and try it out. If it doesn't work just take it back. It's a plus too because you don't have to worry about shipping either


 
  Thanks for the help, Im actually waiting right now to chat with Asus support to see if they can tell me if its a digital or optical output SPDIF.
   
  In the mean time, can anyone telling me if my HD558s would benefit from an Asgard 2 + Bifrost, I will most likely be upgrading further along, but for now all I have is the 558s.


----------



## bearFNF

Those first ones were mono.
   
  Here one that is stereo from monoprice.com
*Metal 3.5mm Stereo Plug to RCA Jack Adaptor - Gold Plated*
**
   
  No idea if this will work for you or not as I do not know for sure what your laptop requires...
   
  If it does turn out to be optical I have used this one from Amazon:
 C2G / Cables to Go 27016 Velocity Toslink-to-Optical Mini Plug Digital Cable-2 Meters


----------



## Aaron94

Ok, just got done with Asus support.
   
  They say that the SPDIF in my laptop is digital, but apon watching a few videos I found that it can also be used optical, or at least Im hoping it can. The videos I watched were not my particular model, but I doubt Asus would put different SPDIF into different models.
   
  But what I still need is a Toslink to 3.5mm cable, not Toslink to Mini Toslink, as the Mini Toslink is actually somewhat smaller than a 3.5mm plug. I think I would also like to have a glass optics cable, as Ive heard glass Toslink is much better than plastic. Or would it be better for me to use the Digital Coaxial option with the Bifrost? Only wondering because Ive read about the jitter issues with toslink optical cables.
   
  Anyone able to help?


----------



## MattTCG

Get a bluejeans cable. The quality is very good and the price as well.


----------



## Alexnova

hodgjy said:


> Yes, and no.  If the player has a moderate or low amount of jitter, the DAC will have no problem re-clocking it.  If it has heaps of jitter, the DAC may not be able to re-clock it.
> 
> But, in the "real world" ear tests, no, the player doesn't matter much.  I've used $30 DVD players as transports and haven't noticed any loss of quality.



 
 Thanks for responding to me Jay. So even though I won't notice it in real world ear tests, how else will I know that the DAC is not re-clocking it if my player sends out a lot of jitter?


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> Thanks for responding to me Jay. So even though I won't notice it in real world ear tests, how else will I know that the DAC is not re-clocking it if my player sends out a lot of jitter?


 
  From the Gugnir FAQ:
   
   
 *Ah schiit, more marketing buzzwords. What’s Adapticlock™?*
 Nontechnically, it’s a way to decrapify the inputs, no matter how craptastic they are. If they are not very crappy, they get maximum decrapification, but even if they’re crappy, they get some decrapification.

  

 *Now you’re screwing with me!*
 Just a little. Technically, Adapticlock is the industry’s most advanced jitter-reducing reclocking system. It automatically switches between VCXO and VCO reclocking, depending on the quality of your source. High-quality sources run on the VCXOs, for best jitter performance. Lower-quality sources that deviate from the range of the VCXOs are routed automatically to the VCOs, and an LED on the front panel comes on. We call this the “buy better gear” light.

 *You’re kidding. Buy better gear?*
 Yep. Sources that are outside of the industry-standard specified range of clock frequencies probably ain’t so great. However, you’re still getting clock regeneration from the VCOs, but not the better regeneration performance of the VCXOs.


----------



## Alexnova

So since I'm not getting the Gungir, I won't know on the Bifrost Uber?


----------



## hodgjy

Jitter gets blow out of proportion.  Yes, it's real.  It can be measured.  But, most people will never hear it.  Also, many audiophiles consider vinyl records to be the best sounding recordings.  There's no physical way that even the best LP players can spin the record at constant velocity, so there will be variations in the sound.  Can we hear that?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But, that's the analog equivalent of jitter.  No one seems to be too worried about that.  I certainly don't care too much about jitter.  I trust my moderately-priced DAC takes care of as much jitter as possible.


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Jitter gets blow out of proportion.  Yes, it's real.  It can be measured.  But, most people will never hear it.  Also, many audiophiles consider vinyl records to be the best sounding recordings.  There's no physical way that even the best LP players can spin the record at constant velocity, so there will be variations in the sound.  Can we hear that?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But, that's the analog equivalent of jitter.  No one seems to be too worried about that.  I certainly don't care too much about jitter.  I trust my moderately-priced DAC takes care of as much jitter as possible.


 
  Jay,
   
  that was great info. I've been driving myself up the wall thinking about a need to upgrade my DAC (to be read as spend more). Your point is hence well taken. Sometimes a poor recording is a poor recording period and my mind plays games like "...if only I have a better DAC, a balanced DAC etc etc ". I suppose the Bifrost is a good enough DAC to take care of most of the perceptibly-imperceptible jitter.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





alexnova said:


> So since I'm not getting the Gungir, I won't know on the Bifrost Uber?


 

 If you're even considering balanced in the future, I'd say go for gungnir. If you find one used, it will only be marginally more pricey than a new bifrost uber. Although to be fair, I haven't heard the bifrost uber... but I have done A/B comparison between bifrost and gungnir feeding into the same amp and the gungnir was a the clear winner.


----------



## Aaron94

So can anyone tell me if a Mini Toslink connector will fit in and work with a dual SPDIF 3.5mm headphone jack, or do I need some kind of adapter? I need to know before I order the cable on Amazon just so I dont have to go through a return process.
   
  Also is there an audible difference between glass and plastic toslink cables?


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> So can anyone tell me if a Mini Toslink connector will fit in and work with a dual SPDIF 3.5mm headphone jack, or do I need some kind of adapter? I need to know before I order the cable on Amazon just so I dont have to go through a return process.


 
  Yes, they work great, at least on my macbook pro.
   


aaron94 said:


> Also is there an audible difference between glass and plastic toslink cables?


 
   
  Debatable, especially with digital cables.
   
  I would side with plastic because afaik, the spec was designed for a single piece of plastic, not for running the optical signal down a bunch of strands of thin glass. I haven't seen any proof that glass is better.


----------



## Aaron94

Thats all I needed, Ill just get some $10 toslink to mini toslink cable off Amazon to use with my Asus > Bofrost.
   
  Thank you!


----------



## hodgjy

Bo knows DACs now, too?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Thats all I needed, Ill just get some $10 toslink to mini toslink cable off Amazon to use with my Asus > Bofrost.
> 
> Thank you!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Bo knows DACs now, too?


 
  heh...


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Hoping someone here can help me.
> 
> Awhile ago I made a thread asking about how I would connect a Bifrost to my laptop, and I got a few answers that I thought were correct, but now Im realizing they werent. Hopefully within the next few weeks I will be getting an Asgard 2/Bifrost stack to be used with my laptop. Now on the side of my laptop, just above the headphone jack, there is a label that says S/PDIF. Now to my understanding that is a digital output, one that can be used with the Bifrost. But what I dont understand is how I would do that, when I made the thread awhile back someone suggested me a Toslink to Mini Toslink cable, but now that Ive looked at it Ive found at that not only will the optical not work here, but the Mini Toslink is not a 3.5mm jack.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I could not find the exact user manual on the Asus website, but I found one similar...
   

   
  What strikes me about this particular setup, is that somehow the Asus laptop detects whether the 3.5mm jack is being used for powering headphones, or connecting to an S/PDIF input? I suppose I would question how well that setup really works. I know Asus is a darn good company, I own their products and am pleased with them. I'm just a little curious about a dual use jack like that, especially one that gives you both an analog output, and a digital output, and manages to figure that out by itself.
   
  I guess the only reason you're doing this is so you don't spend the extra $100 for the USB port option on your Bifrost? That would just let you plug into a USB port and not have to worry about the dual use headphone jack. I also wonder if you're losing any audio quality by virtue of this setup. It is unclear to me if you're getting the same kind of digital signal over this jack that you'd otherwise get with the USB setup.
   
  I donno, but if it were me, and I was spending this kind of money on quality gear, I'd pop for the USB port option on the Bifrost. Just sayin'.


----------



## solserenade

For what it's worth the 1/8" output jack on all the MacBook Pros are also dual-use - both stereo analog and digital optical output.

It seems to work. Cheers. 

As you probably know, the typical plug has the signal on the outside metal surface of the entire shaft and tip, while optical has a single "light beam" right down the center core, not even utilizing the surface. 

Ha, kind of makes me wonder whether there are cables that do both!


----------



## Richsvt

Well I just stepped into the Schiit now. I pulled the trigger on a M&M combo for a new desktop system I am building. Can't wait to hear how they sound. Wanted a very low cost, low profile system that can deliver some punch.


----------



## MattTCG

Very nice start!!


----------



## GeirOve

Ive just bought a Asgard, will pair it with a Hegel HD11 DAC and Sennheiser HD600. It will arrive in the post this week.. Im looking forward to it


----------



## qbroid

The lyr is good for my Q701


----------



## SP Wild

Perhaps one day Schiit will release a circlotron OTL balanced tube SET that can pump good current into low impedance...I mean that was the design goal of such a design right?
   
  This amp could sit along side the Mjolner as the Valahalla sat along side the Asgard.
   
  I've looked long and hard and this circuit does not exist for headphones...
   
  Whadaya say Jason?  We just need to educate the masses to the benefits of SET OTL.
   
  Maybe I could buy two Valhallas...would the output impedance be low enough?


----------



## SP Wild

I know!
   
  Jason, what you could do is release this balanced circlotron to drive low impeadance high current phones, and high impedance cans...and get this...use it as an optional pre-amp into the End Game amp - and there is your hybridised End Game amp.
   
  This means the End Game can be hybridised optionally on the same platform, reducing development costs of a separate Hybrid Flagship.
   
  Jason, are you listening!?!?!?


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





> Jason, are you listening!?!?!?


 
   
  I'm not sure why this is rubbing me the wrong way and I'm not trying to call you out SP, but I would not want to respond to a post that ends this way...


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





pelli said:


> I'm not sure why this is rubbing me the wrong way and I'm not trying to call you out SP, but I would not want to respond to a post that ends this way...


 
   
  From reading his two posts, he just seemed enthusiastic about his ideas. Not actually demanding... Just my 2 cents.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Yeah but your steering wheel doesn't heat up like the engine. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So you hold on to the volume knob the whole time you listen?


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> So you hold on to the volume knob the whole time you listen?


 
  I kinda like the heat during the winter months.  The man cave gets cold then.  It makes for a great hand warmer,


----------



## john777

jmsaxon69 said:


> So you hold on to the volume knob the whole time you listen?




I always hold onto my knob...

Sorry...


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





john777 said:


> I always hold onto my knob...
> 
> Sorry...


----------



## Argo Duck

Edit: Oops, didn't see there was another page. Obviously I was responding to Pelli, and imackler already said what I say below!

^ I read SP's post as having a kidding tone with a serious idea behind it.

I got humor in it anyway, FWIW.


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





imackler said:


> From reading his two posts, he just seemed enthusiastic about his ideas. Not actually demanding... Just my 2 cents.


 
  Your probably right.  I must have been in a foul mood this morning and looking through that lens.  At the time I felt defensive for Jason as I bet he gets a TON of "advice" on what to do with his products.  No harm meant.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## Brycicles

Alright, I have a little inquiry involving the Lyr. Has anyone done the speaker smoke magic trick?? I really don't want to do it with my HD650s or 701's so I'm just trying to think what would be cool...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





brycicles said:


> Alright, I have a little inquiry involving the Lyr. Has anyone done the speaker smoke magic trick?? I really don't want to do it with my HD650s or 701's so I'm just trying to think what would be cool...


 
   
  Huh?


----------



## kn19h7

Quote from FAQ: 





> Wait, you mean my headphones might blow up?
> Dood, 6 watts is more than enough to let the *magic smoke* out of most headphones. Lyr packs a serious punch, and we expect that you’re grown-up enough to use it with respect. Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay, but we still recommend caution, especially if you’re tube-rolling. We will not be responsible for headphones damaged by Lyr.


 
  I think he meant this...


----------



## Brycicles

kn19h7 said:


> I think he meant this...


 Haha yes, my bad coming off as illiterate.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> So you hold on to the volume knob the whole time you listen?


 
  I don't even hold my steering wheel the whole time when I drive! Only for turning left or right of the car.


----------



## Byronb

The comments about heat really confuse me. I listen for several hours at a time and I do not notice the gear getting all that "hot", warm definitely, but never anything that makes me concerned for the gear, and I have never felt the heat through the volume nob. Is this just a perception thing, or is something amiss with my gear?


----------



## commtrd

The Mjolnir amp I currently own does get warm after an extended listening session as does the volume knob. However I have never felt any temps at any time that I thought were even remotely close to getting dangerous. In fact kind of surprised the amp does not get any warmer than it does... Seems like it's just loafing along even while totally cranked up and rockin'. This amp/dac combo with the LCD3s appears to be a magic setup far as I can tell. But haven't listened with any other high-end pieces either so the observation is only good far as it goes. The whole rig does what I wanted it to do so very happy so far.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





commtrd said:


> The Mjolnir amp I currently own does get warm after an extended listening session as does the volume knob. However I have never felt any temps at any time that I thought were even remotely close to getting dangerous. In fact kind of surprised the amp does not get any warmer than it does... Seems like it's just loafing along even while totally cranked up and rockin'. This amp/dac combo with the LCD3s appears to be a magic setup far as I can tell. But haven't listened with any other high-end pieces either so the observation is only good far as it goes. The whole rig does what I wanted it to do so very happy so far.


 
  Same here,,,,,,been on for 2.5 hours and just warm. The volume knob is warmer than the unit.
  My song's loudness varies so since I';ve had the Mojo, I've occasionally adjusted the volume at various amount of hours and nothing notable.
   
  I've got to say, I'm listening to Donovan's greatest hits for the first time with my home rig....songs I've heard many, many times before they sound so #$#@$ good with LCD3>Mojo>PWD I just can't believe it! I love my set up


----------



## SoupRKnowva

I will have to agree with you both, the Mjolnir with the LCD-3 is a match made in heaven. I used them with an Anedio D2, but i bet the PWD2 and the gungnir are nice as well


----------



## joebobbilly

How do you guys here with Mojo/Gungnir feel about it pairing with HD800?


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> I will have to agree with you both, the Mjolnir with the LCD-3 is a match made in heaven. I used them with an Anedio D2, but i bet the PWD2 and the gungnir are nice as well


 
  Plan to get the Gungnir/Mojo combo for the LCD 3. My source is the Macbook Air playing Amarra Hifi. I'd like a balanced cable set up if possible, i.e. from the Air all the way through to the LCD -3. I will connect the G/M with the PYST-XLR. I'm looking for suggestions for the remaining cables I need.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Plan to get the Gungnir/Mojo combo for the LCD 3. My source is the Macbook Air playing Amarra Hifi. I'd like a balanced cable set up if possible, i.e. from the Air all the way through to the LCD -3. I will connect the G/M with the PYST-XLR. I'm looking for suggestions for the remaining cables I need.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  I believe there is a SPDIF output on the Macbooks. So your setup would be something like: Mac --> Optical mini to fullsize --> Gungnir --> PYST XLR --> Mjolnir --> LCD 3 Included balanced 4 pin --> LCD 3.


----------



## Defiant00

rem0o said:


> I believe there is a SPDIF output on the Macbooks. So your setup would be something like: Mac --> Optical mini to fullsize --> Gungnir --> PYST XLR --> Mjolnir --> LCD 3 Included balanced 4 pin --> LCD 3.




Unless it's changed recently, I believe the Air is the one Mac line that does not have the dual-purpose headphone port with SPDIF output.


----------



## Mediahound

+1 I don't believe the Air has the optical out from the headphone jack like Macbook Pros do, so you'd have to use USB.


----------



## MickeyVee

Correct.  I have an 2011 MBA (& keep up with the latest MBA technologies) and it's only analog audio out - USB is the only option (unless you stream).
  Quote: 





mediahound said:


> +1 I don't believe the Air has the optical out from the headphone jack like Macbook Pros do, so you'd have to use USB.


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Correct.  I have an 2011 MBA (& keep up with the latest MBA technologies) and it's only analog audio out - USB is the only option (unless you stream).


 

 Thanks for the correction. Thought they had it all. So yeah, USB for the win  I guess.


----------



## kothganesh

defiant00 said:


> Unless it's changed recently, I believe the Air is the one Mac line that does not have the dual-purpose headphone port with SPDIF output.



Thanks all. There is no SPDIF in the Air. Ordered the Gungnir with the USB option.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Thanks all. There is no SPDIF in the Air. Ordered the Gungnir with the USB option.


 
  The new USB 2 card should keep you happy. Wish I could hear it myself. I had the Bifrost with the USB 1 card. Sigh.


----------



## tuna47

I have the odac to lyr to he500 do you think with USB that the bifrost would make a large improvement 
The money is possible but not easy


----------



## Defiant00

tuna47 said:


> I have the odac to lyr to he500 do you think with USB that the bifrost would make a large improvement
> The money is possible but not easy




From my personal experience I would expect you to hear a difference, and I would also expect it to be a fairly small/subtle thing.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I have the odac to lyr to he500 do you think with USB that the bifrost *would make a large improvement*
> The money is possible but not easy


 
  It takes some experience to differentiate between DACs and to appreciate the better ones. I remember when I used to tell people that I couldn't hear much of a difference between my Fiio E17 and Dacport LX. That was foolish and I didn't know what to look for when evaluating DACs. Now DACs make a huge difference for me. As you can see I spent much more on my DAC than my amp, almost  as much as my HE-500. Once you start to appreciate it there is no going back. Initially you might not hear much of a difference but give it some time and the Bifrost will be well worth your money eventually. Without the Concero in my chain everything sounds smeared and veiled to me now.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> It takes some experience to differiate between DACs and to appreciate the better ones. I remember when I used to tell people that I couldn't hear much of a difference between my Fiio E17 and Dacport LX. That was foolish and I didn't know what to look for when evaluating DACs. Now DACs make a huge difference for me. As you can see I spent much more on my DAC than my amp, almost  as much as my HE-500. Once you start to appreciate it there is no going back. Initially you might not hear much of a difference but give it some time and the Bifrost will be well worth your money eventually. Without the Concero in my chain everything sounds smeared and veiled to me now.


 

 What's a Concero Filter 2?


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> What's a Concero Filter 2?


 
  Concero is a DAC and Filter 2 is the Apodizing Filter option in the Concero.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> What's a Concero Filter 2?


 
  Concero is a DAC by Resonessence labs, he has his on filter option 2.
  Read this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634760/resonessence-labs-concero-discussion-review-thead
  and see their site for more:
http://resonessencelabs.com/concero/


----------



## jmsaxon69

Yeah, I went to that page before asking the question, I just didn't and still don't see anything about a filter setting, thanks for 'splaining to me!


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Yeah, I went to that page before asking the question, I just didn't and still don't see anything about a filter setting, thanks for 'splaining to me!


 
  Um, if you read the review I referenced there is a whole section on the filters...
  this link: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634760/resonessence-labs-concero-discussion-review-thead
  Here is the first sentence from the section on filters:
*"FILTERS*
 [size=small] A key feature of the Concero is the selectable filter options. The included Apple remote is used to cycle through - initial setting is no upsampling, followed by a minimum-phase IIR filter, and then a linear-phase apodizing filter." - by project86[/size]
 [size=small]  [/size]
 [size=small] It's a pretty extensive review.[/size]


----------



## jmsaxon69

Somehow I missed the link to the review and only saw and clicked the link to the manufacturers page, it was late....

Thanks again for the info


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I have the odac to lyr to he500 do you think with USB that the bifrost would make a large improvement
> The money is possible but not easy


 

 With the HD650, I honestly couldn't tell apart the ODAC and the Bifrost. IMO, not worth it in your position.


----------



## tuna47

Thanks for the help appreciate it . Maybe try it as a holiday gift


----------



## Pedro Keil

I m thinking about buying a lyr and a bifrost to match my lcd 2 and a beyer t90, is it a good combination?


----------



## Defiant00

pedro keil said:


> I m thinking about buying a lyr and a bifrost to match my lcd 2 and a beyer t90, is it a good combination?




For LCD-2s, absolutely! Haven't heard the Beyers though, so not sure about that pairing.


----------



## Pedro Keil

thanks,
  I decided to buy lyr soon


----------



## Defiant00

It's a great amp!


----------



## hodgjy

This is supposed to be the big week for Asgard 2 shipments.  Who's gotten shipping notifications so far?


----------



## Defiant00

I have; ordered back at the end of May.


----------



## hodgjy

Sweet!  Sounds like they are rolling now!
   
  Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I have; ordered back at the end of May.


----------



## NZheadcase

Just sold my Asgard (v1) today. Man, parting with your stuff is hard. Especially if you've had nothing but good experiences with said stuff. Not parting with any of my other Schiit anytime soon. Just too difficult.


----------



## Pedro Keil

can someone explain to me what tube rolling mean? My english is not excelent and I didn t understand


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





pedro keil said:


> can someone explain to me what tube rolling mean? My english is not excelent and I didn t understand


 

 It's like when lumber jacks put the logs in the water and 2 of them get ontop and try to make the other fall off, but it's done with tubes.
   
  Ahhh! HAha! just kidding...
   
  It's just trying out new tubes in your gear, different tubes, older tubes etc...
   
  A stupid term if you ask me.


----------



## Pedro Keil

hahahah,
  thanks for explaining jmsaxon


----------



## Pedro Keil

but you can do it with any tube amp, right?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





pedro keil said:


> but you can do it with any tube amp, right?


 

 Sometimes a manufacturer will make the design so you can't swap different kinds of tubes, only the same kind for instance if it used 12AX7AU you could only use other 12AX&AU tubes. Some of the Schiit stuff was non-rollable at first.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> It's like when lumber jacks put the logs in the water and 2 of them get ontop and try to make the other fall off, but it's done with tubes.
> 
> Ahhh! HAha! just kidding...
> 
> ...


 
   
  It does seem a little strange, until you start tube rolling yourself. You learn to appreciate that roll you've gotta do.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> It does seem a little strange, until you start tube rolling yourself. You learn to appreciate that roll you've gotta do.


 

 I get it, I am in the audio biz and have changed tubes a pretty fair amount of time over the years.  It's still a stupid term in my opinion...


----------



## Pedro Keil

Is it worth to already change it in my upcoming lyr?
  if yes, which?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





pedro keil said:


> Is it worth to already change it in my upcoming lyr?
> if yes, which?


 
   
  Check this out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## hodgjy

Exactly.  Often, to remove tubes, you have to gently rock them back and forth from their sockets.  So, you're rolling them.
   
  Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> A stupid term if you ask me.


 
   
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> It does seem a little strange, until you start tube rolling yourself. You learn to appreciate that roll you've gotta do.


----------



## john777

pedro keil said:


> Is it worth to already change it in my upcoming lyr?
> 
> if yes, which?





jmsaxon69 said:


> Check this out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread





Yes, check the thread above.

The Lyr ships with tubes which are fine. They give a good sound whilst the amp is breaking in. Some people stick with those tubes, as they are perfectly happy with the sound.

Other people like to roll the tubes to get a different sound.

I have a matched pair of Siemens E288CC in my Lyr. Rather expensive... But what a sound!


----------



## Rope

The term "tube rollng" is a misnomer. The correct term is wallet rolling.


----------



## Aaron94

Hey guys, Im back with another question.
   
  Basically I have around $600 to spend on some gear. The way I see it I have 2 choices, since Id like to stick with Schiit gear. Option one is to buy an Asgard 2 and a Bifrost, then use them with my current HD558s for all my listening. Option two is to buy a Magni and Modi, then spend the remaining money on a better set of headphones like some Mad Dogs or some SRH-940s.
   
  I guess what Im wondering is which do you think would be a better option? Im fully open to other opinions, so please tell me what you think.


----------



## tuna47

I find the stock tubes with the lyr do no sound as good as tubes you can buy
Orange globes etc


----------



## john777

tuna47 said:


> I find the stock tubes with the lyr do no sound as good as tubes you can buy
> Orange globes etc




As with a lot of things in audio, Hi Fi etc. the stock tubes get you going. There are bound to be tubes which sound better to your ears, but if someone has just bought a Lyr, they should give the stock tubes time to break in as well as the other components of the amp itself. Then start rolling...


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Hey guys, Im back with another question.
> 
> Basically I have around $600 to spend on some gear. The way I see it I have 2 choices, since Id like to stick with Schiit gear. Option one is to buy an Asgard 2 and a Bifrost, then use them with my current HD558s for all my listening. Option two is to buy a Magni and Modi, then spend the remaining money on a better set of headphones like some Mad Dogs or some SRH-940s.
> 
> I guess what Im wondering is which do you think would be a better option? Im fully open to other opinions, so please tell me what you think.


 

 I'd get Asgard 2 and Modi... and for the remaining money you can still get SRH-940 (if you decide so).


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Hey guys, Im back with another question.
> 
> Basically I have around $600 to spend on some gear. The way I see it I have 2 choices, since Id like to stick with Schiit gear. Option one is to buy an Asgard 2 and a Bifrost, then use them with my current HD558s for all my listening. Option two is to buy a Magni and Modi, then spend the remaining money on a better set of headphones like some Mad Dogs or some SRH-940s.
> 
> I guess what Im wondering is which do you think would be a better option? Im fully open to other opinions, so please tell me what you think.


 
   
  I've always found cans make by far the biggest difference, so that's where most of my money would go if I was in your shoes.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I've always found cans make by far the biggest difference, so that's where most of my money would go if I was in your shoes.


 
  +1 For most part agreed, got to start building with a solid foundation.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> I've always found cans make by far the biggest difference, so that's where most of my money would go if I was in your shoes.


 
  Quote: 





aaron94 said:


> Hey guys, Im back with another question.
> 
> Basically I have around $600 to spend on some gear. The way I see it I have 2 choices, since Id like to stick with Schiit gear. Option one is to buy an Asgard 2 and a Bifrost, then use them with my current HD558s for all my listening. Option two is to buy a Magni and Modi, then spend the remaining money on a better set of headphones like some Mad Dogs or some SRH-940s.
> 
> I guess what Im wondering is which do you think would be a better option? Im fully open to other opinions, so please tell me what you think.


 
   
  Depends on how much you like the sound of the HD558... if you like the Sennheiser house sound... I'd say hunt for a solid used pair of HD650/600 (whichever you can find more easily... should be no more than about $350/300 respectively). These cans scale very very well with good gear later on when you might upgrade. Then with remaining 200-300ish... grab a magni/modi stack. That M&M combo is hard to beat at it's price point. My next recommendation would be the Fiio E17/E09K combo (also about $200-250), cause the E17 allows for portable use if you are looking for that option.


----------



## gefski

aaron94 said:


> Hey guys, Im back with another question.
> 
> Basically I have around $600 to spend on some gear. The way I see it I have 2 choices, since Id like to stick with Schiit gear. Option one is to buy an Asgard 2 and a Bifrost, then use them with my current HD558s for all my listening. Option two is to buy a Magni and Modi, then spend the remaining money on a better set of headphones like some Mad Dogs or some SRH-940s.
> 
> I guess what Im wondering is which do you think would be a better option? Im fully open to other opinions, so please tell me what you think.




I like your thought of putting $ into the Bifrost first. The source component is the starting point, affecting everything downstream. (I'm assuming lossless files properly delivered to the dac) Then a versatile amp that can drive all different loads. Now you're ready to experiment with different sounding cans. Over time, you're likely to own more cans and enjoy their varying personalities.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





gefski said:


> I like your thought of putting $ into the Bifrost first. The source component is the starting point, affecting everything downstream. (I'm assuming lossless files properly delivered to the dac) Then a versatile amp that can drive all different loads. Now you're ready to experiment with different sounding cans. Over time, you're likely to own more cans and enjoy their varying personalities.


 

 +1 to this too... seems like you're using onboard sound right now from your ASUS laptop. (which could be quite limiting)


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





gefski said:


> The source component is the starting point, affecting everything downstream. (I'm assuming lossless files properly delivered to the dac)


 
  +2


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





rope said:


> The term "tube rollng" is a misnomer. The correct term is wallet rolling.


 
  This!
   
  LOL. Pretty soon you'll wish you just purchased the Mjo.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> This!
> 
> LOL. Pretty soon you'll wish you just purchased the Mjo.


 

 LOL precisely why I skipped the Lyr... as well I found a good deal on a used one


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> This!
> 
> LOL. Pretty soon you'll wish you just purchased the Mjo.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> LOL precisely why I skipped the Lyr... as well I found a good deal on a used one


 
   
  LOL i picked up the Lyr... and just started rollin. oh dear.


----------



## RockvillePete

[size=10.5pt]Hello all! [/size]
   
  [size=10.5pt]I’m fairly new here and recently purchased a Schiit Valhalla to go with my Cardas-cabled HD650’s and the sound from this amp/can combo is amazing! Far better than the headphone output from my vintage Carver C-1. I sourced a couple of sets of Russian tubes from the 60’s and 70’s that improved the detail, transparency and warmth of the amp over the stock set.[/size]
   
  [size=10.5pt]The vast majority of my music is on CD and a Marantz Super Audio CD/DVD player functions as the source, using the internal DAC and RCA output coupled to the Valhalla by an Audioquest Big Sur interconnect. I’m not sure what model of Marantz; it’s about 5 or 6 years old and cost around $550 or so at the time.[/size]
   
  [size=10.5pt]Would a CD transport with outboard DAC, something like the Little Dot CDP-1 and Bifrost achieve significantly better sound than the Marantz? I’d like to get the best possible sound I can without spending more than another $800. I’m looking for greater bass weight/heft and smoother highs, particularly from female vocals, trumpet, and flute when played at higher volume. There’s still a slight brashness or resonance present from these and I don’t know if it’s a function of the cans, amp, or source. The bass extension and definition are good; I just wish there were a little more of it or greater fullness. The detail and transparency are currently excellent so I’m not looking for much of an improvement there. Would the CDP-1/Bifrost combination be an improvement in these areas? [/size]
   
  [size=10.5pt]Thanks guys![/size]
  [size=10.5pt]



[/size]


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





rockvillepete said:


> [size=10.5pt]Hello all! [/size]
> 
> [size=10.5pt]I’m fairly new here and recently purchased a Schiit Valhalla to go with my Cardas-cabled HD650’s and the sound from this amp/can combo is amazing! Far better than the headphone output from my vintage Carver C-1. I sourced a couple of sets of Russian tubes from the 60’s and 70’s that improved the detail, transparency and warmth of the amp over the stock set.[/size]
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey there! See you don't have a lot of posts, so if no one has said it, welcome to the forums! 
   
  Is your marantz unit anything like this ?

   
  I doubt any of the harshness is from the DAC. It could be the tubes, maybe someone who owns a Valhalla could comment on that and give a more preferable set of tubes. Unfortunately, I can't think of any changes other than the headphones themselves that would really change the bass impact and smoother highs. Do you know if you have silver screen or black screen HD650s?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





rockvillepete said:


> [size=10.5pt]Hello all! [/size]
> 
> [size=10.5pt]I’m fairly new here and recently purchased a Schiit Valhalla to go with my Cardas-cabled HD650’s and the sound from this amp/can combo is amazing! Far better than the headphone output from my vintage Carver C-1. I sourced a couple of sets of Russian tubes from the 60’s and 70’s that improved the detail, transparency and warmth of the amp over the stock set.[/size]
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know man, from what you describe and the gear you have I'd almost be willing to say that changing out the tubes and doing some experimentation in that area is worth while, maybe change the interconnect to something more mellow also.  It's good stuff, maybe just not the right combination? Try putting the stock cables back on the HD650?


----------



## RockvillePete

[size=10pt]Thanks for your input guys! I’ve never listened to a separate CD/DAC and wondered if there would be any benefit in going that route. I get the impression that the difference wouldn’t justify the expense so for the meantime I’m staying with the Marantz.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]*elwappo99:* Yes, the Marantz looks very much like the one shown. I wanted a unit that had excellent sound and this was the one recommended. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]*jmsaxon69: *I honestly don’t know which screen is in my 650’s. I purchased them around four or five years ago. When did Sennheiser make the switch from black to silver?  I gather there must be a difference in sound between the two? I’ll have to do some research into this.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Overall I’m very happy with the sound from this combination. Jason & Mike make a killer amp for $350! Replacing the driver tubes with the 1964 Novosibirsk set improved the resolution and detail I was getting from the stock 6N1P’s which was already very good. It’s possible that they may be a little _too _intense if that makes any sense. I’ll live with a little brashness if that’s the price to pay for the level of detail and transparency I’m getting with the older tubes. I also found that swapping the stock output tubes with the 1963 Foton 6N6P’s gave a slightly improved bass response without making the amp sound stodgy or slow. [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]I’ve got another set of driver & output tubes I purchased from Mr.Tom that are of a slightly newer vintage. I haven’t listened to them yet so I’ll stick ‘em in and see how they fare. This may be the best I’m going to get with this system and it’s a vast improvement over my 30 year old Carver C-1. I think I’m going to retire the old boy and upgrade to a Woo WA2 for my main system. The Valhalla is currently in my bedroom system.[/size]
  [size=10pt]Tubes all the way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





rockvillepete said:


> [size=10pt]Thanks for your input guys! I’ve never listened to a separate CD/DAC and wondered if there would be any benefit in going that route. I get the impression that the difference wouldn’t justify the expense so for the meantime I’m staying with the Marantz.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]*elwappo99:* Yes, the Marantz looks very much like the one shown. I wanted a unit that had excellent sound and this was the one recommended. [/size]
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  If you've got a marantz that looks anything like that you'll really never need to upgrade. I had one of those and it was stellar. 
   
  You most likely have the older black screen HD650. The newer ones look like this. The older ones were known to not be as smooth across the upper range and focus a little more on bass. Fwiw, I actually preferred the black ones as the bass and midrange was very smooth and incredible with tube amps.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Hey guys, I just ordered the Uber Bifrost and Asgard 2 but forgot to add the RCA cables to the order.  The total shipping for the first order is $15.72.  Looks like I can't edit the order now and if I add the RCA cable now it would cost me $6.44 for shipping...If I would've added the RCA cables in the first place would I get charged the same $15.72 for shipping or what?  Thanks


----------



## shogen

Probably not but you should just contact Schiit directly.... http://schiit.com/contact/
   
  If the order hasn't been shipped then they can probably add it into your order without a hitch... Hit em up quick though, the sooner the better!
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Hey guys, I just ordered the Uber Bifrost and Asgard 2 but forgot to add the RCA cables to the order.  The total shipping for the first order is $15.72.  Looks like I can't edit the order now and if I add the RCA cable now it would cost me $6.44 for shipping...If I would've added the RCA cables in the first place would I get charged the same $15.72 for shipping or what?  Thanks


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





shogen said:


> Probably not but you should just contact Schiit directly.... http://schiit.com/contact/
> 
> If the order hasn't been shipped then they can probably add it into your order without a hitch... Hit em up quick though, the sooner the better!


 
  Do they accept phone calls? If so, call.


----------



## shogen

It's 10pm already.... you could leave a message but they say best contact is email.... so click the linky http://schiit.com/contact/
  Quote: 





saraguie said:


> Do they accept phone calls? If so, call.


----------



## shogen

just in case you are too busy to click linkage... 
   
  info@schiit.com


----------



## TheChosen0ne

I already emailed them before asking here but I thought I'd ask here too to see if you guys would know anything about this.  Thanks guys


----------



## TheChosen0ne

I ordered yesterday afternoon and I am shocked they are shipping my uber bifrost and asgard 2 now since it said the asgard 2 was on backorder and would be shipped in 5-7 days.  Anyways I'm an idiot when it comes to audio stuff, can anyone go to amazon and help me look for the right/best rca cables?  There are a bunch of them and not sure which one to choose.


----------



## shogen

http://www.amazon.com/PYST-RCA-Cables-6-inches/dp/B00CICPTHC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1373662072&sr=8-9&keywords=schiit 
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> I ordered yesterday afternoon and I am shocked they are shipping my uber bifrost and asgard 2 now since it said the asgard 2 was on backorder and would be shipped in 5-7 days.  Anyways I'm an idiot when it comes to audio stuff, can anyone go to amazon and help me look for the right/best rca cables?  There are a bunch of them and not sure which one to choose.


----------



## Defiant00

Woohoo, finally have some Schiit again!
   
  Now I can stop plugging my HD600s directly into my laptop. Even on first listen it's pretty blatantly obvious that the laptop wasn't doing the Sennheisers any favors.
   
  Incidentally, looks like they've updated their PYST RCA cables, the new ones are thinner and more flexible and seem to work noticeably better at not lifting something as light as the Modi.


----------



## nelamvr6

I received this month's Stereophile today, and there's an review of the Bifrost!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I received this month's Stereophile today, and there's an review of the Bifrost!


 
   
  Yep, we were sworn to secrecy. We still can't quote it, but the measurements should put to rest some of this "Schiit's a bunch of knuckle-draggers working in a garage with no test equipment making stuff that can't possibly measure well" nonsense.


----------



## Byronb

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, we were sworn to secrecy. We still can't quote it, but the measurements should put to rest some of this "Schiit's a bunch of knuckle-draggers working in a garage with no test equipment making stuff that can't possibly measure well" nonsense.




That is awesome Jason, but for my part I don't need a bunch of numbers and "professional" opinions to tell me when Shiit sounds amazing. Shiit is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yep, we were sworn to secrecy. We still can't quote it, but the measurements should put to rest some of this "Schiit's a bunch of knuckle-draggers working in a garage with no test equipment making stuff that can't possibly measure well" nonsense.


 
   
  I think you fared pretty well!  
   
  Though I was SHOCKED to hear that the MSB Diamond, at $43,325.00 MSRP, sounded better than the Bifrost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think that as a subscriber, I am allowed to quote a bit: "...the Bifrost has the highest ratio of value to price of any product I've reviewed."


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yep, we were sworn to secrecy. We still can't quote it, but the measurements should put to rest some of this "Schiit's a bunch of knuckle-draggers working in a garage with no test equipment making stuff that can't possibly measure well" nonsense.


 
   
   
  Hey Jason, can you please check your email?  Thanks!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Hey Jason, can you please check your email?  Thanks!


 
   
  I always check my email. If I haven't responded, I didn't get it.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> I always check my email. If I haven't responded, I didn't get it.


 
   
   
  Looks like Alex responded and my problem is solved.  Can't wait to try out the Uber Bifrost and Asgard 2 which shipped today!


----------



## jexby

not having the mag,
  I poked around the stereophile web site, but guess this new article/review has not been posted yet.

 Once folks find it could you add the URL to this thread?
   
  my BiFrost Uber USB2 hasn't let me down, but it's also my first desktop DAC so I don't have the victory dance of comparing it against other devices.

   
  Thanks,
   
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I think you fared pretty well!
> 
> Though I was SHOCKED to hear that the MSB Diamond, at $43,325.00 MSRP, sounded better than the Bifrost.
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

Was it the uber Bifrost or stock?
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I think you fared pretty well!
> 
> Though I was SHOCKED to hear that the MSB Diamond, at $43,325.00 MSRP, sounded better than the Bifrost.
> 
> ...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Yep, we were sworn to secrecy. We still can't quote it, but the measurements should put to rest some of this "Schiit's a bunch of knuckle-draggers working in a garage with no test equipment making stuff that can't possibly measure well" nonsense.


 

 What? None of that's true? Well Schiit!
   
  I think you just lost a customer.... I only deal with fly-by-night operations....and knuckle-draggers forthat matter
   
  damn! I better order one before they go on back order!! hahaha!


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





hodgjy said:


> Was it the uber Bifrost or stock?


 
   
   
  Both, the reviewer said the Uber upgrade was worth the money.  The Bifrost sounded and measured better with the Uber.


----------



## hodgjy

Thanks.  Good to know.
   
  Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Both, the reviewer said the Uber upgrade was worth the money.  The Bifrost sounded and measured better with the Uber.


----------



## john777

nelamvr6 said:


> I received this month's Stereophile today, and there's an review of the Bifrost!




Yep, got mine two days ago and I'm UK...


----------



## jmsaxon69

john777 said:


> Yep, got mine two days ago and I'm UK...




What is on the cover? August issue?


----------



## 45longcolt

While it's cool to see one of my favorite companies getting some good ink, a lot of the review seemed like "praising with faint damn." Just wish they'd listened to the Gungnir, which puts the Bifrost in the shade.
   
  Waiting for the Yggdrasil. BTW is that pronounced "Yig" as in what a Norseman might ask an Irishman to dance, or "Ig" as in Mr. Pop (last spotted in a Chrysler commercial with some fashion designer - what's up with that?)
   
  Jason, how about some new t-shirts - "I'm a Schiithead" ...


----------



## bearFNF

Form Wikipedia:  In Norse mythology Yggdrasil (pronounced “IG-druh-sill”)


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





45longcolt said:


> While it's cool to see one of my favorite companies getting some good ink, a lot of the review seemed like "praising with faint damn." Just wish they'd listened to the Gungnir, which puts the Bifrost in the shade.
> 
> Waiting for the Yggdrasil. **BTW is that pronounced "Yig" as in what a Norseman might ask an Irishman to dance, or "Ig" as in Mr. Pop (last spotted in a Chrysler commercial with some fashion designer - what's up with that?)
> 
> ***Jason, how about some new t-shirts - "I'm a Schiithead" ...


 
  **Oh boy that's another $50  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ***Absolutely! What a great idea.......


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> What is on the cover? August issue?


 
  Cover says "Rare Ayre"


----------



## john777

jmsaxon69 said:


> What is on the cover? August issue?




Photo of Ayre AX-5, and also, as we now know Real Cool Schiit: The All-American $449 Bifrost DAC

And a lot of entry-level gems, high-end analog, sexy speakers, hot tubes, Terence Blanchard, Hi-Fi to Go


----------



## commtrd

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Maybe due to the bank -roll- it takes before done with the tube rolling? I have read of guys getting into a couple thousand or more with serious tube rolling...


----------



## Saraguie

commtrd said:


> Maybe due to the bank -roll- it takes before done with the tube rolling? I have read of guys getting into a couple thousand or more with serious tube rolling...



LOL good one. 

What do you use with your LCD3s?


----------



## commtrd

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My Mjo/Gun measure up quite nicely with LCD3... Many hours spent in audio bliss. Really curious to start seeing reviews of the statement gear. Besides some of the most innovative ground breaking items were developed in someone's garage...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





john777 said:


> Photo of Ayre AX-5, and also, as we now know Real Cool Schiit: The All-American $449 Bifrost DAC
> 
> And a lot of entry-level gems, high-end analog, sexy speakers, hot tubes, Terence Blanchard, Hi-Fi to Go


 

 Thanks, went and got it today,  also has a Astell and Kern AK100 review in it as well.


----------



## john777

jmsaxon69 said:


> Thanks, went and got it today,  also has a Astell and Kern AK100 review in it as well.




That was Hi-Fi to Go...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





john777 said:


> That was Hi-Fi to Go...


 

 No sure what you mean by that?


----------



## john777

jmsaxon69 said:


> No sure what you mean by that?




You have the magazine; see the front cover...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





john777 said:


> You have the magazine; see the front cover...


 

 Uh, okay...thanks for pointing that out?


----------



## Richsvt

Well, I have had my M&M stack for a little under week and been listening to it some. Mostly FLAC though a PC and gotta say, what a wonderful set-up. Just delightful sound. I have been busy these last few days so haven't had a lot of time to devote to solid listening, but so far, I am in sonic heaven. 
Will have to post some more critical observations once I get some down time and have time to run through my catalog.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





azteca x said:


> Cover says "Rare Ayre"


 
   
   
  A breed of house-cat probably.


----------



## huberd

I have the Vahalla and it works fine with Denon D-2000. It works even better with Beyerdynamics DT-990 600 ohm. Wow it has buttery smooth treble. I also have the Asgard2. I have tried both headphones with it and it has a bit more bass but I like tube sound better. It is a matter of preference.


----------



## Pedro Keil

Are schiit amps for jack 1/4 or 1/8 plugs?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





pedro keil said:


> Are schiit amps for jack 1/4 or 1/8 plugs?


 
  1/4"


----------



## Pedro Keil

Thanks


----------



## jmsaxon69

I decided to listen to my AKG K702 65th Anniv. through my Valhalla a bit more before I sold the amp and I am liking the sound! Maybe the K702 are finally broken in all the way?  I wasn't too keen on the sound when I first tried the combo a while back but something has changed....Maybe both pieces are broken in? Haven't been listening to the Valhalla much at all since I sold the Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm
   
  Anyone else have this combo at home that they can try? I even listened to the Musical Fidelity X-Can v2 last night on the same material to make sure I wasn't crazy and I stand by what I hear, the X-Can is a known good match for the AKG and I may prefer the Schiit to it!  Maybe NOT selling the Valhalla?


----------



## Aaron94

Anyone here know how an Asgard 2 and Bifrost will affect some HD558s and some Shure SRH-940s?

I dont have the amp or DAC yet, or the SRH-940s. But I expect to have them within the next 2 weeks or so. So Im curious how the sound will change.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

This is a dumb question but do you guys have the volume bar on the bottom right of the task bar all the way up?


----------



## Defiant00

thechosen0ne said:


> This is a dumb question but do you guys have the volume bar on the bottom right of the task bar all the way up?




Yes, as long as I'm not using an amp where I need more travel on the volume knob.


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> This is a dumb question but do you guys have the volume bar on the bottom right of the task bar all the way up?


 

 To add to Defiant00's answer, there is a discussion about software volume control here
  Basically, you should adjust your software volume to the highest setting that allows you to get a good volume range on your amp's volume knob. If you have your soundcard or DAC set to work at 24bit depth, there is no reason to fret about using a reasonable amount of software volume attenuation (as much as -35 dB is probably fine, depending on the situation).
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## huberd

I have an X-Can V8 which I compared to the Valhalla. I like the Valhalla better since the midrange sounds much better and fuller. The X-Can V8 is a good amp but I like the Valhalla much better. My X-Can V8 is unplugged if anyone want so buy it from me.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





huberd said:


> I have an X-Can V8 which I compared to the Valhalla. I like the Valhalla better since the midrange sounds much better and fuller. The X-Can V8 is a good amp but I like the Valhalla much better. My X-Can V8 is unplugged if anyone want so buy it from me.


 

 What headphones are you using? That was more my point, I know the Valhalla is the better amp, but i am using what is considered "not a great match" impedance wise, so that's what I was surprised with the most, great sound and bass from a fairly low impedance set of cans.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

I just got my Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber today with the Bifrost stacked on top of my Asgard 2.  Is it ok to do that and is it normal that both of them feel as hot as a light bulb or as hot as hot coffee?


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> I just got my Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber today with the Bifrost stacked on top of my Asgard 2.  Is it ok to do that and is it normal that both of them feel as hot as a light bulb or as hot as hot coffee?


 
  I thought one stacked the Asgard above the Bifrost. And, yes, the Asgard runs plenty warm. I guess if you put the Bifrost below, then it may not be as warm as you feel it now. My $ 0.02.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> I thought one stacked the Asgard above the Bifrost. And, yes, the Asgard runs plenty warm. I guess if you put the Bifrost below, then it may not be as warm as you feel it now. My $ 0.02.


 
   
   
  Bifrost is supposed to be on bottom? 
   
  I just tried switching them around and it still feels the same, super hot.  I hope it don't damage anything by being so hot


----------



## huberd

It is normal for it to run hot since it runs in pure class A mode.


----------



## huberd

I have Beyeyerdynamic* *-DT-990 600 ohms and Denon D-2000 which are 25 ohms. I like the Beyerdynamic DT-990 better. The Valhalla is better with high impedance phones. They also have much smoother treble than the Denon D-2000 and a more tuneful bass. I hope this helps


----------



## TheChosen0ne

One more question, is it ok to put both of them on top of my computer case?  I got a small desk and have no room.  I have been putting it on my bed for the past 7 hours but I think it's a bad idea


----------



## ab initio

That should be fine. Just make sure that the Asgard is on top so it is open to the air and can cool most efficiently.
   
  cheers


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> That should be fine. Just make sure that the Asgard is on top so it is open to the air and can cool most efficiently.
> 
> cheers


 
  +1. I don't stack mine (keep them side by side) and hence don't often run into the problem of "too hot to touch"


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Man screw it, I think it's a bad idea to put the Asgard 2 and Bifrost on top of my computer case.  An earthquake might happen and if it does I gotta say goodbye to almost $1,000 worth of stuff.  Even though both of them are pretty hot after 7 hours of use, my bed was only warm not super hot so I guess I'll put them on my bed.  My room is small and I have a small desk with only room for my monitor and computer sitting on top of my desk.


----------



## NZheadcase

On the bed is fine as long as you have a board or slab of wood that it can go on. Asgard should be on top. A small plyboard should do. It'll give the stack better balance and sturdier foundation. Also good to have space underneath the bifrost.


----------



## bearFNF

Yep, definitely need a board under it for proper ventilation and Asgard needs to be on top.  Also make sure the rubber feet are on both to ensure air can get underneath and betweeen them..


----------



## gefski

thechosen0ne said:


> I just got my Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber today with the Bifrost stacked on top of my Asgard 2.  Is it ok to do that and is it normal that both of them feel as hot as a light bulb or as hot as hot coffee?




Using taller feet is a good idea, and if you stack them, put the amp on top. My Valhalla runs very warm and the Bifrost slightly warm.


----------



## jexby

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Using taller feet is a good idea, and if you stack them, put the amp on top. My Valhalla runs very warm and the Bifrost slightly warm.


 
   
  I have the BiFrost and Asgard2 on my hardwood desk, and found the "original / stock" rubber feet inadequate.
  so I grabbed 2 x 4packs  of
   Pangea Audio Pico Small Sorbothane Feet
   
  and they provide nice (1" approx) separation between desk-->BiFrost-->Asgard2  allowing for better airflow.
   
  I also leave the devices on 24x7 and have no worries with their relative heat output, as Jason has commented on many times.  Designed to run this hot due to chassis construction.


----------



## Tman5293

I'm joining the club:


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice rig there!


----------



## Rem0o

Quite neat.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Them there headphones looks like Transformers....Whatta they turn into anyhows?


----------



## Tman5293

jmsaxon69 said:


> Them there headphones looks like Transformers....Whatta they turn into anyhows?






They don't transform but they do fold up into a nice little ball:


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tman5293 said:


> They don't transform but they do fold up into a nice little ball:


 
  Haha! I'm ready for them to roll away!  Cool looking setup.  Thinking of going M&M for my office...


----------



## king8888

can asgard 2 drive HD800 well?


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





king8888 said:


> can asgard 2 drive HD800 well?


 

HD800 needs ~2.2Vrms to get _really_ loud. The Asgard 2 can give it 10Vrms. The rest is personal preference. Does that answer your question?
   
  Cheers


----------



## kothganesh

Folks,
   
  just got my Gungnir/Mjolnir and the balanced Moon Audio Silver Dragon HP cables. Source is my MBA through a BNC Halide to the Gungnir and from the Mojo to the LCD-3. First impressions, everything has opened up by a few orders of magnitude especially the high end (compared to the Bifrost/Lyr). The sound detail and stage is amazing. I am literally afraid to turn the volume past 9 o'clock. What can I say, the weekend awaits !


----------



## commtrd

Quote: 





kothganesh said:


> Folks,
> 
> just got my Gungnir/Mjolnir and the balanced Moon Audio Silver Dragon HP cables. Source is my MBA through a BNC Halide to the Gungnir and from the Mojo to the LCD-3. First impressions, everything has opened up by a few orders of magnitude especially the high end (compared to the Bifrost/Lyr). The sound detail and stage is amazing. I am literally afraid to turn the volume past 9 o'clock. What can I say, the weekend awaits !


 
  Don't be afraid! Be ready to receive stunning powerful emotional aural input! Even with the stock balanced cable the phones totally rock and the amp/dac provide clean accurate non-colored output to the LCD3s. I have a few hundred hours of listening in on my system and still amazed at the sound quality presented. The M/G stack plus the LCD3 is a really synergistic combination. For your first cranked-up session might start with Pink Floyd Animals and get ready for listening to everything you have to hear it again for the first time! Everything sounds awesome on this system. The amp and dac are not polite but rather very non-colored and the amp is very powerful to drive the 3s with authority (understatement). Instrumental placement, airiness, sound stage are all awesome. The amp and dac tend to offset some of the warmth of the LCD3s and the detailing of rendering is very very nice. Buying this system is definitely some of the best money I have ever spent on anything.


----------



## kothganesh

commtrd said:


> Don't be afraid! Be ready to receive stunning powerful emotional aural input! Even with the stock balanced cable the phones totally rock and the amp/dac provide clean accurate non-colored output to the LCD3s. I have a few hundred hours of listening in on my system and still amazed at the sound quality presented. The M/G stack plus the LCD3 is a really synergistic combination. For your first cranked-up session might start with Pink Floyd Animals and get ready for listening to everything you have to hear it again for the first time! Everything sounds awesome on this system. The amp and dac are not polite but rather very non-colored and the amp is very powerful to drive the 3s with authority (understatement). Instrumental placement, airiness, sound stage are all awesome. The amp and dac tend to offset some of the warmth of the LCD3s and the detailing of rendering is very very nice. Buying this system is definitely some of the best money I have ever spent on anything.



Wow, what a response ! You've got my adrenalin going, and after dinner now, it's going to be the Floyd alright! Thanks a ton


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Yo guys, I got the HD600s and DT880 250 ohm Pros, which phones should I get next? I want some new headphones that sound a lot different than those two that are $500 or less.  I recently got the Bifrost Uber and Asgard 2.  Also listen to all genres.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Yo guys, I got the HD600s and DT880 250 ohm Pros, which phones should I get next? I want some new headphones that sound a lot different than those two that are $500 or less.  I recently got the Bifrost Uber and Asgard 2.  Also listen to all genres.


 
  Some headphones that were trending on Head-Fi:
   
  Philips Fidelio X1 or AKG 702 Anniversary might be interesting. Or how about the HE-400?


----------



## jmsaxon69

I have the AKGK702-65 and the HE-400 and they are both fantastic! Just different flavors/presentations both phenomenal bargains in mind Annie's can be had for $350 and HE-400 for $400.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I have the AKGK702-65 and the HE-400 and they are both fantastic! Just different flavors/presentations both phenomenal bargains in mind Annie's can be had for $350 and HE-400 for $400.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Some headphones that were trending on Head-Fi:
> 
> Philips Fidelio X1 or AKG 702 Anniversary might be interesting. Or how about the HE-400?


 

 I'm interested in the A702 anniversary and HE-400, are both of them different enough than HD600 and DT880s 250 ohm pro that it's worth purchasing them?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Very KIND OF similar as far as AKG/Sennheiser and Beyer/HiFiMan. AKG and Sennheiser are a bit on the laid back and rich sounding and the Beyer and HiFiMan are more hyper detailed in the top end. I've owned DT990 and they were not for me, but the HE-400 is quite acceptable to my ears. The AKG are my faves all around though, very easy to listen to but still with incredible detail, just very smooth and accurate at the same time. I still need to spend time with HD650 though.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Very KIND OF similar as far as AKG/Sennheiser and Beyer/HiFiMan. AKG and Sennheiser are a bit on the laid back and rich sounding and the Beyer and HiFiMan are more hyper detailed in the top end. I've owned DT990 and they were not for me, but the HE-400 is quite acceptable to my ears. The AKG are my faves all around though, very easy to listen to but still with incredible detail, just very smooth and accurate at the same time. *I still need to spend time with HD650 though*.


 
  +1 they're more relaxed and takes a bit longer to truly appreciate what these do for ya.


----------



## deanorthk

I must admit I'm hesitating a lot, Gungnir, Audio GF NFB-9..
  I need a usb DAC, but no desktop format, that can be use as a soundcard for my hifi pc. the gungnir seems a perfect fitting, only downside is the color, all my gear are black


----------



## kothganesh

Quote: 





commtrd said:


> Don't be afraid! Be ready to receive stunning powerful emotional aural input! Even with the stock balanced cable the phones totally rock and the amp/dac provide clean accurate non-colored output to the LCD3s. I have a few hundred hours of listening in on my system and still amazed at the sound quality presented. The M/G stack plus the LCD3 is a really synergistic combination. For your first cranked-up session might start with Pink Floyd Animals and get ready for listening to everything you have to hear it again for the first time! Everything sounds awesome on this system. The amp and dac are not polite but rather very non-colored and the amp is very powerful to drive the 3s with authority (understatement). Instrumental placement, airiness, sound stage are all awesome. *The amp and dac tend to offset some of the warmth of the LCD3s and the detailing of rendering is very very nice. Buying this system is definitely some of the best money I have ever spent on anything.*


 
  Commtrd,
   
  you hit the proverbial nail on the head. The M/G stack is powerful and stunning alright. It does offset some of the warmth of the LCD3s and, as I commented on another thread, the stack makes the HE 500 come alive in a stunningly delightful way. Man, now I am spoilt for choices on the planar HPs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. At this point in time, the M/G stack is my end game at home. I have since moved the Bifrost/Lyr combo to my office.


----------



## tuna47

I find the HE 500 way superior to both the he400 or Akg 702 I would sell both and get the 500s


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I find the HE 500 way superior to both the he400 or Akg 702 I would sell both and get the 500s


 
  Are you talking to "theChosenOne"
   
  Because he specifically asked for headphones under $500.
   
  Otherwise, yes! the HE-500 is indeed very nice as I should know.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Are you talking to "theChosenOne"
> 
> Because he specifically asked for headphones under $500.
> 
> Otherwise, yes! the HE-500 is indeed very nice as I should know.


 
   
  If that's worth getting then I could save up money and get em


----------



## tuna47

If you can I would for me end of game with good amp, but it depends on your finances


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> If that's worth getting then I could save up money and get em


 
  What?!!!
   
  This is new info for us. Then YES! definitely save up for the HE-500 beause they will spank anything under $700. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (might have to upgrade to the Lyr too, but Asgard will be fine until that point) Or if you really can save, then get the Schiit Rag of course.


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> What?!!!
> 
> This is new info for us. Then YES! definitely save up for the HE-500 beause they will spank anything under $700.
> 
> ...


 

 The Asgard has sufficient voltage swing to drive HE-500's to ear damaging levels---like seriously ear thumping volume with headroom to spare.... like in excess of 120dB SPL
   
  The only reason to get a Lyr would be for a slight change in tone due to the added harmonic distortion from the tube stage, and then ability to swap out tubes for the coloring that best suits your taste 
   
  Cheers!


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> The Asgard has sufficient voltage swing to drive HE-500's to ear damaging levels---like seriously ear thumping volume with headroom to spare.... like in excess of 120dB SPL
> 
> The only reason to get a Lyr would be for a slight change in tone due to the added harmonic distortion from the tube stage, and then ability to swap out tubes for the coloring that best suits your taste
> 
> Cheers!


 
  You're pretty funny. Thanks for the new info I had no idea such flawless arguments were out there. Can you recommend me a amp that can do exactly 85 decibles for the HE-500? I don't believe in any headroom and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand science and math. I listen around 75db~85db max so I don't need anything more than that. Oh wait... I think my ipod might do this. Problem solved! Selling all my useless gear now. Just awesome. It's definitely loud enough, which is the whole point of amps, to make things loud.
   
  *additionally I'm surprised people like Jason who have degrees in engineering and decades of experience designing high-end amps doesn't know this. It's a simple matter of plugging in numbers into a pre made formula. I could teach a dumb monkey to do this. The Asgard is such a overkill what's the point it? or of the Lyr? and Rag?  Just to introduce more distortion? Geeze. Ipod is loud enough for everything.


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> You're pretty funny. Thanks for the new info I had no idea such flawless arguments were out there. Can you recommend me a amp that can do exactly 85 decibles for the HE-500? I don't believe in any headroom and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand science and math. I listen around 75db~85db max so I don't need anything more than that. Oh wait... I think my ipod might do this. Problem solved! Selling all my useless gear now. Just awesome. It's definitely loud enough, which is the whole point of amps, to make things loud.


 

 Hey, don't let facts get in the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But seriously, I'm just trying to help out. The Asgard packs sufficient punch to take the HE-500 beyond painful volumes. The Lyr certainly has enough to drive the HE-500 as well, I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is that if you have an Asgard, then you can already drive the HE-500 to ear damaging levels. Therefore, loudness is _not _the reason to get a Lyr. Lyr would offer a different, customizable, sonic quality, and that is a perfectly valid reason to get one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you were talking about the HE-6's, the story would be different. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Why don't you look at what I've got? I've got a Modi (1.5V rms i.e. +3.5 dB)+ Magni (14dB gain) and HD280pro (114dB/V sensitivity) and these are _loud_ at the full software volume and the minimal pot setting that is still channel balanced (about 9 o'clock ~ -35dB). If you add it up, that's 114+14+3.5 - 35dB = 96.5 dB rms at the minimum pot setting and at full software volume.
  If you wanna be practical about it, I use replay gain which sets the rms volume at -14dB from full scale. That gives me a _minimum_ listening volume of 82.5 rms, which is right at the edge of hearing loss for long term exposure. I'm not asking anybody to listen at 85dB rms MAX. It's totally fine to have an amp that can get _too loud_. The only thing is, now you have no useable range on your volume pot, or you have to settle for using software volume control to get a reasonable useful range out of your volume pot.
   
  If you've got a 2V DAC (ie Bifrost ie +6dB)), an Asgard( +16.5dB), and an HE500 (102dB/V), you'll get 126.5dB SPL at max volume. Add replay gain and you're sill in excess of 112 dB SPL rms! 
   
  I stand by the fact that the Asgard can get HE-500's to be really loud.
   
  Cheers!
   
  PS. check the math for the Asgard configuration and see if you can identify a limitation---there's a subtlety there.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> I stand by the fact that the Asgard can get HE-500's to be really loud.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  Oh no doubt. It gets crazy loud with the Magni as well, and also is loud enough on an ipod. I guess my point is that you need to start experiencing higher end amps because once you do you'll put away your numbers and wonder why you're keep hearing improvements. You'll one day realize it's not about loudness, which I know sounds odd to you because you've been zombie brainwashed by psuedo science and engineering by that moron who is banned and operates his own blog. Having almost infinite headroom is nice/wanted because the amp operates at close to idle and is the most linear as possible. You want overkill headroom if at all possible, especially with planars. I think those numbers and forumlas are for ideal conditions and does not accurately simiulate how the driver will react under a lot of stress/load when actual complex music is playing instead of test tone bursts to collect data.
   
  *also consider that the HE-500 drivers have been measured as low as 86 decible efficiency instead of 89 and 60 ohms insteadof 38ohms, depending on product variation. So yeah having insane headroom is nice and never unnecessary for planars. The new Schiit Rag will be putting out 9+ Watts into 50 ohms and I'm excited about that. According to your monkey formulas not even 1/100th of this is necessary, so those formulas are not giving us a complete picture. There are other variables to driving headphones.
   
  *Also to be clear I think the Magni does an admirable job of driving the HE-500. Not the best but certainly more than ok and a great value of an amp.


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Oh no doubt. It gets crazy loud with the Magni as well, and also is loud enough on an ipod.


 
  Look, I'm not trying to tell anybody they need to use iPods (i tend to dislike apple, anyway) because there is a lot more to the story than loudness. But the example of the iPod is a particularly weak one because the iPod only spits out 1.5 Vrms or so, which---according to these formulas that you are discrediting---is not enough to get the HE-500's to 110dBSPL
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> You'll one day realize it's not about loudness,


 
   
  This is_ exactly the point I'm trying to make_.
  Quote: 





ab initio said:


> loudness is _not _the reason to get a Lyr. Lyr would offer a different, customizable, sonic quality, and that is a perfectly valid reason to get one.


 
   
  Also, about this:
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> You'll one day realize it's not about loudness, which I know sounds odd to you because you've been zombie brainwashed by psuedo science and engineering by that moron who is banned and operates his own blog.


 
  Please don't do this, I'm not calling you names.
   
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Having almost infinite headroom is nice/wanted because the amp operates at close to idle and is the most linear as possible. You want overkill headroom if at all possible, especially with planars. I think those numbers and forumlas are for ideal conditions and does not accurately simiulate how the driver will react under a lot of stress/load when actual complex music is playing instead of test tone bursts to collect data.


 
  I'm arguing that Asgard still has headroom for the HE-500 at any reasonable listening volume. That's the point of the target 110dB SPL---that represents a really really loud transient
   
  I haven't said anything of test signals, simulations, or anything else. However, I can tell you than every _HiFi_ audio amplifier or driver strives to respond linearly to the input signal---if it doesn't response linearly, then it is distorting the audio. For this application, see Hi-Fi vs Pro-Audio. What linearity means is that those tone burst tests that you are bashing are an excellent diagnostic of the Hi-Fi audio system if they are done carefully.
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> *also consider that the HE-500 drivers have been measured as low as 86 decible efficiency instead of 89 and 60 ohms insteadof 38ohms, depending on product variation. So yeah having insane headroom is nice and never unnecessary for planars.


 
  This is the first good point that you've made 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Product variation is certainly something to keep in mind! However, I'd like to point out that the Asgard can drive the same power into 50hms as it can into 32Ohms (see the numerous asgard links above). What this means is that the asgard is current limited at lower impedance, and as the impedance of the headphone it is driving increases, so will the available voltage swing increase. The end result is that the less efficient headphone actually becomes a bit easier load for the voltage-capable Asgard
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> The new Schiit Rag will be putting out 9+ Watts into 50 ohms and I'm excited about that. According to your monkey formulas not even 1/100th of this is necessary, so those formulas are not giving us a complete picture. There are other variables to driving headphones.


 
  Let me reiterate that nowhere am I attacking high power output amps. Also let me reiterate that I personally use an amplifier that has way more gain than I could ever use with my headphones. I am not trying to insult anybody with an overpowered amplifier. I was calculating the power and hypothetical sound pressure levels for a given headphone-amplifier combination to show that _loudness is not the limiting factor_. I have very clearly stated that the merits for getting a different amplifier (Lyr, Mjolnir, or whatnot) is because of characteristics other than loudness. Let me remind you:
  Quote: 





ab initio said:


> The only reason to get a Lyr would be for a slight change in tone due to the added harmonic distortion from the tube stage, and then ability to swap out tubes for the coloring that best suits your taste


 
  In the case of Lyr, you would sacrifice the noise floor (-92dB with Lyr vs the -102dB with Asgard) for tube sound. (Notice we're not discussing the Valhalla because it lacks the current to sufficiently drive the HE-500)
  In the case of Mjolnir, you get better noise floor than the Asgard (-104dB) and better frequency response and better distortion performance. I'm not arguing about needing more/less loudness. I'm only pointing out that the reason to get different amps lies in their tonal characteristics. If you prefer the tube sound of Lyr then you by all means should use Lyr. But it is dishonest to tell somebody that they *need* to upgrade to Lyr in order to use their HE-500s because there is no evidence that says their Asgard cannot! The Asgard will drive the HE-500s and it will sound like Asgard and it is capable if getting more than loud enough.
   
   
  Quote: 





m-13 said:


> *Also to be clear I think the Magni does an admirable job of driving the HE-500. Not the best but certainly more than ok and a great value of an amp.


 

 I'm curious how the Magni will pair up with the Paradox headphones I have on order! I'm quite anxious to try them out. I think the T50rp's are a little easier to push than the HE-500, so I've got high hopes that it will make a nice paring! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I guess the whole point of this in the first place was to point out that the Asgard is capable. I'm not trying to bash anybody's Lyr. I'll be honest, if I have a wad of change to drop on a new headphone amp, the Lyr would be number one on my list so that I could try tubes and tube swapping since I already have a solid state.
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## noobandroid

just ordered magni from schiit site yesterday and they posted it out on the same day~ wow! talk about efficiency
   
  so, since I'm from Malaysia, it could take weeks to reach, haha
   
  oh well, just thinking, will the Magni be an overkill for my custom one pro? lol, or maybe get the best sound out of it?


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> Look, I'm not trying to tell anybody they need to use iPods (i tend to dislike apple, anyway) because there is a lot more to the story than loudness. But the example of the iPod is a particularly weak one because the iPod only spits out 1.5 Vrms or so, which---according to these formulas that you are discrediting---is not enough to get the HE-500's to 110dBSPL
> 
> 
> This is_ exactly the point I'm trying to make_.
> ...


 
  Wow ab......you are sure a patient and agreeable person. Not sure I could keep my calm answering to all the stuff that was thrown at you. Well done!


----------



## M-13

ab inito simple question: why is 110db SPL necessary? Who came up with this figure as the ideal amount of headroom? Where is the science behind this 110 number? Why not 111? or 121? Who's to say when benefits from headroom stop at 110? What if I say the benefits of headroom continue till 140db SPL? or 150db SPL?
   
  Ipod will get me to the desired volume according to your formula. No headroom of course but to a normal listening volume. I''m only giving this as an example because your formula would indicate there isn't anything more necessary than to reach certain SPLs, which just isn't true. There's more to driving a headphone then just reaching loud db SPL.
   
  For the record I did not call you names I said you're likely "zombie brain washed". The moron I was referring to is obviously not you unless you operate your own blog and have been banned from Head-Fi previously.
   
  Edit:
   
  So the other thing I find objectionable from your long answer is:
   
  "But it is dishonest to tell somebody that they *need* to upgrade to Lyr in order to use their HE-500s because there is no evidence that says their Asgard cannot! The Asgard will drive the HE-500s and it will sound like Asgard and it is capable if getting more than loud enough."
   
  My answer:
   
  Dishonest? Seriously? Have you heard the Lyr? It's not about noise floor and SPLs and tube tonality changes. The Lyr flat out sounds better than the Asgard on the HE-500. The proof is in the hearing, not in crunching numbers. I gave my views based on personal experience. You gave your views based on no experience and just pure number crunching. The real world sometimes doesn't act in the way your think it should. This is why I said you're zombie brain washed because you feel comfortable dissmissing the experiences of others based on no experience using just data. *How do you know all relevant factors have been measured and quantified?* You really don't if you're honest with yourself. Becuase you only know how to run  numbers they give you and don't know what else can be measured.


----------



## M-13

All this talk reminds me of a quote from Happy Camper:
   
*If it sounds bad but measures good, then it's bad. If it sound good but measures bad you measured the wrong thing.*
   
  I know you have good intentionas Ab inito and you feel so smart about saving yourself $200 because people who buy the Lyr are getting a worse performing amp so they can satisfy their weird desire for distortion and coloration from tubes. But this world view is not true. The Lyr can be even more neutral/cleaner sounding while extracting more details than the Asgard 2. Some of the best amps in the world are built with tubes. Like the EC Balancing Act, and Blue Hawaii. People are not just paying for coloration and distortion. Most of these owners place neutrality as a high prority if not the highest priority. They're paying for superior performance simple as that. So yeah man go out a listen to more gear and less time crunching numbers.


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> All this talk reminds me of a quote from Happy Camper:.


 
  Haha.
   
  "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing." - Daniel R. von Recklinghausen, former Chief Research Engineer, H.H. Scott


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Haha.
> 
> "If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad; if it measures bad and sounds good, you have measured the wrong thing." - Daniel R. von Recklinghausen, former Chief Research Engineer, H.H. Scott


 
  Ah! Nice catch my friend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 touche


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> ab inito simple question: why is 110db SPL necessary? Who came up with this figure as the ideal amount of headroom? Where is the science behind this 110 number? Why not 111? or 121? Who's to say when benefits from headroom stop at 110? What if I say the benefits of headroom continue till 140db SPL? or 150db SPL?
> 
> Ipod will get me to the desired volume according to your formula. No headroom of course but to a normal listening volume. I''m only giving this as an example because your formula would indicate there isn't anything more necessary than to reach certain SPLs, which just isn't true. There's more to driving a headphone then just reaching loud db SPL.
> 
> For the record I did not call you names I said your likely "zombie brain washed". The moron I was referring to is obviously not you unless you operate your own blog and have been banned from Head-Fi previously.


 
   
  110dB as a target SPL is a great question. It's just a reference point, and you are absolutely right that 111 vs 110 is arbitrary. The fact is, when you want to do systematic comparisons, you have to choose a reference and stick to it. In this case, xnor choose 110dB SPL as a target SPL and what you should probably do is ask that questions here, but I can summarize in my own words why this is a pretty reasonable target loudness.
   
  First off, 110dB is _loud_. Like chainsaw loud. This is really really really bad for your hearing to experience 110dB for a duration of time. The point of having the ability to reach 110dB is for dramatic effect during _transients _(for example, passages like this). Sure, I guess you could go a little louder, or perhaps you don't like blowing your eardrums into your skull.
   
  There's practical limits to how loud a headphone can go and if you try to go louder, then the headphones distort until finally the magic smoke can escape.
  140 and 150dB SPL are at a ridiculous level and is well beyond hearing damage.

 As far as headroom goes, the whole point is to have linear output. As you reach the limits of  your amplifier, you will begin to clip your signal, which adds distortion. The headroom that is enough is that which allows any permissible input signal to result in an output signal that is within the linear operating range of the amplifier. For a given amplifier, if you look at total harmonic distortion vs signal input amplitude, you can see that there is a certain point where the distortion explodes---this is where the amplifier is clipping. Every amplifier will be different, and the point of clipping will depend on the amplifier and on the load it is driving.
   
  For example, in the case of the asgard, the amplifier will run out of available current before voltage---this is what i was alluding to in my comment:
  Quote: 





ab initio said:


> PS. check the math for the Asgard configuration and see if you can identify a limitation---there's a subtlety there.


 

 This is evidenced by Asgard being able to drive 1W into 50Ohm and still only 1W into 32Ohm. The maximum voltage swing that the Asgard is capable isn't available at the lowest impedance because the amplifier will "run out of available current" before it reaches peak voltage. Note, that 1W into 32Ohms (similar to 34Ohm HE-500) is still way more than what we estimated we need for 110dB SPL. We estimate that the HE-500 needs about 2.5V to get to the excessively loud 110dB SPL level. Asgard can swing 5.7Vrms across (5.7Vrms = sqrt(1W * 32Ohm) ) the HE-500.
   
  What does this mean? It means that you need 2.5 Vrms to get to freaking loud volume and the Asgard can deliver more than twice that. On top of that, 110dB SPL is supposed to represent the absolute maximum transient you would want to experience---it gives you headroom for your music which should have rms levels closer to 90dB rms (which is still hearing-damaging when listened to for any length of time!!!) that's 20dB of head room built into our reference. So what voltages does our amp need to spit out on average when the average SPL is 90dB? well, it's 20dB below 2.5Vrms ....

```
Vtypical = 2.5Vrms@110dB SPL * 10^( (90dB target - 110dB reference)/20 ) = 2.5Vrms * 0.1 = 0.25 Vrms
```
   
  So....
  Asgard can swing 5.7Vrms and the typical, loud-listening voltage is 0.25 Vrms and we would like peak transients to reach 2.5Vrms
  that means the 20dB headroom has > 6dB headroom 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This is only applicable to music that has high dynamic range---- like 20dB of it. What's pop music typically these days? like 6dB? Classical and jazz recordings are probably the places where 20dB headroom is required. (someone care to chime in on this?)
   
  Note, the iPod can reach the 0.25 Vrms easily, so yes, it gets the headphones loud-on-average. But the iPod lacks the headroom for dynamics that the Asgard provides, which means that the Asgard is going to provide an enriched listening experience over the iPod, even though both get "loud"---the iPod will be more compressed.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## tuna47

Need some help have the he500 the lyr and I am using the Odac would the bifrost USB be a major upgrade in sound need advice


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need some help have the he500 the lyr and I am using the Odac would the bifrost USB be a major upgrade in sound need advice


 

 Since you are double posting, so will I:
   
  Dude, it's a $150 portable DAC, what do you think? It will smoke it, be realistic (not the Radio Shack kind)
   
  Stereophile reviews the Bifrost this month and called it the best value per dollar he has EVER reviewed, or something to that effect...
   
  You will see god


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need some help have the he500 the lyr and I am using the Odac would the bifrost USB be a major upgrade in sound need advice


 
  Yes Tuna, as jmsaxon69 says your Odac will be "smoked" LOL. Evaluating DACs are one of the harder things to do in this hobby, but once you "get it" you'll hear the differences loud and clear. I think you'll be happy with the Uber-Frost.
   
  *jmsaxon you must remember to turn off your "invisibility mode" so people like Tuna stop ignoring you. LOL


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> All this talk reminds me of a quote from Happy Camper:
> 
> *If it sounds bad but measures good, then it's bad. If it sound good but measures bad you measured the wrong thing.*
> 
> I know you have good intentionas Ab inito and you feel so smart about saving yourself $200 because people who buy the Lyr are getting a worse performing amp so they can satisfy their weird desire for distortion and coloration from tubes. But this world view is not true. The Lyr can be even more neutral/cleaner sounding while extracting more details than the Asgard 2. Some of the best amps in the world are built with tubes. Like the EC Balancing Act, and Blue Hawaii. People are not just paying for coloration and distortion. Most of these owners place neutrality as a high prority if not the highest priority. They're paying for superior performance simple as that. So yeah man go out a listen to more gear and less time crunching numbers.


 

 This has nothing to do with me. You are clearly misinterpreting my posts. I'm trying to demonstrate the fundamental principles at play and provide examples for the types of quick checks people can do to see if Headphone A can be drive by amplifier B. Nowhere have I made any claims about one thing being _better_ than another. I've stated the most accurate information available about the products in question and proceeded with a fundamentally sound analysis to determine whether or not the Asgard can drive the HE-500 to sufficient levels.
   
  You can prefer the Lyr. I've never ruled out that possibility. I've stated my own desire to own a Lyr. I cannot afford one because my stipend doesn't allow me to. I do not come from a wealthy background. I have looked to find the best audio equipment that I can afford. It is unfair for you to demand that I have to purchase thousands of dollars in high end audio equipment. I cannot.
   
  If you look elsewhere on the forums, I have stated that tube amplifiers are capable of exceptional performance and measureables. This has nothing to do with owners of high end tube amplifiers. This has nothing to do with owners of low end amplifiers. This has everything to do with the fact that the Asgard will drive the HE-500 like an Asgard.
   
  You told TheChoosenOne that if he/she got the HE-500 that they might have to upgrade to the Lyr.* I was just commenting that the HE-500s fit within the Asgard's operational envelop and that the Lyr is optional according to theChoosenOne's taste.* This is the only thing that you should have taken from my original post. I haven't seen anybody come out and say that the HE-500 doesn't work with the Asgard.
   
  If this is incorrect, then I hope that Jason or Mike from Schiit will correct me. There are the only ones who have knowledge of the Asgard beyond what's reported on the Schiit website or subjective impressions.
   
   
By the way, the Schiit website specifically says that the Asgard works well with the HE-500.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## M-13

Hey ab initio, Let's just stop. I think both of us have made our points and people can decide on their own now.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Yes Tuna, as jmsaxon69 says your Odac will be "smoked" LOL. Evaluating DACs are one of the harder things to do in this hobby, but once you "get it" you'll hear the differences loud and clear. I think you'll be happy with the Uber-Frost.
> 
> *jmsaxon you must remember to turn off your "invisibility mode" so people like Tuna stop ignoring you. LOL


 
  You made me laugh, cheers to you as well!


----------



## bearFNF

Arguing for the sake of arguing??  I just started skipping the novels.  Will wait for the movie.
  Kinda reminded me of an old married couple I knew they just kept at it for no apparent reason....
   
  Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Need some help have the he500 the lyr and I am using the Odac would the bifrost USB be a major upgrade in sound need advice


 
  And yes the Bifrost is a very good option, works exceptionally well.


----------



## MickeyVee

From Schiit:
   
*Does Lyr sound better than Asgard and Valhalla?*
Does a bear schiit in the . . . nevermind. Short answer: yes. It’s much more dynamic than either amp, and will drive inefficient headphones with power and finesse. Until you’ve heard a headphone amp that’ll do 40V p-p into 32 ohms, you haven’t lived. Or, well, maybe you _have_ lived, maybe you’ve scaled Everest solo, maybe you wrestled a grizzly bear, maybe you’ve paid $20 million to be a space tourist . . . but you still haven’t heard our 6-watt headphone amp!
    
  HE500 & Lyr.. awesome combo!! (even though I've moved on from the HE500)
   
   
  Quote:


ab initio said:


> You told TheChoosenOne that if he/she got the HE-500 that they might have to upgrade to the Lyr.* I was just commenting that the HE-500s fit within the Asgard's operational envelop and that the Lyr is optional according to theChoosenOne's taste.* This is the only thing that you should have taken from my original post. I haven't seen anybody come out and say that the HE-500 doesn't work with the Asgard.
> 
> If this is incorrect, then I hope that Jason or Mike from Schiit will correct me. There are the only ones who have knowledge of the Asgard beyond what's reported on the Schiit website or subjective impressions.
> 
> ...


----------



## noobandroid

in this chain in my upcoming magni, which part you think is the weak spot, apart from the headphone / IEM ?
   
  PC - DACPort LX - Magni - COP / UM Miracle / RE-400 / Senn HD202 ii / Goldring DR-150 + custom cable 
   
  any parts that i need change? cause the COP is what Im loving right now


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Sorry guys, I only skimmed through the posts within the last couple pages...What I got from it is Asgard and I'm assuming Asgard 2 too, which I have, would make the HE-500s loud but would the sound quality be super amazing too without distortions and all that stuff?  I can go deaf if I put the volume all the way up with the horrible ipod earphones and listening to music on my computer or ipod/iphone but the sound quality is just horrific.  Also one more question, is the Bifrost Uber a good choice for the HE-500 or should I also save up for a more expensive, better dac?  I recently bought the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber about 2 weeks ago and kind of disappointed I might possibly need to upgrade them.  I'm thinking about getting the HE-500 within a couple months and I will only buy it brand new.


----------



## UmustBKidn

[Changing Subject]
  So, um, yeah. I just discovered that my Modi sounds awesome driving a Bravo V2 with a vintage Mullard tube in it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Someday I'll have enough money to try one of these other awesome setups you guys are talking about.
   
  So, how 'bout them Dodgers?


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Sorry guys, I only skimmed through the posts within the last couple pages...What I got from it is Asgard and I'm assuming Asgard 2 too, which I have, would make the HE-500s loud but would the sound quality be super amazing too without distortions and all that stuff?  I can go deaf if I put the volume all the way up with the horrible ipod earphones and listening to music on my computer or ipod/iphone but the sound quality is just horrific.  Also one more question, is the Bifrost Uber a good choice for the HE-500 or should I also save up for a more expensive, better dac?  I recently bought the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber about 2 weeks ago and kind of disappointed I might possibly need to upgrade them.  I'm thinking about getting the HE-500 within a couple months and I will only buy it brand new.


 

 How do you like the Asgard with the headphones you have now? Chances are, if you like the amp with what you have now, you will like it with the He-500s. I think everybody agrees that the Asgard will beat the pants off of iPods 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you want Schiit's opinion:
  Quote: 





> *Will Asgard 2 drive orthos?*
> Many of them, yes. The HiFiMan HE400 and HE500 do well with Asgard 2, as well as the Audeze LCD2. The popular Fostex T50RP mods (Mad Dog, Paradox) are also well-served by Asgard 2.


 
   
  That said, people also like other pairings with the the HE-500 as well, such as the Lyr.
   
  I think everybody will agree that the order of biggest difference in audibility is (assuming you have a good quality source)
  1) headphones make the biggest difference in sound
  2) then amplifiers
  3) then DACs
   
  Try your headphones with what you got, and make a decision from there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I find the HE 500 way superior to both the he400 or Akg 702 I would sell both and get the 500s


 
  i find the he500 not worth 800 bucks soundwise comparing to the 250 bucks akg k702. honest personal opinion.


----------



## Taliesin

Anyone tried either the HD800 or T1 with the lyr?


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Sorry guys, I only skimmed through the posts within the last couple pages...What I got from it is Asgard and I'm assuming Asgard 2 too, which I have, would make the HE-500s loud but would the sound quality be super amazing too without distortions and all that stuff?  I can go deaf if I put the volume all the way up with the horrible ipod earphones and listening to music on my computer or ipod/iphone but the sound quality is just horrific.  Also one more question, is the Bifrost Uber a good choice for the HE-500 or should I also save up for a more expensive, better dac?  I recently *bought the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber about 2 weeks ago and kind of disappointed I might possibly need to upgrade them*.  I'm thinking about getting the HE-500 within a couple months and I will only buy it brand new.


 

 How so? What do you find lacking? If the step up from the E09K/E17 isn't big enough for you, then I'd argue you either need to go balanced (which costs significantly more) or just get different cans.


----------



## Greed

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i find the he500 not worth 800 bucks soundwise comparing to the 250 bucks akg k702. honest personal opinion.


 
   
  If you paid 800 for your HE500 in 2013, you sir got ripped off.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Sorry guys, I only skimmed through the posts within the last couple pages...What I got from it is Asgard and I'm assuming Asgard 2 too, which I have, would make the HE-500s loud but would the sound quality be super amazing too without distortions and all that stuff?  I can go deaf if I put the volume all the way up with the horrible ipod earphones and listening to music on my computer or ipod/iphone but the sound quality is just horrific.  Also one more question, is the Bifrost Uber a good choice for the HE-500 or should I also save up for a more expensive, better dac?  I recently bought the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber about 2 weeks ago and kind of disappointed I might possibly need to upgrade them.  I'm thinking about getting the HE-500 within a couple months and I will only buy it brand new.


 
  Just get the Lyr and roll in some nice tubes. You'll hear a big change. Now if this wasn't the Schiit thread I would recommend you try the Emotiva from speaker taps, or other vintage receivers. If you can stretch your budget you can also get the Schiit Mjolnir. If you don't like the HE-500 from the Mjolnir or from speaker taps then the sound is just not for you. Asgard/Magni under power the HE-500 IMO, which gives them flabby bass and low dynmaic range in both the treble/bass ends of the frequency spectrum. It sounds slow/syurpy/boring instead of fast/nimble/explosive like it should from speaker taps or a more powerful amp.
   
  As for DACs, you can go from the Uber Bifrost to the Concero, or if you can stretch you budget you can do the Matrix X-Sabre/Anedio D2. But IMO I think you need a more powerful amp first to realize the full potential of your HE-500.
   
  As always YMMV, IMHO, etc,etc...
   
  *Don't even bother responding to this ab initio unless you want to go another couple of pages of useless arguments with me like we did yesterday.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





greed said:


> If you paid 800 for your HE500 in 2013, you sir got ripped off.


 
  +1 LOL
   
  Although I did pay $899 for my very first HE-500. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (was still worth it btw)


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i find the he500 not worth 800 bucks soundwise comparing to the 250 bucks akg k702. honest personal opinion.


 
  Your personal opinion is funny to me because I actually owned the AKG 702. And in my personal opinion your opinion is completely insane. Not sure what you were driving/sourcing your HE-500 with because it was your chain or more likely you had a broken HE-500.


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Just get the Lyr and roll in some nice tubes. You'll hear a big change. Now if this wasn't the Schiit thread I would recommend you try the Emotiva from speaker taps, or other vintage receivers. If you can stretch your budget you can also get the Schiit Mjolnir. If you don't like the HE-500 from the Mjolnir or from speaker taps then the sound is just not for you. Asgard/Magni under power the HE-500 IMO, which gives them flabby bass and low dynmaic range in both the treble/bass ends of the frequency spectrum. It sounds slow/syurpy/boring instead of fast/nimble/explosive like it should from speaker taps or a more powerful amp.
> 
> As for DACs, you can go from the Uber Bifrost to the Concero, or if you can stretch you budget you can do the Matrix X-Sabre/Anedio D2. But IMO I think you need a more powerful amp first to realize the full potential of your HE-500.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Relax man, people are allowed to have a different opinion. I'm totally okay with that.




   
  Cheers!


----------



## tuna47

Overwerk you seem not to like your lyr your tubes or your he500
Why are in in this hobby maybe try fishing


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> Relax man, people are allowed to have a different opinion. I'm totally okay with that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Calm now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Overwerk you seem not to like your lyr your tubes or your he500
> Why are in in this hobby maybe try fishing


 
  For Tuna?


----------



## tuna47

I am calm just wanted to know what you like about the hobby


----------



## walls

I just wanted to join the UNITED thread. LOL!

I do like my new Schiit.


----------



## jexby

Please don't fragment the topic of this thread.
  this is about Schiit Owners, not "why I like head-fi hobby" questions.
  take it to PM.
   
  Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I am calm just wanted to know what you like about the hobby


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





walls said:


> I just wanted to join the UNITED thread. LOL!
> 
> I do like my new Schiit.


 
   
  Welcome walls. I think you'll find unanimous enthusiasm from all of the Schiit owners here!
   
  You'll find that everyone here happens to think their Schiit don't stink 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  Cheers


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





greed said:


> If you paid 800 for your HE500 in 2013, you sir got ripped off.


 
  sorry i paid 700 in 2012, mistake, my bad


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Your personal opinion is funny to me because I actually owned the AKG 702. And in my personal opinion your opinion is completely insane. Not sure what you were driving/sourcing your HE-500 with because it was your chain or more likely you had a broken HE-500.


 
  the hostility and arrogance and ignorance chills my bones


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Overwerk you seem not to like your lyr your tubes or your he500
> Why are in in this hobby maybe try fishing


 
  stop trolling and listen to some music, maybe your soul will elevate


----------



## Overwerk

i'm one of the first to buy he500 approx within a day David Mahler posted THE THREAD, and everywhere I go HE500 fanboys spit on my face about my personal honest opinion about he500. you can say all you want, and I will be glad to discuss, but if you start flaming, it just downgrade your IQ and EQ at least perceived by others, and adds nothing to your argument that he500 is not what I perceive it to be. I don't get why people who like gears have to furiously try to ban others out of speaking against it. preference is a personal thing, and I'd kill myself if everyone likes the same thing
   
  Allow expression, end repression. I don't want assimilation, I want diversity, and I shall be that, not because I intentionally want it, but because I am appalled by the *unanimity most everywhere I go on the internet, a false sense of harmony and joyful agreement and politeness covering the degradation of personal taste and independent spirit and opinion and judgement*
   
  i had the lyr and bifrost since 2011, II bought magni and modi as soon as they came out, I expect nothing hostile from this thread, it would be kind of stupid to since I consider myself a tried and true believer of Schiit, the act of supporting Schiit is one of matter of faith and ideal, without further elaboration since I am tired of elaborating it. I have been rolling 20 some pairs of tubes to upgrade the sound. I have owned more than 20 mid fi cans and current have a dozen.  The usual 9 yards of bashing on people's system defect is appalling every time it comes out towards myself. 
   
  it's interesting and tried and true and tiring to see all the trolling comments always steer away from the topic of the trolled comment, here in this case my point was the price tag of he500 compared to k702 is insane, I don' t have the obligation to explain my system because I have no obligation to feed to that necessity which is maintained by trolls who judge people's opinion validity on their system instead of their originality and objectivity of their opinion and perception.
   
  I did not ask for flaming but I am not going to just not throw my opinion out there. To ask me to write a thesis on why I said what I said would be insane.


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Just get the Lyr and roll in some nice tubes. You'll hear a big change. Now if this wasn't the Schiit thread I would recommend you try the Emotiva from speaker taps, or other vintage receivers. If you can stretch your budget you can also get the Schiit Mjolnir. If you don't like the HE-500 from the Mjolnir or from speaker taps then the sound is just not for you. Asgard/Magni under power the HE-500 IMO, which gives them flabby bass and low dynmaic range in both the treble/bass ends of the frequency spectrum. It sounds slow/syurpy/boring instead of fast/nimble/explosive like it should from speaker taps or a more powerful amp.
> 
> As for DACs, you can go from the Uber Bifrost to the Concero, or if you can stretch you budget you can do the Matrix X-Sabre/Anedio D2. But IMO I think you need a more powerful amp first to realize the full potential of your HE-500.
> 
> ...


 
  nobody needs to have a brain to know you are one of the guys that regard yourself some sort of known fanboy of schiit, I honestly identify myself apart from your kind. albeit your seemingly enthusiasm for schiit you are taking it too far I'd never bash on people's taste I'd leave them be with their own schit.
   
  to be honest you should be ashamed you parade yourself a schiit expert when you bash on my stance that k702 > he500, to me that's as if I am to say Schiit Lyr> any big name 1k amp, I'd like to see how you react to that , Schiit to me is all about the facepalm of hi end audio gear capitalizing on their prestige to rob people's money, that's what they said in the beginning. Jason has not been very pronounce on this agenda, but he's doing it just right, especially on the delayed but finally carried out and seriously underrated Magni Modi stack even with the existing user base. The price tag of his ultimate flagship stack is way below some of the ultimate stuff others make that goes up to 4-5k each, which to me is just bollocks and I'd love to see people reporting the Schiit stack smoking those.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





noobandroid said:


> in this chain in my upcoming magni, which part you think is the weak spot, apart from the headphone / IEM ?
> 
> PC - DACPort LX - Magni - COP / UM Miracle / RE-400 / Senn HD202 ii / Goldring DR-150 + custom cable
> 
> any parts that i need change? cause the COP is what Im loving right now


 
  I would say upgrade the magni to an Asgard 2 the gain switch and the pre-amp and the power boost would help those phones sing.
  Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Sorry guys, I only skimmed through the posts within the last couple pages...What I got from it is Asgard and I'm assuming Asgard 2 too, which I have, would make the HE-500s loud but would the sound quality be super amazing too without distortions and all that stuff?  I can go deaf if I put the volume all the way up with the horrible ipod earphones and listening to music on my computer or ipod/iphone but the sound quality is just horrific.  Also one more question, is the Bifrost Uber a good choice for the HE-500 or should I also save up for a more expensive, better dac?  I recently bought the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber about 2 weeks ago and kind of disappointed I might possibly need to upgrade them.  I'm thinking about getting the HE-500 within a couple months and I will only buy it brand new.


 
  I would not think you would _need_ to upgrade to get the HE-500 to sound good on the Asgard 2/Bifrost.  As others have said you_ could_ get LYR or similar but IMHO it is not entirely needed.  Try it with what you have and if possible audition the HE500 on other gear later and see if you think you need more.
  Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> How so? What do you find lacking? If the step up from the E09K/E17 isn't big enough for you, then I'd argue you either need to go balanced (which costs significantly more) or just get different cans.


 
  I think he was afraid he would need to upgrade for the HE500 he has yet to buy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On another note: there are a couple of you that need to chill out this thread could get locked due to the personal attacks being thrown around....just saying...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  can't we all just get along and talk about the gear and the music instead of each other???


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





bearfnf said:


> I would say upgrade the magni to an Asgard 2 the gain switch and the pre-amp and the power boost would help those phones sing.
> I would not think you would _need_ to upgrade to get the HE-500 to sound good on the Asgard 2/Bifrost.  As others have said you_ could_ get LYR or similar but IMHO it is not entirely needed.  Try it with what you have and if possible audition the HE500 on other gear later and see if you think you need more.
> I think he was afraid he would need to upgrade for the HE500 he has yet to buy
> 
> ...


 
  I didn't start it. All glory goes to M13


----------



## M-13

This is the Schiit Owners Unite thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (think about what you're saying) LOL
  Quote: 





overwerk said:


> nobody needs to have a brain to know you are one of the guys that regard yourself some sort of known fanboy of schiit


 
  When did you buy your HE-500? I bought my first one in July of 2011. 3 months after release. I don't remember you in any of the first 50 pages of the HE-500 threads I was in at that period. I was also the proud owner of the Q701 from early 2011 for about eight months (I owned both the HE-500 and Q701 concurrently of course)
  Quote: 





overwerk said:


> i'm one of the first to buy he500 approx within a day David Mahler posted THE THREAD,


----------



## Overwerk

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> This is the Schiit Owners Unite thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know what I am saying, I  was just about to apologize ahead on my contribution to the seemingly disturbance, I know I am shallow enough to not able to see the big picture sometimes.
   
  like i said and you quoted, --unless you don't know about the thread you yourself post regularly in.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Girls, girls, girls....You're both pretty, OK?


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Girls, girls, girls....You're both pretty, OK?


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Girls, girls, girls....You're both pretty, OK?


----------



## pelli

In hopes to get this thread back on track, I would like to express, as many have before me, that the customer service from Schiit is second to none.  I  had two questions for Jason over the last couple days.  Both times I got a response in less than 2 min.  The second question I emailed earlier today and I'm still am not quite sure I hit send before Jason responded.  It was like some sort of time warp...  Anyways. I couldn't be happier with my Schiit at the moment and am glad to see Jason, Mike, Alex and all the other people making this Schiit happen getting the respect and recognition they deserve in the recent Stereophile review.  If that get them hot, wait 'till they listen to the serious Schiit!  Cheers boys and may this just be the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





pelli said:


> In hopes to get this thread back on track, I would like to express, as many have before me, that the customer service from Schiit is second to none.  I  had two questions for Jason over the last couple days.  Both times I got a response in less than 2 min.  The second question I emailed earlier today and I'm still am not quite sure I hit send before Jason responded.  It was like some sort of time warp...  Anyways. I couldn't be happier with my Schiit at the moment and am glad to see Jason, Mike, Alex and all the other people making this Schiit happen getting the respect and recognition they deserve in the recent Stereophile review.  If that get them hot, wait 'till they listen to the serious Schiit!  Cheers boys and may this just be the tip of the iceberg.


 
  I hear Jason is actually one of ten clones. There are at least 3 to 4 Jasons answering e-mails full time without sleep, while the other Jasons are inventing new amps. At least two are working on the Rag at this moment.


----------



## walls

Unsubscribed.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





walls said:


> Unsubscribed.


 
  You see there, we chased him off...oh well.  schiit happens...


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





walls said:


> Unsubscribed.


 
  I love it when people annouce they're leaving. Such drama queens on Head-Fi. You're not the center of the universe despite what your mom says.


----------



## walls

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> I love it when people annouce they're leaving. Such drama queens on Head-Fi. You're not the center of the universe despite what your mom says.


 
  So you reply by immediately throwing out a personal attack? Seriously, go look in a mirror and repeat your last two sentences junior.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





walls said:


> So you reply by immediately throwing out a personal attack? Seriously, go look in a mirror and repeat your last two sentences junior.


 
  What you're still here? What happened to unsubscribing?


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





pelli said:


> In hopes to get this thread back on track, I would like to express, as many have before me, that the customer service from Schiit is second to none.  I  had two questions for Jason over the last couple days.  Both times I got a response in less than 2 min.  The second question I emailed earlier today and I'm still am not quite sure I hit send before Jason responded.  It was like some sort of time warp...  Anyways. I couldn't be happier with my Schiit at the moment and am glad to see Jason, Mike, Alex and all the other people making this Schiit happen getting the respect and recognition they deserve in the recent Stereophile review.  If that get them hot, wait 'till they listen to the serious Schiit!  Cheers boys and may this just be the tip of the iceberg.


 

 I've had similar very quick email responses to my queries as well. Schiit has their act together.
   
  Cheers


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Omg I kinda triggered a war and chaos with my questions.  I don't have time to respond to some responses here but I will when I have time.


----------



## paradoxper

Edit your posts, everyone. IBTL.


----------



## Maxibully

using my Aasgard  with a hegel hd 11 dac (a norwegian digital analog converter) very nice
  i do however have to admit that i havent really heard any other amps besides the burson  soloist 
  i do however love these ,theres  a warm and lushy  nice sound when pairing it  with my sennheiser hd 598


----------



## Taliesin

Has anyone tried the hd800 with the Asgard 2


----------



## bearFNF

http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-asgard-2/reviews/8528
  Quote: 





taliesin said:


> Has anyone tried the hd800 with the Asgard 2


----------



## UmustBKidn

This is what too much arguing does to me ...


----------



## Tman5293

Anyone here have any experience using the HD 650 with the Magni+Modi stack? I'm about to pick up the HD 650 and I want to know how it gets along with the M+M stack.


----------



## bigjohn1

I am just getting started with Head-FI and had a couple of questions for ya'll.
   
  I have all but settled on getting a Magni/Modi stack for my first venture into the headphone DAC & amp world, but was wondering about the Magni's ability to drive headphones of different levels of impedance.
   
  I curently own Senheiser HD 428s, which were my first "good" headphones, and I really like them.  But, I am planning on using them mainly as my portable/travel headphones and want to upgrade my main listening set for home.  I am considering several different manufacturers and models - but this is not a headphone thread, and my question is not about the headphones really.
   
  Does anyone have experience with the M + M stack running 30ish, 80, and 250-ohm headphones, and what kind of difference you experienced in your listening?  (i.e. it could drive them but not get much volume, sound quality suffered on low or high-end, etc.)
   
  If I am considering a 250-ohm set, should I forget the Magni and go with a higher level amp?  My intention is to get something at an entry-level to set a baseline and possibly upgrade one or both parts in the future, as well as try out the solid-state amplification of the Magni, and possibly a low-end tube amp to see which I prefer (without breaking the bank, as I have already been warned "...sorry about your wallet") 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I appreciate your help and guidance.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Hey, schiitlords. Long time nerd, some-time lurker, first time poster.
   
  Here's the Schiit on my desk at work: 
   




   I'd have gone for something nicer than the 439s, but in a cubicle-style office, openback cans would _not_ go over well. The 439s have that wonderful velour cup all the nicest Senns do, and they pack much, much more of a quality punch than the 280s do for the same price. Don't look ugly like the better Senns, either. I am a Senn loyalist but the better the cans, the worse they look, usually. Eventually I might upgrade to nicer cans for this setup, but I have yet to find good closed-back cans with Senn-velour comfort that aren't completely overkill for the M+M. The 493s come remarkably close to the 580s, considering the price, so I'm not hurtin'.
   
   
  Quote:


tman5293 said:


> Anyone here have any experience using the HD 650 with the Magni+Modi stack? I'm about to pick up the HD 650 and I want to know how it gets along with the M+M stack.


 
  I would not recommend this - the 650 is a _lot_ of headphone, and as good as the M+M stack is, you will be absolutely hamstringing yourself compared to going with a better amp. The Magni will waste far more of the 650's potential than the Modi will, but at the point you're going for the endgame cans, you should probably step up to the Bifrost tier. Not that it'll sound _bad_, it'll still sound absolutely amazing of course, but relative to what the 650s are capable of... not so much. If you don't want to go above M+M on the boxes, go a little lower on the cans. I'd recommend the 580s as just right... if they still made them. RIP, sweet 580s


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





tman5293 said:


> Anyone here have any experience using the HD 650 with the Magni+Modi stack? I'm about to pick up the HD 650 and I want to know how it gets along with the M+M stack.


 
   
  HD600s get along well with the M&M, 650s should be good as well. The usual "for the money" disclaimer applies, but the same could be said of most anything.
   
  Quote: 





bigjohn1 said:


> I am just getting started with Head-FI and had a couple of questions for ya'll.
> 
> I have all but settled on getting a Magni/Modi stack for my first venture into the headphone DAC & amp world, but was wondering about the Magni's ability to drive headphones of different levels of impedance.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The one thing I never had problems with when using the M&M was a lack of power. Even tried them with the HE6 and K1000 at a local meet and it easily reached what I'd consider good volume levels. I also tried them out with my other cans and the only 'issue' I had was having to turn the volume down in Windows so I could get reasonable play in the Magni's volume control with the Shures and Grados.


----------



## Byronb

Quote: 





tman5293 said:


> Anyone here have any experience using the HD 650 with the Magni+Modi stack? I'm about to pick up the HD 650 and I want to know how it gets along with the M+M stack.


 
   
  I use this combo as a travelling setup. They work extremely well together. The 650's may be a lot of HP to use with this stack, but I feel it gives you the ability to buy new electronics and not have to worry about the HP if you feel the need to upgrade, since the 650's scale so incredibly well.


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Here's the Schiit on my desk at work:


 
   
  Off topic, love the keyboard.
   
  Carry on.


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





erukian said:


> Off topic, love the keyboard.
> 
> Carry on.


 
  Oh, snap, did not notice that the first time.  I would not be able to function with no printing...


----------



## IorekByrnison

http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/
   
  I'm a technomancer first and headphone nerd second


----------



## ngyu

Yup, love that keyboard, I got the same. Who looks at their keyboard still? =P
   
  Here's my setup for now: Uberfrost, Lyr with 6N1P tubes, Canare Starquad cables, into my HE500.


----------



## bigjohn1

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> HD600s get along well with the M&M, 650s should be good as well. The usual "for the money" disclaimer applies, but the same could be said of most anything.
> 
> 
> The one thing I never had problems with when using the M&M was a lack of power. Even tried them with the HE6 and K1000 at a local meet and it easily reached what I'd consider good volume levels. I also tried them out with my other cans and the only 'issue' I had was having to turn the volume down in Windows so I could get reasonable play in the Magni's volume control with the Shures and Grados.


 

 Cool, thanks for the info Defiant00.  I also appreciated reading your comparison thread for the Modi/Magni vs Bifrost/Asgard.  Lots of good info and thoughts in there.
   
  I think I am going to stick with my plan go for the Modi/Magni combo, and then later look at upgrading one or both pieces - and using the originals at my desk at work possibly.


----------



## Tuco1965

Well I now have a Bifrost Uber on order to go with my Lyr.  Time to start a hi rez music collection to use with it.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Well I now have a Bifrost Uber on order to go with my Lyr.  Time to start a hi rez music collection to use with it.


 

 Sweeet, I hope to have the UberFrost soon as well! Let us know what you think when you get it!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

all MOSFET Bifrost, that'd be a Superfrost
   
  Nevermind that'd be a downgrade.


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Sweeet, I hope to have the UberFrost soon as well! Let us know what you think when you get it!


 
  Congrats on your order too!
  Definitely!  I'll likely wear out the F5 key checking my order status.


----------



## wahsmoh

Recabled DT880s with Asgard 2 + Uberfrost combo.
   
  I've finally reached my endgame setup on Head-fi. The next time I decide to spend money it will be on a pair of LCD-2's and who knows how long that could be. I've reached the conclusion that I'm not going to find anymore detail or improvements unless I spend over $1000 on a headphone. If anyone could recommend a headphone to me that I might enjoy as a compliment to my DT880 let me know..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I still continue to drool everytime I put my headphones on


----------



## gefski

tuco1965 said:


> Well I now have a Bifrost Uber on order to go with my Lyr.  Time to start a hi rez music collection to use with it.




You wont have to wait until you get hi-rez files to hear a very transparent window on the music. If you haven't already, check out Schiit's Faq describing their absolute refusal to do any upsampling. About 90% of my music files are 16/44 flac or wave, properly sent at original sample rate to Bifrost, and they are superb (some albums better than others of course).

You'll like it!


----------



## IorekByrnison

How do people here feel about the idea of pairing one of the bigger Schiit amps like the Valhalla with the Modi DAC?
   
  I am interested in eventually updating the setup at my desk - especially if I am brought on full time as I may be soon... it would be a great way to celebrate, but I really don't want to have to go through the hassle of having IT install drivers on my company laptop for a USB2 DAC like the Bifrost, where the M+M required no input or approval at all due to being so simple. That, and I'm not entirely convinced the price difference wouldn't be better spent on the cans. Uberfrosting ain't cheap, Modi is. 
   
   
*Semi-Offtopic:*
   
  Additionally, although this is the Schiit thread, I'm in the market for a better set of closed-backs than my current Senn HD439s. They're absolutely remarkable for the price, but having HD580s at home, they just don't sound quite as good in comparison, even running the 580s off a BitHead. I'm looking for a set of closed-backs which have the level of detail found in the 580s (seriously, you can hear the performers _breathe_ with even just a BitHead), and with the same velour-cup comfort. I wish I could go open, but... cubicle farm. I've been recommended a few things in a thread I posted, and the most promising item is the Beyer DT70, which is more expensive than even an HD650... so nobody can blame me for balking there. A pair of closed backs from a brand I've never tried, for the cost of both HD650s _and_ new 650 pads for my beat-up HD580s? _Eeeehhhhh_
   
  Considering my M+M and potential interest in a Valhalla, do any of you Schiitlords have a recommendation for good, comfortable circumaurals that won't piss all my co-workers off or make my head sweat(pleather cups etc)? I'd love to just bring my 580s in, but you might as well strap speakers to your skull. Leakage is an understatement. The HD493 I have are great*, but especially with a gear upgrade I could do better... and I'm worried about using cans designed to get nice volume out of an iPhone with the Valhalla (should I be?)
   
   
  *seriously, given burn-in, the HD493s are _shocking. _They're stylish and open-back-themed closed-backs for $100, with startlingly crisp clarity for the price, almost like baby $250+ open-backs in a way. Detail-wise, they walk all over the same-price HD280s, lagging behind only in ~_beatz_~. The bass reaches _low_, tight and fast, but unless you crank it, they're not bass cannons. I love these things, and highly recommend them for anyone in need of a cheap pair of closed cans with a more open-back high detail profile. Also, in something that makes a _huge_ difference to me, they have velour cups. $100 for stylish looks, velous comfort, tight and controlled bass, sparklingly complex detail rendering, and removable cabling. They take a 30-50h burn-in to warm up (and I do mean warm, it's a very enjoyable warmth) and to have any access to the bass... but I recommend these _very_ highly after a week living with them, for their price bracket. There's no better can-phile option at that price point. Once burned in so they can do bass and warmth, these sound like a lot more than $100 of 'phone.


----------



## mvrk10256

Office just sent me a package notification. My M&M stack is here!!!!
   
  Cant wait to go home and give it a go. BTW isnt there a review of a guy mix and matching the M&M stack with the Askgardd/bifrost?


----------



## bigjohn1

Quote: 





mvrk10256 said:


> Office just sent me a package notification. My M&M stack is here!!!!
> 
> Cant wait to go home and give it a go. BTW isnt there a review of a guy mix and matching the M&M stack with the Askgardd/bifrost?


 
   
  Yes there is:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard
  
  Defiant00 did a great job comparing/contrasting the various pieces in different combinations.
   
  and I can now post on this thread as a fellow Schiit owner.  Ordered my M&M stack yesterday, and it shipped out same day.  I should have it waiting for me at home tomorrow afternoon!


----------



## Tuco1965

Another Schiithead joins the club!  Congrats!


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> How do people here feel about the idea of pairing one of the bigger Schiit amps like the Valhalla with the Modi DAC?
> 
> I am interested in eventually updating the setup at my desk - especially if I am brought on full time as I may be soon... it would be a great way to celebrate, but I really don't want to have to go through the hassle of having IT install drivers on my company laptop for a USB2 DAC like the Bifrost, where the M+M required no input or approval at all due to being so simple. That, and I'm not entirely convinced the price difference wouldn't be better spent on the cans. Uberfrosting ain't cheap, Modi is.
> 
> ...


 
  You should be very happy using a Modi
   
  I'm curious about your assessment of the HD280s and their comparison to Beatz and HD439s, mostly because I've heard of folks prefering 439s to 280s but I've never heard anybody claim the sound quality is leaps and bounds "better". Usually the big differences between the two come down to comfort. Furthermore, that fact that you put Beatz _ahead_ of both the 439s and the 280s is really interesting, because I think you are the _first _person who has heard all three and actually think the Beatz's sound reproduction capabilities outclass a staple professional monitoring headphone or its closely related consumer-line brethren. It is truly fascinating.
   
  Anyway, if it helps your point of reference, I use a Modi with a Magni and the HD280s and the results are fantastic.
  I was listening to the Telarc recording of 1812 overture and with my setup could hear background movement noises behind the music throughout, but for example right around 3:58. The setups has the finesse to recreate those subtleties while it has the power to capture the majesty of the cannon blasts later on in the piece. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure I can detect the conductor fart right at 15:00. For the love of god, please realize I'm joking here. Please don't crank your system up to hear a fart at this oint in the music because a cannon is about to ruin your **** if you do.
   
  I was also listening to the title track from King Crimson's Lizard and the Magni+Modi+280s let me hear so much more detail---and actually understand what Jon Anderson is singing about in Prince Rupert Awakes---better than with other headphones like the AKG 240s. FYI, if you're using HD280s with Magni+Modi, i recommend keeping the volume knob at 9:30 or below. Otherwise, Fripp's mellotron blasts between Anderson's soft lyrics will be very painful in the left ear. The interlevening bass, piano, sax, oboe, and cornet in Bolero-The peacocks tale a magnificintly rendered by the my schiit amp and dac and lowely HD280s. Typical of all recordings from the early 70's, the recording noise is far more limiting that any modern equipment, and this is none more obvious than during Haskell's eerie chant that begins The battle of glass tears. The HD280s and schitt stack resolve everything in the recording.
   
  Finally, I just wanted to comment that until I got the Magni+Modi driving my HD280s, I never realised how dynamic early Symphony X recordings were (like The Damnation Game) and I find it really depressing how overly compressed mastering of the later works are (e.g. Paradise Lost). I really like the titular track from Paradise Lost, but the compression  really makes the recording fatiguing and it robs the track of some of the epicness that it deserves by castrating the impact from Rullo's drums and Leponds bass. Furthemore Pinnella's piano introduction should have much softer to start----there just isn't enough headroom to for the dramatic build up that this song deserves.
  Anyways, it's not something I ever noticed listening to the tracks from my smartphone or laptop, so kudos to Schiit for making my HD280s a really increadible set of $100 earspeakers.
   
  Well, that's my experience using HD280s with Modi + Magni. You'll notice I didn't mention anything about electronic noise---that's because I can't hear any. The M+M have plenty of headroom that there is absolutetly nothing audible in the background. I couldn't be happier with three $100 peices. It could just be that I have different tastes, who knows. I definately prefer my HD280s to my friends more expensive AD900s, and I prefer washington apples to florida oranges (this seems like a valid comparision here). I've got some much pricier headphones on order, and I'll see if they open my eyes to the magical world of resolving audio equipment that will make me hate the 280s, although I'm skeptical.
   
  Cheers


----------



## IorekByrnison

Oh, oh god no. I did not mean to imply that Beats are even worth the plastic they are stamped out of. Ew, ew, ew.
   
  The difference I see between the 439 and 280 are that the 280 have bass slam and isolation that the 439 cannot match, while the 439 trades the bass slam and isolation for increased detail/balance and comfort. They're both very good, but if it's detail and fidelity you want, the 439 walks all over the 280. If it's fun bass-cans you want, the 280s are the way to go, and they're not _without_ detail... they're still Sennheiser.
   
  I find that the 439s feel far more in line with fun-but-refined stuff like the 580/650 approach to headphones, while the 280s are what Beats wish they were - DJ headphones with an extra helping of subwoofer. Each has their place.


----------



## barbz127

Has anyone with a USB v1 Bifrost upgraded the usb card to the V2? If so was it worth it?
   
  Cheers
  Paul


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Oh, oh god no. I did not mean to imply that Beats are even worth the plastic they are stamped out of. Ew, ew, ew.
> 
> The difference I see between the 439 and 280 are that the 280 have bass slam and isolation that the 439 cannot match, while the 439 trades the bass slam and isolation for increased detail/balance and comfort. They're both very good, but if it's detail and fidelity you want, the 439 walks all over the 280. If it's fun bass-cans you want, the 280s are the way to go, and they're not _without_ detail... they're still Sennheiser.
> 
> I find that the 439s feel far more in line with fun-but-refined stuff like the 580/650 approach to headphones, while the 280s are what Beats wish they were - DJ headphones with an extra helping of subwoofer. Each has their place.


 

 Oh I see, I'm sorry I misunderstood your post. Yes, this description seems close to the general consensus! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I get a kick out of hearing that the HD  280s are "bass heavy" (in general, because I've heard it from several others as well) because a lot of other folks choose different closed cans like M50 or the DT770 for the extra bass over the 280s---in fact, the 280's are also often accused of being too bright. I know, it's confusing!
   
  The measurements at innerfidelity suggest that it's actually the 439's that have recessed mids and treble compared to the 280s. In fact, if anything, one could argue that the 280s show a defficiency in bass response in the 80--160 Hz range where the 439's only have a defficiency from about 90--120Hz.  The DT770's and the M50s definitely show low frequency response with a few extra dB emphasis above the mids and trebles.

 I admit that I don't have any experience with the DT770s or the M50s, but I do have a pair of Akg 240studios with me and there is a plot from headroom's build a graph:
   
  http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=3741&graphID[]=2611&graphID[]=713&graphID[]=533&scale=30
   
  In this graph, it shows the HD280's in orange with DT770(green), HD439 (blue), and K240s(red) for comparison and in fact the HD280s have less bass than all the rest of them (with the exception of having more sub-bass compared to the semi-open K240s). This actually shows that the HD280s have similar mid bass, and less upper-bass and lower-mids than the other headphones. Basically, all the closed cans show bass-extension, but in terms of the mid bass and upper bass that we hear more than feel, the other headphones have more of it.
   
  I dont' like the K240s because they sound "boomy" to me. The graph clearly shows the mid bass and upper bass bloat (90Hz -- 300Hz).
   
  How these graphs pertain to "detail" I'm not exactly sure, although I feel like I hear less detail from K240s compared to the HD280's because the boomy 100-200Hz region floods over the other parts of the music. The HD439, DT770, and the M50s don't have the same bloat, so I presume they all sound much more resolving that the K240s as well.
   
  I'll restrain from linking frequency response measurements of the beats headphones so as to not embarrass Dr Dre, although the curious can certianly use their google-fu to see how those $300 compare to the "unbiased" ears of Tyll's dummy head.
   
   
  Cheers!


----------



## gefski

barbz127 said:


> Has anyone with a USB v1 Bifrost upgraded the usb card to the V2? If so was it worth it?
> 
> Cheers
> Paul




Yes, still wondering myself what the sonic personality of the Gen 2 upgrade is. The new Stereophile review wasn't helpful in that regard.


----------



## barbz127

Quote: 





gefski said:


> Yes, still wondering myself what the sonic personality of the Gen 2 upgrade is. The new Stereophile review wasn't helpful in that regard.


 
   
  I just bought one when I ordered a set of T90's  so ill pass on any change after it arrives.
   
  Paul


----------



## IorekByrnison

Does anyone in this thread own both a Modi and a Valhalla?
   
  From the dimensions I suspect it won't work, but I want to possibly swap my Magni with a Valhalla, and in the rearranging, stack the Modi on top of the Valhalla like so:
   
  [modi]_AA_
  [valhalla___]
   
  (front view, where the "A" represents the tubes)
   
  Going by measurement numbers and by eye, the Modi at 5" and the Valhalla at 9" wide, the Modi would not only be over the Valhalla's grill, but possibly even touching the tubes.
   
  If someone with both could test it for me and maybe even take a pic that would be greatly appreciated. Aside from that, if anyone has any other aesthetically pleasing ideas for mating the two, I'm open to suggestions. I want to avoid setting them next to eachother if possible, as that just isn't all that good looking, and I'd sooner buy a Bifrost with the guts of a Modi just for sake of stack aesthetics. I know I can't be the only one who will spend a ton or possibly even opt not to upgrade in the name of aesthetics here...
   
  I wish the WA7 didn't have so many people bemoaning the choice of included DAC, or that hideous power supply... because it's a beautiful monster and I'm ever so tempted... but I want to stick to Senns and Schiit wherever possible.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Does anyone in this thread own both a Modi and a Valhalla?
> 
> From the dimensions I suspect it won't work, but I want to possibly swap my Magni with a Valhalla, and in the rearranging, stack the Modi on top of the Valhalla like so:
> 
> ...


 

 Bite the bullet and go Uberfrost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 stacking problem solved!


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Does anyone in this thread own both a Modi and a Valhalla?
> 
> From the dimensions I suspect it won't work, but I want to possibly swap my Magni with a Valhalla, and in the rearranging, stack the Modi on top of the Valhalla like so:
> 
> ...


 

 Don't stack anything on top of a Valhalla---It's class A and get's hot 
	
. You should always put the hot amplifier at the top of a stack so it can get more direct exposure to air for cooling purposes. Stacking something on top of the amplifier restricts air flow, which makes the amp get even hotter, and it causes more heat to go into the component above it, which will unnecessarily heat up the other component and shorten it's lifespan.
   
  Cheers
   
  P.S. The active filter stage in the Modi means that it is no problem to hide it behind your computer (out of sight!) and run longer cables to the amp. This is Schiit's advice. That way, if you don't need S/PDIF or coax inputs, don't need 192kHz output, don't need the extra 3 years of warranty, or don't need to prop your valhalla up on top of a DAC, then you can save yourself the $450 on a Bifrost and just use the modi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Just don't stack anything on top of a really hot amplifier.


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> P.S. The active filter stage in the Modi means that it is no problem to hide it behind your computer (out of sight!) and run longer cables to the amp. This is Schiit's advice.


 
   
  Good post, good advices  How long exactly do you think it's ok, i.e. don't go over which length?


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> Good post, good advices  How long exactly do you think it's ok, i.e. don't go over which length?


 
   
  If you use a half-way decent RCA interconnect, then it should be no problem with 25ft or 50ft. Transmission line effects aren't going to affect audible frequencies until you have kilometers of wire 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Here's 25ft RCA pair from Monoprice for $7.12. 22AWG wire is plenty for an interconnect this length. Something like this would be fine. Always use the shortest interconnect that is still sufficiently long to get the job done. Anything longer is a waste of money and just makes a tangle mess behind your setup. You can always get something more expensive if you like different ergonomics of the connectors, or the style.
   
  I can't imagine needing more than 25ft to connect a DAC and amp that are in the same room, unless you live in a _huge_ house. 10 or 15ft is usually plenty to get the job done.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Tuco1965

Well tracking shows my Bifrost out for delivery today.  It's gonna be a long night.


----------



## bigjohn1

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> Well tracking shows my Bifrost out for delivery today.  It's gonna be a long night.


 

 Nice!  Enjoy!
   
  I only got to experience my M&M stack for a few hours, last weekend, until I had to pack and leave on another trip for work.  I am looking forward to heading home on Friday and getting to listen some more.
   
  The Magni sounds great to me so far, but I have not listened to a lot of different styles of music yet (or even a large sample).  What is everyone's thoughts on burn-in for the Magni?  Is it necessary, has anyone done it and experienced any change/improvement in the sound quality, and how long did you burn-in before seeing improvement?


----------



## Tuco1965

I can't speak for burn in on a Magni, but I suggest just listen to it a lot with all the music you like.  Your ears will be come accustomed to it more than anything IMO.  Enjoy the music!


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





bigjohn1 said:


> Nice!  Enjoy!
> 
> I only got to experience my M&M stack for a few hours, last weekend, until I had to pack and leave on another trip for work.  I am looking forward to heading home on Friday and getting to listen some more.
> 
> The Magni sounds great to me so far, but I have not listened to a lot of different styles of music yet (or even a large sample).  What is everyone's thoughts on burn-in for the Magni?  Is it necessary, has anyone done it and experienced any change/improvement in the sound quality, and how long did you burn-in before seeing improvement?


 
   
  Not sure if it was the Magni or Modi as I was testing them together, but they sounded a bit harsh right out of the box and when I came back to them a couple hours later they sounded a lot better.
   
  After the first couple hours if they changed any further I didn't notice it.


----------



## M-13

Any impressions of the Vahalla vs. Lyr for driving HD650/600?
   
  Also HD800?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Thanks to ECT I don't remember asking for a Lyr at all, but ok. I'm sure the sr60i's will sound incredible


----------



## IorekByrnison

Does anyone here have experience with running the T70 (_not T70p, these will live at my desk_) off of either a Valhalla, Asgard or Lyr (stock tubes on both tube amps)?
  I've heard all sorts of wonderful and amazing things about the T70's comfort, clarity, sound stage, speed, and it's utterly beautiful... but I've also heard that all that goodness is marred by a lack of bass that going by reviews involves not rendering frequencies below 250hz at all. The charts show it has a solid bass response, so I'm hoping ever so badly it's just a matter of people driving the T70s on an iPhone complaining, or mistaking a full-reaching, tight bass response for a weak one because it doesn't have the sheer slam of rubber-seal bass-cans. I know bass-heads, newer listeners and non-nerd consumers in general are often biased without being aware of it towards bass-at-the-cost-of-everything cans, see: the success of Beatz. 
   
  I want _ever_ so badly to hear that if I pair the T70 with one of those three amps, I will be satisfied, because everything else about it sounds just so perfect for what I need. If it helps any, I find the bass in my HD493s (closed) and HD580s (open) quite enjoyable, and neither is exactly known for the slam. If the T70 matches or exceeds either in bass I'd be set, and I find it hard to believe a $450+ closed can Beyer would have less bass than a super-open pair of Senns. 
   
I'm also curious for the sake of it, if anyone has experience with the T70 on a Magni, with or without a comparison to the bigger amps. I may end up getting my next set of cans before I upgrade my stack, so knowing how it'll drive them would be great.
   
   
and, not related to that set, I'd love a concise explanation of the differences between the three amp sounds (Lyr, Valhalla, Asgard) from someone who's spent some time with all of them and formed an opinion, as all three are still up for consideration regardless of what cans I settle on. 
   
  Thanks, Schiitheads. <3


----------



## joebobbilly

Also another question for all of us proud Schiit owners here.
   
  Anyone heard the mojo/gungnir combo with HD 800?? I've been looking around and most people only mention single-ended pairings for the HD800. My Schiit stack is pretty much end-game for me in terms of amp and DAC. Just considering the HD 800 as my final HP and wanna get some thoughts from our community here.


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Does anyone here have experience with running the T70 (_not T70p, these will live at my desk_) off of either a Valhalla, Asgard or Lyr (stock tubes on both tube amps)?
> I've heard all sorts of wonderful and amazing things about the T70's comfort, clarity, sound stage, speed, and it's utterly beautiful... but I've also heard that all that goodness is marred by a lack of bass that going by reviews involves not rendering frequencies below 250hz at all. The charts show it has a solid bass response, so I'm hoping ever so badly it's just a matter of people driving the T70s on an iPhone complaining, or mistaking a full-reaching, tight bass response for a weak one because it doesn't have the sheer slam of rubber-seal bass-cans. I know bass-heads, newer listeners and non-nerd consumers in general are often biased without being aware of it towards bass-at-the-cost-of-everything cans, see: the success of Beatz.


 
  As you can see here, the T70s have very flat bass extension. any of the amps you mention should have no problem driving them correctly and achieving a good frequency response. How much you like the various amps will depend on your tastes (i.e. tubiness vs transistorparency) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Perhaps the folk who speak against the bass are really just responding to what appears to be a peak in the treble frequencies.
   
  I wouldn't fret about other people's opinions too much. In the end, you'll just have to hear for yourself.
   
  Cheers


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Also another question for all of us proud Schiit owners here.
> 
> Anyone heard the mojo/gungnir combo with HD 800?? I've been looking around and most people only mention single-ended pairings for the HD800. My Schiit stack is pretty much end-game for me in terms of amp and DAC. Just considering the HD 800 as my final HP and wanna get some thoughts from our community here.


 
   
  I actually preferred it more out of the Lyr. I can't really give a quantifiable reason for it though.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





bigjohn1 said:


> ...





> What is everyone's thoughts on burn-in for the Magni?  Is it necessary, has anyone done it and experienced any change/improvement in the sound quality, and how long did you burn-in before seeing improvement?


 
   
  There is no burn-in for solid state devices. They either work, or they don't. Manufacturers will generally "smoke test" devices once before they leave the factory, just to make sure they work. Solid state devices that are faulty generally break pretty quickly, so turning them on and running them for a short while generally reveals those devices that had some fault in their manufacture. Those devices are generally repaired and retested before being sold as new.
   
  A funny case I remember from many years ago when I worked for a major Japanese audio manufacturer... Some guy brought in a top of the line car stereo amp that he claimed would fail under certain conditions. We ended up torture testing that amp for a couple weeks before we finally gave up trying, and gave the guy a new one, because we could not confirm his claim. We ran it 24/7 under maximum load, and it was almost hot enough to cook food the entire time. We put it on top of a glass plate and isolated it with no air movement to make it get hotter. To my knowledge it never failed for us. I think the guy who tested it bought it from the company and kept it for himself lol.
   
  Burn-in is a term properly applied to the manufacture of tubes. Speaking as a person who personally spent 14.5 years of his life making vacuum tubes, I know a little about them. I posted something about this in the sound science forum a while back. PM me if you are curious.
   
  There seems to be much debate about reasons for the change in sound quality when first listening to amps, headphones, in fact most any piece of your audio setup. I remain really quite amazed at why the perception changes, but the more I listen and read, the more I tend to agree with those who believe this is a phenomenon in our minds. I have personally experienced it with my own Magni+Modi stack, especially after swapping different amp, dac, and headphone combinations. I remain amazed at how my perception of SQ changes under different circumstances. How can I call a perception of change "burn in", when the perceived change occurred months after buying and using the devices? Clearly, the devices aren't changing - so something else is.
   
  Anyway, from what I have seen, Schiit gear is built like a tank. It is ready to rock and roll out of the box. I honestly do believe I'll pass my gear on to my kids in my will, it will certainly last that long (as long as I don't spill a beer on it).


----------



## olor1n

joebobbilly said:


> Also another question for all of us proud Schiit owners here.
> 
> Anyone heard the mojo/gungnir combo with HD 800?? I've been looking around and most people only mention single-ended pairings for the HD800. My Schiit stack is pretty much end-game for me in terms of amp and DAC. Just considering the HD 800 as my final HP and wanna get some thoughts from our community here.




I couldn't live with the Gungnir/MJ stack for the HD800. Impressive on initial listen but ultimately the combo lacked finesse and was too aggressive and grating on the ears. Replacing the Gungnir with the NAD M51 addressed all those issues.


----------



## IorekByrnison

...I am a ******* grand master of the art of patience. 
   
  I was going to go for a Valhalla or Lyr + Uberfrost stack, and a pair of higher-end closed-back cans to upgrade my cubicle setup in a month or two when I expect I will likely be brought on full time at my current job, as a sort of celebration - and just live with my M+M/HD439 until then.
   
  Tonight, I got the great idea to buy the T70 on Amazon prime so I'd have them this week because... something? About an hour later I realized, hey, wait - the T70 is high impedance as it gets, especially if you want bass out of it. My Magni might not be the best way to discover those cans, and now that I bought them... the Valhalla sure would though, and it'll be fine with my Modi! I wonder if Amazon has it on prime...
   
  Next thing I know, my T70 order has a Valhalla order sitting right next to it, both with one day shipping due to show up at the office on Thursday.
   
  So uh, that happened. I should probably not be looking at head-fi at 2AM, it makes things like this happen. Good lord the Valhalla is sexy though...
   
  I'm now a more-than-m+m member of the Schiitlord Society, earlier than expected. Just need to get one of those snazzy silver Woo Audio headphone stands and my desk setup will be complete. I figure, I listen to music 8+ hours a day every day, stationary, at the office, and nowhere approaching that level of sit-down-and-listen at home... so my good schiit might as well be in my cubicle, rather than at home. 
   
   
  Oops.


----------



## bigjohn1

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> There is no burn-in for solid state devices. They either work, or they don't. Manufacturers will generally "smoke test" devices once before they leave the factory, just to make sure they work. Solid state devices that are faulty generally break pretty quickly, so turning them on and running them for a short while generally reveals those devices that had some fault in their manufacture. Those devices are generally repaired and retested before being sold as new.
> 
> A funny case I remember from many years ago when I worked for a major Japanese audio manufacturer... Some guy brought in a top of the line car stereo amp that he claimed would fail under certain conditions. We ended up torture testing that amp for a couple weeks before we finally gave up trying, and gave the guy a new one, because we could not confirm his claim. We ran it 24/7 under maximum load, and it was almost hot enough to cook food the entire time. We put it on top of a glass plate and isolated it with no air movement to make it get hotter. To my knowledge it never failed for us. I think the guy who tested it bought it from the company and kept it for himself lol.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks!  I figured that would be the case, but I wanted to check with others that had more experience with the pieces.  I agree with the differences between sold-state and tubes, regarding burn-in requirements and quantifiable differences.  (and in how our perception changes over time - maybe call it "ear burn-in"? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Thanks for the info, and I am looking forward to a long time of listening and enjoying my M+Ms.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Ok awesome! It was just a request rather than a receipt so that's good, I did NOT have money for an amp right now


----------



## IorekByrnison

Solid state burn-in is real, you just have to _believe_ hard enough. You see, when you've run the chips for at least 40 hours, you begin to attract the possession of fidelity-sprites into the chassis - this is also why you should have a solid gold cording fabric-wrapped USB cable with rare metals double magnetic shielding and diamond reinforced plugs. Those aspects allow you to attract and retain more of the sprites than a normal cable would. It really is a faith thing though - if you think this sounds ridiculous, they'll be offput by that and refuse to settle into your gear, so you won't notice any benefits. If you don't believe it's because you don't believe... and if you do, let me know - I have a _really_ nice USB cable for you, pre-populated with fidelity sprites.


----------



## azteca x

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *bigjohn1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> our perception changes over time - maybe call it "ear burn-in"? )


 
  Yep.


----------



## Defiant00

Well, all I can say is when I got the M&M I listened for maybe 15 minutes, left it playing and went and watched some TV, then came back and listened a couple hours later. Right out of the box I thought they sounded harsh, a couple hours later I thought they sounded good.
   
  My theory is that Schiit might not burn in the M&M like they do their other amps and DACs, but it's only a guess. Either way, outside of the first couple hours I never noticed any difference.


----------



## IorekByrnison

They ship burned-in amps? What does that mean for my Valhalla, then? - the tubes fully burned in, partially burned in, fresh but something else in the amp burned in, etc.
  I've heard that tubes and tube amps have a definite burn-in period, so if they've already done it for me, that's pretty awesome.


----------



## Defiant00

I believe they've previously stated that they let them run for either 24 or 48 hours straight before shipping them out for burn in purposes and to catch early faults.


----------



## IorekByrnison

I think I recall about 40 hours being the sweet spot for most-to-all of the burn-in benefits taking effect... if that's the case, that is awesome to hear. My T70s are still gonna need a weekend long beating going by what I've heard, though.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Is the lyr way better than Asgard 2?  And is there any reason to keep both?


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I couldn't live with the Gungnir/MJ stack for the HD800. Impressive on initial listen but ultimately the combo lacked finesse and was too aggressive and grating on the ears. Replacing the Gungnir with the NAD M51 addressed all those issues.


 

 Drat. That is unfortunate... I definitely don't think I can fork out $2K for a DAC on top of the HD800. Guess I should just call it quits @ the HD650?


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Drat. That is unfortunate... I definitely don't think I can fork out $2K for a DAC on top of the HD800. Guess I should just call it quits @ the HD650?


 

 I would be careful if I were you. Olor1n shared his personal experience, it doesn't mean that your tastes will match. If you look forward to getting HD-800, then you would be doing yourself a great disservice to pass just because of somebody else's subjective tastes.
  
  It is unwise to take single pieces of anecdotal testimony and expect them to hold as universal truths. You'll quickly find that if you tally every single opinion on Head-Fi, that you will find that there exists no universally accepted "best" configuration.
   
  Cheers!
   
  EDIT/afterthought: I guess it would be helpful if you could share with us exactly what it is about your current configuration that you find lacking. That will help the community help direct you toward a solution. If you are just curious about HD800s, then it would be advisable to try them at a dealer or at a meet.


----------



## ForsakenArcher

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Is the lyr way better than Asgard 2?  And is there any reason to keep both?


 
  In your case, i think you dont really need to keep both amps. May be sell Asgard 2 and upgrade to Lyr? Havent heard DT880, but I prefer HD 600 with Lyr to Asgard. For me I keep Lyr for harder to drive cans, and Asgard to sensitive denons.


----------



## ab initio

forsakenarcher said:


> In your case, i think you dont really need to keep both amps. May be sell Asgard 2 and upgrade to Lyr? Havent heard DT880, but I prefer HD 600 with Lyr to Asgard. For me I keep Lyr for harder to drive cans, and Asgard to sensitive denons.




This is a good point. 

One point to add is that Asgard is solid state while lyr is a hybrid with tubes. They certainly may have a different characteristic so perhaps you would want to hold on to the asgard for its solid state transparency and have a lyr for the tubey warm overtones.

Cheers


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Quote: 





forsakenarcher said:


> In your case, i think you dont really need to keep both amps. May be sell Asgard 2 and upgrade to Lyr? Havent heard DT880, but I prefer HD 600 with Lyr to Asgard. For me I keep Lyr for harder to drive cans, and Asgard to sensitive denons.


 

 Thinking about getting he-500.  Also would you guys recommend the he-400 or he-500 if I can afford to buy either one?  And how much better are they than my current headphones?


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Thinking about getting he-500.  Also would you guys recommend the he-400 or he-500 if I can afford to buy either one?  And how much better are they than my current headphones?


 
   
  I can't do a direct comparison but maybe this will help:
   
  I've heard the DT880 vs the T1. T1 is better overall - better detail retrieval, better bass quality, and for my ears, better midrange, and smoother highs. Was able to try them side by side, and much, much preferred the T1. 
   
  The HE-500 is very different - detail, balanced, natural. It is easily in the same league as the T1 as a product in terms of quality, and even better from a price to performance ratio. They are both keepers.  
   
  I am not talking about them being equal in technicalities, but if you talk about "great headphones" in general based on their own individual merits, the HE500 holds its own. 
   
  Go for the HE500.


----------



## tuna47

Have the 500 had the 400 I would never go back 500 do a much more balanced sound 400 are weird with female vocals drove me crazy
500 my end game


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> I would be careful if I were you. Olor1n shared his personal experience, it doesn't mean that your tastes will match. If you look forward to getting HD-800, then you would be doing yourself a great disservice to pass just because of somebody else's subjective tastes.
> 
> It is unwise to take single pieces of anecdotal testimony and expect them to hold as universal truths. You'll quickly find that if you tally every single opinion on Head-Fi, that you will find that there exists no universally accepted "best" configuration.
> 
> ...


 

 Fair enough point. I am hoping to have the HD800s to compliment my HD6t50s. I have tried the HD800 at a local meet on the Lyr and I still find them amazing. I am mostly just concerned if the HD800 will be too sibilant on the mojo/gungnir combo as I have heard the HD800 can be tough to match with amps/dacs. I do not need to find a "perfect" match for the HD800... but I would like to avoid any rough combos (ie. for me... the JJ tubes on the Lyr with any treble happy cans).


----------



## UmustBKidn

iorekbyrnison said:


> Solid state burn-in is real, you just have to _believe_ hard enough. You see, when you've run the chips for at least 40 hours, you begin to attract the possession of fidelity-sprites into the chassis - this is also why you should have a solid gold cording fabric-wrapped USB cable with rare metals double magnetic shielding and diamond reinforced plugs. Those aspects allow you to attract and retain more of the sprites than a normal cable would. It really is a faith thing though - if you think this sounds ridiculous, they'll be offput by that and refuse to settle into your gear, so you won't notice any benefits. If you don't believe it's because you don't believe... and if you do, let me know - I have a _really_ nice USB cable for you, pre-populated with fidelity sprites.




What about the nannites? You forgot the nannites!?!


----------



## UmustBKidn

iorekbyrnison said:


> They ship burned-in amps? What does that mean for my Valhalla, then? - the tubes fully burned in, partially burned in, fresh but something else in the amp burned in, etc.
> I've heard that tubes and tube amps have a definite burn-in period, so if they've already done it for me, that's pretty awesome.




Your Valhalla has tubes, which are used to amplify a signal. There is a lovely picture of the innards of a Valhalla (without tubes) on the Schiit website.

Tubes in the Valhalla are made by some other manufacturer (their website doesn't say which one). This other manufacturer, as part of the process of creating the tubes, does a couple of interesting things when creating them. After the vacuum envelope is sealed, something called "flashing the getter" is performed, which helps clean up the gases in the tube (to get rid of oxygen). After this is done, the tube is operated for a period of time, which is variously called aging, or burn-in. This burn-in is meant to stabilize the operation of the tube, and give an indication of whether it will continue to work or if it's going to fail soon. Tubes that do not stabilize are discarded.

The aging process for a tube continues for its lifetime. The majority of the changes in a tube occur during this first operational period, after flashing the getter. Why do things change in a tube? Well, because basically any electron tube is "playing catch" with electrons inside the vacuum envelope, between the various metal structures you see inside the tube: one surface emits electrons, others absorb them. This process has a limited lifetime: there are only so many electrons that the surfaces can emit, before they simply run out. So over time, tubes get weaker and weaker, and one day they just stop working. Worn out tubes cannot be repaired, they are simply discarded (it would be more expensive to repair them than make new ones).

Anyhow, once Schiit receives the tubes for their Valhallas, they are already burned in for a short period of time. They will continue to change over the life of the device. This change is not burn-in per se; it is just the side effect of the changes inside the tube as it is used, and finally worn out.

Do other components burn in? No. At least not in the way I just described above. Do they change after you turn them on and operate them? Hopefully not much, otherwise something might break. There might be small changes as things heat up, but that's not burn-in, in the sense I've explained it above.

I worked in an industry for a while that produced tubes (which is still in business, I might add), for a different sort of application. You can look this stuff up on Google so I won't bother to explain it here. Satellites, radar, military stuff, microwave towers, commercial radio stations, all use high power vacuum tubes. Some of them are rather high tech devices, and cost a whole lot more than a NOS NIB Mullard (lol). All of those tubes experience burn-in, some of them for very long periods of time (hundreds of hours). Solid state devices do not require this burn in; they either work, or they don't.


----------



## UmustBKidn

defiant00 said:


> I believe they've previously stated that they let them run for either 24 or 48 hours straight before shipping them out for burn in purposes and to catch early faults.





defiant00 said:


> Well, all I can say is when I got the M&M I listened for maybe 15 minutes, left it playing and went and watched some TV, then came back and listened a couple hours later. Right out of the box I thought they sounded harsh, a couple hours later I thought they sounded good.
> 
> My theory is that Schiit might not burn in the M&M like they do their other amps and DACs, but it's only a guess. Either way, outside of the first couple hours I never noticed any difference.




In the first case, that's called a smoke check. 48 hours is overkill (really, so is 24 hours). They'd only really have to operate it at full blast until it got hot, for maybe a couple hours, to really see if something was going to blow. The point of a smoke check is to get a device operating as hot as it will ever run, to see if it breaks. In my experience, a device that has a flaw from manufacture doesn't require 2 days to blow - it usually blows the moment after you turn it on, lol. At most, maybe an hour. So all that extra time is really just "feel good" time 

The reason for this is that heat is not a friend to a solid state device. The design incorporates sufficient features to allow a device to cool enough to keep it from melting, under maximum load, for a certain period of time. This period of time is called a rating, or a duty cycle (this applies to lots of things). Some devices can only be operated for short periods of time, say for example, a paper shredder. Read the instructions carefully and you'll find out that your shredder is only rated to operate for perhaps 10 minutes out of an hour. If you operate it longer than that, you can damage it. Welders are another example: you can only keep a welder running for a certain period of time. A device that is rated for continuous duty, can be operated constantly, 24/7 (that is the highest rating).

I don't see anything on the Schiit website that specifies their gear is rated for continuous operation, but if they run their gear at full blast for 48 hours before shipping it, that's pretty much continuous duty. Realistically, no one listens to their gear that long every day ... unless you fall asleep on it lol.

In the second case, you exposed your ears to the M+M then went to watch TV, which has a completely different audio signature. In my experience, that alone will alter your perception of what another audio setup sounds like. Your TV audio isn't going to be anywhere near as sophisticated as the M+M, so sure they're going to sound better


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> <snip>
> 
> I don't see anything on the Schiit website that specifies their gear is rated for continuous operation, but if they run their gear at full blast for 48 hours before shipping it, that's pretty much continuous duty. Realistically, no one listens to their gear that long every day ... unless you fall asleep on it lol.
> 
> In the second case, you exposed your ears to the M+M then went to watch TV, which has a completely different audio signature. In my experience, that alone will alter your perception of what another audio setup sounds like. Your TV audio isn't going to be anywhere near as sophisticated as the M+M, so sure they're going to sound better


 
   
  While I don't, I know some people have reported that they just leave their Schiit on all the time.
   
  For the second case I'll have to respectfully disagree, although I admit it's an interesting theory. My main point was just that I listened for about 15 minutes, let them burn in for a couple hours (without me listening, so it wouldn't be me getting used to the sound signature), then listened again.


----------



## M-13

Nevermind...


----------



## IorekByrnison

My Valhalla showed up.. I'm still on my HD439s as the T70 shows up in a few more hours... but
   
  mother of god
  i've forgotten how to type
   
  how can something sound like this
   
  i've heard some very, very expensive solids but never really sat down with tubes
   
  holy. ****.


----------



## Armaegis

Just let your brain adjust for a bit before jumping to conclusions. Low impedance cans aren't exactly the Valhalla's strong suit.


----------



## IorekByrnison

No worries there... the T70, an impedance-monster, just showed up and _mother of god_
   
  i can't even imagine how these will sound on it burned in. *wow*.
   
  and the soundstage, holy what the soundstage. i don't get how people can say these have no bass*, not only am I am getting plenty of bass, it's all over the soundstage in the best way
   
  maybe i'll be coherent enough for a proper opinion post later but...
   
  Valhalla + T70 = OMG.
   
   
   
  *as aforementioned... impedance, impedance, impedance. not a problem for the Valhalla


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Do you think there will be a chance for Schiit to make a speaker amplifier? Or is that out of their "jurisdiction" so to speak?


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Do you think there will be a chance for Schiit to make a speaker amplifier? Or is that out of their "jurisdiction" so to speak?


 
   
  Check this out:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil
   
 The Schiit Ragnarok is a speaker amp as well as a universal headphone amp. Not yet in production though they expect it to be available by close of the year.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Jesus. I want those for the names alone. a DAC named Yggdrasil and an amp named Ragnarok? holy Schiit.
   
  Pic time of my new setup at work... the T70 is a plenty fine bass-monster, you just need to feed it tubes (and the spirits of fallen warriors)... the key to unlocking the bass: even though it's a high efficiency Tesla driver, that efficiency does not apply to the nearly 800 ohm bass. Run it on an iPhone or low-impedance oriented amp and yes, the Tesla magic will get you volume in the mids and highs despite it being a 250-rated set, but no, it won't do bass. Get something that can blast through the bass impedance and you're in business (the Valhalla).
   
  Probably thanks to the tubes, I also don't see anything of people's complaints of stabbing highs from the spike at 10k, just pure, un-painful crystalline clarity. The T70 and Valhalla together... a massive, massive soundstage, bass resonating throughout, detail enough to hear every little scrape and breath from the musicians, with solid warmth through the mids unlike anything I've ever heard. I used to be a Sennheiser loyalist, but then this happened. These are better than the pricepoint _opens_ I've heard. I never thought I'd say this, but the T70+Valhalla absolutely walks all over the HD650. I still love Sennheiser to death but, sorry 650...
   
  The T70 gets too much hate. Valhalla it, people.


----------



## UmustBKidn

iorekbyrnison said:


> Pic time of my new setup at work...




^ This

:: Drool :: 

/cry


----------



## UmustBKidn

m-13 said:


> Nevermind...




Oh come on, be brave.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Oh come on, be brave.


 
  Nah, I only discuss solid-state burn-in with people who have 15+ years of tube building experience. Unfortunately, you fall short by 6 months so you don't qualify.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

iorekbyrnison said:


> Jesus. I want those for the names alone. a DAC named Yggdrasil and an amp named Ragnarok? holy Schiit.
> 
> Pic time of my new setup at work...




http://www.uptontea.com


----------



## IorekByrnison

Lupicia's my brand of choice (the circle tins) - We're super lucky to have a real Lupicia store here in SF. Peet's also has some surprisingly nice higher grade releases this year.
   
  tea-fi.org
   
  tubes and tea every day~
   
   
  Question about my Valhalla's upkeep - it has four tubes. One burns out, so I buy the four-set from Schiit of replacements. Do I replace just that tube, just that channel (L/R), just that stage (I/O), or the whole set of four at once? I'm not 100% sure about how tube-matching and such apply across a 2x2 like this, and eventually that day will come.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

f- yeah!!!! Tea and hi-fi man, it is quite a combo. Now tea and HIFIMAN, that is something I want to experience


----------



## nfslmao

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Question about my Valhalla's upkeep - it has four tubes. One burns out, so I buy the four-set from Schiit of replacements. Do I replace just that tube, just that channel (L/R), just that stage (I/O), or the whole set of four at once? I'm not 100% sure about how tube-matching and such apply across a 2x2 like this, and eventually that day will come.


 
  A good question, but how would you determine which tube is at fault? I just assume that it would stop working and you wouldn't know which tube died. Unless there is a sure fire way to find that out, i think the only option is to replace the whole bunch.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Nah, I only discuss solid-state burn-in with people who have 15+ years of tube building experience. Unfortunately, you fall short by 6 months so you don't qualify.


 
   
  Oh come on, please. I promise I won't take it personally  Really. I enjoy a good intelligent argument.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





nfslmao said:


> A good question, but how would you determine which tube is at fault? I just assume that it would stop working and you wouldn't know which tube died. Unless there is a sure fire way to find that out, i think the only option is to replace the whole bunch.


 
  I figured the light would go out... does that not happen?


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I figured the light would go out... does that not happen?


 
   
  Left tube, left channel? Right tube, right channel? Or is that too easy?


----------



## nfslmao

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I figured the light would go out... does that not happen?


 
  whoops....completely forgot they lit up  Well that would make things easy....well the best way to get a proper answer is to you know......ask schiit about it.


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I figured the light would go out... does that not happen?


 
   
  Not every problem you'll ever have with a tube will cause it to stop lighting up.
   
  The light is caused by the cathod heater BTW.


----------



## Saraguie

There must be a Yes or NO answer to 'Does a Solid State amplifier 'burn in'? We are not talking about not checking to see if the assembly is correct but does it actually make a difference, change SQ past that.
   
  My Mojo and PWD.......sound so very good from the gate that I cannot tell.  And as a mere consumer without technical training, cannot answer that question.


----------



## BournePerfect

My Mjolnir definitely burned in after 100+ hours. The HD800s were pretty unlistenable to me up until that point. I'd think an LCD owner might not notice the burnin as much since it's a pretty synergistic combo from the get go. For the HD800 though, the treble finally became acceptable, the bass came around, and the entire presentation was less aggressive and more defined all the way around. This ss amp changed more than any other I've owned. I also found that different powercords make a difference with the Mjolnir (and Bifrost) as well. YMMV.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## bearFNF

Quote: 





saraguie said:


> There must be a Yes or NO answer to 'Does a Solid State amplifier 'burn in'? We are not talking about not checking to see if the assembly is correct but does it actually make a difference, change SQ past that.
> 
> My Mojo and PWD.......sound so very good from the gate that I cannot tell.  And as a mere consumer without technical training, cannot answer that question.


 
  FWIW -  my rev 1 Asgard 2 transformer hum got noticeably quieter after 50+ hours of use...does that mean it was 'burning-in" or just that it took that long to settle in.  The sound in that time period did change somewhat, but was it due to the amp or me?  Let's just say that the more I listen to a system the more familiar I become and the more details I notice and therefore _perceive_ it to be getting better...all part of the fun.


----------



## jexby

Daniel,
   
  can you provide some details on your "improved" power cables and the benefit you noticed?
  are you located somewhere with "clean" power and these cables plug directly in the wall on 115/125V, or do you use some sort of conditioning unit like a Furman AC-215A?
  thanks.
   
   
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> This ss amp changed more than any other I've owned. I also found that different powercords make a difference with the Mjolnir (and Bifrost) as well. YMMV.
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## Erukian

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> My Mjolnir definitely burned in after 100+ hours. The HD800s were pretty unlistenable to me up until that point. I'd think an LCD owner might not notice the burnin as much since it's a pretty synergistic combo from the get go. For the HD800 though, the treble finally became acceptable, the bass came around, and the entire presentation was less aggressive and more defined all the way around. This ss amp changed more than any other I've owned. I also found that different powercords make a difference with the Mjolnir (and Bifrost) as well. YMMV.
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Do you think that maybe it's your brain that's adjusting to the sound?
   
  Here's my two cents. Initially when you hook up the amp your ears are hearing a different sound than what you're used to. Then after an arbitrary number of hours, your brain figures out how to ignore the information it doesn't want and you can tune into the information that was missing on your old gear. 
   
  Think of a fan turned on in a room while you're watching TV, after a bit you mostly ignore it because your brain is focused on what it wants to hear, the dialogue of what you're watching. I suspect our brains do the same discarding to super revealing dacs/amps in a similar way and after time, we just hear the good stuff.


----------



## Saraguie

Quote: 





erukian said:


> Do you think that maybe it's your brain that's adjusting to the sound?
> 
> Here's my two cents. Initially when you hook up the amp your ears are hearing a different sound than what you're used to. Then after an arbitrary number of hours, your brain figures out how to ignore the information it doesn't want and you can tune into the information that was missing on your old gear.
> 
> Think of a fan turned on in a room while you're watching TV, after a bit you mostly ignore it because your brain is focused on what it wants to hear, the dialogue of what you're watching. I suspect our brains do the same discarding to super revealing dacs/amps in a similar way and after time, we just hear the good stuff.


 
  I just searched the FAQs on their website and could not find a Q&A about burn-in.
   
  I wonder what Schiit's official position is?  Is burn-in full of :>)  Had to get it in. lol
   
  Jason, any comments?


----------



## gefski

saraguie said:


> There must be a Yes or NO answer to 'Does a Solid State amplifier 'burn in'? We are not talking about not checking to see if the assembly is correct but does it actually make a difference, change SQ past that.
> 
> My Mojo and PWD.......sound so very good from the gate that I cannot tell.  And as a mere consumer without technical training, cannot answer that question.




Easy for me to give a wishy-washy answer.

PERHAPS some improvement (especially with transducers), but I can't with confidence separate "component burn-in" from "listener burn-in".

I definitely have not experienced the "...this thing sounded like crap when I got it, but now sounds incredible..." phenomenon.


----------



## vaed

EDIT: Solved my own problem.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





jexby said:


> Daniel,
> 
> can you provide some details on your "improved" power cables and the benefit you noticed?
> are you located somewhere with "clean" power and these cables plug directly in the wall on 115/125V, or do you use some sort of conditioning unit like a Furman AC-215A?
> thanks.


 
  Yes-I swapped my Decware (SPC) which I've always used, with a Cuprum Copper (pure copper) and the results were immediate-the copper almost seemed like there was a warm haze (not good) over the entire spectrum, like everything was somewhat muted, like listening through a slight fog if you will. Switching back to the silver plated copper Decware instantly brought back a much improved clarity thoughout-like all that fog had gone away. Very easy to notice really, I was quite surprised as I had never experimented with power cable swaps before. I'm now curious how a pure silver cord might sound, but I assume the cost would be ridiculous, especially with these 10AWG mosters. I did not compare against any generic iec cables however. I also have both the Mjolnir and Eximus plugged into a Tripp Lite isolaton transformer-like always.
   
  I've been using pure silver xlrs this entire time with the DP1>>MJ, but tonight I'll try swapping out for the Decware RCA's (also pure silver) to test defferences there as well. Not sure how much of the changes, if any, would be due to the SE vs balanced signal though...
  Quote: 





erukian said:


> Do you think that maybe it's your brain that's adjusting to the sound?
> 
> Here's my two cents. Initially when you hook up the amp your ears are hearing a different sound than what you're used to. Then after an arbitrary number of hours, your brain figures out how to ignore the information it doesn't want and you can tune into the information that was missing on your old gear.
> 
> Think of a fan turned on in a room while you're watching TV, after a bit you mostly ignore it because your brain is focused on what it wants to hear, the dialogue of what you're watching. I suspect our brains do the same discarding to super revealing dacs/amps in a similar way and after time, we just hear the good stuff.


 
   Nope-not one tiny bit actually. I BARELY listened perhaps 5 minutes the first 3 nights because it was much to harsh for my ears. Then on the fourth night (100 hours-ish)-most but not all of the harshness vanished. It became a very enjoyable amp for my HD800s, if still not quite ideal. The mids through this thing are GREAT though-best I've heard on an ss amp for sure.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Yes-I swapped my Decware (SPC) which I've always used, with a Cuprum Copper (pure copper) and the results were immediate-the copper almost seemed like there was a warm haze (not good) over the entire spectrum, like everything was somewhat muted, like listening through a slight fog if you will. Switching back to the silver plated copper Decware instantly brought back a much improved clarity thoughout-like all that fog had gone away. Very easy to notice really, I was quite surprised as I had never experimented with power cable swaps before. I'm now curious how a pure silver cord might sound, but I assume the cost would be ridiculous, especially with these 10AWG mosters. I did not compare against any generic iec cables however. I also have both the Mjolnir and Eximus plugged into a Tripp Lite isolaton transformer-like always.
> 
> I've been using pure silver xlrs this entire time with the DP1>>MJ, but tonight I'll try swapping out for the Decware RCA's (also pure silver) to test defferences there as well. Not sure how much of the changes, if any, would be due to the SE vs balanced signal though...
> Nope-not one tiny bit actually. I BARELY listened perhaps 5 minutes the first 3 nights because it was much to harsh for my ears. Then on the fourth night (100 hours-ish)-most but not all of the harshness vanished. It became a very enjoyable amp for my HD800s, if still not quite ideal. The mids through this thing are GREAT though-best I've heard on an ss amp for sure.
> ...


 
   
  What DAC did you listen to them through?


----------



## BournePerfect

Eximus DP-1.
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: Cable swapping was done only on the MJ. I always had a second Decware on the DP-1.


----------



## commtrd

My Mjolnir sounds the same to me now after >500 hrs listening as it did right out of the box. 
Have not received SW cable yet but doubt seriously there will be any definable change in SQ there either. Just don't buy into the burn in. Tubes age but SS is what it is.


----------



## paradoxper

I found Mjolnir really settled down after the 100-ish hour mark. Gungnir to some extent as well. 
   
  Burn-in is one of those highly debatable topics. Until you experience it...and even then, who knows if it's not all in your head.


----------



## tuna47

I had my stock HE500 silver coated copper fixed up by Peter at DHC added nylon cover and damping material I enjoy the sound of the silver crisper than pure copper


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I found Mjolnir really settled down after the 100-ish hour mark. Gungnir to some extent as well.
> 
> Burn-in is one of those highly debatable topics. Until you experience it...and even then, who knows if it's not all in your head.


 

 How were your experiences with the Mojo/Gung stack for the HD800?


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Eximus DP-1.
> 
> -Daniel
> 
> edit: Cable swapping was done only on the MJ. I always had a second Decware on the DP-1.


 

 Did you ever have the Mojo with Gungnir through the HD800? I'm looking for more opinions on this combo.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I had my stock HE500 silver coated copper fixed up by Peter at DHC added nylon cover and damping material I enjoy the sound of the silver crisper than pure copper


 
  Wrong thread buddy.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I found Mjolnir really settled down after the 100-ish hour mark. Gungnir to some extent as well.
> 
> Burn-in is one of those highly debatable topics. Until you experience it...and even then, who knows if it's not all in your head.


 
  +1
  I experienced burn-in with every piece of Schiit gear I've owned. Multiple amps/dacs, all of them. I think 50~100 is a good number. Belief in burn-in doesn't really hurt anybody or their wallets, so not sure why people get hostile over it. Burn-in happens naturally anyway, after a month or two. Now I'm against people saying 1000+ hours, but saying 24~100 hours seems pretty harmless to me. And umm.. yes this is my subjective personal experience of course and YMMV, etc, etc...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> How were your experiences with the Mojo/Gung stack for the HD800?


 
  I really liked them. I thought the Gungnir was a bit too strong and upgraded to the M51, in which, came off as a tad bit too mellow.
  Ultimately both were very good with Mojo and HD800, it's just a give and take relationship.
   
  I chalked it up to the HD800 being a tough nut to crack. Both were stellar with the LCD-3 and even Mad Dogs.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





commtrd said:


> My Mjolnir sounds the same to me now after >500 hrs listening as it did right out of the box.
> Have not received SW cable yet but doubt seriously there will be any definable change in SQ there either. Just don't buy into the burn in. Tubes age but SS is what it is.


 
   
  I have to agree with you on this one.  
   
  Although, I never heard a brand new MJ.  I heard a well burned in one.  It was still a forward sounding amp none the less.  Just as much as the BHA-1.  It may have calmed down come some.  But not to the fact of it not being a forward sounding amp.  That's its nature and what makes it a good match for the LCDs and not so much for the HD800s IMO...


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> +1
> I experienced burn-in with every piece of Schiit gear I've owned. Multiple amps/dacs, all of them. I think 50~100 is a good number. Belief in burn-in doesn't really hurt anybody or their wallets, so not sure why people get hostile over it. Burn-in happens naturally anyway, after a month or two. Now I'm against people saying 1000+ hours, but saying 24~100 hours seems pretty harmless to me. And umm.. yes this is my subjective personal experience of course and YMMV, etc, etc...


 
   
   Burn-in is plausible in certain things like tubes, but in headphones and speakers it is more a matter of getting used to the performance.
   
  "And umm.. yes this is my subjective personal experience of course and YMMV, etc, etc..."


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Burn-in is plausible in certain things like tubes, but in headphones and speakers it is more a matter of getting used to the performance.
> 
> "And umm.. yes this is my subjective personal experience of course and YMMV, etc, etc..."


 
  Stop using my eloquent copyrighted speech. I'll sue man. I'll sue you so hard you confess to burn-in or go broke.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Fellow schiitheads, I come bearing news of new schiit to add to your schiitpiles, from the king of schiit himself. 
   
    
  My E-mail to Schiit:


> Hey guys,[...]
> 
> I write because I have a product request of sorts. [...] As much as I am dearly in love with my Valhalla, I find myself going and unplugging the Modi to switch to my computer speakers whenever I want to game, watch YouTube videos etc. as those feel like a waste of tubes.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Jason's Response: 





> There'll be something like that coming soon, but in the smaller chassis size.
> 
> All the best,
> Jason Stoddard
> ...


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Did you ever have the Mojo with Gungnir through the HD800? I'm looking for more opinions on this combo.


 
  No I saw no reason to try the Gungnir since I had the Eximus. Plus there's a few unsatisfied HD800/Gungnir peeps out there...mostly attempting to shift blame to the Mjolnir lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Fellow schiitheads, I come bearing news of new schiit to add to your schiitpiles, from the king of schiit himself.


 
  Jason's answer is clear, but your question is incomprehensible to me. I tried reading your question to him twice and my brain failed. What in the world were you asking? So what is the new product in your opinion?


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Jason's answer is clear, but your question is incomprehensible to me. I tried reading your question to him twice and my brain failed. What in the world were you asking? So what is the new product in your opinion?


 

 My guess is a switch.


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





rem0o said:


> My guess is a switch.


 
  That was my understanding too


----------



## NZheadcase

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Fellow schiitheads, I come bearing news of new schiit to add to your schiitpiles, from the king of schiit himself.


 
   
  good quality Y-splitters from the Bifrost do the job for me. I just turn off whichever amp I don't need. Clean, quick, and cheap.


----------



## pelli

Just came across this on the deals thread:
   
   
  "Originally Posted by *Whitetriton* 



 Schiit Lyr is on Amazon, sold by Schiit Audio, for $399 +$18.75 shipping (3 left in stock at time of posting this).  On the Schiit website, it sells for $449. 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-03-Lyr-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B004T335BK/"
  
  
  
 Any chance their clearing out old stock for a Lyr II release?


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





pelli said:


> Just came across this on the deals thread:
> 
> 
> "Originally Posted by *Whitetriton*
> ...


 
  Nah. It's just B-stock. Not brand new. They get occassion B-Stock amps from customer returns. It's not like they had a fire sale of the Asgard 1 when going to 2.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





m-13 said:


> Stop using my eloquent copyrighted speech. I'll sue man. I'll sue you so hard you confess to burn-in or go broke.


 
   
  Lol alright, I won't use it again OR I'll put your name after it


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Fellow schiitheads, I come bearing news of new schiit to add to your schiitpiles, from the king of schiit himself.


 
   
  Sounds like a DAC with multiple outputs


----------



## joebobbilly

Hmmm I'm wondering if doing Tyll's foam mod for the HD800 would remove a bit of that sharp treble from the Gungnir then?
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod


----------



## Armaegis

You're planning on applying a headphone mod to an amp?


----------



## joebobbilly

LOL I meant to the HD800 in the event i do get them.


----------



## UmustBKidn

For what it's worth, I've posted a budget-fi comparison including the M+M stack here:
   
Schiit Magni + Bravo V2 with Schiit Modi + Pure i-20


----------



## bigjohn1

That is awesome!
   
  I was just experiencing the same issue (though not with a tube amp, just wanted to route through my sound card to my speakers instead of my Modi/Magni to my headphones).  For a lot of my gaming, I prefer just my standard speakers, which are 5.1 surround, unless it is late night and I will use headphones then.
   
  I will be very interested to see what they have and be one of the first in line to pick one up as soon as it comes out.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Has anyone else noticed an increase in volume efficiency on their gear with burn-in? I took the Valhalla/T70 home from the office this weekend and ran them for most of it to burn them in. Before, when I first got them, I was comfortably listening at the loud level I find most comfortable with the volume pot at 12:00, but now, sitting here in the office on Monday, with probably 60-80 hours of burn in on top of the listening I'd done, it feels like I'm getting the same volume level I like as before with the volume pot only up to, say, 10:30. It doesn't seem all that crazy to me that burn-in might do this with stubborn, high impedance cans and an all-tube amp, I'm just curious if it's A Thing. 
   
  After this burn-in, most of which I wasn't listening during, the setup sounds much, much better than the awesome it already did. The T70 in particular I knew would need some real breaking in, and it has opened up substantially in the low-mids and below, and become much clearer and gentler in the highs, as one would expect from a more flexible driver. I don't know what if anything is contributed in terms of the Valhalla or the tubes themselves burning in, but testing with both the Valhalla and the Magni, the T70 has changed very, very noticeably compared to when I unboxed it, and I'm more in love with it than ever. Major impedance, major burn in... these are some stubborn, picky cans, but oh so worth it.


----------



## Armaegis

Are you sure it's not just your ears adjusting or the ambient noise level being lower? If the gain of your amp is increasing over time, something is very wrong.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Are you sure it's not just your ears adjusting or the ambient noise level being lower? If the gain of your amp is increasing over time, something is very wrong.


 
  I am quite sure, though I think it's more likely due to a change in the drivers rather than in the amp, and the increase levelled off partway through burn in - i noticed it at home, as well. it coincided with the sound opening up on the cans - they got louder as they got better through burn-in. I don't think it's the Valhalla


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I am quite sure, though I think it's more likely due to a change in the drivers rather than in the amp, and the increase levelled off partway through burn in - i noticed it at home, as well. it coincided with the sound opening up on the cans - they got louder as they got better through burn-in. I don't think it's the Valhalla


 
  Probably the ear pads.


----------



## ab initio

Quote:  





> when I first got them, I was comfortably listening at the loud level I find most comfortable with the volume pot at 12:00, but now, sitting here in the office on Monday, with probably 60-80 hours of burn in on top of the listening I'd done, it feels like I'm getting the same volume level I like as before with the volume pot only up to, say, 10:30.


 
  What you are describing---the equi-loudness volume shifting from 12 to 10:30 on a 15A contour potentiometer--- is a 6 dB change. I can assure you that this isn't your hardware changing 6dB unless something is very very wrong.
   
  I suspect Armaegis has hit  the nail on the head.
  Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Are you sure it's not just your ears adjusting or the ambient noise level being lower? If the gain of your amp is increasing over time, something is very wrong.


 
   
   
  Cheers


----------



## GoldfishX

Yahoo!!! I've had great success with the Lyr at home, so I took a flyer on the Magni in my office cube to drive my Mad Dogs.
   
  Excellent all around and I'm not even using line-out yes (I'm using a Y splitter out of my Cowon D2 headphone jack, am getting a DX50 for proper lineout functionality). The Dogs are slighty tough to drive - the mids are sucked out on my portable Leckerton amp -, but no issue for Magni so far. Mighty fine bass, mids, vocal clarity, everything really. Plenty of headroom to spare too...I have the Cowon on 40/50 volume and the volume is perfect around 1:00. For the price, Magni is ridiculously good. The Leckerton was almost 3x the price!
   
  Kudos Schiit!


----------



## IorekByrnison

I just got authorization from IT for them to install the Bifrost drivers if I get one... which was one of my (who am I kidding, my only) concerns about upgrading from the Modi, which I don't need admin to use. 
   
  LET'S. GET. FINANCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE!!!
   
  Uberfrost USB here I come. 
   
  edit - trigger: pulled. uber usb. went for next day shipping while I was at it. so hype, cannot wait.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> edit - trigger: pulled. uber usb. went for next day shipping while I was at it. so hype, cannot wait.


 
  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  You are the poster child for Head-Fi. Congrats and enjoy that UberFrost!


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I just got authorization from IT for them to install the Bifrost drivers if I get one... which was one of my (who am I kidding, my only) concerns about upgrading from the Modi, which I don't need admin to use.
> 
> LET'S. GET. FINANCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE!!!
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats and happy listening!  I'm only a week into using my Uberfrost and loving it.


----------



## IorekByrnison

I figure this one's likely...
   
  Does anyone have experience going from a Modi to a Bifrost/Uberfrost, with the same gear otherwise? I am curious just how much a difference I should expect. I know a DAC can (and should) only do so much, and the Modi's stellar already, so it can't be immense... right? Also curious about people's opinions on the difference the Uber upgrade makes, alone. 
   
  What kind of upgrade am I in for here? I don't expect nearly the same bang for my buck as the Magni->Valhalla swap, of course, but I get the feeling I'm in for something very noticeable.


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I figure this one's likely...
> 
> Does anyone have experience going from a Modi to a Bifrost/Uberfrost, with the same gear otherwise? I am curious just how much a difference I should expect. I know a DAC can (and should) only do so much, and the Modi's stellar already, so it can't be immense... right? Also curious about people's opinions on the difference the Uber upgrade makes, alone.
> 
> What kind of upgrade am I in for here? I don't expect nearly the same bang for my buck as the Magni->Valhalla swap, of course, but I get the feeling I'm in for something very noticeable.


 
  For what it's worth I went from the non-uber-Bifrost to the Modi. The Modi is a great little DAC. If I had to put a number to it, I think it gives about 80% of the performance of the non-uber-Bifrost. So I'm assuming the UberFrost will give you a noticeable jump in sound quality. It's probably worth every penny. Not much better out there for under $500 IMO.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

I know this topic is about Schiit products but I just wanna say I just ordered the HE-500 on Amazon and chose 1 day shipping with 15 minutes left to order so I can get it tomorrow.  If I waited 16 minutes I would've had to gotten it on Friday.  I am not the richest person and I work at a job making less than $10/hr and I feel kinda horrible that I chose to buy headphones instead of more important things so I hope I made the right decision.  Looks like for the next 6 months I gotta go on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich diet for breakfast, lunch and dinner to save money.


----------



## ab initio

The biggest difference between the Modi and the Bifrost is 0.5V
   
  The Modi spits out 1.5V whereas the Bifrost can spit out 2V, so there will be an extra 2.5dB available. How that extra 0.5V pushes your tubes, I don't know.
   
  The other major difference between Modi and Bifrost is superior SPDIF implementation on the Bifrost. I don't listen to SPDIF on the Modi because it doesn't exist
   
  Like M-13 said, the Modi does a pretty good job at what it's designed for and 80% is probably close---it should actually be more like 75% ( 1.5V / 2V ).
   
  Cheers!


----------



## GoldfishX

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> I know this topic is about Schiit products but I just wanna say I just ordered the HE-500 on Amazon and chose 1 day shipping with 15 minutes left to order so I can get it tomorrow.  If I waited 16 minutes I would've had to gotten it on Friday.  I am not the richest person and I work at a job making less than $10/hr and I feel kinda horrible that I chose to buy headphones instead of more important things so I hope I made the right decision.  Looks like for the next 6 months I gotta go on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich diet for breakfast, lunch and dinner to save money.


 
   
  To make this relevant, I'm happy that Schiit aimed their products at powering hard-to-power headphones. That gives sort of a peace of mind about their power. I like they even say on their website that Magni isn't equipped to power the HE-6.
   
  I was looking at the Woo Wee (which converts regular headphone amps to power electrostatic headphones!) and wondering if it would pair well with a Lyr and the SR-007. Any thoughts? Anyone been down that road yet?


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> To make this relevant, I'm happy that Schiit aimed their products at powering hard-to-power headphones. That gives sort of a peace of mind about their power. I like they even say on their website that Magni isn't equipped to power the HE-6.
> 
> I was looking at the Woo Wee (which converts regular headphone amps to power electrostatic headphones!) and wondering if it would pair well with a Lyr and the SR-007. Any thoughts? Anyone been down that road yet?


 
   
  They say that, but the M&M were quite respectable when I tried the HE-6 and K1000s with them at a meet earlier this year. Would more power be even better? Yeah, probably. But they were still surprisingly enjoyable even out of the budget stack.


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> They say that, but the M&M were quite respectable when I tried the HE-6 and K1000s with them at a meet earlier this year. Would more power be even better? Yeah, probably. But they were still surprisingly enjoyable even out of the budget stack.


 
   





   
  Just say it's not so...


----------



## sjeffrey

New owner of Uber Bifrost here.  I was introduced in the world of head-fi about a year ago when many late nights in the home office and a baby sleeping in the next room forced me to put on some headphones
   
  First purchase were the HD650s and shortly after I got the Xonar Essence STX.  I ended up returning it because I was hearing popping sounds or something like that.  I then switch over to Fiio E17+E09k and was pretty happy with that but I guess I got the bug by then.
   
  My first impressions after few hours of listening with the Bifrost in USB mode compared to the E17 is the sound stage feels indeed larger.  I also found that I get deeper lows and higher highs.  This was with me using component cables as RCAs as I don't have quality RCAs yet and a cheap USB cable.  Maybe new RCAs will make it sound even better.  Oh and I should mention that my setup was to route the Bifrost to my E09k for now.  So far I think the upgrade was definitely worth it.  I have to say though, the E17 sounds pretty good for the price for my untrained ears.
   
  Next on the way is Bottlehead Crack with Speedball.  Everyone seems to rave about this paired with the 650s so I am really anxious to receive my kit to start the building.  To be honest the minute I pulled the trigger on the Bifrost I eas a bit disappointed I didn't get the Valhalla as well.  I sure it would sound good and would be a nice little kit on my desk.  Also on my short list was the Woo WA6 and WA6-SE, although not at all in the same price range
   
  I'm hoping that Uber Biforst + Bottlehead Crack + HD650 will be a setup that I will be content with for a good little while.
   
  Steph


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Just say it's not so...


 
   
  ?
   
  It was a fun experiment at a meet while I still had the M&M, and I enjoyed how it sounded. I'm sure they scale up the more power you throw at them, but I was quite impressed that they didn't sound horrible even from the M&M.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> The biggest difference between the Modi and the Bifrost is 0.5V
> 
> The Modi spits out 1.5V whereas the Bifrost can spit out 2V, so there will be an extra 2.5dB available. How that extra 0.5V pushes your tubes, I don't know.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Initially when I read this I was a bit disappointed and confused - all that extra stuff on the PCB and hundreds of dollars just for a little more output power? ...and then I realized just what a notably stronger signal into the Valhalla would do for the sound alone and got very excited. That, and the laptop dock I run the Modi from is so power starved that I get cut-outs every time the hard drive spins up while the processor is running heavy, or the laptop's power is otherwise overtaxed - so having a plug-in DAC alone will be a godsend.
   
  As I understand it, the Bifrost also has over the Modi a few features I'd like to understand better, aside from the support for higher bitrate/depth data:
   
  1. "increased isolation[..]" (from EM interference?)
  2. "[..]and filtering" (what)
   
  The Schiit site also explains the Uber card's quality upgrade as a result of "removing capacitors from the signal path" via a DC servo. Why is this a benefit / what does having capacitors in the signal path do that is undesireable? Does the Uber's "discrete analog stage" add further juice to the output signal compared to stock, or is it just amp-neutral processing of some kind?
   
  A final question, from a friend of mine who isn't much for head-fi but is a speaker nerd fascinated by our strange obsession with tiny headspeakers - There is a quote on the site:
  "Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, the Gen 2 USB input outperforms external USB-SPDIF converters that cost several times as much."
  Q: If SPDIF and USB are both carrying a lossless digital signal to the same converter, why would there be any performance difference whatsoever?


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





sjeffrey said:


> I'm hoping that Uber Biforst + Bottlehead Crack + HD650 will be a setup that I will be content with for a good little while.
> 
> Steph


 

 It will be if you stop reading the forums and hide your wallet...


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





sjeffrey said:


> I'm hoping that Uber Biforst + Bottlehead Crack + HD650 will be a setup that I will be content with for a good little while.
> 
> Steph


 
   
  If those were HD600's that would be my near end-game setup (HE500's.... mmmmmmmmmmmm)


----------



## IorekByrnison

Yet another reason Schiit is the absolute best brand in head-fi stacks:
   
  I ordered my Uberfrost USB with $50 1-day USPS shipping in the hopes it would arrive on Friday because I'm an impatient baby. It unfortunately only shipped out today... but my shipment mail came with the comment "The comments for your order are: You have received a courtesy upgrade to FedEx Overnight.  Your order is shipping today via FedEx with tracking number [...]. Thank you very much.  Please allow 12 hours for current tracking information to be reported."
   
That's _$28 more _of shipping that will get it to me earlier and with more certainty, free, because I was impatient enough to order 1-day shipping and yet they didn't get the box out. I didn't ask for it, or even ask a question about when it would ship... they just decided to do it.
   
  Thanks, Jason & co. - you guys own.


----------



## Themorganlett85

I don't have any Schiit products just yet but I'll be ordering the Valhalla and the Bifrost in the very near future and I absolutely can not wait. Also be ordering some Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM Headphones. It's gonna be amazing to say the least


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





themorganlett85 said:


> I don't have any Schiit products just yet but I'll be ordering the Valhalla and the Bifrost in the very near future and I absolutely can not wait. Also be ordering some Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM Headphones. It's gonna be amazing to say the least


 
   
   
  I haven't heard the Valhalla, but I've read enough reviews, it should pair really well with the headphones you'll be getting.
   
  Designs like the Valhalla do especially well with high impedance headphones.


----------



## jaywillin

well, i've been puttering along with my little fiio e09k, and little dot i+ for my alessandro ms2, and since i recently got the ps500, i thought i should get a better amp, sooooo  i've just bought, today, a lyr off the sale forum now i know the lyr is very powerful, and you have to be careful, but should i have gone another way ? i like tubes, i like the line out, is this something i'd be better off selling and going another way ?


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> well, i've been puttering along with my little fiio e09k, and little dot i+ for my alessandro ms2, and since i recently got the ps500, i thought i should get a better amp, sooooo  i've just bought, today, a lyr off the sale forum now i know the lyr is very powerful, and you have to be careful, but should i have gone another way ? i like tubes, i like the line out, is this something i'd be better off selling and going another way ?


 
   
   
  I think you'll love the Lyr, I sure love mine!  What tubes are coming with it?


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I think you'll love the Lyr, I sure love mine!  What tubes are coming with it?


 

 i'm not sure, it was an impulse buy, and this was the 4th lyr i had inquired about today, the first 3 already sold, and when the seller said yes, i said "i'll take it !! and what's you paypal ?? lol


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> I think you'll love the Lyr, I sure love mine!  What tubes are coming with it?


 

 it comes with the GE tubes, and it has the "soft start", that makes me feel a little safer, i'm usually good about unplugging when not in use
  turn on unplugged, volume down, etc, but, mistakes can be made ! lol


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> i'm not sure, it was an impulse buy, and this was the 4th lyr i had inquired about today, the first 3 already sold, and when the seller said yes, i said "i'll take it !! and what's you paypal ?? lol


 
   
   
  Well, one of the great things about the Lyr is that you can make significant changes to the sound signature by swapping in different tubes.  There are right now two threads devoted to just this subject.  And there are great tubes out there that won't cost an arm or a leg also.  Of course, some of the nicer tubes can be pretty pricey, but you will definitely be able to find tubes that will suit your ears and your wallet.  Give the tubes that come with it a fair try first, it may very well be that they suit you just fine.


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> Well, one of the great things about the Lyr is that you can make significant changes to the sound signature by swapping in different tubes.  There are right now two threads devoted to just this subject.  And there are great tubes out there that won't cost an arm or a leg also.  Of course, some of the nicer tubes can be pretty pricey, but you will definitely be able to find tubes that will suit your ears and your wallet.  Give the tubes that come with it a fair try first, it may very well be that they suit you just fine.


 

 oh yeah, i've had tubes before, i have a little do i+, and a g3 now, each with multiple tubes/pairs , i'll be getting rid of those now, i suppose


----------



## IorekByrnison

the uberfrost just showed up and i swapped it in place of the modi
   
   
  mother of god...
   
  what
   
  how is this even
   
  i don't
   
  how can a DAC possibly make this much difference holy hell


----------



## Themorganlett85

So I know there's countless threads about the Sennheiser HD 650 and the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro but I wanted to see if any of you guys have either or and which do you think sounds better on the Schiit amps and dacs. I thought I was settled on the DT 990 but I'm still about 50/50 so any help would be amazing, and before anyone says it I've spent the last two days searching this and many other forums trying to get this answer so I'm not just trying to take the "lazy" way out.


----------



## sjeffrey

Quote: 





themorganlett85 said:


> So I know there's countless threads about the Sennheiser HD 650 and the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro but I wanted to see if any of you guys have either or and which do you think sounds better on the Schiit amps and dacs. I thought I was settled on the DT 990 but I'm still about 50/50 so any help would be amazing, and before anyone says it I've spent the last two days searching this and many other forums trying to get this answer so I'm not just trying to take the "lazy" way out.


 

 I don't think you'll get a definitive answer.  It really comes down to your preference.  FWIT, I don't think you can go wrong either way.  Maybe if you post your music preference other people can chime in a bit better?


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





themorganlett85 said:


> So I know there's countless threads about the Sennheiser HD 650 and the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro but I wanted to see if any of you guys have either or and which do you think sounds better on the Schiit amps and dacs. I thought I was settled on the DT 990 but I'm still about 50/50 so any help would be amazing, and before anyone says it I've spent the last two days searching this and many other forums trying to get this answer so I'm not just trying to take the "lazy" way out.


 

 HD650 --> Rounded sound, laid-back, mid-bass emphasis.
 DT990 --> Fast, sparkly, agressive.

 Choose!


----------



## M-13

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> the uberfrost just showed up and i swapped it in place of the modi
> 
> 
> mother of god...
> ...


 
  Yup DACs make a HUGE difference for me as well. If only people knew right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Funny post by the way, but I was totally in your shoes when I got my Bifrost long ago...


----------



## Eee Pee

I'm in the club now, got a Mjolnir today.  Using Senn HD 600s as I had the stock cable doing nothing so I put an XLR on it.  Got the 700s and 800s to do later, or get another cable for them.  SACD/CD player from Sony and using single endedly for now.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Quote: 





sjeffrey said:


> I don't think you'll get a definitive answer.  It really comes down to your preference.  FWIT, I don't think you can go wrong either way.  Maybe if you post your music preference other people can chime in a bit better?


 
  I really listen to anything and everything besides country. Lots of classic rock, hip-hop, dubstep and everything in between.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

eee pee said:


> I'm in the club now, got a Mjolnir today.  Using Senn HD 600s as I had the stock cable doing nothing so I put an XLR on it.  Got the 700s and 800s to do later, or get another cable for them.  SACD/CD player from Sony and using single endedly for now.




Congrats dude! Mjolnir is a gear amp, I bet it would pair amazingly with the 600s


----------



## jaywillin

i have a tracking number for my lyr !!


----------



## Eee Pee

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> Congrats dude! Mjolnir is a gear amp, I bet it would pair amazingly with the 600s


 
  That's the one that made the most sense out of the three.  More of a casual set up than the microscope 800s, and whatever about the 700s.  Not worry about the tubes in the Sonett.  Just sit back and kick it!
   
  And dang this thing goes loud!


----------



## SoupRKnowva

eee pee said:


> That's the one that made the most sense out of the three.  More of a casual set up than the microscope 800s, and whatever about the 700s.  Not worry about the tubes in the Sonett.  Just sit back and kick it!
> 
> And dang this thing goes loud!  :blink:




You know what else it goes great with? A nice pair of LCD-3s


----------



## Eee Pee

Yeah yeah, we all know that.  Kinda curious about the new Alpha Dog, too.  For a closed set, because my new neighbor's yapper dog doesn't shut up sometimes.  Again, just for a daily driver set up, not end game or whatever you want to call it.


----------



## kothganesh

souprknowva said:


> You know what else it goes great with? A nice pair of LCD-3s




Oh yeah baby ! Rocking with them right now !


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> the uberfrost just showed up and i swapped it in place of the modi
> 
> 
> mother of god...
> ...


 

 Yes, I do argue that DACs make a bigger difference than the Amp (so long as it's supplying sufficient power). Source is very important... it's like they say "garbage in, garbage out", so the source makes quite a big difference.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Obligatory picture of the Schiit I keep at work, now that it's endgame.


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Obligatory picture of the Schiit I keep at work, now that it's endgame.


 

 I saw a daskeyboard ultimate...?


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





kn19h7 said:


> I saw a daskeyboard ultimate...?


 
  usutsu shimasu...
   
  (yes)


----------



## kn19h7

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> usutsu shimasu...
> 
> (yes)


 

 おお、どもっす！
   
  Btw, so rare to see someone actually use a blank keyboard...


----------



## preproman

Quote: 





eee pee said:


> Yeah yeah, we all know that.  Kinda curious about the new Alpha Dog, too.  For a closed set, because my new neighbor's yapper dog doesn't shut up sometimes.  Again, just for a daily driver set up, not end game or whatever you want to call it.


 
   
  Should go pretty well together..


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> i have a tracking number for my lyr !!


 
   
   
  The waiting is the hardest part...


----------



## nelamvr6

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Obligatory picture of the Schiit I keep at work, now that it's endgame.


 
  Nice!


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





nelamvr6 said:


> The waiting is the hardest part...


 

 fed ex says tomorrow, not too shabby


----------



## jaywillin

hey, on the lyr, the line out, are the tubes in the circuit ?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> hey, on the lyr, the line out, are the tubes in the circuit ?


 

 Being that it is how the preamp stage works I am going to guess absolutely yes....


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> Being that it is how the preamp stage works I am going to guess absolutely yes....


 

 hello georgia ! i'm from macon, spent the last 10 years in helen before moving to north bama, (i miss georgia, especially the mountains)
  i was guessing it was, the schiit website makes no mention either way that i can see


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> hello georgia ! i'm from macon, spent the last 10 years in helen before moving to north bama, (i miss georgia, especially the mountains)
> i was guessing it was, the schiit website makes no mention either way that i can see


 

 Yeah, it's pretty vague on the pre out, not sure if it even mentions it!  It does for the Asgard 2


----------



## jaywillin

jmsaxon69 said:


> Yeah, it's pretty vague on the pre out, not sure if it even mentions it!  It does for the Asgard 2



Confirmed with Jason, tubes in the pre out


----------



## NightFlight

kothganesh said:


> Jay,
> 
> that was great info. I've been driving myself up the wall thinking about a need to upgrade my DAC (to be read as spend more). Your point is hence well taken. Sometimes a poor recording is a poor recording period and my mind plays games like "...if only I have a better DAC, a balanced DAC etc etc ". I suppose the Bifrost is a good enough DAC to take care of most of the perceptibly-imperceptible jitter.





Jitter destroys soundstage, accuracy and detail. Almost everything actually. A well clocked source is obvious when a/b'd on a revealing system. Harder to notice on headphones, since the depth of set and stage is not nearly as evident. Jitter and turntables have nothing in common. I believe you might be thinking of wow and flutter that come out of systems that go straight down to DC.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Yes, I do argue that DACs make a bigger difference than the Amp (so long as it's supplying sufficient power). Source is very important... it's like they say "garbage in, garbage out", so the source makes quite a big difference.


 
   
  Wouldn't you say they make equal difference? I would put more weight on the source as well maybe 60% on the source, 40% to amp depending on your headphone of course(just generalizing here), so I suppose I agree with you but I would stress the importance of the amp just as much, because you'll never hear all those amazing details without a chain of components that offer such clarity.
   
  I don't think head-fi really stresses the importance of having a solid DAC. When I was new to hifi it didn't really make sense to me the importance of a dac, and most of the new users and noobie discussions really skip over that part and just.. well I guess it's just a lot of fanboy stuff going on over whatever the current trend is. Not exactly people going legion status over DACs (even with schiit products which seem to have quite a few fanatics). I think the more informed people tend to stay away from that sort of discussion because it's easy to get beat down, and the people in those threads seem happy so why intrude.  Anyway *IorekByrnison *enjoy your new uberfrost. Seems like a great buy. The original was pretty nice, and I'm sure the upgrade fills in some of the weaknesses which would make a very strong contender for that price point.


----------



## jaywillin

i'm listening to the lyr and my ps500's, wow, i thought the LD 1+ was good, well it is, but......


----------



## IorekByrnison

With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
   
  What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides. 
   
  The Modi seems like it "succeeds at providing a sufficiently clean signal"
   
  ...and then you hear an Uberfrost.
   
  Amp: $350
  Headphones: $450
  DAC: $550
   
  To my old newbie self, that price-priority breakdown of my setup would seem absolutely ludicrous, but I wouldn't have it any other way now, it's absolutely perfect. The Modi->Uberfrost made a change that was not the least bit subtle - it slammed me in the face as much as going from the Magni to the Valhalla.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
> 
> What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides.
> 
> ...


 

 What kind of headphones did you choose with your setup?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
> 
> What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah you'll find, as you increase DAC quality, the bare minimum is a nice clean signal, but you'll find as you upgrade, the extension of both highs and lows increase as well as micro details. Sometimes you will find an added weight(I found the original bifrost to be a bit thin), increased dynamics, sound stage, etc etc. but I've personally found those first two attributes, extension and micro details, are generally the biggest differences, this especially applies to the HE-500, which I use 70-80% of the time, which has really good extension on both ends as well as great detail reveal.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
> 
> What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides.
> 
> ...


 

 Indeed... if anything... the Amp is taking a magnifying glass to a picture that is already printed... whereas your DAC is the printer. So yes... amps are important to be able to see the finer details in the picture... but if your printer isn't printing with high enough resolution to begin with...


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> Indeed... if anything... the Amp is taking a magnifying glass to a picture that is already printed... whereas your DAC is the printer. So yes... amps are important to be able to see the finer details in the picture... but if your printer isn't printing with high enough resolution to begin with...


 
   
  yes~~ very nice analogy  The only thing is with sub par amps you can in fact find a decrease in resolution from the original material, so this would be like, a warped glass? idk haha. This is why there is a strong emphasis on the whole chain of components. Most people work backwards from headphone to source which, I think is a good way to do it for someone getting into hifi.
   
  It's just something to keep in mind the importance of all of the components. The DAC does not receive a ton of praise in the low/mid fi threads ie. schiits wheelhouse.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





themorganlett85 said:


> What kind of headphones did you choose with your setup?


 

   
  Das T70  amped _correctly,_ they're a work of magical art.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> Das T70  amped _correctly,_ they're a work of magical art.


 

 VERY nice.


----------



## tuna47

Have the lyr orange globes he500 and odac I just ordered the uberfrost hope to see a big difference besides price


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea, for me I didn't realize and experience the importance of the DAC until I switched to the Gungnir from an E17. Initially I simply thought the big change was going balanced and cause of the Mjolnir... but then I tried feeding my E09K with the Gungnir and found a very similar sonic presentation/signature. The key difference I heard was more so the difference in soundstage (due to balanced amp) and the speed of the dynamics (due to Mojo being much much more powerful) and overall more black background (also due to mojo measuring more clean). Otherwise the actual sonic signature (treble, mids, bass) sounded pretty much unchanged.


----------



## cdbob

I have someone that is offering to sell me a Bifrost revision one (no usb, just optical) and a Gen 1 Asgard Amp for $475.
   
  Is that a good deal or not?


----------



## wahsmoh

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> With me and a lot of other newer people I suspect it comes down to "The DAC just makes a clean signal conversion, if it works well enough, it's all about how I amp that signal"
> 
> What isn't apparent until you've heard the Modi and Uberfrost side by side is just how clean and powerful that signal can be, and how that compounds exponentially with any benefits the amp provides.
> 
> ...


 
  I was in the same boat as you pal. I was scared at the thought of buying an external DAC since I already own a "high-end" soundcard (HT Omega Claro). My first investment was my DT880 that I purchased after Christmas for over 30% off ($250) and then decided to throw my money at an amplifier. I ended up going over the end of my "budget".
   
  Asgard 2: $250
  Uberfrost: $500(open-box brand new via Ebay)
  DT880 recabled(MSRP+cable): $500
   
  Now, I'm perfectly happy. I can't see how I could find improvements unless I moved to Summit-fi and opted for an LCD-2 or HE-500 and aim for a complimentary "bass" headphone. My DT880s aren't lacking in weight either now that they've been recabled, talk about a "punch" like a closed subwoofer on my head.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Realizing they probably have a lot of it, I wish Schiit would check their email. I have an issue they really need to take care of one way or the other


----------



## tuna47

Always found schiit great at getting back to you real fast


----------



## IorekByrnison

Way back when, when I first became interested in this but couldn't afford anything, I thought that a nice DAC was the domain of the moneyed. In this hobby as in any hobby, the more you spend, the more you experience diminishing returns. I always thought a good DAC was that expensive last 5% of min-maxing perfectionism, and cans came first.
   
  Now that the Uberfrost has proven my newer understanding true, I had a crazy notion. In cleaning my room, I found an adapter that has a male 1/8th on one end, and RCA on the other...
   
  I unplugged my old Logitech 5.1's front-2 cable from the onboard Realtek, and instead used my adapter to plug the Modi into the Logitech, and set it to 2.1 mode (routes front input to the other 3), effectively using the Modi as a stereo sound card for my computer speakers.
   
  I thought the mediocre Logitechs were as much a bottleneck of muddiness as the Realtek, if anything... I mean, I liked the way it sounded well enough but it definitely had a lot of room for improvement, and since my entire 5.1 was $99 four years ago I figured that was the weakest link...
   
_whoa_
   
  literally 10x better. the range extension, the clarity, the slam, i can't believe these speakers can do what they're doing. They're no_ _hi-fi system but WOW. I knew onboard Realteks weren't the greatest but I never realized just how utterly it had been _murdering_ everything that came out of my audio ports.
   
  This is less praise of the Modi, and more of a "what the **** Realtek?".


----------



## ab initio

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> This is less praise of the Modi, and more of a "what the **** Realtek?".


 
   
  Why? Modi is an awesome USB DAC. I don't know of anything that gets better sound out of a computer for less than 3.5x the cost of Modi.
   
  Cheers!


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





ab initio said:


> Why? Modi is an awesome USB DAC. I don't know of anything that gets better sound out of a computer for less than 3.5x the cost of Modi.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  well, there is that but i already knew that
   
  what i didn't know is just how horrifyingly the realtek mangles the output


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





wahsmoh said:


> Now, I'm perfectly happy. I can't see how I could find improvements unless I moved to Summit-fi and opted for an LCD-2 or HE-500 and aim for a complimentary "bass" headphone. My DT880s aren't lacking in weight either now that they've been recabled, talk about a "punch" like a closed subwoofer on my head.


 
   
  Maybe you mean super bass heavy, but both of those phones have really great bass.


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





cdbob said:


> I have someone that is offering to sell me a Bifrost revision one (no usb, just optical) and a Gen 1 Asgard Amp for $475.
> 
> Is that a good deal or not?


 
   
  Since both of those new and revision 2 would cost around 600$, it's not much of a deal I think.


----------



## jexby

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> Since both of those new and revision 2 would cost around 600$, it's not much of a deal I think.


 
   
  Have to say I agree.  a 5 year warranty can be pretty "valuable" just in case bad electronic luck strikes the Schiit.
  It's one reason I haven't jumped on any Lyr for sale in the forums at the $400 price point, for a mere additional $49 + shipping I can have 5yr product protection?
  yes please.


----------



## Hedonism

All this DAC talk has me intrigued. What would I notice upgrading from an ODAC to a Gungnir? Using Mjolnir feeding HE-500s at the moment.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





hedonism said:


> All this DAC talk has me intrigued. What would I notice upgrading from an ODAC to a Gungnir? Using Mjolnir feeding HE-500s at the moment.


 

 My 2 cents: YES and YES.
   
  Edit: Actual reasons... ODAC isn't fully balanced... Gungnir has an awesome clock system, output stage, etc. etc.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





hedonism said:


> All this DAC talk has me intrigued. What would I notice upgrading from an ODAC to a Gungnir? Using Mjolnir feeding HE-500s at the moment.


 

 You'd see god.....


----------



## IorekByrnison

I can read jargon about the effects all day, but, functionally from the perspective of a person who is listening to music... what does balanced do for the sound that unbalanced doesn't? I've never been entirely clear beyond "it's better/clearer" which can be said for basically every upgrade... and balanced seems complex, expensive, requires different cabling etc. so I gather there's a bit more to it than that.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





iorekbyrnison said:


> I can read jargon about the effects all day, but, functionally from the perspective of a person who is listening to music... what does balanced do for the sound that unbalanced doesn't? I've never been entirely clear beyond "it's better/clearer" which can be said for basically every upgrade... and balanced seems complex, expensive, requires different cabling etc. so I gather there's a bit more to it than that.


 

 Mmmm TBH, it'll be different results for different rigs, ears, preferences, cans, etc. You really just have to try it out yourself.
   
  For my HD 650, it not only gave better resolution... but the biggest change was the soundstage. Made a big difference and now I feel a much better sense of being in the concert hall with the symphony playing in front of me.


----------



## TheChosen0ne

Just curious when you guys listen to music with your Schiit products do you put the volume high or not too loud and not too low?


----------



## noobandroid

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Just curious when you guys listen to music with your Schiit products do you put the volume high or not too loud and not too low?


 
  in clock hands, i put it at 9 o clock + -


----------



## Tuco1965

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Just curious when you guys listen to music with your Schiit products do you put the volume high or not too loud and not too low?


 
  Depends on the output voltage from source.  I'm anywhere from 10:30 to 1:30


----------



## RMiller

A2 between 9 and 11 for me... gets really loud after that unless the source is extra quiet.


----------



## Rem0o

Valhalla with HD650 from 2V output, anywhere between 9 to 12 o'clock, depending of the recording.


----------



## kothganesh

9-11 o clock for me for any of the Schiit amps together with the Ortho HPs.


----------



## bigjohn1

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Just curious when you guys listen to music with your Schiit products do you put the volume high or not too loud and not too low?


 

 Depends on the music I am listening to, and my mood.  If I am listening to something and want to rock-out (be it rock, metal, rap, hip-hop, country, etc.) I will usually have the volume knob around 9-11 o'clock.
   
  If I am just chilling out or listening while I am working form home, it is usually between 7-9 o'clock (or as you put it, not too loud, not too low).
   
  Also, since I am using HD518s at home, if my wife is also working in the and on a conference call, I will lower the volume so the phone does not pick up the leakage from the headphones.
   
  (or I will just put on my HD428s instead and crank the volume...)


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





hedonism said:


> All this DAC talk has me intrigued. What would I notice upgrading from an ODAC to a Gungnir? Using Mjolnir feeding HE-500s at the moment.


 
   
  I think you would notice a major improvement across the board. When people say certain things sound like they have a "veil" in comparison, well it will be like this when thinking of your odac only more extreme. That's a big jump, so it would be very easy to notice differences in every category of sound IMO. I would be very shocked if there was any area where the odac was equal.


----------



## IorekByrnison

I listen to death metal at 12:00 on the Valhalla at work sometimes but that's about the limits of what I can take before I suspect my hearing would begin taking damage. Usually I'm somewhere between 9:00-12:00, and over the day I slowly rise from 9-12 as I adjust


----------



## jaywillin

what the general feeling as to sticking with the optical(for which i would need a converter) or going with the usb on the bifrost ??
  i'm seriously considering the bifrost, and if i had the cash, i'd go ahead and get usb and uber
  but i'm thinking of getting one or the other for now


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> what the general feeling as to sticking with the optical(for which i would need a converter) or going with the usb on the bifrost ??
> i'm seriously considering the bifrost, and if i had the cash, i'd go ahead and get usb and uber
> but i'm thinking of getting one or the other for now


 
  schiit recommends spdif. Why not get the uber considering that will be an improvement in sound. I doubt you would find much of a difference using usb.


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> what the general feeling as to sticking with the optical(for which i would need a converter) or going with the usb on the bifrost ??
> i'm seriously considering the bifrost, and if i had the cash, i'd go ahead and get usb and uber
> but i'm thinking of getting one or the other for now


 

 If you have to spend money on a converter... then screw it, save up a bit more and go straight for USB and the Uber (why pay again later for shipping and possibly installing fee?). You eventually will likely pick up the uber anyhow.


----------



## sjeffrey

I did a comparison between spdif and USB and I have to say USB was hands down better. USB was clear while spdif sounded veiled. However spdif was through onboard sound so maybe not the best source.


----------



## Llloyd

Yeah, I missed the part that he would need a converter which, might as well go usb at that point anyway.


----------



## gefski

joebobbilly said:


> If you have to spend money on a converter... then screw it, save up a bit more and go straight for USB and the Uber (why pay again later for shipping and possibly installing fee?). You eventually will likely pick up the uber anyhow.




Yes! $100 for usb gen 2 and $70 for uber analog are bargains just for the versatility you'll have over the next year or so to do whatever you want input-wise.


----------



## tjcaustin

So, this seems a good a place as any... 
   
  I've got JH13pros, grado sr225is and am soon to have akg k701s, he400s and ath-a900x (to audition, dunno if I'll keep them all, but found them all used in good condition sooo).  I mainly use a fiio x3 to listen to what I currently have and am curious if I need/should get a modi to go along with a magni if I'm using the x3 as my source, what with it's decent DAC.
   
  Thanks for any advice.


----------



## joebobbilly

If you're powering IEMs as detailed as JH13... I'd argue go Asgard 2 and Bifrost. Or at least A2... the low gain and high gain versatility makes it a better "do all" amp for your collection of cans... so in the end, your HE 400s and your JH13s will thank you.


----------



## tjcaustin

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> If you're powering IEMs as detailed as JH13... I'd argue go Asgard 2 and Bifrost. Or at least A2... the low gain and high gain versatility makes it a better "do all" amp for your collection of cans... so in the end, your HE 400s and your JH13s will thank you.


 
  Amusingly (to me at least), I was able to find cheaper used he400s, ath-a900xs *and* a used A2 which has only got me spending ~$30 more than I'd originally had planned, instead of the $150 I was debating.
   
  So yeah, I'll be getting an Asgard 2 lol.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





thechosen0ne said:


> Just curious when you guys listen to music with your Schiit products do you put the volume high or not too loud and not too low?


 
   
  Well, on my M+M stack driving Beyer DT770/250 ohm cans, I run my laptop volume at 100%, and my Magni somewhere between 1 to 2 o'clock. I then adjust the volume in whichever app I'm running (iTunes, foobar, Netflix, Hulu, etc). I don't know how that compares to anyone else.


----------



## tuna47

Just got the bifrost urber upgraded from odac big difference in sound from all sources


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Just got the bifrost urber upgraded from odac big difference in sound from all sources


 

 OMG! I can't believe it, a $500 DAC sounds than a $150 one! Who'd a thunk it?  Some of you folks kill me....


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> OMG! I can't believe it, a $500 DAC sounds than a $150 one! Who'd a thunk it?  Some of you folks kill me....


 

 Because price = sound, my audio salesman told me that.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





rem0o said:


> Because price = sound, my audio salesman told me that.


 
   
  well how many "giant killers" really exist. not many (any?) that i know of. There are some really good values with certain products sure I won't deny that, but I'm pretty sure the people who make audio gear are aware of how much they can sell stuff depending on how it sounds.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> OMG! I can't believe it, a $500 DAC sounds than a $150 one! Who'd a thunk it?  Some of you folks kill me....


 
   
  Are the $200 cables gonna make it sound better too?


----------



## joebobbilly

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Are the $200 cables gonna make it sound better too?


 

 Let's leave that alone.


----------



## mvrk10256

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Are the $200 cables gonna make it sound better too?


 
  LOL...
   
  Quote: 





llloyd said:


> well how many "giant killers" really exist. not many (any?) that i know of. There are some really good values with certain products sure I won't deny that, but I'm pretty sure the people who make audio gear are aware of how much they can sell stuff depending on how it sounds.


 
  Well if we go towards the "cheap" end of the spectrum. A fellow audiophile friend and I were not able to tell the difference between a $40 grubDAC and a $99 Modi. However I will gladly pay an extra $60 for a sexy aluminum case, and a very high q board. You can take a look at my comparo thread if you want a more technical breakdown.


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Are the $200 cables gonna make it sound better too?


 

 They more than likely absolutely will, get a clue...


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





rem0o said:


> Because price = sound, my audio salesman told me that.


 

 You should listen to that wise man!  Most of the time there are actual BETTER quality parts that make a component cost more and those better quality parts usually make for better sound.  Of course this is not ALWAYS true, but mostly it is.  Then you just start getting into which presentation or flavor do YOU prefer.


----------



## jmsaxon69

I think we need a separate "audiophile" forum and then one for the people who can't really hear....
   
  all those poor stupid audiophiles that are being hood winked, it's so sad...


----------



## Rem0o

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> I think we need a separate "audiophile" forum and then one for the people who can't really hear....
> 
> all those poor stupid audiophiles that are being hood winked, it's so sad...


 

 Totally.


----------



## IorekByrnison

if you believe in raw price to quality, I have a twenty thousand dollar diamond cored solid gold triple shielded usb cable to sell you for your dac
   
  100% bitperfect, your DAC will forever be flawed without it


----------



## Llloyd

I don't think it's sad if thye are happy with their purchase.  I may not agree with it but to each his own. It's kind of a silly hobby to begin with


----------



## tuna47

JM did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today awful judgemental


----------



## Byronb

Seriously every thread on this forum at one point or another devolves to an argument about cables. Everyone that can't hear the difference is deaf and everyone that does is stupid. Can't we just talk about the gear and agree to disagree when it comes to connectors?


----------



## tjcaustin

Quote: 





joebobbilly said:


> If you're powering IEMs as detailed as JH13... I'd argue go Asgard 2 and Bifrost. Or at least A2... the low gain and high gain versatility makes it a better "do all" amp for your collection of cans... so in the end, your HE 400s and your JH13s will thank you.


 
  So I found a first version Asgard for $40 less than the A2, is the only difference the gain switch and they have the same/similar sound or is there more to it that would make the additional $40 adviseable?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> JM did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today awful judgemental


 
  No, it just kills me that facts about audio gear and cables are regarded as "things to believe in" and the amount of people that are either too stubborn, cheap or can't hear the difference treat these things like believing in Bigfoot, aliens or Jesus.  It's a bit maddening to someone who has been in the business for so long and knows that DACS sound different, let alone one that costs $150 and one that costs $500 and cables make a difference.  I think I just need to stay away or like I said there needs to be an audiophile section to this website.


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> No, it just kills me that facts about audio gear and cables are regarded as "things to believe in" and the amount of people that are either too stubborn, cheap or can't hear the difference treat these things like believing in Bigfoot, aliens or Jesus.  It's a bit maddening to someone who has been in the business for so long and knows that DACS sound different, let alone one that costs $150 and one that costs $500 and cables make a difference.  I think I just need to stay away or like I said there needs to be an audiophile section to this website.


 

 what about summit fi ?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> what about summit fi ?


 

 I'll check it out, thanks...


----------



## tuna47

JM I knew that the bifrost would make a difference but not the amount it did
I think you should start your own forum just audio genius allowed


----------



## tuna47

And by the way this is a help blog also so if you have some wisdom share it nicely


----------



## nfslmao

Has anyone used the Valhalla with low impedance headphones?
   
  And has anyone tried using Ortho's on the Valhalla? I know it's not right, but i just want to know what happens.


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> JM I knew that the bifrost would make a difference but not the amount it did
> I think you should start your own forum just audio genius allowed


 

 don't sweat it tuna , as someone who is seriously thinking about getting a bifrost, i appreciated your comments and found them useful !!


----------



## Taliesin

Between the Asgard 2 and the Lyr, which do people recommend for the HD700?


----------



## jmsaxon69

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> JM I knew that the bifrost would make a difference but not the amount it did
> I think you should start your own forum just audio genius allowed


 

 That's a good idea!


----------



## mazzelectra

Heya,
   
  Just wanted to chime in as a relatively new audiophile disciple - got my _Magni/Modi_ stack (driving Senn Momentums) running as my work station last week, replacing an _FiiO E07k_. Really loving the sound; seems to have widened the stage a bit and sends the lows down harder (listening to the new NiN "Copy of A" right now - nice compression/balance play 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
   
  Also, the stack does seem to be breaking in; smoothing out. Not a ginormous amount, but it seems less brittle this week - is that a thing with SS, or am I just acclimating?
   
  Only 4 weeks ago, I was just learning about DACs and AMPs. having devoted so much of my life to music, I can't believe I had gone so long without more appropriate signalChain intervention! Until I get my home rig configured and setup, this makes me anticipate going to WORK now..._(must...prioritize...home...setup...!!1)_
   
  Also, just a quick aside on the strife in this thread of late, if I may : the reason I was drawn to this community in the first place was that with knowledgable peeps hanging out ready to help those of us who are learning as well as debate those among us who have more knowledge and experience, we have such a wonderful space to explore the finer things in the audio universe. Let's not start putting up walls and judging anyone based on their current state of Head-Fi'ness - this place rocks too hard to start devolving into that sort of trollspace


----------



## Raptor34

Quote: 





nfslmao said:


> Has anyone used the Valhalla with low impedance headphones?
> 
> And has anyone tried using Ortho's on the Valhalla? I know it's not right, but i just want to know what happens.


 

 Yes, I tried both of my Ortho's with the Valhalla.   The V just wasn't designed to power them.   It puts out 100mw at 32 ohm so the sound was weak and undynamic.   No puffy white smoke mind you but I don't think the amp or the HP's liked the pairing.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Whoops,  must edit:   The V puts out 100mw @ 50 ohms.  I doubt it would survive a 32 ohm load.  
*Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *100mW
*Maximum Power, 300 ohms: *420mW
*Maximum Power, 600 ohms: *210mW
  Looks like 300ohm HP's are an ideal match for it.
  cheers.


----------



## IorekByrnison

Quote: 





nfslmao said:


> Has anyone used the Valhalla with low impedance headphones?
> 
> And has anyone tried using Ortho's on the Valhalla? I know it's not right, but i just want to know what happens.


 
   
  It's not pretty.
   
  Muddy, low volume, microscopic soundstage. Makes my HD580s sound like $20 trash. 
  Makes the 600 ohms of the T70 sing like angels, though. It's an amazing amp, it's just really, really not for low impedance.


----------



## Raptor34

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> No, it just kills me that facts about audio gear and cables are regarded as "things to believe in" and the amount of people that are either too stubborn, cheap or can't hear the difference treat these things like believing in Bigfoot, aliens or Jesus.  It's a bit maddening to someone who has been in the business for so long and knows that DACS sound different, let alone one that costs $150 and one that costs $500 and cables make a difference.  I think I just need to stay away or like I said there needs to be an audiophile section to this website.


 

 Switch to decaf JM.


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





nfslmao said:


> Has anyone used the Valhalla with low impedance headphones?
> 
> And has anyone tried using Ortho's on the Valhalla? I know it's not right, but i just want to know what happens.


 
   
  Well orthos are not super picky about headphone amps. It should be able to make them loud enough, and I think they would sound just okay. Like no amplifier is going to make orthos sound like.. BAD, it's just not going to make them sound like their price tag. It should still be enjoyable even if it's not near the potential. Right now I am using my stand by amp which only puts about 125mw into my HE-500, and it's still enjoyable.  Yes there's a number of things missing but honestly it's not all that bad. I found very little difference between this amp(little dot) and the schiit asgard back when I owned them both.


----------



## Llloyd

On the subject of cables. Not that I'm going to jump in and argue because I never get involved.
   
  I'm surprised more things like this don't exist. http://www.bakoonproducts.com/technology/satri-link/
   
  This person just developed their own interconnect that they found to be better than traditional RCA, wouldn't that be the way to go rather than just using different cables. A difference in technology seems smarter. I'm no electrician but I was just surprised nobody had done this. I guess because it's a pretty luxury feature considering the bakoon stuff is really expensive. I know a lot of money is to be made in the cable market so maybe that's why not more people have attempted something like this.


----------



## gefski

nfslmao said:


> Has anyone used the Valhalla with low impedance headphones?
> 
> And has anyone tried using Ortho's on the Valhalla? I know it's not right, but i just want to know what happens.




Valhalla is great driving my RS1i, transparent, textured, & dynamic, but Grados are an easy load, which fits with Schiit's 32 to 600 ohm guidelines. 

I believe orthos are another matter, with Schiit recommending against that matchup.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> On the subject of cables. Not that I'm going to jump in and argue because I never get involved.
> 
> I'm surprised more things like this don't exist. http://www.bakoonproducts.com/technology/satri-link/
> 
> This person just developed their own interconnect that they found to be better than traditional RCA, wouldn't that be the way to go rather than just using different cables. A difference in technology seems smarter. I'm no electrician but I was just surprised nobody had done this. I guess because it's a pretty luxury feature considering the bakoon stuff is really expensive. I know a lot of money is to be made in the cable market so maybe that's why not more people have attempted something like this.


 

 satri isn't new...Krell has been doing something similar with its CAST tech for quite a while, and Audio-GD has been as well with their ACSS stuff.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> No, it just kills me that facts about audio gear and cables are regarded as "things to believe in" and the amount of people that are either too stubborn, cheap or can't hear the difference treat these things like believing in Bigfoot, aliens or Jesus.  It's a bit maddening to someone who has been in the business for so long and knows that DACS sound different, let alone one that costs $150 and one that costs $500 and cables make a difference.  I think I just need to stay away or like I said there needs to be an audiophile section to this website.


 
   
  Well. Gosh. If you accept as fact the premise that money spent equates to better audio quality, that is surely your right. There are, however, many rational explanations for why some folks might not accept that premise as fact (none of which require the reader to accept far-fetched things).
   
  Stubborn? Ok. So, let them be stubborn. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." My dad is in his 90's, and to him I'm still a punk kid. In his eyes, I will never grow up, no matter how old I am. Should I feel bad? No, I don't think so. Fortunately, I no longer live in his house, haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheap? That's usually my excuse, lol. I prefer to think of myself as frugal. Mostly because I give away 1/3 of my paycheck to my ex wife every time I get one. I'd love to be able to throw money around like it grows on trees, but I can't. So I strive to find gear that is "good enough for now", and make notes for the day when I get to stop paying child support 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Should I feel bad that I can't trade my Modi in for a Bifrost Uber, and hear this astounding difference? No. I don't feel bad at all. I consider myself fortunate to be able to purchase an inexpensive DAC that is quite fine for the money I spent for it.
   
  Can't hear the difference? This is the reason I'm writing this post. I don't mean to cause a stir. I just think there are all sorts of reasons why people either can, or cannot, hear the difference between any given component. Sometimes a person is older, like me. Should I feel bad if my 50+ yr old ears can't hear the same level of detail as a man in his 20's? No. I honestly think it pays to look at someone's profile to understand their frame of reference.
   
  I also believe that people's perceptions can change depending on what they listen to, and when they listen to it. This phenomenon explains many things to me, and I have proven it exists, at least to myself. When I swapped around my work and home setups to run a little comparison recently, my perceptions of all of my gear changed dramatically. I decided that a particular iPod DAC was too damn bright to listen to any more, so I removed it from my work setup. After a week or so, my perceptions of my gear returned to normal. And this was with gear that had been in use for some months (and should not be changing, if you happen to believe in that). This also explains (at least to me) why people think gear "breaks in" after a period of time: their minds and/or ears are adjusting to the sound. I tend to think that our minds and ears change more than a few pieces of solid state equipment (or even tubes for that matter).
   
  Then there's also the phenomenon of not being able to hear the difference, simply because your setup just isn't good enough, or some component is affecting the SQ. If you've spent a few thousand bucks on some fine gear, maybe Blue Jeans cables will make a difference for you. However, if you've spent a couple hundred on budget-fi gear, I kind of doubt they will matter. Is that the "fault" of the person who didn't invest in better cables? No. On the contrary, I think it's kind of silly to spend 50-100 bucks on cables, when you only spent 70 bucks on the amp, and are driving it with an iPod. I felt bad enough spending $15 bucks at Radio Shack, haha.
   
  I tend to think that knowledge and understanding someone else's point of view, will alleviate much of the arguments over significant, or petty differences. After all, there's no point in getting mad at someone for having a cold. Honestly, there is enough hate being spewed by politicians and governments these days, that we should probably try to avoid that here. I like to think of this as something fun to end my day.
   
  Peace.


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Well. Gosh. If you accept as fact the premise that money spent equates to better audio quality, that is surely your right. There are, however, many rational explanations for why some folks might not accept that premise as fact (none of which require the reader to accept far-fetched things).
> 
> Stubborn? Ok. So, let them be stubborn. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." My dad is in his 90's, and to him I'm still a punk kid. In his eyes, I will never grow up, no matter how old I am. Should I feel bad? No, I don't think so. Fortunately, I no longer live in his house, haha
> 
> ...


 

 very well said and couldn't agree more !!
  the attitude of "elitist" which leads to intolerance or indignation of those "who don't get it" sometimes for whatever reason, is one of the things that got me out of the high end scene years ago.
  one of the things i LOVE about head fi is that that that elitist thing is the minority here !
  we are having fun, being a "community" sharing experiences, gear, music !
  lets not take ourselves so seriously !! let your hair down as it were, its ok, we all are different and that's a good thing !
  me out of


----------



## noobandroid

Quote: 





umustbkidn said:


> Well. Gosh. If you accept as fact the premise that money spent equates to better audio quality, that is surely your right. There are, however, many rational explanations for why some folks might not accept that premise as fact (none of which require the reader to accept far-fetched things).
> 
> Stubborn? Ok. So, let them be stubborn. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." My dad is in his 90's, and to him I'm still a punk kid. In his eyes, I will never grow up, no matter how old I am. Should I feel bad? No, I don't think so. Fortunately, I no longer live in his house, haha
> 
> ...


 
  TLR
  Screw those bashers, we like what we like, and you have nothing on us, nuff said and GTFO~~


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





tjcaustin said:


> So I found a first version Asgard for $40 less than the A2, is the only difference the gain switch and they have the same/similar sound or is there more to it that would make the additional $40 adviseable?


 
   
  I'd get A2, aside from the switch it's also dead silent, while the first version had problems with hum iirc. Anyway, 40$ isn't a big deal and a new thing is always better


----------



## jexby

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> I'd get A2, aside from the switch it's also dead silent, while the first version had problems with hum iirc. Anyway, 40$ isn't a big deal and a new thing is always better


 
   
  Assuming my Lyr arrives and I dig it's signature in the tube world during my 15 day trial, my Mint condition Asgard2 (purchased in May 2013) will likely be for sale on the Forums soon.
  sad as I am to do so, it's sounds amazing - just had unplanned headphone purchases that should benefit from more Lyr power.


----------



## jmsaxon69

This whole price doesn't equal performance is such crap or all of you would own Magni/Modi and that would be it.  It's not a way to negate "bang for the buck", there are some good sounding cheap stuff out there, does the stuff that costs 2 or 3 times more sound better? Most of the time it sure does, of course SOMETIMES it doesn't, but rarely. 
   
  The cable thing still baffles me as well, but I guess if you can't hear it then don't spend the money.  How can so many idiot audiophiles just want to blow large amounts of money on cables if they make no difference? How can these companies like AudioQuest and Kimber Kable still be around?
   
  The excuses are lame.  Actually buy a good $200 to $500 interconnect and listen to it for a month and then hook up what you were using and let me know what you hear......
   
   
  Listen to what you are saying "We are proud to be ignorant" Really? Is that what you want to be?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> I'd get A2, aside from the switch it's also dead silent, while the first version had problems with hum iirc. Anyway, 40$ isn't a big deal and a new thing is always better


 
   
  I never heard about any hum problems with the first Asgard. Mine certainly did not hum even with IEMs, unless maybe it was the very first original version before they added the power relay? But even so I still never heard that.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





rmiller said:


> I'd get A2, aside from the switch it's also dead silent, while the first version had problems with hum iirc. Anyway, 40$ isn't a big deal and a new thing is always better


 
   
  It was the first batch of A2s that had a hum issue, not the original Asgard.


----------



## imahawki

I have a couple questions.  Overall I'm happy with my Mod/Magni for the price, but I get crackling when changing the volume on the Magni, and there is a constant low-level hum in the background.  Is this pretty normal?


----------



## Llloyd

Quote: 





imahawki said:


> I have a couple questions.  Overall I'm happy with my Mod/Magni for the price, but I get crackling when changing the volume on the Magni, and there is a constant low-level hum in the background.  Is this pretty normal?


 
   
  No that's not normal you should contact them and they will be able to help you out.


----------



## Taliesin

So which schiit amp would people recommend for the HD700


----------



## imahawki

Quote: 





llloyd said:


> No that's not normal you should contact them and they will be able to help you out.


 

 I submitted my issue through their web form.  I'll play around tonight to see if the hum is a ground loop, but the volume knob causing scratching doesn't sound right regardless.


----------



## MickeyVee

I was using the Bifrost/Lyr with Amperex Orange Globes when I had the HD700. It was pretty impressive with the OG's taming some of the treble and providing a great soundstage and awesome bass.
   
  Quote: 





taliesin said:


> So which schiit amp would people recommend for the HD700


----------



## jaywillin

man, so much animosity here, on both sides
  did it ever occur to anyone , that there is no one right answer for everyone ??
   there is no "best"
  "best" is in the ears and eyes of the beholder !!
  what's best, and whats crap to me, is up to me, not anyone else
   all this stuff it RELATIVE !!!
  somebody tell me what is expensive ???
  expensive to me might be $100 set of interconnects ,
  to somebody else, that could be garbage, cheap
  damn, everyone is so sensitive , this is fun guys, its fun to me
  so what if someone says they are proud to be ignorant ? that doesn't
  effect me, there are things i'm not ignorant of, and maybe those things i am
  ignorant of i don't care about.
   
  a big reason some, and maybe a lot of these "high end" companies exist, and even flourish , two words: PRIDE  EGO
  "my toy is bigger than your toy"
  "oh yeah, mine's shinier!! "
  everybody lighten up, have fun, enjoy yourself
  rant's over now play nice !!


----------



## tuna47

I use the bifrost uber to schiit lyr golden globes on he500 heaven


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I use the bifrost uber to schiit lyr golden globes on he500 heaven


 

 i'll be getting the uber bifrost soon myself, to go with my lyr and grado's ,


----------



## tuna47

Should tame some of the treble


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> I use the bifrost uber to schiit lyr golden globes on he500 heaven


 

 so, i haven't rolled any tubes in the lyr yet, and haven't gotten too far reading in the lyr tube rolling thread, any suggestions ??


----------



## tuna47

Golden globes if you can find A frames they are great


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Golden globes if you can find A frames they are great


 

 is that a amperex , siemens , what brand, or type
  i don't have any experience with this tube type
  i've only had a little dot and an indeed g3 before
   
  i guess i should spend some time reading the tube thread !! lil


----------



## tuna47

Amperex holland


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> Amperex holland


 

 that name i'm familiar with !


----------



## nelamvr6

I think Tuna means Orange Globes.  They are nice, my current favorite.


----------



## jaywillin

nelamvr6 said:


> I think Tuna means Orange Globes.  They are nice, my current favorite.



I think you just may be right 
I'd heard orange globes, the only golden ones ive heard of was the awards on TV


----------



## mazzelectra

Quote: 





imahawki said:


> I have a couple questions.  Overall I'm happy with my Mod/Magni for the price, but I get crackling when changing the volume on the Magni, and there is a constant low-level hum in the background.  Is this pretty normal?


 
   
  Hey imahawki,
   
  Just wanted to ping on this - I went through a similar issue with my Magni last week and finally got things resolved today. After cycling different power placement scenarios _(different wall, surge protectors, etc.)_ and running through nonDAC testing _(thought it may be machine noise transfer from my iMac usb source)_ I eventually found out that it was the *Audio Extension Cable* I was using! I was going to bypass that soon anyway, just waiting on a surge protector (which came today) to be able to move the M/M into a position on my desk where I wouldn't need it.
   
  Anyhoo, I posted about it on the Magni thread in case you wanted to check out the scenario in full:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/640783/schiit-magni-headphone-amplifier/1785#post_9751045
   
  Hope that helps!
   
  The Modi/Magni seems quite exceptional


----------



## tuna47

Sorry meant orange also globe A frames


----------



## jaywillin

these tubes can be a little pricey compared to the little dot tubes ! lol
  but i'm finding some good candidates , siemens, telefunken , mullard(i've generally liked mullard in the past)
  and various amperex


----------



## jaywillin

and just ordered a pair of amperex bugle boys


----------



## SoulSyde

I finally got around to ordering the Bifrost to replace the sub-par DAC I was using. As I said in my email to Jason at Schiit, "Wow, I'm blown away."

I've been missing out on a ton of resolution for years. These guys know their Schiit. Well done!


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I finally got around to ordering the Bifrost to replace the sub-par DAC I was using. As I said in my email to Jason at Schiit, "Wow, I'm blown away."
> 
> I've been missing out on a ton of resolution for years. These guys know their Schiit. Well done!


 

 i'm ordering a bifrost tomorrow, did you get the uber ?


----------



## SoulSyde

I did not and I'm still very impressed. I don't see the need to with my current setup. The regular USB-Bifrost is good for me. Enjoy yours!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





soulsyde said:


> I finally got around to ordering the Bifrost to replace the sub-par DAC I was using. As I said in my email to Jason at Schiit, "Wow, I'm blown away."
> 
> I've been missing out on a ton of resolution for years. These guys know their Schiit. Well done!


 
  To be precise, Mike Moffat knows his Schiit. He's probably forgotten more about digital than, well, pretty much any digital designer out there. I'm the lowly analog guy. We both recoil in horror from each other's domain--I would much rather deal with compensating an amp than working out digital system glitches. And neither of us does what Dave does, who handles the sophisticated software side. 
   
  Thanks for the kind words!


----------



## Armaegis

Gee, it's almost like you guys intentionally formed a team with complimentary skillsets. What a coincidence!


----------



## tuna47

I just received the bifrost uber very happy never had the original cannot compare but why not go for the best you can afford


----------



## bigjohn1

Hey Jason-
   
  I know it is not a normal part of your operation, and you focus on the amazing technology and products that we all love, but how about making available for purchase some Schiit swag (i.e. t-shirts, hats, etc.)
   
  I, for one, would love to be a walking bill board for your products to show my loyalty and happiness with your products. (and by walking billboard, I mean a 6'4", 50" chest walking around Dallas with a Schiit logo on a shirt would be exactly that)


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





bigjohn1 said:


> Hey Jason-
> 
> I know it is not a normal part of your operation, and you focus on the amazing technology and products that we all love, but how about making available for purchase some Schiit swag (i.e. t-shirts, hats, etc.)
> 
> I, for one, would love to be a walking bill board for your products to show my loyalty and happiness with your products. (and by walking billboard, I mean a 6'4", 50" chest walking around Dallas with a Schiit logo on a shirt would be exactly that)


 
   
  You mean like these?
   
http://schiit.spreadshirt.com/


----------



## bigjohn1

Ok, color me embarrased.  I swear I looked all over the website for these and did not see them.
   
  Oh well..another website fail for me...


----------



## Tuco1965

Pig in Schiit should be a shirt.  I'd love one of those.


----------



## Defiant00

Quote: 





bigjohn1 said:


> Ok, color me embarrased.  I swear I looked all over the website for these and did not see them.
> 
> Oh well..another website fail for me...


 
   
  Jason mentioned it in another thread, I don't honestly know if they're linked from Schiit's site anywhere.


----------



## RMiller

Quote: 





mazzelectra said:


> Hey imahawki,
> 
> Just wanted to ping on this - I went through a similar issue with my Magni last week and finally got things resolved today. After cycling different power placement scenarios _(different wall, surge protectors, etc.)_ and running through nonDAC testing _(thought it may be machine noise transfer from my iMac usb source)_ I eventually found out that it was the *Audio Extension Cable* I was using! I was going to bypass that soon anyway, just waiting on a surge protector (which came today) to be able to move the M/M into a position on my desk where I wouldn't need it.


 
   
  I had some buzz on my A2 touching the volume knob, but as eventually I've found out, only when my desk lamp was turned on, even though they were not plugged into the same socket. Anyway, definitely worth experimenting with different walls/cables etc. in such a case


----------



## jaywillin

just ordered the bifrost, usb, no uber(got a demo from A.A.)
  i've head good things about the lyr bifrost combo ! can't wait


----------



## tuna47

I have the combo with uber sounds amazing


----------



## Tuco1965

I also have the Uberfrost/Lyr combo.  It does sound amazing.


----------



## tuna47

What phones I have the 500s goes well with them


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuna47 said:


> What phones I have the 500s goes well with them


 

 i have the alessandro ms2 and grado ps500


----------



## jaywillin

Quote: 





tuco1965 said:


> I also have the Uberfrost/Lyr combo.  It does sound amazing.


 

 if i keep the bifrost i will definitely get the uber upgrade
  the peachtree is pretty good though


----------



## Tuco1965

My 600s sing with great recordings.  Looking forward to a good session this evening.


----------



## NightFlight

wahsmoh said:


> I was in the same boat as you pal. I was scared at the thought of buying an external DAC since I already own a "high-end" soundcard (HT Omega Claro). My first investment was my DT880 that I purchased after Christmas for over 30% off ($250) and then decided to throw my money at an amplifier. I ended up going over the end of my "budget".
> 
> Asgard 2: $250
> Uberfrost: $500(open-box brand new via Ebay)
> ...




you could tube roll with a Lyr, or start building a crqack OTL, or S.E.X or BA22. You gotta get your perspective in order. The order says there is no end and it always can be better.


----------



## peepr

Looking to upgrade to a Lyr shortly from my Magni to go with my Mad Dogs which I will eventually upgrade to Alpha Dogs when Dan makes the option available.
   
  Tell me this head-fi, is it worth it to upgrade my Modi ---> Bifrost? I do all my listening via computer. Has anyone switched out a modi for the bifrost in a lyr setup and noticed a huge difference?


----------



## huberd

I owned the HT Halo Claro. I thought too it would be impossible to have better sound. A friend lent me a Meridian USB DAC. I was blown away by the sound. The improvement is not minor. I then purchased a Gungnir and in the meantime I got the Asgard2. Wow am I amazed at the sound quality. I am glad my friend brought over the Meridian. I realized how bad a PCI sound card really is.


----------



## huberd

I difference should be noticeable. I compared a Modi to the Gungnir and there is no contest. I am using DT990 headphones just in case someone would like to know. The Modi uses an opamp for the output gain stage. Opamps are inferior to discreet components that are used in the Bifrost and Gungnir.


----------



## huberd

What cable did you use to re-cable your DT880 headphones? I would like to do the same for my DT990 and balance them so I can get the Mjolnir in the future.


----------



## NightFlight

erukian said:


> When is it trolling? He was responding to a specific question about whether it's worth it to pay extra for cables.
> 
> This is just my two cents, but it seems like anytime someone expresses their opinion about cables on here where they're a non-believer they're automatically trolling. If they're a cable believer they're seen as sharing their experiences because cables are _SO_ subjective nobody will tell them they're full of BS. Aren't double standards fun?





No, it takes a trained ear to hear. Some care to take this path, others don't. That is the end of the argument.


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





bigjohn1 said:


> Hey Jason-
> 
> I know it is not a normal part of your operation, and you focus on the amazing technology and products that we all love, but how about making available for purchase some Schiit swag (i.e. t-shirts, hats, etc.)
> 
> I, for one, would love to be a walking bill board for your products to show my loyalty and happiness with your products. (and by walking billboard, I mean a 6'4", 50" chest walking around Dallas with a Schiit logo on a shirt would be exactly that)


 
   
  Please make sure to produce some in XXXX for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 lol


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





defiant00 said:


> You mean like these?
> 
> http://schiit.spreadshirt.com/


 
   





  They only go up to 3X


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote: 





jmsaxon69 said:


> This whole price doesn't equal performance is such crap or all of you would own Magni/Modi and that would be it.  It's not a way to negate "bang for the buck", there are some good sounding cheap stuff out there, does the stuff that costs 2 or 3 times more sound better? Most of the time it sure does, of course SOMETIMES it doesn't, but rarely.
> 
> The cable thing still baffles me as well, but I guess if you can't hear it then don't spend the money.  How can so many idiot audiophiles just want to blow large amounts of money on cables if they make no difference? How can these companies like AudioQuest and Kimber Kable still be around?
> 
> ...


 
   
  My friend, I am not professing ignorance, nor do I wish that upon others. I was simply stating there are many reasons why people do the things they do. Some people are stubborn, but I suppose it is their choice to be stubborn. Some people are stuck in their particular situation in life, and so their choices are limited. Some people choose to be frugal. Why should that upset anyone else?
   
  For those who are unable, it isn't their choice. For those who are unwilling, perhaps it is their choice, and perhaps not. I just don't see the purpose in being mad at them. Perhaps it is the case that they don't realize that they are unable or unwilling, and so argue their positions in that way. All that anger will do to someone in that state is to further solidify their positions.
   
  I am also not advocating relative truth. Facts are facts. But many things in this hobby depend upon perceptions, and those perceptions may change. It is a mistake to argue over perceptions, as if they were facts.
   
  So, yeah. I own a M+M stack, and I really like it. Do I think it's endgame? No. It's what I can afford for now. I will not trouble you with the events in my life that cause me to spend a whole lot more than an M+M stack on my ex wife or kids, but I have priorities. Would you get mad at me for having priorities? Gosh, I hope not.


----------



## noobandroid

is it only me or schiit site is not working


----------



## SoulSyde

Working fine here.


----------



## RMiller

Works here as well


----------



## markm1

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> just ordered the bifrost, usb, no uber(got a demo from A.A.)
> i've head good things about the lyr bifrost combo ! can't wait


 
  I think you're unique position to be in possession of Both Dac-It and Bifrost...as many of us have looked at both and wondered how they compare. My guess is they are both awesome.


----------



## jaywillin

yes, i'm really looking forward to it, and the dacIT is really growing on me, the bifrost has a tough job ahead


----------



## gefski

jaywillin said:


> yes, i'm really looking forward to it, and the dacIT is really growing on me, the bifrost has a tough job ahead




Will you be feeding the dacs via USB or SPDIF? Lossless files on a computer or...?


----------



## jaywillin

gefski said:


> Will you be feeding the dacs via USB or SPDIF? Lossless files on a computer or...?



USB 
Most of my downloads are flac and wav played through jriver though the majority of my listening is spotify and mog


----------



## imahawki

Quote: 





mazzelectra said:


> Hey imahawki,
> 
> Just wanted to ping on this - I went through a similar issue with my Magni last week and finally got things resolved today. After cycling different power placement scenarios _(different wall, surge protectors, etc.)_ and running through nonDAC testing _(thought it may be machine noise transfer from my iMac usb source)_ I eventually found out that it was the *Audio Extension Cable* I was using! I was going to bypass that soon anyway, just waiting on a surge protector (which came today) to be able to move the M/M into a position on my desk where I wouldn't need it.
> 
> ...


 

 Did you have just a hum or did you have the scratchy volume knob as well?


----------



## gefski

jaywillin said:


> USB
> Most of my downloads are flac and wav played through jriver though the majority of my listening is spotify and mog




The flac & wav files with either dac should give a very transparent window on the music, spotify & mog significantly less so has been my experience. 

Should be fun! Be sure & allow the Bifrost time for "listener burn-in" as you have done with the Dacit.


----------



## mazzelectra

imahawki said:


> Did you have just a hum or did you have the scratchy volume knob as well?




Hey,

Yep - had a little of both in the mix :/ Scratchiness only when turning the VOL knob in certain ranges.


----------



## tuna47

I have the bifrost uber listen to spotify and CDs through an optical cable the difference is much greater on the CDs than on spotify I had the odac 
Bifrost blows it away


----------



## jaywillin

No DAC can make lesser source material sound good, you have to start with material


----------



## ngyu

Quote: 





jaywillin said:


> No DAC can make lesser source material sound good, you have to start with material


 
  Agreed. A better DAC will just be able to reproduce the source material with more clarity and transparency. No DAC can make a 128kbps mp3 sound better than a flac, or heck, a 320kbps mp3 file.


----------



## tuna47

I listen to spotify at 320 not bad but not like a cd going through the bifrost uber. The nice thing about spotify is you get to try tons of music things you may never have thought of its endless


----------



## IorekByrnison

ngyu said:


> Agreed. A better DAC will just be able to reproduce the source material with more clarity and transparency. No DAC can make a 128kbps mp3 sound better than a flac, or heck, a 320kbps mp3 file.


 
 To be fair, a 128kbps MP3 sounds like trash even coming through iPhone earbuds from an iPhone. I remember the blissfully ignorant days of Napster when it was shocking how _amazing_ the quality we could fit into such tiny bits of space was, and 128kbps was mindblowing... not so much anymore.
  
 I strongly doubt the large, large majority of people can tell the difference between a V0 and a 320 without Bifrost-tier gear or better, or between either of those and FLAC, and even with the gear necessary and some especially unforgiving cans like the T70, it's very, very close. (This is assuming 16/41khz standard) I have a few recordings that are very quiet beyond the music (jazz, solo piano, etc) where the difference between V0/320 and lossless becomes much more stark, but as the layers and complexity increase, the discernible difference rapidly decreases. As far as what the human ear can even hear in the first place, V0/320 come _very, very_ close to lossless - it's arguable that past the age of 16 or so, you provably won't be able to tell a V0 from a 320, even. 
  
 My collection is mostly 320, V0 and ALAC (because iTunes, ugh), but some things I just haven't been able to find in better quality yet. I can't even comprehend not keeping a personal music library - the huge, huge majority of music I like isn't on any of those web services - and it's not because i'm ~so indie~, it's just because I listen primarily to music that isn't in english or is from countries where english isn't the primary language. In my experience, Spotify and the like almost completely ignore anything that falls in that category, _especially_ if it's non-western. Just by browsing forums and watching new posts on the private torrent trackers I frequent, I'm constantly coming across more new music I'm interested in than I can possibly listen to, 99% of it not available on Spotify.
  
 As a result, I have a music drive at home along with an identical backup copy I refresh monthly, as well as an external drive at the office serving as an offsite backup, which I keep always up to date by synchronizing it through a fourth backup in the form of a portable mini-external. I lost my whole collection and backups to a power supply failure when I was 16... and never, ever again. Main site, main site backup, portable/pocket backup and offsite backup are now mandatory. I'd love the ease of a web service that allowed me to not do that, but then I'd never be able to listen "off the grid"... so I guess I'll always be tending to a library on my own.


----------



## Llloyd

iorekbyrnison said:


> I strongly doubt the large, large majority of people can tell the difference between a V0 and a 320 without Bifrost-tier gear or better


 
  
 Nobody should be able to tell the difference. It's the same thing just using different technologies. The variable bit rate is to save space but can go as high as 320 when it needs to give that much information. Unless you meant between either of those two and FLAC? I know I can't tell the difference between 320 and flac anyway. I don't think that most people can even with exceptional gear.


----------



## jaywillin

the bifrost has landed !
  
 it just got here, its taken the place of the peachtree dacIT for the time being, let the games begin !


----------



## IorekByrnison

llloyd said:


> Nobody should be able to tell the difference. It's the same thing just using different technologies. The variable bit rate is to save space but can go as high as 320 when it needs to give that much information. Unless you meant between either of those two and FLAC? I know I can't tell the difference between 320 and flac anyway. I don't think that most people can even with exceptional gear.


 
  
 I can definitely tell V0/320 from FLAC on my Bifrost/Valhalla/T70 rig... on some music, but not all. Complex, layered death metal with synth bits and dual vocalists? Not so much. Well mastered jazz in an otherwise dead quiet room? Absolutely.
  
 As I understood it, V0 shaved a bit off the very top, the frequencies that are inaudible to anyone but children pretty much, in addition to VBRing at max fidelity - which should make it indistinguishable from 320 for any of us, but if it doesn't even do that and just cuts out true silence, then yeah it'd be literally impossible to tell.


----------



## markm1

jaywillin said:


> the bifrost has landed !
> 
> it just got here, its taken the place of the peachtree dacIT for the time being, let the games begin !


 
 Hey Jay! So, are you preferring the Bifrost on first blush?


----------



## joebobbilly

llloyd said:


> Nobody should be able to tell the difference. It's the same thing just using different technologies. The variable bit rate is to save space but can go as high as 320 when it needs to give that much information. Unless you meant between either of those two and FLAC? I know I can't tell the difference between 320 and flac anyway. I don't think that most people can even with exceptional gear.


 
 Agreed for the most part. I did some blind A/B testing with a friend on Foobar. (320kbps files ripped from FLAC files then compared to the FLAC) For the most part I was able to hear the difference about 80% of the time or more. The difference is very, and I mean ear straining, immediate A/B switching listening. So yes... normally when just listening to music and not trying to analyze and hear the difference, it is basically negligible.


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> Hey Jay! So, are you preferring the Bifrost on first blush?


 
 well, lets start by saying, the bifrost i have, is usb2, no uber(yet),
 the first thing that jumped out at me, was a little more bass, highs , while not harsh, not as smooth as the dacIT
 now, when i had the modi, i did notice quite an improvement in its top end smoothing out over a few days
 so far, so good, can really say one's better than the other though, just different


----------



## pdrm360

Just got my schiits (Bifrost & Lyr)


----------



## Byronb

pdrm360 said:


> Just got my schiits (Bifrost & Lyr)


 
  
 Congrats, welcome to the club!!


----------



## peepr

with what cans?


----------



## pdrm360

peepr said:


> with what cans?


 
 Senn HD700


----------



## pdrm360

byronb said:


> Congrats, welcome to the club!!


 
 Thanks!


----------



## traehekat

Should I have to manually adjust the sample rate in the Audio MIDI Setup with the Bifrost? I have been playing mostly 44.1/16 in iTunes but when I went to the MIDI just now I saw it was set at 96/16. Isn't the Bifrost supposed to match all this up automatically with the clock?


----------



## gefski

traehekat said:


> Should I have to manually adjust the sample rate in the Audio MIDI Setup with the Bifrost? I have been playing mostly 44.1/16 in iTunes but when I went to the MIDI just now I saw it was set at 96/16. Isn't the Bifrost supposed to match all this up automatically with the clock?



I was doing that for a long time, then realized that when I didn't, I got a message from Jplay "dac switched sample rate" at the beginning of playback of whatever files. So yes, I believe Bifrost does that when it recieves the data. It just doesn't have indicator lights to say so.


----------



## traehekat

gefski said:


> I was doing that for a long time, then realized that when I didn't, I got a message from Jplay "dac switched sample rate" at the beginning of playback of whatever files. So yes, I believe Bifrost does that when it recieves the data. It just doesn't have indicator lights to say so.


 
 Thanks, yeah it looks like when I switch from 44.1 to 96 it changes automatically, but it doesn't change 16 to 24.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Jason or mike.... could you PLEASE check the emails? I just want an answer one way or the other


----------



## Erukian

traehekat said:


> Should I have to manually adjust the sample rate in the Audio MIDI Setup with the Bifrost? I have been playing mostly 44.1/16 in iTunes but when I went to the MIDI just now I saw it was set at 96/16. Isn't the Bifrost supposed to match all this up automatically with the clock?


 
  
 I'm using SPDIF and have found apps like BitPerfect, Amarra, Audirvana will change those settings automatically for you. If you use USB I think you would benefit from BitPerfect's integer mode (which SPDIF can't). The app is super minimalistic compared to some of the other audio players for the mac that have imho some pretty gaudy interfaces.


----------



## pdrm360

taliesin said:


> Between the Asgard 2 and the Lyr, which do people recommend for the HD700?


 
  
 You won't go wrong with either.


----------



## kothganesh

taliesin said:


> Between the Asgard 2 and the Lyr, which do people recommend for the HD700?


Well pick your poison; one's SS, the other is a tube amp. I own both and the Asgard is more neutral of the two, IMO. The Lyr will pack a better punch.


----------



## FangJoker

I just got my HD 650 yesterday and now I'm going down this road of thinking about dacs and amps already.  I wish I could listen to them first before buying.  I'm probably sure that it will sound so much better than what I'm getting out from the asus stx sound card, but the hardest part is deciding whether or not to go with the valhalla or asgard 2.  I've never had a tube amp and I figure if I'm going  to do it, I  might as well go all in.    Then I bet I'll be looking for a better set of cans too.  Hmmm nah. These sound great and they aren't even broken in yet.   I can't go back to IEM now.


----------



## Barry S

vegasf1 said:


> I just got my HD 650 yesterday and now I'm going down this road of thinking about dacs and amps already.  I wish I could listen to them first before buying.  I'm probably sure that it will sound so much better than what I'm getting out from the asus stx sound card, but the hardest part is deciding whether or not to go with the valhalla or asgard 2.  I've never had a tube amp and I figure if I'm going  to do it, I  might as well go all in.    Then I bet I'll be looking for a better set of cans too.  Hmmm nah. These sound great and they aren't even broken in yet.   I can't go back to IEM now.




The Valhalla is an OTL amp that plays better with high impedance headphones, like the HD650s. When you buy another set of headphones (and you will if you stay on head-fi), they may be low impedance, and an amp like the Asgard 2 will do well with a wide range of impedance. The Lyr is a very nice hybrid tube/solid state amp that will get you some of that tube warmth, but also covers a wide range of impedance.


----------



## jaywillin

barry s said:


> The Valhalla is an OTL amp that plays better with high impedance headphones, like the HD650s. When you buy another set of headphones (and you will if you stay on head-fi), they may be low impedance, and an amp like the Asgard 2 will do well with a wide range of impedance. The Lyr is a very nice hybrid tube/solid state amp that will get you some of that tube warmth, but also covers a wide range of impedance.



I'm about to find out about how wide a range of headphones the lyr can handle, until now, just grados , arriving soon, hifiman he-4's


----------



## Barry S

jaywillin said:


> I'm about to find out about how wide a range of headphones the lyr can handle, until now, just grados , arriving soon, hifiman he-4's




That would be a pretty wide range. The Lyr may not be ideal for all headphones, but everything I've heard sounds at least good out of the Lyr.


----------



## pdrm360

vegasf1 said:


> I just got my HD 650 yesterday and now I'm going down this road of thinking about dacs and amps already.  I wish I could listen to them first before buying.  I'm probably sure that it will sound so much better than what I'm getting out from the asus stx sound card, but the hardest part is deciding whether or not to go with the valhalla or asgard 2.  I've never had a tube amp and I figure if I'm going  to do it, I  might as well go all in.    Then I bet I'll be looking for a better set of cans too.  Hmmm nah. These sound great and they aren't even broken in yet.   I can't go back to IEM now.


 
  
 The Valhalla would be the best choose for the HD650. The Valhalla really brings the HD650 to life.  I do like either the Lyr or Asgard for the HD600 and HD700.


----------



## nelamvr6

The design topography of the Valhalla makes it a particularly good match for high Z headphones, but there's nothing about high Z headphones that automatically makes the Lyr a bad choice.
  
 In fact, (and at this point I should probably point out that I have a Lyr, and I've never heard a Valhalla, so I am at least a little biased), the Lyr should match up wonderfully with a much wider range of cans than the Valhalla.


----------



## pdrm360

The Valhalla is an OTL amp with nice sparkle on the treble that makes it a very good match with HD650.
 IMO, the HD650 has a dark sound signature that needs a brighter tube amp to bring things out.


----------



## nelamvr6

pdrm360 said:


> The Valhalla is an OTL amp with nice sparkle on the treble that makes it a very good match with HD650.
> IMO, the HD650 has a dark sound signature that needs a brighter tube amp to bring things out.


 
  
 What's nice about the Lyr is that tube rolling can be very effective in tailoring sound signature if your particular set of headphones needs some help.
  
 Personally, I think you can't go wrong really with either one.  But if you buy a Valhalla because you have high Z cans now, you may be facing a mismatch if you ever want to give headphones with lower impedance a try.


----------



## pdrm360

Actually I've chosen the Lyr over the Valhalla for myself, just because it’s was a better all-rounder amp.


----------



## ThinJ

I'm in the situation you're describing right now. I've got a Little Dot MKIII that I bought a long time ago to go with a pair of DT990 600's and some other random cans. Then most recently I picked up some HiFiman HE-400's and the pairing isn't so hot. I also have a Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 but the actual headphone amp in that is pretty bad. As a tube preamp output stage for my speakers it works (and sounds) great but as an alternative headphone amp to my Little Dot it fails.

 I ended up ordering an Asgard 2. Of course I didn't notice until about a week after I put in the order that it was backordered until the 15th of this month, but I can wait I guess, and there's just no way I was ever going to justify the extra cost on the Lyr.
  
 The only complication I'm going to have is finding a way to keep both amps hooked up to my DAC so I can still use the Little Dot when I want/need to.


----------



## pdrm360

thinj said:


> I'm in the situation you're describing right now. I've got a Little Dot MKIII that I bought a long time ago to go with a pair of DT990 600's and some other random cans. Then most recently I picked up some HiFiman HE-400's and the pairing isn't so hot. I also have a Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 but the actual headphone amp in that is pretty bad. As a tube preamp output stage for my speakers it works (and sounds) great but as an alternative headphone amp to my Little Dot it fails.
> 
> I ended up ordering an Asgard 2. Of course I didn't notice until about a week after I put in the order that it was backordered until the 15th of this month, but I can wait I guess, and there's just no way I was ever going to justify the extra cost on the Lyr.
> 
> The only complication I'm going to have is finding a way to keep both amps hooked up to my DAC so I can still use the Little Dot when I want/need to.


 
  
 You also can use the Asgard 2 as a pre-amp for the Little Dot.


----------



## ThinJ

That would work but it would cut my speakers out of the loop. I switch back and forth too often for that to be practical.


----------



## jaywillin

thinj said:


> That would work but it would cut my speakers out of the loop. I switch back and forth too often for that to be practical.


 
 i had just the set up you're are wanting, the fiio eo9k has line, and pre outs, the line out fed the little dot, the pre's the psb ps1's
 never had to change a cable
  
 of course, sound quality wasn't up to the lyr's, but it was convenient


----------



## traehekat

http://schiit.com/products/loki
  

  
  
  
 Awesome.


----------



## Erukian

Oh Schiit!
  
 Here I was hoping for updated DAC boards for my Gungnir to add DSD. Something that would detect the incoming signal ie. PCM or DSD and automagically switch.
  
 Still a cool product that will bring in new Schiit customers.


----------



## FangJoker

Ok so I'm close to buying the valhalla based on recommendations here.  Now I'm wondering if I should just get the bifrost as well.  I do like that it can be upgraded so I won't have to buy another whole unit again.   The woo7 is also on the short list because of the size, looks cool, and seems to be what I want (dac and amp).  I really need to organize my desk and measure the available space for the amp/dac or put a small table next to my desk.  Space is going to be tight for valhalla/bifrost combo.  It's my first choice over the woo offerings even though it seems like woo seems to be more hyped.  I think I just like the ability to upgrade.  I don't plan on buying too much more stuff after I get everything I need.  I have too much other hobbies that take my $$$.


----------



## PassiveO

vegasf1 said:


> Ok so I'm close to buying the valhalla based on recommendations here.  Now I'm wondering if I should just get the bifrost as well.  I do like that it can be upgraded so I won't have to buy another whole unit again.   The woo7 is also on the short list because of the size, looks cool, and seems to be what I want (dac and amp).  I really need to organize my desk and measure the available space for the amp/dac or put a small table next to my desk.  Space is going to be tight for valhalla/bifrost combo.  It's my first choice over the woo offerings even though it seems like woo seems to be more hyped.  I think I just like the ability to upgrade.  I don't plan on buying too much more stuff after I get everything I need.  I have too much other hobbies that take my $$$.


 
 If you buy a Valhalla (I own a Lyr) the I'd highly recommend the Bifrost Uber; I'd recommend it unconditionally with any headphone amp (realizing the Woo7 has an integrated DAC).
  
 I am a DAC veteran, and have owned many, both low and high cost. The Bifrost is the best per dollar piece of kit I've owned in 20 years of audiophilia madness. It's strengths are no obvious flaws and perfect flow and dedication to the music. Nothing flashy and excellent performance.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## kothganesh

passiveo said:


> .........
> 
> *I am a DAC veteran, and have owned many, both low and high cost. The Bifrost is the best per dollar piece of kit I've owned in 20 years of audiophilia madness. It's strengths are no obvious flaws and perfect flow and dedication to the music. Nothing flashy and excellent performance.*


 
  
 Wow, that's an endorsement ! I own the Bifrost and need to fix the Uber card and also have the Gungnir. Have you heard the Gungnir ? if so, any opinions ? I keep hearing about PWD 2, Mytek, Metrum etc etc.


----------



## ngyu

vegasf1 said:


> I just got my HD 650 yesterday and now I'm going down this road of thinking about dacs and amps already.  I wish I could listen to them first before buying.  I'm probably sure that it will sound so much better than what I'm getting out from the asus stx sound card, but the hardest part is deciding whether or not to go with the valhalla or asgard 2.  I've never had a tube amp and I figure if I'm going  to do it, I  might as well go all in.    Then I bet I'll be looking for a better set of cans too.  Hmmm nah. These sound great and they aren't even broken in yet.   I can't go back to IEM now.


 
  
 i was in your situation prior to getting my schiit. I had the ASUS Essence STX, and was debating between the asgard 2 and valhalla (I have the HD650). Ended up getting the Uberfrost and Lyr, and now I've made the jump to orthos as well (HE-500)! Couldn't be happier. Like you said... might as well go all-in =). Or the Mjolnir/Gungnir LOL


----------



## kothganesh

ngyu said:


> i was in your situation prior to getting my schiit. I had the ASUS Essence STX, and was debating between the asgard 2 and valhalla (I have the HD650). Ended up getting the Uberfrost and Lyr, and now I've made the jump to orthos as well (HE-500)! Couldn't be happier. Like you said... might as well go all-in =). Or the Mjolnir/Gungnir LOL



Uberfrost+Lyr is plenty for most orthos. M/G will just slaughter the U/L for all orthos.


----------



## ngyu

kothganesh said:


> Uberfrost+Lyr is plenty for most orthos. M/G will just slaughter the U/L for all orthos.


 
  
 Haha, I haven't had much time putting my HE500 on my friend's Mjolnir/Gungnir, but from what I remember, the Mjolnir/Gungnir only gave additional headroom, and a bit colder/analytical sounding than my Uberfrost/Lyr (with 6N1P tubes from Schiit). I don't think orthos (at least the HE500) benefited much from being balanced, as compared to the HD650, which scaled up massively when balanced. The soundstage stayed close on the HE500.


----------



## FangJoker

ngyu said:


> i was in your situation prior to getting my schiit. I had the ASUS Essence STX, and was debating between the asgard 2 and valhalla (I have the HD650). Ended up getting the Uberfrost and Lyr, and now I've made the jump to orthos as well (HE-500)! Couldn't be happier. Like you said... might as well go all-in =). Or the Mjolnir/Gungnir LOL


 
  
 I think I'll stick with the HD 650.  I don't want to buy another set of cans (gf will notice and kill me) or sell it and lose money on it.  I'll just add the uberfrost and valhalla and call it a day.  I really don't have much more space for a bigger amp and dac on my desk.   In the beginning I just wanted better sound from my speakers and headphones (ue 900) which are good iem for the price then I thought since that I listen to all of my music at home on the computer, I might as well get a set of cans since I don't need the portability of IEM.  Now that I started I do see the end of the road.  I really do have too many hobbies that burn cash and I do not listen to music all the time so I believe what I will be getting is far more than enough for me.  But I do admit that I do wonder about other products too.


----------



## Barry S

ngyu said:


> Haha, I haven't had much time putting my HE500 on my friend's Mjolnir/Gungnir, but from what I remember, the Mjolnir/Gungnir only gave additional headroom, and a bit colder/analytical sounding than my Uberfrost/Lyr (with 6N1P tubes from Schiit). I don't think orthos (at least the HE500) benefited much from being balanced, as compared to the HD650, which scaled up massively when balanced. The soundstage stayed close on the HE500.




I think the HE500 sounds better on the Lyr than on the Mjolnir--the tube warmth complements the brightish sound of the headphones--sort of rounds off the edges. The LCD2 is the exact opposite--miles better on the Mjolnir. the HD650 sound great on all my Schiit--Mjolnir, Lyr, and Magni. I don't think it's a matter of balanced vs. unbalanced (how can you even compare?), but the individual character of each amp.


----------



## pdrm360

barry s said:


> I think the HE500 sounds better on the Lyr than on the Mjolnir--the tube warmth complements the brightish sound of the headphones--sort of rounds off the edges. The LCD2 is the exact opposite--miles better on the Mjolnir. the HD650 sound great on all my Schiit--Mjolnir, Lyr, and Magni. I don't think it's a matter of balanced vs. unbalanced (how can you even compare?), but the individual character of each amp.


 
 IMO, the Valhalla is the best amp for the HD650 in Schiit line.


----------



## imahawki

imahawki said:


> I have a couple questions.  Overall I'm happy with my Mod/Magni for the price, but I get crackling when changing the volume on the Magni, and there is a constant low-level hum in the background.  Is this pretty normal?


 
  
 When I contacted Schiit they told me this wasn't right and gave me an RA.  It just arrived at their facility today.  I definitely want it back.  I'm newer to the hobby and this is the only headphone amp I own right now.


----------



## FangJoker

I pulled the trigger late last night.  I hope that the combo is better than the woo audio wa7 which would have looked great on my desk.  I just got a gut feeling that schitt was the way to go for me.  With the bifrost being upgradable, I'll be able to keep it for a long time and the tubes are a lot cheaper too.  I don't want to get into tube rolling and paying crazy amount of money that woo wants.  Maybe it's worth it, but I am definitely not an audio nut.  I just want good sound and don't have the need to spend thousands.  If I ever do get another set of cans, it will be a closed ear set.  My gf sometimes watches tv in the loft where my home office is and if I'm listening to something or playing a video game (I'd be plugging it in to the stx for this), I would like to keep  the noise out.  So I guess my next set is fostex th-900. lol


----------



## mazzelectra

Hey peeps,
  
 Been using the M/M stack at work for a while now. Have to say - such effortless power, I sense this setup may be overkill with the Momentums (have to really watch my levels lol) :
  

  
*Warrior Princess Approved!*
  
 Loving the sound 
  
 Next up : AMP/DAC combo decision and purchase for main home station (driving Q701 + HD580) - leaning hard towards an überfrost / Lyr combo.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have an Uberfrost / Lyr combo driving HD600s.  They make beautiful music together.


----------



## elwappo99

mazzelectra said:


>


 
  
 Schiit gear always looks so clean and modern when stacked on itself


----------



## ngyu

elwappo99 said:


> Schiit gear always looks so clean and modern when stacked on itself


 
  
 +1, absolute work of art. simple, clean, sturdy, functional.


----------



## pdrm360

The Bifrost/Lyr and Bifrost/Asgard2 both are great for my HD700.


----------



## IorekByrnison

I've been living with the uberfrost+valhalla+t70 combo at my office desk for a while now, and it has only grown better with time - but the sheer novelty of how amazing it is hasn't worn off one bit, and I still catch myself gazing at the valhalla's beauty. 
  
 My magni+modi+hd439 is now at home, being used as a sound-out for one of my arcade computers and only gets used to play sound voltex mostly because I don't want to have to switch my computer speakers over manually - and it's beautiful overkill.
  
 After quite a while listening to all this Schiit, I have come to the conclusion that my initial conclusion that Schiit is the best thing since sliced Beats stands true. I can't wait to see what secret lurks within Yggdrasil. These guys are _amazing._
  
 If you play Bemani, play some Bemani with your Schiit. Expect mindblowing.


----------



## FangJoker

I got my bifrost w/ uber and usb and valhalla today!     I finally have a tube amp and love it.   I still have to break in the cans and can't imagine how much better it will sound when everything is working at peak condition.   What other cans work great with this combo?


----------



## traehekat

vegasf1 said:


> I got my bifrost w/ uber and usb and valhalla today!     I finally have a tube amp and love it.   I still have to break in the cans and can't imagine how much better it will sound when everything is working at peak condition.   What other cans work great with this combo?




congrats, that is my exact setup minus USB on the bifrost. I'm still amazed by it every day, no substantial inclination to upgrade at all. Enjoy it, it gets sweeter and sweeter with time.


----------



## pdrm360

vegasf1 said:


> I got my bifrost w/ uber and usb and valhalla today!     I finally have a tube amp and love it.   I still have to break in the cans and can't imagine how much better it will sound when everything is working at peak condition.   What other cans work great with this combo?


 
  
 Congrats, with what cans?


----------



## FangJoker

pdrm360 said:


> Congrats, with what cans?


 
  
 Still breaking in senn HD 650.  I was looking at different beyerdynamic DT880,  T1, T70 before I settled on the HD 650.  I was wondering how those would fare with the combo I got.


----------



## pdrm360

vegasf1 said:


> Still breaking in senn HD 650.  I was looking at different beyerdynamic DT880,  T1, T70 before I settled on the HD 650.  I was wondering how those would fare with the combo I got.


 
  
 The Valhalla is a fantastic amp for HD650. It brings the HD650 to life.


----------



## FangJoker

pdrm360 said:


> The Valhalla is a fantastic amp for HD650. It brings the HD650 to life.


 
  
 Yeah it really does make it sound even better than before.  I didn't plan on buying an amp and dac, but I'm glad I did.   All of this stuff should last me a long time just as long as I don't stop in here too often and look at other equipment and get sucked into buying more expensive stuff.  
  
 I was an IEM guy for years and one day a few weeks ago I thought to myself why don't I use regular headphones since I work from home and never listen to music anywhere but on the computer.  I looked up some reviews which led me to here and looked around and saw an awesome deal at headphonedotcom for a 100 dollar gift certificate for 80 bucks so I promptly bought 5 of them and got my HD 650 for 400 which I consider to be a steal since everywhere is selling them for 500.  If only I could have gotten an amp/dac with that sort of discount, but I'm not going to complain as it seems that many of you feel that schiit is very under priced for the performance it puts out.  
  
 I really like the schiit I got even though it was my second choice at the time.  A few people's opinion's in this thread was the deciding factor as well as being more futureproof pushed the schiit ahead of woo audio.  I'm not going to lie, their stuff is super sexy but in the end I went with what was best for me.    Even my gf who is always giving me lectures about buying stuff is ok with it after listening to it and telling her that this is all I'll need for awhile.  
  
 I really don't know schiit about all of this stuff so thanks to all here who pointed me in the right direction.  All I know is that it sounds great and I'm  sure it will be better when my cans are broken in.


----------



## FangJoker

I do have one question.  In windows, what should I set my default format (bit and hz settings) to?   Right now it's set to 16 bit and 44100 hz which is the lowest setting.


----------



## joebobbilly

vegasf1 said:


> I do have one question.  In windows, what should I set my default format (bit and hz settings) to?   Right now it's set to 16 bit and 44100 hz which is the lowest setting.


 
 Use FooBar, or JRiver and set your output settings to WASAPI. (You'll have to download the WASAPI component for Foobar)


----------



## FangJoker

joebobbilly said:


> Use FooBar, or JRiver and set your output settings to WASAPI. (You'll have to download the WASAPI component for Foobar)


 
  
 I downloaded the WASAPI and it's not showing up.  I went into output and it's not available.  I have checked the components section and I see the file for it.  I've looked at several sites for help and I can't get it to load in foobar.  I like the interface more than jriver so I would hope that I can get it to load someday.   I'm wondering if it's a windows driver issue.  I do have it loaded through the usb port and I'm wondering if the driver doesn't want to load it.


----------



## Tuco1965

What do you mean loaded through the usb port?  If you have foobar installed the WASAPI plugin should install and be ready for use.


----------



## FangJoker

tuco1965 said:


> What do you mean loaded through the usb port?  If you have foobar installed the WASAPI plugin should install and be ready for use.


 
  
 Yes I have it running through my usb port and I do have foobar with the WASAPI plug in installed.  It's just not an option under preferences > playback > devices.  My directx is up to date for win 7.  I did remove my on board sound drivers and disabled it in BIOS when I installed the asus essence stx sound card.  I don't think there's anywhere in windows where I could have uninstalled it by mistake either. Should it be shown in device manager (in control panel)?


----------



## Tuco1965

When you right click on the volume icon on the taskbar and click on playback devices, do you see Schiit usb as a device?


----------



## FangJoker

tuco1965 said:


> When you right click on the volume icon on the taskbar and click on playback devices, do you see Schiit usb as a device?


 
  
 It shows it as a usb device.  It sounds good right now, but I guess I'm wondering how much better wasapi is.


----------



## elwappo99

vegasf1 said:


> tuco1965 said:
> 
> 
> > When you right click on the volume icon on the taskbar and click on playback devices, do you see Schiit usb as a device?
> ...


 
  
  
 So you're just missing WASAPI individually? Try musicbee instead. I found it to be a much better implementation for playback over foobar.


----------



## Tuco1965

vegasf1 said:


> It shows it as a usb device.  It sounds good right now, but I guess I'm wondering how much better wasapi is.


 
  
 Have you tried to reinstall the plugin?
 Just thought I would ask but you do have Vista sp1 or greater?


----------



## FangJoker

tuco1965 said:


> Have you tried to reinstall the plugin?
> Just thought I would ask but you do have Vista sp1 or greater?


 
  
 I've tried installing the plugin multiple times.  This is on a new gaming rig with win 7.   Is the difference that much better?  It sounds really good as is, but I am not an audiofile nut.  I'm more into cars and videogames.


----------



## Llloyd

Can you use wasapi through USB? I thought you could only use ASIO.


----------



## FangJoker

I downloaded musicbee and wasapi output works.  So it looks like  foobar doesn't like my system.  Maybe I'll also try downloading jriver.  People seem to think that it's the best sounding player out there.  I used to think all music players were alike for sound output, but I guess some people don't think so.
  
 The schiit/senn hd 650 combo sounds plenty good to me with or without wasapi.  I guess I don't feel that it is 100% important to have it, but I was curious if it made a big difference.
  
 edit:
 I downloaded jriver trial and wow it sounds better.  Just a little extra clarity and oomph.


----------



## ngyu

llloyd said:


> Can you use wasapi through USB? I thought you could only use ASIO.


 
  
 yup, you can run wasapi through usb. i use it all the time.


----------



## pdrm360

IMO:
  
For the HD800 and HD700, both Valhalla and Lyr are good amps but I like the Lyr more.
  
For HD650, All three Lyr, Valhalla and Asgard 2 are good amps but I like the Valhalla much more.


----------



## jaywillin

i'm about to go uber, the board arrived today


----------



## Tuco1965

Enjoy the uber.  I can't say how the sound differs from non uber because I've only had the uber.


----------



## jaywillin

had a bit of a scare, i got it all put back together, turned it on to listen, nothing !
 double checked all connections, still nothing.
 took it back apart, looked at it , when plugging the board in, i had missed with some of the pins !
 took the board back out, adjusted placement, put it all back together
 BOOM ! music
 i now have a usb gen 2 uberfrost


----------



## pdrm360

jaywillin said:


> had a bit of a scare, i got it all put back together, turned it on to listen, nothing !
> double checked all connections, still nothing.
> took it back apart, looked at it , when plugging the board in, i had missed with some of the pins !
> took the board back out, adjusted placement, put it all back together
> ...


 
 any improvement in SQ?


----------



## jaywillin

pdrm360 said:


> any improvement in SQ?



Yes, there is a noticeable improvement, but I need to spend some more time listening to get a better feel of what I'm hearing


----------



## gefski

jaywillin said:


> Yes, there is a noticeable improvement, but I need to spend some more time listening to get a better feel of what I'm hearing




What was the result of the Dacit vs Bifrost? 

If there was a result, how would you describe the personality of each?


----------



## jaywillin

gefski said:


> What was the result of the Dacit vs Bifrost?
> 
> If there was a result, how would you describe the personality of each?


 
 i went bifrost, it was very close, the dactIT had maybe a tad silkier top end, but other than that, the bifrost seemed better
 from top to bottom, the treble, while not as liquid, or silky , was just as extended, not harsh at all, better bottom end
 bigger sound stage, this was before the uber upgrade yesterday, i wouldn't have thought a $70 ad on analog board would improve the sound so much, the sound is more fleshed out
 i'm a very happy camper ! lol


----------



## Tman5293

So this showed up on my front porch today:


----------



## jexby

It also looks like some socket savers must have also arrived or been installed shortly after unboxing?
 thems lookin like tall tubes.


----------



## Tman5293

jexby said:


> It also looks like some socket savers must have also arrived or been installed shortly after unboxing?
> thems lookin like tall tubes.




They were included with the amp. I bought it used. It also came with 3 sets of NOS tubes.


----------



## MattTCG

Nice setup man!! Looks like maybe some Orange Globes. Also, I'm a little jelly of your TT. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One day...one day.


----------



## ngyu

Just wondering with regards to the Schiit Lyr preamp outs: do they output signal if I have my headphones plugged in? Or do they automatically shut off the preamp outs when headphones are plugged in?


----------



## MattTCG

Works like a mute switch if hp's are plugged in.


----------



## ngyu

matttcg said:


> Works like a mute switch if hp's are plugged in.


 
  
 Thanks. And I guess the signal goes through the tubes so there's no signal if the Lyr is off right?


----------



## MattTCG

You are correct.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Works like a mute switch if hp's are plugged in.


 
 i guess i have the older version, mine does not mute the pre-outs when the headphones are in use


----------



## MattTCG

You must be right. Mine definitely mutes with hp's plugged in.


----------



## ngyu

matttcg said:


> You must be right. Mine definitely mutes with hp's plugged in.


 
  
 weird, just got an email from Jason earlier today saying the Lyr's preamp outs do not mute, only the Asgard 2 does.


----------



## balancebox

so which places is best to by lyr.... really want one T_T


----------



## ngyu

balancebox said:


> so which places is best to by lyr.... really want one T_T


 
  
 straight from Schiit? or used on the head-fi marketplace?


----------



## balancebox

ngyu said:


> straight from Schiit? or used on the head-fi marketplace?


 
  
 want one for like 300...


----------



## Tman5293

balancebox said:


> want one for like 300...


 
  
 Good luck finding that. You might find a Valhalla for that price. Maybe.


----------



## KLJTech

What brand/type socket savers are some of you using and where's the best place to pick them up? 
  
 Thanks so much!


----------



## john777

kljtech said:


> What brand/type socket savers are some of you using and where's the best place to pick them up?
> 
> Thanks so much!




Tubemonger are what I used. I have a pair spare at the moment, but cannot decide whether to keep or sell.


----------



## balancebox

what do you guys to connect your schiit bifrost amp to lyr dac? is there like a 90 degree cable that just the perfect length for it or you have to make your own


----------



## kothganesh

balancebox said:


> what do you guys to connect your schiit bifrost amp to lyr dac? is there like a 90 degree cable that just the perfect length for it or you have to make your own



Don't mean to be picky but it's the Bifrost DAC and the Lyr amp . Anyway, I use the PYST RCA cables from Schiit. These things are meant for the Bifrost/Lyr or Asgard. Just make sure you stack the amp ON TOP of the Bifrost.


----------



## paradoxper

balancebox said:


> what do you guys to connect your schiit bifrost DAC to lyr amplifier? is there like a 90 degree cable that just the perfect length for it or you have to make your own


 
  
 You can use Schiit's PYST or BJC or Markertek to connect


----------



## Eee Pee

> In any case, you can get PYST, or you can save some money at *Monoprice*.


 
  
 From all the way on the bottom of this page: http://schiit.com/products/pyst-cables
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Eee Pee

A picture of the Monoprice 1.5 foot RCAs with the pieces of shrink tube cut off and cables pulled apart, and their pretty sweet 1 foot long power cords.
  
 ~$5 total.


----------



## balancebox

I'm thinking about buying from monoprice too, maybe a coaxial cable as well. just wondering from the lyr RCA out what do you guys use it for? speakerS?
  
 thanks guys


----------



## HPiper

Second...or maybe third that Monoprice cable reference. I just got a pair and they are really nice cables for less than half what my Monster cables cost. I am going to get a couple more as well.


----------



## jaywillin

balancebox said:


> I'm thinking about buying from monoprice too, maybe a coaxial cable as well. just wondering from the lyr RCA out what do you guys use it for? speakerS?
> 
> thanks guys



I use the preouts to control my powered speakers, PSB ps1s


----------



## Gerzom

Hi, I ordered a Schiit Modi today to upgrade my office desktop sound. Now I'm thinking of adding a Magni to the stack to take my first steps into head-fi. 
Questions I have is would the Magni work well a Grado SR-60i or SR-80i?
I'm using a Gungnir in my main system and am really, really happy with the sound of Schiit (had a Bifrost before the Gungnir) 
Also what would be the better choise to start with head-fi, the SR-60 or 80, or what other suggestions in the 100-170 euro price range come to mind that would work well with Schiit 

Thanks!!!


----------



## john777

Hi Fi + magazine issue 104 October 2013 review of Modi, Magni and PYST


----------



## ejwiles

According to FedEx, my Shiit M/M and PYST RCA cables will be delivered tomorrow!  I'm going to stop on my way home from work to pick up a USB cable.  Is there any difference between a $5 v. $25 v. $50 USB cable?  Sorry if this is a noob question.  Is a more expensive USB noticeably better?  Thanks.


----------



## pdrm360

ejwiles said:


> According to FedEx, my Shiit M/M and PYST RCA cables will be delivered tomorrow!  I'm going to stop on my way home from work to pick up a USB cable.  Is there any difference between a $5 v. $25 v. $50 USB cable?  Sorry if this is a noob question.  Is a more expensive USB noticeably better?  Thanks.


 
  
 No, Generally!


----------



## Gerzom

Slight change of plans, I bought a used Grado SR-325si yesterday evening, so based on that, I changed my Schiit-order to an Asgard 2. The amp should arrive next week, so can't wait to hook it all up and start listening


----------



## NZheadcase

ejwiles said:


> According to FedEx, my Shiit M/M and PYST RCA cables will be delivered tomorrow!  I'm going to stop on my way home from work to pick up a USB cable.  Is there any difference between a $5 v. $25 v. $50 USB cable?  Sorry if this is a noob question.  Is a more expensive USB noticeably better?  Thanks.




Buy a good quality USB cable for its build and robustness, not for how it sounds.  No need to go uber expensive, just a good one will do.


----------



## jaywillin

nzheadcase said:


> Buy a good quality USB cable for its build and robustness, not for how it sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 second
 i started with a mid priced generic from walmart type
 i've since gone entry level "audiophile" brand, usb, rca interconnect, nothing over $30, but well built


----------



## ejwiles

nzheadcase said:


> Buy a good quality USB cable for its build and robustness, not for how it sounds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


jaywillin said:


> second
> i started with a mid priced generic from walmart type
> i've since gone entry level "audiophile" brand, usb, rca interconnect, nothing over $30, but well built


 
  
 Good advice.  Thanks!


----------



## balancebox

i just have those normal usb cables... cant finally any premium ones on monoprice :/


----------



## paradoxper

balancebox said:


> i just have those normal usb cables... cant finally any premium ones on monoprice :/


 
  
 You've been given multiple sources for good cables, both in price and quality.


----------



## balancebox

paradoxper said:


> You've been given multiple sources for good cables, both in price and quality.


 
  
 yup thanks paradoxper ^^
  
 schiit shipping and cable are too much for me ^^;;;


----------



## ejwiles

Listening to my M/M Schiit stack right now...it sounds awesome!  Only question that I have relates to volume.  I kind of expected it to be louder.  I've seen a bunch of posts about digitally attenuating volume because the Magni can be so loud.  People have said the volume even at 10 o'clock was extremely loud.  I can turn mine up all the way, and it gets loud, but not insanely loud or anything.  Very linear between 0-100% and sounds great throughout the whole range.  I wouldn't listen to it at max for hours though.  I'm using Beyer 880 Pro 250's.  Volume through Windows 7 is 100%.  Just wondering if this is normal, or if I already need MORE POWER???


----------



## FangJoker

ejwiles said:


> Listening to my M/M Schiit stack right now...it sounds awesome!  Only question that I have relates to volume.  I kind of expected it to be louder.  I've seen a bunch of posts about digitally attenuating volume because the Magni can be so loud.  People have said the volume even at 10 o'clock was extremely loud.  I can turn mine up all the way, and it gets loud, but not insanely loud or anything.  Very linear between 0-100% and sounds great throughout the whole range.  I wouldn't listen to it at max for hours though.  I'm using Beyer 880 Pro 250's.  Volume through Windows 7 is 100%.  Just wondering if this is normal, or if I already need MORE POWER???


 
  
 The 250 ohms probably require a little more juice than what the amp is putting out.


----------



## UmustBKidn

ejwiles said:


> Listening to my M/M Schiit stack right now...it sounds awesome!  Only question that I have relates to volume.  I kind of expected it to be louder.  I've seen a bunch of posts about digitally attenuating volume because the Magni can be so loud.  People have said the volume even at 10 o'clock was extremely loud.  I can turn mine up all the way, and it gets loud, but not insanely loud or anything.  Very linear between 0-100% and sounds great throughout the whole range.  I wouldn't listen to it at max for hours though.  I'm using Beyer 880 Pro 250's.  Volume through Windows 7 is 100%.  Just wondering if this is normal, or if I already need MORE POWER???


 
  
 I frequently listen to my M+M stack with Beyer DT770 pro 250 ohm cans. They are the best set I own so far. They do seem a bit more power hungry than my other cans, but I don't have a lot to compare to.
  
 With my laptop (also win7) volume at max, and the Magni volume set just under 3 o'clock, I have a decent range of adjustment in iTunes. With those settings, 30% in iTunes is a moderate level, and 90% is quite loud. My volume setting in Foobar 2000 is also right at 50%.
  
 I have never been able to turn my Magni up to full volume. I guess I could, but honestly I wouldn't ever listen to it that loud. Of course, at almost 3 o'clock, I don't have much range left to go. But I don't max my volume in iTunes, and adjust with the Magni (as some recommend). If I were doing that, the setting on my Magni would be much lower.
  
 ...ok, I decided to try that. With my laptop at max volume, and itunes at max volume, adjusting the Magni to a volume I would listen to for the length of an album, I get about 11 o'clock on the Magni. If I crank it up to a level where it's on the verge of disturbing, I see about 1:30. I would not turn it up any higher for very long, and definitely *not *all the way up.
  
 Gah, sorry to keep editing this post, but I remembered something else ... when I was comparing the Modi to the Pure i-20 iPod DAC, I recall that the Pure i-20 drove my Magni a lot harder than the Modi did. After running for an hour or so, the Magni was much warmer than it ever gets when driven by the Modi. I postulated at the time that the output level of the Pure i-20 was higher than the Modi (though I don't know by how much). It was also much brighter and annoying (might have had something to do with that). Anyhow, that makes me wonder if another DAC might drive the Magni harder? Which might in turn give you more headroom on higher impedance cans? I don't know. On the other hand, I'm not sure that would be wise. I'm sure that Mike and Jason designed the Modi to drive the Magni at what they consider a proper level. Hitting it harder might have undesired side effects. Hmm.
  
 Finally, I wonder if you might have a cable issue? My cables are monoprice, mediabridge, and radio shack. Definitely nothing fancy, but they work. If you have other cables laying around, might be worth swapping things around a bit, just to make sure something hasn't gone wonky.


----------



## LibraryGuy

I'd second checking your cables against another set. 
  
 My Magni drove a set of Mad Dogs to painful levels before 12 o'clock unless I backed off on the digital volume. It certainly has the grunt factor. Admittedly, the impedance on those is low, so regardless of their sensitivity the Magni was perfectly happy to drive drive _drive._
  
 I also just noticed that Jason's profile has the Rag and Ygg listed in his inventory. Color me jealous.


----------



## Gnomeplay

ejwiles said:


> Listening to my M/M Schiit stack right now...it sounds awesome!  Only question that I have relates to volume.  I kind of expected it to be louder.  I've seen a bunch of posts about digitally attenuating volume because the Magni can be so loud.  People have said the volume even at 10 o'clock was extremely loud.  I can turn mine up all the way, and it gets loud, but not insanely loud or anything.  Very linear between 0-100% and sounds great throughout the whole range.  I wouldn't listen to it at max for hours though.  I'm using Beyer 880 Pro 250's.  Volume through Windows 7 is 100%.  Just wondering if this is normal, or if I already need MORE POWER???


 
  
 I'd also assume it's your headphones being 250 Ohms. I've driven planar headphones through the Magni to unlistenable levels, they're rated at 32ohms though.


----------



## balancebox

I was reading the lyr spec on schiit can it really damage headphone?


----------



## Barry S

ejwiles said:


> Listening to my M/M Schiit stack right now...it sounds awesome!  Only question that I have relates to volume.  I kind of expected it to be louder.  I've seen a bunch of posts about digitally attenuating volume because the Magni can be so loud.  People have said the volume even at 10 o'clock was extremely loud.  I can turn mine up all the way, and it gets loud, but not insanely loud or anything.  Very linear between 0-100% and sounds great throughout the whole range.  I wouldn't listen to it at max for hours though.  I'm using Beyer 880 Pro 250's.  Volume through Windows 7 is 100%.  Just wondering if this is normal, or if I already need MORE POWER???




HD650s are 300 ohms and I can't make it past 10 o'clock. Unless the the DT880s are really inefficient cans, something is limiting the signal. Sometimes additional audio software can limit the output with its own volume control--I'd check for that, too.


----------



## Tman5293

balancebox said:


> I was reading the lyr spec on schiit can it really damage headphone?


 
  
 Yes it can. I have the Lyr. It is fully capable of blowing headphone speakers if you turn it up too loud. Though you would severely damage your hearing long before that happened. After all, it is a 6 watt amp.


----------



## ejwiles

umustbkidn said:


> I frequently listen to my M+M stack with Beyer DT770 pro 250 ohm cans. They are the best set I own so far. They do seem a bit more power hungry than my other cans, but I don't have a lot to compare to.
> 
> With my laptop (also win7) volume at max, and the Magni volume set just under 3 o'clock, I have a decent range of adjustment in iTunes. With those settings, 30% in iTunes is a moderate level, and 90% is quite loud. My volume setting in Foobar 2000 is also right at 50%.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't think it's a cable issue.  I think I was just looking to turn it up to 11.  Normal listening level is about 10 o'clock.


----------



## ejwiles

barry s said:


> HD650s are 300 ohms and I can't make it past 10 o'clock. Unless the the DT880s are really inefficient cans, something is limiting the signal. Sometimes additional audio software can limit the output with its own volume control--I'd check for that, too.


 
  
 I've checked Windows and Foobar, both at 100%.  Is there another layer possibly in there somewhere that I'm missing?  I'm using a Dell laptop, so could there be some bloatware in there somewhere as well?


----------



## wahsmoh

barry s said:


> HD650s are 300 ohms and I can't make it past 10 o'clock. Unless the the DT880s are really inefficient cans, something is limiting the signal. Sometimes additional audio software can limit the output with its own volume control--I'd check for that, too.


 
  
 I think DT880s are really inefficient tbh. I run an Asgard 2 and Uberfrost with mine with 250 ohm DT880s and 12'oclock is perfect with high gain switch on. They sound properly amplified with the A2 though


----------



## UmustBKidn

ejwiles said:


> I've checked Windows and Foobar, both at 100%.  Is there another layer possibly in there somewhere that I'm missing?  I'm using a Dell laptop, so could there be some bloatware in there somewhere as well?


 
  
 Yes, there is. Sort of. It's tied to your windows volume control, but it's probably worth looking under Control Panel -> Sound, select your sound device, and click the Properties button. That will pop up a dialog like the one below. Browse through the settings just to make sure things are what they should be, namely, all sound effects off, and all volumes set up to max. Oh and yes, by all means, get rid of all the bloatware that you can. I do that religiously whenever I get a new box.
  
 Well, I should say, some folks like those settings off. Some like them on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 When I'm on the system with my not-so-good ATH M40 cans, I equalize those things like mad. Because they really need it. But I usually do that in itunes, not in control panel. For some reason, the EQ in control panel sucks compared to the one in itunes.


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone know if the new schiit dac will compete with the Mytek 192 or WFS DAC2?


----------



## paradoxper

magiccabbage said:


> Anyone know if the new schiit dac will compete with the Mytek 192 or WFS DAC2?


 
  
 Gungnir is already better than both.


----------



## magiccabbage

paradoxper said:


> Gungnir is already better than both.


 
  
 How do you make that out? If you haven't heard *YGGDRASIL? Doesn't the Gungnir have the same chip-set as the bit frost, only difference I could see it that it has 2. *
  
*Hopefully they will have a better DAC in the **YGGDRASIL*


----------



## Gerzom

Hi! i have a question regarding hooking up my incomming Asgard 2 to my Gungnir. Right now I'm using my Gungnir as the dac to play Spotify over my main system as well as the external dac for my cd player. So both sources are linked to Gungnir and then I hooked my Gungnir via xlr to my pre-amp. Can I just use the rca out-puts of the Gungnir to connect to my Asgard 2 and still keep using my onther sources to play over my speakers?

Thanks!


----------



## gefski

magiccabbage said:


> How do you make that out? If you haven't heard *YGGDRASIL? Doesn't the Gungnir have the same chip-set as the bit frost, only difference I could see it that it has 2. *
> 
> *Hopefully they will have a better DAC in the **YGGDRASIL*




I wonder what a BIT FROST is, who makes it, what it's design is, and how much it costs?


----------



## vincent215

gerzom said:


> Hi! i have a question regarding hooking up my incomming Asgard 2 to my Gungnir. Right now I'm using my Gungnir as the dac to play Spotify over my main system as well as the external dac for my cd player. So both sources are linked to Gungnir and then I hooked my Gungnir via xlr to my pre-amp. Can I just use the rca out-puts of the Gungnir to connect to my Asgard 2 and still keep using my onther sources to play over my speakers?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Wow a Gungnir for spotify with mp3 320kps. 
 How does it sound to you? Do you hear any differences with other dac that you have/had?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## paradoxper

magiccabbage said:


> How do you make that out? If you haven't heard *YGGDRASIL? Doesn't the Gungnir have the same chip-set as the bit frost, only difference I could see it that it has 2. *
> 
> *Hopefully they will have a better DAC in the **YGGDRASIL*


 
  
 Yes, the Bifrost and Gungnir sound exactly alike. My bad.
  
  
 Too much is focused on chipsets, there are other things to consider. 
  
  
 I've heard enough of the Mytek to know I do not like it and I'd prefer a whole slew of DACs over it.


----------



## Gerzom

vincent215 said:


> Wow a Gungnir for spotify with mp3 320kps.
> How does it sound to you? Do you hear any differences with other dac that you have/had?
> 
> Thanks.



Before this I used a Bifrost, and compaired to that Gungnir sounds more mature, just an overall improvement in details, staging, bass, etc. I'm also using it now as an external dac to my cd player (Electrocompaniet EMC-1) and there I notice a slicht improvement in staging and bass as well. So yes at first, it sounds like an overkill for Spotify, but in my system (Electrocompaniet pre and power amp and Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento speakers) it works really well and I couldn't be more happy with my Gungnir.


----------



## Erukian

vincent215 said:


> Wow a Gungnir for spotify with mp3 320kps.
> How does it sound to you? Do you hear any differences with other dac that you have/had?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 FYI, Spotify uses Ogg Vorbis not MP3, and listening to high quality lossy audio at 320kbps for some is a small price to pay for access to millions of records.
  
 That said, my Gun+Mjo+LCD-2, I suspect I can hear a difference, but it's just a suspicion as Spotify premium does sound very good.


----------



## magiccabbage

paradoxper said:


> Yes, the Bifrost and Gungnir sound exactly alike. My bad.
> 
> 
> Too much is focused on chipsets, there are other things to consider.
> ...


 
  
 interesting, the mytek is on my list but i prefer the look of the WFS dac2  and the nadm51. was the mytek bright? i use the t1 so i don't want more brightness


----------



## paradoxper

magiccabbage said:


> interesting, the mytek is on my list but i prefer the look of the WFS dac2  and the nadm51. was the mytek bright? i use the t1 so i don't want more brightness


 
  
 I'd say the Mytek was totally unenjoyable. But that's just me.
  
 Mytek is quite bright, Gungnir is too, but to a lesser extent M51 is a bit warm, very laid back sound.
  
  
 Some find the Mytek awesome and Gungnir meh, this hobby is just quirky.
 Find what seems to fit your preferences best.


----------



## magiccabbage

paradoxper said:


> I'd say the Mytek was totally unenjoyable. But that's just me.
> 
> Mytek is quite bright, Gungnir is too, but to a lesser extent M51 is a bit warm, very laid back sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 what would you recommend for 1500 - 2000?


----------



## paradoxper

magiccabbage said:


> what would you recommend for 1500 - 2000?


 
  
 M51 or Lynx Hilo would be front runners. Pure DAC is also looking interesting.
  
 It'd be a big mistake for me to leave the Octave out of the running.


----------



## pelli

gerzom said:


> Hi! i have a question regarding hooking up my incomming Asgard 2 to my Gungnir. Right now I'm using my Gungnir as the dac to play Spotify over my main system as well as the external dac for my cd player. So both sources are linked to Gungnir and then I hooked my Gungnir via xlr to my pre-amp. Can I just use the rca out-puts of the Gungnir to connect to my Asgard 2 and still keep using my onther sources to play over my speakers?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
  
 I don't think your question ever got answered, but if I missed it, my bad!  Yes you can run 3 amps simultaniously off the Gungir ( XLR, 2 RCA).  I have mine hoked up to Mujlnir, and i2 other amps.  I run multiple at the same time quite often.


----------



## Gerzom

pelli said:


> I don't think your question ever got answered, but if I missed it, my bad!  Yes you can run 3 amps simultaniously off the Gungir ( XLR, 2 RCA).  I have mine hoked up to Mujlnir, and i2 other amps.  I run multiple at the same time quite often.




Thanks!!!


----------



## ejwiles

umustbkidn said:


> Yes, there is. Sort of. It's tied to your windows volume control, but it's probably worth looking under Control Panel -> Sound, select your sound device, and click the Properties button. That will pop up a dialog like the one below. Browse through the settings just to make sure things are what they should be, namely, all sound effects off, and all volumes set up to max. Oh and yes, by all means, get rid of all the bloatware that you can. I do that religiously whenever I get a new box.
> 
> Well, I should say, some folks like those settings off. Some like them on
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks.  I disabled all of those and didn't notice any change.  Your reply did prompt me to go into the EQ in Foobar, which was all messed up from trying to get better sound straight out of my laptop.  I zero'd the EQ and it cleared the sound up a bunch.


----------



## Mysteri0

Well I made the plunge and got the überfrost and the Asgard 2 for my K701s/DT 990 250ohm to use on my home desktop.. Should arrive shortly..


----------



## balancebox

hmm shipping for uber card it self is 30 to canada =( anyone know where I can get it cheaper


----------



## Tman5293

balancebox said:


> hmm shipping for uber card it self is 30 to canada =( anyone know where I can get it cheaper


 
  
 The only way to get Schiit products cheaper than on the Schiit website is to buy them used. The for sale section here on Head-Fi is a good place to look.


----------



## balancebox

tman5293 said:


> The only way to get Schiit products cheaper than on the Schiit website is to buy them used. The for sale section here on Head-Fi is a good place to look.


 
 ya I brought a bifrost local and a lyr from another headfier both on the way but need uber card XD
  
 maybe I will wait a while... before I have enough cash for it


----------



## jaywillin

balancebox said:


> ya I brought a bifrost local and a lyr from another headfier both on the way but need uber card XD
> 
> maybe I will wait a while... before I have enough cash for it


 
 i bought a demo bifrost, got a good price, it sounds great , and bought the uber board when i had the cash
 now it definitely is an upgrade, don't get me wrong, but, its not like its a night and day difference
 be patient keep on the lookout on the for sale thread, even put an ad up for one,
  
 you might could try some dealers, there are some dealers , i got my demo from audio advisor


----------



## Netrum

If i am lucky, i will be a happy owner of a Asgard 2 by wednesday or thursday.
 I am so excited my stomach acted up and prevented me from going to work today.


----------



## Tman5293

netrum said:


> If i am lucky, i will be a happy owner of a Asgard 2 by wednesday or thursday.
> I am so excited my stomach acted up and prevented me from going to work today.




So one could say that you felt like Schiit?


----------



## Netrum

Hahaha good one sir.


----------



## Gerzom

Just received confirmation that my Asgard 2 will arrive on Wednesday, looking forward to hearing the difference on my Grado between the music direclty from my iPad vs via the Asgard. 

Should be great, based on what I've read so far.


----------



## balancebox

for lyr tube installation 
  
 does the tube have to touch the socket?
  
 my front tube when in fine but rear one, wont good in all the way, dont want to use more force


----------



## jaywillin

balancebox said:


> for lyr tube installation
> 
> does the tube have to touch the socket?
> 
> my front tube when in fine but rear one, wont good in all the way, dont want to use more force


 
  
  
 you're putting tubes in for the first time ??
  
 just make sure the pins, and holes are properly aligned, and push, there will be some resistance , the bottom of the tub should be flush with the tube socket


----------



## Themorganlett85

Hey, I'm going to be ordering a Schiit Valhalla in the next few weeks and I had a question to those that already have one, does it come with all the cables needed to hook up to my computer and if not which ones do I need? Mind that it my computer sits in the floor so I would need a longer cable to reach. Thank you for your help in advance.


----------



## halfrican

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey, I'm going to be ordering a Schiit Valhalla in the next few weeks and I had a question to those that already have one, does it come with all the cables needed to hook up to my computer and if not which ones do I need? Mind that it my computer sits in the floor so I would need a longer cable to reach. Thank you for your help in advance.




Only comes with power cable, you can order some nice cables direct from Schiit (PYST).


----------



## halfrican

halfrican said:


> Only comes with power cable, you can order some nice cables direct from Schiit (PYST).




Just re-read your question, the PYST cables are very short (for stacking) any reasonable quality rca interconnect will do you fine. You might want to consider a better quality cable if you have a long run though.


----------



## gefski

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey, I'm going to be ordering a Schiit Valhalla in the next few weeks and I had a question to those that already have one, does it come with all the cables needed to hook up to my computer and if not which ones do I need? Mind that it my computer sits in the floor so I would need a longer cable to reach. Thank you for your help in advance.



Mine came with a power cable only. Then you need a cable with right & left RCA inputs into Valhalla. You don't say what output jack(s) you have on the computer end. Somewhat longer than usual analog cables should be fine.


----------



## Themorganlett85

halfrican said:


> Just re-read your question, the PYST cables are very short (for stacking) any reasonable quality rca interconnect will do you fine. You might want to consider a better quality cable if you have a long run though.


 
  
 They will be plugging into my Asus Xonar Essence STX. Thanks for your help and one more question can you suggest a good site to order some better quality cables from?


----------



## balancebox

themorganlett85 said:


> They will be plugging into my Asus Xonar Essence STX. Thanks for your help and one more question can you suggest a good site to order some better quality cables from?


 
  
 monoprice.com
  
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814
  
 mine is on the way =)
  
 atm have stx -> lyr 
  
 my bitfrost coming tmr


----------



## sjeffrey

balancebox said:


> monoprice.com
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814
> 
> ...


 
 I have these cables.  I think they are fine.  No need to pay big bucks to get a good cable.  At least that is my opinion.


----------



## balancebox

Ya the previous owner put an extender on the tubes so they stick out more. So its harder to push in


----------



## Themorganlett85

balancebox said:


> monoprice.com
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome thank you very much, and congrats I can't wait for mine to come in. I'll be using the Asus STX as my DAC for a while but I'll eventually order the Uber Bifrost. Can't wait.


----------



## Tman5293

I have a question for anyone that has owned both the Modi and the Bifrost. Is the Bifrost worth the upgrade over the Modi? Does the sound quality increase significantly enough to warrant the extra cost? I'm considering purchasing the Bifrost with the uber upgrade to pair with my Lyr. I'm currently using it with the Modi and I'm not going to make the purchase if it's not a significant upgrade.


----------



## jexby

tman5293 said:


> I have a question for anyone that has owned both the Modi and the Bifrost. Is the Bifrost worth the upgrade over the Modi? Does the sound quality increase significantly enough to warrant the extra cost? I'm considering purchasing the Bifrost with the uber upgrade to pair with my Lyr. I'm currently using it with the Modi and I'm not going to make the purchase if it's not a significant upgrade.


 
  
 Well, despite your plea for someone who has "owned both", I have not laid hands on the Modi.
 But I have had the BiFrost Uber + USB 2.0 since May, and it's been stellar with my Asgard2 as well as the Lyr.
  
 Other Cliff Notes on the comparison, as this query has been raised frequently:
 1.  Jason at Schiit said the Modi is about 80% of the BiFrost. IIRC
 2.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard
  
 Of course, the BiFrost also has two additional inputs beyond USB that may or may not be applicable to your source.
  
 glowing words being said, I may need to be unloading my Asgard2 and BiFrost Uber/USB2 to fund a more portable config.
 so legit folks here with "real interest in Schiit" without lowball offers ("I'll take both for $100 please.")   send me a PM and maybe we can work something out before I put these up on the forums.
 cheers.


----------



## Defiant00

tman5293 said:


> I have a question for anyone that has owned both the Modi and the Bifrost. Is the Bifrost worth the upgrade over the Modi? Does the sound quality increase significantly enough to warrant the extra cost? I'm considering purchasing the Bifrost with the uber upgrade to pair with my Lyr. I'm currently using it with the Modi and I'm not going to make the purchase if it's not a significant upgrade.


 
  
  
 Over USB (original Bifrost, pre-upgrades) there was a difference but it was fairly subtle to me. Yes, the Bifrost is better, but I doubt anyone's going to claim it's 4x better. Still, if you want the other inputs or 24/192 support then it's an obvious choice.
  
 With that said, after switching gear around I ended up back with the Modi since I'm using it at work (USB only, dumb laptop) and I don't have anything beyond 24/96. Sure, I'd take a Bifrost (or Gungnir or Yggdrasil) if someone gave it to me, but Modi sounds good enough for the price that I don't miss my Bifrost.


----------



## jaywillin

tman5293 said:


> I have a question for anyone that has owned both the Modi and the Bifrost. Is the Bifrost worth the upgrade over the Modi? Does the sound quality increase significantly enough to warrant the extra cost? I'm considering purchasing the Bifrost with the uber upgrade to pair with my Lyr. I'm currently using it with the Modi and I'm not going to make the purchase if it's not a significant upgrade.


 
 i've owned the modi, had the biforst usb2 without uber, then upgraded to uber, which i still own now.
 the modi is great but the bifrost is better, how much better the uber is even better.
 significant is a relative term. whats significant to me, might not be significant to you
 that being said, i think if just depends on your other associated equipment, headphones, listening habits , and your budget really
 i have the lyr/uberfrost combo, and i love it !  if you like the modi, i think you'd like the bifrost even more, just my $.02


----------



## tuna47

+1 bifrost uber sounds great with lyr


----------



## MattTCG

tman5293 said:


> I have a question for anyone that has owned both the Modi and the Bifrost. Is the Bifrost worth the upgrade over the Modi? Does the sound quality increase significantly enough to warrant the extra cost? I'm considering purchasing the Bifrost with the uber upgrade to pair with my Lyr. I'm currently using it with the Modi and I'm not going to make the purchase if it's not a significant upgrade.


 
  
 I've owned both. If you have high quality rips of your music, it will make a very appreciable and worthy improvement. I have the uberfrost now and could never go back.


----------



## jaywillin

how'd the tube search turn out matt ??


----------



## MattTCG

Very much enjoying a pair of Orange Globes 68' vintage. One tube was a little noisy and I thought I was doomed but it cleared up on it's own. 
  
 You?


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Very much enjoying a pair of Orange Globes 68' vintage. One tube was a little noisy and I thought I was doomed but it cleared up on it's own.
> 
> You?


 
 '70 orange globes getting the most time
 but the surprise find, just took a chance on some tesla e88cc, gold pins, from russia, czech made, don't know how accurate all that is
 but they sound pretty good ! was like $50, i think,


----------



## MattTCG

I got a pair of Russians that I didn't know a thing about. I gave about $25 they were fantastic. I traded them and regret it to this day.


----------



## jaywillin

i got a pair of voskhods , '77's, from a guy on the lyr thread(well off ebay) they are pretty good, i don't have many hours on them yet though


----------



## tuna47

I have some nationals very inexpensive and sound good
My best though is orange globe A frames love them


----------



## jaywillin

tuna47 said:


> I have some nationals very inexpensive and sound good
> My best though is orange globe A frames love them


 
 just changed for my A frame orange globes, back to my mid 60's bugle boys, forgot how good they are !


----------



## MajorError

New forum member here...
  
 I'm sporting the Gen1 USB Bifrost and Lyr combo to drive my AKG 701s.  The Gen2/Uber upgrade is something I plan to do sometime soon...
 The supplied JJ tubes sounded rather lifeless, and now I find myself bouncing between the gold-pin Teslas and NOS Russian 6H23n-EB that a friend got me as a gift.


----------



## FangJoker

Are there any alternatives for valhalla tubes?  If so what are they?


----------



## balancebox

i'm having trouble install schiit cmedia use2 drivers keeps on failling unknown error?
  
 do I have to like uninstall my xonar drivers?


----------



## MajorError

balancebox said:


> i'm having trouble install schiit cmedia use2 drivers keeps on failling unknown error?
> 
> do I have to like uninstall my xonar drivers?


 
 I had a similar issue when I first installed mine.  For whatever reason, Win7 had the zip file flagged for encryption, and therefore the extracted files as well.


----------



## moriez

vegasf1 said:


> Are there any alternatives for valhalla tubes?  If so what are they?


 
  
 I only know of these here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


----------



## moriez

balancebox said:


> i'm having trouble install schiit cmedia use2 drivers keeps on failling unknown error?
> 
> do I have to like uninstall my xonar drivers?


 
  
 I don't think you would have to uninstall xonar. Unknown error? Is that the exact Windows message?


----------



## balancebox

moriez said:


> I don't think you would have to uninstall xonar. Unknown error? Is that the exact Windows message?


 

  
 uninstall my xonar still same thing. its not completing install.
  
 i try on my windows 8 notebook and it installed fine >< just my computer


----------



## moriez

Strange error. Hopefully this can help. If it were me I'd remove all audio-devices including the Nvidia with right click in Device Manager and choose Uninstall. Don't reboot before all audio devices are removed. Instead of reboot choose shutdown and restart in safe mode. When at desktop first install the C-Media again. Let me know if that did it.


----------



## balancebox

try to install in safe mode same thing. I even unpluged all my usb expect for mouse and keyboard and bitfrost dac T_T
  
 CmeAuVist64.exe cmedia driver keeps failing to be install. I add drives manual still no luck
  
 I dont know whats wrong
  
 I used windows 7 ultimate with sp1 upgrade


----------



## moriez

Uhh, PM'ed


----------



## LibraryGuy

Bifrost showed up today! I'm pretty much beside myself while I wait to get home and try it out...


----------



## jaywillin

libraryguy said:


> Bifrost showed up today! I'm pretty much beside myself while I wait to get home and try it out...


 

 oh you're in for it !!
 and i like the non-crazy part of idaho, i'm from the non-redneck part of alabama


----------



## balancebox

this is driving me crazy.... 
  
 can't get the bloody usb 1 gen to work (which I got from another head fier since he upgraded to usb 2)
  
 works on windows 8 laptop but no windows 7 pc....
  
  
 driver device status 
 "This device cannot start. (Code 10)" grrr


----------



## joebobbilly

majorerror said:


> New forum member here...
> 
> I'm sporting the Gen1 USB Bifrost and Lyr combo to drive my AKG 701s.  The Gen2/Uber upgrade is something I plan to do sometime soon...
> The supplied JJ tubes sounded rather lifeless, and now I find myself bouncing between the gold-pin Teslas and NOS Russian 6H23n-EB that a friend got me as a gift.


 
  
 Tried the JJ tubes on a friend's rig... was not impressed at all. Does not do the Lyr justice IMO.


----------



## LibraryGuy

libraryguy said:


> Bifrost showed up today! I'm pretty much beside myself while I wait to get home and try it out...


 
  
 Where is my optical cable!?!?!


----------



## pelli

jaywillin said:


> and i like the non-crazy part of idaho, i'm from the non-redneck part of alabama


 
  Georgia?


----------



## jaywillin

pelli said:


> Georgia?


 

 actually, i lived most of my life in georgia, just move to bama about 3 yrs ago


----------



## FangJoker

moriez said:


> I only know of these here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2


 
 Thanks for the link.


----------



## moriez

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Shoot Schiit support an e-mail I'd say. Or, make a system image of your current Windows installation and try a re-install of the OS?
  


vegasf1 said:


> moriez said:
> 
> 
> > I only know of these here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2
> ...


 
  
 You're welcome.


----------



## bearFNF

balancebox said:


> this is driving me crazy....
> 
> can't get the bloody usb 1 gen to work (which I got from another head fier since he upgraded to usb 2)
> 
> ...


 
 it does work on Win7, I had the gen one before ubering mine.  Try deleting all USB entries in device manager and let windows re-install them.  Also, just to make sure, did you install the Schiit driver from their site?  It needs to be initialized on each USB port the first time you plug in the device.
  
 From Tom hardware.com: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findbyerrormessage/a/code-10-error.htm
 excert from the link:
*Important:* If a USB device is generating the Code 10 error, uninstall _every device_ under the Universal Serial Bus controllers hardware category in Device Manager as part of the driver reinstall. This includes any USB Mass Storage Device, USB Host Controller, and USB Root Hub.

*Note:* Properly reinstalling a driver, as in the instructions linked above, is not the same as simply updating a driver. A full driver reinstall involves completely removing the currently installed driver and then letting Windows install it over again from scratch.
  
 Google is a wonderful thing...


----------



## jaywillin

bearFNF said:
			
		

> Google is a wonderful thing...


 
 its saved my rear end a time or two, and still finding new cool things google now can do on my phone !


----------



## balancebox

So after more uninstalling reinstalling. I somehow got it to work. I install directly from zip file and it just work....
  
 Not sure if foodbar dspproxy install was the cause or not.
  
 <3 thanks for all the members who helped me. big thanks to moriez by helping me though PM 
  
 how just waiting for my monoprice cables to get here


----------



## moriez

Hey, thanks for your PM. Excellent to see you've solved it! Windows can get funny at times.
  
 Enjoy that gear


----------



## gefski

Is anyone using a Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohms with Valhalla? If so, what volume setting do you use (o'clock) for normal listening levels? Thanks.


----------



## balancebox

gefski said:


> Is anyone using a Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohms with Valhalla? If so, what volume setting do you use (o'clock) for normal listening levels? Thanks.


 
 hmm about 9-10 o'clock is good enough for me


----------



## moriez

Have the same HP and the sweet spot for me is indeed ''around one'' ^ but I can be found around two a lot of the time too. Must mention the use of J$ pads which dampens the sound coming through.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Any news from Schiit at CanJam yet?


----------



## Tman5293

indiegradofan said:


> Any news from Schiit at CanJam yet?


 
  
 Well, there's this: 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp


----------



## MtnSloth

Waiting for thread to erupt . . .


----------



## jaywillin

mtnsloth said:


> Waiting for thread to erupt . . .


 

 BOOOOOOOOOOOM !


----------



## jaywillin

jaywillin said:


> BOOOOOOOOOOOM !


 

 BAM !!!!


----------



## tjcaustin

Also, I can't wait for the Lyr and Vali to be A/Bed.


----------



## elwappo99

mtnsloth said:


> Waiting for thread to erupt . . .


 
  
  


jaywillin said:


> jaywillin said:
> 
> 
> > BOOOOOOOOOOOM !
> ...


 
  
 It was so explosive, no one was left to post...
  
  
  
 The Vali was the long rumored safe guarded secret from Schiit. Also the Ragnarok made a debut.


----------



## IndieGradoFan

Probably unrealistic, but I was hoping for a nice RCA switch box to sit between Lyr and Bifrost.


----------



## elwappo99

indiegradofan said:


> Probably unrealistic, but I was hoping for a nice RCA switch box to sit between Lyr and Bifrost.


 
  
  
 Considering all the different varieties in amps now, it might be nice to have one if you had a Modi --> Magni/Vali so you could switch between them given the single RCA pair for the Modi.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tjcaustin said:


> ... Also, I can't wait for the Lyr and Vali to be A/Bed.


 
  
 Seriously?
  
 I think you're better off comparing a Bravo V2 (or perhaps an Indeed G3) and a Vali.


----------



## tjcaustin

umustbkidn said:


> Seriously?
> 
> I think you're better off comparing a Bravo V2 (or perhaps an Indeed G3) and a Vali.


 
 Why be incredulous?
  
 People A/B the different tiers of schiit gear all the time.  I want to know which of my two stacks will get it's matching tube brother first/at all.


----------



## Raptor34

indiegradofan said:


> Probably unrealistic, but I was hoping for a nice RCA switch box to sit between Lyr and Bifrost.


 

 +1   Hope it's not too unrealistic.  I've been waiting for one ever since I got the Bifrfost.


----------



## Gerzom

My current stack of Schiit.
  
 I've been listening to it now for a few days and I must say that I'm really impressed by this combo. Easy going, like my "speaker-system" so a real good match to the "sound" I like (relaxed and laid-back)


----------



## Netrum

gerzom said:


> My current stack of Schiit.
> 
> I've been listening to it now for a few days and I must that I'm really impressed by this combo. Easy going, like my "speaker-system" so a real good match to the "sound" I like (relaxed and laid-back)



Sweet setup sir!
I got my Modi today. Hooked it up to my Asgard 2.
And what a difference that was 
The Asus Xonar stx card i had is now going into storage.
This little dac is a huge improvement.

I am very very happy with my Schiit!


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice looking stack.  I'm expecting my Bifrost back today and can't wait to put my stack back together.  F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Just arrived!


----------



## Gerzom

netrum said:


> Sweet setup sir!
> I got my Modi today. Hooked it up to my Asgard 2.
> And what a difference that was
> The Asus Xonar stx card i had is now going into storage.
> ...


 
 Congrats on your Modi!!
  
 I found out that this Schiit works real well with stuff from Norway, my electronic are from Norway (Electrocompaniet) and they combine real well with my Gungnir DAC


----------



## joebobbilly

gerzom said:


> My current stack of Schiit.
> 
> I've been listening to it now for a few days and I must say that I'm really impressed by this combo. Easy going, like my "speaker-system" so a real good match to the "sound" I like (relaxed and laid-back)


 

 If you like relaxed and laid back... I would HIGHLY recommend the HD650 with the Mjolnir and your Gungnir


----------



## balancebox

netrum said:


> Sweet setup sir!
> I got my Modi today. Hooked it up to my Asgard 2.
> And what a difference that was
> The Asus Xonar stx card i had is now going into storage.
> ...


 
 DAC makes a huge difference. people are like upgrading their headphones expecting big improvement... source > dac > headphone upgrade order
  
 I still use my stx card for my speakers


----------



## MattTCG

Question for those who really know there Schiit. I have BF, lyr, and A2. Can I use the lyr pre amp outs to daisy chain the A2? I use the lyr most of the time but need the a2 occasionally and don't want to dig behind the desk to change out the cables. 
  
 thanks...


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Question for those who really know there Schiit. I have BF, lyr, and A2. Can I use the lyr pre amp outs to daisy chain the A2? I use the lyr most of the time but need the a2 occasionally and don't want to dig behind the desk to change out the cables.
> 
> thanks...


 

 i can't answer your question, but i bet you could answer mine, since you still have the A2, how do it and the lyr compare head to head sonically ?


----------



## ngyu

matttcg said:


> Question for those who really know there Schiit. I have BF, lyr, and A2. Can I use the lyr pre amp outs to daisy chain the A2? I use the lyr most of the time but need the a2 occasionally and don't want to dig behind the desk to change out the cables.
> 
> thanks...


 
  
 You can use the Lyr pre-amp outs to the A2, but if you do, the Lyr must be on since the pre-amp outs go through the tubes. Also, another side-effect, you'll be able to control the volume from the Lyr and the A2.


----------



## MattTCG

jaywillin said:


> i can't answer your question, but i bet you could answer mine, since you still have the A2, how do it and the lyr compare head to head sonically ?


 
  
 It's pretty much what you would imagine. The A2 is nice clean and resolving...pretty neutral (borrows tech from mojo). The lyr will have better dynamics, more weight and punch on the bass and much more power. 
  


ngyu said:


> You can use the Lyr pre-amp outs to the A2, but if you do, the Lyr must be on since the pre-amp outs go through the tubes. Also, another side-effect, you'll be able to control the volume from the Lyr and the A2.


 
  
 Volume control will work on both?


----------



## ngyu

matttcg said:


> It's pretty much what you would imagine. The A2 is nice clean and resolving...pretty neutral (borrows tech from mojo). The lyr will have better dynamics, more weight and punch on the bass and much more power.
> 
> 
> Volume control will work on both?


 
  
 thats correct, you'll be able to control the volume from both Lyr and the A2. the preamp outs on the Lyr are connected to the volume knob on the Lyr.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> It's pretty much what you would imagine. The A2 is nice clean and resolving...pretty neutral (borrows tech from mojo). The lyr will have better dynamics, more weight and punch on the bass and much more power.
> 
> 
> Volume control will work on both?


 

 yep, pretty much what i imagined ! lol i made the right decision then
 thanks!!


----------



## lord_tris

I only have small Schiit stack, My new DIY rack is in preparation for Mjonir and Gungnir


----------



## Tuco1965

Looks like your wallet is going to empty filling up that rack with gear.


----------



## lord_tris

tuco1965 said:


> Looks like your wallet is going to empty filling up that rack with gear.


 
 Hopefully not to badly.


----------



## Mysteri0

So my Schiit stack arrived yesterday, when I had initially made the order I had forgot to add the RCA and the USB cables to the order, got them added but they were not included in this shipment so were shipped separately. I'll have to scrounge around and see if I've got some RCA cables or build some new ones tonight and scrounge up a USB cable and try them out.


----------



## kothganesh

After listening to the HE-500 with the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack at home, I used the same HP with the Bifrost/Lyr (in the office). Man, was that a let down. Same songs sounded congested. Anybody have a similar experience ?


----------



## john57

I have the Lyr and it does not sound congested. Tube do make quite a bit of difference.


----------



## lord_tris

Small update, while listening to it


----------



## nfslmao

Just wondering, why isn't your Schiit stacked? Its sort of rare to see an un-stacked Schiit.


----------



## lord_tris

nfslmao said:


> Just wondering, why isn't your Schiit stacked? Its sort of rare to see an un-stacked Schiit.


 
 Technically it is the magni is above the modi, But they are not on speaking terms right now anyway, magni is having more fun with the yamaha anyway


----------



## NZheadcase

Off topic, but I would like to give a shout out to Jason and the guys at Schiit. 

I ordered some cables online and got the wrong ones. I had them shipped here to Middleearth, and thats when I discovered the mistake. Emailed them once and got a reply from Jason almost immediately. He was at RMAF, yet found time to respond! They sent me the right cables and shipped them all the way here at their cost -and they let me keep the other set (I did insist I would ship them back but they said no)! I will keep that money and spend it on future orders with them! Have since given them to friends to use on their systems along with the story of Schiit's great customer service.

On a related note, cannot wait for the Vali to become available. Itching to add that to my schiit stack.


----------



## MattTCG

I have had similar experiences with Jason and Schiit. Super responsive. They are really helpful and always bend over backward to give the best customer service. I couldn't ask for anything more. Hats off to those guys!!


----------



## Boss429

I agree too, I have been in contact with him about upgrading my Bifrost to the Uber and he has been very helpful and fast to respond. Even provides some humor here and there in the responses!!
  
 I would never hesitate to deal with them again, and I plan it eventually....lol


----------



## K-Otar

Has anyone used Fiio D07 as a DAC for the Asgard 2?


----------



## K-Otar

Also, is the Asgard a good amp to drive the HE-500?


----------



## syvlvr

Jumping in, have to admit I haven't gone through the 234 pages of posts...
  
 I'm happy with my Lyr/Gungnir stack. I thought to go to Mjolnir as well, but none of my sets are balanced...for now. I run my HD600, K702, and He400 with this setup. My one gripe was a slight hum/buzz that I was able to get rid of with a small device that also helped with my tube/hybrid integrated amp that I use for computer duty. I can share the model/maker if anyone is interested, for the device. I had tried various things but this nailed it, doesn't seem to take away from the sound.
  
 Just really happy with this setup, which is funny on the surface when you think about it. Tubes, solid state, and digital. Like others I have to search for the power buttons on the back, but for every device there's something.
  
 Next up, maybe some interesting tubes from the past...


----------



## awsanderson

I've been gone a while... I went back about 10 pages then gave up.  Is there any news on the new Schiit that is coming out?  I'm kinda in the market to replace/upgrade from my Lyr.


----------



## ejwiles

Not an upgrade from the Lyr, but there is this:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp


----------



## john57

awsanderson said:


> I've been gone a while... I went back about 10 pages then gave up.  Is there any news on the new Schiit that is coming out?  I'm kinda in the market to replace/upgrade from my Lyr.


 
 It will not be an upgrade from the Lyr. You can not roll different tubes and the power is limited to 640mW at 32 ohms for the Yali vs the Lyr at 6 watts at 32 ohms. There will be an new model called *Ragnarok *that will have, latter a tube option for $500 extra. However that is may cost about $2K with the tube option maybe sometime in 2014.


----------



## awsanderson

I guess the one coming out in 2014 was the one I'd heard about and was considering.  Rumor had it it would have speaker outs


----------



## Netrum

awsanderson said:


> I guess the one coming out in 2014 was the one I'd heard about and was considering.  Rumor had it it would have speaker outs



Yes that would be the Ragnarok.


----------



## zackzack

Does Schiit Audio ever consider including a separate power supply 
 to complement their amplifiers or DAC? Like Naim NAPSC which comes
 included with their Preamp NAC 282


----------



## Tuco1965

To be honest I don't think they like them.


----------



## vincent215

tuco1965 said:


> To be honest I don't think they like them.


 
 That's what I love about Schiit design.


----------



## Tuco1965

Yes it's nice and clean looking.  I enjoy my Lyr this time of year.  Kind of like a nice hand warmer.


----------



## Radioking59

zackzack said:


> Does Schiit Audio ever consider including a separate power supply
> to complement their amplifiers or DAC? Like Naim NAPSC which comes
> included with their Preamp NAC 282




From the Lyr FAQ:

*Why don’t you make a reeeaaalllly big power supply in a separate box and make Lyr sound even better?
*
Whoa. You’ve been brainwashed by the Two-Chassis Mafia, haven’t you? About 2/3 of Lyr’s total internal volume is already power supply. We’re talking two separate transformers (one for the tube stage, one for the MOSFET outputs), over 35,000uF of filter capacitance, and quiescent current of 130mA–which is more capacitance and higher quiescent current than we used to run in our 60 watt speaker amps! If that’s not enough, well, hell, I don’t know, maybe we sell a pallet of lead-acid batteries and a charger as an option. Or not.


----------



## awsanderson

radioking59 said:


> From the Lyr FAQ:
> 
> *Why don’t you make a reeeaaalllly big power supply in a separate box and make Lyr sound even better?*
> 
> Whoa. You’ve been brainwashed by the Two-Chassis Mafia, haven’t you? About 2/3 of Lyr’s total internal volume is already power supply. We’re talking two separate transformers (one for the tube stage, one for the MOSFET outputs), over 35,000uF of filter capacitance, and quiescent current of 130mA–which is more capacitance and higher quiescent current than we used to run in our 60 watt speaker amps! If that’s not enough, well, hell, I don’t know, maybe we sell a pallet of lead-acid batteries and a charger as an option. Or not.


 
 I love their web site, maybe because sarcasm and I are old friends


----------



## ejwiles

I don't get it.


----------



## syvlvr

I like their gear immensely. Between their obvious sense of humor, and gear that sounds good, no complaints. I have enjoyed pointing out the tubes on the Lyr, which makes people go wow, is it old. Then explain, no, it's current technology. Pun, yes, intended.
  
 Schiit is hott!
  
 And being that it's made in US, feels kinda special. What's made over here anymore? No offense to anybody, wherever they are. Just saying.


----------



## UmustBKidn

ejwiles said:


> I don't get it.


 
  
 Wait 6 months, and keep reading. You will.


----------



## UmustBKidn

syvlvr said:


> I like their gear immensely. Between their obvious sense of humor, and gear that sounds good, no complaints. I have enjoyed pointing out the tubes on the Lyr, which makes people go wow, is it old. Then explain, no, it's current technology. Pun, yes, intended.
> 
> Schiit is hott!
> 
> And being that it's made in US, feels kinda special. What's made over here anymore? No offense to anybody, wherever they are. Just saying.


 
  
 Tube type amplifiers are still modern technology in a few applications. In fact, in some specialized cases, they are far more efficient and practical than solid state amplifiers (satellite technology is one example). If you watch DirecTV (and any cable provider that gets any signal from a satellite), you're watching a TV signal over a tube amplifier - out in space, no less.
  
 Do you want a commercial microwave amplifier to use for test purposes? Or would you like to build a microwave relay tower? Many of them are made with tubes. Want to build a radar system for a large application (think military)? You're going to use tubes. Pretty much any kind of high power microwave application will still use a specialized type of tube amplifier.
  
 Just because the majority of TV's and radio's no longer use tubes, doesn't mean they're gone. For certain applications, they never went away.


----------



## jexby

syvlvr said:


> My one gripe was a slight hum/buzz that I was able to get rid of with a small device that also helped with my tube/hybrid integrated amp that I use for computer duty. I can share the model/maker if anyone is interested, for the device. I had tried various things but this nailed it, doesn't seem to take away from the sound.


 
  
 I'd be interested in knowing about your hum/buzz removal, because I just solved a similar issue.
  
 when using USB-->BiFrost Uber-->Lyr-->HE-500
 with no music playing, volume pot turned to max I could hear a slight buzzing and crackling coming through, no matter what tubes were in the Lyr, no matter the USB cable.
 I even tried a different DAC.
 yes Jason has said the Lyr is not drop dead silent, but this was more than hum.
  
 turns out my iMac (late 2009) has some VERY noisy USB ports.  because when hooking the same USB chain to my Macbook Air, the MBA produced a "dead black" background even with Lyr volume pot at max.
 somehow the USB crackle was leaking out over RCA from BiF to Lyr.
 Ground loop plugs didn't help, a GFI in wall didn't help.  moving iMac off UPS into wall didn't help.
  
 My fix:
 JK Audio Pureformer
  
  
 another purchaser on  a-maz-on
 posted a review that this device solved his humming as well.


----------



## NinjaHamster

ejwiles said:


> I don't get it.


 
 What don't you get ?  Specificity of content, please.


----------



## MajorError

jexby said:


> Ground loop plugs didn't help, a GFI in wall didn't help.  moving iMac off UPS into wall didn't help.
> 
> My fix:
> JK Audio Pureformer


 
  
 Not all isolation transformers are created equal...


----------



## jexby

majorerror said:


> Not all isolation transformers are created equal...


 
  
 probably true.
  
 can you compare, recommend or name alternatives please?


----------



## TMRaven

That sucks with the 09 imac usb thing.  I've never had a problem on my late 09 imac.  Apple's quality control isn't what it used to be.


----------



## MajorError

I haven't needed one in any home A/V or computing capacities...
 I use that very JK transformer in the car when I connect to the AUX input and charger at the same time.
  
 I don't have anything else I can really compare it to, as I jumped straight to it on the recommendation I saw somewhere 5-7 years ago...
 In practice, it does an excellent job killing 99.9% of the loud alternator whine; there's some signal attenuation and an _*extremely faint*_ alternator-induced hum remaining, but I consider this application the be an extreme situation.


----------



## syvlvr

jexby said:


> I'd be interested in knowing about your hum/buzz removal, because I just solved a similar issue.
> 
> when using USB-->BiFrost Uber-->Lyr-->HE-500
> with no music playing, volume pot turned to max I could hear a slight buzzing and crackling coming through, no matter what tubes were in the Lyr, no matter the USB cable.
> ...


 

 This is the one I bought, after I had tried a Tripp-Lite isolation transformer that did nothing for the buzz: MCM Custom Audio 50-9040 GROUND LOOP ISOLATOR 2 CHANNEL UNBALANCED RCA
  
 I think I had considered the one you purchased also. Either way, I know that it might be removing some signal but I can live with that, to get rid of the hum. I got rid of another integrated tube am because I hated the buzz, but if I had found these fixes I might still have it. I bought one for my computer setup as well...fixed the hum coming from the monitor, which has a very noisy power supply.


----------



## K-Otar

I’m looking for a DAC for my Asgard 2.  Does the "Bifrost Uber" have any audible advantage over the Bifrost?


----------



## jexby

k-otar said:


> I’m looking for a DAC for my Asgard 2.  Does the "Bifrost Uber" have any audible advantage over the Bifrost?


 
  
 1.  Could you please stop posting the same question in multiple forum threads, at the same minute no less?
  
 2.  being an Uber owner since May and never being a non-Uber listener, I can only summarize what I've read here:
 IIRC,
 Uber provides better clarity, soundstage, and some improvements to bass.
  
 most folks have called it "easily worth the $70 upgrade" (for new orders).


----------



## Radioking59

k-otar said:


> I’m looking for a DAC for my Asgard 2.  Does the "Bifrost Uber" have any audible advantage over the Bifrost?




http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-da-processor


----------



## Tuco1965

Skip buyer's remorse, just go uber and be done with it.


----------



## K-Otar

radioking59 said:


> http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-da-processor


 
  
 Thanks for the link!


----------



## K-Otar

tuco1965 said:


> Skip buyer's remorse, just go uber and be done with it.


 
  
 Thanks for your advice. I just didn't want to pay for snake oil.


----------



## jaywillin

k-otar said:


> Thanks for your advice. I just didn't want to pay for snake oil.


 

 its not snake oil, i bought a non uber bifrost, had it a while, then bought the upgrade, very much worth the $70 to me


----------



## jexby

k-otar said:


> Thanks for your advice. I just didn't want to pay for snake oil.


 
  
 Ya know, despite not "hearing" a non-Uber myself,
 yet based on Jason's open communications, no BS marketing and reputation of their product line-
  
 snake oil from Schiit is about the last thing I'd ever suspect they WANT to manufacture, much less foist on an unsuspecting public.
  
 questioning some new vendor or a fly-by-night operation is one thing, but Schiit has earned trust not to fabric product "improvements" for the sake of $ have they not?
  
 it's a personal thing to answer "is the $70 upgrade *worth it* to me"
 vs.
 does the upgrade do anything real or is it a fake.


----------



## jaywillin

jexby said:


> Ya know, despite not "hearing" a non-Uber myself,
> yet based on Jason's open communications, no BS marketing and reputation of their product line-
> 
> snake oil from Schiit is about the last thing I'd ever suspect they WANT to manufacture, much less foist on an unsuspecting public.
> ...


 

 and sometimes an upgrade may actually do something, and not be perceived by an individual, some may hear a difference
 some may not.
 "worth it to me" is absolutely a personal opinion , it couldn't be anything else really
 and i agree that snake oil from schiit would be very surprising !


----------



## pdrm360

k-otar said:


> I’m looking for a DAC for my Asgard 2.  Does the "Bifrost Uber" have any audible advantage over the Bifrost?


 
  
 You could upgrade the Bifrost to Bifrost Uber at any time.  I've upgraded mine and I should say it hasn't made a day and night different but for me it has made $70 different at least.


----------



## Armaegis

tuco1965 said:


> Skip buyer's remorse, just go uber and be done with it.


 
  
 In some circles, we call it a "teaching moment"


----------



## fenderf4i

My Asgard 2 and Uber Bifrost arrived yesterday. I had the original Asgard at one point, and regretted getting rid of it for the O2. I'm happy to have this set up.


----------



## SoulSyde

Great call on the Asgard over the O2.


----------



## sjeffrey

fenderf4i said:


> My Asgard 2 and Uber Bifrost arrived yesterday. I had the original Asgard at one point, and regretted getting rid of it for the O2. I'm happy to have this set up.


 
 I have the Bifrost matched with a BH Crack.  I love my setup by am jealous of how neat those 2 look stacked.


----------



## Tuco1965

sjeffrey said:


> I have the Bifrost matched with a BH Crack.  I love my setup by am jealous of how neat those 2 look stacked.


 
 Put some tunes on, shut off the lights, and just enjoy.  How it looks won't matter.


----------



## Robobandit

when I get home there should be some schiit in my mailbox.
  
 Can't wait 
  
 Ordered a Magni and a Modi earlier this week.
  
 Will be replacing a FiiO E10 dac/amp


----------



## Tuco1965

Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## Rem0o

Still listening to Odac/Valhalla/HD650 with 70's rocket logo 6n1p and some 80's novosibirsk 6n6p. Brillant combo.


----------



## pdrm360

rem0o said:


> Still listening to Odac/Valhalla/HD650 with 70's rocket logo 6n1p and some 80's novosibirsk 6n6p. Brillant combo.


 
  
 The Valhalla and the HD650 are a very good pairing.  It could be even better by the Bifrost Uber/Valhalla combo, it's my favorite setup for the HD650 unless you want to spend more than $1000.


----------



## Rem0o

pdrm360 said:


> The Valhalla and the HD650 are a very good pairing.  It could be even better by the Bifrost Uber/Valhalla combo, it's my favorite setup for the HD650 unless you want to spend more than $1000.


 

 Tried with Bifrost [non-uber], and I'm staying with the ODAC.


----------



## mac336

Question for Bifrost Owners:
  
 I currently have the original Bifrost (non upgraded) with USB
  
 recently, when watching movies and listening to music (via USB) the sound will become distorted (very staticy and the music is thin and muffled in the background while the static/distortion sound is loud) for about 20-30 seconds before it goes back to normal.  If I pause the audio and replay it, or rewind, it also goes back to normal.  
  
 this only happens occasionally.  the 2 previous times its happened (last eek) i was watching a movie and it was atleast an hour before it occurred 
  
 today it happened after listening to music for 10 minutes.
  
 I'm my setup is macbook pro -> Bifrost (USB) -> amp -> speakers
  
 I will pickup an optical cable so i can see if its the bifrost usb causing the problem. or maybe its some type of interference ?
  
  I don't think the macbook or amp has anything to do with it because I have used the same setup but with an ODAC and never had this issue.  
  
 Just curious if anyone has had a similar issue or could share any knowledge as to what could be the source of the problem


----------



## SoulSyde

I suspect that it is a RAM issue.  If you upgraded your OS X recently you may be at the memory capacity of your machine.


----------



## tjcaustin

mac336 said:


> Question for Bifrost Owners:
> 
> I currently have the original Bifrost (non upgraded) with USB
> 
> ...


 
  
  


soulsyde said:


> I suspect that it is a RAM issue.  If you upgraded your OS X recently you may be at the memory capacity of your machine.


 
  
 I've had the same issue pre/post mavericks upgrade on my mac mini.  I may look into getting ram, though.  Only have 4gb


----------



## olor1n

mac336 said:


> Question for Bifrost Owners:
> 
> I currently have the original Bifrost (non upgraded) with USB
> 
> ...


 
  
 I had this issue with a number of Bifrost units and the Gungnir. I recall Jason putting the call out for more details some months ago. Not sure if an official statement was ever made about the cause of the issue. Definitely not to do with RAM. I did everything to isolate the problem. Moving on from Schiit DACs solved it for me. Never once experienced this screeching issue with my previous DACs or the NAD M51 I now own.


----------



## SoulSyde

4GB of RAM is anemic for OSX especially if you are trying to run other applications simultaneously with high bit rate files.


----------



## Tman5293

mac336 said:


> Question for Bifrost Owners:
> 
> I currently have the original Bifrost (non upgraded) with USB
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I found the problem.


----------



## zantetsuken

Has anyone gotten random clicks while listening to any of the Schiit gear? I've just purchased a Lyr with stock tubes running with a LCD2 and Uberfrost, I seem to hear these clicks every now and then randomly when the music plays. I'm wondering if it could be the tubes?


----------



## Rem0o

zantetsuken said:


> Has anyone gotten random clicks while listening to any of the Schiit gear? I've just purchased a Lyr with stock tubes running with a LCD2 and Uberfrost, I seem to hear these clicks every now and then randomly when the music plays. I'm wondering if it could be the tubes?


 
 Bifrost clicks when it changes sample rate. Normal.


----------



## jaywillin

rem0o said:


> Bifrost clicks when it changes sample rate. Normal.


 

 did later revisions of the bifrost do away with the clicking when changing sampling rates ? mine doesn't click,
 jriver says i'm playing different rates, but when i change no clicking


----------



## Rem0o

jaywillin said:


> did later revisions of the bifrost do away with the clicking when changing sampling rates ? mine doesn't click,
> jriver says i'm playing different rates, but when i change no clicks.


 
 From Schiit Audio FAQ:

 """
Clicking When Changing Sample Rates/Pausing/Etc.
 
1. It’s totally normal for our Bifrost and Gungnir DACs to click (mechanically, from the chassis) during normal operation. That’s the muting relay, doing its job. It clicks whenever the SPDIF datastream is interrupted. 
 
2. If it’s clicking excessively on a PC or Mac, you can reduce it by routing system sounds to the speaker, rather than to the SPDIF output, or by using the USB input.
 
3. If it’s clicking excessively on a CD transport when in pause, the CD transport has a cycling interruption in the datastream. There’s no real fix for this, except getting another CD transport. It won’t hurt the Bifrost or Gungnir, though—the relays are rated for several million cycles.
"""


----------



## gefski

rem0o said:


> From Schiit Audio FAQ:
> 
> 
> """
> ...




This is good info and fits with what I've experienced. Don't recall hearing clicks with Bifrost USB, but when using Bel Canto link to SPDIF, I get clicks when loading tracks for playback in Jplay.

I'm fine with it.


----------



## zantetsuken

rem0o said:


> From Schiit Audio FAQ:
> 
> """
> Clicking When Changing Sample Rates/Pausing/Etc.
> ...


 
 Thanks for that guys just to add though I'm using a USB input, not SPDIF stream, and the click does not come from the chassis but from the speakers themselves occasionally, as though they were being fed a higher signal intermittently (its not common, but just thought I should check that it's not a fault or anything). It seems that the clicks occur randomly, in the middle of a song rather than between songs.


----------



## SoulSyde

zantetsuken said:


> Thanks for that guys just to add though I'm using a USB input, not SPDIF stream, and the click does not come from the chassis but from the speakers themselves occasionally, as though they were being fed a higher signal intermittently (its not common, but just thought I should check that it's not a fault or anything). It seems that the clicks occur randomly, in the middle of a song rather than between songs.


 
  
 What is your computer setup (PC, Mac, OS, amount of RAM)?


----------



## zantetsuken

Running a Windows 7 x64, i7 920 processor, 9gb ram, with foobar as my player set to "Schiit USB audio device".


----------



## jaywillin

rem0o said:


> From Schiit Audio FAQ:
> 
> """
> Clicking When Changing Sample Rates/Pausing/Etc.
> ...


 

 lol, yeah, after i posted the question here, and emailed jason, i THEN went to the schiit website , one day i'll do things in the right order ! 
 yes, jason confirmed that if USB is used(and i use USB), there shouldn't be any clicking, so, i'm good !


----------



## SoulSyde

zantetsuken said:


> Running a Windows 7 x64, i7 920 processor, 9gb ram, with foobar as my player set to "Schiit USB audio device".


 
  
 Hmm... seems capable of handling the load.
  
 I had some issues with crackling with other DACs on my i5 iMac until I upped the RAM to 16GB (which is overkill) and voila... crackling gone.


----------



## tim79b

Hi all!
  
 I recently purchased a Lyr + Bifrost (with USB Gen2 upgrade) combo along with a set of LCD-2's
  
 Whilst the SQ is on a whole other level to anything I've owned before in the head-fi domain, there is a constant underlying hum in the output to the headphones.
  
 I think this may be EM interference - the DAC/Amp are sitting directly behind my TV, above my main receiver, and next to a portable HDD on one side and my main speaker on the other - but haven't yet had the opportunity to shift the kit to test it.
  
 Setup is Mac Mini -> Bifrost (via USB) -> Lyr (Stock Tubes) -> LCD-2
  
 Any thoughts on what may be causing this IF it isn't EM?
  
 Thanks in advance...


----------



## sceleratus

tim79b said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I recently purchased a Lyr + Bifrost (with USB Gen2 upgrade) combo along with a set of LCD-2's
> 
> ...


 
 The Bifrost is sensitive to ground loops from other "things" on your house mains.
 They can be very difficult to find.  Use the best power conditioner you can find.
 I like Furman AC-215.  There's one for both 110 and 220.
 There are other widgets as well.


----------



## john57

Sounds like a couple of things. Move all power bricks like portable HDD if it has one alway from audio equipment. Are you using cable for TV? If so you may have a ground loop from the cable ground that is different from the audio equipment ground. Even if the cable is directly connected to the TV or a cable box that ground loop can still exists even when the Schiit is connected to another unit like your Mac mini. Disconnect the cable from the wall and see if you still hear the hum when nothing is playing of course. If this does not change the hum disconnect the inputs on the Lyr and see if you still hear the hum. We have to narrow down the issue.


----------



## jexby

tim79b said:


> Hi all!
> 
> I recently purchased a Lyr + Bifrost (with USB Gen2 upgrade) combo along with a set of LCD-2's
> 
> ...


 
  
 I won't speculate on your cause, only offer that after days/weeks of trying everything electrical wise, computer wise, USB cable swap outs, this was my fix:
  
post #3527


----------



## tim79b

sceleratus said:


> The Bifrost is sensitive to ground loops from other "things" on your house mains.
> They can be very difficult to find.  Use the best power conditioner you can find.
> I like Furman AC-215.  There's one for both 110 and 220.
> There are other widgets as well.


 
 I'll have to look into this...what are these worth?
  
  


john57 said:


> Sounds like a couple of things. Move all power bricks like portable HDD if it has one alway from audio equipment. Are you using cable for TV? If so you may have a ground loop from the cable ground that is different from the audio equipment ground. Even if the cable is directly connected to the TV or a cable box that ground loop can still exists even when the Schiit is connected to another unit like your Mac mini. Disconnect the cable from the wall and see if you still hear the hum when nothing is playing of course. If this does not change the hum disconnect the inputs on the Lyr and see if you still hear the hum. We have to narrow down the issue.


 
  
 No power bricks near the units - closest one is a good 1.5m away.
  
 No cable TV - I did unplug the aerial connection - no change.
  
 Went through and progressively unplugged all other nearby electronics, no change.
  
 No change with different inputs selected on the Bifrost

 BUT - the hum does disappear when I unplug the inputs to the Lyr whether the bifrost is on or off...
  
 I'm using a monster RCA cable as an interconnect - seems to be quite good quality, and moving the cable around doesn't make any difference, so I'm assuming it's not some sort of transient interference on the cable - Also lifted the Lyr out in front of the TV a bit and no change.
  
 That ground loop through the power is sounding more and more likely...
  
  
  
 Really frustrating...


----------



## john57

tim79b said:


> BUT - the hum does disappear when I unplug the inputs to the Lyr whether the bifrost is on or off...
> 
> I'm using a monster RCA cable as an interconnect - seems to be quite good quality, and moving the cable around doesn't make any difference, so I'm assuming it's not some sort of transient interference on the cable - Also lifted the Lyr out in front of the TV a bit and no change.
> 
> ...


 
 I understand that. It does sounds more like a ground loop all right. Disconnect the power AC plug from the Mini and the DAC and leaving the Lyr with power and with the RCA cables, like the monster still connected , are you still hearing the hum?. If so disconnected the HDMI cable from the mini and the hard drive if connected. The hum should go away and if not check with any interconnected devices you have not listed. Let us know the results.


----------



## tim79b

john57 said:


> I understand that. It does sounds more like a ground loop all right. Disconnect the power AC plug from the Mini and the DAC and leaving the Lyr with power and with the RCA cables, like the monster still connected , are you still hearing the hum?. If so disconnected the HDMI cable from the mini and the hard drive if connected. The hum should go away and if not check with any interconnected devices you have not listed. Let us know the results.


 

 Ok - if I remove the DAC from the wall plug the hum reduces, but is still there...
  
 Shifted the DAC plug from the wall socket to a power board I have for my other stereo components and it stays at the reduced level.
  
 Still annoying, but slightly less so...


----------



## sceleratus

Ground loops are very difficult to track down.
 Whatever you do, don't clip your ground lead or use an adapter plug.
  
 The HUM-X is specifically for ground loops.  The Furman doesn't state that but it the best power box hands down.
 Here's the link to the Hum-X.  It has great Amazon reviews and has worked for several Head-Fi'ers with Ground Loop problems.


----------



## sceleratus

Ground loops is essentially a small amount of voltage that leaks from a device to ground.
 If / when the Bifrost picks this up on the ground.... hmmmmmmm


----------



## sceleratus

This is a great description.  Best I've found so far.
The punch line is:   2 pieces of audio equipment are connected to different grounds.  (Points "C" and "D" in the illustration)  That is bad.
  
 [size=medium]Unfortunately there are other causes....[/size]
  
Ground loops: how they work and how to deal with them.   *A ground-loop is created whenever two or more pieces of mains-powered equipment are connected together, so that mains-derived AC flows through shields and ground conductors, degrading the noise floor of the system. The effect is worst when two or more units are connected through mains ground as well as audio cabling, and this situation is what is normally meant by the term "ground-loop". However, ground currents can also flow in systems that are not galvanically grounded; they are of lower magnitude but can still degrade the noise floor, so this scenario is also considered here.
 The ground currents may either be inherent in the mains supply wiring (see "1: Mains grounding currents") or generated by one or more of the pieces of equipment that make up the audio system.(see "2: Transformer stray magnetic fields" and "3: Transformer stray capacitance")
 Once flowing in the ground wiring, these currents will give rise to voltage-drops that introduce hum and buzzing noises. This may occur either in the audio interconnects, or inside the equipment itself if it is not well-designed. See Section 4.*
*Here I have used the word "ground" for conductors and so on, while "earth" is reserved for the damp crumbly stuff into which copper rods are thrust.*
*HUM INJECTION BY MAINS GROUNDING CURRENTS.
 Fig 1 shows what happens when a so-called "technical ground" like a buried copper rod is attached to a grounding system which is already connected to "mains ground" at the power distribution board. The latter is mandatory both legally and technically, so one might as well accept this and denote as the reference ground. In many cases this "mains ground" is actually the neutral conductor, which is only grounded at the remote transformer substation. AB is the cable from substation to consumer, which serves many houses from connections tapped off along its length. There is substantial current flowing down the N+E conductor, so point B is often 1 Volts rms or more above earth. From B onwards, in the internal house wiring, neutral and ground are always separate. (In the UK, anyway)*
*




*
*Two pieces of audio equipment are connected to this mains wiring at C and D, and joined to each other through an unbalanced cable F-G. Then an ill-advised connection is made to earth at D; the 1V rms is now impressed on the path B-C-D, and substantial current is likely to flow through it, depending on the total resistance of this path. There will be a voltage-drop from C to D, its magnitude depending on what fraction of the total BCDE resistance is made up by the section C-D. The earth wire C-D will be of at least 1.5 sqmm cross-section, and so the extra connection FG down the audio cable is unlikely to reduce the intefering voltage much.
 To get a feel for the magnitudes involved, take a plausible ground current of 1 Amp. The 1.5 sqmm ground conductor will have a resistance of 0.012 Ohms/metre, so if the mains sockets at C and D are one metre apart, the voltage C-D will be 12 mV rms. Almost all of this will appear between F and G, and will be indistinguishable from wanted signal to the input stage of Unit 2, so the hum will be severe, probably only 30 dB below the nominal signal level.*
*The best way to solve this problem is not to create it in the first place. If some ground current is unavoidable then the use of balanced inputs (or ground-cancel outputs- it is not necessary to use both) should give at least 40 dB of rejection at audio frequencies.*
*Fig 1 also shows a third earthing point, which fortunately does not complicate situation. Metal water pipes are bonded to the incoming mains ground for safety reasons, and since they are usually electrically connected to an incoming water supply current flows through B-W in the same way as it does through the copper rod link D-E. This water-pipe current does not however flow through C-D and cannot cause a ground-loop problem. It may however cause the pipes to generate an AC magnetic field which is picked up by other wiring.*


----------



## tim79b

That's a lot of info, and I am honestly not sure I understand it all... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Do you think that a power conditioner will resolve the hum?  and...
  
 Does anyone know where I can pick up a decent one in Sydney??
  
 Thanks!


----------



## john57

tim79b said:


> Ok - if I remove the DAC from the wall plug the hum reduces, but is still there...
> 
> Shifted the DAC plug from the wall socket to a power board I have for my other stereo components and it stays at the reduced level.
> 
> Still annoying, but slightly less so...


 
 One more thing. If I understand your layout disconnect the mini digital signal cable to the DAC, does the hum changes? Are you using optical or coaxial?


----------



## tim79b

I'm actually running the DAC through USB. If I change the input the hum doesnt change...


----------



## sceleratus

The #1 best thing is to find the source of the ground loop and fix it.
 The Hum-X, etc are masks not fixes.


----------



## bearFNF

Agreed, find the source of the hum and fix it, if possible.  I found a ticking sound that came from my laptop charger of all things, but not much I can do about it, other than change sources, which I did for the most listening anyway.


----------



## john57

tim79b said:


> I'm actually running the DAC through USB. If I change the input the hum doesnt change...


 
 I mean to physically disconnect the USB cable from the DAC. We have to get the Mini out of a another possible loop. Changing the input on the front pannel will not do it. Just a bit more troubleshooting may pointpoint the issue.


----------



## sceleratus

go with @john57.....


----------



## gefski

sceleratus said:


> The #1 best thing is to find the source of the ground loop and fix it.
> The Hum-X, etc are masks not fixes.




+1 on this. 

Try free fixes first. Does hum diminish when you touch a component? If so, try a piece of wire between chassis and/or to an absolute ground.


----------



## SoulSyde

I'm not sure if this of any consequence to this discussion but I had a similar issue a couple of years ago with my Bifrost and Asgard and the culprit was a bad ground. I had an electrician at my house for some other work and I asked him to rewire the ground and replace the GFI outlet in my listening room. The end result was the disappearance of my "hum."

Ground loops can be a PITA. Good luck!


----------



## tim79b

john57 said:


> I mean to physically disconnect the USB cable from the DAC. We have to get the Mini out of a another possible loop. Changing the input on the front pannel will not do it. Just a bit more troubleshooting may pointpoint the issue.


 

 Ahh - gotcha
  
 OK - disconnected the USB from the DAC - still humming...
  
 so the only thing that completely kills the hum is unplugging the inputs from the Lyr...
  
 I've found a place about 20 min up the road from work that has a Furman AC210 in stock - will a power conditioner help?
  
 Cheers


----------



## SoulSyde

tim79b said:


> Ahh - gotcha
> 
> OK - disconnected the USB from the DAC - still humming...
> 
> ...




Have you tried setting it up in a different room on a different electrical circuit in the house? Your issue could be limited to that room of the house if in fact it is a ground issue with the outlet.


----------



## tuna47

Did you try different tubes in your lyr


----------



## syvlvr

In my case, yes some conditioning helps. I have a Lyr, which has a distinct hum/buzz that distracts from the sound. I tried a product from MCM Electronics, called a dual channel ground loop isolator. I no longer hear the hum. Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/MCM-50-9040-ISOLATOR-CHANNEL-UNBALANCED/dp/B008I5RQO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384442801&sr=8-1&keywords=mcm+ground+loop
  
 I also use one on my Musical Paradise Mp-301 integrated tube amp for the same reason. To me it seems like tubes are more sensitive to 60hz issues. But I'm no expert.


----------



## joebobbilly

tim79b said:


> Ahh - gotcha
> 
> OK - disconnected the USB from the DAC - still humming...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you tried different interconnects? If unplugging your monster cables removes the hum... perhaps try diff cables?


----------



## ngyu

tim79b said:


> Ahh - gotcha
> 
> OK - disconnected the USB from the DAC - still humming...
> 
> ...


 
 several things to try/consider:
  
 are both the bifrost and lyr on the same outlet/power bar?
 have you tried unplugging everything else (power-wise and signal wise) near the bifrost/lyr?
 have you tried the stack elsewhere in the house?
  
 better to try free solutions than paid ones first =)


----------



## sceleratus

joebobbilly said:


> Have you tried different interconnects? If unplugging your monster cables removes the hum... perhaps try diff cables?


 
 That's a pretty good indicator of a ground loop.  See link F-G in the diagram a few pages back.  Unplugging the cable removes the "loop".  Interconnects "shouldn't' fix a ground loop because all interconnects are conductors, and conductors complete the loop / circuit.
  


ngyu said:


> several things to try/consider:
> 
> are both the bifrost and lyr on the same outlet/power bar?
> have you tried unplugging everything else (power-wise and signal wise) near the bifrost/lyr?
> ...


 
 Free is indeed better and fixing the root cause is best.  There may be another circuit in the house that doesn't have a second ground or stray voltage.
  
 I remember reading a similar thread months ago where someone had other audio devices didn't have a problem, only the Bifrost on that circuit.


----------



## LibraryGuy

On ground loop-style hum; my common culprits have been CCFL light bulbs and cheap dimmer switches.


----------



## sceleratus

libraryguy said:


> On ground loop-style hum; my common culprits have been CCFL light bulbs and cheap dimmer switches.


 
 Now that's good to know !


----------



## john57

libraryguy said:


> On ground loop-style hum; my common culprits have been CCFL light bulbs and cheap dimmer switches.


 
 I did had a severe problem with SCR dimmers in the past. In fact it damaged some of the power conditioning equipment I had at the time. It is more of a buzz sound not as much of a hum. CCFL light bulbs has more of a hum in my experience. What I did was to install a central single AC isolation transformer for all of my video and audio equipment. It was cheaper for me that using a AC double conversion power regenerator device. I am not using the SCR dimmer in the dinning room any more and not on the same circuit as my video and audio equipment.


----------



## sceleratus

john57 said:


> I did had a severe problem with SCR dimmers in the past. In fact it damaged some of the power conditioning equipment I had at the time. It is more of a buzz sound not as much of a hum. CCFL light bulbs has more of a hum in my experience. What I did was to install a central single AC isolation transformer for all of my video and audio equipment. It was cheaper for me that using a AC double conversion power regenerator device. I am not using the SCR dimmer in the dinning room any more and not on the same circuit as my video and audio equipment.


 
 John,
 What's the brand and model of your isolation trans?   I want to keep it in my back pocket.
  
 Thx


----------



## john57

tuna47 said:


> Did you try different tubes in your lyr


 
 Tubes can be sensitive to noise especially the time I lay my cell phone next to the amp. It was a pulsing noise.   However that is not the issue that OP is having. 
 When the OP disconnected the inputs of the lyr the hum was totally gone. That tells me that the RCA cable is part of the ground loop. That happens when the AC grounds of the two equipment in question are at different potentials.  
 By the process of elimination we found that the only way to reduce the hum was to move the power plug of the Bifrost to an outlet that is at a lesser potential to the AC ground of the Lyr. I am not sure if the OP did the best moving the power cord of the Bifrost as close to the same power outlet of the Lyr. I sometimes use a cheater plug or an extra power cord that had the grounding pin cut off in the past as a troubleshooting tool. I would put the cheater on the Bifrost and leave the grounding of the Lyr alone. In fact I have heard Schiit technical support was saying that in another post.  The OP should try one other pair of interconnects between the Bifrost and the Lyr. A cheap pair is fine and I always have an extra one on hand since I have quite a few equipment that uses the same type of cables but I have the feeling that it may not fix the issue. That depends if the monster cable has a shield ground connected to the signal ground on both ends.  Syvlvr mention a dual channel RCA cable ground loop isolator which may work in OP case since it works for Syvlvr. I would make sure that the house grounding scheme is good as it can be and you may need to hire an electrician to do this but may avoid problems in the future. Having your audio and video equipment on the same circuit is a good idea.


----------



## sceleratus

Please add....
 Do Not Clip the Ground or use a cheater plug.  It's dangerous. The cheater plugs were used to facilitate using a NEMA 5-15Plug in older construction with non-polarized 1-15Receptiles (2 prong).  IMO, safety first, I don't think it should be used just for testing either.  The Lyr has several hundred volts under the case and you do not want to become a ground.  You don't know what might be touching the case.
  
 This is an example of 450V of in a tube amp.   While testing my 300B the DMM probe skated...
 The MOSFET's fractured in two.  Several resisters were eviscerated too.


----------



## john57

That why I said the Lyr should always has its AC ground connected
 For Schitt tube products I know this regarding plate voltage for tubes as per Jason at Schiit:
  
 120V in the Valhalla on a 210V rail, 100V in the Lyr on a 200V rail.
  
 I had a custom 6AS7 built amp that one of its tubes arc over and send HV to the headphone and blew it out. I use micro grapers on my DMM only a small tip is exposed. I had my share of skating probes. I have not used cheaper plugs in many years just on old 2 plug outlets no longer in the house.


----------



## john57

sceleratus said:


> John,
> What's the brand and model of your isolation trans?   I want to keep it in my back pocket.
> 
> Thx


 
 The one I am using is a 13amp unit made by Leviton and the model I using is no longer available. Got it new real cheap at $50 and works just fine. Tripp Lite makes some  Isolation Transformers that is easy to find. The problem with Tripp Lite isolation transformers is that they tied the neutral to ground not a complete isolation unless you use their HG models like the IS1800HG or IS1000HG.


----------



## fenderf4i

libraryguy said:


> On ground loop-style hum; my common culprits have been CCFL light bulbs and cheap dimmer switches.


 
  
  
 Would it only hum when the lights were on, or when they were off as well?


----------



## syvlvr

I forget the model of Tripp-Lite isolation transformer, but it didn't work for my with my tube amp. Want to say a 250 something or other. Have to dig it up from amazon. I feel my issues are a 50 year old house with commensurate ground/wiring. Do hope the house I move into toward end of December, which is brand new construction, doesn't have such problems. But my hand MCM will be ready if needed.
  
 I've had various hum/buzz issues with amps over the years. Only of late have I decided it was time to do something about it. I love the silence now! Don't live with the hum/buzz.


----------



## moriez

Heads-up Valhalla owners. I'm selling tubes. Get at me if you're interested.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tim79b said:


> Ahh - gotcha
> 
> OK - disconnected the USB from the DAC - still humming...
> 
> ...


 
  
 The last time I tried making ground loop suggestions, it didn't go over so well. But I'm brave. I'll try this again.
  
 A power conditioner is only going to help eliminate noise on a line that is otherwise checking out good. First you need to check to make sure the line is good.
  
 First thing to do is check the electrical outlet with one of those cheapie plug-in testers you can get from a hardware store.
  
 A mis-wired outlet can cause grief. For example, the black and white wires are reversed, the ground is not hooked up, etc. There are a bunch of conditions listed on the test device above, all should be checked. If anything tests bad, call an electrician to get it fixed. Alternately, you can turn off your house power and check the wiring in the outlet yourself, if you know something about electricity. But since I'm writing this, I'm guessing that's probably not the case. So call an electrician.
  
 Next thing to do: get a voltmeter, set it to measure AC first (then DC), then check to see if there is any voltage between the chassis of the noisy device, and a ground. By a ground, I mean for example, a plumbing fixture in the house. You can also test against the electrical ground in an outlet, if you know what you're doing (but I advise against sticking any sort of probe into an AC outlet unless you are very familiar with electricity). If you measure any voltage at all, call an electrician. You have a wiring problem in your house that requires attention. Do not attempt to fix this yourself.
  
 Where I live, a lot of the homes were built in the mid to late 1950's (about the same vintage as the tubes we like to buy). The standards for wiring back then, are not what they are today. Wiring can break down, insulation can stop insulating, or previous owners of the homes could have done stupid crap with the house wiring. I've gone through and fixed many issues in my own house due to the stupidity of previous owners. I'm amazed that people don't hurt themselves more often with bad wiring.
  
 Once you're convinced that your wiring is ok, and you still have noise, then get a power conditioner.


----------



## LibraryGuy

fenderf4i said:


> Would it only hum when the lights were on, or when they were off as well?


 
 The one in my dining area (apartment) emits a slight glow even when switched off, but doesn't emit any noise from the switch unless it's turned on. So, ymmv, depending on the switch and what circuit it's on.
  
 The wiring in my place is fairly dodgy anyway. When the upstairs neighbor uses the 'facilities' it rattles the wiring enough to cause a popping sound from my speakers.


----------



## vincent215

The Schiit black look bad ass! I want one!!!!


----------



## Alexnova

I wanted to cross post because this thread seems to get more activity. Can anyone advise on my situation below?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/495#post_9977365

Frankly I would like to pull the trigger really soon but before I do so need some input.

Thank you!


----------



## tim79b

umustbkidn said:


> The last time I tried making ground loop suggestions, it didn't go over so well. But I'm brave. I'll try this again.
> 
> A power conditioner is only going to help eliminate noise on a line that is otherwise checking out good. First you need to check to make sure the line is good.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the comprehensive advice. I'll see if I can hunt down a tester today. Also going to try changing out the interconnects to see if there's any change.

After that, power conditioner...

Anyone have any experience with the Monster HDP1750G


----------



## john57

You amy find that kind of Receptacle Tester at your local Walmart like this one
  

  
  
  
http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-3-Prong-Receptacle-Tester/16561511


----------



## tim79b

john57 said:


> You amy find that kind of Receptacle Tester at your local Walmart like this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks John57...

Anyone know where I can get something similar in Australia? Sydney, to be exact...


----------



## tim79b

tim79b said:


> Thanks for the comprehensive advice. I'll see if I can hunt down a tester today. Also going to try changing out the interconnects to see if there's any change.
> 
> After that, power conditioner...
> 
> Anyone have any experience with the Monster HDP1750G


 

 OK - I've changed the interconnects - no difference - even ran the left channel through one and the right through another and there was no discernible difference in level - given that they were widely differing in quality, I'm guessing I can cross those off as a problem...
  
 didn;t get a chance to grab a tester today, but I might do that first thing tomorrow, then if that confirms the socket is ok, I'm off to get a power conditioner...


----------



## fenderf4i

Hmmmmm. The Valhalla/Lyr/Bifrost are available in black.


----------



## ngyu

fenderf4i said:


> Hmmmmm. The Valhalla/Lyr/Bifrost are available in black.


 
 OMGOSH L:KSDJL:KSJDFOIASHDKL:JSDGL:JK~~~~~~~~~!!!!!!!! that looks freaking sexy. AND the Bifrost......!!


----------



## Mattjh90

Thinking about getting a pair of dt990 600ohm 
  
 i have asgard 2. Is lyr worth getting?


----------



## ab initio

fenderf4i said:


> Hmmmmm. The Valhalla/Lyr/Bifrost are available in black.


 
 Awesome! May help with keeping the amps cooler...


----------



## willard

i bought a lyr amp early this year to power my new audeze headphones. schiit was one of the audeze rep recommendations. i liked the sound, but when i plugged my old standards into the lyr, a sennheiser hd595, these sounded like schit, no pun intended. they only sounded bad in the lyr. i had two audiophile friends over who confirmed it. jason of schiit was very nice, accepting the return, but after testing it, said he could find nothing wrong with the unit, and was at a loss to explain why the 595's would act that way in only the lyr. there was some sort of strange interaction between them.
much as i liked the amp, company, and owner, i am leery of another schiit product. sad too, as so many others really like the brand. would be very interested in any thoughts on why this happened. impedances of both headphones are close, and no other sources caused this difference.


----------



## jaywillin

willard said:


> i bought a lyr amp early this year to power my new audeze headphones. schiit was one of the audeze rep recommendations. i liked the sound, but when i plugged my old standards into the lyr, a sennheiser hd595, these sounded like schit, no pun intended. they only sounded bad in the lyr. i had two audiophile friends over who confirmed it. jason of schiit was very nice, accepting the return, but after testing it, said he could find nothing wrong with the unit, and was at a loss to explain why the 595's would act that way in only the lyr. there was some sort of strange interaction between them.
> much as i liked the amp, company, and owner, i am leery of another schiit product. sad too, as so many others really like the brand. would be very interested in any thoughts on why this happened. impedances of both headphones are close, and no other sources caused this difference.


 

 wow, very strange, while i have experience with the 595, i have listened to the 600, and 650 with the lyr,
 both sounded really good, especially the the 600


----------



## Alexnova

Why would you use a 595 on a Lyr outside of testing it? Doesn't require much power to drive them. I'd be worried about damanging the drivers with that much power.

I have the 595s but I think they are a terrible headphone. Its crazy but my 590s were better, more so for gaming.


----------



## sceleratus

If anyone is on the fence about moving to a Gungnir. Do it.  A beautiful sound.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

alexnova said:


> I'd be worried about damanging the drivers with that much power.


 
  
 As long as your listening at the same volume as you would on any other amp they would be fine...


----------



## SoulSyde

sceleratus said:


> If anyone is on the fence about moving to a Gungnir. Do it.  A beautiful sound.


 
  
 Plus it works without having to be plugged-in. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Beautiful setup you have there!


----------



## FooMojo

Brand new Bifrost / Lyr combo currently connected to a PC via TOSLINK.  I've been experimenting with A/B comparisons listening to original CD rips in 16b/44.1K WMAL and FLAC, and the same songs in HD format 24b/96k and 24b/192k FLAC.  I'm also doing some A/B headphone comparisons between my AKG 702 Anni and Sennheiser HD650s.
  
 Absolutely LOVE the Bifrost/Lyr combo... it has opened a whole new world as far as digital HD audio is concerned.
  
 I've posted some dirty details over at getmojo.org if you are interested.


----------



## tuna47

I also love the lyr bifrost urber combo with the He 500


----------



## tim79b

Hey guys/girls
  
 Still having problems with the hum on the Bifrost/Lyr combo.  A couple of updates...
  
 - Checked the wall sockets with a receptacle tester - no issues.
 - Plugged the gear into different wall sockets - no difference.
 - Tried different interconnects - No difference.
  
 A couple of other things...
  - Tried my iPod hooked directly to the Lyr - no hum
  - Hum remains in Lyr as long as it is connected to the Bifrost, even when the Bifrost is switched off at the power
  - Hum stops if the Bifrost is unplugged from the wall.
  
 Any thoughts?  I think the last item may be quite a telling element - appears that the problem must be in the Bifrost...


----------



## FooMojo

Ugh...  could be you are picking up some bleed from the 60Hz AC to DC stage in the Bifrost power supply.  This is a complete guess, but it fits your symptoms.
  
 Shielding or bypass cap problem?  In any case, I think you have definitely narrowed it down to the Bifrost.  Have you contacted Schiit customer support?


----------



## sceleratus

tim79b said:


> Hey guys/girls
> 
> Still having problems with the hum on the Bifrost/Lyr combo.  A couple of updates...
> 
> ...


 
 Classic ground loop.
 What put it over the top for me is the hum remains when the Bifrost is powered off but connected to the Lyr.
 The interconnect "completes the loop".
 There are likely two mains grounds.  Or 2 different "earthed" things,  Copper Bar, pipes attached to the house wiring.  The Bifrost is sensitive to the very very low voltage contaminating one of the grounds.
 The previous diagram shows this.   Just give it a look for a bit and look at the legend that identifies the parts and paths.
  
 Super hard to trace down.  Might have a look in the bowels of your house at plumbing ties to ground.  I may be wrong,here.... Plumbing should have it's own path to ground and not tied into the electrical ground.   "Ground" is literally a solid copper stake driven a meter or so into the "earth / the ground" and tied to your main power panel.   If there's another path to "earth" on your house wiring there's your loop.  The rub is it's picking up stray voltage from an appliance, connection, whatever.   Not enough to short anything but sensitive audio gear can't take it.
  
 If you or an electrician can't find it, then try a Hum-X type of device.   It's worth trying to fix rather than bandaid....  IMO


----------



## cswann1

Would a power conditioner help in this case?


----------



## tim79b

sceleratus said:


> Classic ground loop.
> What put it over the top for me is the hum remains when the Bifrost is powered off but connected to the Lyr.
> The interconnect "completes the loop".
> There are likely two mains grounds.  Or 2 different "earthed" things,  Copper Bar, pipes attached to the house wiring.  The Bifrost is sensitive to the very very low voltage contaminating one of the grounds.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info...
  
 Killer is that I'm in an apartment block, so trying to get the cause fixed will be near to impossible....
  
 Hum-x here I come I guess...


----------



## sceleratus

tim79b said:


> Thanks for the info...
> 
> Killer is that I'm in an apartment block, so trying to get the cause fixed will be near to impossible....
> 
> Hum-x here I come I guess...


 
 Dang.  I will keep my fingers crossed.


----------



## jexby

tim79b said:


> Hey guys/girls
> 
> Still having problems with the hum on the Bifrost/Lyr combo.  A couple of updates...
> 
> ...


 
  
 all of my same equipment AND issues.  stops once RCA is disconnected from Lyr and BiFrost unplugged from wall.
 I reported long ago-  fixed with the JK Audio Pureformer in-between my RCA interconnects.  hum. gone.
 YMMV as it may also with the Hum-X.
  
 as noble and well-meaning advice it is to "fix the source" instead of the above bandaids, the time and cost for such often is frustrating and prohibitive.
 and my JK Audio will "move with me" if I move the equipment to an office or other location.


----------



## sceleratus

The JK Audio Pureformer looks like a good solution.  That is where the loop is.
 Seems safer than using something on the mains side too.  Both boxes remain grounded, but not linked.


----------



## sceleratus

Looked at the specs for JK Audio Pureformer.
 The key words "Isolation Transformer"  Bingo !!
  
 I've been working this weekend installing Jensen line input transformers in my amp.  SE to Diff.


----------



## john57

Since my Lyra is DC coupled this device mention will also block DC at the Lyr inputs as well. just down .1dB at 20Hz Insertion Loss: 0.8 dB
  
 P.S. The trouble with Hum-X is that they are using diodes to lift the ground and will not work if there is a leakage between the power and chassis more likely to happen with tube amps. Also if you have a setup with many devices the Hum-X may not be as effective. That why I use a central AC isolation transformer.


----------



## syvlvr

I do like the sound, but am kind of on the fence, as I'm thinking of getting an Oppo BDP-105 which has the Sabre dac...let's me get much or maybe the same performance in a multi-use device. I could sell my BDP-103, Gungnir, and Squeezebox, and actually be slightly ahead. Decisions...
  
 Quote:


sceleratus said:


> If anyone is on the fence about moving to a Gungnir. Do it.  A beautiful sound.


----------



## syvlvr

I am using a similar device, couldn't be happier, my tube amp used to drive me crazy with buzz.  I didn't get any satisfaction using a Tripp Lite IS500 Isolation Transformer. It did nothing for the ground loop I have at my place.
  
 If you use Amazon, you can return things, like I did with the above-mentioned Isolation Transformer. Give it a shot.
  
 Quote:


john57 said:


> Since my Lyra is DC coupled this device mention will also block DC at the Lyr inputs as well. just down .1dB at 20Hz Insertion Loss: 0.8 dB
> 
> P.S. The trouble with Hum-X is that they are using diodes to lift the ground and will not work if there is a leakage between the power and chassis more likely to happen with tube amps. Also if you have a setup with many devices the Hum-X may not be as effective. That why I use a central AC isolation transformer.


----------



## pdrm360

mattjh90 said:


> Thinking about getting a pair of dt990 600ohm
> 
> i have asgard 2. Is lyr worth getting?


 
 It was worth to me.


----------



## john57

The Lyr is a good hybrid amp and response readily to different tubes properties. Unlike some cheaper hybrid amps the Lyr uses the tubes as an actual gain stage not as a buffer. You can use the line outputs on the back which is also feed by the tubes gain stage for active powered speaker monitors if you like. My Lyr is currently driving the JBL LSR305.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I recently discovered that the lyr transfers out put stage of the tubes to powered speakers. I love running my speaker setup through the lyr now.


----------



## tuna47

I upgraded from asgard 2 and love the lyr just so smooth and powerful you need to get nice tubes to reach potential


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> ^^ I recently discovered that the lyr transfers out put stage of the tubes to powered speakers. I love running my speaker setup through the lyr now.


 

 oh that's one of the best things dude !!  my ps1's love it !!


----------



## jaywillin

people always said i was full of schiit !!
 can i keep it all ??


----------



## sceleratus

john57 said:


> Since my Lyra is DC coupled this device mention will also block DC at the Lyr inputs as well. just down .1dB at 20Hz Insertion Loss: 0.8 dB
> 
> P.S. The trouble with Hum-X is that they are using diodes to lift the ground and will not work if there is a leakage between the power and chassis more likely to happen with tube amps. Also if you have a setup with many devices the Hum-X may not be as effective. That why I use a central AC isolation transformer.


 
 I vaguely recalled  your post with an alternative to Hum-X but that was it.  I've bookmarked the Pureformer.   Clearly in an apartment you won't fix the problem and in a house it a small probability you are going to easily find it.
  
 The problem lies in PCB architecture that busses the grounds.  It's less likely you'll have the problem with an old school star topology with home run grounds.  Not positive here, but I don't think there would be a problem if the Bifrost output interface grounds went strait to mains ground.  Using isolation transformers is the way to go.  I am Not an Engineer.


----------



## zackzack

zantetsuken said:


> Thanks for that guys just to add though I'm using a USB input, not SPDIF stream, and the click does not come from the chassis but from the speakers themselves occasionally, as though they were being fed a higher signal intermittently (its not common, but just thought I should check that it's not a fault or anything). It seems that the clicks occur randomly, in the middle of a song rather than between songs.


 
  
 I had a problem with pops & cracks with my Bifrost/Asgard 2. I thought it was the chassis, interference from cables, power lines, grid, power socket, bad USB controller in Mac Mini, and I was haggling Schiit Audio for replacement. Last thing I did was replace the USB cable with an el cheap one I got from a local store, and you know what, the pops & cracks are gone. The old USB cable as it turned out came with a Canon printer I bought 7 years ago. The best $8 upgrade I ever done


----------



## Tuco1965

I too just got rid of crackle noise I was getting while using usb with my Bifrost.  I tried everything, changed ports, changed power outlets, changed cables, you name it.  It just happened that my old Dell laptop's screen was dying. BTW it was running Vista.  Bought a new Vaio with Windows 8 and all is great now.


----------



## noobandroid

mine is one minor problem on the magni with RE-400, whole lots of static, perhaps the RE400 is just too much for magni?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Maybe it's that the magni is too much for the re400.


----------



## soeasyseook

Being both my first dedicated Dac and headphone amp, I am blown away by the sound. I'll have to start tube rolling soon too!


----------



## Tuco1965

Out of curiosity does anyone know the output specs are for the preamp output on the Lyr are?  I'm also curious as to the volume setting used on the lyr when outputting to something like a receiver.  I just hooked up my outputs and find 12 o'clock to be fairly good with the bifrost usb as the source.


----------



## campj

Does anyone have experience with pairing the Asgard 2 with Fostex TH600? It seems like everyone who has these headphones reccomends some fancy expensive amps, but nobody can comment on how it sounds with A2. It's a little frustrating.


----------



## Defiant00

campj said:


> Does anyone have experience with pairing the Asgard 2 with Fostex TH600? It seems like everyone who has these headphones reccomends some fancy expensive amps, but nobody can comment on how it sounds with A2. It's a little frustrating.


 
  
 While not exactly the same, the A2 seemed fine with the D7000 (or maybe it was D5000) that I tried at a meet. They weren't my cans so I can't give you any super detailed information, but it seemed like a good pairing if you like their sound sig.


----------



## SoulSyde

I figured I would reach out to the collective genius that is Head-Fi before I bug Schiit with another question.
  
 I received my Valhalla a couple of days ago and I really like it in addition to my Asgard.  My setup is as follows:
 iMac to Bifrost via USB.
 RCA splitter to Asgard and Valhalla.
 All devices share the same ground.
  
 I do notice that I have a very slight ground loop hum but it's only noticeable when pushing both volume pots past 12 o'clock, which is far beyond safe listening.  With normal listening it is unnoticeable, however this is not my issue.
  
 The issue I am having is that the right channel of the Valhalla has a random and subtle noise.  It sounds like a faint but dull crackle or even static.  It may persist for 2-3 seconds and then go away for 5-10 seconds only to come back again.  This is not the same sound as the higher-pitched crackle of the tubes warming up or cooling down.  It exists whether the unit has any input connections or not.  I also took out both sets of tubes and switched the right and left channels and it still exists solely in the right channel.  I do not hear any of these noises with my Asgard.  Lastly, I do notice it with all of my headphones.
  
 Any thoughts on what the culprit may be?  It's obviously not a bad tube.  Could it be RF pollution?  Could it be a bad transistor or an overly sensitive item that is picking up DC current from my ground, but only manifesting itself in the right channel?


----------



## Uchiya

Woot, they have the Lyr/Bifrost in black!  Just ordered.


----------



## Barry S

uchiya said:


> Woot, they have the Lyr/Bifrost in black!  Just ordered.


 

 They look surprisingly good in black--enjoy!


----------



## SoulSyde

soulsyde said:


> I figured I would reach out to the collective genius that is Head-Fi before I bug Schiit with another question.


 
  
 Due to the overwhelming response 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I shot an e-mail to Schiit to see what they think.


----------



## Barry S

soulsyde said:


> Due to the overwhelming response
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 RF interference and ground loops are the most common problems with Schiit, but the fact you only have issues in one channel, sounds like the amp may have a problem.


----------



## SoulSyde

barry s said:


> RF interference and ground loops are the most common problems with Schiit, *but the fact you only have issues in one channel, sounds like the amp may have a problem.*


 
  
 That's what I thought.  I'll await their response and see if they can offer and other debugging techniques before I ship it back.


----------



## UmustBKidn

soulsyde said:


> I figured I would reach out to the collective genius that is Head-Fi before I bug Schiit with another question.
> 
> I received my Valhalla a couple of days ago and I really like it in addition to my Asgard.  My setup is as follows:
> iMac to Bifrost via USB.
> ...


 
  
 Based on what you describe, you have isolated the issue to the amp itself. You have eliminated all the other possibilities. If it were my amp, I'd email Schiit and describe what you did, and request an RMA.


----------



## SoulSyde

umustbkidn said:


> Based on what you describe, you have isolated the issue to the amp itself. You have eliminated all the other possibilities. If it were my amp, I'd email Schiit and describe what you did, and request an RMA.


 
  
 I purchased it from Audio Advisor (via Amazon) so I requested a return.  I'm a little bummed, but looking forward to getting a replacement.


----------



## olddtfan

Great News people the VALI is up on Schitts website and ready to order.


----------



## z7nz

I'm thinking of getting a schiit stack. Is there a way to connect my android smartphone -> modi -> magni -> headphone? I'm not sure if the mini USB port would work in this case


----------



## Defiant00

z7nz said:


> I'm thinking of getting a schiit stack. Is there a way to connect my android smartphone -> modi -> magni -> headphone? I'm not sure if the mini USB port would work in this case


 
  
 Depends on your phone, apparently a few more recent ones have worked that way.


----------



## czrtly

Which way to go...?

Just finished reading the whole Schiit Thread... I have some AKG K712 HP (62 Ohms, 105dB SPL/V per their site), almost all of my mussic is classical from pre-barroque voice only to romantic composers with lots of dynamics and some contemporary stuff... Sometimes some indy thrown in. I have a limited budget and right now I could either :
a) Buy a Lyr/Modi 
b) A Vali/Bifrost Uber with USB2
Eventually I would get the Lyr/Bf and Modi/Vali combos complete but not right now... What would be the best choise for now? Is the Lyr apropriate for de k712? I have some hope as I've seen some users have Q701's or so... or should I go for the A2? I like that the Lyr could drive some other headphones in the future and the pre-out, also the tunning via tube rolling, don't know if it will fit this cans; which are going to be there for quite some time...
Hope i can get some help deciding!

Antonio


----------



## pdrm360

czrtly said:


> Which way to go...?
> 
> Just finished reading the whole Schiit Thread... I have some AKG K712 HP (62 Ohms, 105dB SPL/V per their site), almost all of my mussic is classical from pre-barroque voice only to romantic composers with lots of dynamics and some contemporary stuff... Sometimes some indy thrown in. I have a limited budget and right now I could either :
> a) Buy a Lyr/Modi
> ...


 
  
 I don't know about the Vali but I prefer Bifrost-Uber/Magni over Modi/Asgard 2. I think the Lyr is too much for K712.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

i had the lyr when i had a pair k701s(yes the ones on the dog) and there were a few tube combos that sounded great with them. i havent followed the k712 thread to know how different they are from the k70x versions but my vote goes to the lyr/modi


----------



## NinjaHamster

If they're anything like the K701, you hit 'em with a big stick and they go faster ... the Lyr worked amazingly well with them ... brought out a whole new level of bass and body.


----------



## UmustBKidn

czrtly said:


> Which way to go...?
> 
> Just finished reading the whole Schiit Thread... I have some AKG K712 HP (62 Ohms, 105dB SPL/V per their site), almost all of my mussic is classical from pre-barroque voice only to romantic composers with lots of dynamics and some contemporary stuff... Sometimes some indy thrown in. I have a limited budget and right now I could either :
> a) Buy a Lyr/Modi
> ...


 
  
 Well, honestly, I like to err on the conservative side. So if it were me, I'd start out with the least expensive "good" setup: The Magni/Modi stack. Or if you prefer tubes, the Vali/Modi stack. That way you're not out a ton of money, while you decide what you like and can afford.
  
 Your suggested combinations of low priced X with high priced Y don't seem to make sense. In other words, stick with two low priced items as I suggested above, instead of mixing an expensive DAC with a cheap amp, or a cheap DAC with an expensive amp. If you want to spend the money, go big to start with. If you're frugal like me, start out small and work your way up.
  
 Honestly, the lowest priced Schiit gear is so damn good, that you really can't go wrong. The next rung up the ladder is only a marginal improvement (if we are to believe all that's posted here).


----------



## noobandroid

czrtly said:


> Which way to go...?
> 
> Just finished reading the whole Schiit Thread... I have some AKG K712 HP (62 Ohms, 105dB SPL/V per their site), almost all of my mussic is classical from pre-barroque voice only to romantic composers with lots of dynamics and some contemporary stuff... Sometimes some indy thrown in. I have a limited budget and right now I could either :
> a) Buy a Lyr/Modi
> ...


 
 I'm on DACPost LX + Magni, with Q701 it seems like a splendid setup that is small


----------



## czrtly

Apreciate the input, maybe if I clarify a bit more of my situation it would help? I already have a good record/cd collection, also have a nice speaker setup with a decent amp (Marantz), SACD and I'm interested in some Channel Records DSD... Due to local circummstances I had to dismount the equipment and "shelve it", so I have a lot of mussic I can't play any more... The logic in getting the lyr is that I can listen to my mussic now and maybe later use it as pre-amp in the marantz, the Bifrost would be usefull also as I'm ripping my CD's to flac. Also I travel so it would be nice having good quality audio on the move... For now I need a solution that let me play my mussic so if I go for the Bifrost/Magni-Vali I would be out of the lyr for a couple of months, but I could listen my mussic again! Also the Lyr/Modi would serve to this end. I'm interested in the statement componets, and trying the lyr/bifrost/modi/Magni-Vali would be a good way to know it this statement gear would be what I want..
So for now, what would be best? having a great DAC with a good amp, or a great amp with a good DAC? I read the reviews at Schiit and at least 3 of them used K70x to test the Lyr, no mention to floor noice or something out of the ordinary, also some users around here use Lyr with said headphones it seems it can work, besides later I could try some other HP (doubt it, so much mussic to buy also..!). 

Antonio


----------



## Saraguie

umustbkidn said:


> Well, honestly, I like to err on the conservative side. So if it were me, I'd start out with the least expensive "good" setup: The Magni/Modi stack. Or if you prefer tubes, the Vali/Modi stack. That way you're not out a ton of money, while you decide what you like and can afford.
> 
> Your suggested combinations of low priced X with high priced Y don't seem to make sense. *In other words, stick with two low priced items as I suggested above*, instead of mixing an expensive DAC with a cheap amp, or a cheap DAC with an expensive amp. If you want to spend the money, go big to start with. If you're frugal like me, start out small and work your way up.
> 
> Honestly, the lowest priced Schiit gear is so damn good, that you really can't go wrong. The next rung up the ladder is only a marginal improvement (if we are to believe all that's posted here).


 
 U, have you heard any DAC and AMP in combo? I am wondering why you can recommend something which you have not heard?
 In my own experience I hooked up a $3999 DAC, street price about $2500, to a $399. 8 year old portable IEM amp, and thought I was in audio heaven.  When I finally hooked the MOJO in place of that little amp, my system went to the next level.  There are very good reasons why to get a good, quality DAC and not stick to low priced ones which I assume you means $250 and below. IMO, the DAC is more important than the amp.


----------



## joebobbilly

saraguie said:


> U, have you heard any DAC and AMP in combo? I am wondering why you can recommend something which you have not heard?
> In my own experience I hooked up a $3999 DAC, street price about $2500, to a $399. 8 year old portable IEM amp, and thought I was in audio heaven.  When I finally hooked the MOJO in place of that little amp, my system went to the next level.  There are very good reasons why to get a good, quality DAC and not stick to low priced ones which I assume you means $250 and below. IMO, the DAC is more important than the amp.


 

 +1 on DAC priority.


----------



## noobandroid

still thinking should i get the modi when i have a dacport LX? stacking it up seems more badass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 edit: i think they are the same AKM4396 DAC chip, so might be different in implementation method only


----------



## UmustBKidn

saraguie said:


> U, have you heard any DAC and AMP in combo? I am wondering why you can recommend something which you have not heard?
> In my own experience I hooked up a $3999 DAC, street price about $2500, to a $399. 8 year old portable IEM amp, and thought I was in audio heaven.  When I finally hooked the MOJO in place of that little amp, my system went to the next level.  There are very good reasons why to get a good, quality DAC and not stick to low priced ones which I assume you means $250 and below. IMO, the DAC is more important than the amp.


 
  
 Any DAC and AMP? Yes. A couple of them, to be precise. Here's my own little comparison of the gear I own.
  
 Why can I recommend something I haven't heard? Or perhaps not recommend it? The key phrase in *czrtly*'s post was *"I have a limited budget"*. That's what I noticed. Being the frugal type myself, when presented with indecision, I tend to choose to risk less money, rather than more.
  
 S/he asked, "which way to go?" I offered my opinion. I thought that's what we're here to do.
   
If the person had an unlimited budget, then the question would not have included the statement "I have a limited budget". Then they have a different decision, which is not impeded by cost. I don't know if I would have responded to that post. But that's a pointless hypothetical argument.

  
 We're also talking about a new member, someone with 2 or 3 posts under their belt. I think it would be rather outrageous to recommend that some new member on a budget spend thousands of dollars on audio gear. What if this person doesn't have the hearing to distinguish the difference between a Modi and a Bifrost? You may take that for granted, but I don't. I recommended beginners gear to a beginner. I see nothing wrong with that.
  
 You want to berate me for having an opinion and expressing it? *You have no right to revoke my freedom of speech.* The person to whom my opinion was directed, is also entirely free to read it, ignore it, or follow some or all of it. Or none of it. They are also free to read or ignore yours. I won't rob this person of that decision.


----------



## UmustBKidn

joebobbilly said:


> +1 on DAC priority.


 

  -1 for recommending way too much gear to a beginner, and piling on without offering any pertinent information.


----------



## joebobbilly

umustbkidn said:


> -1 for recommending way too much gear to a beginner, and piling on without offering any pertinent information.


 
  
 Dude... I'm just saying in my personal opinion, I would prioritize DAC over an amp. Your comment here is neither welcome, nor constructive to the cause. Please refrain from posting such things if all you're doing is responding in anger to something another member said. No need to carry it over to attack me.
  
 Let's keep this forum civil people?


----------



## sceleratus

Let's do the noble thing and everyone walk away.  (As hard as it may be)


----------



## NinjaHamster

sceleratus said:


> Let's do the noble thing and everyone walk away.  (As hard as it may be)


 
 From a damsel in distress ??


----------



## awsanderson

Does my gungnir output a balanced and unbalanced signal at the same time?
 I was wondering because I want to hook it up to a preamp and a headphone amp at the same time


----------



## sceleratus

awsanderson said:


> Does my gungnir output a balanced and unbalanced signal at the same time?
> I was wondering because I want to hook it up to a preamp and a headphone amp at the same time




Yup


----------



## awsanderson

thanks


----------



## bearFNF

czrtly said:


> Which way to go...?
> 
> Just finished reading the whole Schiit Thread... I have some AKG K712 HP (62 Ohms, 105dB SPL/V per their site), almost all of my mussic is classical from pre-barroque voice only to romantic composers with lots of dynamics and some contemporary stuff... Sometimes some indy thrown in. I have a limited budget and right now I could either :
> a) Buy a Lyr/Modi
> ...


 
 Having heard all the gear you listed...
 If it was me I would go for the Vali/uberfrost, the Vali is very impressive.  It gets you a good setup that will sound vey good and be flexible enough to try different input methods down the road.  As you said you would eventually get the other gear but you may find the Vali is as far as you need to go.


----------



## pdrm360

bearfnf said:


> Having heard all the gear you listed...
> If it was me I would go for the Vali/uberfrost, the Vali is very impressive.  It gets you a good setup that will sound vey good and be flexible enough to try different input methods down the road.  As you said you would eventually get the other gear but you may find the Vali is as far as you need to go.


 
 +1


----------



## uncola

One vote for putting the money into the amp instead of the dac.  Get that lyr first


----------



## markm1

sceleratus said:


> Let's do the noble thing and everyone walk away.  (As hard as it may be)


 
 As someone who has been on this site for a year-my advice to any newcomers, is caveat emptor. Approach things with a healthy dose of skepticism. A little like dealing with car salespeople.
  
 I've learned a lot and think this website is a terrific resource. Headfi  is a valuable resource, and opportunity to "talk shop" and learn. The meets are terrific to check out.
  
 But take any one statement with a grain of salt. If you like a product, check out reviews on this site and also do some research away from Headfi. Like anything on the internet, you can get amazing advice, but just know that any of can recommend anything we want and there is know our motives and interests. There is no  real filter and no way vet any of us.
  
 Me included


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> As someone who has been on this site for a year-my advice to any newcomers, is caveat emptor. Approach things with a healthy dose of skepticism. A little like dealing with car salespeople.
> 
> I've learned a lot and think this website is a terrific resource. Headfi  is a valuable resource, and opportunity to "talk shop" and learn. The meets are terrific to check out.
> 
> ...


 

 i thought if it was on the internet it had to true ???


----------



## czrtly

Thanks all for your replys, I don't post a lot mainly because I mostly read trhough the threads, as a reference for any one else intrested in more opinions DAC vs. amp the A2 thread has also a lot of opinnions.
I apreacite the frugal aproach, and also I can see why some people recomend DAc and others Amp. reading the threads lets you kind of know the board member line of thought. As reference I have only spekers and have seen them do the "disapearing trick" also know that you ned to work in your room and have good sources, etc... And live music, every weekend for at least.. a lot of years! Trying to get the closest I can to that with the headphones.
Also done my homework, I evaluated a lot (Woo, LD, HFM, Fiio, etc) of equipment, from reviews, post etc... the hard work is understanding what people means and how to correlate opinnions with my own subjective perception.
Not having the means to actualy hear before buying the gear makes this forums a great resource, if you can take the right info from what is posted. For now I will go for uberbifrost/vali, the next buy will be the Lyr and next a modi, that way I have all the gear I should need for now and buy more mussic! 
My sincere thanks to everyone that give a thought in my question and I apreciate your resposes!
best regards,

Antonio


----------



## markm1

jaywillin said:


> i thought if it was on the internet it had to true ???


 
 One caveat. If jay says it's true-he's legit.
  
 Seriously Jay is a great guy. He sent me an extra amp he had just to see how good it sounded for myself.
  
 You can trust him.


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> One caveat. If jay says it's true-he's legit.
> 
> Seriously Jay is a great guy. He sent me an extra amp he had just to see how good it sounded for myself.
> 
> You can trust him.


 

 you're too kind !! lol
 if anyone is to believe anything i say, let it be this : "this(head-fi)  ain't life and death, its fun !! " oh, and "if you like it, then its good" i stole that one from somebody else lol


----------



## HiFi1972

uncola said:


> One vote for putting the money into the amp instead of the dac.  Get that lyr first


 

 A DAC upgrade (assuming the upgrade is from a less-accurate cheap DAC) will give you accurate conversion, which you can then amplify (cleanly or add coloration). My suggestions for upgrading playback systems are:
  
 Power Conditioning (get rid of noise problems that might originate from there)
 DAC (get the most accurate translation from the 0's and 1's)
 Amplifier (once you have a clean signal and excellent conversion, you can then go nuts and add amps according to "taste")
 Headphones/Speakers


----------



## Saraguie

hifi1972 said:


> A DAC upgrade (assuming the upgrade is from a less-accurate cheap DAC) will give you accurate conversion, which you can then amplify (cleanly or add coloration). My suggestions for upgrading playback systems are:
> 
> Power Conditioning (get rid of noise problems that might originate from there)
> DAC (get the most accurate translation from the 0's and 1's)
> ...


 
 Respectfully disagree. Headphones/speaker, and a clean/adequate (enough 0s & 1s) copy of the recording is numero uno.


----------



## HiFi1972

saraguie said:


> Respectfully disagree. Headphones/speaker, and a clean/adequate (enough 0s & 1s) copy of the recording is numero uno.


 

 Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. I offered mine because I do post production audio for a living and have been working professionally with audio since before the digital age (since the late 80's, back when everyone was using magnetic tape to record). I often help my clients achieve optimal playback, and these are people who have spent years seeking the most accurate/transparent response from their production and recording systems. When they've asked me how they can improve accuracy in monitoring, we start by conditioning their power supply and move up from there.
  
 Often times people don't realize how much of an improvement can come from the upgrades I mentioned above and can only speak from personal observations made from my own systems, and feedback from my clients after they've done it themselves (usually translates to better mixes that eventually I get to work on) so if that helps anyone else who is also looking to improve the accuracy of their playback systems, great (if not, please be content with what you're doing and "carry on").


----------



## Traum

HiFi1972,

I'd say there are 2 things involved here:

1) Conceptually, I agree with your approach to start straight from the source.
2) The biggest improvement will always come from upgrading the weakest link in the chain.

In your case, I think you're making the suggestions you did because the folks you work with probably already has some relatively decent headphones to start, so the DAC might be the weaker link. But for a lot of us, we may or may not be working with something that is deemed decent enough. Or, a lot of us might be balancing the 2 above ideas, both of which have huge merits, in order to get the best sound.


----------



## sceleratus

czrtly said:


> ......I have only spekers and have seen them do the "disapearing trick"..........  For now I will go for uberbifrost/vali, the next buy will be the Lyr and next a modi, that way I have all the gear I should need for now and buy more mussic!
> Antonio


 
 Antinio,
 You wrote that you only have speakers.    My guess is that they are 8 ohm.
  
 Here are the Vali's output specifications from the Schiit Web Site:
*Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 650mW RMS per channel*
*Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 550mW RMS per channel*
*Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 220mW RMS per channel*
*Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 115mW RMS per channel*
 
This amp is made for headphones, not speakers.
 
 EDIT:  I might not be understanding this...
 Also, there are several vendors that offer 30 day trial periods for gear.
 Audio Advisors has Schiit.  Headroom might be another place to look.


----------



## czrtly

Hi sceleratus, yes I do have some speakers but at present it's not just possible to use them (along with the full gear) so I'm building a HP system... trial periods are not really viable as I don't live in the USA, so I have to make some bets... Most of my music are good classical recordings, my choice of headphones (for now) are the AKG712. Whatever I end up getting should be something to keep, don't know any one interested in headphones and very few in good audio around here.
I have good mussic, a good source and I think some good headphones, so I lack an amp and a DAC... with the Bifrost I can use my SACD player (even as redbook cd), all my riped cd's and 24/96 tracks I'm buying; for a couple of months the amp will be restricted but I think a lyr can serve me well when I'm able to buy it; if conditions get better and I can get my gear out the lyr can work as a pre-amp. Having the Vali-magni/modi/ will be nice, they can go to the office or travel with my laptop. Sorry for not being clear enough!


Antonio


----------



## jaywillin

i just noticed the gungnir has two pair of unbalanced outputs, for two amps ?


----------



## mhamel

jaywillin said:


> i just noticed the gungnir has two pair of unbalanced outputs, for two amps ?


 
  
 You can use the balanced outputs and both of the single-ended outputs simultaneously with the Gungnir.


----------



## jaywillin

mhamel said:


> You can use the balanced outputs and both of the single-ended outputs simultaneously with the Gungnir.


 

 i'm talking about there being two pair of single ended outs, in addition to the balanced


----------



## mhamel

jaywillin said:


> i'm talking about there being two pair of single ended outs, in addition to the balanced


 
  
 Yes... me, too.  You can run the balanced out to one amp and each of the pairs of single ended outs to other amps.
  
 I have the balanced out on mine going to my main preamp, one of the s/e outputs to my Lyr and the other to a Vali.


----------



## jaywillin

mhamel said:


> Yes... me, too.  You can run the balanced out to one amp and each of the pairs of single ended outs to other amps.
> 
> I have the balanced out on mine going to my main preamp, one of the s/e outputs to my Lyr and the other to a Vali.


 

 hell i gotta get me one  lol
 and then get a mjo,
 i could be set for the lcd's and go balanced, and have my little dot for my rs1i


----------



## Amictus

I am an interloper here - but I'm hoping not to be. I have two pairs of cans: Sennheiser HD650 and AKG Q701. I got the 650s because of the the tendency of the Q701s to find a harsh glare in some music. They both have considerable merits, I'm keeping them both, but the HD650s are my default headphones. So - I'm looking at the Lyr or the Valhalla to smooth out the AKGs and to bring new life to the HD650s. I don't think that I want to go balanced yet. Any ideas, folks? I currently have an Audiolab M-DAC and a Lovely Cube SS amp. Valhalla for 100ish% tubes or the power of the Lyr? What do your ears tell you?


----------



## pdrm360

amictus said:


> I am an interloper here - but I'm hoping not to be. I have two pairs of cans: Sennheiser HD650 and AKG Q701. I got the 650s because of the the tendency of the Q701s to find a harsh glare in some music. They both have considerable merits, I'm keeping them both, but the HD650s are my default headphones. So - I'm looking at the Lyr or the Valhalla to smooth out the AKGs and to bring new life to the HD650s. I don't think that I want to go balanced yet. Any ideas, folks? I currently have an Audiolab M-DAC and a Lovely Cube SS amp. Valhalla for 100ish% tubes or the power of the Lyr? What do your ears tell you?


 
  
 The Valhalla is an OTL but it's brighter than the Lyr (to my ears). I do like the Valhalla for the HD650 but I'm not sure about the Q701.  I have the Lyr because I found it more all-rounder amp than the Valhalla.


----------



## UmustBKidn

amictus said:


> I am an interloper here - but I'm hoping not to be. I have two pairs of cans: Sennheiser HD650 and AKG Q701. I got the 650s because of the the tendency of the Q701s to find a harsh glare in some music. They both have considerable merits, I'm keeping them both, but the HD650s are my default headphones. So - I'm looking at the Lyr or the Valhalla to smooth out the AKGs and to bring new life to the HD650s. I don't think that I want to go balanced yet. Any ideas, folks? I currently have an Audiolab M-DAC and a Lovely Cube SS amp. Valhalla for 100ish% tubes or the power of the Lyr? What do your ears tell you?


 
  
 You may also want to consider the Bottlehead Crack for the HD 650's.


----------



## NinjaHamster

amictus said:


> I am an interloper here - but I'm hoping not to be. I have two pairs of cans: Sennheiser HD650 and AKG Q701. I got the 650s because of the the tendency of the Q701s to find a harsh glare in some music. They both have considerable merits, I'm keeping them both, but the HD650s are my default headphones. So - I'm looking at the Lyr or the Valhalla to smooth out the AKGs and to bring new life to the HD650s. I don't think that I want to go balanced yet. Any ideas, folks? I currently have an Audiolab M-DAC and a Lovely Cube SS amp. Valhalla for 100ish% tubes or the power of the Lyr? What do your ears tell you?


 
  
 The AKG 701's aren't that high an impedance, so the Valhalla shouldn't mate that well with them ... I know for a fact that the Lyr does ... and the added bass weight it supplies evens out the AKG's presentation a lot.


----------



## Amictus

pdrm360 said:


> The Valhalla is an OTL but it's brighter than the Lyr (to my ears). I do like the Valhalla for the HD650 but I'm not sure about the Q701.  I have the Lyr because I found it more all-rounder amp than the Valhalla.


 
  
  


umustbkidn said:


> You may also want to consider the Bottlehead Crack for the HD 650's.


 
  
  


ninjahamster said:


> The AKG 701's aren't that high an impedance, so the Valhalla shouldn't mate that well with them ... I know for a fact that the Lyr does ... and the added bass weight it supplies evens out the AKG's presentation a lot.


 

 Thank you so much, folks. I have also e-mailed Schiit who were very helpful. The Lyr is on its way! An interesting thing to me in this thread is the sheer number of people who have LOTS of equipment - there are practically complete collections of, er, Schiit out there... I'll let you know how it goes. Burn-in time advice, anyone?


----------



## sceleratus

amictus said:


> Thank you so much, folks. I have also e-mailed Schiit who were very helpful. The Lyr is on its way! An interesting thing to me in this thread is the sheer number of people who have LOTS of equipment - there are practically complete collections of, er, Schiit out there... I'll let you know how it goes. Burn-in time advice, anyone?


 
 CONGRATULATIONS  !!!!
  
 Now you and your wallet need to go HERE.


----------



## Amictus

sceleratus said:


> CONGRATULATIONS  !!!!
> 
> Now you and your wallet need to go HERE.


 

 Give me a break, sceleratus! But thanks! The expression 'tube-rolling' was already troubling my composure.


----------



## Amictus

The Lyr is on its way! I now need a good CD transport... Ideas?


----------



## john57

I brought the Onkyo 3070 for $110 best CD only player for the price.


----------



## Radioking59

amictus said:


> The Lyr is on its way! I now need a good CD transport... Ideas?




You couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player. Computer playback is the way to go if you ask me. I recently got all my SACDs ripped with a PS3 and have discs out of my life for good. I say good riddance!


----------



## ejwiles

+1


----------



## sceleratus

+1
 Mac user.....
 Audirvana for iTunes integration.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Amarra sounds a tad better, but you can't beat the Audirvana tiny iTunes proxy files for flac.  (IMO)
 Schiit Gungnir
 The last thing to touch a CD was XLD
 All vinyl has been ripped to flac using a MOTO Microbook finessed with ClickRepair.
 Everything is backed up to 3T Pegasus R4 RAID 5.   And a 1T portable.
  
 Get a Schiit Gungnir your and call it your CD transport.  Done


----------



## MattTCG

amictus said:


> Thank you so much, folks. I have also e-mailed Schiit who were very helpful. The Lyr is on its way! An interesting thing to me in this thread is the sheer number of people who have LOTS of equipment - there are practically complete collections of, er, Schiit out there... I'll let you know how it goes. Burn-in time advice, anyone?


 
  
 What tubes are you planning to use with the lyr? The sound will be more effected by the tubes than burn in.


----------



## markm1

john57 said:


> I brought the Onkyo 3070 for $110 best CD only player for the price.


 

 I also have the 7030 and agree it's a great value. I'm curious what advantage a $300-500 + player would give you. I feel like I get great, clean, neutral sound.


----------



## timidteddy

Can't wait for my M&M stack to arrrive! soon to be schiit owner O.O


----------



## NinjaHamster

timidteddy said:


> Can't wait for my M&M stack to arrrive! soon to be schiit owner O.O


 
  
 Mm - it melts in your mouth, not in your hand ...


----------



## Amictus

matttcg said:


> What tubes are you planning to use with the lyr? The sound will be more effected by the tubes than burn in.


 
 I took Nick's advice and ordered the NOS Tungsram ECC85 tubes with the unit. That means absolutely nothing to me - yet. I am hanging about here and hoping to learn...


----------



## LiteKirby

Purchased an Asfard 2 and Modi, not sure why I thought the Asgard would be huge and the Modi tiny. The Modi is smaller than I expected and the Asgard not as large, and dare I day the Modi looks just so... Cute on top of the Asgard. Such quality from a tiny DAC.

I think its an improvement from my old e7/e9, haven't heard it long enough to say for sure but just having 24/96 playback is a huge plus.


----------



## john57

markm1 said:


> I also have the 7030 and agree it's a great value. I'm curious what advantage a $300-500 + player would give you. I feel like I get great, clean, neutral sound.


 

 I think that you will reach that point of dismissing returns and in some cases just a different sonic “flavor“ of sound. I think that the only point with a more expensive unit is to add more features like the OPPO.


----------



## joebobbilly

matttcg said:


> What tubes are you planning to use with the lyr? The sound will be more effected by the tubes than burn in.


 

 +1.  I tried my friend's Lyr with JJ tubes... HATED it. Afterwards, my friend got some Russion NOS tubes... better. Then he got his hands on some Amperex Orange Globes... yummmmmmm


----------



## bearFNF

john57 said:


> I think that you will reach that point of dismissing returns and in some cases just a different sonic “flavor“ of sound. I think that the only point with a more expensive unit is to add more features like the OPPO.


 

 ^^agree with this. I did the Oppo 103 so I could also replace my blu-ray player that was acting up.  really like the fact that it can be networked, read thumb drives, and be controlled by my android devices etc.


----------



## john57

I already have a Blu-Ray burner in my PC which is also my DAW station and have two sets of Near-Field monitors with a 3D monitor. I do a lot of video streaming on the web. So I do not need the additional features of the OPPO. I did find that the Onkyo 3070 analog outputs have better sound quality that some of the outboard DAC's units I have. Great value in that aspect.


----------



## UmustBKidn

joebobbilly said:


> +1.  I tried my friend's Lyr with JJ tubes... HATED it. Afterwards, my friend got some Russion NOS tubes... better. Then he got his hands on some Amperex Orange Globes... yummmmmmm


 
  
 At the risk of disagreeing with someone, I suggest getting your hands on as old a set of tubes as you can afford.
  
 I've not personally tried tube rolling a Lyr. So I could be wrong. But my experience tube rolling my budget-fi amps, older tubes sound *SO* much better than anything new, that it is worth the time and money to invest in them. Especially when we're talking about a higher quality amp, I would not hesitate to hop onto ebay and start bidding on some vintage valves.


----------



## NinjaHamster

umustbkidn said:


> At the risk of disagreeing with someone, I suggest getting your hands on as old a set of tubes as you can afford.
> 
> I've not personally tried tube rolling a Lyr. So I could be wrong. But my experience tube rolling my budget-fi amps, older tubes sound *SO* much better than anything new, that it is worth the time and money to invest in them. Especially when we're talking about a higher quality amp, I would not hesitate to hop onto ebay and start bidding on some vintage valves.


 
 Who are you disagreeing with ??  You just agreed with the poster you quoted in your response.  The Amperex Orange Globes were made from late 60's to early 70's ... but no please DON'T just buy the earliest tubes you can find ... buy the BEST early tubes you can afford !!  The Amperex Orange Globes are a great choice.


----------



## UmustBKidn

ninjahamster said:


> Who are you disagreeing with ??  You just agreed with the poster you quoted in your response.  The Amperex Orange Globes were made from late 60's to early 70's ... but no please DON'T just buy the earliest tubes you can find ... buy the BEST early tubes you can afford !!  The Amperex Orange Globes are a great choice.


 
  
 Yes, I agreed. And yes, Amperex orange globes are awesome.


----------



## Amictus

ninjahamster said:


> Who are you disagreeing with ??  You just agreed with the poster you quoted in your response.  The Amperex Orange Globes were made from late 60's to early 70's ... but no please DON'T just buy the earliest tubes you can find ... buy the BEST early tubes you can afford !!  The Amperex Orange Globes are a great choice.


 
  
  


umustbkidn said:


> Yes, I agreed. And yes, Amperex orange globes are awesome.





 Tube newbie question of the day: why are (good) older tubes better? There was a wider use of valves then, leading to more efficient production with economies of scale? The Lord Sauron stole the recipe?
  
 Thank you for all this good advice - Ebay sounds a bit risky, though... still, in for a penny, in for a couple of hundred dollars.


----------



## NinjaHamster

amictus said:


> Tube newbie question of the day: why are (good) older tubes better? There was a wider use of valves then, leading to more efficient production with economies of scale? The Lord Sauron stole the recipe?
> 
> Thank you for all this good advice - Ebay sounds a bit risky, though... still, in for a penny, in for a couple of hundred dollars.


 
 LOL - I think you come closest with the "Sauron stole the recipe" bit.  Probably that they were more widely used back then, economies of scale, quantity of research and design, quality control at the factories - some say their metallurgy was better ... take your pick.  If you buy from a good seller (like "mercedesman6572") at least you won't get ripped off.  Check out the Lyr tube rollers" thread for my details before buying, and feel free to ask me any questions on there.
  
 Here's a link to that thread - go nuts !!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers


----------



## thrillscience

Just got a Valhalla and Bifrost.

 This is my first venture into tubes in 30 years. I had tube equipment as a kid, (I'm 51) because that's what was in hand-me-downs from relatives, etc. But as an adult, all the equipment I purchased was solid state.
  
 So now that I'm all grown up and have a few extra dollars, I decided to stick my toes into the world of head-fi. I got a Grado RS1i, and the Schiit Amplifier / DAC and am very pleased. I'm re-listening to everything, and it's amazing what I'm hearing; things I never knew were in the music. (I listen to Classical and Jazz, and a lot of piano, as I'm a pianist myself.)
  
 I don't have experience with other equipment, but I think I made a reasonable choice starting out.


----------



## jaywillin

thrillscience said:


> Just got a Valhalla and Bifrost.
> 
> This is my first venture into tubes in 30 years. I had tube equipment as a kid, (I'm 51) because that's what was in hand-me-downs from relatives, etc. But as an adult, all the equipment I purchased was solid state.
> 
> ...


 

 i'd say you made a great starting point !
 i worked my up to a lyr/bifrost(gen2., uber upgrade) with my rs1i , i'm a big schiit fan !!


----------



## thrillscience

jaywillin said:


> i'd say you made a great starting point !
> i worked my up to a lyr/bifrost(gen2., uber upgrade) with my rs1i , i'm a big schiit fan !!


 
  
 I have to say, I really like the look of the Woo Wa7, but I wasn't able to hear one locally, and the niceness of the glass cube is offset by the power supply brick. Maybe if I get a second amp for the office!


----------



## Amictus

john57 said:


> I think that you will reach that point of dismissing returns and in some cases just a different sonic “flavor“ of sound. I think that the only point with a more expensive unit is to add more features like the OPPO.


 

 Yes, I am thinking of getting the Oppo BDP 103 for its flexibility. The Onkyo that people mention has lots of reliability issues reported on Amazon. I know a friend with a BDP 105, and that sounds fine... I'm also going to drop into a hi-fi shop locally to talk about a couple of CD transports, but I do value the possibility of playing SACDs...


----------



## Amictus

umustbkidn said:


> You may also want to consider the Bottlehead Crack for the HD 650's.


 

 Dear UmustBKidn - thanks for your advice, which I haven't ignored. The Crack is on the list! I don't have time to build one at the moment, though. If the Lyr doesn't do it for me with the HD 650s, that will be my next port of call.


----------



## jaywillin

thrillscience said:


> I should have mentioned, the Schitt I got was the Valhalla and the Bifrost.
> 
> I have to say, I really like the look of the Woo Wa7, but I wasn't able to hear one locally, and the niceness of the glass cube is offset by the power supply brick. Maybe if I get a second amp for the office!


 

 yes , you did say vahalla, i ended up with the lyr, , i now have a burson soloist with the bifrost
 this hobby have a way of making me want more ! lol
 sorry for your wallet !


----------



## john57

amictus said:


> Yes, I am thinking of getting the Oppo BDP 103 for its flexibility. The Onkyo that people mention has lots of reliability issues reported on Amazon. I know a friend with a BDP 105, and that sounds fine... I'm also going to drop into a hi-fi shop locally to talk about a couple of CD transports, but I do value the possibility of playing SACDs...


 

 If you compare the Onkyo to the best seller the Sony CDP-CE500 on Amazon you will find that the Onkyo is much more reliable than the Sony. I looked at the internal pictures of the Onkyo and it basically better built as compared to other I have seen. I would agreed that the OPPO has better reliability than either. I have a few SACD disks but the market is very small and I do not see that will ever grow much and you would have to consider the fact that people buying physical disks are shrinking. Good luck in your endeavor!


----------



## Uchiya

Grrrr...don't you just hate it when USPS is late on the "Expected Delivery" date?


----------



## Megalith

Does anyone have any cleaning advice? My Valhalla and Bifrost seem to be showing white streaks, which I figure might be oxidation.


----------



## sceleratus

megalith said:


> Does anyone have any cleaning advice? My Valhalla and Bifrost seem to be showing white streaks, which I figure might be oxidation.


 
 Do not try to polish them with metal polish, bar keepers friend, etc.
 This will remove the clear finish.
  
 When I built my amp and hap the top panel professionally polished I asked how best to remove smudges and finger prints.
 To my amazement:
  
 "Lemon Pledge"
  
 It works great
  
 Further,  It's unlikely to be oxidation since it is clear coated.
 EDIT:  I can't type/spell


----------



## bearFNF

I would recommend spraying it on the towel or rag you are cleaning with and not directly on the component, to keep over spray from getting inside the amp or DAC.  Oh, and unplug them obviously...


----------



## uncola

You guys need my special cryo treated lemon pledge.  the lemon molecules are more uniform


----------



## sceleratus

bearfnf said:


> I would recommend spraying it on the towel or rag you are cleaning with and not directly on the component, to keep over spray from getting inside the amp or DAC.  Oh, and unplug them obviously...


 
 +1 Always spray the cloth.  
  
 "Micro Fiber" cloth. Get a ten pack at your local auto parts store.


----------



## UmustBKidn

amictus said:


> Tube newbie question of the day: why are (good) older tubes better? There was a wider use of valves then, leading to more efficient production with economies of scale? The Lord Sauron stole the recipe?
> 
> Thank you for all this good advice - Ebay sounds a bit risky, though... still, in for a penny, in for a couple of hundred dollars.


 
  
 Transistors came along. Then integrated circuits (IC's). Most (but not all) tubes became obsolete. That's why. In the 80's and 90's I spent some time working at a company that made some of the last remaining vacuum tubes on the planet, so I know a little about them. There aren't many people wandering the planet these days who can tell you much about tubes. The folks on Head-fi are probably one of the best remaining resources.
  
 The recipe was lost, is probably a good analogy. More to the point, no one cared any more. The economies of scale just aren't there for a relatively small handful of audiophiles, who still want tubes. The Chinese and Russian folks who bought the rights to make Tung-Sol tubes for example, apparently didn't also buy some of the arcane knowledge that has since been lost to time.
  
 The remaining tubes made today are for things like satellites, radar, etc, and they're insanely expensive. They also don't resemble audio tubes, but the general principle is the same.
  
 When it comes to hand-made things like audio tubes (and the stuff I worked on), there a lot of things about the process that just weren't written down. The folks who really know what to do, retired, passed away, etc before documenting what they knew. Metallurgy was probably part of it, but that's surely not all of it. People become subject matter experts in their little parts of the world, that made pieces of this tube or that. For whatever reason, they chose not to share what they knew before they moved on. Speaking from direct experience, I know that there are undocumented parts of the process. Sadly this is true in a lot of fields where manufacturing is involved.
  
 Today, I am a big fan of documenting things that haven't been written down, and this is one of the reasons why. Any time there is too much "Tribal knowledge" involved in any process, the company making (whatever it is) loses out when the folks who don't document what they know, leave the company, retire, die in a car accident, etc. It doesn't help when the technology you're working on becomes obsolete. People and companies lose interest. The art of making Really Good Tubes is gone.
  
 As for ebay being risky, yes, it is. But it's less so today than when I first started using it in the 90s. You do need to keep your eyes open, and know a lot about what you're looking for. I've had a couple expensive deals in the last 8 months or so, but most of the people I've dealt with on ebay are good folks, who honestly describe what they sell. I've even run into a few Really Good Deals (like old Mullard's for under $10 or $20 bucks), but those are usually unbalanced/test low and are quite rare. However, there are lots of good old American tubes for sale cheaply (I bought a Raytheon long black plate 12AU7 not long ago for under $12 shipped). The best deal I found was a man selling 5963 tubes for $2.50 each (I bought a half dozen lol). Best thing to do is buy from someone with a 100% positive feedback. The people who are highly rated don't usually risk that rating on one bad deal.


----------



## Amictus

Thank you UmustBKidn, for that splendid post. It was really helpful. When my Lyr arrives (and I have built my Bottlehead Crack, eventually?) I will try to be content with the stock tubes - but we all know that it won't last!


----------



## Amictus

Dear community - my Lyr is coming (hopefully, courtesy of FedEx). Any particular advice as to cables DAC - amp? I have an Audiolab M-DAC at the moment.


----------



## UmustBKidn

amictus said:


> Thank you UmustBKidn, for that splendid post. It was really helpful. When my Lyr arrives (and I have built my Bottlehead Crack, eventually?) I will try to be content with the stock tubes - but we all know that it won't last!


 
  
 Well, my friend, I apologize if I left you with the impression that tube rolling was something to be avoided. Personally, I think that's one of the more fun and adventurous parts of this hobby! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be the last person to advise you to stick with stock tubes. There is a Lyr tube rolling thread somewhere on this website, and I would highly recommend you visit it.
  
 Just fyi, when I began futzing with cheap little hybrid amps, I started out buying some brand new tubes (e.g. the Russian made Tung-Sol, the JJ Electronics, and an Electro Harmonix tube). They were a minor improvement over the stock tube, but not much. The real improvements came when I finally decided to dust off my ebay account and buy some old American made tubes.
  
 You can't go too far wrong if you put a price cap on what you're willing to spend (say, $20 per tube). And if you end up becoming a minor tube collector (like I did), no matter how silly or expensive that adventure might seem, I will guarantee that you'll learn a lot about that famous Tube Sound - and what sounds good (or bad) to you. And that's what you really want, after all.


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> Dear community - my Lyr is coming (hopefully, courtesy of FedEx). Any particular advice as to cables DAC - amp? I have an Audiolab M-DAC at the moment.


 
 My contribution: get the Bifrost Uber


----------



## Amictus

kothganesh said:


> My contribution: get the Bifrost Uber


 
 Thank you for that. My question was about cables, but tell me, what added value will I get from the Bifrost Uber?


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> Thank you for that. My question was about cables, but tell me, what added value will I get from the Bifrost Uber?



First my apologies for a wrong answer. So much for speed reading . Second, I have not heard the Audiolab DAC hence I cannot be of any value add in terms of comparison. To my ears, the Bifrost/Lyr is a great combination and the Uber upgrades the Bifrost to (almost) the Gungnir.
To return to your query, I have a pair of PYST cables (read single ended RCA) that connect the Bifrost to the Lyr. Something like this should work for you.


----------



## Tuco1965

I use short cables from Monoprice.  They're inexpensive and allow for a nice neat stack.


----------



## jaywillin

cables, i don't spend a ton on, i pretty much use audioquest, the entry levels for the most part
  
 and, my vali arrived today, its a powerful little bugger !!


----------



## sceleratus

When I had a Lyr I used Schiit PYST interconnects.  Very nice, great value.
 I now make my own using Neutrik connectors and Mic cable.  2 conductors each in a dielectric, then surrounded by a copper braided shield.  If you decide to make a set terminate the braided shield on one end only.  Economical, built well and sounds great.
  
 Here's an article from a brilliant engineer about audio cable and speaker wire.
  
 Thumbs up on the Bifrost Über upgrade.  A much greater sonic return than interconnect cables.


----------



## theseaminer

Just bought my first amp and DAC ever last Friday. I went ahead with the Asgard 2 + Bifrost Uber combo. Hopefully they ship out my order this week. Reminds me of being a kid at Christmas.


----------



## jaywillin

theseaminer said:


> Just bought my first amp and DAC ever last Friday. I went ahead with the Asgard 2 + Bifrost Uber combo. Hopefully they ship out my order this week. Reminds me of being a kid at Christmas.


 

 cool ain't it ?? congrats !!
  
 thats a killer combo


----------



## theseaminer

jaywillin said:


> cool ain't it ?? congrats !!
> 
> thats a killer combo


 
 Yeah. Super excited. The most audiophile I've experience is my Audio Technica ATH-M30's running through my soundcard built into the motherboard in my computer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think I'm going to burn in my new HD600's, and my new amp + dac for 50 hours before I give them a listen.


----------



## noobandroid

my brain is still stirring on whether my dacport LX or modi is better.. keep my daport LX or buy the modi, since i have magni


----------



## jaywillin

theseaminer said:


> Yeah. Super excited. The most audiophile I've experience is my Audio Technica ATH-M30's running through my soundcard built into the motherboard in my computer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i start listening from the get go !! ,
 but then i'll leave the on, playing, when i'm not listening to speed the process along
 i think you are in for a real treat !


----------



## theseaminer

Did anyone order an Asgard 2 last week? Just wondering how long the "backorder" usually means. Days? Weeks?


----------



## Robobandit

Got to say, that's a hell of a way to start off 
  
 Congrats on your new Schiit!
  
 edit - 
  


> Did anyone order an Asgard 2 last week? Just wondering how long the "backorder" usually means. Days? Weeks?


 
  
 Their store page seems to indicate that they expect to be able to ship more asgard2 units this week. I'm sure if you sent an email to info@schiit.com they could let you know how things are looking.
  
  
 As for me, I've done something horrible...
  
 I was enjoying my Magni/Modi stack and I decided to pick up a Vali to try it out.
  
 I really like the sound properties of the Vali more than the Magni. Music just seems to sound a bit more alive out of the Vali to my ears.
  
 This has inspired me to upgrade to the Bifrost Uber DAC, which I just ordered earlier today.
  
 I decided to do that for a few reasons
  
 1) I figured the Bifrost + Uber would be a great base to start from if/when I was ready to step up to a higher end amp and higher end headphones
  
 2) I could sell the Magni/Modi as a stack or use it as an office audio rig without buying additional components
  
 3) I always thought Bifrost was a really cool name for a DAC (since the DAC is basically the bridge between digital and analog audio, I felt it was pretty fitting)
  
 4) Some crazy people seem to think the Vali sounds better when fed from a higher end DAC


----------



## UmustBKidn

robobandit said:


> ...
> As for me, I've done something horrible...
> 
> I was enjoying my Magni/Modi stack and I decided to pick up a Vali to try it out.
> ...


 
  
 Why is that horrible?
 Unless of course, you needed that money to pay the rent. Or mortgage. Or if you can't hear the difference.
  
 To the chagrin of some, I tend to recommend starting out on the less expensive gear, and moving up, if and only if you can hear the difference. That's because I'm an Old Guy (tm). Being an Old Guy means, among other things, that my ears just don't work as well as someone who is 2 or 3 decades younger than I am.
  
 This falls in the category of the old joke about the sound of a tree falling in the forest.
  
 If you can hear the difference between say, a Modi vs. a Bifrost (Uber or not), and if you can afford the better DAC, you should certainly go for it. If you can't hear the difference, then it doesn't matter if the Bifrost Uber is better or not. Spending the extra money, just because someone else tells you that Gear X is better than Gear Y, is kind of pointless if you can't personally hear it.
  
 Some folks recommend the better DAC without regards to the ability of the listener to hear the difference. Sure, the Bifrost Uber is better than the Modi. No argument there. *But can you hear the difference?* If you're like me and you've measured the upper limits of your hearing ability (at about 14 kHz in my case), then one might reasonably wonder if spending the extra $400 bucks is worth it.
  
 Personally, I will not be buying a Bifrost Uber until such time as I can A-B it with a Modi. If I can hear a difference, then I'll spend the money. If I can't, then I'll buy another Modi (and I do need another DAC). It doesn't make economic sense to me to just spend the extra money, without testing my own ears first.


----------



## Robobandit

Yeah, that's a good point.
  
 I'll definitely be doing some a/b when it gets here.
  
 When i say "horrible" I mean in the sense that I've opened the door to "oh, well now I need a pair of HD800 to compliment my new toys"
  
 I'm discovering that the world of personal hi-fi is (potentially) a very expensive place! (and that's without touching the summit-fi level stuff)


----------



## Byronb

umustbkidn said:


> Why is that horrible?
> Unless of course, you needed that money to pay the rent. Or mortgage. Or if you can't hear the difference.
> 
> To the chagrin of some, I tend to recommend starting out on the less expensive gear, and moving up, if and only if you can hear the difference. That's because I'm an Old Guy (tm). Being an Old Guy means, among other things, that my ears just don't work as well as someone who is 2 or 3 decades younger than I am.
> ...


 
 Excellent post!!!


----------



## theseaminer

The reason I decided to dive in and spend some cash is because I'm an aspiring mixing engineer, and will be primarily mixing on headphones for a while (until I have afford the right room treatment and right monitors). It's direly important for me to hear every nuance of the music, thus I feel as though it's justified. I've never even heard of this website or even headphone amps/DAC's until I decided I needed to get some good headphones for mixing! Normally, I probably would have never dropped this amount of money on headphones, or anything else to listen to music, regardless of how much of a music lover I am.


----------



## WraithZA

Hi everyone.
  
 I'm hoping to get some advice regarding which Schiit amp to pull the trigger on. I've recently purchased myself a pair of HD 650's and am looking to find an amp that will bring out the most of their latent potential.
  
 My current setup is the following:
 MP3s (320kbps) & FLACs --> Foobar2000 --> Xonar ST (also own E17) --> HD 650 (and AD700)
  
 I'm currently considering getting either the Valhalla or the Lyr. I know the Valhalla should complement the HD650's pretty well, however I'm leaning towards the Lyr due to the increased versatility with other phones and the increased power and sound stage.
  
 My usage patterns is mostly for gaming and for listening to music and I don't really want to compromise on either. From what I understand, the Valhalla will excel for music applications, whereas for gaming the Lyr should be better due to the increased sound stage/headroom (please correct me if i'm speaking nonsense, I'm new to all these audiophile terms).
  
 Taking money out of the equation, which of the two would you recommend?


----------



## Amictus

wraithza said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some advice regarding which Schiit amp to pull the trigger on. I've recently purchased myself a pair of HD 650's and am looking to find an amp that will bring out the most of their latent potential.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I can't give advice, but I can express solidarity! I was trying to make the same call - very recently, as you will see from reading this very thread... I went for the Lyr for its versatility (all that power) and for its proven track record with the two cans that I use most, the HD 650s and the Q701s. I also made the mistake (?) of phoning Russ Andrews here in the UK and asking them to recommend interconnect. http://bit.ly/1co43cv is what they said. They had better be good! I will be going CD and FLACS -> Foobar -> Audiolab M-Dac -> Lyr -> HD 650. An Oppo BD 103 may be coming from Santa Claus to improve the CD source. I'll let you know. I hope that FedEx looks after those tubes - the Lyr is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. Cables idem.


----------



## UmustBKidn

wraithza said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some advice regarding which Schiit amp to pull the trigger on. I've recently purchased myself a pair of HD 650's and am looking to find an amp that will bring out the most of their latent potential.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I'm going out on a limb here, and will speak of things I don't own. lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If I were in your position, I would opt for a tube amp (for those cans specifically). Would I opt for an expensive hybrid (e.g. the Lyr)? I don't think so. As much as I've read about the Lyr, I'm just not convinced I'd ever buy one. I've spent many hours listening to cheap hybrid amps, and honestly, if money was not an object, I would not drop big dollars on an expensive hybrid. I'd go for an all-tube amp.
  
 So that narrows it down to the Valhalla, or Something Else. Personally, the Something Else for me is a Bottlehead Crack. It's in the approximate price range of the Valhalla, but you need to build it yourself. I'm not afraid of a soldering gun, so thats not an issue for me. It's also very highly regarded for your cans (the 650's), so it's definitely a choice to consider. Does it bother me that it's not a Schiit product? Well, no. That wouldn't affect my decision.
  
 Would your choice of listening material affect my choice? Perhaps. Honestly, though, I've never considered spending big bucks on audio gear for gaming. I spent 6-1/2 years playing World of Warcraft until giving it up recently. I owned a pair of Razer Carcharias for most of that time, that I ran straight out of the headphone jack on my gaming machine. I spent $1000 bucks on the computer, and $65 bucks on the headphones. I just didn't need anything more than that. Maybe you do. But it wasn't a consideration for me. I'd rather have a good video card lol


----------



## WraithZA

I would be pretty keen on getting the Crack, however I'm a little concerned with the shipping costs and the possibility that a part could be missing/damaged from the kit (I've heard this has happened on occasion) which would require me to reship 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Rossliew

Just received the dimunitive pair of Vali and Modi today and now happily listening to it straight out of the box. One word - SOLID!! I'm not listening to any hi-res files, just regular mp3s and Spotify free. Lose Yourself to Dance by Daft Punk sounds just dancy and punchy, the bass is reverberating inside my head! Using a woodied SR80i, this pair is very synergistic with the Grado. 
  
 Kudos to Schiit for another great and affordable product !!


----------



## Armaegis

theseaminer said:


> The reason I decided to dive in and spend some cash is because I'm an aspiring mixing engineer, and will be primarily mixing on headphones for a while (until I have afford the right room treatment and right monitors). It's direly important for me to hear every nuance of the music, thus I feel as though it's justified. I've never even heard of this website or even headphone amps/DAC's until I decided I needed to get some good headphones for mixing! Normally, I probably would have never dropped this amount of money on headphones, or anything else to listen to music, regardless of how much of a music lover I am.


 
  
 If your budget is limited, put your money into an interface that has a reasonable headphone output and a modded Fostex T50rp. Save your money for the monitors etc. If you'll be on headphones for a while, a couple different ones wouldn't hurt (but again that chips into the budget) and speaker/room emulation plugins will be your friend.


----------



## theseaminer

Foster T50rp huh? I just bought a Scarlett 18i20 to suffice as an interface that can also record a full kit if it came down to it. Drums really only sound as good as the room they are recorded in, so having some room treatment will also help justify that as well. I'm not necessarily extremely strapped for cash, so it helps open up my options a bit until I start getting steady clients.


----------



## Armaegis

Oh, sorry I shouldn't just assume that people getting into the hobby are on a tight budget. I was actually thinking of recommending the Focusrite Saffire 24 Pro DSP since it has a built-in room emulator which is quite good (I have the standalone VRMbox).
  
 I recommended the Fostex T50rp since it is a planar magnetic driver which renderes it mostly immune to the effect of high output impedance which is commonly found in "pro" audio devices (which with the majority of "voice coil" headphones will cause a bump in the midbass response). The Fostex is also affordable at $100-ish and $25 worth of mods can bring it to a pretty good reference level for mixing purposes.


----------



## theseaminer

armaegis said:


> Oh, sorry I shouldn't just assume that people getting into the hobby are on a tight budget. I was actually thinking of recommending the Focusrite Saffire 24 Pro DSP since it has a built-in room emulator which is quite good (I have the standalone VRMbox).
> 
> I recommended the Fostex T50rp since it is a planar magnetic driver which renderes it mostly immune to the effect of high output impedance which is commonly found in "pro" audio devices (which with the majority of "voice coil" headphones will cause a bump in the midbass response). The Fostex is also affordable at $100-ish and $25 worth of mods can bring it to a pretty good reference level for mixing purposes.




Yeah, I was looking at the Sapphire, but I don't use Firewire, so decided to go with the Scarlett. You into mixing?


----------



## Byronb

wraithza said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some advice regarding which Schiit amp to pull the trigger on. I've recently purchased myself a pair of HD 650's and am looking to find an amp that will bring out the most of their latent potential.
> 
> ...


 
 Being an owner of the Valhalla, and some decent exposure to the BHC, I would say you can't go wrong either way. I personally like the having the knowledge that the Schiit stuff is backed some really great people. I know I am not left to the wolves after my purchase and I don't have to search on forums to figure out what I may have screwed up in the process of putting the kit together.


----------



## Armaegis

theseaminer said:


> Yeah, I was looking at the Sapphire, but I don't use Firewire, so decided to go with the Scarlett. You into mixing?


 
  
 Not really. Small-time editing and production/radio work, a bit of DJ'ing, and using those as excuses to buy more gear


----------



## Amictus

The reassuringly heavy Lyr has arrived, as have the cables from Russ Andrews.


----------



## Tuco1965

Yeah it definitely has some heft to it. Time to put some hours on it now.


----------



## WraithZA

amictus said:


> The reassuringly heavy Lyr has arrived, as have the cables from Russ Andrews.


 
 Let us know what you think of the Lyr/650 pairing .
  
 Also what tubes are you using with the Lyr?


----------



## dgriffter

Absolutely loving the Lyr/650 pairing with some early bugle boys


----------



## Amictus

tuco1965 said:


> Yeah it definitely has some heft to it. Time to put some hours on it now.


 
  
  


wraithza said:


> Let us know what you think of the Lyr/650 pairing .
> 
> Also what tubes are you using with the Lyr?


 

 Well, first of all, it's great to be a Schiit-carrying member of this forum now. I have carried out two upgrades almost simultaneously. The Kimber Kable Silver Streak interconnect hit my system yesterday, replacing perfectly respectable interconnect by Chord. Foobar2000 --> Audiolab M-DAC --> Lovely Cube SS --> HD650 and Q701. The difference was astonishing: focus, separation, clean transients... you name it. I am told that the interconnect makes the least difference, but this was some least difference! Astounding! So, the Lyr arrives today (a day late). It has had three and half hours of burn-in. The tubes are the NOS Tungsram ECC85 currently offered as an upgrade.
  
 My impressions of the sound so far (too early - I know!) The AKG Q701s are greatly helped by the Lyr, but still have their brittle treble moments. They are better at what they are good at and worse (much) at what they are bad at. The sound on the HD650s is a little muffled, but with lots of promise concerning subtlety in conveying transients etc. I can also detect a widening of the soundstage. At the moment I miss the hit of the SS amp, but there is everything to play for. I don't know where to go from here with the tube-rolling. I'm classical, with lots of big orchestral sounds, but also lieder. Also Tom Waits. I'm complicated, what can I tell you? Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner, Schubert, Berg, Tom Waits. You got a problem with that?
  
 There is a lack of immediacy with HD650s at the moment. That's where we are after, now, four hours. I have just listened to Schoenberg's Herzgewächse sung by Christine Schäfer and conducted by Boulez, however. I was grateful for the lack of immediacy! With continued thanks to the community for your help, support and advice. May the Schiit be with you!


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

amictus said:


> Well, first of all, it's great to be a Schiit-carrying member of this forum now. I have carried out two upgrades almost simultaneously. The Kimber Kable Silver Streak interconnect hit my system yesterday, replacing perfectly respectable interconnect by Chord. Foobar2000 --> Audiolab M-DAC --> Lovely Cube SS --> HD650 and Q701. The difference was astonishing: focus, separation, clean transients... you name it. I am told that the interconnect makes the least difference, but this was some least difference! Astounding! So, the Lyr arrives today (a day late). It has had three and half hours of burn-in. *The tubes are the NOS Tungsram ECC85 currently offered as an upgrade*.




I haven't been on the schiit site in a minute but is that what they are currently offering as the tube upgrade, didn't see it on there?


----------



## Amictus

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I haven't been on the schiit site in a minute but is that what they are currently offering as the tube upgrade, didn't see it on there?


 
  
 When I ordered the Lyr, they came up as an option (+$50). I consulted them about what I was after and Nick T. gave the following advice:
  
 "Lyr is magic with the Q701s, while Valhalla will struggle. HD650 is a tossup—Valhalla is slightly more open and holographic, but I’d take Lyr’s power and control.
  
 If you go with Lyr, get the Tungsram tubes while we have a few left."


----------



## sceleratus

my 2 cents...
 LaRadioTechnique (RTC) E1CC88 mid 1960
 Amperex USN-CEP 6922 mid 1960's
 Orange Globes.
  This eBay seller is amazing.  Mercedesman backs his glass 100%
 That's incredible when the product is 40 years old.  Ask anyone on the tube rolling thread.


----------



## Amictus

Can't see that one. What about the other Orange Globes? Bugle Boy?


----------



## MattTCG

OG's will be warmer and lush. The bugle boys will have more resolution, airy and tighter bass. The laradiotechique are crazy expensive and I have not heard them.


----------



## Amictus

Well, I got some Orange Globes. We'll see! In for a penny, in for a pound, as we say over the pond...


----------



## sceleratus

amictus said:


> Can't see that one. What about the other Orange Globes? Bugle Boy?



I like the OG' over the BB's again 1967 and earlier. I didn't care for dimple getters or A frames. My tastes are "o" getters preferably large "O" getters. Like the RTC's. Beware of new Mullard RTCs. Again my tastes. 

I do have a set of 1958 Bugle Boys "D". Getter. 

I had a Lyr with HD650 and an ÜberFrist. The I loved the. OG's. Then I moved to LCD2 and it really came together. Then I sold the Lyr and built the 300B. Im using the same receiver valves above. 
My preferences. If you'd like some valve material and links send me a PM


----------



## Amictus

wraithza said:


> Let us know what you think of the Lyr/650 pairing .
> 
> Also what tubes are you using with the Lyr?


 

 Well, now - after 8+ hours of burning-in - the Lyr is opening up the soundstage of the HD650s and giving a tight and controlled bass. The bass 'bulge' of the HD650s is no longer a bulge - it's an opportunity which the Lyr makes full use of. This is my first experience of valves since the radiogram in the family home in the 1960s (wish that I had pocketed the tubes,actually). They are finicky things, though. They need wooing. When I came back home this evening, I turned the Lyr on and started listening within ten minutes. The sound was colourless, weak in timbre, exactly the stong point of the HD650s with my SS amp. Now, an hour later, it sounds better and has some amazing aspects to it - spatial freedom and amplitude, fine detail and so on. Timbre is still not what it was, but there is a control of soundstage and imaging which is very good. I'm looking forward to the next 90 hours or so.


----------



## Rem0o

I've heard Valhalla gives the best timbre and soundstage, while the Lyr gave the most power and control. I opted for the former.


----------



## dgriffter

I was in a similar position re: Valhalla vs Lyr (plus others, such as Woo, Bottlehead, etc.). I opted for a Lyr for a) ubiquity, b) tube rolling options, c) possible ortho choice down the road and d) resale price, in case I wasn't happy. Oh, and I am totally electronics-blind, so Bottlehead was pretty much out the question. 
  
 Whilst I have never heard a Valhalla, one might argue that tube selection might have a whole bunch to do with timbre and soundstage, though I'll be honest with you, I am not 100% sure what timbre actually is, although I imagine it to be similar to tone? 
  
 Has anyone heard both Valhalla and Lyr with same chain who cares to comment?


----------



## delfin9299

I've been lurking on these boards for quite a while, I have gained a lot of useful knowledge from many different users and I was led in the direction of the Schiit brand.  Maybe it was their name, their reputation, their great website... Whatever it was, I was intrigued. I started out with the Bifrost/Asgard 1 combo and I knew right then I was on to something special.  My original headphones were the Denon D5000s and at first, I was sure that nothing could top what I already had........
  
  
 How wrong I was.
  
  
 With a relatively short span of time, my Asgard 1 became an Asgard 2 and my perfectly good Denons became Audeze LCD-2s.   Upgrading finished, right?
  
  
 Wrong.
  
  
 I just set up my Gungnir/Mjolnir stack this week and without hesitation, I say that my music currently sounds the way I've always wanted it to sound. Extremely rich and detailed.  In a word, awesome in almost every respect.  The exciting part is that my new gear isn't even completely broken-in based on others' experiences. 
  
 I have yet to be disappointed by anything made by Schiit, and I can't imagine a scenario where I would be.  It's just great gear. I'm not an audio expert and I don't know why these components sound the way they do.  I just know what sounds good to my ears, and the Mjolnir/Gungnir combo does it for me.  All in all, I'm a very happy Schiit owner.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

radioking59 said:


> You couldn't pay me to go back to a CD player. Computer playback is the way to go if you ask me. I recently got all my SACDs ripped with a PS3 and have discs out of my life for good. I say good riddance!


 

  is there a guide on how to do this?


----------



## MattTCG

Google and you tube are your friend.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Google and you tube are your friend.


 

 i'm about computer/techno/geeked out, just spent the last 1-2 hours "untangling" the wife's numerous email, facebook cell phone accounts !!
 time for some music !


----------



## MattTCG

I'm doing the same Jay. PC's problems rectified...Matt's problems are now being addressed and have my full attention.


----------



## Radioking59

nic rhodes said:


> is there a guide on how to do this?




http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-your-ps3-part-2-a-7495/

The biggest problem is finding a PS3 with the right firmware (3.55 or below).


----------



## Nic Rhodes

radioking59 said:


> http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-your-ps3-part-2-a-7495/
> 
> The biggest problem is finding a PS3 with the right firmware (3.55 or below).


 

 Thanks Radioking, I had done the searches but had come up with a mountain of hits, many of which seemed to have little relevance. I had found the thread you have linked to, it is good to know it is the one I need to look at further rather wasting my time with many other google hits. PS3  of the right technical ability shouldn't be an issue  was my first Region A player but has not been on for years now, think it probably has firmware of under 3. It looks like it may be worth doing as I have all the hardware, software and could then treat myself to a Schiit Loki


----------



## mumstead

delfin9299 said:


> I've been lurking on these boards for quite a while, I have gained a lot of useful knowledge from many different users and I was led in the direction of the Schiit brand.  Maybe it was their name, their reputation, their great website... Whatever it was, I was intrigued. I started out with the Bifrost/Asgard 1 combo and I knew right then I was on to something special.  My original headphones were the Denon D5000s and at first, I was sure that nothing could top what I already had........
> 
> 
> How wrong I was.
> ...


 
 Your journey is nearly the same as mine. I started with the Denon D5000s without an amp and thought that I had reached my endgame. After a while I started reading about DACs so I went through a bunch of cheap ones finally ending up with a Emotiva XDA-1. Then Schiit released the Asgard. Well, I had to find out what headphone amplification was all about so I bought one and again thought that this was about as good as it could get. Here I am many upgrades and eBay sales later with an Emotiva DC-1, a very recently purchased Mjolnir, and LCD-2s. The Mjolnir really takes the LCD-2s to a new level and I couldn't be happier. I never thought that I would own gear that makes music sound this good. I will never make the mistake again of thinking that I have reached my endgame though. I've only had my LCD-2s about a month and a half and I have started wondering just how much better LCD-3s might sound...


----------



## Tman5293

I recently picked up a Bifrost with the Uber upgrade. Here's a photo of it with my Lyr:


----------



## vincent215

great picture Tman5293


----------



## mumstead

Beautiful picture. It could be used in a Schiit ad.


----------



## Tman5293

vincent215 said:


> great picture Tman5293


 
  
  


mumstead said:


> Beautiful picture. It could be used in a Schiit ad.


 
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## sceleratus

Schiit gear is very photogenic indeed.


----------



## Tman5293

sceleratus said:


> Schiit gear is very photogenic indeed.


 
  
 Beautiful shots! Which camera did you use to take those?


----------



## sceleratus

Nikon D3s with a 106 mm Macro lens


----------



## Amictus

dgriffter said:


> I was in a similar position re: Valhalla vs Lyr (plus others, such as Woo, Bottlehead, etc.). I opted for a Lyr for a) ubiquity, b) tube rolling options, c) possible ortho choice down the road and d) resale price, in case I wasn't happy. Oh, and I am totally electronics-blind, so Bottlehead was pretty much out the question.
> 
> Whilst I have never heard a Valhalla, one might argue that tube selection might have a whole bunch to do with timbre and soundstage, though I'll be honest with you, I am not 100% sure what timbre actually is, although I imagine it to be similar to tone?
> 
> Has anyone heard both Valhalla and Lyr with same chain who cares to comment?


 

 Just re 'timbre'. "If you gotta ask, you ain't got it". Now that response is attributed to three greats, but the earliest is Fats Waller, in response to the question, "What is swing?". I suspect you have timbre, though! It's the echtythingyness of a sound, when a flute sounds like a flute, a voice like a voice, when all the scraping, blowing, howling, breathing mystery of the musical sound hits you not just as pitch and rhythm data, but as the living thing itself, when you can hear the throat of the singer, the rosin on the bow of the string player and every overtone going, not loosely suggested  in the acoustic space but deeply embedded in the sound itself, with every juicy, tingling, vibrant perfection and imperfection uttered, played or heard as itself. That's timbre IMHO, and headphones are where you bet it best IMVVVHO. Sure, you've got it. That's why you are here.


----------



## Tman5293

Here's another one:


----------



## pdrm360

umustbkidn said:


> Yes, I agreed. And yes, Amperex orange globes are awesome.




  
 WOW!  LOVE THIS!


----------



## pdrm360

sceleratus said:


> Schiit gear is very photogenic indeed.


 
  
  


tman5293 said:


> Here's another one:


 
  
 Very Beautiful!


----------



## dgriffter

amictus said:


> Just re 'timbre'. "If you gotta ask, you ain't got it". Now that response is attributed to three greats, but the earliest is Fats Waller, in response to the question, "What is swing?". I suspect you have timbre, though! It's the echtythingyness of a sound, when a flute sounds like a flute, a voice like a voice, when all the scraping, blowing, howling, breathing mystery of the musical sound hits you not just as pitch and rhythm data, but as the living thing itself, when you can hear the throat of the singer, the rosin on the bow of the string player and every overtone going, not loosely suggested  in the acoustic space but deeply embedded in the sound itself, with every juicy, tingling, vibrant perfection and imperfection uttered, played or heard as itself. That's timbre IMHO, and headphones are where you bet it best IMVVVHO. Sure, you've got it. That's why you are here.


 
  
 Thank you for that very erudite response


----------



## Amictus

dgriffter said:


> Thank you for that very erudite response


 

 Sorry to seem erudite. I'll go and stand in the corner and think about what I have done.


----------



## dgriffter

amictus said:


> Sorry to seem erudite. I'll go and stand in the corner and think about what I have done.


----------



## noobandroid

life has tougher choices than deciding which schiit to go for next with a very constrained budget  my magni will have to stay longer i guess


----------



## dgriffter

Lyr gives you the added bonus of tube rolling. Unfortunately, it gives the added cash burden of being skint for about 6 months, as you scour eBay for everything you have read about in the tube rolling threads.


----------



## Solarium

I'm thinking of upgrading to a Schiit amp with a pre-out option to connect to my desktop speakers. I see that the Asgard 2 states that it has a preamp output connection, what about asgard 1 or the Lyr?


----------



## Rem0o

solarium said:


> I'm thinking of upgrading to a Schiit amp with a pre-out option to connect to my desktop speakers. I see that the Asgard 2 states that it has a preamp output connection, what about asgard 1 or the Lyr?


 
 Lyr and Asgard 2 (not the first one) have preamp outs.


----------



## Amictus

dgriffter said:


> Lyr gives you the added bonus of tube rolling. Unfortunately, it gives the added cash burden of being skint for about 6 months, as you scour eBay for everything you have read about in the tube rolling threads.


 

 This man never said a truer word. I have three pairs of tubes coming a week after getting the Lyr. Another head-fier has confessed to amassing a tube supply before getting a Lyr. The next stage of madness is only buying the best tubes and then not using them for fear of wearing them out. Help!
  
 And I've got it bad - the memory has come back to me of the valves glowing happily in the family radiogram in the 1950s, There is nothing left between me and a credit card exhausted by tubes...is this a recognized addiction?


----------



## jaywillin

amictus said:


> This man never said a truer word. I have three pairs of tubes coming a week after getting the Lyr. Another head-fier has confessed to amassing a tube supply before getting a Lyr. The next stage of madness is only buying the best tubes and then not using them for fear of wearing them out. Help!
> 
> And I've got it bad - the memory has come back to me of the valves glowing happily in the family radiogram in the 1950s, There is nothing left between me and a credit card exhausted by tubes.*..is this a recognized addiction?*


 
 well, i have all the symptoms !


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> This man never said a truer word. I have three pairs of tubes coming a week after getting the Lyr. Another head-fier has confessed to amassing a tube supply before getting a Lyr. The next stage of madness is only buying the best tubes and then not using them for fear of wearing them out. Help!
> 
> And I've got it bad - the memory has come back to me of the valves glowing happily in the family radiogram in the 1950s, There is nothing left between me and a credit card exhausted by tubes...is this a recognized addiction?




Tubeitis is the name of the addiction . I cured myself by getting the Mjolnir !


----------



## gefski

The wallet worries of you headphone amp tube rollers are hilarious. Try it with speaker amps-- NOS rectifiers and pairs of input tubes (but you need at least three matched in case one fails), matched quads of power tubes (but you need to buy a matched sextet in case one fails), then you still "hope" you like the tubes you're buying. It's a rough deal.


----------



## UmustBKidn

gefski said:


> ...
> 
> The wallet worries of you headphone amp tube rollers are hilarious. Try it with speaker amps--


 
  
 What is this thing you speak of, Speaker Amps?


----------



## Amictus

umustbkidn said:


> What is this thing you speak of, Speaker Amps?


I want six aleady.


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> I want six aleady.


 
 MattTCG has like eleven Pioneer vintage speaker amps. You might want to ask him


----------



## dgriffter

umustbkidn said:


> What is this thing you speak of, Speaker Amps?


 
 blah blah blah *hand over ears* cannot hear you


----------



## MattTCG

kothganesh said:


> MattTCG has like eleven Pioneer vintage speaker amps. You might want to ask him


 
  
 I try to sell a few as I get them back into working order. Of course I just go out and buy more at that point. Right now I have only three. 
  


  
  
 Have not photographed the 1050 much as it's still being restored.


----------



## gefski

umustbkidn said:


> What is this thing you speak of, Speaker Amps?




Amplifiers for boxes which, when placed in a room, emit sound that may closely resemble music, while at the same time creating painful room interaction resonances.

Thankfully, the "rooms" our headphones play in don't have this problem.


----------



## sceleratus

matttcg said:


> I try to sell a few as I get them back into working order. Of course I just go out and buy more at that point. Right now I have only three.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Matt.
  
 I'm speechless.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Why thank you sir!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That pic of the 1280 doesn't do it justice. It's a stunning piece of gear in person. To me, these old receivers just seem to have a soul to them. Man, do they make some beautiful music. And will drive anything on the planet including the he-6 with aplomb.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> ^^ Why thank you sir!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 so i should have kept that (i forget the model#) mid 70's pioneer i got out of a cabin in helen that was being sold  ??
 i gave it to somebody when i moved over here


----------



## MattTCG

jaywillin said:


> so i should have kept that (i forget the model#) mid 70's pioneer i got out of a cabin in helen that was being sold  ??
> i gave it to somebody when i moved over here


 
  
 Um..yeah!! There are times (often) when one of my pioneers will beat out the best hp amp that I own or have owned...especially when it comes to ortho dynamic hp's. The pairing between the two can be sublime.


----------



## bearFNF

gefski said:


> Amplifiers for boxes which, when placed in a room, emit sound that may closely resemble music, while at the same time creating painful room interaction resonances.
> 
> Thankfully, *the "rooms" our headphones play in *don't have this problem.


 
 We just have to deal with the echo in some cases...


----------



## Tman5293




----------



## pdrm360

tman5293 said:


>


 
  
 wow, such a beautiful picture!


----------



## UmustBKidn

tman5293 said:


>


----------



## utee05

For those with a modi+magni combo, anyone pair this with some HE-400? I just got the HE-400 and a magni amp and have been thinking of getting the modi dac to pair with it. Is the lack of gain control cause any problems or does it just sound great out of the box without the need of tinkering?


----------



## zackzack

tman5293 said:


>


 
 Beautifully retro


----------



## Tman5293

umustbkidn said:


>


 
  
  


pdrm360 said:


> wow, such a beautiful picture!


 
  
  


zackzack said:


> Beautifully retro


 
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## Mingus Ah Um

utee05 said:


> For those with a modi+magni combo, anyone pair this with some HE-400? I just got the HE-400 and a magni amp and have been thinking of getting the modi dac to pair with it. Is the lack of gain control cause any problems or does it just sound great out of the box without the need of tinkering?


 
 I received the HE-400 and magni for Christmas and just received the modi about a week and a half ago.  The modi+magni isn't my primary setup but I've used it with my 400's for probably 10 hours and I think the pairing works great.  I was curious about the sound with no gain control but I haven't found this to be an issue at all.  I think you'll be happy pairing the modi with that setup.


----------



## utee05

mingus ah um said:


> I received the HE-400 and magni for Christmas and just received the modi about a week and a half ago.  The modi+magni isn't my primary setup but I've used it with my 400's for probably 10 hours and I think the pairing works great.  I was curious about the sound with no gain control but I haven't found this to be an issue at all.  I think you'll be happy pairing the modi with that setup.


 
 Thanks. I'll be ordering the modi this week. Looking forward to my new setup.


----------



## gsr108

Is there any use in keeping the Asgard 2 when you have a Lyr?  I have a bifrost uber and Asgard 2 stack.  Have a Lyr coming in 2 days.  Still barely within my 15 day return window.  Wondering if I should keep all three.  Have LCD 2.2, HD650, JH16 FP.  Would use the Lyr mostly for music and have the Asgard 2 for my IEM's and whenever I watch movies or play games. 
  
 Also I'm thinking of using this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00609ZH12/ref=s9_simh_gw_p422_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0069W0YSS8EP37M7GTS2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846 to raise the space between the components.  Think I can use them to make a triple stack?


----------



## roguegeek

Where's the best place to grab some Amperex Orange Globes for the Lyr?


----------



## kothganesh

roguegeek said:


> Where's the best place to grab some Amperex Orange Globes for the Lyr?



Contact mercedesman on eBay. Great product and great service


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Where's the best place to grab some Amperex Orange Globes for the Lyr?


 
  
 Also, brian2a3 on eBay. He's awesome.


----------



## jexby

gsr108 said:


> Is there any use in keeping the Asgard 2 when you have a Lyr?  I have a bifrost uber and Asgard 2 stack.  Have a Lyr coming in 2 days.  Still barely within my 15 day return window.  Wondering if I should keep all three.  Have LCD 2.2, HD650, JH16 FP.  Would use the Lyr mostly for music and have the Asgard 2 for my IEM's and whenever I watch movies or play games.
> 
> Also I'm thinking of using this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00609ZH12/ref=s9_simh_gw_p422_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0069W0YSS8EP37M7GTS2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846 to raise the space between the components.  Think I can use them to make a triple stack?


 
  
 wow, overlap in almost all areas except my headphones  = HD600, HE-500, UM3X.
  
 easiest answer first:  love my small pangea feet between Uber and Lyr, and used also with Uber + A2.
 the flat plastic discs they recommend you put between feet and "wood desk surface" IIRC may make the bottom unit (Uber) a tad slippery a bit if pushed around.
 these gave Lyr or A2 more air space / breathing room to dissipate heat.
  
 A2 sell or keep decision-  always a tough call what to keep around as a "2nd Amp" as it were eh?
 I ended up selling the A2 because at the time was moving through a plethora of other SS amps for an office location or mobile situation.  (DACport, DACmini CX, CEntrance M8)
 so the A2 was just a "bit redundant" for my use case, no fault of A2 sound quality at all.
  
 now with a Vali at office, I don't miss the A2 as much as when it first left my hands.


----------



## HiVLTAGE

Can anyone help with finding a USB cable for the Modi? I don't feel like paying $20 for the PYST


----------



## Saraguie

hivltage said:


> Can anyone help with finding a USB cable for the Modi? I don't feel like paying $20 for the PYST


 
 5 minutes ago I bought this.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CVTU88/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Tuco1965

Nothing wrong with Monoprice cables either.


----------



## HiVLTAGE

saraguie said:


> 5 minutes ago I bought this.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CVTU88/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## roguegeek

I think this may be more of a general question, but it releates to the Lyr. When I'm looking at tubes purchasing tubes for the Lyr (whether through ebay or whatever), what do the ratings mean? I'm seeing things like 70/80 and 90/80. Need some help and some quick Google searches are coming up with nothing.


----------



## T Bone

I recently became a Schiit head.  I just took delivery of an "Überfrost" DAC and a Valhalla.  My Sennheiser HD 650's haven't arrived yet so I ran out to BestBuy and picked up a pair of Sennheiser HD 558's to "audition" until the UPS guys brings my last package  (_On a good day I'm just impatient_) 
  
 I thought I'd share my "out of the box" impressions here.
  
 Installing the USB drivers was a bit of a pain.  The unzipped driver files needed to be "decrypted" in windows explorer before they would install correctly.  Not difficult to do, but certainly not intuitive.  I hit the Schiit site - read the "Windows DAC Setup" guide and was on the right track in minutes.  
  
 Eager to test my setup (albeit with temporary headphones), I queued up a bunch of test tracks, poured a glass of wine and settled in for a listening session.
  
 Without anything playing on the PC I donned the headphones to listen for any audible hum.  Right away, I had a nasty crackle - rerouting the USB cable fixed that problem.
  
 Time for some tunes finally!
  
 .....I couldn't have been more disappointed in the performance of the HD 558!  In a nutshell, it sounded like a someone threw a wet towel over the drum kits.  The low end was just mush.  My listening session lasted about an hour before I called it a night.  
 I expect that as the amp / tubes break in performance will improve.   ...but nothing is going to fix those phones!  I expect (pray) that the HD 650's will be a much better match for the "frosty valhalla".
 The HD 558's are on their way back to the store tomorrow.  That's what being impatient gets you.
  
 On a positive note.  I queued up Lana Del Rey's "Summertime Sadness" in iTunes.  It sounded "ok".  I asked iTunes to generate a lossless version of the track and then played the two versions back to back.  What a difference!  (no thanks to the HD 558's)   I was pleasantly surprised that the differences in resolution / encoding were readily apparent to my rank amateur ears.  I think (hope) the different headphones will make a significant difference.
  
 I am looking forward to try trying this setup with the HD 650s.


----------



## Radioking59

t bone said:


> .....I couldn't have been more disappointed in the performance of the HD 558!  In a nutshell, it sounded like a someone threw a wet towel over the drum kits.  The low end was just mush.  My listening session lasted about an hour before I called it a night.
> I expect that as the amp / tubes break in performance will improve.   ...but nothing is going to fix those phones!  I expect (pray) that the HD 650's will be a much better match for the "frosty valhalla".
> The HD 558's are on their way back to the store tomorrow.  That's what being impatient gets you.




With the HD558 the problem isn't the phones, it's the amp. The Valhalla and any OTL amp work well with high impedance headphones. With low impedance headphones the sound quality suffers greatly. The HD558 is 50 ohms, while the HD600/650 are 300 ohms. The 558 will probably sound better out of your phone than the Valhalla.


----------



## T Bone

radioking59 said:


> With the HD558 the problem isn't the phones, it's the amp. The Valhalla and any OTL amp work well with high impedance headphones. With low impedance headphones the sound quality suffers greatly. The HD558 is 50 ohms, while the HD600/650 are 300 ohms. The 558 will probably sound better out of your phone than the Valhalla.



Thanks for explaining the reason those phones don't pair well with my Valhalla. It's reassuring to know the facts behind the subjective. I learned an important lesson. You can read about it - but hearing it in person gives it an entirely different perspective.
My 650s should be here before the weekend. I'll try to exercise a little more patience


----------



## gefski

t bone said:


> Thanks for explaining the reason those phones don't pair well with my Valhalla. It's reassuring to know the facts behind the subjective.
> My 650s should be here before the weekend. I'll try to exercise a little more patience




Though Valhalla's "ideal" load is high impedance cans, Schiit clearly indicates it's fine for 32-600 ohms.

Had mine for two years. It's been driving Grado 325/RS1i, Beyerdynamic DT880/T90, and Senn 600/650. Transparency, texture, timbre, speed, dynamics, air & space, and articulate bass in all cases, including the 32 ohm Grados.

Enjoy! Your new setup should be terrific!


----------



## HiVLTAGE

t bone said:


> I recently became a Schiit head.  I just took delivery of an "Überfrost" DAC and a Valhalla.  My Sennheiser HD 650's haven't arrived yet so I ran out to BestBuy and picked up a pair of Sennheiser HD 558's to "audition" until the UPS guys brings my last package  (_On a good day I'm just impatient_)
> 
> I thought I'd share my "out of the box" impressions here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've tried 558's with the Magni, and it is a great combination. No clue why you decided to use 558's with the Valhalla.


----------



## T Bone

hivltage said:


> I've tried 558's with the Magni, and it is a great combination. No clue why you decided to use 558's with the Valhalla


 
 I grabbed a pair of 558's off the shelf of my local Best Buy because my 650's haven't shipped yet.  The 558's were supposed to be temporary while I broke in my new DAC/Amp.  
 Even at 45, I'm still like a little kid who can't wait to play with his Christmas presents.  (proof that men never grow up, we just get older - and our toys get more expensive)


----------



## HiVLTAGE

t bone said:


> I grabbed a pair of 558's off the shelf of my local Best Buy because my 650's haven't shipped yet.  The 558's were supposed to be temporary while I broke in my new DAC/Amp.
> Even at 45, I'm still like a little kid who can't wait to play with his Christmas presents.  (proof that men never grow up, we just get older - and our toys get more expensive)


 
  
 I completely understand. It's always hard having to wait for new cans.
  
 When those 650's come in though, you'll be in audio bliss


----------



## HiFi1972

The only Schiit amp I own currently is the Valhalla. It makes my HD650s sound amazing. I then plugged in my Grado 80i's and wasn't as impressed; they sound better (punchier/tighter lows) with my CSG Cmoy. What Schiit amp would work better with the lower end Grados?


----------



## roguegeek

hifi1972 said:


> The only Schiit amp I own currently is the Valhalla. It makes my HD650s sound amazing. I then plugged in my Grado 80i's and wasn't as impressed; they sound better (punchier/tighter lows) with my CSG Cmoy. What Schiit amp would work better with the lower end Grados?


 
 Take a shot on the Vali. Risk is so low on that thing. I'm thinking about picking one up even though I have absolutely no need for one.


----------



## HiVLTAGE

hifi1972 said:


> The only Schiit amp I own currently is the Valhalla. It makes my HD650s sound amazing. I then plugged in my Grado 80i's and wasn't as impressed; they sound better (punchier/tighter lows) with my CSG Cmoy. What Schiit amp would work better with the lower end Grados?


 
  
 The Magni would probably be a good fit. It's probably the only Schiit amp that pairs well with lower impedance headphones.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

hivltage said:


> The Magni would probably be a good fit. It's probably the only Schiit amp that pairs well with lower impedance headphones.


 
  
 As well as Asgard 2, Lyr, and Mjolnir...


----------



## HiVLTAGE

jason stoddard said:


> As well as Asgard 2, Lyr, and Mjolnir...


 
  
 They probably work too of course. I don't know anybody that will drop $750 to power some Grado's


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

hivltage said:


> They probably work too of course. I don't know anybody that will drop $750 to power some Grado's :blink:




!?! You must be new here


----------



## jaywillin

hivltage said:


> They probably work too of course. I don't know anybody that will drop $750 to power some Grado's


 

 i have grado's, and i've had, the magni, and asgard2, i have the vali, the lyr and the mjo, i regularly use(d) the rs1i, and gs1000i with all the schiit amps i have, and had (except the mjo) they all worked, and sounded just fine ! hmmmm, i wonder about having the gs converted to balanced ????


----------



## jaywillin

hivltage said:


> They probably work too of course. I don't know anybody that will drop $750 to power some Grado's


 

 me !!


----------



## HiVLTAGE

dailydoseofdaly said:


> !?! You must be new here


 
  
  
 I am new 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





jaywillin said:


> me !!


 
  
 Guess I've seen everything now


----------



## jaywillin

hivltage said:


> I am new
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 noooooooooooo, everyday there will more, and more ! lol


----------



## T Bone

I needed a little more space in my home office - so I ran down to the local Lowes and grabbed some material to build a tiny shelf in the corner of my workspace.  Just enough space for my Bifrost & Valhalla.
 I thought I'd share a few pix.  I think this will work out just fine for my (_current_) needs.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now I can get back to work - make some more $$$ - buy some more gear.


----------



## AladdinSane

hivltage said:


> They probably work too of course. I don't know anybody that will drop $750 to power some Grado's


 
 Not directed at you HiVLTGE but possibly the funniest thing I've read in my short tenure here. People will spend that much on a power cable to power their exotic amp connected by yet another $750 cable to their $1,500 DAC connected by...well, you get the picture. And that's the cheap stuff.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jason stoddard said:


> As well as Asgard 2, Lyr, and Mjolnir...


 
  
 If I had my way, I'd own one of each.
  
 Maybe when I stop paying child support...


----------



## UmustBKidn

t bone said:


> I needed a little more space in my home office - so I ran down to the local Lowes and grabbed some material to build a tiny shelf in the corner of my workspace.  Just enough space for my Bifrost & Valhalla.
> I thought I'd share a few pix.  I think this will work out just fine for my (_current_) needs.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## neoresin

Man. Guys. Dudes. Dudettes.
  
 Schiit is just so good.
  
 The Gungnir. Genius. It makes every amp I throw at it phenomenally better. Having owned the Bifrost, then making it Über, then switching up to the Gungnir... The timing resolved! The bass impact improved! And the TEXTURE. Guitars sound like guitars! The decay of sound is awesome! Schiit's got the right weight! I didn't know I was missing something until I got it. I didn't know it was my SOURCE that needed improving until I got the Gung. Bravo Jason and team!
  
 It's really the little things in life that matter. You made it TOO good.  Can't wait for Yggy.


----------



## Koolpep

jason stoddard said:


> As well as Asgard 2, Lyr, and Mjolnir...




It's such a treat that the cofounder of Schiit participates here. Thanks, Jason.

Just received my modi today, feeds the Asgard in the office. Listening to my Valhalla at home at the moment. You guys really gave me so much pleasure listening to my music, can't thank you enough.

Cheers,
K


----------



## roguegeek

koolpep said:


> It's such a treat that the cofounder of Schiit participates here. Thanks, Jason.
> 
> Just received my modi today, feeds the Asgard in the office. Listening to my Valhalla at home at the moment. You guys really gave me so much pleasure listening to my music, can't thank you enough.
> 
> ...


 
 Passion accounts for a lot, in my book.


----------



## SixthFall

Just got them in the other day


----------



## roguegeek

sixthfall said:


> Just got them in the other day


 
 Ooo! The SRH940 is one of my favorite closed cans of all time (so incredibly underrated), but I haven't had any time to bring them home from work and play with them through my stack. Very interested in hearing what you think of the combo.


----------



## SixthFall

roguegeek said:


> Ooo! The SRH940 is one of my favorite closed cans of all time (so incredibly underrated), but I haven't had any time to bring them home from work and play with them through my stack. Very interested in hearing what you think of the combo.


 
 I agree 110% I have heard many high end, super expensive set ups, and the 940 is right up there in my books. This stack is quite detailed and clean, so it really accentuates what the shures do well, detail, without being overly clinical. Great combo i think, only downside is that the magni is a little too high gain, but its perfectly workable.


----------



## roguegeek

sixthfall said:


> I agree 110% I have heard many high end, super expensive set ups, and the 940 is right up there in my books. This stack is quite detailed and clean, so it really accentuates what the shures do well, detail, without being overly clinical. Great combo i think, only downside is that the magni is a little too high gain, but its perfectly workable.


 
 On paper, the Magni is already a bright amp and the 940 is most definitely a bright can, so it seems they wouldn't pair too nicely together, but I'm excited to hear they work. Never had a want to even try it, but I probably will this weekend now. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## jaywillin

little schiit(vali) medium schiit, and large schiit !!


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice Schiit there!


----------



## T Bone

jaywillin said:


> little schiit(vali) medium schiit, and large schiit !!


 
 You've got a whole lotta Schiit!


----------



## roguegeek

You know how you see an app on the app store and you're like, "Well crap, it's only $.99. Might as well try it and see what happens." That's how I'm feeling about the Vali right now. I have no use for it, but Schiit still gives me no reason to not buy it.


----------



## jaywillin

roguegeek said:


> You know how you see an app on the app store and you're like, "Well crap, it's only $.99. Might as well try it and see what happens." That's how I'm feeling about the Vali right now. I have no use for it, but Schiit still gives me no reason to not buy it.


 

 that's exactly what i said, little did i know how'd i be amazed


----------



## roguegeek

Maybe someone can answer this here. Why is the Vali $119 direct from Schiit, but $129 on Amazon which is still direct from Schiit?


----------



## jeremy205100

roguegeek said:


> Maybe someone can answer this here. Why is the Vali $119 direct from Schiit, but $129 on Amazon which is still direct from Schiit?


 
 Probably because Amazon charges third party sellers fees. Schiit is probably passing these fees onto consumers.


----------



## roguegeek

This makes sense. I just sold something through Amazon. Never again! Almost 11% taken out of the sale AND my money won't be transferred over for 21 day. Just ridiculous!


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Maybe someone can answer this here. Why is the Vali $119 direct from Schiit, but $129 on Amazon which is still direct from Schiit?


 
  
 Because it comes with the Amazon free prime shipping.


----------



## jaywillin

roguegeek said:


> This makes sense. I just sold something through Amazon. Never again! Almost 11% taken out of the sale AND my money won't be transferred over for 21 day. Just ridiculous!


 
 Quote:


roguegeek said:


> Maybe someone can answer this here. Why is the Vali $119 direct from Schiit, but $129 on Amazon which is still direct from Schiit?


 
 that, and its "prime" meaning the vali is already sitting in one of amazon's facilities, and will get to you buyers door in 2 days


----------



## saedrin

Just ordered a Vali/Modi combo for my new ATH-A900X setup on my PC. Super excited!


----------



## HiVLTAGE

saedrin said:


> Just ordered a Vali/Modi combo for my new ATH-A900X setup on my PC. Super excited!


 
  
 You're going to love it! I love my Magni/Modi combo


----------



## MonoMood

I just got my Modi to complement my Vali that I bought a few weeks ago. This Schiit is absolutely fantastic~


----------



## UmustBKidn

jaywillin said:


> little schiit(vali) medium schiit, and large schiit !!


 
  
 Clearly, Schiit comes in all sizes.


----------



## UmustBKidn

monomood said:


> I just got my Modi to complement my Vali that I bought a few weeks ago. This Schiit is absolutely fantastic~


 
  
 Yes. Absolutely.
  
 For what it's worth, in my opinion, the Modi does not get nearly the attention it deserves. My god, it's a $99 dollar masterpiece. Yeah, you can get better DAC's, but you'll spend a whole lot more than $99 clams. Yeah, I want a Bifrost Uber someday. But that's $520 bucks, which is a whole lot harder to justify, especially when you're an Old Guy (tm) like me (with old, degraded hearing too). I honestly hope my hearing isn't bad enough so I can't hear the difference, but I'm waiting until I get to a meet someday to be sure (the 2014 SoCal HeadFi meet in particular).
  
 Yes, I know all the arguments about upgrading source components. But for $99 bucks, if the Modi will get you 90% of the way to audio nirvana, then there just isn't any excuse not to have one. Or two.


----------



## jaywillin

umustbkidn said:


> Yes. Absolutely.
> 
> For what it's worth, in my opinion, the Modi does not get nearly the attention it deserves. My god, it's a $99 dollar masterpiece. Yeah, you can get better DAC's, but you'll spend a whole lot more than $99 clams. Yeah, I want a Bifrost Uber someday. But that's $520 bucks, which is a whole lot harder to justify, especially when you're an Old Guy (tm) like me (with old, degraded hearing too). I honestly hope my hearing isn't bad enough so I can't hear the difference, but I'm waiting until I get to a meet someday to be sure (the 2014 SoCal HeadFi meet in particular).
> 
> Yes, I know all the arguments about upgrading source components. But for $99 bucks, if the Modi will get you 90% of the way to audio nirvana, then there just isn't any excuse not to have one. Or two.


 

 i'm and old guy myself, not sure how good/bad my hearing is, but the difference in the modi and the uberfrost is pretty dramatic to me, more dramatic than the difference between the uberfrost and the wadia 121 i have now


----------



## UmustBKidn

jaywillin said:


> i'm and old guy myself, not sure how good/bad my hearing is, but the difference in the modi and the uberfrost is pretty dramatic to me, more dramatic than the difference between the uberfrost and the wadia 121 i have now


 
  
 Yes. I have heard the same from multiple sources, so I tend to believe that to be the case. But even if it is dramatic to you, I have different ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And mine have been through some rough times.
  
 I spent many years working in a noisy test lab with many fans in it, some as close as a foot away from my ears. For 8+ hours a day. When I questioned the noise level of the fans, the company brought in a sound pressure level meter to measure the sound level. They found that it was several dB below the legal limit. So they did nothing.
  
 All they offered me were those annoying little foam ear plugs. Those little things did nothing but irritate my ears. Because I was young I suppose, I foolishly decided that because the noise level was below the legal limit, that it would not damage my hearing. I was wrong.
  
 After I left the company, I had occasion to measure my hearing by an audiologist. They found that I had a distinct hearing loss in the upper midrange region of something like 8 dB. I can only conclude that 14+ years of exposure to this noise, damaged my hearing permanently.
  
 I work for a different company now. Sometimes I have to spend long hours in a noisy test lab with equally loud cooling fans. But now, I bring in some very nice Husqvarna protective headphones (they don't permit me to have an ipod with music). They are dead quiet and go a long way to protect the hearing I have left. I have measured my hearing response and I can only hear up to 14 kHz (using my best gear). So I tend to be skeptical when opting to drop large dollars on gear that might only offer marginal improvements.


----------



## GoldfishX

I thought I had upgraded my Magni to a better headphone amplifier (Cary Nighthawk), but for $99, the Magni destroys the Nighthawk (retail $1200) when paired with the Mad Dogs (this is the only pairing I've tried with the Nighthawk, so maybe it just isn't good with orthos). More power, more open sound. The highs are a little bright, but it really does tame the bass and keeps it out of the midrange and I can basically listen all day (I did a full 8 hour session the other day). On the Nighthawk, the mids were swallowed up by the bass and the sound wasn't nearly as open.
  
 Good Schiit! Magni might be dirt cheap and looks like a Schiit amp given the "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" treatment (it sits on top of my Dac-It for a nice office stack), but that thing is serious.
  
 Any opinions on the Asgard 2 with either Mad Dogs or Alpha Dogs? Mad Dogs are really lousy if not properly amped. After hearing the Mad Dogs on the Magni, I'm much less inclined to upgrade them to Alpha Dogs because the bass is so fun and unobtrusive.


----------



## Erukian

umustbkidn said:


> Yes. I have heard the same from multiple sources, so I tend to believe that to be the case. But even if it is dramatic to you, I have different ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's good to know. I work in a noisy datacenter and I picked up a set of Bose QC20i out of convenience since it cuts out 90% of background noise and I hate having IEM's inside my ear canals. Now to see if I can justify expensing these at work.


----------



## jaywillin

umustbkidn said:


> Yes. I have heard the same from multiple sources, so I tend to believe that to be the case. But even if it is dramatic to you, I have different ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 yeah, our ears are all different for sure
 i guess i've been pretty fortunate, i did work in a bar with live music for a a while while in my early 20's
 many mornings after the night before, still couldn't hear too good ! lol, but, it wasn't over many years,
 less than two years, and at one point, especially with the louder bands, ear plugs were used
 i haven't been tested in a while to any special degree, but i seem to hear ok, though i wouldn't say great


----------



## SixthFall

roguegeek said:


> On paper, the Magni is already a bright amp and the 940 is most definitely a bright can, so it seems they wouldn't pair too nicely together, but I'm excited to hear they work. Never had a want to even try it, but I probably will this weekend now. Thanks for the feedback.


 
 Let us know what you think!


----------



## huberd

I have one too. I have compared it to other DAC's and I am extremely happy with mine.


----------



## Mrstick89

Hey guys so I just received my Asgard 2 tonight.  WOW all I can say is how underwhelming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm actually beginning to wonder if my unit is damaged.
  
 My setup: Sounder blaster Z/Asgard 2/DT990 Pro 250ohm. Running a 3.5mm Y adapter off my Z(just like I did with my V-Can)
  
 After much anticipation I plugged in my new Schiit and began cooking dinner to let it warm up. Turned on my favorite high res Zeds Dead album (off the wall house/dubstep/hip-hop) I was severely disappointed with the sound. The power is there but its just lacking the exciting highs and crunchy punchy lows I witnessed with my Musical Fidelity V-Can II.
 I gave this amp to my dad and really have missed it everyday that its been gone.
  
 With my V-Can I felt as if I can crank that thing as loud as my ears can take. As an aircraft mechanic my hearing isn't that great these days, so it was LOUD and the bass never began to distort. With my AS2 I cannot reach an exciting listening level before the sound seems to clash together into a muddy mess.
  
 Did I strike gold with my V-Can/Beyer combo? Is my Asgard 2 severely outperforming my Sound blaster Z? User error, cannot find the proper volume levels for my Z/Media player/AMP Gain?
 Anything above 65% volume and I hear a VERY noticeable buzzing/other odd interference noise. I'd still consider myself a newbie and any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## bearFNF

mrstick89 said:


> Hey guys so I just received my Asgard 2 tonight.  WOW all I can say is how underwhelming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A few basic questions:
 What gain setting are you using with Asgard 2? Switch on the back I would try both hi and low once the other questions have been sorted. 
 Are you using the line level out of the SB card or the HO out?  Should be using "line out 1 jack" from the card.  (next to the HO out, but not the mic which is the first one.)
 What volume level is the computer software set at?  Should be max on the PC/media player and control the volume with the Asgard 2.
 What software are you using?
 What playback setting are you using? WASAPI (event), Direct Sound, etc??


----------



## MrPanda

How do you feel about the Schiit with the AKG's?  Too much power, or just right?
 Is the level of tube noise a problem?  I'm thinking of getting a Lyr...'


----------



## GoldfishX

mrstick89 said:


> Hey guys so I just received my Asgard 2 tonight.  WOW all I can say is how underwhelming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My guess is you need to put a DAC in there, between the Sound Blaster and the Asgard. Should make a world of difference.
  
 I went through the same thing, trying to go computer/cd player to amp and the sound was awful. Flat, 2D, boring. Adding the Dac-It to my chain is when I started getting that amazing, big 3D soundstage.


----------



## bearFNF

goldfishx said:


> My guess is you need to put a DAC in there, between the Sound Blaster and the Asgard. Should make a world of difference.
> 
> I went through the same thing, trying to go computer/cd player to amp and the sound was awful. Flat, 2D, boring. Adding the Dac-It to my chain is when I started getting that amazing, big 3D soundstage.


 

 I thought the same thing but did not want to go there until we knew more about the setup...


----------



## Mrstick89

I tried both hi and low at different settings. Line out 1 jack is being used. I tried every combination I could think of between the media player/Z out and Asgard volume control. I'm still having a hard time deciding what mix sounds the best, I guess it all sounds relative. I'm using media monkey, I'm not 100% sure what you mean by playback setting but in the Z control panel its set to stereo.


----------



## Mrstick89

goldfishx said:


> My guess is you need to put a DAC in there, between the Sound Blaster and the Asgard. Should make a world of difference.
> 
> I went through the same thing, trying to go computer/cd player to amp and the sound was awful. Flat, 2D, boring. Adding the Dac-It to my chain is when I started getting that amazing, big 3D soundstage.


 
  
 Thats exactly it, the power is there but it still sounds 2d flat and boring.. I was thinking DAC as well and thats absolutely fine(my wallet says otherwise)! If I could go back I never would have bought the Z but hey you gotta start somewhere. This weekend I will be able to hook it up to my dads audio engine D1 and then I can also test it side by side with the V-Can II.
  
 I don't have a lot of experience with amps, could this simply be a case of different sound signature?
  
 Edit: Ok... definitely need a DAC upgrade! Just realized I still had this Fiio E10 sitting around. Even using the E10 is a massive improvement.


----------



## SixthFall

yeah, amps will make somewhat of a difference, but DAC's are even more important i'd reckon


----------



## fenderf4i

I can tell you that moving up from the E10 will net another massive improvement (it's not a very impressive DAC).


----------



## SixthFall

fenderf4i said:


> I can tell you that moving up from the E10 will net another massive improvement (it's not a very impressive DAC).


 
 Agreed, oh and GO RIDERS!!


----------



## joebobbilly

Yea +1 on the DAC need for your setup. Sound Blaster = Mobo sound... You could have a KILLER amp and the idea is the same "garbage in garbage out". Does the e10 have a line out that you can use to feed the Asgard 2?


----------



## UmustBKidn

Quote:


mrstick89 said:


> Hey guys so I just received my Asgard 2 tonight.  WOW all I can say is how underwhelming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


goldfishx said:


> My guess is you need to put a DAC in there, between the Sound Blaster and the Asgard. Should make a world of difference.


 
  
 I would skip the sound card entirely, and just get a nice DAC. Why? Well, honestly, I just don't think a $90 dollar sound card is going to be good for much. I guess if you want to use it to power some cheap desktop speakers, to play games with. Sure. But if you're going to invest in quality audio, then a link in the chain like a cheap sound card is going to cripple the sound. Just my personal opinion.
  
 There is a possibility that your A2 has issues. But from what I've seen of Schiit gear, it is built like a tank, and sounds great. So I would consider other options.
  
 At the very least, I would recommend a Schiit Modi DAC. It's $99 bucks, and is awfully damn good for what it is. Well, ok, if you want to spend $500 bucks on a DAC, then I would go with the Bifrost Uber 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But you really can't go wrong with a Modi. At the very least, it would allow you to try a nice source component, and test what your setup sounds like, without the sound card inline.


----------



## Mrstick89

Well the official verdict will be out Sunday when I demo it with my dads audio engine D1. At this point I believe the unit will be going back to Schiit... I would try to sell locally, but I cannot get rid of the scratchy interference noise which is audible even over my music. I would rather not pass this amp on to someone else.
  
 The AS2 honestly feels way to harsh for my DT990s, after 10minutes I want to take my headphones off. I thought this amp was suppose to pair well with the beyers? I've actually bypassed the AS2 this morning because the sound is just way to harsh for me. Would a nice DAC warm this up? I would rather not spend hundreds making this amp work when I was beyond happy with a much cheaper setup prior 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Oh well win some lose some.


----------



## GoldfishX

mrstick89 said:


> Well the official verdict will be out Sunday when I demo it with my dads audio engine D1. At this point I believe the unit will be going back to Schiit... I would try to sell locally, but I cannot get rid of the scratchy interference noise which is audible even over my music. I would rather not pass this amp on to someone else.
> 
> The AS2 honestly feels way to harsh for my DT990s, after 10minutes I want to take my headphones off. I thought this amp was suppose to pair well with the beyers? I've actually bypassed the AS2 this morning because the sound is just way to harsh for me. Would a nice DAC warm this up? I would rather not spend hundreds making this amp work when I was beyond happy with a much cheaper setup prior
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like noise coming from the computer. The amplifier may be receiving that sound and,well, amplifying it. I get that a bit when I use my computer as a source, even through my DAC. Sometimes that calms me down, listening to my internal computer noise on HD800's through my DAC/amp. But my suspicion is you will continue to hear this regardless of which amp you use.
  
 And the harshness may be jitter. If the card is doing the digital to analogue conversion, this wouldn't surprise me one bit. Basically jitter makes audio sounds harsh, distorted and well, digital. Just saying, you'll probably discover you'll have problems with a lot of amps in that configuration, not just the Asgard.
  
 You can tell I once had my fill of using a soundcard to do the digital to analogue conversion. Was not pretty.


----------



## joebobbilly

Unless there is truely something wrong with the Asgard 2. It should not be sounding as bad as you describe... only explanation I can think of right now is that it's essentially amplifying all the crap and interference that your on-board sound card normally has. A proper good amp just brings more of your source into the light making it clear if you really have a poor source.


----------



## Mrstick89

goldfishx said:


> And the harshness may be jitter. If the card is doing the digital to analogue conversion, this wouldn't surprise me one bit. Basically jitter makes audio sounds harsh, distorted and well, digital. Just saying, you'll probably discover you'll have problems with a lot of amps in that configuration, not just the Asgard.
> 
> You can tell I once had my fill of using a soundcard to do the digital to analogue conversion. Was not pretty.


 
  
  
 Any tips on getting rid of this interference? I'm beginning to think this is the reason for my troubles.. The sound is very fuzzy/congested. I also have a Fiio E10 that sounds exactly the same as my sound card. The noise doesn't change when I move my mouse or scroll up or down like I've experienced with other systems.
  
 I've been following posts by tdockweiler in the Asgard 2 thread, his complaints seem to be exactly the same as mine. After two days he ended up sending it back to Schiit and they said it was 100% fine. A hum X and $50 cables is out of the question, I'm not a fan of throwing money at something to make it work properly. I think the issue is with the wiring in my apartment or this amp just isn't for my ears.
  
 The best way I can explain is, It feels like I'm listening with a really bad hangover!! haha.
  
 Sorry for all the posts... this is driving me mad!!


----------



## bearFNF

Do you have a different source you could try? even a phone, tablet, CD player, or DAP to see if it is your computer or the wiring in your apartment?  Before sending it back I would isolate the issue, this will help you decide if its worth trying again or if you need to wait till you have better infrastructure and source.


----------



## Saraguie

umustbkidn said:


> Quote:
> 
> I would skip the sound card entirely, and just get a nice DAC. Why? Well, honestly, I just don't think a $90 dollar sound card is going to be good for much. I guess if you want to use it to power some cheap desktop speakers, to play games with. Sure. But if you're going to invest in quality audio, then a link in the chain like a cheap sound card is going to cripple the sound. Just my personal opinion.


 
 +1


----------



## Mrstick89

Ok using my cellphone I managed to remove the scratchy noise, but I still have a buzz after 60% volume, could this just be the threshold for my headphones? Too much power? Playing with the EQ in media monkey I have managed to tighten the bass a bit and remove some of the harshness by setting it to rock which looks like a U in the graphic EQ. Maybe its time to do some research into understanding EQ. In the past I've always preferred no EQ changes with these headphones.
  
 I just don't understand, my V-Can II sounded perfect listening to all types of music using this same hardware setup with 0 EQ changes. No matter what I do I can't manage the tight bass impact, clear highs and the sound stage like I had with that setup. My AS2 just sounds thin and sloppy.
  
 I think I may have just struck gold with my old setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I really really want to like my new Schiit.


----------



## T Bone

I'm some problems with static.  If the source is silent and I touch the chassis of the Bifrost or the chasis of the Valhalla - I get static through the headphones.  I noticed this first when my headphone cables were draped over my computer monitor.  I thought the monitor was the source of the interference.  I moved the head phone cables out of the way and touched the amp - static.
  
 So do I have a ground problem?


----------



## pdrm360

t bone said:


> I'm some problems with static.  If the source is silent and I touch the chassis of the Bifrost or the chasis of the Valhalla - I get static through the headphones.  I noticed this first when my headphone cables were draped over my computer monitor.  I thought the monitor was the source of the interference.  I moved the head phone cables out of the way and touched the amp - static.
> 
> So do I have a ground problem?


 
  
 My first Lyr had some static but the this one that I have now is dead quiet.


----------



## antikryst

sixthfall said:


> Let us know what you think!




Got the modi and magni for new he500s. But my old main can was the 940s. It's wonderful with the magni. But gets really bright when you want to listen loud. I love my 940s. But it's not a good pairing with the modi and magni if you like to listen loud since it just can't get loud enough without being too bright with some songs.


----------



## bearFNF

That is my experience with magni with some of my cans, also.  The Vali and the Asgard 2 are not so bright, might be worth looking into.


----------



## gefski

t bone said:


> I'm some problems with static.  If the source is silent and I touch the chassis of the Bifrost or the chasis of the Valhalla - I get static through the headphones.  I noticed this first when my headphone cables were draped over my computer monitor.  I thought the monitor was the source of the interference.  I moved the head phone cables out of the way and touched the amp - static.
> 
> So do I have a ground problem?



Depends on the nature of the noise.

HUM through the headphones could be a ground loop problem; in some cases it comes on when you touch things, in others it goes away when you touch. There are lots of articles online that can help you work through it.

External HUM from a component (not through the headphones) could be a bad or poorly isolated transformer, or DC voltage on the AC line (can be fixed with a "Humbuster").

STATIC is a different sound. Here's a recent example of mine. Thought my Valhalla volume control was static-y when I touched it, but found lots more static (through the headphones) when I rubbed my hand on the headphone cable. Shut the system down and used my Zerostat on all the cables. Powered up and static completely gone-everything dead silent. Static electricity is everywhere, carpets, clothing, etc. and it can affect our systems. This was way easy compared to the ground loop I once fought for months in my main system.

This is all anecdotal from my experiences, not scientific.


----------



## Koolpep

gefski said:


> Depends on the nature of the noise.
> 
> HUM through the headphones could be a ground loop problem; in some cases it comes on when you touch things, in others it goes away when you touch. There are lots of articles online that can help you work through it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My experience as well with the Valhalla, static while touching the volume knob, silence when not touching it. Interesting. I assume you have the V1 of the Valhalla?
  
 cheers,
 K


----------



## UmustBKidn

antikryst said:


> Got the modi and magni for new he500s. But my old main can was the 940s. It's wonderful with the magni. But gets really bright when you want to listen loud. I love my 940s. But it's not a good pairing with the modi and magni if you like to listen loud since it just can't get loud enough without being too bright with some songs.


 
  
 It's true that some pairings with certain music gets too bright or harsh. This is why tube amps or hybrids sound so good with that kind of music (and why tube rolling is so useful). Personally, I really love my Magni, but only with certain types of music. I will swap out my Magni for a hybrid amp sometimes, which can absolutely tone down and warm up music that would otherwise sound too bright or harsh.
  
 If you want to experiment with an amazing (and inexpensive) hybrid, I would highly recommend the Schiit Vali.


----------



## UmustBKidn

t bone said:


> I'm some problems with static.  If the source is silent and I touch the chassis of the Bifrost or the chasis of the Valhalla - I get static through the headphones.  I noticed this first when my headphone cables were draped over my computer monitor.  I thought the monitor was the source of the interference.  I moved the head phone cables out of the way and touched the amp - static.
> 
> So do I have a ground problem?


 
  
 Well, static and ground loop noise are two different things. If you're getting some odd hums or other noise when you touch a component, then that's most likely some sort of grounding issue. Static (or RFI) would be something caused by an external source of noise, like a fan, a hair dryer, a TV, etc, that comes and goes when the external device is either turned on/off, or moved far away. The reason I point out the difference is, it helps to determine the source of the noise, and a possible solution to the issue.
  
 The things to do to fix a grounding issue would be to start out by making sure the AC outlet you use is properly grounded. Use one of these little AC outlet checkers from a hardware store to do that. If there's a problem with the outlet, have it fixed by a competent electrician.
  
 As for static, If you have a lot of electrical components placed together, try moving them apart one at a time, to see which of them might be causing the noise. Try to isolate whatever is causing the noise, and route the wires away from your audio gear.


----------



## kothganesh

I had a problem with my Lyr where I would have the odd crackling noise in my HPs. While chasing it down, I accidentally touched one of the tubes (in the front socket) and sure enough, every time I touched it the noise would appear. I pulled out both tubes and put fresh Amperex tubes. Touch wood, no noise until now (its been about 2 weeks).


----------



## Gerzom

My 3 year old son also likes this Schiit


----------



## pdrm360

gerzom said:


> My 3 year old son also likes this Schiit


 
  
 He even doesn't like to look at them.


----------



## moriez

bearfnf said:


> The Vali and the Asgard 2 are not so bright, might be worth looking into.


 
  
 Can you comment on which of the two generally output the least brightness to your ears?


----------



## jaywillin

moriez said:


> Can you comment on which of the two generally output the least brightness to your ears?


 

 i've had the A2 and i have the vali, i'd say the vali, though i didn't find the A2 bright especially


----------



## Mrstick89

moriez said:


> Can you comment on which of the two generally output the least brightness to your ears?


 
  
  
 I found the AS2 to be too way harsh for my DT990s so much that I'm sending it back. I really did not enjoy listening with the AS2 at all, very fatiguing and boring. Although I don't have a lot of experience with amps and have never heard a Vali, so keep that in mind.


----------



## bearFNF

moriez said:


> Can you comment on which of the two generally output the least brightness to your ears?


 

 They are pretty close to my ear as far as brightness goes, But the being said they are different, I am favoring the vali sound right now over the Asgard 2.  But the taboo mkII still gets most of my time.


----------



## HiVLTAGE

Does anyone know if the Magni/Modi would be a good match for the Mr. Speakers Alpha Dogs?


----------



## T Bone

koolpep said:


> My experience as well with the Valhalla, static while touching the volume knob, silence when not touching it. Interesting. I assume you have the V1 of the Valhalla?


 
 It's brand new and ordered directly from Schiit - so I doubt it's a legacy version of the hardware.


----------



## T Bone

gefski said:


> STATIC is a different sound. Here's a recent example of mine. Thought my Valhalla volume control was static-y when I touched it, but found lots more static (through the headphones) when I rubbed my hand on the headphone cable. Shut the system down and used my Zerostat on all the cables. Powered up and static completely gone-everything dead silent. Static electricity is everywhere, carpets, clothing, etc. and it can affect our systems. This was way easy compared to the ground loop I once fought for months in my main system.


 
  
 I didn't think it was "hum".  If I stopped touching the cable and/or chassis it was dead quiet.  
 I live in Las Vegas and the dry desert air makes everything "staticy".  I looked into the "zerostat" - interesting.  Never heard of a device like it before.


----------



## gefski

t bone said:


> I didn't think it was "hum".  If I stopped touching the cable and/or chassis it was dead quiet.
> I live in Las Vegas and the dry desert air makes everything "staticy".  I looked into the "zerostat" - interesting.  Never heard of a device like it before.




Designed for removing static build up on lps. Mine are 30+ years old; they never seem to wear out. I use them on cables, cds, anything that can get a static charge.


----------



## gefski

koolpep said:


> My experience as well with the Valhalla, static while touching the volume knob, silence when not touching it. Interesting. I assume you have the V1 of the Valhalla?
> 
> cheers,
> K



Mine's a V2. Fortunately in this case the problem was static build up in the headphone cable and easily solved.


----------



## Koolpep

gefski said:


> Mine's a V2. Fortunately in this case the problem was static build up in the headphone cable and easily solved.


 
 Took my Valhalla yesterday home, no static at any time. But in the office our power supply is a convoluted mess, so am not surprised if it would have to do something with that (or static build up). Anyhow, didn't bother me much in any case as it was only when touching the knob.
 Thanks for your answer!
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## moriez

Quote:


jaywillin said:


> i've had the A2 and i have the vali, i'd say the vali, though i didn't find the A2 bright especially


 


bearfnf said:


> They are pretty close to my ear as far as brightness goes, But the being said they are different, I am favoring the vali sound right now over the Asgard 2.


 
  
 At both, how do the two differ to you?
  


mrstick89 said:


> I found the AS2 to be too way harsh for my DT990s so much that I'm sending it back. I really did not enjoy listening with the AS2 at all, very fatiguing and boring.


 
  
 990 is peaky. Maybe Vali's tubes will serve you better. Keep an eye on this post.


----------



## HiVLTAGE

Does anyone here have the HE-400's with the Magni and Modi? 
  
 If so, how does it sound? I'm planning to upgrade to HE-400/HE-400i


----------



## AnalogSavior

Anyone have experience with both Mjolnir and Valhalla?  I got the chance to listen to Mjolnir at a meet and it made HD650s sound straight up bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing).  Just curious how Valhalla's sound signature compares.


----------



## Byronb

analogsavior said:


> Anyone have experience with both Mjolnir and Valhalla?  I got the chance to listen to Mjolnir at a meet and it made HD650s sound straight up bright (which is not necessarily a bad thing).  Just curious how Valhalla's sound signature compares.


 
 I have both and would definitely say the Val is a small bit "warmer" than the Mjolnir, There are certain types of music where it is more obvious than others.


----------



## AnalogSavior

byronb said:


> I have both and would definitely say the Val is a small bit "warmer" than the Mjolnir, There are certain types of music where it is more obvious than others.


 
  
 Nice, thats kinda what I figured.  Seems like the sweet spot in the Schiit lineup for something like an HD650, unless you want balanced.


----------



## Byronb

analogsavior said:


> Nice, thats kinda what I figured.  Seems like the sweet spot in the Schiit lineup for something like an HD650, unless you want balanced.


 
  
 I should have put a caveat on there, that the DAC is a very important piece to the puzzle, whatever you do don't go cheap on the DAC!


----------



## uziyourillusion

Hey guys , bought a Schiit Magni for my AKG Q701. I have a couple questions as Im not sure if its working as intended. I'm also a complete novice when it comes to Audiophile equipment. When I plug my Nexus 5 phone into the Magni, even with the phones volume maxed and the Magni maxed, the volume isnt very loud at all. Is the Magni simply not powerful enough to drive these headphones or is there something else at play? I run a Soundblaster Z behind the Magni when I have it plugged into my PC so volume doesnt seem to be an issue there, but I'm not sure if the Magni is really doing anything and its just my Soundcard doing most of the work. I mean, there's a bit more oomph and volume with when the Magni is plugged in with the Soundcard versus just the Soundcard, but not a whole lot. Is there something possible wrong with my Magni?


----------



## CJs06

Got my Schiit Lyr today and I'm impressed. Such a lush and full bass; the mids are well defined and have so much drive. Overall a warm and very fun amplifier. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to dubstep on the Lyr; it was special 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. My suspicions were correct, tube amps are awesome when listening to EDM. I also enjoyed listening to the high-res classic rock and jazz that I have. The Lyr is great, a new level of dynamic, rich and fun for me.


----------



## pdrm360

cjs06 said:


> Got my Schiit Lyr today and I'm impressed. Such a lush and full bass; the mids are well defined and have so much drive. Overall a warm and very fun amplifier. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to dubstep on the Lyr; it was special
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Be careful, the Lyr can blow up your X1!


----------



## CJs06

pdrm360 said:


> Be careful, the Lyr can blow up your X1!



Indeed! Once I get past the 9:00 position on the volume I can tell the Lyr wants to drive the **** outta the X1s. Just to be safe, I checked the Lyr's power level using my scanner beforehand and it said it was over 9000


----------



## Tuco1965

cjs06 said:


> Got my Schiit Lyr today and I'm impressed. Such a lush and full bass; the mids are well defined and have so much drive. Overall a warm and very fun amplifier. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to dubstep on the Lyr; it was special
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It gets better as you get some hours on the tubes too.


----------



## JB North County

I've used the Bifrost/Lyr combo with my Hifiman HE-500's for quite awhile now and they are the excelent match that everybody says they are.  Have a nice Ancient Audio Tech tube amp I used before and it just doesn't have enough juice.
  
 Have used the Arkam iPhone dock as an input and get pretty good sound out of it, using that more since my Nuforce cd player won't eject any more.   Gotta get that fixed some day.
  
 Looking for a smal footprint cd deck to put on my night stand next to the Bifrost/Lyr.......any ideas?


----------



## bearFNF

jb north county said:


> I've used the Bifrost/Lyr combo with my Hifiman HE-500's for quite awhile now and they are the excelent match that everybody says they are.  Have a nice Ancient Audio Tech tube amp I used before and it just doesn't have enough juice.
> 
> Have used the Arkam iPhone dock as an input and get pretty good sound out of it, using that more since my Nuforce cd player won't eject any more.   Gotta get that fixed some day.
> 
> Looking for a smal footprint cd deck to put on my night stand next to the Bifrost/Lyr.......any ideas?



How about this one?read some good things about it.
http://www.needledoctor.com/Cambridge-Audio-One-Receiver-CD-Player-w-iPod-Dock?sc=2&category=101


----------



## Jason Stoddard

To all the Schiit owners out there, a sincere and heartfelt thanks. And now, the full story can be told, right here on Head-Fi: 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up
  
 Expect a chapter a week until we reach the present day (about 35 weeks worth!)
  
 All the best,
 Jason


----------



## PXSS

Jason,
I need some portable battery powered Schiit. 
Will you guys consider it?


----------



## roguegeek

jason stoddard said:


> To all the Schiit owners out there, a sincere and heartfelt thanks. And now, the full story can be told, right here on Head-Fi:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up
> 
> ...


 
 And it's things like this that make this little company seem so much more special than the rest. Subscribed and can't wait to read it all!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Might pick up a magni+modi in the coming months. But it would seem silly considering I only have sr60i's......


----------



## GoldfishX

blackenedplague said:


> Might pick up a magni+modi in the coming months. But it would seem silly considering I only have sr60i's......


 
  
 Why would it be silly? I am thinking the forwardness of the Grados might not match so well with the Magni, which can be quite bright. Maybe try the Vali instead, to kind of smooth the sound out with tubey goodness? Just an idea...


----------



## CJs06

My SR-60s sound great with the Vali, definitely helps with the bass a bit.


----------



## jaywillin

goldfishx said:


> Why would it be silly? I am thinking the forwardness of the Grados might not match so well with the Magni, which can be quite bright. Maybe try the Vali instead, to kind of smooth the sound out with tubey goodness? Just an idea...


 

 +1  vali, had both the magni and have the vali, the magni was a little harsh with my grado's, the vali , golden !


----------



## Gerzom

Modi and Magni will be delivered today!!
 So I can hook them up to my HE-400 as my office set-up.
  
 Still thinking about adding a Vali to the stack, never owned a tube amplifier before, so the itch is there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will post some pictures and my first impressions when they arrive.


----------



## Gerzom

They're here:
  

  
  
 First impression right out of the box: WOW, what a great little stack of Schiit is this!
 It sounds soooo much better than my Audioengine D1 I was using up till now. Combination with HE-400 works real well too, I think.
  
 So I'm a happy camper!


----------



## GoldfishX

gerzom said:


> They're here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice! Mine is similar, except I have the Magni sitting on a larger DAC and no speakers. Helps drown out those boring work conversations.


----------



## markm1

jaywillin said:


> +1  vali, had both the magni and have the vali, the magni was a little harsh with my grado's, the vali , golden !


 
 Jay-do you still give the nod to LD1+ or do you think the Vali is comperable?


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> Jay-do you still give the nod to LD1+ or do you think the Vali is comperable?


 

 JUST grado's, i'd say LD, especially the rs1i, i like being able to tube roll
 but, for me, a mostly grado, but liable to get anything other headphone at any time, i'd say vali, it drives the lcd2 about as good as the lyr really
 the vali has got balls, and its top end i think is between the LD and magni, and closer to the magni


----------



## MrPanda

What do you think of the Lyr vs the Asgard with your AKG phones?  I'm considering both amps...


----------



## pdrm360

mrpanda said:


> What do you think of the Lyr vs the Asgard with your AKG phones?  I'm considering both amps...


 
  
 They both are great and you won't go wrong with either.


----------



## MrPanda

Any clear preference for you?  How's the noise level on the Lyr with the AKG's?
 Is there enough power on the Asgard for them?
  
 Thanks again


----------



## pdrm360

mrpanda said:


> Any clear preference for you?  How's the noise level on the Lyr with the AKG's?
> Is there enough power on the Asgard for them?
> 
> Thanks again


 
  
 I've had two lyrs so far, the first one had some noise but the second one (my current Lyr) is dead quiet.
  
 Yes, the Asgard has more than enough power for the AKGs.


----------



## MrPanda

Thanks..  I'm having a hard time picking between the two.  The Asgard appeals to me since it's solid state - you turn it on and you're there. 
 The taming factor of the Lyr appeals to me, but knowing myself, I think I'd be a walking target for a tube-rolling addiction once I started...


----------



## pdrm360

The Lyr is warm, punchy, and very "alive."  the Asgard 2 is very detailed and revealing.


----------



## MrPanda

those are both good sets of qualities.. do you find yourself spending more time with one rather than the other?  How come?  thanks!


----------



## ropeadope

Anyone know how long the Magnis have been on backorder? I ordered a Magni on Monday and there was no mention of the backorder then but there is now. If they were in stock when I bought em, I would've got them by wednesday or thursday. Bad timing! I really need an amp soon. Schiit is popular as hell because they make great products though, so I get it.


----------



## JosephAM

Hey guys I'm currently using my HD650s with a Magni/Modi stack and am considering upgrading the magni to either an Asgard 2 or Valhalla. Will either be a significant upgrade from my magni?


----------



## Byronb

I don't have an Asgard (It and the Vali are the only Schiit amps I don't own), but for my money the Valhalla is definitely a noticeable improvement. For the 650's which I also own, the Valhalla does everything better.


----------



## roguegeek

I'm probably going to purchase a Bifrost this weekend to replace my Modi and compliment my Lyr. I'm also thinking about picking up an Asgard 2 as well just to have the different signatures. Is there a switch I can use to flip between the Asgard and Lyr that will compliment the function, looks, and overall sexiness of a Lyr/Asgard2/Bifrost stack? Additionally, is the something for a Vali/Magni/Modi stack?


----------



## pdrm360

josepham said:


> Hey guys I'm currently using my HD650s with a Magni/Modi stack and am considering upgrading the magni to either an Asgard 2 or Valhalla. Will either be a significant upgrade from my magni?


 
  
 The Valhalla would be a good upgrade better than the Asgard 2 for the HD650, IMO.


----------



## pdrm360

mrpanda said:


> those are both good sets of qualities.. do you find yourself spending more time with one rather than the other?  How come?  thanks!


 
  
 It depends to your cans. I sold my Asgard 2, because I found the Lyr pairs better with the HD700 and HE-500 that I had that time.


----------



## gsr108

roguegeek said:


> I'm probably going to purchase a Bifrost this weekend to replace my Modi and compliment my Lyr. I'm also thinking about picking up an Asgard 2 as well just to have the different signatures. Is there a switch I can use to flip between the Asgard and Lyr that will compliment the function, looks, and overall sexiness of a Lyr/Asgard2/Bifrost stack? Additionally, is the something for a Vali/Magni/Modi stack?


 

 You can just use the preouts on the Asgard (or Lyr) to connect the other amp.


----------



## roguegeek

gsr108 said:


> You can just use the preouts on the Asgard (or Lyr) to connect the other amp.




I'm an idiot.


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> gsr108 said:
> 
> 
> > You can just use the preouts on the Asgard (or Lyr) to connect the other amp.
> ...


 
  
 No, if you use the preamp out, you will merge the amps sound signatures.


----------



## roguegeek

Wait, isn't that the entire point of a preamp out? To push out a signal previous to the amp?


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> Wait, isn't that the entire point of a preamp out? To push out a signal previous to the amp?


 
  
 You can check this with your Lyr, connect your E09k to the preamp output of the Lyr and enjoy the beautiful tubey sound.


----------



## sabin1669

I have a vahalla with AKG 701 for home,my music source is spotify on a galaxy S4 cellphone connected with Kimber silver streak cables.When I'm lifting,running and biking same source w/fiio 18 and grado 80's.Just got some Grado 225i to try out,been a Grado dealer since 1979. Been burning in for 4 days with XLO burn-in disc will compare to the AKG 701 soon.I really like the AKG's. Been a Kimber Kable dealer since 1982,was going to send AKG's to Kimber to have wired with silver streak if they would.Any body have any idea how this would sound in  comparison to Moon Black Dragon?


----------



## roguegeek

pdrm360 said:


> You can check this with your Lyr, connect your E09k to the preamp output of the Lyr and enjoy the beautiful tubey sound.



What's the point of the preamp out then?


----------



## pdrm360

roguegeek said:


> What's the point of the preamp out then?


 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preamplifier


----------



## tuna47

I have had the asgard2 and now the Lyr with the he500 the lyr has more power never feels strained a sweeter sound both are good though
I listen to jazz manly lyr works better for that


----------



## pdrm360

The Lyr has more juice for the HE-500 than the Asgard 2 for sure.


----------



## roguegeek

Put in my order for the Bifrost Uber with USB this morning. I'm guessing I'm not going to see too much of an improvement over the Modi I'm currently using with the Lyr, but I'm getting tired of see that tiny DAC sit on the edge of the Lyr.


----------



## tim79b

Just how good is the uber upgrade for the bifrost? I'm just running tge standard at the moment...but I am curious...

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk


----------



## roguegeek

I guess I'll never know if the Uber upgrade was worth it unless I decide to pull it for some reason (highly doubtful). I just figured if I'm ordering new, might as well throw all the bells and whistles on it now since it'd be highly likely I'd pick them up in the future.


----------



## gefski

pdrm360 said:


> No, if you use the preamp out, you will merge the amps sound signatures.




Any additional device will "damage" the musical signal somewhat. A switch or even an RCA "Y" will leave its signature as well. The question is how audible (if at all) will each method be.


----------



## roguegeek

gefski said:


> Any additional device will "damage" the musical signal somewhat. A switch or even an RCA "Y" will leave its signature as well. The question is how audible (if at all) will each method be.


 
 Ok, so this goes back to my original question then. Is there a sexier way to switch between a Lyr and Asgard when connecting them to a Bifrost besides changing wired connections or some plasticy RCA switch? A triple-stack if you wish.


----------



## Tuco1965

I've only had the Uber and I'm loving it.  Strictly using USB only with it.  I disconnected my cd players from it to keep my stack nice and neat.


----------



## joebobbilly

roguegeek said:


> Ok, so this goes back to my original question then. Is there a sexier way to switch between a Lyr and Asgard when connecting them to a Bifrost besides changing wired connections or some plasticy RCA switch? A triple-stack if you wish.


 

 Hehe, bite the bullet, spend the extra 200 and grab a Gungnir (Uberfrost is 500+ already) it has 2 SE outputs so you can feed lyr and asgard at the same time. Also it's balanced if you ever wanna go that route.


----------



## pdrm360

joebobbilly said:


> Hehe, bite the bullet, spend the extra 200 and grab a Gungnir (Uberfrost is 500+ already) it has 2 SE outputs so you can feed lyr and asgard at the same time. Also it's balanced if you ever wanna go that route.


 
  
 Hehe, you're ruining everyone's wallet.


----------



## joebobbilly

Hahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 tis what we do here @ Head-Fi!


----------



## roguegeek

joebobbilly said:


> Hehe, bite the bullet, spend the extra 200 and grab a Gungnir (Uberfrost is 500+ already) it has 2 SE outputs so you can feed lyr and asgard at the same time. Also it's balanced if you ever wanna go that route.



God dammit. I hate all of you and my wallet hates you more.


----------



## NZheadcase

But i bet your ears and brain love it aye?


----------



## gefski

roguegeek said:


> Ok, so this goes back to my original question then. Is there a sexier way to switch between a Lyr and Asgard when connecting them to a Bifrost besides changing wired connections or some plasticy RCA switch? A triple-stack if you wish.




All one can do is try (and listen to) different ways, starting with "free" and working through more costly (sexier?) methods.

I plug and unplug between my Stax amp and Valhalla at home, but really got sick of that at a recent HeadFi meet. So I emailed Schiit, asking if they had any problems with a "Y" out of Bifrost. They said "...no sweat, we do it all the time...". So I'll use a "Y" in less critical situations in the future.

Just my take on it.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

pdrm360 said:


> Hehe, you're ruining everyone's wallet.


 
 speak for yourself


----------



## NZheadcase

roguegeek said:


> Ok, so this goes back to my original question then. Is there a sexier way to switch between a Lyr and Asgard when connecting them to a Bifrost besides changing wired connections or some plasticy RCA switch? A triple-stack if you wish.




Get those all metal y-splitters. Jason said this shouldn't be an issue. The most effect it will have would be a couple of dbs less volume. Have been using y-splitters with my bifrost for a looong time now. No noticeable difference to me. 

Good luck on your search.


----------



## roguegeek

nzheadcase said:


> Get those all metal y-splitters. Jason said this shouldn't be an issue. The most effect it will have would be a couple of dbs less volume. Have been using y-splitters with my bifrost for a looong time now. No noticeable difference to me.
> 
> Good luck on your search.




Link me to a high quality one or the one you're using?

Did a little leg work on my own. Something as simple as just throwing two of these on the back of a Bifrost?
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042904&p_id=7186


----------



## pdrm360

blackenedplague said:


> speak for yourself


----------



## NZheadcase

roguegeek said:


> Link me to a high quality one or the one you're using?
> 
> Did a little leg work on my own. Something as simple as just throwing two of these on the back of a Bifrost?
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042904&p_id=7186


 
  
 Those would do nicely.
  
 My ones look like this (plus link below):
  

  

  
  
 http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/4204-shark-rca-male-to-2-female-adaptor-black
  
 Here's one from amazon:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-adapter-male-female-assembly/dp/B0009MFRW0/ref=sr_1_61?ie=UTF8&qid=1390718003&sr=8-61&keywords=rca+splitter


----------



## pdrm360

nzheadcase said:


> Those would do nicely.
> 
> http://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/4204-shark-rca-male-to-2-female-adaptor-black
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! Thanks for sharing the links!


----------



## roguegeek

Those are very nice indeed! Somewhat related question. Do you guys buy the RCA cables from Schiit or do you go with another brand? I wanted to go with other brand because I thought they were kinda expensive, but I had problems finding some that were only 6".


----------



## pdrm360

I've bought a pair from Schiit (PYST) and a pair, from www.crutchfield.com (AudioQuest).


----------



## Radioking59

PYST cables are Straight Wire brand cables, not actually made by Schiit. One pair I got a while ago are Flexconnect II cable with black RCA plugs. Another pair I got more recently are Concerto cable with silver plugs. The Flexconnect II cables are thicker than the Concerto cables.


----------



## ropeadope

Damn, I picked a really bad time to order a magni (or maybe they are always backordered/out of stock, I know they are really popular and well liked), because I needed an amp ASAP, now I've wasted a whole week and that sucker isn't going to ship out anytime very soon. They didn't say out of stock at the time when I ordered. I hope I can cancel the order if I decide to. Still love my Modi (that shipped very quickly back when I ordered it a few weeks ago). They definitely make great products.


----------



## GoldfishX

In all seriousness, I was going to sell my Magni once I upgraded, but I'm keeping it as a reference unit because I know how good it sounds. It's earned its place.
  
 Same deal for the Lyr. I was cleaning my room out and found the foam packaging  for it laying around. "Welp, I won't be selling mine anytime soon...I can pitch these".
  
 Good ****, Schiit!


----------



## Erukian

radioking59 said:


> PYST cables are Straight Wire brand cables, not actually made by Schiit. One pair I got a while ago are Flexconnect II cable with black RCA plugs. Another pair I got more recently are Concerto cable with silver plugs. The Flexconnect II cables are thicker than the Concerto cables.


 
 FWIW, my balanced PYST cables were the Straight Wire Symphony II's. IMHO it's probably overkill since balanced IC's have such an advantage over RCA cables but like most everything from Schiit, it's a good value considering they're made in the US.


----------



## vincent215

nzheadcase said:


> Those would do nicely.
> 
> My ones look like this (plus link below):


 
 Look good! Do you notice any change with the adaptor?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## NZheadcase

vincent215 said:


> Look good! Do you notice any change with the adaptor?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 While I have not done an in depth A-B (you can imagine how tedious it would be to do on a per song basis), I have on many occasions removed and then re-inserted the splitters. I used them to link 2 amps at a time; sometimes the the Lyr, Soloist, Asgard (back when I had it) or the PanAm depending on the need or my mood for that certain instance. 
  
 I can - with my fallible senses - detect no change. Can I be 100% sure there is no change? No, of course not, but definitely not detectable to these ears. What I can say 100% with certainty, is that I had no degradation of enjoyment whatsoever with the RCA splitters installed. 
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## pdrm360

nzheadcase said:


> While I have not done an in depth A-B (you can imagine how tedious it would be to do on a per song basis), I have on many occasions removed and then re-inserted the splitters. I used them to link 2 amps at a time; sometimes the the Lyr, Soloist, Asgard (back when I had it) or the PanAm depending on the need or my mood for that certain instance.
> 
> I can - *with my fallible senses - detect no change.* Can I be 100% sure there is no change? No, of course not, but definitely not detectable to these ears. What I can say 100% with certainty, is that I had no degradation of enjoyment whatsoever with the RCA splitters installed.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
  
 That's good enough for me. Thanks!


----------



## NZheadcase

Oh, and may I add that I had another pair of splitters - wire-based, and not the solid ones I currently use. I threw them away as I heard a bit of channel imbalance with them. May have been from the construction or something - but as they were really cheap, I felt no need to investigate. Out the door they went.


----------



## roguegeek

nzheadcase said:


> While I have not done an in depth A-B (you can imagine how tedious it would be to do on a per song basis), I have on many occasions removed and then re-inserted the splitters. I used them to link 2 amps at a time; sometimes the the Lyr, Soloist, Asgard (back when I had it) or the PanAm depending on the need or my mood for that certain instance.
> 
> I can - with my fallible senses - detect no change. Can I be 100% sure there is no change? No, of course not, but definitely not detectable to these ears. What I can say 100% with certainty, is that I had no degradation of enjoyment whatsoever with the RCA splitters installed.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 
 Sold! At least whenever I decide to buy a solid state amp. Whether that's Asgard or not, I'm not sure yet, but a triple stack does sound very sexy to me.


----------



## nixkid

goldfishx said:


> In all seriousness, I was going to sell my Magni once I upgraded, but I'm keeping it as a reference unit because I know how good it sounds. It's earned its place.
> 
> Same deal for the Lyr. I was cleaning my room out and found the foam packaging  for it laying around. "Welp, I won't be selling mine anytime soon...I can pitch these".
> 
> Good ****, Schiit!


 
 In your opinion, is the Lyr worth 4x the price of Magni?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

pdrm360 said:


>


----------



## roguegeek

nixkid said:


> In your opinion, is the Lyr worth 4x the price of Magni?



They're... different. Solid state vs tubes. Really, the only person who can answer that question will be you. Is an HD 800 worth 15x more than an SR80i? To some, yes.


----------



## nixkid

roguegeek said:


> They're... different. Solid state vs tubes. Really, the only person who can answer that question will be you. Is an HD 800 worth 15x more than an SR80i? To some, yes.


 
 Do you find the differences between the Lyr and Magni to be subtle or very pronounced?


----------



## roguegeek

nixkid said:


> Do you find the differences between the Lyr and Magni to be subtle or very pronounced?



Depended on the headphone. I ran my HD 700 for a week on my Magni and it was far too bright. Picked up the Lyr based on feedback for people here and the differences were very noticeable and positive. Then I changed out the stock tubes with Orange Globes and the results were even more positive. For that particular headphone, I've been extremely happy moving from the Magni to Lyr.


----------



## nixkid

roguegeek said:


> Depended on the headphone. I ran my HD 700 for a week on my Magni and it was far too bright. Picked up the Lyr based on feedback for people here and the differences were very noticeable and positive. Then I changed out the stock tubes with Orange Globes and the results were even more positive. For that particular headphone, I've been extremely happy moving from the Magni to Lyr.


 
 I would be using it with an HE400.  I find the HE400 is pretty bright with the Magni to the point where it needs EQ.  I'm looking for something that could tame the treble on the 400 possibly allowing me to use them without EQ but I'm fairly nervous about spending $450 on an amp (I only spent $300 on the headphones).  Everyone says that the Lyr and 400 pair well but I just REALLY want to be sure.


----------



## roguegeek

nixkid said:


> I would be using it with an HE400.  I find the HE400 is pretty bright with the Magni to the point where it needs EQ.  I'm looking for something that could tame the treble on the 400 possibly allowing me to use them without EQ but I'm fairly nervous about spending $450 on an amp (I only spent $300 on the headphones).  Everyone says that the Lyr and 400 pair well but I just REALLY want to be sure.



I already hated the treble on the HE-400 and it seemed like the Magni just made the problem worse. The Magni is a fairly bright amp. It was bad enough that I sold the HE-400. Never got a chance to test it on the Lyr, but considering what it did to the HD 700, I would think it would have helped tame some of that wild treble on the HE-400. For me, it probably wouldn't have been enough to save it from being sold. I really couldn't stand those cans.


----------



## jexby

nixkid said:


> I would be using it with an HE400.  I find the HE400 is pretty bright with the Magni to the point where it needs EQ.  I'm looking for something that could tame the treble on the 400 possibly allowing me to use them without EQ but I'm fairly nervous about spending $450 on an amp (I only spent $300 on the headphones).  Everyone says that the Lyr and 400 pair well but I just REALLY want to be sure.


 
  
 Unsure if  you are in USA, but cheap shipping and Schiit return policy of a new Lyr certainly lessens the risk.
  
 not having HE-500 (skipped HE-400 for the treble signature) nor Magni,
 but having Bifrost Uber + Lyr (with myriad of tubes) now and HE-500, Vali on a different set up and sold an Asgard2:
  
 all I'll say is Lyr can definitely be made "warmer" to sooth your HE-400, especially if you pick some warm tubes.
 unsure what DAC you have, but the customizability of the Lyr with some Orange Globe or Mullard or <insert warm tube of the month here> tubes
 can dial in the sound signature you prefer.
 THAT (IMHO) is the real benefit of the Lyr.
  
 You'll need to be willing to jump in to some tube research and add on purchases, but in the end-  it's more likely to be "perfect"
 than trying a Magni and/or 10 different solid state amps before reaching similar results.
  
 Summary:  
 in expensive try n buy could be the Vali tube amp?
  
 more expensive option:
 the Lyr could be perfect with HE-400 for your ears, IF you are willing to try some differing tubes and perhaps augment your DAC.
  
 the Lyr (plus Ediswan, RTC, Siemens tubes) with my HE-500 (and Concero HD) are pretty much my end game.


----------



## GoldfishX

It depends what headphone you are going to pair it with. The one headphone I have extensive knowledge with the Magni (as it's part of my office rig) is the Mad Dog and that pairing is amazing. An HD700 or HD800, no because they don't fare so well with regular bright solid state amps, as both are fairly bright headphones. I haven't even considered running the HD800 off a Magni. People have said great things about Vali paired with bright headphones though, so that is probably a more apt comparison. I would welcome the chance to try the Vali/HD800 pairing.
  
 If cash if a concern, also remember the first thing I did with the Lyr was upgrade the stock tubes. So factor in extra for that as well.
  
 For the Lyr, you are mostly paying to take the edge of the highs (Magni can be edgy up there) and more overall headroom vs the Magni, plus the option to taylor the sound to your liking with tube rolling. Not 6x better, but definitely 2x or 3x better once you upgrade the tubes. 'Tis the law of diminishing returns.


----------



## pdrm360

nixkid said:


> I would be using it with an HE400.  I find the HE400 is pretty bright with the Magni to the point where it needs EQ.  I'm looking for something that could tame the treble on the 400 possibly allowing me to use them without EQ but I'm fairly nervous about spending $450 on an amp (I only spent $300 on the headphones).  Everyone says that the Lyr and 400 pair well but I just REALLY want to be sure.


 
  
 Yes, the Lyr pairs a lot better with the HE-400 than the Magni.


----------



## pdrm360

goldfishx said:


> It depends what headphone you are going to pair it with. *The one headphone I have extensive knowledge with the Magni (as it's part of my office rig) is the Mad Dog and that pairing is amazing.* An HD700 or HD800, no because they don't fare so well with regular bright solid state amps, as both are fairly bright headphones. I haven't even considered running the HD800 off a Magni. People have said great things about Vali paired with bright headphones though, so that is probably a more apt comparison. I would welcome the chance to try the Vali/HD800 pairing.
> 
> If cash if a concern, also remember the first thing I did with the Lyr was upgrade the stock tubes. So factor in extra for that as well.
> 
> For the Lyr, you are mostly paying to take the edge of the highs (Magni can be edgy up there) and more overall headroom vs the Magni, plus the option to taylor the sound to your liking with tube rolling. Not 6x better, but definitely 2x or 3x better once you upgrade the tubes. 'Tis the law of diminishing returns.


 
  
 That's because the Mad Dog is a warm sounding headphones.


----------



## GoldfishX

pdrm360 said:


> That's because the Mad Dog is a warm sounding headphones.


 
  
 Indeed. I'm well aware of this. Is why it was tricky to answer the original question, that being if the Magni was 4x the amp that Lyr was when I wouldn't even consider using the Magni with an HD800 or any bright sounding headphone. The flipside is that Lyr works wonderfully with the Mad Dogs, I find.


----------



## Neo-ST

Hi all.
 I just ordered Magni and Modi.
 It's my first venture into Hifi waters, also my first DAC and AMP.
 With them, I ordered a Philips Fidelio X1 headphones because they're on a nice discount on Amazon.de (I'm from EU) since there was only 3 items left.
  
 Do you think they will fit good with one another ?


----------



## roguegeek

neo-st said:


> Hi all.
> I just ordered Magni and Modi.
> It's my first venture into Hifi waters, also my first DAC and AMP.
> With them, I ordered a Philips Fidelio X1 headphones because they're on a nice discount on Amazon.de (I'm from EU) since there was only 3 items left.
> ...



The Schiit stack is a little on the bright side and the X1 is an extremely warm can. Sounds like a good for to me. Congrats on your purchases!


----------



## Neo-ST

Thank you. How are you all satisfied with your Magni/Modi combo so far?


----------



## roguegeek

neo-st said:


> Thank you. How are you all satisfied with your Magni/Modi combo so far?


 
 I've been really happy, but they are definitely a gateway drug. For the things that they pair well with, they pair really well. The performance you get form any of their sub-$120 products is astronomical.


----------



## CJs06

neo-st said:


> Hi all.
> I just ordered Magni and Modi.
> It's my first venture into Hifi waters, also my first DAC and AMP.
> With them, I ordered a Philips Fidelio X1 headphones because they're on a nice discount on Amazon.de (I'm from EU) since there was only 3 items left.
> ...


 

 You'll really enjoy the combo! I started with a Vali/Modi + Philips Fidelio X1 and It was better than expected. The magni pairs great with low impedance cans and honestly I don't think you can get a better headphone than the X1 at its price-point. Good decisions sir.


----------



## Neo-ST

Thanks, it's relieving to hear that! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'll post a feedback once I get all the stuff and if it, hopefully, doesn't get stuck at customs


----------



## antikryst

My magni has what it looks like to be a small scratch or maybe it's just dirt. Is there a safe way to try and clean that up? Alcohol? Any suggestions? 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## UmustBKidn

neo-st said:


> Thank you. How are you all satisfied with your Magni/Modi combo so far?


 
  
 I really like both. Of my two DAC's, the Modi is definitely the winner - it is clear and detailed without being overly bright and harsh (like my Pure i-20). I can only imagine how much better a Schiit Bifrost is, but for the price, I don't think you can beat a Modi. Hands down awesome for the money.
  
 My Magni, well, I like it but I tend to switch back and forth between it and a hybrid amp (the Bravo V2). In my own comparisons, I have found it to be true that different types of music are best reproduced with different types of amplifiers. The Magni is clean and crisp, but it is not "tubey" and warm. Some people prefer solid state amps, and others prefer tubes or hybrids ... personally, I like both, with different music.
  
 It is kind of hard to write a short summary of why - this is just a road you should travel for yourself, to see what you like best. However, I will say that my M+M stack was my first amp and DAC setup, and it so far has been my benchmark in my short time in this hobby. I have not regretted the purchase.


----------



## Neo-ST

I figured that solid state amps and tubes give distinct sound, but didn't want to risk with tube as being my first amp. I've tried finding on youtube what's the difference in sound itself from a solid state amp vs. tube amp and didn't succeed. There's only videos of guitar tube amps, but not headphone tube amps. I guess I'll just have to buy it one day and see for myself


----------



## UmustBKidn

neo-st said:


> I figured that solid state amps and tubes give distinct sound, but didn't want to risk with tube as being my first amp. I've tried finding on youtube what's the difference in sound itself from a solid state amp vs. tube amp and didn't succeed. There's only videos of guitar tube amps, but not headphone tube amps. I guess I'll just have to buy it one day and see for myself


 
  
 Yes. You really need to. There's no way to really capture the difference in a video or song - this is something you simply need to hear for yourself.
  
 Some people are really passionate about which type of amp they prefer. I like to stay out of those particular passionate discussions, heh. I am the sort of person who likes a variety anyway. I may be an old guy but I can't keep listening to the same music I grew up with forever - that will drive me nuts. So I like to try new things. I wish I had the budget to own the selection of gear that some people on this site seem to own, or have access to. Alas, I am not A Rich Guy (tm), so I make do with what I have.
  
 This hobby has the tendency to make you want more gear. Hang on to your wallet, its going to be an exciting ride, hah.


----------



## roguegeek

neo-st said:


> I figured that solid state amps and tubes give distinct sound, but didn't want to risk with tube as being my first amp. I've tried finding on youtube what's the difference in sound itself from a solid state amp vs. tube amp and didn't succeed. There's only videos of guitar tube amps, but not headphone tube amps. I guess I'll just have to buy it one day and see for myself


 
 Good thing Schiit makes the risk pretty damn low with the Vali then. Try that out at some point.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

umustbkidn said:


> Hang on to your wallet, its going to be an exciting ride, hah.


 
  
 This is perhaps the best advice, ever...I'd keep it in mind. I could have any of our gear on my desk, and this is what I usually listen to:


----------



## roguegeek

jason stoddard said:


> This is perhaps the best advice, ever...I'd keep it in mind. I could have any of our gear on my desk, and this is what I usually listen to:


 
 Jason, if you were an attractive woman, I'd marry you. Ah hell, screw it. Let's just get married.


----------



## markm1

jason stoddard said:


> This is perhaps the best advice, ever...I'd keep it in mind. I could have any of our gear on my desk, and this is what I usually listen to:


 
 What's the headphone you're listening to Jason?


----------



## roguegeek

Alpha Dog?


----------



## worminater

Modi/Asgard2 stack incoming.  Seems to be a good 'jack of all trades' combo; looking forward to it cleaning up my current cable mess.


----------



## Netrum

worminater said:


> Modi/Asgard2 stack incoming.  Seems to be a good 'jack of all trades' combo; looking forward to it cleaning up my current cable mess.



I hope your doing a thorough comparison to your current setup.
Also I have the Asgard 2 and Modi combo. And I love it


----------



## Neo-ST

Did any of you encounter some noise with Modi due to it being USB powered only? I read somewhere that some people needed to buy USB isolator to clean the sound, plug it into powered USB hub or into USB 3.0 port instead of USB 2.0. Just wanted to check with others whether that is a reality or paranoia at work


----------



## roguegeek

There is no noise I have encountered with the Modi ever.


----------



## AladdinSane

roguegeek said:


> Jason, if you were an attractive woman, I'd marry you. Ah hell, screw it. Let's just get married.


 
 You can do that legally in several states. Go for it.


----------



## ejwiles

Mine is dead quiet. 



neo-st said:


> Did any of you encounter some noise with Modi due to it being USB powered only? I read somewhere that some people needed to buy USB isolator to clean the sound, plug it into powered USB hub or into USB 3.0 port instead of USB 2.0. Just wanted to check with others whether that is a reality or paranoia at work


----------



## JayDogon

If I put my laptop to sleep mode with my schiit plugged in I get a weird clicking noise when I turn it on and play something again, the audio also gets choppy. Thats the only time I have noticed noise


----------



## SourceGuy

Vali incoming.  I already have Modi, Bifrost, and Gungnir so I'm new to their amps.  Is there a verdict on the best headphone for this little hybrid?


----------



## Anathallo

sourceguy said:


> Vali incoming.  I already have Modi, Bifrost, and Gungnir so I'm new to their amps.  Is there a verdict on the best headphone for this little hybrid?


 
  
 Looks like Jason is listening to Alpha Dogs, and I would have to agree that most of the T50RP mods sound fantastic with the amp.  A lot of others seem to agree as well (google Paradox Vali, for example).


----------



## Byronb

markm1 said:


> What's the headphone you're listening to Jason?


 
 That is the Alpha Dog. Very awesome hp by Mr Speakers!


----------



## NZheadcase

jaydogon said:


> If I put my laptop to sleep mode with my schiit plugged in I get a weird clicking noise when I turn it on and play something again, the audio also gets choppy. Thats the only time I have noticed noise


 
  
 I have noticed this on my Bifrost as well. It happens only very rarely, and a quick restart of the laptop fixes it up right quick.


----------



## CJs06

nzheadcase said:


> I have noticed this on my Bifrost as well. It happens only very rarely, and a quick restart of the laptop fixes it up right quick.








I had this issue with my Modi. I would get lots of jitter and sometimes Windows would lose connection of the device. I found out, when I used my 3+ FT long USB cable, it causes this issue. I switched to the shorter USB cable that I bought from schiit and that solved the problem.


----------



## UmustBKidn

neo-st said:


> Did any of you encounter some noise with Modi due to it being USB powered only? I read somewhere that some people needed to buy USB isolator to clean the sound, plug it into powered USB hub or into USB 3.0 port instead of USB 2.0. Just wanted to check with others whether that is a reality or paranoia at work


 
  
 No. My Modi is dead quiet. I can turn the Magni gain up WFO and its still dead quiet.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jason stoddard said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> umustbkidn said:
> ...


 
  
 Well said, good sir. I am particularly impressed by the $8000 dollar Stanford Research SR1 right next to the Vali+Modi stack. Now that is sexy. In a geeky, engineery kind of way.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jaydogon said:


> If I put my laptop to sleep mode with my schiit plugged in I get a weird clicking noise when I turn it on and play something again, the audio also gets choppy. Thats the only time I have noticed noise


 
  
 Keyword: laptop.
  
 Personally, I adjust the power settings on every one of my laptops (and my kid's laptops) so that closing the lid doesn't do anything. No sleep, no hibernate, nothing. It just keeps on doing whatever it's doing when I close the lid. I also disable shutting down the hard drives and so forth. I learned a long time ago that most laptops are not rugged enough to withstand the default power/sleep/hibernate settings that Micro$oft defaults to. Never dim the display, never turn it off, never power down the hard drives, never sleep, never hibernate, nada. It's just asking for trouble.


----------



## UmustBKidn

nzheadcase said:


> I have noticed this on my Bifrost as well. It happens only very rarely, and a quick restart of the laptop fixes it up right quick.


 
  
 From a professional software engineer: disable sleep, hibernate, and all power settings in your laptops. And your desktops for that matter. For whatever reason, the PC industry and Micro$oft have never got their collective schiit together when it comes to making hibernate/sleep/turning off hard disks work right. Solution: don't use those features.
  
 The Unix crowd has never attempted this crap. Unix (including Linux) computers tend to run 24/7/365 without needing to reboot for years at a time.
  
 Consider this: powering off the hard disk with the laptop still running means, the computer has to use only whatever is stored in RAM to run, until the hard drive turns back on. But Micro$oft in their infinite wisdom has stored the memory cache on the hard disk. Not in RAM. What happens if the computer needs something stored on the hard disk while it's off? Whoops.
  
 Consider this: hibernate means there's a second copy of everything in RAM stored in a big file in the root directory of your primary hard drive (yeah, a second copy - the first copy is your paging file). Both of those files need to be updated every time something in memory changes. It makes your system slow down, constantly, all day long. It's just not worth the extra overhead and drag on the speed of your system. Want to see them? Open a command prompt, then type:
  
 CD \
 dir /a:h
  
 Look for hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys. The former stores a snapshot of running RAM, the latter stores cache information. You really need pagefile.sys, but you don't need the hibernate file. It'll take some fiddling with the power settings to get rid of it, but I recommend doing so.


----------



## MAGICAL ESKIMO

Just Bought a magni and a modi off of fr45er on the market place  not very often you find someone in the UK selling schiit gear. 
Can't wait!


----------



## fr45er

Its on its way!  You will get them by 13:00 tomorrow


----------



## Zojokkeli

Stupid question. If I wanted to hook my Sennheiser Momentums directly up to Modi, would I need this type of adapter?


----------



## Netrum

zojokkeli said:


> Stupid question. If I wanted to hook my Sennheiser Momentums directly up to Modi, would I need this type of adapter?



You cant hook headphones directly to a dac and expect any sound to come out of it.
You need an amplifier for that.


----------



## Neo-ST

Double RCAs are used to connect Modi with Magni, but then all RCA jacks are used, so you can only connect headphones to front 6.3mm jack...


----------



## Rudiger

netrum said:


> You cant hook headphones directly to a dac and expect any sound to come out of it.
> You need an amplifier for that.


 
 Yes there is sound coming (I've tried), but it sounds bad.


----------



## Tuco1965

Anyone have random audio dropouts on their Bifrost when using ethernet on a laptop?  I normally just use wifi, but I ran an ethernet line to my stack location recently and found that when connected on that it causes random dropouts.  No problem while on wifi though.  I'm puzzled.  Any suggestions for things to look for?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

umustbkidn said:


> Micro$oft


----------



## worminater

netrum said:


> I hope your doing a thorough comparison to your current setup.
> Also I have the Asgard 2 and Modi combo. And I love it


 
 I'll most definitely be doing.   I've loved m e17/e9k combo since I got it; but it just can't handle the 650.  And for whatever reason my o2/ODAC just isn't very good with anything I have *but* my 650s. First world problems.  I'll pick up a tube amp eventually regardless I'm sure but I have high hopes for this combo to be my center point.
  
 Should I expected good tracking number/etc?  I ordered 1/24, and haven't received any updates since(Website still lists as *Order Status:* Magni shipping 4 - 5 days), I wouldn't worry but I'd like to work from home the day this gets delivered due to sub-zero temperatures. (Pennsylvania)


----------



## AnalogSavior

I'm curious, for those who have with Bifrost and Gungnir, do you use S/PDIF in or USB in?  Is one preferred over the other?  If you are coming out of a laptop with optical out, like my MBP, which would be preferred? 
  
 This is purely for my curiosity, as I only have Modi, and don't intend on upgrading soon.  So please, enlighten me.


----------



## roguegeek

analogsavior said:


> I'm curious, for those who have with Bifrost and Gungnir, do you use S/PDIF in or USB in?  Is one preferred over the other?  If you are coming out of a laptop with optical out, like my MBP, which would be preferred?
> 
> This is purely for my curiosity, as I only have Modi, and don't intend on upgrading soon.  So please, enlighten me.


 
 I'm currently using USB on my Bifrost, but I believe I have read someone (possibly on the Schiit site itself) that it was an inferior input. I could be wrong, but that's what my memory is bringing up right now. I don't have a real good understanding why that is. This is coming out of a Mac mini where I could use USB or optical.


----------



## hodgjy

If you get computer noise or a ground loop coming through your system, then use optical as it eliminates this.  If you have occasional USB dropouts, then use optical.
  
 Otherwise, you'll need the ears of a German Shepard to tell the inputs apart in the real world.  Sure, machines can tell them apart in their measurements, but most human ears cannot in blind tests.
  
 Quote:


analogsavior said:


> I'm curious, for those who have with Bifrost and Gungnir, do you use S/PDIF in or USB in?  Is one preferred over the other?  If you are coming out of a laptop with optical out, like my MBP, which would be preferred?
> 
> This is purely for my curiosity, as I only have Modi, and don't intend on upgrading soon.  So please, enlighten me.


----------



## roguegeek

Kind of a stupid question, but whatever. Got in my Bifrost yesterday and all is well. For those of you who bought it brand new, did the selection button come with any plastic on it? Mine appears to either have material over it or is looks very different from the rest of the Bifrost brushed aluminum finish, but I'm too scared to take an exacto to it because I know it can scratch easily.


----------



## huberd

I have tested it with an optical cable and compared it to USB. I can hear that USB sounds slightly better plus USB will take advantage of  the full performance of the unit. Were as optical is limited to 24 bits and it won't play 24 176400 for some reason. This is strange because it does play 24 192000 files without issue. I also had problems with USB in ASIO mode. It will only play 16 bits max so I use Kernel Streaming mode in J River Media Center and all sample rates and bit rates up to 32 bits plays fine. So Kernel Mode with USB is the best for me plus it sounds the best and even better than WASAPI. I believe the ASIO problem is driver related. I did talk to Jason who said they are making progress. Hopefully it will work sometime in the future with ASIO to its full potential but I really like Kernel Mode Streaming so for now it is fine.


----------



## hodgjy

Expectation bias.


----------



## AnalogSavior

Interesting. I know I *probably* wouldn't be able to tell the difference on a blind A/B, but I guess optical takes away some potential interference.

@huberd. I didn't realize there were issues playing 176kHz files. As for being limited to 24 bit, I don't see that as a real issue. I don't think I know of any music higher than 24 bit.


----------



## huberd

The thing is I am using Windows 8.1 which now goes up to 32 bit sound. I haven't seen any music that is recorded with 32 bits either because I don't think it exists. The unit is capable and does work in 32 bit mode with Windows 8.


----------



## HPiper

huberd said:


> The thing is I am using Windows 8.1 which now goes up to 32 bit sound. I haven't seen any music that is recorded with 32 bits either because I don't think it exists. The unit is capable and does work in 32 bit mode with Windows 8.


 

 Don't worry too much, 24bits already exceed the human hearing so 32 bits will only exceed it even more.


----------



## kothganesh

analogsavior said:


> I'm curious, for those who have with Bifrost and Gungnir, do you use S/PDIF in or USB in?  Is one preferred over the other?  If you are coming out of a laptop with optical out, like my MBP, which would be preferred?
> 
> This is purely for my curiosity, as I only have Modi, and don't intend on upgrading soon.  So please, enlighten me.


 
 I go from the USB of my laptop (a Macbook Air) into the SPDIF using a BNC Halide. I tried USB to USB but for some reason, I found the sound to be, gosh, a little thinner. My ears a problem ? Don't know.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE




----------



## MAGICAL ESKIMO

Just got my first stack of Schiit! All I need now is an RCA cable lol so a trip to the local audio shop after work, then the listening can begin!


----------



## Neo-ST

Report your experience...


----------



## HPiper

magical eskimo said:


> Just got my first stack of Schiit! All I need now is an RCA cable lol so a trip to the local audio shop after work, then the listening can begin!


 

 You are going to be in for a treat and it only gets better as they burn-in, that won't take long with solid state though.


----------



## UmustBKidn

blackenedplague said:


>


----------



## brybry24

Which amp/dac is the better option?
  
 Schiit Magni+Modi stack vs Fiio E07K+E09K?
  
 I am looking for an amp/dac to pair with my AKG Q701's and both combos are around the same price. Thanks!


----------



## UmustBKidn

brybry24 said:


> Which amp/dac is the better option?
> 
> Schiit Magni+Modi stack vs Fiio E07K+E09K?
> 
> I am looking for an amp/dac to pair with my AKG Q701's and both combos are around the same price. Thanks!


 
  
 I'm a little biased, just so you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've only tried one piece of Fiio gear and quite honestly, it sucked. Will never buy anything of theirs again.
  
 The Magni+Modi stack is a great entry level system, all day long.


----------



## Rudiger

i think that the vali is better with Q701


----------



## squidwid

Up until today, I had been using a V-Link 192 to go from my Mac mini to my uber bifrost because it didn't have a USB input. I bought and installed the gen2 USB card and thought I'd share the differences.
I wasn't really expecting there to be a big change, but I was surprised how different the two sound. 
1. Right away I noticed MUCH more separation and layering from the gen2 card. 
2. The gen2 card definitely has a lower noise floor.
3. The gen2 card was more resolving of musical information, BUT it's also brighter and I'm not sure if one is causing the other. I'm hoping the new gen2 card mellows out with break-in, otherwise I'm going to seek some copper interconnects instead of my copper/silver ones that I have now. Come to think of it, the whole presentation from the gen2 card sounds like pure silver interconnects or speaker wire. It's very punchy, with bass-drum kicks that seem quicker than what's natural. So in that regard, the V-Link is better because it's more natural sounding.

Usually tone trumps everything for me, but in this case I'm going to act like somebody's girlfriend who sees potential in their new mate and thinks they can change annoying behaviors for the better. 

*edit* Using my HD600's, I swapped out my Cardas cable for the stock 650 cable. That toned things down a bit and now it sounds pretty nice.
All of this will change though because my HD800's arrive on Monday!


----------



## roguegeek

brybry24 said:


> Which amp/dac is the better option?
> 
> Schiit Magni+Modi stack vs Fiio E07K+E09K?
> 
> I am looking for an amp/dac to pair with my AKG Q701's and both combos are around the same price. Thanks!


I own and use both and I prefer the Magni/Modi stack.


----------



## roguegeek

squidwid said:


> Up until today, I had been using a V-Link 192 to go from my Mac mini to my uber bifrost because it didn't have a USB input. I bought and installed the gen2 USB card and thought I'd share the differences.
> I wasn't really expecting there to be a big change, but I was surprised how different the two sound.
> 1. Right away I noticed MUCH more separation and layering from the gen2 card.
> 2. The gen2 card definitely has a lower noise floor.
> ...



Real nice insight there!


----------



## markm1

Is there a consensus that the Vali and Modi is preferable to the Magni and Modi with brightish sounding HP's such as Grados?
  
 I have an Asgard 2 that I listen through an integrated amplifier that has it's own built in DAC which is pretty good-I listen to both a dedicated CDP and streaming sources through that dedicated set up.
  
 But, I don't have a rig for my PC. I listen to most of my music through my dedicated rig since I have all my music digitally saved in lossless files on a NAS which I can access via a streaming system through my dedicated system. But, for times when I want to listen to my PC-Bandcamp, Utube, a music link someone sends me, etc. I want an economical way to listen to my PC that's fairly inexpensive as it accounts for a small percentage of my listening. The Vali/Modi sounds like a nice option since I already have solid state with the A-2.... VS something like a Dragonfly or HRT streamer?


----------



## TontonJoK

Hello all

I might get an schiit lyr to drive my lcd 2.2

I have some Valvo E188CC from an other amp it should be fine ??


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> Is there a consensus that the Vali and Modi is preferable to the Magni and Modi with brightish sounding HP's such as Grados?
> 
> I have an Asgard 2 that I listen through an integrated amplifier that has it's own built in DAC which is pretty good-I listen to both a dedicated CDP and streaming sources through that dedicated set up.
> 
> But, I don't have a rig for my PC. I listen to most of my music through my dedicated rig since I have all my music digitally saved in lossless files on a NAS which I can access via a streaming system through my dedicated system. But, for times when I want to listen to my PC-Bandcamp, Utube, a music link someone sends me, etc. I want an economical way to listen to my PC that's fairly inexpensive as it accounts for a small percentage of my listening. The Vali/Modi sounds like a nice option since I already have solid state with the A-2.... VS something like a Dragonfly or HRT streamer?


 

 i can vouch for the vali , grado combo, great, great pairing !


----------



## Raptor34

hmmm, do i see a Device Switcher box in that  picture?   The one on the left at the back of the desk?   Sure looks like it to me.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I really, reeeally need one of those  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




jason stoddard said:


> This is perhaps the best advice, ever...I'd keep it in mind. I could have any of our gear on my desk, and this is what I usually listen to:


----------



## brybry24

roguegeek said:


> I own and use both and I prefer the Magni/Modi stack.


 
 How big is the difference in sound quality?


----------



## gefski

squidwid said:


> Up until today, I had been using a V-Link 192 to go from my Mac mini to my uber bifrost because it didn't have a USB input. I bought and installed the gen2 USB card and thought I'd share the differences.
> I wasn't really expecting there to be a big change, but I was surprised how different the two sound.
> 1. Right away I noticed MUCH more separation and layering from the gen2 card.
> 2. The gen2 card definitely has a lower noise floor.
> ...




Your impressions point out something I have been experiencing over the last 3-4 years in putting together a computer based desktop system. USB receivers (whether included in the dac or outboard) still have significant differences.

Early on, I purchased a Cambridge DacMagic. Through USB, referencing flac 16/44 rips to the same tracks played via cd on my Rega Apollo, was OK, but lacking life & texture. The use of a Musical Fidelity V-Link brought it much closer. 

Purchase of a Bifrost (Gen 1 USB) was better yet, and I didn't need a USB/SPDIF converter. Upgraded it to Uber Analog and loved it, especially for its dynamics. Did not do the Gen 2 USB board, kept waiting for reviews or impressions. About 3 months ago I saw the bel canto mlink ($375 list) for $200 and got one. Bypassing the (Gen 1) USB input on my Bifrost and feeding via spdif coax was "...hmm this thing really has texture in spades...". Well now a couple months into it and I have to say the improvement is for real.The mlink provides stunning touch, texture, timbre. Absolutely a natural organic feel along with open, airy, clear as a bell transparency. 

I expect to get a chance to hear and compare a Gen 2 USB Bifrost soon. If I like it as well as (or better than) my current setup, I'll be happy to remove the extra black box and cables from my desktop and do the upgrade. But right now this chain, from flac/wav files to headphones, is providing me with tapping toes and huge smiles.


----------



## fenderf4i

jaywillin said:


> i can vouch for the vali , grado combo, great, great pairing !




I hate all of you. Now I HAVE to order one.


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

tontonjok said:


> Hello all
> 
> I might get an schiit lyr to drive my lcd 2.2
> 
> I have some Valvo E188CC from an other amp it should be fine ??


 
  
 yeah they will work great. i had some E188CC/7308 when i had they lyr, they are quality tubes


----------



## roguegeek

brybry24 said:


> How big is the difference in sound quality?


 
 Personally, I find it pretty big. What I would do is listen to what people are saying about the Vali with the Q701 over the Magni. I have not used it, but it sorta makes sense that it would work well.


----------



## ropeadope

Hey guys! Maybe you can help me out. My Modi broke after like 10 or 12 days of use. Has anyone else had an issue like that? It's not totally broken, but one day a couple of weeks ago I came back to my computer after watching 7 hours of football, and I had no sound at all. Nothing. Everything looked to be in order, i double checked all the connections and software stuff, but no sound. So I restarted, and sound came back right away...only, not the same. The right side of my headphones had this sharp buzzing whenever audio is played that is rough on the ears, and the audio was all around flat. I was hoping it wasn't my new NAD Viso HP50 headphones, so I tried out my old pair of headphones and they had the same issue. Tried just plugging in headphones to the computer and didn't have any problems, everything was fine. So I really thought it was my old amp (headsave classic v2) that i've put heavy use into for 10+ years, just thought it finally had run it's course perhaps. So I bought a Magni to go along with my Modi, finally got my Magni in today so I got it set up and....dammit! Same problem. Flat audio with the annoying buzzing in the right ear. I tried new RCA cables, a new USB cable. Then finally hooked up the amp alone to the computer and that was fine as well. If the Modi is involved in any way, I get lots of noise on the right side of my headphones and I get that flat sound along with the buzzing in the right side.
  
 So anyways, yeah...dammit. Was going to see if anyone else had a similar experience. Hopefully the return process won't be too big of a headache.


----------



## UmustBKidn

fenderf4i said:


> I hate all of you. Now I HAVE to order one.


 
  
 How does that saying go...?
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!


----------



## FrZ-Fi

So I am now a proud Schiit head  

My Valhalla and modi came in today. Sound is really great but I have a question. There is a ringing sound after about the midway volume on the Valhalla which becomes louder as volume increases. Is this normal? I am currently using some basic radio Shack cables until my higher quality ones come in. Could those cables be the cause?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

frz-fi said:


> So I am now a proud Schiit head
> 
> My Valhalla and modi came in today. Sound is really great but I have a question. There is a ringing sound after about the midway volume on the Valhalla which becomes louder as volume increases. Is this normal? I am currently using some basic radio Shack cables until my higher quality ones come in. Could those cables be the cause?




Probably not the cables, sounds like tube microphonics. Tap on the amp without music playing, does it produce the sound in your hps


----------



## FrZ-Fi

dailydoseofdaly said:


> Probably not the cables, sounds like tube microphonics. Tap on the amp without music playing, does it produce the sound in your hps




Well the sound is constant while the music isn't playing. I believe it is also present with music just can't be heard over the music. Do you mean tap the tubes while it isn't on?


----------



## Neo-ST

How do you guys think something like* this *would compare to Schiit Magni/Modi combo?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Refrain from internal soundcards if you can


----------



## Neo-ST

I already ordered Magni&Modi, just wondering...


----------



## gefski

frz-fi said:


> Well the sound is constant while the music isn't playing. I believe it is also present with music just can't be heard over the music. Do you mean tap the tubes while it isn't on?




With the amp on, but no music playing, tap the amp, volume knob, tubes, whatever. If you hear the tapping through the headphones, it's a microphonic tube. It's pretty rare; in 20+ years of tube amps, I've had maybe two microphonic tubes. (One was a Telefunken, $$ ouch!)

If it's a constant noise, it could be a Valhalla problem; mine is dead quiet. If you have another amp to substitute in the same chain, you can rule Valhalla in/out.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

gefski said:


> With the amp on, but no music playing, tap the amp, volume knob, tubes, whatever. If you hear the tapping through the headphones, it's a microphonic tube. It's pretty rare; in 20+ years of tube amps, I've had maybe two microphonic tubes. (One was a Telefunken, $$ ouch!)
> 
> If it's a constant noise, it could be a Valhalla problem; mine is dead quiet. If you have another amp to substitute in the same chain, you can rule Valhalla in/out.




Nope doesn't seem like I can hear the tapping. I will try the new cables tomorrow. Really hope it's not defective  

Btw I am using Beyer T90s


----------



## hodgjy

Some tubes are just noisy.  Contact Schiit about getting a replacement set of tubes sent to you.  Cables won't make a ringing noise.  Either the cables work and transmit sound or they won't work and won't transmit sound.
  
 Quote:


frz-fi said:


> So I am now a proud Schiit head
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## roguegeek

neo-st said:


> I already ordered Magni&Modi, just wondering...


 
 To be brief, it wouldn't be good compared to the stack. The dedicated equipment runs circles around implementation like this.


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

Does Schiit ever sell their shirts? I would love to buy one, especially the I ❤ Music one with the Schiit logo.


----------



## peri

Very quick question..........
  
 I already have an Asgard, and I've just ordered a Bifrost.
  
 I'm using it with the PC, and that has an Asus Xonar Essence STX  sound card fitted (http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Essence_STX/)
  
 The motherboard (Asus P6X58D-E) also has an optical out.
  
 Is it recommended to remove the soundcard and use the boards opti-out? Or use the cards output?
  
 Thank you


----------



## roguegeek

peri said:


> Very quick question..........
> 
> I already have an Asgard, and I've just ordered a Bifrost.
> 
> ...


 
 The Bifrost functionally takes the place of any internal sound card so, potentially, you could remove it. You don't have to, though. The biggest question is what are you trying to do? When you buy an STX, you usually buy that for gaming through headphones. If you use the Bifrost instead, you are basically removing any of the Dolby Headphone codecs needed to get proper positional accuracy in games. So, what are you ultimately trying to do?


----------



## peri

As far as I was aware, the STX is aimed at the music market, and isn't seen as a gaming card - I certainly bought it for its music qualities, not its gaming ones. (I've never used it set to anything other than 'hi-fi', even when playing the occasional game).  
  
 I listen to lossless music via pc to hd650's or sr325's - I just want the best sound possible 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## roguegeek

peri said:


> As far as I was aware, the STX is aimed at the music market, and isn't seen as a gaming card - I certainly bought it for its music qualities, not its gaming ones. (I've never used it set to anything other than 'hi-fi', even when playing the occasional game).
> 
> I listen to lossless music via pc to hd650's or sr325's - I just want the best sound possible
> 
> Thanks.


 
 A lot of people purchase them for the Dolby processing built into the card, Dolby Headphone being one of them, and then use an external amp with it because the built-in headphone amp isn't anything to rave about. It's a really great card for multiple reasons, so I guess that's why I'm wonder why you replaced it with a Bifrost. No matter, though. Just understand that using the Bifrost takes the place of the STX and, therefore, you wont have access to any of the STX features such as Dolby Digital Live, Dolby Headphone, Dolby Virtual Speaker, Dolby Pro-Logic II, or the GX Game Audio Engine. Sounds like you weren't using it for any of that before anyway, so no big loss.
  
 Back to your question, there's no point in using the optical out on your STX if you have optical on the motherboard. You're just wasting an expensive sound card on being nothing but an optical port at that point. Plug the Bifrost directly into the optical port or USB port from the main motherboard and you'll be fine. You can also remove the STX completely instead of just letting it sit there and collect dust.
  
If you are happening to get rid of it, let me know. I'd be interested in picking it up from you if the price is right.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

hodgjy said:


> Some tubes are just noisy.  Contact Schiit about getting a replacement set of tubes sent to you.  Cables won't make a ringing noise.  Either the cables work and transmit sound or they won't work and won't transmit sound.


 
 Replacement tubes ordered, really hope it fixes the issue :/
  
 Thanks for your help guys


----------



## kothganesh

Switched my new Vali for the Lyr into my Bifrost (non-Uber) and listening to my HE 500. This is amazing music coming out of the tiny box. I can only repeat what Purrin said some time ago "This is tubes done right".


----------



## peri

@roguegeek.
  
 Thanks a lot. 
  
 I wasn't sure if leaving the soundcard and drivers installed would affect the sound  in some way.


----------



## UmustBKidn

peri said:


> @roguegeek.
> 
> Thanks a lot.
> 
> I wasn't sure if leaving the soundcard and drivers installed would affect the sound  in some way.


 
  
 The days of plugging a lot of expansion cards into desktop computers is, by and large, gone. Twenty years ago, buying expansion cards for video, audio, Ethernet, modems, etc was standard operating procedure after buying a new computer. This all comes standard now, on even cheap motherboards. Asus is one of the top motherboard brands, and using the optical out directly from the mobo for your audio is absolutely the best choice.
  
 The only reason you'd ever need to get an audio expansion card is if the optical output fails for some reason - or if your mobo didn't have one in the first place. Ditto if something else fails (I've had multiple computers where the Ethernet port fails, so I need to go buy a cheapo Ethernet card).
  
 The only expansion cards I ever see widely advertised any more are video cards, and there is good reason for that - even a cheap video card vastly improves the speed, quality, etc of video, especially for games. The modern GPU is so amazing, they are now being used by themselves to create things like phones and tablet computers.
  
 Keeping an unused expansion card (of any kind) in the computer won't affect anything except perhaps power consumption. Most pre built computers use power supplies that are just enough to power what comes stock on the machine. For example, one of the last desktops I purchased only had a 200 watt power supply. That's just fine for me because I haven't added anything in (yet). However, if I decide I want to go buy a mongo super extra deluxe video card, 200 watts might not be enough just for the video card (lol). So a new power supply would need to be installed. Conversely, if you're not using the audio card for something, unplug it. You'll save some energy, probably a tiny bit of money, and your machine will run cooler.


----------



## hsubox

Well, in a fit of retail therapy, I ordered myself a Bifrost w/USB, which should be here in the next few days. I've had a Modi for about a year, so hopefully the Bifrost will be a great armchair-listening DAC. I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## jexby

{edit}
 well enjoy the new Bifrost, mine has served me well for many months now!


----------



## ahille1234

What would guys say is the best Schiit DAC/Amp combination for somebody on a budget?


----------



## Burock74

Which Schiit amp/dac suggest for Metal/Rock music with HD650 ? (Source macbook pro)


----------



## joebobbilly

ahille1234 said:


> What would guys say is the best Schiit DAC/Amp combination for somebody on a budget?




Depends on the budget. What is your range? max amt you'll be willing to spend? what phones are you driving?


----------



## ahille1234

Im hoping to stay under 300. Not really planning on driving anything specifically, this is more of a future purchase.


----------



## Defiant00

ahille1234 said:


> Im hoping to stay under 300. Not really planning on driving anything specifically, this is more of a future purchase.


 
  
 Under 300 you're looking at Modi + Magni or Vali. Magni is more generally useful, but Vali is better for specific cans.
  
 Alternately, you can go a little more expensive and do Modi + Asgard 2, which is a much more versatile setup than either of the cheaper amps.


----------



## antikryst

chrismclaughlin said:


> Does Schiit ever sell their shirts? I would love to buy one, especially the I ❤ Music one with the Schiit logo.




They should. I'll get one if the price isn't unreasonable. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## PXSS

defiant00 said:


> ahille1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Im hoping to stay under 300. Not really planning on driving anything specifically, this is more of a future purchase.
> ...


OR!!!! Magni/Modi/Vali stack for $320.


----------



## jaywillin

pxss said:


> OR!!!! Magni/Modi/Vali stack for $320.


 

 ^^^^^^^^^^second!^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## noobandroid

antikryst said:


> They should. I'll get one if the price isn't unreasonable.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


 
 since when do schiit sell things "unreasonable"?


----------



## squib323

Hey guys, I currently have Asgard 1 and HRT music streamer II (DAC). I feel like upgrading. I think I'll definitely upgrade my HRT to a Bifrost, but I don't know what to upgrade my Asgard 1 to. I don't know if I want to get a Lyr, I've never used a tube amp and it seems like dealing with them is a huge hassle. Is Asgard 2 a reasonable step up from Asgard 1? I currently have HD600s... and _might_ get HE400s soon. Any suggestions?


----------



## Dionysus

I have the Senn HD700 and Fedex has my Vali/Modi stack anyone have any experience with this stack that can provide some input. thx in advance.


----------



## Defiant00

antikryst said:


> They should. I'll get one if the price isn't unreasonable.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


 
  
 Shirts?
  
 http://schiit.spreadshirt.com/
  
 Jason posted this link a while ago, but it seems like I might've been the only one to actually bookmark it.


----------



## roguegeek

dionysus said:


> I have the Senn HD700 and Fedex has my Vali/Modi stack anyone have any experience with this stack that can provide some input. thx in advance.


 
 I know that you picked the right stack if it was a choice between Magni and Vali. Magni is far to bright for the already bright HD 700. I used it on my HD 700 for about a week before I bought the Lyr to power them instead.


----------



## fenderf4i

So, I know that the analog output card and the USB card in the Bifrost are replaceable and upgradeable.

My question is, what else, if anything, is upgradeable in the Bifrost without replacing the main board?


----------



## Defiant00

fenderf4i said:


> So, I know that the analog output card and the USB card in the Bifrost are replaceable and upgradeable.
> 
> My question is, what else, if anything, is upgradeable in the Bifrost without replacing the main board?


 
  
 Those are the only things that we've been told about (as far as I'm aware).


----------



## Dionysus

roguegeek said:


> I know that you picked the right stack if it was a choice between Magni and Vali. Magni is far to bright for the already bright HD 700. I used it on my HD 700 for about a week before I bought the Lyr to power them instead.


 
 thank you, yeah I have the Asus Essence One with Muses opamps and it sounds terrific, but I want to see if the Vali /Modi will be a nice addition, as I wanted a little portable system for my corner lazyboy setup and get a small taste of the tube and the HD700, Thanks again.


----------



## roguegeek

dionysus said:


> thank you, yeah I have the Asus Essence One with Muses opamps and it sounds terrific, but I want to see if the Vali /Modi will be a nice addition, as I wanted a little portable system for my corner lazyboy setup and get a small taste of the tube and the HD700, Thanks again.


 
 Sounds like you made a good choice. Head over to the HD 700 thread and throw in your thoughts after you've gotten it all together. Would love to read them.


----------



## Dionysus

roguegeek said:


> Sounds like you made a good choice. Head over to the HD 700 thread and throw in your thoughts after you've gotten it all together. Would love to read them.


 

 cool.. will do.


----------



## ropeadope

Is it better to leave an amp on all the time or turn it off and on as needed? I would guess the latter but just making sure. Want these suckers to last as long as possible.


----------



## noobandroid

ropeadope said:


> Is it better to leave an amp on all the time or turn it off and on as needed? I would guess the latter but just making sure. Want these suckers to last as long as possible.



I do it on and off


----------



## FrZ-Fi

So seems like a I had some interference causing my ringing noise in the Valhalla. Improved it completely going to another room, so have to find the cause next to my pc. I'm thinking it's the power outlets near my computer. Anyways here's a pic for you guys


----------



## john57

It could be the tubes are quite close to the monitor and the tubes could pickup interference from the backlight brightness control. Try different positions and see if it makes a difference. Tube amps can pick up interference from wireless devices as well.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

john57 said:


> It could be the tubes are quite close to the monitor and the tubes could pickup interference from the backlight brightness control. Try different positions and see if it makes a difference. Tube amps can pick up interference from wireless devices as well.




Tried the amp away from the monitor as well unplugging my wifi router and it didn't help.


----------



## HPiper

Simple and to the point question. I am looking at getting one of two phones, either HD700 or HD800. Question is, how will these sound out of the Lyr. I thought of getting some other Schiit amp, Valhalla or A2 but I am kind of looking more at the Lyr for two reasons. One is it's versatility being able to competently drive a wide variety of phones and the other is while it is a hybrid, I do prefer tube amps. So, given those phones, good choice? Any other options in the $400-$600 range. A bit later I do plan on getting a Vali but concentrating on my main system for now. It shouldn't make any difference but I will also be getting a Bifrost Uber for the front end of whatever amp I end up getting.


----------



## Dionysus

roguegeek said:


> Sounds like you made a good choice. Head over to the HD 700 thread and throw in your thoughts after you've gotten it all together. Would love to read them.




Rogue I setup the Vali/ Modi combo and posted my initial thoughts in the NEW Vali Schiit AMP thread.


----------



## CrunchyChick

Got my Vali/Modi today so now is as good a time as any to stop lurking ; Now I can be an official Schiit-Head.
  
 First thing I did with Vali was plug my hd600's into it and whack it.  I have to tap it pretty good or turn volume all the way to 0 so it "hits" the 0 spot to get an microphonics.
  
 Had some white noise from modi which was fixed (? hopefully) by turning off the pesky "Allow windows to turn off this device to save power".
  
 So far loving the combo, I can't believe how much of the music I was missing with my HD439's and this guy:


----------



## squib323

squib323 said:


> Hey guys, I currently have Asgard 1 and HRT music streamer II (DAC). I feel like upgrading. I think I'll definitely upgrade my HRT to a Bifrost, but I don't know what to upgrade my Asgard 1 to. I don't know if I want to get a Lyr, I've never used a tube amp and it seems like dealing with them is a huge hassle. Is Asgard 2 a reasonable step up from Asgard 1? I currently have HD600s... and _might_ get HE400s soon. Any suggestions?


 
 Any help?


----------



## john57

Have you already changed the tubes? Ringing is usually the tubes becoming mic-phonic.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

john57 said:


> Have you already changed the tubes? Ringing is usually the tubes becoming mic-phonic.




Yup ordered brand new tubes from Schiit. I'm certain it's some sort of interference, and I'm almost positive it's from the power outlet.


----------



## roguegeek

hpiper said:


> Simple and to the point question. I am looking at getting one of two phones, either HD700 or HD800. Question is, how will these sound out of the Lyr. I thought of getting some other Schiit amp, Valhalla or A2 but I am kind of looking more at the Lyr for two reasons. One is it's versatility being able to competently drive a wide variety of phones and the other is while it is a hybrid, I do prefer tube amps. So, given those phones, good choice? Any other options in the $400-$600 range. A bit later I do plan on getting a Vali but concentrating on my main system for now. It shouldn't make any difference but I will also be getting a Bifrost Uber for the front end of whatever amp I end up getting.




If you read the HD 700 thread, you'll see a lot of happy people using the Lyr with Orange Globe tubes. Go for the Lyr.


----------



## roguegeek

squib323 said:


> Any help?



The HD 600 pairs nicely with the Lyr. Nothing pairs well with the HE-400 because it's an awful can.


----------



## squib323

roguegeek said:


> The HD 600 pairs nicely with the Lyr. Nothing pairs well with the HE-400 because it's an awful can.


 

 Haha, really? _Awful_? I guess I have been seeing more and more complaints regarding it; sibilance, faulty cables, etc.
  
 Are you using stock tubes for the Lyr when pairing with HD600s?


----------



## Tuco1965

squib323 said:


> Haha, really? _Awful_? I guess I have been seeing more and more complaints regarding it; sibilance, faulty cables, etc.
> 
> Are you using stock tubes for the Lyr when pairing with HD600s?


 
 I'm using stock tubes with my Lyr 600 combo and it sounds great.  The tube rolling thread has lots of recommendations though.  I have hundreds of hours on both of my sets of tubes.


----------



## UmustBKidn

crunchychick said:


> Got my Vali/Modi today so now is as good a time as any to stop lurking ; Now I can be an official Schiit-Head.
> 
> First thing I did with Vali was plug my hd600's into it and whack it.  I have to tap it pretty good or turn volume all the way to 0 so it "hits" the 0 spot to get an microphonics.
> 
> Had some white noise from modi which was fixed (? hopefully) by turning off the pesky "Allow windows to turn off this device to save power".


 
  
 Welcome to the club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I remain curious as to why the first thing people do with their Vali's is to hit it. "Yep, it rings!" LOL.
  
 I don't know why you'd need to let windows turn off your Modi. I've never seen that. I have my Modi plugged into my laptop constantly, whether it is being used or not. It doesn't make a difference at all. And it's plugged into a 4-way USB hub. No issues with that at all. You may want to check your cable(s). There should be no noise coming from your Modi at all.


----------



## ropeadope

frz-fi said:


> Tried the amp away from the monitor as well unplugging my wifi router and it didn't help.


 
 Hey FrZ, sounds like a really annoying problem. Did you also try taking your Modi out to the other computer? If not, try that, or completely bypassing the Modi. That could be the issue. I had a problem with a Modi recently but it wasn't a ringing sound, so it doesn't sound like the same problem. The issue on mine was noise in the right ear even when no audio was playing.
  
 Ever since I got my replacement Modi yesterday, I'm honestly scared to use it, like it has a very limited number of hours on it before it goes bad like the last one , but it will probably end up lasting 10+ years. Oh well, time to tough it out and get back to some music!


----------



## FrZ-Fi

ropeadope said:


> Hey FrZ, sounds like a really annoying problem. Did you also try taking your Modi out to the other computer? If not, try that, or completely bypassing the Modi. That could be the issue. I had a problem with a Modi recently but it wasn't a ringing sound, so it doesn't sound like the same problem. The issue on mine was noise in the right ear even when no audio was playing.
> 
> Ever since I got my replacement Modi yesterday, I'm honestly scared to use it, like it has a very limited number of hours on it before it goes bad like the last one , but it will probably end up lasting 10+ years. Oh well, time to tough it out and get back to some music!




I used a laptop and took the modi and Valhalla to another room yesterday, it was working perfect. That's why I'm trying to pinpoint the problem in the room I want to keep them in. My modi is only a week old though. How did yours break?


----------



## squib323

tuco1965 said:


> I'm using stock tubes with my Lyr 600 combo and it sounds great.  The tube rolling thread has lots of recommendations though.  I have hundreds of hours on both of my sets of tubes.


 

 Thanks! After a lot of scouring through the forums and thought... I think I may just hop over and go for Mjolnir + Gungnir. I don't think I will be able to deal with the option paralysis the tubes will give me lol. I'm also looking at LCD-2 now, rather than HE-400s, and it seems like this setup will serve it better.


----------



## aleibo39

brybry24 said:


> Which amp/dac is the better option?
> 
> Schiit Magni+Modi stack vs Fiio E07K+E09K?
> 
> I am looking for an amp/dac to pair with my AKG Q701's and both combos are around the same price. Thanks!


 
 I'm currently using the Vali/Modi combo with my AKG's, and I couldn't be happier with the outcome!  I've listened to a friends' Fiio and it also sounded very nice with my AKG's, but I prefer the Vali/Modi combo.


----------



## roguegeek

squib323 said:


> Haha, really? _Awful_? I guess I have been seeing more and more complaints regarding it; sibilance, faulty cables, etc.
> 
> Are you using stock tubes for the Lyr when pairing with HD600s?




Hehe. In my opinion, yeah, awful. Sold my pair a handful of weeks ago after having them for a year and there's nothing I'm missing with them.

I've used stock tubes on the HD 600 and they sound good. The Orange Globes sound better. Purchasing some Bugle Boys this weekend.


----------



## CrunchyChick

umustbkidn said:


> Welcome to the club
> 
> I remain curious as to why the first thing people do with their Vali's is to hit it. "Yep, it rings!" LOL.
> 
> I don't know why you'd need to let windows turn off your Modi. I've never seen that. I have my Modi plugged into my laptop constantly, whether it is being used or not. It doesn't make a difference at all. And it's plugged into a 4-way USB hub. No issues with that at all. You may want to check your cable(s). There should be no noise coming from your Modi at all.




Ah, no, Windows' default setting is to turn usb power off to save power. It never actually turned modi off, but that setting was giving me white noise and disabling it fixed that.

And after all the "Lord of the Rings" comments I couldn't help myself ; I had to hit it .


----------



## worminater

Got my Modi + Valhalla combo last night.  ~5 hours total on it and impressed so far.  What surprises me the most is my Allesandro MS1s are dead silent through it; as my first Tube; I expected hiss with 32Ohms; but sofar it's actually much cleaner than my O2+Odac.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

worminater said:


> Got my Modi + Valhalla combo last night.  ~5 hours total on it and impressed so far.  What surprises me the most is my Allesandro MS1s are dead silent through it; as my first Tube; I expected hiss with 32Ohms; but sofar it's actually much cleaner than my O2+Odac.




We have the same combo  

It is quite impressive.


----------



## hsubox

Look what the Fedex guy dropped off today! Giving it a listen now.


----------



## Tuco1965

Very Nice!  Treat your ears now.


----------



## hsubox

tuco1965 said:


> Very Nice!  Treat your ears now.





Doing so now! First up is Explosions in the Sky's "Take Care, Take Care, Take Care" followed by Jonsi's "Go"


----------



## FrZ-Fi

Do you guys leave your tube amps on? I dunno if I should turn the Valhalla off while not in use. Also should I leave some music constantly playing for a few hrs to help burn in or is that not recommended. Thanks


----------



## Byronb

I always turn my Valhalla off when not in use. Tubes have a finite life and I want to listen to every minute of that life span, not have it wasted by running when I am not using it! As for burn in, tubes do need a bit of time to hit their stride so that isn't a bad idea.


----------



## Tuco1965

I definitely turn off my Lyr when not in use.  As far as burning in the tubes goes, I just listen to them.  Whatever works for you though.


----------



## jaywillin

frz-fi said:


> Do you guys leave your tube amps on? I dunno if I should turn the Valhalla off while not in use. Also should I leave some music constantly playing for a few hrs to help burn in or is that not recommended. Thanks


 
 for me, if i'm only going to be "away" a short time, an hour or so, or less, i'll leave it on
 any more than that, i'll turn it off, i could be wrong, but cycling too much on/off/on/off , doesn't seem like a good idea


----------



## hodgjy

Tubes are much stronger than you think.  They have no problem with repeated on/off cycles.  Many of their originally intended uses often called for them to cycle.
  
 When not in use, I always turn my tube amps off.  Tubes have a finite life and leaving them on unattended is a bad, bad idea.  For example, if they were to fail or arc, and you aren't there to pull the plug, you can do damage to your amp and headphones.


----------



## jaywillin

hodgjy said:


> Tubes are much stronger than you think.  They have no problem with repeated on/off cycles.  Many of their originally intended uses often called for them to cycle.
> 
> When not in use, I always turn my tube amps off.  Tubes have a finite life and leaving them on unattended is a bad, bad idea.  For example, if they were to fail or arc, and you aren't there to pull the plug, you can do damage to your amp and headphones.


 

 point taken, thanks


----------



## Matro5

hsubox said:


> Doing so now! First up is Explosions in the Sky's "Take Care, Take Care, Take Care" followed by Jonsi's "Go"




I like your style.


----------



## hsubox

matro5 said:


> I like your style.




Thanks!


----------



## MrPanda

Just ordered a Bifrost and an Asgard 2.   I hope to upgrade to a Lyr before too long, but cash flow has delayed that.  My main headphones are AKG K712, AKG Q701, Beyer DT-770-80's and AKG K340 for some things.. 
 I think I might be able to officially join the group now...
  
 The Schiit stack is replacing a FiiO E17/E09k


----------



## hsubox

mrpanda said:


> Just ordered a Bifrost and an Asgard 2.   I hope to upgrade to a Lyr before too long, but cash flow has delayed that.  My main headphones are AKG K712, AKG Q701, Beyer DT-770-80's and AKG K340 for some things..
> I think I might be able to officially join the group now...
> 
> The Schiit stack is replacing a FiiO E17/E09k




Give the Asgard 2 a chance. It is a hell of an amp. You may not even feel like you need a Lyr! I gave the A2 a listen on my Q701 at a headfi meet last month and really enjoyed it.


----------



## MrPanda

Thanks Hsu..  I'm really looking forward to the Schiit stack..  it should arrive in the next week or so.  The K712's are just a little <<tamer>> at the top than the Q701, so if it sounded great with them, it's very encouraging!


----------



## ropeadope

frz-fi said:


> My modi is only a week old though. How did yours break?


 
  
 Something went haywire after a couple of weeks of use, audio went super flat and there was a lot of noise in the right ear even when no sound was playing. The one that broke was ordered in very late December. Hoping it was just a fluke, I suspect it was, but still nervous none the less


----------



## UmustBKidn

hodgjy said:


> Tubes are much stronger than you think.  They have no problem with repeated on/off cycles.  Many of their originally intended uses often called for them to cycle.
> 
> When not in use, I always turn my tube amps off.  Tubes have a finite life and leaving them on unattended is a bad, bad idea.  For example, if they were to fail or arc, and you aren't there to pull the plug, you can do damage to your amp and headphones.


 
  
 Agree. The only point I would add is, when you first start using a set of tubes in a new amp (such as this Valhalla), I would give them about a day of use, before expecting the best out of them. Modern tubes are already burned in to some extent before they ever leave the factory, but a little bit will still probably occur when you first use them.
  
 If/when you start rolling tubes, if you purchase any vintage items from eBay, I would also run them a while before expecting the best from them. Tubes that have been sitting for a long while (decades in the case of some vintage tubes), need to run for a bit to get back into shape.


----------



## Snips

Rather low quality pic since I used my phone, but the Vali + Uberfrost's finally here! Unfortunately I have to settle for staring at them since I don't have my headphones with me


----------



## kothganesh

snips said:


> Rather low quality pic since I used my phone, but the Vali + Uberfrost's finally here! Unfortunately I have to settle for staring at them since I don't have my headphones with me



What HP(s) do you plan to use ?


----------



## Snips

HD600. I'm probably getting it back from my friend at the end of the week.


----------



## hodgjy

snips said:


> HD600. I'm probably getting it back from my friend at the end of the week.


 
 This is by far my favorite set of cans.  It does so many things well.


----------



## noobandroid

still thinking should i replace my dacport lx to modi? hmm


----------



## HTFreak

Is there any dt-990 premium 250ohm and Magni+Modi owners here? Some says brightness may be a concern for these combos? And would like to know if i can hear the difference vs. avr as this is quite cheap package? 

 Refering to this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/698515/vali-vs-magni-vs-o2/15#post_10252584

 Thx!


----------



## worminater

mrpanda said:


> Just ordered a Bifrost and an Asgard 2.   I hope to upgrade to a Lyr before too long, but cash flow has delayed that.  My main headphones are AKG K712, AKG Q701, Beyer DT-770-80's and AKG K340 for some things..
> I think I might be able to officially join the group now...
> 
> The Schiit stack is replacing a FiiO E17/E09k


 
 On the cans you listed; the Asgard 2 might perform better. Pure power isn't always better ...


----------



## mostafa

Hello Guys. I recently got my shipment form Schiit Audio, Magni / Modi stack combo.  Previously I had Sound Blaster ZX sound card. After removing the sound card and connecting the stack combo, I noticed that sound is not the same. I feel the sound card was noticeably better than the stack combo. I use Ultrasone Pro 550. 
  
 Could it be that the speakers is not powerful enough for the Stack / Combo ?! Should I consider buying better AMP/DAC/Headphone ?


----------



## noobandroid

mostafa said:


> Hello Guys. I recently got my shipment form Schiit Audio, Magni / Modi stack combo.  Previously I had Sound Blaster ZX sound card. After removing the sound card and connecting the stack combo, I noticed that sound is not the same. I feel the sound card was noticeably better than the stack combo. I use Ultrasone Pro 550.
> 
> Could it be that the speakers is not powerful enough for the Stack / Combo ?! Should I consider buying better AMP/DAC/Headphone ?


 
 you might have got used to overly colored sound until you got brain washed, give the stack some adaptation time, and you will love it


----------



## mostafa

well... let's take battlefield 4 for instance. when I shoot RPG rockets... It's so loud.. but while choosing a spawn point... it's way lower than before.. and I think foot steps are gone now. Can't hear people coming to stab me in the back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
 Maybe the headphones can't cope with the stack ?!!
  
  
 What is the better ? turning the AMP volume to max and reduce sound on PC ? or raise PC to max and AMP to 50% ? or combination between both ?!


----------



## CrunchyChick

mostafa said:


> well... let's take battlefield 4 for instance. when I shoot RPG rockets... It's so loud.. but while choosing a spawn point... it's way lower than before.. and I think foot steps are gone now. Can't hear people coming to stab me in the back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well yeah, your sound card is built to do 3d positional sound processing.  In other words, trick your ears into thinking sound is behind/above/in front of you in games. Magni/Modi should be better for music and movies, keep the sound card for games IMO.
  
 And the general rule is to always have your computers' output at 100% and then adjust the amplifier volume for best quality, but you can do a combination and likely won't notice a difference.


----------



## smellyfungus

mostafa said:


> well... let's take battlefield 4 for instance. when I shoot RPG rockets... It's so loud.. but while choosing a spawn point... it's way lower than before.. and I think foot steps are gone now. Can't hear people coming to stab me in the back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i play cs:go using the the same stack w akg 702-65. i can hear footsteps clearly and haven't had any issues. for the PC side of things i set it to max and adjust on the amp as needed.
  
 i dunno if there were some software settings for the sound blaster that would amplify certain sounds on games. just make sure your audio settings are set to headphones in game. for windows i have it set to 24/44.1hz and disabled all enhancements.


----------



## mostafa

Thanks guys for your reply. For the time being, I will be removing the sound card... as the main reason I got the AMP/DAC was to remove the sound card as it ruins the inside of the PC.
  
 Here's my I want to remove it. Covering those custom made backplates 
  
 http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d139/shi7aa/IMG_0998_zpse2d2e6fd.jpg
  
 For Audio Playback, I noticed it is same or better. But for games, the sound card definitely wins. maybe because of all the special SBX software that comes with the sound card.
  
 I will consider buying a better headphones... Maybe Philips fidelio X1 or better.
  
 Thanks for the Tips guys


----------



## noobandroid

mostafa said:


> well... let's take battlefield 4 for instance. when I shoot RPG rockets... It's so loud.. but while choosing a spawn point... it's way lower than before.. and I think foot steps are gone now. Can't hear people coming to stab me in the back
> 
> Maybe the headphones can't cope with the stack ?!!
> 
> ...


 pc max. control via amp


----------



## MrPanda

Thanks, I'm really looking forward to the Bifrost and Asgard 2 over the next week or so...  it will be really interesting trying out the K340's with them, they're difficult headphones...


----------



## Amictus

To Gungnir or not to Gungnir? Every day my Lyr looks at me and gestures at the DAC beside it, looking reproachful. "I came all the way over an ocean to bring you the gift of music, and look what you hooked me up with!" That what it says. I am in a quandary. Light tubes for me.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

get a bifrost and call it a day


----------



## Tuco1965

blackenedplague said:


> get a bifrost and call it a day


 
 A good day at that!


----------



## moz

Having only owned solid-state amps for years I finally took the plunge and ordered a Valhalla -- seemed like it was in-stock when I ordered but it's apparently backordered until 02/21. Looking forward to it though, my T90 should be a good match.


----------



## HPiper

moz said:


> Having only owned solid-state amps for years I finally took the plunge and ordered a Valhalla -- seemed like it was in-stock when I ordered but it's apparently backordered until 02/21. Looking forward to it though, my T90 should be a good match.


 

 I heard that exact combination (Valhalla and T90) at a recent meet and it is a very good match. You are in for a treat.


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> To Gungnir or not to Gungnir? Every day my Lyr looks at me and gestures at the DAC beside it, looking reproachful. "I came all the way over an ocean to bring you the gift of music, and look what you hooked me up with!" That what it says. I am in a quandary. Light tubes for me.


 
 So your equipment is talking to each other these days huh ? Get the Bifrost or the Uber and the Lyr will grin. Get the Gungnir and who knows, the Lyr may hug you. Please send some pictures if these things happen


----------



## olor1n

amictus said:


> To Gungnir or not to Gungnir? Every day my Lyr looks at me and gestures at the DAC beside it, looking reproachful. "I came all the way over an ocean to bring you the gift of music, and look what you hooked me up with!" That what it says. I am in a quandary. Light tubes for me. :confused_face(1):




The Gungnir isn't a great match for the HD800 IME. Skim through this *thread* for impressions from myself and others.


----------



## Amictus

olor1n said:


> The Gungnir isn't a great match for the HD800 IME. Skim through this *thread* for impressions from myself and others.


 

 Thanks for that. Too late! I have ordered it, but I did read the thread carefully and noted reservations about the HD800 and its compatibility with the Gungnir. Basically, the verdict seemed to be Mjolnir yes, Gungnir not so much. I am gambling on the Lyr, carefully tubed, softening the slightly strident effect that some people find with the Gungnir/HD800 combo. Not to mention my 61-year-old ears. Also, I have three locations for which to provide a headphone station, so I have some flexibility about combinations of equipment.
  
 I would also like to make it clear that the fact that the Gungnir is drop-dead gorgeous played no part in my decision. None whatever. No. On no account. Er...


----------



## HiVLTAGE

So I've owned my Magni and Modi combo for about a month now, and I have to say that I just adore it. Really looking to get some higher impedance cans to try with this combo, maybe the HD650's.


----------



## olor1n

amictus said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > The Gungnir isn't a great match for the HD800 IME. Skim through this *thread* for impressions from myself and others.
> ...


 
  
 The Lyr was my amp before the Mjolnir. It was still in the stable when I owned the Gungnir so I have lived with the system you are now putting together. I'd recommend rolling some Amperex Bugle Boys (60's Herleen factory O-getters) to dial in some surprising synergy with the HD800. Enjoy.


----------



## Amictus

olor1n said:


> The Lyr was my amp before the Mjolnir. It was still in the stable when I owned the Gungnir so I have lived with the system you are now putting together. I'd recommend rolling some Amperex Bugle Boys (60's Herleen factory O-getters) to dial in some surprising synergy with the HD800. Enjoy.


 
 By chance, I have rolled exactly those tubes into the Lyr, giving the Telefunken E88CCs a rest. I'll leave them there until the Gungnir comes - thanks for the tip!


----------



## tuna47

I have bugle boys orange globes and others have just started using the telefunkens they are now my favorites


----------



## jaywillin

tuna47 said:


> I have bugle boys orange globes and others have just started using the telefunkens they are now my favorites


 

 tele's my fav, 69 og, close second
 the tele were 62's


----------



## CrunchyChick

amictus said:


> To Gungnir or not to Gungnir? Every day my Lyr looks at me and gestures at the DAC beside it, looking reproachful. "I came all the way over an ocean to bring you the gift of music, and look what you hooked me up with!" That what it says. I am in a quandary. Light tubes for me.


 
 Sounds like a serious case of Upgraditis to me.


----------



## Amictus

crunchychick said:


> Sounds like a serious case of Upgraditis to me.


 
 Chronic, not terminal.


----------



## MrPanda

The Bifrost just arrived today, so now I'm official... hoping to see the Asgard 2 arrive sometime over the next several days.
  
 No more clicks and pops on high res recordings.  I tried the "French Organ Music" set from BIS, done at 24/192.  Played flawlessly.
 My old DAC just couldn't do it...   looking forward to the Asgard 2 - just got my "shipped" status email today.


----------



## paradoxper

olor1n said:


> The Gungnir isn't a great match for the HD800 IME. Skim through this *thread* for impressions from myself and others.


 
 Not when paired with Mjolnir, but with Lyr, I think he'll be okay.


----------



## Amictus

paradoxper said:


> Not when paired with Mjolnir, but with Lyr, I think he'll be okay.


 

 I'll let you know. Fedex predict delivery when I am away. Sigh.


----------



## mostafa

Hey guys... I have the Magni / Modi Stack combo. I have the Ultrasone Pro-Logic 550. I was happy with the sound card "Creative Sound Blaster ZX" but I wanted to try out the Magni / Modi Stack Combo. And also I wanted to remove the sound card from inside the PC because it was covering custom back plate of the second 780 GTX. 
  
 I am not very happy with the sound during gaming. The sound is no where near the sound card. I don't want to put the sound card back so I am thinking of buying a better headphone "though it was working fine with the sound card" 
  
 Not sure if that is going to make any difference. What I have in mind is HE-400, DT-990 (32, 250, or 600Ohms), Philips Fidelio X1.
  
  
 what do you think guys ?!


----------



## Neo-ST

I have neither (yet), but isn't ZX dedicated card for gaming, where Magni/Modi is dedicated HiFi system for music and movies?


----------



## Snips

mostafa said:


> Hey guys... I have the Magni / Modi Stack combo. I have the Ultrasone Pro-Logic 550. I was happy with the sound card "Creative Sound Blaster ZX" but I wanted to try out the Magni / Modi Stack Combo. And also I wanted to remove the sound card from inside the PC because it was covering custom back plate of the second 780 GTX.
> 
> I am not very happy with the sound during gaming. The sound is no where near the sound card. I don't want to put the sound card back so I am thinking of buying a better headphone "though it was working fine with the sound card"
> 
> ...


 
  
 What do you mean by "no where near the sound card"? Do you mean that you can't hear the foot steps of enemies in FPS games etc? If so then I'm not surprised. Amps and DACs aren't meant for gaming after all. They are meant for music. 
  
 If you enjoy your Ultrasone with your Schiit stack for music I would recommend that you get a separate pair of gaming headphones dedicated for gaming instead. Something like the Corsair stuff with their virtual 7.1.


----------



## mostafa

Thanks for the help guys. I don't want to insert the sound card back inside the PC. It really ruins the looks inside. So I am left with either on board audio , or AMP/ DAC.
  
 I think changing the headphones won't make any difference... in Gaming... but definitely in Audio / Video.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mostafa said:


> Hey guys... I have the Magni / Modi Stack combo. I have the Ultrasone Pro-Logic 550. I was happy with the sound card "Creative Sound Blaster ZX" but I wanted to try out the Magni / Modi Stack Combo. And also I wanted to remove the sound card from inside the PC because it was covering custom back plate of the second 780 GTX.
> 
> I am not very happy with the sound during gaming. The sound is no where near the sound card. I don't want to put the sound card back so I am thinking of buying a better headphone "though it was working fine with the sound card"
> 
> ...


 
  
 I used a pair of Razer Carcharias for years to play WoW. They were great for gaming. I would not use them to listen to audio.
  
 I have not personally used the Ultrasone you mention. But I have a Magni/Modi stack, and I am listening to it right now on a set of Beyerdynamic DT770's. They sound great, and they sound far and away better than anything I ever heard out of my gaming headphones. But I'm also not expecting "surround sound" effects from this setup.
  
 I have not used a dedicated sound card for years. I don't see the point in it. Twenty years ago, there was a good reason to own a Sound Blaster Pro. Today, I just don't see the point. Even cheap motherboards come with audio that is good enough to play games. The average $300 dollar desktop uses a motherboard that cost $50 bucks retail (if that). I can see wanting to put a better video card in there, because even a $40 dollar NVidia 210 will make an improvement over a desktop running Intel graphics. But dropping $50 or more on a sound card? No. Heck no lol.
  
 Sure, a sound card with surround sounds good, but only in games. That "surround" feature is deceptive - it is altering the sound (mainly to make it seem like you're in the middle of the music, or whatever is being played). That's not "real" sound - it is a sound effect. It's just fine when you're trying to play a game, when it's important to be able to hear someone sneaking up behind you, before they attack or something. That same effect will sound bad when you just try to play regular audio through it.
  
 So personally, I think this is comparing apples and oranges. Game sound and music are two different beasts.


----------



## MrPanda

What's the best way to configure Windows 8.1 sound settings for use with Bifrost?  I'm using the SPDIF connector.  Most of my music is 16/44.1 ALAC, but I have a growing number of recordings at 24/96 and  24/192.   I've got Foobar and occasionally use Spotify Premium and iTunes.
  
   Thanks


----------



## mostafa

umustbkidn said:


> I used a pair of Razer Carcharias for years to play WoW. They were great for gaming. I would not use them to listen to audio.
> 
> I have not personally used the Ultrasone you mention. But I have a Magni/Modi stack, and I am listening to it right now on a set of Beyerdynamic DT770's. They sound great, and they sound far and away better than anything I ever heard out of my gaming headphones. But I'm also not expecting "surround sound" effects from this setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well said UmustBKidn ! I think I will stick to the Ultrasone for now. Maybe I'll grab a new one next pay check


----------



## Zojokkeli

I've never had dedicated gaming sound card so I can't say anything about how accurate the sound positioning in those are, but with HD 598's and Nuforce uDAC 2 you can get vague idea where the footsteps etc are coming from. That is enough for single player games IMO.


----------



## fenderf4i

I received and installed the Bifrost USB card yesterday. Took about 15 minutes to install, had zero issues with the LED's as I put the circuit board in the main enclosure first, then slid the dark gray insert in last and screwed it all together.

Very very happy with it so far.


----------



## Amictus

My Gungnir is in Memphis, Tennessee. How exotic. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's having a Fedex package holiday.


----------



## hodgjy

amictus said:


> My Gungnir is in Memphis, Tennessee. How exotic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, the southern USA is freaking out and is in lockdown mode because of a little snow and ice.  Hope you get it soon!


----------



## pdrm360

hodgjy said:


> Yep, the *southern USA* is freaking out and is in lockdown mode because of a little snow and ice.  Hope you get it soon!


 
  
 Here is a beautiful sunny day in southern California!


----------



## Tuco1965

Typical white out up here in the land of eh!  I'll counter the weather with my own Schiit storm.


----------



## pdrm360

^^ That gives more operationally to listening and enjoying music than here with a busy sunny day.


----------



## madwolfa

So I just bit the bullet and ordered an Asgard 2 for my HD600.. Hopefully it would be an upgrade from my decade old X-CAN V3.


----------



## pdrm360

madwolfa said:


> So I just bit the bullet and ordered an Asgard 2 for my HD600.. Hopefully it would be an upgrade from my decade old X-CAN V3.


 
  
 I guess you will like it but let us know your impression.


----------



## madwolfa

pdrm360 said:


> I guess you will like it but let us know your impression.


 
  
 To be honest I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to tell any difference, but I guess I just want little change after 10 years...


----------



## pdrm360

madwolfa said:


> To be honest I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to tell any difference, but I guess I just want little change after 10 years...


 
  
 Only changing the Headphones can make a bigger change, IMO.


----------



## Amictus

OMG. The Gungnir has arrived today Friday - delivery was estimated for next Monday. A Fedex triumph! Now trying to tell myself that I don't have time to open it today... I mean, I have to work, right? Right?


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> OMG. The Gungnir has arrived today Friday - delivery was estimated for next Monday. A Fedex triumph! Now trying to tell myself that I don't have time to open it today... I mean, I have to work, right? Right?


 
 Get your priorities right friend ! Now go open the bloody box already


----------



## Amictus

Surprise, surprise! I opened the box. Surprise, surprise! I didn't leave the unit on to warm up for a month or so. I listened cold. So far, Coax connection sounds fine, but not so far away from what I am used to hearing. USB - the Gungnir totally obliterates the Audiolab M-DAC. It will be interesting to see how things develop. What a wonderful, involving sound.


----------



## madwolfa

pdrm360 said:


> Only changing the Headphones can make a bigger change, IMO.


 
  
 Well, actually, the main reason for my experiment is that after 10 years of listening my system has started to sound a bit thin and harsh on the treble.
 I don't know what to blame here, I've replaced drivers in my HD600, valves in X-CAN V3, but it's still the same... not like before - silky smooth and enjoyable.
 Maybe it's my older ears or brain, I dunno... Will see if some Schiit helps. Maybe some other components in my X-CAN got old.
 The source was changed, though. I was using an old MF X-24K DAC for many years (and it was great).. but I don't think my new MF V-DAC II is worse that that.
 It has to be much better.


----------



## pdrm360

madwolfa said:


> Well, actually, the main reason for my experiment is that after 10 years of listening my system has started to sound a bit thin and harsh on the treble.
> I don't know what to blame here, I've replaced drivers in my HD600, valves in X-CAN V3, but it's still the same... not like before - silky smooth and enjoyable.
> Maybe it's my older ears or brain, I dunno... Will see if some Schiit helps. Maybe some other components in my X-CAN got old.
> The source was changed, though. I was using an old MF X-24K DAC for many years (and it was great).. but I don't think my new MF V-DAC II is worse that that.
> It has to be much better.


 
  
 I think you should try the HD650 when you get a chance, as you know they're smoother than the HD600.


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> Surprise, surprise! I opened the box. Surprise, surprise! I didn't leave the unit on to warm up for a month or so. I listened cold. So far, Coax connection sounds fine, but not so far away from what I am used to hearing. USB - the Gungnir totally obliterates the Audiolab M-DAC. It will be interesting to see how things develop. What a wonderful, involving sound.


 
 I'm assuming you're not going to work ? Its called Gungitis. Listening to the Gungnir/Mojo with the LCD-3 and my brand new DHC Complement Copper cable. After our discussion, I am going to go back to my USB cable and do some comparison again between that and the BNC Halide. I'll let you know.


----------



## boot275

I'm new to this thread but have been a modi/magni owner for ~six weeks. My power supply went out last week and I contacted Shiit and they had a replacement wall wart in the mail the same day! I received the replacement in six days which was awesome because I'm currently deployed in SW Asia. You can't beat that customer service. The secret to being successful is taking care of people and Shiit seem to have that concept down.


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> Well, actually, the main reason for my experiment is that after 10 years of listening my system has started to sound a bit thin and harsh on the treble.
> I don't know what to blame here, I've replaced drivers in my HD600, valves in X-CAN V3, but it's still the same... not like before - silky smooth and enjoyable.
> Maybe it's my older ears or brain, I dunno... Will see if some Schiit helps. Maybe some other components in my X-CAN got old.
> The source was changed, though. I was using an old MF X-24K DAC for many years (and it was great).. but I don't think my new MF V-DAC II is worse that that.
> It has to be much better.


 
 How are the ear pads on the HD600?  Those make a much bigger difference than a lot of people know.


----------



## jaywillin

i already knew that schiit has AWESOME customer service, and yet they've done it yet again, thanks guys


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> How are the ear pads on the HD600?  Those make a much bigger difference than a lot of people know.


 
  
 I'm waiting for a new replacement pair from Sennheiser now.


----------



## CJs06

Yup, went ahead and ordered a Bifrost to go with my Lyr... I couldn't help it, I did my best to talk myself out of it but I'm a big fan of Schiit


----------



## Snips

cjs06 said:


> Yup, went ahead and ordered a Bifrost to go with my Lyr... I couldn't help it, I did my best to talk myself out of it but I'm a big fan of Schiit


 
  
 I'm wondering if I should grab a new Lyr to try out. I used a pair of LCD-2.1 with the Lyr back when I owned it a few years back. I'm slightly tempted to grab one to see how the HD600 will sound with it.


----------



## jexby

snips said:


> I'm wondering if I should grab a new Lyr to try out. I used a pair of LCD-2.1 with the Lyr back when I owned it a few years back. I'm slightly tempted to grab one to see how the HD600 will sound with it.


 
  
 As a (former) owner of Bifrost Uber and Lyr (mainly for HE-500) but also having the HD600 (now at work) I don't think you'll be disappointed with Lyr and HD600, but IMHO it's quite a bit of wattage overkill.  and maybe price, depending on your budget, if you want to return to tube rolling and prices.
  
 my favorite setup with HD600 is now the Vali + Concero HD.  and certainly Vali+Bifrost Uber is superb also.
 the Vali can resolve with better DACs, so for the $ you save by going Vali instead of Lyr you could maybe nab a DAC upgrade in the process?
 just some options.


----------



## Snips

I am already pairing the HD600 with the Vali + Bifrost Uber right now. Don't get me wrong, I really love this setup, however as a former Lyr owner I was just getting curious about how the HD600 would sound with it. Or perhaps I'm just facing a case of upgraditis? 
  
 The tube rolling aspect was certainly fun though


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> I am already pairing the HD600 with the Vali + Bifrost Uber right now. Don't get me wrong, I really love this setup, however as a former Lyr owner I was just getting curious about how the HD600 would sound with it. Or perhaps I'm just facing a case of upgraditis?
> 
> The tube rolling aspect was certainly fun though


 
 Doesn't the Vali sound great with the HD600's and have enough power fry your ears?


----------



## Snips

Totally. I tend to listen to the Vali at the 8 o'clock position.


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> Totally. I tend to listen to the Vali at the 8 o'clock position.


 
 You must have delicate ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I listen to the pair at 10 o'clock or a little more. Too much and it can get awfully loud.


----------



## Tuco1965

The Uber and Lyr combo with the HD600s sounds great.  I have really been enjoying mine.


----------



## CJs06

jexby said:


> As a (former) owner of Bifrost Uber and Lyr (mainly for HE-500) but also having the HD600 (now at work) I don't think you'll be disappointed with Lyr and HD600, but IMHO it's quite a bit of wattage overkill.  and maybe price, depending on your budget, if you want to return to tube rolling and prices.
> 
> my favorite setup with HD600 is now the Vali + Concero HD.  and certainly Vali+Bifrost Uber is superb also.
> the Vali can resolve with better DACs, so for the $ you save by going Vali instead of Lyr you could maybe nab a DAC upgrade in the process?
> just some options.


 
 I went from a Vali to the Lyr and I have to say that extra wattage allows for my headphones to really show their potential, probably due to so much headroom lol. The Lyr is simply on a greater level than the Vali IMO


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> I went from a Vali to the Lyr and I have to say that extra wattage allows for my headphones to really show their potential, probably due to so much headroom lol. The Lyr is simply on a greater level than the Vali IMO


 
 Which of your headphones require more power than the Vali can deliver?


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Which of your headphones require more power than the Vali can deliver?


 
 None of them.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Which of your headphones require more power than the Vali can deliver?


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> None of them.


 
 Then what exactly is the Lyr doing for you that the Vali can't?


----------



## pdrm360

In overall I prefer the Bifrost/Vali combo over the Modi/Lyr for most of the headphones.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Then what exactly is the Lyr doing for you that the Vali can't?


 
 The Lyr sounds better to me... Are you confused why? Are we about to get into an objectivity versus subjectivity argument based off the percieved differences between two hybrid tube headphone amplifiers. My opinion is the Lyr sounds more dynamic and has much richer bass than the Vali.


----------



## Amictus

Well, I have been working, and the Gungnir has been warming up for 5 hours. The coax feed from the Oppo 103 now sounds much more authoritative, but also more relaxed. It is very revealing, showing up the difference between recordings: Haitink/Concertgebouw Beethoven 'Eroica', which sounded a little muddy before is now rescued from the slightly boomy acoustic of the Concertgebouw, which is heard as a separate entity behind and around the instuments. Is the placement of the instruments within the soundstage less crisp than with the Audiolab M-DAC? Possibly, but I am using Bugle Boys in the Lyr, and not the holographic Telefunken or Siemens tubes that I am more accustomed to. Now the Berlin Philharmonic Mahler 1 with the same conductor. There is a great musicality here - what do I mean? Well, someone was bound to ask... It's timbre, colour, musical line... all that. It's like I'm listening to analogue without the scratches. The Gungnir knows how to tell a story - so far, anyway.
  
 Now. Tomorrow I have to go to France. I might take the Gung with the Lovely Cube and a mess of cables... I don't want to risk the Lyr on a car journey...


----------



## Zojokkeli

In Schiit line of amps, what would you say is best for the HD 650's? At the moment I have Modi & Vali, but I want to know if for example Valhalla would be a clear upgrade over Vali.


----------



## hodgjy

zojokkeli said:


> In Schiit line of amps, what would you say is best for the HD 650's? At the moment I have Modi & Vali, but I want to know if for example Valhalla would be a clear upgrade over Vali.


 
  
 The Sennheiser veil is completely overblown in my opinion.  If you think the headphones have a veil, no amp will clear that.  It's just all about how we hear the sound the headphones reproduce.


----------



## Amictus

stand said:


> Then what exactly is the Lyr doing for you that the Vali can't?


 

 Danger, Will Robinson! This is the sort of talk that leads us to buy a lot of Schiit. We all need the Asgard, the Bifrost, the Vali, the Valhalla, the Lyr, the Gungnir and the Mjolnir. Oh yes, we also need the Magni and the Modi for the bathroom/bedroom/conservatory. It seems that the only thing that we don't need is the Loki. I can already feel someone typing "Then what exactly is the Bifrost doing for you that the Loki can't?"


----------



## Tuco1965

I wouldn't mind a small Schiit stack for the bedroom, but if I'd likely have to find a new bedroom if I did.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> The Lyr sounds better to me... Are you confused why? Are we about to get into an objectivity versus subjectivity argument based off the percieved differences between two hybrid tube headphone amplifiers. My opinion is the Lyr sounds more dynamic and has much richer bass than the Vali.


 
 No need to get snappy about this, I just asked a simple question.


----------



## StanD

amictus said:


> Danger, Will Robinson! This is the sort of talk that leads us to buy a lot of Schiit. We all need the Asgard, the Bifrost, the Vali, the Valhalla, the Lyr, the Gungnir and the Mjolnir. Oh yes, we also need the Magni and the Modi for the bathroom/bedroom/conservatory. It seems that the only thing that we don't need is the Loki. I can already feel someone typing "Then what exactly is the Bifrost doing for you that the Loki can't?"


 
 I'm starting to collect Schiit. My third element for the Schiit pile arrives on Monday, a fully optioned Bifrost.


----------



## Amictus

stand said:


> I'm starting to collect Schiit. My third element for the Schiit pile arrives on Monday, a fully optioned Bifrost.


 

 You're ahead of me. I'm only on Lyr + Gungnir... I bought the Gungnir rather than the Bifrost because Schiit said that I should (and I beleived them) and because it is more future-proof. And then there are the statement products over the rainbow...
  
 I REALLY want to buy my son the Magni/Modi combo, but he insists that he doesn't need them. Aaaargh!


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> No need to get snappy about this, I just asked a simple question.



Sorry, It's one of those snappy kind of days hahaha


----------



## StanD

amictus said:


> You're ahead of me. I'm only on Lyr + Gungnir... I bought the Gungnir rather than the Bifrost because Schiit said that I should (and I beleived them) and because it is more future-proof. And then there are the statement products over the rainbow...
> 
> I REALLY want to buy my son the Magni/Modi combo, but he insists that he doesn't need them. Aaaargh!


 
 My daughter would've looked at my Schiit stack and said, "What!? I'm not good enough for the same?" My son would've asked for something else in compensation. Lucky for me they're out of the house on their own.


----------



## pdrm360

zojokkeli said:


> In Schiit line of amps, what would you say is best for the HD 650's? At the moment I have Modi & Vali, but I want to know if for example Valhalla would be a clear upgrade over Vali.


 
  
 I prefer the Valhalla to the Lyr and Vali for the HD650s. The Valhalla and Mjolnir are the best Schiit for the HD650s, IMO.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Sorry, It's one of those snappy kind of days hahaha


 
 You must not be used to the snow, unless you didn't get hit by the storm.
 I know some guys across the bridge from Beaufort that can fix snarky. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After a brief stay at Parris Island my son addressed his mother as, "Yes Mam." It took 3 Weeks of XBox to fix that. I will say that after two tours in the desert of Iraq, his College grades went up to a 4.0.


----------



## StanD

zojokkeli said:


> In Schiit line of amps, what would you say is best for the HD 650's? At the moment I have Modi & Vali, but I want to know if for example Valhalla would be a clear upgrade over Vali.


 
 Ask questions like that and you'll pay for it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Is there something that you don't like about what you have?


----------



## madwolfa

So my Asgard 2 is on its way... StanD, I couldn't resist.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> You must not be used to the snow, unless you didn't get hit by the storm.
> I know some guys across the bridge from Beaufort that can fix snarky.   After a brief stay at Parris Island my son addressed his mother as, "Yes Mam." It took 3 Weeks of XBox to fix that. I will say that after two tours in the desert of Iraq, his College grades went up to a 4.0.


Indeed, the Corps will do that to a man. I have become more offensive/defensive being in the Army. The snow messed most all the plans here lol
On another note, its easy to misinterpret someones words online, so I meant no offense earlier.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> So my Asgard 2 is on its way... StanD, I couldn't resist.


 
 I luv my Asgard 2. Typical of Schiit, their _crap_ is worth much more than they ask and it's built well.
 The A 2 is a Class A amp so you can warm your hands on it or reheat cold food.


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> I luv my Asgard 2. Typical of Schiit, their _crap_ is worth much more than they ask and it's built well.
> The A 2 is a Class A amp so you can warm your hands on it or reheat cold food.


 
 Should sell like hot cakes Schiit with all the cold weather.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I luv my Asgard 2. Typical of Schiit, their _crap_ is worth much more than they ask and it's built well.
> The A 2 is a Class A amp so you can warm your hands on it or reheat cold food.


 
  
 I'm fine with Class A. My big 200wpc Rotel RB-1080 power amp is also pure Class A. It's hot, heavy as pig and kicks one's ass.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Indeed, the Corps will do that to a man. I have become more offensive/defensive being in the Army. The snow messed most all the plans here lol
> On another note, its easy to misinterpret someones words online, so I meant no offense earlier.


 
 I'm cool. He's 30 now, but the Corps cured him of his left over teenage behaviors, or should I say that combat did that. He's been back for a few years, I'm glad that I don't have to worry anymore.
 I just ordered a CD from Amazon, it was free from the $50 they gave me in digital product credit because they messed up twice on my Bifrost order. Weird thing with Amazon, when you buy a CD, the MP3 downloads come free. If you opt to only buy the MP3 version of the album, it costs more? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 At least it looks that way from the albums I looked at. I got a CD for the Dave Weckl Band that I couldn't find on my Google All Access streaming subscription.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I luv my Asgard 2. Typical of Schiit, their _crap_ is worth much more than they ask and it's built well.
> The A 2 is a Class A amp so you can warm your hands on it or reheat cold food.


 
  
  


tuco1965 said:


> Should sell like hot cakes Schiit with all the cold weather.


 
 After cleaning yesterday's snow, it rained last night and then froze over. Now it's turned to a ton of slush that my wife has tasked me to get rid of. Now I have to to go and shovel Schiit.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> I'm fine with Class A. My big 200wpc Rotel RB-1080 power amp is also pure Class A. It's hot, heavy as pig and kicks one's ass.


 
 I'll bet someone would try driving cans of the speaker taps and get a lesson in SPL.
 What do you hang off the Rotel? Your neighbors probably hate you.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I'll bet someone would try driving cans of the speaker taps and get a lesson in SPL.
> What do you hang off the Rotel? Your neighbors probably hate you.


 
  
 I have a pair of KEF Q700 floorstanders (see the signature). I do everything from classic rock and death metal, to jazz, acoustic and then some dnb, trance and dubstep. 
 That combo's producing a very clean and comfortable sound (better than B&W 684 with whatever amp) with jawdropping, but very articulate bass, despite modest size..
 Having a lot of power is reassuring.. I'm only using a LITTLE BIT of the preamp's volume pot for casual listening, presentation remains full even at very low volume levels.


----------



## Zojokkeli

stand said:


> Ask questions like that and you'll pay for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I love the little stack of Schiit I have, I'm just curious. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not planning to make any upgrades at least for a couple of years. Who knows, maybe there's Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2 waiting for me when I'm ready to upgrade.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

cjs06 said:


> Are we about to get into an objectivity versus subjectivity argument based off the percieved differences between two hybrid tube headphone amplifiers.


 
  
 I'm going to walk away before I get banned again.


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> I'm going to walk away before I get banned again.


 
 Obviously there is no career waiting for you at the State Dept. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So what was it? Cables? Amps? DACs? Cans?


----------



## Amictus

O.K. When I left the Gungnir to go and eat (you can tell that I'm not a serious audiophile) it was hooked up to the Lyr with 1961 Bugle Boys. The experience was very HD650, despite the use of the HD800s - cosy, warm, enclosed with an extraordinary (excessive?) rendition of hall ambience. Now I'm going for extreme soundstage: Gungnir + Lyr with E288CCs + HD800.  (CDs) Already it is a quite different sound: much more focused, accurate and yet open, yet slightly clinical. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Timbre is still excellent. I miss the absolute sense of precision that I got with the M-DAC and the HD800s, but it's early days yet, and the sound has gone from flash and a bit harsh when first heard it to warm and a bit fuzzy in 6- hours. Things could be totally different in another 10 hours. Can't be doing with the  E288CCs! In go the E88CCs. Much better. The focus is completely back, the warmth is in check. I now feel that I am listening to HD800s. I don't dare go and get the HD650s and the Q701s from upstairs. It's complicated enough already...


----------



## Amictus

stand said:


> Obviously there is no career waiting for you at the State Dept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Has to have been cables. Only the subject of cables drives head-fiers to acts of homicidal violence. Even tube versus solid state is nowhere close. Maybe the HD800 is closer, but nothing like cables as a divisive topic. Some people adore cables and some hate them with a bitter vengeance. It's Middle Ages versus Enlightenment, Catholic versus Protestant, Lenin versus Trotsky, music versus 'historically deformed' performance (sorry, my bias is showing)... it's deep, atavistic, savage. Yup. I reckon cables.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Obviously there is no career waiting for you at the State Dept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 All of the above. I commend Schiit for making quality products (I know from experience) but past a certain point the human ear can only hear so much. If you disagree, there is a great company you should try


----------



## Barry S

blackenedplague said:


> ... If you disagree, there is a great company you should try


 
  
 That's a satire site, right?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I really, REALLY hope so.


----------



## Eee Pee

You guys Patrick82 newbs or what?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

No I'm not, /g/ has me covered


----------



## madwolfa

As far as cables concerned, Blue Jeans Cable has me covered for life.. anything more fancy/expensive is a snake oil and pixie dust.
 Honestly I think BJC is a schiit of cable world.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

madwolfa said:


> As far as cables concerned, Blue Jeans Cable has me covered for life.. anything more fancy/expensive is a snake oil and pixie dust.
> Honestly I think BJC is a schiit of cable world.


 

  
 Yeah, ok. Have fun with that


----------



## madwolfa

blackenedplague said:


> Yeah, ok. Have fun with that


 
  
 Yep... that's my cable. What's the problem?


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Obviously there is no career waiting for you at the State Dept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


blackenedplague said:


> All of the above. I commend Schiit for making quality products (I know from experience) but past a certain point the human ear can only hear so much. If you disagree, there is a great company you should try


 
 Don't you know? The CIA is behind the business of premium priced headphone cables as part of their mind control experiments.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Don't you know? The CIA is behind the business of premium priced headphone cables as part of their mind control experiments.


 
  
 Projecting won't justify your purchases


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Don't you know? The CIA is behind the business of premium priced headphone cables as part of their mind control experiments.


 
  
  


blackenedplague said:


> Projecting won't justify your purchases


 
 Are you speaking about that goofy Projectionist that writes about audio equipment? Steve what's his name


----------



## Barry S

eee pee said:


> You guys Patrick82 newbs or what?


 

 Apparently so, but thanks for the reference--it's providing some entertaining reading. I guess he was the Shia LaBoeuf of head-fi for a time.


----------



## fenderf4i

madwolfa said:


> Yep... that's my cable. What's the problem?




Some people are just cheap and won't spend anything extra on something nice, and look down on others that do. The BJC are nice, and feel solid. You know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Chris ofc

Hey everyone, i own a set of HD800 headphones and i am thinking about getting a Schiit Lyr,
  
 However i've read some horror stories of Schiit amps blowing / damaging headphones in the past.
 (Headphones get damaged at the amp startup / shut-down because of power spikes?)
  
 Does this problem still exsist?, or did they fix this issue.
  
 Would like to hear this from a Lyr owner if possible.


----------



## Snips

chris ofc said:


> Hey everyone, i own a set of HD800 headphones and i am thinking about getting a Schiit Lyr,
> 
> However i've read some horror stories of Schiit amps blowing / damaging headphones in the past.
> (Headphones get damaged at the amp startup / shut-down because of power spikes?)
> ...


 
  
 It should have been fixed. I don't see any new reports of headphones blowing up. I used to run the Lyr with LCD-2s for around a year and I didn't encounter any problems.


----------



## CJs06

chris ofc said:


> Hey everyone, i own a set of HD800 headphones and i am thinking about getting a Schiit Lyr,
> 
> However i've read some horror stories of Schiit amps blowing / damaging headphones in the past.
> (Headphones get damaged at the amp startup / shut-down because of power spikes?)
> ...



This is straight from Schiit's Lyr FAQ on their website.

"Wait, you mean my headphones might blow up?
Dood, 6 watts is more than enough to let the magic smoke out of most headphones. Lyr packs a serious punch, and we expect that you’re grown-up enough to use it with respect. Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay, but we still recommend caution, especially if you’re tube-rolling. We will not be responsible for headphones damaged by Lyr."


----------



## StanD

amictus said:


> Has to have been cables. Only the subject of cables drives head-fiers to acts of homicidal violence. Even tube versus solid state is nowhere close. Maybe the HD800 is closer, but nothing like cables as a divisive topic. Some people adore cables and some hate them with a bitter vengeance. It's Middle Ages versus Enlightenment, Catholic versus Protestant, Lenin versus Trotsky, music versus 'historically deformed' performance (sorry, my bias is showing)... it's deep, atavistic, savage. Yup. I reckon cables.


 
 Yes I have already learned that Cablers are the biggest religious zealots at Head-Fi. I find the USB and Power Cord sects to be the most hard core.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Obviously there is no career waiting for you at the State Dept.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


blackenedplague said:


> All of the above. I commend Schiit for making quality products (I know from experience) but past a certain point the human ear can only hear so much. If you disagree, there is a great company you should try


 
 We're on the same page. When I recommend a Asgard 2 and one of the elitists chimes in, they get very upset when I bring up the facts. Increased expenditures enhances their ability to perceive what is either not there or not perceptible. Go figure.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> This is straight from Schiit's Lyr FAQ on their website.
> 
> "Wait, you mean my headphones might blow up?
> Dood, 6 watts is more than enough to let the magic smoke out of most headphones. Lyr packs a serious punch, and we expect that you’re grown-up enough to use it with respect. Lyr has a 20-second slow-start and fast-acting turnoff output muting relay, but we still recommend caution, especially if you’re tube-rolling. We will not be responsible for headphones damaged by Lyr."


 
 I guess we shouldn't recommend hanging his HD800 off the speaker taps of an Emotiva Mini. Actually 50W into 8 Ohms is 20V which  assuming the same voltage swing at 300 Ohms will crank out 1.3 W. Yep that's enough to fry his HD800's as well and remove two ears at the same time.


----------



## CJs06

Nah he's good. He will have at-least 2mm of rotational play on the volume knob before the headphones start smelling funny


----------



## madwolfa

fenderf4i said:


> Some people are just cheap and won't spend anything extra on something nice, and look down on others that do. The BJC are nice, and feel solid. You know what I'm talking about.


 
  
 I don't mind people buying fancy stuff, that's what I occasionally do either (like 150$ Cardas cable for my HD600 long time ago, because I _wanted_ it). I'm not eluding myself into some perceptible differences, though (except a joy of owning something _nice_), but I guess that's "subjective" and I have no intention of fueling another flame war. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I know what you mean, though. "I'm driving a Toyota and it's as good as your yuppie BMW and has better mileage too"....


----------



## madwolfa

OK, this one is seriously cool.
  
http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20Speaker%20Cable.htm


----------



## Snips

madwolfa said:


> OK, this one is seriously cool.
> 
> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20Speaker%20Cable.htm


 
  
 Wow. I may not mind spending a bit to buy aftermarket cables, but damn, those are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive.


----------



## Spiral Out

You could buy a new car for the price of those things. I also think cables make a difference but those are redonkulous!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> OK, this one is seriously cool.
> 
> http://www.highendcable.co.uk/Nordost%20ODIN%20Speaker%20Cable.htm


 
 Brings some old sayings to mind, "A fool and his money are soon parted," or "There's a sucker born every minute."


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Brings some old sayings to mind, "A fool and his money are soon parted," or "There's a sucker born every minute."


 
  
 Hey, don't look down on them..
  
 PS: we still have our right for a little ridicule... right?


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Hey, don't look down on them..
> 
> PS: we still have our right for a little ridicule... right?


 
 Yes, humor at their expense and what an expense. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Holy cow, you can sure find'em.


----------



## hodgjy

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but let's keep the thread on focus with Schiit, otherwise the mods might lock it based on the cable sniping going on.


----------



## Spiral Out

> This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but let's keep the thread on focus with Schiit, otherwise the mods might lock it based on the cable sniping going on.


 

 There's really nothing better than a warm piece of Schiit in the morning, I'm sitting here playing with my Schiit right now!


----------



## joespride

I will go ahead and join in,  I am rocking the Schiit outta my new Valhalla, and Uber Bifrost, with my Sennhieser HD-650,  Source is my laptop with LossLess WAV, I'm not sure music playback could get any better,  In my previous life i built $25,000.00 Horn and SET systems that were not as engaging as this $1300.00 setup, I have better detail retrieval than ever before.  Now i know what all my golden eared friends were talking about when we would get togeather for a listening session


----------



## StanD

joespride said:


> I will go ahead and join in,  I am rocking the Schiit outta my new Valhalla, and Uber Bifrost, with my Sennhieser HD-650,  Source is my laptop with LossLess WAV, I'm not sure music playback could get any better,  In my previous life i built $25,000.00 Horn and SET systems that were not as engaging as this $1300.00 setup, I have better detail retrieval than ever before.  Now i know what all my golden eared friends were talking about when we would get togeather for a listening session


 
 Sounds like you're full of Schitt, in a good way.


----------



## madwolfa

My Schiit on its way... <F5>, <F5>, <F5>
  
Estimated delivery :
Wed 2/19/2014
 OLATHE, KS
 US


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> My Schiit on its way... <F5>, <F5>, <F5>
> 
> Estimated delivery :
> Wed 2/19/2014
> ...


 
 My Schiit has hit the ground running on Friday and is stuck somewhere along the way until Monday.


----------



## MrPanda

Just got my Asgard 2 from FedEx...


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> Just got my Asgard 2 from FedEx...


 
 Go listen and report back. What's the chain and what's wrapped around your ears.


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> Go listen and report back. What's the chain and what's wrapped around your ears.


 
 Hi Stan..
   PC running Foobar -> Bifrost->-Asgard 2->Akg K712's right now, but later on I'm really tempted to try out my vintage AKG K340's.  I also have some Beyer DT-770-80's I want to try.
   Listening to some 24/96 recordings from Linn so far.. (John Butt's Bach Passions).   So far the detail is outstanding, soundstage is incredible, and lows are extended and top end sounds fantastic.  First thing I'm noticing is great dynamics and a much improved rendering of room ambience.  I put on John Eliot Gardiner's Bach BWV 82 from 2000 or so, and I've actually never heard the ambience before in that recording.  The vocalists sound exactly like they're singing in a room, and the strings sound separated without being harsh at all.


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> Hi Stan..
> PC running Foobar -> Bifrost->-Asgard 2->Akg K712's right now, but later on I'm really tempted to try out my vintage AKG K340's.  I also have some Beyer DT-770-80's I want to try.
> Listening to some 24/96 recordings from Linn so far.. (John Butt's Bach Passions).   So far the detail is outstanding, soundstage is incredible, and lows are extended and top end sounds fantastic.  First thing I'm noticing is great dynamics and a much improved rendering of room ambience.  I put on John Eliot Gardiner's Bach BWV 82 from 2000 or so, and I've actually never heard the ambience before in that recording.  The vocalists sound exactly like they're singing in a room, and the strings sound separated without being harsh at all.


 
 Yes, Johann was into some bad Schiit, top of the heap in Baroque. BWV 82 is a nice piece. Hopefully on Monday my new Bifrost will find its way in front of my Asgard 2. I am very pleased with the A 2, does a fantastic job of running my HE-500. are you enjoying all that _snowfall_? I'm sure that you got the same dose of wet heart attack snow the other day that I received.


----------



## madwolfa

I sure hope my V-DAC II will play well with Asgard 2... From what I know it should be in the same "weight class" with Bifrost..


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> I sure hope my V-DAC II will play well with Asgard 2...


 
 Why shouldn't it? If something good comes into it, something good will come out of it.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Why shouldn't it? If something good comes into it, something good will come out of it.


 
  
 You're right, source material is most important, then cans/speakers.. followed by the amp with DAC at the very end. 
 I heard all modern DACs are decent _enough_ for an average Joe not being able to tell any difference between them..


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> You're right, source material is most important, then cans/speakers.. followed by the amp with DAC at the very end.
> I heard all modern DACs are decent _enough_ for an average Joe not being able to tell any difference between them..


 
 I'm sure that one can find a lousy DAC or two, just like anything. Most of the modern ones are pretty good. The religious audiophiles get overexcited, so don't let them get to you. In the hardware scene, not including rotten equipment, good cans are where one gains the most.


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> Yes, Johann was into some bad Schiit, top of the heap in Baroque. BWV 82 is a nice piece. Hopefully on Monday my new Bifrost will find its way in front of my Asgard 2. I am very pleased with the A 2, does a fantastic job of running my HE-500. are you enjoying all that _snowfall_? I'm sure that you got the same dose of wet heart attack snow the other day that I received.


 
  


stand said:


> I'm sure that one can find a lousy DAC or two, just like anything. Most of the modern ones are pretty good. The religious audiophiles get overexcited, so don't let them get to you. In the hardware scene, not including rotten equipment, good cans are where one gains the most.


 
 I think the Asgard 2 really does a fine job with the K712's, so much so I haven't even tried my other phones yet.  The Bifrost/Asgard 2 is a very noticeable step up from the E17/E09 combo. The Asgard 2 is the first piece of electronic equipment I've ever had that has a warm volume control, lol.  It's reassuring that the Asgard 2 can drive the HE-500 - planar might be my next headphone move.  Do you get enough volume/headroom out it for the He-500's?    Right now I'm on the low gain setting of the Asgard 2 and it is completely silent.  I can hear reverb tails and hall reflections I've never heard before with this combo.  Also little details like musicians turning pages...  it's very clear and very resolving, but doesn't seem strident or harsh on anything I've tried yet.   The Bifrost beats out my Apogee Duet for detail and I had really thought that had a good DAC in it...  we are getting some wet snow, but it was warm enough today that it hasn't really accumulated on the ground much.


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> I think the Asgard 2 really does a fine job with the K712's, so much so I haven't even tried my other phones yet.  The Bifrost/Asgard 2 is a very noticeable step up from the E17/E09 combo. The Asgard 2 is the first piece of electronic equipment I've ever had that has a warm volume control, lol.  It's reassuring that the Asgard 2 can drive the HE-500 - planar might be my next headphone move.  Do you get enough volume/headroom out it for the He-500's?    Right now I'm on the low gain setting of the Asgard 2 and it is completely silent.  I can hear reverb tails and hall reflections I've never heard before with this combo.  Also little details like musicians turning pages...  it's very clear and very resolving, but doesn't seem strident or harsh on anything I've tried yet.   The Bifrost beats out my Apogee Duet for detail and I had really thought that had a good DAC in it...  we are getting some wet snow, but it was warm enough today that it hasn't really accumulated on the ground much.


 
 The Asgard 2 can drive the HE-500's to punishing volume levels and do it well. You already know how it sounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I like the design, the guys at Schitt didn't take the easy way out and went for a perfectly biased discrete design that doesn't rely on negative feedback but delivers due to their diligence in design.
 My wife was busting my chops to go out and shovel off the last round of snow but it's too dark and I'm not willing. I really should because by tomorrow morning it will freeze into ice.


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> The Asgard 2 can drive the HE-500's to punishing volume levels and do it well. You already know how it sounds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's really good news.  I've had some orthos before but they were really underpowered - same with the K340's which are going to be my next test  I was a little too broke to go out for a Lyr, but I'm not disappointed in the Asgard 2/K712 combo at all..  K712's with a FiiO sounded very "transistory'
 There's nothing to really shovel here yet, but there sure will be ice tomorrow.   But instead of going out, I can try out the K340's, the Beyer DT-770's, the Sennheiser HD595's and the Ultrasone Pro 650's with the Asgard, lol.  I wonder how the Asgard would do with Sennheiser HD650's...


----------



## Amictus

chris ofc said:


> Hey everyone, i own a set of HD800 headphones and i am thinking about getting a Schiit Lyr,
> 
> However i've read some horror stories of Schiit amps blowing / damaging headphones in the past.
> (Headphones get damaged at the amp startup / shut-down because of power spikes?)
> ...


 
 I am happily running the HD800s out of a Lyr and have had no such issue. FWIW appropriate tube selection is very important in this combination. I have also just received a Gungnir, but that is another story. Happy listening!


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> I wonder how the Asgard would do with Sennheiser HD650's...


 
  
 From what I heard, Asgard should be especially good with HD6x0, since they were used as a reference cans.
  
 Can't wait to try it with my HD600...


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> That's really good news.  I've had some orthos before but they were really underpowered - same with the K340's which are going to be my next test  I was a little too broke to go out for a Lyr, but I'm not disappointed in the Asgard 2/K712 combo at all..  K712's with a FiiO sounded very "transistory'
> There's nothing to really shovel here yet, but there sure will be ice tomorrow.   But instead of going out, I can try out the K340's, the Beyer DT-770's, the Sennheiser HD595's and the Ultrasone Pro 650's with the Asgard, lol.  I wonder how the Asgard would do with Sennheiser HD650's...


 
 Don't know about the 650's but they do a fantastic job with my HD600's. I expect that they'd do great with 650's.
 I'd like to hear how they do with your K340's so get to work.


----------



## Snips

Is the HD600 rather revealing for you when you pair it with the Lyr? I find that my own HD600 tends to reveal minor flaws in the recordings when I pair it my Vali. Granted, the Vali is the only desktop amp I have at the moment so I have nothing else to test it on,


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> Don't know about the 650's but they do a fantastic job with my HD600's. I expect that they'd do great with 650's.
> I'd like to hear how they do with your K340's so get to work.


 
 Just tried the K340s, and what can I say but the sound is legendary.  I wish I had had this amp back in 1980 when I got the K340's!  The midrange and treble is astoundingly clear.   They just lack a little "sub-bass" in comparison to the K712's.  I'd say the K712's are better integrated, but the transparency of the K340's at the top is superlative.   The K340's definitely have more of a "closed" sound and feel, and I like the soundstage of the K712's better.   At the low gain setting, not much comes out of the Asgard 2 with the K340, but on high gain, there's volume and headroom to spare.   I think the other advantage of the K712's is that they handle dynamic bass a lot better - the K340's came from the era of the LP, cassette and FM.   Right after the K340's, I put on the Ultrasones just for a quick check but while they outperformed the K340 on sub bass, the mid to top sounded dull, slow, and veiled.   The Beyer DT-770's fared a lot better, sounding better than I've ever heard them before -- actually, they really sound impressive, particularly on cello and low strings.  LOL, now I'll have to try out the Q701's and Sennheiser HD 595's.....


----------



## MrPanda

madwolfa said:


> From what I heard, Asgard should be especially good with HD6x0, since they were used as a reference cans.
> 
> Can't wait to try it with my HD600...


 
 I'm really interested in your impressions there...  so far I've found a huge improvement with the Bifrost/Asgard -- I wasn't expecting such a big jump up from the Apogee, or even the FiiO stuff.


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> Just tried the K340s, and what can I say but the sound is legendary.  I wish I had had this amp back in 1980 when I got the K340's!  The midrange and treble is astoundingly clear.   They just lack a little "sub-bass" in comparison to the K712's.  I'd say the K712's are better integrated, but the transparency of the K340's at the top is superlative.   The K340's definitely have more of a "closed" sound and feel, and I like the soundstage of the K712's better.   At the low gain setting, not much comes out of the Asgard 2 with the K340, but on high gain, there's volume and headroom to spare.   I think the other advantage of the K712's is that they handle dynamic bass a lot better - the K340's came from the era of the LP, cassette and FM.   Right after the K340's, I put on the Ultrasones just for a quick check but while they outperformed the K340 on sub bass, the mid to top sounded dull, slow, and veiled.   The Beyer DT-770's fared a lot better, sounding better than I've ever heard them before -- actually, they really sound impressive, particularly on cello and low strings.  LOL, now I'll have to try out the Q701's and Sennheiser HD 595's.....


 
 I did a quick Google on the K340's and what I read was that they were not easy to drive. I did a quick calculation based upon what curves I found on Innerfidelity and the Asgard 2 specs and figure you'll get about 114 dB SPL peak, maybe some more. Not up to head banging soon to be deaf Rap levels but not exactly soft either. I guess you found them loud enough. Glad to hear the Asgard 2 is working out for you..


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> From what I heard, Asgard should be especially good with HD6x0, since they were used as a reference cans.
> 
> Can't wait to try it with my HD600...


 
 It works superbly with my HD600's.


----------



## MrPanda

It's really fairly loud with the K340 - I listened for half an hour or so to classical.  I'll try some rock and jazz tomorrow,  I think the K712 is better at most things, but it's incredible to know that all this potential in the K340's was waiting around for a few decades to emerge. 
 I'll try Steve WIlson's "The Raven that Refused to Sing" tomorrow, I've got it at 24/96. 
  
 Even with a better amp and DAC, the Ultrasone Pro 650 is still pretty disappointing.  SLogic doesn't give me the sense of soundstage that the AKG's do.  And it really sounds muffled, and maybe even more colored with the Schiit stack


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> It's really fairly loud with the K340 - I listened for half an hour or so to classical.  I'll try some rock and jazz tomorrow,  I think the K712 is better at most things, but it's incredible to know that all this potential in the K340's was waiting around for a few decades to emerge.
> I'll try Steve WIlson's "The Raven that Refused to Sing" tomorrow, I've got it at 24/96.
> 
> Even with a better amp and DAC, the Ultrasone Pro 650 is still pretty disappointing.  SLogic doesn't give me the sense of soundstage that the AKG's do.  And it really sounds muffled, and maybe even more colored with the Schiit stack


 
 If you have a streaming subscription, when you try Jazz, find Dave Weckl and hold onto your headphones. Good news that the K340's were "fairly loud."


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

Totally worth the wait


----------



## FrZ-Fi

frz-fi said:


> So seems like a I had some interference causing my ringing noise in the Valhalla. Improved it completely going to another room, so have to find the cause next to my pc. I'm thinking it's the power outlets near my computer. Anyways here's a pic for you guys




OK so an update. 

I tested the hardware in exactly the same position as seen in the picture. Using a laptop it's silent. Unplugging the USB and plugging it into my desktop and boom static. So this basically singles out my desktop as the culprit and not the power outlet I read someone seemed to have the same issue and fixed it with a USB isolator. Does this issue ring any bells? Anyone have any idea how to fix it before I go and buy a USB isolator? Thanks guys


----------



## john57

I am not clear what type of noise you are getting, first you said ringing and then you get static from the desktop USB connection? USB isolator will help if you are getting a hum type of noise.


----------



## StanD

frz-fi said:


> OK so an update.
> 
> I tested the hardware in exactly the same position as seen in the picture. Using a laptop it's silent. Unplugging the USB and plugging it into my desktop and boom static. So this basically singles out my desktop as the culprit and not the power outlet I read someone seemed to have the same issue and fixed it with a USB isolator. Does this issue ring any bells? Anyone have any idea how to fix it before I go and buy a USB isolator? Thanks guys


 
 Maybe you have a ground loop. Try plugging your PC and audio gear into the same power strip or outlet. I remember having a problem when I had my DAC and PC plugged into different power outlets.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

john57 said:


> I am not clear what type of noise you are getting, first you said ringing and then you get static from the desktop USB connection? USB isolator will help if you are getting a hum type of noise.




Not sure how to describe it sorry. Sounds like a static ringing. 

Stan I have already tried the same powerstrip as my pc and no dice. I'm almost positive something is up with my USB or pc.

Oh btw here is the thread where the person seemed to have the same issue 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/noisy-schiit-modi-help-needed-other-modi-users-14582/


----------



## TsukiNick

Those with Modi/Magni stack:
 What headphones do you use?
 How loud do you have your Magni turned up? (11 o'clock, 2 o'clock...etc)


----------



## CrunchyChick

frz-fi said:


> Not sure how to describe it sorry. Sounds like a static ringing.
> 
> Stan I have already tried the same powerstrip as my pc and no dice. I'm almost positive something is up with my USB or pc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My Modi made a hissing sound when my Vali is turned up loud (with no music playing of course) ;  narrowed it down to this setting :
  

  
 Turning it to 24 bit / 96kHz playback makes the hiss inaudible, or at least quieter than Vali's inherent hiss.  Worth a try.
  
  
  
  
  
  


tsukinick said:


> Those with Modi/Magni stack:
> What headphones do you use?
> How loud do you have your Magni turned up? (11 o'clock, 2 o'clock...etc)


 
  
 Don't have Magni, but Vali is slightly less powerful and I usually listen at 7:30-8:00 position with HD600's


----------



## StanD

frz-fi said:


> Not sure how to describe it sorry. Sounds like a static ringing.
> 
> Stan I have already tried the same powerstrip as my pc and no dice. I'm almost positive something is up with my USB or pc.
> 
> ...


 
 My money is on the PC having a defect that is causing noise on its ground. a USB isolator can probably help with this, The best thing is to solve the problem at the core. It could be, the computer's  PSU, internal wiring, power cord or even your power strip, etc. It is possible that a ground loop is formed between the PC and your amp, with the Modi acting as one of the ground paths. If you have one, try a portable battery powered amp to check on this, Is your amp plugged into the same power strip / plug? This kind of stuff can drive you mad.


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> If you have a streaming subscription, when you try Jazz, find Dave Weckl and hold onto your headphones. Good news that the K340's were "fairly loud."


 

 I tried the Weckl - great stuff... big drum sound...  Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Beats" has some great LOW bass also...
 check out  Wojtek Pilichowski Band ...


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> I tried the Weckl - great stuff... big drum sound...  Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Beats" has some great LOW bass also...
> check out  Wojtek Pilichowski Band ...


 
 I've heard Pilichowski before, "The Definition of Bass."


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> I've heard Pilichowski before, "The Definition of Bass."


 
 I felt the need to give this setup a bass workout this morning 
 the K712's and the Beyer DT-770's sound fantastic


----------



## AK7579

tsukinick said:


> Those with Modi/Magni stack:
> What headphones do you use?
> How loud do you have your Magni turned up? (11 o'clock, 2 o'clock...etc)




I use the stack with Grado SR125i's. Since this is my office setup, I work in a cube farm, I usually don't go past o o'clock so my coworkers aren't bothered by my music.


----------



## TsukiNick

ak7579 said:


> I use the stack with Grado SR125i's. Since this is my office setup, I work in a cube farm, I usually don't go past o o'clock so my coworkers aren't bothered by my music.


 
 That O o'clock...


----------



## AK7579

tsukinick said:


> That O o'clock...



Oops, lol. 9 o'clock. That's what I get for trying to browse head-fi between rounds of Titanfall


----------



## TsukiNick

Still a closed beta? (let's derail the thread.)


----------



## AK7579

Xbox one beta has been open to all since this am


----------



## TsukiNick

Xbox One.....ewwwwww eww eww.
  
 PC is how you do it.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Consoles will be obsolete next gen or the gen after that. HTPC is the future and current best choice for doing everything consoles do and more


----------



## Neo-ST

crunchychick said:


> Don't have Magni, but Vali is slightly less powerful and I usually listen at 7:30-8:00 position with HD600's


 
  
 What?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I have Fidelio X1 (30ohm) and just ordered Magni&Modi, will it be too powerful for X1 then?


----------



## CJs06

neo-st said:


> What??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't think so. You just won't have to turn the volume knob as much.
  
 I keep reading comments regarding powerful amplifiers used with "easy-to-drive" headphones. Is there something about this combination that is bad? I get that it seems like overkill when amps like the Lyr can push 6W into 32ohms but does it matter? The easy-to-drive headphones I use sound better to me with the Lyr, plus I have an amplifier that can be used with planar and high-impedance headphones if I choose to grab some later. I'm curious and trying to keep an open mind even if I think I know everything sometimes


----------



## Snips

cjs06 said:


> I don't think so. You just won't have to turn the volume knob as much.
> 
> I keep reading comments regarding powerful amplifiers used with "easy-to-drive" headphones. Is there something about this combination that is bad? I get that it seems like overkill when amps like the Lyr can push 6W into 32ohms but does it matter? The easy-to-drive headphones I use sound better to me with the Lyr, plus I have an amplifier that can be used with planar and high-impedance headphones if I choose to grab some later. I'm curious and trying to keep an open mind even if I think I know everything sometimes


 
  
 I actually think that it's the sensitivity that matters more, rather than the impedance.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

stand said:


> My money is on the PC having a defect that is causing noise on its ground. a USB isolator can probably help with this, The best thing is to solve the problem at the core. It could be, the computer's  PSU, internal wiring, power cord or even your power strip, etc. It is possible that a ground loop is formed between the PC and your amp, with the Modi acting as one of the ground paths. If you have one, try a portable battery powered amp to check on this, Is your amp plugged into the same power strip / plug? This kind of stuff can drive you mad.




The pc is custom built and the parts art all pretty high end as far as the motherboard and psu. Unfortunately I only don't have a battery amp to test. I think I'll try a USB isolator see if I can resolve the issue that way. Thanks for all your input


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> I don't think so. You just won't have to turn the volume knob as much.
> 
> I keep reading comments regarding powerful amplifiers used with "easy-to-drive" headphones. Is there something about this combination that is bad? I get that it seems like overkill when amps like the Lyr can push 6W into 32ohms but does it matter? The easy-to-drive headphones I use sound better to me with the Lyr, plus I have an amplifier that can be used with planar and high-impedance headphones if I choose to grab some later. I'm curious and trying to keep an open mind even if I think I know everything sometimes


 
 If the amount of power the amp can provide exceeds the peak power requirements or headroom of a headphone based upon its sensitivity there is nothing to be gained only money to be spent. 300 Ohm cans usually don't require 660mW that the Lyr provides either, they need more voltage swing to reach modest power levels than low impedance cans. The Asgard 2 provides more than enough juice at 300 Ohms for almost anything and at 1W can drive many Planars just fine. You planning on an HE-6? If so the Lyr is a great choice.
 Now if you have a personal preference for the additional even order harmonic distortion (warm sound) that tube amps add, then that's another story. Again if you don't need 6W then a Lyr isn't an absolute either, but it is a good value proposition as typical with Schiit.
 If one doesn't need the extra power, they might consider putting the cost difference into cans.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> If the amount of power the amp can provide exceeds the peak power requirements or headroom of a headphone based upon its sensitivity there is nothing to be gained only money to be spent. 300 Ohm cans usually don't require 660mW that the Lyr provides either, they need more voltage swing to reach modest power levels than low impedance cans. The Asgard 2 provides more than enough juice at 300 Ohms for almost anything and at 1W can drive many Planars just fine. You planning on an HE-6? If so the Lyr is a great choice.
> Now if you have a personal preference for the additional even order harmonic distortion (warm sound) that tube amps add, then that's another story. Again if you don't need 6W then a Lyr isn't an absolute either, but it is a good value proposition as typical with Schiit.
> If one doesn't need the extra power, they might consider putting the cost difference into cans.


 
 This makes sense to me, thank you for explaining. I will say that I really enjoy the warm sound from the Lyr, and I will read up on even order harmonic distortion, as you got my curiosity up.
  
 I guess its worth spending more money on different cans rather than a slew of amplifiers and DACs. I really like Schiit as a company and the value of their products. I'm happy with the two stacks of Schiit I have so I will focus on trying different headphones. I'm looking forward to this chance when I go to a Head-Fi meet-up soon.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> This makes sense to me, thank you for explaining. I will say that I really enjoy the warm sound from the Lyr, and I will read up on even order harmonic distortion, as you got my curiosity up.
> 
> I guess its worth spending more money on different cans rather than a slew of amplifiers and DACs. I really like Schiit as a company and the value of their products. I'm happy with the two stacks of Schiit I have so I will focus on trying different headphones. I'm looking forward to this chance when I go to a Head-Fi meet-up soon.


 
 I think that once you have a decent electronics chain you will get more pleasure from cans and IEM's. You might want to listen to Planar Magnetics (Orthodynamic) cans, but hold onto your wallet.
 Of the cans/IEMs I see listed in your signature, which do you like the best?
_Philips Fidelio X1 | Ultrasone DJ1-Pro | Grado SR-60 | Sony MDR-10R | Sony XBA-1_


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> I think that once you have a decent electronics chain you will get more pleasure from cans and IEM's. You might want to listen to Planar Magnetics (Orthodynamic) cans, but hold onto your wallet.
> Of the cans/IEMs I see listed in your signature, which do you like the best?
> _[COLOR=6A6A6A]Philips Fidelio X1 | Ultrasone DJ1-Pro | Grado SR-60 | Sony MDR-10R | Sony XBA-1[/COLOR]_


So far definitely the Philips X1s. I really enjoy the openess of the cans and the bass it produces when listening to EDM and Jazz. I would describe them as rich and dynamic. Great value IMO.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> So far definitely the Philips X1s. I really enjoy the openess of the cans and the bass it produces when listening to EDM and Jazz. I would describe them as rich and dynamic. Great value IMO.


 
 Looking at the list, somehow I knew you were going to say that. The X1's are a good set. I have a pair of XBA-3's that I use when commuting, a little too much treble but not peaky, good bass and they sound great but need a touch of amping because the impedance is a bit lower than most IEMs, How do you like your XBA's?


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Looking at the list, somehow I knew you were going to say that. The X1's are a good set. I have a pair of XBA-3's that I use when commuting, a little too much treble but not peaky, good bass and they sound great but need a touch of amping because the impedance is a bit lower than most IEMs, How do you like your XBA's?


 

 I used to use my XBA's quite a bit, especially when I went overseas. They are good for the money but compared to the rest of my cans, they are decent. Bass doesn't have much extension but I think they have great clarity and the particular Sony sound signature that I've noticed with their headphones (less midrange). I've heard the XBA-3s were the preferred choice out of the series.


----------



## CrunchyChick

neo-st said:


> What??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I just have sensitive ears.  I had someone else try my setup and they put the volume at ~ 11:00 or higher.
  
 Magni is designed as an all-rounder to work with almost any headphone, I think you'll be fine.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> I used to use my XBA's quite a bit, especially when I went overseas. They are good for the money but compared to the rest of my cans, they are decent. Bass doesn't have much extension but I think they have great clarity and the particular Sony sound signature that I've noticed with their headphones (less midrange). I've heard the XBA-3s were the preferred choice out of the series.


 
 Yeah, I originally got the XBA-4's and returned them and swapped for the XBA-3's. I don't know if you can still find the 3's but the price really dropped on them not so long ago, must be the newer models coming in.
 Do you think the MDR-10R's really reach the rock bottom FR of bass? The X1's probably reach lower.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Yeah, I originally got the XBA-4's and returned them and swapped for the XBA-3's. I don't know if you can still find the 3's but the price really dropped on them not so long ago, must be the newer models coming in.
> Do you think the MDR-10R's really reach the rock bottom FR of bass? The X1's probably reach lower.


 

 The X1s definitely reach lower than the MDR-10Rs, this is especially noticeable when I listen to dubstep. I found that the MDR-10R's bass is more... bloated with EDM, not nearly as controlled as the X1s. However, I find myself listening to Jazz on the MDR-10Rs more and I especially enjoyed listening to them with the Vali over the Lyr. It's something about the mid-bass that I like when listening to Jazz. Not bad at all for $99.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> The X1s definitely reach lower than the MDR-10Rs, this is especially noticeable when I listen to dubstep. I found that the MDR-10R's bass is more... bloated with EDM, not nearly as controlled as the X1s. However, I find myself listening to Jazz on the MDR-10Rs more and I especially enjoyed listening to them with the Vali over the Lyr. It's something about the mid-bass that I like when listening to Jazz. Not bad at all for $99.


 
 I listen to a lot of Fusion and Contemporary Electric Jazz, not the atonal stuff where you start to wonder if the band members are aware that they are in the same room - lol. I think that I'd prefer the X1's for that. I tried the MDR-1Rs last year and returned them because although Sony stated that they went down to 4 Hz, their legal Dept. told them not to say how man dB down it would be at 4 Hz,
 I picked up a Vali because at $100, I figured what have I got to lose. It ended up to be a pleasant surprise. I like they way they work with my HD600's and use it in my den when I work at home.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I listen to a lot of Fusion and Contemporary Electric Jazz, not the atonal stuff where you start to wonder if the band members are aware that they are in the same room - lol. I think that I'd prefer the X1's for that. I tried the MDR-1Rs last year and returned them because although Sony stated that they went down to 4 Hz, their legal Dept. told them not to say how man dB down it would be at 4 Hz. I have an old pair of MDR-V900's that I got in 1998 and they really reach down low.
> I picked up a Vali because at $100, I figured what have I got to lose. It ended up to be a pleasant surprise. I like they way they work with my HD600's and use it in my den when I work at home.


----------



## Snips

crunchychick said:


> I think I just have sensitive ears.  I had someone else try my setup and they put the volume at ~ 11:00 or higher.
> 
> Magni is designed as an all-rounder to work with almost any headphone, I think you'll be fine.


 
  
 Heh same here. I have my HD600s plugged into the Vali and listen at around 8 o'clock. Any louder and it will start getting uncomfortable.
  
 I think StanD mentioned a few pages back that he has his Vali at the 10 - 11 o'clock position.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> I listen to a lot of Fusion and Contemporary Electric Jazz, not the atonal stuff where you start to wonder if the band members are aware that they are in the same room - lol. I think that I'd prefer the X1's for that. I tried the MDR-1Rs last year and returned them because although Sony stated that they went down to 4 Hz, their legal Dept. told them not to say how man dB down it would be at 4 Hz,
> I picked up a Vali because at $100, I figured what have I got to lose. It ended up to be a pleasant surprise. I like they way they work with my HD600's and use it in my den when I work at home.


 

 The Vali is a great deal indeed, It seems many were surprised lol. I use my Vali/Modi in my bedroom when I want to relax and chill out to some music before sleep. I've heard the Vali pairs well with Sennheisers and I'd really like to try them sometime.
  
 Up to this point all the headphones I've bought were well below MSRP except for my Grado SR-60s, but I was curious what the Grado sound was about and they are already a great value to begin with. I for sure want to try and compare audiophile headphones before I even consider buying, like the: Sennheiser HD650,700,800, Audezes LCDs, AKG 7xxs, Grado Pro and Reference Series, Hifimans. I'm going to bring my Schiit along to see which headphones I prefer, hopefully there will be some generous Head-Fiers at the Charlotte meet who will allow me to indulge  
  
 I guess it isn't really a surprise that Sony tried to downplay the MDR-1Rs lack of bass. I've tried a set in a Sony Store once, and while I enjoyed the clarity with my music, it was immediately apparent the cans didn't have any bass extension.


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> Heh same here. I have my HD600s plugged into the Vali and listen at around 8 o'clock. Any louder and it will start getting uncomfortable.
> 
> I think StanD mentioned a few pages back that he has his Vali at the 10 - 11 o'clock position.


 
 Yeah, I'm a bad boy. I'm trying to reform, let me take a look. It's at 10 o'clock, I guess that I can't bring it any lower, I'm addicted to sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Even at 10 o'clock there's plenty enough headroom. Volume controls are not linear they have an "audio taper" that is logarithmic so 12 o'clock is far lower than 50%. Uh oh, it's moving to 12, don't worry, the power is off, the HD600's are off my head and my ears are safe.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Uh oh, it's moving to 12, don't worry, the power is off, the HD600's are off my head and my ears are safe.


 
 Oh thank you, I was worried there for a second haha


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Oh thank you, I was worried there for a second haha


 
 OK, it's time to go offline and power down. You're in the same timezone as I am. Good thing I have tomorrow off. Got to love Presidents day, if it's a paid day off. That way I get to play with my Bifrost when it shows up later today, yay.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> OK, it's time to go offline and power down. You're in the same timezone as I am. Good thing I have tomorrow off. Got to love Presidents day, if it's a paid day off. That way I get to play with my Bifrost when it shows up later today, yay.


 

 I have duty tonight, so I'll be up... joy. Enjoy your Bifrost! Let me know what you think of it. I should get mine Thursday.


----------



## buppyjr

Just got my Vali+Magni stack (courtesy of head-fi SF meet raffle), and I have to say, "WOW!"  I used to think all this audiophile "garbage" was lunacy!  "I would never get into that!"  Then I saw on Amazon a pair of SE530s on sale for a great price.  It was a revelation.  To hear aspects of songs I'd listened to hundreds of times suddenly revealed... like a whole new world was born before my very eyes!  "Surely it can't get better than this?"  Then I got a nice soundcard for my PC (Titanium X-Fi) and it got nicer.  Then I upgraded to the Essence ST (Creative drivers were giving me issues) and the music got better.  And now it's 0230 AM, I have to go in to work for a bit tomorrow, then drive two hours to pick up my phone that I left at Espetu's, and I'm still awake because I just can't sleep because I need to hear what new worlds open up to me thanks to this Schiit!  This has got me already planning on what upgrades I want next!  And here I thought I was going to get a lot of Old Republic time this long weekend...


----------



## Snips

buppyjr said:


> Just got my Vali+Magni stack (courtesy of head-fi SF meet raffle), and I have to say, "WOW!"  I used to think all this audiophile "garbage" was lunacy!  "I would never get into that!"  Then I saw on Amazon a pair of SE530s on sale for a great price.  It was a revelation.  To hear aspects of songs I'd listened to hundreds of times suddenly revealed... like a whole new world was born before my very eyes!  "Surely it can't get better than this?"  Then I got a nice soundcard for my PC (Titanium X-Fi) and it got nicer.  Then I upgraded to the Essence ST (Creative drivers were giving me issues) and the music got better.  And now it's 0230 AM, I have to go in to work for a bit tomorrow, then drive two hours to pick up my phone that I left at Espetu's, and I'm still awake because I just can't sleep because I need to hear what new worlds open up to me thanks to this Schiit!  This has got me already planning on what upgrades I want next!  And here I thought I was going to get a lot of Old Republic time this long weekend...


 
  
 Good to see that you like the Schiit Stack. I assume that you meant Vali + Modi since the Magni is an amp. 
 Btw, I can't help but notice the "Old Republic time". Are you talking about Star Wars The Old Republic by any chance?


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> OK, it's time to go offline and power down. You're in the same timezone as I am. Good thing I have tomorrow off. Got to love Presidents day, if it's a paid day off. That way I get to play with my Bifrost when it shows up later today, yay.


 

 I think you're going to be really impressed with the Bifrost.  I've found that the DAC is more of an improvement over my previous one than I would have guessed, even with older recordings and transfers I did from vinyl....


----------



## StanD

OK, guys. Amazon has delivered the best Schitt text message of all time, it reads as below:
 "Your package with Bifrost Uber *Anal*... is on a carrier vehicle and should be delivered today."
 I guess they meant Analog not *Anal...* Butt it sure came out funny.


----------



## CJs06

wooooow hahaha


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> OK, guys. Amazon has delivered the best Schitt text message of all time, it reads as below:
> "Your package with Bifrost Uber *Anal*... is on a carrier vehicle and should be delivered today."
> I guess they meant Analog not *Anal...* Butt it sure came out funny.


 

 funny as schiit !!


----------



## Boss429

stand said:


> OK, guys. Amazon has delivered the best Schitt text message of all time, it reads as below:
> "Your package with Bifrost Uber *Anal*... is on a carrier vehicle and should be delivered today."
> I guess they meant Analog not *Anal...* Butt it sure came out funny.


 
  
 That is great StanD!!!!!
  
 Congrats on finally getting it too!!!!


----------



## StanD

I'm glad you guys are laughing, I'm pacing around like an expectant father waiting for my Schiit to be delivered by the Stork.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> I'm glad you guys are laughing, I'm pacing around like an expectant father waiting for my Schiit to be delivered by the Stork.


 

 same here, some damage(long story) was done to my lyr, schiit repaired if for me, our "weather" caused a delay with fedex, but its on the truck today !!
 the lcd-x has never met it, and my grado's have missed it !!


----------



## madwolfa

Now my Wednesday delivery is like eternity to me...


----------



## StanD

It appears that all good things come to those who wait, even if it's Schiit.
 Today's my limit. If I had to wait till Wed., I bust an artery in my head. Due to mess ups and bad weather this has been going on for two weeks too long. Today I have 3 trucks coming by from 3 different carriers. The first has arrived with my printer cartridges, with my luck my shoes will arrive next. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I can't listen to my shoes.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> It appears that all good things come to those who wait, even if it's Schiit.
> Today's my limit. If I had to wait till Wed., I bust an artery in my head. Due to mess ups and bad weather this has been going on for two weeks too long. Today I have 3 trucks coming by from 3 different carriers. The first has arrived with my printer cartridges, with my luck my shoes will arrive next.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So today you will tell me whether I should start selling my V-DAC.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> So today you will tell me whether I should start selling my V-DAC.


 
 I just took a look at the V-DAC, nice looking kit, good spec's too, although they don't give the IM specs.
 I never listened to the V-DAC so don't make me lie for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You bought the Bifrost, there's no need for justification, just enjoy it.


----------



## Snips

stand said:


> It appears that all good things come to those who wait, even if it's Schiit.
> Today's my limit. If I had to wait till Wed., I bust an artery in my head. Due to mess ups and bad weather this has been going on for two weeks too long. Today I have 3 trucks coming by from 3 different carriers. The first has arrived with my printer cartridges, with my luck my shoes will arrive next.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I experienced something similar when I was waiting for my own Schiit. My doorbell rang at least twice a day back then, but it was always something other than the courier.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I just took a look at the V-DAC, nice looking kit, good spec's too, although they don't give the IM specs.
> I never listened to the V-DAC so don't make me lie for you.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I just put my X-CAN V3 and original V-DAC (currently powering my big speaker system) up for sale...
 If all goes well, it should cover Bifrost (the only way to go around my wife). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 V-DAC II would then take V-DAC's place in my big system.


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> I experienced something similar when I was waiting for my own Schiit. My doorbell rang at least twice a day back then, but it was always something other than the courier.


 
 FedEx lists the delivery by 3 PM and it's almost 12:30 PM.


----------



## SP Wild

madwolfa said:


> Well, I just put my X-CAN V3 and original V-DAC (currently powering my big speaker system) up for sale...
> If all goes well, it should cover Bifrost (the only way to go around my wife).
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad you heard the improvements over the Xcan, which isn't a bad amp per se.  I just felt that whole 1 watt thing was a load of baloney - for the HD600s anyway.
  
 Output capacitors in the signal chain are a big no no, they place a very noticeable veil over the sound and smears the entire signal - less dynamics, clarity, soundstage and separation.  The Xcan relies on output capacitors and from what I understand the Schiit amp was designed without a need for them.  And of course, real power, not BS power. 
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Well, I just put my X-CAN V3 and original V-DAC (currently powering my big speaker system) up for sale...
> If all goes well, it should cover Bifrost (the only way to go around my wife).
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Jewelry can work. The problem is that they know how to read model numbers and find prices using Google as a tool against us. Then they want to get equal value, so you can double the price of anything you want to acquire.
 DAC's around the house. We all seem so suffer from a new disease called AAS (Audio Acquisition Syndrome). There is no known cure.


----------



## madwolfa

sp wild said:


> Glad you heard the improvements over the Xcan, which isn't a bad amp per se.  I just felt that whole 1 watt thing was a load of baloney - for the HD600s anyway.


 
  
 I haven't heard the improvement yet as I'm still waiting for my Asgard delivery. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It's time to part ways with my X-CAN anyway... it served me well, but I want to try something else after 10 years.


----------



## SP Wild

madwolfa said:


> I haven't heard the improvement yet as I'm still waiting for my Asgard delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Aha, OK - didn't realise that.  What a shame, you should keep them both at hand and actually trust your own ears as to which is better and sell the one you definitely liked less.  But I am not here to tell you how to manage you finances, and as you stated, you want to try something new after 10 years.


----------



## madwolfa

sp wild said:


> Aha, OK - didn't realise that.  What a shame, you should keep them both at hand and actually trust your own ears as to which is better and sell the one you definitely liked less.  But I am not here to tell you how to manage you finances.


 
  
 I will be able to do some comparisons on Wednesday (when it arrives)... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll still have my X-CAN by then. And Schiit has some good return policy... I doubt it will be worse than X-CAN though...


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> I just took a look at the V-DAC, nice looking kit, good spec's too, although they don't give the IM specs.
> I never listened to the V-DAC so don't make me lie for you.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i've had both, one is significantly better to my ears


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> i've had both, one is significantly better to my ears


 
 Audio is one endeavor where people change their Schiit more often than their underwear.
 So where's you Lyr? Did your Schit show up yet or is still in the hands of some truck driver,


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> Audio is one endeavor where people change their Schiit more often than their underwear.
> So where's you Lyr? Did your Schit show up yet or is still in the hands of some truck driver,


 

 still waiting on fed ex, they are usually here in the morning, but not today
 i swear, that "weather" really throws a monkey wrench in everything
 nothing i had coming in last week, made it last week !


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> still waiting on fed ex, they are usually here in the morning, but not today
> i swear, that "weather" really throws a monkey wrench in everything
> nothing i had coming in last week, made it last week !


 
 Thank God my new Snowblower made it in last week, my wife picked it up during the day, the one day I went into the office, just before the Schiit hit. 8 inches of wet heart attack snow. She got me a Sherman Tank. You don't get much snow in Alabama.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> Thank God my new Snowblower made it in last week, my wife picked it up during the day, the one day I went into the office, just before the Schiit hit. 8 inches of wet heart attack snow. She got me a Sherman Tank. You don't get much snow in Alabama.


 

 hardly any ! an inch and we panic ! lol


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> hardly any ! an inch and we panic ! lol


 
 Yeah, I saw the southern havoc on the TV news. Bunch of sissies. Then again the folks in Buffalo are the real deal when it comes to coping with snow.


----------



## CJs06




----------



## jaywillin

cjs06 said:


>


 

 and goes to kroger at the same time !!


----------



## jaywillin

i sit and look out the window, no fed ex man yet !!!


----------



## CJs06

jaywillin said:


> i sit and look out the window, no fed ex man yet !!!


----------



## Zojokkeli

As a finn I find it funny how a little amount of snow can have such drastic consequences somewhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That being said, usually our nationwide train network is in total chaos every winter, as if it's a big surprise to them there's cold and snowy during winters.


----------



## TsukiNick

What do you guys thinking about me painting my Magni black? (Would do the same with Modi when it arrives)
 I was thinking of being "that guy" with the custom Schiit haha.
  
 I emailed the Schiit guys awhile back and they said painting it wouldn't void the warranty or anything.


----------



## CJs06

tsukinick said:


> What do you guys thinking about me painting my Magni black? (Would do the same with Modi when it arrives)
> I was thinking of being "that guy" with the custom Schiit haha.
> 
> I emailed the Schiit guys awhile back and they said painting it wouldn't void the warranty or anything.


Do it! Then pix plx


----------



## markm1

cjs06 said:


> The X1s definitely reach lower than the MDR-10Rs, this is especially noticeable when I listen to dubstep. I found that the MDR-10R's bass is more... bloated with EDM, not nearly as controlled as the X1s. However, I find myself listening to Jazz on the MDR-10Rs more and I especially enjoyed listening to them with the Vali over the Lyr. It's something about the mid-bass that I like when listening to Jazz. Not bad at all for $99.


 

 OK-give me some new stuff to check out...I've been listening to old Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Miles Davis Bitches Brew era stuff.....


----------



## MrPanda

stand said:


> FedEx lists the delivery by 3 PM and it's almost 12:30 PM.


 
 did ya get it? did ya get it?


----------



## Xida

magni-modi combo is such a great bargin. Hell yee Schiit


----------



## jaywillin

its baaaaaaaaaaaack !!


----------



## CJs06

markm1 said:


> OK-give me some new stuff to check out...I've been listening to old Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Miles Davis Bitches Brew era stuff.....


 
 I recommend the Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out and John Coltrane - Blue Train and A Love Supreme. You can find the MQS albums on HDTracks.


----------



## CJs06

jaywillin said:


> its baaaaaaaaaaaack !!


 

 Awesome! Enjoy the Lyr with your wealth of badass cans


----------



## TsukiNick

tsukinick said:


> What do you guys thinking about me painting my Magni black? (Would do the same with Modi when it arrives)
> I was thinking of being "that guy" with the custom Schiit haha.
> 
> I emailed the Schiit guys awhile back and they said painting it wouldn't void the warranty or anything.


 
 Alright I think I'll go for it


----------



## StanD

markm1 said:


> OK-give me some new stuff to check out...I've been listening to old Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea and Miles Davis Bitches Brew era stuff.....


 
 Try Dave Weckl, he 'da bomb.


----------



## StanD

OK, my Schiit arrived today, late, and what a day it was. The Bifrost is where it's at. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I posted my adventures at the below link.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/551345/hifiman-he-500-he-as-in-high-end-impressions-and-feedback/12255#post_10282071


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> OK, my Schiit arrived today, late, and what a day it was. The Bifrost is where it's at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glad to hear, enjoy your Bifrost! Now I wait... ever so patiently


----------



## buppyjr

snips said:


> Good to see that you like the Schiit Stack. I assume that you meant Vali + Modi since the Magni is an amp.
> Btw, I can't help but notice the "Old Republic time". Are you talking about Star Wars The Old Republic by any chance?


 
 Oops, yeah, that's what I get for posting that late/early in the AM.  But yes, the Vali + Modi.  I said Magni since my friend that went with me kept saying he wanted to get the Magni.  But yes, I was referring to SW: TOR.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Glad to hear, enjoy your Bifrost! Now I wait... ever so patiently


 
 I  picked up a small Asus 11 inch Windoze 8 laptop with touch screen just to feed the Bifrost. I'm streaming Google All Access to the chain right now. I really can't stand the Windoze 8 UI, but it''ll serve as a media player. I have to install Foobar and Media Monkey on it tonight.
 Right Now I've got the Bifrost running into the Vali and then HD600, sounds awesome. When I move the Bifrost upstairs it'll be hooked up to my Asgard 2 and HE-500's, I can't wait.
 I can't believe that people actually listen to Beats through their phones/players and could possibly be happy. I guess "Ignorance is bliss," if you ask me, more like deaf.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> OK, my Schiit arrived today, late, and what a day it was. The Bifrost is where it's at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ok, today's rasmalai is for you, my friend


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I can't believe that people actually listen to Beats through their phones/players and could possibly be happy. I guess "Ignorance is bliss," if you ask me, more like deaf.


 
  
 Hey, I use "Beats" mode on my HTC One for drum'n'bass sessions when I workout. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Guilty as charged.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> I  picked up a small Asus 11 inch Windoze 8 laptop with touch screen just to feed the Bifrost. I'm streaming Google All Access to the chain right now. I really can't stand the Windoze 8 UI, but it''ll serve as a media player. I have to install Foobar and Media Monkey on it tonight.
> Right Now I've got the Bifrost running into the Vali and then HD600, sounds awesome. When I move the Bifrost upstairs it'll be hooked up to my Asgard 2 and HE-500's, I can't wait.
> I can't believe that people actually listen to Beats through their phones/players and could possibly be happy. I guess "Ignorance is bliss," if you ask me, more like deaf.


 

 Nice setup. I'm a fan of a small touch device as a media source. I'm using a Surface Pro with Foobar2K to feed my modi/vali stack myself.
  
 I guess ignorance is the reason why some people love music but are okay with mediocre headphones and sources.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Hey, I use "Beats" mode on my HTC One for drum'n'bass sessions when I workout.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You are forgiven, 10 Hail Mary's and 1 Schiit.


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Nice setup. I'm a fan of a small touch device as a media source. I'm using a Surface Pro with Foobar2K to feed my modi/vali stack myself.
> 
> I guess ignorance is the reason why some people love music but are okay with mediocre headphones and sources.


 
 I'm gonna pass on Media Monkey for now and just put Foobar2K on and also use the Google Music Player in Chrome. If I find it to be a bit slow I'll yank out the hard drive and put in an SSD. I was considering a Chromebook, but I wanted a touchscreen and I don't think they have a good selection of Audio Software. Soon there will be Android Laptops coming out. Intel is putting their weight behind Android. I guess they're losing confidence in Microsoft's future.


----------



## Kbman

I've watched a few interviews with some employees and the CEO himself with Tyll. This company just seems amazingly awesome. Very customer oriented and they definitely got it right with the way they are targeting lower income and indeed very broke college kids like myself. I haven't gotten the stack yet, but I definitely expect that I will here in the next month or so. Can't wait and also can't wait to see what other **** Schiit has in store 
  
 EDIT: What is the main difference from the Magni to the Vali? It says the Vali is more for over ear headphones and tube amp sound as compared to the Magni being for all around best bang for your buck. What would be best for using with my over ears and IEMs?


----------



## Rudiger

kbman said:


> I've watched a few interviews with some employees and the CEO himself with Tyll. This company just seems amazingly awesome. Very customer oriented and they definitely got it right with the way they are targeting lower income and indeed very broke college kids like myself. I haven't gotten the stack yet, but I definitely expect that I will here in the next month or so. Can't wait and also can't wait to see what other **** Schiit has in store
> 
> EDIT: What is the main difference from the Magni to the Vali? It says the Vali is more for over ear headphones and tube amp sound as compared to the Magni being for all around best bang for your buck. What would be best for using with my over ears and IEMs?


 
 The Magni. Because with the Vali, you will have some hiss with your IEMs.


----------



## Snips

rudiger said:


> The Magni. Because with the Vali, you will have some hiss with your IEMs.


 
  
 I've never tried the Magni but I have tried the TDK BA200 and the Beyer DTX series with the Vali. The hiss is audible even when music is playing. 
  
 IEMs are too sensitive for the Vali imho.


----------



## Traum

kbman said:


> EDIT: What is the main difference from the Magni to the Vali? It says the Vali is more for over ear headphones and tube amp sound as compared to the Magni being for all around best bang for your buck. What would be best for using with my over ears and IEMs?



In your case if you can swing it, I'd really go for the Asgard 2 instead of the Magni or Vali. IEMs will work with the Magni, but the Magni's gain is a bit on the high side for IEMs, and you'll end up with a rather small range of usable volume control on the Magni. The Vali, as Rudiger has mentioned, will likely give you some hiss on the IEMs as well.

But with the Asgard 2, the low gain setting would be ideal.


----------



## UmustBKidn

cjs06 said:


>


 
  
 What is this thing, snow?


----------



## UmustBKidn

tsukinick said:


> What do you guys thinking about me painting my Magni black? (Would do the same with Modi when it arrives)
> I was thinking of being "that guy" with the custom Schiit haha.
> 
> I emailed the Schiit guys awhile back and they said painting it wouldn't void the warranty or anything.


 
  
 Dooo Eeet. Nao.


----------



## StanD

How about some pink Schiit for the ladies?


----------



## MrPanda

I could really go for a "Hello Kitty" edition of the Lyr...
  
 How's the Bifrost going?


----------



## StanD

mrpanda said:


> I could really go for a "Hello Kitty" edition of the Lyr...
> 
> How's the Bifrost going?


 
 It has exceeded expectations. Yesterday I picked up a cheap Asus Windoze 8 11 Inch Laptop with a touch screen to use as a media player. I've got Foobar2K and Google Player (All Access Subscription) going on it. My ears are dancing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It has a 500 GB 5400 RPM hard drive, I might put in a 256 MB SSD.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> It has exceeded expectations. Yesterday I picked up a cheap Asus Windoze 8 11 Inch Laptop with a touch screen to use as a media player. I've got Foobar2K and Google Player (All Access Subscription) going on it. My ears are dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You feed it by USB?


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> It has exceeded expectations. Yesterday I picked up a cheap Asus Windoze 8 11 Inch Laptop with a touch screen to use as a media player. I've got Foobar2K and Google Player (All Access Subscription) going on it. My ears are dancing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


madwolfa said:


> You feed it by USB?


 
 Yes I do and it works purrrfectly. That's why I got the Windoze device. I was going to try my Samsung Galaxy S3 but it had a stroke yesterday and didn't open its eyes again. Verizon has another one coming to me today so I'll be trying that. If it doesn't work with OTG USB, I can take the GS3's USB to a FIIO E18 and the E18's Coax SPDIF to the Bifrost. This would bypass the E18 DAC and Amp, only using it as a USB to SPDIF converter. I've done this before to with another DAC and it worked. Sneaky, ain't I?


----------



## Tuco1965

S3 and OTG doesn't work with the Bifrost.  At least not my attempts with it.  I use Gizmo on my S3 to control MC19 on my 8.1 laptop.  It works quite well.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> S3 and OTG doesn't work with the Bifrost.  At least not my attempts with it.  I use Gizmo on my S3 to control MC19 on my 8.1 laptop.  It works quite well.


 
 Then you're stuck with the one app, no? I use apps for streaming as well. If you use the FiiO E18 as a passthrough to SPDIF to the Bifrost, the media control buttons in the E18 work with any compliant app.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are wanting to do?  What are you streaming?  S3 is the source of the stream?


----------



## TsukiNick

Think I should go for a Matte black or semi gloss for my Magni/Modi or maybe Metallic?
  
 And what do you guys think about connecting Magni and Modi sideways.  Headphone port at the bottom right and just double tape the Modi to the Magni.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are wanting to do?  What are you streaming?  S3 is the source of the stream?


 
 S3 as the vehicle streaming Spotify or Google All Access via USB to the FiiO E18 who's Coax SPDIF out goes to the Bifrost (or other DAC) Coax SPDIF input.


----------



## noobandroid

i might paint my magni green to match the Q701 green i have,


----------



## TsukiNick

Let's turn this into a paint your Schiit thread lol.
  
 I'm thinking of painting mine black then Stenciling Schiit's logo in red on the top of the Magni.


----------



## noobandroid

tsukinick said:


> Let's turn this into a paint your Schiit thread lol.
> 
> I'm thinking of painting mine black then Stenciling Schiit's logo in red on the top of the Magni.


 
 im thinking red with schiit logo in black on top, reminds me of Ferrari lol


----------



## HPiper

Looking for a bit of input. Forgetting for the moment the increased power, and with a phone with compatible impedance. Does the Lyr stock out of the box, sound better than a Valhalla. I have heard the Valhalla and thought it sounded very good, better than I was expecting, but for the small difference in price ($100) I would get the Lyr if it is, in fact, just a better sounding amp regardless of what phones you use.


----------



## fenderf4i

So I'm going to place an order. It's down to either a Vali or a Loki. I don't *need* either, my Asgard 2 is fantastic so another amp isn't that important, and while I have some DSD music, obviously DSD isn't that popular yet and might never be. 

What to do...and I'm NOT getting both. One or the other.


----------



## Snips

Huh, the Loki. That's not something people mention all that often here I think. Since you already have the Bifrost and A2, why not save some cash and don't buy the Vali and Loki?


----------



## UmustBKidn

hpiper said:


> Looking for a bit of input. Forgetting for the moment the increased power, and with a phone with compatible impedance. Does the Lyr stock out of the box, sound better than a Valhalla. I have heard the Valhalla and thought it sounded very good, better than I was expecting, but for the small difference in price ($100) I would get the Lyr if it is, in fact, just a better sounding amp regardless of what phones you use.


 
  
 I haven't heard either one. But you're talking all tube, versus a hybrid. So the real question is, do you want a tube amp, or a hybrid?
  
 The Valhalla will let you roll both preamp and output tubes. The Lyr, only preamp tubes.
  
 The only other real difference is output power. If you need beefy output power, the Lyr is the answer.


----------



## fenderf4i

snips said:


> Huh, the Loki. That's not something people mention all that often here I think. Since you already have the Bifrost and A2, why not save some cash and don't buy the Vali and Loki?


 
  
  
 Simply because I want more Schiit lol. The thing is that they are both very inexpensive, and I'm in the mood to purchase something.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Simply because I want more Schiit lol. The thing is that they are both very inexpensive, and I'm in the mood to purchase something.


 
 So you're being overpowered by impulses...Must resist, must resist, must resist. I actually have a Vali as well an Asgard 2. I picked up the Vali on impulse as it wasn't expensive to see what it's like and to tell you the truth, it's surprisingly good. IMO, you'd have more use of the Vali than the Loki.


----------



## fenderf4i

stand said:


> So you're being overpowered by impulses...Must resist, must resist, must resist. I actually have a Vali as well an Asgard 2. I picked up the Vali on impulse as it wasn't expensive to see what it's like and to tell you the truth, it's surprisingly good. IMO, you'd have more use of the Vali than the Loki.


 
  
  
 That's kind of what I'm thinking. I only have the Grado's, but a few guys here have said the Vali is absolutely fantastic with them. Hmmmmm.


----------



## Snips

stand said:


> So you're being overpowered by impulses...Must resist, must resist, must resist. I actually have a Vali as well an Asgard 2. I picked up the Vali on impulse as it wasn't expensive to see what it's like and to tell you the truth, it's surprisingly good. IMO, you'd have more use of the Vali than the Loki.


 
  
 The impulse is pretty damn hard to resist. I try to justify my bigger purchases by assuring myself that I'm making a long time investment


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> The impulse is pretty damn hard to resist. I try to justify my bigger purchases by assuring myself that I'm making a long time investment


 
 So you're actually expecting some sort of capital gains. My wife wouldn't fall for that.


----------



## kothganesh

fenderf4i said:


> So I'm going to place an order. It's down to either a Vali or a Loki. I don't *need* either, my Asgard 2 is fantastic so another amp isn't that important, and while I have some DSD music, obviously DSD isn't that popular yet and might never be.
> 
> What to do...and I'm NOT getting both. One or the other.




Oh stop the agonizing and get both. Because you will be at the same crossroads soon


----------



## madwolfa

- 

   2/19/2014  -  Wednesday
5:54 am At local FedEx facility
  LENEXA, KS


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> S3 as the vehicle streaming Spotify or Google All Access via USB to the FiiO E18 who's Coax SPDIF out goes to the Bifrost (or other DAC) Coax SPDIF input.


 
 Ok now I see what you want to do.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> Ok now I see what you want to do.


 
 Not want, have done it and it works. One more tool in the chest.


----------



## madwolfa

Do you need to modify/root your phone to enable digital audio over USB OTG ?


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Do you need to modify/root your phone to enable digital audio over USB OTG ?


 
 Not mine, root NOT required. It's a US Verizon Samsung Galaxy S3. It works with the latest 4.3 as well as the previous version, 4.1.2.


----------



## madwolfa

I got my Schiit!


----------



## Traum

madwolfa said:


> I got my Schiit!



Dammit, now I'm jealous! 

You gotta put that Schiit to good use and come back to tell us how you like it.


----------



## Saraguie

madwolfa said:


> I got my Schiit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, but is it 'together'


----------



## madwolfa

It is right now.... AND the first track is Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon - Breathe..... It's amazing so far!!


----------



## madwolfa

There's much more "fat" in the sound and the lower end is a lot beefier comparing to X-CAN.


----------



## aleibo39

fenderf4i said:


> Simply because I want more Schiit lol. The thing is that they are both very inexpensive, and I'm in the mood to purchase something.


 
 I love my Vali/Modi combo; and if you're looking for more Schiit, I'd go with the Vali.  I just don't think DSD is gonna be a player in the market, so the Loki seems sort of useless.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> There's much more "fat" in the sound and the lower end is a lot beefier comparing to X-CAN.


 
 It's about time that Schitt showed up. Now you got some baaad Schiit. I have a feeling it's going to be at least a couple of hours before your cans can be pried off your head.


----------



## Saraguie

madwolfa said:


> It is right now.... AND the first track is Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon - Breathe..... It's amazing so far!!


 
 Excellent!!!!!! Enjoy !


----------



## madwolfa

saraguie said:


> Excellent!!!!!! Enjoy !


 
  
 Very relaxed, smooth sounding amp. Less grain in the treble too. Enjoying it more as my ears (brain) are getting accustomed!


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice piece of Schiit there.  Enjoy!


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> It's about time that Schitt showed up. Now you got some baaad Schiit. I have a feeling it's going to be at least a couple of hours before your cans can be pried off your head.


 
  
 Indeed, my wife's already giggling at my idiot smile.


----------



## Byronb

Looking good...Enjoy!


----------



## Tuco1965

madwolfa said:


> Indeed, my wife's already giggling at my idiot smile.


 
 Schiit eating grin?


----------



## madwolfa

I have to say this thing's built like a tank - oozes quality. Don't really expect that from $249.00 piece.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> Schiit eating grin?


 
  
 Yeah, I'm so full of Schiit now.


----------



## madwolfa

Can't believe how much more bass this thing puts through my HD600s... listening some psy-trance now and my head's gonna blow.


----------



## madwolfa

And dang that pig is hot.


----------



## madwolfa

Question - do you keep your Schiit on all the time or turn off at night?


----------



## Tuco1965

I turn both my Lyr and Bifrost off when done for the evening.


----------



## roguegeek

madwolfa said:


> Question - do you keep your Schiit on all the time or turn off at night?


 
 I'm not afraid to keep my DAC on, but do turn it off when I remember. The same goes with any solid-state amps I have. For my tube-powered Lyr, I absolutely turn that off all the time simply because tubes can get expensive if they are only going to last you six months.


----------



## TsukiNick

Sweet Jesus, use the edit command don't just add more posts. Double post is bad enough but that makes me want to beat you like this horse.


----------



## madwolfa

tsukinick said:


> Sweet Jesus, use the edit command don't just add more posts. Double post is bad enough but that makes me want to beat you like this horse.


 
  
 Sorry, I got overly excited. And kinda used to forums which auto-append...


----------



## ThinJ

I always turned my amp off when I was using a tube amp, but at least for now my Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack stays on all the time. That will probably change in the summer. I start turning _everything_ off when I'm not going to be home no matter what because I don't have air conditioning :|


----------



## madwolfa

thinj said:


> I always turned my amp off when I was using a tube amp, but at least for now my Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack stays on all the time. That will probably change in the summer. I start turning _everything_ off when I'm not going to be home no matter what because I don't have air conditioning :|


 
  
 Funny is that I had my X-CAN V3 constantly ON for over a decade without any noticeable tubes degradation.. they were in the gain stage (low current), though, so much less stress. My father (EE) told me that generally tubes would rather stay on all the time (and very long time) than having their power cycled regularly. It depends on the particular circuit/usage, I guess..


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> Funny is that I had my X-CAN V3 constantly ON for over a decade without any noticeable tubes degradation.. they were in the gain stage (low current), though, so much less stress. My father (EE) told me that generally tubes would rather stay on all the time (and very long time) than having their power cycled regularly. It depends on the particular circuit/usage, I guess..


 
  
 Perhaps the reason you have reported your X-Can lacks bass and has grainy and shrilly treble is because the tubes have worn out.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> Perhaps the reason you have reported your X-Can lacks bass and has grainy and shrilly treble is because the tubes have worn out.


 
  
 I have replaced the tubes with Russian NOS couple months ago. It didn't change much, so it must be something else.
 Or maybe I have a developing tinnitus. I've noticed I'm also listening at a much lower volume levels than I used to...
 Maybe it's time for a hearing check.
  
 Schiit is producing much better, fuller, more satisfying sound, but it's still a bit too forward for my ears. It wasn't like that years ago, when I had no problems listening from whatever, including CD headphone jack. For some reason I've become much more sensitive to higher frequencies, can't really blame the hardware.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> I have replaced the tubes with Russian NOS couple months ago. It didn't change much, so it must be something else.
> Or maybe I have a developing tinnitus. I've noticed I'm also listening at a much lower volume levels than I used to...
> Maybe it's time for a hearing check.
> 
> Schiit is producing much better, fuller, more satisfying sound, but it's still a bit too forward for my ears. It wasn't like that years ago, when I had no problems listening from whatever, including CD headphone jack. For some reason I've become much more sensitive to higher frequencies, can't really blame the hardware.


 
 Usually we lose treble response as we get older. You have a built in EQ that we don't know about?


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Usually we lose treble response as we get older. You have a built in EQ that we don't know about?


 
 For many years I've been listening through old Musical Fidelity X-24K DAC... I have a feeling now that it had slightly rolled off highs and I've got so used to them..
 Unfortunately it's long gone and I can't compare.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Usually we lose treble response as we get older. You have a built in EQ that we don't know about?


 
  
  


madwolfa said:


> For many years I've been listening through old Musical Fidelity X-24K DAC... I have a feeling now that it had slightly rolled off highs and I've got so used to them..
> Unfortunately it's long gone and I can't compare.


 
 Maybe you need a little time for your brain to recalibrate.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Maybe you need a little time for your brain to recalibrate.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in my head (either brain or ears).


----------



## hodgjy

I have some incoming Schiit.  I got uprade-itis, so today I placed an order for the Bifrost Uber with USB.  I wanted a more dogmatically vigilant DAC, and I'm pretty sure this will do the trick.  My V-DAC II will join the bedroom or office rig.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> I have some incoming Schiit.  I got uprade-itis, so today I placed an order for the Bifrost Uber with USB.  I wanted a more dogmatically vigilant DAC, and I'm pretty sure this will do the trick.  My V-DAC II will join the bedroom or office rig.


 
  
 Uhm, now I'm tempted as well. I have the V-DAC II too. Let me know how it sounds compared to it.


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> Uhm, now I'm tempted as well. I have the V-DAC II too. Let me know how it sounds compared to it.


 
 Will do.  I do like the V-DAC, but the one thing I don't like (and this is an extremely small point) is it lacks a little bite in its attack.  Also, sometimes it lacks some depth and loses a little focus during complex passages.
  
 Everything I read says the Bifrost Uber will be better.  Plus, being upgradeable is huge for me.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> Will do.  I do like the V-DAC, but the one thing I don't like (and this is an extremely small point) is it lacks a little bite in its attack.  Also, sometimes it lacks some depth and loses a little focus during complex passages.
> 
> Everything I read says the Bifrost Uber will be better.  Plus, being upgradeable is huge for me.


 
  
 Hmm, do you have an upgraded PSU with V-DAC?


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> Hmm, do you have an upgraded PSU with V-DAC?


 
 I do.  I can hear slightly more bass and less etchy treble, but the end result is not breathtaking like some reviews may suggest.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> I do.  I can hear slightly more bass and less etchy treble, but the end result is not breathtaking like some reviews may suggest.


 
  
 OK, let's see how it goes with Bifrost for you. Then I might pull the trigger as well.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> I do.  I can hear slightly more bass and less etchy treble, but the end result is not breathtaking like some reviews may suggest.


 
 A PSU (Power Supply Unit) should influence noise, hum, possibly interference from the power line. How is that going to affect bass or treble? A really bad PSU might drop voltage under load in an amp, but not in a DAC.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> A PSU (Power Supply Unit) should influence noise, hum, possibly interference from the power line. How is that going to affect bass or treble? A really bad PSU might drop voltage under load in an amp, but not in a DAC.


 
I heard weak PSU can increase source impedance in low frequencies? Does it make sense?


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> I heard weak PSU can increase source impedance in low frequencies? Does it make sense?


 
 A weak PSU might drop voltage under load, if that's what you mean by weak. I can't see that being a problem in a decent DAC. A low supply voltage would probably cause more serious problems. LIke I said the possible issues would be noise, hum and interference. How is the power supply of a DAC going to affect the impedance of what you plug into it?
 We are easily influenced by what others say. Some people start stuff for going for the oddest reasons and it takes on a life of its own. This is human nature, more so with audio kit. All too often people are hurt by the chatter. I feel bad when I see this happen to others.


----------



## svt time

Would one notice a difference between the older Bifrost and the new "uber"? I am using AKG K702 + Asgard.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Not in your case probably


----------



## hodgjy

svt time said:


> Would one notice a difference between the older Bifrost and the new "uber"? I am using AKG K702 + Asgard.


 
  
 The 702s are extremely revealing, so I'd say there would be an audible difference.


----------



## StanD

svt time said:


> Would one notice a difference between the older Bifrost and the new "uber"? I am using AKG K702 + Asgard.


 
 Even though I bought my Bifrost with the Uber option, I'm not sure if a human being can hear the difference. The differences in distortion are in the thousandths of a percent. The distortion figures for the basic Bifrost are so far below perception that any improvement is for the benefit of spec sheets and lab equipment. I'm not sure of how many people could tell the difference in noise levels, if so they might have to squeeze so hard as to injure themselves.
 Bifrost:
 Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB, 2Hz-100KHz, -1dB
 Maximum Output: 2.0V RMS
 THD: <0.005%, 20Hz-20KHz, at max output
 IMD: <0.007%, CCIR
 S/N: >106dB, referenced to 2V RMS
 Bifrost Uber:
 Frequency Response: 20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB, 2Hz-100KHz, -1dB
 Maximum Output: 2.0V RMS
 THD: <0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at max output
 IMD: <0.002%, CCIR
 S/N: >110dB, referenced to 2V RMS


----------



## CJs06

Got my Bifrost today. Schiit stacks complete!


----------



## Tuco1965

What are you feeding to the Bifrost?


----------



## CJs06

tuco1965 said:


> What are you feeding to the Bifrost?


 

 SPDIF-out through optical from my PC. However, for some reason my PC isn't seeing that I connected anything to the optical out. I have Realtek HD Audio with R2.73 drivers. Usually in windows if you choose properties under your sound devices it will show the jack information and which one is connected to a device. It just isn't seeing the Bifrost. I might try installing my EMU 0404 PCI card and use that for optical SPDIF.


----------



## Tuco1965

That seems odd.  No usb on the Bifrost to try?


----------



## CJs06

tuco1965 said:


> That seems odd.  No usb on the Bifrost to try?


 

 Nah, I saved $100 since I had SPDIF-out to work with. Ironically its not working :/
  
 I'll figure it out eventually, I always do lol


----------



## Tuco1965

Hopefully you resolve it soon.


----------



## hodgjy

My Bifrost Uber is set to be delivered on Monday.  I wish I ordered earlier in the week so I'd have it this weekend.  Oh well, the waiting game starts!


----------



## Tuco1965

Did you order with usb?


----------



## hodgjy

tuco1965 said:


> Did you order with usb?


 
 I did.  But, I mainly got it for own OCD and also if I ever choose to use USB later.  I usually connect via coax.


----------



## Tuco1965

I didn't think it would be the input I would use much and bought it for future considerations, but now it is the only input I use.  Very happy with it.


----------



## Snips

hodgjy said:


> I did.  But, I mainly got it for own OCD and also if I ever choose to use USB later.  I usually connect via coax.


 
  
 While we are on the topic of the Bifrost's USB connection, I found that my music tends to get cut off randomly when my Bifrost is connected via USB. The sound will be cut off for a second or so before coming back. I emailed Schiit and Nick said that it's most likely something to do with Windows 8's USB power management. 
  
 Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. Nick recommended getting an external powered USB hub but I've yet to find time to get one.


----------



## Snips

Woops, double post.


----------



## hodgjy

tuco1965 said:


> I didn't think it would be the input I would use much and bought it for future considerations, but now it is the only input I use.  Very happy with it.


 
 I have Apple lossless on my iPod, which I extract via the Pure i20 dock and send it via coax.  Very happy with that.  I suspect, though, someday I'll re-rip in FLAC and use a computer based server.


----------



## kothganesh

snips said:


> While we are on the topic of the Bifrost's USB connection, I found that my music tends to get cut out randomly when my Bifrost is connected via USB. The sound will be cut out for a second or so before coming back. I emailed Schiit and Nick said that it's most likely something to do with Windows 8's USB power management.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. Nick recommended getting an external powered USB hub but I've yet to find time to get one.



I use the MacBook Air and have never had this issue.


----------



## Snips

kothganesh said:


> I use the MacBook Air and have never had this issue.


 
  
 Curious. I think I'll try connecting my iPod dock to the Bifrost, just to make sure that it's not a problem with the unit itself.


----------



## CJs06

tuco1965 said:


> Hopefully you resolve it soon.


 

 Got it working. For some reason my optical SPDIF-out won't work so I tried out my coax SPDIF-out and it passed 24/192 just fine. Oddly enough, I tried my EMU 0404 PCI card and it won't pass 24/192 through its SPDIF /shrug


----------



## Rem0o

snips said:


> While we are on the topic of the Bifrost's USB connection, I found that my music tends to get cut off randomly when my Bifrost is connected via USB. The sound will be cut off for a second or so before coming back. I emailed Schiit and Nick said that it's most likely something to do with Windows 8's USB power management.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. Nick recommended getting an external powered USB hub but I've yet to find time to get one.


 
 Windows --> Power Options -->Change plan settings ---> Advanced --> USB power management --> USB selective suspend setting --> Disabled. 

 Should fix it.


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> SPDIF-out through optical from my PC. However, for some reason my PC isn't seeing that I connected anything to the optical out. I have Realtek HD Audio with R2.73 drivers. Usually in windows if you choose properties under your sound devices it will show the jack information and which one is connected to a device. It just isn't seeing the Bifrost. I might try installing my EMU 0404 PCI card and use that for optical SPDIF.




There's no way for your Realtek card to know what is connected to it by S/PDIF. It's not USB. Just stream the audio to Realtek S/PDIF device and your Bifrost will do the job.


----------



## Tuco1965

snips said:


> While we are on the topic of the Bifrost's USB connection, I found that my music tends to get cut off randomly when my Bifrost is connected via USB. The sound will be cut off for a second or so before coming back. I emailed Schiit and Nick said that it's most likely something to do with Windows 8's USB power management.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. Nick recommended getting an external powered USB hub but I've yet to find time to get one.


 
 I run Windows 8.1 on my laptop and have experienced what you are talking about.  For me this only happens if I connect an ethernet cable instead of wifi.  Consequently I only connect ethernet when I need to transfer very large files and no music playing.  I haven't been able to solve this yet, but all is good with it disconnected.


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> Got it working. For some reason my optical SPDIF-out won't work so I tried out my coax SPDIF-out and it passed 24/192 just fine. Oddly enough, I tried my EMU 0404 PCI card and it won't pass 24/192 through its SPDIF /shrug


 
  
 Optical S/PDIF doesn't support anything higher than 24/96 (not enough bandwidth). To pass 24/192 you need either coaxial or USB 2.0. Why do you need 24/192 anyway?


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> There's no way for your Realtek card to know what is connected to it by S/PDIF. It's not USB. Just stream the audio to Realtek S/PDIF device and your Bifrost will do the job.


 

 lol its not that simple, in theory yes. However, the onboard audio controller can determine if its connected to "a device" once the data stream syncs up with the end device. If it doesn't sync up then its going to tell windows a big ol "nope" regardless what you try to send through the output; hence why I can press test in my audio device settings and there's no sound. One thing I've noticed, when the data stream does sync up, a relay in the Bifrost will click and voila! Sound...
  
 So to sum up my issue that I fixed. My onboard clock generator for my optical out is probably ****. My coax output works fine.


----------



## Snips

rem0o said:


> Windows --> Power Options -->Change plan settings ---> Advanced --> USB power management --> USB selective suspend setting --> Disabled.
> 
> Should fix it.


 
  
 Thank you, I'll try and see if it works.
  


tuco1965 said:


> I run Windows 8.1 on my laptop and have experienced what you are talking about.  For me this only happens if I connect an ethernet cable instead of wifi.  Consequently I only connect ethernet when I need to transfer very large files and no music playing.  I haven't been able to solve this yet, but all is good with it disconnected.


 
  
 Well it's good to see that I'm not alone here


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> So to sum up my issue that I fixed. My onboard clock generator for my optical out is probably ****. My coax output works fine.


 
  
 Yeah, looks like a sync issue. Have you tried another optical cable?
 Also have you tried another mode? Like 24/96 or 16/44? As I said 24/192 is a no-no for optical, my Realtek is producing some garbage.


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, looks like a sync issue. Have you tried another optical cable?
> Also have you tried another mode? Like 24/96 or 16/44? As I said 24/192 is a no-no for optical, my Realtek is producing some garbage.


 

 Yeah I tried a different optical cable. I tried every mode possible and it just wouldn't sync up, so I guess my optical out is just plain crap... oh well. The Bifrost works as advertised . I have some 24/192 FLAC and since the Bifrost supports it I figured why not try.


----------



## Snips

Hmmm, Rem0o's solution didn't work. The audio went bonkers for a second again. I'll try getting a powered USB hub the next time I leave the house.


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> Yeah I tried a different optical cable. I tried every mode possible and it just wouldn't sync up, so I guess my optical out is just plain crap... oh well. The Bifrost works as advertised . I have some 24/192 FLAC and since the Bifrost supports it I figured why not try.


 
  
 Glad you have it working... Enjoy.


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> Glad you have it working... Enjoy.


 

 Thanks, will do!


----------



## hodgjy

snips said:


> Hmmm, Rem0o's solution didn't work. The audio went bonkers for a second again. I'll try getting a powered USB hub the next time I leave the house.


 
 Wait.  You're running the DAC off a hub with other components?  That's probably a big factor.  Ideally, the DAC is connected directly to the computer in its own dedicated USB port.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> Wait.  You're running the DAC off a hub with other components?  That's probably a big factor.  Ideally, the DAC is connected directly to the computer in its own dedicated USB port.


 
 That would depend on the traffic. If there is little or none other than for the DAC, why would it make a difference. The question is what's going on at the hub.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> That would depend on the traffic. If there is little or none other than for the DAC, why would it make a difference. The question is what's going on at the hub.


 
  
 That could be some really ****ty (not schiitty) chinese hub. I wouldn't be surprised. Anyway, I wouldn't plug anything critical (like DAC) to any sort of external hub.


----------



## madwolfa

BTW, there's a nice tool called USBlyzer. Very handy to see what's going on USB, which devices share the same hub, bandwidth, etc...
  
 http://www.usblyzer.com/download.htm


----------



## Snips

hodgjy said:


> Wait.  You're running the DAC off a hub with other components?  That's probably a big factor.  Ideally, the DAC is connected directly to the computer in its own dedicated USB port.


 
  
 No, I'm currently running it straight off my laptop's USB port. Nick from Schiit recommended getting a powered USB hub, so I may get one just for the Bifrost.


----------



## madwolfa

snips said:


> No, I'm currently running it straight off my laptop's USB port. Nick from Schiit recommended getting a powered USB hub, so I may get one just for the Bifrost.


 
  
 That's weird... I really doubt Bifrost is using any bus power from USB, so what's the point..
  
 Try running the USBLyzer to see what other devices might conflict with Bifrost's USB device.
  
 http://www.usblyzer.com/download.htm


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> No, I'm currently running it straight off my laptop's USB port. Nick from Schiit recommended getting a powered USB hub, so I may get one just for the Bifrost.


 
  
  


madwolfa said:


> That's weird... I really doubt Bifrost is using any bus power from USB, so what's the point..
> 
> Try running the USBLyzer to see what other devices might conflict with Bifrost's USB device.
> 
> http://www.usblyzer.com/download.htm


 
 Maybe this time Nick from Schiit doesn't have his Schiit straight.


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> That's weird... I really doubt Bifrost is using any bus power from USB, so what's the point..
> 
> Try running the USBLyzer to see what other devices might conflict with Bifrost's USB device.
> 
> http://www.usblyzer.com/download.htm


 
 +1.  Great post.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Maybe this time Nick from Schiit doesn't have his Schiit straight.


 
  
 Who knows, maybe Windows would treat the active USB hub device differently.


----------



## Rem0o

I don't think so, probably an I/O handling problem.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Who knows, maybe Windows would treat the active USB hub device differently.


 
 I doubt it, It's a protocol subject to software bugs and hardware flubs. I don't think that Windoze would even know if there's a hub in place.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I doubt it, It's a protocol subject to software bugs and hardware flubs. I don't think that Windoze would even know if there's a hub in place.


 
  
 Powered USB hubs are usually active devices, they would appear in the Device Manager.
 USB audio has always been quirky though.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Powered USB hubs are usually active devices, they would appear in the Device Manager.
> USB audio has always been quirky though.


 
 Quirky drivers that operate in unprotected kernel space of the OS. They show up in Device Manager because they communicate to Windoze following a specific protocol. Either side drops the ball and the Schiit stops flowing. You would think that being it's the year 2014 that everyone could get their Schiit straight by now.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Quirky drivers that operate in unprotected kernel space of the OS. They show up in Device Manager because they communicate to Windoze following a specific protocol. Either side drops the ball and the Schiit stops flowing. You would think that being it's the year 2014 that everyone could get their Schiit straight by now.


 

 I think its safe to say Schiit is getting out of hand...


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> You would think that being it's the year 2014 that everyone could get their Schiit straight by now.


 
  
 Funny is that in 2014 Windows still doesn't natively support USB Audio 2.0...


----------



## Snips

Should I throw my laptop out of my window and get a desktop setup instead? That way I can use coaxial and optical out


----------



## CrunchyChick

snips said:


> Should I throw my laptop out of my window and get a desktop setup instead? That way I can use coaxial and optical out


 
  
 Thats the reaction i have every time one of my computers is doing something stupid...


----------



## CJs06

snips said:


> Should I throw my laptop out of my window and get a desktop setup instead? That way I can use coaxial and optical out


 

 lol not really necessary I don't think. Or you could build a mini-itx PC and drop a decent soundcard in it that way you don't have to use ****ty on-board audio controllers!


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> lol not really necessary I don't think. Or you could build a mini-itx PC and drop a decent soundcard in it that way you don't have to use ****ty on-board audio controllers!


 
  
 My ASUS Maximus V Gene has pretty decent Realtek ALC898. At least I'm able to get the proper S/PDIF digital output (not locked at 48 KHz or some other BS).


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> My ASUS Maximus V Gene has pretty decent Realtek ALC898. At least I'm able to get the proper S/PDIF digital output (not locked at 48 KHz or some other BS).


 

 I read that the Maximus V Gene had a decent onboard DAC... that board is the **** though. ASUS did that board right.


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> I read that the Maximus V Gene had a decent onboard DAC... that board is the **** though. ASUS did that board right.


 
  
 Yeah, I love it! One of the best mATX boards money could buy. The analog output is decent, I'm only using it to power my 'el-cheapo' Logitech speakers for YouTube, though.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Even though I bought my Bifrost with the Uber option, I'm not sure if a human being can hear the difference. The differences in distortion are in the thousandths of a percent. The distortion figures for the basic Bifrost are so far below perception that any improvement is for the benefit of spec sheets and lab equipment. I'm not sure of how many people could tell the difference in noise levels, if so they might have to squeeze so hard as to injure themselves.


 
  
 And this is the plight of audiophilism. Too much effort is put into the reproduction of music and not the production of the music. One could easily be satisfied with ProDJ100's from a magni+modi stack listening to adequately produced music (I won't even name a genre)


----------



## Defiant00

madwolfa said:


> Optical S/PDIF doesn't support anything higher than 24/96 (not enough bandwidth). To pass 24/192 you need either coaxial or USB 2.0. Why do you need 24/192 anyway?


 
  
 While I fully agree that 24/192 is unnecessary/excessive, as far as I'm aware optical S/PDIF does support it (I believe I tried it once when I had my Bifrost, and doing net searches I don't see any reason it wouldn't, although if you're on a Mac it appears that their software won't let you go above 24/96).


----------



## Defiant00

madwolfa said:


> That's weird... I really doubt Bifrost is using any bus power from USB, so what's the point..
> 
> Try running the USBLyzer to see what other devices might conflict with Bifrost's USB device.
> 
> http://www.usblyzer.com/download.htm


 
  
 Bifrost's USB board is powered through USB. Otherwise you'd see it connecting and disconnecting from Windows whenever you turned it on or off.


----------



## madwolfa

defiant00 said:


> While I fully agree that 24/192 is unnecessary/excessive, as far as I'm aware optical S/PDIF does support it (I believe I tried it once when I had my Bifrost, and doing net searches I don't see any reason it wouldn't, although if you're on a Mac it appears that their software won't let you go above 24/96).


 
  
 Indeed, it looks like some newer devices are really supporting it, so it's really not about the media. TOSLINK bandwidth was extended to 125 Mbit/s some time ago, so it should be plenty for anything (2 channel 24/192 is just 10 Mbit/s).


----------



## madwolfa

defiant00 said:


> Bifrost's USB board is powered through USB. Otherwise you'd see it connecting and disconnecting from Windows whenever you turned it on or off.


 
  
 This is interesting. Not the case with V-DAC, for example, the USB device disappears from the system as you turn it off.
 Can anyone run USBlyzer and see if the Bifrost USB device has a 'bus-powered' flag on it? If that is the case, then it could be a matter of inadequate USB power (however I doubt that Bifrost needs that much for USB operation).


----------



## gak27

Greetings all!

UPS just left a box of Schiit on my front step:



Otherwise known as my new (to me, and essentially new) Asgard 2 I picked up from a member here...


----------



## StanD

gak27 said:


> Greetings all!
> 
> UPS just left a box of Schiit on my front step:
> 
> ...


 
 We know what you'll be up to tonight. You'll be up to your neck in Schiit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Good listen'in.


----------



## nedaroth

I have the Schiit magni , does anyone know if it will drive the HiFiMan HE-500 ?


----------



## hodgjy

nedaroth said:


> I have the Schiit magni , does anyone know if it will drive the HiFiMan HE-500 ?


 
  
 1.2 W into 32 ohms.  That will drive the HE-500 just fine.


----------



## nedaroth

hodgjy said:


> 1.2 W into 32 ohms.  That will drive the HE-500 just fine.


 
 Thanks for the quick reply hodgij.


----------



## StanD

nedaroth said:


> I have the Schiit magni , does anyone know if it will drive the HiFiMan HE-500 ?


 
 I have an Asgard 2 and it drives my HE-500's perfectly. The Magni has 200mW more than the Asgard 2 so you should be more than fine.


----------



## Tuco1965

gak27 said:


> Greetings all!
> 
> UPS just left a box of Schiit on my front step:
> 
> ...


 
 Line up the tunes, sit back and enjoy!


----------



## nedaroth

stand said:


> I have an Asgard 2 and it drives my HE-500's perfectly. The Magni has 200mW more than the Asgard 2 so you should be more than fine.


 
 Thanks StanD , im realy excited about getting the HE-500's.


----------



## StanD

nedaroth said:


> Thanks StanD , im realy excited about getting the HE-500's.


 
 They sound like they're out of this world. It comes with two sets of pads, the leather is preinstalled.  The other pair are velour, I've switch to these as they're more comfortable for me. They're much heavier than my HD600's but the weight is evenly distributed onto the headband. I can wear them for hours on end. You're in for a treat.


----------



## svt time

Thanks  I am now wondering if the Lyr is a good match for my akg K702?


----------



## roguegeek

svt time said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What? It's a great match for them. Warms them up nicely without messing too much with that gorgeous soundstage and detail. I wouldn't hesitate recommending that pairing at all.


----------



## svt time

Excellent, thank you. I love the detail with them.. I currently have a little dot mkIII but it lacks the intricacy of the asgard pairing.


----------



## antikryst

Yes it will. I use a magni and modi with my he500. It has enough power to not make it clip. 





nedaroth said:


> I have the Schiit magni , does anyone know if it will drive the HiFiMan HE-500 ?




Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## svt time

Wow, I didn't realize these little amps were that powerful.


----------



## Snips

svt time said:


> Wow, I didn't realize these little amps were that powerful.


 
  
 They may not have the best sound out there, but power isn't something that they lack.


----------



## StanD

snips said:


> They may not have the best sound out there, but power isn't something that they lack.


 
 Have you ever listened to one. It might be a surprising experience.


----------



## Snips

stand said:


> Have you ever listened to one. It might be a surprising experience.


 
  
 The Magni? Yeah I've listened to it before. It's an amazing little amp for sure. Just a bit too bright for me though.


----------



## roguegeek

snips said:


> The Magni? Yeah I've listened to it before. It's an amazing little amp for sure. Just a bit too bright for me though.


 
 I would agree with you there. It is a fairly bright amp. Bright enough to put my HD 700 out of its comfort zone, at least. Still works wonders with a lot of other cans, for the price.


----------



## svt time

snips said:


> They may not have the best sound out there, but power isn't something that they lack.


 
 Sweet, i'm trying to convince my buddy to pick up 1. Any thoughts? He likes Coheed and Cambria, System of a down, children of bodem, lots of metal but also lighter artists like Metric.


----------



## Limitless

Saving for the Audeze LCD3's now...............


----------



## Snips

Dang. Nice setup you have there.


----------



## Neo-ST

After a month, my schiit finally arrived (Modi&Magni). Can't wait to see how they pair with Fidelio X1...


----------



## hodgjy

My Schiit is out for delivery!  The Uber Bifrost is near.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> My Schiit is out for delivery!  The Uber Bifrost is near.


 
  
 OK, I'm waiting for your impressions comparing to V-DAC II!


----------



## acidtripwow

> After a month, my schiit finally arrived (Modi&Magni). Can't wait to see how they pair with Fidelio X1...


 
 I'd like to hear what you think.  I have the X1 and am looking for an amp that would pair well with it.  To me the X1 is a little on the darker side.


----------



## goozy

My Schiit (Modi and Magni) pair up very nicely with my new ATW1000x's. Seem to give a more open feeling to the mellow closed back woods!


----------



## hodgjy

Holy Schiit!
  
 I may have left work early today to play with my new piece of Schiit that was delivered today.  We're just getting to know each other, but I'm starting to form a very positive opinion. 
  
 That's the first thing that came to mind when I connected the Bifrost Uber to my system and gave it a listen.  Here's a rundown of a few things.
  
 Amp: Trafomatic Head One
 Cans: Sennheiser HD600
 Old DAC: V-DAC ii with V-PSU ii
 Apple lossless -> iPod Classic -> Pure i20 dock -> coaxial connection
  
 For a long time, I felt my rig was basically end game.  But, over time, I began to notice some weaknesses in my overall sound, which I started to attribute to the V-DAC.  Some of the hailed strengths started to be a weakness to me.  For example, at times it was too smooth and polite.  It rounded some notes off.  Then, I began to realize a lot of the weaknesses, too.  It had some grain in the upper frequencies, even though the overall sound was smooth.  This just drew more attention to the grain because the mids and bass were silky smooth.  Despite the bass being smooth, it wasn't overly authoritative.  Also, the image got crowded at times and it struggled with micro details.  The V-DAC also lacked PRAT during some complex passages.
  
 So, I began to look for a DAC upgrade.  My research lead me to the Bifrost Uber.
  
 I just rolled it in today, but I'm already blown away.  I'm extremely happy with this purchase because my system has never sounded better.  This is amp and DAC endgame for me, and I no longer have the burning desire to upgrade my HD600s because everything sounds so good.
  
 Specifically, here's what I noticed immediately when playing my reference tracks.  Granted, differences between DACs are subtle, but I can hear them.  It's not my attempt to overstate things or use hyperbole to describe the sound.  But, I need to describe the differences somehow.  Below are the subtle differences I noticed immediately:
  
 1) The sound is alive!  There's no better way to say that.  The sound has energy and is alive and real.  Not dull.  No veil.  No boring politeness. 
 2) The background is absolutely black.  The blackest I've ever heard.
 3) The bass is authoritative.  It's textured.  It runs deep and hits hard.
 4) There's no grain in the upper frequencies.  It's smooth and life-like.
 5) The imaging is exquisite.  I have to retrain my brain to imagine where the instruments are on stage because it's filling is spaces that weren't previously there.  I'll be spending many late nights re-listening to my music collection.  The sound isn't the "three blob" image we hear about from time to time.  It's more 3D and complete.  Great width and depth.  Height is pretty good, too.
 6) The attack and decay are dogmatically vigilant. The DAC attacks the music and throws it at you with enthusiasm.
 7) The midrange is superb.  Guitars have texture I'm not used to hearing.
 8) Space.  There is space between instruments and voices that simply wasn't there with the V-DAC.
 9) Micro detail.  The detail retrieval is much better than the V-DAC using the same source files.  I'm hearing sounds I've never heard before.  Unfortunately, I'm hearing flaws in some recordings that the V-DAC's politeness masked.
 10) PRAT monster. 
  
 In my mind, there's no comparison between the V-DAC and the Bifrost Uber.  Sure. differences between DACs are subtle  But, the collection of these subtle differences put a huge gap between the V-DAC and Bifrost Uber.
  
 Sure, it's new.  But, I'm not much of a believer in solid state burn in.  Hey, if it gets better, sweet.  If not, I'd be ok with this level of performance.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> In my mind, there's no comparison between the V-DAC and the Bifrost Uber.  Sure. differences between DACs are subtle  But, the collection of these subtle differences put a huge gap between the V-DAC and Bifrost Uber.


 
  
 OK, you really turned up my upgraditis. Wife's gonna hate it.
  
 Also, what is the PRAT ?
  
 Google says:
  
prat
 prat/
_noun_ _informal_

 

 *1*.
  a person's buttocks.


 *2*.
BRIT.
 an incompetent, stupid, or foolish person; an idiot.


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> OK, you really turned up my upgraditis. Wife's gonna hate it.


 
  
 Looks the the DAC upgrade will also cost you a nice present to appease her.


----------



## Tuco1965

It is sweet, isn't it?  
 Every time I get a new audio piece I have to listen to everything all over again.  Ah hell I do that anyway.


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> OK, you really turned up my upgraditis. Wife's gonna hate it.
> 
> Also, what is the PRAT ?


 
  
 Pace, rhythm, and timing.
  
 The ability to keep tempo and make you tap your foot.  The music being alive.


----------



## hodgjy

tuco1965 said:


> It is sweet, isn't it?
> Every time I get a new audio piece I have to listen to everything all over again.  Ah hell I do that anyway.


 
  
 Right now I'm rediscovering RUSH.  The Uber is cutting through it like the V-DAC never could.


----------



## CJs06

acidtripwow said:


> I'd like to hear what you think.  I have the X1 and am looking for an amp that would pair well with it.  To me the X1 is a little on the darker side.


 I've enjoyed listening to the X1s off my Vali and Lyr. The Vali is fantastic with the X1s but the Lyr really makes the bass rock.


----------



## Neo-ST

acidtripwow said:


> I'd like to hear what you think.  I have the X1 and am looking for an amp that would pair well with it.  To me the X1 is a little on the darker side.


 
  
 Preliminary opinions - very good.
 I'm no audio expert, but I can say that this combo is very powerful, I usually set volume to around 1/3 and it's enough. They don't seem to colorize the sound, they're very transparent and do their job very nicely. In comparison with onboard sound, I'd say that maybe some details are more pronounced, especially mids and highs, but the best thing is reserve of power. It brings music alive even at lower levels. Fidelio does its job marvelously as well, it's not something I can explain via written words.
 For example, while listening to Two steps from Hell - album Invincible (epic music), you get that theatrical feeling.
 Now I need to equalize my headphones properly and let them burn in completely.


----------



## hodgjy

P.S.  While the master clocks between different DACs won't make and perceivable differences in the timing of the sounds, don't you think the timber, decay, and imaging of things like snare drums, kick drums, bass guitars, cymbals, and other percussion and rhythm section instruments will change how we perceive PRAT?
  
 Because it does.


----------



## Rem0o

I mostly agree with hodgjy. When I heard the Bifrost for the first time on a well known speaker system , the bass went from "cruise-control" to energitic, the imaging stepped up, and everything seemed more life-like, engaging. It wasn't a subtle difference.


----------



## wahsmoh

hodgjy said:


> Right now I'm rediscovering RUSH.  The Uber is cutting through it like the V-DAC never could.


 
 : ] finally someone who can connect on the same level with me. Listen to 2112, Freewill, Natural Science, and YYZ. Those songs made me go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I too have a Bifrost Uber so I know we are both in music land


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> P.S.  While the master clocks between different DACs won't make and perceivable differences in the timing of the sounds, don't you think the timber, decay, and imaging of things like snare drums, kick drums, bass guitars, cymbals, and other percussion and rhythm section instruments will change how we perceive PRAT?
> 
> Because it does.


 
 Tempo is how fast the music play as in beats per minute, look at a metronome. If a piece of music is Allegro, neither your amp nor DAC or whatever is going to change that.
 Rhythm, nope. Nothing in the audio hardware chain is going to change the accents or time signature of the music. Sorry 4/4 is not going to become 7/8.
 Decay has to do with the envelope of a musical note, none of this stuff is going to make a note last longer or shorten it.
 Timber, that another non-starter.
 PRaT is another one of those things that do not make sense. As much as I love my Bifrost, the Gods of Asgard are not going to alter the music. I'm sorry but this is another one of those things on the Internet that do not make sense. If you chose to go along with PRaT, that''s fine with me.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> Stan, I don't know what you hope to accomplish by engaging me here.  But, to answer your question, yes, some DACs don't have the same perceived energy and PRAT that others do.  It's most likely a function of the output stage and not the DAC chip itself.  The differences are subtle, but they are real and can be heard.
> 
> Second, this is a Schiit appreciation thread.  So, just because you may not interpret the same things that I do, especially in a Schiit thread where I'm voicing my enthusiasm for my new piece of Schiit, please stop trying to engage me.


 
 You brought up PRaT, not me. Sorry but there is no Schiit that can change these properties of music,


----------



## hodgjy

Well, I know what my ears tell me.  The music is more alive with the new DAC.
  
 If everything sounded the same, we'd all have the same gear and it would all cost the same.  $19.95, but order in the next 10 minutes and we'll double your offer for free, just pay separate shipping and handling.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

stand said:


> As much as I love my Bifrost, the Gods of Asgard are not going to alter the music.


 
  
 Ah, heck, although I wanted to keep this under wraps, you stumbled on to our real secret: Aesir Sound Supplementation (ASS). In all Schiit products, the ASS system uses a tiny fragment of a long-lost Norse crystal to resonate with similar crystals in Asgard, where the Aesir work full-time to augment your music. This deal was not easy to implement; I hope you can appreciate all the effort that went into this, and sorry about that soul-selling "for all ancestors, for all eternity" clause in the owner's manual.
  
 And, if you believe that, I have some $50,000 cables for you...


----------



## hodgjy

jason stoddard said:


> Ah, heck, although I wanted to keep this under wraps, you stumbled on to our real secret: Aesir Sound Supplementation (ASS). In all Schiit products, the ASS system uses a tiny fragment of a long-lost Norse crystal to resonate with similar crystals in Asgard, where the Aesir work full-time to augment your music. This deal was not easy to implement; I hope you can appreciate all the effort that went into this, and sorry about that soul-selling "for all ancestors, for all eternity" clause in the owner's manual.
> 
> And, if you believe that, I have some $50,000 cables for you...


 
  
 Once again, Jason wins the internet.


----------



## hodgjy

wahsmoh said:


> : ] finally someone who can connect on the same level with me. Listen to 2112, Freewill, Natural Science, and YYZ. Those songs made me go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Bifrost Uber tore through Moving Pictures like a hot knife through butter.  It was amazing.  The bass and drums were alive and in my blood.


----------



## Eee Pee

jason stoddard said:


> And, if you believe that, I have some $50,000 cables for you...


 
  
  
 Come with your 15 day trial period?  
  
  
 I just listened to Xanadu.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

eee pee said:


> Come with your 15 day trial period?


 
  
 Yes, though unfortunately there is a 15% restocking fee...


----------



## RickB

I've owned a Vali for about 3 months, and a Modi for a couple of months. Earlier in February I got myself a Magni as a backup amp.
  
 However, I'm finding I prefer the Magni over the Vali. The sound is clearer and more punchy than the Vali. The Vali is smoother, but it's like there is a film over the sound.  I also like the fact the lifespan of transistors is much greater than tubes (and no ringing!).
  
 I think somewhere down the line, there is an Asgard 2 in my future.
  
 It's great that Schiit is so focused on providing very good sound for reasonable prices.


----------



## hodgjy

I've been listening to the Bifrost Uber pretty much all day now.  I can put my finger on its greatest triumph.
  
 My Trafomatic Head One has an extremely wide soundstage.  When using the HD600 and V-DAC ii, it had a very "three blob" image.  If my head was a clock, sound was at 9:00, 12:00, and 3:00.  
  
 With the Schiit, there is sound at 9:00, 10:00, 11:00, 12:00, 1:00, 2:00, and 3:00 pm.  It is a holistic image and it's wonderful.
  
 Well done, Schiit.  Well done.


----------



## Tuco1965

The Bifrost has me hearing my speakers like I never have before.  They sound better than they ever have.  The soundstage is incredible.


----------



## hodgjy

tuco1965 said:


> The Bifrost has me hearing my speakers like I never have before.  They sound better than they ever have.  The soundstage is incredible.


 
  
 Yep, as I mentioned earlier, the image is very 3D and holographic.  I had no idea my system could sound this good.


----------



## bostown

Are there any other suggestions for cleaning the housing on the SCHIIT products.  another member posted having white streaks on the housing,  mine is the same.  one suggestion was lemon pledge sprayed on a microfiber cloth.   are there any other products and/or methods that folks here have used to clean up the smudges, prints, and white streaks left behind by damp cloth wiping?


----------



## hodgjy

bostown said:


> Are there any other suggestions for cleaning the housing on the SCHIIT products.  another member posted having white streaks on the housing,  mine is the same.  one suggestion was lemon pledge sprayed on a microfiber cloth.   are there any other products and/or methods that folks here have used to clean up the smudges, prints, and white streaks left behind by damp cloth wiping?


 
 I've used a soft cloth with just a hint of moisture.  Worked like a charm.


----------



## Tuco1965

hodgjy said:


> Yep, as I mentioned earlier, the image is very 3D and holographic.  I had no idea my system could sound this good.


 
 Exactly.  I'm now back to listening to my speakers much more often.  Evenings and late night are for the cans.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> Exactly.  I'm now back to listening to my speakers much more often.  Evenings and late night are for the cans.


 
  
 Don't tell me I have to buy second Bifrost for my speaker setup too...


----------



## Tuco1965

madwolfa said:


> Don't tell me I have to buy second Bifrost for my speaker setup too...


 
 You really need to feed your speaker setup if you haven't tried it yet.  My Mirage speakers never sounded so good! I feed both my Yamaha receiver and Lyr from the Bifrost.  I split it at the output.  I have some adaptors that are at the post office for pickup.  Currently using short y cable adaptors now, but will have some solid block style adaptors once I pickup my parcel.


----------



## jaywillin

madwolfa said:


> Don't tell me I have to buy second Bifrost for my speaker setup too...


 

 nope, splitters work just fine !!
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MFRW0/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## madwolfa

jaywillin said:


> nope, splitters work just fine !!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MFRW0/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


 
  
 Yeah, the problem is my computer desk (with all the headphone gear) is in my studio and the big speaker setup is in the living room.
 I'd have to get some long cables for all this.


----------



## jaywillin

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, the problem is my computer desk (with all the headphone gear) is in my studio and the big speaker setup is in the living room.
> I'd have to get some long cables for all this.


 

 ahhhhh, gotcha


----------



## madwolfa

jaywillin said:


> ahhhhh, gotcha


 
  
 Heck, maybe I'll just get the Gungnir - my amplifiers are balanced there.


----------



## jaywillin

madwolfa said:


> Heck, maybe I'll just get the Gungnir - my amplifiers are balanced there.


 

 you can get a deal on demo's at audioadvisor from time to time


----------



## bostown

hodgjy said:


> I've used a soft cloth with just a hint of moisture.  Worked like a charm.


 
 I've has no luck with that method unfortunately.  I mean, it's certainly not grimey or anything,  In fact it's clean, just looks like there's some streaking and rub marks in the finish that a lightly damped soft cloth doesn't seem to remedy.     Maybe I missed it on their site but I couldn't find a reference to what the housing is made out of  ( maybe I overlooked it).  Is it  Aluminum ?   which most polishes warn against using their products on.   or it is made of something else?


----------



## RickB

bostown said:


> I've has no luck with that method unfortunately.  I mean, it's certainly not grimey or anything,  In fact it's clean, just looks like there's some streaking and rub marks in the finish that a lightly damped soft cloth doesn't seem to remedy.     Maybe I missed it on their site but I couldn't find a reference to what the housing is made out of  ( maybe I overlooked it).  Is it  Aluminum ?   which most polishes warn against using their products on.   or it is made of something else?


 

 The housings of the Modi, Magni and Vali are powder coated steel. The other products are aluminum, I think.


----------



## Tuco1965

Read Chapter 4 in the Schiit story and you will find that it is aluminum other than the 3 models listed previously.


----------



## hodgjy

bostown said:


> I've has no luck with that method unfortunately.  I mean, it's certainly not grimey or anything,  In fact it's clean, just looks like there's some streaking and rub marks in the finish that a lightly damped soft cloth doesn't seem to remedy.     Maybe I missed it on their site but I couldn't find a reference to what the housing is made out of  ( maybe I overlooked it).  Is it  Aluminum ?   which most polishes warn against using their products on.   or it is made of something else?


 
  
 If the streaks don't come out with light rubbing and moisture, they must be left behind from the manufacturing process.  If that's the case, there's not much you can do about it.  I'd hesitate to put lipid-based chemicals on there to cover up the blemishes simply because the case gets so hot.  It could break down or discolor the chemicals, making it look even worse.


----------



## noobandroid

do you guys think I should change my dacport lx to the modi?


----------



## hodgjy

noobandroid said:


> do you guys think I should change my dacport lx to the modi?


 
  
 What don't you like about it?


----------



## Spiral Out

> do you guys think I should change my dacport lx to the modi?


 
  
  
 I wouldn't do that if I were you. It will at best be a side grade and at worst a down grade.


----------



## noobandroid

hodgjy said:


> What don't you like about it?



space consuming on my tiny desk. might even consider Loki. stacking saves my desk space


----------



## hodgjy

noobandroid said:


> space consuming on my tiny desk. might even consider Loki. stacking saves my desk space


 
 Loki is a DSD-only DAC.
  
 Your DAC is pretty highly rated, so you won't get much in return from a new DAC unless you want to jump up a price bracket or two.


----------



## noobandroid

hodgjy said:


> Loki is a DSD-only DAC.
> 
> Your DAC is pretty highly rated, so you won't get much in return from a new DAC unless you want to jump up a price bracket or two.



then if from magni jump, which schiit to go? vali might be the only thing I can afford. others in my currency hitting a thousand


----------



## Snips

noobandroid said:


> space consuming on my tiny desk. might even consider Loki. stacking saves my desk space


 
  
 I actually think that the Modi is bigger than the DACport LX since the Modi is shaped like a box.


----------



## hodgjy

noobandroid said:


> then if from magni jump, which schiit to go? vali might be the only thing I can afford. others in my currency hitting a thousand


 
  
 What headphones do you have?  What music do you listen to?  What is the source of your music---mp3s, lossless, etc?  What do you hope to accomplish through upgrades?
  
 Answering these can help me make recommendations for you.


----------



## noobandroid

hodgjy said:


> What headphones do you have?  What music do you listen to?  What is the source of your music---mp3s, lossless, etc?  What do you hope to accomplish through upgrades?
> 
> Answering these can help me make recommendations for you.



my main is q701. listen to 24/96 or 16/44.1 flac only. my favorite are Justin Timberlake and avenged Sevenfold


----------



## hodgjy

noobandroid said:


> my main is q701. listen to 24/96 or 16/44.1 flac only. my favorite are Justin Timberlake and avenged Sevenfold


 
 Keep your DAC as is.  Consider the Vali.  It's a great amp and is said to pair well with AKGs.


----------



## Spiral Out

> Keep your DAC as is. Consider the Vali. It's a great amp and is said to pair well with AKGs.


 
  
 I 100% agree.


----------



## madwolfa

Is there any significant difference between low and high gain modes of Asgard 2 with HD600 headphones? 
 I have now switched it to 'low gain' mode, I had to turn the volume pot up a bit (from 9 am to 11 am, probably), but other than that I don't hear much difference.  
 In fact, I may like it a bit more in this mode... I think the sound is more relaxed and natural, less forward.. can't really explain (not sure if real difference or sort of placebo effect). But I think my troubled ears like it better (less fatiguing). Also the volume pot is less sensitive and I can find the sweet spot better.
  
 So which one I should use?
 Should I be concerned about some negative feedback in 'low gain' mode (the manual says 12dB)? I have no idea what that means.
  
 UPDATE: After some listening I can definitely confirm my impressions... The 'low gain' setting is much gentler to my ears. Sound is comfortable, mid-high frequencies are tamed down and the harshness is gone. It sounds more balanced and natural. Maybe less 'punch', but I definitely prefer it this way.
  
 UPDATE2: Schiit just replied I want to use the one that sounds best to me. Fair enough.


----------



## UmustBKidn

bostown said:


> Are there any other suggestions for cleaning the housing on the SCHIIT products.  another member posted having white streaks on the housing,  mine is the same.  one suggestion was lemon pledge sprayed on a microfiber cloth.   are there any other products and/or methods that folks here have used to clean up the smudges, prints, and white streaks left behind by damp cloth wiping?


 
  
Goof Off removes anything from anything.


----------



## RickB

I had a post in this thread that mysteriously disappeared with no notice.
  
 In the original post I stated that I had a preference for the Magni over the Vali. I came back today to state that I had changed my mind. I'm listening to Spotify again, which sounds harsher than my natively played tracks. The Vali sounds better with it because it's smoother. So I'm back to using the Vali.
  
 Now I expect this post to mysteriously disappear without notice, too.


----------



## Snips

rickb said:


> I had a post in this thread that mysteriously disappeared with no notice.
> 
> In the original post I stated that I had a preference for the Magni over the Vali. I came back today to state that I had changed my mind. I'm listening to Spotify again, which sounds harsher than my natively played tracks. The Vali sounds better with it because it's smoother. So I'm back to using the Vali.
> 
> Now I expect this post to mysteriously disappear without notice, too.


 
  
 I believe there was a sweep a day or two back because the thread was getting derailed and the tensions were kinda rising. Your post probably got caught up. I know my own post did.


----------



## RickB

snips said:


> I believe there was a sweep a day or two back because the thread was getting derailed and the tensions were kinda rising. Your post probably got caught up. I know my own post did.


 

 Ah, thanks. It was a mystery to me what was inappropriate about expressing a preference for one Schiit product over another in a Schiit Owner's thread.


----------



## paradoxper

It was my fault. Apologies.


----------



## Synergist969

To Whomever May Wish to Assist:

HELP Please?

 I did not know if there was a better forum heading in which to post this question, if so, my sincere apologies, and please direct me accordingly...(and sorry for derailing this particular thread...) 

 I've been a happy Schiit Bifrost owner for a couple of years, (along with a Lyr and Asgard 2), and would now like to upgrade it with the "Uber Analog" board as well as the "Gen 2 Input" board. Being very much a novice at this electronic component upgrade sort of thing, I would have sent my unit back to Schiit Audio to allow them to do it, however, I don't have a back-up D/A converter to use, so that I would like to save the time AND the money by installing them myself, should the project not be beyond my abilities.

 That said, are there any really good, straight forward, step by step instructions for how to de-install the old boards, and install the new ones...ones suitable for a novice like myself? I know, in the past, some instructions were posted, and would like to know if: 1, they are still available, 2, there are any particularly clear and simple ones, and 3, where I would look for them??? 

 Thank you for your assistance.

Sincerely,
T.A. Kogstrom

P.S. Again, if this is not the best location for posting this inquiry, please let me know where to post it...
P.P.S. I dare not ask if anyone has any updated information regarding the release/production of the "Ragnarok"...lol...


----------



## jaywillin

synergist969 said:


> To Whomever May Wish to Assist:
> 
> HELP Please?
> 
> ...


 

 i used these instructions, i'm pretty much a novice myself, but if one is careful, methodical, its pretty easy , the lights to go back in the holes gives some folks trouble, i used a pair of extra long needle nose pliers to help insert the LEDs  page 2, post 25 give some pictures
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade


----------



## Traum

To Synergist969,

How are you currently connecting your Bifrost to your source? If you are already connecting your Bifrost to the PC via the gen-1 USB interface, I really don't see any benefits in upgrading to the USB card to the gen 2 version unless you specifically have some 24/176 media files that the gen-1 USB interface cannot handle. From reading through the description on Schiit's website, it is not obvious to me whether there are any real, actual sonic improvements from the gen 2 USB interface.

But more importantly, if your sources support SPDIF coaxial and/or optical outputs, I would strongly recommend you to use that instead of the USB connection. The audio quality is noticeably higher when your Bifrost connected via SPDIF.


----------



## madwolfa

traum said:


> But more importantly, if your sources support SPDIF coaxial and/or optical outputs, I would strongly recommend you to use that instead of the USB connection. The audio quality is noticeably higher when your Bifrost connected via SPDIF.


 
  
 Admittedly, USB is quirky at times, also prone to ground loop/hum issues (unlike optical S/PDIF). Other than that, there shouldn't be any noticeable audio quality differences between the (correctly implemented) DAC inputs.


----------



## Traum

madwolfa said:


> Admittedly, USB is quirky at times, also prone to ground loop/hum issues (unlike optical S/PDIF). Other than that, there shouldn't be any noticeable audio quality differences between the (correctly implemented) DAC inputs.



According to both my ears (I only have the gen 1 USB on my Bifrost regular) and from Jason himself, SPDIF sounds better than USB on the Bifrost -- or at least, this is true with the gen 1 USB interface.

Here is a review article about the Bifrost (regular) from Nov 2012:

http://www.audiostream.com/content/schiit-audio-bifrost-dac

Specifically,



> From the Schiit website's Bifrost FAQ page:
> 
> It’s a good-sounding, reliable, solid implementation of USB. But that’s like saying, “Well, its a very nice meal, given that the chef could only work with McDonald’s hamburgers.”
> 
> ...




This section of the FAQ seems to have been taken out, so perhaps the gen 2 USB does sound a little better than the gen 1. Still, if your source already has SPDIF, why not use it and save the $100 - $150?


----------



## Tuco1965

Gen 2 USB sounds as good as the other inputs.  If you don't need it, don't buy it, but if you do, it's great.


----------



## madwolfa

Maybe because Schiit's Gen 2 card is using more robust (better chip, async, etc) implementation of USB Audio protocol? I heard their Gen 1 USB implementation was an afterthought...
 I'm using all inputs (USB/Coax/Toslink) on my V-DACs and I don't hear any difference. Also Stereophile measurements show jitter level is negligible on either inputs.


----------



## Traum

Good to know that the new gen 2 USB Schiit sounds every bit as good as the SPDIF. Thanks!


----------



## RickB

rickb said:


> Ah, thanks. It was a mystery to me what was inappropriate about expressing a preference for one Schiit product over another in a Schiit Owner's thread.


 

 And now an admin has restored my deleted post, which he explained was accidentally removed.


----------



## hodgjy

traum said:


> Good to know that the new gen 2 USB Schiit sounds every bit as good as the SPDIF. Thanks!


 
 I just got a new Bifrost the other day, and I'm still working it though the paces.  I got it fully loaded with USB 2nd gen and Uber.
  
 To my ears, I can hear no difference in optical and coax.  I haven't tried the usb yet, but I'm expecting to hear no difference.  I can hear differences between amps and DACs, but I can't hear any difference in digital protocol with the Bifrost.  I did, however, hear a difference in USB over coax with the V-DAC ii.  USB was a little more congested.


----------



## Traum

hodgjy said:


> I just got a new Bifrost the other day, and I'm still working it though the paces.  I got it fully loaded with USB 2nd gen and Uber.
> 
> To my ears, I can hear no difference in optical and coax.  I haven't tried the usb yet, but I'm expecting to hear no difference.  I can hear differences between amps and DACs, but I can't hear any difference in digital protocol with the Bifrost.  I did, however, hear a difference in USB over coax with the V-DAC ii.  USB was a little more congested.



Hey Hodgiy,

Congrats on the fully loaded Bifrost Uber! If you have a chance to get around trying out all the different inputs, I'd love to hear your impressions on whether you notice any difference between them.


----------



## hodgjy

traum said:


> Hey Hodgiy,
> 
> Congrats on the fully loaded Bifrost Uber! If you have a chance to get around trying out all the different inputs, I'd love to hear your impressions on whether you notice any difference between them.


 
 Right now my laptop is at my office, but I might be able to try the USB over the weekend.


----------



## paradoxper

I've had much the same experience. Gungnir's USB and Optical were the same to me, Uber Bifrost much the same, though I didn't keep that in house very long. I've heard some difference with using the PWD and some other's,
 but nothing that's ever made me think optical was inferior and it's still my preferred choice.


----------



## madwolfa

madwolfa said:


> UPDATE: After some listening I can definitely confirm my impressions... The 'low gain' setting is much gentler to my ears. Sound is comfortable, mid-high frequencies are tamed down and the harshness is gone. It sounds more balanced and natural. Maybe less 'punch', but I definitely prefer it this way.


 
  
 Here's what Jason told about Asgard's 'low gain' mode...
  


> Asgard 2 uses #2 and #3--cascode topology, and much higher voltage rails (80V, as opposed to Asgard 1's 32V rails) to reduce distortion. It also uses a small amount of feedback in the low gain mode. So, distortion and output impedance are even lower in the low-gain mode (0.005%-ish and 0.6 ohms--ish).


----------



## huberd

I am glad someone explained how the low gain mode in the Asgard2 works, I had a hunch that Jason was just adding negative feedback. Adding negative feedback improves the sound. You can clearly hear it in the low gain mode. I asked the guys at Shiit if they could implement negative feedback in the Valhalla too but they said no. I wonder if they could make a Valhalla2 with a low and high gain mode? I did read that a tube naturally has negative feedback built in. Not sure if this is true but then it would not benefit from adding it to the circuit if it is.


----------



## fenderf4i

jaywillin said:


> i used these instructions, i'm pretty much a novice myself, but if one is careful, methodical, its pretty easy , the lights to go back in the holes gives some folks trouble, i used a pair of extra long needle nose pliers to help insert the LEDs  page 2, post 25 give some pictures
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade




No need to use pliers or anything to line the LED's up. The trick is to slide the circuit board into the main aluminum casing FIRST, which inserts the LED's into the holes very easily, THEN slide the dark grey inner casing in last. It took me all of 10 seconds to get the LED's in correctly this way. I am betting this is how they're originally assembled.


----------



## Dook0

Hi everyone, 
 I would like to pull the trigger for the gungnir and mjolnir combo.
 The thing is I am moving a lot (every 6 months) mostly in Europe and US.
 Is there any custom/mod for switching between 115V and 230V ? That could be awesome !
  
 Thank you !


----------



## hodgjy

dook0 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I would like to pull the trigger for the gungnir and mjolnir combo.
> The thing is I am moving a lot (every 6 months) mostly in Europe and US.
> Is there any custom/mod for switching between 115V and 230V ? That could be awesome !
> ...


 
 That would be cool.  But, I think all you'd need is a step transformer so you can run the non native plug in the other country.  Would work just fine.


----------



## kothganesh

dook0 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I would like to pull the trigger for the gungnir and mjolnir combo.
> The thing is I am moving a lot (every 6 months) mostly in Europe and US.
> Is there any custom/mod for switching between 115V and 230V ? That could be awesome !
> ...





dook0 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I would like to pull the trigger for the gungnir and mjolnir combo.
> The thing is I am moving a lot (every 6 months) mostly in Europe and US.
> Is there any custom/mod for switching between 115V and 230V ? That could be awesome !
> ...



I was in the same boat and ended up with the 230v. You just need to keep a transformer with you whenever you are in the "other" voltage zone.
Good luck.


----------



## Dook0

kothganesh said:


> dook0 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi everyone,
> ...




Thanks guys
I think I will do the same. Any ideas for a good transformer for a mjolnir 230V to plug in the US 110 V ? Will it have some noise induced by the transformer ?


----------



## noobandroid

curiosity is really fracking the schiit outta me, curious to try modi, but I have dacport LX. wanna try the vali, but i have magni. satisfaction and curiosity collides, supernova!!


----------



## Tuco1965

*Schiit Vortex*


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> *Schiit Vortex*


 
  
*Schiit Storm*


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

*The Schiit hit the fan*


----------



## noobandroid

Schiit Ass Guard on!


----------



## roguegeek

Ugh, my DAC died last night. Anyone experience what I'm experiencing or have some thoughts?


----------



## Chris ofc

I just got a new Schiit Valhalla tube amplifier, only having a slight problem.
 When i connect my headphones to the amplifier and dont play any music i hear a hiss / stutter on the left side of my headphones (Hd800)
 (if i switch the cable the stutter is on the other side). My HD 800's are fine.
  
 No source connected > Volume turned 0% = Stutter
 Source connected > Volume turned 0% = Stutter
 Source connected > Music playing = stutter (you can't hear it at higher volumes, but still at lower volume)
  
 Will this problem fix itself as the tubes burn in? or do i have faulty tubes / a broken amp?


----------



## StanD

chris ofc said:


> I just got a new Schiit Valhalla tube amplifier, only having a slight problem.
> When i connect my headphones to the amplifier and dont play any music i hear a hiss / stutter on the left side of my headphones (Hd800)
> (if i switch the cable the stutter is on the other side). My HD 800's are fine.
> 
> ...


 
 You might as well not waste too much time and start a conversation going with customer support.


----------



## hodgjy

Sounds like a bad tube.  Inform Schiit, and they'll send you some new ones.


----------



## john57

chris ofc said:


> I just got a new Schiit Valhalla tube amplifier, only having a slight problem.
> When i connect my headphones to the amplifier and dont play any music i hear a hiss / stutter on the left side of my headphones (Hd800)
> (if i switch the cable the stutter is on the other side). My HD 800's are fine.


 
 If you switch the cable to other side and the problem followed that could mean the cable or your source may be the issue.
 What cable are you talking about?


----------



## Chris ofc

Talking about the headphone cable..
 Got a brand newHD800 cable in today.. so that cant be the problem.
  
 Edit: i even tested it with an HD555, same problem / stuttering.


----------



## Byronb

definitely sounds like a tube to me. Call support they will fix you up.


----------



## Rem0o

Swap the tubes around and see if the noise follows.


----------



## hodgjy

As a follow up to a previous request, I was able to try out the Bifrost USB v2 tonight.  Compared to coax and optical, I can't hear any difference.  It works great as far as I'm concerned.  I'll rarely use it because I use the coax from my iPod dock.  But it's nice to know that it works great and gives me more flexibility.


----------



## Synergist969

Dear Jaywillin, Jay, Madwolfa, Traum, Tuco, et all:
  
     Thank you for your direct and/or indirect input regarding both Bifrost card update installation and qualities information as well as preferred digital source input connection, (though I am still just a tad unsure that there is a definitive answer regarding the second issue...)...However, the primary reason for my inquiries is as follows:
  
  
     I have thus far been feeding my Bifrost a coaxial input from my CD player, and sending that converted signal on to my stereo pre-amplifier, which then in turn sends that signal on to my main amplifier, loudspeakers etc., as well as sending that same analogue signal on to my Asgard 2, or Lyr...(and am quite happy with that...)
  
     However, so as to access the internet's streaming music sources,  I am also currently sending an analogue signal from my aging, (read 14 year old and dying), desk-top PC to my main stereo system/pre-amp.  The desk-top's digital to analogue conversion is courtesy of a 2+ year old Asus Xonar Essence ST PCI sound card, (pretty highly rated as a sound card/mini-headphone amp way back then)...the sound card's output I use is the stereo pair analogue out connectors.  Now, I anticipate this desk-top PC to eventually NOT boot up (fail) one day, so that I will have to utilize the USB 2, or USB 3 outputs on my Lenovo T530 Thinkpad lap-top...    THIS is the primary impetus for my inquiries... 
  
     Assuming that modern OUTBOARD D/A converters ARE generally better converters than modern INDWELLING/onboard computer card D/A converters(?)...(I otherwise would eventually have to replace my "dying" desk-top with another dedicated, "music desk-top PC" along with another, onboard PCI-E sound card...)...
  
   From what I have read on both the Schiit Audio website as well as that which has been volunteered on this head-fi/ Schiit Owners unite thread, it is unclear to me as to whether there is any consensus as to the best way to feed an outboard D/A converter a digital signal...(and I might have to go as long as 5 meters...)
  
 If indeed sending a digital signal up to 5 meters is definitely better done co-axially, is there a good suggestion regarding converting that USB 2, 3(?) output to a coaxial/SPDIF output...or is that simply just another component in the audio chain with the potential to corrupt that signal...?...
  
   I certainly would like to maximize my signal quality, as well as maximizing my output/input flexibility...while not simply wasting money...should you have read this far, thank you for any and all assistance you wish to provide...oh, and yes, I do realize that the science of psychoacoustics is inherently a combination of both the objective as well as the subjective...
  
 Thank you.
  
 Sincerely,
 T.A. Kogstrom
  
 P.S.  Perhaps someone from Schiit Audio might provide some additional information/clarification regarding signal input to output quality comparisons between SPDIF, Optical and USB 1,2, 3(?) as regards the latest generation Schiit Bifrost and above D/A converters...?...


----------



## jaywillin

synergist969 said:


> Dear Jaywillin, Jay, Madwolfa, Traum, Tuco, et all:
> 
> Thank you for your direct and/or indirect input regarding both Bifrost card update installation and qualities information as well as preferred digital source input connection, (though I am still just a tad unsure that there is a definitive answer regarding the second issue...)...However, the primary reason for my inquiries is as follows:
> 
> ...


 
 i think it might be hard to find any real consensus , i would believe any of the methods mentioned, can deliver very good sound if properly implemented ,
 and any differences may not even be audible


----------



## Tuco1965

If you have to go as long as 5 metres, then you likely have to rule out usb.  Any chance to move the dac closer to the pc?  You can run long rca cables to your stereo from it.  I run 1 foot cables to my Lyr and 35 foot cables to my stereo from the bifrost.  I use splitter blocks on the Bifrost to feed both.


----------



## HPiper

I think being as the signal is digital you shouldn't have a problem sending the signal quite a good distance so long as you use a high quality well shielded cable. Unless you work in a power station or some place where there is a LOT of RF and other electrical interference.


----------



## Tuco1965

Schiit advises to us 2M or shorter USB 2.0 cables.


----------



## StanD

If anyone elects to use USB, I happened to ask Schiit last night as to how much current the Bifrost USB port draws from the host, Nick replied about 90mA. He replied within a few hours, I didn't expect such a fast answer.


----------



## Snips

Since we are once again on the subject of USB, I remember someone mentioning several pages back then he solved the Bifrost audio cut out problem by disconnecting the ethernet cable. I happened to try that today, and I think it solved the problem. Curious, most curious.


----------



## Tuco1965

That was me using win 8.1.  Pisses me off that I can't find a solution yet.


----------



## Snips

Same. I'm still slightly tempted to throw my laptop out of the window so that I can get a desktop for SPDIF


----------



## Tuco1965

I have tried every combo of uninstalling devices, old drivers, new drivers, power management and I'm still perplexed at how ethernet causes this issue.


----------



## hodgjy

tuco1965 said:


> I have tried every combo of uninstalling devices, old drivers, new drivers, power management and I'm still perplexed at how ethernet causes this issue.


 
  
 It's possible that particular computers go on the cheap and easy now by running an ethernet port through the internal usb of the computer rather than giving it is own independent bus.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have no idea myself.  The only thing I was glad about was that I found what caused the dropout and leave ethernet disconnected unless needed for large file transfers.


----------



## hodgjy

You could look at the device manager and see where the ethernet is running though.


----------



## Tuco1965

FWIW I just can't be bothered to hunt it down any more.  Much better just listening to the music now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Since it has been -30C and below lately, I've had some pretty extended listening sessions.


----------



## Chris ofc

And as soon as the stutter apeared it disapeared again.. i gues the tubes are now burned in and the problem solved itself


----------



## Tuco1965

What exactly was stuttering if no music was being played?  Just curious as to what you were hearing.


----------



## Synergist969

To Whom it May Interest:
  
 ...LOL...So...it seems I continue to remain in the same conundrum...On the one hand, USB if properly implemented can be more than sufficient...then, again, Anything more than 2 meters might render that last assumption false...such that one should place the D/A (Bifrost) no farther than said 2 meters, if not closer...and then run long analog interconnects...
  
   Oh, and the best way to extract a digital signal out of a computer is a dedicated bus/SPDIF output...from a desktop...
  
   So, does that mean that, Ideally, in order to access the wealth of online, digital streaming audio, one should invest in a dedicated, music oriented desk-top PC., which has an SPDIF output...?...and in THAT case, would the quality of a sound card make ANY difference to the quality of the output digital signal,  or the quality of the motherboard and the SPDIF output from that board???  HELP PLEASE...
  
 Again,   Thank you for attempting to clarify what appears to be an increasingly murky subject...    ...
  
 Sincerely,
 T.A. Kogsrom


----------



## Byronb

I think you have to ask yourself, what works for your situation. If you need to go over 2 meters, then really USB is out for you. If that isn't an issue then you can start asking yourself if you have a machine that can feed quality USB or SPDIF. Then make your choice from there. If you just want to know which sounds the best, we all hear differently and you would have to determine that yourself by trying both.


----------



## Chris ofc

Even if music was playing, i heard a slight.. stutter. Imagine someone is slamming on a door in the distance, sounds like that.
 Cant really call it a stutter.
  
 Info about my rig:
  
 Source: PC,
 Dac: Matrix mini-i , connected trough Spdif
 Amp: Schiit valhalla
 Headphones: Sennheiser HD800


----------



## ponderoso

Is there no way to send a robust wi-fi signal from a PC to your dac? This would solve the 5 meter problem. I have a mac which I send a signal using airport extreme from to my Bifrost, seems to sound OK, although I don't think I have really put it to the test with my good headphones or anything rigorous.


----------



## john57

byronb said:


> I think you have to ask yourself, what works for your situation. If you need to go over 2 meters, then really USB is out for you. If that isn't an issue then you can start asking yourself if you have a machine that can feed quality USB or SPDIF. Then make your choice from there. If you just want to know which sounds the best, we all hear differently and you would have to determine that yourself by trying both.


 
 What I did was to use a UBS repeater cable.


----------



## brybry24

Can anybody compare the Magni & Modi stack with the Fiio E09K/E07K combo? I currently have the Fiio combo and might want to upgrade in the future. I use the AKG Q701s and so far I'm loving the combo.


----------



## noobandroid

brybry24 said:


> Can anybody compare the Magni & Modi stack with the Fiio E09K/E07K combo? I currently have the Fiio combo and might want to upgrade in the future. I use the AKG Q701s and so far I'm loving the combo.


 
 i think the schiit will be a significant upgrade, used to have fiio, now lost confidence on it, none of my things are fiio


----------



## Snips

tuco1965 said:


> FWIW I just can't be bothered to hunt it down any more.  Much better just listening to the music now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heh, I ended up avoiding my laptop and running an optical cable from my iPod & iPod dock into the Bifrost.


----------



## Neo-ST

I'm having a sound problem since I got Schiit Magni&Modi (a week ago).
 Every now and then, the sound disappears for few seconds, usually when loading some apps (like Chrome, etc.).
 It is most prominent while playing Battlefield 4, during one game it disappears at least 5-6 times randomly.
 Anyone had this problem before? Could the problem be caused by a cheap USB cable (2m length) ?


----------



## Spiral Out

It could be your usb cable. What is your player's buffer size set to? Async DACs need lower buffer sizes to keep from stuttering and dropping out.


----------



## Neo-ST

I don't know, but the problem is globally, sound generally disappears, BF4, Teamspeak, Skype, Foobar, whatever...


----------



## StanD

neo-st said:


> I'm having a sound problem since I got Schiit Magni&Modi (a week ago).
> Every now and then, the sound disappears for few seconds, usually when loading some apps (like Chrome, etc.).
> It is most prominent while playing Battlefield 4, during one game it disappears at least 5-6 times randomly.
> Anyone had this problem before? Could the problem be caused by a cheap USB cable (2m length) ?


 
 An expensive cable can't tell when you're loading an app, so a cheap cable can't do any better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You could jiggle the cable to check for a bad connection and if that turns up blank, then swap out to another cable. Assuming that you're running Windoze, I would also check the  task manager performance tab to see what memory and CPU usage is like when yiou have the problem.  Then of course there's drivers. Although, I believe the Modi doesn't require special USB drivers from Schiit, the ones you have for your motherboard or laptop might be the problem. You might have to uninstall and reinstall, also check to see if you have the latest and greatest. EVen if you have th Microsoft supplied one shoe fits all drivers, sometimes uninstalling completely and reinstalling can clear up issues. If you are using Microsoft delivered (Internet) drivers you can look to do this either from the driver properties for refreshing hardware in device manager, depending on how you approach this.


----------



## Spiral Out

I see, try a different USB port and a different cable if you have one laying around.


----------



## hodgjy

2 m cable shouldn't be the problem.  Schiit says that length is ok.  It's probably because the computer is being too taxed during some operations and it lags behind.  Try shutting down as many background tasks as possible, like virus checkers, etc, to free up memory and CPU cycles. 
  
 Also, turning off Aero seems to help a lot, too.


----------



## Spiral Out

Also try checking your DPC latency:
  
  
 http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


----------



## Neo-ST

Will try some of that, starting with cable, thanks.
 The computer is powerful enough and I'm running Win7 64bit.
 DCP latency 60 µs average, 71 max.
 I don't think there are better drivers for Modi than ones supplied with Win ?


----------



## Spiral Out

Your latency is excellent. I would bet its the cable. Try one with a ferrite bead if you have one. It could be an EMI issue.


----------



## knights

Bye Lyr, hello Mjoulnir


----------



## UmustBKidn

neo-st said:


> I'm having a sound problem since I got Schiit Magni&Modi (a week ago).
> Every now and then, the sound disappears for few seconds, usually when loading some apps (like Chrome, etc.).
> It is most prominent while playing Battlefield 4, during one game it disappears at least 5-6 times randomly.
> Anyone had this problem before? Could the problem be caused by a cheap USB cable (2m length) ?


 
  
 The major clue here is that you're playing game(s) when this happens. Games are absolutely the most CPU intensive chores, period. If you're using a nice graphics card, then some of the processing chores are offloaded to the GPU on the card. But it is still possible to drag down the system under heavy load.
  
 While I have heard of difficulties with cheap USB cables, I'm betting that's really not the issue here. It's more likely your game is dragging system performance down to the point where the machine can't deliver a constant stream of audio to your Schiit gear. I base that diagnosis entirely on your description above.
  
 Now, if you had said "gee, my audio cuts out when I wiggle my cables LIKE THIS", well, then I'd suggest trying another cable. I'm betting that's not the issue. The issue is more likely that you're stressing your machine with the game, and the audio can't keep up.


----------



## UmustBKidn

neo-st said:


> Will try some of that, starting with cable, thanks.
> The computer is powerful enough and I'm running Win7 64bit.
> DCP latency 60 µs average, 71 max.
> I don't think there are better drivers for Modi than ones supplied with Win ?


 
  
 You still don't mention what sort of system.
  
 Here's an idea: decrease the graphics quality on the game, and see if the problem goes away. Cutting down on the processing required to render high quality graphics will free up some CPU to process your audio.


----------



## StanD

umustbkidn said:


> You still don't mention what sort of system.
> 
> Here's an idea: decrease the graphics quality on the game, and see if the problem goes away. Cutting down on the processing required to render high quality graphics will free up some CPU to process your audio.


 
 Much earlier my advice was to jiggle the cable, switch cables, check performance with task manager and then drivers. I left details, don't know if it was tried,


----------



## StanD

knights said:


> Bye Lyr, hello Mjoulnir


 

 No more roll'in,


----------



## Neo-ST

umustbkidn said:


> You still don't mention what sort of system.
> 
> Here's an idea: decrease the graphics quality on the game, and see if the problem goes away. Cutting down on the processing required to render high quality graphics will free up some CPU to process your audio.


 
  
 I highly doubt it's the system's fault. I never had sound problems before, even while benchmarking the system (extremely CPU and RAM hungry app - IntelBurnTest).
 I'll try tonight to switch the cable.
  

 *CPU:* Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4 / EK Waterblocks mod
 *MBO:* ASRock P67 Extreme6
 *RAM:* 2 x 4gb DDR3 G.skill Sniper Series CL9 @ 1866mhz
 *HDD:* Samsung 470 Series 128gb
 *VGA:* nVidia GTX580 / EK Waterblocks mod
 *PSU:* Corsair HX850
 *OS:* Win7 Ultimate X64


----------



## UmustBKidn

stand said:


> Much earlier my advice was to jiggle the cable, switch cables, check performance with task manager and then drivers. I left details, don't know if it was tried,


 
  
 Understood. It's certainly worth a shot.
  
 About 4-odd years ago, I was into some high performance gaming. I had a chance to experience a 25-man raid in a D&D style game, and the old machine absolutely choked up and died an ugly death, as soon as the battle started. I decided my old computer was worthless, and decided to drop $1000 on a nice gaming computer. I got an i5-750, with a nice Nvidia graphics card, a WD 10,000 rpm hard drive, a very nice ASUS mobo, etc. That CPU clocks in stock close to a Passmark of about 4000, and overclocked it can get close to 5800. And the 25-man raid was no longer a problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Today, you can get a laptop on sale at Fry's for about $300 bucks, that will clock a passmark of about 2500-3000. Just another hundred bucks or so will get you a machine that can outdo my now 4 yr old desktop (stock speed, not overclocked). The high performance laptops are insane, the high end chips are well above 10,000 passmark now.
  
 If you're not crazy into gaming, then you can still get an inexpensive Nvidia card for about $30-40 that is a decent improvement over the built in graphics processing on either the Intel or AMD chips. That alone might resolve any lag in the audio reproduction.


----------



## UmustBKidn

neo-st said:


> I highly doubt it's the system's fault. I never had sound problems before, even while benchmarking the system (extremely CPU, GPU and RAM hungry app - IntelBurnTest).
> I'll try tonight to switch the cable.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Holy Cow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 LOL. Passmark 8600 for the CPU and 4900+ for the GPU.
 That's a lovely motherboard, by the way.
  
 Ok, that system should not be choking up on the game. ROFL. Now I'm laughing at myself for doubting your computer. Hah.
  
 So, yeah. Let's go back to the cables.


----------



## StanD

umustbkidn said:


> Holy Cow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And drivers.


----------



## UmustBKidn

stand said:


> And drivers.


 
  
 Hmm. Interesting thought. He is using win 7 ultimate. I just use windows 7 home premium (which really means, the cheap version). I haven't had any driver issues with my Modi on win 7 home premium. No clue if ultimate would be an issue.


----------



## Neo-ST

"Ultimate" cannot be an issue, it's the same platform, just with some features unlocked 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Regarding drivers, I don't know if they may cause problems, but I have 2 drivers installed currently, Modi's and my old Realtek's, which I use to listen to my mini-Hifi connected to my computer's soundcard. If cables don't work then I guess I should just format it and reinstall everything from scratch.


----------



## StanD

neo-st said:


> "Ultimate" cannot be an issue, it's the same platform, just with some features unlocked
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Modi doesn't have a special driver, it uses what either Microsoft has provided or you have installed for your specific hardware. Sometimes the registry setting or the driver or some other stuff goes sour. If that's the case a proper uninstall and reinstall of the latest and greatest for your hardware can fix it up.


----------



## noobandroid

spiral out said:


> Your latency is excellent. I would bet its the cable. Try one with a ferrite bead if you have one. It could be an EMI issue.


 
 my absolute max is 171, good or not?


----------



## Spiral Out

noobandroid said:


> my absolute max is 171, good or not?


 
 Thats good. You don't want to have any spikes above 500. I get about the same as you do on my machine.


----------



## fenderf4i

The big one is getting embarrassed by the little one. The Vali sounds amazing!


----------



## noobandroid

fenderf4i said:


> The big one is getting embarrassed by the little one. The Vali sounds amazing!


 
 vali > magni ?


----------



## StanD

noobandroid said:


> vali > magni ?


 
 The amp on the right looks like an Asgard 2, not a Magni. I have the same 3 pieces of Schiit.


----------



## noobandroid

stand said:


> The amp on the right looks like an Asgard 2, not a Magni. I have the same 3 pieces of Schiit.


 
 he said the vali sounds amazing, but i have magni, so i was thinking should i up or not, since i really like how the magni sounds, but curious on vali


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> The big one is getting embarrassed by the little one. The Vali sounds amazing!


 
 I've also got both amps. Although the Vali sounds amazing for it's incredible price, the Asgard 2 goes even further. For example the Vali can barely drive my HE-500's while the Asgard 2 has an easy time of it.


----------



## StanD

noobandroid said:


> he said the vali sounds amazing, but i have magni, so i was thinking should i up or not, since i really like how the magni sounds, but curious on vali


 
 If you intend on driving lower sensitivity cans, the Magni has more juice. If you have very sensitive cans, the noise floor of the Vali will come through. I have an Asgard 2 as my go to amp and the Vali for some fun and placed it my house in a location for more casual listening.
 The even order harmonic distortion, "tube sound," of the Vali is not overly strong and may not be apparent to all.


----------



## noobandroid

stand said:


> I've also got both amps. Although the Vali sounds amazing for it's incredible price, the Asgard 2 goes even further. For example the Vali can barely drive my HE-500's while the Asgard 2 has an easy time of it.


 
 so it's more about the driving power rather than the quality of sound? I'm using Q701


----------



## StanD

noobandroid said:


> so it's more about the driving power rather than the quality of sound? I'm using Q701


 
 Nope, my post that followed mention that the tube sound is not as apparent in the Vali as well as the implications of its higher noise floor. If its SQ sucked, I would have ate the restocking fee and sent it home to Schiit.


----------



## fenderf4i

I'm finding the Vali/Grado combination softer/warmer and more enjoyable than the Asgard/Grado combination right now. Two different sounds.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> I'm finding the Vali/Grado combination softer/warmer and more enjoyable than the Asgard/Grado combination right now. Two different sounds.


 
 I wonder what you might think if you could volume match both amps and have a toggle switch to immediately flip back and forth between both amps. I bough some parts to build such a box, when I have time, I'll build it. Nonetheless, I don't have a Grado.


----------



## fenderf4i

I have a couple of switching boxes that Fiio made just for that purpose. I'll have to see if I have enough of the right cables to do it.


----------



## metaldood

noobandroid said:


> vali > magni ?


 
 This crossed my mind too. Maybe Asgard 2 + modi is better.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> I have a couple of switching boxes that Fiio made just for that purpose. I'll have to see if I have enough of the right cables to do it.


 
 Cool, I've seen the FiiO box but it was never in stock so I'll have to make my own. I bought 1/8" and 1/4" jacks so every termination will have both types of connections and a two pole center off switch. I got this switch so that another person can flip it to the middle and then either way so that I couldn't tell what happend. I'll probably bring the L and R wires to some posts so that I can put a meter to either channel. In the future I'll probably add RCA jacks as well.


----------



## Neo-ST

Just tried with another, thicker (and by the looks, higher quality) USB cable.
 This time, interruptions occurred only 3-4 times, but they're still present nevertheless.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have a dropout issue if I use ethernet instead of wifi on my laptop.  Windows 8.1.  I have not found any solution other than just using wifi while playing music.  Just thought I would mention it because it can be hard to find the problem sometimes.


----------



## goozy

neo-st said:


> Just tried with another, thicker (and by the looks, higher quality) USB cable.
> This time, interruptions occurred only 3-4 times, but they're still present nevertheless.


 
 Download USBlyzer and see whats going with the USB buses in your comp. See if you can plug into one thats not being used.


----------



## fenderf4i

This should do the trick! The output from the Bifrost is split to each amp, and the output from each amp goes to a Fiio HS-2 switching box. I will fire it up this evening when I'm back home, and see what happens!!


----------



## Neo-ST

goozy said:


> Download USBlyzer and see whats going with the USB buses in your comp. See if you can plug into one thats not being used.


 
  
 I've been playing BF4 for the last 1 hour and so far no problems.
  
 I switched from Etron USB 3.0 port to Intel USB 2.0 port. Probably the culprit was ****ty Etron controller.
 I also tried USBlyzer and it didn't show any errors.


----------



## Traum

^^ I think that's your problem right there -- using a USB3 port. A lot of people have run into issues when connecting their DAC to USB3 ports, but the problem goes away when you use a regular USB2 port.


----------



## Spiral Out

traum said:


> ^^ I think that's your problem right there -- using a USB3 port. A lot of people have run into issues when connecting their DAC to USB3 ports, but the problem goes away when you use a regular USB2 port.


 
 Yes, that would be the problem. USB 3.0 ports on some computers work fine with dacs, others not so much.


----------



## madwolfa

spiral out said:


> Yes, that would be the problem. USB 3.0 ports on some computers work fine with dacs, others not so much.


 
  
 The problem is that most USB 3.0 ports on older mobos are realized through the 3rd party chips with their own drivers and quirks.
 I'd never plug in any kind of sensitive, realtime processing equipment like DAC into that. CF card reader maybe (for the bandwidth alone).


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> This should do the trick! The output from the Bifrost is split to each amp, and the output from each amp goes to a Fiio HS-2 switching box. I will fire it up this evening when I'm back home, and see what happens!!


 
 So who's gonna blind fold you and be flipping the switch?


----------



## fenderf4i

stand said:


> So who's gonna blind fold you and be flipping the switch?


 
  
  
 I didn't need anyone to do that.
  
 The Fiio box works amazingly well. If you flip the switch quickly between amps, there is no audible break in the music. It's an instantaneous change between them.
  
*The results have me rethinking everything.*


----------



## CJs06

fenderf4i said:


> I didn't need anyone to do that.
> 
> The Fiio box works amazingly well. If you flip the switch quickly between amps, there is no audible break in the music. It's an instantaneous change between them.
> 
> *The results have me rethinking everything.*


Oh wow thats cool, how does it affect the signal chain in this case. I'm curious.


----------



## fenderf4i

I can't see it affecting anything at all. It's a very simple design, it literally just switches between the four inputs. You can use it in reverse as well, to switch between up to four different headphones between one amplifier.


----------



## hodgjy

fenderf4i said:


> I can't see it affecting anything at all. It's a very simple design, it literally just switches between the four inputs. You can use it in reverse as well, to switch between up to four different headphones between one amplifier.


 
 Be careful with multi switches.  Sometimes, they can introduce just minor deterioration.  Other times, they allow devices to "see" each other, which also has undesired effects.


----------



## Rem0o

fenderf4i said:


> *The results have me rethinking everything.*


 
  
 So?


----------



## fenderf4i

They sounded identical.

I'm trying to figure out what to think about that. Before switching between them like I did, I really thought the Vali was warmer and not as bright. Switching between them immediately, I couldn't tell any difference whatsoever.


----------



## Rem0o

fenderf4i said:


> They sounded identical.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what to think about that. Before switching between them like I did, I really thought the Vali was warmer and not as bright. Switching between them immediately, I couldn't tell any difference whatsoever.


 
 Impressive is the power of expectation/confirmation bias, huh?


----------



## mikiphile

Hello good people of Head-fi, whats up? Since the Lyr threads seem to be quite inactive these days, I figured im gonna post here.

 I have owned a Lyr for some time now, but I have never experienced such a thing before. Has anyone's Lyr ever "exploded"??

 I just switched it on to listen to some music and after about 10 sec (no headphones plugged in), as I sat down next to it, I heard an explosion and the entire floor of the house went dark. Basically, my Lyr is on the left of my chair on a nice little table at an arms length from me. It took me 2-3 seconds to realize what had happened and I immediately pulled the plugs out, as I saw the white light dimming.

 Ok, i am not exaggerating, it was not a "pop" or a "puff", it was a full blown exploding sound!

 Now, after putting the circuit-breakers back up and explaining to everyone what had happened, I removed the tubes and sensed a burnt smell. My heart stopped. After putting them back (10 mins later) , I plugged it back in and it switched on... 30 mins later, im listening to music!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?? 

 Anyone has an idea what the helll just happened? I am thinking, could the circuit have been overloaded, or the built-in safety of the Lyr triggered? I cant think of any other rational explanation.. Also, could this destroy my headphones?
  
 Honestly, to me, all that matters now is that my Lyr is fine, as well as my tubes..


----------



## Tuco1965

You should contact Schiit.


----------



## madwolfa

rem0o said:


> Impressive is the power of expectation/confirmation bias, huh?


 
  
 That pretty much confirms the idea any decent well-engineered amplifier should sound more or less the same as another (for an average human being, at least).


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> That pretty much confirms the idea any decent well-engineered amplifier should sound more or less the same as another (for an average human being, at least).


We Head-Fiers must consider ourselves above average then


----------



## Rem0o

madwolfa said:


> That pretty much confirms the idea any decent *well-engineered amplifier (tubes or SS)* should sound more or less the same as another (for an average human being, at least).


 
 Nailed it.


----------



## mwillits

fenderf4i said:


> They sounded identical.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out what to think about that. Before switching between them like I did, I really thought the Vali was warmer and not as bright. Switching between them immediately, I couldn't tell any difference whatsoever.


 
  
 Wow, wasn't expecting such an outcome. Wondering if you tried with different headphones if you'd notice any differences?


----------



## fenderf4i

mwillits said:


> Wow, wasn't expecting such an outcome. Wondering if you tried with different headphones if you'd notice any differences?




That's one of the things I'm wondering about. Will something more demanding of an amp like the LCD2's give a different result? I will hopefully find out soon.


----------



## ssmith622

~~I know it was a long shot but I was hoping the balanced Schiit preamp would work with my balanced electronic crossover. Does someone have a list of amplifiers that will work with balanced Schiit preamp?


----------



## madwolfa

mwillits said:


> Wow, wasn't expecting such an outcome. Wondering if you tried with different headphones if you'd notice any differences?


 
  
 That kinda compliments Vali.


----------



## Tuco1965

I wonder how hi impedance cans would fair?


----------



## roguegeek

tuco1965 said:


> I wonder how hi impedance cans would fair?


 
 With Vali? On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm wondering how IEMs and highly efficient cans like a Porta Pro or PX 100-II would do on Vali myself. I know they don't work at all with the high gain of the Magni, but I also know the Vali is less powerful.


----------



## hodgjy

We mustn't ever forget Leibig's Law of the Minimum.  If the headphones are the weak link in the chain, amps will all sound the same.  When the headphones are the strongest link in the chain, you may be able to perceive differences in the amps.


----------



## fenderf4i

What I'm going to take away from this for now is that, expectation bias is very interesting. My feeling is that the headphones are the limiting factor here, as we all know that Grado's don't require much for amping in the first place.

And most of all, I love my Schiit no matter what!


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> What I'm going to take away from this for now is that, expectation bias is very interesting. My feeling is that the headphones are the limiting factor here, as we all know that Grado's don't require much for amping in the first place.
> 
> And most of all, I love my Schiit no matter what!


 
 So your Schiit don't stink, eh?


----------



## Kon Peki

I have a Modi and Magni and think they sound amazing together with my HE-400 and DT770 Pro.  I just bought the Asgard 2 so I can use with both my headphones and Audioengine A5+ desktop speakers, which is not possible with the Magni.  So I guess I'll be using the Modi with the Asgard 2. 
  
 Now I'm wondering about getting a Bifrost Uber to replace the Modi.  The Bifrost Uber with USB is $519, not inexpensive to me, so I'll stick with the Modi unless the Bifrost Uber is going to make a noticeable difference in overall sound quality...


----------



## Rem0o

kon peki said:


> I have a Modi and Magni and think they sound amazing together with my HE-400 and DT770 Pro.  I just bought the Asgard 2 so I can use with both my headphones and Audioengine A5+ desktop speakers, which is not possible with the Magni.  So I guess I'll be using the Modi with the Asgard 2.
> 
> Now I'm wondering about getting a Bifrost Uber to replace the Modi.  The Bifrost Uber with USB is $519, not inexpensive to me, so I'll stick with the Modi unless the Bifrost Uber is going to make a noticeable difference in overall sound quality...


 
 I suggest the 15 day try offered by Schiit, no better way than trying it in your system.


----------



## StanD

kon peki said:


> I have a Modi and Magni and think they sound amazing together with my HE-400 and DT770 Pro.  I just bought the Asgard 2 so I can use with both my headphones and Audioengine A5+ desktop speakers, which is not possible with the Magni.  So I guess I'll be using the Modi with the Asgard 2.
> 
> Now I'm wondering about getting a Bifrost Uber to replace the Modi.  The Bifrost Uber with USB is $519, not inexpensive to me, so I'll stick with the Modi unless the Bifrost Uber is going to make a noticeable difference in overall sound quality...


 
 Specwise the Uber has an SNR that is 7.5 dB better, so it's quieter. But does the Modi seem noisey to you? The distortion levels between both products are in the thousandths of a percent, that shouldn't register with a human being. The FR is flat for either product.
 In any case, they got me for a Uber USB Bifrost. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The newer USB Gen 2 of the Bifrost is very good and it has Optical and Coax SPDIF inputs. I need all the input capability.
 So who's gonna do a proper ABX test and put up a review?


----------



## Kon Peki

stand said:


> Specwise the Uber has an SNR that is 7.5 dB better, so it's quieter. But does the Modi seem noisey to you?


 
  
 No, the Modi sounds amazing to me.  Just wondering what I'm missing is all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## ruleof72

I've had the Magni for just about a year, powering my Mad Dogs from the RCA outputs on my Squeezebox Classic. I love the sound that Magni and Mad Dogs make together, they seem built for each other. Now, I'm considering a DAC upgrade to see if I can get some improvement compared to the internal DAC on the Squeezebox. I'd love to try the Modi but it won't work w/the Squeezebox. So, I'm looking at the Bifrost which is 4x the cost of the Modi.
  
 I'm wondering if the upgrade in sound quality will be worth the nearly $500 that the Bifrost will require and how well the Bifrost/Magni/Mad Dog setup works together.
  
 Any feedback most appreciated!


----------



## Rudiger

ruleof72 said:


> I've had the Magni for just about a year, powering my Mad Dogs from the RCA outputs on my Squeezebox Classic. I love the sound that Magni and Mad Dogs make together, they seem built for each other. Now, I'm considering a DAC upgrade to see if I can get some improvement compared to the internal DAC on the Squeezebox. I'd love to try the Modi but it won't work w/the Squeezebox. So, I'm looking at the Bifrost which is 4x the cost of the Modi.
> 
> I'm wondering if the upgrade in sound quality will be worth the nearly $500 that the Bifrost will require and how well the Bifrost/Magni/Mad Dog setup works together.
> 
> Any feedback most appreciated!


 
 I answered you partly on the topic Schiit Bifrost Uber Analog Upgrade.


----------



## mwillits

roguegeek said:


> With Vali? On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm wondering how IEMs and highly efficient cans like a Porta Pro or PX 100-II would do on Vali myself. I know they don't work at all with the high gain of the Magni, but I also know the Vali is less powerful.


 
  
 I was thinking much the same. I'm considering a setup to have at my desk at work. For this situation, the Modi+Vali combo is very tempting. However, my listening would be through a pair of Etymotic ER-4PT IEMs with the P-to-S adapter (so I really don't need a particularly powerful amp in this case). With the Etymotics, I'm wondering how well the Modi + Vali might work / sound as compared to the Magni + Vali combo. 
  
 For that matter, my other thought is to use my existing FiiO E17 (which I do like)  with either the Magni or Vali, just so I wouldn't need to by yet another DAC.


----------



## mwillits

fenderf4i said:


> What I'm going to take away from this for now is that, expectation bias is very interesting. My feeling is that the headphones are the limiting factor here, as we all know that Grado's don't require much for amping in the first place.
> 
> And most of all, I love my Schiit no matter what!


 
  
 This definitely deserves a Round 2, so looking forward to if / when you try out some different headphones (and I'll toss in a request for some IEMs, if I may). Have you had anyone else take a listen with the initial setup? Perhaps that might help mitigate the expectation bias variable if they come into the test without knowing which amp is active.


----------



## Kon Peki

I just sent these questions to info@schiit but would also appreciate info from other Schiit users:
  


> Here's my situation:
> All my music is coming from a PC which has a Creative Sound Blaster Z card that has optical SPDIF out.
> 
> Currently I'm using your Modi via USB (bypassing the sound card altogether) with a Magni and just ordered an Asgard 2 from you as well.
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

I tried all three digital inputs on my Bifrost Uber and can hear no difference between them.  Pick the most convenient connection for you and run with it.


----------



## mwillits

kon peki said:


> I just sent these questions to info@schiit but would also appreciate info from other Schiit users:


 
  
 Those are really good questions. I'm willing to bet (maybe a coffee and from my limited experience) that the PC USB --> Bifrost Uber Gen2 USB will be the better route of the two options. It seems more direct than going from the PC through the soundcard and then out to the Bifrost. I'm not sure how the soundcard might alter things in the chain as compared to straight out from USB. That be a good thing with which to experiment and report back. I'll be very interested to read what the folks at Schiit have to say. 
  
 That said, from what I've read around the forums, the Gen2 USB really upped the game for Bifrost. I currently have the Bifrost Uber Gen2 USB and run it through USB exclusively to a Schiit Lyr.


----------



## Tuco1965

I find all inputs sound the same on my Uber.  I can't tell any difference.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mikiphile said:


> Hello good people of Head-fi, whats up? Since the Lyr threads seem to be quite inactive these days, I figured im gonna post here.
> 
> I have owned a Lyr for some time now, but I have never experienced such a thing before. Has anyone's Lyr ever "exploded"??
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, if it really was your Lyr that "exploded", then I am really impressed that it's now somehow working again.
  
 I am not surprised that your tubes are still working. Tubes don't "blow out" like other electronic components do. I would fully expect the rest of the device to burn to a crisp before the tubes would die. When I worked on tubes, we used to use high voltage charges from a huge capacitor to blow contamination off the ceramic isolators inside the tube envelope. That would make them run _*better*_. LOL.
  
 What you're describing sounds like an electrical arc of some kind. They do sound like an explosion. The question to me is, what did it come from? You presume that it came from your Lyr. I'm not quite so sure. It could also have come from the electrical socket that the Lyr is plugged into. It might also come from the cord socket that plugs into your Lyr. If I were you, I would closely inspect both ends of your power cord, and that electrical socket. If you find black marks on any part of the cord or the socket, replace both.
  
 Any sort of unexpected conductor that lands across an electric potential can cause an arc. It's difficult to speculate because so many different materials can be conductive under the right circumstances.
  
 I would also suggest sending your Lyr to Schiit and have them inspect it. It's possible that something fell or blew into a vent opening and caused a temporary short circuit. Evidence of this would include odd looking black marks or streaks on the circuit board.
  
 Bottom line, I would attempt to determine the source of the arc. You'll know it when you find a trace of black streaks somewhere, which is evidence of the "unexpected conductor" landing across a potential somewhere. The remnants of the explosion should get cleaned up, and anything that got damaged should be replaced.


----------



## john57

Sounds like the high B+ voltage arced over. I used to have a custom made tube amp using much bigger tubes and one time the high voltage arc over inside the tube. It did sound like a bomb went off.


----------



## T Bone

kon peki said:


> Now I'm wondering about getting a Bifrost Uber to replace the Modi.  The Bifrost Uber with USB is $519, not inexpensive to me, so I'll stick with the Modi unless the Bifrost Uber is going to make a noticeable difference in overall sound quality...


 
  
 If you're patient - you might be able to score a real bargain when Bifrost owners start upgrading to the soon-to-be-released Yggdrasil.  
 I'm predicting that a number of Bifrost DAC's will start appearing in the classified forum here when guys start buying the new hotness.  If that happens you should be able to score quite a bargain.


----------



## T Bone

ruleof72 said:


> I'm wondering if the upgrade in sound quality will be worth the nearly $500 that the Bifrost will require


 
 ...and I'm wondering the same thing about the forth-coming Schiit ~$1,500 Yggdrasil.  Will the improvement in sound be worth the $$$ to upgrade from my "Überfrost".  ....or will the benefits of a better DAC only be realized by upgrading everything else "down-stream" of the DAC.


----------



## Kon Peki

mwillits said:


> Those are really good questions. I'm willing to bet (maybe a coffee and from my limited experience) that the PC USB --> Bifrost Uber Gen2 USB will be the better route of the two options. It seems more direct than going from the PC through the soundcard and then out to the Bifrost. I'm not sure how the soundcard might alter things in the chain as compared to straight out from USB. That be a good thing with which to experiment and report back. I'll be very interested to read what the folks at Schiit have to say.
> 
> That said, from what I've read around the forums, the Gen2 USB really upped the game for Bifrost. I currently have the Bifrost Uber Gen2 USB and run it through USB exclusively to a Schiit Lyr.


 
  
 Here's the reply I got from Schiit:
  


> You don’t technically need the USB input, unless you need 24/192 capability—optical is usually limited to 24/96. The sound is pretty much equivalent, with maybe a slight edge to USB.


 
  
 Not sure what to make of that.  We're all looking for that "slight edge", right?


----------



## Snips

t bone said:


> ...and I'm wondering the same thing about the forth-coming Schiit ~$1,500 Yggdrasil.  Will the improvement in sound be worth the $$$ to upgrade from my "Überfrost".  ....or will the benefits of a better DAC only be realized by upgrading everything else "down-stream" of the DAC.


 
  
 People say that being an audiophile is mostly about chasing for that last 1% of performance. To some people and for some gear, that final 1% makes a difference. Others chase it simply because they can. It's all up to you to decide whether it's worth it or not.


----------



## Kon Peki

snips said:


> People say that being an audiophile is mostly about chasing for that last 1% of performance. To some people and for some gear, that final 1% makes a difference. Others chase it simply because they can. It's all up to you to decide whether it's worth it or not.


 
  
 I'm no audiophile then.  I'm chasing the first 96% of performance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## hodgjy

kon peki said:


> Here's the reply I got from Schiit:
> 
> 
> Not sure what to make of that.  We're all looking for that "slight edge", right?


 
 Optical, at least on paper, has the most jitter when compared to coax and async USB.  Whether or not you can hear that is a different story.  Also, electrical signals need to be converted to light and then back to digital for the optical implementation. That can lead to errors.
  
 However, I have very sensitive ears, and I can hear slight differences between DACs and amps.  Saying that, though, I can't hear any difference between the three digital inputs on my Bifrost.


----------



## john57

I always found so far that optical tend to be somewhat a bit softer than the coax on several of the DAC's I tried.


----------



## joebobbilly

I recently A/B'ed the USB vs SPDIF on my Gungnir... difference is there... but very very (and i mean very) subtle... slight soundstage/ambient room sound diff... (hard to describe... the ceiling of the sound/room feels a tad bigger in USB?) only really notice if you do direct immediate comparisons so the sound is held in your memory. If they were separate I wouldn't know at all.


----------



## mwillits

jason stoddard said:


> ...and sorry about that soul-selling "for all ancestors, for all eternity" clause in the owner's manual.


 
  
 Having been the owner of (in this order) Modi (one for me, one for my wife), Gungnir + Asgard2, and now Bifrost Uber + Lyr, I can say that you could've put the clause, "...and your firstborn as well" in the owner's manual and I'd have happily signed the child over (assuming I were to have one).
  
 Thanks for making some terrific devices that, in their own way, make life just a bit better and happier for everyone.


----------



## Gerzom

I just completed my second Schiit stack (after Magni-Modi) 
  
 Gungnir-Mjolnir, damn what is this a awesome sounding combination with my Audeze LCD 2.2


----------



## Snips

mwillits said:


> Having been the owner of (in this order) Modi (one for me, one for my wife), Gungnir + Asgard2, and now Bifrost Uber + Lyr, I can say that you could've put the clause, "...and your firstborn as well" in the owner's manual and I'd have happily signed the child over (assuming I were to have one).
> 
> Thanks for making some terrific devices that, in their own way, make life just a bit better and happier for everyone.


 
  
 Huh, you can say that you have a family full of Schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Seriously though, I hope that I can find a wife like that in the future. One who won't have anything to say about me spending $$$ on all the audio equipment.


----------



## kothganesh

gerzom said:


> I just completed my second Schiit stack (after Magni-Modi)
> 
> Gungnir-Mjolnir, damn what is this a awesome sounding combination with my Audeze LCD 2.2



Congrats. IMO, the Schiit gear is really tuned to the Audez'e headphones. Try the LCD 3 with the Gungnur/Mojo as we'll if you can.


----------



## mwillits

Huh, you can say that you have a family full of Schiit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Haha, that's true! To be fair, I've been good about selling off the stuff I don't need or want (luckily, the resale value of Schiit gear is high...kinda regretting selling off that Gungnir...), AND, I make sure that I get stuff that we can share. She actually has a much larger music collection than I do, so having decent audio gear around our place helps. 
  
 Besides, everyone was telling me I needed to find a hobby...can't fault me for choosing head-fi, right? Right?!


----------



## Gerzom

kothganesh said:


> Congrats. IMO, the Schiit gear is really tuned to the Audez'e headphones. Try the LCD 3 with the Gungnur/Mojo as we'll if you can.


 
 Thanks!!
 Regarding the LCD 3, I'm too scared I will fall in love with that combo, so for now I'll stick with my LCD 2.2


----------



## joebobbilly

The dangerous part... is I'm wondering how it'll go with the LCDX... anyone know?


----------



## timpicks

So... a little off-topic perhaps, but after living with my Lyr and "Uberfrost" for a couple of weeks (coupled with the HE-500's), I have one (and only one) request from Jason and Mike:
  
*Could you please, please, please put power buttons on the front?*
  
 Otherwise, what a fantastic little desktop setup I've got going here!  Anyone with me?


----------



## elvergun

timpicks said:


> Anyone with me?


 
 Me


----------



## noobandroid

timpicks said:


> So... a little off-topic perhaps, but after living with my Lyr and "Uberfrost" for a couple of weeks (coupled with the HE-500's), I have one (and only one) request from Jason and Mike:
> 
> *Could you please, please, please put power buttons on the front?*
> 
> Otherwise, what a fantastic little desktop setup I've got going here!  Anyone with me?


 
 +1


----------



## fenderf4i

I like the switches in the rear.


----------



## jexby

+1

DAC switch stays on 24x7 anyhow for me,
Turning amp on / off a couple times a day is no hassle.
Switches in back leave front panel sleak and stylish.


----------



## CJs06

fenderf4i said:


> I like the switches in the rear.


 

 Same here, not that its a big deal.


----------



## Maxvla

Switches on the back are done that way for a reason. Having power lines running through your chassis is a good way to get bad sound. I've always wondered why they didn't try some sort of cantilever type mechanism that had front push button with a beam through the chassis to push a button at the back near the power supply. This solves both issues, but does introduce complexity. Other designers have used similar methods for volume control so that internal board layout could be superior, while still having a proper volume knob.







I had hoped to see this solution be part of the premium paid for Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, but it appears not. I can understand not having this for the lower priced models, though.


----------



## UmustBKidn

timpicks said:


> So... a little off-topic perhaps, but after living with my Lyr and "Uberfrost" for a couple of weeks (coupled with the HE-500's), I have one (and only one) request from Jason and Mike:
> 
> *Could you please, please, please put power buttons on the front?*
> 
> Otherwise, what a fantastic little desktop setup I've got going here!  Anyone with me?


 
  
 What, you mean you turn yours off?


----------



## Snips

umustbkidn said:


> What, you mean you turn yours off?


 
  
 You don't?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To be fair though, the weather here is pretty hot, so I like to turn off my electronics when they aren't in use.


----------



## timpicks

umustbkidn said:


> What, you mean you turn yours off?


 

 Heh heh... well, I wouldn't want the tubes to burn out too quickly, now would I? 

 To those who've said they don't mind the power switch in back (or that electronically it's more sound), thanks for the feedback.  Luckily I'm not housing my Lyr/Bifrost combo in a cabinet, so I can easily flip the switches on back.  But if I ever decided to hide the Lyr behind my computer monitor it would be a pain to get to the back of the unit to turn it on.  That's the main reason I made the suggestion.


----------



## UmustBKidn

timpicks said:


> Heh heh... well, I wouldn't want the tubes to burn out too quickly, now would I?


 
  


snips said:


> You don't??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, that was really a remark that implied, Schiit is so good, I never turn it off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Ok, so I'm not so good with humor.


----------



## NinjaHamster

The 





t bone said:


> ...and I'm wondering the same thing about the forth-coming Schiit ~$1,500 Yggdrasil.  Will the improvement in sound be worth the $$$ to upgrade from my "Überfrost".  ....or will the benefits of a better DAC only be realized by upgrading everything else "down-stream" of the DAC.




The Yggi is going to be closer to $1900, I'm afraid.


----------



## fenderf4i

Question, do you hear the noise floor on the Lyr with LCD-2's?


----------



## dailydoseofdaly

I had that combo for a couple years and it wasn't noisey unless paired with unusually noises tubes


----------



## elvergun

fenderf4i said:


> Question, do you hear the noise floor on the Lyr with LCD-2's?


 
  
 I don't hear any noise with my HD800.  
  
  
 The T5p is noisy with cheap tubes and dead quiet with my good tubes.


----------



## jaywillin

fenderf4i said:


> Question, do you hear the noise floor on the Lyr with LCD-2's?


 
  
  


dailydoseofdaly said:


> I had that combo for a couple years and it wasn't noisey unless paired with unusually noises tubes


 
  
  


elvergun said:


> I don't hear any noise with my HD800.
> 
> 
> The T5p is noisy with cheap tubes and dead quiet with my good tubes.


 

 i can second the results given here, never noticed and noise with grado's either, unless it was the tube


----------



## fenderf4i

dailydoseofdaly said:


> I had that combo for a couple years and it wasn't noisey unless paired with unusually noises tubes







elvergun said:


> I don't hear any noise with my HD800.
> 
> 
> The T5p is noisy with cheap tubes and dead quiet with my good tubes.







jaywillin said:


> i can second the results given here, never noticed and noise with grado's either, unless it was the tube




Well, in that case, I think I'm settled on a pair of LCD-2's and a Lyr to compliment my Asgard 2 and PS500's! Thanks everyone.


----------



## antikryst

Can anyone shed some light on what improvements I will hear from upgrading from a magni to an asgard 2. Or from a magni to a lyr (stock tubes for now) using an he500? Interested to hear from those who actually upgraded or own the magni asgard 2 and lyr. Planning to get a bifrost Uber too to replace my modi but more curious on the changes the amp will bring. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## hsubox

antikryst said:


> Can anyone shed some light on what improvements I will hear from upgrading from a magni to an asgard 2. Or from a magni to a lyr (stock tubes for now) using an he500? Interested to hear from those who actually upgraded or own the magni asgard 2 and lyr. Planning to get a bifrost Uber too to replace my modi but more curious on the changes the amp will bring.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk




Not sure about the HE-500 specifically, but at the headfi meet in Austin back in January, I got to listen to the Magni and the Asgard 2 back to back. The Asgard 2 is definitely a cleaner and fuller sound on both of my Grados that I brought. I think it's worth the extra $150, definitely.


----------



## timpicks

I'm the proud owner of a Lyr/Uberfrost and HE-500's, so I can tell you what that combo sounds like.  I haven't, however, listened to the Asgard 2 so I can't give you an A/B.  
  
 But I can say that the Lyr is going to last me virtually forever with the 6W per channel output.  Hard to imagine ever needing more power.  As for the sound, both my Lyr and my HE-500's are still breaking in (roughly 50 hours), but the sound is what I'd call 'tight'.  Everything sounds punchy and fast and clean.  At first it seemed almost too bright, but I'm noticing now that the low-end is coming around nicely.  It's a very, very balanced, "reference" sound.  But then again, that's what the HE-500's are known for.  
  
 I'm about to do some tube rolling, which is also a huge advantage the Lyr has over the Asgard.  With the Lyr you get multiple amps - just stick in new tubes!  So that's something to think about.
  
 Also, I think you'll find this article very interesting.  It's a comparison of three Schiit amps - and you might be surprised at the winner!
  
http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/


----------



## Traum

Haven't tried an Asgard or Asgard 2 myself, but when I upgrade from the Magni to Lyr (with stock tubes), I did some straight A-to-B comparisons using the same DAC to drive the amps. My biggest takeaway from the amp upgrade was the richer, fuller, and more mellow sound from the Lyr. The soundstage became a lot more spacious, and the resulting separation of instruments was incredible. With the Beyer DT880, the Lyr was also not as bright as the Magni, and I appreciated that.


----------



## Spiral Out

Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Vali? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade?


----------



## antikryst

thanks for the feedback.
  
 hopefully those who upgraded from the magni to the asgard 2 and lyr using the he500 could chime in.


----------



## RickB

spiral out said:


> Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Vali? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade?


 

 I too am interested in this!


----------



## fenderf4i

spiral out said:


> Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Vali? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade?







rickb said:


> I too am interested in this!




http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/4725#post_10329891

I found that they sounded identical. Maybe the headphones are a bottleneck, not sure.


----------



## Spiral Out

fenderf4i said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/4725#post_10329891
> 
> I found that they sounded identical. Maybe the headphones are a bottleneck, not sure.


 
 The Asgard 2 is supposed to be a warm SS amp so I'm not really surprised that they sound the same. I kind of figured they would be close sound quality wise.


----------



## RickB

fenderf4i said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/4725#post_10329891
> 
> I found that they sounded identical. Maybe the headphones are a bottleneck, not sure.


 

 Hmmm... so it seems like you should get the Asgard 2 over the Vali only if you are interested in the pre-amp function, or want the longevity of all solid state.
  
 Edit: I guess the Asgard will work with more phones than the Vali due to the lower noise floor, too.


----------



## fenderf4i

The noise floor can be an issue depending on headphones used. Same with the microphonic tube ringing.


----------



## RickB

fenderf4i said:


> The noise floor can be an issue depending on headphones used. Same with the microphonic tube ringing.


 

 Yeah, none of my phones/IEMs work with my Vali other than the HD600. Everything else, there's white noise and/or you can hear ringing.


----------



## metaldood

So Asgard2 is better than Magni and Vali?


----------



## roguegeek

metaldood said:


> So Asgard2 is better than Magni and Vali?



Depends on the cans and what kind of signature you're looking for. What are you looking to pair them with?


----------



## metaldood

roguegeek said:


> metaldood said:
> 
> 
> > So Asgard2 is better than Magni and Vali?
> ...




He400, MD 3.2, DT990 Premium 250


----------



## roguegeek

metaldood said:


> He400, MD 3.2, DT990 Premium 250



Jesus god, no. The HE-400, with its horribly wild and flawed treble, is not going to do well with the A2, a fairly bright amp. It was ok with the Lyr, but nothing really helps that treble.


----------



## Kon Peki

HE-400 sounds fantastic with Magni.  I'll have my Asgard 2 soon and let you know if it sounds even better with that, but the only reason I am getting Asgard 2 is that it will output to my desktop powered speakers (Audioengine A5+) as well as my headphones.


----------



## joebobbilly

Did anyone here own a Mojo stack and HD650 ever move to an LCD2? If so, what are your thoughts?


----------



## roguegeek

kon peki said:


> HE-400 sounds fantastic with Magni.  I'll have my Asgard 2 soon and let you know if it sounds even better with that, but the only reason I am getting Asgard 2 is that it will output to my desktop powered speakers (Audioengine A5+) as well as my headphones.


 
 I didn't think they sounded fantastic at all. The Magni is a good amp, but very bright. Paired with the very strident HE-400, that's just a bad combination. I will say the A2 is just a _slight bit_ nicer than the Magni with the HE-400, but still not very good and doesn't relieve the harshness of those flawed highs. If you have an HE-400, you're going to want an amp that's going to help tone down the edge and remove some of that treble distortion. Vali, Valhalla, or Lyr possibly? I wish I was able to try those amps with my HE-400 when I still owned it.


----------



## Kon Peki

Clearly we differ in our impression. If the fellow asking for advice is like you in that he considers the highs from his HE-400 to be "deeply flawed", then he may want to follow your amp advice, or better yet, sell off his headphones. If like me and many others he thinks the HE-400 sound wonderful, then he'll probably enjoy them with the Magni or Asgard 2.


----------



## kothganesh

kon peki said:


> Clearly we differ in our impression. If the fellow asking for advice is like you in that he considers the highs from his HE-400 to be "deeply flawed", then he may want to follow your amp advice, or better yet, sell off his headphones. If like me and many others he thinks the HE-400 sound wonderful, then he'll probably enjoy them with the Magni or Asgard 2.




FWIW, when I owned the 400, I found the best pairing to be with the Lyr.


----------



## madwolfa

Looks like some 6 $ eardrops almost completely solved my treble harshness/thin sound/hearing discomfort/fatigue issue.
 Seeing my doctor this Friday to check for ear infection/ swimmer's ear/ whatever it is.
  
 That just reminds me... how important our minds and our _bodies_ are in the whole music listening experience.


----------



## kothganesh

madwolfa said:


> Looks like some 6 $ eardrops almost completely solved my treble harshness/thin sound/hearing discomfort/fatigue issue.
> Seeing my doctor this Friday to check for ear infection/ swimmer's ear/ whatever it is.
> 
> That just reminds me... how important our minds and our _bodies_ are in the whole music listening experience.



Funny, had my ears cleaned yesterday evening. Suddenly my ears have become more sensitive and I have actually lowered the volume position on the dial. Spot on, mate.


----------



## UmustBKidn

madwolfa said:


> Looks like some 6 $ eardrops almost completely solved my treble harshness/thin sound/hearing discomfort/fatigue issue.
> Seeing my doctor this Friday to check for ear infection/ swimmer's ear/ whatever it is.
> 
> That just reminds me... how important our minds and our _bodies_ are in the whole music listening experience.


 
  


kothganesh said:


> Funny, had my ears cleaned yesterday evening. Suddenly my ears have become more sensitive and I have actually lowered the volume position on the dial. Spot on, mate.


 
  
 The first time my ears clogged up with wax was when I was a kid, and I thought I had gone deaf. The doctor did a flush of my ears and good lord... lol. Some folks experience excessive ear wax, and some do not. I have no idea why. Some of us are just lucky I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
Debrox and Murine both make inexpensive do it yourself cleaning kits. The older I get, the more often I need to use that stuff. But I was relieved to discover this was something I could fix - and not permanent hearing damage.


----------



## Tuco1965

With all this ear talk, I just can't get the picture of Shrek pulling wax out of his ear, out of my mind.


----------



## bostown

metaldood said:


> So Asgard2 is better than Magni and Vali?


 
 More flexible by way of what headphones you can drive.  The pre-amp function is also handy if you have an amp that you like to use with passive monitors.  I've been experimenting by using a Lyr as a pre-amp with a Pair of Parasound Z-amps Bridged to mono,  to drive a set of Sonus Faber Concertino's with good results.   It's not a replacement for buying a good pre, but it's a nice option to allow it to be used in that capacity if needed or.. just for craps and giggles.


----------



## Tuco1965

bostown said:


> More flexible by way of what headphones you can drive.  The pre-amp function is also handy if you have an amp that you like to use with passive monitors.  I've been experimenting by using a Lyr as a pre-amp with a Pair of Parasound Z-amps Bridged to mono,  to drive a set of Sonus Faber Concertino's with good results.   It's not a replacement for buying a good pre, but it's a nice option to allow it to be used in that capacity if needed or.. just for *Schiits* and giggles.


----------



## Neo-ST

Someone from here posted this ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
http://i.imgur.com/q2Xvyaz.jpg


----------



## Saraguie

neo-st said:


> Someone from here posted this ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 LOL, when I got my Mojo I did not look at the paper. I still have the box and docs that came with it, I will have to check. Everyone's a comedian


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

So maybe someone can help me…
  
 I’ve had my Lyr for about 4 months now and I’ve already had to send it in for a repair because the right channel had a lot of noise. They said they replaced the gain resistors. Ever since I’ve gotten it back I’ve noticed a very high pitch ringing on the same channel. I did hear this ringing when I first got the amp. It’s sporadic and quite irritating. Swapping the position of the tubes doesn’t change the channel that the ringing is on. I contacted Schiit and they assured me that the amp was fine because it was just tested by them. I haven’t been able to try a different set of tubes (I don’t own any), but moving their position doesn’t change the problem. Im not sure what to do.
  
 Thanks for your help.


----------



## UmustBKidn

chrismclaughlin said:


> So maybe someone can help me…
> 
> I’ve had my Lyr for about 4 months now and I’ve already had to send it in for a repair because the right channel had a lot of noise. They said they replaced the gain resistors. Ever since I’ve gotten it back I’ve noticed a very high pitch ringing on the same channel. I did hear this ringing when I first got the amp. It’s sporadic and quite irritating. Swapping the position of the tubes doesn’t change the channel that the ringing is on. I contacted Schiit and they assured me that the amp was fine because it was just tested by them. I haven’t been able to try a different set of tubes (I don’t own any), but moving their position doesn’t change the problem. Im not sure what to do.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


 
  
 If it's intermittent, they might not have heard it. Problems that are intermittent or hard to repeat, are the hardest to fix.
  
 You swapped the tubes once, so I would stop worrying about them.
  
 On the off-chance that it's something else in your setup, have you tried changing anything else? Such as, the position where the amp is located? Other components near it? Trying a different power outlet? Different headphones? Different cables? Basically, try to rule out all external influences. It will give you more ammunition.
  
 True story: many years ago I worked at a place that repaired car stereo's. The guy who sat next to me, would hook up each unit for repair, and give it a listen. If it worked, he would grab the dial shafts and beat it on a rubber mat! After several of these, my curiosity got the best of me, and I had to ask him. He was a Japanese gentleman, and in his broken English he replied: "Make sure broken."
  
 So, yeah. It helps if the device is really broken before sending it to the shop.


----------



## bostown

chrismclaughlin said:


> So maybe someone can help me…
> 
> I’ve had my Lyr for about 4 months now and I’ve already had to send it in for a repair because the right channel had a lot of noise. They said they replaced the gain resistors. Ever since I’ve gotten it back I’ve noticed a very high pitch ringing on the same channel. I did hear this ringing when I first got the amp. It’s sporadic and quite irritating. Swapping the position of the tubes doesn’t change the channel that the ringing is on. I contacted Schiit and they assured me that the amp was fine because it was just tested by them. I haven’t been able to try a different set of tubes (I don’t own any), but moving their position doesn’t change the problem. Im not sure what to do.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


 
  
 Starting point just to strike them off the list:
  
 Different AC Outlet/Circuit in the house
  
 Different set of headphones  
  
 Move the source or other devices away from the amp
  
 Second set of ears -  don't tell the person the problem you're experiencing, see if they call it out after listening on their own.
  
 Another set/type of tubes  
  
 Those are the basic things you can do ( if you haven't already done them)


----------



## noobandroid

my new cable

new cable for q701 by plussound. great job. exo series with viablue T6s 1/4", 28awg / 10 strands copper cable and red heatshrink


----------



## fenderf4i

How is the Viablue T6S plug? I might put one on an upcoming build.


----------



## noobandroid

fenderf4i said:


> How is the Viablue T6S plug? I might put one on an upcoming build.


 
 i cant say yet on how the cable build redefines the sound, but the viable is quite big and fits sturdily on the amp, that pic btw was supposed to go to Q701 thread, but instead mistakenly put it in here haha, oh well~
  
 in front of the Q701, the amp looks illusionally tiny


----------



## ChrisMcLaughlin

umustbkidn said:


> If it's intermittent, they might not have heard it. Problems that are intermittent or hard to repeat, are the hardest to fix.
> 
> You swapped the tubes once, so I would stop worrying about them.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah I've tried different headphones, cables, outlets, sources, and locations. Not sure what else to try. Thanks


----------



## timpicks

Not to take away from Chris's valuable concerns about his (potentially) busted Lyr, but I have something to share:

 Tonight I plugged in my first non-stock tubes in my Uberfrost/Lyr/HiFiMan HE-500 combo, and the difference is astounding!
  
 I bought a pair of Matsu****a tubes off a really great guy on Head-Fi (thank you mwillits!), and I will never put the stock tubes back in my Lyr.  Nothing against the stock tubes, but they're overly bright with a slightly-weak low end.  These Matsu tubes instantly brought the Lyr back in line.  The treble went from ear-cracking (which was kinda fun, but also hurt at loud volumes) to a more realistic sound, while also bringing the bass up to a normal level when compared to the mids and highs.  I'm finally getting the right balance between highs and lows that I was looking for in an amp.  The sound is accurate, warm, and the tubes simply get out of the way.  EVERYTHING is punchy and super fast.  Wow!

 I listen to all kinds of music, but when you throw some good Industrial music at it (Front Line Assembly, Nine Inch Nails) you'll realize what the Lyr is capable of.  And this is without any significant burn-in - these tubes sound amazing right now, and I frankly don't want them to change!
  
 If you're thinking of tube rolling the Lyr, I highly recommend it!  But don't ask me to part with my Matsu's - they're total keepers! 

 Happy Rolling!


----------



## timpicks

timpicks said:


> Not to take away from Chris's valuable concerns about his (potentially) busted Lyr, but I have something to share:
> 
> Tonight I plugged in my first non-stock tubes in my Uberfrost/Lyr/HiFiMan HE-500 combo, and the difference is astounding!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha... that should read Matsush*ta.  I guess the Head-Fi bot doesn't like four-letter words in their tube manufacturers


----------



## UmustBKidn

timpicks said:


> Haha... that should read Matsush*ta.  I guess the Head-Fi bot doesn't like four-letter words in their tube manufacturers


 
  
 Well, if you had simply typed MatsuSchiita, it woulda worked just fine


----------



## kothganesh

umustbkidn said:


> Well, if you had simply typed MatsuSchiita, it woulda worked just fine


 
 We now have a new name for an old company...only on Head Fi


----------



## Tuco1965

Just ordered more Schiit.  I have a Magni and Modi stack coming.  They'll be my roving stack.


----------



## Snips

tuco1965 said:


> Just ordered more Schiit.  I have a Magni and Modi stack coming.  They'll be my roving stack.


 
  
 Collect the entire lineup


----------



## Tuco1965

snips said:


> Collect the entire lineup


 
 Slowly but surely...


----------



## jaywillin

snips said:


> Collect the entire lineup


 

 i only need the vahalla, and gungnir to complete the set
 although i didn't have it all at the same time !


----------



## Tuco1965

I could see getting a Vali next but not for a while.


----------



## Netrum

If i am to upgrade my stack it would be a bifrost.
But to be honest, i see no need to upgrade at this point in time.
I have never been so satisfied with a product before


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm looking forward to the little stack for use around the house.  Nice small foot print.  
  
 Quick order response as usual from Schiit.  Order Shipped!


----------



## Ultramus

Haven't posted in this thread yet but figured I would mention how amazing the mjolnir is with he-500s, I'm feeding it balanced from an Audio-Gd DAC as I'm a fan of their stuff, and the mjolnir works wonders on my low peak high dynamic range classical. It makes the he-500s play music effortlessly, and if I turn the cups out I have a nice set of very near field monitors


----------



## UmustBKidn

tuco1965 said:


> Just ordered more Schiit.  I have a Magni and Modi stack coming.  They'll be my roving stack.


 
  
 Schiit Movement
 Mobile Schiit
 Schiit on Wheels
 Ambulatory Schiit
 Wheely Good Schiit
 ...


----------



## CJs06

umustbkidn said:


> Schiit Movement
> Mobile Schiit
> Schiit on Wheels
> Ambulatory Schiit
> ...


 
 I couldn't keep a straight face lol


----------



## Koolpep

Just received the Vali in tandem with my replacement Valhalla tubes (Valhalla is back to sounds beautiful).
  
 The Vali sounds amazing for such an affordable device. Also, no ringing at all unless handled really badly.
  
 Love this Schiit.


----------



## Tuco1965

umustbkidn said:


> Schiit Movement
> Mobile Schiit
> Schiit on Wheels
> Ambulatory Schiit
> ...


 
 LMAO


----------



## fenderf4i

Is the Lyr supposed to play out of the preamp outputs while headphones are plugged in? Mine is, and that is not how my Asgard behaves.


----------



## jaywillin

fenderf4i said:


> Is the Lyr supposed to play out of the preamp outputs while headphones are plugged in? Mine is, and that is not how my Asgard behaves.


 

 normal


----------



## Noobles

I got my Modi/Valhalla combo in yesterday and it's an incredible difference from the old Hifiman EF2A that I was using. I'm all about some vocals and guitars, and the Valhalla really brought them to life on my HD600's. I was expecting a difference, but I didn't think it would be that noticeable right off the bat. I'm really impressed, so I'm really happy to be part of the Schiit fanclub now!


----------



## Tuco1965

Welcome SchiitHead!


----------



## PyramidOfSound

Just finished painting my Vali/Modi stack! They look unbelievable in the stock ink, but I like to change it up. Expect some photos soon!


----------



## Snips

noobles said:


> I got my Modi/Valhalla combo in yesterday and it's an incredible difference from the old Hifiman EF2A that I was using. I'm all about some vocals and guitars, and the Valhalla really brought them to life on my HD600's. I was expecting a difference, but I didn't think it would be that noticeable right off the bat. I'm really impressed, so I'm really happy to be part of the Schiit fanclub now!


 
  
 Welcome to the SchiitClub!


----------



## Tuco1965

Well my baby Schiits arrived!  Damn they're small.  These will be easy to tote around.  On another note I see my Bugle Boys are out for delivery, so those will be rolled into my Lyr asap too.


----------



## Ultramus

Hey all, just last night I noticed some background noise and static on my Mjolnir when previously it was dead silent from end to end, I think it may have been the fact I had it running for a while and maybe it got too hot? I turned it off but won't be able to check till I next get home. Has anyone else experienced this? I turned off DAC, checked cables, et cetera. It is a first, hoping I didn't hurt the amp but that seems unlilely


----------



## hodgjy

ultramus said:


> Hey all, just last night I noticed some background noise and static on my Mjolnir when previously it was dead silent from end to end, I think it may have been the fact I had it running for a while and maybe it got too hot? I turned it off but won't be able to check till I next get home. Has anyone else experienced this? I turned off DAC, checked cables, et cetera. It is a first, hoping I didn't hurt the amp but that seems unlilely


 
  
 Static can come from the volume pot.  Turn it around and see if the static intensifies.  If so, a simple clean may be the trick.  Otherwise, be sure to use the 5-year warranty Schiit gave you.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Is there any chance of Schiit making a version of the Modi with a sabre chip? I'd like to see their take on the HiFiMeDIY U2


----------



## Maxvla

Considering Mike's stance on delta sigma, I'm gonna say no.


----------



## hodgjy

blackenedplague said:


> Is there any chance of Schiit making a version of the Modi with a sabre chip? I'd like to see their take on the HiFiMeDIY U2


 
  
 The Sabre chip isn't the end-all of DACs.  I'm more concerned with the output stage, personally.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Just compared the two. Not entirely sure what to make of it but I'm guessing the lower the output voltage the better? Which goes to the Mode at a full mega volt less than the U2


----------



## hodgjy

blackenedplague said:


> Just compared the two. Not entirely sure what to make of it *but I'm guessing the lower the output voltage the better?* Which goes to the Mode at a full mega volt less than the U2


 
  
 Not really.  What's more important is the interplay between THD and output voltage. Manufacturers like to massage these numbers to make their THD look better.


----------



## HPiper

Just got my new Lyr a couple days ago. Superb amp and totally quiet even with my Grado's. Schiit is, as every body says, an excellent company to deal with and make the best amps for the money I have ever seen. It is like I have all new headphones.


----------



## Tuco1965

Enjoy your Lyr.  If you feel ever feel like rolling tubes down the road, there's a long thread with different recommendations.


----------



## kothganesh

Lyr owners, over the last two months, I've noticed a tendency of the front tube to start leaning to the right side (if you view it from the front). Thus causes an intermittent crackle to the sound coming from the Hp. I straighten it out and presto, no problem.Any suggestions for a permanent fix? Thanks.


----------



## Tuco1965

I can't say that I have had that happen with mine so I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## CJs06

kothganesh said:


> Lyr owners, over the last two months, I've noticed a tendency of the front tube to start leaning to the right side (if you view it from the front). Thus causes an intermittent crackle to the sound coming from the Hp. I straighten it out and presto, no problem.Any suggestions for a permanent fix? Thanks.



I use socket savers and I haven't had that issue.


----------



## Tuco1965

I wonder if it's a tube problem?


----------



## CJs06

tuco1965 said:


> I wonder if it's a tube problem?


The only time I ever heard crackling with my Lyr is when I used a pair of Toshiba 6DJ8s. Definitely not good tubes to use for audio btw, very microphonic and one of the tubes had lots of crackling and static.


----------



## kothganesh

tuco1965 said:


> I wonder if it's a tube problem?



I thought about it and changed tubes three months ago. All was fine until two months ago. Did not think about socket savers though. Gotta give them a shot.


----------



## kothganesh

cjs06 said:


> I use socket savers and I haven't had that issue.



Thanks. Never considered them. Will do now.


----------



## Tuco1965

All my tubes have been quiet so far.


----------



## joebobbilly

Hey everyone... is it just me? or did we just get some new Schiit?
  
 http://schiit.com/products/sys-passive-preamp


----------



## Tuco1965

Get the F@#$ out!


----------



## kothganesh

Time to buy a pre-amp


----------



## CJs06

OH SCHIIT!!1!11!! 
  
 Well isn't that a nice little featured addition to match our stack of schiit.


----------



## fenderf4i

This is fantastic!! Ordered!


----------



## Snips

joebobbilly said:


> Hey everyone... is it just me? or did we just get some new Schiit?
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/sys-passive-preamp


 
  
 HA I almost spit out my drink when I saw "schtuff"


----------



## CJs06

snips said:


> HA I almost spit out my drink when I saw "schtuff"



LOL, I like that its explained how to use it as a switch and volume knob... separately hahaha


----------



## fenderf4i

Since it's passive, I'm wondering if it's possible to use it in reverse, so 1 in and 2 out. I have a feeling it might be.


----------



## AK7579

I have an email in to Shiit asking that very same question. I'll post an answer as soon as I have one.


----------



## fenderf4i

The reply I received is "Nope, unfortunately not. There's only one set of input jacks."
  
 Other passive switching boxes I've used can be used either way, just like any cable. Maybe the volume pot has something to do with it? We'll have to try it once we receive them.


----------



## AK7579

This is the reply I got:
  
"I guess you could use it backwards with the volume pot all the way up as just a switch. But why not just use RCA Y-cables?"
  
Seems like there are different opinions on the matter.


----------



## john57

I think what Schiit is saying that you can not drive two outputs at once. Most of the RCA switch boxes that I have seen with two outs means that it will drive two outputs at the same time.


----------



## fenderf4i

It's not "driving" anything, it's passive. Will have to just wait and try it.


----------



## vincent215

I want to upgrade my system from O2/ODAC to Schiit stuffs (ubber Biofrost & Lyr). However, I dont see lot of people recomend it with flagship headphones (HD800 & Audeze phones) Same does for the Mjolnir and Gungnir 
 Do you guy recommend me this combo to pair with LCD 2 and Alpha Dog? I am searching for a mid-fi all around amp ($400-$900 range) that will do the job decently with many headphones (I dont count HE-6 or K1000). My target is the Headamp GS-X, I have heard nothing but good about them.


----------



## StanD

john57 said:


> I think what Schiit is saying that you can not drive two outputs at once. Most of the RCA switch boxes that I have seen with two outs means that it will drive two outputs at the same time.


 
 Nodody drives an ouput, an output drives an input.
 Read the product page, the idea is to select which of two sources connects to (drives)  a singe device, being either your powered speakers or headphone amp. One not both. The volume control is for convenience. If, for example, your powered speakers have an input selector and volume control within easy reach, this device is not necessary.


----------



## Raptor34

joebobbilly said:


> Hey everyone... is it just me? or did we just get some new Schiit?
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/sys-passive-preamp


 

 Yuppers, ordered mine last night.   No more cable switching.   YAH


----------



## Raptor34

fenderf4i said:


> Since it's passive, I'm wondering if it's possible to use it in reverse, so 1 in and 2 out. I have a feeling it might be.


 

 Just read the "FAQ" page people   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    It's a 2 in one out device.


----------



## fenderf4i

raptor34 said:


> Just read the "FAQ" page people
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Wow good one there, ace. It doesn't change the fact that some of us are wondering if it can be used in the opposite direction, since it's a passive device. The Fiio HS-2 switcher can be, so I think this one can be as well.
  
 The reason we emailed, was because we read the FAQ, and our question was not answered in it.
  
 Maybe I want to split the output of my DAC to a headphone amp that doesn't have preouts, and also to active speakers where the volume control would be nice to have.
  
 Or, if I have one output on my DAC, and three devices to output the signal to, if I were to use a Y-splitter at the DAC, adding the switch box from the y-split to two other devices would not be like splitting the signal another time, since it's actually switching it.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Wow good one there, ace. It doesn't change the fact that some of us are wondering if it can be used in the opposite direction, since it's a passive device. The Fiio HS-2 switcher can be, so I think this one can be as well.
> 
> The reason we emailed, was because we read the FAQ, and our question was not answered in it.
> 
> ...


 
 Not a good idea, because of the attenuator.


----------



## Raptor34

fenderf4i said:


> Wow good one there, ace. It doesn't change the fact that some of us are wondering if it can be used in the opposite direction, since it's a passive device. The Fiio HS-2 switcher can be, so I think this one can be as well.
> 
> The reason we emailed, was because we read the FAQ, and our question was not answered in it.
> 
> ...


 

 Certainly hope your questions have been answered,  ace.


----------



## fenderf4i

raptor34 said:


> Certainly hope your questions have been answered,  ace.




Actually, we still don't know for sure. Pay attention.


----------



## huberd

The tubes are usually very tight in the socket. Not sure how they could move around. You may want to test with different tubes.


----------



## huberd

Also try to swap the inputs to see if it is something up stream or possibly a cable. .


----------



## Raptor34

fenderf4i said:


> Actually, we still don't know for sure. Pay attention.


 

 zzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Yep, SYS is a new little two-input passive preamp. We never tried it backwards, which is why Nick is very confused.
  
 Speculation: it'll probably work as a switch with the volume turned all the way up. We don't know how the volume control will work, though.


----------



## AK7579

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, SYS is a new little two-input passive preamp. We never tried it backwards, which is why Nick is very confused.
> 
> Speculation: it'll probably work as a switch with the volume turned all the way up. We don't know how the volume control will work, though.


 
 Can you test it backwards and report? My finger is itching to click on the order button!


----------



## fenderf4i

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, SYS is a new little two-input passive preamp. We never tried it backwards, which is why Nick is very confused.
> 
> Speculation: it'll probably work as a switch with the volume turned all the way up. We don't know how the volume control will work, though.


 
  
  
 That makes sense! I know a lot of us have, say, 3 or 4 amps that we would like to output our DAC to at once without swapping wires. I'm not sure daisy chaining y-splitters is a great idea since it splits the signal each time, whereas a switch like the SYS is basically just a passthrough, so I wouldn't think that would be an issue.


----------



## StanD

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, SYS is a new little two-input passive preamp. We never tried it backwards, which is why Nick is very confused.
> 
> Speculation: it'll probably work as a switch with the volume turned all the way up. We don't know how the volume control will work, though.


 
 Used backwards, chances are that with the volume down all the way one might be close to applying a short to ground on what ever is plugged into the unswiitched jacks. This is if a conventional attenuator circuit is employed.. As you turn up the volume control the load on this input goes up to the max resistance of the volume pot in parrallel with whatever's impedance is switched into play. It will certainly not act like a proper volume control. I doubt that you guys ever intended for anyone to get their Schiit backwards,.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> I doubt that you guys ever intended for anyone to get their Schiit backwards,.


 
 I loled


----------



## StanD

jason stoddard said:


> Yep, SYS is a new little two-input passive preamp. We never tried it backwards, which is why Nick is very confused.
> 
> Speculation: it'll probably work as a switch with the volume turned all the way up. We don't know how the volume control will work, though.


 
  
  


stand said:


> Used backwards, chances are that with the volume down all the way one might be close to applying a short to ground on what ever is plugged into the unswiitched jacks. This is if a conventional attenuator circuit is employed.. As you turn up the volume control the load on this input goes up to the max resistance of the volume pot in parrallel with whatever's impedance is switched into play. It will certainly not act like a proper volume control. I doubt that you guys ever intended for anyone to get their Schiit backwards,.


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> I loled


 
 Hey man, this is no laughing matter, ths is some serious Schiit.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Hey man, this is no laughing matter, ths is some serious Schiit. :wink_face:



My appologies, I gotta get my Schiit together...


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Hey man, this is no laughing matter, ths is some serious Schiit.


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> My appologies, I gotta get my Schiit together...


 
 Wipe that Schiit eat'in grin off yer face.


----------



## Snips

vincent215 said:


> I want to upgrade my system from O2/ODAC to Schiit stuffs (ubber Biofrost & Lyr). However, I dont see lot of people recomend it with flagship headphones (HD800 & Audeze phones) Same does for the Mjolnir and Gungnir
> Do you guy recommend me this combo to pair with LCD 2 and Alpha Dog? I am searching for a mid-fi all around amp ($400-$900 range) that will do the job decently with many headphones (I dont count HE-6 or K1000). My target is the Headamp GS-X, I have heard nothing but good about them.


 
  
 I don't see why you wouldn't use the Bifrost and Lyr for the flagships. They are pretty hard to beat at that price. Besides, the Lyr was designed for orthos.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Wipe that Schiit eat'in grin off yer face. :veryevil:



What can I say... I'm full of Schiit


----------



## cel4145

stand said:


> Used backwards, chances are that with the volume down all the way one might be close to applying a short to ground on what ever is plugged into the unswiitched jacks. This is if a conventional attenuator circuit is employed.. As you turn up the volume control the load on this input goes up to the max resistance of the volume pot in parrallel with whatever's impedance is switched into play. It will certainly not act like a proper volume control. I doubt that you guys ever intended for anyone to get their Schiit backwards,.




Seems like there might be a market for a 2nd model--one wired in reverse for switching between two outputs.


----------



## john57

cel4145 said:


> Seems like there might be a market for a 2nd model--one wired in reverse for switching between two outputs.


 
 Actually with a standard RCA switch box without a volume control can work both ways most of the time. I use a RCA switch box to redirect my Loki to either my two monitors or the AV receiver.


----------



## StanD

cel4145 said:


> Seems like there might be a market for a 2nd model--one wired in reverse for switching between two outputs.


 
 Words are tricky, The current product is intended for switching between two outputs (sources) to one input (amp).
 You probably meant to switch one output to two different inputs (distribution). Unless you need an attenuator or a means of muting one path, you could use Y cables. If this was to have two attenuators, that would be nice.
 Being minimalist, Schiit probably decided that if things were at a proper line level, multiple attenuators to balance levels would be unnecessary. Unfortunatley Schiit doesn't always work out so to be so clean.
 OK, let's have a product meeting, where's Jason?


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I doubt that you guys ever intended for anyone to get their Schiit backwards,.


 
  
 Sorry.. I couldn't resist.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Sorry.. I couldn't resist.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Speaking of which, how's the antibiotics working out for you? Two weeks ago I spent four days on an IV, amongst the bags were two different antibiotics. I am probably still impervious to Anthrax.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Speaking of which, how's the antibiotics working out for you? Two weeks ago I spent four days on an IV, amongst the bags were two different antibiotics. I am probably still impervious to Anthrax.


 
  
 There's a progress, but I don't feel I'm 100% "there" yet. Still can't get the level of comfort/non-fatiguing experience from the music listening I used to years ago.
 That's why I'm going to see an audiologist to check my hearing too.


----------



## Ultramus

vincent215 said:


> I want to upgrade my system from O2/ODAC to Schiit stuffs (ubber Biofrost & Lyr). However, I dont see lot of people recomend it with flagship headphones (HD800 & Audeze phones) Same does for the Mjolnir and Gungnir
> Do you guy recommend me this combo to pair with LCD 2 and Alpha Dog? I am searching for a mid-fi all around amp ($400-$900 range) that will do the job decently with many headphones (I dont count HE-6 or K1000). My target is the Headamp GS-X, I have heard nothing but good about them.




Mjolnir+audeze= very nice

Mjolnir +hd800= not as nice

Gungnir is well regarded no matter what though, as far as I've read, I do t personally have one


----------



## cel4145

stand said:


> Words are tricky, The current product is intended for switching between two outputs (sources) to one input (amp).
> You probably meant to switch one output to two different inputs (distribution). Unless you need an attenuator or a means of muting one path, you could use Y cables. If this was to have two attenuators, that would be nice.
> Being minimalist, Schiit probably decided that if things were at a proper line level, multiple attenuators to balance levels would be unnecessary. Unfortunatley Schiit doesn't always work out so to be so clean.
> OK, let's have a product meeting, where's Jason?




Actually, I was using the terminology on the SYS Preamp. Right now it has two input plugs and one output. But you are right. It is confusing depending on how you talk about it


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I would love it if Schiit made a phono pre with MM/MC compatibility. I would pay upwords of $250-$300 for that


----------



## Byronb

blackenedplague said:


> I would love it if Schiit made a phono pre with MM/MC compatibility. I would pay upwords of $250-$300 for that


 
 Yes that would be an awesome product to add to the lineup.


----------



## vincent215

ultramus said:


> Mjolnir+audeze= very nice
> 
> Mjolnir +hd800= not as nice
> 
> Gungnir is well regarded no matter what though, as far as I've read, I do t personally have one


 
 What about Lyr and HD800?


----------



## Ultramus

vincent215 said:


> What about Lyr and HD800?


 
 I haven't heard the Lyr in any capacity so I really couldn't tell you, however what I can say is people generally enjoy tube amps with HD800? Maybe someone with a Lyr will chime in.


----------



## olor1n

vincent215 said:


> ultramus said:
> 
> 
> > Mjolnir+audeze= very nice
> ...


 
  
 If you already own the Lyr then it will serve as a decent stop-gap amp for the HD800 until you upgrade. Be prepared to tube roll though.
  
 If you don't have the Lyr then the more affordable Vali is the better option. It's a more refined and transparent amp for the HD800. Bonus that it's cheaper, with no added tube rolling expense - meaning more money towards better upstream gear, or money saved for that uber amp down the track.
  
 As for the post you're replying to - yes, the Gungnir/MJ stack is indeed great for the Audez'e, but the MJ is no slouch for the HD800 either. In that rig you'll just need to look beyond the Gungnir for the source component. It is not a good match for the HD800 and I'm certainly not the only person to express this. The Gungnir is not "well regarded no matter what". It boils down to synergy and preference, and the Gungnir/HD800 mix is an acquired taste IME.


----------



## joebobbilly

olor1n said:


> If you already own the Lyr then it will serve as a decent stop-gap amp for the HD800 until you upgrade. Be prepared to tube roll though.
> 
> If you don't have the Lyr then the more affordable Vali is the better option. It's a more refined and transparent amp for the HD800. Bonus that it's cheaper, with no added tube rolling expense - meaning more money towards better upstream gear, or money saved for that uber amp down the track.
> 
> As for the post you're replying to - yes, the Gungnir/MJ stack is indeed great for the Audez'e, but the MJ is no slouch for the HD800 either. In that rig you'll just need to look beyond the Gungnir for the source component. It is not a good match for the HD800 and I'm certainly not the only person to express this. The Gungnir is not "well regarded no matter what". It boils down to synergy and preference, and the Gungnir/HD800 mix is an acquired taste IME.


 

 Yea, searching round the forum and seeing this kind of response was what stopped me from goin to the HD800... cause I really didn't want to spend on such a premium can only to have to change up my Mojo/Gungnir stack (my wallet thanks me).
  
 Unfortunately (or fortunately? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), in the process of that research I read ravings bout my rig with LCDs... so now... here I am... (wallet shrugs in defeat, but relieved to know it coulda been worse)


----------



## Traum

vincent215 said:


> What about Lyr and HD800?



I am currently using a pair of HD800 with the Lyr (and Bifrost), and I will say that with the stock Lyr tubes (GE 6BZ7), the treble is a little overemphasized, and the mid and bass are a little weak. Everything else with this combo is great.

With a set of Voskhod 6N23P, however, all I can say is holy @#$*)$#@($!!!  The Voskhods really bring out the mids and bass from the music, and it also tames the treble overemphasis without losing any detail. I am really enjoying this combo (Bifrost + Lyr + Voskhod 6N23P + HD800) right now. It is like having an eargasm every time I listen to it.


----------



## elvergun

traum said:


> I am currently using a pair of HD800 with the Lyr (and Bifrost), and I will say that with the stock Lyr tubes (GE 6BZ7), the treble is a little overemphasized, and the mid and bass are a little weak. Everything else with this combo is great.
> 
> With a set of Voskhod 6N23P, however, all I can say is holy @#$*)$#@($!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 This pretty much sums up my experience.  The Voskhod 6N23Ps are indeed @#$*)$#@($!!!


----------



## vincent215

traum said:


> I am currently using a pair of HD800 with the Lyr (and Bifrost), and I will say that with the stock Lyr tubes (GE 6BZ7), the treble is a little overemphasized, and the mid and bass are a little weak. Everything else with this combo is great.
> 
> With a set of Voskhod 6N23P, however, all I can say is holy @#$*)$#@($!!!
> 
> ...


 
 It's good to hear that somebody found the synergy between Lyr & HD800.  I will order the Lyr asap.
 If I remember correctly, there's an option for Ly upgrade tube, and it's not on their website atm. What's up with it, and is the upgrade tube same with Voskhod 6N23P?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## olor1n

traum said:


> vincent215 said:
> 
> 
> > What about Lyr and HD800?
> ...


 
  
 Curious if you've heard the HD800 with anything other than the Lyr. The Lyr is a wonderful amp for the LCD-2 in the way it grips that headphone and conveys an engaging and full bodied presentation. Unfortunately detail retrieval isn't a strength and the HD800 is stifled irrespective of tube choice. For me the best Lyr tubes for resolution were the fabled Lorenz Stuttgarts. I just found them less dynamic than other tubes I had on hand at the time. 60's Amperex Bugle Boys struck the best balance. I had some cryo-treated 6N23P's that were ok. Can't recall what they were exactly though.


----------



## Amictus

vincent215 said:


> What about Lyr and HD800?



I was running the HD800s with a Lyr and an Audiolab M-DAC and upgraded to the Gungnir despite some warnings from wise people about the alleged no-go between the HD800s and the Gungnir, particularly when paired with the Mjolnir. Well, the Gungnir does wonders for the Lyr, but the result with the HD800, howsoever rolled the Lyr may be, is wondrously clear but a little sterile. My first amp, however, a Lehmann clone from China, is completely transformed by the Gungnir, so I am trying to arrange to audition Herr Lehmann's finest somewhere.

I am not threadbending here! There is some justification to the caution of the wise concerning the Gungnir/HD800 synergy, but the Gungnir is a fantastic product and the Gungnir/Lyr is great for my other headphones, particularly the HD650s. Let's face it, all headphones are tricky to an extent, and we will all end up with more than one amp as we continue to tweak our way to sonic...er... Valhalla.


----------



## olor1n

amictus said:


> vincent215 said:
> 
> 
> > What about Lyr and HD800?
> ...


 
  
 That's because the Lyr reigns in the Gungnir's obnoxious and shouty quality. Some people really dig that energy but for me the Gungnir lacked deftness when called for. The Gungnir is described as dynamic when it's actually compressed in that sense. It's just tilted towards "loud" and people confuse that as dynamics. This zest is what makes it a great component for the LCD-2 though. For the HD800 it's unbridled fatigue. The Gungnir is like the hyper active kid bordering on a sugar over-dose.


----------



## Saraguie

olor1n said:


> That's because the Lyr reigns in the Gungnir's obnoxious and shouty quality. Some people really dig that energy but for me the Gungnir lacked deftness when called for. The Gungnir is described as dynamic when it's actually compressed in that sense. It's just tilted towards "loud" and people confuse that as dynamics. This zest is what makes it a great component for the LCD-2 though. For the HD800 it's unbridled fatigue. The Gungnir is like the hyper active kid bordering on a sugar over-dose.


 
 Of course most of us disagree with you.......so its really your opinion that the Mojo sounds they way it does to your ears. And yes it our opinion too.


----------



## olor1n

saraguie said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > That's because the Lyr reigns in the Gungnir's obnoxious and shouty quality. Some people really dig that energy but for me the Gungnir lacked deftness when called for. The Gungnir is described as dynamic when it's actually compressed in that sense. It's just tilted towards "loud" and people confuse that as dynamics. This zest is what makes it a great component for the LCD-2 though. For the HD800 it's unbridled fatigue. The Gungnir is like the hyper active kid bordering on a sugar over-dose.
> ...


 
  
 LOL. I'm talking about the *Gungnir* bud - and specifically about its application as an HD800 DAC.
  
 I actually rate the MJ as a fine amp for the HD800. I find it telling that people who dismiss the MJ as a good amp for the HD800 (particularly for the price) mention it in the same breath as the Gungnir. As if the two are inseparable. A lot of assumptions are made about the MJ IMO.
  
 If you did mean the Gungnir - well, I'm hardly a lone voice in expressing this opinion. Again, this is specifically for the HD800. I know of many experienced HD800 owners who've come to the same conclusion.


----------



## Maxvla

and olor1n is not alone in that opinion.


----------



## kothganesh

olor1n said:


> LOL. I'm talking about the *Gungnir* bud - and specifically about its application as an HD800 DAC.
> 
> I actually rate the MJ as a fine amp for the HD800. I find it telling that people who dismiss the MJ as a good amp for the HD800 (particularly for the price) mention it in the same breath as the Gungnir. As if the two are inseparable. A lot of assumptions are made about the MJ IMO.
> 
> If you did mean the Gungnir - well, I'm hardly a lone voice in expressing this opinion. Again, this is specifically for the HD800. I know of many experienced HD800 owners who've come to the same conclusion.


 
 What DAC did/do you find when paired with the Mojo does the HD800 ample justice ? I ask since I currently own all 3 - the Gungnir, the Mojo and the 800.  Thanks.


----------



## Saraguie

olor1n said:


> LOL. I'm talking about the *Gungnir* bud - and specifically about its application as an HD800 DAC.
> 
> I actually rate the MJ as a fine amp for the HD800. I find it telling that people who dismiss the MJ as a good amp for the HD800 (particularly for the price) mention it in the same breath as the Gungnir. As if the two are inseparable. A lot of assumptions are made about the MJ IMO.
> 
> If you did mean the Gungnir - well, I'm hardly a lone voice in expressing this opinion. Again, this is specifically for the HD800. I know of many experienced HD800 owners who've come to the same conclusion.


 
 My bad so sorry ......


----------



## olor1n

kothganesh said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. I'm talking about the *Gungnir* bud - and specifically about its application as an HD800 DAC.
> ...


 
  
 This exact chain -
  
 MBP with Audirvana+ (extreme priority) > HDMI > NAD M51 (firmware 1.39) > BJC Belden 1800F XLR > MJ (after sufficient warm up) > Q audio balanced cable > HD800 (not modded)
  
 The software and its settings play a key role in my system. As does the M51's firmware and the use of HDMI. The XLR cable type not so much. I only mention it as I've read M51 "impressions" from those who've quickly auditioned through RCA and were left questioning the hype. There's a significant difference between balanced and single ended through the M51 and its hardware implementation supports that.
  
 Also, I've owned and lived with all these components too. I know there are varying degrees to which people perceive differences - not to mention the different points at which individuals justify an expense. Quick auditions are unreliable IMO, particularly when you're at this level of performance. So yes, the Gungnir is a great component (especially for the price). But for me the M51 was better in every way. Smoother, more refined, detailed and natural. It kinda disappears, unlike the Gungnir which constantly demanded my attention.


----------



## Traum

olor1n said:


> Curious if you've heard the HD800 with anything other than the Lyr. The Lyr is a wonderful amp for the LCD-2 in the way it grips that headphone and conveys an engaging and full bodied presentation. Unfortunately detail retrieval isn't a strength and the HD800 is stifled irrespective of tube choice. For me the best Lyr tubes for resolution were the fabled Lorenz Stuttgarts. I just found them less dynamic than other tubes I had on hand at the time. 60's Amperex Bugle Boys struck the best balance. I had some cryo-treated 6N23P's that were ok. Can't recall what they were exactly though.



Other than the Lyr, I've auditioned the HD800 with a Burson Conductor, and a Modi+Magni combo as well, although it all happened at different times. I suppose they're all different beasts, so it is a little difficult to directly compare them. The Conductor was certainly *very* impressive, esp in terms of smoothness and detail retrieval. But it is hard for me to compare that experience with the Lyr + HD800 since there is quite a time gap between the two.


----------



## Amictus

kothganesh said:


> What DAC did/do you find when paired with the Mojo does the HD800 ample justice ? I ask since I currently own all 3 - the Gungnir, the Mojo and the 800.  Thanks.


 

 +1? If you see what I mean? I would like to see kothganesh's question answered, olor1n (and Maxvla). Also, are you unhappy with the Gung/Mojo/800 combination, kothganesh?


----------



## Xdaggersoul

Just got my Magni and Modi stack and my cans are DT 990 Pro, enjoying the sound of it!!


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> +1? If you see what I mean? I would like to see kothganesh's question answered, olor1n (and Maxvla). Also, are you unhappy with the Gung/Mojo/800 combination, kothganesh?



The 800 was a very recent purchase and I am waiting for the balanced cable I bought off a Head-fi'er two weeks ago. I will post impressions after I get the cable. In the meanwhile I am listening to the 800 with the Bifrost Uber and the EC Zana Deux.


----------



## timpicks

traum said:


> I am currently using a pair of HD800 with the Lyr (and Bifrost), and I will say that with the stock Lyr tubes (GE 6BZ7), the treble is a little overemphasized, and the mid and bass are a little weak. Everything else with this combo is great.
> 
> With a set of Voskhod 6N23P, however, all I can say is holy @#$*)$#@($!!!
> 
> ...


 
 Funny you mention the Voskhod's.  I'm running the Uberfrost/Lyr combo with the HiFiman HE-500's (not the HD800's), but I also found the stock Lyr tubes way too bright.  The treble was cracking uncomfortably in my ear, while the mids and lows didn't have enough "oomph".  Same as what you were experiencing.

 My first replacement tubes were a pair of Matsush*ta E8CC/6922's, and they sound WONDERFUL.  Balanced from top to bottom.

 However, the same day I ordered the Matsu's I also ordered a pair of Voshkod Rocket IV-1980's.  They took a while to get here, but after plugging them in, I find that they're somewhere in-between the stocks and the Matsu's.  The Voshkod's bring up the mids and lows, but retain the crack of the high's that I didn't like in the stock tubes.  For my money, the Matsu's have it over both the stock and Voshkod tubes.

 I'd still take the Voshkod's over the stock tubes, but the Matsu's win easily.  YMMV of course!


----------



## NZheadcase

timpicks said:


> Funny you mention the Voskhod's.  I'm running the Uberfrost/Lyr combo with the HiFiman HE-500's (not the HD800's), but I also found the stock Lyr tubes way too bright.  The treble was cracking uncomfortably in my ear, while the mids and lows didn't have enough "oomph".  Same as what you were experiencing.
> 
> 
> My first replacement tubes were a pair of Matsush*ta E8CC/6922's, and they sound WONDERFUL.  Balanced from top to bottom.
> ...




I should really start a bit of rolling on my Lyr. 

FWIW though, I still run the Lyr with the stock GE tubes and I love it with the HE500's. The original Bifrost serves me well via the optical input so I haven't felt the need to go gen 2 USB. I might go uber analog in the future though.

From what i've read, orange glbes, matsu****as and voshkods are very much recommended. Sigh....the perils of this hobby.


----------



## timpicks

nzheadcase said:


> I should really start a bit of rolling on my Lyr.
> 
> FWIW though, I still run the Lyr with the stock GE tubes and I love it with the HE500's. The original Bifrost serves me well via the optical input so I haven't felt the need to go gen 2 USB. I might go uber analog in the future though.
> 
> From what i've read, orange glbes, matsu****as and voshkods are very much recommended. Sigh....the perils of this hobby.


 

 I know what you mean about the perils of this hobby 

 I'd eventually like to try some Orange Globes, but not until my Matsu's wear out.  The way I figure it, I already love the sound of my Matsu's, and the Voshkod's will be a good replacement someday until I can order some Amperex OG's or find another set of Matsu's.

 Then again, enough never seems to be enough when it comes to tube rolling... heh heh


----------



## CJs06

xdaggersoul said:


> Just got my Magni and Modi stack and my cans are DT 990 Pro, enjoying the sound of it!!


 
 I think the DT990 Pro is an awesome value, gald to hear someone else enjoys it  I've used it with my Vali/Modi and now use it with my Lyr/Bifrost. Awesome sauce is my expression. Much more mid and high frequency response compared to my X1s, and honestly the bass FR is good, well defined and fairly deep.
  
 In regards to tube rolling with the Lyr, I've used the stock GE tubes and then switched to a matched pair of Aperex Orange Label PQ 6DJ8s. Definietly quality tubes and I could tell slightly more emphasis in bass FR compared to the GE tubes.


----------



## Maxvla

amictus said:


> +1? If you see what I mean? I would like to see kothganesh's question answered, olor1n (and Maxvla).



X-Sabre for me, M51 for him.


----------



## Traum

timpicks said:


> Funny you mention the Voskhod's.  I'm running the Uberfrost/Lyr combo with the HiFiman HE-500's (not the HD800's), but I also found the stock Lyr tubes way too bright.  The treble was cracking uncomfortably in my ear, while the mids and lows didn't have enough "oomph".  Same as what you were experiencing.
> 
> My first replacement tubes were a pair of Matsush*ta E8CC/6922's, and they sound WONDERFUL.  Balanced from top to bottom.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your experience, Timpicks! While I'm very happy with the Voshkod, you are certainly getting me curious about these Matsushxta E8CC/6922.

Hmm... the perils of this hobby... I should have known better when the forum welcome line is "Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry about your wallet."


----------



## tuna47

I have used many different tubes but over all like the telefunken the best


----------



## Tuco1965

Currently putting some extended run time on my BBs in hopes of some change from my initial listening.


----------



## Amictus

maxvla said:


> X-Sabre for me, M51 for him.


 
 Thanks. I enjoyed reading reviews of those two. I envy you your single block of aluminium and the sound quality, and I envy his HDMI inputs.


----------



## Ultramus

maxvla said:


> X-Sabre for me, M51 for him.




Nfb. 1.32 for me, not that I'm using an 800, but I heard kind of similar notions of going/mj not pairing well with the HE-500, really want a Master 7.


----------



## brokenthumb

Bought a Asgard 2 a couple days ago and liked it so well with the LCD-2 that I just pulled the trigger on a new Mjolnir and a balanced cable for my LCD-2.  Mjolnir should be here on Tuesday and the cable soon after.  Also the Schiit stuff looks way better in person than it does in photos, I was impressed when I pulled the A2 out of the box.


----------



## jaywillin

brokenthumb said:


> Bought a Asgard 2 a couple days ago and liked it so well with the LCD-2 that I just pulled the trigger on a new Mjolnir and a balanced cable for my LCD-2.  Mjolnir should be here on Tuesday and the cable soon after.  Also the Schiit stuff looks way better in person than it does in photos, I was impressed when I pulled the A2 out of the box.


 

 the mjo and lcd 2 are great together !


----------



## joebobbilly

brokenthumb said:


> Bought a Asgard 2 a couple days ago and liked it so well with the LCD-2 that I just pulled the trigger on a new Mjolnir and a balanced cable for my LCD-2.  Mjolnir should be here on Tuesday and the cable soon after.  Also the Schiit stuff looks way better in person than it does in photos, I was impressed when I pulled the A2 out of the box.


 

 Congrats! Great pairing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I'd recommend a balanced DAC to complete and bring out even more... given the Gungnir is an obvious choice for both sonic and aesthetic reasons 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (sorry for your wallet).


----------



## brokenthumb

jaywillin said:


> the mjo and lcd 2 are great together !


 
  
 That's what I've been reading anyway!  I've made it to page 75 on the Mjolnir thread so far... my eyes are starting to cross.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


joebobbilly said:


> Congrats! Great pairing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks!  Yeah I plan on adding the Gungnir once my wallet has had time to recover.


----------



## kothganesh

brokenthumb said:


> .................
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!  Yeah I plan on adding the Gungnir once my wallet has had time to recover.


 
 Ok, time's up. Have you ordered the Gungnir yet ?


----------



## Gerzom

brokenthumb said:


> Bought a Asgard 2 a couple days ago and liked it so well with the LCD-2 that I just pulled the trigger on a new Mjolnir and a balanced cable for my LCD-2.  Mjolnir should be here on Tuesday and the cable soon after.  Also the Schiit stuff looks way better in person than it does in photos, I was impressed when I pulled the A2 out of the box.


 
 Hi,
  
 I went down the same route (although I started with the Gungnir)  The upgrade from Asgard 2 to Mjolnir is awesome.
 You'll be in for a treat. What cable did you order?


----------



## brokenthumb

kothganesh said:


> Ok, time's up. Have you ordered the Gungnir yet ?


 
  
 lol It will be a few weeks... at least that's what I tell myself...
  


gerzom said:


> Hi,
> 
> I went down the same route (although I started with the Gungnir)  The upgrade from Asgard 2 to Mjolnir is awesome.
> You'll be in for a treat. What cable did you order?


 
  
 I just ordered the balanced stock Audeze cable from Justin at Headamp for now.  I'm thinking once I buy the Gungnir a Q French Silk may be on the list.  I love the look of those in brown with the LCD-2s.  Dang, my wallet may never recover after these upgrades.


----------



## Rem0o

Black Valhallas are back on Schiit's website.


----------



## myrr

If only they had black Bifrosts to match!


----------



## Eee Pee

Yeah and like I said in the other thread, I emailed them to confirm it, and they said yes they're in stock.


----------



## CJs06

How cool is that. Alot of people have been asking for black Schiit here on Head-Fi and they graciously answered.


----------



## fenderf4i

cjs06 said:


> How cool is that. Alot of people have been asking for black Schiit here on Head-Fi and they graciously answered.


 
  
  
 Or it was another mistake, like last time!


----------



## CJs06

fenderf4i said:


> Or it was another mistake, like last time!



Well, I checked their website and sure enough it shows the option to! Limited availability of course.


----------



## markm1

brokenthumb said:


> Bought a Asgard 2 a couple days ago and liked it so well with the LCD-2 that I just pulled the trigger on a new Mjolnir and a balanced cable for my LCD-2.  Mjolnir should be here on Tuesday and the cable soon after.  Also the Schiit stuff looks way better in person than it does in photos, I was impressed when I pulled the A2 out of the box.


 

 That's nice to hear owning an A-2. I had read that the Asgard might not be enough for the LCD-2...like you'd at least want a Lyric.


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> That's nice to hear owning an A-2. I had read that the Asgard might not be enough for the LCD-2...like you'd at least want a Lyric.


 

 i had all three with the lcd2, to me it was a good, better, best regarding the a2,lyr, mjo


----------



## UmustBKidn

rem0o said:


> Black Valhallas are back on Schiit's website.


 
  
 Oh my. Now that's pretty. Veeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyy pretty.


----------



## kothganesh

jaywillin said:


> i had all three with the lcd2, to me it was a good, better, best regarding the a2,lyr, mjo



Same here but funny ! I actually would reverse the positions of the Lyr and the mojo, IMO. We do hear differently.


----------



## jaywillin

kothganesh said:


> Same here but funny ! I actually would reverse the positions of the Lyr and the mojo, IMO. We do hear differently.


 

 with the lcd x, i'd have that order too, listening to x with the lyr with a pair of two star phillips mini watts, sq,


----------



## markm1

jaywillin said:


> with the lcd x, i'd have that order too, listening to x with the lyr with a pair of two star phillips mini watts, sq,


 

 Well, regardless in terms of cost effectiveness bang for buck, Lyric sounds like a no brainer


----------



## jexby

markm1 said:


> Well, regardless in terms of cost effectiveness bang for buck, Lyric sounds like a no brainer




You want cost effective? Consider a Project Ember with supercharger module, it's cheaper.
I'm leaning this way for HE-500 after selling Lyr.
Ember should present blacker background and tube rolling expenses in future are half due to single tube design.

Not quite the wattage of Lyr, but enough for HE-500 at about 1.6W per channel.


----------



## worminater

Ooooh that's pirdy.  Kinda wanna trade mine in for one.. 
  
 -Chris
 Quote:


umustbkidn said:


> Oh my. Now that's pretty. Veeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyy pretty.


----------



## jaywillin

markm1 said:


> Well, regardless in terms of cost effectiveness bang for buck, Lyric sounds like a no brainer


 

 i agree completely !


----------



## radiojam

I am one of the few who prefers the silver chassis


----------



## Tuco1965

radiojam said:


> I am one of the few who prefers the silver chassis


 
 You're not alone.  I prefer the silver too.


----------



## fenderf4i

I would never consider buying a black one.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

Just recieved my black version to replace the original silver one I had. Man this thing is drop dead gorgeous. I love the matte finish, really goes well with the glowing tubes


----------



## Byrnie

Oh wow I didn't see this thread before!  I'm currently saving for a pair of TH900s and plan to use them with my Asgard 2+Bifrost Uber combo.  If that doesn't cut it I will be eyeing the Ragnorak with the Bifrost.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

I would prefer the silver finish too. 
Nevertheless, the black finish looks great on this amp.


----------



## HPiper

If it was in there I didn't see it, how long does the Lyr take to burn-in, Around the typical 50-100hrs?


----------



## RickB

I've purchased an Asgard 2 to upgrade from Vali and Magni. It should be delivered tomorrow.
  
 It'll be great to have a front-mounted volume control for my Audioengine A2's; I'm tired of using software volume control for them.


----------



## fenderf4i

SYS!


----------



## Byrnie

rickb said:


> I've purchased an Asgard 2 to upgrade from Vali and Magni. It should be delivered tomorrow.
> 
> It'll be great to have a front-mounted volume control for my Audioengine A2's; I'm tired of using software volume control for them.


 
 Oh you're really gonna love it.  I never plan on selling mine!


----------



## RickB

byrnie said:


> Oh you're really gonna love it.  I never plan on selling mine!


 
  
 Thanks, I'm really looking forward to getting it. And hopefully stopping any more purchases for a while.


----------



## Byrnie

rickb said:


> Thanks, I'm really looking forward to getting it. And hopefully stopping any more purchases for a while.


 
 You picked the wrong hobby for that haha!


----------



## RickB

byrnie said:


> You picked the wrong hobby for that haha!


 

 Unfortunately true!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

fenderf4i said:


> SYS!


 
  
 What's the point of having the magni if you already have a lyr?


----------



## fenderf4i

blackenedplague said:


> What's the point of having the magni if you already have a lyr?





That's a Vali. It's easier to take with me than the Lyr.

And, because I can.


----------



## Ultramus

Oh how I wish they would make a Mjolnir in matte black, it would match my DAC and make my uneven stack look a little more congruent, but at least it sounds good!
  
 Really looking forward to hearing comparisons between the Rag and the MJ balanced out, that's definitely what intrigues me the most, and some comparisons between the Cavalli liquid cobalt and gold.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

fenderf4i said:


> That's a Vali. It's easier to take with me than the Lyr.
> 
> And, because I can.


 
  
 Whatever, it's your money.


----------



## fenderf4i

It brings me pleasure when someone gets offended that I would have Schiit that I don't need or use. I also have an Asgard2 that's collecting dust. It does look good sitting on my desk though!

I'm very happy with the SYS purchase, not having to have one of the amps on to have preamp functionality is fantastic.


----------



## myrr

After trying the Vali/Modi combo out I decided to return them and order the Valhalla/Uberfrost which arrived yesterday! Very nice indeed the fit and finish on these is great, the sound quality is improved for sure with my HD650s. Thank you all for yours posts i've learned a lot so far. 

Going to be tinkering with my settings, i'm using an optical connection from my PC as I didn't purchase the USB nor did I want to fuss with drivers. The clicking of the DAC isn't a huge issue as I only have these on when i'm actually using headphones anyways. I did have an issue after setting my output to 24/96 with some odd behavior while gaming. I'll have to head over to the Bifrost thread to figure out the best settings to use.

Also this is my first tube amp so it's interesting hearing the difference in sound vs. solid state. Not sure if tube rolling is in my future or not...


----------



## Tuco1965

I have a small stack along with my big one for more portability around my house.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

fenderf4i said:


> It brings me pleasure when someone gets offended that I would have Schiit that I don't need or use. I also have an Asgard2 that's collecting dust. It does look good sitting on my desk though!


 
  
 I'm not offended.


----------



## superjawes

All I have so far is a little Magni, but that black Valhalla is mighty tempting...


----------



## Rudiger

fenderf4i said:


> It brings me pleasure when someone gets offended that I would have Schiit that I don't need or use. I also have an Asgard2 that's collecting dust. It does look good sitting on my desk though!




You are so funny. You should buy more expensive audio things and hang it on your wall to admire.


----------



## clientnumber9

fenderf4i said:


> SYS!


 
  
 Thats some nice retail therapy right there.


----------



## CJs06

rudiger said:


> You are so funny. You should buy more expensive audio things and hang it on your wall to admire.


 
 lol I'd hardly call an Asgard 2 expensive... it is very admirable though.


----------



## fenderf4i

clientnumber9 said:


> Thats some nice retail therapy right there.





The best part about everything Schiit is that it is very financially attainable compared to a lot of audio equipment. Love it!


----------



## StanD

rudiger said:


> You are so funny. You should buy more expensive audio things and hang it on your wall to admire.


 
  
  


cjs06 said:


> lol I'd hardly call an Asgard 2 expensive... it is very admirable though.


 
 Apparently someone hasn't been shopping around and experienced the sticker shock. Isn't it Mr. T (Clubber Lang)  that said, "I predict pain" in the wallet.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Isn't it Mr. T (Clubber Lang)  that said, "I predict pain" in the wallet.


 
  
 Not if factor in the capability of the human ear, real-world measurements and resisting the normal audiophile BS.... which I must commend Schiit for doing most of the time (won't mention anything to avoid flame wars and bannings)


----------



## wahsmoh

byrnie said:


> Oh you're really gonna love it.  I never plan on selling mine!


 
  
 Isn't the Bifrost Uber + Asgard 2 combo something else? Since I bought my DT880s in 2012 I remember my initial impression was that they were tonally thin. After intense burn in and upgrade-itis I have finally hit a high point where my DT880s have found perfect synergy. Now to get me a pair of Alpha Dogs. I sent my income tax return in by mail and I'm pissed now because last year I e-filed it and got it in 3 weeks, it's been 3 week!!! Where is my tax return


----------



## funaudio

Hi guys,
 Would like to joint the group!
 I just bought Schiit Lyr from member here 
 Still looking the headphone to matched with this one.
 Cheer, Dan


----------



## tuna47

Try he 500 great deals now way under priced


----------



## NZheadcase

tuna47 said:


> Try he 500 great deals now way under priced


 
  
 +1
  
 Could not agree more. good match with the Lyr too.


----------



## funaudio

Thanks for advices, guys!
 After play with Schiit lyr for couple hrs, I feel its hot but still can touch it! 
 Is it normal or my headphone amp has a problems!? I use Telefunken tubes...


----------



## Byronb

funaudio said:


> Thanks for advices, guys!
> After play with Schiit lyr for couple hrs, I feel its hot but still can touch it!
> Is it normal or my headphone amp has a problems!? I use Telefunken tubes...


 
 The Lyr does get warm for sure! That is normal.


----------



## Tuco1965

Different tube varieties can change the temp too.  The 6DJ8s I'm  running right now are cooler than the stock tubes.  It's all good.


----------



## Pianist718

this is so weird ... since my DAC (Modi) connected via USB ... if I listen to music and do browsing on PC, it doesn't play smoothly. Pretty much any tasking on PC that may slow it down is reflecting on sound. How is that possible>?
  
 I plugged into my new USB3 card.


----------



## Maxvla

Try a USB 2.0 port instead.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Yes stick with USB 2


----------



## Pianist718

just did .... problem solved 
 thank you so much.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Does the Modi support 88.2khz? I'm thinking about using it as an external dac for my hi-fi rig (as opposed to soiundcard optical-to-receiver dac)


----------



## Tuco1965

Yes as per Schiit Modi spec page.


----------



## Byrnie

ultramus said:


> Oh how I wish they would make a Mjolnir in matte black, it would match my DAC and make my uneven stack look a little more congruent, but at least it sounds good!
> 
> Really looking forward to hearing comparisons between the Rag and the MJ balanced out, that's definitely what intrigues me the most, and some comparisons between the Cavalli liquid cobalt and gold.




I wish the Mjolnir had a single ended headphone output  .


----------



## HPiper

byrnie said:


> I wish the Mjolnir had a single ended headphone output  .


 

 Me too, I had assumed it did until I looked on their webpage and looked real close. I looked for the longest time thinking somehow I had just missed it, then I figured out I hadn't missed it, it just wasn't there.


----------



## Byrnie

wahsmoh said:


> Isn't the Bifrost Uber + Asgard 2 combo something else? Since I bought my DT880s in 2012 I remember my initial impression was that they were tonally thin. After intense burn in and upgrade-itis I have finally hit a high point where my DT880s have found perfect synergy. Now to get me a pair of Alpha Dogs. I sent my income tax return in by mail and I'm pissed now because last year I e-filed it and got it in 3 weeks, it's been 3 week!!! Where is my tax return :confused_face:



That's rough! I got mine back in a week.


----------



## jaywillin

hpiper said:


> Me too, I had assumed it did until I looked on their webpage and looked real close. I looked for the longest time thinking somehow I had just missed it, then I figured out I hadn't missed it, it just wasn't there.


 

 i just bought a mjo off the sale thread, and mine will have a single ended headphone out, called the lyr lol
 i'll run balanced out of my dac to the mjo, and the single ended out to the lyr
 if your dac doesn't have balanced outputs, you can use a splitter out the dac, that gives two single ended out puts
 one to the mjo, another to any single ended amp of your choice !


----------



## Ultramus

jaywillin said:


> i just bought a mjo off the sale thread, and mine will have a single ended headphone out, called the lyr lol
> i'll run balanced out of my dac to the mjo, and the single ended out to the lyr
> if your dac doesn't have balanced outputs, you can use a splitter out the dac, that gives two single ended out puts
> one to the mjo, another to any single ended amp of your choice !




Not sure which headphones you are using but using the mojo as a preamp for the lyr feels like you would have WAY too much gain, but Icould be wrong.


----------



## jaywillin

jaywillin said:


> i just bought a mjo off the sale thread, and mine will have a single ended headphone out, called the lyr lol
> *i'll run balanced out of my dac to the mjo, and the single ended out to the lyr*
> if your dac doesn't have balanced outputs, you can use a splitter out the dac, that gives two single ended out puts
> one to the mjo, another to any single ended amp of your choice !


 
  
  


ultramus said:


> Not sure which headphones you are using but using the mojo as a preamp for the lyr feels like you would have WAY too much gain, but Icould be wrong.


 
 i'm not using the mjo as a preamp , someone had something about wishing the mjo had a single ended headphone output, i was making a joke


----------



## Attackingtots

I have a Modi Magni Mjolnir and Gungnir sitting on my desk


----------



## Byrnie

attackingtots said:


> I have a Modi Magni Mjolnir and Gungnir sitting on my desk



Lol nice jump dude!


----------



## Amictus

attackingtots said:


> I have a Modi Magni Mjolnir and Gungnir sitting on my desk


 
 Music to my ears, and to yours, of course... Congtratulations!


----------



## SpArkLeS

Hey guys!
  
 I'm looking into getting an external amp/dac and Schiit looks very nice. 
 Now I currently have a Xonar Essence STX and I have read that if I would get the Schiit Magni/Modi combo that it wouldn't really be an upgrade.
  
 So what should I get instead? The Asgard 2 but which dac would I get?
  
 Headphones I have now: Ultrasone Pro 550, Sennheiser Momentum, V-Moda M100
  
 Coming soon: Philips Fidelio X1, AKG K701, Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (250 Ohm)
  
 Maybe later I'll get an Sennheiser HD600/650


----------



## Byrnie

sparkles said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I'm looking into getting an external amp/dac and Schiit looks very nice.
> Now I currently have a Xonar Essence STX and I have read that if I would get the Schiit Magni/Modi combo that it wouldn't really be an upgrade.
> ...



I would just do an Asgard 2 and a Modi for now.


----------



## joebobbilly

sparkles said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I'm looking into getting an external amp/dac and Schiit looks very nice.
> Now I currently have a Xonar Essence STX and I have read that if I would get the Schiit Magni/Modi combo that it wouldn't really be an upgrade.
> ...


 

 Your DAC is decent, so I'd personally skip the Modi (save for uberfrost) and just feed the Asgard 2 with your soundcard. Lyr is a flexible option too if you wanna tube roll... and it also prepares you for any potential steps towards any planar magnetic cans.
  
 EDIT: Get the HD650/600 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 they are wonderful cans (Difference between the two is not big. I'm biased to HD650 though... I prefer it more)


----------



## SpArkLeS

Hmm nice, how much of an improvement would that combo be? 
  
 => Asgard 2 & Bifrost
  
 Question though, how would I connect the bifrost to the computer? I see on the website that you can optionally get the USB gen 2 imput but that 100€ extra.


----------



## Tuco1965

If your pc has SPDIF outputs you can skip usb input.


----------



## SpArkLeS

tuco1965 said:


> If your pc has SPDIF outputs you can skip usb input.


 
 It has an optical output
  
 It's the Asus Sabertooth Z77


----------



## Tuco1965

You can save money by not adding usb to the Bifrost then.  It can always be added later if needed.


----------



## Netrum

sparkles said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I'm looking into getting an external amp/dac and Schiit looks very nice.
> Now I currently have a Xonar Essence STX and I have read that if I would get the Schiit Magni/Modi combo that it wouldn't really be an upgrade.
> ...



I upgraded from the STX sound card to Modi + Asgard 2.
And believe me when i say it is a huge improvement.
Highly recommend it sir.


----------



## SpArkLeS

netrum said:


> I upgraded from the STX sound card to Modi + Asgard 2.
> And believe me when i say it is a huge improvement.
> Highly recommend it sir.


 
  
 Thx!
  
 It's saving time


----------



## Attackingtots

Modi Vali combo sound so nice with Beyerdynamic dt900 So good


----------



## CJs06

attackingtots said:


> Modi Vali combo sound so nice with Beyerdynamic dt900 So good


Right you are!


----------



## radiojam

Does anyone have experience with how well a Bottlehead Crack sits on top of a Bifrost?  It's a little difficult getting the exact dimensions of the Crack but from my research it looks +/- 10.5" x 6.5"?  The Bifrost is 9" x 6.75" (ignoring height) so it sounds like it could be doable.


----------



## Attackingtots

Im looking food a good solid state amp for my brother who's just getting into audio. Would a Modi Or Asgard 2 be better for someone who's just getting into this


----------



## madwolfa

attackingtots said:


> Im looking food a good solid state amp for my brother who's just getting into audio. Would a Modi Or Asgard 2 be better for someone who's just getting into this


 
  
 Asgard 2 might be the only amp he would ever need...


----------



## jaywillin

^^^^^ +1


----------



## fenderf4i

+1


----------



## Attackingtots

Thanks good advice


----------



## RickB

attackingtots said:


> Im looking food a good solid state amp for my brother who's just getting into audio. Would a Modi Or Asgard 2 be better for someone who's just getting into this


 

 Asgard 2 is noticeably better than Magni.


----------



## moriez

rickb said:


> attackingtots said:
> 
> 
> > Im looking food a good solid state amp for my brother who's just getting into audio. Would a Modi Or Asgard 2 be better for someone who's just getting into this
> ...


 
  
 That may be so. Haven't heard Magni. But it's important to know what headphones will be used. The A2 I recently had was pretty warm to say the least. Personnally I would choose a neutral can to go with that. The HD-650 for example was way too warm a pairing. Slow, dark, etc.


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone can give advice if the Mjolnir would be a good pairing for HD600/800 ?


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Anyone can give advice if the Mjolnir would be a good pairing for HD600/800 ?



Mojo is Ok (lukewarm endorsement). In my experience, tube amps do very well with the Senns. I have the 650 and the 800.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks. Am trying to get a good substitute for all the expensive tube rolling! Lol


----------



## kothganesh

Rossliew,
  
 one cheaper option is the Bottlehead Crack with the Speedball upgrade. Yes, tube rolling will not go away but if you read the right threads you can settle on some tubes very quickly that will keep you happy.


----------



## UmustBKidn

attackingtots said:


> Im looking food a good solid state amp for my brother who's just getting into audio. Would a Modi Or Asgard 2 be better for someone who's just getting into this


 
  
 The Modi is a DAC, not an amplifier. I presume you meant Magni. I have not personally heard an Asgard, but I would expect it to perform better than a Magni.
  
 A better question to ask is, what is the budget for the setup your bro is looking for? I assume he needs a DAC, an amp, and some cans. The amp is just one part of that setup, and arguably the *least important* in terms of the overall sound quality.
  
 Put another way, the DAC and headphones will have a greater impact on the sound quality of the setup, than an amplifier will. If his budget is say, $400 clams, then dropping $250 on an amp doesn't leave you much for a DAC or cans. Spend $99 on a Modi, and you're left with $50 bucks for headphones. That's not going to sound very good, no matter what you pick for headphones.
  
 If you didn't budget for a DAC, then quite frankly the choice of amplifier isn't going to matter a whole lot. Even if the A2 is a bunch better than a Magni.
  
 There is some debate over which component should receive the lion's share of your budget. However, most seem to state that the DAC and the headphones deserve the majority of the budget. The amplifier is not the top priority.
  
 So if it were me, and I had $400 clams to spend on my first good headphone setup, I'd probably drop $200 into the headphones, $100 into a Modi, and $100 or so into either a Magni or a Vali amp. The Modi DAC is absolutely the best DAC you can get for the money in this price range; you need to spend a whole lot more to improve on it (can you say $400 for a Bifrost?) Further, the Vali amp has received some really amazing reviews, notwithstanding the ringing issue (if you want to skip the ringing, then grab a Magni). That means you can go out and spend some decent money on cans (say, a set of Beyers), which should yield a very respectable setup.
  
 I would be so bold as to say that such a setup would blow away an A2 driven by a Modi, through $50 dollar headphones. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.


----------



## Attackingtots

Yeah i ment to say magni but im dumb. good advice tho thanks alot


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

kothganesh said:


> Mojo is Ok (lukewarm endorsement). In my experience, tube amps do very well with the Senns. I have the 650 and the 800.


 
  
 or, you could just get an Asgard


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> Anyone can give advice if the Mjolnir would be a good pairing for HD600/800 ?


 
 It will depend on your source. Considering Mjolnir is a forward amp the HD800 is a tricky paring with it.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the tip, paradoxper. Perhaps if i used something like a Minimax Dac, it would pair better?


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the tip, paradoxper. Perhaps if i used something like a Minimax Dac, it would pair better?


 
 The MM is definitely a good choice with the HD800. The added benefit of being able to tube roll might help out as well.


----------



## Rossliew

May i know which amp are you pairing with the HD800?


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> May i know which amp are you pairing with the HD800?


 
 I sold all my dynamic/ortho's some time ago.


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> May i know which amp are you pairing with the HD800?



Eddie Current Zana Deux


----------



## Rossliew

paradoxper said:


> I sold all my dynamic/ortho's some time ago.




Do you find the estats signature to be similar to the 800s? Sorry for the diversion from Schiit discussions!


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Eddie Current Zana Deux




Have read good impressions on this pairing. Unfortunately, its over my budget to own the EC for now. Does it have an iron grip on the bass?


----------



## paradoxper

rossliew said:


> Do you find the estats signature to be similar to the 800s? Sorry for the diversion from Schiit discussions!


 
 I find the HD800's to be completely flat and boring in comparison. They have good imaging and a nice soundstage, but the presentation kind of sucks to me now. I am a Stax convert.


----------



## Byrnie

attackingtots said:


> Im looking food a good solid state amp for my brother who's just getting into audio. Would a Modi Or Asgard 2 be better for someone who's just getting into this


 
 An amp will make more of a difference on sound than a DAC so I would say go with an Asgard 2.


----------



## Saraguie

byrnie said:


> An amp will make more of a difference on sound than a DAC so I would say go with an Asgard 2.


 
 I disagree......DAC more important IMO.


----------



## jexby

And here we go with the DAC vs Amp ping pong...


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Have read good impressions on this pairing. Unfortunately, its over my budget to own the EC for now. Does it have an iron grip on the bass?


 
 Taut bass is the way I think of it. But just as a tease, I echo paradoxper: Sr 007 and KGSShv ( Mmmmmmm!)


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Taut bass is the way I think of it. But just as a tease, I echo paradoxper: Sr 007 and KGSShv ( Mmmmmmm!)


 
  
 LOL!! That's an even higher end rig which I can't afford! But, electrostats, as I understand, are not that bass heavy as well, no?


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> LOL!! That's an even higher end rig which I can't afford! But, electrostats, as I understand, are not that bass heavy as well, no?


 
 IMO, the electrostats will deliver bass to the fullest extent present in the recordings. But it will not add bass on top of the existing bass, a la, say, Fostex TH 900. Trust that answers your query.


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> IMO, the electrostats will deliver bass to the fullest extent present in the recordings. But it will not add bass on top of the existing bass, a la, say, Fostex TH 900. Trust that answers your query.


 
 I've auditioned the SR407 with the SRM-727 II and yes, it had the deepest bass found in audiophile recordings - believe the track I was listening to was Rebecca Pidgeon's Spanish Harlem. It was astonishing! However, when I switched to faster tunes i.e. metal, i heard some distortion and thinning of sound. Is this what it means by the estats having weak mid-bass capabilities? It just couldn't reproduce the thundering double bass drums like my Grados can or even a HD600/650.


----------



## kothganesh

Rossliew,
 I'll PM you. We have gone way past subject on this thread.


----------



## SpArkLeS

So should I do it or not?


----------



## smellyfungus

you're at the wrong place if you're expecting anyone to say no.

do it.


----------



## kothganesh

sparkles said:


> So should I do it or not?


 
 You're not going to wriggle out of this, are you ?


----------



## SpArkLeS

kothganesh said:


> You're not going to wriggle out of this, are you ?


 
 I don't think so, I'll be combining it with my Xonar Essence stx and maybe later this year get the bifrost. 
  
 I've kinda made up my mind, it's just hard for me to press the button because it is alot of money. 
  
 Anyone recommand me some rca cables (around 2/3meters)


----------



## prsut

sparkles said:


> I don't think so, I'll be combining it with my Xonar Essence stx and maybe later this year get the bifrost.
> 
> I've kinda made up my mind, it's just hard for me to press the button because it is alot of money.
> 
> Anyone recommand me some rca cables (around 2/3meters)


 
 what is the shop for A2 ?
  
 Edit : I found it...


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Rossliew,
> I'll PM you. We have gone way past subject on this thread.




True enough. Sorry all for that.


----------



## zachchen1996

sparkles said:


> So should I do it or not?


 
  
 Personally I would say no. I would rather put my money towards _*one* high-end / totl headphone _rather than _several midrange headphones_. But that's just me.


----------



## Gerzom

zachchen1996 said:


> Personally I would say no. I would rather put my money towards _*one* high-end / totl headphone _rather than _several midrange headphones_. But that's just me.


 
 +1
  
 Go for the A2 (ik heb er thuis ook een staan en het is een geweldige versterker!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ) and I would combine the budget for both headphones and put it towards 1 higher end model (not knowing your reasoning behind getting 2 headphones, of course)


----------



## kothganesh

gerzom said:


> +1
> 
> Go for the A2 (ik heb er thuis ook een staan en het is een geweldige versterker!!   ) and I would combine the budget for both headphones and put it towards 1 higher end model (not knowing your reasoning behind getting 2 headphones, of course)



You make a great point on the 2 headphones issue. My first reaction would also be to save the cash and buy high-end. People here do go for multiple headphones for different genres.


----------



## ljperez84

Since I've read a lot about the Valhalla and the HD650 is a very nice match, I'm considering in the mid-term getting a Valhalla amp for my home rig. I currently own a Audio GD Fun (DAC / AMP Combo), I would like to know if any of you has had the oportunity to compare an Audio GD product (Maybe the Compass, Fun or NBF12) against the valhalla. Certainly the FUN has a lot of power. Would we be talking about a big change or would it be noticeable but Marginal?


 


How does the valhalla matches Grado cans? My other home headphones are SR225i. It's not that critical since the FUN match them very well and I'm planning to keep both, since the FUN is my only dac for the time being.


 


Sorry if this was asked before but the thread is very long!


 


Thanks!


----------



## CJs06

sparkles said:


> So should I do it or not?


 
 Do it! I really like the DT990pro, fantastic for many genres of music.


----------



## tuna47

For a few euros more get the HE500 a slam dunk


----------



## Redshifted

Hey guys,

I recently received a pair of HE-500s and paired them with a magni and modi. It sounds okay but I think I'd like to step it up to one of the other, more powerful schiit offerings. Any suggestions? DAC or amp.


----------



## tuna47

Have bifrost uber andLyr really like great sound bass and power just need good tubes for the Lyr


----------



## Rudiger

I suggest the Vali. Good with he-500, better than the magni imo


----------



## jexby

redshifted said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recently received a pair of HE-500s and paired them with a magni and modi. It sounds okay but I think I'd like to step it up to one of the other, more powerful schiit offerings. Any suggestions? DAC or amp.


 
  
 here we go with all the "buy a Lyr" replies and +1s.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll condense my findings with HE-500, as I owned Bifrost Uber, Asgard2, Lyr.  still own Vali.
  
 1.  Bifrost Uber was superb under all set ups, might be slightly overpriced if all you need is USB from computer and want to stay on budget?
  
 2.  Lyr sounded "the best" but only after spending $ to try and find the "right tubes" for musical preference.
 even then, presentation sounded a bit "farther back" spatially, a tad of low hum in the background if you really cranked volume.
 was Lyr+tubes "worth" twice the cost of Asgard2.   not for me.
  
 3.  Asgard2.  Been out of my hands for awhile, had no real complaints with the HE-500 pairing.  music was a bit "closer" spatially than Lyr, great detail, speed, cleanest background.  rarely could/would crank volume past 12.
  
 4. HE-500 into Vali now, perhaps not the best bass tightness.  but clarity, musical details and soundstage all are good.
 not the ideal pairing perhaps, and a mW downgrade from your Magni.   
  
 sorry for no clear vote as my ears won't match yours, hope you can demo another fine schiit product.
  
 Here come the Emotiva-X amp fans next....


----------



## Redshifted

jexby said:


> here we go with all the "buy a Lyr" replies and +1s.
> I'll condense my findings with HE-500, as I owned Bifrost Uber, Asgard2, Lyr.  still own Vali.
> 
> 1.  Bifrost Uber was superb under all set ups, might be slightly overpriced if all you need is USB from computer and want to stay on budget?
> ...




Appreciate the detailed response. Right now I'm leaning towards the Asgard. Deciding whether or not it's worth the price upgrading the modi to a bifrost or just keeping the modi.


----------



## Tuco1965

I would put your money into the amp first, then see how it sounds from there. The Modi is a fine little dac.


----------



## jexby

Note:  in another thread, minutes ago, Jason of Schiit hinted at a cheaper-than-BiFrost DAC with optical input.
 don't know if that means it's a "Modi+optical"  or a new mini-Bifrost Uber with USB and optical" ???


----------



## Rudiger

redshifted said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recently received a pair of HE-500s and paired them with a magni and modi. It sounds okay but I think I'd like to step it up to one of the other, more powerful schiit offerings. Any suggestions? DAC or amp.







jexby said:


> Note:*  in another thread, minutes ago, Jason of Schiit hinted at a cheaper-than-BiFrost DAC with optical input.*
> don't know if that means it's a "Modi+optical"  or a new mini-Bifrost Uber with USB and optical" ???



In the vali thread


----------



## SpArkLeS

zachchen1996 said:


> Personally I would say no. I would rather put my money towards _*one* high-end / totl headphone _rather than _several midrange headphones_. But that's just me.


 
  
  


gerzom said:


> +1
> 
> Go for the A2 (ik heb er thuis ook een staan en het is een geweldige versterker!!
> 
> ...


 
  

  


kothganesh said:


> You make a great point on the 2 headphones issue. My first reaction would also be to save the cash and buy high-end. People here do go for multiple headphones for different genres.


 
  
  
 Thx! The Schiit Asgard 2/ Bifrost will be coming to my desk, sure of that. 
  
 Think I'll just get the HD600, really curious to how it sounds.
  
 thx


----------



## kothganesh

sparkles said:


> Thx! The Schiit Asgard 2/ Bifrost will be coming to my desk, sure of that.
> 
> Think I'll just get the HD600, really curious to how it sounds.
> 
> thx




You can't go wrong with any of the choices mentioned. Enjoy the music.


----------



## ADIKOS

I've got the Asgard 2 paired with my Onkyo A-9050 powering my LCD 2's. Sometime later this week I'll be upgrading the system with silver interconnects and a DIY braided 8 foot 22awg solid silver headphone cable.


----------



## Tuco1965

How do you like the Asgard?


----------



## TeskR

Hey guys does anyone know if you can switch Lyr, or any schiit amps as a matter of fact, voltage from 110V to 220V?

 So say if I buy an amp from the US second hand, how would I go about making it compatible in AUS, other then replacing power cable?


----------



## Attackingtots

teskr said:


> Hey guys does anyone know if you can switch Lyr, or any schiit amps as a matter of fact, voltage from 110V to 220V?
> 
> So say if I buy an amp from the US second hand, how would I go about making it compatible in AUS, other then replacing power cable?


 
 Unfortunately you can't you have to change the power cable


----------



## TeskR

attackingtots said:


> Unfortunately you can't you have to change the power cable :


 
  
 Don't the cables just plug into an inbuilt power supply? So wouldn't changing the cable not effect the fact that its still a 110V unit?


----------



## Attackingtots

i meant to say the power unit, you have to send it back to schiit to get it altered


----------



## TeskR

Ahh okay fair enough, thanks for the info!


----------



## Attackingtots

NP


----------



## fasty1

Hello guys just went ahead and bought myself a Magni to use with an HE400. My budget wouldnt allow me to get a MODI so i had to settle for hooking the Magni directly to my computer using a 3.5 mm to 2 RCA male cable. Would this significantly affect the sound quality since i heard that it would be using both the computer amp and the Magni. My motherboard is fairly high end

 "http://us.msi.com/product/mb/Z87_MPOWER.html#overview"

 Blue-Line in: Used for connecting external audio outputting devices.

 Green- Line out: Used as a connector for speakers or headphone.

 Pink- Mic: Used as a connector for a microphone.

 Black- RS-Out: Rear surround sound line out in 4/ 5.1/ 7.1 channel mode.

 Orange- CS-Out: Center/ subwoofer line out in 5.1/ 7.1 channel mode.

 Gray- SS-Out: Side surround sound line out in 7.1 channel mode.

  

 Thank you in advance!


----------



## fasty1

Hello guys just went ahead and bought myself a Magni to use with an HE400. My budget wouldnt allow me to get a MODI so i had to settle for hooking the Magni directly to my computer using a 3.5 mm to 2 RCA male cable. Would this significantly affect the sound quality since i heard that it would be using both the computer amp and the Magni. My motherboard is fairly high end z87 mpower max

 Thank you in advance! Here are my mobo audio ports

 Blue-Line in: Used for connecting external audio outputting devices.

 Green- Line out: Used as a connector for speakers or headphone.

 Pink- Mic: Used as a connector for a microphone.

 Black- RS-Out: Rear surround sound line out in 4/ 5.1/ 7.1 channel mode.

 Orange- CS-Out: Center/ subwoofer line out in 5.1/ 7.1 channel mode.

 Gray- SS-Out: Side surround sound line out in 7.1 channel mode.


----------



## ricksome

fasty1 >>> I have a MODI and a Magni on the way.. The Modi is the star of the show. Get one when you can afford to. Best Bang 4 the $ in audio. You don't know how bad the sound is in your computer until you get yourself a DAC. You don't need to spend more than $99.00


----------



## UmustBKidn

fasty1 said:


> Hello guys just went ahead and bought myself a Magni to use with an HE400. My budget wouldnt allow me to get a MODI so i had to settle for hooking the Magni directly to my computer using a 3.5 mm to 2 RCA male cable. Would this significantly affect the sound quality since i heard that it would be using both the computer amp and the Magni. My motherboard is fairly high end
> 
> "http://us.msi.com/product/mb/Z87_MPOWER.html#overview"
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, it affects the sound quality. The quality of your motherboard is not an issue. You're using a headphone out jack, which will drive a low to moderate impedance headphone without the use of an amplifier.
  
 And yes, you can do this for a while if you need to. But I would not suggest this as a permanent setup. Why? Honestly, because it sucks. The HE-400 is a low impedance can, so you really don't even need to drive it with an amp, if your budget is that tight. You could have just saved that money for the time when you can buy both an amp and a DAC.
  
 You won't really appreciate the difference until you hear it for the first time. And then you'll do a faceplant and wonder why you waited so long.
  
 Basically what's happening right now is that you are double-amp'ing your sound, and that just introduces more distortion. The headphone jack or speaker out jack is already amplified, so hooking another amp to that will just make things louder and noisier. You will not get cleaner sound until you introduce a DAC.


----------



## UmustBKidn

sparkles said:


> So should I do it or not?


 
  
 One or the other, but not both.


----------



## UmustBKidn

jexby said:


> Note:  in another thread, minutes ago, Jason of Schiit hinted at a cheaper-than-BiFrost DAC with optical input.
> don't know if that means it's a "Modi+optical"  or a new mini-Bifrost Uber with USB and optical" ???


 
  
 He specifically said it was not a "Modi 2".
  
 He said it was another DAC with optical capability. Presumably priced somewhat cheaper than a Bifrost. That is an excellent choice for their current lineup, since it's such a jump from a Modi to a Bifrost (Uber or not). Another DAC in the middle of that price range would be awesome.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tuco1965 said:


> I would put your money into the amp first, then see how it sounds from there. The Modi is a fine little dac.


 
  
 Respectfully disagree.
  
 I used to think like this until I bought my first DAC. At that point I knew I needed to get a DAC for any audio setup where I use headphones. I'm spoiled now. If I have to listen to a setup with only a headphone, that's preferable as opposed to listening to an amp driven by a headphone jack (or similar). Those just sound ugly to me now. There's just no excuse to not own at least a Modi. It's such a big step up from no DAC, and it's just too easy to afford. There's no excuse to skip it.


----------



## Saraguie

umustbkidn said:


> Respectfully disagree.
> 
> I used to think like this until I bought my first DAC. At that point I knew I needed to get a DAC for any audio setup where I use headphones. I'm spoiled now. If I have to listen to a setup with only a headphone, that's preferable as opposed to listening to an amp driven by a headphone jack (or similar). Those just sound ugly to me now. There's just no excuse to not own at least a Modi. It's such a big step up from no DAC, and it's just too easy to afford. There's no excuse to skip it.


 
 I agree......U expressed it exactly as I do.


----------



## Defiant00

umustbkidn said:


> Respectfully disagree.
> 
> I used to think like this until I bought my first DAC. At that point I knew I needed to get a DAC for any audio setup where I use headphones. I'm spoiled now. If I have to listen to a setup with only a headphone, that's preferable as opposed to listening to an amp driven by a headphone jack (or similar). Those just sound ugly to me now. There's just no excuse to not own at least a Modi. It's such a big step up from no DAC, and it's just too easy to afford. There's no excuse to skip it.


 
  
 And I'll have to respectfully disagree as well.
  
 For your setup I'm sure that was the case, but someone else's headphone jack might be significantly higher quality than what you were using (for example, my laptop's headphone out actually sounds fine with a couple of my cans).


----------



## Tuco1965

umustbkidn said:


> Respectfully disagree.
> 
> I used to think like this until I bought my first DAC. At that point I knew I needed to get a DAC for any audio setup where I use headphones. I'm spoiled now. If I have to listen to a setup with only a headphone, that's preferable as opposed to listening to an amp driven by a headphone jack (or similar). Those just sound ugly to me now. There's just no excuse to not own at least a Modi. It's such a big step up from no DAC, and it's just too easy to afford. There's no excuse to skip it.




Well that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would rather put funds into a single piece of the signal chain and build. That's how I've always built my systems. One piece at a time, other than the Magni and Modi which were just for fun.


----------



## Attackingtots

sparkles said:


> So should I do it or not?


 
  


sparkles said:


> So should I do it or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Attackingtots

umustbkidn said:


> He specifically said it was not a "Modi 2".
> 
> He said it was another DAC with optical capability. Presumably priced somewhat cheaper than a Bifrost. That is an excellent choice for their current lineup, since it's such a jump from a Modi to a Bifrost (Uber or not). Another DAC in the middle of that price range would be awesome.


 
 I agree, But only if its a tube amp or hybrid. I don't mind solid sate amps without a DAC


----------



## hughscot

The rule has always been to use the highest % on speakers (headphones) followed by amp and source. One can always upgrade the extra equipt.


----------



## Rudiger

Hi, this is a moment that I ask myself this question. Voilà, *the Magni and Vali have common points (of sound), how would you describe them?* I think they have in common that they sound a bit "metallic" and without much body. They must have common components that do this ? (Clarification: I greatly magnified the line, in fact I love the Vali and Schiit stuff in general).


----------



## Rusty143

Hi All!

Has anyone tried the Valhalla (newer version that allows tube rolling) and the Bifost Uber with the Sennheiser HD600 phones? What are your thoughts?

Please see my post in the recommendations thread for more background in the set-up and sound I am looking to create. 

Thanks and happy listening!!!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

What do you mean by the newer version?


----------



## superjawes

Yeah, the Valhalla amp still comes with a user manual that says that rolling tubes will not work, as the amplifier was specifically designed for the tubes they put in it (mine arrived two days ago).

If you want a Schiit amp that allows for tube rolling, you probably want to look at the Lyr. While it runs $100, it does offer a lot more, including higher power output, lower output impedance (for better compatibility with lower input impedance 'phones), and tube rolling.

The "Choosing a Headphone Amp" page does suggest that you can roll the tubes in Valhalla, but I would ask Schiit before I started any of that...you know what? I think I will go ahead and ask them about it. I'll let you know what I find out.


----------



## paradoxper

The Valhalla's are now rollable. This was announced some time ago. You can check the specs out on Schiit's site.


----------



## Rusty143

Anyone using the Valhalla and bifost with the Sennheiser HD 600? Wondering how good a choice this amp and DAC are for these headphones. 

Tube rolling can have a real influence on the sound of an amp. Good to hear you can roll with the Valhalla.


----------



## superjawes

Schiit Tech said:
			
		

> Sounds like you got an older manual. Sorry. The site is correct.
> 
> Nick T.



The PDF Valhalla's page looks like it's the same as what I got, but I checked the specs page again, at it does say that the 6N1P's are rollable. Good to know.

Anyway, I am using the 600's, and it sounds pretty great. I am not using a Bitfrost (at least not yet).


----------



## Rusty143

Does the Valhalla combine with the 600s to give a smooth, open, full sound? I sure don't want bright or brittle. 

Thanks for any more thoughts.


----------



## Byronb

rusty143 said:


> Does the Valhalla combine with the 600s to give a smooth, open, full sound? I sure don't want bright or brittle.
> 
> Thanks for any more thoughts


 
  
 The Valhalla paired with the Uber-Bifrost is an absolutely stunning pairing with the HD600/650. You won't get better in the price range and you can spend way more and still miss the mark.


----------



## Aether

Just got my Magni and Modi from FedEx today.  I'm using them to drive my HD 598's and, hopefully, a fair amount of my headphones in the future.  I'm pretty new to this, but I have noticed a nice improvement over the E07K I was using.  It sounds like the soundstage opened up more, and it seems like the clarity improved a fair bit.  So far, I'm very satisfied with my purchase.


----------



## fenderf4i

It's not obvious on the Schiit site unless you're looking for it, but there is an optical Modi available now. I just ordered one to replace the Audioengine D1 that is hooked up to my Apple TV.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Which one would be a bigger step up in SQ, going from Modi to regular Bitfrost, or going from regular Bitfrost to Uberfrost?


----------



## Traum

^^ Modi to Bifrost


----------



## jaywillin

^^1+^^


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice to see an optical option vs USB for the Modi. I'm sure that will make a few people happy.


----------



## Byrnie

traum said:


> ^^ Modi to Bifrost


 
 +1000


----------



## Zojokkeli

Cool, thanks guys! I found an European vendor selling some of Schiit's products, and Bitfrost had quite nice price. Maybe I'll pair it with BH Crack, if/when I decide to get one.


----------



## Macmuffin

I have a question that maybe someone could answer here.
  
 Looking for input on how the Asgard 2 sounds with DT-880/600. I had a Magni, but sold it because it was a bit to bright when paired with the DT-880. IMO
  
 I have seen a few people say that the Asgard 2 is warmer sounding than the Magni.
  
 Any input would be appreciated.
  
 Thanks


----------



## cddc

How do you guys handle the Modi when not playing music - unplug the usb cable or leave it on?
  
 Vali comes with a switch, so just turn off the switch and it's easy. But Modi does not have a switch, and if you do not unplug the usb cable the light is always on...


----------



## LiteKirby

I had the Modi on 24/7, the light was always on but it was behind one of my monitors so it didn't get annoying or anything.
  
 That said, my Bifrost Uber arrived today, and I am very very happy I took the leap. I didn't think the difference would be that major, and maybe it's just placebo and hype, but I'm definitely in love with this thing. I'm pretty sure this Bifrost Uber + Asgard 2 is my endgame, or at the very least going to be my setup for a long long time to come.


----------



## ljperez84

Hi guys,
  
 Has any of you tried using a preamp with the valhalla? whay is your experience?
  
 for digital sources I'm planning to use
  
 Source -> Audio GD fun (as dac & SS preamp) -> Valhalla -> Cans
  
 and for the TT either
  
 a) TT -> DJPREII (phono amp) ->  Audio GD Fun (as SS preamp) -> Valhalla -> Cans
  
 or
  
 b) TT -> DJPREII (phono amp)  -> Valhalla -> Cans
  
 I'm wondering if a) is not too long? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 One of the advantages of going with a) is that I could still use the  FUN as the main amp for my grado's. I've read mixed opinions regarding the match of Grado's and the Valhalla. Also all the sources could be selected from the preamp (Apple tv, CD/DVD/BR/SACD player, TT, USB). Otherwise I must put splitters before the Valhalla.
  
  
 Valhalla and T70's on the way. Other headphones are HD650s and SR225i.
  
 What do you think?
  
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## cddc

litekirby said:


> I had the Modi on 24/7, the light was always on but it was behind one of my monitors so it didn't get annoying or anything.
> 
> That said, my Bifrost Uber arrived today, and I am very very happy I took the leap. I didn't think the difference would be that major, and maybe it's just placebo and hype, but I'm definitely in love with this thing. I'm pretty sure this Bifrost Uber + Asgard 2 is my endgame, or at the very least going to be my setup for a long long time to come.


 
  
 Congrats, hope you enjoy the uberfrost. much appreciate it if you could give some comparison between modi and uberfrost
  
 the light might be okay to me, i am more concerned about the heat and aging of components inside modi if letting it on 24/7


----------



## Spiral Out

cddc said:


> Congrats, hope you enjoy the uberfrost. much appreciate it if you could give some comparison between modi and uberfrost
> 
> the light might be okay to me, *i am more concerned about the heat and aging of components inside modi if letting it on 24/7*


 
 I wouldn't worry about the heat from the LEDs as they put out very little. I have a Headroom little headphone amp that has two LEDs on the front that are on whenever the amp is plugged in. There is no on/off switch on the unit so the LEDs have been on 24/7 for about 12 years. The amp still works great and the LEDs are as bright as ever.


----------



## fenderf4i

He means the heat of the components inside.


----------



## Spiral Out

fenderf4i said:


> He means the heat of the components inside.


 
 I guess I misunderstood what was being said. Either way the dac is going to produce very little heat. I'm sure if Schiit thought it was an issue they would have put an on/off switch on the Modi.


----------



## fenderf4i

I agree. I'm not sure how warm a Modi gets, but the Bifrost gets very warm. I leave it on 24/7 anyway.


----------



## Tuco1965

I turn off my gear when not using it, but I also warm everything up before listening. Once turned on for the day I let it run.


----------



## cddc

spiral out said:


> I guess I misunderstood what was being said. Either way the dac is going to produce very little heat. I'm sure if Schiit thought it was an issue they would have put an on/off switch on the Modi.


 
  
 Thanks very much for your opinions. You are right, I am a little bit concerned about the heat and aging of the components inside. It is not a big problem, otherwise Schiit would have added an on/off switch.
  
 Just curious to know how most of you guys do - unplug the usb cable or leave it on?


----------



## cddc

fenderf4i said:


> I agree. I'm not sure how warm a Modi gets, but the Bifrost gets very warm. I leave it on 24/7 anyway.


 
  
 Cool, but bifrost should be much easier to turn off, right, it comes with an on/off switch, so you don't need to plug&unplug anything.


----------



## cddc

tuco1965 said:


> I turn off my gear when not using it, but I also warm everything up before listening. Once turned on for the day I let it run.


 
  
 agreed, i also turn off the vali when not listening, but the modi has no on/off switch, so not as easy as turning off the vali


----------



## Spiral Out

cddc said:


> Thanks very much for your opinions. You are right, I am a little bit concerned about the heat and aging of the components inside. It is not a big problem, otherwise Schiit would have added an on/off switch.
> 
> Just curious to know how most of you guys do - unplug the usb cable or leave it on?


 
 I shut my computer down at night but it's on most of the day. I have an ODAC which also does not have a power switch. I really don't worry about having it on all the time, if it got fairly warm I may think twice about leaving it on. I think you may want to consider shutting your computer down when your not going to be using it for many hours as a possible solution.
  
 I don't think I would unplug the USB cable more than I had to though. The wear and tear on the jack from constant unplugging would be far worse than just leaving it on all the time IMO.


----------



## Tuco1965

I keep my Magni and Modi in a tote with their cables when I'm not using them. I set them up various places around my house when I want to use them. The Modi is usually connected to my iPad as the source.


----------



## cddc

spiral out said:


> I shut my computer down at night but it's on most of the day. I have an ODAC which also does not have a power switch. I really don't worry about having it on all the time, if it got fairly warm I may think twice about leaving it on. I think you may want to consider shutting your computer down when your not going to be using it for many hours as a possible solution.
> 
> I don't think I would unplug the USB cable more than I had to though. The wear and tear on the jack from constant unplugging would be far worse than just leaving it on all the time IMO.


 
  
 instead of shutdown i normally put my mac in sleep at night, coz it's much faster to boot up. but the shortcoming is that usb is still on
  
 like you said i dont like plug and upplug often either, which leads to wear and tear on the jack


----------



## brokenthumb

Couldn't you plug the Modi into some kind of surge protector and use the switch on that to turn the Modi on and off.


----------



## Spiral Out

brokenthumb said:


> Couldn't you plug the Modi into some kind of surge protector and use the switch on that to turn the Modi on and off.


 
 The Modi is USB powered so that wouldn't work unfortunately.


----------



## HPiper

Getting the urge to upgrade my Little Dot Mk 3. Was thinking either a Vali or a Valhalla. Have any of you had to chance to listen to a Mk3 and either of those amps? I am thinking probably Valhalla as it is a very similar amp to the Mk 3 in design and everything.


----------



## brokenthumb

spiral out said:


> The Modi is USB powered so that wouldn't work unfortunately.


 
  
 Sorry, didn't realize.  When I had the Meridian Explorer it was also USB powered and I left it on all the time.


----------



## amnesiac75

I have a question about my valhalla , have any of you noticed a slight hum from the tubes not through the headphones but from the tubes themselves. The reason I ask is because it doesn't always happen some days it's quiet and others it hums volume to time the amp is on has no effect. Other than that the amp sounds great hum or not and I can't hear it with phones on.


----------



## Byronb

This article may explain your issue:
  
http://www.kk5dr.com/Tubes.html


----------



## HPiper

byronb said:


> This article may explain your issue:
> 
> http://www.kk5dr.com/Tubes.html


 

 Wow I didn't know even half that about tubes, very interesting read, thanks for that!


----------



## ljperez84

hpiper said:


> Getting the urge to upgrade my Little Dot Mk 3. Was thinking either a Vali or a Valhalla. Have any of you had to chance to listen to a Mk3 and either of those amps? I am thinking probably Valhalla as it is a very similar amp to the Mk 3 in design and everything.


 

 If I'm not mistaken the Little Dot Mk 4 and Mk 4 SE are the ones on the same league that the Valhalla. Can't tell about the differences since I've never heard a little dot amp.
  
 What cans are you planning to use? Both Valhalla and LD MK IV are aimed to high impedance cans.
  
 An all-in-one solution would be something hybrid like the Schiit Lyr . Vali is also hybrid but it's on a totally different league, and changing the tubes when they die will be a PITA, IMHO.
  
 From what I know Asgard matches really well with low impedance cans such as Grados.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I use a 4se and Vali and prefer the latter with most of my phones. The 4se only really sings with >300 ohm phones where as the Vali works with many more of my phones well.


----------



## amnesiac75

Thanks for the link Byronb alot of good info about tubes. So far I've been using the gungnir-valhalla-hd650 combo for about a month and it sounds great so tonight I hooked up my vali to my gungnir for the first time (was using modi-vali before I bought the gungnir-valhalla) and although I thought the vali was better out of the gungnir than the modi it still wasn't as good as the modi-valhalla for my hd 650s . As far as the gungnir goes it was a noticeable improvement over the modi but the modi-valhalla is a good starting point for any hd-650 owners not looking to spend too much.


----------



## Byronb

Indeed the Valhalla is a wonderful amp.


----------



## latimerfripp

My Schiit Vali. using a MF M1DAC for now, thinking about buying a Lyr amp and Uber USB Bifrost(anyone can compare between the bifrost and the m1dac by the way?)


----------



## tuna47

Never heard the m1 but really enjoy the bifrost uber and lyr combo with the HE 500


----------



## TeskR

My Lyr arrived today and I have to say first impressions are very good, using my AT A900Xs on it until my Alpha Dogs arrive tomorrow and it already sounds great with these HPs.

 Quite happy


----------



## Rossliew

hpiper said:


> Getting the urge to upgrade my Little Dot Mk 3. Was thinking either a Vali or a Valhalla. Have any of you had to chance to listen to a Mk3 and either of those amps? I am thinking probably Valhalla as it is a very similar amp to the Mk 3 in design and everything.


 
 The LD Mk 3 uses different tubes from the Valhalla. I have the Mk 3 with my HD600/800 but have not heard the Valhalla with either of my cans. Thus far, for the price, i find the LD to be quite an enjoyable listen with punchy sound and sweet mids. And tube rolling is a joy with lots of good support/examples in the Little Dot Tube Rolling thread. It is powerful enough to drive my HD800 as well.
  
 Having said that, the Vali is a more versatile amp, able to power most low and high impedance headphones. I use it with my HD800 as well, to great effect. Very musical although (depending on the source) the dynamics can feel a little compressed. With my main rig i.e. analog front end of basic Project RPM1.3 TT and DIY phono stage, the sound reproduced is pretty robust. Similarly with my Unison Research tubed CDP. However, when played on my desktop rig i.e. Acer laptop via Modi into the Vali, it may sound a little lean (on the HD800) but that could be also due to the recording itself. All in all, the Vali provides a musically satisfying listen and with that kinda pricing, you can't go wrong.


----------



## latimerfripp

I can get the Schiit Lyr and the Violectric v200 for the same price, using LCD 2 REV2. will be using Schiit UberUSB Bifrost DAC.
 anyone can compare between the two amps? thanks


----------



## nailbunny7

I owned the Lyr for a bit and tried the Violectric at a show a few times, but I prefer the Lyr out of the two for LCD2s (which I used with my Lyr). They were practically designed to be used with Audez'e. I also preferred the tube rolling capabilities to customize the sound to my liking.
  
 On another note (hoping Jason will chime in here if it will), I would like to buy the Valhalla for my desktop at home, but the only thing preventing me from doing so is a lack of preamp outputs, because I would like to run it to my power amp to power my desktop speakers.


----------



## icc900

Helpful...Thanks for sharing.


----------



## nailbunny7

Yeah, sorry I couldn't be more specific about my impressions, the meet was some time ago (almost a year, actually). I was rocking the Mjolnir/ Audez'e combo since, and it is by far my favourite combo with Audez'e in that general price range. The aggressiveness of Mjolnir really complements those cans


----------



## BeyerMonster

latimerfripp said:


> I can get the Schiit Lyr and the Violectric v200 for the same price, using LCD 2 REV2. will be using Schiit UberUSB Bifrost DAC.
> anyone can compare between the two amps? thanks


 
 Keep in mind that this is a Schiit thread. You might get more objective opinions in the LCD2 threads.


----------



## LiteKirby

cddc said:


> Congrats, hope you enjoy the uberfrost. much appreciate it if you could give some comparison between modi and uberfrost
> 
> the light might be okay to me, i am more concerned about the heat and aging of components inside modi if letting it on 24/7




Initial differences were that the Bifrost wasn't as bright as the Modi, and the Bifrost clicks as its optical. Not to say that the Modi is bright, but comparatively it is. 

Bass sounds a tad nicer as well, still have a while to go before I can give full comparsons


----------



## cddc

litekirby said:


> Initial differences were that the Bifrost wasn't as bright as the Modi, and the Bifrost clicks as its optical. Not to say that the Modi is bright, but comparatively it is.
> 
> Bass sounds a tad nicer as well, still have a while to go before I can give full comparsons


 
  
 Cool, thanks a lot. I would bet bifrost should provide more details, at least its price suggest so.
  
 But no idea what other improvements are. Glad to hear bass is nicer.


----------



## noobandroid

can the magni drive the T1? stay tuned and I'll give the answer in 10 hours from now


----------



## latimerfripp

Got the USB UBER Bifrost today.
  
 it sucks living outside the USA. paid about 250$ for custom fees..
 Going to buy a new amp soon, thinking about the Schiit LYR or maybe the Violectric V200 that I can get at the same price second hand.


----------



## hodgjy

latimerfripp said:


> Got the USB UBER Bifrost today.
> 
> it sucks living outside the USA. paid about 250$ for custom fees..
> Going to buy a new amp soon, thinking about the Schiit LYR or maybe the Violectric V200 that I can get at the same price second hand.


 
 I just picked up the TEAC HA-501, which the Bifrost Uber is feeding.  So far, it's a wonderful combo.  Worth investigating as well.


----------



## joebobbilly

latimerfripp said:


> Got the USB UBER Bifrost today.
> 
> it sucks living outside the USA. paid about 250$ for custom fees..
> Going to buy a new amp soon, thinking about the Schiit LYR or maybe the Violectric V200 that I can get at the same price second hand.


 

 Are you in Canada? If so, you should consider looking to headphonebar.com
  
 They are an authorized Schiit distributor. They're a tad slow in getting stock, but hey... worth it to avoid the customs.


----------



## fenderf4i

joebobbilly said:


> Are you in Canada? If so, you should consider looking to headphonebar.com
> 
> They are an authorized Schiit distributor. They're a tad slow in getting stock, but hey... worth it to avoid the customs.


 
  
  
 I always order direct from Schiit. I've found that if I choose a Fedex shipping option, I get hit hard with customs fees. If I choose USPS, I never get charged any customs fees.


----------



## latimerfripp

joebobbilly said:


> Are you in Canada? If so, you should consider looking to headphonebar.com
> 
> They are an authorized Schiit distributor. They're a tad slow in getting stock, but hey... worth it to avoid the customs.


 
 Nope. I'm from Israel. lot's of stereo shops here but they don't know schiit..


----------



## Rossliew

The only time I was lucky not to be taxed was when I ordered the Asgard 2 and the Modi/Vali combo. My recent Lyr purchase got taxed. So did my Valhalla a couple of years ago. Maybe if Schiit was willing to help under-declare the prices, it might not be so painful for us. Just a thought.


----------



## nailbunny7

rossliew said:


> The only time I was lucky not to be taxed was when I ordered the Asgard 2 and the Modi/Vali combo. My recent Lyr purchase got taxed. So did my Valhalla a couple of years ago. Maybe if Schiit was willing to help under-declare the prices, it might not be so painful for us. Just a thought.


 
 But they won't, they do everything the proper and legal way


----------



## Rossliew

nailbunny7 said:


> But they won't, they do everything the proper and legal way


 
 Yeah, true that..just need some good luck when we order direct


----------



## Burock74

hodgjy said:


> I just picked up the TEAC HA-501, which the Bifrost Uber is feeding.  So far, it's a wonderful combo.  Worth investigating as well.


 
 Thinking to buy TEAC HA-501 . I have HE-500 so what do you think about using TEAC with HE-500 ?  Is that powerfull enough to feed HE-500 ?


----------



## hodgjy

burock74 said:


> Thinking to buy TEAC HA-501 . I have HE-500 so what do you think about using TEAC with HE-500 ?  Is that powerfull enough to feed HE-500 ?


 
  
 Yes, should have more than enough.  It puts out more than 2 W into 32 ohms.


----------



## cddc

joebobbilly said:


> you should consider looking to headphonebar.com


 
  
 The store does not carry all schiit models. It seems that it only carries lyr and bifrost.


----------



## joebobbilly

cddc said:


> The store does not carry all schiit models. It seems that it only carries lyr and bifrost.


 

 They used to carry Asgard + Mjolnir + Gungnir too. They may simply not have stock right now. If you're interested, I would email them to see if they will be willing to put in an order.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'd call them.  They were great to deal with when buying my Bifrost.


----------



## wahsmoh

macmuffin said:


> I have a question that maybe someone could answer here.
> 
> Looking for input on how the Asgard 2 sounds with DT-880/600. I had a Magni, but sold it because it was a bit to bright when paired with the DT-880. IMO
> 
> ...


 
 I have a 250 ohm DT880 paired with the Asgard 2 and Uberfrost. A2 + Uberfrost is warmer than neutral but still detailed that sounds like it's outside of your head(in a good way). I don't know about the 600 ohm but I power my DT880s on high gain at 11 o clock on the volume knob.
  
 Overall the Asgard 2 and Uber combo with the DT880 takes some of the edge off the DT880s treble but doesn't "smooth" out the sound like the McIntosh D100 did that I listened to with my DT880s. It doesn't image quite as well as the D100 but it is more accurate in other ways such as the high frequencies (Bifrost Uber)


----------



## PTom

I'm wondering how much (if any) of the popularity of Schiit on Head Fi people think is to do with their products being made in the USA or parts being mostly sourced in the USA? 
  
 Their website seems to really emphasise this. I'm guessing the majority of Head Fi members are also from the states so is this a big effect? In other words if Schiit was a chinese company with identical products/quality/warranty/customer service/price is it likely to be as popular as it is now?


----------



## Byronb

It is a huge factor for me. That being said, the sound is the thing...


----------



## PTom

So that begs the question, how much extra (as a %) would you be willing to pay for a made in USA Schiit vs a made in China Schiit? 
  
 For example take the Mjolnir at $749. Would a $600 price tag Mjolnir made in China tempt you?


----------



## hodgjy

ptom said:


> So that begs the question, how much extra (as a %) would you be willing to pay for a made in USA Schiit vs a made in China Schiit?
> 
> For example take the Mjolnir at $749. Would a $600 price tag Mjolnir made in China tempt you?


 
  
 Not really.  If it needed service, how much would shipping to China cost?  Schiit has great customers service, and two of their DACs are upgradable.  That wouldn't be as possible if they were located in China.


----------



## Byronb

Me personally I am willing to pay a premium, but some of the stuff made in the USA borders on insanity and Jason and Mike have proven that it is insanity. So to answer your question, no I would not pay $600.00 for a Chinese made product if there was an American equivalent for $749.00.


----------



## john57

ptom said:


> So that begs the question, how much extra (as a %) would you be willing to pay for a made in USA Schiit vs a made in China Schiit?
> 
> For example take the Mjolnir at $749. Would a $600 price tag Mjolnir made in China tempt you?


 
 That question is kind of meaningless. You are assuming that China is always cheaper than USA. There are so many factors besides labor costs that determine the final cost of the product. The design, transportation, quality control and profit margin are some of the other factors. I look for value vs price and Schiit does quite well in my opinion. However it is up to you to decide what products is worthy of your consideration regardless where it is made.


----------



## PTom

No, it was a hypothetical question regarding identical products but one made in the USA and the other in China and the chinese product happens to be cheaper. I am not saying this is always the case in reality.


----------



## superjawes

It is appealing to me as I see many jobs getting shipped overseas to capitalize on cheap labor. However, your hypothetical question kind of doesn't work because the products would not be equal. Schiit's entire business model is to provide a high value product (high performance/low price tag) _with_ all of the customer service that comes along with a US based operation. The Chinese product probably wouldn't be cheaper, and if it was, it wouldn't have the customer service backing Schiit provides.

Basically, the "Made in the USA" stamp is just a bonus. The big reason we like Schiit is that everything comes together in a complete package without any real compromises.


----------



## Byronb

superjawes said:


> It is appealing to me as I see many jobs getting shipped overseas to capitalize on cheap labor. However, your hypothetical question kind of doesn't work because the products would not be equal. Schiit's entire business model is to provide a high value product (high performance/low price tag) _with_ all of the customer service that comes along with a US based operation. The Chinese product probably wouldn't be cheaper, and if it was, it wouldn't have the customer service backing Schiit provides.
> 
> Basically, the "Made in the USA" stamp is just a bonus. The big reason we like Schiit is that everything comes together in a complete package without any real compromises.


 
 +1


----------



## PTom

superjawes said:


> _with_ all of the customer service that comes along with a* US based operation*.


 
 OK, I see. I think this is where we have different ideas. For people from say Europe, this might not be an advantage. This is why my hypothetical question assumed identical products. I might not necessarily have convenient access to the customer service of a US based operation.


----------



## BobG55

If any of you are already aware of this then let me apologize in advance but I was browsing different online retailers & came upon this on Audioadvisor's site :
  
 http://www.audioadvisor.com/Schiit-Audio-Lyr-V2-Hybrid-High-Power-Headphone-Amp/productinfo/SCLYRV2/#.U2RPB6XIrUQ
  
 It seems as if Schiit is coming out with a Lyr v2 soon.


----------



## john57

V2 $10 more?
  
 Who let the cat out of the bag?


----------



## Zojokkeli

ptom said:


> OK, I see. I think this is where we have different ideas. For people from say Europe, this might not be an advantage. This is why my hypothetical question assumed identical products. I might not necessarily have convenient access to the customer service of a US based operation.




I'm from Europe and I certainly don't benefit from Schiit's upgradability or services, so if the product quality was identical, had similar marketing flare, and as good reputation, I'd go with Chinese Schiit. I mostly ended up with Schiit because of their good reputation and attitude, and funny-as-hell marketing. 
But if there was European Schiit I'd definitely go with them, given they had similar pricing compared to the real Schiit.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

I was attracted by US manufacture. I always try and choose UK first (not relevant here), After that any US / EU manufacture is my preference. I go out of my way to try not to buy from certain countries so yes even from a UK buyer I was attracted by how the guys were doing this at Schiit. .


----------



## reddog

Hmm the audiophile in me screams yes as my wallet screams no.


----------



## Zojokkeli

bobg55 said:


> If any of you are already aware of this then let me apologize in advance but I was browsing different online retailers & came upon this on Audioadvisor's site :
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/Schiit-Audio-Lyr-V2-Hybrid-High-Power-Headphone-Amp/productinfo/SCLYRV2/#.U2RPB6XIrUQ
> 
> It seems as if Schiit is coming out with a Lyr v2 soon.


 
 I was thinking about BH Crack for my 650's, but if this is true, I might reconsider.


----------



## TeskR

Lyr 2  are you for real haha? got my Lyr last week...


----------



## Saraguie

I'll say it. I like buyng American made products because I'm an American and want, like to support my fellow countrymen and businesses based here. I do buy products, of course, made from all over the world but given a choice.... It's made in the USA for me. And I'd pay somewhate extra too.


----------



## BeyerMonster

ptom said:


> I'm wondering how much (if any) of the popularity of Schiit on Head Fi people think is to do with their products being made in the USA or parts being mostly sourced in the USA?
> 
> Their website seems to really emphasise this. I'm guessing the majority of Head Fi members are also from the states so is this a big effect? In other words if Schiit was a chinese company with identical products/quality/warranty/customer service/price is it likely to be as popular as it is now?


 
  
 I wouldn't have purchased Schiit or Magnepan products if they didn't stand on their own merits. The fact that they do makes me proud to be an American, but I wouldn't do it if they weren't good products.
  
 Biggest factors are price, value, warranty, and mostly money-back guarantee(5% restocking fee is a no-brainer compared to dealer markups).
  
If the products were expensive, poor, or a poor value, the Made in the USA bit would not matter one bit.


----------



## radiojam

For me, with Schiit (and everything else head-fi) it's been 90% word of mouth.  That's the only thing that can take me from "huh, I wonder what that sounds like" to "I gotta have it."  And boy am I glad I have it


----------



## jchandler3

I enjoy the fact that Schiit is an American company. My whole family is full of entrepreneurs and business owners, so I generally appreciate the sentiment. 

More than that though, I enjoy Schiit's quality, value, level of customer service and blatant humanity. USA (F yeah) comes after that.


----------



## fenderf4i

Even being Canadian, buying from companies that are 100% US is important to me. All of the best stuff I own is made in the USA.


----------



## TranceDude

I'd like to share my experience with the Schiit Lyr. I decided to order one last December. I paid 450$ for the unit + 60$ for EU shipping + 150$ for import charges. This was the maximum acceptable cost for me and I was fine with it, at least I knew I will be getting something great, that will serve me for years and with many headphones. Oh man was I wrong...
  
 After 3 weeks I finally got my unit, it had beautiful black finish, with stock tubes I was very much looking forward to using. I set it up and plugged in my headphones to enjoy some music. I pretty much instantly noticed something was wrong with the sound. Every 30s or so there was slight crackling/ electrical sound coming from the right channel. This was driving me crazy, the amp was impossible to listen to. I wanted to check what the problem was, so I tried different headphones, different plugs, sources, I swapped the tubes, I even took it to the bathroom in case it was an electrical disturbance. None of it helped, the problem was the amp so I had to contact Schiit about it.
  
 They accepted my amp for a repair, but I had to pay for the shipping... After a couple of weeks they received my unit and repaired it very quickly. They did not want to say what was wrong and they already shipped it back (on their expense). 3 weeks later I got the repaired amp back. While putting the tubes together I noticed one of them looking very used, it was in bad condition. While inserting said tube there was a *crack*- the tube broke. I contacted Schiit about this and received the only positive experience in this mess - they apologized and sent me a replacement tube free of charge.
  
 It took 3 more weeks for the tube to finally reach me, I could now finally test the repaired amp. Unfortunately, the amp was not repaired at all, if anything it was worse. Sure, the original crackle was a bit less noticeable but there was a considerable amount of pink noise present at all times. I contacted Schiit about it asking for an explanation and a possible money-back. They accepted the money-back offer and added: "If you want to go that way," Yeah, as if I had a choice...
  
 So, couple of weeks after shipping the amp back, at my own cost, I contacted them asking if they received the unit. Turns out they did and they sent me my refund shortly after. A bit weird that they just happened to notice it after I contacted them, but whatever, at least I got my 450$ back.
  
 All in all, I lost 2 months and 24 days of not having a working product I ordered. I also lost 330$ in shipping and import cost.
  
 This is by far the worst experience I've had with any company ever and if you're deciding between Schiit and something else maybe go for that something else. Sometimes, Schiit is just exactly what it sounds like.


----------



## TontonJoK

Man ! what a bad experience !!

What did you get instead ??


----------



## TranceDude

tontonjok said:


> Man ! what a bad experience !!
> 
> What did you get instead ??


 
 Nothing yet. I'm sticking with my trusted Headstage Arrow for the time being.


----------



## commtrd

Wow. Bummer. My Mjolnir just died one day while listening to some Marconi and so sent it back along with the Gungnir to get the USB module upgrade performed at that time. Have not listened to them yet but hopefully all will be well. So far the performance aside from the amp going out has been exemplary. But I do think I would like to try a Taurus and Vega possibly or a GS-X MkII or maybe something else in the future.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

trancedude said:


> I'd like to share my experience with the Schiit Lyr. I decided to order one last December. I paid 450$ for the unit + 60$ for EU shipping + 150$ for import charges. This was the maximum acceptable cost for me and I was fine with it, at least I knew I will be getting something great, that will serve me for years and with many headphones. Oh man was I wrong...
> 
> After 3 weeks I finally got my unit, it had beautiful black finish, with stock tubes I was very much looking forward to using. I set it up and plugged in my headphones to enjoy some music. I pretty much instantly noticed something was wrong with the sound. Every 30s or so there was slight crackling/ electrical sound coming from the right channel. This was driving me crazy, the amp was impossible to listen to. I wanted to check what the problem was, so I tried different headphones, different plugs, sources, I swapped the tubes, I even took it to the bathroom in case it was an electrical disturbance. None of it helped, the problem was the amp so I had to contact Schiit about it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Please contact alex@schiit.com and we will refund your shipping costs. Import duties you should be able to claim back, as you no longer have the product.
  
 I remember Nick working on a black Lyr (there aren't too many of them), but I don't remember what was wrong with it, if anything. If it's an intermittent problem, it can sometimes simply be RF interference from a cellphone, which we usually can't replicate. If it's hiss, it could be bad tubes, or simply efficient headphones revealing the noise floor of the Lyr. What headphones were you using with it? Lyr simply isn't suitable for highly efficient headphones, I'm afraid.


----------



## TontonJoK

Well done !!
If Schiit audio does refund at least the 180 $ shipping it would be very kind !

It's rare to get that from anywhere else


----------



## TranceDude

jason stoddard said:


> I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Please contact alex@schiit.com and we will refund your shipping costs. Import duties you should be able to claim back, as you no longer have the product.
> 
> I remember Nick working on a black Lyr (there aren't too many of them), but I don't remember what was wrong with it, if anything. If it's an intermittent problem, it can sometimes simply be RF interference from a cellphone, which we usually can't replicate. If it's hiss, it could be bad tubes, or simply efficient headphones revealing the noise floor of the Lyr. What headphones were you using with it? Lyr simply isn't suitable for highly efficient headphones, I'm afraid.


 
  
 Hello, I just sent Alex an e-mail. Unfortunately the only way to claim the import duties back is to make temporary importation, which I of course didn't to as I didn't anticipate these problems (it's also not that simple).
  
 I thought it could be an interference as well, so I tried using the amp in different rooms around the house and my office, but the problem was consistently present. I don't believe it was the tubes either, as swapping them made no difference. I was using AKG Q701 and HiFiman HE-400 with it, both of which got great (and superb) combo reviews. That's why it was the perfect amp for me to buy.


----------



## TontonJoK

Is it right about lyr 2, what would be the change log ??


----------



## Maxvla

trancedude said:


> I'd like to share my experience with the Schiit Lyr. I decided to order one last December. I paid 450$ for the unit + 60$ for EU shipping + 150$ for import charges. This was the maximum acceptable cost for me and I was fine with it, at least I knew I will be getting something great, that will serve me for years and with many headphones. Oh man was I wrong...
> 
> After 3 weeks I finally got my unit, it had beautiful black finish, with stock tubes I was very much looking forward to using. I set it up and plugged in my headphones to enjoy some music. I pretty much instantly noticed something was wrong with the sound. Every 30s or so there was slight crackling/ electrical sound coming from the right channel. This was driving me crazy, the amp was impossible to listen to. I wanted to check what the problem was, so I tried different headphones, different plugs, sources, I swapped the tubes, I even took it to the bathroom in case it was an electrical disturbance. None of it helped, the problem was the amp so I had to contact Schiit about it.
> 
> ...



I'm assuming you are not in the US, based on the delivery times and import duties. Your decision to purchase a product internationally means you will wait a long time for deliveries. This is not the fault of Schiit. This is something you agreed to when buying internationally. Besides the actual shipping taking longer there's the time spent in customs waiting for approval. This is all out of Schiit's control. Regarding return shipping being at your expense, this is standard practice, and I can't believe you were actually surprised by it.

You say Schiit attempted repair of the unit very quickly and sent it back. Then you say they later sent a tube when you contacted them, this being the only positive experience, when it clearly wasn't based on a quick communication and turn around on the repair prior, in addition to the no hassle refund when they received the amp. Notice you only gave them only 2 weeks to get the unit back before contacting about the refund, yet it took 3 weeks, both times, to receive items, yourself.

So no, this is not the worst experience you've ever had with a company. Whatever the problem with the amp, it seems to have been a dud, or not in agreement with your power/interference/whatever. The experience with the company, however, could not have been better. The aggravation in this case, I think, is due to the extended distance and thus time. Again we go back to where you agreed to this when purchasing a foreign product. International product support takes a long time, so you have to weigh that in your decision to buy in the first place. Had you been in the US or near a Schiit distributor, the wait time would have been less, and the shipping cost would have been significantly less (or perhaps free if dealing with a local distributor).

It's great, for you, that Jason is refunding your shipping costs. He's bailing you out on the risk you took. If I were you, in the future, I'd be looking for products local or at least regional before shopping halfway around the world.


----------



## TontonJoK

Why so much tubes amp from many companies in the world are affected by hiss or noise floor ??

For me it's a better selling point than over powered gear that claims to handle stuffs like HE 6


----------



## TontonJoK

maxvla said:


> . If I were you, in the future, I'd be looking for products local or at least regional before shopping halfway around the world.




Getting a product from around the world is a pure pleasure !!

When something goes wrong it's a pure hassle !!

Happily it doesn't happen that much


----------



## BeyerMonster

trancedude said:


> I also lost 330$ in shipping and import cost.


 
 Where do you live? Aren't import taxes something that can be refunded if you don't end up keeping an item? I would imagine paying something like an import tax on say a defective Ferrari would be ridiculously expensive and not something that should be incurred by anyone, regardless of income level.
  


jason stoddard said:


> I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Please contact alex@schiit.com and we will refund your shipping costs.


 
 Wow. That's going above and beyond. Now Jason and co are in the red for not actually selling you something.
  
 *EDIT* Fix typo and read farther in the thread.


----------



## jchandler3

I totally understand that it was a frustrating experience, but I'm with Maxvla that it's really not Schiit's fault, rather crappy circumstances. Schiit tried everything to make it right. I'd say accept Jason Stoddard's generous (and wholly unnecessary) offer to cover shipping costs and call it a day. 

Honestly, especially after Jason's offer, I'm now 100% sold on the Rag. What a stand up company. Come onnnnn paycheck.


----------



## Tuco1965

Awesome service Jason. Thumbs up!


----------



## Nic Rhodes

This is why I support companies like this in preference, their ''ethic'' is right as opposed to other companies / countries,


----------



## TranceDude

maxvla said:


> I'm assuming you are not in the US, based on the delivery times and import duties. Your decision to purchase a product internationally means you will wait a long time for deliveries. This is not the fault of Schiit. This is something you agreed to when buying internationally. Besides the actual shipping taking longer there's the time spent in customs waiting for approval. This is all out of Schiit's control. Regarding return shipping being at your expense, this is standard practice, and I can't believe you were actually surprised by it.


 
  
 No, I'm not from the US, I am from EU. When I said that: "After 3 weeks I finally got the amp," I meant that I was excited to get it - just a week before my new HiFiman HE-400 arrived and I was really excited to try out the combo. I'm sure you can understand that. You're right, I was surprised about the return shipping being my responsibility as it couldn't have possibly been my fault the amp wasn't working.
  


maxvla said:


> You say Schiit attempted repair of the unit very quickly and sent it back. Then you say they later sent a tube when you contacted them, this being the only positive experience, when it clearly wasn't based on a quick communication and turn around on the repair prior, in addition to the no hassle refund when they received the amp. Notice you only gave them only 2 weeks to get the unit back before contacting about the refund, yet it took 3 weeks, both times, to receive items, yourself.
> 
> So no, this is not the worst experience you've ever had with a company. Whatever the problem with the amp, it seems to have been a dud, or not in agreement with your power/interference/whatever. The experience with the company, however, could not have been better. The aggravation in this case, I think, is due to the extended distance and thus time.


  

 I'm sorry but it's hard for me to talk about a fast repair being a good experience when the unit is still not working. A good experience would be them explaining what was wrong with it/ what they fixed, or in this case, telling me they can't find a fault and can offer me a refund. Instead they didn't even reply when I asked them that exact question. I also can't say the refund was a good experience when I got back less than 60 cents of a dollar I spent.
 Also, I was just pointing out it's a bit strange they just happened to receive my package right after I sent them an e-mail asking about it. I got my refund, so I'm not blaming anybody, just mentioning.
  
 Quote:


maxvla said:


> Again we go back to where you agreed to this when purchasing a foreign product. International product support takes a long time, so you have to weigh that in your decision to buy in the first place. Had you been in the US or near a Schiit distributor, the wait time would have been less, and the shipping cost would have been significantly less (or perhaps free if dealing with a local distributor).



  
 You're missing my point. The problem weren't all the costs and the waiting, it was the fact that I didn't get what I wanted - an amp to power my 2 headphones and any new ones in the near future.
  


maxvla said:


> It's great, for you, that Jason is refunding your shipping costs. He's bailing you out on the risk you took. If I were you, in the future, I'd be looking for products local or at least regional before shopping halfway around the world.


  

 Unfortunately there's no such local products, most of my audio equipment comes from abroad, if it is sold locally the price is usually unreasonably higher. Small market.
  
  
 Anyway, I'd just like to say all I wanted was to post some honest feedback of what happened, I didn't expect others to get so fixated on the shipping aspect of all this, it's about the amp.


----------



## fenderf4i

If that was the worst experience I'd ever had with a company, I'd be pretty happy. The way they handled it is WHY I will continue to purchase from Schiit.


----------



## Maxvla

trancedude said:


> Anyway, I'd just like to say all I wanted was to post some honest feedback of what happened, I didn't expect others to get so fixated on the shipping aspect of all this, it's about the amp.



It's clear, by your initial post, that the time and expense was the majority of your complaint, as it comprised most of your post. Sentences such as below are at odds with your recent statement, a sentence important enough for its own paragraph.



			
				TranceDude said:
			
		

> All in all, I lost 2 months and 24 days of not having a working product I ordered. I also lost 330$ in shipping and import cost.




If most of your post is about shipping time and costs, we're going to think that is what you were most concerned with. If it was about the amp, the post would have been shorter and to the point. "I ordered a Lyr, it had a problem. I sent it in for repair, it still had the problem. They sent me a tube, still had the problem. I got a refund." Something to that affect. This is quite a different tone than your post, and if the original post had been on topic, nobody would have had a problem with it. No company is perfect in that it never makes a bad product. You were simply the 'lucky' one who got the dud, and the company made good on the refund. All the extra shipping time and cost is an unfortunate consequence of lack of access.

It's odd that you posted a 'review' of the product when you never had a fully functional product with which to create a review. I've received products to review before that had problems, but I never reviewed them until the error was fixed, or a solution had been found to fix it afterwards, all while in constant contact with the company and/or distributor.


----------



## TontonJoK

putting apart the noise issue, how was the combo ??




trancedude said:


> Anyway, I'd just like to say all I wanted was to post some honest feedback of what happened, I didn't expect others to get so fixated on the shipping aspect of all this, it's about the amp.


----------



## TontonJoK

I would have been very disappointed in his case also !!

If he liked the combo he should be very frustrated

Nice reaction from Schiit


----------



## paradoxper

Without him clarifying whether or not this was his first amp, etc, who knows if the damn amp was 'defected' or whatever. More to the point, if the amp was a dud, that's tough. We've all sadly dealt with these things and
 it sounds like Schiit provided support the best to their ability. Even more, sounds like dude is just bitching
 to get Schiit in public and put up the refund, which is totally stupid. Living in a place where you constantly
 deal with import tax, etc, you should have known better and taken the proper steps to insure you got your 'full' refund.


----------



## tdockweiler

What happened to TranceDude's Lyr review? I thought it was a fair review.
 Most likely Schiit took care of him and he deleted it.
  
 I wish I could have found out why my Asgard 2 sounded so "off". Gave up trying. Maybe it's not apartment compatible. Tons of wireless crap in the area.
  
 Sometime I will try a Lyr through a distributor with no restocking fees. There is one just an hour away.


----------



## CRITICALSHOT

"*Hey, this Bifrost I got clicks! What’s up with that?*
 It’s just the muting relay, operating normally. We chose a relay rather than relying on the D/A chip’s soft mute, since it’s safer and less sonically invasive. You'll thank us when you accidentally send some Dolby Digital content down the line and your speakers _don't_ explode because of full-scale noise on the output."
  
 I am using the Panasonic DMP-BDT500 analog RCA output straight to the Valhalla.  I am listening to DTS-MA, DTS and DD all downmixed to stereo "surround encoded".  It all plays without a hitch.  If I hooked the Panasonic via toslink to the Bifrost would I get sound from all the aforementioned formats?


----------



## MtnSloth

criticalshot said:


> I am using the Panasonic DMP-BDT500 analog RCA output straight to the Valhalla.  I am listening to DTS-MA, DTS and DD all downmixed to stereo "surround encoded".  It all plays without a hitch.  If I hooked the Panasonic via toslink to the Bifrost would I get sound from all the aforementioned formats?


 
 No.  Bifrost is PCM only AFAIK.  [So only two-channel stereo]
  
 Oops.  I should have thought a little more before the terse reply. Check you manual and see if the Panasonic will output those formats via toslink.  It might be possible if your media is DVD-A or just plain old DVD (look for stereo mix tracks), but Blu-Ray . . . not likely.  Specifically, I'm pretty sure it won't do S/PDIF out for DTS-MA, kinda sure it won't do DTS and don't have a clue regarding DD.  Misguided assumptions regarding piracy typically forces stuff like DTS-MA to output digital via HDMI only (so HDCP can be in play).  At least this has been my experience with my OPPO BDP-95.


----------



## prsut

@TranceDude:
  
 here is link to schiit europe distributor.


----------



## CRITICALSHOT

mtnsloth said:


> No.  Bifrost is PCM only AFAIK.  [So only two-channel stereo]
> 
> Oops.  I should have thought a little more before the terse reply. Check you manual and see if the Panasonic will output those formats via toslink.  It might be possible if your media is DVD-A or just plain old DVD (look for stereo mix tracks), but Blu-Ray . . . not likely.  Specifically, I'm pretty sure it won't do S/PDIF out for DTS-MA, kinda sure it won't do DTS and don't have a clue regarding DD.  Misguided assumptions regarding piracy typically forces stuff like DTS-MA to output digital via HDMI only (so HDCP can be in play).  At least this has been my experience with my OPPO BDP-95.




OK. Maybe if I set the BD player to down convert dtsma and true HD to DTS and DD. I also can set the output to PCM so the player decodes it. I just don't want to drop the money and not be able to watch movies. I don't expect to get surround sound but stereo/something.


----------



## jchandler3

Aside from the Yggdrasil, what do you guys think the chances are of Schiit releasing a new DAC this year? Jason has hinted at a few new products coming out this year, unless I'm misinterpreting him.


----------



## StanD

jchandler3 said:


> Aside from the Yggdrasil, what do you guys think the chances are of Schiit releasing a new DAC this year? Jason has hinted at a few new products coming out this year, unless I'm misinterpreting him.


 
 How about the Optical Modi and the Passive Switch? Do they fit the bill? They are a small company so I wouldn't expect a large number of products to hit the pavement so soon.


----------



## jchandler3

stand said:


> How about the Optical Modi and the Passive Switch? Do they fit the bill?




Yeah, I'm aware of those but I'm thinking more along the lines of a Gungnir 2 or something. It seems like the Bifrost has inched pretty close in performance so I was thinking they might incorporate some of the new Yggdrasil tech into the Gungnir (a la Gungnir tech into Bifrost). 

Just speculating/daydreaming. Looking to pick up the Gungnir soon and didn't want to kick myself for not waiting.


----------



## reddog

Last week, I saw a blog that indicated the folk art schiit were coming up with a lyr V2, which should be out at the end of this month. I do not know if this is true or not. Hope it is for I am planning on getting a lyr for my beyerdynamic dt 880/ 600 ohm headphones.


----------



## Maxvla

Jason has said that the tech used in Yggdrasil doesn't lend itself to scaling down, so don't expect a Yggy-lite Gungnir 2.


----------



## StanD

jchandler3 said:


> Yeah, I'm aware of those but I'm thinking more along the lines of a Gungnir 2 or something. It seems like the Bifrost has inched pretty close in performance so I was thinking they might incorporate some of the new Yggdrasil tech into the Gungnir (a la Gungnir tech into Bifrost).
> 
> Just speculating/daydreaming. Looking to pick up the Gungnir soon and didn't want to kick myself for not waiting.


 
 Aha, an personal motive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Yes I hate it when a newer improved model comes out just after I bought something. They're still working on their two superduper over $1K products so I'd be surprised if they managed to squeeze out anything else this soon.


----------



## jchandler3

maxvla said:


> Jason has said that the tech used in Yggdrasil doesn't lend itself to scaling down, so don't expect a Yggy-lite Gungnir 2.




Ahh perfect, thanks!


----------



## superjawes

Both Bifrost and Gungnir are upgradable, so I doubt that they would introduce another DAC platform. Any refresh can go straight through the upgrade card approach.

You can have more amps in the lineup(/history) since you have solid state, tube, and hybrid options, and adding functionality can make for a good product refresh (Asgard 2 is an example).

Personally, I'd like to see them release a tube amp brother for Mjolnir for balanced headphones.

EDIT: Okay, maybe they could release a DAC that uses tubes. I hadn't thought about that.


----------



## joebobbilly

Mmmm I am indeed hoping for an upgrade to Gungnir sometime. Bifrost had the Uber upgrade. So I hope it'll be Gungnir's time soon. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


jchandler3 said:


> Looking to pick up the Gungnir soon and didn't want to kick myself for not waiting.


 
  
 Likely not a problem to get it now if the DAC fits your needs/budget. The upgrade will likely be something you could order later to add/install (like with the Uber for Bifrost). There is good reason they tout Bifrost and Gungnir as upgradeable and "futureproof" DACs.


----------



## kothganesh

superjawes said:


> ...........
> 
> Personally, I'd like to see them release a tube amp brother for Mjolnir for balanced headphones.
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

superjawes said:


> EDIT: Okay, maybe they could release a DAC that uses tubes. I hadn't thought about that.


 
  
 I believe Jason went on the record saying he'd never do that.


----------



## superjawes

hodgjy said:


> I believe Jason went on the record saying he'd never do that.


Wouldn't that be Mike's domain? 

But yeah, I don't really see a reason to do a tube DAC. I was just putting it out there as an option of what can be done with Schiit's lineup of DACs.


----------



## rev92

I got Asgard 1 with t'1 which the amp power just good enough, should i anyway think about upgrading to lyr?


----------



## TranceDude

maxvla said:


> It's clear, by your initial post, that the time and expense was the majority of your complaint, as it comprised most of your post. Sentences such as below are at odds with your recent statement, a sentence important enough for its own paragraph.
> If most of your post is about shipping time and costs, we're going to think that is what you were most concerned with. If it was about the amp, the post would have been shorter and to the point. "I ordered a Lyr, it had a problem. I sent it in for repair, it still had the problem. They sent me a tube, still had the problem. I got a refund." Something to that affect. This is quite a different tone than your post, and if the original post had been on topic, nobody would have had a problem with it. No company is perfect in that it never makes a bad product. You were simply the 'lucky' one who got the dud, and the company made good on the refund. All the extra shipping time and cost is an unfortunate consequence of lack of access.


 
  
 You're right, my initial feedback might have been a bit too much about the shipping costs instead of the amp itself. I hope you now understnd that my real problem was not recieving a fully working unit, not the costs associeted with that (although those were obviously an isse as well, nobody feels good about wastin 330$ and getting nothing in return).
  


maxvla said:


> It's odd that you posted a 'review' of the product when you never had a fully functional product with which to create a review. I've received products to review before that had problems, but I never reviewed them until the error was fixed, or a solution had been found to fix it afterwards, all while in constant contact with the company and/or distributor.


  
 But that's not how it went in my case, I never got the chance to review a fully working product.
  



tontonjok said:


> putting apart the noise issue, how was the combo ??


 
  
 I mostly listened to the Q701 + Lyr combo and it was superb. The already big soundstage expanded, separation was better and it overall just sounded great in every regard. Works from Quincy Jones and Keith Jarett's Koln concert really shinned for me. The He-400 didn't benefit that much from the amplification, it was better - more lively, with a bit more bass, but overall I'm not nearly as satisifeid with these headphones as I wanted to be.
  


paradoxper said:


> Without him clarifying whether or not this was his first amp, etc, who knows if the damn amp was 'defected' or whatever. More to the point, if the amp was a dud, that's tough. We've all sadly dealt with these things and
> it sounds like Schiit provided support the best to their ability. Even more, sounds like dude is just bitching
> to get Schiit in public and put up the refund, which is totally stupid. Living in a place where you constantly
> deal with import tax, etc, you should have known better and taken the proper steps to insure you got your 'full' refund.


 
  
 Oh come on. I have owned an amp before, I still do... I can't believe how my problems could be anything but the amp. And I'm most definetelly not bitching to get their attention. This matter was ended more than 2 months ago, if I wanted anything more I would've posted back then. Instead, I decided to wait and post honest feedback of how things went. I don't understand how some of you are so defensive about this.
  


tdockweiler said:


> What happened to TranceDude's Lyr review? I thought it was a fair review.
> Most likely Schiit took care of him and he deleted it.
> 
> I wish I could have found out why my Asgard 2 sounded so "off". Gave up trying. Maybe it's not apartment compatible. Tons of wireless crap in the area.
> ...


 
  
 The review is still there.
  


prsut said:


> @TranceDude:
> 
> here is link to schiit europe distributor.


 

 Thanks for letting me know, but I bought the Lyr last December. This website went live late January. I checked all my options and buying directly from Schiit was the only one, other distributers said they can't sell EU plug Lyr.

 Does anybody here have a working Lry with an EU plug, or any other Schiit product with an EU plug?
  
 Thank you to Schiit who refunded my shipping costs today!


----------



## Themorganlett85

Hey guys I plan on ordering me a Valhalla and an Uber Bifrost in the next week or so and I was wondering where do you guys get the awesome looking little feet that elevates it. I've seen some silver and some more of a gunmetal color but they all look awesome. Thank you for your help.


----------



## Koolpep

trancedude said:


> Thank you to Schiit who refunded my shipping costs today!


 
  
 Now, that's nice indeed.


----------



## CRITICALSHOT

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys I plan on ordering me a Valhalla and an Uber Bifrost in the next week or so and I was wondering where do you guys get the awesome looking little feet that elevates it. I've seen some silver and some more of a gunmetal color but they all look awesome. Thank you for your help.


 

 Good question.  My marbles and silly putty gunk looked cool until the Valhalla got hot...


----------



## hodgjy

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys I plan on ordering me a Valhalla and an Uber Bifrost in the next week or so and I was wondering where do you guys get the awesome looking little feet that elevates it. I've seen some silver and some more of a gunmetal color but they all look awesome. Thank you for your help.


 
  
 Partsexpress.  Search for Dayton Audio brand.


----------



## Themorganlett85

hodgjy said:


> Partsexpress.  Search for Dayton Audio brand.


 
 +1 Thank you


----------



## Fugue

Most tube headphone amps seem to suffer from a lack of low bass, according to some reviews I've read. Do Schiit amps have this issue, particularly the Lyr?


----------



## Defiant00

fugue said:


> Most tube headphone amps seem to suffer from a lack of low bass, according to some reviews I've read. Do Schiit amps have this issue, particularly the Lyr?




Although it depends on the tubes, in general, no.


----------



## TeskR

fugue said:


> Most tube headphone amps seem to suffer from a lack of low bass, according to some reviews I've read. Do Schiit amps have this issue, particularly the Lyr?




I have the Alpha Dogs with the Lyr on stock tubes, AD is considered quite flat but with the Lyr I can hear plenty of sub bass. Though I have heard with some other tubes the bass gets even better.


----------



## cddc

themorganlett85 said:


> +1 Thank you


 
  
 Have to say PartsExpress is really good.
  
 I still remember many many years ago I got my first t-amp from them, and their customer service was impressive. Highly recommended without hesitation!


----------



## kothganesh

trancedude said:


> ....................
> Does anybody here have a working Lry with an EU plug, or any other Schiit product with an EU plug?
> 
> ............


 
 I assume this is posed as a general question to all Headfiers.  I live in India where the voltage is 220V and I order my equipment from Schiit with the EU plug. I do add an adapter to the plug when I use it. Yes, I have a Lyr which has been working for more than a year now.
  
 Regards


----------



## StanD

rev92 said:


> I got Asgard 1 with t'1 which the amp power just good enough, should i anyway think about upgrading to lyr?


 
 Even more important, did you have an Asgard 1 with the ouput delay relay? If not I believe they can fix that for you, probably for free.
 Keep in mind that the sound signature of the Asgard and Lyr are very different, SS vs, Tubes. What do you prefer?


----------



## Dereen27

That's just crap! Who says Point to Point Wiring is better that PCB? You?! The only reason why PTP is expensive is because of the time and labor needed to construct or build the amp and is always heavier. PCB's on the other hand are easier to build and cheaper, a well constructed PCB can sound just as good or better like in the case of the WA3 vs. Valhalla... the latter absolutely blows the WA3 out of the water regardless of price and construction! We all have the psychological mindset that when we buy something it will naturally sound better, but that is not always the case.


----------



## fenderf4i

dereen27 said:


> That's just crap! Who says Point to Point Wiring is better that PCB? You?! The only reason why PTP is expensive is because of the time and labor needed to construct or build the amp and is always heavier. PCB's on the other hand are easier to build and cheaper, a well constructed PCB can sound just as good or better like in the case of the WA3 vs. Valhalla... the latter absolutely blows the WA3 out of the water regardless of price and construction! We all have the psychological mindset that when we buy something it will naturally sound better, but that is not always the case.


 
  
  
 Who were you responding to?


----------



## Eee Pee

It's good to go off with an irrelevant rant every now and then, even if no one cares.


----------



## Dereen27

fenderf4i said:


> Who were you responding to?


 
 telecaster


----------



## Dereen27

eee pee said:


> It's good to go off with an irrelevant rant every now and then, even if no one cares.


 
 I know right?


----------



## madwolfa

I'm thinking of switching the Musical Fidelity V-DAC on my big rig to a Gungnir with a fully balanced connection (my pre/power amps have XLR balanced inputs, but I'm using unbalanced RCA inputs now with a V-DAC). Does it make much sense? Would I notice any difference at all?


----------



## joebobbilly

Dangerous question to ask bout balanced... can sometimes be as taboo as the cable bit. Personally, if you can, I would take advantage of Schiit's 15-day money back guarantee, then you can let your ears decide


----------



## madwolfa

joebobbilly said:


> Dangerous question to ask bout balanced... can sometimes be as taboo as the cable bit. Personally, if you can, I would take advantage of Schiit's 15-day money back guarantee, then you can let your ears decide


 
  
 Well, I guess the main question was... would I notice a difference between V-DAC and Gungnir. I realize I wouldn't hear much difference from the input type alone..


----------



## Tuco1965

madwolfa said:


> Well, I guess the main question was... would I notice a difference between V-DAC and Gungnir. I realize I wouldn't hear much difference from the input type alone..


 
 I think you are the only one who can state whether or not you will hear a difference.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> I think you are the only one who can state whether or not you will hear a difference.


 
  
 That's true.. I'm just looking for a reason to buy myself a new toy.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> That's true.. I'm just looking for a reason to buy myself a new toy.


 
 Since when do you need a reason? OK, you want a reason, "Because." That works for me.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Since when do you need a reason? OK, you want a reason, "Because." That works for me.


 
  
 To hell with a reason.. Ka-ching.. *wife screams*


----------



## kothganesh

madwolfa said:


> That's true.. I'm just looking for a reason to buy myself a new toy.



Ok, I'll be happy to push you over the edge. The Gungir happens to be a terrific DAC with a very good USB implementation. Not the greatest in detail retrieval but very nice extensions low and high.


----------



## madwolfa

OK, I have decided to complete my headphones Schiit stack first - Bifrost Uber USB coming my way now.


----------



## commtrd

My Gungnir seems to provide what I would say is articulate detail retrieval and now that I have gotten the new USB module installed is very nice. HOWEVER I have not auditioned any other dacs so take that with a grain of salt. For what it's worth etc. Running balanced throughput over Silver Widow to LCD3s. For the money spent I think it would be kind of difficult to do better. Obviously when rising up the food chain and getting into the really expensive components the SQ will get better but at this price level I am really happy with my system. Really recommend getting the USB upgrade BTW. With JRiver 19 all data transfers are just really clean; I can really tell the difference.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> OK, I have decided to complete my headphones Schiit stack first - Bifrost Uber USB coming my way now.


 
 You will not be dissapointed, it's good Schiit. The USB implementation seems to be spot on. The Windoze drivers that Schitt supplies (download) works well and has some interesting enhancements found in their properties. If you need to boost bass, that can be found there, freq and level.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> You will not be dissapointed, it's good Schiit. The USB implementation seems to be spot on. The Windoze drivers that Schitt supplies (download) works well and has some interesting enhancements found in their properties. If you need to boost bass, that can be found there, freq and level.


 
  
 I see they also have native USB ASIO implementation, which is nice. WASAPI has always been a bit quirky.


----------



## Byronb

madwolfa said:


> That's true.. I'm just looking for a reason to buy myself a new toy.


 
 Let me just say...I heard a difference.


----------



## StanD

byronb said:


> Let me just say...I heard a difference.


 
 You could hear his wife yelling at him? So could I.


----------



## CJs06

byronb said:


> Let me just say...I heard a difference.


 
 I believe it. As did I when I tried a Gungnir/ Mjolnir combo with some Mad Dog Pros.
  
 A difference indeed.


----------



## Byronb

stand said:


> You could hear his wife yelling at him? So could I.


 





...Well there is that!


----------



## madwolfa

byronb said:


> ...Well there is that!


 
  
 No worries, I have it under control... now, on a quest to get a Gungnir... Need to take a strategic pause.


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> I'm thinking of switching the Musical Fidelity V-DAC on my big rig to a Gungnir with a fully balanced connection (my pre/power amps have XLR balanced inputs, but I'm using unbalanced RCA inputs now with a V-DAC). Does it make much sense? Would I notice any difference at all?
> 
> I had the MF VDAC in my main rig, and when I replaced it with Bifrost everything sounded better, more natural, etc.


I


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Many thanks to the kind folks on this thread, just took the plunge on greatly enhancing my current rig, HD650's, F17/E09K, ordered a Valhalla, it will be here Monday!!!! Just what the Doctor ordered to make my recovery from knee surgery (tomorrow) a pleasant one! 

Now for tube rolling advice?!?


----------



## Billheiser

wildcatsare1 said:


> Many thanks to the kind folks on this thread, just took the plunge on greatly enhancing my current rig, HD650's, F17/E09K, ordered a Valhalla, it will be here Monday!!!! Just what the Doctor ordered to make my recovery from knee surgery (tomorrow) a pleasant one!
> 
> Now for tube rolling advice?!?


 

Dude! I got my Vali to make a bedroom system for my sennheisers, because of knee surgery recovery too. It helped!


----------



## Tuco1965

So let me get this straight.  If you have a bad knee, the fix is a piece of Schiit?


----------



## Saraguie

tuco1965 said:


> So let me get this straight.  If you have a bad knee, the fix is a piece of Schiit?


 





  lol


----------



## Billheiser

tuco1965 said:


> So let me get this straight.  If you have a bad knee, the fix is a piece of Schiit?




Straight answer: Yes.


----------



## AladdinSane

My knee hurts.


----------



## Billheiser

apply some high value American electronics, stat!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Bill, how many surgeries? This is the big one, after 8 surgeries on my right knee (1 on my left, and a total hip due to avascuar necrosis) since my football days, I am getting a new one! Tuco1965, bad knees and various orthopedic injuries allow for extra quality listening time !

Now back to the thread, after trading communication with Nick at Schiit, I decided to bite the bullet and go with the Valhalla. Too many great reviews with the HD650's and my "wish list" HD800's (one can dream!). Lots of info on this thread, though any fresh perspectives on pairing with Senn's and tube rolling will be appreciated!


----------



## Billheiser

wildcatsare1 said:


> Bill, how many surgeries? This is the big one, after 8 surgeries on my right knee (1 on my left, and a total hip due to avascuar necrosis) since my football days, I am getting a new one! Tuco1965, bad knees and various orthopedic injuries allow for extra quality listening time !
> 
> Now back to the thread, after trading communication with Nick at Schiit, I decided to bite the bullet and go with the Valhalla. Too many great reviews with the HD650's and my "wish list" HD800's (one can dream!). Lots of info on this thread, though any fresh perspectives on pairing with Senn's and tube rolling will be appreciated!




Mine was a total knee replacement. 2 months out, I'm glad I did it. Doing PT everyday, helps progress and results a lot. 
Valhalla + Senns are a great Rx.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Total knee to compliment my total hip from last summer. Now if I can figure out a way to get my health insurance to cover my Schiit habit, lol!


----------



## reddog

Tell the insurance company you use your audiophile grade equipment help you recover from your surgery...the totality of the music help you cope with the pain. I hope you heal fast and be the music.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Will do, reddog! In the meantime I am the Grateful Dead, Ryan Adams, Bruckner, Miles and Art Blakey, becoming one with the music, Valhalla's tubes and HD650's!


----------



## gefski

wildcatsare1 said:


> Lots of info on this thread, though any fresh perspectives on pairing with Senn's and tube rolling will be appreciated!




IMO take your time getting used to the stockers. Schiit really voiced Valhalla nicely to the 6n1p, it's in no sense a "soft & round" tube amp. It's detailed, fast, and lively, with great texture. Since I have had tube speaker amps for years, I've got lots of NOS 6dj8/6922s around, but I always end up back with the Russkie 6n1p tubes in Valhalla. My favs now are some 1960s I got from Mr Tom and 1976 EVs from Cryoset.

Check out the Valhalla tube rolling thread, it's short & has some great info


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gefski said:


> IMO take your time getting used to the stockers. Schiit really voiced Valhalla nicely to the 6n1p, it's in no sense a "soft & round" tube amp. It's detailed, fast, and lively, with great texture. Since I have had tube speaker amps for years, I've got lots of NOS 6dj8/6922s around, but I always end up back with the Russkie 6n1p tubes in Valhalla. My favs now are some 1960s I got from Mr Tom and 1976 EVs from Cryoset.
> 
> Check out the Valhalla tube rolling thread, it's short & has some great info




Thanks, I also have some tubes in-house, but I will do some long and serious listening before I play my Schiit's tubes. 

Also, I ordered my unit at 4:00 PM CST today and just received an email saying my unit had shipped and will be here Saturday!!! Nick and Laura at Schiit are awesome! Incredible customer service.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Damn the audiophile gods for there not being a black Schiit Bifrost on their website. They tease me with the black Valhalla but I'm too ocd to have one silver and one black.


----------



## madwolfa

I'm so full of Schiit now, yay!!


----------



## Themorganlett85

Looks awesome, welcome to the club


----------



## madwolfa

themorganlett85 said:


> Looks awesome, welcome to the club


 
  
 Time to update the sig.


----------



## madwolfa

For now I can just say there's much more life in it, than in V-DAC. Brought the fun back...


----------



## Tuco1965

Get a nice long playlist cued up and enjoy.


----------



## PTom

Do people here generally buy expensive interconnects for the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack or just whatever is cheapest. Can you guys recommend something decent for me from Amazon UK? I'm not sure if I should go for the cheapest available. I don't want to be sacrificing on sound quality to save a few pounds.


----------



## madwolfa

ptom said:


> Do people here generally buy expensive interconnects for the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack or just whatever is cheapest. Can you guys recommend something decent for me from Amazon UK? I'm not sure if I should go for the cheapest available. I don't want to be sacrificing on sound quality to save a few pounds.


 
  
 Pair of Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 RCA cables for 30$ does it for me... Pair of their balanced Belden 1800F XLR cables set me back another 50$. 
I believe you don't need anything more expensive than that, but it's just me.
  
They also ship internationally and cut any length you want.
  
 http://www.bluejeanscable.com/international.htm
  
 IMO, they're the Schiit of the cable world.


----------



## Maxvla

Just get the PYST from Schiit?


----------



## Amictus

ptom said:


> Do people here generally buy expensive interconnects for the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack or just whatever is cheapest. Can you guys recommend something decent for me from Amazon UK? I'm not sure if I should go for the cheapest available. I don't want to be sacrificing on sound quality to save a few pounds.


 
 I have bought Profigold interconnect and Audioquest Cinnamon USB and toslink cables from Amazon UK, and am happy with them FWIW. I will upgrade in due course. I am using the Gungnir with the Lyr, however, and functioning single-ended, not balanced.
  
 Also - be careful about using the word 'cable'. The cable-denying thought police are out there. They will already have a file on you. If you spend more than £10, they will know and they will find you. Be very afraid.


----------



## ab initio

amictus said:


> I have bought Profigold interconnect and Audioquest Cinnamon USB and toslink cables from Amazon UK, and am happy with them FWIW. I will upgrade in due course. I am using the Gungnir with the Lyr, however, and functioning single-ended, not balanced.
> 
> Also - be careful about using the word 'cable'. The cable-denying thought police are out there. They will already have a file on you. If you spend more than £10, they will know and they will find you. Be very afraid.




Be very afraid, indeed! Don't waste your money on super fancy cables thinking it will change the sound. They look great and are usually built like tanks, so there's that.

If you are worried, send an email to schiit and ask what they recommend. They off PYST cables if you want to stack and need something short and convienent. Physics says that shorter cables are better and PYST are about as short as you can get outside of DIY.

Cheers


----------



## Amictus

Told you.


----------



## commtrd

I bought the Pyst and the USB they sell. Works fine. I did however buy a Silver Widow just to see if the hype was justified. Well it does sound great but honestly so did the cable that came with my LCD3s. So that was $500 that should have been saved towards a higher end amp and dac. Not that there is anything wrong with the stack I have now at all. Just that this cable stuff is seriously over-hyped IMHO.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My PYST arrived today, the remainder of the rig tomorrow and Saturday, I'll do some comparisons to what I have on hand, though they are all .5M vs 6 inches for the PYST.


----------



## Rossliew

commtrd said:


> I bought the Pyst and the USB they sell. Works fine. I did however buy a Silver Widow just to see if the hype was justified. Well it does sound great but honestly so did the cable that came with my LCD3s. So that was $500 that should have been saved towards a higher end amp and dac. Not that there is anything wrong with the stack I have now at all. Just that this cable stuff is seriously over-hyped IMHO.


 
 You may need to break in the cables quite a bit. I notice over time, cable sound does improve, IMO.


----------



## Byrnie

stand said:


> You will not be dissapointed, it's good Schiit. The USB implementation seems to be spot on. The Windoze drivers that Schitt supplies (download) works well and has some interesting enhancements found in their properties. If you need to boost bass, that can be found there, freq and level.


 
 Very true, Stan!


----------



## TontonJoK

I had a cheap usb cable to plug the dac to pc and was getting interferences 
If you want to buy a good fancy usb cable anyway the wireworld ultraviolet has good reviews 

We can argue on usb cable being useless because numerical with 0 and 1 but the Wireworld is well built and fit perfectly


----------



## Rossliew

Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable is affordable and sounds good to my ears. Or maybe even a Supra USB cable will do fine though it sounds noticeably warmer than the AQ.


----------



## BeyerMonster

ptom said:


> Do people here generally buy expensive interconnects for the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack or just whatever is cheapest. Can you guys recommend something decent for me from Amazon UK? I'm not sure if I should go for the cheapest available. I don't want to be sacrificing on sound quality to save a few pounds.


 
 You might want to look into getting custom cables built. Proaudiola and redco will make them build to order with Neutrik connectors and recording-studio grade wiring like Mogami. Tends to be cheaper than Blue Jeans Cable offerings for a very similar product. Can find all 3 of those companies via a quick google search. If you're in the UK there's probably something closer to you that does the same thing.
  
 And there's always Monoprice.


----------



## CJs06

beyermonster said:


> You might want to look into getting custom cables built. Proaudiola and redco will make them build to order with Neutrik connectors and recording-studio grade wiring like Mogami. Tends to be cheaper than Blue Jeans Cable offerings for a very similar product. Can find all 3 of those companies via a quick google search. If you're in the UK there's probably something closer to you that does the same thing.
> 
> And there's always Monoprice.


 
 It's hard to beat Monoprice's value. I pretty much go with Monoprice for all my cables now since I can get them cheaper and with free shipping on Amazon.


----------



## madwolfa

rossliew said:


> Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable is affordable and sounds good to my ears. Or maybe even a Supra USB cable will do fine though it sounds noticeably warmer than the AQ.


 
  
 I use a white printer cable - highly recommended! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Most common issue with USB connection is a potential ground loop hum, but it has nothing to do with the cable itself.
 I have no problem with DAC and PC connected to the same power outlet, but I have to use optical S/PDIF to connect
 the DAC in another room.


----------



## AK7579

cjs06 said:


> It's hard to beat Monoprice's value. I pretty much go with Monoprice for all my cables now since I can get them cheaper and with free shipping on Amazon.


 
 Not to burst your bubble, but purchasing directly from Monoprice tends to be cheaper even if you pay for shipping. I placed an order this morning from them for a total of $15.83. The same monoprice products on Amazon gave me a total of $24.93 with Prime. Of course it will all depend on what the items being purchased are so it is always good to check, but you will notice right away that the Amazon price per item is higher.


----------



## CJs06

ak7579 said:


> Not to burst your bubble, but purchasing directly from Monoprice tends to be cheaper even if you pay for shipping. I placed an order this morning from them for a total of $15.83. The same monoprice products on Amazon gave me a total of $24.93 with Prime. Of course it will all depend on what the items being purchased are so it is always good to check, but you will notice right away that the Amazon price per item is higher.


 
 Huh, never checked that before. Good to know, thanks.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My Schiit is here!!!





Letting everything burn in, though the Valhalla and Modi sound fantastic right out of the box, then evaluative listening! Taking musical request ✌️.


----------



## Billheiser

The War on Drugs, new album Lost in a Dream


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Will do Bill, as soon as I find it, BTW the post surgery pain killers are adding to the tube glow, good , for my Schiit!


----------



## reddog

Hope you heal fast, and the music help you deal with the pain sir


----------



## Billheiser

wildcatsare1 said:


> Will do Bill, as soon as I find it, BTW the post surgery pain killers are adding to the tube glow, good , for my Schiit!




Hope the surgery went well. You're posting on head fi and setting up your Valhalla, so it must have. Enjoy your Schiit, and your post surgical stool softeners too.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Bill, jamming The War on Drugs now, "Lost in a Dream", not bad at all, thx for the tip. 

Reddog, thx for the well wishes, the tube glow from the Valhalla is something special, ah uh nirvana.....


----------



## madwolfa

Third day with my brand new Bifrost Uber.... and Porcupine Tree mostly. It's getting better and better!!!
 I have finally made a proper 2.0 downmix of "Deadwing" DVD-Audio 5.1. It's gorgeous.. compared to CD!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



foobar2000 1.3.2 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
 log date: 2014-05-17 20:05:43
  
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Analyzed: Porcupine Tree / Deadwing (DVD-A Downmix)
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 DR13      -2.92 dB   -19.12 dB      9:49 01-Deadwing
 DR14      -2.42 dB   -18.50 dB      4:17 02-Shallow
 DR13      -4.14 dB   -20.27 dB      4:19 03-Lazarus
 DR14      -2.53 dB   -18.43 dB      4:38 04-Halo
 DR14      -2.61 dB   -19.90 dB     12:02 05-Arriving Somewhere But Not Here
 DR15      -2.33 dB   -21.54 dB      6:57 06-Mellotron Scratch
 DR12      -3.67 dB   -18.47 dB      3:44 07-Open Car
 DR14      -3.30 dB   -19.85 dB      7:42 08-Start of Something Beautiful
 DR14      -3.68 dB   -20.30 dB      6:14 09-Glass Arm Shattering
 DR10     -11.00 dB   -24.52 dB      3:04 10-Revenant (Bonus Track)
 DR13      -3.06 dB   -18.00 dB      5:02 11-Mother & Child Divided (Bonus Track)
 DR14      -7.14 dB   -24.41 dB      6:17 12-Half-Light (Bonus Track)
 DR13      -3.06 dB   -18.43 dB      5:02 13-Shesmovedon (Hidden Track)
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
 Number of tracks:  13
 Official DR value: DR13
  
 Samplerate:        48000 Hz
 Channels:          2
 Bits per sample:   24
 Bitrate:           1481 kbps
 Codec:             FLAC
 ================================================================================


----------



## Billheiser

Good info, nice DR, thanks!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Second day with my Valhalla, Modi - Tragedy in Tennessee, a bad tube on the Valhalla! Started with bit of tube rush in the left speaker, volume dropped, called it a night, switched tube positions, now right side. Still impressed with the Guys at Schiit, Nick responded to my email this morning (Sunday)! It will be fixed ASAP, more to come.


----------



## Tuco1965

Hopefully you'll be fixed back up and listening to tunes soon.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tuco1965 said:


> Hopefully you'll be fixed back up and listening to tunes soon.




Thanks Tuco, the Folks at Schiit will have me operational soon, though I am having a bit of buyers remorse, should I have gone for the Lyr instead, more power and versatility, just wondering?


----------



## TeskR

wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks Tuco, the Folks at Schiit will have me operational soon, though I am having a bit of buyers remorse, should I have gone for the Lyr instead, more power and versatility, just wondering?


 

 What sort of Headphones will you be driving with it?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Right now, HD650's so a good synergy, I suppose once the tube issue is resolved. Though I am interested in picking up something from Audeze or Hifiman in the near future, or maybe an HD800, maybe coveting to much power, I will know if the Valhalla cranks when the tube problem is resolved.


----------



## TeskR

wildcatsare1 said:


> Right now, HD650's so a good synergy, I suppose once the tube issue is resolved. Though I am interested in picking up something from Audeze or Hifiman in the near future, or maybe an HD800, maybe coveting to much power, I will know if the Valhalla cranks when the tube problem is resolved.



HD650 pairs well with the Lyr as well  never used a valhala though so can't really compare.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

teskr said:


> HD650 pairs well with the Lyr as well  never used a valhala though so can't really compare.




Tell us more about the Lyr-Alpha Dog combo?


----------



## Amictus

teskr said:


> HD650 pairs well with the Lyr as well
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 +1. A brilliant pairing.


----------



## TeskR

Well to be completely honest my ADs have only been used with my magni and Lyr so I can't really make any comparisons with other amps, that being said even with stock tubes the Lyr effortlessly drives them and makes for a very good pairing, mids in particular are very satisfying.

Edit: check out the AD thread, many people in there with Lyrs very satisfied with the combo.


----------



## hsubox

Have an Asgard 2 on the way because it isn't too expensive, and there are some days that tubes are just too finnicky


----------



## markm1

I've got an Asgard-2 with my Grado 225i. I'll be curious to your impressinons relative to your LD 1+. The LD seems to be muched loved by Grado owners.


----------



## hsubox

markm1 said:


> I've got an Asgard-2 with my Grado 225i. I'll be curious to your impressinons relative to your LD 1+. The LD seems to be muched loved by Grado owners.


 
  
 I'd be happy to do a small write up!
  
 I have Voshkods in my LD1+ at the moment, and want to put in a new opamp, but the main reason I'm wanting to add the A2 to the stable is that the LD1+ is very susceptible to RF and other interference (I'm assuming tubes in general.... some more than others, of course, but in general), and if I'm listening on my tablet with wifi on, there are definitely times you can hear it. The LD1+ does sound great, though.
  
 Will be interesting to see if the A2 matches my (brief) previous experiences with it.


----------



## madwolfa

Listening to a binaural recording on my HD600s first time in my life and it's completely mind blowing experience!!!
  

 http://www.amazon.com/Close-Ottmar-Liebert-Luna-Negra/dp/B0017SBG9S


----------



## markm1

hsubox said:


> I'd be happy to do a small write up!
> 
> I have Voshkods in my LD1+ at the moment, and want to put in a new opamp, but the main reason I'm wanting to add the A2 to the stable is that the LD1+ is very susceptible to RF and other interference (I'm assuming tubes in general.... some more than others, of course, but in general), and if I'm listening on my tablet with wifi on, there are definitely times you can hear it. The LD1+ does sound great, though.
> 
> Will be interesting to see if the A2 matches my (brief) previous experiences with it.


 
 I look forward to that. The A2 is all I know. I sometimes wonder of I'd want to add a tube or hybrid amp sell my A2 for something else. So far, I'm happy w/ what I'm hearing even though it's my only ref point.


----------



## hsubox

markm1 said:


> I look forward to that. The A2 is all I know. I sometimes wonder of I'd want to add a tube or hybrid amp sell my A2 for something else. So far, I'm happy w/ what I'm hearing even though it's my only ref point.


 
  
 I'll see how they are from both the Modi and Bifrost.


----------



## madwolfa

What do you guys think of optical outputs on expensive motherboards with codecs like Realtek ALC898? Is the clock still tied to 48 KHz there?
 Do they provide honest/bit-perfect 44/48/96/192 digital output there without some sort of internal resampling?
  
 I've sent the same question to Schiit folks, but thought you might know..


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

madwolfa said:


> What do you guys think of optical outputs on expensive motherboards with codecs like Realtek ALC898? Is the clock still tied to 48 KHz there?
> Do they provide honest/bit-perfect 44/48/96/192 digital output there without some sort of internal resampling?
> 
> I've sent the same question to Schiit folks, but thought you might know..


 
  
 I have never been able to get more than 44/48/96/192 through optical, but then it is ALC892


----------



## madwolfa

blackenedplague said:


> I have never been able to get more than 44/48/96/192 through optical, but then it is ALC892


 
  
 What do you mean by "more"?
  
 I have no issues with playback (on everything up to 24/96), but I was wondering if it's really bit-perfect out there assuming the codec's master clock fixed at 48 KHz.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Not sure how to answer that. I can't get 88.2 or 176 khz, and as for bitperfect the best we can hope for is that wasapi is working correctly. But in foobar I can still control volume which you would think shouldn't be possible


----------



## madwolfa

blackenedplague said:


> Not sure how to answer that. I can't get 88.2 or 176 khz, and as for bitperfect the best we can hope for is that wasapi is working correctly. But in foobar I can still control volume which you would think shouldn't be possible


 
  
 foobar2000 has a digital volume control, that's fine. as long as you keep it at 100%, all bits should be passing unaltered...
 I'm not so sure about the internal codec processing, though. Many codecs in past had 48 KHz as a main frequency and all outputs,
 including digital, were tied to that - x48, with everything x44.1 internally resampled, often poorly.


----------



## madwolfa

Answering my own question here.. looks like forced 44.1->48 conversion was an issue with older AC'97 codecs only. Newest "HD Audio" spec doesn't convert to 48 KHz anymore.


----------



## jaywillin

i get the audio advisor catalog today, and in it, was a vahalla v2, says it now has a gain switch, and pre outs,
 its not on the schiit, or AA website,
 if its true, it might be worth a try, i heard it for the first time at the nashville meet, it sounded great with grado's and my lcd-x


----------



## reddog

Thank for the information, it has made me wait and see what the folks at Schiit audio are coming out with. Schiit Audio has announced two very nice high end units, One is the ragnarok and the others the yggdrasil, both sound awesome . Earlier this month audio advisor also listed a lyr V2, so it seems good things are afoot at Schiit audio


----------



## jaywillin

reddog said:


> Thank for the information, it has made me wait and see what the folks at Schiit audio are coming out with. Schiit Audio has announced two very nice high end units, One is the ragnarok and the others the yggdrasil, both sound awesome . Earlier this month audio advisor also listed a lyr V2, so it seems good things are afoot at Schiit audio


 

 yeah, i'd seen the blurb about the lyr,  an improved version would be very cool !
 and i'm past ready for the rag and yggdrasil to be released


----------



## reddog

Yes the ragnarok and the yggdrasil sound great however it will take a long time to save up . But hopefully I will get to check them out at future headphone meet.


----------



## hodgjy

Schiit has changed their business model in the last year or so.  In the past, they announced products they were going to release, but sometimes didn't make expected deadlines.  Now, they only announce products once they are ready to roll out.  Their statement gear was announced before this policy change.


----------



## cddc

hodgjy said:


> Schiit has changed their business model in the last year or so.  In the past, they announced products they were going to release, but sometimes didn't make expected deadlines.  Now, they only announce products once they are ready to roll out.  Their statement gear was announced before this policy change.


 
  
 right way to go...i don't like companies say some product is coming up, and then it takes forever to see the product.


----------



## bonesnv

cddc said:


> right way to go...i don't like companies say some product is coming up, and then it takes forever to see the product.


 
  
 Agreed, Duke Nukem, comes to mind from my past as one of the most infamous pieces of vaporware, took 12 years and it was terrible. 
  
 Don't mind companies hinting as they get close to release, but early concept sharing almost never works out to be the same as the final product, so its somewhat counter productive in my opinion.  Especially once the hype train gets rolling, then you have to hear the train for years while waiting.


----------



## Billheiser

I like how Schiit sounds Norwegian and is from America. Schiit owners unite!


----------



## Currawong

Guys, for future reference, political discussion isn't allowed on Head-Fi. I don't think I have to explain why.


----------



## Taliesin

Anyone tried the lyr and Valhalla on the T1. Which sounded best?


----------



## hsubox

taliesin said:


> Anyone tried the lyr and Valhalla on the T1. Which sounded best?


 
 I've only heard the Lyr with the T1. Don't remember which DAC, but it sounded fantastic.


----------



## reddog

Please mighty wizards at Schiit Audio please release the Lyr v2 and Valhalla v2 soon. I am in a state of unbound anticipation, like a hype dog awaiting his or hers owner.


----------



## john57

I am curious what V2 features would be planned.


----------



## hodgjy

john57 said:


> I am curious what V2 features would be planned.


 
  
 Variable gain and pre-outs.  Probably better specs, like lower THD.


----------



## fenderf4i

It would be nice if the Lyr pre-outs worked like the ones on the Asgard 2.


----------



## Amictus

Day after day, the Fedex van goes past my house without dropping off a delivery of more Schiit. Day after day. Nothing. Perhaps it would help if I placed an order?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

amictus said:


> Day after day, the Fedex van goes past my house without dropping off a delivery of more Schiit. Day after day. Nothing. Perhaps it would help if I placed an order?




Ha ha , my new tubes came and my Valhalla is singing Bob Dylan so sweetly to me at the moment, so have my Schiit fix for this month. We'll see what June brings.


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> Day after day, the Fedex van goes past my house without dropping off a delivery of more Schiit. Day after day. Nothing. Perhaps it would help if I placed an order?


 
 Yep, time to stop daydreaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Hit the send button, mate.


----------



## Amictus

kothganesh said:


> Yep, time to stop daydreaming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I could do with a nice top-loading Schiit CD transport. If I asked them nicely...


----------



## kothganesh

amictus said:


> I could do with a nice top-loading Schiit CD transport. If I asked them nicely...


 
 Please...could you wait until the Yggy and the Rag show up ? Pretty please ?


----------



## hsubox

markm1 said:


> I've got an Asgard-2 with my Grado 225i. I'll be curious to your impressinons relative to your LD 1+. The LD seems to be muched loved by Grado owners.


 
  
 Alright, some first impressions!
  
 My first hour of listening was straight out of the box, coming from a Bifrost (USB, non-uber), to the RS1i. At first listen, I wasn't too overwhelmed... wasn't quite what I remembered hearing, but memory can be a capricious beast. But over the course of the next hour, I can say the bass is deep and well-defined, but not heavy. This amp is not as bright as I anticipated (especially with the common thought that they don't go well with Grados), and actually I don't really think I'd call it any more bright than the headphones that you plug into them - by definition, I guess I'd call it transparent. I'll plug in my Q701s later, and that should really show if they just emphasize a bright headphone's brightness or not. The PS500 immediately feels more at home with this amp. To my ears, there's less adjustment my brain needs to make listening to the PS500 than the RS1. It could just be the more bassy nature of the PS.
  
 The soundstage of the Asgard 2 is impressive. Grados are not known for their soundstage by any means, but it certainly feels wider and deeper than either the Fiio E09K or the LD1+. Speaking of the E09K, I think I'd call the signatures between the A2 and it similar, the Asgard is just cleaner and more articulate in every way.
  
 The build quality is really, really impressive considering the $250 price tag. Schiit builds good gear - no doubt about that. The volume pot is smooth, with just the right amount of resistance to me. It's a hefty amp, and feels very solid... very sharp edges, though. I may take a small file to the edges to bevel them a bit.
  
 Now, to compare to the LD1+, the A2 is brighter - I'd like to say it's less cozy - than the Little Dot with Voshkods, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Just depends on your taste. As I mentioned before, the main reason I wanted to try this amp alongside the LD1+ is the inherent low-maintenance nature of solid-state. The tubes I have in the LD are very susceptible to RF, and that can put a damper on a good listening session if my tablet or phone are anywhere near the amp.
  
 In the end, I have space for two amps on my listening table. Like having multiple headphones, there's a toy for any occasion. It's a really good amp for $250, for sure!


----------



## fenderf4i

When I had the PS500's, I preferred the Asgard over the LD1+ with Voshkods, I thought the LD1+ was just not as clear and clean as the Asgard was.


----------



## hsubox

fenderf4i said:


> When I had the PS500's, I preferred the Asgard over the LD1+ with Voshkods, I thought the LD1+ was just not as clear and clean as the Asgard was.


 
  
 I agree.
  
 I don't pretend to have too much experience with tubes, but could that just be one of the differences between tubes and solid state? The LD1+ is very good, but definitely seems to have a layer of velvet on the sound.


----------



## fenderf4i

hsubox said:


> I agree.
> 
> I don't pretend to have too much experience with tubes, but could that just be one of the differences between tubes and solid state? The LD1+ is very good, but definitely seems to have a layer of velvet on the sound.


 
  
  
 I know that my Vali and Lyr don't exhibit those traits. A while back I did a direct switching comparison of the Vali to the Asgard 2, and I'll just say that you would need very good ears to tell the difference between the two, at least with something like the PS500. With higher impedance headphones, maybe it would be different.


----------



## madwolfa

As my musical preferences have shifted over the years (and my hearing aged too), I have decided to switch to a darker/fatter/mellower headphones - HD650.
 Will see how it pairs with my Schiit stack - I think it should be just perfect! My trusty HD600s are up for sale now, they will be missed for sure.


----------



## john777

fenderf4i said:


> It would be nice if the Lyr pre-outs worked like the ones on the Asgard 2.




Sorry to be thick, but what is the difference?


----------



## fenderf4i

john777 said:


> Sorry to be thick, but what is the difference?




The Asgard automatically shuts off the preouts when headphones are plugged in, whereas the Lyr still outputs to both, so with the Lyr you have to turn down or shutoff the connected speakers manually.


----------



## john777

fenderf4i said:


> The Asgard automatically shuts off the preouts when headphones are plugged in, whereas the Lyr still outputs to both, so with the Lyr you have to turn down or shutoff the connected speakers manually.




Thank you so much. Shows how much notice I take of specifications etc. I only ever use my Lyr for headphones, never use the pre-outs.


----------



## fenderf4i

I hope that if there is a Lyr 2, that they change the preout behaviour to match that of the Asgard 2. It's just a little bit nicer.


----------



## Amictus

madwolfa said:


> As my musical preferences have shifted over the years (and my hearing aged too), I have decided to switch to a darker/fatter/mellower headphones - HD650.
> Will see how it pairs with my Schiit stack - I think it should be just perfect! My trusty HD600s are up for sale now, they will be missed for sure.


 
 I spend more time with my Gungnir/Lyr/HD650 combination than anything else at the moment. There is magic to be had...


----------



## john777

fenderf4i said:


> I hope that if there is a Lyr 2, that they change the preout behaviour to match that of the Asgard 2. It's just a little bit nicer.




Come on Jason, do the decent thing!


----------



## fenderf4i

john777 said:


> Come on Jason, do the decent thing!


 
  
  
  
 Haha. My guess is that it will be changed. The Asgard 2 is quite a bit newer than the original Lyr, so I'm thinking it will be modified to be consistent with the newer amp.


----------



## MrPanda

Does anyone know of a Windows utility to see the bit rate and depth of the audio streams sent out over SPDIF or USB?  I'm using a Bifrost and would like to verify what's going into it.
  
  Thanks


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> Does anyone know of a Windows utility to see the bit rate and depth of the audio streams sent out over SPDIF or USB?  I'm using a Bifrost and would like to verify what's going into it.


 
  
 Other than USBlyzer.. not much. If you will be able to extract anything meaningful there. I think the realtime data there is too raw.
  
 On a side note, if you're using ASIO or WASAPI and not getting playback errors - rest assured the bitrate/depth is the one you specified in the output settings.


----------



## MrPanda

Thanks... I'm using Windows 8 with Foobar or iTunes mostly.  I have the Windows settings for SPDIF optical (which I use the most) at 44.1 16 bits.  Do I have to change the settings manually anytime I play a high resolution track at 24/96.  I don't have many high res tracks yet, just some samples from HD tracks.


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> Thanks... I'm using Windows 8 with Foobar or iTunes mostly.  I have the Windows settings for SPDIF optical (which I use the most) at 44.1 16 bits.  Do I have to change the settings manually anytime I play a high resolution track at 24/96.  I don't have many high res tracks yet, just some samples from HD tracks.


 
  
 In Foobar2000, use WASAPI output with your S/PDIF optical device - it's going to be bit-perfect (Windows settings wouldn't matter at all), just make sure the S/PDIF device and Foobar2000 volume controls are both set to 100%.
  
 With iTunes it's a bit more complicated, there's no way to use "exclusive" mode and ensure bit-perfect operation, hence the Windows settings on S/PDIF device would have to match the iTunes track properties (to avoid Windows resampling at least).


----------



## MrPanda

Thanks MadWoolf... I'm hunting now for the setting in Foobar to use WASAPI


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> Thanks MadWoolf... I'm hunting now for the setting in Foobar to use WASAPI


 
  
 Download the plugin here: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi


----------



## MrPanda

That link takes me back to the Foobar app, not the plugin....


----------



## MrPanda

I tried a couple times, but I don't get a link to the plugin, just a link that takes me back to the first Foobar download page when I click the WASAPI link


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> I tried a couple times, but I don't get a link to the plugin, just a link that takes me back to the first Foobar download page when I click the WASAPI link


 
  
 Go to the "Components" section, find the "WASAPI output support 3.2.3" (click on it) and press the "Download" link there.


----------



## MrPanda

Thanks... that works if you have Foobar installed and their file extensions registered.  Much better now than iTunes.  Thanks!


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> Thanks... that works if you have Foobar installed and their file extensions registered.  Much better now than iTunes.  Thanks!


 
  
 Enjoy!


----------



## MrPanda

I'm even more impressed with Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack now.


----------



## madwolfa

mrpanda said:


> I'm even more impressed with Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack now.


 
  
 That's what I have too and loving it! Can't wait to try it with my new HD650!


----------



## randy98mtu

I finally broke down and ordered some Schiit.  My Magni/Modi stack will be here Thursday.  So far I've only used the NuForce Icon-Ido and a Dragonfly.  Hopefully I perceive a positive change.  I listen 10 times more at work, so I plan to keep the stack at my office to pair with my P7's.  But I'm going to have to try them with my HD650's as well.  The plan at the office is to go from my iPhone/iPad through a CCK into the Modi.  I've read I may have to use a powered USB hub in between.  I picked up my CCK today at lunch.  When plugging my Dragonfly in I get the "too much power" message from my iPad Mini Retina and my iPhone 5s.  Guess I should dig up a USB hub.
  
 Can anyone tell me why I should pay $20+ for the Schiit 6" RCA's versus just using a decent pair that I already have?


----------



## TeskR

randy98mtu said:


> Can anyone tell me why I should pay $20+ for the Schiit 6" RCA's versus just using a decent pair that I already have?


 
  
 Even they say on their site their is not any real benefit. They look nice I guess


----------



## Defiant00

randy98mtu said:


> Can anyone tell me why I should pay $20+ for the Schiit 6" RCA's versus just using a decent pair that I already have?


 
  
 They're nice and short? If you've already got some decent short cables then just use those.


----------



## Tuco1965

I agree with the others.  No sound difference, just makes your stack nice and neat.


----------



## superjawes

Isn't there an issue using the PYST cables with Magni and Modi, anyway? I thought that they (Modi and/or Magni) were too light, and the cables would lift the upper unit off the lower if you stacked them.

At least I though I saw a picture of that here somewhere...


----------



## Tuco1965

While I don't have the Pyst, a rubber band or strap fixes that problem nicely.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> While I don't have the Pyst, a rubber band or strap fixes that problem nicely.


 
  
 My cables are a bit long, so I have to use the wall.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm in the process of swapping out cables. Just doing it for the length. I like my gear neat.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> I'm in the process of swapping out cables. Just doing it for the length. I like my gear neat.


 
  
 Yeah, unfortunately I was buying this pair when I didn't have any stacks in mind.


----------



## Tuco1965

I found a guy on ebay that has made and is making more cables for me. Good cable at good price for custom length.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> I found a guy on ebay that has made and is making more cales for me. Good cable at good price for custom length.


 
  
 I'm just going to Blue Jeans Cable for all my needs. They do full custom too (length, etc).


----------



## Defiant00

superjawes said:


> Isn't there an issue using the PYST cables with Magni and Modi, anyway? I thought that they (Modi and/or Magni) were too light, and the cables would lift the upper unit off the lower if you stacked them.
> 
> At least I though I saw a picture of that here somewhere...


 
  
 That was me, and it's no longer an issue. Schiit appears to have switched to a thinner/more flexible cable so it no longer happens.


----------



## HPiper

Can anyone here rate the following  3 Schiit amps with the HD800's.Lyr, Valhalla, Asgard 2. I need to get another amp for my bedroom and I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible. I made the mistake of comparing my LD Mk3 with my Lyr and while the LD was listenable, it was a huge revelation when I moved over to the Lyr. I am hope the Valhalla or Asgard may be the equal of the Lyr or even better maybe, have to admit I don't have huge amounts of enthusiasm for that outcome but you never know.


----------



## jaywillin

hpiper said:


> Can anyone here rate the following  3 Schiit amps with the HD800's.Lyr, Valhalla, Asgard 2. I need to get another amp for my bedroom and I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible. I made the mistake of comparing my LD Mk3 with my Lyr and while the LD was listenable, it was a huge revelation when I moved over to the Lyr. I am hope the Valhalla or Asgard may be the equal of the Lyr or even better maybe, have to admit I don't have huge amounts of enthusiasm for that outcome but you never know.


 

 no experience with the hd800's, but i've had the asgard2 and the lyr, i recently heard the valhalla, of the 3, i'd pick the lyr, i think the lyr is one of the best all around amps there is at its price point.
 i was really surprised at how much i liked the valhalla , i would think the hd800's would pair better with tubes, but that's just a guess .


----------



## Rossliew

hpiper said:


> Can anyone here rate the following  3 Schiit amps with the HD800's.Lyr, Valhalla, Asgard 2. I need to get another amp for my bedroom and I'd like to do it as cheaply as possible. I made the mistake of comparing my LD Mk3 with my Lyr and while the LD was listenable, it was a huge revelation when I moved over to the Lyr. I am hope the Valhalla or Asgard may be the equal of the Lyr or even better maybe, have to admit I don't have huge amounts of enthusiasm for that outcome but you never know.




May i ask what you didnt like with the Little Dot Mk iii? It sounds glorious with the 800 with some aftermarket tubes. That said, both Valhalla and Lyr should fare well too.


----------



## superjawes

defiant00 said:


> That was me, and it's no longer an issue. Schiit appears to have switched to a thinner/more flexible cable so it no longer happens.


Well then I guess nevermind, then


----------



## randy98mtu

teskr said:


> Even they say on their site their is not any real benefit. They look nice I guess


 
 Thanks for all the responses.  I dug through my box of pre-HDMI cables in the basement and found some top of the line overpriced 1 foot long Monster Cables.   Hope they didn't stop working when they reached 15 years old. lol


----------



## madwolfa

Just got my brand new HD650s! Boy, they sound amazing with Schiit stack!


----------



## madwolfa

Just found a fresh review of Bifrost Uber/Asgard 2.
  
 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/headphone-amplifiers/headphone-amplifiers/schiit-asgard-2-headphone-amplifier-and-bifrost-uber-dac-review.html


----------



## randy98mtu

My stack of Schiit is coming today!  I'm so amp'd!
  
 *crickets*
  
 Too far?


----------



## Billheiser

Forgivable!


----------



## Byronb

randy98mtu said:


> My stack of Schiit is coming today!  I'm so amp'd!
> 
> *crickets*
> 
> Too far?


 
 Better than another Shiit joke.


----------



## randy98mtu

Ok, so I played the Magni/Modi for about 10 seconds (didn't have the right 1/4-1/8 adapter for my headphones so I had to run back to Best Buy) and I think I just cut a hole in my wallet.  The wife keeps asking what I want for Father's Day.  How do I tell her I want a Bifrost/Asgard2 or Valhalla?


----------



## madwolfa

randy98mtu said:


> How do I tell her I want a Bifrost/Asgard2 or Valhalla?


 
  
 How'd I tell my wife I now want a Gungnir after buying Bifrost/Asgard 2?


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> How'd I tell my wife I now want a Gungnir after buying Bifrost/Asgard 2?


 

I have tried converting dollars to salon units. That is, "this will only cost 2 cut/style/color appointments". I think it's a brilliant idea, in theory. In practice, not so much.


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> I have tried converting dollars to salon units. That is, "this will only cost 2 cut/style/color appointments". I think it's a brilliant idea, in theory. In practice, not so much.


 
  
 And I tell mine: "Just look at these rods and reels some men are buying! My "little boxes" are a great bargain compared to that".


----------



## randy98mtu

billheiser said:


> I have tried converting dollars to salon units. That is, "this will only cost 2 cut/style/color appointments". I think it's a brilliant idea, in theory. In practice, not so much.


 

 lol.  Logic doesn't always apply.
  
 I think this dirt cheap Dynex 1/8-1/4 adapter I bought is creating noise.  I have never heard anything using my previous setups, but now I'm hearing a ticking/buzzing sound intermittently.  I pulled the signal cables from the back of the Magni and that had no effect.  I'm going to try to remember the 1/8-1/4 adapter that came with my B&W P7's tomorrow and see if that is any different.  I have fiddled with the connection a bit and it seems to be better now.


----------



## Tuco1965

Leave brochures around the house for expensive power toys/autos.  After the dust settles from that, head gear will seem like a bargain.


----------



## nailbunny7

I'm currently using Gungnir > Mjolnir > LCD 2, and for speakers I run the Mjolnir to my Audio-GD Master 3 > Magnepan 1.6 (modded).
  
 The only thing I wish was different (other than the Gungnir I plan on upgrading to Yggdrasil when that comes out) is for a fully balanced tube preamp/ headphone amp, since I would love to tube roll with my maggies (and still get the 500W of power from my audio-gd). The only ones I can ever seem to find are $$$, and all use output transformers to make it balanced, which I don't like, not just because of the money cost, but because it can cause loss of some detail if you use anything but great output transformers (which is probably where a good chunk of the cost comes from).
  
 Jason seems like he has just the right kind of crazy mind to design a fully balanced tube preamp/ headphone amp and make it great, so I hope someday it will exist. I would be all over that


----------



## hsubox

randy98mtu said:


> Ok, so I played the Magni/Modi for about 10 seconds (didn't have the right 1/4-1/8 adapter for my headphones so I had to run back to Best Buy) and I think I just cut a hole in my wallet.  The wife keeps asking what I want for Father's Day.  How do I tell her I want a Bifrost/Asgard2 or Valhalla?


 
  
  


madwolfa said:


> How'd I tell my wife I now want a Gungnir after buying Bifrost/Asgard 2?


 
  
  


billheiser said:


> I have tried converting dollars to salon units. That is, "this will only cost 2 cut/style/color appointments". I think it's a brilliant idea, in theory. In practice, not so much.


 
  
  


tuco1965 said:


> Leave brochures around the house for expensive power toys/autos.  After the dust settles from that, head gear will seem like a bargain.


 
  
  
 Moral of this whole story: Stay single.


----------



## madwolfa

hsubox said:


> Moral of this whole story: Stay single.


 
  
 Oh well, at least mine is mostly reasonable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 As long as I make enough $$.


----------



## superjawes

hsubox said:


> Moral of this whole story: Stay single.


Alternatively, find a wife who has a slight obsession with Norse mythology. Not only will she have trouble against buying something named after it, but she might just buy one for you if it looks good


----------



## holyangel117

Two hours till I'm a proud owner of a Schiit Mjolnir. I've actually never heard what it sounds like, my friend just wanted to give me his old one for my birthday. What's so amazing about it?


----------



## joebobbilly

Well that depends on what you're driving with them. Overall I'd say it's a clean neutral amp with a warm tilt, tons of headroom, with a very black background and solid tight control.


----------



## jchandler3

madwolfa said:


> And I tell mine: "Just look at these rods and reels some men are buying! My "little boxes" are a great bargain compared to that".


 
  
 Yeah, I give the "headphones are such a bargain compared to loudspeakers" approach. Seems to work pretty well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess it's all relative, right?


----------



## madwolfa

jchandler3 said:


> Yeah, I give the "headphones are such a bargain compared to loudspeakers" approach. Seems to work pretty well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, ALL my headphone stuff costs less than a pair of Louboutin shoes, so...


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> Well, ALL my headphone stuff costs less than a pair of Louboutin shoes, so...



Gosh, ive never heard of Louboutin shoes, and I'm glad of it!!


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> Gosh, ive never heard of Louboutin shoes, and I'm glad of it!!


 
  
 Luckily my wife isn't a fan either! They look lovely tho.


----------



## randy98mtu

randy98mtu said:


> lol.  Logic doesn't always apply.
> 
> I think this dirt cheap Dynex 1/8-1/4 adapter I bought is creating noise.  I have never heard anything using my previous setups, but now I'm hearing a ticking/buzzing sound intermittently.  I pulled the signal cables from the back of the Magni and that had no effect.  I'm going to try to remember the 1/8-1/4 adapter that came with my B&W P7's tomorrow and see if that is any different.  I have fiddled with the connection a bit and it seems to be better now.


 
 Well it's not the cheap adapter.  It's either interference at work or (my guess) not very clean/properly grounded power.
  
 Going from my MacBook Pro through Dragonfly to the Magni to my HD650's isn't as impressive as the Magni/Modi P7 combo is.  Not that it's a slouch, but the P7's I can only take 1/3 of the power of the Magni.  I have it turned up to 100% with the HD650.  Turning it down to about 80% sounds better, but I've now decided I'd rather the Lyr than the Valhalla. 
  
 How much of the sound quality comes from the DAC?  If I got a Lyr and kept using my Dragonfly as the output would it sound much better, or would I be better served to carry my Modi back and forth until I can get a Bifrost?
  
 Now to find a powerstrip or something I can use at work to see if I can fix this.  If not this is really of little use to me.  I wanted it for work to power my P7's, not for home with my HD650.
  
 Edit: I had my MacBook turned up to 100%, but iTunes was not.  Now with it at 100%, I can only take about 50% of the Magni.   And it smokes my Onkyo home theater receiver headphone out. 
  
 So what is recommended on a $300-500 "Father's Day" ticket?


----------



## john777

nailbunny7 said:


> Jason seems like he has just the right kind of crazy mind to design a fully balanced tube preamp/ headphone amp and make it great, so I hope someday it will exist. I would be all over that




I am with you on that. Come on Jason!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

madwolfa said:


> Well, ALL my headphone stuff costs less than a pair of Louboutin shoes, so...


 
  
 I want to vomit.


----------



## Byronb

blackenedplague said:


> I want to vomit.


 
  
 Please not on the Louboutin's...


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

byronb said:


> Please not on the Louboutin's...


 
  
 no that's exactly where it would go


----------



## Zojokkeli

randy98mtu said:


> How much of the sound quality comes from the DAC?  If I got a Lyr and kept using my Dragonfly as the output would it sound much better, or would I be better served to carry my Modi back and forth until I can get a Bifrost?




IMO DAC makes a big difference. I upgraded my Modi to HRT MS II+ and it really makes my Vali sing. Too bad the HRT crashes my computer every time I try to use it with anything other than foobar, so might be I'm looking at Bitfrost in the future.


----------



## UmustBKidn

madwolfa said:


> How'd I tell my wife I now want a Gungnir after buying Bifrost/Asgard 2?


 
  
 Well, the answer is easy, though not necessarily cheap.
  
 First, determine what she wants that costs at least $750 clams. Buy her one. Be sure to put it in a fancy box, and supply a nice card and/or flowers.
  
 Wait one week.
  
 Then, buy your desired piece of audio gear. Tell her you bought it from a friend who had terminal cancer, and needed the money to pay medical bills. Have it shipped to a PO Box if possible, so you can bring it home in the back seat of your car (and so it's not delivered by USPS or UPS). While bringing it in the door, ask her if she'd like to sign the sympathy card that you bought him, and if she'd like to go with you to visit him.
  
 If that doesn't work, well, be prepared to sleep on the sofa.


----------



## madwolfa

umustbkidn said:


> Well, the answer is easy, though not necessarily cheap.


 
  
 Sounds like a plan. I will think about it.


----------



## Saraguie

umustbkidn said:


> Well, the answer is easy, though not necessarily cheap.
> 
> First, determine what she wants that costs at least $750 clams. Buy her one. Be sure to put it in a fancy box, and supply a nice card and/or flowers.
> 
> ...



LMAO


----------



## Byronb

saraguie said:


> LMAO


 
 Sounds like you may have some experience with this.


----------



## kothganesh

umustbkidn said:


> Well, the answer is easy, though not necessarily cheap.
> 
> First, determine what she wants that costs at least $750 clams. Buy her one. Be sure to put it in a fancy box, and supply a nice card and/or flowers.
> 
> ...



Dude, did you do this yourself or just sat there concocting the whole thing?  either way, this is out of the box conjuring. Must try this out.


----------



## randy98mtu

My stack might be going back.  I just sent an email to support at Schiit.  I have narrowed it down to my AT&T Cellular devices (iPhone and iPad mini) cause interference with the Magni.  Even without a signal cable plugged into the back of the amp.  As I wanted to use this on my desk at work and we have AT&T repeaters in the building as everyone has an AT&T phone, I won't be able to keep the Magni if this is just the way it is.


----------



## Billheiser

I have a Magni and AT&T. Have had my iPhone next to Magni many times without problem. So it may be an individual unit issue for you rather than an overall Magni one.


----------



## jexby

Wow new Schiit Wyrd and Mani!
Interesting what the Wyrd may help with USB transmissions?


----------



## hodgjy

Valhalla 2 and Lyr 2 have been announced and are currently shipping.


----------



## Billheiser

jexby said:


> Wow new Schiit Wyrd and Mani!
> Interesting what the Wyrd may help with USB transmissions?




? Is there an announcement? Link?


----------



## hodgjy

billheiser said:


> ? Is there an announcement? Link?


 
 I looked and couldn't find anything, either.  I wonder what those products are all about.


----------



## paradoxper

hodgjy said:


> I looked and couldn't find anything, either.  I wonder what those products are all about.


 
 Well, they're for real. Schiit is just sneaky.


----------



## Billheiser

jexby said:


> Wow new Schiit Wyrd and Mani!
> Interesting what the Wyrd may help with USB transmissions?



Will look forward to seeing what they are. 
Hey, there is a news flash - on the Schiit website today is the Valhalla 2 and Lyr 2! *Edit - hodgjy is ahead of me by 28 minutes on the V2 & L2.


----------



## fenderf4i

There were some tweets about them earlier, with photos. A USB purifier, and a phono preamp.


----------



## fenderf4i




----------



## Billheiser

Whoa


----------



## madwolfa

Phew, no Asgard 3. So I should be good for now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Valhalla 2 looks very impressive, though.


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> Phew, no Asgard 3. So I should be good for now.
> Valhalla 2 looks very impressive, though.



Valhalla 2 looks tempting to drive the Senns I bought from you madwolfa!


----------



## metaldood

Damn ..Just when I bought a used Lyr few days back.


----------



## Maxvla

2 completely new products and 2 revisions 'released' at the same time as well as the ongoing readying of Rag/Ygg. No wonder Jason's been too busy to write his chapters!


----------



## Rem0o

Valhalla 2 looks amazing.


----------



## randy98mtu

rem0o said:


> Valhalla 2 looks amazing.


 
 Yes it does...


----------



## Tuco1965

Nice to see refinements for a couple classics.


----------



## john57

DC regulated heaters for the lyr 2 interesting. If I understood Lyr 1 was using AC for the tube heaters or not?


----------



## KLJTech

rem0o said:


> Valhalla 2 looks amazing.


 
  
 I bet it makes for a sweet sounding single source preamp...oh, and a great headphone amp too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm going to need one of these...


----------



## Zojokkeli

L2 and V2 look awesome, but I've sorta caught my eye into Fostex TH600/900. Anyone have experience how Schiit plays with them?


----------



## Amictus

More Schiit. Oh, shoot!


----------



## CJs06

fenderf4i said:


>


 
 Fantastic! A schiit phono pre-amp. Mission complete.


----------



## HPiper

Extra points to the first person to post a review/comparison of the new Lyr/Valhalla vs the old ones. They don't say a whole lot on their website but it 'sounds like' they just added an impedance switch to the Valhalla but upgraded the power supply and other stuff in the Lyr. Anybody know if they upgraded the power supply in the Valhalla too? It is nice they kept the prices the same, I think most companies would have tacked on another $50 just because if for no other reason.


----------



## seb7

What is a USB Descrewifier?


----------



## g-michael-11

I've been meaning to buy a Cambridge Audio phono pre amp for while. This changes everything.. it will be interesting to see how this compares with the 651p and other pre amps in the same price range.


----------



## hodgjy

seb7 said:


> What is a USB Descrewifier?


 
  
 A lot of DACs hate being plugged into hubs and USB 3 ports.  I'm guess that this gizmo allows users to use this as a power hub that DACs can stop freaking out over.  Also, I bet it makes using USB 3 ports more possible.  
  
 These are all guesses, of course.  As another guess, I bet it might help break ground loops and clean up background noise fed by the computer.


----------



## paradoxper

Alex relayed some info: 
  
It has one input port and one output port as it is meant to improve a single USB signal.  It couldn't do that if multiple items were plugged in.  It is not a simple powered hub, it is a signal cleaner and reclocker also.  Essentially it sits between your computer and your DAC.  It takes the underpowered, noisy, fragmented signal from your computer and brings the voltage and amperage up to spec, filters out the noise, and reclocks the packets to ensure a regular flow of data and power to your DAC.  Most powered hubs will simply bump up the power without dealing with signal noise or packet flow.


----------



## jaywillin

paradoxper said:


> Alex relayed some info:
> 
> It has one input port and one output port as it is meant to improve a single USB signal.  It couldn't do that if multiple items were plugged in.  It is not a simple powered hub, it is a signal cleaner and reclocker also.  Essentially it sits between your computer and your DAC.  It takes the underpowered, noisy, fragmented signal from your computer and brings the voltage and amperage up to spec, filters out the noise, and reclocks the packets to ensure a regular flow of data and power to your DAC.  Most powered hubs will simply bump up the power without dealing with signal noise or packet flow.


 

 very, very interesting


----------



## Billheiser

hpiper said:


> Extra points to the first person to post a review/comparison of the new Lyr/Valhalla vs the old ones. They don't say a whole lot on their website but it 'sounds like' they just added an impedance switch to the Valhalla but upgraded the power supply and other stuff in the Lyr. Anybody know if they upgraded the power supply in the Valhalla too? It is nice they kept the prices the same, I think most companies would have tacked on another $50 just because if for no other reason.



Look at the FAQ tab on the Valhalla 2 description on Schiit website. Quite a bit of redesign to lower noise, distortion, and output impedance.


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> Look at the FAQ tab on the Valhalla 2 description on Schiit website. Quite a bit of redesign to lower noise, distortion, and output impedance.




It certainly doesn't look cosmetic.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

fenderf4i said:


>


 
  
  
 I really really hope this will be as good as the Musical Fidelity V90-LPS


----------



## jchandler3

paradoxper said:


> Alex relayed some info:
> 
> [COLOR=222222]It has one input port and one output port as it is meant to improve a single USB signal.  It couldn't do that if multiple items were plugged in.  It is not a simple powered hub, it is a signal cleaner and reclocker also.  Essentially it sits between your computer and your DAC.  It takes the underpowered, noisy, fragmented signal from your computer and brings the voltage and amperage up to spec, filters out the noise, and reclocks the packets to ensure a regular flow of data and power to your DAC.  Most powered hubs will simply bump up the power without dealing with signal noise or packet flow.[/COLOR]




Maybe this is a stupid question, but why don't they just incorporate this functionality into the chassis of a DAC? Like, why couldn't they have the Gungnir do this before converting a signal?

In any case, cool device. I imagine I'll get it.


----------



## paradoxper

jchandler3 said:


> Maybe this is a stupid question, but why don't they just incorporate this functionality into the chassis of a DAC? Like, why couldn't they have the Gungnir do this before converting a signal?
> 
> In any case, cool device. I imagine I'll get it.


 
 It's not a 'fix-all.' I imagine throughout production of, say, Gungnir they didn't experience any problems.
 However when released into the wild this is when problems pop up.
  
 Alex also relayed:"USB connection issues are our number 1 tech support problem and this provides an easy solution."


----------



## jexby

jchandler3 said:


> Maybe this is a stupid question, but why don't they just incorporate this functionality into the chassis of a DAC? Like, why couldn't they have the Gungnir do this before converting a signal?
> 
> In any case, cool device. I imagine I'll get it.




Before I buy it I'll need some technical explanation from Jason regarding the guts of Wyrd.

As in:
 How are the USB guts of Wyrd better than BiFrost USB?
 Why don't the same guts get put onto an upgraded USB board within BiFrost?
 If they don't believe/prove Wyrd will improve sonics, why even build the damn thing?

A most puzzling product coming from them until these are answered.


----------



## jchandler3

jexby said:


> Before I buy it I'll need some technical explanation from Jason regarding the guts of Wyrd.
> 
> As in:
> How are the USB guts of Wyrd better than BiFrost USB?
> ...




The product definitely makes sense to me. A standard USB out on a computer is utter crap. There's so much noise and interference from the computer that it makes sense to filter out that dirty signal. 

And a lot of DACs don't get the power they want and a lot of computers throw up warnings that a "USB device is drawing too much power." Seems like this will solve that. 

I'm more wondering if they can incorporate it into future iterations of their DACs.


----------



## madwolfa

jchandler3 said:


> I'm more wondering if they can incorporate it into future iterations of their DACs.


 
  
 USB Gen 3 card upgrade?


----------



## jexby

madwolfa said:


> USB Gen 3 card upgrade?


 
  
 +1 to that, would like to see that in BiFrost Uber immediately.   (should it be possible)


----------



## jexby

jchandler3 said:


> The product definitely makes sense to me. A standard USB out on a computer is utter crap. There's so much noise and interference from the computer that it makes sense to filter out that dirty signal.
> 
> And a lot of DACs don't get the power they want and a lot of computers throw up warnings that a "USB device is drawing too much power." Seems like this will solve that.
> 
> I'm more wondering if they can incorporate it into future iterations of their DACs.


 
  
 1.  a lot of great USB DACs already DO filter out and/or correct noise when possible (ala Concero HD) on a USB bus.  other (not mine) reports of adding "clean power" to a Concero HD DAC yielded little benefit when adding something like iFi iUSB Power onto it.
 so maybe Wyrd isn't for that level of DAC.
  
 2.  I've only seen "drawing too much power" when a USB DAC (GO450, Concero HD) is attempting to hook up to an iPad/iPhone.  never to a "real computer" like my iMac or Macbook Pro or Air.
  
 3.  yes, incorporating Wyrd usb technology inside a future iteration of BiFrost would be great if possible (needed?).
  
 use case:  I can see this new Schiit product helping out Case 2 IMHO.   (or if you have an older USB DAC without much filtering smarts in the first place.)
 perhaps an iDevice wanting to feed a portable DAC that has no internal-battery (GO450, Concero HP) at a bedside set up or some such.
  
 Big question:  would the Wyrd *charge* the battery of an iPhone/iPad while hooked up to it via Lightning USB cable?   like the CEntrance HiFi-M8  does.


----------



## themoddingden

ok thread jump but

 [img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/ff/100x100px-LS-ffa6b0a3_DSCN1587-2.jpeg[/img] 
 BlueAlien  what are those speakers?????


----------



## jchandler3

jexby said:


> 2.  I've only seen "drawing too much power" when a USB DAC (GO450, Concero HD) is attempting to hook up to an iPad/iPhone.  never to a "real computer" like my iMac or Macbook Pro or Air.




FWIW, I've had this happen on my "real" MacBook Pro retina, both directly from it and through a powered hub. With several DACs. But I imagine it would solve this issue.


----------



## darober2

I too am a huge supporter of Schiit products and I appreciate their ethos as well-lets re-ignite the audiophile community and make high quality sound affordable and available to all! 

 I own a fully upgraded Bifrost paired with the Lyr with EAT ECC-88 Cool Valves rolled into the picture. I listen with Audeze LCD-2 and a Moon-Audio Silver Dragon V3.  I say unhesitatingly that the sound experience is heavenly- I can die a happy man!  I have no need for any social interaction because of my sound system.  

 Does anyone have any info/updates on new product info from Schiit-especially Ragnarok consumer availability.


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> Alex relayed some info:
> 
> [COLOR=222222]It has one input port and one output port as it is meant to improve a single USB signal.  It couldn't do that if multiple items were plugged in.  It is not a simple powered hub, it is a signal cleaner and reclocker also.  Essentially it sits between your computer and your DAC.  It takes the underpowered, noisy, fragmented signal from your computer and brings the voltage and amperage up to spec, filters out the noise, and reclocks the packets to ensure a regular flow of data and power to your DAC.  Most powered hubs will simply bump up the power without dealing with signal noise or packet flow.[/COLOR]



Thanks Cory. My order is going in.


----------



## paradoxper

kothganesh said:


> Thanks Cory. My order is going in.


 
 Thanks guinea pig.


----------



## jchandler3

jexby said:


> +1 to that, would like to see that in BiFrost Uber immediately.   (should it be possible)




Ok I got an answer on this. Jason said, 

"Most likely not. It would really change the power supply on the existing products."

No big deal to me! If it had been an upgrade feature, it probably would have cost just as much anyway. 

I'll also be a guinnea pig


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> Thanks guinea pig.


 
 Yeah, except I cannot find it on the product page of Schitt's website.


----------



## paradoxper

kothganesh said:


> Yeah, except I cannot find it on the product page of Schitt's website.


 
 Well, look harder! Sheesh.


----------



## NinjaHamster

paradoxper said:


> Well, look harder! Sheesh.


 
 Look harder where ?  Looking harder on the Products page won't help him, nor will looking on the Schiit "news" page. Perhaps you could be of help, rather than just saying "You're doing it wrong " ?


----------



## paradoxper

ninjahamster said:


> Look harder where ?  Looking harder on the Products page won't help him, nor will looking on the Schiit "news" page. Perhaps you could be of help, rather than just saying "You're doing it wrong " ?


 
 Koth knows I'm joking. So just keep calm.


----------



## jaywillin

settle, settle .....


----------



## kothganesh

paradoxper said:


> Koth knows I'm joking. So just keep calm.


 
 +1000. Just joshin' on a Sunday.


----------



## EraserXIV

Anyone have any information on the design of the Wyrd compared to the iFi iUSB?


----------



## jexby

eraserxiv said:


> Anyone have any information on the design of the Wyrd compared to the iFi iUSB?


 
  
 double +1.
 that would be a great USB descrewifier shoot-out !


----------



## Wildcatsare1

randy98mtu said:


> Well it's not the cheap adapter.  It's either interference at work or (my guess) not very clean/properly grounded power.
> 
> Going from my MacBook Pro through Dragonfly to the Magni to my HD650's isn't as impressive as the Magni/Modi P7 combo is.  Not that it's a slouch, but the P7's I can only take 1/3 of the power of the Magni.  I have it turned up to 100% with the HD650.  Turning it down to about 80% sounds better, but I've now decided I'd rather the Lyr than the Valhalla.
> 
> ...




A Lyr 2 of course, though not to make your decision more difficult the Valhalla 2 puts out 880 mW into the 650's 300 ohms


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> +1000. Just joshin' on a Sunday.


 
 That's one Vodka Lassi too many. You should stop at 999 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  or risk getting Schiit faced.


----------



## jaywillin

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/06/five-new-pieces-of-schiit-land-at-t-h-e-newport-beach-2014/


----------



## madwolfa

jaywillin said:


> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2014/06/five-new-pieces-of-schiit-land-at-t-h-e-newport-beach-2014/


 
  
 Thanks. There goes the Wyrd's back (I think someone was asking):


----------



## madwolfa

> The Ragnarok’s major point of difference is microprocessor-managemed power supply and as per Bifrost and Gungnir, *the* *in-built DAC* is bitperfect.


 
  
What??


----------



## jaywillin

madwolfa said:


> Thanks. There goes the Wyrd's back (I think someone was asking):


 
 anytime !
  
 and there's new on the rag if anyone missed it !


----------



## Tuco1965

Interesting little piece.  I'll be looking forward to some feedback on this one.


----------



## Saraguie

madwolfa said:


> Thanks. There goes the Wyrd's back (I think someone was asking):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't want to ask Jason and cause a month delay   Any idea when this can be ordered? Not on the Website.  And If I missed it from a previous post you can curse me like I do the others who ask questions that are a page or two behind.
  
 JUNE  thanks Tuco


----------



## Tuco1965

http://www.head-fi.org/t/721201/schiit-hits-the-fan-valhalla-2-lyr-2-announced-wyrd-and-mani-previewed#post_10593203


----------



## DaemonSire

madwolfa said:


> Thanks. There goes the Wyrd's back (I think someone was asking):


 
  
 Is it me, or are the INPUT and OUTPUT reversed?
  
 Edit: nevermind...I'm being stupid...  Apparently it has been a long week and it is only Monday...


----------



## madwolfa

daemonsire said:


> Is it me, or are the INPUT and OUTPUT reversed?


 
  
 No.. The input is normally B-type USB plug.


----------



## ab initio

daemonsire said:


> Is it me, or are the INPUT and OUTPUT reversed?


 

 No.
  
 Typically, USB type B goes _to  _the peripheral (in this case, the Wyrd's input accepting data from the computer) and USB type A is _from_ the master device (in this case, the Wyrd's output sending data to a DAC).
  
 Cheers


----------



## Tuco1965

daemonsire said:


> Is it me, or are the INPUT and OUTPUT reversed?


 
 Looks correct to me.  Large square input from source.  Small output to Dac.


----------



## DaemonSire

Ya sorry, you guys are right.  I had a dumb moment there... I was thinking in reverse between the communication of the DAC to the Computer and not the Computer to the DAC.


----------



## rocksteady65

> [The Ragnarok’s major point of difference is microprocessor-managemed power supply and as per Bifrost and Gungnir, the in-built DAC is bitperfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## antikryst

Just in time. Lyr 2! That's my next upgrade. 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## tdockweiler

I'm going to use the Wyrd with my $500 SilverDragonWorm™ USB cables! Should be a terrific combo.
 If I don't hear a 60% improvement I'm going to return it and leave a 1 star review.
  
 BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.


----------



## ab initio

tdockweiler said:


> I'm going to use the Wyrd with my $500 SilverDragonWorm™ USB cables! Should be a terrific combo.
> If I don't hear a 60% improvement I'm going to return it and leave a 1 star review.
> 
> BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.




Wait...... what?

Cheers


----------



## madwolfa

tdockweiler said:


> I'm going to use the Wyrd with my $500 SilverDragonWorm™ USB cables! Should be a terrific combo.
> If I don't hear a 60% improvement I'm going to return it and leave a 1 star review.
> 
> BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.


----------



## StanD

tdockweiler said:


> I'm going to use the Wyrd with my $500 SilverDragonWorm™ USB cables! Should be a terrific combo.
> If I don't hear a 60% improvement I'm going to return it and leave a 1 star review.
> 
> BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.


 
 I think it's only compatible with cables that cost more than $250.


----------



## UmustBKidn

tdockweiler said:


> BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.


 
  
 ^ Now that there is funny, I don't care who y'are.


----------



## UmustBKidn

kothganesh said:


> Dude, did you do this yourself or just sat there concocting the whole thing?  either way, this is out of the box conjuring. Must try this out.


 
  
 As I was contemplating a witty reply, I ran across the image below on a google search. That should explain everything. Especially the last one at the bottom.


----------



## kothganesh

umustbkidn said:


> As I was contemplating a witty reply, I ran across the image below on a google search. That should explain everything. Especially the last one at the bottom.


 
 I resemble those remarks


----------



## CJs06

tdockweiler said:


> I'm going to use the Wyrd with my $500 SilverDragonWorm™ USB cables! Should be a terrific combo.
> If I don't hear a 60% improvement I'm going to return it and leave a 1 star review.
> 
> BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.


 
 This is some appreciable sarcasm, thank you


----------



## hahahigh

tdockweiler said:


> I'm going to use the Wyrd with my $500 SilverDragonWorm™ USB cables! Should be a terrific combo.
> If I don't hear a 60% improvement I'm going to return it and leave a 1 star review.
> 
> BTW my neighbor wants to know if this is compatible with Monoprice cables? I don't see it in the FAQ.


 
  
 This post is made of win.


----------



## commtrd

Wonder if the Wyrd will come with another USB cable to go from device to dac? Powered by a wall wart? Didn't see it on the web site. Interesting to see if it will be a worthwhile way to kill a C-note.


----------



## Tuco1965

I doubt it will come with anything more than the wall wart.


----------



## metaldood

Anyone here used a US 115V Schiit product with a step down transformer for converting Europe 230V to 115V? Planning to travel for a month and was wondering if I can take my amp with me.


----------



## tdockweiler

commtrd said:


> Wonder if the Wyrd will come with another USB cable to go from device to dac? Powered by a wall wart? Didn't see it on the web site. Interesting to see if it will be a worthwhile way to kill a C-note.


 
  
 I talked to Jason at a recent meet and he told me that the first 1000 units sold will come with a free bumper sticker.
 I am going to refresh Schiit's website every hour until it's available. I don't want to miss out.


----------



## Tuco1965

tdockweiler said:


> I talked to Jason at a recent meet and he told me that the first 1000 units sold will come with a free bumper sticker.
> I am going to refresh Schiit's website every hour until it's available. I don't want to miss out.


 
  
  
 So you don't want to miss out on the Schiithead sticker?


----------



## tdockweiler

tuco1965 said:


> So you don't want to miss out on the Schiithead sticker?


 
  
 Heck no! You kidding? I'm going to put it on my Prius!


----------



## Tuco1965

So if I see a Schiithead in a Prius, it's likely you then?


----------



## jchandler3

On an unrelated note, I just bit the bullet and ordered the Gungnir! I'll likely pair it with the Wyrd, once it becomes available. 
  
 Who knows, maybe I'll step up to the Yggy one day, but likely not anytime soon


----------



## rocksteady65

metaldood said:


> Anyone here used a US 115V Schiit product with a step down transformer for converting Europe 230V to 115V? Planning to travel for a month and was wondering if I can take my amp with me.


 
  
 Hi.
  
Lumos, a user from Georgia, has successfully used -or is indeed still using- a step-down transformer with his Magni/ Modi combo...  
 Best,
  
 Leonel


----------



## metaldood

rocksteady65 said:


> Hi.
> 
> Lumos, a user from Georgia, has successfully used -or is indeed still using- a step-down transformer with his Magni/ Modi combo...
> Best,
> ...


 
  
 Thanks. Can you or anyone suggest which is a reliable transformer with good circuit protection and enough power to drive both amp and dac?


----------



## Sanlitun

paradoxper said:


> Alex relayed some info:
> 
> It has one input port and one output port as it is meant to improve a single USB signal.  It couldn't do that if multiple items were plugged in.  It is not a simple powered hub, it is a signal cleaner and reclocker also.  Essentially it sits between your computer and your DAC.  It takes the underpowered, noisy, fragmented signal from your computer and brings the voltage and amperage up to spec, filters out the noise, and reclocks the packets to ensure a regular flow of data and power to your DAC.  Most powered hubs will simply bump up the power without dealing with signal noise or packet flow.


 
  
  
 I've just gone through a little bit of a personal adventure with an attempt at improving audio over USB. Tried out external USB to S/PDIF converters, IFI iUSB, Batteries, fancy split cables, all of the usual stuff.  I ended up removing the LED lights from my computer and getting rid of any wall warts in my listening room that were not completely necessary. I learned quite a bit really and did manage to improve the sound I was getting, but not in the way I had expected.
  
 After all of that, I ended up with just a short .5m USB cable running from my computer to my DAC, and I am getting the best sound from this.
  
 However there are some major caveats to that result, and the biggest one is that my current DAC does not draw 5v from USB and is not affected by USB power conditions, and it has a good XMOS setup. With those DACs I did try that do draw power pretty much anything can happen to affect the sound. So much so I would advise buyers to avoid units that have poorly designed USB interfaces and to challenge manufacturers to not cheap out and use the +5v from USB.
  
 To get to the point here I feel the Wyrd is pretty interesting and may help out some DACs but the hope is that the reference USB designs everyone uses can be improved.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> So if I see a Schiithead in a Prius, it's likely you then?


 
 I think he's full of Schiit.


----------



## gefski

sanlitun said:


> I've just gone through a little bit of a personal adventure with an attempt at improving audio over USB. Tried out external USB to S/PDIF converters, IFI iUSB, Batteries, fancy split cables, all of the usual stuff.  I ended up removing the LED lights from my computer and getting rid of any wall warts in my listening room that were not completely necessary. I learned quite a bit really and did manage to improve the sound I was getting, but not in the way I had expected.
> 
> After all of that, I ended up with just a short .5m USB cable running from my computer to my DAC, and I am getting the best sound from this.
> 
> ...




So you are not using battery or iUSB to accomplish computer 5v avoidance? Asking because I've considered iUSB, but haven't once found a review or feedback attributing specific sonic improvements to its use. A couple times I've asked in Head-Fi and received a "not sure" type answer.

On the other hand, my experience and hundreds of reviews show that USB implementations vary widely in sonic quality, whether built in to a dac or outboard. All one can do is take the time to experiment and listen, as you've done.


----------



## EraserXIV

sanlitun said:


> To get to the point here I feel the Wyrd is pretty interesting and may help out some DACs but the hope is that the reference USB designs everyone uses can be improved.


 
  


gefski said:


> So you are not using battery or iUSB to accomplish computer 5v avoidance? Asking because I've considered iUSB, but haven't once found a review or feedback attributing specific sonic improvements to its use. A couple times I've asked in Head-Fi and received a "not sure" type answer.
> 
> On the other hand, my experience and hundreds of reviews show that USB implementations vary widely in sonic quality, whether built in to a dac or outboard. All one can do is take the time to experiment and listen, as you've done.


 
  
 My main interest in the Wyrd and devices like the iUSB is that I have found that my tube amp is very sensitive to noise coming from the laptop and USB port. It is sensitive to the point that there is a constant background "buzzing" noise when I have the USB hooked up to my DAC.
  
 The DAC that I use (Yulong DA8) doesn't draw power from the USB 5V, so I tried tricks like putting electrical tape over pins 1 and 4 of the USB cable to cut off the 5V supply. The noise does decrease a significant amount when I do that, but I still do have a noticeable amount of background noise coming through which I found very interesting. I have isolated the issue to the USB because the noise disappears when I disconnect the USB cable from the laptop and use SPDIF coax from my CD-player. I'm thinking that noise from the laptop is still making its way downstream through the data pins in the USB despite the fact that the 5V pins are lifted.
  
 What I have also found interesting is that the noise doesn't come through when I use the integrated solid state amp of the DA8.


----------



## madwolfa

eraserxiv said:


> My main interest in the Wyrd and devices like the iUSB is that I have found that my tube amp is very sensitive to noise coming from the laptop and USB port. It is sensitive to the point that there is a constant background "buzzing" noise when I have the USB hooked up to my DAC.


 
  
 This is a ground loop noise. Have you tried plugging your amp/DAC to the same outlet with your PC?


----------



## EraserXIV

No it's not a ground loop, it happens when my laptop is running on battery too. Isolated the issue because throwing a 2-prong cheater adapter on my DAC didn't fix the issue either.


----------



## madwolfa

eraserxiv said:


> No it's not a ground loop, it happens when my laptop is running on battery too. Isolated the issue because throwing a 2-prong cheater adapter on my DAC didn't fix the issue either.


 
  
 That must be real schiitty USB you have there.. have you tried other laptop by any chance?


----------



## EraserXIV

madwolfa said:


> That must be real schiitty USB you have there.. have you tried other laptop by any chance?


 
  
 Yeah I'm thinking it's a really noisy USB implementation. It has a nice "feature" that allows me to charge my phone or tablet out of the USB ports even when the laptop is shutdown so it's likely there's extra circuitry of some sort going on. I actually haven't tried another laptop and unfortunately can't at the moment as I am out of town


----------



## Billheiser

More tube-y sounding: Vali, or Valhalla?


----------



## TeskR

billheiser said:


> More tube-y sounding: Vali, or Valhalla?


 

 Most likely the Valhalla seeing as its a OTL tube amp where the Vali is a hybrid.


----------



## TontonJoK

+1 for Valhalla

If it is for your Senn HD600 then yes, 
for the AKG K702 not sure it's a great combo to pair with an OTL amp (low impedance) 

The Lyr 2 could be an option too


----------



## jaywillin

billheiser said:


> More tube-y sounding: Vali, or Valhalla?


 

 had the vali, heard the valhalla, i've heard both side by side, and valhalla all the way


----------



## Billheiser

Thank you. Two simultaneously true things:
1. Shoot, I didn't want to be influenced to get the more expensive of the two models. 
2. Oh goody, that supports my desire for the more expensive of the two models.


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> Thank you. Two simultaneously true things:
> 1. Shoot, I didn't want to be influenced to get the more expensive of the two models.
> 2. Oh goody, that supports my desire for the more expensive of the two models.


 
  
 Get the Valhalla 2, Bill, and let us all know what you think! Or are you looking for used Valhalla maybe?


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> Get the Valhalla 2, Bill, and let us all know what you think! Or are you looking for used Valhalla maybe?




I think I will go for it (sooner or later). I like the idea of the gain switch and the preamp outs, so will aim for the Valhalla 2.


----------



## U6astik

Hello guys.
  
 Could you tell me if there is a dedicated thread about Valhalla?
  
 Thanks


----------



## tdockweiler

What is less like the Asgard 2 sound between the Valhalla and Lyr?
 I loved how the Vali sounded with the Q701, so something like that on steroids would be good. With the Q701 (only) it sounded transparent.
  
 I actually have a feeling that Valhalla 2 would sound great with the Q701 despite technically not being a perfect match.
  
 Hopefully someone can get the Valhalla 2 and Lyr 2 and see how it is with the Q701.
  
 I usually don't keep any amp unless it works equally well with my 38ohm DJ100, Q701 AND HD-650. That's actually not as easy as it seems.
  
 Not even my O2 pulls this off. So far i've found only 3 amps that can do this.
  
 Not a fan of the Asgard 2 so if the Lyr 2 is similar then I would pass. Actually I'd probably love the Asgard 2 with a DT-880 or T90.
  
 I thought I don't like warm sounding amps, but I found out this is not always the case. For example, I love the Bravo V2 with a warmer sounding tube (I know it's only a hybrid though) with the HD-650. I originally though this would make the HD-650 WORSE, but mostly the opposite.


----------



## Billheiser

Since the Valhalla 2 has the switchable gain to also work w lower impedance phones, your hunch about driving the 701 well is probably right


----------



## jaywillin

tdockweiler said:


> What is less like the Asgard 2 sound between the Valhalla and Lyr?
> I loved how the Vali sounded with the Q701, so something like that on steroids would be good. With the Q701 (only) it sounded transparent.
> 
> I actually have a feeling that Valhalla 2 would sound great with the Q701 despite technically not being a perfect match.
> ...


 

 with my headphones, what it sounds like you are describing as to the sound, drive characteristics , would be the lyr, to me, its like a vali on steroids, powerful, dynamic,at the same time quiet, and a little warmer, which your tube choice can effect these two.
 i've heard the valhalla as well, its very good, but warmer, it has more of the classic tube sound, than the vali, and lyr, as it should.
 of course, this is regarding the first versions of the lyr and the val. just my $.02


----------



## HPiper

jaywillin said:


> with my headphones, what it sounds like you are describing as to the sound, drive characteristics , would be the lyr, to me, its like a vali on steroids, powerful, dynamic,at the same time quiet, and a little warmer, which your tube choice can effect these two.
> i've heard the valhalla as well, its very good, but warmer, it has more of the classic tube sound, than the vali, and lyr, as it should.
> of course, this is regarding the first versions of the lyr and the val. just my $.02


 

 +1 I don't notice nearly as much of that 'tube' sound with my Lyr as opposed to my Little Dot MKk3


----------



## amnesiac75

Pics of my schiit need to get a lyr 2 to set beside my Valhalla.


----------



## amnesiac75




----------



## Themorganlett85

amnesiac75 said:


>





> That looks absolutely awesome, where did you get the glass shelf that it's on? I would very much like to have something like that when I get mine.


----------



## Tuco1965

I must say I like that glass stand too!


----------



## jaywillin

i didn't notice it at first, but that's killer !


----------



## fenderf4i

Yeah where can we get that stand!


----------



## Tuco1965

Ok we all want to know where it came from now.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> Ok we all want to know where it came from now.


 
  
 Let's hope it's not something inherited from his grandma.


----------



## Tuco1965

madwolfa said:


> Let's hope it's not something inherited from his grandma.


 
  
 Hmm 
 May have to find out where he lives.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Damn, look what I've started


----------



## joebobbilly

themorganlett85 said:


> Damn, look what I've started


 

 Stop being such a tease! Tell us already!!!


----------



## Tuco1965

joebobbilly said:


> Stop being such a tease! Tell us already!!!


 
  
 Yeah, what he said!


----------



## fenderf4i

Group buy! lol


----------



## Barry S

Here's one at Monoprice--looks similar. Cheap, but not in stock at the moment.
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=109&cp_id=10910&cs_id=1091002&p_id=9434&seq=1&format=2&res=1


----------



## madwolfa

barry s said:


> Here's one at Monoprice--looks similar. Cheap, but not in stock at the moment.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=109&cp_id=10910&cs_id=1091002&p_id=9434&seq=1&format=2&res=1


 
  
 In stock on Amazon, but twice more expensive (still sold by Monoprice, though).
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109435-27-5-Inch-9-5-Inch-Desktop/dp/B00AJHCRCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401989507&sr=8-1&keywords=Multi+Media+Desktop+Stand


----------



## Barry S

madwolfa said:


> In stock on Amazon, but twice more expensive (still sold by Monoprice, though).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109435-27-5-Inch-9-5-Inch-Desktop/dp/B00AJHCRCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401989507&sr=8-1&keywords=Multi+Media+Desktop+Stand


 

 That's the 27" wide version.  The 22" version is the Schiity one.


----------



## Themorganlett85

barry s said:


> Here's one at Monoprice--looks similar. Cheap, but not in stock at the moment.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=109&cp_id=10910&cs_id=1091002&p_id=9434&seq=1&format=2&res=1


 





 My hero, thank you!!!!!!!!


----------



## EraserXIV

Hmm looking at the dimensions, doesn't look like a Ragnarok could fit on top or below this stand, deal breaker for the Ragnarok


----------



## Barry S

eraserxiv said:


> Hmm looking at the dimensions, doesn't look like a Ragnarok could fit on top or below this stand, deal breaker for the Ragnarok


 

 The stand is already almost as high as the Rag. With some tall isolator feet, it would probably work. From the look of the legs, you could also probably order two shelves and screw two legs together at each corner.


----------



## Tuco1965

barry s said:


> Here's one at Monoprice--looks similar. Cheap, but not in stock at the moment.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product/?c_id=109&cp_id=10910&cs_id=1091002&p_id=9434&seq=1&format=2&res=1


 
  
  
 Nice find.


----------



## jaywillin

http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109435-27-5-Inch-9-5-Inch-Desktop/dp/B00AJHCRCI/ref=pd_cp_pc_1
  
 in stock


----------



## madwolfa

jaywillin said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109435-27-5-Inch-9-5-Inch-Desktop/dp/B00AJHCRCI/ref=pd_cp_pc_1
> 
> in stock


 
  
 Yeah, but it's 27" as mentioned.


----------



## jaywillin

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, but it's 27" as mentioned.


 

 well i'll be, i didn't read fully ! lol


----------



## Themorganlett85

Hey guys, I'm not sure if this has been touched on or not but I'm going to be ordering some Schiit here VERY soon and I'm still trying to decide on the Valhalla 2 or the Lyr 2. I plan on picking up some Sennheisier HD 650s and some Beyerdynamic DT990 600OHM and I know the website clearly states that the Valhalla is the best way to go for those two headphones but I was just curious if you guys have any input you'd like to give me regarding the different sound between the two. Thank you in advance.


----------



## madwolfa

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys, I'm not sure if this has been touched on or not but I'm going to be ordering some Schiit here VERY soon and I'm still trying to decide on the Valhalla 2 or the Lyr 2. I plan on picking up some Sennheisier HD 650s and some Beyerdynamic DT990 600OHM and I know the website clearly states that the Valhalla is the best way to go for those two headphones but I was just curious if you guys have any input you'd like to give me regarding the different sound between the two. Thank you in advance.


 
  
 I don't think you will hear much difference between the two, as both were designed as super quiet and accurate amps.  
 But looking at the specs alone, Valhalla 2 seems to be more natural fit for high impedance cans like HD650 and DT990.
 It's cheaper too.


----------



## ab initio

madwolfa said:


> In stock on Amazon, but twice more expensive (still sold by Monoprice, though).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-109435-27-5-Inch-9-5-Inch-Desktop/dp/B00AJHCRCI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401989507&sr=8-1&keywords=Multi+Media+Desktop+Stand




You guys really want to schiit on a glass table? Shouldnt somebody have made a glass bottom boat joke by now?

Cheers


----------



## Tuco1965

ab initio said:


> You guys really want to schiit on a glass table? Shouldnt somebody have made a glass bottom boat joke by now?
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 You say that like it's a bad thing.


----------



## StanD

ab initio said:


> You guys really want to schiit on a glass table? Shouldnt somebody have made a glass bottom boat joke by now?
> 
> Cheers


 
 I can see through your Schiit.


----------



## Themorganlett85

madwolfa said:


> I don't think you will hear much difference between the two, as both were designed as super quiet and accurate amps.
> But looking at the specs alone, Valhalla 2 seems to be more natural fit for high impedance cans like HD650 and DT990.
> It's cheaper too.


 

 Awesome, that's the one I was leaning towards the most. Thank you


----------



## Wildcatsare1

themorganlett85 said:


> Awesome, that's the one I was leaning towards the most. Thank you




2nd on MW's recommendation, my original Valhalla is an excellent pairing with my 650's.


----------



## ab initio

tuco1965 said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing.


 
 you're probably right...
  


stand said:


> I can see through your Schiit.


 
 oh boy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 cheers


----------



## amnesiac75

Sorry guys went to bed as soon as I posted I got the stand from monoprice it's the 22 inch version just big enough to set 2 valhalla size amps with about 2 inches in between but the 27 inch version may be better since you would not have such a sharp bend for the audio cables.


----------



## amnesiac75

I would also suggest getting some rubber feet like I did to raise it about an inch and keep the built in leg extenders screwed all the way in it feels more stable that way.


----------



## Tuco1965

I really need to investigate this stand.


----------



## Byronb

yeah I need one for sure! Thanks for the info.


----------



## a-mal

Hi guys I am getting Grado RS1i's and was thinking of going schiit for amp/dac and was thinking valhalla 2/bifrost. Would this make a good combination? Thanks


----------



## madwolfa

a-mal said:


> Hi guys I am getting Grado RS1i's and was thinking of going schiit for amp/dac and was thinking valhalla 2/bifrost. Would this make a good combination? Thanks


 
  
 Valhalla would work less than optimal with low impedance cans like these. But it will work fine. I'd rather take Asgard 2 if you don't mind SS or Lyr 2 (if you really want tubes), though.


----------



## Rem0o

madwolfa said:


> Valhalla would work less than optimal with low impedance cans like these. But it will work fine. I'd rather take Asgard 2 if you don't mind SS or Lyr 2 (if you really want tubes), though.


 
 Nop. 3.5 ohm output is plenty fine with Grados.


----------



## madwolfa

rem0o said:


> Nop. 3.5 ohm output is plenty fine with Grados.


 
  
 That's if 'low gain' would be enough.


----------



## mwillits

Lots of great reading on this thread! I think I'm finally caught up with the posts (whew).
  
 It's taken a couple of years, but I finally have my complete Schiit setup at home and at work:
  
 At home I'm alternating between a Gungnir + Mjolnir combo with balanced Senn HD650s and a Gungnir + Lyr combo with AKG K712 Pros. Still deciding on the tubes I like in the Lyr. At work I have a Bifrost Uber + Asgard 2 into a pair of VMODA XS headphones (need to keep it quiet at work, and I like that I can take the VMODAs with me on-the-go...). 
  
 So far I'm extremely happy with both of my setups, but I'm still working on developing my "ear" for all the subtleties. The HD650 chain I find to be deeply engaging -- even intoxicating. The AKG K712 chain with the Lyr is a lot of fun to listen to, especially while swapping tubes to discover the nuances of music I didn't realize I had been missing.
  
 Might I be missing something with my setup at this point? A mismatch perhaps in gear? I know I could get more out of the at-work setup with a better set of headphones, but I need a closed, over-ear pair (i.e., that nobody near my desk can overhear as it's rather tight quarters). So, I'm still exploring the head-fi forums and online reviews for pair that will best compliment the Bifrost and Asgard.


----------



## jaywillin

mwillits said:


> Lots of great reading on this thread! I think I'm finally caught up with the posts (whew).
> 
> It's taken a couple of years, but I finally have my complete Schiit setup at home and at work:
> 
> ...


 

 you're set up looks very good to me ! as long as you're happy with the sound if it, i just looked at your inventory, the tele's are some of my favorite tubes !! more to my liking than most of the tubes i'd used, and i tried quite a few,


----------



## madwolfa

mwillits said:


> It's taken a couple of years, but I finally have my complete Schiit setup at home and at work:


 
  
 I think both your setups are great!


----------



## Billheiser

Brilliant systems! Can't see any weak spots there. But since we're human we can always come up w stuff... The XS are on ears, if I remember right. On ears sometimes bug me so I might look at over ear closed phones for comfort - eg, Momentums, focal, hp50, full size vmodas, etc. But that's just me projecting my personal ear comfort issues


----------



## reddog

Hello just a question how does the uber bifrost dac compare to fiio x5 dac? I know it's not fair to com p are the two for the x5 is portable and the schiit uber bifrost is desktop. But I was just curious, thanks.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

Finally caught up as well. With the announcements of the new Lyr and Valhalla 2's, does this mean the end of the famous "fully-upgradable" equipment in this price category?


----------



## hodgjy

symphonictxn7 said:


> Finally caught up as well. With the announcements of the new Lyr and Valhalla 2's, does this mean the end of the famous "fully-upgradable" equipment in this price category?


 
  
 Only some of their DACs are listed as upgradeable.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> Only some of their DACs are listed as upgradeable.


 
  
 Indeed. They never promised that for amps.


----------



## KLJTech

Its one thing to swap out an upgraded USB or analog stage plugin board for a DAC yet altogether different to upgrade an amp. The newer versions of the amps may have changes all over the board (including the power supply) and it doesn't appear to me (simply by looking a the pics) that you could even save the case as its doesn't have the holes needed for the gain switch or preamp outputs. 
  
 I've got to hand it to Schiit Audio, over the years I've seen companies advertise products as "upgradeable" yet _not many actually follow through_ and make available meaningful upgrades not only at a reasonable price but with the choice to do them yourself or have them done in-house by the manufacturer. I know some companies will upgrade your product, but I can't think of any off hand that does this at Schiit Audio's price points. 
  
 Keep in mind that just because a newer version of your AMP or DAC is now available that it doesn't lessen the performance of the product you already own. I do understand that it can be a bit of a bummer if you buy a product and a couple months later its replaced by a different version but just take a deep breath and recall how much you've been enjoying your music through your current model. Go find your so more music that you love, I find that this cures most anything. Good luck and enjoy your music!


----------



## amnesiac75

I know this subject has been discussed many times on head fi but i was wondering how much warm up time (not break in time) do you guys feel it takes your gear to sound optimal. I've noticed the valhalla sounds noticeably better after 1.5 - 2 hours and this time is pretty consistent day after day. Not sure if both my dac and amp warming up are improving the sound or if it's mostly the tubes.


----------



## kothganesh

amnesiac75 said:


> I know this subject has been discussed many times on head fi but i was wondering how much warm up time (not break in time) do you guys feel it takes your gear to sound optimal. I've noticed the valhalla sounds noticeably better after 1.5 - 2 hours and this time is pretty consistent day after day. Not sure if both my dac and amp warming up are improving the sound or if it's mostly the tubes.




I've always found that my tube amps sound fuller after 1-1.5 hours of use.


----------



## nigeljames

kothganesh said:


> I've always found that my tube amps sound fuller after 1-1.5 hours of use.


 
  
 I found that as well with my old Woo6SE.
  
 However I also feel my SS amp also benefits from an hour warm up for best results.


----------



## hodgjy

My tube gear usually came into its own around 1 hour and my solid state gear did so in under 20 minutes.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

Yup, I totally overlooked that key detail. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

tubes have an arc'd lifespan where they suck then sound great then die. lifespans vary greatly however


----------



## Wildcatsare1

A lot of high end tube gear has "soft start" circuits where the tubes are never powered down completely (my Audible Illusions (ok not high end) and my former VTL Amps included). For Head Fi Gear w/o is it better to leave it on for extended periods? Again, I have been told cold starts shorten tube life, what's the word Ya'll?


----------



## Tuco1965

I turn on my Lyr about an hour before listening and shut it off when done.


----------



## john57

wildcatsare1 said:


> A lot of high end tube gear has "soft start" circuits where the tubes are never powered down completely (my Audible Illusions (ok not high end) and my former VTL Amps included). For Head Fi Gear w/o is it better to leave it on for extended periods? Again, I have been told cold starts shorten tube life, what's the word Ya'll?


 
 Cold starts are like light blubs when usually blow when starting. However I have not noticed that issue issue with vacuum tubes. What I know about tube soft start is that the heaters will have a chance to warm up the tube before high voltage is applied.  A type of delayed start. That is what soft start means to me. Nothing to do with keeping anything on when off.


----------



## UmustBKidn

blackenedplague said:


> tubes have an arc'd lifespan where they suck then sound great then die. lifespans vary greatly however


 
  
 This phenomenon may be explained by understanding the concept of an Electron Hole. In particular, the analogy of an electron hole to an empty seat in an auditorium is most useful.
  
 No one likes a cold seat. It's much nicer to sit in a nice warm seat that has been occupied for a period of time. So, after a couple hours of operation, all of the Electron Holes have been warmed up, by virtue of electrons leaving the holes in favor of other positions within the auditorium.
  
 In most auditoriums, this amount of activity is discouraged. In fact, movie theaters will escort you out if you spend any appreciable time changing seats, texting on your cell phone, humping your neighbor, or dropping popcorn down the back of the tops of girls sitting in front of you. A notable exception to this would be the energetic activity of the audiences viewing the Rocky Horror Picture Show of the late 70's. People showing up dressed as Dr. Frank N. Furter generated the most positive audience approval, resulting sometimes in violent exchanges of popcorn between audience members. Not to mention the frequent exchanges of seating arrangements.
  
 In summary, tubes have an arced lifespan, where they suck then sound great then die. But when they sound great, well, it's a lot like good popcorn in a movie theater.


----------



## Tuco1965




----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I can live with that


----------



## StanD

What's next? Black Holes where sound enters but never leaves?


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> What's next? Black Holes where sound enters but never leaves?


 
  
 I thought it was ... If Schiit plays in the forest and nobody hears it, does it really make a sound.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> I thought it was ... If Schiit plays in the forest and nobody hears it, does it really make a sound.


 
 I'd recommend that you turn on the power switch.


----------



## mwillits

billheiser said:


> Brilliant systems! Can't see any weak spots there. But since we're human we can always come up w stuff... The XS are on ears, if I remember right. On ears sometimes bug me so I might look at over ear closed phones for comfort - eg, Momentums, focal, hp50, full size vmodas, etc. But that's just me projecting my personal ear comfort issues


 
  
 Thanks! Yes, the VMODA XS are on ears. Jude's First Look video sold me on them. I have average sized ears, so the XS feels very comfortable to me. I'd imagine the Momentums would work fine for me given what I've read so far: for over ears, the Momentums tend to be a bit smaller in fit than others. I tried searching for some comments on the Momentums paired with an Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber, but no luck yet (not surprised, unless I missed the thread somewhere). Guess I'll just have to order a pair and check them out for myself


----------



## psonoda

tuco1965 said:


> I thought it was ... If Schiit plays in the forest and nobody hears it, does it really make a sound.




No it doesn't. Making a sound requires three things: Event, Transmission and Reception. Without any of these things sound does not occur. 

The event is obvious. 

Transmission requires a suitable medium. For example, in a vacuum, there is no medium so in space you could have an event yet no sound. 

Reception (the question here) is the third component. If the the event and transmission result in a ultrasonic or infrasonic frequency, the human ear cannot receive it and is inaudible. The reception does not occur. So if reception does not occur, then sound cannot occur. 

I guess you could argue that it could it would be heard if someone was there. But isn't that a coulda woulda shoulda statement?


----------



## nigeljames

If an event occurs that produces sound and transmission is present, then what does whether anyone hears it or not matter.
  
 If a block of flats falls down it will make a lot of noise. If no one is around to hear it are you saying that it fell silently.
  
 Sound does not rely on ears to exist, if you have event causing sound and transmission then sound exists.


----------



## 45longcolt

To say that a sound doesn't exist because nobody hears it is like asserting there are no words in a book that isn't being read - philosophically valid perhaps but nonsensical in the real world.
  
 Also the tree-in-the-forest bit is unconscionably human-centric; what about the squirrels, deer and birds? Don't they count?


----------



## madwolfa

45longcolt said:


> To say that a sound doesn't exist because nobody hears it is like asserting there are no words in a book that isn't being read - philosophically valid perhaps but nonsensical in the real world.


 
  
 That also reminds me the subjective audiophilia philisophy... "If I hear the difference - it is there, despite all objective measurements".


----------



## Tuco1965

My statement was a joke take off from...if a tree falls in the forest, and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?
  
 Relax people.


----------



## Billheiser

Right. And that Zen koan is not to be taken too literally - even the rishis understood that sound would be generated by the crash even in the absence of a person. A koan is a sort of riddle to help one think in new ways.


----------



## StanD

Although I'm not one to speak, enough of this Schiit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If Apple buys Schitt will it be recast as iSchiit? I think prices would go up.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Although I'm not one to speak, enough of this Schiit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I pray to every god ever invented that Schiit has more integrity than that


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

stand said:


> Although I'm not one to speak, enough of this Schiit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's awesome.


----------



## psonoda

madwolfa said:


> That also reminds me the subjective audiophilia philisophy... "If I hear the difference - it is there, despite all objective measurements".




Hey everyone, 

I am sorry for taking this thread off topic. I was trying to be controversial and a little too philosophical. In my sarcastic way, I was just trying to say, if you don't hear it, does it exist. When something cannot be observed, how do we know it exists?

I base my thought statement in a loose interpretation of Schrödinger's cat thought theorem, where the cat is both alive and dead until observed. Upon closer reflection, I realize that my original answer was incorrect. Maybe I should have stated the answer as yes and no simultaneously until observed (heard or recorded by something) we don't know. 

But enough of this Schiit. I am sorry for taking this thread off track. 

I am new to Schiit and I have just purchased a Modi/Vali combo for my nightstand to power my Sennheiser HD 700. The sound is great. I am currently running it from my MacBook Air via Audirvana. I am quite pleased with the sound. 

My question is twofold. Can you run this stack with an iPad via powered usb hub? And,do you have a suggestion on other software that may be a better solution than my current setup. Thanks for your Input and patience.


----------



## psonoda

symphonictxn7 said:


> That's awesome.





stand said:


> Although I'm not one to speak, enough of this Schiit.   If Apple buys Schitt will it be recast as iSchiit? I think prices would go up.




It would definitely be better than if Google bought it. How would the Google marketing team present Google Schiit.


----------



## StanD

psonoda said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I am sorry for taking this thread off topic. I was trying to be controversial and a little too philosophical. In my sarcastic way, I was just trying to say, if you don't hear it, does it exist. When something cannot be observed, how do we know it exists?
> 
> ...


 
 If you have a recent iPad running ios 7 you can use the Lightning CCK (Camera Connection Kit) to a powered hub and then to the Modi. I run an iPod Touch 5G the same way to an Uber USB Bifrost and then Asgar 2, what a dream.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you have the iPod with a 30 pin connector there's a CCK for that as well.
 Software, I'd recommend Neutron MP, which is now available for ios. This has been around on Android for ages and is highly regarded. It has a parametric EQ that works like a charm. I've used it on Android for a very long time and now with the iPod Touch.


----------



## StanD

psonoda said:


> It would definitely be better than if Google bought it. How would the Google marketing team present Google Schiit.


 
 They could do that for Schitts and giggles.


----------



## psonoda

stand said:


> If you have a recent iPad running ios 7 you can use the Lightning CCK (Camera Connection Kit) to a powered hub and then to the Modi. I run an iPod Touch 5G the same way to an Uber USB Bifrost and then Asgar 2, what a dream.:happy_face1:
> If you have the iPod with a 30 pin connector there's a CCK for that as well.
> Software, I'd recommend Neutron MP, which is now available for ios. This has been around on Android for ages and is highly regarded. It has a parametric EQ that works like a charm. I've used it on Android for a very long time and now with the iPod Touch.




Thanks for the response. I already have the cck and usb for my old iphone ans new iPad mini. I am currently using this on my portable C5D setup. 

Does the type of powered usb hub matter? Do you have a recommendation? What kind are you using. Again thanks StanD.


----------



## networkn

stand said:


> They could do that for Schitts and giggles.


 
  
 You really missed a golden opportunity here. I think you meant to type Schiits and Googles


----------



## networkn

Well I am the new owner of a Schiit Bifrost first gen with USB. I have a Asus Xonar STX and I have connected the Schiit to it via SPDIF. The cable doesn't "click" in like it should. The same cable connects fine to my 2 other spdif connections. 
  
 Also given the STX has a DAC inbuilt, I presume I don't want it processed twice, so do I need to switch the STX into a specific mode please?
  
 In the Control Panel I have it set to 2 Channel , PCM192, Analog Out is set to "headphone" and SPDIF is ticked and set to PCM.
  
 There is an option to make it Dolby headphone which i don't think I want for music right?
  
 Also changing the sample rate doesn't seem to change how the sound works, does this mean the current file I am playing isn't suitable?
  
 Sorry for the newbie and confused questions


----------



## hodgjy

networkn said:


> Well I am the new owner of a Schiit Bifrost first gen with USB. I have a Asus Xonar STX and I have connected the Schiit to it via SPDIF. The cable doesn't "click" in like it should. The same cable connects fine to my 2 other spdif connections.
> 
> Also given the STX has a DAC inbuilt, I presume I don't want it processed twice, so do I need to switch the STX into a specific mode please?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Toslink cables don't always click into place. It's ok because it doesn't need a solid connection like metal cables do. As long as the receiver can see the cable lens, it will properly receive the signal.
  
 You only want to send PCM to the Bifrost.  Any other format will get rejected by it.
  
 Set the sample rate to the native rate of the file.  Upsampling is a debated topic, but it does have the potential to alter the quality of the sound if it is done poorly.


----------



## networkn

hodgjy said:


> Toslink cables don't always click into place. It's ok because it doesn't need a solid connection like metal cables do. As long as the receiver can see the cable lens, it will properly receive the signal.
> 
> You only want to send PCM to the Bifrost.  Any other format will get rejected by it.
> 
> Set the sample rate to the native rate of the file.  Upsampling is a debated topic, but it does have the potential to alter the quality of the sound if it is done poorly.


 
  
 Thanks. How do I know what the native rate of the file is ? I have a bunch of iTunes purchases, a Bunch of Imported CD's and some FLACS I ripped from CD.


----------



## hodgjy

networkn said:


> Thanks. How do I know what the native rate of the file is ? I have a bunch of iTunes purchases, a Bunch of Imported CD's and some FLACS I ripped from CD.


 
 iTunes and CD rips will be 16/44.1.


----------



## Rossliew

hodgjy said:


> iTunes and CD rips will be 16/44.1.




When i rip from cds, there is the option whether i want it in flac or wav or aiff, etc, will there be any difference sonically if i choose wav instead of aiff? The Cd is a regular cd. To my ears, i dont really notice any difference in sound quality.


----------



## hodgjy

rossliew said:


> When i rip from cds, there is the option whether i want it in flac or wav or aiff, etc, will there be any difference sonically if i choose wav instead of aiff? The Cd is a regular cd. To my ears, i dont really notice any difference in sound quality.


 
  
 Those are all lossless formats, so they will all sound the same as long as the decoder is properly written. Choose the format that is most convenient to you. For example, you want to load them on to a portable player.


----------



## Rossliew

hodgjy said:


> Those are all lossless formats, so they will all sound the same as long as the decoder is properly written. Choose the format that is most convenient to you. For example, you want to load them on to a portable player.




Does foobar decode it correctly? Its pretty cool one can rip lossless from a regular CD. Honestly, i cant tell the difference in sound quality from the cd itself .


----------



## madwolfa

rossliew said:


> Does foobar decode it correctly? Its pretty cool one can rip lossless from a regular CD. Honestly, i cant tell the difference in sound quality from the cd itself .


 
  
 There is no difference, FLAC is using a lossless mathematical algorithm (like ZIP for archives).
  
 Foobar2000 is as accurate as any player can get. Just make sure you are:
  
 1) Using WASAPI or ASIO output module for an exclusive, bit-perfect playback.
 The device output properties like sample rate will auto-adjust to a source material, so Windows setting wouldn't matter.
 2) Having your volume controls at 100% (both Windows and Foobar2000).
  
 With iTunes and other software (with no WASAPI/ASIO available), you'd have to match the output properties to a file, to avoid Windows' sample rate conversions.


----------



## hodgjy

rossliew said:


> Does foobar decode it correctly? Its pretty cool one can rip lossless from a regular CD. Honestly, i cant tell the difference in sound quality from the cd itself .


 
  
 Foobar is as good as they come. You'll be golden.


----------



## Rossliew

Many thanks, guys!


----------



## CJs06

psonoda said:


> It would definitely be better than if Google bought it. How would the Google marketing team present Google Schiit.




Schiiiiit, if Google bought up Schiit, they would take it all and lock it away in Google X... to include Jason and Mike. We would never see Jason or Mike or any kind of Schiit until it was too late. Next thing you know, its Judgement Day and out comes millions of cybernetic humanoid robots powered by Schiit.


----------



## DaemonSire

May not be "powered" by Schiit, but it would sound like Schiit


----------



## Barry S

In stock, boys--go get 'em! 
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10910&cs_id=1091002&p_id=9434&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Wildcatsare1

barry s said:


> In stock, boys--go get 'em!
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10910&cs_id=1091002&p_id=9434&seq=1&format=2




Mine are on the way! BTW, my invoice says you can get a $10.00 credit for referring a Friend, but doesn't say how to do it, a thought for the Gent who referred us to Monoprice for these shelves, anybody know how to give him credit?


----------



## Tuco1965

I was all fired up until I calculated shipping to Canada.  Over $50 US!  I don't think so.  Damn, now I have to build one.


----------



## StanD

psonoda said:


> Thanks for the response. I already have the cck and usb for my old iphone ans new iPad mini. I am currently using this on my portable C5D setup.
> 
> Does the type of powered usb hub matter? Do you have a recommendation? What kind are you using. Again thanks StanD.


 
 I used the one that was recommended by Schitt. It has a power switch that disconnects power from your DAC, etc without draining from your source device, great if you're using a smartphone or iPod, etc. Link below.
http://amazon.com/gp/product/B004OBZ088


----------



## Barry S

tuco1965 said:


> I was all fired up until I calculated shipping to Canada.  Over $50 US!  I don't think so.  Damn, now I have to build one.


 

 I don't get this at all. I thought NAFTA was supposed to eliminate all barriers to trade between the US, Canada, and Mexico.  Why is shipping so expensive and slow between our countries?


----------



## Tuco1965

barry s said:


> I don't get this at all. I thought NAFTA was supposed to eliminate all barriers to trade between the US, Canada, and Mexico.  Why is shipping so expensive and slow between our countries?


 
 I would love to know why.  I get stuff all the time from China with free shipping.  Go figure.


----------



## DaemonSire

barry s said:


> I don't get this at all. I thought NAFTA was supposed to eliminate all barriers to trade between the US, Canada, and Mexico.  Why is shipping so expensive and slow between our countries?


 
 Because the shipping companies can...
  
 NAFTA allows free-trade between our countries when products are made here (i.e. they won't charge 'duty').  It doesn't say how much the shipping companies can charge or how much they can charge to 'process' the customs fee.
  
 It's robbery...


----------



## joebobbilly

tuco1965 said:


> I was all fired up until I calculated shipping to Canada.  Over $50 US!  I don't think so.  Damn, now I have to build one.


 

 That... just made me tear up a bit.
  
 When I tidy up the place a touch, I might just save up and still do it even with shipping like that.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

rossliew said:


> When i rip from cds, there is the option whether i want it in flac or wav or aiff, etc, will there be any difference sonically if i choose wav instead of aiff? The Cd is a regular cd. To my ears, i dont really notice any difference in sound quality.


 
  
 It is literally pointless to have WAV files unless you are producing/mixing/mastering music, it's like having a hard drive full of RAW photos.
  
 Lossless formats are exactly that, compressed files in a way where no part of the file is thrown out. Are you using Exact Audio Copy?
  
 Now, the point of storing lossless files isn't whether you can tell a difference between lossy or not, it's about archiving. Let's take the photo once again as an example. Take a high resolution photo and convert it to JPG 10 times. Go on, do it (it took 10 minutes to load for me lol)


----------



## Rossliew

blackenedplague said:


> It is literally pointless to have WAV files unless you are producing/mixing/mastering music, it's like having a hard drive full of RAW photos.
> 
> Lossless formats are exactly that, compressed files in a way where no part of the file is thrown out. Are you using Exact Audio Copy?
> 
> Now, the point of storing lossless files isn't whether you can tell a difference between lossy or not, it's about archiving. Let's take the photo once again as an example. Take a high resolution photo and convert it to JPG 10 times. Go on, do it (it took 10 minutes to load for me lol)




Ok so are you saying i should be contented with 320 kbps files in place of so called hi res wav or flac? To be frank, i find 320 to be quite sufficient,even 16/44.1


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

rossliew said:


> Ok so are you saying i should be contented with 320 kbps files in place of so called hi res wav or flac? To be frank, i find 320 to be quite sufficient,even 16/44.1


 
  
  
 No I'm saying you should archive lossless files, and convert to Ogg Vorbis (better than mp3) for your portable player/phone


----------



## Rossliew

blackenedplague said:


> No I'm saying you should archive lossless files, and convert to Ogg Vorbis (better than mp3) for your portable player/phone




Got it. Thanks!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Received the Valhalla 2 today. Sounds good but I'm sure it will better when the tubes have settled. Unfortunately mine has a low volume hum noticeable only when I'm between music tracks and it's quiet. This must be the infamous tube amp hum.


----------



## Byronb

vitalstatistix said:


> Received the Valhalla 2 today. Sounds good but I'm sure it will better when the tubes have settled. Unfortunately mine has a low volume hum noticeable only when I'm between music tracks and it's quiet. This must be the infamous tube amp hum.


 
 Do you have a Valhalla 1 to compare it to? Interested to see if it is a worthy upgrade from SQ perspective or if it is just a functional upgrade.


----------



## StanD

vitalstatistix said:


> Received the Valhalla 2 today. Sounds good but I'm sure it will better when the tubes have settled. Unfortunately mine has a low volume hum noticeable only when I'm between music tracks and it's quiet. This must be the infamous tube amp hum.


 
 I'll bet that you shouldn't have this. Make sure that it isn't a ground loop. If it's the amp, contact Schiit's customer service, they are very responsive and aim to please.


----------



## Tuco1965

You shouldn't have a hum.  There is no infamous tube amp hum.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Yep, most probably a ground loop. You can test this with a 3-prong to 2-prong AC cord adapter temporarily, then use something like a HumX or ground loop isolator for long-term safety.


----------



## RickB

I was able to eliminate a ground loop on my system (Asgard 2) by plugging my source (laptop) and the amp into the same powerstrip. Previously they were on outlets on different walls and I had a hum. My Modi DAC, of course, is just USB powered, but I also have a powered USB hub plugged into the same powerstrip.


----------



## madwolfa

rickb said:


> I was able to eliminate a ground loop on my system (Asgard 2) by plugging my source (laptop) and the amp into the same powerstrip. Previously they were on outlets on different walls and I had a hum. My Modi DAC, of course, is just USB powered, but I also have a powered USB hub plugged into the same powerstrip.


 
  
 ^^^ this. As long as I have all the components (source -> DAC -> amp) connected to the same powerstrip, I have no hum.
 When either of them is connected to another outlet - I have the hum, hence I'm using an optical S/PDIF to connect my PC to the living room DAC, making a galvanic isolation between them.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tuco1965 said:


> You shouldn't have a hum.  There is no infamous tube amp hum.




Tucco is correct you should not have hum, my Valhalla is silent, probably a ground loop problem.

On another note, my Lyr 2 gets here tomorrow!!!!


----------



## Vitalstatistix

.


----------



## Vitalstatistix

.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Interesting finding, just received my 1/8 to 1/4 adapter from TTVJ that was missing on my PSB M4U1's that I have been using out straight out from my IPhone or with an E17 for portable use. OK HP's, for that use, fairly linear with a bit of a leaky treble, the opposite of my 650's. Well for Schiit's and grins hooked them up to my Valhalla, that combos not supposed to work, right? Wrong! Who knew these Star Wars props could actually put flesh on the bones, have realistic weight in the bass, and have a smoother (not smooth) treble?!? New appreciation for the original Valhalla, my Lyr 2 is supposed to be here tomorrow, can't wait! I am seeing a Valhalla 2 in my future as well. 

That would be "peaky" treble, damn spell checker


----------



## Vitalstatistix

Thanks guys!


----------



## Radioking59

vitalstatistix said:


> Regarding the hum in my Valhalla 2, is it odd that the hum gets amplified ie gets louder when I turn the volume up? Does this finding suggest a ground loop problem or amp problem?




Is it in both channels or just one?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

vitalstatistix said:


> Regarding the hum in my Valhalla 2, is it odd that the hum gets amplified ie gets louder when I turn the volume up? Does this finding suggest a ground loop problem or amp problem?




IMO, either your source or DAC is the site of the hum and your Valhalla is just amplifying it. Do you have all three plugged into a noise suppressing power source/strip?


----------



## Vitalstatistix

.


----------



## redcat2

vitalstatistix said:


> The hum is there in both channels (seems louder on the right) even without the RCA cables connected, and gets louder as volume is increased. The hum is reduced significantly when RCA cables are plugged in.
> 
> Don't have a noise suppressing power strip - worth investing? Any recommendation?


 

 Thats a grounding issue , your plugging something in and it is acting as a bit of a grounding cable.


----------



## Currawong

I have a Valhalla 2 in for review now, the result of a chat I had with Jason in LA in March. Apart from an Asgard at a meet years ago, I've never owned or even tried any Schiit products.
  
 A quick run-through of the headphones I have on hand has the Vahalla working with even the LCD-X I have here, but it isn't a great match, though I'll probably give them another go once it has had some hours of use. The HD-800s on the other hand are much better, not surprisingly.


----------



## kothganesh

currawong said:


> I have a Valhalla 2 in for review now, the result of a chat I had with Jason in LA in March. Apart from an Asgard at a meet years ago, I've never owned or even tried any Schiit products.
> 
> A quick run-through of the headphones I have on hand has the Vahalla working with even the LCD-X I have here, but it isn't a great match. The HD-800s on the other hand are much better, not surprisingly. I'm using a Geek Out as the DAC for the rig.


 
 Amos,
  
 how do you connect the Geek Out to the Valhalla (or any other amp) ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## 65535

I can't guarantee what cable exactly, but he'd be using an 1/8" Stereo mini TRS to dual L/R RCA cable.


----------



## kothganesh

65535 said:


> I can't guarantee what cable exactly, but he'd be using an 1/8" Stereo mini TRS to dual L/R RCA cable.


 
 Thanks, got it.


----------



## Currawong

kothganesh said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Valhalla 2 in for review now, the result of a chat I had with Jason in LA in March. Apart from an Asgard at a meet years ago, I've never owned or even tried any Schiit products.
> ...


 
  
 I use a mini-to-RCA cable. Years ago I bought an Audioquest Mini-3 for this kind of thing, but anything like it will do (eg: Monoprice), or you can get something simple or fancy from any of the headphone cable makers here.


----------



## kothganesh

currawong said:


> I use a mini-to-RCA cable. Years ago I bought an Audioquest Mini-3 for this kind of thing, but anything like it will do (eg: Monoprice), or you can get something simple or fancy from any of the headphone cable makers here.


 
 Thanks. The price range is crazy - from $ 6 on ebay to the audioquest....sheesh


----------



## 65535

I've made some really nice TRS split out cables with nylon multifilament sleeving they cost about $20 to make depending on connectors. Not sure how much shipping is to India but unless you need something super durable and with good aesthetics your generic cable is about the best bet.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

currawong said:


> I use a mini-to-RCA cable. Years ago I bought an Audioquest Mini-3 for this kind of thing, but anything like it will do (eg: Monoprice), or you can get something simple or fancy from any of the headphone cable makers here.


 
  
  
 Don't get me started on cables...


----------



## CJs06

blackenedplague said:


> Don't get me started on cables...



True that


----------



## Currawong

blackenedplague said:


> Don't get me started on cables...


 
  
 Don't get yourself started. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyhow, I wanted to ask what people's experiences were with tube rolling the Valhalla. I thought I might hit eBay or the tube shop in Taiwan (since it is near Fukuoka and cheap) to find some inexpensive tubes to roll, for fun.


----------



## hodgjy

currawong said:


> Don't get yourself started.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 When I had the Valhalla 1 (rollable edition), I thought the stock Russian tubes were the best. I tried Sylvania 6DJ8 and Phillips JAN 6922, and the Russians had less grain and more bass.


----------



## StanD

currawong said:


> Don't get yourself started.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is the beginning of an addiction. First you'll start on inexpensive tubes and then you'll be looking for the good stuff. Back in the '70s I had a nice box full of audio tubes for guitar amps that I gave away to friends. Who would know they'd be in such demand today.


----------



## gahung

I got my Asgard 2 this morning. After two hours' use it has become really hot that I think I can cook on the amp. Is this normal to other amps? I can't even adjust the volume because of the temperature.


----------



## madwolfa

gahung said:


> I got my Asgard 2 this morning. After two hours' use it has become really hot that I think I can cook on the amp. Is this normal to other amps? I can't even adjust the volume because of the temperature.


 
  
 Yes, this is normal. Welcome to Class A amplification.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gahung said:


> I got my Asgard 2 this morning. After two hours' use it has become really hot that I think I can cook on the amp. Is this normal to other amps? I can't even adjust the volume because of the temperature.




My Lyr 2 came this morning, same here, biased well into class A. My main system has a giant Krell Amp, same result, a great space heater during the Winter, a sauna during Summer . 

This beast has a chokehold on the 650's low end, no muddy, diffuse bass here, mid's have a bit of tube magic, haven't listened to any jazz or classical yet, so the top ends a bit of a mystery yet. Now if I can have the patience to learn the amps basic sound before I start rolling tubes!!!


----------



## gahung

Well, that really surprise me because it's even hotter than my dad's AV receiver but I guess the size also matters. Is the Asgard 2 a good choice for HE400?


----------



## gahung

wildcatsare1 said:


> My Lyr 2 came this morning, same here, biased well into class A. My main system has a giant Krell Amp, same result, a great space heater during the Winter, a sauna during Summer .
> 
> This beast has a chokehold on the 650's low end, no muddy, diffuse bass here, mid's have a bit of tube magic, haven't listened to any jazz or classical yet, so the top ends a bit of a mystery yet. Now if I can have the patience to learn the amps basic sound before I start rolling tubes!!!


 
 I like the sound on Asgard. I can hear more detail now with my HE400 than when I used K550 with a op amp Cmoy, but there seems to be some humming sometimes. I listen to CDs, so does the noise come from the source(recording problem)?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gahung said:


> I like the sound on Asgard. I can hear more detail now with my HE400 than when I used K550 with a op amp Cmoy, but there seems to be some humming sometimes. I listen to CDs, so does the noise come from the source(recording problem)?




Probably a ground loop, you could plug it in with a two prong "cheater" or I am using a Sound Wedge that isolates and "traps" (so they say) noise. Though with everything plugged into my two "wedges" I have never had any hum issues. Monster and others make similar, less expensive products.


----------



## gahung

wildcatsare1 said:


> Probably a ground loop, you could plug it in with a two prong "cheater" or I am using a Sound Wedge that isolates and "traps" (so they say) noise. Though with everything plugged into my two "wedges" I have never had any hum issues. Monster and others make similar, less expensive products.



Thanks for your information man. I will try it later.


----------



## themoddingden

hi;
 just joined the rank i got a MAGNI from 
Billheiser before this I was useing the cmoy  amp .
very happy thus far oh though I can tell a bad recording more now .
Ad700 headohones love it .
next is the usb dac from them.


----------



## Byronb

themoddingden said:


> hi;
> just joined the rank i got a MAGNI from
> Billheiser before this I was useing the cmoy  amp .
> very happy thus far oh though I can tell a bad recording more now .
> ...


 
 Welcome to the family!!!


----------



## Rossliew

currawong said:


> Don't get yourself started.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Amos, you can get some relatively inexpensive Russian tubes from Mr. Tom here on the forums. Generic brands but good sounding with the Valhalla. His 6N23Ps are a very good pairing with the original Valhalla i used to own. Did wonders to the soundstage and airiness.


----------



## CJs06

currawong said:


> Don't get yourself started.
> 
> Anyhow, I wanted to ask what people's experiences were with tube rolling the Valhalla. I thought I might hit eBay or the tube shop in Taiwan (since it is near Fukuoka and cheap) to find some inexpensive tubes to roll, for fun.



Have you browsed mercedesman's inventory on eBay? He has a great selection of matched pairs for decent prices.


----------



## IncredulousD

Hey folks - quick question from a HD800/Essence STX owner. Am I able to run RCA out directly into a Valhalla 2? After the Tom's Hardware look at DACs, I have no interest in dropping hundreds on a duplicate DAC if my STX will be able to put out to the Valhalla. Thoughts?


----------



## 65535

In fact that's your only option to connect it.


----------



## IncredulousD

Ah, I thought I could optical out into the Bitfrost, etc. I'd prefer to just directly RCA in so if it will work then I am looking forward to trying out the Valhalla 2!
  
 vvv Great, appreciate the confirmation on that!


----------



## 65535

You could do either, the analog into a Valhalla is cheaper.


----------



## KLJTech

You could pick up a Biforst and connect it via the coaxial S/PDIF from the STX (I did that for a while on a business PC) or just stay with the STX as your source and use the RCA outputs to the headphone amp. It all depends on if you'd like to get into an outboard DAC or not. If you buy the (upgradeable) Bifrost with the USB input that would free you up to sell your STX. The STX is a good sounding card so it simply depends on which way you want to go. Best of luck!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

This might be a question of placebo, but does the environment of the computer affect the d/a conversion on the STX?


----------



## TeskR

blackenedplague said:


> This might be a question of placebo, but does the environment of the computer affect the d/a conversion on the STX?


 
  
 I don't think it should theoretically, maybe increased network traffic on a nearby wireless receiver might?


----------



## Netrum

I used to have the STX card.
And i got rid of it when i got my Modi.
The modi for me is superior to the STX card.
Also the modi is not prone to interference inside the computer case.
Something that was a huge problem for me with my stx card.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Does anyone have experience with the Musiland digital times? It is supposed to be purely digital out without any interference with the operating system, is this correct?


----------



## 65535

I don't know why you'd bother, no matter what you do the CPU will still have to process the file before it gets sent to the output device. Might as well use USB on a standalone in that case. Or use an internal sound card.
  
 It's possible for sound quality to take a hit if your CPU gets loaded up or the PCI buss hits its bandwidth limit you'll get signal dropout and noise. This usually doesn't happen unless you set your buffer stupidly low.


----------



## SAR14

Mine is a lyr. No problem with my HE-400 (canare mini quad and alpha pads) but not the best with my W1000x. Too much noise with this one.
Does anyone know if there are (not expensive) tubes with very low noise or no noise at all ?
I wish my little woodie can be as good on my lyr as it is on the lake people G103 a friend lent me.
I know it is completely different but I want to keep my lyr and enjoy all my headphones at the same time. Is it possible ?

As you may have noticed I am french, so I need a seller who ships outside the US.


----------



## kothganesh

sar14 said:


> Mine is a lyr. No problem with my HE-400 (canare mini quad and alpha pads) but not the best with my W1000x. Too much noise with this one.
> Does anyone know if there are (not expensive) tubes with very low noise or no noise at all ?
> I wish my little woodie can be as good on my lyr as it is on the lake people G103 a friend lent me.
> I know it is completely different but I want to keep my lyr and enjoy all my headphones at the same time. Is it possible ?
> ...


 
 My experience with mercedesman on Ebay has been excellent. I live in India. See of you can get the Amperex Bugle Boys tubes. They work very very well with the Lyr.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kothganesh said:


> My experience with mercedesman on Ebay has been excellent. I live in India. See of you can get the Amperex Bugle Boys tubes. They work very very well with the Lyr.




+1, installed a pair of Amprex, Bugle Boy, Hollands into my Lyr. 2 earlier this evening, an excellent pairing.


----------



## HPiper

My Valhalla 2 will be here Thursday. Can anyone tell me if the 2 takes the same tubes as the model 1 did? Is there a thread here somewhere for tube rolling on the Valhalla?


----------



## Kiyoshi22

New Member to the site and beginner to all of this. This community is the best thing I stumbled upon 
  
 Currently running Foobar, Xonar D2X, Coaxial to Bifrost Uber, Valhalla, DT880/600 ohms. I use them with the gel pads that got discontinued.
  
 I love this setup but was hoping for opinions on whether my setup is actually correct and perhaps some suggestions for other headphones to horde as well. Don't really want to get a HD650 - I tried them and didn't care for them.
  
 Fan of trance with female vocals. Love electronica as well as post-rock. Also a gamer at heart ^_^ so sound stage is very important to me.


----------



## Rossliew

hpiper said:


> My Valhalla 2 will be here Thursday. Can anyone tell me if the 2 takes the same tubes as the model 1 did? Is there a thread here somewhere for tube rolling on the Valhalla?


 
 Yes, it uses the same tubes. There is a thread on tube rolling for Valhalla and Lyr, both offer good insights on tube sound sigs.


----------



## StanD

kiyoshi22 said:


> New Member to the site and beginner to all of this. This community is the best thing I stumbled upon
> 
> Currently running Foobar, Xonar D2X, Coaxial to Bifrost Uber, Valhalla, DT880/600 ohms. I use them with the gel pads that got discontinued.
> 
> ...


 
 You might want to give a listen to the HD600's. You might like the HE-500's, but on a different amp due to impedance and power requirements.


----------



## madwolfa

kiyoshi22 said:


> I love this setup but was hoping for opinions on whether my setup is actually correct and perhaps some suggestions for other headphones to horde as well. Don't really want to get a HD650 - I tried them and didn't care for them.


 
 Don't see anything wrong with your setup, really.
  
 And welcome to the club!


----------



## Xdaggersoul

Yes they use the same tubes


----------



## Rossliew

Am enjoying myself a lot with my modest Schiit stack - Vali/Modi driving a pair of HD800 on stock cables. Wondering if I should get the Magni to drive my LCD-XC (just to complete the mini-Schiit stack). Anyone have impressions on the Magni/XC combo?
  
 Vali/XC sounds decent but a bit thin - clearly Vali is insufficient to drive the XC well but commendable effort nonetheless.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

rossliew said:


> Am enjoying myself a lot with my modest Schiit stack - Vali/Modi driving a pair of HD800 on stock cables. Wondering if I should get the Magni to drive my LCD-XC (just to complete the mini-Schiit stack). Anyone have impressions on the Magni/XC combo?
> 
> Vali/XC sounds decent but a bit thin - clearly Vali is insufficient to drive the XC well but commendable effort nonetheless.


 
 Why do you want to get the Magni to drive the XC? It is able to drive planar though.


----------



## TeskR

rossliew said:


> Am enjoying myself a lot with my modest Schiit stack - Vali/Modi driving a pair of HD800 on stock cables. Wondering if I should get the Magni to drive my LCD-XC (just to complete the mini-Schiit stack). Anyone have impressions on the Magni/XC combo?
> 
> Vali/XC sounds decent but a bit thin - clearly Vali is insufficient to drive the XC well but commendable effort nonetheless.


 
  
 No experience with the Magni and XC but the Magni certainly drives my planars (Alpha Dogs) quite decently for a little amp


----------



## Rossliew

Just thought it'd be a good bargain and less hassle of tube rolling. Plug and play then forget about it : )


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> Just thought it'd be a good bargain and less hassle of tube rolling. Plug and play then forget about it : )


 
 If you want clean, the Magni is an affordable wonder as in wonderful.


----------



## Rossliew

stand said:


> If you want clean, the Magni is an affordable wonder as in wonderful.


 
 Hopefully the sound with the XC will be full bodied..not sure if 1.2W is sufficient for the XC.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

rossliew said:


> Hopefully the sound with the XC will be full bodied..not sure if 1.2W is sufficient for the XC.


 
 I drove my HE-6 with the magni(max) to a decent volume and by this, I think it is sufficient for the XC. But the XC will benefit from a much more powerful amp. Using with the magni will have a very thin bass.


----------



## Kiwikat

Well life threw a curve ball and I'm back into the hobby sooner than I thought I'd be (what a bummer, lol).  I left off with HD650's, Gen 1 Lyr, and Gen 1 Bifrost, and I'll be returning a notch or two higher with the LCD-X, Mjolnir, and Gungnir.  Hopefully they'll pair well with the LCD-X.  I've seen several other Head-Fiers with the same setup, so it must not suck too bad. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Proud to own some Schiit again!


----------



## Rossliew

xdaggersoul said:


> I drove my HE-6 with the magni(max) to a decent volume and by this, I think it is sufficient for the XC. But the XC will benefit from a much more powerful amp. Using with the magni will have a very thin bass.


 
 Precisely my concern. Despite the XC's relatively high sensitivity, they should ideally be paired with a more powerful amp. But at $99, do you think it's worth a try?


----------



## Rossliew

kiwikat said:


> Well life threw a curve ball and I'm back into the hobby sooner than I thought I'd be (what a bummer, lol).  I left off with HD650's, Gen 1 Lyr, and Gen 1 Bifrost, and I'll be returning a notch or two higher with the LCD-X, Mjolnir, and Gungnir.  Hopefully they'll pair well with the LCD-X.  I've seen several other Head-Fiers with the same setup, so it must not suck too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Did you order the Mjolnir & Gungnir from Schiit directly ?


----------



## Kiwikat

rossliew said:


> Did you order the Mjolnir & Gungnir from Schiit directly ?


 

 Yes, I feel like that is a loaded question though.  Should I not have?  They went above and beyond when I ordered my Lyr and Bifrost.


----------



## Rossliew

kiwikat said:


> Yes, I feel like that is a loaded question though.  Should I not have?  They went above and beyond when I ordered my Lyr and Bifrost.


 
 Please don't misunderstand me. I tried ordering a Mjolnir recently but it seems there is a delay in production and it wouldn't be available indefinitely. I'm also looking for an MJ myself.


----------



## Kiwikat

rossliew said:


> Please don't misunderstand me. I tried ordering a Mjolnir recently but it seems there is a delay in production and it wouldn't be available indefinitely. I'm also looking for an MJ myself.


 

 Hmmm the site says In Stock, I guess I'll see if I hear something back from them saying otherwise.  They used to be good about updating the stock status on the website.


----------



## Defiant00

rossliew said:


> Precisely my concern. Despite the XC's relatively high sensitivity, they should ideally be paired with a more powerful amp. But at $99, do you think it's worth a try?


 
  
 Magni was quite good when I had it for a while with LCD-2s; I'd expect it to work just as well with the XC.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

rossliew said:


> Precisely my concern. Despite the XC's relatively high sensitivity, they should ideally be paired with a more powerful amp. But at $99, do you think it's worth a try?


 
 To be frank with you, when I said it can drive planar headphones, it meant that it can provide enough volume that you need from it. But in terms of sound quality, I prefer my DT 990 Pro with the Magni instead of the HE-6 as the bass of the HE-6 was very thin when used with the Magni. I would suggest you to save up and buy a better amp for the XC as you might possibly hunting for another amp shortly after using it with the XC.


----------



## Rossliew

kiwikat said:


> Hmmm the site says In Stock, I guess I'll see if I hear something back from them saying otherwise.  They used to be good about updating the stock status on the website.


 
 I'd suggest you write in to ask on the shipping status - that's what I did and then only did I get a reply stating production may be delayed up to a month or more. Still, they replied promptly and cancelled my payment since I didn't want to wait that long. I feel Schiit should update the status in their website.


----------



## Rossliew

xdaggersoul said:


> To be frank with you, when I said it can drive planar headphones, it meant that it can provide enough volume that you need from it. But in terms of sound quality, I prefer my DT 990 Pro with the Magni instead of the HE-6 as the bass of the HE-6 was very thin when used with the Magni. I would suggest you to save up and buy a better amp for the XC as you might possibly hunting for another amp shortly after using it with the XC.


 
 That's a good point there. Was thinking of the MJ but since production has been delayed, I'm kinda lost as to another affordable alternative. The Ragnarok looks good but a bit pricey for me now.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

rossliew said:


> That's a good point there. Was thinking of the MJ but since production has been delayed, I'm kinda lost as to another affordable alternative. The Ragnarok looks good but a bit pricey for me now.


 
 You can wait for the MJ to be in stock. Ragnarok is a powerful amp which also can drive speakers. But I guess if you only want to use headphones, might as well get the MJ instead and spend the remaining money on a quality DAC.


----------



## StanD

xdaggersoul said:


> I drove my HE-6 with the magni(max) to a decent volume and by this, I think it is sufficient for the XC. But the XC will benefit from a much more powerful amp. Using with the magni will have a very thin bass.


 
 How will more power than one would even need during a transient or peak be useful? Perhaps there's some expectation bias in the calculus?


----------



## Billheiser

What sonic differences do you hear (or not) between little Vali and bigger Valhalla (v. 1 or 2)?
Glad to hear if there are certain differences or not. Prefer to hear from direct experience.


----------



## joebobbilly

kiwikat said:


> Well life threw a curve ball and I'm back into the hobby sooner than I thought I'd be (what a bummer, lol).  I left off with HD650's, Gen 1 Lyr, and Gen 1 Bifrost, and I'll be returning a notch or two higher with the LCD-X, Mjolnir, and Gungnir.  Hopefully they'll pair well with the LCD-X.  I've seen several other Head-Fiers with the same setup, so it must not suck too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I would be quite curious to hear your thoughts on this combo when you spend some solid time with it!


----------



## Kiwikat

rossliew said:


> I'd suggest you write in to ask on the shipping status - that's what I did and then only did I get a reply stating production may be delayed up to a month or more. Still, they replied promptly and cancelled my payment since I didn't want to wait that long. I feel Schiit should update the status in their website.


 

 I just got my tracking number for my order, so it looks like they had one for me.  You might want to contact them again?
  
 I am so excited!  Get the X's tomorrow and the Schiit sometime early next week.


----------



## Rossliew

kiwikat said:


> I just got my tracking number for my order, so it looks like they had one for me.  You might want to contact them again?
> 
> I am so excited!  Get the X's tomorrow and the Schiit sometime early next week.


 
 Thanks for the heads-up...did you get the tracking for the Gungnir only or for the MJ as well?


----------



## Kiwikat

rossliew said:


> Thanks for the heads-up...did you get the tracking for the Gungnir only or for the MJ as well?


 

 I would guess it will come as one shipment.  Don't see any reason they'd ship them separately.  There's nothing stating that they were split up.  In the past they contacted me when they couldn't ship my previous order together.  I changed my order to a Lyr back then and they put them in the same box.


----------



## Rossliew

kiwikat said:


> I would guess it will come as one shipment.  Don't see any reason they'd ship them separately.  There's nothing stating that they were split up.  In the past they contacted me when they couldn't ship my previous order together.  I changed my order to a Lyr back then and they put them in the same box.



 


Great! I just shot the Customer Service a mail to confirm before I place my order : )


----------



## Xdaggersoul

stand said:


> How will more power than one would even need during a transient or peak be useful? Perhaps there's some expectation bias in the calculus?


 
 More power will be able to give you more headroom. It can also help in the bass department.


----------



## StanD

xdaggersoul said:


> More power will be able to give you more headroom. It can also help in the bass department.


 
 More power does not help in the bass department if the amp can deliver as much or more power than the headphone is rated for. The same can be said for headroom. For most people, they listen to popular or contemprary music which is limited or compressed (not mp3 data compression), so the need for large amounts of headroom are not there. In the case of such compressed music, should one listen at volumes so large as to push an Asgard 2 or Magni to their limits would most likely result in hearing damage. Surely something that none of us want. Not many headphones have the power demands of an HE-6 so gobs of power are not usually needed. Even if you're listening to classical music or acoustic jazz there's enough noise and incidental sound that affects the DR and that listening at a reasonably loud level should still fall within the power of such amps.
 So rather than just shoot my mouth off, let's go through the numbers. An example is the *HE-500* a headphone with more than average power demands.
  
 1W will deliver 119 dB SPL, extremely loud and would lead to hearing damage if one is exposed to excessively.
 90 dB SPL requires only 1.26 mW
  
 Few people listen at 90dB SPL average.
  
 If one is listening at 85 db SPL, they will need 39.8 mW
  
 It is unlikely that one will need the 44 dB of headroom which would require 1W peak power.. The Asgard 2 can deliver 1W of continuous power, the Magni slightly more at 1.2W.


----------



## mwillits

Hey folks - what do you think might be the cause of a slight hum from only the right XLR pre-out on my Mjolnir amp? The left pre-out and the front ports are all dead silent. There's nothing else connected to the amp inputs, and I tried swapping the left and right cables to my powered Airmotiv Emotiva 4S speakers. As expected, the hum was evident in the left speaker now connected to the right XLR pre-out on the amp. So the problem isn't from the speakers, but seemingly the right pre-out on the amp. I tried cheater plugs on the amp power cord and both speaker power cords thinking it was a ground loop issue but still the hum remains. And if it were a ground loop problem why only the right side and not both?

If I missed anything let me know and I'll check it out.


----------



## KLJTech

If you switched out the cables and the problem stayed on the same side my "guess" would be that the connection for the XLR output may be shorting out (solder joint may have come loose). I'd contact Schiit Audio and see what they have to say...they're great with communication so you'll know pretty quickly. Good luck!


----------



## fenderf4i

Are there any specs that show if an amp can maintain a certain amount of output power for a certain amount of time? What about amps that have a lot of standby capacitance for bursts of power/transients etc when needed? How do two amps that each put out 1 watt, but have different sizes of power supplies and standby capacitance differ?


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Are there any specs that show if an amp can maintain a certain amount of output power for a certain amount of time? What about amps that have a lot of standby capacitance for bursts of power/transients etc when needed? How do two amps that each put out 1 watt, but have different sizes of power supplies and standby capacitance differ?


 
 1W *RMS* means *continuous*. That's much better than 1W peak. I think RMS is what you are looking for. The boys at Schiit spec RMS, they don't Schiit around. Knowing them, their specs are probably conservative. See my previous post about how 1W peak would equat to 119 dB SPL on a HE-500. That should cover transients and a busted eardrum if one opts turning up the dial for too long.


----------



## fenderf4i

Oh yeah, of course. And that makes sense when Jason said the Magni hits 2 watts at clipping, but it's specs say it can do 1 watt continuous. Cool.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Oh yeah, of course. And that makes sense when Jason said the Magni hits 2 watts at clipping, but it's specs say it can do 1 watt continuous. Cool.


 
 Even better the Magni is spec'd for 1.2W RMS at 32 Ohms. It's the Asgard 2 that's 1W RMS at 32 Ohms. It's all good Schiit.


----------



## Rossliew

I placed an order for the Magni and Bifrost uber to see how it pairs with the XC. As it is, the Modi/Vali/XC pairing sounds decent and wholesome.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

stand said:


> More power does not help in the bass department if the amp can deliver as much or more power than the headphone is rated for. The same can be said for headroom. For most people, they listen to popular or contemprary music which is limited or compressed (not mp3 data compression), so the need for large amounts of headroom are not there. In the case of such compressed music, should one listen at volumes so large as to push an Asgard 2 or Magni to their limits would most likely result in hearing damage. Surely something that none of us want. Not many headphones have the power demands of an HE-6 so gobs of power are not usually needed. Even if you're listening to classical music or acoustic jazz there's enough noise and incidental sound that affects the DR and that listening at a reasonably loud level should still fall within the power of such amps.
> So rather than just shoot my mouth off, let's go through the numbers. An example is the *HE-500* a headphone with more than average power demands.
> 
> 1W will deliver 119 dB SPL, extremely loud and would lead to hearing damage if one is exposed to excessively.
> ...


 
 If the amp can provide sufficient power to the intended headphones, the bass would be optimal. But in the case of the Magni paired with the HE-500, the Magni's 1W RMS is capable of driving the HE-500's to loud volume as the numbers also has shown that it can get loud with low power. But in the case of the Magni driving the HE-6, that is a totally different story as HE-6 is a very inefficient headphones that require high power for the headphone. But I do agree on your stand that the Magni and Asgard 2 will be able to drive the HE-500 to loud volumes.


----------



## Sasasd

New happy Schiit Modi+Vali owner here. Sounds fantastic with my HE400s. I was wondering is my Modi detecting right in W7? With FiiO E10 I got to select which sampling rates are supported and there was no enchanments tab also...
  
  
  
  
  
 .


----------



## jaywillin

sasasd said:


> New happy Schiit Modi+Vali owner here. Sounds fantastic with my HE400s. I was wondering is my Modi detecting right in W7? With FiiO E10 I got to select which sampling rates are supported and there was no enchanments tab also...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 its been a while since i had my modi, but that looks correct to me


----------



## StanD

xdaggersoul said:


> If the amp can provide sufficient power to the intended headphones, the bass would be optimal. But in the case of the Magni paired with the HE-500, the Magni's 1W RMS is capable of driving the HE-500's to loud volume as the numbers also has shown that it can get loud with low power. But in the case of the Magni driving the HE-6, that is a totally different story as HE-6 is a very inefficient headphones that require high power for the headphone. But I do agree on your stand that the Magni and Asgard 2 will be able to drive the HE-500 to loud volumes.


 
 I did bring up the point of the HE-6's power hungry character. I believe that few people in the general population of headphone owners require such wattage and would need an amp capable of dimming the lights sharing the same mains circuit. I would think that your Auralic is up to the job. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I believe that everyone should take a moment to listen to a pair of Orthodynamic cans, once done, I ordered a pair of HE-500's. They are excellent for developing one's neck muscles.


----------



## madwolfa

sasasd said:


> New happy Schiit Modi+Vali owner here. Sounds fantastic with my HE400s. I was wondering is my Modi detecting right in W7? With FiiO E10 I got to select which sampling rates are supported and there was no enchanments tab also...


 
  
 Have you installed C-Media USB driver from the Schiit website?


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Have you installed C-Media USB driver from the Schiit website?


 
 I don't think that the Modi requires any drivers when operating under Windoze. The drivers are required by the Bifrost and Gungnir.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I don't think that the Modi requires any drivers when operating under Windoze. The drivers are required by the Bifrost and Gungner.


 
  
 I see that it's using the same USB chip, but probably different firmware (USB Audio 1.0, hence no driver required).


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> I see that it's using the same USB chip, but probably different firmware (USB Audio 1.0, hence no driver required).


 
 Yep the Bifrost and Gungnir seem to run USB Audio 2 which the standard Windoze drivers are incapable of dealing with or scaling back. A mere iPod Touch 5G, as is, can deal with my Bifrost without having to do anything special. I'm really liking my Bifrost.


----------



## Sasasd

Well, its working like it should so no worry I guess.


----------



## fenderf4i

I believe the drivers are needed when going above 96khz, and the Modi does not, so no drivers required (Class 1 Audio which is a subset of usB 1.1)


----------



## madwolfa

fenderf4i said:


> I believe the drivers are needed when going above 96khz, and the Modi does not, so no drivers required (Class 1 Audio which is a subset of usB 1.1)


 
  
 Yeah, even while using the same chip, they've saved the higher end USB spec for more expensive models.


----------



## Defiant00

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, even while using the same chip, they've saved the higher end USB spec for more expensive models.


 
  
 They've made it pretty clear that they did that to cut down on support issues, which would increase their expense (and they would then have to raise the Modi's cost), not through any sort of ill will or intentional crippling.


----------



## madwolfa

defiant00 said:


> They've made it pretty clear that they did that to cut down on support issues, which would increase their expense (and they would then have to raise the Modi's cost), not through any sort of ill will or intentional crippling.


 
  
 Yeah, I was just stating a fact.


----------



## Defiant00

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, I was just stating a fact.


 
  
 Yup, no ill will intended, I was just clarifying before people misunderstood


----------



## Rossliew

Can anyone help a new Mac Air user here? Been trying to plug in my Modi to the Air but it just can't detect the Modi through either of the two USB ports. Am using an Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable. It works fine with my Acer laptop though. 
  
 Help, please!


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Can anyone help a new Mac Air user here? Been trying to plug in my Modi to the Air but it just can't detect the Modi through either of the two USB ports. Am using an Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable. It works fine with my Acer laptop though.
> 
> Help, please!



Did you go to System Preferences in the Apple Menu and click on the Sound icon? It will open out to a window which should give 2 choices: internal speakers and Schitt USB device (or similar). You choose the latter.


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Did you go to System Preferences in the Apple Menu and click on the Sound icon? It will open out to a window which should give 2 choices: internal speakers and Schitt USB device (or similar). You choose the latter.


 
 Yes i did, it only showed internal speakers. I tried again with a Supra USB cable and there was intermittent connection but it could never lock on. Am really flabbergasted and getting really frustrated with the MBA! Is this an issue with the USB port or Mac Airs in general? I really thought something as expensive as a Mac should not have such issues...


----------



## worminater

rossliew said:


> Yes i did, it only showed internal speakers. I tried again with a Supra USB cable and there was intermittent connection but it could never lock on. Am really flabbergasted and getting really frustrated with the MBA! Is this an issue with the USB port or Mac Airs in general? I really thought something as expensive as a Mac should not have such issues...


 
 I've found Apples USB support in general to be pretty crappy.  Rebooting the machine tends to fix it for me until I sleep next.  (same behavior on mid 2013 MBA and a late 2013 15" MBP..)


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Yes i did, it only showed internal speakers. I tried again with a Supra USB cable and there was intermittent connection but it could never lock on. Am really flabbergasted and getting really frustrated with the MBA! Is this an issue with the USB port or Mac Airs in general? I really thought something as expensive as a Mac should not have such issues...



I use the MBA only. I've had no problems except a USB port that I recently changed. Does the USB cable fit firmly in the MBA i.e. It is not loose?


----------



## Rossliew

worminater said:


> I've found Apples USB support in general to be pretty crappy.  Rebooting the machine tends to fix it for me until I sleep next.  (same behavior on mid 2013 MBA and a late 2013 15" MBP..)


 
 Rebooting meaning to shut down and restart?


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> I use the MBA only. I've had no problems except a USB port that I recently changed. Does the USB cable fit firmly in the MBA i.e. It is not loose?


 
 Yes it sits firmly and there is power as the indicator light is on. Just no digital connection..crap, did i waste money getting this??!


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Yes it sits firmly and there is power as the indicator light is on. Just no digital connection..crap, did i waste money getting this??!



With the USB cable in, restart the MBA. Then check the sound icon again.


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> With the USB cable in, restart the MBA. Then check the sound icon again.


 
 Still the same...intermittent connection : (
  
 Should I just bring it into the service centre and check it out? this is not even a day old!


----------



## hodgjy

rossliew said:


> Still the same...intermittent connection : (
> 
> Should I just bring it into the service centre and check it out? this is not even a day old!


 
  
 Is it a USB 3.0 port by chance?  Many DACs seem to dislike USB 3.0.


----------



## RickB

rossliew said:


> Still the same...intermittent connection : (
> 
> Should I just bring it into the service centre and check it out? this is not even a day old!


 

 I would send an email to Schiit tech support. They probably have seen this before and would know what to do.


----------



## Tuco1965

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, even while using the same chip, they've saved the higher end USB spec for more expensive models.


 
 They actually are different. AKM4396 for Modi and AKM4399 for Bifrost.  The Modi is meant to be simple to use and no drivers to have to support.


----------



## madwolfa

tuco1965 said:


> They actually are different. AKM4396 for Modi and AKM4399 for Bifrost.  The Modi is meant to be simple to use and no drivers to have to support.


 
  
 I meant the USB chip (C-Media CM6631A).


----------



## Tuco1965

Yup gotcha.  Asleep at the wheel today.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

stand said:


> I did bring up the point of the HE-6's power hungry character. I believe that few people in the general population of headphone owners require such wattage and would need an amp capable of dimming the lights sharing the same mains circuit. I would think that your Auralic is up to the job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Head-fiers should try some Ortho's at some time. Alot of difference from dynamic drivers. The Ortho's are very heavy! Hope you enjoy the HE-500!


----------



## madwolfa

xdaggersoul said:


> The Ortho's are very heavy!


 
  
 Yeah, that's what scares me, I'm spoiled by weightless HD6xx series. At the same time I'm tempted to hear something new.


----------



## StanD

xdaggersoul said:


> Head-fiers should try some Ortho's at some time. Alot of difference from dynamic drivers. The Ortho's are very heavy! Hope you enjoy the HE-500!


 
 I listen to them and my HD600's everyday.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, that's what scares me, I'm spoiled by weightless HD6xx series. At the same time I'm tempted to hear something new.


 
 Look into the HE-560's. They're half the weight of the HE-500's.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Look into the HE-560's. They're half the weight of the HE-500's.


 
  
 Why isn't it on HiFiMAN's website? Where do you normally buy them?


----------



## RickB

madwolfa said:


> Why isn't it on HiFiMAN's website? Where do you normally buy them?


 
  
 They haven't been released yet, though they are supposed to be coming out very soon.


----------



## Rossliew

hodgjy said:


> Is it a USB 3.0 port by chance?  Many DACs seem to dislike USB 3.0.




Yes, they are Usb3.0 ports. Is it possible to buy some sort of adaptor to make it seem like a Usb2.0?


----------



## Rossliew

rickb said:


> I would send an email to Schiit tech support. They probably have seen this before and would know what to do.




Good idea there. Have just shot an email to Schiit...hopefully this gets sorted out soon so I can continue enjoying the music. Thanks!


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> Good idea there. Have just shot an email to Schiit...hopefully this gets sorted out soon so I can continue enjoying the music. Thanks!


 
 Nick is quick. (Tech support)


----------



## Rossliew

stand said:


> Nick is quick. (Tech support)


 
 Yeah, got my answer - its in the Schiit site FAQ. Basically I need a powered USB hub between the Mac and the Dac. Similar problem arise with Windows 8 PCs as well so its not a Mac thing exclusively but still...


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> Yeah, got my answer - its in the Schiit site FAQ. Basically I need a powered USB hub between the Mac and the Dac. Similar problem arise with Windows 8 PCs as well so its not a Mac thing exclusively but still...


 
 Actually my windows Laptop/ PC's can go directly to my Schiit Bifrost, it's my smartphone and iPod Touch 5G that require the USB Hub. The Laptop/PC can supply the necessary current via USB but it's my portable devices that cannot.


----------



## Billheiser

My Macbook Air plugs into Bifrost with no problems at all, whether running on battery or not.  Don't need a powered hub.  Am ? mystified why you're having that problem?


----------



## Rossliew

I suppose





billheiser said:


> My Macbook Air plugs into Bifrost with no problems at all, whether running on battery or not.  Don't need a powered hub.  Am ? mystified why you're having that problem?




Luck of the draw I suppose..


----------



## Rossliew

stand said:


> Actually my windows Laptop/ PC's can go directly to my Schiit Bifrost, it's my smartphone and iPod Touch 5G that require the USB Hub. The Laptop/PC can supply the necessary current via USB but it's my portable devices that cannot.




Can you show me a link to a suitable powered Usb hub? I'm confused with so many options out there..


----------



## Billheiser

Gear Head USB 2.0 4-Port Hub with Energy Saving Switch (AC Powered) (RoHS) (UH5500ESP)

Oops that's not the actual link, but paste that description into Amazon and you'll have it. $13. 

Also, look at schiit's website, FAQ section, "troubleshooting" for USB and dac's.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Gear Head USB 2.0 4-Port Hub with Energy Saving Switch (AC Powered) (RoHS) (UH5500ESP)
> 
> Oops that's not the actual link, but paste that description into Amazon and you'll have it. $13.
> 
> Also, look at schiit's website, FAQ section, "troubleshooting" for USB and dac's.


 
 I don't think it's in their FAQ anymore. I got it a Amazon, link below.
http://www.amazon.com/Gear-Head-4-Port-Powered-UH5500ESP/dp/B004OBZ088


----------



## mwillits

Are the Mjolnir pre-outs supposed to automatically switch off when I plug in my headphones, as the Asgard does? Not an issue either way, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. I could be, but that'd be for a different forum, I suppose


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Yes, they are Usb3.0 ports. Is it possible to buy some sort of adaptor to make it seem like a Usb2.0?


 
 Ross,
 I don't have a problem with either the Gungnir or the Bifrost with the USB 3.0 ports. Could be your cable or the Modi.


----------



## Rossliew

stand said:


> I don't think it's in their FAQ anymore. I got it a Amazon, link below.
> http://www.amazon.com/Gear-Head-4-Port-Powered-UH5500ESP/dp/B004OBZ088




Yea it's still in the faq. So I've gotten myself a powered external Usb hub. Hopefully it works.


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Ross,
> I don't have a problem with either the Gungnir or the Bifrost with the USB 3.0 ports. Could be your cable or the Modi.




I dunno, man. Could be luck of the draw. I've gotten the external powered hub so hopefully it will work. Will try it out tonight and report back.


----------



## Rossliew

Glad to report back that with the external powered hub in place, the Modi gets connected : ) Finally some tunes whilst I audition the Audirvana software during its free trial period. Sounds pretty good. I must say even Spotify+ sounds better thru the Mac Air..


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> Glad to report back that with the external powered hub in place, the Modi gets connected : ) Finally some tunes whilst I audition the Audirvana software during its free trial period. Sounds pretty good. I must say even Spotify+ sounds better thru the Mac Air..


 
 Looks like we can chalk up one more in the win column. Listen some more and let us know how you feel.






 we're waiting.


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Glad to report back that with the external powered hub in place, the Modi gets connected : ) Finally some tunes whilst I audition the Audirvana software during its free trial period. Sounds pretty good. I must say even Spotify+ sounds better thru the Mac Air..



Finally indeed, you catch a break. Good for you and have a blast.


----------



## fenderf4i

mwillits said:


> Are the Mjolnir pre-outs supposed to automatically switch off when I plug in my headphones, as the Asgard does? Not an issue either way, but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. I could be, but that'd be for a different forum, I suppose


 
  
 If they don't shut off, the Mjolnir might be from before they started doing that on the amps. The original Lyr didn't shut them off, the Asgard 2 was the first to shut them off, and the Lyr 2 now also shuts them off.


----------



## redcat2

Well i tuck deliver of a new Lyr2, on Friday lucky i had an old set of  6922 tubes sitting around because the ones that came with it are just crap. At this point my opinion is out on this unit until some more tubes arrive, i still have my main wa5 amp but i was using this to replace a wa6se from my office.
  
 At this stage i would have to say i am missing some low down quality bass, but as i say i am not wanting to give an opinion yet for some weeks until new tubes arrive and i give it some time to burn in.


----------



## Currawong

Overkill, but still a good listen:


----------



## Wildcatsare1

currawong said:


> Overkill, but still a good listen:




Beautiful HeadFi Porn, such a sweet setup!!! Lusting in Tennessee.


----------



## Rem0o

Kinda curious on his conclusion with this match. I just hope he keeps the classic "it's good, but since it doesn't cost 2000+, it can't be on that top tier level" kind of comment out of the way to give his real impressions, with little to no price considerations.


----------



## 65535

That's the thing, the headphones are going to be the biggest determinator of how good a system sounds. It's not hard to make a phenomenal amp in a $500 or less package. I will say that I've listened from Magni/Vali up to Ragnarok and I liked the way the Ragnarok sounded better than anything else. Why is that? Not just because it's expensive but the exact sound signature of it sounded better. I also didn't do it fairly and use the same pair of headphones for everything I heard. It sounded the best with the T70's I own. 
  
 Listen to the Mjolnir and the Ragnarok in a blind A/B with a group of people and I bet they pick 50/50 which is better for them. Same goes for any *well designed* amp from $100 to $10,000.


----------



## Sasasd

Is this normal, usb cable sticks out a bit from Modi usb connector? It works fine but looks weird.


----------



## Rossliew

sasasd said:


> Is this normal, usb cable sticks out a bit from Modi usb connector? It works fine but looks weird.


 
 Mine does too but i don't see any problem with it so long as it works fine and the cable doesn't pop out easily.


----------



## CJs06

currawong said:


> Overkill, but still a good listen:




ooooo nice, I gotta try that combo sometime... Maybe at the next head-fi meet I attend. Out of curiosity, what music have you had a chance to listen to with that combo?


----------



## sindrealmost

I just got my Schiit a few days ago, MODI + Asgard 2, I absolutely love it, tho' I will in all probability upgrade to the Bifrost sooner rather than later (as soon as my bank account agrees)
 The Asgard 2 drives my Beyers (DT990's 250Ohm) quite nicely, but the volume knob is pretty much around 3-5 when driving them. Still I will be replacing the Beyers in the future as I find the treble too jarring to my ears. Not uncomfortably so, and this is independent from the MODI + Asgard2 setup (same issue with them when using my Centrance HiFi M8)
  
 But I really love the Asgard 2 with my Shure SE846... (in the low gain setting of course 
  
 The more I listen to it, the more I love it. 
  
 And as a bonus it works as a small heater, which is nice here in the nordic regions of the world 
  
 EDIT (23-06-14): As my subsequent post/s will indicate, the volume level from my source was set low (approx 75%) this is the reason I had to crank the volume on the Asgard 2 to about 3-5, with output from my source at 100% the volume knob usually stays around the 11-13 mark... with some variations depending on what I listen to. 
  
 -Sindre


----------



## madwolfa

sindrealmost said:


> The Asgard 2 drives my Beyers (DT990's 250Ohm) quite nicely, but the volume knob is pretty much around 3-5 when driving them.




Wow, this is crazy! Is that on low gain or something? I don't need to go much higher than 9 am on high gain with my HD650. 3-5 would blow my head off.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Wow, this is crazy! Is that on low gain or something? I don't need to go much higher than 9 am on high gain with my HD650. 3-5 would blow my head off.


 
 I await his answer. The Asgard 2 should be able to crank out 456 mW continuous at 250 Ohms which is 122.6 dB SPL.


----------



## Rem0o

stand said:


> I await his answer. The Asgard 2 should be able to crank out 456 mW continuous at 250 Ohms which is 122.6 dB SPL.


 
 Either his source is tuned down or he is using low gain, or a combination of both.


----------



## StanD

rem0o said:


> Either his source is tuned down or he is using low gain, or a combination of both.


 
 Yep, that's what I'm thinking since the numbers say it should raise one's hair. That's why I'm waiting to hear from the poster, I don't think anyone, under normal conditions, can listen that loud (3-5 PM) for too long.


----------



## Rem0o

stand said:


> Yep, that's what I'm thinking since the numbers say it should raise one's hair. That's why I'm waiting to hear from the poster, I don't think anyone, under normal conditions, can listen that loud (3-5 PM) for too long.


 
 But hey, 1W ain't enough! Need more power!


----------



## kothganesh

currawong said:


> Overkill, but still a good listen:


 
 Oh boy, I was enjoying the 800 with the BH Crack and he does this! God, it looks great.


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> Oh boy, I was enjoying the 800 with the BH Crack and he does this! God, it looks great.


 
 Hehe...such are the pitfalls of Head-fi. Wonder how the V2 stacks up against the BH and Little Dot OTL amps..


----------



## Currawong

The initial sharpness in the sound has died down a bit with use, thankfully. There's a bit of buzz in the volume as I turn it up, but at maximum it disappears. I'm not sure if this is because I'm using it at 100V. It doesn't have quite the effortless of the Studio Six (obviously) but it is still impressive how well I could make out the sound from differences sources such as the Geek Out vs. the Hugo (though the Hugo doesn't need an external amp).


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Hehe...such are the pitfalls of Head-fi. Wonder how the V2 stacks up against the BH and Little Dot OTL amps..



Only one way to find out....order them !


----------



## StanD

rem0o said:


> But hey, 1W ain't enough! Need more power!


 
 One can always get an amp from Dr. Emmett Brown with a 1.21 Gigawatt Flux Capacitor. I don't think exotic parts like that can be found in an Asgard 2. Perhaps one day Schiit will make a portable.


----------



## sindrealmost

rem0o said:


> Either his source is tuned down or he is using low gain, or a combination of both.


 
 So yes, I just double checked now, output on my source was set low (75%) - this might have something to do with it... 
  
 Set it to 100% and now a much more "normal" volume setting, 11-2 (sometimes 3 depending on what I am listening to) and yes this is in high gain 
  
  
 -S


----------



## sindrealmost

stand said:


> One can always get an amp from Dr. Emmett Brown with a 1.21 Gigawatt Flux Capacitor. I don't think exotic parts like that can be found in an Asgard 2. Perhaps one day Schiit will make a portable.


 
 Hehhehe, 1.21 Gigawatts.... this honestly made me laugh... can picture it now, an amp that transports you back in time to the time the music you are listening to was recorded...
  
 -S


----------



## ab initio

currawong said:


> *Overkill*, but still a good listen:


 
  
 Can you elaborate on the "overkill" part? I thought this was head-fi where excess=success.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Jason Stoddard

currawong said:


> The initial sharpness in the sound has died down a bit with use, thankfully. There's a bit of buzz in the volume as I turn it up, but at maximum it disappears. I'm not sure if this is because I'm using it at 100V. It doesn't have quite the effortless of the Studio Six (obviously) but it is still impressive how well I could make out the sound from differences sources such as the Geek Out vs. the Hugo (though the Hugo doesn't need an external amp).


 
 Yep, you'll need a 100-115 converter, I'm afraid. I'm hoping to get 100V transformers rolled into the line sometime later this year.


----------



## FrZ-Fi

anyone replace a Valhalla with a Valhalla 2? Want to know how much of an improvement there is.


----------



## Currawong

jason stoddard said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > The initial sharpness in the sound has died down a bit with use, thankfully. There's a bit of buzz in the volume as I turn it up, but at maximum it disappears. I'm not sure if this is because I'm using it at 100V. It doesn't have quite the effortless of the Studio Six (obviously) but it is still impressive how well I could make out the sound from differences sources such as the Geek Out vs. the Hugo (though the Hugo doesn't need an external amp).
> ...


 
  
 It doesn't do poorly at all under-volted, though I know that I shouldn't be running it like that.


----------



## 65535

currawong said:


> It doesn't do poorly at all under-volted, though I know that I shouldn't be running it like that.


 
  
 It may well pull more current running under voltage. Could get a little warmer than intended. The only issue though I could see is shortened component life.


----------



## JD Disantis

I have owned the magni for 3 months now and i love it but i dont have the dac, instead due to insufficient funds, i just have a rca to 3.5 millimeter jack going into my pc. A wonderful pair of brown momentums are paired with the amp. Im looking for a pair of focal spirit pros in the future though


----------



## Billheiser

jd disantis said:


> I have owned the magni for 3 months now and i love it but i dont have the dac, instead due to insufficient funds, i just have a rca to 3.5 millimeter jack going into my pc. A wonderful pair of brown momentums are paired with the amp. Im looking for a pair of focal spirit pros in the future though


 
Your first post? Welcome. Hope you can consider the matching Modi DAC after a while


----------



## Nada190

Just curious, what kind of RCA interconnects are you guys using to connect your dac to your amp? 
  
 Cheap generic ones or expensive cables?


----------



## JD Disantis

Im using just generic cables for mine


----------



## StanD

nada190 said:


> Just curious, what kind of RCA interconnects are you guys using to connect your dac to your amp?
> 
> Cheap generic ones or expensive cables?


 
 Monoprice, cheap but built decent.


----------



## Byronb

nada190 said:


> Just curious, what kind of RCA interconnects are you guys using to connect your dac to your amp?
> 
> Cheap generic ones or expensive cables?


 
 I use the PYST cables.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> Monoprice, cheap but built decent.


 
  
 Same here.


----------



## Eee Pee

stand said:


> Monoprice, cheap but built decent.


 
  
 Most of the time.  Out of 6 RCAs that I have one single outer ring part, the copper coated thing with the four slits that goes over the male RCA, was way too tight so I tried to bend it a little but it snapped off.  Naturally I had to snap off the other three on the other three ends for symmetry, but everything is fine with that cable now.  For a few bucks, who cares.
  
 I have about 20 of their power cords in various lengths and all those have been fine.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jd disantis said:


> Im using just generic cables for mine


 
  
 There is no legitimate reason to use anything else besides durability. The ONE thing expensive cables usually have is durability


----------



## JD Disantis

Well my cable is pretty durable and i only paid 10 bucks at best buy because it was a last minute thing


----------



## madwolfa

nada190 said:


> Just curious, what kind of RCA interconnects are you guys using to connect your dac to your amp?
> 
> Cheap generic ones or expensive cables?


 
  
 Blue Jeans Cable. I call them the Schiit of the cable world.
  
 http://www.bluejeanscable.com


----------



## amnesiac75

Blue jean cables are nice and the 1 foot cable is actually about 16-17 inches long since they do not count the length of the plugs. The pyst RCA is better for stacking a modi to a magni/vali unless you are putting them side by side or using a stand. BJC are thicker so even at 1 foot is too much of a bend for the lighter amps/dacs.


----------



## kothganesh

Schiit has launched the Wyrd ! I could be late on this but.........


----------



## madwolfa

amnesiac75 said:


> The pyst RCA is better for stacking a modi to a magni/vali unless you are putting them side by side or using a stand. BJC are thicker so even at 1 foot is too much of a bend for the lighter amps/dacs.


 
  
 That's true.


----------



## ckyr

Happy new owner of Valhalla. Using my Decco2 as a DAC, great amp for the DT880.


----------



## Byronb

ckyr said:


> Happy new owner of Valhalla. Using my Decco2 as a DAC, great amp for the DT880.


 
 Congrats!


----------



## Kiwikat

Just got my Mjolnir/Gungnir stack in at work!  Anyone have any good excuses for me to leave?  I don't think they'll accept that I "have schiit to do".
  
 I wasn't expecting a box quite this big and heavy, I guess I'm not very good at visualizing the size of things. Argh... can't concentrate.


----------



## madwolfa

kiwikat said:


> Argh... can't concentrate.


 
  
 Ahh. Know the feeling. You're pretty much done for today.


----------



## Byronb

kiwikat said:


> Just got my Mjolnir/Gungnir stack in at work!  Anyone have any good excuses for me to leave?  I don't think they'll accept that I "have schiit to do".
> 
> I wasn't expecting a box quite this big and heavy, I guess I'm not very good at visualizing the size of things. Argh... can't concentrate.


 
 Tell them you are feeling Shiity!


----------



## bigjohn1

byronb said:


> I use the PYST cables.


 
  
 +1  - they are perfect for my Magni/Modi stack.


----------



## superjawes

kothganesh said:


> Schiit has launched the Wyrd ! I could be late on this but.........


It was announced a few weeks ago, IIRC, but you are correct that it is now available for purchase.

May this Schiit decrapify your USB signal.


----------



## Rossliew

Waiting for their phono stage...


----------



## kothganesh

superjawes said:


> It was announced a few weeks ago, IIRC, but you are correct that it is now available for purchase.
> 
> May this Schiit decrapify your USB signal.


 
 haha...my Mac may need it.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ckyr said:


> Happy new owner of Valhalla. Using my Decco2 as a DAC, great amp for the DT880.




How does it sound? Which HP's are you using?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kothganesh said:


> haha...my Mac may need it.




My ASUS definitely does, I will be ordering one next week, hopefully the end of USB drops.


----------



## RickB

wildcatsare1 said:


> My ASUS definitely does, I will be ordering one next week, hopefully the end of USB drops.


 
  
 My Asus laptop has a weird problem where my Modi DAC will start playing music too fast (exactly 10% faster) after bringing the laptop out of sleep, IF I had music paused when I put it to sleep. Simple enough to avoid, but I wonder if Wyrd would cure it.  This is my second Modi this happens to, so I know it's not defective.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

rossliew said:


> Waiting for their phono stage...


 
  
 Same, I really hope it has specs that rival the V90-LPS


----------



## 65535

rickb said:


> My Asus laptop has a weird problem where my Modi DAC will start playing music too fast (exactly 10% faster) after bringing the laptop out of sleep, IF I had music paused when I put it to sleep. Simple enough to avoid, but I wonder if Wyrd would cure it.  This is my second Modi this happens to, so I know it's not defective.


 
  
  
 That issue generally occurs when the playback software is decoding the audio at a certain sample rate and then the playback device changes the sample from that sample rate to a higher sample rate. Effectively you have music being decoded at 44.1kHz and played back at 48kHz which is almost exactly 10% faster playback speed. I've had this issue with a firewire sound card and QLab on a Mac when I changed the sample rate, QLab did respond by changing its own sample rate, check to see what you audio settings are when the issue happens.
  
 Unfortunately I don't think it will be a simple fix with Wyrd since it's probably an issue completely with your OS rather than any hardware.


----------



## RickB

65535 said:


> That issue generally occurs when the playback software is decoding the audio at a certain sample rate and then the playback device changes the sample from that sample rate to a higher sample rate. Effectively you have music being decoded at 44.1kHz and played back at 48kHz which is almost exactly 10% faster playback speed. I've had this issue with a firewire sound card and QLab on a Mac when I changed the sample rate, QLab did respond by changing its own sample rate, check to see what you audio settings are when the issue happens.
> 
> Unfortunately I don't think it will be a simple fix with Wyrd since it's probably an issue completely with your OS rather than any hardware.


 

 Thanks for the info. I guess I can save my money and just avoid pausing music and putting the computer to sleep.


----------



## Kiwikat

Awesome, no feedback loop or USB problems!  The X's seem so much more precise, fuller, and wider now.  Very much refined overall.  Looking forward to burning in the Schiit stack and getting my cable tomorrow.
  
 It's good to be back in audio heaven!


----------



## mwillits

Just ordered the Wyrd. Should be here by end of next week. I was debating the iFi Purifier and the iUSB Power after reading some positive reviews of both. I'm having usb noise issues from my MacBook Pro, so hopefully the Wyrd might work similarly as the Purifier for the same price.



kothganesh said:


> Schiit has launched the Wyrd ! I could be late on this but.........


----------



## Wildcatsare1

A bit of an interlude from Wyrd, I am listening to Heifetz's RCA recording of Sibelius Violin Concerto, laptop>Modi>Lyr 2>HD650's, my God what beautiful music, goosebumps abounding. Love all of the engineering, tech speak and endless debate about cables, my toys are better/more expensive/prettier bling than yours, carping about pre-orders, etc., but this is what it's all about. Oh, and the opportunity to sample exotic Micro-Brews at RMAF .


----------



## ckyr

mwillits said:


> Just ordered the Wyrd. Should be here by end of next week. I was debating the iFi Purifier and the iUSB Power after reading some positive reviews of both. I'm having usb noise issues from my MacBook Pro, so hopefully the Wyrd might work similarly as the Purifier for the same price.


 
 Please post a review when you receive it.


----------



## mwillits

ckyr said:


> Please post a review when you receive it.




Will do. Apparently the Wyrd shipped today, so I may have it as soon as Monday.

edit: here is my brief writeup about my initial experience with the Wyrd. Let me know if you have any questions 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/724519/schiit-decrapifier-released-usb-power-isolator#post_10679088


----------



## commtrd

kiwikat said:


> Awesome, no feedback loop or USB problems!  The X's seem so much more precise, fuller, and wider now.  Very much refined overall.  Looking forward to burning in the Schiit stack and getting my cable tomorrow.
> 
> It's good to be back in audio heaven!


 

 Are you using the Wyrd USB interface device? The G should come with the new USB module upgrade if bought new? I had my dac upgraded with the new USB upgrade and it is really nice. Keep us updated on progress with the acclimation of the new stack with the X phones por favor!


----------



## redcat2

Oh look at what the postman has dropped off, at last.
  
2 NOS tubes Valvo pinch waist PCC88 = ~ 6922 E88CC d-getter 1957 

  
 And 2 NEW Tubes Röhren Valvo E88CC 6922 Hamburger Fertigung 1964
  


  
  
 Already have the Red ones burning in lot better bass and wider image and more depth to the sound already, now to let burn in for xxx hours.


----------



## Tuco1965

Cheers to new glass!


----------



## Kiwikat

commtrd said:


> Are you using the Wyrd USB interface device? The G should come with the new USB module upgrade if bought new? I had my dac upgraded with the new USB upgrade and it is really nice. Keep us updated on progress with the acclimation of the new stack with the X phones por favor!


 
 I am not using Wyrd, just straight from my rMBP to Gungnir with a PYST USB cable.  There is no noise or any weirdness at all.
  
 Holy cow, I don't know if it was the day of burn in or switching to a Black Dragon cable, but the low end has opened way up.  They don't sound like the same headphones I had yesterday.


----------



## commtrd

I am going to trade in my 3s for the X. Looking forward to trying the new phones out.


----------



## Themorganlett85

It came, it FINALLY came. Now I just need to get some Schiit to put on it.


----------



## Nada190

themorganlett85 said:


> It came, it FINALLY came. Now I just need to get some Schiit to put on it.


 
  
 Is that a pedestal for your Schiit?


----------



## Themorganlett85

nada190 said:


> Is that a pedestal for your Schiit?


 
 Indeed it is.


----------



## MrPanda

Any comparisons of Lyr2 to the original yet?


----------



## Mark-sf

I've had the Lyr 2 for a week after having the Lyr for a year. So far it is an all-around improvement. As I have high gain cans (HD700s) the gain switch is something I had been longing and asking for to get rid of a very low level hum even with the lowest noise tubes.  Its now completely gone and quiet enough to use with IEMs of which I have tried ER6i's, Phonak PFE132's and UE10's. I did not have the amps at the same time; however, the power supply improvements also help in providing improved dimensionality to the presentation. I am not talking about imaging, as that hasn't changed for me from its already excellent width. It is the physicality of the instruments, especially acoustical ones which are more realized. The amp appears to do better with the stock tubes which are different from the GE  6BQ7s that came with my Lyr though I still prefer my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922's and  Voskhod 6N23P Rockets 1978 Silver Shields. Not quite ready to post a full review but there is simply an ease and reality to the sound that leaves looking forward to listening each day.


----------



## MrPanda

Great comments, thank you very much!


----------



## Nada190

Should I get the bifrost with usb or without? I'm thinking of connecting it to my creative zxr with optical over usb.


----------



## HPiper

themorganlett85 said:


> It came, it FINALLY came. Now I just need to get some Schiit to put on it.


 
  
 That is really nice. I have been looking for something similar only a 2 tier version.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

hpiper said:


> That is really nice. I have been looking for something similar only a 2 tier version.




It's from Monoprice and they are stackable, mine are set up as 3 tier, I believe it was $22.00 p/ shelf.


----------



## Billheiser

nada190 said:


> Should I get the bifrost with usb or without? I'm thinking of connecting it to my creative zxr with optical over usb.


 
 Without.  Then if you change your mind later, you can send it in to Schiit and have them add the USB function.


----------



## Byronb

billheiser said:


> Without.  Then if you change your mind later, you can send it in to Schiit and have them add the USB function.


 
 This is so easy to do, that I would loath to recommend sending it in to have it done. Just order the part when you are ready and there are plenty of videos showing how to do it.


----------



## Nada190

Any benefits of usb over optical? Aside from optical cables looking cooler.


----------



## Billheiser

nada190 said:


> Any benefits of usb over optical? Aside from optical cables looking cooler.




No.


----------



## Nada190

Do all optical cables transmit 24/192?


----------



## Billheiser

Yes.


----------



## Defiant00

nada190 said:


> Do all optical cables transmit 24/192?


 
  
 Not all optical outputs support 24/192 though, for example, most Macs max out at 24/96 through optical.


----------



## Nada190

Anyone know if the creative zxr daughter board can output 24\192?

Also what about the tossing cable? Do they all transmit 24/192? 

Thanks everyone!


----------



## madwolfa

It all depends on the output, really.


----------



## Mark-sf

nada190 said:


> Do all optical cables transmit 24/192?


 
 The answer is a definite NO for all cables. Typical plastic core cables are bandwidth limited to 5-6MHz which will only support 24/96 in stereo. To go to 192 you need in excess of 9MHz in bandwidth which is only available in glass or quartz fibre-based cables.  Looking at the math without even allowing for headroom to adjust for speed one finds 24 x 8 x 2 x 192KHz = 9.2MHz.


----------



## madwolfa

I can't get 24/192 from my Realtek ALC898 with either cheap and longer plastic (POF) cable or very expensive and short Wire World Supernova glass optical cable. With either MF V-DAC II or Bifrost at the end. So I assume it's mostly an S/PDIF source limitation.


----------



## Nada190

Okay thanks Ill go with the USB bifrost then.


----------



## madwolfa

nada190 said:


> Okay thanks Ill go with the USB bifrost then.


 
  
 I'd choose USB over optical any day. It's currently the most robust and jitter-proof way of connecting the consumer audio devices (if USB implementation is right, as in Bifrost).
  
 I only use optical when I need to get rid of the ground loop hum (when my source and DAC/amplifier are connected to different power outlets).


----------



## tehsprayer

I just got a used Lyr and was wondering if there are any ways to get the volume knob to be smooth? It seems to be stiff when twisting it. Is there any way to do it without opening? The screws are stripped, spray some WD40?


----------



## Tuco1965

I'd contact Schiit to be honest.  I doubt anything other than replacing the control will fix it though.


----------



## tehsprayer

tuco1965 said:


> I'd contact Schiit to be honest.  I doubt anything other than replacing the control will fix it though.


 
 Sadly that's not possible, I'm the 3rd owner of it now.


----------



## Tuco1965

I would still contact them and see what they have to say.


----------



## tehsprayer

tuco1965 said:


> I would still contact them and see what they have to say.


 
 I did, it isn't a big deal but it would be nice having a smooth volume control. Also what is the best way with removing tubes to swap them out? The ones that are on now are nearly impossible to get out, any sort of tutorial on how remove tubes?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

tehsprayer said:


> I did, it isn't a big deal but it would be nice having a smooth volume control. Also what is the best way with removing tubes to swap them out? The ones that are on now are nearly impossible to get out, any sort of tutorial on how remove tubes?




Use a rubber shelf liner, cheap and great grip. Rock the tube gently while tugging. There is an excellent Lyr Tube Rollers thread, to learn about potential tubes. I am fairly new to the Lyr 2, but I have had good results Volkhod Silver Shield 6N23P's and Amperex Bugle Boys ECC88's, but there are much more experienced Rollers on the Thread.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

tehsprayer said:


> I did, it isn't a big deal but it would be nice having a smooth volume control. Also what is the best way with removing tubes to swap them out? The ones that are on now are nearly impossible to get out, any sort of tutorial on how remove tubes?


 
 I bought a pair of rubber gloves from the hardware store for about 3 dollars. The top of the gloves are cloth (or spandex material) and the bottom grip part is rubber.
  
 Come to think of it, that could have been a huge improvement on the Lyr 2 in raising the tubes higher, though I would assume that would not only have raised production costs but probably even pushed the safety limits overall of the device?
  
 After awhile, you just get used to it.


----------



## Tuco1965

They really aren't too hard to get out with methods described.  I just use the foam packing from the tubes to grip the top and rock them out.


----------



## tehsprayer

tuco1965 said:


> They really aren't too hard to get out with methods described.  I just use the foam packing from the tubes to grip the top and rock them out.


 
 the foam packaging worked awesome.
  
 I think I enjoy the orange globes better than stock GE tubes  sounds a bit warmer and smoother


----------



## ab initio

mark-sf said:


> The answer is a definite NO for all cables. Typical plastic core cables are bandwidth limited to 5-6MHz which will only support 24/96 in stereo. To go to 192 you need in excess of 9MHz in bandwidth which is only available in glass or quartz fibre-based cables.  Looking at the math without even allowing for headroom to adjust for speed one finds 24 x 8 x 2 x 192KHz = 9.2MHz.


 
  
 How do you get 24 x *8* x 2 x 192? 24 bit audio is exactly that, 24 *bits*. The minimum bitrate for stereo 24/192kHz audio is exactly 2 (channels) *  24 (bits per channel per sample) * 192000 (samples per second) = 9.216 million bits/second.
  
 For those interested about S/PDIF, wikipedia explains the basics. 
  
 With regards to USB vs TOSLINK s/pdif, realistically USB 2.0 maxes out at about 30 MB/sec = 240 Mb/sec. Furthermore, USB can operate in asynchronous mode which allows it to use its own onboard high quality clock (i.e., jitter is irrelevant). On the other hand, TOSLINK maxes out at 120 Mb/sec and cannot operate purely from it's own clock. Also s/pdif may be limited to 20bit depth, depending on hardware.  Theoretically, USB is definitely a superior interface in terms of data rate and function. TOSLINK permites galvanic isolation which may sometimes be important. In reality, none of these issues are going to matter when human ears are listening. Just choose whatever interface is most convenient for you.
  
 But now you know... (and knowing is half the battle)
  
 Cheers


----------



## Failuyr

Sorry if this has already been asked but---does Schiit sell refurb, used, or open box items?


----------



## tehsprayer

failuyr said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked but---does Schiit sell refurb, used, or open box items?




They sell b-stock items through their amazon account. They often don't have much of b-stock and you might be better off looking at sales here.


----------



## Failuyr

tehsprayer said:


> They sell b-stock items through their amazon account. They often don't have much of b-stock and you might be better off looking at sales here.


 
 Thank you! I always do check here, but it's often nice checking other places as well.
 Do you happen to know if they include warranty?


----------



## tehsprayer

failuyr said:


> Thank you! I always do check here, but it's often nice checking other places as well.
> Do you happen to know if they include warranty?




Send them an email, they respond relatively quick. Not sure about their b-stock items but buying used items from other users automatically voids warranty.


----------



## jchandler3

ab initio said:


> But now you know... (and knowing is half the battle)


----------



## RickB

failuyr said:


> Thank you! I always do check here, but it's often nice checking other places as well.
> Do you happen to know if they include warranty?


 
  
 Their B-stock comes with warranty.


----------



## theBigStick

mark-sf said:


> The answer is a definite NO for all cables. Typical plastic core cables are bandwidth limited to 5-6MHz which will only support 24/96 in stereo. To go to 192 you need in excess of 9MHz in bandwidth which is only available in glass or quartz fibre-based cables.  Looking at the math without even allowing for headroom to adjust for speed one finds 24 x 8 x 2 x 192KHz = 9.2MHz.


 
 So is there a difference between Digital RCA and Toslink?


----------



## Mark-sf

ab initio said:


> How do you get 24 x *8* x 2 x 192? 24 bit audio is exactly that, 24 *bits*. The minimum bitrate for stereo 24/192kHz audio is exactly 2 (channels) *  24 (bits per channel per sample) * 192000 (samples per second) = 9.216 million bits/second.
> 
> For those interested about S/PDIF, wikipedia explains the basics.
> 
> ...


 
 I get that value by typing too fast and dealing with too many bytes at work.   In any case the OP got the correct point.


----------



## Failuyr

tehsprayer said:


> Send them an email, they respond relatively quick. Not sure about their b-stock items but buying used items from other users automatically voids warranty.


 
  
 I know they do, I had to RMA part of my Magni/Modi stack (tbh don't remember which one) and they have some of the best support I've ever used. I'll continue buying Schiit because of how great of an experience I had.
  


rickb said:


> Their B-stock comes with warranty.


 
 Thank you!


----------



## Mark-sf

thebigstick said:


> So is there a difference between Digital RCA and Toslink?


 
 Yes, unless you are combatting a ground loop or noise, a properly terminated 75ohm RCA cable is preferred in my experience as many others.


----------



## 45longcolt

tehsprayer said:


> I just got a used Lyr and was wondering if there are any ways to get the volume knob to be smooth? It seems to be stiff when twisting it. Is there any way to do it without opening? The screws are stripped, spray some WD40?


 
  
 I once took the volume knob off my Lyr, and when I reattached it, I let it slide too far on the shaft to the point that it was scraping against the faceplate. So it was hard to turn. If you can loosen that setscrew and try pulling the knob out just a tiny bit, that could potentially solve the problem. From your description, whoever had it before you wasn't exactly a brain surgeon (stripped screws?) and there's no stop on the volume shaft. Good Luck.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Anyone have experience buying from Schiit-europe.com? I put my order on Asgard 2 a week ago and haven't heard anything from them since.


----------



## madwolfa

zojokkeli said:


> Anyone have experience buying from Schiit-europe.com? I put my order on Asgard 2 a week ago and haven't heard anything from them since.


 
  
 This looks fishy.


----------



## tehsprayer

I thought the only way to get the know to be smooth was to remove the frame and adjust the whole unit. But I contacted and all I had to do is use a 1/16" allan key to loosen the know and move it outward which I didn't know about until I contacted Schiit. All good and smooth now


----------



## Nada190

zojokkeli said:


> Anyone have experience buying from Schiit-europe.com? I put my order on Asgard 2 a week ago and haven't heard anything from them since.


 
  
 Did you look at Schiit's international page on their FAQ? I don't see Schiit-Europe as one of their authorized dealers anywhere.


----------



## Sasasd

madwolfa said:


> This looks fishy.


 
 Yeah, I hope you didn't pay your order already. I recommend ordering straight from Schiit. I got my order in 4 days to Europe.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

ab initio said:


> In reality, none of these issues are going to matter when human ears are listening. Just choose whatever interface is most convenient for you.
> 
> But now you know... (and knowing is half the battle)
> 
> Cheers


 
  
  
 This can be said for a great deal of things on here


----------



## Zojokkeli

sasasd said:


> Yeah, I hope you didn't pay your order already. I recommend ordering straight from Schiit. I got my order in 4 days to Europe.


 
  


nada190 said:


> Did you look at Schiit's international page on their FAQ? I don't see Schiit-Europe as one of their authorized dealers anywhere.


 
  


madwolfa said:


> This looks fishy.


 
  
 I was starting to get a bit worried, but turns out Schiit-Europe is some kind of sub-page for Sonority Audio, which is listed in Schiit's official webpage. Anyway, I paid with paypal so there shouldn't be any problems getting my money back if problems rise. I'll get in touch with them tomorrow about delivery times.


----------



## Nada190

zojokkeli said:


> I was starting to get a bit worried, but turns out Schiit-Europe is some kind of sub-page for Sonority Audio, which is listed in Schiit's official webpage. Anyway, I paid with paypal so there shouldn't be any problems getting my money back if problems rise. I'll get in touch with them tomorrow about delivery times.


 
 Good thing about Paypal is they save you from Schiity deals.


----------



## Phonelaf

I ordered a Lyr 2 last week from Schiit-Europe. I was told that it takes up to three weeks until delivery. I think there will be no problems because Sonority Audio is listed as a dealer on the Schiit homepage.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Has Jason released any specs for the phono preamp?
  
 Also, Cambridge has on their USB d/a converters a lift/ground switch. Why doesn't switch do this instead of making an entirely separate device with (I'm assuming) has very little inside?


----------



## KLJTech

blackenedplague said:


> Has Jason released any specs for the phono preamp?
> 
> Also, Cambridge has on their USB d/a converters a lift/ground switch. Why doesn't switch do this instead of making an entirely separate device with (I'm assuming) has very little inside?


 
  
  
 What's switch? 
  
 My Parasound amps have a Ground Lift switch, but I always leave the Ground connected....haven't heard any difference with it lifted and I haven't had any ground-loop problems thus far.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

kljtech said:


> What's switch?
> 
> My Parasound amps have a Ground Lift switch, but I always leave the Ground connected....haven't heard any difference with it lifted and I haven't had any ground-loop problems thus far.


 
  
  
 hmm...... maybe that is the answer to the problem


----------



## BBEG

Any suggestions for toslink cables? Am I good to go with something like this?
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1447&seq=1&format=2
  
  
 Any benefit to the "premium" one besides aesthetics?
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022904&p_id=2763&seq=1&format=2
  
  
  
*ETA: *At $9 with shipping for 1 of each, I got both. If I like one less than the other for whatever reason I can call it a spare.


----------



## Mark-sf

I have had good luck with well-made multi-strand glass fibre cables such as this one from Cables-to-Go. About $30 on Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-45456-Sonicwave-Toslink/dp/B0009JR4GK.  The heavier duty jacket and glass fibre is worth the small up charge to minimize jitter and improve durability IMHO.


----------



## MtnSloth

Used both of those monoprice cables; they work just fine. The premium cables are indeed a little more rugged, but I'm not sure they are really worth the extra bucks unless you need a longer run where a more rugged cable makes sense. However, don't expect miracles. The premium cables can kink; and they will not survive the tread of even a diminutive lady in high heels.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Sent an email to Schiit-Europe, and they replied that they had some delay on their booking system and that my A2 should ship today. All is good. 
Now I have an urge to get rid of my HRT Music Streamer II+ and complete the stack with Bitfrost Uber.


----------



## BBEG

mark-sf said:


> I have had good luck with well-made multi-strand glass fibre cables such as this one from Cables-to-Go. About $30 on Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-45456-Sonicwave-Toslink/dp/B0009JR4GK.  The heavier duty jacket and glass fibre is worth the small up charge to minimize jitter and improve durability IMHO.


 
  
 The "reviews" of that cable make me want to buy another Schiit stack, the glass super Toslink cable, and do proper blind AB testing on people to see if they can hear the difference between glass & plastic Toslink...


----------



## Gerzom

zojokkeli said:


> I was starting to get a bit worried, but turns out Schiit-Europe is some kind of sub-page for Sonority Audio, which is listed in Schiit's official webpage. Anyway, I paid with paypal so there shouldn't be any problems getting my money back if problems rise. I'll get in touch with them tomorrow about delivery times.


 
 Hi, The guys at Sonority-Audio (schiit-europe.com) are OK! 
 I've ordered all my Schiit from them (6 units and counting......) they where on holiday last week, so maybe that explains the longer wait for an reply.
  
 Gert-Jan


----------



## UmustBKidn

currawong said:


> Overkill, but still a good listen:


 

 There is no such thing as Overkill in this hobby.


----------



## UmustBKidn

kothganesh said:


> Oh boy, I was enjoying the 800 with the BH Crack and he does this! God, it looks great.


 
  
 Crack vs Valhalla. Now that is a question worth asking.


----------



## Zojokkeli

gerzom said:


> Hi, The guys at Sonority-Audio (schiit-europe.com) are OK!
> I've ordered all my Schiit from them (6 units and counting......) they where on holiday last week, so maybe that explains the longer wait for an reply.
> 
> Gert-Jan


 
  
 Great to know, thanks!


----------



## theBigStick

umustbkidn said:


> There is no such thing as Overkill in this hobby.


 
 +1


----------



## Byronb

umustbkidn said:


> There is no such thing as Overkill in this hobby.


 
 +1


----------



## redcat2

bbeg said:


> Any suggestions for toslink cables? Am I good to go with something like this?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1447&seq=1&format=2
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, i dont know what your budget is but i have found these two to be the best if you can stretch the extra.
  
 Wire World Supernova http://www.wireworldcable.com/products/55.html
  
 And these some what unknown Silflex Glass Toslink  http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


----------



## madwolfa

redcat2 said:


> Wire World Supernova http://www.wireworldcable.com/products/55.html


 
  
 I have a 3 ft Wire World Supernova III+ (green) I don't really need... Opened for offers.


----------



## BBEG

Right now I'm not particular about cables. I'll reserve judgment until I have the opportunity to set up proper AB blind testing. Quite frankly, given the nature of digital signals and the means by which we facilitate their travel, I'm skeptical by default that there is much of a difference humans can detect given how little a difference even machines can detect. This topic was a good read on the matter.


----------



## 65535

I've been really quite happy with the flexibility and molded ends on BlueRigger cables through Amazon. Also on Amazon is StarTech Toslink cables which are super thin and a little stiff but if you wanted to hide the cable it would be the best choice. I also really like Belkin PureAV cables they're so cheap on Amazon and they just feel nice, soft, and supple.
  
 As per usual all the way up to 25' there hasn't been a difference in any of them that I've used. Be it LPCM upto 24/96kHz Stereo or 24/96kHz 4 channel ADAT.


----------



## madwolfa

Blue Jeans optical cables are also very nice.


----------



## jeremy205100

Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
  
 Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
  
 I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.


----------



## Billheiser

jeremy205100 said:


> Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
> 
> Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
> 
> I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.


 
 Not a specific answer in regard to 15" MBP, but FWIW -  I'm using a newer macbook air, w/ Mavericks, and USB DAC works just fine, regardless of running on battery or not.


----------



## Byronb

jeremy205100 said:


> Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
> 
> Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
> 
> I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.


 
 I run my Modi from an early 2013 MBP 13" retina with no issues.


----------



## jchandler3

jeremy205100 said:


> Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
> 
> Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
> 
> I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.




I have the newest MBPr and I've experienced a lot of clicks and pops with the Gungnir. That's while it's on wall power, too.

The weird thing is it was happening out of one port and not the other. Furthermore, one USB hub I have was making it worse. Ultimately I got a new hub and it fixed it ( or I could just use the other port). 

I think you'll be just fine. It's certainly not Schiit's fault. Probably just a perfect storm to create the issue.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^ I bet you are loosing the digital data stream and the clicks and pops are the unit resetting/locking on the signal.


----------



## timpicks

jeremy205100 said:


> Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
> 
> Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
> 
> I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.


 
  
 No problems for me either, both plugged in and unplugged.  Macbook Air 13" 2013 (Mavericks), Schiit Lyr and Ūberfrost.


----------



## 65535

On a 2008 pre-unibody MBP here and no issues with any DAC I've ever had on it.


----------



## mwillits

jeremy205100 said:


> Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
> 
> Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
> 
> I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.


 
  
 That was me who posted about USB problems. I'll respond here, although I don't believe the problem I'm experiencing is due to my Schiit equipment. I have a late-2013 MacBook Pro Retina 15" running Mavericks --> Schiit Wyrd --> Gungnir --> Mjolnir, then split to either HD 650 headphones or powered Airmotiv 4s speakers (via pre-outs).
  
*Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? *I don't think you should have any concern.  In my case, the Schiit Wyrd did help, as  I posted previously. My system is silent EXCEPT when I click on a window, scroll, or open an application. In these moments, I can hear a very faint sound that I can only describe as a fuzzy crackle -- it seems associated with electrical activity on the motherboard, or maybe of the CPU or GPU. Not sure if related to USB 3.0 on Mavericks, but not ruling that out. I can hear the sound through both my headphones and the speakers. Removing the Mjolnir from the chain (which is itself causing a different noise issue) doesn't help. Can't determine what, if any change there would be without the Gungnir. Swapping cables, etc. did not improve the situation.
  
*Does being on battery power change anything?* The fuzzy crackle sound occurs only when the MBP is connected to AC power. I'm able to reliably reproduce the sound until I disconnect from AC power. I've checked for obvious ground loops (although the fuzzy sound I hear does not sound like a typical ground loop hum, could it still be a ground loop?), swapped around 3-prong to 2-prong adapters, and tried different outlets, but no luck. Maybe it's a faulty power supply brick?
  
 Anyway, hope this helps.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Another suggestion to Schiit is to make a portable amp like a fiio e12 or O2 but less clunky


----------



## jeremy205100

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm stoked to get a new laptop but I hope it plays nice, which it seems there's a good chance it will.


----------



## fenderf4i

blackenedplague said:


> Another suggestion to Schiit is to make a portable amp like a fiio e12 or O2 but less clunky






They've already stated that they don't want to deal with lithium batteries and all of the regulations that go along with them, so that will never happen.


----------



## Rossliew

jeremy205100 said:


> Someone with a Mac reported USB problems a few pages ago. I currently have a 2008 MacBook Pro (the first unibody) but am going to be upgrading when they update the retinas next. Should I be concerned about my DAC not working? How many people have issues with USB 3 with Mavericks?
> 
> Does being on battery power change anything? I'd think that it'd only restrict power to the ports to prolong battery life, so it wouldn't do so when plugged in. Would anyone with a newer (preferably 15" retina) MacBook Pro mind sharing their experiences?
> 
> I know this isn't directly related to Schiit but this is a general threat and I am probably not the only one wondering about this.


 
 I bought a new Macbook Air 13" a month back and the USB connection with the Modi didn't work. Could't recognise the Modi plugged in but the LED light was on. Similarly with the Uberfrost, connection was intermittent although the DAC was recognised. Had to use an externally powered USB hub. Funny thing is, now when I use the Modi, i have very bad interference problems i.e. fuzzy sounds to no sound at all and it only goes away when i rest one palm on the Mac - anyone with similar issues? Doesn't happen with the Bifrost though. Wonder if the Wyrd would cure this..as of now, the Modi is unusable in my rig.


----------



## 65535

Sounds like you have a much larger underlying problem with either the computer or the cable used to connect the devices. Do other USB devices work properly on the same USB ports that the Schiit DACs aren't working on?


----------



## Mark-sf

rossliew said:


> I bought a new Macbook Air 13" a month back and the USB connection with the Modi didn't work. Could't recognise the Modi plugged in but the LED light was on. Similarly with the Uberfrost, connection was intermittent although the DAC was recognised. Had to use an externally powered USB hub. Funny thing is, now when I use the Modi, i have very bad interference problems i.e. fuzzy sounds to no sound at all and it only goes away when i rest one palm on the Mac - anyone with similar issues? Doesn't happen with the Bifrost though. Wonder if the Wyrd would cure this..as of now, the Modi is unusable in my rig.


 
 I've got a mid-2013 Macbook Air 13" running Mavericks that I have used with a few DACs including Practical Devices XM6, iBasso D-Zero and Oppo BDP-105 and have had no problems having them recognized or making noises either on AC or battery. I do ensure that they are powered on before I plug in the USB cable.


----------



## Rossliew

65535 said:


> Sounds like you have a much larger underlying problem with either the computer or the cable used to connect the devices. Do other USB devices work properly on the same USB ports that the Schiit DACs aren't working on?


 
 I have only the Modi and Bifrost now. Initially I thought the Bifrost shouldn't have any issues since it's a powered unit but then connection was intermittent at best. Signals kept dropping. Works fine now with the external hub. Nick of Schiit Tech support did mention that i would face this problem with the Bifrost since it wouldn't work with the Modi at all. Having said that, i noticed with a Supra USB cable, the Mac could detect the Modi intermittently as opposed to using the Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable where no detection was noted at all. I suppose cable construction matters as well?


----------



## Rossliew

mark-sf said:


> I've got a mid-2013 Macbook Air 13" running Mavericks that I have used with a few DACs including Practical Devices XM6, iBasso D-Zero and Oppo BDP-105 and have had no problems having them recognized or making noises either on AC or battery. I do ensure that they are powered on before I plug in the USB cable.


 
 Luck of the draw for me perhaps..the setup looks pretty messy now with cables running all over..might spring for a Wyrd one day.
  
 Anyone has one who can chime in as to its effectiveness?


----------



## jeremy205100

It's pretty freaky how everyone is having a different experience.


----------



## 65535

rossliew said:


> I suppose cable construction matters as well?


 
  
 Definitely, the USB specification is pretty specific about cable construction for good reason. My go to is either Monoprice, Belkin, or USBFirewire for known good USB cables. Boutique and other "audiophile" cables have been made out of spec for whatever reason and given people all sorts of trouble. They are best avoided. Also even the BiFrost uses USB power to run the USB interface so it will have similar issues to a Modi or Gungnir.


----------



## jeremy205100

65535 said:


> Definitely, the USB specification is pretty specific about cable construction for good reason. My go to is either Monoprice, Belkin, or USBFirewire for known good USB cables. Boutique and other "audiophile" cables have been made out of spec for whatever reason and given people all sorts of trouble. They are best avoided. Also even the BiFrost uses USB power to run the USB interface so it will have similar issues to a Modi or Gungnir.


 
 Do all DACs with USB require at least some USB power to run the specification? I was under the impression that if the DAC was powered it would be just like a powered external hard drive and just require the data.


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Luck of the draw for me perhaps..the setup looks pretty messy now with cables running all over..might spring for a Wyrd one day.
> 
> Anyone has one who can chime in as to its effectiveness?


 
 I use my 2012 MBA with Mavericks and it has been able to detect the Bifrost, the Gungnir and the Geek Out without a problem and without any noise thus far (knock on wood).


----------



## Maxvla

jeremy205100 said:


> Do all DACs with USB require at least some USB power to run the specification? I was under the impression that if the DAC was powered it would be just like a powered external hard drive and just require the data.



Most DACs do use USB power for that portion of the DAC, but some don't. Generally those that don't will sound better.


----------



## Tachikoma

So... how long should we expect to wait before a 240V AC adapter for the Wyrd becomes available?


----------



## kothganesh

tachikoma said:


> So... how long should we expect to wait before a 240V AC adapter for the Wyrd becomes available?


 
 +1. I still have it in my shopping cart on Schiit's website but need that 240V.


----------



## Nada190

Trying to save some money, should I get the Modi optical or Bifrost? I'm going to pair it with the Asgard 2. Or should I stick with the onboard DAC of my Creative zxr?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

nada190 said:


> Trying to save some money, should I get the Modi optical or Bifrost? I'm going to pair it with the Asgard 2. Or should I stick with the onboard DAC of my Creative zxr?


 

 Nada, don't know what your onboard DAC is, but everything I have read says the outboard DAC, the Modi or Bitfrost should be substantially better, less noise, superior DAC


----------



## reddog

Yes a Schiit portable amp would Devine. Something as powerful as a 02 but as small as a fiio e12.


----------



## TeskR

reddog said:


> Yes a Schiit portable amp would Devine. Something as powerful as a 02 but as small as a fiio e12.


 
 Doesn't the e12 put out more power than the O2?
  
 FiiO's site says 880 mW into 32 ohms, whereas O2 is 613 mW into 33 ohms.


----------



## reddog

True the e12 has more power but the 02 seemed to have better synergy when running my alpha dogs. A guy at work let me play with his 02, and liked the synergy with my alpha dogs however the e12 runs my dt 880 600 ohm cans just fine as well as my ath m50x.


----------



## superjawes

nada190 said:


> Trying to save some money, should I get the Modi optical or Bifrost? I'm going to pair it with the Asgard 2. Or should I stick with the onboard DAC of my Creative zxr?


Assuming you want a DAC, I think the real questions to think about are:

Do you think you would ever need or want USB?
Do you want the ability to upgrade your DAC in the future?

If you get Modi, you will never be able to get USB without buying another one (USB Modi). That is still substantially cheaper than a vanilla Bifrost, but you'd have everything in one box instead of two.

The advantage of Bifrost is the upgrade path. There's already an Uber upgrade out there for better analog sound, and if the technology improves to allow another upgrade, Schiit will give you the option of buying a new (Uber-Uber?) upgrade instead of having to replace the whole DAC. You could also get an optical Bifrost and add USB later if you wanted or needed it, and that's another thing that Schiit can upgrade so you can use it with the latest and greatest USB specs.


----------



## BBEG

Ok, Monoprice Toslink cables came in today so I finally get the chance to test my new Schiit stack.
  
  
*Asus Maximus V Gene SPDIF output*
*Modi Optical DAC*
*RCA PYST** cables*
*Magni Amp*
*Monoprice 1m Toslink Cables *(standard & premium)
*HD 600*
*Foobar 2000*
  
  
 First impressions are... bad. There is this very tinny, garage sound to everything I play. FLAC, MP3, doesn't matter. Additionally, it seems only the lower frequencies and some treble exists; a large majority of the mids and lower treble is simply gone.
  
 Anyone have any advice for me? Something I can test or adjust? I'm beyond myself that right now my mostly-dead FiiO E17 sounds better than a proper dedicated amp/dac.


----------



## AladdinSane

Did you disable motherboard sound in BIOS?


----------



## kinger2005

Are the digital outputs at max volume?


----------



## BBEG

aladdinsane said:


> Did you disable motherboard sound in BIOS?


 
  
 No. I would not hear sound at all via motherboard outputs if this were the case. I verified this anyway though.
  
  


kinger2005 said:


> Are the digital outputs at max volume?


 
  
 Yes. The only thing not max volume is the Magni itself.
  
  
  
  
*Edit:* in Realtek Digital Output(Optical) Properties, I can hear sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48.0 kHz, 96.0 kHz, but _not _192.0 kHz. The Modi Optical is supposed to be able to manage up to 192 kHz sample rates so I'm not sure what's going on there.


----------



## tehsprayer

bbeg said:


> No. I would not hear sound at all via motherboard outputs if this were the case. I verified this anyway though.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. The only thing not max volume is the Magni itself.


 
 Make sure any software affecting the sound is disabled. Maybe your motherboard's sound card has an equalizer or a foobar plugin


----------



## BBEG

No Foobar plugins that I know of and I even uninstalled Realtek's driver and let Windows do its thing natively. Same effects.


----------



## Mark-sf

bbeg said:


> *Edit:* in Realtek Digital Output(Optical) Properties, I can hear sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48.0 kHz, 96.0 kHz, but _not _192.0 kHz. The Modi Optical is supposed to be able to manage up to 192 kHz sample rates so I'm not sure what's going on there.


 
 The Monoprice optical cables are plastic fibre not glass and do not have the bandwidth to support 24/192. You should be using higher quality glass fibre cables assuming that your computer has the capability to support 192 (Mac does not). You can get them from $20+ on Amazon for example.


----------



## Mark-sf

bbeg said:


> No Foobar plugins that I know of and I even uninstalled Realtek's driver and let Windows do its thing natively. Same effects.


 
 Did you check Shiit's DAC Problem FAQ at http://schiit.com/faq/dac-problems?


----------



## 65535

Run everything at the native sample rate of your music. It's possible your computer is butchering the SRC when trying to hit 192kHz. 44.1kHz should be the ideal sample rate for your music.


----------



## Mambosenior

mark-sf said:


> The Monoprice optical cables are plastic fibre not glass and do not have the bandwidth to support 24/192.




Bandwidth? On a digital cable? Please elaborate. All my plastic (not glass) optical cables function properly with 24/192 music out of four different DACs.


----------



## AladdinSane

Ooops sorry, was thinking USB. Try other suggestions.


----------



## Mark-sf

mambosenior said:


> Bandwidth? On a digital cable? Please elaborate. All my plastic (not glass) optical cables function properly with 24/192 music out of four different DACs.


 
 Why do you not believe digital transmissions are subject to bandwidth? A 24/192 stereo signal will generate a 9MHz+ bit stream (192,000x24x2).  Typical plastic fibre cables max out about 6MHz which is fine for 24/96 which is the max most optical digital devices support. What Source, DAC, cable brand and length are you using as they all play a role?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

bbeg said:


> Ok, Monoprice Toslink cables came in today so I finally get the chance to test my new Schiit stack.
> 
> 
> *Asus Maximus V Gene SPDIF output*
> ...


 
  
 Do you not have wasapi turned on? I'm using some 15 foot optical cable to my receiver and everything sounds fine. I didn't get it from monoprice but it's evidently the same thing, 24/192khz comes out as well (although I no longer use 24/192 but that is a subject we won't get into)


----------



## BBEG

mark-sf said:


> The Monoprice optical cables are plastic fibre not glass and do not have the bandwidth to support 24/192. You should be using higher quality glass fibre cables assuming that your computer has the Win drivers to support 192 (OS X doesn't need them). You can get them from $20+ on Amazon for example.


 
  
 Understood. The files I'm playing are not 24/192 though; I guess I'll be getting a glass fiber cable after all though...
  
  


mark-sf said:


> Did you check Shiit's DAC Problem FAQ at http://schiit.com/faq/dac-problems?


 
  
 I have. None of it applies to me. I'm trying standard 16 / 44.1 stuff right now and my PC is more than capable of handling the work involved.


----------



## 65535

Is your machine overclocked?


----------



## BBEG

*Found the problem!*
  
 Turns out the issue is actually my 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter. I _thought_ I was using the Sennheiser 3.5 -> 6.3 adapter but was actually using the Somic adapter that came with my MH-463s. I just found my Sennheiser adapter (the black one) and the sound quality is much better. Found via going in order from Schiit's troubleshooting email (much obliged, Nick!).
  
 Just to nix this issue in the future, can someone recommend a replacement cable for the HD 600 that terminates in a 6.3mm plug?


----------



## BBEG

65535 said:


> Is your machine overclocked?


 
  
 Doesn't hurt a thing unless it's a borderline unstable overclock. My particular 2600k is benchmark and gaming stable at 5.1GHz on air, so the piddly 4.3GHz I'm on now is nothing.


----------



## RickB

bbeg said:


> *Found the problem!*
> 
> Turns out the issue is actually my 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter. I _thought_ I was using the Sennheiser 3.5 -> 6.3 adapter but was actually using the Somic adapter that came with my MH-463s. I just found my Sennheiser adapter (the black one) and the sound quality is much better. Found via going in order from Schiit's CS email (much obliged, Nick!).
> 
> Just to nix this issue in the future, can someone recommend a replacement cable for the HD 600 that terminates in a 6.3mm plug?


 

 The HD650 cable has a 6.3mm plug, and is cheaper than the HD600 cable.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

bbeg said:


> *Found the problem!*
> 
> Turns out the issue is actually my 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter. I _thought_ I was using the Sennheiser 3.5 -> 6.3 adapter but was actually using the Somic adapter that came with my MH-463s. I just found my Sennheiser adapter (the black one) and the sound quality is much better. Found via going in order from Schiit's CS email (much obliged, Nick!).
> 
> Just to nix this issue in the future, can someone recommend a replacement cable for the HD 600 that terminates in a 6.3mm plug?


 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Cable-SENNHEISER-Headphones-HD650/dp/B0028PGXRE


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

bbeg said:


> *Found the problem!*
> 
> Turns out the issue is actually my 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter. I _thought_ I was using the Sennheiser 3.5 -> 6.3 adapter but was actually using the Somic adapter that came with my MH-463s. I just found my Sennheiser adapter (the black one) and the sound quality is much better. Found via going in order from Schiit's CS email (much obliged, Nick!).
> 
> Just to nix this issue in the future, can someone recommend a replacement cable for the HD 600 that terminates in a 6.3mm plug?


 
 I broke my Sennheiser adapter awhile back. I went through three replacements and could not match the sound that the stock Sennheiser gave. Waited 7 weeks due to them being backordered.


----------



## BBEG

blackenedplague said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Cable-SENNHEISER-Headphones-HD650/dp/B0028PGXRE


 
  
 While appreciated, I'm looking more at something like this:
  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=121175517188
  
  
 I have no need for a 3m long cable and have been meaning to replace it with a shorter cable anyway. I imagine something like this is of comparable quality to the stock cable, but terminating in a proper 6.3mm plug and being available in the 1.2m length I'd prefer.


----------



## 65535

Send me $25, and I'll send you a stock HD650 cable with a Neutrik NP3X Nickel or Black at the length you desire.


----------



## madwolfa

bbeg said:


> Understood. The files I'm playing are not 24/192 though; I guess I'll be getting a glass fiber cable after all though...




Don't fret, I have a V Gene, the onboard on it doesn't support 24/192 digital output properly. I've tried it with 300$ glass cable too and 2 different DACs.


----------



## Nada190

How do you tell the music is actually being played at 192 and not 96?


----------



## 65535

If the track is a 192kHz sample rate file and you have a sound card that supports 192kHz sample rates and it's set to 192kHz then everything is peachy. If you have a 44.1kHz sample rate file and you have everything else set to 192kHz you are wasting processing power and time. Plus you increase the chance of errors while performing the sample rate conversion. 192kHz sample rates for lower sample rate files is foolish at best.


----------



## BBEG

65535 said:


> Send me $25, and I'll send you a stock HD650 cable with a Neutrik NP3X Nickel or Black at the length you desire.


 
  
 PM me your paypal. And start a marketplace topic if you want feedback rep.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

nada190 said:


> How do you tell the music is actually being played at 192 and not 96?


 
  
 You can't unless your dac says so


----------



## Tuco1965

blackenedplague said:


> You can't unless your dac says so


 
 JRiver MC indicates exactly what sampling rate and bit depth are being fed to connected DACs.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

tuco1965 said:


> JRiver MC indicates exactly what sampling rate and bit depth are being fed to connected DACs.


 
  
 But that's all you need isn't it?


----------



## Tuco1965

blackenedplague said:


> But that's all you need isn't it?


 
 I'm not sure I understand.


----------



## 65535

You need audio files sampled at 192kHz, a 192kHz capable playback software (pretty much all of them are), and a sound card capable of 192kHz sample rate.


----------



## Tuco1965

65535 said:


> You need audio files sampled at 192kHz, a 192kHz capable playback software (pretty much all of them are), and a sound card capable of 192kHz sample rate.


 
  
 I would think that would be a given to play 192khz.


----------



## 65535

I would think so to, not that I can fathom why bother with 192kHz files but hey.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

tuco1965 said:


> I'm not sure I understand.


 
  
 don't worry about it


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

Saw the review on the main page of the Asgard 2. I have been looking for ways to add like a textured rubber band of some sort for the volume knob on my Lyr. In the review, he used 3 o-rings. Has anyone made any modifications of their own?


----------



## 65535

symphonictxn7 said:


> Saw the review on the main page of the Asgard 2. I have been looking for ways to add like a textured rubber band of some sort for the volume knob on my Lyr. In the review, he used 3 o-rings. Has anyone made any modifications of their own?




I don't have an Asgard but it would be kind of cool to cut some grooves on it with a lathe and add o-rings or add a rubber belt to it.


----------



## Nada190

How can I plug two different amps into one dac? Or can I plug another amp into one of Schiit's preamps? I really want a Schiit Asgard and Lyr but don't want to buy another DAC.


----------



## fenderf4i

nada190 said:


> How can I plug two different amps into one dac? Or can I plug another amp into one of Schiit's preamps? I really want a Schiit Asgard and Lyr but don't want to buy another DAC.





Just use a Y-splitter out of the DAC.


----------



## StanD

fenderf4i said:


> Just use a Y-splitter out of the DAC.


 
 That's what I do with my Bifrost when I use an A/B switch to connect my headphones to the two Amps' outputs.


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> That's what I do with my Bifrost when I use an A/B switch to connect my headphones to the two Amps' outputs.


 
 Or go fancy with the Schiit SYS. So fancy!


----------



## StanD

If you want to A/B amps with one set of headphones and used the SYS in reverse, you'll still need the Y cables between the DAC and both amps.


----------



## JoeDoe

Second Schitt Stack assembled earlier this week. Loving everything I throw at it. If the A2 wasn't so dang hot, it'd be perfect!


----------



## Nada190

fenderf4i said:


> Just use a Y-splitter out of the DAC.


 
  
 Would that affect the sound quality? Also what kind of y-splitter?


----------



## Tuco1965

nada190 said:


> Would that affect the sound quality? Also what kind of y-splitter?


 
  
 No it won't.  I use solid rca t connectors.


----------



## Mark-sf

nada190 said:


> Would that affect the sound quality? Also what kind of y-splitter?


 
 No, as the Bifrost has a sufficiently low output impedance. Either of these types will work in stereo pairs:


----------



## fenderf4i

I went with the Viablue splitters myself, because they're very nice, and I don't mind spending a couple of bucks for nicer.


----------



## Tuco1965

fenderf4i said:


> I went with the Viablue splitters myself, because they're very nice, and I don't mind spending a couple of bucks for nicer.


 
 Those look good.  I purchased mine from on ebay and they look good and are all solid.  Definitely nicer looking than a y cable.


----------



## CJs06

fenderf4i said:


> I went with the Viablue splitters myself, because they're very nice, and I don't mind spending a couple of bucks for nicer.


 
 So fancy!


----------



## madwolfa

joedoe said:


> If the A2 wasn't so dang hot, it'd be perfect!


 
  
 It wouldn't be Asgard!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

mark-sf said:


>


 
  
 these things are fundamental when cap-carding consoles for twitch, livestream, hitbog, etc.


----------



## Saraguie

blackenedplague said:


> these things are fundamental when cap-carding consoles for twitch, livestream, hitbog, etc.


 
 What the hell is a hitbog? lol  I won't show my ignorance and say I don't know what cap-carding means lol.


----------



## TeskR

saraguie said:


> What the hell is a hitbog? lol  I won't show my ignorance and say I don't know what cap-carding means lol.


 
  
 Know idea  what Hitbog is, but cap-carding is capture carding so your using a video capture card to record what your console is doing and send it to your PC so you can stream or make videos etc.


----------



## Saraguie

teskr said:


> Know idea  what Hitbog is, but cap-carding is capture carding so your using a video capture card to record what your console is doing and send it to your PC so you can stream or make videos etc.


 
 Ahhhh....I think i understand thanks! I;m sure someone will chime in on hitbog


----------



## crazychile

Ok Schiit owners...Which interconnects would you recommend for around the $75 price range for .5 Meter? I have a Lyr 2 and a Modi which will be replaced with a Bifrost Uber in the next few months. My primary headphones are Audio Technica ATH-M50s and AKG-K702s. Which interconnects should I look at to run between the Lyr 2 and the Modi?
  
 Thanks,
 crazychile


----------



## CJs06

crazychile said:


> Ok Schiit owners...Which interconnects would you recommend for around the $75 price range for .5 Meter? I have a Lyr 2 and a Modi which will be replaced with a Bifrost Uber in the next few months. My primary headphones are Audio Technica ATH-M50s and AKG-K702s. Which interconnects should I look at to run between the Lyr 2 and the Modi?
> 
> Thanks,
> crazychile




Monoprice RCA interconnects.


----------



## fenderf4i

The Audioquest are very nice in the $25 range if you want something a bit flashier, they're very nicely made for that kind of money.


----------



## 65535

crazychile said:


> Ok Schiit owners...Which interconnects would you recommend for around the $75 price range for .5 Meter? I have a Lyr 2 and a Modi which will be replaced with a Bifrost Uber in the next few months. My primary headphones are Audio Technica ATH-M50s and AKG-K702s. Which interconnects should I look at to run between the Lyr 2 and the Modi?
> 
> Thanks,
> crazychile


 
  
  
 For $75 I'll make you a pair of custom cables with materials cost upto $55.


----------



## Mark-sf

crazychile said:


> Ok Schiit owners...Which interconnects would you recommend for around the $75 price range for .5 Meter? I have a Lyr 2 and a Modi which will be replaced with a Bifrost Uber in the next few months. My primary headphones are Audio Technica ATH-M50s and AKG-K702s. Which interconnects should I look at to run between the Lyr 2 and the Modi?
> 
> Thanks,
> crazychile


 
 I have used Mogami 2534 Quad cable for 20 years. You can find them pre-made at Pro sites such as Martek starting at $32 a pair or choose your own custom length and connectors at sites such as Redco Audio. Mogami is not marketed to audiophiles but is well-known and respected in pro audio.


----------



## crazychile

cjs06 said:


> Monoprice RCA interconnects.


 

 I have some of those. Decent build but sonically nothing special. I also have a set of the Schiit Pyst cables and they don't sound as good as the old cheap Rockford Fosgate cables I have on there now. I forgot to mention those previously but both will probably get cycled into the AV system. I was looking into something better.
 Thanks!


----------



## crazychile

fenderf4i said:


> The Audioquest are very nice in the $25 range if you want something a bit flashier, they're very nicely made for that kind of money.


 

 Is that what you're using? I would consider them if they were really awesome, but I already have old pairs of Audioquest Rubys and Wireworld Solstice. (Although in 1m, not .5m) so I'm not feeling too confident they would be an improvement over what I currently own.
  
 Thanks


----------



## crazychile

mark-sf said:


> I have used Mogami 2534 Quad cable for 20 years. You can find them pre-made at Pro sites such as Martek starting at $32 a pair or choose your own custom length and connectors at sites such as Redco Audio. Mogami is not marketed to audiophiles but is well-known and respected in pro audio.


 
  
 Thanks. I'll check those out. Ive used Mogami  in some DIY projects in the past.


----------



## fenderf4i

crazychile said:


> Is that what you're using? I would consider them if they were really awesome, but I already have old pairs of Audioquest Rubys and Wireworld Solstice. (Although in 1m, not .5m) so I'm not feeling too confident they would be an improvement over what I currently own.
> 
> Thanks




If you believe you can hear a difference between them, then you had better spend more than $75 on a cable to get what you want.


----------



## eee1111

i am getting a pair of hd 600's and i am looking to see if i need an amp
  
 my setup is an onkyo receiver (average quality) with 4 devices connected via hdmi ....(videogame systems- blu-ray)
  
 i want to know if the receiver is good enough to power the headphones or i should get a amp
  
 if i do get an amp maybe asgard 2......how would i go about getting the best sound(CONNECTING IT)?
  
 i was also thinking of getting a oppo bdp 193d ....to play all blu-ray and use as a music player ......CD Flac Wma ect.....
  
 would connecting my receiver to a headphone amp be needed........i would like to listen with the best possible quality


----------



## madwolfa

Headphones like HD600 always benefit from a good amplifier. Asgard is a great choice, but you have to make sure that your source has a line level (unamplified) RCA output.
 Then you might consider buying a separate DAC too.


----------



## StanD

eee1111 said:


> i am getting a pair of hd 600's and i am looking to see if i need an amp
> 
> my setup is an onkyo receiver (average quality) with 4 devices connected via hdmi ....(videogame systems- blu-ray)
> 
> ...


 
 The HD600 has a bump in the impedance curve, if the Onkyo has a series resistor in the headphone output, then you will get a bass hump that is loose, IMO not good. Many times this resistor is about 120 Ohms.
 The Asgard 2 works beautifully with the HD600, I have both. Connecting is simple, just plug the HD600's into the Asgard 2 and enjoy. IMO buying expensive interconnects from your source or DAC to a headphone amp is a waste of money. A Monoprice or equivalent is fine.
 As said, I would most likely connect the monitor out, or line out of the receiver to a headphone amp.


----------



## Mark-sf

eee1111 said:


> i am getting a pair of hd 600's and i am looking to see if i need an amp
> 
> my setup is an onkyo receiver (average quality) with 4 devices connected via hdmi ....(videogame systems- blu-ray)
> 
> ...




Yes an amp is highly recommended to get full value from your HD600's. You should connect the amp to the tape outputs or the Oppo outputs directly and not the preamp outputs of your receiver to get best sound. This eliminates multiple volume controls and preamp stages.


----------



## eee1111

i figured going from source to receiver to headphone amp would be an issue
  
 dissapointing cause i have a few other devices i wont be getting the most out of
  
 i will just connect the oppo audio to the headphone amp and listen to blu-ray and music (flac and other files) that way
  
  
 so all i would need is the ASGARD 2 and a pair of RCA 
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2
  
  
 and i am good to go right?
  
 the dac is in the OPPO BDP-103D


----------



## eee1111

*1.5ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG*
*is good enough right?...its $2.50*


----------



## eee1111

what kind of performance boost would be seen from the Valhalla 2 over the Asgard 2

 

not much for a pair like the hd 600's right?


----------



## Tuco1965

eee1111 said:


> *1.5ft Premium 2 RCA Plug/2 RCA Plug M/M 22AWG*
> *is good enough right?...its $2.50*


 
  
 Yes it is.  They worked fine for me until I had some very short custom ones made.


----------



## mwillits

I've been happy with a set of XLR cables I ordered from BlueJean Cable. Their RCA interconnects are also very nice for the price. I like that they offer different color options (I went with the blue cabling) and you can get exactly the length you need.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


----------



## madwolfa

mwillits said:


> I've been happy with a set of XLR cables I ordered from BlueJean Cable. Their RCA interconnects are also very nice for the price.
> 
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm


 
 +1


----------



## StanD

eee1111 said:


> what kind of performance boost would be seen from the Valhalla 2 over the Asgard 2
> 
> 
> 
> not much for a pair like the hd 600's right?


 
 The Valhalla 2 delivers more power at 300 Ohms, far more than you'll need with an HD600. If you are entertaining the thought of low impedance cans that are not power efficient then the Valhalla 2 is not going to cut it. If you must have the tube sound, something that I do not believe really exists in a top flight tube amp, then the Valhalla 2 is a good option. If you want a clean and clear all 'rounder, then the Asgard 2 is a great choice.


----------



## eee1111

madwolfa said:


> Headphones like HD600 always benefit from a good amplifier. Asgard is a great choice, but you have to make sure that your source has a line level (unamplified) RCA output.
> Then you might consider buying a separate DAC too.


 
 how do i know it is a line level (unamplified) RCA output?
  
 http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103D-Features.aspx
  
 i know it has a dac in it


----------



## Zojokkeli

My Asgard 2 arrived today and holy smokes do the larger Schiits look sexy! Can't wait to stack Uberfrost under it, after I'm done with some unexpected expenditures.


----------



## madwolfa

eee1111 said:


> how do i know it is a line level (unamplified) RCA output?
> 
> http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103D-Features.aspx
> 
> i know it has a dac in it


 
  
 Well, every CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player has some sort of DAC in it, otherwise, how would it produce any sound from a digital content?
  
 I guess you could use your Oppo as a stereo line source (FL/FR) if its built-in DAC is decent enough. It looks like its analog outputs are not amplified.
 Or use one of its digital outputs with an external DAC.


----------



## StanD

eee1111 said:


> how do i know it is a line level (unamplified) RCA output?
> 
> http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103D-Features.aspx
> 
> i know it has a dac in it


 
 Analog Audio: 7.1ch, 5.1ch, *stereo*.
See those RCA jacks on back and read page 16 of the user manual, the link is below.

 Coaxial/Optical Audio: Dolby Digital, DTS, up to 2ch/192kHz PCM.
To connect to an external DAC, etc
  

http://download.oppodigital.com/BDP103/BDP-103D_USER_MANUAL_English_v1.1.pdf


----------



## madwolfa

Using those RCA outputs for a headphone amp only doesn't make sense, though.. So I'd rather use a digital output/external DAC for it.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Using those RCA outputs for a headphone amp only doesn't make sense, though.. So I'd rather use a digital output/external DAC for it.


 
 An Uber Bifrost without USB would do the trick. Followed by an Asgard 2.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> An Uber Bifrost without USB would do the trick. Followed by an Asgard 2.


 
  
 That's right.


----------



## eee1111

stand said:


> An Uber Bifrost without USB would do the trick. Followed by an Asgard 2.


 
 that is 600 just to get my hd 600's sounding good
  
 combined with the oppo 103d it is 1200
  
  
 the oppo 105 d has a ton of audiophille equipment in it including a headphone amp and it costs 1200


----------



## madwolfa

eee1111 said:


> the oppo 105 d has a ton of audiophille equipment in it including a headphone amp and it costs 1200


 
  
 Then you might be better served with 105D. Dedicated DAC/amp is a superior and more flexible solution, though.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Then you might be better served with 105D. *Dedicated DAC/amp is a superior and more flexible solution, though*.


 
 +1 Bingo on the dedicated DAC/Amp.


----------



## Defiant00

eee1111 said:


> how do i know it is a line level (unamplified) RCA output?
> 
> http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/blu-ray-BDP-103D-Features.aspx
> 
> i know it has a dac in it


 
  
 Honestly, easiest thing is to just try it with the various outputs (if there are multiple) and see which one you like best.
  
*Just be careful to turn the Asgard all the way down before you start any music playing!*
  
 Even if it's not a line level output, it still may sound very good; and if it turns out you want a better/different DAC later you've already got a good amp to go with it.
  
 People make a big deal about double-amping; but it isn't necessarily something you're going to notice.


----------



## Mark-sf

eee1111 said:


> that is 600 just to get my hd 600's sounding good
> 
> combined with the oppo 103d it is 1200
> 
> ...


 
 I have a BDP-105 that I run its stereo outs directly into my Lyr 2 and the sound is first class.  The DAC implementation in the OPPO players are excellent so I would not initially jump to the Bifrost as it will not give you the same improvement as going to the Asgard 2. If you are using HDMI to connect to your receiver, then you are NOT using the DAC in your Oppo for HT multichannel sound.  This would leave the analog outputs free for connecting to an Asgard.  If your receiver has multi-channel analog inputs (RCA) and you will be connecting your Oppo with these then you will be using your Oppo DAC for multichannel HT sound. You can then use a Tape Output from your receiver or a Y-Adapter on the FL/FR outputs of your Oppo to connect to the Asgard for optimum sound.  BTW connected this way, your Oppo handles the room surround setup not your receiver.
  
 I chose the 105 as it gave me a Class A DAC with optimized dedicated stereo outputs for pure stereo use as well as the standalone capabilities of a separate DAC along with the functionality of the 103 series.  Hope this helps.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

105 is class kit to drive my Schiit and Woo gear.


----------



## Nada190

Would you guys recommend the BJC optical cable? Or can someone point me in the direction of a good glass one, needs to be 6ft.


----------



## eee1111

mark-sf said:


> I have a BDP-105 that I run its stereo outs directly into my Lyr 2 and the sound is first class.  The DAC implementation in the OPPO players are excellent so I would not initially jump to the Bifrost as it will not give you the same improvement as going to the Asgard 2. If you are using HDMI to connect to your receiver, then you are NOT using the DAC in your Oppo for HT multichannel sound.  This would leave the analog outputs free for connecting to an Asgard.  If your receiver has multi-channel analog inputs (RCA) and you will be connecting your Oppo with these then you will be using your Oppo DAC for multichannel HT sound. You can then use a Tape Output from your receiver or a Y-Adapter on the FL/FR outputs of your Oppo to connect to the Asgard for optimum sound.  BTW connected this way, your Oppo handles the room surround setup not your receiver.
> 
> I chose the 105 as it gave me a Class A DAC with optimized dedicated stereo outputs for pure stereo use as well as the standalone capabilities of a separate DAC along with the functionality of the 103 series.  Hope this helps.


 
 yea kinda
 in the manual it says it has..................
*Composite video and analog audio jacks 
 (BD/DVD IN, VCR/DVR IN
  and 
 OUT, CBL/SAT IN, 
 GAME IN, TV/CD IN)*
  
  
 here is the manual. page 9 has the picture of the back with all inputs and outputs
  
 http://filedepot.onkyousa.com/Files/own_manuals/HT-S5600_English.pdf
  
 is what you said possible?....and by what you are saying that the oppo will take care of the sound and not the onkyo and also the asgard would take care of my hd 600s.......?
 why would you need a lyr2 on top of the 105........are the headphones absolutely amazing??....the headphone amp in the 105 nothing special?


----------



## madwolfa

nada190 said:


> Would you guys recommend the BJC optical cable? Or can someone point me in the direction of a good glass one, needs to be 6ft.


 
  
 I have BJC Optical and it's great, you don't need anything more expensive. It's not glass, but a very high quality plastic (Mitsubishi ESKA).


----------



## 65535

Optical S/PDIF is pretty robust I've pointed two 6' cables at eachother and had it work fine.


----------



## mwillits

Finally got everything setup just right.


----------



## jchandler3

mwillits said:


> Finally got everything setup just right.




Wow, beautiful setup! Love the clean look. BTW how are the Emotiva monitors?


----------



## fenderf4i

jchandler3 said:


> Wow, beautiful setup! Love the clean look. BTW how are the Emotiva monitors?




That was going to be my question as well.


----------



## mwillits

Thanks! This is the result of half a dozen different places on my desk, under my desk on a shelf, etc. I figured in this arrangement the Schiit stack would to be "on display" if that makes sense. 
  
 Good eye on spotting the the Emotiva Airmotiv 4S monitors! They are fantastic. Nice punchy bass and clear, articulate highs, particularly for listening to the acoustic / singer-songwriter music that I tend to enjoy. I wouldn't say they're the warmest (they are monitors, after all), but I enjoy them all the same.
  
 I do have a sub (Tannoy TS10) in the chain, but find that the Airmotivs are more than capable with handling the low-end, so I only have the sub dialed-in to handle the lowest frequencies. I considered the 5S monitors, but figured they'd be too much for the space I have available. 
  
 I must say that I'm very impressed with the versatility of the Gungnir and Mojlnir combination paired with powered speakers.


----------



## CJs06

mwillits said:


> Finally got everything setup just right.




Nice! I like it!
I swear it's hilarious how many times I've shuffled around and re-organized my listening and workstation setup. I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this


----------



## mwillits

cjs06 said:


> Nice! I like it!
> I swear it's hilarious how many times I've shuffled around and re-organized my listening and workstation setup. I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this


 
  
 Yes, you're definitely not alone. Moving the equipment is easy. The worst part is re-running all the XLR, USB, and power cables under my desk -- and doing it cleanly (I'm a little OCD this way...).


----------



## CJs06

mwillits said:


> Yes, you're definitely not alone. Moving the equipment is easy. The worst part is re-running all the XLR, USB, and power cables under my desk -- and doing it cleanly (I'm a little OCD this way...).


 
 Indeed, well done CM is always an OCD issue for me lol


----------



## jeremy205100

mwillits said:


> Finally got everything setup just right.


 
 Your handling of the cables is almost godly. I have an Xbox and monitor on my desk and there is a sea of cables behind it to connect it to my laptop, stereo, etc. I love the perfectly tied ones that come out right next to the USB hub. 
  
 You still have enough extra desk space for a 27" Thunderbolt display though haha, it'd only complete this drool-inspiring setup.


----------



## mwillits

jeremy205100 said:


> Your handling of the cables is almost godly. I have an Xbox and monitor on my desk and there is a sea of cables behind it to connect it to my laptop, stereo, etc. I love the perfectly tied ones that come out right next to the USB hub.
> 
> You still have enough extra desk space for a 27" Thunderbolt display though haha, it'd only complete this drool-inspiring setup.


 
  
 Under the perimeter of my desk is a cable tray and two rows of those black plastic C-clips to keep the longer runs of audio and power cables separate. 
  
 You read my mind regarding the extra space for a 27" Thunderbolt display: That's exactly the plan I have for the near future


----------



## joebobbilly

Definitely interested in getting the Emotiva 4S in the future. Glad to hear good things about them. Where did you get that desk shelf/stand for the stack? I'm looking for a solution for mine too to increase my desk space. The Schiit stack just takes up so much desktop real estate.


----------



## mwillits

joebobbilly said:


> Definitely interested in getting the Emotiva 4S in the future. Glad to hear good things about them. Where did you get that desk shelf/stand for the stack? I'm looking for a solution for mine too to increase my desk space. The Schiit stack just takes up so much desktop real estate.


 
  
 The desk and shelf is of the IKEA Galant series. If you notice, I put the back on upside-down to allow room for the cables to stick out the back of the Schiit units. 
  
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70173945/#/30173952


----------



## fenderf4i

mwillits said:


> Under the perimeter of my desk is a cable tray and two rows of those black plastic C-clips to keep the longer runs of audio and power cables separate.
> 
> You read my mind regarding the extra space for a 27" Thunderbolt display: That's exactly the plan I have for the near future


 

 Can you show a picture of that please?


----------



## radiojam

mwillits said:


> Finally got everything setup just right.


 
  
 Dude.  Duuuuuuude.
  
 (nice!)


----------



## darober2

I am very pleased with the Wyrd!  It adds a very low noise floor and completely eliminates all stray computer sounds the LCD-2 reproduces. The combination result is a sound replication that is very clear and solvent.  The only drawback is it seems to have reduced the soundstage a little.   The Wyrd is a much appreciated addition to my LCD-2 and it complements the upgraded Uber bifrost and Lyr with EAT cool valves perfectly


----------



## jexby

mwillits said:


> Finally got everything setup just right.


 
  
 the HiFi-M8 looks pretty lonely there.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

darober2 said:


> I am very pleased with the Wyrd!  It adds a very low noise floor and completely eliminates all stray computer sounds the LCD-2 reproduces. The combination result is a sound replication that is very clear and solvent.  The only drawback is it seems to have reduced the soundstage a little.   The Wyrd is a much appreciated addition to my LCD-2 and it complements the upgraded Uber bifrost and Lyr with EAT cool valves perfectly




+1, the Wyrd lowers the noise floor substantially. Music rises from inky,deep, black...and that is with a Modi, Lyr 2, Alpha Dogs, cannot wait to throw a Bitfrost in that chain.


----------



## darober2

Nice Alpha Dogs!  I hear the Lyr 2 is awesome! yea the bifrost is an excellent upgrade-I highly recommend getting both the Uber upgrade and USB upgrade right from the gun if you can spare the extra coin.  

 Nice to see So many Schiit-Heads talking Schiit!!!


----------



## kothganesh

darober2 said:


> I am very pleased with the Wyrd!  It adds a very low noise floor and completely eliminates all stray computer sounds the LCD-2 reproduces. The combination result is a sound replication that is very clear and solvent.  The only drawback is it seems to have reduced the soundstage a little.   The Wyrd is a much appreciated addition to my LCD-2 and it complements the upgraded Uber bifrost and Lyr with EAT cool valves perfectly


 
 I am a little concerned that the Wyrd can reduce the soundstage even if a little. This is your perception on the LCD-2 right?


----------



## 65535

The only thing the Wyrd could even possibly due is remove noise on the 5V line. This could help reduce noise of a poorly filtered USB Interface. Schiit implements USB well and the only thing Wyrd does for their own devices is eliminate USB power issues due to power management from the computer which causes the DAC to not work at all.

Any changes in sound are in the mind of the listener.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

65535 said:


> The only thing the Wyrd could even possibly due is remove noise on the 5V line. This could help reduce noise of a poorly filtered USB Interface. Schiit implements USB well and the only thing Wyrd does for their own devices is eliminate USB power issues due to power management from the computer which causes the DAC to not work at all.
> 
> Any changes in sound are in the mind of the listener.




Not exactly, a reduction in noise floor greatly improves the "sound", no?


----------



## madwolfa

wildcatsare1 said:


> Not exactly, a reduction in noise floor greatly improves the "sound", no?




That if the noise floor was audible to start with... And even then I doubt its impact on perceived audio quality is that great.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

madwolfa said:


> That if the noise floor was audible to start with... And even then I doubt its impact on perceived audio quality is that great.




Have you heard a Wyrd in your system? I heard the difference with marginally resolving HD650's, clear as day with the Alpha Dogs. A question, you roll tubes, no? Why do tubes have unique sonic signatures?


----------



## madwolfa

wildcatsare1 said:


> A question, you roll tubes, no? Why do tubes have unique sonic signatures?




Oh myyy... not again.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^✌️Let's all just get along, lol......


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^At the moment Townes Van Zandt is singing so sweetly at the Old Quarter in Houston Texas, 1973, so I am inclined to put fussing and debating aside, at the present moment .


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> Have you heard a Wyrd in your system? I heard the difference with marginally resolving HD650's, clear as day with the Alpha Dogs. A question, you roll tubes, no? Why do tubes have unique sonic signatures?


 
 Never doubt the power of the human imagination.


----------



## mwillits

jexby said:


> the HiFi-M8 looks pretty lonely there.


 
  
 Haha, don't let the picture fool you. I've only ever left that M8 at home once since I got it. It's my constant work-on-the-go coffee shop companion.


----------



## darober2

yes, I felt that the soundstage was noticeably reduced. This is using the 2ed version LCD-2 with a Moon Audio silver dragon V3 signature cable from the headphones to the Lyr, ESP power cables and Nordost White Lightning RCA interconnects.


----------



## StanD

darober2 said:


> yes, I felt that the soundstage was noticeably reduced. This is using the 2ed version LCD-2 with a Moon Audio silver dragon V3 signature cable from the headphones to the Lyr, ESP power cables and Nordost White Lightning RCA interconnects.


 
 How does an ESP power cable actually improve the workings of a Lyr? Certainly it can be more durable and have a nicer appearance.


----------



## jeremy205100

stand said:


> How does an ESP power cable actually improve the workings of a Lyr? Certainly it can be more durable and have a nicer appearance.


 

 I don't understand the purpose of $1,000 power cables, except appearance and durability, so I too am curious...


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> How does an ESP power cable actually improve the workings of a Lyr? Certainly it can be more durable and have a nicer appearance.


 
  
  


jeremy205100 said:


> I don't understand the purpose of $1,000 power cables, except appearance and durability, so I too am curious...


 
 I just took a peek at their website, the Music Cord (power cord) that I saw goes for $150 USD. Their claims seem very far reaching, IMO outrageous,see below.

Compressed Dynamic Range
Thin, One-Dimensional Tone
Attenuated Bass Response
Hiss, Buzz and Noisy Backgrounds
 ​IMO all ridiculous except possibly some rare case of buzz or noise, however, it'll usually take more than a shielded power cord to eradicate interference.
They have more claims on their page, I just can't believe any of it. If anyone really wants to buy this stuff or believe the claims, I'm not stopping them.


----------



## jeremy205100

I'm sure it sounds nice to your mind which could make some difference.


----------



## StanD

jeremy205100 said:


> I'm sure it sounds nice to your mind which could make some difference.


 
 Notice my signature? "*When it comes to listening, the human imagination is more powerful than reality.*"


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Notice my signature? "[COLOR=6A6A6A]*When it comes to listening, the human imagination is more powerful than reality.*[/COLOR]"



Truer words were never spoken.


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> Notice my signature? "*When it comes to listening, the human imagination is more powerful than reality.*"


 
  
 when it comes to *anything*, the human imagination is more powerful.
 yet a blanket statement doesn't decide any debate, subjective or objective.
  
 back on topic:
 to anyone with a GeekOut and a Wyrd-
 my GO450 direct into macbook pro has TOTAL black background from what I can hear with IEMs and HP50.
 soundstage is very "up front/front row".
  
 doubting Wyrd has any benefit since Wyrd doesn't have any memory buffer for those occasional "CPU is busy, less than 1sec usb transfer drop outs".
 happy to be proven wrong tho if others have experience with Wyrd in their chain.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## 65535

I believe it is just reclocking the USB signal, I'm fairly certain it doesn't incorporate any buffer, which admittedly would be good for a lot of systems with issues like that.


----------



## UmustBKidn

stand said:


> Notice my signature? "*When it comes to listening, the human imagination is more powerful than reality.*"


 
  
 This is true for many things other than listening.
  
 I will avoid producing a list, mainly because I like my membership


----------



## StanD

As far as memory buffers and fancy clocking, I think the Wyrd's intended purpose was isolation as to prevent ground loops and related noise and not much else.


----------



## fenderf4i

People that are interested in the Wyrd (or not) should maybe read the FAQ on the Schiit website. I think it's pretty straight forward at explaining what it does and doesn't do.


----------



## darober2

To StanD- here are the words strait from the horses mouths at Schiit. 
  
So, what the heck is this little thing? Well, it’s either the world’s most expensive and limited USB hub, or it’s the key to eliminating sticky USB audio problems. Simply put, it cleans up your USB connection, eliminating noise and glitches caused by crappy USB power or USB port power management. 
The Cure for Noise and Glitches
Have you ever heard strange noise from your USB DAC? Or have you had it “drop out” after the computer goes to sleep? Or does your computer have trouble recognizing your DAC at all? It could be due to noisy USB power, or USB port power management (very common with Windows 8 and Mac Mavericks.)

 I use an Imac to run my sound and to me I did hear more resolution and clarity as well as a narrowed soundfield which, to me, is an acceptable trade off.  

 As far as my preference to upgrade my power cables it works like this- I live in an apartment that the voltage and amps change alot and i want to protect my gear as much as possible so I run extra insulated power cables, power conditioner and voltage ups unit to manage the voltage.  All of the above will improve the noise floor to near silent.  even running a tube amp like the Lyr.

 Now RCA cables and upgraded USB cables are a completely different animal. I highly recommend buying USB and RCA cables through monoprice.com.  The cables are very inexpensive and high build quality.  I choose to buy custom cables because Im after a certain tone quality and RCA cables will affect timbre and tone greatly.   

 On Last comment- I am a Berklee trained musician with relative pitch- my ears are very very sensitive.  Most people cannot hear the changes I notice- its a blessing and a curse.    Please continue to question everything in the audiophile world..There is ALOT!! of smoky mirror products and too many people have snake oil to sell you.  It is very addicting to be an audiophile but the fundamental question we must ask is "how perfect does my sound system need to be."

 Happy hunting


----------



## hellfire8888

hi i need help here.. comparing Asgard 2 , Lyr 2 and Vahalla which one produce the warmest music?


----------



## jaywillin

hellfire8888 said:


> hi i need help here.. comparing Asgard 2 , Lyr 2 and Vahalla which one produce the warmest music?


 
  
  the vahalla


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jeremy205100 said:


> I don't understand the purpose of $1,000 power cables, except appearance and durability, so I too am curious...


----------



## Nada190

Hey guys, which amp would be better for the Beyerdynamic T1's, Asgard or Lyr?


----------



## madwolfa

nada190 said:


> Hey guys, which amp would be better for the Beyerdynamic T1's, Asgard or Lyr?


 
  
 Valhalla


----------



## grrorr76

madwolfa said:


> Valhalla


 
 I have the Valhalla 2 with the Beyerdynamic T1's they sound great together.


----------



## reddog

How does the t1 sound? I have thought about saving up for a pair, for the t1's can be found for a cool price on Amazon sometimes. Please have a goodnight.


----------



## Nada190

Have you tried them with a SS amp before? How much does it warm them up?
  
 I also need my amp to play well with everything not just Beyer's which is why I like the Asgard 2 more.
  
 Whoa edit again!
  
 After looking at the Schiit page for the 100th time, which makes me laugh each time, I think I will get the Valhalla 2. Maybe get the Magni for my solid-state needs?


----------



## CJs06

nada190 said:


> Have you tried them with a SS amp before? How much does it warm them up?
> 
> I also need my amp to play well with everything not just Beyer's which is why I like the Asgard 2 more.
> 
> ...



It's hard to go wrong with the Magni. As Schiit says, "it may be the only amp you'll ever need". I'd imagine not many here take these words in any sort of applicable measure


----------



## grrorr76

reddog said:


> How does the t1 sound? I have thought about saving up for a pair, for the t1's can be found for a cool price on Amazon sometimes. Please have a goodnight.


 
  
  


nada190 said:


> Have you tried them with a SS amp before? How much does it warm them up?
> 
> I also need my amp to play well with everything not just Beyer's which is why I like the Asgard 2 more.
> 
> ...


 
 They sound great. But the t1's have a lot of high end extension so if you don't have an amp that reproduces high frequencies in a smooth linear way they can be quite grating. This is why I got the valhalla because with the rite tubes installed it sounds just wonderful. Yes I have tried the t1's with a SS amp and frankly I didn't like the combination. Tubes all the way for me. My setup is cambridge Dacmagic 100 into valhalla 2 its a great setup. Also note that the t1's show up badly recorded or mastered material a lot. I only play uncompressed files through it and mostly hi res 24bit files.


----------



## reddog

Sweet, the T1's Sound like they will be fun to hear. If I get them, I have a Lyr 2 to power them. Please have a good evening.


----------



## grrorr76

reddog said:


> Sweet, the T1's Sound like they will be fun to hear. If I get them, I have a Lyr 2 to power them. Please have a good evening.


 
 im in australia so its day here but thanks anyway..


----------



## Mark-sf

nada190 said:


> Have you tried them with a SS amp before? How much does it warm them up?
> 
> I also need my amp to play well with everything not just Beyer's which is why I like the Asgard 2 more.
> 
> ...


 
 If you want a single amp that can work excellently with a full range of headphones, and IEM's the Lyr 2 is the choice. With its gain switch and regulated supplies it is noiseless with everything I have thrown at it from low to high impedance and efficiency.  Plus you can fine tune its character by switching out tubes.  It is a significantly better choice than Vahalla 2 + Magni IMHO.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^+1 Only used the Sony XB4 with the Lyr 2, but it is very sensitive, not a whisper of noise in low gain, and a stupid good combo with my Alpha Dogs!


----------



## LarryKingsShoes

I've had my Magni + Modi rig for about a month now and it's pretty nice. As far as sound goes, it's an awesome value stack. My only real complaint is the volume knob on the Magni feels considerably cheaper than the big honker on my FiiO E09K. Considering they're in the same price range, I went into it expecting similar build quality.
  
 I wish I had gotten the Vali to try instead of the Magni but they were sold as a used pair and the deal was too good to pass up on. All things considered, I think I'm better off this way since I was able to put the money I saved toward getting a pair of HE-400s to replace the pair that I sold several months ago.
  
 I'm happy with it and will continue to use it for my desktop. The FiiO is awesome, too, but I need something to hook up to my phono preamp anyway so I'll just use it for that. I'm a sucker for the matching little stack of Schiit gear so they'll keep their spot on my desk.


----------



## battermoose11

I have a Vali and a modi and couldn't be happier. Seems to work best with Koss dj100w.Also seems to be good with my old Yamaha hp2,I think  they are orthos. I am working my way thru my other  8 headphones to see if any are better. I may make a leap to a pair of visio hp50 in a few months.I am sure the little "SCHIIT" combo will do them justice...


----------



## reddog

grrorr76 said:


> im in australia so its day here but thanks anyway..


What part of Australia are you from sir? I have several friend in your fantastic country, most live in Sydney, and one lives in Tasmania. Also how goes your winter? Please have a good day.


----------



## jexby

battermoose11 said:


> I have a Vali and a modi and couldn't be happier. Seems to work best with Koss dj100w.Also seems to be good with my old Yamaha hp2,I think  they are orthos. I am working my way thru my other  8 headphones to see if any are better. I may make a leap to a pair of visio hp50 in a few months.I am sure the little "SCHIIT" combo will do them justice...




Don't hook up the Vali to HP50, too much background noise due to these sensitive headphone.
Been there, tried it.


----------



## Almost Tactful

Foobar> Bifrost (toslink) > Lyr w/1976 gray shields > Either AKG K712 Pros or Beyer DT770 250 ohms...and I love every waking minute I have with this setup. So solid, clear, and just mind blowingly awesome


----------



## grrorr76

reddog said:


> What part of Australia are you from sir? I have several friend in your fantastic country, most live in Sydney, and one lives in Tasmania. Also how goes your winter? Please have a good day.


 
 I am from Melbourne. Winters all good never gets that cold. It rarely gets below double digits centigrade. I was recently in Tasmania just a stunning place.


----------



## StanD

darober2 said:


> To StanD- here are the words strait from the horses mouths at Schiit.
> 
> So, what the heck is this little thing? Well, it’s either the world’s most expensive and limited USB hub, or it’s the key to eliminating sticky USB audio problems. Simply put, it cleans up your USB connection, eliminating noise and glitches caused by crappy USB power or USB port power management.
> The Cure for Noise and Glitches
> ...


 
  
 If you're expecting sonic improvements, here's something else from the horses' mouths at Schiit about the Wyrd.
*Improves Sound, Color Printing, Data Stability*
Just kidding. This is silly. That’s like saying charging your iPhone off Wyrd makes the battery last longer. But some listeners say Wyrd improves the sound of their system. We’re not going to make any such claims. Nor are we going to recommend it for printers, external USB drives, or iPhone chargers. 
  
 As a further note, many of us expect to hear things and so we do. Read my signature for further clarification.


----------



## jexby

Many of us expect to read things other than your signature.
Give it a rest.


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> Many of us expect to read things other than your signature.
> Give it a rest.


 
 You don't have to read it.


----------



## orthogonous

I want to be one of you soon!


----------



## battermoose11

thanks for the heads up. maybe sehsheiser 598 would be better????


----------



## TeskR

grrorr76 said:


> I am from Melbourne. Winters all good never gets that cold. It rarely gets below double digits centigrade. I was recently in Tasmania just a stunning place.




Unfortunately down here in Tassie its been getting down below double digits all too often >.>


----------



## JoeDoe

orthogonous said:


> I want to be one of you soon!


 
 Interested in purchasing a stack?


----------



## jaywillin

joedoe said:


> Interested in purchasing a stack?


 

 already ??


----------



## Nada190

Got my 2nd piece of Schiit, the Asgard 2. At first I was wondering why everyone was saying it's super hot, 30mins later I found out. 
  
 How do fellow owners of the A2 turn the HOT volume knob? Especially without ruining the good looks.


----------



## Billheiser

Us tough guys just turn the knob.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^ We former Linebackers use our lips !


----------



## Billheiser

Day-um.  We former wrestlers use our -----s.
  
 Edit:  you can also use special audio gloves:
  
 http://www.dogfunk.com/burton-mix-master-glove-mens?CMP_SKU=BUR5712&MER=0406&skid=BUR5712-TRUBK-M&CMP_ID=PLA_GOc003&mv_pc=r101&mr:trackingCode=6A2F6F93-3435-E311-A497-90E2BA285E75&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=c&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=45476772945&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=65220649785&mkwid=sUB3G0Omj_dc%7Cpcrid%7C45476772945&gclid=COLsgMrn0r8CFUYV7AodzCYAiA


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^Ahum......Mr. Heiser, a little decorum please, we former Naval Aviators use our tailhooks..............it's kinda like Pilates .


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^Ahum......Mr. Heiser, a little decorum please, we former Naval Aviators use our tailhooks..............it's kinda like Pilates .


 

 be careful that your tailhook doesn't drag when it isn't supposed to !


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jaywillin said:


> The following can be a very painful proposition, sometimes requiring Doc to break out the big shot  that treats  down below.
> 
> 
> 
> be careful that your tailhook doesn't drag when it isn't supposed to !




Though back to topic, listening to Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, the first, and last album he produced. The Man was a genius, damn that heroin! Compliments of Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2> Alpha Dogs a killer album....give it a listen sometime..


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

we former alaskan fisherman use cages


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> Though back to topic, listening to Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, the first, and last album he produced. The Man was a genius, damn that heroin! Compliments of Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2> Alpha Dogs a killer album....give it a listen sometime..


 

 i listened to "machine gun" just about 10 minutes ago
 now just a few minutes into a  17 minute "the end" by the doors


----------



## Wildcatsare1

jaywillin said:


> i listened to "machine gun" just about 10 minutes ago
> now just a few minutes into a  17 minute "the end" by the doors




Absolutely love "The End" by the Doors! Morrison could definitely pen a twisted poem! The song adds a lot to Apocypse Down, a great fantasy movie..


----------



## jaywillin

wildcatsare1 said:


> Absolutely love "The End" by the Doors! Morrison could definitely pen a twisted poem! The song adds a lot to Apocypse Down, a great fantasy movie..


 

 well jim was the lizard king.....


----------



## kothganesh

wildcatsare1 said:


> Though back to topic, listening to Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, the first, and last album he produced. The Man was a genius, damn that heroin! Compliments of Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2> Alpha Dogs a killer album....give it a listen sometime..




+1. I use Gungnir/Mojo/XC it TH 900 and Hendrix was the best, IMO. His live rendition of Hey Joe oooh!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Always wanted to be Jim Morrison when I grew up, unfortunately, I can't sing and I'm ugly ........


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^Jay, great call on the Door's "The End", haven't listened too it on the new rig, awesome!


----------



## commtrd

My M/G stack works very nicely with the LCD-X. Some may claim the stack too "forward" or aggressive but my experience with the LCD 2.2, LCD 3 and now the LCD X have all been exemplary with this stack. I very much prefer the X out of the three headphones and the M/G just makes those cans sing. Never really understood why some claim the stack is too "forward" or aggressive as they work really nicely with Audeze phones but never tried any others with it so far. With the X I just don't feel any need to try any others as these phones with that stack are just incredible. I did get the upgraded USB module installed in Gungnir and it works really well.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> Though back to topic, listening to Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, the first, and last album he produced. The Man was a genius, damn that heroin! Compliments of Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2> Alpha Dogs a killer album....give it a listen sometime..


 
 Voodoo Chile Slight Return 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 Try Pali Gap from the Rainbow Bridge Album - not video.


----------



## Saraguie

jaywillin said:


> well jim was the lizard king.....


 
 And he could do anything


----------



## NinjaHamster

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^ We former Linebackers use our lips !


 

 Yep. Most linebackers don't like to admit it, but they all seem to love a hot knob between their lips every now and again ...


----------



## jaywillin

ninjahamster said:


> Yep. Most linebackers don't like to admit it, but they all seem to love a hot knob between their lips every now and again ...


 

 now that's funny !! and i'm a former linebacker


----------



## NinjaHamster

jaywillin said:


> now that's funny !! and i'm a former linebacker


 
  
 Thank God you don't want to beat me up then ... !


----------



## CJs06

wildcatsare1 said:


> Though back to topic, listening to Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, the first, and last album he produced. The Man was a genius, damn that heroin! Compliments of Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2> Alpha Dogs a killer album....give it a listen sometime..




Ahhhh my favorite Hendrix album. Sounds damn good on my setup.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

ninjahamster said:


> Yep. Most linebackers don't like to admit it, but they all seem to love a hot knob between their lips every now and again ...




You Aussies are just twisted lot, LOL ! Touché.......think nubin not knob....hehehe


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kothganesh said:


> +1. I use Gungnir/Mojo/XC it TH 900 and Hendrix was the best, IMO. His live rendition of Hey Joe oooh!




Your right on!!!!!! (Sorry couldn't help it)....the whole album is fantastic...I would love to try your Gungnir with my rig!


----------



## UmustBKidn

billheiser said:


> Us tough guys just turn the knob.


 
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^ We former Linebackers use our lips !


 
  
 Several truly twisted thoughts just ran through my head, about turning knobs, how they turn, and who should turn them.
  
 Once again, I value my membership, so I will refrain from describing the above in detail.
  
 Let me just say that I do so enjoy a good knob turning.


----------



## markm1

defiant00 said:


> Honestly, easiest thing is to just try it with the various outputs (if there are multiple) and see which one you like best.
> 
> *Just be careful to turn the Asgard all the way down before you start any music playing!*
> 
> ...


 
 Ditto that.  I nearly blew my ears out switching from my Little Dot to my A-2 comparing the same HP  in different sources. I was going straight from a dedicated CDP and then comparing to listening to the same CD through my stereo system through an integrated amp w/DAC w/ the A-2 connected to see if the difference between the DAC in the CDP and the integrated was significantly different....turn that schiit down and save your ears


----------



## xero404

Schiit stack is complete . So much clicking though! Good thing The alpha dogs block most of it!


----------



## Billheiser

Clicking??


----------



## Rem0o

billheiser said:


> Clicking??


 
 When Bifrost change sample rate, it clicks.


----------



## Billheiser

Hmm, I don't have that issue; i play files of different sampling rates but no click. I dunno why


----------



## jexby

billheiser said:


> Hmm, I don't have that issue; i play files of different sampling rates but no click. I dunno why


 
  
 BiFrost doesn't click for sample rates change when using a USB connection.


----------



## KLJTech

I had read about the clicking before buying my Gungnir USB and I do hear it now and then but it makes me wonder if my listening habits differ that much from other's here. I almost always listen to one album at a time so there's no clicking until I go to another album and that album/CD/file folder was recorded at a different bit-rate and/or sample-rate.
  
 Do most of you simply make several playlists from multiple CD's/folders and that way you hear the clicking more often as it jumps from different source folders/files? The clicks now and then don't bother me at all.


----------



## Rem0o

If you run coax out of your computer like I did for a while, every windows sound, youtube video, music file, software sounds and so on clicks. Pretty bad for a general computing setup. 

 Having the USB card (or a different DAC) is a must then.


----------



## KLJTech

I gotcha, that makes sense.
  
 I used S/PDIF coax out from my PC a couple DAC's ago but never with the Gungnir. Using USB with the Gungnir after listening to music via J.River MC I have to close and reopen the browser to get any sound from YouTube or any other site or other player of any kind. I do see the clicking mentioned fairly often and it does make me wonder if a lot of people prefer to use a playlist from multiple CD's rather than play one album at a time. Maybe its from different websites, internet videos and music like you're saying.


----------



## Billheiser

jexby said:


> BiFrost doesn't click for sample rates change when using a USB connection.



Ok, thanks. It's via USB that I play songs from computer that have different sample rates, so that's good to know. 
My Bifrost would click like crazy when I fast forwarded or rewound my previous CD player (which fed the Bifrost via digital coax). But now with a different CD player, the clicking doesn't happen at all under the same conditions.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

kljtech said:


> I gotcha, that makes sense.
> 
> I used S/PDIF coax out from my PC a couple DAC's ago but never with the Gungnir. Using USB with the Gungnir after listening to music via J.River MC I have to close and reopen the browser to get any sound from YouTube or any other site or other player of any kind. I do see the clicking mentioned fairly often and it does make me wonder if a lot of people prefer to use a playlist from multiple CD's rather than play one album at a time. Maybe its from different websites, internet videos and music like you're saying.


 
  
 That is because of WASAPI or ASIO. Both algorithms dedicate one source (i.e. the media player) for sound, and anything else will be ignored. My personal setup is an optical running to my hifi rig and headphone out from the motherboard to my Grado's, so media player goes to my hifi and everything else goes to my headphones
  
 So what you could do is have 2 outputs, one for your Gungnir and one for mid-fi headphones from the HP out


----------



## Nada190

Anyone know of a optical cable that FOR SURE carry a 24/192 signal? The cheapie I have can only go up to 24/96. Playing a 24/192 doesn't do anything through my Bifrost, plays fine through usb.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

nada190 said:


> Anyone know of a optical cable that FOR SURE carry a 24/192 signal? The cheapie I have can only go up to 24/96. Playing a 24/192 doesn't do anything through my Bifrost, plays fine through usb.


 
  
The monoprice premium cable does


----------



## Rem0o

nada190 said:


> Anyone know of a optical cable that FOR SURE carry a 24/192 signal? The cheapie I have can only go up to 24/96. Playing a 24/192 doesn't do anything through my Bifrost, plays fine through usb.


 
 The problem is most likely your optical output. Most laptops/motherboards can only go up to 96/24.


----------



## Nada190

Thanks, I've decided to use spdif for everything 24/96 and below and reserve usb for 24/192. I like spdif's sound just a touch more.


----------



## 65535

Somethings wrong if you're hearing a difference.


----------



## Nada190

Yeah probably my mind saying its better.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

It's definitely your mind


----------



## madwolfa

rem0o said:


> The problem is most likely your optical output. Most laptops/motherboards can only go up to 96/24.


 
  
 ^^ this.


----------



## StanD

nada190 said:


> Yeah probably my mind saying its better.


 
 As long as you don't hear voices in your head, you're good to go.


----------



## Nada190

There's just something about that red light with spdif I like I guess. 
  
 I'm not hearing any voices in my head but sometimes I think someone is calling me because the audio is so good.


----------



## SymphonicTXN7

nada190 said:


> There's just something about that red light with spdif I like I guess.
> 
> I'm not hearing any voices in my head but sometimes I think someone is calling me because the audio is so good.


 
 I prefer the spdif as well. Having the non-uber USB, to me sounded not as clear as the optical. What I don't like is that the optical input on the Bifrost when receiving the optical end of the cable, seems to lack the proper connect (tough to describe it) as it seems the optical end just rests in the jack itself, rather than snapping in. Just comes down to personal preference. But what I have to keep reminding myself is that any upgrades makes the tiniest of incremental changes. I have ignored the elders and spent money on cables, connectors, gas infused, adamantium, un-obtanium copper this and that, and the result has not been revolutionary. I will say there is a sound difference between a 2 dollar optical cable and a 16 dollar optical cable. I did once again went with the immortal Monster optical cable the sound is the same as the 16 dollar one, but that is about it. Just my $.02.


----------



## kothganesh

symphonictxn7 said:


> I prefer the spdif as well. *Having the non-uber USB, to me sounded not as clear as the optical.* What I don't like is that the optical input on the Bifrost when receiving the optical end of the cable, seems to lack the proper connect (tough to describe it) as it seems the optical end just rests in the jack itself, rather than snapping in. Just comes down to personal preference. But what I have to keep reminding myself is that any upgrades makes the tiniest of incremental changes. I have ignored the elders and spent money on cables, connectors, gas infused, adamantium, un-obtanium copper this and that, and the result has not been revolutionary. I will say there is a sound difference between a 2 dollar optical cable and a 16 dollar optical cable. I did once again went with the immortal Monster optical cable the sound is the same as the 16 dollar one, but that is about it. Just my $.02.


 
 Well, the Uber upgrades really helped in my case. I had the USB to SPDIF bridge but with the USB upgrade, i used a Wireworld USB cable. To me, the sound has improved noticeably such that I ignore the other inputs these days. My $0.02.


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> Well, the Uber upgrades really helped in my case. I had the USB to SPDIF bridge but with the USB upgrade, i used a Wireworld USB cable. To me, the sound has improved noticeably such that I ignore the other inputs these days. My $0.02.


 
 I suspect that the improvement was due to the Bifrost upgrades, not the cable.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> I suspect that the improvement was due to the Bifrost upgrades, not the cable.


 
 Likely. I am attributing it all to the USB implementation on the Bifrost. Last year, Jason told me not to worry too much about cables per se. However a person known to me wanted to sell the cable so I bought it off him.


----------



## roflcopter159

Looking for opinions here: Aune T1 (temporary until I get money for a Bifrost) --> Lyr 2 --> HE400i (I've heard it has a sound signature similar to HE500 I believe) and eventually something better. I already have the T1 and I'm pretty well set on the 400i and then I have about $500 or so left over. I want something that won't need to be changed out down the road when I get a higher end dac and better headphones so I figured the Lyr 2 would be a good fit. Thoughts?


----------



## StanD

roflcopter159 said:


> Looking for opinions here: Aune T1 (temporary until I get money for a Bifrost) --> Lyr 2 --> HE400i (I've heard it has a sound signature similar to HE500 I believe) and eventually something better. I already have the T1 and I'm pretty well set on the 400i and then I have about $500 or so left over. I want something that won't need to be changed out down the road when I get a higher end dac and better headphones so I figured the Lyr 2 would be a good fit. Thoughts?


 
 I'll bet that an Asgard 2 will do an excellent job with the 400i, it works great with my HE-500's. You can put the savings from the Lyr2 cost difference towards your Bifrost.


----------



## roflcopter159

stand said:


> I'll bet that an Asgard 2 will do an excellent job with the 400i, it works great with my HE-500's. You can put the savings from the Lyr2 cost difference towards your Bifrost.




Would the asgard 2 be powerful enough for something further down the road such as a Lcd 2/3/X/whatever? Also, is the Uber analog worth the extra money in the bifrost? Since I'll be using it with both my desktop and my MacBook Air, I'll need the USB input for sure.


----------



## StanD

roflcopter159 said:


> Would the asgard 2 be powerful enough for something further down the road such as a Lcd 2/3/X/whatever? Also, is the Uber analog worth the extra money in the bifrost? Since I'll be using it with both my desktop and my MacBook Air, I'll need the USB input for sure.


 
 Some people swear by the Uber analog upgrade, I'm not sure that if it's only for the benefit of test equipment used for making measurements. In the realm of DACs it wasn't overly expensive, so I went for it + the USB option. You can check the power requirements of the LCD line, I believe that The A2 can handle most of them. The HE-6 will definitely want more juice. The A2 can handle the power requirements of most headphones. Unless you know that you'll be getting one of the few power hungry cans, I'd use the money for something else, perhaps towards the Bifrost.


----------



## Nada190

OMG, it WAS THE CABLE! Playing 24/192 through spdif on my bifrost now! I mean it sounds exactly the same as usb but, optical cables are cooler. Too bad my motherboard can't play 88.2 so usb still useful.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

nada190 said:


> OMG, it WAS THE CABLE! Playing 24/192 through spdif on my bifrost now! I mean it sounds exactly the same as usb but, optical cables are cooler. Too bad my motherboard can't play 88.2 so usb still useful.


 
  
 Either upsample to 24/96 or downsample to 24/48 (neither affects sound)


----------



## 65535

That begs the question do you even have 24/192 files. If you're resampling everything from 44.1 to 192 you're just wasting processor time and adding the potential for improperly resampled data.


----------



## Nada190

65535 said:


> That begs the question do you even have 24/192 files. If you're resampling everything from 44.1 to 192 you're just wasting processor time and adding the potential for improperly resampled data.


 
 Yes, I have quite a lot of 24/192 files, my friend and I spent weeks ripping our vinyls. It really doesn't sound much better than 24/96 and if I'm not paying attention they sound the same to me.


----------



## 65535

If you're doing your own rips and you're not doing any sample rate conversions then by all means stick with it. Storage is cheap and there shouldn't be any issue with it.


----------



## roflcopter159

stand said:


> Some people swear by the Uber analog upgrade, I'm not sure that if it's only for the benefit of test equipment used for making measurements. In the realm of DACs it wasn't overly expensive, so I went for it + the USB option. You can check the power requirements of the LCD line, I believe that The A2 can handle most of them. The HE-6 will definitely want more juice. The A2 can handle the power requirements of most headphones. Unless you know that you'll be getting one of the few power hungry cans, I'd use the money for something else, perhaps towards the Bifrost.


 
 Ok, well then I think I will definitely get the A2 and the 400i then the Bifrost further down the line. Thanks a bunch for your help!


----------



## StanD

roflcopter159 said:


> Ok, well then I think I will definitely get the A2 and the 400i then the Bifrost further down the line. Thanks a bunch for your help!


 
 That's an excellent lineup, you should be very happy with it. You may have to wait for the 400i's. I'd check reviews by the proper lab rats before splunking down the case. There's always the 560's.


----------



## roflcopter159

stand said:


> That's an excellent lineup, you should be very happy with it. You may have to wait for the 400i's. *I'd check reviews by the proper lab rats before splunking down the case*. There's always the 560's.


 
 Huh?
  
 Also, I've actually heard both the 400i and the 560 at a meet and I much preferred the 400i. More musical/fun in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the 560 had an amazing amount of detail but I preferred the 400i's sound. Thankfully they are set for release early August, so only a few more days


----------



## StanD

roflcopter159 said:


> Huh?
> 
> Also, I've actually heard both the 400i and the 560 at a meet and I much preferred the 400i. More musical/fun in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, the 560 had an amazing amount of detail but I preferred the 400i's sound. Thankfully they are set for release early August, so only a few more days


 
 What I meant was to wait for the first customers to suss out the production model.


----------



## fenderf4i

roflcopter159 said:


> Would the asgard 2 be powerful enough for something further down the road such as a Lcd 2/3/X/whatever? Also, is the Uber analog worth the extra money in the bifrost? Since I'll be using it with both my desktop and my MacBook Air, I'll need the USB input for sure.


 
  
  
 As someone that has both the A2 and the Lyr, yes, the A2 is absolutely powerful enough. You will love it.


----------



## roflcopter159

Awesome! Thanks guys, I'll order it sometime this weekend I think


----------



## 65535

The 560's are great they're comfy and they look good. However they have a little bit too much treble for my liking. That's my only issue with them.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

65535 said:


> The 560's are great they're comfy and they look good. However they have a little bit too much treble for my liking. That's my only issue with them.




Do you thnk the Alpha Dogs, "Dog Treats" would be an effective way to tame the hot treble?


----------



## Nada190

Can anyone point me in the direction of a video or something that can help me install the Uber Analog upgrade for the Bifrost? I'm well versed in PC building so it can't be that hard right?


----------



## xero404

nada190 said:


> Can anyone point me in the direction of a video or something that can help me install the Uber Analog upgrade for the Bifrost? I'm well versed in PC building so it can't be that hard right?




There were some photos and posts on the bifrost Uber thread first two pages in the source components section. I'd link it but I'm on mobile right now.


----------



## markm1

I just heard Lyr-2/ Bifrost with some Mr. Speakers at CAF. To me the Lr-2 felt  like an improvement on the A-2 w/ the right kind of tubes.


----------



## Mark-sf

markm1 said:


> I just heard Lyr-2/ Bifrost with some Mr. Speakers at CAF. To me the Lr-2 felt  like an improvement on the A-2 w/ the right kind of tubes.


 
 It definitely is as I heard the same demo and Dan was running stock tubes. It is even better dimensionally with premium tubes as I have been enjoying in mine for the last month.


----------



## kothganesh

markm1 said:


> I just heard Lyr-2/ Bifrost with some Mr. Speakers at CAF. To me the Lr-2 felt  like an improvement on the A-2 w/ the right kind of tubes.


 
 The Lyr responds very well to Amperex tubes. I've got both - Bugle Boys and Orange Globes.


----------



## Pepe Silvia

well im joining the club.. i pulled the trigger on a Bifrost uber/usb2.0 waiting to arrive to Venezuela.. 
 The upgrade is from a Audigy D1 > Uber bifrost
  
 my current setup will be Uber/bifrost > little dot i+ (silvanias gb408a/muses02) > Grado SR225i
  
 im saving money to get a new HP now posible beyers T1 or HE-560 waiting for some reviews between them to decide.
  
 do you guys believe there is a big change between d1 to a bifrost?? even with my 225i??
  
 im very anxious 
  
 PD i have all my music collection on Flac.. most of them 192/24


----------



## Byronb

Welcome to the club!!


----------



## TeskR

pepe silvia said:


> well im joining the club.. i pulled the trigger on a Bifrost uber/usb2.0 waiting to arrive to Venezuela..
> The upgrade is from a Audigy D1 > Uber bifrost
> 
> my current setup will be Uber/bifrost > little dot i+ (silvanias gb408a/muses02) > Grado SR225i
> ...


 

 Let us know what you think when you get it, thinking of making the jump from modi to uberfrost soon.


----------



## FangJoker

I had a modded set of T1 that I recently sold.  It sounded great with my valhalla 2 and bifrost uber w/usb.  Sadly I may part with the schiit stack as I plan to go away from headphones to IEM because of neck issues.  The weight of headphones hurts my neck and makes listening times a lot shorter than when I use my IEMs.  I probably don't even have 200 hours on them yet.  If I get back into schiit I'll get the modi/magni stack.  I'm wondering how much I should ask for them both. I'll have to research the for sale threads.  I'm really bummed out about it.  The valhalla 2 was my first tube amp and the bifrost uber didn't disappoint.  It blew away the asus stx soundcard I was previously using for music out of my computer.  The next computer I will build won't even need a soundcard. I'll just get a usb dac and amp.


----------



## uncola

If you plan on getting back into headphones in the future, you may as well keep your current stack instead of losing money by selling them.  Maybe get some lighter more comfortable headphones.


----------



## StanD

vegasf1 said:


> I had a modded set of T1 that I recently sold.  It sounded great with my valhalla 2 and bifrost uber w/usb.  Sadly I may part with the schiit stack as I plan to go away from headphones to IEM because of neck issues.  The weight of headphones hurts my neck and makes listening times a lot shorter than when I use my IEMs.  I probably don't even have 200 hours on them yet.  If I get back into schiit I'll get the modi/magni stack.  I'm wondering how much I should ask for them both. I'll have to research the for sale threads.  I'm really bummed out about it.  The valhalla 2 was my first tube amp and the bifrost uber didn't disappoint.  It blew away the asus stx soundcard I was previously using for music out of my computer.  The next computer I will build won't even need a soundcard. I'll just get a usb dac and amp.


 
 Depending on the quality of the DAC at your source, you might want to keep the Bifrost and look into a light duty SS Amp for driving IEMs.


----------



## jexby

FWIW, 
  
in testing the Wyrd and reading the manual there is a difference.
Manual says:
"Left Light On, USB power enabled / switch is on."
 
However, with only the AC adapter into Wyrd (no usb cables) and flipping switch, the Right LED comes on.
 
Left LED comes on when I plug in the DAC.
  
  
 Schiit tech support has confirmed there is a typo in the manual, which will be fixed.


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> Depending on the quality of the DAC at your source, you might want to keep the Bifrost and look into a light duty SS Amp for driving IEMs.


 
  
 I agree.  The Bifrost is such a good DAC.


----------



## FangJoker

tuco1965 said:


> I agree.  The Bifrost is such a good DAC.


 
  
  
 I have a RSA Predator that I can use with the computer.  I think it's going to be a keep it all or sell it all situation.  If I were to sell the valhalla 2 only, I'd just get the magdi. I am trying to convince myself to keep them, but I also wanted the space that they are taking up for doing work related tasks too.  I really don't want to buy another desk either.   Maybe I need to pull the trigger on a CIEM to justify keeping it.  Having this stack with a 300 buck IEM seems like overkill and I already have a decent portable amp/dac.  It was fine keeping it when I had the T1 for sure.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

vegasf1 said:


> I had a modded set of T1 that I recently sold.  It sounded great with my valhalla 2 and bifrost uber w/usb.  Sadly I may part with the schiit stack as I plan to go away from headphones to IEM because of neck issues.  The weight of headphones hurts my neck and makes listening times a lot shorter than when I use my IEMs.  I probably don't even have 200 hours on them yet.  If I get back into schiit I'll get the modi/magni stack.  I'm wondering how much I should ask for them both. I'll have to research the for sale threads.  I'm really bummed out about it.  The valhalla 2 was my first tube amp and the bifrost uber didn't disappoint.  It blew away the asus stx soundcard I was previously using for music out of my computer.  The next computer I will build won't even need a soundcard. I'll just get a usb dac and amp.


 
  
 If you have a passive speaker rig then use it as a connection from your computer to the receiver. I might buy a bifrost just for this purpose


----------



## Rossliew

Just got a used Mjolnir and using it to drive a pair of HE-500 and HD600, absolutely lovely! DAC is the humble BIfrost Uber. Single ended inputs and it sounds so good. Wonder if the Gungnir will bring things up several notches?


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Just got a used Mjolnir and using it to drive a pair of HE-500 and HD600, absolutely lovely! DAC is the humble BIfrost Uber. Single ended inputs and it sounds so good. Wonder if the Gungnir will bring things up several notches?


 
 A few notches up definitely. The rest is up to your imagination


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> A few notches up definitely. The rest is up to your imagination


 
 Lol...hope the combo won't be overly aggressive sounding or will it?


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> Lol...hope the combo won't be overly aggressive sounding or will it?



For the HE 500, go to the thread which has the Jergpad mod. Learn to do it. The 500 will be a very very good HP after that. The music will be delightful with the Schiit stack. I don't know about the HD 600.


----------



## Naugrim

I have the Asgard 2 and just ordered the Modi.  I wanted to get the Bifrost - but I didn't because I've spent so much on equipment the last few weeks (bought the Asgard 2, Audeze LCD-XCs and the Mad Dog Pros).  It just hurt my wallet too much to get the Bifrost - and from what I've read many people can't really tell the difference between the two.  
  
 So, I'm looking for confirmation that I did OK...otherwise I might just bite the bullet - but, I mean, there's gotta be limits - right? 
  
 Right? :O)


----------



## Billheiser

oh man you made the biggest mistake.  Quick sell a kidney, get the Uber Bifrost!
  
 (j/k, good call, the Modi is good!)


----------



## Billheiser

Just because the Bifrost is better, and has more inputs, and has future-proof upgradeability, and is a gorgeous size/design match to your Asgard, doesn't mean you should prefer it over the Modi.  Naw, the $200 or so price difference is way too much.  It's not like you just spent about 10x that much anyway...
  
 Is this evil enough?


----------



## Naugrim

billheiser said:


> Just because the Bifrost is better, and has more inputs, and has future-proof upgradeability, and is a gorgeous size/design match to your Asgard, doesn't mean you should prefer it over the Modi.  Naw, the $200 or so price difference is way too much.  It's not like you just spent about 10x that much anyway...
> 
> Is this evil enough?


 
 You know we're all OCD on this site.  And you gotta go and do that.... but I need the USB adapter so its actuallygonna be like $450 vs $100 - which just may be worth the mental illness.


----------



## Billheiser

Ooh, with USB, plus the Uber upgrade, it's closer to $600.  But I fully support you spending your money!


----------



## Naugrim

You're actually making me feel better now.  I gotta save up for the Cavalli Liquid Glass anyway.... should be about..lets see...five years until my wife lets me spend this amount again.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Wait until the dust has settled and your wallet has recovered a bit. Modi is good, but you really want to go for the Bifrost - and you know it.


----------



## KLJTech

Just tell your wife that you were planning on buying the Gungnir Gen 2 USB but then decided to save some money and settled for the Uber Bifrost...then buy her something nice.


----------



## Naugrim

First of all, I see I'm dealing with some highly experienced "negotiators" here.
  
 Second of all, visiting this web site is getting to be an expensive habit.
  
 Third of all, I like where you're going with this. 
  
 Fourth, and last, what is an Uber Upgrade and why do I "need" it?
  
 This is so ridiculous - ya'll need to get a life.


----------



## Billheiser

naugrim said:


> First of all, I see I'm dealing with some highly experienced "negotiators" here.
> 
> Second of all, visiting this web site is getting to be an expensive habit.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, it's ridiculous but a nice distraction from life.  Uber is "
This DAC/Analog upgrade card improves the sonic and measured performance of Bifrost, using a discrete, direct-coupled gain stage from Gungnir. This discrete stage is more sophisticated than the base Bifrost, with a more complex topology, and DC servo to eliminate capacitors in the signal path and to improve on the already impressive performance of the AKM4399 D/A converter."


----------



## KLJTech

With that level of headphone I would go for the Bifrost if you can swing it as you want your source to be a nice as possible. The Uber Analog board upgrade is something you can do later (save some money and install it yourself) if you get the itch to upgrade down the line. The fact that the Biforst is upgradable is reason enough to pay extra for it over the Modi in my opinion...but then opinions vary. The main thing is to put "your" system together the best that you can and then try your best to forget about the gear and simply enjoy your music. 
 Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## Naugrim

kljtech said:


> With that level of headphone


 
  
 This is what I was worried I'd hear.  I don't want to leave anything on the table given that I've purchased such a high end headphone.  I'm sure I'll be uploading pictures of my Bifrost this weekend.


----------



## Billheiser

naugrim said:


> This is what I was worried I'd hear.  I don't want to leave anything on the table given that I've purchased such a high end headphone.  I'm sure I'll be uploading pictures of my Bifrost this weekend.


 
 Alright!  Bring that setup with the LCD-XC's to a meet (or set one up?)


----------



## Naugrim

We met on Saturday right Bill? I'm Yaro the tall, somewhat "rotund" guy that sat by Modular.  Were you the one with the LCD-X's?  Trying to get my names right...and I'll definitely bring what I have to the next meet-up.  It's a lifestyle, man.


----------



## Billheiser

naugrim said:


> We met on Saturday right Bill? I'm Yaro the tall, somewhat "rotund" guy that sat by Modular.  Were you the one with the LCD-X's?  Trying to get my names right...and I'll definitely bring what I have to the next meet-up.  It's a lifestyle, man.


 
 Yes, sure I remember you.  You listened to my Senn HD600's.   I had the DIY plumbing pipe headphone stands.  I don't have LCD's but I enjoyed them in the CanMania room.


----------



## kothganesh

kljtech said:


> Just tell your wife that you were planning on buying the Gungnir Gen 2 USB but then decided to save some money and settled for the Uber Bifrost...then buy her something nice.


 
 Oh come on...he should get the Gungnir, get her something nice....and get a second job to pay for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. We've all done it right guys?


----------



## Zojokkeli

naugrim said:


> Second of all, visiting this web site is getting to be an expensive habit.


 
  
 I know, it's ridiculous. A year ago I had Nuforce uDAC2 and Sennheiser MOE's. I stumbled upon this site and now I have TH-900's on the way, plus recently bought Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber. Not to mention everything I've owned and sold in between.


----------



## Naugrim

billheiser said:


> Yes, sure I remember you.  You listened to my Senn HD600's.   I had the DIY plumbing pipe headphone stands.  I don't have LCD's but I enjoyed them in the CanMania room.


 
 Oh right! You were very nice to a noob like myself.  Thank you for making me feel so welcome.


----------



## Naugrim

zojokkeli said:


> I know, it's ridiculous. A year ago I had Nuforce uDAC2 and Sennheiser MOE's. I stumbled upon this site and now I have TH-900's on the way, plus recently bought Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber. Not to mention everything I've owned and sold in between.


 
 I seriously considered the TH-900's, I love their size...and I might have if I didn't get my LCD-XC's new for $1300.  I'm planted in a leather recliner with a head rest to wear these bad boys.  I would bring the TH-900's to work if I had them...still not sure I made the right choice.  They felt like they had a bit more "Punchy" base - which would work better with some music and not others.  I'm really enjoying them though. My thoght is that eventually when I can get another pair, I'll get a pair of open back Audezes or HiFiMANs and the TH-900's for quiet time at work or home.  
  
  And as for the Bifrost - I already bragged about how I didnt' get it to her - this is gonna be a brutal sell.... are you happy with your purchase?


----------



## Naugrim

kothganesh said:


> Oh come on...he should get the Gungnir, get her something nice....and get a second job to pay for it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Don't think I haven't been thinking about weekend work to support this ... disease.


----------



## Zojokkeli

naugrim said:


> I seriously considered the TH-900's, I love their size...and I might have if I didn't get my LCD-XC's new for $1300.  I'm planted in a leather recliner with a head rest to wear these bad boys.  I would bring the TH-900's to work if I had them...still not sure I made the right choice.  They felt like they had a bit more "Punchy" base - which would work better with some music and not others.  I'm really enjoying them though. My thoght is that eventually when I can get another pair, I'll get a pair of open back Audezes or HiFiMANs and the TH-900's for quiet time at work or home.
> 
> And as for the Bifrost - I already bragged about how I didnt' get it to her - this is gonna be a brutal sell.... are you happy with your purchase?


 
  
 Actually I got the Bifrost in post yesterday, so I haven't had the chance to really try it out yet. Modi sounds fantastic for the money, but when I upgraded to HRT MS II+ there was a noticeable difference in sound quality. I expect to be blown away by Bifrost. And with gear like yours, there's no need to limit yourself with Modi.
 When you eventually get Bifrost, just stack it under Asgard and get Modi out of sight. Your wife won't notice the difference. If she does, just tell her it grew up.


----------



## Naugrim

zojokkeli said:


>


 
  
 ... hmmm... small sample size, but this seems to be the most popular emoticon this evening..I wonder why...


----------



## Naugrim

zojokkeli said:


> Actually I got the Bifrost in post yesterday, so I haven't had the chance to really try it out yet. Modi sounds fantastic for the money, but when I upgraded to HRT MS II+ there was a noticeable difference in sound quality. I expect to be blown away by Bifrost. And with gear like yours, there's no need to limit yourself with Modi.
> When you eventually get Bifrost, just stack it under Asgard and get Modi out of sight. Your wife won't notice the difference. If she does, just tell her it grew up.


 
 If you are blown away, let me know.  I ordered the modi yesterday and will get it tomorrow.  I just don't want to throw all that money and get no appreciable difference.  Also, I'm like an elementary school kid with a Stradivarius.  I'm not sure all of these equipment will be fully appreciated by me as of yet.  In fact, I just ordered a cd drive so I can rip my collection..I've been listening to Spotify up until now. But I'm all about going big if I'm going to go at all... except, it seems, in the case of the mobi..hmm


----------



## Billheiser

Happy w Bifrost? Very! Have had mine for a year or more, and several months since adding the USB and Uber upgrades. Sittin pretty, I'm set!


----------



## StanD

Quote:
 Originally Posted by *Zojokkeli* 


  






naugrim said:


> ... hmmm... small sample size, but this seems to be the most popular emoticon this evening..I wonder why...


 
 Because when we get you to spend all of your money, you can blame it on the devil.


----------



## NzAudezey

Hey Guys,
  
 New here but had the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack running some LCD 2 rev 2's through toxic cables Silver Poisons for just over a year.

 Anyone else running the same?
  
 Would love to hear some impressions of the Gungnir\Mjolnir stack with LCD2's


----------



## Rossliew

I've recently upgraded from a Modi to a Bifrost Uber but to be very honest, my ears cannot really detect substantial sound differences. I can better hear differences in an amp or headphone's sound than a DAC. So..you could be done with the Modi. In fact, i found the Modi to be very, very good for its price and its simple to set up with no extra power cord required.


----------



## kothganesh

nzaudezey said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> New here but had the Gungnir/Mjolnir stack running some LCD 2 rev 2's through toxic cables Silver Poisons for just over a year.
> 
> ...


 
 Did this until 3 months ago or so...Listen, the Gungnir/Mojo stack is a fine combo for the Audez'e cans. I had the 2.2 and the 3 (I thought the 3 was slightly better with the stack). With the 2.2s, the bass was impactful and deep without being boomy, the mids were a tad veiled to my ears and the top end was smooth. The mids became better with the 3. With the G/M stack, its like sitting in the front row to hear the music. So its going to be a tad aggressive but that was fine with me.


----------



## Naugrim

So I just found out that the MacBook Pro supports toslink natively through the 3.5mm audio port.  I ordered the Bifrost for $350 and it will arrive tomorrow.   I'll have the Modi and the Bifrost to jump between - let the games begin!


----------



## Zojokkeli

naugrim said:


> So I just found out that the MacBook Pro supports toslink natively through the 3.5mm audio port.  I ordered the Bifrost for $350 and it will arrive tomorrow.   I'll have the Modi and the Bifrost to jump between - let the games begin!


 
  
 Well that didn't take long.


----------



## KLJTech

Do you lose the ability for asynchronous data transfer when using Toslink? I've never used it so I honestly don't know.


----------



## Naugrim

kljtech said:


> Do you lose the ability for asynchronous data transfer when using Toslink? I've never used it so I honestly don't know.


 
 What does that mean and why would it matter?


----------



## Naugrim

zojokkeli said:


> Well that didn't take long.


 
 Heh, well, I don't deal well with tension.


----------



## KLJTech

naugrim said:


> What does that mean and why would it matter?


 
  
 Out of the office for lunch, here's a good read on the subject: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html
  
 Very basically, asynchronous data transfer means that your DAC's clock controls the timing of the data rather than the PC/Laptop controlling it. I know that Schiit has done a great job with their Asynchronous USB...I honestly don't know if you lose anything with regards to the DAC controlling the computer when you use Toslink or not.
  
 Congratulations on your Biforst and I hope that it works out great for you.


----------



## Zojokkeli

naugrim said:


> Heh, well, I don't deal well with tension.


 
  
 I've been going through my stuff with Bifrost for a couple of hours now, and I'm happy to inform that this one's a keeper. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Defiant00

kljtech said:


> Out of the office for lunch, here's a good read on the subject: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html
> 
> Very basically, asynchronous data transfer means that your DAC's clock controls the timing of the data rather than the PC/Laptop controlling it. I know that Schiit has done a great job with their Asynchronous USB...I honestly don't know if you lose anything with regards to the DAC controlling the computer when you use Toslink or not.
> 
> Congratulations on your Biforst and I hope that it works out great for you.


 
  
 That's only for USB though, which he isn't going to be using with Bifrost.


----------



## jchandler3

naugrim said:


> What does that mean and why would it matter?


 
  
 I wouldn't worry about it. From what I understand about this stuff (which isn't much), optical is more likely to have jitter issues, USB is more likely to have noise issues. But Schiit has done a great job with their DACs and I don't think you'll have any issues. 
  
 The only known downside I've discovered with optical/Mac is that Mac can't output 192/24 via toslink. I don't submit to the "HD" stuff so its not an issue for me (I run my output at 44.1/16). May or may not be an issue for you.


----------



## Naugrim

jchandler3 said:


> I wouldn't worry about it. From what I understand about this stuff (which isn't much), optical is more likely to have jitter issues, USB is more likely to have noise issues. But Schiit has done a great job with their DACs and I don't think you'll have any issues.
> 
> The only known downside I've discovered with optical/Mac is that Mac can't output 192/24 via toslink. I don't submit to the "HD" stuff so its not an issue for me (I run my output at 44.1/16). May or may not be an issue for you.


 
 Well, I can always upgrade components if I find that I can't live without it.  That's kind of a bummer though.  With my new LDC-XC's I certainly can tell the difference between an mp3, higher quality Spotify stream and a lossless file.  Baby steps. :0)


----------



## jchandler3

naugrim said:


> Well, I can always upgrade components if I find that I can't live without it.  That's kind of a bummer though.  With my new LDC-XC's I certainly can tell the difference between an mp3, higher quality Spotify stream and a lossless file.  Baby steps. :0)




Oh no doubt hearing a difference. I ONLY listen to lossless files. But I don't hear a difference between 44.1/16 and 192/24, and I doubt you would either. Nasty lossy MP3s are a very different story.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

So what do you guys think of Vali Vs Asgard?


----------



## ab initio

fuzziekiwi said:


> So what do you guys think of Vali Vs Asgard?


 

 I think it would be a close game with Vali jumping out to an early lead but Asgard making a second half surge. But in the end, I think Ditka wins in a blowout by 50.
  
 Cheers


----------



## StanD

fuzziekiwi said:


> So what do you guys think of Vali Vs Asgard?


 
 I've got both and prefer the Asgard 2 for the below reasons.

More power. I have an HE-500, etc, etc, etc.
Less noise
Gain switch (Hi, Lo)
No Microphonics (not too big of a deal anyway).
Warms my house better in the winter


----------



## Naugrim

I got the Modi last night and the Bifrost was delivered today.  The Modi was certainly a noticeable upgrade from the $30 DAC I had had before, looking forward to A/B testing tonight.


----------



## Tuco1965

naugrim said:


> I got the Modi last night and the Bifrost was delivered today.  The Modi was certainly a noticeable upgrade from the $30 DAC I had had before, looking forward to A/B testing tonight.


 
 Have fun with both.  I have them and will not be getting rid of them.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

Ordered Asgard 2 and Modi. Excited to get them.


----------



## Naugrim

fuzziekiwi said:


> Ordered Asgard 2 and Modi. Excited to get them.


 
 Right on!  What did you have before?


----------



## 45longcolt

Probably shouldn't tell you that I was hugely pleased with Bifrost until I got the Gungnir. Bifrost went up for sale the next day.
  
 "Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet."
  
 Somebody should put that on a t-shirt...


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

naugrim said:


> fuzziekiwi said:
> 
> 
> > Ordered Asgard 2 and Modi. Excited to get them.
> ...


 
 I just used my Xonar DG, now I use my receiver with my HD650's.


----------



## Naugrim

45longcolt said:


> Probably shouldn't tell you that I was hugely pleased with Bifrost until I got the Gungnir. Bifrost went up for sale the next day.
> 
> "Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet."
> 
> Somebody should put that on a t-shirt...


 
 Can you just stop...just found myself parousing the Schiit website again.


----------



## StanD

naugrim said:


> Can you just stop...just found myself parousing the Schiit website again.


 
 What kinda Schiit is your wallet looking at?


----------



## Naugrim

stand said:


> What kinda Schiit is your wallet looking at?


 
 All kinds of Schiit  - but I'm done... *drops mic*


----------



## Billheiser

naugrim said:


> All kinds of Schiit  - but I'm done... *drops mic*



Good. Settle in with all your great new stuff and enjoy.


----------



## Naugrim

45longcolt said:


> Probably shouldn't tell you that I was hugely pleased with Bifrost until I got the Gungnir. Bifrost went up for sale the next day.
> 
> "Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet."
> 
> Somebody should put that on a t-shirt...


 
 Also, if I get all the best Schiit right off - they'll be nowhere to go.  But seriously, how much of a difference did it make?  The only problem I'm having right now is on the song "Skyfall" by Adele - there is a harshness to some of the really high notes at the end of the song - and I can't help but feel that shouldn't be the case.  Only listened with the Asgard2/Modi/LCD-CX, I'll try the Bifrost tonight.  And no, I didn't get the Uber.


----------



## Billheiser

The harshness is probably in the recording. Your equipment is excellent and also very resolving, so...


----------



## Naugrim

billheiser said:


> The harshness is probably in the recording. Your equipment is excellent and also very resolving, so...


 
 I downloaded it from HD Tracks.  I guess I'll have to rip one myself. Garage sales here I come!


----------



## Billheiser

naugrim said:


> I downloaded it from HD Tracks.  I guess I'll have to rip one myself. Garage sales here I come!


I've got some HDTracks tracks that are harsh. It depends on the original recording, the mastering, the remastering, etc. 
e.g., the Smiths "complete" from hdtracks in 24/96 does not sound that great. It's got some edge and harshness. The original cd's & lp's sound better to me. 
For contrast, the hdtracks 24/192 of Traffic's "john barleycorn" sounds super.


----------



## sub50hz

ab initio said:


> I think Ditka wins in a blowout by 50.


 
  
 50? Don't sell Ditka short, now.
  
 On-topic, though -- I just got my own office and I'm thinking of relocating my Vali/Modi there, and moving up to Bifrost/Lyr 2 at home. It seems like the logical "step-up" from the former, though I am quite interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with LyrFrost.
  
 Ruin my wallet. Go.


----------



## Billheiser

sub50hz said:


> 50? Don't sell Ditka short, now.
> 
> On-topic, though -- I just got my own office and I'm thinking of relocating my Vali/Modi there, and moving up to Bifrost/Lyr 2 at home. It seems like the logical "step-up" from the former, though I am quite interested in hearing from anyone who has experience with LyrFrost.
> 
> Ruin my wallet. Go.



Yes, that is the logical upgrade, and an actual one too. And it's worth it. especially since I'm free to tell OTHER people how to spend $.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^2nd on Mr Heiser, the Lyr 2 is a phenomenal amp, dead quiet in low (and high as far as my experience goes), and a powerhouse in high. It is driving my Alpha Dogs, HD650's, PSB M4U1's and SONY XBA-4 IEM's very well. I am also going to add a Bitfrost, presently I have a Wyrd/Modi combination that is also very good!


----------



## Naugrim

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^2nd on Mr Heiser, the Lyr 2 is a phenomenal amp, dead quiet in low (and high as far as my experience goes), and a powerhouse in high. It is driving my Alpha Dogs, HD650's, PSB M4U1's and SONY XBA-4 IEM's very well. I am also going to add a Bitfrost, presently I have a Wyrd/Modi combination that is also very good!


 
 I'm the last one to correct someone else's spelling - but I thought it was Bitfrost too - but it's actaully Bifrost, no "t".


----------



## Tuco1965

naugrim said:


> I'm the last one to correct someone else's spelling - but I thought it was Bitfrost too - but it's actaully Bifrost, no "t".


 
 I like to call mine Uberfrost.


----------



## superjawes

naugrim said:


> Also, if I get all the best Schiit right off - they'll be nowhere to go.



Oh don't worry. You have plenty of time to wait for Ragnarok XD


----------



## Zojokkeli

I think my wallet can recover for some time now, as I have no interest in tubes and would like to stay in Bifrost/Asgard form factor. Another solid state amp in the same size would be tempting though.


----------



## reddog

superjawes said:


> Oh don't worry. You have plenty of time to wait for Ragnarok XD


yes my wallet quakes in fear of the day the Ragnarok is let loose upon us humble audiophiles. However now I am saving up for a good dac like the uber bifrost or the Gungnir. Hope everyone has a great time listening to their rigs.


----------



## Naugrim

So I just listened to the my Asgard 2/Bifrost/LCD-XC combo for the first time.  
  
 1. They fixed the harshness problem I was having with Skyfall (HD download) - or at least alleviated it.
 2. The soundstage just totally opened up.  I think.  LOL - haven't gone back to the Modi yet.


----------



## Naugrim

naugrim said:


> So I just listened to the my Asgard 2/Bifrost/LCD-XC combo for the first time.
> 
> 1. They fixed the harshness problem I was having with Skyfall (HD download) - or at least alleviated it.
> 2. The soundstage just totally opened up.  I think.  LOL - haven't gone back to the Modi yet.


 
 OK Ya, the soundstage is incredible.  My heart is actually beating faster - lol.  Schiit is the... well you know.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

Can anyone post pictures of how they plugged their schiit into their computer? I'm a visual person, I think I bought the right cables.

 I got a USB cable for my DAC and then one RCA to 3.5mm like their website says.


----------



## kinger2005

fuzziekiwi said:


> Can anyone post pictures of how they plugged their schiit into their computer? I'm a visual person, I think I bought the right cables.
> 
> I got a USB cable for my DAC and then one RCA to 3.5mm like their website says.


----------



## Naugrim

kinger2005 said:


>



I think you wanted RCA to RCA


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

I found a bunch of RCA cables in the garage that my father never uses.. score. 
  
 Thanks for the picture.


----------



## sandab

fuzziekiwi said:


> Can anyone post pictures of how they plugged their schiit into their computer? I'm a visual person, I think I bought the right cables.
> 
> I got a USB cable for my DAC and then one RCA to 3.5mm like their website says.


 
 USB from the computer to where it says "in" on the back of the Bifrost.  The USB cable for the Bifrost is known as A/B type.  Otherwise use 'mini' or 'micro' connectors... Depends on the DAC.
  
 Then, RCA out from the DAC to RCA in on the preamp or headphone amp.  Red to red and white to white.
  
 A 3.5mm-to-RCA cable would only be used if you either use a DAC with a 3.5mm output and no RCA connectors, or if you don't have a DAC and want to connect a headphone output on the computer to a preamp/amp.
  
 A picture, for what it's worth...
  
http://www.rockgarden.net/download/connected.jpeg


----------



## Themorganlett85

I have a really sneaky suspicion that I'm about to bite the proverbial bullet and finally take the plunge and order the Valhalla 2, Uber Bifrost and some Sennheiser Hd-650s. I finally got my new desktop built and now I need some much needed audiophile upgrades.


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> I have a really sneaky suspicion that I'm about to bite the proverbial bullet and finally take the plunge and order the Valhalla 2, Uber Bifrost and some Sennheiser Hd-650s. I finally got my new desktop built and now I need some much needed audiophile upgrades.



Perfect. Do it.


----------



## sandab

wberghofer said:


> Mind if I join? There are two Bifrost DACs, two Valhallas and one Lyr in my home. I’m very happy with this equipment!


 
 How do you like the Valhalla + T1 combo?  I'm considering a set of T1s to go with the Valhalla 2.


----------



## wberghofer

sandab said:


> How do you like the Valhalla + T1 combo?  I'm considering a set of T1s to go with the Valhalla 2.




Very good, I’m quite happy with this combination. In my opinion the Valhalla sounds even a little better than the Lyr, although the Lyr is more powerful and more expensive. Please note that I’m talking about *first generation* Valhalla and Lyr amps; don’t have any experience with the second incarnation of these amps.

Werner.


----------



## utee05

What dac are you using with your T1? I have a modi but recently got the lyr version 1 that I should be getting in a couple of days to use instead of the magni. I am thinking of sticking with this setup for now. Though all of this talk of bifrost is tempting me.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

wberghofer said:


> Very good, I’m quite happy with this combination. In my opinion the Valhalla sounds even a little better than the Lyr, although the Lyr is more powerful and more expensive. Please note that I’m talking about *first generation* Valhalla and Lyr amps; don’t have any experience with the second incarnation of these amps.
> 
> Werner.




Actually the Valhalla 2 has slightly more power into 300 ohm + loads than the Lyr 2. I had both, though just the Lyr 2 now due to a switch to "orthodynamic" HPs, Alpha Dog/ HE560.


----------



## kothganesh

45longcolt said:


> Probably shouldn't tell you that I was hugely pleased with Bifrost until I got the Gungnir. Bifrost went up for sale the next day.
> 
> "Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet."
> 
> Somebody should put that on a t-shirt...



And that is generally the experience. If you are looking at the Bifrost Uber, it makes sense either to spend some more or save up for the Gungnir, to me anyway. Of course there could be other considerations as well.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^^^ the debate I am having presently, my thought is to save up for the Gungnir, while keeping my eyes on the F/S threads for a great deal on either the Bifrost (finally spelling it correctly) or Gungnir.


----------



## jchandler3

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^^^ the debate I am having presently, my thought is to save up for the Gungnir, while keeping my eyes on the F/S threads for a great deal on either the Bifrost (finally spelling it correctly) or Gungnir.


 
  
 FWIW, I was in that debate as well, but decided to go with the Gungnir. It's not *that* much more than the Uberfrost, in the grand scheme of things, and it preps me for a balanced amp in the future (a la Ragnarok). I haven't heard the Uberfrost but the Gungnir is—by far—the best DAC I've ever heard. 
  
 Just thought you might like a little nudge


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^there you go again.......the Gungnir, she is a beauty, and would compliment the Ragnorak.......my youngest Daughter really doesn't need to go to college, she might actually enjoy the Marines, hmmmm, let me think a bit more....


----------



## Nada190

Someone convince me to buy the uber analog upgrade for my Bifrost. I currently can't decide whether it will make any noticeable improvement. 
  
 Currently using Bifrost + A2.
  
 Headphones: AKG K240, ATH-PRO700MK2
  
 Future Headphones: AKG K712, Grado RS1e or RS2e
  
 Think I will notice a difference? 
  
Man, my wallet got shot and [size=8.181818008422852px]run over[/size] a few times since I started visiting here.


----------



## kothganesh

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^there you go again.......the Gungnir, she is a beauty, and would compliment the Ragnorak.......my youngest Daughter really doesn't need to go to college, she might actually enjoy the Marines, hmmmm, let me think a bit more....


 
 No time like the present
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Plus you might always win the Lotto (or its equivalent in KY).


----------



## kothganesh

nada190 said:


> Someone convince me to buy the uber analog upgrade for my Bifrost. I currently can't decide whether it will make any noticeable improvement.
> 
> Currently using Bifrost + A2.
> 
> ...


 
 You will notice the difference. I had the regular Bifrost with USB. Then the analog upgrade came along and the SQ did improve to a noticeable extent (for me). Sound became deeper (more 3D) and improvement in bass extension.


----------



## reddog

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^there you go again.......the Gungnir, she is a beauty, and would compliment the Ragnorak.......my youngest Daughter really doesn't need to go to college, she might actually enjoy the Marines, hmmmm, let me think a bit more....



You could also sell a kidney and skip the Gungnir and get the Yggdrasil dac to g o with the Ragnarok lol.


----------



## jcwyly

Where do I vote to have the topic title changed to "Schiit heads unite" 
 
I miiiiight be going for a Valhalla 2 / BIfrost combo soon, so I may become a Schiit head too!


----------



## Rossliew

I now have the Mjolnir, Bifrost Uber, Magni, Vali and Modi (and previously owned the Asgard 2, Valhalla and Lyr). What the Schiit else do I need?...maybe a Gungnir to complete the circle..


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> I now have the Mjolnir, Bifrost Uber, Magni, Vali and Modi (and previously owned the Asgard 2, Valhalla and Lyr). What the Schiit else do I need?...maybe a Gungnir to complete the circle..


 
 I like it when a man has his own answer posed as a query


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> I like it when a man has his own answer posed as a query


----------



## utee05

rossliew said:


> I now have the Mjolnir, Bifrost Uber, Magni, Vali and Modi (and previously owned the Asgard 2, Valhalla and Lyr). What the Schiit else do I need?...maybe a Gungnir to complete the circle..




Any reason why you did not keep the lyr? Was it not much of a difference compared to vali?


----------



## StanD

jcwyly said:


> Where do I vote to have the topic title changed to "Schiit heads unite"
> 
> I miiiiight be going for a Valhalla 2 / BIfrost 2 combo soon, so I may become a Schiit head too!


 
 BIfrost 2? Tell us about it.


----------



## Pepe Silvia

bifrost 2?? but i just bought the uberfrost... :s i even dont have it yet is coming..


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rossliew said:


> I now have the Mjolnir, Bifrost Uber, Magni, Vali and Modi (and previously owned the Asgard 2, Valhalla and Lyr). What the Schiit else do I need?...maybe a Gungnir to complete the circle..




Then you could have the Wagnerian Schiit Cycle ........Reddog, where can I sell that kidney, what's the going rate?


----------



## Rossliew

utee05 said:


> Any reason why you did not keep the lyr? Was it not much of a difference compared to vali?


 
 Somehow i found it not as powerful as I expected but then i didn't have planers to drive them with, only my humble HD600. For the money, the Vali is immense in its capabilities!


----------



## jcwyly

stand said:


> BIfrost 2? Tell us about it.




Sorry that's just a typo lol didn't mean to freak everyone out.

One thing I noticed is I can't find any real comparisons between the Valhalla vs Valhalla 2. Is the 2 worth the extra dough? I can find used gen 1 for under 250 but since the 2 is new I'd probably just buy it straight from schiit


----------



## superjawes

Valhalla 2 got a gain switch and higher current capacity to make it more capable with various headphones. The original really does well with higher impedance headphones and not so great on other models. In fact, here's the FAQ blurb:



			
				Schiit said:
			
		

> _Wait, wait, wait. Grados? IEMs? ORTHOS? With a tube OTL amp? Are you nuts?_
> 
> No, not completely. With the low output impedance and higher current capability of Valhalla 2, you might be surprised what headphones you can run with it. Now, that isn’t to say that it’s going to be able to drive HE-400s or LCD-Xs with the authority of, well, anything else we make. But it won’t fall on its face and lay there twitching like Valhalla did.




I'd say that if you're sticking to headphones that Valhalla drives well, then the original is a fine amp to have (I pair mine with HD 600's). If you have a few different headphones with different impedance and gain requirements, get the 2 for the versatility.


----------



## Billheiser

superjawes said:


> Valhalla 2 got a gain switch and higher current capacity to make it more capable with various headphones. The original really does well with higher impedance headphones and not so great on other models. In fact, here's the FAQ blurb:
> I'd say that if you're sticking to headphones that Valhalla drives well, then the original is a fine amp to have (I pair mine with HD 600's). If you have a few different headphones with different impedance and gain requirements, get the 2 for the versatility.




Correct. Also, the Valhalla 2 has variable preamp outs, so you can drive an amplifier or powered speakers when you unplug the headphones.


----------



## jcwyly

superjawes said:


> Valhalla 2 got a gain switch and higher current capacity to make it more capable with various headphones. The original really does well with higher impedance headphones and not so great on other models. In fact, here's the FAQ blurb:
> I'd say that if you're sticking to headphones that Valhalla drives well, then the original is a fine amp to have (I pair mine with HD 600's). If you have a few different headphones with different impedance and gain requirements, get the 2 for the versatility.


 
 Ok thanks for the clarification. I'll mostly be using it with my Beyer T1s but I would like the option to be able to test my IEMs on my desktop setup for comparison/review purposes, sounds like the gen 2 is the way to go for me.


----------



## Billheiser

kothganesh said:


> You will notice the difference. I had the regular Bifrost with USB. Then the analog upgrade came along and the SQ did improve to a noticeable extent (for me). Sound became deeper (more 3D) and improvement in bass extension.



I don't disagree, but the difference is not dramatic. I was happy with the sound before the Uber upgrade, and happy after. Since the upgrade service + shipping took about 2 weeks, I obviously was not listening to my unit side-by-side with itself. I think the sound now is a tiny bit more natural. Am glad to have it.


----------



## jeremy205100

If I hook a pair of powered speakers up to the outputs of my Asgard 2, how exactly does it work? Does the Asgard 2 amplify the signal at all or just pass it through? Does the volume knob adjust the signal? Should I leave it on maximum if it does?


----------



## Naugrim

jeremy205100 said:


> If I hook a pair of powered speakers up to the outputs of my Asgard 2, how exactly does it work? Does the Asgard 2 amplify the signal at all or just pass it through? Does the volume knob adjust the signal? Should I leave it on maximum if it does?


 
 I don't have advice, other than what I know because I'm doing just that.  
  
 I have a pair of JBL SLR350's (Powered monitors) and I hook them to the RCA outs on the back of the Asgard 2.  It's just a pre-amp connection so all it does is pass it through (no amplification).  However, it benefits from the Bifrost DAC which i have running into the Asgard 2 via RCA and the volume knob controls the volume on the speakers as well as my headphones (LCD-XC's), but will only run the speakers if the headphones aren't plugged in (it's automatic).  I leave the speakers at about 75% because I can hear them if they are up much higher..in fact I think I may drop them down to 50 - 60% as I can actually hear them right now and it's annoying me.  I doubt you'll need your speakers to go much louder than that - but I'm not you so I'll let you decide.
  
 Hope that answers your questions!  I have no clue if I'm doing it "right" of course, but so far it works for me.


----------



## Naugrim




----------



## markm1

naugrim said:


> I don't have advice, other than what I know because I'm doing just that.
> 
> I have a pair of JBL SLR350's (Powered monitors) and I hook them to the RCA outs on the back of the Asgard 2.  It's just a pre-amp connection so all it does is pass it through (no amplification).  However, it benefits from the Bifrost DAC which i have running into the Asgard 2 via RCA and the volume knob controls the volume on the speakers as well as my headphones (LCD-XC's), but will only run the speakers if the headphones aren't plugged in (it's automatic).  I leave the speakers at about 75% because I can hear them if they are up much higher..in fact I think I may drop them down to 50 - 60% as I can actually hear them right now and it's annoying me.  I doubt you'll need your speakers to go much louder than that - but I'm not you so I'll let you decide.
> 
> Hope that answers your questions!  I have no clue if I'm doing it "right" of course, but so far it works for me.


 

 I've been wondering how the Audeze sounds with the Asgard-2 relative to the more spendy usual suspect you see commonly paired with  Audeze. Thinking about adding a LCD-2 to my RS1i to round out my sound sigs.
  
 Someone posted something about wanting an RS1i. I paired my Grados with the A-2 for about two years and finally decided to try something with tubes-Little Dot 1+ hybrid. Very inexpensive entry. Never having heard anything other than the A-2 except for a couple of meets, I was perfectly satisfied and still think it's totally fine. But, now I'm hearing differences w/ my RS1i and I do think the brighter tendencies of Grados probably sound better with smoother sounding tubes to soften some of the highs....FWIW....I'll bet the Vali sounds nice w/ Grados as well for a small financial commitment to test the tube waters so to speak.


----------



## Naugrim

markm1 said:


> I've been wondering how the Audeze sounds with the Asgard-2 relative to the more spendy usual suspect you see commonly paired with  Audeze. Thinking about adding a LCD-2 to my RS1i to round out my sound sigs.


 
  
 From what people tell me, the Audeze LCD-2 is "bassier" and darker than the X and XC - so I don't know if I can advise as to how well that will work. 
  
 I couldn't afford any more than I paid, but I can tell you that while I was on the  Asgard 2 and I upgraded from the Modi to the Bifrost DAC it made a HUGE difference - particularly to soundstage and what I call "smoothness" (it mellowed out some harsh recordings).


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Once the phono stage is released I'll get that and the modi for my speaker rig along with an integrated amp (non schiit) to replace this busy 7.1 receiver.


----------



## Billheiser

jeremy205100 said:


>


 


jeremy205100 said:


> If I hook a pair of powered speakers up to the outputs of my Asgard 2, how exactly does it work? Does the Asgard 2 amplify the signal at all or just pass it through? Does the volume knob adjust the signal? Should I leave it on maximum if it does?


 
  
  


naugrim said:


> I don't have advice, other than what I know because I'm doing just that.
> 
> I have a pair of JBL SLR350's (Powered monitors) and I hook them to the RCA outs on the back of the Asgard 2.  It's just a pre-amp connection so all it does is pass it through (no amplification).  However, it benefits from the Bifrost DAC which i have running into the Asgard 2 via RCA and the volume knob controls the volume on the speakers as well as my headphones (LCD-XC's), but will only run the speakers if the headphones aren't plugged in (it's automatic).  I leave the speakers at about 75% because I can hear them if they are up much higher..in fact I think I may drop them down to 50 - 60% as I can actually hear them right now and it's annoying me.  I doubt you'll need your speakers to go much louder than that - but I'm not you so I'll let you decide.
> 
> Hope that answers your questions!  I have no clue if I'm doing it "right" of course, but so far it works for me.


 
 That is correct, hook up powered speakers to the RCA outs on the Asgard 2.  There is amplification (pre amplification) so it's more than just a pass through, but above is the correct way to hook it up. When you plug in headphones, the output to the speakers is muted.  Remove headphones and it's a preamp again to your powered speakers.
 Yes, the volume knob controls the volume.  So DON'T leave it at maximum.  It's a high quality volume control so make it your primary volume control.  Leave your digital source volume at maximum.  Leave your powered speakers at a volume setting where the Asgard 2 gives them a full range of volume, from silent to loud.  Depending on your speakers, then, their volume control may typically rest anywhere between 30% to 80% of it's rotation.


----------



## jeremy205100

Thanks everyone! I'm just getting junky monitors for like $40 on Amazon, so it's not going to be audiophile. But I need something non-headphone to entertain people coming into my room. Hopefully the sound isn't horrid.


----------



## Naugrim

jeremy205100 said:


> Thanks everyone! I'm just getting junky monitors for like $40 on Amazon, so it's not going to be audiophile. But I need something non-headphone to entertain people coming into my room. Hopefully the sound isn't horrid.


 
 I cannot recommend any higher the JBL LSR305's.  For $260 you're not going to know whether to wear your headphones or listen to your speakers..they're that good. Every time I play them, I say, out loud, "I'm glad I got these," to my wife, who just agrees.  
  
 Good luck!


----------



## jeremy205100

I already have a pair of KEF speakers for hifi. These are just going to be for when I'm at my desk with others and can't use headphones. I am likely getting these, not to hijack this threat. 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Genius-Hi-Fi-Speaker-Computers-SP-HF500A/dp/B0041QBAIA/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8&colid=2MS0A83FJHGO2&coliid=IP71OHGKD5901
  
 I already have a really nice pair of big speakers so I am sticking to the bare minimum for this. 
  
 EDIT: And just so no one has a heart attack, no I am not touching the headphone outs on those speakers because it's probably junk.


----------



## Saraguie

naugrim said:


> I cannot recommend any higher the JBL LSR305's.  For $260 you're not going to know whether to wear your headphones or listen to your speakers..they're that good. Every time I play them, I say, out loud, "I'm glad I got these," to my wife, who just agrees.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 Are these the same? Different ASINs but they look the same but do not have quite the same description.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Two-Way-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00HNKLN2Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1407124786&sr=1-2&keywords=jbl+lsr305
  
 http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Professional-Studio-Monitors/dp/B00F1DEI8G/ref=sr_1_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1407124786&sr=1-3&keywords=jbl+lsr305


----------



## Naugrim

saraguie said:


> Are these the same? Different ASINs but they look the same but do not have quite the same description.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Two-Way-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00HNKLN2Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1407124786&sr=1-2&keywords=jbl+lsr305
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LSR305-Professional-Studio-Monitors/dp/B00F1DEI8G/ref=sr_1_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1407124786&sr=1-3&keywords=jbl+lsr305


 
 Yes, they're all the same.


----------



## utee05

Well I just got my Lyr to go with my T1 and boy do they sound good together. At the moment I am using the Modi as my dac till I get the itch to upgrade to bifrost. 
  
 Now my Magni and HE-400 will be sitting on the bench for a while.


----------



## gmahler2u

It's good to see many Schiit lovers!!  I'm one of you!  LOL


----------



## uncola

Schiit lovers! Is that the official term? I sold my mjolnir but will definitely reenter the world of Schiit one day. Just wanted to try new gear.


----------



## gmahler2u

Schiit gears are the BOMB!!  I have Lyr, I'm hook on Tube rolling now....It's bitchin gears!!!


----------



## Billheiser

gmahler2u said:


> Schiit gears are the BOMB!!  I have Lyr, I'm hook on Tube rolling now....It's bitchin gears!!!


 
 Spoken just as the original Gustav Mahler would have phrased it.  Sehr gut!


----------



## gmahler2u

Lyr - Bifrost (Uber) - Sony dvd player - HD800.  Perfect Mahler Symphonies!


----------



## madwolfa

- 

   8/07/2014  -  Thursday
6:35 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery
  LENEXA, KS

  
 Audeze LCD-2 is coming! Can't wait to hear it with my schiit!


----------



## gmahler2u

madwolfa said:


> -
> 
> 8/07/2014  -  Thursday
> 6:35 am On FedEx vehicle for delivery
> ...


 
 madwolfa, you're KC!! WOW I'm in lawrence KC!
  
 WOW!!


----------



## madwolfa

gmahler2u said:


> madwolfa, you're KC!! WOW I'm in lawrence KC!


 
  
 Awesome, I love Lawrence! Glad I'm not the only Head-Fier in the area.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

utee05 said:


> Well I just got my Lyr to go with my T1 and boy do they sound good together. At the moment I am using the Modi as my dac till I get the itch to upgrade to bifrost.
> 
> Now my Magni and HE-400 will be sitting on the bench for a while.




If you want to take one more step before the Bifrost, the Wyrd is a great addition to the Modi. IMO, and Purrin also have the combo a great review, greater dimensionality, tone, and a deep, black, silent background. I too want to move up to a Bifrost/Gungnir, but I am really enjoying the Wyrd, Modi. Lyr 2, Alpha Dog/HE560 right now.


----------



## gmahler2u

gmahler2u said:


> madwolfa, you're KC!! WOW I'm in lawrence KC!
> 
> WOW!!


 
 Hey Mad Cool...you know I'm trying headfi meet in Lawrence (9/13/14)  if you're interested you're welcome to join us.
 bring your Schiit too... 
  
 Cheers


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

My schiit will be here in a few hours!


----------



## gmahler2u

fuzziekiwi said:


> My schiit will be here in a few hours!


 
 Congrates on your Schiit!!  
  
 What Schiit you're gettting?


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

gmahler2u said:


> fuzziekiwi said:
> 
> 
> > My schiit will be here in a few hours!
> ...


 
 Got my Schiit, Asgard 2 & Modi. Underwhelmed so far. Things sound the same so far.


----------



## madwolfa

fuzziekiwi said:


> Got my Schiit, Asgard 2 & Modi. Underwhelmed so far. Things sound the same so far.


 
  
 Compared to what?


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

madwolfa said:


> fuzziekiwi said:
> 
> 
> > Got my Schiit, Asgard 2 & Modi. Underwhelmed so far. Things sound the same so far.
> ...


 
 http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-XONAR-Headphone-Audio-Card/dp/B0045JHJSS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407438078&sr=8-1&keywords=xonar+DG


----------



## Fuzziekiwi




----------



## madwolfa

Audio is tricky. Depends on your hearing and the music you're listening to... I wasn't expecting miracles, replacing my X-CAN V3 with Asgard 2 - I just wanted something new.. And you had a good sound card to start with.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

madwolfa said:


> Audio is tricky. Depends on your hearing and the music you're listening to... I wasn't expecting miracles, replacing my X-CAN V3 with Asgard 2 - I just wanted something new.. And you had a good sound card to start with.


 
 I am comparing the soundcard with this schiit stack at the moment.


----------



## gmahler2u

fuzziekiwi said:


>


 
 BEAUTIFUL SCHIIT!!!!!!


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

gmahler2u said:


> fuzziekiwi said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 You sir, is the reason I love this thread


----------



## gmahler2u

HEY you got some Juicy phones too!!!
 it's perfect for Asgard 2!...
  
 You start phone rolling...I'm doing tube rolling...LOL
  
 Have good listening time man.


----------



## Billheiser

fuzziekiwi said:


> Got my Schiit, Asgard 2 & Modi. Underwhelmed so far. Things sound the same so far.


 
 As a Schiit owner who likes their stuff, I say send it back if it does not improve on your current sound setup.  No problem, that's what their guarantee is for.


----------



## gmahler2u

it needs some time to break-in.  give this schiit some time here....this baby just got home....
 This schiit needs to settle down....like human!  LOL


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

billheiser said:


> fuzziekiwi said:
> 
> 
> > Got my Schiit, Asgard 2 & Modi. Underwhelmed so far. Things sound the same so far.
> ...


 
 Well, one of the reasons I wanted to buy it was because of future headphone upgrades. I know for sure that I will some day upgrade to an Audeze or HD700/800+ but that's probably 5 years from now. 
  
 If I had to say anything I've noticed these past 15 minutes is that they make my Q's sound just a tad bit warmer. Could be placebo
  
 I'll be removing my soundcard from my computer to see the difference between onboard & the Asgard, then I'm sure I'll hear a difference. It is more convenient to have the Asgard & Modi because I'm always afraid I'm going to accidentally hit the front port of my computer case 3.5mm jack and break it. 
  
 My graphics card also covers another PCI slot on my motherboard so I don't have room for a network card, so getting rid of the soundcard was also a plus.
  
 But for $250+$99 I expected a little more.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

If I pause my music and crank the volume knob i hear some sort of hiss/static sound.


----------



## Billheiser

fuzziekiwi said:


> If I pause my music and crank the volume knob i hear some sort of hiss/static sound.


 
 The usual culprit for that would be the amp.  But I thought the Asgard had virtually no noise (I have other Schiit amps so no direct experience w/ Asgard 2).
 Under the same conditions (paused and crank volume) does your sound card have noise?


----------



## ab initio

fuzziekiwi said:


> If I pause my music and crank the volume knob i hear some sort of hiss/static sound.


 
  
 Make sure your sound card settings are set for 24 bit depth in your OS. I run Modi at 24/96 and with Magni the background is pitch black where there was an incredible amount of noise and hiss from any of my computer's integrated sound.
  
 Also, make sure you set your amp for low gain if you are getting audible noise. The SNR is *supposed* to be plenty high that you should have a pitch black background  while simultaneously having plenty of power to blow your eardrums in.
  
 Finally, I think some of the best music for testing the capabilities of a sound system are well recorded, dynamic tracks. Especially if they contain acoustic instruments. I've noticed that some of the peaks in piano concertos make my powered monitors distort at moderately high volumes and it's very very obvious. I don't know if it's the actual speakers or the built in amps that distort. I've only ever heard it during peak loudness of piano recordings at elevated volumes. Listing to music with amplified instruments, I never detect any distortion despite louder overall volumes.
  
 However, I second Billheiser, if you're getting unsatisfactory performance, send it back to Schiit. The devices *should* perform outstandingly.
  
 Final thought: based on what I could make out of your headphone collection, you don't seem to have any headphones that actually require special headphone amplification... As long as the background noise from your old soundcard is below audible (computer hiss, interference, power supply hum, etc.), I don't think there is any reason to expect the sound card to sound any worse or insufficient with your line up of headphones. I don't know what the output impedance or maximum voltage swing is, but otherwise Asus's specs suggest that the soundcard should be audibly identical to the Schiit offering for typical headphones.
  
 Cheers


----------



## Defiant00

billheiser said:


> The usual culprit for that would be the amp.  But I thought the Asgard had virtually no noise (I have other Schiit amps so no direct experience w/ Asgard 2).
> Under the same conditions (paused and crank volume) does your sound card have noise?


 
  
 Kind of disagree.
  
 If you have nothing plugged into the amp then yeah, it's the amp. If you have something plugged into it then (at least in my experience) you're usually hearing noise from your source.
  
 As far as obvious improvements; I'd expect you to notice a difference with your HD650 and Q701, but not necessarily with anything else.
  
 Personally, with some sensitive cans (like my MA900), even something like a Clip+ sounds quite similar (and surprisingly good!)
  
*Edit:* Would also echo what others have said. While I'm a bit of a Schiit fanboy, I'd fully agree that there's no reason to keep equipment if you aren't hearing any noticeable improvement with your cans, and there's nothing wrong with that (hey, you just potentially saved a few hundred dollars!)


----------



## madwolfa

Got the new cans for my Schiit!


----------



## gmahler2u

madwolfa said:


> Got the new cans for my Schiit!


 
 AGAIN I SAY THIS TWICE TODAY!
  
 "BEAUTIFUL SCHIIT"


----------



## Naugrim

fuzziekiwi said:


> Well, one of the reasons I wanted to buy it was because of future headphone upgrades. I know for sure that I will some day upgrade to an Audeze or HD700/800+ but that's probably 5 years from now.
> 
> If I had to say anything I've noticed these past 15 minutes is that they make my Q's sound just a tad bit warmer. Could be placebo
> 
> ...


 
 I noticed a big difference between the Modi and the Bifrost - and I haven't even Ubered yet.  I don't even lift.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

billheiser said:


> fuzziekiwi said:
> 
> 
> > If I pause my music and crank the volume knob i hear some sort of hiss/static sound.
> ...


 
 Nope, no noise from the soundcard


----------



## gmahler2u

naugrim said:


> I noticed a big difference between the Modi and the Bifrost - and I haven't even Ubered yet.  I don't even lift.


 
 Pull the trigger man.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get the Uber board.
  
 You'll have eargasmic sound!!!


----------



## Naugrim

gmahler2u said:


> AGAIN I SAY THIS TWICE TODAY!
> 
> "BEAUTIFUL SCHIIT"


 
 Contrary to popular belief - there's nothing bad about getting Schiit canned.


----------



## Naugrim

gmahler2u said:


> Pull the trigger man.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You guys are such enablers on this site.  I'm gonna hold off for a bit.  2 weddings next month, a trip across country and GenCon.  Not to mention a week vacation in California.  Now, I could sell my computer....this site is accesible by mobile right?


----------



## Themorganlett85

madwolfa said:


> Got the new cans for my Schiit!


 

 This makes me feel very funny in my pants.


----------



## gmahler2u

naugrim said:


> Contrary to popular belief - there's nothing bad about getting Schiit canned.


 
  
 Hey man!!! you're lucky man..
  
 You're surrounded by SCHIIT!!  HoLY SCHIIT!!!!!
  
 You're BEAUTIFUL!!!


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

Lol someone give this guy a medal


----------



## gmahler2u

themorganlett85 said:


> This makes me feel very funny in my pants.


 
 cute! just pull the trigger and get happy!!


----------



## Naugrim

gmahler2u said:


> Hey man!!! you're lucky man..
> 
> You're surrounded by SCHIIT!!  HoLY SCHIIT!!!!!
> 
> You're BEAUTIFUL!!!


 
 LOL - well I'll give you this. You know your Schiit.


----------



## gmahler2u

naugrim said:


> You guys are such enablers on this site.  I'm gonna hold off for a bit.  2 weddings next month, a trip across country and GenCon.  Not to mention a week vacation in California.  Now, I could sell my computer....this site is accesible by mobile right?


 
 Yeah, This site can make you pain in your wallet for sure!!!  I'm already pain in my credit card bill!!  
  
 still cooL!!
  
 I just wanna schiit in my pants...


----------



## gmahler2u

naugrim said:


> LOL - well I'll give you this. You know your Schiit.


 
 yeah..but it's tip of the iceberg!  Deeper you go bigger hole you'll getting!!  LOL


----------



## Naugrim

gmahler2u said:


> Yeah, This site can make you pain in your wallet for sure!!!  I'm already pain in my credit card bill!!
> 
> still cooL!!
> 
> I just wanna schiit in my pants...


 
  
 Even though my Schiit don't stink, doesn't mean I want it in my pants.  Everybody here has hot Schiit.  Get your Schiit together man!


----------



## Pepe Silvia

3 days to get my uberfrost !!!!! i will take some pills to sleep 3 days in a row


----------



## gmahler2u

naugrim said:


> Even though my Schiit don't stink, doesn't mean I want it in my pants.  Everybody here has hot Schiit.  Get your Schiit together man!


 
 YES SURE!!!  MY SCHIIT READY TO GO SURE!!


----------



## Naugrim

pepe silvia said:


> 3 days to get my uberfrost !!!!! i will take some pills to sleep 3 days in a row


 
 lol - enjoy the journey.  The agonizing journey.


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> Got the new cans for my Schiit!



I don't know what it is, cause I already think the LCD2 is too large for my liking...but, your LCD2 with micro suede is really nice. First time I've seen that.


----------



## madwolfa

cjs06 said:


> I don't know what it is, cause I already think the LCD2 is too large for my liking...but, your LCD2 with micro suede is really nice. First time I've seen that.


 
  
 Yep, after HD600/650 I specifically wanted the suede pads. They're very plush and my ears are not getting sweaty/hot.
  
 I don't feel the weight/discomfort.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

There's a difference... I'm hearing it.. maybe it's my imagination.. maybe it's not?
  
 Highs seem to be smoother, sibilance (if any) is smoothed out, sounds slightly warmer. 
  
 Schiit has really taken me in and I guess I won't return it because it looks pretty and has plenty of power to spare if I plan on upgrading to better headphones. I'm one of you now!
  
 I just can't believe I payed the same for this as I did with my 650's, but I think it's worth it for the Q701's since some live recordings I was almost at max volumes with them from my Xonar DG. Just have to remember money is always replaceable. 
  
 Aesthetics wise it's a nice stack of metal Schiit that looks super nice on my table.
  
 BEAUTIFUL SCHIIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## madwolfa

fuzziekiwi said:


> Schiit has really taken me in and I guess I won't return it because it looks pretty and has plenty of power to spare if I plan on upgrading to better headphones. I'm one of you now!


 
  
 Glad you've settled in!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Yep, after HD600/650 I specifically wanted the suede pads. They're very plush and my ears are not getting sweaty/hot.
> 
> I don't feel the weight/discomfort.


 
 I see that HAS (Headphone Acquisition Syndrome) has struck again. Good timing the weekend is coming around so you can really listen up. Enjoy.


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> Got the new cans for my Schiit!


 
 Schweet.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> I see that HAS (Headphone Acquisition Syndrome) has struck again. Good timing the weekend is coming around so you can really listen up. Enjoy.


 
  
 Yeah, first I wanted to buy the LCD-X... left the browser window opened.. (bait casted).
 My wife comes in and her face is like: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 "Don't tell me you wanna buy these?? For 2K??"
 I said: "NO WAY!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So in 2 days I'm silently ordering... LCD-2 for under 1K.
  
 Next day my wife seeing the bank statement:
  
 "So... you got them afterall!!... *sighs*"
  
 And I reply: "But hey, see, I saved us almost $1000!!" 
  
 I love my wife...


----------



## madwolfa

By the way, Asgard 2 pairs extremely well with LCD-2. Similarly to HD650, I'm using it in low gain mode and don't ever need to crank over 12 am.


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> By the way, Asgard 2 pairs extremely well with LCD-2. Similarly to HD650, I'm using it in low gain mode and don't ever need to crank over 12 am.


 
 I would have assumed high gain use for the 650 (300 ohms).  Clearly its working well for you as is.  Does high gain give too much power or are you just looking to super-minimize any noise?


----------



## Themorganlett85

Does anyone have any experience with LCD-2s with the Valhalla 1 or 2?


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> I would have assumed high gain use for the 650 (300 ohms).  Clearly its working well for you as is.  Does high gain give too much power or are you just looking to super-minimize any noise?


 
  
 Don't really have any issues in either mode (and no noise floor audible even at 100%), it's just low gain gives me more volume pot travel for better fine tuning.
  
 Also my hearing is pretty sensitive.
  
 High gain for 300 Ohms is not a rule, but general recommendation... Schiit told me I should use whichever mode works best for me. YMMV.


----------



## gmahler2u

madwolfa said:


> By the way, Asgard 2 pairs extremely well with LCD-2. Similarly to HD650, I'm using it in low gain mode and don't ever need to crank over 12 am.


 
 When you try LCD2.2 with Lyr, you're going to love even more!


----------



## gmahler2u

themorganlett85 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with LCD-2s with the Valhalla 1 or 2?


 
 I have and I loved it.  But I switched over to Lyr.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, first I wanted to buy the LCD-X... left the browser window opened.. (bait casted).
> My wife comes in and her face is like: :eek:
> 
> "Don't tell me you wanna buy these?? For 2K??"
> ...




Genius, pure genius


----------



## fenderf4i

madwolfa said:


> By the way, Asgard 2 pairs extremely well with LCD-2. Similarly to HD650, I'm using it in low gain mode and don't ever need to crank over 12 am.




It absolutely does. I don't know that I can tell much if any difference from it to the Lyr.


----------



## madwolfa

themorganlett85 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with LCD-2s with the Valhalla 1 or 2?


 
  
 I think it would be less than optimal. Orthodynamics are current hungry headphones and would benefit from as low output impedance as possible.
 Which is pretty opposite from what Valhalla is good at (or any other tube OTL amplifier).


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Cannot speak to the LCD 2.2 with the Lyr 2, but it is magic with the HE560! Come on Madwolfa go for the Lyr 2 and we can tube roll some!


----------



## madwolfa

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Cannot speak to the LCD 2.2 with the Lyr 2, but it is magic with the HE560! Come on Madwolfa go for the Lyr 2 and we can tube roll some!


 
  
 I can't go any further testing my wife's limits!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, first I wanted to buy the LCD-X... left the browser window opened.. (bait casted).
> My wife comes in and her face is like:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Check your bank statement, she'll be getting some new jewelry, very soon.


----------



## Themorganlett85

madwolfa said:


> I think it would be less than optimal. Orthodynamics are current hungry headphones and would benefit from as low output impedance as possible.
> Which is pretty opposite from what Valhalla is good at (or any other tube OTL amplifier).


 
 Ahh cool, thanks. I'll eventually have a pair of em well hopefully, any suggestions for a good amp to pair with them besides the Valhalla 2?


----------



## madwolfa

themorganlett85 said:


> Ahh cool, thanks. I'll eventually have a pair of em well hopefully, any suggestions for a good amp to pair with them besides the Valhalla 2?


 
  
 I guess Lyr 2 would be really nice, but as I said, Asgard 2 is more than sufficient, 200$ less expensive and maintenance-free.


----------



## Themorganlett85

madwolfa said:


> I guess Lyr 2 would be really nice, but as I said, Asgard 2 is more than sufficient, 200$ less expensive and maintenance-free.


 
 You're awesome, thanks for the input.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Check your bank statement, she'll be getting some new jewelry, very soon.


 
  
 Luckily she's a beadwork artist and making all jewellery for herself. 
  
 Yeap, I'm one lucky cheapskate SOB!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Luckily she's a beadwork artist and making all jewellery for herself.
> 
> Yeap, I'm one lucky cheapskate SOB!


 
 What if she decides to get herself headphones, a pair of *STAX SR-009*s and the requisite amp?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

madwolfa said:


> I can't go any further testing my wife's limits!




Maybe we can set up some Family trips to Ukraine, and maybe a little tube hunting expedition!


----------



## TeskR

wildcatsare1 said:


> Maybe we can set up some Family trips to Ukraine, and maybe a little tube hunting expedition!




And bullet dodging


----------



## madwolfa

teskr said:


> And bullet dodging


 
  
 Whenever you go to Ukraine, it's "All Inclusive" for ya.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> What if she decides to get herself headphones, a pair of *STAX SR-009*s and the requisite amp?


 
  
 Nah, don't think so. But she has started reviewing the baby registry - I feel revenge is coming close!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Whenever you go to Ukraine, it's "All Inclusive" for ya.


 
 Just don't book a flight with Malaysian Airlines, they've been running short on luck..


----------



## madwolfa

One thing I know for sure now... there's no match to Audeze in reproducing the piano.
  
 Listening to "Jacques Loussier - Impressions on Chopin's Nocturnes" and it sounds absolutely godlike!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

madwolfa said:


> Whenever you go to Ukraine, it's "All Inclusive" for ya.




I've been brushing up on my Russian, and started a local, we love Vlad Chapter !


----------



## Zojokkeli

wildcatsare1 said:


> I've been brushing up on my Russian, and started a local, we love Vlad Chapter !




Better learn ukrainian, you probably wouldn't like to be mistaken to be a russian over there.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

My Family are all Ukranian, so we can give the secret handshake.


----------



## Zojokkeli

Here's some new Schiit from couple of weeks ago. The TH900 in the back is also brand new.


----------



## Naugrim

zojokkeli said:


> Here's some new Schiit from couple of weeks ago. The TH900 in the back is also brand new.


 
 Dude...a real photographer and Schiit.  I'm thinking of swapping my LCD-XC's for theTH900's (mostly for fit).  How are the TH900's on that setup?


----------



## gmahler2u

wildcatsare1 said:


> Genius, pure genius


 
 tha


madwolfa said:


> Yeah, first I wanted to buy the LCD-X... left the browser window opened.. (bait casted).
> My wife comes in and her face is like:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That won't work on my wife!


----------



## gmahler2u

zojokkeli said:


> Here's some new Schiit from couple of weeks ago. The TH900 in the back is also brand new.


 
 Yah,,,nice set up indeed.  Beautiful picture and your th900 and momentum.  lovely.


----------



## gmahler2u

Question for all Schiit users!!
  
 anybody using WYRD USB DECRAPIFIER?
  
 is this useful? or not useful?  
  
 They also have SYS PASSIVE PREAMP.  It looks pretty useful...
  
 did any buying or bought these items?
  
 Share your thought on these please.


----------



## jexby

gmahler2u said:


> Question for all Schiit users!!
> 
> anybody using WYRD USB DECRAPIFIER?
> 
> is this useful? or not useful?


 
  
 my Wyrd impressions are here:
  
post #43


----------



## StanD

gmahler2u said:


> Question for all Schiit users!!
> 
> anybody using WYRD USB DECRAPIFIER?
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're expecting improvements in SQ, this is what Schiit says on their FAQ page on this.
  
*Sonic benefits? That’s a lot of hoo-ha!*
You’re right. There’s no reason this should make any system sound better. Although we can measure the difference in USB power supply noise, it really shouldn’t matter. Despite this, some listeners have said that there are sonic benefits from using Wyrd. Us, we remain Swiss on the matter—we don’t do the hard sell by promising sonic nirvana.


----------



## FangJoker

I'd like to know the difference in sound between the Valhalla and Asgard 2.   How long is it ok to  keep the valhalla running for?  Sometimes I'm at the computer for 30 minutes and sometimes I'm on it for over 12 hours.  I don't want to  hurt the Valhalla by keeping it on that long so I go between that and my asus stx soundcard every couple of hours.


----------



## superjawes

The tubes on Valhalla are going to burn out eventually whether you you take care of them or not (although you can maximize their life with some care). The rest of the amp should be fine, so you'll just need a new set of tubes when the burnout happens.


----------



## Billheiser

vegasf1 said:


> I'd like to know the difference in sound between the Valhalla and Asgard 2.   How long is it ok to  keep the valhalla running for?  Sometimes I'm at the computer for 30 minutes and sometimes I'm on it for over 12 hours.  I don't want to  hurt the Valhalla by keeping it on that long so I go between that and my asus stx soundcard every couple of hours.



It won't hurt the Valhalla! It's made to be used and enjoyed. After thousands of hours, pop in a new set of tubes. They're a whole $40, from Schiit. Then enjoy Valhalla again til you're old and deaf.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

gmahler2u said:


> Question for all Schiit users!!
> 
> anybody using WYRD USB DECRAPIFIER?
> 
> ...




Yes, with the Modi or iFi iDSD Nano, blacker background, improved soundstage, tonality, slight, but clearly audible.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stand said:


> If you're expecting improvements in SQ, this is what Schiit says on their FAQ page on this.
> 
> [COLOR=8F8F8F]*[COLOR=0000FF]Sonic benefits? That’s a lot of hoo-ha![/COLOR]*[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=8F8F8F]You’re right. There’s no reason this should make any system sound better. Although we can measure the difference in USB power supply noise, it really shouldn’t matter. Despite this, some listeners have said that there are sonic benefits from using Wyrd. Us, we remain Swiss on the matter—we don’t do the hard sell by promising sonic nirvana.[/COLOR]




Have you tried one in your system?


----------



## Billheiser

wildcatsare1 said:


> Yes, with the Modi or iFi iDSD Nano, blacker background, improved soundstage, tonality, slight, but clearly audible.



I predict a protesting response from Stan D in 3,2,1....


----------



## Nic Rhodes

but still we are after people with first hand experience quoting their thoughts on the real item.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

billheiser said:


> I predict a protesting response from Stan D in 3,2,1....




If Stan D has actually tried one, in his system, perhaps he has a valid point.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> If Stan D has actually tried one, in his system, perhaps he has a valid point.


 
 As per Bill's request. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If one understands how this works, they would know what it's used for. If your source has a noisey USB power supply it might have value. As for improving SQ or soundstage, Schiit pretty much says, nope.
 This is a simple matter, you don't have to try it unless you are experiencing noise from a USB source. Below I will once more, repeat the quote from Schiit's FAQ on the Wyrd. If one enjoys the product, continue doing so, I wouldn't stop anyone.
 So here's Schiit's statement, believe it or not. Make your own decision.
*Sonic benefits? That’s a lot of hoo-ha!*
You’re right. There’s no reason this should make any system sound better. Although we can measure the difference in USB power supply noise, it really shouldn’t matter. Despite this, some listeners have said that there are sonic benefits from using Wyrd. Us, we remain Swiss on the matter—we don’t do the hard sell by promising sonic nirvana.


----------



## jexby

billheiser said:


> I predict a protesting response from Stan D in 3,2,1....


 
  
 exactly why he's in my block list.... no one's experiences are valid, except his.


----------



## Billheiser

jexby said:


> exactly why he's in my block list.... no one's experiences are valid, except his.


 
 Oh, I think StanD is great and I don't necessarily disagree with him.  Just making a fun prediction that he would respond, which he did in a most reasonable way.


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> exactly why he's in my block list.... no one's experiences are valid, except his.


 
  
  


billheiser said:


> Oh, I think StanD is great and I don't necessarily disagree with him.  Just making a fun prediction that he would respond, which he did in a most reasonable way.


 
 Heck I clearly state what my opinions are and often say that anyone can do and think as they wish. I'm an EE and happen to understand how this stuff works, thus try to add a counterbalancing voice to what I think is incorrect and might mislead others. I in no way am forcing anyone to do anything, or blocking anyone.
 Haha, your prediction swayed me to respond. Not that long ago Purrin agreed with me on this same topic.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stand said:


> Heck I clearly state what my opinions are and often say that anyone can do and think as they wish. I'm an EE and happen to understand how this stuff works, thus try to add a counterbalancing voice to what I think is incorrect and might mislead others. I in no way am forcing anyone to do anything, or blocking anyone.
> Haha, your prediction swayed me to respond. Not that long ago Purrin agreed with me on this same topic.




The good folks at Schiit don't make any sonic claims because they do not want to waste their precious time responding to naysayers, dolts and flat earthers.

StanD. Try it in your system, read the review in Audiostream, funny the review confirms my findings, in my system. Plus, you may want to read Purrin's review, the preponderance of data indicates you really don't know what you are talking about. Please don't quote the Schiit Site again, that's getting a bit tedious.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> The good folks at Schiit don't make any sonic claims because they do not want to waste their precious time responding to naysayers, dolts and flat earthers.
> 
> StanD. Try it in your system, read the review in Audiostream, funny the review confirms my findings, in my system. Plus, you may want to read Purrin's review, the preponderance of data indicates you really don't know what you are talking about. Please don't quote the Schiit Site again, that's getting a bit tedious.


 
 Data? What data? What is the difference between proper data and hearsay or subjective opinion? If one learns what the technology is and how it works, what it does and does not do, they might think differently. Read more carefully what Schitt says about the product, it's plain and simple. If you have noise from your USB source interfering with SQ, then it's a good option, otherwise, IMO no.
 Speaking of Purrin, read the below recent post about the Wyrd.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685162/new-vali-schiit-amp/4125#post_10764799


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^ Stan D, Purrin just states that he doesn't know how it works, but that it indeed, "smooths out the highs combined with the Modi".

My apologies, not "data", but evidence from those who have actually listened to one in their system. Stan D, try one in your system, until then you have 0 credibility regarding the Wyrd.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^ Stan D, Purrin just states that he doesn't know how it works, but that it indeed, "smooths out the highs combined with the Modi".
> 
> My apologies, not "data", but evidence from those who have actually listened to one in their system. Stan D, try one in your system, until then you have 0 credibility regarding the Wyrd.


 
 You say potato, I say tomato.  I will not lose sleep tonight about the '0' cred rap. I don't have to get a Wyrd to understand what it does, just like I don't have to go to Mars to know that Martians are not living large. You might giving it a shot as to learning how this works so that you can better understand how it affects SQ, or doesn't. Let's leave it at that. TGIF.


----------



## gmahler2u

I like that song StanD...you say potato I say tomato!!! either nither call it whole thing off.
  
 TGIF.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

TGIF, we agree to disagree, enjoy the music.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> TGIF, we agree to disagree, enjoy the music.


 
 Yep, it's time to grab my HE-500's and jump onto the Bifrost, if Heimdall will allow me.


----------



## CJs06

Well that actually came to a reasonable end... there is hope for us here after all hahaha.
  
 I still believe the Wyrd is pure sorcery even though it is just a fancy single port USB hub lol
  
 I'm debating plugging a Wyrd into another Wyrd and then into a Modi... This may result in unheard of consequences in SQ.
  
 I'll report back with my findings. When I get two Wyrds of course.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

cjs06 said:


> Well that actually came to a reasonable end... there is hope for us here after all hahaha.
> 
> I still believe the Wyrd is pure sorcery even though it is just a fancy single port USB hub lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ever heard of the phrase "less is more"?


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> Well that actually came to a reasonable end... there is hope for us here after all hahaha.
> 
> I still believe the Wyrd is pure sorcery even though it is just a fancy single port USB hub lol
> 
> ...


 
 Man, that's weird.


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> Ever heard of the phrase "less is more"?


 
*Occam's razor*


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Listening to Allison Krauss and Union Station on the Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2>HE560's and this combination is beyond reproach, yes the Wyrd improves the Modi, dramatically. Snake oil, virgin nymphs spells, IDGAF, it sounds great!


----------



## CJs06

blackenedplague said:


> Ever heard of the phrase "less is more"?


 

 This is head-fi where everything results in SQ improvement. To include more fancy USB hubs.
  
 You will not tell me that a USB hub, that isolates power from the USB input with a liner regulated power supply and re-clocks the packets with a crystal oscillator from Odin himself does not make my copy of Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" have improved instrument separation, wider soundstage and clearer highs and overall better sound quality.


----------



## Themorganlett85

^ I like this guy.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^To each his own, love mine, definitely have the ears, experience and equipment to note the difference, Odin says avoid thunderstorms for the immediate future ⚡️.


----------



## CJs06

Ah that brings something else to my attention and curiosity. Does anyone partake in regular clinical hearing tests? I'm curious because I've read many times of people who claim to have the "golden ears" (including those who passed the Philips online program). Would their clinical test results coincide with their claim? I'm in a profession that requires me to have annual hearing tests on record and I have pretty good documented hearing.


----------



## KLJTech

One of the things I love about Schiit Audio is they under promise and over deliver.
  
 They simply claim that the Wyrd cleans up your USB connection, eliminating noise and glitches...they don't "claim" that it improves sound quality, _but I wouldn't be surprised_ if it improved some systems...others maybe not. It's a $100 component that provides a cleaner/better USB signal, not a multi-thousand dollar CD transport to go with your $20K DAC so I'm not sure why some act as if its Voodoo. 
  
 Seems to me that if they're willing to bring to market a passive preamp for $49 (made in USA) it should be clear that they're not in the snake oil business.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kljtech said:


> One of the things I love about Schiit Audio is they under promise and over deliver.
> 
> They simply claim that the Wyrd [COLOR=222222]cleans up your USB connection, eliminating noise and glitches...they don't "claim" that it improves sound quality, _but I wouldn't be surprised_ if it improved some systems...others maybe not. It's a $100 component that provides a cleaner/better USB signal, not a multi-thousand dollar CD transport to go with your $20K DAC so I'm not sure why some act as if its Voodoo. [/COLOR]
> 
> Seems to me that if they're willing to bring to market a passive preamp for $49 (made in USA) it should be clear that they're not in the snake oil business.




Well said, and dam it it works, lowers the noise floor, which in turn May improve imaging, soundstage (headstage) and tone. To try it or not is ultimately your choice, but for $99.00 and Schiit's return policy, what do you have to loose?


----------



## CJs06

wildcatsare1 said:


> Well said, and dam it it works, lowers the noise floor, which in turn May improve imaging, soundstage (headstage) and tone. To try it or not is ultimately your choice, but for $99.00 and Schiit's return policy, what do you have to loose?


 

 Schiit, I'd probably buy it because its weird or wyrd, but I'm different like that. I mean, not many people have a 99$ USB hub; that's a hell of a talking point.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

cjs06 said:


> This is head-fi where everything results in SQ improvement. To include more fancy USB hubs.
> 
> You will not tell me that a USB hub, that isolates power from the USB input with a liner regulated power supply and re-clocks the packets with a crystal oscillator from Odin himself does not make my copy of Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" have improved instrument separation, wider soundstage and clearer highs and overall better sound quality.


----------



## CJs06

blackenedplague said:


>


 

 Ahhh schiit, you had me rolling on the floor lol


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Listening to Allison Krauss and Union Station on the Wyrd>Modi>Lyr 2>HE560's and this combination is beyond reproach, yes the Wyrd improves the Modi, dramatically. Snake oil, virgin nymphs spells, IDGAF, it sounds great!


 
 IMO, neither snake oil or virgin nymphs spells, just emotions at work while enjoying music. A powerful force, enjoy the listening.


----------



## jexby

wildcatsare1 said:


> Well said, and dam it it works, lowers the noise floor, which in turn May improve imaging, soundstage (headstage) and tone. To try it or not is ultimately your choice, but for $99.00 and Schiit's return policy, what do you have to loose?




You could lose $15 restocking fee plus $10 shipping it back to them.
For a 15 day rental = $1.67 per day


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> This is head-fi where everything results in SQ improvement. To include more fancy USB hubs.
> 
> You will not tell me that a USB hub, that isolates power from the USB input with a liner regulated power supply and re-clocks the packets with a crystal oscillator from Odin himself does not make my copy of Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" have improved instrument separation, wider soundstage and clearer highs and overall better sound quality.


 
 Ain't it the truth. Ya got me laughing some. Hey, this hub has only one output. What gives?


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Ain't it the truth. Ya got me laughing some. Hey, this hub has only one output. What gives?


 

 It just occurred to me. Head-Fi... the only place you'll see single output USB hubs in use.


----------



## jeremy205100

I'm a Schiit fanboy and all but when the Wyrd was announced I thought, "Wow a Schiit USB hub! It's pretty overpriced for $99, but maybe if it has a bunch of USB ports it'd be worth it for the looks." Then I saw the back. Needless to say it's not something I desired, let alone urgently wanted to buy. I'm sure if you're springing for a $1000 DAC it's a nice add-on, but it seems sort of useless to me.

 Plus, if you're going to buy this, you're also likely big on cables. Imagine factoring in the additional audiophile USB cable. I'm also surprised they didn't put it in a bigger chassis with an integrated power supply, because then people could use their fancy power cables. 
  
 I'm not saying it's a bad product, but it seems like it's targeted towards the entry market when it really should be aimed at the upper level market.


----------



## CJs06

You sir make a very valid point. For those who believe the Wyrd adds a subjective improvement in sound quality along with practical improvements, the Wyrd definitely falls in the category of "tweaks" that appeal to audiophiles who will aim to improve both directly/ indirectly every piece of the signal chain including the power. For them, at 99$ the Wyrd is an incredible value.


----------



## jeremy205100

If anything it would be corrupting their chain by introducing a $3 Chinese wall wart.


----------



## CJs06

Yeah true, that 3$ Chinese wall-wart is a b****.


----------



## jeremy205100

I'm surprised I haven't been bumped off yet for that comment. I felt like the wolves would be after me within seconds.


----------



## StanD

jeremy205100 said:


> If anything it would be corrupting their chain by introducing a $3 Chinese wall wart.


 
 If that is the standard Schiit Wart, it's basically a transformer that delivers AC not one of those warts with a noisy switching regulator assembled by elves on the nightshift at a Chinese prison run by Foxconn. Yes, some of those factories are run like prisons.


----------



## jeremy205100

Still, if you're that concerned about "upgrading" your USB port, you'd think you'd want to use a better power source.


----------



## CJs06

I would hope, that differences in opinion would be met mutual respect here. I see no wrong with anything anyone here believes or does in regards to head-fi.
  
 However, I will most assuredly bring sarcasm and my own flavor of humor here. Cause otherwise, I'd think it would be pretty boring reading the same thing over and over about how this and that made their music sound better.


----------



## StanD

jeremy205100 said:


> Still, if you're that concerned about "upgrading" your USB port, you'd think you'd want to use a better power source.


 
 I think the voltage regulator is in side the Schiit product not the wart which is just an external AC power transformer. The Wyrd is still ground connected between source and amp so ground loops and that kind of noise cannot be cured by this product.


----------



## joebobbilly

Pst... so in response to the earlier LCD2 Schiit pairings mentioned (before all the weird wyrd schiit)...
  
 I heartily recommend and invite you gents to step to the LCD2.2 on Mjolnir + Gungnir 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I mean... Uberfrost with USB is pretty much darn close to the price of a Gungnir no? Same goes for Lyr with a few sets of tubes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just throwing a thought out there


----------



## KLJTech

I'm buying one this weekend to combine with my Gungnir because every once in a while I get this odd burping-like noise from my speakers even when no music is playing. This happens with the Gungnir and it did exactly the same with the Bryston BDA-1 so I'm hoping that the Wyrd will clean up this minor issue.
  
 I don't believe for one second that Mr. Stoddard or Mr. Moffat brought this component to market without knowing for certain that it would function exactly as they claim. A normal USB hub could very well solve this issue too yet its highly unlikely that it would have a linear power supply, LM723 voltage regulators and a high quality crystal oscillator. Will that make a difference for the better in my system? _I honestly don't know_, but I will have the piece of mind of knowing that I did what I could (within reason) to supply my DAC with the cleanest USB signal possible.
  
 Plus, I have no need for more USB inputs that a regular hub would provide so I don't mind at all paying more for the Wyrd and supporting one of my favorite audio gear manufacturers. If all it does is eliminate the odd noise I'm getting every once in a while I'll be pleased and anything beyond that is gravy.


----------



## Zojokkeli

naugrim said:


> Dude...a real photographer and Schiit.  I'm thinking of swapping my LCD-XC's for theTH900's (mostly for fit).  How are the TH900's on that setup?


 
 I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm a real photograper, just something I do for fun. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The TH900's are really comfortable, on par with HD 650's after their initial clamp has eased out. TH900 sounds wonderful, very refined and polite. First I was a bit underwhelmed by the overall bass impact, but put on the right track and it's a whole different animal. Can't help but to think these would benefit from a killer amp, but they sound very good as is.
  
  


gmahler2u said:


> Yah,,,nice set up indeed.  Beautiful picture and your th900 and momentum.  lovely.


 
 Thanks! I enjoy them immensely much.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

kljtech said:


> I'm buying one this weekend to combine with my Gungnir because every once in a while I get this odd burping-like noise from my speakers even when no music is playing. This happens with the Gungnir and it did exactly the same with the Bryston BDA-1 so I'm hoping that the Wyrd will clean up this minor issue.
> 
> I don't believe for one second that Mr. Stoddard or Mr. Moffat brought this component to market without knowing for certain that it would function exactly as they claim. A normal USB hub could very well solve this issue too yet its highly unlikely that it would have a linear power supply, LM723 voltage regulators and a high quality crystal oscillator. Will that make a difference for the better in my system? _I honestly don't know_, but I will have the piece of mind of knowing that I did what I could (within reason) to supply my DAC with the cleanest USB signal possible.
> 
> Plus, I have no need for more USB inputs that a regular hub would provide so I don't mind at all paying more for the Wyrd and supporting one of my favorite audio gear manufacturers. If all it does is eliminate the odd noise I'm getting every once in a while I'll be pleased and anything beyond that is gravy.




I look forward to reading about your experience and sonic impressions, it will be great to hear the findings of somebody who has actually heard the Wyrd in their system. I find it interesting when people can make pronouncements of truth based on their hypothetical beliefs, without experience/knowledge.


----------



## madwolfa

joebobbilly said:


> I heartily recommend and invite you gents to step to the LCD2.2 on Mjolnir + Gungnir


 
  
 I just don't have so much space on my desk. On another hand, Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack fits perfectly...
 And I'm extremely happy with its performance with LCD-2.


----------



## CJs06

madwolfa said:


> I just don't have so much space on my desk. On another hand, Bifrost/Asgard 2 stack fits perfectly...
> And I'm extremely happy with its performance with LCD-2.


 

 I had a chance to listen to the LCD 2 and LCD XC with my Bifrost / Lyr combo earlier this year. I will say that being my first time auditioning, I don't have much to compare the experience to but I'm not quite sure if I prefer the HE500 over the LCD 2. I wasn't too excited about listening to the LCD XC but the LCD 2 was fairly impressive with Jazz and okay with EDM. I prefer the HE500 with EDM... that bass, dear lord.


----------



## TeskR

wildcatsare1 said:


> I look forward to reading about your experience and sonic impressions, it will be great to hear the findings of somebody who has actually heard the Wyrd in their system. I find it interesting when people can make pronouncements of truth based on their hypothetical beliefs, without experience/knowledge.



 


To be fair StanD as an electrical engineer has plenty of knowledge on the subject, Physics isn't really a hypothetical belief.

You don't have to visit the sun to know you would be vaporized attempting to stand on it.


----------



## DarkRuiner

I'd love to get the Valhalla 2, but it would cost me over 600 dollars to get it imported to sweden...


----------



## StanD

darkruiner said:


> I'd love to get the Valhalla 2, but it would cost me over 600 dollars to get it imported to sweden...


 
 Ouch, that's nearly double the price. How come that severe?


----------



## DarkRuiner

stand said:


> Ouch, that's nearly double the price. How come that severe?


 
 Valhalla 2 + shipping is approximately 400 USD
+ 20% import fees  = 480 USD
+ 25% tax = 600 USD
Yup, it sucks


----------



## StanD

darkruiner said:


> Valhalla 2 + shipping is approximately 400 USD
> + 20% import fees  = 480 USD
> + 25% tax = 600 USD
> Yup, it sucks


 
 Yikes, aside from the import duty, is that 25% on anything purchased domestically?


----------



## DarkRuiner

stand said:


> Yikes, aside from the import duty, is that 25% on anything purchased domestically?


 
 Yeah, so you can expect everything in Sweden to be at least 25% more expensive than in the US.
 Taken from Wikipedia: The value added tax (_mervärdesskatt_ or _moms_) rate in Sweden is 25%, with exceptions for food and services like hotel room rental fees (12%), and for sales of publications, admission tickets to cultural events and travel within Sweden (6%)


----------



## kothganesh

darkruiner said:


> Valhalla 2 + shipping [COLOR=333333]is approximately 400 USD[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]+ 20% import fees  = 480 USD[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]+ 25% tax = 600 USD[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]Yup, it sucks[/COLOR]




If it is of any consolation, it's 30% in India. Kinda kills one's interest in the hobby.


----------



## wberghofer

darkruiner said:


> Yeah, so you can expect everything in Sweden to be at least 25% more expensive than in the US.



That’s true, no doubt about it. On the other hand: Did you ever compare the average income in Sweden and the USA?

In the last three years I purchased three Bifrost DACs, four headphone amplifiers and a few tube replacement sets directly from Schiit via their company website. Luckily there’s no distributor for Austria. Even when adding the shipment costs, custom fees and import VAT (20 percent in my country) I’m convinced that for this price no other manufacturer offers gear matching the Schiit stuff in performance, build quality and overall design.

Werner.


----------



## Zojokkeli

stand said:


> Yikes, aside from the import duty, is that 25% on anything purchased domestically?




I know how you feel. It's ridiculous over here also.

Edit: Reply was meant to DarkRuiner.


----------



## gmahler2u

joebobbilly said:


> Pst... so in response to the earlier LCD2 Schiit pairings mentioned (before all the weird wyrd schiit)...
> 
> I heartily recommend and invite you gents to step to the LCD2.2 on Mjolnir + Gungnir
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, I had Lyr an Uberfrost plus LCD2.2!!  It's Spectaular Combo!  I don't know about the other setup but I'm sure it's also Amazing result!!
 Lyr has one thing I don't like is "Tube".  It's like love/hate relationship.  Tube doesn't last forever, that particular point i don't like but I love it "Tube" sound.
 anyways, hope this help.


----------



## Billheiser

gmahler2u said:


> Yes, I had Lyr an Uberfrost plus LCD2.2!!  It's Spectaular Combo!  I don't know about the other setup but I'm sure it's also Amazing result!!
> Lyr has one thing I don't like is "Tube".  It's like love/hate relationship.  Tube doesn't last forever, that particular point i don't like but I love it "Tube" sound.
> anyways, hope this help.


 
 Tubes and women and good times and life don't last forever.  Carpe diem!


----------



## Pepe Silvia

oh man.. what i dissapointment..  i received my package today for a uberfrost.. and what i see.... a LYR!... i live in Venezuela i got it from amazon sold it by schiit. i talked to them and they will refund me once i send the amp.. but the thing is that as a live in Venezuela the shippement will take forever ....


----------



## 65535

I'd consider giving a heads up to Schiit via e-mail. They'd probably like to know about it and make sure things are kept in check.


----------



## jeremy205100

Has anyone tried Schiit (or any other brand) DACs with a Chrome OS computer?


----------



## Rossliew

Schiit Uberfrost + Magni + HE500 = mid-fi end game! In fact I'd go so far to say that this combo comes within a whisker of besting the Uberfrost + Mjolnir + HE500 combo...


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> If it is of any consolation, it's 30% in India. Kinda kills one's interest in the hobby.


 
 Very much the same thing here in Malaysia. But its made worse when the tax rate changes according to the definition of "amplifier" as determined by the customs peeps. I once had the Lyr taxed at a full 30%, then my Magni + uberfrost taxed only at 16%. Then again, maybe coz i said its for computer use yadda yadda..maybe they couldn't understand what I was describing LOL!


----------



## MustelaNivalis

I hope this the Schiit fan section, I'm a believer.
  
 To get back to the Wyrd, I think it has 2 applications: 
 - The first one is to solve any USB audio issues if you happen to suffer from them. 
 - The second one is to power DACs that do not have a decent power supply themselves.
  
 Audio equipment really does need a good power supply. You first have to line up those electrons before you can effortlessly modulate them to the music. The AudioQuest DragonFly for example to my opinion is a DAC with potential, but it feeds from whatever the PC can spare. Unless you connect it through a Wyrd of course.
  
 Recently I paired the Wyrd and the DragonFly and I believe I heard the following improvements: Cleaner sound with more separation in the finer details. Increased fluidity and a wider sound stage. More definition and punch in the low frequencies.
  
 BTW about the taxing when ordered from the USA. In The Netherlands you even have to pay VAT over the US shipping costs. And also over the US VAT come to think of it. schiit-europe.com does not sell the Valhalla 2 nor the Wyrd, so there is not much choice other then to pay.


----------



## Oskari

darkruiner said:


> + 20% import fees


 
  
 The duty rate for audio amplifiers is 4.5% (EU-wide). What's the rest of that? Brokerage fees?


----------



## Oskari

mustelanivalis said:


> BTW about the taxing when ordered from the USA. In The Netherlands you even have to pay VAT over the US shipping costs. And also over the US VAT come to think of it.


 
  

Again, EU-wide.
They don't even have VAT.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

oskari said:


> The duty rate for audio amplifiers is 4.5% (EU-wide). What's the rest of that? Brokerage fees?


 
 I have the strong feeling shipping companies charge some mystic max figure and pass through less to the authorities. Also I think they just look for a figure on the bill and start using that for all calculations. That way you end up paying tax over tax and also the highest rate over everything. It could be just my wicked mind...


----------



## MustelaNivalis

Some real examples since I recently ordered some Schiit equipment, everything is in Euros and including shipping:
  
 Valhalla 2, payed 300.71 to Schiit. FedEx charged me 89.47 extra afterwards.
 Wyrd, payed 92.47 to Schiit. PostNL charged me 28.33 extra afterwards.


----------



## Oskari

mustelanivalis said:


> I have the strong feeling shipping companies charge some mystic max figure and pass through less to the authorities.


 
  
 Of course they do, if you let them, and they can make it very difficult to avoid the brokerage fee, if they want to. Shop around.


----------



## Zojokkeli

mustelanivalis said:


> BTW about the taxing when ordered from the USA. In The Netherlands you even have to pay VAT over the US shipping costs. And also over the US VAT come to think of it. schiit-europe.com does not sell the Valhalla 2 nor the Wyrd, so there is not much choice other then to pay.


 
  
 They probably come to Sonority Audio's selection sooner or later. By the way, not sure if it's because of where I live, but schiit-europe's shippings take a small forever. On both accounts with A2 and Uberfrost it took over two weeks for the shipments to arrive.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

zojokkeli said:


> They probably come to Sonority Audio's selection sooner or later. By the way, not sure if it's because of where I live, but schiit-europe's shippings take a small forever. On both accounts with A2 and Uberfrost it took over two weeks for the shipments to arrive.


 
 I also noticed that the Valhalla (1) I once ordered from Sonority took longer to arrive than the equipment I directly ordered from Schiit USA.
  
 They cannot start selling the Wyrd since currently it is 110 VAC only, but not selling the success number Valhalla 2 keeps me in the dark because if you want to order the old one, it is placed on back-order. So no old stock to sell first. They really miss out on a hype here. 
  
 My personal experience with companies that sell high-end audio is that they attract employees with high self esteem and low self reflection. I expect nothing else from Sonority...


----------



## StanD

VAT will never happen in the USA, we hate taxes and politicians. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Don't they keep adding to VAT as a product exchanges hands before reaching the consumer? Where I come from there is a sales tax of 7% that is levied only once at the final point of sale. Some states charge some more, some charge less, but nothing like those sky high rates some of you guys get slammed with. In a word, ouch


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> VAT will never happen in the USA, we hate taxes and politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 But then we got our crazy expensive healthcare and super expensive education, so it puts everything back into a fair equilibrium.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

stand said:


> VAT will never happen in the USA, we hate taxes and politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep, in Holland the government no longer seems to be there for the citizens. It has been reversed. We also must pay 52% income tax above an equivalent of 70k USD per year. Below that it is "only" 42% and 37%. We really took a wrong turn somewhere, and I think it is going to hit us hard in the near future. Surrounding countries have a much more realistic tax pressure on the working class and the borders are open: so long and thanks for all the fish... But on the bright side, the receivers of all that tax money are satisfied to some extend.
  
 I have to limit myself because I think this is a bit off-topic.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> But then we got our crazy expensive healthcare and super expensive education, so it puts everything back into a fair equilibrium.


 
 I get good health insurance from my work. Education can be reasonable if one goes the Universities, well my daughter's education, I bought an extra small house that I can't live in.


----------



## Oskari

stand said:


> VAT will never happen in the USA, we hate taxes and politicians.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Same excrement, different package.
  


> Don't they keep adding to VAT as a product exchanges hands before reaching the consumer?


 
  
 Yes, but it is a tax on _value added_. There is no tax on tax.
  


> Some states charge some more, some charge less, but nothing like those sky high rates some of you guys get slammed with. In a word, ouch


 
  
 Indeed.


----------



## jeremy205100

jeremy205100 said:


> Has anyone tried Schiit (or any other brand) DACs with a Chrome OS computer?


 
 Anyone? I'm really curious because I might be getting one.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

jeremy205100 said:


> Anyone? I'm really curious because I might be getting one.


 
 Yes, back to the audio topic again: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-547505.html


----------



## jeremy205100

mustelanivalis said:


> Yes, back to the audio topic again: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-547505.html


 
 Thanks!


----------



## madwolfa

I liked this so much, I've decided to paste it here.
  


sonic defender said:


> As long as you're not failing to feed your kids or pay the mortgage you have to live. They say you regret the things you don't do in life far more than the things you do. Enjoy these experiences when you are young and accept that it is okay to indulge in something that is very important to you. We are told by the financial industry that you should be a savings machine (because the banks make far more from your money then you ever will). I say be responsible, and bite of expenses you can handle, but if it takes you a year to pay off a headphone that you love, it is money well invested. Don't believe the hype about needing a million dollars to retire, you'll be old and needing far less than you think. I served an older gentleman one day and we got to talking. I was in my 20s and he gave me this same advice, enjoy living when you are young. Sure pay your bills and try to save some, but don't deny yourself what you really want. He explained to me how he had been a saver and constantly denied himself pleasures as he didn't want to be too indulgent and wasteful. Now as an old man he regretted not doing the things he wanted, not having that nice meal and a bottle of wine with good frieds. Why? Because he had money now, but he was too old to really enjoy what he wanted. Friends were dead or gone, had all kinds of money, but few things he really could enjoy at that age. Enjoy your 650s and don't feel bad, life is a one shot deal my friend, and when you are young your hearing is at its finest.


----------



## Fuzziekiwi

madwolfa said:


> I liked this so much, I've decided to paste it here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I really do love that too. Senior year in high school will be really fun this year I think. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 My audio obsession is complete for now.. now to focus on other hobbies. I'm really going to try to make the most out of the next few years as I've wasted a lot of my high school years tbh.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

mustelanivalis said:


> I hope this the Schiit fan section, I'm a believer.
> 
> To get back to the Wyrd, I think it has 2 applications:
> 
> ...




Nice to hear about your experience with the Wyrd, it mirrors mine, it moves the Modi up the performance food chain. Look forward to hearing about the Wyrd and other DAC's!


----------



## sandab

Does the Wyrd do adaptive (async) USB, or is it isochronous-only?
  
 Edit: never mind, I see it's strictly a hub with clean power and (presumably) a better than usual clock.


----------



## TsukiNick

Really ...why spend as much on the usb hub as the damn dac, I could see if you had some 500 dollar dac or something but for the Modi that would be pointless, honestly even with one of the highest end setups that thing is way overpriced, it should be $50 tops.


----------



## superjawes

tsukinick said:


> Really ...why spend as much on the usb hub as the damn dac, I could see if you had some 500 dollar dac or something but for the Modi that would be pointless, honestly even with one of the highest end setups that thing is way overpriced, it should be $50 tops.


I think the problem is that there's still a solid chunk of change tied up in the chassis, and they're using this particular chassis because they've already been using it for Magni and Modi (and Vali and Sys). From there, there are still several components on the Wyrd board, which means some complexity in the PCB and raw component costs.

Point being that I don't think they _can_ sell if for less than $99. If that seems overpriced, then don't get one. They aren't claiming that it will work miracles anyway.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

superjawes said:


> They aren't claiming that it will work miracles anyway.


 
  
 And this is why I like Schiit


----------



## StanD

superjawes said:


> ........They aren't claiming that it will work miracles anyway.


 
  
  


blackenedplague said:


> And this is why I like Schiit


 
 They have an entertaining way of saying that they don't perform magic. They tend to be bluntly honest about product claims, with a humorous twist.


----------



## TsukiNick

superjawes said:


> I think the problem is that there's still a solid chunk of change tied up in the chassis, and they're using this particular chassis because they've already been using it for Magni and Modi (and Vali and Sys). From there, there are still several components on the Wyrd board, which means some complexity in the PCB and raw component costs.
> 
> Point being that I don't think they _can_ sell if for less than $99. If that seems overpriced, then don't get one. They aren't claiming that it will work miracles anyway.


 

 Guess that's reasonable but I mean the Sys uses same chassis, but one can argue this is a passive unit, but maybe idk like $75, Idk $99 just seems like a really bad price point, but if people are willing to pay for it at that price then they got business.  I am glad that they don't claim it enhances sound.  It's good that Schiit isn't making dumb claims like a lot of companies are.


----------



## gmahler2u

billheiser said:


> Tubes and women and good times and life don't last forever.  Carpe diem!


 
 yeah....I was thinking Solid State last longer than Tube.


----------



## Rudiger

I love Jason and Schiit. But keep in mind that this guy is a genius of marketting. (Advertising generally tries to make us laugh).
 And I am especially appreciative regarding the Wyrd. The description is a way to please both subjectivist and objectivist camp. The famous "Some say there is an improvement" / "but we remains Swiss about it." Very talented because everyone can read what he wants.
 The first part makes me want to try it, it will appeal to subjectivism. The second part is reassuring about the fact that they are not esoteric charlatans. These are serious people, which will appeal to objectivist.
 In a sense, the two arguments are mutually reinforcing (whereas it's a bit like theory of general relativity and quantum, difficult to reconcile.)
 Just my 2 cents. Long live to Shiit anyway ! Continue to make us so great products.


----------



## Byronb

madwolfa said:


> I liked this so much, I've decided to paste it here.


 
 Could not be said better!!!!!


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

Audio  Nirvana = Confirmed
  
 I have a feeling this is going to be my end game for a long while.


----------



## gmahler2u

oicwutudidthar said:


> Audio  Nirvana = Confirmed
> 
> I have a feeling this is going to be my end game for a long while.


 
 Congrates!! Keep that Nirvana forever!
  
 Cheers


----------



## Wildcatsare1

oicwutudidthar said:


> Audio  Nirvana = Confirmed
> 
> I have a feeling this is going to be my end game for a long while.




How are you liking that Wyrd, beautiful Schiit Stack!!!


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone know if the Wyrd will work with a 230V wall adaptor? If it does, I was thinking of buying one and using the Magni wall adaptor for it


----------



## ab initio

tsukinick said:


> Guess that's reasonable but I mean the Sys uses same chassis, but one can argue this is a passive unit, but maybe idk like $75, Idk $99 just seems like a really bad price point, but if people are willing to pay for it at that price then they got business.  I am glad that they don't claim it enhances sound.  It's good that Schiit isn't making dumb claims like a lot of companies are.


 
  
 With regards to SYS: SYS contains only a PCB with the RCA connectors, a dual-gang volume potentiometer, and a DPDT pushbutton switch. Based on that information alone, one could argue that $49 is terribly overpriced. I bought the SYS because I found value in: 1 the aesthetics of matching my modi and magni, 2 the steel chassis construction, 3 the quality of the component choice and assembly---the volume knob gives a good range with a sensible taper and good balance, and the switch seamlessly switches between inputs without making audible electronic clicks or pops. If there was a competing product at the same price or lower, I couldn't find it. (I'd be in the market for a second, especially if there are more switchable inputs/outputs at the same or lower price)
  
 I won't be buying a WYRD because I don't have power delivery and my USB 2.0 ports work correctly with Modi without glitches or artifacts (not true with my USB 3.0 ports). $99 is not something I will spend on a product that addresses issues I don't have. However, if I couldn't use my USB 2.0 ports with modi and only had the glitchy USB 3.0 ports that do artifact OR if I heard anything more than the completely black background because of computer power supply noise issues (think laptop, where the computer's USB or power delivery issues cannot be easily fixed), I would be inclined to pay $99 for a product specifically designed to address those issues for my usb-powered DAC. This is especially true when the alternate solution would be to try products _not_ specifically designed with those issues in mind (power supply delivery, non glitchy usb asynch streaming) for 25% or more of the price (and that typically cannot be returned to the store after breaking the seal unless they actually don't work with the data devices they're intended for). I'd rather save my time and potentially one or two nonreturnable purchases at a significant fraction of the price and pay the extra 75 or less to get a product specifically for the task (and with superior aesthetics and build quality, matching the associated devices).
  
 I realize that 99 is a lot for a single port USB hub. (technically it's not a hub, it's a repeater. no?) 
 Is $99 a lot for the tool designed specifically to address your audio system's shortcomings? Especially with the added splash of luxury (if you're into that sort of thing)?
  
 When your system has no audible artifacts from your USB-attached/powered DAC, adding a WYRD is a $99 charity donation to Schiit audio. 
  
 So, there you have it. I just wrote a half-page post defending the purchase of a product that seems to be the source of some audio system mysticism and which I do not own, do not need, and do not want. I must be a biased Schiit fanboy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

wildcatsare1 said:


> How are you liking that Wyrd, beautiful Schiit Stack!!!


 
  I'm pleased with the WYRD, although I doubt most people will need it/benefit from it. I personally got it because I run a pretty high end custom computer with dual r9 290x in crossfire (overclocked to 1.1ghtz each) and I found during games they were polluting the USB bus and during quiet passages I could hear some electrical noise. Now that I added the WYRD that is all gone.
  
 When I first added it, I thought it improved the sound, but I think that was just in my head.


----------



## StanD

oicwutudidthar said:


> I'm pleased with the WYRD, although I doubt most people will need it/benefit from it. I personally got it because I run a pretty high end custom computer with dual r9 290x in crossfire (overclocked to 1.1ghtz each) and I found during games they were polluting the USB bus and during quiet passages I could hear some electrical noise. Now that I added the WYRD that is all gone.
> 
> When I first added it, I thought it improved the sound, but I think that was just in my head.


 
 That's a perfect application for the Wyrd. I'll agree that the SQ improvements, other than less noise, are in one's imagination. It's important to be aware of what's there, or not.
 You must have a serious power supply in your PC to run the Video hardware. Which CPU are you using? Is it overclocked and if so to what freq?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

stand said:


> That's a perfect application for the Wyrd. I'll agree that the SQ improvements, other than less noise, are in one's imagination. It's important to be aware of what's there, or not.
> You must have a serious power supply in your PC to run the Video hardware. Which CPU are you using? Is it overclocked and if so to what freq?


 
  
 4790k @ 4,8 ghtz 
  
 power supply is coolermaster v1000


----------



## CJs06

oicwutudidthar said:


> 4790k @ 4,8 ghtz
> 
> power supply is coolermaster v1000


Very nice. Glad to see the Wyrd (the end all be all of all USB hubs) solved your issue.


----------



## StanD

oicwutudidthar said:


> 4790k @ 4,8 ghtz
> 
> power supply is coolermaster v1000


 
 Not exactly the typical pedestrian PC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I don''t know if you mentioned it and I missed it, but which DAC are you using?


----------



## OICWUTUDIDTHAR

the gungnir from schiit of course


----------



## StanD

oicwutudidthar said:


> the gungnir from schiit of course


 
 If you mentioned another brand in this thread you might catch some Schiit.


----------



## KLJTech

There's NO WAY that the SYS or Wyrd should be considered "overpriced" at by anyone in THIS hobby. Schiit Audio has made their name in this business by offering great products for incredibly low prices when compared to most of the competition. Pick up a copy of Stereophile or The Absolute Sound and check out the prices on most audio gear and you'll see that both of these items should be considered bargains if you require either one of them.


----------



## CharlesC

kljtech said:


> There's NO WAY that the SYS or Wyrd should be considered "overpriced" at by anyone in THIS hobby. Schiit Audio has made their name in this business by offering great products for incredibly low prices when compared to most of the competition. Pick up a copy of Stereophile or The Absolute Sound and check out the prices on most audio gear and you'll see that both of these items should be considered bargains if you require either one of them.


 

 You may be right, but buying a $100 power supply for a $100 DAC seems kind of wyrd to me.


----------



## jeremy205100

charlesc said:


> You may be right, but buying a $100 power supply for a $100 DAC seems kind of wyrd to me.


 
 I have to second his opinion. If you are having USB issues with the Modi and have a Mac, I'd do optical out through the headphone port and use the Modi optical.


----------



## CharlesC

jeremy205100 said:


> ....... I'd do optical out through the headphone port and use the Modi optical.


 
 That's a good idea.  It would mean not using an iPhone but that may be worth it.


----------



## jeremy205100

charlesc said:


> That's a good idea.  It would mean not using an iPhone but that may be worth it.


 
 Honestly, and no offense to anyone that does, I just can't imagine why someone would want to use desktop DACs and headphone amplifiers with an iPhone. When on the go, and benefit you're getting in sound will likely be destroyed by noise and your lack of focus. That's why a decent pair of IEMs is all that's needed for on the go, in my opinion. I'd rather invest in a home setup that will allow me to better appreciate the benefits.


----------



## CharlesC

jeremy205100 said:


> Honestly, and no offense to anyone that does, I just can't imagine why someone would want to use desktop DACs and headphone amplifiers with an iPhone. When on the go, and benefit you're getting in sound will likely be destroyed by noise and your lack of focus. That's why a decent pair of IEMs is all that's needed for on the go, in my opinion. I'd rather invest in a home setup that will allow me to better appreciate the benefits.


 

 I like to have my listening equipment set up on a table next to a comfortable chair.  Plugging in the iPhone and listening to ALAC files without the hassle of setting up the laptop (likely on the floor) is the benefit for me.  It's not for on the go, it's for convenience.
  
 FWIW, I always think it's odd when I see anyone listening to music at a desk.


----------



## KLJTech

charlesc said:


> You may be right, but buying a $100 power supply for a $100 DAC seems kind of wyrd to me.


 
  
 Its not a $100 power supply, according to Schiit Audio it isolates your USB DAC from the noisy USB power coming from your computer, and provides a stable, precise crystal oscillator to repeat the USB 2.0 packets.
The Wyrd is powered by a ​low-noise linear power supply 
 (unlike most wall warts) and very high quality voltage regulators. 
  
In other words, in provides a better/cleaner signal to your DAC. 
  
 Of course, its not uncommon for companies that sell DAC's to offer upgraded power supplies, but that's not what Schiit Audio is doing with the Wyrd. I don't know that I'd buy one for a $100 DAC unless I felt that I couldn't improve upon the sound of said DAC without spending significantly more AND I was having issues with drops outs or odd noises via the USB connection. 
  
 I ordered one because _every now and then_ I'm getting odd noises from my speakers or headphones even when no music was playing. I'll be using it with the Gungnir Gen 2 USB and if it takes care of the intermittent noise issue I'll be very pleased with it.


----------



## CharlesC

I'll probably end up getting one too.


----------



## jeremy205100

kljtech said:


> Its not a $100 power supply, according to Schiit Audio it isolates your USB DAC from the noisy USB power coming from your computer, and provides a stable, precise crystal oscillator to repeat the USB 2.0 packets.
> The Wyrd is powered by a ​low-noise linear power supply
> (unlike most wall warts) and very high quality voltage regulators.
> 
> ...


 
 There's a difference between buying one for a $850 DAC and buying one for a $100 DAC. At least in my opinion.


----------



## fenderf4i

jeremy205100 said:


> There's a difference between buying one for a $850 DAC and buying one for a $100 DAC. At least in my opinion.




Assuming that there's that big of a difference between a $100 DAC and an $850 one.


----------



## rmullins08

Normally a lurker here but just wanted to chime in on why I am expecting a Wyrd in the mail on Thursday.  My PC is Intel NUC which performs great, except for a few small issues which the Wyrd could potentially take care of.
  
 Noisy USB ports - Tried different cables and ports, but can't get rid of a constant static noise through my DAC (AudioEngine D1 for now).  It's not as noticeable when I'm at higher volumes.  I've also tested those cables with the DAC and my MBP and don't have any noise issues, so I know it's the NUC's ports.
 No Optical Input - While the Wyrd doesn't fix this issue, if it takes care of the issue above, then I won't have to worry about this one.
  
 If the wyrd can take care of my issues, I see a Modi/Magni stack in my future.


----------



## kothganesh

Guys,
I live in India and it's 220V here. Should I be using the Wyrd with a tranny or would an adapter 110-240v take care of the issue?
Thanks


----------



## Draygonn

Schiit Stack has arrived!


----------



## Nada190

draygonn said:


> Schiit Stack has arrived!


 
  
 That's a big ol' pile of Schiit you got there...


----------



## davidflas

Even though I only have one piece of Schiit, I consider myself a total Schitthead. I see more Schiit in my future, that's for sure. Here's a photo of my Gungnir, I swapped the 1st generation USB board for the 2nd generation one as soon as it came out. I love this DAC, when I first heard it, I had a genuine "wow" moment. 
  
 Edit: tried to post an image, don't know how to do it....


----------



## TeskR

davidflas said:


> Even though I only have one piece of Schiit, I consider myself a total Schitthead. I see more Schiit in my future, that's for sure. Here's a photo of my Gungnir, I swapped the 1st generation USB board for the 2nd generation one as soon as it came out. I love this DAC, when I first heard it, I had a genuine "wow" moment.
> 
> Edit: tried to post an image, don't know how to do it....


 

 you can't post image until >100 posts I think mate


----------



## CJs06

draygonn said:


> Schiit Stack has arrived!


 
 All hail! The tower of Schiit!


----------



## superjawes

It's an impressive stack of Schiit, but you could still add Magni, Modi (whichever version is missing), Loki, and sometime in the future, Mani


----------



## Defiant00

teskr said:


> you can't post image until >100 posts I think mate


 
  
 You need either 10 or 20 posts to post images.


----------



## rmullins08

draygonn said:


> Schiit Stack has arrived!


 
  
 Schiiiiiit.  Got my eyes on a similar tower although I was thinking Magni


----------



## TeskR

defiant00 said:


> You need either 10 or 20 posts to post images.


 

 Oh I thought it was 100, fair enough.


----------



## Saraguie

davidflas said:


> Even though I only have one piece of Schiit, I consider myself a total Schitthead. I see more Schiit in my future, that's for sure. Here's a photo of my Gungnir, I swapped the 1st generation USB board for the 2nd generation one as soon as it came out. I love this DAC, when I first heard it, I had a genuine "wow" moment.
> 
> Edit: tried to post an image, don't know how to do it....


 
 I think its 5. If one of us lazy bastards would do a minute search in the head-fi rules posted on this website we'd know the answer. And I do mean me


----------



## BlueMountain

Hi there, 
  
 after reading hundreds of posts all over headfi, trying to find a new amp/dac, i think i am looking for some serious schiit 

 I would like to order the valhalla 2, combined with a modi, but i am not entirely shure wether i should go with tubes, or with a ss amp, like the asgard 2.

 Currently i own a fiio e10. The wolfson dac gives it a tiny bit of warmth, which i doesn't mind at all. Overall i liked it, but always felt, that something is missing, especially in regards to the soundstage, which sounded to me a little bit too narrow. 
  
 My Headphones are HD600, HD555, HD540 Reference II, AKG K272HD, Creative Aurvana Live 2, Shure SE215 and some other (cheaper) stuff. 
  
 My most used headphone is the HD 555, followed by the HD600(for serious listening) and the Shure SE215(mostly for having fun listenig sessions )

 So why i am asking:

 The valhalla 2 has not, if any reviews and not many people seem to own one. 
 How does it sound, compared to other amps eg. the asgard 2 (i know the description of tube sound in general)
 I am also not entirely shure, if i could use my top thre Headphones with the valhalla 2 because of the outputimpedance of the amp.
 Ps. I love the look of the valhalla (2). I always wanted to have a tube amplifier, but not at all costs .

 Regarding the asgard, i've read occasionally, that the asgard 2 has a bright sound signature. 
 Thats one thing i certainly don't want. Is it true? I wouldn't want to have more highs on my hd555 or pretty balanced sounding HD600s.

 Ps. As i am a student i wouldn't like to buy two times , so i hope to find the right amp with your help and support  Thank you very much in advance


----------



## KLJTech

I have the Lyr and the Asgard 2 and use the A2 in my office every day (with Gungnir) and I've never found it to sound bright. I think it sounds accurate...feed it a bad recording and that's what you'll hear, with good to great recording it'll allow your headphones to shine.


----------



## StanD

kljtech said:


> I have the Lyr and the Asgard 2 and use the A2 in my office every day (with Gungnir) and I've never found it to sound bright. I think it sounds accurate...feed it a bad recording and that's what you'll hear, with good to great recording it'll allow your headphones to shine.


 
 +1


----------



## Billheiser

+1 on all the Schiit amps. I have the Valhalla 2 and luv it. Has hi/low gain switch so it will work well with all your headphones. There are a good number of reviews on it, and they're all enthusiastic. *

* (I have not read all the reviews in the universe. Those I have, are all raves).


----------



## BlueMountain

kljtech said:


> I have the Lyr and the Asgard 2 and use the A2 in my office every day (with Gungnir) and I've never found it to sound bright. I think it sounds accurate...feed it a bad recording and that's what you'll hear, with good to great recording it'll allow your headphones to shine.


 
  


billheiser said:


> +1 on all the Schiit amps. I have the Valhalla 2 and luv it. Has hi/low gain switch so it will work well with all your headphones. There are a good number of reviews on it, and they're all enthusiastic. *
> 
> * (I have not read all the reviews in the universe. Those I have, are all raves).


 
 Thank you very much to both of you  Great to hear, that the valhalla 2 will work well with all my headphones, and that asgard 2 performs very well aswell . Makes the decision even harder^^ 

 Which one would you suggest more?

 Ps: Could you pls send me a couple of reviews about the valhalla 2?  I already read the thread about the owners thread of the valhalla 2 but there were, on my last check "only" previews available. 

 EDIT:  @ StandD thank you very much aswell


----------



## davidflas

saraguie said:


> I think its 5. If one of us lazy bastards would do a minute search in the head-fi rules posted on this website we'd know the answer. And I do mean me




I looked up the rules, and I'll need to make 10 posts before I can post an image. I guess I'll have to try to find something meaningful to say.


----------



## rmullins08

Got my wyrd today.  Unfortunately didn't sort out my usb problems.  I've got noise going through to the headphones or speakers even with the Wyrd off.


----------



## StanD

rmullins08 said:


> Got my wyrd today.  Unfortunately didn't sort out my usb problems.  I've got noise going through to the headphones or speakers even with the Wyrd off.


 
 What kind of noise? Maybe you have a ground loop.


----------



## rmullins08

stand said:


> What kind of noise? Maybe you have a ground loop.


 
  
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25125/1407972385184.wav  this is a recording I just did of the noise I am getting out of my JBL LSR305s.
  
 My current setup is an Intel NUC  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-d54250wykh.html
 USB -> Wyrd -> AudioEngine D1 -> Hosa RCA -> 1/4" to LRS305
                                          \_> V-Moda M100
  
 The sound recorded above is actually audible even with listening through to the M100s which turns off the RCA outputs.  There is audible noise in the headphones when not listening to music as well.
  
 The noise isn't that noticeable when you are listening to music, except at quieter parts.


----------



## rmullins08

rmullins08 said:


> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25125/1407972385184.wav  this is a recording I just did of the noise I am getting out of my JBL LSR305s.
> 
> My current setup is an Intel NUC  http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/nuc-kit-d54250wykh.html
> USB -> Wyrd -> AudioEngine D1 -> Hosa RCA -> 1/4" to LRS305
> ...


 
  
 Should have said I've got no noise issues when using my rMBP.  Doing some research around certainly looks like a ground loop.
  
 the noise passes through the Wyrd and D1 even when they are both powered off as well.  Stops as soon as I break the chain.


----------



## rmullins08

stand said:


> What kind of noise? Maybe you have a ground loop.


 
  
 Stan,
  
 Thanks.  Your simple question and comment helped immensely.  When I disconnect the Hosa cables from the DAC, that also breaks the loop, and everything works great.
  
 Now to figuring out a permanent solution.


----------



## RickB

rmullins08,
  
 You might try making sure that your computer and audio equipment are plugged into the same powerstrip. I had a ground loop problem that I solved by doing that.


----------



## rmullins08

rickb said:


> rmullins08,
> 
> You might try making sure that your computer and audio equipment are plugged into the same powerstrip. I had a ground loop problem that I solved by doing that.


 
 All in the same UPS.
  
 Although I now realize that some of the ports are Surge only, and the others are Surge and Battery backup.  Will try putting them all into the same protection.


----------



## rmullins08

rickb said:


> rmullins08,
> 
> You might try making sure that your computer and audio equipment are plugged into the same powerstrip. I had a ground loop problem that I solved by doing that.


 
  
 Negative.  
  
 Wondering if this would do the trick http://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-X-Voltage-Filter/dp/B0002E4YI8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9869678-2025751?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1224432808&sr=8-1
  
 Would be great if they made an inverse of this  http://www.usbcondoms.com


----------



## kodger

Did you try a cheetah plug - you plug 3 ins into oneside and ther are two pins on the side to plug into your UPS and this way you disconnect a ground pin


----------



## Zojokkeli

bluemountain said:


> Regarding the asgard, i've read occasionally, that the asgard 2 has a bright sound signature.  Thats one thing i certainly don't want. Is it true? I wouldn't want to have more highs on my hd555 or pretty balanced sounding HD600s.


 
  
 I definitely wouldn't say A2 is bright. You should pick Asgard, and put the money you save over Valhalla towards Bifrost.


----------



## sandab

rmullins08 said:


> Should have said I've got no noise issues when using my rMBP.  Doing some research around certainly looks like a ground loop.
> 
> the noise passes through the Wyrd and D1 even when they are both powered off as well.  Stops as soon as I break the chain.


 
 It's ground noise, but not really the 60Hz you get in a loop.  My guess is an electric motor: fridge compressor, A/C blower or compressor, big fan, vacuum cleaner, or the like.  Not of the small electronic fan variety.


----------



## StanD

rmullins08 said:


> Negative.
> 
> Wondering if this would do the trick http://www.amazon.com/Ebtech-Hum-X-Voltage-Filter/dp/B0002E4YI8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9869678-2025751?ie=UTF8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1224432808&sr=8-1
> 
> Would be great if they made an inverse of this  http://www.usbcondoms.com


 
 I doubt that the Hum-X is going to do anything.
 Try this, for noise diagnostics (as it will not pass audio). With the entire chain connected, disconnect the power cords for the Wyrd and D1. The PC and  Even remove the Wyrd from the chain, if it doesn't help, take it out of the equation. The JBL and PC should be plugged into the same outlet/powerstrip. Sometimes these situations are very difficult to unravel. You might try a gadget as in the below link. They are usually a coupling transformer and cheap ones have poor SQ, I'll bet that the one below sucks, but may be useful for diagnosing the problem.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214
 That JBL looks like it sounds really good, I hope you get this straightened out soon.


----------



## Saraguie

davidflas said:


> I looked up the rules, and I'll need to make 10 posts before I can post an image. I guess I'll have to try to find something meaningful to say.


 
 I come to Boynton Beack 4-6 times a year to see my folks. Maybe we can do a mini-meet?


----------



## rmullins08

sandab said:


> It's ground noise, but not really the 60Hz you get in a loop.  My guess is an electric motor: fridge compressor, A/C blower or compressor, big fan, vacuum cleaner, or the like.  Not of the small electronic fan variety.


 
  
 Gotcha.  The A/C unit in my room is probably on that same circuit, although I did turn it off for the purpose of recording the noise.
  
  


stand said:


> I doubt that the Hum-X is going to do anything.
> Try this, for noise diagnostics (as it will not pass audio). With the entire chain connected, disconnect the power cords for the Wyrd and D1. The PC and  Even remove the Wyrd from the chain, if it doesn't help, take it out of the equation. The JBL and PC should be plugged into the same outlet/powerstrip. Sometimes these situations are very difficult to unravel. You might try a gadget as in the below link. They are usually a coupling transformer and cheap ones have poor SQ, I'll bet that the one below sucks, but may be useful for diagnosing the problem.
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214
> That JBL looks like it sounds really good, I hope you get this straightened out soon.


 
  
 The D1 is USB powered.  The noise was there before the Wyrd, and you could actually hear it starting before the USB connection was completely made between the PC/DAC.  With the Wyrd in, the noise passes through even when it is powered off (and the D1 doesn't show it's powered on)


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

rmullins08 said:


> Stan,
> 
> Thanks.  Your simple question and comment helped immensely.  When I disconnect the Hosa cables from the DAC, that also breaks the loop, and everything works great.
> 
> Now to figuring out a permanent solution.


 
  
 hell yeah Hosa cables


----------



## Billheiser

kodger said:


> Did you try a cheetah plug - you plug 3 ins into oneside and ther are two pins on the side to plug into your UPS and this way you disconnect a ground pin




Actually called a "cheater" plug. I'm not lion.


----------



## kodger

After I wrote it - I saw it as a play on words with ground loop hum and the purr of the cat


----------



## Billheiser

I love to make my cougar purr.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

kothganesh said:


> Guys,
> I live in India and it's 220V here. Should I be using the Wyrd with a tranny or would an adapter 110-240v take care of the issue?
> Thanks


 
 I'm running the Wyrd for weeks on end using a 230 VAC -> 9 VDC adapter. It is feeding my DragonFly DAC. I guess if you stay away from the max load of 1 A towards your DAC, you can repeat this trick. Most DACs have their own power supply anyway and do not draw any current at all. Warranty void and at your own risk...


----------



## magiccabbage

Any news on the Schiit Rag or Ygg since the other thread was closed?


----------



## superjawes

magiccabbage said:


> Any news on the Schiit Rag or Ygg since the other thread was closed?






jason stoddard said:


> *Bonus Post: Schiit Pipeline Update*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> ...


Here's a post from Jason.


----------



## magiccabbage

superjawes said:


> Here's a post from Jason.


 
 thanks


----------



## punchkid

Figured I'd get on the schiit train as well. Ordered the entry level magni and modi combo. And got a pair of Senn HD650s on the way as well.
 Can't wait to get it. Will hopefully be a nice improvement over my current Fiio E07 -> PSB M4U2


----------



## CJs06

^ I hope you'll enjoy the combination, I've always been impressed when I listened to the HD650; plus the Magni/Modi may be all you need, as the saying goes. Welcome to Head-Fi by the way, I'll let someone else finish with the saying


----------



## ejwiles

Should be a nice upgrade, congrats!


----------



## punchkid

Thanks, I am already looking at what I want to get next though. I think this might get expensive fast ^^.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

Which DAC chip will be in the Yggdrasil?


----------



## pcteechur

Schiit Valhalla & Bifrost are ordered, arriving mid week.  Pairing with AKG Q701. Got listening station ready. Just waiting on arrival. May buy some balloons and put in yard.


----------



## wberghofer

pcteechur said:


> Schiit Valhalla & Bifrost are ordered, arriving mid week.  Pairing with AKG Q701.



Please do return and report about your first listening impressions. I don’t like my AKG K701 neither with the Lyr nor with the Valhalla amp, but I think this headphone matches pretty good with the Asgard 2.

In my opinion the Valhalla and the Lyr amps are very suitable for the 600 Ω Beyerdynamic headphones, but not that good for any member of the AKG x7xx family.

Good luck,

Werner.


----------



## Defiant00

mustelanivalis said:


> Which DAC chip will be in the Yggdrasil?


 
  
 One of the main points of the Yggdrasil is that it's not just another DAC built around a standard DAC chip, it's a bunch of their own custom hardware and code.
  
 Although, regardless of that, I think most people here would also point out that what DAC chip something uses really isn't important. What really matters is the overall implementation.


----------



## davidflas

defiant00 said:


> One of the main points of the Yggdrasil is that it's not just another DAC built around a standard DAC chip, it's a bunch of their own custom hardware and code.
> 
> Although, regardless of that, I think most people here would also point out that what DAC chip something uses really isn't important. What really matters is the overall implementation.


 
 That is the impression that I've gotten from all the reading up on DACs that I've done over the last few years. In my experience as the owner of two highly regarded DACs: 1st the Peachtree iDAC, then the Schiit Gungnir, price isn't always an accurate predictor of sound quality. The iDAC was $999, and the Gungnir cost $849 with USB included. In my system, the Gungnir was vastly better.


----------



## sandab

pcteechur said:


> Schiit Valhalla & Bifrost are ordered, arriving mid week.  Pairing with AKG Q701. Got listening station ready. Just waiting on arrival. May buy some balloons and put in yard.


 
 I have a pair of K702's on loan to check them out.  It's billed as a very neutral and transparent headphone, but to my ear they kind of sound the same no matter what I plug them into.  This makes them very easy to drive, but by the same token they top out quickly.  They're pretty good sounding though.  Money permitting, I would strongly recommend a more transparent headphone.


----------



## MustelaNivalis

defiant00 said:


> One of the main points of the Yggdrasil is that it's not just another DAC built around a standard DAC chip, it's a bunch of their own custom hardware and code.
> 
> Although, regardless of that, I think most people here would also point out that what DAC chip something uses really isn't important. What really matters is the overall implementation.


 
 It would be a big surprise to me if the in-house developments would be more than clocking and filtering. In my line of business for example, we stopped making our own ASICs because we simply cannot compete against the specialists who can easily throw 100 or 200 engineers against a SOC solution and still make some profit. Then again, never say never since we do have the Chord Electronics DACs in the shops.
  
 The overall implementation is good by default because we are talking Schiit here. So then the used components start to count. If anyone can name a DAC chip, please share the info.


----------



## magiccabbage

defiant00 said:


> One of the main points of the Yggdrasil is that it's not just another DAC built around a standard DAC chip, it's a bunch of their own custom hardware and code.
> 
> Although, regardless of that, I think most people here would also point out that what DAC chip something uses really isn't important. What really matters is the overall implementation.


 
 I have heard this before, I've also heard that it has close to 18,000 taps. But I can't remember the exact number. I wonder how it will compare to the Hugo's 26,000 ?


----------



## sandab

magiccabbage said:


> I have heard this before, I've also heard that it has close to 18,000 taps. But I can't remember the exact number. I wonder how it will compare to the Hugo's 26,000 ?


 
 As long as they're staggered and don't all operate in lockstep on a single clock...  I can only imagine the noise levels emanating from more than 10000 32-bit adders operating in lockstep.  That would totally destroy a mixed-signal circuit.


----------



## pcteechur

Open to suggestions. I rely on recommendations as I do not have access to any place to listen to any equipment. Read that the Sennheiser HD 650 and Beyerdynamic 600 ohm might be a good fit. Have AKG 240 600 that I bought in 1980,  AKG HD 570, Sony MDR-V6. Absolutely would delight in seeking an open and transparent headphone to work with the Schiit.


----------



## Billheiser

pcteechur said:


> Open to suggestions. I rely on recommendations as I do not have access to any place to listen to any equipment. Read that the Sennheiser HD 650 and Beyerdynamic 600 ohm might be a good fit. Have AKG 240 600 that I bought in 1980,  AKG HD 570, Sony MDR-V6. Absolutely would delight in seeking an open and transparent headphone to work with the Schiit.



I think the k701 & k702 are very open and transparent. However I was not satisfied w the bass response, & enjoy the Senn hd600 more. The Valhalla amps are a perfect match for them (and for the Beyers too). I look forward to trying the hifiman he400i too, expect they will be good w Schiit.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

superjawes said:


> Here's a post from Jason.


 
  
 I'm gonna hold out until schiit releases their phono stage


----------



## Themorganlett85

Ahhhhh I'm just excited for my Valhalla 2, Uber Bifrost and Hd-650s to get here this week. I can't wait.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

magiccabbage said:


> I have heard this before, I've also heard that it has close to 18,000 taps. But I can't remember the exact number. I wonder how it will compare to the Hugo's 26,000 ?




Since the Bifrost and Gungnir are both vastly superior sonically to the Hugo, I think it's safe to say the Yggy will crush the Hugo, except in DSD...


----------



## adamaley

I had a similar problem to you. I have the Gungnir, and a Bottlehead crack feeding my HD-650s. The humming sound, and RF/EMI was unbearable. It only happened with my computer as source. It didn't occur, when I used my laptop or ipod connected to the Gungnir and then to the amp. I purchased the Hum-X device and having my computer connected through it to the mains completely fixed my problem. I tried it on both the amp and Gungnir and no dice. Give it a shot, hopefully it solves your problem also.


----------



## Rem0o

themorganlett85 said:


> Ahhhhh I'm just excited for my Valhalla 2, Uber Bifrost and Hd-650s to get here this week. I can't wait.


 
 Trust me, with that setup, you'll be hooked for a while.


----------



## magiccabbage

wildcatsare1 said:


> Since the Bifrost and Gungnir are both vastly superior sonically to the Hugo, I think it's safe to say the Yggy will crush the Hugo, except in DSD...


 
 You have heard both and have come to that conclusion? I think the Hugo sounds great. I do hope the Ygg sounds better but will have to wait and see when it comes out.


----------



## Themorganlett85

My Schiit will be here Friday, hopefully my Hd-650s will be here around the same time.


----------



## punchkid

nice, I am also waiting for a HD650 and the magni/modi.
 What schiit did you get?


----------



## rmullins08

My schiit should be here by tomorrow (was hoping today based on my last order).
  
 Reference    MAGNI+MODI+SYS+PUSB
  
 Last fedex update was friday morning when it left California.  Was hoping to wake up to an On the Truck for Delivery status.


----------



## fenderf4i

rmullins08 said:


> My schiit should be here by tomorrow (was hoping today based on my last order).
> 
> Reference    MAGNI+MODI+SYS+PUSB
> 
> Last fedex update was friday morning when it left California.  Was hoping to wake up to an On the Truck for Delivery status.


 
  
  
  
 That's quite a nice haul! You will love it!


----------



## rmullins08

fenderf4i said:


> That's quite a nice haul! You will love it!


 
  
 I'm very excited. Got the Wyrd last week so will have either a 2x2 or 4x2 Schiit stack with the Grado SR325e's and JBL LRS305s.
  
 Decided to give up on my quest to sort out my power issues on my desktop and will just use the rMBP for my music listening. What program do you use to listen to music on your iMac?


----------



## Themorganlett85

punchkid said:


> nice, I am also waiting for a HD650 and the magni/modi.
> What schiit did you get?


 

 I got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost.


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> I got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost.


 
 Should have got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost, that combo makes people happy.


----------



## Themorganlett85

I'm beyond excited for it to get here. This will be my first foray into the whole audiophile scene, God knows I've spent enough time on this website reading about it.


----------



## sandab

billheiser said:


> Should have got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost, that combo makes people happy.


 
 Indeed!  Love it!


----------



## madwolfa

http://www.head-fi.org/t/731216/oh-schiit-its-the-end-of-the-world-announcing-ragnarok
  
 http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok
  
 !


----------



## rmullins08

billheiser said:


> Should have got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost, that combo makes people happy.


 
  
 I've already resigned myself mentally that I will eventually decide to move the Modi/Magni combo to the office to upgrade the home setup to bifrost/valhalla


----------



## gmahler2u

WOW Schiit Rag has land it!!
  
 Very tempting to order beta version....


----------



## Zojokkeli

madwolfa said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/731216/oh-schiit-its-the-end-of-the-world-announcing-ragnarok
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok
> 
> !


 
  
 Schiit just got real!


----------



## madwolfa

gmahler2u said:


> WOW Schiit Rag has land it!!
> 
> Very tempting to order beta version....


 
  
 And grab it to the meet, lol.


----------



## fenderf4i

rmullins08 said:


> I'm very excited. Got the Wyrd last week so will have either a 2x2 or 4x2 Schiit stack with the Grado SR325e's and JBL LRS305s.
> 
> Decided to give up on my quest to sort out my power issues on my desktop and will just use the rMBP for my music listening. What program do you use to listen to music on your iMac?




I like Audirvana the best so far, followed by Bitperfect. I found Amarra to be too buggy and clunky, especially for its cost.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

60w @ 8ohms is pretty much perfect for most bookshelf speakers. Can the SE outs be used for a subwoofer? I'm just curious even though I will not be buying one


----------



## gmahler2u

madwolfa said:


> And grab it to the meet, lol.


 
 I WISH BRO!! Too many bills!


----------



## Byronb

Damn that Schiit is awesome!!!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/731216/oh-schiit-its-the-end-of-the-world-announcing-ragnarok
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok
> 
> !


 
 Oh Snap, they've outdone themselves. Hold it, they've outdone everyone.


----------



## Billheiser

rmullins08 said:


> I'm very excited. Got the Wyrd last week so will have either a 2x2 or 4x2 Schiit stack with the Grado SR325e's and JBL LRS305s.
> 
> Decided to give up on my quest to sort out my power issues on my desktop and will just use the rMBP for my music listening. What program do you use to listen to music on your iMac?


 
 Amarra Hi-Fi.  Like it, integrates w/ iTunes but improves sound and handles higher sample rates too.  $49 now I think.


----------



## rmullins08

rmullins08 said:


> My schiit should be here by tomorrow (was hoping today based on my last order).
> 
> Reference    MAGNI+MODI+SYS+PUSB
> 
> Last fedex update was friday morning when it left California.  Was hoping to wake up to an On the Truck for Delivery status.


 
  
 I've got a schiity delivery waiting for me at home.  I know what I am doing for my lunch break...hunger be damned.


----------



## Tuco1965

rmullins08 said:


> I've got a schiity delivery waiting for me at home.  I know what I am doing for my lunch break...hunger be damned.


 
 Yeah nothing like the smell of fresh Schiit for lunch.


----------



## rmullins08

tuco1965 said:


> Yeah nothing like the smell of fresh Schiit for lunch.


 
  
 Pardon the terrible phone quality pics and messy desk.


----------



## gmahler2u

rmullins08 said:


> Pardon the terrible phone quality pics and messy desk.


 
 IT's Awesome dude!!  Congrates!!
 It's freaking awesome!!  
  
 cheers


----------



## Tuco1965

Definitely looking good there!


----------



## Phonelaf

Hi Guys,
  
 I´m planning to buy a new DAC to work with my Lyr 2.
 At the Moment I´m using a HRT-Microstreamer.
 What do you think I should buy? The Bifrost or the Gungnir?
 I also have an eye on the Resonessence Labs Concero HD.
 Which one will be the best choice.
  
 Regards
 Olaf


----------



## Wildcatsare1

phonelaf said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I´m planning to buy a new DAC to work with my Lyr 2.
> At the Moment I´m using a HRT-Microstreamer.
> ...




Olaf,

I am using the Wyrd>Bifrost>Lyr 2>HE560/Alpha Dogs, and it Ida wonderful combination, highly recommended. With that said, if you have the € for a Gungnir then by all means get it, great DAC.


----------



## ab initio

wildcatsare1 said:


> Olaf,
> 
> I am using the Wyrd>Bifrost>Lyr 2>HE560/Alpha Dogs, and it Ida wonderful combination, highly recommended. With that said, if you have the € for a Gungnir then by all means get it, great DAC.


 

 Isn't the principle advantage of the Gungnir over the Bifrost (balanced outputs) lost without a balanced headphone amplifier? The Uber Bifrost has inherited the analog section design principles from Gungnir anyways, so the Gungnir over Bifrost seems mostly pointless unless you want a BNC input and don't want to use an RCA-BNC adapter.
  
 Of course, if you want a balanced amp in the future, then Gungnir starts to look like the smarter option....
  
  
 Cheers


----------



## jexby

phonelaf said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I´m planning to buy a new DAC to work with my Lyr 2.
> At the Moment I´m using a HRT-Microstreamer.
> ...


 
  
 Olaf,

 last year my setup was:  iMac-->Bifrost Uber-->Lyr-->HE-500.
  
 I liked it in general but
 1) noise floor of Lyr wasn't exactly the quietest
 2) without the JK Audio Pureformer in the RCA chain, had some hum (ground loop or other) that bugged me.
 3) was never going to use the other 2 inputs on Bifrost besides USB.
  
 so, sold Bifrost- went to Concero HD for a few reasons.  smaller form factor, no AC power, no hum into Lyr even without JK Pureformer.
 DSD playback, superb clarity and resolution. a couple DAC filters to play with.
 haven't looked back.
  
 next week I'll be seth with:
 Concero HD-->Lyr 2-->HE-560
 and done.


----------



## adamaley

ab initio said:


> Isn't the principle advantage of the Gungnir over the Bifrost (balanced outputs) lost without a balanced headphone amplifier? The Uber Bifrost has inherited the analog section design principles from Gungnir anyways, so the Gungnir over Bifrost seems mostly pointless unless you want a BNC input and don't want to use an RCA-BNC adapter.
> 
> Of course, if you want a balanced amp in the future, then Gungnir starts to look like the smarter option....
> 
> ...


 
 The benefits of the Gungnir over the Uber-Bifrost are not only limited to the balanced outputs. It's simply a better sounding DAC.


----------



## StanD

adamaley said:


> The benefits of the Gungnir over the Uber-Bifrost are not only limited to the balanced outputs. It's simply a better sounding DAC.


 
 Have you A/B'd them side by side?


----------



## adamaley

A/B'd? I've heard them both, not at the same time, and chose to purchase the Gungnir. However, don't take my subjective word for it. Simply read up on the Schiit website and Gungnir thread, and you will find that there are more improved differences than simply balanced outs over the Bifrost Uber USB. I'm simply trying to point out that steering someone away from the Gungnir by claiming its only advantage is balanced outs is misleading. IMHO.


----------



## KLJTech

I seriously doubt that you can go wrong with either DAC yet the Gungnir is a hardware balanced design with two AKM DAC's rather than one and is a more advanced design. Will that matter to you in your system? Only you can say for sure. 
  
 According to Schiit Audio's website: So this is two Bifrost DAC/Analog stages in a box?
No. The analog stage is considerably more advanced in Gungnir, with better open-loop bandwidth, true differential summing, and DC-coupled output, as well as 160% higher voltage rails. The Gungnir offers the world’s most advanced Adapticlock™ clock regeneration system. 
  
Have I compared it to the Bifrost? No, and I have no doubt that the Biforst if a wonderful DAC. I can truthfully state that I enjoyed the Gungnir Gen 2 USB more than my Bryston BDA-1 and the Benchmark DAC1 USB and for the cost difference I find that rather impressive. 
  
Best of luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## ab initio

adamaley said:


> The benefits of the Gungnir over the Uber-Bifrost are not only limited to the balanced outputs. It's simply a better sounding DAC.


 
  


adamaley said:


> A/B'd? I've heard them both, not at the same time, and chose to purchase the Gungnir. However, don't take my subjective word for it. Simply read up on the Schiit website and Gungnir thread, and you will find that there are more improved differences than simply balanced outs over the Bifrost Uber USB. I'm simply trying to point out that steering someone away from the Gungnir by claiming its only advantage is balanced outs is misleading. IMHO.


 
  
  
 Explain?
  
 I never spoke in absolute terms. I am completely correct that currently the biggest differentiator between the Uber Bifrost and the Gungnir is balanced operation.
  
 The only other practical difference in functionality stems from what inputs and output are available and the form factor.
  
 While technologically interesting, the fancy clocking in Gungnir is either 1) irrelevant to asynch USB or 2) fixing a problem in the upstream SPDIF device.
   
I am not trying to steer anybody one way or another to any product. I was just trying to put the relevant information out there regarding the pros/cons/actual differences between the two DACs. I even argued both sides of the case! pro for Bifrost: it is basically the same DAC as gungnir but single-ended. pro for Gungnir: it is balanced and makes a good choice for future upgrades.

  
 Perhaps you can elaborate on how you came to believe that Gungnir is simply a better sounding DAC?
  
 Cheers


----------



## adamaley

ab initio said:


> Explain?
> 
> I never spoke in absolute terms. I am completely correct that currently the biggest differentiator between the Uber Bifrost and the Gungnir is balanced operation.
> 
> ...


 
 You're the man.


----------



## ab initio

kljtech said:


> I seriously doubt that you can go wrong with either DAC yet the Gungnir is a hardware balanced design with two AKM DAC's rather than one and is a more advanced design. Will that matter to you in your system? Only you can say for sure.
> 
> According to Schiit Audio's website: So this is two Bifrost DAC/Analog stages in a box?
> No. The analog stage is considerably more advanced in Gungnir, with better open-loop bandwidth, true differential summing, and DC-coupled output, as well as 160% higher voltage rails. The Gungnir offers the world’s most advanced Adapticlock™ clock regeneration system.
> ...


 
  
 If I recall correctly the


> "So this is two Bifrost DAC/Analog stages in a box?
> No. The analog stage is considerably more advanced in Gungnir,"


 
 bit was written before Bifrost received the Uber upgrade. See Schiit's description:


> *Bifrost Uber: Even More Impressive Performance*
> Order the Bifrost Uber option, and you get a discrete analog stage based on the more advanced Gungnir DAC, with a sophisticated topology that improves sonic and measured performance, and a DC servo to eliminate capacitors in the signal path. Not that the base Bifrost is any slouch—it’s frequently been compared to DACs that cost 3-8x as much.


 
  
  
 What inputs do you use on your Gungnir?
  
 Cheers
  


adamaley said:


> You're the man.


 
 Thx bro


----------



## adamaley

ab initio said:


> If I recall correctly the
> bit was written before Bifrost received the Uber upgrade. See Schiit's description:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I should have said that it's simply a better sounding DAC *IMO. *I don't wish to get into A/B, double blind, objective arguments at all. I just don't want someone to not look into obtaining enhanced sound due to misinformation. I use the USB connection on my Gungnir and am currently auditioning the Wyrd as well to see if it improves performance. It sure does for my laptop, which was totally useless prior. I am still debating whether it does so for my main PC source. All the best.


----------



## StanD

If one doesn't experience jitter on their Bifrost the Gungnir's adapticlock does nothing. You will not have jitter issues with the Bifrost unless you have exceptionally bad connections.. Specwise they are the same, comparing to the Uber option, both far better than any human being can perceive. If one doesn't need balanced I/O there's no harm in going upscale, other than to one's wallet.


----------



## jchandler3

One thing Schiit's site says is that the Gungnir has "60% higher voltage rails" than the Bifrost, but (1) is that negated by the über upgrade and (2) would that make a huge difference? These are honest questions, I'm not claiming to know anything...
  
 That being said, I agree with @ab initio. That dude knows his stuff about DACs. Furthermore, I have the Gungnir and the Modi, and while I *love* the Gungnir and have no regrets buying it, the difference between it and the Modi are slim. Maybe a big difference in relative terms, but in absolute, we're splitting hairs here. I don't think you'd be "missing out" with the Bifrost. I only bought the Gungnir for future balanced use.


----------



## KLJTech

I use Gungnir's USB input in my office system and the BNC input in my Den. 
  
*As I said, you can't go wrong with either DAC. * I also said: Have I compared it to the Bifrost? No, and I have no doubt that the Biforst if a wonderful DAC.
  
 Everything sounds the same anyway. Yada Yada Yada...
  
 Contact Mr. Mike Moffat, I'm sure he'll tell you that they're both exactly the same DAC except for the XLR output and no human ears could ever hear the difference between the two.


----------



## Themorganlett85

ZOMG my Schiit will be here tomorrow I'm kind of freaking out at the moment hell I've even had dreams about them and how awesome they're going to sound. My wife doesn't seem to think it's going to sound any different but what does she know? Once I get my proverbial feet wet with the Valhalla 2 and Uber Bifrost I'm going to start saving up for the Audeze LCD2, the Mjolnir, and the Gungnir for the magically balanced experience.


----------



## NinjaHamster

fenderf4i said:


> I like Audirvana the best so far, followed by Bitperfect. I found Amarra to be too buggy and clunky, especially for its cost.


 
 I'd agree with that. I think Amarra sounds the best (with PCM), but Audirvana Plus sounds very good too (and MUCH better than Amarra on DSD files). Audirvana is stable, cheap and regularly updated. I have used Audirvana since the free version (ages ago) with no complaints. Just recently tried Amarra, and - as I mentioned - I do believe it sounds a bit better (richer, more nuanced and detailed), but it is buggy and HOGS your computer's resources and is very FRUSTRATING to use.  I suggest you download demos of each and see which one you prefer for yourself.


----------



## superjawes

Oops...impulse bought a Modi...


----------



## adamaley

stand said:


> If one doesn't experience jitter on their Bifrost the Gungnir's adapticlock does nothing. You will not have jitter issues with the Bifrost unless you have exceptionally bad connections.. Specwise they are the same, comparing to the Uber option, both far better than any human being can perceive. If one doesn't need balanced I/O there's no harm in going upscale, other than to one's wallet.


 
  


stand said:


> If one doesn't experience jitter on their Bifrost the Gungnir's adapticlock does nothing. You will not have jitter issues with the Bifrost unless you have exceptionally bad connections.. Specwise they are the same, comparing to the Uber option, both far better than any human being can perceive. If one doesn't need balanced I/O there's no harm in going upscale, other than to one's wallet.


 
  
 I am sure you compared the two and came to your conclusions. Cheers.


----------



## ab initio

Just a reminder, the thread title is "Schiit owners unite" and not "Schiit owners untie" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers!


superjawes said:


> Oops...impulse bought a Modi...


 
  
 Awesome, usb or optical?


----------



## superjawes

ab initio said:


> Awesome, usb or optical?


Opticalz so I can use my sound card, too.


----------



## rmullins08

superjawes said:


> Oops...impulse bought a Modi...


 
 The fact that something as awesome as a Modi is cheap enough to be in the impulse buy category is awesome.


----------



## Byronb

rmullins08 said:


> The fact that something as awesome as a Modi is cheap enough to be in the impulse buy category is awesome.


 
 +1


----------



## FangJoker

Is the warranty transferable?


----------



## jexby

stated on their website.
 no.


----------



## FangJoker

jexby said:


> stated on their website.
> no.


 
  
  
 Thanks.  I'll sell them eventually even though I wish I could keep them.  I hate feeling like I'm giving them away when I hardly got to use them.


----------



## Themorganlett85

vegasf1 said:


> Thanks.  I'll sell them eventually even though I wish I could keep them.  I hate feeling like I'm giving them away when I hardly got to use them.


 
 I LOVE your car, just throwing that out there.


----------



## FangJoker

themorganlett85 said:


> I LOVE your car, just throwing that out there.


 
  
  
 Thanks.  It took me 8 years saving for it.  I have always wanted one since my uncle took me for a ride in his when I was 9 years old.


----------



## amnesiac75

I've seen a few post on gungnir vs uber frost and after about 5 months or so since I upgraded from the modi to the gungnir I have yet to use the balanced output or bnc input . I do believe from reviews that the gungnir is a better dac than uber frost even through se outputs but the $330 difference (about 63% more than uber frost so it's not just a no brainer upgrade if your only using se outputs) is something to consider and also don't forget the bifrost takes up less space on your desk. That being said I love the way my valhalla/gungnir combo sounds no doubt an improvement over the modi/valhalla and very much over the modi/vali with my hd 650s but I still have days that I would trade my gungnir for an uber frost and $330.


----------



## LustLoveLuck

Hey guys. Lyr 2 or asgard 2 > alpha dog/400i?

Would there be large Differences in bass texture/extension/impact?


----------



## StanD

adamaley said:


> I am sure you compared the two and came to your conclusions. Cheers.


 
 Yes I have. I brought my Bifrost and cans over to a friend that has the Gungnir. In the world of DAC prices these are both a steal.


----------



## Mark-sf

lustloveluck said:


> Hey guys. Lyr 2 or asgard 2 > alpha dog/400i?
> 
> Would there be large Differences in bass texture/extension/impact?




Not in my opinion. But you will get better sound staging and dimensionality with the Lyr 2 and the right tubes.


----------



## TontonJoK

The difference will be more about tubes coloring the sound Most of the time a SS amp have better impact
I vote for lyr 2 anytime and tubes rolling is great to make you feel like you have a new amp , never heard the asgard tho :rolleyes:


----------



## StanD

tontonjok said:


> The difference will be more about tubes coloring the sound Most of the time a SS amp have better impact
> I vote for lyr 2 anytime and tubes rolling is great to make you feel like you have a new amp , never heard the asgard tho


 
 Personally, I don't feel the need for a new amp once I've got something that sounds right. I guess it's "Different strokes for different folks."


----------



## gmahler2u

Amen to that StanD!  Greatest Statement from audiophile!
 I will remember that!!
  
 Cheers!


----------



## StanD

gmahler2u said:


> Amen to that StanD!  Greatest Statement from audiophile!
> I will remember that!!
> 
> Cheers!


 
 It's been a long hard road to learning to control my impulses when it comes to audio. Now for the rest of my obsessions.....One part of my OCD at a time.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> It's been a long hard road to learning to control my impulses when it comes to audio. Now for the rest of my obsessions.....One part of my OCD at a time.


 
  
 Squeezing an audiophile out of yourself - not an easy task!


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Squeezing an audiophile out of yourself - not an easy task!


 
 No, just trying to put a leash on the beast.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Well my Valhalla 2 and Uber Bifrost came in today but it's not going to do me a lot of good until my headphones arrive. I just got an email from Woo Audio stating that they shipped them out today so hopefully I'll have em Monday or Tuesday at the very latest.


----------



## gmahler2u

Yeah, I just can't unlease the beast!!  Too many schiit i like to get...i like to upgrade my headphone cables, i like to upgrade my tubes to telefunken CCa,  I like to get get schiit balanced amp and dac, I like to get Cav**li schiit....just too many....
  
 I need help....


----------



## StanD

gmahler2u said:


> Yeah, I just can't unlease the beast!!  Too many schiit i like to get...i like to upgrade my headphone cables, i like to upgrade my tubes to telefunken CCa,  I like to get get schiit balanced amp and dac, I like to get Cav**li schiit....just too many....
> 
> I need help....


 
 Sounds like you're knee deep in Schiit, or just want to be. I'm sorry but there is no known cure.


----------



## Themorganlett85

It's so pretty, I can't wait to get it home and really unbox it good. More pictures to follow.


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Even though your new headphones haven't arrived yet, you must have something to use until then. Otherwise you might go mad waiting.


----------



## gmahler2u

stand said:


> Sounds like you're knee deep in Schiit, or just want to be. I'm sorry but there is no known cure.


 
 Thank you sure for your kind encouragement!


----------



## gmahler2u

I forgot about Abyss schiit!


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Sounds like you're knee deep in Schiit, or just want to be. I'm sorry but there is no known cure.


 
  
  


gmahler2u said:


> Thank you sure for your kind encouragement!


 
 Beatting the Schitt out of someone won't work either.


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> Even though your new headphones haven't arrived yet, you must have something to use until then. Otherwise you might go mad waiting.


 

 All I have is a pair of Beyerdynamic MMX300. I might use them or just wait for my HD-650s to bust my audiophile cherry.


----------



## gmahler2u

stand said:


> Beatting the Schitt out of someone won't work either.


 
 My only defense is that Roxanne made me do it...before, I was doing fine, seriously.  Roxanne is the main problem!!


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> All I have is a pair of Beyerdynamic MMX300. I might use them or just wait for my HD-650s to bust my audiophile cherry.


 
 Those aren't junky headphones, use them while waiting or go mad.


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> Those aren't junky headphones, use them while waiting or go mad.


 
 I know but I'm a patient soul so I'll just wait. FedEx says they're going to be here Tuesday.


----------



## Themorganlett85

It's soooooooooooooooooooooooo pretty.


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> I know but I'm a patient soul so I'll just wait. FedEx says they're going to be here Tuesday.


 
 Oy.  It's your call.  But those are good 'phones, and since you know them they'll be a good frame of reference.  Listen to your new Schiit with 'em!  None of my business really, so pay no attention to this.  But holy moly.
  
 Edit:  Once again, pay no heed to this.  Don't even read it.  
  
 P.S.  I'm really hungry tonight so I ordered pizza.  But I won't eat it for a couple more days, I guess.


----------



## Themorganlett85

billheiser said:


> Oy.  It's your call.  But those are good 'phones, and since you know them they'll be a good frame of reference.  Listen to your new Schiit with 'em!  None of my business really, so pay no attention to this.  But holy moly.


 
 I'm sure I'll give in before the weekend is up.


----------



## gmahler2u

themorganlett85 said:


> It's soooooooooooooooooooooooo pretty.


 
 yes, it's pretty indeed!


----------



## ejwiles

You've got more self discipline than a monk if you haven't plugged those headphones in for a listen yet...


----------



## Themorganlett85

I'm like the Dalai Lama of audiophile lol


----------



## jexby

themorganlett85 said:


> I'm like the Dalai Lama of audiophile lol


 
  
 err not if Wolverine and a TMNT are involved....


----------



## Themorganlett85

jexby said:


> err not if Wolverine and a TMNT are involved....


 
 Hmmmm you might have a point.


----------



## kman1211

New Schiit owner here. I just got the Lyr 2 yesterday, burning in nicely and sounds much better than my last amp, the Hifiman EF2A. Much better than the previous Schiit amp I had the Magni, personally wasn't a fan of the Magni.


----------



## TontonJoK

Wish the lyr 2 was smaller to put on my desk


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> I'm like the Dalai Lama of audiophile lol


 
*Butt* the Schiit Pile is calling out to you, "Listen, Listen Listen Listen Listen."


----------



## davidflas

themorganlett85 said:


> It's soooooooooooooooooooooooo pretty.


 
 Someday I hope to have the exact same Schiit stack next to my computer. Being a bit crazy, however, I plan to use the Valhalla 2 as a preamp for my DIY SURE TPA3116 amp and Pioneer SP-BS22LR speakers.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Hey guys I have a two part question. Part 1, how long does it take the Valhalla 2 to fully burn in and part 2 how long for the HD-650s? Thank you in advance for your help.


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> Hey guys I have a two part question. Part 1, how long does it take the Valhalla 2 to fully burn in and part 2 how long for the HD-650s? Thank you in advance for your help.



Depends on who you talk to. Some say 100 hours or more. Some say zero. In my personal/subjective experience, I can't identify a burn-in effect, at least not one that I can separate reliably from my perceptions, power of suggestion, etc. But WHATEVER you conclude, it is a fact that those components will sound excellent from the first moment you start using them. So, enjoy! And if they get even better after burn-in, then there's your free bonus!


----------



## Themorganlett85

billheiser said:


> Depends on who you talk to. Some say 100 hours or more. Some say zero. In my personal/subjective experience, I can't identify a burn-in effect, at least not one that I can separate reliably from my perceptions, power of suggestion, etc. But WHATEVER you conclude, it is a fact that those components will sound excellent from the first moment you start using them. So, enjoy! And if they get even better after burn-in, then there's your free bonus!


 
 +1 thank you


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Depends on who you talk to. Some say 100 hours or more. Some say zero. In my personal/subjective experience, I can't identify a burn-in effect, at least not one that I can separate reliably from my perceptions, power of suggestion, etc. But WHATEVER you conclude, it is a fact that those components will sound excellent from the first moment you start using them. So, enjoy! And if they get even better after burn-in, then there's your free bonus!


 
  
  


themorganlett85 said:


> +1 thank you


 
 Yeah, if you don't have odd expectations, you will not be disappointed or have to wait too long for the fun to begin, Like Bill says, anything extra is a bonus.


----------



## sandab

The tubes are what really matters and brand new, unused tubes need 15 hours or so.  I usually just leave them playing overnight.  However, I suspect Schiit provides matched sets, which means they have to be burned in before matching.  You probably don't even have to run a signal through them, just leaving them on is probably enough - what needs to happen is the getter makes the vacuum near perfect and it needs to be warm to do that.  Maybe there's also some initial evaporation form the cathode and heater that needs to be removed.  Anyone who sells a matched set has to do this initial conditioning before measuring them.
  
 Other stuff, like power caps will improve over time, but it's pretty marginal compared to tubes.


----------



## Themorganlett85

So this is probably a well known thing but holy poopsticks Batman I just stumbled across http://www.audiobot9000.com, it's going to come in VERY handy in the future in helping me pair headphones with amps. Sorry I get excited over little things lol


----------



## Wildcatsare1

themorganlett85 said:


> So this is probably a well known thing but holy poopsticks Batman I just stumbled across http://www.audiobot9000.com, it's going to come in VERY handy in the future in helping me pair headphones with amps. Sorry I get excited over little things lol




No, it is exciting, very, useful site!!


----------



## Themorganlett85

Yeah I was going to try to get a Woo Wa6-SE to go with my LCD-2 but it would appear it don't power them well enough so I'll just get the Mjolnir which is JUST fine cause it's the one I was leaning towards anyway. I'll just have to get my some balanced cables off of Moon-Audio but that day is still a good ways off, well unless them temptation gets too bad


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> So this is probably a well known thing but holy poopsticks Batman I just stumbled across http://www.audiobot9000.com, it's going to come in VERY handy in the future in helping me pair headphones with amps. Sorry I get excited over little things lol


 
 I've found that website to calculate headphone SPL levels incorrectly, for example the results for the HE500 and HD600 are way off. One of the forum members, Rob Robinette has an excel spreadsheet somewhere on head-fi that that is accurate. He has also put an excellent app up for Android called "Headphone Calculator"on the Google Play Store, for free. This app doesn't compare to amps,so that would be our time consuming task.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=appinventor.ai_robinette77.HeadphoneCalculator&hl=en


----------



## Themorganlett85

As long as it gives me somewhat of a ballpark estimate I'll be happy.


----------



## Mark-sf

themorganlett85 said:


> As long as it gives me somewhat of a ballpark estimate I'll be happy.




Besides the outright errors in the specs ( I found 2 with the XM6 and HD700s I own) the calculation does not take into account the power supply capability. So if a manufacturer has not specified ratings at or above the 70 ohms of the LCD-2s the calculation may be significantly off. Overall it is a useful resource.


----------



## madwolfa

mark-sf said:


> Besides the outright errors in the specs ( I found 2 with the XM6 and HD700s I own) the calculation does not take into account the power supply capability. So if a manufacturer has not specified ratings at or above the 70 ohms of the LCD-2s the calculation may be significantly off. Overall it is a useful resource.


 
  
 Also the newest LCD-2s have higher impedance and sensitivity.


----------



## CH23

Hello Schiit fans,

I'm about to dive into schiit's dac/amp/switch, but i want to know if they have a speaker amp. It's for nothing more than just a few 8ohm shelf speakers.


----------



## ab initio

ch23 said:


> Hello Schiit fans,
> 
> I'm about to dive into schiit's dac/amp/switch, but i want to know if they have a speaker amp. It's for nothing more than just a few 8ohm shelf speakers.


 
  
 http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok


----------



## madwolfa

ch23 said:


> Hello Schiit fans,
> 
> I'm about to dive into schiit's dac/amp/switch, but i want to know if they have a speaker amp. It's for nothing more than just a few 8ohm shelf speakers.


 
  
 You're just in time.
  
 http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok
  
 Still in beta, though.


----------



## CH23

madwolfa said:


> You're just in time.
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok
> 
> Still in beta, though.







ab initio said:


> http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok




Sadly i can't get this in europe as of yet. I'll wait patiently.

Importing would rise the price + shipping by 23% and that's a little too much for me right now.

Thanks for this though!


----------



## sandab

It seems to suggest my Valhalla 2 "should have" enough RMS power for a set of LCD-3s... dunno about that.


----------



## madwolfa

sandab said:


> It seems to suggest my Valhalla 2 "should have" enough RMS power for a set of LCD-3s... dunno about that.


 
  
 Modern LCDs are not that hard to drive, really... Still, Valhalla would be less than optimal for that kind of load, I guess.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^I have heard good things about the Valhalla 2 and the 400i, but that is the only Orthodynamic/OTL combo I know to work.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> *Butt* the Schiit Pile is calling out to you, "Listen, Listen Listen Listen Listen."


----------



## Themorganlett85

blackenedplague said:


>


 

 Sweet Jesus this is awesome, I have wanted that fairy dead since 1998


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

themorganlett85 said:


> Sweet Jesus this is awesome, I have wanted that fairy dead since 1998


 
  
 it was sad when it left though


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I've found that website to calculate headphone SPL levels incorrectly, for example the results for the HE500 and HD600 are way off. One of the forum members, Rob Robinette has an excel spreadsheet somewhere on head-fi that that is accurate. He has also put an excellent app up for Android called "Headphone Calculator"on the Google Play Store, for free. This app doesn't compare to amps,so that would be our time consuming task.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=appinventor.ai_robinette77.HeadphoneCalculator&hl=en


 
  
  


themorganlett85 said:


> As long as it gives me somewhat of a ballpark estimate I'll be happy.


 
 The cases I looked at were way off, out of the ballpark.


----------



## superjawes

Maybe you could go give the guy a few pointers in the thread he made here on Head-Fi.


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> The cases I looked at were way off, out of the ballpark.


 

 Well for an audiophile noob like myself it will suffice.


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> Well for an audiophile noob like myself it will suffice.


 
 Well, not in the cases where the calculations or conclusions are wrong.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Well it's not that big of a deal to me since I already know I want the LCD-2 with the Mjolnir. There's not that many more headphones on there that I want besides maybe a few Beyerdynamic ones so it's all good in the proverbial hood.


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> Well it's not that big of a deal to me since I already know I want the LCD-2 with the Mjolnir. There's not that many more headphones on there that I want besides maybe a few Beyerdynamic ones so it's all good in the proverbial hood.


 
 That's fine.  In your case you have a match of great components which apparently the tool agrees with.  In the single example I tried (the good matching of the Valhalla 2 and the HE400i that Wildcatsare1 mentions above), the tool tells me it *won't* work.  But it does.  I'm listening to that combo daily now, & it sounds great (from either of the low or high impedance settings, actually).  The 400i sounds better that way than other amps I have tried with it.  Schitt itself notes that the combo works, too.
 So, the tool is batting zero, for me and my sample size of one.


----------



## Themorganlett85

In other news FedEx sucks for not updating their tracking information. So help me God if my headphones aren't here tomorrow I'm not responsible for my actions.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> That's fine.  In your case you have a match of great components which apparently the tool agrees with.  In the single example I tried (the good matching of the Valhalla 2 and the HE400i that Wildcatsare1 mentions above), the tool tells me it *won't* work.  But it does.  I'm listening to that combo daily now, & it sounds great (from either of the low or high impedance settings, actually).  The 400i sounds better that way than other amps I have tried with it.  Schitt itself notes that the combo works, too.
> So, the tool is batting zero, for me and my sample size of one.


 
 I guess it's not the sharpest tool in the shed. So if one wants to be sure, it's up to doing legwork, the old fashioned way.


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> In other news FedEx sucks for not updating their tracking information. So help me God if my headphones aren't here tomorrow I'm not responsible for my actions.


 
 You trying to make the first page headlines of Head-Fi?


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> You trying to make the first page headlines of Head-Fi?


 
 I was thinking about it, I just want my headphones.


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> I was thinking about it, I just want my headphones.


 
 I know the feeling. I got my HD600's over the counter, no stink'in FedEx. They were on sale at J&R in NYC when they were still open and I worked across the street.


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> I know the feeling. I got my HD600's over the counter, no stink'in FedEx. They were on sale at J&R in NYC when they were still open and I worked across the street.


 
 That's awesome, I absolutely can't wait until I hear them tomorrow.


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> That's awesome, I absolutely can't wait until I hear them tomorrow.


 
 On the other hand, my HE-500's were from Amazon and came by way of an anxious 2 day prime delivery. You can get SMS Text messages from FedEx and wait impatiently like I did. Then there were DACs, Amps, IEMs.........


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> On the other hand, my HE-500's were from Amazon and came by way of an anxious 2 day prime delivery. You can get SMS Text messages from FedEx and wait impatiently like I did. Then there were DACs, Amps, IEMs.........


 
 I wish I would have ordered from Amazon but since they started charging tax I decided to go with Woo Audio and save myself some $  but yes I have a feeling this is going to be a love/hate relationship when it comes to waiting for stuff to be delivered.


----------



## ejwiles

Yeah, waiting sucks.  I got an original Lyr off the forums a few weeks ago.  Got a great deal from a great seller, but I went out of town the day before it was delivered.  I had to wait days knowing it was sitting waiting for me back home.  It was all worth it though...listening now...


----------



## Themorganlett85

Yes I have no doubt I'll be in audiophile bliss tomorrow afternoon and then for the rest of my life.


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> Yes I have no doubt I'll be in audiophile bliss tomorrow afternoon and then for the rest of my life.


 
 You're gonna go mad waiting for your Schiit. Since we're talk'in Schiit, watcha ordering next?


----------



## Themorganlett85

stand said:


> You're gonna go mad waiting for your Schiit. Since we're talk'in Schiit, watcha ordering next?


 
 It's only going to be a little bit longer and I've been staring at my Valhalla 2 and Bifrost since Friday evening so waiting a few more hours won't hurt......too much.
  
 I've not really decided yet, but it's probably going to be the Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm and hopefully that will do me until I can save up for the LCD2, cables and a bigger amp.


----------



## kothganesh

Guys,
  
 you need to live in a far off place like India to truly appreciate the virtue of waiting. With DHL and Fedex no issues. Its 4-6 days. With USPS, can be unto a month. So let me know if you like switching places with me.


----------



## ejwiles

What an evil question...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I know I'm not the worst, but in the last eight months, I've bought the Vali, HD650, Lyr, and a bunch of tubes...Bifrost (or another DAC) is next, then maybe Crack, then...


----------



## sandab

themorganlett85 said:


> Well it's not that big of a deal to me since I already know I want the LCD-2 with the Mjolnir. There's not that many more headphones on there that I want besides maybe a few Beyerdynamic ones so it's all good in the proverbial hood.


 
 Well, I want the LCD-3F.  With Mjolnir or something else suitable.  But I don't want to have to buy both at the same time.


----------



## StanD

kothganesh said:


> Guys,
> 
> you need to live in a far off place like India to truly appreciate the virtue of waiting. With DHL and Fedex no issues. Its 4-6 days. With USPS, can be unto a month. So let me know if you like switching places with me.


 
 Stop whinging, you can chow down on some Ras Malai while waiting.


----------



## kothganesh

stand said:


> Stop whinging, you can chow down on some Ras Malai while waiting.


 
 I was expecting a response along similar lines. Thanks for not disappointing me.


----------



## superjawes

rmullins08 said:


> The fact that something as awesome as a Modi is cheap enough to be in the impulse buy category is awesome.


Price is a plus, yes, but it also means I didn't pay attention to the backorder status >.<

Looks like I'll be waiting a bit longer before I get my new Schiit...


----------



## rmullins08

Damn, must have been a recent change in status.  Was all listed as in stock when I got my USB Modi 2 weeks ago.


----------



## superjawes

rmullins08 said:


> Damn, must have been a recent change in status.  Was all listed as in stock when I got my USB Modi 2 weeks ago.


EDIT: scratch that. I'm getting an optical one, not USB. The latter appears to be in stock.


----------



## rmullins08

superjawes said:


> EDIT: scratch that. I'm getting an optical one, not USB. The latter appears to be in stock.


 
 Nice work on the ninja edit.  Got the e-mail saying I was quoted.  You can blame me all you want though.


----------



## Themorganlett85

THEY'RE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jexby

Bennigans?  really now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 <crank up the tunes!>


----------



## madwolfa

themorganlett85 said:


> THEY'RE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 Eeehaw!


----------



## Tuco1965

Very Nice!


----------



## wahsmoh

I was looking on Amazon at things I can't afford and came across the Schiit Modi. My jaw dropped when I noticed the #1 seller tag for "recording signal converters". Wow Dan great job


----------



## gmahler2u

themorganlett85 said:


> THEY'RE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
 Congrates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
 Now I miss my HD650.


----------



## Byronb

themorganlett85 said:


> THEY'RE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 AWESOME!!!!! Now get to listening...... LOL


----------



## Themorganlett85

Oh that's all I've been doing is listening and it's amazing, I'm totally in love here.


----------



## Draygonn

gmahler2u said:


> Congrates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Now I miss my HD650.


+1 to both


----------



## sandab

themorganlett85 said:


> Oh that's all I've been doing is listening and it's amazing, I'm totally in love here.


 
 Congrats, and enjoy!


----------



## StanD

themorganlett85 said:


> Oh that's all I've been doing is listening and it's amazing,* I'm totally in love here*.


 
 They call it puppy love and those puppies can really sing. You'll be up late tonight.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Stop whinging, you can chow down on some Ras Malai while waiting.


 
  
  


kothganesh said:


> I was expecting a response along similar lines. Thanks for not disappointing me.


 
 I knew not to disappoint you. Now for that Vodka Lassi.
 I'm getting hungry, so I'll be heading out to an Indian Restaurant tomorrow.


----------



## superjawes

rmullins08 said:


> Nice work on the ninja edit.  Got the e-mail saying I was quoted.  You can blame me all you want though.


I realized that you said USB and decided that it wasn't fair to blame you for the Optical shortage.


----------



## Themorganlett85

So I take it the light stays lit up on the Valhalla 2 even when the power is off?


----------



## Billheiser

themorganlett85 said:


> So I take it the light stays lit up on the Valhalla 2 even when the power is off?


 
 No; it goes off eventually, but it takes a while to fade out when you switch off.


----------



## Themorganlett85

billheiser said:


> No; it goes off eventually, but it takes a while to fade out when you switch off.


 
 You're awesome, thank you.


----------



## Billheiser

Thanks!!  About the only thing I don't like about Schitt gear is how bright the LED's are.  I use a product called "Dim-It", little adhesive circles & shapes of dark film, to mitigate that.  About $5 online.  Before I used a bit of post-it note or masking tape, etc, to shade the suckers down.


----------



## BeatsWork

Using a Modi in my car. Is that sufficient for membership?


----------



## Rossliew

beatswork said:


> Using a Modi in my car. Is that sufficient for membership?


 
 May i ask how you hook it up to your car stereo ? This sounds like an interesting set up


----------



## fileid

Sooo the Asgard 2 gets pretty warm and i have the modi on top of it. Am I ok in this configuration?


----------



## StanD

fileid said:


> Sooo the Asgard 2 gets pretty warm and i have the modi on top of it. Am I ok in this configuration?


 
 I wouldn't do that, heat rises. My Asgard 2 sits on top of my Bifrost. Your problem is of the size difference.


----------



## Netrum

You will be fine having the modi on top of the asgard 2.
I do so myself. And i have no issues whatsoever.


----------



## BeatsWork

> May i ask how you hook it up to your car stereo ? This sounds like an interesting set up


 
  


rossliew said:


> May i ask how you hook it up to your car stereo ? This sounds like an interesting set up


 
 Acer Iconia W3 (Windows 8.1) >
 JRiver Media Server (FLAC Library) >
 Modi >
 Aux. In to Lexicon 17 Speaker system
  
 A little quirky but absolutely brilliant with ability to tweak DSP in Jriver
  
*Next:*
 ·        Waiting for adapter to arrive so that I can take HDMI out from tablet and audio from Modi and input via Aux. connection (Supports Ipod composite format)  so that I can mirror display on Car screen  (or maybe go with multiple monitor setup and show different view on car monitor).
  
*Open Issues:*
 ·     -   No optimal skin for Jriver for Tablet and car
 ·     -   Tablet doesn’t reliably go to Sleep when car turned off i.e. should go to sleep when power from car turned off and switching to battery.  Have tried powercfg.exe etc. to diagnose.
 ·     -   When resuming from sleep current song is either very garbled or sped up.  Hitting stop and play fixes but I’m sure there’s a setting somewhere I can tweak.  Buffer?
  
*Solved Issues:*
 ·        Tablet USB port does not provide sufficient power and would lose connection with Modi. 
 o   Using Y adapter to inject 5v USB
 ·        Power adapter would stay on when car turned off
 o   Added diode to USB power cable so no leakage back from tablet
 ·        Horrible alternator whine
 o   All power cables need to go to one port. i.e. Can’t use the lighter outlet in dash and outlet in armrest.


----------



## StanD

netrum said:


> You will be fine having the modi on top of the asgard 2.
> I do so myself. And i have no issues whatsoever.


 
 Heat is an enemy of electronics. one risks future issues.


----------



## Netrum

But my modi does not heat up.
It is barely at room temperature.


----------



## StanD

netrum said:


> But my modi does not heat up.
> It is barely at room temperature.


 
 But the Asgard 2 generates heat which rises up to the Modi above it.


----------



## Netrum

stand said:


> But the Asgard 2 generates heat which rises up to the Modi above it.



Sorry forgot to mention that my modi is on top of my asgard 2.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

stand said:


> But the Asgard 2 generates heat which rises up to the Modi above it.


 
 Nothing really to worry about. Check this out, as an example of components most likely to be affected by temperature:
  
 http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx
  
 3000 hour life rated capacitor?
  
 No. That's at 85 degrees C (or 105, if rated that way.) Try 133,000 hours at 35 degrees C, 66,700 hours at 45 degrees C (average temperature of an Asgard 2 case--not internals). Or, about 45 years at 4 hours per day use at 45 degrees C. 
  
 Heat is not really a factor, until you get into silly (65-85 degree) temperatures.
  
 Bottom line, if we do a 5-year warranty, we expect it to last at least 10. And that's largely governed by the crap lead-free solder we have to use these days. Look up "tin whiskers" for more fun.


----------



## StanD

I hope that's in degrees C. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No wax caps, eh?  I'd still keep things as cool as possible.


----------



## CH23

stand said:


> I hope that's in degrees C. No wax caps, eh? I'd still keep things as cool as possible.




Tape sunglasses to your Schiit, to keep it real cool


----------



## Netrum

jason stoddard said:


> Nothing really to worry about. Check this out, as an example of components most likely to be affected by temperature:
> 
> http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx
> 
> ...



Thank you for reinforcing what i already knew 
BTW, love your products. I recommend them to everyone asking.


----------



## KLJTech

I hated the switch to lead free solder! My lungs miss leaded solder smoke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and high-end RCA's with MUCH higher copper content were already a pain to solder with the heat spreading out so fast and lead free solder (at least the lead free solder I've used) makes it more of a pain in the butt.


----------



## Billheiser

Irreversible brain damage, developmental delays, hearing loss, miscarriages, abnormal sperm, caused by lead poisoning, on the one hand.  More convenient soldering on the other hand.  I guess it's a tie, huh?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Another quick "it ain't no thang" heat story:
  
 When we were in development on Lyr 2, we noticed that the heater transformers ran a good bit hotter than Lyr 1 (about 55 degrees C.) Concerned with their lifespan, we sent one to the transformer manufacturer, who came back to us and said, basically, "This is nothing. What are you worrying about?"
  
 "Well, what are they rated for?" I asked. Figuring it was about 85 degrees C.
  
 "115 degrees C," the transformer engineer replied. 
  
 "For how long?"
  
 "Indefinitely. But we have some customers who need more, so we can do them up to 150 degrees C indefinitely with different insulation."
  
 Yeah. 150 degrees C. That's 302 degrees F. For a transformer. Wow.
  
 Another fun fact: most speaker power amps have a fail-safe at 85-95 degrees C on the heatsinks...and many pro amplifiers run just below that temperature all the time. That's easily 95-105 degrees C at the devices--or about 50-60 degrees hotter than Asgard 2 and Lyr 2.


----------



## KLJTech

billheiser said:


> Irreversible brain damage, developmental delays, hearing loss, miscarriages, abnormal sperm, caused by lead poisoning, on the one hand.  More convenient soldering on the other hand.  I guess it's a tie, huh?


 
  
 Who told you I have brain damage?...it was my wife wasn't it?!
 Always complaining, if its not about my abnormal sperm its going on and on about my brain damage...well these ends are going to solder themselves are they? Wait, what were we talking about?


----------



## Themorganlett85

kljtech said:


> Who told you I have brain damage?...it was my wife wasn't it?!
> Always complaining, if its not about my abnormal sperm its going on and on about my brain damage...well these ends are going to solder themselves are they? Wait, what were we talking about?


 
 HA!!!!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jason stoddard said:


> Yeah. 150 degrees C. That's 302 degrees F. For a transformer. Wow.


 
  
 Warning stickers are already on your amps, correct? I do not remember


----------



## Chozart

Joining the Schiit family here. Got an Asgard 2 and a BiFrost DAC with the uber analog upgrade. This combo is connected to my computer and drives my HiFiMan HE-400 headphones with aplomb. Very nice gear. Simplistic design (this is a HUGE plus) and very well built. They run a little hot, but heck, it's a Class A amp. If you want an air conditioner, go elsewhere.


----------



## madwolfa

chozart said:


> Joining the Schiit family here. Got an Asgard 2 and a BiFrost DAC with the uber analog upgrade. This combo is connected to my computer and drives my HiFiMan HE-400 headphones with aplomb. Very nice gear. Simplistic design (this is a HUGE plus) and very well built. They run a little hot, but heck, it's a Class A amp. If you want an air conditioner, go elsewhere.


 
  
 Great! Welcome to the club.


----------



## Rem0o

chozart said:


> Joining the Schiit family here. Got an Asgard 2 and a BiFrost DAC with the uber analog upgrade. This combo is connected to my computer and drives my HiFiMan HE-400 headphones with aplomb. Very nice gear. Simplistic design (this is a HUGE plus) and very well built. They run a little hot, but heck, it's a Class A amp. If you want an air conditioner, go elsewhere.


 
 Should last you a very long time. Enjoy the music now!


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


>





> something about "wax caps"; silly post won't quote


 
  
 wax caps didn't save the poor satellite:
  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_(metallurgy)#Galaxy_IV


----------



## fileid

Wow. Didn't expect a reply from the main schiit man himself. Thanks for the reassuring answer.


----------



## KLJTech

chozart said:


> Joining the Schiit family here. Got an Asgard 2 and a BiFrost DAC with the uber analog upgrade. This combo is connected to my computer and drives my HiFiMan HE-400 headphones with aplomb. Very nice gear. Simplistic design (this is a HUGE plus) and very well built. They run a little hot, but heck, it's a Class A amp. If you want an air conditioner, go elsewhere.


 
  
 Exactly! I started my quest for better sounding audio components in the late 80's and back then if a company used terms like "Class A" you could be certain that said component ran very warm to hot. Since then I've learned to never trust a so-called "Class A" amp that runs cool to the touch. Bring on the heat from that true "Class A" design Schiit amp...just turn down the AC. 
  
 Of course, an amp doesn't have to be "Cass A" to sound great but it doesn't hurt.


----------



## StanD

jason stoddard said:


> Another quick "it ain't no thang" heat story:
> 
> When we were in development on Lyr 2, we noticed that the heater transformers ran a good bit hotter than Lyr 1 (about 55 degrees C.) Concerned with their lifespan, we sent one to the transformer manufacturer, who came back to us and said, basically, "This is nothing. What are you worrying about?"
> 
> ...


 
 So you're telling me if I want to heat my home with amps this winter, I'll need some hotter Schiit.


----------



## ab initio

stand said:


> So you're telling me if I want to heat my home with amps this winter, I'll need some hotter Schiit.




Maybe just a steaming pile of it?

Cheers


----------



## StanD

ab initio said:


> Maybe just a steaming pile of it?
> 
> Cheers


 
 Very cheeky.


----------



## punchkid

I think I might have to replace my magni with something a bit hotter. The magni doesn't quite have the juice to keep my coffee warm.


----------



## Rossliew

The Magni (and at times, Vali) is a revelation with my HE-500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But, it's not too hot to make it unbearable (unlike the Asgard) LOL


----------



## StanD

punchkid said:


> I think I might have to replace my magni with something a bit hotter. The magni doesn't quite have the juice to keep my coffee warm.


 
 Perhaps a tube amp is called for. They do have heaters.
 Now there's an idea for a new product, a tube powered coffee brewer/heater.


----------



## davidflas

punchkid said:


> I think I might have to replace my magni with something a bit hotter. The magni doesn't quite have the juice to keep my coffee warm.




Speaking of heat issues, since getting my Gungnir a couple of years ago, I've been amused that it runs hotter than my Emotiva mono bloc amps


----------



## crazychile

Hey Guys,
  
 I have a Lyr 2 that I've tube rolled with some old Holland Bugle Boys and Gold Aero's that I had laying around, and the tubes that came with the amp. I can't say that I can hear any difference between them all. I'm using a Modi for the DAC, and AKG K702 headphones. I just ordered a Bifrost Uber USB that hasn't arrived yet. For a source I use a Macbook Pro using Fidelia or iTunes, and all my music files are .wav. I've owned some EL34 based amps in the past on my main system where every tube I changed always made a pretty noticeable difference so I was sort of expecting a similar level of change when I swap tubes on the Lyr 2. Has anyone else experienced this with a Lyr 2? Are there any current production tubes that do make a noticeable improvement?  I don't want to get started on spendy NOS tubes, just wondering about current production stuff.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Defiant00

crazychile said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I have a Lyr 2 that I've tube rolled with some old Holland Bugle Boys and Gold Aero's that I had laying around, and the tubes that came with the amp. I can't say that I can hear any difference between them all. I'm using a Modi for the DAC, and AKG K702 headphones. I just ordered a Bifrost Uber USB that hasn't arrived yet. For a source I use a Macbook Pro using Fidelia or iTunes, and all my music files are .wav. I've owned some EL34 based amps in the past on my main system where every tube I changed always made a pretty noticeable difference so I was sort of expecting a similar level of change when I swap tubes on the Lyr 2. Has anyone else experienced this with a Lyr 2? Are there any current production tubes that do make a noticeable improvement?  I don't want to get started on spendy NOS tubes, just wondering about current production stuff.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 When I got to listen to a friend's Lyr some tubes did make a difference; dunno if they were current vs NOS though. You may want to take a look at the Lyr tube rolling thread.
  
 From my understanding, in general a hybrid amp like the Lyr will be less affected by tube changes compared to a fully tube amp like the Valhalla.


----------



## trick

Just bought a Lyr!   
  

  
 Remember to always put the good Schiit on top of the stack.


----------



## reddog

crazychile said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I have a Lyr 2 that I've tube rolled with some old Holland Bugle Boys and Gold Aero's that I had laying around, and the tubes that came with the amp. I can't say that I can hear any difference between them all. I'm using a Modi for the DAC, and AKG K702 headphones. I just ordered a Bifrost Uber USB that hasn't arrived yet. For a source I use a Macbook Pro using Fidelia or iTunes, and all my music files are .wav. I've owned some EL34 based amps in the past on my main system where every tube I changed always made a pretty noticeable difference so I was sort of expecting a similar level of change when I swap tubes on the Lyr 2. Has anyone else experienced this with a Lyr 2? Are there any current production tubes that do make a noticeable improvement?  I don't want to get started on spendy NOS tubes, just wondering about current production stuff.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



I have used the genalex Gold lions, in my lyr2 , to run my alpha dogs, and they sound great. The bass on the dogs is a bit deeper, the mids have lost the veil of the stock tubes.Furthermore the sound stage is a bit more expansive, more holographic than the stocks.


----------



## kman1211

reddog said:


> I have used the genalex Gold lions, in my lyr2 , to run my alpha dogs, and they sound great. The bass on the dogs is a bit deeper, the mids have lost the veil of the stock tubes.Furthermore the sound stage is a bit more expansive, more holographic than the stocks.


 

 I have Amperex Bugle Boys, so much better than the stock tubes on the Lyr 2, all the complaints I had about the sound of the Lyr 2 are pretty much gone now and a noticaeble improvement with the soundstage.The stock tubes honestly are a bit boring, slightly veiled, has tonality issues, and are brittle sounding in the treble and upper midrange. Both my K712 and DT 150 sound a lot better with the bugle boys. I thought the stock tubes on the Lyr 2 sounded off, and that brittleness.


----------



## ejwiles

I had the same experience with the Bugle Boys in my Lyr, and even more with the 1974 Reflektor SWGP's I got earlier this week.  Amazing soundstage and quite an improvement over stock.  Check out the Lyr tube rollers thread, lots of good info there.


----------



## crazychile

defiant00 said:


> When I got to listen to a friend's Lyr some tubes did make a difference; dunno if they were current vs NOS though. You may want to take a look at the Lyr tube rolling thread.
> 
> From my understanding, in general a hybrid amp like the Lyr will be less affected by tube changes compared to a fully tube amp like the Valhalla.


 

 I scanned the Lyr Tube rolling thread but it was all Lyr V1, and the posts were pretty much all about NOS. Thanks though. Thanks for confirming what I already suspected about hybrid amps!


----------



## kman1211

ejwiles said:


> I had the same experience with the Bugle Boys in my Lyr, and even more with the 1974 Reflektor SWGP's I got earlier this week.  Amazing soundstage and quite an improvement over stock.  Check out the Lyr tube rollers thread, lots of good info there.


 

 I don't think I will be getting anymore tubes for a while. I need to let these bugle boys burn in for a couple weeks of moderate to heavy listening, that's usually how long I noticed it takes for tubes to fully settle in. The biggest thing is that they restored the euphony I dearly missed from my previous tube amp.


----------



## ejwiles

I'm thinking the same thing.  I've found my happy place for a while at least...


----------



## kman1211

ejwiles said:


> I'm thinking the same thing.  I've found my happy place for a while at least...


 

 I think I found my happy place for a while too. The K712's sound so good with the new tubes. I forgot how much I love AKGs when an amp brings out their euphony, I just don't really want to listen to other headphones. I was beginning to wonder why I even liked AKG's so much and the Bugle Boy's reminded me why.


----------



## kothganesh

kman1211 said:


> I don't think I will be getting anymore tubes for a while. I need to let these bugle boys burn in for a couple weeks of moderate to heavy listening, that's usually how long I noticed it takes for tubes to fully settle in. The biggest thing is that they restored the euphony I dearly missed from my previous tube amp.



I've a Lyr I and I stopped with the Bugle Boys. It's been well over a year and a half. YMMV, of course.


----------



## trick

crazychile said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I have a Lyr 2 that I've tube rolled with some old Holland Bugle Boys and Gold Aero's that I had laying around, and the tubes that came with the amp. I can't say that I can hear any difference between them all. I'm using a Modi for the DAC, and AKG K702 headphones. I just ordered a Bifrost Uber USB that hasn't arrived yet. For a source I use a Macbook Pro using Fidelia or iTunes, and all my music files are .wav. I've owned some EL34 based amps in the past on my main system where every tube I changed always made a pretty noticeable difference so I was sort of expecting a similar level of change when I swap tubes on the Lyr 2. Has anyone else experienced this with a Lyr 2? Are there any current production tubes that do make a noticeable improvement?  I don't want to get started on spendy NOS tubes, just wondering about current production stuff.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
  
 To be honest.. I actually cant seem to find a difference of any kind from my fiio E10....(using my q701 and the E10 as my DAC for a true test) other than it gets louder. Maybe the q701 isn't good enough to notice the changes.... or maybe we are suckers. The Lyr is still an awesome amp though. Schiit makes an awesome product. Maybe the tubes need to burn in more?


----------



## Chozart

kljtech said:


> Exactly! I started my quest for better sounding audio components in the late 80's and back then if a company used terms like "Class A" you could be certain that said component ran very warm to hot. Since then I've learned to never trust a so-called "Class A" amp that runs cool to the touch. Bring on the heat from that true "Class A" design Schiit amp...just turn down the AC.
> 
> Of course, an amp doesn't have to be "Cass A" to sound great but it doesn't hurt.


 

 Schiit designed these amps to get hot on the outside on purpose. The entire aluminum casing is a heatsink, dispersing the heat to the environment without burning up the interior (although the parts can withstand much higher temperatures than they endure, even when used for hours). Other (much more expensive) Class A amps have dedicated heatsinks on the back or the sides, which get hot, while the casing of the amp stays cooler.  Schiit could do this too, but it'll make the design more complex, requires more parts (not to mention machined heatsinks), and thus will increase the price. It's the simplicity of Schiit's builds that allow them to produce high quality equipment for reasonable (if not ridiculously low) prices.


----------



## Rem0o

trick said:


> To be honest.. I actually cant seem to find a difference of any kind from my fiio E10....(using my q701 and the E10 as my DAC for a true test) other than it gets louder. Maybe the q701 isn't good enough to notice the changes.... or maybe we are suckers. The Lyr is still an awesome amp though. Schiit makes an awesome product. Maybe the tubes need to burn in more?


 
 The Fiio E10 dac output is kinda bad in my experience and colors the sound a certain way. Lyr at the output just amplifies that same signal.


----------



## sandab

trick said:


> To be honest.. I actually cant seem to find a difference of any kind from my fiio E10....(using my q701 and the E10 as my DAC for a true test) other than it gets louder. Maybe the q701 isn't good enough to notice the changes.... or maybe we are suckers. The Lyr is still an awesome amp though. Schiit makes an awesome product. Maybe the tubes need to burn in more?


 
 My experience with my K702s is they sound very similar no matter what I plug them into, as long as they're adequately driven.  They're super easy to drive, make mediocre recordings or gear with shrill highs sound nice and clean, and just are very forgiving.  They can seemingly conjure a (small) soundstage out of nothing.  But by the same token, you plug them into a half decent amp like the Lyr, Valhalla, or my Matrix M-Stage and they sound more or less the same as plugged into the HP jack on a budget HT receiver.  They sound okay even on the HP jack of m MacBook Pro, though seriously attenuated in the highs.  I have gear where when I plug in the Beyerdynamic T1s it sounds like scratching on a blackboard, yet when I plug in the K702s it sounds... okay.


----------



## kman1211

sandab said:


> My experience with my K702s is they sound very similar no matter what I plug them into, as long as they're adequately driven.  They're super easy to drive, make mediocre recordings or gear with shrill highs sound nice and clean, and just are very forgiving.  They can seemingly conjure a (small) soundstage out of nothing.  But by the same token, you plug them into a half decent amp like the Lyr, Valhalla, or my Matrix M-Stage and they sound more or less the same as plugged into the HP jack on a budget HT receiver.  They sound okay even on the HP jack of m MacBook Pro, though seriously attenuated in the highs.  I have gear where when I plug in the Beyerdynamic T1s it sounds like scratching on a blackboard, yet when I plug in the K702s it sounds... okay.


 

 That's interesting because that's the opposite of my experience with the K7xx series, I found they change quite drastically from amp to amp. With my K712 one thing I really like about them is how much they change when changing dacs, amps, or tubes.


----------



## trick

sandab said:


> My experience with my K702s is they sound very similar no matter what I plug them into, as long as they're adequately driven.  They're super easy to drive, make mediocre recordings or gear with shrill highs sound nice and clean, and just are very forgiving.  They can seemingly conjure a (small) soundstage out of nothing.  But by the same token, you plug them into a half decent amp like the Lyr, Valhalla, or my Matrix M-Stage and they sound more or less the same as plugged into the HP jack on a budget HT receiver.  They sound okay even on the HP jack of m MacBook Pro, though seriously attenuated in the highs.  I have gear where when I plug in the Beyerdynamic T1s it sounds like scratching on a blackboard, yet when I plug in the K702s it sounds... okay.


 
  
 Well thank you for sharing. Im glad Im not the only one. I was beginning to think that everything I read was an exaggeration or made up as far as tube color and increased sound stage are concerned. Can you hear a difference between the the amps on your T1?  lol I agree about the soundstage seeming to come out of no where sometimes. 
  
 Note: High quality, long lasting equipment is worth the  money. The power this provides for the price is awesome. I'm just curious about all of my misunderstandings


----------



## trick

rem0o said:


> The Fiio E10 dac output is kinda bad in my experience and colors the sound a certain way. Lyr at the output just amplifies that same signal.


 
  
 Oh ok, good to know. I guess I was really just expecting coloring from the tubes or soundstage changes. I just realized the irony of spending more money for what should really be considered a flaw from a technical standpoint. lol I guess it is a good thing that I'm wrong.
  
  


kman1211 said:


> That's interesting because that's the opposite of my experience with the K7xx series, I found they change quite drastically from amp to amp. With my K712 one thing I really like about them is how much they change when changing dacs, amps, or tubes.


 
  
 Well maybe the k712 (from your pic) is different. It should be better. Also, as long as you are happy ignore Sandab's and my opinion.  I'll probably try another set of tubes anyways just out of curiosity. I personally would prefer your version to be true.


----------



## Rem0o

trick said:


> *I just realized the irony of spending more money for what should really be considered a flaw from a technical standpoint.*


 
  
 You sir, won head-fi.


----------



## kman1211

trick said:


> Oh ok, good to know. I guess I was really just expecting coloring from the tubes or soundstage changes. I just realized the irony of spending more money for what should really be considered a flaw from a technical standpoint. lol I guess it is a good thing that I'm wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Well maybe the k712 (from your pic) is different. It should be better. Also, as long as you are happy ignore Sandab's and my opinion.  I'll probably try another set of tubes anyways just out of curiosity. I personally would prefer your version to be true.


 
 It does sound different than the Q701 I heard, though many say it's only the pads that makes them different but maybe it's something else as well. I can't say for sure as I haven't really pad swapped them before. It would be worthwhile rolling tubes. Not sure what tubes you are using, but on my Lyr 2 I wanted to replace the stock tubes asap and I'm happy I did. It could also simply be I'm simply sensitive to certain aspects of sound and changes to those aspects may be more drastic to me than to someone else and vice versa.


----------



## davidflas

I finally have enough posts to post a picture! Now everybody can see my Schiit!


----------



## uncola

Do you think schiit will introduce a portable amp soon?  Maybe named after Meili the norse god of travel, whose name means mile stepper?  I just ordered a fiio e11k and realized if schiit made one I'd buy it immediately


----------



## reddog

davidflas said:


> I finally have enough posts to post a picture! Now everybody can see my Schiit!



The Gungnir looks very nice, hope you have a great time jamming to great tunes.


----------



## reddog

uncola said:


> Do you think schiit will introduce a portable amp soon?  Maybe named after Meili the norse god of travel, whose name means mile stepper?  I just ordered a fiio e11k and realized if schiit made one I'd buy it immediately



Yes a Schiit portable amp would be great and I would get one.


----------



## StanD

uncola said:


> Do you think schiit will introduce a portable amp soon?  Maybe named after Meili the norse god of travel, whose name means mile stepper?  I just ordered a fiio e11k and realized if schiit made one I'd buy it immediately


 
 I believe they wan't to avoid products with batteries, so that may never happen. By the way, did you consider getting the E12 instead of the E11K?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

davidflas said:


> I finally have enough posts to post a picture! Now everybody can see my Schiit!


 
  
 I'd like to see your entire stereo build


----------



## uncola

StanD I did think about getting the e12 and the cayin c5 but the e11k is brand new and has a negative gain mode for sensitive iems so I was attracted to it.. not to mention it's so cheap.  If I was going to spend more I'd probably get a portable dac amp.  The portable world is strange.. so little emphasis on power


----------



## StanD

uncola said:


> StanD I did think about getting the e12 and the cayin c5 but the e11k is brand new and has a negative gain mode for sensitive iems so I was attracted to it.. not to mention it's so cheap.  If I was going to spend more I'd probably get a portable dac amp.  The portable world is strange.. so little emphasis on power


 
 The E12 has plenty of power for a portable, bordering on a desktop. How about a MiniMagni?


----------



## davidflas

blackenedplague said:


> I'd like to see your entire stereo build


 
 Ok, here's a quick snap I took of it recently: I can post better pictures if you want.


----------



## NzAudezey

Can anyone point me in the way of instructions/Guide for installing the Uber upgrade in a Gungnir?


----------



## davidflas

nzaudezey said:


> Can anyone point me in the way of instructions/Guide for installing the Uber upgrade in a Gungnir?




You can't install the Uber upgrade in a Gungnir. You can install the second generation USB card in there, if that is what you meant. I did this, and it is a lot more involved than I expected. I was able to successfully do it, taking great care to keep track of all the screws. For liability reasons, Schiit will not provide any help to consumers on installing upgrades. They instead will recommend that you send your DAC to them for upgrading.

Here is what Schiit says on their website regarding self installs of their upgrades:

Please note that by selecting this option, you are saying, "Yes, I am, or know, a competent electronics technician who does not need hand-holding for this installation, and I will not allow an inexperienced person to perform the upgrade, since I understand there are no user-serviceable parts inside."


----------



## NzAudezey

Ahh yes that is what i was referring to, the upgraded USB card, The only downside is im a long way away from Schiit (USA) and it would be $120 USD for shipping and about 2 weeks each way for the time.
  
 Do you feel the upgrade was worth it? Just trying to consider all my options.
  
 Thanks for the assistance.


----------



## davidflas

nzaudezey said:


> Ahh yes that is what i was referring to, the upgraded USB card, The only downside is im a long way away from Schiit (USA) and it would be $120 USD for shipping and about 2 weeks each way for the time.
> 
> Do you feel the upgrade was worth it? Just trying to consider all my options.
> 
> Thanks for the assistance.




I do feel that the upgrade was worthwhile. The upgrade process involves taking apart the case and removing the board entirely. Once you e done that, putting the new card in is easy and quick. My suggestion is to leave yourself plenty of time, be very systematic about it, and have a method for keeping track of the screws and their locations. When putting everything back, be extra careful when aligning the LEDs with their case holes. I consider myself a novice at these sorts of things, and a bit clumsy on top of that, but I had no trouble completing the upgrade.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

davidflas said:


> Ok, here's a quick snap I took of it recently: I can post better pictures if you want.


 
  
 You could easily smash that a together. Those monoblocks are practically made to stack


----------



## Synergist969

Dear davidflas:
  
     I don't suppose you might consider purchasing a Ragnorak...or at least trying one out with that pair of NHT Classic 3's you have?...
  
   Several years ago I too owned a pair, drove them with an original Aragon 4004...more than enough oomph...    ..., however my Aragon is now driving a pair of Lipinski Sound 707's, and I sold my pair of NHT Classic 3's, along with a pair of NHT Classic 4's...(7.1 system, etc,)
  
   The reason I am curious is I really liked the sound out of those little "3's", and IF I knew that the Ragnarok could drive them well, I would pick up another pair of "3's", along with that Schiit statement amp...for a little alternate speaker system...not to mention that it IS a statement headphone amp...lol...
  
 Peace/Namaste,
 T. Kogstrom


----------



## davidflas

synergist969 said:


> Dear davidflas:
> 
> I don't suppose you might consider purchasing a Ragnorak...or at least trying one out with that pair of NHT Classic 3's you have?...
> 
> ...





I would happily buy a Ragnarok, the only thing stopping me is my current economic situation. I can say that my DIY Sure TPA3116 chip amp powers the Classic 3s well, and it puts out about 23 watts per channel. Based on my experience, I would imagine that the Ragnarok would drive them quite well.


----------



## davidflas

blackenedplague said:


> You could easily smash that a together. Those monoblocks are practically made to stack





Quite right, I just think they look cool spaced out like that.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

not when they are on the ground


----------



## Billheiser

I suggest arranging your stereo stuff however the heck you want to.


----------



## Synergist969

Dear davidflas:
  
     Thank you for your input...if less than 30 watts/channel will drive the "3's" well, so long as I am not attempting to fill a barn at concert levels...that will be another check-mark on the "PLUS" side column of that "pro's/con's" decision making analysis...
  
     Hmmm...now wondering how it might drive those little Maggies...the Mini Maggie desktop system, or the MMG's...food for thought...anyone wish to weigh in?  
  
 Peace/Namaste,
 T.A.Kogstrom


----------



## crazychile

> Hmmm...now wondering how it might drive those little Maggies...the Mini Maggie desktop system, or the MMG's...food for thought...anyone wish to weigh in?


 
  
 I've owned several pairs of Magneplanars. 30w /ch is enough if:
  
 1. It's a quality 30 watts. (Class A preferred) AND
 2. The speakers are in a small room or listening near field, AND
 3. You're not trying to play "Live at Leeds" at concert level volumes.


----------



## Synergist969

Dear crazychile:
  
     Thanks for your input/insight...well, yeppers...I would like a pair of Maggies preferably to primarily listen to a cappella choral music, renaissance period, and perhaps "ren." period antiphonal brass music, if not small ensemble and/or solo chamber music.., acoustic/classical guitar...etc...     ...
  
     So, this "fully discrete Crossfet circlotron-style output stage" amp., which remains in class A mode for the first 4 watts, outputs 60 watts at 8 ohms, and outputs 100 watts at 4 ohms, (approx. 167 % increase at 50% the resistance), might just do the music justice...?...in a relatively small room...in nearfield...    ...from what I also read, as one goes "up" in scale with Maggies, i.e., Minnie, MMG, 1.7, 3.7, etc., power demand does not really increase...so, then, might the Ragnarok also drive those gems?  (with the same above parameters being observed)...
  
   Peace/Namaste,
   T.A. Kogstrom


----------



## crazychile

synergist969 said:


> Dear crazychile:
> 
> Thanks for your input/insight...well, yeppers...I would like a pair of Maggies preferably to primarily listen to a cappella choral music, renaissance period, and perhaps "ren." period antiphonal brass music, if not small ensemble and/or solo chamber music.., acoustic/classical guitar...etc...     ...
> 
> ...


 

 I've owned an old Adcom GFA-535II amp for 20+ yrs that is my back-up amp whenever I'm between "real" amps or something is in for service, etc. That amp is rated at 100w into 4 ohms, and I periodically used it on Maggie SMGb, MG10, MG2.5, MG1.6, and MMGs without a problem. Sonically it was lacking but power was adequate for moderate listening levels on rock/pop/punk/alternativein medium-larger sized rooms. My guess is that a Ragnarok would be plenty on any Maggie for nearfield listening.


----------



## ThurstonX

OK, finally read up on the Ragnarok.  Drool-worthy.  Someday I hope to add it to my Stack o' Schiit.  The only questions I have are:
  

How does it stack on top of the poor li'l Bifrost?  I think Schiit needs to build a sexy, matching, folded aluminum schtand under which can go said DAC.
How the hell am I supposed to listen to my 12.1 immersive surround sound schiit with this?? Could be a deal breaker.
Where do the tubes go?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



  
 Hope the public beta testers have a good time.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> OK, finally read up on the Ragnarok.  Drool-worthy.  Someday I hope to add it to my Stack o' Schiit.  The only questions I have are:
> 
> 
> How does it stack on top of the poor li'l Bifrost?  I think Schiit needs to build a sexy, matching, folded aluminum schtand under which can go said DAC.
> ...


 
 Are you asking someone to tell you where to put your tubes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So when are you going to pony up for the Rag?


----------



## BeatsWork

Come on guys.  Get your Schiit together!   (Sorry, really couldn't help myself).


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Are you asking someone to tell you where to put your tubes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fortunately, the Lyr remains gloriously receptive to my tube rolling exploits 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And the Lyr wouldn't go anywhere, even if I had the Ragnarok.
  
 Oh, not any time soon.  Probably not until ver. 3 at least 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  A little drool escaped, that's all.
  
*<insert obligatory Schiit joke here; I'm busy>*


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Fortunately, the Lyr remains gloriously receptive to my tube rolling exploits
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
_Get your Schiit together._
 That OK? Truth is, your Lyr probably does everything you'll need, except fulfill the need to feed one's get more Schiit impulses. For now your wallet and wife won't be getting cross with you. _Let's see how long that's gonna last._


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Thurston, normally I would be happy to comply with your request for an obligatory Schiit joke, but unfortunately with my Hot Schiit Barbecue post I have exceeded my September quota. Please provide a written request, in triplicate, after 10/01/2014, and the aforementioned request of an obligatory Schiit joke will be honored. Have a special day!


----------



## ThurstonX

In case anyone from Schiit is looking in, there's a typo in the manual (http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/ragnarok_manual.pdf)
  
 In the *Controls* section
  
*5* Volume. Turn it up to
 increase volume, turn
 it down before smoke
 comes out of your
 headphones or speakers.
  
*5* should be *4*


----------



## ThurstonX

Creepy stalker post?  Ehhh, whatever.  Blame my love of Google Maps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
*Where the Schiit Hits the Fan*


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Creepy stalker post?  Ehhh, whatever.  Blame my love of Google Maps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like a Schitthouse.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Looks like a Schitthouse.


 
  
 I think if you hope to compete, you'll have to name your company Tommyhaus Audio


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Looks like a Schitthouse.


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> I think if you hope to compete, you'll have to name your company Tommyhaus Audio


 
 That doesn't quite have the same ring to it. How about Monkey House, for a cable business? That can follow its own motif.


----------



## ThurstonX

And you know what they fling around the Monkey House, right?  The *GOOD Schiit*


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> And you know what they fling around the Monkey House, right?  The *GOOD Schiit*


 
 You are certainly on your game today. So which are finding more headtime these days, your 560's or 500's? Your Lyr's got them both covered.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> You are certainly on your game today. So which are finding more headtime these days, your 560's or 500's? Your Lyr's got them both covered.


 
  
 HE-560s for sure, but I did listen a lot to the 3rd pair of HE-500s while they were burning in.  Even played them through the JDS Labs C5 (line out from Rockbox'd iPod Classic to C5), since they seemed crazy easy to drive on the Lyr and measure right around 33 ohms.  Couldn't do that with the HE-560s.
  
 The HE-560s rule the roost for soundstage, imaging and detail retrieval, but the HE-500s are still great.


----------



## 45longcolt

Just FYI, Andy Partridge (x-XTC) named his label Ape House records. ThurstonX should approve.


----------



## superjawes

I think they underestimated the demand for the Modi...mine finally shipped, but they're still showing a backorder on them.


----------



## ThurstonX

45longcolt said:


> Just FYI, Andy Partridge (x-XTC) named his label Ape House records. ThurstonX should approve.


 
  
 Ooh, forgot about that, and not three weeks ago I was reading their bio.  Rangy approves, though I won't be listening to XTC on the K550s (unless everything else breaks!).  HE-560s from the Stack o' Schiit to be sure.


----------



## NzAudezey

What sort of signature would the ragnarock have? I'm thinking of paring it with some LCD 3's


----------



## kothganesh

nzaudezey said:


> What sort of signature would the ragnarock have? I'm thinking of paring it with some LCD 3's


 
 Going from past experience with Schiit amps (have not heard the Rag), the said amp should pair very well with just about any Audez'e HPs.


----------



## sandab

I only wish the Rag were smaller since it would cover up the entire corner table (between two couches) I keep the HP amp on.  The DAC sits on a shelf below, and on the floor is a power conditioner.  Full size audio components don't fit on the shelf below and would take up the entire table.  I'd *love* to see a more innovative design, like say where the amp itself is a block-of-stuff put out of sight and the only thing on the table top is a small box with a headphone jack (1/4", balanced), volume control, gain switch, maybe a power light - then run a custom two-way cable back to the main unit.  The tabletop box only has to be big and heavy enough not to get dragged around by even the heaviest headphone cable - a modi size enclosure would work fine, maybe weighting it down a bit.  While a similar footprint can be accomplished with a small headphone amp, a split design wouldn't size constrain the amp itself.  It can go all-out, sprawling out of sight.  (Preferably sprawling vertically, not horizontally.)


----------



## Rudiger

Maybe Ikea will soon propose amps ...


----------



## StanD

rudiger said:


> Maybe Ikea will soon propose amps ...


 
 User assembly required. Be prepared to fire up your soldering iron.


----------



## jeremy205100

sandab said:


> I only wish the Rag were smaller since it would cover up the entire corner table (between two couches) I keep the HP amp on.  The DAC sits on a shelf below, and on the floor is a power conditioner.  Full size audio components don't fit on the shelf below and would take up the entire table.  I'd *love* to see a more innovative design, like say where the amp itself is a block-of-stuff put out of sight and the only thing on the table top is a small box with a headphone jack (1/4", balanced), volume control, gain switch, maybe a power light - then run a custom two-way cable back to the main unit.  The tabletop box only has to be big and heavy enough not to get dragged around by even the heaviest headphone cable - a modi size enclosure would work fine, maybe weighting it down a bit.  While a similar footprint can be accomplished with a small headphone amp, a split design wouldn't size constrain the amp itself.  It can go all-out, sprawling out of sight.  (Preferably sprawling vertically, not horizontally.)


 
 This will never happen. The cost would be insane, because some "people" would want insanely high quality cables. They also would refuse to buy it because even then said cables would never be good enough. That's why it's best to have no external cables, because people can buy their own and you won't have to deal with their demands.


----------



## sandab

Actually, there's an even simpler solution: a SYS with a 4P attenuator and XLR in/out.  Then run the amp at unity gain and simply attenuate the headphone.  A return signal cable for gain, power indication, etc could be optional.  Maybe I'll buy a SYS and repurpose the enclosure...
  
 "Large and flat" is still a suboptimal form factor though.
  
 Edit: or I could buy a Goldpoint passive attenuator!


----------



## Billheiser

sandab said:


> I only wish the Rag were smaller since it would cover up the entire corner table (between two couches) I keep the HP amp on.  The DAC sits on a shelf below, and on the floor is a power conditioner.  Full size audio components don't fit on the shelf below and would take up the entire table.  I'd *love* to see a more innovative design, like say where the amp itself is a block-of-stuff put out of sight and the only thing on the table top is a small box with a headphone jack (1/4", balanced), volume control, gain switch, maybe a power light - then run a custom two-way cable back to the main unit.  The tabletop box only has to be big and heavy enough not to get dragged around by even the heaviest headphone cable - a modi size enclosure would work fine, maybe weighting it down a bit.  While a similar footprint can be accomplished with a small headphone amp, a split design wouldn't size constrain the amp itself.  It can go all-out, sprawling out of sight.  (Preferably sprawling vertically, not horizontally.)



I can modify your unit to do that. $6995 and your choice of automotive lacquer colors. Or you could get a new side table that's 6" wider. I can sell you one for $50 (shipping extra).


----------



## Defiant00

Surprised this hasn't been posted here yet (from the Ragnarok thread, thanks *smitty1110*)
  
  


> Originally Posted by *smitty1110*
> 
> I was looking on the RMAF site and I saw that there was interesting information in the paragraph about Schiit -
> 
> ...


----------



## adamaley

That's a nice reveal there. $75 Headmp/DAC would compete nicely with the Fii0s of the world. I wonder what phones it can drive. The price for the Yggy is higher than many would have expected, and usually, with these things, the price usually doesn't drop.


----------



## jeremy205100

I don't think Schiit will go that low. But it couldn't have been a typo. Fulla also sounds like a dumb name. If this is an actual product though, I feel bad for them. They have been clearly trying very hard to make it so there are no leaks or announcements until they are ready from now on.
  
 Also, does anyone else think the price for the statement DAC is a bit steep? That's priced higher than the NAD M51 I think. I view Schiit as making products cheaper than the major manufacturers, not more expensive.


----------



## Defiant00

jeremy205100 said:


> I don't think Schiit will go that low. But it couldn't have been a typo. Fulla also sounds like a dumb name. If this is an actual product though, I feel bad for them. They have been clearly trying very hard to make it so there are no leaks or announcements until they are ready from now on.
> 
> Also, does anyone else think the price for the statement DAC is a bit steep? That's priced higher than the NAD M51 I think. I view Schiit as making products cheaper than the major manufacturers, not more expensive.




Knowing Schiit, I imagine the prices are just representative of the prices of all the fancy parts it takes to make the Yggdrasil. And who said they're "only" targeting DACs around the M51 level? Pretty sure, as their statement product, this is intended to complete with any other DAC, regardless of price.

Of course, whether it does or not remains to be seen.


----------



## jeremy205100

defiant00 said:


> Knowing Schiit, I imagine the prices are just representative of the prices of all the fancy parts it takes to make the Yggdrasil. And who said they're "only" targeting DACs around the M51 level? Pretty sure, as their statement product, this is intended to complete with any other DAC, regardless of price.
> 
> Of course, whether it does or not remains to be seen.


 
 I think even if it is better than the M51, with their direct distribution model they should be able to price it far cheaper and still have a far superior product. That's why Ragnarok is going to be such a great product.


----------



## KLJTech

I think that the parts cost and man hours needed to bring this product to market dictated the price since Schiit Audio doesn't strike me as a company to simply jack up the price because they can. In my opinion they're aiming a bit higher than the NAD M51 (a very nice DAC) as this is their statement DAC and if you check the prices on most other companies top of the line / statement DAC I think you'll find this isn't at all overpriced. Opinions will vary, but I've heard the M51 in two systems and "I" prefer the Gungnir in my two systems...I prefer the Gungnir to the $1995 Bryston BDA-1 as well. 
  
 Frankly statement / bleeding edge components aren't for everyone, it's more than I'd like to pay for a DAC right now and part of the reason is that I'm already very pleased with my Gungnir Gen 2 USB. I'd prefer to the spend the extra money on more music. Schiit Audio takes great care of their customers by offering products that outperform their price point while being made here in the U.S and by offering upgrades at very reasonable prices. Far be it for me to say that the Yggdrasil is overpriced (or priced too steep), that simply hasn't been the Schiit Audio way of doing business thus far and I doubt that will change.


----------



## superjawes

The thing about Yggdrasil is that it is meant to be the only (to date) DAC that is actually, truly bitperfect. At least that's the impression that I've always gotten from reading about it here. So I can't fault them if it ends up being several hundred dollars more than Ragnarok, because there shouldn't be anything better than it...ever.

As for Fulla, I dunno whether to believe it or not. They've always said that they don't like the idea of mixing analog and digital circuits because of the noise generation.

On the other hand, Jason did say that one of the unexpected products was going to take the company in a new direction, and hitting an even lower price point than the $99x2 Magni/Modi combo would do that.


----------



## crazychile

jeremy205100 said:


> Also, does anyone else think the price for the statement DAC is a bit steep? That's priced higher than the NAD M51 I think. I view Schiit as making products cheaper than the major manufacturers, not more expensive.


 
  
 Schiit DOES make products cheaper than the major manufacturers, given their direct-to-consumer business model. I think you're mistaken thinking that their $2300 DAC is intended to compare to a cheaper NAD. Instead, I would think that it will compare to other DAC's  in the $3500-$4500 range that sell through a retail dealer network.


----------



## money4me247

crazychile said:


> Schiit DOES make products cheaper than the major manufacturers, given their direct-to-consumer business model. I think you're mistaken thinking that their $2300 DAC is intended to compare to a cheaper NAD. Instead, I would think that it will compare to other DAC's  in the $3500-$4500 range that sell through a retail dealer network.


 
 I dunno how true that is. have you guys ever looked at the pricing for their accessories? looks pretty marked up to me. i see their ads on random audiophile websites too, so they have an advertising budget.
  
 The DAC marketplace in general seems marked up to ridiculously insane levels to me.


----------



## crazychile

money4me247 said:


> I dunno how true that is. have you guys ever looked at the pricing for their accessories? looks pretty marked up to me. i see their ads on random audiophile websites too, so they have an advertising budget.
> 
> The DAC marketplace in general seems marked up to ridiculously insane levels to me.


 
  
 What's an acceptable markup on accessories to you? Make sure to figure in that you have to include the costs of  paying light bills, rent, insurance, paying someone to pull the item and ship it, customer service, how many you have to buy in bulk and how long they may sit on the shelf, the true costs of having money invested in inventory, etc.... This is just for carrying inventory bought from a wholesaler. If you have a product with R&D, the costs go up considerably.
  
 I remember many years ago when working for an audio company that a guy wanted to buy a replacement remote for his 5 yr old CD player that was out of production. The price was $30 plus shipping. (pretty cheap for a remote) but he was offended because in his mind he thought there were less than $10 in parts and $30 was "price gouging him" . Let alone that it's not uncommon for a part like that to be discontinued because of the age. The guy didn't have a clue as to what it cost to make something like this available to him.
  
 I'm not picking on you, but most people only learn the true cost of doing business, when they've actually had to do the math when actually operating a business.


----------



## Defiant00

money4me247 said:


> I dunno how true that is. have you guys ever looked at the pricing for their accessories? looks pretty marked up to me. i see their ads on random audiophile websites too, so they have an advertising budget.
> 
> The DAC marketplace in general seems marked up to ridiculously insane levels to me.


 
  
 Cables, maybe a little marked up, but I suspect that's mainly because they aren't ordering them by the millions from China. Everything else looks fairly priced to surprisingly cheap, and I doubt they're really making much at all on the accessories.


----------



## Chozart

money4me247 said:


> I dunno how true that is. have you guys ever looked at the pricing for their accessories? looks pretty marked up to me. i see their ads on random audiophile websites too, so they have an advertising budget.
> 
> The DAC marketplace in general seems marked up to ridiculously insane levels to me.


 
  
 I don't think their accessories are market up at all. Do note that the PYST cables aren't your standard cables that you can buy at any given electronics store. The RCA plugs on mine are actually Straight Wire plugs, which is a well known audio cable manufacturer. And a company having an advertisement budget does not mean they mark their stuff up. However, like any cost incurred for making and selling a product, it will be calculated into the price (note: we're not talking full page ads in the NYT or Superbowl ads here... it's banner ads on specific websites. Nothing that costs that much).


----------



## money4me247

crazychile said:


> What's an acceptable markup on accessories to you? Make sure to figure in that you have to include the costs of  paying light bills, rent, insurance, paying someone to pull the item and ship it, customer service, how many you have to buy in bulk and how long they may sit on the shelf, the true costs of having money invested in inventory, etc.... This is just for carrying inventory bought from a wholesaler. If you have a product with R&D, the costs go up considerably.
> 
> I remember many years ago when working for an audio company that a guy wanted to buy a replacement remote for his 5 yr old CD player that was out of production. The price was $30 plus shipping. (pretty cheap for a remote) but he was offended because in his mind he thought there were less than $10 in parts and $30 was "price gouging him" . Let alone that it's not uncommon for a part like that to be discontinued because of the age. The guy didn't have a clue as to what it cost to make something like this available to him.
> 
> I'm not picking on you, but most people only learn the true cost of doing business, when they've actually had to do the math when actually operating a business.


 
  
 lol. i'm not saying that aren't offering a 'good' price for their business size, and sure I understand that they are running a business & need to profit. i'm just saying I just don't think that their profit margins are any smaller than other companies or anything special. you can just find those accessories much cheaper elsewhere. You can buy those tubes from a tube dealer direct for $3/each, cables can be found from cable companies sub-$10, and wall chargers can be found <$7. The larger companies that bulk purchase components or specialize in wholesale can always out-price the smaller company for the same profit margins. For standardized accessories, it makes a lot more sense for the consumer to just buy direct... rather than pay for an audio company's utilities/rent & their extra costs of getting the item from the OEM. 
  
 the guy from your example is right to walk. he could easily find that product cheaper online nowadays. brick-n-motor stores charge a lot more for the same thing for the exact reason you described. have to pay rent & utilities. Considering you can get a cd player for less than $100 nowadays, 1/3 of that price for a simple remote just doesn't make sense to a consumer. the fact that your example store can't offer a more competitive price means that you shouldn't be stocking that item.
  
 schiit's strength/niche is pricing their audiophile equipment at a more affordable price compared to major brands, but I doubt that they are taking a a major hit in profit. they price what they think people will pay & cannot afford to price as high as more established brands. all companies say they are giving you the best price for amazing equipment, but really pricing is more determined by economics... supply & demand. audiophile items just get marked up a lot more, because audiophile consumers are willing to pay more.
  
 edit: i don't think there is anything wrong with schiit's pricing & I agree that their mark-ups are probably reasonable. i'm just saying that they are just another company, trying to make profit. i would always do research on your options before just buying.


----------



## crazychile

chozart said:


> I don't think their accessories are market up at all. Do note that the PYST cables aren't your standard cables that you can buy at any given electronics store. The RCA plugs on mine are actually Straight Wire plugs, which is a well known audio cable manufacturer. And a company having an advertisement budget does not mean they mark their stuff up. However, like any cost incurred for making and selling a product, it will be calculated into the price (note: we're not talking full page ads in the NYT or Superbowl ads here... it's banner ads on specific websites. Nothing that costs that much).


 

 I completely agree. I have a pair of the PYST cables also and to purchase the RCA's/cable _with shipping_ to DIY an identical pair could easily cost close or even exceed the amount Schiit charges for those. And then you'd have your labor time on top of that to assemble them.
  
 Assuming 4 Straight Wire RCA's at $3 ea. plus $6 shipping = $18
 Cable (assuming buying from a different supplier) is $2 ft (qty 1) plus $6 shipping = $8
 18+8= $26 plus your cost of solder vs. $20 plus $6 shipping from Schiit for the PYST.....I'll take the PYSTs.


----------



## ThurstonX

crazychile said:


> I completely agree. I have a pair of the PYST cables also and to purchase the RCA's/cable _with shipping_ to DIY an identical pair could easily cost close or even exceed the amount Schiit charges for those. And then you'd have your labor time on top of that to assemble them.
> 
> Assuming 4 Straight Wire RCA's at $3 ea. plus $6 shipping = $18
> Cable (assuming buying from a different supplier) is $2 ft (qty 1) plus $6 shipping = $8
> 18+8= $26 plus your cost of solder vs. $20 plus $6 shipping from Schiit for the PYST.....I'll take the PYSTs.


 
  
 Agree on the DIY point, as the RCAs were (to me) surprisingly expensive.  Unless you're buying a lot of stuff for DIY projects to ameliorate the shipping costs per item, building just a pair of 7" cables will put you in PYST territory.  I have two pairs of PYSTs.  The first was defective, and Schiit shipped a new pair immediately once I detailed the testing I did.  I did repair the first, once I got a soldering station, *and *made my own, but that was because I had the cable and wanted more experience.  So yeah, $20 may seem steep for a pair of really short cables, but good luck finding nice, short cables like that.  I searched high and low, and ended up right back at Schiit, where they proved their excellent customer service.


----------



## Draygonn

thurstonx said:


> good luck finding nice, short cables like that.


Exactly. PYST meet the needs of a Schiit Stack.


----------



## crazychile

money4me247 said:


> lol. i'm not saying that aren't offering a 'good' price for their business size, and sure I understand that they are running a business & need to profit. i'm just saying I just don't think that their profit margins are any smaller than other companies or anything special. you can just find those accessories much cheaper elsewhere. You can buy those tubes from a tube dealer direct for $3/each, cables can be found from cable companies sub-$10, and wall chargers can be found <$7. The larger companies that bulk purchase components or specialize in wholesale can always out-price the smaller company for the same profit margins. For standardized accessories, it makes a lot more sense for the consumer to just buy direct... rather than pay for an audio company's utilities/rent & their extra costs of getting the item from the OEM.
> 
> the guy from your example is right to walk. he could easily find that product cheaper online nowadays. brick-n-motor stores charge a lot more for the same thing for the exact reason you described. have to pay rent & utilities. Considering you can get a cd player for less than $100 nowadays, 1/3 of that price for a simple remote just doesn't make sense to a consumer. the fact that your example store can't offer a more competitive price means that you shouldn't be stocking that item.
> 
> ...


 

 Schiits profit margins probably aren't lower than other audio companies. I wouldn't expect them to be lower. The savings to the consumer comes from cutting out a dealer network, not by running their business on lower margins. My fault for misunderstanding you there.
  
 As for tubes, I haven't seen them for $3 each, but admittedly you could find them for less than $10. But they probably wouldn't be matched and you have to have the equipment for that and pay someone to do it. It's a value added markup that some people care about, others don't. I don't think $20 for a matched pair of tubes is out of line at all.
  
 In the example with the guy and the remote....It wasn't from a retail source but from the manufacturer of the CD Player. The CD Player was $700 and the remote was the direct OEM replacement, not an all-in-one learning remote or something like that. I one inquired about buying a replacement remote for a cheap (<$250) A/V receiver I owned. The manufacturers parts department quoted me $150 for it. I thought that was expensive, but typical. So a $30 remote on a $700 CD player is pretty cheap.
  
 Audiophile products do tend to be expensive. Part of that is because they are sold in lower quantities - due to a smaller market, than mass market stuff. Having worked in the industry, I've seen cases where the designer charges a high price because they think it compares to other products at a similar high price, even if it doesn't have a high cost or isn't really anything groundbreaking. This wouldn't be my approach but it happens.
  
 Take a look at the Pro Audio Market vs. the High End Audio market for a second. Crown amps sells more product than High End Brand X. I'm not claiming that the products are comparable but Crown distributes their R&D costs over a high volume of sales, while High End Brand X would be lucky to sell a hundred units of some models. So High End Brand X has to charge a premium for it to stay in business. (And many of them don't stay in business). I think you'd be surprised at the number of components on Stereophiles Recommended lists that never sell more than a few hundred units. I'm not even talking about flagship models that cost crazy $$$, but may only cost a couple thousand or so. Of course there are exceptions, but successful High End products are often sold in the hundreds, not tens of thousands.


----------



## NzAudezey

Just as a side note, I ordered the USB gen 2 card for my gungnir directly from schiit with expensive shipping as I'm in NZ it arrived in good time and I installed it with out issue ( those dam led lights are tricky) yet 2 days later I had an email from schiit with a formal appologie as they had sent the product on the wrong priority and it took and extra day or 2 ( i didn't even notice) they then refunded me the full amount of the shipping.( about 60us)

To me that speaks volumes that an error was made and they corrected it with out having to be asked or required to. A+ for the service and the integrity of the company and they have definitely won my business


----------



## CrazyNikel

I just received my Schiit MODI opti dac and I received the wrong power plug! I ordered a USA and instead got a EU plug. Do you guys know how Schiits policy handles this? I surely wont have to ship the entire product back right? Ive already contacted Schiit directly...Such sad, much disappointment, was so looking forward to listening to my complete audio setup...not now.


----------



## madwolfa

crazynikel said:


> I just received my Schiit MODI opti dac and I received the wrong power plug! I ordered a USA and instead got a EU plug. Do you guys know how Schiits policy handles this? I surely wont have to ship the entire product back right? Ive already contacted Schiit directly...Such sad, much disappointment, was so looking forward to listening to my complete audio setup...not now.


 
  
 I'm sure they will get to you and handle the exchange ASAP...
  
 PS: I guess they'd just need to send you a US wallwart.


----------



## Billheiser

crazynikel said:


> I just received my Schiit MODI opti dac and I received the wrong power plug! I ordered a USA and instead got a EU plug. Do you guys know how Schiits policy handles this? I surely wont have to ship the entire product back right? Ive already contacted Schiit directly...Such sad, much disappointment, was so looking forward to listening to my complete audio setup...not now.


 
 If you have a wall wart that provides 16 volts AC, you can use that until Schitt corrects the mistake.  However, make sure what you use is 16 VAC, and NOT DC, which is more common among wall wart power supplies.


----------



## Chozart

Knowing them, I'd recon they'll send out the correct wall wart the moment they receive your e-mail. Worst case, they'll have you send back the incorrect wall wart, but I don't think they'll even require that before sending you the correct (USA) wall wart.
  
 Yes, they're a business. And their goal of course is profit. But unlike some other businesses out here, they realize that a loyal customer base is key to a profitable business.


----------



## CrazyNikel

I love you guys. Made me feel better :3
  
  
 Regardless, I love the Schiit products. And have had no issues with my Vali amp, my Magni is OTW. Its just ironic to me cause Ive been waiting longest for the dac and it came with the wrong plug ahaha. Well I went ahead and ordered an extra wall-wort just in case. I mean, hell its 10 bucks.
  
@Billheiser I actually almost just tried a DC 12v I had. But figured I would just wait. I'm a very impatient guy but sometimes schiit happens.


----------



## ThurstonX

crazynikel said:


> I love you guys. Made me feel better :3
> 
> 
> Regardless, I love the Schiit products. And have had no issues with my Vali amp, my Magni is OTW. Its just ironic to me cause Ive been waiting longest for the dac and it came with the wrong plug ahaha. Well I went ahead and ordered an extra wall-wort just in case. I mean, hell its 10 bucks.
> ...


 
  
 That's a bummer, but they'll make it right.  Just look at how they handled NZAudezey's shipping issue, which wasn't even an issue to him.  Also, when they sent me new PYST cables to replace the defective pair, they didn't ask for the original pair.


----------



## CrazyNikel

thurstonx said:


> That's a bummer, but they'll make it right.  Just look at how they handled NZAudezey's shipping issue, which wasn't even an issue to him.  Also, when they sent me new PYST cables to replace the defective pair, they didn't ask for the original pair.


 

 They already got back to me and have shipped 1 replacement via USPS priority. Good guys, its certainly an easy mistake to make as I imagine the plugs are already packaged and when they ship, they probably verify via label. I need to /equip better patience lol.


----------



## Chozart

Glad to hear that the famous Schiit customer service came through as expected. Have fun, since this is great gear!


----------



## jeremy205100

defiant00 said:


> Surprised this hasn't been posted here yet (from the Ragnarok thread, thanks *smitty1110*)


 


> Originally Posted by *smitty1110*
> 
> I was looking on the RMAF site and I saw that there was interesting information in the paragraph about Schiit -
> 
> ...


 
 I'm surprised no one else is interested in this given that it's likely a legitimate product? It does say that they will be giving away an unreleased product, and this could very well be it. I think it could destroy FiiO if Schiit is successful with a $79 product. Although it seems too good to be true because of the price and the fact that Jason has said so many times that he's against a combined solution.


----------



## jexby

Guess it doesn't have to be portable, but didn't Jason also say Schiit are opposed to batteries in devices?
  
 nevertheless, their table is my first visit at RMAF.....


----------



## superjawes

Came home fore lunch and...




Modi is now connected 

One weird thing, the finish on the Modi is different from the Magni I got last year (bottom picture). Nothing major (since I'm connected to a black Valhalla anyway), just interesting. Could be a problem for the anal retentive bunch.

I'll do some more listening later tonight, but initial impression is good.


----------



## Byronb

Congrats on the new toys!!


----------



## 45longcolt

Seems to me the Fulla is aimed directly at the AQ Dragonfly. And being more of a convenience (as opposed to full-on OCD audiophile) upgrade, perhaps that was enough to cause Jason to set aside his objections to combining analog/digital features/batteries and whatnot. He has suggested the company is pursuing different product types and strategies.
  
 I don't like the name Fulla, which seems gratuitously scatological. Next will be the Giva, the Pila, the Tuff and the Onnashingle. At least the name Wyrd is interesting because it can be pronounced "Wired" as well as "Weird" which is a more dimensional pun.
  
 Wish I could go to RMAF. Just have to settle for reading reports. Please post lots of pics, you lucky folk who get there.


----------



## Billheiser

45longcolt said:


> Seems to me the Fulla is aimed directly at the AQ Dragonfly. And being more of a convenience (as opposed to full-on OCD audiophile) upgrade, perhaps that was enough to cause Jason to set aside his objections to combining analog/digital features/batteries and whatnot. He has suggested the company is pursuing different product types and strategies.
> 
> I don't like the name Fulla, which seems gratuitously scatological. Next will be the Giva, the Pila, the Tuff and the Onnashingle. At least the name Wyrd is interesting because it can be pronounced "Wired" as well as "Weird" which is a more dimensional pun.
> 
> Wish I could go to RMAF. Just have to settle for reading reports. Please post lots of pics, you lucky folk who get there.


 
 Agree on the name.  Even if they come up with a Norse connection, it is silly at best.


----------



## ThurstonX

billheiser said:


> Agree on the name.  Even if they come up with a Norse connection, it is silly at best.


 
  
 So, do you think it's Fulla Schiit?  That could be a very good thing, since they only put out the good Schiit.


----------



## Jam Boy

superjawes said:


> Came home fore lunch and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Nice. 

Luckily, the finish on my just-purchased Vali seems to match my year-old Modi.


----------



## uziyourillusion

So, I'm new to audiophile equipment, so bare with me guys. I got a Schiit Magni to power my AKG Q701's. When I'm running from my Nexus 5 to my Magni to my AKGs, the volume is pretty low. I have to crank it to the max to get loudish volume. Does this mean the Schiit Magni is too weak to power these headphones?
  
 Also, when running out of my PC, I have the AKGs plugged into the Magni Y connector into my SoundBlaster Z's headphone out. Is that what I should the output I should be using? I've ready somewhere else that it should be the 5.1 channel output.


----------



## Rem0o

uziyourillusion said:


> So, I'm new to audiophile equipment, so bare with me guys. I got a Schiit Magni to power my AKG Q701's. When I'm running from my Nexus 5 to my Magni to my AKGs, the volume is pretty low. I have to crank it to the max to get loudish volume. Does this mean the Schiit Magni is too weak to power these headphones?
> 
> Also, when running out of my PC, I have the AKGs plugged into the Magni Y connector into my SoundBlaster Z's headphone out. Is that what I should the output I should be using? I've ready somewhere else that it should be the 5.1 channel output.


 
 Hey.

 Magni is made to be fed with lineout level voltage (arround 2V). If you use your nexus 5 with the volume halfway, you're not even pushing 1 V. You should set your phone's volume high first and you should then get decent play on your amp. For your soundcard, you should indeed use the lineout (the stereo part of the 5.1 output most likely) in order to get decent play with your amp again.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## uziyourillusion

rem0o said:


> Hey.
> 
> Magni is made to be fed with lineout level voltage (arround 2V). If you use your nexus 5 with the volume halfway, you're not even pushing 1 V. You should set your phone's volume high first and you should then get decent play on your amp. For your soundcard, you should indeed use the lineout (the stereo part of the 5.1 output most likely) in order to get decent play with your amp again.
> 
> Hope that helps.


 
 thanks for the quick reply, I have the volume on the Nexus 5 and the Magni cranked to the max and its still not very loud.


----------



## KLJTech

I believe I read (maybe on AnadTech.com) that the Nexus 5 puts about 1V and if that's true that is the reason you're not getting more output from the Magni. I'm not positive about that spec so you should check into it and see what its putting out/ feeding the Magni. As already has already been mentioned, most headphone amps are looking for 2 volts at their input...give them less voltage in and they'll output less.
  
 Also, the AKG 701's require a bit of juice to sound their best, the Lyr was the first amp I heard that gave the 701's a more powerful bottom end to go with its already great midrange and treble. I'm sure that the Magni has more than enough power to drive the AKG's if the input signal is closer to the normal 2 volts.  
  
 Good luck and I hope you get it worked out!


----------



## Shunrei

Hi all, i'm new to this Schiit, and i think i should share some thoughts! I'm happy with Asgard and Valhalla, and i was about to pull the trigger for Lyr! But i hope i could reason with myself or i might as well go broke!
 They said that HD650s pair very well with Valhalla.. and i do think so. Though i got spoiled by Crack which was awesome but i think i'll hold myself with all of these Schiits around me. At this point sometimes i even questioning myself whenever i got that "this is not enough!" feeling, since i do listen to a lot of musics, back a few years up till now (not that i'm listening to some old stuff but well..) I found that some recordings just might as well not good enough i'm starting to get afraid i might be blaming my cans and setup! 
  
 But Overall i'm happy. They might as well release stuff like Schiit Valkyrie and i might as well buy it because its name only! And now Ragnarok announced just after i bought secondhand Bifrost.. This Schiit is getting serious.
  
 Anyway did someone did stuff like hooking Lyr through preamp to Valhalla to drive something? I was waiting for someone to do that kind of thing since i want to get Lyr for that.. man i don't know if i could reason myself anymore, since for some people, that kind of indecent act might as well be categorized into.. pointless act of defiance.


----------



## money4me247

hey just curious if anyone with the lyr 2 has experienced intermittent very subtle crackling type sounds in one channel and any recommended troubleshooting? occurs randomly.
  
 currently using with he-560 at high gain settings.


----------



## Byronb

Not with the Lyr, but I have had that problem with my Valhalla, it turned out to be a bad tube.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

money4me247 said:


> hey just curious if anyone with the lyr 2 has experienced intermittent very subtle crackling type sounds in one channel and any recommended troubleshooting? occurs randomly.
> 
> currently using with he-560 at high gain settings.


 
 Do your interconnects have a solid connection? Do you hear it when you move around, could it be microfonics from your headphone cable? Have you checked the cable connection t the 560's? The HiFiman connectors can work loose and cause a crackling sound as the connection s lost and regained. If you tap your amp can you recreate the crackling sound, are your tubes set tightly? If all else fails I recommend that you take a six pack and call me in the morning


----------



## money4me247

wildcatsare1 said:


> Do your interconnects have a solid connection? Do you hear it when you move around, could it be microfonics from your headphone cable? Have you checked the cable connection t the 560's? The HiFiman connectors can work loose and cause a crackling sound as the connection s lost and regained. If you tap your amp can you recreate the crackling sound, are your tubes set tightly? If all else fails I recommend that you take a six pack and call me in the morning


 
 thank you for the detailed troubleshoot. it's definitely not microfonics or he560 cable connectors, those were the first two things i checked! haahh. silly hifiman cables.
  
 the problem actually resolved when i switched to low gain & then back to high gain. weird. any idea what something like that could be related to? hopefully, this problem does not occur again.
  
 btw, how can you tell if your tubes are set correctly?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

money4me247 said:


> thank you for the detailed troubleshoot. it's definitely not microfonics or he560 cable connectors, those were the first two things i checked! haahh. silly hifiman cables.
> 
> the problem actually resolved when i switched to low gain & then back to high gain. weird. any idea what something like that could be related to? hopefully, this problem does not occur again.
> 
> btw, how can you tell if your tubes are set correctly?


 
 They are tightly in the socket, with no play or wiggle. Do you think the toggle switch was not fully engaged? Have you decided on NOS Tubes yet? So what discs are you spinning tonight? I am enjoying "Pounding Sand", Robert Plant & Allison Krauss


----------



## TontonJoK

With a He 560 35 ohms and lyr 2 you need to put the high gain ??
Low gain and higher volume is not better ??


----------



## money4me247

wildcatsare1 said:


> They are tightly in the socket, with no play or wiggle. Do you think the toggle switch was not fully engaged? Have you decided on NOS Tubes yet? So what discs are you spinning tonight? I am enjoying "Pounding Sand", Robert Plant & Allison Krauss


 
 thank you for the tips. not sure if there was an issue with the toggle switch, but I doubt it b/c it feels really solid & well-built.
  
 I've actually realized that if the amp is on without any music playing, you actually get a weird 'buzzing/humming' type sound. This occurs on high gain at the 12 o'clock position and on low gain at the 3 o'clock position. I don't normally listen that loudly, but that can't be normal right?? Does that sound like an issue with the amp & something I should contact schiit about or is there something I can do myself to mitigate the issue???
  
 I've actually decided not go get any new tubes. The sound signature of the stock tubes are actually exactly what I was looking for to pair with the HE-560. Much improved bass presence and quality. Took me a bit of time to adjust, but I really like it now. I feel like there could probably be a boost in sonic characteristics like sound stage or clarity by upgrading, but it's not worth the jump for me right now. Maybe try something different after these tubes die on me.
  
 I actually listen to my music on shuffflee-shuffle most of the time, so hoppin all over the place!!  i have noticed that it seems like pop music is usually pretty badly mastered or at least I can pick out a bit of trouble spots with my new set-up. had some trouble with a few EDM & hip hop/r&b songs as well. however, alternative/rock/classical/piano/female vocals all sound amazing. you can definitely notice the improvement in sound with those genres. also amazing for watching movies! lol.
  


tontonjok said:


> With a He 560 35 ohms and lyr 2 you need to put the high gain ??
> Low gain and higher volume is not better ??


 
  
 I think the impedance of the HE-560 is a bit higher. Hifiman has updated it to 50+/-8 ohms on their website. The other specs may have been for their pre-production version.
  
 I guess I am curious about the gain settings as well. 50 ohms seems to be in between easy & hard to drive. The efficiency also seems very in the middle. I've read different things about where you should put your gain settings, anyone here can clarify for these headphones?
  
 Tried with both high & low gain, and honestly I find it hard to really volume match, so I feel like impressions are biased based on which every one is higher. I initially started with high gain, but got some random very intermittent noise every once in a while & feels a bit fuzzier to me, so changed to low gain. hard for me to say though as I don't have any way to match the volume between high & low gain.


----------



## Billheiser

Internittent noises or sounds are NOT normal for the Lyr or any amp, and humming/buzzing at 12:00 volume is not normal either. Contact Schiit if your own troubleshooting doesn't find the answer.


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> I've actually realized that if the amp is on without any music playing, you actually get a weird 'buzzing/humming' type sound. This occurs on high gain at the 12 o'clock position and on low gain at the 3 o'clock position. I don't normally listen that loudly, but that can't be normal right?? Does that sound like an issue with the amp & something I should contact schiit about or is there something I can do myself to mitigate the issue???


 
 You shouoldn't be getting such hum or noises. Try disconnecting all inputs from your amp. Do you still hear it? If so, it's time to contact Schiit. Otherwise it's either a ground loop, defective component or cable that is upstream.


----------



## TontonJoK

Try to plug alone + try to plug with the computer and if possible in an other place


----------



## money4me247

thank you all for your replies.
  
 so I disconnected the lyr 2 from everything except power supply & headphones, and there is noise when I tap on the amp, but no more background noise. I tried to switching tubes and reseating then, but I feel like my tubes don't really set down tightly... there is always wiggle room. So if the amplifier is disconnected from everything & there is static when I tap on it, this is a problem with the amplifier right? 
  
 my set-up runs from my laptop > usb dac > rca cables > lyr2 > hifiman cables > headphones.
  
 I tried all the below options and the background static was still present
 1) I removed the dac from the chain
 2) I have three different rca cables that I swapped out (note the lyr picks up additional noise with rca cable movement as well)
 3) I added a ground loop isolator (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EAQTRI/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
 4) Tried with different headphones (note the lyr picks up additional noise with the headphone cable movement as well)
  
 Below are the things I tried that made a difference
 1) Swapped out to my tablet as a source > no background noise, but noise still present when tapping on the amp
 2) The background noise at higher volume pot levels does decrease when I unplug the power source on my laptop
  
 Ran all the tests above with my Bravo V3 amp, and absolutely no background noise with anything.
  
 Also, interesting note is that when the metal part of the HE-400 headphone comes into contact with the table, I get a large static sound when it is connected to the lyr 2. does not occur with the Bravo V3 amp.
  
 Any advice? It seems to me that most of the problems are due to the tubes not able to set down tightly, but weirdly neither socket offers a very secure fit. I did notice that the pins of my tubes seem a bit bent outwards. additionally, it may be a problem with the laptop's power supply or whatever, but I find it strange that my Bravo V3 does not exhibit any of those problems & the ground loop isolator did not help at all. Thoughts? I should definitely contact schiit right?


----------



## BeatsWork

Just a suggestion but if it were me I'd find the cheapest possible tubes on Ebay and see if that resolves issue. The fact that tapping the tubes introduces significant noise sounds like microphonics which is indicative of bad tube. Not saying don't contact customer support 1st just suggesting possible route to solution.


----------



## Mark-sf

money4me247 said:


> thank you all for your replies.
> 
> so I disconnected the lyr 2 from everything except power supply & headphones, and there is noise when I tap on the amp, but no more background noise. I tried to switching tubes and reseating then, but I feel like my tubes don't really set down tightly... there is always wiggle room. So if the amplifier is disconnected from everything & there is static when I tap on it, this is a problem with the amplifier right?
> 
> ...




Hearing a noise when you tap on the amp simply means your tubes are a bit microphonic and the solution is to stop tapping on the amp or replace the tubes.  I had difficulty with seating the stock tubes on my Lyr 2 that did not exist with my other tubes. If you check that the pins are straight and then rock them back an forth a bit as would occur when extracting them they will seat without undue force. Having said that even of they are fully seated they will likely still be microphonic. This is more an issue when using speakers, but with headphones most of us don't have an issue. The only real solution is to replace the tubes. If they are the stock ones I am sure Schiit will replace them if still in warranty. The background noise due to your computer is an entirely different type and I would need to have a detailed description of its character to assist further. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## money4me247

mark-sf said:


> Hearing a noise when you tap on the amp simply means your tubes are a bit microphonic and the solution is to stop tapping on the amp or replace the tubes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The interference background noise turned out to be from my laptop's AC adapter?!? Really surprising to me as I've never had such an issue with any other amps. Luckily, I had a spare AC adapter and the noticeable buzzing/crackling at higher volumes has been mostly resolved. Still some subtle noise when the volume pot is maxed on high gain, but I'm never going to reach that range, so I think it should be okay. 
  
 I only was tapping on the amp because someone suggested it as troubleshooting!! hahah!!! mr. lyr 2 would get grumpy when i tapped him & hiss at me. !!! I did check the pins and they are not really that straight (compared to the tubes I've owned in the past), but I am unsure what kind of variability is acceptable for them to still work. Pins bent slightly outwards. thank you so much for your suggestion about rocking the tubes; I have only been pushing straight down, so I will try that next time they unseat.
  
 I actually just received my amp earlier this week, so hypothetically everything is covered. I am just not very stoked about paying to ship defective items back to them, and unsure what is even defective (tubes or tube socket) or if this wiggling out is considered to be acceptable variability. I never touch the amp except to turn on or switch headphones, but the tubes would still randomly unseat, so that there is either distortion or one channel would go out. !!! A bit disappointed that the lyr would experience such problems when none of my other cheaper amps did.


----------



## Byronb

money4me247 said:


> The interference background noise turned out to be from my laptop's AC adapter?!? Really surprising to me as I've never had such an issue with any other amps. Luckily, I had a spare AC adapter and the noticeable buzzing/crackling at higher volumes has been mostly resolved. Still some subtle noise when the volume pot is maxed on high gain, but I'm never going to reach that range, so I think it should be okay.
> 
> I only was tapping on the amp because someone suggested it as troubleshooting!! hahah!!! mr. lyr 2 would get grumpy when i tapped him & hiss at me. !!! I did check the pins and they are not really that straight (compared to the tubes I've owned in the past), but I am unsure what kind of variability is acceptable for them to still work. Pins bent slightly outwards. thank you so much for your suggestion about rocking the tubes; I have only been pushing straight down, so I will try that next time they unseat.
> 
> I actually just received my amp earlier this week, so hypothetically everything is covered. I am just not very stoked about paying to ship defective items back to them, and unsure what is even defective (tubes or tube socket) or if this wiggling out is considered to be acceptable variability. I never touch the amp except to turn on or switch headphones, but the tubes would still randomly unseat, so that there is either distortion or one channel would go out. !!! A bit disappointed that the lyr would experience such problems when none of my other cheaper amps did.


 
 If you are only pushing them straight down with out any "rolling" I would seriously doubt that they have been completely seated. Give the "rolling" a try that may fix you up right there.


----------



## jexby

byronb said:


> If you are only pushing them straight down with out any "rolling" I would seriously doubt that they have been completely seated. Give the "rolling" a try that may fix you up right there.


 
  
 Indeed, and depending on the tube- I need to push down HARD/FIRM to get the tubes down flush with the sockets.
 don't be afraid to apply some (not super massive) force.


----------



## gefski

If you're using tube amplification you should have:
1) pin straighteners
2) pieces of rubberized shelf liner give great grip and keep fingerprints off the tubes
3) extra tubes for all applications (cheapies are fine for testing for problems)


----------



## Sdir

Hi all, I recently got a HD650 and really like it. Powering directly from a Creative ZxR card.
 I'm hearing a lot of people saying a HD650 requires a decent amp to power it to its full potential!
  
 So I'm considering an Asgard 2 amp to work with my ZxR card, will there be a improvement?
 Or will the idea of going Modi+Magni be a better idea than ZxR+ Asgard 2?


----------



## money4me247

sdir said:


> Hi all, I recently got a HD650 and really like it. Powering directly from a Creative ZxR card.
> I'm hearing a lot of people saying a HD650 requires a decent amp to power it to its full potential!
> 
> So I'm considering an Asgard 2 amp to work with my ZxR card, will there be a improvement?
> Or will the idea of going Modi+Magni be a better idea than ZxR+ Asgard 2?


 
 doesn't the creative ZxR already come with an amp?
  
 it's hard to say how big the sonic difference between 'audiophile' amps & dacs vs well-made sound cards w/ an amp would be. I personally wouldn't expect that huge sonic change from my personal experience, but other people here think differently.


----------



## swspiers

sdir said:


> Hi all, I recently got a HD650 and really like it. Powering directly from a Creative ZxR card.
> I'm hearing a lot of people saying a HD650 requires a decent amp to power it to its full potential!
> 
> So I'm considering an Asgard 2 amp to work with my ZxR card, will there be a improvement?
> Or will the idea of going Modi+Magni be a better idea than ZxR+ Asgard 2?


 
 Totally depends on the output of your card.  Do you have any specs?  (I don't pay much attention to cards)
  
 Modi/Magni may be the better deal if your audio out from the card is less than 2 volts.


----------



## Sdir

money4me247 said:


> doesn't the creative ZxR already come with an amp?
> 
> it's hard to say how big the sonic difference between 'audiophile' amps & dacs vs well-made sound cards w/ an amp would be. I personally wouldn't expect that huge sonic change from my personal experience, but other people here think differently.


 

 Exactly my confusion. 
 ZxR is drawing power from a single pcie slot within the motherboard, I'm afraid the power drawn isn't enough for an full size headphone, even though advertised as it can drive up to 600ohm cans.


----------



## Sdir

I couldn't find anything regarding the amp on the card ,other than the amp chip uses a "Texas Instrument 6120A2 (120dB DAC, 80mW into 600 ohm)".


----------



## commtrd

themorganlett85 said:


> Well it's not that big of a deal to me since I already know I want the LCD-2 with the Mjolnir. There's not that many more headphones on there that I want besides maybe a few Beyerdynamic ones so it's all good in the proverbial hood.


That combination will rock your world. What dac?


----------



## 45longcolt

Anyone else out there a fan of the History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" series? It's hilarious, albeit (probably) not intentionally. Anyway, they're playing the Viking Gods episode tomorrow, 9-15, Monday on H2 @ 6 p.m. EST. Several Schiit products get name-checked. Enjoy.


----------



## swspiers

We are so well—informed


----------



## Mark-sf

money4me247 said:


> The interference background noise turned out to be from my laptop's AC adapter?!? Really surprising to me as I've never had such an issue with any other amps. Luckily, I had a spare AC adapter and the noticeable buzzing/crackling at higher volumes has been mostly resolved. Still some subtle noise when the volume pot is maxed on high gain, but I'm never going to reach that range, so I think it should be okay.
> 
> I only was tapping on the amp because someone suggested it as troubleshooting!! hahah!!! mr. lyr 2 would get grumpy when i tapped him & hiss at me. !!! I did check the pins and they are not really that straight (compared to the tubes I've owned in the past), but I am unsure what kind of variability is acceptable for them to still work. Pins bent slightly outwards. thank you so much for your suggestion about rocking the tubes; I have only been pushing straight down, so I will try that next time they unseat.
> 
> I actually just received my amp earlier this week, so hypothetically everything is covered. I am just not very stoked about paying to ship defective items back to them, and unsure what is even defective (tubes or tube socket) or if this wiggling out is considered to be acceptable variability. I never touch the amp except to turn on or switch headphones, but the tubes would still randomly unseat, so that there is either distortion or one channel would go out. !!! A bit disappointed that the lyr would experience such problems when none of my other cheaper amps did.




I am not surprised about your laptops adaptor. They are switching power supplies and can dump a lot of noise pollution into AC lines and audio equipment especially if they are aftermarket ones. A tube socket has its individual pin sockets designed with a wider mouth to more easily along the tube. If the pins do not get firmly seated they can work out and as I mentioned the stock ones took some force. You should not be able to wiggle them with light force of a finger on their tips. I would also recommend using nitrile or latex gloves to get a could grip for installing or removing, Fully seated tubes cannot be removed with your bare fingers in the a Lyr in my experience as you cannot get enough of the top to grip unless you have very narrow fingers. And even them they take some rocking to remove.


----------



## ThurstonX

mark-sf said:


> I am not surprised about your laptops adaptor. They are switching power supplies and can dump a lot of noise pollution into AC lines and audio equipment especially if they are aftermarket ones. A tube socket has its individual pin sockets designed with a wider mouth to more easily along the tube. If the pins do not get firmly seated they can work out and as I mentioned the stock ones took some force. You should not be able to wiggle them with light force of a finger on their tips. I would also recommend using nitrile or latex gloves to get a could grip for installing or removing, Fully seated tubes cannot be removed with your bare fingers in the a Lyr in my experience as you cannot get enough of the top to grip unless you have very narrow fingers. And even them they take some rocking to remove.


 
  
 I just got *a pair of these* at Food Lion for $3.50 on an impulse buy.  Nice and grippy, and should work well for those with Lyrs who don't use socket savers.  A little gentle back-and-forth rocking to loosen the tube in the socket, then relatively easy extraction.  And those grippy gloves can be used in other tasks, too, of course.
  
 Still recommend Tubemonger socket savers, if you're going to roll often.  Being rather fastidious about my tubes, I have another pair of light-weight knit work gloves with small rubber nubs on the fingers and palms (CVS impulse buy .  Makes handling tubes easy, and keeps the fingerprints off.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sdir said:


> I couldn't find anything regarding the amp on the card ,other than the amp chip uses a "Texas Instrument 6120A2 (120dB DAC, 80mW into 600 ohm)".




Actually the Modi>Vali would've an excellent combination for your 650's, next step would be the Valhalla 2 with the Bifrost. Great matches with Sennies and should rock your world vs. 80mW output, what resistance is that into 50, 32 ohms?


----------



## Sdir

wildcatsare1 said:


> Actually the Modi>Vali would've an excellent combination for your 650's, next step would be the Valhalla 2 with the Bifrost. Great matches with Sennies and should rock your world vs. 80mW output, what resistance is that into 50, 32 ohms?


 

 Any particular reason you recommended a tube amp over a solid state amp?


----------



## money4me247

my issue with distortion has been resolved thanks to Nick at schiit tech support & all the suggestions of everyone here. Thank you guys so much for your help & I am now happily enjoying my lyr 2 amplifier!!!! !


----------



## Billheiser

money4me247 said:


> my issue with distortion has been resolved thanks to Nick at schiit tech support & all the suggestions of everyone here. Thank you guys so much for your help & I am now happily enjoying my lyr 2 amplifier!!!! !



What was the solution?


----------



## money4me247

billheiser said:


> What was the solution?


 
 It was a problem with the tube seating as I suspected since most lyr owners state that their tubes fit so tightly it is difficult to remove them. My tube pins were bent outward, so they wouldn't set down properly & would randomly wiggly dance every once in a while causing the distortion. I couldn't really seat them down very tightly as I don't think the pins were properly fitting into the socket. Using pliers I was able to straighten the tubes following this instruction video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh7PrUu9u84)
  
 My tubes now currently sit so tightly in the socket, I can't even remove them when I tried later today as I ran into some random new "warbling-type" distortion when I started up my amp fresh. Not sure what that was caused by, but it's probably my tubes again as it resolved after I fiddled with them in the socket a bit more. Got a bit unlucky with these tubes I think, but when the amp is working properly, they do sound quite amazing. mann, it was a long weekend trying to figure everything out hahah. just glad they are working.


----------



## Themorganlett85

commtrd said:


> That combination will rock your world. What dac?


 
 I'll be getting the Gungnir.


----------



## davidflas

themorganlett85 said:


> I'll be getting the Gungnir.


 
  
  
 Welcome to the club, and happy listening!


----------



## Themorganlett85

davidflas said:


> Welcome to the club, and happy listening!


 
 Oh I've been in the club for a month or so I got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost. I was just talking about my next endeavor into the audiophile world.


----------



## davidflas

themorganlett85 said:


> Oh I've been in the club for a month or so I got the Valhalla 2 and the Uber Bifrost. I was just talking about my next endeavor into the audiophile world.




I love my Gungnir, even after 2 years, it's the last component I would let go.


----------



## rmullins08

Just placed an order the other night for a Vali.  Going to stick with the Modi/Magni/Wyrd/Sys on my PC system.  Vali (and eventually Mani when it is released) will be used on my turntable.


----------



## MrGoat

Been a happy little schiit owner for a couple of months now. The modi+magni stack has worked well for my Hd650s, but I decided to splurge a bit and see if the Asgard 2 is worth the upgrade. Just got done comparing the Asgard 2 and the Magni, and if anything it makes me more impressed with the magni. The magni and the asgard have the same sound signature that is very obvious, the asgard 2 is more rich and detailed if anything, but the difference is pretty small. The Asgard 2 has more body to it and smoother highs for sure, it  just has more power behind it and makes the HD650's sound good at a wider range of volume, and of course can go much louder than the magni allowed it to and still sound amazing. The Magni past a certain point would just start to sound too harsh if cranked up too loud. The asgard of course has a better build quality, the volume knob is very smooth and works well when compared to the magni knob. Overall im happy with the upgrade, it has more power, and a slight increase in sound quality. 
  
 I might have to start saving for a bifrost to replace the modi, as of right now the modi looks like a little hat for my Asgard. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 For now though, this modi+asgard2 combo is absolutely amazing. Very happy with the products schiit is putting out, this is SO good!


----------



## rids57

Yeah, I was just about to pull the trigger on an Asgard 2 to drive my HD 650's but Electromod, the UK distributor just cranked the price up to £250 which works out at $407 which is a joke.


----------



## D Smith

I just got the Modi/Magni combo and am very impressed with the clarity of sound and the quality of construction.  I just need to find short jumper cables now. The fat cables I have now take up more space than the units!


----------



## CH23

d smith said:


> I just got the Modi/Magni combo and am very impressed with the clarity of sound and the quality of construction.  I just need to find short jumper cables now. The fat cables I have now take up more space than the units!




Schiit has jumper cables, called the "pyst"


----------



## D Smith

ch23 said:


> Schiit has jumper cables, called the "pyst"


 
 Thanks.  After checking the local sources here I was unable to find anything shorter than 3 feet, so I'll be getting the short ones from Schiit. It's surprising how much the high end cables were running for.  One pair retailed nearly as high as the Magni.


----------



## money4me247

d smith said:


> Thanks.  After checking the local sources here I was unable to find anything shorter than 3 feet, so I'll be getting the short ones from Schiit. It's surprising how much the high end cables were running for.  One pair retailed nearly as high as the Magni.


 
 those crazy expensive cables are sucha scam (imo). hahah


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Money, wish you lived near Nashville, I would love to let you AB the stock cable on the Alpha Dog versus the Norne Vanquish and HE560 versus the Draug 2, not blinded, open, so I could watch your biases crumble. 

Many years ago, when young and inexperienced I let Flatearthers influence my opinions about cables and amps, then started to experience the differences, some significant others not so, and revised my opinions accordingly. Feckless idiots and garage lurkers like NWAVguy come along every decade or so, miserable, hateful jerks who thrive on conflict. Don't know if he was picked on, a bed wetter, or where his self-perception was damaged, but his type get off on nefarious, divisive hate-mongering, and Hell bent destruction of those perceived as threats, more successful, better looking, whatever triggered his phallic envy. Money, find a better Man or Woman to follow.....IMO....


----------



## madwolfa

Just ordered some custom handmade cable for my LCD-2 from eBay for $69.95 (not a chinese knock-off, just some guy from Wisconsin making them at home, I guess):
  
10 feet of Canare Mini Quad cable, 1/4" Furutech Premium connector, Neutrik mini 4pin XLR for Audeze headphones. Made with Cardas Quad solder and well reinforced joints.
  
 I think that's reasonable price for something like that - longer, well made, better looking cable with quality components. Anything more expensive is plain ripoff, IMO. 
 And of course I'm not expecting any audio miracles from it as well as any other cable 10x the price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 That's not to start (yet) another cable debate...


----------



## Wildcatsare1

madwolfa said:


> Just ordered some custom handmade cable for my LCD-2 from eBay for $69.95 (not a chinese knock-off, just some guy from Wisconsin making them at home, I guess):
> 
> 10 feet of Canare Mini Quad cable, 1/4" Furutech Premium connector, Neutrik mini 4pin XLR for Audeze headphones. Made with Cardas Quad solder and well reinforced joints.
> 
> ...


 
 Damn, I am itching for a good cable debate........but the horse does have a sore heine, so maybe another day......


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

money4me247 said:


> those crazy expensive cables are sucha scam


 
  
 ftfy


----------



## BeatsWork

madwolfa said:


> Just ordered some custom handmade cable for my LCD-2 from eBay for $69.95 (not a chinese knock-off, just some guy from Wisconsin making them at home, I guess):
> 
> 10 feet of Canare Mini Quad cable, 1/4" Furutech Premium connector, Neutrik mini 4pin XLR for Audeze headphones. Made with Cardas Quad solder and well reinforced joints.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What would be the ultimate non-coloring conductor if you weren't worried about EMI?  Just for grins I'm tempted to take 4 RCA male plugs and run the lowest gauge solid copper wire I can find.  Just curious how it would sound (yes expecting bad EMI but who knows?)


----------



## madwolfa

beatswork said:


> What would be the ultimate non-coloring conductor if you weren't worried about EMI?  Just for grins I'm tempted to take 4 RCA male plugs and run the lowest gauge solid copper wire I can find.  Just curious how it would sound (yes expecting bad EMI but who knows?)


 
  
 Just found it...
  
Regular and superconducting cables for 12,500 amperes used at LEP (top) and Large Hadron Collider (bottom) respectively.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

beatswork said:


> What would be the ultimate non-coloring conductor if you weren't worried about EMI?  Just for grins I'm tempted to take 4 RCA male plugs and run the lowest gauge solid copper wire I can find.  Just curious how it would sound (yes expecting bad EMI but who knows?)


 
 You can get shielded cable from Toxic, Norne or DHC to build a mega cable with, have been told that you can avoid the tizziness (technical term) of silver by varying the litz diameter of the silver mixed with OCC copper. If you can afford it, you could create a veritable garden hose cable


----------



## timpicks

Great find on this seller.  I was tired of looking at $250+ cables for my HE-500's, but he has one in stock for $46.  Cheap enough to try out for sure!


----------



## BeatsWork

madwolfa said:


> Just found it...
> 
> Regular and superconducting cables for 12,500 amperes used at LEP (top) and Large Hadron Collider (bottom) respectively.


 
  
 Don't be daft.  Where would I keep the liquid helium?


----------



## madwolfa

beatswork said:


> Don't be daft.  Where would I keep the liquid helium?


 
  
 I think I have a business idea...


----------



## ThurstonX

madwolfa said:


> I think I have a business idea...


 
  
 Let's raise some funds on the InterWebs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 WTH is @StanD?!  This is right up his alley.


----------



## BeatsWork

madwolfa said:


> I think I have a business idea...


 
  


thurstonx said:


> Let's raise some funds on the InterWebs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 #KICKSTARTER #CryoCables  
  
 Why settle for cryogenically  treated cables when you have cryogenic superconducting interconnects? Cooled to a blistering -425 Fahrenheit these babies will let you hear beads of sweat as they drip off the saxist's brow.
  
 1st 100 backers at introductory pledge of $40,000 will receive a custom set of titanium cable risers hand cast and blessed by Franciscan monks.
  
 Caution: Cables are directional and improper use may generate God Particles. Customers improperly using CryoCables as Coax/BNC to DAC have reported hearing Elvis.


----------



## ThurstonX

beatswork said:


> #KICKSTARTER #CryoCables
> 
> Why settle for cryogenically  treated cables when you have cryogenic superconducting interconnects? Cooled to a blistering -425 Fahrenheit these babies will let you hear beads of sweat as they drip off the saxist's brow.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't take this the wrong way, but I love you, man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Time to go dream of the God Particle Interconnects (Trademark *us*)


----------



## Chozart

beatswork said:


> #KICKSTARTER #CryoCables
> 
> Why settle for cryogenically  treated cables when you have cryogenic superconducting interconnects? Cooled to a blistering -425 Fahrenheit these babies will let you hear beads of sweat as they drip off the saxist's brow.
> 
> ...


 

 I think I'd rather settle for the PYST from Schiit for $20....  I still hear Elvis with them though! (well, as long as I play his music that is.)


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Let's raise some funds on the InterWebs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lamp cord should do fine, brown zip cord can be had at any hardware store. For the style conscious, I believe it comes in clear or white. If it can carry enough power to light up an incandescent light bulb, it can light up your cans.


----------



## crazychile

stand said:


> Lamp cord should do fine, brown zip cord can be had at any hardware store. For the style conscious, I believe it comes in clear or white. If it can carry enough power to light up an incandescent light bulb, it can light up your cans.


 

 The brown has sort of a chocolatey sweet sound to it. I find the white to be a bit too bright sounding for my tastes. You'd think the clear would be the most neutral, but it discolors over time and gets all cloudy sounding.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Lamp cord should do fine, brown zip cord can be had at any hardware store. For the style conscious, I believe it comes in clear or white. If it can carry enough power to light up an incandescent light bulb, it can light up your cans.


 
  
  


crazychile said:


> The brown has sort of a chocolatey sweet sound to it. I find the white to be a bit too bright sounding for my tastes. You'd think the clear would be the most neutral, but it discolors over time and gets all cloudy sounding.


 
 Chocolate  won't work for anyone that's trying to lose weight. Maybe we can find a premium clear cable that won't age badly.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Lamp cord should do fine, brown zip cord can be had at any hardware store. For the style conscious, I believe it comes in clear or white. If it can carry enough power to light up an incandescent light bulb, it can light up your cans.


 
  
 I knew you'd come through 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It'll be like that show (or shows) where someone bottles up the town water and sells it back as "natural spring water," making a killing in the process (definitely saw that in Only Fools and Horses, but also.... Family Guy?).  I volunteer to decorate our new WunderKabel in more appropriately chic stylings.  Hell, maybe we can get Apple to buy a boatload, if it looks hip enough.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> I knew you'd come through
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm, I'd make cables for iBeats cans and instead of terminating them with a TRS plug, I'd use two of these for balanced cables.


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> Hmmm, I'd make cables for iBeats cans and instead of terminating them with a TRS plug, I'd use two of these for balanced cables.


 
  
 Such a US-centric view.  What about all the non-US iBeats that would benefit from this balanced cable? Forced to use adapter?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I like where this thread went


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> Such a US-centric view.  What about all the non-US iBeats that would benefit from this balanced cable? Forced to use adapter?


 
 And you will overpay for it and be happy. That's the marketing plan, "It's a privilege to get Beat."


----------



## swspiers

I really hope one of you objective-types is buying a Ragnarok!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Surely not, their O2 and ODAC are perfect sound forever, don't you know all well designed amps sound the same swspieres !


----------



## swspiers

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^Surely not, their O2 and ODAC are perfect sound forever, don't you know all well designed amps sound the same swspieres !




After about 30 years of chasing my tail regarding amps, I have found that they really, truly do.

Assuming volume and impedance matching, of course.


----------



## money4me247

swspiers said:


> After about 30 years of chasing my tail regarding amps, I have found that they really, truly do. Assuming volume and impedance matching, of course.


 
 I would assume that the sonic differences between most well-designed amps are quite small as they generally strive for audio transparency. The only caveat is with perhaps tube amps that introduce intentionally coloration. I did notice a big sound difference between the Bravo V3 and the Lyr 2. The Bravo V3 w/ stock tubes was actually more neutral and bass-light and the Lyr 2 w/ stock tubes gave a really nice bass boost that was perfect for my HE-560 (which I thought was a bit bass-light when I first received them).
  
 Note I am not sure if this effect is from the tubes or the increased power as I am not sure if the Bravo V3 really puts out enough power to adequately drive the HE-560s. The sonic differences between the Bravo V3 and Lyr 2 for my HE-400 was a lot smaller.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

wildcatsare1 said:


> don't you know all well designed amps sound the same swspieres !


 
  
 If they don't then they are not well designed *( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)*


----------



## wilflare

I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Stack for my PC and PS4 - just some questions that I hope to hear some opinions.
  
 would the Schiit Stack
 (1) be better than my Audinst HUD-MX1
 (2) be better than my Sound Blaster Z? (can I use my Sound Blaster Z purely as a DSP and output to Schiit Stack and keep the surround signal etc)
 (3) be a good complement to my Astro Mixamp Pro for PS4? (was thinking of using the Magni as an amp!)
  
 thank you!


----------



## Billheiser

money4me247 said:


> I would assume that the sonic differences between most well-designed amps are quite small as they generally strive for audio transparency. The only caveat is with perhaps tube amps that introduce intentionally coloration. I did notice a big sound difference between the Bravo V3 and the Lyr 2. The Bravo V3 w/ stock tubes was actually more neutral and bass-light and the Lyr 2 w/ stock tubes gave a really nice bass boost that was perfect for my HE-560 (which I thought was a bit bass-light when I first received them).
> 
> Note I am not sure if this effect is from the tubes or the increased power as I am not sure if the Bravo V3 really puts out enough power to adequately drive the HE-560s. The sonic differences between the Bravo V3 and Lyr 2 for my HE-400 was a lot smaller.


 
 The tube/solid state hybrid Lyr 2 is spec'ed at 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, -0.1 dB.  I'm not familiar with the Bravo but I'm thinking the Lyr 2 is likely to be the more neutral one and truthful one.


----------



## KLJTech

blackenedplague said:


> If they don't then they are not well designed *( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)*


 
  
 That would be a very interesting topic to discuss with someone like Nelson Pass or John Curl on another popular forum. I imagine that they'd would just love to enlighten on the subject.


----------



## money4me247

billheiser said:


> The tube/solid state hybrid Lyr 2 is spec'ed at 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz, -0.1 dB.  I'm not familiar with the Bravo but I'm thinking the Lyr 2 is likely to be the more neutral one and truthful one.


 
 I think the Lyr 2 definitely has better sound quality and better general accuracy/clarity. However, the difference in bass & sound signature was quite apparent between the two amps. Lyr 2 had more powerful, more impact bass notes. A significant bass emphasis in the Lyr 2 compared to my Bravo V3. Perhaps that is the real 'neutral,' but I tend to think of neutral as the flattest sound signature, which I felt like the Bravo V3 had. The bravo v3's bass presentation was definitely weaker and its general sound signature was not as enjoyable pairing with the HE-560. I enjoyed the Lyr 2's presentation of sound with the HE-560 much better.
  
 In my personal experience & from detailed comparison.


----------



## Billheiser

money4me247 said:


> I think the Lyr 2 definitely has better sound quality and better general accuracy/clarity. However, the difference in bass & sound signature was quite apparent between the two amps. Lyr 2 had more powerful, more impact bass notes. A significant bass emphasis in the Lyr 2 compared to my Bravo V3. Perhaps that is the real 'neutral,' but I tend to think of neutral as the flattest sound signature, which I felt like the Bravo V3 had. The bravo v3's bass presentation was definitely weaker and its general sound signature was not as enjoyable pairing with the HE-560. I enjoyed the Lyr 2's presentation of sound with the HE-560 much better.
> 
> In my personal experience & from detailed comparison.


 
 Appreciate the experience and detailed comparison.  We're agreeing that the Lyr 2 is more accurate and powerful and neutral - so that means the flattest, too.  Thus, the Lyr 2 did not add bass emphasis, it showed what is there.  And the weaker bass presentation of the Bravo means it's tapered off and therefore not neutral/flat.


----------



## money4me247

billheiser said:


> Appreciate the experience and detailed comparison.  We're agreeing that the Lyr 2 is more accurate and powerful and neutral - so that means the flattest, too.  Thus, the Lyr 2 did not add bass emphasis, it showed what is there.  And the weaker bass presentation of the Bravo means it's tapered off and therefore not neutral/flat.


 
 lol sure, if it makes you feel better to think about it that way. the bravo v3 sounds more neutral with every aspect of the frequency response having the same emphasis, but is bass-light for my preferences. The bass isn't tapered off as the headphones still extends down to the low sub-bass the same, there is just less emphasis on the bass. You can call it "bass-light" instead if that makes you feel better. The lyr 2 sounds bass-heavy and has a small but definite emphasis to the bass over the other frequencies, but sure, you can call this the 'real neutral.' It's really just a relative difference of sound signature that you can describe however you like. Note this is done on the pretty neutral HE-560, so 'bass-heavy' here is still less bass than the unamped ATH-M50x.
  
 so sure, you can call Bravo V3 bass-light and Lyr 2 neutral, and that may even be technically true, but that's definitely not what it sounds like. It sounds like the Bravo V3's sound signature is very flat with no particular emphasis on any particular frequency response and the Lyr 2 has a definite warmer sound with a pleasant bass-emphasis. Hence, the way I wrote my statements. I think it's funny how people are so concerned with 'neutral' & assume neutral = better, but it's really just a relative term. I wish I had some other amps to do more comparisons. 
  
 I am definitely not saying the V3 outperforms the Lyr2 or sounds better. Just commenting on sound signature differences.


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> lol sure, if it makes you feel better to think about it that way. the bravo v3 sounds more neutral with every aspect of the frequency response having the same emphasis, but is bass-light for my preferences. The bass isn't tapered off as the headphones still extends down to the low sub-bass the same, there is just less emphasis on the bass. You can call it "bass-light" instead if that makes you feel better. The lyr 2 sounds bass-heavy and has a small but definite emphasis to the bass over the other frequencies, but sure, you can call this the 'real neutral.' It's really just a relative difference of sound signature that you can describe however you like. Note this is done on the pretty neutral HE-560, so 'bass-heavy' here is still less bass than the unamped ATH-M50x.
> 
> so sure, you can call Bravo V3 bass-light and Lyr 2 neutral, and that may even be technically true, but that's definitely not what it sounds like. It sounds like the Bravo V3's sound signature is very flat with no particular emphasis on any particular frequency response and the Lyr 2 has a definite warmer sound with a pleasant bass-emphasis. Hence, the way I wrote my statements. I think it's funny how people are so concerned with 'neutral' & assume neutral = better, but it's really just a relative term. I wish I had some other amps to do more comparisons.
> 
> I am definitely not saying the V3 outperforms the Lyr2 or sounds better. Just commenting on sound signature differences.


 
 Bravo amps have a very low price (cheap) as a design goal. As a consequence design decisions are constrained by this choice.  The output is coupled by a capacitor which does not bode well for bass. The output driver uses a voltage regulator as a linear current load, not what the chip was intended for. Not to mention what looks like poor build quality. Switches and  jacks, etc. held in place by PCB solder joints is just asking for trouble. The Ocean looks to be built differently.
  
 The Lyr2 is DC coupled and has a careful design that is both linear and low in noise. The power rails and biasing are not a low voltage compromise as in Bravo designs. The FR is flat, so I don't see how anyone could say bass heavy or anything like that. IMO, comparing it to something that might be bass lite doesn't make it bass heavy. It costs more for good reasons.


----------



## ziggym123

Anybody running B&W P7's w the Lyr 2?


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> Bravo amps have a very low price (cheap) as a design goal. As a consequence design decisions are constrained by this choice.  The output is coupled by a capacitor which does not bode well for bass. The output driver uses a voltage regulator as a linear current load, not what the chip was intended for. Not to mention what looks like poor build quality. Switches and  jacks, etc. held in place by PCB solder joints is just asking for trouble. The Ocean looks to be built differently.
> 
> The Lyr2 is DC coupled and has a careful design that is both linear and low in noise. The power rails and biasing are not a low voltage compromise as in Bravo designs. The FR is flat, so I don't see how anyone could say bass heavy or anything like that. IMO, comparing it to something that might be bass lite doesn't make it bass heavy. It costs more for good reasons.


 
 lol sure, all that technical stuff may be true & I definitely believe that more thought and effort was put into the Lyr2's design. You can see it from the beautiful chassis. Honestly, I don't have the background to really talk about amplifiers intelligently in a technical sense. I can only speak to my personal experiences. My Lyr 2 picks up a ton of interference & noise from random electronics (such as one of my AC adapters) while the Bravo V3 never had any sort of issue like that. I sent a day isolating the cause of interference and another day purchasing stuff to alleviate the issue for the better-designed amp. My Lyr has also been displaying random intermittent crackling, which was kinda alleviated by straightening the tube pins, but has now reappeared significantly in one channel. So my personal experiences makes me a bit iffy about your statement saying how careful the design is and the noise. My perspective is obviously skewed d/t the problems I encountered. I feel like I got unlucky because I've never heard of anyone else running into those sorts of issues. 
  
 Say what you will about the Bravo V3's technical design, but that thing just worked and never had any issues. The sonic differences between the V3 and Lyr2 for the HE-400 was pretty subtle. However, the Lyr 2 is an extremely significant sonic upgrade from the V3 for the HE-560. Sound signature, sound quality... everything. So I would still highly recommend it for the specific pairing with the HE-560 and I can see it being very good for higher-end headphones. I just don't ascribe to the mentality that just because something is pricier, it auto-outperforms everything cheaper.


----------



## JensKristian

I just aquired the HD650's and I'm looking to buy the Modi + Magni combo to run along with it. Looking forward to that very much.


----------



## huberd

I bet that will sound real nice!! I heard the HD650's with the Valhalla and the Asgard2 they sound great with both amps.


----------



## dotpeek

I just ordered the Magni/Modi directly from the Schiit website, can anyone tell me how long it took for them to ship it out?
  
 I sent them an email about a question with my order on a Monday morning and haven't gotten anything back all day.


----------



## Rem0o

dotpeek said:


> I just ordered the Magni/Modi directly from the Schiit website, can anyone tell me how long it took for them to ship it out?
> 
> I sent them an email about a question with my order on a Monday morning and haven't gotten anything back all day.


 
STATUS: In stock. Orders placed now will ship in 1-3 business days.


----------



## dotpeek

rem0o said:


> STATUS: In stock. Orders placed now will ship in 1-3 business days.


 
 Well my gripe was more over the email not being responded to, and was just asking for people's past experiences, but yes, I do see that. Thank you  lol


----------



## superjawes

Email is usually very fast.

Side note, there's still a backorder on the optical Modis.


----------



## rmullins08

Got my Vali in the mail today. Now just need Mani to come out to complete my turntable setup.


----------



## ejwiles

dotpeek said:


> I just ordered the Magni/Modi directly from the Schiit website, can anyone tell me how long it took for them to ship it out?
> 
> I sent them an email about a question with my order on a Monday morning and haven't gotten anything back all day.


 
 Based on my experience, they'll probably ship tomorrow.  Time goes much slower when you're waiting for new gear to arrive...


----------



## wilflare

has anyone ordered them directly to ship to Singapore?
 thinking of getting the 
 Schiit Modi Optical
 Schiit Magni
 Schiit SYS
  
 thinking of the PYST cables too >< since there's no Monoprice here in Singapore


----------



## huberd

I remember when I ordered they shipped very quickly like next day or same day.


----------



## huberd

You can't beat their gear even for the price and beyond. I have compared it with other equipment and Schiit stuff sounds better.


----------



## MrGoat

Been enjoying the new Bifrost uber all day. The upgrade from the Modi+magni to the Bifrost uber+Asgard 2 is certainly worth it. I am very happy with how my HD650's sound


----------



## Rossliew

Best value and most versatile is the Vali, period.


----------



## Zojokkeli

jenskristian said:


> I just aquired the HD650's and I'm looking to buy the Modi + Magni combo to run along with it. Looking forward to that very much.


 
  
 If you're planning to stay with the HD 650's for some time and don't have sensitive headphones you plan to use with the set, I'd get Vali instead of Magni.


----------



## kothganesh

zojokkeli said:


> If you're planning to stay with the HD 650's for some time and don't have sensitive headphones you plan to use with the set, I'd get Vali instead of Magni.



+1. IMO, you can even get the HD 800 and not need to upgrade the Vali.


----------



## superjawes

I've actually been using Magni with my HD600s for a few days, and it still sounds pretty darn good. I'll sometimes be at my computer for hours on end, so I think I'll probably stick with this combination unless I want to kick back and just listen to music (in which case I'll use the Valhalla).

If you were buying a new amp for a HD600/650, definitely look into Vali, but I don't think you'd be disappointed with Magni.


----------



## dotpeek

ejwiles said:


> Based on my experience, they'll probably ship tomorrow.  Time goes much slower when you're waiting for new gear to arrive...


 
 And you'd be correct. They got back to my email first thing in the morning and I have my tracking number. Now just to chew my fingers off in excitement as I wait for them to reach my front door


----------



## Byronb

dotpeek said:


> And you'd be correct. They got back to my email first thing in the morning and I have my tracking number. Now just to chew my fingers off in excitement as I wait for them to reach my front door


 
 Waiting is the worst!!!


----------



## kothganesh

dotpeek said:


> And you'd be correct. They got back to my email first thing in the morning and I have my tracking number. Now just to chew my fingers off in excitement as I wait for them to reach my front door


 
 Pencils are tastier (from personal experience)


----------



## rids57

Got my Modi and Vali with Pyst interconnects in the mail this morning - my HD650's are almost as happy as I am


----------



## Rossliew

rids57 said:


> Got my Modi and Vali with Pyst interconnects in the mail this morning - my HD650's are almost as happy as I am


 
 A very good choice of equipment!


----------



## rids57

I did have my doubts initially, the Modi was picking up a lot of interference and the Vali had very bad channel imbalance (balance needed to be pushed 40% to the right in MusicBee).
 Sorted the first problem by moving my router, dead silent now.
 Second problem seems to be going away as the amp burns in, after four hours it was down to 20% and is already down to 10%, so I'm hoping it will go away entirely.
  
 I'm totally blown away by the sound, far better than I was hoping for. I've been using an Aune T1 and an Asus Essence STX up until now and the M&V stack is a very noticeable improvement over both.


----------



## dotpeek

Been messing with my Magni and Modi all afternoon, got bored and decided to plug in a pair of Sony XB500's...My head is still spinning from the thumping haha..
  
 Magni + XB500's + A Tribe Called Quest = Dizziness


----------



## JHern

Still curious about Schiit products, especially amps, but not happy with the necessity of using a step-up transformer for non-US voltage (i.e., Japan). Anyone have any luck using this Schiit outside the USA?


----------



## Rossliew

I use Schiit stuff - Mjolnir, Magni, Vali, Modi & Bifrost Uber (all at 230V). All good!


----------



## kothganesh

rossliew said:


> I use Schiit stuff - Mjolnir, Magni, Vali, Modi & Bifrost Uber (all at 230V). All good!


 
 +1. Have the Gungnir as well (all at 230V).
  
 Edit: and did I mention Asgard and Lyr ?


----------



## Rossliew

kothganesh said:


> +1. Have the Gungnir as well (all at 230V).
> 
> Edit: and did I mention Asgard and Lyr ?


 
 Lol...i had the Lyr twice (for one reason or another), Asgard 2 and a Valhalla too..never had the Asgard 1 before though..but i've listened to it and it sounded fabulous!


----------



## JHern

OK, so all of you use a step-up or step-down transformer to use the US voltage Schiit amps? I guess I'll get one if I have to, but I hate putting those big boxy things on my electrical plugs.


----------



## superjawes

jhern said:


> OK, so all of you use a step-up or step-down transformer to use the US voltage Schiit amps? I guess I'll get one if I have to, but I hate putting those big boxy things on my electrical plugs.


You can use one if you have to, but there are other options. Schiit builds their amps for 115 or 230 V, and the plug options include USA, Euro, Australia, and UK.

I don't know if any of those match Japan, but might be worth checking out...


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

dotpeek said:


> Been messing with my Magni and Modi all afternoon, got bored and decided to plug in a pair of Sony XB500's...My head is still spinning from the thumping haha..
> 
> Magni + XB500's + A Tribe Called Quest = Dizziness


 
  
 if it was Low End Theory then I pray you will be able to recover


----------



## dotpeek

blackenedplague said:


> if it was Low End Theory then I pray you will be able to recover


 
 It was Low End Theory. And I literally just sat there giggling. Never felt bass like that before.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

i got it on vinyl recently..... yeah my setup will never will never be the same


----------



## Rossliew

I'm eagerly awaiting the Mani's arrival..just got a VPI Traveller TT and it has improved the sound of my vinyl collection noticeably.


----------



## wilflare

is the Magni amp a step-up from the soundcards? (think STX, ZX, ZXR, etc)


----------



## Dill

HI gang

Wont bore ya all with my personal headfi journey over the last couple of years, suffice to say I'm a speakers man thru and thru with a decent set up. However changes in my available living space necessitated storage of that setup and a dive into headfi land. Had several budget type dacs and amps as I learnt my way thru this jungle. Never satisfied with any of it and had come to the conclusion headphones simply were not as enjoyable as my stereo - and never could be. I even auditioned several high end dacs and amps costing over 1000 US dollars. Nada. Not enough power..scale...vibrancy..... realism. Everything I heard sounded small scale and not at all dynamic.

Then a month ago I heard a Schiit Asgard 2 at my mate's - and could not believe my ears. There it was. Spectacular. Bought one next day from Electromod as I'm in the UK. Great I now had power. But ouch still not quiet there though. The next week I bought the Bifrost Uber USB. Magical. Immense. Sounds as good as my stereo setup..at last! 

I'm now bangin' the toons..everything I listen to is just so fresh. This sleeper has awoken. And all it took was a li'l bit of Schiit.

I'm using Senn HD650 and also now LCD 2.2 pre fazor. Senns are now real headphones...sublime. LCDs work great but I reckon they will be even better with more power.


----------



## Eee Pee

rossliew said:


> I'm eagerly awaiting the Mani's arrival..just got a VPI Traveller TT and it has improved the sound of my vinyl collection noticeably.


 
  
 Check me out.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 Vali.  There's a Soundsmith phono under there too.  Grado Sonata.


----------



## Eee Pee

dill said:


> I'm now bangin' the toons..everything I listen to is just so fresh. This sleeper has awoken. And all it took was a li'l bit of Schiit.
> 
> I'm using Senn HD650 and also now LCD 2.2 pre fazor. Senns are now real headphones...sublime. LCDs work great but I reckon they will be even better with more power.


 
  
 Right on, mate.  Now kick it up a notch with the Mjolnir!  Talk about alive!  Senn's 600s and 650s are awesome!


----------



## Dill

eee pee said:


> Right on, mate.  Now kick it up a notch with the Mjolnir!  Talk about alive!  Senn's 600s and 650s are awesome!




Lol. Indeed Ee Pee man, indeed. I'm gonna enjoy this setup for a while methinks! At some point I will no doubt hanker for just a li'l more - and the mighty Mjolnir will come a calling. Maybe summat even bigger for those LCDs.


----------



## commtrd

dill said:


> HI gang
> 
> Wont bore ya all with my personal headfi journey over the last couple of years, suffice to say I'm a speakers man thru and thru with a decent set up. However changes in my available living space necessitated storage of that setup and a dive into headfi land. Had several budget type dacs and amps as I learnt my way thru this jungle. Never satisfied with any of it and had come to the conclusion headphones simply were not as enjoyable as my stereo - and never could be. I even auditioned several high end dacs and amps costing over 1000 US dollars. Nada. Not enough power..scale...vibrancy..... realism. Everything I heard sounded small scale and not at all dynamic.
> 
> ...



Just try a Mjolnir/Gungnir stack. Sorry for your wallet though...


----------



## 45longcolt

Hi Dill -
  
 Don't neglect to try the Bifrost in your speakers system - bet you'll hear the difference.
  
 And lucky you, living in London. Perhaps my favorite city.


----------



## Rossliew

eee pee said:


> Check me out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hahaha...i got the more recent version..boy, does this baby sound good! Now, i'm wondering how the Scout or Classic models will sound...oh yeah, am using a DIY phonostage with a Clearaudio MC cart


----------



## Dill

45longcolt said:


> Hi Dill -
> 
> Don't neglect to try the Bifrost in your speakers system - bet you'll hear the difference.
> 
> And lucky you, living in London. Perhaps my favorite city.




Hi mate

Yeah carn't complain, I've been based in central London all my life - trendy Shoreditch to be precise - and you could still not see all of my home town with 5 lifetimes! But I also have a traveller's soul and love other places as much...Brighton is actually my favourite town in the UK.

Sadly, temporary residence in another town on the south coast of England means I cannot use my speaker setup at all..so the Bifrost will have to wait a bit for use as a DAC in my speaker system. 

I'm going to enjoy the wondrous sound I have only now discovered thru headphones without worrying about future upgraditis. When that time comes, I suspect I will be ready for my own endgame gear- at the level of the Gungnir/Mjolnir/Ragnarok. 

Now, where are those fabulous two Joy Division 24/192 remastered albums? Oh yeah..here they are. Press Play.


----------



## 45longcolt

I've always enjoyed the English tradition of joining two common words to make a place name - shore + ditch = Shoreditch. Or Knightsbridge, Oxford, Blackfriars, Whitehall, Mayfair, Hogwarts...
  
 From personal experience I can recommend the Gungnir-Mjolnir-LCD3 package. And since Gungnir has three outputs, it can feed the speakers and HP set-ups with no unplugging.


----------



## Dill

45longcolt said:


> I've always enjoyed the English tradition of joining two common words to make a place name - shore + ditch = Shoreditch. Or Knightsbridge, Oxford, Blackfriars, Whitehall, Mayfair, Hogwarts...
> 
> From personal experience I can recommend the Gungnir-Mjolnir-LCD3 package. And since Gungnir has three outputs, it can feed the speakers and HP set-ups with no unplugging.




Haha! Indeed, it's a very olde English tradition. Although London itself comes from the Roman, Londinium. 

A total balanced system will indeed be my ultimate goal and your system is one I would happily live in.


----------



## sling5s

Lyr 2 compared to the Lyr 1 is so much more detailed and transparent.  Love the improvement.  
 The only thing is, I think I liked the volume knob of the Lyr 1 better than the Lyr 2. Just a preference.


----------



## money4me247

sling5s said:


> Lyr 2 compared to the Lyr 1 is so much more detailed and transparent.  Love the improvement.
> The only thing is, I think I liked the volume knob of the Lyr 1 better than the Lyr 2. Just a preference.


 
 lol what's the difference? lol the first thing i noticed about my lyr 2 was how nice the volume knob was hahaha. just felt like fiddling with it all day. =P


----------



## sling5s

money4me247 said:


> lol what's the difference? lol the first thing i noticed about my lyr 2 was how nice the volume knob was hahaha. just felt like fiddling with it all day. =P


 

 It's got to look good as it sounds.


----------



## paulcs

I got my fifth Schiit device yesterday: a Bifrost Uber for use with my Lyr. I guess it's time to post here. I haven't had much time with the Bifrost, but my initial impressions are very positive. It also looks great with the Lyr and the too of them keep my room warm in the evening.


----------



## jexby

sling5s said:


> Lyr 2 compared to the Lyr 1 is so much more detailed and transparent.  Love the improvement.
> The only thing is, I think I liked the volume knob of the Lyr 1 better than the Lyr 2. Just a preference.


 
  
 I owned the Lyr 1 for about 6 months in 2013, and the Lyr 2 for the past 2 months and recall no difference between the knobs resistance or turning properties.


----------



## sling5s

I got it when it first came out but maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^I have noted that my Lyr 2 prefers to have its knob rotated by white linen gloves, whilst my Lyr 1 preferred latex.


----------



## BeatsWork

wildcatsare1 said:


> ^I have noted that my Lyr 2 prefers to have its knob rotated by white linen gloves, whilst my Lyr 1 preferred latex.


 
  
 I see this going in a very dangerous direction ......


----------



## StanD

paulcs said:


> I got my fifth Schiit device yesterday: a Bifrost Uber for use with my Lyr. I guess it's time to post here. I haven't had much time with the Bifrost, but my initial impressions are very positive. It also looks great with the Lyr and the too of them keep my room warm in the evening.


 
 C'mon, the Bi*Frost* doesn't get that hot.


----------



## Zojokkeli

I prefer scandinavian reindeer leather for Asgard 2.


----------



## ThurstonX

I'm lazy, so I just use the Force, Luke.


----------



## paulcs

stand said:


> C'mon, the Bi*Frost* doesn't get that hot


 
 It does when it's sitting under my Lyr. 
  
 I'm sure it's the Lyr. I felt the Bifrost last night, which again is stacked beneath my Lyr, and it was pretty hot.
  
 I'm not bothered by how hot my Lyr gets. I was but I've gotten over it.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Just think, all that power being wasted due to heat. Thanks Class A


----------



## NinjaHamster

I have to get morbidly drunk before I'll touch any knob other than my own.


----------



## StanD

ninjahamster said:


> I have to get morbidly drunk before I'll touch any knob other than my own.


 
 If you flog the knob you might exceed the threshold of pain, 120 dB SPL. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Don't want to hurt your.....ears.


----------



## 45longcolt

For anyone who finds the volume control disc on their Schiit requires excessive effort to turn (just try to make a double entendre out of that!,) check that the disc is not interfering with the faceplate. With the right allen key you can loosen the disc and bring it a bit farther out, which in many cases will solve the problem.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

45longcolt said:


> For anyone who finds the volume control disc on their Schiit requires excessive effort to turn (just try to make a double entendre out of that!,) check that the disc is not interfering with the faceplate. With the right allen key you can loosen the disc and bring it a bit farther out, which in many cases will solve the problem.




Killjoy


----------



## StanD

45longcolt said:


> For anyone who finds the volume control disc on their Schiit requires excessive effort to turn (just try to make a double entendre out of that!,) check that the disc is not interfering with the faceplate. With the right allen key you can loosen the disc and bring it a bit farther out, which in many cases will solve the problem.


 
  
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> Killjoy


 
 You'd rather flog the knob?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Well err..... Not the knob ,


----------



## StanD

While everyone is whinging about knobs, I don't like those goofy little rubber stick on feet. I find that over time, they shift position, especially when things get warm. If you ask me, they are Schiity. I bought some 3M rubber feet from Amazon that stay put and are taller for better air circulation between members of the Schiit Stack.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> While everyone is whinging about knobs, I don't like those goofy little rubber stick on feet. I find that over time, they shift position, especially when things get warm. If you ask me, they are Schiity. I bought some 3M rubber feet from Amazon that stay put and are taller for better air circulation between members of the Schiit Stack.


 
  
 +1 one for that.


----------



## reddog

stand said:


> You'd rather flog the knob?



Are we done flogging throbbing knobs yet.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> You'd rather flog the knob?


 
  
  


reddog said:


> Are we done flogging throbbing knobs yet.


 
 Yep, we've moved onto feet.


----------



## CJs06

This talk of flogging knobs is getting into hand... uuh err, I mean getting out of hand


----------



## Drazalas

My new babies!


----------



## StanD

drazalas said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations. What do you think about your new knob? Sure sounds good.


----------



## jchandler3

FYI - Jude revealed the Schiit Fulla in the latest Head-fi video. I remember rumors of if from a month or two back, but it's now official with photos and everything. $79 USB DAC/amp. 

And it has a tiny little knob for fiddling with.


----------



## kothganesh

jchandler3 said:


> FYI - Jude revealed the Schiit Fulla in the latest Head-fi video. I remember rumors of if from a month or two back, but it's now official with photos and everything. $79 USB DAC/amp.
> 
> And it has a tiny little knob for fiddling with.


 

 Oh stop being so knobbish! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just saw Jude's video. I need to do some serious shopping on Schiit's website in a few weeks !!!


----------



## CJs06

jchandler3 said:


> FYI - Jude revealed the Schiit Fulla in the latest Head-fi video. I remember rumors of if from a month or two back, but it's now official with photos and everything. $79 USB DAC/amp.
> 
> And it has a tiny little knob for fiddling with.




That was a pretty good one. That is exactly the kind of humor that gets me banned from certain Schiity threads :rolleyes:


----------



## StanD

cjs06 said:


> That was a pretty good one. That is exactly the kind of humor that gets me banned from certain Schiity threads


 
 That's what happens when you tweak your post to get a desired response. You should never spell Schiit correctly.


----------



## adamaley

Rather than talking about knobby knobs, why not talk about the Schiit Fulla. Looks like good competition for the Dragonfly and other USB dongle DACs.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/731471/2014-canjam-rmaf-october-10-12-2014-the-canjam-exhibitor-list-has-been-finalized-and-what-a-lineup/195#post_10935857


----------



## jeremy205100

I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed with the design of the Fulla. While it's beautiful, and the price is right, the design isn't practical. It should have the USB built in, like the Dragonfly. That's the only real way to do a dongle. I don't want another cable hanging out of my laptop, it's just a mess. Especially when I'm on the go. It also appears to be much bigger than the Dragonfly, which is another no no. While I think it's great Schiit was able to deliver a product that I am sure will put AudioQuest in deep Schiit (not a fan of AudioQuest), they should've made it more compact. The reason the Dragonfly is popular isn't because of its sound, it's because it's practical and compact. 
  
 I will be curious to see how Schiit does with this. Anyone know whether it'll go under the Amps or Dacs section of the site?


----------



## ThurstonX

I've scoured the InterWebs, the local, regional and state libraries, various community colleges and universities, and finally the Library of Congress in D.C., and I have found no reference to "Fulla" as relates to Norse mythology.  I'm *deeply* disappointed.  This makes me think the creators are fulla schiit.  Oh, wait...
  
  
  DAMN!  I forgot Wikipedia!   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulla


----------



## ahm12

I have a sound blaster z sound card and my headphone is Beyerdynamic dt990..
  
 I don't think sound blaster is putting out enough power to my headphones(Bass and loudness is lacking) I am considering buying a schiit Vali. 
  
 i was thinking 3.5 to RCA cable to connect sound card to amp. Do double amplification creates any problems ? considering sound blaster z also has a amplifier.


----------



## StanD

ahm12 said:


> I have a sound blaster z sound card and my headphone is Beyerdynamic dt990..
> 
> I don't think sound blaster is putting out enough power to my headphones(Bass and loudness is lacking) I am considering buying a schiit Vali.
> 
> i was thinking 3.5 to RCA cable to connect sound card to amp. Do double amplification creates any problems ? considering sound blaster z also has a amplifier.


 
 Does it have a line out? 3rd jack down is the L/R Line Out.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

all y'all need to stop being such knobheads ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> all y'all need to stop being such knobheads ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


 
 Aw, you don't know Jack Schiit.
 He works the assembly line and puts the knobs on during final *ass*embly.


----------



## CH23

stand said:


> Aw, you don't know Jack Schiit.
> He works the assembly line and puts the knobs on during final *ass*embly.




It's posts like this that really make this thread go to schiit


----------



## StanD

ch23 said:


> It's posts like this that really make this thread go to schiit


 
 Soon we'll be saying things like, "Fulla Schiit" and it'll be Jason's fault.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Soon we'll be saying things like, "Fulla Schiit" and it'll be Jason's fault.


 
  
 Well were able to squeek around profanity rules already so we can start early.
  
 I blame you Jason


----------



## Flisker

Hey guys, anybody knows since what serial number of Schiit Bifrost is there Gen 2 USB installed ? 
  
 I'am thinking about buying Bifrost and would be nice to know if it's Gen 2 USB or not.
  
 Thanks a lot 
  
 Also is Uber Analog better than Gen 2 USB ?


----------



## CJs06

stand said:


> Aw, you don't know Jack Schiit.
> He works the assembly line and puts the knobs on during final *ass*embly.



Hahahaha... He handles knobs


----------



## Billheiser

flisker said:


> Hey guys, anybody knows since what serial number of Schiit Bifrost is there Gen 2 USB installed ?
> 
> I'am thinking about buying Bifrost and would be nice to know if it's Gen 2 USB or not.
> 
> ...



Serial number won't apply here, since it's upgradable. So the first "oldest" units may have been upgraded to Gen 2 USB if the user decided to do that (that's what I did).


----------



## Flisker

billheiser said:


> Serial number won't apply here, since it's upgradable. So the first "oldest" units may have been upgraded to Gen 2 USB if the user decided to do that (that's what I did).


 
  
 Ah yes, but at certain time Schiit started selling new Bifrosts with Gen 2's.
  
 For example till serial A42500 they sold it with Gen 1 and afterward all Bifrosts had already Gen 2's. If we knew at which serial number is "breaking point" we could just look at serial number and see if it's Gen 2 or not if it's past the point where Schiit started sending new Gen 2 USB boards.
  
 Hope it makes sense


----------



## Billheiser

S





flisker said:


> Ah yes, but at certain time Schiit started selling new Bifrosts with Gen 2's.
> 
> For example till serial A42500 they sold it with Gen 1 and afterward all Bifrosts had already Gen 2's. If we knew at which serial number is "breaking point" we could just look at serial number and see if it's Gen 2 or not if it's past the point where Schiit started sending new Gen 2 USB boards.
> 
> Hope it makes sense


sure it makes sense. So I presume you're buying used, then, since if new you would be assured it's gen 2. If you have a reputable seller, ask them what version it is. 
I think there is a holographic sticker on the back of units which have Uber installed.


----------



## Flisker

billheiser said:


> S
> sure it makes sense. So I presume you're buying used, then, since if new you would be assured it's gen 2. If you have a reputable seller, ask them what version it is.
> I think there is a holographic sticker on the back of units which have Uber installed.


 
  
 Yes I'am going to get used one. I was just curious.
  
 I think it doesn't matter that much since optical input should produce better sound quality as far as I found out so far. So I could just buy used Bifrost + Uber Optical card and be done with it is that right ?


----------



## Billheiser

flisker said:


> Yes I'am going to get used one. I was just curious.
> 
> I think it doesn't matter that much since optical input should produce better sound quality as far as I found out so far. So I could just buy used Bifrost + Uber Optical card and be done with it is that right ?



Yes to your question. Although I think USB input is just as good quality, FWIW. Also, you can always have the USB input added later, if you want to, by sending it in to Schiit.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Soon we'll be saying things like, "Fulla Schiit" and it'll be Jason's fault.


 
  
 I blame myself for my bad joke, which apparently you missed... old man


----------



## latimerfripp

Anyone uses the Schiit Bifrost(with Uber and USB) with IFI iUSB and their Geminni dual USB cable?
  
 I can get them both for a great discount price.. The Uberfrost will get any benefits with them in your opinion? thanks


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Does schiit have any class B amps?


----------



## RickB

blackenedplague said:


> Does schiit have any class B amps?


 
  
 In the FAQ on the Schiit site Magni is described as having a Class AB output stage.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> I blame myself for my bad joke, which apparently you missed... old man


 
 Old!? I'm still 16.


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> Does schiit have any class B amps?


 
 I hope not, crossover distortion is not a nice thing. That's why Class AB was invented.


----------



## jchandler3

Mani is available for purchase. 
  
 http://schiit.com/products/mani-phono-stage


----------



## XERO1

jeremy205100 said:


> I have to say, I'm pretty disappointed with the design of the Fulla. While it's beautiful, and the price is right, the design isn't practical. It should have the USB built in, like the Dragonfly. That's the only real way to do a dongle. I don't want another cable hanging out of my laptop, it's just a mess. Especially when I'm on the go. It also appears to be much bigger than the Dragonfly, which is another no no. While I think it's great Schiit was able to deliver a product that I am sure will put AudioQuest in deep Schiit (not a fan of AudioQuest), they should've made it more compact. The reason the Dragonfly is popular isn't because of its sound, it's because it's practical and compact.
> 
> I will be curious to see how Schiit does with this. Anyone know whether it'll go under the Amps or Dacs section of the site?


 

 The Fulla is a dongle-type DAC/amp just like the Firefly. Jude says so in the video. He also mentions that it will use the AKM AK4396 DAC and have 300mW output into 32 Ohms.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

billheiser said:


> S
> sure it makes sense. So I presume you're buying used, then, since if new you would be assured it's gen 2. If you have a reputable seller, ask them what version it is.
> I think there is a holographic sticker on the back of units which have Uber installed.


 

 Bill is correct, I just upgraded, well Mattcg did, my Bifrost to uber status, it does come with a tiny sticker, so the seller should know what you are talking about when you ask if the uber board sticker is affixed to the unit.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> I've scoured the InterWebs, the local, regional and state libraries, various community colleges and universities, and finally the Library of Congress in D.C., and I have found no reference to "Fulla" as relates to Norse mythology.  I'm *deeply* disappointed.  This makes me think the creators are fulla schiit.  Oh, wait...
> 
> 
> DAMN!  I forgot Wikipedia!   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulla


 

 Thurston, come on Man, I thought you knew your Norse mythology, here it tis;
  
 Fulla: During a bout of unusually heavy drinking the God Odin, who had disguised himself as a tall, dark, one-eyed Warrior, placed his patch over the wrong eye and was deceived by Ratatoskr, the Messenger Squirrel. This unfortunate crime against nature resulted in the birth of a person child Fulla, half messenger squirrel, half God.


----------



## jeremy205100

xero1 said:


> The Fulla is a dongle-type DAC/amp just like the Firefly. Jude says so in the video. He also mentions that it will use the AKM AK4396 DAC and have 300mW output into 32 Ohms.


 

 If you look in one of the pictures it shows a mini USB cable going from a computer into the Fulla. This means it is not a dongle in the same sense that the Dragonfly is.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> I hope not, crossover distortion is not a nice thing. That's why Class AB was invented.


 
  
 crossover distortion is minute with well-designed class B amps, and for powering headphones it would be not only inaudible but near undetectable by even computers.
  
 AB is even worse than A or B in that aspect


----------



## madwolfa

blackenedplague said:


> crossover distortion is minute with well-designed class B amps, and for powering headphones it would be not only inaudible but near undetectable by even computers.
> 
> AB is even worse than A or B in that aspect


 
  
 How could that be if one of the main purposes of the AB design is to defeat exactly that?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

madwolfa said:


> How could that be if one of the main purposes of the AB design is to defeat exactly that?


 
  
 Because it was poorly executed


----------



## madwolfa

blackenedplague said:


> Because it was poorly executed


 
  
 And that's why 99% of the amps known to planet are AB?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

madwolfa said:


> And that's why 99% of the amps known to planet are AB?


 
  
 now where did you get that number?


----------



## madwolfa

blackenedplague said:


> now where did you get that number?


 
  
 Out of my rear, but the point remains - it's by far the most popular (default/standard) Hi-Fi amplifier class.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I hope not, crossover distortion is not a nice thing. That's why Class AB was invented.


 
  
  


blackenedplague said:


> crossover distortion is minute with well-designed class B amps, and for powering headphones it would be not only inaudible but near undetectable by even computers.
> 
> AB is even worse than A or B in that aspect


 
 AB worse, huh? AB is intended to minimize or eliminate crossover distortion which is inherent in a B design. The only way to minimize this in a B design is to take it into the realm of AB which biases each side as not to switch off.
 This distortion is very apparent, especially using headphones at lower power levels than speakers. At lower power levels crossover distortion becomes more apparent since it's relative level is closer to your listening level.
 AB is worse than B if it is designed by an inept person. Class A has no crossover distortion so I don't understand the relevance of the last statement. Do you understand how a B design works and why crossover distortion occurrs in this design? The approach of saving power/heat in the B design is what causes this. AB tweaks the B design to prevent this.


----------



## XERO1

jeremy205100 said:


> If you look in one of the pictures it shows a mini USB cable going from a computer into the Fulla. This means it is not a dongle in the same sense that the Dragonfly is.


 
  
 I see what you're saying.  You want a DAC/amp that plugs directly into the computer without the need for a USB cable.
  
 I think Schiit has designed the Fulla to mainly be a compact desktop DAC/amp which is also small enough that it can double as a portable if needed.


----------



## jchandler3

xero1 said:


> I think Schiit has designed the Fulla to mainly be a compact desktop DAC/amp which is also small enough that it can double as a portable if needed.


 
  
 I can also imagine product development issues. I'm sure AudioQuest runs into this with the Dragonfly. Not every computer has a clean, accessible, flush-mount USB port. Some manufacturers put ports too close together, the power port in the way, USB ports on the back, etc. And I'm sure many will want to use the Fulla on a desktop computer, which may only have an available port on the back of the tower/monitor. Requiring a (short) cable avoids all of these issues. Smart on Schiit's part, IMHO.
  
 But FWIW, I can see why the original poster would want a cable-less product. It's probably just not as practical for most people.


----------



## Synergist969

Regarding that dangling dongle, perhaps Schiit Audio reasoned that in order for the Fulla to meet their high-standards design criteria, the size/weight minimum exceeded what they thought a USB plug/port should experience mechanically, so that a flexible "umbilical" cord was a better engineering choice...


----------



## Billheiser

jchandler3 said:


> I can also imagine product development issues. I'm sure AudioQuest runs into this with the Dragonfly. Not every computer has a clean, accessible, flush-mount USB port. Some manufacturers put ports too close together, the power port in the way, USB ports on the back, etc. And I'm sure many will want to use the Fulla on a desktop computer, which may only have an available port on the back of the tower/monitor. Requiring a (short) cable avoids all of these issues. Smart on Schiit's part, IMHO.
> 
> But FWIW, I can see why the original poster would want a cable-less product. It's probably just not as practical for most people.



Agree. I have the Dragonfly, and bought a 6" USB cable for it since that gives me flexibility, both literally and figuratively.


----------



## money4me247

xero1 said:


> I see what you're saying.  You want a DAC/amp that plugs directly into the computer without the need for a USB cable.
> 
> I think Schiit has designed the Fulla to mainly be a compact desktop DAC/amp which is also small enough that it can double as a portable if needed.




I think have a usb cord is a better design choice bc it gives u more space for components as flush mounted usb dacs r limited in size to fit as many computer usb jacks r close together. this design also puts less stress on ur usb port and allows for easier mobile usage as u can just get the right adapter cable.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

The first Fulla prototype plugged directly into the USB port of a computer. The first time I used it, I snapped off the connector with the computer on my lap. From then on, cables.


----------



## smitty1110

jason stoddard said:


> The first Fulla prototype plugged directly into the USB port of a computer. The first time I used it, I snapped off the connector with the computer on my lap. From then on, cables.



 

This is how 99% of all flash drives die, either through acute trauma like you experienced, or through the slow accumulation of damage. I applaud the choice of using a cable, it's much easier to replace.


----------



## StanD

jason stoddard said:


> The first Fulla prototype plugged directly into the USB port of a computer. The first time I used it, I snapped off the connector with the computer on my lap. From then on, cables.


 
 No thumb drives for you.


----------



## ThurstonX

smitty1110 said:


> jason stoddard said:
> 
> 
> > The first Fulla prototype plugged directly into the USB port of a computer. The first time I used it, I snapped off the connector with the computer on my lap. From then on, cables.
> ...


 
  
 Exactly.  Can't stand that direct plug in design.  That was one reason I never considered the Dragonfly.  At least the HiFimeDIY Sabre U2 (and USB isolator) has dongle cable built in, and still works fine with an extension cable.
  
 I hope someone will put the Fulla up against the C5D from JDS Labs.  There's a fairly significant price difference, and a different DAC chip, IIRC, so a direct comparison could prove interesting.


----------



## StanD

You could always buy one of these for a Fulla if it was to be a one piece.
  

  
http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragontail


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> You could always buy one of these for a Fulla if it was to be a one piece.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragontail


 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonTail-USB-2-0-Extender/dp/B00AHFWAQU
  
 or save a few bucks and get an Amazon Basics extender (longer) or Monoprice.  Still, from AudioQuest, that's not an unreasonable price.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-DragonTail-USB-2-0-Extender/dp/B00AHFWAQU
> 
> or save a few bucks and get an Amazon Basics extender (longer) or Monoprice.  Still, from AudioQuest, that's not an unreasonable price.


 
 How about putting a flexable rubber boot at the end of the Fulla at the USB connector so Rangy doesn't have to spend extra dosh on an extender cable?


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> How about putting a flexable rubber boot at the end of the Fulla at the USB connector so Rangy doesn't have to spend extra dosh on an extender cable?


 
  
 But you have to add a $200 mono-crystal, pure copper, silver plated cable to improve the sound!


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> But you have to add a $200 mono-crystal, pure copper, silver plated cable to improve the sound!


 
 And a Gigawatt Flux Capacitor to power the internal USB Hub and Time Correlation device that compensates for jitter.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> How about putting a flexable rubber boot at the end of the Fulla at the USB connector so Rangy doesn't have to spend extra dosh on an extender cable?


 
  
 You mean a short, attached cable, like this?
 http://hifimediy.com/U2-DAC
  
 I prefer the current design, as it lets people use whatever overpriced USB cable they desire, not to mention length.  With the Sabre U2, I like at least a 3-foot extension cable, as it leaves the laptop on the table or wherever, and the DAC and amp with me on the couch, in the chair, foraging in the treetops, etc.
  
 Rangy ain't likely to get a Fulla, unless he swings through a money tree, but at that price ya never know.  I'm mostly married to my Stack o' Schiit, and my portable setup is for those rare occasions a laptop is being used for audio.  I'll say the Fulla is more tempting than the C5D, due to the aforementioned differences.  And at that size, I reckon it's *the perfect stocking stuffer*.
  
 @ Schiit folks, I require no compensation for that future marketing ploy


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> You mean a short, attached cable, like this?
> http://hifimediy.com/U2-DAC
> 
> I prefer the current design, as it lets people use whatever overpriced USB cable they desire, not to mention length.  With the Sabre U2, I like at least a 3-foot extension cable, as it leaves the laptop on the table or wherever, and the DAC and amp with me on the couch, in the chair, foraging in the treetops, etc.
> ...


 
 Funny thing that recently I was looking at the Dragonfly 1.2 at Bestbuy thinking too bad Schiit doesn't make something like that. Guess I didn't know Jack Schiit. In any case, I have enough DACs for now.


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> And a Gigawatt Flux Capacitor to power the internal USB Hub and Time Correlation device that compensates for jitter.


 
  
 Don't have the capacitor but have the below for latter - still a bit wibbly, wobbly ....


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> And a Gigawatt Flux Capacitor to power the internal USB Hub and Time Correlation device that compensates for jitter.


 
  
  


beatswork said:


> Don't have the capacitor but have the below for latter - still a bit wibbly, wobbly ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The headphones on Gallifrey are bigger inside the earcups than on the outside.


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> The headphones on Gallifrey are bigger inside the earcups than on the outside.


 
  
 OMG - I think I've found my long lost twin!


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> OMG - I think I've found my long lost twin!


 
 Yes, but we must be careful not to be at the same place at the same time or all sorts of Schiit might happen.
 I see HE-500's in you Avatar. You have a pair?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Remember to tape the usb extension on if you need it (electrical tape obv). Extension cables for usb don't hold very tight at all


----------



## paulcs

stand said:


> The headphones on Gallifrey are bigger inside the earcups than on the outside.


 
 Sort of like my AKG K701's, although I suspect the headband is Dalek technology.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> AB worse, huh? AB is intended to minimize or eliminate crossover distortion which is inherent in a B design. The only way to minimize this in a B design is to take it into the realm of AB which biases each side as not to switch off.
> This distortion is very apparent, especially using headphones at lower power levels than speakers. At lower power levels crossover distortion becomes more apparent since it's relative level is closer to your listening level.
> AB is worse than B if it is designed by an inept person. Class A has no crossover distortion so I don't understand the relevance of the last statement. Do you understand how a B design works and why crossover distortion occurrs in this design? The approach of saving power/heat in the B design is what causes this. AB tweaks the B design to prevent this.


 
  
 I think I'm gonna just put this book in the recycling bin


----------



## jeremy205100

jason stoddard said:


> The first Fulla prototype plugged directly into the USB port of a computer. The first time I used it, I snapped off the connector with the computer on my lap. From then on, cables.


 

 While I can understand this, I am a little surprised. AudioQuest's overpriced, plastic DAC doesn't have this issue, or else we'd have heard about it. The Fulla looks a bit bigger, but I think the built in USB is still the best option due to the fact that those with cramped ports can still use an extension cable. With the current cable arrangement, I have no option of plugging it in directly. I'm not planning on buying one (the next Schiit I get will be a DAC upgrade to Bifrost), but the target customer likely wants the simplest product possible, and the built in USB would make it easier to use. That being said, snapped off connectors would not make for repeat customers...


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> I think I'm gonna just put this book in the recycling bin


 
 But it was a classic, grade A book.


----------



## ninjames

Did anybody ever find a solid RCA cable option for the Magni/Modi combo that didn't lift the units with use and wasn't stupidly expensive? I owned the Magni/Modi combo and was forced to sell it a few months ago and am looking to buy again, but I had to deal with the lifting issue with a 1.5-foot Blue Jeans Cable interconnect and was hoping to avoid that this time around.


----------



## madwolfa

ninjames said:


> Did anybody ever find a solid RCA cable option for the Magni/Modi combo that didn't lift the units with use and wasn't stupidly expensive? I owned the Magni/Modi combo and was forced to sell it a few months ago and am looking to buy again, but I had to deal with the lifting issue with a 1.5-foot Blue Jeans Cable interconnect and was hoping to avoid that this time around.


 
  
 How about Schiit's own PYST cables?


----------



## ninjames

madwolfa said:


> How about Schiit's own PYST cables?


 
 The PYST cables also lift ... though the Magni thread just informed that sometime over the past year or so they changed to a thinner, more flexible cable and it does not lift. So I'll see about that.


----------



## CH23

ninjames said:


> The PYST cables also lift ... though the Magni thread just informed that sometime over the past year or so they changed to a thinner, more flexible cable and it does not lift. So I'll see about that.




I've seen someone online use a rubber band to keep that from happening.

I googled it. It's this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard


----------



## ninjames

Yeah I used a velcro tie with mine before, but I moved it around quite a bit and am paranoid about dust and it got to be a hassle adjusting that thing. Whatever the case, I emailed Schiit and they confirmed that they have updated the PYST and that there is no lift. So wooh!
  
 Thanks guys.


----------



## jchandler3

ninjames said:


> Yeah I used a velcro tie with mine before, but I moved it around quite a bit and am paranoid about dust and it got to be a hassle adjusting that thing. Whatever the case, I emailed Schiit and they confirmed that they have updated the PYST and that there is no lift. So wooh!
> 
> Thanks guys.


 

 Yeah, I have that exact setup at work and it's solid / no lift.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

http://www.metal-fi.com/schiit-vinyl/
  
 I'm even more pumped


----------



## rmullins08

Mani shipped the other day for me.  Going to be delivered to the office on Tuesday as I will be out of town.  Haven't even looked to see what time my flight gets back, but will probably swing by the office to pick up Wednesday night when I return for some run time.


----------



## jexby

at RMAF Friday-
  
 Listened to the Yggy/Rag with my HE-560 today (4pin balanced) and um, wow that was amazing, lively and engrossing!
 that combo was as close to "being in the room/concert" as I've heard from headphones, period.
 those big boys don't merely deliver sound stage - it delivered sound-space (3D).
 gems.
 no way I'll ever afford or have room for those monster boxes but still cool to hear what is possible by audio wizards.
  
 went from biggest to small, and listened to the Fulla.
 damn it is tiny, but cranks out some severe mW.  300mW into 32 ohms.
 DAC chip is similar/same to the modi, can't recall the amp chip details.
  
 and wow it's overpowered for (my) IEMs!
 could barely rotate the dial past a couple steps before UM3X were going to burst out of my ears.
 mentioned this to Jason, who thought the gain could be adjusted still before final revisions.
 most Joe Public see these small USB DAC/Amps and assume they are (perfect) for IEMs- but ya gotta be careful with Fulla I think.
  
  
 Thanks Jason and Schiit team for once again having a full range demo from tiny to huge at RMAF!


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> at RMAF Friday-
> 
> Listened to the Yggy/Rag with my HE-560 today and um, wow that was amazing, lively and engrossing!
> that combo was as close to "being in the room/concert" as I've heard from headphones, period.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the impressions.  Were you listening to balanced out or SE?


----------



## jexby

thurstonx said:


> Thanks for the impressions.  Were you listening to balanced out or SE?


 
  
 yah, balanced all the way into HE-560.  sorry neglected to mention that in original post... will edit.
  
 those big bad boys are indeed glorious- could have sat there for 30+minutes.
 other folks queueing up would not have been happy.


----------



## smitty1110

jexby said:


> yah, balanced all the way into HE-560.  sorry neglected to mention that in original post... will edit.
> 
> those big bad boys are indeed glorious- could have sat there for 30+minutes.
> other folks queueing up would not have been happy.


 
 I'm pricing out balanced recabling/reterminations on a lot of my headphones because of how much people have been raving about it. Anyone at RMAF done an a/b with the same cans out of the two outputs?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

rmullins08 said:


> Mani shipped the other day for me.  Going to be delivered to the office on Tuesday as I will be out of town.  Haven't even looked to see what time my flight gets back, but will probably swing by the office to pick up Wednesday night when I return for some run time.


 
  
 Had no idea they were available yet........ and the specs are even better than the V90-LPS (which was going to be my other choice)
  
 next pay day some schiit is going to go down
  
 EDIT: upon further research this phono stage beats others upwards of $500


----------



## Flisker

Hey guys,
  
 I recieved my second hand "new Schiit" few days ago, everything sounds awesome except one issue. There is some sort of light clicking/crackling in some recordings, multiple headphones reproduce this issue I suspect it might be something about DAC (usb gen 1 conected) or my foobar/pc settings. 
  
_Any ideas on what could be cause of this would be great. _
  
_Should get optical cable by tomorrow to try if that might help._
  
*Windows Settings*
  

  
*Foobar Settings*
  

  
*New Schiit *


----------



## Defiant00

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recieved my second hand "new Schiit" few days ago, everything sounds awesome except one issue. There is some sort of light clicking/crackling in some recordings, multiple headphones reproduce this issue I suspect it might be something about DAC (usb gen 1 conected) or my foobar/pc settings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would recommend trying "default" software settings first, something like Windows set to 24/44.1 and Foobar output device set to *Primary Output Device*. If that works then switch one thing back at a time and see which causes the issue, personally I'd be most suspect of using WASAPI (out of the things you have listed, not that I'd expect any of them to necessarily cause this).


----------



## Zojokkeli

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recieved my second hand "new Schiit" few days ago, everything sounds awesome except one issue. There is some sort of light clicking/crackling in some recordings, multiple headphones reproduce this issue I suspect it might be something about DAC (usb gen 1 conected) or my foobar/pc settings.
> 
> _Any ideas on what could be cause of this would be great. _


 
  
 Have you tried using "ASIO for C-Media USB Device" in foobar output settings?


----------



## ThurstonX

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recieved my second hand "new Schiit" few days ago, everything sounds awesome except one issue. There is some sort of light clicking/crackling in some recordings, multiple headphones reproduce this issue I suspect it might be something about DAC (usb gen 1 conected) or my foobar/pc settings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I doubt it's WASAPI.  I use Event Mode with my Gen 2 USB Bifrost and have no problems.  I assume you're using the same driver (1.03, downloaded from Schiit).  The Speaker Properties page you show is for Shared Mode.  IIRC, when running in WASAPI Event Mode, those settings are ignored.  An easy test is to make the Schiit USB device the default device, then try to play some other sounds through it (a YouTube video or whatever) *after* you've started playback in foobar.  If I'm right, you won't hear the sound from the YouTube video, as foobar has "exclusive" control of the device.
  
 I read about increasing the WASAPI Thread Priority in foobar.  Here's where you can find it:
  

  
  
 You could also try increasing the buffer setting under Output.  Don't go too high.  I use 1500 ms (default is 1000)
  
 FWIW, the Schiit USB is not my default device, as I like to use foobar while watching TV via Windows Media Center, so it's not necessary to leave it as that, if you've some reason to use a different device as the default.
  
 HTH.


----------



## Flisker

Thank you all for tips guys.
  
 I changed USB cable and after 3 hours of listening I can't seem to hear anything wrong now.
  
 Is it even possible there was something wrong with the cable ? (Got 3 cables from work and used the thickest one as I assumed it should be best one)
  
 Oh, also used different USB port, that might helped also.
  
 Added thread priority for WASAPI now, to make sure I have everything set up right. Thanks Thurston.


----------



## Defiant00

flisker said:


> Thank you all for tips guys.
> 
> I changed USB cable and after 3 hours of listening I can't seem to hear anything wrong now.
> 
> ...




Sure, the cable could definitely be the problem. Yeah it's a digital signal, but that's still being carried as voltage changes on a wire, so it could be picking up interference.


----------



## Flisker

defiant00 said:


> Sure, the cable could definitely be the problem. Yeah it's a digital signal, but that's still being carried as voltage changes on a wire, so it could be picking up interference.


 
  
 I was also thinking if the way I manage cables is ok or not. I believe those power cables to Bifrost and Lyr can be bound together without causing issue right ? But is it possible that it's not ok to have USB cable near them because of interference ?


----------



## Rem0o

Your problem was most likely the USB port you were using or the USB setting in Windows.


----------



## BeatsWork

flisker said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I recieved my second hand "new Schiit" few days ago, everything sounds awesome except one issue. There is some sort of light clicking/crackling in some recordings, multiple headphones reproduce this issue I suspect it might be something about DAC (usb gen 1 conected) or my foobar/pc settings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check your drivers! Just setup new laptop with Windows 8 and Foobar and Jriver both had issue with crackling, popping and distortion when playing FLAC.  Downloaded the specific USB, chipset etc. drivers for my laptop from Lenovo website and presto problem solved.


----------



## rmullins08

blackenedplague said:


> Had no idea they were available yet........ and the specs are even better than the V90-LPS (which was going to be my other choice)
> 
> next pay day some schiit is going to go down
> 
> EDIT: upon further research this phono stage beats others upwards of $500


 
  
 I'm excited for it.  I've just been using an ART DJ Pre II while waiting for the Mani to come out.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

rmullins08 said:


> I'm excited for it.  I've just been using an ART DJ Pre II while waiting for the Mani to come out.


 
  
 make no mistake, that is a very formidable preamp for the price


----------



## Eee Pee

blackenedplague said:


> EDIT: upon further research this phono stage beats others upwards of $500


 
  
 How so, or how do you know?
  
 I have one coming and will be trying it out against a Soundsmith MMP3.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

eee pee said:


> How so, or how do you know?
> 
> I have one coming and will be trying it out against a Soundsmith MMP3.


 
  
 I go by specs, as "just listening" is much more subjective than raw data. That being said, the specifications are much more vague than they should be. I won't back down from what I said, but I guess maybe higher priced stages could give you that fuzzy feeling inside


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

> Well, isn’t that just a passing fad?
> We don’t think so. Vinyl, played back on an accurate and resolving system, is an amazing-sounding medium. Many audiophiles still prefer the sound of vinyl to digital. We don’t think that will change soon. But even if it does, with Mani, you’re not out big bucks.


 
  
 After listening to many records, I can tell you that placebo, loudness wars, and surface noise be damned, vinyl sounds better. But it once again comes down to how and how well it was produced/mastered, if they pulled a death magnetic then it won't sound good no matter what medium you use


----------



## Amalz

http://www.head-fi.org/t/738742/valhalla-2-proplems-blew-beyer-dt-990-6000hm-i-need-help


----------



## CH23

blackenedplague said:


> After listening to many records, I can tell you that placebo, loudness wars, and surface noise be damned, vinyl sounds better. But it once again comes down to how and how well it was produced/mastered, if they pulled a death magnetic then it won't sound good no matter what medium you use




I'd say that it feels better to caress a record, carefully put the needle on it, and have a huge ass cover to look at/read lyrics from. And that's part of why it 'sounds' better.

Even on my portable turntable i enjoy it more than i do with my audio player, or cd player.


----------



## ThurstonX

ch23 said:


> I'd say that it feels better to caress a record, carefully put the needle on it, and have a huge ass cover to look at/read lyrics from. And that's part of why it 'sounds' better.
> 
> Even on my portable turntable i enjoy it more than i do with my audio player, or cd player.


 
  
 Y'all are making me want to reconfigure The Laboratory to accommodate my turntable.  I have lots of vinyl, but most of my listening is now done upstairs, so it gets very little action (mostly just if I get off my ass to digitize something).  I don't have an amp upstairs, but I do have an ART CleanBox Pro.  Got it to feed a balanced signal into my M-Audio sound card for digitizing.
  
 http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/audio_solutions/product/cleanbox_pro/
  
 I'm wondering if between that and the Lyr I could avoid having to get an amp.  Still waking up, and can't quite picture the chain in my head.  Or could I go
 TT > CBP > Sound Card (ADC) > Coax out to Bifrost > Lyr
 Is that too convoluted?  Since I'll be using cans in the end, the signal has to end up at the Lyr.  Is this an excuse to buy some new Schiit? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Coffee time.


----------



## jexby

ch23 said:


> I'd say that it feels better to caress a record, carefully put the needle on it, and have a huge ass cover to look at/read lyrics from. And that's part of why it 'sounds' better.
> 
> Even on my portable turntable i enjoy it more than i do with my audio player, or cd player.




In the 80s I enjoyed buying CDs that didn't scratch easily, warp or take up space in boxes. Find the corresponding LP in basement, snap it in half and throw away the cover.

Death to vinyl has always been my mantra.
Yes- if CDs were mastered better we'd all be happier but the big slab of plastic format itself is just a plain waste in modern times.


----------



## StanD

ch23 said:


> I'd say that it feels better to caress a record, carefully put the needle on it, and have a huge ass cover to look at/read lyrics from. And that's part of why it 'sounds' better.
> 
> Even on my portable turntable i enjoy it more than i do with my audio player, or cd player.


 
 So bigger is better?


----------



## CH23

stand said:


> So bigger is better?




To me, personally, no.

I prefer blu-ray/DVD over VHS/Laserdisc.

Actually i prefer digital files. I usually buy a DVD and then get the content online.

But not so with music. I have no scietific explanation...


----------



## StanD

ch23 said:


> To me, personally, no.
> 
> I prefer blu-ray/DVD over VHS/Laserdisc.
> 
> ...


 
 So it's non auditory emotional appeal. I'd stay away from 8 Track tape cartridges before that takes over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wonder if one can even find those anymore.


----------



## CH23

stand said:


> So it's non auditory emotional appeal. I'd stay away from 8 Track tape cartridges before that takes over.   I wonder if one can even find those anymore.




The digital sound quality is undoubtedly equal if not better, unless you spend several thousands on vinyl playback devices.

It just gives me more enjoyment.



jexby said:


> In the 80s I enjoyed buying CDs that didn't scratch easily, warp or take up space in boxes. Find the corresponding LP in basement, snap it in half and throw away the cover.
> 
> Death to vinyl has always been my mantra.
> Yes- if CDs were mastered better we'd all be happier but the big slab of plastic format itself is just a plain waste in modern times.




You've made a grown man cry, i hope you're happy now. 

Doesn't this look better than a stack of CD's to you?

(Please excuse the lack of any Schiit in this post, and in that picture)


----------



## StanD

ch23 said:


> The digital sound quality is undoubtedly equal if not better, unless you spend several thousands on vinyl playback devices.
> 
> It just gives me more enjoyment.
> You've made a grown man cry, i hope you're happy now.
> ...


 
 Even if you break the bank on vinyl playback, I wonder how the limited SNR and dynamic range will play in, other than the emotional appeal. There was a time when vinyl was the only qulaity game in town, but time marches on.


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> Even if you break the bank on vinyl playback, I wonder how the limited SNR and dynamic range will play in, other than the emotional appeal. There was a time when vinyl was the only qulaity game in town, but time marches on.


 
 For me it's an "AND" thing, not "OR".  I treasure my great music on LP's, CD's, computer files, etc.  I never understood why anyone would throw away or re-purchase recordings just because the formats change.  Formats will always change and I don't want to miss new music by downloading stuff I already own.
  
 On good recordings my vinyl sound and my digital sound are right there in the same quality ballpark.  Not so my cassettes, but I still have them and play them because I love the music they contain.
  
 I am also agnostic about some people liking the "ritual" of playing a record.  I don't, I like the convenience of pushing "play" on a cd or whatever.  But I sure love the music on the LP's.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> So it's non auditory emotional appeal. I'd stay away from 8 Track tape cartridges before that takes over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 We ran "carts" at our college radio station.  I'm guessing they were 8 Tracks (size matched, IIRC).  But that was just for PSAs and various musicians we got to do the station's call sign.  OK, that's approaching 30 years ago now.  I bet if you wander around some shops in NY, you could pick up not only some carts, but a player, too.  Yes, I mean you specifically.  And don't think you're going to borrow Rangy to help you test in the Phantom Zone


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> For me it's an "AND" thing, not "OR".  I treasure my great music on LP's, CD's, computer files, etc.  I never understood why anyone would throw away or re-purchase recordings just because the formats change.  Formats will always change and I don't want to miss new music by downloading stuff I already own.
> 
> On good recordings my vinyl sound and my digital sound are right there in the same quality ballpark.  Not so my cassettes, but I still have them and play them because I love the music they contain.
> 
> I am also agnostic about some people liking the "ritual" of playing a record.  I don't, I like the convenience of pushing "play" on a cd or whatever.  But I sure love the music on the LP's.


 
 OK, so how about some 8 Tracks? Got that nostalgic appeal and the potential for a nice tangle.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> We ran "carts" at our college radio station.  I'm guessing they were 8 Tracks (size matched, IIRC).  But that was just for PSAs and various musicians we got to do the station's call sign.  OK, that's approaching 30 years ago now.  I bet if you wander around some shops in NY, you could pick up not only some carts, but a player, too.  Yes, I mean you specifically.  And don't think you're going to borrow Rangy to help you test in the Phantom Zone


 
 We know that Rangy ran away from home, so stop trying to cover it up.


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> OK, so how about some 8 Tracks? Got that nostalgic appeal and the potential for a nice tangle.


 
 I do have good memories of teenage years in a friend's VW Bug w/ 8 track.  But the unavoidable, built-in gaps between the 4 "sides" was a ridiculous fault and 8 track richly deserved to die.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> I do have good memories of teenage years in a friend's VW Bug w/ 8 track.  But the unavoidable, built-in gaps between the 4 "sides" was a ridiculous fault and 8 track richly deserved to die.


 
 I guess we won't be looking forward to a Schiit 8 Track player. Thurston will be dissapointed.


----------



## KLJTech

I disliked the clunky 8 Track Tape format, but I've gotta say that I've heard very good Reel to reel playback though I don't own one. I recall when they first came out with CD players for your car that my best friend ran right out and bought a $600 Alpine CD player and I ended up paying the same price for a Nakamichi cassette player for my car (it even had an Azimuth control). That thing made me want a Nakamichi Dragon real bad, but I never ended up pulling the trigger on the deal.
  
 Now I wish I'd held onto my 1990's Monarchy Audio 22A DAC with its dual 20-bit Burr Brown PCM63P-K DAC to compare it to my Gungnir. 
 God I feel old.


----------



## StanD

kljtech said:


> I disliked the clunky 8 Track Tape format, but I've gotta say that I've heard very good Reel to reel playback though I don't own one. I recall when they first came out with CD players for your car that my best friend ran right out and bought a $600 Alpine CD player and I ended up paying the same price for a Nakamichi cassette player for my car (it even had an Azimuth control). That thing made me want a Nakamichi Dragon real bad, but I never ended up pulling the trigger on the deal.
> 
> Now I wish I'd held onto my 1990's Monarchy Audio 22A DAC with its dual 20-bit Burr Brown PCM63P-K DAC to compare it to my Gungnir.
> God I feel old.


 
 Old? Next you'll lament over your 78's.


----------



## reddog

kljtech said:


> I disliked the clunky 8 Track Tape format, but I've gotta say that I've heard very good Reel to reel playback though I don't own one. I recall when they first came out with CD players for your car that my best friend ran right out and bought a $600 Alpine CD player and I ended up paying the same price for a Nakamichi cassette player for my car (it even had an Azimuth control). That thing made me want a Nakamichi Dragon real bad, but I never ended up pulling the trigger on the deal.
> 
> Now I wish I'd held onto my 1990's Monarchy Audio 22A DAC with its dual 20-bit Burr Brown PCM63P-K DAC to compare it to my Gungnir.
> 
> God I feel old.



The reel to reel format sounds great. I knew a big band.leader who had the most amazing reels of Buddy Rich playing solo. But that type of format is slowly going the way of the dodo bird.


----------



## ThurstonX

Stoopid noob hook-up question: if I want to run my turntable into the Lyr, do I need anything more than the Mani?  I need to move it from its current unstable floor joists, dust-gathering location.  I've no intention of using speakers in the foreseeable future, just Lyr and cans.  Currently it's plugged into the Phono In on an old Kenwood AVR, but the latter is stuck doing HTPC duties.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Stoopid noob hook-up question: if I want to run my turntable into the Lyr, do I need anything more than the Mani?  I need to move it from its current unstable floor joists, dust-gathering location.  I've no intention of using speakers in the foreseeable future, just Lyr and cans.  Currently it's plugged into the Phono In on an old Kenwood AVR, but the latter is stuck doing HTPC duties.


 
 Other than overpriced cables, you might want an audio switch so you can pick from either the Mani or your Bifrost. Or you can convince Rangy to come home and switch cables for you.


----------



## Eee Pee

Turntable > Mani > Lyr > headphones
  
 Simple as that.


----------



## KLJTech

stand said:


> Old? Next you'll lament over your 78's.


 
  
 Sorry.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Old? Next you'll lament over your 78's.


 
  
  


kljtech said:


> Sorry.


 
 Oh Mani, you threw them out?


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Other than overpriced cables, you might want an audio switch so you can pick from either the Mani or your Bifrost. Or you can convince Rangy to come home and switch cables for you.


 
  
 Yeah, the SYS is already in my proposed setup.  I heard you're pimpin' Rangy out pretty hard.  Is that how you roll in the Phantom Zone?  Well, after time with you, he'll be begging to come home.  Oh wait, Rangy just reminded me that that's his doppelgänger, (W)rongy.  Nice try, slick


----------



## ThurstonX

eee pee said:


> Turntable > Mani > Lyr > headphones
> 
> Simple as that.


 
 Thanks Eee Pee 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Time to spend some $$$ on some new $chiit.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Yeah, the SYS is already in my proposed setup.  I heard you're pimpin' Rangy out pretty hard.  Is that how you roll in the Phantom Zone?  Well, after time with you, he'll be begging to come home.  Oh wait, Rangy just reminded me that that's his doppelgänger, (W)rongy.  Nice try, slick


 
 Sad news but you've got a clone.
 The SYS has only one attenuator so you won't be able to balance the level of the Bifrost vs. the Mani.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> Stoopid noob hook-up question: if I want to run my turntable into the Lyr, do I need anything more than the Mani?  I need to move it from its current unstable floor joists, dust-gathering location.  I've no intention of using speakers in the foreseeable future, just Lyr and cans.  Currently it's plugged into the Phono In on an old Kenwood AVR, but the latter is stuck doing HTPC duties.




Stan-D, is absolutely correct, except I worry about adding a switcher, I haven't found one that didn't affect the quality of the playback. With the desktop system it's not that hard to reattach cable as necessary. What are you using as a TT?


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Sad news but you've got  clone.
> The SYS has only one attenuator so you won't be able to balance the level of the Bifrost vs. the Mani.


 
  
 You're a clone clown.
  
 OK, but is that something I should care about?  My impression is that the SYS will just let me switch sources feeding the Lyr without having to mess around with cables.  Since the Lyr is doing the volume control, the SYS will stay max'd out.  But like I said, stoopid noob question, so I'm all ears.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> You're a clone clown.
> 
> OK, but is that something I should care about?  My impression is that the SYS will just let me switch sources feeding the Lyr without having to mess around with cables.  Since the Lyr is doing the volume control, the SYS will stay max'd out.  But like I said, stoopid noob question, so I'm all ears.


 
 The volume level of the Mani may not match when you switch to the Bifrost and visa versa so you may find yourself tweaking the Lyr's or SYS's volume control whenever you flip the switch. I'd probably keep the SYS at max, and tweak the Lyr. Or just find a cheaper audio switch and tweak the Lyr to taste.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> The volume level of the Mani may not match when you switch to the Bifrost and visa versa so you may find yourself tweaking the Lyr's or SYS's volume control whenever you flip the switch. I'd probably keep the SYS at max, and tweak the Lyr. Or just find a cheaper audio switch and tweak the Lyr to taste.


 
  
 But if the SYS is always max'd and the Lyr is controlling the volume, I don't see a problem.  I'm usually zeroing out the Lyr when I'm switching tracks manually.  According the SYS instructions, it should be max'd for my intended use.  I'll get the SYS for aesthetics, and FWIW I trust their engineering chops.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> But if the SYS is always max'd and the Lyr is controlling the volume, I don't see a problem.  I'm usually zeroing out the Lyr when I'm switching tracks manually.  According the SYS instructions, it should be max'd for my intended use.  I'll get the SYS for aesthetics, and FWIW I trust their engineering chops.


 
 Not much engineering just  a maxed attenuator, wiring, switches and jacks. The best part is the matching cabinet.


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> Stan-D, is absolutely correct, except I worry about adding a switcher, I haven't found one that didn't affect the quality of the playback. With the desktop system it's not that hard to reattach cable as necessary. What are you using as a TT?


 
  
 Well, for $50 I'll roll the dice on the SYS.  Passive is a good thing, yeah?
  
 I have an old JVC AL-FQ5 with an Audio-Technica 3003 Studio Reference Series cartridge.  A seriously budget rig, but it won't get a ton of use (hasn't for quite some time).  I'd consider upgrading the cartridge.  Just read a review on Amazon comparing the A-T to a $100 Grado.  Ford to Lexus was the gist of it.  Not really willing to spend more than that.  Something to research.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Not much engineering just  a maxed attenuator, wiring, switches and jacks. The best part is the matching cabinet.


 
  
 There ya go.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> There ya go.


 
 You could always buy a second Lyr2, hehehhehehehehhe,,,,,
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 we know you want the new model.


----------



## Rem0o

stand said:


> The volume level of the Mani may not match when you switch to the Bifrost and visa versa so you may find yourself tweaking the Lyr's or SYS's volume control whenever you flip the switch. I'd probably keep the SYS at max, and tweak the Lyr. Or just find a cheaper audio switch and tweak the Lyr to taste.


 
 Simple problem = simple solution.

 If Bifrost out is louder than Mani, simply use digital attenuation out of the computer to match level.

 And voilà!


----------



## Defiant00

rem0o said:


> Simple problem = simple solution.
> 
> 
> If Bifrost out is louder than Mani, simply use digital attenuation out of the computer to match level.
> ...




Or as he already mentioned, he'll probably turn it down before switching sources, so the levels don't need to match.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> You could always buy a second Lyr2, hehehhehehehehhe,,,,,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You funny man, man!  Ragnarok or bust!


----------



## Amalz

Hello Guys,
 Do recommend me LYR 2 with my HD800? or make a noise because the power of Lyr 2 it's so high
 My BUD is $500


----------



## zpliptzy

So I was referred here-I'm considering DACs, and I'm kinda torn between the Modi and Bifrost.  I listen mainly to EDM/Rock, and have Ultrasone Pro 900's that I just love, connected up to my O2 amp.   I also considered the ODAC, mainly because of it's easy integration into my O2.  Anyway, what are your recommendations?


----------



## Maxvla

amalz said:


> Hello Guys,
> Do recommend me [COLOR=FF0000]LYR 2[/COLOR] with my HD800? or make a noise because the power of Lyr 2 it's so high
> My BUD is $500



Vallhala 2 for HD800s for sure. Even with stock tubes it will do great. Lyr is a gateway drug. You'll never find 'that perfect tube' no matter how many multiples of the Lyr's price you stack up.


----------



## money4me247

maxvla said:


> Vallhala 2 for HD800s for sure. Even with stock tubes it will do great. Lyr is a gateway drug. You'll never find 'that perfect tube' no matter how many multiples of the Lyr's price you stack up.


 
 HAHAAH! too funny. you can always refrain from rolling tubes. just say NO!


----------



## ThurstonX

money4me247 said:


> HAHAAH! too funny. you can always refrain from rolling tubes. just say NO!


 
  
 No


----------



## StanD

rem0o said:


> Simple problem = simple solution.
> 
> If Bifrost out is louder than Mani, simply use digital attenuation out of the computer to match level.
> 
> And voilà!


 
 A lot of people do not like digital attenuation, for reasons of quantization.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I do get that records are pretty silly in the tech department, but there are recording that do not exist on cd. And until the hearing-impaired stop mixing/mastering recordings, vinyl will still be relevant (excluding the cases where H.I.'s pull a lazy-ass and shove the cd master on to wax)


----------



## Rem0o

stand said:


> A lot of people do not like digital attenuation, for reasons of quantization.


 
 Well,  I use it all the time, and never heard any sonic impact, as it should, so it's fine in my book


----------



## madwolfa

rem0o said:


> Well,  I use it all the time, and never heard any sonic impact, as it should, so it's fine in my book


 
  
 The reason for not using it is mostly OCD, I would think.


----------



## superjawes

zpliptzy said:


> So I was referred here-I'm considering DACs, and I'm kinda torn between the Modi and Bifrost.  I listen mainly to EDM/Rock, and have Ultrasone Pro 900's that I just love, connected up to my O2 amp.   I also considered the ODAC, mainly because of it's easy integration into my O2.  Anyway, what are your recommendations?


The big reason to buy a Bifrost over Modi is upgrade ability. With Modi, you have to choose optical versus USB, and if Schiit develops a better analog stage for Bifrost, you can buy that to get the latest goodness (same applies to Gungnir if you want something a little better an balanced), and if they improve Modi and release a Modi 2, you'll be doing upgrades the Apple way.

However...Modi is also WAY cheaper than Bifrost, and it may be the only DAC you ever need. If you want USB and optical, two Modis costs less than a vanilla Bifrost (which does not have USB).

In your case, if you're looking at an O2 and ODAC, Modi sounds like the better choice. ODAC is also an excellent option. Bifrost is probably going to be overkill for your O2, and would be better served by an overall upgraded system.


----------



## superjawes

To the vinyl discussion, I can appreciate the technology, but I was raised on convenience, and I love being able to listen to anything I discover immediately. Out with the CDs and in with the completely digital formats! (And Spotify is awesome.)


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> A lot of people do not like digital attenuation, for reasons of quantization.


 
  
  


rem0o said:


> Well,  I use it all the time, and never heard any sonic impact, as it should, so it's fine in my book


 
 When you digitally scale the range of the signal to a smaller range of numbers to lessen the volume you will have less steps of resolution for the complete dynamics of the music, hence quantization kicks becomes a factor, not a good thing. You are also, most likely, bringing the loudest attenuated signal closer to the noise floor.
 A poteniometer is analog, hence continuous, no steps, no quantization. This is why most people keep their digital volume cranked up all the way and control volume at the amp using a potentiometer or stepped attenuator (resistors).


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> When you digitally scale the range of the signal to a smaller range of numbers to lessen the volume you will have less steps of resolution for the complete dynamics of the music, hence quantization kicks becomes a factor, not a good thing. You are also, most likely, bringing the loudest attenuated signal closer to the noise floor.


 
  
 But with 24 bit output and Foobar2000's 64 bit internal DSP it's probably a moot.


----------



## Rudiger

superjawes said:


> *The big reason to buy a Bifrost over Modi is upgrade ability*. (...)
> 
> However...*Modi is also WAY cheaper than Bifrost*, and it may be the only DAC you ever need. If you want USB and optical, two Modis costs less than a vanilla Bifrost (which does not have USB).
> (...)


 
 You could even say that Modi is cheaper than the Bifrost uber or USB upgrade


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> But with 24 bit output and Foobar2000's 64 bit internal DSP it's probably a moot.


 
 Nope. If the numbers are scaled such that the loudest is represented by, lets say 8192, that is how many steps of resolution you will have, lower is as you can see even worse. While controlling the volume with an analog potentiometer there is no such quantization (steps of resolution), 
 Lets say that the noise level is 1 bit (for illustration) you will also be 8192 steps above the noise level as apposed to 24 bits above. In the case of a potentiometer you scale the noise of the source as well as the signal.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Nope. If the numbers are scaled such that the loudest is represented by, lets say 8192, that is how many steps of resolution you will have, lower is as you can see even worse. While controlling the volume with an analog potentiometer there is no such quantization (steps of resolution),
> Lets say that the noise level is 1 bit (for illustration) you will also be 8192 steps above the noise level as apposed to 24 bits above. In the case of a potentiometer you scale the noise of the source as well as the signal.


 
  


> The CD format offers 16 bit which means a dynamic range of 96 dB and distortions which cannot be lower than 0,0016%. A 24 bit signal offers a dynamic range of 144 dB with theoretical minimum distortions at 0,00001%. This is not possible to achieve in real life. The best today AD converters offer dynamic ranges from 120 dB with distortion figures about –110 dB THD. Lots of losses have to be faced during recording, editing, mixing … Digital attenuation is done by shifting the signal from MSB (Most-Significant-Bit) in direction LSB (Least-Significant-Bit). Shifting a complete bit in LSB direction (and replacing it with a 0) means 6 dB attenuation.
> 
> When a 16 bit CD signal is input to a 24 bit DA converter, this signal may be attenuated by 6 dB x 8 Bit = 48 dB = factor 200:1 WITHOUT changing anything from the original data. We learned from the above that also a real 24 bit signal carries a maximum of 20 “senseful” bits - in practice there are no more than 18 bits. So, also a 24 bit signal may be attenuated by a minimum of 6 dB x 4 Bit = 24 dB = factor 35:1 WITHOUT doing any harm to the original data. And– for our opinion - digital attenuation is the best what can happen to a signal (except not being attenuated). Of course provisions should be made to adapt different working levels in the audio chain.


 
  
 "About digital volume control..."
 http://www.lake-people.de/faqs.html


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> "About digital volume control..."
> http://www.lake-people.de/faqs.html


 
 Much of the begining blurb has little bearing on the issue. I haven't the time to do the math right now, but my gut instincts don't like putting a complex signal through a limited range of quantization.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> Much of the begining blurb has little bearing on the issue. I haven't the time to do the math right now, but my gut instincts don't like putting a complex signal through a limited range of quantization.


 
  
 What we like and don't like has nothing to do with objective reality, you know that better than anyone else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 PS: I don't _like_ it either, hence my digital volume controls are at 100% all the time. But I tend to think that's rather pleasing my OCD.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> What we like and don't like has nothing to do with objective reality, you know that better than anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Like I said, I don't have the time right now to hit up the objective calculator, grrrh now I'll be bothered --- must forget, must forget.. Apparently, we both suffer from the same OCD.


----------



## Rem0o

stand said:


> Like I said, I don't have the time right now to hit up the objective calculator, grrrh now I'll be bothered --- must forget, must forget.. Apparently, we both suffer from the same OCD.


 
 Such an handicap, life is soooooo good with digital volume control


----------



## StanD

rem0o said:


> Such an handicap, life is soooooo good with digital volume control


 
 Wiseguy.


----------



## CJs06

I got my Schiit SYS and Mani in today. So I had a house warming party and allowed both my digital and analog friends a chance to get to know one another. They'll be spending some quality time together on this table for as long as I see fit


----------



## ThurstonX

cjs06 said:


> I got my Schiit SYS and Mani in today. So I had a house warming party and allowed both my digital and analog friends a chance to get to know one another. They'll be spending some quality time together on this table for as long as I see fit


 
  
 Nice, and thanks for the pic, as we have the same Stacks o' Schiit.  Or will have once my Mani and SYS arrive on Friday.  I appreciate the look ahead so I can plan the placement.
  
 Party on


----------



## CJs06

thurstonx said:


> Nice, and thanks for the pic, as we have the same Stacks o' Schiit.  Or will have once my Mani and SYS arrive on Friday.  I appreciate the look ahead so I can plan the placement.
> 
> Party on


 
 Party on Garth


----------



## ThurstonX

cjs06 said:


> I got my Schiit SYS and Mani in today. So I had a house warming party and allowed both my digital and analog friends a chance to get to know one another. They'll be spending some quality time together on this table for as long as I see fit


 
  
 Assuming you've got the Mani and Bifrost going into the SYS, then out to the Lyr, did you notice a difference with the SYS in the chain?


----------



## CJs06

thurstonx said:


> Assuming you've got the Mani and Bifrost going into the SYS, then out to the Lyr, did you notice a difference with the SYS in the chain?


 
 None at all. I played around with the volume on the SYS and I decided to leave it at maximum. I use the volume on my LYR.


----------



## ThurstonX

cjs06 said:


> None at all. I played around with the volume on the SYS and I decided to leave it at maximum. I use the volume on my LYR.


 
  
 That's my plan, too, so thanks for confirming.  Party on, Wayne


----------



## FourPlay

I have a Vali but I have yet to use it. Problem is, I don't know how/where to connect the Vali to my system. Right now I have a McIntosh MA5100 for power and a Denon DNP-720AE network audio player for internet radio. Do I plug the Vali in my Mac, or does it plug into the Denon?
  
 I received a pair of AKG Q701 this week, and I plugged them into the Mac last night. These are amazing headphones. I understand now why they are so popular and get 100% positive reviews.
  
 Now if I can get the Vali up and running, I will hopefully get another good experience.


----------



## rmullins08

You could do either, but I would probably just plug it direct into the Analog out of the Denon.


----------



## FourPlay

Thank you Mullins for your response. I will give that a try and see how the AKGs sound.


----------



## FourPlay

Well Mullins, the Analog connect is going to my amp's Tuner. I'm not sure if I'll be able to use the Vali. Now I am curious if I will be able to use the LD MK III.
  
 If anyone has some ideas, they will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## jeremy205100

fourplay said:


> Well Mullins, the Analog connect is going to my amp's Tuner. I'm not sure if I'll be able to use the Vali. Now I am curious if I will be able to use the LD MK III.
> 
> If anyone has some ideas, they will be greatly appreciated.


 

 Get RCA y splitters on monoprice.


----------



## FourPlay

I contacted Schiit yesterday evening to get some help on how to connect the Vali to my audio system. They suggested that I plug the Vali into the Tape Out connect. After several minutes of untangling wires and cables, the Vali was finally connected to my amp.
  
 I plugged in the headphones before turning the Vali on to let it warm up. After about 30 mins, I could not wait any longer. When I turned up the volume on the Vali... Holy Schiit!!! I cannot begin to describe what I was hearing. The sound coming from my Focal speakers was not the same sound coming from the headphones. The sound was much fuller than hearing the sound from the speakers. You definitely get more detail, a wider range of the soundstage.
  
 As amazing this experience was last night, I can only imagine what the experience will be when the Little Dot MK III arrives. The Vali is putting out 8 watts, and the volume knob did not go past 9:00. The LD MK III puts out 30 watts. If the experience takes the sound/soundstage to the next level, I may find it hard to contain my enthusiasm.
  
 One thing I failed to mention. When the headphone amp is plugged into the Tape Out connect, I accidently turned my integrated amp off, but I was still hearing music coming out of the headphones. This was not expected to happen. However, I'm glad I have this feature and I can save on power usage by not turning the integrated amp on.
  
 But, this is always expected to happen in the world of home audio... and the reason we love this hobby so much!


----------



## Tuco1965

Just an FYI the Vali doesn't put out 8 watts.  http://schiit.com/products/vali


----------



## FourPlay

From the Schiit website - "*Power Consumption:* 8W"


----------



## Tuco1965

Yes you are right about consumption.  That is the power the amp can use, but not what it puts out.  Read above on the same page to see maximum output power depending on the impedance of your headphones.


----------



## jeremy205100

Also, more power ≠ better sound. The reason for more powerful amps is that some headphones require more power. But the AKGs are very efficient and likely won't benefit. The Little Dot Mk III might sound better (never heard it) but it's not really valid to say it will be because of the power output.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> I guess we won't be looking forward to a Schiit 8 Track player. Thurston will be dissapointed.


 
  
 This is vintage schiit.  I bought it for you.  Delivery is imminent.  When you least expect it, expect it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 https://www.ebth.com/items/1604271-apollo-xvi-8-track-car-stereo-tape-player


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> This is vintage schiit.  I bought it for you.  Delivery is imminent.  When you least expect it, expect it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Aren't you supposed to get your Mani today? I don't think your turntable is compatible.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Aren't you supposed to get your Mani today? I don't think your turntable is compatible.


 
  
 O.M.F.G.  Rangy has already started training to be able to crank that baby at the proper sustained rotational speed.  Now he's jumping around the room and swinging from the ceiling fan.  He's that excited.  I need to post this and close the page before he injures himself.  He's such a dedicated Lab Monkey, and he doesn't even mind when I insult him by calling him "monkey."  In fact he's a *mensch* of a monkey.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> O.M.F.G.  Rangy has already started training to be able to crank that baby at the proper sustained rotational speed.  Now he's jumping around the room and swinging from the ceiling fan.  He's that excited.  I need to post this and close the page before he injures himself.  He's such a dedicated Lab Monkey, and he doesn't even mind when I insult him by calling him "monkey."  In fact he's a *mensch* of a monkey.


 
 Can you teach him to roll tubes for your Lyr?


----------



## ThurstonX

Quick question for Schiit or any owners of the Mani.  Haven't hooked mine up yet, but doing due diligence by RTFM, and I notice the illustration in the manual (hard and PDF) of the gain switches is labeled backwards in relation to what's printed on the unit.  While I assume the unit is correct, I figured I'd check with y'all, and mention it for others.

 TIA.


----------



## Eee Pee

Mine appear backwards. I haven't changed them from how it came. What's the question?


----------



## ThurstonX

eee pee said:


> Mine appear backwards. I haven't changed them from how it came. What's the question?


 
  
 The question is, which is correct?  They are there for a reason: to change the gain.  I'll experiment a bit once I get everything hooked up.  Should be easy to tell, but it would be good to know which to trust.  Like I said, I'll assume for now that the unit is printed correctly, and I'll start with +30 dB (that was how my came).
  
 FWIW, the Load markings match on unit and in manual.
  
 Looking more closely at the switches, the word ON is printed on the H end, and I'd guess that makes sense (turning ON High gain).


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> The question is, which is correct?  They are there for a reason: to change the gain.  I'll experiment a bit once I get everything hooked up.  Should be easy to tell, but it would be good to know which to trust.  Like I said, I'll assume for now that the unit is printed correctly, and I'll start with +30 dB (that was how my came).
> 
> FWIW, the Load markings match on unit and in manual.
> 
> Looking more closely at the switches, the word ON is printed on the H end, and I'd guess that makes sense (turning ON High gain).


 
 I'm begining to think that Rangy should be in charge of this installation.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> I'm begining to think that Rangy should be in charge of this installation.


 
  
 We have lift off.  1970s vinyl... LOL.  Still, nice to be able to use the ol' TT, and I have stuff on vinyl I don't have in a digital format.


----------



## gefski

thurstonx said:


> Quick question for Schiit or any owners of the Mani.  Haven't hooked mine up yet, but doing due diligence by RTFM, and I notice the illustration in the manual (hard and PDF) of the gain switches is labeled backwards in relation to what's printed on the unit.  While I assume the unit is correct, I figured I'd check with y'all, and mention it for others.
> 
> 
> TIA.



Yep, the manual has it backwards. Going with the labeling on the Mani, I went with gain 1 = L and gain 2 = H, which should give 42db. That should be good for my (speaker based) system. Signet TK9e cartridge ends up pretty close in output to my Rega Apollo cd player and I'm listening at about 11:00 o'clock. I don't plan to use it with the head-fi rig.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> We have lift off.  1970s vinyl... LOL.  Still, nice to be able to use the ol' TT, and I have stuff on vinyl I don't have in a digital format.


 
 Looks like it's time to buy one more thing, an ADC.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Looks like it's time to buy one more thing, an ADC.


 
  
 It's in my M-Audio Audiophile 192.  I've digitized a few slabs, but I've got to relearn my TT.  I doubt I had the "Anti-Skating" set right, which, according to the manual, should match the tracking force of the cartridge.  Upgraded the cartridge to a Grado Blue.  Anything more seemed foolish.  Fortunately, Vinyl Engine has the manual.  I think Rangy's dog ate my original.  Fun schiit.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> It's in my M-Audio Audiophile 192.  I've digitized a few slabs, but I've got to relearn my TT.  I doubt I had the "Anti-Skating" set right, which, according to the manual, should match the tracking force of the cartridge.  Upgraded the cartridge to a Grado Blue.  Anything more seemed foolish.  Fortunately, Vinyl Engine has the manual.  I think Rangy's dog ate my original.  Fun schiit.


 
 Is he the dog that worked the Whitehouse and nailed that last fence jumper?


----------



## eee1111

i just jumped in and bought a Valhalla 2 and uber bifrost with usb to go with my sen hd600s
  
 im very new to this stuff have never owned a head amp 
  
 i just got the hd600s and needed more to drive them
  
  
 what am i in for?
  
 did i make the right choice?


----------



## madwolfa

eee1111 said:


> i just jumped in and bought a Valhalla 2 and uber bifrost with usb to go with my sen hd600s
> what am i in for?


 
  
 You, sir, are in for a treat.


----------



## eee1111

madwolfa said:


> You, sir, are in for a treat.


 
 that's what i was hoping to hear
  
 i have to wait until mid November to get it though....they are out of the valhalla2 atm


----------



## madwolfa

eee1111 said:


> that's what i was hoping to hear
> 
> i have to wait until mid November to get it though....they are out of the valhalla2 atm


 
  
 Ahh, bummer. I hate the wait.


----------



## superjawes

Valhalla + HD600....mmmmmmmmmmm.

Sounds like they're out prior to the holiday buying season. That's good news for holiday shoppers, bad news for you...you'll be happy with the result, though.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

^Was a very happy camper with the Valhalla, Modi, HD650 combination, a bit surprised they are out of stock, remember reading a post from Alex saying he wasn't going to allow a back order. Guess the Ragnarok and Yggy are pretty labor intensive.


----------



## Billheiser

eee1111 said:


> i just jumped in and bought a Valhalla 2 and uber bifrost with usb to go with my sen hd600s
> 
> im very new to this stuff have never owned a head amp
> 
> ...


 
  
  


eee1111 said:


> i have to wait until mid November to get it though....they are out of the valhalla2 atm


 
  
 How bout this for a good natured taunt?

 Ooh, sounding so good, don't have to wait for November, ooh...


----------



## eee1111

billheiser said:


> How bout this for a good natured taunt?
> 
> Ooh, sounding so good, don't have to wait for November, ooh...


 
 oh my......there it is
  
 i cant wait until mid November
  
 i think im going to stack them....i have plenty of time to think it through


----------



## eee1111

is foobar the best program to play my flac files through them?


----------



## madwolfa

eee1111 said:


> is foobar the best program to play my flac files through them?


 
  
 Yes, + WASAPI/ASIO output plugin.


----------



## BeatsWork

eee1111 said:


> is foobar the best program to play my flac files through them?


 

 Depends on your needs. For a free, customizable app with large user community and wealth of available plugins/skins it's hard to beat. If you have a more complex setup, large library, want everything including the kitchen sink built in and don't mind shelling out a bit of cash I'd highly recommend looking at Jriver Media Player. There's a free demo available.


----------



## Billheiser

eee1111 said:


> oh my......there it is
> 
> i cant wait until mid November
> 
> i think im going to stack them....i have plenty of time to think it through



I rack 'em but would stack 'em
Would look right but I'm tight in the height.


----------



## eee1111

http://schiit.com/guides/dsd-setup
  
 went there and tried to get to.....*.Step 6: Take the “foo_input_sacd.dll” file and drag it to the Installed Components window in Foobar’sPreferences: Components folder. Yes, just drag and drop. It should now show both “ASIO Support” and “Super Audio CD Decoder” components, like this:*
  
 it does not work correctly
  
 im stuck at this part...it does not make “ASIO Support” and “Super Audio CD Decoder” components
  
 i do it exactly as it says to do it


----------



## john57

You need to do a right click and should have the word install in bold  click on it. That will set up the path to the file.


----------



## BeatsWork

eee1111 said:


> http://schiit.com/guides/dsd-setup
> 
> went there and tried to get to.....*.Step 6: Take the “foo_input_sacd.dll” file and drag it to the Installed Components window in Foobar’sPreferences: Components folder. Yes, just drag and drop. It should now show both “ASIO Support” and “Super Audio CD Decoder” components, like this:*
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're looking at instructions for DSD setup which uber bifrost does not support.  Only the Loki supports DSD.  Output in Foobar should look like this.


----------



## BeatsWork

Anyone with Mjolnir/Gunghir recabled Grado 325is? Have HE-500 and wondering if worth the cost/effort?


----------



## Themorganlett85

So I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 600OHM headphones to go with my Valhalla 2 and Uber Bifrost. I can't wait to hear them and see how different they sound from the HD-650s.


----------



## grrorr76

themorganlett85 said:


> So I just pulled the trigger on a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 600OHM headphones to go with my Valhalla 2 and Uber Bifrost. I can't wait to hear them and see how different they sound from the HD-650s.


 

 I have that combination bar the headphones , I have the Beyer t1's if they are anything like mine it should sound bloody wonderful.


----------



## Chozart

T1's Tesla here too, with an uber bifrost and an asgard2. Pretty darn amazing.  you'll definitely enjoy the sound synergy of the schiit gear and the Beyers.
  
 Then again, I think the Schiit gear does well with just about any headphones. The HE400's are much more in your face with my stack, while the Beyers are more relaxed... but .. stunning.
  
 It took me a week to adjust from the sound signature of the HE400's to the T1's. At first I felt they sounded thin, but that feeling is gone now. I bought the Beyers used, but according to the seller, they didn't have much headtime, and given their condition and sound development I'd have to agree.
  
 Thus, if you feel at first that the sound isn't what you hoped for... relax, and give the Beyers a chance to open up. Just let them play music even when you don't have them on your head. If they're anything like the T1's, they need time to burn in and open up.  Also, I don't know how long you've been listening to the HD-650's, but your ears will have to adjust to a new sound signature too.
  
 Have fun!


----------



## ThurstonX

Anyone with a Mani have a weird static problem?  It's like an electrical buzz that comes and goes.  I was listening via mine tonight and noticed it.  Went through a few different configurations to try to isolate it, and it definitely only happens with the Mani in the chain.  I tried various cables, using only TT to Mani to Lyr, and TT to Mani to JDS Labs C5 (yet another cable change), and it was still present.  It's not constant, but comes and goes many times a minute, predominantly on the left channel, and, IIRC, only when there are cables plugged into the INs.

 Here's the weird part.  I tested without anything on the INs and pretty sure it was clear.  Then I plugged the TT's RCAs in, *but with the TT's power unplugged*, and it started again.
  
 With the SYS and Bifrost in the chain, I could switch to the Bifrost and the problem went away.
  
 I can't recall my TT ever making that noise when it was plugged into the Phono In on my Kenwood AVR.  The only thing that's changed is the new Grado Green cartridge, but again, the problem happened when there was no power to the TT.
  
 I'm suspicious of the wall wart, but being 16 VAC, I don't have a spare.  I'm also suspicious of the Ins on the Mani, since the problem starts when cables are plugged in.  I'll also try with my old Audio Technica cartridge.
  
 I'll keep troubleshooting it (back to the old Kenwood, but using the Mani this time), but I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this or has any ideas.


----------



## gefski

thurstonx said:


> Anyone with a Mani have a weird static problem?  It's like an electrical buzz that comes and goes.




No hum in my system with both RCAs and TT ground plugged into Mani. If you're not using a ground, try one; if you are using a ground, try without.


----------



## ThurstonX

gefski said:


> No hum in my system with both RCAs and TT ground plugged into Mani. If you're not using a ground, try one; if you are using a ground, try without.


 
  
 Sorry, guess my description of the problem wasn't clear enough.  It's definitely *not* a ground loop hum.  I know what they sound like.  This is intermittent, sporadic, not regular "sharp" static-y electrical noise.  I wouldn't even call it a buzz, as that implies something fairly regular.
  
 It's definitely (probably, LOL) one, or some combo, of the TT, new Grado cartridge or Mani.  Again, the fact that the noise occurs when the TT RCAs are plugged in, but power to the TT is unplugged... I don't see how anything's coming from the TT or cartridge, but I'm no EE.  Something residual?
  
 Going to take the Mani and my portable C5 on a little road trip today to test with a couple different TTs.  That should help eliminate one or two suspects.
  
 I don't want anyone to think I'm blaming the Mani or Schiit.  I love their schiit


----------



## BeatsWork

thurstonx said:


> Anyone with a Mani have a weird static problem?  It's like an electrical buzz that comes and goes.  I was listening via mine tonight and noticed it.  Went through a few different configurations to try to isolate it, and it definitely only happens with the Mani in the chain.  I tried various cables, using only TT to Mani to Lyr, and TT to Mani to JDS Labs C5 (yet another cable change), and it was still present.  It's not constant, but comes and goes many times a minute, predominantly on the left channel, and, IIRC, only when there are cables plugged into the INs.
> 
> Here's the weird part.  I tested without anything on the INs and pretty sure it was clear.  Then I plugged the TT's RCAs in, *but with the TT's power unplugged*, and it started again.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't have Mani but by chance is your cell phone near any of your gear?  Cell sends intermittent "I'm here" signal to coordinate with towers and can often be picked up as EMI.


----------



## ThurstonX

beatswork said:


> Don't have Mani but by chance is your cell phone near any of your gear?  Cell sends intermittent "I'm here" signal to coordinate with towers and can often be picked up as EMI.


 
  
 Nowhere near, but thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## ThurstonX

Same piece o' Schiit, different question.  The Mani manual says to turn off all other components in the chain before turning off the Mani, and vice versa (Mani on first).  If I've got the Mani going out into the SYS, will switching to the other input on the SYS provide sufficient protection so I can just turn off the Mani?  It's getting to be a royal PITA testing using the Lyr when I want to turn the Mani on and off.  Would be good to know for regular use, too.

 TIA.


----------



## Eee Pee

It could be your cart or tonearm wires picking up interference.  My three Grado carts and two VPI arms do that.  Even just the little wire loop that VPI uses for antiskate picks up noise.  Put your hand over them or move them around and it goes away.  If the turntable is anything like my VPIs or Sota, then the power for the table is for the motor to drive the platter, and has nothing to do with the cart.
  
 My Mani is dang quiet.


----------



## Defiant00

thurstonx said:


> Same piece o' Schiit, different question.  The Mani manual says to turn off all other components in the chain before turning off the Mani, and vice versa (Mani on first).  If I've got the Mani going out into the SYS, will switching to the other input on the SYS provide sufficient protection so I can just turn off the Mani?  It's getting to be a royal PITA testing using the Lyr when I want to turn the Mani on and off.  Would be good to know for regular use, too.
> 
> TIA.


 
  
 While I obviously don't have your setup (or even a Mani), yes, switching to the other inputs with SYS should be fine, since at that point it's equivalent to having unplugged Mani from the rest of your system.


----------



## ThurstonX

eee pee said:


> It could be your cart or tonearm wires picking up interference.  My three Grado carts and two VPI arms do that.  Even just the little wire loop that VPI uses for antiskate picks up noise.  Put your hand over them or move them around and it goes away.  If the turntable is anything like my VPIs or Sota, then the power for the table is for the motor to drive the platter, and has nothing to do with the cart.
> 
> My Mani is dang quiet.


 
  
 If it's the TT, hopefully my tests on others in two different environments will expose it.  I'm not opposed to picking up a spare and fiddling with the JVC.
  
 I switched back to my old Audio-Technica 3003 and it's much livelier than the Grado Green.  The latter seems a bit flat and veiled in comparison.  Not sure how much use the A-T got; a fair amount when I first had it and there were no CDs, but very little in the past couple decades, so I think it's still viable.  The Grado may go back, if they do refunds.
  
 Thanks for the advice.  I'm not sure how I can test all that, though.  Both carts exhibit the static-y pops and occasional "scrapes" (like a longish electrical screech; pops are far more common), and they only "exposed" wires are the power cord (there is no ground wire) and the RCA out cables.


----------



## ThurstonX

defiant00 said:


> While I obviously don't have your setup (or even a Mani), yes, switching to the other inputs with SYS should be fine, since at that point it's equivalent to having unplugged Mani from the rest of your system.


 
  
 About to put that theory to the test....
  
 MY HEAD EXPLODED! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Nah, you were right.  Thanks for confirming.  Back to troubleshooting.


----------



## Sasasd

Just tried HE400s with my new 1+1 and...
  
 I found sound quality equal to Modi + Vali combo, Schiit is maybe little bit clearer but I think I could not tell difference in ABX.


----------



## rebelinho

Hi guys. I'm on the quest for a desktop DAC and amp (I have the E11 but for home use is just stupid), and after seeing the stuff about Fulla I was smashed by the Hype Train. Is there a spec list already? Any release dates? How about input and output options?


----------



## Defiant00

rebelinho said:


> Hi guys. I'm on the quest for a desktop DAC and amp (I have the E11 but for home use is just stupid), and after seeing the stuff about Fulla I was smashed by the Hype Train. Is there a spec list already? Any release dates? How about input and output options?


 
  
 I don't believe there are any real specs out yet, but it appears to be USB in and one single-ended headphone out (1/8 inch?).


----------



## jexby

defiant00 said:


> I don't believe there are any real specs out yet, but it appears to be USB in and one single-ended headphone out (1/8 inch?).


 
  
 confirmed as I listed to the Fulla at RMAF.
 one micro mini USB in, one 1/8 headphone out.
  
 similar DAC chip to what's in Modi, and about the only tweak left might be the gain values.
 Fulla was super (too?) powerful for IEMs, couldn't go past 9am on volume knob.
  
 edit: to mini.


----------



## BeatsWork

rebelinho said:


> Hi guys. I'm on the quest for a desktop DAC and amp (I have the E11 but for home use is just stupid), and after seeing the stuff about Fulla I was smashed by the Hype Train. Is there a spec list already? Any release dates? How about input and output options?


 
  
 Just curious - if you're looking at desktop setup are you looking at Fulla based on price?  Otherwise Modi/Magni would be logical consideration


----------



## loki993

Looking for a desktop setup and an upgrade from my fiio e10. Phones right now are DT770 80s and down the road looking for some harder to drive phones...AKG Sextetts, K/Q701s, Grados...I know huge difference in signature there, Maybe some orthos but most likely some vintage Yamahas or HE400s if I can find a deal..anything more and they are far out of my price range. So basically something that should drive just about anything save for the most power hungry phones. 
  
 I started out looking at the Asgard2..but I wondered if id be able to tell the difference from a Magni using what I have and what I will probably have down the road. Ive seen everything from the Asgard is totally in a class above to there inst much difference at all depending. Plus if I went with the Magni I could upgrade my DAC too..otherwise with the asgard id have to use the DAC from the Fiio, which has a WM8740, not sure if that great or not but it should get the job done for a little wile at least.


----------



## jeremy205100

jexby said:


> confirmed as I listed to the Fulla at RMAF.
> one micro usb in, one 1/8 headphone out.
> 
> similar DAC chip to what's in Modi, and about the only tweak left might be the gain values.
> Fulla was super (too?) powerful for IEMs, couldn't go past 9am on volume knob.


 

 Micro or mini USB?


----------



## jexby

jeremy205100 said:


> Micro or mini USB?


 
  
  
 90% sure it was Mini.


----------



## reddog

loki993 said:


> Looking for a desktop setup and an upgrade from my fiio e10. Phones right now are DT770 80s and down the road looking for some harder to drive phones...AKG Sextetts, K/Q701s, Grados...I know huge difference in signature there, Maybe some orthos but most likely some vintage Yamahas or HE400s if I can find a deal..anything more and they are far out of my price range. So basically something that should drive just about anything save for the most power hungry phones.
> 
> I started out looking at the Asgard2..but I wondered if id be able to tell the difference from a Magni using what I have and what I will probably have down the road. Ive seen everything from the Asgard is totally in a class above to there inst much difference at all depending. Plus if I went with the Magni I could upgrade my DAC too..otherwise with the asgard id have to use the DAC from the Fiio, which has a WM8740, not sure if that great or not but it should get the job done for a little wile at least.



I would look at a Schiit Audio's Valhalla 2, it's a good tube amp with some power behind it.


----------



## loki993

reddog said:


> I would look at a Schiit Audio's Valhalla 2, it's a good tube amp with some power behind it.


 
 The Valhalla is kind of out of my price range unfortunately, trying to stay around 250..plus wouldn't the tubes bloat the bass on my DT770s to much?


----------



## eee1111

is the lyr 2 that much better than valhalla 2?
  
 im getting the uber bifrost for sure
 but not sure on the amp
  
 i have hd 600s and will prob get better headphones in time
  
 not sure on what way to go


----------



## madwolfa

eee1111 said:


> is the lyr 2 that much better than valhalla 2?
> i have hd 600s and will prob get better headphones in time


 
  
 If you will stick to high impedance cans like HD600, then Valhalla 2 would do just fine. If you were thinking about getting some planars, then I'd get Lyr.
 Or you could save yourself some cash and grab an Asgard 2, which would do almost any can out there without a problem. No messing with tubes either.


----------



## madwolfa

loki993 said:


> The Valhalla is kind of out of my price range unfortunately, trying to stay around 250..plus wouldn't the tubes bloat the bass on my DT770s to much?


 
  
 Asgard 2 sounds like a perfect amp for you.


----------



## superjawes

The big reasons to get an Asgard 2 over a Magni are:

1) Gain Switch
2) Preamp Outs

I've heard that Asgard sounds "better" than Magni, but not so much a night/day difference. So I think you should choose based on these. Magni should still be able to drive many, many models, but it lacks the utility of the second generation products.


----------



## Defiant00

As mentioned above, Asgard 2 is more versatile, but I have little confidence I'd be able to tell the two apart by sound even if I had them side-by-side.


----------



## superjawes

And that's why I brought up the gain switch and preamp outs. Actually, I've been thinking about picking up an Asgard 2 the next time I upgrade my office. I could get a pair of studio monitors to replace my trusty Logitech speakers, and the Asgard would give me a reason to buy a really nice pair of planar magnetic headphones that wouldn't play as nice with my Valhalla 1...


----------



## ThurstonX

Bad news on the Mani front.  Isolated the problem to the Mani, most likely the wall wart.  I read where the thin wire can act like an antenna.  Seems that's what's going on here.  I plugged the TT directly into the Lyr, and with the volume damn near max'd, I heard music and no static.  Added the Mani to the chain and got instant static.  Pity, as I like it a lot, but this is the only location I can use.
  
 Back to the drawing board.  Should I get a Cambridge or try something far less expensive?  I already no I'm going to miss the gain settings on the Mani.


----------



## superjawes

Before you throw out the Mani, check with Schiit. They might have a solution.

And from a coneptual POV, maybe look into shielding the power cable? I feel like there should be a way to block some of the static EMI...I could be wrong, though.

EDIT: also, this is the kind of thing Schiit should know about for future enahnces/fixes/upgrades/whatever.


----------



## ThurstonX

superjawes said:


> Before you throw out the Mani, check with Schiit. They might have a solution.
> 
> And from a coneptual POV, maybe look into shielding the power cable? I feel like there should be a way to block some of the static EMI...I could be wrong, though.
> 
> EDIT: also, this is the kind of thing Schiit should know about for future enahnces/fixes/upgrades/whatever.


 
  
 Thought about shielding bu don't have the material and time is short.  I'll give them a full report, but I doubt there's much they can do.  I did a lot of reading, and wall warts are often mentioned as the source of the problem.  TTs are, too, FWIW, but my test was pretty good, I think.  And in a different, temporary location, the Mani was fine.  Last thing to do is replace the WiFi adapter, which I have and was going to do anyway.  Doubt that'll matter, as WiFi signals are WiFi signals, but we shall see.


----------



## rebelinho

jexby said:


> confirmed as I listed to the Fulla at RMAF.
> one micro mini USB in, one 1/8 headphone out.
> 
> similar DAC chip to what's in Modi, and about the only tweak left might be the gain values.
> ...


 
  
 Alright, thanks for the info. Is there any amp comparable (soundsignature wise) to the one that should be on the Fulla? Or is it a brand new Schiit headphone amp? Just to know what I can expect
  


beatswork said:


> Just curious - if you're looking at desktop setup are you looking at Fulla based on price?  Otherwise Modi/Magni would be logical consideration


 
  
 Exactly. The Fulla would be less than half of the Magni/Modi combo! And money isn't raining on my pocket these days. Also I live in Portugal, and shipping would had an extra 40$ to the price.


----------



## jexby

rebelinho said:


> Alright, thanks for the info. Is there any amp comparable (soundsignature wise) to the one that should be on the Fulla? Or is it a brand new Schiit headphone amp? Just to know what I can expect


 
  
 no clue about direct comparisons, as RMAF was pretty loud and didn't listen to the Magni there.
 likely you should wait until it's announced to see what/how the headphone amp is implemented.


----------



## rebelinho

jexby said:


> likely you should wait until it's announced to see what/how the headphone amp is implemented.


 
  
 and that's exactly what I'll do. thanks for all the help


----------



## loki993

superjawes said:


> The big reasons to get an Asgard 2 over a Magni are:
> 
> 1) Gain Switch
> 2) Preamp Outs
> ...


 
  
  


defiant00 said:


> As mentioned above, Asgard 2 is more versatile, but I have little confidence I'd be able to tell the two apart by sound even if I had them side-by-side.


 
  
 I use headphones exclusively with my computer so I would see a need for preamps for my use. As for the gain that's trickier...but I wouldnt see a situation that Id ever be using IEMS at my computer at home either aside from testing purposes. 
  


thurstonx said:


> Bad news on the Mani front.  Isolated the problem to the Mani, most likely the wall wart.  I read where the thin wire can act like an antenna.  Seems that's what's going on here.  I plugged the TT directly into the Lyr, and with the volume damn near max'd, I heard music and no static.  Added the Mani to the chain and got instant static.  Pity, as I like it a lot, but this is the only location I can use.
> 
> Back to the drawing board.  Should I get a Cambridge or try something far less expensive?  I already no I'm going to miss the gain settings on the Mani.


 
  
 So is that issue just your TT or do you think it would be an issue with a lot of them? I nearly literally have my finger on the trigger for one of these as soon as I get paid friday.....


----------



## ThurstonX

loki993 said:


> So is that issue just your TT or do you think it would be an issue with a lot of them? I nearly literally have my finger on the trigger for one of these as soon as I get paid friday.....


 
  
 Neither.  It's the environment.  I plugged the TT directly into the Lyr.  No noise, even when cranked.  Added the Mani, got the noise.  Tested in another location with a Kenwood AVR + speakers, and a portable + cans.  *Maybe* heard a little somethin' with the cans, but that was with no music and volume cranked.  Didn't notice anything with the AVR + speakers.

 All that tells me it's the environment, specifically WiFi signals.  When I disabled the WiFi adapter in the PC, I still had the noise.  When I enabled the adapter, the pops/crackles turned into a screech (adapter searching for signal).  After it connected, the problem went back to pops/crackles, with an occasional longer noise (not like the aforementioned screech).  I changed to a new adapter today, set it to use the 5 GHz channel, but of course the wall wart's wire antenna just picked that up, too.  Yes, my assumption is the wall wart.  Read quite a few posts on various forums spanning a decade or so, and the wall wart came up quite often.  The funniest were people saying they were picking up radio stations.  Well, not so funny for them.
  
 I like the Mani, and wish it would have worked out in that environment.  I like all the gain settings.  I love that it stacks on top of my SYS perfectly.  C'est la vie.  And I like Schiit's 15-Day return policy.  Gave me ample time to try it out.  I won't try another preamp unless the company offers a similar policy.  Maybe a cheap-o Audio-Technica TT with built-in preamp is the only thing that will work.  Maybe even that won't work.  Still have a few things to try.
  
 So, I'd say buy that schiit with confidence.  Just keep the 15-day policy in mind.  Hope it works out for you


----------



## Wildcatsare1

eee1111 said:


> is the lyr 2 that much better than valhalla 2?
> 
> im getting the uber bifrost for sure
> but not sure on the amp
> ...




The Valhalla 2, or original, is absolute magic with high impedence headphones, had the Valhalla with my 650's and loved it. My Lyr 2 is wonderful with my 560, it's fantastic with planars.


----------



## CJs06

So I have been listening to my turntable setup (see signature) and the only system I've heard that I liked more (subjective "better") was a Auralic Vega > Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass > Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs listening to Creedance Clearwater in DSD format. However, to affirm what Thurston is experiencing with the Mani, I definitely hear alot of static noise with the Mani in my chain (even compared to the Pro-Ject Phono Box I was using earlier).
  
 Bottom line, some static noise that I only hear when there is no music playing will not remove me from using this setup... oh no 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyways, I am curious what things I can do in order to possibly reduce the static noise. Power related tweaks come to mind but please don't suggest a $500 isolated power cord, or a gear levatation device... lol.


----------



## rmullins08

Some people have suggested that even having the the power cables touching could lead to the static.  I would just check to see if they are tangled a bit.


----------



## CJs06

rmullins08 said:


> Some people have suggested that even having the the power cables touching could lead to the static.  I would just check to see if they are tangled a bit.


 
 Yeah I already cleared up the cables and that didn't really make a difference as far as I could tell.


----------



## ThurstonX

cjs06 said:


> So I have been listening to my turntable setup (see signature) and the only system I've heard that I liked more (subjective "better") was a Auralic Vega > Cavalli Audio Liquid Glass > Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs listening to Creedance Clearwater in DSD format. However, to affirm what Thurston is experiencing with the Mani, I definitely hear alot of static noise with the Mani in my chain (even compared to the Pro-Ject Phono Box I was using earlier).
> 
> Bottom line, some static noise that I only hear when there is no music playing will not remove me from using this setup... oh no
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're fortunate the static noise is not there when you've got music.  For me, it cut right through.  I got this reply to a message I sent to phonopreamps.com:
  
 We doubt very much that the wall wart is the issue; transformer types can pass noise which is induced in the room's electrical wiring, but the SMPS type we supply is pretty much immune to this. We suspect you'll find that simple physical proximity between the noise source and preamp is the only important factor, _and_ that the RF noise is the warning sign of a progressively failing computer power supply rather than noise generated by the WiFi adaptor itself. Turning the adaptor on and off is changing the current load on the computer PS, and the noises you are hearing are likely generated by the computer PS as it tries to cope with insufficient filtering due to leaky or low value capacitors. If so, disabling other PS loads like hard drives and additional video cards will also affect the RF noise level.

     Return period is thirty days provided the conditions shown on our FAQ page are met.

 Regards,
 Ed
  
  
 Haven't had a chance to test it with the PC off and unplugged, but I'll probably unbox the Mani later to see.  I've already got the RMA.  If it is the PSU, I'll be annoyed, since that PC is less than a year old, though it's a low-end Corsair, so cheap could very well enter into it.


----------



## CJs06

thurstonx said:


> You're fortunate the static noise is not there when you've got music.  For me, it cut right through.  I got this reply to a message I sent to phonopreamps.com:
> 
> We doubt very much that the wall wart is the issue; transformer types can pass noise which is induced in the room's electrical wiring, but the SMPS type we supply is pretty much immune to this. We suspect you'll find that simple physical proximity between the noise source and preamp is the only important factor, _and_ that the RF noise is the warning sign of a progressively failing computer power supply rather than noise generated by the WiFi adaptor itself. Turning the adaptor on and off is changing the current load on the computer PS, and the noises you are hearing are likely generated by the computer PS as it tries to cope with insufficient filtering due to leaky or low value capacitors. If so, disabling other PS loads like hard drives and additional video cards will also affect the RF noise level.
> 
> ...


 
 I have my Mac Mini plugged up to the same power strip my system is on. I guess I could play around with isolating the devices a bit, I dunno.


----------



## ThurstonX

cjs06 said:


> I have my Mac Mini plugged up to the same power strip my system is on. I guess I could play around with isolating the devices a bit, I dunno.


 
  
 It definitely takes a lot of experimenting.  FWIW, I moved the Mani about as far from that PC as I could (~7 feet), and used a different outlet via power strip.  Still got the static, but didn't try the disable/enable WiFi adapter test.  Static at that location was enough.  I still think it's the wall wart; that or the Mani itself.  If the PSU is that bad, why haven't I heard it before?  I've got loads of audio gear in that room.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## Themorganlett85

Just got my Beyerdynamic DT990s in today and so far I'm totally blown away, I may actually like them a little better than my HD650s. They sound AMAZING with my Valhalla 2.


----------



## CJs06

themorganlett85 said:


> Just got my Beyerdynamic DT990s in today and so far I'm totally blown away, I may actually like them a little better than my HD650s. They sound AMAZING with my Valhalla 2.


 

 The DT990s are really underrated, I haven't tried the 600ohm version yet, but I can't imagine there would be much difference in sound signature.


----------



## huberd

I agree, I like my DT990 they sound really nice with the Valhalla.


----------



## huberd

I even like the DT-990's better than the T1. Much better and more musical.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> It definitely takes a lot of experimenting.  FWIW, I moved the Mani about as far from that PC as I could (~7 feet), and used a different outlet via power strip.  Still got the static, but didn't try the disable/enable WiFi adapter test.  Static at that location was enough.  I still think it's the wall wart; that or the Mani itself.  If the PSU is that bad, why haven't I heard it before?  I've got loads of audio gear in that room.
> 
> Good luck.
> [/quote
> ...


----------



## Baldr

Now I suppose with 40+ years of audio experience I'm supposed to come off as experienced and all (or at least mostly) knowing. Not always true. When I designed the Mani, I did so, as always, in a vacuum. When I built my first phono stages back in the 1970's, there were two big problems, that no one else was paying strict attention to. One was stay tight on the RIAA equalization. Well all of my stuff has been within a tenth of a db either way – great! At the time, and still yet today, _most_ everyone else is 10 to fifty times worse. Check the reviews. The next problem is noise (circuit noise, not external system noise). Again, back in the day, I kicked ass and made the quietest tube stuff at the time.  Also, the following imperative – no filters in the signal path – they sound like ass. So I built my early Theta phono preamps just like that.  So much for good news and proper design.
  
 I then sold enough of them to get a pretty good sample size. I got a few calls for funny noise or hum in the background – sometimes loud. So I contacted my former engineering boss (while I was still employable) Ralph Morrison, who wrote a book on grounding and shielding techniques in instrumentation and redid my circuit boards for the Theta preamp – the result was that it sounded much better, but the same interference troubles persisted with the same user. At the time, I still hadn't considered in context the following:
  
 1. Phono signals are 60-80db smaller than line level signals. That's a thousandth to a ten thousandth the size. That makes whatever external system noise is present 1000 to 10000 times bigger in comparison (huge!!!)
  
 2. Phono cartridges are in tonearms, with clips and contacts of various metal platings, connected to more contacts on jacks and connectors of even more dissimilar metal combinations, eventually arriving at the Mani input. Dissimilar metals as they slowly oxidize form diode equivalents which are radio signal detectors. The phono cartridges all have different properties which may simulate (or not) radio antennae. You eliminate this by disconnecting/reconnecting the connectors periodically. (I remember with nostalgia when audio grifters used to sell chemicals to smear all over your mating audio contacts to improve the sound. They usually featured “proprietary ingredients” such as WD-40 or badger spooge to transform the listening experience.)
  
 3. There are three major ways for external interference to enter a Mani (or any other phono preamp). Through the air (that's why Mani has a steel chassis- to keep it out); through the input (see number 2 above); and through the power supply. FCC tests require makers of devices which produce RF to print warnings about reorienting the equipment. etc.
  
 Now, in the era of the Mani, there are several newer complicating factors:
  
 1. Cell phones. The worst polluter in your environment. If you are so addicted to it, get it out of the room with your turntable. Better yet, drop it in a pail of water. I guarantee that it will then not interfere with your system. You can see who's dog farted or who's popped a zit today on Facebook with far less squinting from your regular laptop, which will undoubtedly be close. Actually talk to more people rather than texting or using social media. You will definitely require improved social skills to compensate for being a vinyl nerd. Get a landline – everyone will understand you better and there will be no annoying dropouts or missed calls when you turn your head 30 degrees.
  
 2. WiFi routers. RF splat. Probably worth getting as far away as possible from anything audio. Move it closer to where the cable comes in, or move your system away from the router.
  
 3. Corrupt FCC certs. It is common place in many overseas manufacturing environments to obtain your FCC credentials by buying them. Hence, a lot more radiation. This particularly affects routers.
  
 4. Much of the phono equipment in use today was manufactured 30-50 years ago. It requires at a minimum maintenance.
  
 So What????? Well, it seems that almost 40 years after Introducing the Theta preamp, I produce a Mani phono preamp, expecting different results.
  
 And now we still have users with interference. To all of them, and ThurstonX in particular, all I can do is encourage experimentation. It may well be the Mani Wall Wart, the cartridge-arm wiring, or many other possibilities. We will bear no grudges for any returned Manis at Schiit.
  
 My point is that Vinyl nerds are entering an area that requires experience, endurance, and mutual self-support. Neither blame nor falling on swords works here. This is not a plug and play universe – that is for people with throwaway ear-buds plugged straight into their laptops. There are a LOT of permutations and combinations. There are a lot of two steps forward, one back in this subset of our audio hobby. You will sell/return gear that you shouldn't have, and hang on to poorly performing crap for way too long. But it gets better. For me, 40 years later, it is starting to get really good. So why do it????
  
 Because it is worth it!!


----------



## loki993

So is the Asgard or the Magni good for high impedance phones? Because I keep seeing things that the asgard is designed for low impedance phones that require high current...but I don't see anything about high impedance..


----------



## jexby

with all due respect to Mike, Schiit and plastic frisbee disc lovers everywhere-
 I'd rather jump in a pile of dung than worry about ever hooking up a turntable again in my lifetime.
 oh gosh my needle cartridge isn't sharp enough?  gasp, there is a nick on my favorite song 2 on side B?  pffft. 
 kill. it. already.
  
  
  
 wax cylinders, waxing nostalgic, and weeping about the glory days of vinyl is played.
 this coming from a 45+ who grew up on LPs, tape decks and other bunk with scratches, ticks, hiss, dolby NR.
  
 the media format was not the glory of those eras, it was the recording quality of the engineers.
 if one is so attached to that one recording, of that one band, of that one LP.  feel free, torture yourself and do all the insanity of vinyl cleaning, dust removal, arm balancing and connectivity to put your ears in supposed audible bliss.
  
  
 I'd rather listen to something new, with no clicks, cracks, pops and skips. lossless from a bandcamp purchase via a DAC and my Lyr 2 tubes before I'll go into my basement and pine "oh I wish I could play this old record by the Flaming Lips I bought in Milwaukee in 1987."
 (long live Atomic.)
  
 I'm all for different strokes for different folks, but this vinyl-can-still-be-the-be-all-and-end-all is not supported (or wanted) by this non-vinyl nerd.
 music on.


----------



## Eee Pee

Right on, Mike!  Cell phone part made me laugh.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Hey Thurston,
  
 How are you grounding the Mani (apologies if you have already answered this)?


----------



## amnesiac75

I feel where you are coming from jexby after buying the gungnir I was excited to hook up my CD player along side my computer to play music only to find the act of changing CDs the way I did for over 25 years a hassle I do not think I will ever go back to physical media again other than to rip a cd to my computer let alone worry about vinyl. The way I look at it is that I just want to hear good music with the least amount of hassle.


----------



## superjawes

loki993 said:


> So is the Asgard or the Magni good for high impedance phones? Because I keep seeing things that the asgard is designed for low impedance phones that require high current...but I don't see anything about high impedance..


I have used my HD600 (300 Ohms) with my Magni, and that sounds "good", but my Valhalla definitely sounds "better".

Basically, it will work, but something with higher voltage output will likely sound better.


----------



## madwolfa

loki993 said:


> So is the Asgard or the Magni good for high impedance phones? Because I keep seeing things that the asgard is designed for low impedance phones that require high current...but I don't see anything about high impedance..




Asgard is good for both.


----------



## adamaley

thurstonx said:


> It definitely takes a lot of experimenting.  FWIW, I moved the Mani about as far from that PC as I could (~7 feet), and used a different outlet via power strip.  Still got the static, but didn't try the disable/enable WiFi adapter test.  Static at that location was enough.  I still think it's the wall wart; that or the Mani itself.  If the PSU is that bad, why haven't I heard it before?  I've got loads of audio gear in that room.
> 
> Good luck.




ThurstonX, I experienced similar problems to you and nearly went mad trying to figure out the cause. I experimented endlessly to no avail. My problems were solved using the hum-x device purchased on eBay for about $50. It is grounded as well, so I had no qualms connecting my computer to it before plugging it into the wall. All the best.


----------



## loki993

So lets throw this in the the mix now.if somewhere were to offer me a good deal on the original Asgard would that be a good option over the Magni? At that point I'm not so sure since the Asgard2 has been upgraded so much....but it should still have to power output though on paper at least the Mgani looks nearly as powerful...but I'm sure that not actually the case.


----------



## CJs06

Thanks Mike for the insight on phono preamps and your Mani. I also didn't know badger spooge was a thing at one point lol. We've come so far.
  
 To jexby, please don't become one of those evil villians whose sole drive is to exterminate all vinyl. I don't want it to die. Plus think about it this way, if civilization survives after a nuclear holocaust, the only music that will still be available (provided it doesn't melt in the initial blasts) is vinyl records and compact discs. Which format will be easier to play then?


----------



## madwolfa

loki993 said:


> So lets throw this in the the mix now.if somewhere were to offer me a good deal on the original Asgard would that be a good option over the Magni? At that point I'm not so sure since the Asgard2 has been upgraded so much....but it should still have to power output though on paper at least the Mgani looks nearly as powerful...but I'm sure that not actually the case.


 
  
 I'd go for Asgard 2.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> Hey Thurston,
> 
> How are you grounding the Mani (apologies if you have already answered this)?


 
  
 Didn't, since the turntable had no ground wire, though the manual for one permutation of that model shows a ground coming out with the RCAs.  I returned the Mani, as the 15-day period was nearing its end, and I've got other stuff to do.  I will try again with something, as I do agree with Mike.  If the Mani had a 30-day return policy, I'd be experimenting like a mad scientist.  I did what I could in the time I had, but couldn't make the problem go away, and couldn't live with it.
  
 Regarding cellphones and routers, my cell never comes close to that room, and is often turned off, as it rarely gets used.  It's my insurance policy for the car breaking down, not my means of communication.  The funny thing with the WiFi router is that the Mani worked best in the room where the router sits about seven feet away (see earlier write-up re: said testing).  The room where the TT lives is a little box one story up with lots of schiit in it.  While I have no idea if it was a valid test, I took the Mani out of the chain and plugged the TT directly into the Lyr.  Obviously audio was barely audible, but I also did not hear the problem.  I know that's not an ideal test, and wonder if it truly eliminated the TT as the problem.
  
 I wish I could have tested grounding the TT to the Mani, but doesn't that mean the Mani acts as the ground?  Excuse my ignorance.  I'm happy to learn.  While the TT's plug is composed of two straight blades, I've never experienced any ground loop hum with it.


----------



## ThurstonX

baldr said:


> Spoiler: Mike's Wisdom
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for taking the time to educate this ignorant vinyl lover (sorry, jexby, but I've got too much on-vinyl-only tuneage to give it up), and to encourage continued experimentation.  I do wish the Mani had worked out for a few reasons.  When it did work in a temp location (coexisting happily with a WiFi router seven feet away) it was great.


----------



## ThurstonX

adamaley said:


> ThurstonX, I experienced similar problems to you and nearly went mad trying to figure out the cause. I experimented endlessly to no avail. My problems were solved using the hum-x device purchased on eBay for about $50. It is grounded as well, so I had no qualms connecting my computer to it before plugging it into the wall. All the best.


 
  
 Were you experiencing hum problems, or intermittent static-y noise, and which on what devices?  This is the only problem I've got with any of my gear.  No hums (except one wonky tube in a pair).  I don't want to invest a lot in things I don't really need.  I'm reading about Stillpoint ERS tape and cloth, but not sure yet if those are worth the cost, much less where and how to apply them.


----------



## ThurstonX

cjs06 said:


> Thanks Mike for the insight on phono preamps and your Mani. I also didn't know badger spooge was a thing at one point lol. We've come so far.
> 
> To jexby, please don't become one of those evil villians whose sole drive is to exterminate all vinyl. I don't want it to die. Plus think about it this way, if civilization survives after a nuclear holocaust, the only music that will still be available (provided it doesn't melt in the initial blasts) is vinyl records and compact discs. Which format will be easier to play then?


 
  
 Fortunately vinyl isn't going away.  Yes, it's niche, but the niche is large enough to fund new and reissues.  The Bevis Frond (English psych) and Luna (NYC VU-cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) are doing or planning vinyl reissues, probably on 180g slabs.  And companies are still making TTs.  It's all good.  Post apocalypse, I'll be listening to my vinyl in a stolen Russian fighter jet, complete with tubes


----------



## jexby

cjs06 said:


> To jexby, please don't become one of those evil villians whose sole drive is to exterminate all vinyl. I don't want it to die. Plus think about it this way, if civilization survives after a nuclear holocaust, the only music that will still be available (provided it doesn't melt in the initial blasts) is vinyl records and compact discs. Which format will be easier to play then?


 
  
 I have no desire to raid anyone's basement collection of vinyl slabs and melt them down in a witch hunt.
 heck, my dad's 1950s Pacific Coast Jazz LPs are taking up space in my basement.
  
 and can appreciate ThurstonX trying a new solution so he can listen to old (format) tunes, and am glad no one is trying to proselytize vinyl over all.
 which begs the question, what am I arguing for?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 as stated, to each his own.
 but I am glad technology is marching on...
  
 edit:
 ps.  post magnetic pulse erasure of digitally stored music, I'd return to playing the 1000s of CDs in my basement.
 cd jukebok anyone?


----------



## adamaley

I had a constant buzz + RFI coming through my PC - Gungnir - BH Crack - HD-650. I tried everything; different outlets, moving the router, keeping cell phone away, different power strips etc. Using my laptop on battery got rid of the buzz, but not the RFI. I read on the BH Crack site about the Hum-X device and how it had cured a member's system's ills. If you do a search on there, or with my username, you can find the discourse. So I figured why not. To my relief it worked. Plugged into the Crack, there was still some noise, but plugged into the PC all dastardly interference and buzzing stopped. I removed it from my system after I got the Wyrd as a test, but the noise returned, so be wary about getting a Wyrd to remove this kind of noise.


thurstonx said:


> Were you experiencing hum problems, or intermittent static-y noise, and which on what devices?  This is the only problem I've got with any of my gear.  No hums (except one wonky tube in a pair).  I don't want to invest a lot in things I don't really need.  I'm reading about Stillpoint ERS tape and cloth, but not sure yet if those are worth the cost, much less where and how to apply them.


----------



## adamaley

Found the page: http://www.head-fi.org/t/457457/computer-usb-audio-ground-loop-noise/15
  
 There are other solutions put forth on that thread that you can try. A Radioshack cheater plug was mentioned, and that will definitely be cheaper. The reason I didn't go with that is because they are not grounded and the Hum-X is. You could try the Radio Shack version, and if it works, proceed from there based on how much peace of mind you have. Good luck.


----------



## ThurstonX

adamaley said:


> I had a constant buzz + RFI coming through my PC - Gungnir - BH Crack - HD-650. I tried everything; different outlets, moving the router, keeping cell phone away, different power strips etc. Using my laptop on battery got rid of the buzz, but not the RFI. I read on the BH Crack site about the Hum-X device and how it had cured a member's system's ills. If you do a search on there, or with my username, you can find the discourse. So I figured why not. To my relief it worked. Plugged into the Crack, there was still some noise, but plugged into the PC all dastardly interference and buzzing stopped. I removed it from my system after I got the Wyrd as a test, but the noise returned, so be wary about getting a Wyrd to remove this kind of noise.


 
  
 Thanks for clarifying.  I'll do some research into the Hum-X device.  Interesting about plugging the PC into it, esp. in re: to what Ed at phonopreamps.com said about PC PSUs being guilty of poor and/or cheap design.  Since I can test the phono chain with PCs off and unplugged, I'll do that eventually.  If the PC is guilty, I'll definitely consider the Hum-X.
  
 The only reason I'd need the PC running while using the TT would be to record to it.  And I'd only do that if I really wanted to digitize something so I can stick it on my iPod.  That is one reason I moved the TT: digitization was not practical where the TT used to live.
  
 My USB's pretty solid, and I have a Coax Out option on my M-Audio 192 card, so no Wyrd for me.


----------



## ThurstonX

adamaley said:


> Found the page: http://www.head-fi.org/t/457457/computer-usb-audio-ground-loop-noise/15
> 
> There are other solutions put forth on that thread that you can try. A Radioshack cheater plug was mentioned, and that will definitely be cheaper. The reason I didn't go with that is because they are not grounded and the Hum-X is. You could try the Radio Shack version, and if it works, proceed from there based on how much peace of mind you have. Good luck.


 
  
 Thanks again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I'll bore y'all later when more experimenting is done and my hair looks like this:


----------



## m50man

Any recommendations on a desktop amp/dac combo that would power my AKG 712 pro's more effectively than a FIIO E17?  Perhaps a Schiit unit?


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> Any recommendations on a desktop amp/dac combo that would power my AKG 712 pro's more effectively than a FIIO E17?  Perhaps a Schiit unit?


 
  
 What's your budget?


----------



## m50man

madwolfa said:


> What's your budget?


 
 $500 and under


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> $500 and under


 
  
 I would probably try to stretch it for Bifrost/Asgard 2 combo. They make a nice stack. That's what I have.
  
 If the budget is really tight, then Modi/Magni combo would be a solid choice in ~$200 range.


----------



## m50man

madwolfa said:


> I would probably try to stretch it for Bifrost/Asgard 2 combo. They make a nice stack. That's what I have.
> 
> If the budget is really tight, then Modi/Magni combo would be a solid choice in ~$200 range.


 
 Thanks.  Money isn't that big of an issue for me... I could probably go with Bifrost and Asgard 2 combo but I am going to do more research. Would there be a significant difference between using this combo versus my FIIO E17 on the AKG K712 pros?  
  
 One last question:  I intend to use my AKGs for gaming... could I hook up a Turtle Beach DSS with the Bifrost + Asgard 2 combo and use it on my PS4?


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> Thanks.  Money isn't that big of an issue for me... I could probably go with Bifrost and Asgard 2 combo but I am going to do more research. Would there be a significant difference between using this combo versus my FIIO E17 on the AKG K712 pros?
> 
> One last question:  I intend to use my AKGs for gaming... could I hook up a Turtle Beach DSS with the Bifrost + Asgard 2 combo and use it on my PS4?


 
  
 Well, it depends. Looking at the specs, AKGs don't look particularly hard to drive (high sensitivity, low impedance), so you might not hear a "night and day" difference.
  
 I'm not sure how DSS would fit into this. Having a digital input, it acts as a sort of a DAC by itself.... How are you using it now with a FIIO?


----------



## jexby

m50man said:


> Any recommendations on a desktop amp/dac combo that would power my AKG 712 pro's more effectively than a FIIO E17?  Perhaps a Schiit unit?


 
  
 I believe there have been some rave pairings about Vali and the Q701, which should translate to the AKG 712 loving the tubes also.
 and that a Wyrd can definitely improve the Modi.
  
 so another option:
 Wyrd-->Modi-->Vali
  
 i concur that the sonics of a BiFrost Uber with USB are superb, but the form factor (increased size) might be a bit of a waste if you'll never use the Coax or Optical SPDIF.


----------



## m50man

madwolfa said:


> Well, it depends. Looking at the specs, AKGs don't look particularly hard to drive (high sensitivity, low impedance), so you might not hear a "night and day" difference.
> 
> I'm not sure how DSS would fit into this. Having a digital input, it acts as a sort of a DAC by itself.... How are you using it now with a FIIO?


 
 I am actually not using it, currently I am only using the turtle beach DSS but I have heard from many posters it is better to use a DAC/amp as well.  So I really have no idea how I would go about using a DAC/Amp AND a DSS on my ps4.  If I can figure it out I want to go for the highest quality so a desktop amp + DAC I would assume will be better than my FIIO E17.


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> I am actually not using it, currently I am only using the turtle beach DSS but I have heard from many posters it is better to use a DAC/amp as well.  So I really have no idea how I would go about using a DAC/Amp AND a DSS on my ps4.  If I can figure it out I want to go for the highest quality so a desktop amp + DAC I would assume will be better than my FIIO E17.


 
  
 I would just use a DAC+Amp, without any additional gimmicks and let the PS4 do the surround processing for digital stereo output.


----------



## m50man

madwolfa said:


> I would just use a DAC+Amp, without any additional gimmicks and let the PS4 do the surround processing for digital stereo output.


 
 Correct me if I am wrong, but without the DSS processor, I am only going to be able to attain stereo output (Only L + R).  
  
 Surround sound is important to me.  I need to be able to hear directional cues (where are those footsteps coming from? Where were those bullets coming from?) in order to play better.
  
 If I forgo the DSS (which I already purchased) and just stick with a DAC + AMP (either the FIIO E17 or Schiit Asgard 2/Bifrost combo) then I would be missing out on the surround sound?


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but without the DSS processor, I am only going to be able to attain stereo output (Only L + R).


 
  
 I think PS4 would do a better job emulating surround with its stereo output.


----------



## m50man

madwolfa said:


> I think PS4 would do a better job emulating surround with its stereo output.


 
 This is definitely contrary to what I have heard on these forums. People have told me that attaining surround on headphones without a DSS or a mixamp is impossible on a PS4.  If anyone else knows the answer here I would like to hear their thoughts as well. 
  
 Nonetheless, I digress.  For all the Schiit guys... I am wondering if purchasing a Bifrost + Asgard 2 would be worth it for my AKG K712 pro's. Right now I am using a FIIO E17 which is okay I guess but I wonder if I can do better.  If I could use the Bifrost + Asgard 2 with my PS4 that would be an added bonus.


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> This is definitely contrary to what I have heard on these forums. People have told me that attaining surround on headphones without a DSS or a mixamp is impossible on a PS4.  If anyone else knows the answer here I would like to hear their thoughts as well.


 
  
 If this thing actually converts something like Dolby Digital 7.1 to Stereo 2.0 (ProLogic) - then it could make sense.
 If it's just some stereo to surround emulation - then no, positional cues wouldn't appear from nowhere...


----------



## m50man

I was under the impression that the DSS converts your stereo 2.0 sound into Dolby Digital surround sound (5.1 or 7.1) for your headphones. I am SOO confused now. Is there anyone out there with specific knowledge (first hand experience) of the DSS and a headphone amp/dac on a gaming console?  I have been struggling to find the answers I need.


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> I was under the impression that the DSS converts your stereo 2.0 sound into Dolby Digital surround sound (5.1 or 7.1) for your headphones.


 
  
 Reading the website, it seems that it converts a bistream digital input (DD 5.1/7.1) from a console to Dolby ProLogic (Stereo 2.0 surround simulation DSP via proprietary HRTF), decodes it to PCM and outputs analog stereo signal to the headphones. Anyway, I don't see any place for either Bifrost or Asgard 2 here.


----------



## m50man

madwolfa said:


> Reading the website, it seems that it converts a bistream digital output (DD 5.1/7.1) to Dolby ProLogic (Stereo 2.0 surround simulation DSP through a Dolby proprietary HRTF), decodes it to PCM and outputs analog stereo signal to the headphones. Anyway, I don't see any place for either Bifrost or Asgard 2 here.


 
 Thanks for the explanation. But if there is a "place" for my FIIO E17 in this setup (with the DSS + headphones, using a PS4), then I would have to assume it would be possible to run this same setup with a Bifrost and Asgard 2 instead of the FIIO E17.  My assumption could be wrong however


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> Thanks for the explanation. But if there is a "place" for my FIIO E17 in this setup (with the DSS + headphones, using a PS4), then I would have to assume it would be possible to run this same setup with a Bifrost and Asgard 2 instead of the FIIO E17.  My assumption could be wrong however


 
  
 Bifrost only accepts PCM input, period. As does FIIO. So using either of them as DAC together with DSS is out of question.
 Then you could use FIIO or Asgard 2 for amplifying only, but DSS doesn't have any proper line outputs to hook the amps to.


----------



## superjawes

m50man said:


> I was under the impression that the DSS converts your stereo 2.0 sound into Dolby Digital surround sound (5.1 or 7.1) for your headphones....


I don't have experience with this, and I can tell you that it's wrong. If you're starting with 2 channels, then you're already past the point at which surround sound processing would help you.

What you really want is for 4+ channels to be generated at a source so you have the information, and then you mix that together so it works for two speakers mounted to your ears instead of 4+ speakers mounted at a distance from you.

You want nothing but stereo on the output (L+R) because you only have the two transducers in your headphones, but the mixing/sound processing will give those two channels a 3D effect.

As I said, I don't have experience with this. You might want to check out Mad Lust Envy's guide. The guys in that thread seem to know how these bits work (certainly better than I do). What I can tell you is that all a Bifrost does is convert two digital channels into two analog ones, and what you want/need is the sound processing to convert what would have been 5.1/7.1 for speakers into something stereo for headphones.


----------



## madwolfa

^^^ What he said.


----------



## m50man

superjawes said:


> I don't have experience with this, and I can tell you that it's wrong. If you're starting with 2 channels, then you're already past the point at which surround sound processing would help you.
> 
> What you really want is for 4+ channels to be generated at a source so you have the information, and then you mix that together so it works for two speakers mounted to your ears instead of 4+ speakers mounted at a distance from you.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks your post makes sense.  I have posted many times in that thread you mentioned but am unable to find answers.  Are people just using a DSS and no DAC/AMP, or are they just using a DAC/AMP and no DSS?  Very confusing.
  
 One guy just said: your best setup will be a DSS + a DAC/AMP (in my case the E17) + the phones + your ps4.  This is the exact stuff that I have but I have found so many conflicting opinions on this that I am about to pull my hair out lol.  One guy says: Just use your dac/amp and forget the DSS, the PS4 will produce better simulated surround than the DSS anyways. Next guy says sorry that's impossible to get surround and positional cues WITHOUT a DSS as you are just getting L+R.  Other guy says: Use both.  Other guy says: Just use the DSS, it acts as a DAC and amp as well.
  
 Lord have mercy


----------



## madwolfa

m50man said:


> Are people just using a DSS and no DAC/AMP, or are they just using a DAC/AMP and no DSS?


 
  
 Pretty much.


----------



## Billheiser

There is a fourth option, though, that will enable you to use the excellent Schiit gear, and the DSS, to get top flight sound, including surround. I'll try to explain this quickly before my battery di


----------



## m50man

billheiser said:


> There is a fourth option, though, that will enable you to use the excellent Schiit gear, and the DSS, to get top flight sound, including surround. I'll try to explain this quickly before my battery di


 
 This would absolutely be music to my ears


----------



## BeatsWork

billheiser said:


> There is a fourth option, though, that will enable you to use the excellent Schiit gear, and the DSS, to get top flight sound, including surround. I'll try to explain this quickly before my battery di





m50man said:


> This would absolutely be music to my ears


 
  
 That's just cruel.  Waiting to see if Bill comes back or m50 has just been owned


----------



## m50man

beatswork said:


> That's just cruel.  Waiting to see if Bill comes back or m50 has just been owned


 
 wow... that's super annoying. Great luck on these forums so far.....


----------



## Billheiser

beatswork said:


> That's just cruel.  Waiting to see if Bill comes back or m50 has just been owned




Hook, line, & sinker. Sorry!


----------



## superjawes

Okay, I looked up what you're looking at, and I'll try to answer. However, keep in mind that I am not claiming to be an expert, and this is really just a guess based on my current knowledge.

I see this guy (DSS1). If you take the RCA signals that would go to the TV, you're only pulling stereo, so the DSS wouldn't be improving on what is already coming out of your Xbox or Playstation. Any surround sound effect will have already been processed by the system, and the DSS would only be amplifying that signal for your headphones (it might add crosstalk to analog signals, but I'm not sure if that counts as "surround" sound).

So in order to really do surround processing, I think you need the optical input. I think what the DSS1 does is take a 5.1 or 7.1 digital signal from an optical out on your device and converts it to 2.0 analog (again, this is mixing DOWN to the number of channels you need). However, note that this does not have optical out, so there would be no point in adding a DAC to this setup.

Now I also found the DSS2. THIS model has a USB out, which _MAY_ output a signal that you could use with a standalone DAC. _BUT_ I have no idea if this output is compatible with Schiit Audio products, and it may only be used to provide power to headphones, meaning "USB Out" only means "power out".

In any of these cases, you can use an Asgard 2 to provide power from your headphones. Just be sure to check the levels, as you would be dual amping.

Check one thing, though. If the PS4 has a setting for headphones, you could turn that on and connect a standalone DAC to your PS4's optical output. Regardless of the equipment you use, the sound location has to come from the PS4 originally, as the game will determine the source of the sounds in virtual space. Without that, you don't actually have surround sound.


----------



## m50man

superjawes said:


> Okay, I looked up what you're looking at, and I'll try to answer. However, keep in mind that I am not claiming to be an expert, and this is really just a guess based on my current knowledge.
> 
> I see this guy (DSS1). If you take the RCA signals that would go to the TV, you're only pulling stereo, so the DSS wouldn't be improving on what is already coming out of your Xbox or Playstation. Any surround sound effect will have already been processed by the system, and the DSS would only be amplifying that signal for your headphones (it might add crosstalk to analog signals, but I'm not sure if that counts as "surround" sound).
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the genuine attempt at helping me. Feels good to have people actually try and help a brother out instead of messing around, as I am pretty frustrated ATM and that's why I came here - for the knowledgable folk.  So from what you are saying (keeping in mind that is your best guess) it seems like using a DSS1 and a DAC/amp on top of that is pretty much impossible (since there is no optical out from the dss1 to be plugged into the dac/amp).  
  
 Going forward then, I would have to research the DSS2 to see if that would suit my needs better (as I MIGHT be able to plug the DSS2 into a DAC/amp (possibly the Asgard2/Bifrost or just the FIIO E17 I already have).


----------



## superjawes

Yeah. In order to use a standalone DAC, you *MUST* have a digital output. If neither DSS provides this, then you wouldn't be able to connect a DAC (well you could connect via USB...but you wouldn't get game sound out  ).


----------



## madwolfa

superjawes said:


> Yeah. In order to use a standalone DAC, you *MUST* have a digital output. If neither DSS provides this, then you wouldn't be able to connect a DAC (well you could connect via USB...but you wouldn't get game sound out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think that USB on DSS is just a regular USB (for powering headsets, etc), no audio output on that.


----------



## m50man

superjawes said:


> Yeah. In order to use a standalone DAC, you *MUST* have a digital output. If neither DSS provides this, then you wouldn't be able to connect a DAC (well you could connect via USB...but you wouldn't get game sound out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks.  I did notice that the DSS has a USB out though so I wonder if theoretically I could plug my FIIO E17 right into the DSS through that USB port .... and then the headphones right into the FIIO.
  
 Edit: I see madwolfa just commented on this.  Dang it haha


----------



## MichaelPemulis

I have a setup question for you fellas -
  
 I just got a schiit vali.  
  
 It works perfectly for my Rega RP 6 > Brio > tape out > schiit, and also for my hd music > rega dac > brio > tape out > schiit but i don't get any sound when I change to TV > Brio > tape out > schiit.
  
 TV is connected with component cables to the Brio.  I double checked to make sure everything was connected and secure.
  
 what gives?


----------



## BeatsWork

The TB DSS description is really throwing me.  Unless you have a true surround sound headset with multiple drivers any signal fed to a 2 driver headset has to by definition be simulated right?  I've played with various VST plugins to take a true 5.1 encoded track and output to conventional 2 driver headphones and the results to my ear where more annoying than enhancing.  That's just my ears and maybe the positional cues are there when using with PS3 optical out to DSS to conventional headphone but is seems more accurate to say that the DSS can take Dolby signal via optical and use algorythms to simulate surround sound with conventional 2 driver headsets by adding echo/delay etc.  So the question is if you take the line out from DSS in to an amp are these DSP added positional cues lost?


----------



## Tuco1965

michaelpemulis said:


> I have a setup question for you fellas -
> 
> I just got a schiit vali.
> 
> ...


 
 Component is video.  How is the audio connected from TV to Brio?  If digital then there is your problem.  You need analog audio in for it to pass to the tape out.


----------



## MichaelPemulis

sorry, i think of those cables as component cables, not sure if that is the right word. 
  
 tv > blue jeans cables LC-1 > brio


----------



## money4me247

m50man said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but without the DSS processor, I am only going to be able to attain stereo output (Only L + R).
> 
> Surround sound is important to me.  I need to be able to hear directional cues (where are those footsteps coming from? Where were those bullets coming from?) in order to play better.
> 
> If I forgo the DSS (which I already purchased) and just stick with a DAC + AMP (either the FIIO E17 or Schiit Asgard 2/Bifrost combo) then I would be missing out on the surround sound?


 
  
 Headphones only have two channels. You cannot really get "true 7.1 or 5.1 surround sound" with two channels. The 7.1 stands for 7 speakers + 1 subwoofer for a total of 8 channels. 5.1 stands for 5 speakers and 1 subwoofer for a total of 6 speakers. With true surround sound, you need different channels at different specific positions in your room to replicate truly accurate positioning cues. 
  
 Regardless if the stereo sound is being converted into dolby digital surround sound 5.1/7.1, your headphones only have two channels to output. Any surround sound effects will simply a software simulation. DSP processing takes surround information and creates a new audio signal attempting to reproduce positional cues with two drivers. This process can degrade sound quality. Seems more like a gimmick. A pair of headphones with decent sound stage will be sufficient for positional cues in competitive FPS gaming needs.
  
 If you are using your headphones for primarily for gaming & are more interested in "surround sound experience," just get something like the Astro Mixamp or Turtlebeach Earforce DSS or Creative Recon3D or X-Fi. End of story. No need for anything else.
  
 A DAC ontop of a DSS sound processor is unnecessary as the DSS component already processes the sound. Every sound processing component inherently introduces a bit of their own coloration, so increasing the amount of sound processing components in your chain will not result in better sound quality. No need to double DAC or DAC+DSS sound processor.
  
 You will not need an amplifier unless your headphones have an impedance greater than 100 ohms. An amplifier will have no impact on the sound quality as its function is to simply amplify the existing signal.
  
 Basically, you shouldn't buy anything else no matter what anyone here tells you if your goal is surround sound. You can get by with either stereo sound on headphones with a good sound stage or good sound stage headphones + DSS sound processor. Amplifier if your headphone's have a high impedance.


----------



## Tuco1965

michaelpemulis said:


> sorry, i think of those cables as component cables, not sure if that is the right word.
> 
> tv > blue jeans cables LC-1 > brio


 
 Those are coming out of the analog audio output on the tv?


----------



## MichaelPemulis

tuco1965 said:


> Those are coming out of the analog audio output on the tv?


 
 Yep.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm at a loss.  If there is an analog signal coming through, then it should work just like any other source.  Have you tried swapping source inputs around?  Try the TV source on one of the working inputs.


----------



## Byrnie

money4me247 said:


> Regardless if the stereo sound is being converted into dolby digital surround sound 5.1/7.1, your headphones only have two channels to output. Any surround sound effects will simply a software simulation. DSP processing takes surround information and creates a new audio signal attempting to reproduce positional cues with two drivers. This process can degrade sound quality. Seems more like a gimmick. A pair of headphones with decent sound stage will be sufficient for positional cues in competitive FPS gaming needs.
> 
> If you are using your headphones for primarily for gaming & are more interested in "surround sound experience," just get something like the Astro Mixamp or Turtlebeach Earforce DSS or Creative Recon3D or X-Fi. End of story. No need for anything else.
> 
> ...


 
 I can attest to this as well given my own experience in the competitive FPSs.  I will say that regardless of your headphone impedance an amp will help bring out more ambient sounds in your game (that's if the game has good sound).  An amp isn't necessary though and a good set of cans will make the most difference in detail retrieval.


----------



## m50man

That was a really informative post thank you. 
  
 So I am good with what I got.  My AKG K712 pros have a "rated impedence" of 65 ohms so I am good to use it without an amp for gaming.  It definitely needs a good amp for listening to music though.  I've got the FIIO E17 and I am not that happy with it so I am looking to upgrade to perhaps a desktop setup or a better portable like the cd5 or the island (for listening purposes).  If you guys have any info on that I would like to hear that as well


----------



## MichaelPemulis

Solved the problem, something was up with one of the inputs on the brio, all set now.  thanks!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

[quote name="Baldr" url="/t/601151/

They usually featured “proprietary ingredients” such as WD-40 or badger spooge to transform the listening experience.)
[/quote]

Mike, they may have been grifters and snake oil salesman, but collecting Badger sponge is definitely a manly, man's, Manly man's job !


----------



## swspiers

wildcatsare1 said:


> [quote name="Baldr" url="/t/601151/
> 
> They usually featured “proprietary ingredients” such as WD-40 or badger spooge to transform the listening experience.)




Mike, they may have been grifters and snake oil salesman, but collecting Badger sponge is definitely a manly, man's, Manly man's job ![/quote]

And you da man!


----------



## Tuco1965

michaelpemulis said:


> Solved the problem, something was up with one of the inputs on the brio, all set now.  thanks!




Ah so it was an input issue, Glad you sorted it out.


----------



## jaywillin

swspiers said:


> Mike, they may have been grifters and snake oil salesman, but collecting Badger sponge is definitely a manly, man's, Manly man's job !


 
 And you da man! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/quote]

 we'll go to any length !


----------



## loki993

Ok first off I think I'm going to hold off on the Asgard2...A Magni should be able to power anything I'm going to throw at it in the next few years...plus it will be a good work setup when I want to upgrade again. Here is the real questions though what I'm really looking at is the Vali. This thing has really intrigued me and everyone that hears it seems to love it. But I have some questions
  
 First will it pair with my DT770 80s? These have big bass and Ive been told that with a tube amp it may get a bit bloated and out of control. That leads to my next question
  
 How is the bass on the Vali? Extension, amount etc. 
  
 Third and finally if I did get the Vali is the Magni enough of a difference that it would be worth picking up as well? 
  
 Im wondering at this point that maybe the next logical step up from the Magni isnt the Asgard but actually the Lyr.....


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> [quote name="Baldr" url="/t/601151/
> 
> They usually featured “proprietary ingredients” such as WD-40 or badger spooge to transform the listening experience.)


 
 Mike, they may have been grifters and snake oil salesman, but collecting Badger sponge is definitely a manly, man's, Manly man's job ![/quote]

  
 You have fun with that, Mike Rowe.  Always nice when the "celebrities" drop by


----------



## Tuco1965

LMAO


----------



## ThurstonX

Turntable problem solved.  Wish I could have used the Mani, and I definitely encourage people to buy and try, as it's great for its price.  All signs point to the wall wart, since the new one is interference-free.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Turntable problem solved.  Wish I could have used the Mani, and I definitely encourage people to buy and try, as it's great for its price.  All signs point to the wall wart, since the new one is interference-free.


 
 Dang, I missed all the excitement, If you returned the Mani which new wall wart are you referring to?


----------



## tonykaz

"Vinyl Nerds" , "Noisy connections" , "Audio Grifters" , "Grounding" , phew ! 
  
 Well it's quite a contraversy you're bringing back from the Grave , all these things we oldsters coped with over the years of Vinyl ( may it rest in Peace and Garage Sale $1.00 ea. Bins ) .   
   It kinda is your fault Mr.Baldr , you lads had to go and produce a cheap RIAA Amp box , join the Vinyl resurgence , stand with Art Dudley at the Alter of True Believers , get further Press coverage for making a REALLY nice Stocking Stuffer to make Roy Hall's Starter Set Turntable into a working "High-End" Audiophile hook-up .  
   Except nowadays the believers can reach you lads for advice ( you could never get into touch will Bill Johnson at ARC or most of the other Electronic Designers ) .  I suppose you're trying to head them off with the above posting but I don't think it's anywhere enough hand holding , there is way more grief coming your way if you persist in this Vinyl venture of yours .  But you know this , don't you ? , you made vinyl stuff so you know all the way around this issue , good luck but I think you've opened a can of worms .  Calling your customers : "Vinyl Nerds" isn't a good start . 
   "Noisy Connections" ,   Now there's one , for sure !!   I took a number of head shell leads and RCA phono interconnects back to my lab and put them on my Thermocouple Potentiometer , oh-my , those things give off voltage , from dissimular metal contacting , very small potentials , certainly but audible .   The techs still have Cramolin which works , not perfect but it does work , kinda .  Better than nothing .  At the very low voltages of Moving Coil Phono Carts ( the Ortofon in particular ) contact voltage is audible , the good news is that Tubes do a good job of masking contact noise with their own noise and graininess , not a perfect world , what else can be done ?  
   What else can be done opens the door to the "Audio Grifters" , what else you ask ? , plenty :  Tip-toes , Sorbothane , interconnects with directional arrows on them ( one way only please ) , vacuum platters , litz wires , gold plating , Alum. head shell screws ( 3 in a triangular mounting ) , Variable voltage Power transformers , star grounding , better pre-amps ( of course , this is what Stereophile helps with ) , and on and on and on , all the way in time till digital comes along and ends the madness !  Which takes us to today .  
   Now we have our iMac being the Turntable ( playing iTunes lossless ) , our DAC ( preferably a Schiit DAC ) becomes our Phono Cartridge transducer ( not at all quirky or finicky ) transforming all those bits into beautiful music that we can take to a Park Bench if we want or run thru a nice little musical Amp like the Asgard 2 into headphones or GENELEC Studio Monitors and Viola , we have a near perfect musical world , at last !  We finally made it , phew , it took me from the early 1950s and the first 33 Mono Vinyl till a couple of years ago to get this far . I'll tell you right now , I'm not going back !  Not for Nobody nor any money , no-how !!  
   I've admired you lads at Schiit , building the price accessible stuff like you do , supporting a new crop of music lovers , avoiding the Dealer / Sales Rep. marketing , delivering "reliable" non-quirky componants .  I'm not alone in this , I see your stuff in all the Headphone Club coverages and I email fellow Schiit owners from all over the World , I see you as rising up to the Boothroyd Stewart , Igor Levin , dcs and even MSB level .
  Then , out of the blue , you dilute your efforts with Vinyl doings - was dieses ist ?  
   A vinyl pre and a microphonic amp , I hope this trend ends , I have such hopes for you .  
  
  I remain a Schiit Man , maybe not loyal to the end but a Schiit Man ,
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## gefski

loki993 said:


> Ok first off I think I'm going to hold off on the Asgard2...A Magni should be able to power anything I'm going to throw at it in the next few years...plus it will be a good work setup when I want to upgrade again. Here is the real questions though what I'm really looking at is the Vali. This thing has really intrigued me and everyone that hears it seems to love it. But I have some questions
> 
> First will it pair with my DT770 80s? These have big bass and Ive been told that with a tube amp it may get a bit bloated and out of control. That leads to my next question
> 
> ...




None of the Schiit amps are "fat" on the bottom end. Not even the Valhalla, the only all-tube amp they sell. Great amp, sold mine to get a modified Woo, which is 17.773% better. 

The Asgard/Valhalla/Lyr series is a definite step up from the $100ish amps.. Read their descriptions; they are one of the best companies about straightforward reasons to buy one amp over another. They WILL NOT try to move everyone to their most expensive amp.


----------



## eee1111

its november!!!!
  
  
 i just gotta wait almost 3 weeks for the valhalla 2 + bifrost combo i ordered
  
 its getting closer but still oh so far away


----------



## Themorganlett85

eee1111 said:


> its november!!!!
> 
> 
> i just gotta wait almost 3 weeks for the valhalla 2 + bifrost combo i ordered
> ...


 
 It will be worth it, I absolutely LOVE mine.


----------



## commtrd

Waiting for Ragnarok.


----------



## Audiotic

Can I join? Just ordered a (Euro-version) Lyr2 to complement my HD800's.


----------



## Amlalsulami

audiotic said:


> Can I join? Just ordered a (Euro-version) Lyr2 to complement my HD800's.


 
 The Valhalla 2 is the best for HD800


----------



## StanD

amlalsulami said:


> The Valhalla 2 is the best for HD800


 
 That depends on the individual's preference and future needs.


----------



## Audiotic

amlalsulami said:


> The Valhalla 2 is the best for HD800



Sure? I read that the Lyr2 was a notch above that. And when tubed like the Valhalka, 2 notches. Or do I read wrongly? I guess it's personal? Let's do the test!


----------



## StanD

audiotic said:


> Sure? I read that the Lyr2 was a notch above that. And when tubed like the Valhalka, 2 notches. Or do I read wrongly? I guess it's personal? Let's do the test!


 
 Is your wallet feeling rambunctious?


----------



## eee1111

is the overall opinion that the bifrost + Valhalla 2 would be best for HD600s?
  
  
 what about the lyr2?
  
 the lyr 2 would power more powerful cans that the valhalla 2 cant....if i wanted to buy better ones later on
  
 but the sound would be worse on HD600s?


----------



## StanD

eee1111 said:


> is the overall opinion that the bifrost + Valhalla 2 would be best for HD600s?
> 
> 
> what about the lyr2?
> ...


 
 I have a Bifrost Uber and Asgard 2 hooked up to my HD600 and it's absolutely fantastic. I like a clean SS sound.


----------



## Billheiser

eee1111 said:


> is the overall opinion that the bifrost + Valhalla 2 would be best for HD600s?
> 
> what about the lyr2?
> 
> ...



Opinion which verges on absolute fact: all 3 work superbly for hd600. Exceptions to this rule: none.


----------



## superjawes

Subjectively: Sennheiser HD600/650/800 owners tend to prefer tubey amps, which--I suspect--is why many would say that Valhalla is better than Lyr.

Objectively: Valhalla 2 actually has higher output power @300 Ohms compared to Lyr. (660 mW on Lyr; 800 mW on Valhalla).

Lyr is certainly more versatile, though. 660 mW at 300 Ohms isn't bad, and you can get a maximum of 6 Watts (at 32 Ohms).


----------



## Billheiser

superjawes said:


> Subjectively: Sennheiser HD600/650/800 owners tend to prefer tubey amps, which--I suspect--is why many would say that Valhalla is better than Lyr.
> 
> Objectively: Valhalla 2 actually has higher output power @300 Ohms compared to Lyr. (660 mW on Lyr; 800 mW on Valhalla).
> 
> Lyr is certainly more versatile, though. 660 mW at 300 Ohms isn't bad, and you can get a maximum of 6 Watts (at 32 Ohms).


 

 No argument there.  I use the Valhalla 2 and love it.  Lyr and Asgard sounded great when I heard them.  If I was going to have more headphones of unknown types and power demands in the future, Lyr 2 would be best bet.


----------



## Rossliew

billheiser said:


> Opinion which verges on absolute fact: all 3 work superbly for hd600. Exceptions to this rule: none.


 
 Even the Magni and Vali work wonderfully with the HD600. There is that tinge of lushness and more 3D-like imaging with the Vali but the bass via Magni hits harder. All Schiit sounds good with the Senns


----------



## madwolfa

amalz said:


> [COLOR=000000]Do recommend me_ _[/COLOR]_[COLOR=FF0000]LYR 2[/COLOR]_[COLOR=000000]with my headphone LCD-2 F,HE-500,HD800?[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=000000]Because i heard the[/COLOR] _[COLOR=FF0000]Valhalla 2[/COLOR]_ [COLOR=000000]is the best for HD800, And the[/COLOR] _[COLOR=FF0000]Lyr 2[/COLOR]_ [COLOR=000000]is the best for LCD-2 and HE-500 ( Planar Headphone )[/COLOR]
> 
> What you think guy's buy Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2?




With your cans - Lyr 2.


----------



## reddog

commtrd said:


> Waiting for Ragnarok.



+1 Yes the Ragnarok is the amp I am saving for. I hope to order it after this month, then play the wait game. Hope your Ragnarok puts a big old smile on your face, as it's powers your favorite set of cans.


----------



## reddog

madwolfa said:


> With your cans - Lyr 2.



+1 get a lyr 2.


----------



## loki993

Juts got my Mani yesterday....I still need to get the turntable set up so It may be a little bit before I can give impressions. However this is the first time hearing a proper record player in probably 20 years so I dont really have a frame of reference for comparison, but Ill sure be able to tell you if it sounds good or not.


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> Juts got my Mani yesterday....I still need to get the turntable set up so It may be a little bit before I can give impressions. However this is the first time hearing a proper record player in probably 20 years so I dont really have a frame of reference for comparison, but Ill sure be able to tell you if it sounds good or not.


 
 I hope it sounds like good Schiit.


----------



## Audiotic

I am FLABBERGASTED! I just received the beautiful Lyr2, added to my set (on the the rec-out's of my pre-amp), and compared.
  
 1. HD800 on the pre
 2. HD800 directly on the NA11S1 streamer's headphone out
 3. Via the Lyr (so actually quite a signal path: NA11S1 -> AV8801 -> Lyr2)
  
 1. This is the worst, by far. I think the pre can't handle the high ohms of the headphones. It's a pretty bleak picture painted here. Can't go loud either.
 2. Much improved, a better headphone amp? Quite listenable!
 3. W O W ! More air, better positioning, much rounder bass. It now seems the other 2 are "congested", and via the Lyr2 I have actual super duper headphones. Worlds apart.


----------



## Tuco1965

That Lyr's on stilts!


----------



## Billheiser

Who pronounces it "Lear" and who for "liar/lyre"? Just curious. 

(Personally, I pronounce mine "Valhalla 2")


----------



## jexby

billheiser said:


> Who pronounces it "Lear" and who for "liar/lyre"? Just curious.


 
  
 Lear.
  
 FWIW, Jason didn't yell at me during RMAF when I pronounced it that way.


----------



## Billheiser

Lear makes sense. Lyrics, lyrical, etc. but I love the band the Lyres (not that one, the OTHER band called the Lyres!) and my brain can't help but reading it that way.


----------



## Delirious Lab

Some might want to pronounce it "Lure" (with a French "u"), for a seemingly Norse sounding name...
  
 As in, "I like the allure of a Lyr."


----------



## Billheiser

delirious lab said:


> Some might want to pronounce it "Lure" (with a French "u"), for a seemingly Norse sounding name...
> 
> As in, "I like the allure of a Lyr."


Then you could put it on your ures to listen and hure music!


----------



## ThurstonX

So, where do you live in the realms of Norse mythology?
  
 http://www.akasha.demon.co.uk/land.htm
  
 Chart your path.  I always say "leer," cuz I'm a dirty old man


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

audiotic said:


>


 
  
  
 why


----------



## dpaton

Why not?
  
 Personally, I prefer BDR cones to metallic (both brass and steel).


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

dpaton said:


> Why not?


----------



## money4me247

tuco1965 said:


> That Lyr's on stilts!


 
 the stilts actually help with creating better sound stage and increasing the airness of the treble


----------



## dpaton

It's a no cost tweek to try yourself, get wine corks, thread spools, shot glasses, dice, whatever and listen for all the usual: timbre, decay, space, ...
  
 Have fun!


----------



## Audiotic

These cones I still had - so were the first choice  'nuf money spent this month!


----------



## StanD

audiotic said:


> I am FLABBERGASTED! I just received the beautiful Lyr2, added to my set (on the the rec-out's of my pre-amp), and compared.
> 
> 1. HD800 on the pre
> 2. HD800 directly on the NA11S1 streamer's headphone out
> ...


 
 The pre out is not designed for driving headphones, so why compare?


----------



## Audiotic

Uhmm - yes the pre has a headphone out. That's what I used. Sorry I was unclear!


----------



## john57

I think that he is talking about the  Marantz  pre-amp AV8801 headphone output does not drive the HD800 well.


----------



## StanD

audiotic said:


> Uhmm - yes the pre has a headphone out. That's what I used. Sorry I was unclear!


 
  
  


john57 said:


> I think that he is talking about the  Marantz  pre-amp AV8801 headphone output does not drive the HD800 well.


 
 These two posts clear that up. I'm surprised that Marantz would drop the ball on a headphone out. Then again the HD800 has higher voltage requirements than mainstream headphones. But Marantz


----------



## MattTCG

Can anyone else confirm good results between the Lyr 2 and hd800?


----------



## Audiotic

Marantz does a good job don't get me wrong. And the NA11S1 is better, by a big step,. As expected. But I hadn't anticipated the extra that the Lyr2 brought! Someone (other forum) claims that that is the "magic" of tubes...


----------



## StanD

audiotic said:


> Marantz does a good job don't get me wrong. And the NA11S1 is better, by a big step,. As expected. But I hadn't anticipated the extra that the Lyr2 brought! Someone (other forum) claims that that is the "magic" of tubes...


 
 The Lyr2 is a hybrid, It just might be the magic of a good headphone amp, not just tubes, depending on tastes.


----------



## gefski

stand said:


> The Lyr2 is a hybrid, It just might be the magic of a good headphone amp, not just tubes, depending on tastes.




Exactly. There are thousands of AVR, integrated amps, even disc players that have a headphone jack. But it's usually barely more than an afterthought with little cost or effort invested, because the product has a hundred other features and jobs to do. 

A quality headphone amp (or dac, phonostage, etc) is designed to do one task extremely well at its price point.


----------



## Billheiser

gefski said:


> Exactly. There are thousands of AVR, integrated amps, even disc players that have a headphone jack. But it's usually barely more than an afterthought with little cost or effort invested, because the product has a hundred other features and jobs to do.
> 
> A quality headphone amp (or dac, phonostage, etc) is designed to do one task extremely well at its price point.


 

 Agree.  But I have to mention an exception.  I recently replaced a CD player, bought a solid yet inexpensive Onkyo c7030 that I use as a transport with digital out to my Bifrost.  I gave its headphone-out jack a try, and was pleasantly surprised - sounded better than I had expected.  Naturally I've gone back to the "main" rig, but nice job Onkyo.


----------



## BeatsWork

audiotic said:


> These cones I still had - so were the first choice  'nuf money spent this month!


 
 On a practical note this is a wise idea especially if you have amp stacked on DAC. Adding risers to my Mjolnir/Gunghir a.k.a. Grilled cheese maker - made a huge difference in case temp. I assume from added airflow ...


----------



## john57

That is quite common for mainstream manufactures to put in a dinky op-amp to drive the headphone output. This also happens alot with receivers.  Some models like my Onkyo stereo network receiver does uses the speaker outputs to a load resistor for the headphone output jack. But that depends on the model in question. Sometimes it is not easy to tell how the headphone output are being driven. I think that in time manufactures will pay more attention to the headphone output.


----------



## TsukiNick

Would of bought a Valhalla if not for the backorder. Waiting patiently for my little dot mkiii to come.


----------



## ThurstonX

*Stack o' Schiit Reimagined*


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> *Stack o' Schiit Reimagined*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Now that's a pile of Schiit.


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> Now that's a pile of Schiit.


 

 What is that POS clinging to top shelf? All my pieces of Schiit are light colored and that looks alarmingly dark.


----------



## ThurstonX

beatswork said:


> What is that POS clinging to top shelf? All my pieces of Schiit are light colored and that looks alarmingly dark.


 
  
 Emotiva XPS-1.  The jacks are on the ends (weird), which caused the cables to pinch.  Since it's plug-n-play, it's now out of sight, out of mind.  From my normal sitting position, I can't even see it hanging down through the opening.  Woulda shoulda coulda been a Mani


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Emotiva XPS-1.  The jacks are on the ends (weird), which caused the cables to pinch.  Since it's plug-n-play, it's now out of sight, out of mind.  From my normal sitting position, I can't even see it hanging down through the opening.  Woulda shoulda coulda been a Mani


 
 In other words, your Schiit is impure.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> In other words, your Schiit is impure.


 
  
 It's been sullied.  It's some *dirty Schiit *


----------



## derbigpr

gefski said:


> Exactly. There are thousands of AVR, integrated amps, even disc players that have a headphone jack. *But it's usually barely more than an afterthought with little cost or effort invested, because the product has a hundred other features and jobs to do.*
> 
> A quality headphone amp (or dac, phonostage, etc) is designed to do one task extremely well at its price point.


 
  
 That's a nice theory that a lot of people think is true, but it's actually not. Last year I had a little "quest" during which I tested integrated amps, receivers and all kinds of devices (even my used-to-be-high-end Panasonic plasma TV) to see what kind of headphone outputs they have.  As a rule, all integrated amps have great headphone outputs. Even the cheap entry level amps from Marantz, Denon, NAD, Cambridge Audio, etc. have excellent headphone outputs with MORE power than any dedicated head amp I've ever tried, are absolutely dead silent in terms of background noise, they sound very spacious (big soundstage and great imaging due to excellent channel separation), they have great channel balance and are very detailed and clear sounding in general. Most of them sound excellent, and there's no hint of muddiness, lack of detail, boomy bass, lack of power, or any other problems that people imagine would be present. Pretty much, they are better than any entry level headphone amps.  I have a Onkyo A-5VL integrated amp, which is pretty much one of the cheapest amps they make, but it sounds 95% as good as my Musical Fidelity M1HPAP ($1000) or Schiit Asgard 2.  In fact, with high impedance headphones such as T1's, HD650's or DT880/990 that I have, with some music it might even sound as good or better.
  
 People usually imagine headphone outputs on amps as an afterthought...but it's not really an afterthought. It's not like the put in a cheap 10 dollar op-amp based headphone amp circuit inside.  Headphone output actually sounds the same as a speaker output, it feeds from the same source so to speak. Yes, output impedances are high, around 120 ohms I think is the standard...but again, from my experience of comparing low impedance headphone out of integrated amps with high output impedance to how they sound out of ~1 ohm output impedance headamps, the differences are marginal. For example...with K701's, high output impedance even helps them a bit, because it gives them a tiny bit more bass presence, without losing control or tightness too much. And with high impedance cans, differences are almost inaudible.  We're talking about 1-2 db changes in the lows.
  
 In my experience of testing probably 50 integrated amps and receivers, I haven't come across a single one that sounded anything other than good enough, and again, most sounded excellent. The really cheap receivers, like entry level Yamahas or Denons, sounded worse than integrated amps, but again, not bad at all, just not quite as good.
  
 I would say, if you have high impedance headphones, even high end ones, and you have a integrated amplifier already (especially if it's a higher end model), you really won't benefit much from a headamp unless you really go for the high end stuff or tube amps that will obviously sound different.


----------



## derbigpr

john57 said:


> That is *quite common for mainstream manufactures to put in a dinky op-amp to drive the headphone output*. This also happens alot with receivers.  Some models like my Onkyo stereo network receiver does uses the speaker outputs to a load resistor for the headphone output jack. But that depends on the model in question. Sometimes it is not easy to tell how the headphone output are being driven. I think that in time manufactures will pay more attention to the headphone output.


 
  
  
 Almost nobody does that.  It's a misconception. I know there was also a thread on head-fi with some guy who was sending emails to loads of manufacturers asking them about how they make headphone outputs, and pretty much everyone uses speaker outputs with resistors. The only amps that use separate headphone circuits are high end amps that actually use high end headphone amp sections that sound better than just using speaker outputs.  High end Marantz amps for example do it that way. 
  
 "I think that in time manufactures will pay more attention to the headphone output."  It's the consumers who have to pay more attention to headphone outputs on integrated amps, not manufacturers. Manufacturers already do, but people largely believe that headphone outputs on integrated amps are bad...which is 99% of cases simply not true, in fact, it's QUITE the opposite.


----------



## john57

Sorry I will stand by my statement. My experience and reading circuit diagrams says otherwise. The Onkyo A-5VL a modern Integrated Stereo Amplifier still uses a op-amp to drive the headphone output.  Not all that bad but returned it for other reasons. If what you is true that I must be having bad luck for a very long time.


----------



## StanD

derbigpr said:


> That's a nice theory that a lot of people think is true, but it's actually not. Last year I had a little "quest" during which I tested integrated amps, receivers and all kinds of devices (even my used-to-be-high-end Panasonic plasma TV) to see what kind of headphone outputs they have.  As a rule, all integrated amps have great headphone outputs. Even the cheap entry level amps from Marantz, Denon, NAD, Cambridge Audio, etc. have excellent headphone outputs with MORE power than any dedicated head amp I've ever tried, are absolutely dead silent in terms of background noise, they sound very spacious (big soundstage and great imaging due to excellent channel separation), they have great channel balance and are very detailed and clear sounding in general. Most of them sound excellent, and there's no hint of muddiness, lack of detail, boomy bass, lack of power, or any other problems that people imagine would be present. Pretty much, they are better than any entry level headphone amps.  I have a Onkyo A-5VL integrated amp, which is pretty much one of the cheapest amps they make, but it sounds 95% as good as my Musical Fidelity M1HPAP ($1000) or Schiit Asgard 2.  In fact, with high impedance headphones such as T1's, HD650's or DT880/990 that I have, with some music it might even sound as good or better.
> 
> People usually imagine headphone outputs on amps as an afterthought...but it's not really an afterthought. It's not like the put in a cheap 10 dollar op-amp based headphone amp circuit inside.  Headphone output actually sounds the same as a speaker output, it feeds from the same source so to speak. Yes, output impedances are high, around 120 ohms I think is the standard...but again, from my experience of comparing low impedance headphone out of integrated amps with high output impedance to how they sound out of ~1 ohm output impedance headamps, the differences are marginal. For example...with K701's, high output impedance even helps them a bit, because it gives them a tiny bit more bass presence, without losing control or tightness too much. And with high impedance cans, differences are almost inaudible.  We're talking about 1-2 db changes in the lows.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't buy into this. Very few integrated amps have good headphone circuitry. Puting a series resistor to the headphone is usually a bad choice as it usually reduces damping. The old industry standard, I believe is 120 Ohms, which most will say, no way. In many cases this will reduce electrical damping and depending on the headphone's impedance curve change the effective FR. If one is to use resitors it should be an L-PAD desgined to the specific impedance and sensitivity of the headphone and not a general solution. IMO, cheap opamps without proper supply rails is at best going to deliver a 2nd class solution. A well designed headphone amp will most likely add excessive cost, driving up the price of an integrated amp. I'd think that few manufactureres would go that route and be less competitive (pricewise). I'm sure if one looks they might find some decent/good but I doubt that would be the general finding.


----------



## Billyb52

I just took delivery of a Lyr2 / Bifrost Uber USB combo.  This is to replace my Fiio E17/Matrix M-Stage setup.  Wow, what a difference. I'm not as adept as others on this forum at describing sound, but I can say that I'm sat here with a big smile on my face, skipping from song to song like a kid opening presents at Christmas time. And that's only with my AKG K550, I haven't tried any of my open phones yet.  My next intended purchase is a pair of ZMF x Vibro's.  Has anyone heard them with the Lyr2/Bifrost?  I'm hoping their anoter big step up from the K550's.
 I'm very happy at the moment and I suspect the Lyr is only going to improve as the tubes burn in.


----------



## tonykaz

Oh my , Lucky You , 
  
   That Schiit combo will be a Classic Combo in 10 Years , you may-not be able to improve over your Fostex based system which Blooms when Voltage is available , still you have a very good Foundational System to explore pretty much all the options out there , you can be a Reviewer now !   
  
   I don't know how you managed to land such a good match , for such affordable costs , probably did a LOT of careful research .  For a whole lot of people your Schiit System is an End-Game / Desert Island system !   Tyll and a few others have Tube Rolled stuff like the Lyr so you can consider a Tube Collection too , What Fun !!!  
   
  A person could own the Trilogy of Schiit Amps ( Asgard 2/Valhala2/Lyr2 ) for about $1,000 , it would take $5,000 to get something that might be better or might not .
  You've done well ,
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## eee1111

has anyone with a bifrost noticed a difference in quality when using usb that ranges from 3 to 6 feet?
  
 is there any difference in quality output between the 2?
  
 i know the longer the cord the worse.......but is it noticeable in any way between a 3 and 6 foot usb a to b cable?
  
 i asked schiit and they said 6 feet max.........


----------



## Tuco1965

No difference.  Just make sure it's rated for usb 2.0


----------



## truly194

Has anyone compare  Schiit lyr/Valhalla with Bottlehead Crack or Little Dot MK IV or  Wa6?


----------



## Billheiser

eee1111 said:


> has anyone with a bifrost noticed a difference in quality when using usb that ranges from 3 to 6 feet?
> 
> is there any difference in quality output between the 2?
> 
> ...


 

 I can't hear any difference between 3 and 10 feet.  Both work fine.


----------



## Audiotic

What tubes you use?


----------



## Billyb52

audiotic said:


> What tubes you use?


Standard tubes that came with the unit


----------



## JGreen08

Well, uh, my Modi needed replacing after it got damaged. So, I decided to order an uber Bifrost. This then slowly morphed into, "I might as well upgrade my Magni too. I've got to take full advantage of the new DAC." Now I have a Lyr 2 on the way. All of this naturally started with wanting to get a new pair of headphones and I still haven't fully decided on what will replace my Westone 4s. My wallet is crying. Any headphones out there that work especially well with the Bifrost + Lyr 2? I've been thinking about the HE 560, LCD2, and HD 650s and my wallet needs to embrace its crying a bit more.


----------



## ThurstonX

jgreen08 said:


> Well, uh, my Modi needed replacing after it got damaged. So, I decided to order an uber Bifrost. This then slowly morphed into, "I might as well upgrade my Magni too. I've got to take full advantage of the new DAC." Now I have a Lyr 2 on the way. All of this naturally started with wanting to get a new pair of headphones and I still haven't fully decided on what will replace my Westone 4s. My wallet is crying. Any headphones out there that work especially well with the Bifrost + Lyr 2? I've been thinking about the HE 560, LCD2, and HD 650s and my wallet needs to embrace its crying a bit more.


 
  
 Yes, all those, but they're fairly different.  Better buy them all, then return or sell the two you don't like... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can vouch for the HE-560s on the Lyr.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Yes, all those, but they're fairly different.  Better buy them all, then return or sell the two you don't like...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 He'll keep them all and mourn his credit card's injuries.


----------



## reddog

jgreen08 said:


> Well, uh, my Modi needed replacing after it got damaged. So, I decided to order an uber Bifrost. This then slowly morphed into, "I might as well upgrade my Magni too. I've got to take full advantage of the new DAC." Now I have a Lyr 2 on the way. All of this naturally started with wanting to get a new pair of headphones and I still haven't fully decided on what will replace my Westone 4s. My wallet is crying. Any headphones out there that work especially well with the Bifrost + Lyr 2? I've been thinking about the HE 560, LCD2, and HD 650s and my wallet needs to embrace its crying a bit more.



A good affordable headphone, that loves the power of the lyr 2 would be the HE-400i.


----------



## ejwiles

I love the original Lyr with my 650's.


----------



## tonykaz

Yea….. , everything likes tons of Headroom .  
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## StanD

tonykaz said:


> Yea….. , everything likes tons of Headroom .
> 
> Tony in Michigan


 
 Until you exceed the maximum capacity that the headphones can handle or the SPL that harms ones ears.


----------



## swspiers

reddog said:


> A good affordable headphone, that loves the power of the lyr 2 would be the HE-400i.




What he wrote.


----------



## tonykaz

Hello Mr.StanD , 
  
   Most  Headphone manufacturers won't reveal what the Maximum Dynamic Range is for their headphones , Oppo does though , their new Planers are rated for 120 db. as is their matching electronics !  120 db equals 20 Bits which is the maximum for recorded music today , only a few of the Active Monitor Companies ( Focal , Adam & Genelec ) make monitor systems that can go beyond 120 db of dynamic range ( maybe a few others ) . 
   120 is too loud to listen to but we're not talking about listening , we're talking about dynamic peaks from the Piano ( for instance ) , the Piano struck-notes can feature an additional 20 db of leading edge , it's just milliseconds long but it's part of the real piano sound .  The other Big peak comes from Cymbals that sail up another 20 Bits beyond the Piano peaks , here too , it's part of the actual sound and is true to life but no equipment today has the headroom for either the Piano or Cymbals so the Recording Studios compress these instruments to keep the recorders from Clipping or the digital equivilant . 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## madwolfa

tonykaz said:


> The other Big peak comes from Cymbals that sail up another 20 Bits beyond the Piano peaks , here too , it's part of the actual sound and is true to life but no equipment today has the headroom for either the Piano or Cymbals so the Recording Studios compress these instruments to keep the recorders from Clipping or the digital equivilant .


 
  
 Funny is that sometimes I clearly hear that piano clipping/distortion in some supposedly audiophile recordings. And I'm sure it's not my headphones.
  
 It's pretty distinct. Guess that's why piano is an ***** to record and playback.


----------



## StanD

tonykaz said:


> Hello Mr.StanD ,
> 
> Most  Headphone manufacturers won't reveal what the Maximum Dynamic Range is for their headphones , Oppo does though , their new Planers are rated for 120 db. as is their matching electronics !  120 db equals 20 Bits which is the maximum for recorded music today , only a few of the Active Monitor Companies ( Focal , Adam & Genelec ) make monitor systems that can go beyond 120 db of dynamic range ( maybe a few others ) .
> 120 is too loud to listen to but we're not talking about listening , we're talking about dynamic peaks from the Piano ( for instance ) , the Piano struck-notes can feature an additional 20 db of leading edge , it's just milliseconds long but it's part of the real piano sound .  The other Big peak comes from Cymbals that sail up another 20 Bits beyond the Piano peaks , here too , it's part of the actual sound and is true to life but no equipment today has the headroom for either the Piano or Cymbals so the Recording Studios compress these instruments to keep the recorders from Clipping or the digital equivilant .
> ...


 
 If I remember correctly we have a theoretical limit of 120 dB hearing range.
 A quite library has a 40 dB SPL noise level.
 If one listens to contemporary music, it is compressed where the DR doesn't even come close to 120 db. If one listens where the peaks are at 120 db, I'd think that the nominal level is enough to damage one's hearing. Really old recordings have plenty of noise so in that case the DR must be dismal. I'd suspect that most people have no need to listen at such levels.


----------



## tonykaz

I agree , the dynamic range is for recording purposes and for the wild extremes which are not common but we need the capability to keep our equipment from clipping .  
  
  70 t 85 db is a good general listening range , leaving us with a 35 t 40 db of headroom .  
  The Mastering process will keep all peaks below 20 bits or 120 db .  
   Compression stays with nearly all Recorded Music including Video Movie explosions soundtracks 
  
  Tony in Michigan 
  
   32 bit recording is being discussed though , phew , that's 192 db of dynamic range , maybe it's for Fog Horns or Torture


----------



## StanD

tonykaz said:


> I agree , the dynamic range is for recording purposes and for the wild extremes which are not common but we need the capability to keep our equipment from clipping .
> 
> 70 t 85 db is a good general listening range , leaving us with a 35 t 40 db of headroom .
> The Mastering process will keep all peaks below 20 bits or 120 db .
> ...


 
 Which is what I always say, in practical terms we don't need more thn 120 dB. I'll bet that if one falls a few dB short of that, considering the realities, how many could even tell. I'd say that 192 dB is perfect for people that listen with earplug in place. I think I'll take a pass on that scenario.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. Madwolfa ,
  
 Yes 
 Consumer DACs  have this problem too .  I think it's the reason High-End has said digital is crap .   We simply haven't had access to DACs that the Mastering Studios rely on .  The Antelope system is only now becoming within price reach ( $5,000 - $15.000 range ) , the dcs is way more $$,$$$ , MSB have one at the $10,000 price point , MSB stuff soars up into the $50,000 range .    
   Phew , if the Schiit Yggy works as claimed we will finally have something to transduce bits into music properly , I'm hopeful  .   
  I heard the MSB DAC , it's able , the lesser Antelope offerings are able too , the New Antelope Pure 2 will sell for $2,100 and promises recording studio capability .  Lets hope , still all are major money .  
   It is worth it for me but I doubt the majority of folks will buy in , it's too much money .  
   These DACs will reveal the next Weak Link , so the pursuit will continue , it always seems to .  
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## tonykaz

Exactly , 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## StanD

tonykaz said:


> Mr. Madwolfa ,
> 
> Yes
> Consumer DACs  have this problem too .  I think it's the reason High-End has said digital is crap .   We simply haven't had access to DACs that the Mastering Studios rely on .  The Antelope system is only now becoming within price reach ( $5,000 - $15.000 range ) , the dcs is way more $$,$$$ , MSB have one at the $10,000 price point , MSB stuff soars up into the $50,000 range .
> ...


 
 One day you will be forced to listen in a sound proof room, any other conditions will compromise the integrity of your kit.


----------



## tonykaz

I have a Semi-anechoic Room ! , I'm down below 25 db ambient .   
  
 I use it to listen but it's for Industrial trouble shooting purposes .  
  
 You can almost hear you heart beating , kinda spooky isn't it ? 
  
 Get rid of the noise and life becomes peaceful .
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## StanD

tonykaz said:


> I have a Semi-anechoic Room ! , I'm down below 25 db ambient .
> 
> I use it to listen but it's for Industrial trouble shooting purposes .
> 
> ...


 
 What about at home, where we listen? I was going t make a crack about listening to one's heart beat or hear the blood rushing through their veins.
 Hmm, perhaps Bose will create ANC for rooms at home. Schiit is smart enough to know that isn't practical, besides they don't have Bose's deep pockets for marketing.


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> One day you will be forced to listen in a sound proof room, any other conditions will compromise the integrity of your kit.




Although in my block list, I read this anyway-

I could have access to the quiet room at NIST in Boulder for which these tests would be entertaining.
But also real world irrelevant.
Don't want to add blood pulsing or lung breathing to the subjective reviews of DAC/Amp/Headphone reviews...


----------



## madwolfa

I think quiet rooms are creepy.


----------



## tonykaz

Home Quiet ,
  
 Well , you can ! , as long as you don't have high-level noise generated by sources like a Wife Screaming .   
 You can create non-reflective surfaces with Carpeting , sound decreases about 3 db per wall bounce , knock out 3 or 4 of those wall bounces and you can get down far , maybe 35 db ambient .  Good looking Carpeting is decorator friendly , a beautiful and quiet room is a great joy to everyday life : it creates a peaceful home and is easy to decorate with the IKEA style of Northern European simplicity , it  gives that textured look , the cats can climb the walls ( finally ) which is quite fun ! 
   My personal residences all feature these textured walls , big dinners are still pleasant despite emotional discussions concerning things like Politics , etc .  
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## ThurstonX

Give me the golf course maintenance dudes, my chainsaw-wielding neighbor, or my BOINC-crankin' old Dell any day for that real world ambiance.  My Lyr will defeat you all!


----------



## madwolfa

thurstonx said:


> Give me the golf course maintenance dudes, my chainsaw-wielding neighbor, or my BOINC-crankin' old Dell any day for that real world ambiance.  My Lyr will defeat you all!


 
  
 Nothing like professional lawn mowers outside Sunday morning...


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Nothing like professional lawn mowers outside Sunday morning...


 
 Jimi Hendrix had that beat....
 Edit: On second thought, he would've appreciated a stack of Schiit Rags.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Jimi Hendrix had that beat....
> Edit: On second thought, he would've appreciated a stack of Schiit Rags.


 
  
 Ya had to go and post a pic of that beast, didn't ya.  Fortunately, I have no space for it and Yggdrasil.  Yeah, that's what I'm lacking... *$ P A C E *.
  
 Someday I'll be running my schiit fully balanced through the ultimate Stack o' Schiit.  But yes, I will build my own StanD


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> Which is what I always say, in practical terms we don't need more thn 120 dB. I'll bet that if one falls a few dB short of that, considering the realities, how many could even tell. I'd say that 192 dB is perfect for people that listen with earplug in place. I think I'll take a pass on that scenario.


 
  
 Or non-lethal crowd control.  Celine Dion @ 192 db would be ideal but possibly against the Geneva Convention ....


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Ya had to go and post a pic of that beast, didn't ya.  Fortunately, I have no space for it and Yggdrasil.  Yeah, that's what I'm lacking... *$ P A C E *.
> 
> Someday I'll be running my schiit fully balanced through the ultimate Stack o' Schiit.  But yes, I will build my own StanD


 
 You mean that Rangy will build the Rack o' Schiit for you.


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> Or non-lethal crowd control.  Celine Dion @ 192 db would be ideal but possibly against the Geneva Convention ....


 
 Is that why she canceled her performances at The Colosseum at Caesars Palace in Vegas? She's doing the Geneva Convention instead.


----------



## NinjaHamster

Celine Dion at ANY level of dB's should not be spoken of within this forum - the first rule, remember ...


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

ninjahamster said:


> Celine Dion at ANY level of dB's should not be spoken of within this forum - the first rule, remember ...


 
  
 She isn't _that_ bad


----------



## jaywillin

blackenedplague said:


> She isn't _that_ bad



yeah ,she is


----------



## Billheiser

jaywillin said:


> yeah ,she is


+1


----------



## jexby

jaywillin said:


> yeah ,she is


 

 +1000^12


----------



## madwolfa




----------



## CJs06

ninjahamster said:


> Celine Dion at ANY level of dB's should not be spoken of within this forum - the first rule, remember ...


 
 The first rule of Head-Fi is you don't talk about Celine Dion on Head-Fi. The second rule of Head-Fi is YOU DON'T TALK about Celine Dion on Head-Fi.


----------



## m50man

How big is the difference in sound quality between the Gungnir and the Bifrost Uber with gen 2 USB upgrades?
  
 I have ordered myself a Lyr 2 and a Gungnir, but I've waited 3 weeks now and there is no end in sight for the wait on the Gungnir.  I just spoke with Schiit customer service about switching the Gungnir for a Bifrost with the upgrades I listed above.  
  
 At this point in time, I do not have a balanced amp nor balanced headphones so I am wondering if I would be pretty much just as good with the Bifrost (saving myself around 300 as well).  Primarily going to use via USB.  I did like how the Gungnir provided me options in case I wanted to upgrade to balanced in the future, but it really isn't necessary at this moment.  Does the Gungnir provide noticeably better separation, sound staging, detail retrieval etc?
  
 By the time I may need balanced, they may have a new DAC entirely or there might be something better.
  
 So what's the verdict on the Bifrost 2nd gen usb + uber analog upgrade compared with the Gungnir (2nd gen usb) with a Lyr 2???  Is it worth the extra $ and wait??


----------



## m50man

Edit:
  
 Apologies for the double post. My mistake.


----------



## Tuco1965

m50man said:


> How big is the difference in sound quality between the Gungnir and the Bifrost Uber with gen 2 USB upgrades?
> 
> I have ordered myself a Lyr 2 and a Gungnir, but I've waited 3 weeks now and there is no end in sight for the wait on the Gungnir.  I just spoke with Schiit customer service about switching the Gungnir for a Bifrost with the upgrades I listed above.
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream#post_10040449


----------



## adamaley

tuco1965 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-i-hate-chocolate-ice-cream#post_10040449


 
  
 That's a great place to start, especially comparing the Gungnir to its peers and above. I don't remember there being a lot of talk about it compared to the Bifrost Uber. I think doing a search in the Gungnir appreciation thread with "Bifrost Uber" will yield better results. Please note that many an attempt to suggest that a fully-upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than an Uber Bifrost has attracted swarms of pitchfork wielding Uberists to reign death on the unsuspectings. All the best.


----------



## madwolfa

adamaley said:


> Please note that many an attempt to suggest that a fully-upgraded Gungnir in non-balanced mode is still better than an Uber Bifrost has attracted swarms of pitchfork wielding Uberists to reign death on the unsuspectings. All the best.


 
  
 Why would it be (noticeably) better given that in non-balanced mode it essentialy IS a Bifrost Uber? Just summing the outputs from exactly the same DAC boards.
  
 Yes, it has the Adapticlock mumbo-jumbo, but would that really make a world of a difference?


----------



## StefanJK

madwolfa said:


> Nothing like professional lawn mowers outside Sunday morning...


 
 Yes, and it is not just Sundays.  Really bugs me on a nice day off, the noise of leaf blowers and lawn mowers.
  
 Visited a friend in a really upscale part of LA once, got really hyped about spending the day out back in the garden/pool area.  Noise just killed it for me, you can hear these things at 200 yards.  Worse than highways at 500 yards.  Doesn't help that you know the lawn is being leaf blown for people who aren't even there and won't be there for weeks to come.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

m50man said:


> How big is the difference in sound quality between the Gungnir and the Bifrost Uber with gen 2 USB upgrades?
> 
> I have ordered myself a Lyr 2 and a Gungnir, but I've waited 3 weeks now and there is no end in sight for the wait on the Gungnir.  I just spoke with Schiit customer service about switching the Gungnir for a Bifrost with the upgrades I listed above.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Unless you have an EXTREMELY transparent/accurate amplifier and headphones, you probably won't notice.
  
 Since you are using a tube amp you can get whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside


----------



## BeatsWork

Ghunghir + Mjolnir looking for 3-some with Tube Buffer/Preamp to make warm and smooth sounds 

I want to see if adding a tube pre-amp between Gunghir & Mjolnir would add back some of the lushness I miss from from SE Tube amp.

Maybe not a permanent addition to my stack but what do you think about this http://www.amazon.com/ART-Pro-MPAII-Channel-Preamp/dp/B0020IYOO8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415942313&sr=8-1&keywords=art+pro+2

Any reason not to try and see how it sounds?


Variable Input Impedance For Flexible Microphone Voicing
Selectable Plate Voltage
Discrete Class-A Input Microphone Preamplifier
Low Noise at Lower Gain Settings
Extremely Low Total Harmonic Distortion

Product Description
The ART Pro MPA II two channel microphone preamp is the next generation in affordable high performance microphone preamp technology. 
Each microphone input circuit, with selectable 48v phantom power, features variable input impedance which can radically vary the overall performance of any high quality dynamic or ribbon microphone. 
The Pro MPA II can be configured for dual mono or stereo operation with selectable mid/side mic support, summing the adjacent channel, to decode left/right signals. 
The Pro MPA II can operate at either a low or high plate voltage on the two integrated hand-selected 12AX7 tubes for wider variation of preamp tone and performance. 
Large back-lit analog VU output meters display input or output levels while multi-colored LED arrays, with average or peak hold, show tube gain. Housed in a standard 2 space rack-mountable steel chassis, with CNC routed black anodized aluminum face panel, the ProMPA II is designed to deliver years of reliable operation in the studio, production facility, or on the road for live sound reinforcement. 

Features: Variable Input Impedance For Flexible Microphone Voicing (150 Ohms To 2400 Ohms) Selectable Plate Voltage Large VU Meters Backlit Function Switches Discrete Class-A Input Microphone Preamplifier Low Noise at Lower Gain Settings Extremely Low Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) Wide Frequency Response Additional Front Mounted Instrument Input Jack Supports Mid/Side Miking Technique Operates at +4dbm/-10dbv Output Selectable Stereo/Dual Operation of Output Controls Automatic Instrument Input Selection


----------



## JGreen08

Just got my Bifrost and Lyr 2. Gave it a shot with my old usb cable before I pick up an optical. Wow. This is a HUGE step up from my Magni Modi with just my Westone 4s. Since IEMs aren't exactly hard to drive, I didn't think I would notice anything. Very glad I was wrong. The only downside is I immediately heard some imperfections in my older mp3s. Now I wonder just how good this step up will sound with some new headphones.


----------



## jamato8

Running my Lyr 2 out of the balanced power supply I built a few years ago. 50 pounds of copper (before copper prices went through the roof) in the special toroidal transformer built for AC isolation. Does a great job but wasn't sure if there would be a change or not. A little more clarity and nice bass response. Just about get a hernia moving the power supply around, more like a floor anchor.


----------



## tonykaz

Way better ,
  
 the little M&Ms are ok , beginners stuff really , the Bifrost & Lyr are about as good as it gets until you start chasing the multi-thousand dollar rigs .  
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## nbrowser

Can I join this informal Schiit owners club type thing? Picked up a Asgard 2 yesterday and honestly THRILLED with it in the small amount of time I've had to get my ears on it. It's currently connected to a Mac Mini via analog connection using an Audioquest Tower 1/8th to RCA interconnect until I up my game in DAC land and yeah....taking a seriously hard look at a Bifrost Uber. My headphones are Sony MDR1R, sounds absolutely sinfully good.


----------



## ejwiles

nbrowser said:


> Can I join this informal Schiit owners club type thing? Picked up a Asgard 2 yesterday and honestly THRILLED with it in the small amount of time I've had to get my ears on it. It's currently connected to a Mac Mini via analog connection using an Audioquest Tower 1/8th to RCA interconnect until I up my game in DAC land and yeah....taking a seriously hard look at a Bifrost Uber. My headphones are Sony MDR1R, sounds absolutely sinfully good.


 
 Welcome, and enjoy your Schiit!  Plenty of great upgrades to tempt your wallet, but most important is to enjoy what you have.


----------



## LogicalDisconnect

Anyone have some impressions of the Mjolnir with the LCD-3F? I know it was meant to be excellent with the 3C but haven't read too much about it with the 3F. Tossing up between the Mjolnir / Gungnir stack and the Meier Daccord / Classic stack, but willing to consider alternatives around the same price range.


----------



## reddog

nbrowser said:


> Can I join this informal Schiit owners club type thing? Picked up a Asgard 2 yesterday and honestly THRILLED with it in the small amount of time I've had to get my ears on it. It's currently connected to a Mac Mini via analog connection using an Audioquest Tower 1/8th to RCA interconnect until I up my game in DAC land and yeah....taking a seriously hard look at a Bifrost Uber. My headphones are Sony MDR1R, sounds absolutely sinfully good.



Welcome to club Schiit, may your headphones always put a smile on your face and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your wallet.


----------



## Tuco1965

reddog said:


> Welcome to club Schiit, may your headphones always put a smile on your face and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your wallet.


 
  
 Ha ha that's a good one!


----------



## BeatsWork

nbrowser said:


> Can I join this informal Schiit owners club type thing? Picked up a Asgard 2 yesterday and honestly THRILLED with it in the small amount of time I've had to get my ears on it. It's currently connected to a Mac Mini via analog connection using an Audioquest Tower 1/8th to RCA interconnect until I up my game in DAC land and yeah....taking a seriously hard look at a Bifrost Uber. My headphones are Sony MDR1R, sounds absolutely sinfully good.


 

 Congrats. You are now officially a Schiithead.


----------



## nbrowser

Thank you folks! Been noticing a lot of people are very friendly on here which is a nice thing.
  
 Spent a few hours last night just rockin out with this Asgard 2, very fine unit to be honest. What it's done to my headphones is quite good. I have had the opportunity to listen other headphone amps and well, some were great, some were crud and some just well...got outclassed by an iPhone 5 direct. I've heard ones from $100 to $1,000 and I'll be honest, the thousand dollar ones in MY opinion, were outclassed by a $290 piece (I'm Canadian and the Asgard 2 was bought at a RARE local dealer, $290 is in Canadian dollars plus tax out the door, when exchange and shipping is factored in from Schiit direct it's pretty close and maybe I came out a bit ahead).
  
 American made metal and board, and hot damn it's as pretty to the eyes as it is to the ears. Sure I coulda bought a plastic cased elcheapo thing from overseas but Schiit does honestly have it's Schiit together being able to make a quality piece and charge an honest buck for it. Surprises upon unboxing my new toy, screws that were actually straight, not off kilter in their holes but the heads parallel with the panels, it felt solidly built with nothing rattling inside. You can see and feel craftsmanship, not something someone slammed together making $5 an hour if that. The box isn't fancy, nor is the owners manual but they serve their purpose quite well.
  
 It takes quite a bit to make me take notice with gear I buy, the Asgard 2 held quite a lot on first blush and yep, I'm a happy Schiithead. Now I'm not the "wordy" audiophile but after a month with this thing I promise a review and maybe by that time...it'll have a Bifrost Uber as a partner in crime


----------



## Tuco1965

The Uberfrost will make an excellent addition when you get to buying one.


----------



## kothganesh

tuco1965 said:


> The Uberfrost will make an excellent addition when you get to buying one.


 

 Knowing fully well that the wallet will take several beatings in this hobby, could we please bypass the Bifrost and go straight to the Gungir ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...Noooo...wait there is the Yggy !!


----------



## KLJTech

For the first time in a LONG time I've settled in with one DAC, the Gungnir Gen2 USB which I think punches well above its price point. Then again, A LOT of Schiit Audio components manage this wonderful trick.
  
 I wish I had held onto my Monarchy Audio 22B (dual 20Bit Burr-Brown PCM63P-K DAC's) that I bought new at some point in the 90's so I could compare it to the Gungnir. Of course back then we weren't using computers as a source, I was using a two-piece top loading CD transport (no built-in DAC) that cost me more than the Gungnir. I can hardly wait to hear Schiit Audio's new R/2R DAC...though for the money its hard to beat the AKM DAC's that they've chosen for their Bifrost and Gungnir.


----------



## MattTCG

Is there a gen 1 and gen 2 version of the Gungnir?


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Is there a gen 1 and gen 2 version of the Gungnir?


 
 isn't there a gen 1, and 2 corcerning the usb input ?


----------



## KLJTech

There was the original USB input board if you bought it with USB input and then the Gen 2 USB upgrade.


----------



## Roan3489

Still new to the community, but I'm in love with this Schiit.


----------



## Guidostrunk

New schiit owner. In regards to the Valhalla, can anyone confirm that these tubes(1966 Foton 6n6p) are the good ones from Russia. Thanks in advance.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=381055543761&alt=web


----------



## Pirakaphile

Guess since I've got the Magni/Modi combo, and I'm probably going to get the Vali someday (shaddup, I'm too poor to get anything better) I'd better announce my allegiance to the gods of budget audiophile awesomeness.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

pirakaphile said:


> Guess since I've got the Magni/Modi combo, and I'm probably going to get the Vali someday (shaddup, I'm too poor to get anything better) I'd better announce my allegiance to the gods of budget audiophile awesomeness.


 
  
  
 You're actually in the butter zone right now, be happy


----------



## Pirakaphile

blackenedplague said:


> You're actually in the butter zone right now, be happy


 
 Happy, no problem. Butter zone, eh?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

pirakaphile said:


> Happy, no problem. Butter zone, eh?


 
  
 It basically means the ultimate in bang/buck, or just before diminishing returns sets in.
  
 You could also argue that the HD650's are the butter zone of headphones, or that 24/96 is the butter zone of digital audio resolution.
  
 Of course this definition and what applies will vary between each person but you have to find the butter zone for yourself


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Guess since I've got the Magni/Modi combo, and I'm probably going to get the Vali someday (shaddup, I'm too poor to get anything better) I'd better announce my allegiance to the gods of budget audiophile awesomeness.


 
 It's also possible that you might prefer the Magni. It has less noise, no microphonics and more juice. I picked up both to see which one I preferred to use in my sencondary listening post at home. I prefer the Magni, I kept both.


----------



## Pirakaphile

blackenedplague said:


> It basically means the ultimate in bang/buck, or just before diminishing returns sets in.
> 
> You could also argue that the HD650's are the butter zone of headphones, or that 24/96 is the butter zone of digital audio resolution.
> 
> Of course this definition and what applies will vary between each person but you have to find the butter zone for yourself



Howabout I just call it the goldilocks zone? That way it makes sense to my sci-fi oriented brain. 



stand said:


> It's also possible that you might prefer the Magni. It has less noise, no microphonics and more juice. I picked up both to see which one I preferred to use in my sencondary listening post at home. I prefer the Magni, I kept both.



I don't need that much juice, and microphonics'll be bearable. Noise, well, I don't listen at very high volumes so it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Billheiser

pirakaphile said:


> Happy, no problem. Butter zone, eh?


 
 Do you also know about butter face?
  
 (she had a bangin' body, butter face...)


----------



## MattTCG

I recently picked up a used like new gungnir. I assumed it was gen2 usb. It's not. Is it worth the money to buy the upgrade board?


----------



## kothganesh

matttcg said:


> I recently picked up a used like new gungnir. I assumed it was gen2 usb. It's not. Is it worth the money to buy the upgrade board?


 

 OH YES PLEASE ! Matt, please read the first page of Purrin's DAC thread for Gen 1 and Gen2 Gungnir


----------



## commtrd

matttcg said:


> I recently picked up a used like new gungnir. I assumed it was gen2 usb. It's not. Is it worth the money to buy the upgrade board?




Sure is. And if you can, swing another c-note and grab a Wyrd to go with it.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> I recently picked up a used like new gungnir. I assumed it was gen2 usb. It's not. Is it worth the money to buy the upgrade board?


 
 yes, yes, yes !!


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks guys. I need to do more research on the Wyrd. It keeps popping up on my radar.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys. I need to do more research on the Wyrd. It keeps popping up on my radar.


 
 i've heard good things, and its cheap


----------



## StefanJK

jaywillin said:


> i've heard good things, and its cheap


 
 But we don't know why it works! (if it works)
  
 The 'why' here is a subcategory of the question of why different DAC input sound different -- they are all the same digital data, reclocked by the DAC.  Is this all ground noise?  That can't be for optical, and USB sounds better than optical on the Gungnir with Wyrd and Gen 2 UBS...are optical cables that bad?  I do think so for really cheap cables (I've heard differences, which I can put into the category of dysfunctional cables), but I have the same issue, to a lesser extent, with quality optical cables.  I do buy that my optical out might be really crappy.  Still, 12 MBs or so on an optical out shouldn't be that hard.  But you can mess anything up (or not, in this case?).


----------



## jaywillin

stefanjk said:


> But we don't know why it works! (if it works)
> 
> The 'why' here is a subcategory of the question of why different DAC input sound different -- they are all the same digital data, reclocked by the DAC.  Is this all ground noise?  That can't be for optical, and USB sounds better than optical on the Gungnir with Wyrd and Gen 2 UBS...are optical cables that bad?  I do think so for really cheap cables (I've heard differences, which I can put into the category of dysfunctional cables), but I have the same issue, to a lesser extent, with quality optical cables.  I do buy that my optical out might be really crappy.  Still, 12 MBs or so on an optical out shouldn't be that hard.  But you can mess anything up (or not, in this case?).


 
 i haven't heard the wyrd myself, i've just heard others say the like it, and it is pretty cheap, so i may try it one day


----------



## nbrowser

Finally, a photo of my Schiit at rest and no, I don't store the MDR1Rs on the amp when it's on! But she sure looks nice all the same. It's temporary home is on top of my Yaqin tube integrated amp until I find a permanent home to place the Asgard 2.


----------



## Rudiger

Hey, it seems that Schiit internet site products section have been modified, new categories (preamps, usb interface, upgrades) Nice !


----------



## NinjaHamster

You know you need the Yggy, Matt!


----------



## MattTCG

I'm very happy with how the gun plays with the hd800 and that's all that matters right now 

I would consider other dacs when they are released.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> I'm very happy with how the gun plays with the hd800 and that's all that matters right now
> 
> I would consider other dacs when they are released.



That's great to know for I plan on getting a Gungnir early next year, then I start to save up for the Yggdrasil.


----------



## StefanJK

rudiger said:


> Hey, it seems that Schiit internet site products section have been modified, new categories (preamps, usb interface, upgrades) Nice !


 
 Just looked...which reminds me that the USB 2 upgrade is $150 and the Uber Analog upgrade is $100.    It's a crazy world in audio that USB inputs cost more than anlog stages.


----------



## Zojokkeli

reddog said:


> That's great to know for I plan on getting a Gungnir early next year, then I start to save up for the Yggdrasil.


 
  
 Why not save a bit longer and go straight for Yggy? Or get Bifrost instead, and have a shorter savings-period.


----------



## reddog

zojokkeli said:


> Why not save a bit longer and go straight for Yggy? Or get Bifrost instead, and have a shorter savings-period.



Yes I agree it would be wiser to wait and save up for the Yggdrasil. I just wanted a good dac to go with the Ragnarok, which I plan to order within the next few weeks. But my old Reciever does a fine job. Thanks for the advice mate, it's appreciated


----------



## commtrd

Hoping my Gungnir plays nice with the Ragnarok which is supposed to arrive tomorrow. It sounds really nice with the current Mjolnir so it is logical to assume it will work nicely with the rok as well. With this stack sounding really awesome thru LCD2.2, LCD3c, and now LCD-X, it's kinda hard to imagine how much better the Ragnarok will sound comparatively. Looking forward to finding out!


----------



## reddog

commtrd said:


> Hoping my Gungnir plays nice with the Ragnarok which is supposed to arrive tomorrow. It sounds really nice with the current Mjolnir so it is logical to assume it will work nicely with the rok as well. With this stack sounding really awesome thru LCD2.2, LCD3c, and now LCD-X, it's kinda hard to imagine how much better the Ragnarok will sound comparatively. Looking forward to finding out!



Sweet I hope that the Gungnir and the Ragnarok put a big smile on your face as you jam out to your favorite tunes.


----------



## MattTCG

commtrd said:


> Hoping my Gungnir plays nice with the Ragnarok which is supposed to arrive tomorrow. It sounds really nice with the current Mjolnir so it is logical to assume it will work nicely with the rok as well. With this stack sounding really awesome thru LCD2.2, LCD3c, and now LCD-X, it's kinda hard to imagine how much better the Ragnarok will sound comparatively. Looking forward to finding out!


----------



## Synergist969

I too am expecting delivery tomorrow of the "Rag" that I ordered back on day one of the open orders...and it just so happens that I am scheduled for a root-canal tomorrow afternoon...lol...hoping that once I get home I will have the energy and desire to unpack, and connect that beast...so that listening with my "Classic" LCD-2.2's for the first time in balanced mode, with a world class amplifier will sufficiently salve my discomfort...    ...multiple firsts for me...


----------



## NinjaHamster

synergist969 said:


> I too am expecting delivery tomorrow of the "Rag" that I ordered back on day one of the open orders...and it just so happens that I am scheduled for a root-canal tomorrow afternoon...lol...hoping that once I get home I will have the energy and desire to unpack, and connect that beast...so that listening with my "Classic" LCD-2.2's for the first time in balanced mode, with a world class amplifier will sufficiently salve my discomfort...    ...multiple firsts for me...





Better EQ the bass out of those LCD2's if you've just had dental work ...:basshead:


----------



## cspirou

draygonn said:


> Schiit Stack has arrived!


 

 You should add the Vali on top of that and use the SYS to switch between the two amps.


----------



## ThurstonX

cspirou said:


> You should add the Vali on top of that and use the SYS to switch between the two amps.


 
  
 There is a Vali on top (right-click and open in a new tab, if you can't see it).  He could stick a Magni and Mani in there and really go to town. Might need a second SYS, though


----------



## mtkupp

I just received an Asgard2 from Amazon and need some help figuring out the best way to connect it to my current setup. I really should have given this more thought before purchasing 
  
  My current setup is laptop - USB - Peachtree Nova 125. I also have  turntable running through a phono stage that uses the only analog input on the integrated amp. My thought was to use the preamp out of the Nova to drive the Asgard, but of course it doesn't work the way I hoped. Ideally what I'd like to see is both the turntable and streaming available to the Asgard and the Nova and being able to use both the headphone outs simultaneously. Any suggestions on how I can make this work without spending twice what the Asgard cost?


----------



## gefski

Two Bifrosts in a parallel configuration is my dac setup again this winter, so here's my annual picture of it.


----------



## BeatsWork

gefski said:


> Two Bifrosts in a parallel configuration is my dac setup again this winter, so here's my annual picture of it.


 
  
 Yes but won't be balanced as I believe the right channel is Filtered.


----------



## Billheiser

Quadfrost! Bottoms up, here's to page 500 of this thread.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

billheiser said:


> Quadfrost! Bottoms up, here's to page 500 of this thread.


 
  
  
 Oh lord it is that big. Well hopefully in the next few months I can rejoin legitimately with the Mani


----------



## Guidostrunk

Can a 12at7/ecc81 tube , be used in the Valhalla? I have the later version , Valhalla.


----------



## odevans

Bought Audeze's LCD-2 last week, an unbelievable piece of kit. My current issue is that my current DAC/Amp config is extremely basic. So, my question to you guys...
  
 ...Do I pull the trigger on a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack, or go with something else?


----------



## hodgjy

odevans said:


> Bought Audeze's LCD-2 last week, an unbelievable piece of kit. My current issue is that my current DAC/Amp config is extremely basic. So, my question to you guys...
> 
> ...Do I pull the trigger on a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack, or go with something else?


 
  
 Personally, I think the balancing argument is a little over done. A good SE system should do fine. I really dig my TEAC HA-501, which is SE, but dual mono. Tons of clean power with good channel separation.


----------



## tonykaz

Hello Mr. hodjy , Jay ,
  
  I just had a look at the Teac , it's quite a Amp , Class A and a generous feature set .  I'd not heard of it before you mentioned it .  Thanks ! 
  
 You may get a little note from the California Schiit Police , I think you're only supposed to recommend Schiit products on these Schiit sites .  I did get a note from the head man overthere and am mildly miffed about it so I thought I'd better prepare you for that eventuality . 
  
 Still , that Teac piece looks like one Hellofa Amp , wonder what their DAC is like .  Plus , I think Teac is made in Japan not China .  
 Thanks for the tip .  
  I am from Manitowoc Wi but I'm not a Packer man , still a Milw.Brewers fan though , oh well , I know , they moved out just like us .   
 Another Japanese piece is ESOTERIC , it's rather pricy , probably too pricy . 
  
 Tony in Michigan 
   
  ps. that Audeze owner should be pleased with the Lyr 2 which I believe to be an unbeatable value for money Amp !  ,  see , I'm trying to be "Fair and Balanced" although I don't believe in balanced ! , unbalanced is just fine as far as I'm concerned !!!


----------



## gmazz

Really enjoy by Schitt setup.  I moved up from a dragonfly about 5 months ago to Bifrost and have zero complaints.  Very solid piece of equipment.  I have had it paired up with a valhalla 2 but now am moving up to a Lyr to power a more power hungry pair of phones.  Sound is great and looks good too.  Made in US is icing on the cake.  (not necessary but nice to know!)


----------



## hodgjy

tonykaz said:


> Hello Mr. hodjy , Jay ,
> 
> I just had a look at the Teac , it's quite a Amp , Class A and a generous feature set .  I'd not heard of it before you mentioned it .  Thanks !
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey Tony,
  
 I'm the thread starter here, and also a well-known Schiit fan, so there won't be any problems.  I really like my Bifrost Uber as my DAC.  I also still have my Asgard 2, which is a very good amp, but the noise floor is noticeably higher than the TEAC.


----------



## teofilrocks

I've been an M&M stack owner for 1.5 years now, but I'm not sure I've ever joined this thread. Been out of the loop for a while. 

Just got a pair of HD650s in and since Purrin said the best budget DAC setup (or something like that) is the Wyrd+Modi, I ordered one of those, too. Waiting for it to come in. Then I'll have a WMM triple stack (Weapon of Mass Music).


----------



## NinjaHamster

odevans said:


> Bought Audeze's LCD-2 last week, an unbelievable piece of kit. My current issue is that my current DAC/Amp config is extremely basic. So, my question to you guys...
> 
> ...Do I pull the trigger on a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack, or go with something else?





The Gung/Mjo stack is a great option. I actually quite like the Lyr, so the Lyr2 is another option (but plan to spend a lot extra on some NOS tubes). Another option would be the Geek Pulse DAC/Headphone.


----------



## ThurstonX

ninjahamster said:


> The Gung/Mjo stack is a great option. I actually quite like the Lyr, so the Lyr2 is another option (but plan to spend a lot extra on some NOS tubes). Another option would be the Geek Pulse DAC/Headphone.


 
  
 While one certainly might spend a lot on NOS tubes, it's not really necessary.  Just don't want to discourage people from consider the Lyr (used) or Lyr 2 due to an assumption that a $200 pair of tubes is necessary.  But yes, it's wise to plan on buying other tubes, if only to compare.  Some people live fine with the stock or other inexpensive tubes.  Just look at all the people who aren't on the tube rolling thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That said, tubes are fun


----------



## Tuco1965

thurstonx said:


> While one certainly might spend a lot on NOS tubes, it's not really necessary.  Just don't want to discourage people from consider the Lyr (used) or Lyr 2 due to an assumption that a $200 pair of tubes is necessary.  But yes, it's wise to plan on buying other tubes, if only to compare.  Some people live fine with the stock or other inexpensive tubes.  Just look at all the people who aren't on the tube rolling thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You don't even have to break the bank to find tubes that are really good.


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> You don't even have to break the bank to find tubes that are really good.


 
  
 It's true.  The trick with tubes is finding the will to stop comparing and stick with what you've got.  Comparisons generally require buying tubes.  At least there's a market for them, so you could see it as a sort of rental fee.


----------



## kman1211

tuco1965 said:


> You don't even have to break the bank to find tubes that are really good.


 
 That is true, I found a pair of tubes that I love the sound of with on my Lyr 2 and they were only $40. I know they are good as every headphone I tried on them sounds better on them than the stock tubes and my other NOS tubes. The stock tubes are pretty good on the Lyr 2, better than my other NOS tubes.


----------



## Guidostrunk

78 voskod silver shields. $40 from a fellow head-fier , who sells on ebay. These tubes are more than a night and day difference. It's absolutely insane how good these tubes are. 





kman1211 said:


> That is true, I found a pair of tubes that I love the sound of with on my Lyr 2 and they were only $40. I know they are good as every headphone I tried on them sounds better on them than the stock tubes and my other NOS tubes. The stock tubes are pretty good on the Lyr 2, better than my other NOS tubes.


----------



## nway

Between the Magni and Vali, which would better complement my cans?
 • HD 600
 • Fidelio X1
 • ATH-M50
 • MDR-V6
  
 I'd greatly appreciate feedback from anyone who's tried any of these cans with the Magni and/or Vali.
  
 I'm also curious if any E12 owners could give their thoughts on how the E12 compares to the Magni and/or Vali, with respect to sound quality. I'm guessing that for the E12, I'd be paying a premium for portability as opposed to audio fidelity, correct? Would I be right to assume the Magni/Vali offer better sound quality than the E12, even though the E12 is the same price as the Vali and more expensive than the Magni?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

thurstonx said:


> That said, tubes are fun


 
  
  
 In honesty, they are. I won't elaborate


----------



## Amlalsulami

Hi, 
  
 I have Bifrost and Lyr 2 so i want to connect them to my AK 120 as a source for music
 Note: My Bifrost it's have just Optical and Cox i didn't upgrade for USB 
  
 So please anyone let me know, Thanks


----------



## superjawes

nway said:


> Between the Magni and Vali, which would better complement my cans?
> • HD 600
> • Fidelio X1
> • ATH-M50
> ...


Magni. It will drive almost everything you can throw at it. Vali will probably be okay and offer tubey sounds, but I don't think you're going to beat Magni's versatility, and you can always save up for a "real" tube amp later if you prefer the high impedance cans.


----------



## nway

superjawes said:


> Magni. It will drive almost everything you can throw at it. Vali will probably be okay and offer tubey sounds, but I don't think you're going to beat Magni's versatility, and you can always save up for a "real" tube amp later if you prefer the high impedance cans.


 
  
 Man, I'm so conflicted. First I was getting the impression that the Vali might only work with my HD 600 and was told that it hums with the M50 (Vali: 0, Magni: 1); then I read numerous accounts of the Vali working well with the X1 and was told by someone else that the Vali works well with the M50 (Vali: 1, Magni: 1); then I had someone tell me he prefers the Magni over the Vali for the HD 600 (Vali: 1, Magni: 2); then I did a thread search and saw numerous instances of praise for the HD600+Vali combo (Vali: 2, Magni: 2); and now you're telling me I should just go for the Magni due to its versatility (Vali: 2, Magni: 3). This is driving me crazy!
  
 I'm contemplating getting the Vali and just selling whichever headphones don't work with it. Have you particularly tried the Vali with the M50 or MDR-V6? I already know the Vali works well with the HD 600 and X1, so the only uncertainties are how it pairs with the M50 and MDR-V6 (and the ATH-PRO500MK2, but those aren't so common so I won't bother asking about 'em).


----------



## JoelT

nway said:


> Man, I'm so conflicted...


 
 Easy. Buy both, decide for yourself. Return the amp you like less. The return policy is _slightly _less generous than most of their products (15% restocking fee), but they're both low cost items...no big deal.


----------



## KLJTech

nway said:


> Between the Magni and Vali, which would better complement my cans?
> • HD 600
> • Fidelio X1
> • ATH-M50
> ...


 
  
 Have you contacted the guys at Schiit Audio and asked them the same question? They've helped steer me the right way _a couple times_ and its not always to the more expensive component. I wish I could help, but I've never heard either amp. Good luck!


----------



## nway

joelt said:


> Easy. Buy both, decide for yourself. Return the amp you like less. The return policy is _slightly _less generous than most of their products (15% restocking fee), but they're both low cost items...no big deal.


 

 Yeah, I was contemplating doing that, but I always feel anxious buying something expensive (for me) that I don't plan to keep, lest something happen leaving me unable to return it. Anyway, wouldn't I just be able to buy it on Amazon and not have to worry about any restocking fee? It's sold by Schiit Audio but fulfilled by Amazon, so I presume I'd be able to return it within a month and only have to pay shipping, which would probably be cheaper than the 15% restocking fee.
  


kljtech said:


> Have you contacted the guys at Schiit Audio and asked them the same question? They've helped steer me the right way _a couple times_ and its not always to the more expensive component. I wish I could help, but I've never heard either amp. Good luck!


 

 Thanks, I'll do that! I'm leaning heavily in favor of the Vali due to all the good things I've heard about it with the HD600 and X1, but I'll email them to inquire them about its compatibility with my other headphones.


----------



## AladdinSane

I can tell you the Vali plus HD600 is very very good.


----------



## KLJTech

aladdinsane said:


> I can tell you the Vali plus HD600 is very very good.


 
  
 Gotta love tubes! Frankly I doubt you can go wrong either way but the guys at Schiit will know what amp will work best for your needs.


----------



## jaywillin

i've spent the last year using a wadia 121 for dac duties, i just sold it, and got a modi again as i wait for my
 lhlabs geek pulse x.
 i tell you want, i'd forgotten just how good the little modi is, just outfreakingstanding for $100, damn !


----------



## superjawes

nway said:


> Man, I'm so conflicted. First I was getting the impression that the Vali might only work with my HD 600 and was told that it hums with the M50 (Vali: 0, Magni: 1); then I read numerous accounts of the Vali working well with the X1 and was told by someone else that the Vali works well with the M50 (Vali: 1, Magni: 1); then I had someone tell me he prefers the Magni over the Vali for the HD 600 (Vali: 1, Magni: 2); then I did a thread search and saw numerous instances of praise for the HD600+Vali combo (Vali: 2, Magni: 2); and now you're telling me I should just go for the Magni due to its versatility (Vali: 2, Magni: 3). This is driving me crazy!
> 
> I'm contemplating getting the Vali and just selling whichever headphones don't work with it. Have you particularly tried the Vali with the M50 or MDR-V6? I already know the Vali works well with the HD 600 and X1, so the only uncertainties are how it pairs with the M50 and MDR-V6 (and the ATH-PRO500MK2, but those aren't so common so I won't bother asking about 'em).


I have a Magni, HD600, ATH-M50, and HE-400. All of those combinations sound good.

I will say that my HD600's sound better with my Valhalla, but A) that's a much more expensive amp, and B) Magni+HD600 does not sound bad.


----------



## Xeculus

Just bought a Magni/Modi combo to pair with my HD650's. Pretty excited  
  
 I'm wondering just how different of a sonic signature change occurs if I upgrade to a more expensive Schiit amp, not counting tube amps and the like. From what Schiit seems to claim, I'd be better off upgrading cables or getting better headphones than merely upgrading from the M/M stack. 
  
 Any thoughts are appreciated.


----------



## cspirou

xeculus said:


> I'm wondering just how different of a sonic signature change occurs if I upgrade to a more expensive Schiit amp, not counting tube amps and the like. From what Schiit seems to claim, I'd be better off upgrading cables or getting better headphones than merely upgrading from the M/M stack.
> 
> Any thoughts are appreciated.




From my understanding the most important part of your setup is the headphones and source. The least important is the amp. After you get an amp that satisfies the requirements for running your headphones, then you reach a point of diminishing returns on more expensive options. 

That is not to say that you won't hear an improvement. But if you had $1600 to spend I think you would find a much bigger benefit buying a pair of Audeze headphones then buying the Ragnorok.


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

I remember a reviewer on YouTube saying The FiiO E10K is better than the Magni+Modi. Anyone here has experience with both of these?


----------



## jaywillin

midnightempest said:


> I remember a reviewer on YouTube saying The FiiO E10K is better than the Magni+Modi. Anyone here has experience with both of these?


 
 i have had both, both are great at their price points, but its been a while since i've heard the e10, i don't know if i could say it's better than the m/m, or the m/m is better than the e10, i think it would depend on the headphones you were driving with them


----------



## money4me247

xeculus said:


> Just bought a Magni/Modi combo to pair with my HD650's. Pretty excited
> 
> I'm wondering just how different of a sonic signature change occurs if I upgrade to a more expensive Schiit amp, not counting tube amps and the like. From what Schiit seems to claim, I'd be better off upgrading cables or getting better headphones than merely upgrading from the M/M stack.
> 
> Any thoughts are appreciated.




cable changes have the least impact. headphones changes have the most.


----------



## nway

jaywillin said:


> i have had both, both are great at their price points, but its been a while since i've heard the e10, i don't know if i could say it's better than the m/m, or the m/m is better than the e10, i think it would depend on the headphones you were driving with them


 

 Really? The M/M ($218) is $142 more than the E10K ($76). I would hope the M/M would obviously be better...


----------



## jaywillin

nway said:


> Really? The M/M ($218) is $142 more than the E10K ($76). I would hope the M/M would obviously be better...



as i said ,i think a lot depends on how you use each and what headphones you're using. Going from memory id say the m/m is a little more on the bright or lighter sound where the e10 more mellow
Head fi is so subjective, i could say something is the best and someone else might think it sucks


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> While one certainly might spend a lot on NOS tubes, it's not really necessary.  Just don't want to discourage people from consider the Lyr (used) or Lyr 2 due to an assumption that a $200 pair of tubes is necessary.  But yes, it's wise to plan on buying other tubes, if only to compare.  Some people live fine with the stock or other inexpensive tubes.  Just look at all the people who aren't on the tube rolling thread
> 
> That said, tubes are fun



Yes one can find inexpensive tubes to roll. I really enjoy using Genalex Gold Lions, in my lyr 2, though I have the fantastic Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are brilliant, and I use them certain nights, to flesh out details in the music. I hope to do a review on the current production Telefunken TK tubes and compare them to my other tubes. I admit I wish I had the exportable income, to have a fine collection of tubes.
Andrew Reddog Jones.


----------



## Xeculus

Thanks for the responses friends. 
  
  


cspirou said:


> From my understanding the most important part of your setup is the headphones and source. The least important is the amp. After you get an amp that satisfies the requirements for running your headphones, then you reach a point of diminishing returns on more expensive options.


 
  
 What about upgrading the DAC?


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

Have anyone tried the FiiO X3's DAC + Magni Combo? Any feedback would be great. Thanks.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Yes one can find inexpensive tubes to roll. I really enjoy using Genalex Gold Lions, in my lyr 2, though I have the fantastic Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, which are brilliant, and I use them certain nights, to flesh out details in the music. I hope to do a review on the current production Telefunken TK tubes and compare them to my other tubes. I admit I wish I had the exportable income, to have a fine collection of tubes.
> Andrew Reddog Jones.


 
  
 Looking forward to hearing your impressions on the current production Teles vs. the NOS E88CCs.


----------



## teofilrocks

xeculus said:


> Just bought a Magni/Modi combo to pair with my HD650's. Pretty excited
> 
> I'm wondering just how different of a sonic signature change occurs if I upgrade to a more expensive Schiit amp, not counting tube amps and the like. From what Schiit seems to claim, I'd be better off upgrading cables or getting better headphones than merely upgrading from the M/M stack.
> 
> Any thoughts are appreciated.


 
  
 Depends on your ears, I would guess. My thoughts are that if you want a different sound, get a different pair of headphones. If you want a slightly adjusted/improved sound, start with the amp, then the dac, and then cables. But each one offers an incrementally smaller change, and it's possible that even an amp upgrade will make only a small improvement in sound to you. Some components may sound different, but you'll have to judge whether that difference is an actual improvement, and whether the improvement is worth the financial cost.


----------



## VintageSTX

Huge fan of this company and the way they operate. Next amp I buy will be from them for sure.


----------



## BeatsWork

cspirou said:


> From my understanding the most important part of your setup is the headphones and source. The least important is the amp. After you get an amp that satisfies the requirements for running your headphones, then you reach a point of diminishing returns on more expensive options.
> 
> That is not to say that you won't hear an improvement. But if you had $1600 to spend I think you would find a much bigger benefit buying a pair of Audeze headphones then buying the Ragnorok.


 
  
 It's more evil than that.  You buy a starter Amp/DAC/HP and all are on par. Then you buy a much more expensive HP and realize your AMP/DAC are the limiting factor, so you buy a high end Amp/DAC and then you want an even more expensive HP to pair with them ......  Next thing you know buying an LCD-X seems like a perfectly rationale thing to do.
  
 But you're right, you will NEVER, unless extremely lucky, get the same "bang for the buck" you got with your 1st $300 when moving to ANY external amp/DAC and decent HP. It becomes exponentially more expensive for smaller and smaller gains.


----------



## nbrowser

vintagestx said:


> Huge fan of this company and the way they operate. Next amp I buy will be from them for sure.


 

 I'm fairly certain you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Amlalsulami

amlalsulami said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have Bifrost and Lyr 2 so i want to connect them to my AK 120 as a source for music
> Note: My Bifrost it's have just Optical and Cox i didn't upgrade for USB
> ...


 
  
 Anyone Please.


----------



## darinf

> Originally Posted by *Amlalsulami* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hi,
> 
> ...


 
 You can use the optical output of your AK120 and connect that to the optical input of your Bifrost.
  
 You need an optical cable that has a mini plug on one end and a Toslink connector on the other like this:
 http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902
  
 The headphone jack on the AK120 is also an optical output.


----------



## Amlalsulami

darinf said:


> You can use the optical output of your AK120 and connect that to the optical input of your Bifrost.
> 
> You need an optical cable that has a mini plug on one end and a Toslink connector on the other like this:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902
> ...


 
 It's not works !!


----------



## darinf

amlalsulami said:


> It's works, But why the headphone jack must be in AK120 i want use th Lyr 2 is Amp!!


 
 No, no...
  
 Here is how you connect everything:
  
 AK120 --> optical cable --> Bifrost --> Lyr 2 --> Headphones
  
 So you are using the AK120 as a transport/digital source only. Then the Bifrost is your DAC. The Lyr 2 is your amp.
  
 Make sense?


----------



## Amlalsulami

darinf said:


> No, no...
> 
> Here is how you connect everything:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah i do like this but i can't hear anything !!! I try with all my Cans


----------



## Amlalsulami

Lyr 2 Great with He-500 !!! I'm very enjoyable with this combo


----------



## StefanJK

beatswork said:


> It's more evil than that.  You buy a starter Amp/DAC/HP and all are on par. Then you buy a much more expensive HP and realize your AMP/DAC are the limiting factor, so you buy a high end Amp/DAC and then you want an even more expensive HP to pair with them ......  Next thing you know buying an LCD-X seems like a perfectly rationale thing to do.
> 
> But you're right, you will NEVER, unless extremely lucky, get the same "bang for the buck" you got with your 1st $300 when moving to ANY external amp/DAC and decent HP. It becomes exponentially more expensive for smaller and smaller gains.


 
 The Rag is even more evil...it makes the LCD-X that used to run on the $750 Mjolnir sound better and will make the HD800 ($1500, available for less at times...) that would have been bad on the cheaper amp sound good but different.  And it drives speakers ($1500) and has a pre-amp out for subs ($1000 each)...I'm still shocked moving from Mjolnri to Rag made such a difference...Schiit's products are evil cost drivers, the real cost of the Rag is much higher than $1700.


----------



## ThurstonX

amlalsulami said:


> Yeah i do like this but i can't hear anything !!! I try with all my Cans


 
  
 I don't own an AK-120, and I'm not going to do the research for you, but perhaps there's a setting in the AK-120 to enable/disable the optical out.


----------



## Amlalsulami

thurstonx said:


> I don't own an AK-120, and I'm not going to do the research for you, but perhaps there's a setting in the AK-120 to enable/disable the optical out.


 
 I can't find the setting that you said. That's okay
  
 Thanks BTW.


----------



## jsiegel14072

When i plug the AK120 titan into the GLOVEAUDIO A1, it activates the optical out in the (3.5mm plug)  / headphone jack.  works no problem.
 i don't have another optical cable but one is on order


----------



## Amlalsulami

jsiegel14072 said:


> When i plug the AK120 titan into the GLOVEAUDIO A1, it activates the optical out in the (3.5mm plug)  / headphone jack.  works no problem.
> i don't have another optical cable but one is on order




You mean plug the Optical cable into Optical Out or in Optical In? 

Because when i plug the Optical Cable into Optical Out i hear the sound but when i plug into Optical In i can't hear anything


----------



## jsiegel14072

Optical out in in the headphone jack, the other port in optical in if you are using the 120 as a DAC for your computer.
  
 so if you take Mini TosLink to TOXLink cable you should be able to connect it to your amp with optical connection


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

I have never own or demo any AMP/DAC. Is it really a Night & Day differences in sound quality w/ the Magni+Modi for Desktop Computer usage? I don't have a High demanding power Headphone if that matters.


----------



## Zojokkeli

midnightempest said:


> I have never own or demo any AMP/DAC. Is it really a Night & Day differences in sound quality w/ the Magni+Modi for Desktop Computer usage? I don't have a High demanding power Headphone if that matters.


 
  
 The difference is huge, and it doesn't need to be a hard-to-drive headphone, as long as it's a good headphone. The biggest quality leap in my audio journey has been when I went from Nuforce Icon uDAC2 to Schiit Modi+Vali, and I had Sennheiser HD598's back then.


----------



## teofilrocks

midnightempest said:


> I have never own or demo any AMP/DAC. Is it really a Night & Day differences in sound quality w/ the Magni+Modi for Desktop Computer usage? I don't have a High demanding power Headphone if that matters.


 

 Everyone's going to have their own opinion on that, and no one hears exactly what you do. From my experience, though, night & day difference? No. Noticeable? Yes. An improvement? Sometimes for sure, not always. I thought my M50's sounded lousy whether plugged into dac/amp or straight into my MacBook Pro years back. But I thought my HE-400 sounded great out of both, and often used them unamped. So I got rid of the dac and amps I had. My 600-ohm Beyers sounded thin without amping, so that's why I got an Objective amp, and then later moving to the Magni/Modi. It wasn't night & day, but it was a noticeable improvement, and enough for me to personally justify spending $200 on the M&M. But if I ever end up getting my HE-400s again, I wouldn't hesitate to use them unamped.


----------



## Xeculus

My new Modi/Magni came in today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Got it all set up and ready to go, even though I think I didn't apply the stick-on feet perfectly...
  
  
 Now I'm (im)patiently waiting on the HD650's to show up!


----------



## money4me247

stefanjk said:


> The Rag is even more evil...it makes the LCD-X that used to run on the $750 Mjolnir sound better and will make the HD800 ($1500, available for less at times...) that would have been bad on the cheaper amp sound good but different.  And it drives speakers ($1500) and has a pre-amp out for subs ($1000 each)...I'm still shocked moving from Mjolnri to Rag made such a difference...Schiit's products are evil cost drivers, *the real cost of the Rag is much higher than $1700.*




lol schiit is a business, so if the real cost of Rag was greater than their sale price.... they wld b bankrupt very quickly. hahahah


----------



## StefanJK

money4me247 said:


> lol schiit is a business, so if the real cost of Rag was greater than their sale price.... they wld b bankrupt very quickly. hahahah


 
 Not true for all businesses...Schiit as Amazon...also costly for me.


----------



## swspiers

money4me247 said:


> lol schiit is a business, so if the real cost of Rag was greater than their sale price.... they wld b bankrupt very quickly. hahahah




Read it again. You might have missed the point


----------



## dpaton

swspiers said:


> Read it again. You might have missed the point


 
 I'm sure money4me247 did not miss the point ("hahahah" = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)!


----------



## adamaley

I'll just put this here:
  
 http://schiit.com/products


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi




----------



## nbrowser

midnightempest said:


> I have never own or demo any AMP/DAC. Is it really a Night & Day differences in sound quality w/ the Magni+Modi for Desktop Computer usage? I don't have a High demanding power Headphone if that matters.


 

 I thought headphone amps were bunk n all considering I have two easy to drive pairs of cans, Sony MDR-1R and Senn HD477, now either can be sent easily to earbleed levels by an iPhone but both came alive with the insertion of my Asgard 2 into the chain. Either will still go to earbleed levels however with much more detail and substance to the sound. Whatever music I've thrown specifically the higher end Sony cans has sounded just that much better. Granted the Asgard 2 is on a different level than Magni is. it was the driver behind Schiit redesigning the original Asgard, it was close enough in performance. Buy with confidence if you decide to go with a Modi/Magni combo, both are solid products. Just like the rest of the Schiit line up.


----------



## LaPierre

The Fulla was released, in case you guys weren't yet aware.

 http://schiit.com/products/fulla


----------



## money4me247

teofilrocks said:


> Everyone's going to have their own opinion on that, and no one hears exactly what you do. From my experience, though, night & day difference? No. Noticeable? Yes. An improvement? Sometimes for sure, not always. I thought my M50's sounded lousy whether plugged into dac/amp or straight into my MacBook Pro years back. But I thought my HE-400 sounded great out of both, and often used them unamped. So I got rid of the dac and amps I had. My 600-ohm Beyers sounded thin without amping, so that's why I got an Objective amp, and then later moving to the Magni/Modi. It wasn't night & day, but it was a noticeable improvement, and enough for me to personally justify spending $200 on the M&M. But if I ever end up getting my HE-400s again, I wouldn't hesitate to use them unamped.


 
 +1. I think this. (tho I do disagree with the HE-400 assessment though. I personally found that they did in fact improve with amping.)
  
 not a "night-and-day slash omg these sound like new headphones" difference, but can be an some improvements with certain headphones. however, with some headphones amping does not really have any difference at all (usually the low impedance headphones or headphones designed for portable usage). the amount of difference noticed with a dac depends on the quality of your current sound processor.
  
 do note that subtle changes in volume can cause perceived quality improvements, so sometimes people who amp just have it louder when amped & that is where the sound quality improvements are perceived.
  
 If budget or value is a concern, consider that you can get quality entry level amps or dacs for $100 each. fiio does have some combo products under that price range and the new schitt fulla is $79 for a combo. a semi inexpensive way to dip your toes into the waters if you are interested


----------



## gmazz

Fulla looks interesting. Will be looking for some reviews soon.


----------



## amalgamist

lapierre said:


> The Fulla was released, in case you guys weren't yet aware.
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/fulla


 
  
 Very cool, looking forward to reviews on this


----------



## Amlalsulami

jsiegel14072 said:


> Optical out in in the headphone jack, the other port in optical in if you are using the 120 as a DAC for your computer.
> 
> so if you take Mini TosLink to TOXLink cable you should be able to connect it to your amp with optical connection


 
 I connect the Bifrost to AK120 into Optical Out and it's works and i can't play 192Khz, The limit i play is 176.4Khz over 176.4Khz i can't hear anything, Why?


----------



## Defiant00

amlalsulami said:


> I connect the Bifrost to AK120 into Optical Out and it's works and i can't play 192Khz, The limit i play is 176.4Khz over 176.4Khz i can't hear anything, Why?


 
  
 Might be your cable (either the length or quality); apparently 192 is fairly cable-dependent for optical connections.


----------



## Amlalsulami

defiant00 said:


> Might be your cable (either the length or quality); apparently 192 is fairly cable-dependent for optical connections.




Are you sure about that? If you sure i will buy another cable with a good quality


----------



## Defiant00

amlalsulami said:


> Are you sure about that? If you sure i will buy another cable with a good quality


 
  
 Well, the AK120 and Bifrost both support 24/192. I've also seen comments that 24/192 is pushing the limit of the optical connection, so you have to have a good (and probably short) optical cable to get it to consistently work.
  
 With that said, it wouldn't hurt to:
 1) Email Schiit and see what they say.
 2) See if anyone else has experienced the same, maybe on the AK120 thread?
  
 While I did have a Bifrost for a while, I rarely used the optical connection, so this is all secondhand information. With that said, yes, I'd say I'm pretty sure that that's the likely cause. I'd just also encourage you to try and verify with others before spending money


----------



## Amlalsulami

defiant00 said:


> Well, the AK120 and Bifrost both support 24/192. I've also seen comments that 24/192 is pushing the limit of the optical connection, so you have to have a good (and probably short) optical cable to get it to consistently work.
> 
> With that said, it wouldn't hurt to:
> 1) Email Schiit and see what they say.
> ...


 
 This is my cable i used
  
 http://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-Digital-Optical-Audio-Toslink/dp/B005LJQMZC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417795298&sr=8-2&keywords=optical+cable
  
 I think i'm going to buy with a Good Q


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

there's the problem, it's toslink


----------



## Amlalsulami

blackenedplague said:


> there's the problem, it's toslink


 
 If the problem from the toslink i want buy this one, Cost about $60 but i'm afraid the problem it's not from the cable and i have spend $60 for nothing
 http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

amlalsulami said:


> If the problem from the toslink i want buy this one, Cost about $60 but i'm afraid the problem it's not from the cable and i have spend $60 for nothing
> http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html


 
  
 From what I have heard, glass optical has more bandwidth, also this guy has that cable and it works for him


----------



## Amlalsulami

blackenedplague said:


> From what I have heard, glass optical has more bandwidth, also this guy has that cable and it works for him


 
 Let me tell you, I try my Bifrost with my Macbook pro and it's work with files 192Khz (With my optical cable the cheap one)


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> there's the problem, it's toslink


 
 I've used the below with my Bifrost to connect to many different sources. Never had an issue.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005M4IWNQ
 The web page for the AK120 doesn't say much on the connection other than optical. I'm sure that Amlalsulami would have noticed if he needed a mini connection at the AK120.


----------



## StanD

amlalsulami said:


> Let me tell you, I try my Bifrost with my Macbook pro and it's work with files 192Khz (With my optical cable the cheap one)


 
 Did you connect your Bifrost to the proper input using that pushbutton on the front panel?
 Oops, never mind, you are getting sound at below 192.


----------



## Amlalsulami

stand said:


> Did you connect your Bifrost to the proper input using that pushbutton on the front panel?
> Oops, never mind, you are getting sound at below 192.


 
 I don't know what is the problem is from my cable or my AK120 !!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I use a monoprice optical cable from my computer to my receiver and it can play 192 (though not 88.2 or 176.4)
  
  
 how compressed are the files? Or are they WAV?


----------



## Amlalsulami

Sorry now i try 192Khz with my Bifrost and Macbook pro i hear a lot of noise !! Under 192Khz i can't hear any noise just in 192Khz


----------



## ThurstonX

amlalsulami said:


> Sorry now i try 192Khz with my Bifrost and Macbook pro i hear a lot of noise !! Under 192Khz i can't hear any noise just in 192Khz


 
  
 StanD gave you a link to a fine, inexpensive option to try *before* you go splashing out $60+ for something you're not sure will work.  Might be worth giving that a shot.  FWIW, I like the build and quality of the analog Mediabridge cable I have.


----------



## Amlalsulami

thurstonx said:


> StanD gave you a link to a fine, inexpensive option to try *before* you go splashing out $60+ for something you're not sure will work.  Might be worth giving that a shot.  FWIW, I like the build and quality of the analog Mediabridge cable I have.


 
 Your right, But i'm wondering about what is the problem?


----------



## teofilrocks

amlalsulami said:


> Your right, But i'm wondering about what is the problem?




Have you emailed Schiit yet?


----------



## Amlalsulami

teofilrocks said:


> Have you emailed Schiit yet?


 
 Not yet !!


----------



## teofilrocks

amlalsulami said:


> Not yet !!




Email them.


----------



## money4me247

thurstonx said:


> StanD gave you a link to a fine, inexpensive option to try *before* you go splashing out $60+ for something you're not sure will work.  Might be worth giving that a shot.  FWIW, I like the build and quality of the analog Mediabridge cable I have.


 
  
 i've never had any issues with the very inexpensive monoprice cables.


----------



## hodgjy

Digital cables either work or they don't. I suspect the DAP has some sort of problem exporting 24/192 files.


----------



## Amlalsulami

hodgjy said:


> Digital cables either work or they don't. I suspect the DAP has some sort of problem exporting 24/192 files.




I don't think so, Because i run 192Khz files with AK120 and Micro iDSD it's works perfectly


----------



## crf1986

My Schiit finally showed up today!  Foobar -> Wyrd -> Bifrost Uber -> Asgard 2 -> HD650's.  So far I am blown away!


----------



## teofilrocks

crf1986 said:


> My Schiit finally showed up today!  Foobar -> Wyrd -> Bifrost Uber -> Asgard 2 -> HD650's.  So far I am blown away!


 
  
 Any thoughts on Wyrd? Mine showed up at the office while I was out, won't try it until Monday. I do notice that my Magni needs to be turned up higher when using my M&M stack at work on an iMac than when using my MacBook Pro at home. Wonder if the Wyrd will change that.


----------



## hodgjy

teofilrocks said:


> Any thoughts on Wyrd? Mine showed up at the office while I was out, won't try it until Monday. I do notice that my Magni needs to be turned up higher when using my M&M stack at work on an iMac than when using my MacBook Pro at home. Wonder if the Wyrd will change that.


 
 I imagine the volume difference is due to a software setting in the computer controlling the sound volume.


----------



## crf1986

The Asgard 2 and Bifrost are an upgrade from my Fiio e7/e9 combo.  With Windows 8.1 I was getting glitches and connectivity issues every once in a while due to port power management.  Wyrd corrected my problem.  I personally didn't detect any sonic changes with the e7/e9 and haven't tried the bifrost/asgard without it.  As far as your volume issue is concerned, I honestly have no idea if it will help.  Good luck!


teofilrocks said:


> Any thoughts on Wyrd? Mine showed up at the office while I was out, won't try it until Monday. I do notice that my Magni needs to be turned up higher when using my M&M stack at work on an iMac than when using my MacBook Pro at home. Wonder if the Wyrd will change that.


----------



## teofilrocks

hodgjy said:


> I imagine the volume difference is due to a software setting in the computer controlling the sound volume.


 

 Even over USB to the Modi? I don't recall.


----------



## hodgjy

teofilrocks said:


> Even over USB to the Modi? I don't recall.


 
 The computer controls the digital volume over USB.


----------



## teofilrocks

hodgjy said:


> The computer controls the digital volume over USB.



Ah ok. And it's possible it's a Windows/OSX thing, too. I'm running Boot Camp on the iMac.


----------



## Amalz

Hi
  
 I plug my Bifrost in my PC with Optical cable and show me just ( 2channel, 24bit, 96000 Hz ) i Can't find 192Khz
 Is this from my optical cable?


----------



## StanD

amalz said:


> Hi
> 
> I plug my Bifrost in my PC with Optical cable and show me just ( 2channel, 24bit, 96000 Hz ) i Can't find 192Khz
> Is this from my optical cable?


 
 Perhaps your player software is set to downsample to 96k. Do you have drivers for your optical out? If so there may be settings for the output resolution in the drivers.


----------



## Amalz

stand said:


> Perhaps your player software is set to downsample to 96k. Do you have drivers for your optical out? If so there may be settings for the output resolution in the drivers.


 
 I use Foobar2000 and What you mean drivers for optical out?


----------



## StanD

amalz said:


> I use Foobar2000 and What you mean drivers for optical out?


 
 If your PC has hardware for optical out, there must be device drivers for it.
  
 When you have everything hooked up, look in Control Panel->Sound for your optical playback device. Click on your device and then click on the properties button.
 On the next popup, check the supported formats tab. That's where I can select sample rates on my PC.
  
 You might check Foobar200's preferences->Playback->output. I'm not sure if you'll find anything there.


----------



## Amalz

stand said:


> If your PC has hardware for optical out, there must be device drivers for it.
> 
> When you have everything hooked up, look in Control Panel->Sound for your optical playback device. Click on your device and then click on the properties button.
> On the next popup, check the supported formats tab. That's where I can select sample rates on my PC.
> ...


 
 Your right my sound card it's a max 96Hz !!!
 Thanks


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> If your PC has hardware for optical out, there must be device drivers for it.
> 
> When you have everything hooked up, look in Control Panel->Sound for your optical playback device. Click on your device and then click on the properties button.
> On the next popup, check the supported formats tab. That's where I can select sample rates on my PC.
> ...


 
  
  


amalz said:


> Your right my sound card it's a max 96Hz !!!
> Thanks


 
 At least you can stop chasing that ghost. 96K isn't all that bad either.


----------



## jaywillin

i'm in a little schiit now, got this little pile (vali/modi/wyrd) to take over duties of the woo wa6se ans the wadia 121 while i await the arrival of my geek pulse x/f/i. 
 the sound coming from this set up is great, at any price really. is it as good as what it replaced ? not in absolute terms, but it's a lot closer
 in sound quality than you'd think than any setup costing just over $300 should come to the woo wadia duo !


----------



## huberd

I agree, I have a Loki, Asgard2, Hifiman HE-400 and IFI power supply for just a few hundred bucks I can blow away setups costing a grand. Oh and I changed the Headphone ear pads with the Denon D-2000 leather pads. Much improved bass, focus and sound. I am amazed.


----------



## Pirakaphile

So now that I'm ready to blow away my wallet this krismas and get some HiFiMAN HE-500 cans, I'm wondering if I should invest that kind of money in an amp. On the numbers, Magni has the power, accuracy, and neutrality that I'll never need to upgrade, but I want an amp that'll give me a truly end-game performance with the HE-500s, and any subsequent purchase I make further in the future. 
I've been looking at the Valhalla and Lyr, since I think I want to get into tubes anyway, and even if I don't like em, I can always just sell them back on here and get the Asgard, or just stay with the Modi. 

I was wondering, will getting one of Schiit's more expensive amps affect the quality of sound on high-end cans over the Magni? And if so, is the $100 difference worth it for the Lyr over the Valhalla? And.. Why does Lyr only have two tubes. 

And I'm not looking to get another DAC. From what I understand, Modi has more performance than I'll ever even use, and there should be absolutely no sound change between the Modi and any other high-performing DAC on the planet. 

Danke, and chill out cool cats.


----------



## jexby

pirakaphile said:


> So now that I'm ready to blow away my wallet this krismas and get some HiFiMAN HE-500 cans, I'm wondering if I should invest that kind of money in an amp. On the numbers, Magni has the power, accuracy, and neutrality that I'll never need to upgrade, but I want an amp that'll give me a truly end-game performance with the HE-500s, and any subsequent purchase I make further in the future.
> I've been looking at the Valhalla and Lyr, since I think I want to get into tubes anyway, and even if I don't like em, I can always just sell them back on here and get the Asgard, or just stay with the Modi.
> 
> I was wondering, will getting one of Schiit's more expensive amps affect the quality of sound on high-end cans over the Magni? And if so, is the $100 difference worth it for the Lyr over the Valhalla? And.. Why does Lyr only have two tubes.
> ...


 
  
 since you are trying to arrive near/at end-game quickly:
  
 with headphones like HE-500, you skip the Valhalla because it doesn't deliver the current that planar headphones crave.
  
 Lyr 2 vs. Magni ?
 for me this is a no contest in terms of sound quality, and sonic improvements can be improved with better tubes in the future.
 Lyr 2 only has 2 tubes, 1 for left and 1 for right channel.
 then all the power gain is done via non-tube Schiit magick that you can read about on their web site.
  
 your comment of "no sound change between Modi and other high-performing DAC on the planet?"
 Not true.
 but the differences also might be slight enough that you don't care, can't hear them, don't want improved USB filtering or digital filters or want a dual-mono DAC.
 but to call Modi a DAC "end game" for yourself is fine.  just not for the rest of us.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'll let every else attempt to answer these FAQs now....


----------



## Pirakaphile

jexby said:


> since you are trying to arrive near/at end-game quickly:
> 
> with headphones like HE-500, you skip the Valhalla because it doesn't deliver the current that planar headphones crave.
> 
> ...



This is gonna be a purchase I'll make in.. Well, probably 2-3 years from now, since $400 on the headphones is going to be a big lump of cash, so I'll be using the Magni/Modi for em until then. 

Better tubes, ungh.. Can't wait for that. 

Ah, so Valhallia uses the extra two tubes for power?

Sorry, I had just read a bunch of the Schiit FAQ and was in the mood to sound like that.  I really haven't done my research on DACs yet, and I'm trying to convince myself that I won't need another one. I'll probably get the Bifrost in another.. 6 years? Or something, after realising that my setup can become even more expensive. I'll thank myself after the purchases, just like I did after the Magni/Modi


----------



## Chozart

The Valhalla is a pure tube amp in every stage of it's amplification. As such, it cannot deliver the current needed for your HifiMan's or other Planar Magnetic headphones. The Lyr, however, is a 'hybrid' amp, which is a combination of a tubes and  solid stage (mosfet). The solid stage provides the necessary current for Planar Magnetics, while the tubes used in the signal path still give you what sweet tube sound.
  
 So yes, the Valhalla has two extra tubes for power, while the Lyr has a solid state section to generate power. It's easier for a solid state design to generate more power. If they'd design a 100% tube amp with the power required for Planar Magnetics, you'll be talking serious money.
  
 I'd say it's Lyr2 or Asgard2 where it's at for you regarding your amp choice.
  
 DAC's do matter. I am using an Bifrost connected to my computer with a coaxial digital cable. It sings beautifully with my Asgard2 and my HifiMan HE400's or Beyerdynamic Tesla T1's


----------



## teofilrocks

hodgjy said:


> I imagine the volume difference is due to a software setting in the computer controlling the sound volume.


 
 Added the Wyrd to my setup and it does indeed affect volume level. Have my Magni set to ~9 o'clock now, where before I had to set it at ~11 o'clock to get the same volume level.


----------



## Pirakaphile

chozart said:


> The Valhalla is a pure tube amp in every stage of it's amplification. As such, it cannot deliver the current needed for your HifiMan's or other Planar Magnetic headphones. The Lyr, however, is a 'hybrid' amp, which is a combination of a tubes and  solid stage (mosfet). The solid stage provides the necessary current for Planar Magnetics, while the tubes used in the signal path still give you what sweet tube sound.
> 
> So yes, the Valhalla has two extra tubes for power, while the Lyr has a solid state section to generate power. It's easier for a solid state design to generate more power. If they'd design a 100% tube amp with the power required for Planar Magnetics, you'll be talking serious money.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm looking at Bifrost with the usb, but I'm almost fairly certain I don't want the uber analog stage, due to its cost and the fact that the Bifrost should perform perfectly for my needs without anything other than the usb option, since I don't run anything over 16/44.1. 
  
 Also, there is a $100 difference between the Lyr and Lyr2, but should I save up the extra money for the 2 over the original? Are the benefits worth the money?


----------



## john57

teofilrocks said:


> Added the Wyrd to my setup and it does indeed affect volume level. Have my Magni set to ~9 o'clock now, where before I had to set it at ~11 o'clock to get the same volume level.


 
 That is interesting since volume control is done by computer code not by level changes. I noticed that Schit is no longer using the word "Decrappifier" in their web page.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Word cannot affect volume level. It simply repeats the packets. Receiving packets, changing volume level, and repackaging for USB output would require an embedded computer with much higher capability than Wyrd.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. 16/44.1 , 
  
 Good Man , Red Book is outstanding , that higher stuff is the same stuff in a much larger Box with a much higher price requiring much greater storage Capacities .  
  
 Of Course , you and I are accepting the Pro-Audio Mastering Studio's reality in favor of the Sizzle from the Audiophile Press and Marketing People that are trying , successfully , to drain everyones Wallet into their's .
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## teofilrocks

john57 said:


> That is interesting since volume control is done by computer code not by level changes. I noticed that Schit is no longer using the word "Decrappifier" in their web page.


 
  
 Another thing I noticed is that the metal doesn't match my Schiit stack. I bought the Modi/Magni when they first came out, and apparently they changed the finish on the small chassis sometime during the production timeline. So the Wyrd is rougher and a bit darker. I hate stuff like that, almost but not quite matching..


----------



## Pirakaphile

tonykaz said:


> Mr. 16/44.1 ,
> 
> Good Man , Red Book is outstanding , that higher stuff is the same stuff in a much larger Box with a much higher price requiring much greater storage Capacities .
> 
> ...


 
 I just remember reading something on an audio science article that most music didn't even take up 16 bits of information, so I figured CDs are the way to go. Besides, my dumb macbook can't read anything other than cds and dvds anyway, and I don't like downloading massive amounts of music online, since if my computer crashes, I won't have the hard copy to retrieve the recordings from. 
 I don't fault others for wanting higher bitrate music, but I just don't think I personally need any more fidelity out of my music. I get plenty emotion out of 16 bits.


----------



## ThurstonX

teofilrocks said:


> Another thing I noticed is that the metal doesn't match my Schiit stack. I bought the Modi/Magni when they first came out, and apparently they changed the finish on the small chassis sometime during the production timeline. So the Wyrd is rougher and a bit darker. I hate stuff like that, almost but not quite matching..


 
  
 Perhaps you can put the Wyrd in the middle of the triple stack.  Then, at least, there's some sort of pattern that you might live with.  But yeah, that is annoying.


----------



## BeatsWork

thurstonx said:


> Perhaps you can put the Wyrd in the middle of the triple stack.  Then, at least, there's some sort of pattern that you might live with.  But yeah, that is annoying.




What kind of solution is that? Clearly we need a mod to repaint. Or perhaps specific lighting which obscures variations. 

And thanks Teo, now I'm going to have to look when I get home but hadn't notice mismatch between Wyrd/Gungnir/Mjolnir - nothing a couple glasses of Malbec can't fix.


----------



## BeatsWork

tonykaz said:


> Mr. 16/44.1 ,
> 
> Good Man , Red Book is outstanding , that higher stuff is the same stuff in a much larger Box with a much higher price requiring much greater storage Capacities .
> 
> ...




Up vote. There's a fine line between maximizing your gear and obsessing about the process. Reminds me a bit of PC overclocking hobbyists where the whole exercise becomes benchmark scores as opposed to whether those numbers have any real world benefits. If that's your passion that's fine but I'm personally more interested in enjoying the experience than obsessing about minute improvements and training myself to notice imperfections.


----------



## ThurstonX

beatswork said:


> What kind of solution is that? Clearly we need a mod to repaint. Or perhaps specific lighting which obscures variations.
> 
> And thanks Teo, now I'm going to have to look when I get home but hadn't notice mismatch between Wyrd/Gungnir/Mjolnir - nothing a couple glasses of Malbec can't fix.


 
  
 You're right!  Almost.  I'm getting out the sandpaper as I type (now *that's* talent! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ).  All my Schiit will be equal, even if I have to sand them down to 1 mm thickness!  Something about a hatchet, an axe and a saw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My SYS matches the Bifrost on which it sits.  The SYS was purchased 10 months or so after the Bifrost.
  
 Right on with the Malbec.  Just about to head to Wegmans to pick up a couple bottles.


----------



## teofilrocks

thurstonx said:


> You're right!  Almost.  I'm getting out the sandpaper as I type (now *that's* talent!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If I stand 6 feet away from it, I can't see the color difference as much, just the difference in the reflection highlight smoothness (I'm a 3D artist, I can't help but notice those kinds of things). Have fun with the sandpaper and booze, I'm not that adventurous! Just a minor DIYer.


----------



## LaPierre

Does anyone have both experience with the Asgard 2 and the Valhalla 2? I want to get one for christmas, I'll likely be buying the Sony MDR-MA900 and I currently own the A900x and JVC FX850 (fairly sensitive IEM that picks up noise from Fiio X3). The MA900 is low impedance, I think 12 ohms and the JVCs are 16 ohms with 106db/mw sensitivity. Is the Valhalla suitable for two low impedance headphones, and if it is does it offer improvements over the Asgard? I really want a tube amp, the lovely orange glow is beautiful. I could always get a different headphone than the MA900 though, I'd like to hear thoughts if anyone is willing to chime in. Asgard 2 vs Valhalla 2.


----------



## reddog

lapierre said:


> Does anyone have both experience with the Asgard 2 and the Valhalla 2? I want to get one for christmas, I'll likely be buying the Sony MDR-MA900 and I currently own the A900x and JVC FX850 (fairly sensitive IEM that picks up noise from Fiio X3). The MA900 is low impedance, I think 12 ohms and the JVCs are 16 ohms with 106db/mw sensitivity. Is the Valhalla suitable for two low impedance headphones, and if it is does it offer improvements over the Asgard? I really want a tube amp, the lovely orange glow is beautiful. I could always get a different headphone than the MA900 though, I'd like to hear thoughts if anyone is willing to chime in. Asgard 2 vs Valhalla 2.



For the type of headphones you are using, I would go for the Valhalla 2 amp.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.16/44.1 ,
  
 Quite True , the Mastering Studios keep it below 16 bits because if it ever hits 16 Bits the Recorder will go into digital Clipping ( not the actual name which I can't seem to recall just now ) which ruins everything ,  Digital Clipping is a Crash Event .   They will routinely stay under 14 bits , which is 84db of dynamic range .   Trying to play 84db of dynamic range with a Consumer System where the ambient noise floor is 50-65 db and the low starting point for low level listening typically begins would result in blowing your Voice coils to smithereens , in short order .  
   To reproduce 84 db range you'd need a Genelec 8050 monitor system with it's matching Subwoofer , probably totaling 1,200 Watts of RMS , then you'd have a 120db+ capability at 1M , half field . I am aware of no Consumer Equipment with this capability !  
  24 Bits ( of 24/96 ) provide a dynamic range of 144db .  No Equipment in existence can reproduce 144 db !  I think the record is about 132 db as of today .   Jason Stoddard of Schiit did some research on this , he reports the sound level of Flash Grenades being a bit higher in db than 144 , if that is helpful in some way .   
 24/96 is the Standard for the Movie Industry , they do soundtracks in Theaters , Chase Scenes , Buss Explosions , Hilocopter gun ships exploding in mid-air and the like . 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## LaPierre

reddog said:


> For the type of headphones you are using, I would go for the Valhalla 2 amp.


 
 Even despite their low impedance? 3.5 ohms out x6 = 21, that's a little bit more than the JVC's 16 ohms and MA900s 12, though I'm not sure the MA900s are 12 ohms without their impedance compensation circuit or whatever it's called. Does the x6 output impedance rule even matter that much? I really do like the Valhalla 2, beautiful looks and names and as a Schiit product I trust its performance.


----------



## reddog

lapierre said:


> Even despite their low impedance? 3.5 ohms out x6 = 21, that's a little bit more than the JVC's 16 ohms and MA900s 12, though I'm not sure the MA900s are 12 ohms without their impedance compensation circuit or whatever it's called. Does the x6 output impedance rule even matter that much? I really do like the Valhalla 2, beautiful looks and names and as a Schiit product I trust its performance.



The Valhalla 2 is a beautiful piece of Schiit, the four tubes glowing in a dark room, must be nice to behold.


----------



## ThurstonX

teofilrocks said:


> If I stand 6 feet away from it, I can't see the color difference as much, just the difference in the reflection highlight smoothness (I'm a 3D artist, I can't help but notice those kinds of things). Have fun with the sandpaper and booze, I'm not that adventurous! Just a minor DIYer.


 
  
 And I'm a terrible kidder who couldn't resist.  Plus I got to insert a Rush reference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I still say put the odd colored/finished unit in the middle of the stack.


----------



## BeatsWork

@ThurstonX  Found Rangy's new cans.  Should pair well with Lyr
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-Monitoring-Isodynamic-Planar-Magnetic-Headphones-6-Ohms-Kiev-Ukraine-/251741393328?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item3a9cf4d1b0


----------



## ThurstonX

beatswork said:


> @ThurstonX  Found Rangy's new cans.  Should pair well with Lyr
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Handmade-Monitoring-Isodynamic-Planar-Magnetic-Headphones-6-Ohms-Kiev-Ukraine-/251741393328?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item3a9cf4d1b0


 
  
 He is gonna be one happy Lab worker come Christmas


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> He is gonna be one happy Lab worker come Christmas


 
 Be a sport get the fuzzy one a Rag for XMAS.


----------



## Xeculus

Anyone think the M/M stack could drive a LCD-2 or 3 well?


----------



## RRod

xeculus said:


> Anyone think the M/M stack could drive a LCD-2 or 3 well?


 
  
 Both should work.


----------



## Xeculus

rrod said:


> Both should work.


 
  
 +1, thanks!


----------



## RRod

p.s. http://www.audiobot9000.com/


----------



## Chozart

pirakaphile said:


> I'm looking at Bifrost with the usb, but I'm almost fairly certain I don't want the uber analog stage, due to its cost and the fact that the Bifrost should perform perfectly for my needs without anything other than the usb option, since I don't run anything over 16/44.1.
> 
> Also, there is a $100 difference between the Lyr and Lyr2, but should I save up the extra money for the 2 over the original? Are the benefits worth the money?


 
  
  
 Read the current chapter of Jason's story (link on main page of HeadFi). It's quite informative about the differenced between the Lyr and the Lyr2. It leads me to conclude that it's worth to get the Lyr2 over the Lyr.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Be a sport get the fuzzy one a Rag for XMAS.


 
  
 I don't think my would-be-ex-wife's ring would fit on his finger


----------



## tonykaz

Mr. Chozart ,
  
 You are right on that , he rather tore up the original Lyr , bet you could buy one cheap on Ebay now that they are officially horrible . 
  
 Bet they aren't all that bad though , probably they just needed to make the entire trilogy Name Compliant .   Continuity is a good thing , updating them all is a good thing , all in lock-step , it's good business and probably didn't cost anything .
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> He is gonna be one happy Lab worker come Christmas


 
  
  


stand said:


> Be a sport get the fuzzy one a Rag for XMAS.


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> I don't think my would-be-ex-wife's ring would fit on his finger


 
 And I wouldn't get a Schiit Rag for my wife either, it's not made to be on a finger.
 My wife listens to streaming music on her smartphone. I got her a decent pair of IEMs. If she gets the audio bug, my wallet is in for a bad ride.


----------



## Defiant00

lapierre said:


> Even despite their low impedance? 3.5 ohms out x6 = 21, that's a little bit more than the JVC's 16 ohms and MA900s 12, though I'm not sure the MA900s are 12 ohms without their impedance compensation circuit or whatever it's called. Does the x6 output impedance rule even matter that much? I really do like the Valhalla 2, beautiful looks and names and as a Schiit product I trust its performance.


 
  
 I haven't tried them with the Valhalla 2, but the MA900 works very well with the Asgard 2.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> And I wouldn't get a Schiit Rag for my wife either, it's not made to be on a finger.
> My wife listens to streaming music on her smartphone. I got her a decent pair of IEMs. If she gets the audio bug, my wallet is in for a bad ride.


 
  
 Hmmm, think you missed the joke.  A Rag for Rangy equals divorce.  I assume I'd be left with an extra ring, which is unlikely to fit Rangy's finger.  But I would buy a Rag for the wife in a heart beat, as it'd be me using it 99.9% of the time.  "Of *course* it's a good investment, dear!  Merry Christmas!"


----------



## teofilrocks

thurstonx said:


> Hmmm, think you missed the joke.  A Rag for Rangy equals divorce.  I assume I'd be left with an extra ring, which is unlikely to fit Rangy's finger.  But I would buy a Rag for the wife in a heart beat, as it'd be me using it 99.9% of the time.  "Of *course* it's a good investment, dear!  Merry Christmas!"


 
  
 I think at best you'd end up with half the ring (and possibly half the Rag, as well).


----------



## madwolfa

teofilrocks said:


> (and possibly half the Rag, as well).


 
  
 Luckily it would still work in single ended setup.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Luckily it would still work in single ended setup.


 
 And he would be single, once again, and penniless without half his Schiit.


----------



## teofilrocks

madwolfa said:


> Luckily it would still work in single ended setup.


 
  
 Lol, well played


----------



## jsiegel14072

teofilrocks said:


> I think at best you'd end up with half the ring (and possibly half the Rag, as well).


 

 In my state, the ex would have the ring, the lawyer the Good Schiit and he would have the bills


----------



## StanD

jsiegel14072 said:


> In my state, the ex would have the ring, the lawyer the Good Schiit and he would have the bills


 
 He would end up penniless and Fulla Schiit.


----------



## jsiegel14072

More likely penniless and scared Schiit-less


----------



## StanD

Looks like Thurston started a Schiit Storm.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Looks like Thurston started a Schiit Storm.


 
  
 Speaking of which, my schiity ol' HE-500s are kickin' up a major Schiit Storm on my schiity ol' Lyr with some schiity 'D' getter Amperex 6922s crica 1960 (Made in the USA, b'yatch; yeah, they're the schiit), crankin' out some schiity English psychedelic garage rock circa 2014.  This is some time travelin', daisy trippin', mind blowin' schiit.
  
 Lyr 2?  Lyr who?  I'm sick of this schiit.  I'm off to the Schiity Wok for some grub.
  
 *Droppin' the Schiity Mic right on my Wyrd-less Schiit[y] Bifrost*
  
  
  
  
  
  
 I do love this Schiit


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Speaking of which, my schiity ol' HE-500s are kickin' up a major Schiit Storm on my schiity ol' Lyr with some schiity 'D' getter Amperex 6922s crica 1960 (Made in the USA, b'yatch; yeah, they're the schiit), crankin' out some schiity English psychedelic garage rock circa 2014.  This is some time travelin', daisy trippin', mind blowin' schiit.
> 
> Lyr 2?  Lyr who?  I'm sick of this schiit.  I'm off to the Schiity Wok for some grub.
> 
> ...


 
 You're freak'in out, starting to remind me of some guy from The Netherlands with a capacitor in his pocket. At least you're having a blast without meds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't worry, Rangy is watching over you, with a dart (sedation) gun in hand.


----------



## Guidostrunk

You guys are hilarious! Lol 





stand said:


> You're freak'in out, starting to remind me of some guy from The Netherlands with a capacitor in his pocket. At least you're having a blast without meds.   Don't worry, Rangy is watching over you, with a dart (sedation) gun in hand.


----------



## huberd

You will be better served with the Asgard2. The Valhalla won't work well with low impedance phones or orthos. The Asgard2 can drive anything just ask Jason from Schiit he will say the same thing.


----------



## StanD

huberd said:


> You will be better served with the Asgard2. The Valhalla won't work well with low impedance phones or orthos. The Asgard2 can drive anything just ask Jason from Schiit he will say the same thing.


 
 Rangy and I agree, the Valhalla 2 (Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 180mW RMS per channel) is best used with high impedance cans. An Asgard 2 or Lyr 2 is better at powering this train. I've been using an Asgard 2 with my HE-500's and I can say, it's some baad Schiit.


----------



## huberd

Why did he carry a capacitor in his pocket? That seems kind of odd.


----------



## StanD

huberd said:


> Why did he carry a capacitor in his pocket? That seems kind of odd.


 
 Why not? Ringo had a hole in his pocket in a yellow submarine on the sea of green. This is small change.
 Actually I was referring to someone that is into having capacitor overkill in the power supply of his headphone amp. Bless his heart.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I have been working too hard, Stan D, have you stolen Rangy??? Is that a capacitor in your pocket, or are you glad too see me.......cue the drum roll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....Where is Thurston and what have you and Rangy done with him?


----------



## ThurstonX

huberd said:


> Why did he carry a capacitor in his pocket? That seems kind of odd.


 
  
 It wasn't really a cap, he was just so happy to see @StanD  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Dammit, Wildcat, you were supposed to wait for me!  j/k 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Welcome back to the asylum, brother.  Your rubber room is ready for you, and just like you left it... except that mess Rangy left in the corner.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I have heard that @stanD has that effect on capacitors........good thing it wasn't an 845 Tube in his pocket


----------



## ThurstonX

Well, seems I'm in some deep(er) Schiit now... wife just ordered me a Wyrd.  Yeah, she, too, is down with this Schiit, and an absolute _*mensch*_.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

She is a Keeper, you will love the Wyrd, the noise floor is lowered having a very positive impact HP listening and that ain't no gruber...


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> I have heard that @stanD has that effect on capacitors........good thing it wasn't an 845 Tube in his pocket


 
 I'm into Trans Sisters but if a big pair of tubes comes by I'll have to give them some consideration. You people are getting Wyrd.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> I'm into Trans Sisters but if a big pair of tubes comes by I'll have to give them some consideration. You people are getting Wyrd.


 
 (rim shot !!)


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> She is a Keeper, you will love the Wyrd, the noise floor is lowered having a very positive impact HP listening and that ain't no gruber...


 
  
 That got a smile from her 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Which DAC are you using; Gungnir?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thurstonx said:


> That got a smile from her
> 
> Which DAC are you using; Gungnir?




I am using a Bifrost Über or a Cambridge Azur 650 BD directly to my Lyr 2. I now have used the Wyrd between the Bifrost and an ASUS/MacBook Pro. The difference with the ASUS is dramatic, a bit more subtle with the Mac. 

Glad to make your lovely Bride smile, she does have to put up with Rangy and the Laboratory...


----------



## swspiers

wildcatsare1 said:


> I am using a Bifrost Über or a Cambridge Azur 650 BD directly to my Lyr 2. I now have used the Wyrd between the Bifrost and an ASUS/MacBook Pro. The difference with the ASUS is dramatic, a bit more subtle with the Mac.
> 
> Glad to make your lovely Bride smile, she does have to put up with Rangy and the Laboratory...




How do you like the Azure?


----------



## ThurstonX

wildcatsare1 said:


> I am using a Bifrost Über or a Cambridge Azur 650 BD directly to my Lyr 2. I now have used the Wyrd between the Bifrost and an ASUS/MacBook Pro. The difference with the ASUS is dramatic, a bit more subtle with the Mac.
> 
> Glad to make your lovely Bride smile, she does have to put up with Rangy and the Laboratory...


 
  
 That's great that it makes a difference with the Bifrost.  Now if the wall-wart will pass the interference test, I'll be a happy camper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 She wanted me to let you know she loves Rangy, and is not pleased by @StanD's absconding with him.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> That's great that it makes a difference with the Bifrost.  Now if the wall-wart will pass the interference test, I'll be a happy camper
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You'll never see him again. Buahaha, I sold him into slavery building cheap headphone amps that sell on eBay. They weren't hiring at Schiit.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.StanD,
  
 Can I get in on your Slavery thing, I need a sideline that kicks out a good bit of walking-around money? 
  
 Tony in Michigan 
  
 ps. do they take older Women, hmm, like in their early 70's


----------



## SuperU

I just got me some Shiit...
  
 Exciting day.
  
 Just bought the Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber with the USB add on. 
  
 The Shiit tech was extremely helpful. Went back and forth with me numerous times. His name is Nick. Great guy.
  
 And he recommended the Mad Dog Pro's so I got those as well. 
  
 Anybody have experience with this combo?
  
 This is my first step into mid-fi and I'm excited to get it all in now and start listening. 
  
 My wallet is definitely lighter.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.SuperU,
  
 Pretty darn good "mid-fi", bet you'll be changing that into the best mid-fi money can buy before one month passes. 
  
 You'll be thanking whoever sent you to Schiit, you got lucky! 
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## cspirou

So the Schiit Gungnir has a "buy better gear" light that indicates whether it is using VCO or VCXO reclocking. My question is how do you know if your source is good enough for the VCXO clock without plugging it in to the Gungnir? Is there a list of what works and what doesn't work? Or does most new equipment actually start out good enough for the VCXO clock and then component degradation over time means that the performance drops?
  
 Mainly I would like to know if a Raspberry Pi through the USB port or a HiFiBerry Digi is a good enough digital source.


----------



## hsubox

superu said:


> I just got me some Shiit...
> 
> Exciting day.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can't speak to the Mad Dog Pro, but the Bifrost-Asgard 2 combo is huge performance on a budget! You'll love it, I'm sure.


----------



## BeatsWork

cspirou said:


> So the Schiit Gungnir has a "buy better gear" light that indicates whether it is using VCO or VCXO reclocking. My question is how do you know if your source is good enough for the VCXO clock without plugging it in to the Gungnir? Is there a list of what works and what doesn't work? Or does most new equipment actually start out good enough for the VCXO clock and then component degradation over time means that the performance drops?
> 
> Mainly I would like to know if a Raspberry Pi through the USB port or a HiFiBerry Digi is a good enough digital source.


 
  
 Have not seen a list of compatible devices but in typical Schiit fashion they made it pretty clear that your device has to be really,really crappy to trigger the "Buy better gear" light.  If the Pi or Berry USB modules are fully spec compliant I'd say the odds are pretty good.  You could always buy the PI (and I think Berry?) at RadioShack in case it doesn't.  I've plugged in multiple tablets and laptops , including a "disposable" quality generic Android tablet and have never seen the light come on.


----------



## SuperU

tonykaz said:


> Mr.SuperU,
> 
> Pretty darn good "mid-fi", bet you'll be changing that into the best mid-fi money can buy before one month passes.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Tony,
  
 I bet you are right. Since I have not heard anything of the caliber of what I purchased, I bet it will seem like I have entered Head-Fi nirvana. Coming from a set of Shure SRH440 cans plugged directly into my iMac, I'm sure the combo of what I bought will be nothing short of amazing. 
  
 The Head-Fi forum in general is where I found out about Shiit - from Amazon reviews, found Head-Fi. And I spent a huge amount of time reading and studying. Then more time corresponding here and with Shiit and Mr Speakeres. Until finally determined that for anywhere near what I could possibly spend, I was getting the best I could for what I want. Thus my post thanking those in the forums and all those whose posts I've read and all who have responded and helped me in the process. 
  
 I am truly grateful for this resource. I think it helped me from making a mediocre decision to making an incredible one.
  
 I think to go above where I am at would require another $2500 or so, maybe more. So I am very satisfied with what I'll end up with and how much I spent. 
  
 Luck is where preparedness and opportunity meet. Yes, I am very lucky.


----------



## cspirou

beatswork said:


> Have not seen a list of compatible devices but in typical Schiit fashion they made it pretty clear that your device has to be really,really crappy to trigger the "Buy better gear" light.  If the Pi or Berry USB modules are fully spec compliant I'd say the odds are pretty good.  You could always buy the PI (and I think Berry?) at RadioShack in case it doesn't.  I've plugged in multiple tablets and laptops , including a "disposable" quality generic Android tablet and have never seen the light come on.




Makes wonder what actually is crappy enough to set the light off.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

cspirou said:


> Makes wonder what actually is crappy enough to set the light off.


 

 Apple Airport Express, guaranteed.
  
 Satellite receivers, guaranteed.
  
 A Stanford Research audio analyzer set to over 1nS jitter or off-frequency (44.06k, for example), guaranteed.
  
 That's about it.


----------



## cspirou

jason stoddard said:


> Apple Airport Express, guaranteed.
> 
> Satellite receivers, guaranteed.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the answer!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

And I forgot one other thing that would set off the BBG light: old CD players. Yes, even if you love it. Yes, even if you spent $10,000 on it. They very frequently develop center frequency or jitter problems as they age.


----------



## jeremy205100

jason stoddard said:


> Apple Airport Express, guaranteed.
> 
> Satellite receivers, guaranteed.
> 
> ...


 

 Any particular reason for the airport express? I don't use one, but apple general makes quality products. What causes it to be so awful?


----------



## teofilrocks

jeremy205100 said:


> Any particular reason for the airport express? I don't use one, but apple general makes quality products. What causes it to be so awful?


 
  
 I think it resamples everything to 16/44.1, but not sure that would trigger the "need better gear" light.


----------



## Saraguie

jeremy205100 said:


> Any particular reason for the airport express? I don't use one, but apple general makes quality products. What causes it to be so awful?



I'd really like to know too, please


----------



## Zojokkeli

superu said:


> The Head-Fi forum in general is where I found out about Shiit - from Amazon reviews, found Head-Fi. And I spent a huge amount of time reading and studying. Then more time corresponding here and with Shiit and Mr Speakeres. Until finally determined that for anywhere near what I could possibly spend, I was getting the best I could for what I want. Thus my post thanking those in the forums and all those whose posts I've read and all who have responded and helped me in the process.
> 
> I am truly grateful for this resource. I think it helped me from making a mediocre decision to making an incredible one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi, and hold on tight to your wallet! I joined last year with very, very basic gear and my impulses got the better of me. Don't let your mind go wondering too much, or you might spiral out of control as well.


----------



## cspirou

jeremy205100 said:


> Any particular reason for the airport express? I don't use one, but apple general makes quality products. What causes it to be so awful?




Both of those products aren't particularly made for audio. Airport express is a WiFi router and isn't the original source of the music. I figure there is some sort of reclocking error going from a computer to WiFi to spdif to the DAC.


----------



## Billheiser

cspirou said:


> Both of those products aren't particularly made for audio. Airport express is a WiFi router and isn't the original source of the music. I figure there is some sort of reclocking error going from a computer to WiFi to spdif to the DAC.


Airport Express is made for audio. It streams at 16/44. Sounds good to me in my system, as I wirelessly send it music files from a laptop or iPhone.


----------



## SuperU

Now that is some FAST shiit.
  
 Got my shipping notification today that everything shipped. I ordered last night around 9 PM and got my tracking number this morning.
  
 We're talking just a few business hours after ordering and my schiit is on it's way. 
  
 Amazing customer service. I don't know how I will wait to get it. Even with their fast shipping I'm still probably 4 weeks from receiving it due to where I live. But it is on it's way.


----------



## SuperU

zojokkeli said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi, and hold on tight to your wallet! I joined last year with very, very basic gear and my impulses got the better of me. Don't let your mind go wondering too much, or you might spiral out of control as well.


 
 Yeah, I'm already struggling with that. I thought I was going to spend $500. Ended up spending $1400. 
  
 But I think I got high end stuff and I spent days reading and studying. So I'm convinced I'm gonna love it.
  
 I already want the Alpha Primes and a higher end stack of Shiit.  LOL


----------



## Zojokkeli

superu said:


> Yeah, I'm already struggling with that. I thought I was going to spend $500. Ended up spending $1400.
> 
> But I think I got high end stuff and I spent days reading and studying. So I'm convinced I'm gonna love it.
> 
> I already want the Alpha Primes and a higher end stack of Shiit.  LOL


 
  
 Keep your head cool and enjoy what you have. I'm also eyeing Gungnir for more outputs, in case I upgrade my speakers. If it gets trickle down goodies from Yggdrasil, that just might tip me over.


----------



## StanD

tonykaz said:


> Mr.StanD,
> 
> Can I get in on your Slavery thing, I need a sideline that kicks out a good bit of walking-around money?
> 
> ...


 
 You trying to ditch the old ball and chain? I hear that, evere since Rangy has gone, Thurston has an opening on the production line for his custom cables. He pays Schiit (well below minimum wage), the hours are very long and there are no bathroom breaks, so one might consider that slavery.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> custom cables


 
  
 Not really the thread for it, but is it better to have a super thick cable or a bunch of smaller ones together? I'd like to make some new speaker cables but have heard both sides of the argument and am conflicted


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> Not really the thread for it, but is it better to have a super thick cable or a bunch of smaller ones together? I'd like to make some new speaker cables but have heard both sides of the argument and am conflicted


 
 If you have or are thinking of a Schiit Rag, then this is a good place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Otherwise, Jason is waiting for your order.
 IMO, one can use zip or lamp cord of a heavy gauge for speakers and save a bundle. If the gauge is heavy I don't see a need for multiple wires in parallel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip-cord


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> You trying to ditch the old ball and chain? I hear that, evere since Rangy has gone, Thurston has an opening on the production line for his custom cables. He pays Schiit (well below minimum wage), the hours are very long and there are no bathroom breaks, so one might consider that slavery.


 
  
 Speaking of balls and chains, we have an assortment of devices to cater to the discerning masochist.  Pick your poison, as they say, but if you choose to take that phrase literally, be mindful of the fact that we will not give you enough to kill you.  And since Rangy's return to The Laboratory (where he enjoys all manner of fine Schiit), he's become quite adept at ministering to our clients.  Oh, and he makes a mean cable.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Speaking of balls and chains, we have an assortment of devices to cater to the discerning masochist.  Pick your poison, as they say, but if you choose to take that phrase literally, be mindful of the fact that we will not give you enough to kill you.  And since Rangy's return to The Laboratory (where he enjoys all manner of fine Schiit), he's become quite adept at ministering to our clients.  Oh, and he makes a mean cable.


 
 Cable, sure, you're really producing Cat o' nine tails.Perhaps Schiit can list this under accessories along with the PYST cable.


----------



## superjawes

ICYMI: Magni 2, Magni 2 Uber, Modi 2, and Modi 2 Uber. Post here.


----------



## StanD

superjawes said:


> ICYMI: Magni 2, Magni 2 Uber, Modi 2, and Modi 2 Uber. Post here.


 
 That Magni 2 Uber is very interesting.


----------



## unixdog

Greetings,
 I'm looking to purchase the Schitt M&M stack in a couple of weeks.  In addition to using it on my desktop
 connected to an iMac via USB, I'd also like to be able to move it to different rooms and connect it to an iPad 3
 so that I can enjoy my music while lounging around and doing some reading.  Can anyone confirm whether or
 not the modi will work with the iPad 3 connected via the CCK and USB cable?  (iPad3 --> CCK --> USB --> Modi --> RCA --> Magni --> HFs)
 Will this required a powered hub?  If so, can you recommend a hub that you've tested?  Does the hub actually have
 to be plugged into power?  FWIW, the iPad is running IOS 8.1.2.  Thanks in advance!!
  
 - Bill


----------



## Tuco1965

I run an iPad Air with lightning CCK into the Modi with no power issues.  Not sure how it compares to the iPad 3


----------



## unixdog

tuco1965 said:


> I run an iPad Air with lightning CCK into the Modi with no power issues.  Not sure how it compares to the iPad 3


 
 Thanks for the quick response.  So similar configuration (no hub) but using a lightening-to-USB CCK connector?


----------



## Tuco1965

unixdog said:


> Thanks for the quick response.  So similar configuration (no hub) but using a lightening-to-USB CCK connector?


 
  
 Correct.  No hub needed in this case.  The Bifrost needs a hub to work from the iPad though.


----------



## unixdog

tuco1965 said:


> Correct.  No hub needed in this case.  The Bifrost needs a hub to work from the iPad though.


 
 Thanks.  That's very promising.  BTW, do you find the Bifrost Uber / Lyr combo that much more superior in SQ than the Modi / Magni?
 I was actually considering the Bifrost Uber / Asgard 2 but I haven't yet convinced myself that I'd notice the difference.


----------



## rmullins08

unixdog said:


> Thanks.  That's very promising.  BTW, do you find the Bifrost Uber / Lyr combo that much more superior in SQ than the Modi / Magni?
> I was actually considering the Bifrost Uber / Asgard 2 but I haven't yet convinced myself that I'd notice the difference.


 
  
 Don't know if you have seen it yet, but the Modi and Magni 2 were just released today with Uber versions, which should bridge the gap even more.


----------



## Tuco1965

I find the sound of the combo more pleasing to my ears. They are both enjoyable. I actually bought the M&M stack after so that I could easily move around my house or elsewhere. The Bifrost drives my main speaker system and the Lyr. If I only had the M&M I'd still be happy. Just great gear all around.


----------



## unixdog

rmullins08 said:


> Don't know if you have seen it yet, but the Modi and Magni 2 were just released today with Uber versions, which should bridge the gap even more.


 
 Wow! No, I hadn't seen that. Only $50 more for the uber options.  That should definitely help reinforce my decision.  My only concern
 is being able to drive high impedence cans to their full potential.  I'm considering the Beyer DT880 600.  I realize that technically the Magni
 should be able to drive them, but I'm not sure if they'd be better served using an Asgard 2 or Lyr 2.  Decisons, Decisions.  Anyhow, thanks
 for the info on the Modi/Magni 2.


----------



## rmullins08

unixdog said:


> Wow! No, I hadn't seen that. Only $50 more for the uber options.  That should definitely help reinforce my decision.  My only concern
> is being able to drive high impedence cans to their full potential.  I'm considering the Beyer DT880 600.  I realize that technically the Magni
> should be able to drive them, but I'm not sure if they'd be better served using an Asgard 2 or Lyr 2.  Decisons, Decisions.  Anyhow, thanks
> for the info on the Modi/Magni 2.


 
  
 You should be fine with a DT880 600 with the Magni 2
  
 So did you say these amps will drive any headphone?
 Yes. Except maybe the HE-6. That’s about it.
  
 Including hard-to-drive orthos?
 Yes.
  
 Including IEMs?
 Yes.
  
  
 The regular Magni 2 - Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 130mW RMS per channel
 Magni 2 Uber - Maximum Power, 600 ohms: 160mW RMS per channel
  
  
 Lower than the Asgard/Lyr/Valhalla but still plenty of power.


----------



## superjawes

unixdog said:


> rmullins08 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know if you have seen it yet, but the Modi and Magni 2 were just released today with Uber versions, which should bridge the gap even more.
> ...


If you really want to drive high impedance loads, Valhalla or Lyr over Asgard. Any Magni could still be alright, but if you're going to get something bigger than that, the tube models have much higher voltage outputs.

On another note: is there any reason to get an Asgard 2 now? Magni's original launch just about killed the Asgard 1, and now Magni 2 Uber has preamp outs and a gain switch, which was a big reason to get an Asgard 2 over a Magni 1. Unless/until an Asgard 3 launches with new features, I'm not sure I could justify an Asgard 2 over a Magni 2 Uber.


----------



## BeatsWork

Oh thank the lord there's no balanced tube offering or I'd be tempted to work in to my stack ...


----------



## IncredulousD

Finally settled on my audio setup for the next few years: http://i.imgur.com/XdbreMo.jpg
  
 I've been very pleased with the performance of the Bifrost Uber. It cleared my line of some very aggravating noise issues I was having with my previous DAC. I now feel like I am receiving the source exactly as sent. Schiit customer service has been very willing to help in the past - I received responses to my questions within the same business day and once they went above and beyond to ensure Fedex corrected a shipping error. The only issue I have now is that despite the fact that my motherboard is rated for 24/192, it will only put out 96 on a brand new high quality toslink cable and has no coaxial. I'm waiting on a coaxial to replace and will just use my old Essence STX's SPDIF out since that support coaxial. Sort of makes me wish I went with the USB module as well...


----------



## BeatsWork

incredulousd said:


> Finally settled on my audio setup for the next few years: http://i.imgur.com/XdbreMo.jpg
> 
> I've been very pleased with the performance of the Bifrost Uber. It cleared my line of some very aggravating noise issues I was having with my previous DAC. I now feel like I am receiving the source exactly as sent. Schiit customer service has been very willing to help in the past - I received responses to my questions within the same business day and once they went above and beyond to ensure Fedex corrected a shipping error. The only issue I have now is that despite the fact that my motherboard is rated for 24/192, it will only put out 96 on a brand new high quality toslink cable and has no coaxial. I'm waiting on a coaxial to replace and will just use my old Essence STX's SPDIF out since that support coaxial. Sort of makes me wish I went with the USB module as well...




Are you sure you have most current driver for MB? Checked to see if chipset mfg has more current driver? Selected correct output in Foobar or whatever you're using? My experience on Toslink is that it works or it doesn't. No in between. Could be flaw in cable erroring out at higher rate but ...


----------



## StanD

superjawes said:


> If you really want to drive high impedance loads, Valhalla or Lyr over Asgard. Any Magni could still be alright, but if you're going to get something bigger than that, the tube models have much higher voltage outputs.
> 
> On another note: is there any reason to get an Asgard 2 now? Magni's original launch just about killed the Asgard 1, and now Magni 2 Uber has preamp outs and a gain switch, which was a big reason to get an Asgard 2 over a Magni 1. Unless/until an Asgard 3 launches with new features, I'm not sure I could justify an Asgard 2 over a Magni 2 Uber.


 
 If you fancy a Class A amp that uses no or very little feedback (depends on gain switch) then you will prefer the Asgard 2. All Asgard 2 and Magi 2 models are fully discrete (well done). The Magni 2 Uber is unbelievable for asking the price, it should sell like hotcakes.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> If you have or are thinking of a Schiit Rag, then this is a good place
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll be ordering a Mani soon (once my whisper-quiet PC is up and running)
  
 Guage over multi? Alright, garden hoses it is!
  
 And holy crap that Modi 2 Uber..... if digitizing my vinyl doesn't turn out I'm gonna be all over that


----------



## Baldr

Thoughts on the Release of a Modi2 and Modi2 Uber:
  
 Buck and a half; all of the functionality of the Bifrost; stupid good bang for the buck; toe tapping listenability with no digital screech; fun. Matches the Magni2Uber. What else needs to be said?
  
 Wait a minute! The Bifrost is getting long in the tooth, huh? Besides, all electronics keeps getting better and cheaper forever, right? The correct answer: usually not in audio; even D/A converters have a lot of analog parts, and the progression of digital DAC chips has been getting cheaper but worse.
  
 A brief digression: it is difficult to come out with new or upgraded models because there will be a few users who are the last to buy the old model. It always passes, but is difficult nonetheless. It is also a necessary rite of passage.
  
 So now we have a $150 Modi2Uber banging of the door of the Bifrost! What to do?
  
 The correct answer is to get what you can afford consistent with your performance requirements. Sometimes even a bit of trust can go a long way. After all, if I were really loath to hear about users who just missed out on an upgrade I would probably have upgraded the product already and then ship a couple of hundred or so before I announced it. Just maybe. Make up the money later. Good will isn't free; you have to earn it.
  
 Anyway, whatever you get, enjoy!
  
 And Yggy is still on schedule, with all of the new stuff.


----------



## Saraguie

jason stoddard said:


> Apple Airport Express, guaranteed.
> 
> Satellite receivers, guaranteed.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


jeremy205100 said:


> Any particular reason for the airport express? I don't use one, but apple general makes quality products. What causes it to be so awful?


 
  
  


saraguie said:


> I'd really like to know too, please


 
 Jason would you please comment or post a ink to read? I am just about to set up a WiFi chain at home with an Airport Express and my Mojo as parts of it.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

saraguie said:


> Jason would you please comment or post a ink to read? I am just about to set up a WiFi chain at home with an Airport Express and my Mojo as parts of it.


 

 No clue as to why. They just suck. Simple as that.


----------



## Saraguie

jason stoddard said:


> No clue as to why. They just suck. Simple as that.


 

 LOL......if barks like a dog...tis.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jason stoddard said:


> No clue as to why. They just suck. Simple as that.


 
  
  
 Ahh, I love the honesty from this empire


----------



## D126

Preamp Outputs: Uber has them, standard doesn’t.
Gain Stage: Uber has a complementary-input VAS, standard doesn’t.
Power Supply: Uber has 3x the transformer (24VA vs 8VA) and 1.6x the filter capacitance (6,400 vs 4,000uF), as well as more sophisticated regulators (programmable vs fixed) and a higher rail voltage (+/-16V vs +/-15V)
Chassis: Uber gets an aluminum top cover and solid aluminum milled knob, standard is painted steel and an aluminum-covered plastic knob.
 
 1. For cleanest audio is USB Modi or Optical Modi considered better? Perhaps I should just consider the Uber if I can't decide?
 
2. Power Supply: Modi 2 is USB powered, Modi 2 Uber has a linear power supply and wall-wart. What exactly is the Modi 2 Optical powered by? Does the way a DAC is powered matter in terms of Sound Quality?
 
3. How exactly do preamp output and gain stage of the Magni 2 improve sound quality? Does the improved Uber power supply help either?


----------



## money4me247

lol... i didn't even realize that a magni 2 uber existed. was that released at the same time as magni 2?


----------



## cspirou

Man I literally just bought the Modi a few weeks ago. I can live without the switch to 24/192, but I was agonizing between optical and USB for awhile and now I could have both with the Uber for $50 more!

Ah well. At least I didn't get a Magni yet and can now get a Magni 2 instead.


----------



## cspirou

d126 said:


> [COLOR=8F8F8F][COLOR=E2E2E2]Preamp Outputs:[/COLOR] Uber has them, standard doesn’t.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=8F8F8F][COLOR=E2E2E2]Gain Stage: [/COLOR]Uber has a complementary-input VAS, standard doesn’t.[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=8F8F8F][COLOR=E2E2E2]Power Supply: [/COLOR]Uber has 3x the transformer (24VA vs 8VA) and 1.6x the filter capacitance (6,400 vs 4,000uF), as well as more sophisticated regulators (programmable vs fixed) and a higher rail voltage (+/-16V vs +/-15V)[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=8F8F8F][COLOR=E2E2E2]Chassis: [/COLOR]Uber gets an aluminum top cover and solid aluminum milled knob, standard is painted steel and an aluminum-covered plastic knob.[/COLOR]
> ...




I would go with the optical for the first and second point. USB power can be quite noisy whereas optical has a separate power supply. Power supply definitely matters or else they would have never released the Wyrd for USB audio.


----------



## rmullins08

money4me247 said:


> lol... i didn't even realize that a magni 2 uber existed. was that released at the same time as magni 2?


 

 All announced just about 12 hours ago together


----------



## money4me247

rmullins08 said:


> All announced just about 12 hours ago together


 
 woww thats pretty xciting!


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> If you fancy a Class A amp that uses no or very little feedback (depends on gain switch) then you will prefer the Asgard 2. All Asgard 2 and Magi 2 models are fully discrete (well done). The Magni 2 Uber is unbelievable for asking the price, it should sell like hotcakes.


 
  
 Agree. Asgard 2 is still a better choice for audio "purists".


----------



## teofilrocks

Is there a section of the Schiit site that contains specs of discontinued products, or manual downloads for them? As soon as a new version of a model is released, all traces of the previous model seem to disappear.


----------



## madwolfa

teofilrocks said:


> Is there a section of the Schiit site that contains specs of discontinued products, or manual downloads for them? As soon as a new version of a model is released, all traces of the previous model seem to disappear.


 
  
 http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.schiit.com
  
 EDIT: doesn't work properly though.


----------



## ThurstonX

teofilrocks said:


> Is there a section of the Schiit site that contains specs of discontinued products, or manual downloads for them? As soon as a new version of a model is released, all traces of the previous model seem to disappear.


 
  
 You could try PMing people who still own the discontinued products and ask if they have the PDF manual.  Bit of a chore, but you might get lucky.  Then you could stick them in "the cloud" somewhere and link to them in your sig.  Just a thought.
  
 I can give you the Lyr's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 Or just put out a general request in this thread or elsewhere.


----------



## Xeculus

Does anyone know if Schiit responds to emails over the weekend?


----------



## madwolfa

xeculus said:


> Does anyone know if Schiit responds to emails over the weekend?


 
  
 Sometimes they do.


----------



## swspiers

beatswork said:


> Oh thank the lord there's no balanced tube offering or I'd be tempted to work in to my stack ...




That's the one new thing I'd really like to see from Schiit: a real TOTL tube amp.


----------



## Jones Bob

baldr said:


> And Yggy is still on schedule, with all of the new stuff.




Excellent news No.2.......anxiously waiting for this Schiit to drop.


----------



## BirdManOfCT

Questions to ponder:
  
 Do bears without headphones really Schiit in the woods?
  
 If we take the case off, is it called Bare Schiit?


----------



## jaywillin

swspiers said:


> That's the one new thing I'd really like to see from Schiit: a real TOTL tube amp.


 
  
















  
 oh man, that'd be something !


----------



## BirdManOfCT

swspiers said:


> That's the one new thing I'd really like to see from Schiit: a real TOTL tube amp.


 
  
  


jaywillin said:


> oh man, that'd be something !


 

 There used to be a saying about perfecting digital more and more until it eventually became ... analog.


----------



## dL.

Hey guys,

Before I call my retailer or call Schiit, I just want to know if this is normal or if I got really unlucky.

I just bought the Lyr2 and Bifrost today and both units have various degrees of minor chips on the metal edges, out of the box. Easiest way to find out is to run your fingers along each edges. It should be smooth as the metal should be a clean cut. If not, then it's chipped. 

I mean if most of you guys have some chips on the edges then maybe I'll just keep it because otherwise it's pristine but I just feel Iike for $1000+ combined, I shouldn't have to live with this. I mean come on, my FIIO has no chip or no cosmetic damage and it's 1/10 of the cost.

Let me know if you are able to share your findings. Thanks!

dL


----------



## john57

My old Lyr edges are just fine, no issues. What retailer are you using? The FIIO does not seem to have exposed edges.


----------



## tonykaz

Hello dL,
  
 Hm, waaaeelll, my Asgard2 is darn near perfect, can't discover any metalwork issues.   
  
 However, from a Car Industry point of view, fit & finnish issues will kill a car sale, we go to great lengths ( nearly obsessive lengths) to manufacture visually perfect products. 
  
 In fairness to Schiit, they are only a tiny start-up "Electronics" outfit, they buy their Sheet metal from some outfit that bangs-out these exterior boxes.  This is price point "American" production to "Good-enough" standards.  
   The Schiit people publicly ridicule the "Gold" plated Audio gear,  manufacturer's price points and the High-End Segment's need to make "Works of Art" devices.  
   I suspect that you will discover the Headphone-world generally accepts the fit&finnish level standards that Schiit ship out to their customers , it's a bit low in quality and perhaps the lowest that still meets or exceeds the acceptability standards of the typical american.
   But you are not an American are you?  You are a cultured Canadian, hmm, can you lower your expectations enough to simply enjoy the musical performance or do you have to polish your shoes and wear a Silk Tie?  
 [size=x-small]  Personally, I would insist you be [/size]accommodated, I would meet your expectations and then I would exceed them with a nice little something or other.  I need you out there loving my company and products and I need you to make further purchases, any investment I make in making you happy would eventually be rewarded 10 fold. 
  
 [size=x-small]I hope they take good care of you.  This headfi site is a good place to get their attention especially if you promise to report how this ends-up,[/size]
 [size=x-small]probably Alex Martin is getting a Post-it note about you right now.[/size]
  
 [size=x-small]Tony in Michigan  [/size]


----------



## Alje

My Shiite story
  
 Owned Modi Optical since August
  
 30.11.14 Ordered Modi USB,SYS and Wyrd
  
 3.12.14 RECEIVED order (surprised how fast order shipped/received in UK)
  
 12.12.14 Schiit announce Modi 2/ Uber etc
  
 Now i realise why order was shipped so fast.
 To say I'm a little pissed off and this leaves a bad taste in the mouth is an understatement.
 Had i have known what was due to be released 12.12 i would have waited and ordered Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber 
 Have emailed request to cancel Fulla order and doubt i will be a Schiit customer again in the future, lost all my faith and trust in the company.
 Im sure i will get attatcked for this post , but put yourselves in my position, how happy would you be?


----------



## madwolfa

alje said:


> Im sure i will get attatcked for this post , but put yourselves in my position, how happy would you be?




If I were in your position, I would try sorting this out with Schiit first and then post the stories on the Internet (depending on the outcome). Why do people do everything backwards?


----------



## 45longcolt

swspiers said:


> That's the one new thing I'd really like to see from Schiit: a real TOTL tube amp.


 
  
 Yes, please!
  
 With either the tubes sticking out, or an easily-removable grille to facilitate rolling.


----------



## BackToAnalogue

Because people type first and think later. 

They also seem to think that good manners isn't necessary on-line and forget that if you expect good service from a company then it is quite reasonable for that company to expect politeness from you in return. It works both ways. 

Being polite and friendly is usually a lot more productive than jumping up and down.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.Alje,
  
 Attacked?, quite the reciprocal, I would imagine, you are a having kindred souls sharing your feelings! 
  
 Just reading you're anxiety from you're experience has everyone feeling this happening to them in a first- hand way.  It's like seeing a motorcycle accident take place, it's a nightmare that stays in the mind for decades.  
  
 I, as a Owner of Schiit Products, feel your pain! 
  
 I felt the need to service "customer expectations" & the need to "never burn the customer" to be the number 1 priority of any Mail Order Company!
  
 I've found Schiit Company to be a "Reliable" source of economical solutions, their handling of this revision business will need to be addressed.  How they proceed will be watched and scrutinized, how you are "taken care of" will be of interest to the headphone community and all the manufactures that service this community.  
  
 Sir, the world stands with you!  We are all sitting here biting our nails from anxiety over this.
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## money4me247

alje said:


> My Shiite story
> 
> Owned Modi Optical since August
> 
> ...


 
 hey on the schittstorm thread, jason (the founder of schiit) stated that you should contact them if you are within the 15 day window. hope they fix it to your satisfaction


----------



## hodgjy

I would be frustrated if I bought something and then have an upgraded version immediately come out. But, keep a few things in mind:

1) Schiit said they would take care of people within the window.
2) Just because a new version comes out, it doesn't mean the old version is suddenly no good.
3) Who's to say the new version better fits your preferences? The version you bought was researched and/or auditioned. It was chosen for a reason. The new version, which you have never heard, may not sound the same and be as pleasing. For example, I liked the Asgard 1 more than the Asgard 2 even though the latter is technically superior.


----------



## atbglenn

hodgjy said:


> I would be frustrated if I bought something and then have an upgraded version immediately come out. But, keep a few things in mind:
> 
> 1) Schiit said they would take care of people within the window.
> 2) Just because a new version comes out, it doesn't mean the old version is suddenly no good.
> 3) Who's to say the new version better fits your preferences? The version you bought was researched and/or auditioned. It was chosen for a reason. The new version, which you have never heard, may not sound the same and be as pleasing. For example, I liked the Asgard 1 more than the Asgard 2 even though the latter is technically superior.


 
 Jay, what do you like better about the Asgard 1?  I have one and was thinking about upgrading to version 2.


----------



## hodgjy

atbglenn said:


> Jay, what do you like better about the Asgard 1?  I have one and was thinking about upgrading to version 2.




To my ears, it's a little warmer, smoother, and more musical. The treble is a hint sweeter. 

The A2 is clearer with more detail preservation, but it's more clinical. It's a great amp, but the A1 is more vintage to my ears.


----------



## atbglenn

hodgjy said:


> To my ears, it's a little warmer, smoother, and more musical. The treble is a hint sweeter.
> 
> The A2 is clearer with more detail preservation, but it's more clinical. It's a great amp, but the A1 is more vintage to my ears.


 
 Thanks  I think I'll stick with my original Asgard then.


----------



## Eee Pee

dl. said:


> I just bought the Lyr2 and Bifrost today and both units have various degrees of minor chips on the metal edges, out of the box.
> dL




My Mjolnir does. I asked Jason if it was normal. Looks like a vise or a jig of sorts was used to hold the case, or something. He said no it's not normal but I bought it second hand so there's no telling what made those marks. Meh. I've forgotten they're there.


----------



## Byronb

dl. said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Before I call my retailer or call Schiit, I just want to know if this is normal or if I got really unlucky.
> 
> ...


 
  
 8 pieces of Schiit now and no imperfections, I would return the items.


----------



## bearFNF

@dL. Even if you decide to keep them I would let them know about it.  They need the feedback.  Maybe even some pictures would help them pinpoint the issue.  Could be a fixture they are using needs to be replaced/repaired.  Personally if they are supposed to be 'new' and they look 'used' I would return them and get new units.


----------



## scizzro

PSA: Jason just increased the return limit to *3* times per year.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family/195#post_11130284


----------



## Jason Stoddard

scizzro said:


> PSA: Jason just increased the return limit to *3* times per year.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family/195#post_11130284


 

 And formalized the waiving of restocking fees if you're moving up the line: schiit.com/faq/warranty-returns
  
 These are a couple things I've been thinking about doing for a while (and we have been, well, effectively already doing), so I decided to make them real. Thanks to scizzro for prompting me to take a look at our policies.


----------



## znil78

Original Asgard Vs Magni 2 Uber anyone?


----------



## CrunchyChick

znil78 said:


> Original Asgard Vs Magni 2 Uber anyone?


 
 Just by looking at the specs:
  
 Magni 2U has lower output impedence, lower noise floor, lower distortion, higher power into low-impedence, much lower power draw (will run a lot cooler)
 Asgard 2 has slightly more power for high impedence headphones and is class A
  
 specs aren't everything though so we'll need to wait for someone whos heard both.


----------



## judmarc

baldr said:


> And Yggy is still on schedule, with all of the new stuff.


 
  
 ...for a very specific definition of "on schedule."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


----------



## darkninja67

Which amp/dac combinations are you HD650 owners running?
looking to run a system out from the USB on my notebook.


----------



## madwolfa

darkninja67 said:


> Which amp/dac combinations are you HD650 owners running?
> looking to run a system out from the USB on my notebook.


 
  
 Depends on your budget and portability requirements. I've been running it with Bifrost USB and Asgard 2 with great results.


----------



## kothganesh

darkninja67 said:


> Which amp/dac combinations are you HD650 owners running?
> looking to run a system out from the USB on my notebook.


 

 Bottlhead Crack with Speedball for amp....Bifrost Uber for DAC or even better Gungnir.


----------



## crf1986

madwolfa said:


> darkninja67 said:
> 
> 
> > Which amp/dac combinations are you HD650 owners running?
> ...


 Bifrost Uber USB and Asgard 2 for me.


----------



## StanD

crf1986 said:


> Bifrost Uber USB and Asgard 2 for me.


 
 Same for me. I use the combo with my HD600's and HE-500's. My ears are happy campers.


----------



## SuperU

Do you guys think that the Bifrost Uber USB and Asgard 2 would power the MrSpeakers Alpha Prime headphone?
  
 I bought that combo for my Alpha dog pro phones and can't wait to get it. Still, after reading all about the Alpha Prime's, I'm wishing I spent the extra money and bought them. 
  
 Also, what is the Yggy. A new Schiit amp? What will it have/be that is special (besides the obvious that it is the Schiit)?


----------



## swspiers

superu said:


> Do you guys think that the Bifrost Uber USB and Asgard 2 would power the MrSpeakers Alpha Prime headphone?
> 
> I bought that combo for my Alpha dog pro phones and can't wait to get it. Still, after reading all about the Alpha Prime's, I'm wishing I spent the extra money and bought them.
> 
> Also, what is the Yggy. A new Schiit amp? What will it have/be that is special (besides the obvious that it is the Schiit)?


 

 No doubt the Asgard 2 will power the Primes.  Probably beyond ear-damaging levels!


----------



## StanD

superu said:


> Do you guys think that the Bifrost Uber USB and Asgard 2 would power the MrSpeakers Alpha Prime headphone?
> 
> I bought that combo for my Alpha dog pro phones and can't wait to get it. Still, after reading all about the Alpha Prime's, I'm wishing I spent the extra money and bought them.
> 
> Also, what is the Yggy. A new Schiit amp? What will it have/be that is special (besides the obvious that it is the Schiit)?


 
 Bifrost Uber USB and Asgard 2 should bring a smile to your ears, it's very versatile and clean as a whistle. The A2 has plenty of juice. The Yggy is the biggest Schiit in town, top of the pile.


----------



## bearFNF

Yggdrasil is the statement DAC to match/pair up with the Ragnarok .


superu said:


> Also, what is the Yggy. A new Schiit amp? What will it have/be that is special (besides the obvious that it is the Schiit)?


----------



## BackToAnalogue

tonykaz said:


> Hello dL,
> 
> 
> Hm, waaaeelll, my Asgard2 is darn near perfect, can't discover any metalwork issues.
> ...





But you can go too far with that logic and I expect you know the famous example of the Mini car and British Leyland.

 It was their best selling car for many years and an Engineer from Ford, (I think but please correct), bought one and reverse engineered it and realised that BL were losing money on every Mini they sold and had done since their first introduction.

How is a company supposed to handle updates without upsetting a few people a little bit? They have to take the pain of all the component batches that have suddenly changed spec and the little wrinkles in device drivers that each new release of Windows inevitably introduces. 

I stopped worrying about it years ago. If you do keep worrying, then you will end up feeling pissed off 6 months after you have bought anything new, however much you liked it when you got it. That isn't a very good plan for future mental well being. Or indeed financial stability.


----------



## ThurstonX

+1 to @BackToAnalogue 
  
 Don't get all bent outta shape.  And be happy Schiit is a company willing to acknowledge that recent buyers of suddenly "out-dated" models are due proper treatment.  Well done on the whole warranty rethink.
 In short, take a pill, grab a drink (perhaps not both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), and enjoy some tunes


----------



## madwolfa

thurstonx said:


> In short, take a pill, grab a drink (perhaps not both
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Dis should be good!


----------



## ThurstonX

madwolfa said:


> Dis should be good!


 
  
 +2112!  Finally got to try the 15-year-old at Thanksgiving.  To say it's good schiit doesn't do it justice.  My niece has one generous boss.


----------



## SuperU

backtoanalogue said:


> tonykaz said:
> 
> 
> > Hello dL,
> ...


 
 I bought my new Bifrost Uber w/ USB and Asgard 2 like the day before the new stuff was released. The tech did not tell me.
  
 I'll be honest and say that I think he should have. Though it would not have changed my mind. I would have bought exactly what I did. Even though I haven't heard it yet, I'm sure I will be extremely happy.
  
 The point though is that it is always better to inform the customer and give them the ability to choose. 
  
 Now, in Schiit's favor, they responded to me all through a weekend. Very quick and helpful. (Though I might add, very sparse amounts of info in their emails.) Still, I know of very few places that would go back and forth with customers all weekend and do their best to help. And, I had originally thought I was going to go with a pair of 880's. But for the heck of it, I asked Nick (Schiit tech) what he might get headphones wise for my application. He came back with a list of headphones that I had thoroughly checked out… All but one - Mr Speakers Mad Dog Pro. So I begin looking into those. And ultimately, that's what I went with. 
  
 So I have absolutely nothing but positive and glowing things to say about Schiit - and Nick. 
  
 My stuff is sitting at the freight forwarders waiting to get sent to me. I could easily exchange it for something else. But I am going to enjoy to the fullest what I bought. It will be the best musical experience I have had. And enhanced significantly by the great experience I had with Schiit. I will want to get more in the future. So will wait to see what the latest greatest is when I get there. Though I'm still feeling like I should have sprung for the Alpha Primes. 
  
 Why not really inform your customers. You would not have lost anything by doing that for me. But it's ok. I still love ya and I haven't even heard my Schiit yet. Got nothing but raving fanboi words for your company and service. Already referred one person who bought. I see much more Schiit in my near future. My wife will want her own Schiit and I sure won't want her messin' with my Schiit. I will need a second listening station for bedroom use. 
  
 Damn, do I send back my Alpha Dog Pro's and buy the Alpha Prime's or just enjoy 'em. I'm leaning towards just enjoying them. These damn forums get me going and wanting all I'm reading about. LOL


----------



## BeatsWork

thurstonx said:


> +2112!  Finally got to try the 15-year-old at Thanksgiving.  To say it's good schiit doesn't do it justice.  My niece has one generous boss.




Things that don't quite sound right in email update without explanatory pic attached ...


----------



## SuperU

beatswork said:


> Things that don't quite sound right in email update without explanatory pic attached ...


 
 Ha ha ha ha ha - was going to say the same thing but thought I might be the only one with my mind going in the wrong direction. Glad to see I'm not the only one.


----------



## ThurstonX

beatswork said:


> Things that don't quite sound right in email update without explanatory pic attached ...


 
  


superu said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha - was going to say the same thing but thought I might be the only one with my mind going in the wrong direction. Glad to see I'm not the only one.


 
  





  Chagrin doesn't sum it up.  I must have an *exceptionally* pure mind.  But *damn* those Audeze's are hot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  

  
  
 My wife is ROTFLHFAO and wagging her finger at you naughty people


----------



## madwolfa

beatswork said:


> Things that don't quite sound right in email update without explanatory pic attached ...


 
  
 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## dL.

Here's an update to my case:
  
 So I went to my retailer and after lengthy hesitation of convincing me that it is normal to have very minor cosmetic damage, we managed to open one more to inspect. And that one was even worse. That one had a huge chip, I think almost the size of an index finger, so I decided to just keep the original one. Not to mention also that one of my tube is fairly chipped up near the top, which the retailer agreed to swap for me.
  
 During all this time, I tried to email Schiit and their support is atrocious. Nick responded really quick with short sentences basically telling me to deal with it at the place I bought it from. So now I am stuck with two cosmetically-chipped Bifrost and Lyr2. I'll be honest. It's not really that noticeable, but it's something that you will find in less than 10 seconds if you inspect it. 
  
 If there's any Schiit reps here on Head-Fi, please let me know and I'd love to speak with them because the quality and experience so far is a bit concerning to me.
  
 I think this will be my last time buying any Schiit products as I cannot believe their quality control and build quality is worse than my made-in-China Fiio E9/E17, and yet I don't feel they are going to stand behind their products either. The sound is fantastic, but I'm sure there are a lot of other brands that sound just as great and have superior quality control.
  
 dL


----------



## Zojokkeli

dl. said:


> Here's an update to my case:
> 
> So I went to my retailer and after lengthy hesitation of convincing me that it is normal to have very minor cosmetic damage, we managed to open one more to inspect. And that one was even worse. That one had a huge chip, I think almost the size of an index finger, so I decided to just keep the original one. Not to mention also that one of my tube is fairly chipped up near the top, which the retailer agreed to swap for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does sound strange, maybe the reseller is selling b-stock products or something. All the Schiit I've owned were flawless, both performance and looks.


----------



## superjawes

Yeah, Schiit was established with the intent of selling everything direct, and I don't think they've set up any local distributions yet (although Canada is almost-US as far as distribution is concerned). I would still recommend Schiit, but do whatever you can to get it directly from them. Even the "Fulfilled By Amazon" might be a better route.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Le Lenny. Lol ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)





madwolfa said:


> ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


----------



## StefanJK

Yes, do contact Schiit directly.  They do say they want to know about cosmetic problems (can't find a link to the post right now).


----------



## BackToAnalogue

superjawes said:


> Yeah, Schiit was established with the intent of selling everything direct, and I don't think they've set up any local distributions yet (although Canada is almost-US as far as distribution is concerned). I would still recommend Schiit, but do whatever you can to get it directly from them. Even the "Fulfilled By Amazon" might be a better route.



 


Really?

Like everyone I use Amazon for convenience. But if I am ordering something where I may subsequently need some service or a return, i.e. anything electronic or big, I always buy direct, and usually online, from a retailer with a good reputation. I also only use Ebay and Paypal for small things for the same reason.

 All three companies are economic fascists and treat the people who sell through them really badly. I certainly don't want those b****s in the middle of any issue I might want sorted out for me. Politeness won't get you anywhere with any of them either, but it usually will if you deal with a retailer and pay them in a way that incurs the least charges.


----------



## Delirious Lab

thurstonx said:


> +2112!  Finally got to try the 15-year-old at Thanksgiving.  To say it's good schiit doesn't do it justice.  My niece has one generous boss.


 
 I don't have enough of a twisted mind, I got the Rush reference before the unintended humor.


----------



## reddog

The folk from Schiit Audio are fantastic, they have promptly answered any questions I have had. Furthermore all the products I have gotten are top notch products. I still can not believe how rock solid my Ragnarok is, it could stop a bullet lol. I highly recommend this fantastic company to any headphone enthusiast.


----------



## dL.

stefanjk said:


> Yes, do contact Schiit directly.  They do say they want to know about cosmetic problems (can't find a link to the post right now).




I did. And Nick (from tech@schiit.com) kept brushing it off with one sentence response such as:

"No it's not normal. Go talk to your retailer." So I don't know really know what you mean by excellent customer service. They do reply fast, but all within 2 sentences as if they are tweeting me or something. 

Do you have an alternative method for me to contact them?

Maybe I should try to return it and go with another brand. 

dL


----------



## madwolfa

dl. said:


> I did. And Nick (from tech@schiit.com) kept brushing it off with one sentence response such as:
> 
> "No it's not normal. Go talk to your retailer."
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I guess it's really in your dealer's responsibility now. It's not your problem that they have no good replacement in stock.
 They have to order a replacement for you from the manufacturer and return your item back to Schiit for refurbishing.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> I did. And Nick (from tech@schiit.com) kept brushing it off with one sentence response such as:
> 
> "No it's not normal. Go talk to your retailer."
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry you had a less than stellar experience, but if you didn't purchase directly, we really can't do much--especially internationally, where our distributors and dealers set their own policies regarding returns (and, in many cases, warranty.) Your relationship is with the reseller, so if you want to have it resolved, it will need to be through the reseller. 
  
 That said, I'd love to see photos of the defects you're talking about. Your description of "index finger sized chips" is not like anything we would ship out--not even B-stock.
  
 I'd also like to know who the reseller is, so I can have a talk with them.


----------



## StefanJK

dl. said:


> I did. And Nick (from tech@schiit.com) kept brushing it off with one sentence response such as:
> 
> "No it's not normal. Go talk to your retailer." So I don't know really know what you mean by excellent customer service. They do reply fast, but all within 2 sentences as if they are tweeting me or something.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, who is the dealer and why are you using them if they provide less service?    I assume it is a Canada custom thing, I'm not up to date on that.  
  
 Update: didn't see Jason's post above when I posted.


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm more than curious as well.  Why not go back to the retailer?


----------



## superjawes

jason stoddard said:


> Sorry you had a less than stellar experience, but if you didn't purchase directly, we really can't do much--especially internationally, where our distributors and dealers set their own policies regarding returns (and, in many cases, warranty.) Your relationship is with the reseller, so if you want to have it resolved, it will need to be through the reseller.
> 
> That said, I'd love to see photos of the defects you're talking about. Your description of "index finger sized chips" is not like anything we would ship out--not even B-stock.
> 
> I'd also like to know who the reseller is, so I can have a talk with them.


There you go.


----------



## dL.

I'll tell you the truth why I chose to buy locally. First of all, that place is superb. I've bought all my audio gears from them and they stand up for it. In fact, I can bring it back to them and they can help me ship it out for warranty repairs if necessary.
  
 I also don't want to make up the story, but the owner did initially propose to offer me a full refund. To me, I think that's just brushing me off but I understand how he feels. He can't afford to open his entire stock just to find a good one for me. I guess that's how small business and shop works nowadays when they can't send it back to the original company.
  
 Lastly, I do not feel comfortable buying from Schiit directly when I see that they have strict return policy with a ridiculous 20% restocking fee, and a restriction of 1 (or 3 now?) returns per year or something. That's insane and even worse than some Asian-based companies locally. Imagine if I buy from them and tell them about this cosmetic problem, and they reply me with "it's within specification", then I'm going to have to pay shipping and lose 20% because of that?
  
 Anyways, Jason, I'm going to shoot you a PM as I respect my local reseller. But I think if you look at my signature and refer to my "local", I think most can draw up their conclusion as well.
  
 dL


----------



## cspirou

dl. said:


> Here's an update to my case:
> 
> So I went to my retailer and after lengthy hesitation of convincing me that it is normal to have very minor cosmetic damage, we managed to open one more to inspect. And that one was even worse. That one had a huge chip, I think almost the size of an index finger, so I decided to just keep the original one. Not to mention also that one of my tube is fairly chipped up near the top, which the retailer agreed to swap for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Yeah, I have sent a couple emails to Schiit with responses from Nick as well and I get really short answers that make me regret ever writing to begin with.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> I'll tell you the truth why I chose to buy locally. First of all, that place is superb. I've bought all my audio gears from them and they stand up for it. In fact, I can bring it back to them and they can help me ship it out for warranty repairs if necessary.
> 
> I also don't want to make up the story, but the owner did initially propose to offer me a full refund. To me, I think that's just brushing me off but I understand how he feels. He can't afford to open his entire stock just to find a good one for me. I guess that's how small business and shop works nowadays when they can't send it back to the original company.
> 
> ...


 

 20% restocking? You mean 5%? Waived when moving up the line?
  
 And yes, 3 order returns per year, total 6 products.
  
 Let's be fair here.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

cspirou said:


> Yeah, I have sent a couple emails to Schiit with responses from Nick as well and I get really short answers that make me regret ever writing to begin with.


 

 I'd like to know about this as well. That said, Nick is not a salesman, so he can come off as brusque. I've monitored many of his responses.


----------



## tonykaz

Mr.Stoddard,
  
 Nice work, this kind of response will make you a legend.  
  
 This is the balance scale of justice that makes up the old "Ben Franklin" close. 
  
 Here you are loading your side of the scale with reasons to buy Schiit products. 
  
 Everyone "Feels" this in a first person sense.  
  
 Spotlight is on you and dl, take good care of him and you take care of all of us!  
  
 Tony in rainy Michigan


----------



## dL.

Jason, I've shoot you a few PM's as I prefer to keep this private and confidential until the case is resolved.
  
 I'm often a loyal customer for life as I hate trying new brands. I'm hopeful that Jason can restore my faith on Schiit and I can be a happy camper again. Until then, I will not share any further details publicly regarding my retailer and/or the email exchanges at Schiit, unless they are unwilling to resolve my case to my satisfaction at the end.
  
 I think what I want is very simple. I just want a blemish-free product that any normal consumer would want. I really hope I can get that at the end.
  
 dL


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> Jason, I've shoot you a few PM's as I prefer to keep this private and confidential until the case is resolved.
> 
> I'm often a loyal customer for life as I hate trying new brands. I'm hopeful that Jason can restore my faith on Schiit and I can be a happy camper again. Until then, I will not share any further details publicly regarding my retailer and/or the email exchanges at Schiit, unless they are unwilling to resolve my case to my satisfaction at the end.
> 
> ...


 

 To be clear, all I can do is talk to the retailer and see what they are doing to the product. Again, your relationship is with the reseller.
  
 If you would like to repurchase direct, we can certainly help you out, but you have already stated that you do not want to do so, and you have no faith in our company, so I am at a loss.


----------



## scizzro

dl. said:


> I'll tell you the truth why I chose to buy locally. First of all, that place is superb. I've bought all my audio gears from them and they stand up for it. In fact, I can bring it back to them and they can help me ship it out for warranty repairs if necessary.
> 
> I also don't want to make up the story, but the owner did initially propose to offer me a full refund. To me, I think that's just brushing me off but I understand how he feels. He can't afford to open his entire stock just to find a good one for me. I guess that's how small business and shop works nowadays when they can't send it back to the original company.
> 
> ...


 
 To mirror the other posts in this thread, the stuff I've ordered from them has never been damaged in any way. The fact that multiple units are damaged from your local guy is very strange.
  
 If you like the sound, don't be afraid to order directly from Schiit. As long as the shipping guys are gentle, you will receive a unit without flaw.


----------



## dL.

jason stoddard said:


> To be clear, all I can do is talk to the retailer and see what they are doing to the product. Again, your relationship is with the reseller.
> 
> If you would like to repurchase direct, we can certainly help you out, but you have already stated that you do not want to do so, and you have no faith in our company, so I am at a loss.


 
 It would be a disservice to Schiit if I boldly assumed my claim and never gave you guys a try. But from what I see on the website, it says there's a 5% restocking fee (my bad I don't know why I mentioned 20% earlier). What I do want to know are the following, before I attempt to order directly:
  
 - If there are cosmetic blemishes (as shown on the pictures I've PM'd you), do I have to pay for the shipping to send it back?
 - Are there any restocking fees for exchanging cosmetically-proned blemishes or other defects (including audio quality)?
  
 Usually when I see restocking fees, it's a sign that the company does not want to help. That's why many people prefer to buy at B&H or Amazon because they have a no-questions-asked hassle-free return or exchange process. I just want to understand how you guys work and if it's reasonable, I will definitely give it a try.
  
 At the retailer where I purchased from, the box and packaging that it came with is pristine. I see no traces of boxes thrown around and the packaging is superb. So I am at a loss as to why it can come with blemishes. Maybe it's just a bad batch?
  
 Another concern I just realized is the shipping fees. The price that I got it for locally is less expensive than if I were to order directly from Schiit as there is a shipping charge of $15 (delivered to US and I can drive over the border to pick it up) or $35 (if delivered right to my house). I just did a quick calculation, and ordering from Schiit requires me to pay $50-150 CAD more after conversion, on top of the fact that there are high chances that I will get charged additional tax.
  
 ---
  
 But on top of all this, ultimately I am confused with one point. Why does a consumer need to return and repurchase from another source? *Shouldn't this be dealt with via warranty and support?* If the company stands behind their product, I would really like to know why I can't just send my unit(s) to Schiit and in exchange they send me back a blemish-free product? 
  
 And Jason, based on the pictures I've sent you, is this something you normally see in your products (i.e. I am expecting too much for perfection), or is this not normal (i.e. something is definitely wrong in the manufacturing process)?
  
 dL


----------



## ThurstonX

delirious lab said:


> I don't have enough of a twisted mind, I got the Rush reference before the unintended humor.


 
  
 As was intended


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> It would be a disservice to Schiit if I boldly assumed my claim and never gave you guys a try. But from what I see on the website, it says there's a 20% restocking fee. What I do want to know are the following, before I attempt to order directly:
> 
> - If there are cosmetic blemishes (as shown on the pictures I've PM'd you), do I have to pay for the shipping to send it back?
> - Are there any restocking fees for exchanging cosmetically-proned blemishes or other defects (including audio quality)?
> ...


 

 What website are you on? Seriously, there is no 20% restocking fee, anywhere on our site. I'd love to see a screen capture of what you're seeing. The restocking is stated clearly for each product on its product page, and at schiit.com/faq/warranty-returns. For Lyr 2 and Bifrost, it is 5%.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> - If there are cosmetic blemishes (as shown on the pictures I've PM'd you), do I have to pay for the shipping to send it back?
> - Are there any restocking fees for exchanging cosmetically-proned blemishes or other defects (including audio quality)?
> 
> dL


 
  
 If there are cosmetic issues that are not caused by shipping (easily provable with box photos) of course you wouldn't need to pay to ship it back, and of course there are no restocking fees for defective products--though this is so rare, I had to think about this for a while.


----------



## dL.

jason stoddard said:


> What website are you on? Seriously, there is no 20% restocking fee, anywhere on our site. I'd love to see a screen capture of what you're seeing. The restocking is stated clearly for each product on its product page, and at schiit.com/faq/warranty-returns. For Lyr 2 and Bifrost, it is 5%.


 

 I've modified my post as I must be smoking. I apologize for the false claim. It is indeed 5% for the Lyr2, but I notice that the Modi is 15%. I guess it varies by products.
  
 I've also edited my post previously with some additional contents and would love to hear your insight on those as well. Thanks Jason!
  
 dL


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> I've modified my post as I must be smoking. I apologize for the false claim. It is indeed 5% for the Lyr2, but I notice that the Modi is 15%. I guess it varies by products.
> 
> I've also edited my post previously with some additional contents and would love to hear your insight on those as well. Thanks Jason!
> 
> dL


 

 As stated before, if purchased through a reseller, your relationship is with the reseller. We can do nothing about this, I'm afraid. I will discuss with them the condition of their products, as this is definitely not normal.
  
 With respect to shipping, exchange rates, customs, etc, I'm afraid we can't do anything to affect those.


----------



## dL.

First of all, Jason, if you are the co-founder of Schiit, then I must applaud you for your commitment and personal care towards every concern and feedback at Head-Fi and beyond. I think that's fantastic and many other companies need to learn from you.
  
 I'll re-paste my other concern here:
  
_On top of all this, ultimately I am confused with one point. Why does a consumer need to return and repurchase from another source? *Shouldn't this be dealt with via warranty and support?* If the company stands behind their product, I would really like to know why I can't just send my unit(s) to Schiit and in exchange they send me back a blemish-free product? _
  
_And Jason, based on the pictures I've sent you, is this something you normally see in your products (i.e. I am expecting too much for perfection), or is this not normal (i.e. something is definitely wrong in the manufacturing process)?_
  
_---_
  
 Let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks!
  
 dL


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> First of all, Jason, if you are the co-founder of Schiit, then I must applaud you for your commitment and personal care towards every concern and feedback at Head-Fi and beyond. I think that's fantastic and many other companies need to learn from you.
> 
> I'll re-paste my other concern here:
> 
> ...


 

 Both were answered in the post above.


----------



## dL.

jason stoddard said:


> Both were answered in the post above.


 

 So if I understand correctly, if I purchased from a reseller, then the warranty, support and communication resides with the reseller? And there's nothing head-office can do to step in and rectify?
  
 dL


----------



## Jason Stoddard

dl. said:


> So if I understand correctly, if I purchased from a reseller, then the warranty, support and communication resides with the reseller? And there's nothing head-office can do to step in and rectify?
> 
> dL


 

 Correct. You have the option of working with them to resolve any issues, or you have the option of purchasing from us and having us directly resolve any issues. Sorry if neither is ideal for you.


----------



## Tuco1965

Sounds like the best way to resolve things would be to take things back to your reseller and get a refund.  Then purchase something else.


----------



## rmullins08

dl. said:


> First of all, Jason, if you are the co-founder of Schiit, then I must applaud you for your commitment and personal care towards every concern and feedback at Head-Fi and beyond. I think that's fantastic and many other companies need to learn from you.
> 
> 
> 
> dL


 
  
 He is indeed the co-founder.  I would highly recommend reading through http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up
  
 It will give you more insight into how they actually run things and why their policies are what they are.


----------



## dL.

jason stoddard said:


> Correct. You have the option of working with them to resolve any issues, or you have the option of purchasing from us and having us directly resolve any issues. Sorry if neither is ideal for you.


 

 Thanks for your quick response, Jason. May I suggest some feedback to you?
  
 I think the reseller's responsibilities should be to educate, preach and expand your network of audience to get more people purchasing your product. However, when a company relies their reseller for all matters including warranty, support, then the experience can become inconsistent as you are now putting your company's reputation on the lines of their owner's policy.
  
 If I purchase a Macbook Pro from Best Buy, or Amazon, I can still call Apple directly or visit one of their stores to get warranty support. Audioengine (audioengineusa.com) provided support for me when my remote control broke even though I purchased from a local reseller here.
  
 I apologize if I am unfamiliar in the high-end audio world, but shouldn't the consumers be contacting the original company directly for any warranty or support-related issues, irrespective of where they purchased it from (of course, it has to be an authorized reseller and not a fake)?
  
 I apologize if I am not understanding here.
  


tuco1965 said:


> Sounds like the best way to resolve things would be to take things back to your reseller and get a refund.  Then purchase something else.


 

 Yeah. Seems like that's the only way to go. I'll think about it 
  
 dL


----------



## mkozlows

jason stoddard said:


> Correct. You have the option of working with them to resolve any issues, or you have the option of purchasing from us and having us directly resolve any issues. Sorry if neither is ideal for you.


 
  
 Is that a common way of operating in the audio world? Because it seems unusual to me -- if I buy a Macbook from Best Buy and it breaks, I don't go back to Best Buy to get it fixed, I go to Apple. Retailers handle returns and exchanges, but manufacturers handle warranty claims and repairs.


----------



## dL.

rmullins08 said:


> He is indeed the co-founder.  I would highly recommend reading through http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up
> 
> It will give you more insight into how they actually run things and why their policies are what they are.


 

 Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I will give it a look to see how their business operates.
  
 It's very important to respect the way any company is operated, even if it is not something that you like. So I'm going to read into their policy and make my informed decision as to whether this company is right for me. So far, their sound quality is definitely right for me hahaha.
  


mkozlows said:


> Is that a common way of operating in the audio world? Because it seems unusual to me -- if I buy a Macbook from Best Buy and it breaks, I don't go back to Best Buy to get it fixed, I go to Apple. Retailers handle returns and exchanges, but manufacturers handle warranty claims and repairs.


 

 I'm glad there's someone that has a similar thought. I almost thought I went mental for a second here.
  
 ---
  
 Again, I'm not here to challenge Jason or anybody here. I just simply want to understand how the company operates and I will make my informed decision as to whether their product and company policy is right for me.
  
 dL


----------



## MattTCG

I've bought and sold more than a half dozen schiit amps and dacs without a single issues during shipping. The heavy styrofoam sleeves make damage a very very small risk. The package would have to be completely abused by the shipping company or reseller to have the type of damage being claimed here. 

The type of support offered by SSchiit I'd say is the best I've ever dealt with from any company audio or otherwise. 

The claims by DL seem rather unrealistic to me. If you buy something from a retailer then you deal with them. The retailers certainly understand this is part of their obligations going in. 

PersonAlly I find it somewhat shameful to try to publicly air your issue to circumvent the process.


----------



## dL.

matttcg said:


> I've bought and sold more than a half dozen schiit amps and dacs without a single issues during shipping. The heavy styrofoam sleeves make damage a very very small risk. The package would have to be completely abused by the shipping company or reseller to have the type of damage being claimed here.
> 
> The type of support offered by SSchiit I'd say is the best I've ever dealt with from any company audio or otherwise.
> 
> ...


 

 So if you buy a Mac from Amazon and you are running into some issues, I guess you will go back to Amazon instead of going to your local Apple store for support?
  
 Personally, I find it more shameful to try to hide the truth as I believe that open communication and feedback is extremely important to growing faith to the consumer-base and growing the company to the next level.
  
 ---
  
 Please note that I am offering a "feedback" to Jason and the company. I am not forcing anyone or holding a gun to anybody's head to circumventing any processes here. I already got my answer as to how their process works, and I am going to decide whether I am going to keep this or move on with another company. I would appreciate if Jason can offer his insight to my feedback.
  
 dL


----------



## madwolfa

dl. said:


> So if you buy a Mac from Amazon and you are running into some issues, I guess you will go back to Amazon instead of going to your local Apple store for support?


 
  
 If you're still within the return window (which is typically 2-4 weeks), then yes, I would go back to Amazon.


----------



## dL.

madwolfa said:


> If you're still within the return window (which is typically 2-4 weeks), then yes, I would go back to Amazon.


 

 Except my reseller does not offer "returns" and they only provide 14 day exchange, even though he personally offered a return for my case. I guess he knows that I'll be going through a lot of the stock if I went with the exchange route.
  
 But now that I learned how the warranty and support of this company works, I think I might take the return route. I'll think about it as there's still an hour to go before the retailer opens.
  
 dL


----------



## madwolfa

dl. said:


> Except my reseller does not offer "returns", even though he personally offered a return for my case. On a second thought, I think I should.


 
  
 Then you took the risk... And yes, you should.


----------



## superjawes

dl. said:


> So if I understand correctly, if I purchased from a reseller, then the warranty, support and communication resides with the reseller? And there's nothing head-office can do to step in and rectify?
> 
> dL


You bought an item from a dealer. That means that the dealer bought the unit, then resold it to you (probably with a markup). This means that the handling of the unit fell into the dealer's hands for a time. If the dealer mismanged the unit and tried to sell as new, then the dealer would be at fault. If Schiit still agreed to pay for the damages, then they would be paying money for that wasn't their fault.

Amazon's return policies might seem great, but the lack of discipline could result in later customers getting mishandled units sold as new, and it probably means that Amazon loses a lot of money. But because they're Amazon, the loss is a drop in the bucket...or ocean.

Apple get away with handling all the "service" for a unit because...they're Apple. Any losses would be covered by volumes. On top of that (and more importantly), companies like Apple only sell through Best Buy and Amazon in order to get units on shelves to be sold (so they can sell products without _needing_ a dedicated store in the area). Whatever the costs of handling service are, they are certainly dwarfed bt the overall number of sales. 

By comparison, Schiit is a very small company. Even if the warranty/repair service was overly strict (and it may be), I would guess that it is only to prevent situations where Schiit pay for something that is the fault of the dealer or customer. It keeps the overhead down so they don't have to build a warranty cost into the price of the product (resulting in lower prices).


----------



## Zojokkeli

It would be nice to see pictures of these faults. But yeah, I'd take the stuff back to the reseller and let him & Schiit figure out the problem. Maybe you can use the refund and buy another pile of Schiit? It goes against all odds that you would run into more faulty products.


----------



## dL.

madwolfa said:


> Then you took the risk... And yes, you should.


 

 Good call. I think I will.
  
 ---
  
 In an ideal world, this would be the perfect experience, but I can understand that it's not possible especially from a small-company standpoint compared to Apple and their big volume and markup.
  
_"I'm sorry to see that you are seeing cosmetic blemishes on our products. We strive to provide and maintain high quality standards throughout and this is definitely something not within our normal practice. But don't worry, we are here to work with you to get you the product you paid for! We stand behind our quality and services. _
  
_I suggest that you try to work with your reseller first to see if they are able to exchange to your satisfaction. However, in the event that they are unwilling to work with you, please consult with us and we will send you a brand new unit that you deserved. Of course, you will need to send it back to us but we will take care of the shipping._
  
_From this, we will discuss with the reseller to ensure that the experience of buying Schiit is consistently excellent. I am sorry for the poor experience you are having but rest assured that we will make it right at the end for you."_
  
 ---
  
 dL


----------



## Saraguie

zojokkeli said:


> It would be nice to see pictures of these faults. But yeah, I'd take the stuff back to the reseller and let him & Schiit figure out the problem. Maybe you can use the refund and buy another pile of Schiit? It goes against all odds that you would run into more faulty products.


 

 This is by far the best solution. My Mojo came 2500 miles and was perfect. I still have the box, in case I am kicked out of the house and need a place to sleep


----------



## dL.

zojokkeli said:


> It would be nice to see pictures of these faults. But yeah, I'd take the stuff back to the reseller and let him & Schiit figure out the problem. Maybe you can use the refund and buy another pile of Schiit? It goes against all odds that you would run into more faulty products.


 
  
 Here you go. You guys can be the judge. As mentioned before, it's not that big of a deal but I am only going through this route because Nick from Schiit mentioned that "Cosmetic defects are not normal on new equipment."
  

  

  
 There are more blemishes (I think 3-4 more spots in total) but I think you get the idea here. And if you are referring to the "index-sized chip", it's not on my unit because remember I opted to keep the original (better) one.
  
 I really want to hear you guy's opinion. Am I just being an OCD dick here? Is this within acceptable standards to the general audiophile community? Because if I am, then I gotta play by the rule.
  
 dL


----------



## ThurstonX

dl. said:


> Here you go. You guys can be the judge. As mentioned before, it's not that big of a deal but I am only going through this route because Nick from Schiit mentioned that "Cosmetic defects are not normal on new equipment."
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  
 I dunno, to my eyes they appear to be machining defects.  I was expecting chunks taken out.  Not saying you shouldn't get a "perfect" unit, or get a refund and buy directly from Schiit.  Good luck.


----------



## dL.

thurstonx said:


> I dunno, to my eyes they appear to be machining defects.  I was expecting chunks taken out.  Not saying you shouldn't get a "perfect" unit, or get a refund and buy directly from Schiit.  Good luck.


 

 Do you have these machining defects on yours? Because if not, then that means I got a bad one. But if most people have a few of these marks like mine then I guess it's within Schiit's normal manufacturing standard and I am expecting too much.
  
 dL


----------



## madwolfa

dl. said:


> Do you have these machining defects on yours? Because if not, then that means I got a bad one. But if most people have a few of these marks like mine then I guess it's within Schiit's normal manufacturing standard and I am expecting too much.


 
  
 All my Schiit is perfect. I would say it's definitely not normal. Some people would live with blemishes as yours, but you don't have to.


----------



## DaemonSire

Personally, I am glad that dL has made this public as I learned a few things.  Even though dL never mentioned who the Canadian dealer is, I'm 99.9% sure I know who it is - seeing as he is in Vancouver and it is listed on Schiit's website as an authorized dealer.
  
 Being Canadian, buying internally can be cheaper for us.  If I were to purchase a Schiit product, I have considered buying from the same company myself.  As of right now, it can be up to $100 cheaper when you factor in the USD > CAD conversion, plus Customs.
  
 To put it in perspective, for a Canadian to buy a Bifrost directly, it is close to 650-660 CAD plus customs (which would be another 13-15% on top of that).  So you are looking at around $750 CAD.  
  
  
  
 However, seeing as you would have to deal with them for any future issues, that savings wouldn't be worth it to me.  I'm surprised at this stance and wouldn't have known this otherwise.  Schiit's website says they are an authorized dealer and the Canadian dealer's website states the same 5 year warranty.  I guess you would just send the unit back to them and they would handle the warranty with Schiit?  Anyways, I would have assumed I would have been able to contact Schiit directly for any support issues.
  
 So for that, I'm thankful that this was made public.  And I applaud Jason for working to take care of the issue as well.


----------



## jeremy205100

If you like how they sound, I would take them back to your dealer, get a refund, and buy from Schiit's site. Yes you will pay more to get it shipped internationally, this is not their fault. But my Asgard 2 was ordered direct from Schiit and I have had 0 problems. After hearing Jason tell stories in another thread of Amazon trying to resell returns to other customers, I am now positively buying from Schiit directly if I order anything else.
  
 Also, you can criticize this company all you want but their products are built like tanks. I accidentally dropped a CD player remote on my Asgard once and I was freaking out because I thought that it would've damaged it, but the Asgard was still perfect. The remote for the CD player was chipped (LOL), but I didn't care about that. In addition, the Asgard 2 outperforms every product I've heard under $500. I can't say whether this is true for all of their products, but it appears to be judging from online reviews.
  
 Jason is 100x more transparent than any other company you will find. Schiit makes products that are bargains. If you don't want to deal with them directly, then don't complain.


----------



## Zojokkeli

dl. said:


> Do you have these machining defects on yours? Because if not, then that means I got a bad one. But if most people have a few of these marks like mine then I guess it's within Schiit's normal manufacturing standard and I am expecting too much.
> 
> dL


 
  
 I went through my Schiit and actually found similar ultra-small blemishes. Can't see them unless I go specifically looking for them, but looks like a metalworks "issue". I can definitely live with it. 
  
 Since we have Jason's attention now, will there be a SYS with one input and two (or more) outputs? I know the original can be used this way, but I'd be more willing to get one specifically designed the other way.


----------



## ThurstonX

dl. said:


> Do you have these machining defects on yours? Because if not, then that means I got a bad one. But if most people have a few of these marks like mine then I guess it's within Schiit's normal manufacturing standard and I am expecting too much.
> 
> dL


 
  
 Just put on the reading glasses and examined my three pieces of Schiit with a flashlight.  And lo, there are very minor machining (or assembly?) defects on the Lyr (tough to get a good look at the Bifrost; not pulling it out to examine), and one scratch on the rear side that I probably put there myself.  Admittedly, the defects aren't in the same places as those you pictured, and are fewer, but I never noticed them (so, obviously, less noticeable).  If I had your unit(s), I might consider what you're considering.  And I'll iterate...
  
 Not saying you shouldn't get a "perfect" unit, or get a refund and buy directly from Schiit.
  
  
 I'd get the refund, since the retailer seems willing, and buy from Schiit.  I agree with @BackToAnalogue about buying habits.  If your local retailer came by his Schiit honestly, and I'm not implying he didn't, then he should definitely open them up to inspect them, esp. after showing you another "new" unit with an even worse defect.  Since you seem to like and respect him, you could lay that advice on him.  I doubt he wants a repeat of this episode.
  
 Good luck.


----------



## dL.

daemonsire said:


> Personally, I am glad that dL has made this public as I learned a few things.  Even though dL never mentioned who the Canadian dealer is, I'm 99.9% sure I know who it is - seeing as he is in Vancouver and it is listed on Schiit's website as an authorized dealer.
> 
> Being Canadian, buying internally can be cheaper for us.  If I were to purchase a Schiit product, I have considered buying from the same company myself.  As of right now, it can be up to $100 cheaper when you factor in the USD > CAD conversion, plus Customs.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for understanding where I am coming from. I have decided to give my local retailer a call and attempt a return when they open, as the owner originally suggested. Then I will own up to the USD and customs premium and buy it directly from Schiit.
  
 The owner of that retailer states that "this is normal" within the audiophile community and you are not going to expect perfection from the price point that I just paid for, even though he understood and acknowledged that I just dropped a grand on these. Then he tries to find defects with other brands that cost double the price, and couldn't find any.
  
 I guess if I have any cosmetic blemishes from the products that I have received from Schiit directly, then you guys can all be the judge.
  
 dL


----------



## Tuco1965

daemonsire said:


> Personally, I am glad that dL has made this public as I learned a few things.  Even though dL never mentioned who the Canadian dealer is, I'm 99.9% sure I know who it is - seeing as he is in Vancouver and it is listed on Schiit's website as an authorized dealer.
> 
> Being Canadian, buying internally can be cheaper for us.  If I were to purchase a Schiit product, I have considered buying from the same company myself.  As of right now, it can be up to $100 cheaper when you factor in the USD > CAD conversion, plus Customs.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm in Canada.  I have purchased from both Schiit and their authorized seller in Canada.  I had a warranty issue with the one purchased from the the authorized dealer and Schiit handled the warranty directly.  No fuss no muss.


----------



## dL.

tuco1965 said:


> I'm in Canada.  I have purchased from both Schiit and their authorized seller in Canada.  I had a warranty issue with the one purchased from the the authorized dealer and Schiit handled the warranty directly.  No fuss no muss.


 

 Interesting that you were able to get support from Schiit despite buying from an authorized dealer, but that contradicts with what the co-founder have said previously 2 pages ago:
  


dl. said:


> So if I understand correctly, if I purchased from a reseller, then the warranty, support and communication resides with the reseller? And there's nothing head-office can do to step in and rectify?
> 
> dL


 


jason stoddard said:


> Correct. You have the option of working with them to resolve any issues, or you have the option of purchasing from us and having us directly resolve any issues. Sorry if neither is ideal for you.


 
  
 Maybe I am mis-interpreting something here.
  
 dL


----------



## Tuco1965

I wasn't dealing with a cosmetic issue but a hardware one.


----------



## StefanJK

Why I'm not in retail...okay, not the only reason.  But I'm not envying Jason right now.  More on other threads...


----------



## Shini44

.


----------



## dL.

I just got my refund back. The owner didn't hesitate nor does he care about my business anymore. I'll gladly take it elsewhere from now on.

I would be cautious to any Canadians contemplating of buying anything from Headphone Bar (www.headphonebar.com). If there's something wrong cosmetically, you are out of luck. At least I got a refund thankfully but YMMV.

Gonna go home and order online from Schiit. 

dL


----------



## BeatsWork

dl. said:


> I just got my refund back. The owner didn't hesitate nor does he care about my business anymore. I'll gladly take it elsewhere from now on.
> 
> I would be cautious to any Canadians contemplating of buying anything from Headphone Bar (www.headphonebar.com). If there's something wrong cosmetically, you are out of luck.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Glad to see reseller didn't sour you on Schiit.  I always order direct from Mfg. when I can for exactly this scenario ...


----------



## dL.

Does anyone think Bifrost will have an update to Bifrost 2 anytime soon?
  
 dL


----------



## superjawes

dl. said:


> Does anyone think Bifrost will have an update to Bifrost 2 anytime soon?
> 
> dL


Never. Bifrost can get upgrades (see Uber analog). If Schiit develop a better analog stage, they will release it as an upgrade (not as a "Bifrost 2").


----------



## madwolfa

dl. said:


> Does anyone think Bifrost will have an update to Bifrost 2 anytime soon?


 
  
 No, Bifrost is a modular platform, so all the updates (in fact there were two already) are released as upgrade cards.


----------



## mkozlows

dl. said:


> Does anyone think Bifrost will have an update to Bifrost 2 anytime soon?


 
  
 Schiit has been pretty emphatic that there's no need for a Bifrost 2 -- if there's an update, it'd be to the upgradeable module part, which is upgradeable, so.
  
 As to whether there'll be an update to that anytime soon... no idea.


----------



## Tuco1965

I don't think a Bifrost 2 is in the works since the current Bifrost is upgradeable.  As for new upgrades, only Schiit knows that one.  It's an excellent dac in uber form.
  
 Damn slow on the draw these days!


----------



## rmullins08

dl. said:


> Does anyone think Bifrost will have an update to Bifrost 2 anytime soon?
> 
> dL


 
  
  


superjawes said:


> Never. Bifrost can get upgrades (see Uber analog). If Schiit develop a better analog stage, they will release it as an upgrade (not as a "Bifrost 2").


 
  
  


mkozlows said:


> Schiit has been pretty emphatic that there's no need for a Bifrost 2 -- if there's an update, it'd be to the upgradeable module part, which is upgradeable, so.
> 
> As to whether there'll be an update to that anytime soon... no idea.


 
  
 Is there an echo in here? Ha
  
 Somebody mentioned it with the release of the Modi/Magni 2 and Jason responded
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family/45#post_11123907


----------



## dL.

Sounds good. I'm going to place the order from Schiit then:
  
 - Bifrost Uber w/ USB
 - Lyr2
 - PYST RCA cable (maybe)
  
 Do you guys suggest ordering their branded RCA cable? I technically have a spare at home already from Audioengine, though it's long but I can always hide it behind the shelves. Would it make a difference to justify the $20?
  
 dL


----------



## madwolfa

dl. said:


> Sounds good. I'm going to place the order from Schiit then:
> 
> - Bifrost Uber w/ USB
> - Lyr2
> ...


 
  
 Great choice!
  
 Regarding the PYST, the only difference is the right length for stacking. They're also solid cables and the value is good, so...
  
 I personally use some Blue Jeans RCA cables I had, they could be shorter, but it doesn't bother me.


----------



## dL.

I just plugged back my Fiio E9 and E17 and it's embarrassingly bad haha. I'm missing all the details. Can't wait to get those Schiit back.
  
 dL


----------



## superjawes

Holy echochamber, Batman!

As for this:


dl. said:


> Do you guys suggest ordering their branded RCA cable? I technically have a spare at home already from Audioengine, though it's long but I can always hide it behind the shelves. Would it make a difference to justify the $20?




I'll copy this:


madwolfa said:


> Regarding the PYST, the only difference is the right length for stacking. They're also solid cables and the value is good, so...
> 
> I personally use some Blue Jeans RCA cables I had, they could be shorter, but it doesn't bother me.



If you need RCA cables of appropriate length, PYST are good, but you can just as easily get usable cables from Monoprice, etc.


----------



## dL.

Order placed! How are their shipping usually? 
  
 I'm hoping I can get it before Christmas so I can enjoy them during the holiday break, given that they don't come cosmetically blemished.
  
 dL


----------



## rmullins08

I've always found them to be very quick on the turnaround.  For items in stock shipping notification by the end of the next business day is very common (have had a few instances of same business day).  I go for the cheapest fedex which takes 4 business days from CA to NY.


----------



## ThurstonX

Just got my Wyrd 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... and ditto on using the cheapest FedEx option.  Sadly, my Shorty USB cable, which should have been delivered today, is stuck in the wonderful USPS system.  Go figure.  Hope my old Belkin USB cable is USB 2...


----------



## Byronb

> Damn, do I send back my Alpha Dog Pro's and buy the Alpha Prime's or just enjoy 'em. I'm leaning towards just enjoying them. These damn forums get me going and wanting all I'm reading about. LOL


 
  
 I hate to break it to you, but the differences between the Prime and the Alpha are pretty enormous. I would council getting the Prime's if you can manage the cost difference.


----------



## cggkevin1976

So for all your complaining about the minor cosmetic issues you never said if you liked the sound or not. From what I saw is anybody ever going to get that close to actually see them? Or could it be that you didn't like the sound and used the cosmetic issues to force a refund instead of the local retailers exchange only policy.


----------



## madwolfa

cggkevin1976 said:


> So for all your complaining about the minor cosmetic issues you never said if you liked the sound or not. From what I saw is anybody ever going to get that close to actually see them? Or could it be that you didn't like the sound and used the cosmetic issues to force a refund instead of the local retailers exchange only policy.


 
  
 In fact dL stated multiple times he was more than satisfied with the sound he was getting.


----------



## SuperU

dl. said:


> Order placed! How are their shipping usually?
> 
> I'm hoping I can get it before Christmas so I can enjoy them during the holiday break, given that they don't come cosmetically blemished.
> 
> dL


 
 They shipped out my Schiit in just a couple of business hours after ordering. It was received at my freight forwarders in the US in just a couple of days. I'd say they were blindingly fast. 
  
 I also bought their PYST cables. Figured if I'm getting the good Schiit, might as well get the cables they recommend as well.


----------



## dL.

madwolfa said:


> In fact dL stated multiple times he was more than satisfied with the sound he was getting.


 

 Thanks for answering that for me. Yes, I am more than satisfied with the sound quality, otherwise I wouldn't have placed an order again. In fact, I am paying MORE to go with this direct route, but I am willing to do so for the sheer confidence that they will take better care of me. 
  
 And to clarify, I never proposed a refund to Headphone Bar. In fact, it was actually the opposite. Instead of working with me to make my sale, the owner suggest that I should just get a refund, further implying that he does not want my business. If you ask me, I prefer to buy it locally as I can enjoy it now, but he's unwilling to open more units.
  
 I'm just praying Jason is not going to announce a Bifrost 2 in January or else I'm going to feel pretty bad haha.
  
 dL


----------



## dL.

superu said:


> They shipped out my Schiit in just a couple of business hours after ordering. It was received at my freight forwarders in the US in just a couple of days. I'd say they were blindingly fast.
> 
> I also bought their PYST cables. Figured if I'm getting the good Schiit, might as well get the cables they recommend as well.


 

 Do they send out a tracking number for you to track?
  
 dL


----------



## SuperU

dl. said:


> I did. And Nick (from tech@schiit.com) kept brushing it off with one sentence response such as:
> 
> "No it's not normal. Go talk to your retailer." So I don't know really know what you mean by excellent customer service. They do reply fast, but all within 2 sentences as if they are tweeting me or something.
> 
> ...


 
 That's funny, that's how he wrote to me too. At one point I even said that I was hoping for longer and more complete answers. LOL  But finally realizing he would probably keep on in the same way, I began writing specific questions that he could answer in a line or so. Seemed to work out very well. In addition to helping me with their equipment, he was instrumental in pointing the way to headphones that I ended up buying. Overall he was very helpful. Would have definitely preferred longer exchanges, but am grateful for the help I got - and over the weekend often late in the evening.


----------



## rmullins08

dl. said:


> Do they send out a tracking number for you to track?
> 
> dL


 
  
 Yep you should get an e-mail from info@schiit.com with the tracking number (usually well before it hits the carriers system)


----------



## scizzro

dl. said:


> I'm just praying Jason is not going to announce a Bifrost 2 in January or else I'm going to feel pretty bad haha.


 
 Hah, I said the same thing in another thread and was told I make bad assumptions =P
  
 I think everyone else is right, rather than make a Bifrost 2, Schiit would just release new upgrades for the base Bifrost. The "uber" analog card upgrade is supposedly modeled off of Gungnir's circuitry - that makes me wonder if a new Uber 2 upgrade will be released with Yggy's circuitry =O
  
 Or is that too far fetched a leap of logic?


----------



## swspiers

scizzro said:


> Hah, I said the same thing in another thread and was told I make bad assumptions =P
> 
> I think everyone else is right, rather than make a Bifrost 2, Schiit would just release new upgrades for the base Bifrost. The "uber" analog card upgrade is supposedly modeled off of Gungnir's circuitry - that makes me wonder if a new Uber 2 upgrade will be released with Yggy's circuitry =O
> 
> Or is that too far fetched a leap of logic?


 

 I think that's been a lost a bit due to the lower-priced Schiit lately.  One HUGE advantage to Schiit is the upgrade path with their mid and upper-tier stuff. And it's not totally un-heard of in the industry.  Ohm Acoustics does the same thing with their speakers, offer upgrades when new models come out.
  
 Mr. Speakers seems to have honestly tried to do it with the Alpha Dogs to Primes, but it doesn't seem to be working out too well for them.


----------



## SuperU

jason stoddard said:


> I'd like to know about this as well. That said, Nick is not a salesman, so he can come off as brusque. I've monitored many of his responses.


 
 Well in Nick's defense, even with short responses, he was more than helpful. And the dedication he must have is amazing. I had gone to a concert on Saturday night and my email kept beeping with his responses. Amazing. And he at first didn't seem to want to offer me his ideas on headphones, but when I pushed a little he was beyond helpful. In fact, I found out what I bought from Schiit and MrSeakers is exactly what he uses. So a big shout out to Nick. Head-fi.org and you are why I bought my Schiit. Further to see Jason's responses here is just incredible. I can't wait to get my hands on my Schiit. Thank you Nick. There will be more purchases from me in the future.


----------



## SuperU

dl. said:


> Do they send out a tracking number for you to track?
> 
> dL


 
 Sure did. Simply amazing follow through on their part.


----------



## SuperU

byronb said:


> I hate to break it to you, but the differences between the Prime and the Alpha are pretty enormous. I would council getting the Prime's if you can manage the cost difference.


 
 Oh lord... and I just decided to be happy with what I got. Well, they are probably on their way on the boat now. I think I will be extremely content since I have not heard anything anywhere near this level before. And in the future, I will buy the Alpha Primes. 
  
 Thanks for your thoughts. I will definitely have something to look forward too.


----------



## dL.

Sounds good. I look forward to receiving them soon!
  
 dL


----------



## Byronb

superu said:


> Oh lord... and I just decided to be happy with what I got. Well, they are probably on their way on the boat now. I think I will be extremely content since I have not heard anything anywhere near this level before. And in the future, I will buy the Alpha Primes.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts. I will definitely have something to look forward too.


 
 I am sure you will love the Alpha's, and yes it is something to look forward to. As for me I am done buying headphones for a good while. But, amps and dacs, well that is another story!


----------



## Billheiser

dl. said:


> Order placed! How are their shipping usually?
> 
> I'm hoping I can get it before Christmas so I can enjoy them during the holiday break, *given that they don't come cosmetically blemished*.
> 
> dL


 
 That's sort of a cheap shot.
 FWIW, I've bought five Schiit products over the last couple years and they have all been in perfect condition.


----------



## BeatsWork

superu said:


> Well in Nick's defense, even with short responses, he was more than helpful. And the dedication he must have is amazing. I had gone to a concert on Saturday night and my email kept beeping with his responses. Amazing. And he at first didn't seem to want to offer me his ideas on headphones, but when I pushed a little he was beyond helpful. In fact, I found out what I bought from Schiit and MrSeakers is exactly what he uses. So a big shout out to Nick. Head-fi.org and you are why I bought my Schiit. Further to see Jason's responses here is just incredible. I can't wait to get my hands on my Schiit. Thank you Nick. There will be more purchases from me in the future.


 
  
 That's completely in line with Schiit business model. Maximum performance at a given price point without the frills. Customer service is the same way. Quick and to the point. If they can answer your question with a Yes or No they will. If you want your accessories and answers in a velvet bag you'll need to look elsewhere (and pay much more for same performance).


----------



## dL.

billheiser said:


> That's sort of a cheap shot.
> FWIW, I've bought five Schiit products over the last couple years and they have all been in perfect condition.




Guess you haven't checked out the past 4-5 pages. It's okay. I don't blame you.

dL


----------



## money4me247

tuco1965 said:


> I don't think a Bifrost 2 is in the works since the current Bifrost is upgradeable.  As for new upgrades, only Schiit knows that one.  It's an excellent dac in uber form.
> 
> Damn slow on the draw these days!


 
 i agree. it appears that schiit will simply be upgrading the current bifrost. makes me a bit sad though, because i love seeing upgraded products with the number 2 after their name hahah.


----------



## Billheiser

dl. said:


> Guess you haven't checked out the past 4-5 pages. It's okay. I don't blame you.
> 
> 
> 
> dL



 

Yeah I read it. You did enough trashing of the people you dealt with and that gratuitous last jab was uncalled for.


----------



## ThurstonX

Self-indulgent "night scene" photos, with gratuitous Lyr shot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I think the Herbie's look pretty cool.


----------



## dL.

billheiser said:


> ...and that gratuitous last jab was uncalled for.


 
   
 Let's see...
  
 Quote:


billheiser said:


> That's sort of a cheap shot.


 
  
 I wonder who started first. If you want to voice your opinion further about me, feel free to PM.
  
 ---
  
 Anyways, let's keep this thread about the brand again and I'll post an update when the new unit arrives. Thanks!
  
 dL


----------



## Byronb

Beautiful pic, Thurston!


----------



## MattTCG

dl. said:


> I wonder who started first. If you want to voice your opinion further about me, feel free to PM.
> 
> ---
> 
> ...


I'll agree with Bill here. I'm disappointed with the way you played this whole thing out publicly. I'll be happy to share my opinion in a pm or publicly.


----------



## Chozart

matttcg said:


> I'll agree with Bill here. I'm disappointed with the way you played this whole thing out publicly. I'll be happy to share my opinion in a pm or publicly.


 

 Seconded. I also agree with Bill.


----------



## madwolfa

Ah. Come on, guys. "Let it go"... (earworm for y'all)


----------



## dL.

Thanks for expressing your side! But anyways, I personally don't feel we should continue discussing about this drama until I have further updates on this case. 

Let's just move on and discuss about the brand and the product again. If you want to voice out your opinion, just PM me to keep this thread clean again. Thanks guys!

dL


----------



## jaywillin

dl. said:


> Thanks for expressing your side! But anyways,* I personally don't feel we should continue discussing about this drama* until I have further updates on this case.
> 
> Let's just move on and discuss about the brand and the product again. If you want to voice out your opinion, just PM me to keep this thread clean again. Thanks guys!
> 
> dL


 
 agreed, and that would have been nice a quite few pages ago, but glad to see we can proceed
  
 i think you'll find dealing directly with jason and his minions to be a more satisfactory experience.
 good luck with your gear, i had the lyr/uber frost and its oustanding


----------



## reddog

dl. said:


> Order placed! How are their shipping usually?
> 
> I'm hoping I can get it before Christmas so I can enjoy them during the holiday break, given that they don't come cosmetically blemished.
> 
> dL



Both of my units from Schiit Audio have come to me in pristine condition. My friends bifrost came in pristine condition, and countless others, on this thread have stated how good their Schiit was, so how can you assume your units will not be in pristine condition. Furthermore if you are unhappy with said given product, you can return it. Moreover if you question the quality of Schiit Audio's products, why buy from them in the first place. Finally why come onto this thread to take pot shots at the company before you even got said piece of equipment? I question your motives for such irrational behaviour, unless you have some hidden agenda or prejudice towards Schiit Audio.
Andrew Reddog Jones


----------



## BackToAnalogue

thurstonx said:


> delirious lab said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have enough of a twisted mind, I got the Rush reference before the unintended humor.
> ...



 


Spot on. The best jokes have two punchlines. And you get the second one a few microseconds (or seconds even) after the first one.

:>) spoils that.


----------



## jaywillin

my experience with schiit is, every piece i've owned, and it's A LOT ,  lyr's vali's, bifrosts , modi's multiple times, bought, sold, bought again, and repeat, has been in perfect shape except for some normal wear in the used pieces.
 and as for schiit's willingness at customer service, even with the used pieces i've sent in, they went above and beyond  their "obligation"
 in my time in head-fi i've had many interactions  with an assortment of vendors. almost all were pleasant
 few were unpleasant, which i don't  air too much publically . and when i have had these WOW experiences, even then i don't go into
 too much detail, because a company can't always do the same thing for everyone. if i say it publicly  then someone will tell the company, "well you did it for this other guy, why can't you do it for me" and then said company has a pissed off customer saying how bad they are 
 to the general public
 i've had two WOW , thanks !! moments, one was schiit, one was bryston. , so i say thanks to the both of you !


----------



## BackToAnalogue

Deep joy this morning in the 'BackToAnalogue' household. My new Bifrost Uber has just arrived.

A quick once over and running my finger around the edges and it is perfect, and could probably be pressed into service as a paper cutter if required. No chips or any other blemish.

Looking at the first photo a few pages above and comparing, mine definitely does not have that but is probably from the same batch.

The first photo actually shows amazingly clearly, precisely what has happened; and I bet the guys at Schiit will realise as soon as they look at it.

The metal plate is obviously first cut to a very clean crisp edge and then drilled. Then it is bent into the long U shape ready for the internals to be slotted in and screwed into place. The one in that photo has a very slight stress mark all along the bend and that is what has caused the 'ripple' at the end. It has happened because it is very stiff steel which is not designed for bending. It is extremely strong, so not in any way a structural problem, more a sign of its strength if anything. This process would never be used for a mass produced product because it is too expensive. 

If my BiFrost did have that slight blemish then it wouldn't worry me at all and I would quite happily keep it.

 I think that if I am buying a piece of audio kit, or any other type of technology, from a company that is producing leading edge designs and doing so at a price that is affordable to a normal enthusiast then I accept that I am taking some risk myself on teething problems and other faults. Certainly if there is any software involved then you are beta testing and you can see this all over the DAP forums. I don't blame people for finding that frustrating. But you are getting some pretty amazing kit ahead of anyone else in return for the possible inconvenience.


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> I'll agree with Bill here. I'm disappointed with the way you played this whole thing out publicly. I'll be happy to share my opinion in a pm or publicly.


 

 +1


----------



## hodgjy

Currawong is probably watching.  Let's keep this thread on topic to avoid it getting locked down.


----------



## swspiers

hodgjy said:


> Currawong is probably watching.  Let's keep this thread on topic to avoid it getting locked down.




Yeah. I felt the eye...


----------



## jaywillin

swspiers said:


> Yeah. I felt the eye...


 
 was the back of your neck tingling ?? 
  
 and i slapped the back of my own head !


----------



## MattTCG

I continue to tip my hat to Schiit for what I used to call best bang for the buck in the business. Now are just some of the best products out there period. The lyr 2 really impresses me over the original version not just with the added functionality but the improvement in sound staging and refinement. Just a great amp.
  
 Thanks to Nick for all the quick and short responses. I for one appreciate a nice simple and direct answer.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> I continue to tip my hat to Schiit for what I used to call best bang for the buck in the business. Now are just some of the best products out there period. The lyr 2 really impresses me over the original version not just with the added functionality but the improvement in sound staging and refinement. Just a great amp.
> 
> Thanks to Nick for all the quick and short responses. I for one appreciate a nice simple and direct answer.


 
 you don't call it that anymore ?


----------



## BackToAnalogue

swspiers said:


> hodgjy said:
> 
> 
> > Currawong is probably watching.  Let's keep this thread on topic to avoid it getting locked down.
> ...



 


Wow this is starting to feel like an episode of 'Lost'.

Could someone tell me who the mysterious Currawong is and what we may have done to incur his wrath?


----------



## MattTCG

jaywillin said:


> you don't call it that anymore ?


 
  
 Now that you mention, yes I still do consider their products great bang for the buck. They compete with much more expensive gear that I've owned for sure. But now they are impressive regardless of the price considered IMO.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> Now that you mention, yes I still do consider their products great bang for the buck. They compete with much more expensive gear that I've owned for sure. But now they are impressive regardless of the price considered IMO.



i kinda thought so
me too i got a mini schiit stack right now , its jam up


----------



## MattTCG

^^ What hp's are you driving with the new stack?


----------



## swspiers

backtoanalogue said:


> swspiers said:
> 
> 
> > hodgjy said:
> ...




One of the moderators. They keep these discussions from derailing threads too much. He's actually pretty funny, and the majority of us seem to respect him.


----------



## ThurstonX

byronb said:


> Beautiful pic, Thurston!


 
  
 Thanks, Lord Byron 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I do love me some Schiit.


----------



## jaywillin

matttcg said:


> ^^ What hp's are you driving with the new stack?


 
 325e, t1, and lcd2f, although joedoe has had them for a while, so hearing the f's with the vali/modi will be a first
 oh, and i also have a woo wa3


----------



## reddington

Am getting a Vali but its the US version. I am from India and possibly will need a step down converter.

My question is to Jason and anyone who might me able to help. Is using a step down converter going to be risky for the amp?

It is only temporary and will order a 230v wallwart after a month or so.

Had to get the Vali from Amazon due to very stringent time constraints. Someone is carrying it back for me.

The amps are the same right? Only the adapters are different. Or am I wrong?


----------



## MachBot

reddington said:


> Am getting a Vali but its the US version. I am from India and possibly will need a step down converter.
> 
> My question is to Jason and anyone who might me able to help. Is using a step down converter going to be risky for the amp?
> 
> ...


 
 Schiit ships out using FedEx, I'd imagine going direct through Schiit would be faster.


----------



## Defiant00

reddington said:


> Am getting a Vali but its the US version. I am from India and possibly will need a step down converter.
> 
> My question is to Jason and anyone who might me able to help. Is using a step down converter going to be risky for the amp?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Using a step down converter should be fine.
  
 Correct, the amp is the same regardless.


----------



## reddington

machbot said:


> Schiit ships out using FedEx, I'd imagine going direct through Schiit would be faster.




Actually was thinking the same. A decent step down transformer will set me back 30$ anyways. So overnight delivery is very much an option.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> I continue to tip my hat to Schiit for what I used to call best bang for the buck in the business. Now are just some of the best products out there period. The lyr 2 really impresses me over the original version not just with the added functionality but the improvement in sound staging and refinement. Just a great amp.
> 
> Thanks to Nick for all the quick and short responses. I for one appreciate a nice simple and direct answer.



What tubes have you rolled in your lyr 2? I have used Gold Lions, Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes, current production Telefunken TK E88CC tubes as well as the stock tubes.


----------



## IncredulousD

beatswork said:


> Are you sure you have most current driver for MB? Checked to see if chipset mfg has more current driver? Selected correct output in Foobar or whatever you're using? My experience on Toslink is that it works or it doesn't. No in between. Could be flaw in cable erroring out at higher rate but ...


 
 Thanks for taking the time to reply. I do indeed have the latest drivers, etc. Motherboard is an ASUS Z87 Plus and the manual states it would be able to put out 24/192 so I was a bit annoyed. I wanted to hand down my Essence STX to a friend who just purchased some headphones and pass on a nice audio experience, but I'm going to hang onto the card now for the coaxial out. From experience I know that it can push 192 through the Line Out. Unfortunately in Foobar with WASAPI it will straight up not play a 24/192 album, only 96 or the usual ones below that. Cable came in today, so I'll test it out and report back if that fixed the problem this evening!


----------



## Audiotic

You could also try buy in EU at the official dealer (where they have the 230V version) and ask them to ship? Or is that a stupid suggestion.


----------



## Audiotic

Was in reply to : Quote:
Originally Posted by MachBot link


Schiit ships out using FedEx, I'd imagine going direct through Schiit would be faster.



Actually was thinking the same. A decent step down transformer will set me back 30$ anyways. So overnight delivery is very much an option.


----------



## StanD

byronb said:


> Beautiful pic, Thurston!


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> Thanks, Lord Byron
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 We know that Rangy took the picture and you're taking credit for his work. When will this exploitation end? You better make sure he never sees "Planet of the Apes."


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> We know that Rangy took the picture and you're taking credit for his work. When will this exploitation end? You better make sure he never sees "Planet of the Apes."


 
  
 See it?  He's been a consulting "technical expert" dating back to the Heston original.  He makes me watch them all on a regular basis to keep me honest 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will say, Rangy loves his Schiit, too, and the night scene shots were his idea.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> See it?  He's been a consulting "technical expert" dating back to the Heston original.  He makes me watch them all on a regular basis to keep me honest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is where I say, you're fulla schiit.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Hey you schittheads! I am looking into becoming and audiophile and am heavily considering the schitt stack. Do any of you have experience with the uber version of the magni and modi? I know technically the uber versions are superior but I don't know if their mathematical differences in stats lead to a very perceivable difference as I don't need fancy inputs or outputs as I just plan to use a headphone setup on my desktop with just a pair of headphones (probably the jvc ha-sz2000 bass cannons). Thanks for your input guys. Sorry for my schitty knowledge of schitt products.


----------



## rmullins08

thedragonguy said:


> Hey you schittheads! I am looking into becoming and audiophile and am heavily considering the schitt stack. Do any of you have experience with the uber version of the magni and modi? I know technically the uber versions are superior but I don't know if their mathematical differences in stats lead to a very perceivable difference as I don't need fancy inputs or outputs as I just plan to use a headphone setup on my desktop with just a pair of headphones (probably the jvc ha-sz2000 bass cannons). Thanks for your input guys. Sorry for my schitty knowledge of schitt products.




The new modi magni 2s with uber versions were just released, so I don't think anybody actually has the combo of both the ubers yet to comment on them verse the non uber


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Was hoping maybe has heard a demo set or something lol. I dont want to spend the money if its not noticeable...but if it is i want the ubers lol.


----------



## scizzro

thedragonguy said:


> Was hoping maybe has heard a demo set or something lol. I dont want to spend the money if its not noticeable...but if it is i want the ubers lol.


 
 If I were in your situation, I would go for both ubers. It's going to be a great combo for the money, and they will most likely sell better used than their non-uber counterparts. So when you go to upgrade your system (it will happen eventually, the saying here normally goes "Welcome to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet."), you should have an easy time dumping the ubers to fund your upgrade. Just something else to think about.
  
 In terms of musical quality, there may be a small difference, but I think (I'm guessing here) most of the cost difference comes from more bells and whistles with the inputs/outputs and stuff.


----------



## BeatsWork

Finally got my Schiit together


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Yeah. I mean its only an extra hundred. Im so tempted to just order the phones and the schitt stack. Just debating if i want to make the leap up from my current turtle beach xp 500s.


----------



## scizzro

thedragonguy said:


> Yeah. I mean its only an extra hundred. Im so tempted to just order the phones and the schitt stack. Just debating if i want to make the leap up from my current turtle beach xp 500s.


 
 If you do make the leap, you would never look back. I've never personally tried the xp500's but I have tried other headphones marketed to gamers. And they've all been crap. They offer things like dolby surround to give gamers an idea of direction of footsteps/gunshots and stuff, but that's not ideal for listening to music. 
  
 If you do order and find it not worth the dough, you can always return the stuff and go back to your turtle beaches.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Its so tempting...but my wallet is afraid of getting into this hobby. I already have expensive hobbies lol.


----------



## madwolfa

thedragonguy said:


> Its so tempting...but my wallet is afraid of getting into this hobby. I already have expensive hobbies lol.


 
  
 Well, just get yourself Ubers and be done with it. They might serve you a lifetime and be the only stack you'd ever need.


----------



## scizzro

madwolfa said:


> Well, just get yourself Ubers and be done with it. They might serve you a lifetime and be the only stack you'd ever need.


 
 Did you get into the hobby with the same idea? Your sig looks pretty damn expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought I could be happy with an entry-fi system, but my ears just got bored of the same sound signature all the time. I began wanting different headphones for listening to different genres which is leading now to a desire for a better amp and source to go with the new headphones I'm getting.
  
 I hope he can be happy forever with his first purchase though


----------



## madwolfa

scizzro said:


> Did you get into the hobby with the same idea? Your sig looks pretty damn expensive


 
  
 In fact, I was content with my old head-fi gear for more than 10 years without changing a single component.
  
 Then I got some cash to burn and decided it was time for a change... (yeah, I've turned 30 and became bored)


----------



## reddington

audiotic said:


> You could also try buy in EU at the official dealer (where they have the 230V version) and ask them to ship? Or is that a stupid suggestion.




Not stupid at all. The only thing stupid is how much they charge for customs here. 33%.

I will have to pay around 200$ including shipping for the Vali. More so if I get it from EU.

Am trying to get a friend who's in US for a few days to pick one up for me. Since he will be returning in 3 days. Was trying to figure out if the package will reach him in time.


----------



## Chozart

beatswork said:


> Finally got my Schiit together


 
 That Schiit got some company! Good to see there are still plenty of people who spin Vinyl. That Schiit right there will serve you for a long, long time.


----------



## BeatsWork

chozart said:


> That Schiit got some company! Good to see there are still plenty of people who spin Vinyl. That Schiit right there will serve you for a long, long time.


 
  
 And if I spin Dubstep I can make the neighbor's lights flicker


----------



## StefanJK

reddington said:


> Not stupid at all. The only thing stupid is how much they charge for customs here. 33%.


 
 I didn't know India still had 33% customs...I assumed the last 15 years had gotten rid of that. Oh well.  How's the local audio industry?  India should be able to make good stuff, like Eastern Europe and China.  Barriers to entry are not high.


----------



## reddington

Its still there. Trying to ship in used electronics is risky too. There's a huge fine if it gets flagged by customs.

The audio market is decent. Nice if you are into very-cost-effective DIY. The Hi Fi market is decent here. Respectable options around if you are into Speaker setups.

Head Fi though is almost non existant. The only HP amps available locally are Fiios. Importing is very much the only option.


----------



## Chozart

reddington said:


> Its still there. Trying to ship in used electronics is risky too. There's a huge fine if it gets flagged by customs.
> 
> The audio market is decent. Nice if you are into very-cost-effective DIY. The Hi Fi market is decent here. Respectable options around if you are into Speaker setups.
> 
> Head Fi though is almost non existant. The only HP amps available locally are Fiios. Importing is very much the only option.


 

 Ugh. And I thought this hobby was already expensive without those excessive fees....
  
 Well, I hope your Schiit will arrive in good condition. Once you (finally) have it, you'll be set for a long time!  I am thoroughly enjoying my Bifrost/Asgard2 stack!


----------



## tonykaz

Customs Duty,
  
 Can be in response to imposed duties of….
  
 Acts as a Trade Balancer-Barier, 
  
 It protects local industry,
  
 It denies a market to dumping practices. 
  
 Customs Duties are usually at the discretion of the Customs Agent who can and often does adjust for a particular Importer ( tribute ) .  
  
 Tony in Michigan


----------



## reddington

tonykaz said:


> Customs Duty,
> 
> Can be in response to imposed duties of….
> 
> ...




Technicalities I understand and support. Trade balance is an important factor and I will agree to that with very little knowledge of the technicalities associated.

But as far as protecting local industries go, the way Indian Custom tariffs operate makes little sense.

The setting of duties in India is done with a huge political undertone.

A large part of India being of economically weaker sections, the government, irrespective of the party in power, seems to be concentrating its efforts on minimizing customs when it comes to essential accessories.

Take electronics for example something like a torch, batteries and led bulbs will attract little custom duties. That in turn enables manufacturers in China to flood the Indian market with cheap products.

But these small industries have indegenous existence as well. These can't compete with cheaper Chinese products even after the duties are taken into account. Most cases, they close down.

In short, lower prices for essential goods will please the economically backwards classes which in turn will translate into votes. Local industries closing down, hardly anyone will notice in four short years or at the least cheaper prices for essential products will reflect favourably upon the party in power.

When it comes to high end electronics (which btw has 0 local industries locally), hardly anyone will care and for anyone who can afford these products, voting for a particular party is not going to be affected by the customs duty. Even if it does to a certain percentage, that number is miniscule.


----------



## BeatsWork

reddington said:


> Technicalities I understand and support. Trade balance is an important factor and I will agree to that with very little knowledge of the technicalities associated.
> 
> But as far as protecting local industries go, the way Indian Custom tariffs operate makes little sense.
> 
> ...


 
  
 #Way off Topic Schiit  = Eyes of Currawon


----------



## reddington

beatswork said:


> #Way off Topic Schiit  = Eyes of Currawon




Oops apologies. Mods can delete the not-so-schiit post if deemed necessary.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

To those versed in Schitt products and business practices: Are there ever any holiday deals on any of these schitty products? I am really considering the new schitt stack but wonder if i might be able to save a few bucks. Thanks guys! (Total newb to head-fi so I'm not sure if many/which manufacturers do sales).


----------



## Chozart

thedragonguy said:


> To those versed in Schitt products and business practices: Are there ever any holiday deals on any of these schitty products? I am really considering the new schitt stack but wonder if i might be able to save a few bucks. Thanks guys! (Total newb to head-fi so I'm not sure if many/which manufacturers do sales).


 

 Schiit has no sales, period. So no Holiday deals either.
  
 However, I think that they *always* have sales 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 given that their prices are insanely low for the quality offered.


----------



## superjawes

thedragonguy said:


> To those versed in Schitt products and business practices: Are there ever any holiday deals on any of these schitty products? I am really considering the new schitt stack but wonder if i might be able to save a few bucks. Thanks guys! (Total newb to head-fi so I'm not sure if many/which manufacturers do sales).


A Passage from the Book of Schiit.

(No.)


----------



## rmullins08

thedragonguy said:


> To those versed in Schitt products and business practices: Are there ever any holiday deals on any of these schitty products? I am really considering the new schitt stack but wonder if i might be able to save a few bucks. Thanks guys! (Total newb to head-fi so I'm not sure if many/which manufacturers do sales).


 
  
 Superjawes beat me to the punch on the link from schiits site.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Thanks guys! I already like their prices so thats good!


----------



## Wronskian

I love my Schiit.  I have the Loki, Modi and Magni.  I don't know what the upgrades are for the 2, but I don't think I am missing anything.  Gotta be careful about writing the numeral 2 and Schiit in the same message.  Unless there is something really earth shattering available, I can't see any reason to purchase any other brand.  
  
 Schiit doesn't do special sales and they give a good explanation on their site.  Besides their prices are really good.


----------



## scizzro

Well let's get this train back on the tracks then.
  
 I'm really grateful for Schiit. It has a great spot in the market that sacrifices bells and whistles for pure sound quality. They match those kind of products with employees that actually care about their customers. 
  
 I think a lot of people now who are looking for gear upgrades automatically consider Schiit as a top choice depending on their wants. That's really amazing considering they've been around for less than 5 years. 
  
 Cheers, Schiit, and I'm really looking forward to what you have planned for the future.


----------



## jsiegel14072

Quote:Long live the King (and Queen) of audiophlie Schiit! 





scizzro said:


> Well let's get this train back on the tracks then.
> 
> I'm really grateful for Schiit. It has a great spot in the market that sacrifices bells and whistles for pure sound quality. They match those kind of products with employees that actually care about their customers.
> 
> ...


----------



## atbglenn

jsiegel14072 said:


>


 
  
 I'd say I'm a lifetime member of this schiithouse. Great company!


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Just bought the Über Schitt Stack. I can't wait to be an owner of schitt!


----------



## Xerber

I bought a Schiit Lyr 2 last Thursday as an upgrade to my Little Dot MK3. Design and finish are great for the price and it is a definite improvement with my HE-400's. Can't wait to start tube rolling.


----------



## Xoen

Currently awaiting my Lyr 2 to arrive.  I'm pairing it with my also new Bifrost that's currently paired with my Valhalla, the original version.  Proud to be a Schiit owner!  
  
 Current:

  
 Previous:

  
 I used to pair my Valhalla with my Aune T1 USB DAC with the Amperex 7308 tube upgrade.  I just bought my new Bifrost to replace it and now purchased and awaiting the Lyr 2 as an upgrade to the Valhalla.  Just had a bad case of upgraditis.


----------



## reddog

xerber said:


> I bought a Schiit Lyr 2 last Thursday as an upgrade to my Little Dot MK3. Design and finish are great for the price and it is a definite improvement with my HE-400's. Can't wait to start tube rolling.



Sweet welcome to club Schiit, may your lyr2 make your cans sing.


----------



## Xerber

Thanks for the welcome, reddog. 
I already bought some Voshkod's and some Electro Harmonix through eBay and just ordered the tube extenders mentioned in this thread to make rolling easier. I guess I'll start with these before considering tubes that go for more than $50 a pop (like the Orange globes). This hobby already can be expensive enough as it is. 
Any recommendations for 'cheap' tubes? I've looked, but can't find write-ups like those available for the Little Dots.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

What the heck is tube rolling?


----------



## scizzro

thedragonguy said:


> What the heck is tube rolling?


 
 Hybrid and tube amps (like the Schiit Lyr or Valhalla) tubes can be "rolled." Just means switching out the stock tubes that are included with the product with other 3rd party tubes. It apparently has an audible affect on the sound. It sounds cool in theory, being able to get different sounds out of the same amp. The tubes can be really expensive, though.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Ah i thought people were somehow making their own tubes lol


----------



## grrorr76

scizzro said:


> Hybrid and tube amps (like the Schiit Lyr or Valhalla) tubes can be "rolled." Just means switching out the stock tubes that are included with the product with other 3rd party tubes. It apparently has an audible affect on the sound. It sounds cool in theory, being able to get different sounds out of the same amp. The tubes can be really expensive, though.


 

 They can also be cheap to. Depends what you go for. Russian tubes can go for a few dollars where as original american 60's made tubes can go for 3-400 a set.


----------



## superjawes

scizzro said:


> Hybrid and tube amps (like the Schiit Lyr or Valhalla) tubes can be "rolled." Just means switching out the stock tubes that are included with the product with other 3rd party tubes. It apparently has an audible affect on the sound. It sounds cool in theory, being able to get different sounds out of the same amp. The tubes can be really expensive, though.


Just to be clear, Valhalla isn't actually a hybrid. It is all-tube, all the time. Granted, as far as I know, you can only change out the smaller tubes, as I think changing the larger 6N1P's would result in not so desirable results...


----------



## Chozart

thedragonguy said:


> Ah i thought people were somehow making their own tubes lol


 

 Since you're new to tube amplification, I would leave the tubes alone for now. Enjoy the amp as it is, and I am pretty sure you'll be happy with it!


----------



## scizzro

superjawes said:


> Just to be clear, Valhalla isn't actually a hybrid. It is all-tube, all the time. Granted, as far as I know, you can only change out the smaller tubes, as I think changing the larger 6N1P's would result in not so desirable results...


 
 Yeah, Valhalla isn't hybrid. 
  
 "Hybrid and tube amps (like the Schiit Lyr or Valhalla) "
  
 I was giving an example of a hybrid and a tube only amp.
  
 I must not have been very clear


----------



## TheDragonGuy

chozart said:


> Since you're new to tube amplification, I would leave the tubes alone for now. Enjoy the amp as it is, and I am pretty sure you'll be happy with it!


 
 Yeah im just sticking to my Magni Uber thats coming. I have no desire to fiddle with tubes.


----------



## scizzro

thedragonguy said:


> Yeah im just sticking to my Magni Uber thats coming. I have no desire to fiddle with tubes.


 
 Give it time. You will succumb to the darkness


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Haha sure if you say so.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Then again if you had told me i'd end up spending $500 after only being on this darn forum a week I wouldn't believe you either lol.


----------



## Chozart

thedragonguy said:


> Yeah im just sticking to my Magni Uber thats coming. I have no desire to fiddle with tubes.


 

 Once you start fiddling with tubes... there seems to be no end. In my HiFi set up, my power am is a Sonic Frontiers SFS-80 (a classic tube amp). By now, I've got four different sets of power tubes for it, and most tube aficionados will say that I am just a beginner in that regard.
  


thedragonguy said:


> Then again if you had told me i'd end up spending $500 after only being on this darn forum a week I wouldn't believe you either lol.


 
 Only $500? Lucky man...


----------



## TheDragonGuy

I think 500 is plenty for my schitt stack and cables and a decent pair of gently used cans.


----------



## scizzro

thedragonguy said:


> I think 500 is plenty for my schitt stack and cables and a decent pair of gently used cans.


 
 It's a great place to start. Many don't have the luxury or ability to start there. In fact, you've probably skipped entry-fi and started out at mid-fi. 
  
 Great combo for the cost.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

I got the best basshead cans I can find on the market so its summit fi for bassheads for me lol.


----------



## Chozart

scizzro said:


> It's a great place to start. Many don't have the luxury or ability to start there. In fact, you've probably skipped entry-fi and started out at mid-fi.
> 
> Great combo for the cost.


 

 I do agree! I was kidding earlier. It's a most excellent start, and a very wise purchase. I think there is barely a better bang for the buck to be found than the Schiit products, as evidenced in most every review here on the forums and elsewhere.
  
 Enjoy my friend!


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Hopefully this won't be me lol


----------



## TooPoorForHiFi

So when is the Vali 2 coming out


----------



## Chozart

thedragonguy said:


> Hopefully this won't be me lol


 
 lol! I hope that with you.
  
 Then again, not sure where the term 'bleeding edge' technology comes from 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


midnightempest said:


> So when is the Vali 2 coming out


 
  
 Schiit is always tight lipped about 'release date'. So, no one really knows. They will announce the release date the moment it is released.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Can't wait for those vibrations!


----------



## scizzro

midnightempest said:


> So when is the Vali 2 coming out


 
 I'll direct you to Jason's comment on this one :
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family#post_11122950


----------



## superjawes

I'm not sure it makes sense to update Vali. The chassis/PCB makes it difficult to replace tubes, and if I remember the Vali chapter correctly ("Schiit Happened" thread), the tubes were a little weird in terms of what usually goes into an audio amp. The only thing you might want is a gain switch and preamp outs (Vali Uber), but if the volumes were never great on Vali to begin with, then it isn't a good idea to sink engineering hours and materials into a redesign.


----------



## scizzro

Does anyone know if Schiit only ships from Cali? I'm really tempted to jump on a Lyr 2 to have something to play with on the 25th, but I'm in Maryland and not willing to pay for expedited shipping lol
  
 There was 1 left in stock on Amazon Prime this morning and now it's gone


----------



## Billheiser

scizzro said:


> Does anyone know if Schiit only ships from Cali? I'm really tempted to jump on a Lyr 2 to have something to play with on the 25th, but I'm in Maryland and not willing to pay for expedited shipping lol
> 
> There was 1 left in stock on Amazon Prime this morning and now it's gone



Yes, they're in California, no other locations. 
Ask Santa real nice. And then go ahead and pay expedited shipping.


----------



## Pirakaphile

scizzro said:


> Does anyone know if Schiit only ships from Cali? I'm really tempted to jump on a Lyr 2 to have something to play with on the 25th, but I'm in Maryland and not willing to pay for expedited shipping lol
> 
> There was 1 left in stock on Amazon Prime this morning and now it's gone



They build them in California. It's the only place in the world they'll ship from. Sorry dude, patience will just have to be a virtue you hold dear. 
Or you can pay me to fly out there on my hypersonic het and I'll be back with your Lyr tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## scizzro

pirakaphile said:


>


 
  


billheiser said:


>


 
 D'oh. Amazon still has Bifrost Ubers in stock... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How weird would a Bifrost Uber + Magni 1 be


----------



## Pirakaphile

scizzro said:


> D'oh. Amazon still has Bifrost Ubers in stock... :blink:
> 
> How weird would a Bifrost Uber + Magni 1 be



It'd be the opposite of my setup in a year. Lyr 2 and Modi. But it'd still be cool


----------



## scizzro

pirakaphile said:


> It'd be the opposite of my setup in a year. Lyr 2 and Modi. But it'd still be cool


 
 Haha you a one-upgrade per year guy too? Damn budgets.. damn them to hell!


----------



## Pirakaphile

scizzro said:


> Haha you a one-upgrade per year guy too? Damn budgets.. damn them to hell!


starting this Krismas, I've a $500 a year budget. The HE-500 gets me through this year, Lyr 2 next year, Bifrost USB year after that, then cables, pads, and tubes. Then, I duno


----------



## KLJTech

There's an upside to buying directly from Schiit as their customer service is outstanding. I've only needed to use CS once due to a _minor_ cosmetic issue with a Gungnir Gen 2 and _they bent over backwards_ to see that my unit was replaced in _record time_. I've been this hobby for a very long time and very few companies (Magnepan and Parasound are the others) have truly stood out with regards to having terrific customer service like Schiit Audio. 
  
 Spend the extra money (or simply wait a few days longer), get your Lyr 2 and then please come back and let us all know what you think of it. I'd love to hear more about how the Lyr 2 works with good IEM's or as a preamp...I have no doubt that its great with hard to drive headphones. 
  
 Good luck with your decision.


----------



## scizzro

pirakaphile said:


> starting this Krismas, I've a $500 a year budget. The HE-500 gets me through this year, Lyr 2 next year, Bifrost USB year after that, then cables, pads, and tubes. Then, I duno


 
 Soooo technically you could order your Lyr on January 1st! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 How are the HE500's btw? I own the HE400's and love them


----------



## Pirakaphile

scizzro said:


> Soooo technically you could order your Lyr on January 1st!
> 
> How are the HE500's btw? I own the HE400's and love them



I see your method there, but I'm gonna wait and save up my money 'fore I pull my wallet out for that 

And I don't have the 500's yet, that's what I'll be getting after recieving gift money fir the holiday, but I'll talk about em after I've got em, don't you worry!


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> I see your method there, but I'm gonna wait and save up my money 'fore I pull my wallet out for that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That HE-500 will require an amp, a smartphone or tablet won't do a proper job of it. A Magni can do it, The HE-500 likes more power than your average headphone.
 Yes I have an HE-500, your ears will love it.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> That HE-500 will require an amp, a smartphone or tablet won't do a proper job of it. A Magni can do it, The HE-500 likes more power than your average headphone.
> Yes I have an HE-500, your ears will love it.


 
 I've been doing my research for months, trust me, I know what I'm getting myself into.  I've already got a Magni/Modi stack, so I've got sufficient power, I'm just investing in the Lyr 2 and Bifrost to get my mid-price end game setup


----------



## scizzro

pirakaphile said:


> I'm just investing in the Lyr 2 and Bifrost to get my mid-price end game setup


 
 I want the Lyr and Bifrost for the same reason as well. But it kind of bums me out to think that I'll never enjoy my week-long upgraditis searches for a new product again


----------



## Pirakaphile

scizzro said:


> I want the Lyr and Bifrost for the same reason as well. But it kind of bums me out to think that I'll never enjoy my week-long upgraditis searches for a new product again


 
 By that time, you should be spending your energy on really digging into your listening sessions dude


----------



## scizzro

.


----------



## hotdogseller

Planning on upgrading to a mjolnir/balanced set up. Do I really need the balanced DAC as well? Would keeping my bifrost (or even getting a modi2uber) work with it?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Found this on ebay, if anyone is interested.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111556326172&alt=web


----------



## ThurstonX

guidostrunk said:


> Found this on ebay, if anyone is interested.
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111556326172&alt=web


 
  
 Not much savings over buying new, what with the $20 shipping.  And does Schiit honor the warranty if you've bought used?  I thought I read somewhere that they don't, but that exceptions have been made.


----------



## BeatsWork

hotdogseller said:


> Planning on upgrading to a mjolnir/balanced set up. Do I really need the balanced DAC as well? Would keeping my bifrost (or even getting a modi2uber) work with it?




It will accept RCA in but of course they recommend balanced for best performance. There's even a switch for balanced or unbalanced input which adjusts ground accordingly.


----------



## Xoen

As if I can't get enough Schiit already, I just recently upgraded to the Schiit Lyr 2 to replace my Valhalla 1.  Valhalla 1 served me well but as with anything in the Hi-Fi world, upgraditis just kicks in.  I will be rolling tubes in my Lyr 2 as a lot of people did in the Schiit Lyr 2 Impressions thread.


----------



## scizzro

xoen said:


> As if I can't get enough Schiit already, I just recently upgraded to the Schiit Lyr 2 to replace my Valhalla 1.  Valhalla 1 served me well but as with anything in the Hi-Fi world, upgraditis just kicks in.  I will be rolling tubes in my Lyr 2 as a lot of people did in the Schiit Lyr 2 Impressions thread.


 
 Awesome! Looks so sexy with the Bifrost. I just ordered my Lyr 2 as well and will be receiving it tomorrow - but I have to wait until Christmas morning to open it up!! 
  
 How are you liking it compared to the Valhalla?


----------



## Xoen

Thanks!  Well, it's kind of early to tell since I did just receive it today and obviously will need some ample burn-in time with the stock tubes.  I'm using my Sennheiser HD700s with the setup and so far I'm very impressed with the sound.  No harshness in the highs that I've seemed to have a _slight _problem with in the Valhalla.  Mids sounded really smooth and neutral and lows do go a little deeper in this amp, just slightly though.  Overall, to my ears it's a little more refined sounding than the Valhalla and slightly more resolving.  The details are certainly there and I kind of want to say it's just a tad bit more transparent than the Valhalla.  I listen to a lot of trance, new age, pop, some rock, country, and acoustic.  The addition of the gain switch in the back is a welcomed addition to this amp.  It's probably a reason why my HD700's sound so much better in this Lyr 2 than the Valhalla 1 since it didn't include a gain switch and it made my HD700's sound way too bright at times.  
  
 I would say the Lyr 2 does things just a little better than the Valhalla 1 but not by much.  Yes, the difference is obvious but then again this is all based on roughly 4-6 hours of burn in time as I'm listening to Ottmar Lieberts acoustic music while writing this review.  Also, not to mention this is all based on the stock 6BZ7 tubes as well.


----------



## Pirakaphile

You two'll have to post your impressions! I'm gonna have to wait a year for the Lyr 2!


----------



## Xoen

pirakaphile said:


> You two'll have to post your impressions! I'm gonna have to wait a year for the Lyr 2!


 
 I just did.  Lol


----------



## Pirakaphile

xoen said:


> I just did.  Lol



You'll have to do a more in-depth one later! How's the noise compared to the Valhalla? Lyr 2 is supposed to be stupid quiet for an amp with tubes. 
Also.. Since your Valhalla is just gonna be sitting around an' all.. *arm aroumd shoulder* You might consider sending it to a new and worthy.. And poor owner. *hint hint, nudge nudge, wink wink*


----------



## Xoen

Oh, this amp is certainly quiet.  Like no hiss, hum, buzz, click click, whatever.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Nothing.  Not even with my highly sensitive 42 ohm ATH-W1000X's.  Schiit really nailed it on this amp.  This is definitely a keeper.  Oh, and about my Valhalla....well I'm gonna think about parting away with that one.  I'll let you know.  lol


----------



## Pirakaphile

Just joking anyway, I'd rather keep out of tubes until I get the Lyr, and then if I go out an get more headphones, like the HD650 or something, I might get tubes, but I haven't done my research on those yet, and I'm not sure about amassing amps and tubes and headphones anyway. I'd rather have a killer setup with just a few excellent pieces.


----------



## StanD

xoen said:


> Thanks!  Well, it's kind of early to tell since I did just receive it today and obviously will need some ample burn-in time with the stock tubes.  I'm using my Sennheiser HD700s with the setup and so far I'm very impressed with the sound.  No harshness in the highs that I've seemed to have a _slight _problem with in the Valhalla.  Mids sounded really smooth and neutral and lows do go a little deeper in this amp, just slightly though.  Overall, to my ears it's a little more refined sounding than the Valhalla and slightly more resolving.  The details are certainly there and I kind of want to say it's just a tad bit more transparent than the Valhalla.  I listen to a lot of trance, new age, pop, some rock, country, and acoustic.  *The addition of the gain switch in the back is a welcomed addition to this amp.  It's probably a reason why my HD700's sound so much better in this Lyr 2 than the Valhalla 1 since it didn't include a gain switch and it made my HD700's sound way too bright at times*.


 
 I don't see how the absence of a gain switch makes anything sound too bright.


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys,
  
 may i ask between lyr 2 and valhalla 2 , which amp is a better choice for hd800 ?
  
 hybrid tube or all tube ?
  
 thanks.


----------



## MattTCG

For the hd800, the Valhalla 2 is appreciably better IMO. Not even close.


----------



## traehekat

Can anyone compare the Valhalla 1 and 2 with the HD800? Significant improvement?


----------



## MattTCG

The 2 is a nice upgrade over the original. The 2 gives you better staging, resolution and layering of sound. Not to mention the gain switch and preamp outs.


----------



## scizzro

> For the hd800, the Valhalla 2 is appreciably better IMO. Not even close.


 
 Will the Lyr 2 get the job done for other Senns? I just bought the HD600 and didn't go with Valhalla because I regularly use Orthos, and wanted 1 amp to do it all


----------



## StanD

scizzro said:


> Will the Lyr 2 get the job done for other Senns? I just bought the HD600 and didn't go with Valhalla because I regularly use Orthos, and wanted 1 amp to do it all


 
 Lyr2 can do it all. I use an Asgard 2 with my HD600 as well as HE-500 and it sounds great, plenty loud and clean as a whistle with either can.


----------



## Xoen

stand said:


> I don't see how the absence of a gain switch makes anything sound too bright.


 
 Oh, to my ears it sounded a little bright on the Valhalla 1.  The Lyr 2 is really my first amp that contained a gain switch so I easily assume the a lack of one made my 700's loud and bright.


----------



## MattTCG

scizzro said:


> Will the Lyr 2 get the job done for other Senns? I just bought the HD600 and didn't go with Valhalla because I regularly use Orthos, and wanted 1 amp to do it all



Lyr2 is a great amp and a good compromise for dynamics and orthos.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Lyr2 is a great amp and a good compromise for dynamics and orthos.



Yes a the lyr 2 is a good compromise for running dynamics and of this, I use my lyr 2 to drive my Beyerdynamic Dt 880's as well as my Alpha Prime's.


----------



## Rem0o

xoen said:


> Oh, to my ears it sounded a little bright on the Valhalla 1.  The Lyr 2 is really my first amp that contained a gain switch so I easily assume the a lack of one made my 700's loud and bright.


 
 Gain switch has nothing to do with the "brightness". Loud yes, but not the sound signature. From Valhalla to Lyr you get lower output impedance, different tubes, solid state outputs (...) all those things combined are more likely the cause of your perceived reduction of brightness with your HD700.


----------



## tmac7balla

Finally got around to reading your thoughts on it. Thanks for the update.


xoen said:


> Thanks!  Well, it's kind of early to tell since I did just receive it today and obviously will need some ample burn-in time with the stock tubes.  I'm using my Sennheiser HD700s with the setup and so far I'm very impressed with the sound.  No harshness in the highs that I've seemed to have a _slight_ problem with in the Valhalla.  Mids sounded really smooth and neutral and lows do go a little deeper in this amp, just slightly though.  Overall, to my ears it's a little more refined sounding than the Valhalla and slightly more resolving.  The details are certainly there and I kind of want to say it's just a tad bit more transparent than the Valhalla.  I listen to a lot of trance, new age, pop, some rock, country, and acoustic.  The addition of the gain switch in the back is a welcomed addition to this amp.  It's probably a reason why my HD700's sound so much better in this Lyr 2 than the Valhalla 1 since it didn't include a gain switch and it made my HD700's sound way too bright at times.
> 
> I would say the Lyr 2 does things just a little better than the Valhalla 1 but not by much.  Yes, the difference is obvious but then again this is all based on roughly 4-6 hours of burn in time as I'm listening to Ottmar Lieberts acoustic music while writing this review.  Also, not to mention this is all based on the stock 6BZ7 tubes as well.


----------



## rovopio

hi guys, i have just pulled the trigger on the magni yesterday... im new to the dac and amp world... i've never used it before and nobody around me is using it either, so i have no reference and barely ever see dac / amp in practice in real life.
  
 my budget was limited so it's fairly easy decision what i was gonna get. out of curiousity though, i saw all the Schiit Amps line, to read description of what's it all about.
  
 my question is, i don't understand the difference between valhalla 2 and lyr 2...
 - on valhalla 2, what is a "triode OTL amp?"
 - and what's the difference between that and lyr 2's "tube hybrid amp?"
 - what's hybrid about lyr 2?
  
 im not in the market for either valhalla 2 or lyr 2 so i'm hesitant to ask schiit about the diff. between the two and decide to ask the community...
  
 to illustrate that i was actually reading and googling before asking the question, i can demonstrate to you guys that i know the product difference between schiit amps but not those 2...
  
 magni => budget discrete solid state amp
 magni uber => budget discrete amp with preamp
 vali => budget tube
 asgard 2 => solid state amp
  
 valhalla 2 => triode tube amp??
 lyr 2 => hybrid tube amp??
  
 mjolnir => balanced amp
 ragnarok => boom shakalaka!!!
  
  
 so you see how somebody that's new to the scene are confused what's the diff. between lyr and valhalla...
  
 any answers would help.. thanks in advance


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> my question is, i don't understand the difference between valhalla 2 and lyr 2...
> - on valhalla 2, what is a "triode OTL amp?"
> - and what's the difference between that and lyr 2's "tube hybrid amp?"
> - what's hybrid about lyr 2?


 
  
 Valhalla is 100% tube amp, that means that both gain (pre-amp) and output (power) stages are tubes, not solid state. OTL (transformer-less) means that there's no transformer in the output stage to lower the output impedance (tubes are naturally high impedance devices), meaning that OTL amps are best suited to high impedance cans like Sennheiser HD600/650/800 (300 Ohm), which don't require much current (but rather a lot of voltage) to operate. Tubes are also natural "voltage" devices, so there it is.
  
 Lyr on another hand is a hybrid design with a combination of a tube gain stage (where you gain "voltage", and tubes shine at that) and solid state output (power) stage (giving lots of current), meaning that Lyr naturally has a really nice gain stage with very low output impedance and high current capability, so it's suited to much wider range of cans, including some current-hungry low impedance planars. It's going to be very good with Sennheisers as well - it's truly versatile amp.
  
 If you want to stay in a budget and you don't care about the tubes, but still want a versatile amp, I would suggest looking at Asgard 2.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Valhalla is 100% tube amp, that means that both gain (pre-amp) and output (power) stages are tubes, not solid state. OTL (transformer-less) means that there's no transformer in the output stage to lower the output impedance (tubes are naturally high impedance devices), meaning that OTL amps are best suited to high impedance cans like Sennheiser HD600/650/800 (300 Ohm), which don't require much current (but rather a lot of voltage) to operate. Tubes are also natural "voltage" devices, so there it is.
> 
> Lyr on another hand is a hybrid design with a combination of a tube gain stage (where you gain "voltage", and tubes shine at that) and solid state output (power) stage (giving lots of current), meaning that Lyr naturally has a really nice gain stage with very low output impedance and high current capability, so it's suited to much wider range of the cans, including some current-hungry low impedance planars. It's going to be very good with Sennheisers as well - it's truly versatile amp.
> 
> If you want to stay in a budget and you don't care about the tubes, but still want a versatile amp, I would suggest looking at Asgard 2.


 
 +1 Perfect answer. I was too lazy to type all that in.


----------



## madwolfa

stand said:


> +1 Perfect answer. I was too lazy to type all that in.


 
  
 I just had a glass of scotch and got in the right mood.


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Valhalla is 100% tube amp, that means that both gain (pre-amp) and output (power) stages are tubes, not solid state. OTL (transformer-less) means that there's no transformer in the output stage to lower the output impedance (tubes are naturally high impedance devices), meaning that OTL amps are best suited to high impedance cans like Sennheiser HD600/650/800 (300 Ohm), which don't require much current (but rather a lot of voltage) to operate. Tubes are also natural "voltage" devices, so there it is.
> 
> Lyr on another hand is a hybrid design with a combination of a tube gain stage (where you gain "voltage", and tubes shine at that) and solid state output (power) stage (giving lots of current), meaning that Lyr naturally has a really nice gain stage with very low output impedance and high current capability, so it's suited to much wider range of the cans, including some current-hungry low impedance planars. It's going to be very good with Sennheisers as well - it's truly versatile amp.
> 
> If you want to stay in a budget and you don't care about the tubes, but still want a versatile amp, I would suggest looking at Asgard 2.


 
  
 i pulled the trigger on the uber stacks because of my shoestring budget 
  
 i see. i understand the basics now. thank you for the layman terms explanation!
  
 let me summarize my understanding......
 - tubes gives voltage. solid state gives current.
 - transformer in output stage lower output impedance
 - valhalla is the 100% tube amp offering. where the OTL tube amp is normally designed for high impedance headphones.
 - While Lyr is their hybrid tube offering. hybrid means that lyr have solid state output, so it has lower impedance while still having high voltage output because the pre-amp stage is tubes.
  
 my follow-up questions are
 1) So Lyr can accomodate more headphone than Valhalla given it's output impedance? Say my 32 ohm grado?
 valhalla is the schiit tube amp while lyr is schiit's answer to planar amp that's also more versatile?
  
 2) so solid state means transformer?
  
 3) i dont have any experience with planar. and the only thing i understand from headphone specs are impedance.
 which part of headphone spec. do i have to look at that reveals the current requirement of a headphone??
 the only 2 things i understand from headphone spec are the Frequency Range and impedance...
  
 4) what's the measurement for voltage and current?
 i mean, say on the magni 2 uber that i bought, which part of the specs reveals the voltage and current output?
 my guess is the current output is the "*Maximum Power, 300 ohms: *320mW RMS per channel "?
 so does that read, with 300 ohm headphone impedance i will get 320 mW of current?
 which one is the voltage then?
  
 ps: not that i dont google about how to read headphone specs and such, but without understanding the right keyword to type into google, all i get is more articles like this https://www.massdrop.com/article/understanding-headphone-reviews
  
 basically either useless or too advance for me (fairly certain based on my inadequate white belt google-fu)


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> i pulled the trigger on the uber stacks because of my shoestring budget
> 
> i see. i understand the basics now. thank you for the layman terms explanation!
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) Correct.
  
 2) No, it's just solid state output stage does not require a transformer to get the low impedance and lots of current, as given an adequate power supply, it's fairly easy to get tons of current from a solid state device. Not so trivial from a tube. However, it's much easier to gain voltage from tube, that's why they're much better suited for "low power" applications like gain stages. Hybrid designs like Lyr are like best of both worlds.
  
 3) You just have to understand that if the headphone has low impedance, that would automatically mean that it would require more current to get certain amount of power from an amplifier. Then, how much power you need to get a certain level of loudness (volume level)? That's where the headphone's sensitivity comes into play. Worst case scenario is low impedance planars with low sensitivity (think of HE-6). They would need TONS of current to achieve acceptable volume level, as having a low impedance and low sensitivity means that the voltage requirement is going to be pretty low, but to get a lot of power to drive them to good volume level without distortion, you would need to supply much higher current.
  
 4) That's the Ohm's law right here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law, I=V/R, where I is current, V is voltage and R is resistance (impedance). P (power) = I (current) * V (voltage). mW (miliwatt) is amount of power, but to achieve it, you would either need to increase voltage or current (depending on the load, i.e. headphone spec). Higher impedance cans require more voltage to achieve the same level of power as planars, which would in turn require more current (as they're lower impedance). The amount of power you need depends on headphone's sensitivity.


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> i pulled the trigger on the uber stacks because of my shoestring budget
> 
> i see. i understand the basics now. thank you for the layman terms explanation!
> 
> ...


 
 mW (milli-Watt) is power, not current. High Impedance headphones require a greater voltage swing, so the amp must be able to produce this. Low Impedance headphones require more current, so the amp must be able to produce this.
 A good SS or Hybrid amp can do both.
 An OTL Tube Amp is best for High Impedance Headphones.
 A Pure Tube Amp that has an output transformer can drive low impedance headphones as the transformer trades voltage for current.
 Impedance can be thought of as a resistance at a frequency or VAC. Resistance is at VDC.
 Power = Voltage2/Resistance
 Power = Current2*Resistance
 Couple this with Ohms law and you can work out the numbers.
 Not sure if you really want to do all of this.


----------



## rovopio

^ ^
  
 thanks guys, i really appreciate the explanations! other than the formulas, i think i can grasp the basic understanding of SS and tube amps and which amps are suitable for what kinds of headphones and why.
  
 i have one more question. this time it's pretty simple. what is preamp?
  
 i did not know what pre-amp was. so i googled. i got this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_speakers
 i still don't understand what does it do. since i never own a speaker yet.
  
 1) so is the preamp capability of schiit amps basically PC => DAC => pre-amp magni 2 uber => speaker.. is that what preamp means?
 the device between the Source and the speaker?
  
 2) what is the purpose of preamp to speaker? don't speaker already have sound on its own when connected directly to say, PC?
  
 like say, this speaker http://www.tech-dynamic.com/our-brands/hivi/hivi-swans-d1010-iv-2-0-bookshelf-speakers.html
  
 so i put magni 2 uber before those? why?


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> i have one more question. this time it's pretty simple. what is preamp?
> 
> i did not know what pre-amp was. so i googled. i got this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_speakers
> i still don't understand what does it do. since i never own a speaker yet.
> ...


 
  
 Basically, preamp is a box with a bunch of inputs, a gain stage and a volume control (potentiometer) in it. All Schiit amps are integrated amps, meaning they have both pre-amp (inputs, gain + volume control) and power stages in one box. Normally speakers do not have any "sound" in them, they're only passive transducers. Sometimes speakers have power stage built into them (they're called "active monitors"), but there's no way to control volume level. That's where Schiit pre-amp part comes into play, you basically bypass Schiit's own output stage and only use its pre-amp section.
  
 The speaker you have in the link above has an integrated amplifier with a volume control, so I'm not sure what application is for Schiit (or any other) amplifier there.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Basically, preamp is a box with a bunch of inputs, a gain stage and a volume control (potentiometer) in it. All Schiit amps are integrated amps, meaning they have both pre-amp (inputs, gain + volume control) and power stages in one box. Normally speakers do not have any "sound" in them, they're only passive transducers. Sometimes speakers have power stage built into them (they're called "active monitors"), but there's no way to control volume level. That's where Schiit pre-amp part comes into play, you basically bypass Schiit's own output stage and only use its pre-amp section.


 
 The speakers rovopio linked to appear to be powered and already have a volume and tone controls. If he's not interested in headphones he might not need any Schiit.


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Basically, preamp is a box with a bunch of inputs, a gain stage and a volume control (potentiometer) in it. All Schiit amps are integrated amps, meaning they have both pre-amp (inputs, gain + volume control) and power stages in one box. Normally speakers do not have any "sound" in them, they're only passive transducers. Sometimes speakers have power stage built into them (they're called "active monitors"), but there's no way to control volume level. That's where Schiit pre-amp part comes into play, you basically bypass Schiit's own output stage and only use its pre-amp section.


 
  
  
 schiit description box uses the word powered monitor. schiit faqs uses the word power amp.
 is active monitors = powered monitors = power amp?
  
 so for example, if i have a 2.0 speakers like this that have power on off and volume control on it. 
  
  
 - does using schiit preamp function means that it's redundant, or does it makes the speaker sound better? generally speaking...
 - or is it only useful when the speakers are passive transducers?
  
  
 -----
 update
  


stand said:


> The speakers rovopio linked to appear to be powered and already have a volume and tone controls. If he's not interested in headphones he might not need any Schiit.


 
  
 i saw your post as i posted mine. no no..., as i said, i dont understand preamps because i dont have speakers yet. nobody around me uses speakers either. i already ordered the uber .
  
 i dont have interest on purchasing speakers either, it was just an example because i'd like to know what preamp does.
  
 as for headphones, i just purchased dt880 250 ohm 
  
  
 by the way merry christmas you two!!


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> so for example, if i have a 2.0 speakers like this that have power on off and volume control on it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Every amplifier you know is likely to have a preamplifier. That's essential part of any amplifier. So you can't really say it makes anything sound better or worse. Pre-amplifier basically "makes" the sound or "amplifies" the weak signal from a low voltage source - that is called "gain". The power amp is just giving a needed current to drive a speaker.
  
 If your 2.0 speakers have on/off button and a volume control, that means they have both preamplifier and power amplifier in them. You only need to supply a line level signal to them (as you would feed any other pre-amplifier like Schiit).
  
 You only need to use Schiit as a preamp if your speakers are powered, but don't have a preamp section in them (no gain and volume control).


----------



## ejwiles

rovopio said:


> as for headphones, i just purchased dt880 250 ohm


 
  
 Excellent combo.  The original Modi/Magni + DT880 250 was my first rig.  I think you'll be a happy camper!


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> schiit description box uses the word powered monitor. schiit faqs uses the word power amp.
> is active monitors = powered monitors = power amp?
> 
> so for example, if i have a 2.0 speakers like this that have power on off and volume control on it.
> ...


 
 So if you're into the DT880's the Schiit uber stack will do what you want. Merry Christmas and I hope Santa get's that stack of Shiit moving fast because waiting sucks.


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Every amplifier you know is likely to have a preamplifier. That's essential part of any amplifier. So you can't really say it makes anything sound better or worse. Pre-amplifier basically "makes" the sound or "amplifies" the weak signal from a low voltage source - that is called "gain". The power amp is just giving a needed current to drive a speaker.
> 
> If your 2.0 speakers have on/off button and a volume control, that means they have both preamplifier and power amplifier in them. You only need to supply a line level signal to them (as you would feed any other pre-amplifier like Schiit).
> 
> You only need to use Schiit as a preamp if your speakers are powered, but don't have a preamp section in them (no gain and volume control).


 
  
 thanks madwolfa!
  
 one last question. i swear it's the last one hehe 
 so for 2.0 speakers that have power and volume control, is it redundant if i use schiit to supply line level signal to them instead of from the pc?
 will it be the same?
  
 By the way, supplying line level signal to the speaker... that's the speaker cable job that goes into the green computer jack on the back of the motherboard right?
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


stand said:


> So if you're into the DT880's the Schiit uber stack will do what you want. Merry Christmas and I hope Santa get's that stack of Shiit moving fast because waiting sucks.


 
  
 oh man, i live in the less develop part of asia. so... it'll take a long... time to reach where im at, even with fedex. it's pretty funny actually because schiit told me that a large percentage of the order that originated from the region was not on the up and up. i understand that, and it was funny to me.
  
 well, def. not funny for the schiit guys but yeah. so they said they would prefer verified PP with the same billing and shipping address for the order. well i was intending to pay with pp from the start so there's that 
  
 just an intermezzo...
  


ejwiles said:


> Excellent combo.  The original Modi/Magni + DT880 250 was my first rig.  I think you'll be a happy camper!


 
  
 thanks. i think i will!
  
 i've read a lot before deciding to pull the trigger on it. i was leaning towards vali for a bit, but since my pc is up at night doing cloud backup, and seeing that im not diligent with turning stuff on and off. i really don't think tub amp are for me at the moment. though i know that vali have relay mute.
  
 someday probably. i think little dot mk III looks neat. valhalla is cool too. esp. the name...


----------



## RickB

madwolfa said:


> Every amplifier you know is likely to have a preamplifier. That's essential part of any amplifier. So you can't really say it makes anything sound better or worse. Pre-amplifier basically "makes" the sound or "amplifies" the weak signal from a low voltage source - that is called "gain". The power amp is just giving a needed current to drive a speaker.
> 
> If your 2.0 speakers have on/off button and a volume control, that means they have both preamplifier and power amplifier in them. You only need to supply a line level signal to them (as you would feed any other pre-amplifier like Schiit).
> 
> You only need to use Schiit as a preamp if your speakers are powered, but don't have a preamp section in them (no gain and volume control).


 
 Even if powered speakers have a volume control, a pre-amp like in the Asgard 2 can serve a useful function if the volume control is on the back of the speaker and meant to be adjusted infrequently, like the Audioengine 2 (which I have).


----------



## madwolfa

> Originally Posted by *rovopio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> one last question. i swear it's the last one hehe
> so for 2.0 speakers that have power and volume control, is it redundant if i use schiit to supply line level signal to them instead of from the pc?
> ...


 
  
 Generally it is redundant, but as above poster said, sometimes it can be done for the sake of convenience (if Schiit's volume control is closer to your reach)...
  
 Green computer jack is actually amplified by an opamp on your PC soundcard. Only semi- and professional audio interfaces have line level outputs on them.
 I wouldn't use that output for anything but really schitty $20 speakers. The only way to get a line level output from a PC is through an external DAC like Modi.
  
 EDIT: you don't supply line level signal to "active" speakers with a preamp, that's what DACs are for.


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Generally it is redundant, but as above poster said, sometimes it can be done for the sake of convenience (if Schiit's volume control is closer to your reach)...
> 
> Green computer jack is actually amplified by an opamp on your PC soundcard. Only semi- and professional audio interfaces have line level outputs on them.
> I wouldn't use that output for anything but really schitty $20 speakers. The only way to get a line level output from a PC is through an external DAC like Modi.
> ...


 
  
  
 gotcha!
  
 alright guys. thank you very2 much for the explanations from all of you! have a nice night


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> 3) You just have to understand that if the headphone has low impedance, that would automatically mean that it would require more current to get certain amount of power from an amplifier. Then, how much power you need to get a certain level of loudness (volume level)? That's where the headphone's sensitivity comes into play. Worst case scenario is low impedance planars with low sensitivity (think of HE-6). They would need TONS of current to achieve acceptable volume level, as having a low impedance and low sensitivity means that the voltage requirement is going to be pretty low, but to get a lot of power to drive them to good volume level without distortion, you would need to supply much higher current.


 
  
 i want to ask one more thing to clarify my understanding,
  
 lower impedance => higher current (depending on efficiency)
 --> lower impedance + low sensitivity ==> he-6 (monster current-hungry)
  
 higher impedance => higher voltage (depending on efficiency)
 --> higher impedance + high sensitivity / efficiency (102db) ==> T1 / hd800 (voltage-hungry)
  
 then my question is... are there a commonly heard headphone out there that has 300-600 ohm impedance but also has low ~80db efficiency?
 if there are, does that mean those headphones would need both a lot of current and a lot of voltage?
  
 ---
 actually, one more thing, in a given company product line, general and simplistically speaking, between two products, 100% SS amp A, and 100% tube amp B,
 does SS amp A will normally be the one with higher current and 100% tube amp B will be the one with more voltage?
  
 thank you...
  
  
 --not important but, status of the uber

10:43 am Departed FedEx location ANCHORAGE, AK
  
  
 for the beyer the status is
 -- Dispatch from outward office of exchange
  
 both will reach me in 2 or 3 weeks i think...


----------



## BeatsWork

Anyone know the exact fuse specifications for Gungnir & Mjolnir?  I have opportunity to buy some "audiophile" fuses - Red Dot specifically for dirt cheap.  Figure I have nothing to lose from trying...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> i want to ask one more thing to clarify my understanding,
> 
> lower impedance => higher current (depending on efficiency)
> --> lower impedance + low sensitivity ==> he-6 (monster current-hungry)
> ...


 
 As Voltage increases across a constant load (300 Ohms, etc) then the current will also increase as they are directly proportional.Ohms law below, easy math.
 I = E/R
 E = IR
  
 Your assumption of SS vs, Tubes for Voltage and Current are old school. SS Amps are more versatile as the can provide both voltage swing as well as current. There are different MOSFET and transistor technologies that can do both without output transformers. Tube amps need transformers to deliver low impedance and high current as a transformer is used to trade voltage for current. The problem with transformers are they:

Saturate
Can be nonlinear
Delievers at specific impedances, one might need multiple taps for multiple impedances.
Good ones are expensive and heavy.
  
 A good SS can deliver to a wide range of continuous impedances, no fooling around.
  
 Of course you will find both good and bad products of either technology. My personal preference is for a good SS amp, a wire with gain would be best,


----------



## MWSVette

Good afternoon all,
  
 Looking for a used Schiit Bifrost.  I would prefer with at least USB ver 1 , but not required.  No need for Uber, though I would consider that also. If anyone has one they wish to sell please PM me.
  
 Thanks
 MWSVette


----------



## rmullins08

Can get a b-stock from amazon  http://www.amazon.com/Bifrost-Digital-Analog-Convertor-B-stock/dp/B00OIZQO8K/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1419615857&sr=8-6&keywords=schiit+b-stock


----------



## MWSVette

rmullins08 said:


> Can get a b-stock from amazon  http://www.amazon.com/Bifrost-Digital-Analog-Convertor-B-stock/dp/B00OIZQO8K/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1419615857&sr=8-6&keywords=schiit+b-stock


 

 Thanks, I saw that one too.  There was a used one for $249.00 with version 1 USB last week.  I really wanted it, but had to wait until after Christmas before spending anymore money on toys.  However now I am ready....


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> As Voltage increases across a constant load (300 Ohms, etc) then the current will also increase as they are directly proportional.Ohms law below, easy math.
> I = E/R
> E = IR


 
  
 can it be said, if i try to over-generalize it... dynamic headphones with high impedance will normally have fairly high efficiency number (dB/mW) as well...?
 and unlike planars that could have low impedance and low sensitivity, dynamic headphones with high impedance will have decent enough sensitivity number...?
  
 does that make sense? i know the sentence are all messed up >_<
  
  
 Oh by the way! i was talking in the other schiit thread about 24/96 output. i saw you were there too. my songs are rips from CDs. i don't have high-resolution downloads either because around 2012 i think i cant buy from hdtracks where im at... I dont own SACD or DSD either.
  
 after that conversation on the other thread, i remember when i was following EAC tutorial about ripping, i remember a number 16/44.1. Is that the output of a CD?
  
 1) so if all my songs are on CD, does that mean the sample rate is limited to 44100hz?
 (my foobar songs metadata all said 44100)
  
 2) how do i know if my CD rip is 16 or 24 bit because my foobar metadata doesn't say anything about that...
  
 3) what will 24/96 output DAC capability do to my CD rips 44100 songs?
 nothing or will it convert all and every sounds to 96000hz?
  
 4) lastly, do you use foobar or ASIO?
 does it matter to the sound?
  
 after i read the manuals of fiio e10k, it has instruction like this "after ASIO drivers are installed, do not disconnect the device while a player is playing music. BSOD may occur."
 i've googled a bit about ASIO on foobar documentations. it's said something about bit-perfect stream... so windows doesn't do bit-perfect stream or something?
  
 cheers...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> can it be said, if i try to over-generalize it... dynamic headphones with high impedance will normally have fairly high efficiency number (dB/mW) as well...?
> and unlike planars that could have low impedance and low sensitivity, dynamic headphones with high impedance will have decent enough sensitivity number...?
> 
> does that make sense? i know the sentence are all messed up >_<
> ...


 
 High impedance headphones vary in sensitivity. My HD600's are 300 Ohms and are would not be considered to be sensitive. I wouldn't generalize on sensitivity, it varies model by model.
  
 1) Yep. You can rip and convert to a higher sample rate, but there will be nothing gained but you will lose strorage space.
 2) CD's are 44.1 kHz, 2 channels at 16 bits per channel.I doubt that your rips are any better,
 3) Nothing. You can't create what is not there. When using a DAC it should be able to handle the bit rate of the source, conversion is IMO a bad idea.
 4) foobar is a program, player software. Yes I use foobar on my PC as well as different players on my Android smartphone. ASIO is an I/O interace that is not restricted to just foobar. It's usually good for low latency I/O.
  
 Plenty of people use Windows and don't complain about bit perfect, as it might be more up to the software and drivers that you use. Usually we are more concerned about this with DACs.
 You might be more concerned with the bit rate of your MP3 rips. 128kbits used to be common when storage space was an issue. I usually rip at 320kbits, frankly I wouldn't lose sleep if I had MP3's at 256kbits or slightly lower. Some folks swear by super hirez non compressed files, IMO, don't worry about it and enjoy your music, just be wary of low bitrate MP3's. Of course the quality of your encoding software is important.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> High impedance headphones vary in sensitivity. My HD600's are 300 Ohms and are would not be considered to be sensitive. I wouldn't generalize on sensitivity, it varies model by model.
> Plenty of people use Windows and don't complain about bit perfect, as it might be more up to the software and drivers that you use. Usually we are more concerned about this with DACs.
> You might be more concerned with the bit rate of your MP3 rips.


 
  
 yeah i use foobar. but i never use any DSP nor ASIO because foobar documentation on ASIO is not clear.
  
 initially i didn't know nor care about sample rate and output... i've been waiting for the stack since early this week, so... while waiting for the uber i read about 24/96 and 24/192 output, and googling one thing lead to another, etc etc. you were there.
  
 i used EAC for some time.
 i normally got 95~100% track quality from the logs, not worry with the rip quality.
  





  
 most of my musics are 320kbps initially. but after getting altone 200, i re-rip it to get FLACs.
  
 1) by the way on windows i found Sound, playback devices, properties, advanced, default format column (sample rate and bit depth)
  




  
 For the Fiio the options are...
  
 16bit 44100 (default)
 16bit 48000
 16bit 96000
  
 24bit 44100
 24bit 48000
 24bit 96000
  
 do i need to change it for my fiio e10k? and do you change these settings yourself on your PC?
 which one should i get?
  
 2) If say, i need to change it, when i unplug fiio e10k and uses the motherboard audio jack directly, do i need to change it back every time to 16bit 44100 again?
 the changes, is it universal settings or only applied to one device (in this case, the fiio e10k)
  
 3) Talking about CD has 16 bit / 44100 hz output... there's 44.1 and 48 there right? what's the 48 for?
 DVD and Blu-ray and youtube videos or smthn?
  
  
 cheers...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> yeah i use foobar. but i never use any DSP nor ASIO because foobar documentation on ASIO is not clear.
> 
> initially i didn't know nor care about sample rate and output... i've been waiting for the stack since early this week, so... while waiting for the uber i read about 24/96 and 24/192 output, and googling one thing lead to another, etc etc. you were there.
> 
> ...


 
 I try to match the source as IMO no good will come from conversion. I thouguth you were into bit perfect. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you keep on worrying, when your Schiit arrives, youll have one massive headache. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Try to enjoy the toys when they arrive.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I try to match the source as IMO no good will come from conversion. I thouguth you were into bit perfect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 nah. im just curious about new terms and wanting to learn. i dont really care about bit perfect. (nor do i knew what that meant 3 days ago) hahahaha.


----------



## spourop

Does anyone know if http://www.schiit-europe.com is official/legit?


----------



## Zojokkeli

spourop said:


> Does anyone know if http://www.schiit-europe.com is official/legit?


 
  
 It is, I have ordered two times from there. They have rather slow shipping times though (about two weeks on both accounts.)


----------



## spourop

Ty, will be ordering schiit magni and later on the modi dac


----------



## CH23

spourop said:


> Does anyone know if http://www.schiit-europe.com is official/legit?




Schiit europe is from a dutch store called Sonority-audio, and they are official dealers. They have an actual "mortar-and-brick" store too. Nice people.


----------



## rovopio

quick question... will the magni 2 uber has a loud thump when turning on and off the amp?


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> quick question... will the magni 2 uber has a loud thump when turning on and off the amp?


yup, after 10 seconds the muting relay clicks on and off, perfectly normal. I always plug my headphones in after the muting relay turns off, and before I shut the amp off, just out of habit.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Alright, so balanced. What does it mean? What does it do for the music and your headphones? I keep hearing people say stuff about how balanced is a whole new entrance into hi-fidelity music listening. For my long term goal, I would love to get the Mjolnir and Gungnir, but I'd like to learn everything about balanced audio before I get into it, cause I could just stick with the Bifrost/Lyr2 combo as an end-game performance level setup if the benefits won't be worth the extra money.


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> yup, after 10 seconds the muting relay clicks on and off, perfectly normal. I always plug my headphones in after the muting relay turns off, and before I shut the amp off, just out of habit.


 
  
 my english aren't the best sorry. apologize to reiterate what you say...so you plug the headphones in 10 seconds after your magni is on?
 also you plug the headphones off... before you turn off the magni?
  
 is that what you meant? hehehe. im sorry for the dumb question.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> my english aren't the best sorry. apologize to reiterate what you say...so you plug the headphones in 10 seconds after your magni is on?
> also you plug the headphones off... before you turn off the magni?
> 
> is that what you meant? hehehe. im sorry for the dumb question.



Yup, you'll hear a click after you flip the switch on. And it's all good, your english is adorable! :3


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> Yup, you'll hear a click after you flip the switch on. And it's all good, your english is adorable! :3


 
  
 thanks!
  
 will i hear clicks when turning the magni off / pc off?
  
 i don't really worry about the on so much as worry about the off because... you know, sometimes you just restart your pc without thinking.
  
 is it a good practice to plug off the headphone before turning off the PC? or is it perfectly safe to just leave the headphone plugged while turning magni / PC off?
  
 so, on your previous post, i take it you plugged the headphone off before turning your pc off?


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> thanks!
> 
> will i hear clicks when turning the magni off / pc off?
> 
> ...



I always unplug the DAC from the computer, unplug my headphones, shut my amp off, abd then close my laptop. 
For startup, I turn the computer on, plug the DAC in, turn the amp on, and then plug headphones in. 

On Schiit's site, they say you can leave your headphones plugged in all the time. I just don't have anywhere to put em while they're plugged in. They're built to be safe for your headphones, so you can leave em plugged in and turn the amp on and off and nothing bad will ever happen.


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> I always unplug the DAC from the computer, unplug my headphones, shut my amp off, abd then close my laptop.
> For startup, I turn the computer on, plug the DAC in, turn the amp on, and then plug headphones in.
> 
> On Schiit's site, they say you can leave your headphones plugged in all the time. I just don't have anywhere to put em while they're plugged in. They're built to be safe for your headphones, so you can leave em plugged in and turn the amp on and off and nothing bad will ever happen.


 
  
 the thump is pretty loud on magni 2 uber. other than that it's all good!
  
 is it loud on your magni as well?
  
 i have a 32 ohm grado and a 16 ohm mdr-ma900. it's louder on the 16 ohm i think. i was pretty surprised!!


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> the thump is pretty loud on magni 2 uber. other than that it's all good!
> 
> is it loud on your magni as well?
> 
> i have a 32 ohm grado and a 16 ohm mdr-ma900. it's louder on the 16 ohm i think. i was pretty surprised!!



I never hear it since I always unplug before turning off, but it's discharging power, so I wouldn't be surprised that it's louder on the lower impendance phones. I've got a grado as well, and sometimes I find it difficult to get a good volume in the Magni, since moving the volume knob increases volume way too much. Of course, they fixed that with the gain switch on the Magni2/uber, but I don't have em and probably won't ever get em.


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> I never hear it since I always unplug before turning off, but it's discharging power, so I wouldn't be surprised that it's louder on the lower impendance phones. I've got a grado as well, and sometimes I find it difficult to get a good volume in the Magni, since moving the volume knob increases volume way too much. Of course, they fixed that with the gain switch on the Magni2/uber, but I don't have em and probably won't ever get em.


 
  
 now that im using it. for grado or my ma-900, i think it's better to get magni 2 for budget-fi people if they never plan on buying a high impedance headphone ever. it's really hard to get a listenable volume for me on magni 2 uber (1.5W vs asgard2 1.0W). wow.
  
 im a low volume listener from the get-go. my fiio e10k potentiometer is at 0.8 (<1.0) out of 8.
  
 i listen on a low volume and long-hours.
 with 2 uber, a little to the right is too loud for me. turn some more to the left is off.
 in between the two, the volume is too little and a little off-center.
  
 does a given amp, when the volume pot is turn very little, the sound will be off-center?
 or is it just my feeling?
  
 ps: i ended up using science to achieve a listenable not too loud volume on the magni in the end... and now it's all good..


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> now that im using it. for grado or my ma-900, i think it's better to get magni 2 for budget-fi people if they never plan on buying a high impedance headphone ever. it's really hard to get a listenable volume for me on magni 2 uber (1.5W vs asgard2 1.0W). wow.
> 
> im a low volume listener from the get-go. my fiio e10k potentiometer is at 0.8 (<1.0) out of 8.
> 
> ...



Having the gain switch on LOW will allow for the Magni to put out a little less power, so you can get the knob turned further for the same volume, and have more control over the volume. I'm hoping that my power hungry HiFiMAN's will allow me to turn the knob more so I can fine tune the volume I want. 
I also have the Beyerdynamic DT990 PROs, and between them and the Grados, I'd say I can turn the knob about three times further on the Beyers until my ears can't take it. The grados have about 1/10th of the full range of the colume knob, and it's really annoying. Hopefully when I get the Lyr2 next year, all those problems will dissappear.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Also, Rovo, you should put that into your signature.

ROVOPIO USES SCIENCE TO LISTEN

I'm losing my ***** 

And yes, listening at very low volumes can sometimes cause channel imbalance, making one channel louder than the other. Just turn the input volume down on your computer a bit, and turn the amp up a smidge


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> Also, Rovo, you should put that into your signature.
> 
> ROVOPIO USES SCIENCE TO LISTEN
> 
> ...


 
  
 yeah i used a ruler to slide it per milimeter.
  
 oh!! very low volumes cause channel imbalance. that's new knowledge. thanks!
  
 okay... the SPDIF interface bar on windows is automatically at 100%.
 when i turn it down at 25% only then i get magni 2 uber channel balance on my ma900
  
 i'd like to ask one question about that though... so with external usb DAC, it always automatic at 100%. what's the effect if i turn it down to 50, or in my case 25%? does it becomes less pure or less accurate analog conversion or less something?
  
 and does it affect the sound in a significant way?


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> yeah i used a ruler to slide it per milimeter.
> 
> oh!! very low volumes cause channel imbalance. that's new knowledge. thanks!
> 
> ...



Well, from what I know, the signal goes at 100% through the computer and DAC, so the amp has control over the full dynamic range of the sound. Once you start taking volume away from the source, you're artificially amplifying it the higher it goes on the amp itself. Or something along those lines. That's why I keep the audio from the computer at 100%, so the amp has complete control over the volume. I could be wrong, but so long as you don't reduce the volume on the computer to levels like 10% or less, and then crank up the amp pretty high, the sound should remain fairly high quality. In the case I just mentioned, I'd guess that there would be a lot of distortion ir just plain compressed sound. You should be fine at 25%+ volume on the computer


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> Well, from what I know, the signal goes at 100% through the computer and DAC, so the amp has control over the full dynamic range of the sound. Once you start taking volume away from the source, you're artificially amplifying it the higher it goes on the amp itself. Or something along those lines. That's why I keep the audio from the computer at 100%, so the amp has complete control over the volume. I could be wrong, but so long as you don't reduce the volume on the computer to levels like 10% or less, and then crank up the amp pretty high, the sound should remain fairly high quality. In the case I just mentioned, I'd guess that there would be a lot of distortion ir just plain compressed sound. You should be fine at 25%+ volume on the computer


 
  
 yeah 50 isn't enough for me. i listen  in somewhat low volume than average people.
  
 OTOH, my dt880 is still stranded in osaka
  
 12/25/2014 15:29 Posting/Collection
 12/26/2014 05:04 Dispatch from outward office of exchange
  
 i have a question about artifically amplifying. say i put it at 30. so the signal goes windows OS 30 -> dac 30 -> amp 30*pot roll
  
 if i dont use anything, it goes windows OS 30 -> integrated dac 30 -> integrated amp 30?
 is that right?
  
 because i've lived with direct to motherboard at <30 for a long time before.
 so if that's how it goes, i really don't mind the signal at 30 with the external dac -> magni 2 uber...
  
  
 does my Question make any sense to you?
 haha!


----------



## Pirakaphile

Yup, the question makes sense, and I think at low level listening volumes you should be cool with that setup. It'll be a lot easier to get low volume listening with the higher impendance Beyers once they get back, and then you'll be back in business!


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> Yup, the question makes sense, and I think at low level listening volumes you should be cool with that setup. It'll be a lot easier to get low volume listening with the higher impendance Beyers once they get back, and then you'll be back in business!


 
  
 alright last question, out of curiousity... when i set the windows OS SPDIF volume at 30 instead of 100, does it initially send a 100 signal and then the computer destroy it at 30 when going through to the DAC... so 70 loss, or it's just output 30 from the get-go...? not full 100...
  
 i like watching videos using ma-900 actually. i know that dt880 will be used primarily for music. nothing is better than ma-900 for videos in terms of comfort. YMMV but for me, the headphone disappear.
  
 thanks for being really helpful!


----------



## Pirakaphile

I'm not sure for that one, but I would guess it reduces the original recording volume and takes away some of the detail if you try to play it at the original volume, but if you play it at the volume you have it set for on the computer it should sound just fine. Then again, I don't know much about what I'm talking about now, so this is all speculative. 

Yeah, when I watch youtube, I don't even use my Magni or Modi, I just plug some earbuds into the headphone output. For movies though, I like to get the full experience, so I dim the lights, crank up the volume, and power on my Magni/Modi


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> I'm not sure for that one, but I would guess it reduces the original recording volume and takes away some of the detail if you try to play it at the original volume, but if you play it at the volume you have it set for on the computer it should sound just fine. Then again, I don't know much about what I'm talking about now, so this is all speculative.
> 
> Yeah, when I watch youtube, I don't even use my Magni or Modi, I just plug some earbuds into the headphone output. For movies though, I like to get the full experience, so I dim the lights, crank up the volume, and power on my Magni/Modi


 
  
 speculation is fine really!
  
 let me reiterate again...
  
 by "if you try to play it at original volume" you meant if i set the windows OS SPDIF volume at 30, and then i set the magni at 12 or 1 o'clock, that's artificially amplifying 30% PC signal to half of magni full power....
  
 while what im using now, SPDIF at 25 and modi at 8 o'clock... that's just forwarding similar level of signal...
  
 is that what you mean?


----------



## Eee Pee

Unsubscribing.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> speculation is fine really!
> 
> let me reiterate again...
> 
> ...


yup, what you're doing should be totally fine, just if you ever run into a quieter recording, be sure to turn the computer volume up rather than the amp.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Lol 





eee pee said:


> Unsubscribing.


----------



## superjawes

pirakaphile said:


> Alright, so balanced. What does it mean? What does it do for the music and your headphones? I keep hearing people say stuff about how balanced is a whole new entrance into hi-fidelity music listening. For my long term goal, I would love to get the Mjolnir and Gungnir, but I'd like to learn everything about balanced audio before I get into it, cause I could just stick with the Bifrost/Lyr2 combo as an end-game performance level setup if the benefits won't be worth the extra money.


Short answer: only worry about balanced if you have a balanced pair of headphones AND you like the sound of a balanced amplifier.

Longer answer: balanced is about circuit design. "Normal" single ended headphones have three contacts on the connector. Left, Right, and Ground. The ground is shared for both channels in both the amplifier and the headphones. In a balanced setup, you have four connections. Left+, Left-, Right+, and Right-. Separating the ground of each channel offers the engineer a different set of tools to work around problems with his/her design. To you, it hardly matters at all. If it sounds good, it's good.

Regarding Mjolnir, it is a teeny bit important to note that the circuit topology is inherently balanced, which means that you CANNOT use single ended headphones with it. Schiit built a protection system to protect the amp, but if you try to get around this and cross some wires, that would be no bueno.

PSEDIT: Sound Science has been over this a few times. You could probably read an old thread if you wanted some more information.


----------



## ThurstonX

Fast-Forwarding... oh, look! The end!


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Fast-Forwarding... oh, look! The end!


 
 You missed out on contributing to the monkey business


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> You missed out on contributing to the monkey business


 
  
 Power outage followed by a dead UPS have me otherwise occupied.  I did buy one that produces a pure sine wave, so my PC and Schiit should be happy.  And for $10 extra I get it tomorrow.  Since my Lyr has been running nearly 24/7 for quite a while burning in tubes, I'm giving it all a 24+ hour break.
  
 I sure hope Rangy can lift that old UPS and cable up the new one.  I'll spare him the pain of figuring out the management software.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Power outage followed by a dead UPS have me otherwise occupied.  I did buy one that produces a pure sine wave, so my PC and Schiit should be happy.  And for $10 extra I get it tomorrow.  Since my Lyr has been running nearly 24/7 for quite a while burning in tubes, I'm giving it all a 24+ hour break.
> 
> I sure hope Rangy can lift that old UPS and cable up the new one.  I'll spare him the pain of figuring out the management software.


 
 Replacing tubes or trying something altogether new? Rangy wants the Lyr once you get yourself a new Rag. There will be no rolling with a Rag.


----------



## reddog

I love my Ragnarok but every night, around 2am, I listen to my beloved lyr 2. The Ragnarok, in balanced out is just brilliant However the rag's SE output does not sound as good as my lyr2 SE, especially if I have my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes going.


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> yup, what you're doing should be totally fine, just if you ever run into a quieter recording, be sure to turn the computer volume up rather than the amp.


 
  
 thanks! i've learned a lot of new things so thank you.
 thanks to madwolfa and stanD too for the explanations a couple days ago...
  
  
 Quote:


stand said:


> Replacing tubes or trying something altogether new? Rangy wants the Lyr once you get yourself a new Rag. There will be no rolling with a Rag.


 
  
 my uber arrived!
  
 after it arrived in the local airport, Somebody called me about priority line. The goods were then delivered 2 weeks early in exchange for a $100. that was yesterday. yeay!!


----------



## Guidostrunk

O.o $100? 





rovopio said:


> my uber arrived!
> 
> the customs let the goods out 2 weeks early in exchange for a $100. yeay!!


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Thats messed up that you have to pay customs money to get an item that should be allowed into your country for free. The way some countries handle international commerce is pretty sad.


----------



## rovopio

guidostrunk said:


> O.o $100?


 
  
 that's $100 on bumping the waiting line for customs checking that's supposed to be 7-14 days. workdays. 14 work days is 3 weeks mate!
  
 so yeah, that's on top of them taxes... Fedex will deliver me their invoice in 2 weeks (idk why they cant just deliver them at the same day). but my calculation they charge broker fee $15 warehouse charge $10 and 40-something % of taxes on top of that.
  
 thank you local fedex! as long as it's a modestly priced item, you guys are the best.
 though im not gonna use you for something that'll cost me upward of a grand
  


thedragonguy said:


> Thats messed up that you have to pay customs money to get an item that should be allowed into your country for free. The way some countries handle international commerce is pretty sad.


 
  
 schiit told me that to my region, not just this country but to the region, a large majority (they said 90% on one of their posts) of the transactions originating from the region is frauds. hahahahaha. that made me laugh out loud.
  
 but i can't say that's entirely wrong. there's probably a lot of indecent stuffs going on starting from the goods enter the country.  so third party consignee service / forwarder are thriving like mad here.
  
 i rarely use them due to complications regarding warranty though.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wow. And the little things we take for granted , here in the US. That's terrible what you have to go through. 





rovopio said:


> that's $100 on bumping the waiting line for customs checking that's supposed to be 7-14 days. workdays. 14 work days is 3 weeks mate!
> 
> so yeah, that's on top of them taxes... Fedex will deliver me their invoice in 2 weeks (idk why they cant just deliver them at the same day). but my calculation they charge broker fee $15 warehouse charge $10 and 40-something % of taxes on top of that.
> 
> ...


----------



## rovopio

guidostrunk said:


> Wow. And the little things we take for granted , here in the US. That's terrible what you have to go through.


 
  
 i spent the rest of my life in Japan before moving to south east asia.
  
 the worst part is paying $120 for 0.5mbps internet (well, it's 1mbps actually but who's counting when it's "up to"). and public censorship as well. so my google searches, first pages are usually local language sites or piracy sites. i think the DNS service that the ISP forces us to use, the google settings for that particular DNS, linked to somebody's google account that download a lot of stuff.
  
 no judgement here, it's just facts.
  
 ---
 i like company like schiit that do direct selling because the aftersales service of local distributor is flaky at best.
  
 if any of you wanted to read about the local after sales service...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/429371/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-discussion-thread/8355#post_11149329


----------



## whitedragon551

New to the club. Just got the Wyrd, Modi, and Vali for my home setup.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Have you tried Tor or i2p to get around censorship? I proxy and vpn all the time. 





rovopio said:


> i spent the rest of my life in Japan before moving to south east asia.
> 
> the worst part is paying $120 for 0.5mbps internet (well, it's 1mbps actually but who's counting when it's "up to"). and public censorship as well. so my google searches, first pages are usually local language sites or piracy sites. i think the DNS service that the ISP forces us to use, the google settings for that particular DNS, linked to somebody's google account that download a lot of stuff.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jazz1

whitedragon551 said:


> New to the club. Just got the Wyrd, Modi, and Vali for my home setup.


 

 I want to join the club next pay day


----------



## reddog

whitedragon551 said:


> New to the club. Just got the Wyrd, Modi, and Vali for my home setup.



Welcome to club Schiit, hope your rig always make your headphones sing like a muse of fire.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 


reddog said:


> Welcome to club Schiit, hope your rig always make your headphones sing like a muse of fire.


----------



## rovopio

guidostrunk said:


> Have you tried Tor or i2p to get around censorship? I proxy and vpn all the time.


 
  
 there is no way im using tor or VPN for 0.5mbps internet. those services makes internet access even slower.
  
 im actually thinking of getting the 5mbps internet package. im still considering paying the fiber optic cable installation to my place though, that cost a lot. but the upside, the monthly payment will be $45 instead of the current one.
  
 the fiber optic installation cost so much.
  
 on the schiit end, i was considering getting wyrd initially.  but i didn't know what it'll do and i had my hands full of understanding the amps hehe!
 magni is surprisingly smaller than i thought. it looks so cute
  
 so congratulations whitedragon, if you could post here how wyrd affect your system that'd be great...


----------



## 12kurupt

First time posting on the forums.

 I currently run the A2/Uber Bifrost stack with my HE-500s. I just picked up the Uber Mag2/Mod2 stack for my dad to use with the AKG K7XX headphones I bought him for christmas. Going to sell my Mag/Mod 1 stack and save up for the lyr 2 next. Love my Schiit.


----------



## jeremy205100

12kurupt said:


> First time posting on the forums.
> 
> I currently run the A2/Uber Bifrost stack with my HE-500s. I just picked up the Uber Mag2/Mod2 stack for my dad to use with the AKG K7XX headphones I bought him for christmas. Going to sell my Mag/Mod 1 stack and save up for the lyr 2 next. Love my Schiit.


 

 How does the Uber stack compare to the Asgard 2 and Uber Bifrost? I'm very interested in any opinions you could provide, especially with the Bifrost vs. the Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## 12kurupt

jeremy205100 said:


> How does the Uber stack compare to the Asgard 2 and Uber Bifrost? I'm very interested in any opinions you could provide, especially with the Bifrost vs. the Modi 2 Uber.


 

 I just ordered today, so I won't be receiving them for a few weeks based on the email I received from customer service. Hopefully, by then, someone else will have this comparison up. If not, I'll do my best to give my impressions on the differences between the two. I'm fairly new to all this hifi quality equipment and terminology, so I may not be the best person to give my impressions in the appropriate thread.


----------



## Neo-ST

Haven't been following the forums lately, but I've noticed they released Magni 2.
 I have Magni "1", is there some crucial difference ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## StanD

neo-st said:


> Haven't been following the forums lately, but I've noticed they released Magni 2.
> I have Magni "1", is there some crucial difference ?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Start reading at the below link.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family


----------



## Neo-ST

I see...no big difference.
 I thought I should worry


----------



## StanD

neo-st said:


> I see...no big difference.
> I thought I should worry


 
 If I already owned a Magni 1, which I do, I wouldn't lose sleep over the Magni 2 unless I needed the gain switch or had a pair of 16 Ohm cans that needed a little more power. I'm not aware of any 16 Ohm cans that require the 2.1 Watts of the Uber. If I was buying the first time, I'd get the Uber. The Modi 2 Uber instills visions of a mini version of my Bifrost Uber USB at an astounding price.


----------



## rovopio

the aluminium finish.
  
 smart move on (jason) and schiit's part. magni 2 is an affordable amp. some subset of potential buyers would be people that are new to dac and amp world. to differentiate between magni 2 and magni 2 uber, add "aluminium" finish!
  
 that works. at least to me personally it worked.


----------



## MattTCG

The question for me is how close the modi 2u gets to the bifrost. Hmm...


----------



## StanD

matttcg said:


> The question for me is how close the modi 2u gets to the bifrost. Hmm...


 
 Probably closer than I or other Bifrost owners would want to admit.


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> Probably closer than I or other Bifrost owners would want to admit.




I wld seriously hope not. even tho i never owned the modi, its performance often gets compared to stuff like the odac and some ppl even say super budgt stuff like the ud110v2 or hifimediy may be just as good or better.

considering the x5 price bump to the bifrost, i wld hope there are some substantial improvements in SQ.


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> I wld seriously hope not. even tho i never owned the modi, its performance often gets compared to stuff like the odac and some ppl even say super budgt stuff like the ud110v2 or hifimediy may be just as good or better.
> 
> considering the x5 price bump to the bifrost, i wld hope there are some substantial improvements in SQ.


 
 You win the prize, my 4,000th post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You see, your hoping for some substantial improvements in SQ as well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   In any case, my Bifrost is staying put.


----------



## madwolfa

Just pulled the trigger for an open box set of my first serious IEMs - Shure SE846 (Amazon Warehouse deal for under $800).
 Really interested to try them on my Schiit stack.


----------



## AladdinSane

Are you mad? That's a step up in IEMs for Shure. Hahahahahahaha! Let us know your impressions.


----------



## StanD

madwolfa said:


> Just pulled the trigger for an open box set of my first serious IEMs - Shure SE846 (Amazon Warehouse deal for under $800).
> Really interested to try them on my Schiit stack.


 
 That's some serious Schiit. I'd like to hear your opinion of those Shures, so let's get listening.


----------



## SuperU

*A Big Public Thank you to Schiit and Alex*
  
 So I ordered my Schiit and couldn't have been more excited. It was shipped almost immediately. Unbelievably fast.
  
 Then the problems started. FedEx, in their wisdom decided to deliver my Schiit to some other address. Wherever they were delivered, the package was signed for and accepted. 
  
 We reported that we had not received the items. So FedEx tried to hunt them down.
  
 Then things got even weirder. FedEx reported that somebody had ordered the address to be changed, which prompted thoughts of hacked email. 
  
 During this time, we were in touch with FedEx and through being very persistent, discovered that there really was no hacked anything, and it was their own Miami office that decided to make this change. As to why, they suggested that the business they ultimately delivered these too had moved to this location from the old address that they were actually addressed to. Basically a cluster screw.
  
 Of course, none of this was the fault of Schiit. They did their job, and did it very well and quickly. This was 100% a FedEx screwup.
  
 FedEx admitted their mistake and agreed to pay for the Schiit they delivered wrongly. 
  
 During this time, I was getting quite frustrated. I did finally reach out privately to Jason and he put me in touch immediately with Alex. And Alex resolved the issues, literally in minutes.
  
 Schiit immediately reshipped everything and this time it made it to the right address. While I have yet to receive it and probably won't get it for another couple of weeks, I just wanted to publicly say *a big thank you to Jason, Alex and everyone at Schiit. *
  
 I hope everyone at Schiit and the community here at Head-Fi has a wonderful New Year. I'm excited to see what additional Schiit is going to be made available this coming year.


----------



## Jazz1

superu said:


> *A Big Public Thank you to Schiit and Alex*
> 
> So I ordered my Schiit and couldn't have been more excited. It was shipped almost immediately. Unbelievably fast.
> 
> ...


 

 I had FEDEX do that to me twice! The first time I had something fairly expensive delivered to the wrong address, and it was never recovered. The second time it was a bunch of books to the right number house, but to the wrong street. Luckily the person at the wrong address took the time to track me down. I rewarded him with some craft beer. 
  
 Schmitt seems like a really stand up business. I'll be doing business with them soon.


----------



## SuperU

jazz1 said:


> I had FEDEX do that to me twice! The first time I had something fairly expensive delivered to the wrong address, and it was never recovered. The second time it was a bunch of books to the right number house, but to the wrong street. Luckily the person at the wrong address took the time to track me down. I rewarded him with some craft beer.
> 
> Schmitt seems like a really stand up business. I'll be doing business with them soon.


 
 Wow, twice - not good. Yeah and the place they delivered my stuff absconded with it. Someone is probably really enjoying it. But Fedex admitted wrong and made it right. 
  
 But even before they paid, Schiit resent me what I ordered. They are a stand up business. A great group of people. 
  
 I'm glad to hear you will be ordering from them. Sometimes you only know how good an organization is by how they handle adversity. And Schiit sure have done right by me.


----------



## MattTCG

superu said:


> *A Big Public Thank you to Schiit and Alex*
> 
> So I ordered my Schiit and couldn't have been more excited. It was shipped almost immediately. Unbelievably fast.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, glad that you got it all sorted out and the boys at Schiit took care of you. They are tremendous IMO. But you didn't say what you ordered.
  
 FedEx, UPS don't like any of them. FedEx delivered my daughter iphone 6 to the wrong address and it was never recovered.


----------



## Guidostrunk

After reading these last few posts, I have the utmost respect for schiit. They'll have a life long customer , with me. They absolutely understand how to run a business. I'll recommend them to everyone inside & outside of headfi , who's considering getting into the hobby.


----------



## SuperU

matttcg said:


> Well, glad that you got it all sorted out and the boys at Schiit took care of you. They are tremendous IMO. But you didn't say what you ordered.
> 
> FedEx, UPS don't like any of them. FedEx delivered my daughter iphone 6 to the wrong address and it was never recovered.


 
 Asgard 2 with a Bifrost Uber USB 
  
 And I'm still thinking about getting a Lyr 2.
  
 And I've received my Mad Dog Pro headphones which I'm absolutely LOVING.


----------



## wahsmoh

superu said:


> Asgard 2 with a Bifrost Uber USB
> 
> And I'm still thinking about getting a Lyr 2.
> 
> And I've received my Mad Dog Pro headphones which I'm absolutely LOVING.


 

 Asgard 2 and Bifrost Uber pair amazing with my Alpha Dogs. I have not yet had the chance to compare Lyr 2 to the A2 with the Uberfrost. I will say though I feel I am not missing anything from this sound.. clean, detailed, dynamic, and slightly on the warm side the Asgard 2 is the perfect SE solid state amp.


----------



## SuperU

Wonderful to hear that. 
  
 What I really want are the MrSpeaker Alpha Prime *IF* they are *that* much better than what I have. Maybe even the LCD-X if they are better. Not sure the price is really justified on those when one can have the Alpha Primes for $999. 
  
 But I had to start somewhere. And even before getting my Schiit, the Mad Dog Pro's are amazing. I had no idea sound could be so good.
  
 Can't wait for my Schiit to get here. Hopefully before Jan. 15.


----------



## Delirious Lab

aladdinsane said:


> Are you mad? That's a step up in IEMs for Shure. Hahahahahahaha! Let us know your impressions.


 
 How dare you make a Shure pun in a Schiit thread.  I'm Shure as Schiit that it's unacceptable.


----------



## Jazz1

delirious lab said:


> How dare you make a Shure pun in a Schiit thread.  I'm Shure as Schiit that it's unacceptable.


 

 You really are a Schittster!


----------



## BeatsWork

jazz1 said:


> You really are a Schittster!


 
 I'm Shure you meant Schiit stirrer


----------



## BeatsWork

delirious lab said:


> How dare you make a Shure pun in a Schiit thread.  I'm Shure as Schiit that it's unacceptable.


 

 Ohm my god that was awful. Can we please keep comments balanced.


----------



## Billheiser

beatswork said:


> Ohm my god that was awful. Can we please keep comments balanced.



But then we would have no common ground.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> But then we would have no common ground.


 
 Currenty we have an endless capacity for Schiit.


----------



## Jazz1

stand said:


> Currenty we have an endless capacity for Schiit.


 

 I'm thinking about starting a thread called Schist Joke Anonymous. We all take to pledge to become a "Schiit Kicker" and not make any more Schist jokes. Don't ban me, I'm serious, well sort of.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Currenty we have an endless capacity for Schiit.


 
  
  


jazz1 said:


> I'm thinking about starting a thread called Schist Joke Anonymous. We all take to pledge to become a "Schiit Kicker" and not make any more Schist jokes. Don't ban me, I'm serious, well sort of.


 
 You're so Fulla Schiit, typical serial Schiit customer. I'd get a Fulla but my cup runneth over with DACs.


----------



## ThurstonX

jazz1 said:


> I'm thinking about starting a thread called Schist Joke Anonymous. We all take to pledge to become a "Schiit Kicker" and not make any more Schist jokes. Don't ban me, I'm serious, well sort of.


 
  
 Oh schiit, now we're *really* off-topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schist  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 (schiity spell-check, I reckon 
  
 Well, my Schiit does rock, so.... baaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!!!


----------



## Michael V

Is there a difference in sound quality if I run the bifrost through spdif or usb? I'd rather save money and not get the usb version since my sound card on my computer has a spdif port.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

michael v said:


> Is there a difference in sound quality if I run the bifrost through spdif or usb? I'd rather save money and not get the usb version since my sound card on my computer has a spdif port.


 
  
 You'd be limited by the sound card's internal dac, so if it can't play 88.2 or 176.4, you're out of luck.


----------



## bearFNF

blackenedplague said:


> You'd be limited by the sound card's internal dac, so if it can't play 88.2 or 176.4, you're out of luck.


 

 UM, What??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 S/PDIF (coaxial or toslink) is digital so would still need to use the Bifrosts DAC not the Sound cards DAC....


----------



## scizzro

bearfnf said:


> UM, What??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've heard some people say that toslink is better than coax because of electrical isolation, is there any merit to that? :S


----------



## Guidostrunk

Sure. Why not. If you already have the spdif option, save yourself some money. 





michael v said:


> Is there a difference in sound quality if I run the bifrost through spdif or usb? I'd rather save money and not get the usb version since my sound card on my computer has a spdif port.


----------



## Michael V

blackenedplague said:


> You'd be limited by the sound card's internal dac, so if it can't play 88.2 or 176.4, you're out of luck.


 
  
 I hope that's not true. The sound card I'm planning to use only supports up to 96


bearfnf said:


> UM, What??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I hope thats true. Since im getting the bifrost I wanted to return my asus xonar stx and use my old xonar dg for optical to the bifrost. 


guidostrunk said:


> Sure. Why not. If you already have the spdif option, save yourself some money.


 
 Alright.


----------



## money4me247

michael v said:


> I hope that's not true. The sound card I'm planning to use only supports up to 96
> 
> I hope thats true. Since im getting the bifrost I wanted to return my asus xonar stx and use my old xonar dg for optical to the bifrost.
> Alright.


 
 From Schiit's website:
  
 Inputs: Coaxial SPDIF, Optical SPDIF, USB (optional) 
 Input Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs, including 24/176.4
  
 the whole point of a dac is to bypass your computer's internal sound card, so your internal sound card does not matter at all.


----------



## bearFNF

scizzro said:


> I've heard some people say that toslink is better than coax because of electrical isolation, is there any merit to that? :S


 
 Electrical isolation could be an issue but if the system and components are properly grounded and have good connections there should be no issues. IMO

 Well, toslink could have jitter issues if the cable is not kept straight (i.e. no kinks or twists).  Toslink also does not care how long the cable is, while coaxial signal degrades over long runs.  Very long runs.
 Component to component in the same rack wont care either way.  Next issue would be the quality of the connectors, both cable types would like to have good quality terminations.


----------



## Guidostrunk

If he's using optical out , he wouldn't be using the internal dac, right? Isn't optical a digital transfer prior to the bifrost converting it to analog? 





money4me247 said:


> From Schiit's website:
> 
> Inputs: Coaxial SPDIF, Optical SPDIF, USB (optional) [COLOR=8F8F8F]
> [/COLOR]
> ...


----------



## Michael V

money4me247 said:


> From Schiit's website:
> 
> Inputs: Coaxial SPDIF, Optical SPDIF, USB (optional)
> Input Capability: up to 24/192 for all inputs, including 24/176.4
> ...


 
  
 Alright just making sure, thanks for clearing it up. I just didn't want to pay extra for usb if I don't need it.


bearfnf said:


> Electrical isolation could be an issue but if the system and components are properly grounded and have good connections there should be no issues. IMO
> 
> Well, toslink could have jitter issues if the cable is not kept straight (i.e. no kinks or twists).  Toslink also does not care how long the cable is, while coaxial signal degrades over long runs.  Very long runs.
> Component to component in the same rack wont care either way.  Next issue would be the quality of the connectors, both cable types would like to have good quality terminations.


 
 I have an audioquest cinammon optical cable so it should be good, it's long enough where I don't have to kink it.  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-optilink-cinnamon-4-9-digital-optical-interconnect-cable-red/2926076.p?id=1218364489019&skuId=2926076


----------



## madwolfa

guidostrunk said:


> If he's using optical out , he wouldn't be using the internal dac, right? Isn't optical a digital transfer prior to the bifrost converting it to analog?


 
  
 The source (sound card) would still need to support the needed playback resolution (like 24/192) for the digital output.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Okay well from personal experience, I was not able to output 88.2 or 176.4 through optical, and 192 was buggy as hell. I don't know if that was because of my receiver or what, maybe I'll check the input of my interface with the optical


----------



## Michael V

Alright so the xonar stx supports 192/24. When I said spdif earlier, i meant the optical toslink. Since I'm getting the bifrost I don't have a need for the stx anymore and I just purchased it last week so I want to return it if it won't make a difference with my other sound card the xonar dg. The dg has optical/toslink out but only supports 96/24. If it really is dependant on the soundcard then I will have to keep the stx then.


----------



## BeatsWork

scizzro said:


> I've heard some people say that toslink is better than coax because of electrical isolation, is there any merit to that? :S


 

 Quite possibly depending on your PC. I have a high end Frankenstein rig. Dedicated USB card etc. and I still get weird noises with some DACS (i.e. mouse movement) which was resolved by USB isolator. So IF your PC happens to be electrically noisy then YES toslink could be better option. I see other people already noting though that highest bit/sample rates may be problematic with toslink. Haven't really used toslink from PC to DAC so can't comment. If I had to choose between noise and being limited to 16/192 no question I'd be downsampling


----------



## madwolfa

beatswork said:


> Quite possibly depending on your PC. I have a high end Frankenstein rig. Dedicated USB card etc. and I still get weird noises with some DACS (i.e. mouse movement) which was resolved by USB isolator. So IF your PC happens to be electrically noisy then YES toslink could be better option. I see other people already noting though that highest bit/sample rates may be problematic with toslink. Haven't really used toslink from PC to DAC so can't comment. If I had to choose between noise and being limited to 16/192 no question I'd be downsampling


 
  
 I have ground loop hum when connecting my PC to the big rig with anything but Toslink (like USB). Honestly, I'm fine with downsampling to 24/96 for the sake of quiet background and electrical isolation. Most of my mysic is 16/44 anyway (24/192 are vinyl rips and some rare HD downloads).


----------



## Michael V

beatswork said:


> Quite possibly depending on your PC. I have a high end Frankenstein rig. Dedicated USB card etc. and I still get weird noises with some DACS (i.e. mouse movement) which was resolved by USB isolator. So IF your PC happens to be electrically noisy then YES toslink could be better option. I see other people already noting though that highest bit/sample rates may be problematic with toslink. Haven't really used toslink from PC to DAC so can't comment. If I had to choose between noise and being limited to 16/192 no question I'd be downsampling


 
 Hmm I'm actually getting the weird noises when I move my mouse as well. I have the lyr 2 connected to the rca out on the xonar stx currently. Hopefully that noise will go away when I use toslink to the bifrost.


----------



## madwolfa

michael v said:


> Hmm I'm actually getting the weird noises when I move my mouse as well. I have the lyr 2 connected to the rca out on the xonar stx currently. Hopefully that noise will go away when I use toslink to the bifrost.


 
  
 Most probably it will.


----------



## Tuco1965

I was surprised to read this today. http://www.cbc.ca/television/posts/schitts-creek-premieres-january-13-on-cbc-television
  
 Yeah I know, totally unrelated, but that name.


----------



## iJimmy

Hey guys,
  
 I'm not that experienced in DACs and amps and only own a Vali which I love using with TH600 and loved using it with my D7000. Do you guys think I would benefit from getting the Modi 2 as well? Would pairing it with a Fulla make any sense at all?
  
 Thanks!
 Jimmy


----------



## Zojokkeli

ijimmy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm not that experienced in DACs and amps and only own a Vali which I love using with TH600 and loved using it with my D7000. Do you guys think I would benefit from getting the Modi 2 as well? Would pairing it with a Fulla make any sense at all?
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're listening to music from a computer without proper soundcard, adding Modi to the chain would make perfect sense.


----------



## bearFNF

ijimmy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm not that experienced in DACs and amps and only own a Vali which I love using with TH600 and loved using it with my D7000. Do you guys think I would benefit from getting the Modi 2 as well? Would pairing it with a Fulla make any sense at all?
> 
> ...


 
 The fulla is a DAC/Amp with no line out so the Modi 2 would be the way to go, unless you want to stop using the Vali and only use the Fulla (which I would not do since you already have the Vali) or unless you want a portable solution for a laptop...


----------



## nordkapp

I am making my first foray into headphone gear, coming from 20 years of hifi 2 channel stereo. My wyrd, modi 2 and vali are set to arrive next week. I am using a pair of HD580. Looking forward to my new hobby.


----------



## jaywillin

nordkapp said:


> I am making my first foray into headphone gear, coming from 20 years of hifi 2 channel stereo. My wyrd, modi 2 and vali are set to arrive next week. I am using a pair of HD580. Looking forward to my new hobby.


 
 welcome aboard !
 i have the vali/magni 2 uber/modi, wyrd, and love it
 i cane from 2 channel hifi, and i'm having a ton of fun
 i've had some pretty expensive stuff, and the schiit gives about 90% of that "high end" sound, at a fraction of the cost


----------



## Guidostrunk

Welcome to the club. Let someone hide your wallet. Lol 





nordkapp said:


> I am making my first foray into headphone gear, coming from 20 years of hifi 2 channel stereo. My wyrd, modi 2 and vali are set to arrive next week. I am using a pair of HD580. Looking forward to my new hobby.


----------



## nordkapp

guidostrunk said:


> Welcome to the club. Let someone hide your wallet. Lol


I think of all the scratch I've dumped overtheyears and itmakes me realize I likely will never be able to retire. Haha.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I've been at it since the old Walkman days. Lol. When you love music, it's impossible to walk away. I've been through a lot of different methods to hear music. Dj equipment, studio equipment, home theater etc. The best part about the headphone route , it's definitely been the cheapest method for my music , addiction. Lol. 





nordkapp said:


> I think of all the scratch I've dumped overtheyears and itmakes me realize I likely will never be able to retire. Haha.


----------



## nordkapp

guidostrunk said:


> I've been at it since the old Walkman days. Lol. When you love music, it's impossible to walk away. I've been through a lot of different methods to hear music. Dj equipment, studio equipment, home theater etc. The best part about the headphone route , it's definitely been the cheapest method for my music , addiction. Lol.


right retirement is over rated any way. Haha. Really looking forward to this new way, like you say, to enjoy music. Regards, nordkapp


----------



## Michael V

I just got the bifrost uber and it will not play 192khz tracks. I have the asus xonar stx soundcard in my computer using optical out to the bifrost. The xonar supports 192khz.


----------



## madwolfa

michael v said:


> I just got the bifrost uber and it will not play 192khz tracks. I have the asus xonar stx soundcard in my computer using optical out to the bifrost. The xonar supports 192khz.


 
  
 It's either source or cable. Personally I've never been able to play 192Khz through optical S/PDIF with neither Bifrost nor V-DAC I/II.
 It seems to be a source Toslink transceiver limitation (mine is onboard Realtek ALC888) as $150 WireWorld optical cable didn't make any difference.


----------



## Michael V

madwolfa said:


> It's either source or cable. Personally I've never been able to play 192Khz through optical S/PDIF with neither Bifrost nor V-DAC I/II.
> In my case cable didn't matter - $150 WireWorld Supernova optical cable didn't help. So it seems to be a source transceiver limitation (I have an onboard Realtek ALC888).


 
 I got it working. For some reason 192khz songs work in foobar but not in jriver media center. I have an expensive cable as well so I was hoping that the cable wasn't the problem lol.


----------



## 520RanchBro

michael v said:


> I got it working. For some reason 192khz songs work in foobar but not in jriver media center. I have an expensive cable as well so I was hoping that the cable wasn't the problem lol.


 
 Even after changing the proper DSP and output settings it wouldn't work? 192khz appears to work fine with my Modi 2 Uber and JRiver. Hoping I don't run in to this problem down the road.


----------



## Michael V

520ranchbro said:


> Even after changing the proper DSP and output settings it wouldn't work? 192khz appears to work fine with my Modi 2 Uber and JRiver. Hoping I don't run in to this problem down the road.


 
 I got it to work in Jriver now. I had it set on my old output, but for some reason it would still play music except for 192khz. I set it to the spdif output on my soundcard and everything is working fine now. Just a slight mistake on my part.


----------



## Guidostrunk

nordkapp said:


> right retirement is over rated any way. Haha. Really looking forward to this new way, like you say, to enjoy music. Regards, nordkapp


----------



## money4me247

I just received my new Schiit Bifrost Uber w/ USB Gen2. I want to thank Schiit for taking care of me, providing fast shipping over the holidays, and their solid customer service.
  
 Impressions: I do like this product and I do feel like there is a noticeable improvement in sound quality. Just started listening so hard to describe the improvements & have not gotten to do any direct blind ABx testing. May post some more detailed impressions later. Overall, I would recommend Schiit's products.
  
 Even after this purchase, I do still believe that the audio differences between adding a DAC or different DACs are quite small and subtle relative to the sonic differences in headphones. This is my most expensive DAC purchased and it does seem to have the most easily appreciable improvement in sound quality. A lot more noticeable than the previous DACs I've tried. I can understand why this DAC is so widely recommended.
  
 So is it worth $535.47? I guess it depends. This is a great product and I am personally quite satisfied. However, I currently own $1,400 worth of various headphones, $510 of amplifiers, and $59 of dacs (not including stuff that I've returned or sold). Adding this component to my chain makes me feel like I have maximized all the sound quality that I can personally appreciate. I have definitely reached the point of diminishing returns & I am happy just sitting tight at this point.
  
 I still think it is wise for budget conscious buyers to invest in in nicer headphones first (especially if you are below the $200 price point) and then ensure the headphones have adequate amplification before moving onto DACs. When you are ready to move up from an entry level dac or if you want to start with a high quality dac, the Schiit Bifrost Uber is an excellent option.


----------



## nordkapp

money4me247 said:


> I just received my new Schiit Bifrost Uber w/ USB Gen2. I want to thank Schiit for taking care of me, providing fast shipping over the holidays, and their solid customer service.
> 
> Impressions: I do like this product and I do feel like there is a noticeable improvement in sound quality. Just started listening so hard to describe the improvements & have not gotten to do any direct blind ABx testing. May post some more detailed impressions later. Overall, I would recommend Schiit's products.
> 
> ...


Well said. Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

money4me247 said:


> I just received my new Schiit Bifrost Uber w/ USB Gen2. I want to thank Schiit for taking care of me, providing fast shipping over the holidays, and their solid customer service.
> 
> Impressions: I do like this product and I do feel like there is a noticeable improvement in sound quality. Just started listening so hard to describe the improvements & have not gotten to do any direct blind ABx testing. May post some more detailed impressions later. Overall, I would recommend Schiit's products.
> 
> ...




Congratulations on your move up from "the perfect sound forever", ODAC.......jking.....


----------



## money4me247

wildcatsare1 said:


> Congratulations on your move up from "the perfect sound forever", ODAC.......jking.....


 
 hahaha i had a stoner acoustic ud110v2.
  
 edit: not sure why you always associate me with the odac & nwavguy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 never owned the odac. hahah.


----------



## Faithless

I was doubt about Wyrd.
Really don't believe in usb improvements by adding another chain component.
But after testing and compare... All my opinions changed.
Wyrd does a great job... Not only by killing the usb noise.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

money4me247 said:


> hahaha i had a stoner acoustic ud110v2.
> 
> edit: not sure why you always associate me with the odac & nwavguy.
> 
> ...


 

 Old age moment, I reckon, anyway enjoy your Uber Bifrost.


----------



## Michael V

I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.


----------



## hodgjy

michael v said:


> I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.


 
  
 The ugly truth is many people can't hear a difference. For those of us who can (I can), they are subtle differences that you have to train your ears over time to recognize.


----------



## nordkapp

michael v said:


> I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.


oh man that's rough. IDK what to tell you there. My schit stack is coming in soon-your're scaring me.


----------



## Michael V

hodgjy said:


> The ugly truth is many people can't hear a difference. For those of us who can (I can), they are subtle differences that you have to train your ears over time to recognize.


 
  
  


nordkapp said:


> oh man that's rough. IDK what to tell you there. My schit stack is coming in soon-your're scaring me.


 
  
  
 I'm hearing a difference between hooking up straight to my laptop vs the schiit stack, but comparing the desktop vs the schiit stack, they sound exactly the same.


----------



## hodgjy

michael v said:


> I'm hearing a difference between hooking up straight to my laptop vs the schiit stack, but comparing the desktop vs the schiit stack, they sound exactly the same.


 
 Laptops have notoriously horrible headphone jacks. At least desktops sometimes have pretty competent sound cards.


----------



## Michael V

hodgjy said:


> Laptops have notoriously horrible headphone jacks. At least desktops sometimes have pretty competent sound cards.


 
 Do you think its because im using optical(toslink)? I wish I had the usb version of the bifrost to try it out.


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 





hodgjy said:


> The ugly truth is many people can't hear a difference. For those of us who can (I can), they are subtle differences that you have to train your ears over time to recognize.


----------



## hodgjy

michael v said:


> Do you think its because im using optical(toslink)? I wish I had the usb version of the bifrost to try it out.


 
 Optical is fine. It's what I use. I hear no difference when using coax/optical/usb. I use optical to decouple electrical connections.


----------



## Michael V

hodgjy said:


> Optical is fine. It's what I use. I hear no difference when using coax/optical/usb. I use optical to decouple electrical connections.


 
 Hmm. It's just weird because when I upgraded from the bravo audio v3 tube amp to the lyr 2 I heard a discernible difference. But going from the asus xonar stx soundcard to the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack I don't hear a difference at all. And somehow they all sound the same whether I plug the headphones straight into the computer, into the soundcard, or into the schiit stack.


----------



## mkozlows

michael v said:


> Do you think its because im using optical(toslink)? I wish I had the usb version of the bifrost to try it out.


 
 No. Any difference there would be between optical and USB would be much, much, much smaller than the difference between using your internal soundcard and using an external DAC and a tube hybrid amp. If you can't hear a difference between these two setups with optical, you won't hear it with USB. 
  
 (And it's totally reasonable not to hear a difference, if your computer was providing enough power to drive those headphones well at the level you listen to.)


----------



## hodgjy

michael v said:


> Hmm. It's just weird because when I upgraded from the bravo audio v3 tube amp to the lyr 2 I heard a discernible difference. But going from the asus xonar stx soundcard to the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack I don't hear a difference at all. And somehow they all sound the same whether I plug the headphones straight into the computer, into the soundcard, or into the schiit stack.


 
 The Xonar is pretty good as far as sound cards go. 
  
 Just give your brain and ears time to develop. There will be very slight differences that you will begin to perceive. Have one reference track that you know inside and out. Listen to the small details. The etching in the track. The high pitch from a triangle. Or the rub of fingers on a guitar string. The decay of a piano note. Focus on them. Listen to it again and again over days and weeks.
  
 Then change sources.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

michael v said:


> I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.


 

 The 650's are not the greatest resolving cans out there, but listen for the little things, soundstage/imaging cues, brush strokes on cymbals, an acoustic bass, plucked or picked, speed, dynamics, contrast between notes, decay, pick a couple of favorite, well known songs and A/B them  (pick some well recorded acoustic).


----------



## Michael V

mkozlows said:


> No. Any difference there would be between optical and USB would be much, much, much smaller than the difference between using your internal soundcard and using an external DAC and a tube hybrid amp. If you can't hear a difference between these two setups with optical, you won't hear it with USB.
> 
> (And it's totally reasonable not to hear a difference, if your computer was providing enough power to drive those headphones well at the level you listen to.)


 
  
  


hodgjy said:


> The Xonar is pretty good as far as sound cards go.
> 
> Just give your brain and ears time to develop. There will be very slight differences that you will begin to perceive. Have one reference track that you know inside and out. Listen to the small details. The etching in the track. The high pitch from a triangle. Or the rub of fingers on a guitar string. The decay of a piano note. Focus on them. Listen to it again and again over days and weeks.
> 
> Then change sources.


 
  
  


wildcatsare1 said:


> The 650's are not the greatest resolving cans out there, but listen for the little things, soundstage/imaging cues, brush strokes on cymbals, an acoustic bass, plucked or picked, speed, dynamics, contrast between notes, decay, pick a couple of favorite, well known songs and A/B them  (pick some well recorded acoustic).


 
  
  
 I'll just let it break in and see how it is in a week in a half and decide from there.


----------



## rovopio

my grado sr60 doesn't sound any different either plugged into ODAC or fiio e12 or straight from my PC.
  
 sure if i nitpick, the bass is better, the speed is even faster, and the soundstage a little better. but really, not by much.
  
 i think that's what you're experiencing right now. something definitely changes, just not as much as you previously expected.
  
 burning in (and for a week), won't change much, definitely won't change from zero to 60. your brain however, will get used to the sound and will appreciate it more. brain has ability to adapt. at the end of the week, you will find the 650 better from your stack because your brain are used to it, rather than it actually changes that much within the week.
  
 it won't change that much.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rovopio said:


> my grado sr60 doesn't sound any different either plugged into ODAC or fiio e12 or straight from my PC.
> 
> sure if i nitpick, the bass is better, the speed is even faster, and the soundstage a little better. but really, not by much.
> 
> ...



At 32 ohms impendance, I'm sure your computer has a pretty easy time driving your grados, but I found that the difference between my headphone out and Magni/Modi stack was a pretty big change for the better. However, high impendence cans, and power hungry orthos almost certainly need extra amplification. Try to play the HiFiMAN HE-6 from anything other than a powerful amp and you're sure to get a terrible result. 
In retrospect, most popular headphones are easy to drive and have low impendence, which is what laptops, cellphones, and media players are designed to drive. 
You'll only hear a difference if you're looking for that difference, and as an audiophile I can certainly hear a difference in amplification due to the fact that I've got exceptional hearing. 
Whew, what a blab I can be


----------



## rovopio

pirakaphile said:


> At 32 ohms impendance, I'm sure your computer has a pretty easy time driving your grados, but I found that the difference between my headphone out and Magni/Modi stack was a pretty big change for the better. However, high impendence cans, and power hungry orthos almost certainly need extra amplification. Try to play the HiFiMAN HE-6 from anything other than a powerful amp and you're sure to get a terrible result.
> In retrospect, most popular headphones are easy to drive and have low impendence, which is what laptops, cellphones, and media players are designed to drive.
> You'll only hear a difference if you're looking for that difference, and as an audiophile I can certainly hear a difference in amplification due to the fact that I've got exceptional hearing.
> Whew, what a blab I can be


 
  
 basically what i was saying to michael V is that, waiting burning in a week won't help changing their equipment from zero change to significant of change.
  
 it'll just change how their brain adjust to the sound. brain burn-in so to speak. it will sound better at the end of the week, not because burn-in but because the brain adapts to the sound.
  
 as for you, if you like high fidelity sound like most people that register here ofc you will hear differences between hd650 straight from a PC and from schiit stack.
 what i meant when i said "i think that's what you're experiencing right now. something definitely changes, just not as much as you previously expected." to them was, people have different standards and expectations on how significant a change are.
  
 i'm not saying there's little benefit to dac and amp. of course if you are into good reproduction of sound, the money spent on the DAC and amp will yields significant return on better reproduction of sound.
  
 But how significant a change people feel they experience is largely subjective.
 Probably what you (and i) consider large difference, would be considered non-existent by others.
  
 as for myself, using the magni 2 uber, there's a difference between PC to fiio e10 to magni 2 uber. also the more i pay attention to the details of the songs, the more i notice those differences.
 i couldn't write off my relatives opinion either when they said there's no difference between plugging in that grado direct to PC or through the magni 2 uber.
  
 even more blab than you. all's good. haha


----------



## money4me247

michael v said:


> Hmm. It's just weird because when I upgraded from the bravo audio v3 tube amp to the lyr 2 I heard a discernible difference. But going from the asus xonar stx soundcard to the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack I don't hear a difference at all. And somehow they all sound the same whether I plug the headphones straight into the computer, into the soundcard, or into the schiit stack.


 
 hey! I did the same upgrade path for amplifers: Bravo V3 into the Lyr 2!!!  and ya, the Lyr 2 was an noticeable improvement for my HE-560s. However, for some of my other headphones like the ATH-M50x and the HE-400s, it honestly was pretty much the same sound. If there were any sonic differences, they were too subtle for me to clearly identify.
  
 For the bifrost, the improvement in sound quality was noticeable on my HE-560. Haven't really been listening to my other headphones enough to do a comparison between no bifrost vs bifrost.
  
 That's why I personally believe that investing a really nice headphones is the most important first step before getting nice components.
  
 Not sure why it all sounds the all the same. If your soundcard doesn't output through your computer headphone jack, you should be able to tell a difference there at least. what kind of internal sound card does your computer have?
  
 And finally, I agree with what the poster above said. if you hear differences over time, it is more likely to be your brain adjusting to the sound rather than burn-in.


----------



## scizzro

michael v said:


> I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.


 






scary.. now I'm second-guessing upgrading my sound card to a bifrost


----------



## hifi nub

Any lyr 2 owners know what the trimpots are for that are on its board?
  
 I see two of them.


----------



## john57

it might be for the DC level offset  for the servo's would be my guess like on my LD VI+. In the past I find that Schiit is quite good in answering technical questions.


----------



## Rem0o

Yup, seems like bias adjustment or DC level.


----------



## BobFiggins

I have a question, I have a SPDIF connection for my motherboard, will this input into the Modi 2 Uber?
  
 If so, would this be a good cable to use for it?
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1419&seq=1&format=2


----------



## madwolfa

bobfiggins said:


> I have a question, I have a SPDIF connection for my motherboard, will this input into the Modi 2 Uber?
> 
> If so, would this be a good cable to use for it?
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1419&seq=1&format=2


 
  
 Yep, it would work.


----------



## hodgjy

bobfiggins said:


> If so, would this be a good cable to use for it?
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1419&seq=1&format=2


 
 I've used Monoprice optical cables for years in all kinds of devices, and they've been just fine. Make sure you get the shortest length possible and don't twist the cable or kink it at all.
  
 Optical is actually my preferred connection over coaxial and usb. I know all about the jitter, but I think it's more beneficial to remove the electrical connection between devices. Gound loop hums like to pop up in my apartment from time to time.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Alright, I had a nice neat plan for my audio plans until now, when I decided to get the Audeze LCD2, and now I'm wondering if I should skip Lyr2/Bifrost and try to go straight for Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for my end game setup. 
I'm also at a loss as to what I should get first, the Audeze, or the Schiit. I've already got my HiFiMAN HE-500, so I don't need to upgrade headphones immediately, but the Audeze are also going to take two years of saving up. $500 a year limit. 
Feh, all this effort for my music listening pleasure better be worth it in a decade.


----------



## hodgjy

pirakaphile said:


> Alright, I had a nice neat plan for my audio plans until now, when I decided to get the Audeze LCD2, and now I'm wondering if I should skip Lyr2/Bifrost and try to go straight for Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for my end game setup.
> I'm also at a loss as to what I should get first, the Audeze, or the Schiit. I've already got my HiFiMAN HE-500, so I don't need to upgrade headphones immediately, but the Audeze are also going to take two years of saving up. $500 a year limit.
> Feh, all this effort for my music listening pleasure better be worth it in a decade.


 
  
 I say save your scratch and get the Lyr2/Bifrost. Put the money you saved into more music. Many people here think the LCD/Lyr/Bifrost is endgame.


----------



## madwolfa

pirakaphile said:


> Alright, I had a nice neat plan for my audio plans until now, when I decided to get the Audeze LCD2, and now I'm wondering if I should skip Lyr2/Bifrost and try to go straight for Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for my end game setup.
> I'm also at a loss as to what I should get first, the Audeze, or the Schiit. I've already got my HiFiMAN HE-500, so I don't need to upgrade headphones immediately, but the Audeze are also going to take two years of saving up. $500 a year limit.
> Feh, all this effort for my music listening pleasure better be worth it in a decade.


 
  
 Dunno, man. What don't you like about your current setup? Or is it just a simple case of upgraditis?
  
 EDIT: I also think that Lyr 2 / Bifrost would be sufficient for either HE-500 or LCD-2.


----------



## Pirakaphile

hodgjy said:


> I say save your scratch and get the Lyr2/Bifrost. Put the money you saved into more music. Many people here think the LCD/Lyr/Bifrost is endgame.



A bunch of my music comes from the public library, since the entire county's stash is at my disposal. That usually leaves me with about three to ten albums a year of of pocket, usually coming up to about $50 or so. Getting music isn't a big problem when you know lots of people who have tons of music collections themselves as well.  

I guess I'll do more research into what people say about balanced to see if the upgrade could be worth it. 



madwolfa said:


> Dunno, man. What don't you like about your current setup? Or is it just a simple case of upgraditis?
> 
> EDIT: I also think that Lyr 2 / Bifrost would be sufficient for either HE-500 or LCD-2.



I definitely have upgraditis, but I have no qualms about my current setup. I just know that there is better sound to be had, and if it's within my reach I want it! I also want the Audeze to compliment my HiFiMAN so I'll have a dark set for chillin, and a neutral set for more critical listening and classical music.


----------



## madwolfa

pirakaphile said:


> I guess I'll do more research into what people say about balanced to see if the upgrade could be worth it.
> I definitely have upgraditis, but I have no qualms about my current setup. I just know that there is better sound to be had, and if it's within my reach I want it! I also want the Audeze to compliment my HiFiMAN so I'll have a dark set for chillin, and a neutral set for more critical listening and classical music.


 
  
 Yep, I'd say - save your money and get yourself a Bifrost / Lyr 2. Just have in mind, that LCD-2 with Fazor is not nearly as dark as it used to be. Honestly I couldn't tell much difference between HE-500 and my LCD-2F on our last meet. You could still get it and decide what you like best.. you could always either return Audeze or sell off your HE-500 later on.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Seems like a pretty solid plan, and since it'll save me $1,500, I might even try and get into the speaker world. :3

Also, would you still say the Audeze outperforms the HiFiMAN in pretty much every way?

And, dog, you live in Olathe? Why haven't we munched on toast together or something? I don't have anyone in all of Kansas who appreciates audio in any form!


----------



## madwolfa

pirakaphile said:


> Seems like a pretty solid plan, and since it'll save me $1,500, I might even try and get into the speaker world. :3
> 
> Also, would you still say the Audeze outperforms the HiFiMAN in pretty much every way?
> 
> And, dog, you live in Olathe? Why haven't we munched on toast together or something? I don't have anyone in all of Kansas who appreciates audio in any form!


 
  
 At least the sound signature was pretty much the same. And comfort-wise, I think, LCD-2 wins solidly. Unfortunately it was a bit hectic and noisy to get down to nuances.
  
 Yeah, Olathe. We actually had a meet in Lawrence just few months ago! You must've missed it.  We could get together some day and I could give you a good listen of my LCD-2s. Send me a PM.


----------



## Pirakaphile

madwolfa said:


> At least the sound signature was pretty much the same. And comfort-wise, I think, LCD-2 wins solidly. Unfortunately it was a bit hectic and noisy to get down to nuances.
> 
> Yeah, Olathe. We actually had a meet in Lawrence just few months ago! You must've missed it.  We could actually get together some day and I could give you a good listen of my LCD-2s.



Well FECK. At least I know there are others now, I'm not alone! I could also bring my cans too, so you could get a better representation of the HE-500. I just have to get cables that don't sound like a slinky up to your ear, better pads, and maybe I'll have done the fuzzor and grill mod, so they'll be at their full potential.


----------



## TK277

My Schiit Mjo/Gungnir combo is my go-to. One day I'll finance the 'Rok and Yggy. But I'm super happy with the Mjo/Gungir combo even after auditioning the 'Rok paired with my Gungnir at a few meets. I'll probably replace the fuses in my combo with Synergistic Research reds as my next upgrade.
  
 Does anyone use different power cables with their Schiit? Experimenting with a few combinations right now. Copper wires with various connectors plugged into Acme Audio and Oyaide receptacles.


----------



## scizzro

michael v said:


> I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.


 
 Any updates on this yet? Biting my nails here


----------



## RRod

scizzro said:


> Any updates on this yet? Biting my nails here


 
  
 Isn't surprising. I'm about to sell off my Bifrost and V200 and go with my PC line-out and Magni for my HD800s, based on such testing as well.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rrod said:


> Isn't surprising. I'm about to sell off my Bifrost and V200 and go with my PC line-out and Magni for my HD800s, based on such testing as well.


 
 I was just about to flip my schiit when you said HD800, but I see you've included the Magni still. No computer headphone out could ever possibly drive the HD800 to its potential. If you really want those cans to sing, I've heard that the best things for em are tube amps. Gives the HD800 a much more musical side from what I can get from reading gazillions of impressions.


----------



## RRod

pirakaphile said:


> I was just about to flip my schiit when you said HD800, but I see you've included the Magni still. No computer headphone out could ever possibly drive the HD800 to its potential. If you really want those cans to sing, I've heard that the best things for em are tube amps. Gives the HD800 a much more musical side from what I can get from reading gazillions of impressions.


 
  
 They sound plenty fine on all SS amps I've tried them on. Tubes add harmonics so of course they can warm the tone, but then you aren't hearing exactly what's there, and hearing what's there is why I love the 800s. Especially in games, they're almost too realistic…


----------



## mkozlows

scizzro said:


> Any updates on this yet? Biting my nails here


 
  
 Why are you biting your nails from this one person's impression? There are tons and tons of people who will tell you (often with blind testing to back it up) that there are no differences. There are also tons and tons of people who will tell you that the difference is "night and day" and leads to emotion mega-blasts or whatever.
  
 If you haven't already decided that one (or both) of these groups is full of it, why would this one person's testimony convince you?


----------



## JohnBal

rrod said:


> They sound plenty fine on all SS amps I've tried them on. Tubes add harmonics so of course they can warm the tone, but then you aren't hearing exactly what's there, and hearing what's there is why I love the 800s. Especially in games, they're almost too realistic…


 
 Ummm.... That will depend on the tube amp.


----------



## RRod

johnbal said:


> Ummm.... That will depend on the tube amp.


 
  
 Well, the more you make a tube amp have the characteristics of a good SS (low distortion, low output impedance), the more you might as well get a SS, no?


----------



## JohnBal

rrod said:


> Well, the more you make a tube amp have the characteristics of a good SS (low distortion, low output impedance), the more you might as well get a SS, no?


 
 You could make a case for that, sure. There are also overly warm and mushy sounding soild state amps. The lines are blurring between the sounds of tube and solid state amps. But with a tube amp, often times the sound can be tweaked buy tube rolling to flavor to suit your taste. I just dont think people should generalize the sound of tube amps with overly warm and colored sound. It simply is not true in every case.


----------



## RRod

johnbal said:


> You could make a case for that, sure. There are also overly warm and mushy sounding soild state amps. The lines are blurring between the sounds of tube and solid state amps. But with a tube amp, often times the sound can be tweaked buy tube rolling to flavor to suit your taste. I just dont think people should generalize the sound of tube amps with overly warm and colored sound. It simply is not true in every case.


 
  
 Agreed, that's why I said "can warm the sound" and not "necessarily warm the sound". Still, I don't think people go tubes to decrease warmth.


----------



## money4me247

scizzro said:


> michael v said:
> 
> 
> > I've been doing some A/B testing between plugging my headphones hd 650s straight into my computer and plugging it into the bifrost uber/lyr 2 stack and I'm literally not hearing any differences in sound quality at all.
> ...


 
  
 I'm honestly a bit surprised that there is no difference for the hd650s. The Sennheiser hd600/hd650 are supposed to scale up very well with nicer components. Though my HE-400 is supposed to be comparable sound quality-wise to the HD650, and I do personally feel like the sonic improvements with any dac in general is not really worth the cost for my HE-400.
  
 From my personal experience, sonic improvements of extra components are quite subtle regardless (compared to upgrading headphones). Often times, more expensive does not always equate to something that you prefer more. More along the lines of different flavors/subtle tuning of the sound signature, though sometimes you can tell that one is more technically capable from micro-detail or imaging.
  
@scizzro, for you specifically, I personally feel like that $500ish dac may be a bit overkill for your headphone collection of mid-fi $300 headphones especially since you already have a nice sound card. I always like to allocate most of my budget into headphones as they make the largest impact on sound quality.
  
 Regardless, people here have a variety of different opinions & feelings on these subjects. Trust your own ears & let us know what you think!


----------



## Michael V

scizzro said:


> Any updates on this yet? Biting my nails here


 
  
 Give me a few more days. I've been burning everything in and have been trying to listen to them about 10 hours a day. Been wearing the 650s on in my sleep as well lol. Trying to get as familiar as I can with the sound of this setup before I compare it back to the xonar and to the desktop.
  


money4me247 said:


> I'm honestly a bit surprised that there is no difference for the hd650s. The Sennheiser hd600/hd650 are supposed to scale up very well with nicer components. Though my HE-400 is supposed to be comparable sound quality-wise to the HD650, and I do personally feel like the sonic improvements with any dac in general is not really worth the cost for my HE-400.
> 
> From my personal experience, sonic improvements of extra components are quite subtle regardless (compared to upgrading headphones). Often times, more expensive does not always equate to something that you prefer more. More along the lines of different flavors/subtle tuning of the sound signature, though sometimes you can tell that one is more technically capable from micro-detail or imaging.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Honestly I was thinking, if I just returned the schiit stack and the hd 650s I could afford a used hd 800 with some money left over. My xonar sound card would be able to drive them somewhat alright.


----------



## money4me247

michael v said:


> Give me a few more days. I've been burning everything in and have been trying to listen to them about 10 hours a day. Been wearing the 650s on in my sleep as well lol. Trying to get as familiar as I can with the sound of this setup before I compare it back to the xonar and to the desktop.
> 
> Honestly I was thinking, if I just returned the schiit stack and the hd 650s I could afford a used hd 800 with some money left over. My xonar sound card would be able to drive them somewhat alright.


 
  
 I always think that kinda option is always the best. I feel like you want to start with a TOTL pair of headphones before you start investing in higher end amplifiers & dacs, but that's just a personal opinion.
  
 will enjoy hearing your final thoughts on this matter after some time.


----------



## StanD

alex mikhailov said:


> Picked amplifier for my Beyerdynamic DT880PRO 250ohm. Enough Vali , or buy Asgard 2, and close the topic?
> P/S/ Began a correspondence with the SCHIIT. They ship for free, or extra charge?


 
 I have both amps and highly recommend the Asgard 2.
 Free? Nothing is for free.


----------



## money4me247

alex mikhailov said:


> Picked amplifier for my Beyerdynamic DT880PRO 250ohm. Enough Vali , or buy Asgard 2, and close the topic?
> P/S/ Began a correspondence with the SCHIIT. They ship for free, or extra charge?


 
 Shipping is extra. However, some of their offerings are available on Amazon with free prime shipping. Some Amazon listing have extra shipping costs as well though.


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> Shipping is extra. However, some of their offerings are available on Amazon with free prime shipping. Some Amazon listing have extra shipping costs as well though.


 
 If you compare prices, even though Amazon Prime has free shipping, the unit price on Amazon is higher, plus if you are not a Prime memer, you would have to pay for that as well. Nothing is really free,


----------



## Spiral Out

The only advantage of ordering Schiit from Amazon is for prime members on prime eligible Schiit. You pay about $10 more on average but with prime you get guaranteed 2 day shipping free. Other than prime eligible stuff you are better off ordering from Schiit.


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> If you compare prices, even though Amazon Prime has free shipping, the unit price on Amazon is higher, plus if you are not a Prime memer, you would have to pay for that as well. Nothing is really free,


 
 Yes, I guess you are right that the Prime eligible items are $10 more, but from my experience shipping from Schiit is usually pricier than that. $16.47 shipping for the Bifrost & $15.96 shipping for the Lyr 2. Took about a week for them to be delivery. Prime has like 2 day shipping and a 30 refund policy without a restocking fee (vs the 15 day return policy at Schiit with a restocking fee).
  
 Usually, the total price would be cheaper from Amazon Prime & you can feel safer if you are unhappy with the product. Amazon provides free return shipping if your unit has issues. If you are unsure whether you will want to keep the item, it seems like Amazon is the better bet. If you are not a Prime member, there is no reason to purchase from Amazon besides their customer service and 30 return window.
  
 I did personally purchased all my items from Schiit directly just to show my support for them as they have lower margins from Amazon.


----------



## Billheiser

alex mikhailov said:


> I have a problem. In the winter I live in Thailand )  Here no one wants to send. Amazon does not want. And very high customs duties: ((


Enjoy Thailand. Get out to the beach while we are indoors getting pale and fussing with headphone amps. When you get back to your summer home, order some Schiit, they'll still be there. 
Problem solved.


----------



## jsiegel14072

alex mikhailov said:


> I have a problem. In the winter I live in Thailand )  Here no one wants to send. Amazon does not want. And very high customs duties: ((


 

 High enough for one of your Head-fi friends to leave their cold house to deliver it to you?  8 degrees today here!


----------



## derbigpr

Could anyone with experience with all the Schiits (Asgard 2, Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2), or at least two on them, paired with Beyerdynamic T1, describe their findings about the sound? I have Asgard 2 now, and while I find it sounds great with T1, I'd like to try a Lyr or Valhalla, however, I can't hear them before buying, also there's no return policy in Europe where I will buy them.  Which one would give the most holographic and 3D soundstage, and which would give the best bass response (most importantly sub bass, which I find a bit lacking on Asgard 2)?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## dL.

derbigpr said:


> Could anyone with experience with all the Schiits (Asgard 2, Lyr 2 and Valhalla 2), or at least two on them, paired with Beyerdynamic T1, describe their findings about the sound? I have Asgard 2 now, and while I find it sounds great with T1, I'd like to try a Lyr or Valhalla, however, I can't hear them before buying, also there's no return policy in Europe where I will buy them.  Which one would give the most holographic and 3D soundstage, and which would give the best bass response (most importantly sub bass, which I find a bit lacking on Asgard 2)?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I've compared the Lyr 2 with the Asgard 2 in the past and there is a substantial difference in the soundstage, depth and detail. I auditioned it with the Hifiman HE560 and the Sennheiser HD700 and 800. Because the Lyr 2 is a hybrid amp, the sound signature will be slightly warmer than your solid state Asgard. I do not have experience with the T1 so I guess someone else can share that finding for you.
  
 To conclude, I would say the most substantial difference is the soundstage. To me, it was a night-and-day difference and I noticed it within the first 10 seconds of the song.
  
 dL


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> If you compare prices, even though Amazon Prime has free shipping, the unit price on Amazon is higher, plus if you are not a Prime memer, you would have to pay for that as well. Nothing is really free,


 
  
  


money4me247 said:


> Yes, I guess you are right that the Prime eligible items are $10 more, but from my experience shipping from Schiit is usually pricier than that. $16.47 shipping for the Bifrost & $15.96 shipping for the Lyr 2. Took about a week for them to be delivery. Prime has like 2 day shipping and a 30 refund policy without a restocking fee (vs the 15 day return policy at Schiit with a restocking fee).
> 
> Usually, the total price would be cheaper from Amazon Prime & you can feel safer if you are unhappy with the product. Amazon provides free return shipping if your unit has issues. If you are unsure whether you will want to keep the item, it seems like Amazon is the better bet. If you are not a Prime member, there is no reason to purchase from Amazon besides their customer service and 30 return window.
> 
> I did personally purchased all my items from Schiit directly just to show my support for them as they have lower margins from Amazon.


 
 I happen to be a Prime member, but I buy all sorts of merchandise from Amazon, so it makes sense for  me. Recently I bought a 3D Blue Ray player from Amazon. Weeks later it went up in a puff of smoke. They didn't have a replacement in stock, so I opted for a return, The process was simple and the refund was given very quickly.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

spiral out said:


> You pay about $10 more on average but with prime you get guaranteed 2 day shipping free.


 
  
 Not $10 anymore. Too much abuse killed that.
  
 A rational breakdown of the pros and cons of ordering via Amazon:
  
 Pros: 
  
 Easier/simpler return policy (now fully baked into the price)
 Great if you have points or gift cards
 Could be overall a plus if you're a Prime member, based on cost-inclusive (there is no such thing as "free") 2-day shipping
  
 Cons:
  
 More expensive than buying direct
 May end up getting an Amazon repack, not new (they refuse to return everything to us--at our cost--despite us asking/demanding this several times)
 Not in our system (keep your receipt for warranty service)
  
 In some cases, ordering via Amazon may work out well. But if you're looking for the lowest price, it'll be on the site.
  
 All B-stock and closeout will be on the site too, starting next week.


----------



## MattTCG

Good to know. Thanks Jason...


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Love the service Schitt provides. I emailed Schitt about my Modi 2U wall wart making a very odd humming and I got an email back within 5 minutes from Jason letting me know they would ship me a new one. This is a truely great company. Definitely a future customer if i decide I ever need anything more than the Magni 2U and Modi 2U. Will definitely point people towards them in the future. Can't beat the price for what you get.


----------



## rovopio

^
  
 thanks for sharing the experience thedragonguy...
  
 considering i had to pay exorbitant taxes to get my magni 2 uber, i hope in the future when im buying another schiit goods, my luck is still good and it will work properly from the start like the magni 2 uber im using right now...
  
 it would suck for me to pay 50% taxes twice, if fingers crossed, the first unit has some major issues...
  
 the country i live in doesn't recognize secondhand or replacement goods import as far as i know. i think even review sample is taxed. i might be wrong.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Don't really have those problems here in the USA. Both the Modi and Magni Uber work fine. It was just a faulty wall wart which isn't made by them so I can't really fault them. It figures the one part made in China would fail. Schitt quality seems pretty darn good just on my first day of use with it. I am impressed.


----------



## Spiral Out

jason stoddard said:


> Not $10 anymore. Too much abuse killed that.
> 
> 
> In some cases, ordering via Amazon may work out well. But if you're looking for the lowest price, it'll be on the site.


 

 I ordered my Vali from Amazon at the beginning of the last year. This past month, I ordered my Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber directly from Schiit. Schiit shipped the Magni 2 Uber the very morning I ordered it. The Modi 2 took a week or so but was in production when I placed my order.  Schiit actually did much better than the 10-15 business days wait that was initially quoted, shipping the Modi 2U in 5 business days.
  
 I am an Amazon prime member primarily for the quick, guaranteed 2 day shipping that Amazon provides as well as access to many different types of products. I find prime more than pays for itself in the long run. That being said my recent experience with Schiit as far as their shipping speed and my overall overwhelming satisfaction with their products prompts me to make all my future purchases of Schiit products directly from Schiit.


----------



## rovopio

thedragonguy said:


> Don't really have those problems here in the USA. Both the Modi and Magni Uber work fine. It was just a faulty wall wart which isn't made by them so I can't really fault them. It figures the one part made in China would fail. Schitt quality seems pretty darn good just on my first day of use with it. I am impressed.


 
  
 mine works completely fine. hope my subsequent purchases also works fine from the get-go.
  
 i really don't want to give customs another unwarranted money after the questionable tax i just paid for dt880...
 item price : $195, invoice from the shop $195, "official assessment" $450.
 so tax becomes 45% of $450 + freight + insurance.
  
 but that's neither here nor there. my dt880 arrived yeay. im using magni with ma-900 now though.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Why in the world was it assessed so high and why such a high rate? That's outrageous. If they tried to do that to us in the US we would probably have a revolution.


----------



## rovopio

thedragonguy said:


> Why in the world was it assessed so high and why such a high rate? That's outrageous. If they tried to do that to us in the US we would probably have a revolution.


 
  
 the tax officer doesn't trust the amount and suspect an indication of undervaluation of the item.
  
 how many legit business accepts undervaluing invoices seriously. one two men operation maybe, but legit businesses with employees, i doubt many do that. so unless i got my stuff from ebay, i shouldn't have get "official assessment".
  
 this is the third time. i think if it happens again, i will sort it out by making an official complaint. it's just a pain in the butt to do that.
  
 i tried dt880 with magni 2 uber around 2 hours ago. no issue and can power it just fine, and the volume pot is not super low so everything's nice and centered. im using ma-900 now because it's just easier to use that to watch youtube...
  
 ant-man trailer everybody


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thedragonguy said:


> Why in the world was it assessed so high and why such a high rate? That's outrageous. If they tried to do that to us in the US we would probably have a revolution.


 

 Actually, we did


----------



## TheDragonGuy

wildcatsare1 said:


> Actually, we did :wink_face:



I get what you mean but that was also kind of a diff situation since we were already trying to be free in the new world. Its different when your own enacted government goes that far. I think its crazy places charge people so much just to buy goods. Its almost like they don't want commerce and a healthy economy.


----------



## derbigpr

dl. said:


> I've compared the Lyr 2 with the Asgard 2 in the past and there is a substantial difference in the soundstage, depth and detail. I auditioned it with the Hifiman HE560 and the Sennheiser HD700 and 800. Because the Lyr 2 is a hybrid amp, the sound signature will be slightly warmer than your solid state Asgard. I do not have experience with the T1 so I guess someone else can share that finding for you.
> 
> To conclude, I would say the most substantial difference is the soundstage. To me, it was a night-and-day difference and I noticed it within the first 10 seconds of the song.
> 
> dL





Thanks, so I assume it would be a good combo with T1, although looking at specs Valhalla should be the one for high impedance beyers. How would you compare the wa7 to either schiit?


----------



## rovopio

thedragonguy said:


> I get what you mean but that was also kind of a diff situation since we were already trying to be free in the new world. Its different when your own enacted government goes that far. I think its crazy places charge people so much just to buy goods. Its almost like they don't want commerce and a healthy economy.


 
  
 no they dont want commerce and healthy economoy.
  
 the micro example is i can buy stuff from the US using third party forwarding / concierge service. they ask you 15-20% of item price, plus shipping, and charge your item not by tax percentage but per weight.
  
 and it's delivered to your door instead of having to go to the post office / customs office to pay. (why can't i pay at home is still baffling to me).
  
 sometime i feel as if the people in charge wants average person to just use this third party forwarding service instead of properly paying for the tax.
 i don't mind the paying the tax part (well 45% is steep), but more than that. i hate the "official assessment" thing.
  
 why the culture is so suspicious with each other that a cheaply priced item must be "undervalued or under-declared"
  
 are you kidding me?
  
 sorry i dont have any schiit-related comment at all on this post. im still irritated with the official assessment since i just got the dt880 last night


----------



## TheDragonGuy

That whole assessment and tax bit seems a bit schitty to me. I feel  bad for anyone who has to deal with their governments flushing their money and time down the toilet with unnecessary taxes, fees, and hassle.


----------



## rovopio

thedragonguy said:


> That whole assessment and tax bit seems a bit schitty to me. I feel  bad for anyone who has to deal with their governments flushing their money and time down the toilet with unnecessary taxes, fees, and hassle.


 
  
 i read a post a couple pages ago regarding somebody having to spend the winter in thailand so couldnt buy the schiit due to taxes.
  
 and schiit new chapter on their book / story / inside glimpse thread mentioned something about malaysia.
  
 that's asia for you... other than japan korea and singapore, random BS stuff happens a lot.


----------



## TheDragonGuy

That's too bad. Hopefully sooner than later those other countries realize it makes more sense to get taxes by allowing its citizens to spend more of their own money and thus bring in more overall tax revenue.


----------



## rovopio

thedragonguy said:


> That's too bad. Hopefully sooner than later those other countries realize it makes more sense to get taxes by allowing its citizens to spend more of their own money and thus bring in more overall tax revenue.


 


 well, it hasn't changed since i was in puberty. which was more than 15 years ago. so i doubt it will change soon. but thanks anyway.
  
 the worst thing is dvd and blu-ray taxes are per minutes and not per price value. $12 per minute or something, i might be wrong. so a The X-Files complete boxset will have a $100,000 tax
  
 im not joking either, i tried buying some series dvd. i just told them to destroy it after i heard that.
  
 so in terms of absurdity, there's clouds above the cloud, or however the saying goes.
  
 on magni 2 uber, im fairly satisfied with magni 2 uber, and my dissatisfaction is that i should've get SYS and wyrd at the same time at that time.
  
 clicking tracking details three times a day is unhealthy when the wait times is 3 weeks...


----------



## TheDragonGuy

rovopio said:
			
		

> the worst thing is dvd and blu-ray taxes are per minutes and not per price value. $12 per minute or something, i might be wrong. so a The X-Files complete boxset will have a $100,000 tax
> 
> im not joking either, i tried buying some series dvd. i just told them to destroy it after i heard that.


 
 OMG that's crazy.  I feel for you. Glad you are able to get Schitt for less than that.


----------



## rovopio

thedragonguy said:


> OMG that's crazy.  I feel for you. Glad you are able to get Schitt for less than that.


 
  
 that's the official regulation. the officials lumped DVD and Blu-ray the same category with importing film rolls. as in movie theater film rolls.
  
 i thought there's already a H.S. code for dvd and blu-ray, i dont know. it's absurd.
  
 btw, how hot is your magni 2 uber? mine's not hot at all. comfortably warm...


----------



## TheDragonGuy

Yea it gets warm but that's it. Nice to the touch. Not too hot at all.


----------



## jeremy205100

rovopio said:


> that's the official regulation. the officials lumped DVD and Blu-ray the same category with importing film rolls. as in movie theater film rolls.
> 
> i thought there's already a H.S. code for dvd and blu-ray, i dont know. it's absurd.
> 
> btw, how hot is your magni 2 uber? mine's not hot at all. comfortably warm...


 

 Just out of curiousity, if you are comfortable saying, what country are you in?


----------



## DangerToast

rovopio said:


> btw, how hot is your magni 2 uber? mine's not hot at all. comfortably warm...




People have always exaggerated how hot Schiit amps run. I owned the original magni and now the Asgard 2. Neither gets very hot - the Asgard 2 gets warm but never to the point that it's uncomfortable to touch. A friend of mine owns the Valhalla and that doesn't get hot either.

Also, a couple pages back people were comparing xonar products and schiit DACs. I've been using a xonar DX for years but just purchased a modi 2 uber and will post a comparison if anyone wants. Love the xonar but don't love the interference that comes with using a sound card that's not sheilded and sandwiched between two giant graphics cards.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jason stoddard said:


> Not $10 anymore. Too much abuse killed that.
> 
> A rational breakdown of the pros and cons of ordering via Amazon:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 god dammit Schiiit. Why must you conquer everything?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

thedragonguy said:


> I get what you mean but that was also kind of a diff situation since we were already trying to be free in the new world. Its different when your own enacted government goes that far. I think its crazy places charge people so much just to buy goods. Its almost like they don't want commerce and a healthy economy.




You are absolutely correct, no better way to stifle the middle classes buying power than to apply exhorbent VAT/use tax.


----------



## madwolfa

jeremy205100 said:


> Just out of curiousity, if you are comfortable saying, what country are you in?


 
  
 Sounds like North Korea.


----------



## Byronb

thedragonguy said:


> That whole assessment and tax bit seems a bit schitty to me. I feel  bad for anyone who has to deal with their governments flushing their money and time down the toilet with unnecessary taxes, fees, and hassle.


 
 Yeah that is the way I feel every payday!


----------



## jaywillin

jason stoddard said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 thanks jason, i've bought a lot of schiit, new and used, the new stuff , 
 some of the new stuff on amazon, but my last purchases have been direct, and i believe i'll keep it that way


----------



## freedom01

For running audio from laptop, is it necessary to get wyrd ?


----------



## jaywillin

freedom01 said:


> For running audio from laptop, is it necessary to get wyrd ?


 
 necessary ? i don't know, but i use one !


----------



## SpienerVince

Still waiting for my Schiit Fulla from Sonority Audio, the only official reseller in the Netherlands.


----------



## freedom01

jaywillin said:


> necessary ? i don't know, but i use one !


 

 Hmm , on your setup (with or without wyrd), can you feel(hear) anything different ?


----------



## jaywillin

freedom01 said:


> Hmm , on your setup (with or without wyrd), can you feel(hear) anything different ?


 
 haven't had it real long, the brief impression is yes, in the next day or two, i'll start doing more with/without comparisons
 but in what comparisons i've done, i think i heard enough difference to warrant keeping it
 i do have a modi2u coming, it will be here next week so it will be interesting to see other wyrd's effect, or not there


----------



## superjawes

freedom01 said:


> For running audio from laptop, is it necessary to get wyrd ?


Depends on the laptop. Wyrd is primarily a fix for Schiity USB ports.


----------



## DangerToast

Reading everything on this forum makes me feel spoiled because even though schiit is headquartered 3000 miles away from me, since we're both in the continental US I can order direct and get their products in no time with little shipping cost. Thank God, because I'm super impatient!


----------



## hifi nub

dangertoast said:


> Reading everything on this forum makes me feel spoiled because even though schiit is headquartered 3000 miles away from me, since we're both in the continental US I can order direct and get their products in no time with little shipping cost. Thank God, because I'm super impatient!


 
 Have you seen their shipping costs?
  
 For my zip
 20 for fedex 1-7days
 30 for usps 3-2 day priority
 the rest you can put your imagination to it.
  
 Don't know why usps is so expensive.
  
 I shipped off a big heavy box recently cost me 17 bucks thats with tracking and insurance.


----------



## DangerToast

hifi nub said:


> Have you seen their shipping costs?
> 
> For my zip
> 20 for fedex 1-7days
> ...


 
 Maybe because I live in New Jersey and am close to where fedex and ups have giant hubs that feed the northeast, I only paid $11.21 to have my modi2u shipped out. It shipped from cali on January 3rd and is scheduled to get here tomorrow. Not bad in my book.


----------



## hifi nub

dangertoast said:


> Maybe because I live in New Jersey and am close to where fedex and ups have giant hubs that feed the northeast, I only paid $11.21 to have my modi2u shipped out. It shipped from cali on January 3rd and is scheduled to get here tomorrow. Not bad in my book.


 
 I am even closer than you i think, I am in chicagoland. Doesn't make any sense. see.


----------



## scizzro

I'm wondering if this is intended: 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-04-Bifrost-Digital-Convertor/dp/B006YWRW36/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1420762202&sr=1-3&keywords=bifrost
  
 Standard Bifrost for $379 + $14.70 S&H, Sold and fulfilled by Schiit - not Prime eligible. So there is literally no reason to order it through Amazon, unless you are worried about the 3 returns per year limit.


----------



## new reformation

Has anyone here ever run a Valhalla 2's RCA output into a solid state amp like the magni?
  
 I have been playing around with this setup as it should allow me to more properly drive my low impedance headphones like my MS1000i's and HP50's. Am I making a serious error by running this set up, or have I essentially created a viable "hybrid" amp setup?  It's definitely sounding pretty great to me.


----------



## Billheiser

new reformation said:


> Has anyone here ever run a Valhalla 2's RCA output into a solid state amp like the magni?
> 
> I have been playing around with this setup as it should allow me to more properly drive my low impedance headphones like my MS1000i's and HP50's. Am I making a serious error by running this set up, or have I essentially created a viable "hybrid" amp setup?  It's definitely sounding pretty great to me.


 

 Well, good that it works for you.  It's redundant of course, but if you like it go ahead.  You are double-amping unnecessarily, and thus you are doubling whatever small amounts of distortion each amp has.  
 The Valhalla 2 has a low gain switch, so it drives low impedance headphones like yours very nicely.
  
 Your set-up does not create a hybrid amp.  I know what you mean and in a broad sense you can think of it that way - but really, technically, no.
  
 If you accidentally set the volume up on both, you might vaporize the amps and/or the headphones and/or your ears.


----------



## new reformation

I am definitely being careful with the volume. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I thought since the Valhalla 2 is functionally intended to serve as a preamp that this kind of set up would be more acceptable than doing something like running a 3.5mm to RCA from my phone HPO to the amp.  The low gain option does indeed sound good, but it has a substantially lower power output at 32ohms than my Magni does, so its not quite the best match.
  
 I know double amping is generally a bad thing to do...Mostly playing around with my gear while being careful. Still, it makes for an interesting overall effect.


----------



## Billheiser

new reformation said:


> I am definitely being careful with the volume.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well, the Valhalla 2 and the Magni are both preamps, essentially, made with power to drive headphones, and if they were to drive passive loudspeakers they would each equally need power amps.  So you're not getting any added function from using both at the same time.  If you run straight from your phone HPO then you can feed that into either.  And of course if you run stuff through an external DAC like Modi first, that feeds either Magni or Valhalla 2 perfectly.
  
 Although Valhalla 2 has lower output into 32 ohms than the Magni, it still has way more power than you would possibly need into your low impedance phones.  Like, breaking your eardrums loud.  I have Valhalla 2, and used to have Magni, and I definitely prefer the sound of the V, for any of my 'phones.  YMMV.


----------



## new reformation

Thanks Bill.  I always enjoy your thoughts as we have had some similar experiences in terms of headphone/amp history (HD6XX, iGrado, HE-300, NAD HP50, Valhalla 2 and Magni).
  
 Regardless of my tinkering, nothing else I have can touch the HD650's through the Valhalla 2.  Seriously FANTASTIC.
  
 BTW I was using the HPO illustration only, I am using a Modi to fee my amp. Do you think I would be able to appreciate the upgrade to the Bifrost Uber?


----------



## Billheiser

new reformation said:


> Thanks Bill.  I always enjoy your thoughts as we have had some similar experiences in terms of headphone/amp history (HD6XX, iGrado, HE-300, NAD HP50, Valhalla 2 and Magni).
> 
> Regardless of my tinkering, nothing else I have can touch the HD650's through the Valhalla 2.  Seriously FANTASTIC.
> 
> BTW I was using the HPO illustration only, I am using a Modi to fee my amp. Do you think I would be able to appreciate the upgrade to the Bifrost Uber?


 

 Cool, I didn't know we had so much gear in common.  You must be a true scholar and gentleman.
 I really don't know about the difference between Modi and Bifrost Uber, I've just had the latter.  I agree with many folks around here that of the headphone/amp/DAC troika, the DAC is relatively less important.  
 I am very happy w/ Bifrost.  The only separate DAC I had before was Musical Fidelity V-DAC, which was fine but Schiit was a worthwhile upgrade IMO.  Subtle differences but significant enough.


----------



## new reformation

Haha.  I appreciate the sentiment.  I am working on my MDIV at the moment,  but will be aspiring to both traits for the remainder of my days.
  
 Definitely wary of getting sucked into hype about DAC's.  A guy did a double blind test on the forum a while back between the Modi and the Bifrost and wasn't able to reliably tell them apart.  Ultimately, he said the Modi was tad drier.  My main goal was to have a really nice setup before I could no longer afford to obtain it (I.E. Before I get married...should the Lord allow.).  I think I am probably set, even if the Bifrost is a little better.


----------



## Billheiser

new reformation said:


> Haha.  I appreciate the sentiment.  I am working on my MDIV at the moment,  but will be aspiring to both traits for the remainder of my days.
> 
> Definitely wary of getting sucked into hype about DAC's.  A guy did a double blind test on the forum a while back between the Modi and the Bifrost and wasn't able to reliably tell them apart.  Ultimately, he said the Modi was tad drier.  My main goal was to have a really nice setup before I could no longer afford to obtain it (I.E. Before I get married...should the Lord allow.).  I think I am probably set, even if the Bifrost is a little better.


 

 Just a minute ago I read another thread that was posted by a pastor.  Must be contagious.  Good luck on the degree, and the life partner.  A wife is way, way better than even the Gungnir and Ragnarok.


----------



## BeatsWork

billheiser said:


> .  A wife is way, way better than even the Gungnir and Ragnarok.


 
  
 But not Ragnarock and Yggdrasil.


----------



## Billheiser

beatswork said:


> But not Ragnarock and Yggdrasil.


 

 ooh.  My wife is an older model; have not compared her directly yet against the Yggy.


----------



## BeatsWork

billheiser said:


> ooh.  My wife is an older model; have not compared her directly yet against the Yggy.


 
  
 They have a 30 day free trial before you have to commit ... just saying ...


----------



## freedom01

Hi mate. 

Same plan as you. I will be upgrading my current setup to bifrst uber and valhalla2. Planning to get married too. So have to cut down on spending. Definitely my last big purchase for a considerable time. 

In fact I have already ordered from schiit. The waiting game starts. Can't wait to match it with my beloved hd800.


----------



## Mattcye10

I don't own a Schiit product, but I've been keeping a close watch on Schiit Audio, particularly because of the "Schiit Happened" thread I've read and mainly because of its popularity on this site. Also, I'm looking out for potential future contenders for my first desktop amp/DAC, and Schiit is one of them. So it'll be interesting to see what this community has to say about their products.
Tl,dr: sub'ed for future reference.
One question though (rather new here): Are there such things as tiers in terms of price range and performance of audio products? If so, where do Schiit products stand?


----------



## tronco

> In some cases, ordering via Amazon may work out well. But if you're looking for the lowest price, it'll be on the site.
> All B-stock and closeout will be on the site too, starting next week.


 
  
 I have seen a similar development with hotel bookings. Many Hotels have now a policy that guarantees the lowest price on their own website. Not on booking.com, venere or something like that. You can still use one of the booking sites, but you won't get a better deal.
  
 As a customer this is what I expect. Why should something be cheaper elsewhere than buying directly from the producer? To me that makes no sense.
  
 I think too many companies haven't realized yet, that direct sales gives then a direct relationship with the customer. And that is worth a lot.


----------



## jaywillin

tronco said:


> I have seen a similar development with hotel bookings. Many Hotels have now a policy that guarantees the lowest price on their own website. Not on booking.com, venere or something like that. You can still use one of the booking sites, but you won't get a better deal.
> 
> As a customer this is what I expect. Why should something be cheaper elsewhere than buying directly from the producer? To me that makes no sense.
> 
> I think too many companies haven't realized yet, that direct sales gives then a direct relationship with the customer. And that is worth a lot.


 
 bringing up the hotel situation just put it all in perspective fore me, the light bulb went off so to speak.
 i've worked in a hotel, and third party bookings were very much a mixed bag.
 on the one hand, we filled rooms that otherwise might not have been sold,
 on the other, if something went wrong, we couldn't make refunds, change room types, etc.
 we'd tell customers they'd get better overall service if they called the hotel's 1-800 number, or better yet, the hotel directly
 we'd give them a cheaper deal than william shatner !
 so, the same applies for internet sales of the gear we buy. i think it probably the best thing to buy directly from the company itself
 than some third party, just to get a few dollars off, or just a few extra days to be able to return the item


----------



## money4me247

mattcye10 said:


> I don't own a Schiit product, but I've been keeping a close watch on Schiit Audio, particularly because of the "Schiit Happened" thread I've read and mainly because of its popularity on this site. Also, I'm looking out for potential future contenders for my first desktop amp/DAC, and Schiit is one of them. So it'll be interesting to see what this community has to say about their products.
> Tl,dr: sub'ed for future reference.
> One question though (rather new here): Are there such things as tiers in terms of price range and performance of audio products? If so, where do Schiit products stand?


 
  
 They have the entry-level: Magni & Modi combo, then the mid-fi: Lyr & Bifrost, and finally the end-game type stuff: balanced Mjolnir & Gungnir combo, and statement flagship Ragnarok & upcoming Yggdrasil.
  
 The Vali (hybrid tube), Asgard 2 (SS), and Valhalla 2 (OTL tube) are like entry-level/mid-fi.
  
 Their products are supposed to be very competitive per price bracket (though of course, you can find alternatives at better price points). Just depends exactly what you want.
  
 Edit: I've only owned the Lyr 2 & Bifrost Uber w/ USB2. The alternatives I was looking at included the Garage1217 Project Ember or Audio-Gd combo amp/dacs.


----------



## rovopio

anybody own hd600 or hd650 with schiit magni?
  
 how does it sound?
 does it pair in a good way?
  
 lots of people saying to drive hd650 to sound good, at least it needs bottlehead crack. how does magni fare with hd600/650?


----------



## Zojokkeli

rovopio said:


> anybody own hd600 or hd650 with schiit magni?
> 
> how does it sound?
> does it pair in a good way?
> ...


 
  
 Both Vali and Asgard 2 sound good with HD 650. I'm assuming Magni sounds similar to A2 so it should be good. BH Crack should be on end game level with HD650's, or at least that's what I've been told.


----------



## rovopio

zojokkeli said:


> Both Vali and Asgard 2 sound good with HD 650. I'm assuming Magni sounds similar to A2 so it should be good. BH Crack should be on end game level with HD650's, or at least that's what I've been told.


 
  
 thanks mate!
  
 im thinking of getting hd600 or hd650 next, but i really dont want to buy another amp than the magni 2 uber i have right now. im wondering how does a solid state amp paired with both hd600/650...


----------



## superjawes

I have the HD600, and Magni sounded good, Magni 2 Uber is better, and I still think that my Valhalla is just a bit better than that.


----------



## kothganesh

zojokkeli said:


> .................... BH Crack should be on end game level with HD650's


 
 Can confirm that...


----------



## goozy

Just tried my Magni with a pair of small bookshelf speakers. Not too bad in a small space!


----------



## Zojokkeli

I was considering getting the Emotiva Control Freak to control the volume of my powered speakers, but as the shipping rates of their company of choice are beyond ridiculous (total cost would end up being around 120€) I'm looking at SYS now. I only have one question. How long cables can the SYS comfortably feed? Will RCA cable of 1 or 1,5 meter length do fine?


----------



## Xdaggersoul

zojokkeli said:


> I was considering getting the Emotiva Control Freak to control the volume of my powered speakers, but as the shipping rates of their company of choice are beyond ridiculous (total cost would end up being around 120€) I'm looking at SYS now. I only have one question. How long cables can the SYS comfortably feed? Will RCA cable of 1 or 1,5 meter length do fine?


 
 Yeap, the length u are looking at should be fine.


----------



## StanD

zojokkeli said:


> I was considering getting the Emotiva Control Freak to control the volume of my powered speakers, but as the shipping rates of their company of choice are beyond ridiculous (total cost would end up being around 120€) I'm looking at SYS now. I only have one question. How long cables can the SYS comfortably feed? Will RCA cable of 1 or 1,5 meter length do fine?


 
 The SYS is passive it does not drive the target. The question is, can your source drive the cable to the SYS and from the SYS to the target (+ a negligible factor from the SYS). Consider the SYS as a middleman that doesn't really take from you.


----------



## Zojokkeli

xdaggersoul said:


> Yeap, the length u are looking at should be fine.


 
  
 Great, thanks!


----------



## Zojokkeli

stand said:


> The SYS is passive it does not drive the target. The question is, can your source drive the cable to the SYS and from the SYS to the target (+ a negligible factor from the SYS). Consider the SYS as a middleman that doesn't really take from you.


 
  
 Didn't consider it that way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think Bifrost shouldn't have any problem with that.


----------



## StanD

zojokkeli said:


> Didn't consider it that way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Bifrost has a 75 Ohm output impedance and should be able to drive more than many of us realize. I use it with a Y cable to simultaneously connect to two amps. Works great, I compared this to without the Y, no differences.


----------



## Zojokkeli

stand said:


> The Bifrost has a 75 Ohm output impedance and should be able to drive more than many of us realize. I use it with a Y cable to simultaneously connect to two amps. Works great, I compared this to without the Y, no differences.


 
  
 I'm also getting RCA-splitters to divide the signal between the monitors and headphone setup. Was thinking about getting Gungnir for the extra outputs and such, but honestly Uberfrost is such a great DAC I don't think I'll need anything better.


----------



## StanD

zojokkeli said:


> I'm also getting RCA-splitters to divide the signal between the monitors and headphone setup. Was thinking about getting Gungnir for the extra outputs and such, but honestly Uberfrost is such a great DAC I don't think I'll need anything better.


 
 The Bifrost is just fine, unless you need to go balanced.


----------



## rovopio

vali vs little dot mk2...
  
 which one is a nicer tube amp?
 or bravo audio ocean amp perhaps?
  
 i think i'd like to try my new dt880 with tube...


----------



## Shunrei

Anyway, i couldn't seem to find input impedance of this Ortofon Mhd-q and since sometimes i use this amp with Bifrost, i could seem detect clipping with my Ocharaku Donguri-raku, does my amp has lower output impedance or i'm missing the ratio here?


----------



## SuperU

Today, I got my Schiit. Thanks again for your help, Alex.
  
 I got my Bifrost (Uber and USB) and Asgard 2 along with Wyrd. And it's all hooked up and working great.
  
 I've spent about 3 hours listening to music and can't believe all I was missing before. 
  
 The amp powers my Mad Dog Pro's very well. 
  
 Based on this initial listening, it is everything I had hoped for and more. I need more time with them to get to know the capabilities. But this is awesome.
  
 Curious about something. The Asgard 2 drives my cans really well with the switch down in the lower power mode. In that mode, I turn up the volume to around 3 o'clock or so. In the high power mode, I have to turn it down around 11 or 12 oclock. 
  
 What is the best position for the switch? More power and turn down the volume or less power and turn it up?
  
 One thing I will say is that Asgard 2 does run hot. So the reports are true.


----------



## madwolfa

superu said:


> Curious about something. The Asgard 2 drives my cans really well with the switch down in the lower power mode. In that mode, I turn up the volume to around 3 o'clock or so. In the high power mode, I have to turn it down around 11 or 12 oclock.
> 
> What is the best position for the switch? More power and turn down the volume or less power and turn it up?


 
  
 High gain looks to be more optimal for your cans. 11-12 o'clock is a good position, 3 is a bit much.


----------



## SuperU

madwolfa said:


> High gain looks to be more optimal for your cans. 11-12 o'clock is a good position, 3 is a bit much.


 
 Thanks madwolfa. 
  
 Jamming out to some Testament right now. And with gain on high at a bit less than 11 oclock it's damn near blowing my ears off - wonderously so I might add. 
  
 Wow - this stack/HP combo is amazing.


----------



## wahsmoh

superu said:


> Today, I got my Schiit. Thanks again for your help, Alex.
> 
> I got my Bifrost (Uber and USB) and Asgard 2 along with Wyrd. And it's all hooked up and working great.
> 
> ...


 

 High gains mode with the planars. I think you get more bass on high gain than low gain. I told you this combo is an amazing match 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 very natural and not a hint of unnecessary edge


----------



## StanD

wahsmoh said:


> High gains mode with the planars. I think you get more bass on high gain than low gain. I told you this combo is an amazing match
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The gain switch doesn't change the FR. The bass should be percieved to be the same at equal volumes.


----------



## wahsmoh

stand said:


> The gain switch doesn't change the FR. The bass should be percieved to be the same at equal volumes.


 
 I just tried switching between gains. I still think they sound better on high gain mode even after being volume matched. I'd need to blind test in order to really figure it out better


----------



## rovopio

wahsmoh said:


> I just tried switching between gains. I still think they sound better on high gain mode even after being volume matched. I'd need to blind test in order to really figure it out better


 
  
 isnt it just the illusion of it being loud?
 not the same but,, when i high gain my fiio e10k it sounds better as well. even after i turn down the e10k volume pot.
 i dont have mad dogs so... maybe mad dogs need the power provided by the high gain and you're probably right....?
  
 btw have you ever tried tube amp with your dt880?


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> i dont have mad dogs so... maybe mad dogs need the power provided by the high gain and you're probably right....?


 
  
 If he was using them with volume pot at 3 am, that means it almost topped out the voltage provided by the low gain - not optimal.
  
 They don't seem to be very efficient cans.


----------



## wahsmoh

rovopio said:


> isnt it just the illusion of it being loud?
> not the same but,, when i high gain my fiio e10k it sounds better as well. even after i turn down the e10k volume pot.
> i dont have mad dogs so... maybe mad dogs need the power provided by the high gain and you're probably right....?
> 
> btw have you ever tried tube amp with your dt880?


 

 I own Alpha Dogs which are very close to Mad Dogs. It could be that the planar drivers are very power hungry and the bass gets to a more exciting level when on high gain mode versus low gain.
  
 Sadly I have not. I've heard that a good tube amp can sweeten up the mids on the DT880's and lower some of the treble sparkle. The DT880s are more or less neutral though with extra treble sparkle.
  
 Alpha Dogs are more detailed and have better transient response without sounding "etched" in the upper frequencies and lower mids. Bass is also much fuller than the DT880.


----------



## StanD

wahsmoh said:


> I just tried switching between gains. I still think they sound better on high gain mode even after being volume matched. I'd need to blind test in order to really figure it out better


 
 The problem of gain matching by turning the volume each time after flipping the switch is that there is a delay in perception and that judgement is subjective.
 If you were comparing amps with an A/B switch you could flip back and forth rapidly to get a match. Not so in this case.


----------



## scizzro

rrod said:


> Isn't surprising. I'm about to sell off my Bifrost and V200 and go with my PC line-out and Magni for my HD800s, based on such testing as well.


 

 When I first read this... Honestly, I thought you were crazy. I thought there was no way in hell those two setups could compare to one another.
  
 So I got out my soldering iron, ordered some parts, and made an amp switch. It lets me switch the output of two amps into a single pair of headphones instantly. I just finished building it today. I call it the ugly box, because it looks like ... well, schiit.
  
 So I fired it up, plugged it into my Lyr 2 and my gen 1 Magni. I was shocked. I've only spent about 20 minutes with it, but I can tell absolutely *no* difference between the two amps. I just can't. I don't know if it's the headphones I'm using (HE-400 / HD600), my ears suck, or there's some other factor at play... Of course this isn't a scientific test, I just wanted to test my own ears and equipment.
  
 I want some more time with it, but my initial impression has left me in a state of epiphany.


----------



## madwolfa

Given that both Magni and Lyr 2 are transparent amps with flat FR and THD in <0.01s .. I'm not really surprised. Lyr has more power, that's it. It shouldn't sound any different. But there's always a pair of "golden ears" who would claim otherwise and "you're doing it wrong".


----------



## RRod

scizzro said:


> When I first read this... Honestly, I thought you were crazy. I thought there was no way in hell those two setups could compare to one another.
> 
> So I got out my soldering iron, ordered some parts, and made an amp switch. It lets me switch the output of two amps into a single pair of headphones instantly. I just finished building it today. I call it the ugly box, because it looks like ... well, schiit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wish I could throw together a switch box, however it looked! And yes, testing that is done earnestly, even if not exactly scientifically, is always worthwhile for self-discovery. As madwolfa said, there is little scientific reason why these amps should sound differently, nor any amp who aims for transparency. Deliberately non-transparent amps of course can change the sound, but so does EQ, which can do it more adjustably and without an extra umpteen $$.


----------



## StanD

scizzro said:


> When I first read this... Honestly, I thought you were crazy. I thought there was no way in hell those two setups could compare to one another.
> 
> So I got out my soldering iron, ordered some parts, and made an amp switch. It lets me switch the output of two amps into a single pair of headphones instantly. I just finished building it today. I call it the ugly box, because it looks like ... well, schiit.
> 
> ...


 
 When I compared the Magni to the Asgard 2 to dispell the ongoing myth of Magni brightness, I got the royal treatment. I put together an A/B switch and many people still gave me the cold shoulder. I'd call a proper A/B switch comparison, "Reaility Orientation." IMO some folks hear what they want to, other hear what they're told to and others might even say they heard what others told them. Good thing I wear fireproof pants.


----------



## SuperU

wahsmoh said:


> High gains mode with the planars. I think you get more bass on high gain than low gain. I told you this combo is an amazing match
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Incredible sound that's for sure. I'm loving this set up.
  
 And another thing. I have the computer going to the Wyrd and then to Uberfrost then Asgard 2 - and when  nothing is playing it is absolutely quiet. I hear nothing until the music starts.
  
 This was indeed a great purchase. And it all drives my Mad Dog Pro's amazingly. Before my Schiit came, I was listen to the MDP on an external sound card. The Schiit stack caused the headphones to sound completely different - the sound stage expanded like crazy and so much more. 
  
 By the way, I did switch it to high gain, but can not hear a difference in bass if I adjust the volume so it sounds the same on both settings. Either way it sounds great. No noise either at 3 - 4 oclock on the low gain setting. Just pure, wonderful music.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> When I compared the Magni to the Asgard 2 to dispell the ongoing myth of Magni brightness, I got the royal treatment. I put together an A/B switch and many people still gave me the cold shoulder. I'd call a proper A/B switch comparison, "Reaility Orientation." IMO some folks hear what they want to, other hear what they're told to and others might even say they heard what others told them. Good thing I wear fireproof pants.


 
  
 This is what happen where i live brother.
  
 ohh, rule of thumbs you need to have an amp 3x the price of your headphone
 Schiit is utter **** for hd800.
 hd650 needs at the very least bottlehead crack.
  
 damn.
  
 i know there aren't many local headphone stores, only 4 or 5... but they could be a little more honest with their talks. also bad-mouthing the competitions. i dislike that. that's one reason i rather buy from amazon or direct.
  
 one website wrote "Other online stores doesn't publish their price list so they can play with prices. Our store is different. There is no playing with price on our stores"
  
 damn... that's a slight to another audio store that will have price-cut every so often when coincides with some days, like black friday, christmas, whatever other days you can think of. no smoking day or whatever.
  
 also, when the stores doesn't sell some headphones they'd badmouth other headphones. "as far as customers history goes, nothing ever sound good with beyerdynamic T70".
  
 aisshh... that's rough. just cuz you don't sell beyerdynamic products doesn't mean it's not good to some people... i happen to really like T70. i dont like it's price. haha.
  
 just sell what they have and point out the positive things about it. It's a business i get it, there's no need to tell the negative things if they don't want to. But i don't think telling lies are nice either. Like recommending rha ma750i for people seeking bright iems...
 Also personally im not into stores that point out some points of other stores collections just because they don't stock the other items.
  
 anyway, just like to emphasize people hear what they're told to are certainly true in my part of the world. particularly when the buyers largely doesn't understand the definition of sounds and the sellers are using sound glossaries to confuse them more and more.
  
 "oh okay i just buy whatever you think is good" happens a lot 'round here.


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> This is what happen where i live brother.
> 
> ohh, you need to have an amp 3x the price of your headphone (rule of thumb).
> Schiit is utter **** for hd800.
> ...


 
 Many stores give opinions based upon inventory and sales margins, truth be damned. I remember being on an audio store in NYC and listening to an HD800, this clerk knew her Schiit. Another customer comes in, a tone deaf Beats type. She shows him all the bass heavy junk with loud colors, he buys a pair of Beats. When he left, she laughed to me and said,"What!? You think I could teach him anything?"


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> Many stores give opinions based upon inventory and sales margins, truth be damned. I remember being on an audio store in NYC and listening to an HD800, this clerk knew her Schiit. Another customer comes in, a tone deaf Beats type. She shows him all the bass heavy junk with loud colors, he buys a pair of Beats. When he left, she laughed to me and said,"What!? You think I could teach him anything?"


 
  
 yeah that's true. a couple weeks ago i went to a store and somebody was asking which iems has the less bass and more _crings_. by crings i assume he means treble. he doesn't seem to know audio  glossary at all..... and i dont think he's familiar with frequency range either. he seemed a little confused when being told so and so iems are good for midrange.
  
 anw, the store tried to sell rha ma750i even after the guy tried and told them it has too much bass. the store told him it'd be the _cring-_est iems on the $200 price range. i was trying out k551 for a little bit. but come on.. ma750i is bright?
  
 well he went home with ma750i and on the way out of the store i lent him my sr80 from my bag and he liked it. and he immediately regrets the ma750i purchase he just made.
  
 It's different between somebody set on their way to buy bose beats monster brand and somebody that's eager to find something that fit them yet being _tricked _by the stores...


----------



## OneTallGuy

pirakaphile said:


> Alright, I had a nice neat plan for my audio plans until now, when I decided to get the Audeze LCD2, and now I'm wondering if I should skip Lyr2/Bifrost and try to go straight for Mjolnir/Gungnir combo for my end game setup.
> I'm also at a loss as to what I should get first, the Audeze, or the Schiit. I've already got my HiFiMAN HE-500, so I don't need to upgrade headphones immediately, but the Audeze are also going to take two years of saving up. $500 a year limit.
> Feh, all this effort for my music listening pleasure better be worth it in a decade.


 
 Pirakaphile,
 I have the HE-500 and the Audeze LCD-2.  There is a difference between the two, but not one that would say one is better than the other in all circumstances.  I use these two headphones in the my audio/video room.  (The wife calls the room our living room).  If I am watching TV, or Movies, I will use the HE-500.  The background ambiance is sharper, the voices are crisper, and the details are more observable.  This is true whether I hook only to my SS DAC/AMP alone or my SS DAC and Tube amp combo.   If I am watching a musical or listening to audio music by itself, I hook the LCD-2 to the  SS DAC and Tube amp combination.  The smoothness, musicality, and enjoyment is just sublime.  Nothing has ever soothed my soul like this combination.
 Both headphones are great in what they do.  Neither is better than the other in all circumstances.


----------



## rovopio

onetallguy said:


> Pirakaphile,
> I have the HE-500 and the Audeze LCD-2.  There is a difference between the two, but not one that would say one is better than the other in all circumstances.  I use these two headphones in the my audio/video room.  (The wife calls the room our living room).  If I am watching TV, or Movies, I will use the HE-500.  The background ambiance is sharper, the voices are crisper, and the details are more observable.  This is true whether I hook only to my SS DAC/AMP alone or my SS DAC and Tube amp combo.   If I am watching a musical or listening to audio music by itself, I hook the LCD-2 to the  SS DAC and Tube amp combination.  The smoothness, musicality, and enjoyment is just sublime.  Nothing has ever soothed my soul like this combination.
> Both headphones are great in what they do.  Neither is better than the other in all circumstances.


 
  
 what was your thought process like before choosing lcd-2? the lcd-2 -3 and -x codenames sounds similar in my head, and they look similar too. how did you pick which one suits you best? do they sound entirely different when you audition them?


----------



## Pirakaphile

onetallguy said:


> Pirakaphile,
> I have the HE-500 and the Audeze LCD-2.  There is a difference between the two, but not one that would say one is better than the other in all circumstances.  I use these two headphones in the my audio/video room.  (The wife calls the room our living room).  If I am watching TV, or Movies, I will use the HE-500.  The background ambiance is sharper, the voices are crisper, and the details are more observable.  This is true whether I hook only to my SS DAC/AMP alone or my SS DAC and Tube amp combo.   If I am watching a musical or listening to audio music by itself, I hook the LCD-2 to the  SS DAC and Tube amp combination.  The smoothness, musicality, and enjoyment is just sublime.  Nothing has ever soothed my soul like this combination.
> Both headphones are great in what they do.  Neither is better than the other in all circumstances.


 
 I'm planning on getting the Audeze for really chill music listening, while the HiFiMANs will be for more in-depth critical listening. The Beyerdynamic DT990 PROs have crazy accentuated bass and massive soundstage for movie watching. You definitely like the LCD2 for music listening though, right?


----------



## jalalinator




----------



## money4me247

@jalalinator,
  
 lol. at above post. ur desk is messy.
  
 I spy an vv ecig w/ bc tank (kanger aerotank?), razor blackwidow mechanical keyboard, xbox one, astro mixamp pro, beyer t90 headphones, dell external monitor, panasonic cordless phone, gaming pc with nvidia geforce graphics card, krk rokit rp6 g3 monitor speakers, netgear nighthawk router, electro-voice re20 broadcast microphone, m-audio m-track midi interface... and finally a magni 2 & modi 2 stack with pyst cables!!!!
  
  
 ...hahaha, how many items did I get right?


----------



## scizzro

money4me247 said:


> @jalalinator,
> ...hahaha, how many items did I get right?


 
 I see a PS4 and a maybe corsair cpu watercooler pump too? This dude really has everything lol


----------



## OneTallGuy

pirakaphile said:


> onetallguy said:
> 
> 
> > Pirakaphile,
> ...


 
  
 I am an audio/video multi-tasker.  If I am looking at a football game I am doing something on my computer.  If I am watching normal TV at night with the family, we are often talking over the show or doing something on our laptop or tablets.  Only when watching movies do we lower the lights and concentrate of the show.  I have always listened to music when studying, reading, working around the house, etc., ever since high school (many, many decades ago).  
 If I listen through any of my headphones, except the Audeze, nothing changes.  Whatever the quality of the music is, I may slow down whatever I am doing to heard more detail, but nothing too radical.  
  
 The Audeze, however, presents a different world.  No matter how hard I try, I can not get anything accomplished while listening to the LCD-2.  The music quality, the nuances, the smoothness, and the sound is hypnotic, especially when listening through my Woo 6se tube amp..    I will find myself just leaning against the back of my chair, visualizing what is happening, enjoying the total pleasure of the moment.  I do not care whether I am listening to hard rock, jazz, soul, blues or any other type of music.  My blood pressure and pulse goes down.  The stresses of the moment, day or week become unimportant.  Life is good, again.
  
 So, yes, I definitely like the LCD-2 for music listening.


----------



## OneTallGuy

rovopio said:


> onetallguy said:
> 
> 
> > Pirakaphile,
> ...


 
  
 I purchased the LCD-2 ver2 two years ago.  At that time I purchased it based only on the reviews I read on the internet.  I spent weeks reading everything I could find.
  
 I went to the Denver convention, 2 yrs ago, carrying around the LCD-2, along with a CD of  test songs, compiled from the recommendations of Head-Fi’ers, that fit my needs.  I listened to every good headphone at the meet, (not Stax, too expensive), and A-B compared to the LDC-2.  I listened to every amp/dac combination in the meet, and compared with the Audeze.  
  
 I listened to every product that Schiit had.  I even spoke shortly to Jason Stoddard who was very helpful, and answered all my questions.  I did not know he was the owner of the company at that time.  Every one of his system combinations had a different sound and I really did not hear the qualities I was looking for until I listened to his newest combo at the meet.  I think it was the gungnir/mjolnir pair.  This combo was very good.  (I have the magni 2 and modi 2 on order for my office.  I am sure they will do all I need for non critical background listening while working.  I will be using the Beyerdynamic mmx 300 headphones.)
  
 I also listened and compared, as critically as possible, all of the versions of the Audeze headphones available at that time.  They had the LCD1, LCD2, LCD3, and a prototype solid back headphone.  The one I most wanted to compare to was the LCD-3, rave reviews and all that, including mucho money.  Due to the noise of the ongoing convention, fair, quiet, critical listening was not possible, but I did what I could.  If I really concentrated I could hear a difference between the LCD-3 and my LCD-2 ver 2.  The difference did sound better, but only marginally.  IMO not enough to warrant the extra $1000.  At least not for me.  
  
 If I was buying my first Audeze, I would purchase the LCD-3, if money was not an issue.  I have not heard the LCD-X.  If money was highly relevant, I would purchase, again, the LCD-2 ver 2 and with the right amp and dac, be perfectly happy.


----------



## BeatsWork

onetallguy said:


> Pirakaphile,
> I have the HE-500 and the Audeze LCD-2.  There is a difference between the two, but not one that would say one is better than the other in all circumstances.  I use these two headphones in the my audio/video room.  (The wife calls the room our living room).  If I am watching TV, or Movies, I will use the HE-500.  The background ambiance is sharper, the voices are crisper, and the details are more observable.




Your wife let's you use open cans in the living room? I get grief just using them in my office ....


----------



## OneTallGuy

beatswork said:


> onetallguy said:
> 
> 
> > Pirakaphile,
> ...


 
 She and I do not listen to music at the same time.  Her headphones are closed back so she would not hear my ambient noise anyway.


----------



## jalalinator

money4me247 said:


> @jalalinator,
> 
> lol. at above post. ur desk is messy.
> 
> ...


 

 hahaa You got most right! Except I would never buy ****ty dell monitors lolol, 2 Benqs and its a evga gtx 780ti, whoever said corsair cooler is also correct thats cooling a 4770k . money4me you were practically on point though great eye!! its a dna 30 clone with a mini protank xD @ 0.8 ohms.
  
 about the mess: I'm just a messy guy LOL. Im not good at cable management.
  
 theres also a mic preamp hiding back there ,a dxracer chair and a xbox scuf one


----------



## rovopio

jalalinator said:


> hahaa You got most right! Except I would never buy ****ty dell monitors lolol, 2 Benqs and its a evga gtx 780ti, whoever said corsair cooler is also correct thats cooling a 4770k . money4me you were practically on point though great eye!! its a dna 30 clone with a mini protank xD @ 0.8 ohms.
> 
> about the mess: I'm just a messy guy LOL. Im not good at cable management.
> 
> theres also a mic preamp hiding back there ,a dxracer chair and a xbox scuf one


 
  
 what's the mic for? are you musician or youtube artist or something?


----------



## jalalinator

rovopio said:


> what's the mic for? are you musician or youtube artist or something?


 

 hey I just like good audio quality 
  
 the modi uber button on the front rattles if I play my krks too loud, this is really annoying, might have to tape it. The better the quality audio (24bit) the more resonance moves that damn button lol


----------



## spykez

What's your opinions on the Valhalla vs Asgard?
  
 I had to return my Little Dot. Some of you probably saw the hellacious time I've been having trying to find some ground loop issues and the last stand was returning the Little Dot for another amp to see if that fixed the issue.
  
 I've got pretty much all schiit gear sitting on my desk right now (modi, wyrd, sys) and might as well continue the trend.
  
 I have HD598 cans and plan on getting either the 600 or 700s. Maybe the 700s.


----------



## StanD

spykez said:


> What's your opinions on the Valhalla vs Asgard?
> 
> I had to return my Little Dot. Some of you probably saw the hellacious time I've been having trying to find some ground loop issues and the last stand was returning the Little Dot for another amp to see if that fixed the issue.
> 
> ...


 
 Basically you're asking whether to get an SS or tube amp. That's a matter of taste. I prefer SS so naturally I'll say get an Asgard 2, which I own and use with an HD600 and HE-500....I'm very happy with it. The next person might say otherwise. If you plan on getting a Magnetic Planar can, then the Valhalla is probably not going to drive it well enough. The Asgard can handle dynamic as well as Mag Planar cans.


----------



## jalalinator

would the magni 2 uber run hd650s?


----------



## reddington

jalalinator said:


> would the magni 2 uber run hd650s?




Don't know about the synergy but going by the power ratings Magni 2 U would run the 650s without breaking a sweat.

I think a lot of people are using the same and are very happy with it.


----------



## jalalinator

thanks alot, my future purchases will be q701 and hd650


----------



## mikey1964

It's official! I'm a Schiity guy as of today!


----------



## reddog

mikey1964 said:


> It's official! I'm a Schiity guy as of today!



Welcome to club Schiit, may your rig always put a smile on your face.


----------



## njpozner

Mikey, not to derail, but where did you get that awesome headphone stand?


----------



## mikey1964

njpozner said:


> Mikey, not to derail, but where did you get that awesome headphone stand?


 
 Just google 'wooden omega stand' and you'll see some results. I'd gotten mine locally from a seller whom'd prolly imported a bunch from alibaba and selling them piecemeal, I'd paid about 30USD for mine, I have two of them. I'd also gotten a couple of metal headphone stands, you can see them here in this pic....cost about 15USD each.

  
 BTW, thanks reddog, for the very warm welcome to the Schiit club (where only 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 dudes hang out).


----------



## money4me247

lol where did you find them for $15? those coppercolour metal stands are usually sold for $40-50ish.


----------



## mikey1964

money4me247 said:


> lol where did you find them for $15? those coppercolour metal stands are usually sold for $40-50ish.


 
 Really? And here I was thinking I'd paid too much for them.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'd miscalculated the price of the wooden Omega stands, they cost me 35USD each. As to where I'd gotten the CopperColour stands, it was from the same guy who sold me the Omega stands. Come to think of it, I might as well order another three more from him since they are at quite a bargain.....and yes, I might be getting another can or two.


----------



## scizzro

Speaking of headphone stands, I've been looking for a while at them.. I don't care for the omega's because I don't want to store them flexed open like that... I really like the concept of HiFiMan's stand, because all the weight isn't on the headband, the cups are also somewhat supported by the slope. I might try to DIY one of these myself.
  

 Anyway, to keep the thread on track, anyone planning on getting an Yggy when they drop?


----------



## money4me247

note if using the he-560/he-400i with hifiman's official stand, you will need to have the stand against the edge of something to let the wires hang down as the stand is not tall enough to give the wires any clearance space. kinda a design flaw imo.


----------



## Zojokkeli

scizzro said:


> Speaking of headphone stands, I've been looking for a while at them.. I don't care for the omega's because I don't want to store them flexed open like that... I really like the concept of HiFiMan's stand, because all the weight isn't on the headband, the cups are also somewhat supported by the slope. I might try to DIY one of these myself.


 
  
 Woo Audio has pretty nice headphone stands.


----------



## hifi nub

Heya, lyr2 owners.
  
 Where the lyr2 will be stationed is pretty far from my outlet, how long is the power cord for the lyr2? Could someone take a tape measure and toss me the length in inches of the power cord?
  
 Thanks.
  
 I have a feeling I will have to buy a 10 footer from amazon and/or use an extension cord.


----------



## scizzro

hifi nub said:


> Heya, lyr2 owners.
> 
> Where the lyr2 will be stationed is pretty far from my outlet, how long is the power cord for the lyr2? Could someone take a tape measure and toss me the length in inches of the power cord?
> 
> ...


 

 Tip to tip is 70.5". You'll lose around 1.5" of that having it plugged into the Lyr and wall. So around 69" from the wall is farthest this thing will go, and that's stretching it.


----------



## hifi nub

scizzro said:


> Tip to tip is 70.5". You'll lose around 1.5" of that having it plugged into the Lyr and wall. So around 69" from the wall is farthest this thing will go, and that's stretching it.


 
 Oh, it is longer than I thought, Wow. I was imagining a short psu cord. Yea that is plenty of length for me, just taped it and I have like 5" of play. Just the perfect length. +Rep!


----------



## freedom01

Currently using the silverstone headphone stand.
 The aluminum material matches the headphone and my schiit (bifrost uber + valhalla2 pending arrival).
 In case anyone is interested, here is the link to the stand http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=490&area=en
  
 Can't wait to fire them up.


----------



## scizzro

freedom01 said:


> The aluminum material matches the headphone and my schiit (bifrost uber + valhalla2 pending arrival).
> 
> Can't wait to fire them up.


 
 Hah, you will love them. Congrats on the new setup, high roller


----------



## grrorr76

scizzro said:


> Hah, you will love them. Congrats on the new setup, high roller


 

 give them some time to burn in. I have noticed with mine they get better and better with use.


----------



## luiztfc

So folks, recently I bought a LCD-2 (c'mon Audeze, just ship it already!). It's is my first "serious" headphone, but I still need an amp+dac combo.
  
 Barrage of questions incoming...
  
 1 - I like a warm and lush sound, so after some research, I narrowed my options to the Lyr 2 + Bifrost combo. Is it the best option? (I realize I'm asking this in a Schiit owners thread, lol)
  
 2 - About the Bifrost, are the upgrades (uber analog + gen 2 usb) worth it?
  
 3 - I'm also buying the cables there ( PYST RCA 6" + PYST USB A-B 1M), just for the sake of convenience, but for I also wonder if they are good.
  
 4 - Lastly, what's the best (online) shop to to buy the mentioned combo? I only know Schiit's website. 
  
 Thank you very much! Sorry for that many questions and for the any mistakes


----------



## money4me247

luiztfc said:


> So folks, recently I bought a LCD-2 (c'mon Audeze, just ship it already!). It's is my first "serious" headphone, but I still need an amp+dac combo.
> 
> Barrage of questions incoming...
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) The most similar alternative to the Lyr 2 in this price range would be Garage1217's Project Ember hybrid tube amplifier. $325 for standard version, $$365 for version with supercharger (allows you to roll more powerful tubes).
  
 2) You will get different subjective responses on this. I personally always like to max out my gear, so I would get it. However, differences are likely to be subtler than the claims as differences between DACs are generally a lot more subtle than differences between headphones. I think very few people really have done an objective blind ABx test between the two options, so you will not get a definite answer for this question. Depends on your budget & wants.
  
 3) Cables don't make a difference. You can get PYST cables or cheap Monoprice cables. This is a debated topic though, so there are people here who do believe that cables make a difference. Scientifically speaking, there has not really been any conclusion studies showing audible gains from different cables. If you are staying within the budget bracket of cables (not going for fancy custom cables), it is unlikely that cables will make a difference unless you have a pair of defective or poorly made cables. Monoprice is pretty reputable. Even if you are in the "cables" make a difference camp, you will be needing to spend $100+ or more for one such cable & even cable believers recognize that cables would be the last thing in your chain to worry about. Order of importance for sound quality: Source>>> Headphones>>> Amps/Dacs >>> cables/other. (and amps/dacs are really for tuning the last 10-15% of your sound quality, so if cables maybe a sonic difference, it would be like 1% or less).
  
 4) Best online store would be Schiit's website. You can consider purchasing from Amazon if you are a Prime member, want the 2-day shipping, and Amazon customer service (30 day hassle-free return policy). Schiit has a 15 return period with a restocking fee (I believe 10%).


----------



## madwolfa

luiztfc said:


> So folks, recently I bought a LCD-2 (c'mon Audeze, just ship it already!). It's is my first "serious" headphone, but I still need an amp+dac combo.
> 
> Barrage of questions incoming...
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) Yes, however you could save some dough and get yourself an Asgard 2, which is more than plenty for LCD-2F. Up to you.
 2) Yes.
 3) Yes.
 4) Buy directly from Schiit.


----------



## MattTCG

luiztfc said:


> So folks, recently I bought a LCD-2 (c'mon Audeze, just ship it already!). It's is my first "serious" headphone, but I still need an amp+dac combo.
> 
> Barrage of questions incoming...
> 
> ...


 

 1. That combo is certainly a top tier choice for the lcd2.2 and IMO you could spend 2x as much and essentially have the same performance for that particular hp.
  
 2. If it's in your budget I would definitely add those options. At least the uber upgrade and add the gen 2 upgrade later. You could start off with no usb if your budget is tight. I've had the bifrost since the early days and have upgraded it along the way. I was able to hear and appreciate each of those upgrades, so IMO it's worth it.
  
 3. I believe that Signal makes those cables and the construction and performance is quite nice for the price.
  
 4. I believe in buying direct from Schiit. Better than having to deal with a reseller if you have an issue.


----------



## Eee Pee

matttcg said:


> 3. I believe that Signal makes those cables and the construction and performance is quite nice for the price.


 
  
 Straight Wire.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the correction


----------



## Eee Pee

I'm impressed you mentioned Signal.  Seems rare.  I have some of his copper.  Got em mostly for the Eichmann connectors.


----------



## TK277

I would agree that buying direct and ordering the cables from them is the way to go. I believe in Schiit when it comes to Audeze. I used their PYST for about a year – perfect length for stacking. Get nice and comfortable with the system before looking for things to upgrade...going in with all the bells and whistles would be disorienting.
  
 I was a nonbeliever in cables until I moved to Seattle. Then all the HeadFiers with boxes of cables available for me to play with changed my mind. That said, it's true that even if you build them yourself, you're looking at $100 in parts for power cables. You can't build a "nice" XLR cable for less than $100 either. I got my Oyaide XLRs on sale for $80 (vs $160). Not sure about USB as I'm still rocking an Amazon basics USB cable for now. YMMV.


----------



## spykez

matttcg said:


> luiztfc said:
> 
> 
> > So folks, recently I bought a LCD-2 (c'mon Audeze, just ship it already!). It's is my first "serious" headphone, but I still need an amp+dac combo.
> ...


 
 Schiit doesn't have any resellers. The only other place to get their stuff is used on ebay or through Schiit's own store on Amazon. If they have what you want on amazon that's the better alternative since you get 2 day shipping with prime, and you're still dealing with Schiit. Otherwise ordering from Schiit is expensive and slow. 12 bucks for my Asgard 2, ordered it Tuesday, shipped wednesdayand won't be here till next tuesday now


----------



## scizzro

spykez said:


> Schiit doesn't have any resellers. The only other place to get their stuff is used on ebay or through Schiit's own store on Amazon. If they have what you want on amazon that's the better alternative since you get 2 day shipping with prime. Otherwise ordering from Schiit is expensive and slow. 12 bucks for my Asgard 2, ordered it Tuesday, shipped wednesdayand won't be here till next tuesday now


 
 Schiit has 5 authorized dealers between the USA/Canada. All the Amazon gear is marked up $30 or so, so although you don't get Prime, it's cheaper to buy direct. Expedited shipping is available from Schiit as well, which would probably bring the price up closer to the Amazon prices.


----------



## Sonic Defender

madwolfa said:


> 1) Yes, however you could save some dough and get yourself an Asgard 2, which is more than plenty for LCD-2F. Up to you.
> 2) Yes.
> 3) Yes.
> 4) Buy directly from Schiit.


 

 I had an Asgard 2 and I thought it was toward the bright side?


----------



## Groundzero

Hi Everyone,
 I have a situation I'm hoping you all can help with. I bought my significant other a Modi 2 / Magni 2 combo for christmas and since then I have had a couple chances to demo the Magni 2 with my Denon D7000s. The combo was so good, I went and bought myself an Asgard 2 thinking it would be even better, but it isn't. I've A/B compared the amps with the D7k and prefer the Magni every time. Everything from bass, to vocals, to detail sounds better on the Magni 2. The only area I would say the Asgard 2 is better would be sound stage. Now am I crazy or is this a case of the amp not matching the headphones? From the spec sheets I see the Magni 2 does 1.8w @ <0.2 ohm output impedance, where as the Asgard 2 does 1.0w @ 2.0 ohm output impedance. Research as shown me that low impedance headphones pair better with low output impedance. However, the same research also said anything under 3 ohms output would be fine. 
  
 I was thinking of possibly using the 15 day guarantee to "upgrade" to a Magni 2 Uber from the Asgard 2, but am looking for some input.
  
 Another option would be a Lyr 2, but I'm a little weary of using a tube amp (even a hybrid) as an everyday amp for watching movies and gaming in addition to music. Does anyone do this without issues?
  
 Thanks


----------



## scizzro

groundzero said:


> Another option would be a Lyr 2, but I'm a little weary of using a tube amp (even a hybrid) as an everyday amp for watching movies and gaming in addition to music. Does anyone do this without issues?


 
 Whenever I'm not in the mood for serious listening, I take out my good tubes and roll in the stocks. They are rated for 5k hours and only cost $20. Whether you'll be able to notice a difference between Magni and Lyr, not sure. With my middle of the road headphones, I have a rough time telling the two apart.


----------



## money4me247

groundzero said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I have a situation I'm hoping you all can help with. I bought my significant other a Modi 2 / Magni 2 combo for christmas and since then I have had a couple chances to demo the Magni 2 with my Denon D7000s. The combo was so good, I went and bought myself an Asgard 2 thinking it would be even better, but it isn't. I've A/B compared the amps with the D7k and prefer the Magni every time. Everything from bass, to vocals, to detail sounds better on the Magni 2. The only area I would say the Asgard 2 is better would be sound stage. Now am I crazy or is this a case of the amp not matching the headphones? From the spec sheets I see the Magni 2 does 1.8w @ <0.2 ohm output impedance, where as the Asgard 2 does 1.0w @ 2.0 ohm output impedance. Research as shown me that low impedance headphones pair better with low output impedance. However, the same research also said anything under 3 ohms output would be fine.
> 
> I was thinking of possibly using the 15 day guarantee to "upgrade" to a Magni 2 Uber from the Asgard 2, but am looking for some input.
> ...




i use the lyr2 for daily usage with movies, gaming, music and everything. no issues so far. tubes have a shelf life of some thousand of hours. forgot the exact number.

howeva, if u like the magni 2 uber u cld save some money


----------



## Wildcatsare1

groundzero said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I have a situation I'm hoping you all can help with. I bought my significant other a Modi 2 / Magni 2 combo for christmas and since then I have had a couple chances to demo the Magni 2 with my Denon D7000s. The combo was so good, I went and bought myself an Asgard 2 thinking it would be even better, but it isn't. I've A/B compared the amps with the D7k and prefer the Magni every time. Everything from bass, to vocals, to detail sounds better on the Magni 2. The only area I would say the Asgard 2 is better would be sound stage. Now am I crazy or is this a case of the amp not matching the headphones? From the spec sheets I see the Magni 2 does 1.8w @ <0.2 ohm output impedance, where as the Asgard 2 does 1.0w @ 2.0 ohm output impedance. Research as shown me that low impedance headphones pair better with low output impedance. However, the same research also said anything under 3 ohms output would be fine.
> 
> I was thinking of possibly using the 15 day guarantee to "upgrade" to a Magni 2 Uber from the Asgard 2, but am looking for some input.
> ...


 

 I would contact Schiit, they are great about working with Customers. I ended up upgrading a Valhalla to a Lyr 2. Love the Lyr Amp, with Voskhod Tubes. Though for semi-portable it's on the big and hot side, probably be better for non-desktop listening.


----------



## Tuco1965

Yeah there's something about the Lyr and Voskhods.  A great match for sure.


----------



## StanD

groundzero said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I have a situation I'm hoping you all can help with. I bought my significant other a Modi 2 / Magni 2 combo for christmas and since then I have had a couple chances to demo the Magni 2 with my Denon D7000s. The combo was so good, I went and bought myself an Asgard 2 thinking it would be even better, but it isn't. I've A/B compared the amps with the D7k and prefer the Magni every time. Everything from bass, to vocals, to detail sounds better on the Magni 2. The only area I would say the Asgard 2 is better would be sound stage. Now am I crazy or is this a case of the amp not matching the headphones? From the spec sheets I see the Magni 2 does 1.8w @ <0.2 ohm output impedance, where as the Asgard 2 does 1.0w @ 2.0 ohm output impedance. Research as shown me that low impedance headphones pair better with low output impedance. However, the same research also said anything under 3 ohms output would be fine.
> 
> I was thinking of possibly using the 15 day guarantee to "upgrade" to a Magni 2 Uber from the Asgard 2, but am looking for some input.
> ...


 
 If you don't use an A/B switch and carefully match volume your tests may not be all that accurate. As far as impedance goes there's a basic rule that the heaphone's impedance should be at least 8 times higher than the amp's output impedance. This is less important with cans that are resistive (flat impedance curve) like a magnetic planar rather than reactive or dynamic can. Though some dynamic cans have a reasonable flat impedance curve. The amount of wattage you need depends on the can's sensitivity, not just it's impedance. Soundwise, I find the Asgard 2 to be first rate.


----------



## 520RanchBro

I can't imagine I'll ever be buying another amp, the Asgard 2 will be all I need I'm sure as far as desktop amps go. It's my end-game amp.


----------



## Rozenberg

groundzero said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I have a situation I'm hoping you all can help with. I bought my significant other a Modi 2 / Magni 2 combo for christmas and since then I have had a couple chances to demo the Magni 2 with my Denon D7000s. The combo was so good, I went and *bought myself an Asgard 2 thinking it would be even better*, but it isn't. I've A/B compared the amps with the D7k and prefer the Magni every time. Everything from bass, to vocals, to detail sounds better on the Magni 2. The only area I would say the Asgard 2 is better would be sound stage. Now am I crazy or is this a case of the amp not matching the headphones? From the spec sheets I see the Magni 2 does 1.8w @ <0.2 ohm output impedance, where as the Asgard 2 does 1.0w @ 2.0 ohm output impedance. Research as shown me that low impedance headphones pair better with low output impedance. However, the same research also said anything under 3 ohms output would be fine.
> 
> I was thinking of possibly using the 15 day guarantee to "upgrade" to a Magni 2 Uber from the Asgard 2, but am looking for some input.
> ...


 
  
 I actually am interested in your condition.
 I'm going to buy a desktop amp for my K7XX as the built in amp of the Aune T1 is so-so. I'm not buying the Modi yet because I want to try coloring the sound with the Aune.
 Currently considering Magni 2 Über (159€ thanks EU!) or Asgard 2 (239€ thanks EU!).
 From what I've read, some claimed both don't differ much or no difference. I did not see anyone stating the difference so exaggeratedly so maybe they're indeed not much different?
 Now the question is, is the 80€ price difference worth the performance difference? And this question is excluding the size, heat produced, material, features etc.


----------



## RRod

rozenberg said:


> I actually am interested in your condition.
> I'm going to buy a desktop amp for my K7XX as the built in amp of the Aune T1 is so-so. I'm not buying the Modi yet because I want to try coloring the sound with the Aune.
> Currently considering Magni 2 Über (159€ thanks EU!) or Asgard 2 (239€ thanks EU!).
> From what I've read, some claimed both don't differ much or no difference. I did not see anyone stating the difference so exaggeratedly so maybe they're indeed not much different?
> Now the question is, is the 80€ price difference worth the performance difference? And this question is excluding the size, heat produced, material, features etc.


 
  
 They're both solid-state amps with low output impedance and similar power characteristics, so they won't sound different really (which would match what I get with my Asgard2, Magni1, and soon-to-be-sold V200). If you like to cook eggs on your amp and want a really smooth pot, get the Asgard, otherwise get the Magni.


----------



## StanD

rozenberg said:


> I actually am interested in your condition.
> I'm going to buy a desktop amp for my K7XX as the built in amp of the Aune T1 is so-so. I'm not buying the Modi yet because I want to try coloring the sound with the Aune.
> Currently considering Magni 2 Über (159€ thanks EU!) or Asgard 2 (239€ thanks EU!).
> From what I've read, some claimed both don't differ much or no difference. I did not see anyone stating the difference so exaggeratedly so maybe they're indeed not much different?
> Now the question is, is the 80€ price difference worth the performance difference? And this question is excluding the size, heat produced, material, features etc.


 
 I own both a  Magni 1 and an Asgard 2. If you got the Magni 2 Uber, you probably couldn't tell the difference. The Asgard 2 and Magni 1 sound so alike that one couldn't tell the difference unless they concentrated so hard, one's eyes might fall out and only under certain musical conditions. As far as I am concerned, the story about the Magni being bright is a pure myth. The heat of the Asgard 2 is not something to worry about, your house wont burn down and you won't sustain any injuries from touching it.
 One begins to hear differences when playing uncompressed music (volume compression, not digital) very loudly. Most good SS amps do well under these conditions, some don't. The good news is that Schiit designs their products correctly.
 Do you really want to color your sound or do you want to listen what was recorded? Once you go the route of coloration, everything you listen to will be colored. I prefer clean and pristine.


----------



## KLJTech

rrod said:


> They're both solid-state amps with low output impedance and similar power characteristics, so they won't sound different really (which would match what I get with my Asgard2, Magni1, and soon-to-be-sold V200). If you like to cook eggs on your amp and want a really smooth pot, get the Asgard, otherwise get the Magni.


 
  
 The Asgard 2 runs warm, as true "Class A" designs do but its never going to be an issue with the case being used to dissipate the heat. I have one sitting a foot and a half away from me while working all day and never feel the heat/warmth from the amp until I adjust the warm, silky smooth volume knob. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 With its high and low gain switch, preamp outputs and _outstanding sound quality_ the Asgard 2 for $249 is rather difficult to beat. Oh, when you add the fact that the guys from Schiit Audio are often here to answer questions, offer a 5-year warranty and build the stuff right here in the U.S it becomes an incredibly good deal.


----------



## RRod

kljtech said:


> The Asgard 2 runs warm, as true "Class A" designs do but its never going to be an issue with the case being used to dissipate the heat. I have one sitting a foot and a half away from me while working all day and never feel the heat/warmth from the amp until I adjust the warm, silky smooth volume knob.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The cooking eggs thing was pure joke; you'd just annoy the eggs and really piss off the amp. And the pot is very smooth, albeit sometimes jarring to touch when it's cold in the office. Still, if I had to re-buy things today, I'd just get a Magni2 for both home and office and be done with it.


----------



## Rozenberg

rrod said:


> They're both solid-state amps with low output impedance and similar power characteristics, so they won't sound different really (which would match what I get with my Asgard2, Magni1, and soon-to-be-sold V200). If you like to cook eggs on your amp and want a really smooth pot, get the Asgard, otherwise get the Magni.







stand said:


> I own both a  Magni 1 and an Asgard 2. If you got the Magni 2 Uber, you probably couldn't tell the difference. The Asgard 2 and Magni 1 sound so alike that one couldn't tell the difference unless they concentrated so hard, one's eyes might fall out and only under certain musical conditions. As far as I am concerned, the story about the Magni being bright is a pure myth. The heat of the Asgard 2 is not something to worry about, your house wont burn down and you won't sustain any injuries from touching it.
> One begins to hear differences when playing uncompressed music (volume compression, not digital) very loudly. Most good SS amps do well under these conditions, some don't. The good news is that Schiit designs their products correctly.
> Do you really want to color your sound or do you want to listen what was recorded? Once you go the route of coloration, everything you listen to will be colored. I prefer clean and pristine.




A'rite, you both had me convinced for the Magni 2 Über which means I could get em next month.

I'll get the Modi in the future, as for now I wanna try sound coloration. Having varieties won't hurt 

Btw does the Magni come with a RCA cable in the box?


----------



## rovopio

rozenberg said:


> A'rite, you both had me convinced for the Magni 2 Über which means I could get em next month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 


you wont get sound coloration from magni 2 uber
 never mind. my bad.


----------



## StanD

rozenberg said:


> A'rite, you both had me convinced for the Magni 2 Über which means I could get em next month.
> 
> I'll get the Modi in the future, as for now I wanna try sound coloration. Having varieties won't hurt
> 
> ...


 
 Nope, got to buy your own cables. Monoprice makes good cables at a very reasonable price.


----------



## Rozenberg

stand said:


> Nope, got to buy your own cables. Monoprice makes good cables at a very reasonable price.


 
  
 Okay thanks. Just making sure everything is prepared


----------



## Peeko2

Magni2U/Modi2U don't come with cables but schiit does sell their brand of 6" cables which come highly recommended.


----------



## BeatsWork

peeko2 said:


> Magni2U/Modi2U don't come with cables but schiit does sell their brand of 6" cables which come highly recommended.



 


+1 I Have the Pyst Balanced & USB cables and would put them firmly in the "worthwhile splurge" category. Extremely cheap for anything labeled "interconnect", well constructed, aesthetically pleasing and just the right lengths  But as mentioned (and even on Schiit Pyst page) - Monoprice will work just fine ...


----------



## BeatsWork

rozenberg said:


> I actually am interested in your condition.
> I'm going to buy a desktop amp for my K7XX as the built in amp of the Aune T1 is so-so. I'm not buying the Modi yet because I want to try coloring the sound with the Aune.
> Currently considering Magni 2 Über (159€ thanks EU!) or Asgard 2 (239€ thanks EU!).
> From what I've read, some claimed both don't differ much or no difference. I did not see anyone stating the difference so exaggeratedly so maybe they're indeed not much different?
> Now the question is, is the 80€ price difference worth the performance difference? And this question is excluding the size, heat produced, material, features etc.


 
  
 Differences between any SS amp aiming for transparency and with similar specs are going to be fairly subtle.  If you're looking to significantly color sound you might have more fun with a) Tube amp b) Experimenting with VST plugins or even C) Hardware solution such as BBE Sonic Maximizer
  
 Purists will scoff at trying to "Color" the sound but it's your gear, your music, your ears - experiment, have fun and go with what pleases YOU


----------



## hifi nub

I am officially a "well we all are that we are human lolz" schiit owner.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/447585/post-pic-s-of-your-latest-significant-purchase-s-v2-0/4005#post_11230050


----------



## Tuco1965

hifi nub said:


> I am officially a "well we all are that we are human lolz" schiit owner.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/447585/post-pic-s-of-your-latest-significant-purchase-s-v2-0/4005#post_11230050


 
  
 Congrats on the new Schiit!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I love what Schitt is doing
  
  
 What is the ultimate rig? (no distortion, high noise floor, accurate playback?)
  
 I will pay for ultimate neutrality.


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> I love what Schitt is doing
> 
> 
> What is the ultimate rig? (no distortion, high noise floor, accurate playback?)
> ...


 
 I have a wire with gain for sale. 0 Ohms output impedance, unlimited gain and voltage swiing.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> I have a wire with gain for sale. 0 Ohms output impedance, unlimited gain and voltage swiing.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I have a wire with gain for sale. 0 Ohms output impedance, unlimited gain and voltage swiing.


 
  
  


blackenedplague said:


>


 
 Does that mean no sale?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

stand said:


> Does that mean no sale?


 
  
 Unless it is like 20 per 6 foot(pair)


----------



## BobG55

New member, bought the *Lyr 2* from Headphone Bar in BC should get it by the 28th of this month.  
  
 Then I bought these : *NOVIB Socket Saver with Vibration Reduction Base and Gold Plated Pins (socket side) - 9-pin B9A NOVAL, 15-21 days delivery USPS/Canada Post. *
  
 Finally today on FleeBay I bought the following : *Amperex Orange Label 6DJ8 ECC88 Vacuum Tube Pair *(made in Harleen which is in Holland, 1975.  The seller was asking $39.99, I offered $30 & we settled for $34.95 + $7.50 for shipping.  Here's the eBay link (once you're in, scroll down to the item)
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-LABEL-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-PAIR-SUPER-SWEET-MUSICAL-TONE-A11-/221666289736?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
  
  
 My objective is to enjoy the Lyr2 & my vintage Kenwood KA8006 int amp for the next 2 yrs or so while I pay off my debts *& THEN ....*(I can now hear Jim Morrison singing "The End") *.....** **THE END GAME :*  The McIntosh mha100.


----------



## Wiiffler

Getting a stack real soon! Lyr2 & Bitfrost sometimes next week. The hype is real!


----------



## reddog

wiiffler said:


> Getting a stack real soon! Lyr2 & Bitfrost sometimes next week. The hype is real!



Welcome to Club Schiit, may your stack put a smile on your face, till your tempted by the riddle of unhappiness: one has what one does not need and needs what one does not have. And thus ones wallet shall wail for that which does not produce materialist happiness. Sorry for being absurd but I have not slept for a long time. Entropy claim all.


----------



## Becomelikeyou

Hello it appears the Lyr2 I bought (in conjunction with the Bitfrost) is not working, it emits no sound when used with just the amp. I hear no sound in the headphones at all, other than intermittent hissing, and a popping sound in the headphones when closing it.
  
 I'm starting to regret having bought this combination instead of an all in one solution like the Oppo HA-1.
  
 I tried to follow the instructions and really don't know what the problem is. I know nothing about tube amps though, so it could be a really simple mistake, but at this stage I don't see what.


----------



## scizzro

becomelikeyou said:


> Hello it appears the Lyr2 I bought (in conjunction with the Bitfrost) is not working, it emits no sound when used with just the amp. I hear no sound in the headphones at all, other than intermittent hissing, and a popping sound in the headphones when closing it.
> 
> I'm starting to regret having bought this combination instead of an all in one solution like the Oppo HA-1.
> 
> I tried to follow the instructions and really don't know what the problem is. I know nothing about tube amps though, so it could be a really simple mistake, but at this stage I don't see what.


 
 Make sure the tubes are fully seated. It takes some force to get them in on a new socket. Also, what do you mean by "just the amp"?


----------



## MattTCG

becomelikeyou said:


> Hello it appears the Lyr2 I bought (in conjunction with the Bitfrost) is not working, it emits no sound when used with just the amp. I hear no sound in the headphones at all, other than intermittent hissing, and a popping sound in the headphones when closing it.
> 
> I'm starting to regret having bought this combination instead of an all in one solution like the Oppo HA-1.
> 
> I tried to follow the instructions and really don't know what the problem is. I know nothing about tube amps though, so it could be a really simple mistake, but at this stage I don't see what.


 
  
 Take a picture of the back of the amp with connections etc. And let's have a look at this together. Alternately you can call or email Schiit directly. They are outstanding with regard to customer support.


----------



## freddr

Have anyone tried Modi 2/Magni 2 Uber with HD800?


----------



## hifi nub

http://schiit.com/faq/amp-problems
  


> *[size=larger]No Output (One or Both Channels)[/size]*
> 1. *If there's no output in one channel, try different cables. *Cables do go bad, and with frightening regularity.
> 2. *If there's still no output in one channel, swap the cables from the source, *so they are each going into the "wrong" input (left into right, right into left). If the problem changes channels, the source is at fault.
> 3. *If the problem doesn't change channels with a cable swap, swap the tubes to the alternate side. *If the problem changes channels, you have a bad tube.
> ...


----------



## Becomelikeyou

scizzro said:


> Make sure the tubes are fully seated. It takes some force to get them in on a new socket. Also, what do you mean by "just the amp"?


 
  
 I am pressing quite firmly, but it seems they're still quite unstable after. They don't seem to lit up, except one which seems to lit up just a little bit. You're saying I should press even stronger? At this point I'm a bit afraid of damaging something.
  
 I plugged a stereo source into the amp's RCA inputs to see if there was sound, in order to make sure it wasn't the Bitfrost DAC which was the source of the problem.


----------



## Becomelikeyou

hifi nub said:


> http://schiit.com/faq/amp-problems


 

 All those I have checked (except for 5 which doesn't apply).


----------



## scizzro

becomelikeyou said:


> I am pressing quite firmly, but it seems they're still quite unstable after. They don't seem to lit up, except one which seems to lit up just a little bit. You're saying I should press even stronger? At this point I'm a bit afraid of damaging something.
> 
> I plugged a stereo source into the amp's RCA inputs to see if there was sound, in order to make sure it wasn't the Bitfrost DAC which was the source of the problem.


 
 Both tubes should have 2 filaments which begin to glow orangey after a short time. Make sure you plug them in correctly, they only go in 1 way - there is a gap in the pin spacing that needs to be aligned.


----------



## MattTCG

becomelikeyou said:


> All those I have checked (except for 5 which doesn't apply).


 
  
 You should call the guys at Schiit and let them walk you through this....(323) 230-0079


----------



## Becomelikeyou

scizzro said:


> Both tubes should have 2 filaments which begin to glow orangey after a short time. Make sure you plug them in correctly, they only go in 1 way - there is a gap in the pin spacing that needs to be aligned.


 
  
 That's how I tried to insert them.
  
 Here is a picture of how it looks like, I turn the lights off:
  

  
  
 I tried switching the tubes. I know that no matter what I do, only the tube placed in that spot lits up (doesn't matter which of the two tubes it is).


----------



## scizzro

becomelikeyou said:


> I tried switching the tubes. I know that no matter what I do, only the tube placed in that spot lits up (doesn't matter which of the two tubes it is).


 
 Woah. Definitely sounds like a bad unit. You'd better get in touch with them.


----------



## Billheiser

Yy





becomelikeyou said:


> I am pressing quite firmly, but it seems they're still quite unstable after. They don't seem to lit up, except one which seems to lit up just a little bit. You're saying I should press even stronger? At this point I'm a bit afraid of damaging something.


y
If they are unstable then that means they did not seat properly. Pull them out and reinsert. Line them up properly and press hard.


----------



## Becomelikeyou

Good news, it looks like I've spoken too soon, I seem to have gotten the tubes to work now:


 





 


 


However, sadly, it hasn't solved my issue. I plug the USB cable of the Bitfrost into my PC (I made sure to get a certified USB 2.0 cable), it is recognized as a Bitfrost DAC and selected.


However when I try to listen to anything, no sound comes out, except for some hissing and popping.


I will keep fiddling with it, if anyone has ideas feel free.


----------



## Tuco1965

The input cable on the Lyr and output on the Bifrost appear to be different cables?


----------



## Becomelikeyou

Yeah, that's why I deleted the pictures, I did something incredibly dumb. LOL

 It wasn't like that the first few times, it was afterward when I linked an audio source to it.


----------



## Tuco1965

Do you have a source with optical or coax output to try, perhaps a dvd player?


----------



## StanD

becomelikeyou said:


> Yeah, that's why I deleted the pictures, I did something incredibly dumb. LOL
> 
> It wasn't like that the first few times, it was afterward when I linked an audio source to it.


 
 Have you got the Lyr to work without the DAC?


----------



## ThurstonX

Did you select the Bifrost USB device in the player (foobar2000 or whatever)?  If you're positive the Bifrost is the active audio device in Windows and there's still no sound, find another stereo source and plug those cables into the INs on the Lyr.  Also, double check you've got the Bifrost or whatever source plugged into the Lyr's INs and not the preamp OUTs.
  
 Good luck.  I know it can be a PITA.  My Lyr's power supply died less than three months after I got it.  Schiit took care of it, though I did have to pay to ship it back.


----------



## Becomelikeyou

YES! SOUNDS COMES OUT! WOOHOO! PRAISE THE LORD!
  
 One of the tubes fell on the side though and that channel stopped. I wonder why I have so much trouble to set these in place correctly. Maybe I should ask my audiophile friend to help me.


----------



## StanD

becomelikeyou said:


> YES! SOUNDS COMES OUT! WOOHOO!


 
 So you got all of your Shiit happening?


----------



## jaywillin

becomelikeyou said:


> YES! SOUNDS COMES OUT! WOOHOO! PRAISE THE LORD!
> 
> One of the tubes fell on the side though and that channel stopped. I wonder why I have so much trouble to set these in place correctly. Maybe I should ask my audiophile friend to help me.


 
  
  


stand said:


> So you got all of your Shiit happening?


 
 he's got his schiit together !


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> he's got his schiit together !


 
 'Bout time he got his Schiit moving.
 :
 Time for the next drama. Who's up next?


----------



## Tuco1965

becomelikeyou said:


> YES! SOUNDS COMES OUT! WOOHOO! PRAISE THE LORD!
> 
> One of the tubes fell on the side though and that channel stopped. I wonder why I have so much trouble to set these in place correctly. Maybe I should ask my audiophile friend to help me.


 
  
 Your pic made them look like they are standing too high.  ie not seated properly.


----------



## RickB

Probably worrying over nothing, but is dust build-up ever going to be problem with Schiit amps and their large vents (specifically, I'm thinking of the Asgard 2)? How would you go about clearing dust out, canned air?


----------



## KLJTech

It can be a tad difficult to put in tubes if you've never done it before. It's not simply lining up the tube pins with the socket holes and pushing straight down.  You usually need to gently rock them back and forth while pushing down to get the tube seated into the socket properly. Good luck!


----------



## Guidostrunk

stand said:


> I have a wire with gain for sale. 0 Ohms output impedance, unlimited gain and voltage swiing.


----------



## StanD

Originally Posted by *StanD* 



 I have a wire with gain for sale. 0 Ohms output impedance, unlimited gain and voltage swiing.
  
 Quote:


guidostrunk said:


>


 
 OK, tough bargainer. I'll throw in some of that Florida Swampland I couldn't move.


----------



## BeatsWork

scizzro said:


> Make sure the tubes are fully seated. It takes some force to get them in on a new socket. Also, what do you mean by "just the amp"?




More force than you would expect but not brute force! Especially with new socket and tube you may need to gently rock the tube back and forth as you push down.


----------



## cspirou

The Schiit site says you need a paid app to play audio with Android through USB. However Android 5.0 is suppose to support USB audio natively. Can anyone with Android Lollipop confirm if Schiit DACs work without extra software?


----------



## StanD

cspirou said:


> The Schiit site says you need a paid app to play audio with Android through USB. However Android 5.0 is suppose to support USB audio natively. Can anyone with Android Lollipop confirm if Schiit DACs work without extra software?


 
 Not true. There are many Android phones prior to Lollipop that work with DACs without having to use any special software. I use my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (kitKat) with my Bifrost Uber USB2 and Modi 2 Uber without anything special. My older phone, GS3 also worked with the Bifrost but required a powered USB Hub. Both phones work with my FiiO E18 portable DAC/Amp. See the below link, it's a long thread.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs


----------



## Guidostrunk

stand said:


> OK, tough bargainer. I'll throw in some of that Florida Swampland I couldn't move.


----------



## CH23

stand said:


> Not true. There are many Android phones prior to Lollipop that work with DACs without having to use any special software. I use my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (kitKat) with my Bifrost Uber USB2 and Modi 2 Uber without anything special. My older phone, GS3 also worked with the Bifrost but required a powered USB Hub. Both phones work with my FiiO E18 portable DAC/Amp. See the below link, it's a long thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/595071/android-phones-and-usb-dacs




it should work on lollipop.

I run Cyanogenmod CM12 and connected to my FiiO X5, it works.


----------



## spykez

Got my Asgard 2 in today ^__^


----------



## Delirious Lab

↑ Nice looking family... Mother Asgard and her three little Schiits!


----------



## spykez

I just found out about the Mani, going to replace the djpre2 with it


----------



## 520RanchBro

spykez said:


> I just found out about the Mani, going to replace the djpre2 with it


 
 Let me know what you think. I'm wondering if I should try out the Mani vs. my Pro-Ject Phono Box.
  
 Also feeling really thankful for my Modi 2U today. I'm using my RE-600s in the headphone out of my Dell desktop at work. I've never heard a worse DAC from a modern computer.


----------



## OneTallGuy

I just received the Magni 2 and Modi 2 to be used in my office to replace the ASUS Xonar DG sound card.  This sound card was heads up better than the motherboard sound board from Dell, but was only marginally passible for music.  Before I brought the Schiit to the office, I wondered how it would compare to my two main systems at home: 
 1) Musical Fidelity HPA-1 Amp and Musical Fidelity M1 DAC   Retail $900
 2) Anedio D1 DAC and Woo 6SE Tube Amp.  Retail $2000          
  
 I reviewed with various headphones from Audeze, HiFiMan, Sennheiser, and V Moda.  I anticipated that the difference would be immediately noticeable and these units would dominate in audio quality.
  
 System 1.  Highly rated through out Europe but not heavily known in the US.  The difference was there but I had to very closely listen to hear it.  Based on price, was the Musical Fidelity 4 times better?  Imo, no.  If I had the opportunity to compare the 2 units before I purchased either, would I still purchase the MF?   Probably not.  Someone with better ears than mine, might, however.
  
 System 2.  Very highly rated everywhere.  Was the system, based on price, 10 times better than the M&M?  Imo, yes.  There is something about the andeio and Woo 6SE that transcends, to my ears, anything I have ever heard before and since.  However, if I was trying to justify the expense to my accountant, and I explained the difference, his answer would be no.
  
 So what was my reason for writing this report?  Just to say congratulations to all at Schiit for their major accomplishment with the Magni 2 and Modi 2.  For so little money, in comparison to what is available in our audio hobby, the have created two tools that accomplish higher fidelity than anything close to their price range.  Bravo and many thanks!


----------



## spykez

520ranchbro said:


> spykez said:
> 
> 
> > I just found out about the Mani, going to replace the djpre2 with it
> ...


 
 I would honestly expect the Pro-Ject to sound better but you never know, Schiit does some amazing stuff for what they charge.


----------



## thecourier

Not surprised. Schiit does things 1000x better than other manufacturers.


----------



## 520RanchBro

spykez said:


> I would honestly expect the Pro-Ject to sound better but you never know, Schiit does some amazing stuff for what they charge.


 
 It's the only phono pre I've used and I'm perfectly satisfied with it, got it for $50 with my turntable but I am curious. Might have to take the plunge for comparisons sake. I've no qualms with the Phono Box but curiosity may get the better of me.


----------



## rovopio

is it true that magni and vali sounds largely similar?
 and for average people. without nitpicking the difference, it sounds the same?
  
 i've read in passing somebody posted it on a schiit thread a couple weeks back, but i can't remember which thread or who posted it. I think the poster put up some measurements or some proof as well.
  
 Anybody have any opinions on the topic?


----------



## Xdaggersoul

rovopio said:


> is it true that magni and vali sounds largely similar?
> and for average people. without nitpicking the difference, it sounds the same?
> 
> i've read in passing somebody posted it on a schiit thread a couple weeks back, but i can't remember which thread or who posted it. I think the poster put up some measurements or some proof as well.
> ...


 
 Magni is brighter while the Vali sounds smoother.


----------



## freedom01

Hi guys,
  
 Great to join the Schiit Family ~!~!
  
 Received today. A long wait for V2 since it went into backorder status since late Dec 2014.
 The wait is worthwhile.
  
 Bifrost Uber/USB + Valhalla2


----------



## StanD

xdaggersoul said:


> Magni is brighter while the Vali sounds smoother.


 
 I see you have a Magni, but to you own a Vali?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

spykez said:


> I would honestly expect the Pro-Ject to sound better but you never know, Schiit does some amazing stuff for what they charge.


 
  
 The mani has less THD and the RIAA curve is more precise. By default it is going sound better


----------



## 520RanchBro

blackenedplague said:


> The mani has less THD and the RIAA curve is more precise. By default it is going sound better


 
 Do you have any idea if I'd need a certain tier of turntable/cartridge combo to hear that difference or would the change be noticeable with any tier of TT? My Debut Carbon has the stock 2M Red and acrylic platter.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I don't want to wait next year to get the Lyr2! I want it now! Too bad school is in the way of me getting another job just to support my audio fetish. Phoey!


----------



## scizzro

pirakaphile said:


> I don't want to wait next year to get the Lyr2! I want it now! Too bad school is in the way of me getting another job just to support my audio fetish. Phoey!


 





 I've thought the same thing. That's when you know you have it bad


----------



## Pirakaphile

scizzro said:


> I've thought the same thing. That's when you know you have it bad



I'll drop out of school and become a full-time audiophile! My parents will be so proud!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

520ranchbro said:


> Do you have any idea if I'd need a certain tier of turntable/cartridge combo to hear that difference or would the change be noticeable with any tier of TT? My Debut Carbon has the stock 2M Red and acrylic platter.


 
  
  
 while the cart makes the largest impact, if your phono pre can't correct to the curb properly, then it doesn't matter. Your setup is going to sing


----------



## 520RanchBro

blackenedplague said:


> while the cart makes the largest impact, if your phono pre can't correct to the curb properly, then it doesn't matter. Your setup is going to sing


 
 Okay I see. I'm not too knowledgeable on vinyl gear. I just bought a solid setup used and have been enjoying it. Right now my records sound as good or slightly better (more of an SQ preference than a step up in resolution) than their FLAC companions. Mostly speculation, but anyone think a Mani might push that over the top. Figured I'd at least ask before I decide to try it out.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

520ranchbro said:


> Okay I see. I'm not too knowledgeable on vinyl gear. I just bought a solid setup used and have been enjoying it. Right now my records sound as good or slightly better (more of an SQ preference than a step up in resolution) than their FLAC companions. Mostly speculation, but anyone think a Mani might push that over the top. Figured I'd at least ask before I decide to try it out.


 
  
 I love vinyl but the thing is, the only thing that has kept it alive for so long is equal parts stubbornness and separate masters. Once you get the mani, I personally don't see why you would need to squabble about playback and save your money for the vinyl itself (or make the jump to speakers+integrated amp)
  
 You could do better than a carbon+acrylic platter but you'll find the bang/buck ratio plummet not far up.
  
 My advice is to not worry so much about it. As long as you aren't tracking to heavy/too light, keep the records clean, and most of all ENJOY it, having a $xxxxx setup is pretty pointless


----------



## Sonic Defender

blackenedplague said:


> I love vinyl but the thing is, the only thing that has kept it alive for so long is equal parts stubbornness and separate masters. Once you get the mani, I personally don't see why you would need to squabble about playback and save your money for the vinyl itself (or make the jump to speakers+integrated amp)
> 
> You could do better than a carbon+acrylic platter but you'll find the bang/buck ratio plummet not far up.
> 
> My advice is to not worry so much about it. As long as you aren't tracking to heavy/too light, keep the records clean, and most of all ENJOY it, having a $xxxxx setup is pretty pointless


 

 Agreed, my brother has stubbornly kept a vinyl rig alive, and a decent one, but frankly the amount of effort in combination with the enormous amount of room and maintenance required really makes me wonder. Sure, a great vinyl rig with exceptional condition records can sound subjectively better (warmer) than a good digital rig (I know the final output is analogue), but that isn't guaranteed. Not all vinyl sounds good and believe it or not, some vinyl was mastered quite loud and shouty. I actually spoke with a very experienced recording engineer who owns a pretty solid commercial studio here and he told me he had seen vinyl kick a needle out while playing due to the amplitude of the signal. Then you get into record condition, cleaning. My brother still has our collection dating back to 1980 and man was cleaning hard to do.
  
 I still think the purported vinyl sound advantage is a tad over-simplified and sometimes exaggerated. I know I was tempted to build a rig, but the extra space alone is just not worth it too me. I agree, build an affordable vinyl rig and don't go nuts. It could be like tube rolling and forever needing a better platter, or boutique cartridge that costs what we pay for a headphone amp!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Yes there is plenty of wax out there with either poor masters in and of themselves, as well as record labels trying to make a cheap $25-$40 on cd masters with a different format. My biggest example was Massacre's Back From Beyond. I was so excited to hear it, then I compared it with the digital version and there was absolutely no difference.
  
 My thoughts of what might keep vinyl alive is the romanticism, the gathering (actually hanging out with friends rather than re-tweet bulls@#$), the really focusing on the notes, and treating music production with more love (not rushing things, not bricking the master to grab attention)
  
 Basically we need to press rewind on the tape deck WHILE looking at what was good and bad these past 20 years, and start fresh


----------



## Sonic Defender

blackenedplague said:


> Yes there is plenty of wax out there with either poor masters in and of themselves, as well as record labels trying to make a cheap $25-$40 on cd masters with a different format. My biggest example was Massacre's Back From Beyond. I was so excited to hear it, then I compared it with the digital version and there was absolutely no difference.
> 
> My thoughts of what might keep vinyl alive is the romanticism, the gathering (actually hanging out with friends rather than re-tweet bulls@#$), the really focusing on the notes, and treating music production with more love (not rushing things, not bricking the master to grab attention)
> 
> Basically we need to press rewind on the tape deck WHILE looking at what was good and bad these past 20 years, and start fresh


 

 Hard to argue with most of that sentiment. I grew aware of music back in the vinyl era, even caught the end of the 8 track era and was fully into music as a sub-culture when digital mastering began. Man were those first mastering's and DA conversion awful.


----------



## Xdaggersoul

stand said:


> I see you have a Magni, but to you own a Vali?


 
 Heard one though.


----------



## RRod

sonic defender said:


> Hard to argue with most of that sentiment. I grew aware of music back in the vinyl era, even caught the end of the 8 track era and was fully into music as a sub-culture when digital mastering began. Man were those first mastering's and DA conversion awful.


 
  
 They got better, only to then fall prey to the loudness war. Still, though, this mastering thing is, today, a cultural problem not a format problem. There are genres (e.g. classical and jazz) where it's easy to find impeccably mastered digital recordings of practically any digital vintage (I have some early 80s stuff that still sounds great, but it was the type of stuff that was cared for like a child by the engineers).


----------



## 520RanchBro

blackenedplague said:


> I love vinyl but the thing is, the only thing that has kept it alive for so long is equal parts stubbornness and separate masters. Once you get the mani, I personally don't see why you would need to squabble about playback and save your money for the vinyl itself (or make the jump to speakers+integrated amp)
> 
> You could do better than a carbon+acrylic platter but you'll find the bang/buck ratio plummet not far up.
> 
> My advice is to not worry so much about it. As long as you aren't tracking to heavy/too light, keep the records clean, and most of all ENJOY it, having a $xxxxx setup is pretty pointless


 
 Oh definitely, no plans to upgrade my vinyl rig, I love the sound and a good set of speakers for my bedroom and an amp is next on my list of audio gear purchases. Was just wondering if the MAni would even make too much of a difference with my gear because it isn't change. I listen to more digital than vinyl. I usually I like to collect my absolute favorites on vinyl, to have a physical copy and enjoy the artwork/packaging. Some sound, better, some worse, some the same and some just a bit different. I've never noticed a huge difference between vinyl/digital though.


----------



## JMikesell

Poking my head in as a new Schiit owner

For Christmas I got a Vali to go with my Q701, I've been using them almost daily but I'm still disappointed. While the detail and instrument separation is fantastic, it feels like the soundstage is gone, both length and width. The music is back in my head.
 Anybody else experience this or know what I can do?


----------



## spykez

jmikesell said:


> Poking my head in as a new Schiit owner
> 
> For Christmas I got a Vali to go with my Q701, I've been using them almost daily but I'm still disappointed. While the detail and instrument separation is fantastic, it feels like the soundstage is gone, both length and width. The music is back in my head.
> Anybody else experience this or know what I can do?




What are you using for a DAC? That can make a difference.


----------



## JMikesell

spykez said:


> What are you using for a DAC? That can make a difference.



Been using an Apple universal dock with 6th gen Classic and Nano as well as an iPhone 3g. Tried it with a PS1 too


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

520ranchbro said:


> I've never noticed a huge difference between vinyl/digital though.


 
  
  
 It will happen, I guarantee you. It may have been because the entire production was analog but there was this John Denver record that pretty much brought tears to my eyes. Absolutely beautiful.


----------



## BeatsWork

blackenedplague said:


> It will happen, I guarantee you. It may have been because the entire production was analog but there was this John Denver record that pretty much brought tears to my eyes. Absolutely beautiful.




Blackenedplague and John Denver? Did not see that coming ...


----------



## 520RanchBro

beatswork said:


> Blackenedplague and John Denver? Did not see that coming ...


 
  
 Haha nor did I!
  


blackenedplague said:


> It will happen, I guarantee you. It may have been because the entire production was analog but there was this John Denver record that pretty much brought tears to my eyes. Absolutely beautiful.


 
 Yeah there's definitely some older doom records that have masters that I prefer. Electric Wizard is all about analog recording, don't know if it continues in that way throughout the process but I notice some differences. I should have clarified and said on more modern records. 
  
 Either way, rest assured, I'm all bout having fun with it, not stressing too much about the gear. Thanks for the advice, I'm going to stick with what I have for now.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I think it a fair statement that those who gravitate to a warmer presentation in their gear will likely very much appreciate what vinyl can bring to the table. Those who like a more neutral, detail rich signature will perhaps crave the extra resolution well done digital can reveal. I can appreciate both signatures and ideally a blended approach (which is what my current rig is).


----------



## 520RanchBro

sonic defender said:


> I think it a fair statement that those who gravitate to a warmer presentation in their gear will likely very much appreciate what vinyl can bring to the table. Those who like a more neutral, detail rich signature will perhaps crave the extra resolution well done digital can reveal. I can appreciate both signatures and ideally a blended approach (which is what my current rig is).


 
 Yeah sometimes I'm in the mood to listen to vinyl, sometimes just go with the convenience of digital. I will say I don't mind cleaning records at all, I've gotten pretty quick with cleaning them on my Record Doctor, it's kind of therapeutic.
  
 To bring Schiit back in to the discussion, anyone here use the MAni and see noticeable improvements as opposed to other phono pres?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Early adopter of CD here and have played with just about every new digital format ever since but still have 10,000 LPs which I think says loads about what I consider quality...


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

beatswork said:


> Blackenedplague and John Denver? Did not see that coming ...


 
  
  
 My music taste is quite broad. You do see my avatar right? James Taylor with the Candlemass logo on top


----------



## Eee Pee

sonic defender said:


> I think it a fair statement that those who gravitate to a warmer presentation in their gear will likely very much appreciate what vinyl can bring to the table.


 
  
  
 Not really.  Such a broad statement it's not even right.


----------



## Sonic Defender

eee pee said:


> Not really.  Such a broad statement it's not even right.


 
 Read carefully before you rush into make a judgment. The key is I said "will likely", and I stand by that. Vinyl in my experience is certainly warmer so if that is true, and again, I said in my experience, not stating that as a truth for all people everywhere, it is reasonable to assume that those who like warm sound signatures would appreciate vinyl. You don't agree, no worries, everybody is different and your viewpoint is also valid.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

The only way vinyl would be warmer than digital if it was record/produced/mastered was all analog, the cartridge had a warm signature, or you fed the output through a ridiculous amount of tubes.


----------



## BeatsWork

blackenedplague said:


> My music taste is quite broad. You do see my avatar right? James Taylor with the Candlemass logo on top




Broader than mine sir and I thought I was rather eclectic!


----------



## Sonic Defender

blackenedplague said:


> The only way vinyl would be warmer than digital if it was record/produced/mastered was all analog, the cartridge had a warm signature, or you fed the output through a ridiculous amount of tubes.


 

 Fair enough, and from a technical standpoint I have no choice but to agree. Again, I would say please read my statement. I clearly have indicated this is my experience, which is true; however, my vinyl listening days were quite some time ago (80s and 90s) and quite possibly back then our system would have had a warm signature, hence my acoustic memory. So I have to admit I erred in my original statement in that I did not limit it well enough or frame it well enough, so certainly the correction is warranted. I also feel that the slight pops and ticks add to the sonic perception of warmth (at least for me) as well as the rumble that can sometimes be detected so I don't think the notion of a possible warmth being perceived is complete rubbish either.


----------



## 520RanchBro

Eclectic taste is the way to go, sometimes I want to listen to Dying Fetus and Funeral Mist and the next day it might just be Taylor Swift (I'm not kidding either) all day. Keeps music fresh and inspiring.


----------



## Sonic Defender

And on the subject of warm here is an explanation from a recording engineer who likes to call vinyl warm sounding.
  
 “If I have a wire that’s one-inch long, it takes no time for sound to travel over that wire. But in the coil in a turntable cartridge, that wire is very long and it’s wrapped around a magnet. So it takes a lot of time to get through that magnet and come out the other side. By the time it comes out, the sharpness, the ugliness has been rounded.

 “That,” says Moore, “is what people mean by warm.”
  
 Obviously this is one persons opinion, for what it is worth to you, you can read the article here. http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2014/01/31/the_rise_of_vinyl_and_why_records_sound_warm.html


----------



## Sonic Defender

I'm also curious about the vinyl experience from those here saying that the notion of warmth is incorrect. I don't mean this in a nasty way, but are any of you old enough to have actually spent hundreds of hours listening to vinyl back in the 80s and 90s? If not that might have something to do with our perception difference. It might be reasonable to assume that todays gear is less warm than the vintage solid state gear I grew up with. Perhaps not, I'm just speculating.


----------



## spykez

jmikesell said:


> spykez said:
> 
> 
> > What are you using for a DAC? That can make a difference.
> ...


 
 lol get a better quality DAC


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

sonic defender said:


> And on the subject of warm here is an explanation from a recording engineer who likes to call vinyl warm sounding.
> 
> “If I have a wire that’s one-inch long, it takes no time for sound to travel over that wire. But in the coil in a turntable cartridge, that wire is very long and it’s wrapped around a magnet. So it takes a lot of time to get through that magnet and come out the other side. By the time it comes out, the sharpness, the ugliness has been rounded.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Based on how electronics work, that is wrong. By that argument, every single cable in the chain adds identifiable color
  


sonic defender said:


> but are any of you old enough to have actually spent hundreds of hours listening to vinyl back in the 80s and 90s?


 
  
 Irrelevant. and since you posted something you read online then so will I
  
 http://mentalfloss.com/article/51704/do-records-really-sound-warmer-cds


----------



## Eee Pee

sonic defender said:


> but are any of you old enough to have actually spent hundreds of hours listening to vinyl back in the 80s and 90s?


 
 I'm 39, almost 40.  Been into vinyl since I was 17.
  
 And to say tubes are warm as generic description is BS also.


----------



## madwolfa

eee pee said:


> I'm 39, almost 40.  Been into vinyl since I was 17.
> 
> And to say tubes are warm as generic description is BS also.


 
  
 Tubes are warm. Because they glow. Checks out.


----------



## wahsmoh

madwolfa said:


> Tubes are warm. Because they glow. Checks out.




Hehe warm to the touch. It's like staring at a campfire, by the end of the night your head feels all warm and your brain feels like mush (or maybe I was inhaling smoke)

Asgard 2 sounds warmer than the Vali. I don't know it it was a bad match or what but I didn't like the Vali at all and thought the Asgard 2 swept the floor with it


----------



## spykez

wahsmoh said:


> madwolfa said:
> 
> 
> > Tubes are warm. Because they glow. Checks out.
> ...


 
 I think the Asgard 2 is just amazing lol, there's no other way to explain it. It kicks the socks off of the Little Dot MKIII I had out of the box.


----------



## Sonic Defender

eee pee said:


> I'm 39, almost 40.  Been into vinyl since I was 17.
> 
> And to say tubes are warm as generic description is BS also.


 

 Well then based on your experience I will have to admit that I'm surprised you don't feel there isn't any validity at all. I'm fine with people saying maybe the idea is overblown, or somewhat exaggerated, but it seems that you are suggesting there is zero validity to the idea that vinyl can sound warmer. Similarly to the notion that tubes can sound warmer. I have been quite forthcoming admitting that my original post on the topic was indeed too generalized to be very useful, and I do regret being so rash in that respect. It now seems you may be making the same mistake going the other way. Anyway, we will agree to disagree somewhat, and I do not want to derail the thread further so I will hush up. Thanks for the dialogue, no hard feelings there brother.


----------



## Eee Pee

No hard feelings here either.  I read it all too often and have the means to disprove the generalization.  In other words, I can make my vinyl sound bright, and I can make my tube amps bright, too.  Just a strange generalization that I don't like, I guess.


----------



## Billheiser

sonic defender said:


> And on the subject of warm here is an explanation from a recording engineer who likes to call vinyl warm sounding.
> 
> “If I have a wire that’s one-inch long, it takes no time for sound to travel over that wire. But in the coil in a turntable cartridge, that wire is very long and it’s wrapped around a magnet. So it takes a lot of time to get through that magnet and come out the other side. By the time it comes out, the sharpness, the ugliness has been rounded.
> 
> ...


 

 OMG, he may be a great recordist, but he has a ridiculous non-understanding of electricity and sound wave propagation.


----------



## Sonic Defender

billheiser said:


> OMG, he may be a great recordist, but he has a ridiculous non-understanding of electricity and sound wave propagation.


 

 I wish I was technically competent to make that determination, sadly I am not well enough versed to know if you are wrong, or he is! Ultimately it doesn't matter does it? Regardless of what this or that expert believes, the truth is sadly subjectively judged in each of our brains so all I can say is I very much enjoy music and this hobby, and even if Moore is way off base, like Sheldon, even though he made a mistake, his answer was right as far as my brain can tell. The few times I enjoy vinyl listening at my brothers place, if it is a trick or not, I still feel a warmth to what I hear. Expectation bias? Quite possibly, but I'll never know will I?


----------



## ejwiles

sonic defender said:


> I wish I was technically competent to make that determination, sadly I am not well enough versed to know if you are wrong, or he is! Ultimately it doesn't matter does it? Regardless of what this or that expert believes, the truth is sadly subjectively judged in each of our brains so all I can say is I very much enjoy music and this hobby, and even if Moore is way off base, like Sheldon, even though he made a mistake, his answer was right as far as my brain can tell. The few times I enjoy vinyl listening at my brothers place, if it is a trick or not, I still feel a warmth to what I hear. Expectation bias? Quite possibly, but I'll never know will I?


 
  
 Don't back down, I'm with you.  Whether it's something an engineer can measure, all in your head, or friction from the spinning platter warming the air in the room, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling from vinyl.  My main rig is digital, and that's where I do 90% of my listening.  I don't find it dry or clinical at all, I love it and it's easy.  There is, however, something to be said for putting on a record and simply listening - not skipping songs or surfing the internet, or posting on head-fi, but just listening.  Call it warm or whatever you want.  Your state of mind affects what you hear more than any DAC or tube ever could.


----------



## Billheiser

sonic defender said:


> I wish I was technically competent to make that determination, sadly I am not well enough versed to know if you are wrong, or he is! Ultimately it doesn't matter does it? Regardless of what this or that expert believes, the truth is sadly subjectively judged in each of our brains so all I can say is I very much enjoy music and this hobby, and even if Moore is way off base, like Sheldon, even though he made a mistake, his answer was right as far as my brain can tell. The few times I enjoy vinyl listening at my brothers place, if it is a trick or not, I still feel a warmth to what I hear. Expectation bias? Quite possibly, but I'll never know will I?


 

 He's confused and making up stuff.  The time it takes for electrons to move through a wire has nothing to do warmth in a stereo system.  I dig my vinyl too and I like good warmth in sound, it's just that his "explanation" has nothing to do with it.


----------



## UmustBKidn

sonic defender said:


> I'm also curious about the vinyl experience from those here saying that the notion of warmth is incorrect. I don't mean this in a nasty way, but are any of you old enough to have actually spent hundreds of hours listening to vinyl back in the 80s and 90s? If not that might have something to do with our perception difference. It might be reasonable to assume that todays gear is less warm than the vintage solid state gear I grew up with. Perhaps not, I'm just speculating.


 
  
 *cough* Yes. I was listening to vinyl in the 70's. Back then we just called them "Records." But that was a new idea, vinyl. I also owned an 8-track, and lots of cassette decks and tapes. I stored the first computer programs I wrote, created on a Radio Shack TRS-80, on a cassette tape deck.
  
 When I got divorced, my ex wife made off with a whole pile of our cassette collection. Once a car of mine was stolen, and when I got what was left of it back, the 8 track deck was one thing they kept.
  
 And when I was a kid, I used to record the Beatles onto a small reel-to-reel tape deck, using an AM radio as the source. I even sang along with them. Go figure.
  
 We didn't so much discuss warmth back then, as how to make records last, and how to get rid of the pop and click noise that would plague us after listening to those records for a while. In retrospect, I really wish we had found a way to protect records from physical wear. I'd love to have some of those old records back, that are irreplaceable.
  
 I would suppose that we're now discussing warmth, because we have audio gear that is so much more capable of reproducing accurate sound, than anything the average person had, 40-some years ago. Compared to the uber-accuracy of today, it might just be considered a kindness, to describe music of that era as "warm". Personally, I think the SQ of recordings 40-odd years old really suck, compared to today. Just listen to some old original Led Zeppelin, then compare it to Celebration Day. 'Nuff said.


----------



## StanD

xdaggersoul said:


> Magni is brighter while the Vali sounds smoother.


 
  
  


stand said:


> I see you have a Magni, but to you own a Vali?


 
  
  


xdaggersoul said:


> Heard one though.


 
 That's not the same as a side by side comparison. Our memory of audio details is brief and not sutiable for comparisons over time.


----------



## BeatsWork

ejwiles said:


> Don't back down, I'm with you.  Whether it's something an engineer can measure, all in your head, or friction from the spinning platter warming the air in the room, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling from vinyl.  My main rig is digital, and that's where I do 90% of my listening.  I don't find it dry or clinical at all, I love it and it's easy.  There is, however, something to be said for putting on a record and simply listening - not skipping songs or surfing the internet, or posting on head-fi, but just listening.  Call it warm or whatever you want.  Your state of mind affects what you hear more than any DAC or tube ever could.




It would be much simpler if we would admit that for many it's not "just the sound waves being produced" - it's the total experience. For some softly glowing tubes or a tangible spinning disc of vinyl is in and of itself aesthetically pleasing and if that alters your experience in a positive way that's all that really matters.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have a lot of vinyl in storage along with a couple tables.  Warm is not a word that comes to mind when I think of them though.  It was a different experience for sure.  Lots of work cleaning records, static guns, along with cartridge swapping and aligning that comes with that.  Without setting one up again and finding same for same recordings ie vinyl vs digital, I can't make an absolute comparison.  Auditory memory is short.  It doesn't really matter too much to me because I really enjoy my digital rigs.  Some day for schiits and giggles I might set one up, but I'm not rushing out to do it.


----------



## Sonic Defender

ejwiles said:


> Don't back down, I'm with you.  Whether it's something an engineer can measure, all in your head, or friction from the spinning platter warming the air in the room, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling from vinyl.  My main rig is digital, and that's where I do 90% of my listening.  I don't find it dry or clinical at all, I love it and it's easy.  There is, however, something to be said for putting on a record and simply listening - not skipping songs or surfing the internet, or posting on head-fi, but just listening.  Call it warm or whatever you want.  Your state of mind affects what you hear more than any DAC or tube ever could.


 

 Thanks brother, I was out here in the wilderness!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sonic defender said:


> Thanks brother, I was out here in the wilderness!


 

 OK, have been away from this Thread too long. Of course you are absolutely correct about the sonic advantages of vinyl over digital. How effective are engineers at measuring the presentation of musics "soul", the gestalt of what the artist intended. They just need to read Neil Young's thoughts on digital versus analogue/vinyl. Digital is for convenience, people are spending thousands and now hundreds of thousands in the vain attempt to get their digital rigs to sound as good as their vinyl ones.
  
 Keep fighting the good fight, Bro!


----------



## RRod

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, have been away from this Thread too long. Of course you are absolutely correct about the sonic advantages of vinyl over digital. How effective are engineers at measuring the presentation of musics "soul", the gestalt of what the artist intended. They just need to read Neil Young's thoughts on digital versus analogue/vinyl. Digital is for convenience, people are spending thousands and now hundreds of thousands in the vain attempt to get their digital rigs to sound as good as their vinyl ones.
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight, Bro!


 
  
 Actually we're not. I can spend a few hundred bucks and get all the DAC and amp I'd ever need for digital and not worry about any equipment maintenance, then spend the money where it counts on transducers. I mean, cmon, you're on a thread dedicated to a company that puts out exactly the kind of high quality, low-priced gear that destroys this "expensive digital" myth.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> OK, have been away from this Thread too long. Of course you are absolutely correct about the sonic advantages of vinyl over digital. How effective are engineers at measuring the presentation of musics "soul", the gestalt of what the artist intended. They just need to read Neil Young's thoughts on digital versus analogue/vinyl. Digital is for convenience, people are spending thousands and now hundreds of thousands in the vain attempt to get their digital rigs to sound as good as their vinyl ones.
> 
> Keep fighting the good fight, Bro!


 
 One might ask how effective are different people at measuring/quantifying what they hear and not be subject to suggestion and/or the social aspects of posting? One doesn't have to spend a ton of money to exceed the human thresholds of perception, unless they want to. Do what makes you happy.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

rrod said:


> Actually we're not. I can spend a few hundred bucks and get all the DAC and amp I'd ever need for digital and not worry about any equipment maintenance, then spend the money where it counts on transducers. I mean, cmon, you're on a thread dedicated to a company that puts out exactly the kind of high quality, low-priced gear that destroys this "expensive digital" myth.




Though they make a step up device and are about to launch an expensive (for them) DAC that is a step toward too more analogue like sound . I am very happy with my Schiit Stack and digital audio, it is far more user friendly. I also very much enjoy vinyl in my main setup. I love music, no matter the source, I enjoy each digital/analogue in their turn. I know you have fantastic taste in classical music, enjoy your collection in the format of preference.

Cheers!


----------



## RRod

wildcatsare1 said:


> Though they make a step up device and are about to launch an expensive (for them) DAC that is a step toward too more analogue like sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Companies gotta make money somehow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Plus engineers do care about specs and, I hope, take pride in making the bestest spectest gear around, even if the differences are inaudible. And indeed, to each his own.


----------



## Baldr

OK everybody – I am in the middle of a lot right now but am driven to comment on “warm” “cold” or whatever adjective anyone chooses to subjectively describe what they hear. Everyone is entitled to their subjective universe. They can be expected to describe their experiences in a way that is real to them. What is right for them may well be BS to another. Also, we are all entitled to our own constructs to argue our own subjective cases, for example electrons taking more time to transverse a coil than a straight piece of wire. This is not wrong to the author; an objective environment, however is far different.
  
 Much of this subjectivity overlaid on a discussion/debate of analog (turntables) vs. digital recording playback systems. This is complicated by case to case differences. Is the record (vinyl) a digital recording? Is the digital track or file been converted to digital from analog? Etc., etc., etc.............??? Too many permutations and combinations to arrive at any generalizations.
  
 What are the main important differences? Analog is a continuous recording over time, and digital is a sampled, dot to dot recording, which requires reconstruction (no such reconstruction required in analog) upon playback, by information theory rules which primarily live in the *frequency domain *(emphasis mine). That is why I also utilize time domain (positional) reconstruction methods in the Yggy. To give digital its significant due, there is a huge (at least 20+db) advantage in signal to noise ratio in digital recording and playback devices.
  
 Now that is not to say that the frequency domain (response) is not important. A friend of mine back in the 1970's, John Koval, used to argue that the only audible differences between any two pieces of audio gear was due to frequency response (domain). He is the exact reason that the Mani has an extremely accurate RIAA response in 2015. It was his position that all amplifiers essentially sounded alike because of their relatively flat frequency responses. John constructed an A/B sound comparison box that matched levels to blindly compare two amplifiers.
  
 Now it was very difficult for me to tell the difference between two amplifiers when they were switched back and forth, particularly when they were precisely level matched (even tube vs. solid state). This was really messing with my manufacturing better sounding amps and preamps. In fact, if all of this Schiit really sounded the same, why was I in the audio biz?? Why was there a market for audio gear, audio shows, etc., etc?? Are audio industry skeptics like Douglas Self really right? Is a 5534 op-amp really unbeatable?
  
 So I built one of those A/B boxes with a remote push-button to switch between two amps, preamps, whatever. No matter what I did, I couldn't tell any differences switching back and forth. Quickly I learned that I was not comfortably listening in an interval based switcher. If I listened to an entire LP side or analog series of tracks (an early playlist) on one amp and then the same stuff on the next amp............. I could easily and consistently tell the difference!! I demonstrated it to John and he was amazed. I won plenty of bets with other audiophiles. So it seems that audio listening is an integral, as opposed to differential process.
  
 Now this is not to say that our industry has not been blighted by grifters. I will not be in line to buy dog spooge loaded equipment racks due to the amazing hearing ability of canines. But I will add parts per million as opposed to parts per thousand voltage coefficient resistors to my better products because I, for one believe they can sound better. One day, perhaps we will know the precise threshold of the human ear/brain's sensitivity, whether we call it “warm” “flat” or even “curly”.


----------



## SuperU

Just wanted to say that I finally got the cable that allows me to connect my Bifrost Uber to my powered speakers.
  
 It sounds really good. And the Schiit stack works great with my headphones and speakers combined.
  
 Now I'm really wanting the new Yaggdrasil (sp?) and Ragnarok.


----------



## freedom01

Hey guys, would like to check with you on the following.
  
 The Bifrost user manual front page shows that the revision is "E".
 However, at the back of the Bifrost, there isn't any indication showing it is "SCH04-E or SCH04E".
 Mine was SCH04.
  
 Is it because 230VAC version is non-E ?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Sonic Defender

I'm also waiting on Yggy! Love my Gungnir for sure, but signature Schiit gear is hard not to consider. I appreciate the attention to detail in the Schiit house sound and the experience with good analogue stages shows. After all, the final product we hear is analogue. Not to jab a finger into an open wound, but for the record I do not maintain a vinyl rig, and I haven't since the 90s. My brother still does and that is where from time to time I listen to vinyl. Personally, I feel that I prefer digital as the accuracy is instrumental; and with well mastered material and a well thought out system any of the pitfalls of digital (if you accept them to be true) are mitigated greatly or virtually eliminated.
  
 The last time I hung out with my brother he put on the last Depeche Mode album through his vinyl rig and it was really, really nice. I'm personally glad that vinyl has not been extinguished just yet as that ties my present to my past and a trip down memory lane every once in a while is a great thing, if not a little sad. Getting older does suck on some levels, but I'm still young enough to have good hearing which is merciful. I dread losing that.


----------



## Mr Rick

Greetings everyone. I'm new to the forum and perhaps the newest member of the Vali admiration society. I ordered mine on Friday and received it on Saturday ( How is that for service?) I'm in the process of evaluating my new toy and I wonder if it will get even better with a few days use. 
  
 I'm rather new to headphone amplifiers and my only means of comparison is a A / B test with a Bravo Audio Ocean that I have had for a few weeks. So far I hear little difference between the two. That is not a bad thing as I am very pleased with the little Class A Bravo Ocean. The cost of each amp is nearly the same and each have slightly different features. But a sonic comparison reveals very little difference. At least so far.
  
 I'm listening with a pair of Sennheiser HD 598s and one of the things I have noticed is that the Vali has a lower output as compared to the Bravo Audio Ocean, when using the same line level input. My input is currently the variable output of my TV / monitor as driven from a Roku box. I'll be trying a fixed level line input this week and I'll also probably be updating to a Schiit DAC in the near future.
  
 I'm currently doing a little experiment. I'm driving the Vali using the preamp outputs of the Bravo Audio Ocean. This allows me to achieve loudness levels that I will seldom exceed, and both units have their gain controls set to no more then the 12 o'clock position. 
  
 On the horizon is a pair of Sennheiser HD 650s as well as a Schiit Valhalla 2, that will be arriving this week. I'm looking forward to lots of mix and match comparisons in the future.
  
 Stay tuned.
  
 Rick


----------



## MWSVette

mr rick said:


> Greetings everyone. I'm new to the forum and perhaps the newest member of the Vali admiration society. I ordered mine on Friday and received it on Saturday ( How is that for service?) I'm in the process of evaluating my new toy and I wonder if it will get even better with a few days use.
> 
> I'm rather new to headphone amplifiers and my only means of comparison is a A / B test with a Bravo Audio Ocean that I have had for a few weeks. So far I hear little difference between the two. That is not a bad thing as I am very pleased with the little Class A Bravo Ocean. The cost of each amp is nearly the same and each have slightly different features. But a sonic comparison reveals very little difference. At least so far.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome to the club...


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> Greetings everyone. I'm new to the forum and perhaps the newest member of the Vali admiration society. I ordered mine on Friday and received it on Saturday ( How is that for service?) I'm in the process of evaluating my new toy and I wonder if it will get even better with a few days use.
> 
> I'm rather new to headphone amplifiers and my only means of comparison is a A / B test with a Bravo Audio Ocean that I have had for a few weeks. So far I hear little difference between the two. That is not a bad thing as I am very pleased with the little Class A Bravo Ocean. The cost of each amp is nearly the same and each have slightly different features. But a sonic comparison reveals very little difference. At least so far.
> 
> ...


 
 I doubt that the Vali requires any preamping, if the Bravo preamp is active you will only add more noise and distortion. I wouldn't judge by the position of the volume pot (potentiometer) as that can vary due to gain as well as the different pots having different tapers.
 Don't be fooled by the description of the Bravo, it is a hybrid (SS output stage), not a pure Class A tube amp.


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> I doubt that the Vali requires any preamping, if the Bravo preamp is active you will only add more noise and distortion. I wouldn't judge by the position of the volume pot (potentiometer) as that can vary due to gain as well as the different pots having different tapers.
> Don't be fooled by the description of the Bravo, it is a hybrid (SS output stage), not a pure Class A tube amp.


 
  
 I think my only "problem " is having a variable line level and having concerns about over driving the input of the Vali. Obviously more experimentation is necessary. That is the fun of it. No?
  
 I think I'll try the fixed line output of my CD player directly into the Vali. That should give me a better indication of the usable gain of the Vali.


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> I think my only "problem " is having a variable line level and having concerns about over driving the input of the Vali. Obviously more experimentation is necessary. That is the fun of it. No?


 
 Experimenting is not a bad thing as one can learn all sorts of things along the way. That's not a bad concern as overdriving can lead to a reduced dynamic range if any clipping/overloading occurs on peaks.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> Experimenting is not a bad thing as one can learn all sorts of things along the way. That's not a bad concern as overdriving can lead to a reduced dynamic range if any clipping/overloading occurs on peaks.


 
  
 how many weeks has it been since my uber arrived? i think it's less than the 3 weeks i waited for the _domestic airport handling_.
 anyway, at this juncture i completely regret buying the uber.
 Considering the taxes and wait times, I should have just bought the valhalla 2 and call it a day.
  
 anybody in asia that have valhalla 2 that they want to sell?


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> how many weeks has it been since my uber arrived? i think it's less than the 3 weeks i waited for the _domestic airport handling_.
> anyway, at this juncture i completely regret buying the uber.
> Considering the taxes and wait times, I should have just bought the valhalla 2 and call it a day.
> 
> anybody in asia that have valhalla 2 that you want to sell?


 
 Is there something wrong with the Uber? Or is it just the process of getting it that's ticking you off? Keep in mind, if you need to drive low impedance cans that need a bit of power, the Valhalla 2 might not fit that bill. I was interested in that amp, however, since I have an HE-500 that I use a lot, I decided against it. Besides it looks to be a very clean tube amp and might not deliver enough harmonic distortion to give that tube sound. I actually prefer clean, but I have enough SS amps to fill that need.


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> Experimenting is not a bad thing as one can learn all sorts of things along the way. That's not a bad concern as overdriving can lead to a reduced dynamic range if any clipping/overloading occurs on peaks.


 
  
 My concerns about over driving the Vali were unfounded. Using the fixed line outputs of CD / DVD player the Vali now provides ear shattering, clean signal, with the gain control at no more then 12 o'clock. I'll be keeping things in this configuration until I can acquire a DAC. I think I'll start with a basic Schitt Modi 2. Do you think this will be a good match Stan?
  
 Thanks for your input and help.
  
 Rick


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> Is there something wrong with the Uber? Or is it just the process of getting it that's ticking you off? Keep in mind, if you need to drive low impedance cans that need a bit of power, the Valhalla 2 might not fit that bill. I was interested in that amp, however, since I have an HE-500 that I use a lot, I decided against it. Besides it looks to be a very clean tube amp and might not deliver enough harmonic distortion to give that tube sound. I actually prefer clean, but I have enough SS amps to fill that need.


 
  
 i'm too satisfied with it i should have bought as much as i could afford.
 That and paying the customs $140 annoyed me a little bit.
  
 i mean, $149 + $100 Fedex handling fees + $40 tax and $349 + $140 feels a lot different right?
  
 *though to be fair, it might not be $140 anymore. If it's $40 per $149, then $349 will be $93 in tax. so $349 + $100 Fedex + $93 tax.
 So... $149 + _$140_ vs. $349 + _$193_. Should have opt for the latter... Not to mention the shipping cost is almost the same between the two.
 The extra fees are too much for getting the uber, and but it's not that big a jump to get the valhalla 2.
  
 Now if i get the ragnarok, probably doesn't worth the customs fee. (not that i could afford it either).
  
 ------------------
 i'm getting the hd650 soon. Well you and madwolfa and (this other person whose username i can't remember _pirakaphile_?) probably knows that by soon i mean a month or so from now. haha.
  
 Anyway, both hd650 and he-400i cost the same $640. and i feel extremely dumb if i shell $640 for hd650, considering deals on Adorama, Amazon and the likes.
  
 What kind of amp should i consider for planar magnetic headphone?
 I heard that he-400i is designed to be somewhat efficient enough to be driven to a listenable level from a cellphone?
 How does a solid-state amp like magni 2 uber will fare and what kind of amp i should consider if in the end i get the he-400i?


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> My concerns about over driving the Vali were unfounded. Using the fixed line outputs of CD / DVD player the Vali now provides ear shattering, clean signal, with the gain control at no more then 12 o'clock. I'll be keeping things in this configuration until I can acquire a DAC. I think I'll start with a basic Schitt Modi 2. Do you think this will be a good match Stan?
> 
> Thanks for your input and help.
> 
> Rick


 
 The Modi 2 should be just fine. I own both a fully loaded Bifrost as a Modi 2 Uber.
 I find that the Modi 2 Uber is superb, I can't believe what one gets for its price.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> The Modi 2 should be just fine. I own both a fully loaded Bifrost as a Modi 2 Uber.
> I find that the Modi 2 Uber is superb, I can't believe what one gets for its price.


 
 +1
 it's got to be the best( the best) sounding in this price range, and i haven't heard them all, but i've heard quite a few


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> The Modi 2 should be just fine. I own both a fully loaded Bifrost as a Modi 2 Uber.
> I find that the Modi 2 Uber is superb, I can't believe what one gets for its price.


 
 Great, thanks,
  
 I think I'll start with the basic Modi 2 and investigate further after I take off my DAC training wheels. LOL


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> i'm too satisfied with it i should have bought as much as i could afford.
> That and paying the customs $140 annoyed me a little bit.
> 
> i mean, $149 + $100 Fedex handling fees + $40 tax and $349 + $140 feels a lot different right?
> ...


 
 I can't say how efficent the HE-400i is, OK, I just looked it up. It's 93 dB/mW at 35 Ohms.
 The Magni 2 Uber should be able to drive it rather well.
 You might get it to limp along on a cellphone, but I wouldn't expect it to get loud or deliver enough headroom.
 The Valhalla 2 will do better but at around 180 mW it's not going to be optimal as 115.6 db can be expected at 180 mW. For many people that might be enough, you will have to decide for yourself.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> I can't say how efficent the HE-400i is, OK, I just looked it up. It's 93 dB/mW at 35 Ohms.
> *The Magni 2 Uber should be able to drive it rather well.*
> You might get it to limp along on a cellphone, but I wouldn't expect it to get loud or deliver enough headroom.
> The Valhalla 2 will do better but at around 180 mW it's not going to be optimal as 115.6 db can be expected at 180 mW. For many people that might be enough, you will have to decide for yourself.


 
 it drives it VERY well, i'm listening to that combo right now, and the modi 2u


----------



## rovopio

jaywillin said:


> it drives it VERY well, i'm listening to that combo right now, and the modi 2u


 
  
 I'll be getting either hd650 or he-400i and drive it w/ my uber.
  
 when i took shower just now, i think after getting either of the two, i'll be selling the dt880 premium as it is too dry for my preference. Which is weird considering dt880 premium and pro _should _have sound the same according to people's reports and my own readings.
  
 Yet i listened to dt880 pro today for a very short while, and the pro is better with female vocals. Significantly not _dry _at all. Went home, plugged in my dt880 premium, yes it still sounds dry. Probably listening bias.
  
 I'm not sure whether i can sell dt880 premium locally, (since people seems to like bassy headphone better), but i might not need them completely when i get the hd650 / he-400i.
 Even now i listen to my ma-900 far more than the dt880 since most of my songs are mainly female vocals and guitars. If i manage to sell them at a decent price, probably will snatch another grado from the funds, im not sure.
  
 So the main headphone would be the hd650 or he-400i, but i'll still have a grado for once in a week 1 hour listening.
  
 It's probably dumb considering my inner ear condition, but what can i say, i love grado sound.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

baldr said:


> Now that is not to say that the frequency domain (response) is not important. A friend of mine back in the 1970's, John Koval, used to argue that the only audible differences between any two pieces of audio gear was due to frequency response (domain). He is the exact reason that the Mani has an extremely accurate RIAA response in 2015. It was his position that all amplifiers essentially sounded alike because of their relatively flat frequency responses. John constructed an A/B sound comparison box that matched levels to blindly compare two amplifiers.


 
  
 The more accurate the RIAA curve, the better. I really appreciate that you got it so close, along with having such a minute amount of distortion


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I can't say how efficent the HE-400i is, OK, I just looked it up. It's 93 dB/mW at 35 Ohms.
> The Magni 2 Uber should be able to drive it rather well.
> You might get it to limp along on a cellphone, but I wouldn't expect it to get loud or deliver enough headroom.
> The Valhalla 2 will do better but at around 180 mW it's not going to be optimal as 115.6 db can be expected at 180 mW. For many people that might be enough, you will have to decide for yourself.


 
  
 the flash lessons you madwolfa and pirakaphile gave me a couple weeks ago. You said _High Impedance headphones require a greater voltage swing. _
 I didn't ask back then, which spec on amps listing and on the headphone listing i should read that could give me an idea how much voltage swing the amp can give and the headphone will need?
  
 say in this case, the hd650 and the magni 2 uber...
  
 edit: i know that you also said a good SS amp can provide both voltage and current. i'm just curious to learn more...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> the flash lessons you madwolfa and pirakaphile gave me a couple weeks ago. You said _High Impedance headphones require a greater voltage swing. _
> I didn't ask back then, which spec on amps listing and on the headphone listing i should read that could give me an idea how much voltage swing the amp can give and the headphone will need?
> 
> say in this case, the hd650 and the magni 2 uber...
> ...


 
 HD650 sensitivity is 103dB/VRMS at 1 kHz which is 97.8 dB/mW.
 To reach the threshold of pain (120 dBSPL) you will need 167mW which is about 7VRMS at the HD650's 300 Ohm impedance.
 The Magni 2 Uber can crank out 320mW at 300 Ohms which will bleed your ears to 122.8 dBSPL.This is continuous not an over inflated peak measurment,
 The non Uber version can crank out 260mW at 300 Ohms for just under 122 dbSPL.
 I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference, if turned up to max, either will result in a painful experience.
  
 The VRMS specs for the HD650 can be found on Sennheiser's website, I converted that to dB/mW. The specs for max power at impedance can be found on Schiit's website. The rest is basic Electircal Engineering math, no calculus.
 If an amp can deliver the power required at a given impedance (of your headphones) that would mean that it can deliver both the current as well as voltage to meet that. Below are some links for some online dB calculators, some of which include the equations and links to more info. The trick is to use one of the calculators or equations to figure out how to convert the headphone sensitivity into the mW at a high level around 120 dB lets say and see what an amp can do.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db.htm
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-gainloss.htm
http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Decibels-Calculator.phtml
http://www.crownaudio.com/db-power.htm


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> HD650 sensitivity is 103dB/VRMS at 1 kHz which is 97.8 dB/mW.
> To reach the threshold of pain (120 dBSPL) you will need 167mW which is about 7VRMS at the HD650's 300 Ohm impedance.\


 
  
 oh by the way, about the SYS, after some readings and asking arounds, i got a workaround for my low-level listening with very low impedance headphone situation...
  
 so, all my stuffs are 16 bit / 44.1khz CD...
 I just set the windows properties to 24 bit basically. and i received an explanation that i.e.
 When i set it to 16 bits at 100% on windows the sample for example say... *0000111100101101*
 The same sample if i turn it down to 25% then i'll get: *0000001111001011* (the last *01* is lost)
  
 I understand now that the same 16 bits when the DAC is set to 24 bits it will goes *000011110010110100000000*
 and on windows if i turn it down to 25% it'll be *000000111100101101000000* (i didn't lose anything, it just moved down two zeroes)
 On top of that, i can set my windows volume to 6-8% or 10% now and not losing any data.
  
 Not exactly buying anything, and probably not optimal, but i can use the magni 2 uber at 9 o'clock just fine now with my 12 ohm headphone...
  
 -----
 i actually have one more question to ask, is there any effect to sound for this modi 2's particular spec... Maximum Output: 1.5V RMS  ?
 For fiio e10k, i tried to find the exact same spec but i couldn't find it on their documentation. The closest i could find is Max output voltage : 7.39 Vp-p..
  
 Is the two comparable? The fiio one needs to be converted to be directly comparable to modi 2 spec or something?
 and what does a dedicated DAC maximum output do for the audio chain and will it noticeably affect sound?


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> oh by the way, about the SYS, after some readings and asking arounds, i got a workaround for my low-level listening with very low impedance headphone situation...
> 
> so, all my stuffs are 16 bit / 44.1khz CD...
> I just set the windows properties to 24 bit basically. and i received an explanation that i.e.
> ...


 
 7.39/2 *.707 = 2.61 VRMS which is +4.8 dB above 1.5 VRMS
 However, you are drawing the wrong conclusions. The FiiO E1 is an DAC/Amp and that number is for the output of the Amp section, The Modi is a DAC which requires an amp to complete the audio chain.


----------



## Yummerzzz

My new (almost useless as I only have IEMs until the 6th, HP150 here I come) Schiit Stack


----------



## spykez

If it's new it should be the Magni 2, in which there's a low gain switch on the back for use with IEMs


----------



## RRod

[redacted]


----------



## Yummerzzz

spykez said:


> If it's new it should be the Magni 2, in which there's a low gain switch on the back for use with IEMs




New in the sense I just bought it, its actually all second hand!

The gain works surprisingly well OOB, with no hiss (or much less) than the CmoyBB I hard before.

EDIT : Just to clarify this isn't FOR iems, its for my HP150's I'm going to buy, it just works well with the IEMS.

Going from the K550's > MA750s > Fidelio X1's > Dunu DN1000's > t10i's, I'm hoping the 150 is the can I'm looking for, will most likely purchase a Beyer can, HD650/HD600 or HE400 later also.


----------



## hifi nub

What does HYBRID mean for the lyr2?
  
 And does the tubes get used while in preamp mode for the lyr2?


----------



## SuperU

hifi nub said:


> What does HYBRID mean for the lyr2?
> 
> And does the tubes get used while in preamp mode for the lyr2?


 
 That it is both a tube and solid-state amp. It combines both, thus, it is called a hybrid.


----------



## freddy1201

hifi nub said:


> What does HYBRID mean for the lyr2?
> 
> And does the tubes get used while in preamp mode for the lyr2?




Yeah, the tubes get used but it's about 5000 hours of use and it's cheap to replace


----------



## spykez

yummerzzz said:


> spykez said:
> 
> 
> > If it's new it should be the Magni 2, in which there's a low gain switch on the back for use with IEMs
> ...


 
 HP150 you say?
  

  
 I mean, if you can get your audio stuff to work on it great but...can't see how you're going to get USB support or anything to work on that thing.


----------



## Kapazza

*BLACK* Valhalla (original, not 2) for sale again!  $279.  Grab it while you can... http://schiit.com/products/valhalla


----------



## spykez

:O dat price though
  Ugh....do I keep my Asgard 2 or do the 15 day return on it and get that asgard........
  
 damn....it....


----------



## money4me247

Black Bifrost (New & B-stock in all configurations) are available on Schitt's website. BlackValhalla 1 also available.


----------



## Rem0o

A black stack is so tempting....


----------



## Guidostrunk

WOW. they even have the black lyr. So tempted to grab one. Thanks for the post. 





kapazza said:


> *BLACK* Valhalla (original, not 2) for sale again!  $279.  Grab it while you can... http://schiit.com/products/valhalla


----------



## money4me247

freedom01 said:


> Currently using the silverstone headphone stand.
> The aluminum material matches the headphone and my schiit (bifrost uber + valhalla2 pending arrival).
> In case anyone is interested, here is the link to the stand http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=490&area=en
> 
> Can't wait to fire them up.


 
@freedom01
  
 could you post height measurements of the stand? just curious what headphones will fit on these. thanks!


----------



## spykez

money4me247 said:


> freedom01 said:
> 
> 
> > Currently using the silverstone headphone stand.
> ...


 
  
 Oh wow...it finally came out!! Now I don't have to pay so much for the Woo Audio one.
  

*Product Dimensions: *8.6 x 6 x 11 inches ; 3 pounds

 http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-EBA01-Aluminum-Headphone/dp/B00KONCCNG


----------



## madwolfa

kapazza said:


> *BLACK* Valhalla (original, not 2) for sale again!  $279.  Grab it while you can... http://schiit.com/products/valhalla


 
  
 Also Black Bifrost.
  
 http://schiit.com/products/bifrost-b-stockblack


----------



## rovopio

i was wondering why schiit black version aren't popular (based on reading Schiit chapters thread)... Now i know why. the volume pot is white.
 Well, different strokes for different folks i guess.


----------



## spykez

I think I heard something about it as being a mistake, it was all supposed to be black but the company forgot to paint the knobs?


----------



## Rem0o

spykez said:


> I think I heard something about it as being a mistake, it was all supposed to be black but the company forgot to paint the knobs?


 
 Only the metal guy messed up. I suppose the pot doesn't come from the same supplier.


----------



## David Aldrich

I'm not sure how durable a painted knob would be with constant usage. Some contrast doesn't look bad to me. I'd say it is just as well a design choice as anything else.


----------



## mikey1964

I'm going bonkers, beside the three cans I'd be getting next week, I've ordered some tubes to roll....three pairs of tubes, a pair of Telefunken, RCA and Amperex, might as well have some symmetry.
  
 Edit - Oh yeah, grabbed a Vali from a local forum member while I was at it, should get it at about the same time I'd be getting my cans next week.


----------



## Sniperboy

Thanks for the heads up on the B stocks.
 As with most things, given a little time it should appreciate in value.


----------



## cspirou

hifi nub said:


> What does HYBRID mean for the lyr2?
> 
> And does the tubes get used while in preamp mode for the lyr2?




Amps usually have two steps of amplification. The first stage is a preamp stage to increase the signal voltage and the second stage is a power stage to supply the signal with current. Vacuum tubes amps are known for low current draws but fine at producing high voltages. For this reason the second stage is replaced by transistors to power the circuit.

The preamp output should just be a redirection of the headphone output towards the RCA jacks. Using a headphone to rca adapter (if it exists) should produce an identical signal to the preamp out.


----------



## UmustBKidn

baldr said:


> ...





> One day, perhaps we will know the precise threshold of the human ear/brain's sensitivity, whether we call it “warm” “flat” or even “curly”.


 
  
 Nice post, Mike. I spent most of my youth playing in the band in school (thats back when schools actually had music programs and could afford instruments). The highlight of that was my first year in college, when I played with a university marching band. Personally, there is nothing quite like playing a tune with 240 other people in the middle of a football field.
  
 Now, what that band sounded like while out on the field, was different than what it sounded like to the people listening in the stands - even though everyone was listening to the same group of people, the distances involved were different. On the field, you heard the people within 20 feet of you the best. In the stands, you heard the combination of all the instruments much better - it sounded more complete.
  
 Without getting into a long dissertation, I tend to characterize "warm" music as that which emphasizes midrange frequencies. That may be overly simplistic, but its the closest I can get. Some people like music with bass frequencies emphasized (I hear those cars on the street every day, with so much bass response, the windows are rattling out of the frame). Other people prefer brass instruments, like my example above - those might be called "brassy?!" So perhaps the concept of tonality comes from trying to describe the timbre of a type of music - as much as trying to describe a quality of sound. And those with preferences of a different type, would probably describe different music using their favorite frame of reference (which doesn't make this any easier).
  
 So don't feel bad. Honestly sir, regardless of our personal preferences, you and Jason have done us all a great service by producing sound with a certain level of honesty that only picky people like us can really appreciate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And that accuracy lets us have interesting discussions like this!


----------



## UmustBKidn

spykez said:


> HP150 you say?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, if you can get your audio stuff to work on it great but...can't see how you're going to get USB support or anything to work on that thing.


 
  
 ^ LOL. You sir, win 1000 internets for that picture.


----------



## UmustBKidn

mr rick said:


> Greetings everyone. I'm new to the forum and perhaps the newest member of the Vali admiration society. I ordered mine on Friday and received it on Saturday ( How is that for service?) I'm in the process of evaluating my new toy and I wonder if it will get even better with a few days use.
> 
> I'm rather new to headphone amplifiers and my only means of comparison is a A / B test with a Bravo Audio Ocean that I have had for a few weeks. So far I hear little difference between the two. That is not a bad thing as I am very pleased with the little Class A Bravo Ocean. The cost of each amp is nearly the same and each have slightly different features. But a sonic comparison reveals very little difference. At least so far.
> 
> ...


 
  
 As the owner of two Bravo V2's, which are quite similar to the Ocean, I'm going to suggest that you not try connecting them like that. I would personally hate to blow out a perfectly good Vali using a cheap Bravo amp. Louder does not equal better. In particular, if your Vali seems to be running warm at all, I'd avoid that configuration.
  
 My Magni (a similar but solid state amp) runs fine (and fairly cool) with a 1.5 volt line input from my Modi DAC. I have also driven it with a 2 volt line out from a different DAC, but the amp runs considerably warmer with just a 1/2 volt increase. I would certainly not want to drive it any harder than that.
  
 That being said, Schiit gear is built pretty solid. So it can probably take some abuse. Still, I'm not sure I'd want to abuse it like that. Just 'sayin.


----------



## money4me247

umustbkidn said:


> As the owner of two Bravo V2's, which are quite similar to the Ocean, I'm going to suggest that you not try connecting them like that. I would personally hate to blow out a perfectly good Vali using a cheap Bravo amp. Louder does not equal better. In particular, if your Vali seems to be running warm at all, I'd avoid that configuration.
> 
> My Magni (a similar but solid state amp) runs fine (and fairly cool) with a 1.5 volt line input from my Modi DAC. I have also driven it with a 2 volt line out from a different DAC, but the amp runs considerably warmer with just a 1/2 volt increase. I would certainly not want to drive it any harder than that.
> 
> That being said, Schiit gear is built pretty solid. So it can probably take some abuse. Still, I'm not sure I'd want to abuse it like that. Just 'sayin.


 
  
 +1
  
@Mr Rick,
  
 "double amping" is not recommended. not only does it introduce a greater potential to destroy your headphones, you also introduce noise & distortion of both amplifiers into the chain. There connecting two amplifiers together generally results in lesser sonic quality than just using one. It is fine for experimentation, but for daily usage, I also will not recommend that sort of configuration.


----------



## Edwii

It's been hard finding an answer to this:  
  
 I just ordered a NOS modi 1 and saved $20  over a modi 2....
 is the modi 2 worth the $20? 
 Should I cancel the order quickly get the the modi 2 instead?
 and Why?


----------



## StanD

sniperboy said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the B stocks.
> As with most things, given a little time it should appreciate in value.


 
 Yeah, the more you listen to it the more you appreiate it.


----------



## money4me247

edwii said:


> It's been hard finding an answer to this:
> 
> I just ordered a NOS modi 1 and saved $20  over a modi 2....
> is the modi 2 worth the $20?
> ...


 
  
 doesn't really matter. I think the schiit official response is that if you need the extra ouputs of the Modi 2 Uber, get that. Modi 2 Uber has a new "better" analog stage as well, but how significant of a sonic difference that will make is difficult to say.
  
 quote from Jason, CEO of Schiit:


> *Modi 2. *All-new USB asynchronous DAC with switchable USB Class 1 and Class 2 modes. USB Class 1 remains driverless for all supported computers, USB Class 2 adds 24/192 capability, but requires drivers for Windows. $99.
> 
> *Modi 2 Uber.* All-new USB, optical, and coaxial three-input DAC running full USB Class 2 for 24/192 capability through all inputs. Essentially a mini Bifrost. AC linear power supply with included 8VA wall transformer. Aluminum pushbutton and top chassis. $149.


 
  
 I believe the Modi one does not support 24/192 sampling rates & may not have async usb.
USB: 16/44.1 to 24/96, including 24/88.2
from Schiit Website
 
Upgrade if you need any of the specific additional features or if $20 is worth it in your for the peace of mind from having a newer version. You will not find any real objective comparisons of sonic differences. There will be people who say that it sounds the same or sounds massively improved. Hard to say what experience you will have.


----------



## Edwii

money4me247 said:


> doesn't really matter. I think the schiit official response is that if you need the extra ouputs of the Modi 2 Uber, get that. Modi 2 Uber has a new "better" analog stage as well, but how significant of a sonic difference that will make is difficult to say.
> 
> quote from Jason, CEO of Schiit:
> 
> ...


 

 This is the one thing I hate about the Audiophile life, it's so subjective. Far too many "shades of gray".   I like 1's and 0's not 1,2,3,4,5,etc. 
  
 The only thing I heard that "might" be a concern for modi vs modi2 is a couple times people said that modi1 is a bit brighter... but I wasn't sure if that was vs mod2 or uber... 
  
 I guess I'll live with the modi1; the $20 might be worth the peace of mind, but dealing with customer suport right before an order is about to ship is not lol.


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> doesn't really matter. I think the schiit official response is that if you need the extra ouputs of the Modi 2 Uber, get that. Modi 2 Uber has a new "better" analog stage as well, but how significant of a sonic difference that will make is difficult to say.
> 
> quote from Jason, CEO of Schiit:
> 
> ...


 
 Read more carefully, there is the expert mode and if on Windoze, they supply drivers.
  
_Modi 2 plugs into virtually any computer-Windows, Mac, popular Linux distros, Intel Chromebooks, as well as iPhones and iPads. Just plug in via USB and go with no drivers in Standard Mode, up to 24/96 output. Switch to Expert Mode for extended high-res capabilities to 24/192. This will require drivers for Windows, but for no other OS (hello, Microsoft!)_
  
 The Uber uses a linear power supply to power all of the circuitry other than the USB port. The Non-Uber uses the USB power from the port to power the DAC chip and other analog circuits which might introduce some noise.


----------



## Sniperboy

stand said:


> Yeah, the more you listen to it the more you appreiate it.




Not exactly what I had in mind but I do agree with the sentiment!


----------



## Mr Rick

umustbkidn said:


> As the owner of two Bravo V2's, which are quite similar to the Ocean, I'm going to suggest that you not try connecting them like that. I would personally hate to blow out a perfectly good Vali using a cheap Bravo amp. Louder does not equal better. In particular, if your Vali seems to be running warm at all, I'd avoid that configuration.
> 
> My Magni (a similar but solid state amp) runs fine (and fairly cool) with a 1.5 volt line input from my Modi DAC. I have also driven it with a 2 volt line out from a different DAC, but the amp runs considerably warmer with just a 1/2 volt increase. I would certainly not want to drive it any harder than that.
> 
> That being said, Schiit gear is built pretty solid. So it can probably take some abuse. Still, I'm not sure I'd want to abuse it like that. Just 'sayin.


 
 I've already dumped that idea. The Vali is currently being driven directly out of my CD / DVD player. It has plenty of gain and sounds great in that configuration. My Modi 2 should arrive today so that should also match the Vali well. I have a lifetime of experience in electronics so I'm not adverse to experimentation, but I do try to err on the side of caution. LOL
  
 Cheers,
  
 Rick


----------



## Edwii

stand said:


> Read more carefully, there is the expert mode and if on Windoze, they supply drivers.
> 
> _Modi 2 plugs into virtually any computer-Windows, Mac, popular Linux distros, Intel Chromebooks, as well as iPhones and iPads. Just plug in via USB and go with no drivers in Standard Mode, up to 24/96 output. Switch to Expert Mode for extended high-res capabilities to 24/192. This will require drivers for Windows, but for no other OS (hello, Microsoft!)_
> 
> The Uber uses a linear power supply to power all of the circuitry other than the USB port. The Non-Uber uses the USB power from the port to power the DAC chip and other analog circuits which might introduce some noise.


 

  
 But is modi 1 going to sound much different from thr modi 2 is the question; assuming both are running in 24/96


----------



## StanD

edwii said:


> But is modi 1 going to sound much different from thr modi 2 is the question; assuming both are running in 24/96


 
 Nothing earth shattering. I wouldn't sweat it if I owned a Modi 1 and it pleased me.


----------



## BeatsWork

sniperboy said:


> Not exactly what I had in mind but I do agree with the sentiment!


 
  
 I think he meant that buying anything audio on hope that it will appreciate in value is wishful thinking. A limited edition high end Grado sure maybe - black vs. Silver case, not a sure bet. It's like driving a car off the lot and losing 30% of the value


----------



## BeatsWork

spykez said:


> HP150 you say?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, if you can get your audio stuff to work on it great but...can't see how you're going to get USB support or anything to work on that thing.


 

 I'll bet it has a killer analog stage though ...


----------



## Sniperboy

beatswork said:


> I think he meant that buying anything audio on hope that it will appreciate in value is wishful thinking. A limited edition high end Grado sure maybe - black vs. Silver case, not a sure bet. It's like driving a car off the lot and losing 30% of the value


 

 Oh, having gone through different other hobbies in the past, I most definitely agree on this one.  Rereading my initial post I can see how it gives off this vibe.  Definitely not condoning buying black hardware solely as an investment.  More of like - if you want to get the hardware anyways and like the black finish, not to be put off so easily by the comments.  It may not exactly double in value like other ludicrous hobbies out there but it may contribute to it maintaining some of its original value if the component is not made anymore.
  


mr rick said:


> I've already dumped that idea. The Vali is currently being driven directly out of my CD / DVD player. It has plenty of gain and sounds great in that configuration. My Modi 2 should arrive today so that should also match the Vali well. I have a lifetime of experience in electronics so I'm not adverse to experimentation, but I do try to err on the side of caution. LOL
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rick


 
  
 Looking forward to your comparisons, Rick when you get your new Valhalla 2 etc.  An inquisitive mind is a good thing.


----------



## Sniperboy

edwii said:


> But is modi 1 going to sound much different from thr modi 2 is the question; assuming both are running in 24/96


 
  
 Do consider what StanD (and everyone else) is suggesting, I agree with their comments and if you want a courteously objective answer in a subjective hobby his reply is hard to beat 
  
 If you want to make a hobby out of listening to 24/192 audio then you have to get the modi2, otherwise the modi1 should be quite enjoyble as is and you save a little bit of cash.  In the end though, I have walked this path in the past, and no matter how hard you ask others, if you have already made a decision subconsciously then in the end you shouldn't listen to us, and just be honest to yourself and buy what you want...
  
 Like Rick you can experiment for yourself, and in many ways finding out for yourself can be more rewarding than taking our suggestions blindly on face value.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Schiit's selling a few black first generation lyrs, valhallas, and bifrosts. I'm so dissapointed that I can't get any of em 'cause of my budget! Noooooooooo. Go ahead and spread the word so they're all snapped up. Damn they look sexy


----------



## Edwii

sniperboy said:


> Like Rick you can experiment for yourself, and in many ways finding out for yourself can be more rewarding than taking our suggestions blindly on face value.






 


Rewarding but expensive experiments lol.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Schiit's selling a few black first generation lyrs, valhallas, and bifrosts. I'm so dissapointed that I can't get any of em 'cause of my budget! Noooooooooo. Go ahead and spread the word so they're all snapped up. Damn they look sexy


 
 Tell me, if it was Gen 2, you think some of us would have an aneurysm over missing the grab? I'd say, "Black is Beautiful."


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Tell me, if it was Gen 2, you think some of us would have an aneurysm over missing the grab? I'd say, "Black is Beautiful."



Maybe they should have another run of Black chassis gen2? Then you'd have to redecorate the whole room to fit the style.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Tell me, if it was Gen 2, you think some of us would have an aneurysm over missing the grab? I'd say, "Black is Beautiful."


 
  
  


pirakaphile said:


> Maybe they should have another run of Black chassis gen2? Then you'd have to redecorate the whole room to fit the style.


 
 I'm not redecorating, black goes with everything.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> I'm not redecorating, black goes with everything.



True, all I wear is black and grey. And my room has colour only when the computer screen is open. Black and grey are nice


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> True, all I wear is black and grey. And my room has colour only when the computer screen is open. Black and grey are nice


 
 You must have a Schiity view of things.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> You must have a Schiity view of things.



When I listen to music, I tell people not to bother me, close the door, draw the curtains, turn off the heater, sacrifice an animal, and then cover the lights on the Magni/Modi so the room is completely dark. 
I need the demons to listen with me.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> When I listen to music, I tell people not to bother me, close the door, draw the curtains, turn off the heater, sacrifice an animal, and then cover the lights on the Magni/Modi so the room is completely dark.
> I need the demons to listen with me.


 
 Do your eyes glow red like LEDs in the dark?


----------



## BeatsWork

pirakaphile said:


> True, all I wear is black and grey. And my room has colour only when the computer screen is open. Black and grey are nice



 


Style choice or do we need to do a medication intervention? :-0


----------



## Sniperboy

cspirou said:


> Amps usually have two steps of amplification. The first stage is a preamp stage to increase the signal voltage and the second stage is a power stage to supply the signal with current. Vacuum tubes amps are known for low current draws but fine at producing high voltages. For this reason the second stage is replaced by transistors to power the circuit.
> 
> The preamp output should just be a redirection of the headphone output towards the RCA jacks. Using a headphone to rca adapter (if it exists) should produce an identical signal to the preamp out.


 
  
 From your post I glean that the signal coming out of the headphone jack is identical to the preamp RCA outputs on the back.  Is that how I should understand it?  I was always under the impression that the preamp outs totally bypassed both "stages" as you describe or at the very least bypasses the second stage.  (To prevent double amping?)  
 Sorry if I am totally off base on that.
  
 Thank you for taking the time to post this as I was trying to wrap my head around how this works for a while.
  


money4me247 said:


> +1
> 
> @Mr Rick,
> 
> "double amping" is not recommended. not only does it introduce a greater potential to destroy your headphones, you also introduce noise & distortion of both amplifiers into the chain. There connecting two amplifiers together generally results in lesser sonic quality than just using one. It is fine for experimentation, but for daily usage, I also will not recommend that sort of configuration.


 
  
 Again, THANK YOU for noting that.  I have been searching posts as to an explanation of the detriments of double amping, and could not find a post with the reasoning behind it other than "its bad, don't do it..  cuz my mom said so "


----------



## BeatsWork

pirakaphile said:


> Maybe they should have another run of Black chassis gen2? Then you'd have to redecorate the whole room to fit the style.



 


I wasn't a huge fan of the silver in the beginning but it's grown on me. And having separate lines would greatly increase inventory management costs, supply chain hassles etc. all of which adds costs. That's been the Schiit reply for many things - yes we could add XXXX but then we'd have to charge more and implied "we don't think whatever is being requested adds enough value that we'd feel good about that."


----------



## Mr Rick

pirakaphile said:


> Schiit's selling a few black first generation lyrs, valhallas, and bifrosts. I'm so dissapointed that I can't get any of em 'cause of my budget! Noooooooooo. Go ahead and spread the word so they're all snapped up. Damn they look sexy


 
 I've gone over to the dark side. I've ordered a black Lyr. Based on previous orders it should be here tomorrow, so I'll be enjoying all that headroom very soon.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Do your eyes glow red like LEDs in the dark?


 
 No comment.
  
  


beatswork said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > True, all I wear is black and grey. And my room has colour only when the computer screen is open. Black and grey are nice
> ...


 
 HA! You think medication will work on me?!


----------



## money4me247

> Originally Posted by *StanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The second part, I was talking about the *Modi ONE* as OP purchased a old Modi ONE. You are correct about the linear power supply of the uber, I forgot to mention.
  
 If the Modi ONE also has the expert mode for high-res, I stand corrected, but did not read that anywhere on the website. both the modi 2 & 2uber supports up to 24/192, but I believe the modi ONE does not do that.


----------



## Pirakaphile

mr rick said:


> I've gone over to the dark side. I've ordered a black Lyr. Based on previous orders it should be here tomorrow, so I'll be enjoying all that headroom very soon.


 
 Very jealous, I won't get the Lyr2 'till next year! Enjoy it!


----------



## Sniperboy

mr rick said:


> I've gone over to the dark side. I've ordered a black Lyr. Based on previous orders it should be here tomorrow, so I'll be enjoying all that headroom very soon.


 

 Holy cow.. didn't you have a Valhalla2 coming in also?  You are truly a scholar.
 When you are able do let us know the findings of your research.
 Just make sure not to daisy chain all your amps together, I don't want to read about you on the news!


----------



## Mr Rick

Quote: 





sniperboy said:


> Holy cow.. didn't you have a Valhalla2 coming in also?  You are truly a scholar.
> When you are able do let us know the findings of your research.
> Just make sure not to daisy chain all your amps together, I don't want to read about you on the news!


 





...............and my Modi 2 and Magni just arrived. Please excuse me. I've got some listening to do.


----------



## Mr Rick

Just hooked up the Magni and Modi 2. Listening to Tedeschi Trucks Band  from Pandora as I type. Any other suggestions besides Pandora for source material??


----------



## Pirakaphile

mr rick said:


> Just hooked up the Magni and Modi 2. Listening to Tedeschi Trucks Band  from Pandora as I type. Any other suggestions besides Pandora for source material??


 
 Spotify lets you choose what songs you want to listen to if you want that, but also has a radio function. For highest quality audio, go to your nearest library and scour the cd selection for your favorite artists.


----------



## Kapazza

mr rick said:


> Just hooked up the Magni and Modi 2. Listening to Tedeschi Trucks Band  from Pandora as I type. Any other suggestions besides Pandora for source material??




How about anything BUT Pandora (and YouTube)? Seriously though, at least 320 kbps on Spotify or, since you seem to be a baller with mad dough, go with Tidal for true lossless streaming at 1,400+ kbps.


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> The second part, I was talking about the *Modi ONE* as OP purchased a old Modi ONE. You are correct about the linear power supply of the uber, I forgot to mention.
> 
> If the Modi ONE also has the expert mode for high-res, I stand corrected, but did not read that anywhere on the website. both the modi 2 & 2uber supports up to 24/192, but I believe the modi ONE does not do that.


 
 I don't think the Modi 1 has that expert mode, so if anyone needs that of the first gen, they are probably SOL (Schiit Out of Luck). If anyone remembers differently, help get this Schiit straight.


----------



## Mr Rick

kapazza said:


> How about anything BUT Pandora (and YouTube)? Seriously though, at least 320 kbps on Spotify or, since you seem to be a baller with mad dough, go with Tidal for true lossless streaming at 1,400+ kbps.


 
 Thanks , I will investigate. As to the $$$ it's my 65th birthday, give me a break.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> I don't think the Modi 1 has that expert mode, so if anyone needs that of the first gen, they are probably SOL (Schiit Out of Luck). If anyone remembers differently, help get this Schiit straight.


 
 I have the Modi and it only supports up to 24/92, no expert mode. Not that you really need anything other than 16/44.1, just sayin'


----------



## RRod

pirakaphile said:


> I have the Modi and it only supports up to 24/92, no expert mode. Not that you really need anything other than 16/44.1, just sayin'


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> I have the Modi and it only supports up to 24/92, no expert mode. Not that you really need anything other than 16/44.1, just sayin'


 
 Now you've gone and upset all of those platinum eared experts.


----------



## Kapazza

mr rick said:


> Thanks , I will investigate. As to the $$$ it's my 65th birthday, give me a break.


 
  
 Happy birthday!  Here, enjoy TWO free months of Spotify Premium (new subscribers only):  https://www.spotify.com/us/2014promobby/


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Now you've gone and upset all of those platinum eared experts.


 
 Everyone's entitled to all the extra artificial useless bits of information on the top of their music that they want. :3


----------



## BeatsWork

sniperboy said:


> From your post I glean that the signal coming out of the headphone jack is identical to the preamp RCA outputs on the back.  Is that how I should understand it?  I was always under the impression that the preamp outs totally bypassed both "stages" as you describe or at the very least bypasses the second stage.  (To prevent double amping?)
> Sorry if I am totally off base on that.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to post this as I was trying to wrap my head around how this works for a while.
> ...



 


What exactly are you trying to accomplish? There are situations which require "double amping" where you might be feeding a pair of 500w monoblocks and need a preamp - which is .... a low powered amp in chain prior to main amps(s). If you're talking about two headphone amps then taking amplified signal from 1st to 2nd will cause 2nd to amplify distortion introduced by 1st amp. And you risk damaging the 2nd amp which is not designed to take amplified signal. Bad idea.


If Amp 1 has true line out (pre-amp) then no you are not "double amping" but what configuration is forcing you to use the output of one amp in to another (vs. from source) where you are not trying to use the 1st as a pre-amp? If source only has one out and you want to connect two amps for switching back and forth then using pre-amp out of 1st amp should be fine. Obviously direct from source would be better but ... Alternatively you could look at SYS http://schiit.com/products/sys


----------



## StanD

sniperboy said:


> From your post I glean that the signal coming out of the headphone jack is identical to the preamp RCA outputs on the back.  Is that how I should understand it?  I was always under the impression that the preamp outs totally bypassed both "stages" as you describe or at the very least bypasses the second stage.  (To prevent double amping?)
> Sorry if I am totally off base on that.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to post this as I was trying to wrap my head around how this works for a while.
> ...


 
 When one double Amps they are amplifying the noise and distortion from the preceeding amp. Using a lineout as one's input is preferred as it is usually before any amplification, or at least it is before the power amp stage. If one is double amping something like an iPod Touch 5G, its noise and distortion is so low that one might not notice. If one is double amping something like an Ocean Vn or Bravo or the like, one will get a large dose of noise and some extra distortion.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Has anyone been to the schiit website lately? It appears their website has some security issues. It won't let you login stating that there's a hack attempt coming from schiit.com


----------



## Mr Rick

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone been to the schiit website lately? It appears their website has some security issues. It won't let you login stating that there's a hack attempt coming from schiit.com


 
 I logged in with no problem.


----------



## cspirou

sniperboy said:


> From your post I glean that the signal coming out of the headphone jack is identical to the preamp RCA outputs on the back.  Is that how I should understand it?  I was always under the impression that the preamp outs totally bypassed both "stages" as you describe or at the very least bypasses the second stage.  (To prevent double amping?)
> Sorry if I am totally off base on that.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to post this as I was trying to wrap my head around how this works for a while.


 
  
 Now we get into a conversation of passive vs active preamps. Passive preamps (like the Schiit Sys) just use a potentiometer or resistors to lower the signal voltage for volume control. Active preamps are powered and can not only lower the signal but increase it as well.
  
 A good preamp needs to be able to vary the voltage without adding any noise. Headphone amps only supply enough current to drive headphones (except maybe the Lyr/Lyr2) and have very low noise because of the intended use with headphones. The requirements for a headphone amp basically match the requirements for a good active preamp which is why you can take the output and not have to worry about "double amping".
  
 Bypassing the two stages would mean that the outputs are only passively controlled. This would be ok as well but as I understand it, the preamp outs are muted when the headphones are plugged in with the exception of the Ragnarok. This would mean you need a relay switch of some sort to detect when the headphones are plugged in to know when to cut off the output. It's pretty complicated additional circuitry and would add to the cost of the amp. Meanwhile for active amplification you only need a switching jack which cuts off the signal to the output as soon as the headphones are plugged in and vice versa.


----------



## Sniperboy

BeatsWork & StanD
  
 Gents, this is going to get very convoluted so I'll try to be simple as I may have phrased the questions unclearly earlier.
  
 1.  I was not trying to accomplish anything, I was merely asking cspirou to clarify since this was posted "The preamp output should just be a redirection of the headphone output towards the RCA jacks." I think this is not accurate, but I am not sure.  I was not trying to be confrontational, I just wanted to know if my understanding is wrong that preamp outs were not amplified, while the headphone jack out is.
  
 2.  The second part of my question comes from a comment on Schiit's website:
Valhalla 2 also adds two important features: preamp outs and a gain switch. Preamp outs let you connect your powered monitors directly to Valhalla 2, to give them some of what some people call “tube magic.”
 So far, cspirou's description of the hybrid amp "first stage is tube powered and second stage is the power stage" is the closest I have to a logical explanation to Schiit's comment.  I wanted to know if the first and second stage as he describes has anything to do with the preamp out.
  
 3.  Finally I have no desire to daisy chain amps, I will leave that to our resident expert Mr Rick : )
 This whole inquisitive chain started when I one day asked myself "what is so bad about amping an already active speaker set?"
  
 Anyways I am sure this is showing my ignorance and I am reminded why I have been lurking and not posting for very long. 
 Looks like less posting and more reading is in order for me.  Thanks for your patience thus far.


----------



## StanD

sniperboy said:


> Anyways I am sure this is showing my ignorance and I am reminded why I have been lurking and not posting for very long.
> Looks like less posting and more reading is in order for me.  Thanks for your patience thus far.


 
 It never hurts to ask an honest question. This stuff is not always obvious so don't feel ignorant or anything negative.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> It never hurts to ask an honest question. This stuff is not always obvious so don't feel ignorant or anything negative.


 
  
 StanD...
  
 i think im getting the hd650 soon. very very soon. There's no delivery domestic delivery here, so i gotta go to the store. so as soon as i can go to the store, i'll probably get it.
  
 1) my question is... will schiit OTL tube gives me night and day difference with the magni 2 uber i currently have?
 Or is it more the 5 or so percent that music-lover here seek for?
 I think i can live with 5% less sound quality with my magni 2 uber, but if it's like, oh, 20% less, maybe i'm getting OTL for the hd650...
  
  
 By the way, i can't remember which thread... "hd 600 appreciation thread" maybe, but um, im in the similar opinion to be honest. i like hd600 better.
 two things however, hinders from getting them. one it's not available locally, and two, the marble granite looks made me physically nauseous. I don't think i could _keep _that in my room.
 But i did audition the hd600 for like, 5 minutes? and hd650 for like 2 hours...
  
 i truly think i like the hd600 female vocals better (less bass doesn't hurt), and i think i'm *brain-adjusting* myself to like the hd650...
 2) oh, hd650 here is $640.. if i import hd600, it's going to be $600 total i reckon. In your personal do you think i should buy hd600 instead?
  
 i couldn't audition hd600 for as long as i would like to, because it's on a different store with the hd650, and that one aren't really keen with people auditioning, and all the time i'm auditioning, the clerk mention that it's not available locally so, i didn't pay 100% attention listening to it. I think i hav an idea in that short 5 minutes that i prefer hd600 though.
 How much i'm not sure because 600 / 650 seems to share that similar sound signature if not being listened to side-by-side. Well maybe hd650 has more bass and less forward vocals maybe?
 Or similarly as forward as hd600, but smoother?
  
 im really not sure.
 Also, going back to the store is not an option either because... i had to buy something just to get him to let me audition. I really don't want to buy another junk.
 So here i am asking, since i know you have the hd600...
 By the way, do you still use it or have you move on to another headphone?


----------



## Rossliew

rovopio said:


> 1) my question is... will schiit OTL tube gives me night and day difference with the magni 2 uber i currently have?
> Or is it more the 5 or so percent that music-lover here seek for?
> I think i can live with 5% less sound quality with my magni 2 uber, but if it's like, oh, 20% less, maybe i'm getting OTL for the hd650...
> 
> ...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> StanD...
> 
> i think im getting the hd650 soon. very very soon. There's no delivery domestic delivery here, so i gotta go to the store. so as soon as i can go to the store, i'll probably get it.
> 
> ...


 
 At home my I use both the HD600 and HE-500 headphones, I like both of them.
 WHen I got my HD600's I was looking to buy the HD700's and spent severeal lenghty sessions comparing the HD600, HD650, HD700 and HD800. The HD800 was over budget but very desirable. Although I was ready to pay up for the HD700's I found them to be a bit strident (too much treble) and left the choice to the HD650 and HD600. I was agonizing back and forth between the two as they are very much alike. The HD650 has a bit more bass and a bit less treble whicih to me gives a sloping trendline that loses treble. I found the HD600's to be most neutral and went with them. If I had got the HD650's, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over the choice.
 As far as amps go, I prefer a clean neutral SS Amp so I would go with the Magni 2 Uber. Among my piles of Schiit is a Magni 1 which works rather nicely with the HD600's. SOme folks claim the Magni 1 is bright, I don't believe that to be true as I compared it with other amps using an A/B switch. If you're looking at the Valhalla 2, I'm not sure if its tube sound will be very noticable as its THD figures are too low for human ears to notice. I don't follow the flash mob's cries so I won't just repeat what I've heard without saying so.
 Are you looking for as close to reproduction as was recorded, then SS is the way to go. If you want some coloration, then a tube amp with the right kind and amounts of distortion are worth considering. IMO, this is not an electric guitar so tubes are not important to me as I'm not looking for any soft clipping when I listen to music as opposed to guitar playing.


----------



## Spiral Out

I'm throughly enjoying the Magni 2 Uber with the HD600. The pairing is fantastic. I find myself using the Magni 2U over the Vali most of the time. Many people around here say that tube amps are preferable with the HD600/650, but I simply prefer the sound of the Magni to the Vali with my HD600. The Magni sounds much quicker, better seperation,tighter bass, and a wider sound stage without being bright at all. I listen predominantly to rock so that may be why I find the sound of solid state more appealing with the HD600. Of course this is only my subjective opinion...


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> At home my I use both the HD600 and HE-500 headphones, I like both of them.
> WHen I got my HD600's I was looking to buy the HD700's and spent severeal lenghty sessions comparing the HD600, HD650, HD700 and HD800. The HD800 was over budget but very desirable. Although I was ready to pay up for the HD700's I found them to be a bit strident (too much treble) and left the choice to the HD650 and HD600. I was agonizing back and forth between the two as they are very much alike. The HD650 has a bit more bass and a bit less treble whicih to me gives a sloping trendline that loses treble. I found the HD600's to be most neutral and went with them. If I had got the HD650's, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over the choice.
> As far as amps go, I prefer a clean neutral SS Amp so I would go with the Magni 2 Uber. Among my piles of Schiit is a Magni 1 which works rather nicely with the HD600's. SOme folks claim the Magni 1 is bright, I don't believe that to be true as I compared it with other amps using an A/B switch. If you're looking at the Valhalla 2, I'm not sure if its tube sound will be very noticable as its THD figures are too low for human ears to notice. I don't follow the flash mob's cries so I won't just repeat what I've heard without saying so.
> Are you looking for as close to reproduction as was recorded, then SS is the way to go. If you want some coloration, then a tube amp with the right kind and amounts of distortion are worth considering. IMO, this is not an electric guitar so tubes are not important to me as I'm not looking for any soft clipping when I listen to music as opposed to guitar playing.


 
  
 i know from another knowledgeable head-fier, malveaux, how "hauntingly beautiful" the he-500 are.
 i can't buy them here anymore, and im not looking into them either because of how big they are.
  
 From reading your reply, i think from your description i'd be pretty satisfied with my magni 2 uber. I really don't chase that extra 5% in terms of amps. headphones maybe, but not amps, at least for now. and i like the compact size of the magni
  
 when i auditioned the hd650 v. alpha dogs on the store for around 90 minutes~2 hours, they let me used the woo audio fireflies. Aside from giving more power to the Alpha Dogs, which my fioi x1 doesn't have enough of. I really don't think i'll be missing out on much either if i use my magni 2 uber compare to that. Ofc it's not OTL so that's why i ask here.
  
 i auditioned the hd600 on a completely different store however, where the clerk only let me audition for like, less than 5 minutes... and at that keep telling me that it's discontinued.
  
 I think the fact that i couldn't decide whether to get hd650 or Alpha Dogs after 2 hours, speak volume to how i might find them both lacking in some ways. Came home for decompression and read some more on hd600, and i think the hd600 is the right one for me.
  
 I however, mentally dislike granite design due to childhood trauma, so i'm really really not sure i could keep headphone with that kind of design in my room.
  
 -----
 The story goes : I had a bad food poisoning from a granite-like design M&Ms from Saudi Arabia when i was little, and every time i see granite it made me nauseous. Saudi Arabia M&Ms ruined my life in a way. i have two mental thing. The color purple and granites. Granites on floor doesn't really bother me, thanks to lifetime adjustment. I'm fine with it in buildings and such. But owning a granite thing... im not so sure. Just thinking about it  already made me a little nauseated.
 -----
  
 by the way, i was specifically looking for hd650 due to their rolled-off treble and dark sound signature.
 1) How much brighter would you say hd600 is compared to hd650?
 2) How is their treble peaks or high frequency range sound to your ear?
  
 --- Here's the thing... I have a condition. I got diagnosed with vestibular neurinitis. Basically, one of my inner ear physically hurts when listening to treble peaks for more than an hour. And i've got tinnitus too every now and then when i listen to my Grado sr80e. Apparently, despite being less bright than grado sr80e, listening to dt880 hurts my inner ear more.
  
 All this time i've been listening to the sony ma-900. I found that i have almost zero pain with ma-900. Well i still have pain if i listen to it 6 hours x 3 days non-stop. But with regular use, 3 hours a day for example, i can manage just fine with the ma-900.
  
 That's the only reason i'm considering hd650 really. (Well, also the fact that i'm looking for headphones that can render female vocals beautifully). Other aspect doesn't matter as much.
  
 3) i'm afraid that if i get hd600, it will still hurts my ear (based on people's reviews and descriptions about them). What do you think?
 5 minutes audition is hardly enough to judge how bright it actually is. (all thewhile the clerk was constantly telling me to let go off the headphone because it's a useless audition anyway due to unavailability of goods).
 And also, the granite design.
  
 But while 5 minutes is not enough to judge the brightness level, 1 minute is enough to know i like the female vocals midrange on the hd600 better than the hd650 i listen to for 2 hours or so. It's more _natural_ i guess. if that make any sense...


----------



## StanD

@rovopio I answered the part about the HD-600's not being discontinued in to your post in the HD600 thread as they are still listed on Sennheiser's website and the word discontinued is not on it. I would never think that the treble of the HD600's are strident at all, I think it's rather good, better than most without any feeling of elevation. As far as the granite look, yeah it's a bit odd, but since I never got sick eating bad M&Ms styled the same way, I don't get the same visceral reaction to their appearance. Like I've said in the past, if I got the HD650's instead, I wouldn't have lost any sleep over the decision.


----------



## Donnyboy98

What connections does the amp come with that connects with the computer?


----------



## rmullins08

No cables provided.  You provide your own


----------



## Donnyboy98

What cables will i need then?


----------



## noobandroid

donnyboy98 said:


> What connections does the amp come with that connects with the computer?


 
 what amp were you talking about?


----------



## Donnyboy98

Modi 2 and magni 2


----------



## noobandroid

donnyboy98 said:


> Modi 2 and magni 2


 
 from modi to magni, you can use RCA interconects, from PC to modi 2 depends on adding "uber" or not, without then USB connection only, with "uber" add on, you can choose optical or coaxial cable to connect
  
 magni 2 an magni 2 uber differs only by a preamp out, which is only rca option, so RCA cable is definitely used in Uber or not


----------



## cspirou

donnyboy98 said:


> Modi 2 and magni 2




The Modi 2 connects with a USB connection. You will need a cable with a Standard B connector to plug into the Modi 2. The Modi 2 Über has an optical input which many computers have as well, including all Apple desktops and laptops.


----------



## cspirou

The Schiit website says that the Lyr2 uses Class A/AB topology. Does anyone know at which point the amp leaves Class A to transition into Class AB?


----------



## Mr Rick

Jason quoted the Lyr 1 transition at about a half a watt. The Lyr 2 should be at least that.


----------



## noobandroid

cspirou said:


> The Schiit website says that the Lyr2 uses Class A/AB topology. Does anyone know at which point the amp leaves Class A to transition into Class AB?


 
 i also dont get it, and also the "dynamically adaptive" part


----------



## noobandroid

cspirou said:


> The Schiit website says that the Lyr2 uses Class A/AB topology. Does anyone know at which point the amp leaves Class A to transition into Class AB?


 
 i found this elsewhere
  
It works by sensing the current flowing through the output stage, and dynamically reconfiguring from Class-A single-ended to push-pull Class AB. 
  
so i think it's just a switch and not transitioning


----------



## plonter

An excited owner of modi2/magni2 uber stack here. With the wyrd in between,the sound is very very clean!  probably the cleanest I heard to date.  Instruments seperation is very good


----------



## Donnyboy98

cspirou said:


> The Modi 2 connects with a USB connection. You will need a cable with a Standard B connector to plug into the Modi 2. The Modi 2 Über has an optical input which many computers have as well, including all Apple desktops and laptops.


 no i wont be using uber. Any links? I dont have a clue what im looking for. I will probably get the wrong end that plugs into the pc


----------



## Mr Rick

donnyboy98 said:


> no i wont be using uber. Any links? I dont have a clue what im looking for. I will probably get the wrong end that plugs into the pc


 
 Go to the Schiit website and check out the "Guides" section. Very helpful.


----------



## cspirou

donnyboy98 said:


> no i wont be using uber. Any links? I dont have a clue what im looking for. I will probably get the wrong end that plugs into the pc


 
  
 Get this and you'll be safe.
  
Monoprice USB Cable


----------



## Donnyboy98

cspirou said:


> Get this and you'll be safe.
> 
> Monoprice USB Cable


 is that the only 1 i will need? 2 of them?


----------



## Mr Rick

donnyboy98 said:


> is that the only 1 i will need? 2 of them?


 
 USB for input and RCA cables for the output. ( One each USB, RCAs come in pairs.)


----------



## rmullins08

donnyboy98 said:


> is that the only 1 i will need? 2 of them?


 
 That goes from the PC to the Modi.
  
 Something like this http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=5346&seq=1&format=2  from the Modi to the Magni


----------



## Donnyboy98

http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/headphone-amplifier/magni-2/
http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/dac/modi/

What is the types?


----------



## Tro95

donnyboy98 said:


> http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/headphone-amplifier/magni-2/
> http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/dac/modi/
> 
> What is the types?


 
  
 You will require:
  
 1x USB 2.0 Class A to Class B cable to go from your laptop to the Modi
 1x Pair of RCA cables (preferably short) to go from the Modi to the Magni


----------



## Donnyboy98

tro95 said:


> You will require:
> 
> 1x USB 2.0 Class A to Class B cable to go from your laptop to the Modi
> 1x Pair of RCA cables (preferably short) to go from the Modi to the Magni


 ye but what are the types as it says usb 2.0 and another type saying optical uk transformer. Which to i put into my basket?


----------



## Tro95

donnyboy98 said:


> ye but what are the types as it says usb 2.0 and another type saying optical uk transformer. Which to i put into my basket?


 

 USB 2.0 is for hooking up via USB, which is what you'll want. Optical UK Transformer is a completely different method of input/output and cable, and if you don't know what it is then you probably don't have it.


----------



## Donnyboy98

I dontt know anything about amps anyways


----------



## Zojokkeli

You'll be easiest off by going to Schiit's website and ordering PYST-RCA and USB-cables.


----------



## Donnyboy98

I dont think they ship to the uk.


----------



## Zojokkeli

They'll ship almost anywhere in the world.


----------



## Mr Rick

donnyboy98 said:


> I dont think they ship to the uk.


 
 Most of their gear is offered with a 230V UK plug. Lots of people in the UK own their equipment.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

108 messages in a day?


----------



## Audiotic

zojokkeli said:


> They'll ship almost anywhere in the world.




There is an EU importer in NL, where I got my stuff from. They them?
http://www.schiit-europe.com


----------



## Donnyboy98

Just that when i went to order the amp and dac it said i need to buy it from electromod


----------



## Smithington

Hey Donnyboy98, a) schiit do ship to the uk and it is competitive to buy this way, but b) there is a uk distributor http://www.electromod.co.uk/

Good times eh?


----------



## Smithington

Ah, you found it. Nicely done.


----------



## Zojokkeli

donnyboy98 said:


> Just that when i went to order the amp and dac it said i need to buy it from electromod


 
  
 You can also find the PYST cables from Electromod.
  
 http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/schiit-accessories/pyst-usb-cable/
 http://www.electromod.co.uk/schiit-audio/schiit-accessories/pyst-single-ended-cables/


----------



## Donnyboy98

tro95 said:


> You will require:
> 
> 1x USB 2.0 Class A to Class B cable to go from your laptop to the Modi
> 1x Pair of RCA cables (preferably short) to go from the Modi to the Magni


 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-AUDIO-PAIR-CABLE-2RCA/dp/B0013BHMS8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1422482258&sr=8-4&keywords=Pair+of+RCA+cables
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ES5ZQE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
 will them do?


----------



## Zojokkeli

audiotic said:


> There is an EU importer in NL, where I got my stuff from. They them?
> http://www.schiit-europe.com


 
  
 I was talking about the actual Schiit from US, but I have also ordered Schiit from the Sonority Audio guys from NL.


----------



## bearFNF

donnyboy98 said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-AUDIO-PAIR-CABLE-2RCA/dp/B0013BHMS8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1422482258&sr=8-4&keywords=Pair+of+RCA+cables
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ES5ZQE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
> will them do?


 

 Yes that is what you are looking for, however 8 feet is not needed for the RCA cables, as the amp and DAC are typically stacked together. A 1 foot (or .5 metre) cable would be plenty.
  
 here is something close to short enough: http://www.amazon.co.uk/QED-Performance-Graphite-Stereo-Interconnect/dp/B007RE2WAS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422484608&sr=8-1&keywords=RCA+interconnect


----------



## Donnyboy98

bearfnf said:


> Yes that is what you are looking for, however 8 feet is not needed for the RCA cables, as the amp and DAC are typically stacked together. A 1 foot (or .5 metre) cable would be plenty.
> 
> here is something close to short enough: http://www.amazon.co.uk/QED-Performance-Graphite-Stereo-Interconnect/dp/B007RE2WAS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422484608&sr=8-1&keywords=RCA+interconnect



Thanks but i dont think i am going to buy a £22 when the longer 1 is cheaper


----------



## Donnyboy98

bearfnf said:


> Yes that is what you are looking for, however 8 feet is not needed for the RCA cables, as the amp and DAC are typically stacked together. A 1 foot (or .5 metre) cable would be plenty.
> 
> here is something close to short enough: http://www.amazon.co.uk/QED-Performance-Graphite-Stereo-Interconnect/dp/B007RE2WAS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422484608&sr=8-1&keywords=RCA+interconnect


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00FRI5RSA/ref=pd_aw_sbs_ce_4?refRID=1875ZBAD7YZJM262RMCP thats a cheaper option right?


----------



## Donnyboy98

Will it make difference if i buy the 1 you suggested? Better quality or something?


----------



## BeatsWork

donnyboy98 said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00FRI5RSA/ref=pd_aw_sbs_ce_4?refRID=1875ZBAD7YZJM262RMCP thats a cheaper option right?


 

 I know nothing of Cable Mountain but the fact that they offer a gold plated Toslink cable makes me a wee bit dubious http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cable-Mountain-TOSlink-Digital-Optical/dp/B00126JXLI/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in


----------



## Donnyboy98

That doesnt look like a cable i will need


----------



## bearFNF

donnyboy98 said:


> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00FRI5RSA/ref=pd_aw_sbs_ce_4?refRID=1875ZBAD7YZJM262RMCP thats a cheaper option right?


 

 I only did a quick search, that one you show will work also.  all you really need is a good quality short cable. 
 The issue with one too long is, where do you put all the excess?  you would have to coil it up behind the components which is not always possible.
 Not to mention an 8 foot cable would probably weigh more than the magni or modi, Heh


----------



## spykez

Problem is, is those 6" cables generally have enough bend in them that it causes the modi or whatever to lift it's back end up. I got a foot and a half ones and I just roll em up right behind everything.


----------



## bearFNF

spykez said:


> Problem is, is those 6" cables generally have enough bend in them that it causes the modi or whatever to lift it's back end up. I got a foot and a half ones and I just roll em up right behind everything.


 

 Yes, that is true, it will lift he back of the amp up off the DAC, but I usually use a rubber band around the Pyst cables to hold them in the right position.


----------



## Mr Rick

Got my Valhalla 2 today. Been listening to it for a few hours and it can now be used to make a toasted cheese sandwich. This is some hot Schiit.


----------



## Sniperboy

mr rick said:


> Got my Valhalla 2 today. Been listening to it for a few hours and it can now be used to make a toasted cheese sandwich. This is some hot Schiit.


 
  
 What we gotta know is how the Black Lyr, Valhalla2 and Magni stack up!
 You're killin' us here!


----------



## rovopio

i really gotta ask this. some people said the heat is exaggerated, and it won't burn anybody's hands or fingers anytime soon.
 some other people, one or two among those i personally think are level-headed head-fi member, uses creative terms to describe it's heat.
  
 Cooking some egg, or like yours, making toast sandwich.
  
 Seriously, how hot is the schiit gear like asgard and valhalla actually is?
 This mystery is wrinkling my brain...


----------



## Mr Rick

sniperboy said:


> What we gotta know is how the Black Lyr, Valhalla2 and Magni stack up!
> You're killin' us here!


 
 With my HD650s the Lyr Noir blows the others out of the water. It just has so much headroom. Unfortunately it also has some low level static on the right channel, so it has to go back to the Schiit house for a spa treatment. The good folks at Schiit have been right on top of things and even offered a full refund. But I'll never part with it. It's a keeper!


----------



## Mr Rick

rovopio said:


> i really gotta ask this. some people said the heat is exaggerated, and it won't burn anybody's hands or fingers anytime soon.
> some other people, one or two among those i personally think are level-headed head-fi member, uses creative terms to describe it's heat.
> 
> Cooking some egg, or like yours, making toast sandwich.
> ...


 
 The Valhalla 2 gets HOT!! I'll bet you could bake cookies on it. Really!! The Lyr runs class A so it's very hot too. It's the nature of the beast.


----------



## rovopio

mr rick said:


> The Valhalla 2 gets HOT!! I'll bet you could bake cookies on it. Really!! The Lyr runs class A so it's very hot too. It's the nature of the beast.


 
  
 can you touch and move it aside while it's playing?
  
 sometimes i move my mini schiit out of the way on my desk when i'm doing something. or sometimes i put my foot above my desk and my heel is touching the mini schiit.
  
 is it hot to the touch like, "oh schiit i just touch a boiling water", or like "i just touched a cup of hot tea"


----------



## David Aldrich

I love the temp my Gungnir reaches. I remember when the Mjolnir was first in proto at a meet up because it didn't have an anodized chassis it could only be run for about 15 minutes before it ran risk of burning up.


----------



## Mr Rick

rovopio said:


> can you touch and move it aside while it's playing?
> 
> sometimes i move my mini schiit out of the way on my desk when i'm doing something. or sometimes i put my foot above my desk and my heel is touching the mini schiit.
> 
> is it hot to the touch like, "oh schiit i just touch a boiling water", or like "i just touched a cup of hot tea"


 
 I can take some temperature measurements. I'll do that tomorrow. The Valhalla was so hot that I could not leave my hand on it.
  
 But keep in mind it is designed to run hot. Max power into 300 ohms is about 1 watt. Power consumption of the Valhalla 2 is rated at 40 watts. A lot of that 40 watts is creating heat.


----------



## Mr Rick

Here is something I found on the net:
  


too hot = 120 degrees F. (48 degrees C.) Anything above this is scalding and can damage human tissue

just too hot to touch = 107 degrees F. (42 degrees C.)

comfortably hot = 90 to 100 degrees F. (32 to 37 degrees C.)

luke warm = 80 to 85 degrees F. (26 to 29 degrees C.) Equivalent to skin temperature (hence testing baby formula on the wrist)

tepid = air temperature, or 72 to 76 degrees F. (22 to 24 degrees C.)

cool to the touch = just below air temperature, or 50 to 65 degrees F. (10 to 18 degrees C.)

very cold = 40 to 32 degrees F. or below (4 to 0 degrees C.) You have very limited
time at which you can stay alive in this temperature.


----------



## Sniperboy

mr rick said:


> With my HD650s the Lyr Noir blows the others out of the water. It just has so much headroom. Unfortunately it also has some low level static on the right channel, so it has to go back to the Schiit house for a spa treatment. The good folks at Schiit have been right on top of things and even offered a full refund. But I'll never part with it. It's a keeper!


 

 "Lyr Noir" I like that.. I really like that.  very sharp : )
 I assumed that for the 300 ohm HD650, that the Valhalla would output more power and had a leg up as opposed to the Lyr.  The Lyr outputs 660mw @ 300 ohms and the Valhalla outputs 800mW @ 300 ohms.  But I was certain that the hybrid nature of the Lyr had a big influence on the final equation.
  
 Sadly I did not have the privelege of owning the Lyr ant Valhalla at the same time (I owned them on separate occasions) so I appreciate sharing your thoughts.


----------



## Mr Rick

sniperboy said:


> "Lyr Noir" I like that.. I really like that.  very sharp : )
> I assumed that for the 300 ohm HD650, that the Valhalla would output more power and had a leg up as opposed to the Lyr.  The Lyr outputs 660mw @ 300 ohms and the Valhalla outputs 800mW @ 300 ohms.  But I was certain that the hybrid nature of the Lyr had a big influence on the final equation.
> 
> Sadly I did not have the privelege of owning the Lyr ant Valhalla at the same time (I owned them on separate occasions) so I appreciate sharing your thoughts.


 
 It's early days yet. I will continue to compare my Schiit and will report back from time to time. I'm not sure if there is a class A sound, but so far I prefer the Lyr. Pity it will be  unavailable to me for a few weeks.


----------



## 5kylon

Hi there! Looking for some schiity insight into Asgard 2 vs. Lyr 2.
  
 I am looking into pairing the Hifiman 560's with either the Schiit Asgard 2 or the Lyr 2. Considering I listen to alot of electronic music (not only) and value a warm sounding amp with good clarity and quantity in deep sub-bass (in addition to overall great fidelity), which of these amps would pair best with the 560's? Value per dollar is not important, but achieving that deep sub-bass is. 
  
 Curveball: What if we start tube rolling the Lyr2? Which tubes, if any, would give the Lyr2 a clear advantage over the Asgaard2 in this regard? (Seeing how some describe the Asgard as already slightly warm).
  
 ps. I have tried the LCD-2 (fazors) quickly but felt the 560 where much more comfortable on my head, should I still consider the LCD-2 again?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Lyr 2 is fantastic with the he560. Put a decent set of Russian tubes or similar for $50 and you'll be in heaven. The Asgard 2 is also very good but the lyr 2 fits your description of what you want best. 
  
 gL!!


----------



## Zojokkeli

5kylon said:


> Hi there! Looking for some schiity insight into Asgard 2 vs. Lyr 2.
> 
> I am looking into pairing the Hifiman 560's with either the Schiit Asgard 2 or the Lyr 2. Considering I listen to alot of electronic music (not only) and value a warm sounding amp with good clarity and quantity in deep sub-bass (in addition to overall great fidelity), which of these amps would pair best with the 560's? Value per dollar is not important, but achieving that deep sub-bass is.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haven't heard Lyr 2, but I've had Asgard 2, and while it's a very nice amp (especially for the price!) I found it to be somewhat lacking in the bass department.


----------



## cggkevin1976

I've had my Asgard 2 on for about 4 hours this morning and it is warm. I can grab and hold the chassis firmly without any issues. the same for the volume knob. I would guess it's slightly warmer than the Bifrost sitting underneath is. In fact, the stack makes a nice little hand warmer in the winter.
  
 My Valhalla is warmer and I may not want to firmly grip it for a long time but I can certainly touch the volume knob without issue.
  
 I would venture to say that temperature is a lot like sound quality in that it can be perceived differently by different people.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

sniperboy said:


> What we gotta know is how the Black Lyr, Valhalla2 and Magni stack up!
> You're killin' us here!




Nice Schiit Stack and a great "space heater"!


----------



## Mr Rick

mr rick said:


> I can take some temperature measurements. I'll do that tomorrow. The Valhalla was so hot that I could not leave my hand on it.
> 
> But keep in mind it is designed to run hot. Max power into 300 ohms is about 1 watt. Power consumption of the Valhalla 2 is rated at 40 watts. A lot of that 40 watts is creating heat.


 
  
 Results of my unofficial temperature testing of my Valhall 2. Driving 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650s:
  
 The amp has been running about two hours. playing everything from Brahms to Ana Popovic.
  
 Ambient room temperature.....69.2F------20.7C
  
 Amp temperature as taken with the probe taped to the Schiit logo on the top of the Valhall 2.
  
  Max temperature recorded......108.3F----42.4C


----------



## 5kylon

matttcg said:


> ^^ Lyr 2 is fantastic with the he560. Put a decent set of Russian tubes or similar for $50 and you'll be in heaven. The Asgard 2 is also very good but the lyr 2 fits your description of what you want best.
> 
> gL!!


 
 Thanks Matt. I'm leaning towards the Lyr2.
 Any russian tubes in particular you can recommend which really brings out the bass? Price range $50-$100.


----------



## Sniperboy

mr rick said:


> Results of my unofficial temperature testing of my Valhall 2. Driving 300 ohm Sennheiser HD650s:
> 
> The amp has been running about two hours. playing everything from Brahms to Ana Popovic.
> 
> ...


 
  
 As an engineer, I can appreciate this.  (Even had a friggin probe handy, with ambient temperature measurement.)
 No more posts with subjective adjectives describing the temperature! 
 (but I am sure people will ask anyways!)  Thanks for taking the time to put this beast to rest.


----------



## Mr Rick

sniperboy said:


> As an engineer, I can appreciate this.  (Even had a friggin probe handy, with ambient temperature measurement.)
> No more posts with subjective adjectives describing the temperature!
> (but I am sure people will ask anyways!)  Thanks for taking the time to put this beast to rest.


 
 Thanks. QA / QC was my field (now retired) so I eat this stuff up.
  
 Asgard 2 due tomorrow so I'll soon have a really big Schiit pile. LOL


----------



## Sniperboy

mr rick said:


> Thanks. QA / QC was my field (now retired) so I eat this stuff up.
> 
> Asgard 2 due tomorrow so I'll soon have a really big Schiit pile. LOL


 

 You are a ROCK STAR, sir!  I figured you had a background, and it shows.
 I eat this up too, and love reading about it better than "oh boy I got my confirmation number woohoo!" posts.
  
 Use this time to listen to your ASGARD and MAGNI, because I have the feeling from your previous post that when your LYR NOIR comes back then your attention may become skewed.
  
 Have you already set up an apparatus to A/B/C/D your four amps when four to one output to feed into your HD650?


----------



## Mr Rick

sniperboy said:


> You are a ROCK STAR, sir!  I figured you had a background, and it shows.
> I eat this up too, and love reading about it better than "oh boy I got my confirmation number woohoo!" posts.
> 
> Use this time to listen to your ASGARD and MAGNI, because I have the feeling from your previous post that when your LYR NOIR comes back then your attention may become skewed.
> ...


 
 I'm working on it.


----------



## spykez

The Asgard 2 gets pretty warm in spots but nothing I can't put my hand on and get burned. I could hold it in my hand fine.


----------



## Mr Rick

spykez said:


> The Asgard 2 gets pretty warm in spots but nothing I can't put my hand on and get burned. I could hold it in my hand fine.


 
 Schiit quotes 40-45C. That is "too hot to touch" for many. But of course still within design parameters for a class A amplifier.


----------



## madwolfa

mr rick said:


> Schiit quotes 40-45C. That is "too hot to touch" for many. But of course still within design parameters for a class A amplifier.


 
  
 Also have in mind that Asgard is not a typical class A amplifier. I haven't seen many amplifiers that would use their own chassis as a heatsink.


----------



## spykez

mr rick said:


> spykez said:
> 
> 
> > The Asgard 2 gets pretty warm in spots but nothing I can't put my hand on and get burned. I could hold it in my hand fine.
> ...


 
 I've got my hand sitting on the very top and sides and it's warm, I don't think it'd even make water sizzle. Maybe if I held it on the bottom it'd be that hot but it's not bad at all.


----------



## Tuco1965

My Lyr's volume knob is great hand warmer this time of year.


----------



## cspirou

madwolfa said:


> Also have in mind that Asgard is not a typical class A amplifier. I haven't seen many amplifiers that would use their own chassis as a heatsink.




You need to take a look at what Nelson Pass does at Pass Labs or First Watt. Its not so much that he uses his chassis as a heat sink but that his chassis is literally made out of heatsinks!


----------



## David Aldrich

I don't think I've ever seen a Class A amp that doesn't use chassis heatsinking or heatsinks as part of the chassis. An air over fan cooled design could work but who wants an amp that makes noise? That's what transducers are for.


----------



## madwolfa

OK, then I guess it's typical for Class A. Admittedly, I've never seen many pure Class A amps in my life.


----------



## David Aldrich

In theory they have the best chance at quality linear amplification with low distortion, however like many things that excel at one thing they are the most inefficient amplifier design for it.
  
 The saying fully on all the time applies to them.


----------



## spykez

my buddy is getting into audio and referred him to getting a Modi/Magni for his cans (Sennheiser DJ 7) and he couldn't wrap his head around how small it's going to be so I sent him this for reference.


----------



## UmustBKidn

guidostrunk said:


> Has anyone been to the schiit website lately? It appears their website has some security issues. It won't let you login stating that there's a hack attempt coming from schiit.com


 
  
 <Head-fi GeekSquad>
  
 My Bitdefender traffic light currently reports the Schiit website as clean. See image below. Not sure what it was when you posted that.
  

  
 I use and recommend the Bitdefender TrafficLight add-on for Firefox. It adds a green/amber/red indicator to all Google searches, so you can tell prior to visiting a website, if the website is suspected of containing malicious elements. I avoid anything marked amber or red.
  
 I also use and recommend AdBlock Plus, NoScript, and CSFire. NoScript takes some getting used to, but if you tend to stay only on certain websites, you set permissions up once and forget it. Not good for people who browse frequently.
  
 For those who like to browse anywhere and everywhere, I recommend purchasing a cheap android tablet, using a disposable google account, and sacrificing the tablet to the Malware Godz. Be sure to search the App store for all the free Bitdefender apps, there are some nice ones.
  
 </Head-fi GeekSquad>


----------



## Guidostrunk

Me personally, I found the 77 Grey shield, to be more bass oriented. Impact and slam with some nice details and a great soundstage. 





5kylon said:


> Thanks Matt. I'm leaning towards the Lyr2.
> Any russian tubes in particular you can recommend which really brings out the bass? Price range $50-$100.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks for the info. Cheers 





umustbkidn said:


> My Bitdefender traffic light currently reports the Schiit website as clean. See image below. Not sure what it was when you posted that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Music Alchemist

How did I forget about this gigantic thread?
  
 Since earlier this month, I am at long last a Schiit owner: Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2.
  
 I posted this in another thread and might as well share it here:
  


music alchemist said:


> My impressions of the Uber would leave an uber impression on you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Gonna hold off on more Schiit until I can afford the Ragnarok and Yggdrasil -- after upgrading to high-end headphones, of course.


----------



## squee116

My friend will be getting a pair of AKG k7xx, and was looking at Schiit products.  I've got the Vali for my 712s, which I thoroughly enjoy, but I'm not sure how the K7xx sounds by comparison.  He's looking for sub-150, and may or may not upgrade to DAC later.  He'll be using his motherboard audio out, and is debating between the Magni U and the Vali.  This is his first foray into mid-fi, and doesn't know what sound signatures he likes/dislikes, so I'm hoping to direct him to an option that stays on the warm side, but not far from neutral.

 Any thoughts from a more experienced head-fi'er about which way to go?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

squee116 said:


> My friend will be getting a pair of AKG k7xx, and was looking at Schiit products.  I've got the Vali for my 712s, which I thoroughly enjoy, but I'm not sure how the K7xx sounds by comparison.  He's looking for sub-150, and may or may not upgrade to DAC later.  He'll be using his motherboard audio out, and is debating between the Magni U and the Vali.  This is his first foray into mid-fi, and doesn't know what sound signatures he likes/dislikes, so I'm hoping to direct him to an option that stays on the warm side, but not far from neutral.
> 
> Any thoughts from a more experienced head-fi'er about which way to go?


 

 Why don' yo let him listen too your Vali? If that is the sound he is after you can go that direction, if not the Magni U or Asgard 2 rock.


----------



## squee116

wildcatsare1 said:


> Why don' yo let him listen too your Vali? If that is the sound he is after you can go that direction, if not the Magni U or Asgard 2 rock.


 
 He's in Ohio, and I'm in Texas, moving to California.


----------



## Mr Rick

squee116 said:


> My friend will be getting a pair of AKG k7xx, and was looking at Schiit products.  I've got the Vali for my 712s, which I thoroughly enjoy, but I'm not sure how the K7xx sounds by comparison.  He's looking for sub-150, and may or may not upgrade to DAC later.  He'll be using his motherboard audio out, and is debating between the Magni U and the Vali.  This is his first foray into mid-fi, and doesn't know what sound signatures he likes/dislikes, so I'm hoping to direct him to an option that stays on the warm side, but not far from neutral.
> 
> Any thoughts from a more experienced head-fi'er about which way to go?


 
 I own the Vali and the original Magni and to be honest, in a blind comparison, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two.
  
 Also keep in mind that Schiit does have a 15 day money back guarantee.  You can hardly go wrong with either one.
  
 Finally, keep in mind that Schiit still has some of the original Magni's for $79.00.


----------



## squee116

mr rick said:


> I own the Vali and the original Magni and to be honest, in a blind comparison, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two.
> 
> Also keep in mind that Schiit does have a 15 day money back guarantee.  You can hardly go wrong with either one.
> 
> Finally, keep in mind that Schiit still has some of the original Magni's for $79.00.


 
 An interesting thing about, regardless of which Magni I recommended, the Magni 2 U, if any, speaks to him.  I've known him long enough to know that he won't be talked out of it, if he goes with the Magni at all.


----------



## Mr Rick

squee116 said:


> An interesting thing about, regardless of which Magni I recommended, the Magni 2 U, if any, speaks to him.  I've known him long enough to know that he won't be talked out of it, if he goes with the Magni at all.


 
 I know how he feels. I'll eventually have to try the M2U myself.


----------



## ejwiles

squee116 said:


> He's in Ohio, and I'm in Texas, moving to California.




Wrong way!


----------



## squee116

ejwiles said:


> Wrong way!


 
 I agree, but I only came to Texas for school, and it's time to go back.  Maybe I can get a job out this way eventually.


----------



## Edwii

Just got a Modi 1 today. Sounds good, but in Windows 8.1, I only have 16/44.1  16/48  24/44.1  and 24/48 , the Schiit site says up to 24/96...
 What am I missing?


----------



## squee116

edwii said:


> Just got a Modi 1 today. Sounds good, but in Windows 8.1, I only have 16/44.1  16/48  24/44.1  and 24/48 , the Schiit site says up to 24/96...
> What am I missing?


 
 I don't own the Modi so I can't say for certain, but I thought you needed to download drivers to use on Windows?


----------



## Edwii

squee116 said:


> I don't own the Modi so I can't say for certain, but I thought you needed to download drivers to use on Windows?


 

 1. I didn't find drivers in the Modi 1 selection 
 2. Modi 1's discriptions says no drivers needed. 
 3. Modi 2 has drivers, but wont let me install them with out connecting the right usb device(which Im assuming is a modi2 or other)


----------



## Music Alchemist

edwii said:


> Just got a Modi 1 today. Sounds good, but in Windows 8.1, I only have 16/44.1  16/48  24/44.1  and 24/48 , the Schiit site says up to 24/96...
> What am I missing?


 
  
 All you need is 16-bit / 44.1 kHz. Simply convert your high-res PCM files to that and they will sound exactly the same.


----------



## Donnyboy98

Have i got this set up right cause its just playing through my speakers


----------



## Donnyboy98

That is also happening when i go to install the drivers


----------



## nbrowser

Crud wrong area for what I posted....please disregard this post.


----------



## Donnyboy98

Update: Its okay i just deleted the use of speakers and set it to modi and its working now


----------



## rovopio

mr rick said:


> Results


 
  
 thank you for the measurement good sir!
  
 it really helps


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Also have in mind that Asgard is not a typical class A amplifier. I haven't seen many amplifiers that would use their own chassis as a heatsink.


 
  
 what does other amplifiers usually use as heatsink?
  
 *serious question


----------



## Mr Rick

rovopio said:


> what does other amplifiers usually use as heatsink?
> 
> *serious question


 
 Many, many amplifiers and other audio equipment use the chassis as a heatsink. Others may have individual heatsinks attached to individual components within the unit to dissipate the heat. In tube equipment the tubes themselves generate considerable heat. Large power amplifiers using tubes most often use forced air ( fan ) systems to remove the heat from within the chassis and cabinet.
  
 Here is an example of internal heatsinks on an Marantz 2385 receiver. ( Designed to drive speakers. )
  
  

  
 Here is an example of some serious external heatsinking on a Bose 1801 amplifier.


----------



## StanD

edwii said:


> 1. I didn't find drivers in the Modi 1 selection
> 2. Modi 1's discriptions says no drivers needed.
> 3. Modi 2 has drivers, but wont let me install them with out connecting the right usb device(which Im assuming is a modi2 or other)


 
 I don't think the Modi 1 has the Expert mode switch that can take advantage of the drivers, thus the Modi 1 has a limited range of rates and resolutions.


----------



## KLJTech

I could be mistaken but I believe the Modi (original version) is limited to 24/96 (which sounds pretty damn good) and doesn't require drivers. I'm sure you can find out rather quickly by contacting Schiit Audio. Good luck.


----------



## jaywillin

kljtech said:


> I could be mistaken but I believe the Modi (original version) is limited to 24/96 (which sounds pretty damn good) and doesn't require drivers. I'm sure you can find out rather quickly by contacting Schiit Audio. Good luck.


 
 yes, the original modi was just 24/96
 from the schiit website -
*"Modi 2 plugs into virtually any computer—Windows, Mac, popular Linux distros, Intel Chromebooks, as well as iPhones and iPads. Just plug in via USB and go with no drivers in Standard Mode, up to 24/96 output. Switch to Expert Mode for extended high-res capabilities to 24/192. This will require drivers for Windows, but for no other OS (hello, Microsoft!)"*


----------



## Billheiser

kljtech said:


> I could be mistaken but I believe the Modi (original version) is limited to 24/96 (which sounds pretty damn good) and doesn't require drivers. I'm sure you can find out rather quickly by contacting Schiit Audio. Good luck.


 

 Correct.  Up to 24/96 and doesn't require drivers.
  http://schiit.com/products/modi


----------



## Edwii

Update: 
 I don't know what happened. 
 I was tiding some wires in the back of the computer; ended up swaping usb cables, and usb ports with the modi, and now I have 24/96. 
  
 Guess everthing's cool now lol  
 Any way, thanks for all the input.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I don't think the Modi 1 has the Expert mode switch that can take advantage of the drivers, thus the Modi 1 has a limited range of rates and resolutions.


 
  
 i'm still learning so feel free to correct me if any of my assessment is far from the mark.
  
 During my search of auditioning the hd650, i happened to listen to them through WA7 and WA3. That adds my _amp listening _experience to those and my magni 2 uber. And fiio e10k and fiio 07k in the past. I have to agree with what StanD said to my own questions in the past few weeks regarding desktop amps in relation to _increased in_ sound quality and headphone driveability_._
  
 I have to say that after listening to WA7, that a properly designed solid state amp will be able to provide both current and voltage to many headphones. What i mean by it is that in relation to sound, most headphones will  sound optimum with a good designed solid state amp. While specific amp that i tried, like the WA3 OTL tube provide their own specific coloration to the sound.
 That said, barring planar headphones, i would say that most dynamic driver headphones will be drivable by a properly designed amp, regardless of it's price.
  
 For my own case...
 if I were to buy a lyr 2, i'd buy it if i have a planar headphone that needs it.
 if I were to buy a valhalla 2, i'd buy it if i have a high-impedance headphone to pair with it.
 if i were to buy an asgard 2, i'd buy it to get a more refined sound quality.
  
 However, I have to say that for most people that are new to amps and dacs, and visit schiit thread with questions in mind regarding what kind of sound quality to expect when pairing their headphones with amps, and what amps to choose, you won't miss that much by not getting a $xxx amps.
 If you have limited budget or space, _you aren't missing much with choosing magni 2 uber _or _asgard 2 _in comparison to other solid state amps offering.
  
 In fact, i learn that the assessment of older members here are correct in that magni 2 uber has _tremendous value. _For $149 you get a good solid state amps that won't lagged far behind other solid state amps (portable or desktop) that is triple or quadruple it's price.
  
 I myself was playing with the idea of getting an asgard 2. (only decided against that due to space limitation).
 Magni 2 uber reproduction of treble is crisp but a little less refined. Based on my own readings i know for sure that Asgard 2 provide smoother sound to the music overall.
  
 That's _mostly_ what you get from the extra $100 from the asgard 2 vs. the magni 2 uber. For experienced audiophiles and people that also have a decent-to-high-end speaker system on their home and cars, i'm pretty sure there's some arguably noticeable difference between magni 2 uber, asgard 2, and say, WA7 Fireflies.
  
 But for confused new people that doesn't even know the difference between one amps to another, here's the gist of my experience...
 if i have more money and space, and my headphones are dynamic driver headphones, i get an asgard 2.
 if i have less money and / or space, i'll get a magni 2 uber.
 if i have planar headphones, i'll get a lyr 2.
 if _you_ have a high-impedance headphones that likes specific OTL tube amps, _you _could get popular OTL tube amps. Common recommendations includes WA3, BH Crack, and Valhalla 2.
  
 You won't miss much from not getting an asgard 2. In fact, for $149 you get a lot out of what asgard 2 is giving you for the extra $100 asgard 2 ask.
  
 Tube amps to dynamic driver headphones I found is more about the enjoyment of the hobby (and what is commonly called synergy).
 As in it provides specific coloration to sounds. _Subjectively, _the music sounds _better. _Yet it doesn't make the headphone sounds worse if you pair it with a _meagre _$149 amps. In fact, with $149 or $249, it could be the last amp you'll ever need if you aren't into the hobby and just want _a decent system to enjoy music._
  
 I might be wrong but i consider Audiophile is a hobby, while music-lover is universal.
 A music-lover will benefits from having a decent setup so that the music will sound _proper._
  
 In that sense, a decent dynamic headphone with a schiit uber stack is as decent as it gets for as little money as possible.


----------



## Mr Rick

rovopio said:


> i'm still learning so feel free to correct me if any of my assessment is far from the mark.
> 
> During my search of auditioning the hd650, i happened to listen to them through WA7 and WA3. That adds my _amp listening _experience to those and my magni 2 uber. And fiio e10k and fiio 07k in the past. I have to agree with what StanD said to my own questions in the past few weeks regarding desktop amps in relation to _increased in_ sound quality and headphone driveability_._
> 
> ...


 
 I think that pretty much sums it up.


----------



## rovopio

mr rick said:


> I think that pretty much sums it up.


 
  
 i know that i won't be able to reliably tell magni 2 uber and asgard 2 in a blind test. Yet i also know that asgard 2 is smoother in trebles area than magni 2 uber.
  
 I know that _the_ _extra _$100 gives me smoother sound, and hence, better experience from listening to the music. I want it. That line is what differentiate between _the hobby _and _the music. _I would get an asgard 2 if only my desk is not so small.
  
 Though for example, i'm considering giving my parent a schiit stacks plus some light, comfortable headphones. I know from experience that they can tell apart a $20 xxx headphone with my existing headphones.
 Yet i'm sure as hell my mom and my sister would not be able to differentiate or appreciate the difference between a $149 magni 2 uber and a WA7 Fireflies, let alone an Asgard.
  
 Most people would benefit from the modi (and magni) compared to the noise and hisses many cheap laptop makes.


----------



## David Aldrich

My only gripe with the current mini-stack components, especially the uber is that they don't have the necessary mass to keep from scooting around a desk when being plugged/unplugged or fondled. 
  
 Even the mid-stack equipment is subject to driving, The large-stack isn't a problem, the ultra-stack is a no brainer.


----------



## Mr Rick

david aldrich said:


> My only gripe with the current mini-stack components, especially the uber is that they don't have the necessary mass to keep from scooting around a desk when being plugged/unplugged or fondled.
> 
> Even the mid-stack equipment is subject to driving, The large-stack isn't a problem, the ultra-stack is a no brainer.


 
 Try a product called Quakehold. Sold on Amazon.


----------



## Billheiser

"I myself was playing with the idea of getting an asgard 2. (only decided against that due to space limitation).
Magni 2 uber reproduction of treble is crisp but a little less refined. Based on my own readings i know for sure that Asgard 2 provide smoother sound to the music overall."

Since you haven't listened to an Asgard 2, you don't "know for sure" how it sounds. You make some decent points but it's not useful to tell others about the sound and value proposition of something you have no experience with.


----------



## BeatsWork

mr rick said:


> Try a product called Quakehold. Sold on Amazon.


 

 Or Poster Tack - any Walmart/Target


----------



## David Aldrich

mr rick said:


> Try a product called Quakehold. Sold on Amazon.


 

 That probably would solve the problem. I'm not super keen on having stuff stuck down to my desk though. I'll need either a Mjolnir or Ragnarok to go with my Gungnir, a Magni 2 Uber might look a little silly sitting on it.


----------



## rovopio

billheiser said:


> "I myself was playing with the idea of getting an asgard 2. (only decided against that due to space limitation).
> Magni 2 uber reproduction of treble is crisp but a little less refined. Based on my own readings i know for sure that Asgard 2 provide smoother sound to the music overall."
> 
> Since you haven't listened to an Asgard 2, you don't "know for sure" how it sounds. You make some decent points but it's not useful to tell others about the sound and value proposition of something you have no experience with.


 
  
 that is true.
  
 I do know (sort of) how Asgard 1 sounds like. I listen to what this store called "_a secondhand semi-broken asgard 1_" back when i was buying my shure940. less than a year ago but more than six months ago. The seller never told me what's not working properly from the asgard 1, even after i ask. Sound-wise it sounds normal.
 My comparison from that time and now listening to the magni 2 uber at home is that it doesn't differ that much. Not in a way that my families or girlfriend will appreciate.
 It's smoother in the treble area, while magni 2 uber is a little harsh.
  
 I always discount the experience and also didn't put that in the initial post because _the asgard is not working properly. _Sound-wise i couldn't tell if there's anything wrong with it. When i got the magni 2 uber, i read this thread comparing magni to asgard, www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard
  
 And I agree with blind test, I don't think i'll be able to tell the difference between the two more than half of the times. But hey! That's what makes this a hobby. And that's what makes people an audiophile.
  
 So no, I haven't heard Asgard 2. The asgard 1 i've heard is not a reliable reference stick due to the store's own admission of the unit's condition.
 I still stand by my word that buying an asgard 2 (or other brand's amp that cost even more, like the WA7 Fireflies) is getting into the hobby territory. It's an audiophile thing.
 While average music-lover that's not an audiophile, would benefit immensely with having a decent DAC (and amp), like schiit mini-stack, or their mini-uber stack.
  
 -----
_ps:: (*you probably see my post on the hd650 thread, looking for advice between 650/600. My girlfriend was actually with me for the first 30 minutes out of the 4 hours auditioning the hd650 (+AD), plugged into WA7 and WA3. When i listened to one, she listened to the other. On the way back home she said, there's no difference between my magni 2 uber and the WA7 fireflies plugged into the alpha dogs._)
  
 she said "Is that Fireflies amp like, the Hermes of amplifiers or something? And your small amp is a cheap brand? Are you buying the brand? How does that cost $1200? Doesn't sound that much different with your amp at home"
  
 In fairness she also said there's no difference between any of my headphones sound-wise, "well it's better than my logitech" said she. She usually listen to whichever i'm not using on her laptop with my fiio e10k, and seemingly has no preference on the headphone. She likes music enough to appreciate a good headphones and the absence of hiss from cheap laptop with external dac. But not a hobbyist that bothers to find the difference between my sr80e and my dt880.


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> that is true.
> 
> I do know (sort of) how Asgard 1 sounds like. I listen to what this store called "_a secondhand semi-broken asgard 1_" back when i was buying my shure940. less than a year ago but more than six months ago. The seller never told me what's not working properly from the asgard 1, even after i ask. Sound-wise it sounds normal.
> My comparison from that time and now listening to the magni 2 uber at home is that it doesn't differ that much. Not in a way that my families or girlfriend will appreciate.
> ...


 
 Perhaps she's smarter than all of us.
 By the way, our ability to remember the fine details of audio for comparitive purposes is very short term and we are very easily fooled by ourselves. More than six months ago (Asgard 1) far exceeds our human limitations, I'd keep very short as "Echoic Memory" lasts for a few seconds.


----------



## KLJTech

No offense intended, but I have to agree with StanD, it can be very difficult at times to try and compare two components by switching back and forth between them. Regardless, I have no doubt that the Magni 2 Uber is a very fine sounding amp given Schiit Audio's track record and it has more than enough power to drive most headphones. I still have an original Lyr that I sometimes use with my planar headphones yet my main and favorite headphone/single source preamp is the Asgard 2. I'd hate to see Schiit raise the price on the Asgard 2 yet if it cost twice as much I think it would be taken more seriously by the audiophile community and press, which is a shame. My hats off to Schiit as you really can't go wrong with most any of their gear...if that sounds like the babbling of a Schiit Audio fanboy, so be it, its based on my experience.


----------



## freedom01

Wryd just arrived today to complete my setup.
 The leds are much brighter than V2 and BF.
 Schiit in Schiit out transformation has been completed.


----------



## rovopio

Quote:


stand said:


> Perhaps she's smarter than all of us.
> By the way, our ability to remember the fine details of audio for comparitive purposes is very short term and we are very easily fooled by ourselves. More than six months ago (Asgard 1) far exceeds our human limitations, I'd keep very short as "Echoic Memory" lasts for a few seconds.


 
  


kljtech said:


> No offense intended, but I have to agree with StanD, it can be very difficult at times to try and compare two components by switching back and forth between them. Regardless, I have no doubt that the Magni 2 Uber is a very fine sounding amp given Schiit Audio's track record and it has more than enough power to drive most headphones. I still have an original Lyr that I sometimes use with my planar headphones yet my main and favorite headphone/single source preamp is the Asgard 2. I'd hate to see Schiit raise the price on the Asgard 2 yet if it cost twice as much I think it would be taken more seriously by the audiophile community and press, which is a shame. My hats off to Schiit as you really can't go wrong with most any of their gear...if that sounds like the babbling of a Schiit Audio fanboy, so be it, its based on my experience.


 
  
 none taken.
 i agree with the both of you. That's actually part of the reason why i didn't put asgard 1 on the list of amps i've heard on that initial post.
  
 Yeah, women around me all doesn't play musical instruments and they aren't audiophiles either, but they're all avid music listeners. _Top 40 music _listeners_. _Which i have to admit is good for me because top 40 songs are catchy as hell. My mom in particular has a 4 hours commuting time everyday, so she log more music listening time than my girlfriend and i on a day-to-day basis. Discounting weekends where i could listen to music all day.
  
 They know that they enjoy the music less from their blackberry earbuds and their $20 mic headphone, but they don't really need a $500 headphone either to _feel _the music. Up until a certain tipping point, airier sound, better separation, larger soundstage, or more controlled bass doesn't mean anything to them, as long as they can _feel _the music, it's all well and good.
 Probably the fact that none of them play musical instruments (i don' either) helped with this obliviousness.
  
 They all have different reasons to choose their own headphones or IEMs, like my girlfriend choose the mdr-1r so she doesn't have to deal with skype calls using her logitech. My sister like the m100 because she's a little rough with her things, and my mom use that fidelio s2 because she commutes by train. Note that they were all fine with my grado sr60 and then sr80e... and doesn't particularly finds them any different than my dt880.
  
 Cheap laptop hisses though so everybody around me uses fiio e10k and they seems to really enjoy it. My gf in particular use my magni 2 uber with her mdr-1r and my grado sr80e more than i use them. Partially why she can say WA7 _is not better _than the magni 2 uber at home.
  
 I told her i really like the form of WA7 fireflies, and if it's like $500 or so i would seriously consider buying it just because. She said if i want to buy it because it's the _Hermes _of amplifier world go ahead, but at $1200, she said i really only buying a squared aluminium glass box that doesn't sound any different than my small sharp aluminium box at home.
 She did say she wants the magni 2 uber if i ever buy the WA7 fireflies just because it looks cuter than her fiio e10k.
  
 ---------
 Funny story, my mom and my girlfriend bonded a lot over music but since mom has more disposable income, recently when she was introduced to Lenka, she bought all Lenka albums she could find locally, and ordered from Amazon those she can't ordered locally. I told her that she couldn't import more than 10 CDs at once because it will be counted as _intent to distribute _by customs, and she said, alright fine if that actually happens i'll ask your sister to pirate them since she already bought them and feel entitled to them. Piracy here is completely unregulated by the way, while anything imported above $50 gets 30-60% tax, or in case of blurays, it's $2 per second (equal to a movie theater film roll).
 ---------
  
 And that's why i think music is universal and people would benefit from getting a decent setup, on the other hand liking high fidelity sound reproduction is a hobby. And in the entry-level spectrum, the schiit mini stack or the mini-uber stack has their place for casual listeners.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Main reason I want the Ragnarok is to use it with headphones that require a lot more power than my Magni 2 Uber.


----------



## cspirou

music alchemist said:


> Main reason I want the Ragnarok is to use it with headphones that require a lot more power than my Magni 2 Uber.


 

 If power is the issue than the Lyr or Mjolnir will fill that need quite nicely since they do 6W and 8W into 32 ohms respectively for a fraction of the price of the Ragnarok. If you want to power speakers as well than you'll probably want the Ragnarok.


----------



## Music Alchemist

cspirou said:


> If power is the issue than the Lyr or Mjolnir will fill that need quite nicely since they do 6W and 8W into 32 ohms respectively for a fraction of the price of the Ragnarok. If you want to power speakers as well than you'll probably want the Ragnarok.


 
  
 Yeah, I want the Ragnarok for various reasons, including using it with everything -- possibly even electrostatic headphones via a Woo WEE. Plus the name is too awesome and it looks cool. =P


----------



## cspirou

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, I want the Ragnarok for various reasons, including using it with everything -- possibly even electrostatic headphones via a Woo WEE. Plus the name is too awesome and it looks cool. =P


 

 Oh I am not one to argue against audio candy for sure.


----------



## StanD

@rovopio If one compares dinky earbuds or headphones with quality headphones for the purpose of feeling music, I'd say that dinky is going to lose everytime. I couldn't imagine comparing a pair of $20 earbuds or headphones to something like HE-500's. One would have to pay much more to gain entry to the same ballpark. I can physically feel the bass when listening with my HE-500's, especially the extended sub bass which will be absent on inferior buds or headphones. When listening with the HE-500's I can feel the snap and pop of percussion instruments. I might say the same of my HD600's. One can say this about many other IEMs or headphones, but these will not come cheaply.
 I once read some positive reviews of the Klipsch S4a earbuds and picked up a pair on a whim, despite my better judgement, IMO they stink, I cannot bear to listen with them and am considering setting them aflame. Their bass is poorly defined and their sibilance makes my eyes hurt. I bought them on sale for $75, a waste of money.


----------



## reddog

I recently got a pair of ath bass ear buds and they sucked so they died by Ragnarok lol. I will never do iem/ ear buds again. On another note, I shall be ordering a Asgard 2, at the end of the week. I am totally addicted to Schiit Audio and all their amazing products.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> I recently got a pair of ath bass ear buds and they sucked so they died by Ragnarok lol. I will never do iem/ ear buds again. On another note, I shall be ordering a Asgard 2, at the end of the week. I am totally addicted to Schiit Audio and all their amazing products.


 
  
 Death by Ragnarok...so you mean you murdered them by cranking the volume to max? Hahaha!
  
 IEMs are just as diverse as circumaural headphones. I'm not buying any more IEMs until I can afford the high-end stuff, though.


----------



## BeatsWork

reddog said:


> I recently got a pair of ath bass ear buds and they sucked so they died by Ragnarok lol. I will never do iem/ ear buds again. On another note, I shall be ordering a Asgard 2, at the end of the week. I am totally addicted to Schiit Audio and all their amazing products.


 
  
 And you didn't video for the rest of us?  So very disappointed in you


----------



## reddog

beatswork said:


> And you didn't video for the rest of us?  So very disappointed in you :eek:



Sorry was not thinking. Next time I decided to fry some undeserving headphones I shall record it lol.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> Sorry was not thinking. Next time I decided to fry some undeserving headphones I shall record it lol.


 
  
 I propose a petition to award reddog the custom title: Death by Ragnarok!


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> I propose a petition to award reddog the custom title: Death by Ragnarok!


 

 +1


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> I propose a petition to award reddog the custom title: Death by Ragnarok!


----------



## reddog

beatswork said:


>


Thanks That is too funny.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> I recently got a pair of ath bass ear buds and they sucked so they died by Ragnarok lol. I will never do iem/ ear buds again. On another note, I shall be ordering a Asgard 2, at the end of the week. I am totally addicted to Schiit Audio and all their amazing products.


 
 I hope this was done safely. Do you have a crash dummy rigged for ear buds?


----------



## reddog

cspirou said:


> If power is the issue than the Lyr or Mjolnir will fill that need quite nicely since they do 6W and 8W into 32 ohms respectively for a fraction of the price of the Ragnarok. If you want to power speakers as well than you'll probably want the Ragnarok.



I prefer the single end output of my lyr2 over the single end of the Ragnarok. Shower the balanced out of the Ragnarok is just bloody brilliant. I have yet to hear the Mjolnir, so I can not make any comparisons.


----------



## cspirou

reddog said:


> I prefer the single end output of my lyr2 over the single end of the Ragnarok. Shower the balanced out of the Ragnarok is just bloody brilliant. I have yet to hear the Mjolnir, so I can not make any comparisons.




You think the tubes in the Lyr have any influence on that decision?


----------



## reddog

cspirou said:


> You think the tubes in the Lyr have any influence on that decision?



No I do not think so, the lyr2 puts out more power in single-ended output than does the single-ended output of the Ragnarok. My Alpha Prime's are power pigs and the more power you give them the better they sound..


----------



## 5kylon

Im still having trouble deciding over asgaard 2 or lyr 2 (to be paired with 560 HP's). Given a nice set of tubes, how much warmer and detailed will the lyr 2 sound? The price difference suggests a noticable difference. Who has experience of both?


----------



## David Aldrich

nickj said:


> *Lyr 2 versus Asgard 2*
> 
> Conclusion first. The Lyr 2 is a better amp and I prefer the Asgard 2 anyway (and it is the one I am keeping). The Lyr 2 presents a more detailed, nuanced, and precise sound and image. Overall, the sound is more punctuated (some might refer to this as fast). If you listen to large, complex symphonic recordings exclusively, there is no doubt you should go with the Lyr 2. On the other hand the Asgard 2 is warmer (not in temperature, they are both really hot, and the Lyr 2 is the hotter of the two), and bigger sounding. I have a feeling this Euphonia is a biproduct of higher second order distortion in the output. Normally this is the type of sound that is applied to tube amps, but in this case the solid state was way more "tubey" than the tube amp (I didn't do and rolling though, and have very little desire to do so). In the end this largeness helped the HE560 by filling out the low end (if not actually giving more impact), by providing a little warmth and soundstage. The HE560 is already plenty detailed, more than enough to make many of your recordings sound sub-par. The Asgard 2 is somewhat compensatory then. It is a silly word, but musicality and my ability to emotionally connect with the music is improved with this combination. That said, I think I liked the Lyr 2 slightly more with my AKG Q701s (which doesn't need help with the sound stage or sounding big...with the exception of the low end). It is hard in some ways to let go of the Lyr 2, it might sound great with other headphones if I don't stick with the HE560. On the same hand big dark headphones might not sound as great on the Asgard 2. But the reality is that even though there are differences between the Lyr and Asgard, they are not enormous or really anything more than subtle. Given that I like the sound better with the he560s and the Asgard 2 is half the price of the Lyr 2, keeping the Asgard doesn't feel like much of a long term risk anyway.
> 
> Note: I ended up doing most of my testing on low gain, but switched over to high gain for some comparison. Everything I observed seems to apply to both gain settings, but for whatever reason (I have some theories) is less pronounced with the high gain setting.


 
  
  
 Found that comparison, he seems to prefer the Asgaard 2 to the Lyr 2 with his HE-560s.
  
 My experience was only with the pre-production HE-560 and I think it benefitted from the power of the Lyr, but I've heard since then that they've toned down the treble in the production model and may well not need that extra power to push the low end.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

5kylon said:


> The price difference suggests a noticable difference.


 
  
 price doesn't always mean that


----------



## reddog

I have finally pulled the trigger and ordered a Asgard 2, for my back porch, as well as portable amp, when I go to Virginia later this year. Thanks everyone for your views on the Asgard 2. I am so addicted to the fantastic equipment offered by the folks from Schiit Audio. Now I will save up for the Yggdrasil lol. I need a shirt with a Schiit Audio monkey on my back lol. Thanks Jason and Mike for making a old pirate actor happy again.


----------



## money4me247

blackenedplague said:


> price doesn't always mean that


 
 that is so true. higher price does not necessarily translate into appreciable improvement in performance.


----------



## noobandroid

blackenedplague said:


> price doesn't always mean that


 
 +1
  
 to me, the more expensive it gets, the more features it has embedded, I dont need them so the magni is all I need, sufficient power for 1 single headphone at a time


----------



## Music Alchemist

I wonder if Schiit will ever make an electrostat amp. Now THAT would be worthy of a Norse-mythology-inspired name!


----------



## Tuco1965

music alchemist said:


> I wonder if Schiit will ever make an electrostat amp. Now THAT would be worthy of a Norse-mythology-inspired name!


 
  
 I thought Jason said no to that one.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tuco1965 said:


> I thought Jason said no to that one.


 
  
 I think I heard about that too. It's definitely much more complex, so I can understand that decision. I can still dream, though! It would be awesome to have an amp that can drive the SR-009 and SR-007 to their full potential without having to spend $4K+!


----------



## Tuco1965

music alchemist said:


> I think I heard about that too. It's definitely much more complex, so I can understand that decision. I can still dream, though! It would be awesome to have an amp that can drive the SR-009 and SR-007 to their full potential without having to spend $4K+!


 
  
 I won't argue with that.


----------



## Defiant00

music alchemist said:


> I think I heard about that too. It's definitely much more complex, so I can understand that decision. I can still dream, though! It would be awesome to have an amp that can drive the SR-009 and SR-007 to their full potential without having to spend $4K+!


 
  
 It wasn't because of complexity, it was mainly because it's a way smaller market than even normal headphone amps are.


----------



## Music Alchemist

defiant00 said:


> It wasn't because of complexity, it was mainly because it's a way smaller market than even normal headphone amps are.


 
  
 Oh, yeah, that too.
  
 By the way, if I get the Yggdrasil, I am planning on doing a volume-matched comparison with the Modi 2. I may consult with you about that when the time comes.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

defiant00 said:


> It wasn't because of complexity, it was mainly because it's a way smaller market than even normal headphone amps are.


 
  
 probably 5-10%% of the headphone market.


----------



## money4me247

blackenedplague said:


> probably 5-10%% of the headphone market.


 
 i bet much less than that considering the overwhelming majority of headphones are dynamic. maybe like 99% dynamic, 1% ortho & other. hahah


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> i bet much less than that considering the overwhelming majority of headphones are dynamic. maybe like 99% dynamic, 1% ortho & other. hahah


 
  
 But since we're talking about amps here, and conventional headphone amps can be used with dynamic and planar magnetic / orthodynamic headphones, it would be more like less than one percent electrostatic along with a few other exotic things. And most of the headphone market as a whole (the non-Head-Fi masses) doesn't bother with amps in the first place. So it depends on what metric is being looked at. Within the audiophile community, it could perhaps be five or ten percent who use electrostats.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

money4me247 said:


> i bet much less than that considering the overwhelming majority of headphones are dynamic. maybe like 99% dynamic, 1% ortho & other. hahah


 
  
 I was being extremely generous.


----------



## Razz7

Which combo would be the best for AKG K712's? I have not got a clue with dacs/amps, I would like to use my headphones and have my speakers plugged in at the same time which also uses a 3.5mm to RCA, Thanks.


----------



## noobandroid

razz7 said:


> Which combo would be the best for AKG K712's? I have not got a clue with dacs/amps, I would like to use my headphones and have my speakers plugged in at the same time which also uses a 3.5mm to RCA, Thanks.


 
 try the lower end range first, the magni 2 uber with modi, if you like them, stay there, if not, move up to next schiit


----------



## Guidostrunk

+1 





noobandroid said:


> try the lower end range first, the magni 2 uber with modi, if you like them, stay there, if not, move up to next schiit


----------



## Mingus Ah Um

I purchased one of the black bifrost uber's last week.  For the past 2 years I've been using the DAC on my iPure and haven't had many complaints about it.  About a month ago I decided to try my onkyo SACD player as my source paired with my BHC & HD650's.  I felt like it was pretty significant upgrade over the ipure so I started looking around for a new dedicated DAC.  I had been going back and forth between the Stealth DC-1 & Bifrost.  When I saw the black bifrost available again I jumped on it.  
  
 Anyway, I got it hooked up last night and really enjoyed it.  Initially I don't think I noticed a huge improvement over the ipure, but the sound did seem somewhat more refined. I was only able to listen for about 30 minutes so it wasn't enough time to form much of an opinion other than realizing I was happy with the addition. For the last year I've been extremely happy with my HD650 + BHC  setup but had often wondered if the DAC on my ipure was a bit of a bottleneck.  I'm excited to spend some more time with it this weekend and hopefully form some more opinions about the Bifrost.


----------



## Jayville36

Hi Schist owners....newbie, Schist wannabe here...about to become an owner of Schist....can't decide between the Lyr2/Bifrost Uber stack and the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack...I have the Alpha Dog Prime headphones so I can go balanced...apart from the price jump (willing to go for it if the improvement is likely to be meaningful) one of my hesitations about the M/G stack is that both pieces have been out for long while and seem ripe for an upgrade soon...any thoughts on which direction to go and whether my hesitation about the length of time these 2 pieces have been around?


----------



## Jayville36

Sorry all...autocorrect/spell check strikes again...Schiit


----------



## cspirou

jayville36 said:


> Hi Schist owners....newbie, Schist wannabe here...about to become an owner of Schist....can't decide between the Lyr2/Bifrost Uber stack and the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack...I have the Alpha Dog Prime headphones so I can go balanced...apart from the price jump (willing to go for it if the improvement is likely to be meaningful) one of my hesitations about the M/G stack is that both pieces have been out for long while and seem ripe for an upgrade soon...any thoughts on which direction to go and whether my hesitation about the length of time these 2 pieces have been around?




For the Gungnir you shouldn't have to worry because it is upgradable by design. If you are waiting on an update for the Mjolnir then you are going to end up waiting for a long time. Jason has said himself that you won't be seeing any updates in 2015, only new products. All the other amps basically were updated with features that the Mjolnir already has and still don't perform as well as the Mjolnir. I wouldn't factor possible near term updates in my decision to get the M/G stack.

On a separate topic, it seems like everyone only gets the Bifrost with the Asgard/Valhalla/Lyr and the Gungnir with the Mjolnir. I agree that the stack looks nice but is there anyone that deviates from this? Like a Modi with the Mjolnir? Or maybe something super absurd like a Gungnir with Magni?


----------



## Jayville36

Thank you Cspirou...that is very helpful...would welcome yours and others views on whether I need to go with the USB 2.0 or stick with the optical (I have an iMac as my source).
  
 Regarding your question...good one....I myself was thinking of the Lyr 2/Gungnir or the Mjolnir/BiFrost Uber combo....but, it seems to me that if I am going to go with either the Mjolnir or the Gungnir, I should go with both in order to take advantage of the balanced capabilities...but then of course I have to deal with getting new balanced headphone cables.


----------



## MattTCG

I've MANY Schiit combos over the past few years. But quite possibly my favorite was not a matching stack, but rather gungnir/Asgard 2/ Valhalla 2. I think that people often assume that you've got to run the gun balanced with the mjo or other balanced amp to get the best from it...not true. The gun still offers better performance over the uberfrost gen2 when using the RCA outs. 
  
 I placed the gun in the middle of my desk under the monitor and using a monitor stand from monoprice (perfect fit actually). Then I put the val 2 and a2 to the left and right corners of the desk. The nice thing about this setup was being about to use the dual RCA outs from the gun to run to both amps at the same time. No switching of cables or switchboxes required. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Plus the gun is just an outstanding DAC.


----------



## Rossliew

matttcg said:


> I've MANY Schiit combos over the past few years. But quite possibly my favorite was not a matching stack, but rather gungnir/Asgard 2/ Valhalla 2. I think that people often assume that you've got to run the gun balanced with the mjo or other balanced amp to get the best from it...not true. The gun still offers better performance over the uberfrost gen2 when using the RCA outs.
> 
> I placed the gun in the middle of my desk under the monitor and using a monitor stand from monoprice (perfect fit actually). Then I put the val 2 and a2 to the left and right corners of the desk. The nice thing about this setup was being about to use the dual RCA outs from the gun to run to both amps at the same time. No switching of cables or switchboxes required.
> 
> ...


 

 How true - the Gungnir is a revelation! I use mine single-ended into the NAD 3020/DIY tube amps and balanced into the KGST/Stax rig. Doesn't make me want another DAC that much now.


----------



## Mr Rick

jayville36 said:


> Hi Schist owners....newbie, Schist wannabe here...about to become an owner of Schist....can't decide between the Lyr2/Bifrost Uber stack and the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack...I have the Alpha Dog Prime headphones so I can go balanced...apart from the price jump (willing to go for it if the improvement is likely to be meaningful) one of my hesitations about the M/G stack is that both pieces have been out for long while and seem ripe for an upgrade soon...any thoughts on which direction to go and whether my hesitation about the length of time these 2 pieces have been around?


 
 I'm also interested in hearing from owners of the M / G stack. I'm currently using the Modi 1 with the Valhalla 2, the Asgard 2 and a Lyr 1. I'm planning to add the M /G stack as my next upgrade and would be especially interested to hear about the cans being used with that combination. ( Considering the HD800s or the Beyer T1s, or something from Oppo.)


----------



## cspirou

jayville36 said:


> Thank you Cspirou...that is very helpful...would welcome yours and others views on whether I need to go with the USB 2.0 or stick with the optical (I have an iMac as my source).




I know that the maker of the DAC prefers the optical/coaxial connection over the USB connection because USB was never really meant for streaming audio. I have a Mac too and I plan to go optical on performance/price basis. Using USB plus Wyrd does a lot for the performance but adds $200 for something that isn't likely to be better than the optical output.

The downside is that the optical output in OSX is limited to 24/96. I don't have a lot of audio past 24/96 so its not an issue for me. You can get around this if you are dualbooting with Windows or just get the USB connection.


----------



## wavz

Just ordered my first Schiit!! The Vali Subminiature hybrid headphone amplifier. Stoked to see how this thing pumps some sweet music honey into my ears.


----------



## Mr Rick

wavz said:


> Just ordered my first Schiit!! The Vali Subminiature hybrid headphone amplifier. Stoked to see how this thing pumps some sweet music honey into my ears.


 
 How will you be driving it, and what cans will you be using??


----------



## wavz

mr rick said:


> How will you be driving it, and what cans will you be using??


 

 Right now I'm going to be using it with my Imac and the cans I'm using for the moment are Audio-Technica ATH-M50. And If I like the set up I might move it to my U-turn Orbit turntable.


----------



## Mr Rick

wavz said:


> Right now I'm going to be using it with my Imac and the cans I'm using for the moment are Audio-Technica ATH-M50. And If I like the set up I might move it to my U-turn Orbit turntable.


 
 The Vali should drive those cans nicely. Good luck and enjoy.


----------



## kothganesh

mr rick said:


> I'm also interested in hearing from owners of the M / G stack. I'm currently using the Modi 1 with the Valhalla 2, the Asgard 2 and a Lyr 1. I'm planning to add the M /G stack as my next upgrade and would be especially interested to hear about the cans being used with that combination. ( Considering the HD800s or the Beyer T1s, or something from Oppo.)


 

 Don't know about the Oppos but the neither the 800 or the T-1 works well with the M/G stack. The oaths work much better compared to the high-impedance dynamics, IME.


----------



## Mr Rick

kothganesh said:


> Don't know about the Oppos but the neither the 800 or the T-1 works well with the M/G stack. The oaths work much better compared to the high-impedance dynamics, IME.


 
 Oaths? Some examples please.


----------



## kothganesh

mr rick said:


> Oaths? Some examples please.


 

 Oh crap, I meant orthos...sorry about that. Typically Audez'e, LFF modded Paradox, HE 500 (but not the HE 6)...all IME of course


----------



## Mr Rick

kothganesh said:


> Oh crap, I meant orthos...sorry about that. Typically Audez'e, LFF modded Paradox, HE 500 (but not the HE 6)...all IME of course


 
 Thanks.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kothganesh said:


> Don't know about the Oppos but the neither the 800 or the T-1 works well with the M/G stack. The oaths work much better compared to the high-impedance dynamics, IME.


 
  
 Did you recable both headphones to be balanced? What did you dislike about it?


----------



## Jayville36

If going for balanced cables, what are the facts in determining whether to go with separate left and right channel cables (i.e., dual balanced outputs) versus a single balanced output.  Apart from the capabilities of the AMP of course.  If using the Mjolnir, is it a 'no brainer' to go for the dual output set up?


----------



## Music Alchemist

jayville36 said:


> If going for balanced cables, what are the facts in determining whether to go with separate left and right channel cables (i.e., dual balanced outputs) versus a single balanced output.  Apart from the capabilities of the AMP of course.  If using the Mjolnir, is it a 'no brainer' to go for the dual output set up?


 
  
 Use 4-pin XLR if possible instead of dual 3-pin. At the least, it's more convenient, and both are balanced.


----------



## kothganesh

music alchemist said:


> Did you recable both headphones to be balanced? What did you dislike about it?



Yes I have balanced cables for both. Both HPs were a a little too bright on the Mojo and a tad thinner in SQ.


----------



## Music Alchemist

kothganesh said:


> Yes I have balanced cables for both. Both HPs were a a little too bright on the Mojo and a tad thinner in SQ.


 
  
 Hm, I wonder if you would feel the same way with the Ragnarok.


----------



## Mr Rick

kothganesh said:


> Yes I have balanced cables for both. Both HPs were a a little too bright on the Mojo and a tad thinner in SQ.


 
 Too bright might be a good thing. At my age I'm starting to loose some of my HF hearing.


----------



## zaxdad

Hi
 Received my Modi/Vali combo today. Do I need to leave the vali on for a while to break it in? I figured I would leave it running to break in my new headphones.
 Thanks for any info.
  
 Howard


----------



## spykez

For those that believe in breaking in then yes, it'll be no different than listening to them the whatever many hours it'd take.


----------



## Spiral Out

zaxdad said:


> Hi
> Received my Modi/Vali combo today. Do I need to leave the vali on for a while to break it in? I figured I would leave it running to break in my new headphones.
> Thanks for any info.
> 
> Howard




I would leave it on for a day or so it let the tubes burn in a bit. There was a pretty considerable change in sound quality on my Vali (since sold) in the first few days of use.


----------



## zaxdad

I need some input. I received my modi/vali combo today. I ordered a pair of philips x1 and a pair of hd600.I figured I would try the x1 first since I bought them from Amazon and have easy returns. They seem a little flabby in the bass and rolled off.The dealer I purchased the hd600 has no return policy.I'm trying to figure if it's the headphones or the amp? I'm over sixty years old so I figure I've got some high frequency loss.
 Sorry to be so long winded.
 Thanks for any input.
  
 Howard


----------



## David Aldrich

spykez said:


> For those that believe in breaking in then yes, it'll be no different than listening to them the whatever many hours it'd take.


 
  
  


spiral out said:


> I would leave it on for a day or so it let the tubes burn in a bit. There was a pretty considerable change in sound quality on my Vali (since sold) in the first few days of use.


 

 Make sure you listen to the pair while 'burning in' so that your ears can get used to the sound because that's what is going to change, your ears.


----------



## spykez

Can anyone explain what it is between DACs that cause such a dramatic change in details? I just upgraded to a Bifrost to use with my Asgard 2 coming from the Modi 1. The change was near night and day. The details are so much more pronounced I guess you could say? Keeps making me love these HD 598 cans since I constantly am surprised at what they can do with new gear.
  
 Is it just the sound chip in it or something? I'm not great with this stuff, I just know what sounds good and what I like lol.


----------



## Billheiser

zaxdad said:


> I need some input. I received my modi/vali combo today. I ordered a pair of philips x1 and a pair of hd600.I figured I would try the x1 first since I bought them from Amazon and have easy returns. They seem a little flabby in the bass and rolled off.The dealer I purchased the hd600 has no return policy.I'm trying to figure if it's the headphones or the amp? I'm over sixty years old so I figure I've got some high frequency loss.
> Sorry to be so long winded.
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Howard


 

 Are you saying both headphones sounded flabby and rolled off?  or just the Phillips?
 what's your music source?


----------



## zaxdad

Hi Bill
 I haven't tried the  hd600 yet. I'm trying to come some to amp conclusions before opening the Sennheisers.


----------



## Mr Rick

zaxdad said:


> I need some input. I received my modi/vali combo today. I ordered a pair of philips x1 and a pair of hd600.I figured I would try the x1 first since I bought them from Amazon and have easy returns. They seem a little flabby in the bass and rolled off.The dealer I purchased the hd600 has no return policy.I'm trying to figure if it's the headphones or the amp? I'm over sixty years old so I figure I've got some high frequency loss.
> Sorry to be so long winded.
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Howard


 
 Some reviewers say the X1 is a bit bass heavy. Is that what you mean by flabby?  Have you tried them with several types of music. As to rolled off highs the same reviewer described them as lively. Here is a link.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1
  
 As to your hearing loss, join the club. I'm 65 but still rockin'.
  
 Edit: I should have the X2s by Friday. I'll be driving them with the Modi/Vali stack as well as other Schiit.


----------



## bigalila

mr rick said:


> Edit: I should have the X2s by Friday. I'll be driving them with the Modi/Vali stack as well as other Schiit.


 
  
 Please post your impressions on the X2 with the Modi/Vali.  I'm on the fence about what I want, the X2 or to wait on the ATH-R70X.


----------



## Mr Rick

bigalila said:


> Please post your impressions on the X2 with the Modi/Vali.  I'm on the fence about what I want, the X2 or to wait on the ATH-R70X.


 
 You bet I will.


----------



## StanD

zaxdad said:


> Hi Bill
> I haven't tried the  hd600 yet. I'm trying to come some to amp conclusions before opening the Sennheisers.


 
 You can actually wait to open the box! Not me. You may the only one on head-fi with impulse control.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Man. I'd plug them 600's in and have a listen. Seems like a better way to judge your amp/dac combo. 





zaxdad said:


> Hi Bill
> I haven't tried the  hd600 yet. I'm trying to come some to amp conclusions before opening the Sennheisers.


----------



## nicholars

So with all Schiit they do not have an on/off button on the front? So you have to either leave them switched on at all times or reach around the back?


----------



## StanD

nicholars said:


> So with all Schiit they do not have an on/off button on the front? So you have to either leave them switched on at all times or reach around the back?


 
 Or get a power strip with a switch, or get a plug adapters with a remote control or just reach around the back.


----------



## mikey1964

I don't recall posting here yet about a 'new' Schiit Vali I'd gotten quite recently. This is the second time I've Schiitted, I have a Lyr 1 as well. I'll be using the Vali + Fostex HPA4 stack for my 3rd rig, only snag is the Fostex is black, oh well, can't have everything my way. I'm undecided as to what DAC to get for the Lyr, but I'm leaning towards the iDSD Nano. Could really tell from pics, even though the headphone input jack kind of gave it some scale, but the Vali's pretty small, looks almost like a toy.


----------



## nicholars

stand said:


> Or get a power strip with a switch, or get a plug adapters with a remote control or just reach around the back.


 
  
 Don't they go into standby mode or anything like that?  Whats a plug adapter with remote control?
  
 Its a weird design choice.... I was looking at trying out the Bifrost + an amp... But no power switches or remote control is inconvenient.


----------



## KLJTech

nicholars said:


> Don't they go into standby mode or anything like that?  Whats a plug adapter with remote control?
> 
> Its a weird design choice.... I was looking at trying out the Bifrost + an amp... But no power switches or remote control is inconvenient.


 
  
 The Schiit Audio DAC's and headphone amps I've bought have all had power switches, they're located on the back panel. The only time I've ever used the power switch is the day I received the component and set it up. I simply leave them on all the time and if I needed to turn them off its as easy as reaching behind the unit and flipping the switch. If that's an issue all you need do is plug your gear into a powered strip and turn off the strip. 
  
 I plug all office audio gear in into two separate (one for digital gear and the other for analog) Furman PST 8D's and though they also have a power switch I've only turned those off (and unplugged them) when I was leaving on vacation for a couple weeks. Having the power switch on the back gives the gear a cleaner look and shouldn't be an issue for ya. Good luck!


----------



## nicholars

Here is some feedback for Schiit (if they read this)
  
 1) Similar to asgard 2 but with as much output as the modi uber (for some reason the big amp has half the power of the miniscule one).
  
 2) Release products with power button on front and ideally remote control receiver, or if not at least with a standby mode that comes on after an hour or similar.
  
 3) Release a Dac / amp combo which has the equivalent to a Biifrost + 2w headphone amp in 1 unit and has RCA outs and digital connections...
  
 Not saying that the products are schiit or anything (not even heard them before but seem popular on here) just I think they would be better if they had those things, I bet a lot of people would buy a DAC/AMP combo that had a Schiit Bifrost USB uber DAC and a 2w+ headphone amp in one unit.


----------



## rovopio

nicholars said:


> Here is some feedback for Schiit (if they read this)


 
  
 i think number 2 and number 3 has been addressed by the schiit team either here or on the schiit happened blog.


----------



## nicholars

rovopio said:


> i think number 2 and number 3 has been addressed by the schiit team either here or on the schiit happened blog.


 
  
 What do you mean addressed? They are going to do this in future products or that they gave reasons why they have not done it? To be honest I think there is no excuse for no front power button, there are lots of high end amps with power buttons / standby modes. Obviously from the sales and popularity it is not a problem for a lot of people but it would annoy me a bit.
  
 What did they say about the power buttons and the dac/amp combo? Would prefer not to read 500 pages of threads just to find the info lol.
  
 Also why are there NO dacs in existence that have 2 sets of RCA out which are switchable... So you can have one outputting to a headphone amp and the other to a speaker amp?! Only other options are tape loop on speaker amp or RCA splitters... Which you would need to turn the headphone amp on / off a lot so that rear switch and no remote would be a problem!


----------



## bigalila

nicholars said:


> Also why are there NO dacs in existence that have 2 sets of RCA out which are switchable... So you can have one outputting to a headphone amp and the other to a speaker amp?!


 
  
 The Schiit GUNGNIR has two sets of RCA outs...


----------



## nicholars

bigalila said:


> The Schiit GUNGNIR has two sets of RCA outs...


 
  
 How do you switch between them? Or are they both output at the same time?


----------



## Mr Rick

nicholars said:


> How do you switch between them? Or are they both output at the same time?


 
 Both at the same time.


----------



## bigalila

You can always go with the Schiit mini stack.  Modi2U and Magni2U.  The Magni2U has a set of preamp outs that turn on when you unplug your headphones.  I'm waiting on that option on the Vali.


----------



## JohnBal

nicholars said:


> What do you mean addressed? They are going to do this in future products or that they gave reasons why they have not done it? To be honest I think there is no excuse for no front power button, there are lots of high end amps with power buttons / standby modes. Obviously from the sales and popularity it is not a problem for a lot of people but it would annoy me a bit.
> 
> *Jason has reiterated several times that a power button in the front will not happen any time soon for engineering reasons. Please accept that and lets not rehash this again as it has been gon over ad nauseum in this and other threads.*
> 
> ...


----------



## madwolfa

nicholars said:


> Don't they go into standby mode or anything like that?  Whats a plug adapter with remote control?
> 
> Its a weird design choice.... I was looking at trying out the Bifrost + an amp... But no power switches or remote control is inconvenient.


 
  
 1. No.
 2. It is not weird from engineering standpoint. It is a conscious decision and Jason has already explained it many times.
  
 If it's a deal breaker for you, there are plenty of other options.


----------



## Music Alchemist

nicholars said:


> So with all Schiit they do not have an on/off button on the front? So you have to either leave them switched on at all times or reach around the back?


 
  
 What's so difficult about taking two seconds to reach and flip the switch?
  
 Also, some Schiit products are USB powered, so they turn on and off when you connect and disconnect a USB cable.
  


nicholars said:


> Here is some feedback for Schiit (if they read this)
> 
> 1) Similar to asgard 2 but with as much output as the modi uber (for some reason the big amp has half the power of the miniscule one).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Look again. Asgard 2 has more power than the Magni 2 Uber with higher impedance headphones.
  
 And half the power? No way.
  
 Magni 2 Uber:
  


> *Maximum Power, 16 ohms: *2.1W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *1.5W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *1.2W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 300 ohms: *320mW RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 600 ohms: *160mW RMS per channel


 
  
 Asgard 2:
  


> *Maximum Power, 32 ohms: *1.0W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 50 ohms:* 1.0W RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 300 ohms: *380mW RMS per channel
> *Maximum Power, 600 ohms: *190mW RMS per channel


 
  
 Most people prefer having the power switch on back. Otherwise, it's just ugly and gets in the way, not to mention unprofessional.
  


> *I want a combined DAC/amp! Why didn’t you put an amp in here? *
> We did. They’re just in different chassis and costs another $99-149. They’re called “Magni 2” and “Magni 2 Uber.” Stack the two and tell yourself it’s a combined DAC/Amp for $198-298. Mix and match for exactly what you want. Ha. Try that with a combined DAC/amp. Also try not to shed any tears as you throw away a perfectly good amp with that amp/DAC when digital technology changes. Face it, you want separates.


 
  


nicholars said:


> What do you mean addressed? They are going to do this in future products or that they gave reasons why they have not done it? To be honest I think there is no excuse for no front power button, there are lots of high end amps with power buttons / standby modes. Obviously from the sales and popularity it is not a problem for a lot of people but it would annoy me a bit.


 
  
 I think there is no excuse for having a front power button. You can't satisfy everyone! ^_^


----------



## Mr Rick

Here is a case where front mounted switches would be convenient. But in a race between convenience and performance , I'll take performance any day.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mr rick said:


> Here is a case where front mounted switches would be convenient. But in a race between convenience and performance , I'll take performance any day.


 
  
 Your rig looks even more epic than I imagined!
  
 ...But most people won't have that inconvenience. I'm thinking most Schiit owners just have theirs on a computer desk.


----------



## Mr Rick

music alchemist said:


> Your rig looks even more epic than I imagined!
> 
> ...But most people won't have that inconvenience. I'm thinking most Schiit owners just have theirs on a computer desk.


 
 It only takes a couple of switched distribution strips behind the gear. At the end of a listening session all it takes is the push of a couple of switches and everything is put to bed.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mr rick said:


> It only takes a couple of switched distribution strips behind the gear. At the end of a listening session all it takes is the push of a couple of switches and everything is put to bed.


 
  
 That's cool. I do the same thing with a video/gaming system in the living room.
  
 For my more complex audio system in my bedroom, I leave the surge protector on at all times, mainly because I have my modem/router and external hard drive array connected to it as well.


----------



## money4me247

lol @Mr Rick, why so manyyy?


----------



## reddog

Does such a epic pile Schiit cause any problems with the heat? With so many units, I can understand a nd why you would prefer power switches on the front. I truly hope you have a great time listening to your music through such a grand rig sir.


----------



## Mr Rick

money4me247 said:


> lol @Mr Rick, why so manyyy?


 
 Variety is the spice of life. I listen to different kinds of music on different amps and cans.


----------



## Mr Rick

reddog said:


> Does such a epic pile Schiit cause any problems with the heat? With so many units, I can understand a nd why you would prefer power switches on the front. I truly hope you have a great time listening to your music through such a grand rig sir.


 
 I love listening to different music genres on different equipment.
  
 As to the heat, I have a small muffin fan on a voltage regulator behind the Valhalla and Asgard.  It isn't really needed but it makes me feel better. The fan is oriented to pull the heat away from the gear.


----------



## StanD

nicholars said:


> Don't they go into standby mode or anything like that?  *Whats a plug adapter with remote control?*
> 
> Its a weird design choice.... I was looking at trying out the Bifrost + an amp... But no power switches or remote control is inconvenient.


 
 Here's one example. You can also get traditional power strips that have remotes.
http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Wireless-Controlled-Electrical-Included/dp/B0087DAW46/


----------



## nicholars

stand said:


> Here's one example. You can also get traditional power strips that have remotes.
> http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Wireless-Controlled-Electrical-Included/dp/B0087DAW46/


 

 Oh right did not know you could do that good idea, thanks. Would be nice to see a biifrost uber with an amp built into it! Gogogogo Schiit make that!


----------



## nicholars

Why would having a switch on the front make performance worse? The Burson does not have an on/off switch either.


----------



## bigalila

nicholars said:


> Why would having a switch on the front make performance worse? The Burson does not have an on/off switch either.


 

 Adding a push button to the front would add extra circuitry, might cause some performance issues, and bring price up.  Having the same manual switch they use now, but on the front, would be ugly.


----------



## Mr Rick

nicholars said:


> Why would having a switch on the front make performance worse? The Burson does not have an on/off switch either.


 
 Best to keep AC lines as far from signal lines as possible. Just good engineering practice. 
  
 I had a preamplifier that had a switch on the front that pushed a metal rod that ran all the way to the back of the chassis to actuate an AC switch.


----------



## Music Alchemist

bigalila said:


> Adding a push button to the front would add extra circuitry, might cause some performance issues, and bring price up.  Having the same manual switch they use now, but on the front, would be ugly.


 


mr rick said:


> Best to keep AC lines as far from signal lines as possible. Just good engineering practice.
> 
> I had a preamplifier that had a switch on the front that pushed a metal rod that ran all the way to the back of the chassis to actuate an AC switch.


 
  
 That reminds me, many electrostatic headphone amplifiers actually do have a power button on the front, and 'stats are more or less as high-end as you can get in the headphone world. I wonder why they do it that way if this is an issue. I do know that they are far more complex than conventional headphone amps, so perhaps it was circumvented somehow.


----------



## Mr Rick

music alchemist said:


> That reminds me, many electrostatic headphone amplifiers actually do have a power button on the front, and 'stats are more or less as high-end as you can get in the headphone world. I wonder why they do it that way if this is an issue. I do know that they are far more complex than conventional headphone amps, so perhaps it was circumvented somehow.


 
 'Stats' need all kinds of high voltages generated. Those high voltages are necessary to make electrostatic cans play.  That may have something to do with the differences in design and placement of components.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mr rick said:


> 'Stats' need all kinds of high voltages generated. Those high voltages are necessary to make electrostatic cans play.  That may have something to do with the differences in design and placement of components.


 
  
 Yep, I assume they know what they're doing.
  


Spoiler: I wouldn't know where to start when the designs can look as crazy as this!


----------



## nicholars

But the lyr + biifrost is £800, not exactly cheap, seems a bit odd that a very expensive amp / dac would not have an on/off switch on the front. Anyway nevermind I am reasonably happy with my £350 dac/amp and it has an on/off switch and remote control! I am sure the Schiit sound good etc. but it seems a bit cheap to not have a switch on an £800 dac / amp combo! Looks like you can fix it with those plug adapters anyway.


----------



## Music Alchemist

nicholars said:


> But the lyr + biifrost is £800, not exactly cheap, seems a bit odd that a very expensive amp / dac would not have an on/off switch on the front. Anyway nevermind I am reasonably happy with my £350 dac/amp and it has an on/off switch and remote control! I am sure the Schiit sound good etc. but it seems a bit cheap to not have a switch on an £800 dac / amp combo! Looks like you can fix it with those plug adapters anyway.


 
  
 I'd say most serious audio gear has the power switch on the back. But all that matters is personal preference! I'm glad you have something that makes you happy and is also relatively affordable.


----------



## nicholars

music alchemist said:


> I'd say most serious audio gear has the power switch on the back. But all that matters is personal preference! I'm glad you have something that makes you happy and is also relatively affordable.


 

 I don't know why they don't, maybe it effects sound quality or maybe they are being lazy, I am happy with the setup in my sig but I would like to try other more expensive amps to see how much better they sound , unfortunately a Burson or Schiit combo is over double the price of my dac / amp and is also less convenient! I have not heard anything better than the D1050 and 1540 for the price, but not much interest in either of them on head-fi for some reason.


----------



## Music Alchemist

nicholars said:


> I don't know why they don't, maybe it effects sound quality or maybe they are being lazy, I am happy with the setup in my sig but I would like to try other more expensive amps to see how much better they sound , unfortunately a Burson or Schiit combo is over double the price of my dac / amp and is also less convenient! I have not heard anything better than the D1050 and 1540 for the price, but not much interest in either of them on head-fi for some reason.


 
  
 It's intentional. Others have touched upon potential sound quality and operational issues, but aside from that, it's just the way professional gear is typically designed.
  
 £350 is about $530. My Schiit stack only cost $248 and can easily drive most headphones out there. I guess you're only looking at the higher-end Schiit.


----------



## nicholars

music alchemist said:


> It's intentional. Others have touched upon potential sound quality and operational issues, but aside from that, it's just the way professional gear is typically designed.
> 
> £350 is about $530. My Schiit stack only cost $248 and can easily drive most headphones out there. I guess you're only looking at the higher-end Schiit.


 
  
 I am not sure that is right though... really expensive equipment usually has remote and standby etc. with buttons on the front. maybe with these cheaper (relatively cheaper but still expensive) amps they are using the best components but cutting costs on the buttons etc. I don't think it actually would effect the sound quality as many extremely expensive amps / dacs have buttons etc.
  
 I was looking at the higher end schiit because I doubt the magni / modi would be an upgrade to what I already have, but the biifrost uber and lyr looks interesting but also expensive!


----------



## Music Alchemist

nicholars said:


> I am not sure that is right though... really expensive equipment usually has remote and buttons on the front. maybe with these cheaper (relatively cheaper but still expensive) amps they are using the best components but cutting costs on the buttons etc. I don't think it actually would effect the sound quality as many extremely expensive amps / dacs have buttons etc.
> 
> I was looking at the higher end schiit because I doubt the magni / modi would be an upgrade to what I already have, but the biifrost uber and lyr looks interesting but also expensive!


 
  
 Some studio equipment that is designed to be placed in racks is like that. All I'm saying is that it's less common for audiophile gear to have everything on the front side.
  
 I honestly don't _know_ the audible differences between all their products, since I've only heard two...but the M2U has higher output power than many amps costing many times the price.


----------



## nicholars

music alchemist said:


> Some studio equipment that is designed to be placed in racks is like that. All I'm saying is that it's less common for audiophile gear to have everything on the front side.
> 
> I honestly don't _know_ the audible differences between all their products, since I've only heard two...but the M2U has higher output power than many amps costing many times the price.


 
  
 Yes the output power on it is very good, higher than some of the bigger and more expensive schiit amps for some reason.


----------



## Music Alchemist

nicholars said:


> Yes the output power on it is very good, higher than some of the bigger and more expensive schiit amps for some reason.


 
  
 Read that long post of mine. It's barely higher with lower impedance headphones and is lower with higher impedance ones.


----------



## David Aldrich

This doesn't quite seems to be the appropriate conversion for 'Schiit *Owners* Unite.' Maybe we should start a 'Things Schiit got wrong' thread.
  
 I for one don't see the issue, if a rear mounted switch is a problem for you buy other gear. There is no correlation between quality and price versus location of the power switch.


----------



## nicholars

david aldrich said:


> This doesn't quite seems to be the appropriate conversion for 'Schiit *Owners* Unite.' Maybe we should start a 'Things Schiit got wrong' thread.
> 
> I for one don't see the issue, if a rear mounted switch is a problem for you buy other gear. There is no correlation between quality and price versus location of the power switch.


 
  
 I was just saying I would prefer it if they had a front power switch or standby mode for convenience. But that remote control plug thing would work anyway so not a problem.


----------



## BeatsWork

david aldrich said:


> This doesn't quite seems to be the appropriate conversion for 'Schiit *Owners* Unite.' Maybe we should start a 'Things Schiit got wrong' thread.
> 
> I for one don't see the issue, if a rear mounted switch is a problem for you buy other gear. There is no correlation between quality and price versus location of the power switch.


 
  
 Actually there is:
  
 Hey guys,
  
 Power switches will stay in the back.
  
 We make our stuff one way, and one way only--no color options, switch options, gain options, etc--in order to maintain the lowest possible price. If we had to customize every product to individual preferences, it would cost much more, we'd have to manage multiple SKUs, we'd probably be out of the color/options you wanted when you wanted them, etc. 
  
 If it's really all that painful to reach around the back, there are these nifty extension cords with power switches at one end, or wireless remote-controlled AC sockets.
  
 All the best,
 Jason


----------



## bearFNF




----------



## ThurstonX

Y'all are weak with the Force.  I use my Jedi mind trix for powering on and off, not to mention adjusting the potentiometer.  Master Yoda is teaching me to roll tubes now


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Y'all are weak with the Force.  I use my Jedi mind trix for powering on and off, not to mention adjusting the potentiometer.  Master Yoda is teaching me to roll tubes now


 
 Liar, you have Rangy do all the manual labor. It won't be long till he runs away from home again.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Has anyone here compared the Bifrost Uber to the Gungnir? A buddy of mine is debating between them.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Okay, let's beat that dead horse one more time. Directly from the Schiit Happens book (2015, Chapter 2...as in, right here on Head-Fi.)
  
*Why are our switches on the back? Lots of reasons:*
  

In many of our products, it’s simply impossible to put an AC switch on the front, at least in the expected left-side location. The transformers take up too much space, and are frequently only ¼-1/2” away from the front panel. A good AC switch like the one we use on the back needs over an inch of depth
It’s closest to the AC entry point into the chassis, and minimizes the length of AC traces we have to run around the board.  We don’t like AC running all the way down the board, as we’d prefer to keep its field away from more sensitive regulated supplies.
Plus, as Mike said, we like to leave things on.
Plus, there are these things known as power strips that have switches. Some even have remote controls.
  
*Re-engineering to move the switch to the front could be possible in one of two ways:*
  

Very awkward switch position and long AC line runs along the board. How would you like to have a switch that’s 3-4” away from the left edge of the chassis? Nice. Plus, you still now have AC running all over where we wanted to have regulated supplies.
Significant price increase—if it fit. A nifty soft-touch pushbutton controlling an AC relay needs significantly more electronics, plus a keep-alive transformer—translating into higher costs, assuming the extra transformer would even fit.
  
 So, I think it’s a comfortable assumption that the switches will stay on the back.
  
_*And my aside:* I completely understand that we cannot make everyone happy with all of our design/engineering/aesthetic choices, and that our products may not 100% exactly fit your needs. And that is totally fine. There are plenty of great products out there, I hope you find one that makes you happy._


----------



## Guidostrunk

*facepalm Man am I glad that I don't suffer from SPP(Switch Placement Phobia). Personally, I think the switch is in the perfect place. Keeps the unit clean looking imo.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Does anyone else think even the power switch on the back of the Ragnarok is eye candy?


----------



## MattTCG

jason stoddard said:


> Okay, let's beat that dead horse one more time. Directly from the Schiit Happens book (2015, Chapter 2...as in, right here on Head-Fi.)
> 
> *Why are our switches on the back? Lots of reasons:*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah yeah, but can I get my schiit product in black. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Sorry, I couldn't resist. I love my Schiit (products).


----------



## StanD

Oh Schiit, we have Jason back onto the switch Schiit. I guess that some of us are joking like me and others are busting his chops. OK gang, it ain't happening, but joking about it is fun.


----------



## David Aldrich

There isn't much difference in typed text between a sarcastic comment wanting to be funny and whining.


----------



## David Aldrich

music alchemist said:


> Does anyone else think even the power switch on the back of the Ragnarok is eye candy?


 

 I personally like the stemmed toggle switches on just about everything else more than those rockers, however I understand that the inrush current for the Ragnarok would just about destroy the smaller switches in short order.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I kinda like the switch on the back. If it were in the front it'd clutter all the aluminum and painted steel! I love just.. looking at it..


----------



## jaaron53

Hey, I'm new member of head-fi (although i've read it for quite some time) and I am looking into ordering myself some nice schiit. What do you guys recommend for my first dac/amp setup?


----------



## David Aldrich

Check out the guide on Schiit.com. It really depends on how much you want to spend.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jaaron53 said:


> Hey, I'm new member of head-fi (although i've read it for quite some time) and I am looking into ordering myself some nice schiit. What do you guys recommend for my first dac/amp setup?


 
  
 If you're just going to be using it with the HP50 (as your avatar suggests), all you need is the Magni 2 (or Magni 2 Uber) and Modi 2 (or Modi 2 Uber). You don't even need an amp for that headphone, technically, but if you're going to get more headphones, it could be a good investment.


----------



## nicholars

Well the Schiit seem to be the best sound quality / performance (from reports on here) and also I like the website and the way Schiit has gone about making products etc. And also responding on head-fi is good, most brands don't do that... But I would find the lack of switch a bit annoying coming from a dac / amp with buttons and a remote control. The remote control plugs look like a solution to that so not as much of a problem.


----------



## bearFNF

^^^OK, thanks for letting us know...


----------



## nicholars

bearfnf said:


> ^^^OK, thanks for letting us know...


 
  
 Abolutely no problem at all old chap... I felt bad for disrespecting the Schiit in the "schiit owners unite" thread so felt it was necessary to post a rebuttal.


----------



## wavz

Just got my Schiit Vali from fedex today. So far I love the sound from it and I know it's only going to get better! I do have one question though for all the experts out there,how much would I benefit from pairing the Vali with the Modi 2 over using the mini from my Imac to rca connections on the back of the Vali?


----------



## KLJTech

Your source is always going to matter, the Modi 2 will give you better sound quality than you get from a computer/laptop. Source material/files make a big difference as well, I'm sure you've heard CD's/albums that were poorly mixed or produced and while you may love the music, the sound quality is poor in comparison to others. Good luck and enjoy your Vali.


----------



## wavz

Oh I understand that the source material is of great importance, I was just asking about inputs. RCA Vs. USB 2.0, Toslink SPDIF, Coaxial SPDIF. I just dont know the limitations of RCA.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Using the modi2 via optical, coaxial or USB, will definitely be an improvement over your internal dac on your mac. From what I understand in reading your post , you're currently using mini>rca>vali correct? Imo the modi2 will be a lot better source in the chain in regards to SQ. 





wavz said:


> Just got my Schiit Vali from fedex today. So far I love the sound from it and I know it's only going to get better! I do have one question though for all the experts out there,how much would I benefit from pairing the Vali with the Modi 2 over using the mini from my Imac to rca connections on the back of the Vali?


----------



## Mr Rick

guidostrunk said:


> Using the modi2 via optical, coaxial or USB, will definitely be an improvement over your internal dac on your mac. From what I understand in reading your post , you're currently using mini>rca>vali correct? Imo the modi2 will be a lot better source in the chain in regards to SQ.


 
 ^^^^^^What he said.^^^^^^^


----------



## wavz

guidostrunk said:


> Using the modi2 via optical, coaxial or USB, will definitely be an improvement over your internal dac on your mac. From what I understand in reading your post , you're currently using mini>rca>vali correct? Imo the modi2 will be a lot better source in the chain in regards to SQ.


 

 Thank you very much. That is how I have it hooked up right now mini>rca>vali. I am new to this whole audiophile world so all this input is very helpful.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No problem. Happy I could help. Cheers
 


wavz said:


> Thank you very much. That is how I have it hooked up right now mini>rca>vali. I am new to this whole audiophile world so all this input is very helpful.


----------



## firefighter0585

Love my modi, vali schiit stack!!!


----------



## Jayville36

Ok...I see the following questions asked relatively recently, but don't seem to see answers, so I want to tee it up again:
  
 Can experiences Schitters give us Schiit wannabees their impression of the following pieces or stacks of Schiit (i.e., what differences are likely to be noticed and are those differences very subtle, moderately noticeable or dramatic, or something else; and for you, is the price differential worth it):
  
 1) Lyr 2 versus Mjolnir
  
 2) Bifrost Uber versus Gungnir
  
 3) Optical versus USB 2.0
  
 4) Balanced versus single 
  
 Personally I am using Alpha Prime Headphones
  
 Lastly...what headphone cables do you recommend?


----------



## Mr Rick

jayville36 said:


> Ok...I see the following questions asked relatively recently, but don't seem to see answers, so I want to tee it up again:
> 
> Can experiences Schitters give us Schiit wannabees their impression of the following pieces or stacks of Schiit (i.e., what differences are likely to be noticed and are those differences very subtle, moderately noticeable or dramatic, or something else; and for you, is the price differential worth it):
> 
> ...


 
 1. The two are totally different beasts. ( See the Schiit website.)
  
 2. The two are totally different beasts. ( See the Schiit website.)
  
 3. If you have an optical device then you need a DAC with optical capability. Otherwise you need USB 2.0 from your PC.
  
 4. Just different ways of accomplishing the same thing.
  
 I'm of the opinion that as long as the cables reach from your amp to your headphones there is no difference.
  
  
 I have nine pieces of Schiit. You can't go wrong no matter what you get.  You make the final decision on what sounds good to you. Our opinions are only what sounds good to us.


----------



## Jayville36

If i could find a place to listen to this Schiit to determine what sounds best to me....I would....the problem with so many higher end audio components these days is you can't find them at a local dealer...I have to try to read every review and comment out there and see if there is a clear consensus building.


----------



## Mr Rick

jayville36 said:


> If i could find a place to listen to this Schiit to determine what sounds best to me....I would....the problem with so many higher end audio components these days is you can't find them at a local dealer...I have to try to read every review and comment out there and see if there is a clear consensus building.


 
 Everything will be available for demo at CanJam here in Costa Mesa in a few weeks. Baring that Schiit does have a 15 day money back guarantee.
  
 Good luck in your quest.


----------



## nicholars

jayville36 said:


> Ok...I see the following questions asked relatively recently, but don't seem to see answers, so I want to tee it up again:
> 
> Can experiences Schitters give us Schiit wannabees their impression of the following pieces or stacks of Schiit (i.e., what differences are likely to be noticed and are those differences very subtle, moderately noticeable or dramatic, or something else; and for you, is the price differential worth it):
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can see how you would want to ask more experienced schitters which are the best stacks of schiit and pieces of schiit, as a newbie to schiit, its always good to get advice from more experienced schiitters as to what are the best peices or stacks of schiit to go for.


----------



## bigalila

You know... there's a lot of guys talking Schiit in this thread.


----------



## KLJTech

You can find out a lot of information about each component on Schiit Audio's website via their info and FAQ's.
  
 That being said, I've never had any issues running everything single-ended and I use the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB). I've never heard the Bifrost Uber yet I've only heard/read great feedback about it. I bought and kept the Gungnir and it replaced a Bryston BDA-1. The Bryston is a great DAC, I simply preferred the Gungnir in my room with my gear. 
  
 The Lyr 2 has plenty of power and dynamics for your Alpha Prime's but if you prefer to use a balanced only amp then you'll want the Mjolnir. Regarding Optical versus USB 2.0, most of us probably use USB 2.0 unless we're having noise issues and decide to go with optical. Honestly, I've never tried the optical, the USB has worked great for me...you can always try both and decide which one you prefer. 
  
 The people at Schiit Audio are great to do business with and whichever components you decide upon I'm sure you'll be more than pleased. I've yet to buy anything from them that didn't sound as if it should have cost more than I paid. What more can you ask for? 
  
 Good luck!


----------



## nicholars

Removed


----------



## ThurstonX

bigalila said:


> You know... there's a lot of guys talking Schiit in this thread.


 
  
 Given it's too late to change the company's name, unless they come out with the *Smack* and/or *Trash*, expect that trend to continue.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Given it's too late to change the company's name, unless they come out with the *Smack* and/or *Trash*, expect that trend to continue.


 
 I'd rather have some Baad Schiit than bad trash.


----------



## bigalila

thurstonx said:


> Given it's too late to change the company's name, unless they come out with the *Smack* and/or *Trash*, expect that trend to continue.


 

 I love the name, their attitudes, and most of all their business tactic.  They build great equipment for a great price.  I love my Schiit!


----------



## nicholars

I wonder why the manufacturer decided on that name, they should have named the individual products things like pfiss, chrap etc.


----------



## Music Alchemist

nicholars said:


> I wonder why the manufacturer decided on that name, they should have named the individual products things like pfiss, chrap etc.


 
  
 You can read about the background and history of the company here:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up
  
 Their line of cables is actually called PYST. The Wyrd originally had Decrapifier in the name.


----------



## Mr Rick

They might have a light-hearted view of themselves but they do build some serious Schiit.


----------



## Genjisleeps

*Newby asking a Noobie Question*
  
 I'm planning on buying the Modi 2/Magni 2 stack soon in the middle of the year so I started to look and videos and forum talks about them like peoples rigs and stuff. What I'm wondering is can you plug these amps/dacs on other things besides computers? I've seen rig pics with people in speakers and stereo systems plugged in and thats when I was wondering do people only use these amps/dacs for the computer.


----------



## Music Alchemist

genjisleeps said:


> *Newby asking a Noobie Question*
> 
> I'm planning on buying the Modi 2/Magni 2 stack soon in the middle of the year so I started to look and videos and forum talks about them like peoples rigs and stuff. What I'm wondering is can you plug these amps/dacs on other things besides computers? I've seen rig pics with people in speakers and stereo systems plugged in and thats when I was wondering do people only use these amps/dacs for the computer.


 
  
 The Uber versions have more inputs and outputs. Read the info on their website for full details.


----------



## StanD

genjisleeps said:


> *Newby asking a Noobie Question*
> 
> I'm planning on buying the Modi 2/Magni 2 stack soon in the middle of the year so I started to look and videos and forum talks about them like peoples rigs and stuff. What I'm wondering is can you plug these amps/dacs on other things besides computers? I've seen rig pics with people in speakers and stereo systems plugged in and thats when I was wondering do people only use these amps/dacs for the computer.


 
 I run them from my Galaxy Note 3 smartphone and Android tablets using an OTG cable as well as an iPod Touch 5G using the CCK cable.
 If you get a Modi 2 Uber and a good Bluetooth AptX to optical converter you can then connect by Bluetooth. If your source supports AptX, that's a plus.
http://www.amazon.com/Nyrius-Blackberry-Smartphones-Connections-BR51/dp/B00EVYJ4VC


----------



## spykez

genjisleeps said:


> *Newby asking a Noobie Question*
> 
> I'm planning on buying the Modi 2/Magni 2 stack soon in the middle of the year so I started to look and videos and forum talks about them like peoples rigs and stuff. What I'm wondering is can you plug these amps/dacs on other things besides computers? I've seen rig pics with people in speakers and stereo systems plugged in and thats when I was wondering do people only use these amps/dacs for the computer.


 
 If you get a DAC that has more than 1 input that's not USB like the Modi 2 uber/bifrost you could technically run other devices through it like a cd player/dvd/bluray etc etc. Amps you can pretty much hook up to anything.


----------



## Jony27

Thinking of getting the Magni/Modi stack for my Q701s.
 I also have a set of Edifier R1600T Plus and was wondering if I can connect it to the stack?
 Would I have to keep switching the plugs on the Magni to switch from headphone to speakers?
 Also, would the Magni override/improve/worsen the built in amp of the R1600Ts?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## noobandroid

jony27 said:


> Thinking of getting the Magni/Modi stack for my Q701s.
> I also have a set of Edifier R1600T Plus and was wondering if I can connect it to the stack?
> Would I have to keep switching the plugs on the Magni to switch from headphone to speakers?
> Also, would the Magni override/improve/worsen the built in amp of the R1600Ts?
> ...


 
 getting the magni 2 uber might solve your concerns, as it has pre out


----------



## Music Alchemist

jony27 said:


> Thinking of getting the Magni/Modi stack for my Q701s.
> I also have a set of Edifier R1600T Plus and was wondering if I can connect it to the stack?
> Would I have to keep switching the plugs on the Magni to switch from headphone to speakers?
> Also, would the Magni override/improve/worsen the built in amp of the R1600Ts?
> ...


 
  
 Via its preamp outputs, the Magni 2 Uber can connect to active speakers as well as speaker amps. (The other Magnis have no such capability.)
  


> Magni 2 Uber also automatically disconnects the preamp outputs when you plug headphones in.


----------



## Jony27

noobandroid said:


> getting the magni 2 uber might solve your concerns, as it has pre out







music alchemist said:


> Via its preamp outputs, the Magni 2 Uber can connect to active speakers as well as speaker amps. (The other Magnis have no such capability.)



Thanks for the replies, unfortunately I have a strict budget of £150 for both and a vali would take up most of it. 
I'm also looking to buy used to fit both in the budget.


----------



## xxToranachxx

Hello, I hope I am on the right page here but here goes... I am considering the Schiit Magni 2 and the Vali.  I am kind of new to HIFI audio and my interest was sparked by my dad(never listens to music...) giving me a pair of Bose QC2 cans.  At the time they were the best I had ever heard.  I also had a pair of Beats in ear that came with my old HTC Thunderbolt(got verizon to give me a pair to close the deal moving over to a smartphone years ago).  Anyway, I now have some sennheiser Momentum's and am trying to get a pair of AT m50x as well.  I use my PC for home listening, here are the specs- Soundblaster Z----> Denon avr-1705------>Headphones.
 I was wondering how much of an improvement would I get by adding one of the 2 amps listed above and also weather I should go with the Magni 2 or Vali.  I know tubes take a while to warm up and have that kind of hissing noise(at least my Vox guitar amp does) and SS amps dont.  I do love the sound of my Vox amp though as it has that "Tube" sound.  Then again, a few people have told me not to get a tube amp because of the music I listen to.  NIN, Tool, Metallica, Blind Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, pretty much alternative, rock and metal from the mid 80's to the late 90's.  Also some new wave and Techno etc...  A friend let me try his out with some really crappy headphones and even they sounded great on that amp.  Will it have as much impact on the sound with better headphones?  Thanks for reading and enduring my post.  As I said, I am new to all this.  Thanks for any replies and answers.  T


----------



## StanD

xxtoranachxx said:


> Hello, I hope I am on the right page here but here goes... I am considering the Schiit Magni 2 and the Vali.  I am kind of new to HIFI audio and my interest was sparked by my dad(never listens to music...) giving me a pair of Bose QC2 cans.  At the time they were the best I had ever heard.  I also had a pair of Beats in ear that came with my old HTC Thunderbolt(got verizon to give me a pair to close the deal moving over to a smartphone years ago).  Anyway, I now have some sennheiser Momentum's and am trying to get a pair of AT m50x as well.  I use my PC for home listening, here are the specs- Soundblaster Z----> Denon avr-1705------>Headphones.
> I was wondering how much of an improvement would I get by adding one of the 2 amps listed above and also weather I should go with the Magni 2 or Vali.  I know tubes take a while to warm up and have that kind of hissing noise(at least my Vox guitar amp does) and SS amps dont.  I do love the sound of my Vox amp though as it has that "Tube" sound.  Then again, a few people have told me not to get a tube amp because of the music I listen to.  NIN, Tool, Metallica, Blind Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, pretty much alternative, rock and metal from the mid 80's to the late 90's.  Also some new wave and Techno etc...  A friend let me try his out with some really crappy headphones and even they sounded great on that amp.  Will it have as much impact on the sound with better headphones?  Thanks for reading and enduring my post.  As I said, I am new to all this.  Thanks for any replies and answers.  T


 
 The Bose QC2 has internal electronics including an Amp, so I doubt that an amp is going to help much  since they are sensitive and are easy to drive you shouldn't really need an amp. I have QC15's for when traveling. The Momentums are easy to drive as well and are made with portable devices in mind.
 The requirements for a guitar amp are far different from an audiophile amp so that's not a suitable means of comparison as one is usually looking for more distortion in a guitar amp, as in soft clipping for tubes, etc.
 I would save up for better headphones and work my way up the electronics chain afterwards. Between the two Schiit amps, I prefer the Magni 2 as I'm in the SS camp. I have both a Magni 1 and a Vali in my amp collection.


----------



## KLJTech

Do you primarily listen to MP3's, CD's or ripped losses files? 
  
 Most of the tube headphone amps I've used haven't had hiss in the background unless I was using extremely easy to drive headphones or IEM's. Keep in mind that the best amp in the world can only sound as good as the source signal it's being feed, so if you're using lower quality MP3's, or your source component isn't up to par you may find yourself a bit disappointed with even a great headphone amp. The Magni 2 is a Hell of a bargain and near impossible to beat at its price point, so if you're wanting to give a headphone amp a try that or the Vali would be a great place to start. You could always add the Modi 2 (USB DAC) down the line having it fed via USB from your PC (no sound card needed) and for $198 end up with a great DAC/headphone amp setup.
  
 I should also say that this will no doubt make you feel the need to then upgrade your headphones...unless you're able to simply be happy with a nice, inexpensive setup and then get back to enjoying your music. Never forget that it should be about enjoying music...not collecting audio gear.


----------



## money4me247

dont worry abt amps until you have a pair of headphones with a high impedance, over 100 ohms, or planar magnetic headphones, or an open pair of headphones designed for home usage. i have personally found that the sonic improvements of amping closed portable headphones to be minimal compared to their cost and your money wld go further into nicer headphones.

edit: a lot of times, the louder volume when used with an amp sounds better because we naturally hear louder as better, but once the volume gets adjusted, you find there really is no difference. just keep that volume bias in mind when trying out stuff.  hope this was helpful


----------



## spykez

lol I used tubes for metal, it can help with the soundstage and I thought it sounded great when I had them. Personally though, I prefer solid state so I'd say the Magni 2 for that music.


----------



## Mr Rick

kljtech said:


> Do you primarily listen to MP3's, CD's or ripped losses files?
> 
> Most of the tube headphone amps I've used haven't had hiss in the background unless I was using extremely easy to drive headphones or IEM's. Keep in mind that the best amp in the world can only sound as good as the source signal it's being feed, so if you're using lower quality MP3's, or your source component isn't up to par you may find yourself a bit disappointed with even a great headphone amp. The Magni 2 is a Hell of a bargain and near impossible to beat at its price point, so if you're wanting to give a headphone amp a try that or the Vali would be a great place to start. You could always add the Modi 2 (USB DAC) down the line having it fed via USB from your PC (no sound card needed) and for $198 end up with a great DAC/headphone amp setup.
> 
> I just also say that this will no doubt make you feel the need to then upgrade your headphones...unless you're able to simply be happy with a nice, inexpensive setup and then get back to enjoying your music. Never forget that it should be about enjoying music...not collecting audio gear.


 
 That last sentence...............famous last words. LOL


----------



## jeremy205100

xxtoranachxx said:


> Hello, I hope I am on the right page here but here goes... I am considering the Schiit Magni 2 and the Vali.  I am kind of new to HIFI audio and my interest was sparked by my dad(never listens to music...) giving me a pair of Bose QC2 cans.  At the time they were the best I had ever heard.  I also had a pair of Beats in ear that came with my old HTC Thunderbolt(got verizon to give me a pair to close the deal moving over to a smartphone years ago).  Anyway, I now have some sennheiser Momentum's and am trying to get a pair of AT m50x as well.  I use my PC for home listening, here are the specs- Soundblaster Z----> Denon avr-1705------>Headphones.
> I was wondering how much of an improvement would I get by adding one of the 2 amps listed above and also weather I should go with the Magni 2 or Vali.  I know tubes take a while to warm up and have that kind of hissing noise(at least my Vox guitar amp does) and SS amps dont.  I do love the sound of my Vox amp though as it has that "Tube" sound.  Then again, a few people have told me not to get a tube amp because of the music I listen to.  NIN, Tool, Metallica, Blind Melon, Smashing Pumpkins, pretty much alternative, rock and metal from the mid 80's to the late 90's.  Also some new wave and Techno etc...  A friend let me try his out with some really crappy headphones and even they sounded great on that amp.  Will it have as much impact on the sound with better headphones?  Thanks for reading and enduring my post.  As I said, I am new to all this.  Thanks for any replies and answers.  T


 

 I'd use the money for a ~$300 pair of headphones instead. The M50s likely won't be any better than the momentums.


----------



## wavz

First off I would like to say that I have had the Vali for only 1 week so far and use it with a pair of ATH-M50 cans. I can honestly say that my world of listening has been greatly improved. I am at heart a jazz lover but also have all kinds of other musical tastes including metal, alt, and just about anything with integrity. So far I am loving the pairing of the Vali with the ATH-M50's. At first when you turn on the pair there is a bunch of high end that is kinda hard to listen to, but after the Vali warms up a bit that seems to go away and your left with this rich sound that is hard to step away from. If you do decide to pick one of these little amps to listen to, give it some burn in time then it seems to shine. I'm also loving it for my older metal, seems to pair with anything I listen to. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Rossliew

The Vali is a very versatile amp and gives that hint of tube lushness making music a tad more musical IMO.


----------



## rovopio

i'll be joining stanD and pirakaphile on owning a hifiman headphone sound, not he-500 like you two, but the he-400i.
 Paid on the 6th, will reach me the end of february hopefully. after chinese new year holiday, though i don't know when.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> i'll be joining stanD and pirakaphile on owning a hifiman headphone sound, not he-500 like you two, but the he-400i.
> Paid on the 6th, will reach me the end of february hopefully. after chinese new year holiday, though i don't know when.


 
  
 Speaking of that...I ordered the Focal Spirit Professional on the same day! From China! It arrived in the US on the 11th, but the tracking has not updated since then. No idea what's going on. Could just be stuck in customs. I contacted the seller about the lag and after reassuring me, he mentioned how they are on holiday for that festival right now and won't really be back until the 28th or something. Does China's postal service also go on holiday during this period?


----------



## rovopio

^
  
 i don't know about that but yeah... chinese new year holiday is pretty long... if it's arrived in the US on the 11th though, it's USPS side than it is China Post side isn't it?


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> ^
> 
> i don't know about that but yeah... chinese new year holiday is pretty long... if it's arrived in the US on the 11th though, it's USPS side than it is China Post side isn't it?


 
  
 I'm basically waiting for the US postal service and/or customs to release the hostage package. Preeeeetty frustrating!
  
 You just made it seem like your package wasn't going to be even sent out until the holiday was over. Then again, I guess you didn't get expedited shipping like me, so never mind.


----------



## ThurstonX

Good luck with the good ol' USPS.  I ordered something off eBay last week.  It shipped from OK City on Friday, was "delivered" in OK City Saturday, and showed up in my mailbox today.  Still says it was delivered on Sat.  Go figure.  Waiting on clearing Customs isn't fun.  Hope they show up soon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Into what Schiit will you be plugging them?


----------



## Music Alchemist

thurstonx said:


> Good luck with the good ol' USPS.  I ordered something off eBay last week.  It shipped from OK City on Friday, was "delivered" in OK City Saturday, and showed up in my mailbox today.  Still says it was delivered on Sat.  Go figure.  Waiting on clearing Customs isn't fun.  Hope they show up soon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Modi 2 and Magni 2 Uber. Same for rovopio.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I'm basically waiting for the US postal service and/or customs to release the hostage package. Preeeeetty frustrating!
> 
> You just made it seem like your package wasn't going to be even sent out until the holiday was over. Then again, I guess you didn't get expedited shipping like me, so never mind.


 
  
 order it locally for $630. they still send it from hong kong or china i guess. i don't know. if i get the open-box deal from razordog audio for $430 + shipping + tax it will probably cost the same but quicker. i just dont want to deal with the hassle of having to go to customs just to pay the import tax. this way, i'd rather sit at home and wait. i hope it'll arrive next week though. Passing next week would suck.


----------



## Edwii

Just ordered a Valhalla 1 from a fellow head-fi'er.  Can't wait to get it.
  
 Maybe not the best place to ask this but; I want to do a couple mods to it:
 1. this will be put on a shelf in a AV rack. As such having the power on the back and the out put on the front is kinda "backwards" for this kind of set up.
 a. I kinda want to solder on a secondary rear jack output; Would that be a problem?  Would it be better to simply remove the front output and relocated in the back via wires?
 b. I also wouldn't mind relocating the power switch to the front, again could this cause problems?
  
 2. I thought butting output meters(like the ones used on mcintosh's) on the front could make for a really cool look, would it be hard to wire them onto the Valhalla, and could it cause interference?   
  
 NOTE: I realize it may have just been better to of gotten an amp that is closer to what I'm asking for, but this is more so about the fun of modding something to make it my own.
  
 3. I also had the idea of tinting the silver finish to brown/metallic brown, maybe via some kind of vinyl or window tint material. Something Transparent to show the factory decals, and still removable if needed. In other words I want a brown/bronze edition Schiit stack  
  
 Would love to have any input/advise on what I can should do to make these mods.


----------



## cuiter23

Some Schiit just came in the mail!


----------



## David Aldrich

edwii said:


> Just ordered a Valhalla 1 from a fellow head-fi'er.  Can't wait to get it.
> 
> Maybe not the best place to ask this but; I want to do a couple mods to it:
> 1. this will be put on a shelf in a AV rack. As such having the power on the back and the out put on the front is kinda "backwards" for this kind of set up.
> ...


 
 I would recommend heading over to the DIY section of the forum. I'm not saying that what you want to do is impossible but doing it well requires the skills of an electrician, and amateur electrical 'engineer', a machinist/metalworker and potentially destroying the amp.
  
 Buying an amp that fits your needs would be the best solution.


----------



## Billheiser

You bought a male badger and want to change it into a female iguana. Yes it is theoretically possible but not practical and it will cause all sorts of problems. 

1. Consider placing the Valhalla sideways, so you can reach both front and back. 
a and b., yes there would be problems with room, and perhaps picking up noise if you did that kind of surgery. 
2. Since this was designed without power meters, where the heck would you wire them into? 
3. Heat. The valhalla's surface temperature would cause problems with any film you applied.


----------



## Guidostrunk

EPIC! Hahahahahahaha 





billheiser said:


> You bought a male badger and want to change it into a female iguana.


----------



## Music Alchemist

For Schiit owners who are irritated by the bright LED lights, you can place LightDims over them.
  
 (Billheiser was kind enough to send me some for free!)


----------



## Genjisleeps

Are these amps good with speakers too? I'm planning on getting a KRK Rokit 5" speaker, maybe 2 of them. I'm wondering if these amp/dacs are meant for speakers too or just only headphones?


----------



## Music Alchemist

genjisleeps said:


> Are these amps good with speakers too? I'm planning on getting a KRK Rokit 5" speaker, maybe 2 of them. I'm wondering if these amp/dacs are meant for speakers too or just only headphones?


 
  
 I think only the Ragnarok can directly drive speakers. Some of the other Schiit amps have preamp outputs that let you connect to active monitors and speaker amps.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone have both Lyr 2 and Vali?  How does the Lyr 2 with good tubes like Voskhods or Telefunkens compare with Vali? 
 I have the Lyr 2 with good tubes and kind of miss the Vali which I sold a while ago.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Oh boy...the volume knob on my Magni 2 Uber just came off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I love this amp, but I had been expecting this to happen for awhile. It isn't very secure. At least I can still use it.
  
 Anyone else have the same thing happen?
  
 Edit: It appears that once reattached, it only pulls off at certain places. Rickety-rackety!


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> Oh boy...the volume knob on my Magni 2 Uber just came off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 if you're in the US just send it back. i think they have good aftersales support from posts and reports i read. i wouldn't even worry if i were you.
 but if that happens to me, that would suuck, because i have to pay the import fee of the replacement item as well.
  
 but my magni 2 uber volume pot is still fine. and i move the unit around a couple times this month. cleaning the tables  around and everything. but i never play with the volume pot anymore though past the first 2 weeks, just leave it stationary while controlling the windows volume instead....


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> if you're in the US just send it back. i think they have good aftersales support from posts and reports i read. i wouldn't even worry if i were you.
> but if that happens to me, that would suuck, because i have to pay the import fee of the replacement item as well.
> 
> but my magni 2 uber volume pot is still fine. and i move the unit around a couple times this month. cleaning the tables  around and everything. but i never play with the volume pot anymore though past the first 2 weeks, just leave it stationary while controlling the windows volume instead....


 
  
 There's no way I'm going without my adorable little M2U for even a day!
  
 It still works fine; I just have to make sure not to pull outwards and ignore how loose it is.


----------



## spykez

music alchemist said:


> genjisleeps said:
> 
> 
> > Are these amps good with speakers too? I'm planning on getting a KRK Rokit 5" speaker, maybe 2 of them. I'm wondering if these amp/dacs are meant for speakers too or just only headphones?
> ...


 
  
 Rokit's are self powered (active) speakers. Ragnarok powers passive speakers


----------



## Music Alchemist

spykez said:


> Rokit's are self powered (active) speakers. Ragnarok powers passive speakers


 
  
 Yep yep. I was just explaining a few things for him.


----------



## goozy

My Magni I powers small bookshelf speakers just fine. Won't rattle the windows but it's loud enough for me.


----------



## Eric510

Hey everyone - anyone out there running LCD-2's (rev2 w/ fazor) w/ a Valhalla 2? I know the original Valhalla had trouble driving orthos but, how do you guys feel about the valhalla 2 in that regard? Initially I bought my schiity tube amp (along with an uber bifrost) for my Grado GS1000e's and have since added a pair of LCD-2's to the mix. I know from what I've read that otl tube amps aren't ideal for orthos but, not having much to compare it to besides my Fiio e12, I'm actually really enjoying the pairing. Hell, I'm not even feeling the need to run this schiit in hi-gain mode... 
Admittedly, I'm relatively new to dedicated headphone amps but, was just curious what you all thought about the pairing.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> Oh boy...the volume knob on my Magni 2 Uber just came off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i didn't exactly baby my magni 2 uber either, i wouldn't be surprised if it's going out someday due to me constantly moving them every 3 days from table to bookshelf for reasons.
 Did you happened to just got a lemon? Or did you play around with the volume knob, like try to pull them or something...


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> Did you happened to just got a lemon? Or did you play around with the volume knob, like try to pull them or something...


 
  
 I'm always very gentle with it. The volume knob is pretty rickety. You can easily move it up and down, albeit slightly, and this happens naturally even when you are just trying to carefully twist it. And look at all that space where you can see inside the amp from the front. I don't mind such things at this price point, anyway.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I'm always very gentle with it. The volume knob is pretty rickety. You can easily move it up and down, albeit slightly, and this happens naturally even when you are just trying to carefully twist it. And look at all that space where you can see inside the amp from the front. I don't mind such things at this price point, anyway.


 
  
 whew! im glad that mine doesn't act like yours does..
 the volume knob is not rickety. It's not easily slightly moved up and down either. I just checked. i'm pretty bad with my stuff if i'm not making a point of _babying _them. my fiio x1 has drop to the floor once and to asphalt once. But otoh, my dt880 is as good as new, as new as hours of worn pad can be called new. There's not a lot of things i baby. if any.  so i wouldn't be surprised if my magni 2 uber broke by the the time magni 5 is out.


----------



## xxToranachxx

Thanks for the reply, I haven't had time in the last couple of days to log on.  I had been planning on getting a set of really nice open backed cans for home use.  Not sure which ones yet.  Probably some HD598's or something like them.  I appreciate everyone answering my questions with a wealth of knowledge(for me anyway).  Thanks everyone.
  
 T


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> whew! im glad that mine doesn't act like yours does..
> the volume knob is not rickety. It's not easily slightly moved up and down either. I just checked.


 
  
 Grasp it and move your hand up and down. It doesn't move at all? (I mean, the entire amp can move from that, but you know what I mean.) You don't hear/feel a tiny click?


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> Grasp it and move your hand up and down. It doesn't move at all? (I mean, the entire amp can move from that, but you know what I mean.) You don't hear/feel a tiny click?


 
  
 what do you mean by moving hand up and down?
 Let's say i move the volume pot normally. My volume pot is fine. it doesn't move at all. it's pretty stationery i'd say.
  
 i don't test for clicks, and i'm not going to, sorry mate. If the click hear / feel is actually induce-able, and if that's not be reversible, i'd be SOL.
  
 I don't move my volume pot at all the past month or so, i just moved them twice. No complain or movement or anything here.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> what do you mean by moving hand up and down?
> Let's say i move the volume pot normally. My volume pot is fine. it doesn't move at all. it's pretty stationery i'd say.
> 
> i don't test for clicks, and i'm not going to, sorry mate. If the click hear / feel is actually induce-able, and if that's not be reversible, i'd be SOL.
> ...


 
  
 I move the volume knob constantly on a daily basis. Maybe that's why.


----------



## Billheiser

Most volume knobs (in the entire world) are held on by a set screw, that presses against the flat side of the shaft of the potentiometer (volume control).  Use a very small screwdriver (or Allen wrench if it applies here) to tighten the screw.  10 seconds you're done.  And now experienced to fix the loose volume knob on all other devices in your future.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I move the volume knob constantly on a daily basis. Maybe that's why.


 
  
 Still. how long have you had yours? less than 2 month. i don't know whether it's a lemon or not, but mine is fine.
 I go as far as saying the volume knob is "sturdy". As in... a $99 product level of "sturdy"...
  
 i remember when i first got them people are talking about the volume pot wobble or something. i think i remember mine wobbles a little too...maybe? i already forgot whether mine wobbles or not when i got them some 2 months ago.
 Um... i keep the magni 2 uber all night. i seldom turn it off. Far from 24/7 but definitely more than 6 hours a day, in average.
  
 mine is pretty solid.
  
 Heat from keeping it on for long hours has anything to do with that? probably not?


----------



## Music Alchemist

billheiser said:


> Most volume knobs (in the entire world) are held on by a set screw, that presses against the flat side of the shaft of the potentiometer (volume control).  Use a very small screwdriver (or Allen wrench if it applies here) to tighten the screw.  10 seconds you're done.  And now experienced to fix the loose volume knob on all other devices in your future.


 
  
 So I should just stick something small enough inside that circular opening on the volume knob and twist it clockwise? The smallest thing I have on hand is something I use to tighten my glasses, but that's still too big to fit.


----------



## Baldr

First pull up..................
 Then pull down...............
  
 If it is disappointing, then -
  
 you may need a new knob.
  
 If so, we can send you one for free with instructions on how to do the job.


----------



## Billheiser

music alchemist said:


> So I should just stick something small enough inside that circular opening on the volume knob and twist it clockwise? The smallest thing I have on hand is something I use to tighten my glasses, but that's still too big to fit.


 

 Correct.  Usually an eyeglass screwdriver is small enough.  Try making a tiny "L" shape on the end of a stiff wire.  Or whack the end of a paper clip with a hammer to flatten the tip.


----------



## Music Alchemist

baldr said:


> First pull up..................
> Then pull down...............
> 
> If it is disappointing, then -
> ...


 
  
 I appreciate the offer, but I'm assuming the problem is merely the connection between the external and internal knobs, so to speak. In other words, I would have to do the same tightening I am attempting now.
  


billheiser said:


> Correct.  Usually an eyeglass screwdriver is small enough.  Try making a tiny "L" shape on the end of a stiff wire.  Or whack the end of a paper clip with a hammer to flatten the tip.


 
  
 I don't think anything I have is small enough to fit!


----------



## Billheiser

OK.  Then just pull the knob all the way off, and glue it back on.  Or use a dab of non-hardening putty (like "Blu-Tak") so it's removable/reversible.


----------



## Music Alchemist

billheiser said:


> OK.  Then just pull the knob all the way off, and glue it back on.  Or use a dab of non-hardening putty (like "Blu-Tak") so it's removable/reversible.


 
  
 It would be easier for me to find a thin metal object. XD
  
 Thanks for your help.


----------



## bearFNF

So, I take it that they changed the knob style when they went to the magni 2? My magni 1 knob has no screw. It is just a press fit on the volume shaft.


----------



## Billheiser

bearfnf said:


> So, I take it that they changed the knob style when they went to the magni 2? My magni 1 knob has no screw. It is just a press fit on the volume shaft.


 

 You're right.  I was looking at my Valhalla 2 which has a set screw type.  I am now looking at the Vali, which I''m sure uses the same knob as Magni's.  It's press fit.  So just pull on and off.


----------



## Guidostrunk

There may be a clip inside the knob , that may have compressed to much when being built. It looks like a pressure fit knob. Best solution is to glue it on or see if you can bend the clip inside the knob , outward. Hope it all works out for you. Cheers. 


music alchemist said:


> It would be easier for me to find a thin metal object. XD
> 
> Thanks for your help.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Anyway, most of the time, I can't even pull the volume knob off. It's mainly only when the volume is set very low.


----------



## Kruppy

Ok here's my Schiit
  
 Home system:  Lyr 2 with Sennheiser HD650
 Work system:  Valhalla with Denon AH-D1000
 Extra:  Vali, being replaced by the Valhalla
  
 I struggled over purchasing the Lyr vs. the Valhalla without having listened to either, now I have both to compare.


----------



## Kruppy

The Vali is going up for sale shortly.


----------



## Guidostrunk

The difference that I found between the Valhalla and the lyr , was dynamics and soundstage. Imo the lyr wins in both categories.YMMV. Sold my Valhalla. 





kruppy said:


> Ok here's my Schiit
> 
> Home system:  Lyr 2 with Sennheiser HD650
> Work system:  Valhalla with Denon AH-D1000
> ...


----------



## Mr Rick

kruppy said:


> Ok here's my Schiit
> 
> Home system:  Lyr 2 with Sennheiser HD650
> Work system:  Valhalla with Denon AH-D1000
> ...


 
 That is a nice problem to have. I also have both and enjoy them both.


----------



## Kruppy

Yeah, I've read the same, but I didn't want to spend that much on another Lyr 2.
  
 The Valhalla I got is new in box but at a significant reduction in cost.  I felt like I had no choice but to try it out.  It's also for my work system, which I typically cannot sit back and just concentrate on the music nearly as much.


----------



## Guidostrunk

No doubt it's an awesome amp. Especially when you get a good deal on it. I probably wouldn't have my lyr, if I didn't see the blow out sale at schiit when they had the lyr1 for $259 b-stock. 





kruppy said:


> Yeah, I've read the same, but I didn't want to spend that much on another Lyr 2.
> 
> The Valhalla I got is new in box but at a significant reduction in cost.  I felt like I had no choice but to try it out.  It's also for my work system, which I typically cannot sit back and just concentrate on the music nearly as much.


----------



## Edwii

Just got my Valhalla 1, which is techinally my first tube amp.
 Question: 
 Is it better to leave it running rather than turn it off and on for short gaps of time; for example, turning it off for 5-10mins for a shower then back on?


----------



## JohnBal

edwii said:


> Just got my Valhalla 1, which is techinally my first tube amp.
> Question:
> Is it better to leave it running rather than turn it off and on for short gaps of time; for example, turning it off for 5-10mins for a shower then back on?


 
 Leaving it on unattended for short periods like that is fine. 24/7 probably not the best idea. Your concern really is tube life. The electronics inside the amp will be fine of course.


----------



## 5kylon

mr rick said:


> That is a nice problem to have. I also have both and enjoy them both.


 
 How do they differ, soundwise?


----------



## Mr Rick

5kylon said:


> How do they differ, soundwise?


 
 I, and other owners of Schiit amps will tell you that there is little or no perceived sonic differences between the Schiit amps.  This is to be expected in a well designed amplifier. An amplifier should add no coloration, only faithfully reproduce what it is given. 
  
 I'm not a tube roller so I cannot speak to the sonic differences obtained by the practice.


----------



## reddog

mr rick said:


> I, and other owners of Schiit amps will tell you that there is little or no perceived sonic differences between the Schiit amps.  This is to be expected in a well designed amplifier. An amplifier should add no coloration, only faithfully reproduce what it is given.
> 
> I'm not a tube roller so I cannot speak to the sonic differences obtained by the practice.



+1 Well said sir.


----------



## zaxdad

Hi all.
 I posted a few weeks ago about receiving my HD600 and a modi/vali combo. High end seems too tame for my 60 year old ears. It was recommended I try some brighter headphones. I did. Tried a pair of Beyer and a pair of v-moda. They were brighter. Problem was I couldn't wear them for any length of time. So,I know it's admirable to make an amp neutral,but is there an amp or amp/dac combo that would be brighter than the Schiit combo?
 Thanks for any input.
  
 Howard


----------



## cuiter23

zaxdad said:


> Hi all.
> I posted a few weeks ago about receiving my HD600 and a modi/vali combo. High end seems too tame for my 60 year old ears. It was recommended I try some brighter headphones. I did. Tried a pair of Beyer and a pair of v-moda. They were brighter. Problem was I couldn't wear them for any length of time. So,I know it's admirable to make an amp neutral,but is there an amp or amp/dac combo that would be brighter than the Schiit combo?
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Howard


 
 Hi Howard,
  
 I don't think the problem is with your amp. However, the tube amps (vali) tend to sound a bit warmer (less tame you could put it that way). Solid State amplifiers would perhaps be just ever so slightly better. I think your best bet would be to try more headphones with more high-end emphasis.


----------



## zaxdad

If I could find something as comfortable as the hd600 i would.  I forgot, I also tried the Philips x1. Liked the sound,but just couldn't wear them for very long. Like the hd 600 for everything but the high end compared to the x1.
  
 Thanks for any input,
 Howard


----------



## money4me247

zaxdad said:


> If I could find something as comfortable as the hd600 i would.  I forgot, I also tried the Philips x1. Liked the sound,but just couldn't wear them for very long. Like the hd 600 for everything but the high end compared to the x1.
> 
> Thanks for any input,
> Howard




try beyer dt990 & hifiman he400i. both are extremely comfy & similar sound quality as the hd600. treble quality is nice on both tho ive never direct compared em to the hd600.


----------



## MWSVette

zaxdad said:


> If I could find something as comfortable as the hd600 i would.  I forgot, I also tried the Philips x1. Liked the sound,but just couldn't wear them for very long. Like the hd 600 for everything but the high end compared to the x1.
> 
> Thanks for any input,
> Howard


 

 I find the HD 700 to be my most comfortable cans.  I do not think they are bright, but there are those that do.


----------



## svetlyo

The high gain for Magni 2 is listed as " 6 (14db)" on the specs page but I think it should be either 5 (14db) or 6 (15.6db). Or am I missing something?


----------



## StanD

zaxdad said:


> Hi all.
> I posted a few weeks ago about receiving my HD600 and a modi/vali combo. High end seems too tame for my 60 year old ears. It was recommended I try some brighter headphones. I did. Tried a pair of Beyer and a pair of v-moda. They were brighter. Problem was I couldn't wear them for any length of time. So,I know it's admirable to make an amp neutral,but is there an amp or amp/dac combo that would be brighter than the Schiit combo?
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Howard


 
 Did you try using some EQ? That's what hearing some aids do. An audiologist can probably measure your hearing and tell you what to do as far as EQ goes. An amp cannot do this for you.


----------



## Mr Rick

zaxdad said:


> Hi all.
> I posted a few weeks ago about receiving my HD600 and a modi/vali combo. High end seems too tame for my 60 year old ears. It was recommended I try some brighter headphones. I did. Tried a pair of Beyer and a pair of v-moda. They were brighter. Problem was I couldn't wear them for any length of time. So,I know it's admirable to make an amp neutral,but is there an amp or amp/dac combo that would be brighter than the Schiit combo?
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Howard


 
 A pair of HD700s might be your only solution.


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> A pair of HD700s might be your only solution.


 
 But that might not track his hearing's curve. We don't want to beat the daylight out of his wallet. Do we?


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> But that might not track his hearing's curve. We don't want to beat the daylight out of his wallet. Do we?


 
 You caught me. LOL


----------



## zaxdad

I can afford either the Hd 700 or the divorce attorney,not both


----------



## rovopio

zaxdad said:


> I can afford either the Hd 700 or the divorce attorney,not both


 
  
 the beyer dt880 is brighter than the hd600, the dt880 pro has tighter clamping force, the dt880 premium has lighter clamping force. The velour pad combined with lighter clamping force is pretty nice. Maybe the one you tried was the pro version?
  
 By the way, my new dt880 premium was also not comfortable the first week or so. I guess after a while the pad conforms to my ear and head shape, now it's my second most comfy headphones.


----------



## StanD

zaxdad said:


> I can afford either the Hd 700 or the divorce attorney,not both


 
 Ah, to be single again.
 Or, keep the wife and try EQ.


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> Ah, to be single again.
> Or, keep the wife and try EQ.




i find that u can improve the sound quality of wife via the purse mod. using expensive leather or slapping a brand name on the purse really decreases harshes and silibance. the expensive shoe mod also works... or just the straight up money mod


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> i find that u can improve the sound quality of wife via the purse mod. using expensive leather or slapping a brand name on the purse really decreases harshes and silibance. the expensive shoe mod also works... or just the straight up money mod


 
 Once it takes jewelry, there will be nothing left for audio goodies.


----------



## AladdinSane

Or just go with the standard: "Oh that? I've had _[insert gear]_ forever."


----------



## StefanJK

aladdinsane said:


> Or just go with the standard: "Oh that? I've had _[insert gear]_ forever."


 
 Yes, a uniform look and feel is very helpful.  All camera lenses look the same to my wife (okay, there are black and white lenses).   The Schiit upgrade philosophy works too.  
  
 The drawback is that you can be quizzed about stuff you've had for years.


----------



## AladdinSane

Never figured out how to slip in a Canon L lens. The different color was too obvious. Glad I (mostly) stayed away from that hobby!


----------



## Aeneas

zaxdad said:


> Hi all.
> I posted a few weeks ago about receiving my HD600 and a modi/vali combo. High end seems too tame for my 60 year old ears. It was recommended I try some brighter headphones. I did. Tried a pair of Beyer and a pair of v-moda. They were brighter. Problem was I couldn't wear them for any length of time. So,I know it's admirable to make an amp neutral,but is there an amp or amp/dac combo that would be brighter than the Schiit combo?
> Thanks for any input.
> 
> Howard




You could look at the Beyer T90. They are supposed to be bright and most people seem to like them with the warmness of a tube. In the US you can get some good deals from eBay stores and the like. 

Like others have said, tube amps are typically warmer than solid state, but maybe you could go for the latter even with a bright headphone. 

The NFB-11 (I'm not trying to push it on you, I have plenty of interest) is bright. I had a modded ATH-AD2000 for about a week and the combination was too bright for me, but I'm young enough to be your grandson. With the HD700 it's fine.


----------



## BeatsWork

zaxdad said:


> I can afford either the Hd 700 or the divorce attorney,not both



 


Are you asking for opinion here?


----------



## BobFiggins

For some reason I thought the SYS might be able to do this, but I'm really not sure. Is there something from Schiit, or anywhere for cheap that would let me switch the RCA input from the Modi 2 Uber to the Vali/Valhalla 2 without actually unplugging the RCA cables every time?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Spiral Out

bobfiggins said:


> For some reason I thought the SYS might be able to do this, but I'm really not sure. Is there something from Schiit, or anywhere for cheap that would let me switch the RCA input from the Modi 2 Uber to the Vali/Valhalla 2 without actually unplugging the RCA cables every time?
> 
> Thanks!




A RCA Y adapter would work. I use this one from audioquest with good results:


----------



## jaywillin

spiral out said:


> A RCA Y adapter would work. I use this one from audioquest with good results:


 
 they also make a flexible one, i've used both, both are excellant


----------



## Spiral Out

jaywillin said:


> they also make a flexible one, i've used both, both are excellant




The flexible one may be a better option if you stack the Vali on top of the modi. On the gold plated adapter, the RCA's from the splitter end up blocking the RCA input of the amp on top (Magni/Vali). You can turn the adapter so the RCA's are horizontal, but then the cables get in the way of the inputs on the Modi a bit. With the flexible adapter there wouldn't be these issues.


----------



## BobFiggins

Thanks for the information! Those gold ones look great, but might make stacking...interesting. Will probably go with the long ones.


----------



## bearFNF

bobfiggins said:


> For some reason I thought the SYS might be able to do this, but I'm really not sure. Is there something from Schiit, or anywhere for cheap that would let me switch the RCA input from the Modi 2 Uber to the Vali/Valhalla 2 without actually unplugging the RCA cables every time?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 From the Schiit FAQ page on the SYS:http://schiit.com/products/sys
*Hey, can you use this in reverse to switch 1 input to two outputs?*
 Yes, with the volume all the way up. But why not just use RCA Y-cables or splitters, like these?
  
or these http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042904


----------



## jaywillin

spiral out said:


> The flexible one may be a better option if you stack the Vali on top of the modi. On the gold plated adapter, the RCA's from the splitter end up blocking the RCA input of the amp on top (Magni/Vali). You can turn the adapter so the RCA's are horizontal, but then the cables get in the way of the inputs on the Modi a bit. With the flexible adapter there wouldn't be these issues.


 
  
  


bobfiggins said:


> Thanks for the information! Those gold ones look great, but might make stacking...interesting. Will probably go with the long ones.


 
 that's how i ended up with the flexible ones, the hard splitters were awkward when stacking schiit


----------



## Billheiser

bobfiggins said:


> Thanks for the information! Those gold ones look great, but might make stacking...interesting. Will probably go with the long ones.


 
 I have 2 new-in-the-box of the gold ones by Audioquest.  Got them for a preamp that I ended up not buying, so I don't use them.  They're $13 on Amazon, make me a lower offer if interested and I'll send them to you.


----------



## BobFiggins

billheiser said:


> I have 2 new-in-the-box of the gold ones by Audioquest.  Got them for a preamp that I ended up not buying, so I don't use them.  They're $13 on Amazon, make me a lower offer if interested and I'll send them to you.


 
 If you mean the long cable ones, maybe. Though is there any issue with using a Sys, cost aside? Would it degrade the signal at all? Not the best option due to being more expensive than an adapter, just curious.
  
 With the cable method, would both amps work at the same time from the same source? Obviously they would play the same thing at the same time. I guess I'm just worried about any signal degradation or volume loss or something.
  
 I also found this: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042904&p_id=7186&seq=1&format=2
  
 That might possibly fit behind the Modi. Might have to rotate them a touch.


----------



## Billheiser

The ones I have are the hard ones as pictured in post #8918 above.


----------



## jaywillin

bobfiggins said:


> If you mean the long cable ones, maybe. Though is there any issue with using a Sys, cost aside? Would it degrade the signal at all? Not the best option due to being more expensive than an adapter, just curious.
> 
> With the cable method, would both amps work at the same time from the same source? Obviously they would play the same thing at the same time. I guess I'm just worried about any signal degradation or volume loss or something.
> 
> ...


 
 i used both splitters with the modi, and modi 2u, allowing me to use two amps at the same time, one tube, one solid state, i couldn't detect any detrimental effect's at all, jason said that there may be some loss of volume, but if there was, i'd say it was VERY minimal 
  
 i started to get the mono price adapters, if space is tight behind your schiit, they could be a better solution, the flexible audioquest splitters are 6" and kinda stiff


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> i used both splitters with the modi, and modi 2u, allowing me to use two amps at the same time, one tube, one solid state, i couldn't detect any detrimental effect's at all, jason said that there may be some loss of volume, but if there was, i'd say it was VERY minimal
> 
> i started to get the mono price adapters, if space is tight behind your schiit, they could be a better solution, the flexible audioquest splitters are 6" and kinda stiff


 
 I use Y cables all the time to drive two amps from one DAC. I then use an A/B switch to connect my headphones to both amps for comparing amps. If there's any attenuation it is not perceptible. There is no loss in SQ as most DACs or line out devices have a reasonably low output impedance and line inputs have a much higher input impedance as to make the load on the DAC negligible, even if two amps are Y connected.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> I use Y cables all the time to drive two amps from one DAC. I then use an A/B switch to connect my headphones to both amps for comparing amps. If there's any attenuation it is not perceptible. There is no loss in SQ as most DACs or line out devices have a reasonably low output impedance and line inputs have a much higher input impedance as to make the load on the DAC negligible, even if two amps are Y connected.


 
 i saw where you posted earlier concerning the a/b switch, good idea, i have only one amp right now, the LD mkiii, but i'm sure that'll change at some point, i like having a solid state amp in addition to a tube amp, i may get another magni 2u, or an a2


----------



## Mr Rick

jaywillin said:


> i saw where you posted earlier concerning the a/b switch, good idea, i have only one amp right now, the LD mkiii, but i'm sure that'll change at some point, i like having a solid state amp in addition to a tube amp, i may get another magni 2u, or an a2


 
  
 I'm driving five amps from two DACs using y-cables and two Schiit SYS. Absolutely no degradation in SQ or S/N.


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> i saw where you posted earlier concerning the a/b switch, good idea, i have only one amp right now, the LD mkiii, but i'm sure that'll change at some point, i like having a solid state amp in addition to a tube amp, i may get another magni 2u, or an a2


 
 The Magni 2U is fantastic deal, they didn't just stick a couple of opamps in a plastic box and call it a day. This amp has some real quality power.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> The Magni 2U is fantastic deal, they didn't just stick a couple of opamps in a plastic box and call it a day. This amp has some real quality power.


 
 couldn't agree more
  
 i've had a couple of "big gun" ss amps, and i'd pick the magni 2u rather than go back to one of them, 
 being primarily a tube guy, i'd rather save some money there and spend more on a tube amp


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> couldn't agree more
> 
> i've had a couple of "big gun" ss amps, and i'd pick the magni 2u rather than go back to one of them,
> being primarily a tube guy, i'd rather save some money there and spend more on a tube amp


 
 A good pure tube amp is going to run a bit more money, especially if you want to drive low impedance cans that need some measure of power. At the end of the day, using a good tube amp, if you compare using an A/B switch, you might not hear much if any difference. Have fun with the journey.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> A good pure tube amp is going to run a bit more money, especially if you want to drive low impedance cans that need some measure of power. At the end of the day, using a good tube amp, if you compare using an A/B switch, you might not hear much if any difference. Have fun with the journey.


 
 i agree, the bryston bha-1 had was outstanding, and as good as if not better than any tube amp i've had


----------



## Tajak

Hey guys,
  
 I have just upgraded my stuff a bit - main current config.: Bifrost (with both upgrades) + Valhalla 2 + Senn. HD 600.
  
 As for the source side (VAIO notebook), is it better to keep a media player volume at 100% and regulate volume using Valhalla 2 knob or is it just doesn't matter?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Tuco1965

tajak said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have just upgraded my stuff a bit - main current config.: Bifrost (with both upgrades) + Valhalla 2 + Senn. HD 600.
> 
> ...


 
 Keep your source maxed and control with the Valhalla.


----------



## Tajak

tuco1965 said:


> Keep your source maxed and control with the Valhalla.


 
  
 Ok man, thanks for the swift reply !!


----------



## Rem0o

tajak said:


> Ok man, thanks for the swift reply !!


 
 If your DAC is half decent, it shouldn't matter though. Convenience should be your primary concern in this case imo.


----------



## jogfi2002

Expected to join this unite tommorrow. My fulla is on the way.

Really interested in how it will sound. I have recently bought AD2000X, need a good DAC/AMP for entry level use replacing my laptop outpu.


----------



## Baldr

And now for something a bit different:
  
 Ok all, it is time for me to address the issues of Windoze vs Mac and a major overlooked solution for some very common problems. At Schiit, we have a significant sample size of users of both OSes.
  
 The statistics: Windows users are about 60% of our users and they represent over 95% of our customer service bandwidth. Customer service costs money; this is reflected in the prices we charge. Therefore Schiit Mac users are subsidizing Schiit Windoze users by a significant margin. Below are some reasons different people may choose either OS:
  
 Why Mac:
  
 You have just completed your male to female sex change, and you want a socially acceptable computer within your new community.
  
 You view a computer as an accessory rather than a tool.
  
 You are a trust fund child of limited intellect but with unlimited computer budget.
  
 You think that since they are so often used in movies, they must be the right brand.
  
 You work professionally in the audio industry and need absolute reliability.
  
  
 Why PC:
  
 You have a small business and therefore properly have a PC to run Microsoft Office. You are way too cheap to get a good audio machine.
  
 You like to dress up only in your underwear, funny hats, and capes in order to game.
  
 You are an engineer used to working with buggy development software with childlike UIs. You do not mind the challenge of risking malware by downloading and installing drivers of questionable compatibility with your system.
  
 You are unsophisticated and do not realize that no one in the audio business utilizes Windoze for any purpose except to develop drivers for other unsophisticated Windoze users.
  
 You like working with fiddly, troublesome files and formats, i.e. DSD.
  
 You actually like dealing with customer service.
  
 You like to live on the edge with a dangerous, insecure OS and enjoy slow and unreliable servers.
  
 You like to impress your friends and flex your geek muscles by making unreliable drivers work with operating systems designed with audio as an afterthought.
  
 You are so worried what people may think of you that you could never entertain the notion of getting a Mac.
  
  
 Take heart, there is a solution! You can become a Linux user. Get a copy of the latest Stable Ubuntu on a thumb drive, or DVD if you are a traditionalist. Boot up the Drive, read a tutorial or two, and try it out without installation. Voila! No drivers, reliable operation, no need for a rubber when you get on the net. All the software is free! By and large, it just works. Fart around with it and if you like it, install so it dual boots on your PC. There are at least 10 popular music players which have widely varied feature sets.
  
 A caveat: Schiit customer service is not a Linux tutorial service. If you are a mensch, give it a go. It is far better mojo than draining customer service with the same old stupid Windoze issues. Although I cannot personally endorse certain claims, many users report better sound as well.
  
 Stop fiddling with random unreproducible problems. Enjoy your music! Have fun! This is a hobby after all.


----------



## FlySweep

^^ POST of the freakin' YEAR, right there... hahahah ^^


----------



## Currawong

baldr said:


> You have just completed your male to female sex change..


 
  
 Mac owner here, since the '80s. The best I can do is speak in a high-pitched voice, sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 True story: I used to run a Mac-related IRC channel, among the membership of which were a number of friends who indeed had had a male to female sex change. They owned Macs before that though.  
  
 Re: Ubuntu: If the install screws up, how do you recover it?


----------



## StanD

currawong said:


> Mac owner here, since the '80s. The best I can do is speak in a high-pitched voice, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Go to the ER.


----------



## Saraguie

stand said:


> Go to the ER.



I think I ate that dish at the Japanese restaurant last night 

MAC user since 2006. Came from a nightmare Alien machine. I had to threaten to write Michael Dell with the 7 month saga and they finally issued a full refund. Had my MACpro for 2 days and bought the stock right away as I knew MAC OSX and the quality of the machine is good.


----------



## superjawes

Mac makes perfect sense...unless you can build your own machine...or if you want to play games...or if you want to run any productivity software 

I can definitely see the appeal of OSX/iMac/Macbook, but I play PC games, which pretty much rules out Mac and Linux entirely, and I like having control over my hardware. Linux might work out better for me in the long run, but it's only free if your time has no value, and I'd rather just set up Windows once and not have to manage workarounds.

By the way, OSX and Linux had more security vulnerabilities in 2014 than any recent version of Windows. IE is the most vulneralbe application, but if you're using IE in 2014, you have bigger problems.

/tech ranting


----------



## ThurstonX

Hilarious post.  I fall into the second category, though I was a *NIX admin some years ago.  It's fun to mess around with Linux, and your points are well-made.  Sadly, running Ceton InfiniTV 4s for TV viewing, esp. copy-protected channels, requires Windows Media Center.  I just did some research about running the Cetons on Linux, and while it will work for most things, it won't for those channels:
  
 "Linux does not support the copy protection that may be assigned to channels by a cable operator. Channels which are Copy Freely (CCI 0x00) will be viewable under Linux. Channels that are flagged Copy Once (CCI 0x02), Copy No More (CCI 0x01) or Copy Never (CCI 0x03) will not be viewable under Linux. Some cable operators, such as Verizon FiOS and Comcast mark most channels Copy Freely."
  
 http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Ceton_InfiniTV_4#Copy_Protection
  
 As a Cramcast customer, I can attest to the fact that almost everything is Copy-Free.  That makes it easy to record something on one of three PCs (I'm sharing a couple tuners over a 5 GHz wireless network; works like a champ) and copy it to any other PC to watch it.
  
 So while I'd love to convert the PC in the Lab to Linux, assuming it could still access the shared tuners, I'm tethered to WMC.  There are ways to exact revenge, but I can say no more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Regardless, I'm enjoying the listening experience via my Stack O' Schiit


----------



## Nic Rhodes

So how do I get UNIX onto my Mac again?


----------



## wavz

Power Button.


----------



## Nic Rhodes

Not a function I have used on the Mac


----------



## wavz

I'm sure that the first time you installed UNIX on your Mac/started it up, you did.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

osx is unix based is what he is trying to say.
  
 or you could install an ubuntu based distro like Xubunu or Mint.


----------



## wavz

blackenedplague said:


> osx is unix based is what he is trying to say.
> 
> or you could install an ubuntu based distro like Xubunu or Mint.



I think Nic Rhodes knew what I was sayin


----------



## Nic Rhodes

wavz said:


> I think Nic Rhodes knew what I was sayin


----------



## hifi nub

thurstonx said:


> Hilarious post.  I fall into the second category, though I was a *NIX admin some years ago.  It's fun to mess around with Linux, and your points are well-made.  Sadly, running Ceton InfiniTV 4s for TV viewing, esp. copy-protected channels, requires Windows Media Center.  I just did some research about running the Cetons on Linux, and while it will work for most things, it won't for those channels:
> 
> "Linux does not support the copy protection that may be assigned to channels by a cable operator. Channels which are Copy Freely (CCI 0x00) will be viewable under Linux. Channels that are flagged Copy Once (CCI 0x02), Copy No More (CCI 0x01) or Copy Never (CCI 0x03) will not be viewable under Linux. Some cable operators, such as Verizon FiOS and Comcast mark most channels Copy Freely."
> 
> ...


 
 Nice. What are those wire wrapped rubber things around your tubes? Antivibration addon?


----------



## tomb

They look like Herbie's Tube Dampers:
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


----------



## rovopio

i own a he400i now.
  
 yeay!


----------



## BobFiggins

rovopio said:


> i own a he400i now.
> 
> yeay!


 
  
 Pretty much the only headphone I'm interested in right now. Thoughts? I don't care if you haven't even had enough time to get your ears warm, what do you think?! Must know!


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> i own a he400i now.
> 
> yeay!


 
 Oh boy, you're in for a ton of fun.


----------



## MWSVette

hifi nub said:


> Nice. What are those wire wrapped rubber things around your tubes? Antivibration addon?


 

 Those are Herbies,  I have 2 sets and they work great...


----------



## rovopio

bobfiggins said:


> Pretty much the only headphone I'm interested in right now. Thoughts? I don't care if you haven't even had enough time to get your ears warm, what do you think?! Must know!


 
  
 what do you want to know specifically?
  
 almost 85% my music are female vocals focus, and the dip on 2k-5k frequency makes the upper midrange/lower treble female vocals doesn't sound as forward and as engaging in comparison to my ma-900.
  
 On the other hand, he-400 is touted for it's bass, and the he400i bass is well, bass. In fact, it's as much bass as i can tolerate without going overboard. The bass hits you in a controlled tight burst, and the lower midrange is thick enough, so the combination of both makes it musical.
  
 In addition, because of the frequency response above, male vocals sounds really good with this. I prefer headphone that can portray female vocals better, but if your music collections are golden generation male musics like the 60s to 80s rock, i think this will sound good.
 i just happened to like female vocals bossa genres better.
  
 hd600 is _the most _natural headphone i've ever heard in the $500 bracket, and the he400i won't change that. It lacks _air _in the treble area, to be as natural as hd600. But comparing that's a tall order.
  
 it's a street price $430-$500 headphone so, you don't have to worry about detail retrieval and clarity. it's great.
  
 Sibilance eliminator! Yeah, this is important. According to frequency response, the he400i has peak on 6-7khz, but then drop down at 8khz-9khz, While i know that my dt880 steadily going up from 6khz-9khz. I don't know how much that matters to your ear, but to mine, this resulted in he400i having very little sibilance.
 In fact, it has very little sibilance that whenever the sibilance happens, i immediately notice it and semi-counting them just because. Like _sibilance happened _"oh, there it is". This is a very high praise coming from me because all my previous headphones are bright, and japanese bossa and pop songs are _shouty _at best so, sibilance is the norm.
   
what else.... it's new so, the clamp is HARD. i have low tolerance to clamp force i guess. I really don't know how people can tolerate older hifiman or audeze, and saying the he400i is by far more comfortable than them. Maybe i can stand weight, but the clamp force, owh, this is claustrophobic enough for me. Though i assume it will get better by time, like any other headphones would.

  
 i did not know what _natural _sounds like is until i'd heard hd600. i did not know what _neutral _sounds like until i'd heard dt880. I did not know what _airy _sounds like, and how important it is, until i listen to he400i.
  
 I'm quoting parts of conquerator2 review of the 400i because i could not say this better myself.
  


> "What separates these two trebles is more than anything, the air. The 400i treble is handled in such a way that it allows very little room for air while the 560 allows for much more. This does mostly affect the decay, timbre and just the way how real and authentic things sound. Best way to demonstrate is with an example. As voices or instruments travel through the air and eventually disappear, they leave a trail around them, a faint presence of sound and movement, what is best described as air, as well as a part of timbre or decay. This air, produced by each instrument or vocal, moves with said instrument or vocal, until it eventually disappears. On the 560, this presence is more and it rises up or moves outside of the field of said instrument/vocal as it decays, almost as if it moved beyond the boundaries of the headphone and their drivers, in a natural and convincing way. If the bow of a violin is moving from left to right and disappears, so does the airy presence. The 400i has less and does not do it nearly as convincingly - you never feel the air 'leaving' the headphone, it stays inside, trapped in the cups and just stops, with a less convincing and shorter decay. This is for me subjectively the most notable deficiency in the 400i's treble, but a very subjective thing indeed. Air is obviously not limited to treble - it manifests itself in the midrange and bass as well, but is not as apparent there as it is here."


  
 Second quote on the lacking air part


> The 400i's treble is a bit more complicated. As has been pointed out, the upper midrange-lower treble region is a bit less present, or to put it more simply, the treble is there but it is slightly overshadowed by the relative forwardness of midrange and bass, while the upper treble region is more present. The treble is smooth and well extended overall, without any major peaks but it just does not carry the airy presence I like, and what I assume is the side-effect of this - a noticeable lack of air to instruments that extend to the treble and female vocals. This negatively affects their timbre and accuracy, among other things. It is still a coloration, however, that might be desirable, especially for those people who don't want much treble energy and seek just that warm-tilt with a slight upper-treble sparkle this provides. This is thus a very subjective flaw. It does not affect other things as much, but it is definitely something to consider if you want a completely even and open treble. Other than the air issue, the treble is pretty great and smooth, and if you don't need lots of air in your music, you'll certainly like it.


  
 I dislike bass and thickness by nature. So what sounds lush or full to some, sounds stuffy to my ears. So, while there are many sub-$500 headphone out there that has very little sibilance due to their bassy sound-sig, or musical sound-sig in way of thick lower midrange, I sort of dislike them.
 For example, V-moda m100 is $420 and momentum is $540 last i checked, (though the current exchange rate should make them somewhat cheaper now), i'm not paying $150 for either of those two headphones. And i have a strong feeling i wouldn't like fidelio x2 either.
  
 So I have to repeat a point. Man! this is the least sibilance headphone i've ever tried that still retains all the detail retrieval, resolution, and clarity, while at the same time, doesn't irritate me with it's thickness.
  
 It's not the last word on resolution, but at $500, well, it punch above it's weight.
  
 Sidenote, i also got to listen to (very underpowered) he-560 a/b with he-400i back in early february when i auditioned them.
  
 At $900, he-560 is fairly priced and sounds really natural. It has less thick midrange, the headphone has enough air, and has even treble response, which makes female vocals sound beautiful, and instruments _sounds like it should_.
  
 That said, he-400i has slightly forward lower midrange and slightly elevated midbass so, while he-560 is more to my liking, some people could make arguments that they could prefer he-400i better. Now... it's $500, how great is that!
 In fact, if you never listen to hd600, or A/B with he-560, or your music collections doesn't heavily comprise of female-vocal-centric songs, i guess that you might not notice he400i _lack of air _and _female vocals portrayal _weakness as apparent as i do.
  
 In summary, I would say, he400i is jack-of-all-trade that makes a nice recommendation for music lover that wants just one headphone, or not really into the _hobby (of buying personal audio gear). _At $500, it's great how he-400i performs. If you get it at way LESS than $500, like say, $400, that should be a crime.
  
 i'd still buy some headphone with frequency response like he-560 int he future, but for most people, they really won't lose any sleep by getting he-400i, as long as they don't do A/B with something twice the price.


----------



## ThurstonX

hifi nub said:


> Nice. What are those wire wrapped rubber things around your tubes? Antivibration addon?


 
  


tomb said:


> They look like Herbie's Tube Dampers:
> http://herbiesaudiolab.net/tube.htm


 
  
 The very thing.


----------



## crixnet

Hi,
  
 Just got my new Uberfrost and Lyr 2.
  
 Sorry if this is a dumb question, but when I stack the amp on the dac, do the tiny self-adhesive feet that come with the Lyr2 give the amp enough separation from the Bitfrost? If not, are there better alternatives to the tiny stock feet?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## bearFNF

crixnet said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just got my new Uberfrost and Lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 

 As long as the Amp is on top you are good to go.  There are alternatives I have seen others use but I do not know specifics, I'm sure someone will chime in with them for you.  You might search the threads for them...have fun with your new gear...


----------



## ThurstonX

crixnet said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just got my new Uberfrost and Lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats, it's a great Stack O' Schiit.
  
 IIRC, Jason said those feet are fine, as the Bifrost can take the heat.
  
 FWIW, I raised up my Lyr quite a bit when I had them stacked.  If you look at the photo I posted recently, you can see the feet I use.  I never bothered removing them.  It's actually two: a foam disc, then the clear plastic feet on those.  Pretty sure I posted the specifics of both somewhere in this thread, or in the Lyr Tube Rollers thread.
  
 HTH.


----------



## BeatsWork

crixnet said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just got my new Uberfrost and Lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 

 My M/G stack ran quite hot with stock feet and adding more clearance made a huge improvement. There are plenty of "Isolation feet" on EBay or Amazon that look quite nice and if you're patient you can find some for around $15. I'm sure you could DIY something much cheaper - try looking at Home Depot in section where they have pads for furniture/chair legs.


----------



## David Aldrich

Sorbothane makes some exceptionally nice feet in a variety of sizes.


----------



## Mr Rick

crixnet said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just got my new Uberfrost and Lyr 2.
> 
> ...


 
 Amazon has everything you need for just a few $$$


----------



## crixnet

Thanks for the info, everyone! I had checked Amazon for some isolation feet before I posted, but they were pointy metal.
  
 Thanks for the Sorbothane tip, David. I found some feet made from it on Amazon.


----------



## StanD

I use the below stick on feet made by 3M on my Schiit. Looks like chocolate in the picture but it's not. They're much better than those little turds that come with our Schiit and add a little more breathing room between Schiit.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OTNGPQ


----------



## rune-san

So I just had an issue this morning. I have a Schiit Valhalla (I) that I've been the single owner of for about 2.5 years now. I've been using it for about 2 and a quarter years with Tubemonger Socket Savers, essentially just to raise the tubes up, as I had an almost miserable time getting the 6n1p tubes out of their sockets and did not want a repeat lest I break a tube or something else!
  
 So fast forward to a few months ago and I was getting an extended quiet crackling sound out of my left channel (fairly quiet). I figured it was about time for tube replacement (still using the original tubes). The sound would go away after about 3 minutes of warming up so I've just been letting it go. This morning, I noticed while watching a movie that there was occasional crackling coming from the left channel, even when going several hours later. Thinking it was unusual, I removed the tubes for the first time since I installed the socket savers and the left power tube (6n6p) had residue all over the pins. I looks at the socket saver and the socket pins were coated plastic just around the melting point. It was semi-soft and easily movable. The socket area around the pins had essentially melted on at least 3 of the pins.
  
 Before I get around to replacing these, I'm trying to figure out what exactly happened? Naturally, the socket savers (shouldn't) melt in standard operation, so I'm curious as to why the tube got hot enough to melt the socket saver.
  
 Anything I should be concerned about? Anyone else have this happen?


----------



## Mr Rick

rune-san said:


> So I just had an issue this morning. I have a Schiit Valhalla (I) that I've been the single owner of for about 2.5 years now. I've been using it for about 2 and a quarter years with Tubemonger Socket Savers, essentially just to raise the tubes up, as I had an almost miserable time getting the 6n1p tubes out of their sockets and did not want a repeat lest I break a tube or something else!
> 
> So fast forward to a few months ago and I was getting an extended quiet crackling sound out of my left channel (fairly quiet). I figured it was about time for tube replacement (still using the original tubes). The sound would go away after about 3 minutes of warming up so I've just been letting it go. This morning, I noticed while watching a movie that there was occasional crackling coming from the left channel, even when going several hours later. Thinking it was unusual, I removed the tubes for the first time since I installed the socket savers and the left power tube (6n6p) had residue all over the pins. I looks at the socket saver and the socket pins were coated plastic just around the melting point. It was semi-soft and easily movable. The socket area around the pins had essentially melted on at least 3 of the pins.
> 
> ...


 
 I would say the problem is not with the tubes or the unit, but the socket savers. Are the socket savers ceramic like the original sockets? I think you said plastic. There is the problem.


----------



## ThurstonX

rune-san said:


> So I just had an issue this morning. I have a Schiit Valhalla (I) that I've been the single owner of for about 2.5 years now. I've been using it for about 2 and a quarter years with Tubemonger Socket Savers, essentially just to raise the tubes up, as I had an almost miserable time getting the 6n1p tubes out of their sockets and did not want a repeat lest I break a tube or something else!
> 
> So fast forward to a few months ago and I was getting an extended quiet crackling sound out of my left channel (fairly quiet). I figured it was about time for tube replacement (still using the original tubes). The sound would go away after about 3 minutes of warming up so I've just been letting it go. This morning, I noticed while watching a movie that there was occasional crackling coming from the left channel, even when going several hours later. Thinking it was unusual, I removed the tubes for the first time since I installed the socket savers and the left power tube (6n6p) had residue all over the pins. I looks at the socket saver and the socket pins were coated plastic just around the melting point. It was semi-soft and easily movable. The socket area around the pins had essentially melted on at least 3 of the pins.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Like Rick said, I'd bet it's the savers.  Tubemonger are very reasonable folks, so I'd contact them, explaining it just as you have here.  I know when I suspected a problem with one of mine, they were eager to get it back to examine it.  I'd guess they'd be interested in this, too, and may have had others report something similar.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## tomb

I'm not sure using socket savers as a permanent solution is a good idea.  I've always measured higher distortion and noise from an amp when a tube(s) is plugged into a socket saver.  It could lead to oscillation with some tubes and cause the tube to overheat.


----------



## David Aldrich

A poorly seated tube could arc between the socket and pin, that could lead to a high heat situation in the socket. If you're getting arcing sounds there is a chance it's not a bad tube but a bad connection.
  
 http://schiit.com/faq/amp-problems
  
 Should try swapping tubes when having issues like that, a bad component has the potential to take other components out with it.


----------



## tomb

thurstonx said:


> rune-san said:
> 
> 
> > So I just had an issue this morning. I have a Schiit Valhalla (I) that I've been the single owner of for about 2.5 years now. I've been using it for about 2 and a quarter years with Tubemonger Socket Savers, essentially just to raise the tubes up, as I had an almost miserable time getting the 6n1p tubes out of their sockets and did not want a repeat lest I break a tube or something else!
> ...


 
  
  


tomb said:


> I'm not sure using socket savers as a permanent solution is a good idea.  I've always measured higher distortion and noise from an amp when a tube(s) is plugged into a socket saver.  It could lead to oscillation with some tubes and cause the tube to overheat.


 
  
 Wow - tubemonger contacted me right away after this post and asked if I had any problems with their product.  I have to say that's an impressive show of customer attention with their product.
  
 However, I have never used any tubemonger product and my comment was just made as a general point of principle.  In using socket-savers, you are introducing both more connective surfaces in the circuit and greater distance between the tubes and the rest of the supporting components.  More connective surfaces mean an increased risk of connection failure over time.  Greater distance can affect some high-performance tubes that are on the edge of stability in the first place.  In some cases, I've seen SMD parts installed directly under the tube sockets because greater distances would lead to oscillation (6C45P, for instance).
  
 Of course, the downside is that if you wear out a primary tube socket in your amp, it needs to be replaced.  Coming from the DIY-side of things, I don't see that as a problem, but I can understand others would view it differently.
  
 Anyway - as I said, all of that is a general comment of principle regarding tube sockets in general.  It has nothing to do with tubemonger's products specifically.


----------



## bretemm

I have a marantz 5009 receiver and a Xbox one, I have the Schiit magi and modi and I'm trying to use the zone 2 of the marantz to plug into the XboxOne so then I can use the optical audio "out" to my Schiit, but, apparently the xboxone has a different optical audio out connections and it won't work? 

Has anyone tried that? Or what do I need to be able to use my Marantz with no optical audio out?


----------



## Spiral Out

bretemm said:


> I have a marantz 5009 receiver and a Xbox one, I have the Schiit magi and modi and I'm trying to use the zone 2 of the marantz to plug into the XboxOne so then I can use the optical audio "out" to my Schiit, but, apparently the xboxone has a different optical audio out connections and it won't work?
> 
> Has anyone tried that? Or what do I need to be able to use my Marantz with no optical audio out?




Are you using HDMI to output audio and video from the xbox to the Marantz? If so the HDMI output will have to be set to uncompressed stereo in the settings menu on the xbox. The Modi will only decode a stereo signal, if the Xbox is outputting a surround signal the Modi will not work.


----------



## bretemm

How I had it was :
I switched the XboxOne to the second input to my tv, 
Then I had the zone2 connected to the cable (Hdmi in) on the XboxOne 
Then I had the optical audio connected to the Xbox to my Schiit 

So 
XBOXONE--TV HDMI--MARANTZ 2ND OUTPUT TO XBOXONE--then--OPTICAL AUDIO OUT FROM XBOX ONE to Schiit 

But it just didn't work 

The second video showed up on the cable app on the xboxone but just no sound from the optical audio to Schiit


----------



## bretemm

How I had it was :
I switched the XboxOne to the second input to my tv,
Then I had the zone2 connected to the cable (Hdmi in) on the XboxOne
Then I had the optical audio connected to the Xbox to my Schiit

So
XBOXONE--TV HDMI--MARANTZ 2ND OUTPUT TO XBOXONE--then--OPTICAL AUDIO OUT FROM XBOX ONE to Schiit

But it just didn't work

The second video showed up on the cable app on the xboxone but just no sound from the optical audio to Schiit





spiral out said:


> Are you using HDMI to output audio and video from the xbox to the Marantz? If so the HDMI output will have to be set to uncompressed stereo in the settings menu on the xbox. The Modi will only decode a stereo signal, if the Xbox is outputting a surround signal the Modi will not work.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! That worked


----------



## gefski

rune-san said:


> So I just had an issue this morning. I have a Schiit Valhalla (I) that I've been the single owner of for about 2.5 years now. I've been using it for about 2 and a quarter years with Tubemonger Socket Savers, essentially just to raise the tubes up, as I had an almost miserable time getting the 6n1p tubes out of their sockets and did not want a repeat lest I break a tube or something else!







tomb said:


> I'm not sure using socket savers as a permanent solution is a good idea.  I've always measured higher distortion and noise from an amp when a tube(s) is plugged into a socket saver.  It could lead to oscillation with some tubes and cause the tube to overheat.




I agree with not using socket savers unless it's an adaptor for some rare tube. I had a Valhalla for a couple years and rolled lots of tubes with no problems. Here's a little tip. Cut a piece of rubberized shelf liner. Great grip, easy removal & insertion.



Or I can sell you some audiophile-grade shelf liner for $100 per square inch.


----------



## wavz

Does anyone have any experience with the Schiit Vali and Sennheiser HD 650 Headphones?


----------



## raybone0566

wavz said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the Schiit Vali and Sennheiser HD 650 Headphones?


Yes, I have the modi/vali combo with the 650's and they pair great together. I have the asgard2 as well but prefer the vali.


----------



## Rossliew

I have a Vali and it pairs well with the HD600 - gives it a more holographic imaging but bass can be a bit rounded/bloated due to the tube input. 

On a similar note, received my Magni 2 Uber yesterday and burning them in now - sounding great with my Grados and the HD600 as well. Somehow, i prefer the Magni/HD600 pairing better than the Vali/HD600 pairing - the extra solid state power really tightens things up and overall it sounds more presentable to me IMO


----------



## cuiter23

rossliew said:


> I have a Vali and it pairs well with the HD600 - gives it a more holographic imaging but bass can be a bit rounded/bloated due to the tube input.
> 
> On a similar note, received my Magni 2 Uber yesterday and burning them in now - sounding great with my Grados and the HD600 as well. Somehow, i prefer the Magni/HD600 pairing better than the Vali/HD600 pairing - the extra solid state power really tightens things up and overall it sounds more presentable to me IMO


 
  
 Some people prefer the lusher sounding tubes with the 600/650s which already have quite a smooth and warm SQ.
  
 While others prefer a more powerful SS amp without adding any additional warmness to the already warm sounding 600/650.
  
*Personally *I prefer the latter.


----------



## rune-san

tomb said:


> Wow - tubemonger contacted me right away after this post and asked if I had any problems with their product.  I have to say that's an impressive show of customer attention with their product.
> 
> However, I have never used any tubemonger product and my comment was just made as a general point of principle.  In using socket-savers, you are introducing both more connective surfaces in the circuit and greater distance between the tubes and the rest of the supporting components.  More connective surfaces mean an increased risk of connection failure over time.  Greater distance can affect some high-performance tubes that are on the edge of stability in the first place.  In some cases, I've seen SMD parts installed directly under the tube sockets because greater distances would lead to oscillation (6C45P, for instance).
> 
> ...


 
 I wanted to say the same thing. When I checked on this thread the next day, I saw a PM and see that Tubemonger contacted me and asked me to open a case with them. I showed them the pictures and they are replacing all four without charge, and want the old ones back (they are covering shipping too) for analysis. Given that these are several years old, I have to say that is stellar customer attention. 
  
 I've ordered new driver tubes because I was unable to remove much of the coating on the pins by cleaning. Driver tubes aren't that expensive, and I would rather ensure that I don't introduce a problem directly in the Ceramic sockets by putting those contaminated driver tubes in there. Pre-amp tubes are fine, so I'm going to keep going on those.

 Thanks again community for being so quick to offer this quiet fan some advice!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

A new Schiit product idea for Jason
  
 A speaker amp with ultra low distortion, class AB, 60-70 watts at 8 ohms and maybe around the $400 range (along with like 6 inputs and a sub out)
  
 Is this possible? I know Schiit is primarily a headphone oriented company but give a little more love to us speaker-heads


----------



## Synergist969

Well...Since we are suggesting additional audio components to be designed/manufactured by Schiit Audio, I would add to the wish list:
  
 A digital/analog pre-amp, (passive or semi-passive(?) in order to preserve pristine signal integrity), accepting both a few high output analog signal sources, as well as an input or two for a web-based digital music feed, be it from a computer OR perhaps directly from the router, and the ability to decode it.  The Primary D/A converter would be OUTBOARD, such as the Yggdrasil, or other high quality converter, so it might be similar to the Cambridge Audio 851N Upsampling Network Music Player, but WITHOUT an on-board D/A converter, (leave that to the outboard D/A to minimize signal degradation).  This component would share the best qualities/abilities of the Cambridge unit, (signal source input and output selection as well as signal attenuation at the pre-amp outs), as well as providing the consumer with the ability to select and only pay for the D/A converter of one's choice. It would be similar to the Ragnarok except for no on-board amplifier, so that if one desired to feed an outboard amplifier/speakers, one would not have to turn on another amplifier that was not being used. Saves on power bills AND room heat...lol...
  
 Would be a fantastic pairing(?) with both the Yggdrasil AND the Ragnarok...a perfect combination!...


----------



## elecen010

Checking in here with my Modi 2 Uber and Asgard 2 driving Mad Dog Pro's....
  
 I love them! But, something is missing compared to loudspeakers...


----------



## SuperU

elecen010 said:


> Checking in here with my Modi 2 Uber and Asgard 2 driving Mad Dog Pro's....
> 
> I love them! But, something is missing compared to loudspeakers...


 
 I too have MDP's and an Asgard 2 but with Uberfrost.
  
 I like my Mad Dog's. And I was hoping for more too. I do realize that there is a difference between speakers and headphones. I often times feel like my headphones are much better. But I do miss the body experience of speakers. Though the more I listen, the happier I am with headphones.
  
 In analyzing all this, one of the areas that we can get the biggest change for the dollars spent is in headphones. So I bought a pair of Audeze LCD X's. Should be here any day. They are 3 times the price of the MDP's so I assume I will experience a big difference. 
  
 My next purchase will likely be the Ragnarok. I know that extra power will open up both my headphones significantly.
  
 I hope you figure out what you are looking for.


----------



## elecen010

superu said:


> I too have MDP's and an Asgard 2 but with Uberfrost.
> 
> I like my Mad Dog's. And I was hoping for more too. I do realize that there is a difference between speakers and headphones. I often times feel like my headphones are much better. But I do miss the body experience of speakers. Though the more I listen, the happier I am with headphones.
> 
> ...




You are correct! I feel like my measly Boston Acoustic Cr57 bookshelf speakers give me more of the "body" experience that I am looking for l...but the sound quality and accuracy of the Mad Dog Pros cannot be beat...

Can I hook up a subwoofer to deliver the body experience while still using my Mad Dog Pros?


----------



## reddog

superu said:


> I too have MDP's and an Asgard 2 but with Uberfrost.
> 
> I like my Mad Dog's. And I was hoping for more too. I do realize that there is a difference between speakers and headphones. I often times feel like my headphones are much better. But I do miss the body experience of speakers. Though the more I listen, the happier I am with headphones.
> 
> ...



Looking forward to your impressions on the LCD-X . Can the Mad DOG Pro's be used as portable s? Thanks hope he a have a good one.


----------



## SuperU

elecen010 said:


> You are correct! I feel like my measly Boston Acoustic Cr57 bookshelf speakers give me more of the "body" experience that I am looking for l...but the sound quality and accuracy of the Mad Dog Pros cannot be beat...
> 
> Can I hook up a subwoofer to deliver the body experience while still using my Mad Dog Pros?


 
 The more I use my MDP the less I miss my speakers - and I have Martin Logan's. But, my room lacks a lot, so am not hearing them as I could be. I find I listen almost exclusively to my headphones now. Depending on your amp, you can hook up a sub. That's one of the reasons I want the Ragnarok. I have a sub waiting to give it a shot.
  
 Though I still believe you will get even more as you upgrade your music and then your headphones.
  
  


reddog said:


> Looking forward to your impressions on the LCD-X . Can the Mad DOG Pro's be used as portable s? Thanks hope he a have a good one.


 
 Happy to let you know once they get here. My MDP ends in a 1/4 in connection, so at the least a mini plug adapter would have to be used. My Note 3 can't drive them worth a crap. They have a similar power requirement as your Alpha Prime's.
  
 Weight wise, I would be fine with using them as portibles. Power wise, I think I would need an amp to drive them. The  LCD X should be able to be driven with my Note 3 - but it really benefits from a good amp from all I've read. Will let you know as I'm going to try them with my Note 3.
  
 Edit - I will add that reading this website is dangerous to your financial health. I had no intention of upgrading anything when I bought my MDP. But then I started reading and interacting with people here. And, I got bit by the upgrade bug. So I went right to the top as much as I could. Not much further "up" one can go from the LCD-X. There are more expensive cans but for me, this is pretty close to the top. We'll see soon as they get in.


----------



## reddog

I use the Fiio E12 to drive my Alpha Prime's, and I am mostly happy. Though sometimes I feel the sounstage, once in a while, sounds congested. I do need to find a portable balanced amp.


----------



## SuperU

reddog said:


> I use the Fiio E12 to drive my Alpha Prime's, and I am mostly happy. Though sometimes I feel the sounstage, once in a while, sounds congested. I do need to find a portable balanced amp.


 
 Let me know if you find a balanced portable amp. I value your opinion.


----------



## reddog

superu said:


> Let me know if you find a balanced portable amp. I value your opinion.



Thanks I will let you know.


----------



## 420745

New member here.  I just got my Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber USB (upgraded from a FiiO E17K/E09K Combo).


----------



## jexby

cormbeep said:


> New member here.  I just got my Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber USB (upgraded from a FiiO E17K/E09K Combo).


 
  
 Welcome!  and yah, nice bump up.   get used to the Lyr 2 stock tubes for a few weeks, then come join us in the Lyr tube rollers thread.
 if your wallet can bear the pain.


----------



## reddog

cormbeep said:


> New member here.  I just got my Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber USB (upgraded from a FiiO E17K/E09K Combo).



Welcome to Club Schiit, may your rig put a smile on your face and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your wallet as you discover tube rolling..


----------



## 420745

Yeah, it's a HUGE upgrade!  I'm very happy with my purchase.
  
 And no, I'm not going to that thread.  You have no idea what lies I told my wife so I can get these.  If she ever finds out how much I spent on these, I'll probably get kicked out of the house.  LOL!
  
 OK... maybe next week I'll take a peek at tubes


----------



## 420745

reddog said:


> Welcome to Club Schiit, may your rig put a smile on your face and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your wallet as you discover tube rolling..


 

 LMAO!  Thanks!


----------



## raybone0566

reddog said:


> I use the Fiio E12 to drive my Alpha Prime's, and I am mostly happy. Though sometimes I feel the sounstage, once in a while, sounds congested. I do need to find a portable balanced amp.


 On eBay there's a ray Samuels intruder someone is selling. Mint condition, starting bid $345.00. That's a good deal. Just search ray Samuels, it will come up.


----------



## Exidrion

I just ordered a Ragnarok about 1.5 weeks ago! I'm excited for it to arrive despite the long wait. Oddly enough I could only find a few reviews of it on here. I guess because it's newish? I'll be pairing it with LCD3's and upgrading from an M-stage!


----------



## jaywillin

cormbeep said:


> New member here.  I just got my Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber USB (upgraded from a FiiO E17K/E09K Combo).


 
  
  


jexby said:


> Welcome!  and yah, nice bump up.   get used to the Lyr 2 stock tubes for a few weeks, then come join us in the Lyr tube rollers thread.
> if your wallet can bear the pain.


 
  
  


cormbeep said:


> Yeah, it's a HUGE upgrade!  I'm very happy with my purchase.
> 
> And no, I'm not going to that thread.  You have no idea what lies I told my wife so I can get these.  If she ever finds out how much I spent on these, I'll probably get kicked out of the house.  LOL!
> 
> OK... maybe next week I'll take a peek at tubes


 
  
 as the others said, nice bump up indeed !
 oh you say that you won't hit the tube rolling thread, but then one day, it will happen, you'll wonder "what if" you'll look on the tube thread, and see you can spend $30-$50 bucks, and get 
 "better" sound, and you'll think, i'll just get one set of tubes , and that's it, well, after that, you're hooked, and a year later, you're sitting there with a desk covered in tubes
 and your wife looking at you like you're some sort of nut ! whoops, i just told my story ! lol  
  
 and we do know what kind of lies we've told your wife, we've told the same lies !  welcome brother, it's safe here


----------



## reddog

raybone0566 said:


> On eBay there's a ray Samuels intruder someone is selling. Mint condition, starting bid $345.00. That's a good deal. Just search ray Samuels, it will come up.



Thanks for heads up.


----------



## cuiter23

As an owner of 2 Schiit products, I can't say anything negatively about the hardware. However, I wish I could say the same for their customer service. At first I did not want to make a public post calling the Schiit guys out because they seem to have a good reputation within the community. I even messaged Jason privately about the issue and its been 2 weeks. The fact that he did not even respond or acknowledge my complaints towards one of his staff *Nick*, just shows me the degree in which he actually gives a damn about his customers. This whole situation was dealt with extremely unprofessionally. As a business owner myself, treating a valued customer like this is unacceptable. So much for brand loyalty. 
  
 This is a long post but I call things how I see it. I'm sure a lot of you praise them for their service, but I feel that fellow head-fi'ers should know about both the good and the bad. I asked info@schiit.com about the differences between a modi and modi2 (I was contemplating which to buy at the time). The conversation is posted below (verbatim).
  
*Me*: Hi Schiit Audio, I am ready to buy a Modi DAC. However, I am not sure what are the differences between the Modi 1 vs Modi 2. If you could shed some light on this that would be greatly appreciated! Regards, Kevin
  
*Schiit*: This is covered in the product description and product FAQ on the website. Nick T.
 
*Me*: Hi Nick,Thanks for the fast response. However, after going back and forth a couple of times between the two pages I could not pinpoint where the differences between the Modi 1 vs Modi 2 are listed. That is why I decided to e-mail you guys as a last resort. Your help is appreciated in advance. Regards, Kevin
  
*Schiit*: It’s in the copy, and on the FAQ tab.
  
*Me*: Thanks but no thanks.
  
I don't know why he could not have given me the answer directly. Is there anything that he has to hide?  I followed up in a friendly manner and said that I could not find it anywhere on the website (and there are no comparisons between the modi1 vs. modi2 on the schiit website) hoping that I would get an answer from the tech directly. I was told the same thing to check online. I admit if it was online, sure I'd give it to him, but the fact that it is not online and Nick would not type a few extra words and take a few extra seconds to do what he is paid to do is unacceptable from any point of view. 
  
Sorry, just thought I would share this rant with you guys. Maybe my expectations were too high given what I've read online about them. I just don't feel like they deserve all that credit especially when you have customer service representatives who don't even answer your question directly and try to impose a superior attitude towards you.


----------



## rovopio

If your issue is sound description comparison, i think they just don't do that in general.
  
 If your issue is Nick writing in short sentences, he did that when i ask too. I'm fairly certain Schiit do that in general. And I like the fact that Schiit replies in short sentences. It's quick, easy to read, and to the point.
  
 I don't know... maybe i'm weird that I'm not looking for long e-mails when asking for support questions.


----------



## jaywillin

cuiter23 said:


> As an owner of 2 Schiit products, I can't say anything negatively about the hardware. However, I wish I could say the same for their customer service. At first I did not want to make a public post calling the Schiit guys out because they seem to have a good reputation within the community. I even messaged Jason privately about the issue and its been 2 weeks. The fact that he did not even respond or acknowledge my complaints towards one of his staff *Nick*, just shows me the degree in which he actually gives a damn about his customers. This whole situation was dealt with extremely unprofessionally. As a business owner myself, treating a valued customer like this is unacceptable. So much for brand loyalty.
> 
> This is a long post but I call things how I see it. I'm sure a lot of you praise them for their service, but I feel that fellow head-fi'ers should know about both the good and the bad. I asked info@schiit.com about the differences between a modi and modi2 (I was contemplating which to buy at the time). The conversation is posted below (verbatim).
> 
> ...


 
 i can understand how this seems to be poor service, but i believe schiit doesn't employ "salesmen" they don't have a sales line
 all my exchanges with schiit have been similar, but it's been the right answer, nick is "support"
 and nick is correct, all the differences are there , all the tabs, description,specs, and faq.
 yeah, as for sales, they will tell you "its all on the website" and it is, they aren't going to tell anyone, which product sounds this way or that way. 
 where they shine, is service after the sale, answers still brief, but they do stand behind their products.
 all this is just the way they do business, your feelings have been brought up before, so you aren't alone in feeling that they are lacking in customer service, it does rub some folks the wrong way, i can see that
 i'm not trying to be argumentative , or defend schiit, just saying its their SOP, 
 and i can say for me, they have done some service for me that went above and beyond what their "obligation" was, that's 
 just my experience


----------



## SuperU

Congratulations and welcome. Very nice choices.


----------



## superjawes

I wouldn't say that the difference is very clear on the website. The Modi 2 FAQ has to spend a lot of time focusing on the difference between Uber and non-Uber versions and a little time on the Optical.

But in the end, it _is_ there, and if you just look at pictures of the back faces, you should be able to see it. The difference is Standard versus Expert mode on Modi 2. Standard M2 is essentially the same as M1, plug-and-play, no drivers, should just work. Expert mode allows M2 to achieve 24/192 sample rates by using drivers (which you'll have to download).


----------



## Jason Stoddard

cuiter23 said:


> As an owner of 2 Schiit products, I can't say anything negatively about the hardware. However, I wish I could say the same for their customer service. At first I did not want to make a public post calling the Schiit guys out because they seem to have a good reputation within the community. I even messaged Jason privately about the issue and its been 2 weeks. The fact that he did not even respond or acknowledge my complaints towards one of his staff *Nick*, just shows me the degree in which he actually gives a damn about his customers. This whole situation was dealt with extremely unprofessionally. As a business owner myself, treating a valued customer like this is unacceptable. So much for brand loyalty.
> 
> This is a long post but I call things how I see it. I'm sure a lot of you praise them for their service, but I feel that fellow head-fi'ers should know about both the good and the bad. I asked info@schiit.com about the differences between a modi and modi2 (I was contemplating which to buy at the time). The conversation is posted below (verbatim).
> 
> ...


 

 I did not reply because I do not reply to PMs.
  
 Also, I see nothing wrong in how Nick handled this. Maybe I need to have him add a sig line that says, "I am not a salesperson. We do not have a salesperson. If you want flowery descriptions and gushing prose, you're going to be disappointed."
  
 Sorry if that ruffled your feathers.


----------



## MWSVette

cuiter23 said:


> As an owner of 2 Schiit products, I can't say anything negatively about the hardware. However, I wish I could say the same for their customer service. At first I did not want to make a public post calling the Schiit guys out because they seem to have a good reputation within the community. I even messaged Jason privately about the issue and its been 2 weeks. The fact that he did not even respond or acknowledge my complaints towards one of his staff *Nick*, just shows me the degree in which he actually gives a damn about his customers. This whole situation was dealt with extremely unprofessionally. As a business owner myself, treating a valued customer like this is unacceptable. So much for brand loyalty.
> 
> This is a long post but I call things how I see it. I'm sure a lot of you praise them for their service, but I feel that fellow head-fi'ers should know about both the good and the bad. I asked info@schiit.com about the differences between a modi and modi2 (I was contemplating which to buy at the time). The conversation is posted below (verbatim).
> 
> ...


 

 OK, I was not going to get into this until I read Jason's response...
  
 I too am an proud owner of several pieces of Schiit.  I love their equipment, it is well built, great sounding and there is nothing else comparable in their price range.  That said I too have contacted Schiit via their preferred method, email and while the responses were not rude, they were short and unhelpful.  I understand Nick is an engineer and not a sales person, but cuiter23 is not the first person to bring this to Jason's attention.  He has even mentioned the issue in his "Schiit happened" thread.   In my business I do not allow my bookkeeper to deal directly with my customers because they will get Schiit responses.  My bookkeeper is great at bookkeeping but terrible at customer service and communication.  cuiter23 tried to pm Jason regarding his issue.  Jason could have been handled the issue same way via PM and it would have been done.  Yet his personal policy is not to respond to PM's, that is his choice however the result is this issue ending up in a public forum.  
  
 Schiit seems to have the attitude, here is our stuff, if you like it great. If you do not that's OK too.  As far as customer service, this is how we do it, if you like it great.  If you do not then tough Schiit.
  
 Now while I have always had that thought in my head while dealing with some my more demanding and questioning customers I have found that such an attitude in practice can cost sales.  If you already have more business than you can handle that is probably OK.
  
 Maybe Schiit will grow enough someday to have someone who is good at responding to questions respond to emails.  Unfortunately I find my best responses to my questions not from the company who I have spent money.  But the Head-Fi members and this and other forums.
  
 I have always known in business that contrary to popular belief the customer is not always right, but they are always the customer and it maybe in the companies best interest to pretend that they are always right.  Even if they know better.
  
 End of rant...  And I do love my Schiit.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

mwsvette said:


> OK, I was not going to get into this until I read Jason's response...
> 
> I too am an proud owner of several pieces of Schiit.  I love their equipment, it is well built, great sounding and there is nothing else comparable in their price range.  That said I too have contacted Schiit via their preferred method, email and while the responses were not rude, they were short and unhelpful.  I understand Nick is an engineer and not a sales person, but cuiter23 is not the first person to bring this to Jason's attention.  He has even mentioned the issue in his "Schiit happened" thread.   In my business I do not allow my bookkeeper to deal directly with my customers because they will get Schiit responses.  My bookkeeper is great at bookkeeping but terrible at customer service and communication.
> 
> ...


 

 How were Nick's responses unhelpful?
  
 Again, if you're looking for sonic comparisons and flowery prose, we don't get into that.
  
 Beyond that, his responses should be helpful, so I'm looking for examples that I can take back to him.


----------



## StanD

jason stoddard said:


> How were Nick's responses unhelpful?
> 
> Again, if you're looking for sonic comparisons and flowery prose, we don't get into that.
> 
> Beyond that, his responses should be helpful, so I'm looking for examples that I can take back to him.


 
 It appears that his response about comparing the Modi 1 and Modi 2 was not correct. IMO that would not be good for customer relations. Since the specs for the Modi 1 are no longer on your website, he could have:
 1) Dug up the old specs and emailed them.
     a) asked you to put that on the website under discontinued or archived products.
 2) Explained that the old specs are no longer on the website and added some further fluff.
  
 I think having an archived products section on the website would be a good idea for supporting customers with older products. Now that you're getting in new generations of products I think that would be a nice gesture to customers owning said products.


----------



## bearFNF

stand said:


> It appears that his response about comparing the Modi 1 and Modi 2 was not correct. IMO that would not be good for customer relations. Since the specs for the Modi 1 are no longer on your website, he could have:
> 1) Dug up the old specs and emailed them.
> a) asked you to put that on the website under discontinued or archived products.
> 2) Explained that the old specs are no longer on the website and added some further fluff.
> ...


 

 Actually they are still there (look a the B stock closeout section, but the addition of an archive is a good idea, too, for the out of stock no longer available stuff):

  
 I consider a general question like this to have many answers. Are you asking about sound, features, price, or internal components?
 I have asked Schiit questions in the past and gotten good answers, but I also phrased my question so a simple one line answer is needed.
  
 I think the point is that the info is there if you are willing to actually read the site yourself and do a little work.  They are not going to spoon feed you the info.
  
 And to quote their "how we do it" page: http://schiit.com/about/how-we-do-it
 "And yeah, I know, our model isn’t for everyone. Sometimes we seem inflexible and *curt*. But that’s only because we are really focused on one thing: delivering great products at lowest cost, while maintaining local production. If that’s for you, great. If it isn’t, then there are plenty of other options out there."


----------



## MWSVette

jason stoddard said:


> How were Nick's responses unhelpful?
> 
> Again, if you're looking for sonic comparisons and flowery prose, we don't get into that.
> 
> Beyond that, his responses should be helpful, so I'm looking for examples that I can take back to him.


 
  
 Jason thanks for the response.
  
 It was the same type of question but a different product.  In my case a Lyr vs Lyr 2.  Got almost the same responses.  It is in the FAQ and descriptions.  I had read those prior to the email.  So I did a lot of research and with the help of others from the Head-Fi Schiit forums I got the information I needed and bought the product and love it. 
  
 That said some folks would have said never mind and bought something else.
  
 I was not looking for flowery or hand holding.  I was looking for specific information. He could have emailed back, "exactly what do you want to know?".  I never got that far.  If my question had been answered in the description and FAQ then it would have been my bad, but it was not.  Since this is not the first time this topic has been mentioned, there must be a segment of your customer base that is looking for flowery prose and hand holding.  As was mentioned above by another member some folks appreciate short direct responses.  Some do not.
  
 Thanks again for your personal response.
  
 And I still love my Schiit...


----------



## StanD

bearfnf said:


> Actually they are still there (look a the B stock closeout section, but the addition of an archive is a good idea, too, for the out of stock no longer available stuff):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The "B-Stock & Closeout" section will not be there for long and expecting a person to extensively mine the website is not the best idea, especially if the information is not there. Hopefully they will add the "Archived" section that I suggested. In the past when Nick didn't come up with an answer I had to guide him with a repeat email to get close. I've seen the "there are plenty of other options out there" statement on their website and thought that wasn't polite and should have been stated differently.
 On a positive and important point, if one has a problem with a purchased product, they seem to have superb customer service.


----------



## Tuco1965

I actually like the idea of the archived section too, but it's not my website or company.  Definitely loving the Schiit though.


----------



## SuperU

mwsvette said:


> Jason thanks for the response.
> 
> It was the same type of question but a different product.  In my case a Lyr vs Lyr 2.  Got almost the same responses.  It is in the FAQ and descriptions.  I had read those prior to the email.  So I did a lot of research and with the help of others from the Head-Fi Schiit forums I got the information I needed and bought the product and love it.
> 
> ...


 
 I would like to add my .02 cents to this.
  
 When I made my first order, I got the same kind of short responses. I was close to just not continuing. And in fact, had it not been for all the huge praise I had read here about Schiit in the forums, I too would have not purchased.
  
 I want to be careful that this is not misconstrued as not being happy. Even with the considerable problems that FedEx caused me and Schiit, I am, overall, very pleased.
  
 However, what I had to do was adapt real quick to the super short responses. So I took to sending super short questions. One at a time. And exchanged MANY emails. But did get what I was looking for eventually. 
  
 Personally I would opt for more helpful and complete responses if I could choose. An approach that didn't make me feel bad for having questions. Customer service is your face to the world, after your website. 
  
 I was very pleased that I was getting responses from Nick late on a Friday or Saturday night (can't remember) so that part is impressive.
  
 And I'd like my preferences made known as well regarding this, Jason. I agree with MWSVette.


----------



## Audiotic

Positive: http://www.cnet.com/news/for-a-headphone-amplifier-6-watts-per-channel-is-huge/


----------



## rovopio

When i ordered my uber, i read the "getting connected" section but still have some confusion. It was probably updated since the time i ordered the uber, or the specific question that i ask wasn't there at the time i asked, because now the guide is pretty complete and i don't have to ask what i asked then, after re-reading the guide -> getting connected just now.
  
 Basically i asked two dumb questions that seriously can be answered by google, but i send them an e-mail too.
  
 Nick did answered my two questions, the questions in hindsight was seriously dumb. So, short as it may be, he didn't told me off and he didn't say something like "you can actually google that yourself". So, yeah, that was good.
  
 I have no experience of Schiit's after sales service, and hopefully i won't ever need it. But i decide to buy their products partially because of the after sales service reputation they have. And reading their Schiit's head-fi online book, i reckon they are very capable engineers.
  
 I was thinking about typing about my really horrible experience from other company's after sales service, but decided against typing about it in the end. Maybe North Americans have more options available, partially due to laws implemented both to protect buyers and the business. And due to regulations regarding accountability, you can actually get your rights as customers from many companies. The same can't be said for some other parts of the world.
  
 So, provided that Schiit's after sales service standards are the same worldwide, I'd rather buy stuff from Schiit than having had to experience very, very pleasant experience i went through with some other brand before buying, and then stonewalled, waited, stonewalled some more, outright rejected, and the highlight, blatantly lied to, mere 2.5 months later when their product failed.


----------



## bearFNF

My experience with the service side for the two issues with products I own was very good, quick resolution and response to queries on technical details and the process for replacement.


----------



## MWSVette

stand said:


> The "B-Stock & Closeout" section will not be there for long and expecting a person to extensively mine the website is not the best idea, especially if the information is not there. Hopefully they will add the "Archived" section that I suggested. In the past when Nick didn't come up with an answer I had to guide him with a repeat email to get close. I've seen the "there are plenty of other options out there" statement on their website and thought that wasn't polite and should have been stated differently.
> On a positive and important point, if one has a problem with a purchased product, they seem to have superb customer service.


 
  
 I agree StanD.
  
 Again I want to say Schiit makes great audio products at great prices. 
  
 While the response I received was not helpful they did respond very quickly and I am sure if I had a problem I would get the same quick response.   To date I have not had any equipment issues or failures and if I did from everything I have read that is where Schiit shines, after the sale service. 
  
 If I was buying a $79.00 Fulla being blown off on a question is no big deal. Its $79.00 who cares.  But if I was buying a Ragnarok for $1699.00 and a Yggdrasil for what ever price at its release.  I would expect a somewhat higher level of before sale customer communication than "its in the description and FAQ".
  
 And as I stated earlier, in my business I have often wanted to say "there are plenty of other options out there", however I try to be a little more diplomatic about it, lest to many of them take me up on my suggestion.
  
 As Schiit moves into the higher dollar audio market they may find customers expect a little better.


----------



## money4me247

I don't think the CS at Schiit is bad at all. Nick just has a very no-nonsense approach and succinct attitude. he will answer your question in the briefest amount of words required. if you are looking for a more in-depth explanation, many of the head-fi members on these forums are quite verbose, so you can post your query here!


----------



## Mr Rick

money4me247 said:


> I don't think the CS at Schiit is bad at all. Nick just has a very no-nonsense approach and succinct attitude. he will answer your question in the briefest amount of words required. if you are looking for a more in-depth explanation, many of the head-fi members on these forums are quite verbose, so you can post your query here!


 
 Exactly!!


----------



## crixnet

Now that you mention it, I have to say that Nick at Schiit is not a very good pre-sales company representative. I've had similar terse, bordering on pissed-off-sounding replies from him that were off-putting. Had I not really believed that Schiit products were worth pursuing, I would have blown off buying from the company, strictly on the who-gives-a-f@#k attitude I got from Nick.
  
 I don't know Nick from Adam. Maybe his forte is tech support, or something, but people skills and customer relations ain't it, for sure.
  
 I've had to rephrase my pre-sales questions several times, in attempts to coax a more than non-helpful, terse reply from him. And I was looking to spend more than a grand on Schiit equipment. 
  
 God knows Jason is busy with more important things, but Schiit is a small company with loyal patrons. It would behoove him and the company to have a better customer relations point man staffing the Contact Us email queries.
  
 Just saying.


----------



## kstuart

jason stoddard said:


> cuiter23 said:
> 
> 
> > As an owner of 2 Schiit products, I can't say anything negatively about the hardware. However, I wish I could say the same for their customer service. At first I did not want to make a public post calling the Schiit guys out because they seem to have a good reputation within the community. I even messaged Jason privately about the issue and its been 2 weeks. The fact that he did not even respond or acknowledge my complaints towards one of his staff *Nick*, just shows me the degree in which he actually gives a damn about his customers. This whole situation was dealt with extremely unprofessionally. As a business owner myself, treating a valued customer like this is unacceptable. So much for brand loyalty.
> ...


 

 I did not see anything wrong in how Nick handled this.
  
 But...
  
 I remembered all the very lengthy descriptions of differences between the three different types of Modi on the web site, so I assumed that Nick was referring to something specific.
  
 However, I just went to schiit.com and there is actually no text about what is different between the Modi 1 and the Modi 2.  The text acts like there never was a previous Modi version.
  
 So, I agree with Jason in terms of customer service in general, BUT I think that Nick is factually wrong (like me he was confusing "difference between the three models of Modi 2" and "difference between Modi 1 and Modi 2").


----------



## StanD

crixnet said:


> :
> I don't know Nick from Adam. Maybe his forte is tech support, or something, but people skills and customer relations ain't it, for sure.
> 
> I've had to rephrase my pre-sales questions several times, in attempts to coax a more than non-helpful, terse reply from him. And I was looking to spend more than a grand on Schiit equipment.


 
 Nick responds very quickly and at hours I did not expect to hear from him, which is commendable. However his responses are a bit terse. I will agree with what you said, "people skills and customer relations ain't it." Maybe he needs a weekend off to chill and have some fun.


----------



## MWSVette

crixnet said:


> Now that you mention it, I have to say that Nick at Schiit is not a very good pre-sales company representative. I've had similar terse, bordering on pissed-off-sounding replies from him that were off-putting. Had I not really believed that Schiit products were worth pursuing, I would have blown off buying from the company, strictly on the who-gives-a-f@#k attitude I got from Nick.
> 
> I don't know Nick from Adam. Maybe his forte is tech support, or something, but people skills and customer relations ain't it, for sure.
> 
> ...


 
 Exactly crixnet,
  
 I am sure Nick is both a great guy and engineer.  Not everybody is a patient communicator. 
  
 And to an earlier post, I never stated all customer service at Schiit was bad.  I only tried the one time and it was not bad it was just not near as helpful as it could have been.  Everything I have heard and read is that after the sale they will bend over backward for you.
  
 Often though its the pre-sale customer service that makes or breaks deals.  You only get one time to make first impression...
  
 And yes, the Head-Fi forums are where I now go to get and when I can give info as I know sometimes it is difficult to get from Schiit.  I guess what disappoints me is that I get better info from our forums than I can the source.  The Head-Fier community has been a wealth of info on this great hobby of ours.
  
 Again I am not attacking Nick, the short responses work for him and from some of the replies, it works for some of Schiits customer base.  Just not all...


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> Nick responds very quickly and at hours I did not expect to hear from him, which is commendable. However his responses are a bit terse. I will agree with what you said, "people skills and customer relations ain't it." Maybe he needs a weekend off to chill and have some fun.


 
  
 I would imagine that if Nick took the weekend off, when he returned to work on Monday he would have several hundred emails to answer.
  
 I know for a fact he was answering queries last Sunday because one was from me. I certainly did not expect an answer on the weekend but I got my answer within an hour. 
  
 I call that dedication above and beyond the call of duty.


----------



## crixnet

For the record, I really dig Schiit products and their company story is great. I know that they're small and their focus is on designing great products at budget prices. The anti-salesman stance they espouse is also commendable inasmuch as there are no commissions to pay, keeping prices down for all of us. That's all great. All I was saying about their pre-sales customer relations was that it was overwhelmingly unhelpful and unnecessarily attitudinal. Persistence and patience, plus all the FANTASTIC answers from head-fiers like you and others, resulted in a sizable sale for Schiit. 
  
 So, my thanks to Schiit for producing great products and my thanks to head-fi for providing great information that I couldn't get from Schiit. Bottom line, it's a symbiotic relationship that benefits guys like me, and Schiit, without a doubt. That said, if some prospective customers don't know to come here for answers, Schiit would likely lose a lot of sales. Admittedly, that's none of my business, but it is their's.
  
 I appreciate Schiit and only want the best for them, however that takes shape.
  
  


mr rick said:


> I would imagine that if Nick took the weekend off, when he returned to work on Monday he would have several hundred emails to answer.
> 
> I know for a fact he was answering queries last Sunday because one was from me. I certainly did not expect an answer on the weekend but I got my answer within an hour.
> 
> I call that dedication above and beyond the call of duty.


----------



## MWSVette

mr rick said:


> I would imagine that if Nick took the weekend off, when he returned to work on Monday he would have several hundred emails to answer.
> 
> I know for a fact he was answering queries last Sunday because one was from me. I certainly did not expect an answer on the weekend but I got my answer within an hour.
> 
> I call that dedication above and beyond the call of duty.


 

 That is beyond the call of duty, especially if they only work Monday thru Friday.  If the reason for the short curt answers is overwork then that's not on Nick.
  
 In my business that would be called being understaffed and that would be on me.  If there is that much email traffic then maybe they need add some weekend staff to soften the work load on Monday.


----------



## SuperU

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with someone trying to help one make the best choice possible, and even sell the person after helping them find what they are looking for. I find good sales people very helpful.
  
 And I think Schiit could benefit from a move in this direction. Not that they need to hire a big sales team and drive up the costs, but a subtle move in that direction would be useful in my opinion.
  
 In my case, a whole slew of events transpired that could easily have angered me. And I appealed to Jason for help. He immediately connected me with Alex who resolved my problem within about 15 minutes. So overall, Schiit is responsive. Had my initial impression been more favorable before all the problems happened, I would have been even more impressed. It is hard to fix a so-so first impression.
  
 And personally I like Nick. He ultimately came around and helped me. However, let me say this... the amount I spent in total was considerable for me. At least that is how I felt then. Now, I'm ready to spend more - like I just got my new LCD-X today. I want to get a better amp and DAC. And that first impression left lots to be desired.
  
 What I wanted from Schiit was a bonding experience. A feel good moment. Just someone to tell me I was not crazy and be supportive. I didn't get that. And while it can be argued all day that it isn't necessary, by the number of voices raised here saying something similar - I think it would in fact be helpful. 
  
 That first contact and sale leaves a lasting impression. I'd have to rate mine as a 5 on a scale from 1 - 10. Not terrible, but not the bonding moment I would have liked to have had. 
  
 I will probably buy more from Schiit. The Ragnarok/Yggy is in my sights. But I wish I had had a better first experience. And I like the Schiit I bought. But there is definitely a feeling that I wish was considerably better. I had read all of Jason's book and felt a definite bonding with him. That's where it stopped.
  
 If a company came along with equal quality and gave me more of a sense of support and belonging, I would probably buy from them instead. 
  
 If I sound torn, I am. I do love my Schiit. But the customer experience I had left a whole lot to be desired.
  
 Just saying it like it is.


----------



## crixnet

superu said:


> In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with someone trying to help one make the best choice possible, and even sell the person after helping them find what they are looking for. I find good sales people very helpful.
> 
> And I think Schiit could benefit from a move in this direction. Not that they need to hire a big sales team and drive up the costs, but a subtle move in that direction would be useful in my opinion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I definitely hear you as my experiences were largely similar.
  
 That said, I imagine that Nick is on the receiving end of a s#itload of queries, and that a large number of them can be maddening to some extent. I do give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I don't know for sure, but I suspect he's likely an engineer, and I've worked with quite a few engineers in the past. Largely, they're good people, but just as often, they're also more geared to deal with technical issues than they are with human ones.
  
 These are strictly generalizations, but they hold true in my experience with engineers. It's the whole Spock-vs-Kirk thing. One values facts and figures the most; one prioritizes the human experience.
  
 Schiit is at its core a tech company. However, they do sell their products directly to the public. As such, even though they never seek to excel in salesmanship, per se, they would be better served by better serving pre-sales questions with patience and kindness. Those two virtues never hurt any human transaction.


----------



## Baldr

Ok, so I feel a need to step from my "chairman of the board” position to comment thus:
  
 Once upon a time, there were audio stores as an intermediary between users and manufacturers. This was at its height when a 3 minute phone call from New York to LA cost $30.00 in today's dollars. There was no other cheap way to communicate over a long distance. Manufacturers at that time did not as a rule have anyone designated to deal with the public, other than a clerical type who could refer them to the closest dealer.
  
 It was the dealer's job to form the necessary relationship with the user to inspire the user's confidence to commit to buy something. In addition, those relationships might overflow into one more proper to a hobbyist. In other words, the dealer needed to expend much time with each user. This was economically feasible because the dealer doubled the price and the user was willing to pay. This is significant overhead.  Let me repeat that - *significant*.
  
 Today we have local meets to help fill in the “hobbyist” overhead. The local dealer is a dying breed as communication costs drop and it is possible easily to shop over a world sized territory. As dealers decrease in number the sales burden falls to the manufacturer, proper in a high-end arena with median prices steeply rising.
  
 As I have said before, the only reason for the existence of marketing is to sell products nobody wants. The higher the retail prices rise in high end audio, the more the need for marketing. Marketeers want to make you feel good, and will usually tell you anything they think you want to hear.
  
 Now Nick, God Bless him is the only person we could find who is willing to monitor email as close as possible to 24-7 as possible. His purpose is to acknowledge incoming mail and point the sender in a direction. How many of you have sent an email with only crickets as a response? We sure as hell aren't perfect but at least we can do that.
  
 I have a Denon Headphone which is scratchy in the right channel. I have sent over ten emails to ten different address. Nothing. I bought 'em used but am probably screw*d any way. No such problem at Schiit.
  
 Anybody ever try to reach Microsoft?? I use the BSD operating system. I have sent them 3 queries – two of the answers were one word. RTFM. All three emails were answered. Why do I put up with this? Because BSD is the best OS there is for a file server with the best license there is – period.
  
 We ain't perfect – yes, we could try to find an email steward willing to write more effusive email responses. If we do, it will increase our costs. We do get that many emails. If anyone is offended by Nick's terse nature, please understand it is not our intention to offend – to the contrary, we are grateful to have all of you as clients. it is just not yet been revealed to us how to never offend anyone, ever.


----------



## StanD

All I say is try to do better and take it a little more seriously.


----------



## SuperU

crixnet said:


> I definitely hear you as my experiences were largely similar.
> 
> That said, I imagine that Nick is on the receiving end of a s#itload of queries, and that a large number of them can be maddening to some extent. I do give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I don't know for sure, but I suspect he's likely an engineer, and I've worked with quite a few engineers in the past. Largely, they're good people, but just as often, they're also more geared to deal with technical issues than they are with human ones.
> 
> ...


 
 I agree.
  
 Like I said, I like Nick. 
  
 I do not see this as a referendum on Nick. But I do see it as one on Schiit. 
  
 If they are listening, they will hear exactly what you said - and others - and me. 
  
 Personally I like Spock, and I like Kirk. Mr. Nimoy's passing was hard for me to hear. 
  
 When I spend money, I want to feel special. And I'm not just looking for patience and kindness. Nick was patient. And he was not unkind. I'm looking for that bond... that sense of feeling appreciated. It starts pre-sale and carries through to after it's all said and done - or to repairs if needed.
  
 I'm also a business owner. And we have a very different way of treating our customers. Not that what we do is right for everyone, much less Schiit but some movement in that direction would be welcomed on my end - and ultimately I can only speak for me.
  
 It pains me to write some of this. I do love what I bought. Am listening to my Asgard 2/Uberfrost with my new LCD-X and it sounds great. So, please separate my thoughts of the equipment from my thoughts on how I feel about the purchasing experience.


----------



## crixnet

stand said:


> All I say is try to do better and take it a little more seriously.


 

 What Stan said.
  
 Schiit makes great products, no doubt. The company also eschews marketing. Fine. But good business relations are essential to any business. That's just a plain fact.
  
 Comparing anything as being better than the dealing with Microsoft is a copout. Also, having one poor guy shouldering a mountain of queries is a fool's errand: something is sure to break/fall through the cracks.
  
 A better sales experience will yield more sales. And that added profit revenue can more than make up for the expense of paying one or more customer support reps who have more time, training and patience. In short, the customer experience would be improved by far, and that would be a solid win-win.


----------



## raybone0566

baldr said:


> Ok, so I feel a need to step from my :chairman of the board” position to comment thus:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had the same experience with said companies you have mentioned here. I can't imagine how many e-mails schiit probably gets. Me personally, don't need to have my hand held, or be told everything's going to be alright. I ciontacted nick & he got back to me within an hour. I got what I needed, made my purchase and am very satisfied. Just my two cents.


----------



## TinearedOne

Well, I'm new to the forum and new to buying Schiit products, having just bought a Sys and a set of Pyst cables, but I've been digesting an awful lot of posts about the company and its products, and have shot off a couple of queries, both of which Nick responded to promptly and succinctly.  Two of my questions were, quite frankly, stupid.  He responded.  The response was clear.  The response answered my question(s).  He's clearly not cutting and pasting pat responses into e-mails.  ...and he responded almost immediately.
  
 I haven't had a problem with any of our interactions, and will continue to ask questions until I buy my headphone amp/preamp, DAC, and/or likely phono preamp - and I expect direct answers.  So far, that's what I'm getting.
  
 I like Schiit.  I think it's pretty telling that Jason Stoddard et al are willing to spend Saturday answering posts on this board.


----------



## crixnet

raybone0566 said:


> I had the same experience with said companies you have mentioned here. I can't imagine how many e-mails schiit probably gets. Me personally, don't need to have my hand held, or be told everything's going to be alright. I ciontacted nick & he got back to me within an hour. I got what I needed, made my purchase and am very satisfied. Just my two cents.


 

 One person's hand-holding is another person's attempt to gather essential information. Everyone has different needs and experiences. And how a small business deals with disparate needs often determines the extent of its success.


----------



## BeatsWork

crixnet said:


> One person's hand-holding is another person's attempt to gather essential information. Everyone has different needs and experiences. And how a small business deals with disparate needs often determines the extent of its success.


 

 I've said it before - if you are looking for your accessories and customer service in a velvet lined bag you can find that, at much higher prices, but you are not Schiit's target market. They are targeting those who want the best at a given price point which is what they deliver. Call it "no frills" if you like. I'm perfectly happy with a $750 amp which goes toe to toe with amps costing twice that much and curt (prompt!) responses. I would take Schiit's fast and direct replies over the polite cut and paste responses from any number of vendors where the responder has clearly either made no effort to understand the problem or more likely is Tier 1 support with only a knowledge base and rudimentary experience to resolve issues.


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> I've said it before - if you are looking for your accessories and customer service in a velvet lined bag you can find that, at much higher prices, but you are not Schiit's target market. They are targeting those who want the best at a given price point which is what they deliver. Call it "no frills" if you like. I'm perfectly happy with a $750 amp which goes toe to toe with amps costing twice that much and curt (prompt!) responses. I would take Schiit's fast and direct replies over the polite cut and paste responses from any number of vendors where the responder has clearly either made no effort to understand the problem or more likely is Tier 1 support with only a knowledge base and rudimentary experience to resolve issues.


 
 We're not looking for fancy microprocessor controlled power switches on front or wood cases made from wood from the tree of life. We are looking for a good value and great audio performance which Schiit delivers on. None of the expensive feature jests that I just made nor other companies lack of proper support does not mean that Schiit cannot do a better job of customer service. How they deal with it is up to Schiit.


----------



## BeatsWork

elecen010 said:


> Checking in here with my Modi 2 Uber and Asgard 2 driving Mad Dog Pro's....
> 
> I love them! But, something is missing compared to loudspeakers...


 

 I am not "recommending" anything here but you may be interested in looking at "Out of Your Head" software. There's a whole thread on it in Computer forum. Pricey but it comes closest to replicating speaker experience of anything I've played with - there are numerous free vst plugins - search Dolby wrapper, binaural, crossfade - but never found anything which I kept long term.


----------



## rovopio

For somebody who monitors e-mail as close to 24-7 as possible, in my experience, Nick sure was patient with me.
  
 Nick answered my seriously trivial, and i'd even say dumb, questions without condescension, and not telling me to google them, even though i could and should've just google'd them.
 I'm not saying what the questions are due to the highly trivial nature of said questions. So, He sure has enough Patience to deal with that 24-7 a day. I very most likely won't.
  
 - - - - -
 In terms of being treated specially, i get that. In fact, being in Asia i completely understand that. Where i live, the market for headphones are small, veryv= very small, and people live with only $200 a month. So when you spend $450 for a N headphone, the N dealer will treat you like you're a God. And 2.5 months later, when your N headphone has a problem, you will get stonewalled, ignored, stonewalled again, outright being refused service, and then you have to raised your voice and be angry just so they know you mean business, and then, and only then, you will get your rights as a customer, as in warranty claim. Oh by the way, at the end of said warranty claim, you found out at home that you were being blatantly lied to, to your face.
  
 That's not just the dealer though, the Asia Pacific branch in extension was in on it.
  
 Another example, i just paid $630 on february 6th for a Hifiman headphone. Since the dealer has to order them directly from Hifiman Principal, i had to wait 23 days. I get attention every 2 days from said dealer, not to mention some extra bonus stuffs when the hifiman headphone was finally delivered. Well, i didn't know Hifiman has _production variation _for their headphones before i bought them. I got a headphone that has KILLER clamp force. I'm talking clamp force as in, the headphone is trying to kill me, figuratively. I'm not talking low comfort level, i'm talking legitimate pain. Headache, nausea, and worse, i'm seeing spots before my eyes sort-of-pain. That kind of clamp force is not humanly safe, i think.
  
 I ask for an exchange the second day i received them. The dealer told me straight, that the clamp force is normal. Alright well, i contact Hifiman Official thread in head-fi with my problems, saying can you check my headphone? i can't return it to my dealer even when there's a manufacturing defect because there's no _implemented _regulations and laws specifying exchange, returns and buyers protection. The response i got was 


> *hey buddy, are you easy to go to your dealer? You can go there and try another headphones.* I have never heard this kind of issue. Almost all customer feel comfortable of Hifiman headphones.


 
 I can't blame my dealer as it's common practice to not received buyers protection, but as you can see, team Hifiman customer service did not even read my original message properly. And after that reply, i haven't received any more reply for them. It's been exactly 72 hours and counting. I'm not expecting Team Hifiman to reply by now.
  
 I mean sure I completely understand certain expectations that comes from shelling money for luxury items. Not the same but, I also always feel good after shelling out $400 or more, ($400 is already considered a lot here). I'm either treated like a celebrity, or, in some case, like i'm the center of the universe. It's somewhat hyperbole but really, Asia is where it's at if you want to buy things and feeling very good afterwards. A few of the stores will figuratively kneel before your feet to get a sale from you.
  
 My understanding of Schiit is about high value per dollar spent, and two, affordable pricing. So of course, some corners will be cut. For Schiit, that corner is not hiring an expert of public relations, be it a veteran salesperson, or an articulate e-mail center operator.
  
 But here's the thing though, the more expensive things are, the more any dealer for any products will likely accomodate you isn't it? I mean... it's not wrong for you guys to hope, Schiit's reply in general is indeed short. But is it really possible, logistically, for a company that aims at being the best in efficiency and delivering the best value per dollar spent, to then hire a two or three more people, just for ensuring communications?
  
 Look at Hifiman, they have a meet soon on he-1000. Lots praised them for delivering affordable planar magnetics that actually sounds good. They have dealers worldwide. They sponsored head-fi and have customer service team official thread in head-fi. Even then, what did i get? A reply that was clearly did not read my original message, 3 days of no follow-up, and a schiit clamp force headphone.
  
 Another example is Fiio. They are the almost the opposite of Schiit in customer care. I got very nice replies out of e-mails, and their Head-fi staffs replies private messages. Their Fiio E17K where i live, is $200 bucks. Not that it's bad or anything, but Modi 2 + Magni 2 is also 200 bucks. (well, $240 with cables)
  
 Lastly, I infer from what Baldr said, Nick is singlehandedly doing a job of one and a half people, at least. If he checks e-mails 12-15 hours a day, they need 1.5 or 2 people if they don't use Nick. Average employees will not check e-mails 12-15 hours a day. If Schiit decides to employs two or three people for _customer relations expert, _the cost of their salary will be passed to the buyers. Or, it will cost the same, but production cost has to decrease.
  
*To close my post and avoid misunderstanding (partially due to my non-native level writing skill)*, I'm not saying you guys expectations are bad, not at all. Constructive suggestions are alright. It's just that, Like Baldr said, either there's significant cost increase, or in my personal experience, there will be lesser value per dollar spent, or the one i hate most, decrease in level of after sales service experience. If your amplifiers have problems, _others reported _that Schiit normally took care of it as best they could.  Come on... everybody here wants that don't you?
  
 In my opinion it's hard to have the cake and eat it too. Great value per dollar spent and extreme efficiency doesn't go hand in hand with _shopping experience._
 At least that's what I think.
  
 If Schiit's current complaints are "put switches in the front" and "e-mail answers are extremely short". That are nice problems to have.
  
 Again, look at my Hifiman current experience.
 Also, Audeze is not that much better. Where I live, people only get 1 year Audeze warranty. If their LCD-3 Audeze failed after 1 year, what then?
 On the contrary, 5-years worldwide warranty is a long time for a Schiit products to break and being taken care of. The shipping cost to Asia alone, if my Schiit ever breaks, is more than made up for any short answers Schiit Team are giving in a daily basis.
  
 i'm merely offering another POV here... I hope nobody is personally offended with what i said, and i apologize in advance if you are, and let's agree to disagree.


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> We're not looking for fancy microprocessor controlled power switches on front or wood cases made from wood from the tree of life. We are looking for a good value and great audio performance which Schiit delivers on. None of the expensive feature jests that I just made nor other companies lack of proper support does not mean that Schiit cannot do a better job of customer service. How they deal with it is up to Schiit.


 

  I understand where you're coming from but I guess I disagree on the direction this implies. Sure they can hire more people but that adds cost, period. I've asked very technical questions and received an extremely quick if terse response. That makes me happy. I can see where others would find it off-putting.


----------



## crixnet

beatswork said:


> I understand where you're coming from but I guess I disagree on the direction this implies. Sure they can hire more people but that adds cost, period. I've asked very technical questions and received an extremely quick if terse response. That makes me happy. I can see where others would find it off-putting.


 

 This is a moot point, anymore. The fact is that we each like what we like. Where we all agree is that we appreciate the quality of Schiit gear.
  
 After that, it's a learning curve and an expectations shift for anyone who wants/needs/expects more than the marginal pre-sales customer support Schiit currently offers. That's the bottom line.
  
 The customer service ball is in their court.


----------



## Mr Rick

crixnet said:


> This is a moot point, anymore. The fact is that we each like what we like. Where we all agree is that we appreciate the quality of Schiit gear.
> 
> After that, it's a learning curve and an expectations shift for anyone who wants/needs/expects more than the marginal pre-sales customer support Schiit currently offers. That's the bottom line.
> 
> The customer service ball is in their court.


 
 Just keep in mind that what you consider "marginal " is perfectly acceptable to many.


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> I understand where you're coming from but I guess I disagree on the direction this implies. Sure they can hire more people but that adds cost, period. I've asked very technical questions and received an extremely quick if terse response. That makes me happy. I can see where others would find it off-putting.


 
 I've received the same short replies, sometimes I had to go back and forth to get the proper answer.
 Apparently some folks were not able to get the help they wanted and would probably just as happy to wait a little longer to get a satisfactory answer. I can see their point and think that Schiit can do a better job.
 As far as the 5 different products that I've purchased from them, I'm happy, all great Schiit.


----------



## crixnet

mr rick said:


> Just keep in mind that what you consider "marginal " is perfectly acceptable to many.


 

 I do, Rick. But it's also worth noting that "acceptable to many" can still translate as marginal to others. We all interpret things from our own experiences.
  
 I support Schiit, and not marginally.


----------



## cuiter23

beatswork said:


> I understand where you're coming from but I guess I disagree on the direction this implies. Sure they can hire more people but that adds cost, period. I've asked very technical questions and received an extremely quick if terse response. That makes me happy. I can see where others would find it off-putting.


 
  
 No, if they are unable to provide even a decent level of customer service that is just incompetence. Getting Nick to write a couple extra words and maybe a couple seconds more on an e-mail is not a big deal. If he is incapable of doing this, as a business owner, I would not allow him to take on this responsibility. I cannot imagine that they have an overwhelming amount of e-mail that just can't be answered, this is a niche community and if Schiit does come to the point where they need the extra staff, then they should start hiring. Not telling Schiit what to do, but this is how it's done. 
  
 I am not looking for any cherry of top or flowers however Jason put it I am just looking for a straightforward answer. Not a response telling me to "search it up on google".
  
 If you have ever owned a business in any capacity you would know the 3 C's of sales - Customers, Commission and Clienteling. Great your products are cheap, but for a customer if I'm spending a single penny on you I better expect to be treated well. If you want to go above and beyond with your business, you better believe the reality - Customers First. 
  
 I'm just trying to say that Schiit has a long way to go in terms of customer service. I'm definitely not the only one experiencing these issues. I am confident in saying that a great customer experience coupled with even greater products can be the next breakthrough that Schiit Audio is looking for.


----------



## knmorgan

I am normally a lurker, but I will pitch in here.
  
 I own five Schiit products (Valhalla, Bifrost, Mjolnir, Gungnir, and Fulla). I believe I initially purchased the Valhalla in late 2010 and I purchased the Bifrost when it first came out in late 2011. I have noticed that Schiit (and specifically Jason) frequently brag that they never do sales to keep costs down, but that has not always been the case. They were having a $50 sale on the Valhalla when I purchased it (perhaps the Asgard too; I can't recall). I believe you only got the discount if you referred someone to Schiit, but I was able to get it by emailing and asking for it.
  
 Anyway, I have noticed that the quality of their customer service has declined over time. In 2010 or 2011 you could shoot them an email, ask specific questions about their products, and receive helpful responses. I just checked through my email history and see several helpful responses from Jason himself during this time period. I even asked for headphone recommendations on the Asgard and Valhalla and they happily suggested some.
  
 I ordered the Gungnir and Mjolnir in late 2013 and shot them a few questions about the backorder (the site wasn't updated that there was a backorder until after I had placed my order, which ended up taking a month to clear apparently). The responses I received (it was the beginning of 2014 by the time I started correspondence) were rather curt, and mostly of the form "we haven't charged your card so let us know if you want to cancel the order" as if they did not care about my business.
  
 I don't bother emailing them anymore. I would rather receive no response than them respond as if I am some sort of nuisance. I am a big fan of the products, however. I purchased a Fulla recently and will likely continue to purchase products from them (*cough*dedicated speaker amp*cough*), but I doubt I will be emailing them with a question anytime soon.


----------



## rovopio

Hiring extra help added to cost. And Baldr did say Nick is a person that are willing to check e-mail the closest to 24/7 that they can get. As a business owner, you know how hard it is to find a person like that, and for said person to be as patient as he is.
  
 If Nick actually told you "search it in google yourself" i agree that it's not proper. My e-mail questions to Schiit e-mail was seriously dumb though, testing patience sort of dumb, and Nick did reply to me, business as usual.
  
 I'm not a schiit fanboy or anything, but i see Schiit does more things right than they do things wrong. In this case, to everybody, Nick answers e-mail very quickly, but in short answers. Operative word being, to everybody.
  
 You know there's another audio company, where the higher-up hold a skype session with a customer and exchanged that person's broken unit, i think free of charge (cmiiw). Other _regular _people with issues with their units, doesn't receive skype sessions with that company higher-up, and the company did say to that _special_ _skype_ customer that the replacement was something special just for him because of some reasons.
  
 Personally i would be more annoyed (though ultimately powerless), when somebody can get special treatment because they are _so and so _(say in his case, he's a video blogger), and i'm not. That's unfair.
  
 I'd rather Schiit staffs (is it just Nick who answers in a very short way?) because i talked to Laura i think, and she answers concisely as well. I'd rather Schiit staffs treats everybody somewhat equally, equally short, than knowing that they treat a portion of their customers like a VIP, while not to the rest.
  
 I'm not saying Schiit staffs are 100% correct, I'm just saying, from a different POV, it's the lesser of 100 evils.


----------



## eddypoon

baldr said:


> Now Nick, God Bless him is the only person we could find who is willing to monitor email as close as possible to 24-7 as possible. His purpose is to acknowledge incoming mail and point the sender in a direction. How many of you have sent an email with only crickets as a response? We sure as hell aren't perfect but at least we can do that.
> 
> I have a Denon Headphone which is scratchy in the right channel. I have sent over ten emails to ten different address. Nothing. I bought 'em used but am probably screw*d any way. No such problem at Schiit.
> 
> Anybody ever try to reach Microsoft?? I use the BSD operating system. I have sent them 3 queries – two of the answers were one word. RTFM. All three emails were answered. Why do I put up with this? Because BSD is the best OS there is for a file server with the best license there is – period.


 
  
 God bless Schiit. Your team treats me like human: Every time I have a question: pre-sales, technical, returns, or just referring my friends to buy some Modis, I get a proper response. You guys are amazing, reliable and trustworthy, and that's how the word of mouth spreads. 
  
 I had a Hifiman headphone which was dead-on-arrival, I got so ripped off and humiliated that I feel *ashamed* of myself tried to buy from this company. http://www.head-fi.org/t/752339/hifiman-terrible-experience-with-re-400i-and-the-companys-customer-service   
  
 Thanks MM and best to your team.


----------



## rovopio

eddypoon said:


> God bless Schiit. Your team treats me like human: Every time I have a question: pre-sales, technical, returns, or just referring my friends to buy some Modis, I get a proper response. You guys are amazing, reliable and trustworthy, and that's how the word of mouth spreads.
> 
> I had a Hifiman headphone which was dead-on-arrival, I got so ripped off and humiliated that I feel ashamed of myself tried to buy from this company. http://www.head-fi.org/t/752339/hifiman-terrible-experience-with-re-400i-and-the-companys-customer-service
> 
> Thanks MM and best to your team.


 
  
 I read your case, at least you got your $79 money back. See my Hifiman current experience on previous page.
 I mean, the products are good, but, when you happened to draw the short end of the stick, well, bye-bye money.
  
 You see Schiit owners people, there are 2 people, 2 people that aren't satisfied with how Hifiman treats them, just within the subset of head-fi members that happened to subscribe to Schiit owners thread, and that happened within several hours of each other. Now how many head-fiers in total actually aren't satisfied with Hifiman approach to customer service?
 Good for those that live in the countries with strong buyers protection and accepting returns, and suck for people like me. I was initially wondering why razordogaudio has open box deals returned hifiman headphones almost every week. Now  i know why.
  
 Schiit problems are a nice problem to have. And I do have hope that Schiit can satisfy even more people, and in this instance, be better in their approach to replying e-mails, which is a perfectly justifiable suggestion.
  
 Maybe when their business got even bigger than they are now, they will decide to hire a help or two to assist / work with Nick. As long as the production cost and more importantly after sales are not being sacrificed, i'm good with anything really.


----------



## Mr Rick

You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.” 
― John Lydgate


----------



## cuiter23

mr rick said:


> You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”
> 
> [COLOR=181818]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=181818]― [/COLOR][COLOR=666600]John Lydgate[/COLOR]




You see the issue here when Schiit is not even trying to please anyone. Jason even said that indirectly.


----------



## Mr Rick

cuiter23 said:


> You see the issue here when Schiit is not even trying to please anyone. Jason even said that indirectly.


 
  
 I'm pleased. I'd be even more pleased if we we would move on from this subject. It's getting as bad as "switchgate".


----------



## cuiter23

mr rick said:


> I'm pleased. I'd be even more pleased if we we would move on from this subject. It's getting as bad as "switchgate".




I dont see a problem with continuing on this subject as long as people are still willing to share their opinions and expose subpar customer service. This is what this forum is all about and hopefully Schiit can take with them this valuable experience and not take their customers for granted. 

That is all I have to say, if others want to comment on this I strongly encourage that as a transparent conversation benefits everyone.


----------



## bearFNF

So here's a good quote from the Forward to the "Schiit Happened" story:
 ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
  
 "4. Be memorable*—**this isn’t about getting everyone to like you, this is about getting some people to love you.*"
 ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 Kinda sums it up. Take it or leave it.


----------



## money4me247

lol @ the last 4 pages of discussion abt Nick's succinct responses.
  
 no, nick does not write in a way that makes you feel warm & fuzzy inside with a "How are you doing today my dear valued customer... Hope I have been of service and have a wonderful day"
  
 ...but he does usually answer your questions using as few words as possible & responds extremely quickly to queries. not sure what else is really required from CS hahah.
  
 edit: I do admit that this type of response is atypical in today's customer-focused climate & threw me off initially. however, he worked with me through all my issues. troubleshooted me through a pair of defective tubes and immediately sent out a new pair once the problem was indeed isolated to the tubes. also, got me a extra pair of sticky feet when I ordered the Bifrost as I lost the ones that came with my Lyr 2. customer service from schiit is indeed quite excellent. just don't take the short responses as anything besides Nick working through a ton of emails & schiit saving money by not hiring a rando bimbo to respond to emails.


----------



## TinearedOne

Yup.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
  
 To respond to some of the things brought up in the last few pages:
  
 1. The idea of having a product archive is a great idea. I need to see where we can fit in "dead" product pages to the site in a way that it doesn't interfere with the main product pages. So, that will be done. Maybe not tomorrow (Sunday), but it is something we should be able to accomplish in relatively short order.
  
 2. Both Nick and I were mistaken that there is a clear distinction between the Modi 1 and Modi 2 on the site. Usually we spell out the differences between previous and subsequent models on the product page. So, my apologies. Here are the main difference: Modi 2 supports 24/192 through a mode switch that also allows for driverless operation with Windows in the "Standard" mode. There are, of course, layout and other tweaks, but in terms of output stage, DAC, input receiver and stuff, they are the same.
  
 That said, we will be proceeding with the current model of extremely efficient answers, and not pursuing a templated approach that begins the answer to every inquiry with "Thank you for your question, you are a valued customer and we really want you to love us...etc for 50 more words." 
  
 Why?
  
 1. I believe that efficient answers in short order show the customer we care, rather than tell them (consider that most automated scripts that tell you you're a valued customer usually end with..."and you'll receive an answer in 48 hours on most business days," or something like that. For more: http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/2460#post_10850301
  
 2. We have many emails that contain 6, 8, or 12 separate questions, so answering in context with short, efficient answers is most conducive to understanding and fulfilling customer needs.
  
 3. We are, by philosophy, opposed to the "hard sell" and telling the customer they will hear nirvana when using our products, so we do not answer questions regarding performance relative to other manufacturers products, nor speculate on what they hear: schiit.com/about/principles
  
 4. Some prospects do not like #3 at all; however, we see it as showing additional respect for the customer in that we will never attempt to manipulate them. I understand that not everyone sees it that way.
  
 We have tried to ensure we have deep information on our site to help people make decisions and get the most out of their products--product info, specs, FAQ, downloadable manuals, how to connect them, how to troubleshoot if you have a problem, etc. And, if you ask a question about, say "What is the best amp/DAC for (my specific headphone)," you will certainly get a helpful and unambiguous answer. However, this answer sometimes isn't what someone wants to hear (looking for affirmation that, say, a Valhalla 2 is the right amp for their LCD-2s, having fallen in love with tubes, for example, or that they really, really, really need Ragnarok, for another.)
  
 I understand that this approach will not necessarily satisfy everyone, but I believe it is the one based on the highest level of respect. Respect in your own intelligence to make the right choices based on factual information. Respect for your pocketbook (other approaches focused on sales could easily increase the cost of the products—especially if you're talking about retaining our current weekend/holiday availability.) And, finally, respect for your choice to to go elsewhere (there are plenty of excellent products on the market.)
  
 Regardless of where you end up, I hope you find products that fit your needs and desires perfectly.
  
 All the best,
 Jason


----------



## crixnet

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> To respond to some of the things brought up in the last few pages:
> 
> ...


 

 Jason, 
  
 Not a single person has mentioned wanting a template response or a hard sell from Schiit. Those are straw man arguments. Even the issue of the relative length of many email replies is irrelevant. What is relevant is the substance, or lack thereof, of some of the terse replies received by some who posted here.
  
 The info on your site does provide a lot of information, but it does not answer everything that individual customers need to know. This is isn't a knock. It's just reality.
  
 And, finally, of course, there are plenty of other places where audio shoppers can spend money. The point is that many people want to spend money with your company. I don't think anyone here is demanding concierge service, proxy shoppers or anything of the sort. It does come down to respect, as you alluded to, but of a different kind. To be clear, I, for one, never wanted or looked for anyone on your staff to kiss my butt or to hard sell me. However, the probably unintentional tone of I-don't-give-a-schiit replies were off-putting, especially in light of the honest questions about your products.
  
 This feedback is unsolicited, granted. I also concede that others will and do feel otherwise. That said, please take positive criticism in the spirit in which it is intended. I support Schiit, but things could be handled better.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

crixnet said:


> Jason,
> 
> Not a single person has mentioned wanting a template response or a hard sell from Schiit. Those are straw man arguments. Even the issue of the relative length of many email replies is irrelevant. What is relevant is the substance, or lack thereof, of some of the terse replies received by some who posted here.
> 
> ...


 

 What specific answers did you get that were off-puttting? I'd like to see this, seriously, so we can improve. It's not like we want to be seen as belligerent buttheads.


----------



## raybone0566

crixnet said:


> One person's hand-holding is another person's attempt to gather essential information. Everyone has different needs and experiences. And how a small business deals with disparate needs often determines the extent of its success.


 Well, there's always the mom & pop store. You can go there, drink hot chocolate, sing Kum ba yah and pay $1000.00 for a $300.00 amp. Whatever blows your hair back


----------



## ThurstonX

I've skimmed most of the last four pages, but I'll reply to the "archived" info section to the web site (not that you need it; you're all smart people).  Many companies have a *Products* link, and next to that a *Discontinued Products* link.  I think that would work.  Hopefully you have saved copies of your old Specs and FAQ pages, not to mention the photos and downloadable manuals.  In essence, recreate the old product pages, but stick them under Discontinued Products, and make that the only way to get to said products.
  
 That's how I'd structure it.  All that data could hardly occupy any significant server space.
  
 Thanks for making good schiit and taking the time to listen to your customers.


----------



## reddog

raybone0566 said:


> Well, there's always the mom & pop store. You can go there, drink hot chocolate, sing Kum ba yah and pay $1000.00 for a $300.00 amp. Whatever blows your hair back



+1 lol Roflmao.


----------



## SuperU

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> To respond to some of the things brought up in the last few pages:
> 
> ...


 
 Jason,
  
 A helpful, kind, bonding sales approach is exactly what I was suggesting. Not hard sell. Something between short and terse and pushy.
  
 Never have I or anyone that I know of suggested "templated or hard sell". That was kind of a "spin" on what is really being said here.
  
 And like I said, I like Nick. And I have intention of buying more from Schiit. It is the quality of the experience along with the great quality of your equipment I was talking about. Would be nice if the two were more equal - and not by lowering the quality of the equipment. LOL
  
 Please take the time to reread my post along with others here. No one is attacking Schiit - much less me. And if you can't see the care and concern with which I wrote, then I don't know what to say.
  
 In the end it is your business and our money. We can both do as we see fit. That states the obvious. And when you customers write to tell you how they feel, it probably deserves some thought and consideration at the least. And when you hear a repeating theme, at least as it regards your customer service, as a marketing guy, well... I don't have to tell you.
  
 It's so easy to create a bonding between us and Schiit. You do that so well in your writing.
  
 Just want you to know I love what I bought from you. And Nick is a great guy. On my end, was just pointing out what I think would make for a better experience.
  
 I will be traveling for a few days, so if I don't respond, it's because I can't.
  
  


raybone0566 said:


> Well, there's always the mom & pop store. You can go there, drink hot chocolate, sing Kum ba yah and pay $1000.00 for a $300.00 amp. Whatever blows your hair back


 
  This misses the point, at least of what I was writing. I don't see this as "either or". But if that's what blows your hair back, so be it. I prefer a grey approach not black and white.


----------



## SuperU

Double post, sorry.


----------



## StanD

@Jason Stoddard it's nice that you are adding the archives as I suggested. When I bought my Modi 2 Uber to create an additional listening station, I was looking on the website to find specs for the original product, that thought crossed my mind, Since I was going to buy the product anyway as the specs are excellent and I already owned a fully loaded Bifrost that I am supremely pleased with it, I decided not to bother with bringing this up or asking for specs., but it appears that others would really like this, as would I.
 By the way the Modi 2 Uber was my first direct purchase, the previous 4 were via Amazon. Going forward I will go direct, the delivery was more than fast enough and I'd like to spare you guys of the Amazon costs as you guys make good on your products so the Amazon guarantee is not so important to me when it comes to Schiit. Party on.


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> @Jason Stoddard
> it's nice that you are adding the archives as I suggested. When I bought my Modi 2 Uber to create an additional listening station, I was looking on the website to find specs for the original product, that thought crossed my mind, Since I was going to buy the product anyway as the specs are excellent and I already owned a fully loaded Bifrost that I am supremely pleased with it,




Stan,
Once this pre sales hullabaloo dies off (soon), would be great to hear a summary comparison between BiFrost Uber and Modi 2 Uber.
There aren't make folks with both DACs side by side, nor direct comparisons.
TIA.


----------



## TinearedOne

jexby said:


> Stan,
> Once this pre sales hullabaloo dies off (soon), would be great to hear a summary comparison between BiFrost Uber and Modi 2 Uber.
> There aren't make folks with both DACs side by side, nor direct comparisons.
> TIA.


 

 +1, as that's a decision I'm trying to make...  Modi 2 Uber or Bifrost


----------



## MWSVette

tinearedone said:


> +1, as that's a decision I'm trying to make...  Modi 2 Uber or Bifrost


 
 +2 StanD
  
 I would also like to know your comparison of the two.
  
 Thanks


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> Stan,
> Once this pre sales hullabaloo dies off (soon), would be great to hear a summary comparison between BiFrost Uber and Modi 2 Uber.
> There aren't make folks with both DACs side by side, nor direct comparisons.
> TIA.


 
  
  


tinearedone said:


> +1, as that's a decision I'm trying to make...  Modi 2 Uber or Bifrost


 
 Modi 2 Uber or Bifrost Uber USB2. Other than the size, better build quality and requisite price tag of the Bifrost, one will not really notice much of any difference in SQ. I'm not sure if anyone will in practical terms be able to discern the better SNR of the Bifrost. Switching USB sources and balancing the volumes takes longer than the 4 seconds of human auditory memory, however, nothing stood out as to be so different. So other than expectation bias, there is not much to expect. That said, I am keeping both.


----------



## Rotijon

baldr said:


> Ok, so I feel a need to step from my "chairman of the board” position to comment thus:
> 
> Once upon a time, there were audio stores as an intermediary between users and manufacturers. This was at its height when a 3 minute phone call from New York to LA cost $30.00 in today's dollars. There was no other cheap way to communicate over a long distance. Manufacturers at that time did not as a rule have anyone designated to deal with the public, other than a clerical type who could refer them to the closest dealer.
> 
> ...


 
 I remember sending a 3 paragraph email asking on whether valhalla or vali or lyr is better for the hd800.

 Nick sent a 1 sentence email saying "The ragnarok is on a different level, get it"

 I felt like getting mad, till i remembered that my question is somewhat dumb, and a long answer is likely to increase the cost of the products. Getting a rag.


----------



## MattTCG

Since everyone else has chimed in, I'll add my 2 cents as well.
  
 I find most of the critical commentary about Nick and the lack of Schiit giving a warm fuzzy feeling to emails is bordering on ridiculous (given the situation). The explanation offered by Jason and others from Schiit has been given repeatedly...yet, many here continue to stamp there feet in protest. They seem to accept that Schiit undersells and outperforms just about every product on the market, yet...they still want all the excellent products but with a big can of warm fuzzy to go along with it. 
  
 Good grief. My guess is that most of the foot stompers have never owned a business. I've owned a business for the past 15 years. I can't even begin to imagine how many countless hours I've wasted talking to people who had no intention of ever doing business with me but only wanted free advice. This can put businesses out of business, quickly. 
  
 I personally like Schiit products and recommend them regularly here on headfi and elsewhere. Why? Because they are underpriced and outperform most other products in their class. How do they do this? Because they have an efficient model of doing business. It's part of the design, which I happen to appreciate. 
  
 Now...let Schiit raise the price just 10% to cover the cost of warm and fuzzy. There would be an international revolt. You can't have it both ways. You can get a great product at a great price or you can pay extra for hand holding. 
  
 Oh, and I'd be willing to bet that the "answers" so many are complaining that they didn't get could be found with google in about 90 seconds (btw google searches are free). IMO, ymmv


----------



## Jason Stoddard

>


 Quote: 





rotijon said:


> I remember sending a 3 paragraph email asking on whether valhalla or vali or lyr is better for the hd800.
> 
> Nick sent a 1 sentence email saying "The ragnarok is on a different level, get it"
> 
> I felt like getting mad, till i remembered that my question is somewhat dumb, and a long answer is likely to increase the cost of the products. Getting a rag.


 

 I would like to see this email verbatim. Nick would not have recommended Ragnarok if you did not clearly indicate you were looking for an end-game amp, or budget was not a problem. He should have clearly sorted Valhalla, Lyr, and Vali by our personal results with the HD800.
  
 In fact, I logged on to the Schiit Tech account right now and found two relevant emails and responses. Are either of these yours? Nick's responses are in bold.
  
  
*Email 1:*
  
 Hey,
  
 Im here from the land where scams exceed real purchases. Ahaha, love the stories man.
 Jokes aside, im looking for an amp that works well with the HD800. Does not need to work well with others headphones (Planar etc) as i am unlikely to get other reference headphones. Earning power is a bitch here.
 Im thinking of the Ragnarok, the Valhalla, the Lyr or the Vali. Im asking as there is no way to test them here. 
  
*All of these are excellent choices with the HD800, with the two top ones being Ragnarok and Valhalla 2. *
  
 Tbh, i am unlikely to get the rag unless the difference is significant when compared to the others. On the Valhalla and Lyr, does it make that big of a difference to tube roll, if yes, what would you suggest.
  
*Yes, it does, but we have limited experience with tubes other than stock. The best resource are the tube rolling threads on Head-fi.*
  
 Basically, im looking for an amp, that can somewhat tame the top end of the HD800.
 One thing im looking for this amp to do, is to safeguard me from any other amp purchase. I need my methadone to protect me from all that cocaine flying about out there in headphone land.
 It needs to be good enough, so that i can enter a headphone meet, where for some reason, a guy has an EC 445 and Apex Pinnacle, and leave the meet thinking, you know what, its pretty good, but not so damn good, i must sell my *Insert schiit amp here* and mortgage my apartment to get those.
  
*Then you probably really are looking at Ragnarok. Valhalla 2 is exceptional for the price, but those amps are in a different class.*
  
 Thanks!
  
  
*Email 2:*
  
 Hello,
 I recently listened to several pairs of high-end headphones for a few hours, including the LCD 3, HD800 and Grado PS1000e, and I enjoyed the HD800 so much that I was thinking of getting a pair.
  
 However, being no audiophile, I can´t seem to be able to get my head around how much inconsistency of opinions and endless debates there are about which amps to get for which headphones, as well as what combinations of graphene/dark magic-powered diamond coated cables and tubes one should go for.
  
 Maybe it´s just my ears not being world-class, but not being able to notice any difference beyond placebo between an after-market $950 cable and the stock HD800 one that I was being recommended to purchase, I am starting to get the impression that a lot of the hi-fi industry is little more than snake oil.
  
 The salesman at the store also insisted that in order to fully appreciate a pair of HD800, I would need to buy at the very least a >$3k amp, which seemed way overkill for my needs.
  
 I then came by your website, which was really refreshing after reading 40 pages+ threads on head-fi, with no consensus whatsoever over what would best suit a situation like mine.
  
 Your products, according to what I read, seem to be more to the point, straightforward and a no-bs approach overall, which seems to be just what I was looking for.
  
 So to the point, which amp would you recommend me to purchase for running a pair of HD800?
 I will be using 44 kHz Flac and 320 kbps MP3s as source material, and I am looking to run them from a Retina Macbook Pro and perhaps an iPhone 6.
  
 I think a solid-state solution would suit me best, as I don´t like the idea of tubes burning out and having to replace them constantly. Unless there is any clear advantage in sound quality at that?
 I just want something that will sounds great with the HD800, but I honestly don´t care about the engineering/black magic/technical details behind it.
  
 I´d like it to be as "plug&play&forget" as possible, compact as I don´t have too much space, and finally as low as possible in price without degrading the kind of experience that the HD800 stands for.
  
 I am well aware that a lot of it comes down to personal preference, however as a beginner to this hobby, I am just completely lost in the sea of endless blabbering on head-fi and about to give up on the whole deal.
 Please advise what you personally think would work best for my situation - sorry for the long email
  
 Thank you!
  
*LOL, $3k for the HD800s? No. All of our amps are good with the HD800, from Ragnarok on down. I’d be looking at Valhalla 2 on the tube side (probably the best from a cost/performance perspective) and Asgard 2 on the solid state side (without getting into crazy money.)*
  
 Nick T.
 Schiit Tech
 tech@schiit.com


----------



## superjawes

Best rule of thumb in Modi [Anything] vs. Bifrost should be to buy based on features anyway. Even if the Bifrost sounded a little bit better, the big bonus is updatability. If Schiit come up with a better analog stage, the resulting products would be a Modi 3 (or Modi 3 Uber) and an "Uber 2" card for Bifrost. If USB gets a standard for better audio, that will get an upgrade card as well, while Modi would have to be completely reworked.

The only other benefit I see right now is that there are Black finish Bifrosts available right now to match the finish on my Valhalla (but I can't justify spending that much for it ).


----------



## crixnet

raybone0566 said:


> Well, there's always the mom & pop store. You can go there, drink hot chocolate, sing Kum ba yah and pay $1000.00 for a $300.00 amp. Whatever blows your hair back


 
 Well, bless your heart. So, relevance is not your strong suit. That's OK.


----------



## jaywillin

like most everything else, "relevance" is a matter of perception, as has already been touched on,  what's important to one, isn't to another
 and neither is right or wrong


----------



## reddog

superu said:


> Jason,
> 
> A helpful, kind, bonding sales approach is exactly what I was suggesting. Not hard sell. Something between short and terse and pushy.
> 
> ...



+1 Yes a grey approach would be best. I don't want to be fluffed, when buying a item, nor do I want the silent treatment either. However I do find Schiit Audio's website more than adequate for the few question I have asked of Nick. But I am a strange person and usually do not require assistance when purchasing a product. I am a bit of a lone wolf lol.


----------



## crixnet

jaywillin said:


> like most everything else, "relevance" is a matter of perception, as has already been touched on,  what's important to one, isn't to another
> and neither is right or wrong


 

 Whatever, man. I've made this exact point more than a few times so far. The fact is, this discussion atrophied into a colossal waste of time a while ago.
  
 For the record, I bought Schiit for a lot of good reasons. I own Schiit. I have supported Schiit and will continue to support Schiit. None of this was ever in question
  
 But asinine remarks about stupid shopping alternatives (e.g., Mom and Pop, chocolate, and misspelled "Kumbaya") devolved things to a mind-numbing low. It's this kind of grade-school BS and the name-calling that are irrelevant to a sincere, thoughtful conversation.
  
 Please feel free to agree with, disagree with or ignore any of the above or whatever has been said before. The world still spins.
  
 Now, I've got music to listen to. 
  
 Live long and prosper.


----------



## jaywillin

crixnet said:


> Whatever, man. I've made this exact point more than a few times so far. The fact is, this discussion atrophied into a colossal waste of time a while ago.
> 
> For the record, I bought Schiit for a lot of good reasons. I own Schiit. I have supported Schiit and will continue to support Schiit. None of this was ever in question
> 
> ...


 
 i wasn't trying to be argumentative , merely pointing out, as a couple of other's have, that discussions like these, don't usually go to well, because it's so subjective


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> +1 Yes a grey approach would be best. I don't want to be fluffed, when buying a item, nor do I want the silent treatment either. However I do find Schiit Audio's website more than adequate for the few question I have asked of Nick. But I am a strange person and usually do not require assistance when purchasing a product. *I am a bit of a lone wolf lol.*




...but now you have found ur wolf pack here on head-fi & now run through the wilderness with an unbridled animal savagery, howling rabidly at the lonesome yellow moon casting a pale shadow across the frigid tundra on cold winter nights... you sir have found your wolf brethren... your wolf brothers... your wolf family here at head-fi!!! may your stomach remain full on elk meat and may your ears never tire of the roaring cries of the wild!


----------



## raybone0566

money4me247 said:


> ...but now you have found ur wolf pack here on head-fi & now run through the wilderness with an unbridled animal savagery, howling rabidly at the lonesome yellow moon casting a pale shadow across the frigid tundra on cold winter nights... you sir have found your wolf brethren... your wolf brothers... your wolf family here at head-fi!!! may your stomach remain full on elk meat and may your ears never tire of the roaring cries of the wild!


 +1


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> ...but now you have found ur wolf pack here on head-fi & now run through the wilderness with an unbridled animal savagery, howling rabidly at the lonesome yellow moon casting a pale shadow across the frigid tundra on cold winter nights... you sir have found your wolf brethren... your wolf brothers... your wolf family here at head-fi!!! may your stomach remain full on elk meat and may your ears never tire of the roaring cries of the wild!


 
 Don't tell me that you eat raw Elk meat, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I'll keep my raw stuff to Sushi, Sashimi and Ceviche. I'll have to try Elk meat one day,cooked.


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> ...but now you have found ur wolf pack here on head-fi & now run through the wilderness with an unbridled animal savagery, howling rabidly at the lonesome yellow moon casting a pale shadow across the frigid tundra on cold winter nights... you sir have found your wolf brethren... your wolf brothers... your wolf family here at head-fi!!! may your stomach remain full on elk meat and may your ears never tire of the roaring cries of the wild!



Lol. Roflmao. The absurdity pleases me


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> Lol. Roflmao. The absurdity pleases me


 
 You eat raw Gator?


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> Don't tell me that you eat raw Elk meat,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If it tastes like reindeer you're not missing anything .....


----------



## reddog

stand said:


> You eat raw Gator?



Never raw lol. Although I will eat deep fried gator tail.


----------



## Pirakaphile

The only bad part about being a budget audiophile is almost every end-game mid-fi component is around $500. That's my yearly budget, nooooo! Well, in 4-5 years I'll have everything I really need. Hopefully Schiit advances into the speaker amp market before too long. All cool things start with wishful thinking!


----------



## TinearedOne

Yeah, many family expenses take priority over audio gear, so I will be a budget audiophile at least until the kids are out of college.


----------



## jogfi2002

Hey guys, do you think that the M&M (both Uber at about 298 in total) stack can do as well as a $300~$500 DAC+Amp ?


----------



## StanD

jogfi2002 said:


> Hey guys, do you think that the M&M (both Uber at about 298 in total) stack can do as well as a $300~$500 DAC+Amp ?


 
 Yes.


----------



## jogfi2002

stand said:


> Yes.


 
 Nice, I might consider to buy one.
  
 Maybe Modi2 Uber + Magni2 is already good for me.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Well...I'm getting rid of my Schiit (as well as all my other audio gear) to help fund an electrostatic system!
  
 If anyone wants my Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2, you can PM me.


----------



## Rotijon

jason stoddard said:


> I would like to see this email verbatim. Nick would not have recommended Ragnarok if you did not clearly indicate you were looking for an end-game amp, or budget was not a problem. He should have clearly sorted Valhalla, Lyr, and Vali by our personal results with the HD800.
> 
> In fact, I logged on to the Schiit Tech account right now and found two relevant emails and responses. Are either of these yours? Nick's responses are in bold.
> 
> ...


 


 Yep, mine is the first. If my post was inaccurate, i apologize, i did not refer back to the email. But i did specifically ask on the vallhalla, lyr, vali or rag. And to be honest, i was leaning on the rag very heavily.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

rotijon said:


> Yep, mine is the first. If my post was inaccurate, i apologize, i did not refer back to the email. But i did specifically ask on the vallhalla, lyr, vali or rag. And to be honest, i was leaning on the rag very heavily.




Yeah, but looking at your real post and comparing it with what you thought Nick said is pretty revealing. You completely misrepresented and misinterpreted Nick's response, which was actually helpful. You also failed to indicate there were three different exchanges, with the first one actually answering initial inquiry. In fact, in your response to Mike here you made it seem like Nick made only one fast reply back to you "Buy the rag" when in fact that did not occur, when in reality you kept pursuing the emails by expressing doubts in Nicks initial response, thus faking the pose of the hard sell.


----------



## Exidrion

rotijon said:


> Yep, mine is the first. If my post was inaccurate, i apologize, i did not refer back to the email. But i did specifically ask on the vallhalla, lyr, vali or rag. And to be honest, i was leaning on the rag very heavily.


 
 Lol, dude, you COMPLETELY misrepresented how the exchange went down in your initial post, and I find it difficult to believe that was unintentional.
  
 This just goes to show that you can't always trust other peoples opinions when it comes to a companies customer service. People are more likely to complain when they're mistreated than praise when they aren't.
  
 That's why reading negative yelp reviews are an exceptionally fun Sunday afternoon. Just this past week I've had 2 iterations with Schiit regarding my order, and both times they were fast and polite. In 2013, when I sent in my Bifrost for the Uber upgrade, I'd thought it got lost in the mail, but apparently I'd forgotten to label something and they promptly and politely explained that. AND it came back with brand new rubber feets. Nice little touch. All in all, if I, heaven forbid, run into problems when I receive the Ragnarok, I'm sure I'll be treated right.


----------



## David Aldrich

Guys let's cool the jets. No need to start a war over e-mail support.
  
 Schiit tries to keep cool concise e-mail support to help avoid confusion. Helpful criticism is appreciated if it is that. Attacking each other both in support of Nick and Schiit and against doesn't help anyone.
  
 Don't forget we're here to have fun and listen to music on good hardware.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

True proof the customer is far from always being right.


----------



## StanD

Jason does his research, I still expect that product archive page.


----------



## hodgjy

rotijon said:


> Yep, mine is the first. If my post was inaccurate, i apologize, i did not refer back to the email. But i did specifically ask on the vallhalla, lyr, vali or rag. And to be honest, i was leaning on the rag very heavily.


 
 When I first read your account of the exchange, I was inclined to believe you, but I had my doubts based on my history of email exchanges with Schiit.  Granted, they were short, but always accurate and cordial.  As a college professor, I get bombarded with emails daily myself, and probably nowhere near the volume that Schiit receives.  Keeping that in mind, if I spent time responding to every email in high detail, that's all I would be doing with my day.  I can imagine it's even worse for the people at Schiit.  I have to write very short responses to answer the question and move on to the next email in my inbox.
  
 Dealing with a list of emails is a completely different dynamic than replying to an email from your mother and then another from your best friend. Two emails is vastly different than 20. Or 200.
  
 But, you completely misrepresented the email exchange.  I realize memories fade, but one needs to be more careful when posting such accusations in a public forum.  You made it sound like Nick was unreasonable, when it the end, he was quite helpful.


----------



## MattTCG

hodgjy said:


> When I first read your account of the exchange, I was inclined to believe you, but I had my doubts based on my history of email exchanges with Schiit.  Granted, they were short, but always accurate and cordial.  As a college professor, I get bombarded with emails daily myself, and probably nowhere near the volume that Schiit receives.  Keeping that in mind, if I spent time responding to every email in high detail, that's all I would be doing with my day.  I can imagine it's even worse for the people at Schiit.  I have to write very short responses to answer the question and move on to the next email in my inbox.
> 
> Dealing with a list of emails is a completely different dynamic than replying to an email from your mother and then another from your best friend. Two emails is vastly different than 20. Or 200.
> 
> But, you completely misrepresented the email exchange.  I realize memories fade, but one needs to be more careful when posting such accusations in a public forum.  You made it sound like Nick was unreasonable, when it the end, he was quite helpful.


 
 THIS...


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks Jason for the consideration of adding an archived section to the web page.  I look at it from the heritage stand point.  It's Schiit history from a product perspective.


----------



## Delirious Lab

OK, enough of this.  Looks like Jason is going to stick to his customer service model, and most of us (I included) are happy that he's passing the savings to us Schiitheads.
  
 Case closed, pretty please, everybody?  Because I'd like to change the topic, been meaning to bring this up for a while, I don't think anyone ever has, but Jason, have you ever considered putting the power switch in the front of your amps?


----------



## Tuco1965

delirious lab said:


> OK, enough of this.  Looks like Jason is going to stick to his customer service model, and most of us (I included) are happy that he's passing the savings to us Schiitheads.
> 
> Case closed, pretty please, everybody?  Because I'd like to change the topic, been meaning to bring this up for a while, I don't think anyone ever has, but Jason, have you ever considered putting the power switch in the front of your amps?


 
  
 The switch isn't going to happen.  Discussed everywhere.


----------



## hodgjy

delirious lab said:


> OK, enough of this.  Looks like Jason is going to stick to his customer service model, and most of us (I included) are happy that he's passing the savings to us Schiitheads.
> 
> Case closed, pretty please, everybody?  *Because I'd like to change the topic, been meaning to bring this up for a while, I don't think anyone ever has, but Jason, have you ever considered putting the power switch in the front of your amps?*


 
 Enough of this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 This has been answered ad nauseum. It's never going to happen.


----------



## Billheiser

delirious lab said:


> Because I'd like to change the topic, been meaning to bring this up for a while, I don't think anyone ever has, but Jason, have you ever considered putting the power switch in the front of your amps?



LOL, good one!


----------



## raybone0566

Jason covered that a few weeks back if you follow this thread. Not gonna happen. He also mentioned a couple of DIY alternatives. It's all here.


----------



## StanD

delirious lab said:


> OK, enough of this.  Looks like Jason is going to stick to his customer service model, and most of us (I included) are happy that he's passing the savings to us Schiitheads.
> 
> Case closed, pretty please, everybody?  Because I'd like to change the topic, been meaning to bring this up for a while, I don't think anyone ever has, but Jason, have you ever considered putting the power switch in the front of your amps?


 
 I don't think everyone seems to get your joke about the power switch, C'mon all you stuffed shirts, laugh a little.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> I don't think everyone seems to get your joke about the power switch, C'mon all you stuffed shirts, laugh a little.


 
  
 I got it, but I'm still *really* curious about the Vali 2 that can run the HE-6s I plan to purchase based on Knick's recommendation...


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> I got it, but I'm still *really* curious about the Vali 2 that can run the HE-6s I plan to purchase based on Knick's recommendation...


 
 I think don't *Nick* is going to send you a Christmas card this year. Where did this rumor of a MegaWatt Vali start?


----------



## hodgjy

stand said:


> I don't think everyone seems to get your joke about the power switch, C'mon all you stuffed shirts, laugh a little.


 
 I got it as indicated by the smiley face.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> I think don't *Nick* is going to send you a Christmas card this year. Where did this rumor of a MegaWatt Vali start?


 
  
 One post above your reply


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I think don't *Nick* is going to send you a Christmas card this year. Where did this rumor of a MegaWatt Vali start?


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> One post above your reply


 
 You trying to hang that on Nick? Lately, he's taken enough Schiit.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> You trying to hang that on Nick? Lately, he's taken enough Schiit.


 
  
 Man, your reading comprehension has really slipped as you enter your dotage.  Give me enough time and I can concoct dig up my email exchange with *K*nick.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Man, your reading comprehension has really slipped as you enter your dotage.  Give me enough time and I can concoct dig up my email exchange with *K*nick.


 
 Can't be any worse than your spelling. Is Rangy busy writing up a faux email for you?


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Can't be any worse than your spelling. Is Rangy busy writing up a faux email for you?


 
  
 My spelling is spot on.  You wanna see bad spelling, wait for Rangy's concoction


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Can't be any worse than your spelling. Is Rangy busy writing up a faux email for you?


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> My spelling is spot on.  You wanna see bad spelling, wait for Rangy's concoction


 
 Isn't he busy soldering up some interconnects for you? When he's done he can work on Schiit's Archive webpage.


----------



## kstuart

thurstonx said:


> stand said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think everyone seems to get your joke about the power switch, C'mon all you stuffed shirts, laugh a little.
> ...


 

 Now we know how rumors get started - as jokes.


----------



## StanD

kstuart said:


> Now we know how rumors get started - as jokes.


 
 You must be kidding.


----------



## Billheiser

kstuart said:


> Now we know how rumors get started - as jokes.


A nun, a rabbi, a blonde, and a 200 watt Vali walk into a bar. Bartender says "hey, what is this, some kind of joke?"


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> A nun, a rabbi, a blonde, and a 200 watt Vali walk into a bar. Bartender says "hey, what is this, some kind of joke?"


 
 Did the Blonde get it?


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> Did the Blonde get it?


 
  
 Define *it*?


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> Define *it*?


 
 Ask Bill, it's his joke.  You're not blonde are you?


----------



## Butler

Mjolnir and Gungnir reporting in!

Hood of the car in Jason's garage era Asgard is at work, put putting along my LCD- 2.2's.


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> Did the Blonde get it?


 

 Well, she asked for a double entendre, and I sure gave it to her.


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> Well, she asked for a double entendre, and I sure gave it to her.


 
 That's it Schiit can make a new product. It's an empty box with a power switch on front. They'll have to break with their naming strategy and call it,"The Blonde."


----------



## money4me247

lol this thread... actually getting sillier & less helpful ever day.


----------



## crixnet

money4me247 said:


> lol this thread... actually getting sillier & less helpful ever day.


 

 It takes a village.


----------



## ThurstonX

crixnet said:


> It takes a village.


 
  
 Yes, and the village idiot award goes to... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
  
  
Maybe it's a trick question, and Schiit is using Time Magazine's mirror-on-the-cover


----------



## MattTCG

.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I said the same thing. $800 later in tubes, there's no helping me now. Lol. Cheers 


cormbeep said:


> Yeah, it's a HUGE upgrade!  I'm very happy with my purchase.
> 
> And no, I'm not going to that thread.  You have no idea what lies I told my wife so I can get these.  If she ever finds out how much I spent on these, I'll probably get kicked out of the house.  LOL!
> 
> OK... maybe next week I'll take a peek at tubes


----------



## crixnet

thurstonx said:


> Yes, and the village idiot award goes to...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Precisely. But there's No need to stop at just one. There is an apparent plethora of worthy contenders.


----------



## StanD

crixnet said:


> Precisely. But there's No need to stop at just one. There is an apparent plethora of worthy contenders.


 
 Well, this is a big village.


----------



## reddog

My Lyr 2 is not a year old and I already spent 600 dollars, on tubes, this aspect of this hobby, particularly dams the wallet to oblivion lol.


----------



## Delirious Lab

reddog said:


> My Lyr 2 is not a year old and I already spent 600 dollars, on tubes, this aspect of this hobby, particularly dams the wallet to oblivion lol.


 
  
 I love my Vali a little more every time I read posts like this.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> My Lyr 2 is not a year old and I already spent 600 dollars, on tubes, this aspect of this hobby, particularly dams the wallet to oblivion lol.


 
  
  


delirious lab said:


> I love my Vali a little more every time I read posts like this.


 
 I love my Asgard 2 and Magni everytime I see a post like that. Actually I prefer the sound of SS.
 Buncha Tube Rolling Whingers.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> My Lyr 2 is not a year old and I already spent 600 dollars, on tubes, this aspect of this hobby, particularly dams the wallet to oblivion lol.


 
 considering the expensive pricing of some tubes, that is not surprising at all.
  
 i would recommend new members looking to hard-core tube roll to choose project ember instead. it is amazing the amount of money you save when you do not need to buy a matched set of tubes.


----------



## wahsmoh

In reference to the old DACs of the past I may end up buying a Theta Digital DS Pro Basic III DAC just because I've been obsessed lately with 90's gear and I want to see what this $2,600 MSRP DAC sounds like at it's relative value (about $300-400) today.
  
 Will be interesting to see how it compares to the Schiit Bifrost Uber which is Mike Moffat's more recent creation/undertaking. So a 90's reference DAC versus a modern DAC that has excellent price to performance ratio. Stay tuned


----------



## ThurstonX

money4me247 said:


> considering the expensive pricing of some tubes, that is not surprising at all.
> 
> i would recommend new members looking to hard-core tube roll to choose project ember instead. it is amazing the amount of money you save when you do not need to buy a matched set of tubes.


 
  
 This may or may not interest people, but I found it... ummm, errrr, interesting regarding the differences between the Lyr and the Ember.  Not having heard the Ember, I can't comment.  I do know people dig it, esp. with their HFM cans.
  
 Quoting @rb2013:
  
 "The Project Ember uses the tube satge as a buffer - hence the wide range of choices.  The output is fixed opamps (as opposed to the Project Starlight which had swappable opamps).  The Lyr uses a true tube driven output stage - no opamps.
  
 Without an opamp preamp stage there is no way a single 6922 type tube could provide enough gain.  The Lyr uses both sections of a dual triode to feed the MOSFET solid state outputs."
  
 Full post here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/755300/schiit-lyr-lyr-2-tube-compatibility-list/15#post_11388940


----------



## reddog

money4me247 said:


> considering the expensive pricing of some tubes, that is not surprising at all.
> 
> i would recommend new members looking to hard-core tube roll to choose project ember instead. it is amazing the amount of money you save when you do not need to buy a matched set of tubes.



+1 I have read a lot of good things about the Project Ember, and having only one tube, to roll, does have its advantages.


----------



## reddog

stand said:


> I love my Asgard 2 and Magni everytime I see a post like that. Actually I prefer the sound of SS.
> Buncha Tube Rolling Whingers.



I recently got the Asgard 2, and it is a very nice SS amp. I love tubes , but I kinda like not worrying about them ,when using my SS amps. I only use my lyr2 amp, for an hour a night, otherwise, I use my Ragnarok, as my primary amp and the A2 in my porch ( wildlife watching).


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> I recently got the Asgard 2, and it is a very nice SS amp. I love tubes , but I kinda like not worrying about them ,when using my SS amps. I only use my lyr2 amp, for an hour a night, otherwise, I use my Ragnarok, as my primary amp and the A2 in my porch ( wildlife watching).


 
 Looks like you have everyplace covered, but the outhouse.


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> Looks like you have everyplace covered, but the outhouse.




Now you did it. He likely thought he was done. Way to go.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> I recently got the Asgard 2, and it is a very nice SS amp. I love tubes , but I kinda like not worrying about them ,when using my SS amps. I only use my lyr2 amp, for an hour a night, otherwise, I use my Ragnarok, as my primary amp and the A2 in my porch ( wildlife watching).


 
  
  


stand said:


> Looks like you have everyplace covered, but the outhouse.


 
  
  


tuco1965 said:


> Now you did it. He likely thought he was done. Way to go.


 
 I'd like to see Nick's reply to the question, "What piece of Schiit do you recommend for the Schiithouse?"


----------



## MWSVette

stand said:


> I'd like to see Nick's reply to the question, "What piece of Schiit do you recommend for the Schiithouse?"


 

 That's easy a Fulla...


----------



## hodgjy

I'm finding this thread less useful and interesting every day.


----------



## money4me247

hodgjy said:


> I'm finding this thread less useful and interesting every day.


 
 lol. omg so true. may be unsubscribing soon if the conversations continue to get more silly & irrelevant to actual Schiit products.


----------



## reddog

tuco1965 said:


> Now you did it. He likely thought he was done. Way to go.



I guess I can get a magni 2 and a modi 2, all ubered, must not be without proper music lol. One day I might do that, but for now I on the quest to get the dac of the gods lol.


----------



## hodgjy

money4me247 said:


> lol. omg so true. may be unsubscribing soon if the conversations continue to get more silly & irrelevant to actual Schiit products.


 
 And if the conversation isn't about some inanity, it's about the double-blind "every component sounds the same" stuff.


----------



## reddog

hodgjy said:


> And if the conversation isn't about some inanity, it's about the double-blind "every component sounds the same" stuff.



True that particular argument grows old fast. Once Schiit Audio adds more gear, the thread will become more focused again..


----------



## Tuco1965

reddog said:


> True that particular argument grows old fast. Once Schiit Audio adds more gear, the thread will become more focused again..


 
  
 New gear will certainly change the chatter.  
  
 With a company name such as Schiit, puns are to be expected.  Sure they can get over the top some times.  Not everyone gets on the bus at the same time so to speak, from the pun perspective.
  
 I don't just like my Schiit, I love it.
  
 This thread keeps me connected to fellow Schiitheads.


----------



## reddog

tuco1965 said:


> New gear will certainly change the chatter.
> 
> With a company name such as Schiit, puns are to be expected.  Sure they can get over the top some times.  Not everyone gets on the bus at the same time so to speak, from the pun perspective.
> 
> ...



Well said. I love my Schiit and this thread. And if the thread gets off target, so what, the puns are fun. When I did medieval fairs, I use the pun " Huns for nuns or nuns for Huns" and it was great fun till a flock of actual nuns heard it lol. I know I going to help lol.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> Well said. I love my Schiit and this thread. And if the thread gets off target, so what, the puns are fun. When I did medieval fairs, I use the pun " Huns for nuns or nuns for Huns" and it was great fun till a flock of actual nuns heard it lol. I know I going to help lol.


 
 Huns for Schiit. Not a good pun, oh well.


----------



## StanD

Now, how about that rumor about a Vali 2 that Thurston was spreading?


----------



## MWSVette

stand said:


> Now, how about that rumor about a Vali 2 that Thurston was spreading?


 

 Can somebody check with Knick to see if the Vali 2 going to have an Uber model too...


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> Can somebody check with Knick to see if the Vali 2 going to have an Uber model too...


 
 Didn't Jason say that there wasn't going to be any upgrades this year? Hence, Thurston spreading rumors that he's going to hang on Rangy.


----------



## MWSVette

stand said:


> Didn't Jason say that there wasn't going to be any upgrades this year? Hence, Thurston spreading rumors that he's going to hang on Rangy.


 

 I know StanD, I was kidding...  Just trying to plow up a little Schiit...


----------



## Music Alchemist

Wanted a little advice for the future, in case anyone would happen to know. For the moment, I am getting rid of my Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 to help fund an electrostatic system. If I make enough after that to get the JVC HA-SZ2000, I would also be tempted to get another normal amp again, since owners of that headphone say its bass, etc. improves with amplification. Would you all say that the Magni 2 Uber is the best value for its price? What reasonably priced alternative desktop amps (aside from the JDS Labs Objective2) are there?


----------



## Tuco1965

I'd love to see some kind of bluetooth Schiit gear to use in a more portable system.  Load the Schiit out of it and bring it on.


----------



## cuiter23

tuco1965 said:


> I'd love to see some kind of bluetooth Schiit gear to use in a more portable system.  Load the Schiit out of it and bring it on.


 
  
 I don't know about bluetooth, maybe WiFi or Airplay. Bluetooth compresses like crazy.


----------



## StanD

cuiter23 said:


> I don't know about bluetooth, maybe WiFi or Airplay. Bluetooth compresses like crazy.


 
 That depends on the Bluetooth codec. Bluetooth EDR will even vary how the SBC codec works, Then there's Apt-x. We've gone well past the old Bluetooth 2.0 non EDR SBC codec.


----------



## wavz

I just got my MODI from fedex and paired it with the VALI that I got a few months ago using USB to drive it from my IMAC through my ATH-M50's and WOW! I'm loving the sound!!! My first steps into the audiophile world are amazing! But how do you all afford it???


----------



## David Aldrich

​


----------



## wavz

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Brilliant reply!!!!!!!


----------



## wahsmoh

It's a slippery slope called Head-fi...
  
 I started with the Rolls HA43 Pro which is a decent 4-channel mixer style headphone amp that I only use now for shared headphone listening with one of my friends.
  
 Looking back on the HA43 I had to put volume knob at around 8, on the 1-10 volume knob and it still was barely able to power the DT880.
  
 Glad that entry-level headphone amps start now at $100 and you can get something that is far better than a Rolls HA43 Pro($50) that is a major leap in power too (such as the Magni Uber/Vali)
  
 Having an awesome sounding budget setup is fairly affordable now compared to previous Head-fi(before 2010) of overglorified $1000+ DACs with pathetic output stages.


----------



## raybone0566

wavz said:


> I just got my MODI from fedex and paired it with the VALI that I got a few months ago using USB to drive it from my IMAC through my ATH-M50's and WOW! I'm loving the sound!!! My first steps into the audiophile world are amazing! But how do you all afford it???


 Plenty Ramon noodles


----------



## MWSVette

mgavin said:


> Looks like my Valhalla 2 is back ordered.


 

 Not just the Valhalla 2,  all of the amps except the Magni 2 and Vali.


----------



## davidflas

mgavin said:


> Looks like my Valhalla 2 is back ordered.


 

 I'm in the same boat, first it was 7-10 days, now it's the end of March... I'm sure it will be worth the wait, but I am terrible at being patient.


----------



## mgavin

davidflas said:


> I'm in the same boat, first it was 7-10 days, now it's the end of March... I'm sure it will be worth the wait, but I am terrible at being patient. :confused_face:


 

Yep! I'm excited! Let's share our experiencies when we get ours! I'll be using the dt880/600.


----------



## freedom01

You guys will love the V2.
  
 Built like a tank. Sounds so accurate and yet orgasmic for what it is worth.
  
 Worth the wait.
  
 I had mine back-ordered too when I purchased it last December.
 Received early this year.


----------



## Fegefeuer

EU says March 15th delivery but let's see if I'm part of the V2 club next week.


----------



## davidflas

Based on my DIY experiences with TPA3116 speaker amps, I'd love to see a Vallhalla 2 sized amp made by Schiit.


----------



## Sillyness

My Schiit stack is arriving today! Woohoo! Coming in the package will be a Magni 2U, Vali, Modi 2U, Wyrd, and Sys.
  
 Does this make me a Schiithead?
  
 I was going to post a quick screeny of the "out for delivery" page, but my account still doesn't have the required permissions.

 Quick question. I'm wondering if there's any reason I should use the Magni 2U over the Sys as a pre-out for my powered monitors. Currently, I'm planning on using the Sys.

 Thanks, everyone!


----------



## davidflas

mgavin said:


> Yep! I'm excited! Let's share our experiencies when we get ours! I'll be using the dt880/600.




I am actually planning on using mine as a preamp for the DIY TPA3116 speaker amp that I have on my desktop. I'd love to share my listening experiences.


----------



## Matro5

davidflas said:


> Based on my DIY experiences with TPA3116 speaker amps, I'd love to see a Vallhalla 2 sized amp made by Schiit.


 
  
 Absolutely. I think this is a perfect extension of the Asgard / Valhalla / Lyr + Bifrost stack.


----------



## wahsmoh

That would truly be amazing. For people with passive speakers and limited space, an affordable power amp made in the USA would be so fitting.


----------



## reddog

sillyness said:


> My Schiit stack is arriving today! Woohoo! Coming in the package will be a Magni 2U, Vali, Modi 2U, Wyrd, and Sys.
> 
> Does this make me a Schiithead?
> 
> ...



Welcome to Club Schiit, may your stack of Schiit always put a smile on your face and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your wallet.


----------



## BeatsWork

wahsmoh said:


> That would truly be amazing. For people with passive speakers and limited space, an affordable power amp made in the USA would be so fitting.


 
  
 Dunno, that might canabalize sales of the $1700 16 x 12 x 3.75” Ragnarok


----------



## hodgjy

reddog said:


> Welcome to Club Schiit, may your stack of Schiit always put a smile on your face and drown out the sobbing lamentations of your wallet.


 
 I hereby nominate reddog as the official greeter and head of the welcoming committee for all things Schiit.  All in favor?


----------



## Music Alchemist

hodgjy said:


> I hereby nominate reddog as the official greeter and head of the welcoming committee for all things Schiit.  All in favor?


 
  
 Here here! *insert vague Norse superhero phrase here*
  
 That "Death by Ragnarok" thing was epic. It should have its own thread. lol
  
 I didn't notice until now that you're the thread starter!


----------



## hodgjy

music alchemist said:


> Here here! *insert vague Norse superhero phrase here*
> 
> That "Death by Ragnarok" thing was epic. It should have its own thread. lol
> 
> I didn't notice until now that you're the thread starter!


 
 I got on board with Schiit pretty close to the start.  Asgard 1 was pretty awesome.  I beta tested the Asgard 2.  Love Schiit products.


----------



## reddog

hodgjy said:


> I got on board with Schiit pretty close to the start.  Asgard 1 was pretty awesome.  I beta tested the Asgard 2.  Love Schiit products.



Schiit Audio is a fantastic company, who offer real value for their products. I bet one day I will have most of Schiit Audio's products.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> Schiit Audio is a fantastic company, who offer real value for their products. I bet one day I will have most of Schiit Audio's products.


 
 Some people collect stamps, some people collect cars, you collect Schiit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 That came out funny. Oops two puns for the price of one.


----------



## reddog

stand said:


> Some people collect stamps, some people collect cars, you collect Schiit.   That came out funny. Oops two puns for the price of one.



+1 lol.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

wavz said:


> I just got my MODI from fedex and paired it with the VALI that I got a few months ago using USB to drive it from my IMAC through my ATH-M50's and WOW! I'm loving the sound!!! My first steps into the audiophile world are amazing! But how do you all afford it???


 
  
 You soon realize that 70% of it is pure unadulterated capitalism with false promises of golden ear heaven. Research thoroughly before you buy anything, and research how exactly audio and especially digital audio works with full explanation in layman's terms. Listen with your mind, not your ears


----------



## money4me247

blackenedplague said:


> You soon realize that 70% of it is pure unadulterated capitalism with false promises of golden ear heaven. Research thoroughly before you buy anything, and research how exactly audio and especially digital audio works with full explanation in layman's terms. Listen with your mind, not your ears


 
 yea, this. if more people took the time to research prior to buying stuff, I think the overall quality of products being offered will improve.
  
 a lot of improvements can sometimes be due to placebo effect, so just be careful!


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

maybe we need a thread dedicated to the fresh fish that can be saved from the fisherman


----------



## reddog

hodgjy said:


> I hereby nominate reddog as the official greeter and head of the welcoming committee for all things Schiit.  All in favor?



Sweet. It's always a pleasure to welcome new w people to Club Schiit


----------



## wavz

blackenedplague said:


> maybe we need a thread dedicated to the fresh fish that can be saved from the fisherman



Amen!


----------



## 420745

Hello Schiitheads!


----------



## wavz

Congrats and enjoy!!


----------



## cuiter23

cormbeep said:


> Hello Schiitheads!


 
  
 Beauty!


----------



## jexby

oh the wait the WAIT for the awesomeness of Yggy to be released is killing me (softly)!?
 why?  without the rack space, electrical grid capacity nor budget for the behemoth DAC.....
  
 really hoping for some tech of Yggy (not power or R2R) to trickle down into Gungnir or BiFrost in terms of new boards/improvements.


----------



## Mr Rick

jexby said:


> oh the wait the WAIT for the awesomeness of Yggy to be released is killing me (softly)!?
> why?  without the rack space, electrical grid capacity nor budget for the behemoth DAC.....
> 
> really hoping for some tech of Yggy (not power or R2R) to trickle down into Gungnir or BiFrost in terms of new boards/improvements.


 
 I'm of the mind that I won't hear the difference between the Yggy and the other two. I'd be happily proven wrong.


----------



## BeatsWork

cormbeep said:


> Hello Schiitheads!


 
  
 Street cred takes a bit of a hit from Elmo - may I suggest upgrade?


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> I'm of the mind that I won't hear the difference between the Yggy and the other two. I'd be happily proven wrong.


 
 +1 I'm with you on this.


----------



## Larryp12

How are you connecting your Bifrost to the MacBook Air? USB?


----------



## cuiter23

larryp12 said:


> How are you connecting your Bifrost to the MacBook Air? USB?




yes, the Bifrost has a USB option.


----------



## 420745

LMAO!  I'm not sure if my son will like that though.
  
 Quote:


beatswork said:


> Street cred takes a bit of a hit from Elmo - may I suggest upgrade?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Dang! I ALMOST bought the Mjollnir. Then I noticed it was balance OUT-not in. I was looking for Balanced IN and OUT. Oh well.
 My Audio Chain is Oppo BDP105D Balanced OUT to Balanced IN RANE DEQ60L EQ (Pro EQ to EQ my Higher Freq hearing loss above 2 K).
 And I was hoping to use balanced OUT from the Rane to Balanced In on the MJ. 
 So that leaves Ragnarok. Yikes!
 Or using a transformer to convert to unbalanced RCA. 
 Schiit? Please make the MJ 2 with Balanced IN! Thanks!


----------



## Mr Rick

exacoustatowner said:


> Dang! I ALMOST bought the Mjollnir. Then I noticed it was balance OUT-not in. I was looking for Balanced IN and OUT. Oh well.
> My Audio Chain is Oppo BDP105D Balanced OUT to Balanced IN RANE DEQ60L EQ (Pro EQ to EQ my Higher Freq hearing loss above 2 K).
> And I was hoping to use balanced OUT from the Rane to Balanced In on the MJ.
> So that leaves Ragnarok. Yikes!
> ...


 
 I suggest you look again.


----------



## Billheiser

*"No-Excuses, End-Game Balanced Amp*
*You won’t find any balanced-to-single-ended conversion or vice-versa in Mjolnir. It’s balanced in and balanced out, with a 4-gang RK27 Alps volume pot--providing end-game performance for a mid-level price."*
 
(From Schitt's website)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

billheiser said:


> *"No-Excuses, End-Game Balanced Amp*
> *You won’t find any balanced-to-single-ended conversion or vice-versa in Mjolnir. It’s balanced in and balanced out, with a 4-gang RK27 Alps volume pot--providing end-game performance for a mid-level price."*
> 
> (From Schitt's website)


 
 Thanks Bill and Mr.Rick! They were showing a pic of the back end of the Lyr in the picture. I just ordered balanced cables too,
 I hope to soon be headphone deep in Schiit!


----------



## BeatsWork

exacoustatowner said:


> Dang! I ALMOST bought the Mjollnir. Then I noticed it was balance OUT-not in. I was looking for Balanced IN and OUT. Oh well.
> My Audio Chain is Oppo BDP105D Balanced OUT to Balanced IN RANE DEQ60L EQ (Pro EQ to EQ my Higher Freq hearing loss above 2 K).
> And I was hoping to use balanced OUT from the Rane to Balanced In on the MJ.
> So that leaves Ragnarok. Yikes!
> ...


 
  
 Mjolnir IS balanced in and out


----------



## Music Alchemist

Looks like I'm gonna get the Fulla to use with the JVC HA-SZ2000! Wish me luck.
  
 (I will probably wait a little longer to get the expensive electrostatic system, since I have other expenses to cover.)


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> +1 I'm with you on this.


 
  
 yah, the top of the line Schiit DAC sounds exactly the same, and as good as all their other DACs.
 that's why they make the expensive Yggy-  to rip us off and waste their time.  
 please.


----------



## Mr Rick

jexby said:


> yah, the top of the line Schiit DAC sounds exactly the same, and as good as all their other DACs.
> that's why they make the expensive Yggy-  to rip us off and waste their time.
> please.


 
 Well, at least you got that first part right.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

beatswork said:


> Mjolnir IS balanced in and out


 
 Thanks BeatsWork


----------



## jexby

mr rick said:


> Well, at least you got that first part right.


 
  
 DAC trolls should have their avatar labelled as such, here on head-fi.


----------



## hodgjy

jexby said:


> DAC trolls should have their avatar labelled as such, here on head-fi.


 
 Some people actually can't hear the difference between amps and dacs.  Some people can.  No one should fault the people who can't, and we shouldn't ridicule or minimize those who can.  The worst group are those who believe there's no differences to justify the gear they have.  Should someone love what they have?  Yes.  The fault lies in having such a closed mind about things and then preaching it as truth to everyone else.


----------



## Larryp12

Thanks. I also have a similar setup - Macbook Air/Lyr 2/Modi/Sennheiser 650. I'm going to purchase a Bifrost Uber soon and wondering if I can get by without the USB option.


----------



## cuiter23

larryp12 said:


> Thanks. I also have a similar setup - Macbook Air/Lyr 2/Modi/Sennheiser 650. I'm going to purchase a Bifrost Uber soon and wondering if I can get by without the USB option.


 
  
 Not AFAIK.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Mjolnir has shipped! I may have it for a few days without the balanced HP cables. I ordered those from HeadDirect with 2 day shipping-but have yet to see a shipping notice.
 Should I power it on anyway? I can feed signal in from my Oppo BDP-105D. I wonder if it can "break in" (assuming its real) without the HP connected?
 If I am LUCKY-I will have both on Saturday! I am excited about the impending Schiit-Storm!


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> Mjolnir has shipped! I may have it for a few days without the balanced HP cables. I ordered those from HeadDirect with 2 day shipping-but have yet to see a shipping notice.
> Should I power it on anyway? I can feed signal in from my Oppo BDP-105D. I wonder if it can "break in" (assuming its real) without the HP connected?
> If I am LUCKY-I will have both on Saturday! I am excited about the impending Schiit-Storm!



Sweet welcome to Club Schiit, hope your mighty Mjolnir puts a smile on your face.


----------



## kais246

Hey guys, completely new here (but have been reading for a little, you guys passively helped me decide on my HFI-780s that I love so dearly) so sorry if this question has been addressed and a quick poke in the right direction will be fine.
  
 Anyway, As of yesterday I purchased a Vali (like a Magni 2 but with a tube I believe, theoretically should warm up my 780s fairly notorious top end) and a Modi 2. Now issue is, to my semi untrained ears they both sound very average considering I dropped $400AUD for the pair.
 I've found the Modi 2, when connected as Computer > USB > Modi > (cheap) RCA > Headphones it sounds quite bright I suppose. It also doesn't seem to have the same intensity as just running audio through my Asus Zonar D1. The Zonar seems to provide just a better sound overall with more what I'm going to call 'resolution' on all levels while also providing a more pleasant bottom end. Basically the Modi seems to have taken the entire spectrum of a song and lifted it up so it's much more shrill and empty. Sibilance seems to have gotten worse as well.
  
 Do I have it set up right? Someone was saying an amp should be used but the Modi 2 pumps out a huge amount of volume to the point where having my computer set to 20% is only just listenable. My headphones are only 32ohm.
  
 Again, it could just be my untrained ear but I reallllly don't think that could be the case or my venture into high quality audio is going to be fairly short lived.
  
 The Vali issue is a different thing and is associated with my turntable I feel. (LP120-USB) The phono still runs through capacitors that put a negative spin on everything. I might take that up in a different thread.
  
 Thanks for any help guys!
  
 *EDIT* So you know, I actually made the 'stack' going Modi 2 > Vali and the problem is resolved life is good! Any tips for taking full advantage of this setup?


----------



## keemniloc

I'm happy you figured out the problem! If you're curious, Wikipedia has an article on "Line Level" that explains what you're hearing. Enjoy the music!


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> yah, the top of the line Schiit DAC sounds exactly the same, and as good as all their other DACs.
> that's why they make the expensive Yggy-  to rip us off and waste their time.
> please.


 
 They are running a business and have to satisfy different customer pricing tiers. Even their top tier is far less expensive than the competition. As long as some people want to buy such stuff and 24 bit hirez files, someone is going to get into the action and sell it.


----------



## BobFiggins

What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber? 
  
 I found a well detailed article about this question here:
 http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/schiit-bifrost-bifrost-uber-dac
  
 "If you are limited on funds and/or enjoy a richer sound that is delivered with a mild and forgiving haze in which the delicacies of detail and intimacy take a back seat, then the standard Bifrost will more than likely delight. If on the other hand you crave a more open and revealing presentation delivered with refined finesse and a closer emotional connection to your music, then go for the Uber and don’t look back."
  
Sometimes I feel silly for continuing on this path, trying to get the HD700 to sound good with minimal EQ. Though after hearing it on a crazy expensive DAC, I know what it is capable of, and it is incredible. Looking to tame sibilance, while keeping most of the detail. Obviously I won't be able to get all of it away (I just listen to sibilant music, bleh), but after reading that review it sounds like the Bifrost without Uber sounds better for me, but then again without hearing it, perhaps it's better yet smoother, I don't know. So I'm asking you guys!
  
Appreciate the help!


----------



## crixnet

bobfiggins said:


> What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber?
> 
> I found a well detailed article about this question here:
> http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/schiit-bifrost-bifrost-uber-dac
> ...


 

 I have the Bitfrost Uber and it sounds fantastic. It's up to you, but I would go with the Uber for a number of reasons. As for phones, you might be better off with other cans that perform the way you want, rather than trying to conform your system to the HD700. Just some thoughts.


----------



## StanD

bobfiggins said:


> What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber?
> 
> I found a well detailed article about this question here:
> http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/schiit-bifrost-bifrost-uber-dac
> ...


 
 You will not tame sibilance with a DAC or amp. It has to do with a peak in the FR or accentuated treble of your headphones. Look to EQ to help with this, the rest is fiction.
 If I remember the HD700 has a big peak around 6-7 kHz which is prime territory for sibalence.


----------



## evanft

bobfiggins said:


> What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber?
> 
> I found a well detailed article about this question here:
> http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/schiit-bifrost-bifrost-uber-dac
> ...


 
  
 Your best option is to dump the HD700s, IMHO.


----------



## Stillhouse

Got a Magni 2 Wednesday, using it along with some HD598s, a Pioneer PL-A45D & BBE FJB-200X phono preamp. Really enjoying the whole rig. My ears deserved a treat.


----------



## Billheiser

bobfiggins said:


> What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber?
> ...



The Difference between Uber and non-Uber is slight and subtle- not big enough to address any frequency response issues in your headphones


----------



## StanD

evanft said:


> Your best option is to dump the HD700s, IMHO.


 
 +1 That's what I'd do. Somehow I think that the owner might not like hearing that.


----------



## cuiter23

bobfiggins said:


> What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber?
> 
> I found a well detailed article about this question here:
> http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/schiit-bifrost-bifrost-uber-dac
> ...




Time to spend some more and get a new can


----------



## Mr Rick

bobfiggins said:


> What is your guys' opinion on the difference in sound with the Bifrost vs the Bifrost Uber?
> 
> I found a well detailed article about this question here:
> http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/schiit-bifrost-bifrost-uber-dac
> ...


 
 The 650s would probably be more to your liking.


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> Looks like I'm gonna get the Fulla to use with the JVC HA-SZ2000! Wish me luck.
> 
> (I will probably wait a little longer to get the expensive electrostatic system, since I have other expenses to cover.)


 
  
  
 From Fulla/JVC to electrostatic.  That's a rather massive leap!


----------



## Music Alchemist

beatswork said:


> From Fulla/JVC to electrostatic.  That's a rather massive leap!


 
  
 Yeah, but look at my profile. I've owned other gear too, including the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2.
  
 My reason for getting the JVC is because it's said to be the ultimate bass headphone.
  
 Also, in case you didn't see in my older posts, I can import the STAX SRS-2170 system (SR-207 headphones and SRM-252S amp) from Japan for under $400 instead of the $790 US retail price. After shipping and getting either a voltage transformer or power supply with negative polarity attachment, it would cost around $500. So it's much more affordable than most electrostatic systems. I actually know someone who likes the SR-207 more than the SR-009!


----------



## judmarc

baldr said:


> I use the BSD operating system. I have sent them 3 queries – two of the answers were one word. RTFM. All three emails were answered. Why do I put up with this? Because BSD is the best OS there is for a file server with the best license there is – period.


 
  
 FreeBSD or another flavor?


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, but look at my profile. I've owned other gear too, including the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2.
> 
> My reason for getting the JVC is because it's said to be the ultimate bass headphone.
> 
> Also, in case you didn't see in my older posts, I can import the STAX SRS-2170 system (SR-207 headphones and SRM-252S amp) from Japan for under $400 instead of the $790 US retail price. After shipping and getting either a voltage transformer or power supply with negative polarity attachment, it would cost around $500. So it's much more affordable than most electrostatic systems. I actually know someone who likes the SR-207 more than the SR-009!


 

 $400?!  -  Hmmm.  And how much would shipping & "handling" be to the US? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  No, no - I must resist this line of thought .......


----------



## Music Alchemist

beatswork said:


> $400?!  -  Hmmm.  And how much would shipping & "handling" be to the US?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 EMS shipping would be $39, but I already factored that into the ~$500 total.


----------



## David Aldrich

music alchemist said:


> EMS shipping would be $39, but I already factored that into the ~$500 total.


 

 I think he was hinting at how much you would want to ship him a pair.


----------



## Music Alchemist

david aldrich said:


> I think he was hinting at how much you would want to ship him a pair.


 
  
 I feel so clueless now. XD


----------



## namhkim

Wow, over 600 pages!
I've got only one Schiit Vali ! For now!
I'm kinda waiting to see if Schiit will produce not so small desktop DAC/Amp/preamp combo device (Other than Fuller), something like WA7..


----------



## BobFiggins

mr rick said:


> The 650s would probably be more to your liking.


 
  
 Actually borrowing a 650 right now thanks to Head-Fi user BIGPOPPA. As good as it sounds, to me it feels a bit thin, and the midrange is sticking out like a sore thumb. I can definitely admit it sounds incredible, but it's not the sound signature I'm looking for.
  
 The HD700 sounds incredible with some EQ adjustments. One of the reasons I haven't immediately sold it. I would definitely be happy keeping it forever. Though at the same time part of me would like a headphone that sounds good on most setups without having to EQ. For instance if I bring my HD700 to another Head0Fi'ers house, it sounds awfully sibilant and it's annoying. 
  
 Also, I am saving for the EL-8 for sure. HD-800 sounds like something I'd rather try at a meet, rather than purchasing outright to see how it is. Also would take forever to save up for one. I hear it's bright, if not brighter, but has less sibilance issues than the HD700, which sounds really good to me. I don't mind bright at all, in fact I almost prefer it. Just without the sibilance.


----------



## Saraguie

namhkim said:


> Wow, over 600 pages!
> I've got only one Schiit Vali ! For now!
> I'm kinda waiting to see if Schiit will produce not so small desktop DAC/Amp/preamp combo device (Other than Fuller), something like WA7..



Schitt does not believe in combo units. Jason has stated many times no combos PERIOD.


----------



## Music Alchemist

saraguie said:


> Schitt does not believe in combo units. Jason has stated many times no combos PERIOD.


 
  
 Except for the Fulla, of course. XD
  
 (I know it's not technically a desktop unit, but still...)


----------



## Saraguie

music alchemist said:


> Except for the Fulla, of course. XD
> 
> (I know it's not technically a desktop unit, but still...)



My bad


----------



## superjawes

saraguie said:


> music alchemist said:
> 
> 
> > Except for the Fulla, of course. XD
> ...


Yeah, Fulla is the exception because it's at such a low price ($79 for DAC+Amp compared to $198). Otherwise, they don't like having analog circuits "swimming in digital noise". There's also the issue of DAC technology changing. They don't want you to have to throw out your whole DAC when a new format/widget comes out, and adding an amp just makes that worse. This is why Bifrost and Gungnir are modular, allowing for future upgrades.

Bee-Tee-Dubs. There is a "Schiit we'd like to see" thread floating around somewhere. Probably a better place for your wish lists.


----------



## Music Alchemist

superjawes said:


> Yeah, Fulla is the exception because it's at such a low price ($79 for DAC+Amp compared to $198).


 
  
 I'm pretty impressed at what the Fulla has accomplished at its price point. Will probably order it on Monday.


----------



## money4me247

superjawes said:


> Yeah, Fulla is the exception because it's at such a low price ($79 for DAC+Amp compared to $198). Otherwise, they don't like having analog circuits "swimming in digital noise". There's also the issue of DAC technology changing. They don't want you to have to throw out your whole DAC when a new format/widget comes out, and adding an amp just makes that worse. This is why Bifrost and Gungnir are modular, allowing for future upgrades.
> 
> Bee-Tee-Dubs. There is a "Schiit we'd like to see" thread floating around somewhere. Probably a better place for your wish lists.


 
 lol i wonder when the next update will come about. prob not next year from jason's post about the products he has planned.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I was excited to see Amazon had shipped my Mjolnir. Then I opened the box and it's a Lyr. THEN I checked the price on Schiit's website.
 So even though my order says Mjolnir Balanced Headphone Amp. And the description is Balanced, Circlotron, etc, etc.
 The price and pic is for a B Stock Lir. Mjolnir has no tubes. Which is fine! It's also why I was wondering why Mjolnir had only RCA jacks on the back, Doh!
  
  I still WANT the Mjolnir. I'll be ordering directly from Shiit next time. Hopefully I can return the Lyr1 they sent me listed as Mjolnir!
 I spent $200 to get Balanced HP cables yesterday already.
 Oh Well.


----------



## StanD

bobfiggins said:


> Actually borrowing a 650 right now thanks to Head-Fi user BIGPOPPA. As good as it sounds, to me it feels a bit thin, and the midrange is sticking out like a sore thumb. I can definitely admit it sounds incredible, but it's not the sound signature I'm looking for.
> 
> The HD700 sounds incredible with some EQ adjustments. One of the reasons I haven't immediately sold it. I would definitely be happy keeping it forever. Though at the same time part of me would like a headphone that sounds good on most setups without having to EQ. For instance if I bring my HD700 to another Head0Fi'ers house, it sounds awfully sibilant and it's annoying.
> 
> Also, I am saving for the EL-8 for sure. HD-800 sounds like something I'd rather try at a meet, rather than purchasing outright to see how it is. Also would take forever to save up for one. I hear it's bright, if not brighter, but has less sibilance issues than the HD700, which sounds really good to me. I don't mind bright at all, in fact I almost prefer it. Just without the sibilance.


 
 The midrange sticking out so much on the 650 might be your perception as you are used to the accentuated treble of the HD700 while the HD650 has slightly muted treble relative to the midrange. You might prefer the HD600's which are a tad more neutral.


----------



## bearFNF

exacoustatowner said:


> I was excited to see Amazon had shipped my Mjolnir. Then I opened the box and it's a Lyr. THEN I checked the price on Schiit's website.
> So even though my order says Mjolnir Balanced Headphone Amp. And the description is Balanced, Circlotron, etc, etc.
> The price and pic is for a B Stock Lir. Mjolnir has no tubes. Which is fine! It's also why I was wondering why Mjolnir had only RCA jacks on the back, Doh!
> 
> ...


 

 If the amazon listing is wrong you might want to send an email with a screen shot of it to Schiit so they can beat on amazon to get it fixed.


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> I was excited to see Amazon had shipped my Mjolnir. Then I opened the box and it's a Lyr. THEN I checked the price on Schiit's website.
> So even though my order says Mjolnir Balanced Headphone Amp. And the description is Balanced, Circlotron, etc, etc.
> The price and pic is for a B Stock Lir. Mjolnir has no tubes. Which is fine! It's also why I was wondering why Mjolnir had only RCA jacks on the back, Doh!
> 
> ...


 
 Call Amazon, they'll make good on the goof up and they'll do it quickly. No reason to not get what you ordered. I guess that Schiit knows their Schiit better.


----------



## David Aldrich

There's a pretty serious error on Amazon right now. Listings for USED Lyr's are miss-labeled as B-Stock Mjolnir sold from various companies, none of which are Schiit.
  
 If it's too good to be true it probably is, $350 for a $550 is usually a mess up somewhere, be careful guys.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

david aldrich said:


> There's a pretty serious error on Amazon right now. Listings for USED Lyr's are miss-labeled as B-Stock Mjolnir sold from various companies, none of which are Schiit.
> 
> If it's too good to be true it probably is, $350 for a $550 is usually a mess up somewhere, be careful guys.


 
 It;s an ERROR. They send a B stock Lyr, I just had a heart to heart talk with them. Meanwhile I have balanced HP cables being shipped-which won't do me ANY good with the Lyr they sent.
 They are fixing it on their end.


----------



## HPiper

I had something happen yesterday that has me a bit worried. When I turned my Lyr off I got a loud pop in my headphones. I know the Lyr has a relay that is supposed to keep that from happening, and I have never heard anything like that before, but it did that time. Has anybody had their drivers damaged while using a Lyr amp. I am considering unplugging them before I turn it on or off but it hasn't done it again.


----------



## cuiter23

hpiper said:


> I had something happen yesterday that has me a bit worried. When I turned my Lyr off I got a loud pop in my headphones. I know the Lyr has a relay that is supposed to keep that from happening, and I have never heard anything like that before, but it did that time. Has anybody had their drivers damaged while using a Lyr amp. I am considering unplugging them before I turn it on or off but it hasn't done it again.


 
  
 Although the Lyr has a muting relay, its always good practice to turn the volume knob down first, then disconnect the headphones, followed lastly by powering down the amp.
  
 The loud pop is more of an annoyance than anything but I've heard stories where the amp did not have a muting relay, the power of an amp such as the Lyr can easily destroy the drivers.


----------



## StanD

Good news according to Schiit, "You can leave them plugged in all the time. Lyr 2 has a muting relay." I suspect that they Lyr 1 has that as well.


----------



## Music Alchemist

What do you guys think about driving a 660 ohm headphone with the Fulla?
  
 Nick from Schiit told me this:
  


> It will drive them but you are getting up to the maximum.
> If you ever think you'll be using orthodynamics you'll want the Magni 2.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> What do you guys think about driving a 660 ohm headphone with the Fulla?
> 
> Nick from Schiit told me this:


 
 It can only deliver 40mW at 300 Ohms. I wouldn't bother trying.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> It can only deliver 40mW at 300 Ohms. I wouldn't bother trying.


 
  
 More details please? Like how much dB I could get? (Then again, it's not even rated at 600 ohms...)
  
 I heard that the DT 880 I'm getting is actually much easier to drive than it appears:
  


> The actual impedance of the 600 Ω version is about 660 Ω, but more importantly, it's almost purely resistive. These are trivially easy to drive so long as you have enough voltage from any real headphone amp.


 
  
 If someone from the company told me that I could drive them with it, I'll be satisfied enough if I can just get enough volume.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> More details please? Like how much dB I could get? (Then again, it's not even rated at 600 ohms...)
> 
> I heard that the DT 880 I'm getting is actually much easier to drive than it appears:
> 
> ...


 
 The spec sheet shows a sensitivity of 96 dB but they fail to mention if that's at 1 mW or at 1V. Assuming it's at 1 mW and the impedance was only 300 Ohms that would mean a peak able to get to 112 dB. I suspect that at 600 Ohms things will much lower. You'll have to do some homework to find out where it's at. Of course there are the power freaks out there that can never be satisfied. In this case, I won't hold out too much hope, especially since I listen a little on the loud side.


----------



## hodgjy

hpiper said:


> I had something happen yesterday that has me a bit worried. When I turned my Lyr off I got a loud pop in my headphones. I know the Lyr has a relay that is supposed to keep that from happening, and I have never heard anything like that before, but it did that time. Has anybody had their drivers damaged while using a Lyr amp. I am considering unplugging them before I turn it on or off but it hasn't done it again.


 
 I've had both the Asgard 1 and 2, and they both had muting relays and still cause the headphones to pop after turn off.  From my understanding, it doesn't harm the headphones.  If the sound doesn't hurt your ears, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> The spec sheet shows a sensitivity of 96 dB but they fail to mention if that's at 1 mW or at 1V. Assuming it's at 1 mW and the impedance was only 300 Ohms that would mean a peak able to get to 112 dB. I suspect that at 600 Ohms things will much lower. You'll have to do some homework to find out where it's at. Of course there are the power freaks out there that can never be satisfied. In this case, I won't hold out too much hope, especially since I listen a little on the loud side.


 
  
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/beyerdynamic/dt-880-600-ohms/with/schiit/fulla
  
 According to that link, the peak would be 109 dB. That's plenty loud!


----------



## hodgjy

music alchemist said:


> http://www.audiobot9000.com/match/beyerdynamic/dt-880-600-ohms/with/schiit/fulla
> 
> According to that link, the peak would be 109 dB. That's plenty loud!


 
 I've driven my DT990/600 ohm off my iPod shuffle.  Plenty of volume.  I'm sure the Fulla is fine.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Good news according to Schiit, "You can leave them plugged in all the time. Lyr 2 has a muting relay." I suspect that they Lyr 1 has that as well.


 
  
 IIRC, the earliest version of the Lyr didn't have the muting relay, but I could be wrong.  If I'm right, I imagine those Lyr's are very much in the minority.


----------



## Music Alchemist

hodgjy said:


> I've driven my DT990/600 ohm off my iPod shuffle.  Plenty of volume.  I'm sure the Fulla is fine.


 
  
 Sweeeet.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> I've driven my DT990/600 ohm off my iPod shuffle.  Plenty of volume.  I'm sure the Fulla is fine.


 
 I wouldn't expect much headroom as high impedance needs a larger voltage swing which the shuffle does not have. I have an iPod Touch 5G that can do a decent but not a great job of driving my HD600's which are only 300 ohms. Listen at moderate or loud volumes and you'll probably have TIMD and probably some clipping on peaks. I'm not a worshiper of wattage but IMO one does need a certain amount.


----------



## money4me247

thurstonx said:


> IIRC, the earliest version of the Lyr didn't have the muting relay, but I could be wrong.  If I'm right, I imagine those Lyr's are very much in the minority.


 
 you are right but schiit recalled those units (or at least told people who had those types of units that they can switch em out), so unlikely you will find one of those still around.
  
 easy to check for the clicking sound of the muting relay.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> I wouldn't expect much headroom as high impedance needs a larger voltage swing which the shuffle does not have. I have an iPod Touch 5G that can do a decent but not a great job of driving my HD600's which are only 300 ohms. Listen at moderate or loud volumes and you'll probably have TIMD and probably some clipping on peaks. I'm not a worshiper of wattage but IMO one does need a certain amount.


 
  
 Well, if I get a stronger amp after the Fulla, I'll let everyone know how they compare with the 880.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Well, if I get a stronger amp after the Fulla, I'll let everyone know how they compare with the 880.


 
 At most you risk $79 and can always amp it's output, oops double amp. Are you looking for a portable solution?


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> At most you risk $79 and can always amp it's output, oops double amp. Are you looking for a portable solution?


 
  
 Nope, don't need portable at all; I just had sold my Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 to fund other gear.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Nope, don't need portable at all; I just had sold my Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 to fund other gear.


 
 Well 600 Ohms might be a difficult nut to crack without punishing your wallet just a little more. I hope things work out well enough.
 Here's some help, he lives in my front yard and can crack a nut or two.


----------



## hodgjy

stand said:


> I wouldn't expect much headroom as high impedance needs a larger voltage swing which the shuffle does not have. I have an iPod Touch 5G that can do a decent but not a great job of driving my HD600's which are only 300 ohms. Listen at moderate or loud volumes and you'll probably have TIMD and probably some clipping on peaks. I'm not a worshiper of wattage but IMO one does need a certain amount.


 
 It's not an ideal solution, but I didn't get any clipping. Granted, my preferred listening levels are around 80 db (measured with SPL meter), so I'm not pushing the gear too hard.  I think anyone with the idea of driving 600 ohm headphones with portable gear already understands it's not optimal and there will be massive trade offs.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> It's not an ideal solution, but I didn't get any clipping. Granted, my preferred listening levels are around 80 db (measured with SPL meter), so I'm not pushing the gear too hard.  I think anyone with the idea of driving 600 ohm headphones with portable gear already understands it's not optimal and there will be massive trade offs.


 
 Absolutely and it's good too temper people's expectations as many will not understand. For much equipment even 300 Ohms has its trade offs. I wonder if the 600 Ohm DT 880 has any sonic advantages over its lower impedance versions?


----------



## dpaton

stand said:


> Absolutely and it's good too temper people's expectations as many will not understand. For much equipment even 300 Ohms has its trade offs. I wonder if the 600 Ohm DT 880 has any sonic advantages over its lower impedance versions?


 
  
 Here is a good thread on that ... http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more


----------



## StanD

dpaton said:


> Here is a good thread on that ... http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more


 
 Thanks. Boy is that a lot to read. Since I'm not in the market for a pair so I skimmed over most of it.


----------



## jexby

stand said:


> Thanks. Boy is that a lot to read. Since I'm not in the market for a pair so I skimmed over most of it.




Sheesh- Then why did you pose the question? on this very thread.


----------



## StanD

jexby said:


> Sheesh- Then why did you pose the question? on this very thread.


 
 I was curious and I did get info from that thread, I was simply unwilling to read the whole thing. What's wrong with that?


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> Absolutely and it's good too temper people's expectations as many will not understand. For much equipment even 300 Ohms has its trade offs. I wonder if the 600 Ohm DT 880 has any sonic advantages over its lower impedance versions?


 
  
 I've read a lot about the differences, and the most common comment I see is that the 600 (or really, 660) ohms version has noticeably better sound quality.


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> Absolutely and it's good too temper people's expectations as many will not understand. For much equipment even 300 Ohms has its trade offs. I wonder if the 600 Ohm DT 880 has any sonic advantages over its lower impedance versions?


 
 can use with OTL tube amps.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> can use with OTL tube amps.


 
  
 Do you (or anyone else, if you want to chime in) happen to know the optimal output power for that headphone?


----------



## Viktor S

New here, but i got some Schiit on my desk. 

 Got a Bifrost Über and a Lyr to power my HE-500. 

 http://i.imgur.com/Rx2K6uE.jpg


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> can use with OTL tube amps.


 
 The right Amp will do great. The Valhalla 2 comes to mind, "450mW RMS per channel."


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Do you (or anyone else, if you want to chime in) happen to know the optimal output power for that headphone?


 
 You might end up being the one telling us.


----------



## Mr Rick

music alchemist said:


> Do you (or anyone else, if you want to chime in) happen to know the optimal output power for that headphone?


 
 My DT 880/600s play well with everything. My Vali, Magni, Valhalla 2, Asgard and Lyr.  I use the DT880s specifically for classical music.


----------



## StanD

mr rick said:


> My DT 880/600s play well with everything. My Vali, Magni, Valhalla 2, Asgard and Lyr.  I use the DT880s specifically for classical music.


 
 I'll bet that the Valhalla 2 really shines on that can. If I had a good 600 Ohm can, I'd add that amp to my Schiit pile.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> You might end up being the one telling us.


 
  
 You've got a point there.
  


mr rick said:


> My DT 880/600s play well with everything. My Vali, Magni, Valhalla 2, Asgard and Lyr.  I use the DT880s specifically for classical music.


 
  
 Do any of those amps sound better with it? Any details are appreciated.
  
 (Also, if you could compare how it sounds with genres other than classical, it would be especially helpful.)
  


stand said:


> I'll bet that the Valhalla 2 really shines on that can. If I had a good 600 Ohm can, I'd add that amp to my Schiit pile.


 
  
 Thanks for the thoughts!
  
 $349 is still somewhat affordable, and at the least, it looks cool. I'm assuming the tubes in that one are of the "colored" variety?


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> $349 is still somewhat affordable, and at the least, it looks cool. I'm assuming the tubes in that one are of the "colored" variety?


 
  
 All Schiit amps (including tubed) are set up pretty neutral and clean in a stock form, as far as FR and THD measurements go.
  
 I think if one's looking for a colored tube amp variety, then something like Bottlehead Crack would be a better choice.


----------



## Music Alchemist

madwolfa said:


> All Schiit amps (including tubed) are set up pretty neutral and clean in a stock form, as far as FR and THD measurements go.
> 
> I think if one's looking for a colored tube amp variety, then something like Bottlehead Crack would be a better choice.


 
  
 Ah, okay. So I guess the only colorations of the tubes would be, perhaps, pleasant harmonic distortion.


----------



## hodgjy

madwolfa said:


> All Schiit amps (including tubed) are set up pretty neutral and clean in a stock form, as far as FR and THD measurements go.
> 
> I think if one's looking for a colored tube amp variety, then something like Bottlehead Crack would be a better choice.


 
 The Woo 3 is the "tubiest" amp I've ever heard.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Ah, okay. So I guess the only colorations of the tubes would be, perhaps, pleasant harmonic distortion.


 
 Should be, but it's not guaranteed so look out. A tube amp can also be unpleasant. I prefer no distortion.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> Should be, but it's not guaranteed so look out. A tube amp can also be unpleasant. I prefer no distortion.


 
  
 So your reason for saying this...
  


stand said:


> I'll bet that the Valhalla 2 really shines on that can. If I had a good 600 Ohm can, I'd add that amp to my Schiit pile.


 
  
 ...is purely because of its output power at 600 ohms?


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> Ah, okay. So I guess the only colorations of the tubes would be, perhaps, pleasant harmonic distortion.


 
  
 Not in Schiit's case. All their tube amps measure very low on distortion, so you would be hard pressed to hear any difference between that and any of their solid-state offerings. As far as distortion goes, anyway.. pleasant or not.


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> So your reason for saying this...
> ...is purely because of its output power at 600 ohms?


 
  
 Yes, typically tube amps play much better with high impedance loads because they can put out more voltage (which deals with impedance) much easier.


----------



## Music Alchemist

madwolfa said:


> Not in Schiit's case. All their tube amps measure very low on distortion, so you would be hard pressed to hear any difference between that and any of their solid-state offerings. As far as distortion goes, anyway.. pleasant or not.


 
  
 I see. I just thought even-order harmonic distortion was separate from THD.
  


madwolfa said:


> Yes, typically tube amps play much better with high impedance loads because they can put out more voltage (which deals with impedance) much easier.


 
  
 Good to know!


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> I see. I just thought even-order harmonic distortion was separate from THD.


 
  
 No, it's part of it.
  
 "The *total* harmonic distortion, or *THD*, of a signal is a measurement of the harmonic distortion present and is defined as the ratio of the sum of the powers of all harmonic components to the power of the fundamental frequency".
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_harmonic_distortion


----------



## David Aldrich

music alchemist said:


> I see. I just thought even-order harmonic distortion was separate from THD.
> 
> 
> Good to know!


 

 THD is a measure of ALL harmonic distortion.


----------



## Music Alchemist

madwolfa said:


> No, it's part of it.
> 
> "The *total* harmonic distortion, or *THD*, of a signal is a measurement of the harmonic distortion present and is defined as the ratio of the sum of the powers of all harmonic components to the power of the fundamental frequency".
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_harmonic_distortion


 


david aldrich said:


> THD is a measure of ALL harmonic distortion.


 
  
 Okay, so I can look at the THD specs for an amp and just from that determine whether it will have that "tubey" sound? (Or would it not tell me anything about the even-order distortion?) If so, that's convenient, to an extent. If it does have the "tubey" sound, then I would have to get into tube rolling to tweak it. lol


----------



## David Aldrich

I've always been of the mind that trying to gauge how anything will sound to you purely based of specifications is a fools errand. 
  
 Conversations on the topics, while offering some sound information, also tend to get wildly into very subjective, presumptive discussion about what you will or won't hear.
  
 One thing that the audiophile community is really lacking is accessibility of auditioning. If you can't find a meet the next best solution is to buy and return, costing yourself shipping and restocking fees and costing the company shipping and B-stock or clearance losses.


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> Okay, so I can look at the THD specs for an amp and just from that determine whether it will have that "tubey" sound? (Or would it not tell me anything about the even-order distortion?) If so, that's convenient, to an extent. If it does have the "tubey" sound, then I would have to get into tube rolling to tweak it. lol


 
  
 This is where the subjectivists clash with objectivists usually... Objectivists claim (according to scientific research), that the minimum detectable level of THD is >1%, for an average human. Subjectivists mostly disregard the studies/measurements and specifications, claiming that what you _hear_ (or _think_ you hear) is what matters ultimately.


----------



## Billheiser

music alchemist said:


> Okay, so I can look at the THD specs for an amp and just from that determine whether it will have that "tubey" sound? (Or would it not tell me anything about the even-order distortion?) If so, that's convenient, to an extent. If it does have the "tubey" sound, then I would have to get into tube rolling to tweak it. lol



No, to your first question. But IF after reporting THD, there is another report or graph showing the spectra of distortion products at each of the various harmonics, then that would give you an indication of the "tubiness" of the sound. 
But it will still not tell you everything, and auditioning personally will help (when and where possible).


----------



## StanD

billheiser said:


> No, to your first question. But IF after reporting THD, there is another report or graph showing the *spectra of distortion products at each of the various harmonics*, then that would give you an indication of the "tubiness" of the sound.
> But it will still not tell you everything, and auditioning personally will help (when and where possible).


 
 Are you trying to account for the distortion of the distortion?


----------



## money4me247

madwolfa said:


> This is where the subjectivists clash with objectivists usually... Objectivists claim (according to scientific research), that the minimum detectable level of THD is >1%, for an average human. Subjectivists mostly disregard the studies/measurements and specifications, claiming that what you _hear_ (or _think_ you hear) is what matters ultimately.


 
  
 What you personally hear is the most important thing for you personally & I agree that is the most important factor. 
  
 however, what different people hear wildly varies, so giving advice on personal experiences is really just opinions & may not be applicable for people. the problem with some subjectivists is that they do not recognize what they personally hear may not be heard by others & that their claims made based solely on personal listening experience is simply one opinion out of a wide field of possible experiences.
  
 the thing is that for us to talk intelligently about something, there needs to be some sort of common ground.
  
 objective replicable measurements is one way to unite diverging experiences. however, measurements are not the end all of everything. they are simply a data point to illustrate a phenomenon. how accurate that describing the phenomenon the measurement is depends on a variety of factors especially how the measurement was done. there is a wide range of different data points that can be measured, just like there is a wide range of opinions. also, another thing to consider is that some measurable data is not actually audible by the human ear.
  
 another way to unite experiences is finding shared common subjective experiences on the same components/gear.
  
 there is really no wide chasmic disconnect between subjectivism and objectivism if you are keeping the above in mind along with a friendly non-confrontational manner when discussing the subject.


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> Are you trying to account for the distortion of the distortion?



No, just trying to say that the amount of distortion at each of the various harmonics can give an indication of the sound in a way that a THD specification can't.
Edit: I still need to say it better -- The level of harmonics produced by the amp, at each of the various harmonics, gives a profile which can provide more information (than a THD spec) on possible "tubiness" of sound.


----------



## raybone0566

david aldrich said:


> I've always been of the mind that trying to gauge how anything will sound to you purely based of specifications is a fools errand.
> 
> Conversations on the topics, while offering some sound information, also tend to get wildly into very subjective, presumptive discussion about what you will or won't hear.
> 
> One thing that the audiophile community is really lacking is accessibility of auditioning. If you can't find a meet the next best solution is to buy and return, costing yourself shipping and restocking fees and costing the company shipping and B-stock or clearance losses.


 +1, I think impression threads have helped me in deciding on gear. All I have is best buy and they don't offer much to audition from. They just usually stock beats, Bose, etc. So the buy, and return method is really the only alternative.


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> No, just trying to say that the amount of distortion at each of the various harmonics can give an indication of the sound in a way that a THD specification can't.


 
  
 If X + Y = Z, where Z → 0, does it really matter what X or Y are individually?


----------



## Music Alchemist

@StanD
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
  
 (Forgot about that link.)


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> @StanD
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones
> 
> (Forgot about that link.)


 
 Yeah, I forgot about reading that in the past. You heard him, get a good desktop amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 By the way, damping factor is not important for a Planar Magnetic and not as important for a Dynamic with a flat impedance curve and good mechanical damping.


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> If X + Y = Z, where Z → 0, does it really matter what X or Y are individually?



Yes, in this case. Because it is known that even-order distortion is less unpleasant to listeners than odd-order ones. 
So if could (hypothetically) dial down my 3rd harmonic distortion, and compensate by increasing my 2nd order distortion by an amount that would give me the same THD measurement, then I might be happier with the sound.


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> Yes, in this case. Because it is known that even-order distortion is less unpleasant to listeners than odd-order ones.
> So if could (hypothetically) dial down my 3rd harmonic distortion, and compensate by increasing my 2nd order distortion by an amount that would give me the same THD measurement, then I might be happier with the sound.


 
  
 That's true, however, the sum of the harmonics (even or odd) would still have to be higher than 1% to be heard, otherwise it's a moot. 
 And then indeed, in the extreme case, 2% THD comprising of 1.5% even and 0.5% odd harmonics would be better, than the other way around...
 You'd be hard pressed to find such a bad amp in reality, though (or have I just described the majority of tube speaker amps?).


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> That's true, however, the sum of the harmonics (even or odd) would still have to be higher than 1% to be heard, otherwise it's a moot.
> And then indeed, in the extreme case, 2% THD comprising of 1.5% even and 0.5% odd harmonics would be better, than the other way around...
> You'd be hard pressed to find such a bad amp in reality, though (or have I just described the majority of tube speaker amps?).



Agreed. And yet, without disagreeing, I can still wonder why I prefer tubed or hybrid amps to their SS competitors at the equivalent price ranges. 
My experience is limited to a fairly small number of direct comparisons over time, so it's not definitive and especially not to anyone beyond myself.


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> Agreed. And yet, without disagreeing, I can still wonder why I prefer tubed or hybrid amps to their SS competitors at the equivalent price ranges.
> My experience is limited to a fairly small number of direct comparisons over time, so it's not definitive and especially not to anyone beyond myself.


 
  
 I think it goes into the range of psychoacoustics. The music listening is a complex _experience _(actual audio being just part of it), and should be treated as such...


----------



## hodgjy

For me, the one thing I cannot wrap my head around is why tubes sound more holographic than solid state (to me).  I understand the whole distortion argument, and my Trafomatic tube amp is clean, solid state sounding.  But, over the years I've had a few other tube amps, some sound warm and some sound cold (all part of the circuit design), but they sounded more 3D and holographic than my similarly priced solid state amps.


----------



## Music Alchemist

hodgjy said:


> For me, the one thing I cannot wrap my head around is why tubes sound more holographic than solid state (to me).  I understand the whole distortion argument, and my Trafomatic tube amp is clean, solid state sounding.  But, over the years I've had a few other tube amps, some sound warm and some sound cold (all part of the circuit design), but they sounded more 3D and holographic than my similarly priced solid state amps.


 
  
 What confuses me is something more elementary: the objectivists (as well as Schiit Audio themselves) say that at a given SPL (or loudness level or whatever you want to call it), a less powerful and more powerful amp will output the same power into the headphones...yet others say that amplification is about increasing sound quality at the same volume level.


----------



## Music Alchemist

My Fulla shipped less than three hours after ordering it! Yay. ^_^


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> What confuses me is something more elementary: the objectivists (as well as Schiit Audio themselves) say that at a given SPL (or loudness level or whatever you want to call it), a less powerful and more powerful amp will output the same power into the headphones...yet others say that amplification is about increasing sound quality at the same volume level.


 
  
 Amplification is about providing sufficient gain (voltage) and current to reach the desired volume level, while keeping distortion under control (within spec). Proper amplifier would also have some power headroom (voltage swing/current capacity) for occasional peaks in highly dynamic recordings. Of course voltage and current requirements vary depending on the load type (impedance, etc).
  
 Objectivists state that if the above parameters are met for two different amplifiers, there shouldn't be any perceptible difference between them. Subjectivists strongly disagree.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> What confuses me is something more elementary: the objectivists (as well as Schiit Audio themselves) say that at a given SPL (or loudness level or whatever you want to call it), a less powerful and more powerful amp will output the same power into the headphones...yet others say that amplification is about increasing sound quality at the same volume level.


 
 Don't forget to factor in overactive imaginations and bias due to the chanting heard on forums.


----------



## madwolfa

Anyhow, I strongly suggest visiting Sound Science subforum to get little further on this...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/133/sound-science
  
 Tons of great information.
  
 Subjectivist vs objectivist debate is not well tolerated in more general sections of Head-Fi (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


----------



## Music Alchemist

madwolfa said:


> Amplification is about providing sufficient gain (voltage) and current to reach the desired volume level, while keeping distortion under control (within spec). Proper amplifier would also have some power headroom (voltage swing/current capacity) for occasional peaks in highly dynamic recordings. Of course voltage and current requirements vary depending on the load type (impedance, etc).
> 
> Objectivists state that if the above parameters are met for two different amplifiers, there shouldn't be any perceptible difference between them. Subjectivists strongly disagree.


 
  
 Could you give a more simplified explanation pertaining to when a headphone needs an amp, even when there is enough volume?
  
 Ironically, it seems that my V-MODA Crossfade LP needs an amp. Directly out of my laptop's headphone jacks, there's a ton of volume, but the sound totally falls apart. Back when I listened to it on a Magni 2 Uber, it sounded much better.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Could you give a more simplified explanation pertaining to when a headphone needs an amp, even when there is enough volume?
> 
> Ironically, it seems that my V-MODA Crossfade LP needs an amp. Directly out of my laptop's headphone jacks, there's a ton of volume, but the sound totally falls apart. Back when I listened to it on a Magni 2 Uber, it sounded much better.


 
 Falls apart meaning? Clipping, THD, IMD, TIMD?


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> Falls apart meaning? Clipping, THD, IMD, TIMD?


 
  
 The biggest difference is that the bass is much more boomy and out of control. I distinctly remember that everything sounded more clear and in control with the amp. The upper treble was also much more clear with the amp.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> The biggest difference is that the bass is much more boomy and out of control. I distinctly remember that everything sounded more clear and in control with the amp.


 
 You should get an A/B switch to compare. Usually bass gets flabby if the output impedance of an amp is not low enough to provide proper damping. Some Laptops have an OK amp and others have cr@p, same thing for motherboards.
 Some headphones really need an Amp with a low output impedance to control their inertia, damping is the game.


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> What confuses me is something more elementary: the objectivists (as well as Schiit Audio themselves) say that at a given SPL (or loudness level or whatever you want to call it), a less powerful and more powerful amp will output the same power into the headphones...yet others say that amplification is about increasing sound quality at the same volume level.


 
  
 Madwolfa has a much better response but my anology would be:
  
 Objective:  Reach and maintain hghway speed carrying 2 occupants & 100 lbs of luggage.
  
 Now, a Mustang and a Smart Car can both meet those specifications but the "experience" is going to be completely different in terms of ability to accelerate, switch lanes etc. etc.


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> Madwolfa has a much better response but my anology would be:
> 
> Objective:  Reach and maintain hghway speed carrying 2 occupants & 100 lbs of luggage.
> 
> Now, a Mustang and a Smart Car can both meet those specifications but the "experience" is going to be completely different in terms of ability to accelerate, switch lanes etc. etc.


 
 I don't know, I had a Mustang GT with a 5.0  V8 and 5 speed stick. The suspension was stiff and not too comfortable and they way I drove it would probably result in a terrifying experience for anyone foolish enough to be a passenger. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gee I miss that car.


----------



## bretemm

Has anyone used the RHA t10i or shure se846 with Schiit? I'm stuck with only using earbuds and I'm thinking about getting the RHA T10i first (since they cost allot less) then latter on get the Shure se846.


----------



## jexby

At RMAF t10i sounded bass heavy. Even without the bass filters.
Just don't go in expecting neutral or balanced IMHO.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well I'm looking for some headphone quality earbuds (because I can't have strong magnets by my head) and insted of the se846 right now because of cost, would the t10i be ok for classic rock and indie rock music? 
Thanks! 





jexby said:


> At RMAF t10i sounded bass heavy. Even without the bass filters.
> Just don't go in expecting neutral or balanced IMHO.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, well I'm looking for some headphone quality earbuds (because I can't have strong magnets by my head) and insted of the se846 right now because of cost, would the t10i be ok for classic rock and indie rock music?
> Thanks!


 
 Why can't you have magnets by your head? The ones in IEMs have got to be small.


----------



## bretemm

I have a medical device in my head that's magnet sensitive 


stand said:


> Why can't you have magnets by your head? The ones in IEMs have got to be small.


----------



## StanD

Quot 





bretemm said:


> I have a medical device in my head that's magnet sensitive


 
 Ah, one of those drains. I have a friend with such a device, saved his life. He doesn't listen to music, unfortunate for his pleasures, so he doesn't have IEM or headphone issues.
 Maybe, albeit expensive, electrostatic headphones are best for you. Unfortunately Planar Magnetic cans are definitely not for you, man do they sound great. Maybe you're best off with loudspeakers.


----------



## bearFNF

Electrostatic fields bear some similarity to magnetic fields. The lines of electrostatic flux in the vicinity of a pair of oppositely charged objects are similar to lines of magnetic flux between and around a pair of opposite magnetic poles. Electrostatic fields are, however, blocked by metallic objects, while magnetic fields can pass through most (but not all) metals.
The field would look similar to "B" in this picture but with a diaphragm in between the plates:


I would check with your doctor before using anything to make sure.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 





bearfnf said:


> Electrostatic fields bear some similarity to magnetic fields. The lines of electrostatic flux in the vicinity of a pair of oppositely charged objects are similar to lines of magnetic flux between and around a pair of opposite magnetic poles. Electrostatic fields are, however, blocked by metallic objects, while magnetic fields can pass through most (but not all) metals.
> The field would look similar to "B" in this picture but with a diaphragm in between the plates:
> 
> 
> I would check with your doctor before using anything to make sure.


----------



## bretemm

Yea I'm limited to just earbuds, 
As long as any magnets are little and not strong like a "little earth magnet" I'm fine,
I hope the se846 are the best for quality 





stand said:


> Ah, one of those drains. I have a friend with such a device, saved his life. He doesn't listen to music, unfortunate for his pleasures, so he doesn't have IEM or headphone issues.
> Maybe, albeit expensive, electrostatic headphones are best for you. Unfortunately Planar Magnetic cans are definitely not for you, man do they sound great. Maybe you're best off with loudspeakers.


----------



## jexby

Anyone besides Jason and Mike know if
  "Siegfried, Erda and Loge"
 are code names of actual humans or just a reference to the opera?
 (used for golden ears listening tests?)
  
 those 3 names get credited on the Wyrd PCB, and Uber analog board.
  
 ya know, just wonderin'.


----------



## Baldr

All the above!!


----------



## StanD

baldr said:


> All the above!!


 
 A short answer. Where did you pick that up from, Nick?


----------



## David Aldrich

Nah.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

bretemm said:


> Yea I'm limited to just earbuds,
> As long as any magnets are little and not strong like a "little earth magnet" I'm fine,
> I hope the se846 are the best for quality


 
 Bretemm
 Electrostatics were mentioned-I don't believe they HAVE magnets in them. And they can be amongst the best full sized HP!


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, do you know of weather or not there's static electric earbuds? 
Thanks 





exacoustatowner said:


> Bretemm
> Electrostatics were mentioned-I don't believe they HAVE magnets in them. And they can be amongst the best full sized HP!


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok great, do you know of weather or not there's static electric earbuds?
> Thanks


 
 Never heard of electrostatic IEMs/Buds. The cans are a bit pricey and require special amps. But there are no magnets and they sound real good.


----------



## money4me247

the jaw conducting headphones may not use any magnets though i cannot comment on their sound quality as i never tried those.


----------



## bearFNF

bretemm said:


> Ok great, do you know of weather or not there's static electric earbuds?
> Thanks



Stax SR-002 and SR-003 are both electrostatic "In-the-Earspeakers." They can be used with or without a headband.


----------



## lonewolfe2015

blackenedplague said:


> maybe we need a thread dedicated to the fresh fish that can be saved from the fisherman


 
  
 Any chance you guys would help a fresh fish like indicated? I've been researching for the better part of a couple weeks now on making my first big purchase outside the cheap sub-$100 headphones. Really the most expensive purchase I've made to date was my pair of polk Tsi100 bookshelf and a $30 amp mounted under my desk from Lepai that's a little underpowered but does the trick.
  
 I haven't yet decided upon my first real pair of headphones, looking at the usual culprits like the Sennheiser 650's or an equivalent Beyerdynamic. But I'm also not yet sure if I want the open design or a closed design, I've never heard the difference. I do only intend on using these at my home office desk so there's no concerns there whichever direction I go.
  
 I've settled on Schiit products for my amp and DAC but I really don't know what I need nor do I really want to start at the bottom and end up spending extra to get what I ultimately like.
  
 Most of my listening comes from my laptop or my TV via a cheap toslink to 3.5 converter. I mostly stream my music which I know isn't going to be the best quality, but I have to start somewhere and upgrading my audio collection isn't really the first option. My primary music types are anything electronic, sometimes I like to get a good bass response but other times I like to switch over to something more instrumental and the bass isn't needed.
  
 Any suggestions based on what I said above would be most welcome.


----------



## BeatsWork

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Any chance you guys would help a fresh fish like indicated? I've been researching for the better part of a couple weeks now on making my first big purchase outside the cheap sub-$100 headphones. Really the most expensive purchase I've made to date was my pair of polk Tsi100 bookshelf and a $30 amp mounted under my desk from Lepai that's a little underpowered but does the trick.
> 
> I haven't yet decided upon my first real pair of headphones, looking at the usual culprits like the Sennheiser 650's or an equivalent Beyerdynamic. But I'm also not yet sure if I want the open design or a closed design, I've never heard the difference. I do only intend on using these at my home office desk so there's no concerns there whichever direction I go.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Take a look at the thread "HE-500 proving to be an enjoyable listening experience".  Highly modabble, scale well from entry-level to uber expensive gear, devoted user base, haven't found a genre yet that wasn't enjoyable with these cans (Ok maybe Opera, Mariachi, Country - but that's not the cans fault 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/551345/hifiman-he-500-he-as-in-high-end-proving-to-be-an-enjoyable-experience-in-listening/15825#post_11421946


----------



## raybone0566

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Any chance you guys would help a fresh fish like indicated? I've been researching for the better part of a couple weeks now on making my first big purchase outside the cheap sub-$100 headphones. Really the most expensive purchase I've made to date was my pair of polk Tsi100 bookshelf and a $30 amp mounted under my desk from Lepai that's a little underpowered but does the trick.
> 
> I haven't yet decided upon my first real pair of headphones, looking at the usual culprits like the Sennheiser 650's or an equivalent Beyerdynamic. But I'm also not yet sure if I want the open design or a closed design, I've never heard the difference. I do only intend on using these at my home office desk so there's no concerns there whichever direction I go.
> 
> ...


First first set-up was a schiit modi/vali combo with pyst USB cable. Cost me $250.00. Totally transformed my laptop. Currently running the asgard2 with the hd650's and it's fantastic. Enjoy your journey.


----------



## Music Alchemist

bretemm said:


> Ok great, do you know of weather or not there's static electric earbuds?
> Thanks


 


bearfnf said:


> Stax SR-002 and SR-003 are both electrostatic "In-the-Earspeakers." They can be used with or without a headband.


 
  
 Yep! Relevant links:
  
 https://www.staxusa.com/earspeaker/
 https://www.staxusa.com/driver/
 https://www.staxusa.com/system/
 https://www.staxusa.com/Technology.html
 http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/stax/electrostatic.htm
 http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1184&category=10
 http://www.pricejapan.com/front/e_good_info.php?code=1290&category=10


----------



## lonewolfe2015

raybone0566 said:


> First first set-up was a schiit modi/vali combo with pyst USB cable. Cost me $250.00. Totally transformed my laptop. Currently running the asgard2 with the hd650's and it's fantastic. Enjoy your journey.


 

 Are you using the Asgard by itself? Would you recommend skipping the lower end Vali and jumping straight up to the Asgard?
  
 Unfortunately there's no local stores I've found to get some first hand experience so I'm flying blind here besides reading everything I stumble upon on the internet (mostly head-fi).


beatswork said:


> Take a look at the thread "HE-500 proving to be an enjoyable listening experience".  Highly modabble, scale well from entry-level to uber expensive gear, devoted user base, haven't found a genre yet that wasn't enjoyable with these cans (Ok maybe Opera, Mariachi, Country - but that's not the cans fault
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the HE-500/560's would be a bit too high end, but everything in that thread has been quite interesting to read about them and they sound excellent. There's some really expensive set-ups in that thread to drive those things too. When you said that they "scale well", were you referring to the cheaper variants like the 400's which would be closer to my price range since I need other equipment too?


----------



## raybone0566

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Are you using the Asgard by itself? Would you recommend skipping the lower end Vali and jumping straight up to the Asgard?
> 
> Unfortunately there's no local stores I've found to get some first hand experience so I'm flying blind here besides reading everything I stumble upon on the internet (mostly head-fi).
> 
> I think the HE-500/560's would be a bit too high end, but everything in that thread has been quite interesting to read about them and they sound excellent. There's some really expensive set-ups in that thread to drive those things too. When you said that they "scale well", were you referring to the cheaper variants like the 400's which would be closer to my price range since I need other equipment too?


 I have both the vali & asgard2 and I go back & forth. Headphones I use are hifiman he-400 & 500, fidelio x-2, and the hd-650's. They are both fantastic amps. I think the asgard2 hits a bit harder in the low end. But the he-500's & 650's sing with both amps. Either one is a good choice imo.


----------



## reddog

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Are you using the Asgard by itself? Would you recommend skipping the lower end Vali and jumping straight up to the Asgard?
> 
> Unfortunately there's no local stores I've found to get some first hand experience so I'm flying blind here besides reading everything I stumble upon on the internet (mostly head-fi).
> 
> I think the HE-500/560's would be a bit too high end, but everything in that thread has been quite interesting to read about them and they sound excellent. There's some really expensive set-ups in that thread to drive those things too. When you said that they "scale well", were you referring to the cheaper variants like the 400's which would be closer to my price range since I need other equipment too?


I highly recommend the HE-400i, for the money it's one great sounding headphone. And to drive that chromed, sexy beast of a headphone, I would get the Asgard 2. I find the A2 to be a very nice SS amp, with lots of power to drive my Alpha Prime's and Dt 880 cans.


----------



## jexby

reddog said:


> I highly recommend the HE-400i, for the money it's one great sounding headphone. And to drive that chromed, sexy beast of a headphone, I would get the Asgard 2. I find the A2 to be a very nice SS amp, with lots of power to drive my Alpha Prime's and Dt 880 cans.


 
  
  
 and a typical follow on:
  
 (on a budget) another option is finding a used Lyr 2, also stellar with HE-400i.


----------



## reddog

jexby said:


> and a typical follow on:
> 
> (on a budget) another option is finding a used Lyr 2, also stellar with HE-400i.



+1 the lyr2 is fantastic, I use mine, a lot, especially with my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes.


----------



## BeatsWork

lonewolfe2015 said:


> I think the HE-500/560's would be a bit too high end, but everything in that thread has been quite interesting to read about them and they sound excellent. There's some really expensive set-ups in that thread to drive those things too. When you said that they "scale well", were you referring to the cheaper variants like the 400's which would be closer to my price range since I need other equipment too?


 
  
 By scale well I meant that the HE-500's sound great on fairly humble gear and sound amazing with higher end gear so could be with you for the long run.


----------



## raybone0566

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Are you using the Asgard by itself? Would you recommend skipping the lower end Vali and jumping straight up to the Asgard?
> 
> Unfortunately there's no local stores I've found to get some first hand experience so I'm flying blind here besides reading everything I stumble upon on the internet (mostly head-fi).
> 
> I think the HE-500/560's would be a bit too high end, but everything in that thread has been quite interesting to read about them and they sound excellent. There's some really expensive set-ups in that thread to drive those things too. When you said that they "scale well", were you referring to the cheaper variants like the 400's which would be closer to my price range since I need other equipment too?


 Actually the he-500 can be had at the same price as the 400i. Amazon has them from audio advisor for $499.00. Same as the 400i. Just sayin'


----------



## raybone0566

raybone0566 said:


> Actually the he-500 can be had at the same price as the 400i. Amazon has them from audio advisor for $499.00. Same as the 400i. Just sayin'


 They only have used at that price now.


----------



## lonewolfe2015

raybone0566 said:


> Actually the he-500 can be had at the same price as the 400i. Amazon has them from audio advisor for $499.00. Same as the 400i. Just sayin'


 

 I usually skip over a lot of used products depending what it is, are you suggesting that buying used headphones from there aren't such a bad idea? Probably a rookie question, but it's obvious I'm still learning.
  
 ----------------------
  
 Thanks for all the great recommendations everyone, I'll take a look at what I can do and read more on all of what was suggested.
  
 I'm curious, since the Lyr was mentioned, do the tube amps and their warmer sound combine well with electronic music (EDM, House, Dub, etc)? Also, I'm assuming I should get either the Modi 2 or the Bifrost to clean up the sound?


----------



## raybone0566

lonewolfe2015 said:


> I usually skip over a lot of used products depending what it is, are you suggesting that buying used headphones from there aren't such a bad idea? Probably a rookie question, but it's obvious I'm still learning.
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> ...


 I've bought used before. Amazon has a real good return policy. But audio advisor had them new a few weeks back for that price. I should have checked first before I made that post.


----------



## jexby

need a Modi 2 Uber to hold me over for awhile.
 it shipped out and have a tracking number 84 minutes after I paid!
  





 (insert non-original schitty pun here!)


----------



## money4me247

at the fresh fishy dude,

go open always unless you need noise isolation or portability as a rule of thumb.

+2 on the he-400i recommendation. for the he500 vs he400i, really just depends on ur sound sig preferences but if u r just new to the headphone world u may not have any yet, so i think the he400i makes more sense due to vastly improved comfort.

other personal favorites from me in terms of sound:dollar performance, the $200 akg k7xx on massdrop is an extremely good value if you are lookin for that natural sound sig (a bit of bass boost above a neutral measurement of the frequency response curve)


----------



## reddog

raybone0566 said:


> Actually the he-500 can be had at the same price as the 400i. Amazon has them from audio advisor for $499.00. Same as the 400i. Just sayin'


Thanks for the heads up, that be a good price for them.


----------



## ThurstonX

jexby said:


> need a Modi 2 Uber to hold me over for awhile.
> it shipped out and have a tracking number 84 minutes after I paid!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That was fast as *schiit!*


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> That was fast as *schiit!*


 
 Someone having a hurry call?


----------



## rovopio

thurstonx said:


> That was fast as *schiit!*


 
  
  


stand said:


> Someone having a hurry call?


 
  
  


jexby said:


> need a Modi 2 Uber to hold me over for awhile.
> it shipped out and have a tracking number 84 minutes after I paid!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 i know! my order back then also shipped ~2 hours after I paid. Which is doubly impressive because I'm in Asia, the part of Asia where Schiit wrote in their posts as having more fraud than legitimate purchase.
  
 i was like "whaatt, it shipped? cool cool"


----------



## money4me247

lonewolfe2015 said:


> I usually skip over a lot of used products depending what it is, are you suggesting that buying used headphones from there aren't such a bad idea? Probably a rookie question, but it's obvious I'm still learning.
> ----------------------
> I'm curious, since the Lyr was mentioned, do the tube amps and their warmer sound combine well with electronic music (EDM, House, Dub, etc)? Also, I'm assuming I should get either the Modi 2 or the Bifrost to clean up the sound?




used headphones from enthusiasts tend to be kept in good condition & there is an very active market of traders/sellers here. individual experiences w different sellers may vary.

for discontinued headphones, many ppl are still fans & rly like their particular sound, so u still get recommended stuff u can no longer get from the original manufacturer. mmm me personally i tend to go for newer models unless i had a chance to try out the older version.

if u r just getting into headphones, i recommend spending the majority of ur budget into headphones & just sticking w an entry level m&m stack. the headphones u pick will have a greater impact of the bass quantity & quality than trying to add warmth via tubes.


----------



## rovopio

Quote:


money4me247 said:


> used headphones from enthusiasts tend to be kept in good condition & there is an very active market of traders/sellers here. individual experiences w different sellers may vary.
> 
> for discontinued headphones, many ppl are still fans & rly like their particular sound, so u still get recommended stuff u can no longer get from the original manufacturer. mmm me personally i tend to go for newer models unless i had a chance to try out the older version.
> 
> if u r just getting into headphones, i recommend spending the majority of ur budget into headphones & just sticking w an entry level m&m stack. the headphones u pick will have a greater impact of the bass quantity & quality than trying to add warmth via tubes.


 
  
 i have to +1 this. Yeah there's a big difference on buying used headphone from head-fi or from ebay (or craigslist). The one on head-fi varies in condition. Check out the head-fi sale forum now, there's a person who sell their headphone there now, where they bought that headphone just for the purpose of doing comparison. And now they're selling them. And that situation is not uncommon either.
  
 If you're a little more wary about pets feathers or cigarette smells, some people also list smoke-free or pet-free on their sale posts.
 i would've buy most of my headphone used if it's not for insistence of import tax counted as new, even for second-hand items.


----------



## theblueprint

I bought most of my gear used off eBay. I would say that I have been quite lucky given the great condition (like new) of the items I purchased. More than likely, the stuff that goes on auction are from audiophiles who decided to upgrade. I try to make conversation with them, asking what their current set up is now, why they upgraded, what direction they're going with their sound... etc. You can really tell who's really passionate about their gear and the condition of the stuff they put up for sale reflects that.


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> i know! my order back then also shipped ~2 hours after I paid. Which is doubly impressive because I'm in Asia, the part of Asia where Schiit wrote in their posts as having more fraud than legitimate purchase.
> 
> i was like "whaatt, it shipped? cool cool"


 
 Obviously you can be trusted.


----------



## bretemm

I have the Magi and Modi and I have a Marantz with 2 HDMI outputs, 

What could I get to connect my marantz to (like blueray?) that I could use to then connect my Schiit to? 

Has anyone done that? So it would be 

Marantz second HDMI out- to a blueray type player - that had a optical audio out? 

Thanks!


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> I have the Magi and Modi and I have a Marantz with 2 HDMI outputs,
> 
> What could I get to connect my marantz to (like blueray?) that I could use to then connect my Schiit to?
> 
> ...


 
 I think you have to get your connections figures out. A Blueray player optical output cannot connect to a Matantz HDMI out.
 I forget but if your Modi is a 2 Uber or 1 Optical, you can connect the Blueray to it. It sounds like you have to figure out a good switching scheme for all your doodads. Which model is the Marantz and the Modi?


----------



## davidflas

My second piece of Schiit has arrived! It sounds great right out of the box with stock tubes, can't wait to do some tube rolling after I get used its sound. I love this Valhalla 2, and I wish I could attach a picture from flickr, but I don't know how to do it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Loving the Sony MDR-7506 out of the Fulla! (Got both today.)
  
 Now I just need to "EQ out" the peaks in the headphone's frequency response.


----------



## Exidrion

Man, my Ragnarok can't come soon enough...I feel like the LCD 3's might not be reaching their full potential right now with the M-stage I'm currently using. Place my order the 24th...one more week to go apparently. Then the week long ship here. sigh.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Can't wait for the Yggdrasil to come out soon, just to read the product description and FAQ. At this point, I'm just looking forward to the comedy that Schiit provides.


----------



## hodgjy

Whenever I get the upgradeitis bug for my DAC, my Bifrost Uber comes through and convinces me not to.  I've been listening to several classical music tracks lately, and the Bifrost has such control and precision over them it's almost as if I'm in the concert hall.  The imaging and instrument placement is very lifelike.


----------



## Tuco1965

Count me as another happy Bifrost user.  I use it in both my headphone and speaker setups.  Very very impressed.


----------



## Music Alchemist

In the meantime, I'm planning on using the Fulla as the DAC for whatever other amps I get this year, unless my budget expands to allow a more expensive DAC. I also plan on comparing to my computer's built-in DAC, ie with and without the Fulla. But I still may need to get another device to make it a proper comparison.


----------



## Pirakaphile

hodgjy said:


> Whenever I get the upgradeitis bug for my DAC, my Bifrost Uber comes through and convinces me not to.  I've been listening to several classical music tracks lately, and the Bifrost has such control and precision over them it's almost as if I'm in the concert hall.  The imaging and instrument placement is very lifelike.


 
 Did you upgrade to the uber, or get it that way from the start? I'm planning on getting the Bifrost in a couple of years, but I was only going to get the usb gen2 with it.


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> In the meantime, I'm planning on using the Fulla as the DAC for whatever other amps I get this year, unless my budget expands to allow a more expensive DAC. I also plan on comparing to my computer's built-in DAC, ie with and without the Fulla. But I still may need to get another device to make it a proper comparison.


 
 Hopefully you'll be able to expand the budget with those CD's as you sell em, and then go for something absurdly expensive.


----------



## hodgjy

pirakaphile said:


> Did you upgrade to the uber, or get it that way from the start? I'm planning on getting the Bifrost in a couple of years, but I was only going to get the usb gen2 with it.


 
 I bought it new with the uber already installed.  I've never heard the non-uber version.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> Whenever I get the upgradeitis bug for my DAC, my Bifrost Uber comes through and convinces me not to.  I've been listening to several classical music tracks lately, and the Bifrost has such control and precision over them it's almost as if I'm in the concert hall.  The imaging and instrument placement is very lifelike.


 
 I don't think one can find a DAC that actually sounds any better than a Bifrost Uber. That new Modi 2 Uber is nothing to sneeze at either. I've got both.


----------



## Pirakaphile

hodgjy said:


> I bought it new with the uber already installed.  I've never heard the non-uber version.


 
 You're not going to make an unwarranted assumption that the Uber version sounds better? You're letting your ego sag I think.


----------



## hodgjy

pirakaphile said:


> You're not going to make an unwarranted assumption that the Uber version sounds better? You're letting your ego sag I think.


 






 Bingo.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> You're not going to make an unwarranted assumption that the Uber version sounds better? You're letting your ego sag I think.


 
 I'll do it!!! The uber sounds better in every way & is a must have upgrade... if you don't get it you should be ashamed to call yourself an audiophile!!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 hahah jaykay. never hadda chance to do a direct comparison between un-ubered vs uber. also i think people who didn't have uber, but then installed uber, will always say it sounds better (even if it sounded the same) due to expectation bias. i imagine the differences will be extremely subtle considering how upgrading to completely different dac chips or a lot more expensive dacs already only provides subtle differences from my experiences. ymmv.
  
 but i did buy the uber version. afterall, it boosts ur audiophile street cred, so why not? =P


----------



## StanD

money4me247 said:


> I'll do it!!! The uber sounds better in every way & is a must have upgrade... if you don't get it you should be ashamed to call yourself an audiophile!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In the world of DACs and golden ears, the price of the Uber upgrade is peanuts.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> but i did buy the uber version. afterall, it boosts ur audiophile street cred, so why not? =P


 
  
 Music Alchemist + Yggdrasil = audiophile street cred = (insert comical benefits here)
  
 By the way, I thought this was interesting:
  


purrin said:


> *Schiit Yggdrasil USB Gen 3* Just when you think the Gen V is good, the Yggdrasil is even better. You wouldn't believe how much musical information is contained in those 44/16 files; and just how much lesser DACs leave behind. Brings those old or even bad recordings into a new light. Monster dynamics, bass that stops on a dime, tight precision, decay and ambient cues that don't suddenly disappear when they are not supposed to. No digital crap. Makes me reminisce of vinyl in my youth. The Yggdrasil is the 2015 update to the Theta V by the same guys. The Yggdrasil is really beyond words.
> 
> The downside? Kinda sounds like **** in the first few hours. 24-48 hours at minimum to warm up. One week for best results.


 
  
 And here's a review thread for the Yggdrasil as well:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/752914/yggdrasil-a-p-review-two-days-of-paradise
  
 I'm assuming the production unit won't have the warm-up issues.


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> Music Alchemist + Yggdrasil = audiophile street cred = (insert comical benefits here)
> 
> By the way, I thought this was interesting:
> 
> ...


 
  
 There probably aren't any warm-up issues in reality anyway.


----------



## StanD

If one cannot hear things that others do not, one loses their street creds, Go figure.


----------



## ThurstonX

music alchemist said:


> Music Alchemist + Yggdrasil = audiophile street cred = (insert comical benefits here)
> 
> By the way, I thought this was interesting:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmmm, that's quite a claim.  Hope to put it to the test.  This may go beyond golden ears.
  
*Try these on for size*:


----------



## BeatsWork

stand said:


> If one cannot hear things that others do not, one loses their street creds, Go figure.


 
  
 Sadly one too many concerts/clubs in my youth has left me unable to appreciate the subtleties imparted by more esoteric gear, 32bit files and titanium cables (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).


----------



## StanD

beatswork said:


> Sadly one too many concerts/clubs in my youth has left me unable to appreciate the subtleties imparted by more esoteric gear, 32bit files and titanium cables (that's my story and I'm sticking to it).


 
 Sounds credible.


----------



## Music Alchemist

thurstonx said:


> Hmmmm, that's quite a claim.  Hope to put it to the test.  This may go beyond golden ears.
> 
> *Try these on for size*:


 
  
 Yep, I mentioned in the past that I want to properly compare the Yggdrasil to affordable DACs.
  
 Wow, those look gorgeous! Gives new meaning to elitist audiophile snobbery.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> If one cannot hear things that others do not, one loses their street creds, Go figure.


 
 The trick is to close your eyes while you listen and lose yourself in the music. Ego only exists between the musicians when you're listening.  I'd better start up an enlightenment thread sooner or later, giving in-depth advice into the mindset of the chill audiophile.


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> Yep, I mentioned in the past that I want to properly compare the Yggdrasil to affordable DACs.
> 
> Wow, those look gorgeous! Gives new meaning to elitist audiophile snobbery.


 
 Gorgeous? I find them horrendous. But to each their own.  It definitely doesn't mix well with Schiit's industrial sci-fi lookin' style


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> Gorgeous? I find them horrendous. But to each their own.  It definitely doesn't mix well with Schiit's industrial sci-fi lookin' style


 
  
 I tend to like elitist, snobbish things, like castles, jewels, swords, and so on. But there's no way I would buy headphones with jewels on them. lol


----------



## BeatsWork

pirakaphile said:


> Gorgeous? I find them horrendous. But to each their own.  It definitely doesn't mix well with Schiit's industrial sci-fi lookin' style


 
  
 I agree that's why I'm saving up for these understated beauties sold by a leader in high quality audio so that I too can be a "golden ears"


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> I tend to like elitist, snobbish things, like castles, jewels, swords, and so on. But there's no way I would buy headphones with jewels on them. lol


 
 No iBeats Deluxe for you.


----------



## ThurstonX

pirakaphile said:


> The trick is to close your eyes while you listen and lose yourself in the music. Ego only exists between the musicians when you're listening.  I'd better start up an enlightenment thread sooner or later, giving in-depth advice into the mindset of the chill audiophile.


 
  
 Absolutely.  Had that experience last night.  Must. Block. Out. Head-Fi. And. PC!  Really makes a big difference.
  
 Try it in a crowd at a concert, esp. in a club.  It's been a while, but I have distinct memories of the sensation.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> No iBeats Deluxe for you.


 


  
 I am perfectly fine without the adoration of Nicki Minaj.


----------



## ThurstonX

music alchemist said:


> Yep, I mentioned in the past that I want to properly compare the Yggdrasil to affordable DACs.
> 
> Wow, those look gorgeous! Gives new meaning to elitist audiophile snobbery.


 
  
 Was just reading the first few pages of that Yggy review thread.  I wanna put that Schiit to the test!
  
 No, I did _*not*_ post that pic because those cans are "gorgeous"!  Visually hilarious, perhaps, but not gorgeous.  The image that pops into my mind every time I look at them (thankfully not often) is them on Marie Antoinette's head in a basket with many happy peasants cheering


----------



## RRod

thurstonx said:


> Was just reading the first few pages of that Yggy review thread.  I wanna put that Schiit to the test!
> 
> No, I did _*not*_ post that pic because those cans are "gorgeous"!  Visually hilarious, perhaps, but not gorgeous.  The image that pops into my mind every time I look at them (thankfully not often) is them on Marie Antoinette's head in a basket with many happy peasants cheering


 
  
 Heh, I was thinking about the same thing. Off with her headphones!


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> I tend to like elitist, snobbish things, like castles, jewels, swords, and so on. But there's no way I would buy headphones with jewels on them. lol


 
 I like castles and swords, so long as they're part of a massive battle filled with pain and war and blood. I tend to like corporate or fantastical dystopias with industrial design or angular stuff. What can I say, I'm a goth at heart and hate the whole world. 
  
  


beatswork said:


> I agree that's why I'm saving up for these understated beauties sold by a leader in high quality audio so that I too can be a "golden ears"


 
 Bluh. Closed cans make me nauseous.


----------



## Pirakaphile

thurstonx said:


> Absolutely.  Had that experience last night.  Must. Block. Out. Head-Fi. And. PC!  Really makes a big difference.
> 
> Try it in a crowd at a concert, esp. in a club.  It's been a while, but I have distinct memories of the sensation.


 
 I always shut the screen off and turn my chair so I face the room. Lights off and door closed. The only thing that could go wrong is the damn heating, the neighbors, or the bright-ass lights that the Magni/Modi both have. Grrrrr, I need to be enveloped in music, not photons!


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> I like castles and swords, so long as they're part of a massive battle filled with pain and war and blood. I tend to like corporate or fantastical dystopias with industrial design or angular stuff. What can I say, I'm a goth at heart and hate the whole world.
> 
> Bluh. Closed cans make me nauseous.


 
  
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_architecture 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My favorite closed headphone (the Focal Spirit Professional) had a very bad resonance where the sound reflected and swelled up, hurting my ears sometimes. It's like the sound was trying to get out, but had nowhere to go. Most closed headphones don't have a resonance that bad. Perhaps it had something to do with why the headphone had such excellent impact and physicality compared to other dynamics I've heard...or perhaps the two phenomena were distinct from each other.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> I always shut the screen off and turn my chair so I face the room. Lights off and door closed. The only thing that could go wrong is the damn heating, the neighbors, or the bright-ass lights that the Magni/Modi both have. Grrrrr, I need to be enveloped in music, not photons!


 
  
 Use LightDims! =D


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_architecture
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Think more fantastical architecture like Minas Tirith and you've got what I like. 
  
  


music alchemist said:


> Use LightDims! =D


 
 Wazat?


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> Think more fantastical architecture like Minas Tirith and you've got what I like.
> 
> Wazat?


 
  
 Yeah, I like it all.
  
LightDims are tiny pieces of something that cost almost nothing which you put over the LED lights to make them not so bright.


----------



## dpaton

Sorry wasted post - you posted a better link to LightDims above ^


----------



## StanD

Live from Thurston's Lab. Rangy bootlegged this picture.


----------



## ThurstonX

music alchemist said:


> Use LightDims! =D


 
  
 Question: How well do they work with the raised LEDs on most Schiit gear?  Only my Bifrost has LEDs that do not protrude.  I tried making my own using layers of tape, and even some 6 mil (? I think so) plastic sheeting, but those damn LEDs just push back and require far too large squares or circles to stay stuck on.  That said, the annoying brightness is reduced.
  
 The only thought I've had on how to counteract the protruding LEDs is to stack circles of tape (think hole punch size), punch a hole in the center using my sharp, pointy soldering iron tip or whatever, fit that stack over the protrusion, then cap it off with a few solid layers.  Bit of a PITA, but maybe when I'm bored enough, I'll try it.  I need three (Lyr & Wyrd).


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> I am perfectly fine without the adoration of Nicki Minaj.



Those beats would look great, being fried by my Ragnarok, on full power Just joking


----------



## Music Alchemist

thurstonx said:


> Question: How well do they work with the raised LEDs on most Schiit gear?  Only my Bifrost has LEDs that do not protrude.  I tried making my own using layers of tape, and even some 6 mil (? I think so) plastic sheeting, but those damn LEDs just push back and require far too large squares or circles to stay stuck on.  That said, the annoying brightness is reduced.
> 
> The only thought I've had on how to counteract the protruding LEDs is to stack circles of tape (think hole punch size), punch a hole in the center using my sharp, pointy soldering iron tip or whatever, fit that stack over the protrusion, then cap it off with a few solid layers.  Bit of a PITA, but maybe when I'm bored enough, I'll try it.  I need three (Lyr & Wyrd).


 
  
 I used them on the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 with no problems. LightDims come in packs with lots of different sizes, anyway.
  


reddog said:


> Those beats would look great, being fried by my Ragnarok, on full power Just joking


 
  
 OHHH! He went there! reddog the destroyer strikes again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We need to devise a marketing campaign to give this "death by Ragnarok" joke more exposure.


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> I used them on the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 with no problems. LightDims come in packs with lots of different sizes, anyway.
> 
> 
> OHHH! He went there! reddog the destroyer strikes again.
> ...



Lol cool


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> Lol cool


 
  
 Being cool is not good enough, my friend. Oooh, I know: you could offer a service where people send in their hated headphones for you to murder in cold electricity. You could upsell a video package for an extra fee. Let's see them sparks!


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> Being cool is not good enough, my friend. Oooh, I know: you could offer a service where people send in their hated headphones for you to murder in cold electricity. You could upsell a video package for an extra fee. Let's see them sparks!


 
  
 ThurstonX has a bunch of unused cans holding down a coat rack ....


----------



## BeatsWork

music alchemist said:


> OHHH! He went there! reddog the destroyer strikes again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I kept the original files somewhere. Looking back I'm kicking myself for not giving Red a Viking helmet .... hey it was 2am ....


----------



## Music Alchemist

beatswork said:


> I think I kept the original files somewhere. Looking back I'm kicking myself for not giving Red a Viking helmet .... hey it was 2am ....


 
  
 Vikings were technically pirates, so close enough. ^_^


----------



## crixnet

music alchemist said:


> Use LightDims! =D


 


> Question: How well do they work with the raised LEDs on most Schiit gear?  Only my Bifrost has LEDs that do not protrude.  I tried making my own using layers of tape, and even some 6 mil (? I think so) plastic sheeting, but those damn LEDs just push back and require far too large squares or circles to stay stuck on.  That said, the annoying brightness is reduced.
> 
> The only thought I've had on how to counteract the protruding LEDs is to stack circles of tape (think hole punch size), punch a hole in the center using my sharp, pointy soldering iron tip or whatever, fit that stack over the protrusion, then cap it off with a few solid layers.  Bit of a PITA, but maybe when I'm bored enough, I'll try it.  I need three (Lyr & Wyrd).


 
  


 Lyr 2 LED doesn't protrude. It's the same as the Bitfrost (Uber, in my case).


----------



## rovopio

thurstonx said:


> Question: How well do they work with the raised LEDs on most Schiit gear?  Only my Bifrost has LEDs that do not protrude.  I tried making my own using layers of tape, and even some 6 mil (? I think so) plastic sheeting, but those damn LEDs just push back and require far too large squares or circles to stay stuck on.  That said, the annoying brightness is reduced.
> 
> The only thought I've had on how to counteract the protruding LEDs is to stack circles of tape (think hole punch size), punch a hole in the center using my sharp, pointy soldering iron tip or whatever, fit that stack over the protrusion, then cap it off with a few solid layers.  Bit of a PITA, but maybe when I'm bored enough, I'll try it.  I need three (Lyr & Wyrd).


 
  
 im using lightdims with everything, including my schiit item


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> Vikings were technically pirates, so close enough. ^_^



Lol I was in national geographic, in a pirate painting "taking the whyndah" it's great being a pirate lol.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> Lol I was in national geographic, in a pirate painting "taking the whyndah" it's great being a pirate lol.


 
  
This South Park episode about pirates is a must-watch!


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> This South Park episode about pirates is a must-watch!



Yes that one was great, it really makes me lol.


----------



## mgavin

Got my valhalla 2 coming in this Thursday!


----------



## Pirakaphile

I'd use lightdims, but I'm not going to pay money for something I could find a substitute for in my own home. Now, all I need to do is find something suitable that fits the colour.. Duct tape?


----------



## Pirakaphile

mgavin said:


> Got my valhalla 2 coming in this Thursday!


 
 Congrats, and best of listening to you!


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> I'd use lightdims, but I'm not going to pay money for something I could find a substitute for in my own home. Now, all I need to do is find something suitable that fits the colour.. Duct tape?


 
  
 The benefit with LightDims is that they are transparent and easy to apply and remove. Duct tape wouldn't let you see the lights at all and would be nasty to remove.


----------



## BeatsWork

pirakaphile said:


> I'd use lightdims, but I'm not going to pay money for something I could find a substitute for in my own home. Now, all I need to do is find something suitable that fits the colour.. Duct tape?



 


Or sunglasses ...


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> The benefit with LightDims is that they are transparent and easy to apply and remove. Duct tape wouldn't let you see the lights at all and would be nasty to remove.


 
 But if it costs money, I'm going to feel bad about buying it.  And I don't really want to see the lights at all, I listen in the darkness.
  
  


beatswork said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > I'd use lightdims, but I'm not going to pay money for something I could find a substitute for in my own home. Now, all I need to do is find something suitable that fits the colour.. Duct tape?
> ...


 
 I took my normal glasses off while listening for a reason, and that reason is not to put on sunglasses!


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> But if it costs money, I'm going to feel bad about buying it.  And I don't really want to see the lights at all, I listen in the darkness.
> 
> I took my normal glasses off while listening for a reason, and that reason is not to put on sunglasses!


 
  
 Fair enough. It's kinda nice that the Fulla doesn't have any lights.
  
 Yeah, I take my glasses off while wearing headphones as well, since it improves comfort and sound quality. (I keep 'em on for videos, though!)


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> I'd use lightdims, but I'm not going to pay money for something I could find a substitute for in my own home. Now, all I need to do is find something suitable that fits the colour.. Duct tape?


 
 You can try a small piece of translucent plastic from a milk container. I happen to have a set of different sizes of hole punches, but haven't bothered since the light doesn't bug me when my eyes are closed.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> I listen in the darkness.


 


stand said:


> the light doesn't bug me when my eyes are closed.


 
  
 So one of you turns off the lights (and/or closes the blinds or descends into a basement...lol) and the other closes his eyes.
  
 I'm learning so much about everyone's listening habits on this page!


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> Fair enough. It's kinda nice that the Fulla doesn't have any lights.
> 
> Yeah, I take my glasses off while wearing headphones as well, since it improves comfort and sound quality. (I keep 'em on for videos, though!)


 
 A true audiophile would only listen.  If watching youtube, I usually just use earbuds, but if it's a movie I use the HiFiMans now. The Beyers are hard to listen to since I can really hear the veering from neutrality. 
  
  


stand said:


> You can try a small piece of translucent plastic from a milk container. I happen to have a set of different sizes of hole punches, but haven't bothered since the light doesn't bug me when my eyes are closed.


 
 But it would look hideous with the lights in the room on! Think of the children!


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> So one of you turns off the lights (and/or closes the blinds or descends into a basement...lol) and the other closes his eyes.
> 
> I'm learning so much about everyone's listening habits on this page!


 
 I can listen more carefully and enjoy the music better without visual stimuli taking up brain time and acting as a distraction.


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> So one of you turns off the lights (and/or closes the blinds or descends into a basement...lol) and the other closes his eyes.
> 
> I'm learning so much about everyone's listening habits on this page!


 
 *dungeon


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> A true audiophile would only listen.  If watching youtube, I usually just use earbuds, but if it's a movie I use the HiFiMans now. The Beyers are hard to listen to since I can really hear the veering from neutrality.


 
  
 It's well known that the DT 990 has boosted bass and treble. Do you mean that it sounds too bright to you?
  
 Shoulda gone with the 880 like me! (Just teasin' ya. I actually prefer the look of the DT 990 Edition/Premium.)
  


stand said:


> I can listen more carefully and enjoy the music better without visual stimuli taking up brain time and acting as a distraction.


 
  
 Indeed.
  
 Then again, music is an encompassing experience for me, so sometimes I like to move around or have stuff to ramp up the intensity. I almost always start a listening session with an energy drink or soda (I know it's unhealthy), and almost always select random tracks to play based on my mood at the moment. Chemical stimuli can dramatically enhance the enjoyment of music. Moving around, thinking certain thoughts, and manipulating your body to react in a certain way takes it even further, but it has to be the right combination.
  


pirakaphile said:


> *dungeon


 
  
 At least you didn't claim to have an upstairs room without windows. =D


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> But it would look hideous with the lights in the room on! Think of the children!


 
 it's better to get children desensitized to hideousness... they will see a lot of ugly things when they grow up


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> At least you didn't claim to have an upstairs room without windows. =D


 
 I have an upstairs room.........with windows.


----------



## TinearedOne

Shifting the topic, I can't believe how quick Schiit's turnaround is for e-mails.  I e-mailed a question and received the answer from Nick within 90 minutes.... on a Saturday!!!  Slowly but surely accumulating a pile of Schiit, and happy with everything about the company at this point.  Valhalla 2 is next, I think...  I want to try tubes and it seems a safe way to do it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinearedone said:


> Shifting the topic, I can't believe how quick Schiit's turnaround is for e-mails.  I e-mailed a question and received the answer from Nick within 90 minutes.... on a Saturday!!!  Slowly but surely accumulating a pile of Schiit, and happy with everything about the company at this point.  Valhalla 2 is next, I think...  I want to try tubes and it seems a safe way to do it.


 
  
 I talk to him on a consistent basis, since I always have questions. He sometimes replies within a few minutes.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> I talk to him on a consistent basis, since I always have questions. He sometimes replies within a few minutes.


 
 loll!!! i can imagine you pestering him w/ long questions & his short succinct replies =P


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> loll!!! i can imagine you pestering him w/ long questions & his short succinct replies =P


 
  
 That's exactly what happens. But as it turns out, his short replies perfectly answer my questions.
  
 ...He's probably reading this post and thinking, "Hey, I know that guy." XD


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> I talk to him on a consistent basis, since I always have questions. He sometimes replies within a few minutes.


 
 You call him on the phone or just drop by?


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

Picture time! I'm new here and slowly joining a few threads 

 Running my Gungnir Gen 2 USB -> Valhalla 1 Black -> Beyer T1 / DT770 Pro depending on mood and whether or not I need to block out background noise.  Sounds better to me every day!


----------



## zabzaf

Love my Mjolnir/Valhalla 2 combo!


----------



## reddog

seeing your amazing black Valhalla, really temps me to purchase black bifrost uber. But no I must be patient and get Yggdrasil. But the Schiit in black does look very nice.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

liladammcla said:


> Picture time! I'm new here and slowly joining a few threads
> 
> Running my Gungnir Gen 2 USB -> Valhalla 1 Black -> Beyer T1 / DT770 Pro depending on mood and whether or not I need to block out background noise.  Sounds better to me every day!


 
 Very nice! The black looks cool. I'd be curious to hear the Valhalla. I've been listening to the Lyr (hybrid) and quite enjoy it.


----------



## reddog

Yes I have thought about getting a Valhalla 2 and see if they can really make my Dt 880 600 ohm headphones sing. But right now I am saving all money, like a greedy Gus, for a Yggdrasil. But I did some creative accounting and cancelled the premium cable subscriptions. So the question is how do I spend 500 dollars. Do I get a black Bifrost Uber or should I go for the Oppo pm-3. Or should I just put the money towards expensive cans like the Sennheiser HD 800 or a a LCD-X. Hope everyone has a great maniacal Monday, I need to go deal with my hallucinating mother. Hmm dementia might be a underrated buz.


----------



## raybone0566

Does a balanced amplifier have to be paired with a balanced dac?


----------



## noobandroid

raybone0566 said:


> Does a balanced amplifier have to be paired with a balanced dac?


 
 i think you have mistaken the "balanced" we are talking here, it's a type of connection, not the SQ "balanced"


----------



## raybone0566

noobandroid said:


> i think you have mistaken the "balanced" we are talking here, it's a type of connection, not the SQ "balanced"


This wasn't in reference to anything. Just a question. Does a balanced amp have to be paired with a balanced dac, or could I use a non-balanced.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> Yes I have thought about getting a Valhalla 2 and see if they can really make my Dt 880 600 ohm headphones sing. But right now I am saving all money, like a greedy Gus, for a Yggdrasil. But I did some creative accounting and cancelled the premium cable subscriptions. So the question is how do I spend 500 dollars. Do I get a black Bifrost Uber or should I go for the Oppo pm-3. Or should I just put the money towards expensive cans like the Sennheiser HD 800 or a a LCD-X. Hope everyone has a great maniacal Monday, I need to go deal with my hallucinating mother. Hmm dementia might be a underrated buz.


 
 Mother knows best, I'll bet that she can tell you which to get.


----------



## noobandroid

raybone0566 said:


> This wasn't in reference to anything. Just a question. Does a balanced amp have to be paired with a balanced dac, or could I use a non-balanced.


 
 I've seen magni paired with a balanced amp, so IMO it doesnt matter, but for some, they do


----------



## reddog

stand said:


> Mother knows best, I'll bet that she can tell you which to get.



My mom does not get the headphone thing lol. She says I should listen to sea shells and put the money , under my bed lol.


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> My mom does not get the headphone thing lol. She says I should listen to sea shells and put the money , under my bed lol.


 
 It is your mission to convert her.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> My mom does not get the headphone thing lol. She says I should listen to sea shells and put the money , under my bed lol.


 
 why under your bed? that's the first place they'll look!!
  
 hide your money in the sea shells!


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> Yes I have thought about getting a Valhalla 2 and see if they can really make my Dt 880 600 ohm headphones sing. But right now I am saving all money, like a greedy Gus, for a Yggdrasil. But I did some creative accounting and cancelled the premium cable subscriptions. So the question is how do I spend 500 dollars. Do I get a black Bifrost Uber or should I go for the Oppo pm-3. Or should I just put the money towards expensive cans like the Sennheiser HD 800 or a a LCD-X. Hope everyone has a great maniacal Monday, I need to go deal with my hallucinating mother. Hmm dementia might be a underrated buz.


 
  
 I did not notice that you had those headphones. When did you get them? UPS will deliver the same ones to me in a few hours. I will use my Fulla to drive them. According to this link, the combo can reach 109 dB. That's dangerously loud. I am skeptical about the whole "an amp needs to handle 120 dB dynamic peaks without clipping" thing. How often do we actually hear 120 dB dynamic peaks with normal listening levels? Since even the most dynamic music only has about 30 dB of dynamic range, and the majority of dynamic music probably doesn't exceed 15 dB of dynamic range, and ideal/average/normal listening levels are only 60-80 dB, 90-110 dB should be all we ever need. According to the numbers, even one of the hardest-to-drive headphones, the HiFiMAN HE-6, only needs 447 mW at 50 ohms to reach 110 dB. The Abyss AB-1266 only needs 316 mW. With most headphones, that number is much closer to zero. The 660 ohm DT 880 only needs 25 mW at 660 ohms. (The number is the same at 600 ohms.) With the Sennheiser HD 800, it's 21 mW. With the newer Audeze LCD-3, it's 6 mW. And so on. In other words, in terms of sheer output power and realistic listening levels, just about any amp has more than enough power to drive all but the least sensitive headphones.


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> I did not notice that you had those headphones. When did you get them? UPS will deliver the same ones to me in a few hours. I will use my Fulla to drive them. According to this link, the combo can reach 109 dB. That's dangerously loud. I am skeptical about the whole "an amp needs to handle 120 dB dynamic peaks without clipping" thing. How often do we actually hear 120 dB dynamic peaks with normal listening levels? Since even the most dynamic music only has about 30 dB of dynamic range, and the majority of dynamic music probably doesn't exceed 15 dB of dynamic range, and ideal/average/normal listening levels are only 60-80 dB, 90-110 dB should be all we ever need. According to the numbers, even one of the hardest-to-drive headphones, the HiFiMAN HE-6, only needs 447 mW at 50 ohms to reach 110 dB. The Abyss AB-1266 only needs 316 mW. With most headphones, that number is much closer to zero. The 660 ohm DT 880 only needs 25 mW at 660 ohms. (The number is the same at 600 ohms.) With the Sennheiser HD 800, it's 21 mW. With the newer Audeze LCD-3, it's 6 mW. And so on. In other words, in terms of sheer output power and realistic listening levels, just about any amp has more than enough power to drive all but the least sensitive headphones.



I have had my Dt 880's for about a year, got them used from Amazon, open box sale. The DT 880's are a great headphone, I use it in my second listening station. That way I can watch my mother, and listen to great jams. I mostly use my lyr2 to drive these cans. I almost snagged a T1 at a estate sale, because the dt 880 880's sound so good.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> I have had my Dt 880's for about a year, got them used from Amazon, open box sale. The DT 880's are a great headphone, I use it in my second listening station. That way I can watch my mother, and listen to great jams. I mostly use my lyr2 to drive these cans. I almost snagged a T1 at a estate sale, because the dt 880 880's sound so good.


 
  
 That Lyr 2 looks so sexy! I'm just a little hesitant about spending more than $200 on an amp now that I've been "crunching the numbers" and realized that most headphones don't actually need much power to reach even dangerously loud SPL levels. But still, if I had plenty to spare, I would probably buy it (or even the Ragnarok) regardless.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> I have had my Dt 880's for about a year, got them used from Amazon, open box sale. The DT 880's are a great headphone, I use it in my second listening station. That way I can watch my mother, and listen to great jams. I mostly use my lyr2 to drive these cans. I almost snagged a T1 at a estate sale, because the dt 880 880's sound so good.


 
 there is some really good t1 sales right now in f/s forums. was going to snipe one, but realized how little money i have atm


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> I did not notice that you had those headphones. When did you get them? UPS will deliver the same ones to me in a few hours. I will use my Fulla to drive them. According to this link, the combo can reach 109 dB. That's dangerously loud. I am skeptical about the whole "an amp needs to handle 120 dB dynamic peaks without clipping" thing. How often do we actually hear 120 dB dynamic peaks with normal listening levels? Since even the most dynamic music only has about 30 dB of dynamic range, and the majority of dynamic music probably doesn't exceed 15 dB of dynamic range, and ideal/average/normal listening levels are only 60-80 dB, 90-110 dB should be all we ever need. According to the numbers, even one of the hardest-to-drive headphones, the HiFiMAN HE-6, only needs 447 mW at 50 ohms to reach 110 dB. The Abyss AB-1266 only needs 316 mW. With most headphones, that number is much closer to zero. The 660 ohm DT 880 only needs 25 mW at 660 ohms. (The number is the same at 600 ohms.) With the Sennheiser HD 800, it's 21 mW. With the newer Audeze LCD-3, it's 6 mW. And so on. In other words, in terms of sheer output power and realistic listening levels, just about any amp has more than enough power to drive all but the least sensitive headphones.


 
 Although much of contemporary music is heavily compressed (dynamically) I would hope that it is not as bad as 15 dB of DR. Wnen clipping occurs on peaks you should be able to hear the transient distortion You don't need to listen to a sustained level of 109 dB or higher, just need to reach it cleanly on peaks. I've heard this distortion when trying to use my HE-500's on amps without enough power. In the case of the HE-500's 1W seems to be plenty enough, my smartphone or iPod touch can't always handle it though my Asgard 2 or Magni can do it without any sweat.
 The HE-6 requires 1.4W to get to 115 dBSPL and 4.47W to get to 120 dBSPL. It is not linear so the 447mW at 110 dBSPL figure you gave can be misleading.


----------



## Viktor S

I extended my desk, so now my Schiit's can have their own space.


----------



## hodgjy

music alchemist said:


> I did not notice that you had those headphones. When did you get them? UPS will deliver the same ones to me in a few hours. I will use my Fulla to drive them. According to this link, the combo can reach 109 dB. That's dangerously loud. I am skeptical about the whole "an amp needs to handle 120 dB dynamic peaks without clipping" thing. How often do we actually hear 120 dB dynamic peaks with normal listening levels? Since even the most dynamic music only has about 30 dB of dynamic range, and the majority of dynamic music probably doesn't exceed 15 dB of dynamic range, and ideal/average/normal listening levels are only 60-80 dB, 90-110 dB should be all we ever need. According to the numbers, even one of the hardest-to-drive headphones, the HiFiMAN HE-6, only needs 447 mW at 50 ohms to reach 110 dB. The Abyss AB-1266 only needs 316 mW. With most headphones, that number is much closer to zero. The 660 ohm DT 880 only needs 25 mW at 660 ohms. (The number is the same at 600 ohms.) With the Sennheiser HD 800, it's 21 mW. With the newer Audeze LCD-3, it's 6 mW. And so on. In other words, in terms of sheer output power and realistic listening levels, just about any amp has more than enough power to drive all but the least sensitive headphones.


 
 Correct.  Most headphones only need a full mW.  I took an SPL meter to my LCD 2.2F the other day, and I found out my preferred listening was around 75 db.  That's not much power at all.  That's nominally less than 1 mW.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> Correct.  Most headphones only need a full mW.  I took an SPL meter to my LCD 2.2F the other day, and I found out my preferred listening was around 75 db.  That's not much power at all.  That's nominally less than 1 mW.


 
 Since the power to dBSPL relationship is not linear the power required for peaks is much more. In my case my preferred listening level at least 10 dBSPL higher I'll need much more juice for peaks. My HE500's would require about 0.4 mW to hit 95dbSPL and 1W to hit 119 dBSPL for peaks which is more than enough. I have an Asgard 2 than can sustain 1W, which is more than good enough. I don't know why some folks insist that these cans need more than 2 Watts to sound good????


----------



## Netrum

I have now owned my Asgard 2 and Modi for almost 2 years.
And i have never regretted the purchase!
But i am looking into upgrading to Modi 2 Über.
And perhaps a Lyr 2


----------



## hodgjy

stand said:


> Since the power to dBSPL relationship is not linear the power required for peaks is much more. In my case my preferred listening level at least 10 dBSPL higher I'll need much more juice for peaks. My HE500's would require about 0.4 mW to hit 95dbSPL and 1W to hit 119 dBSPL for peaks which is more than enough. I have an Asgard 2 than can sustain 1W, which is more than good enough. I don't know why some folks insist that these cans need more than 2 Watts to sound good????


 
 Agree.  That's why I pointed out nominally less than 1 mW.  My amp can crank 2800 mW, so I have no worries.


----------



## RickB

netrum said:


> I have now owned my Asgard 2 and Modi for almost 2 years.
> And i have never regretted the purchase!
> But i am looking into upgrading to Modi 2 Über.
> And perhaps a Lyr 2


 
  
 To me the Modi 2U sounds better than the Modi, but it's an extremely subtle thing and may be confirmation bias.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> Agree.  That's why I pointed out nominally less than 1 mW.  My amp can crank 2800 mW, so I have no worries.


 
 I'd say that the bottom of the Schiit pile Magni 2 has enough power for almost any headphone that most people own. Perhaps if someone has an inefficient 600 Ohm can the Magni might not be the preferred Amp. I begin to wonder if the Magni 2 is sufficient to run a pair og HE-6's for someone that listens at lower volumes. I'm too lazy to do the math right now. OK, I succumbed to curiosity, the Magni 2 can kick out about 113.5 dBSPL and the Uber about 114.3 dbSPL for the HE-6s. That's better than I thought. This is for peaks that many listeners might never reach.


----------



## Tuco1965

My Magni powers my 600 Ohm Sextetts quite well.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> My Magni powers my 600 Ohm Sextetts quite well.


 
 Do you know what the sensitivity of those cans are?


----------



## Nic Rhodes

0.5w in HE6 has been a disaster in my experience, this headphone needs much more than that to sing correctly. The best I ever heard it was on the end of 200w Bryston monobocks!. With proper power (5w+, cheap Lyrs or more expensive other amps) then and only then do you see the quality of this model coming through. Great amps like the Bryston headphone amp just could not power this so I think the numbers here are too low. All IMHO.


----------



## Tuco1965

stand said:


> Do you know what the sensitivity of those cans are?


 
  
 "The K240 is NOT for use with your iPhone. With approaching 1 Vrms needed to drive these 600 Ohm headphones to 90dBSPL you'll need a proper amp to deliver enough voltage for a solid listening level." From Tyll's write up on innerfidelity.


----------



## StanD

nic rhodes said:


> 0.5w in HE6 has been a disaster in my experience, this headphone needs much more than that to sing correctly. The best I ever heard it was on the end of 200w Bryston monobocks!. With proper power (5w+, cheap Lyrs or more expensive other amps) then and only then do you see the quality of this model coming through. Great amps like the Bryston headphone amp just could not power this so I think the numbers here are too low. All IMHO.


 
 How many watts does that amp deliver at 50 Ohms and how much peak wattage will that deliver? Is it necessary to burn the ears off of one's head?
 At what nominal dBSPL level do you listen at?
 The Lyr 2 can deliver a sustained 119.5 dBSPL to HE-6s. That's plenty enough for peaks. The Lyr 2 can deliver this power without compromises.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> Although much of contemporary music is heavily compressed (dynamically) I would hope that it is not as bad as 15 dB of DR. Wnen clipping occurs on peaks you should be able to hear the transient distortion You don't need to listen to a sustained level of 109 dB or higher, just need to reach it cleanly on peaks. I've heard this distortion when trying to use my HE-500's on amps without enough power. In the case of the HE-500's 1W seems to be plenty enough, my smartphone or iPod touch can't always handle it though my Asgard 2 or Magni can do it without any sweat.
> The HE-6 requires 1.4W to get to 115 dBSPL and 4.47W to get to 120 dBSPL. It is not linear so the 447mW at 110 dBSPL figure you gave can be misleading.


 
  
 My point was, how loud are the dynamic peaks going to actually be?
  
 Here are some general guidelines for the dynamic range of music:
  


> *Highly Compressed Pop*: –6 dB to –9 dB
> *Well Recorded Pop*: –9 dB to –12 dB
> *Well Recorded Acoustic/Jazz*: –12 dB to –18 dB
> *Wide Dynamic Range Classical*: –18 dB to –30 dB


 
  
 So you would just add that much on top of your normal listening level. If the peaks do not exceed 110 dB, then a more powerful amp may not be necessary.
  
 Here are the requirements for the HE-6. It is calculated the same way as any other headphone.
 90 dB: 4 mW
 100 dB: 45 mW
 110 dB: 447 mW
 115 dB: 1,413 mW
 120 dB: 4,467 mW
  
 And for the HE-500:
 90 dB: 1 mW
 100 dB: 13 mW
 110 dB: 126 mW
 115 dB: 398 mW
 120 dB: 1,259 mW
  


hodgjy said:


> Correct.  Most headphones only need a full mW.  I took an SPL meter to my LCD 2.2F the other day, and I found out my preferred listening was around 75 db.  That's not much power at all.  That's nominally less than 1 mW.


 
  
 At a 75 dB normal listening level, using the maximum dynamic range of 30 dB (with the peak being at 105 dB), even the HE-6 would only require 141 mW at 50 ohms. (And less than 1 mW to handle just the 75 dB.)


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> My point was, how loud are the dynamic peaks going to actually be?
> 
> Here are some general guidelines for the dynamic range of music:


 
  
 The best peak-to-RMS values I have in my classical collection are around -65dB, FWIW.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Listening to the DT 880 for the first time with the Fulla. Either Audiobot 9000's estimation of 109 dB is incorrect or my normal listening level is pretty loud! I'd say 80% of the time, it has enough power for me. I already find myself occasionally reaching for the knob to turn down the volume. With perhaps 10 to 20% of the music I've tested so far, it gets almost as loud as I want it, but I normally listen even louder than this with those songs. The Fulla isn't even rated at 600 ohms. I'll get a better amp in the future. The DT 880 is more gentle-sounding than I expected. Guess it's partially due to lower distortion than many headphones. A very good headphone, but not convincingly realistic by any means. Since I want absolute realism (in the context of headphones, of course), my sights are still set on the SR-009, and perhaps SR-207 for the near future, then the Abyss once budget permits.
  


rrod said:


> The best peak-to-RMS values I have in my classical collection are around -65dB, FWIW.


 
  
 Although I listen to nearly all types of music, my favorites are metal, electronic, and modern orchestral genres. I doubt much of my collection has enough dynamic range to worry about at all.


----------



## StanD

rrod said:


> The best peak-to-RMS values I have in my classical collection are around -65dB, FWIW.


 
 65 db relative from what level? If you're nominal listening level is 75 dBSPL that probably doesn't mean that you have to go 65 dB above that as 75 dBSPL is already much louder than the lowest point in the dynamics.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> 65 db relative from what level? If you're nominal listening level is 75 dBSPL that probably doesn't mean that you have to go 65 dB above that as 75 dBSPL is already much louder than the lowest point in the dynamics.


 
  
 Ah, so with a normal listening level of, say, 90 dB, how much would you need to add on for 15 and 30 dB DR, respectively?


----------



## TinearedOne

I think 65 decibels is the entire range, from lowest audible tone to highest.  Most of the music I listen to, since it isn't symphonic, has a much narrower range, and if you read about the "loudness wars" you'll see that the industry has been narrowing that range steadily for quite some time.  That's good news for many, since it means amps have less trouble playing the narrow range music currently being produced.  
  
 For those of us who like music that swings from the sound of air in the hall to explosions of sound, it means we need to be selective in how we choose our gear.


----------



## RRod

stand said:


> 65 db relative from what level? If you're nominal listening level is 75 dBSPL that probably doesn't mean that you have to go 65 dB above that as 75 dBSPL is already much louder than the lowest point in the dynamics.


 
  
 To calculate I take the max peak, normalize it to 0dBFS, then take the lowest 3s RMS of a section with actual music (avoid beginning/ending silence). So yeah, we're talking overall track RMS of more like -30dBFS, which means if you like your average level at 75dBSPL then you're talking RMS down to 40 and peaks at 105.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rrod said:


> To calculate I take the max peak, normalize it to 0dBFS, then take the lowest 3s RMS of a section with actual music (avoid beginning/ending silence). So yeah, we're talking overall track RMS of more like -30dBFS, which means if you like your average level at 75dBSPL then you're talking RMS down to 40 and peaks at 105.


 
  
 Aha! I had a feeling it would be more like what you just described. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I need to figure out my normal listening levels for various genres. Pretty sure I listen louder than most people do.


----------



## StanD

rrod said:


> To calculate I take the max peak, normalize it to 0dBFS, then take the lowest 3s RMS of a section with actual music (avoid beginning/ending silence). So yeah, we're talking overall track RMS of more like -30dBFS, which means if you like your average level at 75dBSPL then you're talking RMS down to 40 and peaks at 105.


 
 Compressed = volume compression not data compression, Just in case someone confuses this with lossy encoding.
  
 I listen a little bit louder so 115 dBSPL of a peak suites me fine.  I use an Asgard 2 which takes my HE-500's to 119 dBSPL, more than necessary, especially with the typically compressed electric music (Jazz Fusion included) that I listen to. I also listen to classical music and have no issues with my setup under these conditions.
 I brought up my point because most people would think that the 65dB would be required for headroom. The actual amount of headroom required is based upon the average or normalized level of a recording that varies with each recording. So it might be difficult to figure out with compressed music except to say that compressed music doesn't have much DR or peaks above the average level. So not much headroom is required for compressed music.
 There's another reality to consider, the low end of dynamics vs ambient room noise. Who's going to turn off their AC in the hot summer? How loudly do you breathe, etc.


----------



## StanD

One more thought. If one considers that the average noise level in a home is 50 dBSPL, add 65 to that and you come to 115 dBSPL. Most of us will listen in a more quite location. A quite bedroom at night is 30 dbSPL, unless I'm arguing with my wife 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So if I'm not embroiled in an argument, a 95 dBSPL peak should suffice, except I listen on the loud side.
 If one uses closed back headphones then factor out the dB of isolation and lower the number for the peak.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

> Spoiler: full post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 You really shouldn't ever go beyond 100db, ever


----------



## funkymartyn

Just subbed to this thread as I now have a Schiit Magni 2 , .. thanks to the uk dealer , Electro Mod......well impressed, one thing is it normal for the case to become warm after about 30 mins onwards ?.....I assume it is ?....other to new to give my thoughts just yet.....pic below if it works.......cheers  martyn


----------



## Tuco1965

Enjoy your little Schiit!  I don't have a Magni 2, but the original Magni will warm up slightly when used.  Its all good.


----------



## reddog

Welcome to Club Schiit, may your rigs always make your cans sing.


----------



## StanD

blackenedplague said:


> You really shouldn't ever go beyond 100db, ever


 
 That may be true for the average SPL, however, peaks are another story.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> One more thought. If one considers that the average noise level in a home is 50 dBSPL, add 65 to that and you come to 115 dBSPL. Most of us will listen in a more quite location. A quite bedroom at night is 30 dbSPL, unless I'm arguing with my wife
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm confused. How are you supposed to calculate the final value with the peaks? At first, I thought you simply added the peak value to your listening level value. Now you're taking room noise into the equation. Gah! Can someone give me a simple formula?
  


blackenedplague said:


> You really shouldn't ever go beyond 100db, ever


 
  
 Since you and I both love metal, I wonder what our average listening levels are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


stand said:


> That may be true for the average SPL, however, peaks are another story.


 
  
 I wonder what the dynamic range is for most metal music. Probably not much.


----------



## crixnet

music alchemist said:


> I'm confused. How are you supposed to calculate the final value with the peaks?
> 
> I wonder what the dynamic range is for most metal music. Probably not much.




Don't know about the dynamic range of metal, but I know the volume should go to 11.


----------



## Music Alchemist

crixnet said:


> Don't know about the dynamic range of metal, but I know the volume should go to 11.


 
  
 It certainly sounds more *dynamic* (har, har) that way!


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> I'm confused. How are you supposed to calculate the final value with the peaks? At first, I thought you simply added the peak value to your listening level value. Now you're taking room noise into the equation. Gah! Can someone give me a simple formula?
> 
> 
> Since you and I both love metal, I wonder what our average listening levels are.
> ...


 
  
 The assumption is that if your room noise is 50dBSPL, then that's the quietest you'll let the soft sections of your music go. If the peaks are 65dB above these softest sections (pretty dynamic music), then that puts you at 115dBSPL for the peaks. That's not insane, but perhaps louder than one might want even for small bursts; if so, then the solution is either a quieter room or isolating headphones.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rrod said:


> The assumption is that if your room noise is 50dBSPL, then that's the quietest you'll let the soft sections of your music go. If the peaks are 65dB above these softest sections (pretty dynamic music), then that puts you at 115dBSPL for the peaks. That's not insane, but perhaps louder than one might want even for small bursts; if so, then the solution is either a quieter room or isolating headphones.


 
  
 Okay, so basically, the room noise is only a factor if you're listening to soft music in the first place. Even with orchestral stuff, I probably listen at a pretty loud SPL. Then again, most of the orchestral music I listen to is modern, with dramatic choirs and other stuff (even metal guitars!) mixed in. When I listen to classical, I usually do tend to keep things quieter, since it's usually to relax instead of be "blown away" and whatnot.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> I'm confused. How are you supposed to calculate the final value with the peaks? At first, I thought you simply added the peak value to your listening level value. Now you're taking room noise into the equation. Gah! Can someone give me a simple formula?
> 
> 
> Since you and I both love metal, I wonder what our average listening levels are.
> ...


 
 There's no simple formula as the amount of compression is not known other than it's way too much. Other than the rare quiet moments,the DR is very limited. Metal, what DR? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now is compression really bad? Depends on the genre of music because it may be part of "The Sound."


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> There's no simple formula as the amount of compression is not known other than it's way too much. Other than the rare quiet moments,the DR is very limited. Metal, what DR?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Could you link me to some good audio samples (like on YouTube) that show what clipping (and whatever other issues there are) sounds like compared to when the amp can handle the dynamic peaks?


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Could you link me to some good audio samples (like on YouTube) that show what clipping (and whatever other issues there are) sounds like compared to when the amp can handle the dynamic peaks?


 
 Sorry, don't have links. If you have Neutron on Android or ios, it has a preamp setting that you can easily use to clip, if not in hardware in software as well.


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> Okay, so basically, the room noise is only a factor if you're listening to soft music in the first place. Even with orchestral stuff, I probably listen at a pretty loud SPL. Then again, most of the orchestral music I listen to is modern, with dramatic choirs and other stuff (even metal guitars!) mixed in. When I listen to classical, I usually do tend to keep things quieter, since it's usually to relax instead of be "blown away" and whatnot.


 
  
 Room noise is only a factor if it's high enough that it forces you to jack up the volume on soft parts such that the loud parts become uncomfortable.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rrod said:


> Room noise is only a factor if it's high enough that it forces you to jack up the volume on soft parts such that the loud parts become uncomfortable.


 
  
 I don't hear any room noise, much less with music playing. I only hear noises from outside occasionally, which I don't hear when music is playing unless they're really loud noises like a truck or a doorknock.


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> I don't hear any room noise, much less with music playing. I only hear noises from outside occasionally, which I don't hear when music is playing unless they're really loud noises like a truck or a doorknock.


 
  
 It's not so much you "hear" the room noise, you just suddenly realize you're listening louder than you like. Even turning off a CPU fan can make a real difference in how low you can go on the pot and still hear the soft parts (if your music has any; much doesn't).


----------



## Music Alchemist

rrod said:


> It's not so much you "hear" the room noise, you just suddenly realize you're listening louder than you like. Even turning off a CPU fan can make a real difference in how low you can go on the pot and still hear the soft parts (if your music has any; much doesn't).


 
  
 My problem is I don't want to merely hear music; I want to _feel_ it in my body and my soul and my bones! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 (My small laptop can't work without the fan running, and as mentioned, I listen loud, so I can't imagine that affecting my listening level to any significant degree.)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Music Alchemist. I have a pair of Hifiman HE-560 headphones at appox 40 Ohm- with 90 db at 1 mwatt. My math told me that my Oppo BDP-105D headphone out at 183 milliwatt at 32 Ohm should be powerful enough. In practice?
 Not even close for the Classical SACD's I listen to. If I compare the same passages-say from Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring-or the Firebird-when the orchestra goes from quiet to full blast-with my Oppo and My Lyr (6 watts RMS/channel) I get vastly different experiences. The Oppo sounds pretty nice-until the crescendo. Then it does not sound so much distorted- as compressed. With my Lyr-there is a sonic BOOM (so to speak) with the Oppo maybe a popgun. My average listening level is between 55-65 db- given the 1 mwatt for 90db, and 93 db for 2, 96 for 4 mwatt, 99 at 8 mwatt, 103 at 16, 106 at 32 mwatt, 109 at 64 and 112 db at 128- it SHOULD be enough power. It is not. Somehow the math does not convey the real world experience.
 For compressed Pop? Probably OK.
 Last night I was listening to Mahler Symphony # 6 with the San Francisco Symphony and Michael Tilson Thomas conducting on SACD. There were a few times when the music was fairly quiet and the percussionist SLAMMED a Tympani- BLAM. I jumped like a starter pistol had just gone off! With the 183 mwatt Headphone Amp? Not so much distortion as lack of impact.
  The HE-560 is difficult to drive-although not as difficult as the HE-6


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> My problem is I don't want to merely hear music; I want to _feel_ it in my body and my soul and my bones!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Then buy some speakers instead of a Stax setup


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> Music Alchemist. I have a pair of Hifiman HE-560 headphones at appox 40 Ohm- with 90 db at 1 mwatt. My math told me that my Oppo BDP-105D headphone out at 183 milliwatt at 32 Ohm should be powerful enough. In practice?
> Not even close for the Classical SACD's I listen to. If I compare the same passages-say from Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring-or the Firebird-when the orchestra goes from quiet to full blast-with my Oppo and My Lyr (6 watts RMS/channel) I get vastly different experiences. The Oppo sounds pretty nice-until the crescendo. Then it does not sound so much distorted- as compressed. With my Lyr-there is a sonic BOOM (so to speak) with the Oppo maybe a popgun. My average listening level is between 55-65 db- given the 1 mwatt for 90db, and 93 db for 2, 96 for 4 mwatt, 99 at 8 mwatt, 103 at 16, 106 at 32 mwatt, 109 at 64 and 112 db at 128- it SHOULD be enough power. It is not. Somehow the math does not convey the real world experience.
> For compressed Pop? Probably OK.
> Last night I was listening to Mahler Symphony # 6 with the San Francisco Symphony and Michael Tilson Thomas conducting on SACD. There were a few times when the music was fairly quiet and the percussionist SLAMMED a Tympani- BLAM. I jumped like a starter pistol had just gone off! With the 183 mwatt Headphone Amp? Not so much distortion as lack of impact.
> The HE-560 is difficult to drive-although not as difficult as the HE-6


 
  
 90 dB listening level + 30 dB dynamic range = 120 dB dynamic peaks! You would need a full watt to handle that. (Just an example.)
  
 How did you determine the 65 dB average listening level, by the way?
  
 It's possible that the OPPO player does something not as well as a headphone amp with the same specs, but this is just speculation.
  
 I looked up the headphone output specs for the BDP-105D.
  


> Output Power (per channel): 17mW into 600 Ω, 34mW into 300 Ω, 63mW into 150 Ω, 77mW into 120 Ω, 120mW into 60 Ω, 187mW into 32 Ω (1kHz at 0dBFS)
> Dynamic Range: >110dB


 
  
 What does it mean with the dynamic range spec?


----------



## Music Alchemist

rrod said:


> Then buy some speakers instead of a Stax setup


 
  
 hehe, I got the JVC HA-SZ2000 for when I want lots of bass and impact. The STAX would be for everything else, though lately I've been trading mid-fi headphones, since that doesn't cost me anything more than shipping. I want to wait until I live in my own house (instead of an apartment) before investing in speakers.


----------



## mgavin

I'm actually surprised how the valhalla 2 is not that loud!? I can turn it all the way up 100% and not hurt my ears. And to be honest it's really not that much louder vs my iPhone 5 alone. Should I switch to the lyr2? I'm using dt880s by the way.

Is there more headroom on the lyr2?
I was just expecting a little more headroom... Anyone else?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mgavin said:


> I'm actually surprised how the valhalla 2 is not that loud!? I can turn it all the way up 100% and not hurt my ears. And to be honest it's really not that much louder vs my iPhone 5 alone. Should I switch to the lyr2? I'm using dt880s by the way.
> 
> Is there more headroom on the lyr2?
> I was just expecting a little more headroom... Anyone else?


 
  
 Which DT 880?
  
 Valhalla 2:
  
*Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *180mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 300 ohms:* 800mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 600 ohms:* 450mW RMS per channel
  
 Lyr 2:
  
*Maximum Power, 32 ohms:* 6.0W RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 50 ohms: *4.0W RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 300 ohms:* 660mW RMS per channel
*Maximum Power, 600 ohms:* 330mW RMS per channel


----------



## David Aldrich

Which DT880s are you using? The Valhalla 2 should be able to deafen you using the 600Ω model, I believe it's capable of destroying the 250Ω model's voice coil.
  
 If you're using the 32Ω model the current limit of the Valhalla 2 will lead to low overall volumes.


----------



## mgavin

You know what. ? I forgot I could put it to high gain. Lol 1 sec. I'll report back!

Sorry dt880 premium 600 ohms


----------



## David Aldrich

It should have plenty of power for those.


----------



## Music Alchemist

mgavin said:


> You know what. ? I forgot I could put it to high gain. Lol 1 sec. I'll report back!
> 
> Sorry dt880 premium 600 ohms


 
  
 ahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was actually going to mention that.
  
 Anyway, the Lyr 2 has less power than the Valhalla 2 at 600 ohms, but it doesn't matter. The max power input of the DT 880 is only 100 mW! That means if you give them more power, you could risk damaging the headphones.
  
 You can see the headphone's power requirements here: http://www.audiobot9000.com/beyerdynamic/h/dt-880-600-ohms


----------



## mgavin

Yes it is much better on high gain mode. BUT, I still don't think that it goes so high that it'll hurt my ears. Obviously I would dial it back from there. What do you guys think?


----------



## Music Alchemist

mgavin said:


> Yes it is much better on high gain mode. BUT, I still don't think that it goes so high that it'll hurt my ears. Obviously I would dial it back from there. What do you guys think?


 
  
 You're turning it up all the way on high gain and it still isn't that loud? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 That's 450 mW into 600 ohms. It only takes 251 mW to reach 120 dB (which could deafen you with extended exposure) with that headphone. (79 mW for 115 dB and 25 mW for 110 dB, to anyone who cares and didn't know.)
  
 Even my Fulla gets too loud with many songs with the DT 880. (I have the same version as you.)


----------



## mgavin

Probably 85%


----------



## Music Alchemist

mgavin said:


> Probably 85%


 
  
 So you didn't once turn it up all the way? That's probably a good idea.


----------



## mgavin

I did for a moment. I'm listening to hiromi voice album.


----------



## Music Alchemist

I will probably trade my DT 880 for a planar magnetic headphone, possibly the HE-400. (Unless someone has a better recommendation.) Looking for something with a fuller, more engaging sound that can also be driven by the Fulla.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> I will probably trade my DT 880 for a planar magnetic headphone, possibly the HE-400. (Unless someone has a better recommendation.) Looking for something with a fuller, more engaging sound that can also be driven by the Fulla.


 
 All Oppo headphones (PM1, PM2, PM3) are pretty easily driven. So is the LCD-X based on specs & personal experience. The new HE-400i I think is easier to drive than the old HE-400. New EL-8 should also be pretty easy to drive.
  
 all those options should have ample fullness to their sound. engaging is more a personal thing, so hard to say about that.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> All Oppo headphones (PM1, PM2, PM3) are pretty easily driven. So is the LCD-X based on specs & personal experience. The new HE-400i I think is easier to drive than the old HE-400. New EL-8 should also be pretty easy to drive.
> 
> all those options should have ample fullness to their sound. engaging is more a personal thing, so hard to say about that.


 
  
 Except I wouldn't be able to trade the DT 880 for any of those... :'(
  
 But I actually just found a used HE-500 (which retailed for $900) for a lower price than I ever would have expected. Gonna try to make the money for that before someone else snatches it up!


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> Except I wouldn't be able to trade the DT 880 for any of those... :'(
> 
> But I actually just found a used HE-500 (which retailed for $900) for a lower price than I ever would have expected. Gonna try to make the money for that before someone else snatches it up!


 
 HE-500s go for the same price or lower than the new HE-400i nowadays. still a very popular & solid option though if you can handle the old school weight.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> HE-500s go for the same price or lower than the new HE-400i nowadays. still a very popular & solid option though if you can handle the old school weight.


 
  
 I'm not going to reveal the insane price I'm (hopefully) getting it for until I've claimed it!


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

For what its worth, my original Valhalla can push my T1's which are 600ohm to deafening levels easily.  I haven't had it past 65% yet because its so loud it just hurts at that point.


----------



## LilAdamMCLA

music alchemist said:


> I'm not going to reveal the insane price I'm (hopefully) getting it for until I've claimed it!


 

 wise choice! never jinx yourself! haha


----------



## Exacoustatowner

music alchemist said:


> 90 dB listening level + 30 dB dynamic range = 120 dB dynamic peaks! You would need a full watt to handle that. (Just an example.)
> 
> How did you determine the 65 dB average listening level, by the way?
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Music Alchemist
  
 No-my listening level is not 90 db! The max recommended is 85 db for no more than 4 hours. I keep the average at or below 70 db, I measured with a decibel meter -with the microphone inside the headphones. Classical has a lot of volume variation-frequently to the low side-then sometimes to the higher volumes-very briefly. Nothing painful.
 I think the Dynamic range is just the absolute limit based on the noise floor. Of course I could be wrong.


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> Hi Music Alchemist
> 
> No-my listening level is not 90 db! The max recommended is 85 db for no more than 4 hours. I keep the average at or below 70 db, I measured with a decibel meter -with the microphone inside the headphones. Classical has a lot of volume variation-frequently to the low side-then sometimes to the higher volumes-very briefly. Nothing painful.
> I think the Dynamic range is just the absolute limit based on the noise floor. Of course I could be wrong.


 
  
 Yeah, that was just an example.
  
 It's possible that something is going on with your player that makes it work differently than a normal headphone amp, but again, this is just speculation. A better comparison would be with a dedicated headphone amp with similar specs compared to the other headphone amp.


----------



## Keei

Does anyone know the difference between Lyr 1 and 2?


----------



## Music Alchemist

keei said:


> Does anyone know the difference between Lyr 1 and 2?


 
  
 http://web.archive.org/web/20120419013233/http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=3
  
 http://schiit.com/products/lyr-2


----------



## bretemm

Who uses earbuds? What are the best earbuds to use for magi and modi? 
Thanks, 
Ultimately I'm wanting to get the shure se846 but i have to save up a little more.


----------



## money4me247

keei said:


> Does anyone know the difference between Lyr 1 and 2?


 
  



> *Completely Redesigned for Flexibility*
> We completely reworked Lyr 2 to make it an even higher-performing, more flexible amp. We added a gain switch so you can now use efficient headphones (and even many IEMs.) We've also cut the noise with a new regulated high-voltage supply and DC regulated heaters. A refined Dynamically Adaptive output stage transitions seamlessly from Class A to Class AB, for excellent overall efficiency.


 
from Schiit's website; I underlined the actual differences


----------



## Naughtyson

Got an used Lyr just 2 days ago. It has noticeable background noise. I'm using HD650 and AKG Kxx. AKG has louder noise than HD650. When I turn volume up the noise increased accordingly. I tried to swap the tubes(JJ E88CC), change the power cable, change the power outlet, move around and change the RCA cable, but nothing worked. The noise even exists after I disconnect the RCA cable. I searched online, looks like many people also has noise problem for Lyr. Is it possible that the tube is dying? Any suggestion to fix it will be appreciated.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> I'm not going to reveal the insane price I'm (hopefully) getting it for until I've claimed it!




if i rmb correctly, arent u savin up for a stax sr009??

u seem to be flying thro a lot of different gear recently.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> if i rmb correctly, arent u savin up for a stax sr009??
> 
> u seem to be flying thro a lot of different gear recently.


 
  
 I plan on getting the STAX SRS-2170 system far before then. An SR-009 system is a crazy investment that will require launching new businesses to fund, which will take months at the least.
  
 Right now, I'm just getting headphones that cost me little or no money, by selling and trading stuff I already have.


----------



## money4me247

naughtyson said:


> Got an used Lyr just 2 days ago. It has noticeable background noise. I'm using HD650 and AKG Kxx. AKG has louder noise than HD650. When I turn volume up the noise increased accordingly. I tried to swap the tubes(JJ E88CC), change the power cable, change the power outlet, move around and change the RCA cable, but nothing worked. The noise even exists after I disconnect the RCA cable. I searched online, looks like many people also has noise problem for Lyr. Is it possible that the tube is dying? Any suggestion to fix it will be appreciated.




first, is the distortion worse on one side or another? Swap your tube positions and see if the more audible distortion switches positions. If so, you have defective tubes, contact Schiit CS.

If not, it may be a ground loop issue. try individual swapping out all the componets in your chain to isolate the cause.

1) Check all your cable connections & make sure your tubes are seated properly. dont forget to check your headphone cables and power plug.
2) Remove your dac from your chain, test again. Leave the dac out of your chain for the remainder of testing
3) Try with a different source player & different media players on computer & different tracks
4) Try your setup on a different wall plug without any extension cables/surge protectors.
5) If a computer try a different AC cord/adapter (that was what was causing my issue)
6) Try a different amp or try without the amp.
7) Try with different headphones or try swapping the wires for L/R inputs if the noise is louder on one side.

If nothing else is the culprit, then contact Schiit CS & tell them exactly what you already did for troubleshooting


----------



## theblueprint

music alchemist said:


> I'm not going to reveal the insane price I'm (hopefully) getting it for until I've claimed it!




There was a nice fella in classifieds selling one for $250 + shipping. Killer price, but I decided to be good and didn't bite. I shouldn't be spending anymore money right now.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Except I wouldn't be able to trade the DT 880 for any of those... :'(
> 
> But I actually just found a used HE-500 (which retailed for $900) for a lower price than I ever would have expected. Gonna try to make the money for that before someone else snatches it up!


 
 You should really love the HE-500's, what a great sound, the lows reach down and shake one's bones.
 You guys have been very busy since I last looked yesterday, glad nobody fried their ears while fiddling with volume knobs.


----------



## funkymartyn

bretemm said:


> Who uses earbuds? What are the best earbuds to use for magi and modi?
> Thanks,
> Ultimately I'm wanting to get the shure se846 but i have to save up a little more.


 
 Ear bugs with this quality amp I would think not, its better with good headphones ...even the low gain is loud to be honest, that's with the grado sr325i .. don't need much volume on low gain, and then the senn hd 580 ( 600) I use the high gain as there 300 ohms........I would have thought for ear buds its better to get a smaller portable amp like the FiiO e11k, or NX1.....


----------



## cuiter23

funkymartyn said:


> Ear bugs with this quality amp I would think not, its better with good headphones ...even the low gain is loud to be honest, that's with the grado sr325i .. don't need much volume on low gain, and then the senn hd 580 ( 600) I use the high gain as there 300 ohms........I would have thought for ear buds its better to get a smaller portable amp like the FiiO e11k, or NX1.....


 
  
 The Magni 2 has an output impedance of just 0.2ohms it should pair well with sensitive IEMs just make sure you use the low gain. Not sure if the Magni 1 has a gain switch though.


----------



## RRod

cuiter23 said:


> The Magni 2 has an output impedance of just 0.2ohms it should pair well with sensitive IEMs just make sure you use the low gain. Not sure if the Magni 1 has a gain switch though.


 
  
 It doesn't, and the default gain is closer to the high gain on the Magni 2.


----------



## cuiter23

rrod said:


> It doesn't, and the default gain is closer to the high gain on the Magni 2.


 
  
 Ah ic, Magni 2 it is then! I tried pairing my XBA-4s (8ohm impedance) with my Asgard 2 on low gain with no noticeable hiss


----------



## KLJTech

The Asgard 2 sounds great with IEM's. Just sayin'


----------



## money4me247

funkymartyn said:


> Ear bugs with this quality amp I would think not, its better with good headphones ...even the low gain is loud to be honest, that's with the grado sr325i .. don't need much volume on low gain, and then the senn hd 580 ( 600) I use the high gain as there 300 ohms........I would have thought for ear buds its better to get a smaller portable amp like the FiiO e11k, or NX1.....


 
 just depends on the noise floor, sensitivity of the 'ear bugs,' and whether there is a low gain switch when looking at amplifiers. i think the magni 2 will work perfectly fine for them, though, yes generally ear bugs do not require that much power so maybe overkill.


----------



## CH23

money4me247 said:


> just depends on the noise floor, sensitivity of the 'ear bugs,' and whether there is a low gain switch when looking at amplifiers. i think the magni 2 will work perfectly fine for them, though, yes generally ear bugs do not require that much power so maybe overkill.




This is the perfect moment to sell him some stax sr-002's


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> You should really love the HE-500's, what a great sound, the lows reach down and shake one's bones.
> You guys have been very busy since I last looked yesterday, glad nobody fried their ears while fiddling with volume knobs.


 
  
 If anyone buys my DT 880, I will have enough to get it. I should also be able to get a refund for the JVC HA-SZ2000 that I bought, since I remembered that the seller already offered a refund to me, since it's taking weeks to be able to be shipped. And people are buying my CDs, so I have that going for me as well.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> If anyone buys my DT 880, I will have enough to get it. I should also be able to get a refund for the JVC HA-SZ2000 that I bought, since I remembered that the seller already offered a refund to me, since it's taking weeks to be able to be shipped. And people are buying my CDs, so I have that going for me as well.


 
 lol. thought the jvc ha-sz2000 was the bass-monster that you would be keeping even if you got a pair of staxs? what happened??


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> If anyone buys my DT 880, I will have enough to get it. I should also be able to get a refund for the JVC HA-SZ2000 that I bought, since I remembered that the seller already offered a refund to me, since it's taking weeks to be able to be shipped. And people are buying my CDs, so I have that going for me as well.


 
 Once you go Mag Planar there's no go'in back. I remember paying big bucks for the HE-500's and do not regret it as many a fine hour of music has graced my ears with them. They work really well with my Asgard 2 or Magni 1.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> lol. thought the jvc ha-sz2000 was the bass-monster that you would be keeping even if you got a pair of staxs? what happened??


 
  
 A diabolical secret plan that I cannot pass up.


----------



## aqsw

Hey Guys,
 Tried a search but couldn't find instructions on installing uber on bifrost. Is this hard to do? I do have some experience on circuit boards.
 just thinking it might be easier than sending to the states and back.
 Thanks


----------



## StanD

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys,
> Tried a search but couldn't find instructions on installing uber on bifrost. Is this hard to do? I do have some experience on circuit boards.
> just thinking it might be easier than sending to the states and back.
> Thanks


 
 This specific post (link below) should get you started. There's probably more useful information elsewhere in that thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695


----------



## jaywillin

aqsw said:


> Hey Guys,
> Tried a search but couldn't find instructions on installing uber on bifrost. Is this hard to do? I do have some experience on circuit boards.
> just thinking it might be easier than sending to the states and back.
> Thanks


 
 i did my own upgrade, twice, (had the bifrost twice) 
 pretty easy, and i have very little "technical" knowledge , less than novice
 \the hardest part for me was having the source lights line back up with the holes 
 when i was putting the faceplate back on.


----------



## aqsw

stand said:


> This specific post (link below) should get you started. There's probably more useful information elsewhere in that thread.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695




Thanks, 
How did I miss that?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jaywillin said:


> and i have very little "technical" knowledge , less than novice


 
  
 If you are less than novice then I am a barnacle head. I know the gist of how things work but can't for the life of me build anything


----------



## Rem0o

aqsw said:


> Thanks,
> How did I miss that?


 
 Used that guide to do it, it's really easy. Just don't bend the pins and you're good!


----------



## jaywillin

blackenedplague said:


> If you are less than novice then I am a barnacle head. I know the gist of how things work but can't for the life of me build anything


 
 i'm no builder either , i haven't soldered anything since i was a kid playing with my dad's soldering gun, (and getting in trouble for it)
 but i can turn a screw, and unplug a board, and plug one back in, and get a bifrost put back together! i got skills now ! lol


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

jaywillin said:


> i'm no builder either , i haven't soldered anything since i was a kid playing with my dad's soldering gun, (and getting in trouble for it)
> but i can turn a screw, and unplug a board, and plug one back in, and get a bifrost put back together! i got skills now ! lol


 
  
 lol, I tried to build an "audiophile" Altoids amp and got the final lines crossed lol. I won't try again unless a skilled person lends a hand


----------



## Naughtyson

money4me247 said:


> first, is the distortion worse on one side or another? Swap your tube positions and see if the more audible distortion switches positions. If so, you have defective tubes, contact Schiit CS.
> 
> If not, it may be a ground loop issue. try individual swapping out all the componets in your chain to isolate the cause.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you. I will try these one by one to see if the problem can be fixed. 
  
 Since I bought it used, I'm not sure if I can get custom support from Schiit.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Last night I tried out my Lyr as a preamp. I was pleasantly surprised to percieve not only great imaging but I heard sound that appeared to be wider than my speaker location. Very nice with my old Denon


----------



## Naughtyson

money4me247 said:


> first, is the distortion worse on one side or another? Swap your tube positions and see if the more audible distortion switches positions. If so, you have defective tubes, contact Schiit CS.
> 
> If not, it may be a ground loop issue. try individual swapping out all the componets in your chain to isolate the cause.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just tried to take the Tubemonger socket saver out and installed the tubes back. The noise reduced a lot, only a tiny circuit noise left. So looks like it's the socket saver cased the problem. I can enjoy my musics now. 
  
 I need to buy another socket saver. Any suggestion?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I'm really interested too since I am going to buy my first socket saver


----------



## john57

naughtyson said:


> I just tried to take the Tubemonger socket saver out and installed the tubes back. The noise reduced a lot, only a tiny circuit noise left. So looks like it's the socket saver cased the problem. I can enjoy my musics now.
> 
> I need to buy another socket saver. Any suggestion?


 
 Just get the plainest and cheapest socket saver is what I use.


----------



## bretemm

Thanks, But again, what would be some ideal earbuds that would be good to use? 
I'm looking at shure se835 but those are a little too much right now but then I'm looking at sennheiser, I think I might go with the sennheiser ie80? Are those good?


----------



## ThurstonX

naughtyson said:


> I just tried to take the Tubemonger socket saver out and installed the tubes back. The noise reduced a lot, only a tiny circuit noise left. So looks like it's the socket saver cased the problem. I can enjoy my musics now.
> 
> I need to buy another socket saver. Any suggestion?


 
  
 You should contact Tubemonger.  They are usually *eager* to deal with possible problems with their socket savers.  When I thought one of mine was defective I contacted them and was immediately offered a new pair, as they wanted my pair back so they could study them.  My problem was a PYST cable (also dealt with expeditiously by Schiit), but I know of at least one other Head-Fier with a similar experience with Tubemonger.  It's in your best interest to contact them.  Maybe they'd be willing to swap them for their new model.  I've got both types, and they've both been rock solid.  Since you've spent the money, may as well take another shot via an exchange.


----------



## Defiant00

mgavin said:


> Yes it is much better on high gain mode. BUT, I still don't think that it goes so high that it'll hurt my ears. Obviously I would dial it back from there. What do you guys think?


 
  
 What's your source? Are you using a DAC, straight out of your computer, your phone, something else?


----------



## Music Alchemist

bretemm said:


> Thanks, But again, what would be some ideal earbuds that would be good to use?
> I'm looking at shure se835 but those are a little too much right now but then I'm looking at sennheiser, I think I might go with the sennheiser ie80? Are those good?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-335-iems-compared-sennheiser-momentum-in-ear-added-03-26-15-p-1050


----------



## Pirakaphile

In a bit of a fudge here, though I settled on the Lyr2 to be my end-game amp by the end of this year when I get it, I'm torn now between that and the Asgard2. I know that the Asgard has more solid performance (lower distortion, noise floor, stuff) than Lyr but I don't know about how it sounds in comparison. I keep reading good things about the Lyr, but 'upgrade tubes' comes up in almost every intelligent review or opinion. Tubes aren't exactly all over the place and easily affordable, so I'm getting weary of the Lyr and starting to do research on the Asgard. Do the two amps sound really different, and what do they sound like in comparison with eachother? Also, which one has closer to end-game performance without getting too close to analytical? 
  
 I'm also going to have to go through the whole Lyr tube rolling thread, aren't I?


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> In a bit of a fudge here, though I settled on the Lyr2 to be my end-game amp by the end of this year when I get it, I'm torn now between that and the Asgard2. I know that the Asgard has more solid performance (lower distortion, noise floor, stuff) than Lyr but I don't know about how it sounds in comparison. I keep reading good things about the Lyr, but 'upgrade tubes' comes up in almost every intelligent review or opinion. Tubes aren't exactly all over the place and easily affordable, so I'm getting weary of the Lyr and starting to do research on the Asgard. Do the two amps sound really different, and what do they sound like in comparison with eachother? Also, which one has closer to end-game performance without getting too close to analytical?
> 
> I'm also going to have to go through the whole Lyr tube rolling thread, aren't I?



Hi I own both amps, and if you want a end game type of performance, then get the lyr2. You can find relatively inexpensive tubes for your lyr2. You should, contact Bob, @rb2013 a fine gentleman who, can possibly help hook you up with marvellous vokshods NOS tubes. Go to the lyr tube rolling threads and look around. One can get better r tubes, than the stock, without going down the rabbit hole.  If I ever won the lottery, I would happily do a swan dive into that hole, and embrace the tube addict within


----------



## Pirakaphile

reddog said:


> Hi I own both amps, and if you want a end game type of performance, then get the lyr2. You can find relatively inexpensive tubes for your lyr2. You should, contact Bob, @rb2013 a fine gentleman who, can possibly help hook you up with marvellous vokshods NOS tubes. Go to the lyr tube rolling threads and look around. One can get better r tubes, than the stock, without going down the rabbit hole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm just afraid I'll end up getting a Lyr and I look to find tubes and the only good ones are $400 or something obscene. I've heard a bunch about those Voskhod rockets, and it seems like those are going to be the ones I'll like, but I'm hoping I'll find more info on all of it.


----------



## ThurstonX

pirakaphile said:


> I'm just afraid I'll end up getting a Lyr and I look to find tubes and the only good ones are $400 or something obscene. I've heard a bunch about those Voskhod rockets, and it seems like those are going to be the ones I'll like, but I'm hoping I'll find more info on all of it.


 
  
 Absolutely no need to spend that much on tubes.  What your limit is only you can answer.  You will have to do research and learn what's what, but there are plenty of good deals on eBay, and the folks in the tube rolling thread are quite willing to lend a hand with questions.  Just don't expect them to make decisions for you, though I suppose if that's what you wanted, some would be happy to spend your money for you


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> I'm just afraid I'll end up getting a Lyr and I look to find tubes and the only good ones are $400 or something obscene. I've heard a bunch about those Voskhod rockets, and it seems like those are going to be the ones I'll like, but I'm hoping I'll find more info on all of it.



Ask lots of questions and read people reviews. The next tubes I get will be the voskkhod rockets. I fell down the whole and spent 200$ on Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. Those tubes are bloody fantastic but I feel bad using them all the time. Happy rolling.


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> I'm just afraid I'll end up getting a Lyr and I look to find tubes and the only good ones are $400 or something obscene. I've heard a bunch about those Voskhod rockets, and it seems like those are going to be the ones I'll like, but I'm hoping I'll find more info on all of it.


 
  
 According to what I've read from others in this thread, with the stock tubes it sounds just as neutral as their other amps. So if you (or I as well, since I have my eye on the Lyr 2 as something to perhaps buy months from now) want something other than a neutral sound, tube rolling would be the way to go, but otherwise, not really necessary, unless tube rolling also involves getting different sound signatures with the same frequency response -- which would surprise me.
  
 I have to wonder what benefits there are to mechanical modifications that equalization cannot accomplish.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Reddog,
You have Lyr and Ragnarok?


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> In a bit of a fudge here, though I settled on the Lyr2 to be my end-game amp by the end of this year when I get it, I'm torn now between that and the Asgard2. I know that the Asgard has more solid performance (lower distortion, noise floor, stuff) than Lyr but I don't know about how it sounds in comparison. I keep reading good things about the Lyr, but 'upgrade tubes' comes up in almost every intelligent review or opinion. Tubes aren't exactly all over the place and easily affordable, so I'm getting weary of the Lyr and starting to do research on the Asgard. Do the two amps sound really different, and what do they sound like in comparison with eachother? Also, which one has closer to end-game performance without getting too close to analytical?
> 
> I'm also going to have to go through the whole Lyr tube rolling thread, aren't I?


 
 So what is it about the Magni + HE-500 that falls short for you?


----------



## Pirakaphile

thurstonx said:


> Absolutely no need to spend that much on tubes.  What your limit is only you can answer.  You will have to do research and learn what's what, but there are plenty of good deals on eBay, and the folks in the tube rolling thread are quite willing to lend a hand with questions.  Just don't expect them to make decisions for you, though I suppose if that's what you wanted, some would be happy to spend your money for you


 
 I'm definitely looking to be led around on a leash, it'll be a change from what I usually do. ;p Probably $200, maybe less'll be my price range, and I'll only get a few pairs.
  
  


reddog said:


> Ask lots of questions and read people reviews. The next tubes I get will be the voskkhod rockets. I fell down the whole and spent 200$ on Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes. Those tubes are bloody fantastic but I feel bad using them all the time. Happy rolling.


 
 Sounds like you're having yourself a good time. Give into it, become a tube hoarder!


----------



## Pirakaphile

music alchemist said:


> According to what I've read from others in this thread, with the stock tubes it sounds just as neutral as their other amps. So if you (or I as well, since I have my eye on the Lyr 2 as something to perhaps buy months from now) want something other than a neutral sound, tube rolling would be the way to go, but otherwise, not really necessary, unless tube rolling also involves getting different sound signatures with the same frequency response -- which would surprise me.
> 
> I have to wonder what benefits there are to mechanical modifications that equalization cannot accomplish.


 
 I like neutrality, but I also like my music to be exciting as well. I'll learn more about what tubes to to the frequency response when I look it up. 
  
  


stand said:


> So what is it about the Magni + HE-500 that falls short for you?


 
 Nothing's really falling short other than the lack of preamp outs and gain switch. I've never actually heard another amp, so I don't know what anything else sounds like, but I figured if I'm going to be upgrading I might as well throw in the extra power and control over the volume knob, as well as gain and preamp outs when I do so. Besides, I'm getting into speakers next.


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> Reddog,
> You have Lyr and Ragnarok?


 
  
 Look on his profile. He has more than that.
  


stand said:


> So what is it about the Magni + HE-500 that falls short for you?


 
  
 By the way, someone told me this yesterday about the HE-500:
  


> The only thing I think I need to mention is, your amp is not powerful at all to drive well HE-500. You really need a good amp with huge current. I tried Schiit Lyr, which was great. Also the ALO PanAm is another great matchl.


 


> I don't know the calculation but the power is not the only thing that matters. You need right power for details, treble, bass etc. Lyr did great job, I don't know about Magni.


 
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Music Alchemist

pirakaphile said:


> I like neutrality, but I also like my music to be exciting as well. I'll learn more about what tubes to to the frequency response when I look it up.


 
  
 If it *only* changes the frequency response, a free parametric equalizer should be able to do the same thing. But I think some tubes do more than that.


----------



## mgavin

I would get the lyr!


----------



## StanD

Quote:


music alchemist said:


> By the way, someone told me this yesterday about the HE-500:
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ...


 
 If you do the math the Magni has more than enough clean power to hurt your hearing. There are far too many myths about power requirements that are excessive and thus are never used and cannot contibute one iota to SQ. Thus such claimed "power reserves" are useless and part of the ongoing anecdotes that spin on the forums.
 I'm sure you remember the string of posts on DR and how many dBSPL one really needs. For some folks, imagination rules over all sense.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I thibk I'll go with the t10i but I'm not sure yet 





music alchemist said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-335-iems-compared-sennheiser-momentum-in-ear-added-03-26-15-p-1050


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> I'm definitely looking to be led around on a leash, it'll be a change from what I usually do. ;p Probably $200, maybe less'll be my price range, and I'll only get a few pairs.
> 
> 
> Sounds like you're having yourself a good time. Give into it, become a tube hoarder!



I would but I just preordered MrSpeakers ETHER headphones and planning on getting the Yggdrasil, soon too. I will get some tubes, in November, to celebrate my birthday.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> If you do the math the Magni has more than enough clean power to hurt your hearing. There are far too many myths about power requirements that are excessive and thus are never used and cannot contibute one iota to SQ. Thus such claimed "power reserves" are useless and part of the ongoing anecdotes that spin on the forums.
> I'm sure you remember the string of posts on DR and how many dBSPL one really needs. For some folks, imagination rules over all sense.


 
  
 Yeah, I was the one who sparked that conversation here, if I recall.
  
 I just calculated the power, voltage, and current requirements for the HE-500:
  

  
 I don't know how relevant voltage and current is. Schiit doesn't seem to release those specs for their amps.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Yeah, I was the one who sparked that conversation here, if I recall.
> 
> I just calculated the power, voltage, and current requirements for the HE-500:
> 
> ...


 
 If the amp can reach the spec'd power at the spec'd impedance then it has to be able to supply both required the voltage and current or else it won't reach the power as the they are all related.
 P = E2/R
 P = I2*R
 P = I*E
 Easy math.


----------



## Matro5

pirakaphile said:


> Nothing's really falling short other than the lack of preamp outs and gain switch. I've never actually heard another amp, so I don't know what anything else sounds like, but I figured if I'm going to be upgrading I might as well throw in the extra power and control over the volume knob, as well as gain and preamp outs when I do so. Besides, I'm getting into speakers next.


 
  
 This is precisely why I went from Vali to Lyr 2 - preamp outputs for speakers, more control over volume ( avoiding imbalance at low levels ) and the ability to tube roll at some point. I also liked the look of the Lyr 2 better and consider that a "feature" although I'm sure lots of people don't care about that. Been very happy with the upgrade. 
  
 I'm gong to try and spend some time acclimating myself to the stock tubes before I dive too deep into the Rollers' thread.


----------



## Music Alchemist

For some reason, this link lists different power requirements for the HE-500 than I calculated: 1,888 mW for 120 dB, 597 mW for 115 dB, and 189 mW for 110 dB.


----------



## Pirakaphile

reddog said:


> I would but I just preordered MrSpeakers ETHER headphones and planning on getting the Yggdrasil, soon too. I will get some tubes, in November, to celebrate my birthday.


 
 Yeah, I saw those there and damn do they look sexy.  I'll look forward to reading the reviews, and hopefully I'll be able to either borrow one from someone on the forums or get one used. I'm done looking for headphones for myself, I just want to experience others and see what they have to offer.


----------



## Pirakaphile

matro5 said:


> This is precisely why I went from Vali to Lyr 2 - preamp outputs for speakers, more control over volume ( avoiding imbalance at low levels ) and the ability to tube roll at some point. I also liked the look of the Lyr 2 better and consider that a "feature" although I'm sure lots of people don't care about that. Been very happy with the upgrade.
> 
> I'm gong to try and spend some time acclimating myself to the stock tubes before I dive too deep into the Rollers' thread.


 
 That's what I'll do as well, I'll wait to tube roll after I've spent a year or two with the stocks. I've got so little money and so many things to buy that bits and pieces like tubes'll have to wait!


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> I'm just afraid I'll end up getting a Lyr and I look to find tubes and the only good ones are $400 or something obscene. I've heard a bunch about those Voskhod rockets, and it seems like those are going to be the ones I'll like, but I'm hoping I'll find more info on all of it.




the Voskhod rockets are like $80-$150-$200 for a matched pair from the prices ive seen on em over the past year of random checking.


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> For some reason, this link lists different power requirements for the HE-500 than I calculated: 1,888 mW for 120 dB, 597 mW for 115 dB, and 189 mW for 110 dB.


 
 Here's what I get:
 1.26W for 120 dBSPL
 398.3 mW for 115 dB SPL
 125.97 mW for 110 dBSPL
 All of this is at 38 Ohms with an 89 dBSPL @ 1 mW Spec. as per Hifiman.


----------



## Pirakaphile

money4me247 said:


> the Voskhod rockets are like $80-$150-$200 for a matched pair from the prices ive seen on em over the past year of random checking.


 
 So it could be pretty affordable, or something I have to save up for a few months. Grr.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> Here's what I get:
> 1.26W for 120 dBSPL
> 398.3 mW for 115 dB SPL
> 125.97 mW for 110 dBSPL
> All of this is at 38 Ohms with an 89 dBSPL @ 1 mW Spec. as per Hifiman.


 
  
 Yes, I got the same specs as you, shown in the images I posted.
  
 I think it's because some of HiFiMAN's headphones (like the HE-6) are a little different. InnerFidelity talked about it.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> So it could be pretty affordable, or something I have to save up for a few months. Grr.


 
 really just depends on if you want the "legit" years or just any one is fine for you. kinda reminds me of wine lol with like the talk of xyz year is better vs zyx year.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> really just depends on if you want the "legit" years or just any one is fine for you. kinda reminds me of wine lol with like the talk of xyz year is better vs zyx year.


 
  

  
 By the way, the reason I canceled my JVC HA-SZ2000 order was to be able to afford the HE-500. I will probably get the Sennheiser HD 700 soon as well. Pretty psyched to be able to get headphones that were originally $900 and $1,000 with the resources I already have! (I can get the SZ2K anytime in the future.)


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You might want to audition the HD700's before you order them. I found everything about them great except for its treble which to me was a bit grating.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> By the way, the reason I canceled my JVC HA-SZ2000 order was to be able to afford the HE-500. I will probably get the Sennheiser HD 700 soon as well. Pretty psyched to be able to get headphones that were originally $900 and $1,000 with the resources I already have! (I can get the SZ2K anytime in the future.)


 
 lol ya, but they haven't been retailed at that kinda pricing for a long time. most headphones are also overpriced upon initial release. prices often fluctuate. if you are patient enough to wait it out, you can always snipe a nice deal on headphones. think i only bought one or two headphones at full price.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> You might want to audition the HD700's before you order them. I found everything about them great except for its treble which to me was a bit grating.


 
  
 Can't pass up the awesome opportunities I'm presented with, because I would have to invest far more resources to get them otherwise.
  
 I'm a hardcore headphone freak. I just buy 'em and deal with it (return, sell or trade) if I don't like 'em.
  
 I'm hoping that any problems I have with future headphones can be solved (at least partially) with EQ.


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> Can't pass up the awesome opportunities I'm presented with, because I would have to invest far more resources to get them otherwise.
> 
> I'm a hardcore headphone freak. I just buy 'em and deal with it (return, sell or trade) if I don't like 'em.
> 
> I'm hoping that any problems I have with future headphones can be solved (at least partially) with EQ.



I am a noobie, I have not touched a equalizer in many, many years. I might have to get one and try it out.


----------



## money4me247

reddog said:


> I am a noobie, I have not touched a equalizer in many, many years. I might have to get one and try it out.


 
 can always software EQ for free!


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> Can't pass up the awesome opportunities I'm presented with, because I would have to invest far more resources to get them otherwise.
> 
> I'm a hardcore headphone freak. I just buy 'em and deal with it (return, sell or trade) if I don't like 'em.
> 
> I'm hoping that any problems I have with future headphones can be solved (at least partially) with EQ.


 
 I learned not to buy headphones with a flawed sound that irritates me, as "You can't beat a dead horse and expect it to get up and run."
 Luckily I live near NYC and have worked there and was able to audition lots of stuff. I'd pass on the HD700's, sacrifice my wallet to the gods of audio and get a pair of HD800's. Of course some time might pass so one could prop up their wallet before the gauntlet.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> I am a noobie, I have not touched a equalizer in many, many years. I might have to get one and try it out.


 
  
 Do it the right way:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/615417/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-advanced-tutorial-in-progress
  


stand said:


> I learned not to buy headphones with a flawed sound that irritates me, as "You can't beat a dead horse and expect it to get up and run."
> Luckily I live near NYC and have worked there and was able to audition lots of stuff. I'd pass on the HD700's, sacrifice my wallet to the gods of audio and get a pair of HD800's. Of course some time might pass so one could prop up their wallet before the gauntlet.


 
  
 The HD 800 is a headphone that I would probably only get _after_ the SR-009. lol


----------



## StanD

music alchemist said:


> The HD 800 is a headphone that I would probably only get _after_ the SR-009. lol


 
 Let us know when you've completed tunneling into Fort Knox.


----------



## mgavin

Those headphones are so ugly too.


----------



## madwolfa

kljtech said:


> The Asgard 2 sounds great with IEM's. Just sayin'


 
  
 Can confirm, even the most sensitive ones like SE846.


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> Do it the right way:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/413900/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/587703/how-to-equalize-your-headphones-a-tutorial-part-2
> ...


 
  
 How to equalize your headphone - a tutorial:
  
 Step 1.  Buy another headphone.
  
 Done.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> Let us know when you've completed tunneling into Fort Knox.


 
  
 hehe. If I'm going to spend over $1,000 on a headphone, I will have to take care of other things first, like taxes, moving into a new place, property insurance, perhaps a security system, and so on...so by the time I can afford a $1K+ headphone, I could also afford a $3K headphone + low-end 'stat amp.
  


madwolfa said:


> How to equalize your headphone - a tutorial:
> 
> Step 1.  Buy another headphone.
> 
> Done.


 
  
 Those guides are about how to make your headphones as close to neutral as possible. No headphone is perfectly neutral, even after EQ. I agree that buying different headphones is necessary for different types of sound, but EQ is essential for any serious audiophile.


----------



## David Aldrich

madwolfa said:


> How to equalize your headphone - a tutorial:
> 
> Step 1.  Buy another headphone.
> 
> Done.


 

 So much of this, a headphone is going to be damn close to its characteristic sound on any amp that isn't specifically designed to color the signal.
  
 That being said my T-70s sounded better on the Ragnarok than on anything I've ever tried them with. Which means I need one.
  
 Actually they sound damn good out of an old Technics AM/FM receiver from the 80/90s.


----------



## madwolfa

music alchemist said:


> Those guides are about how to make your headphones as close to neutral as possible. No headphone is perfectly neutral, even after EQ. I agree that buying different headphones is necessary for different types of sound, but EQ is essential for any serious audiophile.


 
  
 I guess I'm not a serious audophile then, ha.


----------



## Music Alchemist

madwolfa said:


> I guess I'm not a serious audophile then, ha.


 
  
 It's so much work to be serious! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If you look at those threads I linked to...it looks like a ridiculous amount of effort.


----------



## Music Alchemist

stand said:


> If the amp can reach the spec'd power at the spec'd impedance then it has to be able to supply both required the voltage and current or else it won't reach the power as the they are all related.
> P = E2/R
> P = I2*R
> P = I*E
> Easy math.


 
  
 Someone just told me this:
  


> No that's not true.
> Power = voltage x current
> Voltage can be high while current is low and it would have power X.
> Voltage can be low while current is high and it would have power X.
> If an op-amp is current-limited, which is likely to happen, then your headphone would just be receiving more voltage instead of current from what I understand.


----------



## RRod

music alchemist said:


> Someone just told me this:


 
  
 If the power *and* impedance are both given, that fixes both the voltage and the current.


----------



## ThurstonX

madwolfa said:


> I guess I'm not a serious audophile then, ha.


 
  
 LOL, me neither.  Except with bootlegs.  They almost always need EQing.


----------



## lonewolfe2015

Just wanted to thank those that gave me the suggestions earlier and recommended I keep it simple with the M&M stack. I grabbed a pair of the HD650's during the Amazon sale to keep with my budget but I've got the HE400i's on my list to check for any price drops over the coming months. When I first plugged my HD650's into my laptop before my Schiit had arrived I thought it was impressive and opened up my music a lot (especially having never had open cans). Now with the DAC/Amp combo I can't go back to listening through my laptop, it sounds so muddied and dull.
  
 I can't imagine what it will be like as I progress over the next few years into new equipment. Looks like I'm hooked.
  
 Would anyone recommend looking into finding some speaker wire to rca adaptors and grabbing a sys for my bookshelf speakers? They're already using a dedicated low-end amp which is sufficient, but I'm sure this stack would sound better, especially adding a DAC to the mix.


----------



## money4me247

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Would anyone recommend looking into finding some speaker wire to rca adaptors and grabbing a sys for my bookshelf speakers? They're already using a dedicated low-end amp which is sufficient, but I'm sure this stack would sound better, especially adding a DAC to the mix.


 
 sys works the other way around. really for x2 sources into one amp. (x2 input rca with x1 output rca)
  
 for the other way around, the magni 2 uber already has a preamp out. maybe you can just upgrade. if your speakers already have an amp, you can get rca splitters for your dac.


----------



## lonewolfe2015

money4me247 said:


> sys works the other way around. really for x2 sources into one amp. (x2 input rca with x1 output rca)
> 
> for the other way around, the magni 2 uber already has a preamp out. maybe you can just upgrade. if your speakers already have an amp, you can get rca splitters for your dac.


 
  
 Fortunately I grabbed both in the Uber variant, should have been more specific.
  
 Also the cheap lepai amp powering the bookshelf has an RCA input (using the aux from the laptop to it). So would leaving the bookshelf to cheap amp and then grabbing another pair of RCA to RCA and hooking up the Magni 2 Uber to it work? It'd end up being Laptop --> Modi 2 Uber --> Magni 2 Uber --> Lepai Amp --> Polk Bookshelf
  
 I have no idea how it would affect the quality going from a good amp to a cheap amp. But it would get the DAC in there to clean up the source...


----------



## money4me247

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Fortunately I grabbed both in the Uber variant, should have been more specific.
> 
> Also the cheap lepai amp powering the bookshelf has an RCA input (using the aux from the laptop to it). So would leaving the bookshelf to cheap amp and then grabbing another pair of RCA to RCA and hooking up the Magni 2 Uber to it work? It'd end up being Laptop --> Modi 2 Uber --> Magni 2 Uber --> Lepai Amp --> Polk Bookshelf
> 
> I have no idea how it would affect the quality going from a good amp to a cheap amp. But it would get the DAC in there to clean up the source...


 
 should remove the other amplifier from the chain for best results. amplifiers can have coloration & distortion so when you double amp, your sound quality is limited by the worst component in your chain. what kind of input does your bookshelf speaker have?


----------



## Music Alchemist

rrod said:


> If the power *and* impedance are both given, that fixes both the voltage and the current.


 
  
 Care to elaborate?


----------



## lonewolfe2015

money4me247 said:


> should remove the other amplifier from the chain for best results. amplifiers can have coloration & distortion so when you double amp, your sound quality is limited by the worst component in your chain. what kind of input does your bookshelf speaker have?


 

 Just speaker wire, they're nothing too special or expensive so I won't go out of my way to bridge them in. But if I can make it work with a relatively cheap purchase I'd be curious what the best way is.
  
http://smile.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00192KF12


----------



## money4me247

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Just speaker wire, they're nothing too special or expensive so I won't go out of my way to bridge them in. But if I can make it work with a relatively cheap purchase I'd be curious what the best way is.
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00192KF12


 
 I think something like this would work, though I never tried it myself.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/IEC-Speaker-Wire-Male-Cable/dp/B003U44LA8


----------



## David Aldrich

If you're talking about simple DC resistance then the following provide all you need. Transducers are a little bit more complicated using AC but for basic power handling you can get close enough.
  
 V - Voltage (Volts)
 I - Current (Amperes)
 P - Power (Watts)
  
 V = I*R
  
 That's the basic form.
  
 P = V*I
  
 P = I^2 * R
  
 You can derive any value if you know the other two.


----------



## Rem0o

If a device is current limited, on a given load, the voltage will be limited so V =  I_limited * R.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Latest comment, from a PM. Thought I'd share:
  


> When you said
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not a math person at all, but some of you may appreciate this discussion.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Ive had the science and math and calculated that the 183 mw from my Oppo should have been fine for my 90 db at 1 mw HiFIMan HE-560. But then at what frequency is that 90 db measured? Music is not a 1 KHz tone.
In reality it cannot reproduce the sudden wallop on a tympani without compressing it. It does not sound distorted. I thought it acceptable. Then I plugged my phones into my Denon Reciever- and realized I was missing bass and dynamics. Fast forward to Amazion sending me the Lyr instead of Mjolnir. After break in I realized the Denon was also compressing-as compared to the Lyr! That same Tympani wallop which sounded OK on the Oppo, and more impact full on the Denon- made me Jump with the Lyr


----------



## David Aldrich

The response characteristics of an amp/headphone system is much more complicated than just DC resistance power measurements. Often headphone impedance is specified at DC and can change drastically as frequency changes. If you run into current or voltage limits you'll start losing sections of the frequency spectrum depending on the impedance curve.


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> Ive had the science and math and calculated that the 183 mw from my Oppo should have been fine for my 90 db at 1 mw HiFIMan HE-560. But then at what frequency is that 90 db measured? Music is not a 1 KHz tone.
> In reality it cannot reproduce the sudden wallop on a tympani without compressing it. It does not sound distorted. I thought it acceptable. Then I plugged my phones into my Denon Reciever- and realized I was missing bass and dynamics. Fast forward to Amazion sending me the Lyr instead of Mjolnir. After break in I realized the Denon was also compressing-as compared to the Lyr! That same Tympani wallop which sounded OK on the Oppo, and more impact full on the Denon- made me Jump with the Lyr


 
  
 Are you sure the dynamic peak was at 90 dB, though? It could end up being louder.
  
 Also, are you sure you were listening at the same SPL levels when comparing the amps?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

The dynamic peak is way above 90db. I should measure it.
For DSD or other "Hi Res" recordings the dynamic range can be quite large. My listening level was averaging 70 db


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Exactly, although impedance tends to be quite constant for Orthodynamic/ Planar Magnetics. Such as my HiFIMan He 560. Not so for dynamic HP or speakers. As you say, it's not that simple and likely I am far from knowing all the factors!

quote name="David Aldrich" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9600#post_11449210"]

The response characteristics of an amp/headphone system is much more complicated than just DC resistance power measurements. Often headphone impedance is specified at DC and can chance drastically as frequency changes. If you run into current or voltage limits you'll start losing sections of the frequency spectrum depending on the impedance curve.
[/quote]


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> The dynamic peak is way above 90db. I should measure it.
> For DSD or other "Hi Res" recordings the dynamic range can be quite large. My listening level was averaging 70 db


 
  
 Yeah, you'll need to get all the facts straight before making a final assessment of the situation. Let us know what you find out!
  
 By the way, 16-bit has more than enough dynamic range to handle all recordings in existence. The only reason some high-res downloads sound different is because they were derived from a different master. When you convert the files to lossless (or even lossy 256 kbps AAC) 16-bit / 44.1 kHz, they are indistinguishable from the originals.


----------



## bretemm

Would the new modi with the coaxl input be good to use mainly with a marantz radio? 
I recently found out testing inbetween my Apple TV optical audio and Marantz sr5009 headphone jack, the Schiit was better, and I've been wanting to also listen to the radio with earbuds, but, can't reach. 
So would a coaxl cable with the new modi work? 
Thanks


----------



## David Aldrich

You'd need the Modi 2 Über to interface over Coax S/PDIF.
  
 Which amp are you using?


----------



## StanD

> stand said:
> 
> 
> > If the amp can reach the spec'd power at the spec'd impedance then it has to be able to supply both required the voltage and current or else it won't reach the power as the they are all related.
> ...


 
 Um, What do you mean by "No that's not true?"
 P = Power
 I = Current
 E = Voltage
 Those are standard identifiers,
 So _P = I*E_ is the same as_ Power = voltage x current_
  
 Also your assumption about opamps is flawed, an opamp is both current and voltage limited. It is voltage limited by the power supply (and the opamp's output stage voltage drop) as well as by it's supply voltage limits (spec). Likewise it is limited in its output current capacity, also specified. It also has power dissipation limits. Exceed any of these limits and you will experience clipping. Also temperature plays a role in specs. So if you exceed the opamp's current limits you will not get more voltage instead. The voltage is determined by the gain and constrained by the limits of the opamp/circuit.


----------



## David Aldrich

stand said:


> Exceed any of these limits and you will experience clipping.


 
 Or sploding, that happens to, or melting your solder joints, and then catching fire. Schiit happens.


----------



## StanD

david aldrich said:


> Or sploding, that happens to, or melting your solder joints, and then catching fire. Schiit happens.


 
 Well flush my buffers, that be some hot Schiit.


----------



## bretemm

I'm using the last Schiit models of the modi and magi, so would the coaxl input make it so I could connect it by coaxl to my stereo? 





david aldrich said:


> You'd need the Modi 2 Über to interface over Coax S/PDIF.
> 
> Which amp are you using?


----------



## Music Alchemist

bretemm said:


> I'm using the last Schiit models of the modi and magi, so would the coaxl input make it so I could connect it by coaxl to my stereo?


 
  
 As long as your stereo has a connection for either coaxial S/PDIF or TOSLINK S/PDIF.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> I'm using the last Schiit models of the modi and magi, so would the coaxl input make it so I could connect it by coaxl to my stereo?


 
 Your stereo has a coax SPIDF input? That would mean that your stereo already has a DAC, no telling if it's worth a Schiit.
 Somehow I doubt that your stereo has a DPIDF input, I could be wrong as some do, Do not confuse this with your RCA line input jacks,
 This would serve the same function as the Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well couldn't I just plug it into the headphone jack? I don't know if my Marantz sr5009 has a "output" coaxl, it only has a input optical audio 





stand said:


> Your stereo has a coax SPIDF input? That would mean that your stereo already has a DAC, no telling if it's worth a Schiit.
> Somehow I doubt that your stereo has a DPIDF input, I could be wrong as some do, Do not confuse this with your RCA line input jacks,
> This would serve the same function as the Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, well couldn't I just plug it into the headphone jack? I don't know if my Marantz sr5009 has a "output" coaxl, it only has a input optical audio


 
 What is your digital source?
 For example you could take your computer digital output being USB or SPIDF (optical or coax) to the Modi 2 Uber and from there an RCA stereo interconnect to a Magni 2 Uber and anpther RCA interconnect from the Magni's preamp out to your Marantz line input (aux).
  
 I just took a peek at your Marantz.It has it's own DAC with both coax and optical inputs. 
 It also says in the overview, "On the front panel, there's a convenient USB port that lets you stream tunes from your iPod®, iPod touch, or iPad and charge it at the same time. You can also listen to MP3 and WMA tracks from a USB or NAS device."
 The USB port is not listed in the specs so I can't tell if it's good for USB Audio or is just used to read files. I suspect that it can do both, read files and do USB Audio form an iDevice with a CCK cable. If that's the case it might even do Android or a PC.


----------



## tafens

Received my M&M 2 stack recently (both Ubers, with the PYST RCA cables). They both look and sound fantastic with my HD590s.



Compared to my previous DAC/amp (a NuForce uDAC2) this pile of Schiit sounds more musical and detailed, tighter bass - it just ups everything. 

Music Alchemist: Earlier in this thread (or maybe it was another Schiit-thread, possibly, I've been trying to catch up on things after deciding on and ordering my M&Ms), you wrote about the HD590s, but I didn't catch your thoughts about them combined with the M&M? I think the combination sounds great, but I haven't got much experience with any other headphone.

What headphone would be the next substantial step up in SQ from them using the M&M?


----------



## bretemm

My digital source is just my optical audio from my Apple TV to the Schiit, but, Schiit is better then the headphone jack on my marantz , so I'm just wanting to have it so I can use it with my radio as well, so 
"Marantz to Schiit " but, if the new modi 2? If the coaxl input would work with just plugging that into the headphone jack on the marantz? It dosnt have allot of outputs, 





stand said:


> What is your digital source?
> For example you could take your computer digital output being USB or SPIDF (optical or coax) to the Modi 2 Uber and from there an RCA stereo interconnect to a Magni 2 Uber and anpther RCA interconnect from the Magni's preamp out to your Marantz line input (aux).
> 
> I just took a peek at your Marantz.It has it's own DAC with both coax and optical inputs.
> ...


----------



## Music Alchemist

tafens said:


> Earlier in this thread (or maybe it was another Schiit-thread, possibly, I've been trying to catch up on things after deciding on and ordering my M&Ms), you wrote about the HD590s, but I didn't catch your thoughts about them combined with the M&M? I think the combination sounds great, but I haven't got much experience with any other headphone.
> 
> What headphone would be the next substantial step up in SQ from them using the M&M?


 
  
 I suspected that something was wrong with the HD 590 I had. It sounded fine enough with acoustic music, but with everything else, it sounded extremely muffled, like I was listening to music from outside a building. All the reviews talked about how it was bright, detailed, and exciting, but it sounded the opposite to me, whether amped or unamped.
  
 I'm actually getting a Sennheiser HD 700 very soon. (Then a HiFiMAN HE-500, STAX SR-207, and JVC HA-SZ2000 later.)


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> My digital source is just my optical audio from my Apple TV to the Schiit, but, Schiit is better then the headphone jack on my marantz , so I'm just wanting to have it so I can use it with my radio as well, so
> "Marantz to Schiit " but, if the new modi 2? If the coaxl input would work with just plugging that into the headphone jack on the marantz? It dosnt have allot of outputs,


 
 A coax (SPDIF) input does not plug into a headphone jack. The coax is digital. Why Marantz to Schiit?


----------



## bretemm

Because I want to listen to my headphone and just relax in my bed when I don't want to blast music to the "whole house", and also, as far as the headphone jack, Schiit is better then the marantz headphone jack. 
Plus it's too far away from my bed so, I want to somehow get my Schiit to work with the radio, not just my Apple TV 





stand said:


> A coax (SPDIF) input does not plug into a headphone jack. The coax is digital. Why Marantz to Schiit?


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Because I want to listen to my headphone and just relax in my bed when I don't want to blast music to the "whole house", and also, as far as the headphone jack, Schiit is better then the marantz headphone jack.
> Plus it's too far away from my bed so, I want to somehow get my Schiit to work with the radio, not just my Apple TV


 
 Then you probably want to take the Marantz's Analog L&R outputs to the Magni inputs.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so the new magni wouldn't be a better choice? 





stand said:


> Then you probably want to take the Marantz's Analog L&R outputs to the Magni inputs.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, so the new magni wouldn't be a better choice?


 
 Any Magni will do fine.


----------



## rovopio

i'm reporting in to say magni 2 uber works fine with my he-400i in terms of powering them. I don't lose anything powering this from the 2 uber against the WA fireflies.
  
 Maybe the fireflies are indeed better but, nobody (me) is not losing any sleep from powering the 400i from my magni 2 uber. Also, the magni 2 uber pairs really well with the sr325e. I think in general the magni 2 uber just pairs well with either warm-ish headphones, or rolled-off trebles headphones.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Quick! Should I go with a Fostex T50RP (with mod kit) or modded Grado SR-60? I'm leaning towards the Fostex, because I've heard good things about how it scales with the mods. Probably getting one of these in exchange for an old laptop.


----------



## bigalila

T50RP all the way.


----------



## Music Alchemist

bigalila said:


> T50RP all the way.


 
 That's what I was thinkin'!


----------



## hodgjy

bigalila said:


> T50RP all the way.


 
 I agree with one caveat. Of all the headphones I own, these are the only ones I need to equalize. I boost the bass and I turn down the 1 khz range to reduce the honk and shout.


----------



## bigalila

hodgjy said:


> I agree with one caveat. Of all the headphones I own, these are the only ones I need to equalize. I boost the bass and I turn down the 1 khz range to reduce the honk and shout.


 

 Agreed, the T50 is not perfect, but it spanks the SR-60 hands down.


----------



## Music Alchemist

hodgjy said:


> I agree with one caveat. Of all the headphones I own, these are the only ones I need to equalize. I boost the bass and I turn down the 1 khz range to reduce the honk and shout.


 
  
 I'm totally new to the mods. I don't even know what will be included in the mod kit, but I'm assuming it's all I would need, unless there are many other mods out there that do even better things.
  
 I also don't know whether I would prefer the T50RP in any way over the HD 700, which I should receive next week.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I'm totally new to the mods. I don't even know what will be included in the mod kit, but I'm assuming it's all I would need, unless there are many other mods out there that do even better things.
> 
> I also don't know whether I would prefer the T50RP in any way over the HD 700, which I should receive next week.


 
  
 i saw somebody else's ads on classified sale on hd700 and saw you bought their pair. has it arrived?
 congratulations. hd700 looks sharp, in fact, on looks alone, i like their unique look better than the hd800...


----------



## bigalila

music alchemist said:


> I'm totally new to the mods. I don't even know what will be included in the mod kit, but I'm assuming it's all I would need, unless there are many other mods out there that do even better things.
> 
> I also don't know whether I would prefer the T50RP in any way over the HD 700, which I should receive next week.


 

 Go visit this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements
  
 There is a bunch of information and tests done on pads as well as other mods.  Some of the people in there should be helpful as well.
  
 Good luck with the HD700.  It is a very bright headphone and too bright for a lot of people.  I liked it a lot when I auditioned it, but I'm aiming for the T1 next.


----------



## hodgjy

music alchemist said:


> I'm totally new to the mods. I don't even know what will be included in the mod kit, but I'm assuming it's all I would need, unless there are many other mods out there that do even better things.
> 
> I also don't know whether I would prefer the T50RP in any way over the HD 700, which I should receive next week.


 
 I did the modeling clay, cotton, and felt mod. There was subtle improvement, but nothing drastic. I think a lot of people romanticize the T50RPs too much. The reality is they are a weak headphone that can be made less weak by modding them. The modding is fun and educational, and gives us more of a real hands-on component to the hobby, but it doesn't work miracles. MrSpeakers got everything he could out of the drivers, but I still think people make too much out of his mods. The driver is an old design that has severe limitations and lacks many technicalities. It's extremely shouty that shows its budget bloodline.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> i saw somebody else's ads on classified sale on hd700 and saw you bought their pair. has it arrived?
> congratulations. hd700 looks sharp, in fact, on looks alone, i like their unique look better than the hd800...


 
  
 I get so much random publicity on this site! I practically have my own fan club in some threads. XD
  
 In my post that you quoted, I said "which I should receive next week."
  


bigalila said:


> Go visit this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements
> 
> There is a bunch of information and tests done on pads as well as other mods.  Some of the people in there should be helpful as well.
> 
> Good luck with the HD700.  It is a very bright headphone and too bright for a lot of people.  I liked it a lot when I auditioned it, but I'm aiming for the T1 next.


 
  
 Thanks for the link!
  
 Oddly enough, my best Head-Fi friend is an HD 800 freak who always talks about how neutral the HD 800 is...yet he mentioned that he thinks the HD 700 is even more neutral than the HD 600, despite its quirks. This is the first I've seen anyone say that. I'm enjoying the Sony MDR-7506, which has some nasty peaks, and also enjoyed the Bose QC15 for years, which has really bad sibilance sometimes...so I don't think I'll have too many gripes about the HD 700. I can always tame any unwanted brightness with EQ.
  


hodgjy said:


> I did the modeling clay, cotton, and felt mod. There was subtle improvement, but nothing drastic. I think a lot of people romanticize the T50RPs too much. The reality is they are a weak headphone that can be made less weak by modding them. The modding is fun and educational, and gives us more of a real hands-on component to the hobby, but it doesn't work miracles. MrSpeakers got everything he could out of the drivers, but I still think people make too much out of his mods. The driver is an old design that has severe limitations and lacks many technicalities. It's extremely shouty that shows its budget bloodline.


 
  
 So I guess I probably won't prefer it over the HD 700 on any songs. No matter...not spending any cash on the T50RP.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I get so much random publicity on this site! I practically have my own fan club in some threads. XD


 
  
 Did you edit the post?? When i read the post the first time, i swear i didn't see


> *I also don't know whether I would prefer the T50RP in any way over the HD 700, which I should receive next week. *


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> Did you edit the post?? When i read the post the first time, i swear i didn't see


 
  
 I post so much I don't even remember now. haha XD
  
 Anyway, I will probably get it on Wednesday.


----------



## hodgjy

music alchemist said:


> So I guess I probably won't prefer it over the HD 700 on any songs. No matter...not spending any cash on the T50RP.


 
 THe T50RP are extremely mid-centric to the point they are honky. They do possess a slight magic to them, but they aren't to my liking.


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I post so much I don't even remember now. haha XD
> 
> Anyway, I will probably get it on Wednesday.


 
  
 that's an awful long time. you are going through everything do you. awesome...


----------



## bigalila

hodgjy said:


> THe T50RP are extremely mid-centric to the point they are honky. They do possess a slight magic to them, but they aren't to my liking.


 

 They are mid-centric, but some people really like that about them.  I'd prefer if they were a little more neutral.  I enjoyed them for the short time I owned them, but they didn't really fit the sound signature I was looking for at the time.  I EQ'ed them down in the midrange a little and it helped, but it wasn't a fix-all by any means.


----------



## Music Alchemist

rovopio said:


> that's an awful long time. you are going through everything do you. awesome...


 
  
 Not really, because it's being shipped to me on Monday.


----------



## hodgjy

bigalila said:


> They are mid-centric, but some people really like that about them.  I'd prefer if they were a little more neutral.  I enjoyed them for the short time I owned them, but they didn't really fit the sound signature I was looking for at the time.  I EQ'ed them down in the midrange a little and it helped, but it wasn't a fix-all by any means.


 
 I bought them when they were still going for $69, I put $10 worth of mods in them, and 30 minutes to do the mods, so I can't complain too much.


----------



## Music Alchemist

@bigalila
  
 FWIW, the person I'm getting the HD 700 from told me this:
  


> The HD700 will do exactly what you are asking, it's an exciting headphone. One of the main complaints of the HD700 is that it is too bright or has harsh treble. It's not really the case that it is bright, but it has so much resolution, clarity and detail, that it can come off as bright.
> 
> Another reason it can be disliked is that it is a much faster and energetic headphone than something like the HD650 which has a laidback, darkish sound that Sennheiser fans enjoy. I never tried the HD600/650 but from what I've read, the HD700 is the opposite of that, at least the HD650 in particular. Which all of this is to say I think this may be a perfect headphone for you for genres like metal, electronic, orchestral, etc.


----------



## bigalila

music alchemist said:


> @bigalila
> 
> FWIW, the person I'm getting the HD 700 from told me this:


 

 That's true.  It does not follow the normal Senn sound signature, and it is very detailed.  So for Senn fans it seems bright.  I liked it when I heard it through the Vali.  It is on my short list of HP's I want.


----------



## john57

While I like very detailed headphones the HD700 was just to harsh more than the HD800, as compared to my Alpha Prime and other Senn headphones I have.


----------



## Music Alchemist

john57 said:


> While I like very detailed headphones the HD700 was just to harsh more than the HD800, as compared to my Alpha Prime and other Senn headphones I have.


 
  
 I hear such perplexing things about the HD 700. Some people say it's too bright and exciting, yet at the same time dark and laid-back. XD


----------



## rovopio

music alchemist said:


> I hear such perplexing things about the HD 700. Some people say it's too bright and exciting, yet at the same time dark and laid-back. XD


 
  
 hd700 is anything but dark. the poster(s) have a very different definition of dark than Stereophile, if hd700 is consider dark.


----------



## Sanity

Just got my Lyr 2 and USB bifrost last week. Schiit's amazing!


----------



## Music Alchemist

sanity said:


> Just got my Lyr 2 and USB bifrost last week. Schiit's amazing!


 
  
 I'm king of eyeing the Lyr 2 to perhaps use with the HE-500, but I want to get at least a few more high-end headphones (taking care of the most important part) before spending so much on auxiliary components. If I end up getting the HE-6 too, perhaps I should skip the Lyr 2 for something more powerful, though.


----------



## reddog

sanity said:


> Just got my Lyr 2 and USB bifrost last week. Schiit's amazing!



Welcome to Club Schiit, may your stack of schiit always make you smile


----------



## Sanity

reddog said:


> Welcome to Club Schiit, may your stack of schiit always make you smile


 
 It will, for a long time to come.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reddog said:


> Welcome to Club Schiit, may your stack of schiit always make you smile


 
  
 Reverend Reddog rapidly returns with rapport resembling...um...I can't think of more words starting with the letter R right now! ^_^
  
 Many of your posts totally make my day, so I thought I'd try to reciprocate (there we go! another R word), even if my efforts are random and silly.


----------



## reddog

music alchemist said:


> Reverend Reddog rapidly returns with rapport resembling...um...I can't think of more words starting with the letter R right now! ^_^
> 
> Many of your posts totally make my day, so I thought I'd try to reciprocate (there we go! another R word), even if my efforts are random and silly.



Thanks. I find it best to try to be nice to all, especially fellow audiophiles.


----------



## tafens

music alchemist said:


> I suspected that something was wrong with the HD 590 I had. It sounded fine enough with acoustic music, but with everything else, it sounded extremely muffled, like I was listening to music from outside a building. All the reviews talked about how it was bright, detailed, and exciting, but it sounded the opposite to me, whether amped or unamped.




Sounds like something was wrong with it, my impression using it is much like the reviews. Then again, I have nothing to really compare to, the HD590s being my only pair of higher end cans. I'd add presence to the list though, on some tracks the presence of the vocalist can almost be felt.  I don't really remember getting quite that sensation before listening through the Magni though - and I've had them for years, must be that now they're being really properly amped 



music alchemist said:


> I'm actually getting a Sennheiser HD 700 very soon. (Then a HiFiMAN HE-500, STAX SR-207, and JVC HA-SZ2000 later.)




I've been looking towards those (the HD700), 
the HD650, or perhaps going planar with the HE-400i..


----------



## Matro5

sanity said:


> Just got my Lyr 2 and USB bifrost last week. Schiit's amazing!


 
 congrats! post impressions when you can, please


----------



## Music Alchemist

tafens said:


> Sounds like something was wrong with it, my impression using it is much like the reviews. Then again, I have nothing to really compare to, the HD590s being my only pair of higher end cans. I'd add presence to the list though, on some tracks the presence of the vocalist can almost be felt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What genres of music do you listen to? I listen to nearly everything and it was only "not a problem" with some acoustic music. I've owned a good number of headphones, so the difference was very obvious to me. Who knows what the problem was...but I only heard minor differences between plugging into my laptop's headphone jack and the Magni 2 Uber.


----------



## KLJTech

music alchemist said:


> I'm king of eyeing the Lyr 2 to perhaps use with the HE-500, but I want to get at least a few more high-end headphones (taking care of the most important part) before spending so much on auxiliary components. If I end up getting the HE-6 too, perhaps I should skip the Lyr 2 for something more powerful, though.


 
  
 The Lyr 2 is very powerful and sounds sweet with the HE-500's. I'd think about a better source (maybe the Bifrost or Gungnir) before worrying about upgrading the Lyr 2 as my amp. Either way, have fun and enjoy your music!


----------



## Music Alchemist

kljtech said:


> The Lyr 2 is very powerful and sounds sweet with the HE-500's. I'd think about a better source (maybe the Bifrost or Gungnir) before worrying about upgrading the Lyr 2 as my amp. Either way, have fun and enjoy your music!


 
  
 Hrmm...I'm more worried about which amp to get, especially if I ever get the HE-6. I would have to compare DACs side by side (switching rapidly between them with an AB box or something) and verify that I heard a difference (and more importantly, a _significant improvement_) before committing to buy an expensive one. (Though I really want the Yggdrasil!) I am determined to determine (lol) one day whether the Sound Science objectivists (who claim that all "properly designed" DACs, including ones in computers and iPhones, sound the same and anything that sounds different is merely coloring the sound) or audiophiles across the globe (who claim that more expensive DACs sound much better than cheap ones) are correct. Never really seen a "scientific" test between DACs in all price ranges before.


----------



## SuperU

music alchemist said:


> Hrmm...I'm more worried about which amp to get, especially if I ever get the HE-6. I would have to compare DACs side by side (switching rapidly between them with an AB box or something) and verify that I heard a difference (and more importantly, a _significant improvement_) before committing to buy an expensive one. (Though I really want the Yggdrasil!) I am determined to determine (lol) one day whether the Sound Science objectivists (who claim that all "properly designed" DACs, including ones in computers and iPhones, sound the same and anything that sounds different is merely coloring the sound) or audiophiles across the globe (who claim that more expensive DACs sound much better than cheap ones) are correct. Never really seen a "scientific" test between DACs in all price ranges before.


 
 Well said.
  
 And this is the problem I'm having right now. I have the Asgard 2/Bifrost Uber combo. I started out with Mad Dog Pro headphones and thought they were fine. Then I bought the LCD-X which are about 3 times more expensive. They certainly are not three times better sounding. Though they are definitely better. Much better. But I was somewhat underwhelmed at the difference.
  
 What I don't know is if a much better amp/DAC would really make a difference. I want the Rag and what I wanted to do is to greatly open up the sound of my headphones. For example, the LCD-X says it does best with headphones from 1 to 4 W. The Asgard 2 has 1 W of power at 20 OHMS which is what the headphones are as well, so I am at the minimum level acceptable. It definitely drives the sound to all the loudness I could pretty much want. But what I don't know is if a better amp would give me better sound overall (better sound stage etc.) and not just more loudness. 
  
 Anybody have any thoughts on this?


----------



## KLJTech

Well, if you're concerned that all DAC's may sound more or less the same then save your money and spend more on music. I've been at this a very long time and if there's one thing I've learned it's to trust my own ears. I think it's best (if possible) to put together the best/most enjoyable system you can (within reason) and once you've done that _try to forget about the components_ and get back to enjoying your music. Good luck!


----------



## KLJTech

superu said:


> Well said.
> 
> And this is the problem I'm having right now. I have the Asgard 2/Bifrost Uber combo. I started out with Mad Dog Pro headphones and thought they were fine. Then I bought the LCD-X which are about 3 times more expensive. They certainly are not three times better sounding. Though they are definitely better. Much better. But I was somewhat underwhelmed at the difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 All of that gear is very good and I think you'll find that you're at the point of diminishing returns. _That doesn't mean that something else can't or won't sound better_, simply that spending twice as much won't get you a 200% improvement in sound. With those headphones, you may prefer the more powerful Lyr 2 and it would give you the ability to change out tubes IF you feel like trying others. I happen to love the Asgard 2, but it has more than enough power to drive the headphones I'm using. Good luck with whatever you decide!


----------



## tomb

superu said:


> music alchemist said:
> 
> 
> > Hrmm...I'm more worried about which amp to get, especially if I ever get the HE-6. I would have to compare DACs side by side (switching rapidly between them with an AB box or something) and verify that I heard a difference (and more importantly, a _significant improvement_) before committing to buy an expensive one. (Though I really want the Yggdrasil!) I am determined to determine (lol) one day whether the Sound Science objectivists (who claim that all "properly designed" DACs, including ones in computers and iPhones, sound the same and anything that sounds different is merely coloring the sound) or audiophiles across the globe (who claim that more expensive DACs sound much better than cheap ones) are correct. Never really seen a "scientific" test between DACs in all price ranges before.
> ...


 
  
 A couple of things -
  
 Those that are claiming DACs all sound the same when "properly designed" are simply justifying the limits of their own investment.  The perfect DAC has not been created yet - nor will it ever.  They may quote frequency response, S/N, and THD, but those are very limited measurements and the way they are measured are themselves limited.  All things being equal, those measurements can be a good discriminator, but when they're all pretty close - they're not of much value.
  
 Yes, you will get better sound overall with a better amp, but that doesn't mean if you go out and buy a a more expensive amp and then don't notice a change that I'm wrong. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  As you've noticed, the higher you go in quality listening, the less difference a bigger investment makes.  That's true in a lot of efforts, not just high-fidelity sound.  It all depends on priorities and the goals being sought whether even marginal differences are appreciated.  Anyway, one would expect that a top-of-the-line headphone would respond noticeably to ever-increasing amplifier quality.  I know for a fact that the HD600 operates that way - can't say personally about the Audeze, though.


----------



## SuperU

kljtech said:


> Well, if you're concerned that all DAC's may sound more or less the same then save your money and spend more on music. I've been at this a very long time and if there's one thing I've learned it's to trust my own ears. I think it's best (if possible) to put together the best/most enjoyable system you can (within reason) and once you've done that _try to forget about the components_ and get back to enjoying your music. Good luck!


 
 Thank you for your thoughts. And to avoid more answers like this let me say a few things...
  
 My concern isn't with the DAC so much as it is with the Amp. That's what I was asking about more than anything.
  
 I have the money to get whatever I want pretty much. That said, I don't want to just throw money away. For example, I'm one that believes that cables don't make much difference. So I would rather put my money in headphones and secondarily an Amp/DAC. And I don't really feel good about spending 10 times the money for a 2% bump in performance that is discernible mainly only through the specifications and not in what is heard.
  
 Further, I happen to live in a place where I am unable to test anything. So it might be useful for me to go and listen to a number of these different units to make a decision but it's not practical. So based on that, I have amalgamated the advice of as many as possible and have done reasonably well to date. My Schit rocks.
  
 Still though, I would like to have as good as is possible, within reason. The price of a Rag/Yggy is absolutely within reason - IF - there would be a discernible difference in quality. 
  
 And I definitely agree with purchasing more music. That will be a never ending, lifelong process.


----------



## rovopio

superu said:


> Thank you for your thoughts. And to avoid more answers like this let me say a few things...
> 
> My concern isn't with the DAC so much as it is with the Amp. That's what I was asking about more than anything.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 buy the yggy and the rag and then just sell them on head-fi after you listened to them?
 i would totally buy something i want (after some research) and tests everything i bought from informed knowledge, by my own ears, and then sell them afterwards if money is relatively a no-issue.
  
 who knows, maybe i will be satisfied with a $500 headphone instead of the $1000 one, and the same goes with the rest of the chain.


----------



## tafens

music alchemist said:


> What genres of music do you listen to? I listen to nearly everything and it was only "not a problem" with some acoustic music. I've owned a good number of headphones, so the difference was very obvious to me. Who knows what the problem was...but I only heard minor differences between plugging into my laptop's headphone jack and the Magni 2 Uber.




I listen to many/most types of music, rock/pop (like Dire Straits, Roxette, Stones, Queen, almost anything 80's), sometimes classic/acoustic, and lots of synth/electronic (Koto, Laserdance and the like).

Thinking about what you described as listening from the outside; I have read that the 590 has some issues with recessed mids. Could that be it? I guess I'm so used to them my brain has normalised to that.

Having quite a lot of experience with headphones, what would you recommend as a good pairing for the Magni/Modi? Given the affordability range of, say $300-$400 retail?


----------



## Music Alchemist

I'm putting this at the top of the post because I think it is crucially important:
  
*At the same SPL (loudness) level, a less powerful and more powerful amp will output the same power into your headphones.*
  
 Nick from Schiit Audio and others have confirmed this.
  


superu said:


> Well said.
> 
> And this is the problem I'm having right now. I have the Asgard 2/Bifrost Uber combo. I started out with Mad Dog Pro headphones and thought they were fine. Then I bought the LCD-X which are about 3 times more expensive. They certainly are not three times better sounding. Though they are definitely better. Much better. But I was somewhat underwhelmed at the difference.
> 
> ...


 
  
 First, read my statement above and think about what it entails.
  
 Second, here is a great resource where you can see power requirements and amp combos for headphones: http://www.audiobot9000.com
  
 According to this link, the LCD-X only needs 75 mW at 20 ohms to reach 120 dB. (According to my own calculations, it only needs 50 mW. I am beginning to suspect that that website does not list accurate specs all the time. Or perhaps they know something I don't...) An amp with more power will still only output that same amount of low power into the headphones at that SPL level. "Minimum level acceptable"? Do you have any idea how loud a full watt would be going into your LCD-X? Have you ever turned the volume knob all the way up on high gain? I would strongly advise against it. You are most likely using barely any of your amp's full power to reach normal listening levels.
  
 I have no idea why Audeze says the "optimal power requirement" for the LCD-X is one to four watts for such a sensitive headphone. (Anyone wanna chime in with insights?)
  
 Technically, the Asgard 2's output is not listed at 20 ohms. 32 ohms is the lowest impedance with available specs. (This may not matter much, but just saying.)
  
 One thing I do know is that some balanced amps (including the Ragnarok) have balanced topology that is designed better than the single-ended section, and as a result, they will sound better via a balanced connection than single-ended. (All things being equal, there is no audible difference between balanced and single-ended.)
  
 More relevant info below...
  


kljtech said:


> Well, if you're concerned that all DAC's may sound more or less the same then save your money and spend more on music. I've been at this a very long time and if there's one thing I've learned it's to trust my own ears. I think it's best (if possible) to put together the best/most enjoyable system you can (within reason) and once you've done that _try to forget about the components_ and get back to enjoying your music. Good luck!


 
  
 The ironic thing is that I am selling my CDs to raise cash for better audio gear. XD
  
 For the future, I have no problem spending a good deal of money on gear -- but only if it sounds much better to me and I can demonstrate it objectively.
  


tomb said:


> A couple of things -
> 
> Those that are claiming DACs all sound the same when "properly designed" are simply justifying the limits of their own investment.  The perfect DAC has not been created yet - nor will it ever.  They may quote frequency response, S/N, and THD, but those are very limited measurements and the way they are measured are themselves limited.  All things being equal, those measurements can be a good discriminator, but when they're all pretty close - they're not of much value.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I honestly _hope_ that more expensive DACs are audibly superior. I lust after DACs like the Schiit Yggdrasil ($2,299) and TRINITY DAC (~$60,000). But I will reserve judgment until I am able to do my own tests. I just wish others conducted and published similar tests. (The closest I've seen is when people, including some in this thread, compared a few DACs in various price ranges and couldn't hear a difference between them.)
  
 What do you mean by "ever-increasing amplifier quality"?
  
 I'm going to quote this great post again:
  


cjl said:


> The fact is, if an amp has:
> 
> 1) inaudibly low noise
> 2) inaudibly low distortion at the required power and current level
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

tafens said:


> I listen to many/most types of music, rock/pop (like Dire Straits, Roxette, Stones, Queen, almost anything 80's), sometimes classic/acoustic, and lots of synth/electronic (Koto, Laserdance and the like).
> 
> Thinking about what you described as listening from the outside; I have read that the 590 has some issues with recessed mids. Could that be it? I guess I'm so used to them my brain has normalised to that.
> 
> Having quite a lot of experience with headphones, what would you recommend as a good pairing for the Magni/Modi? Given the affordability range of, say $300-$400 retail?


 
 You can't do better than the HD600 at $300. I've been through many cans, and this is my realization.


----------



## money4me247

tomb said:


> A couple of things -
> 
> Those that are claiming DACs all sound the same when "properly designed" are simply justifying the limits of their own investment.  The perfect DAC has not been created yet - nor will it ever.  They may quote frequency response, S/N, and THD, but those are very limited measurements and the way they are measured are themselves limited.  All things being equal, those measurements can be a good discriminator, but when they're all pretty close - they're not of much value.


 
  
 for those who want to find out about what "audio transparency" means & have an hour to kill, I would highly recommend viewing this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvireu2SGZM


----------



## SuperU

money4me247 said:


> for those who want to find out about what "audio transparency" means & have an hour to kill, I would highly recommend viewing this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvireu2SGZM


 
 I'm listening to that now. Wow, this is super informative.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tafens said:


> I listen to many/most types of music, rock/pop (like Dire Straits, Roxette, Stones, Queen, almost anything 80's), sometimes classic/acoustic, and lots of synth/electronic (Koto, Laserdance and the like).
> 
> Thinking about what you described as listening from the outside; I have read that the 590 has some issues with recessed mids. Could that be it? I guess I'm so used to them my brain has normalised to that.
> 
> Having quite a lot of experience with headphones, what would you recommend as a good pairing for the Magni/Modi? Given the affordability range of, say $300-$400 retail?


 
  
 It had many problems. Basically just sounded really muffled, dull, weak, etc. -- even from the Magni 2 Uber. So the problem was definitely with the headphones. Could be just the drivers getting old and deteriorating...but does that actually happen? My old QC15 had recessed mids, yet was punchy and exciting.
  
 You want headphone recommendations? I loved the $349 Focal Spirit Professional, but it's a closed headphone. And it doesn't need an amp.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

More powerful? 6 watts RMS at 32 Ohms...

quote name="Music Alchemist" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9645#post_11453805"]
I'm king of eyeing the Lyr 2 to perhaps use with the HE-500, but I want to get at least a few more high-end headphones (taking care of the most important part) before spending so much on auxiliary components. If I end up getting the HE-6 too, perhaps I should skip the Lyr 2 for something more powerful, though.
[/quote]


----------



## madwolfa

From pure power perspective, Asgard 2 is more than enough to get the entire Audeze lineup to head-shattering volume levels. FWIW, I rarely go higher than 9 am with my LCD-2F on High Gain..


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> More powerful? 6 watts RMS at 32 Ohms...


 
  
 The HE-6 is 50 ohms. According to this link, it needs 6,700 mW at 50 ohms to reach 120 dB. The Lyr 2 outputs 4,000 mW at 50 ohms. And there ya go. It may not matter in the end, but if I were to get an HE-6, I wouldn't want to skimp on the power.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> The HE-6 is 50 ohms. According to this link, it needs 6,700 mW at 50 ohms to reach 120 dB. The Lyr 2 outputs 4,000 mW at 50 ohms. And there ya go. It may not matter in the end, but if I were to get an HE-6, I wouldn't want to skimp on the power.





music alchemist said:


> The HE-6 is 50 ohms. According to this link, it needs 6,700 mW at 50 ohms to reach 120 dB. The Lyr 2 outputs 4,000 mW at 50 ohms. And there ya go. It may not matter in the end, but if I were to get an HE-6, I wouldn't want to skimp on the power.




specwise the lyr 2 has enough power for the he6, bu\ ppl say tat the he6 is picky abt amps & recommend a speaker amp for em. so if u r gettin an he6, u will most likely b investin n a separate amp for em regardless.


----------



## raybone0566

money4me247 said:


> specwise the lyr 2 has enough power for the he6, bu\ ppl say tat the he6 is picky abt amps & recommend a speaker amp for em. so if u r gettin an he6, u will most likely b investin n a separate amp for em regardless.


 Quite true, pretty much every review done on he-6 a speaker amp was either involved or suggested for better performance.


----------



## Music Alchemist

money4me247 said:


> specwise the lyr 2 has enough power for the he6, bu\ ppl say tat the he6 is picky abt amps & recommend a speaker amp for em. so if u r gettin an he6, u will most likely b investin n a separate amp for em regardless.


 
  
 Unless that link is incorrect about the power requirements, it needs more than the Lyr 2 can provide in order to handle 120 dB. Since I listen at fairly loud levels, 120 dB dynamic peaks may actually be something I need to worry about. On the other hand, I'm sure it would sound fine with just a Magni or whatever. But what makes it need a speaker amp?


----------



## TinearedOne

...and the same link says it needs 2K mW to generate 115 dB.  So, if you regularly listen to your music at 85 dB, which you can do for 8 hrs/day before incurring permanent hearing loss, you'll never need more than 1/2 of the Lyr 2's power.  Has anyone tried the combo?  88 - 4 hours... and it gets short in a hurry from there.  What are you trying to do to yourself?  Hearing has to last a lifetime.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinearedone said:


> ...and the same link says it needs 2K mW to generate 115 dB.  So, if you regularly listen to your music at 85 dB, which you can do for 8 hrs/day before incurring permanent hearing loss, you'll never need more than 1/2 of the Lyr 2's power.  Has anyone tried the combo?


 
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if my *normal* listening level was something crazy like 110 dB. XD I should measure it with various music when I can.
  
 Here's a little secret technique I use to find stuff: I go to Google and type in site:head-fi.org, then put in the things I want to research in quotation marks. So to find posts talking about both the HE-6 and Lyr 2, I would use this search link. You could remove the first part to get results from all over the Internet, but they wouldn't be as targeted.


----------



## TinearedOne

Got it, but my point was merely that such information isn't in this thread, right here, and it's a lot of speculation in the last page or two with little useful evidence.  As to the rest, I guess they're your ears.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

If you go to the Summit- Fi section of this website, you will find a populated thread dedicated to HE-6 and its notorious amping requirements. The Lyr is not well-favored with the HE-6 by most of the posters who have tried the pairing. I say that from the perspective of someone who enjoys the Lyr with my HE-500 and who has no experience with HE-6, but I thought it would help to summarize my own research into this pairing. Ragnarok running balanced is the most suitable for the HE-6 out of Schiit's lineup, according to most accounts, including Jude in his recent preview of the Canjam in SoCal.


----------



## money4me247

music alchemist said:


> Unless that link is incorrect about the power requirements, it needs more than the Lyr 2 can provide in order to handle *120 dB*. Since I listen at fairly loud levels, 120 dB dynamic peaks may actually be something I need to worry about. On the other hand, I'm sure it would sound fine with just a Magni or whatever. But what makes it need a speaker amp?


 
*125dB = threshold for pain. *120dB is overkill for any real-life application. 90-95dB is where you start getting hearing loss after extended listening. 
  
 you know, honestly, i think this will work out quite well for you. after you lose your hearing, you won't need to spend money on headphones & all that jazz anymore


----------



## TinearedOne

I guess the other question is why you'd buy a $450 amp if you can afford to blow $1300 on headphones.  I can't see too many people with that combo, and I suspect neither does Schiit.  That seems like Ragnarok territory.  Both too rich for my blood until the kids' college is paid for.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tinearedone said:


> Got it, but my point was merely that such information isn't in this thread, right here, and it's a lot of speculation in the last page or two with little useful evidence.  As to the rest, I guess they're your ears.


 
  
Oh, really?




  
 Some of those posts are by yours truly and therefore useless for this endeavor, though. lol
  


liu junyuan said:


> If you go to the Summit- Fi section of this website, you will find a populated thread dedicated to HE-6 and its notorious amping requirements. The Lyr is not well-favored with the HE-6 by most of the posters who have tried the pairing. I say that from the perspective of someone who enjoys the Lyr with my HE-500 and who has no experience with HE-6, but I thought it would help to summarize my own research into this pairing. Ragnarok running balanced is the most suitable for the HE-6 out of Schiit's lineup, according to most accounts, including Jude in his recent preview of the Canjam in SoCal.


 
  
 Oh hey, I've seen your posts in random threads. I remember you mentioning that you liked the HE-500 and Lyr. I am in the process of getting an HE-500. Only reason I'm not getting it at the moment is because I bought an HD 700 first.
  
 Jude posted some impressions of the Ragnarok, HE-6, Abyss, etc. here. (Though I'm sure many have already seen it long ago.)
  
 The Ragnarok and Yggdrasil are something that I would get for the sheer heck of it.
  


money4me247 said:


> *125dB = threshold for pain. *120dB is overkill for any real-life application. 90-95dB is where you start getting hearing loss after extended listening.
> 
> you know, honestly, i think this will work out quite well for you. after you lose your hearing, you won't need to spend money on headphones & all that jazz anymore


 
  
 lololol
  
 But we're talking about dynamic peaks, not normal listening levels. That's the main reason such things _could_ matter...but as I have stated before, I really don't know how much it actually matters.


----------



## madwolfa

tinearedone said:


> I guess the other question is why you'd buy a $450 amp if you can afford to blow $1300 on headphones.  I can't see too many people with that combo, and I suspect neither does Schiit.  That seems like Ragnarok territory.  Both too rich for my blood until the kids' college is paid for.


 
  
 I'm using a $250 amp with a $1000 headphone without any issues...  In fact many people are using their Modi/Magni stacks with HD800's, lol.


----------



## money4me247

madwolfa said:


> I'm using a $250 amp with a $1000 headphone without any issues...  In fact many people are using their Modi/Magni stacks with HD800's, lol.


 
 +1. I think some people get too carried away about the external components. the headphones make the biggest difference & have the most impact on your sound quality.


----------



## reddog

I have used my Asgard 2 and Lyr 2 to drive all three of my cans: ATH 50x, Dt 880 600 ohm and the Alpha Prime's, and they all sound great. I do have a Ragnarok and in balanced out, it drives my Alpha Prime's like nothing else. I have never believed my amps or dac must be as expensive as my most expensive headphones. But we all have our own motivations, that influence, what gear we desire.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

money4me247 said:


> specwise the lyr 2 has enough power for the he6, bu\ ppl say tat the he6 is picky abt amps & recommend a speaker amp for em. so if u r gettin an he6, u will most likely b investin n a separate amp for em regardless.


 
  


music alchemist said:


> Unless that link is incorrect about the power requirements, it needs more than the Lyr 2 can provide in order to handle 120 dB. Since I listen at fairly loud levels, 120 dB dynamic peaks may actually be something I need to worry about. On the other hand, I'm sure it would sound fine with just a Magni or whatever. But what makes it need a speaker amp?


 
 Yikes. To TinEar listen you must! TOO loud. It sounds like you listen ALOT.


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> Yikes. To TinEar listen you must! TOO loud. It sounds like you listen ALOT.


 
  
 Dynamic peaks can add up to 30 dB extra (albeit briefly) to music. 120 dB is more or less the industry standard that audio companies and audiophiles look at when determining a headphone's power requirements. That does not mean you are playing music that loud all the time; it just means for the brief time those dynamic peaks occur, it can handle 120 dB without clipping.


----------



## diamondears

hodgjy said:


> You can't do better than the HD600 at $300. I've been through many cans, and this is my realization.


 
How about NAD HP50 at $300 as well?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

If your average level is 90 db you are risking your hearing. SPL meters are not expensive. I'd strongly recommend one. 


music alchemist said:


> Dynamic peaks can add up to 30 dB extra (albeit briefly) to music. 120 dB is more or less the industry standard that audio companies and audiophiles look at when determining a headphone's power requirements. That does not mean you are playing music that loud all the time; it just means for the brief time those dynamic peaks occur, it can handle 120 dB without clipping.


----------



## Music Alchemist

exacoustatowner said:


> If your average level is 90 db you are risking your hearing. SPL meters are not expensive. I'd strongly recommend one.


 
  
 My average level is probably higher than that, but I dunno. What I do know is that my ears do not hurt at all. I'll do the SPL thing eventually. I like my listening sessions to be exciting, not boring, and that can't be done with soft volume.


----------



## tafens

music alchemist said:


> It had many problems. Basically just sounded really muffled, dull, weak, etc. -- even from the Magni 2 Uber. So the problem was definitely with the headphones. Could be just the drivers getting old and deteriorating...but does that actually happen? My old QC15 had recessed mids, yet was punchy and exciting.
> 
> You want headphone recommendations? I loved the $349 Focal Spirit Professional, but it's a closed headphone. And it doesn't need an amp.


 
  


hodgjy said:


> You can't do better than the HD600 at $300. I've been through many cans, and this is my realization.


 
  
 Thanks @Music Alchemist and @hodgjy for your recommendations. Now to find a way to try them out 
  
 I do like the sound of an open headphone (although the closed ones I've had have all been in the sub $100 range), but at the office a closed can sure has its advantages. I'm a bit sceptic towards noise cancelling headphones (with active noise cancelling that is), as I've tried the QC15 and although the actual noise cancelling was top notch it sounded somewhat tinny to me and the soundstage was more closed in. It has a good punch though.
  
 I love a wide soundstage, so that's a big plus for a headphone if it has. I read that that the HD600/650 has, and I'll do a search on the Focal Spirit Pros as well.
 It's also good if it has a nice punch in the bass - but tight and controlled - in an otherwise clear, detailed and wide sound.


----------



## hodgjy

diamondears said:


> How about NAD HP50 at $300 as well?


 
 I've never heard them, but I'm told they are well liked.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tafens said:


> Thanks @Music Alchemist and @hodgjy for your recommendations. Now to find a way to try them out
> 
> I do like the sound of an open headphone (although the closed ones I've had have all been in the sub $100 range), but at the office a closed can sure has its advantages. I'm a bit sceptic towards noise cancelling headphones (with active noise cancelling that is), as I've tried the QC15 and although the actual noise cancelling was top notch it sounded somewhat tinny to me and the soundstage was more closed in. It has a good punch though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I owned and enjoyed the QC15 for years. Did not sound tinny at all to me. In fact, I found it to be more realistic in many ways than most studio monitor headphones despite its colored sound. It just had bad sibilance sometimes. Replacing the stock headphone cable (which has extra electronics that interfere with the signal) with a normal headphone cable (the best for me was the V-MODA Audio Only Cable, which is very durable, can be used with most headphones that have 3.5 mm connections, and is only twelve bucks) dramatically increased its sound quality and tamed the sibilance (which could also make it sound less tinny to you, I guess), but also switched the right-left channels since the headphone has active circuitry. I agree about the soundstage being more intimate (which I actually prefer sometimes) and it having a good punch. The QC15 is, at the time of this writing, the most exciting headphone I've heard.
  
 The Focal Spirit Professional is very close to neutral. Unlike most headphones, it doesn't have crazy peaks in the frequency response, so it's actually on the slightly darker side of neutral. Its bass is excellent and exactly like you described. It has better physicality and impact than most headphones I've heard. And at the same time, it is very clear, detailed, and wide enough, though obviously not as spacious as open headphones.
  
 Ironically, I think my Sony MDR-7506 has the most open sound of any closed headphone I've heard, but it has some nasty peaks in the treble, etc. that require EQ to get a more accurate sound.
  
 Although I have not heard the HD 600 and HD 650, I'm almost certain that they are more laid-back and less dynamic and engaging than the FSP. The problem with the FSP is that it has a resonance where the sound swells up and reflects back, which hurt my ears sometimes. Open headphones don't have this problem at all. On the other hand, it may be the reason why the FSP has such excellent physicality.


----------



## Billheiser

diamondears said:


> How about NAD HP50 at $300 as well?


good headphone and I enjoyed mine but not as much as my hd600.


----------



## evanhindra

Hey guys,
  
 More questions from me; trying to find a setup to connect powered speakers to Gungnir + Mjolnir combo.
 I'm assuming if I attach another amp between the powered speakers and the Gungnir, it would work? Currently I'm planning to use the NuForce Icon a friend has (he's offering it to me for free), otherwise, I may just pick up another Amp from Schiit.  If I need to use the speakers, I'd just power on the Amp to the speakers.


----------



## RickB

evanhindra said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> More questions from me; trying to find a setup to connect powered speakers to Gungnir + Mjolnir combo.
> I'm assuming if I attach another amp between the powered speakers and the Gungnir, it would work? Currently I'm planning to use the NuForce Icon a friend has (he's offering it to me for free), otherwise, I may just pick up another Amp from Schiit.  If I need to use the speakers, I'd just power on the Amp to the speakers.


 
  
 The A2+ have their own built-in amp, so I don't think you need another amp in between them and the Gungnir.


----------



## evanhindra

So just connect


rickb said:


> The A2+ have their own built-in amp, so I don't think you need another amp in between them and the Gungnir.


 
 So I'd just have to connect the A2+ to the Amp through RCA out from the Gungnir then?


----------



## RickB

evanhindra said:


> So just connect
> So I'd just have to connect the A2+ to the Amp through RCA out from the Gungnir then?


 

 I think so.


----------



## RickB

^^I should add that if the A2+ are like the A2, then the volume control on the speakers is on the BACK of the left speaker. Not very convenient for adjusting the volume. You would need to either put up with it or adjust the volume in the computer's media player.
  
 The A2s work in my system because I use them with an Asgard 2, which has single-ended pre-outs. I can control speaker volume with the Asgard. You can't control the volume from Gungnir and Mjolnir doesn't have single-ended pre-outs.


----------



## evanhindra

rickb said:


> ^^I should add that if the A2+ are like the A2, then the volume control on the speakers is on the BACK of the left speaker. Not very convenient for adjusting the volume. You would need to either put up with it or adjust the volume in the computer's media player.
> 
> The A2s work in my system because I use them with an Asgard 2, which has single-ended pre-outs. I can control speaker volume with the Asgard. You can't control the volume from Gungnir and Mjolnir doesn't have single-ended pre-outs.


 
  
 Yeah, it seems that I would need to use Schiit's SYS (http://schiit.com/products/sys) to control the AS+


----------



## Sanity

matro5 said:


> congrats! post impressions when you can, please


 
 Impressions? Don't mind if I do!
  
 The Bifrost does an admirable job. I used to use the Lavry DA11, and it is as good, if not better, from the time I've spent with it. Everything is great from USB (which is my main source) and brings life back to music for me once more.
  
 As for the amp, I've had a few over the years, but this one is the most ridiculous I've used. On low gain, the volume reaches near deafening levels at 3 o'clock, though I tend to hover around 11-12 o'clock on the dial (that depends on the song I suppose. Hi gain is too much for the AKG K701 (it was deafening nowhere close to 12 o'clock). The stock tubes for Lyr are great, but I ordered a pair of Amperex CEP USN 6922 tubes to roll (based on some recommendations I found online) to see what the fuss is all about. When those come in I'll give you more impressions.
  
 So far, though, this is some outstanding Schiit. I probably won't need to get any other audio components (outside of headphones) ever. Well, not counting upgrading my bifrost to uber mode down the line, of course


----------



## tafens

music alchemist said:


> I owned and enjoyed the QC15 for years. Did not sound tinny at all to me. In fact, I found it to be more realistic in many ways than most studio monitor headphones despite its colored sound. It just had bad sibilance sometimes. Replacing the stock headphone cable (which has extra electronics that interfere with the signal) with a normal headphone cable (the best for me was the V-MODA Audio Only Cable, which is very durable, can be used with most headphones that have 3.5 mm connections, and is only twelve bucks) dramatically increased its sound quality and tamed the sibilance (which could also make it sound less tinny to you, I guess), but also switched the right-left channels since the headphone has active circuitry. I agree about the soundstage being more intimate (which I actually prefer sometimes) and it having a good punch. The QC15 is, at the time of this writing, the most exciting headphone I've heard.


 
 I think I can partially blame the HD590's recessed mids for that - as I begin to realize the do actually have - because as I'm used to hearing it that way the QC15's more normal mids will in comparison sound like elevated mids to me. And elevated mids would sound a bit tinny.. :/
  
 Have you tried the newer QC25 btw?


----------



## StanD

tafens said:


> I think I can partially blame the HD590's recessed mids for that - as I begin to realize the do actually have - because as I'm used to hearing it that way the QC15's more normal mids will in comparison sound like elevated mids to me. And elevated mids would sound a bit tinny.. :/
> 
> Have you tried the newer QC25 btw?


 
 I don't think that elevated mids will sound tinny.


----------



## Music Alchemist

tafens said:


> I think I can partially blame the HD590's recessed mids for that - as I begin to realize the do actually have - because as I'm used to hearing it that way the QC15's more normal mids will in comparison sound like elevated mids to me. And elevated mids would sound a bit tinny.. :/
> 
> Have you tried the newer QC25 btw?


 
  
 Nope. But I heard it's much more neutral than the QC15.
  


stand said:


> I don't think that elevated mids will sound tinny.


 
  
 Yeah, if anything, it would make the music sound fuller, as long as they aren't elevated too much. And a perfectly neutral (in the sense that it is compensated for human hearing to sound neutral) and otherwise accurate (which depends on the driver quality and so on) sound would sound just like the original recording, so it would only sound tinny if the recording was tinny.


----------



## tafens

stand said:


> I don't think that elevated mids will sound tinny.




Sorry, not being quite familiar with the lingo, being a bit of a rookie here  Looking through the "Describing sound a glossary" here on head-fi, it's apparent that "tinny" is a bit off as the sound in comparison is neither narrow band nor having weak lows. Slightly peaky mids though.

I do emphasise that I don't mean that the QC15 is like that in and by itself, but only in comparison with my HD590 when being used to its sound character (or the brain being "burned in" to it so to speak).

The HD590 could, I gather, by the same glossary be described as slightly "hollow" or U-shaped.

I'm at a bit of a loss here looking for a word to describe it, but it would be the opposite of "slightly hollow".


----------



## Music Alchemist

tafens said:


> Sorry, not being quite familiar with the lingo, being a bit of a rookie here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The QC15 has a U-shaped frequency response, since its bass and treble are more prominent than the mids, but the mids aren't very recessed. The HD 590 (mine, at least) did not have boosted bass, but I disliked the sound so much (except with some acoustic music) that I don't care to discuss it further.
  
 Since the QC15 requires a AAA battery to even use it, it's not something I would recommend to anyone unless they actually need the noise cancelling.
  
 I find it amusing that we're comparing an open Sennheiser to a closed noise-cancelling Bose. XD


----------



## tafens

music alchemist said:


> Since the QC15 requires a AAA battery to even use it, it's not something I would recommend to anyone unless they actually need the noise cancelling.



I read that the QC25 can still be used when the battery is out, but the noise cancelling dies of course and the sound quality will be degraded.



music alchemist said:


> I find it amusing that we're comparing an open Sennheiser to a closed noise-cancelling Bose. XD




Yeah


----------



## wahsmoh

tafens said:


> I read that the QC25 can still be used when the battery is out, but the noise cancelling dies of course and the sound quality will be degraded.
> Yeah


 
  
 That is correct. I own a pair and I used them for a trip from Peru to Miami and Miami to San Diego. I had a 10 hour layover too and that was hell. I will say though that they are the best noise cancelling headphones I have ever used and they made my life amazing soon as I started hearing a crying baby I put them on and goodbye crying baby!!!! I used them to help get some sleep because they cancelled out the ambient drone of the aircraft cabin.
  
 For sound quality I would give them an 7.5-8/10 in regards to their overall performance in their category as a portable and SQ in general. It is more natural sounding than most ANC headphones I have heard and is still relatively neutral.
  
 Definitely not a bassheads can but has slightly elevated mids and decent treble response that isn't that bad. I would buy them if you want the noise-cancelling function and are planning on doing a ton of traveling.
  
 I wouldn't buy them if you are just interested in a portable but could care less about isolation. There are many better portables out there I would choose over the QC25, but for airplanes there is really no other option except the IEM route


----------



## Music Alchemist

wahsmoh said:


> I will say though that they are the best noise cancelling headphones I have ever used and they made my life amazing soon as I started hearing a crying baby I put them on and goodbye crying baby!!!! I used them to help get some sleep because they cancelled out the ambient drone of the aircraft cabin.


 
  
 "Goodbye crying baby!!!" could almost be used as an advertising slogan for noise cancelling technology. XD


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Thanks for your impressions. I'm running my Lyr with some 1974 Reflektor Silver Shield SWGP (just burning in). I was around 200 hours on the stock GE Tubes- and they sounded a lot better than at first. My source is the OppoBDP 105D Sabre 32 bit 9018 and my phones are HiFIMan HE-560
Really curious to hear other DACs!
quote name="Sanity" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9705#post_11457956"]Impressions? Don't mind if I do!

The Bifrost does an admirable job. I used to use the Lavry DA11, and it is as good, if not better, from the time I've spent with it. Everything is great from USB (which is my main source) and brings life back to music for me once more.

As for the amp, I've had a few over the years, but this one is the most ridiculous I've used. On low gain, the volume reaches near deafening levels at 3 o'clock, though I tend to hover around 11-12 o'clock on the dial (that depends on the song I suppose. Hi gain is too much for the AKG K701 (it was deafening nowhere close to 12 o'clock). The stock tubes for Lyr are great, but I ordered a pair of [COLOR=111111]Amperex CEP USN 6922 t[/COLOR]ubes to roll (based on some recommendations I found online) to see what the fuss is all about. When those come in I'll give you more impressions.

So far, though, this is some outstanding Schiit. I probably won't need to get any other audio components (outside of headphones) ever. Well, not counting upgrading my bifrost to uber mode down the line, of course 
[/quote]


----------



## oceans22

Hey guys, I'm running a Fiio Mont Blanc to my recently purchased HiFiMan HE400i & although it sounds good, I really don't have another amp to compare it to.
  
 The A2 is in my price range so would I really be stepping up in quality of sound? Or are they too similar?
  
 Sorry I'm still a newbie but I'm learning!


----------



## cuiter23

oceans22 said:


> Hey guys, I'm running a Fiio Mont Blanc to my recently purchased HiFiMan HE400i & although it sounds good, I really don't have another amp to compare it to.
> 
> The A2 is in my price range so would I really be stepping up in quality of sound? Or are they too similar?
> 
> Sorry I'm still a newbie but I'm learning!




The A2 as in the Asgard 2? or the Beyerdynamic A2. Sorry but you need to be a bit more specific.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Well lookie here, another Alienware owner!


----------



## cuiter23

music alchemist said:


> Well lookie here, another Alienware owner!




Haha I've had my M14x for about 5 years already and still running like new. Much prefer it over my macbook pro. I dont get what the hype is with this apple stuff I rely on my macbook for work and its far from reliable. Runs slowly and freezes up randomly.


----------



## Music Alchemist

cuiter23 said:


> Haha I've had my M14x for about 5 years already and still running like new. Much prefer it over my macbook pro. I dont get what the hype is with this apple stuff I rely on my macbook for work and its far from reliable. Runs slowly and freezes up randomly.


 
  
 Lucky. My M11x is one of the ones that had a production error with the hinges, so although parts of it are built like a tank, other parts are falling apart after owning it for four years. I can't even close it properly, so I just leave it open. But hey, at least it looks cool!
  


Spoiler: Does yours look like this on the back?


----------



## Music Alchemist

Speaking of Alienware and Schiit...I can hear computer noise through my Fulla, but thankfully only when music is not playing.


----------



## cuiter23

music alchemist said:


> Lucky. My M11x is one of the ones that had a production error with the hinges, so although parts of it are built like a tank, other parts are falling apart after owning it for four years. I can't even close it properly, so I just leave it open. But hey, at least it looks cool!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Does yours look like this on the back?




Oh, my hinge cracked as well. I went to my local laptop repair shop and they ordered a backcover for the laptop. Was out about $120 but hey cant expect these things to last forever


----------



## cuiter23

music alchemist said:


> Speaking of Alienware and Schiit...I can hear computer noise through my Fulla, but thankfully only when music is not playing.




Is that with IEMs or full size? Mine is dead silent from 8ohm IEMs to 300ohm full size cans. Thats quite odd have you contacted Schiit?


----------



## Music Alchemist

cuiter23 said:


> Is that with IEMs or full size? Mine is dead silent from 8ohm IEMs to 300ohm full size cans. Thats quite odd have you contacted Schiit?


 
  
 Full-size. (Sony MDR-7506) I'm not worried about it. I'll see if the same thing happens when my HD 700 arrives tomorrow.


----------



## bearFNF

I must have one of the lucky ones, no hinge problem on my M11x. We also have the 14 and 18 in the family. Love Alienware.


----------



## Music Alchemist

bearfnf said:


> I must have one of the lucky ones, no hinge problem on my M11x. We also have the 14 and 18 in the family. Love Alienware.


 
  
 Is yours the R1, R2, or R3? Mine is the R2.
  
 I'm thinking about getting a custom desktop next, but only after I get even better audio gear.


----------



## bearFNF

music alchemist said:


> Is yours the R1, R2, or R3? Mine is the R2.
> 
> I'm thinking about getting a custom desktop next, but only after I get even better audio gear.



It's an R2. I use it for LAN parties and bring it to CanJam and other events so it travels frequently.


----------



## Music Alchemist

bearfnf said:


> It's an R2. I use it for LAN parties and bring it to CanJam and other events so it travels frequently.


 
  
 You really are lucky then, because that's the version that had the most hinge problems.
  
 If you don't mind me asking, how did you become a Contributor? Was it just by posting lots of impressions of audio gear in random threads?


----------



## bearFNF

music alchemist said:


> You really are lucky then, because that's the version that had the most hinge problems.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, how did you become a Contributor? Was it just by posting lots of impressions of audio gear in random threads?



That might be part of it, but I think the major reason for it is due to my help at CanJam at RMAF and other events including canjam-socal. I am still there.  'recovering' I also try to help new forum members when I can.


----------



## Larryp12

I also have The Fiio e12 and I love it, especially with the Fiio x5 but my Schiit Magni is a big step ahead of the e12 when it comes to sound quality with the  HD 650. My Lyr. is a whole flight of stairs ahead of the e12 so my guess is the Asgard would be a significant improvement over the e12.


----------



## reddog

larryp12 said:


> I also have The Fiio e12 and I love it, especially with the Fiio x5 but my Schiit Magni is a big step ahead of the e12 when it comes to sound quality with the  HD 650. My Lyr. is a whole flight of stairs ahead of the e12 so my guess is the Asgard would be a significant improvement over the e12.



+1 Well said, I have all 3 amps and the lyr2 and Asgard 2 sound much better than the Fiio E12. However one would expect desktop amps to sound better than a portable amp.


----------



## Larryp12

Very true. I'm traveling with Fiio e12/x5/combo and ATH-M50x headphones this week and the sound is amazing for a portable rig.


----------



## cuiter23

larryp12 said:


> Very true. I'm traveling with Fiio e12/x5/combo and ATH-M50x headphones this week and the sound is amazing for a portable rig.




Quite an overkill setup for the M50x haha but great setup nonetheless!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

How do the Lyr2 and Asgard2 compare to the Ragnarok (I think you have one unless my wires are crossed!)[
quote name="reddog" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9735#post_11465361"]
+1 Well said, I have all 3 amps and the lyr2 and Asgard 2 sound much better than the Fiio E12. However one would expect desktop amps to sound better than a portable amp.[/quote]


----------



## tafens

exacoustatowner said:


> How do the Lyr2 and Asgard2 compare to the Ragnarok (I think you have one unless my wires are crossed!)




And, it would also be interesting to know how the Magni2/2U compares to the Asgard2 and the others!


----------



## Mr Rick

tafens said:


> And, it would also be interesting to know how the Magni2/2U compares to the Asgard2 and the others!


 
  
 Choosing between the various Schiit amps is really one of personal preference, There is some consensus among those of us that own several of the Schiit models that sonic performance is extremely close from one to another. The differences lie in topology, features, size, and ergonomics.
  
 Comparing the Magni to the Rag is really talking apples and oranges. Depending on your needs / wants and expectations either could be the perfect match for you. Or not.


----------



## Larryp12

Good point but the M-50s are the only closed headphones that I have right now. They travel well.


----------



## tafens

mr rick said:


> Choosing between the various Schiit amps is really one of personal preference, There is some consensus among those of us that own several of the Schiit models that sonic performance is extremely close from one to another. The differences lie in topology, features, size, and ergonomics.




Great info, thanks. Then I won't fret too much over the fact that my budget didn't allow me to go further than the M&M 2U currently. I'm very satisfied with them though, great Schiit that is.

Next in my sights is the Bifrost Uber USB + Valhalla 2 stack, because besides of the (albeit small, but still) sonic upgrade it also 1) looks really cool and 2) it's got them tubes 

Anyway, that won't be until by budget has recovered enough after the M&Ms (plus the customs- and import charges; Those were equivalent of another Magni2U!  )

(edit: some spelling corrected)


----------



## oceans22

cuiter23 said:


> The A2 as in the Asgard 2? or the Beyerdynamic A2. Sorry but you need to be a bit more specific.


 

 I apologize. Yes the Asgard 2. Thanks for replying.


----------



## reddog

exacoustatowner said:


> How do the Lyr2 and Asgard2 compare to the Ragnarok (I think you have one unless my wires are crossed!)[
> quote name="reddog" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9735#post_11465361"]
> +1 Well said, I have all 3 amps and the lyr2 and Asgard 2 sound much better than the Fiio E12. However one would expect desktop amps to sound better than a portable amp.


[/quote]
The Ragnarok is just fantastic in balanced out, however the lyr2 single-ended out put is far better than the Ragnarok. The single end out of the Rag, is a little better than the Asgard 2. I mostly use the Ragnarok for balanced out and I have not used it to run speakers. Please have a good one jamming out.


----------



## David Aldrich

reddog said:


> The Ragnarok is just fantastic in balanced out, however the lyr2 single-ended out put is far better than the Ragnarok. The single end out of the Rag, is a little better than the Asgard 2. I mostly use the Ragnarok for balanced out and I have not used it to run speakers. Please have a good one jamming out.


 
  
 Guess I'll have to pick up a Lyr 2 if I ever get single ended headphones that I'm not willing to cut open.


----------



## reddog

david aldrich said:


> Guess I'll have to pick up a Lyr 2 if I ever get single ended headphones that I'm not willing to cut open.



Cool, I need to lear how to rewire my DT 880 600 ohm cans for balanced operation. I use my Asgard 2 and Lyr2 at secondary listening stations. I primarily use the rag , in balanced mode to drive my Alpha Prime's.


----------



## cuiter23

oceans22 said:


> I apologize. Yes the Asgard 2. Thanks for replying.


 
  
 The E12 is good but the Asgard 2 would be an upgrade in all aspects except in portability.


----------



## David Aldrich

reddog said:


> Cool, I need to lear how to rewire my DT 880 600 ohm cans for balanced operation. I use my Asgard 2 and Lyr2 at secondary listening stations. I primarily use the rag , in balanced mode to drive my Alpha Prime's.


 
  
 Rewiring my T70's was a trying experience, I also added a connector which meant more than just adding new wires. In the end you get a nice balanced setup.


----------



## Reverberation

My first foray into this hobby started with the AKG K7XX drop, and that lead me here to this forum. Since then I've been lost in research, asking questions, and searching for better music sources. I've gone back and forth a few times, but if all goes well, tomorrow I'll join the club and receive a load of Schiit. I've got a Modi 2, and an Asgard 2 coming in and I'm pretty excited. 
  
 I've never heard their products yet, but if even half the reviews are accurate I should be very satisfied. I was very impressed with their customer service. I had read some criticism of the responses people have gotten as brief, and admittedly they were. But they were complete, and to the point. What blew me away was not that when I emailed them with a question, I had a response in less than 5 minutes. Pretty impressive in it's own right, but that wasn't it. It was that it was two minutes to midnight on a Sunday when I had sent the email. When I finally got my order in, I had a confirmation and shipment notification in a couple hours. From order to doorstep will have been less than three days, which isn't bad at all. (I'm sure that varies by location, but I'm luckily only a state away).


----------



## hodgjy

reverberation said:


> My first foray into this hobby started with the AKG K7XX drop, and that lead me here to this forum. Since then I've been lost in research, asking questions, and searching for better music sources. I've gone back and forth a few times, but if all goes well, tomorrow I'll join the club and receive a load of Schiit. I've got a Modi 2, and an Asgard 2 coming in and I'm pretty excited.
> 
> I've never heard their products yet, but if even half the reviews are accurate I should be very satisfied. I was very impressed with their customer service. I had read some criticism of the responses people have gotten as brief, and admittedly they were. But they were complete, and to the point. What blew me away was not that when I emailed them with a question, I had a response in less than 5 minutes. Pretty impressive in it's own right, but that wasn't it. It was that it was two minutes to midnight on a Sunday when I had sent the email. When I finally got my order in, I had a confirmation and shipment notification in a couple hours. From order to doorstep will have been less than three days, which isn't bad at all. (I'm sure that varies by location, but I'm luckily only a state away).


 
 The Asgard 2 will serve you well. It's very clean power that reveals any flaws in the DAC, including the noise floor. That's right--the noise floor is lower than many sources.


----------



## oceans22

cuiter23 said:


> The E12 is good but the Asgard 2 would be an upgrade in all aspects except in portability.




Great! Thanks for replying I appreciate your input!


----------



## 520RanchBro

reverberation said:


> My first foray into this hobby started with the AKG K7XX drop, and that lead me here to this forum. Since then I've been lost in research, asking questions, and searching for better music sources. I've gone back and forth a few times, but if all goes well, tomorrow I'll join the club and receive a load of Schiit. I've got a Modi 2, and an Asgard 2 coming in and I'm pretty excited.
> 
> I've never heard their products yet, but if even half the reviews are accurate I should be very satisfied. I was very impressed with their customer service. I had read some criticism of the responses people have gotten as brief, and admittedly they were. But they were complete, and to the point. What blew me away was not that when I emailed them with a question, I had a response in less than 5 minutes. Pretty impressive in it's own right, but that wasn't it. It was that it was two minutes to midnight on a Sunday when I had sent the email. When I finally got my order in, I had a confirmation and shipment notification in a couple hours. From order to doorstep will have been less than three days, which isn't bad at all. (I'm sure that varies by location, but I'm luckily only a state away).


 

 I've got the Modi 2 Uber and Asgard 2 on my desk at home, it's really an incredible setup that I don't feel I'll need to upgrade for years to come unless I get some very hard to drive headphones.


----------



## necropimp

i randomly click on this forum and it's just schiit everywhere

one of these days i will stop holding it in and put some schiit on my desk


i'm thinking magni/modi


----------



## StanD

520ranchbro said:


> I've got the Modi 2 Uber and Asgard 2 on my desk at home, it's really an incredible setup that I don't feel I'll need to upgrade for years to come unless I get some very hard to drive headphones.


 
 Very sensible and realistic, your wallet will thank you. Your biggest improvements or changes will be with headphones, oops there goes the wallet again.


----------



## 520RanchBro

stand said:


> Very sensible and realistic, your wallet will thank you. Your biggest improvements or changes will be with headphones, oops there goes the wallet again.


 

 I'm hoping I cn stick to it. I just recently overcame an addiction to guitar pedals and I realized it's more fun to just really get the gear I have and focus on playing rather than lusting after every new pedal. I'm trying to take that philosophy in to my recently acquired head-fi hobby. I assembled a decent desktop and portable setup and now I'm just going to enjoy my music. And slowly save up for an Audeze LCD-X...


----------



## cuiter23

520ranchbro said:


> I'm hoping I cn stick to it. I just recently overcame an addiction to guitar pedals and I realized it's more fun to just really get the gear I have and focus on playing rather than lusting after every new pedal. I'm trying to take that philosophy in to my recently acquired head-fi hobby. I assembled a decent desktop and portable setup and now I'm just going to enjoy my music. And slowly save up for an Audeze LCD-X...


 
  
 Hey, sorry for being a bit off topic but just wondering how you like your Geek Out 450. I just picked up the 720 version from a fellow head-fier on here and just wondering how it compared to your Asgard 2 (I have the Asgard 2 as well).
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## tafens

reverberation said:


> My first foray into this hobby started with the AKG K7XX drop, and that lead me here to this forum. Since then I've been lost in research, asking questions, and searching for better music sources. I've gone back and forth a few times, but if all goes well, tomorrow I'll join the club and receive a load of Schiit. I've got a Modi 2, and an Asgard 2 coming in and I'm pretty excited.




Welcome, and may the Schiit be always in your favour *




reverberation said:


> I've never heard their products yet, but if even half the reviews are accurate I should be very satisfied.




I'm very satisfied with mine (M&M 2U), and of what I've read here, most are. Please post your impressions.



reverberation said:


> I was very impressed with their customer service. I had read some criticism of the responses people have gotten as brief, and admittedly they were. But they were complete, and to the point. What blew me away was not that when I emailed them with a question, I had a response in less than 5 minutes. Pretty impressive in it's own right, but that wasn't it. It was that it was two minutes to midnight on a Sunday when I had sent the email. When I finally got my order in, I had a confirmation and shipment notification in a couple hours.



I second that. I ordered mine on a friday and I got the delivery notification and tracking number in mere hours. Then it took a week to arrive by FedEx, but that was expected as I live in overseas Northern Europe (Sweden).
I emailed a few questions to the support later and always got a reply quickly (within the hour). Answers were brief, but to the point and helpful. I also read the criticism, but in my experience it is completely unfounded.

*) paraphrased from "The Hunger 
Games": "May the odds be always in your favour". Another one would be (from Star Wars): "May the Schiit be with you". Anyone know more/better ones?


----------



## 520RanchBro

cuiter23 said:


> Hey, sorry for being a bit off topic but just wondering how you like your Geek Out 450. I just picked up the 720 version from a fellow head-fier on here and just wondering how it compared to your Asgard 2 (I have the Asgard 2 as well).
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

 Haven't done any direct comparisons but with IEMs it sounds just as good as the Asgard, the Asgard has a bit more power but the Geek Out has just as impressive of sound quality.


----------



## cuiter23

520ranchbro said:


> Haven't done any direct comparisons but with IEMs it sounds just as good as the Asgard, the Asgard has a bit more power but the Geek Out has just as impressive of sound quality.




Nice! I'm expecting my Geek Out to surpass my modi/asgard2 combo in every aspect except in power output.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I keep feeling the need to review the Magni and Modi, but I have nothing to compare them to! I'll have to review the Magni after I play around with the Lyr2 for a bit, and possibly after I convince the audio salesman dude to let me use the Music Hall amp as well.


----------



## 520RanchBro

pirakaphile said:


> I keep feeling the need to review the Magni and Modi, but I have nothing to compare them to! I'll have to review the Magni after I play around with the Lyr2 for a bit, and possibly after I convince the audio salesman dude to let me use the Music Hall amp as well.


 
 Yeah especially with amps and DACs. it's really hard to write a review without a frame of reference and something to benchmark them. That keeps me from reviewing my ASgard 2. Definitely going to some detailed impressions on my Schiit stack vs the Geek Out though. Not a super fair competition but they actually sound quite similar.


----------



## Pirakaphile

520ranchbro said:


> Yeah especially with amps and DACs. it's really hard to write a review without a frame of reference and something to benchmark them. That keeps me from reviewing my ASgard 2. Definitely going to some detailed impressions on my Schiit stack vs the Geek Out though. Not a super fair competition but they actually sound quite similar.


 
 I'd wait until you've listened to at least three amp/DACs to make a comparison.


----------



## icebrain1

Hello Head-Fi'ers, I just found this thread now, just after starting different thread asking if I should purchase the Asgard2 or the Lyr2.
 Would you guys mind checking the thread I started here the link on Head-Fi and give me your opinions thanks.
  
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/761253/lyr-2-or-asgard-2 
  
 I'm also a proud owner of the Schiit Vali and am looking for an upgrade it would be great to get your opinions.
 Thanks a ton.


----------



## Lupino

I'm also trying to determine what amp (solid state or tubes) would be a good choice for me. I will be listening with HD650 headphones or with Hifiman RE-600 IEM's.
 The impedance is quite different for each so I'm not sure if I should go for the Asgard 2, Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2. Or maybe it doesn't matter that much?


----------



## icebrain1

lupino said:


> I'm also trying to determine what amp (solid state or tubes) would be a good choice for me. I will be listening with HD650 headphones or with Hifiman RE-600 IEM's.
> The impedance is quite different for each so I'm not sure if I should go for the Asgard 2, Valhalla 2 or Lyr 2. Or maybe it doesn't matter that much?




From what ive noticed/read so far it seems that solid state amps give an average ammount of power so they should be be good for lower impedence cans (with definite exceptions, where as tubes are better suited for high impedence headphones. Thats part of the reason im stuck between either the Lyr2 or the Asgard 2 because the Asgard 2 is a hybrid amp so not sure how they would compare to normal amps. Im looking for amp that pair the best with any heasphone I plan to use. 

sorry im not very experienced about audio yet only Amp I realy tried so far is the Vali, so not really ly in a position to compare. 
Thanks.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

The Lyr is hybrid and works beautifully with my 42 Ohm HE-560. The Asgard is SS. The Valhalla is all tube and best for hi impedance HP.


icebrain1 said:


> From what ive noticed/read so far it seems that solid state amps give an average ammount of power so they should be be good for lower impedence cans (with definite exceptions, where as tubes are better suited for high impedence headphones. Thats part of the reason im stuck between either the Lyr2 or the Asgard 2 because the Asgard 2 is a hybrid amp so not sure how they would compare to normal amps. Im looking for amp that pair the best with any heasphone I plan to use.
> 
> sorry im not very experienced about audio yet only Amp I realy tried so far is the Vali, so not really ly in a position to compare.
> Thanks.


----------



## icebrain1

exacoustatowner said:


> The Lyr is hybrid and works beautifully with my 42 Ohm HE-560. The Asgard is SS. The Valhalla is all tube and best for hi impedance HP.




Thanks for clarifying. Ty.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Ty,
You are welcome. 
quote name="icebrain1" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9765#post_11471390"]
Thanks for clarifying. Ty.[/quote]


----------



## David Aldrich

For IEM's stick to Asgard 2, for the most versatile full size headphone amp of the three Lyr 2.


----------



## icebrain1

david aldrich said:


> For IEM's stick to Asgard 2, for the most versatile full size headphone amp of the three Lyr 2.



Ya I seem to be leaning towards the Lyr2 thanks for the advice.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

You can swap out tubes at any time in the future
quote name="icebrain1" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9765#post_11471419"]
Ya I seem to be leaning towards the Lyr2 thanks for the advice.[/quote]


----------



## money4me247

david aldrich said:


> For IEM's stick to Asgard 2, for the most versatile full size headphone amp of the three Lyr 2.



you already know this, but just to clarify for people who don't: lyr 2 can handle iems now too with its low gain switch, and power even the hard to drive planars (except for maybe the he-6). that is what david means by more versatile.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I got the Lyr at discount since I've Planars (HE-560). If I used IEM the Lr2 would be my pick! Other than the HE-6, I think the Lyr2 can drive just about ANY HP
quote name="money4me247" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9765#post_11471427"]i mean you already know this, but just to clarify for people who don't: lyr 2 can handle iems now too with its low gain switch, and power even the hard to drive planars (except for maybe the he-6). that is what he means by more versatile.
[/quote]


----------



## icebrain1

exacoustatowner said:


> You can swap out tubes at any time in the future
> quote name="icebrain1" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9765#post_11471419"]
> Ya I seem to be leaning towards the Lyr2 thanks for the advice.


[/quote]




money4me247 said:


> i mean you already know this, but just to clarify for people who don't: lyr 2 can handle iems now too with its low gain switch, and power even the hard to drive planars (except for maybe the he-6). that is what he means by more versatile.




Thanks guys, I think I'll go with the Lyr2 just need to save up a bit more for it. 

Thanks.


----------



## laMonaca

Hello everyone!
 Anyone is using Xonar DX -> Magni -> Beyers 250 ohm?
 I'd like to know which range of volume you set on Magni tipically.


----------



## Pirakaphile

lamonaca said:


> Hello everyone!
> Anyone is using Xonar DX -> Magni -> Beyers 250 ohm?
> I'd like to know which range of volume you set on Magni tipically.


 
 You really need to know? Why not just listen and decide how loud you want it yourself?


----------



## laMonaca

pirakaphile said:


> You really need to know? Why not just listen and decide how loud you want it yourself?


 
 That's because for not "saturating" the output of DX with current EQ I have to turn up Magni a lot - 50 to 75%, seems a lot to me.


----------



## Mr Rick

lamonaca said:


> That's because for not "saturating" the output of DX with current EQ I have to turn up Magni a lot - 50 to 75%, seems a lot to me.


 
  
 Driven properly the Magni will provide ear splitting volume at the 12 o'clock position. If yours does not, chances are your input to the Magni is low.


----------



## Pirakaphile

lamonaca said:


> That's because for not "saturating" the output of DX with current EQ I have to turn up Magni a lot - 50 to 75%, seems a lot to me.


 
 Maybe the DX doesn't have a very high output voltage? The Magni has crazy power and you shouldn't be needing to turn it up so far.


----------



## laMonaca

mr rick said:


> Driven properly the Magni will provide ear splitting volume at the 12 o'clock position. If yours does not, chances are your input to the Magni is low.


 
 Can it be because Magni is the driver here? DX's output is a line out, not amped.


----------



## Mr Rick

lamonaca said:


> Can it be because Magni is the driver here? DX's output is a line out, not amped.


 
  
 EQ should come *before *the amp, not after it.


----------



## RRod

lamonaca said:


> That's because for not "saturating" the output of DX with current EQ I have to turn up Magni a lot - 50 to 75%, seems a lot to me.


 
  
 There's no issue in using the pot in that range if you're getting the volume you need; it's not like Schiit expects you only to use from 7:00 to Noon.


----------



## laMonaca

mr rick said:


> EQ should come *before *the amp, not after it.


 
 I'm using the Xonar driver's EQ, not a physical one.
 So it's normal, as it seems.

 Given the same source, is it better low volume - high Magni or viceversa?


----------



## bearFNF

lamonaca said:


> I'm using the Xonar driver's EQ, not a physical one.
> 
> So it's normal, as it seems.
> 
> ...



Source should be max.
Control listening volume with magni.


----------



## bretemm

I have the Magni and modi and might get the Bifrost, but, 
What els can I use the bifrost with? 
Could I use it with my Marantz sr5009? 

I recently compared my Magni and Modi to my Marantz headphone jack and Schiit sounds better, 

So what would be recomened to be able to integrate the Bifrost? 

I mainly listen to the radio inwhich I would like it if I could connect it to Schiit or something. 

IM limited to earbuds because I can't get strong magnets by my head. 

Thanks


----------



## Tuco1965

My Bifrost feeds both my Lyr and my Yamaha receiver in my main speaker system.  I must say it sounds fantastic.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so I have a marantz receiver so, would I just have to connect the RCA out to the audio input for my DVD RCA input and it should work? 





tuco1965 said:


> My Bifrost feeds both my Lyr and my Yamaha receiver in my main speaker system.  I must say it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Tuco1965

I use the CD input on my receiver but yeah the DVD input would be fine also.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so with using the Bifrost, what difference do you hear? 
When I'm using just my iPod vs through my magnia and modi, they make my music have more "space" and detail vs just my iPod headphone jack, 
Thanks! 





tuco1965 said:


> I use the CD input on my receiver but yeah the DVD input would be fine also.


----------



## Tuco1965

All I can say is that when I close my eyes, the gear disappears.  My speaker system has never sounded so good.


----------



## bretemm

Awesome, I might try my magni with the front RCA inputs and see how it sounds (just as a test) then I'll definetly get the Bifrost, I hope when I get it Schiit dosnt upgrade it, they've recently came out with the magni and modi 2 





tuco1965 said:


> All I can say is that when I close my eyes, the gear disappears.  My speaker system has never sounded so good.


----------



## Tuco1965

I've run my Modi through the same system.  It sounds good, but the Bifrost just seems to have more space and sound stage.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Awesome, I might try my magni with the front RCA inputs and see how it sounds (just as a test) then I'll definetly get the Bifrost, I hope when I get it Schiit dosnt upgrade it, they've recently came out with the magni and modi 2


 
  
 The concept behind the Bifrost is that upgrades are modular.  I think you'd be safe for a while with the Uber analog upgrade, and Gen 2 USB, if you need USB.  That said, there could always be some trickle down from newer models.


----------



## bretemm

Ok I just tried the Magni with the front RCA inputs, it worked but only the front speakers and bass worked (probably the direct or pure option is what I'll have to mess with?) it had a stronger sound but not as open sounding like with earbuds, I hope the Bifrost will use all my speakers by using the back RCA inputs


----------



## bretemm

Yea, I just tried the magni and the sound was stronger but not as open as using it the regular way with earbuds, I think I'll probably will get the Bifrost, I hope all my speakers work with it using the back RCA inputs


tuco1965 said:


> I've run my Modi through the same system.  It sounds good, but the Bifrost just seems to have more space and sound stage.


----------



## Tuco1965

It' sounds like you are trying to listen in a surround mode. I do all my music listening in stereo only. Just my main Mirage speakers and my Energy sub. l'm enveloped in sound.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, the cords were to short to put it i top of the marantz so I had to ballance inbetween the magni and optical audio that dosnt stay by itself too well so I didn't mess with the settings allot, I hope my whole 5.1 works with it by the back RCA inputs 





tuco1965 said:


> It' sounds like you are trying to listen in a surround mode. I do all my music listening in stereo only. Just my main Mirage speakers and my Energy sub. l'm enveloped in sound.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Ok, the cords were to short to put it i top of the marantz so I had to ballance inbetween the magni and optical audio that dosnt stay by itself too well so I didn't mess with the settings allot, I hope my whole 5.1 works with it by the back RCA inputs


 
  
 You're only going to get stereo out of the DAC into the amp.  That said, the amp (receiver) probably has some setting to do "fake" surround.  My old Kenwood sounds pretty good with Circle Surround "Music," and there are a couple others (Neo and Pro Logic).  But I've not tried them with an RCA in, as all my connections are S/P-DIF, which may or may not matter.  My Yamaha has similar internal modes, but again, I only have an S/P-DIF connection.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so even with the Bifrost not all my speakers will work? 





thurstonx said:


> You're only going to get stereo out of the DAC into the amp.  That said, the amp (receiver) probably has some setting to do "fake" surround.  My old Kenwood sounds pretty good with Circle Surround "Music," and there are a couple others (Neo and Pro Logic).  But I've not tried them with an RCA in, as all my connections are S/P-DIF, which may or may not matter.  My Yamaha has similar internal modes, but again, I only have an S/P-DIF connection.


O





tuco1965 said:


> It' sounds like you are trying to listen in a surround mode. I do all my music listening in stereo only. Just my main Mirage speakers and my Energy sub. l'm enveloped in sound.[/quote


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, so even with the Bifrost not all my speakers will work?
> O
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think your going to find that these Stereo DACs support decoding surround sound. so far as I know, these are two channel devices.


----------



## Tuco1965

As Thurston mentioned there will likely be some surround settings on your receiver if you want to drive all of your speakers. The Bifrost is only a stereo source though. I prefer to listen the way it's recorded.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, Nick T from Schiit emailed me back and he said Schiit only works with 2 channels, my dad only uses 2 floor towers for his music and it sounds good, 
I think I might latter set it up with the Bifrost after I get towers 


tuco1965 said:


> As Thurston mentioned there will likely be some surround settings on your receiver if you want to drive all of your speakers. The Bifrost is only a stereo source though. I prefer to listen the way it's recorded.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I've listened to plenty of 5 or 5.1 SACD's through my Yamaha RXV657 Receiver. Plenty of options for that! The selection is limited 
With the right source and equipment Stereo can be amazing. Lately most of my listening has been headphone based. Oppo BDP 105D to Schiit Lyr to HE-560
quote name="bretemm" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/9795#post_11476874"]Ok, Nick T from Schiit emailed me back and he said Schiit only works with 2 channels, my dad only uses 2 floor towers for his music and it sounds good, 
I think I might latter set it up with the Bifrost after I get towers 
[/quote]


----------



## Netrum

This fall I might upgrade my schiit setup.
I am looking at buying the Lyr 2 and Modi 2 Uber to replace my asgard 2 and modi.
I really want to try tubes. And the lyr looks perfect for my needs.
So what do you all think?
Should i?
The Lyr 2 will drive my Fidelio X2 cans.
And most likely something much more expensive later on.


----------



## money4me247

lyr 2 will drive everything except the he6. if u wanna try tube rolling tho, having to get a pair of matched tubes rly adds up. think project ember from garage1217 may be a better fit.

for the dac, i dont think its worth upgrading the modi to the modi 2 uber. spent as well save that until you can make a bigger jump into midfi dacs.


----------



## Netrum

Perhaps the Bifrost Uber with usb gen 2 is a better choice for dac.
I want to keep to schiit. 
I am happy with them and i see no reason for that to change.


----------



## money4me247

netrum said:


> Perhaps the Bifrost Uber with usb gen 2 is a better choice for dac.
> I want to keep to schiit.
> I am happy with them and i see no reason for that to change.




ahh thats fine. i have the lyr2 & bifrost combo. it works. cant comment how much of an improvement it'll be over the asgard&modi, but most likely much less than ppl may make it sound. lyr2+bifrost is almost a $1000 combo. probably more beneficial for you to spend that money on a nicer pair of headphones first, then upgrade to the mid-fi schiit combo as headphones have a bigger impact on your sound quality & the $300 x2 doesn't seem to warrant such an expensive upgrade.


----------



## crixnet

money4me247 said:


> netrum said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps the Bifrost Uber with usb gen 2 is a better choice for dac.
> ...




When researching gear for my new system, I asked Schiit what the differences in sound quality were between the Ashard 2/Magni Uber stack versus the Bifrost Uber/Lyr 2 stack. They didn't offer much detail but said that the Bifrost Uber's Gugnir-derived discrete analog stage would deliver substantially better performance and detail than the Magni Uber would. Also, they said the Lyr 2 was obviously much more powerful than the Asgard 2 would offer the ability to better match different phones with tube rolls. 

I own the X2 and it is an amazing HP at any price. Very comfortable, astounding build quality and It sounds great with my system. It's low price belies its value, but, hey, I'm not complaining!


----------



## money4me247

the thing is that realistically headphones account for the majority of the sound quality, so it wld make sense to spend the majority of your budget into the headphones.

it's like buying a cheap tv but getting a rly expensive av receiver & a fancy remote control.

but as always, just my personal opinion & recommendation. actual budgeting decisions are a personal matter & whatever you feel comfortable w is chill.


----------



## Netrum

Money is not a problem. And I am looking to upgrade for the long haul.


----------



## crixnet

money4me247 said:


> the thing is that realistically headphones account for the majority of the sound quality, so it wld make sense to spend the majority of your budget into the headphones.
> 
> it's like buying a cheap tv but getting a rly expensive av receiver & a fancy remote control.
> 
> but as always, just my personal opinion & recommendation. actual budgeting decisions are a personal matter & whatever you feel comfortable w is chill.




I completely agree that money spent on phones is the best investment for improving SQ. That said, this whole audio/audiophile thing is usually a journey taken in steps. Sometimes in big steps, but often in smaller steps, depending on budget. 

I guess my point was that the X2 is a phone that punches above its price point, in my experience besting more expensive cans in most ways. It isn't perfect, but it's a great "gateway" phone that likely leads to wanting to strive for better and better sonic experiences. And it pairs like a mofo with the Bifrost Uber and Lyr 2. 

But I hear you on the merits of budgeting for great headphones first. Makes sense.


----------



## money4me247

netrum said:


> Money is not a problem. And I am looking to upgrade for the long haul.


 
 not even considering money, it just makes more sense to get the headphones first because then you can pick an amp/dac that best pairs with them & tunes the sound signature just the way you like to something you really enjoy. much easier that way than trying to find a headphone that changes just the right way with your pre-existing external set-up. though honestly (imo), the lyr 2 is a bit warm & the bifrost is a bit bright so in combination, it shouldn't really really cause too big of an issue with matching.


----------



## hodgjy

money4me247 said:


> not even considering money, it just makes more sense to get the headphones first because then you can pick an amp/dac that best pairs with them & tunes the sound signature just the way you like to something you really enjoy. much easier that way than trying to find a headphone that changes just the right way with your pre-existing external set-up. though honestly (imo), the lyr 2 is a bit warm & the bifrost is a bit bright so in combination, it shouldn't really really cause too big of an issue with matching.


 
 Bifrost is not bright. It's extended with a hint of grain in the treble, but I'd say it's even slightly warm of neutral. Just a hint.


----------



## Netrum

My X2's are brand new. And I am also waiting til october before buying the amp and a new dac.


----------



## money4me247

hodgjy said:


> Bifrost is not bright. It's extended with a hint of grain in the treble, but I'd say it's even slightly warm of neutral. Just a hint.


 
 I politely disagree. only brighter dacs I've heard are a few sabre implementations ones. I categorize it as a brighter than neutral. ymmv of course.


----------



## hodgjy

money4me247 said:


> I politely disagree. only brighter dacs I've heard are a few sabre implementations ones. I categorize it as a brighter than neutral. ymmv of course.


 
 I guess we all hear things differently.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

crixnet said:


> When researching gear for my new system, I asked Schiit what the differences in sound quality were between the Ashard 2/Magni Uber stack versus the Bifrost Uber/Lyr 2 stack. They didn't offer much detail but said that the Bifrost Uber's Gugnir-derived discrete analog stage would deliver substantially better performance and detail than the Magni Uber would. Also, they said the Lyr 2 was obviously much more powerful than the Asgard 2 would offer the ability to better match different phones with tube rolls.
> 
> I own the X2 and it is an amazing HP at any price. Very comfortable, astounding build quality and It sounds great with my system. It's low price belies its value, but, hey, I'm not complaining!



I think people may not always consider the analog components and focus on the D/A chip. Sounds like Schiit was referring to that.
I wonder how much of the difference between middle quality and high end is in the analog circuitry. Otherwise all DACs would sound the same if they use the same chip


----------



## David Aldrich

It's my belief that the analog circuit will have a more profound effect on the overall sound of a DAC than the D/A chip itself.
  
 However with a setup like the Yggdrasil and true R2R ladder design that goes straight out the window.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

That's my impression





david aldrich said:


> It's my belief that the analog circuit will have a more profound effect on the overall sound of a DAC than the D/A chip itself.
> 
> However with a setup like the Yggdrasil and true R2R ladder design that goes straight out the window.
> [/quote
> ...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

At what level of audio equipment does the DAC make a significant improvement? I agree that the headphones make the most difference. Disclosure: I bought an Oppo BDP-105D after wanting to improve my sound and BluRay picture while being able to play my SACD's and have 7.1 Analog Out to feed my Yamaha RXV657 Natural Sound A/V. The Oppo has gathered many rave reviews from the audiophile and videophile press. Some of the reviewers say it rivals their multiple thousands of dollars dedicated DAC's and it has multiple inputs. I've tried DL DSD tracks and been pleased.
Currently it's going XLR out to a balanced only RANE DEQ60L then balanced out to a transformer into the Lyr or Yamaha or Denon DRA 636R for speakers.or HiFIMan HE-560
I generally prefer the Lyr although the Denon has great headphone out
Given the high marks for it's DAC I'm wondering if the Gungnir would be worth trying since I 'm already past "mid-Fi " with the Oppo.


----------



## David Aldrich

That's the million dollar question. I'm sitting here listening to Indie artist on YouTube with Beyer T70's and a Fulla, I have a Gungnir and Meyer Audio Corda HA-II sitting right next to me.
  
 Maybe I'm easy to please.


----------



## laMonaca

I wouldn't define T70 an "easy taste", regarding money


----------



## wink

There are a lot of Schiit owners who don't own and Schiit products.  They just treat their gear badly.


----------



## namhkim

Just got Valhalla + Audeze EL-8 open! Love it!!


----------



## Tuco1965

Congrats on the new gear. Get lost in the music now.


----------



## namhkim

Thanx! I'm watching Miami open tennis with them now~! haha, the ball hitting sound really resonates !!


----------



## iceman16221

Quote:


namhkim said:


> Just got Valhalla + Audeze EL-8 open! Love it!!


 
 I have the same setup and I love it too!!!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

namhkim said:


> Just got Valhalla + Audeze EL-8 open! Love it!!



Nice! Enjoy! I'm loving the Lyr. I'd love to hear the Valhalla


----------



## genclaymore

namhkim said:


> Thanx! I'm watching Miami open tennis with them now~! haha, the ball hitting sound really resonates !!


 

 I had that same similar effect when I watched Marvel Agent Carter when the police car was driving thru the Dock with the siren that was doing the same thing. with my HE-500. Cought me off guard for a sec as I started to look out my window even tho police cars sirens doesn't sound like that.


----------



## Rossliew

Received the Mani today. 
  
 Paired with my Rega RP6 and Magni 2 into the Oppo PM-2 = awesome sound with loads of PRAT from my metal tunes. 
  
 This little phono stage is definitely a must buy for those just into vinyl playback and maybe even for more serious audiophiles. Highly recommended!


----------



## BDM-Fi

rossliew said:


> Received the Mani today.
> 
> Paired with my Rega RP6 and Magni 2 into the Oppo PM-2 = awesome sound with loads of PRAT from my metal tunes.
> 
> This little phono stage is definitely a must buy for those just into vinyl playback and maybe even for more serious audiophiles. Highly recommended!



Interesting, I'm eyeing an RP6 as well and there don't seem to be many reviews out on the Mani. Were you able to compare it with other phono stages?

Are you running an exact cartridge on the rega?


----------



## 520RanchBro

I want to know so badly how the Mani compares to the Pro-ject Phono Box S (my current phono pre). They're about in the same price range but Schiit's bang for buck is pretty incredible.


----------



## BDM-Fi

520ranchbro said:


> I want to know so badly how the Mani compares to the Pro-ject Phono Box S (my current phono pre). They're about in the same price range but Schiit's bang for buck is pretty incredible.



Purrin compared the Mani favourably to a phono box mkII if that helps you (search for "ch*ngstar" Mani to find out!)


----------



## funkymartyn

I picked up a Cambridge audio  phono stag amp the other week for about £65.......went in to check out the pro-ject one...bu this was neater..better build, and you can turn it on an off at the front.......well pleased...
 whats the info , price, pics, on this Mani ?
  
  
 just saw a picture of this Mani, with a rear on / off switch......same as my Magni  2.......
 I prefer the camb to be honest......


----------



## funkymartyn

my camb audio for £65........from amazon, or richer sounds.....this is only the  m/m stage one by the way..


----------



## David Aldrich

Sometimes old hardware impresses me, this is one of those times.


----------



## 520RanchBro

funkymartyn said:


> I picked up a Cambridge audio  phono stag amp the other week for about £65.......went in to check out the pro-ject one...bu this was neater..better build, and you can turn it on an off at the front.......well pleased...
> whats the info , price, pics, on this Mani ?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Weird, my Pro-ject Phono Box S can be turned on in the front as well, must have been a different model of theirs that you looked at. I'm mostly just looking for sound comparisons with the Mani, not really worried about where the power switch is, as everything is out in the open on my desk so reaching 3 more inches isn't a big deal.


----------



## jaaron53

How does the magni/modi setup sound with the likes of the beyer dt-770 250 ohms or sennheiser hd600


----------



## Defiant00

jaaron53 said:


> How does the magni/modi setup sound with the likes of the beyer dt-770 250 ohms or sennheiser hd600




Clear, clean and neutral. It'll basically sound like the headphones, but won't give you any extra coloration if you find either to be to harsh or bright.

I personally think it sounds very good with the hd600 (and the beyers as well, but I've only heard those a couple times), but I do prefer a clean solid-state sound.


----------



## StanD

defiant00 said:


> Clear, clean and neutral. It'll basically sound like the headphones, but won't give you any extra coloration if you find either to be to harsh or bright.
> 
> I personally think it sounds very good with the hd600 (and the beyers as well, but I've only heard those a couple times), but I do prefer a clean solid-state sound.


 
 +1


----------



## Rossliew

bdm-fi said:


> Interesting, I'm eyeing an RP6 as well and there don't seem to be many reviews out on the Mani. Were you able to compare it with other phono stages?
> 
> Are you running an exact cartridge on the rega?


 

 Yup, running the Exact catridge. I was only able to compare to an existing DIY one I have called the Frank Acoustics' Pipit (think you can google for some reviews - its pretty renowned here in Malaysia) which has adjustable loading and capacitance as well. Its an awesome two box set up (separate heavy PSU). For the price, i would say the Mani is a giant in itself. I'm not too good at words but i find the Mani to be MUSICAL and most times, that is what it all boils down to.


----------



## Rossliew

jaaron53 said:


> How does the magni/modi setup sound with the likes of the beyer dt-770 250 ohms or sennheiser hd600


 

 The Magni gives the HD600 a tighter, leaner sound typical of solid state equipment and i would say it pairs very well. Comparatively, the Vali gives the HD600 a fuller, more rounded sound which i believe is due to the tube stage.


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> The Magni gives the HD600 a tighter, leaner sound typical of solid state equipment and i would say it pairs very well. Comparatively, the Vali gives the HD600 a fuller, more rounded sound which i believe is due to the tube stage.


 
 If you A/B the Magni and the Vali using a switch, other than differences in power, one would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Been there done that.


----------



## Rossliew

Haven't done a direct A/B but what i heard with my ears was a fuller sounding Vali and a definite leaner sounding Magni. IMO.


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> Haven't done a direct A/B but what i heard with my ears was a fuller sounding Vali and a definite leaner sounding Magni. IMO.


 
 You might want to read up on Human Echoic Memory. We are not capable of remembering details beyond a few seconds (about 4) this makes such comparisons are flawed. One needs to use a switch and carefully match volumes due to another human problem, "Equal Loudness Contour." Not to mention expectation bias.


----------



## Rossliew

stand said:


> You might want to read up on Human Echoic Memory. We are not capable of remembering details beyond a few seconds (about 4) this makes such comparisons are flawed. One needs to use a switch and carefully match volumes due to another human problem, "Equal Loudness Contour." Not to mention expectation bias.


 

 Fair point but we are in this to enjoy the music, well, at least I am, not sure about others tho.


----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


> Fair point but we are in this to enjoy the music, well, at least I am, not sure about others tho.


 
 I don't know about how challenging the means of substantiating a claim has anything to do with how one enjoys music. I like to provide balance to the discussion.


----------



## Rossliew




----------



## StanD

rossliew said:


>


 
 I'll drink to that.


----------



## Tuco1965

Pretty early for that people.


----------



## StanD

tuco1965 said:


> Pretty early for that people.


 
 Seltzer water.


----------



## Pirakaphile

It's never too early to get drunk and listen to music!


----------



## superjawes

pirakaphile said:


> It's never too early to get drunk and listen to music!


Unless you're at work. How do you think we afford this schiit?


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> It's never too early to get drunk and listen to music!


 
  
  


superjawes said:


> Unless you're at work. How do you think we afford this schiit?


 
 Getting Schiit faced at work may not be a good idea.


----------



## Pirakaphile

superjawes said:


> Unless you're at work. How do you think we afford this schiit?


 
 With your second job that you work for no other reason than to afford equipment?


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> Getting Schiit faced at work may not be a good idea.


 
 unless you work as a professional wine taster


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> Getting Schiit faced at work may not be a good idea.


 
  
  


money4me247 said:


> unless you work as a professional wine taster


 
 Not so sure about that as one needs to keep their Schiit straight. I wouldn't want to do any critical testing of audio gear while blasted.


----------



## superjawes

Yeah, your sense of taste will definitely be affected by our BAC. I'm pretty sure that alcohol tasters do more spitting than swallowing...


----------



## StanD

superjawes said:


> Yeah, your sense of taste will definitely be affected by our BAC. I'm pretty sure that alcohol tasters do more spitting than swallowing...


 
 Either that or they'll be looking for some new Schiit to do for a living.


----------



## crixnet

stand said:


> stand said:
> 
> 
> > Getting Schiit faced at work may not be a good idea. :blink:
> ...




OK, Stan, tha t means no CanJam for you!


----------



## StanD

crixnet said:


> OK, Stan, tha t means no CanJam for you!


 
 I'm devastated.


----------



## crixnet

stand said:


> crixnet said:
> 
> 
> > OK, Stan, tha t means no CanJam for you!
> ...




Ha!


----------



## David Aldrich

stand said:


> Getting Schiit faced at work may not be a good idea.


 

 What if you work for Schiit?


----------



## crixnet

david aldrich said:


> stand said:
> 
> 
> > Getting Schiit faced at work may not be a good idea.
> ...


 

 Then you're obligated to show your Schiit face every day.


----------



## David Aldrich

In the immortal words of Eddie.


----------



## hodgjy

I feel like I need a support group. Or a confessional. Something along those lines. Because today, I almost did it again. I almost bought a different DAC. I can't help it, I am always so tempted.
  
 Even though my Bifrost Uber sounds great, I'm always tempted to buy a new DAC that costs more. I had two different DACs in my shopping cart at various times and almost hit submit several times.
  
 But, I chickened out and didn't buy anything. Then, I got home and fired up my Bifrost again. Sonic bliss. 
  
 I need help. Bifrost does everything wonderfully, but I always try to have an emotional affair on it.


----------



## icebrain1

hodgjy said:


> I feel like I need a support group. Or a confessional. Something along those lines. Because today, I almost did it again. I almost bought a different DAC. I can't help it, I am always so tempted.
> 
> Even though my Bifrost Uber sounds great, I'm always tempted to buy a new DAC that costs more. I had two different DACs in my shopping cart at various times and almost hit submit several times.
> 
> ...


 

 Hehe, ya the quest for the best never seems to end.
 I'm hoping to pickup a Bitfrost for my next upgrade after I get my Lyr 2 and He-400.
  
 What DAC were you about to cheat on your Bitfrost with? lol.


----------



## hodgjy

icebrain1 said:


> Hehe, ya the quest for the best never seems to end.
> I'm hoping to pickup a Bitfrost for my next upgrade after I get my Lyr 2 and He-400.
> 
> What DAC were you about to cheat on your Bitfrost with? lol.


 
 Gungnir and Teac UD-501. What DAC/source do you currently have?


----------



## icebrain1

Lol you dont want to know ( 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  a Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC built into my Mobo ), I know so sad. Will be upgrading after I save up some cash after my next upgrade.
  
 The UD-501 seems to to be pretty great but on the other hand so is the Gungnir? Hard choice.


----------



## hodgjy

icebrain1 said:


> Lol you dont want to know (
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Some computers have good on board sound, so don't discount it.
  
 I am tempted to get one of those DACs, but there's technically nothing about Bifrost that I don't like. It's just lust. And spending less than $1000 on another DAC will largely be a lateral move at this point, and I'm not willing to go above that threshold.


----------



## icebrain1

hodgjy said:


> Some computers have good on board sound, so don't discount it.
> 
> I am tempted to get one of those DACs, but there's technically nothing about Bifrost that I don't like. It's just lust. And spending less than $1000 on another DAC will largely be a lateral move at this point, and I'm not willing to go above that threshold.


 

 Lol, haven't had the opportunity to test lots of things yet, but that does seem like a bother.
  
 How about you spend the money on another component that will help, possibly wait for the HE-1000's that will cost a pretty penny. (not a very helpful support group lol)


----------



## hodgjy

icebrain1 said:


> Lol, haven't had the opportunity to test lots of things yet, but that does seem like a bother.
> 
> How about you spend the money on another component that will help, possibly wait for the HE-1000's that will cost a pretty penny. (not a very helpful support group lol)


 
 I just get lustful. I bought the LCD 2.2F back in January, and they are my end game. I am morally opposed to paying more for headphones than what the LCD 2.2F go for. Besides, they sound perfect for me.
  
 Maybe I'll just buy a mess of new music.


----------



## icebrain1

hodgjy said:


> I just get lustful. I bought the LCD 2.2F back in January, and they are my end game. I am morally opposed to paying more for headphones than what the LCD 2.2F go for. Besides, they sound perfect for me.
> 
> Maybe I'll just buy a mess of new music.


 

 Good plan, enough great content would be just as important as great equipment.


----------



## Tuco1965

hodgjy said:


> I just get lustful. I bought the LCD 2.2F back in January, and they are my end game. I am morally opposed to paying more for headphones than what the LCD 2.2F go for. Besides, they sound perfect for me.
> 
> Maybe I'll just buy a mess of new music.


 
  
 Go for the music. Lots of music.


----------



## hodgjy

tuco1965 said:


> Go for the music. Lots of music.


 
 Suggest a playlist and I'll see what I can do.


----------



## Tuco1965

hodgjy said:


> Suggest a playlist and I'll see what I can do.


 
  
 Listening tonight to
  
 The Kills : Blood Pressures
  
 The Dead Weather : Horehound
  
 Red Snapper : Red Snapper


----------



## AladdinSane

The Kills have been one of my favs for a while now. Also have that Dead Weather album. Maybe I'll like Red Snapper too. Thanks!
  
 Oh and I'll play on my MU2 set just to stay on topic.


----------



## Pirakaphile

So since I got a nice tax return, I'm thinking of getting the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Lets see how the Lyr2 will deal with competition other than the Magni when I get it in the winter. And then I'll have a nice selection of amps to hear and review. I've got a friend with the Asgard2 here in town, so I'll eventually ask if I can listen to that, and some Music Hall amp that the audio store has for audition. Reviews'll be a'comin' next year!


----------



## 520RanchBro

pirakaphile said:


> So since I got a nice tax return, I'm thinking of getting the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Lets see how the Lyr2 will deal with competition other than the Magni when I get it in the winter. And then I'll have a nice selection of amps to hear and review. I've got a friend with the Asgard2 here in town, so I'll eventually ask if I can listen to that, and some Music Hall amp that the audio store has for audition. Reviews'll be a'comin' next year!


 

 Looking forward to those, the Liquid Carbon is an amp I'm watching as a potential upgrade. So a comparison to the Asgard 2 would be much appreciated!


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> So since I got a nice tax return, I'm thinking of getting the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Lets see how the Lyr2 will deal with competition other than the Magni when I get it in the winter. And then I'll have a nice selection of amps to hear and review. I've got a friend with the Asgard2 here in town, so I'll eventually ask if I can listen to that, and some Music Hall amp that the audio store has for audition. Reviews'll be a'comin' next year!


 
 Get an A/B switch to flip the headphones between amps to do a proper comparison. You can use a Y cable to connect both amps to the DAC. Don't forget to match volumes very carefully. Have fun with this.


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> So since I got a nice tax return, I'm thinking of getting the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Lets see how the Lyr2 will deal with competition other than the Magni when I get it in the winter. And then I'll have a nice selection of amps to hear and review. I've got a friend with the Asgard2 here in town, so I'll eventually ask if I can listen to that, and some Music Hall amp that the audio store has for audition. Reviews'll be a'comin' next year!



Just curious is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp a hybrid tube amp or solid state amp? I assume it is a SS amp, but one should never assume anything.


----------



## bearFNF

reddog said:


> Just curious is the Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp a hybrid tube amp or solid state amp? I assume it is a SS amp, but one should never assume anything.



SS Fully discrete. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/761088/new-cavalli-audios-liquid-carbon-mini-desktop-amp


----------



## Pirakaphile

520ranchbro said:


> Looking forward to those, the Liquid Carbon is an amp I'm watching as a potential upgrade. So a comparison to the Asgard 2 would be much appreciated!


 
 I won't be posting them for quite a while, so you might not want to hold your breath. 
  
  


stand said:


> Get an A/B switch to flip the headphones between amps to do a proper comparison. You can use a Y cable to connect both amps to the DAC. Don't forget to match volumes very carefully. Have fun with this.


 
 Where do ya think I could get an A/B switcherooni for nothing but spare change?


----------



## StefanJK

hodgjy said:


> I feel like I need a support group. Or a confessional. Something along those lines. Because today, I almost did it again. I almost bought a different DAC. I can't help it, I am always so tempted.


 
 One of the good things, indeed the only verifiable good thing so far, is that Yggy isn't available yet and has been like that for years...so I can have the dream of a better DAC and not spend money on it.  And that may not even end all that soon, Schiit only charges when they ship.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Where do ya think I could get an A/B switcherooni for nothing but spare change?


 
 I bought some switches, jacks and a metal box. Drilled some holes and fired up my soldering iron. Maybe you can find something on Amazon.
 Due to the way us humans function you have 4 seconds to do the switch and listen for differences.


----------



## Sillyness

I'm actually looking at switches, jacks and connectors for that exact purpose right now. Got a cart going over at Mouser.


----------



## StanD

sillyness said:


> I'm actually looking at switches, jacks and connectors for that exact purpose right now. Got a cart going over at Mouser.


 
 I use a DPDT switch with a center off position so that the person throwing the switch can go back to where it was to trick the listener.
 You might want to add some banana jacks so you can use a meter to measure levels.


----------



## Sillyness

stand said:


> I use a DPDT switch with a center off position so that the person throwing the switch can go back to where it was to trick the listener.
> You might want to add some banana jacks so you can use a meter to measure levels.


 
  
 Both great ideas that I hadn't thought of. Thanks!

 I was going for two coax inputs connected to a DPDT, but I had selected an ON-ON switch. The idea to use the ON-OFF-ON switch instead is a really good one, for the reason you mentioned.
  
 It'll also have three 1/4" jacks so I can quickly switch the output side, of course. Two for input from the amps, one for output to the headphones. So, the person operating the A/B rig will have to throw two switches, but I still think this is a better option than unplugging and re-plugging when considering our sketchy short-term sound memory.


----------



## StanD

sillyness said:


> Both great ideas that I hadn't thought of. Thanks!
> 
> I was going for two coax inputs connected to a DPDT, but I had selected an ON-ON switch. The idea to use the ON-OFF-ON switch instead is a really good one, for the reason you mentioned.
> 
> It'll also have three 1/4" jacks so I can quickly switch the output side, of course. Two for input from the amps, one for output to the headphones. So, the person operating the A/B rig will have to throw two switches, but I still think this is a better option than unplugging and re-plugging when considering our sketchy short-term sound memory.


 
 I put 1/4" and 1/8" jacks in parallel so I could test without adapters, You can always do that later if you leave room, plan ahead.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> I bought some switches, jacks and a metal box. Drilled some holes and fired up my soldering iron. Maybe you can find something on Amazon.
> Due to the way us humans function you have 4 seconds to do the switch and listen for differences.


 
 I think I've got a soldering iron, but probably no solder. And I really don't have any usable bits lying around, so I'll have to see if there's an electronics store somewhere around here.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> I think I've got a soldering iron, but probably no solder. And I really don't have any usable bits lying around, so I'll have to see if there's an electronics store somewhere around here.


 
 Visit a Radio Shack while they're still open for business, They've got solder,


----------



## David Aldrich

I've had a Wyrd kicking around for about a week debating wether or not to use it with my Gungnir. I finally broke down tonight and put it in, I'm uncomfortable with the change it made to the sound quality.
  
 I also decided after that to use my Gungnir with XLR - RCA cables I made which leave the return floating (pin 3). They are a lot better than the summed single ended outputs.
  
 I need to get a Ragnarok or Mjolnir asap I think.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

david aldrich said:


> I've had a Wyrd kicking around for about a week debating wether or not to use it with my Gungnir. I finally broke down tonight and put it in, I'm uncomfortable with the change it made to the sound quality.
> 
> I also decided after that to use my Gungnir with XLR - RCA cables I made which leave the return floating (pin 3). They are a lot better than the summed single ended outputs.
> 
> I need to get a Ragnarok or Mjolnir asap I think.



Hah hah! I hear you. I've got XLR out to my Rane DEQ 60L (balanced only) then XLR out to what was supposed to be Mjolnir- but Amazon sent Lyr. So I got a transformer to convert to unbalanced RCA...
Rag order placed last month...


----------



## David Aldrich

exacoustatowner said:


> Hah hah! I hear you. I've got XLR out to my Rane DEQ 60L (balanced only) then XLR out to what was supposed to be Mjolnir- but Amazon sent Lyr. So I got a transformer to convert to unbalanced RCA...
> Rag order placed last month...


 

 I don't even have a clue how Amazon screwed up that listing so bad, I saw a few people get caught up in that mess.
  
 I've thought about using transformer converters versus just floating the return path, part of me says that not using the transformer is better, the other part of me says I should use a resistor equal to my amps input impedance to balance the signal properly between inphase and return.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

david aldrich said:


> I don't even have a clue how Amazon screwed up that listing so bad, I saw a few people get caught up in that mess.
> 
> I've thought about using transformer converters versus just floating the return path, part of me says that not using the transformer is better, the other part of me says I should use a resistor equal to my amps input impedance to balance the signal properly between inphase and return.


 
 Once I got the Lyr-with some tubes from Rb- I quite liked it! I ordered the Ragnarok- and decided I'd keep the Lyr and use it in the bedroom. Of course the wait for the Ragnarok is long…. 
 It sounds like you know what you are doing with the balanced lines. Easier for me to use the transformer. I am using an ART "Clean Pro" transformer- I can say it causes a noticeable roll off in the treble. But since I've a pro EQ I can compensate. Otherwise it works remarkably well It's not ideal. Another forum member is using the same EQ and recommended a Jensen transformer as better SQ. 
 Actually-*strike that treble roll off*-I think it might have been the Ancient wimpy RCA cables from an Ancient VCR that was affecting the sound. Since replaced with quality insulated cables from Blue Jeans Cables. I recall being surprised  that the difference was so noticeable.
 I'll have to re-evaluate the effect of the Transformer by comparing direct RCA out from my Oppo into the Lyr-and through the signal chain with EQ (in bypass) with the transformer.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Visit a Radio Shack while they're still open for business, They've got solder,


 
 They got switches and wires too? AUDIOPHILE WIRES AND AUDIOPHILE SOLDER? Solid gold RCA jacks? Anunduized LED lights?


----------



## CH23

You're aware of the existence of the Schiit SYS, right?

Afaik you can use this to switch between multiple sources as well...

http://schiit.com/products/sys


----------



## Pirakaphile

ch23 said:


> You're aware of the existence of the Schiit SYS, right?
> 
> Afaik you can use this to switch between multiple sources as well...
> 
> http://schiit.com/products/sys


 
 Yup, I know all about it, I just don't know if I should make my own for a fifth the price or just go ahead and get it.


----------



## CH23

pirakaphile said:


> ch23 said:
> 
> 
> > You're aware of the existence of the Schiit SYS, right?
> ...




It's definitely on my list when i finally get some schiit.


----------



## Pirakaphile

ch23 said:


> It's definitely on my list when i finally get some schiit.


 
 It has two 'in' and only one 'out', so I'm not sure how it'd work for amp comparison..


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> It has two 'in' and only one 'out', so I'm not sure how it'd work for amp comparison..


 

 Turn the volume all the way up and use in reverse, use the outs as ins and the in as the out.  Use the switch to do an A/B comparison.  Since the unit is passive the signal can travel either way.


----------



## Pirakaphile

mwsvette said:


> Turn the volume all the way up and use in reverse, use the outs as ins and the in as the out.  Use the switch to do an A/B comparison.  Since the unit is passive the signal can travel either way.


 
 .. You have a brain, I do not.


----------



## MWSVette

pirakaphile said:


> .. You have a brain, I do not.


 

 Sure you do...
  
 Actually I would like to see Schiit make a Sys 2 that has 2 inputs and 2 outputs with switches allow from either input to either or both outputs.


----------



## money4me247

pirakaphile said:


> It has two 'in' and only one 'out', so I'm not sure how it'd work for amp comparison..


 
 for an amp comparison, nick at schiit recommends just using rca splitters. he says there should be no noticeable degradation of sound quality. I have my two amplifiers set-up like that and I would agree.


----------



## CH23

mwsvette said:


> pirakaphile said:
> 
> 
> > It has two 'in' and only one 'out', so I'm not sure how it'd work for amp comparison..
> ...




In my case, as i will have an analogue source (turntable) go through a phono amp, to the SYS. And then my PC through a DAC/amp to the SYS, it'd work normally for me.

But yes, reversing is easily possible


----------



## MWSVette

money4me247 said:


> for an amp comparison, nick at schiit recommends just using rca splitters. he says there should be no noticeable degradation of sound quality. I have my two amplifiers set-up like that and I would agree.


 
 Sure cheaper than a Sys, unless you already had one laying around.
  
 Personally I use these
  
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-adapter-male-female-assembly/dp/B0009MFRW0/ref=sr_1_38?ie=UTF8&qid=1428772730&sr=8-38&keywords=rca+splitter+male+gold


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> Sure you do...
> 
> Actually I would like to see Schiit make a Sys 2 that has 2 inputs and 2 outputs with switches allow from either input to either or both outputs.



+1 That would be very nice.


----------



## Pirakaphile

I'm gonna guess replacing the volume pot in the Mjolnir with a stepped attenuator is a bit too much for a first time DIY audio project, eh?


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> I'm gonna guess replacing the volume pot in the Mjolnir with a stepped attenuator is a bit too much for a first time DIY audio project, eh?


 
 Yep.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Yep.



This is probably the worst part of upgraditis. Even once you've got your mind set on something, you just know you want more, and you keep doing research despite your plans. All it is is a $250 quad stepped attenuator, how hard can it be?


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> This is probably the worst part of upgraditis. Even once you've got your mind set on something, you just know you want more, and you keep doing research despite your plans. All it is is a $250 quad stepped attenuator, how hard can it be?


 
 Do you have the solder skills to remove/desolder the original pot from a multilayered PCB? Is the stepped attenuator going to fit in the available space? Is it active and controlled by a shaft encoder or switch?


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Do you have the solder skills to remove/desolder the original pot from a multilayered PCB? Is the stepped attenuator going to fit in the available space? Is it active and controlled by a shaft encoder or switch?



My middle name is Mcgyver, I don't have to worry about pointless little details because everything technical happens between the filmed parts, so I practically just have to open up the case and everything else just sorts itself out.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> My middle name is Mcgyver, I don't have to worry about pointless little details because everything technical happens between the filmed parts, so I practically just have to open up the case and everything else just sorts itself out.


 
 You watch too much TV for the good of your Schiit. What's next, a Stargate? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You risk damaging it, it's a big risk without experience.


----------



## David Aldrich

From a cost standpoint I have a feeling it would be something like this.
  
 Mjolnir + Stepped Attenuator + Auxilary Components + Labor ≥ Ragnarok
  
 Plus those clicking relays from the microprocessor controlled pot addressed stepped attenuator are way cooler than a standard rotary switch stepped attenuator.


----------



## StanD

david aldrich said:


> From a cost standpoint I have a feeling it would be something like this.
> 
> Mjolnir + Stepped Attenuator + Auxilary Components + Labor ≥ Ragnarok
> 
> Plus those clicking relays from the microprocessor controlled pot addressed stepped attenuator are way cooler than a standard rotary switch stepped attenuator.


 
 = no warranty.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

pirakaphile said:


> I'm gonna guess replacing the volume pot in the Mjolnir with a stepped attenuator is a bit too much for a first time DIY audio project, eh?


 
 What would be the benefit? Most folks I know go for upgrading capacitors as the first sort of mod to improve SQ-assuming they are not already top quality caps.
 I guess you have to weigh the cost/benefit ratio. If it works you get…. If not-an inert chunk of metal.
  
 You say it's a first? Are you skilled with soldering and desoldering? If you mess up you won't be warranty eligible.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> You watch too much TV for the good of your Schiit. What's next, a Stargate?   You risk damaging it, it's a big risk without experience.


I'm mostly just being a goof, since I'd be afraid just to take the screws off (not really, but for the sake of emphasizing my lack of experience) let alone take something out and replace it with another thing. 
However, I do want to do some DIY stuff, though I'll start out with simple things. Like a LEGO headphone stand.


----------



## Pirakaphile

exacoustatowner said:


> What would be the benefit? Most folks I know go for upgrading capacitors as the first sort of mod to improve SQ-assuming they are not already top quality caps.
> I guess you have to weigh the cost/benefit ratio. If it works you get…. If not-an inert chunk of metal.
> 
> You say it's a first? Are you skilled with soldering and desoldering? If you mess up you won't be warranty eligible.



Benefit? It's audiophile technology! Don't talk to me about benefit unless you've spent acres of money on audio equipment like I have!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

pirakaphile said:


> Benefit? It's audiophile technology! Don't talk to me about benefit unless you've spent acres of money on audio equipment like I have!



I've spent bundles of money on audiophile gear-but your point is taken. I've never put "Brilliant Pebbles" (do a search) on my speaker wire and am doubtless unqualified!


----------



## David Aldrich

I notice a distinct positive difference when using Wyrd with my system, my engineer cred is now gone.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

david aldrich said:


> I notice a distinct positive difference when using Wyrd with my system, my engineer cred is now gone.



Exactly! The God NyQuist is displeased!


----------



## David Aldrich

exacoustatowner said:


> Exactly! The God NyQuist is displeased!


 

 Gasp, the Gungnir is a ∆∑ DAC too.


----------



## Pirakaphile

exacoustatowner said:


> I've spent bundles of money on audiophile gear-but your point is taken. I've never put "Brilliant Pebbles" (do a search) on my speaker wire and am doubtless unqualified!



I'm.. What. Well, at least the prices aren't in the $10,000 range like some cables can get up to.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

pirakaphile said:


> I'm.. What. Well, at least the prices aren't in the $10,000 range like some cables can get up to.



Exactly!


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> I'm.. What. Well, at least the prices aren't in the $10,000 range like some cables can get up to.



Egads I had no idea cables could be so expensive. But I do love my Norne Audio Vanquish cable for my Alpha Prime's.


----------



## Pirakaphile

reddog said:


> Egads I had no idea cables could be so expensive. But I do love my Norne Audio Vanquish cable for my Alpha Prime's.



I don't doubt the audible difference between grammas lamp cable and a nice solid cable that may cost somewhere in the $50 range, but in cables I bet the rate of return after $100 or so is tremendously tiny.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> I don't doubt the audible difference between grammas lamp cable and a nice solid cable that may cost somewhere in the $50 range, but in cables I bet the rate of return after $100 or so is tremendously tiny.


 
 What's wrong with classic brown zipcord besides being bulky and not being stylish? It probably sounds as good as the best and has a very low resistance.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> What's wrong with classic brown zipcord besides being bulky and not being stylish? It probably sounds as good as the best and has a very low resistance.



But, but, but.. It's not silver coated and annenduized with the patented BS-spiraldust system! 
Really I don't have an answer for that, but I have mixed opinions on cables. Part of me wants to go all science and Schiit and say there is no difference, but I recall hearing a difference in sound when my uncle swapped out an 'audiophile' cable for a design of his own making. He didn't tell me what to expect, so I expected nothing, but what he did was change the wire for the treble, and the cymbals immediately shot out into focus. It could have just been the connection of the wire wasn't good at first, or I was actually expecting something, but I'm very torn.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> But, but, but.. It's not silver coated and annenduized with the patented BS-spiraldust system!
> Really I don't have an answer for that, but I have mixed opinions on cables. Part of me wants to go all science and Schiit and say there is no difference, but I recall hearing a difference in sound when my uncle swapped out an 'audiophile' cable for a design of his own making. He didn't tell me what to expect, so I expected nothing, but what he did was change the wire for the treble, and the cymbals immediately shot out into focus. It could have just been the connection of the wire wasn't good at first, or I was actually expecting something, but I'm very torn.


 
 Having an overactive imagination isn't all that bad, although it may cost you. The best cables are specially treated in the Hadron Collider, it's those God Particles that do it..


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> I don't doubt the audible difference between grammas lamp cable and a nice solid cable that may cost somewhere in the $50 range, but in cables I bet the rate of return after $100 or so is tremendously tiny.



I got the vanquish cable because I needed a longer cable. I am not sure if the cables have improved the sound signature or not, without doing a blind comparison test.


----------



## hodgjy

Of all the things that alter the sound in your chain, cables are the least likely to.  All you need to care about cables is their construction and longevity. Buy ones that will last a long time. 
  
 For example, take into consideration a rock band performing live on stage or in a recording studio. These are the places where sound quality matters the most--it could be the difference between making it big or never making it at all. Do they spend $1000 per foot for silver plated, cryo-treated, blessed by monks cables? No. They buy sturdy cables with good shielding that will last a long time. Set it and forget it.
  
 Audiophiles love to obsess over weakest links. However, the topic of analog-to-digital converters and cables in the studio never seems to come up.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Having an overactive imagination isn't all that bad, although it may cost you. The best cables are specially treated in the Hadron Collider, it's those God Particles that do it..



If my headphones sounded like Morgan Freeman after a run through the Hadron, I would call that an excellent use of money.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> If my headphones sounded like Morgan Freeman after a run through the Hadron, I would call that an excellent use of money.


 
 iBeats are working on it, Be patient.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> iBeats are working on it, Be patient.



It better be compatible with the iWatch!


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> iBeats are working on it, Be patient.


 
  
  


pirakaphile said:


> It better be compatible with the iWatch!


 
 Only if you get the Uber versions.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Only if you get the Uber versions.



Hey, they better not be using Schiit marketing here! Or, or.. We'll tell Jason to sue em!


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Hey, they better not be using Schiit marketing here! Or, or.. We'll tell Jason to sue em!


 
 I'm afraid that iJason has already been taken by the dark side of the force and has been assimilated by the iBorg collective. The next time he'll be seen it'll be with implants cleverly disguised as an iWatch and iBeats IEMs.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> I'm afraid that iJason has already been taken by the dark side of the force and has been assimilated by the iBorg collective. The next time he'll be seen it'll be with implants cleverly disguised as an iWatch and iBeats IEMs.



NOOOOOOOOOOO!
But at least he doesn't get a drill to his eyeball. And he'll be compatible with iTunes!


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOO!
> But at least he doesn't get a drill to his eyeball. And he'll be compatible with iTunes!


 
 More recent versions of iDevices and ios are CCK/USB compatible with the iModi and iBifrost. Part of their dastardly plan for taking over the planet. Even the Cybermen couldn't have done better.
 The part about the CCK/USB compatibility with Schiit DACs is true, it works.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> More recent versions of iDevices and ios are CCK/USB compatible with the iModi and iBifrost. Part of their dastardly plan for taking over the planet. Even the Cybermen couldn't have done better.
> The part about the CCK/USB compatibility with Schiit DACs is true, it works.



If they're trying to take over the world via Schiit customers, it's going to take them a very long time, innit?


----------



## reddog

pirakaphile said:


> If they're trying to take over the world via Schiit customers, it's going to take them a very long time, innit?



Unless its real good schiit, in which case the world is doomed


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> Unless its real good schiit, in which case the world is doomed


 
 Jason is on an off world alien seminar on marketing through mind control. Once he returns, I expect a large uptick in sales volume.


----------



## Mr Rick

stand said:


> Jason is on an off world alien seminar on marketing through mind control. Once he returns, I expect a large uptick in sales volume.


 
  
 It must be working already. I just ordered a Mojo. LOL


----------



## ludvigrollover

Greetings, I am about to become a Schiithead. My Magni/Modi 2ü stack has shipped. I blame it on reading Head-Fi. I got the Übers because of the connection options and the M/M stack because I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference with more expensive Schiit. I'll hear if I can tell the difference to my current DAC/amp...
  
 Current chain is Logitech Media Server running on a Linux VM on my server box (CD flacs mostly) > squeezelite on Raspberry Pi (piCorePlayer) > FiiO E07K > Sennheiser HD 598. Speaker side is Emotiva XPA-2 and Maggie MMG.
  
 Made two "tweaks" yesterday that made a big difference in my sound quality:
 - actually power on the USB hub between RasPi and FiiO
 - powercycle the FiiO after running for some weeks
  
 That was cheap!


----------



## Pirakaphile

ludvigrollover said:


> Greetings, I am about to become a Schiithead. My Magni/Modi 2ü stack has shipped. I blame it on reading Head-Fi. I got the Übers because of the connection options and the M/M stack because I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference with more expensive Schiit. I'll hear if I can tell the difference to my current DAC/amp...
> 
> Current chain is Logitech Media Server running on a Linux VM on my server box (CD flacs mostly) > squeezelite on Raspberry Pi (piCorePlayer) > FiiO E07K > Sennheiser HD 598. Speaker side is Emotiva XPA-2 and Maggie MMG.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like you're set up for a really good time. Have fun with the music! And, I can't say I'm not jealous about the MMGs. I'm gonna be getting those in a couple of years when I've got an amp for em. How do you like the sound?


----------



## ludvigrollover

I've had a really good time with the Maggies. Only my sub amp burned out some time ago so I got nothing below 50 Hz or so. Just set up some old M-Audio powered studio monitors in the kitchen and was astonished at all that bass in my music... I never really got that sub dialed in or placed properly anyway. I like the Maggies overall, but they need to be cranked up a bit to get dynamics going.
  
 I'm planning to sell the Emo and Maggies soon though - about to start building LXMinis.
  
 And I'm starting to drool over next level Sennheisers (6x0). At least sanity prevailed and I'm no longer reading about HD 700's!


----------



## Billheiser

ludvigrollover said:


> ...
> 
> And I'm starting to drool over next level Sennheisers (6x0). At least sanity prevailed and I'm no longer reading about HD 700's!



Is there something definitely known or expected about a new 6xx model?


----------



## Tuco1965

billheiser said:


> Is there something definitely known or expected about a new 6xx model?


 
  
 I think coming from the 598s if I read correctly.


----------



## ludvigrollover

Yeah, next level for me. I have no spies at Sennheiser


----------



## wavz

I am loving my Imac > USB > Modi 2 > RCA > VALI > Grado SR 80e > Into my BIO Gear. Head-fi & Schiit has changed my life forever. If only I had more $.


----------



## Billheiser

ludvigrollover said:


> Yeah, next level for me. I have no spies at Sennheiser


 

 Oh, understood now, thanks.


----------



## KLJTech

ludvigrollover said:


> I've had a really good time with the Maggies. Only my sub amp burned out some time ago so I got nothing below 50 Hz or so. Just set up some old M-Audio powered studio monitors in the kitchen and was astonished at all that bass in my music... I never really got that sub dialed in or placed properly anyway. I like the Maggies overall, but they need to be cranked up a bit to get dynamics going.
> 
> I'm planning to sell the Emo and Maggies soon though - about to start building LXMinis.
> 
> And I'm starting to drool over next level Sennheisers (6x0). At least sanity prevailed and I'm no longer reading about HD 700's!


 
  
 Magnepan's are extremely hard to beat from the midrange up and you can get very well defined bass from the larger models. You have to be careful not to muddy up the sound with a sub. I've had very good luck running Maggies over the years with preamps that have High and Low Pass outputs so that the Maggies (and your stereo amp) only sees 80Hz and above and below that goes straight to your powered sub. REL makes great subs for the Maggies, but I've also had great results with sealed Velodyne (DD series) subs too.


----------



## Pirakaphile

kljtech said:


> Magnepan's are extremely hard to beat from the midrange up and you can get very well defined bass from the larger models. You have to be careful not to muddy up the sound with a sub. I've had very good luck running Maggies over the years with preamps that have High and Low Pass outputs so that the Maggies (and your stereo amp) only sees 80Hz and above and below that goes straight to your powered sub. REL makes great subs for the Maggies, but I've also had great results with sealed Velodyne (DD series) subs too.


 
 I'm hoping to get the 3.7 as my end-game speaker in the far far future, though I'll be going through the MMG first. From what I hear, Magnepans have some of the best acoustic bass reproduction in the industry, and the midrange, ooh that midrange. My uncle has some 1.6s which started me on this whole venture.
 All we need is a Schiit speaker amp that'll do em justice, eh?


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone know what Schiit might update next? Or when?


----------



## Mr Rick

bretemm said:


> Does anyone know what Schiit might update next? Or when?


 
 I think I remember reading that there would be no upgrades in 2015.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I'm I might get there tube amp but I'm not sure yet, I'm limited to ie-m because of a medical devise that I can't get by strong magnets, so, now inbetween Schiit and ie-m, what would be a good iem? I like the shure se846, but right now that's too much 





mr rick said:


> I think I remember reading that there would be no upgrades in 2015.


----------



## aqsw

As of right now, I am Schiitless and I hate it. I bought an Oppo Ha-1 and love it. I then decided to move my Lyr and Bifrost to my office.

Then the Cavalli liquid carbon promo came out and I just had to jump in on it.

To offset he cost of the cavalli I put the Schiit stack on kijiji hoping it wouldnt sell. Well, it did.

Now I'm out of a setp for my office for at least four months till I get the Carbon.

The good news is, yssadril is coming out soon and I'm hoping there will be some nice Gungs on the for sale forums pretty soon.

Long rant, but I will have more Schiit. My Lyr and Bifrost served me very well!


----------



## hodgjy

aqsw said:


> As of right now, I am Schiitless and I hate it. I bought an Oppo Ha-1 and love it. I then decided to move my Lyr and Bifrost to my office.
> 
> Then the Cavalli liquid carbon promo came out and I just had to jump in on it.
> 
> ...


 
 What are your thoughts of the HA-1 compared to your Schiit stack?  I currently have a Bifrost Uber and the the HA-1 has my attention.


----------



## olor1n

It's just dawned on me how much of a Schiit-head I am. I've owned the Bifrost, Gungnir and Lyr and currently have the Vali, Mjolnir and Ragnarok in the stable. Will have to take a hiatus from all this when the Yggy is launched to the usual fanfare.


----------



## aqsw

hodgjy said:


> What are your thoughts of the HA-1 compared to your Schiit stack?  I currently have a Bifrost Uber and the the HA-1 has my attenti
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## hodgjy

aqsw said:


> I Think it really depends on your headphones. I use lcd 2.2 pre fazor and the Oppo kills the schiit stack I had. (Lyr and regular bifrost with usb). Don't get me wrong, I loved my Schiit and still do. The Oppo just has some stuff I like better. BLUETOOTH, DSD , etc. It sounds better too . IMO
> 
> I have a frend that is much more knowledgeable in this field than I am. He references all his stuff to his He6. He didn't like my Schiit or my Oppo for his reference phones.
> 
> Everybody to their own.


 
 Thanks for the info. From what I read, the HA-1 is neutral and perhaps leans to the bright side. The HE-6 is bright, so maybe it's not the best pair. The LCD 2.2 pre-fazor is on the dark side, so it sounds like a great combo. I have the fazor 2.2, so I'm still on the fence if it's a good pair. I have nowhere to audition it ahead of time, unfortunately.


----------



## hodgjy

olor1n said:


> It's just dawned on me how much of a Schiit-head I am. I've owned the Bifrost, Gungnir and Lyr and currently have the Vali, Mjolnir and Ragnarok in the stable. Will have to take a hiatus from all this when the Yggy is launched to the usual fanfare.


 
 What is your opinion of Bifrost vs. Gungnir?


----------



## aqsw

hodgjy said:


> Thanks for the info. From what I read, the HA-1 is neutral and perhaps leans to the bright side. The HE-6 is bright, so maybe it's not the best pair. The LCD 2.2 pre-fazor is on the dark side, so it sounds like a great combo. I have the fazor 2.2, so I'm still on the fence if it's a good pair. I have nowhere to audition it ahead of time, unfortunately.




I've never heard the 2.2 fazor, but I don't think you would ever regret getting the Ha1. You might regret selling your Schiit though


----------



## olor1n

hodgjy said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > It's just dawned on me how much of a Schiit-head I am. I've owned the Bifrost, Gungnir and Lyr and currently have the Vali, Mjolnir and Ragnarok in the stable. Will have to take a hiatus from all this when the Yggy is launched to the usual fanfare.
> ...


 
  
 It's been a while since I owned the two dacs, but I did have them both side by side for a few weeks when my Gungnir first arrived. I loved the Bifrost but the Gungnir was a clear upgrade. The extra refinement across the board was immediately apparent. The Gungnir/Mjolnir stack was a fine rig for my LCD-2 and HD650, but it was too lively and fatiguing for my HD800.


----------



## hodgjy

olor1n said:


> It's been a while since I owned the two dacs, but I did have them both side by side for a few weeks when my Gungnir first arrived. I loved the Bifrost but the Gungnir was a clear upgrade. The extra refinement across the board was immediately apparent. The Gungnir/Mjolnir stack was a fine rig for my LCD-2 and HD650, but it was too lively and fatiguing for my HD800.


 
 I have an amp that has a hint of warmth, and from what I read, the Gungnir is also slightly warm. Is that your impression as well?


----------



## olor1n

The Gungnir didn't strike me as a warm dac. Perhaps the weight of its bass rendition lends to this perception. When my NAD M51 arrived it was apparent that the Gungnir lacked finesse in terms of dynamics (it's "shouty") and was a little rough in the upper registers.
  
 I don't think you need to be concerned about the Gungnir providing too much warmth. If anything, its attack and energy should counteract the woolliness of an overly warm amplifier.


----------



## hodgjy

olor1n said:


> The Gungnir didn't strike me as a warm dac. Perhaps the weight of its bass rendition lends to this perception. When my NAD M51 arrived it was apparent that the Gungnir lacked finesse in terms of dynamics (it's "shouty") and was a little rough in the upper registers.
> 
> I don't think you need to be concerned about the Gungnir providing too much warmth. If anything, its attack and energy should counteract the woolliness of an overly warm amplifier.


 
 Thanks for the info. I'm really torn on my upgrade path from Bifrost. Ever since I got the LCD 2.2F, I have the perception (perhaps unwarranted) that Bifrost is the weak link the chain.


----------



## money4me247

hodgjy said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm really torn on my upgrade path from Bifrost. Ever since I got the LCD 2.2F, I have the perception (perhaps unwarranted) that Bifrost is the weak link the chain.


 
 hahah... it's probably not. would still be your headphones  imo, ime, ymmv


----------



## hodgjy

money4me247 said:


> hahah... it's probably not. would still be your headphones  imo, ime, ymmv


 
 Really? The jump from HD650 was huge for me.


----------



## aqsw

My lcd 2.2s pre fazor were definately not the weak link. That was reserved for my bifrost.(non uber)


----------



## money4me247

hodgjy said:


> Really? The jump from HD650 was huge for me.


 
 yup, going from mid-fi to flagship does give you a pretty nice jump. however, in my experience the coloration of the headphones always has a bigger impact than the coloration of external equipment. the LCD 2.2 is still a bit colored and not as resolving compared to some other flagships, so still can squeeze a bit more out of the headphone area before moving onto upgrading amps/dacs. The differences between flagship headphones are not as large, but still larger than jumping from mid-fi dacs/amps (usually requires at least $1k more to get out of mid-fi territory per external component too, I always have a performance:value mentality as well). Would think the LCD-2.2 is still the weakest link (only my personal opinion) from my personal experience. however, if you really enjoy the specific sound signature of the LCD-2s & prefer it over other flagships, then I think that upgrading external equipment would be a good move. just my personal recommendations


----------



## hodgjy

money4me247 said:


> yup, going from mid-fi to flagship does give you a pretty nice jump. however, in my experience the coloration of the headphones always has a bigger impact than the coloration of external equipment. the LCD 2.2 is still a bit colored and not as resolving compared to some other flagships, so still can squeeze a bit more out of the headphone area before moving onto upgrading amps/dacs. The differences between flagship headphones are not as large, but still larger than jumping from mid-fi dacs/amps (usually requires at least $1k more to get out of mid-fi territory per external component too, I always have a performance:value mentality as well). Would think the LCD-2.2 is still the weakest link (only my personal opinion) from my personal experience. however, if you really enjoy the specific sound signature of the LCD-2s & prefer it over other flagships, then I think that upgrading external equipment would be a good move. just my personal recommendations


 
 Thanks for your insights. I haven't heard other flagships, so I have no baseline comparison. But, I am opposed to spending more than $1k on headphones because I also like groceries, a roof, clothes, etc. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm happy with the sound, so I don't need temptations......


----------



## Exacoustatowner

bretemm said:


> Ok, I'm I might get there tube amp but I'm not sure yet, I'm limited to ie-m because of a medical devise that I can't get by strong magnets, so, now inbetween Schiit and ie-m, what would be a good iem? I like the shure se846, but right now that's too much



Hi! Actually Electrostatic headphones use hi voltage and a static charge to move air. So you have that option! Have you looked into that?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

olor1n said:


> It's just dawned on me how much of a Schiit-head I am. I've owned the Bifrost, Gungnir and Lyr and currently have the Vali, Mjolnir and Ragnarok in the stable. Will have to take a hiatus from all this when the Yggy is launched to the usual fanfare.



Wow! That's a lot of Poo! How do the Mjolnir and Rag compare as headphone amps,? I'm on the list for the Ragnarok (ordered 1 month). I'm loving the Lyr with some different tubes! I ordered Mjolnir from Amazon-when they had Lyr confused in their system. Tried it with some NOS tubes- and I love it! I bought balanced cables for use with the Mjolnir which I hope to use with Ragnarok in "4-6 weeks"


----------



## Eee Pee

exacoustatowner said:


> How do the Mjolnir and Rag compare as headphone amps,?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-impressions-thread/24240#post_11508200


----------



## Exacoustatowner

eee pee said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/197776/sennheiser-hd650-impressions-thread/24240#post_11508200



Thanks Eee!


----------



## ThurstonX

hodgjy said:


> Thanks for your insights. I haven't heard other flagships, so I have no baseline comparison. But, I am opposed to spending more than $1k on headphones because I also like groceries, a roof, clothes, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Pih!  All that schiit is overrated.  You need to join us on the *Homeless Head-Fi March on D.C.*  We're going to demand what we're _*entitled*_ to:
  
*Flagships For All!!!*​


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Pih!  All that schiit is overrated.  You need to join us on the [COLOR=0000CD]*Homeless Head-Fi March on D.C.*[/COLOR]  We're going to demand what we're _*entitled*_ to:
> 
> [COLOR=FF0000]*Flagships For All!!!*[/COLOR]​



In with you Thurston if your assistant Rangy the Orangutan is our mascot! I think Rangy needs an HE-1000!


----------



## ludvigrollover

M/M2U was delivered today. I've only had time to spot listen some favorites. No A/B comparisons (old DAC/amp is Fiio 07K) - all I can say that there is more of everything: space, resolution, MUSIC, involvement.
  
 Beatles' A Hard Days' Night always has had this hot mess with Ringo riding the cymbals. It sounds like the tape is getting oversaturated. With M/M and the Mono box version, it actually resolves into separate instruments. Awesome. The Please Please Me album (mono - still haven't gotten the stereo box) is always fun. A working rock'n'roll band running through their set. Now I get glimpses of the studio that I haven't heard in 40 years listening to this band.
  
 On Coltrane's A Love Supreme McCoy Tyner's piano has always bothered me, it sounds like he's playing in a concrete hole in the studio. Now I hear what he's doing - still miked weirdly far away but it sounds like a piano, with a master player. And Coltrane whispers in my left ear and I *get* the emotion in his lines. Elvin Jones is crisp in my right ear. Wow. I just get pulled into the music.
  
 Sibelius' 3rd Symphony (Berglund/Bournemouth) just breathes, beautiful.
  
 Excuse me, I have to go put on some Joni Mitchell. And start plotting my HD 600/650 purchase, because now I can perceive that there is even more to be heard on these worn favorites. Damn.
  
 (phones: HD 598)


----------



## Exacoustatowner

ludvigrollover said:


> M/M2U was delivered today. I've only had time to spot listen some favorites. No A/B comparisons (old DAC/amp is Fiio 07K) - all I can say that there is more of everything: space, resolution, MUSIC, involvement.
> 
> Beatles' A Hard Days' Night always has had this hot mess with Ringo riding the cymbals. It sounds like the tape is getting oversaturated. With M/M and the Mono box version, it actually resolves into separate instruments. Awesome. The Please Please Me album (mono - still haven't gotten the stereo box) is always fun. A working rock'n'roll band running through their set. Now I get glimpses of the studio that I haven't heard in 40 years listening to this band.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing. THAT's what it's all about!


----------



## Aerocraft67

I promise not to gratuitously post on page 666 of the thread, bwa ha ha haaa. But this seems like the right spot for a cross-category Schiit product question. 
  
 I have a USB DAC that may be experiencing some of the problems outlined in the Wyrd product documentation. But I'm also toying with the idea of foregoing USB altogether and getting a Modi Optical. Too cheap to take a $419 swing at an optical-only Bifrost, but that's tempting. My DAC is a v1.5 Meridian Explorer. Any opinion on whether the Modi Optical would perform about as well? Or might adding Wyrd be the ticket to clean up the dropouts and keep the Meridian performance (such as it is). Just thinking for the $100, why not just get the new DAC rather than a USB cleaner-upper. As you can see below I run an A2 and HE-500 downstream so going up to the Bifrost would be reasonable. And I have the latest MacBook that renders 192 kHz sample rates out of the optical port. Thanks!


----------



## Jayville36

I am a relatively new owner of the Mjolnir and Gugnir.  I have powered monitor speakers connected through the balanced pre-out jacks.   My headphones (Mr. Speaker Alpha Primes) are connected to the balanced XLR jack.   I was under the impression that when the headphones are plugged in, the speakers would mute automatically.  I was mistaken....the sound comes out of both!
  
 Does this mean I have to disconnect the speakers or turn the power switches off whenever I want to listen to the headphones in order to prevent the speakers from playing at the same time?    
  
 How can this be solved?


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> Pih!  All that schiit is overrated.  You need to join us on the [COLOR=0000CD]*Homeless Head-Fi March on D.C.*[/COLOR]  We're going to demand what we're _*entitled*_ to:
> 
> [COLOR=FF0000]*Flagships For All!!!*[/COLOR]​



I am working on a custom grocery cart the will have a usb port, and a place for 3 car batteries, need something to run my rag and yiggy.  
Hey a homeless Audiophile must have the basics covered lol. I wonder if I can get a portable generator that runs on moonshine .


----------



## StanD

reddog said:


> I am working on a custom grocery cart the will have a usb port, and a place for 3 car batteries, need something to run my rag and yiggy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Go green, get solar panels and proper batteries.


----------



## Pirakaphile

jayville36 said:


> I am a relatively new owner of the Mjolnir and Gugnir.  I have powered monitor speakers connected through the balanced pre-out jacks.   My headphones (Mr. Speaker Alpha Primes) are connected to the balanced XLR jack.   I was under the impression that when the headphones are plugged in, the speakers would mute automatically.  I was mistaken....the sound comes out of both!
> 
> Does this mean I have to disconnect the speakers or turn the power switches off whenever I want to listen to the headphones in order to prevent the speakers from playing at the same time?
> 
> How can this be solved?



Looks like you're gonna have to unplug the pre-amp outs if you just wanna listen to headphones. I did some looking on their site and in the manual but it says nothing about the pre-outs muting when a headphone is plugged in. So you'll just have to unplug whichever you don't want on.
Or turn off the speaker amp when listening to headphones.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Looks like you're gonna have to unplug the pre-amp outs if you just wanna listen to headphones. I did some looking on their site and in the manual but it says nothing about the pre-outs muting when a headphone is plugged in. So you'll just have to unplug whichever you don't want on.
> Or turn off the speaker amp when listening to headphones.


 
 I believe this works for SE amps having 6.3mm TRS jacks, not balanced amps. When this works it is probably due to the internal switch contacts contacts in the 6.3 mm jack.


----------



## Sillyness

jayville36 said:


> I am a relatively new owner of the Mjolnir and Gugnir.  I have powered monitor speakers connected through the balanced pre-out jacks.   My headphones (Mr. Speaker Alpha Primes) are connected to the balanced XLR jack.   I was under the impression that when the headphones are plugged in, the speakers would mute automatically. I was mistaken...the sound comes out of both!
> 
> Does this mean I have to disconnect the speakers or turn the power switches off whenever I want to listen to the headphones in order to prevent the speakers from playing at the same time?


 
  
 Just as a possible suggestion. I have my monitors plugged into a powerstrip, which is itself plugged into a power director with switched outlets that sits within arm's reach of my computer chair. In this way, I can leave the sub and monitors switched on on their backs and give them power or take it away at the press of one button. Just another option for you to consider.


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone use another brand of amp and dac other then Schiit? 
I'm wanting to get more into audio, 
By both sterio and headphone 

But, Schiit really spelled it out (in a blog I read, or if it's in their site) that, 
Between manufacturers and retailers -your paying allot, and Schiit has great quality for less, so, 
As far as exploring audio, 

What ELS is good? 

Schiit is great!!!!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

jayville36 said:


> I am a relatively new owner of the Mjolnir and Gugnir.  I have powered monitor speakers connected through the balanced pre-out jacks.   My headphones (Mr. Speaker Alpha Primes) are connected to the balanced XLR jack.   I was under the impression that when the headphones are plugged in, the speakers would mute automatically.  I was mistaken....the sound comes out of both!
> 
> Does this mean I have to disconnect the speakers or turn the power switches off whenever I want to listen to the headphones in order to prevent the speakers from playing at the same time?
> 
> How can this be solved?



I don't yet have it- but the PDF manual addresses this


----------



## Exacoustatowner

reddog said:


> I am working on a custom grocery cart the will have a usb port, and a place for 3 car batteries, need something to run my rag and yiggy.
> Hey a homeless Audiophile must have the basics covered lol. I wonder if I can get a portable generator that runs on moonshine .



Hahah! I think you want Deep Cycle Marine batteries and a voltage inverter to convert to AC. Better design for constant power! I like your concept!


----------



## David Aldrich

I bought a Matrix M-DAC, haven't been impressed, it went to work for speaker use.
  
 HRT Music Streamer HD is a nice DAC, doesn't do anything wrong, dead quiet noise floor but the Gungnir spanks it. Not sure how it would compare to the Bifrost.


----------



## hodgjy

david aldrich said:


> I bought a Matrix M-DAC, haven't been impressed, it went to work for speaker use.
> 
> HRT Music Streamer HD is a nice DAC, doesn't do anything wrong, dead quiet noise floor but the Gungnir spanks it. Not sure how it would compare to the Bifrost.


 
 How do you describe the sound of the Gungnir? It's on my shortlist to upgrade my Bifrost.


----------



## David Aldrich

hodgjy said:


> How do you describe the sound of the Gungnir? It's on my shortlist to upgrade my Bifrost.


 

 It sounds like what I expect the music should sound like. Doesn't seem to emphasize anything, nor really lacking anything.
  
 I'd say if you're looking for a neutral DAC with a well balanced character it would be a good choice. I've been very happy with it.
  
 One thing worth noting is that the balanced output is better than the single ended outputs. The single ended outputs also have a much higher noise floor. I can only hear the noise floor of my amp with Gungnir and it's got a low noise floor itself.


----------



## hodgjy

david aldrich said:


> It sounds like what I expect the music should sound like. Doesn't seem to emphasize anything, nor really lacking anything.
> 
> I'd say if you're looking for a neutral DAC with a well balanced character it would be a good choice. I've been very happy with it.
> 
> One thing worth noting is that the balanced output is better than the single ended outputs. The single ended outputs also have a much higher noise floor. I can only hear the noise floor of my amp with Gungnir and it's got a low noise floor itself.


 
 Thanks for your impressions. I'm mostly happy with my Bifrost, but my tax return is burning a hole in my pocket. I'm considering Gungir or Teac UD-501. My amp does have XLR in.


----------



## imahawki

Sorry if this has been covered somewhere in the last 600+ pages but I'm getting ready to order a Bifrost/Lyr stack.  Is there any word on the Bifrost potentially being updated?


----------



## StanD

imahawki said:


> Sorry if this has been covered somewhere in the last 600+ pages but I'm getting ready to order a Bifrost/Lyr stack.  Is there any word on the Bifrost potentially being updated?


 
 Nothing in the wind. Updates should be in the form of plugin boards that work with the existing Bifrost, so down the road we should be covered.


----------



## KLJTech

Unlike a lot of companies, Schiit Audio has shown that they will actually offer updates/upgrades when they're meaningful and it's extremely difficult to beat their DAC's at each given price point. I think you'll love the Bifrost and Lyr.


----------



## imahawki

Thanks.  I went ahead and ordered.  I was more concerned about some imminent update that I wasn't aware of.  While I get that the Bifrost is updateable, it would be a big bummer for people who JUST purchased.  If an Uber USB is $520 and then a new update comes out that's $150, its likely that that update would be included in the same or similar price of a new unit vs. paying for the unit and the upgrade.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Well now that I'm probably not getting the Mjolnir due to the Liquid Carbon (damn them, taking my money from schiit) I'm at a loss as to how I'm going to have any kind of volume control to my speaker amp in the far future. Still, I'll be getting the Gungnir, so now the search is on for an amp/preamp with XLR out!


----------



## Pirakaphile

imahawki said:


> Thanks.  I went ahead and ordered.  I was more concerned about some imminent update that I wasn't aware of.  While I get that the Bifrost is updateable, it would be a big bummer for people who JUST purchased.  If an Uber USB is $520 and then a new update comes out that's $150, its likely that that update would be included in the same or similar price of a new unit vs. paying for the unit and the upgrade.


 
 I doubt you'd be that disappointed, since it's not like a big update is going to be a substantial increase in sound quality. The Bifrost Uber USB is supposed to be a really good DAC anyway.


----------



## Netrum

After much reading and being unable to decide i have decided.
I will be getting the Bifrost uber and a lyr 2 this fall.
Time to upgrade my 2 year old modi and asgard 2. ^^


----------



## Pirakaphile

netrum said:


> After much reading and being unable to decide i have decided.
> I will be getting the Bifrost uber and a lyr 2 this fall.
> Time to upgrade my 2 year old modi and asgard 2. ^^


 
 I'm gonna guess you'll be very happy with your future setup!


----------



## theblueprint

imahawki said:


> Thanks.  I went ahead and ordered.  I was more concerned about some imminent update that I wasn't aware of.  While I get that the Bifrost is updateable, it would be a big bummer for people who JUST purchased.  If an Uber USB is $520 and then a new update comes out that's $150, its likely that that update would be included in the same or similar price of a new unit vs. paying for the unit and the upgrade.


 
  
 I predict that Schiit would update the Gungnir first since Bifrost Uber is getting too close to its bigger brother. And Jason also mentioned that no updates will be done this year, so you still have at least a year before something shows up for the Bifrost.


----------



## Mofomamy

How likely do we think it is that there will be Gungnir Uber upgrades based on innovations pioneered by Yggy?


----------



## hodgjy

mofomamy said:


> How likely do we think it is that there will be Gungnir Uber upgrades based on innovations pioneered by Yggy?


 
 I think it will be a low chance the modulation portion is updated like everyone is hoping for. It's one thing to update the Bifrost analog stage, and it's another to update the entire digital front end of the Gungnir to R2R modulation. If anything, the Gungnir Uber (if it will exist) will maintain the same Delta-Sigma modulation but have a new analog stage similar to the Yggy.
  
 Also, don't forget the that the Gungnir has already been updated once. USB gen 2 was a monumental upgrade.


----------



## theblueprint

hodgjy said:


> I think it will be a low chance the modulation portion is updated like everyone is hoping for. It's one thing to update the Bifrost analog stage, and it's another to update the entire digital front end of the Gungnir to R2R modulation. If anything, the Gungnir Uber (if it will exist) will maintain the same Delta-Sigma modulation but have a new analog stage similar to the Yggy.
> 
> Also, don't forget the that the Gungnir has already been updated once. USB gen 2 was a monumental upgrade.




I agree with your speculations on Gungnir being upgraded to R2R. If it ever becomes a reality, we would probably have to send in our Gungnirs to have it installed by Schiit (an upgrade of such magnitude would not allow for self installs). 

Also, I noticed on purrin's DAC thread that yggy uses USB gen 3. Would that upgrade be available sometime for bifrost and gungnir? What is improved over gen 2? (seeing that Gen 2 is about as good as it gets)


----------



## hodgjy

theblueprint said:


> I agree with your speculations on Gungnir being upgraded to R2R. If it ever becomes a reality, we would probably have to send in our Gungnirs to have it installed by Schiit (an upgrade of such magnitude would not allow for self installs).
> 
> Also, I noticed on purrin's DAC thread that yggy uses USB gen 3. Would that upgrade be available sometime for bifrost and gungnir? What is improved over gen 2? (seeing that Gen 2 is about as good as it gets)


 
 From what I understand, the Gen 3 USB has some of the decrapification of the Wyrd. However, Wyrd is still said to improve the Yggy with Gen 3, so no one other than Schiit really knows what going on with that upgrade. It's quite possible Gen 3 USB will appear for Gungnir and Bifrost.


----------



## blitzxgene

hodgjy said:


> I think it will be a low chance the modulation portion is updated like everyone is hoping for. It's one thing to update the Bifrost analog stage, and it's another to update the entire digital front end of the Gungnir to R2R modulation. If anything, the Gungnir Uber (if it will exist) will maintain the same Delta-Sigma modulation but have a new analog stage similar to the Yggy.
> 
> Also, don't forget the that the Gungnir has already been updated once. USB gen 2 was a monumental upgrade.


 
 Seems that the D/A stage of the Gungnir is not modular, but the analog outputs and usb card are. Good news is that there exists a lower end version of the BRUZ chip that is capable of 18 bits of resolution (instead of 20) used in the Yggy that might very well work in a smaller chassis, plus it's quite a bit cheaper. I'm eager to see what they do after the Yggy has been released for a few months.


----------



## hodgjy

blitzxgene said:


> Seems that the D/A stage of the Gungnir is not modular, but the analog outputs and usb card are. Good news is that there exists a lower end version of the BRUZ chip that is capable of 18 bits of resolution (instead of 20) used in the Yggy that might very well work in a smaller chassis, plus it's quite a bit cheaper. I'm eager to see what they do after the Yggy has been released for a few months.


 
 I believe the DAC chips are on the modular cards, just like Bifrost. The Uber upgrade card also includes the DAC chip.


----------



## Pirakaphile

What's the benefit of an analog upgrade on the current Bifrost and Gungnir? Or is it just the extra .02 % that we're striving for now?


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> What's the benefit of an analog upgrade on the current Bifrost and Gungnir? Or is it just the extra .02 % that we're striving for now?


 
 Might even be the 0.02% that we cannot even hear because we are carbon units.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Might even be the 0.02% that we cannot even hear because we are carbon units.



Are you making fun of my recent purchase, or explaining the physical constraints placed on carbon based life?


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Are you making fun of my recent purchase, or explaining the physical constraints placed on carbon based life?


 
 Explaining the physical constraints of us human beings, which can only be exceeded by our imaginations.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Explaining the physical constraints of us human beings, which can only be exceeded by our imaginations.



The more you know..


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> The more you know..


 
 That depends on the individual, some people hear Schiit based upon what they've been told, some people hear what they want to and others learn to listen properly.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> That depends on the individual, some people hear Schiit based upon what they've been told, some people hear what they want to and others learn to listen properly.


 
 I just hear what I hear 'cause I've never heard anything else other than the 80's Technics CD player. I'm usually pretty objective because I forget everything I read in reviews shortly after I close the link.


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> That depends on the individual, some people hear Schiit based upon what they've been told, some people hear what they want to and others learn to listen properly.



People in all three categories think they're all in the third one.


----------



## Pirakaphile

billheiser said:


> People in all three categories think they're all in the third one.


 
 That's why you can always trust the ignorant to spout the truth!


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> That's why you can always trust the ignorant to spout the truth!


 
 Out of the mouths of babes. No way


----------



## fabythom2713

I'm a lucky soab


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> Out of the mouths of babes. No way


 
 Why not? They've got the most sensitive hearing anyway!


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Why not? They've got the most sensitive hearing anyway!


 
 I listen way too loud for them.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

I'm in the third category! No confirmation bias here!


----------



## almoskosz

I am soon to be a,schiit owner, i want to buy the lyr2 and then later this year a bifrost  
Looking forward!
Btw can anyone confirm that the Lyr 2 fits the HE-400i good?


----------



## reddog

almoskosz said:


> I am soon to be a,schiit owner, i want to buy the lyr2 and then later this year a bifrost
> Looking forward!
> Btw can anyone confirm that the Lyr 2 fits the HE-400i good?



The lyr2 really has good synergy with the he-400i. The lyr2 makes the he-400i sing like a muse of fire. This combination will make you very happy.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

reddog said:


> The lyr2 really has good synergy with the he-400i. The lyr2 makes the he-400i sing like a muse of fire. This combination will make you very happy.




I like that. Muse of fire. Appropriate for the incandescent flame of tubes lighting up the night!


----------



## almoskosz

It's insane that i get more and more reasons to buy the lyr 2 which i literally have found 2 days ago as a potential amp to buy, against the months of confusion when i wanted to buy solid state ones. 
 Long live the Hybrid amps!


----------



## Koolpep

almoskosz said:


> I am soon to be a,schiit owner, i want to buy the lyr2 and then later this year a bifrost
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It sounds awesome with my HE-400 (and HE-560, LCD-2f, HD650) - I decided though to go with the Gustard H10 for other reasons, but honestly the Lyr2 is pretty amazing. You will not want to stop using it. Not many amps can drive the HE-400 (or HE-400i) "proper". The Lyr does.


----------



## Tuco1965

My original Lyr pairs very well with the HE-400i.


----------



## fabythom2713

koolpep said:


> It sounds awesome with my HE-400 (and HE-560, LCD-2f, HD650) - I decided though to go with the Gustard H10 for other reasons, but honestly the Lyr2 is pretty amazing. You will not want to stop using it. Not many amps can drive the HE-400 (or HE-400i) "proper". The Lyr does.



Question: can i drive the same he-400i with the asgard2? Thanks


----------



## Tuco1965

fabythom2713 said:


> Question: can i drive the same he-400i with the asgard2? Thanks




I don't have an Asgard 2, but it would easily drive the 400is.


----------



## reddog

almoskosz said:


> It's insane that i get more and more reasons to buy the lyr 2 which i literally have found 2 days ago as a potential amp to buy, against the months of confusion when i wanted to buy solid state ones.
> Long live the Hybrid amps!



Especially when you have replaced the stock tubes for NOS tubes like the Vokshods or Telefunken. I have had good luck with current produced tubes Genalex Gold Lions and Telefunken TK's. NOS tubes are much better, just be diligent in checking ebay and then checking on head-fi about the tubes and the trader/ seller.


----------



## reddog

fabythom2713 said:


> Question: can i drive the same he-400i with the asgard2? Thanks



I also use the Asgard 2 to drive my Alpha Prime's and I am really happy with the result. The bass is tight, the mids are smooth, not edgy, and highs are crisp, no sibilance, and do not fatigue my ears. I normally listen at the 12 a clock position. But I can crank it, when needed, and the sound quality never degrades.


----------



## swspiers

koolpep said:


> It sounds awesome with my HE-400 (and HE-560, LCD-2f, HD650) - I decided though to go with the Gustard H10 for other reasons, but honestly the Lyr2 is pretty amazing. You will not want to stop using it. Not many amps can drive the HE-400 (or HE-400i) "proper". The Lyr does.


 
 Really?  I think the list of amps that can't drive the 400i's "proper" is pretty short...


----------



## StanD

swspiers said:


> Really?  I think the list of amps that can't drive the 400i's "proper" is pretty short...


 
 It's 4 dB/mW more sensitive than the HE-500's which have a nice long list of great amps.


----------



## superjawes

The HE-400 doesn't seem too difficult to drive, either, and the 400i was designed to be _more_ sensitive than that. An Asgard shouldn't have any trouble.


----------



## Tuco1965

My AKG Sextetts are harder to drive than the HE-400is, and I drive both with ease with my Magni.


----------



## StanD

Looks like I'm not the only person with that opinion.


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> Looks like I'm not the only person with that opinion.




Check out some other threads - me neither 

Ok amps where the HE-400 didn't sound really that great: nuForce icon HDP, Asgard, T1 Mk2, most portable players, etc. there is quite a few people who sold their HE-400 because they were missing out on what that headphone is capable off. But it also depends a lot on what music you are listening to. 

Anyhow, once you hear the HE-400 on a Lyr or V-200 or H10 or Ragnarok, Mjolnir - you simply can't go back. 

Am sure if you have never heard it on any other amp you might be happy - but once you did - there is no going back...

Cheers,
K


----------



## Koolpep

swspiers said:


> Really?  I think the list of amps that can't drive the 400i's "proper" is pretty short...




I can't speak for the HE-400i but I do have the HE-400 and a few amps. I am just reporting on my own and my friends impressions when listening to this very HE-400 with different amps. 

Anyhow. Will do another field test on our next meet. 

A lot of amps should technically drive it well, it just doesn't sound great. 

It's like a car. A spec sheet doesn't tell you how much fun it is to drive a car.


----------



## Koolpep

tuco1965 said:


> My AKG Sextetts are harder to drive than the HE-400is, and I drive both with ease with my Magni.




Yes the Magni drives it well too indeed. I had the Magni2Uber until two weeks ago and yes it was great with HE-400. But the original Asgard. Nope. 

Anyhow. I very much preferred the Lyr2 with the orange globes. But if you are happy with its sound - that's all that matters. I am now too


----------



## Tuco1965

My main is a Lyr loaded with Voskhods.


----------



## Koolpep

fabythom2713 said:


> Question: can i drive the same he-400i with the asgard2? Thanks




Probably it will sounds great judging from other people's experience here. I can only speak for the non-i version on the old Asgard. While it sounded good - it wasn't great. The new Asgard 2 is certainly better as is the way improved HE-400i - guess you will be fine. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## Koolpep

tuco1965 said:


> My main is a Lyr loaded with Voskhods.




Yummy.


----------



## 520RanchBro

swspiers said:


> Really?  I think the list of amps that can't drive the 400i's "proper" is pretty short...


 

 Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree. Unless there's something weird going on, the 400is look to be more efficient than the 400s they replaced. My Geek Out 450 drives the 400s just about as well as my Asgard 2. So I'm guessing the 400i is pretty easy to drive and a lot of amps should work for it.


----------



## StanD

koolpep said:


> I can't speak for the HE-400i but I do have the HE-400 and a few amps. I am just reporting on my own and my friends impressions when listening to this very HE-400 with different amps.
> 
> Anyhow. Will do another field test on our next meet.
> 
> ...


 
 So what property of an amp is required to make a 400i sound great?
 There are many spec's that determine how a car will handle or be fun to drive. Lateral adhesion, lateral acceleration, weight transfer, torque, horsepower, 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed, braking distances, brake fade and so on and on.


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> So what property of an amp is required to make a 400i sound great?
> There are many spec's that determine how a car will handle or be fun to drive. Lateral adhesion, lateral acceleration, weight transfer, torque, horsepower, 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed, braking distances, brake fade and so on and on.




Your ears are the judge. I have no idea which specs make some amps sound so much better with a specific headphone. It's probably a mix of certain specs of the headphones and their synergy with the amp's specs.

As per the car: none of your specs have anything to do with the fun of driving that particular car over another one with the same performance figures. The are technical facts no doubt. But what makes driving a car fun is steering feel, driving position, engine sound, suspension settings, power delivery, brake feel, transmission, pedal positions. Hundreds of little things need to come together to make a car a true and exciting driver's car. A true drivers car informs the driver thru all senses about its grip level, steering position, surface conditions etc. it just puts a smile on your face.

That's why besides all specs - only a test drive will show if a car is fun.


----------



## StanD

koolpep said:


> Your ears are the judge. I have no idea which specs make some amps sound so much better with a specific headphone. It's probably a mix of certain specs of the headphones and their synergy with the amp's specs.
> 
> As per the car: none of your specs have anything to do with the fun of driving that particular car over another one with the same performance figures. The are technical facts no doubt. But what makes driving a car fun is steering feel, driving position, engine sound, suspension settings, power delivery, brake feel, transmission, pedal positions. Hundreds of little things need to come together to make a car a true and exciting driver's car. A true drivers car informs the driver thru all senses about its grip level, steering position, surface conditions etc. it just puts a smile on your face.
> 
> That's why besides all specs - only a test drive will show if a car is fun.


 
 Pedal positions, settings, etc are properties that can be identified, you just named them. Can't you name the properties of an amp?
 Amps are simple, the human imagination is not. If you enjoy whatever you are using, go for it.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

stand said:


> Pedal positions, settings, etc are properties that can be identified, you just named them. Can't you name the properties of an amp?
> Amps are simple, the human imagination is not. If you enjoy whatever you are using, go for it.




The human imagination accounts for the music you listen to.

I did not pass a blind test by noting I preferred yang rou pao mo at the restaurant in Xian instead of the pao mo in Nanjing. But perhaps I only imagines it...


----------



## StanD

liu junyuan said:


> The human imagination accounts for the music you listen to.
> 
> I did not pass a blind test by noting I preferred yang rou pao mo at the restaurant in Xian instead of the pao mo in Nanjing. But perhaps I only imagines it...


 
 Ther's a profound difference between human cooks doing things differently and the time traveling between cities affecting the fine comparitive details of memory. Amps having a flat FR and distortion levels below human perception is a whole other story. I've learned to contain any overimaginative influences.
 You'll have to _*cook*_ up a better analogy.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

stand said:


> Ther's a profound difference between human cooks doing things differently and the time traveling between cities affecting the fine comparitive details of memory. Amps having a flat FR and distortion levels below human perception is a whole other story. I've learned to contain any overimaginative influences.
> You'll have to _*cook*_ up a better analogy.




I agree that there was not a perfect analogy. Nice wit on the cooking. Did that require imagination? 

But the point was that I relied on my flawed memory to assess the differences between the two dishes. No need to have both before me A Bing them to know.


----------



## StanD

liu junyuan said:


> I agree that there was not a perfect analogy. Nice wit on the cooking. Did that require imagination?
> 
> But the point was that I relied on my flawed memory to assess the differences between the two dishes. No need to have both before me A Bing them to know.


 
 The bit on cooking didn't require much effort.
 Humans make lousy witnesses, period. I was at a deposition for an auto accident where the other person said my car was red, too bad for her that it was black.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

stand said:


> The bit on cooking didn't require much effort.
> Humans make lousy witnesses, period. I was at a deposition for an auto accident where the other person said my car was red, too bad for her that it was black.




Hehe really? 

But I do think we should not trash the importance of memory or imagination--most of our music is constituted by it. 

Here is what I find respectful about you, though: you stick with your gear and do not easily flop around fickly. You evidently do read. And you have a sharp wit like Jason Stoddard's


----------



## StanD

liu junyuan said:


> Hehe really?
> 
> But I do think we should not trash the importance of memory or imagination--most of our music is constituted by it.
> 
> Here is what I find respectful about you, though: you stick with your gear and do not easily flop around fickly. You evidently do read. And you have a sharp wit like Jason Stoddard's


 
 Thanks for the compliments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Without imagination I don't think we could appreciate music or art. The audio kit is the medium that carries music to us. If the SQ isn't top flight I can still enjoy and appreciate the music. If the music was poor, the best kit couldn't help it. These days most equipment has exceeded our abilities of sensory perception, I think most of us can't admit it. Take a peek at my signature to see some of my thinking.


----------



## hodgjy

liu junyuan said:


> I agree that there was not a perfect analogy. Nice wit on the cooking. Did that require imagination?
> 
> But the point was that I relied on my flawed memory to assess the differences between the two dishes. No need to have both before me A Bing them to know.


 
 Even some of the best chefs can't correctly identify foods during blind tests. It was a good analogy. Perception is reality in many cases.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

stand said:


> Thanks for the compliments :wink_face:
> Without imagination I don't think we could appreciate music or art. The audio kit is the medium that carries music to us. If the SQ isn't top flight I can still enjoy and appreciate the music. If the music was poor, the best kit couldn't help it. These days most equipment has exceeded our abilities of sensory perception, I think most of us can't admit it. Take a peek at my signature to see some of my thinking.




I have peeked. When my father was searching impressions on the HD 600, which he now owns and loves, I specified certain posters to ignore and take seriously. You wereone of the latter. Not a man of bull schitt!


----------



## AntonP

Hi, I'm new to the site and audio stuff in general. I just got my modi 2 in the mail, but I have no idea how to use it (or create my own thread for that matter). I found an old USB A to B plug around my house and plugged it in. The Modi 2 light turned on, and I set the Modi 2 as my default speakers, but there is no sound. Can anyone help me?
  
 I have windows 8.1. I don't use headphones, so no, I don't have a Magni 2.


----------



## Mr Rick

antonp said:


> Hi, I'm new to the site and audio stuff in general. I just got my modi 2 in the mail, but I have no idea how to use it (or create my own thread for that matter). I found an old USB A to B plug around my house and plugged it in. The Modi 2 light turned on, and I set the Modi 2 as my default speakers, but there is no sound. Can anyone help me?
> 
> I have windows 8.1. I don't use headphones, so no, I don't have a Magni 2.


 
 What are you expecting to happen?   What do you have connected to the output of the Modi 2??


----------



## money4me247

antonp said:


> Hi, I'm new to the site and audio stuff in general. I just got my modi 2 in the mail, but I have no idea how to use it (or create my own thread for that matter). I found an old USB A to B plug around my house and plugged it in. The Modi 2 light turned on, and I set the Modi 2 as my default speakers, but there is no sound. Can anyone help me?
> 
> I have windows 8.1. I don't use headphones, so no, I don't have a Magni 2.


 
 Modi 2 is a dac. Your setup should be like this: Computer > Modi > amplifier > external speakers/headphones OR computer --> Modi --> powered speakers
  
 If you connect the Modi 2 to your computer, you will need something else connected to the Modi 2 to play out music. Your built-in computer speakers will not be able to use the Modi 2.
  
 edit: if you are looking for something to improve your built-in computer speakers sound quality, you are NOT looking for an external dac (like the Modi 2). You should be looking for internal sound cards.


----------



## AntonP

I have corsairs sp 2500's, how do I connect the speakers to the DAC?


----------



## rmullins08

Just need RCA cables to the Line Input


----------



## AntonP

So i need RCA to line in running from the DAC > PC as well as Speakers>PC?


----------



## money4me247

antonp said:


> So i need RCA to line in running from the DAC > PC as well as Speakers>PC?


 
 PC --USB to USB-B--> Dac --RCA to RCA--> speakers (only if your speakers are already internally powered/have a built-in amplifier).


----------



## StanD

antonp said:


> So i need RCA to line in running from the DAC > PC as well as Speakers>PC?


 
 You will need the USB cable to connect the PC to the Modi and a stereo RCA cable to connect the Modi to powered speakers or an amp and then speakers.


----------



## AntonP

money4me247 said:


> PC --USB to USB-B--> Dac --RCA to RCA--> speakers (only if your speakers are already internally powered/have a built-in amplifier).


 
  
  


rmullins08 said:


> Just need RCA cables to the Line Input


 
  
 These are two conflicting pieces of information. My speakers are internally powered and have a built-in amplifier.
  
 If I connect the DAC and speakers together with an RCA to RCA cable, then there is no line in going into the computer, is this okay?
 There is also a line in port on the speakers, I tried to connect the DAC to the speakers with an RCA to Line in, but there isn't any sound.


----------



## rmullins08

antonp said:


> These are two conflicting pieces of information. My speakers are internally powered and have a built-in amplifier.
> 
> If I connect the DAC and speakers together with an RCA to RCA cable, then there is no line in going into the computer, is this okay?
> There is also a line in port on the speakers, I tried to connect the DAC to the speakers with an RCA to Line in, but there isn't any sound.


 

 They are the same answer.    You just asked how to connect the speakers to the DAC.
  
 USB from PC to DAC.  RCA from DAC to Speakers.


----------



## AntonP

rmullins08 said:


> They are the same answer.    You just asked how to connect the speakers to the DAC.
> 
> USB from PC to DAC.  RCA from DAC to Speakers.


 
 Originally you said DAC to Speakers was an RCA to line in. So if I use an RCA to RCA for the DAC to Speakers, I don't need a RCA to line in going from the speakers to PC anymore?


----------



## rmullins08

antonp said:


> Originally you said DAC to Speakers was an RCA to line in. So if I use an RCA to RCA for the DAC to Speakers, I don't need a RCA to line in going from the speakers to PC anymore?


 

 I haven't changed what I said.  You don't need anything from the PC to the speakers.  The audio processing is handled by the DAC and then passed onto the speakers now.
  
 PC -> DAC -> Speakers


----------



## money4me247

antonp said:


> Originally you said DAC to Speakers was an RCA to line in. So if I use an RCA to RCA for the DAC to Speakers, I don't need a RCA to line in going from the speakers to PC anymore?


 
 The Modi 2 has a usb 2.0 digital input and a RCA output.
  
 You will need a 'source' > dac > amplifier > headphone/speakers. A source is what you are playing the music from. Since your amplifier is built into your speakers, the chain will be 'PC' > dac > speakers. You connect the PC to the Dac via usb. You connect to dac to the speakers via a cable with a RCA connector on the dac end & whatever input your speakers have on the other end of the cable.


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> Pedal positions, settings, etc are properties that can be identified, you just named them. Can't you name the properties of an amp?
> Amps are simple, the human imagination is not. If you enjoy whatever you are using, go for it.




Hi Stan,

You cherry pick. Steering feel? Eagerness of the engine to rev up? Engine sound? What is the correct seating position for you (every human is build differently unless you are a twin)? How do you find that in specs? Some things need to be experienced to be identified. Anyhow.

You say every amp with enough power will make the HE-400 sound as good as it gets. From experience I say: nope. With how many amps did you hear your HE-400? Did you do some ABX tests? Some amps, make me forget about everything and start me toe tapping and dancing around the house when I listen to my music. Some others don't. Same as your signature says: I love my music and listen to i, since I wear headphones around 5 hours a dayt. Some gear makes this incredibly emotional and sweeps me away, drags me into the music and I forget everything around. 

Some don't. Or at least, it isn't measured at the moment. I am sure with more research, they might be identified. 

Let's just agree to disagree. But I don't like unsubstantiated claims, I do ABX tests. Very often I find the same as you but I think we can't generalize. That there is no meaningful difference. And we all know how much snake oil is around. So I do understand your desire to quantify and measure everything.

But in some areas I am with Tyll from innerifdelity. Some stuff just sounds more engaging and makes my music sound just right. 

Cheerio,
K


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> Pedal positions, settings, etc are properties that can be identified, you just named them. Can't you name the properties of an amp?
> Amps are simple, the human imagination is not. If you enjoy whatever you are using, go for it.




The perfect car specs are not easy, otherwise there would be no fun in car racing, everyone would know how to build the perfect car and just do it. Thankfully that is not the case. We can measure a lot but still need to build it, try it, to judge it, feel it and see how it performs...

Hm, re-read your question: properties of an amp. Well I would say that depends on my music and setup. An ideal amp should bring out the best of my headphones, should individually offset all the flaws of the headphone and make it sound fun and engaging. That's a lot to ask. And hard to quantify. How do I define the right amount of soundstage? I don't know.

I do enjoy what I am using, so much so that I bother to share my experience because I want everyone else to be able to have the same experience, because I like and enjoy it so much. This is was head-if is about, no?

Coming back to Schiit. I owned the Asgard, Valhalla, magni2u, Magni, Vali and have borrowed a friends lyr2.

To me, and with my headphones, the Lyr2 was hands down the best. (in the < $500 area)

Cheers,
K


----------



## StanD

koolpep said:


> The perfect car specs are not easy, otherwise there would be no fun in car racing, everyone would know how to build the perfect car and just do it. Thankfully that is not the case. We can measure a lot but still need to build it, try it, to judge it, feel it and see how it performs...
> 
> Hm, re-read your question: properties of an amp. Well I would say that depends on my music and setup. An ideal amp should bring out the best of my headphones, should individually offset all the flaws of the headphone and make it sound fun and engaging. That's a lot to ask. And hard to quantify. How do I define the right amount of soundstage? I don't know.
> 
> ...


 
 Cars and amps are not a useful comparison, like apples and oranges.
 Despite popular myth, Soundstage is not a useful comparative property of amps. It is recorded spacial cues and if anything more of a headphone issue for reproduction. If an amp has a problem with treble then it can affect our perception of soundstage, however, amps have a flat FR, thus no issues. When it comes to audio, all too often, "I believe thus it is true" happens more than it should be. If it works for someone then that's fine for them, I am not easily convinced of what is not there. Call me stubborn but I don't think I'm all that suggestible.
 Lyr2 is great if you need the extra power, which is hardly ever the case as most low impedance headphones do not need more than 1W. If one feels the need to roll tubes the Lyr2 or a pure tube amp might be in their cards, I prefer SS.


----------



## raybone0566

Anyone do any comparisons between the lyr2 and any of the violectric amps. Looking to pull the trigger on one of those. I know lyr is tube & the hpa series is solid state.


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> Cars and amps are not a useful comparison, like apples and oranges.
> Despite popular myth, Soundstage is not a useful comparative property of amps. It is recorded spacial cues and if anything more of a headphone issue for reproduction. If an amp has a problem with treble then it can affect our perception of soundstage, however, amps have a flat FR, thus no issues. When it comes to audio, all too often, "I believe thus it is true" happens more than it should be. If it works for someone then that's fine for them, I am not easily convinced of what is not there. Call me stubborn but I don't think I'm all that suggestible.
> Lyr2 is great if you need the extra power, which is hardly ever the case as most low impedance headphones do not need more than 1W. If one feels the need to roll tubes the Lyr2 or a pure tube amp might be in their cards, I prefer SS.


 

 Hmm, I would say it's valid and not apples and oranges, because the principle it outlines is exactly same. The principle is that in the real world many things influence the performance or "feel" of a technical device. Some make your spine tingle, some don't. They might or might not be in measurable specifications OR they are in things that are not yet measured or can't be quantified. 
  
 If the microphone placement during the recording was good and the amp produces the music properly with some tracks you can pinpoint the exact locations of the instruments. Then with another amp, you can't, it's flat and small. Is it the treble? Could be, but I bet on a combination of causes why this is happening. for example: I am at the moment listening to a Sony MDR-1A frequency range: up to 100kHz so more treble range than anybody needs. Still not necessary the soundstage masters...Why?
  
 Based on your theory my headphones should sound the same given the amp has enough power to drive them. However, I found that not to be true (and the only thing I can call true is what I hear, because I only have my own ears). Even if based on specifications the headphone doesn't necessary need more power overall, with some headphones it's very beneficial. But not with all headphones. Maybe the drivers need certain voltage swings and wattage to sound their best in all frequencies which some amps provide and some don't. The overall mW only tell you one piece of the puzzle. A driver needs different combinations of wattage and voltage for different frequencies. Every headphone driver behaves different as does every amp. That's why amps sound differently.
  
 The other thing is, and here we are in total agreement: we all hear (perceive sound) differently. I can only describe what I hear, but that doesn't mean you will hear the same thing with your ears. Our ears have all different "specs". They are as unique as fingerprints in shape, size and shape of the ear canal, outer ears etc. this all creates different resonances and sound reflections that change how you or I perceive sounds. So specs might be a description of what technically should be there, but if one can hear that...
  
 My latest test revealed I can hear frequencies up to 17kHz - everything above that is not audible for me. I know people in their 20s that have ruined their hearing and can only hear frequencies up to 13-14kHz - that all has an impact of what we perceive.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Koolpep

raybone0566 said:


> Anyone do any comparisons between the lyr2 and any of the violectric amps. Looking to pull the trigger on one of those. I know lyr is tube & the hpa series is solid state.


 
  
 I tested the Lyr2 against the Gustard H10 which is a clone of the Violectric V200 for a few days. Both sounded really good with all headphones I tested. Since I already have a money pit for tubes (Bottlehead Crack) I decided to buy the H10 - but I would have been equally happy with the Lyr2 but wanted to prevent myself from spending a fortune for tubes 
  
 Since I went to university very close to the "Lake-People" in one of the prettiest regions of Germany - I recommend buying their amps  Just google "Lake constance" and look at images...3 countries border on that beautiful lake. I actually feel quite bad using a rip-off of their amps so will buy the "original" as soon as I can. But then, the Ragnarok.....
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## StanD

@Koolpep I will never be convinced that an automobile is bona fide means of comparison of experience to amps. I don't know why you're going of on driving conditions, I believe I already stated that the amp has to meet the driving needs of the headphones in use. The voltage swing required by a headphone/driver is a simple matter of impedance and sensitivity, the truth is that the volume is probably related to voltage swing and current/power is a calculation based upon that and impedance.
 And now we move away from amps, onto headphones and the acoustics/coupling to our unique ears.


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> @Koolpep I will never be convinced that an automobile is bona fide means of comparison of experience to amps. I don't know why you're going of on driving conditions, I believe I already stated that the amp has to meet the driving needs of the headphones in use. The voltage swing required by a headphone/driver is a simple matter of impedance and sensitivity, the truth is that the volume is probably related to voltage swing and current/power is a calculation based upon that and impedance.
> And now we move away from amps, onto headphones and the acoustics/coupling to our unique ears.


 

 No Stan, I thought we try to find common ground why amps that you claim should sound the same on the very same set of headphones do in fact not sound the same. You are saying it's simple and can be based on a few measurements, I am just telling you that this theory doesn't hold true in reality based on my very personal experience.
  
 HE-400 with Asgard (1) - metallic highs, bit unnatural, weak bass impact and slam
 HE-400 with Lyr2 - clear and more natural sounding highs, lovely bass impact - the bass I was missing
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## StanD

koolpep said:


> No Stan, I thought we try to find common ground why amps that you claim should sound the same on the very same set of headphones do in fact not sound the same. You are saying it's simple and can be based on a few measurements, I am just telling you that this theory doesn't hold true in reality based on my very personal experience.
> 
> HE-400 with Asgard (1) - metallic highs, bit unnatural, weak bass impact and slam
> HE-400 with Lyr2 - clear and more natural sounding highs, lovely bass impact - the bass I was missing
> ...


 
 I did not say that the same set of headphones will sound the same on all amps, I brought up that an amp must be able to properly drive the headphone in use. Excessive power is not required.
 Let's leave it that you believe in one thing and I another. Otherwise this will be an ongoing tennis match.
 Cheers


----------



## Koolpep

stand said:


> I did not say that the same set of headphones will sound the same on all amps, I brought up that an amp must be able to* properly drive the headphone in use*. Excessive power is not required.
> Let's leave it that you believe in one thing and I another. Otherwise this will be an ongoing tennis match.
> Cheers


 
  
 Ok. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## StanD

koolpep said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Back to our irregularly scheduled Schiit.


----------



## raybone0566

koolpep said:


> I tested the Lyr2 against the Gustard H10 which is a clone of the Violectric V200 for a few days. Both sounded really good with all headphones I tested. Since I already have a money pit for tubes (Bottlehead Crack) I decided to buy the H10 - but I would have been equally happy with the Lyr2 but wanted to prevent myself from spending a fortune for tubes
> 
> Since I went to university very close to the "Lake-People" in one of the prettiest regions of Germany - I recommend buying their amps  Just google "Lake constance" and look at images...3 countries border on that beautiful lake. I actually feel quite bad using a rip-off of their amps so will buy the "original" as soon as I can. But then, the Ragnarok.....
> 
> ...


Thanks Koolpep, going to go with violectric. Anyone looking for a fair deal on a vali or b-stock asgard2 feel free to pm me.


----------



## MWSVette

koolpep said:


> No Stan, I thought we try to find common ground why amps that you claim should sound the same on the very same set of headphones do in fact not sound the same. You are saying it's simple and can be based on a few measurements, I am just telling you that this theory doesn't hold true in reality based on my very personal experience.
> 
> HE-400 with Asgard (1) - metallic highs, bit unnatural, weak bass impact and slam
> HE-400 with Lyr2 - clear and more natural sounding highs, lovely bass impact - the bass I was missing
> ...


 

 The sound of both the Lyr and Lyr 2 are greatly effected the tube in use.  I have found the tube choice has a great deal to do with the SQ.


----------



## bretemm

I might get the Valhalla 2 soon, 
Will I be able to use it with my 5.1 marantz to add tube sound? 
Someone recommend that but, 
I tried to use the modi with my marantz but it only used only 2.1 of my 5.1 speakers


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> I might get the Valhalla 2 soon,
> Will I be able to use it with my 5.1 marantz to add tube sound?
> Someone recommend that but,
> I tried to use the modi with my marantz but it only used only 2.1 of my 5.1 speakers


 
 The V2 has only 2 channels. If you want 5.1 then this is not the right application for the V2.


----------



## bretemm

stand said:


> The V2 has only 2 channels. If you want 5.1 then this is not the right application for the V2.


 Ok, so would bookshelf speakers be good to use for the 2 channels? 
I am also wanting to use it with earbuds because in limited to earbuds but I don't know which ones would be the best for quality and sound


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, so would bookshelf speakers be good to use for the 2 channels?
> I am also wanting to use it with earbuds because in limited to earbuds but I don't know which ones would be the best for quality and sound


 
 Yes, powered/amplified bookshelf speakers would be perfect, attach to the preamp puts of the V2.
 Finding earbuds will require knowing your budget and desired sound profile. Probably best done in a different thread,


----------



## money4me247

stand said:


> Cars and amps are not a useful comparison, like apples and oranges.
> Despite popular myth, Soundstage is not a useful comparative property of amps. It is recorded spacial cues and if anything more of a headphone issue for reproduction. If an amp has a problem with treble then it can affect our perception of soundstage, however, amps have a flat FR, thus no issues. When it comes to audio, all too often, "I believe thus it is true" happens more than it should be. If it works for someone then that's fine for them, I am not easily convinced of what is not there. Call me stubborn but I don't think I'm all that suggestible.
> Lyr2 is great if you need the extra power, which is hardly ever the case as most low impedance headphones do not need more than 1W. If one feels the need to roll tubes the Lyr2 or a pure tube amp might be in their cards, I prefer SS.


 
 I do agree with this. A lot of times I do get the 'feeling' that adding additional amplification is contributing to a wider sound stage, but don't think that an amplifier really should have any impact on this aspect.
  
 it seems more to do with the source, headphones, and the psychoacoustics of hearing rather than adding an amplifier.


----------



## 520RanchBro

bretemm said:


> Ok, so would bookshelf speakers be good to use for the 2 channels?
> I am also wanting to use it with earbuds because in limited to earbuds but I don't know which ones would be the best for quality and sound


 

 Maybe the Valhalla is different but with my Asgard 2, I noticed no sound change or improvement adding it as a preamp to my powered speakers (Audioengine A2+ and Kanto YU5). I didn't know the preamp out of Schiit's headphone amps made a difference. To be honest the Valhalla 2 seems a bit overkill for just a preamp and for use with earbuds. But maybe people have found it to pleasantly color their sound when it's used solely as a preamp, just something I'd look in to. Or maybe it's just super killer with IEMs and I had no idea. I've found a DAC usually provides more of a difference in sound vs amplification though. Just something I thought you should look in to and consider. Overall, if you get the Valhalla 2, I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with it.


----------



## bretemm

520ranchbro said:


> Maybe the Valhalla is different but with my Asgard 2, I noticed no sound change or improvement adding it as a preamp to my powered speakers (Audioengine A2+ and Kanto YU5). I didn't know the preamp out of Schiit's headphone amps made a difference. To be honest the Valhalla 2 seems a bit overkill for just a preamp and for use with earbuds. But maybe people have found it to pleasantly color their sound when it's used solely as a preamp, just something I'd look in to. Or maybe it's just super killer with IEMs and I had no idea. I've found a DAC usually provides more of a difference in sound vs amplification though. Just something I thought you should look in to and consider. Overall, if you get the Valhalla 2, I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with it.


 thank you, I read that the Valhalla helps with guitar sound and adds detail, 
But, all in all Im looking at MartinLogan speakers and I'm wanting my marantz to sound as good as Schiit. The diffrence that I hear is awesome.


----------



## 520RanchBro

bretemm said:


> thank you, I read that the Valhalla helps with guitar sound and adds detail,
> But, all in all Im looking at MartinLogan speakers and I'm wanting my marantz to sound as good as Schiit. The diffrence that I hear is awesome.


 

 Hmm, must be a tube thing then, my Asgard 2 makes no difference. But then again, I'm using cheaper Kanto powered monitors. Certainly not the pinnacle of hifi but for $240, they fill my room well and sound solid.
  
 Anyone else test using their Schiit amp as a stereo preamp and notice a difference?


----------



## wahsmoh

anyone else here think the Asgard 2 is a chameleon sounding amp?? It never sounds harsh or brittle just smooth and natural. It really scales to my change in DAC. I went from Uber to vintage R2R DAC and have noticed the major changes in the DAC choice. I won't say which is better. All I will say is that my Uber makes a nice stand for my Asgard 2


----------



## cuiter23

520ranchbro said:


> Maybe the Valhalla is different but with my Asgard 2, *I noticed no sound change or improvement adding it as a preamp to my powered speakers (Audioengine A2+ and Kanto YU5)*. I didn't know the preamp out of Schiit's headphone amps made a difference. To be honest the Valhalla 2 seems a bit overkill for just a preamp and for use with earbuds. But maybe people have found it to pleasantly color their sound when it's used solely as a preamp, just something I'd look in to. Or maybe it's just super killer with IEMs and I had no idea. *I've found a DAC usually provides more of a difference in sound vs amplification though*. Just something I thought you should look in to and consider. Overall, if you get the Valhalla 2, I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with it.


 
  
 Just as a reference point, I found minimal (if any) sound differences using the built-in DAC on a Denon receiver vs the TEAC UD-501 connected to KEF R300s. The TEAC was quieter at the same volume but did not really note an increase in sound quality. Perhaps the built-in DAC of the Denon receiver was quite good already but the UD-501 certainly has the better chip (2x PCM 1795) but I couldn't hear a difference in overall SQ improvement. 
  
 Curious to what o'clock is your Asgard 2 at when using it as a pre-amp?


----------



## bearFNF

520ranchbro said:


> Hmm, must be a tube thing then, my Asgard 2 makes no difference. But then again, I'm using cheaper Kanto powered monitors. Certainly not the pinnacle of hifi but for $240, they fill my room well and sound solid.
> 
> Anyone else test using their Schiit amp as a stereo preamp and notice a difference?


 
 I use my Asgard 2 as pre-amp with my Decware Taboo MKIII and it gives me more range on the volume control. boost the signal so the Decware can drive my HD800's at a lower volume setting.
  


cuiter23 said:


> Just as a reference point, I found minimal (if any) sound differences using the built-in DAC on a Denon receiver vs the TEAC UD-501 connected to KEF R300s. The TEAC was quieter at the same volume but did not really note an increase in sound quality. Perhaps the built-in DAC of the Denon receiver was quite good already but the UD-501 certainly has the better chip (2x PCM 1795) but I couldn't hear a difference in overall SQ improvement.
> 
> Curious to what o'clock is your Asgard 2 at when using it as a pre-amp?


 
 My Asgard 2 is set at around 3 o'clock or so with my Taboo MkIII.


----------



## KLJTech

I've used the Asgard 2 as a preamp/headphone amp to my Parasound Halo A21 driving a pair of Maggie 1.7's and I think the Asgard does a great job as a preamp. It's clean/transparent sounding and that was with it replacing a Creek OBH-22 passive, the Asgard 2 sounds a bit more dynamic than the Creek but other than that it didn't appear to "add anything" which is a good thing. A preamp can make a huge difference, good or bad like anything else in the chain. I have a couple tube preamps and it's amazing how by simply adding them to the mix that the vocals (on good recordings) have more presence, like you could walk up and set your cup of coffee on the singers head if you wanted. I'm not saying that a preamp is as important as the speakers you use, but they can either choke or enhance your system.  *All of this is simply my opinion and I'm probably wrong* (to keep the lawyers and engineers happy)


----------



## 520RanchBro

I set my Asgard at about 1-2 O Clock, high gain. I've only noticed smaller DAC differences (between my GO450 and Modi 2 Uber, using Asgard 2 as the constant amp), but I've never seen an amp change much beside just give headphones enough power. Purely my experience though. I'm sure it could be useful as a preamp in plenty of rigs. It's certainly nice in that I don't have to get up from my desk to change the speakers' volume.


----------



## cuiter23

520ranchbro said:


> I set my Asgard at about 1-2 O Clock, high gain. I've only noticed smaller DAC differences (between my GO450 and Modi 2 Uber, using Asgard 2 as the constant amp), but I've never seen an amp change much beside just give headphones enough power. Purely my experience though. I'm sure it could be useful as a preamp in plenty of rigs. It's certainly nice in that I don't have to get up from my desk to change the speakers' volume.


 
  
 Thanks for the response.
  
 I've yet to hook up with GO to my Asgard 2 and compare it to the Modi. My initial guesses would be that the GO would sound a bit more detailed than the Modi with the standard TCM filter. What are your impressions?
  
 And yea, for sure I think every good amp should be as transparent as possible... but then you have tubes which tilt the balance a bit but then all depends on the end sound the user is trying to achieve!


----------



## 520RanchBro

cuiter23 said:


> Thanks for the response.
> 
> I've yet to hook up with GO to my Asgard 2 and compare it to the Modi. My initial guesses would be that the GO would sound a bit more detailed than the Modi with the standard TCM filter. What are your impressions?
> 
> And yea, for sure I think every good amp should be as transparent as possible... but then you have tubes which tilt the balance a bit but then all depends on the end sound the user is trying to achieve!


 
  
 I prefer the GO, it is as bit more detailed. Still holding on to my Modi2U for other sources and the differences between the two aren't huge. I do think the Asgard 2 drives the HE-400s just a bit better than the GO450, but the 450 is no slouch. I preordered the GO V2 and can't wait to be able to use my RE-600s on it without an adapter. I think it'll drive just about any headphone I end up getting just fine.


----------



## cuiter23

520ranchbro said:


> I prefer the GO, it is as bit more detailed. Still holding on to my Modi2U for other sources and the differences between the two aren't huge. I do think the Asgard 2 drives the HE-400s just a bit better than the GO450, but the 450 is no slouch. I preordered the GO V2 and can't wait to be able to use my RE-600s on it without an adapter. I think it'll drive just about any headphone I end up getting just fine.


 
  
 Exactly what I thought.
  
 The V2 is going to be a beast. The normal GO1000 is basically the last word in portable usb dac/amp combos. V2 I'm expecting would be on another level!


----------



## davidflas

520ranchbro said:


> Hmm, must be a tube thing then, my Asgard 2 makes no difference. But then again, I'm using cheaper Kanto powered monitors. Certainly not the pinnacle of hifi but for $240, they fill my room well and sound solid.
> 
> Anyone else test using their Schiit amp as a stereo preamp and notice a difference?


 

 I'm using my Valhalla2 as a preamp for speakers, and it made a huge difference in the sound quality vs. the Little Bear P8 that I was using before it. To my ears it has made listening to music much more pleasureful. For the record my set up is:  Mac Book Pro > USB > Schiit Bifrost Uber > RCA > Valhalla2 > RCA> DIY TPA3116 amp > Pioneer SP-BS22LR.


----------



## bretemm

How many stereo speakers does the Valhalla play through/use? I have a 5.1 marantz setup right now 





davidflas said:


> I'm using my Valhalla2 as a preamp for speakers, and it made a huge difference in the sound quality vs. the Little Bear P8 that I was using before it. To my ears it has made listening to music much more pleasureful. For the record my set up is:  Mac Book Pro > USB > Schiit Bifrost Uber > RCA > Valhalla2 > RCA> DIY TPA3116 amp > Pioneer SP-BS22LR.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> How many stereo speakers does the Valhalla play through/use? I have a 5.1 marantz setup right now


 

 2


----------



## bretemm

billheiser said:


> 2


 ok, so is getting the Valhalla2 worth it? In planning on getting MartinLogan bookshelf speakers as my fronts for now latter on


----------



## Exidrion

Is it okay to stack the Rag on the Yggy? I mean did they do that at Canjam?


----------



## davidflas

bretemm said:


> ok, so is getting the Valhalla2 worth it? In planning on getting MartinLogan bookshelf speakers as my fronts for now latter on





I'd be happy to give you my opinion, but first I need to know more about what you're hoping the addition of the Valhalla2 to your existing system will do for its sound. In other words, what is that you're not currently happy with?


----------



## bearFNF

exidrion said:


> Is it okay to stack the Rag on the Yggy? I mean did they do that at Canjam?


 

 Yep, that is the way they had it.  Rag on top, Yggy on the bottom.


----------



## hodgjy

The metal cases are heat sinks, so stack away.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> How many stereo speakers does the Valhalla play through/use? I have a 5.1 marantz setup right now


 
 I thought we went over this before, Stereo as in L/R or 2 channels, no more.


----------



## bretemm

Well, I have a marantz sr5009 also I have the magni and modi I'm using with my Apple TV and it's great with the more of a open space sound it has with my klipsch earbuds (I can't use headphones because of a medical thing I have and magnets) so with the Valhalla I'd like a more open sound like my magni and modi, I have a 5.1 setup right now and latter on I'll get 2 more speakers, but, would getting the Valhalla be good for what I'm after? (I do like surround sound tho) 





davidflas said:


> I'd be happy to give you my opinion, but first I need to know more about what you're hoping the addition of the Valhalla2 to your existing system will do for its sound. In other words, what is that you're not currently happy with?


----------



## davidflas

bretemm said:


> Well, I have a marantz sr5009 also I have the magni and modi I'm using with my Apple TV and it's great with the more of a open space sound it has with my klipsch earbuds (I can't use headphones because of a medical thing I have and magnets) so with the Valhalla I'd like a more open sound like my magni and modi, I have a 5.1 setup right now and latter on I'll get 2 more speakers, but, would getting the Valhalla be good for what I'm after? (I do like surround sound tho)


 

 Let me make sure I understand that you're looking for, you have a Modi and Magni that you use with an Apple TV, and you like the way they improve it is sound, so you'd like to connect a Valhalla2 to your Marantz to enhance its sound in a similar way? Keep in mind that all current Schiit products will only give you two discrete channels, left and right. Your Marantz probably has a mode that allows it to send this signal to all speakers, such as "all channel stereo", but you're still only hearing 2 distinct channels.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so then with just 2 channels, would it make a big enough difference to get? 





davidflas said:


> Let me make sure I understand that you're looking for, you have a Modi and Magni that you use with an Apple TV, and you like the way they improve it is sound, so you'd like to connect a Valhalla2 to your Marantz to enhance its sound in a similar way? Keep in mind that all current Schiit products will only give you two discrete channels, left and right. Your Marantz probably has a mode that allows it to send this signal to all speakers, such as "all channel stereo", but you're still only hearing 2 distinct channels.


----------



## bretemm

Or, In your opinion, would the Bifrost be better to get? Thanks! 





davidflas said:


> Let me make sure I understand that you're looking for, you have a Modi and Magni that you use with an Apple TV, and you like the way they improve it is sound, so you'd like to connect a Valhalla2 to your Marantz to enhance its sound in a similar way? Keep in mind that all current Schiit products will only give you two discrete channels, left and right. Your Marantz probably has a mode that allows it to send this signal to all speakers, such as "all channel stereo", but you're still only hearing 2 distinct channels.


----------



## David Aldrich

I have a Bifrost Über USB, a Lyr 2 and a Fulla coming tomorrow and it's not even for me


----------



## alancronin

Just received my Valhalla 2 and Modi 2 Uber, they sound great paired with my Grado SR325e. It's fantastic hearing my music in an entirely new way. Although I have a feeling this will be start of my wallet becoming completely empty.


----------



## dabtpa

hodgjy said:


> Class A amps run hot.  No real need to fear the heat.  Plus, Schiit gives you a 5 year warranty.  Use your amp without fear or reserve.  If it craps out, you're covered.  Plus, there's no way Jason and Mike would engineer something and then give it a 5 year warranty if it couldn't handle it.  They'd lose their arse if that were the case.


 
 I went to Home Depot and got 2 black #18 rubber grommets from the plumbing department. Stretched them over the volume knob on my Asgard 2 and it look as if they were made to go on the amp. Volume knob is now cold and easirer to grip and turn. The black laso dresses up the mostly all aluminum front of the amp. Give it a try. You have nothing to loose if you save the receipt.


----------



## ThurstonX

dabtpa said:


> I went to Home Depot and got 2 black #18 rubber grommets from the plumbing department. Stretched them over the volume knob on my Asgard 2 and it look as if they were made to go on the amp. Volume knob is now cold and easirer to grip and turn. The black laso dresses up the mostly all aluminum front of the amp. Give it a try. You have nothing to loose if you save the receipt.


 
  
 Interesting.  Would you mind posting a photo?


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Interesting.  Would you mind posting a photo?


 
 Why don't you send Rangy down to Home Despot to pick one up?


----------



## MWSVette

stand said:


> Why don't you send Rangy down to Home Despot to pick one up?


 

 Does he drive too.....


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> Does he drive too.....


 
 Drive? Thurston drives, Rangy flies a chopper.


----------



## davidflas

bretemm said:


> Or, In your opinion, would the Bifrost be better to get? Thanks!


 

 The Valhalla will most likely give you better sound than connecting your headphones to the jack on the Marantz, but using the Bifrost with it gets a bit more complicated. Any source connected to HDMI, Optical in, or coaxial digital will send its signal through the DAC built into the Marantz, the issue is the due to copyright reasons, modern receivers will only output analog signals. The Bifrost will only accept digital signals. You could connect a digital source to the Bifrost then connect the Bifrost to an analog input on the Marantz, but the Marantz might convert those inputs to digital and then pass them through its DAC, negating any gains from using the Bifrost. I don't know if that's true in this case, but it may well be. Modern AV receivers are very complicated things. I have one in my HT system, and love it, but don't consider it to be high fidelity in the way that I think of Schiit products. If I was you, I'd use the Vallaha2/Bifrost combo as a stand alone headphone listening set up, or maybe buy a nice speaker amp to pair with them. In other words for using with the Marantz, I'd just go with the Valhalla2. I would only get the Bifrost if you wanted to use it in a separate system.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 





davidflas said:


> The Valhalla will most likely give you better sound than connecting your headphones to the jack on the Marantz, but using the Bifrost with it gets a bit more complicated. Any source connected to HDMI, Optical in, or coaxial digital will send its signal through the DAC built into the Marantz, the issue is the due to copyright reasons, modern receivers will only output analog signals. The Bifrost will only accept digital signals. You could connect a digital source to the Bifrost then connect the Bifrost to an analog input on the Marantz, but the Marantz might convert those inputs to digital and then pass them through its DAC, negating any gains from using the Bifrost. I don't know if that's true in this case, but it may well be. Modern AV receivers are very complicated things. I have one in my HT system, and love it, but don't consider it to be high fidelity in the way that I think of Schiit products. If I was you, I'd use the Vallaha2/Bifrost combo as a stand alone headphone listening set up, or maybe buy a nice speaker amp to pair with them. In other words for using with the Marantz, I'd just go with the Valhalla2. I would only get the Bifrost if you wanted to use it in a separate system.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Been using the Magni 2 with my ad900x and it sounds superb.


----------



## bretemm

I'm planning on getting the "X-FI HD" Does anyone use it? 
I'm planning on using it with my Marantz so I can finally have a optical audio out to my Schiit with a signal it can decode.


----------



## davidflas

bretemm said:


> I'm planning on getting the "X-FI HD" Does anyone use it?
> I'm planning on using it with my Marantz so I can finally have a optical audio out to my Schiit with a signal it can decode.




Care to expand on how you plan to connect it to your Marantz and Schiit components?


----------



## Pirakaphile

Oh no. Look at all those reviews of the Yggdrasil. I can't stop reading them and now I want to spend $2300 on a DAC. I mean, a 5 year wait to save up for the purchase wouldn't kill me, would it? Well Schiit.


----------



## RickB

pirakaphile said:


> Oh no. Look at all those reviews of the Yggdrasil. I can't stop reading them and now I want to spend $2300 on a DAC. I mean, a 5 year wait to save up for the purchase wouldn't kill me, would it? Well Schiit.


 
  
 You can only save $38.34 a month? Murphy's law would kick in and some emergency/other need would claim the money in 5 years.


----------



## StanD

pirakaphile said:


> Oh no. Look at all those reviews of the Yggdrasil. I can't stop reading them and now I want to spend $2300 on a DAC. I mean, a 5 year wait to save up for the purchase wouldn't kill me, would it? Well Schiit.


 
 You could get a Modi 2 Uber and use a Label Maker to upgrade it to a Yggdrasil.


----------



## RickB

stand said:


> You could get a Modi 2 Uber and use a Label Maker to upgrade it to a Yggdrasil.


 
  
 He would also have to look at the "Yggy" through a magnifying glass.


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> You could get a Modi 2 Uber and use a Label Maker to upgrade it to a Yggdrasil.


 
  
  


rickb said:


> He would also have to look at the "Yggy" through a magnifying glass.


 
 Mini-Yggy.


----------



## jaywillin

itty,bitty, Yggy


----------



## StanD

Despite being small, the Modi 2 Uber is big on value and sound.


----------



## jaywillin

stand said:


> Despite being small, the Modi 2 Uber is big on value and sound.


 
 i agree completely, i love mine


----------



## StanD

jaywillin said:


> i agree completely, i love mine


 
 I have both the Modi 2 Uber and a Bifrost Uber USB2. The SQ differences are small if not even audible under normal listening conditions. I've A/B compared them both connected to an Asgard 2 using both HD600's and HE-500's.


----------



## blitzxgene

mini + Yggy = Mggy? Mggdrasil?


----------



## Mr Rick

blitzxgene said:


> mini + Yggy = Mggy? Mggdrasil?


 
  
 Modi +Yggy = "Moogie".  LOL


----------



## dorino

Thinking of getting Modi 2 Uber/Magni 2 Uber, and hopefully upgrading from a very old Mad Dog to Alpha Dogs.
  
 Never thought I'd own Schiit products. Dunno why exactly I reconsidered. It's still a dumb name, but I've heard so many good things.
  
 Might be part of the club soon. We'll see.


----------



## hodgjy

dorino said:


> Thinking of getting Modi 2 Uber/Magni 2 Uber, and hopefully upgrading from a very old Mad Dog to Alpha Dogs.
> 
> Never thought I'd own Schiit products. Dunno why exactly I reconsidered. It's still a dumb name, but I've heard so many good things.
> 
> Might be part of the club soon. We'll see.


 
 Schiit makes good stuff. I think their DACs are better than their amps, but their amps are no slouches, either.


----------



## ozz

Maybe its my age and hearing but I like the sound from their amps and its still one of the best bang for the buck amps out there.( Asgard 2)


----------



## dorino

hodgjy said:


> Schiit makes good stuff. I think their DACs are better than their amps, but their amps are no slouches, either.


 

 Right now I'm using an O2 and an HRT MS2. So, I'm already running okay stuff (at the price, I mean). It's not really much of an upgrade, but I'd like something new and the aesthetics are pleasing. I hope to make most of anything I spend back selling my old amp/DAC, but maybe I won't. I don't know yet. I've heard a lot of things about the "schiit stack", though, and I know it'll be enough for the Alpha Dogs (obviously not ideal, but I'm not going to spend 500 dollars on an amp or a DAC alone right now). I hope Dan gets back to me, or someone does, regarding exact details of the upgrade process. The old Mad Dogs are in rough shape, so I want to be sure about the cost and end result before I send them in. I also need to get the money together, but that's not a huge challenge _right now_, though it usually is. It might be, now, too, but I don't know.


----------



## Larryp12

ozz said:


> Maybe its my age and hearing but I like the sound from their amps and its still one of the best bang for the buck amps out there.( Asgard 2)


 

 I agree. I have the Magni and have not yet heard an amp under $300 that made me want to upgrade. My Lyr 2 with Gold Lion tubes sounds like it was designed for my  HD650s. Maybe I need to listen to more amps in the $1,000+ range because the 3 - 4 that I've listened to < $1,000 underwhelmed me.


----------



## Pirakaphile

stand said:


> You could get a Modi 2 Uber and use a Label Maker to upgrade it to a Yggdrasil.



Maybe that'll make me feel better about the money.


----------



## Pirakaphile

rickb said:


> You can only save $38.34 a month? Murphy's law would kick in and some emergency/other need would claim the money in 5 years.



Sadly, with my luck, I'm counting on it.


----------



## dorino

larryp12 said:


> I agree. I have the Magni and have not yet heard an amp under $300 that made me want to upgrade. My Lyr 2 with Gold Lion tubes sounds like it was designed for my  HD650s. Maybe I need to listen to more amps in the $1,000+ range because the 3 - 4 that I've listened to < $1,000 underwhelmed me.


 

 I have very similar feelings about the O2 - at its price, very little touches it and above its price little does enough to justify itself. It also isn't pretty to look at - I can afford to get something new and the Schiit stack _is_ pretty. Plus, I like the preamp functions of the Magni 2 Uber. Most of what I've heard says the O2 is comparable. The HRT MS2? I don't know how it'll compare to the Modi 2 Uber, but I imagine they're similar given the price point. An MS2 and an O2 look terrible stacked, though (you need rubber bands! The horror!) and you need custom interconnects, too, because of the weird way you have to position them. Or, like me, you have a cable that's much too long.
  
 I have a hard time justifying spending more than 300 dollars on an amp/DAC set up when they're only going to be used with a 600 dollar pair of headphones, but I'm cheap. I think I'd struggle to do better than what Schiit's doing right now.
  
 Though, the name is still dumb. It's not clever.


----------



## RickB

pirakaphile said:


> Sadly, with my luck, I'm counting on it.


 
  
 Would probably happen to anybody.


----------



## Pirakaphile

Well my Yggy just got here not too long ago! I can't tell a big difference yet but once it gets warm I'm sure it'll sound amazing! Schiit really compacted this thing, I'm surprised it doesn't dwarf the Magni! 
Impressions to follow soon.


----------



## Mr Rick

^^^Cute^^^


----------



## jaywillin

pirakaphile said:


> Well my Yggy just got here not too long ago! I can't tell a big difference yet but once it gets warm I'm sure it'll sound amazing! Schiit really compacted this thing, I'm surprised it doesn't dwarf the Magni!
> Impressions to follow soon.


 
  
 perception is .9999% of reality !  i might need to trade in my M&M  for a ragny and yggy


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone use IEMs with Schiit? What brand/type are best? Thank you, I have the magni and modi and might get the valhala latter.


----------



## KLJTech

I use my Westone W40's every day (in my office) with the Gungnir Gen2 USB and Asgard 2, sounds incredible. The low gain helps the amp work fantastic with IEM's and some easier to drive on-ear cans...with my planar headphones I switch it to high gain. I'm sure you'll enjoy the gear you've mentioned.


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, (I have the klipsch s3 right now) I'm planning on getting the klipsch x7i or x11i soon, Ive been stuck on looking at shure but, I'm not sure if there good with rock and classic rock, I'm mainly focused on the se846 but at $1k that's allot right now 





kljtech said:


> I use my Westone W40's every day (in my office) with the Gungnir Gen2 USB and Asgard 2, sounds incredible. The low gain helps the amp work fantastic with IEM's and some easier to drive on-ear cans...with my planar headphones I switch it to high gain. I'm sure you'll enjoy the gear you've mentioned.


----------



## KLJTech

I've used the Klipsch X10's with the same setup and it works great with those as well...I think you'll be very pleased.


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, so I'm pretty sure I'll get the x7i but then there's the X11i, is there a big difference? The x7i I found is $200 vs the x11i is $350 





kljtech said:


> I've used the Klipsch X10's with the same setup and it works great with those as well...I think you'll be very pleased.


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> Ok great, so I'm pretty sure I'll get the x7i but then there's the X11i, is there a big difference? The x7i I found is $200 vs the x11i is $350


 
  
 Sorry, I haven't heard either of them but I think that Jude wrote something positive about the X7i's in one of his Buying Guides. $350 sounds steep to me for a single armature driver IEM...but like I said, I haven't heard them. Good luck! You'll love the Schiit gear.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I watched a review and Ill be going with the x7i, I've also looked at rha and I'm kinda stuck on that I like being able to change the filters, but I'm not sure how often that would be. After Im happy with the iem I'll get, I think I'll get the Valhalla 





kljtech said:


> Sorry, I haven't heard either of them but I think that Jude wrote something positive about the X7i's in one of his Buying Guides. $350 sounds steep to me for a single armature driver IEM...but like I said, I haven't heard them. Good luck! You'll love the Schiit gear.


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone use "Shure" with their Schiit? How are they with classic and indie rock? I keep seeing reviews saying the bass is heavy?


----------



## imahawki

I have a pair of x11i and really like them*.  I haven't amped them much (usually go direct out of iPhone 6+ or MacBook Air) but I can plug them into my Bifrost fed Lyr 2 and give you some impressions.  I don't have a ton of IEM experience but to me where Klipsch earns their money is comfort.  I had a pair of Shures (entry level SE215 equivilent but like 12 years ago) that I quit using because of comfort issues and ultimately threw away after not using for 5-6 years.  Same with a pair of Etymotics.  I tried again just recently and bought a pair of Westone UM10s and I'm going to list them for sale already.  I don't find them comfortable.
  
 *I also have a pair of Klipsch S4i II that provide the same level of comfort but the sonics are significantly lower end.  Very bloated, uncontrolled bass and less overall clarity and detail.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

raybone0566 said:


> Anyone do any comparisons between the lyr2 and any of the violectric amps. Looking to pull the trigger on one of those. I know lyr is tube & the hpa series is solid state.




I know this is very late, but I have the Lyr and the Gustard H10, which is a V200 clone in some senses and which arguably surpasses the V200, according to some friends whom I trust. 

I dont have time to detail the differences between them right now, but both are wonderful with all of my headphones. Obviously tube rolling is a perk for the Lyr, but there is something very special about the H10's ability to resolve details to a remarkable degree, to offered a layered sound, and to have a slightly warm and non-fatiguing presentation. Of the two, the Lyr is more "neutral", even with new tubes. I am in love with both amps to be frank. I would say save money and go for the H10 if you are after the Vioelectric sound.

 Also, both the Lyr and the H10 excel with planars while still being able to drive admirably anything from AKGs to high Z Senns/Beyers.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I'm looking at the x11i but I think the x7i is what I'll get, I don't really want to spend $350 right now. I have the s3 right now that I've been using for acouple years, is there a big diffrence? Thank you 





imahawki said:


> I have a pair of x11i and really like them*.  I haven't amped them much (usually go direct out of iPhone 6+ or MacBook Air) but I can plug them into my Bifrost fed Lyr 2 and give you some impressions.  I don't have a ton of IEM experience but to me where Klipsch earns their money is comfort.  I had a pair of Shures (entry level SE215 equivilent but like 12 years ago) that I quit using because of comfort issues and ultimately threw away after not using for 5-6 years.  Same with a pair of Etymotics.  I tried again just recently and bought a pair of Westone UM10s and I'm going to list them for sale already.  I don't find them comfortable.
> 
> *I also have a pair of Klipsch S4i II that provide the same level of comfort but the sonics are significantly lower end.  Very bloated, uncontrolled bass and less overall clarity and detail.


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> Ok, I'm looking at the x11i but I think the x7i is what I'll get, I don't really want to spend $350 right now. I have the s3 right now that I've been using for acouple years, is there a big diffrence? Thank you


 
  
 I think you'll find a the X7i or X11i's to be a big step up in sound quality from the S3. I have a pair of the S3's that I use at times for audiobooks and the X10 is a huge step up from those. If you stay with Klipsch I think you can't go too far wrong with the X7i's. Good luck!


----------



## jaywillin

liu junyuan said:


> I know this is very late, but I have the Lyr and the Gustard H10, which is a V200 clone in some senses and which arguably surpasses the V200, according to some friends whom I trust.
> 
> I dont have time to detail the differences between them right now, but both are wonderful with all of my headphones. Obviously tube rolling is a perk for the Lyr, but there is something very special about the H10's ability to resolve details to a remarkable degree, to offered a layered sound, and to have a slightly warm and non-fatiguing presentation. Of the two, the Lyr is more "neutral", even with new tubes. I am in love with both amps to be frank. I would say save money and go for the H10 if you are after the Vioelectric sound.
> 
> Also, both the Lyr and the H10 excel with planars while still being able to drive admirably anything from AKGs to high Z Senns/Beyers.


 
 thanks for the comparison, i've owned a couple of lyrs, and love it
 i'd recently been trying to downsize, headphones and electronics until some unforeseen good fortune has me 
 in possession of a pair of ps1000's i'd previously sold.
 so now, i'm looking for a little more power than my magni2, and i was considering another lyr, and the gustard
 a friend of mine has an h10, and raves about it, so i've been considering it as well
 thanks for your thoughts, very helpful !


----------



## ThurstonX

liu junyuan said:


>


 
  
 Hey!  I know that cable going from HE-500s to H10!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Glad to see it's still serving you well.  Nice Stack O' Schiit, but doesn't the heat transfer from Lyr to stand to cans?


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 





kljtech said:


> I think you'll find a the X7i or X11i's to be a big step up in sound quality from the S3. I have a pair of the S3's that I use at times for audiobooks and the X10 is a huge step up from those. If you stay with Klipsch I think you can't go too far wrong with the X7i's. Good luck!


----------



## imahawki

bretemm said:


> Ok, I'm looking at the x11i but I think the x7i is what I'll get, I don't really want to spend $350 right now. I have the s3 right now that I've been using for acouple years, is there a big diffrence? Thank you


 
  
 Is there a reason you can't buy these for $200?  http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Image-KLIMXJI111-Japan-Import/dp/B00ESBMOQ0?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ&tag=camelbrowser-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00ESBMOQ0


----------



## bretemm

I don't know, why are they that low? 





imahawki said:


> Is there a reason you can't buy these for $200?  http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Image-KLIMXJI111-Japan-Import/dp/B00ESBMOQ0?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ&tag=camelbrowser-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00ESBMOQ0


----------



## KLJTech

Hell, they've got the X10's for $100 (that's a pretty nice deal). http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000WAHFBK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430503820&sr=8-2&keywords=Klipsch+Image+X11i
  
 The armature driver X5's (these sound sweet for a single driver) for $89: http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Image-X5-Noise-Isolating-Earphones/dp/B001D7709I/ref=pd_sim_e_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1E1NXHV82DSB4JF1F1R3
  
 Just make sure that you try them with a Schiit amp! I use the Asgard 2 with my IEM's every day.


----------



## imahawki

I paid $228 for mine in February 2014.  They weren't import like that, they were just through a 3rd party Amazon seller.  Maybe just shop around a bit more before finalizing your purchase.  I've not heard the x7i but the x11i is sweet just from an engineering perspective.  I believe the enclosures are titanium vs. ceramic for the 7s.  And they 11s weigh nearly half the 7s.


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, I have the magni and modi and schiit has really added space and quality, I've been thinking about getting the Valhalla, but I'm limited to using only IEM's 





kljtech said:


> Hell, they've got the X10's for $100 (that's a pretty nice deal). http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Noise-Isolating-Earphone-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000WAHFBK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430503820&sr=8-2&keywords=Klipsch+Image+X11i
> 
> The armature driver X5's (these sound sweet for a single driver) for $89: http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Image-X5-Noise-Isolating-Earphones/dp/B001D7709I/ref=pd_sim_e_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1E1NXHV82DSB4JF1F1R3
> 
> Just make sure that you try them with a Schiit amp! I use the Asgard 2 with my IEM's every day.


----------



## Liu Junyuan

thurstonx said:


> Hey!  I know that cable going from HE-500s to H10!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just now have time to respond more fully. Yes, I love this cable very much. It is so well built, flexible, and aesthetically understated. Moreover, the connectors to the awkward screws on each side of the headphone are so easy to attach. It also allows me to dance with them on, unlike that pesky stock cable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, I next need to work on my "Schiit stacking" skills. I do not find an issue with heat transfer to my cans, but I am more worried about interference across each piece of gear. So far, I have not noticed anything too serious, but it does occasionally bother me. I probably should replace the cheap rubber feet that came with the amp. Do you have any suggestions? Your stand for your Bifrost and Lyr is nice because it separates each component, guaranteeing the absence of any pesky interference across dac and amp. Maybe I need a shelf?


----------



## MWSVette

liu junyuan said:


> I just now have time to respond more fully. Yes, I love this cable very much. It is so well built, flexible, and aesthetically understated. Moreover, the connectors to the awkward screws on each side of the headphone are so easy to attach. It also allows me to dance with them on, unlike that pesky stock cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I used these rubber feet for my stack.  They are a little taller than the ones from Schiit.
  
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1430548510&sr=8-3&keywords=3m+rubber+feet


----------



## Liu Junyuan

mwsvette said:


> I used these rubber feet for my stack.  They are a little taller than the ones from Schiit.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1430548510&sr=8-3&keywords=3m+rubber+feet




Thanks for this. My dad used to work for 3M. Good company. 

Do you recommend a certain shape? I am thinking cone to minimize contact.


----------



## MWSVette

liu junyuan said:


> Thanks for this. My dad used to work for 3M. Good company.
> 
> Do you recommend a certain shape? I am thinking cone to minimize contact.


 

 I bought the square ones thinking they would provide better isolation of vibrations. But I think its just personal preference. They also make round ones similar to the stock ones from Schiit only larger.


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> I used these rubber feet for my stack.  They are a little taller than the ones from Schiit.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1430548510&sr=8-3&keywords=3m+rubber+feet


 
 +1 I use the same ones. Not those tiny little cheap Schitty rubber dots.


----------



## ThurstonX

liu junyuan said:


> I just now have time to respond more fully. Yes, I love this cable very much. It is so well built, flexible, and aesthetically understated. Moreover, the connectors to the awkward screws on each side of the headphone are so easy to attach. It also allows me to dance with them on, unlike that pesky stock cable
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 When I had the Lyr stacked on the Bifrost I used a 2-layer approach to get a bit more clearance.  I've posted photos here and there where you can see the two types of "feet" I used.  I figured the "foam" type discs would help with shock absorption, though that's rarely an issue, and the clear rubber feet stuck to the discs are quite tall compared to the stock feet.  I'm pretty sure I bought both in Target.  Nothing fancy.  I left them on, even though the stand negates the need.
  
 I built the shelf because I was adding the SYS and Wyrd, and didn't want them off to the side.  A tall stack suits my available space much better.  I had leftover wood and stain from a pair of PC speaker risers I built to get said speakers at a better height for listening.  I wasn't nearly as picky and precise as I could have been, but I'm happy with the result.  Of course, I've got a garage full of stuff with which to mess around.  I don't know if you could find some pre-fab thing with the exact dimensions you want or need.  Another plus for DIY.  Just remember to measure three times and cut once.  Fortunately, I only failed to do that once


----------



## inseconds99

Trying to decide on an Amp for my HD800 and HD700, tossed up between some Schiit amps:
  
 Magni 2 Uber
 Vali
 Asgard 2
 Valhalla 2
  
 I am looking for something mostly transparent but with a touch of warmth. Anyone here have an experience with any of these amps with these 2 headphones?


----------



## Eee Pee

Vali is fine.


----------



## hodgjy

inseconds99 said:


> Trying to decide on an Amp for my HD800 and HD700, tossed up between some Schiit amps:
> 
> Magni 2 Uber
> Vali
> ...


 
 My Asgard 2 leans to the bright side.


----------



## inseconds99

I'm also leaning towards an M-stage HPA-2 as I have heard it is a great headphone with the hd800's, it's a solid state amp and it adds a little warmth.


----------



## cuiter23

hodgjy said:


> My Asgard 2 leans to the bright side.


 
  
 +1, I think a warmer amp will suit the HD700 and HD800 better (Either the Vali or the Valhalla 2) . I tend to prefer the leaner sounding amp (Asgard 2) for warm headphones like my HD650 but that's just my own preference.


----------



## StefanJK

A simple USB Driver on Win 7 installation question...
  
 Got my Yggy today, after FedEx drove it around the neighborhood since Friday, unable to drop it at a FedEx location for me to pick it up after work.  Very impressed with it even cold...but how do I deal with the USB driver install error I have?  The Windows driver for Yggy won't install.  I get the 'the system has not been modified. To install this program at a later time, run the installation again' error at the end of running the installer.  I did initially try to uninstall the Gungnir driver in the Control Panel and got an error doing that.  I did, I think, eventually uninstall the old driver by running the Yggy driver installer, but I needed two tries.  I've had several attempts to install the Yggy drivers.  I restored Windows a week back, still no luck.  I had Wyrd in the chain initially, then took it out.  Still no success.  Now I can't install the Gungnir driver either.  
  
 I'm listening via optical right now...but I want to be able to try the USB input too.  
  
 I want to stay away from radical solutions like reinstalling the OS (Win 7 Pro 64 bit) since this is my main computer.  I should eventually end up with a dedicated music server, but I'm not financially there right now.  And I should be able to beat a silly Win 7 driver install problem.  I did contact Schiit, not that I want to waste their time on this.  Glad to move this question elsewhere.  
  
 Hopefully I'll have something less banal in a few days.  Already sounds good.   
  
 Update: sorry if I was unclear, I did contact Schiit.  I also believe I uninstalled the Gen 2 driver, but that uninstall may not have been clean or complete...how would I fix that?


----------



## Guidostrunk

Tubes are pretty critical with the 700's as well. Definitely agree with you , on throwing something warmer at them. 


cuiter23 said:


> +1, I think a warmer amp will suit the HD700 and HD800 better (Either the Vali or the Valhalla 2) . I tend to prefer the leaner sounding amp (Asgard 2) for warm headphones like my HD650 but that's just my own preference.


----------



## dorino

stefanjk said:


> A simple USB Driver on Win 7 installation question...
> 
> Got my Yggy today, after FedEx drove it around the neighborhood since Friday, unable to drop it at a FedEx location for me to pick it up after work.  Very impressed with it even cold...but how do I deal with the USB driver install error I have?  The Windows driver for Yggy won't install.  I get the 'the system has not been modified. To install this program at a later time, run the installation again' error at the end of running the installer.  I did initially try to uninstall the Gungnir driver in the Control Panel and got an error doing that.  I did, I think, eventually uninstall the old driver by running the Yggy driver installer, but I needed two tries.  I've had several attempts to install the Yggy drivers.  I restored Windows a week back, still no luck.  I had Wyrd in the chain initially, then took it out.  Still no success.  Now I can't install the Gungnir driver either.
> 
> ...


 
 Wait for a reply from Schiit? I hear they're very good at answering questions... And very aware that their drivers are problematic.
  
 Windows is pretty messy with Schiit products (and it's probably all Microsoft's fault, but this is just speculation).


----------



## hodgjy

stefanjk said:


> A simple USB Driver on Win 7 installation question...
> 
> Got my Yggy today, after FedEx drove it around the neighborhood since Friday, unable to drop it at a FedEx location for me to pick it up after work.  Very impressed with it even cold...but how do I deal with the USB driver install error I have?  The Windows driver for Yggy won't install.  I get the 'the system has not been modified. To install this program at a later time, run the installation again' error at the end of running the installer.  I did initially try to uninstall the Gungnir driver in the Control Panel and got an error doing that.  I did, I think, eventually uninstall the old driver by running the Yggy driver installer, but I needed two tries.  I've had several attempts to install the Yggy drivers.  I restored Windows a week back, still no luck.  I had Wyrd in the chain initially, then took it out.  Still no success.  Now I can't install the Gungnir driver either.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you have Gen 2 drivers installed? If so, uninstall first before installing Gen 3.


----------



## bearFNF

stefanjk said:


> A simple USB Driver on Win 7 installation question...
> 
> Got my Yggy today, after FedEx drove it around the neighborhood since Friday, unable to drop it at a FedEx location for me to pick it up after work.  Very impressed with it even cold...but how do I deal with the USB driver install error I have?  The Windows driver for Yggy won't install.  I get the 'the system has not been modified. To install this program at a later time, run the installation again' error at the end of running the installer.  I did initially try to uninstall the Gungnir driver in the Control Panel and got an error doing that.  I did, I think, eventually uninstall the old driver by running the Yggy driver installer, but I needed two tries.  I've had several attempts to install the Yggy drivers.  I restored Windows a week back, still no luck.  I had Wyrd in the chain initially, then took it out.  Still no success.  Now I can't install the Gungnir driver either.
> 
> ...


 

 I had to make sure the old drivers were zapped out of the device manager. It also took a reboot to get the new one in.
 Do a Google search for "remove old usb drivers win 7" there are a few tricks you will find that may help. like adding an environment variable to see all the "nonpresent devices" in device manager.
 I wont link any as this can get dicey if you don't pay attention.
  
 Not saying you will have to, but there have been times in the past that I also needed to remove all the USB devices including the hubs and re-install all the drivers. I did not have to do quite that much this time.


----------



## StefanJK

bearfnf said:


> I had to make sure the old drivers were zapped out of the device manager. It also took a reboot to get the new one in.
> Do a Google search for "remove old usb drivers win 7" there are a few tricks you will find that may help. like adding an environment variable to see all the "nonpresent devices" in device manager.
> I wont link any as this can get dicey if you don't pay attention.
> 
> Not saying you will have to, but there have been times in the past that I also needed to remove all the USB devices including the hubs and re-install all the drivers. I did not have to do quite that much this time.


 
 Thanks...that's less radical than steps I've been thinking of.  I'll sleep on it first though, I need to pay attention when I do this.


----------



## bearFNF

stefanjk said:


> bearfnf said:
> 
> 
> > I had to make sure the old drivers were zapped out of the device manager. It also took a reboot to get the new one in.
> ...


 

 you'd be surprised what will show up when you "show nonpresent devices". every dap and thumb drive you have used or printer for that matter leaves a hidden driver behind. Oh and another hint it might take a reboot for the environment variable to take affect.


----------



## dorino

Windows' driver management is so problematic.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

"problematic"
  
 god I hate that word.


----------



## dorino

blackenedplague said:


> "problematic"
> 
> god I hate that word.


 

 would you say that you find it... problematic?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

tumblr pls go.
  
  
Back on topic
  
does Schiit have any hybrid amps?


----------



## dorino

The Vali and Lyr (and Lyr 2) are hybrids.


----------



## tafens

blackenedplague said:


> does Schiit have any hybrid amps?




Yes, both Lyr2 and Vali are hybrids.
Valhalla2 is tube only, all others are pure solid state.


----------



## bretemm

With the valhala2, 
Has anyone used Astell and kern with it? 
(I'm looking at getting the ak100ii or ak120)

How does the tubes change/help the music? 

Thanks


----------



## BobFiggins

If I really like how the Vali sounds, would you guys say the Lyr 2 is an improvement, while keeping a similar tonality? Or do you see more benefit in going from the Modi 2 Uber to the Bifrost Uber and keeping the Vali?
  
 HD 800 arrives at the end of the month, so while I'm content with the Vali as I really like its sound, it doesn't hurt to look forward.


----------



## HPiper

bobfiggins said:


> If I really like how the Vali sounds, would you guys say the Lyr 2 is an improvement, while keeping a similar tonality? Or do you see more benefit in going from the Modi 2 Uber to the Bifrost Uber and keeping the Vali?
> 
> HD 800 arrives at the end of the month, so while I'm content with the Vali as I really like its sound, it doesn't hurt to look forward.


 
 That is a real hard question to answer, but the Lyr2 is going to sound better for sure. As with everything else though the improvement isn't going to be huge like 3 times better. Hate to say it but I'd say you either stick with the Vali and Modi or go the whole 9 yards and get the Bifrost Uber and Lyr2 together. The Lyr without the Bifrost or the other way around is going to be a situation where one is holding the other back from you being able to hear all the benefits.


----------



## StanD

hpiper said:


> That is a real hard question to answer, but the* Lyr2 is going to sound better for sure*. As with everything else though the improvement isn't going to be huge like 3 times better. Hate to say it but I'd say you either stick with the Vali and Modi or go the whole 9 yards and get the Bifrost Uber and Lyr2 together. The Lyr without the Bifrost or the other way around is going to be a situation where one is holding the other back from you being able to hear all the benefits.


 
 If one does not need the extra power, why should it sound better?


----------



## Netrum

stand said:


> If one does not need the extra power, why should it sound better?



Because it has a completely different layout and is built with different everything.


----------



## Dill

+1


----------



## StanD

netrum said:


> Because it has a completely different layout and is built with different everything.


 
 That's just a guess that does not guarantee to be any better.


----------



## Billheiser

stand said:


> That's just a guess that does not guarantee to be any better.


Not a guarantee, but an appropriate response to the question you posed. And it might well be better, since we know it is different circuit design, parts, etc. 
(Could be better/worse/same)


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> That's just a guess that does not guarantee to be any better.


 
  
  


billheiser said:


> Not a guarantee, but an appropriate response to the question you posed. And it might well be better, since we know it is different circuit design, parts, etc.
> (Could be better/worse/same)


 
 Or a difference too slight to tell. As it is most audio gear has a flat FR and distortion levels below human perception, but we do like to big deal out of it.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

[quote name="StanD" url="/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/10200#post_ 
Or a difference too slight to tell. As it is most audio gear has a flat FR and distortion levels below human perception, but we do like to big deal out of it.
[/quote]
As a scientist I get your point regarding measurements- but experience tells me there may be properties we are not measuring


----------



## tafens

exacoustatowner said:


> StanD said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




One such property could be, I think, the ability to keep that flat FR and imperceptible distortion going under the heavy and varying load that a headphone can be.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

tafens said:


> One such property could be, I think, the ability to keep that flat FR and imperceptible distortion going under the heavy and varying load that a headphone can be.



How is harsh treble measured? I can play the same music and source. One amp may sound shrill when the flutes and sopranos sound- one may not. Yet both amps are 20-20,000 Hz +0.5 db with 0.01 % THD and 100 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms, 200 at 4 ohms.
How do you measure the ability of one amp to recreate an almost holographic soundstage while a similarly rated amp does not?
Is it that one amp can handle an impedance spike and the other can't so it distorts the flute solo?
StanD?


----------



## StanD

StanD said:
			
		

> Or a difference too slight to tell. As it is most audio gear has a flat FR and distortion levels below human perception, but we do like to big deal out of it.


 
Originally Posted by *Exacoustatowner* 


As a scientist I get your point regarding measurements- but experience tells me there may be properties we are not measuring
  
 Perhaps you can identify them? Frankly this is not such a complicated thing as some of us make it out to be.


----------



## StanD

tafens said:


> One such property could be, I think, the ability to keep that flat FR and imperceptible distortion going under the heavy and varying load that a headphone can be.


 
 A Magnetic Planar is not a complex load, it is considered resisitive without a varying impedance curve. Even headphones with varying impedance curves are not a difficult load for an Amp with a low output impedance as their impedance goes higher not lower.


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> How is harsh treble measured? I can play the same music and source. One amp may sound shrill when the flutes and sopranos sound- one may not. Yet both amps are 20-20,000 Hz +0.5 db with 0.01 % THD and 100 Watts RMS at 8 Ohms, 200 at 4 ohms.
> How do you measure the ability of one amp to recreate an almost holographic soundstage while a similarly rated amp does not?
> Is it that one amp can handle an impedance spike and the other can't so it distorts the flute solo?
> StanD?


 
 100W RMS into a headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Schiit doesn't make such an amp.
 When it comes to loudspeakers they can demand more of an amp for the delivery of power, however, IMO that is overblown. There are many superb high efficiency speakers that do not require gobs of power. I believe it's the speakers and acoustics that make the big difference.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stand said:


> 100W RMS into a headphone :eek:  Schiit doesn't make such an amp.
> When it comes to loudspeakers they can demand more of an amp for the delivery of power, however, IMO that is overblown. There are many superb high efficiency speakers that do not require gobs of power. I believe it's the speakers and acoustics that make the big difference.




My Krell begs to differ, he wills speakers into submission⚡️!


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> My Krell begs to differ, he wills speakers into submission!


 
 I try not to personify electronic equipment.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> I try not to personify electronic equipment.


 
  
 And yet Schiit does that with pretty much every piece of gear


----------



## StanD

stand said:


> I try not to personify electronic equipment.


 
  
  


thurstonx said:


> And yet Schiit does that with pretty much every piece of gear


 
 Calling something Schiit does not personify it. That might might qualify as strange _taste,_ certainly not humanizing it.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stand said:


> I try not to personify electronic equipment.




That's because you have a tiny amp.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Calling something Schiit does not personify it. That might might qualify as strange _taste,_ certainly not humanizing it.


 
  
 Not the company name.... sheesh.  The *gear*, yo.  The gear.


----------



## StanD

wildcatsare1 said:


> That's because you have a tiny amp.


 
 Or you have too much hot air.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

stand said:


> Or you have too much hot air.




Entirely possible, you can un-clinch your sphincter now, Stan.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> 100W RMS into a headphone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 An example Stan! I am using an HP amp that puts out 6 watts/channel at 32 ohms-and that is more than enough for my HE-560-which are more of a resistive load btw. 
 I have a couple of very short test tracks on SACD that I use to compare. One of the MOST challenging is from Mahler Symphony # 8 SACD MTT.,In the 2nd and 3rd movements there are sections with massive choral, and multiple soprano's belting out at the same time the organ is hitting some high notes.
 On some amps that can sound almost painfully shrill. I compared some fairly pricey head amps and found different degrees of shrill and edgy overtones- and could hear the displeasing "edge" at different volumes-before you ask about volume matching. I went back to each amp several times-with a break in between. It's been months so I don't recall which amps as I bought none of them,


----------



## Exacoustatowner

thurstonx said:


> Not the company name.... sheesh.  The *gear*, yo.  The gear.


 
 Go Rangy!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

exacoustatowner said:


> An example Stan! I am using an HP amp that puts out 6 watts/channel at 32 ohms-and that is more than enough for my HE-560-which are more of a resistive load btw.
> I have a couple of very short test tracks on SACD that I use to compare. One of the MOST challenging is from Mahler Symphony # 8 SACD MTT.,In the 2nd and 3rd movements there are sections with massive choral, and multiple soprano's belting out at the same time the organ is hitting some high notes.
> On some amps that can sound almost painfully shrill. I compared some fairly pricey head amps and found different degrees of shrill and edgy overtones- and could hear the displeasing "edge" at different volumes-before you ask about volume matching. I went back to each amp several times-with a break in between. It's been months so I don't recall which amps as I bought none of them,




True This^^^ Similar results with my 560 hooked to my speaker amps.


----------



## Eee Pee

Stan and I have gone through this recently.  It's pointless to discuss it with him.  I said he's on a crusade to convince everyone he's right and that's that.  He is who is and we are who we are.  If he can't hear differences, then so be it.  If we can hear differences he can't, so be it.  Continually engaging in his troll (in my opinion) attempts is futile.


----------



## chuck8403

eee pee said:


> Stan and I have gone through this recently.  It's pointless to discuss it with him.  I said he's on a crusade to convince everyone he's right and that's that.  He is who is and we are who we are.  If he can't hear differences, then so be it.  If we can hear differences he can't, so be it.  Continually engaging in his troll (in my opinion) attempts is futile.


 

 I firmly believe that each person hears what they hear. You may think one amp in better or another headphone you have is better. Or even a combination is better than another. If someone looked at the amps I have, they might think I am nuts. (That may be true!) I like other opinions and they may move me to purchase a piece of equipment. But like others have said, your mileage will vary!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

eee pee said:


> Stan and I have gone through this recently.  It's pointless to discuss it with him.  I said he's on a crusade to convince everyone he's right and that's that.  He is who is and we are who we are.  If he can't hear differences, then so be it.  If we can hear differences he can't, so be it.  Continually engaging in his troll (in my opinion) attempts is futile.


 
 I don't mind that he can't hear differences. I wish I could not-it would be cheaper! The least expensive amp that has a +- 1 db frequency response from 20-15, 000 hz is all I would want.
  
 My oldest friend converted everything to mp3 awhile back-he uses lamp cord for speaker wire and scoffs at anything above "mid-fi" as a joke.
 The thing is-if you stick to "mid-fi" the differences with better components are insignificant. I would not hear "edge" or "grain" on treble.
 I don't hear it with my mid-fi car audio listening to FM radio.
 Certainly differences between DAC's and amps would be inaudible.


----------



## Rem0o

exacoustatowner said:


> I don't mind that he can't hear differences. I wish I could not-it would be cheaper! The least expensive amp that has a +- 1 db frequency response from 20-15, 000 hz is all I would want.
> 
> My oldest friend converted everything to mp3 awhile back-he uses lamp cord for speaker wire and scoffs at anything above "mid-fi" as a joke.
> The thing is-if you stick to "mid-fi" the differences with better components are insignificant. I would not hear "edge" or "grain" on treble.
> ...


 
 I think Stan has a point and so do you. 

 How I see it:

 1) Stan is tired of people associating sound benefits with power ratings.

 2) You are tried of people telling you you shouldn't hear a difference between two amps with flat freq response and inaudible level of distorsion.

 Both points are valid. The first point tells me that a single measurement method (power) doesn't correlate with everything we hear out of an amplifier The second point tells me that a limited amount of measurement methods available right now (FR, THD...)  are not enough to correlate with everything we hear out of an amplifier.
  
 You both are saying the same thing from a different perspective.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

rem0o said:


> I think Stan has a point and so do you.
> 
> 
> How I see it:
> ...



You got it!


----------



## bretemm

I think I'm going to get the Valhalla2 soon along with the SYS, I have the magi and modi and want tube sound (I mainly listen to indie rock and classic rock) does that sound like a good setup? I might get a audio jack to rca cable so I can hook up my marantz to it "mainly for radio" would that work?
Thanks


----------



## David Aldrich

bretemm said:


> I think I'm going to get the Valhalla2 soon along with the SYS, I have the magi and modi and want tube sound (I mainly listen to indie rock and classic rock) does that sound like a good setup? I might get a audio jack to rca cable so I can hook up my marantz to it "mainly for radio" would that work?
> Thanks


 

 Which headphones are you driving? Valhalla 2 is going to be best with 300-600Ω headphones if you have them.
  
 If your Marantz has a line output in the form of RCA's that would be the best way to connect to a separate amplifier.


----------



## bretemm

Well, I'm limited to IEM because I can't get by strong magnets, I heard the tubes help with finer detail and brings out guitar and vocals more. 





david aldrich said:


> Which headphones are you driving? Valhalla 2 is going to be best with 300-600Ω headphones if you have them.
> 
> If your Marantz has a line output in the form of RCA's that would be the best way to connect to a separate amplifier.


----------



## loki993

Im looking for a nice SS amp with some power for anything from 60 ohm up to 600 ohm Beyers at some point so basically a do all amp. If money were no object id probably say the LYR2 because I just cant imagine anything every needing more power than that can provide, I know its tube but its a hybrid, also its got power. 

Probably more reasonable in my price range is the Asgard 2 and the Magni 2 uber. These 2 puzzle me...the Mangi is really powerful for its size and price....it seems like nearly nothing in its range even comes close. Compared to the Asgard the Magni puts more power, on paper, into lower impedance headphones and really isnt that far off with the high impedance ones either...I think at 300 ohms the difference is 60mw....Honestly though I don't know how significant that is. 

So I guess the real question is aside from the fact that its bigger and can double as a space heater...why would I want an Asgard over the magni? Its an honest question im not being factious either, Im struggling to find a reason but if there is one I have no problem getting the Asgard. Basically I want an amp that shouldnt have a problem powering anything id every throw at it from 600 ohm beyers the orthos and anything in between, without getting too crazy I cant every see myself spending 1k+ on headphones or anything like that. I need to most future proof amp I can get.


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> Im looking for a nice SS amp with some power for anything from 60 ohm up to 600 ohm Beyers at some point so basically a do all amp. If money were no object id probably say the LYR2 because I just cant imagine anything every needing more power than that can provide, I know its tube but its a hybrid, also its got power.
> 
> Probably more reasonable in my price range is the Asgard 2 and the Magni 2 uber. These 2 puzzle me...the Mangi is really powerful for its size and price....it seems like nearly nothing in its range even comes close. Compared to the Asgard the Magni puts more power, on paper, into lower impedance headphones and really isnt that far off with the high impedance ones either...I think at 300 ohms the difference is 60mw....Honestly though I don't know how significant that is.
> 
> So I guess the real question is aside from the fact that its bigger and can double as a space heater...why would I want an Asgard over the magni? Its an honest question im not being factious either, Im struggling to find a reason but if there is one I have no problem getting the Asgard. Basically I want an amp that shouldnt have a problem powering anything id every throw at it from 600 ohm beyers the orthos and anything in between, without getting too crazy I cant every see myself spending 1k+ on headphones or anything like that. I need to most future proof amp I can get.


 
 At 300 Ohms the difference between the M2 Uber and Asgard 2 is just 0.7 dB. At 600 Ohms it's also 0.7 dB. Not much to sweat over. The amount of power you need from an amp depends on the headphone's impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is often overlooked by most people. As I always say, the distortion levels in these amps is far below what a human can perceive so it is unlikely that one can tell the difference when a proper comparison is made.
 What's nice about the Magni is it's incredible value, performance and good build quality. Isn't that what put Schiit on the map, a great value/performance product.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Well, I'm limited to IEM because I can't get by strong magnets, I heard the tubes help with finer detail and brings out guitar and vocals more.


 
 You should try to go somewhere to hear for yourself and do a proper volume matched comparison. Otherwise you will get all sorts of conflicting stories, often hot blooded arguments. After much comparisons I prefer SS, ymmv.


----------



## superjawes

loki993 said:


> Im looking for a nice SS amp with some power for anything from 60 ohm up to 600 ohm Beyers at some point so basically a do all amp. If money were no object id probably say the LYR2 because I just cant imagine anything every needing more power than that can provide, I know its tube but its a hybrid, also its got power.
> 
> Probably more reasonable in my price range is the Asgard 2 and the Magni 2 uber. These 2 puzzle me...the Mangi is really powerful for its size and price....it seems like nearly nothing in its range even comes close. Compared to the Asgard the Magni puts more power, on paper, into lower impedance headphones and really isnt that far off with the high impedance ones either...I think at 300 ohms the difference is 60mw....Honestly though I don't know how significant that is.
> 
> So I guess the real question is aside from the fact that its bigger and can double as a space heater...why would I want an Asgard over the magni? Its an honest question im not being factious either, Im struggling to find a reason but if there is one I have no problem getting the Asgard. Basically I want an amp that shouldnt have a problem powering anything id every throw at it from 600 ohm beyers the orthos and anything in between, without getting too crazy I cant every see myself spending 1k+ on headphones or anything like that. I need to most future proof amp I can get.


Asgard = Class A, no overall feedback. Magni 1/2/2U = constant feedback (Class AB, IIRC). If that doesn't mean anything to you, you might as well go with a Magni. The "Class A" bit about Asgard is somewhat important because it means more power draw, which means more heat to dissapate, which means it doesn't really work in a super-small, Magni-sized chassis.


----------



## loki993

stand said:


> At 300 Ohms the difference between the M2 Uber and Asgard 2 is just 0.7 dB. At 600 Ohms it's also 0.7 dB. Not much to sweat over. The amount of power you need from an amp depends on the headphone's impedance and sensitivity. Sensitivity is often overlooked by most people. As I always say, the distortion levels in these amps is far below what a human can perceive so it is unlikely that one can tell the difference when a proper comparison is made.
> What's nice about the Magni is it's incredible value, performance and good build quality. Isn't that what put Schiit on the map, a great value/performance product.




I didn't think it was much to sweat over either...which is why Im curious as to why the extra money would be worth it to me. The price vs performance is for sure what brought me to them. I mean on paper at least they're stuff is really tough to beat. It actually confuses me when people say they don't like them or they don't make good stuff..or its just mediocre. Some of it I think is just haters and/or people that think the may be exposing some of the snake oil of the audio industry. IF some other manufacturers made the same amps they would probably cost double or triple what Schitt is selling them for. 

I suppose all said and done, 150 for a M2U isnt really a lot of money so I guess if I eventually have to replace it its not a hige deal...but maybe Im just looking for a reason to spend more lol, and probably a reason thats not there.

I guess when I look at the specs of the Asgard vs the Magni then I see now people say the Asgard sounds a lot better then the Magni..I just dont really see how. Again though Im no engineer, nor do I claim to know as much about electronics then the people that make the stuff so Im sure they know what theyre doing.


----------



## tafens

On SS vs tubes, I've got the Magni2U and plenty happy with it.

If I had had a tube amp then I'd wonder about tube rolling, would have to try it, it would cost a lot of money and regardless of how many tubes I try there's always another that just might sound better that I would have to try also...

I don't have the budget for that so, no.


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> I didn't think it was much to sweat over either...which is why Im curious as to why the extra money would be worth it to me. The price vs performance is for sure what brought me to them. I mean on paper at least they're stuff is really tough to beat. It actually confuses me when people say they don't like them or they don't make good stuff..or its just mediocre. Some of it I think is just haters and/or people that think the may be exposing some of the snake oil of the audio industry. IF some other manufacturers made the same amps they would probably cost double or triple what Schitt is selling them for.
> 
> I suppose all said and done, 150 for a M2U isnt really a lot of money so I guess if I eventually have to replace it its not a hige deal...but maybe Im just looking for a reason to spend more lol, and probably a reason thats not there.
> 
> I guess when I look at the specs of the Asgard vs the Magni then I see now people say the Asgard sounds a lot better then the Magni..I just dont really see how. Again though Im no engineer, nor do I claim to know as much about electronics then the people that make the stuff so Im sure they know what theyre doing.


 
 Sometimes what people say and what is real are two different things as we are easily fooled by the short time period, scant few seconds, for the auditory memory of fine details. I wouldn't get hung up on this business and simply listen and enjoy to your music.


----------



## Defiant00

loki993 said:


> I didn't think it was much to sweat over either...which is why Im curious as to why the extra money would be worth it to me. The price vs performance is for sure what brought me to them. I mean on paper at least they're stuff is really tough to beat. It actually confuses me when people say they don't like them or they don't make good stuff..or its just mediocre. Some of it I think is just haters and/or people that think the may be exposing some of the snake oil of the audio industry. IF some other manufacturers made the same amps they would probably cost double or triple what Schitt is selling them for.
> 
> I suppose all said and done, 150 for a M2U isnt really a lot of money so I guess if I eventually have to replace it its not a hige deal...but maybe Im just looking for a reason to spend more lol, and probably a reason thats not there.
> 
> I guess when I look at the specs of the Asgard vs the Magni then I see now people say the Asgard sounds a lot better then the Magni..I just dont really see how. Again though Im no engineer, nor do I claim to know as much about electronics then the people that make the stuff so Im sure they know what theyre doing.


 
  
 Asgard looks nicer (to me) and the volume control is a lot nicer to use (larger, smoother, basically no channel imbalance).
  
 I haven't heard the M2U (only the original), but I suspect I'd have picked it instead of my Asgard 2 if it had been an option at the time (the original Magni's fixed high gain was a main reason for me to choose the Asgard 2).


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well I have the magni and modi and they sound great, as far as higher ohm IEMs, I'm looking at getting the 50ohm klipsch x11i or x7i 





stand said:


> You should try to go somewhere to hear for yourself and do a proper volume matched comparison. Otherwise you will get all sorts of conflicting stories, often hot blooded arguments. After much comparisons I prefer SS, ymmv.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, well I have the magni and modi and they sound great, as far as higher ohm IEMs, I'm looking at getting the 50ohm klipsch x11i or x7i


 
 I wouldn't exactly call 50 Ohms high impedance as far as amps go. That would be more like 300 Ohms or more.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, do you know of any IEMs that are that high? (I'm stuck using IEMs because of something medical I have) would the Valhalla2 still be great for tube sound even with a iem? Thanks 





stand said:


> I wouldn't exactly call 50 Ohms high impedance as far as amps go. That would be more like 300 Ohms or more.


----------



## superjawes

bretemm said:


> Ok, do you know of any IEMs that are that high? (I'm stuck using IEMs because of something medical I have) would the Valhalla2 still be great for tube sound even with a iem? Thanks


Valhalla 2's output impedance (on low gain) is 3.5 Ohms. As long as you damping factor is higher than 8 (Damping factor = input impedance / output impedance), you should be good.

A Valhalla still wouldn't necessarily be a perfect choice, and it might be a little overkill, but as far as "will this work?" I think you'll be fine.


----------



## Lupino

According to Nick from Schiit the Valhalla will be"fairly noisy with IEMs".


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but tho, is there any iem that has a "headphone quality"? I'm looking at the klipsch x11i right now, or the shure ae846, but I'm not sure what iem would be good 





lupino said:


> According to Nick from Schiit the Valhalla will be"fairly noisy with IEMs".


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Ok, but tho, is there any iem that has a "headphone quality"? I'm looking at the klipsch x11i right now, or the shure ae846, but I'm not sure what iem would be good


 
  
 It all comes down to preference. Some say IEMs can't touch headphones in terms of SQ while there are others that say the opposite. 
  
 All depends on what you need them for. Personally I like anything that produces good sound


----------



## superjawes

Well depending on the driver type, some IEMs are actually supposed to be more accurate than their "full size" headphone equivalents. However, you'll lose sound stage and potentially bass response.

The main takeaway is that IEMs are "different".

Oh, and I can't speak from experience on the noisiness of IEMs with Valhalla, but it wouldn't surprise me. Tubes just tend to be noisy, and IEMs are typically very sensitive, so that noise just gets played along with the music.


----------



## KLJTech

I've never heard the Klipsch X11i's but the outer case/design looks extremely similar to the X10 and X10i. All of my full-size and portable (like the B&W P7's) headphones outshine the Klipsch X10's and X10i's by a pretty good margin, in my opinion. I haven't heard a ton of high dollar IEM's, but I can tell you that the Westone W40's that I use daily sound very, very good and with great source material can give a lot of good full-size headphones a run for their money. Plus you can wear them longer as your head doesn't get sore from a headphone's headband and in-ears won't make you sweaty like some earcups will cause. I've heard that the W60's are even more impressive if you can swing the asking price. If you can afford to spend the money IEM's have gotten incredibly good over the past several years. 
  
 As an aside the Asgard 2 sounds fantastic (on low gain) with IEM's like the W40's. I use the Gungnir/Asgard 2 stack in my office setup and I use IEM's almost every day with that setup and love it.


----------



## bretemm

What if I used the rca out of the Valhalla to go to my magni or modi (the headphone amp part) would that possibly cut down on noise from the Valhalla? But still give me tube sound/quality?


----------



## superjawes

bretemm said:


> What if I used the rca out of the Valhalla to go to my magni or modi (the headphone amp part) would that possibly cut down on noise from the Valhalla? But still give me tube sound/quality?


No.


----------



## loki993

defiant00 said:


> Asgard looks nicer (to me) and the volume control is a lot nicer to use (larger, smoother, basically no channel imbalance).
> 
> I haven't heard the M2U (only the original), but I suspect I'd have picked it instead of my Asgard 2 if it had been an option at the time (the original Magni's fixed high gain was a main reason for me to choose the Asgard 2).




I completely agree it looks better, but for me I'm mostly concerned about performance and convenience. My room gets fairly hot as it is because my desktop pushes a lot of heat out and its just not a very big room. So another component in there throwing a bunch of heat is less than ideal. Plus with the size of it, not to mention the heat, I'm a bit limited to where where I can put it. The Magni I can put just about anywhere. Well I guess that about answers my own question. 

My biggest concern was performance, is the Asgard a big step up from the Magni, I guess through reading here and reading other threads, yes its better but how much is debatable and for me at least I don't think I'm willing to deal with all the comes with the Asgard, let alone the hundred extra bucks, for the extra bit of performance it would provide. 

I do wish Schitt would make a full SS amp with the power or at least close to the power of the Lyr for those that dont want to deal with tubes.


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> I completely agree it looks better, but for me I'm mostly concerned about performance and convenience. My room gets fairly hot as it is because my desktop pushes a lot of heat out and its just not a very big room. So another component in there throwing a bunch of heat is less than ideal. Plus with the size of it, not to mention the heat, I'm a bit limited to where where I can put it. The Magni I can put just about anywhere. Well I guess that about answers my own question.
> 
> My biggest concern was performance, is the Asgard a big step up from the Magni, I guess through reading here and reading other threads, yes its better but how much is debatable and for me at least I don't think I'm willing to deal with all the comes with the Asgard, let alone the hundred extra bucks, for the extra bit of performance it would provide.
> 
> I do wish Schitt would make a full SS amp with the power or at least close to the power of the Lyr for those that dont want to deal with tubes.


 
 It's not the tubes that delivers power for the lyr, it's a hybrid amp with a SS output stage. For most headphones the output power of the Magni 2 should be *more than enough*. One should check the requirements of the headphone(s) you are interested in as to both sensitivity and impedance to determine the power requirements. If one does a proper A/B comparison between these amps with a switch, I doubt that anyone would really be able to tell the difference. If one has an unusual headphone like an HE-6 then the driving requirements come into play. Good luck, I'm sure that whichever you pick, it will sound great.


----------



## loki993

stand said:


> It's not the tubes that delivers power for the lyr, it's a hybrid amp with a SS output stage. For most headphones the output power of the Magni 2 should be *more than enough*. One should check the requirements of the headphone(s) you are interested in as to both sensitivity and impedance to determine the power requirements. If one does a proper A/B comparison between these amps with a switch, I doubt that anyone would really be able to tell the difference. If one has an unusual headphone like an HE-6 then the driving requirements come into play. Good luck, I'm sure that whichever you pick, it will sound great.




I understand that but the tubes in the Lyr do color the sound. If I want that power without that coloration and distortion Schitt doesn't provide that yet. And I know Magni is plenty but down the road Ill probably get some 600 ohm beyers and putting more than 160mw into them would probably be at least a little beneficial. This is where something like an SS Lyr would be nice. Even better still would be an SS amp that puts more power into higher ohm loads instead of less....this way you can listen to your 600 ohm beyers, but then plug in your low impedance phones and not risk blowing you ear drums out with a touch of the knob because its putting out 37 watts at 30 ohms or something silly like that. Honestly though I don't know if that's even possible since I don't think I've ever seen an SS amp that does it. Tons of Tube amps do though. If they can do that it would probably be a true end game amp for me. It can probably be done, whether or not its practical to do so is another question entirely....


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> I understand that but the tubes in the Lyr do color the sound. If I want that power without that coloration and distortion Schitt doesn't provide that yet. And I know Magni is plenty but down the road Ill probably get some 600 ohm beyers and putting more than 160mw into them would probably be at least a little beneficial. This is where something like an SS Lyr would be nice. Even better still would be an SS amp that puts more power into higher ohm loads instead of less....this way you can listen to your 600 ohm beyers, but then plug in your low impedance phones and not risk blowing you ear drums out with a touch of the knob because its putting out 37 watts at 30 ohms or something silly like that. Honestly though I don't know if that's even possible since I don't think I've ever seen an SS amp that does it. Tons of Tube amps do though. If they can do that it would probably be a true end game amp for me. It can probably be done, whether or not its practical to do so is another question entirely....


 
 Did you check the sensitivity spec of the 600 Ohm Beyers that you are interested in to determine how much power is actually required to satisfy your personal listening levels and headroom? Many people feel that if the max power can deliver 115 dB SPL that is more than enough. Some want more, some want less. Excess is wasted as it is never drawn upon. If an amp can deliver power at the max required level, there is nothing to be gained with more.


----------



## raybone0566

loki993 said:


> I completely agree it looks better, but for me I'm mostly concerned about performance and convenience. My room gets fairly hot as it is because my desktop pushes a lot of heat out and its just not a very big room. So another component in there throwing a bunch of heat is less than ideal. Plus with the size of it, not to mention the heat, I'm a bit limited to where where I can put it. The Magni I can put just about anywhere. Well I guess that about answers my own question.
> 
> My biggest concern was performance, is the Asgard a big step up from the Magni, I guess through reading here and reading other threads, yes its better but how much is debatable and for me at least I don't think I'm willing to deal with all the comes with the Asgard, let alone the hundred extra bucks, for the extra bit of performance it would provide.
> 
> I do wish Schitt would make a full SS amp with the power or at least close to the power of the Lyr for those that dont want to deal with tubes.


schiit may not offer that currently, but if you're looking for something now you should check out violectric. All their amps have lots of power and can drive any headphone.


----------



## reddog

loki993 said:


> I completely agree it looks better, but for me I'm mostly concerned about performance and convenience. My room gets fairly hot as it is because my desktop pushes a lot of heat out and its just not a very big room. So another component in there throwing a bunch of heat is less than ideal. Plus with the size of it, not to mention the heat, I'm a bit limited to where where I can put it. The Magni I can put just about anywhere. Well I guess that about answers my own question.
> 
> My biggest concern was performance, is the Asgard a big step up from the Magni, I guess through reading here and reading other threads, yes its better but how much is debatable and for me at least I don't think I'm willing to deal with all the comes with the Asgard, let alone the hundred extra bucks, for the extra bit of performance it would provide.
> 
> I do wish Schitt would make a full SS amp with the power or at least close to the power of the Lyr for those that dont want to deal with tubes.



Hmmm I was thinking project ember or Polaris,( forget which one is SS amp). Read up on it and see if it be good for you.


----------



## bretemm

Would a high ohm IEM be good to use with the Valhalla? I'm really wanting to explore audio now, but again, I can't get by strong magnets


----------



## bretemm

How about 150ohm hifiman iem? There's a pair for around $50 at bestbuy 





stand said:


> I wouldn't exactly call 50 Ohms high impedance as far as amps go. That would be more like 300 Ohms or more.


----------



## loki993

raybone0566 said:


> schiit may not offer that currently, but if you're looking for something now you should check out violectric. All their amps have lots of power and can drive any headphone.




Yeah most of their stuff is out of my price range and they're specs aren't all that specific sometimes. Its not something I need now, just a nice to have in the future.



reddog said:


> Hmmm I was thinking project ember or Polaris,( forget which one is SS amp). Read up on it and see if it be good for you.




I looked at it and yes its nice but again comparing it to the Magni its 100 bucks more..but it does put out a fair bit more power too. 

On the other hand looking at audiobot, not sure how accurate it is, but according to it the magni 2 will drive even 600 ohm beyers to near ear bleeding levels. 

Im pretty set on the Magni at this point, anything else I say is pretty much just thinking out loud about what may be nice to have in to future. Thought those lake people amps do look intriguing, but pricey.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> How about 150ohm hifiman iem? There's a pair for around $50 at bestbuy


 
 That pair is $69 and not direct from BB. I haven't heard them and tend to spend a bit more on IEMs. My experiences with inexpensive IEM's have not been pleasing.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so for a pair of hi ohm IEMs, what would you suggest? Thanks! 





stand said:


> That pair is $69 and not direct from BB. I haven't heard them and tend to spend a bit more on IEMs. My experiences with inexpensive IEM's have not been pleasing.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, so for a pair of hi ohm IEMs, what would you suggest? Thanks!


 
 What's your budget? Keep in mind that if you are concerned about noise it's not just impedance but sensitivity that's important. Most IEMs are on the sensitive side. If you're contemplating the Valhalla 2, the good thing is that the SNR in low gain is 98 dB or better, which is good for a tube amp.


----------



## MWSVette

bretemm said:


> What if I used the rca out of the Valhalla to go to my magni or modi (the headphone amp part) would that possibly cut down on noise from the Valhalla? But still give me tube sound/quality?


 

 No, on cutting down noise.  Yes, on giving that "tube sound"


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well right now under $1k would be nice, I have looked at Shure around $3-500 then also klipsch around $350, but around $500 or under, what would be a great iem with the ideal specs be? Thank you again 





stand said:


> What's your budget? Keep in mind that if you are concerned about noise it's not just impedance but sensitivity that's important. Most IEMs are on the sensitive side. If you're contemplating the Valhalla 2, the good thing is that the SNR in low gain is 98 dB or better, which is good for a tube amp.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Ok, well right now under $1k would be nice, I have looked at Shure around $3-500 then also klipsch around $350, but around $500 or under, what would be a great iem with the ideal specs be? Thank you again


 
 The Sennheiser flagship IEM rolls in around $1K. I've picked up a pair of Sony XBA-H3's which are hybrid dynamic/BA (Balanced Armature), the prices vary on Amazon, plenty of sales, $272 right now using Prime. The dynamic element has a 16 mm diaphragm, I believe the impedance is 40 or 41 Ohms. I like a good extended bass and this one fits the bill, however, I much prefer my headphones, which of course is not in your plans.
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XBAH3-Hybrid-Driver-Headphones/dp/B00FJISZ28


----------



## MWSVette

bretemm said:


> Ok, well right now under $1k would be nice, I have looked at Shure around $3-500 then also klipsch around $350, but around $500 or under, what would be a great iem with the ideal specs be? Thank you again


 
  
  
 IMHO there are no ideal specs when it comes to either IEM's or HP's.   You do not listen to the specs and every person hears sound differently.  You should try different IEM's until you find a sound signature you like.  The IEM's or HP's will give you the biggest difference in sound compared to anything else in your system.  I find that DAC's and amps change the sound quality far less than changing IEM's and HP's.
  
 That said I like the Sennheiser IE800 for in ear listening.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

bretemm said:


> Ok, do you know of any IEMs that are that high? (I'm stuck using IEMs because of something medical I have) would the Valhalla2 still be great for tube sound even with a iem? Thanks



I'm still wondering why you can't use Electrostatic headphones. No magnets


----------



## bretemm

They really don't have magnets? Hmm, I trust it but then, even tho something is static and a peice of plastic is drawn to static vs a magnet to metal, it still kinda is weird with that it's still has a "force" even tho it's not a true maget. I think I could use the static electric headphones tho, thank you 





exacoustatowner said:


> I'm still wondering why you can't use Electrostatic headphones. No magnets


----------



## Exacoustatowner

bretemm said:


> They really don't have magnets? Hmm, I trust it but then, even tho something is static and a peice of plastic is drawn to static vs a magnet to metal, it still kinda is weird with that it's still has a "force" even tho it's not a true maget. I think I could use the static electric headphones tho, thank you


 
 They are not cheap. I think there are some in the $500 range.But they are fantastic
 http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/stax/electrostatic.htm


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> They really don't have magnets? Hmm, I trust it but then, even tho something is static and a peice of plastic is drawn to static vs a magnet to metal, it still kinda is weird with that it's still has a "force" even tho it's not a true maget. I think I could use the static electric headphones tho, thank you


 
 Keep in mind that you will require a different amp than what you might already own, one that goes to much higher voltages.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> Keep in mind that you will require a different amp than what you might already own, one that goes to much higher voltages.


 
 That is very true! But it is the only way that I know of to have full sized HP-if you can't have strong magnets for medical reasons.


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> That is very true! But it is the only way that I know of to have full sized HP-if you can't have strong magnets for medical reasons.


 
 Yep, I was just stating that so bretemm knows.


----------



## bearFNF

Also, remember that electrostatic fields act very similarly to magnetic fields. they're not as strong and are in different directions but they are still present. you may want to find out the electrostatic fields will effect your devices.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you!


----------



## Synergist969

To All Who Wish to Assist:
  
  
    Having now very happily acquired the Schiit Audio Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, (both of which in theory are well broken-in by now...300+ hours signal processing on the Yggdrasil and thousands on the Ragnarok)... 
  
     I elected to re-cable with balanced/XLR terminated cables in order to utilize the balanced connections offered by the above components, purchasing these Blue Jeans Cable company's recommended balanced cables:
  
*Belden 1694A Digital Audio Cable* : 20 ft., connecting my OPPO DVD player digital output to the Yggdrasil
  
*Canare L-4E6S Star Quad Balanced Audio Cable*: 20 ft. cable to connect Yggdrasil analog output to Ragnarok, and 10 ft. cable to connect Ragnarok output to Marchand Crossover, and single-ended interconnects to an Aragon 4004 amp..
  
   Due to current space limitations/stereo system configuration necessities the interconnects were longer than IDEAL... and prior to the re-cabling utilized a smattering of Straight Wire single ended interconnects, (pre-Yggdrasil), utilizing a Bifrost .  In the former configuration, the sonic signature was appreciably more "organic/Mid-Hall".
  
   My stereo system NOW sounds, (both through my monitors, (Lipinski Sound L-707's), and even my Audeze LCD-2.2's-pre-fazor)), somewhat edgy or harsh from the upper mid-range through the high frequencies, with a digital glare often encountered when playing massed voices, massed strings/upper strings, and just feels hyper-detailed.
  
   Now I realize that the Yggdrasil is designed to wring out the last bits of detail from digital sources, (and YES, the detail/soundstaging/imaging is AMAZING!), however, I think that this, (the HARSHNESS), is NOT what Schiit Audio designed into their flagship D/A converter, and I seriously wonder if it is the new cables installed in my stereo system. 
   Anyone with experience with the above mentioned cables...?...
  
   Based on my expressed preference for an organic, mid-hall-center orchestral hall sonic presentation, John Pharo with "The Cable Company" has suggested cable lines/"a full loom" from:
 Purist Audio Designs,
 Audience,
 JPS Labs
  
 and "Audio Advisor" has suggested cable lines from Cardas...
  
 Anyone who would like to weigh-in on this harshness matter/these alternative choices and/or their own cable experience with or without Ragnarok and/or Yggdrasil, their input would be very welcome.
  
 Thank you in advance.
  
 T.A.K.
  
 P.S. Yes, I KNOW there is always an ongoing debate, (tacit or otherwise), regarding cable sonic property existence vs. nonexistence, however, it does seem to be MY experience that at least in the analog domain cables can induce varied sonic qualities, depending on the cable design.


----------



## StanD

Try some EQ.


----------



## Synergist969

Once I get my CD's burned onto my computer's outboard hard discs, I might try the equalization available within the JRiver application, however, until then...besides, quite sometime ago I elected to dispense with outboard equalizers, hoping to maintain as pristine an audio chain as is reasonably possible...besides, I also listen to web-based, digital music feeds, and not sure how to equalize those feeds...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> Try some EQ.


 
 I have had good luck with the Rane DEQ60L


----------



## Exacoustatowner

synergist969 said:


> To All Who Wish to Assist:
> 
> 
> Having now very happily acquired the Schiit Audio Ragnarok and Yggdrasil, (both of which in theory are well broken-in by now...300+ hours signal processing on the Yggdrasil and thousands on the Ragnarok)...
> ...


 
  If you believe that you can alter the sound properties so much with cable-I've seen measurements with *thin* and l*ong cable* runs that can cause a roll off in the upper registers )"Skin Effect" is not relevant in the audio frequencies .If you are are willing to spend thousands on cable- why not try an EQ? You are willing to spend $$$ on exotic cables- do some searches on audiophile grade EQ's. There are a few out there. I like my RANE DEQ60L. Your OPPO has XLR-as does the RANE. XLR is also best for longer cable runs since it cancels various types of noise-by valid engineering design. Not a drop of Snake Oil.


----------



## MWSVette

stand said:


> Try some EQ.


 

 I use a Parasound R/EQ 150 for the room and Foobar2000 EQ if using HP's...


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> If you believe that you can alter the sound properties so much with cable-I've seen measurements with *thin* and l*ong cable* runs that can cause a roll off in the upper registers )"Skin Effect" is not relevant in the audio frequencies until you have  LONG runs of thin cable). .If you are are willing to spend thousands on cable- why not try an EQ? You are willing to spend $$$ on exotic cables- do some searches on audiophile grade EQ's. There are a few out there. I like my RANE DEQ60L. Your OPPO has XLR-as does the RANE. XLR is also best for longer cable runs since it cancels various types of noise-by valid engineering design. Not a drop of Snake Oil.


 
 "Skin Effect" has no relevance with audio frequencies, at all. You are probably thinking of cable capacitance.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> "Skin Effect" has no relevance with audio frequencies, at all. You are probably thinking of cable capacitance.


 
 Thanks StanD.
 But MY hearing extends to 100 kHz! (BatBoy)  Capacitance can rolloff high frequencies. I used to tinker with speaker building and Radio Shack had capacitors, transistors, etc. 
  
  
 No desire to spread mis-information. The articles compared various Audiophile and less expensive cables and concluded there was little difference in the audible frequencies based on measurements. The point was made that in nearly every case "skin effect" was NOT relevant in the audible frequencies unless you are a Bat. The point that they were talking about LONG runs makes capacitance the likely culprit


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> Thanks StanD.
> But MY hearing extends to 100 kHz! (BatBoy)  Capacitance can rolloff high frequencies. I used to tinker with speaker building and Radio Shack had capacitors, transistors, etc.
> I'll go digging but I thought I saw actual measurements showing that an extremely LONG thin "Audiophile" cable had some role off at the limits of human hearing. If I misread it-I'll post. It may be my late night reading (on my phone) missed the change of charts to roll off due to microfarads.
> 
> No desire to spread mis-information. The articles compared various Audiophile and less expensive cables and concluded there was little difference in the audible frequencies based on measurements. The point was made that in nearly every case "skin effect" was NOT relevant in the audible frequencies unless you are a Bat. The point that they were talking about LONG runs makes capacitance the likely culprit


 
 You stated that "Skin Effect is not relevant in the audio frequencies until you have  LONG runs of thin cable)." Skin effect has to do with radio frequencies and microwaves, not audio or even ultrasonic. Lets not confuse anyone.


----------



## Synergist969

Thank you for your good advice.  The OPPO 981 DVD player I am using, insofar as I know, has only a coaxial digital output with which to connect it to my Yggdrasil, so, no balanced output to a digital equalizer, otherwise, that might be a good idea.  Oh, and I am actually aiming at the "entry level" or first step above that in the "audiophile" interconnects, where there tends to be a much bigger bang for one's buck.  I am not expecting miracles...however, I cannot imagine that the synergy between the Ragnarok and the Yggdrasil could result in the sonic presentation I am now receiving, as the only change I made between "before" and "now", is the replacement of Bifrost with the Yggdrasil, as well as using the Blue Jeans Company recommended cables, as well as lengthening those cables and using balanced cables...


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> You stated that "Skin Effect is not relevant in the audio frequencies until you have  LONG runs of thin cable)." Skin effect has to do with radio frequencies and microwaves, not audio or even ultrasonic. Lets not confuse anyone.



Right you are!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> You stated that "Skin Effect is not relevant in the audio frequencies until you have  LONG runs of thin cable)." Skin effect has to do with radio frequencies and microwaves, not audio or even ultrasonic. Lets not confuse anyone.


 
 Good catch.
 Oh. Bad ExAcoustat! BAD Edit, bad writing. Delete the Until you have Long- goes with capacitance not microwaves. I've no desire to be given credence to Snake Oil purveyors based on Math-with probable incorrect assumptions.
  
 Here is the source. http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/skin-effect-relevance-in-speaker-cables
 I see calculated 3% increase in resistance "due to Skin Effect" at 20 Khz.in an extreme case. IMHO even IF true- no one other than a child MIGHT notice a 3% drop at 20 KHZ. EDIT: I also assume that the roll off (real) from Capacitance would be greater?
 My own knowledge is not deep enough as of yet to see the error. But I assume even if the math works-there is an incorrect assumption being made? Have at it StanD!
 http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/speaker-cable-face-off-1


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> Good catch.
> Oh. Bad ExAcoustat! BAD Edit, bad writing. Delete the Until you have Long- goes with capacitance not microwaves. I've no desire to be given credence to Snake Oil purveyors based on Math-with probable incorrect assumptions.
> 
> Here is the source. http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/skin-effect-relevance-in-speaker-cables
> ...


 
 Keep in mind that the example's less than 3% effect is on an already very low reisistance 12 GA wire (fraction of an Ohm at 10 feet). This is like almost nothing.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> Keep in mind that the example's less than 3% effect is on an already very low reisistance 12 GA wire (fraction of an Ohm at 10 feet). This is like almost nothing.



Almost nothing-not the same as nothing- but probably not audible. That's different from saying there is no Skin Effect


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> Almost nothing-not the same as nothing- but probably not audible. That's different from saying there is no Skin Effect


 
 Definitely not going to audible on 12 GA.


----------



## Maverickmonk

So after more than 2 years happy with my modi/magni stack... I just bought a lyr... Oops.


----------



## MWSVette

maverickmonk said:


> So after more than 2 years happy with my modi/magni stack... I just bought a lyr... Oops.


 

 Good choice great amp...


----------



## Maverickmonk

mwsvette said:


> Good choice great amp...


 
 Excited to hear it with my HE-400's. Now I'll end up turning the Modi into a Bifrost...


----------



## Astral Abyss

Hello everyone, new member here...
  
 I just purchased a Schiit Bifrost Uber and Lyr 2 stack, plus a pair of a LCD 2F to go along with it.  I'm upgrading from a Fiio X5/E12 < HD 650 combo.  My music needs are fairly basic.  I'm not overly critical of the sound, but I do want it to have a bit more life/dynamics than I'm currently getting.  My music is all in FLAC format copied directly from my large-ish CD collection using Exact Audio Copy.  The plan right now is to run coax from the X5 into the Bifrost.  Does this seem like a reasonable setup for now?  I don't want to hook it up to a PC, at least not at the moment, although I'm open to suggestions.
  
 I'm still a bit nervous as this is by far the most I've spent on audio gear.  Being fairly new to the headphone side of things, I keep second guessing my choices.  I have absolutely no experience with tubes, but I figured at least with Schiit, if I absolutely hate the Lyr, I can always return it and go with something solid state.  By having both the HD 650 and the LCD2, I can swap back and forth as the mood strikes me, plus the HD 650 can move over to my computer and do double duty there when I want to listen to music while gaming/surfing.  (As an aside, my wife has stated numerous times that my music doesn't bother her whenever I suggest I could wear headphones, but I notice a consistent change in her personality, for the worse, when I'm listening to something she doesn't like.  Plus, some of my death/black metal scares her.) Anyway, this is where my interest in getting into higher end headphones and audio gear stems from.  If I'm going to make headphones my main way of listening to music, I want to do it right and not half-ass it.   So, having said that, I'm hoping that I'll be quite happy for at least a few years with this setup.


----------



## chuck8403

astral abyss said:


> Hello everyone, new member here...
> 
> I just purchased a Schiit Bifrost Uber and Lyr 2 stack, plus a pair of a LCD 2F to go along with it.  I'm upgrading from a Fiio X5/E12 < HD 650 combo.  My music needs are fairly basic.


 
 I have the Uber with a Lyr 1 and HD650. I think you will like the sound. If you like the HD650 with a FIIO, you should be fine. Don't have the LCD 2. Can't speak to that.


----------



## Eric510

astral abyss said:


> Hello everyone, new member here...
> 
> I just purchased a Schiit Bifrost Uber and Lyr 2 stack, plus a pair of a LCD 2F to go along with it.  I'm upgrading from a Fiio X5/E12 < HD 650 combo.  My music needs are fairly basic.  I'm not overly critical of the sound, but I do want it to have a bit more life/dynamics than I'm currently getting.  My music is all in FLAC format copied directly from my large-ish CD collection using Exact Audio Copy.  The plan right now is to run coax from the X5 into the Bifrost.  Does this seem like a reasonable setup for now?  I don't want to hook it up to a PC, at least not at the moment, although I'm open to suggestions.
> 
> I'm still a bit nervous as this is by far the most I've spent on audio gear.  Being fairly new to the headphone side of things, I keep second guessing my choices.  I have absolutely no experience with tubes, but I figured at least with Schiit, if I absolutely hate the Lyr, I can always return it and go with something solid state.  By having both the HD 650 and the LCD2, I can swap back and forth as the mood strikes me, plus the HD 650 can move over to my computer and do double duty there when I want to listen to music while gaming/surfing.  (As an aside, my wife has stated numerous times that my music doesn't bother her whenever I suggest I could wear headphones, but I notice a consistent change in her personality, for the worse, when I'm listening to something she doesn't like.  Plus, some of my death/black metal scares her.) Anyway, this is where my interest in getting into higher end headphones and audio gear stems from.  If I'm going to make headphones my main way of listening to music, I want to do it right and not half-ass it.   So, having said that, I'm hoping that I'll be quite happy for at least a few years with this setup.


 

 I took a similar route as you... I've got an LCD/2F (along with my Grado GS1000e's) and upgraded from the Fiio X1/E12 to the Bifrost Uber/Lyr2. Well... I should say, I upgraded to the Lyr2 after mistakenly buying a Valhalla 2 (talk about second guessing one's choices). Beautiful amp, just the wrong one for these cans. Anyway... I think you'll love the setup. I use my computer as a transport mostly, but on occasion use my AK120 via toslink. Your X5 with all the capacity it has (two SD card slots, right?) should make a pretty good transport. 
 Funny what you said about your wife - My girlfriend and I share very opposite taste in music. The reaction you get from yours when you listen to music without headphones, is the same reaction I get when I listen to music WITH my headphones.  I'll never forget when I first moved in, setup my listening space and fired up my Grados. Through no fault of her own, she'd never witnessed open headphones before and was so confused as to why she could hear them so loudly while they were on my head. I remember her saying, "Isn't the whole point of you wearing headphones, so I don't have to hear your music?" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hah!
  
 Tell you what though - It made rationalizing the purchase of my CIEMs _much_ easier.


----------



## Wildcatsare1

eric510 said:


> I took a similar route as you... I've got an LCD/2F (along with my Grado GS1000e's) and upgraded from the Fiio X1/E12 to the Bifrost Uber/Lyr2. Well... I should say, I upgraded to the Lyr2 after mistakenly buying a Valhalla 2 (talk about second guessing one's choices). Beautiful amp, just the wrong one for these cans. Anyway... I think you'll love the setup. I use my computer as a transport mostly, but on occasion use my AK120 via toslink. Your X5 with all the capacity it has (two SD card slots, right?) should make a pretty good transport.
> Funny what you said about your wife - My girlfriend and I share very opposite taste in music. The reaction you get from yours when you listen to music without headphones, is the same reaction I get when I listen to music WITH my headphones.  I'll never forget when I first moved in, setup my listening space and fired up my Grados. Through no fault of her own, she'd never witnessed open headphones before and was so confused as to why she could hear them so loudly while they were on my head. I remember her saying, "Isn't the whole point of you wearing headphones, so I don't have to hear your music?" :blink:  hah!
> 
> Tell you what though - It made rationalizing the purchase of my CIEMs _much_ easier.




Similar story, Valhalla, then Lyr 2, even open headphones and Family. My Daughter hates my music, I know shocker what teenager doesn't like classical and jazz. Tried Alpha Dogs,really didn't like them, now have Alclair RSMs CIEMS. They rock, I never dreamed an in-ear could have a soundstage comparable to an over ear (some very good ones).


----------



## hodgjy

wildcatsare1 said:


> Similar story, Valhalla, then Lyr 2, even open headphones and Family. My Daughter hates my music, I know shocker what teenager doesn't like classical and jazz. Tried Alpha Dogs,really didn't like them, now have Alclair RSMs CIEMS. They rock, I never dreamed an in-ear could have a soundstage comparable to an over ear (some very good ones).


 
 I never understood the whole Mad/Alpha Dog (and even Alpha Prime) love because the T50RP is a low-grade driver that can be made to approach mid-grade, but never even approaching that price point.


----------



## rovopio

hodgjy said:


> I never understood the whole Mad/Alpha Dog (and even Alpha Prime) love because the T50RP is a low-grade driver that can be made to approach mid-grade, but never even approaching that price point.


 
  
 The Alpha Dogs sounds as good as HD650 though. And given both cost >$500 where I'm at, it becomes matters of preference which one somebody will choose between the two.
  
 Even if T50rp drivers are cheap, I don't think many headphones drivers are that expensive either. I seriously don't think Hifiman's 400i and 560 driver are that expensive to make to be honest.


----------



## hodgjy

rovopio said:


> The Alpha Dogs sounds as good as HD650 though. And given both cost >$500 where I'm at, it becomes matters of preference which one somebody will choose between the two.
> 
> Even if T50rp drivers are cheap, I don't think many headphones drivers are that expensive either. I seriously don't think Hifiman's 400i and 560 driver are that expensive to make to be honest.


 
 I should elaborate a little. The T50RP drivers are cheap and sound cheap. They have that cheap midrange honk that never goes away, even with extensive modding.


----------



## Astral Abyss

eric510 said:


> I took a similar route as you... I've got an LCD/2F (along with my Grado GS1000e's) and upgraded from the Fiio X1/E12 to the Bifrost Uber/Lyr2. Well... I should say, I upgraded to the Lyr2 after mistakenly buying a Valhalla 2 (talk about second guessing one's choices). Beautiful amp, just the wrong one for these cans. Anyway... I think you'll love the setup. I use my computer as a transport mostly, but on occasion use my AK120 via toslink. Your X5 with all the capacity it has (two SD card slots, right?) should make a pretty good transport.
> Funny what you said about your wife - My girlfriend and I share very opposite taste in music. The reaction you get from yours when you listen to music without headphones, is the same reaction I get when I listen to music WITH my headphones.  I'll never forget when I first moved in, setup my listening space and fired up my Grados. Through no fault of her own, she'd never witnessed open headphones before and was so confused as to why she could hear them so loudly while they were on my head. I remember her saying, "Isn't the whole point of you wearing headphones, so I don't have to hear your music?"
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, the X5 has two microSD slots that will take any SDXC card, currently 128GB each.  That covers about 80% of my music, some of which I don't care to listen to through headphones, so no problems there.  
  
 My LCD-2Fs came in yesterday.  Even just plugging them into the X5/E12 combo I could tell they were a step up over the HD650s.  I love the retro look they have.  It's just timelessly classic.  Sure is a nicer look and feel than the plasticy HD650s.  I realize that doesn't affect the sound, but it's nice to know I bought something that wasn't cranked out en masse as quickly and cheaply as possible.
  
 The Bifrost Uber and Lyr 2 are waiting for me to pick up at the FedEx office after work.  It's really hard to stay focused today.


----------



## Cryozeal

I've just Schiit Asgard II + Modi for a few months. My experience is good so far. The only complain is the LED lights of each one are not in the same color - -" I don't understand why Modi has cool white, but Asgard II has warm white. Is it just me, or does anyone experiencing the same thing?


----------



## raybone0566

cryozeal said:


> I've just Schiit Asgard II + Modi for a few months. My experience is good so far. The only complain is the LED lights of each one are not in the same color - -" I don't understand why Modi has cool white, but Asgard II has warm white. Is it just me, or does anyone experiencing the same thing?


Never really paid any attention to that. I'm always to busy listening to the sound coming out of them.


----------



## 520RanchBro

cryozeal said:


> I've just Schiit Asgard II + Modi for a few months. My experience is good so far. The only complain is the LED lights of each one are not in the same color - -" I don't understand why Modi has cool white, but Asgard II has warm white. Is it just me, or does anyone experiencing the same thing?


 
 My A2 and Modi 2 Uber both have the same cool white color.


----------



## Cryozeal

raybone0566 said:


> Never really paid any attention to that. I'm always to busy listening to the sound coming out of them.


 
 I should learn to ignore too, hahaha. It's just always in front of me bothering me.


----------



## Pirakaphile

cryozeal said:


> I should learn to ignore too, hahaha. It's just always in front of me bothering me.



Electrical tape!


----------



## superjawes

I could see the LEDs appearing to be different colors because of the chassis. Modi is painted steel, while Asgard is straight aluminum. Modi 2 Uber has the aluminum top, so that LED might look the same as Asgard. The Aluminum would be reflecting more light than the steel, and the newer Magnis/Modis have darker paint (compared to one made circa 2013). That would make the contrast between LED and chassis different, resulting in a different appearance.

But I don't have an Asgard, so unless someone wants to send me one for science...


----------



## rovopio

cryozeal said:


> I've just Schiit Asgard II + Modi for a few months. My experience is good so far. The only complain is the LED lights of each one are not in the same color - -" I don't understand why Modi has cool white, but Asgard II has warm white. Is it just me, or does anyone experiencing the same thing?


 
  
 google Lightdims


----------



## theblueprint

superjawes said:


> I could see the LEDs appearing to be different colors because of the chassis. Modi is painted steel, while Asgard is straight aluminum. Modi 2 Uber has the aluminum top, so that LED might look the same as Asgard. The Aluminum would be reflecting more light than the steel, and the newer Magnis/Modis have darker paint (compared to one made circa 2013). That would make the contrast between LED and chassis different, resulting in a different appearance.
> 
> But I don't have an Asgard, so unless someone wants to send me one for science...




haha. That doesn't explain my Schiit. I have an Asgard 2 and bifrost uber with a wyrd. The Asgard is really bright, while the bifrost is very dim. The wyrd, with its steel chassis, is bright as Asgard.


----------



## David Aldrich

My Wyrd and Mjolnir light up the room with nearly identical color and brightness, the Gungnir is much more subdued but a similar color. Just need get in there and either swap out the resistor and/org change out the LED. How about a nice pink LED.


----------



## MWSVette

david aldrich said:


> My Wyrd and Mjolnir light up the room with nearly identical color and brightness, the Gungnir is much more subdued but a similar color. Just need get in there and either swap out the resistor and/org change out the LED. How about a nice pink LED.


 

 I want one that changes colors with the beat of the music....


----------



## David Aldrich

Yikes! I don't know about RGB sound sensing. Hell I turn the Mjolnir off when not in use anyways.


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> I want one that changes colors with the beat of the music....


 
 Perhaps that is the **REDACTED** product that everyone keeps talking about.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mwsvette said:


> I want one that changes colors with the beat of the music....



An after market mod for those people who need more than a Lava Lamp!


----------



## bretemm

i read the most recent interview with Schiit, in the 4 years as a company they went from $10,000 to $10mil, its great that they can cut costs and sell by a true price, they said they only have 10 employees, i hope they hire more or something so the "upkeep" doesnt get to them out of nowhere. what jason said kinda puts other motos or quality by other companies down. Schiit is awesome!
  
 i hope the new rumored product works well with IEM's


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

just got my bifrost uber and vali this morning...they sound wonderful!


----------



## theblueprint

bosiemoncrieff said:


> just got my bifrost uber and vali this morning...they sound wonderful!




That stack + your Q701 sounds heavenly I bet!


----------



## MrPanda

theblueprint said:


> That stack + your Q701 sounds heavenly I bet!


 

 I'd be really interested to know how Q701 performs with Vali...


----------



## JamesBr

david aldrich said:


> Yikes! I don't know about RGB sound sensing. Hell I turn the Mjolnir off when not in use anyways.


 
  
 Works too


----------



## rovopio

Can I ask a (somewhat) technical question about the Vali...?
  
 1) Does a 110v and 230v Vali's inside different?
 -- As in, is it possible for me to buy a 110v Vali say, from head-fi and then I use them with my 230v Magni's supplied plug? Or order a 230v Vali supplied plug from Schiit after the fact.....
 2) Also, between the different 230v plug, if I'm from a Europlug Country and for example I go to Australia which uses it's own 230v Aus plug, can I just use converter? Or should I order the specific 230v Aus plug from Schiit directly?


----------



## David Aldrich

There is only one Vali which uses 16VAC you can use either a 115VAC adapter or 230VAC adapter with it depending on your line voltage. It uses the same adapter as the Magni.

Whichever is more convenient. As long as the line voltage is correct the plug type can be easily adapted with passive plug converters.


----------



## rovopio

david aldrich said:


> There is only one Vali which uses 16VAC you can use either a 115VAC adapter or 230VAC adapter with it depending on your line voltage. It uses the same adapter as the Magni.
> 
> Whichever is more convenient. As long as the line voltage is correct the plug type can be easily adapted with passive plug converters.


 
  
 As I understand it, Magni 2 Uber has a different power plug than the Magni 2. My Magni is the 2 Uber version. So my follow-up question is,
 can I use a Magni 2 uber adapter to power the Vali?


----------



## MWSVette

rovopio said:


> As I understand it, Magni 2 Uber has a different power plug than the Magni 2. My Magni is the 2 Uber version. So my follow-up question is,
> can I use a Magni 2 uber adapter (or Asgard, or Valhalla adapter for that matter) to power the Vali?


 

 The Valhalla and Asgard have internal power supplies not wall warts.


----------



## rovopio

mwsvette said:


> The Valhalla and Asgard have internal power supplies not wall warts.


 
  
 ahaha! I didn't know that. Thank you for replying.


----------



## bretemm

Do you think Schiit will ever possibly make speakers? 
Oak or red wood is always kinda over priced when it comes to klipsch, 

If Schiit made speakers that would be awesome


----------



## 520RanchBro

bretemm said:


> Do you think Schiit will ever possibly make speakers?
> Oak or red wood is always kinda over priced when it comes to klipsch,
> 
> If Schiit made speakers that would be awesome


 
 They've already ruled any kind of transducer out, not their area of expertise.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I wish they look at making speakers in the future possibly 





520ranchbro said:


> They've already ruled any kind of transducer out, not their area of expertise.


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> Ok, I wish they look at making speakers in the future possibly




I like Schiit as they are now, being the best at a couple things, rather than being a jack of all trades, master of none. Spreading out too thinly can be bad for them.


----------



## bretemm

Yea, well i don't mean that as in they cover allot, their products are great!, I might get the valhalla2 soon, I've emailed them acouple times with questions and Nick T was very helpful. I've recently have a better setup with my magni and modi with my appleTV and youtibe, the music videos sound great, I wish I could use Schiit with my radio. 





theblueprint said:


> I like Schiit as they are now, being the best at a couple things, rather than being a jack of all trades, master of none. Spreading out too thinly can be bad for them.


----------



## bretemm

"Not meaning it as if they don't cover allot, they do cover allot and have a great variety" is what I ment, my auto correct is acting up 





bretemm said:


> Yea, well i don't mean that as in they cover allot, their products are great!, I might get the valhalla2 soon, I've emailed them acouple times with questions and Nick T was very helpful. I've recently have a better setup with my magni and modi with my appleTV and youtibe, the music videos sound great, I wish I could use Schiit with my radio.


----------



## money4me247

bretemm said:


> Do you think Schiit will ever possibly make speakers?
> Oak or red wood is always kinda over priced when it comes to klipsch,
> 
> If Schiit made speakers that would be awesome


 
 they will not as they stated in one of their blog posts they will leave making transducers to companies experienced in that aspect. schiit is focusing on their strengths and talents  & not overreaching which I think is a good call. you see amp companies release headphones (McIntosh for example) and they can't seem to hit a competitive pricing compared to the rest of the market options


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you, I wish they did but yea I understand why not 





money4me247 said:


> they will not as they stated in one of their blog posts they will leave making transducers to companies experienced in that aspect. schiit is focusing on their strengths and talents  & not overreaching which I think is a good call. you see amp companies release headphones (McIntosh for example) and they can't seem to hit a competitive pricing compared to the rest of the market options


----------



## rovopio

david aldrich said:


> There is only one Vali which uses 16VAC you can use either a 115VAC adapter or 230VAC adapter with it depending on your line voltage. It uses the same adapter as the Magni.
> 
> Whichever is more convenient. As long as the line voltage is correct the plug type can be easily adapted with passive plug converters.


 
  
 Hi David, as I understand it, Magni 2 uber (that i have) and Magni 2 have a different adapter. The Magni 2 Uber is bigger, like a mini-brick. If I get a secondhand Vali with no adapter (well, 115 VAC adapter)... Can I use the mini-brick Magni 2 Uber adapter (that has bigger 24VA) or do I need to specifically uses the Magni/Vali adapter?
  
 The spec for M2Uber Power Supply is :: 8VA 16VAC transformer, regulated +/- 15V
 While the spec for Magni2 is ::24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/- 16V rails
 the spec for Vali is :: 16VAC transformer, regulated 60V, 26V, and 1.2V rails for tube HV, solid state, and filaments
  
 I want to get a Vali but I'm highly considering getting them secondhand to minimize the 35-40% GST tax...


----------



## David Aldrich

rovopio said:


> Hi David, as I understand it, Magni 2 uber (that i have) and Magni 2 have a different adapter. The Magni 2 Uber is bigger, like a mini-brick. If I get a secondhand Vali with no adapter (well, 115 VAC adapter)... Can I use the mini-brick Magni 2 Uber adapter (that has bigger 24VA) or do I need to specifically uses the Magni/Vali adapter?
> 
> The spec for M2Uber Power Supply is :: 8VA 16VAC transformer, regulated +/- 15V
> While the spec for Magni2 is ::24VA 14VAC transformer, regulated +/- 16V rails
> ...


 

 The 14VAC 24VA adapter for the Magni 2 Über should work with the Vali. The proper 16VAC adapter is available standalone from Schiit directly, international dealers should carry it too.


----------



## rovopio

david aldrich said:


> The 14VAC 24VA adapter for the Magni 2 Über will work with the Vali. They are also available standalone from Schiit directly.


 
  
 The spec you're quoting is the Magni 2 adapter spec (24VA 14 VAC).
 How about the Magni 2 Uber's 8VA 16VAC... Can the Magni 2 Uber's 8VA adapter run a Vali without damaging it?
  
 I have a magni 2 uber adapter at home, not the Magni 2 >_<.
  
 On buying just the adapter from Schiit... tax is calculated as 35-40% or $50 whichever the highest. So... ordering a $10 electronic adapter will incur a $50 tax...


----------



## 45longcolt

bretemm said:


> Do you think Schiit will ever possibly make speakers?
> Oak or red wood is always kinda over priced when it comes to klipsch,


 
  
 Although Jason has repeatedly dismissed the idea of making speakers (Schiithorns?) and subwoofers, I wouldn't completely rule it out. After all, Jason seems to be one of those guys whose mind never rests and who gets bored doing the same-old-same-old. What I would expect is for a Schiit speaker to come waaay out of left field, with tech no one - or almost no one - else is using. Perhaps something some mad scientist tried in the 1950s, or even the 1930s, but abandoned because the materials of the time just didn't work. And I'm betting it would be the polar opposite of the usual cones-in-a-box, probably without a splinter of oak or redwood in sight; something few people would recognize as a speaker. This is just my guess, but if such a thing does appear, remember you read it here first!


----------



## genclaymore

The one thing I want the most is a Bifrost upgrade board that has I2S on it as well as mini XLR's. or a bifrost with the corrections, but that will never happen in it price range.


----------



## money4me247

genclaymore said:


> The one thing I want the most is a Bifrost upgrade board that has I2S on it as well as mini XLR's. or a bifrost with the corrections, but that will never happen in it price range.


 
 mmm... I think it is possible to hit a dac with balanced outputs at this price point. emotiva, gustard, and audio.gd all have such options out at the sub-$520 price point. however, schiit does have the majolnir at the $750 price point and I think their approach is more along the lines of keeping everything separate than having do-it-all type devices until you hit their TOTL products.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I hope they do, I think by popularity a smaller type of speaker would be good that dosnt take allot of production time (but has a open warm sound) 





45longcolt said:


> Although Jason has repeatedly dismissed the idea of making speakers (Schiithorns?) and subwoofers, I wouldn't completely rule it out. After all, Jason seems to be one of those guys whose mind never rests and who gets bored doing the same-old-same-old. What I would expect is for a Schiit speaker to come waaay out of left field, with tech no one - or almost no one - else is using. Perhaps something some mad scientist tried in the 1950s, or even the 1930s, but abandoned because the materials of the time just didn't work. And I'm betting it would be the polar opposite of the usual cones-in-a-box, probably without a splinter of oak or redwood in sight; something few people would recognize as a speaker. This is just my guess, but if such a thing does appear, remember you read it here first!


k


----------



## Exacoustatowner

So I got my Ragnarok a few days ago. SWEET! Loving it. Now I want to move my Lyr in the bedroom with the computer… so I am starting to look into DAC's….. HAppy DAZE


----------



## Exidrion

exacoustatowner said:


> So I got my Ragnarok a few days ago. SWEET! Loving it. Now I want to move my Lyr in the bedroom with the computer… so I am starting to look into DAC's….. HAppy DAZE




Yqqy!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exidrion said:


> Yqqy!


 
 I don't know, I've already got sticker shock this year, Oppo BDP105D, Lyr (and several sets of pricey NOS tubes), HiFiman HE-560, and Rane DEQ60L-now Ragnarok. Besides, it is susceptible to power outages. And I get them intermittently-several times a year. 
 I can dream though….


----------



## Exidrion

I'll be brutally honest, I feel like the Rag isn't that big of a step up from the M-stage I had, but I've only had it 3 days and not much time to listen to it with LCD3f's, which is where I think it really shines. On the other hand, the dayy I got the Yggy the difference from the Bifrost was immediately apparent, even cold. After a week once it was it was warmed up I feel like it's leagues ahead.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exidrion said:


> I'll be brutally honest, I feel like the Rag isn't that big of a step up from the M-stage I had, but I've only had it 3 days and not much time to listen to it with LCD3f's, which is where I think it really shines. On the other hand, the dayy I got the Yggy the difference from the Bifrost was immediately apparent, even cold. After a week once it was it was warmed up I feel like it's leagues ahead.



Is M-stage of Ladder DAC type?


----------



## Exidrion

No, it's an amp. Don't get me wrong, the Rag is clearly above it. I was just expecting a bigger jump in sound quality. To me, the yggy was the biggest jump so far.

EDIT: I just want to clarify that this is only my initial impression. Don't take this as Gospel. I reserve the right to proclaim the Ragnarok is the best thing since sliced bread a week from now.


----------



## StanD

exidrion said:


> No, it's an amp. Don't get me wrong, the Rag is clearly above it. I was just expecting a bigger jump in sound quality. To me, the yggy was the biggest jump so far.
> 
> EDIT: I just want to clarify that this is only my initial impression. Don't take this as Gospel. I reserve the right to proclaim the Ragnarok is the best thing since sliced bread a week from now.


 
 I'd be surprised if it took a week to determine such a huge improvement as "The best thing since sliced bread."


----------



## Exidrion

stand said:


> I'd be surprised if it took a week to determine such a huge improvement as "The best thing since sliced bread."




I know, but I've always found things get better with time. Maybe not so much amps, but DACs and headphones for sure.


----------



## MWSVette

exidrion said:


> I know, but I've always found things get better with time. Maybe not so much amps, but DACs and headphones for sure.


 

 Also wine, scotch and good bourbon...


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> Also wine, scotch and good bourbon...



+1. Well said sir. A good shot of scotch makes the music sound sublime.


----------



## StanD

exidrion said:


> I know, but I've always found things get better with time. Maybe not so much amps, but DACs and headphones for sure.


 
 Perhaps a touch of human burn in.


----------



## Exidrion

I'm honestly running on 4 hours of sleep at work right now, so I'm way too tired for this topic, but yes perhaps a touch. A smidgit.


----------



## StanD

exidrion said:


> I'm honestly running on 4 hours of sleep at work right now, so I'm way too tired for this topic, but yes perhaps a touch. A smidgit.


 
 Doesn't sound like much down time for just listening to music.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exidrion said:


> I'm honestly running on 4 hours of sleep at work right now, so I'm way too tired for this topic, but yes perhaps a touch. A smidgit.


 
 Holy crud. That's rough. Hopefully only short periods with 4 hours. That will wreck your health.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> Doesn't sound like much down time for just listening to music.


 
 Stan,
 So you DO listen to music outside of testing the inaudible? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What type do you like? Curious I am!


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> Stan,
> So you DO listen to music outside of testing the inaudible?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I spend most of my time enjoying music, see my signature.
 Fusion and Modern Jazz (Not Smooth), Rock, Classical, Electronic.
 You ever give a listen to Dave Weckl?


----------



## manywelps

I just joined the team by picking up a Bifrost+Asgard 2 off CL for $350.
  
 Great price until I look at the back and it's actually a USB Uberfrost...
  
 It even came with the Pyst cables.


----------



## Exidrion

That is an insane deal. Congrats.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> I spend most of my time enjoying music, see my signature.
> Fusion and Modern Jazz (Not Smooth), Rock, Classical, Electronic.
> You ever give a listen to Dave Weckl?



Ah! I'll give a listen. I listen to all of the above but not much electronic.


----------



## manywelps

I just started listening to it and they sound NOTHING like the soundcards and USB dongle DACs, What?  How can the cheap dacs sound so bad?  There's no way to go back...
  
 And I'm using (relatively) ****ty tacstar pro80's  Time for some HE-500's (400s's?)?
  
 God knows I saved enough money on that deal to put them toward good cans instead, maybe HE-6's?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

exidrion said:


> No, it's an amp. Don't get me wrong, the Rag is clearly above it. I was just expecting a bigger jump in sound quality. To me, the yggy was the biggest jump so far.
> 
> EDIT: I just want to clarify that this is only my initial impression. Don't take this as Gospel. I reserve the right to proclaim the Ragnarok is the best thing since sliced bread a week from now.



Hah ha! I was ready to say that it sounds great and I've had it since Thursday. I was able to repeatedly compare the same short passages within a second or two between the Oppo, Lyr, and Ragnarok with the single ended headphone outs. Clear pref to Ragnarok. Particularly with massed violins, chorus, etc. The Lyr ( with certain NOS tubes( was always my go to for headphones.
Now it's the Rag. I seem to prefer it with balanced out. It stays balanced all the way through the chain from the Oppo, Rane DEQ60L, Ragnarok. Can't do my favorite fast level matched A/B since only the Rag has balanced HP out


----------



## manywelps

The Asgard 2 gets hot enough I can't keep my hand on the knob...
  
 Time to get creative with usb fans?


----------



## Exacoustatowner

manywelps said:


> The Asgard 2 gets hot enough I can't keep my hand on the knob...
> 
> Time to get creative with usb fans?


 
 You could! Odd though, my Ragnarok gets quite warm-but I can leave my hand on it. I did not know the Asgard got hotter. My Lyr is quite warm-but not too hot to handle.


----------



## ThurstonX

manywelps said:


> I just started listening to it and they sound NOTHING like the soundcards and USB dongle DACs, What?  How can the cheap dacs sound so bad?  There's no way to go back...
> 
> And I'm using (relatively) ****ty tacstar pro80's  Time for some HE-500's (400s's?)?
> 
> God knows I saved enough money on that deal to put them toward good cans instead, maybe HE-6's?


 
  
 LOL, and congrats on that great deal.  While I haven't heard the combo, I think most people will tell you there's no way the Asgard 2 will drive the HE-6s to anywhere near their best.  @StanD will tell you that particular Stack O' Schiit will drive the schiit out of the HE-500s.  It would probably drive the HE-560s pretty well.  So yeah, plow those savings into better cans


----------



## manywelps

thurstonx said:


> LOL, and congrats on that great deal.  While I haven't heard the combo, I think most people will tell you there's no way the Asgard 2 will drive the HE-6s to anywhere near their best.  @StanD will tell you that particular Stack O' Schiit will drive the schiit out of the HE-500s.  It would probably drive the HE-560s pretty well.  So yeah, plow those savings into better cans


 
 Good to know about the Asgard.  I tapped straight into the Uberfrost, and was not surprised that's where the awesome sound is coming from....
  
 maybe electrostatics?  I've always been interested in the ESP-950s...


----------



## ThurstonX

manywelps said:


> Good to know about the Asgard.  I tapped straight into the Uberfrost, and was not surprised that's where the awesome sound is coming from....
> 
> maybe electrostatics?  I've always been interested in the ESP-950s...


 
  
 Don't they require a different/special amp?  Well, it's your money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Personally, I'd get some planars and enjoy your awesome, super cheap Stack O' Schiit.


----------



## manywelps

thurstonx said:


> manywelps said:
> 
> 
> > Good to know about the Asgard.  I tapped straight into the Uberfrost, and was not surprised that's where the awesome sound is coming from....
> ...


 

 ESP-950s come with an energizer.
  
 The Uberfrost is responsible for the awesome sound, I'm not attached to the amp at this point.
  
 The higher end STAX electrostats do need a separate (electrostatic) amp.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> LOL, and congrats on that great deal.  While I haven't heard the combo, I think most people will tell you there's no way the Asgard 2 will drive the HE-6s to anywhere near their best.  @StanD will tell you that particular Stack O' Schiit will drive the schiit out of the HE-500s.  It would probably drive the HE-560s pretty well.  So yeah, plow those savings into better cans


 
 That's correct.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The 560's are actually 1 dB more sensitive then the 500's, althought the impedance is a little bit different. You could always lend manywelps your Lyr if he gets an HE-6.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> That's correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Or someone can lend me their HE-6s so I can hear them through my Lyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I need to determine if it's worth his trouble before I ship my Lyr


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Or someone can lend me their HE-6s so I can hear them through my Lyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Between Rangy and yourself, I foresee long term testing.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> Between Rangy and yourself, I foresee long term testing.


 

 I've always been curious about the HE-6s through the Lyr.  I know most HE-6 owners would scoff at the pairing, but when I first read about the Lyr, the author referenced the HE-6s.  I don't recall if he thought there were better amps for them, but IIRC, he liked the HE-6s through the Lyr, though to what he may have been comparing the Lyr, I don't know.  Depending on the recording, I need to put the Lyr past noon with the HE-560s (pre-Loudness Wars stuff, I reckon).  I can envision the Lyr sitting between 2 & 3 o'clock, if not higher, with the HE-6s.
  
 Now owning two pairs of HFM cans, I'm more inclined to try something different, and that's many months in the future.  Who knows what magical cans will materialize by then.  I'd love to be able to justify the Rag/Yggy combo, but there's no room in the Lab, not to mention funds in the bank.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> I've always been curious about the HE-6s through the Lyr.  I know most HE-6 owners would scoff at the pairing, but when I first read about the Lyr, the author referenced the HE-6s.  I don't recall if he thought there were better amps for them, but IIRC, he liked the HE-6s through the Lyr, though to what he may have been comparing the Lyr, I don't know.  Depending on the recording, I need to put the Lyr past noon with the HE-560s (pre-Loudness Wars stuff, I reckon).  I can envision the Lyr sitting between 2 & 3 o'clock, if not higher, with the HE-6s.
> 
> Now owning two pairs of HFM cans, I'm more inclined to try something different, and that's many months in the future.  Who knows what magical cans will materialize by then.  I'd love to be able to justify the Rag/Yggy combo, but there's no room in the Lab, not to mention funds in the bank.


 
 I'd say that the Lyr has enough juice to set your ears on fire with an HE-6. IMO too many people enjoy scoffing at things.
 Looks like it's time for Rangy to do some moonlighting.


----------



## ThurstonX

stand said:


> I'd say that the Lyr has enough juice to set your ears on fire with an HE-6. IMO too many people enjoy scoffing at things.
> Looks like it's time for Rangy to do some moonlighting.


 
  
 If it weren't so laughable, I'd scoff at your comment.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Orangutans haven't been in fashion in Hollywood since Clint made _Every Which Way But Loose_ back in the '70s.  More's the pity.  Now they just cast Charlie Sheen, et al.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> If it weren't so laughable, I'd scoff at your comment....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll take the high road and not scoff at you.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

stand said:


> I'd say that the Lyr has enough juice to set your ears on fire with an HE-6. IMO too many people enjoy scoffing at things.
> Looks like it's time for Rangy to do some moonlighting.


 
 HAhA!! 4 watts RMS/Ch into 32 Ohms. Should do fine! Set Rangy up with some HE-6's! BTW: I have my volume at 12 noon to 1:30 PM on my Ragnarok for my HE-560's- I'm not so sure the "volume clock" setting is telling you the power is limited. The Rag puts 15 watts into 32 Ohms. I'm POSITIVE I'm not pumping 7-9 watts into my headphones while listening. If I was I don't think the term "listening" would apply to my activity for long.


----------



## bretemm

When might the "REDACTED" Be avalible?


----------



## StanD

exacoustatowner said:


> HAhA!! 4 watts RMS/Ch into 32 Ohms. Should do fine! Set Rangy up with some HE-6's! BTW: I have my volume at 12 noon to 1:30 PM on my Ragnarok for my HE-560's- I'm not so sure the "volume clock" setting is telling you the power is limited. The Rag puts 15 watts into 32 Ohms. I'm POSITIVE I'm not pumping 7-9 watts into my headphones while listening. If I was I don't think the term "listening" would apply to my activity for long.


 
 Volume controls are not linear so 12 O'clock is not 50%. They have a log taper due to the way we perceive loudness. You're safe, as long as you don't crank it up too high. I couldn't imagine putting 15W into something even as hungry as an HE-6 without an earbleed.


----------



## killyridols

just got my second hand Magni I feeded with some m-audio interface. seems fine for me. one question - is it ok that magni gets really warm over time? ))))


----------



## raybone0566

killyridols said:


> just got my second hand Magni I feeded with some m-audio interface. seems fine for me. one question - is it ok that magni gets really warm over time? ))))


 Can't speak for the magni, but my asgard2 use to get very warm. The owners Manuel states that it will run warm & it's ok.


----------



## Defiant00

killyridols said:


> just got my second hand Magni I feeded with some m-audio interface. seems fine for me. one question - is it ok that magni gets really warm over time? ))))


 
  
 Yes, Magni gets warm.


----------



## manywelps

raybone0566 said:


> killyridols said:
> 
> 
> > just got my second hand Magni I feeded with some m-audio interface. seems fine for me. one question - is it ok that magni gets really warm over time? ))))
> ...


 

 If by warm, you mean painful to keep your hand on, yeah.


----------



## crazychile

killyridols said:


> just got my second hand Magni I feeded with some m-audio interface. seems fine for me. one question - is it ok that magni gets really warm over time? ))))


 

 Every Schiit amp I've ever owned gets really warm. The guys at Schiit say it's perfectly normal.


----------



## amnesiac75

The front of my asgard 2 runs between 90-96 farenheight after being on for a few hours the knob runs about 88-92 so really just warm never hot. My amp sits on top of my audio shelf by itself not stacked on my dac and has a ceiling fan going above it all of the time my guess is that people that say it gets "very hot" have little air flow or have all components close together.


----------



## David Aldrich

A ceiling fan makes a hell of a difference, my Mjolnir goes from warm to the touch to barely warm depending on if my fan is on low or 4-5/6 speed.


----------



## KLJTech

It's also possible that this is the first *true* "Class A" amp they've owned and "Class A" runs very warm to hot.


----------



## hodgjy

I'm a Schiit fanboy, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the fact their top 4 products have been backordered for a long time with no end in sight.


----------



## MWSVette

hodgjy said:


> I'm a Schiit fanboy, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the fact their top 4 products have been backordered for a long time with no end in sight.


 

 +1 I have noticed that too...


----------



## raybone0566

amnesiac75 said:


> The front of my asgard 2 runs between 90-96 farenheight after being on for a few hours the knob runs about 88-92 so really just warm never hot. My amp sits on top of my audio shelf by itself not stacked on my dac and has a ceiling fan going above it all of the time my guess is that people that say it gets "very hot" have little air flow or have all components close together.


Actually that is normal for the amp to run very warm. The chassis of the Asgard is the heat sink.


----------



## StanD

hodgjy said:


> I'm a Schiit fanboy, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the fact their top 4 products have been backordered for a long time with no end in sight.


 
 But that gives Jay's wallet a moment to recover.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

hodgjy said:


> I'm a Schiit fanboy, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the fact their top 4 products have been backordered for a long time with no end in sight.


 
 I got my Ragnarok last week...


----------



## gefski

hodgjy said:


> I'm a Schiit fanboy, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the fact their top 4 products have been backordered for a long time with no end in sight.




Yes, I'd like to have my Yggy by now. But Schiit has been refreshingly candid about their missteps, especially Jason's "...improbable startup..." thread.

And I really like that they're not sending reviewers samples when customer units are backordered. Putting customers ahead of reviewers is A+ in my book.


----------



## money4me247

modi & magni review on cnet: http://www.cnet.com/news/heres-a-pair-of-high-end-yet-affordable-components-from-schiit-audio/


----------



## rovopio

mwsvette said:


> I used these rubber feet for my stack.  They are a little taller than the ones from Schiit.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1430548510&sr=8-3&keywords=3m+rubber+feet


 
  
  


stand said:


> +1 I use the same ones. Not those tiny little cheap Schitty rubber dots.


 
  
 Can I ask you guys something...?
 There are 6 products on that link... which one do you guys use StanD and MWSVette?
 Is it the squared black one? or one of those white cylindrical shape ones?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NG3Z0S/ref=biss_dp_t_asn
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NG60SW/ref=biss_dp_t_asn


----------



## MWSVette

rovopio said:


> Can I ask you guys something...?
> There are 6 products on that link... which one do you guys use StanD and MWSVette?
> Is it the squared black one? or one of those white cylindrical shape ones?
> 
> ...


 

 I use these:
  
 3M Bumpon SJ5023 Black Bumper/Spacer Pad - Square Shaped Bumper - 0.81 in Width x 0.3 in Height 
  
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ/ref=pd_bia_yo_t_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=PNGKXRY88796CR1GZ721


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> Can I ask you guys something...?
> There are 6 products on that link... which one do you guys use StanD and MWSVette?
> Is it the squared black one? or one of those white cylindrical shape ones?
> 
> ...


 
 I use http://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ which is the same as MWSVette gave a link to. These are black square ones. They don't lose adhesion with age or the heat on my Schiit stack. They also provide some room for air circulation.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I use http://www.amazon.com/3M-Bumpon-SJ5023-Bumper-Spacer/dp/B002OTNGPQ which is the same as MWSVette gave a link to. These are black square ones. They don't lose adhesion with age or the heat on my Schiit stack. They also provide some room for air circulation.


 
  
 they don't sell them in local Ace Hardware or Office Supplies section of bookstore, so I'm importing them from Amazon.
 Now to color match... I'm thinking of getting the white cylindrical one.
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NG60SW/
  
 do you think that will do StanD?


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> they don't sell them in local Ace Hardware or Office Supplies section of bookstore, so I'm importing them from Amazon.
> Now to color match... I'm thinking of getting the white cylindrical one.
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NG60SW/
> 
> do you think that will do StanD?


 
 I think you linked to a clear version. They are also smaller and not as tall as the ones I use. I prefer the extra height for air circulation.


----------



## MWSVette

One of my Lyr's had these when it arrived.  I removed them...


----------



## StanD

mwsvette said:


> One of my Lyr's had these when it arrived.  I removed them...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can see why.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mwsvette said:


> One of my Lyr's had these when it arrived.  I removed them...


 
 What Stan said!


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I think you linked to a clear version. They are also smaller and not as tall as the ones I use. I prefer the extra height for air circulation.


 
  
 Hi StanD, I want to ask you about cable.
 So... I'm thinking of getting a new Modi for my office table. And coincide this with Prime Day and having a friend currently in the US works to my favor (in comparison to, as you remember, 40% tax).
  
 The thing is... last month I just ordered a nice $8 Mini to RCA cable for Fiio e10k as DAC to be plugged in to Magni 2 Uber. Last time I bought the PYST RCA cable. I don't think I want to do that again for the time being. (nothing against the Schiit cable, it's just the mini to rca cable are basically new, arrived 5 days ago if I'm not mistaken.)
  
 So... if i buy a new Modi, and planning to plug them to my amps, can I use that Mini to RCA cable and use this kind of adapter?
 http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Stereo-Female-Y-Cable-6-Inch/dp/B000I23TTE/


----------



## MWSVette

rovopio said:


> Hi StanD, I want to ask you about cable.
> So... I'm thinking of getting a new Modi for my office table. And coincide this with Prime Day and having a friend currently in the US works to my favor (in comparison to, as you remember, 40% tax).
> 
> The thing is... last month I just ordered a nice $8 Mini to RCA cable for Fiio e10k as DAC to be plugged in to Magni 2 Uber. Last time I bought the PYST RCA cable. I don't think I want to do that again for the time being. (nothing against the Schiit cable, it's just the mini to rca cable are basically new, arrived 5 days ago if I'm not mistaken.)
> ...


 

 FWIW this is the one I used to connect Fiio E17 to my Lyr:
  
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Premium-Stereo-Female-Plated/dp/B003L14XTO/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1436778259&sr=1-4&keywords=rca+3.5+.6&pebp=1436778262238&perid=0B027NTF34R262D3JDWJ
  
 I have had good luck with the Monoprice cables.  They are good quality and not expensive.


----------



## rovopio

mwsvette said:


> FWIW this is the one I used to connect Fiio E17 to my Lyr:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Premium-Stereo-Female-Plated/dp/B003L14XTO/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1436778259&sr=1-4&keywords=rca+3.5+.6&pebp=1436778262238&perid=0B027NTF34R262D3JDWJ
> 
> I have had good luck with the Monoprice cables.  They are good quality and not expensive.


 
  
 How do you connect your system if I may ask?
 So it goes... PC -> USB -> Fiio E17* -> ? ->* Stereo Female to 2 RCA -> Lyr -> Headphones right?
 What do you connect the fiio e17 and that stereo female cable with (the in-between)?
  
 As for my situation... at the moment I have...
 PC -> USB -> Fiio e10k -> Mini to 2 RCA (link) -> Magni 2 Uber -> Headphones
  
 Now if I'm getting a Modi... I want to be still using that Mini to 2 RCA cable, instead of getting 2 RCA to 2 RCA cables. Can I get away with something like this?
 http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-40424-Stereo-Y-Cable/dp/B001B8QUS6/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1436780289&sr=1-2&keywords=female+mini+to+rca
 And will there be any deteroriation in Signal or Sound Quality or anything of that sort...?
  
 thank you for the help as always guys...


----------



## MWSVette

rovopio said:


> How do you connect your system if I may ask?
> So it goes... PC -> USB -> Fiio E17* -> ? ->* Stereo Female to 2 RCA -> Lyr -> Headphones right?
> What do you connect the fiio e17 and that stereo female cable with (the in-between)?
> 
> ...


 

 The ? is a Fiio E09k desk top amp that my Fiio E17 docks with that I use as a preamp.  The E09k has an RCA preamp out.  In this configuration I use a Pyst RCA cable.
  
 If I was only using my E17 as the dac it has a line out that uses 3.5.  In that configuration I use an Male 3.5 to RCA.
  
 As far as continuing to use the mini to RCA you would need another cable that went RCA to 3.5.  I would not recommend that.  The fewer connections the better.
  
 With the Modi you will want to use RCA to RCA like the Pyst cable or again Monoprice makes a quality cable for less money.
  
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003L1717K/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 Something along the line of:
  
 PC -> USB -> Modi  ->RCA to RCA -> Magni 2 Uber -> Headphones


----------



## rovopio

mwsvette said:


> As far as continuing to use the mini to RCA you would need another cable that went RCA to 3.5.  I would not recommend that.  The fewer connections the better.


 
  
 Another cable that went RCA to 3.5... is this the correct cable?
 http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-40424-Stereo-Y-Cable/dp/B001B8QUS6/
  
 Also.. thank you for the fewer connections the better explanation, I didn't know that going in.


----------



## MWSVette

rovopio said:


> Another cable that went RCA to 3.5... is this the correct cable?
> http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-40424-Stereo-Y-Cable/dp/B001B8QUS6/
> 
> Also.. thank you for the fewer connections the better explanation, I didn't know that going in.


 

 Yes, that would work.


----------



## rovopio

Awesome. Now I'm going to ponder between RCA Cable or that adapter. Or... stay with my fiio e10k dac as my office setup.
  
 decisions decisions...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> Hi StanD, I want to ask you about cable.
> So... I'm thinking of getting a new Modi for my office table. And coincide this with Prime Day and having a friend currently in the US works to my favor (in comparison to, as you remember, 40% tax).
> 
> The thing is... last month I just ordered a nice $8 Mini to RCA cable for Fiio e10k as DAC to be plugged in to Magni 2 Uber. Last time I bought the PYST RCA cable. I don't think I want to do that again for the time being. (nothing against the Schiit cable, it's just the mini to rca cable are basically new, arrived 5 days ago if I'm not mistaken.)
> ...


 
 Connecting the Modi to the Magni requires a different interconnect cable, one that has male RCA plugs at both ends. The one you show is good as an adapter for connecting the male end of a 3mm TRS cable to the Magni, that's good for the FiiO E10K line out, however, you could do that with one cable as seen below (just an example):
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP
 You can connect only one DAC at a time to the Magni. If you wish to switch DACs you will either have to switch (unplug on and plug in the other) cables or get a switch similar to the Schiit SYS and one more cable.


----------



## carterxl

I have on the Modi - Magni stack a very short RCA - RCA cable, 20cm, that also looks pretty good, not may calbles to hide. And as mentioned in one of the earlier posts, additional connectors do for sure not improve sound quality.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> Connecting the Modi to the Magni requires a different interconnect cable, one that has male RCA plugs at both ends. The one you show is good as an adapter for connecting the male end of a 3mm TRS cable to the Magni, that's good for the FiiO E10K line out, however, you could do that with one cable as seen below (just an example):
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP
> You can connect only one DAC at a time to the Magni. If you wish to switch DACs you will either have to switch (unplug on and plug in the other) cables or get a switch similar to the Schiit SYS and one more cable.


 
  
 Yeah i just bought these last month for an office set-up, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008UG6GCC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00, Fiio e10k plugged to the Magni 2U.
  
 At home I'm using a Little Dot amp now. So... I don't know, import took a month,  I just got the cable less than a week ago. Feels like a waste if I have to get another RCA-RCA cable if I want to upgrade from the fiio e10k to the Modi 2 in the office.
  
 I'll be thinking it over while checking out what deals will be going on on Prime Day...


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> Yeah i just bought these last month for an office set-up, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008UG6GCC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00, Fiio e10k plugged to the Magni 2U.
> 
> At home I'm using a Little Dot amp now. So... I don't know, import took a month,  I just got the cable less than a week ago. Feels like a waste if I have to get another RCA-RCA cable if I want to upgrade from the fiio e10k to the Modi 2 in the office.
> 
> I'll be thinking it over while checking out what deals will be going on on Prime Day...


 
 Just figure out the cable terminations that fill your needs. I would also try to keep the interconnect cables as short as possible, however, a couple of feet shouldn't create any issues. Enjoy your Schiit.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> Just figure out the cable terminations that fill your needs. I would also try to keep the interconnect cables as short as possible, however, a couple of feet shouldn't create any issues. Enjoy your Schiit.


 
  
 Thanks MWSVette and StanD!


----------



## voicemaster

I have magni and modi 2 stack. Very happy with the sound coming from them. I hope they can drive my HE1000 when it arrives this Wed.


----------



## ThurstonX

voicemaster said:


> I have magni and modi 2 stack. Very happy with the sound coming from them. I hope they can drive my HE1000 when it arrives this Wed.


 
  
 Blame the insomnia, but all I can see is the supermodel marrying the short nerdy guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 ....
 Checks with the US Supreme Court... yep, "short nerdy guy" not "short nerdy twins" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ...
  
  
 Hope that system synergizes for you.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Blame the insomnia, but all I can see is the supermodel marrying the short nerdy guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Watch it buster, Rangy is a "short nerdy guy."


----------



## voicemaster

LoL. I know the m/m stack won't be optimal for he1000, but hopefully they can drive the hek to at least a comfortable listening level. I have been looking to upgrade my amp and most likely will be from schiit (mjolnir) or cavali audio (liquid carbon). I am pretty new to amp/dac field as the m/m stack was my first amp/dac that I have and I think that's the beauty of this hobby. Just like when I started my IEM hobby, you start from cheap IEMs and upgrade to more and more expensive one.


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> Blame the insomnia, but all I can see is the supermodel marrying the short nerdy guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


stand said:


> Watch it buster, Rangy is a "short nerdy guy."


 
  
 I knew some thin skinned chap would read that the wrong way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  *sigh*  See, it's actually a *compliment *to short nerdy guys that a supermodel would marry them.
  
 ....
 Checks with US Supreme Court again... nope, no marriage to a supermodel for Rangy... yet.
 ....
  
  
@voicemaster: On topic, I am curious about how the upcoming nuptials 'twixt HEKs and M+M stack work out.  Keep us posted.


----------



## voicemaster

I know that's why i start with LoL.


----------



## ThurstonX

voicemaster said:


> I know that's why i start with LoL.


 
  
 Oh, no worries.  I figured you were smart enough to get the joke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  My comment was directed at StanD, which is why I quoted him


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> I knew some thin skinned chap would read that the wrong way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 He knows what you've been posting, sleep with one eye open.


----------



## voicemaster

Hahaha okay. I have a question tho. Let say I am about to upgrade my amp to lyr2, do I need to upgrade my dac also or modi 2 is enough for now?


----------



## superjawes

voicemaster said:


> Hahaha okay. I have a question tho. Let say I am about to upgrade my amp to lyr2, do I need to upgrade my dac also or modi 2 is enough for now?


Only if you want a matching chassis. I think a Modi is probably enough DAC for many people.

Look for a bigger reason to get a Bifrost, like the upgradability.


----------



## dino1962

Just got my Asgard2 from a fellow head-fier. I am trying out a large group of music in the next few days to run through the paces but so far, it is awesome.


----------



## MarcelE

Here a new Asgard2/Modi2Uber owner too.
Got them last Friday and have been listening ever since, only turning them off when I had to sleep. 
They're driving an HE-400 and it's great.
As others, I noticed the HE-400 had a recessed mid freq, most noticable in voices sounding a bit distant,
but somehow the A2 grabs those mids and place them where they belong.
I'm not sure how it does that, I don't think the amp colors the sound but I just think the HE-400 finally
got enough juice to really shine.
As for the heat, yes it gets warm, but I also think it depends on someones heat tolerance, for me it's just
warm - after 4 hours on I can lay my hands on it nicely - but then again I go into hot baths where no one
dares to go in. 
Anyway very happy Schiit owner here.


----------



## mdewire

I just acquired the Lyr 2 a few weeks ago. The Lyr 2 makes all of my headphones sound great. The biggest improvement was how my AKG Q701s sound with the Lyr 2. The Lyr 2 really opened up the sound of the Q701s making them one of my favorite ones to listen to at the moment. I also have Grado RS-1s, and the Audeze LCD X which sound much improved with this amp as well. The Grado and the Audeze's sound good at low gain and the AKGs run on high gain. I like the versatility this amp has. I may get into some tube rolling later as it is still breaking in at this time and I like the sound as is.


----------



## KLJTech

mdewire said:


> I just acquired the Lyr 2 a few weeks ago. The Lyr 2 makes all of my headphones sound great. The biggest improvement was how my AKG Q701s sound with the Lyr 2. The Lyr 2 really opened up the sound of the Q701s making them one of my favorite ones to listen to at the moment. I also have Grado RS-1s, and the Audeze LCD X which sound much improved with this amp as well. The Grado and the Audeze's sound good at low gain and the AKGs run on high gain. I like the versatility this amp has. I may get into some tube rolling later as it is still breaking in at this time and I like the sound as is.


 
  
 I had all but given up on the AKG K701's until I heard them on the Lyr...all of a sudden they were more dynamic and had a lot more punch in the bass, which I didn't think possible with that headphone. Have you tried any IEM's on the Lyr 2? If it would provide a black background (Low Gain) with my W40's, like the Asgard 2 does, I would certainly consider buying the newer version. I use the Lyr for my planar headphones and the Asgard 2 as a preamp in my smaller stereo setup and for driving my B&W P7's and IEM's.


----------



## mdewire

In reference to your question about IEM's I do not own a pair, however I read that one of the improvements made on the Lyr 2 was a better S/N ratio to use them. I know when I pause the music I do not hear any noise or hum of any kind when in the high gain mode with my Q701s.​


----------



## dndliohm

Anyone with Magni 2 interested in an aluminum Uber faceplate ?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/776579/schiit-magni-2u-alum-faceplate-4-magni-2-std-faceplate


----------



## Eric510

Glad someone brought this up because, the other day I tried my JH16's with my Lyr 2 and I had mostly great results... mostly.
  
 If you're running tubes that are a bit on the microphonic side of things, then your CIEMs will exacerbate that. I can literally hear my girlfriend talk to me through the tubes when wearing my CIEMs. When I decide to run my JH16's with the Lyr2, I usually put my stock tubes in because my Telefunken e88cc's are just too microphonic for sensitive CIEMs. 
  
 All that being said, I really like what I'm hearing. I mean, the volume pot is super sensitive; I've got it "cranked" up to like 8 o'clock on the dial, at the most. This amp is incredible overkill for CIEMs... but it sounds really good.


----------



## Hernium

Good lord, just a while ago, while I was relaxing in my cosy space chilling out with my favorite albums, all of a sudden I smelt something odd. 
  
 Turns out my Magni 2 Uber was smoking. 
  
 I wasn't pushing it too hard either, my DT1350s were on duty today. Now the Magni 2 Ubers sound a little weird, like all of a sudden they have greatly reduced brightness from before.
  
 I can only hope this Schiit is covered under the warranty. Sigh.


----------



## iamxLn

deleted


----------



## dino1962

After a few days of having my Asgard2 and putting it and my headphones through their paces a bit some quick impressions.  Very impressive clean and clear sound presentation,  definitely pretty even signature.  Not bass heavy and gives an improvement of both sound quality and instrument separation to all of my headphones. It has improved the bass drive without overdriving the phones.  I was using the headphone jack on my Technics SA-5360 stereo tuner amp.  I would highly commend the Schiit Asgard2 to anyone looking for a really nice lower cost dedicated headphone amp.  It has opened my Shure 840's to the point that they sound very close to open air cans for those times when you need better isolation.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> He knows what you've been posting, sleep with one eye open.


 
  
Hi StanD,
  
so... I imported the 3M Bumpon I ask you suggestion about for my Magni 2Uber.
Once it's arrived, due to excitements, I foolishly put the 3m Bumpon on my Modi 2 instead (at first), and then the Magni 2U after that. The thing is... I currently regret my decision to put them on the Modi 2. I like my Modi 2 slide freely while only the Magni 2U is using the Bumpon.

I tried taking the rubber feet off but it has been 3 hours now and it's already a little tight I can't take it off my Modi 2. Do you have any suggestion on how I can take them off?
hehe 
  
 solved


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> Hi StanD,
> 
> so... I imported the 3M Bumpon I ask you suggestion about for my Magni 2Uber.
> Once it's arrived, due to excitements, I foolishly put the 3m Bumpon on my Modi 2 instead (at first), and then the Magni 2U after that. The thing is... I currently regret my decision to put them on the Modi 2. I like my Modi 2 slide freely while only the Magni 2U is using the Bumpon.
> ...


 
 I assume you got over being too cautious and peeled them off with a little more gusto. Either that or your fired up your blowtorch.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I assume you got over being too cautious and peeled them off with a little more gusto. Either that or your fired up your blowtorch.


 

 I found a superthin ruler and push the heck out of it. Tried regular ruler and my thumb, no dice. But it's solved now


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> I found a superthin ruler and push the heck out of it. Tried regular ruler and my thumb, no dice. But it's solved now


 
 You took a kinder gentler approach, myself, on the other hand would trim it off....


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> You took a kinder gentler approach, myself, on the other hand would trim it off....


 
  
 haha...
  
 hey StanD may I ask you another question? 2 weeks back on another thread, there was somebody who asked about Modi / Magni adapter being warm when both units are off.
  
 I read his post then, but never bothered to check my Magni 2 Uber adapter temp until today.. My Magni 2 Uber adapter apparently indeed gets slightly lukewarm even when the Magni 2 Uber is off. I wasn't aware of this initially and I think that based on my own laptop's adapter temp, that this is normal.
  
 Is it normal for a Magni 2 Uber adapter to get slightly warm when the unit itself is off? How's your adapter doing?
 I plugged my adapters all the time to Outlets and never bother to take them off. Should I take them off or do you think that that's normal?


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> haha...
> 
> hey StanD may I ask you another question? 2 weeks back on another thread, there was somebody who asked about Modi / Magni adapter being warm when both units are off.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not at home right now, however, I don't remember there being any issues. Maybe some others can ring in on this.


----------



## rovopio

stand said:


> I'm not at home right now, however, I don't remember there being any issues. Maybe some others can ring in on this.


 

 I think it was on the Magni / Modi 2 Official thread. I was not subscribed to that one, and I was away a lot for the past month, I think I remember the discussion devolved to Steak and Mcdonalds in the end.
  
 As far as I read them back then, the poster didn't reply anymore after a while, so I don't know what's the conclusion of that question.


----------



## StanD

rovopio said:


> I think it was on the Magni / Modi 2 Official thread. I was not subscribed to that one, and I was away a lot for the past month, I think I remember the discussion devolved to Steak and Mcdonalds in the end.
> 
> As far as I read them back then, the poster didn't reply anymore after a while, so I don't know what's the conclusion of that question.


 
 Hopefully nobody will have to be singing that Jimi Hendrix song, "Somebody's House is Burning Down."


----------



## David Aldrich

The transformer is still attached to the mains wether the amp, DAC or what have you is powered on. It is expected to be above ambient.


----------



## rovopio

david aldrich said:


> The transformer is still attached to the mains wether the amp, DAC or what have you is powered on. It is expected to be above ambient.


 
  
 Sorry I'm not handy (plus non-native). What is mains and where is the transformer? Inside the Magni / Modi or inside the adapter?
  
 Why external 3.5" drive like Seagate Expansion or WD My Book, the adapter is cold then in comparison? (No really I'm just curious, not challenging your point or anything). I assume that Hard Drive adapters have _transformers that is attached to the mains _as well right?


----------



## superjawes

For those not reading the SchiitShow thread, new products have made their debut.

Gungnir now with multibit, plus the multibit upgrade card for current Gungnir owners.

The next product is actually two. Mjolnir 2 now comes with tubes...or a SS tube-alternative, LISST. Bonus, the tubes work and can come with with Lyr 2 (caveats for Lyr 1).

I think the game changer is LISST. Granted, there's only the one model right now, but it effectively offers a pure SS amp between Asgard and Mjolnir, and in future amps, I think that's a great way to roll different sounds. My hope is that a Valhalla set is in the works, too...if only so I can try it 

P.S. Jason: please don't ever use LISST Tubes. That's just as bad as people saying "ATM Machine" and "PIN Number"...


----------



## ThurstonX

superjawes said:


> For those not reading the SchiitShow thread, new products have made their debut.
> 
> Gungnir now with multibit, plus the multibit upgrade card for current Gungnir owners.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up.  The Lyr caveat is interesting.  I have no idea if I'm hearing the noise floor.  I don't think so, but how to tell.  Primary cans in question are HE-500s and HE-560s.  Everything sounds pretty damn dead quiet with the 1959 Hamburg E88CCs I'm running now.  Decisions decisions.


----------



## money4me247

i am glad that I didn't sell my lyr 2 now. wonder if using the LISST tube will allow me to use my lyr 2 for headphone FR measurements. was never able to get accurate FR measurements for headphones with tubes on the lyr.


----------



## Tuco1965

Damn curious about those new tubes. I don't think noise would be an issue with my can collection, but just not sure.

Well I just ordered so I'll answer my own question soon enough.


----------



## magnum703

I think it's enough reading and thinking and is time to buy the lyr2...


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> Damn curious about those new tubes. I don't think noise would be an issue with my can collection, but just not sure.
> 
> Well I just ordered so I'll answer my own question soon enough.


 
  
 I look forward to reading your impressions.  Hope they 'wow' ya


----------



## Mediahound

superjawes said:


> P.S. Jason: please don't ever use LISST Tubes. That's just as bad as people saying "ATM Machine" and "PIN Number"...




I refuse to call them tubes at all. They're really solid state tube inserts.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mediahound said:


> I refuse to call them tubes at all. They're really solid state tube inserts.



Yes they are. Gives you the option of converting Hybrid to SS. SS Tube inserts is correct


----------



## lowdef

Back in the day we called LISSTs "tubesters" or "fetrons"...  really!  I'm old.


----------



## mysticstryk

rovopio said:


> I think it was on the Magni / Modi 2 Official thread. I was not subscribed to that one, and I was away a lot for the past month, I think I remember the discussion devolved to Steak and Mcdonalds in the end.
> 
> As far as I read them back then, the poster didn't reply anymore after a while, so I don't know what's the conclusion of that question.




That was me! Haha

I stopped posting for that reason, people started talking about food. 

My wall plugs still get quite warm, especially the bigger magni plug. I just unplug them when I turn off my stack.


----------



## rovopio

mysticstryk said:


> That was me! Haha
> 
> I stopped posting for that reason, people started talking about food.
> 
> My wall plugs still get quite warm, especially the bigger magni plug. I just unplug them when I turn off my stack.


 
  
 So? Is it normal behavior for them to get warm? I wouldn't say they are warm, but they are not exactly cold...


----------



## mysticstryk

rovopio said:


> So? Is it normal behavior for them to get warm? I wouldn't say they are warm, but they are not exactly cold...


 
  
 I have no idea.  I couldn't get a firm answer on that.


----------



## rovopio

mysticstryk said:


> I have no idea.  I couldn't get a firm answer on that.


 
  
 Actually... another member reply to me a page back (but I couldn't decipher what he meant, being non-native in addition to not being that familiar with electronics)
  


david aldrich said:


> The transformer is still attached to the mains wether the amp, DAC or what have you is powered on. It is expected to be above ambient.


 
  
 Hope that helps @mysticstryk, and if does helps you, do you mind re-explaining to me what the member meant?
 Where is this transformer they are talking about? Is it on the unit or inside the adapter? And what is Mains?
 And by _above ambient, _they basically said it's normal for the adapter to be warm is it?


----------



## mysticstryk

rovopio said:


> Actually... another member reply to me a page back (but I couldn't decipher what he meant, being non-native in addition to not being that familiar with electronics)
> 
> 
> Hope that helps @mysticstryk, and if does helps you, do you mind re-explaining to me what the member meant?
> ...


 
  
 So I did a bit of research on wall warts.  Turns out that most (maybe all) still run in a low power state even when the equipment it is powering is turned off.  
  
 Some people recommend unplugging them to conserve on electric bills.  They may also get just a tiny bit warm due to them not powering down completely, though should not be hot.  If they do get really hot while the equipment is off, it may be defective.


----------



## Oklahoma

rovopio said:


> Actually... another member reply to me a page back (but I couldn't decipher what he meant, being non-native in addition to not being that familiar with electronics)
> 
> 
> Hope that helps @mysticstryk, and if does helps you, do you mind re-explaining to me what the member meant?
> ...


 
 So what is happening is the adapter is what is called a non-switching power adapter which means that no matter if the device is on, off, or even plugged in the adapter is working converting the power and sending it down the cord.  With a switching power supply if the device is off or not plugged in the adapter shuts itself off except for a small amount of power to get the signal to turn back on; these are commonly found in A/V Receivers, TVs, and other electronics you can power on and off with a remote.  
  
 Mains refer to the Main power line in the house or building, example is any wall outlet is connected to the main power line in from the city.  
  
 The transformer is the wall adapter.  The adapter houses a small power transformer similar to ones seen at power sub stations but on a MUCH smaller scale.


----------



## rovopio

oklahoma said:


> So what is happening is the adapter is what is called a non-switching power adapter which means that no matter if the device is on, off, or even plugged in the adapter is working converting the power and sending it down the cord.  With a switching power supply if the device is off or not plugged in the adapter shuts itself off except for a small amount of power to get the signal to turn back on; these are commonly found in A/V Receivers, TVs, and other electronics you can power on and off with a remote.
> 
> Mains refer to the Main power line in the house or building, example is any wall outlet is connected to the main power line in from the city.
> 
> The transformer is the wall adapter.  The adapter houses a small power transformer similar to ones seen at power sub stations but on a MUCH smaller scale.


 
  
 Thank you. I never paid attention to adapter temperature, but glad to know that warm adapter is normal and I can just plug it in all the time.
 I'm too lazy to take them off my power outlets.


----------



## Jethrosang

Given that schiit places quite an emphasis on stacking, is there anyone willing to showcase the record height of schiit stack? Made out of all schiits with the same size (Wyrd, Mani, Loki, Modi, SYS and then magni).


----------



## rmullins08

draygonn said:


> Schiit Stack has arrived!


 
  
 I know I have seen a bigger stack (want to say 6) but this is the largest I see in this thread.


----------



## rmullins08

http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/3870#post_11063944


----------



## superjawes

rmullins08 said:


> I know I have seen a bigger stack...


That's what she said!


----------



## MattTCG

So I guess that Schiit have a few orders to fill after the big show this weekend. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'm in for a GMB. Anxiously awaiting a shipping notification...


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> So I guess that Schiit have a few orders to fill after the big show this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Me too. I ordered both the new Gungnir and Mjolnir. I keep checking my email like every few minutes to look for a shipping notification. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It said 'in stock, ships in 1-3 days' so I guess I shouldn't get to0 antsy about it. Hopefully they do really have them and ship in that time frame. 
  
UPDATE: Just got the 'shipped' email! 10:30AM Monday morning, order packed and going out today, for order placed over the weekend. Very cool!


----------



## crazychile

I'm saving for a GMB and won't be able to order one for a few weeks. Unfortunately by then there will probably be a 2 month backorder.


----------



## MattTCG

mediahound said:


> Me too. I ordered both the new Gungnir and Mjolnir. I keep checking my email like every few minutes to look for a shipping notification.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is an email the notification method and not from the site? I have no email yet.


----------



## MattTCG

And just like that, I'm shipped!!


----------



## Mediahound

matttcg said:


> Is an email the notification method and not from the site? I have no email yet.


 
  
 I got the email but I guess it doesn't mean it actually went out yet. They still have to be given to FedEx.


----------



## Tuco1965

No ship notice yet for my Schiit LISST. So if Schiit ships the Schiit LISST right away then they aren't on my Schiit list, but then again they couldn't be on it unless I had it, which would mean they wouldn't be on it.


----------



## slayerming2

NVM


----------



## Mediahound

Mine have been picked up. I should have them Wednesday. Good day to work from home


----------



## JimJ

superjawes said:


> That's what she said!


 
  
 Waiting for a Gungnir or Ygg owner to come here and say it's not the height, but the width... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I guess I can post in here now. Received my (original model) Modi last week. Does all I need out of a DAC for now, didn't need any of the optical or coax inputs just yet...maybe someday.


----------



## Oklahoma

Yeah it looks like they e-mail you the shipping notice with tracking number as soon as yours is ready to go and you can track it once fed ex picks it up later in the day.  Mine shipped out today as well and should have them Wednesday as well.


----------



## rovopio

Anybody tried windows 10 yet? does it play good with Schiit?


----------



## BobFiggins

rovopio said:


> Anybody tried windows 10 yet? does it play good with Schiit?


 
  
 USB worked, but optical only worked on the left channel (right channel seemed to be at 50% volume). Even after correcting the balance it didn't sound right. 
  
 Ended up reverting to Windows 7, the DAC I'm borrowing only has optical. Using a Asus Impact VII board (I think that's it). Even after reinstalling all the audio drivers it didn't seem to affect anything.


----------



## MattTCG

rovopio said:


> Anybody tried windows 10 yet? does it play good with Schiit?


 
  
 I had no trouble with Win10 and the drivers for the original gungnir.


----------



## rovopio

bobfiggins said:


> USB worked, but optical only worked on the left channel (right channel seemed to be at 50% volume). Even after correcting the balance it didn't sound right.
> 
> Ended up reverting to Windows 7, the DAC I'm borrowing only has optical. Using a Asus Impact VII board (I think that's it). Even after reinstalling all the audio drivers it didn't seem to affect anything.


 
  
 I didn't take into account motherboard drivers. Hmm... windows 10 sounds reaally tempting (and free), maybe I'll think it over the next few days.


----------



## mysticstryk

rovopio said:


> I didn't take into account motherboard drivers. Hmm... windows 10 sounds reaally tempting (and free), maybe I'll think it over the next few days.


 
  
 Keep in mind it is a new OS, so bugs and glitches can be quite common at times.  It is why I usually wait out a new windows release for several months.  That free upgrade is good for up to a year.
  
 However, Win 10 is pretty stable compared to the state Vista and 8 launched as.


----------



## rovopio

mysticstryk said:


> Keep in mind it is a new OS, so bugs and glitches can be quite common at times.  It is why I usually wait out a new windows release for several months.  That free upgrade is good for up to a year.
> 
> However, Win 10 is pretty stable compared to the state Vista and 8 launched as.


 
  
 8 to 8.1 was particularly pain-free for me, which is why I'm basing my decision based on that particular experience.


----------



## Tuco1965

I've also been using Windows 10 without any issues.


----------



## mysticstryk

rovopio said:


> 8 to 8.1 was particularly pain-free for me, which is why I'm basing my decision based on that particular experience.




Maybe it was just me then. I didn't have a pleasant experience until 8.1


----------



## Tuco1965

8.1 to 10 upgrade was very smooth and trouble free for me. Everything worked as usual.


----------



## mysticstryk

tuco1965 said:


> 8.1 to 10 upgrade was very smooth and trouble free for me. Everything worked as usual.




That's really good to hear, I've got my upgrade locked in, just have to click go.


----------



## Tuco1965

I figured nothing to lose since you can roll back within the first month.


----------



## mcteague

I went from Windows 7 to 10 and had a few issues. Could not open photos at all, sort of a path not found error. The thumbnail clearly showed the photo and I could open them via Photoshop. I had to reset the file extension default program. I also had no sound even though it showed working in device manager. Searched and there were no Win10 audio drivers so I reinstalled the Win7 one, the same version that was already installed, and that resolved the issue. Other than that, smooth sailing!
  
 Tim


----------



## RickB

Schiit has a specific Windows 10 USB driver available on their site now.


----------



## mysticstryk

As I await the next sale on an hd650, I'm really enjoying my hd595 with me new modi/magni stack. Noticing an increase in depth and soundstage for sure. Probably more the dac than the amp though that I'm noticing. Finally getting a much cleaner sound because of it.

My synth wave music is also thumping a bit harder.


----------



## Tuco1965

rickb said:


> Schiit has a specific Windows 10 USB driver available on their site now.




Interesting because I never upgraded the driver when upgrading to Windows 10 from 8.1. It just worked. I wonder if Windows upgraded the driver itself?


----------



## RickB

tuco1965 said:


> Interesting because I never upgraded the driver when upgrading to Windows 10 from 8.1. It just worked. I wonder if Windows upgraded the driver itself?




The 8.1 driver worked for me, also. I just upgraded to be up to date.


----------



## Tuco1965

So you installed the Windows 10 driver from Schiit then?


----------



## Angular Mo

Three-Questions;
 1) Is TIDAL considered DSD?  I ask because IF it is, THEN I would buy the Loki.
  
 2) Does the Vali pair well sonically with the Bifrost Uber?  I ask because I want to sample a bit (puns intended) of Tube-love, and am not ready to make the leap to a Lyr2.  Were I to buy the Asgard, then I likely would never taste a tube.
  
 3) Do the Wyrd, Loki, and Vali make a neatly-appearing Schiit stack?
  
 thank you!
  
 Mo.


----------



## Mediahound

angular mo said:


> 1) Is TIDAL considered DSD?  I ask because IF it is, THEN I would buy the Loki.


 
  
 Not by a long shot.


----------



## RickB

Yes. Works the same as the Windows 8 driver.


----------



## crazychile

> Originally Posted by *Angular Mo*
> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 2) Does the Vali pair well sonically with the Bifrost Uber?  I ask because I want to sample a bit (puns intended) of Tube-love, and am not ready to make the leap to a Lyr2.  Were I to buy the Asgard, then I likely would never taste a tube.


 
 I'll answer that by saying that I noticed a more dramatic improvement going from the Modi to The Bifrost Uber, than I did by upgrading from the Vali to the Lyr 2. I was expecting the opposite. So yes, a Vali/Bifrost combo should sound really good as long as you don't need the extra juice that the Lyr 2 has.


----------



## Tuco1965

rickb said:


> Yes. Works the same as the Windows 8 driver.




Thanks I'll give it a go.


----------



## Matro5

mysticstryk said:


> As I await the next sale on an hd650, I'm really enjoying my hd595 with me new modi/magni stack. Noticing an increase in depth and soundstage for sure. Probably more the dac than the amp though that I'm noticing. Finally getting a much cleaner sound because of it.
> 
> My synth wave music is also thumping a bit harder.


 
  
 Where does the 650 typically go on sale and for how much? For some reason getting very curious about them.


----------



## Oklahoma

matro5 said:


> Where does the 650 typically go on sale and for how much? For some reason getting very curious about them.


 
 It is Sennheiser so it can be hit or miss with sales as they usually keep pretty good price control with their dealers.  Off hand I don't really remember seeing them on sale directly; I just remember the black Friday a couple years ago Sennheiser directly put them on sale on their website for like 200 or 250, but I haven't seen that since.  I think Best Buy has done sales of them occasionally and other places have but I don't think they are on any set rotation or anything.  Except the HD700's which always seem to be on sale.


----------



## mysticstryk

matro5 said:


> Where does the 650 typically go on sale and for how much? For some reason getting very curious about them.


 
  
  


oklahoma said:


> It is Sennheiser so it can be hit or miss with sales as they usually keep pretty good price control with their dealers.  Off hand I don't really remember seeing them on sale directly; I just remember the black Friday a couple years ago Sennheiser directly put them on sale on their website for like 200 or 250, but I haven't seen that since.  I think Best Buy has done sales of them occasionally and other places have but I don't think they are on any set rotation or anything.  Except the HD700's which always seem to be on sale.


 
  
 Check slickdeals.net.  This year they went on sale for around $300 at least 3-4 times.  Buysonic had them for $300 a few days ago but I missed it.
  
 Adorama used to have a bunch of sales.  Right now they are getting in the habit of bundling the HD600 or 650 with 2-300 dollars worth of extra equipment (amps, speakers, etc).
  
 I only need the headphones though, so I'm waiting for them to drop to $350 or lower.


----------



## Matro5

mysticstryk said:


> Check slickdeals.net ( lots of useful info)


 


oklahoma said:


> (lots of useful info)


 
  
 thanks! I'll set up an alert.


----------



## mysticstryk

matro5 said:


> thanks! I'll set up an alert.


 
  
 Which reminds me, what does everyone use to set up deal alerts?
  
 Usually I just get online and slickdeals and a couple other websites manually every day.


----------



## BobFiggins

mysticstryk said:


> Which reminds me, what does everyone use to set up deal alerts?
> 
> Usually I just get online and slickdeals and a couple other websites manually every day.


 
  
 For Amazon I use the camelcamelcamel Chrome extension. You set the prices for new, used, and third party used, and whether you get an alert for it via email.


----------



## mysticstryk

matro5 said:


> thanks! I'll set up an alert.


 
  
 They are $349 right now on buysonic.  Price only lasts another 1hr 19mins.


----------



## magnum703

Just ordered my first dac and amp combo, lyr2 and uber bifrost. What did I get myself into?!


----------



## crazychile

magnum703 said:


> Just ordered my first dac and amp combo, lyr2 and uber bifrost. What did I get myself into?!


 

 I own the same combo, you should be very happy.


----------



## Pokemonn

Hi
 I live in Tokyo Japan.
 I have just purchased Schiit Vali. 
 and now trying to purchase Schiit tube amps Valhalla2.
 Please let me know about Valhalla2.
 Does Valhalla2 can run at Japanese AC100V power???
  
 Thank you.


----------



## windoge89

pokemonn said:


> Hi
> I live in Tokyo Japan.
> I have just purchased Schiit Vali.
> and now trying to purchase Schiit tube amps Valhalla2.
> ...


 
 It seems like on their website it only takes 115V or 230v depending on which one you get. Perhaps there's a 100v to 115v step-up adapter you could get somewhere?
 I think this would work: http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/69361/


----------



## ThurstonX

pokemonn said:


> Hi
> I live in Tokyo Japan.
> I have just purchased Schiit Vali.
> and now trying to purchase Schiit tube amps Valhalla2.
> ...


 
  
 You should just email Schiit directly.  schiit.com


----------



## Pokemonn

windoge89 said:


> It seems like on their website it only takes 115V or 230v depending on which one you get. Perhaps there's a 100v to 115v step-up adapter you could get somewhere?
> I think this would work: http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/products/detail/item/69361/


 

 Thank you for reply!
 I searched Transformer at Amazon.co.jp, And yes I found some cheap stepup adapters. I will purchase it.
 Thank you for your help! I will buy Valhalla2. Thanks!


----------



## windoge89

No problem. Does anyone know whether the Magni pairs well with HD600s? I've been considering getting one for a while.


----------



## superjawes

windoge89 said:


> No problem. Does anyone know whether the Magni pairs well with HD600s? I've been considering getting one for a while.



Magni 1: good
Magni 2 Uber: better
Valhalla: best

Yeah, I prefer a tubey synergy with my HD600, but Magni will easily get the job done.


----------



## Tuco1965

I have an original Magni and it pairs just fine with the 600s.


----------



## mysticstryk

windoge89 said:


> No problem. Does anyone know whether the Magni pairs well with HD600s? I've been considering getting one for a while.




It will drive them just fine. As far as synergy goes, I'm not sure. I'm getting my hd650 in the mail any day now, and I will be pairing it with my magni/modi stack.


----------



## Tuco1965

I just had 2 different machines on 2 different networks catch Win32/Dorv.A!rfn trojan in the Windows 10 driver and the 2 different Windows 7 & 8 drivers just downloaded from Schiit.com/drivers. Windows Defender on one machine and Microsoft Security Essentials on another. I don't know if these are false positives, but it doesn't appear to be. I just sent an email to Schiit. Has anyone else seen this?


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> I just had 2 different machines on 2 different networks catch Win32/Dorv.A!rfn trojan in the Windows 10 driver and the 2 different Windows 7 & 8 drivers just downloaded from Schiit.com/drivers. Windows Defender on one machine and Microsoft Security Essentials on another. I don't know if these are false positives, but it doesn't appear to be. I just sent an email to Schiit. Has anyone else seen this?


 
  
 I just downloaded both, then scanned both in Zip form using an up-to-date avast!, and then the folders and all files after extracting.  No threats found.


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks for checking. Maybe they are false positives then. Both Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials are up to date also.


----------



## ThurstonX

tuco1965 said:


> Thanks for checking. Maybe they are false positives then. Both Windows Defender and Microsoft Security Essentials are up to date also.


 
  
 I didn't realize they have newer versions, so thanks for getting me there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Hopefully others using different anti-virus programs will report back.


----------



## Tuco1965

Yeah I hope a few others can test this and see what is going on. I can't be the only one using Microsoft anti malware programs.


----------



## iamxLn

Even Microsoft has said windows security is not a sufficient program. Better download avira and malwarebytes. They're both free.


----------



## Tuco1965

iamxln said:


> Even Microsoft has said windows security is not a sufficient program. Better download avira and malwarebytes. They're both free.




I have Malwarebytes Pro. To be honest I never encounter viruses or trojans on my machines. Both Defender and Essentials have worked well for me over the years.

Nick @ Schiit replied that they are looking into this and believe it is a false positive.


----------



## deepfreeze

tuco1965 said:


> I have Malwarebytes Pro. To be honest I never encounter viruses or trojans on my machines. Both Defender and Essentials have worked well for me over the years.
> 
> Nick @ Schiit replied that they are looking into this and believe it is a false positive.


 
  
 Just so you don't feel crazy, this just happened to me as well.


----------



## MattTCG

tuco1965 said:


> I just had 2 different machines on 2 different networks catch Win32/Dorv.A!rfn trojan in the Windows 10 driver and the 2 different Windows 7 & 8 drivers just downloaded from Schiit.com/drivers. Windows Defender on one machine and Microsoft Security Essentials on another. I don't know if these are false positives, but it doesn't appear to be. I just sent an email to Schiit. Has anyone else seen this?


 
  
 I saw the EXACT same thing.


----------



## Tuco1965

Thanks for the feedback people.


----------



## RickB

I scanned the drivers with both Webroot and Malwarebytes and they both identified no threats.


----------



## RickB

I just scanned the zip file of the Windows 10 driver on Jotti's Viruscan and 1 out of 21 scanners reported malware.
  
 https://virusscan.jotti.org/en-US/filescanjob/n6vnm4cdo8


----------



## john57

And that one scanner that reported a threat states that it found; PUA.Packed.PECompact-1
  
 PUA.Packed.PECompact-1 is a fake malware detection displayed by rogue security software. Rogueware will display fake system scanners and report threats such as PUA.Packed.PECompact-1 to coerce users into purchasing it.


----------



## RCBinTN

Just found this thread and subbed.  I've owned Schiit equipment for a couple years.  A2, BiFrost, Gungnir, Mjolnir, and Wyrd.  Now of course looking at the GMB upgrade.  I'm sure there is a ton of interesting info in the 702 pages here, will review at my leasure...just wanted to say Hi.


----------



## Tuco1965

Welcome fellow Schiit head!


----------



## bretemm

Who's going to get some of the new Schiit came out with? Would getting the Valhalla2 with the solid state tubes be good?


----------



## rmullins08

bretemm said:


> Who's going to get some of the new Schiit came out with? Would getting the Valhalla2 with the solid state tubes be good?


 

 From schiit's faq for LISST
  
Hey, this is cool! Can I use them anywhere a 6922 is used?
 Not necessarily. We designed these tubes specifically for our tube hybrid products—Mjolnir 2, Lyr 2, and Lyr. Those are the only products we guarantee they’ll work in.
But I can try them in other stuff, right?
Again, no guarantees. They might not work. They might get too hot. They might fail. Don’t blame us—we’re being very clear on LISST being for Schiit devices only. 
 
How about Valhalla? Valhalla 2?
Valhalla 2 sure, but why?


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> Who's going to get some of the new Schiit came out with? Would getting the Valhalla2 with the solid state tubes be good?




Two pairs of LISST tubes are going to cost you $200. At that point, you've basically paid for a real bad Asgard 2.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I'll just sick with the regular tubes then, I'm limited to IEMs, so would the valhala2 be great for a tube sound with IEMs? I might get the klipsch X11i soon 





theblueprint said:


> Two pairs of LISST tubes are going to cost you $200. At that point, you've basically paid for a real bad Asgard 2.


----------



## Tuco1965

Just got my shipping notice that LISST have been shipped. Woo Hoo!


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone use Klipsch IEMs with Schiit? How well do they sound? I'm thinking of upgrading to the klipsch X11 from my klipsch something g3


----------



## Eric510

bretemm said:


> Ok, I'll just sick with the regular tubes then, I'm limited to IEMs, so would the valhala2 be great for a tube sound with IEMs? I might get the klipsch X11i soon


 
 Isn't the Valhalla 2 meant more for higher impedance cans? I sold my Valhalla 2 and bought a new Lyr 2 to not only drive my Audezes but also run my JH16s every once and a while... Turns out the JH16s were still a bit too sensitive for the Lyr 2. I don't fault the Lyr 2 for that, I fault vacuum tubes... Having purchased the LISSTs, my Lyr 2 has turned into an extremely versatile amp. Tubes used with my cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, LISSTs used with my CIEMS.


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> Does anyone use Klipsch IEMs with Schiit? How well do they sound? I'm thinking of upgrading to the klipsch X11 from my klipsch something g3


 
  
 I don't have the X11's, but I do have the Klipsch X7 and X10's and I use them a lot for audiobooks in my office system because they're very comfortable. Both the X7 and X10 work very well with the Asgard 2, no background noise at all and it has more juice than they'll ever need. 
  
 Do the X11 use a different driver than the X10? The reason I ask is there have been great prices on Klipsch IEM's at Amazon lately...paid about $40 for the X7's and you'll sometimes find the X10's for about $120.


----------



## bretemm

I have found acouple high impedance IEMs, I might get acouple pairs of them soon, would a high impedance iem work? Thanks and what's the diffrence now using the LISST Tubes? 





eric510 said:


> Isn't the Valhalla 2 meant more for higher impedance cans? I sold my Valhalla 2 and bought a new Lyr 2 to not only drive my Audezes but also run my JH16s every once and a while... Turns out the JH16s were still a bit too sensitive for the Lyr 2. I don't fault the Lyr 2 for that, I fault vacuum tubes... Having purchased the LISSTs, my Lyr 2 has turned into an extremely versatile amp. Tubes used with my cans  , LISSTs used with my CIEMS.


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, I'm wanting to have a wider rang for sound and quality to use with my Schiit (magi modi), I might get the Bifrost latter on, but how is the new modi über, good? With the new connections to switch, would I be able to get a aux cord and listen to my radio or iphone directly through Schiit? 





kljtech said:


> I don't have the X11's, but I do have the Klipsch X7 and X10's and I use them a lot for audiobooks in my office system because they're very comfortable. Both the X7 and X10 work very well with the Asgard 2, no background noise at all and it has more juice than they'll ever need.
> 
> Do the X11 use a different driver than the X10? The reason I ask is there have been great prices on Klipsch IEM's at Amazon lately...paid about $40 for the X7's and you'll sometimes find the X10's for about $120.


----------



## bretemm

With being limited to IEM"s, 
What's the highest/best Schiit that would be good to use? 
Would I hear a good enough diffrence/quality of I got the valhalla2 for IEMs?


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> With being limited to IEM"s,
> What's the highest/best Schiit that would be good to use?
> Would I hear a good enough diffrence/quality of I got the valhalla2 for IEMs?


 
  
 I use the Gungnir and Asgard 2 in my office and the A2 does a great job with IEM's...I've used several Klipsch (X5, X7 and X10's) and my Westone W40's with it. I've never tried the Valhalla 2 though I've only read great things about, yet I'm not sure that it's the best choice for lower impedance IEM's. I see that it has an output impedance of 14 Ohms on high gain and 3.5 Ohms on low gain. Last year I used a Parasound Zdac in my bedroom setup and its headphone amp has a 10 Ohm output impedance and it made my 16 Ohm Klipsch sound lifeless. The Zdac's headphone amp isn't nearly as good as "any" of the stand alone Schitt amps, but I do believe that the higher output impedance hurt its performance with the Klipsch IEM's.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, 
So in your opinion, 
Would klipsch X11 or something be good to get? Or could shure- Be better? 
i havnt heard tube sound but I read reviews that the tubes bring out guitar more and quality. I found 20ohm IEMs that I like, 
Is it better to get higher or lower ohms?
Thanks! 





kljtech said:


> I use the Gungnir and Asgard 2 in my office and the A2 does a great job with IEM's...I've used several Klipsch (X5, X7 and X10's) and my Westone W40's with it. I've never tried the Valhalla 2 though I've only read great things about, yet I'm not sure that it's the best choice for lower impedance IEM's. I see that it has an output impedance of 14 Ohms on high gain and 3.5 Ohms on low gain. Last year I used a Parasound Zdac in my bedroom setup and its headphone amp has a 10 Ohm output impedance and it made my 16 Ohm Klipsch sound lifeless. The Zdac's headphone amp isn't nearly as good as "any" of the stand alone Schitt amps, but I do believe that the higher output impedance hurt its performance with the Klipsch IEM's.


----------



## KLJTech

I haven't heard the Klipsch X11's...not sure if they're worth the extra cash over the much cheaper (at Amazon) X10's. I use my X10's or X7's for audiobooks because they're very comfortable, but I much prefer my Westones (very comfortable as well) for music listening. The X11's like the X10's are single armature driver IEM's and in my opinion the X11's are priced a bit high for a single driver...then again you may love them. Just make sure that you have the choice to return the IEM's if you're not pleased with them. 
  
 I think the Asgard 2 would be a great choice for you, that or the less expensive Magni 2. Good luck!


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! I have the magni and Modi right now and Want a tube sound or the best by Schiit that works well with IEMs because I'm stuck with IEMs 





kljtech said:


> I haven't heard the Klipsch X11's...not sure if they're worth the extra cash over the much cheaper (at Amazon) X10's. I use my X10's or X7's for audiobooks because they're very comfortable, but I much prefer my Westones (very comfortable as well) for music listening. The X11's like the X10's are single armature driver IEM's and in my opinion the X11's are priced a bit high for a single driver...then again you may love them. Just make sure that you have the choice to return the IEM's if you're not pleased with them.
> 
> I think the Asgard 2 would be a great choice for you, that or the less expensive Magni 2. Good luck!


----------



## artur9

How good/revealing/etc would one's amps & speakers have to be to hear the difference between the Bifrost Uber and the Gungnir multibit?   
  
 Similarly, the GMB and the Yggdrasil?
  
 Just wondering where up the scale I need to be looking.  I currently have a Bifrost Uber.


----------



## SuperU

artur9 said:


> How good/revealing/etc would one's amps & speakers have to be to hear the difference between the Bifrost Uber and the Gungnir multibit?
> 
> Similarly, the GMB and the Yggdrasil?
> 
> Just wondering where up the scale I need to be looking.  I currently have a Bifrost Uber.


 
 +1
  
 I realize this has a lot to do with each of our individual ears, but I would love it someone would try to give a good answer to that other than "listen to them for yourself" - which obviously is the best way to go. In my case it is not practical due to living outside the US and in the middle of nowhere. So I depend on good reviews and answers to make purchases. So far it has worked out real well for me thanks to many who post great answers and comprehensive reviews.


----------



## Billheiser

Talk to a friend or family or doctor or a "hot line" for support please. A consumer product company isn't the problem here.


----------



## Billheiser

aegruin said:


> Well, it is. My friend bought the Modi 2 Uber for me from his account, but I wrote my name to shipping thing. So they voided warranty because of that. They tought a second hand sale involved. Simple misunderstanding. But they are not willing to fix it. I don't know what to do...



Try to put it in perspective. We shouldn't stake our lives on mere products. Things break or wear out or go obsolete all the time. There will always be problems with boxes and gadgets, they are not guaranteed to make or keep us happy.


----------



## DjBobby

aegruin said:


> Well, it is. My friend bought the Modi 2 Uber for me from his account, but I wrote my name to shipping thing. So they voided warranty because of that. They tought a second hand sale involved. Simple misunderstanding. But they are not willing to fix it. I don't know what to do...


 

 Why don't you ask your friend from whose account it was bought, to do it for you?


----------



## MWSVette

djbobby said:


> Why don't you ask your friend from whose account it was bought, to do it for you?


 
  
  
 +1 well said...


----------



## bretemm

With the valhalla2 and tubes, who has one and regularly changes tubes for a different sound? I found some tubes online and I might get the valhalla2 soon.


----------



## MarcelE

billheiser said:


> Talk to a friend or family or doctor or a "hot line" for support please. A consumer product company isn't the problem here.



 

That was my ideas as well. 
I understand that equipment that breaks down is not what we want but it happens (and if it didn't happen yet, some day it will).
I had a plasma screen, 3 yr warranty and you've guessed it, after 4 yrs it broke down. Bought a new one...I don't go out every night so I could save up some money to buy it.
I sure hope my Asgard 2 and Modi2Uber will stay with me for long, but eventually it will break down and I'm already 'saving up' for that time.
Hope things work out with Schiit.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

aegruin said:


> I did. I'll just copy paste the reply;
> 
> "the warranty is void, so none of the costs are covered"
> 
> edit: They have the names and serial numbers. We can't just send it. They would notice. Then I asked what happens if my friend sends the device. This is the reply of this.


 

 If something is sent in under warranty by the original purchaser, it's covered, period. If your product was purchased by a friend, who is the original purchaser and is now trying to send it in for service, have him contact amy@schiit.com and it will be covered.


----------



## bretemm

Valhalla2, can I use a headphone jack to rca cord to the valhalla2? I'm going to first use it with my iPod before I get a astell&kern, but should it work? Thanks (I have the magi and modi right now)


----------



## Tuco1965

You can use it but will be double amping. Do they make a line out connector for your iPod? If so, that would be a much better way to connect the two.


----------



## bretemm

I'm not sure, I could use the modi with the valhalla2 for now or possibly get the SYS as well to switch better, the valhalla has a rca input and then a rca output 





tuco1965 said:


> You can use it but will be double amping. Do they make a line out connector for your iPod? If so, that would be a much better way to connect the two.


----------



## rmullins08

bretemm said:


> I'm not sure, I could use the modi with the valhalla2 for now or possibly get the SYS as well to switch better, the valhalla has a rca input and then a rca output


 
  
 Which type of iPod do you have?


----------



## bretemm

Well I have a iphone then I'm wanting to get a astell&kern ak100ii possibly latter on 





rmullins08 said:


> Which type of iPod do you have?


----------



## RickB

bretemm said:


> Well I have a iphone then I'm wanting to get a astell&kern ak100ii possibly latter on


 
  
 You need a lightning to 30 pin cable that Apple sells. Then you would need a line-out dock to RCA cable to hook it up to the amp.
  
 Edit: the Apple iPhone lightning dock would be more elegant for home use. Then you would just need a 3.5mm to RCA cable.


----------



## Tuco1965

If the phone has a lightning connector you could use a lightning to usb cable and feed your Modi and then Valhalla. I use one on my iPad Air to feed either my Bifrost or Modi. Lots of ways to get the results you want as others have suggested.


----------



## RCBinTN

aegruin said:


> Woah.. Jason Stoddard's himself.. Thank you. I will do that.


 
  
 Yea, they're a good company.
 They even monitor the Head-Fi posts to take care of their customers.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but what about the rca input on the valhalla? Couldn't I just use a headphone to rca "2 cord color"? Like this: "--<" 





tuco1965 said:


> If the phone has a lightning connector you could use a lightning to usb cable and feed your Modi and then Valhalla. I use one on my iPad Air to feed either my Bifrost or Modi. Lots of ways to get the results you want as others have suggested.


----------



## Tuco1965

bretemm said:


> Ok, but what about the rca input on the valhalla? Couldn't I just use a headphone to rca "2 cord color"? Like this: "--<"




Absolutely you could. I was just giving you an option that could pass the digital audio through to a Dac.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





tuco1965 said:


> Absolutely you could. I was just giving you an option that could pass the digital audio through to a Dac.


----------



## bretemm

I got the entry level amp and dac, but before I bought them I was emailing "Nick T" about some questions with magnets as well as connecting questions with my marantz and combinations with other Schiit, and he was very helpfull and emailed back pretty much the same day I messaged Schiit. 
Haha, when was the last time you saw the president of Klipsch or Marantz take the time to support customers like Schiit does? 
Schiit is great,
 I'm looking to get more products soon. 


rcbintn said:


> Yea, they're a good company.
> They even monitor the Head-Fi posts to take care of their customers.


----------



## DjBobby

bretemm said:


> I got the entry level amp and dac, but before I bought them I was emailing "Nick T" about some questions with magnets as well as connecting questions with my marantz and combinations with other Schiit, and he was very helpfull and emailed back pretty much the same day I messaged Schiit.
> Haha, when was the last time you saw the president of Klipsch or Marantz take the time to support customers like Schiit does?
> Schiit is great,
> I'm looking to get more products soon.


 

 I got my Schiit exactly because of Marantz  After I wrote to Marantz's tech asking for the headphone output impedance of the amp, and got the answer that it is surprisingly high 210 Ohms (?!), I started immediately looking for a near-zero amp. After narrowing my choice to a few brands, Nick T was answering my questions so quick and helpful, that I forgot about all the others. They clearly won.


----------



## bretemm

Nice, 
I tried the modi with the rca inputs on my marantz and it only supports 2.1 channels, 
But the sound was good tho. 
I found Schiit just randomly watching videos about better stereo setups, and then someone said "don't judge by the name-but Schiit is great" so I took a screenshot, then weeks later relooked at it, emailed Nick T for a week about some concerns I had about a medical devise, but everything was good, so I got them haha. 


djbobby said:


> I got my Schiit exactly because of Marantz  After I wrote to Marantz's tech asking for the headphone output impedance of the amp, and got the answer that it is surprisingly high 210 Ohms (?!), I started immediately looking for a near-zero amp. After narrowing my choice to a few brands, Nick T was answering my questions so quick and helpful, that I forgot about all the others. They clearly won.


----------



## kaboomooo

*In the beginning there is only darkness but GOD said let there be light! and now we have schiit *


----------



## artur9

artur9 said:


> How good/revealing/etc would one's amps & speakers have to be to hear the difference between the Bifrost Uber and the Gungnir multibit?
> 
> Similarly, the GMB and the Yggdrasil?
> 
> Just wondering where up the scale I need to be looking.  I currently have a Bifrost Uber.


 
  
 Bump.  Or should I just count on sending my retirement money to Schiit?


----------



## Aegruin

I want to make a suggestion to Schiit. Please extend this warranty policy of yours. This will make people go away.
  
 For example; 
 A friend of mine wants to buy Schiit stack. And he has a friend in US. My friend gives the money to his friend to buy the stack and bring it to his current country when he comes. When he does that the warranty is on his friend and my frined doesn't have any warranty.
 Because of this policy, he won't buy Schiit on someone else's name. He will buy anything else because he has the money for stack and he doesn't have the money for shipping and VAT taxes.
  
 Or another example and this is a very true one;
 I have a sister in Germany and she will come to Turkey 6 months later. She is using her on-board to listen music and I thought she would be very happy if I buy a Fulla to her as a gift. But if I do that on my name the warranty will be void and I cannot help her about the warranty from another country. I can't give her the money and say "Go buy fulla, it is a gift". It sould be a gift and it should be a surprise but if I do that there will be no warranty.
  
 I suggest you to find a way about this. I don't know how.


----------



## Alex Martin

Our warranties do not transfer to the second and subsequent owners.  The recipient of a gift is considered the first owner if the gift is given in a reasonable time.  Six months later is questionable.  We don't want to be on the hook for broken Schiit that gets broken because it was sold to five or six people in four years.  A lot of these transactions Aegruin describes in his suggestions are pretty questionable.  They seem designed to avoid paying duties and taxes- a gift is a gift but a grey market transaction to avoid paying VAT or import duties is very questionable.
  
 We usually repair a few units a month that are received damaged by the second, third, or fourth owner.  We don't gouge with our repair bills, the cost is often less than 10 dollars for our small products with the price increasing based on the size, complexity of the product, and type of damage.  We've had units that have been struck by lightning, a cat urinated into an Asgard, we had one guy whose workspace was so filthy that when we opened his Mjolnir we found filth and dead cockroaches- those guys get charged.  We get units that are dinged, scratched, and dented.  We've had customers decide to take their products apart and then put them together wrong.  All these folks have one thing in common, when we finished they weren't given an inflated repair bill.
  
 We also don't hold warranty repairs hostage.  I contacted Aegruin personally and advised him to have the original owner contact us and we would work to get this thing taken care of.  The ball is in his court.  If we lied and cheated people, it would be common knowledge on headfi and other audio forums. 
  
 We do our best to treat people honorably and with respect.  At the same time, if we repaired every second, third, or fourth hand product out there our costs would go up and we would be forced to charge more to all customers to cover this cost.  Most of our customers hold on their products are are very happy with them.  There is no reason they should be asked to subsidize people who choose to resell their products.


----------



## Mediahound

Yeah really. I was reading Aegruins post and thinking to myself- does he really expect any company to cover dubious product hand-offs like that? It's like - 'get real'.


----------



## bretemm

I might soon today order more Schiit: 
Valhalla2 
SYS 
& 2 sets of rca cables 
(I forgot tho, on the Schiit profile to log into, is my debit card stored in Schiit.com? Or can I use a different card to pay?) or "prompt to enter" my card info? 
Thanks


----------



## reddog

bretemm said:


> I might soon today order more Schiit:
> Valhalla2
> SYS
> & 2 sets of rca cables
> ...



I hope your new schiit puts a big old smile on your face,, as you jam out.


----------



## Aegruin

mediahound said:


> Yeah really. I was reading Aegruins post and thinking to myself- does he really expect any company to cover dubious product hand-offs like that? It's like - 'get real'.


 
 It wasn't a hand off, it was a gift and I've used this stack since bought. You can't make the bill for the gift owner, that was my point.
 But it doesn't matter now, if I want to send it to the warranty my friend is ready to send but it isn't necessary for now. I loved the Toslink sound and I don't need USB.
  
 And the other "avoid paying VAT or import duties" thing. It isn't questionable. It is a lacunae in law. It is legal. A person buys from USA and he is free to go with it to another country. That simple.
  
 And I didn't claimed you are cheating peoples, I claimed you have very strict policy that would make people angry(like me) and go away.


----------



## Alex Martin

bretemm said:


> I might soon today order more Schiit:
> Valhalla2
> SYS
> & 2 sets of rca cables
> ...


 

 We don't hold on to your financial information.  We use Paypal as our payment processor for both credit card and Paypal transactions.  Paypal keeps your financial information.  The only thing we keep is your name, billing and shipping address, phone number, and email address.   More likely than not, you'll have to reenter your credit card information.


----------



## rovopio

aegruin said:


> It wasn't a hand off, it was a gift and I've used this stack since bought. You can't make the bill for the gift owner, that was my point.
> But it doesn't matter now, if I want to send it to the warranty my friend is ready to send but it isn't necessary for now. I loved the Toslink sound and I don't need USB.
> 
> And the other "avoid paying VAT or import duties" thing. It isn't questionable. It is a lacunae in law. It is legal. A person buys from USA and he is free to go with it to another country. That simple.
> ...


 
  
 Just to share my experience, a couple Regional Distributors I bought items from doesn't allow transferable warranties here, so I believe that it's a normal practice.
 Comparatively speaking, Schiit made quality items at affordable price so it's highly reasonable for them to have non-transferable warranty policy.
 In addition, as far as after sales is concern, on head-fi they seem like they take good care of their customers. That might be common if one live in develop countries, but it is Great and somewhat rare if one live in less-develop countries.


----------



## bretemm

Ok thank you! 
But with "PayPal" any debit card should work? I don't have a paypal account. 
Thanks! 





alex martin said:


> We don't hold on to your financial information.  We use Paypal as our payment processor for both credit card and Paypal transactions.  Paypal keeps your financial information.  The only thing we keep is your name, billing and shipping address, phone number, and email address.   More likely than not, you'll have to reenter your credit card information.


----------



## Alex Martin

bretemm said:


> Ok thank you!
> But with "PayPal" any debit card should work? I don't have a paypal account.
> Thanks!


 

 Most debit cards should work.  I would never say any as there are always exceptions to every rule.  You don't have to have a Paypal account to check out.  The Paypal part is invisible if you are only using a credit/debit card and not using your Paypal account.


----------



## bretemm

Ok thank you, 
Do you work for Schiit? 
This will be my second order in over a year from my first, 
You guys are great, great quality and reliable and awesome with your customer support! 
Thanks 


alex martin said:


> Most debit cards should work.  I would never say any as there are always exceptions to every rule.  You don't have to have a Paypal account to check out.  The Paypal part is invisible if you are only using a credit/debit card and not using your Paypal account.


----------



## Alex Martin

bretemm said:


> Ok thank you,
> Do you work for Schiit?
> This will be my second order in over a year from my first,
> You guys are great, great quality and reliable and awesome with your customer support!
> Thanks


 

 My employee number is 0001, probably because I turned in my paperwork first.  My official title is Director of Operations- I really just do whatever is needed on any given day to make things happen.  Thanks for the compliments.  We always appreciate hearing that we are doing a good job.


----------



## bretemm

Thanks, 
Yea I heard about you guys from a random youtube video- so then i looked up Schiit and mainly the outline of being affordable and not under quality or over priced made me want to order from you guys (I was looking for a amp and dac because I can't use over the war headphones because of magnets) I've talked to "Nick T" several times when Ive had questions and was very helpful 





alex martin said:


> My employee number is 0001, probably because I turned in my paperwork first.  My official title is Director of Operations- I really just do whatever is needed on any given day to make things happen.  Thanks for the compliments.  We always appreciate hearing that we are doing a good job.


----------



## RCBinTN

bretemm said:


> Ok thank you,
> Do you work for Schiit?
> This will be my second order in over a year from my first,
> You guys are great, great quality and reliable and awesome with your customer support!
> Thanks


 
  
 There's a really great Schiit Audio thread that will introduce you to the people and history of the company.  It's worth a read, if you're happy with the company and their products, and want to learn more about them.  Alex is kinda like the Schiit foundation...once the concept and base products were born, Jason and Mike asked Alex to make it happen - and he did!


----------



## bretemm

Awesome thanks, 
I just placed my order for a Valhalla2! 


rcbintn said:


> There's a really great Schiit Audio thread that will introduce you to the people and history of the company.  It's worth a read, if you're happy with the company and their products, and want to learn more about them.  Alex is kinda like the Schiit foundation...once the concept and base products were born, Jason and Mike asked Alex to make it happen - and he did!


----------



## bretemm

I just placed my Valhalla2 order! 
Thanks 
I chose the lowest shipping tho haha


alex martin said:


> My employee number is 0001, probably because I turned in my paperwork first.  My official title is Director of Operations- I really just do whatever is needed on any given day to make things happen.  Thanks for the compliments.  We always appreciate hearing that we are doing a good job.


----------



## bretemm

I have to use IEMs because I can't get by sting magnets, so, 
What would the ideal specs be for IEMs to use with the Valhalla2? 
Thanks 





alex martin said:


> My employee number is 0001, probably because I turned in my paperwork first.  My official title is Director of Operations- I really just do whatever is needed on any given day to make things happen.  Thanks for the compliments.  We always appreciate hearing that we are doing a good job.


----------



## Rem0o

bretemm said:


> I have to use IEMs because I can't get by sting magnets, so,
> What would the ideal specs be for IEMs to use with the Valhalla2?
> Thanks


 
 High impedance, low sensitivity, even phase response.


----------



## bretemm

Thanks 





rem0o said:


> High impedance, low sensitivity, even phase response.


----------



## jeremy205100

alex martin said:


> Our warranties do not transfer to the second and subsequent owners.  The recipient of a gift is considered the first owner if the gift is given in a reasonable time.  Six months later is questionable.  We don't want to be on the hook for broken Schiit that gets broken because it was sold to five or six people in four years.  A lot of these transactions Aegruin describes in his suggestions are pretty questionable.  They seem designed to avoid paying duties and taxes- a gift is a gift but a grey market transaction to avoid paying VAT or import duties is very questionable.
> 
> We usually repair a few units a month that are received damaged by the second, third, or fourth owner.  We don't gouge with our repair bills, the cost is often less than 10 dollars for our small products with the price increasing based on the size, complexity of the product, and type of damage.  We've had units that have been struck by lightning, a cat urinated into an Asgard, we had one guy whose workspace was so filthy that when we opened his Mjolnir we found filth and dead cockroaches- those guys get charged.  We get units that are dinged, scratched, and dented.  We've had customers decide to take their products apart and then put them together wrong.  All these folks have one thing in common, when we finished they weren't given an inflated repair bill.
> 
> ...


 

 Schiit is by far the most transparent electronics company I have ever heard of and bought from. The amount of detail Jason has disclosed and discussed in his thread sets them apart from the competition. But regardless, the products speak for themselves. I auditioned the few competing products I could find in the Asgard 2 price range and not one offered the same level of construction and sound quality. The 5 year warranty gave me the confidence to buy it from them having never heard it, but after owning it for around two years now I can say with confidence I will never need that warranty.


----------



## bretemm

What would a example pair be with those ideal specs? 
Thanks again 


rem0o said:


> High impedance, low sensitivity, even phase response.


----------



## darkieoppa

Just want to ask if anyone has paired Modi2+Magni 2 Uber with ATH R70X yet ?


----------



## bretemm

So with the SYS, that's more for if I have 2 Schiit DACs? To switch inbetween rather then 2 headphone amps?
I'm now kinda just wanting to find an excuse to buy even more Schiit haha


----------



## magnum703

Lyr 2 with LISST and bifrost uber USB is shipped! Can't wait! First schiit products. Actually first dac and amp too lol


----------



## MWSVette

magnum703 said:


> Lyr 2 with LISST and bifrost uber USB is shipped! Can't wait! First schiit products. Actually first dac and amp too lol


 

 +1 nice way to start. Enjoy your new Schiit...


----------



## Exidrion

magnum703 said:


> Lyr 2 with LISST and bifrost uber USB is shipped! Can't wait! First schiit products. Actually first dac and amp too lol




Congrats my friend, it is a very slippery slope now though. Before you know it you'll be rocking a rag/yggy combo with some summit-fi phones.


----------



## reddog

exidrion said:


> Congrats my friend, it is a very slippery slope now though. Before you know it you'll be rocking a rag/yggy combo with some summit-fi phones.



Yes that is the slippery slope I am traversing now. Started out modestly and I have just ordered my third TOTL headphone, the ETHER C. And that does not include a Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit. My wallet has agreed, not to talk to me till christmas.


----------



## magnum703

Thanks guys. Hmm... And. I was thinking this will be my one and only dac and amp combo! Haha is there such a big difference with the even more expensive stuff?? Eekkk. 



exidrion said:


> Congrats my friend, it is a very slippery slope now though. Before you know it you'll be rocking a rag/yggy combo with some summit-fi phones.







mwsvette said:


> +1 nice way to start. Enjoy your new Schiit...







reddog said:


> Yes that is the slippery slope I am traversing now. Started out modestly and I have just ordered my third TOTL headphone, the ETHER C. And that does not include a Yggdrasil and Gungnir Multibit. My wallet has agreed, not to talk to me till christmas.


----------



## Alex Martin

bretemm said:


> So with the SYS, that's more for if I have 2 Schiit DACs? To switch inbetween rather then 2 headphone amps?
> I'm now kinda just wanting to find an excuse to buy even more Schiit haha


 

 Yes.  Two source inputs and one output with a volume control in the middle.  So if you have a phono setup as a source and a DAC as your other source you can switch between them.  Off book, you can turn the volume all the way up and plug your source in to the output and two amps in the inputs and use it to choose between two amps.  I've used it both ways.  The electrons don't seem to care.


----------



## MWSVette

alex martin said:


> Yes.  Two source inputs and one output with a volume control in the middle.  So if you have a phono setup as a source and a DAC as your other source you can switch between them.  Off book, you can turn the volume all the way up and plug your source in to the output and two amps in the inputs and use it to choose between two amps.  I've used it both ways.  The electrons don't seem to care.


 

 That's how I use mine.  Off book to switch between amps.
  
 Wish you would build a Sys 2 with 2 switchable inputs and 2 outputs that could be switched to use either or both.  Please...


----------



## ThurstonX

mwsvette said:


> That's how I use mine.  Off book to switch between amps.
> 
> Wish you would build a Sys 2 with 2 switchable inputs and 2 outputs that could use either or both.  Please...


 
  
 Or one with 3 or 4 inputs.


----------



## DjBobby

alex martin said:


> Yes.  Two source inputs and one output with a volume control in the middle.  So if you have a phono setup as a source and a DAC as your other source you can switch between them.  Off book, you can turn the volume all the way up and plug your source in to the output and two amps in the inputs and use it to choose between two amps.  I've used it both ways.  The electrons don't seem to care.


 

 This is simply great, thanks Alex! I was breaking my head how to that, looking for some not-so-ugly switches, and the solution was just in front of my nose, LOL.


----------



## DjBobby

thurstonx said:


> Or one with 3 or 4 inputs.


 

 Or modular upgradable Sys, where you can buy new inputs as your Schiit collection grows.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, 
In the future I might get the Schiit for a turn table but I'm still looking for which brand to go with. 





alex martin said:


> Yes.  Two source inputs and one output with a volume control in the middle.  So if you have a phono setup as a source and a DAC as your other source you can switch between them.  Off book, you can turn the volume all the way up and plug your source in to the output and two amps in the inputs and use it to choose between two amps.  I've used it both ways.  The electrons don't seem to care.


----------



## bretemm

Does Schiit.com show if my order has been sent yet? Or is that only when I get a notification email from fedex?


----------



## Astral Abyss

bretemm said:


> Does Schiit.com show if my order has been sent yet? Or is that only when I get a notification email from fedex?



You'll get notified from Schiit with a tracking number link the second it ships.


----------



## bretemm

Ok,
I don't mean that Q to sound impatient, 
Thanks! 


astral abyss said:


> You'll get notified from Schiit with a tracking number link the second it ships.


----------



## artur9

Are the Extreme DACs in the Theta Casablanca Moffat DACs?  
  
 If so, surround sound R2R might be too intense for me.


----------



## Baldr

That's a negative -- The Casablanca was done after I left................


----------



## bretemm

My Schiit Valhalla2 shipped today, now I need a great IEM for tubes, thanks Schiit!


----------



## Mediahound

My MJ 2 / Gungir MB stack looking and sounding great in my system:
  

  
 There's something quite Bauhaus about the Schiit styling which I really like. Austere, sorta industrial, and way cool.


----------



## LifeIsGood4

I dont think my Vali amp was ever right and now i think its really dying. I probably should have returned it a year or two ago when I bought it =(.


----------



## Tuco1965

lifeisgood4 said:


> I dont think my Vali amp was ever right and now i think its really dying. I probably should have returned it a year or two ago when I bought it =(.




You should contact Schiit if you think there is something wrong with it.


----------



## Mediahound

lifeisgood4 said:


> I dont think my Vali amp was ever right and now i think its really dying. I probably should have returned it a year or two ago when I bought it =(.


 
  
  


tuco1965 said:


> You should contact Schiit if you think there is something wrong with it.


 

 Yep, the Vali has a 2 year warranty.


----------



## Oklahoma

mediahound said:


> Yep, the Vali has a 2 year warranty.


 
 Even if no longer under warranty Schiit has said they do everything to keep repair costs down and most of the time it is really reasonable.
  
 Here is the post from Alex the main office person at Schiit (cleaned up the post a little, cut out the reply part for an earlier issue).
  


alex martin said:


> We usually repair a few units a month that are received damaged by the second, third, or fourth owner.  We don't gouge with our repair bills, the cost is often less than 10 dollars for our small products with the price increasing based on the size, complexity of the product, and type of damage.  We've had units that have been struck by lightning, a cat urinated into an Asgard, we had one guy whose workspace was so filthy that when we opened his Mjolnir we found filth and dead cockroaches- those guys get charged.  We get units that are dinged, scratched, and dented.  We've had customers decide to take their products apart and then put them together wrong.  All these folks have one thing in common, when we finished they weren't given an inflated repair bill.
> 
> We do our best to treat people honorably and with respect.  At the same time, if we repaired every second, third, or fourth hand product out there our costs would go up and we would be forced to charge more to all customers to cover this cost.  Most of our customers hold on their products are are very happy with them.  There is no reason they should be asked to subsidize people who choose to resell their products.


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone else have the: 
Valhalla2? 
As far as testing different tubes,
What are some reconmendations? 

I mainly listen to rock and Classic rock, 
With the greatful dead, I like that warm sound that has "space" to it and detail in a way, 
I also listen to indie rock


----------



## Aegruin

lifeisgood4 said:


> I dont think my Vali amp was ever right and now i think its really dying. I probably should have returned it a year or two ago when I bought it =(.


 
 And don't try to argue with them. They may claim you're a con man or cheater. Been there done that.


----------



## Otheronek

bretemm said:


> Does anyone else have the:
> Valhalla2?
> As far as testing different tubes,
> What are some reconmendations?
> ...


 

 What he said... _a future owner wants to know as well_..


----------



## Tuco1965

otheronek said:


> What he said... _a future owner wants to know as well_..




You may find some answers here. http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## Billheiser

aegruin said:


> And don't try to argue with them. They may claim you're a con man or cheater. Been there done that.


 

 No cheap shots please.  The top people at Schiit have reached out to you to give special consideration.  They are going above and beyond to help you.  And now you are slandering them.  That's low.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

aegruin said:


> And don't try to argue with them. They may claim you're a con man or cheater. Been there done that.


 

 What am I missing here? You had your friend, the original owner, contact us for repair, correct? Again, contact us and we'll take care of you.


----------



## Rotijon

jason stoddard said:


> What am I missing here? You had your friend, the original owner, contact us for repair, correct? Again, contact us and we'll take care of you.


 
 Just out of curiosity, why is that that many companies including schiit, do not offer warranty on secondhand items, even if it is still within the original warranty period? 

 Alex says it increases cost, but im not sure how it does so.


----------



## hodgjy

rotijon said:


> Just out of curiosity, why is that that many companies including schiit, do not offer warranty on secondhand items, even if it is still within the original warranty period?
> 
> Alex says it increases cost, but im not sure how it does so.


 
  
 It's my understanding that warranties imply a guarantee for an acceptable lifetime of normal use. Items that are sold used exceed that "normal" lifetime because another user is involved. Also, there's no way to track "normal" use across multiple owners. Was it defective because the original owner abused it and then sold it, or was it defective from the start? No real way to answer that without tearing it apart and looking, which does cost the manufacturer money.
  
 It's a slippery slope that basically prevents the manufacturer from guaranteeing their items forever.


----------



## Rotijon

hodgjy said:


> It's my understanding that warranties imply a guarantee for an acceptable lifetime of normal use. Items that are sold used exceed that "normal" lifetime because another user is involved. Also, there's no way to track "normal" use across multiple owners. Was it defective because the original owner abused it and then sold it, or was it defective from the start? No real way to answer that without tearing it apart and looking, which does cost the manufacturer money.
> 
> It's a slippery slope that basically prevents the manufacturer from guaranteeing their items forever.


 


 The warranty says its for X amount of years which in this case is 2-5 years.

 I think you're thinking too deep into it. There is no mention of "Normal" use nor its definition.

 Im pretty sure Schiit is exceedingly fair even to secondhand or even thirdhand customers.

 I'm just curious on why the warranty period cant be transferred along with the product upon the sale


----------



## Jason Stoddard

hodgjy said:


> It's my understanding that warranties imply a guarantee for an acceptable lifetime of normal use. Items that are sold used exceed that "normal" lifetime because another user is involved. Also, there's no way to track "normal" use across multiple owners. Was it defective because the original owner abused it and then sold it, or was it defective from the start? No real way to answer that without tearing it apart and looking, which does cost the manufacturer money.
> 
> It's a slippery slope that basically prevents the manufacturer from guaranteeing their items forever.


 

 Bingo. Schiit, like most consumer electronics manufacturers, provide a warranty for the original purchaser only. However, there are several key differences (which I will get to.)
  
 Why? It's simple. When you buy from us, or from an authorized distributor, we know what you're getting. It's been through our QC, it has been burnt in, and it has passed many tests. However, if you buy from someone else, it could be abused, modified (this happens VERY often with inexpensive equipment), damaged by improper packing, etc. In this case, we _don't_ know what you're getting, and hence a warranty does not apply.
  
 We choose to limit the costs associated with dealing with abused, modified, and other equipment of unknown provenance for the same reason we don't do sales, don't have dealers, don't have fancy packaging, etc: to provide much higher value. This is why Stereophile said of the Bifrost: "this is the highest-value product we have_ ever _seen." This is why, if you look inside an Asgard, or Magni 2, or pretty much any product and compare it to products at the same price (or frequently much higher price points), you'll see much, much more for your money. That's what we concentrate on. If you want no-fault all-user warranties, fancy packaging, or 100% return refunds including shipping, you should be looking elsewhere--because that is not us. 
  
 (Plus, I have seen infinitely transferrable warranties eat more than one company alive.)
  
 Now, the differences:
  
 1. Schiit warranties, especially on our $249 and up gear, are very generous when compared to the competition. This is because we want you to be happy with the gear you buy from us for a long time.
 2. There are many things we do that go above and beyond the stated warranty, including rapid exchange of defective or DOA products (we ship before we receive yours in return).
 3. Most out-of-warranty repairs (within the original warranty period) are free. If a product is unmodified and unabused, we frequently don't charge for out-of-warranty repairs. Even if it is dirty/modified/etc, the charge is usually nominal.
  
 I hope this clears a few things up.


----------



## velvetx

Just picked up a Schiit Lyr 2 and have had my Bifrost for some time.  Love my Schiit.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## bretemm

Thabks, 
Now, I'm just wanting to know what the ideal IEM specs are to use? 
I'm stuck with IEMs because I can't get by strong magnets. 





otheronek said:


> What he said... _a future owner wants to know as well_..


----------



## magnum703

Wow I think I lucked out. My lyr2 w/liist and bifrost uber just came to my door, with no custom fees?!?


----------



## Aegruin

jason stoddard said:


> What am I missing here? You had your friend, the original owner, contact us for repair, correct? Again, contact us and we'll take care of you.


 
 It was a joke about a thing @Alex Martin wrote. I thought "
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" thing was enough to explain that. I talked to many people about Schiit after that posts and I love the sound.
  
 This was the thing I was joking about:_ "A lot of these transactions Aegruin describes in his suggestions are pretty questionable.  They seem designed to avoid paying duties and taxes- a gift is a gift but a grey market transaction to avoid paying VAT or import duties is very questionable."_
  
 But you really should put a section about gifts when paying the devices. Like "I'm buying this for                        person and my warranty is on him/her"
 It is not about me. I solved my problem. It is a general suggestion.


----------



## DjBobby

magnum703 said:


> Wow I think I lucked out. My lyr2 w/liist and bifrost uber just came to my door, with no custom fees?!?


 

 Not wanting to disappoint you, just to prepare you. Mine came without taxes too. But.... probably a week later, I got a bill from FedEx containing all charges. They charged me even for processing my custom fees.


----------



## magnum703

djbobby said:


> Not wanting to disappoint you, just to prepare you. Mine came without taxes too. But.... probably a week later, I got a bill from FedEx containing all charges. They charged me even for processing my custom fees.


 
 I used USPS. Not sure if FedEx will still send me a bill? lol


----------



## magnum703

I'm having troubles installing my bifrost uber. When I'm installing, it says "Please connect the CMEDIA USB2.0 Audio Device," which I did. Tried all my 2.0 ports with no success...


----------



## DjBobby

magnum703 said:


> I used USPS. Not sure if FedEx will still send me a bill? lol


 

 So it's true! And I thought that sending through USPS being tax free, was only an urban legend. Lucky you


----------



## bretemm

My tax was included when I paid online? 


djbobby said:


> So it's true! And I thought than sending through USPS being tax free, was only an urban legend. Lucky you


----------



## Tuco1965

magnum703 said:


> I'm having troubles installing my bifrost uber. When I'm installing, it says "Please connect the CMEDIA USB2.0 Audio Device," which I did. Tried all my 2.0 ports with no success...




Are you using the correct driver for your OS?


----------



## DjBobby

bretemm said:


> My tax was included when I paid online?


 
  
 Shipping tax yes, with the main order online. But still, FedEx has charged me additionally another tax for processing my custom fees. Custom fees were already payed by them, in order to speed up delivery. So, I got a bill to to cover their fees plus a service charge for "VAT and customs fee processing".


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I chose the low cost shipping when I ordered and paid a $15 tax 





djbobby said:


> Shipping tax yes, with the main order online. But still, FedEx has charged me additionally another tax for processing my custom fees. Custom fees were already payed by them, in order to speed up delivery. So, I got a bill to to cover their fees plus a service charge for "VAT and customs fee processing".


----------



## Argo Duck

Hmm, as a bystander your post did not _at all_ come across as "a joke" nor did  (awaiting developments) "explain" this. It read to me like you were once more angry!

Nevertheless, thanks for explaining what you meant.



aegruin said:


> It was a joke about a thing @Alex Martin
> wrote. I thought " " thing was enough to explain that. I talked to many people about Schiit after that posts and I love the sound. I made my promise, I will buy your flagship when I graduate and I trust your honesty.
> 
> This was the thing I was joking about: _"A lot of these transactions Aegruin describes in his suggestions are pretty questionable.  They seem designed to avoid paying duties and taxes- a gift is a gift but a grey market transaction to avoid paying VAT or import duties is very questionable."_
> ...


----------



## rovopio

djbobby said:


> Shipping tax yes, with the main order online. But still, FedEx has charged me additionally another tax for processing my custom fees. Custom fees were already payed by them, in order to speed up delivery. So, I got a bill to to cover their fees plus a service charge for "VAT and customs fee processing".


 
  
 When I bought my Magni 2 Uber, excluding tax, FedEx asked me for $59 on Fees. I don't have the invoice with me at the moment to be exact but I remember it has (gas+transport+admin+warehouse+communication+handling) fee if I'm not mistaken. How is gas differ than transport I don't know. And how is $59 Fees for $149 item is legal I don't know either.
  
 I feel that the local FedEx profits more from bringing my Magni 2 Uber to my address than Schiit from selling the item to me. I felt it was unfair for a while.
  


aegruin said:


> And don't try to argue with them. They may claim you're a con man or cheater. Been there done that.


 
  
 I'd say 95% of Regional Distributors in my part of Asia doesn't do transferable warranties. Non-transferable warranties is Very Normal, and Schiit's people are Very Good with their aftersales based on head-fi members account.
 I just had a personal experience with their aftersales 2 weeks or so ago as well, and that was also Great.
  
 I really think you should have made your own Schiit user account and pay with your own paypal account instead, or at least notify them from the start about your situation before you made purchase.


----------



## magnum703

I'm in Toronto. USPS just dropped it at my door without charging me lol. O man, I've never heard my music so clear and beautiful.


----------



## bretemm

I don't think I was charged any additional free when I bought my magni and modi, just the tax, when you order you can choose a faster shipping but I went with the $15 shipping (I think) 





rovopio said:


> When I bought my Magni 2 Uber, excluding tax, FedEx asked me for $59 on Fees. I don't have the invoice with me at the moment to be exact but I remember it has (gas+transport+admin+warehouse+communication+handling) fee if I'm not mistaken. How is gas differ than transport I don't know. And how is $59 Fees for $149 item is legal I don't know either.
> 
> I feel that the local FedEx profits more from bringing my Magni 2 Uber to my address than Schiit from selling the item to me. I felt it was unfair for a while.
> 
> ...


----------



## DjBobby

rovopio said:


> When I bought my Magni 2 Uber, excluding tax, FedEx asked me for $59 on Fees. I don't have the invoice with me at the moment to be exact but I remember it has (gas+transport+admin+warehouse+communication+handling) fee if I'm not mistaken. How is gas differ than transport I don't know. And how is $59 Fees for $149 item is legal I don't know either.
> 
> I feel that the local FedEx profits more from bringing my Magni 2 Uber to my address than Schiit from selling the item to me. I felt it was unfair for a while.


 
  
Agree with you. I've found it, here what it says:
  
"FedEx® Advancement Fee: 
In some circumstances FedEx is required to pay certain duties and taxes in advance on our customers' behalf. For instance, FedEx may pay an advancement fee when countries require that duties and taxes be paid prior to customs' release or prior to certain items clearing customs. In these circumstances FedEx will assess an *Advancement Fee surcharge* that will be billed to the party designated to pay duties and taxes."


----------



## bretemm

So I'll have to pay a fee when I pick up my Schiit order? Whatever happened to loyalty with fedex and ups?, it kinda shows you why Schiit is even better, FedEx throws random fees out there for "quality" when Schiit actually builds to stay true to their quality and support 





djbobby said:


> Agree with you. I've found it, here what it says:
> 
> [COLOR=000000]"FedEx
> ®
> ...


----------



## Hardwired

magnum703 said:


> I'm having troubles installing my bifrost uber. When I'm installing, it says "Please connect the CMEDIA USB2.0 Audio Device," which I did. Tried all my 2.0 ports with no success...


 
  
 Try an older version of the USB driver. I tried their newer versions on Windows 7/8.1/10 and couldn't get them to work (hung with the same message you say) so the older one (1.01 I think? Also available on the Schiit download page) was the only one I got to work.


----------



## bretemm

I just got a reply from Schiit about any shipping fees, 
They said that the fees only apply for out of country orders, 

So as long as your in the USA, no fee, I guess


----------



## magnum703

hardwired said:


> Try an older version of the USB driver. I tried their newer versions on Windows 7/8.1/10 and couldn't get them to work (hung with the same message you say) so the older one (1.01 I think? Also available on the Schiit download page) was the only one I got to work.


 
 Thanks! It works now that I've installed the older driver. But... does that mean my Bifrost isn't working as good as if I have the latest driver installed?


----------



## DjBobby

bretemm said:


> I just got a reply from Schiit about any shipping fees,
> They said that the fees only apply for out of country orders,
> 
> So as long as your in the USA, no fee, I guess


 

 Yes, sure, no fees for you. We were talking about import duty and customs plus some FedEx surcharge, when you order your Schiit outside US.


----------



## rovopio

bretemm said:


> I just got a reply from Schiit about any shipping fees,
> They said that the fees only apply for out of country orders,
> 
> So as long as your in the USA, no fee, I guess


 
  
 yeah I don't live in North America, nor America Continent for that matter haha.
  


djbobby said:


> Yes, sure, no fees for you. We were talking about import duty and customs plus some FedEx surcharge, when you order your Schiit outside US.


 
  
 I lived in 3 countries so far. On one country FedEx was ~$6-$10. On another it was ~$15-$18. This crazy-ass local FedEx arm asked me for $59 late last year for the Magni 2 Uber I ordered.
  
 That's not all, according to proper calculation I should've paid 40% of $185 (CIF) - $50 country's no-tax limit. So I should've just pay 40% of $135. However on my bill I paid 40% of the entire $185!
  
 That is So Wrong, and I feel _somebody somewhere _take an extra $20 (40% of the $50 I shouldn't paid) out of me.


----------



## bretemm

I ordered a harddrive from bestbuy that is manufacturered out of country I guess, 
I think that was the $30-$40 fee I had to pay when signing for it (I think that was UPS) 





rovopio said:


> yeah I don't live in North America, nor America Continent for that matter haha.
> 
> 
> I lived in 3 countries so far. On one country FedEx was ~$6-$10. On another it was ~$15-$18. This crazy-ass local FedEx arm asked me for $59 late last year for the Magni 2 Uber I ordered.
> ...


----------



## Mediahound

If you're out of the USA, FedEX and UPS do charge their own fees on top of your country duties. US Postal Service usually does not.


----------



## bretemm

would 2ft rca cable be too long for a 
modi to valhalla to use as a dac then use the regular 6in rca Schiit cable to from my valhalla2 to my magni as a pass through? 
(Modi > valhalla2 > magni) 
I have to get higher ohm IEMs, I don't want to ruin my 15ohm (I think) klipsch 3G


----------



## Mediahound

bretemm said:


> would 2ft rca cable be too long for a
> modi to valhalla to use as a dac then use the regular 6in rca Schiit cable to from my valhalla2 to my magni as a pass through?
> (Modi > valhalla2 > magni)
> I have to get higher ohm IEMs, I don't want to ruin my 15ohm (I think) klipsch 3G


 

 I wouldn't expect it to make any difference.  2 ft. is not really very long.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, how about 3ft? I just measured the cables , it's just 2 cables together the red and white 





mediahound said:


> I wouldn't expect it to make any difference.  2 ft. is not really very long.


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> Ok, how about 3ft? I just measured the cables , it's just 2 cables together the red and white


 
  
 That's less than a meter, not long at all. No worries.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





kljtech said:


> That's less than a meter, not long at all. No worries.


----------



## Rem0o

bretemm said:


> would 2ft rca cable be too long for a
> modi to valhalla to use as a dac then use the regular 6in rca Schiit cable to from my valhalla2 to my magni as a pass through?
> (Modi > valhalla2 > magni)
> I have to get higher ohm IEMs, I don't want to ruin my 15ohm (I think) klipsch 3G


 
 Having Valhalla to run IEM is a strange idea. It's like using an excavator to move a single grain of sand.


----------



## Oklahoma

bretemm said:


> would 2ft rca cable be too long for a
> modi to valhalla to use as a dac then use the regular 6in rca Schiit cable to from my valhalla2 to my magni as a pass through?
> (Modi > valhalla2 > magni)
> I have to get higher ohm IEMs, I don't want to ruin my 15ohm (I think) klipsch 3G


 
  
 I wouldn't run through the valhalla2 then into the Magni.  The preouts are not just a strait pass through as they are volume controlled by the Valhalla2.  So to use the Magni you would need to turn the volume all the way up on the Valhalla2 so they are a line out into the Magni.  Then remember to NEVER just plug the iems into the Valhalla without turning the volume back down or bye bye iems.  Also, the Valhalla2 is a class A tube amp so it runs hot and I wouldn't put the Magni on top of it which is about as far as you are going to get with the 6 in cables.  Easiest would be to just use an rca splitter off the back of the dac with one ran into the Valhalla2 and one into the Magni (this is what I have with a Magni2 and Lyr2 and have no issues). Otherwise you could use a SYS in reverse where you plug the dac into the output on the SYS and each amp into one of the inputs and with the volume all the way up it acts as an A/B switch this way.


----------



## bretemm

Ehh, well, I want a tube sound and that, but I just can't use regular headphones because I can't get by strong magnets (I have something medical) 





rem0o said:


> Having Valhalla to run IEM is a strange idea. It's like using an excavator to move a single grain of sand.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so between the magni, modi and valhalla2 and 6in rca cables and 3ft cables, how would I best setup everything? 
I talked to Nick T at Schiit and said that the Magni would work to use the Valhalla2 as a pass through, and it should show the tube sound. 
I really want to use the valhalla2, 
I'm wanting to use the magni because of how powerful the valhalla is and I have I think a 15-20ohm IEM right now. 
Thank you and don't mean a long reply haha 





oklahoma said:


> I wouldn't run through the valhalla2 then into the Magni.  The preouts are not just a strait pass through as they are volume controlled by the Valhalla2.  So to use the Magni you would need to turn the volume all the way up on the Valhalla2 so they are a line out into the Magni.  Then remember to NEVER just plug the iems into the Valhalla without turning the volume back down or bye bye iems.  Also, the Valhalla2 is a class A tube amp so it runs hot and I wouldn't put the Magni on top of it which is about as far as you are going to get with the 6 in cables.  Easiest would be to just use an rca splitter off the back of the dac with one ran into the Valhalla2 and one into the Magni (this is what I have with a Magni2 and Lyr2 and have no issues). Otherwise you could use a SYS in reverse where you plug the dac into the output on the SYS and each amp into one of the inputs and with the volume all the way up it acts as an A/B switch this way.


----------



## Oklahoma

It technically will work. You just have to be careful and remember to turn the volume down if you want to plug anything into the valhalla2. Any preamp will work as a pass-through or line out with the volume all the way up it is generally best to only use one volume control in a chain so you aren't messing with the signal to much. The main thing is since the valhalla2 is so powerful you have to remember the volume control on it before you do anything else like plugging in other headphones. 

As far as the cables I would see if you can get the 6 in to reach from the modi to the valhalla2 with them sitting side by side then use the 3ft cable to go to the magni as the preouts are further in than the inputs on the valhalla2 and the magni can sit on top of the modi beside the valhalla2 and not have heat issues.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I ultimatly want to just get a RCA cord like "--<" that and just connect my iPod avs not use my Schiit dac, but I don't have that cable right now 





oklahoma said:


> It technically will work. You just have to be careful and remember to turn the volume down if you want to plug anything into the valhalla2. Any preamp will work as a pass-through or line out with the volume all the way up it is generally best to only use one volume control in a chain so you aren't messing with the signal to much. The main thing is since the valhalla2 is so powerful you have to remember the volume control on it before you do anything else like plugging in other headphones.
> 
> As far as the cables I would see if you can get the 6 in to reach from the modi to the valhalla2 with them sitting side by side then use the 3ft cable to go to the magni as the preouts are further in than the inputs on the valhalla2 and the magni can sit on top of the modi beside the valhalla2 and not have heat issues.


----------



## bretemm

But, is it bad to use 2 different length cords? 2 6in and 2 3ft? Untill I get another 2 6in cords? Thanks 





oklahoma said:


> It technically will work. You just have to be careful and remember to turn the volume down if you want to plug anything into the valhalla2. Any preamp will work as a pass-through or line out with the volume all the way up it is generally best to only use one volume control in a chain so you aren't messing with the signal to much. The main thing is since the valhalla2 is so powerful you have to remember the volume control on it before you do anything else like plugging in other headphones.
> 
> As far as the cables I would see if you can get the 6 in to reach from the modi to the valhalla2 with them sitting side by side then use the 3ft cable to go to the magni as the preouts are further in than the inputs on the valhalla2 and the magni can sit on top of the modi beside the valhalla2 and not have heat issues.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> But, is it bad to use 2 different length cords? 2 6in and 2 3ft? Untill I get another 2 6in cords? Thanks


 

 No, perfectly fine.  Length of the cables really doesn't matter unless it's like 50 feet or more.


----------



## Pokemonn

I just ordered Schiit LYR2 B stock..will pair with HD650. will LYR2 work fine with HD650??


----------



## JamesBr

magnum703 said:


> I'm in Toronto. USPS just dropped it at my door without charging me lol. O man, I've never heard my music so clear and beautiful.


 
  
 I don't know if it's random but I also had an experience with them not charging me


----------



## ThurstonX

pokemonn said:


> I just ordered Schiit LYR2 B stock..will pair with HD650. will LYR2 work fine with HD650??


 
  
 When I owned them briefly, the HD 650s sounded fine from my Lyr .  Enjoy


----------



## Pokemonn

thurstonx said:


> When I owned them briefly, the HD 650s sounded fine from my Lyr .  Enjoy


 

 Thank you for reply and advice! Thanks!


----------



## maho

Sign me up. I'm a proud new owner of the Magni/Modi 2 Uber Schiit stack.


----------



## Tuco1965

Congrats! Enjoy your new stack.


----------



## bretemm

My Valhalla2 just came in, 
It's unpacked and Im just looking for a power strip now


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so, 
I plugged in the valhalla2 I got the 
I put from my Schiit dac going on, 
Then the out is to my Schiit magni, 
But no sound, 
It did have sound but it was faint and I think a tube was loose, 
But now the tubes are fitted but no sound


----------



## bretemm

Some sound comes in but it's very faint and I can barely hear it


----------



## Oklahoma

Check your computer volume as the modi does adjust to what the computer volume is. It should be at 100%.


----------



## Defiant00

bretemm said:


> Some sound comes in but it's very faint and I can barely hear it




Do you have anything plugged into the headphone jack? I believe the preamp outs are muted when you have headphones plugged in.

Alternately, try plugging your IEMs directly into the Valhalla to see if you get sound that way?


----------



## Oklahoma

Also, if running the iems with the magni the valhalla2 volume must be at full to pass the signal through to the magni.


----------



## bretemm

THANK YOU now it's working! I'm using the inputs from the modi and outputs to the magni and I'm playing jimi hendrix, the guitar is awesome! 
I did use my IEMs dorectly with the Valhalla2, was that smart with the power? 
My IEMs are still working haha


----------



## bretemm

Does the Valhalla light always stay on? 
I'm now playing the black keys turn blue and it the highs don't sound as pitchy as they do on my iPod or stereo, 
It's nice and even and "space"


----------



## Oklahoma

bretemm said:


> Does the Valhalla light always stay on?
> I'm now playing the black keys turn blue and it the highs don't sound as pitchy as they do on my iPod or stereo,
> It's nice and even and "space"



As long as the Valhalla is on the light is on.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but when I turn it off, 
Does that light always stay on? 
Thanks 
I already hear a quality diffrence and more detail vs the modi and magni, 

How long untill the tube are "broken in"? 





oklahoma said:


> As long as the Valhalla is on the light is on.


----------



## Oklahoma

bretemm said:


> Ok, but when I turn it off,
> Does that light always stay on?
> Thanks
> I already hear a quality diffrence and more detail vs the modi and magni,
> ...



Yes when you turn it off the light goes out. The tubes take about 15 min to warm up and I would give them 50hrs for the sound to settle but they shouldn't change much.


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, well the few times when I was changing the cords to make it all work the light remained on even tho o turned it off, it's working now tho! 
I'm listening to young the giant and the vocals are far better then my iPod and is a improvement from my magni and modi setup, still good on them tho haha, 
I just need better IEMs now 
I'm using a $30 pair of klipsch 3G or s3 (I forgot the name) 





oklahoma said:


> Yes when you turn it off the light goes out. The tubes take about 15 min to warm up and I would give them 50hrs for the sound to settle but they shouldn't change much.


----------



## Billheiser

When you turn off the Valhalla, the indicator light does stay on for a while, and gradually goes out after 10-15 minutes or so. That is normal and proper.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 
Yea it's glowing very dim right now, it's been 20min tho (but very dim) 
The quality was awesome and the vocals and "space" we're great 
The magni and modi together are great but I think I have to say that 
(MODI to VALHALLA2 to MAGNI) 
Is a even better setup and sound vs the other way
Thanks! 





billheiser said:


> When you turn off the Valhalla, the indicator light does stay on for a while, and gradually goes out after 10-15 minutes or so. That is normal and proper.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Thank you!
> Yea it's glowing very dim right now, it's been 20min tho (but very dim)
> The quality was awesome and the vocals and "space" we're great
> The magni and modi together are great but I think I have to say that
> ...


 
Try the Valhalla without the Magni. I bet that's even better. (It is, in my experience with them).


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but tho with "ohms" 
I read that it's not that great to use low ohm IEMs? 
In the manual it said that it can handle sensitive IEMs, but 
Are IEMs ok to directly use with it? 

Thank you 





billheiser said:


> Try the Valhalla without the Magni. I bet that's even better. (It is, in my experience with them).


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Ok, but tho with "ohms"
> I read that it's not that great to use low ohm IEMs?
> In the manual it said that it can handle sensitive IEMs, but
> Are IEMs ok to directly use with it?
> ...



Yes of course. The manual is the gospel. What you read somewhere else is not. Put the Valhalla 2 on low gain and enjoy your IEM's like god intended.


----------



## bretemm

So now hearing the Valhalla2, 
I need to get better IEMs, 
I might go with the klipsch x11i or possibly the RHA t11i but I'm not sure yet.
I like sure but with the filters you get with rha, 
I think I like having that option


----------



## jeremy205100

I think any difference you're noticing with $30 IEMs is purely psychological. Using a $349 headphone amplifier with a $30 pair of earbuds is the equivalent of using a 50 caliber sniper rifle to kill a fly.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but tho I do hear a more open sound with more detail with guitar. 
What IEM would be better to use? 





jeremy205100 said:


> I think any difference you're noticing with $30 IEMs is purely psychological. Using a $349 headphone amplifier with a $30 pair of earbuds is the equivalent of using a 50 caliber sniper rifle to kill a fly.


----------



## Argo Duck

At what number of $ does a difference cease being purely psychological I wonder 

@bretemm enjoy your journey, regardless of what causes the differences you hear. I'm sure there are many who can help you out with IEM suggestions but this might not be the best thread. Why not try a head-fi search?


----------



## magnum703

I just got my LISST tubes for the lyr2. I'm no audiophile and don't know the terms, but compared to the stock tubes, it just doesn't sound as good. Well, it's a different sound lol. I have HD650. I would say the LISST tubes just enhanced the natural sound of the 650! haha. Also, running the LISST tubes the amp doesn't run all that hot at all.


----------



## Tuco1965

I've had opposite results with LISST in my Lyr. These things are great! Excellent results with 3 of my cans. Last night I decided to give the old Sextetts a try and was blown away. I like my glass, but these are great in their own way. At least this has been my experience with them.


----------



## jfoxvol

tuco1965 said:


> I've had opposite results with LISST in my Lyr. These things are great! Excellent results with 3 of my cans. Last night I decided to give the old Sextetts a try and was blown away. I like my glass, but these are great in their own way. At least this has been my experience with them.


 
 I was only briefly able to test out the LISST in my Lyr2.  I played with my HD650s and Audeze LCD3s and I enjoyed the solid state better than stock tubes.  Granted, it was a brief test.  I plan to do some more fiddling this holiday weekend.  Either way, it's great to have the option.


----------



## Tuco1965

It definitely gives a great option.


----------



## TotallyMonkey

Hi all,
  
 I currently have a Modi (original) that I use with my Valhalla 2 and I don't really have any complaints with it, but I want to use this DAC at work with my Magni so I thought I'd get an upgrade for home.  The obvious (to me anyway) choice seems to be the Bifrost.  Would this be a good choice?  Or is there some others I should consider in that general price range.  I kind of like the idea of the Bifrost just based on the fact that it would look good with the Valhalla2 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jfoxvol

totallymonkey said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I currently have a Modi (original) that I use with my Valhalla 2 and I don't really have any complaints with it, but I want to use this DAC at work with my Magni so I thought I'd get an upgrade for home.  The obvious (to me anyway) choice seems to be the Bifrost.  Would this be a good choice?  Or is there some others I should consider in that general price range.  I kind of like the idea of the Bifrost just based on the fact that it would look good with the Valhalla2
> 
> Thanks!


 
 The Bifrost is great but I would strongly recommend the analog board upgrade for it.  I've got a Valhalla 2 and it is a great amp.


----------



## DACattack

I have the Valhalla 2 with a Bifrost Uber and it's a wonderful combination for the price. Heartily recommend the pairing. Works superbly with my HD800s.


----------



## TotallyMonkey

jfoxvol said:


> The Bifrost is great but I would strongly recommend the analog board upgrade for it.  I've got a Valhalla 2 and it is a great amp.


 
  
  


dacattack said:


> I have the Valhalla 2 with a Bifrost Uber and it's a wonderful combination for the price. Heartily recommend the pairing. Works superbly with my HD800s.


 
  
 Sounds good!  I would definitely go for the analog board.  Thanks for the feedback


----------



## velvetx

My analog board just shipped woot woot.


----------



## theblueprint

velvetx said:


> My analog board just shipped woot woot.




Hey man, really enjoying the Mad Dogs you sold me, they've quickly become one of my favorite headphones. I know you'll enjoy the new analog board, it's an amazing upgrade to an already awesome DAC. 



totallymonkey said:


> Sounds good!  I would definitely go for the analog board.  Thanks for the feedback




bifrost uber is a huge step from the original modi. Going back down to the modi, you'll instantly notice how much clearer and wider the stage is on the bifrost uber. It's a real good upgrade.


----------



## RCBinTN

theblueprint said:


> Hey man, really enjoying the Mad Dogs you sold me, they've quickly become one of my favorite headphones. I know you'll enjoy the new analog board, it's an amazing upgrade to an already awesome DAC.
> bifrost uber is a huge step from the original modi. Going back down to the modi, you'll instantly notice how much clearer and wider the stage is on the bifrost uber. It's a real good upgrade.


 
  
 +1 on the sound of the UberFrost.  A decent DAC for the price.  
 I sold mine to a fellow Head-Fier and moved to the Gungnir.  I wanted the balanced option.  Overall better sound than the UberFrost.  Then just recently, I upgraded to the Gumby and it has even better sound.  Very rich, better bass, wider instrument separation.  The instruments sound more realistic with the MB upgrade.
 IMO, these DAC's are hard to beat, for their price.
 I heard the Yggr at a meet (paired with the Rag) and the stack just blew me away with the HD800 and LCD-3F.  End-game Schiit sound.
 So far, I'm quite happy with the Gumby as a decent mid-point.


----------



## bretemm

With tubes with the Valhalla2, 
How often (anyone here that has one)
 do you roll them? 
Where is a good place to order from? 
Or any in general store that carries tubes? 

I watched a video of someone that changed through about 10 types of tubes and I liked acouple of them


----------



## Tuco1965

http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread

You can do some reading there for starters. Note that it is for the original Valhala, but I'm sure there will be lots of useful information for you.


----------



## wahsmoh

Just got my EAD CD-1000 series III from the repair shop I sent it to in Kansas. The laser lens that Pioneer is notorious for glueing onto their transport came off. Fortunately, they were able to find it in the case and it wasn't damaged or dirty. 

Shoutout to Brian at Audio Mart Service Center in Kansas. They repair almost all CD transports and he has done so for over 20 years. If you have an EAD or Pioneer transport that is not reading discs send it to them. 

The EAD CD-1000 is truly a world class CD player. I am really happy with the sound quality and when I get the two paired together I will compare to my Theta DS Pro Progeny. The difference is the EAD uses 2X burr brown PCM-63P-k and 1x PMD100 HDCD decoder/filter. The Theta uses 1x PCM-67P-k and 1X Motorola DSP56001 containing the Moffat filter. I am still rocking my Asgard 2 with both because Schiit has amazing qualiity and I don't believe that amps should make much of a difference if they have enough power.

 I recommend Multi-bit over delta-sigma at this price point. Two DACs from the 90s put the Bifrost Uber into the corner collecting dust. My next goal is to get a GMB or Yggy and move into the modern era.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





tuco1965 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread
> 
> You can do some reading there for starters. Note that it is for the original Valhala, but I'm sure there will be lots of useful information for you.


----------



## zabzaf

Listening Caitlin Rose on my new Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir Multibit rig. Absolutely gorgeous!


----------



## RickB

zabzaf said:


> Listening Caitlin Rose on my new Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir Multibit rig. Absolutely gorgeous!


 
  
 I'm sure the sound is awesome, but looking at that I must say I think that stack is the best looking out of all of Schiit's stuff.


----------



## jfoxvol

rickb said:


> I'm sure the sound is awesome, but looking at that I must say I think that stack is the best looking out of all of Schiit's stuff.


 
 Agreed.  That looks mint.


----------



## ThurstonX

zabzaf said:


> Listening Caitlin Rose on my new Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir Multibit rig. Absolutely gorgeous!


 
  
 Very nice overall setup; neat and elegant.  Now imagine if you had an in-wall cable system to hide those TV cables hanging down.


----------



## zabzaf

thurstonx said:


> Very nice overall setup; neat and elegant.  Now imagine if you had an in-wall cable system to hide those TV cables hanging down.




Good catch...track is ordered, matching paint is queued up and ready.


----------



## ThurstonX

zabzaf said:


> Good catch...track is ordered, matching paint is queued up and ready.


 
  
 I was thinking more like this: http://www.amazon.com/Sanus-ELM806-In-Wall-Management-System/dp/B00C6NQG9S
  
 There are quite a few similar products available.  I forget the brand I used, but it was as simple as using the supplied template and a $4 drywall saw to cut out the shapes for the face plates, and then running the wires and cables.  The only things you need to be aware of are building codes for where you live (ask an electrician; I did; no worries here), and are there any cross-beams/supports/horizontal pieces of wood frame that would block the wires and cables from dropping down behind the drywall.  An inexpensive stud finder should help there.
  
 With a solution like that, your wall remains pristine, vs. having to paint over something.  YMMV, of course.


----------



## zabzaf

thurstonx said:


> I was thinking more like this: http://www.amazon.com/Sanus-ELM806-In-Wall-Management-System/dp/B00C6NQG9S
> 
> There are quite a few similar products available.  I forget the brand I used, but it was as simple as using the supplied template and a $4 drywall saw to cut out the shapes for the face plates, and then running the wires and cables.  The only things you need to be aware of are building codes for where you live (ask an electrician; I did; no worries here), and are there any cross-beams/supports/horizontal pieces of wood frame that would block the wires and cables from dropping down behind the drywall.  An inexpensive stud finder should help there.
> 
> With a solution like that, your wall remains pristine, vs. having to paint over something.  YMMV, of course.




You are correct sir as I did this in the past. It is against local building codes to run the power in the wall as that was the plan. With the $$$ I've spent recently, the cost of having an outlet put in behind the TV will result in me having to find a new place to live, according to my wonderful wife.


----------



## bretemm

For my Valhalla2, I found some IEMs: 
ES100 Earbud $69 (Hifiman)
Frequency Response: 15hz-20hz
Sensitivity: 113dB
Impedance: 150 Ohms 
Driver diameter: 15mm 

Would these be great for the Valhalla2?


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> For my Valhalla2, I found some IEMs:
> ES100 Earbud $69 (Hifiman)
> Frequency Response: 15hz-20hz
> Sensitivity: 113dB
> ...


 
 They certainly have high enough impedance to work.  I'd recommend the low power mode for the lowest noise possible when using IEMs.  Just looking at numbers, I'd say they should be fine.


----------



## ThurstonX

zabzaf said:


> You are correct sir as I did this in the past. It is against local building codes to run the power in the wall as that was the plan. With the $$$ I've spent recently, the cost of having an outlet put in behind the TV will result in me having to find a new place to live, according to my wonderful wife.


 
  
 The whole point of the in-wall solution is that you aren't running a standard/generic/consumer power cord behind the wall.  That would indeed be dangerous, and should violate every building code in any country.  The kits you can buy come with wiring designed to be installed behind walls and meet most building code standards.  Just wanted to clear that up.  It may well be that your local code still prohibits it.  I imagine insurance companies have a lot of say in this matter.


----------



## bretemm

Great, 
I found some klipsch x11i and x7i that are at 50Ohms but there over $199. 
I have to order the Hifiman because nothing is ever Instock at bestbuy most of the time.





jfoxvol said:


> They certainly have high enough impedance to work.  I'd recommend the low power mode for the lowest noise possible when using IEMs.  Just looking at numbers, I'd say they should be fine.


----------



## bretemm

Except tho on the site it says that the higiman IEMs are easy to drive even tho they have high numbers 





jfoxvol said:


> They certainly have high enough impedance to work.  I'd recommend the low power mode for the lowest noise possible when using IEMs.  Just looking at numbers, I'd say they should be fine.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Except tho on the site it says that the higiman IEMs are easy to drive even tho they have high numbers


 
 With a OTL amp like the Valhalla 2, the higher the impedance the better, in general.  I think those would be ok.


----------



## money4me247

zabzaf said:


> You are correct sir as I did this in the past. It is against local building codes to run the power in the wall as that was the plan. With the $$$ I've spent recently, the cost of having an outlet put in behind the TV will result in me having to find a new place to live, according to my wonderful wife.


 
 saving your family from being kicked out onto the streets!! great catch  both with the building code & the wife =D


----------



## olor1n

rickb said:


> zabzaf said:
> 
> 
> > Listening Caitlin Rose on my new Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir Multibit rig. Absolutely gorgeous!
> ...




Agreed. The Ragnarok is a great sounding amp but it's a ugly behemoth compared to the Mjolnir aesthetics IMO.


----------



## bretemm

I joined the Schiit Valhalla tube rolling thread but it looks like not allot of people are active?

My question is now getting into tubes is, 
Has anyone rolled tubes for some that go well with the GreatfulDead? 
To me they have a warm sound that fills up the air and room kinda, so, what would be some good tubes? 

Thanks, and also, so only the fromt tubes can be changed?


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> I joined the Schiit Valhalla tube rolling thread but it looks like not allot of people are active?
> 
> My question is now getting into tubes is,
> Has anyone rolled tubes for some that go well with the GreatfulDead?
> ...




The thread might be not as active, but that doesn't mean you can't search through the thread. Even if you can't find any mention of your band, see what people are listening to and extrapolate that kind of information to see if it fits with your musical tastes and your listening goals. 

A lot of the questions you ask could've been solved by doing what I just suggested. Put in some work man.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, well I know what I'm looking for as far as sound, but, as far as a convenient place to get tubes quickly, I'm not sure where to get any. 





theblueprint said:


> The thread might be not as active, but that doesn't mean you can't search through the thread. Even if you can't find any mention of your band, see what people are listening to and extrapolate that kind of information to see if it fits with your musical tastes and your listening goals.
> 
> A lot of the questions you ask could've been solved by doing what I just suggested. Put in some work man.


----------



## bretemm

I've now used my new Valhalla2 a handful of times now (possibly about 3 hours or a little over) and vs my magni and modi, the V2 seems more of a open farther away sound (good) and not as upfront loud as the magni and modi. It seems like I can go louder with the V2 and it dosnt fatigue my ears as much and I hear more detail. I would always end up not hearing well after listened to the magni + modi, for some reason I'm not wanting to turn the volume up allot on the V2. 
(A tube keeps being loose after I turn it off tho basicly everytime, the 2 short tubes are fine)


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> I've now used my new Valhalla2 a handful of times now (possibly about 3 hours or a little over) and vs my magni and modi, the V2 seems more of a open farther away sound (good) and not as upfront loud as the magni and modi. It seems like I can go louder with the V2 and it dosnt fatigue my ears as much and I hear more detail. I would always end up not hearing well after listened to the magni + modi, for some reason I'm not wanting to turn the volume up allot on the V2.
> (A tube keeps being loose after I turn it off tho basicly everytime, the 2 short tubes are fine)


 

 I also prefer the sound of the Valhalla2 over the Magni.
 As you found out when you got the Valhalla2, the tubes require some force to seat fully.  I suggest that after you turn off the amp, and let it discharge fully (20 minutes or so), then remove the tube that is loose, and re-seat it firmly.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well I'll set it and it dosnt move, but then it just becomes loose and when I turn it on it moves out of place. I wish there was a close audio place that I could get socket savers and and new in the future. How long do tubes take to "break in"? 





billheiser said:


> I also prefer the sound of the Valhalla2 over the Magni.
> As you found out when you got the Valhalla2, the tubes require some force to seat fully.  I suggest that after you turn off the amp, and let it discharge fully (20 minutes or so), then remove the tube that is loose, and re-seat it firmly.


----------



## bretemm

My klipsch 3G (I think is the name) I think do better on the v2, I looked it up and there a 16ohm IEM, some klipsch IEMs I like are 50ohms, the x7i and X11. Then there's another IEM that's like 150ohms and 100 sensitivity, but I'm not too sure about it. 





billheiser said:


> I also prefer the sound of the Valhalla2 over the Magni.
> As you found out when you got the Valhalla2, the tubes require some force to seat fully.  I suggest that after you turn off the amp, and let it discharge fully (20 minutes or so), then remove the tube that is loose, and re-seat it firmly.


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone know if there's a diffrence between the modi and the Bifrost? 

I'm thinking of getting the bifrost latter on, possibly to use with my marantz, but, 
What are the pros and cons to upgrading to the bifrost from my modi? 

Thabks


----------



## mikebarber1

I've got a Bifrost with Uber Analog, I purchased after listening to a friends Magni/Modi setup. There is a difference, it's slight but the Bifrost has a better sound. My Bifrost sounds less muddy compared my buddies modi. That's not saying the Modi is muddy sounding by any means but to me there was a difference and Bifrost was the winner.
  
 I can't tell you how it compares to the Modi 2, I haven't had the opportunity to listen to one of those yet.


----------



## bretemm

Thanks, 
I got a magni + modi over a year ago and I just recently got the Valhalla2, 
I'm not really into using USB but I like the optical audio on the modi, 
If I did get usb I would use it with my Mac and or get the WYRD and connext it to my stereo. A main thing I might do if I get the bifrost is use it with my stereo, but since it's only 2.1 channels I'm not sure. 
If I got another smaller receiver that has a small channel like a 2.1 I would rather have the bifrost designated to a different stereo just for it. 
(Have you ever tried the valhalla2?) 





mikebarber1 said:


> I've got a Bifrost with Uber Analog, I purchased after listening to a friends Magni/Modi setup. There is a difference, it's slight but the Bifrost has a better sound. My Bifrost sounds less muddy compared my buddies modi. That's not saying the Modi is muddy sounding by any means but to me there was a difference and Bifrost was the winner.
> 
> I can't tell you how it compares to the Modi 2, I haven't had the opportunity to listen to one of those yet.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Thanks,
> I got a magni + modi over a year ago and I just recently got the Valhalla2,
> I'm not really into using USB but I like the optical audio on the modi,
> If I did get usb I would use it with my Mac and or get the WYRD and connext it to my stereo. A main thing I might do if I get the bifrost is use it with my stereo, but since it's only 2.1 channels I'm not sure.
> ...


 
  
 I currently have the Bifrost / Asgard 2 combo. I ordered the Valhalla 2 last week with a delivery ETA of this Thursday.
  
 Btw - I use the USB input on the Bifrost with my MacBook Pro and it's been flawless.


----------



## bretemm

Ok great, so with USB, I don't know if it was someone using windows or if it was a Mac but, someone mentioned eather their computer recognized the Schiit usb as a virus or they ended up getting one or possibly it was just software on the computer protecting that unknown source untill it was recognized. BUT IM NOT SURE WHEN THAT POST WAS I just saw that someone had a problem. 





mikebarber1 said:


> I currently have the Bifrost / Asgard 2 combo. I ordered the Valhalla 2 last week with a delivery ETA of this Thursday.
> 
> Btw - I use the USB input on the Bifrost with my MacBook Pro and it's been flawless.


----------



## bretemm

So is the usb upgrade worth the $100? I think that if I do get the usb then I would go with setting up the bifrost on a separate av receiver and have the usb connected to my computer. (To make most of the 2 channels) I like a surround sound more, I think I'll look into getting towers at some point for that. 





bretemm said:


> Ok great, so with USB, I don't know if it was someone using windows or if it was a Mac but, someone mentioned eather their computer recognized the Schiit usb as a virus or they ended up getting one or possibly it was just software on the computer protecting that unknown source untill it was recognized. BUT IM NOT SURE WHEN THAT POST WAS I just saw that someone had a problem.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Ok great, so with USB, I don't know if it was someone using windows or if it was a Mac but, someone mentioned eather their computer recognized the Schiit usb as a virus or they ended up getting one or possibly it was just software on the computer protecting that unknown source untill it was recognized. BUT IM NOT SURE WHEN THAT POST WAS I just saw that someone had a problem.


 
  
 I find someone getting a virus from installing drivers for the Bifrost very hard to believe. More than likely their Anti-Virus overreacted or misclassified the drivers.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> So is the usb upgrade worth the $100? I think that if I do get the usb then I would go with setting up the bifrost on a separate av receiver and have the usb connected to my computer. (To make most of the 2 channels) I like a surround sound more, I think I'll look into getting towers at some point for that.


 
  
 It's worth the $ if you don't have optical or digital audio out on your computer already and want to play music from a computer.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> So is the usb upgrade worth the $100? I think that if I do get the usb then I would go with setting up the bifrost on a separate av receiver and have the usb connected to my computer. (To make most of the 2 channels) I like a surround sound more, I think I'll look into getting towers at some point for that.




Absolutely worth it. Bests so many usb/spdif converters out there at higher prices. Plenty of info around headfi on that. I'd absolutely get the uber analog first, then decide if you need usb. If you're hooking to a computer, go for it. Later, a wyrd or similar device MAY offer increased performance beyond that.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well I have a headphone jack, is usb better then that? 
Thanks 





mikebarber1 said:


> It's worth the $ if you don't have optical or digital audio out on your computer already and want to play music from a computer.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but what's tve diffrence with the uber analog vs without? If I get that, then would t I pay over $1k? Bifrost+ uber analog= $1k? 





jfoxvol said:


> Absolutely worth it. Bests so many usb/spdif converters out there at higher prices. Plenty of info around headfi on that. I'd absolutely get the uber analog first, then decide if you need usb. If you're hooking to a computer, go for it. Later, a wyrd or similar device MAY offer increased performance beyond that.


----------



## bretemm

Yea I'm thinking it was probably that, or they download bad music from a 3rd party source 





mikebarber1 said:


> I find someone getting a virus from installing drivers for the Bifrost very hard to believe. More than likely their Anti-Virus overreacted or misclassified the drivers.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Ok, well I have a headphone jack, is usb better then that?
> Thanks


 
  
 Apples and oranges.  A headphone jack is going to be analog.  You *might* have a digital out on a "soundcard" that you could use with a 3.5 mm plug.  Only you and your PC can answer that one.  USB is, by its nature, digital.  A DAC, by its nature, takes a Digital signal and Converts it to Analog.
  
 The three typical methods of sending a digital signal out from a PC are USB, optical and coax(ial), the latter two falling under the S/P-DIF (usually written as SPDIF) standard.  Someone may correct me re: S/P-DIF.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Ok, but what's tve diffrence with the uber analog vs without? If I get that, then would t I pay over $1k? Bifrost+ uber analog= $1k?


 
  
 I can't answer that, since I got mine with the Uber Analog already in it.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so if I can ask, with the uber analog add on, so the cost is over $1k? For the bifrost uber? Thanks 





mikebarber1 said:


> I can't answer that, since I got mine with the Uber Analog already in it.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Ok, so if I can ask, with the uber analog add on, so the cost is over $1k? For the bifrost uber? Thanks


 
  
 If you go look http://schiit.com/products/bifrost with all the bells and whistles (Uber analog and USB) it's $519 USD
  
 I feel like a pitch man - I swear I don't work for them - I am just a fan of their products.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Ok, so if I can ask, with the uber analog add on, so the cost is over $1k? For the bifrost uber? Thanks


 
  
 Spec it out at Schiit's website.  It will give you the total.  Having bought the Bifrost with the Gen 2 USB and Uber Analog upgrades, I can assure you it's less than $600, unless some tsunami of inflation suddenly engulfed southern California.


----------



## bretemm

Ok thank you! 





thurstonx said:


> Spec it out at Schiit's website.  It will give you the total.  Having bought the Bifrost with the Gen 2 USB and Uber Analog upgrades, I can assure you it's less than $600, unless some tsunami of inflation suddenly engulfed southern California.


----------



## carterxl

I have the Modi 2 Uber and also the Bifrost with Analog Uber. The differences are there, but if it is worth the price difference I am not sure. I feel the Bifrost sounds a bit more clear.

For me was the decision to go with these 2 setups the size also. In one room I wanted to have a tube amp, which is the Lyr 2, and with that the Bifrost fits perfectly together. The combination Lyr and Bifrost is great with different cans. Especially the AKG 701 and 7xx became much better.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, is the uber analog more for big headphones? Or could or work with IEMs? 





carterxl said:


> I have the Modi 2 Uber and also the Bifrost with Analog Uber. The differences are there, but if it is worth the price difference I am not sure. I feel the Bifrost sounds a bit more clear.
> 
> For me was the decision to go with these 2 setups the size also. In one room I wanted to have a tube amp, which is the Lyr 2, and with that the Bifrost fits perfectly together. The combination Lyr and Bifrost is great with different cans. Especially the AKG 701 and 7xx became much better.


----------



## Oklahoma

bretemm said:


> Thank you, is the uber analog more for big headphones? Or could or work with IEMs?


no the uber analog is a better dac than the regular version just like the multibit is an upgrade to the regular gungnir.


----------



## artur9

carterxl said:


> I have the Modi 2 Uber and also the Bifrost with Analog Uber. The differences are there, but if it is worth the price difference I am not sure. I feel the Bifrost sounds a bit more clear.


 
 One of the big reasons to go with the Bifrost over the Modi is that the Bifrost is upgradable.
  
 So, you could start with the base Bifrost if that's all you need.  Then later add USB if that's necessary or do the Uber upgrade.  In fact, the original USB implementation for the Bifrost was replaced with the improved USB implementation that was done for the Gungnir.  
  
 If one had bought the original base Bifrost when first offered then there have been 3 possible upgrades:  original USB, Uber analog, and gen  2 USB.
  
 Theoretically, sometime in the future, Schiit may offer an R2R upgrade, similar to the Gungnir R2R upgrade and maybe a gen 3 USB.  But that's speculative.


----------



## bretemm

Great, but in General, how much bestter is the uber vs the regular bifrost? I think using the bifrost with a receiver is when I would upgrade it, I can only use IEMs and I think a 2.1 stereo setup might be better for it. 
But, with all the connections inbetween usb/coaxl/optical audio, which is best for music quality? 
Thank you 





artur9 said:


> One of the big reasons to go with the Bifrost over the Modi is that the Bifrost is upgradable.
> 
> So, you could start with the base Bifrost if that's all you need.  Then later add USB if that's necessary or do the Uber upgrade.  In fact, the original USB implementation for the Bifrost was replaced with the improved USB implementation that was done for the Gungnir.
> 
> ...


----------



## Aegruin

bretemm said:


> Great, but in General, how much bestter is the uber vs the regular bifrost? I think using the bifrost with a receiver is when I would upgrade it, I can only use IEMs and I think a 2.1 stereo setup might be better for it.
> But, with all the connections inbetween usb/coaxl/optical audio, which is best for music quality?
> Thank you


 
 I've made many tests about this matter. Coax and Toslink is little smoother than USB. It's probably because of the path getting shorter with Toslink from mainboard's and DAC's side compared to USB. Beside that there is no diffrence about anything. Some people keep saying "Jitter" but I haven't notice anything about that. Hearing jitter on a 192/24 device would be impossible.
 I'm using Modi 2 Uber but I know people who says Bifrost is better with Toslink. I wouldn't say better but according to him it is better.
 And I have to say C-Media USB chip isn't the most durable thing, my USB side got burned, I'm using Toslink now.


----------



## Tuco1965

I've been using USB exclusively with my Uberfrost with very good results.


----------



## Mediahound

zabzaf said:


> Listening Caitlin Rose on my new Mjolnir 2 / Gungnir Multibit rig. Absolutely gorgeous!


 

 The stack looks very nice in your setup.


----------



## ThurstonX

I did a brief test between USB and a coax out from my M-Audio 192 card (so, no slouch).  It was tough to hear any significant difference.  Since my M-Audio is the PC's default audio device, I prefer USB, as it lets me select it in foobar2000 while using Windows Media Center or any other program that uses the sound card.  I do have a Schiit Wyrd in the chain.  In a previous test I recall preferring USB.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, as far as usb if I upgraded or not, I think I would rather have usb on a external drive connected to the bifrost possibly, or just by the optical audio. I wonder if Schiit will ever add 2 sets of rca in then rca out on the bifrost latter on. 





aegruin said:


> I've made many tests about this matter. Coax and Toslink is little smoother than USB. It's probably because of the path getting shorter with Toslink from mainboard's and DAC's side compared to USB. Beside that there is no diffrence about anything. Some people keep saying "Jitter" but I haven't notice anything about that. Hearing jitter on a 192/24 device would be impossible.
> I'm using Modi 2 Uber but I know people who says Bifrost is better with Toslink. I wouldn't say better but according to him it is better.
> And I have to say C-Media USB chip isn't the most durable thing, my USB side got burned, I'm using Toslink now.


----------



## bretemm

Do you know how well the bifrost quality shows through speakers on a av reciever? 





thurstonx said:


> I did a brief test between USB and a coax out from my M-Audio 192 card (so, no slouch).  It was tough to hear any significant difference.  Since my M-Audio is the PC's default audio device, I prefer USB, as it lets me select it in foobar2000 while using Windows Media Center or any other program that uses the sound card.  I do have a Schiit Wyrd in the chain.  In a previous test I recall preferring USB.


----------



## kenman345

This is probably a bit of a silly setup, but for now my constraints are needing the headphone amp to be small to fit in a certain space. Anyone see any reason why a Gungnir Multi-Bit and a Magni 2 Uber wouldn't be a nice pairing for CIEMs and some 32 Ohm and 50 Ohm headphones?


----------



## Tuco1965

bretemm said:


> Do you know how well the bifrost quality shows through speakers on a av reciever?




I have my Bifrost connected to both my Lyr and my Yamaha receiver. The Bifrost sounds fantastic in a speaker setup.


----------



## jfoxvol

kenman345 said:


> This is probably a bit of a silly setup, but for now my constraints are needing the headphone amp to be small to fit in a certain space. Anyone see any reason why a Gungnir Multi-Bit and a Magni 2 Uber wouldn't be a nice pairing for CIEMs and some 32 Ohm and 50 Ohm headphones?


 
 I use my Vali with my Yggdrasil often.  Nothing silly about it.  Those little amps are great.


----------



## bretemm

great, i kinda like a surround sound but then if i get great towers i don't mind having a 2.1 setup.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Thank you, as far as usb if I upgraded or not, I think I would rather have usb on a external drive connected to the bifrost possibly, or just by the optical audio.* I wonder if Schiit will ever add 2 sets of rca in then rca out on the bifrost latter on.*


 
  
 Do yourself a favor and learn what a DAC is and how it operates on just the basic level.  A DAC takes a *D*igital signal _*in*_ and *C*onverts it to an *A*nalog signal, which it then *outputs*, generally via RCA.  The coax *in* will use the RCA form factor.  Are you saying that you're wondering if Schiit is going to add a *second* coax IN to the Bifrost?  If so, then I'm pretty sure the answer is No.  If, by "2 sets of RCA in" you're referring to an analog signal, go back to square one about how a DAC works.
  
 Regardless, I wouldn't bet on the Bifrost changing its INs and OUTs.
  
 As to USB on an external drive, I'm not sure how that relates to the Bifrost.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Do you know how well the bifrost quality shows through speakers on a av reciever?


 
  
 The Bifrost is a 2-channel DAC, so you're only ever going to get two channels OUT of it.  If your AV receiver does some fake surround like CS II or whatever, you can get sound out of all your speakers.  Depending on your setup, that might be preferable (it is using my old Kenwood AVR to some mid-range JBLs).
  
 As to quality, you'll have to hear it for yourself.  It's all about the synergy.  The Bifrost certainly won't suck.  I like it with my speaker amp and Polk RTi A1s, esp. with the Lyr acting as preamp.
  
 YMMV.


----------



## Nitori

thurstonx said:


> Do yourself a favor and learn what a DAC is and how it operates on just the basic level.  A DAC takes a *D*igital signal _*in*_ and *C*onverts it to an *A*nalog signal, which it then *outputs*, generally via RCA.  The coax *in* will use the RCA form factor.  Are you saying that you're wondering if Schiit is going to add a *second* coax IN to the Bifrost?  If so, then I'm pretty sure the answer is No.  If, by "2 sets of RCA in" you're referring to an analog signal, go back to square one about how a DAC works.
> 
> Regardless, I wouldn't bet on the Bifrost changing its INs and OUTs.
> 
> As to USB on an external drive, I'm not sure how that relates to the Bifrost.


 
 2 RCA out is not a bad idea though....the only reason I haven't bought one yet is the lack of a 2nd pair of RCA out to connect to my speaker amp......


----------



## MWSVette

nitori said:


> 2 RCA out is not a bad idea though....the only reason I haven't bought one yet is the lack of a 2nd pair of RCA out to connect to my speaker amp......


 

 Use an RCA Y splitter.


----------



## reddog

I just got the MJ2 and have hooked it up to the GMB and am quite pleased with the tube like synergy. I will burn in the MJ2 and see if the sound signature ages or cures itself.


----------



## artur9

bretemm said:


> Do you know how well the bifrost quality shows through speakers on a av reciever?


 

 I use my Uber exclusively that way.  Sounds fantastic.  Imaging is very very good.  The sound stage slightly narrower vs my analog rig (currently busted ;-( ).
  
 The Uber has been better than the DAC in my Blu Ray player and my older processor.  I prefer it to the DACs in my current processor and to a North Star I had for a few months.
  
 But in all cases the differences were slight.  Except that the Uber is much less fatiguing than most of the other DACs I compared it to.


----------



## ThurstonX

nitori said:


> 2 RCA out is not a bad idea though....the only reason I haven't bought one yet is the lack of a 2nd pair of RCA out to connect to my speaker amp......


 
  


mwsvette said:


> Use an RCA Y splitter.


 
  
 +1 to that.  I just added a pair to split the Bifrost's OUT to the Lyr and the SYS (and on to a speaker amp).  I think I paid $5 + $0.99 shipping for both from Walmart (pre-DIY days   They're nice and short and work like a coupla champs.  Enjoying 'em as I type 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If you read Schiit's FAQ for the SYS, they reference Y cables at least once.


----------



## Nitori

thurstonx said:


> +1 to that.  I just added a pair to split the Bifrost's OUT to the Lyr and the SYS (and on to a speaker amp).  I think I paid $5 + $0.99 shipping for both from Walmart (pre-DIY days   They're nice and short and work like a coupla champs.  Enjoying 'em as I type
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I still don't quite get how that should look like......
  
 so you use 2 splitters, one for each channel of the Bifrosts RCA out, then connect the two ends of one splitter to the same channel of your headphone amp and speaker amp (and the same thing with the other splitter)?


----------



## MWSVette

nitori said:


> I still don't quite get how that should look like......
> 
> so you use 2 splitters, one for each channel of the Bifrosts RCA out, then connect the two ends of one splitter to the same channel of your headphone amp and speaker amp (and the same thing with the other splitter)?


 

 Yes, exactly...
  
 Use something like:
  
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-adapter-male-female-assembly/dp/B0009MFRW0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441750636&sr=8-1&keywords=rca+splitter+gold
  
 or
  
http://www.amazon.com/Plated-Splitter-Adapter-Atomic-Market/dp/B00AX2D34K/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1441750636&sr=8-5&keywords=rca+splitter+gold
  
 or even cheaper
  
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-YRA-104-Male-Female-Cable/dp/B000068O4Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441750765&sr=8-1&keywords=rca+y+cable


----------



## Nitori

And that won't deteriorate the signal? I remember reading that using y-splitters to connect 2 headphones to one amp isnt a good idea. So I thought it might be the same in this case  Maybe entirely different cases though.....


----------



## MWSVette

nitori said:


> And that won't deteriorate the signal? I remember reading that using y-splitters to connect 2 headphones to one amp isnt a good idea. So I thought it might be the same in this case  Maybe entirely different cases though.....


 

 No, the signal will be fine and yes that is a different situation with headphones versus line signals...


----------



## Nitori

mwsvette said:


> No, the signal will be fine and yes that is a different situation with headphones versus line signals...


 
  
 Alright then, thanks for pointing this out


----------



## ThurstonX

nitori said:


> I still don't quite get how that should look like......
> 
> so you use 2 splitters, one for each channel of the Bifrosts RCA out, then connect the two ends of one splitter to the same channel of your headphone amp and speaker amp (and the same thing with the other splitter)?


 
  


mwsvette said:


> Yes, exactly...
> 
> Use something like:
> 
> ...


 
  
 What @MWSVette said.  I use ones like the Hosa (they might be Hosa).  It's a fine brand.  Handy for connecting a sub to an AVR, too.
  
 Thanks for replying.  I was busy watching the end of the 4th set of the US Open 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


nitori said:


> And that won't deteriorate the signal? I remember reading that using y-splitters to connect 2 headphones to one amp isnt a good idea. So I thought it might be the same in this case  Maybe entirely different cases though.....


 
  


mwsvette said:


> No, the signal will be fine and yes that is a different situation with headphones versus line signals...


 
  
 Exactly.  You can bet Schiit wouldn't link to the ultra-budget Monoprice solution if they thought it would degrade the signal.
  
 A pair of Y cables and the SYS (already owned it) give me three INs to my dual-IN speaker amp.  Covers my main needs nicely.  Comparing the speaker amp with and without the Lyr as preamp is a push of the SYS button away.


----------



## bretemm

In just wondering, that's all 





thurstonx said:


> Do yourself a favor and learn what a DAC is and how it operates on just the basic level.  A DAC takes a *D*igital signal _*in*_ and *C*onverts it to an *A*nalog signal, which it then *outputs*, generally via RCA.  The coax *in* will use the RCA form factor.  Are you saying that you're wondering if Schiit is going to add a *second* coax IN to the Bifrost?  If so, then I'm pretty sure the answer is No.  If, by "2 sets of RCA in" you're referring to an analog signal, go back to square one about how a DAC works.
> 
> Regardless, I wouldn't bet on the Bifrost changing its INs and OUTs.
> 
> As to USB on an external drive, I'm not sure how that relates to the Bifrost.


----------



## Tuco1965

I use these http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-pcs-Gold-Plated-1-Male-to-2-Female-RCA-Splitter-Adapter-AV-Video-Audio-/161189631082?hash=item2587a6946a adapters to split the Bifrost signal.

In fact I bought several variations of these. They are solid and work well.


----------



## bretemm

I've now have used my Valhalla2 for about 5 hours in all since I've gotten it. 
The tubes are glowing about the same. 
The 2 front tubes are about even Brightness but the 2 tubes in the back are a little dimmer but now about even, the right one was dimmer then the left a little. 

The vocals are really sounding good now and the background music is showing more (I think) and its kinda a warm sound I think. 
Vs my magni and modi, I can turn the volume up more on the Valhalla and the sound dosnt sound "in my ear" but more of a "space sound" that's good.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> I've now have used my Valhalla2 for about 5 hours in all since I've gotten it.
> The tubes are glowing about the same.
> The 2 front tubes are about even Brightness but the 2 tubes in the back are a little dimmer but now about even, the right one was dimmer then the left a little.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm jealous, mine is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. What headphones are you using with it?


----------



## bretemm

I'm using some klipsch 3G IEM (it's before the klipsch s4i ) I looked and the 3G is 16ohms, I'm looking to get 50ohm klipsch x7i or the X11 but I'm not sure yet, I would like to get shures like the 425 or 535 but I might just go with klipsch. 





mikebarber1 said:


> I'm jealous, mine is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. What headphones are you using with it?


----------



## bretemm

Have you gotten your Valhalla2 yet? 





mikebarber1 said:


> I'm jealous, mine is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. What headphones are you using with it?


----------



## bretemm

So with Schiit and iptical audio, 
Apple just came out with the new Apple TV and it dosnt have optical audio but still a hdmi. 
Does anyone think Schiit will look at doing HDMI in the future? I know of course I'm not limited to only using a Apple TV with my dac but, it's a main popular way.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Have you gotten your Valhalla2 yet?


 
  
 Not yet, on the truck for delivery.


----------



## bretemm

Nice, the front short tubes are easy to place but for me the back tubes took some time to get them sturdy and not poping out 





mikebarber1 said:


> Not yet, on the truck for delivery.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Nice, the front short tubes are easy to place but for me the back tubes took some time to get them sturdy and not poping out


 
  
 Thanks for the warning.


----------



## bretemm

Yep! When you have it setup, tell me how evenly they all light up?, 
my back right tube was dimmer then the rest at first and the 2 short ones seem brighter. 
I deffiney hear a diffrence and sound quality 





mikebarber1 said:


> Thanks for the warning.


----------



## Mediahound

bretemm said:


> Yep! When you have it setup, tell me how evenly they all light up?,
> my back right tube was dimmer then the rest at first and the 2 short ones seem brighter.
> I deffiney hear a diffrence and sound quality


 

 Just FYI, brighter tubes actually typically mean older. That said, sometimes tubes of the same age can also burn at different brightness.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, Schiit said that they'll usually last about 200 days 





mediahound said:


> Just FYI, brighter tubes actually typically mean older. That said, sometimes tubes of the same age can also burn at different brightness.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Thank you, Schiit said that they'll usually last about 200 days


 
  
 200 days of continuous usage or 200 days at X hours a day?


----------



## ThurstonX

mikebarber1 said:


> 200 days of continuous usage or 200 days at X hours a day?


 
  
 200 x 24 = 4,800.  The 6DJ8/ECC88 type is rated for 5,000 hours.  The 6922/E88CC type (and others; E188CC, et al.) is rated for 10,000 hours.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so really it could be acouple years untill I have to order more? 





thurstonx said:


> 200 x 24 = 4,800.  The 6DJ8/ECC88 type is rated for 5,000 hours.  The 6922/E88CC type (and others; E188CC, et al.) is rated for 10,000 hours.


----------



## Mediahound

In reality they will last multiples longer since you are not leaving the amp on 24/7. I know people who are still on the same tubes years later.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Yep! When you have it setup, tell me how evenly they all light up?,
> my back right tube was dimmer then the rest at first and the 2 short ones seem brighter.
> I deffiney hear a diffrence and sound quality


 
  
 There are slightly different brightness levels between the tubes.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, for me I think it was about 3-5 hours of use untill I noticed a nice warm steady sound. For me the valhalla adds even more space, have you noticed that? 





mikebarber1 said:


> There are slightly different brightness levels between the tubes.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Ok, for me I think it was about 3-5 hours of use untill I noticed a nice warm steady sound. For me the valhalla adds even more space, have you noticed that?


 
  
 I only had 2 hours with it till it was time to go home (my setup lives at work). 
 I immediately noticed more and better bass with the Sennheiser HD-650's on the Valhalla 2 vs Asgard 2. So far I am thoroughly enjoying the pairing. 
  
 And despite the advice from Schiit tech Nick against running the Shure SE 846-CL's with the Valhalla 2, it did work with them (I had to try).


----------



## bretemm

Great, 
You have the Shure IEM se846? How are they? Those are my goal kinda to save up for. 





mikebarber1 said:


> I only had 2 hours with it till it was time to go home (my setup lives at work).
> I immediately noticed more and better bass with the Sennheiser HD-650's on the Valhalla 2 vs Asgard 2. So far I am thoroughly enjoying the pairing.
> 
> And despite the advice from Schiit tech Nick against running the Shure SE 846-CL's with the Valhalla 2, it did work with them (I had to try).


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Great,
> You have the Shure IEM se846? How are they? Those are my goal kinda to save up for.


 
  
 Very impressive bass response out of such a tiny device. The mids and highs are on point, clear and precise without being screechy or fatiguing.  Sound quality is just like having a full set of high end cans on your head, except you don't... The only down side is there isn't much space to the sound because the drivers are inside your ear.
  
 They can be difficult to get in your ear right though. Ya have to find the right tip and jam em in your ear enough so they seal. If they don't seal then you get zero bass. The swappable filters inside the nozzle are handy for tweaking the sound to your liking. It's not a gimmick, they do what they say.
  
 I found a seller on ebay listing them as a display model for about $800. When I got em the box had never been open so I lucked out on that one.


----------



## bretemm

Great, so are they worth the $1k? I want to get them but in not sure, so Nick T said not to use them with Schiit? The specs seem like they could of had higher ohms for that price. I'm going to plan on getting them one day 





mikebarber1 said:


> Very impressive bass response out of such a tiny device. The mids and highs are on point, clear and precise without being screechy or fatiguing.  Sound quality is just like having a full set of high end cans on your head, except you don't... The only down side is there isn't much space to the sound because the drivers are inside your ear.
> 
> They can be difficult to get in your ear right though. Ya have to find the right tip and jam em in your ear enough so they seal. If they don't seal then you get zero bass. The swappable filters inside the nozzle are handy for tweaking the sound to your liking. It's not a gimmick, they do what they say.
> 
> I found a seller on ebay listing them as a display model for about $800. When I got em the box had never been open so I lucked out on that one.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Great, so are they worth the $1k? I want to get them but in not sure, so Nick T said not to use them with Schiit? The specs seem like they could of had higher ohms for that price. I'm going to plan on getting them one day



Ohms and price have nothing to do with each other.


----------



## bretemm

I know, but for handling more power like with Amp+Dac, i wish the ohms were more 





billheiser said:


> Ohms and price have nothing to do with each other.


----------



## money4me247

bretemm said:


> Great, so are they worth the $1k? I want to get them but in not sure, so Nick T said not to use them with Schiit? The specs seem like they could of had higher ohms for that price. I'm going to plan on getting them one day


 
 ohms of headphones and sound quality also unrelated btw.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> I know, but for handling more power like with Amp+Dac, i wish the ohms were more


 And if wishes were horses we all would ride.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Great, so are they worth the $1k? I want to get them but in not sure, so Nick T said not to use them with Schiit? The specs seem like they could of had higher ohms for that price. I'm going to plan on getting them one day


 
  
 They're worth it if you want earbuds. Nick @ Schiit said not to use them with the Valhalla 2, I've used them with an Asgard 2 for months now and have had no problems.


----------



## bretemm

Great, why not use them with the V2? I do have my v2 has a pass through when I want. 





mikebarber1 said:


> They're worth it if you want earbuds. Nick @ Schiit said not to use them with the Valhalla 2, I've used them with an Asgard 2 for months now and have had no problems.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Great, why not use them with the V2? I do have my v2 has a pass through when I want.


 
  
 Probably because of the impedance of the buds, the specs say the impedance is 9 ohms.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I wish I could use those with it, Im still going to save up for them, not sure when tho. I've been waning a headphone quality iem, I'll definetly get them one day 





mikebarber1 said:


> Probably because of the impedance of the buds, the specs say the impedance is 9 ohms.


----------



## sikki-six

I received my Lyr 2 a few days ago. I've used it with my LCD-2.1 and HD600 phones with very good results. (Previously I drove all my phones from Apogee Duet's headphone out.)
  
 All the mid-bass boominess seems to have vanished, with some nice thump added to the sub-bass region. Also all the instruments seem to come from a wider stereo-field. One thing I liked a bit more with the Duet - highs had some more sizzle and presence with the Audezes. Maybe the LISST "tubes" help bring back some SS-attack to the high frequencies, well see... Since I ordered a pair a few days ago 
  
 Tube rolling is not something I'm looking forward to. Hopefully I'll be getting what I need with LISSTs.
  
 BTW: what do you guys think about the DAC-section of the 1st gen Duets? Are there much better DACs for "reasonable" prices? I'm using Duet's DAC right now.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## madwolfa

> You have the Shure IEM se846? How are they? Those are my goal kinda to save up for.


 
  
 If you ever buy them, do yourself a favor and order some custom Sensaphonics sleeves.


----------



## The Lamonster

When using a Modi 2 Uber, which connection type is going to offer the best sound quality?  
  
 I'd assume optical, although USB is pretty much the standard nowadays.  I don't know if it's the standard because it's so universal or if it offers the best sound quality.   I know PC to USB can sometimes have interference, which can be cleaned up with something like the Wyrd, but would it be better to just skip the Wyrd and go optical?


----------



## jfoxvol

the lamonster said:


> When using a Modi 2 Uber, which connection type is going to offer the best sound quality?
> 
> I'd assume optical, although USB is pretty much the standard nowadays.  I don't know if it's the standard because it's so universal or if it offers the best sound quality.   I know PC to USB can sometimes have interference, which can be cleaned up with something like the Wyrd, but would it be better to just skip the Wyrd and go optical?




Optical can be quite susceptible to jitter. I'd suggest coaxial if you can, then USB, then optical.


----------



## jfoxvol

jfoxvol said:


> Optical can be quite susceptible to jitter. I'd suggest coaxial if you can, then USB, then optical.




Quick follow up. Usb has come quite a long ways in the last two years. Depending on your implementation and source, a USB with wyrd could actually be best but that is an extra 100 bucks. All else being equal, I'd suggest my previous.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





madwolfa said:


> If you ever buy them, do yourself a favor and order some custom Sensaphonics sleeves.


----------



## RCBinTN

I had no issues with USB drop-outs running my original DAC - the Schiit UberBiFrost.  Then, I upgraded to the Gungnir and immediately had USB drop-out issues.  Returned two AQ cables that turned out to not be the problem.  At the advice of Nick at Schiit, I then purchased the Wyrd and that took care of the drop outs.  However, got tired of having to use the Wyrd and switched to optical feed.  Luckily, both my MacBook pro and AK120ii support optical feed into the Gungnir.  Now on to the Gumby with optical feed, have had no issues.


----------



## The Lamonster

jfoxvol said:


> Quick follow up. Usb has come quite a long ways in the last two years. Depending on your implementation and source, a USB with wyrd could actually be best but that is an extra 100 bucks. All else being equal, I'd suggest my previous.



Okay thanks. So using the Wyrd means another USB cable, type A to A that connects the Wyrd to the PC. Schiit does not offer an A to A PYST cable, but does cable quality really even matter at that part of the chain?


----------



## Mediahound

the lamonster said:


> Okay thanks. So using the Wyrd means another USB cable, type A to A that connects the Wyrd to the PC. Schiit does not offer an A to A PYST cable, but does cable quality really even matter at that part of the chain?




You actually need 2 USB type A to B cables. The PYST USB cables Schiit sells work well.


----------



## The Lamonster

mediahound said:


> You actually need 2 USB type A to B cables. The PYST USB cables Schiit sells work well.



Ah okay that's right. Thanks!


----------



## imadeadkat

I had the distinct honor to meet a gentleman from this company, I truly love the what they're doing !!!


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone use the Bifrost directly with a av reciever? How is it? 
I'm thinking of latter on (or would like to plan to) 
Getting a marantz 2.0 channel anplifier (since the bifrost supports 2.0 or 2.1 channels?) and have the (Bifrost+Marantz amplifier+ 2 klipsch or warfidale floor tower speakers) would that be a good setup?


----------



## artur9

bretemm said:


> Does anyone use the Bifrost directly with a av reciever? How is it?
> I'm thinking of latter on (or would like to plan to)
> Getting a marantz 2.0 channel anplifier (since the bifrost supports 2.0 or 2.1 channels?) and have the (Bifrost+Marantz amplifier+ 2 klipsch or warfidale floor tower speakers) would that be a good setup?




I do. It sounds great!


----------



## bretemm

Nice, what recover and speakers are you using it with? 





artur9 said:


> I do. It sounds great!


----------



## artur9

bretemm said:


> Nice, what recover and speakers are you using it with?


 

 I use an old Krell KAV-300IL integrated amp and Vienna Acoustics Haydns.


----------



## The Lamonster

After a LOT of research, I just placed an order for a Wyrd, Modi 2, Sys, Vali, 2 PYST RCAs and 2 PYST USBs.  Planning on using that Schiit with my Fidelio X2s and M-Audio AV40 desktop speakers.
  
 Yes, I'm poor now, and SUPER excited


----------



## jfoxvol

the lamonster said:


> After a LOT of research, I just placed an order for a Wyrd, Modi 2, Sys, Vali, 2 PYST RCAs and 2 PYST USBs.  Planning on using that Schiit with my Fidelio X2s and M-Audio AV40 desktop speakers.
> 
> Yes, I'm poor now, and SUPER excited


 

 Congrats.  Good stuff.


----------



## MWSVette

the lamonster said:


> After a LOT of research, I just placed an order for a Wyrd, Modi 2, Sys, Vali, 2 PYST RCAs and 2 PYST USBs.  Planning on using that Schiit with my Fidelio X2s and M-Audio AV40 desktop speakers.
> 
> Yes, I'm poor now, and SUPER excited


 

 Hope you enjoy your new Schiit stack...


----------



## Matro5

artur9 said:


> I use an old Krell KAV-300IL integrated amp and Vienna Acoustics Haydns.


 
 nice system!
  
 im thinking of building something similar around my Lyr 2.


----------



## artur9

matro5 said:


> nice system!
> 
> im thinking of building something similar around my Lyr 2.


 
 Thanks!  The Haydn has been quite a treat since I got them.  In combination with the Krell it can be reasonably revealing/transparent, at least to my poor old ears.


----------



## peepr

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm using Schiit gear so here goes.
  
 Every time my Air Conditioning is about to turn on I can hear an audible crackle/static/wooshing type sound in my headphones. I live in an apt with central air. It's like I am hearing the initial power surge associated with the AC turning on. Basically I know the AC is about to turn on before I hear the air start blowing.
  
 When the AC turns off I can also hear an audible noise. There doesn't appear to be any constant noise in between startup/shutdown.
  
 Setup: PC -> Modi -> Magni -> D2000. The PC PSU is connected via a power strip. Magni is plugged into a Belkin power outlet. 
  
 Question: what exactly am I hearing and what is carrying this signal? Is it being carried straight from the outlet through the magni or is it from the beginning of the chain at my PC?
  
 If it's the Magni, is it simply the quality of the amp in it's ability to filter?
  
 How can I address this?


----------



## The Lamonster

peepr said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm using Schiit gear so here goes.
> 
> Every time my Air Conditioning is about to turn on I can hear an audible crackle/static/wooshing type sound in my headphones. I live in an apt with central air. It's like I am hearing the initial power surge associated with the AC turning on. Basically I know the AC is about to turn on before I hear the air start blowing.
> 
> ...



I bet the Schiit Wyrd would resolve your issue. Look it up.


----------



## peepr

the lamonster said:


> I bet the Schiit Wyrd would resolve your issue. Look it up.


 
  
 I was just looking at the wyrd and wonder if that may solve my issue. Depends if the power surge is being carried through my PC or through my outlet direct into the Magni.
  
 I may try listening to a CD through my blu ray player and seeing if the noise still happens when i go blu ray -> rca cables to Magni. This should tell me its my PC carrying the signal.


----------



## ThurstonX

peepr said:


> I was just looking at the wyrd and wonder if that may solve my issue. Depends if the power surge is being carried through my PC or through my outlet direct into the Magni.
> 
> I may try listening to a CD through my blu ray player and seeing if the noise still happens when i go blu ray -> rca cables to Magni. This should tell me its my PC carrying the signal.


 
  
 Fully agree that you should try to isolate the problem before throwing good money at new gear.
  
 Good luck with your testing.


----------



## johnjen

peepr said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to post this but I'm using Schiit gear so here goes.
> 
> Every time my Air Conditioning is about to turn on I can hear an audible crackle/static/wooshing type sound in my headphones. I live in an apt with central air. It's like I am hearing the initial power surge associated with the AC turning on. Basically I know the AC is about to turn on before I hear the air start blowing.
> 
> ...


Your buildings central A/C is the source of the noise.
This implies that ac power distribution has induced noise either thru the neutral, the hot, or the ground, or some combination therein.

This can be, at least partially tested for by 'lifting' (disconnecting) the ground into the dac, the amp or both to see if that is the predominant path for the noise to enter the system.

Isolating the netral and hot are a bit more difficult in that a UPS would be needed to isolate them from the ac mains.
And yes the usb signal path could be a source and the wyrd would/could isolate the source of noise if that were the path into your system.

But using a 'cheater plug' (which lifts the ground) would be the easiest and least complicated 1st approach.

JJ


----------



## peepr

Quote: 





johnjen said:


> Your buildings central A/C is the source of the noise.
> This implies that ac power distribution has induced noise either thru the neutral, the hot, or the ground, or some combination therein.
> 
> This can be, at least partially tested for by 'lifting' (disconnecting) the ground into the dac, the amp or both to see if that is the predominant path for the noise to enter the system.
> ...


 
 Thanks JJ I forgot I actually have a stinger ground loop isolater from a separate issue with my HT setup. I added it to my loop and tested with my AC, no noise!! Thanks m8.


----------



## johnjen

If it were me, I'd take this one step further.

I'd float either the dac or the amp from ground and then use your regular IC's and see if there is any signal degridation by using your ground loop isolator.
Just because I could…

Of course the noise might also return, in which case I'd try lifting them both, but I'd also try tying their grounds together, just to see if there was a particular combination that was optimal.

JJ


----------



## bretemm

Will Schiit ever make a amp/dac that can handle low ohms IEMs? 
I like the se846 that's at 8ohms, 
So those wouldn't be good to use with the Valhalla2 right?


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Will Schiit ever make a amp/dac that can handle low ohms IEMs?
> I like the se846 that's at 8ohms,
> So those wouldn't be good to use with the Valhalla2 right?




Turn the amp on low gain. You will be fine.


----------



## madwolfa

bretemm said:


> Will Schiit ever make a amp/dac that can handle low ohms IEMs?
> I like the se846 that's at 8ohms,
> So those wouldn't be good to use with the Valhalla2 right?


 
  
 Most if not all Schiit amps can handle low ohm IEMs without any issues. I've used SE846 with my Asgard 2 on low gain setting.


----------



## Lupino

bretemm said:


> Will Schiit ever make a amp/dac that can handle low ohms IEMs?
> I like the se846 that's at 8ohms,
> So those wouldn't be good to use with the Valhalla2 right?


 

 According to Nick at Schitt the Valhalla can be fairly noisy with low ohm IEM's.


----------



## KLJTech

madwolfa said:


> Most if not all Schiit amps can handle low ohm IEMs without any issues. I've used SE846 with my Asgard 2 on low gain setting.


 
  
 Agreed, the Asgard 2 has no issue with low impedance IEM's.


----------



## bretemm

Great, but tho, I like the Valhalla2 more kinda then my magi and modi, would the Asgard be good to get to use sensitive IEMs with? 





madwolfa said:


> Most if not all Schiit amps can handle low ohm IEMs without any issues. I've used SE846 with my Asgard 2 on low gain setting.


----------



## RCBinTN

madwolfa said:


> Most if not all Schiit amps can handle low ohm IEMs without any issues. I've used SE846 with my Asgard 2 on low gain setting.


 
  
 I've used my SE535 with the BiFrost/Asgard2 on low gain setting.  The SQ was great!


----------



## bretemm

So, if I got the Asgard2, could I still get "tube sound" if I used the valhalla2 as a pass through to the asgard2? 
Thanks


----------



## KLJTech

With the Asgard 2 I've used every Klipsch I have on hand, the S2's, X5, X7 and X10 and all of them play great with the A2 with zero background noise. That's not always an easy trick with IEM's as I have other headphone amps on hand that cost a lot more that you always have a bit of hiss/noise floor in the background. The IEM's I use most often are the Westone W40's and they sound incredible with the Asgard 2...I use that pairing in my office almost every day.


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> So, if I got the Asgard2, could I still get "tube sound" if I used the valhalla2 as a pass through to the asgard2?
> Thanks


 
  
 No, both are amps, you wouldn't want to try and double amp your IEM or headphone. iFi makes a tube buffer stage/preamplifier depending on how the switches are set on the bottom of the case if all you want to do is add the warmth of tubes. I believe it's called the iFi iTube Tube Buffer.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I'm yhinking about eather getting the x7i or x11i but I'm not sure, Im really liking my valhalla2, so any of those would work with the valhalla2? My klipsch s3 are 15ohms 





kljtech said:


> No, both are amps, you wouldn't want to try and double amp your IEM or headphone. iFi makes a tube buffer stage/preamplifier depending on how the switches are set on the bottom of the case if all you want to do is add the warmth of tubes. I believe it's called the iFi iTube Tube Buffer.


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> So, if I got the Asgard2, could I still get "tube sound" if I used the valhalla2 as a pass through to the asgard2?
> Thanks


 
  


kljtech said:


> No, both are amps, you wouldn't want to try and double amp your IEM or headphone. iFi makes a tube buffer stage/preamplifier depending on how the switches are set on the bottom of the case if all you want to do is add the warmth of tubes. I believe it's called the iFi iTube Tube Buffer.


 
  
 Should preamp outs only be sent to non-integrated speaker amps (i.e., amps without their own volume control)?  I use my Lyr's preamp outs into an Emotiva Fusion Flex and it seems to work pretty well.  Best as I can figure, it's just a matter of gain staging to get the balance I want/like.  I know I'm not alone in using the Lyr out into an integrated speaker amp.


----------



## KLJTech

thurstonx said:


> Should preamp outs only be sent to non-integrated speaker amps (i.e., amps without their own volume control)?  I use my Lyr's preamp outs into an Emotiva Fusion Flex and it seems to work pretty well.  Best as I can figure, it's just a matter of gain staging to get the balance I want/like.  I know I'm not alone in using the Lyr out into an integrated speaker amp.


 
  
 You can use any of Schiit Audio's Headphone amps that have preamp output as a preamp to a speaker amp. I'm sure that you can use a Valhalla 2 as a preamp feeding a Asgard 2, but with IEM's I would be concerned about the noise floor. He asked about the Asgard 2 for driving IEM's and that would work great, but adding the Valhalla 2 would I imagine just add noise.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I'm limited to IEMs because of something medical with magnets, should I get a high ohm iem or a low ohm? I found the klipsch x7i or x11i that have 50ohms 





kljtech said:


> You can use any of Schiit Audio's Headphone amps that have preamp output as a preamp to a speaker amp. I'm sure that you can use a Valhalla 2 as a preamp feeding a Asgard 2, but with IEM's I would be concerned about the noise floor. He asked about the Asgard 2 for driving IEM's and that would work great, but adding the Valhalla 2 would I imagine just add noise.


----------



## mikebarber1

bretemm said:


> Will Schiit ever make a amp/dac that can handle low ohms IEMs?
> I like the se846 that's at 8ohms,
> So those wouldn't be good to use with the Valhalla2 right?


 
  
 The SE846's work well with my Asgard 2 and Valhalla 2 in low gain mode.


----------



## JamesBr

lupino said:


> According to Nick at Schitt the Valhalla can be fairly noisy with low ohm IEM's.


 
 Yup, according to a lot of people...


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but is there a IEM what will work just as good as a "headphone"? Or what specs should I look for in a IEM that would be good to use for the valhalla2? 
My klipsch iem is 15ohm 

Thanks 





jamesbr said:


> Yup, according to a lot of people...


----------



## The Lamonster

This is my first external amp and dac.  Lots of choices out there, but I think I chose well.


----------



## KLJTech

the lamonster said:


> This is my first external amp and dac.  Lots of choices out there, but I think I chose well.


 
  
  
 Very sweet setup!


----------



## Astral Abyss

the lamonster said:


> This is my first external amp and dac.  Lots of choices out there, but I think I chose well.




Treasure goblin!


----------



## MWSVette

the lamonster said:


> This is my first external amp and dac.  Lots of choices out there, but I think I chose well.


 
  
 Very nice stack of Schiit...  Congratulations


----------



## jfoxvol

the lamonster said:


> This is my first external amp and dac.  Lots of choices out there, but I think I chose well.


 
 Congrats.  You're gonna love that Vali.  It is so so nice.  Wicked setup.


----------



## bretemm

Would this work? Or be more dedicated to get great quality? 
If I got a Bifrost and mani (the phono one) 
And then got a marantz amplifier (with phono input) using it with 2 tower speakers, 
Would the Schiit Mani(phono) be good to use? Insted of directly connecting the rca of the bifrost to a marantz amplifier but through the mani? 

Thanks


----------



## MWSVette

bretemm said:


> Would this work? Or be more dedicated to get great quality?
> If I got a Bifrost and mani (the phono one)
> And then got a marantz amplifier (with phono input) using it with 2 tower speakers,
> Would the Schiit Mani(phono) be good to use? Insted of directly connecting the rca of the bifrost to a marantz amplifier but through the mani?
> ...


 

 No, the Mani is a preamp used to took hook up a turntable to play "phono"graphic long play records (LP's) to an amp.  Turntables have a far less powerful line signal out than standard line outs.  The mani boosts this phono signal to normal line levels for the input to the amp.  Your Marantz already has a phono preamp built in.  From the Bifrost you would hook to the aux input on your Marantz via rca.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 





mwsvette said:


> No, the Mani is a preamp used to took hook up a turntable to play "phono"graphic long play records (LP's) to an amp.  Turntables have a far less powerful line signal out than standard line outs.  The mani boosts this phono signal to normal line levels for the input to the amp.  Your Marantz already has a phono preamp built in.  From the Bifrost you would hook to the aux input on your Marantz via rca.


----------



## bretemm

So using the bifrost with a smaller channel receiver or just a amplifier, there the quality should be the same? 





mwsvette said:


> No, the Mani is a preamp used to took hook up a turntable to play "phono"graphic long play records (LP's) to an amp.  Turntables have a far less powerful line signal out than standard line outs.  The mani boosts this phono signal to normal line levels for the input to the amp.  Your Marantz already has a phono preamp built in.  From the Bifrost you would hook to the aux input on your Marantz via rca.


----------



## MWSVette

bretemm said:


> So using the bifrost with a smaller channel receiver or just a amplifier, there the quality should be the same?


 

 Yes, exactly. At that point the quality of the amp and speakers and of course personal preference would have the most impact on perceived SQ.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so I guess I'll plan on getting a marantz amplifier that will be dedicated to only using with the bifrost is what I'll do next, or possibly also use the amp with my av marantz as well, since there's multiplie Inputs on it 





mwsvette said:


> Yes, exactly. At that point the quality of the amp and speakers and of course personal preference would have the most impact on perceived SQ.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
  
 I just wanted to give you a heads up that I won't be at RMAF CanJam this year. I really would have liked to go, but somehow I managed to pick up a case of pneumonia. So, even if I am fully recovered and feeling fine by RMAF, I am told that running around and finding possible new respiratory infections to meet is not a great idea. 
  
 On the plus side:
  
 1. You get Mike at the show, who will have an announcement on the digital side of things.
 2. You may get an extra chapter or two out of me on Schiit Happened, since I don't have much to do while I'm recovering and I am already bored out of my mind.
 3. And of course you get Tony, Denise, and possibly more of the crew. 
  
 Beyond that, with any luck, I will have one more announcement before the end of the year (hopefully not another illness...you know what I mean!)
  
 All the best,
 Jason


----------



## bretemm

So there should be new Schiit in October? 
I'm planning on getting a Bifrost, I hope I have enough for the new Schiit as well


----------



## munce31

Just wanted to quickly say that my aural odyssey with the Lyr 2 and Bifrost Uber has been absolutely fantastic!
  
 Thanks Schiit Audio!
  
 Vince


----------



## bretemm

With the Bifrost and the Bifrost uber analog, 
What's the main diffrence? 
has anyone upgraded? 

Im pretty sure the Bifrost will be the next Schiit I'll get that I'll eaither use directly with my marantz stereo or I'll use it with my Valhalla2


----------



## almarti

Hi All, since this year owner of Modi 2 and Asgard 2 paired with Senn HD600. I love them.
 Thinking to get Audeze EL8 Open for home, will Asgard 2 will pair well with them? Do I need to upgrade to Schiit tube amps?
  
 Need help as well on  travel solution; now iPod Touch 5G, Audioquest Dragonfly v1.2 and Etymotic ER-4PT; need different cables and an external power bank to get them working and not very well ergonomics to carry all of them on. Any solution for a new DAC/Amp to pair with iPod and ER4?
  
 Thanks in advance. Regards, Alberto.


----------



## chillaxing

New owner of a lyr 2 checking in. Now time to decide on dac

For the poster above. The only portable at reasonable price that will work with ios without extra cables is the oppo ha-1


----------



## munce31

bretemm said:


> With the Bifrost and the Bifrost uber analog,
> What's the main diffrence?
> has anyone upgraded?
> 
> Im pretty sure the Bifrost will be the next Schiit I'll get that I'll eaither use directly with my marantz stereo or I'll use it with my Valhalla2


 
 I did not have a bifrost dac before, so I cannot make a comparison, but I've just gotten a Bifrost Uber with Gen 2 usb input.
  
 Coming from an a jdslabs Odac to Bifrost Uber was a massive step - well at least to my ears - the sound stage is wider and it seems that there is more detail in the lower and mid frequencies.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I had the magi and modi before I got the valhalla2 and I perfer usingn the valhalla2 with the modi. Mainly I think I might use the Bifrost with my marantz but then I might just use it with the Valhalla2 of there isn't a big diffrence. 





munce31 said:


> I did not have a bifrost dac before, so I cannot make a comparison, but I've just gotten a Bifrost Uber with Gen 2 usb input.
> 
> Coming from an a jdslabs Odac to Bifrost Uber was a massive step - well at least to my ears - the sound stage is wider and it seems that there is more detail in the lower and mid frequencies.


----------



## The Lamonster

Anyone have both a Vali and a Magni 2?  Curious if they're different enough to warrant owning both.


----------



## rmullins08

I do, but they serve different purposes for me.  I use the Vali with my turntable, Magni with my desktop


----------



## Billheiser

the lamonster said:


> Anyone have both a Vali and a Magni 2?  Curious if they're different enough to warrant owning both.


 I had the Vali and the original Magni. I kept the Vali, sold the Magni. Would make the same choice every time.


----------



## Evil_Spork

I just came into a pair of ATH-W1000z's and was looking at a Magni 2 Uber or Vali paired with a Modi 2 Uber. 
  
 I've heard these headphones like tubes so the Vali seemed like a solid choice, but I have no experience with tubes or hybrid tube amps at all.
 The Modi 2 Uber is purely a budget choice; it offers a variety of inputs while being affordable. The Bifrost is the next comparable DAC and it's just out of the budget.
  
 Would a Vali + Modi 2 Uber be a good choice?


----------



## Billheiser

evil_spork said:


> Would a Vali + Modi 2 Uber be a good choice?



Very.


----------



## jfoxvol

evil_spork said:


> I just came into a pair of ATH-W1000z's and was looking at a Magni 2 Uber or Vali paired with a Modi 2 Uber.
> 
> I've heard these headphones like tubes so the Vali seemed like a solid choice, but I have no experience with tubes or hybrid tube amps at all.
> The Modi 2 Uber is purely a budget choice; it offers a variety of inputs while being affordable. The Bifrost is the next comparable DAC and it's just out of the budget.
> ...


 
 The Vali is very very good.  It's too good for how little it costs.  It's a bit noisy and it's microphonic but it is otherwise sublime.  It gets as much playing time as my Ragnarok.  Those cans are pretty efficient but the impedance is 40something ohms.  You shouldn't have as much of a problem with the noise and ringing.  I never really bothered me.


----------



## Evil_Spork

I was stressing about which amp I wanted but you two have solidly convinced me the Vali is the right choice. The Modi 2 Uber is clearly an awesome pairing as well. Now we'll see how long I can wait before spending money I shouldn't be spending!


----------



## jfoxvol

evil_spork said:


> I was stressing about which amp I wanted but you two have solidly convinced me the Vali is the right choice. The Modi 2 Uber is clearly an awesome pairing as well. Now we see how long I can wait before spending money I shouldn't be spending!


 
 Yeah.  I'm hoping for a Vali 2 down the road with some tweaks.  Maybe in a bigger chassis.  Seriously though, I've done a lot of back and forth with far more expensive amps and this is up there.  Love to hear your impressions.  I've never heard those ATHs.  They look nice.


----------



## cuiter23

Looking to sell my Modi, any interest?


----------



## Evil_Spork

I came from


jfoxvol said:


> Yeah.  I'm hoping for a Vali 2 down the road with some tweaks.  Maybe in a bigger chassis.  Seriously though, I've done a lot of back and forth with far more expensive amps and this is up there.  Love to hear your impressions.  I've never heard those ATHs.  They look nice.


 
 I came from a pair of ATH-A700 that I've had and loved for a decade. I feel in love with the sound profile of that line from a friends A900. I haven't had a really quality DAC/Amp but comparing the same source, my computer's surprisingly-not-awful-but-woefully-underpowered onboard audio the one standout so far: Clarity. The w1000z are in a completely different league compared to the A700 in terms of clarity. I heard concerns about the X model having an issue with lacking bass but as far as I'm concerned that is completely fixed with the Z. The bass is plentiful and as with the A700 very realistic and accurate. I haven't had a chance to listen to them side by side but the W1000 does have a different sound profile, but not so different that it didn't feel familiar to me.
  
 I'm not a professional reviewer and I haven't heard many higher end headphones but these really stand out compared to the A700, which I still absolutely love and think are incredible cans. As always YMMV, it's all subjective, etc, but these things sound insane and absolutely beautiful in person.
  
 I hope that's at least a tiny bit helpful! I'll definitely reply again when I get some good Schiit to power it. 
  
 Edit: I have no willpower and bought a Vali + Modi 2 Uber and a set of their fancy $20 RCA cables.


----------



## bretemm

With the valhalla2, 
What would be the minimum required specs for a IEM to best work with it? 
Like the Ohms and sensitivity? 
Would 50omms and 100 or 110bd sensitivity be good?


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> With the valhalla2,
> What would be the minimum required specs for a IEM to best work with it?
> Like the Ohms and sensitivity?
> Would 50omms and 100 or 110bd sensitivity be good?


 
  
 It's really hard to say.  There are two main variables: impedance and sensitivity.  This amp cannot generate as much current as a solid state amp.  The higher the impedance the better.  As impedance falls and sensitivity increases, you'll get higher noise and less ability to drive.  So, higher impedance and lower sensitivity will get you better results with this amp.  This amp can drive more current than most OTL amps.  It's low gain mode will still be your best choice with IEMs.  
  
 50 or 100 ohms should both be fine.  Generally 6x the output impedance of the amp or more is your best bet.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, klipsch has the x7i that is 50ohms and 100 or 110bd sensitivity 





jfoxvol said:


> It's really hard to say.  There are two main variables: impedance and sensitivity.  This amp cannot generate as much current as a solid state amp.  The higher the impedance the better.  As impedance falls and sensitivity increases, you'll get higher noise and less ability to drive.  So, higher impedance and lower sensitivity will get you better results with this amp.  This amp can drive more current than most OTL amps.  It's low gain mode will still be your best choice with IEMs.
> 
> 50 or 100 ohms should both be fine.  Generally 6x the output impedance of the amp or more is your best bet.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Thank you, klipsch has the x7i that is 50ohms and 100 or 110bd sensitivity


 
  
 I used a Denon AH-D7000 with 25 Ohms and 108dB sensitivity with this amp in low gain and it was fine.  So, you'll be good.


----------



## bretemm

Great, right now I'm using the klipsch s3 or (I think) and there at 15ohm and 100db sensitivity, how much of a quality increase would I get if I get the x7i? 
Thanks 





jfoxvol said:


> I used a Denon AH-D7000 with 25 Ohms and 108dB sensitivity with this amp in low gain and it was fine.  So, you'll be good.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Great, right now I'm using the klipsch s3 or (I think) and there at 15ohm and 100db sensitivity, how much of a quality increase would I get if I get the x7i?
> Thanks


 
 Well, all things being equal, you should expect an increase in dynamics and probably an increase in low end response.  I don't know and can't speak to the differences in the sound quality in the designs of those two.  Though the sensitivity goes way up on the x7i, the impedance makes a big jump as well.  I'd expect the noise level to be probably similar, perhaps a little better.


----------



## jeremy205100

bretemm said:


> Great, right now I'm using the klipsch s3 or (I think) and there at 15ohm and 100db sensitivity, how much of a quality increase would I get if I get the x7i?
> Thanks


 

 You keep posting about sensitive and ohms. These are things to consider when pairing with an amplifier, but they have very little, if anything, to do with sound quality. Also, I would've recommended the Asgard 2 for use with IEMs, that way you wouldn't have to worry about noise at all. Tube amps are really for high Ohm headphones like the 600 Ohm Beyerdynamics or the 300 Ohm Sennheisers. From reading Schiit's FAQ, it seems like the Valhalla 2 has minimal IEM support as a bonus feature, not an intended use case. 
  
 Most IEMs under the $200 price range are also usually very easy to drive. An amplifier is likely unnecessary, especially one as nice as Valhalla 2.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, well I really want to use my valhalla2 and it sounds great, but, with limited to IEMs, I'm wanting a better one other then my $35 klipsch that are 15ohms, what iem by klipsch or Shure? Would you recomened? 
Thanks 





jeremy205100 said:


> You keep posting about sensitive and ohms. These are things to consider when pairing with an amplifier, but they have very little, if anything, to do with sound quality. Also, I would've recommended the Asgard 2 for use with IEMs, that way you wouldn't have to worry about noise at all. Tube amps are really for high Ohm headphones like the 600 Ohm Beyerdynamics or the 300 Ohm Sennheisers. From reading Schiit's FAQ, it seems like the Valhalla 2 has minimal IEM support as a bonus feature, not an intended use case.
> 
> Most IEMs under the $200 price range are also usually very easy to drive. An amplifier is likely unnecessary, especially one as nice as Valhalla 2.


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> Thank you, well I really want to use my valhalla2 and it sounds great, but, with limited to IEMs, I'm wanting a better one other then my $35 klipsch that are 15ohms, what iem by klipsch or Shure? Would you recomened?
> Thanks


 
  
 I have the Klipsch S2, S3, X5, X7 and X10...you'll find that any of the Klipsch armature driver IEM's will be a BIG step up from the moving coil micro speaker in the S3. You'll have better bass, mids and treble with the armature driver IEM's and if you can do without the 3-button remote you can save a lot at Amazon on the X5 ($94.88), X7 ($80.38) or the X10 ($140.41)
  
The X10 is a nice all-around IEM (more bass/sounds bigger than the others) for it's tiny size and low cost. The X5 and X7 share the same armature driver, but the X7 uses a ceramic housing rather than aluminum that is used by the X5. I'm not so sure that the X5 isn't the most accurate of the 3, but you give up "some" bass for a more linear sound than the X10. The X5 will stick out of your ear farther than any of the other models...if that matters to you. 
  
 It's true that the Asgard 2 would be the better amp for IEM listening, but if you're sold on the Valhalla 2 (great amp for full-size headphones and a sweet preamp) you can't go too wrong with any of the Klipsch armature IEM's as long as you don't pay the full retail price. The reason I'm trying to steer you towards the non-remote versions is they're often on sale at Amazon and if you're not pleased returns are easy.
  
 If you're willing/able to spend more then I would consider one of the multi-driver IEM's from Shure or Westone...I use the Westone W40's every day and they're stellar. I may even pick up the W60's at some point this year, the Westone's are like having your listening room with you on the go. 
  
 Good luck!


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! That helped allot! 





kljtech said:


> I have the Klipsch S2, S3, X5, X7 and X10...you'll find that any of the Klipsch armature driver IEM's will be a BIG step up from the m[COLOR=222222]oving coil micro speaker in the S3. You'll have better bass, mids and treble with the armature driver IEM's and if you can do without the [/COLOR][COLOR=111111]3-button remote you can save a lot at Amazon on the X5 ($94.88), X7 ($80.38) or the X10 ($140.41)[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=111111]The X10 is a nice all-around IEM (more bass/sounds bigger than the others) for it's tiny size and low cost. The X5 and X7 share the same armature driver, but the X7 uses a ceramic housing rather than [/COLOR]aluminum that is used by the X5. I'm not so sure that the X5 isn't the most accurate of the 3, but you give up "some" bass for a more linear sound than the X10. The X5 will stick out of your ear farther than any of the other models...if that matters to you.
> 
> ...


----------



## bretemm

I'm thinking of getting the Bifrost next with the uber analog. I'm using my modi with my valhalla2 right now. 
Between the asgard and v2 with sound, 
Which is better? Would the asgaurd have a detailed open sound like v2?
The v2 has a low gain on it a well. 
Thanks! 





kljtech said:


> I have the Klipsch S2, S3, X5, X7 and X10...you'll find that any of the Klipsch armature driver IEM's will be a BIG step up from the m[COLOR=222222]oving coil micro speaker in the S3. You'll have better bass, mids and treble with the armature driver IEM's and if you can do without the [/COLOR][COLOR=111111]3-button remote you can save a lot at Amazon on the X5 ($94.88), X7 ($80.38) or the X10 ($140.41)[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=111111]The X10 is a nice all-around IEM (more bass/sounds bigger than the others) for it's tiny size and low cost. The X5 and X7 share the same armature driver, but the X7 uses a ceramic housing rather than [/COLOR]aluminum that is used by the X5. I'm not so sure that the X5 isn't the most accurate of the 3, but you give up "some" bass for a more linear sound than the X10. The X5 will stick out of your ear farther than any of the other models...if that matters to you.
> 
> ...


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> I'm thinking of getting the Bifrost next with the uber analog. I'm using my modi with my valhalla2 right now.
> Between the asgard and v2 with sound,
> Which is better? Would the asgaurd have a detailed open sound like v2?
> The v2 has a low gain on it a well.
> Thanks!


 
 First off, hold off just a little bit longer on getting the bifrost.  There's supposed to be an announcement in early October on the digital side at RMAF.  Possibility of a multibit bifrost.  I have a bifrost uber with USB and it is very good.  There could be a significant upgrade to it soon.  So, I'd wait just a little bit longer.
  
 I've not heard the asgard2 so I can't speak to that.  I own an asgard 1 and it is great.  The next gen is supposed to be far better.  That's all I know since I've not had an opportunity to listen.  I'd suggest reading reviews and schiit.com details and specs.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, what type of diffrence would the new one have? Would the updated Bifrost show quality through IEMs or if I used it with my stereo? 
I wish I wasn't limited to IEMs 





jfoxvol said:


> First off, hold off just a little bit longer on getting the bifrost.  There's supposed to be an announcement in early October on the digital side at RMAF.  Possibility of a multibit bifrost.  I have a bifrost uber with USB and it is very good.  There could be a significant upgrade to it soon.  So, I'd wait just a little bit longer.
> 
> I've not heard the asgard2 so I can't speak to that.  I own an asgard 1 and it is great.  The next gen is supposed to be far better.  That's all I know since I've not had an opportunity to listen.  I'd suggest reading reviews and schiit.com details and specs.


----------



## reddog

bretemm said:


> Thank you, what type of diffrence would the new one have? Would the updated Bifrost show quality through IEMs or if I used it with my stereo?
> I wish I wasn't limited to IEMs



I would wait for the bifrost update, it should be very nice. The GMB is a good dac and if the Audio Wizards at Schiit Audio, can condense the goodness of the GMB, into the Bifrost, it should be wonderful. I own the Asgard 2 and its a very nice amp. Tight bass, smooth mids and non fatiguing highs. The soundstage is nice and detailed.


----------



## bretemm

Great, but with using IEMs, would I get the same sound upgrade as someone would hear with headphones? I might get the asgard2 (I like buying more and more Schiit!) but, would the asgard2 be a good upgrade from my magi and modi? 





reddog said:


> I would wait for the bifrost update, it should be very nice. The GMB is a good dac and if the Audio Wizards at Schiit Audio, can condense the goodness of the GMB, into the Bifrost, it should be wonderful. I own the Asgard 2 and its a very nice amp. Tight bass, smooth mids and non fatiguing highs. The soundstage is nice and detailed.


----------



## StanD

bretemm said:


> Great, but with using IEMs, would I get the same sound upgrade as someone would hear with headphones? I might get the asgard2 (I like buying more and more Schiit!) but, would the asgard2 be a good upgrade from my magi and modi?


 
 The question is will you really hear a difference if a proper comparison is made? IMO, probably not. Yes, I own an A2 and a Magni.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Great, but with using IEMs, would I get the same sound upgrade as someone would hear with headphones? I might get the asgard2 (I like buying more and more Schiit!) but, would the asgard2 be a good upgrade from my magi and modi?


 

 You are asking same/similar questions over and over.  Take some time to consolidate the large amount of info people have been giving you.  Then make a decision.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I try and search but I kinda get messed up searching on my phone. 





billheiser said:


> You are asking same/similar questions over and over.  Take some time to consolidate the large amount of info people have been giving you.  Then make a decision.


----------



## bretemm

It looks like I'll get the Westone w40 for my Valhalla2


----------



## reddog

Pictures of my Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir


----------



## Billheiser

reddog said:


> Pictures of my Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir


 
 Why are pirates so happy with their Schiit?
 I don't know, they just arrrrr


----------



## reddog

billheiser said:


> Why are pirates so happy with their Schiit?
> I don't know, they just arrrrr



Arg is the audio swag booty performs superbly for a fair price, then pirated will love it because they can spend their gold on ill gotten wenches and quality spirits.. It trully be a good tome for audophile pirates lol


----------



## MWSVette

reddog said:


> Pictures of my Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir


 
  
 +1 Sweet rig Andrew...


----------



## Astral Abyss

The lack of symmetry in that setup bothers me, but I'm really OCD.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> It looks like I'll get the Westone w40 for my Valhalla2



Bam! A decision, and a good one. Way to go!


----------



## bretemm

But there not avalible at bestbuy, I don't like ordering online and having to wait! 





billheiser said:


> Bam! A decision, and a good one. Way to go!


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> But there not avalible at bestbuy, I don't like ordering online and having to wait!


 That's so tragic! Amazon Prime eligible, free shipping, you'll have them in 48 hours. Be strong until then.


----------



## bretemm

Thanks! Yea I'm not actually complanning 





billheiser said:


> That's so tragic! Amazon Prime eligible, free shipping, you'll have them in 48 hours. Be strong until then.


----------



## bretemm

Between the w40 and klipsch X11i, which is better? The klipsch are cheeper and still a upgrad from my G3 klipsch


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Between the w40 and klipsch X11i, which is better? The klipsch are cheeper and still a upgrad from my G3 klipsch


 

 Check the W40 and Klipsch X11i threads for that info.  Too off topic for a 'Schiit Owners Unite' thread.    http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I'm just wondering and asking because I don't know, (I'm limited to IEMs$ so i would like to ask that 





billheiser said:


> Check the W40 and Klipsch X11i threads for that info.  Too off topic for a 'Schiit Owners Unite' thread.    http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Ok, I'm just wondering and asking because I don't know, (I'm limited to IEMs$ so i would like to ask that


 

 Understood; but ask on the appropriate threads.  There are thousands of threads here on Head-Fi and therefore each needs to be focused on their own topic.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I just looked and there isn't really one about the klipsch vs shure, so im not sure 





billheiser said:


> Understood; but ask on the appropriate threads.  There are thousands of threads here on Head-Fi and therefore each needs to be focused on their own topic.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Thank you, I just looked and there isn't really one about the klipsch vs shure, so im not sure


 

 This is not the thread for klipsch vs shure.  Look in klipsch and shure threads!


----------



## bretemm

Thanks, but tho with using Schiit and between those two, I wanted to ask here because "I use Schiit" and want to know what quality those have with Schiit, 
Thanks 





billheiser said:


> This is not the thread for klipsch vs shure.  Look in klipsch and shure threads!
> [/quote


----------



## ThurstonX

bretemm said:


> Thanks, but tho with using Schiit and between those two, I wanted to ask here because "I use Schiit" and want to know what quality those have with Schiit,
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the point is, if anyone following this thread were going to answer your very specific question regarding those unlikely combinations, not to mention that you want a comparison between two IEMs on a tube amp not designed to work with them per se, they'd have done so by now.
  
  
Finger hovering over the Unsubscribe link....


----------



## Billheiser

thurstonx said:


> I think the point is, if anyone following this thread were going to answer your very specific question regarding those unlikely combinations, not to mention that you want a comparison between two IEMs on a tube amp not designed to work with them per se, they'd have done so by now.
> 
> 
> Finger hovering over the Unsubscribe link....


 Correct.


----------



## MWSVette

thurstonx said:


> I think the point is, if anyone following this thread were going to answer your very specific question regarding those unlikely combinations, not to mention that you want a comparison between two IEMs on a tube amp not designed to work with them per se, they'd have done so by now.
> 
> 
> Finger hovering over the Unsubscribe link...


 
  
 +1 I agree 100%


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, 
I'm just limited to only IEMs and wanted to ask, and I can't just demo IEMs as well as just pick a pair up because everything is ordered online now 





thurstonx said:


> I think the point is, if anyone following this thread were going to answer your very specific question regarding those unlikely combinations, not to mention that you want a comparison between two IEMs on a tube amp not designed to work with them per se, they'd have done so by now.
> 
> 
> Finger hovering over the Unsubscribe link....


----------



## Aegruin

Hi. I was wondering, can a Modi 2 Uber - Magni 2 drive any speakers?
  
 My budget is like 35-80$ for speakers and I'm considering buying a speaker without an amp and using my Magni 2 as a speaker amp because of that low budget of mine.
 Actually I can take advise about any speaker too. I haven't choose a speaker yet.
  
 Sorry for bad English. I had to hurry, I couldn't edit and fix the post for mistakes.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Thank you,
> I'm just limited to only IEMs and wanted to ask, and I can't just demo IEMs as well as just pick a pair up because everything is ordered online now


 Yes, we know what you want. And we are correctly telling you where to go to find it.


----------



## Billheiser

aegruin said:


> Hi. I was wondering, can a Modi 2 Uber - Magni 2 drive any speakers?
> 
> My budget is like 35-80$ for speakers and I'm considering buying a speaker without an amp and using my Magni 2 as a speaker amp because of that low budget of mine.
> Actually I can take advise about any speaker too. I haven't choose a speaker yet.
> ...



The Magni 2 is very good for driving POWERED speakers (such as Audioengine 2 or 5). It is NOT made for driving passive speakers.


----------



## rovopio

billheiser said:


> The Magni 2 is very good for driving POWERED speakers (such as Audioengine 2 or 5). It is NOT made for driving passive speakers.


 
  
 Not the OP but I have a question about active speakers. I never own a speaker before. I'm actually thinking of getting an Audioengine soon (just because it's the cheapest speaker I can find -not named Logitech- in comparison to other alternatives).
  
 My question is, since it's active speaker, does it not already comes with it's own amplifier inside the speaker itself? It's not?
 I own the 2 Uber, but I didn't think I would need them to power the Audioengine A2+.
  
 Will the Audioengine A2+ won't work if I don't have (any) desktop amps, say the magni 2/Uber?


----------



## RickB

rovopio said:


> Not the OP but I have a question about active speakers. I never own a speaker before. I'm actually thinking of getting an Audioengine soon (just because it's the cheapest speaker I can find -not named Logitech- in comparison to other alternatives).
> 
> My question is, since it's active speaker, does it not already comes with it's own amplifier inside the speaker itself? It's not?
> I own the 2 Uber, but I didn't think I would need them to power the Audioengine A2+.
> ...


 

 The Audioengines come with a built-in amp and will work hooked up directly to a computer. The A2+ also has a built in DAC, so you could hook it up via USB.


----------



## theblueprint

thurstonx said:


> I think the point is, if anyone following this thread were going to answer your very specific question regarding those unlikely combinations, not to mention that you want a comparison between two IEMs on a tube amp not designed to work with them per se, they'd have done so by now.
> 
> 
> Finger hovering over the Unsubscribe link....




My thoughts exactly also. bretemm, you have been incessantly spamming this thread about a topic which we have been patiently answering over and over. Please use the search function instead because it seems that you have gotten on the nerves of many posters in this thread. We have been telling you what you needed to know and you simply wave it off, saying okay one moment, and then asking the same exact question a post later. It is not only disrespectful, but also a waste of time on a thread that was created to talk about other topics.


----------



## rovopio

rickb said:


> The Audioengines come with a built-in amp and will work hooked up directly to a computer. The A2+ also has a built in DAC, so you could hook it up via USB.


 
  
 I read about the built-in DAC on the local site. Didn't say anything about the built-in amp, but I just assumed so.
 So my question becomes, how does plugging in a magni 2 uber -> rca > Audioengine A2+ works?
 Is that what is called "preamp" feature?
  
 What does a 'desktop amp act as a preamp (i.e. magni 2 uber)' do that the Audioengine A2+ itself can't do?


----------



## RickB

rovopio said:


> I read about the built-in DAC on the local site. Didn't say anything about the built-in amp, but I just assumed so.
> So my question becomes, how does plugging in a magni 2 uber -> rca > Audioengine A2+ works?
> Is that what is called "preamp" feature?
> 
> What does a 'desktop amp act as a preamp (i.e. magni 2 uber)' do that the Audioengine A2+ itself can't do?


 

 You would use an RCA cable to connect the M2U to the speakers. The sound would be routed to the speakers when the M2U is turned on with no headphones plugged in. That way you could control the volume with the Magni, as the A2+ has the volume control on the rear on the left speaker. This is what I do with my regular A2's (no DAC), it's connected to an Asgard 2 that I use to control the volume going to the speakers.
  
 Of course, you would be bypassing the DAC in the Audioengines with this setup.


----------



## rovopio

rickb said:


> You would use an RCA cable to connect the M2U to the speakers. The sound would be routed to the speakers when the M2U is turned on with no headphones plugged in. That way you could control the volume with the Magni, as the A2+ has the volume control on the rear on the left speaker. This is what I do with my regular A2's (no DAC), it's connected to an Asgard 2 that I use to control the volume going to the speakers.
> 
> Of course, you would be bypassing the DAC in the Audioengines with this setup.


 
  
 Yeah it's too bad they stopped producing the A2. $50 is a lot, given exchange rates.
  
 Speaking about 'bypassing', does the Magni 2U works only as a speaker volume control in this setup, or does it bypass the A2+ amp section as well?


----------



## bretemm

I have asked to designated threads but no answer because there not active, 
I can't get by powerful magnets and retailers are cheep with where they sell at so I can't get a hands on with amy of the main brands, 
So, 
Just asking 
Thanks 





theblueprint said:


> My thoughts exactly also. bretemm, you have been incessantly spamming this thread about a topic which we have been patiently answering over and over. Please use the search function instead because it seems that you have gotten on the nerves of many posters in this thread. We have been telling you what you needed to know and you simply wave it off, saying okay one moment, and then asking the same exact question a post later. It is not only disrespectful, but also a waste of time on a thread that was created to talk about other topics.


----------



## RickB

rovopio said:


> Yeah it's too bad they stopped producing the A2. $50 is a lot, given exchange rates.
> 
> Speaking about 'bypassing', does the Magni 2U works only as a speaker volume control in this setup, or does it bypass the A2+ amp section as well?


 
  
 No, it sends a signal to the A2+, which amplifies it. It does not bypass the A2+'s amp.


----------



## bretemm

Stopped making the A2 as in the Asgard2? 





rovopio said:


> Yeah it's too bad they stopped producing the A2. $50 is a lot, given exchange rates.
> 
> Speaking about 'bypassing', does the Magni 2U works only as a speaker volume control in this setup, or does it bypass the A2+ amp section as well?


----------



## rovopio

bretemm said:


> Stopped making the A2 as in the Asgard2?


 

 Audioengine stopped producing Audioengine A2 and replaces them with A2+.
  
  
  
 Quote:


rickb said:


> No, it sends a signal to the A2+, which amplifies it. It does not bypass the A2+'s amp.


 
  
 Theoretically speaking, putting aside SQ differences, what's the difference between the signal sent by an external amp (magni 2 uber) => an A2+, than a signal sent by my PC's motherboard => A2+?
  
 Will the signal sent by my PC's motherboard not 'optimal' to be used for an active speaker?


----------



## RickB

rovopio said:


> Theoretically speaking, putting aside SQ differences, what's the difference between the signal sent by an external amp (magni 2 uber) => an A2+, than a signal sent by my PC's motherboard => A2+?
> 
> Will the signal sent by my PC's motherboard not 'optimal' to be used for an active speaker?


 

 I don't know if there is a difference in the signal other than possibly SQ.
  
 I think the major advantage of using the M2U is not having to use the rear volume control on the Audioengine A2+. That is really inconvenient.


----------



## Bazile

With so many Schiit threads available, I wasn't sure where to comment on Schiit customer service so I picked here. I requested my upgrade from Gnny old to GMB and USB2 on the 15th of Sept. The reply was almost real time. (30 min ish). I shipped ground on the 15th. The e-mail acknowledging receipt was prompt. The work was seemingly immediate, and it was shipped back, with a weekend and burn in time to slow things, on 23 Sept. I received it on the 25th and it sounds as amazing as everyone says. I would like to compliment Schiit in general, and Laura, my e-mail contact, in particular for the excellent work. As good as Schiit products are in general, I think their customer service is better. Kudos Ladies and Gent's. Kudos.


----------



## bretemm

I have the Magni, Modi and Valhalla2, 
Yeah Schiit has great customer service, 
Recently when I got my V2 I got a reply about a problem setting it up within 10min, 
Schiit is awesome and I'm thinking of getting the Bifrost Uber soon. 





bazile said:


> With so many Schiit threads available, I wasn't sure where to comment on Schiit customer service so I picked here. I requested my upgrade from Gnny old to GMB and USB2 on the 15th of Sept. The reply was almost real time. (30 min ish). I shipped ground on the 15th. The e-mail acknowledging receipt was prompt. The work was seemingly immediate, and it was shipped back, with a weekend and burn in time to slow things, on 23 Sept. I received it on the 25th and it sounds as amazing as everyone says. I would like to compliment Schiit in general, and Laura, my e-mail contact, in particular for the excellent work. As good as Schiit products are in general, I think their customer service is better. Kudos Ladies and Gent's. Kudos.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> I have asked to designated threads but no answer because there not active,
> I can't get by powerful magnets and retailers are cheep with where they sell at so I can't get a hands on with amy of the main brands,
> So,
> Just asking
> Thanks


 

 Bye bye and good luck.


----------



## PyroKid99

I have a Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber setup with HD650s and HE-400i's right now and was looking at an AMP/DAC upgrade to either the Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2 and Bifrost. I've heard good things about both...mostly that the Valhalla is good with the higher end Sennheisers, but wouldn't pair well with orthos. Really, I don't know what kind of an improvement I would hear over what I have now or if I'd need better headphones to really appreciate it. 
  
 Would I see a big improvement in a Bifrost and Lyr2/Valhalla2 over the M2U combo? Or would I be better off saving up for a better set of headphones?


----------



## superjawes

pyrokid99 said:


> I have a Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber setup with HD650s and HE-400i's right now and was looking at an AMP/DAC upgrade to either the Lyr 2 or Valhalla 2 and Bifrost. I've heard good things about both...mostly that the Valhalla is good with the higher end Sennheisers, but wouldn't pair well with orthos. Really, I don't know what kind of an improvement I would hear over what I have now or if I'd need better headphones to really appreciate it.
> 
> Would I see a big improvement in a Bifrost and Lyr2/Valhalla2 over the M2U combo? Or would I be better off saving up for a better set of headphones?


Do you like the Magni/Modi combo? If so, focus on the headphones. A Lyr or Valhalla might sound a little better with the HD650, but a new pair of headphones is going to have a much bigger impact.

As for Lyr vs. Valhalla, it all depends on headphones. Valhalla is really good with high impedance headphones, but struggles with low impedance cans (that generally means orthos). Lyr just has gobs of power for everything. On top of that, it opens up more opportunity to roll the tubes, including LISSTs, which means you can switch between tubes and solid state using the same amp.


----------



## jfoxvol

superjawes said:


> Do you like the Magni/Modi combo? If so, focus on the headphones. A Lyr or Valhalla might sound a little better with the HD650, but a new pair of headphones is going to have a much bigger impact.
> 
> As for Lyr vs. Valhalla, it all depends on headphones. Valhalla is really good with high impedance headphones, but struggles with low impedance cans (that generally means orthos). Lyr just has gobs of power for everything. On top of that, it opens up more opportunity to roll the tubes, including LISSTs, which means you can switch between tubes and solid state using the same amp.


 
 Agreed.  No way a Valhalla 2 will drive those Orthos at 35Ohms/93dB.  It is sublime with the HD650s.  If you just want one amp to pull duties for both, then a Lyr2 and grab some LISST tubes and call it done.  
  
 I've not heard the new 2 series modi/magni but understand them to be incredibly good.  A new set of cans would be your best bet, though possibly far more expensive depending on what you get.


----------



## davidflas

I just wanted to add an interesting experience I just had. I've owned a Gungnir for a couple years, upgraded it myself to USB 2.0. A few months ago I bought a Bifrost Uber w/USB 2.0 built in. I finally got around to comparing them head to head in the same system. They sound great, with the Gungnir having just a slight edge over all. The one aspect of the shoot out that surprised me was that the Gungnir does a lot of clicking when connected to my Pioneer Elite PD-65 when first playing, moving from track to track. With the Bifrost, no clicks at all....didn't expect that!


----------



## PyroKid99

superjawes said:


> Do you like the Magni/Modi combo? If so, focus on the headphones. A Lyr or Valhalla might sound a little better with the HD650, but a new pair of headphones is going to have a much bigger impact.
> 
> As for Lyr vs. Valhalla, it all depends on headphones. Valhalla is really good with high impedance headphones, but struggles with low impedance cans (that generally means orthos). Lyr just has gobs of power for everything. On top of that, it opens up more opportunity to roll the tubes, including LISSTs, which means you can switch between tubes and solid state using the same amp.


 
  
 Thanks for the input. I do like the Magni/Modi so far, but really haven't listened to any other good amps/DACs to compare. Especially tube amps which is why I was looking at these two. It sounds like the Lyr is a better all-rounder than Valhalla,  but I probably will be looking in to new headphones first. I'll probably sell my HE-400i's simply due to preferring the HD650s, but I'd like to be able to demo some HD800s and from what I've heard those will greatly benefit from better amps, maybe Valhalla over the Lyr. I just don't want to limit my options down the road if I were to pick up some low impedance cans.


----------



## Astral Abyss

pyrokid99 said:


> Thanks for the input. I do like the Magni/Modi so far, but really haven't listened to any other good amps/DACs to compare. Especially tube amps which is why I was looking at these two. It sounds like the Lyr is a better all-rounder than Valhalla,  but I probably will be looking in to new headphones first. I'll probably sell my HE-400i's simply due to preferring the HD650s, but I'd like to be able to demo some HD800s and from what I've heard those will greatly benefit from better amps, maybe Valhalla over the Lyr. I just don't want to limit my options down the road if I were to pick up some low impedance cans.


 
  
 The Vali sounds really good with the HD650s as well.  It honestly amazes me that little box can put out that kind of sound.  I was going to use the Vali as a starting point for tubes to see if I liked the sound, but I've just found myself going "nah" every time I think about replacing it.


----------



## PyroKid99

astral abyss said:


> The Vali sounds really good with the HD650s as well.  It honestly amazes me that little box can put out that kind of sound.  I was going to use the Vali as a starting point for tubes to see if I liked the sound, but I've just found myself going "nah" every time I think about replacing it.


 
  
 Do you ever use your HD650s with your Lyr 2 or do you prefer to use them strictly with the Vali? Also I'm not sure how much you've compared, but I'm curious how big a change there is from a Modi 2 Uber up to a Bifrost Uber. I'd think there wouldn't be a huge difference dac to dac but, like I said, I've only ever had the Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I ordered the Modi 2 Uber as a birthday present for myself, and I just received it today. I have it hooked up via toslink from my xonar DX, to a Schiit SYS (reversed) and then a Schiit Magni 2 to my ad900x's and yet again I am blown away by the increased clarity! Cranking some Pink Floyd that I've heard hundreds of times and I'm hearing little sounds in the background that I have never been able to discern before. Everything sounds more natural and neutral than the DX's internal DAC.
  
 Having a dedicated DAC and headphone amp is really great, and the SYS (using in reverse to switch between Magni 2 and my speaker amplifier) has no discernible impact on the sound quality.


----------



## bretemm

I might order the Bifrost with Uber Analog soon, but, 
Has anyone used the coaxial input to plug in a radio to use with the Bifrost? 
I'm going to mainly use with valhalla2 with the Bifrost or latter on order another Bifrost to use with my marantz stereo.


----------



## Evil_Spork

jfoxvol said:


> Yeah.  I'm hoping for a Vali 2 down the road with some tweaks.  Maybe in a bigger chassis.  Seriously though, I've done a lot of back and forth with far more expensive amps and this is up there.  Love to hear your impressions.  I've never heard those ATHs.  They look nice.


 
 I ordered the Vali + Modi 2 Uber combo and it arrived in something absurd like 25 hours. A+ to Schiit for being on top of things!
  
 As soon as I got a chance I hooked up my computer to the Modi 2 via Toslink and used the Schiit 6" RCA cables from Modi to Vali.
  
 I've only had a few minutes to listen to the W1000z on the new setup but I can really see what these headphones are capable of now! The soundstage is absolutely gargantuan compared to anything I've heard before! Unfortunately I don't have anything to compare this to so I can't say whether the tubes are coloring the sound at all but the clarity and detail are beyond anything I have experienced. There is a bit more low end oomph as well as a much more rich thick sound in low notes.
  
 I would be very interested to see what someone with a more experienced hear had to say as well. 
  
*Edit:* After a few hours the Vali is quite hot! I know some heat is expected with any electronic device but I'm curious if "hot" normal for the Vali. The top of the case is not alarmingly hot but it is not comfortable to touch. For reference I have the Modi on the desk with the supplied rubber feet, with the Vali on top of it, again with the supplied rubber feet.


----------



## crazychile

evil_spork said:


> *Edit:* After a few hours the Vali is quite hot! I know some heat is expected with any electronic device but I'm curious if "hot" normal for the Vali. The top of the case is not alarmingly hot but it is not comfortable to touch. For reference I have the Modi on the desk with the supplied rubber feet, with the Vali on top of it, again with the supplied rubber feet.


 
  Hot is normal for all the Schiit amps.


----------



## PyroKid99

Does anyone have any experience using the preamp out on the Magni 2 Uber? I had the preamp outputs feeding into a small T-amp for my desktop monitors but was getting really low volumes even turned all the way up, so I went back to feeding the speakers from my UCA-202 DAC but I don't like having to switch audio outputs in Windows each time I go from speakers to headphones. I know the Schiit website says for use with powered speakers so maybe that's it but I'd think taking the pre-amp out into another amp would work just as well, especially when feeding it from my Behringer DAC works at listenable levels.


----------



## Oklahoma

pyrokid99 said:


> Does anyone have any experience using the preamp out on the Magni 2 Uber? I had the preamp outputs feeding into a small T-amp for my desktop monitors but was getting really low volumes even turned all the way up, so I went back to feeding the speakers from my UCA-202 DAC but I don't like having to switch audio outputs in Windows each time I go from speakers to headphones. I know the Schiit website says for use with powered speakers so maybe that's it but I'd think taking the pre-amp out into another amp would work just as well, especially when feeding it from my Behringer DAC works at listenable levels.



How do you control volume with the behringer dac? If you are wanting to use the magni for volume control all other places that you could control the volume need to be set at max. 


Does the t amp have a volume control on it? If it does them make sure the volume is pretty much all the way up as you are using the magni for volume control.


----------



## PyroKid99

oklahoma said:


> How do you control volume with the behringer dac? If you are wanting to use the magni for volume control all other places that you could control the volume need to be set at max.
> 
> 
> Does the t amp have a volume control on it? If it does them make sure the volume is pretty much all the way up as you are using the magni for volume control.


 
 I control the volume on the T-amp. There's no volume control on the dac and then the volume on the T-amp is about 50% for listening levels. If I run it through the magni, I do set the T-amp to close to 100%, but then the Magni has to be at 100% as well and it's still a lower volume than the other set-up. And then the headphone volume is way too high when I go to put those on, which I can turn down to listen to so that isn't as much an issue, but I don't want to leave them plugged in when the Magni 2U is maxxed out even if I'm not wearing them.


----------



## RickB

pyrokid99 said:


> I control the volume on the T-amp. There's no volume control on the dac and then the volume on the T-amp is about 50% for listening levels. If I run it through the magni, I do set the T-amp to close to 100%, but then the Magni has to be at 100% as well and it's still a lower volume than the other set-up. And then the headphone volume is way too high when I go to put those on, which I can turn down to listen to so that isn't as much an issue, but I don't want to leave them plugged in when the Magni 2U is maxxed out even if I'm not wearing them.


 

 What is the software volume control in your music player set to? It needs to be at 100% or close to it.


----------



## CH23

rickb said:


> What is the software volume control in your music player set to? It needs to be at 100% or close to it.


 

 isn't the rule to have any other amp within a chain(that cannot be circumvented) at 75%?
  
  
 also i think the problem is the volume control in windows. try setting that at 75. (don't forget to turn the volume down on all connected devices first)


----------



## RickB

ch23 said:


> isn't the rule to have any other amp within a chain(that cannot be circumvented) at 75%?


 

 Not a software volume control that is going to a DAC. You want that around 100%, or it's going to chop off bits. It will sound better at 100%, too.


----------



## PyroKid99

rickb said:


> What is the software volume control in your music player set to? It needs to be at 100% or close to it.


 
 Hmm, maybe that's it. I know my Windows volume is about 98% and music player volume around 75%, but I can't remember what it was set at back when I had everything running through the Magni. I'll have to double check that later.


----------



## CH23

pyrokid99 said:


> Hmm, maybe that's it. I know my Windows volume is about 98% and music player volume around 75%, but I can't remember what it was set at back when I had everything running through the Magni. I'll have to double check that later.




Make sure it's the correct audio device too.


----------



## LarsP

Got my GungnirMB/Mjølnir2-combo yesterday. I can't wait to get back home and play with them. Initial impressions are OUTSTANDING!


----------



## jfoxvol

larsp said:


> Got my GungnirMB/Mjølnir2-combo yesterday. I can't wait to get back home and play with them. Initial impressions are OUTSTANDING!


 
 Did you go tube, ss, or both?  Glad to hear.  Thinking of adding a tube MJ2 eventually.


----------



## LarsP

Both (+ a Wyrd for good measure). I haven't had much time to compare the default tubes with the LISSTs, but as far as I can tell they both are the Schiit!
  
 Now I only wait for my Ether-C to be delivered.


----------



## fidelcastroil

hey all gonna buy the Schiit Valhalla 2 for the tubey goodness and for the Tesla T1s Im getting as well!


----------



## jfoxvol

fidelcastroil said:


> hey all gonna buy the Schiit Valhalla 2 for the tubey goodness and for the Tesla T1s Im getting as well!




I was just listening to that exact setup tonight. It's pretty darn great. Make sure and let the T1s burn in for several days.I think I have 100 hours or so and I've noticed significant taming in the initial harsh treble. Supposedly it takes 200-300 hours. Congrats on purchase.


----------



## scottcriswell

Previously was using an Audioengine D3 by itself to run my Senn HD 700s while I deliberated on what to get for my first amp.  Decided to get a Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber.   They arrived yesterday and I'm loving them.  I've got the bug now guys, because as I was listening to them, I wondered, "These are great, so how much better will it sound when I buy a Bifrost and Asgard?  Already looking forward to finding out!


----------



## Doneko

scottcriswell said:


> "These are great, so how much better will it sound when I buy a Bifrost and Asgard?  Already looking forward to finding out!


 
  
 That's the problem with upgradeitis. If your gear sounds this great, you still keep wondering how much better that other gear could be...
  
 Next step: Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 + balanced cable!


----------



## scottcriswell

doneko said:


> That's the problem with upgradeitis. If your gear sounds this great, you still keep wondering how much better that other gear could be...
> 
> Next step: Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 + balanced cable!




You're spot on there! I was actually thinking about that, especially since Mjolnir 2 has single ended. I have upgradeitis with my graphics cards as well. 

It's always fun trying to explain to people who don't share the hobby why it's not insane to drop $800 on a card, or buy $750 dollar headphones.


----------



## kurb1980

I just picked up the LYR2 to pair with HE 600!  My first experience with Schiit Audio so I can't wait to hear if I like I may upgrade to the balanced output.


----------



## Ethan Groover

I'm gonna be the owner of a Modi this Monday! Very excited! Gonna be using it with Hifiman He-560's I'll have a week after. I'm curious, how much of, and what kind of improvements should I hear coming away from the Asus Maximus VII's isolated output?


----------



## reddog

doneko said:


> That's the problem with upgradeitis. If your gear sounds this great, you still keep wondering how much better that other gear could be...
> 
> Next step: Gungnir MB + Mjolnir 2 + balanced cable!



The GMB and the MJ2 is a fantastic combo that can make your cans sing.


----------



## JamesBr

fidelcastroil said:


> hey all gonna buy the Schiit Valhalla 2 for the tubey goodness and for the Tesla T1s Im getting as well!


 
 It's pay day?  lucky you! good stuff


----------



## Snodge

Pay day was yesterday for me; the same day that Electromod in the UK added the Mjolnir 2 to their catalogue (but not in stock), and today it is in stock, and I am now awaiting my first dedicated headphone amp to use with my Beyerdynamic DT990 headphones... now I just need to wait (impatiently!) for it!


----------



## jlbrach

the differences as you move up the chain become more and more nuanced....they are there for sure but you have to be concentrating on the music to hear them......the casual and very large differences come earlier in the upgrade process


----------



## scottcriswell

fuhrerkbradley said:


> I'm gonna be the owner of a Modi this Monday! Very excited! Gonna be using it with Hifiman He-560's I'll have a week after. I'm curious, how much of, and what kind of improvements should I hear coming away from the Asus Maximus VII's isolated output?


 

 You will probably notice a much lower noise floor immediately.  I have a Maximus VII Hero as well and there was a decent amount of noise when no audio was playing, and all of that disappeared when I got my first DAC.


----------



## Ethan Groover

scottcriswell said:


> You will probably notice a much lower noise floor immediately.  I have a Maximus VII Hero as well and there was a decent amount of noise when no audio was playing, and all of that disappeared when I got my first DAC.


 
 Good to hear! Can't wait to be all set up. It'll be my first real high end pair of cans (definitely didn't consider my HD700s to be very good with all the fatigue I got from just minutes of listening)


----------



## scottcriswell

fuhrerkbradley said:


> Good to hear! Can't wait to be all set up. It'll be my first real high end pair of cans (definitely didn't consider my HD700s to be very good with all the fatigue I got from just minutes of listening)


 

 I got them through a Massdrop Sale without having listened to them before.  Risky move but I'm overall happy with them.  When you say fatigue what do you mean exactly?  I'm curious if I've been experiencing it too and not been entirely aware of it.


----------



## RCBinTN

fuhrerkbradley said:


> Good to hear! Can't wait to be all set up. It'll be my first real high end pair of cans (definitely didn't consider my HD700s to be very good with all the fatigue I got from just minutes of listening)


 
  
 I've heard the HD700's sing like the angels.  Must be the upstream equipment - what I heard would keep those cans on my head for a long time.  I believe the rig I heard was - UberFrost DAC & Cary HH-1 amp.  Heard this at the Nashville HP meet.  A sweet pairing.


----------



## Billheiser

rcbintn said:


> I've heard the HD700's sing like the angels.  Must be the upstream equipment - what I heard would keep those cans on my head for a long time.  I believe the rig I heard was - UberFrost DAC & Cary HH-1 amp.  Heard this at the Nashville HP meet.  A sweet pairing.


 I'm kinda interested in the HD700. Have heard them twice, not very long each time, but they sounded real good, and preferable to the hd800, for my taste. I assume my uberbihalla2 setup would be quite suitable..


----------



## RCBinTN

billheiser said:


> I'm kinda interested in the HD700. Have heard them twice, not very long each time, but they sounded real good, and preferable to the hd800, for my taste. I assume my uberbihalla2 setup would be quite suitable..


 
  
 I'm not familiar with the uberbihalla2 setup, is that the Bifrost + Valhalla?, but the HD700 have a much warmer SQ than the HD800.  They are also easier to drive.  Please keep in mind that my friend's Cary HH-1 is a $1600 amp...


----------



## raybone0566

billheiser said:


> I'm kinda interested in the HD700. Have heard them twice, not very long each time, but they sounded real good, and preferable to the hd800, for my taste. I assume my uberbihalla2 setup would be quite suitable..


Music direct has a fall clearance sale on the hd700 for 499.00. That's a great deal for those. Very good phones.


----------



## bretemm

I just talked to someone at RMAF and they met the Schiit guys (I don't know who exactly) but they got to meet them and some announcement will be made around 10am


----------



## Billheiser

rcbintn said:


> I'm not familiar with the uberbihalla2 setup, is that the Bifrost + Valhalla?



Yep!


----------



## Ethan Groover

scottcriswell said:


> I got them through a Massdrop Sale without having listened to them before.  Risky move but I'm overall happy with them.  When you say fatigue what do you mean exactly?  I'm curious if I've been experiencing it too and not been entirely aware of it.


 
 Well it certainly isn't deal breaking for every owner of HD 700s, but with any sharp sounding tracks that sounded fantastic on neutral cans, the 700s gave me a headache. I started noticing it when I was comparing to the Oppo PM-3s, and a comfortable listening level sounded great on them, whereas on the 700s, if I got the midrange and bass to a comfortable level, the treble made things like drums hurt like pins poking my head, and peircing vocals like System of a Down were just impossible to handle. Some may call it super detailed, but I find that it is just treble boosted in the area adds to the sharpness of sounds. I looked in several places online, and every frequency graph I could find showed a peak in between 6 and 7 KHz. I had thought that the treble spike many people talked about wasn't gonna be a deal breaker for me, since I don't consider myself treble sensitive at all, but painfully detailed isn't a very enjoyable kind of detailing to me.
  
 I love the Sennheiser sound, and certainly loved the HD 700s, but I need a headphone that is a good all rounder, and the 700s were only good for Jazz, Classical, Acoustic, and *perfectly mixed* stuff; 75% of the rest of the music I listen to was pretty uncomfortable. They are definitely fantastic headphones, but not for every music taste.


----------



## scottcriswell

Ahh yes, I know exactly what you mean.  It doesn't bother me overly much but I can see how it would, particularly with some genres.


----------



## artur9

So Bifrost Multibit...
  
 Differences from the Gungnir is less bits (16 vs 18, IIRC).  Is the supermegaburrito filter the same or slimmed down?  Any other differences aside from those necessary for balanced vs single-ended circuitry?
  
 And, darn!, I just got the Uber upgrade and now there's a "more" uber upgrade.


----------



## jfoxvol

artur9 said:


> So Bifrost Multibit...
> 
> Differences from the Gungnir is less bits (16 vs 18, IIRC).  Is the supermegaburrito filter the same or slimmed down?  Any other differences aside from those necessary for balanced vs single-ended circuitry?
> 
> And, darn!, I just got the Uber upgrade and now there's a "more" uber upgrade.


 
 GMB is actually 19.  It runs two 18 bit chips in hardware balanced, versus single 16 bit chip in BMB(?).  Site FAQ goes into more specifics.  Simpler filter algorithm, power supply, etc...


----------



## bretemm

Being limited to IEMs, 
Would the new BiFrost be good and show even better detail with a Valhalla2? 
(Using only IEMs)


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Being limited to IEMs,
> Would the new BiFrost be good and show even better detail with a Valhalla2?
> (Using only IEMs)


 
  
 for any headphone type and any amplifier, the new DAC should give better clarity.  Having not heard it, I'll defer to folks at the meet to chime in.


----------



## chillaxing

bretemm said:


> Being limited to IEMs,
> Would the new BiFrost be good and show even better detail with a Valhalla2?
> (Using only IEMs)


 
  
  
 Why don't you look into a portable setup, if your only using iem's.
  
 I've used my asg2.5 on my lyr2, and it sounds great, but not ideal.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, 
Well I use a ipod for my portable but I do have a valhalla2, magi and Modi (but I mainly use my valhalla2 and its great) 





chillaxing said:


> Why don't you look into a portable setup, if your only using iem's.
> 
> I've used my asg2.5 on my lyr2, and it sounds great, but not ideal.


----------



## chillaxing

Alright guys, i'm trying to find the root to my problem.
  
 are you guys having any floor noise or static with the lyr2
  
 heres my chain  pc>e18>lyr2>lcd-2 or he-500.  both headsets, i'm getting hissing.
  
 source material is cd's.
  
 I know that I should have a better DAC, but I don't buy into expensive DAC's


----------



## chillaxing

bretemm said:


> Ok,
> Well I use a ipod for my portable but I do have a valhalla2, magi and Modi (but I mainly use my valhalla2 and its great)


 
  
  
 yeah since your only limited to iem's, I would definitely look into a good portable dac/amp.  I would just sell the M&M and get a something that can be used as a DAC only and hook it up to the vahalla when you want to use a desktop setup.
  
 you see my chain, i use my e18+iphone6 on the go, and hook up the e18 to my lyr when i'm at home.


----------



## jfoxvol

chillaxing said:


> Alright guys, i'm trying to find the root to my problem.
> 
> are you guys having any floor noise or static with the lyr2
> 
> ...


 
 I've not had any problems with my Lyr2.  I'd suggest the tried and true troubleshooting method of changing a single item in your chain at a time until you can isolate the source.


----------



## chillaxing

jfoxvol said:


> I've not had any problems with my Lyr2.  I'd suggest the tried and true troubleshooting method of changing a single item in your chain at a time until you can isolate the source.


 
  
  
 yeah, i'm already suspecting that its the e18.....but man, I just love this little jack-of-all-trades.


----------



## crazychile

I had some light crackling once in one of the channels of my Lyr 2. I swapped the tubes around and the noise went to the other channel. So make sure you don't have a tube issue.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well no way am I selling my Schiit haha, 
I'm going to get the new Bifrost and I'm going to plan on using all the connections with my Valhalla2, 
But, what IEM should I look for (specs) that would be the best quality? 





chillaxing said:


> yeah since your only limited to iem's, I would definitely look into a good portable dac/amp.  I would just sell the M&M and get a something that can be used as a DAC only and hook it up to the vahalla when you want to use a desktop setup.
> 
> you see my chain, i use my e18+iphone6 on the go, and hook up the e18 to my lyr when i'm at home.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Ok, well no way am I selling my Schiit haha,
> I'm going to get the new Bifrost and I'm going to plan on using all the connections with my Valhalla2,
> But, what IEM should I look for (specs) that would be the best quality?


 
 Dude, this is like the 37th time you've asked the same question about what IEM to buy.  Choice of DAC makes no difference to spec of IEM.  Match to your amp.


----------



## bretemm

Ok thanks, 
So, should the "clicking" be an issue at all with the new Bifrost? I've seen that some people mentioned clicking if they didn't get the upgrade to Uber analog (on the previous Bifrost) 





jfoxvol said:


> Dude, this is like the 37th time you've asked the same question about what IEM to buy.  Choice of DAC makes no difference to spec of IEM.  Match to your amp.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Ok thanks,
> So, should the "clicking" be an issue at all with the new Bifrost? I've seen that some people mentioned clicking if they didn't get the upgrade to Uber analog (on the previous Bifrost)


 
 Those clicks are muting relays that actuate upon a change in sample rate.  They're supposed to click.  It prevents garbage noise coming through headphones when the DAC is changing operating state.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 
So in your opinion- would the $399 Bifrost be fine? Or like the previous Bifrost upgrade to Uber analog and the diffrence it made, would the higher priced Bifrost be better? 





jfoxvol said:


> Those clicks are muting relays that actuate upon a change in sample rate.  They're supposed to click.  It prevents garbage noise coming through headphones when the DAC is changing operating state.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Thank you!
> So in your opinion- would the $399 Bifrost be fine? Or like the previous Bifrost upgrade to Uber analog and the diffrence it made, would the higher priced Bifrost be better?


 
 I don't really know.  I've not heard the delta sigma upgrade or the new multibit.  I'm partial now to multibit dacs.  YMMV though.  I'd wait to hear impressions/reviews from the CANJAM meet going on this weekend if you're not sure what you want.


----------



## reddog

Lol I might have to get the Bifrost Multibit to go with the LC. I will wait for some impressions first before I pull the trigger.


----------



## chillaxing

bretemm said:


> Thank you!
> So in your opinion- would the $399 Bifrost be fine? Or like the previous Bifrost upgrade to Uber analog and the diffrence it made, would the higher priced Bifrost be better?


 
  
 Seriously, what you have and what your about to purchase is overkill for MOST iem's
  
 Rule of thumb is buy headsets first then accommodate accordingly, unless you know what headsets you are getting and you know what is required to drive them adequately.
  
 You putting to much thought into it.  Just get what you can afford and enjoy, the most important part, the music


----------



## jfoxvol

reddog said:


> Lol I might have to get the Bifrost Multibit to go with the LC. I will wait for some impressions first before I pull the trigger.


 
 You'll have the full schiit bit set.


----------



## rmullins08

reddog said:


> Lol I might have to get the Bifrost Multibit to go with the LC. I will wait for some impressions first before I pull the trigger.


 
 Exactly what I was thinking.  But my body took over and just ordered the Bifrost.  Come on LC!


----------



## reddog

rmullins08 said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.  But my body took over and just ordered the Bifrost.  Come on LC!



Yes I hope the LC is released this November. It will be my birthday gift to myself.


----------



## artur9

jfoxvol said:


> GMB is actually 19.  It runs two 18 bit chips in hardware balanced, versus single 16 bit chip in BMB(?).  Site FAQ goes into more specifics.  Simpler filter algorithm, power supply, etc...


 

 Thanks.  I looked at the FAQ but all it says about the filter is "simpler."  I'd like more detail than that.  No SHARC?  Less than 18000 tap FIR?


----------



## jfoxvol

artur9 said:


> Thanks.  I looked at the FAQ but all it says about the filter is "simpler."  I'd like more detail than that.  No SHARC?  Less than 18000 tap FIR?




We will have to wait for word from Mike or Jason for more details. I'm looking forward to hearing more as well.


----------



## iamxLn

Sorry, but what's the LC


----------



## scottcriswell

iamxln said:


> Sorry, but what's the LC


 

 I'm asking the same question lol.


----------



## jfoxvol

scottcriswell said:


> I'm asking the same question lol.





Liquid Carbon. Cavalli portable amp. guys wondering if it will pair well with new Bifrost multibit DAC.


----------



## reddog

I went to diner and I had a liter of good microbrewed beer and the Bifrost Multibit has me so tempted lol. Although I should wait till I read more impressions. However if I order one now, I can say I own most of everything Schiit Audio makes.


----------



## scottcriswell

I think more financial decisions should be influenced by a liter of good beer!


----------



## rmullins08

iamxln said:


> Sorry, but what's the LC


 
  
  


scottcriswell said:


> I'm asking the same question lol.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/762722/cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon-now-available


----------



## murrays

reddog said:


> I went to diner and I had a liter of good microbrewed beer and the Bifrost Multibit has me so tempted lol. Although I should wait till I read more impressions. However if I order one now, I can say I own most of everything Schiit Audio makes.


 

 Reddog, you are so predictable.  Once again you are being sorely tested. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
 I think you should just have a permanent subscription to Schiit whereby they automatically send any new released product direct to you.
 You'll probably only have to sell a much smaller ancient weapon this time - maybe a pirate dagger or mediaeval spiked club.


----------



## madwolfa

Rocking my motherboard's integrated ALC898 headphone output while Bifrost is out for an upgrade. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Surprised it's actually pretty decent!


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone know when it where the first review/compairison of the old/new bifrost will be avalible?


----------



## rmullins08

bretemm said:


> Does anyone know when it where the first review/compairison of the old/new bifrost will be avalible?


 

 Probably this weekend with CanJam


----------



## bretemm

Ok, so if anything by the 4th? 





rmullins08 said:


> Probably this weekend with CanJam


----------



## reddog

murrays said:


> Reddog, you are so predictable.  Once again you are being sorely tested.
> I think you should just have a permanent subscription to Schiit whereby they automatically send any new released product direct to you.
> You'll probably only have to sell a much smaller ancient weapon this time - maybe a pirate dagger or mediaeval spiked club.  :wink_face:



Lol I will be able to get the Bifrost Multibit, in 4 weeks, and not sell any more weapons lol. I really want the BMB to pair with the LC, so I am not any particular rush to get one.
The only audio device, that could get me to sell my pirate weapons for it, would be the LCD 4 lol. But I will just slowly save up the LCD 4. I need time to enjoy what headphones I have now. I have no doubt that I will get a pair within 6 months.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> Lol I will be able to get the Bifrost Multibit, in 4 weeks, and not sell any more weapons lol. I really want the BMB to pair with the LC, so I am not any particular rush to get one.
> The only audio device, that could get me to sell my pirate weapons for it, would be the LCD 4 lol. But I will just slowly save up the LCD 4. I need time to enjoy what headphones I have now. I have no doubt that I will get a pair within 6 months.


 
  
 Be sure to let us know when you start the inevitable sell-off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm about 99.9% sure I'll be upgrading my Bifrost to the two new ones (already has USB Gen 2).


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> Be sure to let us know when you start the inevitable sell-off
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You can only have one or the other at one time.


----------



## ThurstonX

thurstonx said:


> I'm about 99.9% sure I'll be upgrading my Bifrost to the two new ones (already has USB Gen 2).


 
  


stand said:


> You can only have one or the other at one time.


 
  
 http://schiit.com/products/bifrost  --  from the FAQ:
  
*So can I upgrade my old Bifrost to the new Bifrost “4490” or Bifrost Multibit?
Yes, you can! Both upgrades are listed in the Upgrades section of the site.*
  
 [_*emphasis*_ added]
  
 Ah, I see it now.  Duh... two different (types of) DACs.  So the upgrade path is either the new, better delta-sigma DAC, or the multibit.  Since my Bifrost is an Uberfrost, the Uber upgrade is replaced by necessity in upgrading to the AKM Verita[s]® AK4490 (hhttp://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4490EQ  -- might want to fix the typo on the main Bifrost page).  The "Bifrost Upgrade" replaces the old Uber Analog upgrade.  Got it.  If I upgrade to the multibit, the Uber analog upgrade I added when I bought it stays in place... or is it replaced with either upgrade?  
  
 Pardon my ignorance, just trying to determine which upgrade is the way to go.  Regardless of what happens to the previous Uber Analog upgrade, I'm leaning toward multibit, but I'm trying to understand.  Thanks.


----------



## StanD

thurstonx said:


> http://schiit.com/products/bifrost  --  from the FAQ:
> 
> *So can I upgrade my old Bifrost to the new Bifrost “4490” or Bifrost Multibit?
> Yes, you can! Both upgrades are listed in the Upgrades section of the site.*
> ...


 
 I believe there is place for one board, so take your pick. They both serve the same purpose, D/A Conversion. One begins to wonder if a human can tell the difference between the Uber you already have and these newer options. The THD and IMD in the Uber is already way better than we can tell and the FR is as flat as can be. Well perhaps Rangy can tell, his hearing is better than ours.


----------



## chillaxing

chillaxing said:


> Alright guys, i'm trying to find the root to my problem.
> 
> are you guys having any floor noise or static with the lyr2
> 
> ...


 
@StanD So I tried unplugging pieces and turned the volume up after I took each piece of equipment, and my findings are interesting.  So this is what I did
  
 1. turned off music with every part of the chain hooked up.  found out that my pc is the one emitting interference.  beeping and hissing coming out of headphones when volume at full.
  
 2. unplugged usb from pc to e18, volume all the way up, got dead silence
  
 3. unplugged jack from e18 to lyr, volume all the way up, got hissing and static.  What!?
  
 4. see step 2, dead silence, what!?
  
 5. see step 3, hissing and static, what!?, wait let me change out the tubes.
  
 6. let tubes cool down and changed to Bugle Boy, static and hissing with Bugle Boys too.
  
 so in conclusion.  what I found out is the e18 is a badass dac/amp for what it cost, I have to build another comp with a better mother board,  and the lyr2 produces floor noise.  If anyone wants to test it out on their lyr2 and find different results please post.  This is just all my findings with the unit that I have.


----------



## StanD

@chillaxing Take a peek at what I posted in the other E18 thread about ground loops.


----------



## Baldr

+1


----------



## jeremy205100

I'm very curious to hear how the new $400 Bifrost compares to Bifrost Multibit. I've been wanting an UberFrost for a long time but didn't want to spend the $520. Now it's only $400, but I'm tempted to go with the multibit. I guess it's best to wait for the reviews and then go from there. Needless to say, bravo to Schiit for getting the delta sigma Bifrost down in price and bringing the multibit in cheaper than I expected. 
  
 If I already own a ~$300 delta sigma DAC (the TEAC-UDH01), am I likely to see a dramatic improvement with the $400 Bifrost? Are they that different? Or am I better off saving for a multibit? I've dismissed upgrading my DAC for a long time due to the costs but I'm exploring doing so in a few months because I want one that matches my Asgard 2 and these two new options are enticing.


----------



## deividi

Just received my first desktop amp, the Asgard 2. My first impressions are that it sounds great with Dragonfly v1.2 & T90. It is a clear leap forward from using the df as DAC/amp.


----------



## Suichan

Not sure if this is the best place for this question, but here goes anyway!
  
 I currently have a Schiit Magni 2 plugged into my computer's sound card (ASUS Essence STX II) with Creative GigaWorks T40 II 2.0 speakers and a couple of sets of headphones (Senn HDR180, HD598).
 It all works pretty well but I'm considering splashing out and treating myself with a Schiit Ragnarok & Yggdrasil as a birthday or Xmas (depending on cash!) present for myself, hopefully with a view to getting some better headphones later on down the line too!
  
 The issue is space and heat. My PC room is already a sauna at the best of times and I know Schiit's amps pump out a fair amount to heat.
 The other issue is space - I don't have a great deal near my PC and honestly the only way I can see me fitting the Rag & Yggy in is to use them as a base for my monitor stand.
  
 My question is, do you think it'd be safe to put the monitor on top of the amp & DAC in terms of:
  
 1. Heat buildup in the amp/DAC
 2. Heat FROM those deviced melting my monitor stand or damaging the electronics of the monitor through rising heat, and
 3. Electromagnetic interference of nearby electronics
  
 And to a lesser extent,
 4. Do you personally find that the Yggy and/or Rag output a lot of heat? Is it "unpleasent" to be near? Bear in mind I'm sitting at the desk, with about 55cm/22" from where the front of the Amp&DAC would be to my face!
  
 Here's a photo of my desk as it stands now:
  

  
 You can see the little Magni 2 on the left under my monitor. Looking at the dimensions, the Rag and Yggy would probably reach nearly all the way from one speaker to the other - yeesh!


----------



## StanT

Ragnarok generates a fair amount of heat, Yggy not so much. My Yggy has been on for months and stays around 98F. Ragnarok gets turned on and off and reaches 135F after an hr depending on ambient temp. It won't melt plastic; but it does feel hot to the touch.
  
 I'd have 2 concerns. Ragnarok stacked on top of Yggy is going to be 8" tall, do you want your monitor that high? Also, Ragnarok venting is fairly large and is locate to the right/center of the top. You really don't want to block any venting on the Ragnarok.


----------



## Suichan

stant said:


> Ragnarok generates a fair amount of heat, Yggy not so much. My Yggy has been on for months and stays around 98F. Ragnarok gets turned on and off and reaches 135F after an hr depending on ambient temp. It won't melt plastic; but it does feel hot to the touch.
> 
> I'd have 2 concerns. Ragnarok stacked on top of Yggy is going to be 8" tall, do you want your monitor that high? Also, Ragnarok venting is fairly large and is locate to the right/center of the top. You really don't want to block any venting on the Ragnarok.


 

 Ah! Didn't think about height. Just assumed it'd be similar to the Magni in thickness but yeah you're right, 8" is way too high really. My monitor doesn't go *that* low on its' stand and even so, there's a shelf above it. D'oh! Good point about the venting too, I was wondering whether that would be an issue.
  
 Bugger. Thanks for your response - very helpful! back to the drawing board I guess.


----------



## oAmadeuso

chillaxing said:


> Alright guys, i'm trying to find the root to my problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No noise for me even turned up to 100% at low gain.


----------



## bretemm

I ordered the $399 bifrost today, 
I'll compare it to my modi when I get it. 
(This is my 4th piece of Schiit now)


----------



## iamxLn

bretemm said:


> I ordered the $399 bifrost today,
> I'll compare it to my modi when I get it.
> (This is my 4th piece of Schiit now)




This is the comparison I'm waiting for


----------



## chillaxing

So i'm a little confused about the new and old bifrost.  so if you have an old bifrost uber, its basically the same as buyingthe new bifrost with the delta chip?  so the new bifrost that cost 500+ is the one that has the multibit?  
  
 if i'm wrong can someone clarify it for me.


----------



## bretemm

I forgot more RCA cables but I'll just use the 2 Schiit ones I already have,
With the new valhalla2 I definetly hear a diffrence when I got it va the magni, 
I wonder if the diffrence will be like that or not. 





iamxln said:


> This is the comparison I'm waiting for


----------



## madwolfa

chillaxing said:


> So i'm a little confused about the new and old bifrost.  so if you have an old bifrost uber, its basically the same as buyingthe new bifrost with the delta chip?  so the new bifrost that cost 500+ is the one that has the multibit?
> 
> if i'm wrong can someone clarify it for me.


 
  
 Old Bifrost had an old delta-sigma DAC chip and optional Uber analog upgrade and optional USB upgrade and it cost $519 (if you go "full monty").
  
*New* Bifrost has a *new* delta-sigma DAC and both Uber analog upgrade and USB upgrade are now standard. It costs $399 (that's a "standard" Bifrost now).
*New* Bifrost *Multibit* is the same as normal Bifrost but includes a new R2R DAC section (like in Yggy/Gumby) and costs $599 (that's a TOTL Bifrost now).
  
 Now if you have a Bifrost Uber you have two upgrade paths:
  
 1) Upgrade the DAC section to a new delta-sigma - it costs $100 (and make your Bifrost Uber - modern "standard").
 2) Upgrade the DAC section to a new R2R module - it costs $250 (and make your Bifrost Uber - modern TOTL).


----------



## chillaxing

madwolfa said:


> Old Bifrost had an old delta-sigma DAC and optional Uber analog upgrade and optional USB upgrade and it cost $519 (if you go "full monty").
> 
> *New* Bifrost has a *new* delta-sigma DAC and both Uber analog upgrade and USB upgrade are now standard. It costs $399 (that's a "standard" Bifrost now).
> *New* Bifrost *Multibit* is the same as normal Bifrost but includes a new R2R DAC section (in Yggy/Gumby) and costs $599 (that's a TOTL Bifrost now).
> ...


 
  
  
 thanks for clearing it up for me.  Been seeing old bifrost with all the bells and whistle come up on the classies since the new ones are being shipped out now.  
  
 Now, the new multibit is quit interesting since is one of the cheaper options for r2r chip.
  
 decisions... decisions...


----------



## madwolfa

chillaxing said:


> Now, the new multibit is quit interesting since is one of the cheaper options for r2r chip.


 
  
 I have already shipped mine to Schiit for upgrade, expected to be there on Monday... Can't wait to grab my hands on it.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

chillaxing said:


> Now, the new multibit is quite interesting since is _by far the least expensive_ option for a multibit DAC from a manufacturer with serious warranty and support.


 
  
 Fixed that for you. 
  
 It's also important to note that Bifrost Multibit is also:
  
 1. The only inexpensive multibit option not based on ancient Philips "pull" or "NOS" parts,
 2. The only inexpensive multibit option offering performance far better than chips from the Jurassic Age of digital.
 3. The only inexpensive multibit option with Schiit's proprietary "comboburrito" digital filter.
 4. The only inexpensive multibit option on an upgradable platform so it's future-proof.
  
 Just a few more things to consider...


----------



## chillaxing

madwolfa said:


> I have already shipped mine to Schiit for upgrade, expected to be there on Monday... Can't wait to grab my hands on it.


 
  
  
 lucky you.
  
 ya I've never really dabbled in high end dacs cause i wasn't a believer in it.  to me a well made lower end dac does a good enough job for me.  but i think i'm ready to give the higher end ones a shot.
  
 now do i get a used one and upgrade later, when i feel like it.  or just go all out now.  hmmmmm


----------



## ThurstonX

madwolfa said:


> I have already shipped mine to Schiit for upgrade, expected to be there on Monday... Can't wait to grab my hands on it.


 
  
 +1.  Ordered the multibit yesterday, so I'm probably 8-10 places behind you in the queue.  Another Head-Fier told me the multibit upgrade for the Gungnir was totally worth it.  That sold me.
  
 Very interested to read your impressions in a week or so.


----------



## chillaxing

jason stoddard said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> It's also important to note that Bifrost Multibit is also:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Whoa, i had one of the man come in and correct me and give me more reasons to purchase their schiit  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 you guys are the schiit!!!


----------



## jfoxvol

chillaxing said:


> Whoa, i had one of the man come in and correct me and give me more reasons to purchase their schiit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ask an Ye shall receive.


----------



## Billheiser

chillaxing said:


> Been seeing old bifrost with all the bells and whistle come up on the classies since the new ones are being shipped out now.


 
 Since Bifrosts are made to be upgradeable, seems silly for people to sell an "old" one and buy new one.  The originals can be converted to the new version.


----------



## ThurstonX

jason stoddard said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> It's also important to note that Bifrost Multibit is also:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those points should probably be on the Description or FAQ page.  Just sayin'.


----------



## chillaxing

billheiser said:


> Since Bifrosts are made to be upgradeable, seems silly for people to sell an "old" one and buy new one.  The originals can be converted to the new version.


 
  
  
 thats what i'm thinking too.  but people do, what people do.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

thurstonx said:


> Those points should probably be on the Description or FAQ page.  Just sayin'.


 

 Good point!


----------



## jeremy205100

jason stoddard said:


> Good point!


 

 Could you also put a basic Delta Sigma vs. Multibit section? I'm sure there are others that don't fully understand the difference and benefits/advantages to each.


----------



## theblueprint

jeremy205100 said:


> Could you also put a basic Delta Sigma vs. Multibit section? I'm sure there are others that don't fully understand the difference and benefits/advantages to each.




I don't think schiit can speak about the sonic differences between them. It makes it difficult for those newbies who are new to the whole multibit vs sigma delta actually lol. But yeah, a little bit of research and reading reviews would help a ton.


----------



## bretemm

So I'm on a waiting list for when the bifrost ships? or is it just for the upgrades?


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> So I'm on a waiting list for when the bifrost ships? or is it just for the upgrades?


 

 You don't know what you ordered?


----------



## chillaxing

jason stoddard said:


> Fixed that for you.
> 
> It's also important to note that Bifrost Multibit is also:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Jason, if i buy a used one and have you guys upgrade to the multibit.  Do we still get the 2 year extended warranty?


----------



## bretemm

Yes, I ordered the new bifrost ($399)
So it should ship as usual? It said 1-3 business days to fill the order 





billheiser said:


> You don't know what you ordered?


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Yes, I ordered the new bifrost ($399)
> So it should ship as usual? It said 1-3 business days to fill the order


 

 I interpret that to mean 1-3 business days to fill the order.


----------



## bretemm

Thanks! 
So that "next in line" is only if I upgrade latter on? 





billheiser said:


> I interpret that to mean 1-3 business days to fill the order.


----------



## rmullins08

bretemm said:


> Thanks!
> So that "next in line" is only if I upgrade latter on?


 

 The people talking about the queue are for the upgrades.  I received my shipping notice 17 minutes after ordering the Multibit Bifrost.


----------



## wahsmoh

rmullins08 said:


> The people talking about the queue are for the upgrades.  I received my shipping notice 17 minutes after ordering the Multibit Bifrost.


 

 Me too, I was queue position 3 of 3 when I ordered mine and got a follow up e-mail 15 minutes later telling me to ship mine. So I shipped it yesterday and I'm hoping it will be in my possession sometime by the end of next week.


----------



## ThurstonX

Sometimes ya just gotta give props to the ol' In-tuh-Net (any New Yorkers here??):
  
*Bifrost* (pronounced roughly “BEEF-roast;” Old Norse *Bifröst*) is the rainbow bridge that connects Asgard, the world of the Aesir tribe of gods, with Midgard, the world of humanity.*Bifrost* is guarded by the ever-vigilant god Heimdall.... blah blah blah, rape and pillage, yada yada yada.
  

  
 Being a lazy ol' schiithead, I was just looking for a way to get to the Bifrost page without having to engage the keyboard (highlight, right-click, search with *Googly eyes* [little known fact: the original name of *Google*; you can see how they dropped the *eyes* while performing a little recombination... then Viacom Safeway...? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





])
  
 where was I?  Oh yeah.  *BEEF-roast!!!*  Yeah, that is *rough! * Life in The Lab will never be the same.  Eat yr heart out, Frosty.


----------



## bretemm

Ok! I think if I upgrade I think I'll upgrade it myself, in really good with details and instructions. 





rmullins08 said:


> The people talking about the queue are for the upgrades.  I received my shipping notice 17 minutes after ordering the Multibit Bifrost.


----------



## rmullins08

bretemm said:


> Ok! I think if I upgrade I think I'll upgrade it myself, in really good with details and instructions.


 

 You can't do the Multibit upgrade yourself.  You need to send it back to Schiit


----------



## chillaxing

thurstonx said:


> Sometimes ya just gotta give props to the ol' In-tuh-Net (any New Yorkers here??):
> 
> *Bifrost* (pronounced roughly “BEEF-roast;” Old Norse *Bifröst*) is the rainbow bridge that connects Asgard, the world of the Aesir tribe of gods, with Midgard, the world of humanity.*Bifrost* is guarded by the ever-vigilant god Heimdall.... blah blah blah, rape and pillage, yada yada yada.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 See, you got me google schiit.....  What the hell is Lyr?  tried to google it and got nothing


----------



## ThurstonX

chillaxing said:


> See, you got me google schiit.....  What the hell is Lyr?  tried to google it and got nothing


 
  
 Here ya go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/lyr_2_manual_1_3.pdf
  
  
 Seriously, ya gotta love the Net.  I went from listening to a song called "Where Is Egon Schiele?" to the Wiki page about him, to the Wiki for Bohemia, to a page about a 28,000-year-old archaeological site, to the page about the oldest known ceramic human figurine from said site, to the Amazon reviews page for a book by a husband-and-wife paleoanthropologist team from the University of Michigan about multiregionalism vs. the Eve/Out-of-Africa theory of the evolution of modern humans.
  
 One is only limited by one's imagination.


----------



## chillaxing

thurstonx said:


> Here ya go
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 .... seriously, my amp is named after a hallway... while all the other products gets cool names.  what kind of schiit is that.
  
  
 LOL.  well,  at least i'm not the only one that finds useless info after googling a song or artist


----------



## ThurstonX

chillaxing said:


> .... seriously, my amp is named after a hallway... while all the other products gets cool names.  what kind of schiit is that.
> 
> 
> LOL.  well,  at least i'm not the only one that finds useless info after googling a song or artist


 
  
 Dude.... *hall*, as in a room in which some serious schiit is likely to be going down, esp. in Norse mythology.  Try a little reading comprehension:

 "In Norse mythology, Lyr is Menglad’s *hall* in Jotunheim."
  
 In case you're in doubt, google this:  define: hall
  
*a large room for meetings, concerts, or other events.*
*"Carnegie Hall"*


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Ok! I think if I upgrade I think I'll upgrade it myself, in really good with details and instructions.


Read the info on Schiit.com, all your questions are already answered there, including why you can't upgrade it yourself, even though "in good with details "


----------



## chillaxing

thurstonx said:


> Dude.... *hall*, as in a room in which some serious schiit is likely to be going down, esp. in Norse mythology.  Try a little reading comprehension:
> 
> "In Norse mythology, Lyr is Menglad’s *hall* in Jotunheim."
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Whoa turbo,  no need to get your panties in a bunch.  I just misread it, plus i'm on all kinds of meds fighting a nasty
 cold.
  
  
 Like i said, useless info


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, yea I forgot about that, I read the information when it came out but forgot 





billheiser said:


> Read the info on Schiit.com, all your questions are already answered there, including why you can't upgrade it yourself, even though "in good with details "


----------



## murrays

bretemm said:


> Thank you, yea I forgot about that, I read the information when it came out but forgot


Darn those pesky details.


----------



## Zojokkeli

A tiny voice of reason is starting to nag at me saying maybe I don't need a 3000€ amp to drive TH900's, so does anyone have experience with Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 with said headphones? Asgard 2 was a bit boring and lifeless, but maybe higher end Schiit can kick some life to the Fostex without going totally overboard. Also, can I switch between listening to headphones and speakers, or do the amps power them at the same time?


----------



## money4me247

zojokkeli said:


> A tiny voice of reason is starting to nag at me saying maybe I don't need a 3000€ amp to drive TH900's, so does anyone have experience with Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 with said headphones? Asgard 2 was a bit boring and lifeless, but maybe higher end Schiit can kick some life to the Fostex without going totally overboard. Also, can I switch between listening to headphones and speakers, or do the amps power them at the same time?


 
 correct me if im wrong, but I believe the pre-amp out mute when headphones are plugged in.
  
 should be more than adequate for the th900. go for the lyr 2 since the th900 is hard-wired with a SE cable. unless you want to do cable surgery.


----------



## Mozeryid

Hi guys and girls. 
I've recently purchased a pair of HD650's and I've used an Meridian explorer DAC for previous headphones with no amp. With the 650's being harder to drive can anybody offer advice regarding a suitable amp?
I also have a pair of ACS T2 IEMs which I'd also be using with it. 
I've been looking towards a Schiit products, they any good. 
Cheers.


----------



## artur9

thurstonx said:


> Dude.... *hall*, as in a room in which some serious schiit is likely to be going down, esp. in Norse mythology.  Try a little reading comprehension:
> 
> "In Norse mythology, Lyr is Menglad’s *hall* in Jotunheim."
> 
> ...


 

 Isn't Jotunheim the land of the giants?  If so that's one huge hall.  Maybe it should be Carnegie *Stadium*.  Not sure how it relates....


----------



## jfoxvol

mozeryid said:


> Hi guys and girls.
> I've recently purchased a pair of HD650's and I've used an Meridian explorer DAC for previous headphones with no amp. With the 650's being harder to drive can anybody offer advice regarding a suitable amp?
> I also have a pair of ACS T2 IEMs which I'd also be using with it.
> I've been looking towards a Schiit products, they any good.
> Cheers.





Yes. I have a set of 650s. I'd suggest a Lyr2 with the Lisst solid stated tubes. I use my 650s almost exclusively with the Valhalla 2. But that isn't ideal for iems.


----------



## jfoxvol

mozeryid said:


> Hi guys and girls.
> I've recently purchased a pair of HD650's and I've used an Meridian explorer DAC for previous headphones with no amp. With the 650's being harder to drive can anybody offer advice regarding a suitable amp?
> I also have a pair of ACS T2 IEMs which I'd also be using with it.
> I've been looking towards a Schiit products, they any good.
> Cheers.




Also might want to look into either Asgard 2 or magni 2 uber. I've not heard either but they would be better option for iems. Tbh, the Vali (119) for the 650s and a magni 2 for your iems could work great and it's cheap. Lots of options.


----------



## Mozeryid

Appreciate the quick reply. 
The vahalla2 and Lyr2 were my choices. I've also heard that tube amp's have a different sound, how would you describe the difference? What difference will the LIIST add. 
Would they work with the Meridian?


----------



## jfoxvol

mozeryid said:


> Appreciate the quick reply.
> The vahalla2 and Lyr2 were my choices. I've also heard that tube amp's have a different sound, how would you describe the difference? What difference will the LIIST add.
> Would they work with the Meridian?




I'm not sure. Not familiar with outputs on the meridian. I thought is was integrated DAC/amp. Might want to look into that further. 

Some tube amps can be syrupy and colored. Schiit does not do it that way thank god. Tubes done right will be very articulate and clear with tremendous dynamics. They can warm up the overal tone because they have even order harmonics which reinforce the fundamental tones. I prefer the solid state tubes in the lyr2. It works very well with the hd650. That headphone already has a warm sound. With the Valhalla 2, the stock tubes are phenomenal and it's such a great amp for those 650s. The lyr 2 can be better with different tubes than stock.


----------



## jfoxvol

Well, it does have a line out. You're good. Just get yourself an adaptor cable and you're in business.


----------



## ThurstonX

artur9 said:


> Isn't Jotunheim the land of the giants?  If so that's one huge hall.  Maybe it should be Carnegie *Stadium*.  Not sure how it relates....


 
  
 LOL.  Since I pulled that quote from the Lyr 2 manual, I'll let Jason field that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
 The definition of "hall" came from Google, Carnegie Hall being their example.


----------



## hodgjy

mozeryid said:


> Hi guys and girls.
> I've recently purchased a pair of HD650's and I've used an Meridian explorer DAC for previous headphones with no amp. With the 650's being harder to drive can anybody offer advice regarding a suitable amp?
> I also have a pair of ACS T2 IEMs which I'd also be using with it.
> I've been looking towards a Schiit products, they any good.
> Cheers.


 
 I've driven my HD650s with several amps, and none are better than the TEAC HA-501. It's an overlooked amp, but it's my go-to. Seriously, it's magnificent.


----------



## bretemm

Has anyone gotten a "shiped" email from Schiit? I hope mine ships on Monday.


----------



## hodgjy

I ordered a Gumby on Friday and got a shipped email about 40 minutes later.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, yea I ordered it yesturday, 
Does Schiit still move products around on a sat and sun to ship quicker? 
Thanks 





hodgjy said:


> I ordered a Gumby on Friday and got a shipped email about 40 minutes later.


----------



## MattTCG

I ordered a mjo2 on Friday morning and got the shipped notice about an hour later. The package was not picked up till about 3 though. Just doesn't get much more efficient than that IMO.


----------



## bretemm

So is it probably because I ordered over a weekend is because it hasn't shipped? 
Thanks 





matttcg said:


> I ordered a mjo2 on Friday morning and got the shipped notice about an hour later. The package was not picked up till about 3 though. Just doesn't get much more efficient than that IMO.


----------



## hodgjy

No businesses ship on Sunday. It'll go out tomorrow. Patience.



bretemm said:


> So is it probably because I ordered over a weekend is because it hasn't shipped?
> Thanks


----------



## bretemm

Thanks, 
I'm not meaning to sound impatient, 
I just want my Schiit! 
(They have the best marketing haha) 





hodgjy said:


> No businesses ship on Sunday. It'll go out tomorrow. Patience.


----------



## StanD

chillaxing said:


> So i'm a little confused about the new and old bifrost.  so if you have an old bifrost uber, its basically the same as buyingthe new bifrost with the delta chip?  so the new bifrost that cost 500+ is the one that has the multibit?
> 
> if i'm wrong can someone clarify it for me.


 
 Pretty much except that both new models also include what was the USB option.


----------



## scottcriswell

Not quite. The new Bifrost "4490" is still an upgrade over the old Bifrost Uber, iirc.


----------



## StanD

scottcriswell said:


> Not quite. The new Bifrost "4490" is still an upgrade over the old Bifrost Uber, iirc.


 
 I think it's something that none of us are likely to distinguish under a proper testing environment. The equipment keeps getting better by small amounts (if any), however, we are just the same old human beings wishing for more.


----------



## scottcriswell

Having only listened to a Modi 2 Uber so far I couldn't say one way or the other. That's just what I have heard


----------



## StanD

scottcriswell said:


> Having only listened to a Modi 2 Uber so far I couldn't say one way or the other. That's just what I have heard


 
 There is something called JDD (Just Detectable Distortion) which is the limit of what levels of distortion that we can as humans can detect, the Modi 2 is much better than that. So I wouldn't worry too much. Every year there is a storm of products claiming to be much better than the previous year's offerings, yet we as humans remain unchanged. One would think by now that our abilities of perception have been passed by long ago. I believe that we have difficulty in accepting this, aided by our fertile imaginations and deft marketing, all I can say is that Schiit happens and some folks are willing to spends thousands on DACs alone. If that brings one pleasure, I'm OK with that. I will resist 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the impulse.


----------



## bretemm

Did anyone els order from Schiit on Saturday? 
and gotten a shipping notification yet? 
Thanks


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Did anyone els order from Schiit on Saturday?
> and gotten a shipping notification yet?
> Thanks




businesses dont normally ship on weekends.


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> Did anyone els order from Schiit on Saturday?
> and gotten a shipping notification yet?
> Thanks


 
  They are just getting to work on west coast now.  Businesses rarely ever ship on weekends.


----------



## bretemm

My Schiit Just Shipped! 
I'll be doing a bifrost to modi review when I can.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





jfoxvol said:


> They are just getting to work on west coast now.  Businesses rarely ever ship on weekends.


----------



## bretemm

So with the Coaxial, who uses it with what? I'm wanting to use it with my stereo or get a MARANTZ thaf has the coaxial out so I can have it more dedicated and more inputs to use


----------



## hodgjy

Despite FedEx, traffic, and the universe conspiring against me, I can has a Gumby. Warming it up now, and it sounds magnificent even whole cold. Immediately noticeable. Smooth. No etch or glare. Microdetails.


----------



## ThurstonX

I am Bifrost-less now.  Hope to have it back by Multibit-Monday


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> So with the Coaxial, who uses it with what? I'm wanting to use it with my stereo or get a MARANTZ thaf has the coaxial out so I can have it more dedicated and more inputs to use


 
  
 What are you using it with?


----------



## bretemm

When I use the coaxial I want to use it with a media dedicated marantz, and with that listen to the radio through the bifrost + valhalla2 (before that I'll just use the optical audio with a apple TV) 





cuiter23 said:


> What are you using it with?


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> When I use the coaxial I want to use it with a media dedicated marantz, and with that listen to the radio through the bifrost + valhalla2 (before that I'll just use the optical audio with a apple TV)


 
  
 So for that you'll need marantz coax out --> bifrost and rca out --> valhalla.


----------



## bretemm

Yes, so does that sound like it would be good? 





cuiter23 said:


> So for that you'll need marantz coax out --> bifrost and rca out --> valhalla.


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Yes, so does that sound like it would be good?




Sure, dont see why not. If you are just listening to the radio no need to invest in expensive coax cable.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, well couldn't I just plug the coaxial cable into my stereo headphone jack? Or just get a optical audio to headphone jack tip and plug that into the headphone jack? 





cuiter23 said:


> Sure, dont see why not. If you are just listening to the radio no need to invest in expensive coax cable.


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> Ok, well couldn't I just plug the coaxial cable into my stereo headphone jack? Or just get a optical audio to headphone jack tip and plug that into the headphone jack?




Sorry, long day from work. But this is hurting my head. I think you should've done more research before spending money on a DAC.


----------



## cuiter23

theblueprint said:


> Sorry, long day from work. But this is hurting my head. I think you should've done more research before spending money on a DAC.




lol




bretemm said:


> Ok, well couldn't I just plug the coaxial cable into my stereo headphone jack? Or just get a optical audio to headphone jack tip and plug that into the headphone jack?




I'm trying to help but I have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## bretemm

Haha, 
Ok so, on the Bifrost there's the: 
USB, Coaxil and Optical Audio inputs
And with the Coaxial and Optical Audio, 
Couldn't I get a adapter for the optical audio so I can plug that into my stereo headphone jack? 
Would that be better then the coaxial? 
Inwhich that would be then to the bifrost that goes to my Valhalla2, 
Would that work? Haha 
Thank you for your help! 





cuiter23 said:


> lol
> I'm trying to help but I have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## bretemm

My Schiit Order still only says "left FedEx at 9pm Monday" it hasn't updated again BUT still says delivery on Thursday


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Haha,
> Ok so, on the Bifrost there's the:
> USB, Coaxil and Optical Audio inputs
> And with the Coaxial and Optical Audio,
> ...


 

 Are you just trolling us?


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Haha,
> Ok so, on the Bifrost there's the:
> USB, Coaxil and Optical Audio inputs
> And with the Coaxial and Optical Audio,
> ...




so you want to do computer to marantz to bifrost to valhalla.

if thats right, the headphone out on a PC will not have optical toslink. You need a MAC which headphone outs double up as toslink/mini optical.

Your set up seems redundant in the first place.


----------



## bretemm

Sorry if i seem like I don't know what I'm doing, 
What I want is: 
Marantz headphone jack to Bifrost, EITHER into the optical audio input or coaxial input, 
Then bifrost RCA to valhalla2, 
Would that work? 

(And yes I'm going to use the bifrost usb with my computer) 

Thank you 





cuiter23 said:


> so you want to do computer to marantz to bifrost to valhalla.
> 
> if thats right, the headphone out on a PC will not have optical toslink. You need a MAC which headphone outs double up as toslink/mini optical.
> 
> Your set up seems redundant in the first place.


----------



## theblueprint

What's the model number of your marantz? I want to take a look at it and see what your options are. 

You can't simply headphone out the marantz to the bifrost. The headphone out is an analog signal and the bifrost is a Digital-to-Analog converter. As you can see, this makes no sense at all.


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Sorry if i seem like I don't know what I'm doing,
> What I want is:
> Marantz headphone jack to Bifrost, EITHER into the optical audio input or coaxial input,
> Then bifrost RCA to valhalla2,
> ...




Not possible.


----------



## bretemm

Ok! Thank you! 
Well my marantz is a sr5009


theblueprint said:


> What's the model number of your marantz? I want to take a look at it and see what your options are.
> 
> You can't simply headphone out the marantz to the bifrost. The headphone out is an analog signal and the bifrost is a Digital-to-Analog converter. As you can see, this makes no sense at all.


----------



## bretemm

How about with the 
Marantz NA6005? 
That has a optical audio input and output 





theblueprint said:


> What's the model number of your marantz? I want to take a look at it and see what your options are.
> 
> You can't simply headphone out the marantz to the bifrost. The headphone out is an analog signal and the bifrost is a Digital-to-Analog converter. As you can see, this makes no sense at all.


----------



## crazychile

billheiser said:


> bretemm said:
> 
> 
> > Are you just trolling us?
> ...


----------



## bretemm

Sorry never mind, 
I'll just try it out with different connections. Schiit is great. 
I'm limited to IEMs so that's why I looked into more dedicated headphone amp and dacs and Schiit has great support. 





crazychile said:


> Someone ......became the only person I have ever blocked in over 10 years on head-fi.


----------



## theblueprint

So looking at this, the marantz is a receiver. It doesn't have any digital outs, so you can't go from marantz --> bifrost. You can however go from bifrost --> marantz if you wish to power some speakers. You can also possibly use your bifrost --> Valhalla and preamp the Valhalla to your marantz for your speakers

I think we are all confused as to what you are trying to achieve


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 
But then tho, marantz has the NA6005 inwhich "does" have optical audio in & out, 
So, would that work? 
Thank you for looking that up. 


theblueprint said:


> So looking at this, the marantz is a receiver. It doesn't have any digital outs, so you can't go from marantz --> bifrost. You can however go from bifrost --> marantz if you wish to power some speakers. You can also possibly use your bifrost --> Valhalla and preamp the Valhalla to your marantz for your speakers
> 
> I think we are all confused as to what you are trying to achieve


----------



## ThurstonX

*Schiit Owners Untie!!!*​  
  
  
_"Some people have a way with words.  Other people... oh, uh... not have way."_
 - Steve Martin
  
 Seems to work for audio, too.


----------



## Billheiser

First, put a receiver and dac and hp amp and cables and jacks in a large bowl.  Stir around. Then hook everything up in random order.  So, would that work?


----------



## bretemm

I'll try that! 





billheiser said:


> First, put a receiver and dac and hp amp and cables and jacks in a large bowl.  Stir around. Then hook everything up in random order.  So, would that work?


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> How about with the
> Marantz NA6005?
> That has a optical audio input and output




Yeah, the NA6005 is a network audio player which can output a digital signal to a DAC.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 
I'll plan on getting that next, 


theblueprint said:


> Yeah, the NA6005 is a network audio player which can output a digital signal to a DAC.


----------



## Exidrion

How the fudge can anyone ask so many questions across so many threads and still have no idea what in the flying fudge they're doing at all.

Jesus wept.


----------



## bretemm

Sorry, 
Just asking and planning 





exidrion said:


> How the fudge can anyone ask so many questions across so many threads and still have no idea what in the flying fudge they're doing at all.
> 
> Jesus wept.


----------



## oAmadeuso

It's too AM here to work out what you're trying to do so I will just give one bit of advice.

Whatever you do don't cross the streams. Crossing the streams would be bad.


----------



## bigro

bretemm said:


> Thank you!
> But then tho, marantz has the NA6005 inwhich "does" have optical audio in & out,
> So, would that work?
> Thank you for looking that up.


 
 I take it your are pretty new to audio. Like others I was a little confused so I will make an attempt to help.
  
 I Have a Valhalla2 and just got a BIforst multibit from schiit yesterday. Incredible Combo btw
  
 But The General Chain for a headphone setup for digital music would be. (The arrows show the flow of the signal )
  
 Source----> DAC----> AMP
  
 Source Can Be A computer. Network Media Player a Dap with with right outputs. a Source has to have Outputs compatible with your DAC. The Key here is Outputs A source Must have the ability to output. In your case if you are going to a BIMB you need to have sources with either an Optical out , Coax Out or USB. (you cannot take a line out which is analog and plug it into something that has a digital input. They Must Match. Meaning Optical out --> Optical in  or Line out(Analog) to Line in(Analog) Coax is a Digital Signal.
  
 A Standalone DAC has one main Job in life, Take whatever Comes into its Digital Inputs and Process the data and output an analog signal that way you get music instead of the sound of logging into AOL through a Modem. You cannot ever try to directly connect analog output of any device directly into a digital input (or the other way around for that matter). that's like trying to put the circle in the square shaped hole in the Kindergarten game.
  
  
 ----- So Now We have a Source That Has A digital output in your case it will be the Marantz NA6005. You will Hook the Digital Optical Output of the Marantz to the Optical Input of the BIMB----
  
  
 Now We have Amplification. I believe from piecing your posts together you have a Valhalla 2.  So we now have to get the Analog Signal that The DAC is outputting to the Amp.
 The BIMB  Has One Analog output in the form of RCA Jacks. (if your are stacking those little pyst cables from schiit are perfect). You take the Analog output (RCA JACK) of the BIMB and connect that to the RCA Input of the Amp. An amplifier such as the V2 Only deals with analog. The Valhalla2 has inputs and outputs so make sure you have the cables coming out of the BIMB going to the INPUT of the Valhalla 2.
  
 At this point you Can go two Ways to get music from the V2. I think your doing cans so your output would be the headphone jack in the front. Plug cans in and enjoy.
  
 The outputs on the back of the Valhalla 2 allow you to go to an Amplifier for speakers or to powered monitors Which is how I used them.
  
 I hope this clarifies things some.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! Yes that's how I want set it up! Eaither there's a $600 marantz that has only optical in&bout or theres a $1100 that has all 3 inputs&bout (coaxial, optical and usb) would optical audio be the best? 

Thank you for your help! And summarizing everything! 





bigro said:


> I take it your are pretty new to audio. Like others I was a little confused so I will make an attempt to help.
> 
> I Have a Valhalla2 and just got a BIforst multibit from schiit yesterday. Incredible Combo btw
> 
> ...


----------



## ThurstonX

For airfare or gas money + mileage, and room & board, I will come to any of y'all's homes or businesses to hook up yer schiit.
  
 Rangy is own li'l guy, and has his own demands requirements


----------



## bigro

bretemm said:


> Thank you! Yes that's how I want set it up! Eaither there's a $600 marantz that has only optical in&bout or theres a $1100 that has all 3 inputs&bout (coaxial, optical and usb) would optical audio be the best?
> 
> Thank you for your help! And summarizing everything!


 
 Both Optical and Coaxial Are S/PDIF, which stands for Sony/Phillips Digital Interface (Internet Searching is your Friend) but use a different Medium or cable. Optical uses TOSLINK and COAXIAL Uses a well, A coax cable with RCA ends. (A note on this while an RCA cable may work on a coax connection a COAX cable is different that a standard RCA interconnect cable). I'm no Engineer but your output Quality should be the same.
  
 As Far as which cable is better I use both. I like Optical but I work with Fiber all day so I am Biased. But I use COAX on my modi2u and now the Bifrost MB.
  
 If the $600 Marantz Network Player will Output the same as The Coax of the $1100 One. meaning max of say 24/192 . I don't see paying almost double the price for the Coax output unless it had other features that are worth it . Also If you are Talking about the NA8005 ($1100) it Only has Optical and Coax Output.
  
 From Marantz's Website
  
*DIGITAL OUTPUT*

*Digital Coaxial**1*
 

*Digital Optical**1*
 
  
 DIGITAL INPUT

Digital Coaxial1
 

Digital Optical1
 

USB (Front)iPod / iPhone compatible
 

USB (Rear)Input for PC
 
 OTHER
  
  
  
 Need to pay attention to the Input and outputs other wise you will be spending a lot of time trying to make a Circle Fit in a Square Hole


----------



## Billheiser

thurstonx said:


> For airfare or gas money + mileage, and room & board, I will come to any of y'all's homes or businesses to hook up yer schiit.
> 
> Rangy is own li'l guy, and has his own demands requirements


 

 Good, go to the guy's house; I think he's buying equipment randomly so he could channel that into travel expenses for you.  Also bill him for the PTSD counseling you will need right after.


----------



## Astral Abyss

exidrion said:


> How the fudge can anyone ask so many questions across so many threads and still have no idea what in the flying fudge they're doing at all.
> 
> Jesus wept.


 
  
 It's madness.


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> For airfare or gas money + mileage, and room & board, I will come to any of y'all's homes or businesses to hook up yer schiit.
> 
> Rangy is own li'l guy, and has his own demands requirements



If I had the money I would gladly fly you to my home and let you check out my stacks of schiit. My spontaneous purchase, this last Friday night has emptied my savings for this year. I need to control my audiophile monkey, before I do something stupid.


----------



## ThurstonX

reddog said:


> If I had the money I would gladly fly you to my home and let you check out my stacks of schiit. My spontaneous purchase, this last Friday night has emptied my savings for this year. I need to control my audiophile monkey, before I do something stupid.


 
  
 You do have some epic schiit, my friend


----------



## reddog

thurstonx said:


> You do have some epic schiit, my friend



I agree yet in a fit of sleep walking I ordered a Cavalli Audio liquid Crimson. I have put all my credit cards in a bank deposit box. My uncle has agreed to buy my Asgard 2, lyr 2, alpha primes, to help me pay for the new amp. I have not slept in days and I am making bad decisions. My Doc will try acupuncture today, too stop my leg spasms.


----------



## MWSVette

reddog said:


> If I had the money I would gladly fly you to my home and let you check out my stacks of schiit. My spontaneous purchase, this last Friday night has emptied my savings for this year. I need to control my audiophile monkey, before I do something stupid.


 
 Andrew, I'll drive to your house to check out your Schiit... lol


----------



## Letmebefrank

bretemm said:


> Thank you! Yes that's how I want set it up! Eaither there's a $600 marantz that has only optical in&bout or theres a $1100 that has all 3 inputs&bout (coaxial, optical and usb) would optical audio be the best?
> 
> Thank you for your help! And summarizing everything!




One thing that someone got wrong is they said only Mac has combo headphone/toslink jack, this is not true, many sound cards that are made for PC have this dual jack. It is possible that your motherboard has this jack but you would have to research your motherboard model, because not all headphone Jacks have toslink.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you! 





letmebefrank said:


> One thing that someone got wrong is they said only Mac has combo headphone/toslink jack, this is not true, many sound cards that are made for PC have this dual jack. It is possible that your motherboard has this jack but you would have to research your motherboard model, because not all headphone Jacks have toslink.


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> Andrew, I'll drive to your house to check out your Schiit... lol :tongue_smile:



You are welcome to my house anytime, to listen to my stacks of schiit. Just let me know when so I can gather it all, into one room.


----------



## jfoxvol

Count me in!


----------



## Billheiser

jfoxvol said:


> Count me in!



Hey everybody, party at reddog's place. Andrew, I will need organic scotch and gluten free kosher food. You'll need to provide plenty of extra beds and stuff. I call dibs on the hot tub and Ragnorak. See y'all in an hour.


----------



## jfoxvol

I'll bring the Scotch and an extra Ragnarok


----------



## pwoznic

Does the new bifrost offer much of an upgrade over the modi 2 uber if I'm just going to use either DAC (pc and game consoles) with active studio monitors (Emotiva Airmotiv 5s)?


----------



## wahsmoh

pwoznic said:


> Does the new bifrost offer much of an upgrade over the modi 2 uber if I'm just going to use either DAC (pc and game consoles) with active studio monitors (Emotiva Airmotiv 5s)?


 

 It should be a significant upgrade even for speakers. I had a Bifrost Uber and also own a Theta DS Pro Progeny v. A. The Progeny A poops on the Uber in every single way possible. I mean you don't realize how unnatural it sounds in comparison afterwards. *Everything I'm saying should be taken with a grain of salt and also sorted through the hyperbole.*
  
 Lets just say this. I wanted to be fair to the Bifrost Uber and tested songs I am very familiar with from Carlos Santana. Samba Pa Ti and Oye Como Va. The Theta DS Pro Progeny had a much larger soundstage (depth, width, L/R separation) and a more natural image and the Uber had slightly less fleshed out midrange. Tonally the Uber is pretty spot on, it is just lacking in imaging qualities and natural ease that become very discernible while listening under the microscope of headphones versus speakers.
  
 The Bifrost Uber by comparison sounded slightly unfocused (yet still detailed) with a squashed soundstage that wasn't as round or circular as the Theta.
  
 Sounds coming from behind you actually sound like they're coming from behind you versus diagonally L/R and sounds to the left and right are layered better and sound more distant from your ears w/ the Theta than the Uber. Also the Bifrost Uber requires more on the volume knob to get sound output.
  
 The Theta has a boosted output by a few dB and doesn't require the amp to be turned as far right. Maybe that contributes to a more authoritative and  hefty sound versus the less dynamic and textured Bifrost Uber?
  
 I know that would only be part of the story because the soundstage differences are far from subtle but actually noticeable while playing video games. The Theta absolutely kicks ass at first person shooter video games with positioning gunshots and three-dimensional sound. Usually audio DACs suck for video games but this is not the case.
  
 My upgraded Bifrost MB is getting shipped back to me tomorrow so I will be able to do comparisons with the Theta DAC after burn-in and some night time listening.


----------



## bigro

pwoznic said:


> Does the new bifrost offer much of an upgrade over the modi 2 uber if I'm just going to use either DAC (pc and game consoles) with active studio monitors (Emotiva Airmotiv 5s)?


 
  
 For Music I believe Yes it absolutely Does I don't know how much of a difference it will make for gaming . Wahsmoh's description of the Theta Vs. BF Uber. Is pretty close to what I heard with the Modi 2 U Vs Bifrost MB. The Modi 2 U Is Still a very Good Dac though I use one at work and after drowning In Multi bit goodness at home Going back to work and the Modi 2 u was not terribly Painful . It lacks some the detail and finesse of the MB but Still very good.


----------



## rush2049

I got my setup cobbled together finally.
  

 Audeze LCD-2 Bamboo
 Pexon Audeze Cable [550 Kelly Green and Silver]
 Schiit Mjolnir 2 w/ Schiit Lisst
 Schiit Gungnir Multibit
  
  
 Though I probably have to send the gungnir back for a small issue with the single ended outs.
  
 (Cross posting this to the schiit owners, mjolnir 2, and gungnir threads)


----------



## madwolfa

rush2049 said:


> I got my setup cobbled together finally.


 
  
 I see the fellow /r/MechanicalKeyboards member...
  
 Represent. http://i.imgur.com/C26sWXz.jpg


----------



## bretemm

With Schiit and "Multibit", who is multibit mainly for?


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> With Schiit and "Multibit", who is multibit mainly for?




You just bought a new bifrost. Don't even think about multibit and simply enjoy your music. Spend some good time with your new toy and then when the time is right, you'll upgrade and truly appreciate the multibit upgrade.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, but how much of a difference does it make?





theblueprint said:


> You just bought a new bifrost. Don't even think about multibit and simply enjoy your music. Spend some good time with your new toy and then when the time is right, you'll upgrade and truly appreciate the multibit upgrade.


----------



## Tuco1965

bretemm said:


> Ok, but how much of a difference does it make?




You keep asking the same question that nobody can answer yet.


----------



## bretemm

Ok! I't looks like It will be here soon, I might change my modi and MAGNI cables to some other rca cables I found so I can use the Schiit ones. 





tuco1965 said:


> You keep asking the same question that nobody can answer yet.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> With Schiit and "Multibit", who is multibit mainly for?



With random vague questions, who are they mainly for?


----------



## ThurstonX

OK, I'm outta here.  If anyone's interested, I can post some impressions of the Multibit Bifrost once I get it (early next week? Schiit will have it today).  I can only compare it to my M-Audio AP192 soundcard, and HifimeDIY Sabre U2, though the M-Audio is much better.
  
 Have fun kids


----------



## theblueprint

tuco1965 said:


> You keep asking the same question that nobody can answer yet.




This. brettem, can you cool it with the spamming? You're ticking off a lot of members in every schiit thread. Most of your questions have been asked (either by you or other members), so please be patient.


----------



## bretemm

Sorry, I do search but don't find anything, then someone mentions they have heard or demoed, so, I just how/what's there take on it 





theblueprint said:


> This. brettem, can you cool it with the spamming? You're ticking off a lot of members in every schiit thread. Most of your questions have been asked (either by you or other members), so please be patient.


----------



## wahsmoh

Ughh it's such a bummer when you see your USPS tracking and they have their stuff sorted out for delivery in the morning at your local post office.. which is a block away. Let me pick it up instead


----------



## bretemm

Same here, did you get the bifrost? 





wahsmoh said:


> Ughh it's such a bummer when you see your USPS tracking and they have their stuff sorted out for delivery in the morning at your local post office.. which is a block away. Let me pick it up instead


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Sorry, I do search but don't find anything, then someone mentions they have heard or demoed, so, I just how/what's there take on it


 

 I don't think you are understanding.  We're asking you not to post repetitive or worthless questions.  Just because you still want to, doesn't mean you should.


----------



## raybone0566

Seems like every thread I'm subscribed to has been trolled by a nut job recently.


----------



## bretemm

I do search beofre I post, I'm on my phone most of the time, 
I'll be doing a review on the bifrost when I get it today


----------



## rush2049

raybone0566 said:


> Seems like every thread I'm subscribed to has been trolled by a nut job recently.


 
 We're all audiophiles.... so the whole lot of us are nutjobs


----------



## jaaron53

rush2049 said:


> We're all audiophiles.... so the whole lot of us are nutjobs


 
 Cheers to that.


----------



## lonewolfe2015

Anyone notice that 'finish' was added to the dropdowns for a lot of products? They appear to be exclusively "Silver" and "Silver B Stock", but the Mjolnir 1 has Black listed. Makes me wonder if we're finally going to get Black as an option regularly.


----------



## theblueprint

lonewolfe2015 said:


> Anyone notice that 'finish' was added to the dropdowns for a lot of products? They appear to be exclusively "Silver" and "Silver B Stock", but the Mjolnir 1 has Black listed. Makes me wonder if we're finally going to get Black as an option regularly.




Jason recently made a post about that. Basically all the B stocks will appear under finish. I don't think black is going to be a regular option though.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

theblueprint said:


> Jason recently made a post about that. Basically all the B stocks will appear under finish. I don't think black is going to be a regular option though.


 

 The official word on black:
  
 When we have them, black products will appear in the "finish" category. I don't anticipate we'll have black all the time, nor do I anticipate there will be much black product...so if you see it, and you want black finish, grab it!


----------



## lonewolfe2015

jason stoddard said:


> The official word on black:
> 
> When we have them, black products will appear in the "finish" category. I don't anticipate we'll have black all the time, nor do I anticipate there will be much black product...so if you see it, and you want black finish, grab it!


 
  
 Sounds like I'll have to continually stalk the website... challenge accepted.
  
 Thanks for responding directly.


----------



## johnjen

bretemm said:


> Ok, but how much of a difference does it make?


3

The answer is 3.

Patience grasshopper.
In due course others will chime in and provide their feedback.

But asking questions such as these, where any answer is subjective to start with, system dependent in the 2nd place, and 3rd there is no possible answer that will match your experience, just adds to the noise quotient. 

I think we can all relate to the excitement you feel that motivates you to want to know, thus you ask questions.
But at this stage of your learning about this whole arena, it will serve you better to listen to what others are contributing, rather than asking nearly unanswerable questions.

Or better yet if your circumstance allows, find out for yourself.

Go to local meets (if possible), and listen to setups others have put together.

In short gain some experience with not only what is available but what your own preferences truly are.
This takes time and effort, but it would appear that you have plenty of time to explore these various aspects of this hobby, that does fascinate us so.

JJ


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 





johnjen said:


> 3
> 
> The answer is 3.
> 
> ...


----------



## bigro

What Mr. Miyagi (johnjen) said.
  
 Don't get caught up in who has the best numbers, shiniest face plate or who thinks whats better than what.  Slow down grab a glass of scotch, Whiskey or a whatever you prefer and enjoy the music,  At the end of the day That's whats its all about.
  
 Quote:


johnjen said:


> 3
> 
> The answer is 3.
> 
> ...


----------



## RCBinTN

reddog said:


> If I had the money I would gladly fly you to my home and let you check out my stacks of schiit. My spontaneous purchase, this last Friday night has emptied my savings for this year. I need to control my audiophile monkey, before I do something stupid.


 
  
 LCD-4  
 Calling your name...
 Reddog...I'm the One...


----------



## reddog

rcbintn said:


> LCD-4
> Calling your name...
> Reddog...I'm the One...



Quiet you lol, that headphone does haunt me. But what really tempts me because it has been discontinued, is Cavalli's Liquid Glass. The Damned Audeze LCD 4 will still be tempting me next year. The Liquid Glass will soon be sold out and I wanted to hear this amp drive my headphones. Lol one can not always get what one wants.


----------



## bretemm

HAVE MY BIFROST SETUP! 
Thank you all for the help! 
sorry for any dumb questions! 

I think I notice a bigger "space" already and not as high pitch, I'm listening to some indie music songs that regularly come up on a station as they did on my modi/valhalla2 setup, 
Now it's a Bifrost-Valhalla2 setup!


----------



## Letmebefrank

Jason is a beast! Schiit rules!


----------



## Evil_Spork

bretemm said:


> HAVE MY BIFROST SETUP!
> Thank you all for the help!
> sorry for any dumb questions!
> 
> ...


 
 Are you really spending thousands of dollars on all this awesome equipment to listen to FM radio? Has FM radio been your only source this whole time?


----------



## bretemm

Haha, NO! ...I'm going to get a better sourse for flac/HD music, I'm still figuring out actual good sourses that are on YouTube 





evil_spork said:


> Are you really spending thousands of dollars on all this awesome equipment to listen to FM radio? Has FM radio been your only source this whole time?


----------



## Evil_Spork

bretemm said:


> Haha, NO! ...I'm going to get a better sourse for flac/HD music, I'm still figuring out actual good sourses that are on YouTube


 
 With digital input your source just needs to be high quality music files or a decent CD/record player basically. Your cell phone with FLAC files would be fine! Just hook it up via USB to the DAC and you're off to the races.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I still need to get a 15ft A-B USB cord, my brother found a good CD place that has some great quality CDs that I'll get some from. 





evil_spork said:


> With digital input your source just needs to be high quality music files or a decent CD/record player basically. Your cell phone with FLAC files would be fine! Just hook it up via USB to the DAC and you're off to the races.


----------



## RCBinTN

reddog said:


> Quiet you lol, that headphone does haunt me. But what really tempts me because it has been discontinued, is Cavalli's Liquid Glass. The Damned Audeze LCD 4 will still be tempting me next year. The Liquid Glass will soon be sold out and I wanted to hear this amp drive my headphones. Lol one can not always get what one wants.


 
  
 Go for the Glass.
 In the meantime, I may go for the 4.  It's starting to pull me in...
 If so, it will be available to hear at the Nashville meet Spring 2016.


----------



## bretemm

I actually tried planing a FLAC video on your tube, and it didn't sound as good vs the modi, I don't know if it was just my IEMs connection or not. But it did sound set "back" more and more "space" 





evil_spork said:


> With digital input your source just needs to be high quality music files or a decent CD/record player basically. Your cell phone with FLAC files would be fine! Just hook it up via USB to the DAC and you're off to the races.


----------



## Evil_Spork

The edit button is your friend. No need to post multiple times in a row, especially when you're quoting the same post in both messages.


----------



## bretemm

Ok! So I just cleared it and now I'm reapplying


----------



## bretemm

With the new ($399) bifrost, 
So far vs the Modi, 
I'm not sure if you want to call it "noise" but it seems like music is more "definite" and there's absolutely more space and has more of a "setback" feeling (good) 
Then also with "noise" I hear no sound from the valhalla when the song ends unlike with the modi. 
I kinda hear more bass and lows.


----------



## jeremy205100

bretemm said:


> With the new ($399) bifrost,
> So far vs the Modi,
> I'm not sure if you want to call it "noise" but it seems like music is more "definite" and there's absolutely more space and has more of a "setback" feeling (good)
> Then also with "noise" I hear no sound from the valhalla when the song ends unlike with the modi.
> I kinda hear more bass and lows.


 

 If I recall correctly he is still using a $15 pair of Klipsch earbuds with $800 of audio equipment. Some people just need others to justify their buying decisions...


----------



## Evil_Spork

jeremy205100 said:


> If I recall correctly he is still using a $15 pair of Klipsch earbuds with $800 of audio equipment. Some people just need others to justify their buying decisions...




I don't think any DAC or amp could give FM radio or $15 earbuds (let alone combined) anything that could be referred to as a soundstage...


----------



## jeremy205100

evil_spork said:


> I don't think any DAC or amp could give FM radio or $15 earbuds (let alone combined) anything that could be referred to as a soundstage...


 

 He just needs to spring for the multibit upgrade...


----------



## bretemm

Im thinking about soon getting westone or the klipsch x11i 





evil_spork said:


> I don't think any DAC or amp could give FM radio or $15 earbuds (let alone combined) anything that could be referred to as a soundstage...


----------



## Evil_Spork

jeremy205100 said:


> He just needs to spring for the multibit upgrade...




Haha. 
On a serious note I finally messed with the eq in the music player app using my phone as source via USB and holy hell does the Vali sound great! I didn't think my cans or the Vali were suited for drum and bass or anything remotely like it but the bass just came pouring out while somehow still retaining detail. I'm massively impressed by these little boxesboxes. I can't imagine how much of an upgrade the bigger brothers could even provide!


----------



## bretemm

What diffence should that make? 





jeremy205100 said:


> He just needs to spring for the multibit upgrade...


----------



## Evil_Spork

bretemm said:


> What diffence should that make?



Did you hear that whoosh sound? That was his joke going over your head 




bretemm said:


> Im thinking about soon getting westone or the klipsch x11i



I may not be an expert on this stuff but (most) high end headphones work without a high end amp, but a high end amp doesn't do much on its own. It seems to me like throwing a grand at amplification without anything to use it on is an exercise not unlike trying to shine a turd. 

I owned a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-A700 for a decade and enjoyed the hell out of them before buying any sort of amp or DAC. 

Priorities my man! Even a mid-range set of IEM's will be pretty good just plugged into your cell phone.


----------



## bretemm

Ok! But tho I do hear allot more quality vs my iPod, I've narrowed it down to acouple IEMs that I like but the cost and m not sure how many drivers are good or what's just too many? 





evil_spork said:


> Did you hear that whoosh sound? That was his joke going over your head
> I may not be an expert on this stuff but (most) high end headphones work without a high end amp, but a high end amp doesn't do much on its own. It seems to me like throwing a grand at amplification without anything to use it on is an exercise not unlike trying to shine a turd.
> 
> I owned a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-A700 for a decade and enjoyed the hell out of them before buying any sort of amp or DAC.
> ...


----------



## rovopio

bretemm said:


> Ok! But tho I do hear allot more quality vs my iPod, I've narrowed it down to acouple IEMs that I like but the cost and m not sure how many drivers are good or what's just too many?


 
  
 Focus on the sound signature you might like from the IEMs you're trying to buy / audition. Driver number, to a degree, doesn't mean as much as the sound signature you like.
  
 Final Audio products use 1 driver but they have their fans.
 A Noble product use 2 driver and they also have their fans.
  
 I'm using a triple-driver IEM but I'm not exactly in love with the sound, it's too sibilance. So basically, research the sound signature first. As long as your budget is at a certain price bracket (say, ~$200 to ~$400), it's more preference than anything.


----------



## Evil_Spork

bretemm said:


> Ok! But tho I do hear allot more quality vs my iPod, I've narrowed it down to acouple IEMs that I like but the cost and m not sure how many drivers are good or what's just too many?




Firstly please proof read your posts. It's really difficult to figure out what you're saying half the time due to typos and spelling errors. And no, posting from a phone is not an excuse. 

Secondly just take a stab in the dark at something in your price range that sounds like it might fit your music or listening preferences. Most companies have a sort of sound signature, you may find one you like, you may not. If they suck and you hate the sound just sell them and get another! 

I got lucky by listening to a friend's A-T cans many years ago and I fell in love with their sound. Others hate it though! Personally I couldn't stand how the couple Senn headphones I tried sounded. It's all subjective. No one but you can tell you what you like.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, well I mainly listen to indie rock and I like bass as in to "fill in" space and not overwhelm. 


rovopio said:


> Focus on the sound signature you might like from the IEMs you're trying to buy / audition. Driver number, to a degree, doesn't mean as much as the sound signature you like.
> 
> Final Audio products use 1 driver but they have their fans.
> A Noble product use 2 driver and they also have their fans.
> ...


----------



## johnjen

jeremy205100 said:


> He just needs to spring for the multibit upgrade...





bretemm said:


> What diffence should that make?


Damn the smilies on this site suck...

We need a Hook Line & Sinker smilie… :atsmile:

And several dozen more, just to round out the collection.

JJ


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> What diffence should that make?




About over 9000.


----------



## reddog

rcbintn said:


> Go for the Glass.
> In the meantime, I may go for the 4.  It's starting to pull me in...
> If so, it will be available to hear at the Nashville meet Spring 2016.



I am tempted to get the Liquid Glass but I can understand why you are drawn to the LCD4. It has tempted me. I like the fact each headphone is built to order, that should insure quality build.


----------



## keoki

I apologize if this was already asked, but which Schiit combo will sound best with the HD 700? I currently have a direct DAC with a Beyerdynamic A20 and they sound too bright. What would be the best combination between the magni 2, Valhalla 2, Asgard 2, Modi 2, and bitfrost for the HD 700?


----------



## cuiter23

keoki said:


> I apologize if this was already asked, but which Schiit combo will sound best with the HD 700? I currently have a direct DAC with a Beyerdynamic A20 and they sound too bright. What would be the best combination between the magni 2, Valhalla 2, Asgard 2, Modi 2, and bitfrost for the HD 700?


 
  
 If you want to tame the brightness you should go for a tube amp (Valhalla). You will lose the speed though.


----------



## keoki

cuiter23 said:


> If you want to tame the brightness you should go for a tube amp (Valhalla). You will lose the speed though.




Thanks for your input. I only had Solid State amp, is there anything I should know or what tube sounds good paired with the Vaihalla? Is Vaihalla my best option or should I look at bottlehead's crack or higher model? Sorry for the noobie questions.


----------



## bigro

The Stock tubes that come with the Valhalla 2 are actually very good and already matched. If you go that route make sure you give those tubes a good work out before deciding if you want to roll them or not. They need a decent amount of play time to settle in.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> I am tempted to get the Liquid Glass but I can understand why you are drawn to the LCD4. It has tempted me. I like the fact each headphone is built to order, that should insure quality build.


 
  
 I've had many conversations with Dan Clark asking about advice for the Ether with regard to amplification. He often has long drawn out responses to my questions. When I asked him about getting a Liquid Glass for the Ether, his response was...
  
 "Do not hesitate."


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> I've had many conversations with Dan Clark asking about advice for the Ether with regard to amplification. He often has long drawn out responses to my questions. When I asked him about getting a Liquid Glass for the Ether, his response was...
> 
> "Do not hesitate."




Arg I think I might have abuse a credit card, thanks for your advice. Although I will wait till the middle of next week. Please have fun enjoying you MJ2.


----------



## MattTCG

^^Just gave mjo2 a quick listen after about 12 hours of cook time. Let me just say that I'm liking the results so far.


----------



## BobFiggins

keoki said:


> I apologize if this was already asked, but which Schiit combo will sound best with the HD 700? I currently have a direct DAC with a Beyerdynamic A20 and they sound too bright. What would be the best combination between the magni 2, Valhalla 2, Asgard 2, Modi 2, and bitfrost for the HD 700?


 
  
 Vali if you want to smooth out the HD 700 and bring it down a notch. I like Vali because it's very relaxing yet very resolving, less of a bass thump and the brightness definitely comes down a touch. Valhalla 2 if you want to turn the HD 700 into a monster. By monster I mean it as a good thing. Bump up the PRAT, get a good kick from the bass, and sublime lower mids. The Valhalla 2 added a very tangible kind of weight to the music, where every single note strummed on a bass guitar you could feel pulse through your head and through your brain. For the HD 700 it gave the ultimate sense of power, which at the time since I was into drum & bass was simply too aggressive for me to want to keep. 
  
 Having owned the HD 700, Vali and Valhalla 2, I kept the Vali to use it with the HD 700. I'd still prefer Vali even though I want a Valhalla 2 again, but every now and then you just want the music to explode, and Valhalla 2 delivered that completely. I'm hoping I'll experience some of that again with the Valhalla 2 and the HD 800, or Mjolnir 2 if I decide to go all out.
  
 Can't say for what DAC to use though, as I only have the Modi 2 Uber. It seems to do the job alright, but I am left unimpressed with it when I hear other DACs. Excited to hear more Bifrost Multibit reviews.


----------



## hodgjy

I'll just throw this out there. Trying to correct headphones via hardware changes is a fruitless adventure. It means you have the wrong headphones. You could try using EQ a little bit, but in the end, you're better served by getting a different set of headphones.


----------



## madwolfa

hodgjy said:


> I'll just throw this out there. Trying to correct headphones via hardware changes is a fruitless adventure. It means you have the wrong headphones. You could try using EQ a little bit, but in the end, you're better served by getting a different set of headphones.


 
  
 After 15 years in this hobby, this is my observation as well.


----------



## jfoxvol

hodgjy said:


> I'll just throw this out there. Trying to correct headphones via hardware changes is a fruitless adventure. It means you have the wrong headphones. You could try using EQ a little bit, but in the end, you're better served by getting a different set of headphones.


 
 Same.  My first foray into headphones was an AKG K702.  I knew absolutely nothing about what pairings were best and my budget was limited.  I heard rave reviews about a certain budget amp (v-can) and another DAC (a certain magical one).  That was a bad pairing.  I got better.


----------



## Rotijon

jason stoddard said:


> The official word on black:
> 
> When we have them, black products will appear in the "finish" category. I don't anticipate we'll have black all the time, nor do I anticipate there will be much black product...so if you see it, and you want black finish, grab it!


 
 I dont suppose you might be thinking of doing a test run of black casings for the Yggy and Rag?


----------



## MWSVette

rotijon said:


> I dont suppose you might be thinking of doing a test run of black casings for the Yggy and Rag?


 
  
 Or maybe a MJ2 in test black...


----------



## Oklahoma

rotijon said:


> I dont suppose you might be thinking of doing a test run of black casings for the Yggy and Rag?


 
 Someone posted a pic of a black Yggy in the Yggy impressions thread at one point. So some do exist.


----------



## chillaxing

oklahoma said:


> Someone posted a pic of a black Yggy in the Yggy impressions thread at one point. So some do exist.


 
  
  
 Might have taken the casing apart and done it himself.


----------



## jfoxvol

chillaxing said:


> Might have taken the casing apart and done it himself.


 
 No they did make some.  After the first batch went out, folks on backorder got notifications from Schiit that they had a couple black ones.  A few folks opted to get them.  So, there weren't many but they were definitely done at the schiit shop.


----------



## jfoxvol

http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/390#post_11753425


----------



## chillaxing

jfoxvol said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/390#post_11753425


 
  
  
 Look at that thing, so dam smexy.
  
 I know schiit wanted there stuff to look elegant, but the black would have been a better stock color.  instead making it this special edition/b-stock color.  The brushed stainless steel should have been the special edition.


----------



## money4me247

chillaxing said:


> Might have taken the casing apart and done it himself.


 
 no, there were a few black chassis ones. i am so jealous! if I could have gotten a black yggy, I totally would have spent that extra $1k over the gungnir hahah.


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> *I actually tried planing a FLAC video on your tube,* and it didn't sound as good vs the modi, I don't know if it was just my IEMs connection or not. But it did sound set "back" more and more "space"


 
  
 YouTube doesn't support lossless audio.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you 





cuiter23 said:


> YouTube doesn't support lossless audio.


----------



## Letmebefrank

My Schiit is finally stacked!
  
 Magni 2
 Modi 2 Uber
 Sys


----------



## Tuco1965

Very nice stack!


----------



## hodgjy

I cross posted this in the Gungnir thread, but felt it belongs here as well. I wrote a Gumby mini review. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-gungnir/reviews/14228


----------



## bigro

letmebefrank said:


> My Schiit is finally stacked!
> 
> Magni 2
> Modi 2 Uber
> Sys


 

 Nice What Speakers do you have back there? I have practically the same setup in my back room where I work (the sys made its way to another purpose as well as the wyrd, soon to replace the wyrd) I also Have those Adam Hall pads for my speakers haha. the Pre outputs on the Magni 2 U was Perfect Timing for me. It use it for Cans but mostly for speakers.


----------



## Letmebefrank

bigro said:


> Nice What Speakers do you have back there? I have practically the same setup in my back room where I work (the sys made its way to another purpose as well as the wyrd, soon to replace the wyrd) I also Have those Adam Hall pads for my speakers haha. the Pre outputs on the Magni 2 U was Perfect Timing for me. It use it for Cans but mostly for speakers.




They are JBL Loft 40s, powered by a SMSL SA-50. Sound pretty good for low cost, better than the Sonys I had before.


----------



## bigro

letmebefrank said:


> They are JBL Loft 40s, powered by a SMSL SA-50. Sound pretty good for low cost, better than the Sonys I had before.


 
  
 How do you like the SMSL Amp? Do they seem to run out of juice when played a little hard? I looked at those and a few similar Class T amps for a while but went a different path but they are still intriguing. Desktop speaker setups are really nice is you spend hours behind a keyboard and don't have to turn the music down. Its a shame there is not more 2 CH desktop options. I spent weeks researching and those smsl amps came up more than once.


----------



## Letmebefrank

bigro said:


> How do you like the SMSL Amp? Do they seem to run out of juice when played a little hard? I looked at those and a few similar Class T amps for a while but went a different path but they are still intriguing. Desktop speaker setups are really nice is you spend hours behind a keyboard and don't have to turn the music down. Its a shame there is not more 2 CH desktop options. I spent weeks researching and those smsl amps came up more than once.


 
 Its pretty darn good. no hissing or anything even at max volume, and max volume is enough to blow me out of my chair. I've never even turned it up to max volume under sound because it is just too loud well before that. Really nice build quality and it never gets warm.


----------



## pwoznic

wahsmoh said:


> It should be a significant upgrade even for speakers. I had a Bifrost Uber and also own a Theta DS Pro Progeny v. A. The Progeny A poops on the Uber in every single way possible. I mean you don't realize how unnatural it sounds in comparison afterwards. *Everything I'm saying should be taken with a grain of salt and also sorted through the hyperbole.*
> 
> Lets just say this. I wanted to be fair to the Bifrost Uber and tested songs I am very familiar with from Carlos Santana. Samba Pa Ti and Oye Como Va. The Theta DS Pro Progeny had a much larger soundstage (depth, width, L/R separation) and a more natural image and the Uber had slightly less fleshed out midrange. Tonally the Uber is pretty spot on, it is just lacking in imaging qualities and natural ease that become very discernible while listening under the microscope of headphones versus speakers.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm very new to this DAC world, so I have been doing lots of searches on all these different components. The Theta sounds awesome but probably insanely pricey. Luckily, I am not too picky... yet. I tend to gravitate towards the various deals out there such as from massdrop. For example, there's a drop now for an Aune X1S (does 384) for under $250 and I'm like hmm... LOL
  
 I wonder how a new bifrost would compare to that Aune, for example. I am loving my Airmotivs though...death metal and xbox never sounded so good!


----------



## slayerming2

Hey guys! Just curious. Currently I use my magni/modi with my sennheiser hd 600 with my laptop. Problem is the 1 meter PYST USB Cable is too short. http://www.amazon.com/PYST-Cable-Meter-A-Male-B-Male/dp/B00IOWPOLG
  
 Does anyone know where I can get a two meter one or even a three? Can't seem to find the right one, and honestly not sure which ones I can use.


----------



## rmullins08

Doesn't have to be the Pyst cable.  Any USB type A to type B will work.


----------



## crazychile

slayerming2 said:


> Hey guys! Just curious. Currently I use my magni/modi with my sennheiser hd 600 with my laptop. Problem is the 1 meter PYST USB Cable is too short. http://www.amazon.com/PYST-Cable-Meter-A-Male-B-Male/dp/B00IOWPOLG
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a two meter one or even a three? Can't seem to find the right one, and honestly not sure which ones I can use.


 
 It looks like Monoprice sells some 6 ft and 10 ft USB cables....


----------



## MWSVette

slayerming2 said:


> Hey guys! Just curious. Currently I use my magni/modi with my sennheiser hd 600 with my laptop. Problem is the 1 meter PYST USB Cable is too short. http://www.amazon.com/PYST-Cable-Meter-A-Male-B-Male/dp/B00IOWPOLG
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a two meter one or even a three? Can't seem to find the right one, and honestly not sure which ones I can use.


 

 The Pyst USB cable is manufactured by Straight Wire.  I have the Straight Wire 3 meter version it goes from my ​computer to my Wyrd then the 1 meter Pyst to my dac.  You can buy the 3 meter Straight Wire USB on Ebay.  It is looks exactly like Pyst so they match. Not that looks are that important.​​


----------



## bigro

I have a Few from this brand.
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AWYC9I?keywords=Pangea%20usb&qid=1444663104&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
  
  
 Yeah Silver conductor is a waste.yada yada. And the Wyrd theoretically should not make a difference  but to some it does.
 You could also Get a Wyrd and put it inline and use two shorter cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## MWSVette

bigro said:


> I have a Few from this brand.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AWYC9I?keywords=Pangea%20usb&qid=1444663104&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Wyrd made my connection to my computer much more stable. I had been having the signal drop out and needing to disconnect and reconnect the USB to reset.  Never happened again after installing the Wyrd.  For SQ YMMV.   But if you are having USB connection issues I can highly recommend the Wyrd.
  
 As for cables I use Straight Wire for all of my interconnects (RCA, USB, optical and coax) and Pangea for all my power cables.  Both companies manufacture high quality cables.


----------



## slayerming2

bigro said:


> I have a Few from this brand.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005AWYC9I?keywords=Pangea%20usb&qid=1444663104&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Okay that one looks good. Guess double the length will be enough. If I don't see a better one, I'll be picking this one up. Thanks!


----------



## Netrum

I returned my Modi on waranty.
Bought it from a store in Norway.
So now i have my fingers crossed that they decide to give me a new unit as replacement for the dead modi.
And thus enabling me to put some money in and get the modi 2 uber instead 
Fingers crossed!


----------



## rovopio

mwsvette said:


> The Wyrd made my connection to my computer much more stable. I had been having the signal drop out and needing to disconnect and reconnect the USB to reset.  Never happened again after installing the Wyrd.  For SQ YMMV.   But if you are having USB connection issues I can highly recommend the Wyrd.
> 
> As for cables I use Straight Wire for all of my interconnects (RCA, USB, optical and coax) and Pangea for all my power cables.  Both companies manufacture high quality cables.


 
  
 Can I ask you for Straight Wire ebay links or stores? They don't show up under Asia eBay, but normally I can still buy them (depends on the eBay seller). Normally this happen when the eBay store doesn't put Worldwide. When they only put select countries, it doesn't show up on Asia eBay (which is determined by delivery address).
  
 EDITED :: Never mind, I can apparently circumvent the eBay restriction by searching through Google. Duh! Sorry


----------



## madwolfa

Got a new toy for my Bimbo! Philips Fidelio X2 - I like them better than LCD-2F so far!!


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Got a new toy for my Bimbo! Philips Fidelio X2 - I like them better than LCD-2F so far!!


 
  
 Really? I happen to value your opinion (because of your amps education last Christmas -you may or may or not remember this-).
  
 That said, I've been looking for a headphone to complement my Grado for the past 2 months. hd650 is $650 and
 LCD-2f is $1500. I only have at most $300 for the headphone, which goes around the territory if Audio-Technica r70x at $300 and  Fidelio x2 at $270.
  
 I don't think r70x is that much of a complement if I were to based it on members comments on Audio-Technica female-vocals focused house sound, but I've heard differing opinions on Fidelio x2. Some called it warm, some dark, some bright, some v-shaped, some call it neutral.
  
 I'm pretty confused with Fidelio x2 impressions I've read. So, that said... can I ask you what on Fidelio x2 that you prefer more than your LCD-2f other than, may I assume, the far better comfort aspect?


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> I'm pretty confused with Fidelio x2 impressions I've read. So, that said... can I ask you what on Fidelio x2 that you prefer more than your LCD-2f other than, may I assume, the far better comfort aspect?


 
  
 I feel X2 is like HD600 with a much better low end (bass) foundation. At the same time, they're not as "wooly" sounding as HD650, I find them more clean and neutral (I've used to own both 600 and 650).
  
 LCD-2F feels little "shouty" compared to X2, especially on higher volume levels. I guess it's because of slightly recessed mids on X2.
 The bass is great, maybe lacks a little texture compared to LCD-2F, but has a really nice weight and impact. Definitely much wider soundstage on X2 and more air around instruments.
  
 I'm going to listen more to X2 and if my first impressions remain, the plan is to retire the LCD-2F and pocket the $$.


----------



## madwolfa

Oh yeah, the wearing comfort is definitely awesome compared to Audeze (though to be honest I never had a problem with it). They're also really-really nicely made headphones.
  
 EDIT: it's getting little crowded here!


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> I feel X2 is like HD600 with a much better low end (bass) foundation. At the same time, they're not as "wooly" sounding as HD650, I find them more clean and neutral (I've used to own both 600 and 650).
> 
> LCD-2F feels little "shouty" compared to X2, especially on higher volume levels. I guess it's because of slightly recessed mids on X2.
> The bass is great, maybe lacks a little texture compared to LCD-2F, but has a really nice weight and impact. Definitely much wider soundstage on X2 and more air around instruments.
> ...


 
  
 I've read more than a couple impressions that the X2 treble is sibilance and shouty, yet I've also read 1 or 2 impression that said X2 is lacking in treble. Which one is more apt in your first impression?
 Fidelio X2 impression is all over the place, the more I read about them the more confused I become. Sorry for probing you.
  
 From your first impression, I reckon the X2 tilts more to the warm side of the spectrum than bright then?


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> From your first impression, I reckon the X2 tilts more to the warm side of the spectrum than bright then?


 
  
 Yes, so I've just decided to order them from Amazon and enjoy the generous return policies if I don't like them. So far I don't want to return them!
  
 I wouldn't call them overly warm, but they have this nice midbass bloom which adds a lot of "meat" to the scene, so to speak.
  
 I prefer slightly darker and more laid back cans and they more or less hit the spot for me. I think as far as treble goes, they're about the same as LCD-2F, I don't find it sibilant or anything so far. 
 Fatigue factor is probably the lowest from all cans I ever had.


----------



## rovopio

madwolfa said:


> Yes, so I've just decided to order them from Amazon and enjoy the generous return policies if I don't like them. So far I don't want to return them!
> 
> I wouldn't call them overly warm, but they have this nice midbass bloom which adds a lot of "meat" to the scene, so to speak.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh wow that sounds great! I was about to pull the trigger on the r70x today but I missed the 5% weekly discount so I'm waiting for next week. I might have to reconsider now. I had my doubts on r70x being a "grado-complement" headphone, I'm just never sure about the X2 even though it sounds like it will be a better complement; Mainly because of varied impressions and the earpad inkbleed issue (but I'm sure that's minor).
  
 Thank you.


----------



## madwolfa

rovopio said:


> Oh wow that sounds great! I was about to pull the trigger on the r70x today but I missed the 5% weekly discount so I'm waiting for next week. I might have to reconsider now. I had my doubts on r70x being a "grado-complement" headphone, I'm just never sure about the X2 even though it sounds like it will be a better complement; Mainly because of varied impressions and the earpad inkbleed issue (but I'm sure that's minor).
> 
> Thank you.


 
  
 I had R70x on my radar too, but I already have a really nice Audio-Technica which I also love - M50x. Tyll's review of X2 won me over.


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> Philips Fidelio X2 - I like them better than LCD-2F so far!!



Wow, that's sayin somethin!


----------



## madwolfa

billheiser said:


> Wow, that's sayin somethin!


 
  
 Yeah, Bill. I've finally found a proper HD600 replacement. Somehow LCD-2 never "ticked" it for me...


----------



## Billheiser

madwolfa said:


> Yeah, Bill. I've finally found a proper HD600 replacement. Somehow LCD-2 never "ticked" it for me...



I appreciated Tyll's review too and it made me keep the X2 in mind...


----------



## bretemm

today i got some advise, 
 I'm going to be getting some studio monitors and use my valhalla2 or bifrost and connect to them. 
 i might get the sys or i might just use the output from the V2, 
  
 does that sound like it would work?


----------



## bigro

bretemm said:


> today i got some advise,
> I'm going to be getting some studio monitors and use my valhalla2 or bifrost and connect to them.
> i might get the sys or i might just use the output from the V2,
> 
> does that sound like it would work?


 

 You can use the Output straight from the valhalla to a set of monitors. A SYS will work as a passive switch and volume control no need for it unless you are planning to use the another source to plug into the valhalla.
 Make sure the Monitors have Single ended inputs


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, well I'm using my valhalla with my new BiFrost DS, so for studio monitors, I can connect to 2 from one set of rca? So one cordoned to each? That is when I get the correct cord 





bigro said:


> You can use the Output straight from the valhalla to a set of monitors. A SYS will work as a passive switch and volume control no need for it unless you are planning to use the another source to plug into the valhalla.
> Make sure the Monitors have Single ended inputs


----------



## money4me247

the X2 is quite solid at its price point.
  
@rovopio, if you have no issues with silibance or fatigue with Grado headphones, you likely will not have issues with the majority of other headphones on the market. Grados are typically more treble-focused and have some unique variation in their treble region compared to almost all other headphones on the market. However, if you are very accustomed to the Grado house sound, you may find many other options lacking in "vividness" and "energy" relative to your Grados. I would say that from a measurement perspective, Grados typically measure quite poorly if looking for a more linear-measuring pair of headphones. that is not as important as personal enjoyment of a sound signature, but should be able to get better overall frequency response balance with something like the X2. Whether that is a change in sound signature that you are looking, it is hard to say until you try them!
  
 good luck with your search & upgrades  hope you find something you like & look forward to hearing your thoughts on whatever you end up deciding.


----------



## bigro

bretemm said:


> Thank you, well I'm using my valhalla with my new BiFrost DS, so for studio monitors, I can connect to 2 from one set of rca? So one cordoned to each? That is when I get the correct cord


 
  
 Are these powered Monitors with the amplifier built in? Is so and provided they have rca inputs. you need an rca cable that will pull apart or come in two sections.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OJM61GW?keywords=blue%20jeans%20cable%20rca&qid=1444700654&ref_=sr_1_7&sr=8-7
  
 I would advise you to do some research on speaker placement, height and angle as well as the best way to achieve the proper imaging. Using monitors are great if done right.you cant just slam them in a book shelf or on a table and expect optimal sound. front ports vs rear ports make a difference in where you can put them as well as surface resonance of what they are placed on.If you have a Guitar center, sam ash or the like in your area go play. they ussually are more than willing to let you audition them. Mackie, tannoy, yamaha, jbl etc all have a sound uniquely there own. if you ask nice they may even let you move them to get a better sense of imaging  because very rarely do they have them setup right.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 
I'm planning on possibly ultimatly getting the Schiit SYS to use them with. 
Someone I've been talking to has said that studio monitors are better to use because there flat and don't color or alter sound, 
So I'm going to have a 2.0 setup with them with my Schiit 





bigro said:


> Are these powered Monitors with the amplifier built in? Is so and provided they have rca inputs. you need an rca cable that will pull apart or come in two sections.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OJM61GW?keywords=blue%20jeans%20cable%20rca&qid=1444700654&ref_=sr_1_7&sr=8-7
> 
> I would advise you to do some research on speaker placement, height and angle as well as the best way to achieve the proper imaging. Using monitors are great if done right.you cant just slam them in a book shelf or on a table and expect optimal sound. front ports vs rear ports make a difference in where you can put them as well as surface resonance of what they are placed on.If you have a Guitar center, sam ash or the like in your area go play. they ussually are more than willing to let you audition them. Mackie, tannoy, yamaha, jbl etc all have a sound uniquely there own. if you ask nice they may even let you move them to get a better sense of imaging  because very rarely do they have them setup right.


----------



## rovopio

money4me247 said:


> the X2 is quite solid at its price point.
> 
> @rovopio, if you have no issues with silibance or fatigue with Grado headphones, you likely will not have issues with the majority of other headphones on the market. Grados are typically more treble-focused and have some unique variation in their treble region compared to almost all other headphones on the market. However, if you are very accustomed to the Grado house sound, you may find many other options lacking in "vividness" and "energy" relative to your Grados. I would say that from a measurement perspective, Grados typically measure quite poorly if looking for a more linear-measuring pair of headphones. that is not as important as personal enjoyment of a sound signature, but should be able to get better overall frequency response balance with something like the X2. Whether that is a change in sound signature that you are looking, it is hard to say until you try them!
> 
> good luck with your search & upgrades  hope you find something you like & look forward to hearing your thoughts on whatever you end up deciding.


 
  
 Thank you!
  
 Did you managed to listen to the couple Japanese songs I showed you? The songs are some of my test-tracks for headphones I can audition. Since the Grado I currently own is said to be the _brightest_ of the bunch, the 325e, I'd like to find something that can complements them in an opposite way. That's pretty much what's in my mind. Though in all honesty, having owned the 60e, 80e, and rs2e, as well, though the 60e is more toned down than the 325e, the other three I feel is more shouty to my ear. Maybe not as _bright _as the 325e, but the 325e manage to be loud but not shouty at the same time (Well as smooth as a Grado can be).
  
 Of course the gh-1 that you listened to, is supposedly (from others' impression) be smoother than 325e.


----------



## DavidGA

Today I am a Schiit owner for the first time. (Which my autocorrect insists on changing to "Schist".)
  
 I received my Bifrost and Valhalla 2, which I am using to drive a pair of HD800s that I got yesterday. So I've really dived in the deep end.
  
 The Bifrost is connected to a Raspberry Pi running Volumio for a self-contained audio system.
  
 So far, everything sounds pretty great. I read I have to wait for the tubes to "burn in" for a while before making any judgements.
  
 I wasn't sure whether to go with the Valhalla or the Asgard, but so far the Valhalla seem fine - although it does get very hot, the glowing tubes are really cool.
  
 So, hi!
  
 Edit: Here's a picture of my setup: https://i.imgur.com/g9VtpxG.jpg


----------



## yding202

I just received my Lyr 2 today, and I'm using them to drive my Oppo PM-3 right now.  I'm running into a little bit of an issue in that even with nothing plugged into the input at all, I still hear noise coming from the amp.  It's set to low gain, and any volume greater than 9 o clock will cause there to be a very noticeable fuzzy noise.  It's not so noticeable while music is playing, but definitely there during the quiet sections.  This is a little upsetting; I almost would rather just plug my headphones directly into my computer instead (no noise)!
  
 Has anyone else experienced this?  Is it just because the PM-3's are super sensitive? The Lyr 2 website says that it should be just fine with any headphones, though. Are my tubes bad (I got my Lyr 2 from another member)?


----------



## bigro

davidga said:


> Today I am a Schiit owner for the first time. (Which my autocorrect insists on changing to "Schist".)
> 
> I received my Bifrost and Valhalla 2, which I am using to drive a pair of HD800s that I got yesterday. So I've really dived in the deep end.
> 
> ...


 

 Welcome. I am Running a Bifrost MB and a Valhalla 2. I thoroughly enjoy it. To my ears at least giving the tubes some good "burn in" time helps. Also You need to make sure they are good and warm before you do any in depth listening.The sounds changes when they are cold.
 Here some threads about Valhalla tube Rolling, When you do decide to but other tubes other than making sure thye are the right type make sure you get matched pairs.
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/619910/schiit-valhalla-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## money4me247

yding202 said:


> I just received my Lyr 2 today, and I'm using them to drive my Oppo PM-3 right now.  I'm running into a little bit of an issue in that even with nothing plugged into the input at all, I still hear noise coming from the amp.  It's set to low gain, and any volume greater than 9 o clock will cause there to be a very noticeable fuzzy noise.  It's not so noticeable while music is playing, but definitely there during the quiet sections.  This is a little upsetting; I almost would rather just plug my headphones directly into my computer instead (no noise)!
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this?  Is it just because the PM-3's are super sensitive? The Lyr 2 website says that it should be just fine with any headphones, though. Are my tubes bad (I got my Lyr 2 from another member)?


 
@yding202, is the noise on one channel or both channels?
  
*If one channel:* 
 1) check that your tubes are seated tightly in place and the cable connections (PC>dac>amp>headphone) are all securely in place
 2) Swap tube positions 
 3) Does the noise switch channels?
  
*If both channels:*
 1) Try plugging your Lyr 2 into a different wall outlet. Or if connected to a surge protector, unconnect everything else to see if the noise disappears. May be a ground loop issue
  
 If neither solution helps, contact Schiit customer support: info@schiit.com. Tell them the troubleshooting things you have already tried.
  
 On low gain on the Lyr 2 (IIRC), you shouldn't hear the noise floor until you are at the 2-3 o'clock position. It's about the same for the M2. On high gain, noise floor can be hear at the 12-1 o'clock position I believe.


----------



## bigro

yding202 said:


> I just received my Lyr 2 today, and I'm using them to drive my Oppo PM-3 right now.  I'm running into a little bit of an issue in that even with nothing plugged into the input at all, I still hear noise coming from the amp.  It's set to low gain, and any volume greater than 9 o clock will cause there to be a very noticeable fuzzy noise.  It's not so noticeable while music is playing, but definitely there during the quiet sections.  This is a little upsetting; I almost would rather just plug my headphones directly into my computer instead (no noise)!
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this?  Is it just because the PM-3's are super sensitive? The Lyr 2 website says that it should be just fine with any headphones, though. Are my tubes bad (I got my Lyr 2 from another member)?


 
  
  
 May be a bad tube but That Sounds like it may be dirty power. If there is something on that same circuit (fridge,dryer, etc)  it can cause weird humming and buzzing on the whole circuit. Have you had other amps in the past? If so did you hear any of this at all? You can Try a different outlet on a different circuit if you don't know if its on a different circuit just move to two or three rooms on different sides of the house. if you are using a surge protector by pass that and go straight in the wall to see if you still have the noise. Dirty power can make great amps hard to listen to,. I had a similar problem (not with lyr but i have dealt with dirty power before) I ended up buying a very large power conditioner which I have everything in the chain plugged into.  I used to have a weird noise from my tv that went away as well.
  
 If you still have issues send an email to schiit from the form on the website. They are quick with responses very helpful.


----------



## oAmadeuso

If it helps on my Lry 2, i've cranked it up to max (no music)  with 3 sets of tubes and Lisst cans all had no noise at all.
  
 This is plugged into a extensions with a PC, 2 monitors and a USB power charger.


----------



## bretemm

How's tbe Bifrost MB? Did you upgrade it to MB? I also have the V2 





bigro said:


> Welcome. I am Running a Bifrost MB and a Valhalla 2. I thoroughly enjoy it. To my ears at least giving the tubes some good "burn in" time helps. Also You need to make sure they are good and warm before you do any in depth listening.The sounds changes when they are cold.
> Here some threads about Valhalla tube Rolling, When you do decide to but other tubes other than making sure thye are the right type make sure you get matched pairs.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bigro

bretemm said:


> How's tbe Bifrost MB? Did you upgrade it to MB? I also have the V2


 
 No upgrade. I bought it as an MB. I have already posted my initial thoughts.
  
 The MB has been out less that two weeks,  Most people have not even gotten theirs yet and the people who have the MB have either posted their impressions or will in due time. they have may not have had the time to really enjoy it themselves. Work , Kids, sleep, the bar. All of that gets in the way. It seems you are new to the hobby I would hate for you to get a bad taste in your mouth but if you want to know what people impressions of the MB are read the MB thread. Questions are perfectly fine with in reason but I have seen many people ask you and I have even suggested it to you as well to slow down, and just listen to the music.
  


baldr said:


> ...There's an old joke about a young bull and an old bull looking down at a herd of cows from the top of the hill. The young bull says, “Let's run down the hill and do a cow”. The old bull says, “Let's walk down the hill and do them all”...


 

 You are in the presence of people with the mentality of the Old Bull it would behoove you to listen. If you don't understand that you should just Buy a Multibit. Schiit offers 2 Day shipping and on Friday you will have the answer to all of your questions regarding the MB


----------



## bigro

Money, It seems we were thinking along the same lines at the same time. I would say Great Minds thing alike but I don't want to insult you.


----------



## yding202

money4me247 said:


> @yding202, is the noise on one channel or both channels?
> 
> *If one channel:*
> 1) check that your tubes are seated tightly in place and the cable connections (PC>dac>amp>headphone) are all securely in place
> ...


 
  
 Ah yes, I didn't notice it before, but it was only in the right channel.  After swapping the tubes, it is now in the left channel.
  
 I've tried a few different rooms/power sockets in my apartment, and they all exhibit the same noise.  I guess I'll have to order some new tubes, then...


----------



## bigro

yding202 said:


> Ah yes, I didn't notice it before, but it was only in the right channel.  After swapping the tubes, it is now in the left channel.
> 
> I've tried a few different rooms/power sockets in my apartment, and they all exhibit the same noise.  I guess I'll have to order some new tubes, then...


 

 Sounds like you may have it almost sorted out. Before you order new tubes.If you ordered the lyr directly from schiit and the lyr is only a few days old. Send the an email  and them about the problem and the tests you did and what you found. the tech may ask you to do a few more tests for their sanity and they may help with the tube situation sorted out. In my experience they will do everything in their power to make it right.


----------



## money4me247

yding202 said:


> Ah yes, I didn't notice it before, but it was only in the right channel.  After swapping the tubes, it is now in the left channel.
> 
> I've tried a few different rooms/power sockets in my apartment, and they all exhibit the same noise.  I guess I'll have to order some new tubes, then...


 
@yding202, if you purchased the item new from Schiit, just contact them with your troubleshooting results. they should ship you a replacement if it was defective upon arrival.
  
 cheers!


----------



## money4me247

bigro said:


> Money, It seems we were thinking along the same lines at the same time. I would say Great Minds thing alike but I don't want to insult you.


 
 hahah!! we do think the same & post around the same time too =P
  
 if schiit ever needs more tech support help lol


----------



## bigro

money4me247 said:


> hahah!! we do think the same & post around the same time too =P
> 
> if schiit ever needs more tech support help lol


 

 They would fire me. I would never be able to get any work done, I would be do distracted by all the schiit they have and would be constantly caught trying to see what new things they were working on. A kid in a candy store would think I was the one acting ridiculous.


----------



## bccass

When you order, does your tracking info get emailed to you, or show up on the order info page?  I'm already jonesing, and my order hasn't even been in 24 hours.


----------



## Tuco1965

bccass said:


> When you order, does your tracking info get emailed to you, or show up on the order info page?  I'm already jonesing, and my order hasn't even been in 24 hours.




Both


----------



## madwolfa

bccass said:


> When you order, does your tracking info get emailed to you, or show up on the order info page?  I'm already jonesing, and my order hasn't even been in 24 hours.


 
  
 They usually send over e-mail.


----------



## bccass

Thanks guys!  I'm waiting on that email.  Every time my phone vibrates, I unlock it.  First time buying anything audio related online, this is much more exciting than car parts.


----------



## manatworks

Just put an order for gumby, this is exciting wait!


----------



## MattTCG

manatworks said:


> Just put an order for gumby, this is exciting wait!


 
 Congrats!! GUMBY has turned out to be one of the best purchases I've made in the past few years in this hobby.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> Congrats!! GUMBY has turned out to be one of the best purchases I've made in the past few years in this hobby.



That is great to here, glad you like your GMB, may it always put a smile on your face.


----------



## Currawong

Spoiler: Off-topic reminder about replying to off-topic or inappropriate posts.



*Please DON'T reply If someone makes an off-topic, rude or otherwise inappropriate comment, or a post appears to be trolling or spam.* ... *If something is inappropriate or rude, what is the point of giving it more attention by replying to it and/or quoting it?!?* _If nobody replies to or comments on a trolling or abusive post 100% of the time the person goes away!_


 http://head-fi.org/a/posting-guidelines


----------



## manatworks

matttcg said:


> Congrats!! GUMBY has turned out to be one of the best purchases I've made in the past few years in this hobby.



The wait us killing me, get to a/b demo between yggy and gumby, i kinda think thst gumby will suite my music genre more.
Yggy is super awesome but i didnt listen to that many audiophile track -_-'


----------



## hodgjy

manatworks said:


> The wait us killing me, get to a/b demo between yggy and gumby, i kinda think thst gumby will suite my music genre more.
> Yggy is super awesome but i didnt listen to that many audiophile track -_-'




That shouldn't matter. Better gear makes lesser tracks sound better. My 256k iTunes tracks sound very good through my Gumby.


----------



## jfoxvol

My Yggy makes red book CDs sound like nothing else I've heard.


----------



## hodgjy

jfoxvol said:


> My Yggy makes red book CDs sound like nothing else I've heard.


 
 I'm amazed at how much information is on those 16/44.1 tracks.


----------



## DavidGA

hodgjy said:


> I'm amazed at how much information is on those 16/44.1 tracks.


 

 This is a good explanation as to why 16/44.1 is really all you need:
 https://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html


----------



## MattTCG

For giggles (not really) I went to the Schiit site and pulled up my account this morning. I added up all the purchases I've ever made. Nearly Schiit my pants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The grand total NOT counting the shipping cost is $4210. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






  
 Can anybody beat this embarrassing figure? Maybe Reddog...maybe.


----------



## jfoxvol

Yes but I'm too embarrassed to list it. Haha.


----------



## reddog

matttcg said:


> For giggles (not really) I went to the Schiit site and pulled up my account this morning. I added up all the purchases I've ever made. Nearly Schiit my pants. :eek:  The grand total NOT counting the shipping cost is $4210. :eek: :blink:
> 
> Can anybody beat this embarrassing figure? Maybe Reddog...maybe.



I really need help, I feed my Audiophile monkey a very rich diet of Schiit totaling $6399. Do they have Audiophile addiction support groups? And that figure does not count cables or my Cavalli spontaneous purchases. I have been a bad dog:eek:


----------



## jfoxvol

Ok ok fine. Mine tops 8k. Some gear I don't have still but most schiit is still here.


----------



## MattTCG

reddog said:


> I really need help, I feed my Audiophile monkey a very rich diet of Schiit totaling $6399. Do they have Audiophile addiction support groups? And that figure does not count cables or my Cavalli spontaneous purchases. I have been a bad dog:eek:


 
  
 You and I can start the group. I didn't even include the Schiit amps that I bought used.


----------



## madwolfa

- Hello... my name is $username and I'm a Schiithead..
 - Hi, $username!


----------



## jfoxvol

madwolfa said:


> - Hello... my name is $username and I'm a Schiithead..
> - Hi, $username!




To quote the Joker...Where does he get those wonderful toys?


----------



## jfoxvol

hodgjy said:


> I'm amazed at how much information is on those 16/44.1 tracks.





Agreed. It breathed new life into music I've owned for so many years. Thanks burrito filter!


----------



## MWSVette

matttcg said:


> For giggles (not really) I went to the Schiit site and pulled up my account this morning. I added up all the purchases I've ever made. Nearly Schiit my pants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


reddog said:


> I really need help, I feed my Audiophile monkey a very rich diet of Schiit totaling $6399. Do they have Audiophile addiction support groups? And that figure does not count cables or my Cavalli spontaneous purchases. I have been a bad dog:eek:


 
  
  


jfoxvol said:


> Ok ok fine. Mine tops 8k. Some gear I don't have still but most schiit is still here.


 
  
  


madwolfa said:


> - Hello... my name is $username and I'm a Schiithead..
> - Hi, $username!


 
  
  I​ must agree.  This has turned out to be a far more expensive "hobby" than I had originally anticipated.  However I have found great enjoyment in music once again...


----------



## bretemm

I have a Schiit Product request (I hope Jason sees this post if your on) 

So the RAGNAROK has speaker outputs, 
Well, 
Could Schiit make a amp designated for speakers (wired) and possibly then be able to connect Schiit Speaker Amps together, 
That could rang from a 2.1 to 7.1 or 7.2 (depending on how many Schiit speaker amps would want to get to build the setup) 
Then you could use the DACs as the input sourse. 

But then tho there a 2.1? Channels? 

Well if Schiit did a "modular, unit Schiit for speakers" 

That would be great, 

I mean this as a customer request! Thanks!


----------



## Billheiser

Sure, they can make any random thing you want  "That would be great"


----------



## jeremy205100

I want a multibit Fulla. And I don't want it to cost more than the original. And USB 3.0 please. You can use the additional power from the USB port to make it more powerful. Oh, and can it be smaller? I don't want it to clutter my desk. 
  
 Hell, while we are at it can we get an optical and coaxial input in it too, along with some speaker outputs?


----------



## theblueprint

jeremy205100 said:


> I want a multibit Fulla. And I don't want it to cost more than the original. And USB 3.0 please. You can use the additional power from the USB port to make it more powerful. Oh, and can it be smaller? I don't want it to clutter my desk.
> 
> 
> Hell, while we are at it can we get an optical and coaxial input in it too, along with some speaker outputs?




Don't forget the balanced XLR outputs for headphones.


----------



## sling5s

For those who have had or have both the LYR 2 and VAlHALLA 2:
  
 I no longer have the LCD-2F so I no longer need the Lyr 2.  Rather, I want to focus on my Grado GH1.
 Which is more an ideal match (for Grado GH1), the LYR 2 or VAlHALLA 2?


----------



## Astral Abyss

sling5s said:


> For those who have had or have both the LYR 2 and VAlHALLA 2:
> 
> I no longer have the LCD-2F so I no longer need the Lyr 2.  Rather, I want to focus on my Grado GH1.
> Which is more an ideal match (for Grado GH1), the LYR 2 or VAlHALLA 2?




The Grado GH1 is a 32ohm headphone. Not an optimal choice for Valhalla. Much better pairing, damn near perfect really, with Lyr.


----------



## sling5s

I've heard the Valhalla 2 is smoother and relaxed than Lyr 2 (it being more forward and aggressive) and works well with Grados.


----------



## zabzaf

sling5s said:


> I've heard the Valhalla 2 is smoother and relaxed than Lyr 2 (it being more forward and aggressive) and works well with Grados.




I owned Valhalla 2 for a while and it was a nice pairing with my high impedence cans. I have some Grado sr-80e and they sounded nice in low gain. 

My AKG 702s sounded nice on it as well.


----------



## alancronin

I have a Valhalla 2 connected to a Modi 2 Uber and they work fantastic with Grados. The Grados I have connected to it are sr80e, sr325e and rs2e. In general the Valhalla 2 is an excellent amplifier. I have had no issues with it.


----------



## Currawong

It had it coming: Valhalla II review.


----------



## bretemm

So for my valhalla2/Bifrost I ordered the Klipsch x11i, a nice step up from my 3g klipsch (I think) 
I'll now have a better sound range and update on the quality I hear.


----------



## cuiter23

> Originally Posted by bretemm /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have a Schiit Product request (I hope Jason sees this post if your on)
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're going to make a serious suggestion I recommend:
  
 1. Contacting Schiit directly.
 2. Speaking (or more precisely typing) in a manner that is understandable.


----------



## Billheiser

cuiter23 said:


> If you're going to make a serious suggestion I recommend:
> 
> 1. Contacting Schiit directly.
> 2. Speaking (or more precisely typing) in a manner that is understandable.



Agreed. Or, he could do #2 and skip #1.


----------



## bretemm

Well, I hope Jason sees my post about it. 





billheiser said:


> Agreed. Or, he could do #2 and skip #1.


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> Well, I hope Jason sees my post about it.



You posted the same question on at least one other different thread. Don't do that. Look in the Rules and Terms of Use for head-fi:

"Do not cross-post. (Cross-posting is posting the same post to more than one thread, or the same thread to more than one forum.)"


----------



## bretemm

Ok! Thank you 





billheiser said:


> You posted the same question on at least one other different thread. Don't do that. Look in the Rules and Terms of Use for head-fi:
> 
> "Do not cross-post. (Cross-posting is posting the same post to more than one thread, or the same thread to more than one forum.)"


----------



## bccass

I just got my Luxa2 headphone stand.  I hope it's close enough in finish to match the lyr.  I wonder if there would be a market for a Schiit stand?


----------



## MWSVette

bccass said:


> I just got my Luxa2 headphone stand.  I hope it's close enough in finish to match the lyr.  I wonder if there would be a market for a Schiit stand?


 

 I​ would like to see them make Schiit headphone stands made out of the same metal as the A2,V2 or Lyr 2.  Have there metal fabricators shape the metal like the omega stands. 
  
 I would buy several...


----------



## bccass

I would think the simple two bend with a pad for the band would be cheaper to produce than a complex changing radius.  From a consistency standpoint, it would likely be better, too.


----------



## bretemm

My x11i came in today, using them with the bifrostDS/Valhalla2 is allot better now vs my klipsch s3, I hear more bass and highs as well as again bass.


----------



## rovopio

bretemm said:


> My x11i came in today, using them with the bifrostDS/Valhalla2 is allot better now vs my klipsch s3, I hear more bass and highs as well as again bass.


 
  
 Congratulations bretemm. I'm sorry to hear about your magnet / no-headphone issue.That sounds tough. I can't say I understand how it feels, but I can truly sympathize.

 Hope you are happy with your x11i, and if not, well... there's an ocean of IEMs for you to try next...


----------



## bretemm

rovopio said:


> Congratulations bretemm. I'm sorry to hear about your magnet / no-headphone issue.That sounds tough. I can't say I understand how it feels, but I can truly sympathize.
> 
> Hope you are happy with your x11i, and if not, well... there's an ocean of IEMs for you to try next...


 

 thanks! its ok! 
 yea, with the ocean of IEMs, what would you recommend next in the future? 
  
 with the x11i, i think ill be keeping them at home, then using my $30 klipsch on the road


----------



## rovopio

bretemm said:


> thanks! its ok!
> yea, with the ocean of IEMs, what would you recommend next in the future?
> 
> with the x11i, i think ill be keeping them at home, then using my $30 klipsch on the road


 
  
 I don't use any IEM most of the time so I don't know... Sorry I can't help.


----------



## bretemm

Ok thank you, I used them more today for acouple hours, I need to break them in still, between my Schiit and Ipod, I notice more details using Schiit and im hearing more details and there's less of high pitchy notes then before. 





rovopio said:


> I don't use any IEM most of the time so I don't know... Sorry I can't help.


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Ok thank you, I used them more today for acouple hours, I need to break them in still, between my Schiit and Ipod, I notice more details using Schiit and im hearing more details and there's less of high pitchy notes then before.


 
  
 You realize there is no such thing as "burning-in" for balanced armature drivers right?


----------



## bretemm

Really? Well my last Klipsch they sounded better after acouple days, I think they are the 4i 





cuiter23 said:


> You realize there is no such thing as "burning-in" for balanced armature drivers right?


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Really? Well my last Klipsch they sounded better after acouple days, I think they are the 4i


 
  
 The S4 uses a dynamic driver.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you, which driver type is better to use? I used my Bifrost/Valhalla2 more yesturday with the x11i and I found a better tip to use. 





cuiter23 said:


> The S4 uses a dynamic driver.


----------



## ETanner

I expect to pull the trigger on a Valhalla 2 this week. It's pushing my toys budget so I'm holding off on a Schiit DAC for a while. Hopefully it will also give me more time to decide what to purchase. I have an HRT microstreamer that I'd like to use in between my MacMini and the V2. It outputs with 2.25V line output. Here's my question to this forum. Will this setup work for about a month? I know the noise floor will be greater than desired but would it be harmful? Line out impedance is 50 Ohms; headphone jack is .5 Ohm. I was thinking about using the headphone jack with minimal output power/volume. 

All of this will eventually be going into Senn HD600s. Thanks


----------



## mkozlows

etanner said:


> I expect to pull the trigger on a Valhalla 2 this week. It's pushing my toys budget so I'm holding off on a Schiit DAC for a while. Hopefully it will also give me more time to decide what to purchase. I have an HRT microstreamer that I'd like to use in between my MacMini and the V2. It outputs with 2.25V line output. Here's my question to this forum. Will this setup work for about a month?


 
  
 It will work forever, if you want. It has a line-level output, so can work as a straight-up DAC, as you say. There's no harm in putting a DAC from one company into an amp from another.


----------



## ETanner

mkozlows said:


> It will work forever, if you want. It has a line-level output, so can work as a straight-up DAC, as you say. There's no harm in putting a DAC from one company into an amp from another.




That's what I originally thought however better ask for help now than later. Both the Modi 2 Uber or the Bifrost Multibit output at 75Ohms so the HRT at 50 is in the ballpark. I could certainly pick up the Modi 2 now but I'm really wanting to shoot for the Beef Roast as my endgame setup.


----------



## Billheiser

etanner said:


> I expect to pull the trigger on a Valhalla 2 this week. It's pushing my toys budget so I'm holding off on a Schiit DAC for a while. Hopefully it will also give me more time to decide what to purchase. I have an HRT microstreamer that I'd like to use in between my MacMini and the V2. It outputs with 2.25V line output. Here's my question to this forum. Will this setup work for about a month? I know the noise floor will be greater than desired but would it be harmful? Line out impedance is 50 Ohms; headphone jack is .5 Ohm. I was thinking about using the headphone jack with minimal output power/volume.
> 
> All of this will eventually be going into Senn HD600s. Thanks


 

 That will work fine!  It will be best to use the fixed line output from the micro streamer, not the headphone out.  That way, you'll have plenty of power, no inadvertent "double amping" , and the Valhalla2 volume knob (hot!) will be your one volume knob.


----------



## zabzaf

etanner said:


> That's what I originally thought however better ask for help now than later. Both the Modi 2 Uber or the Bifrost Multibit output at 75Ohms so the HRT at 50 is in the ballpark. I could certainly pick up the Modi 2 now but I'm really wanting to shoot for the Beef Roast as my endgame setup.




I promise not to derail this thread...but what is "the Beef Roast" and can I get some Horsey sauce in the bag?


----------



## ETanner

zabzaf said:


> I promise not to derail this thread...but what is "the Beef Roast" and can I get some Horsey sauce in the bag?




Bif-rost, not Bi-frost is my recollection of Norse historical references. Others may correct me.


----------



## Deftone

Yeah but Bi-Frost sounds awesome


----------



## bccass

Just showing off my schiit.  Finally got a decent picture out of the iphone camera, and put it through the instagram potato filter.


----------



## mkozlows

bccass said:


> Just showing off my schiit.  Finally got a decent picture out of the iphone camera, and put it through the instagram potato filter.


 
  
 What stand is that?


----------



## madwolfa

Schiit needs to start making headphone stands from aluminum leftovers... maybe call it The Schtick.


----------



## bccass

mkozlows said:


> What stand is that?


 
  
 Luxa2.  It's cheap on the amazons.
  


madwolfa said:


> Schiit needs to start making headphone stands from aluminum leftovers... maybe call it The Schtick.


 
  
 I said that a couple of pages ago.  Well, I didn't have a creative name.  This one looks good in pictures, but isn't a perfect match.  I'd certainly buy a Schiit one, simply for a perfect match.


----------



## cuiter23

*PSA *- If you guys are looking for a nice matching stand for your Schiit products I recommend the V-Moda Testa Stand.


----------



## Deftone

isnt lyr 2 super overkill for the LCD ?


----------



## oAmadeuso

deftone said:


> isnt lyr 2 super overkill for the LCD ?


 
 Not for me.
  
 For Casual listening I go up to 12 o'clock on the volume (6channel audio a bit higher).
 Can crank it up to 100%, too loud but zero noise or hiss.
  
 Also tubes sound good, so very very good.


----------



## MattTCG

deftone said:


> isnt lyr 2 super overkill for the LCD ?


 
  
 I wouldn't say so. I believe the lyr2 is actually known as one of the better amps and bang for the buck with the lcd line. Most planars love power and the lyr2 has plenty.


----------



## bretemm

So using the new Bifrost Delta Sigma (usb input) I just found a usb a-b cable and a usb extender cable that reaches from my computer to my Bifrost and Valhalla2. BUT, the cords look fine (I just found them in a bag) would old cords be ok to use?


----------



## jfoxvol

bretemm said:


> So using the new Bifrost Delta Sigma (usb input) I just found a usb a-b cable and a usb extender cable that reaches from my computer to my Bifrost and Valhalla2. BUT, the cords look fine (I just found them in a bag) would old cords be ok to use?


 

 You should try to use cables rated for use with usb 2.0 speeds and try to keep length to 6' or less.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, I think it's a 2.0 cable since its a a-b cable? I think the cord is 3ft, but could that still work? With the extension it's about 4-5ft 





jfoxvol said:


> You should try to use cables rated for use with usb 2.0 speeds and try to keep length to 6' or less.


----------



## zabzaf

bretemm said:


> Ok, I think it's a 2.0 cable since its a a-b cable? I think the cord is 3ft, but could that still work? With the extension it's about 4-5ft




Most of your questions are easily answered by visiting www.schitt.com. Also, I would like to ask a personal favor. Please, please look there first. If you don't find the answer you're looking for (unlikely), then hit up the threads.


----------



## jfoxvol

@zabzaf is correct.  This is a forum, not Google.  Please come prepared with valid questions.  I was happy to answer with a clear and simple answer but for the remainder, please see manufacturer site or Google.  Google is your savior.  This behavior is beyond problematic with other users who have already blocked your posts.  I am more patient but please stop spamming this site with unnecessary questions or I'll be the next to report.


----------



## bretemm

What type of questions are allowed? I'm just asking, I don't post allot, I use Schiit and it's great. 
Thank you tho 





jfoxvol said:


> @zabzaf is correct.  This is a forum, not Google.  Please come prepared with valid questions.  I was happy to answer with a clear and simple answer but for the remainder, please see manufacturer site or Google.  Google is your savior.  This behavior is beyond problematic with other users who have already blocked your posts.  I am more patient but please stop spamming this site with unnecessary questions or I'll be the next to report.


----------



## bccass

bretemm said:


> Ok, I think it's a 2.0 cable since its a a-b cable? I think the cord is 3ft, but could that still work? With the extension it's about 4-5ft


 
  
 Not all a to b are usb 2.0.
  


zabzaf said:


> Most of your questions are easily answered by visiting www.schitt.com. Also, I would like to ask a personal favor. Please, please look there first. If you don't find the answer you're looking for (unlikely), then hit up the threads.


 
  
 Also, with something like "will this cable work?" that is literally 1 minute to test... why not just test it yourself?  It's not like trying it will ruin anything, it just won't work right.  And if it doesn't work, you can get a cheap cable from monoprice, or your local walmart, costco, target, kmart, best buy, staples, etc if you want it immediately.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you 





bccass said:


> Not all a to b are usb 2.0.
> 
> 
> Also, with something like "will this cable work?" that is literally 1 minute to test... why not just test it yourself?  It's not like trying it will ruin anything, it just won't work right.  And if it doesn't work, you can get a cheap cable from monoprice, or your local walmart, costco, target, kmart, best buy, staples, etc if you want it immediately.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, yes it worked, I think I'll need a newer one latter because it kinda sounded blury in a way. But the music did seem stronger tho. Thank you 





bccass said:


> Not all a to b are usb 2.0.
> 
> 
> Also, with something like "will this cable work?" that is literally 1 minute to test... why not just test it yourself?  It's not like trying it will ruin anything, it just won't work right.  And if it doesn't work, you can get a cheap cable from monoprice, or your local walmart, costco, target, kmart, best buy, staples, etc if you want it immediately.


----------



## madwolfa

Dude is relentless.


----------



## bretemm

What type of questions are allowed? 
(I have 4 Schiit products) 





madwolfa said:


> Dude is relentless.


----------



## bccass

madwolfa said:


> Dude is relentless.


 
  
 It's pretty telling that I've been on here less than a month, with almost no experience in equipment, and am able to help somebody with almost 700 posts...


----------



## ETanner

etanner said:


> I expect to pull the trigger on a Valhalla 2 this week. It's pushing my toys budget so I'm holding off on a Schiit DAC for a while. Hopefully it will also give me more time to decide what to purchase. I have an HRT microstreamer that I'd like to use in between my MacMini and the V2. It outputs with 2.25V line output. Here's my question to this forum. Will this setup work for about a month? I know the noise floor will be greater than desired but would it be harmful? Line out impedance is 50 Ohms; headphone jack is .5 Ohm. I was thinking about using the headphone jack with minimal output power/volume.
> 
> All of this will eventually be going into Senn HD600s. Thanks




Well trigger has been pulled and I saved a bit with a B-model. I don't think those were available last week but $299 for these units seems incredible. I love the possibility of rolling tubes and the likelihood that it's unnecessary. I'm pleased so many in this forum think the stock tubes are great and well-matched. For the short term I'll be using my HRT microstreamer as planned but Bifrost Multibit is probable. I'll post with impressions on this pair but I expect the V2 to show why portable amp/dacs have their limitations. I'll be ordering tube extensions from the local EBay favorite (name not remembered now) to help with oooh factor and cooling. 

PS: Royals are


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> What type of questions are allowed?
> (I have 4 Schiit products)



100% of relevant and intelligible questions are allowed. So, just filter out your neediest, most neurotic ones, before you post. And read and heed the responses. For instance, when the person advised to keep USB cables to 6' or less, you should NOT reply by asking if 3' is ok.


----------



## theblueprint

bretemm said:


> What type of questions are allowed? *I don't post allot*, I use Schiit and it's great.




Not only do you post a lot, but most of your questions are pointless as several have pointed out.


----------



## bretemm

I thought that was 6" inches", not feet, so I meant 3"ft"





billheiser said:


> 100% of relevant and intelligible questions are allowed. So, just filter out your neediest, most neurotic ones, before you post. And read and heed the responses. For instance, when the person advised to keep USB cables to 6' or less, you should NOT reply by asking if 3' is ok.


----------



## ARCXENOS

Hi, I am wondering if acquiring a Vali will help in my current setup of Fiio X5 / Fiio E18 + HD 600 
  
  
 Some people tell me it will be useless as my E18 can drive the HD600, others told me that it will help out
  
 I am planning to use the vali strictly at home, will it help me get better sound ? The plan is to use it like USB->E18->LineOut->Vali->HD 600
  
 Assuming I already have a USB cable, all I need is a Fiio L16 to connect the E18 to the Vali right ?


----------



## jfoxvol

arcxenos said:


> Hi, I am wondering if acquiring a Vali will help in my current setup of Fiio X5 / Fiio E18 + HD 600
> 
> 
> Some people tell me it will be useless as my E18 can drive the HD600, others told me that it will help out
> ...




The Vali is a fantastic amp and I use it every day with my hd600s. Check the schiit site for reviews. Killer little amp.


----------



## ARCXENOS

jfoxvol said:


> The Vali is a fantastic amp and I use it every day with my hd600s. Check the schiit site for reviews. Killer little amp.


 
  
  
 Gahh, if I do decide to get it, tracking it down locally where I am from is gonna be hellish
  
 But its the cheapest amp with a tube I can try out sooo


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> I thought that was 6" inches", not feet, so I meant 3"ft"


 
 See?  LIke I said, READ and HEED the responses.  The responder was simple and clear, and you read it wrong.  You thought it wrong, too - who the heck would assume that cables are less than 6 inches long?!?  smh


----------



## bretemm

The rca cables Schiit has on their site are 6inches, that's why, sorry 





billheiser said:


> See?  LIke I said, READ and HEED the responses.  The responder was simple and clear, and you read it wrong.  You thought it wrong, too - who the heck would assume that cables are less than 6 inches long?!?  smh


----------



## Billheiser

bretemm said:


> The rca cables Schiit has on their site are 6inches, that's why, sorry


 

 Ah, so you had random associations in your head, about a pair of RCA interconnects, NOT the USB cable you were asking about.  That explains it - not.


----------



## bretemm

Sorry, thought that applied to the usb as well, sorry 





billheiser said:


> Ah, so you had random associations in your head, about a pair of RCA interconnects, NOT the USB cable you were asking about.  That explains it - not.


----------



## jeremy205100

bretemm said:


> So using the new Bifrost Delta Sigma (usb input) I just found a usb a-b cable and a usb extender cable that reaches from my computer to my Bifrost and Valhalla2. BUT, the cords look fine (I just found them in a bag) would old cords be ok to use?


 

 You should really be using a cable like this:
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-16-4-usb-a-to-usb-b-cable-black-gray/4022646.p?id=1218449994838&skuId=4022646
  
 You're just not going to get the best sound quality out of the Schiit with anything less. Don't let anyone tell you that a cheap cable works just as good. You might as well not even plug the Bifrost in if that's what you're going to use.


----------



## theblueprint

jeremy205100 said:


> You should really be using a cable like this:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-16-4-usb-a-to-usb-b-cable-black-gray/4022646.p?id=1218449994838&skuId=4022646
> 
> You're just not going to get the best sound quality out of the Schiit with anything less. Don't let anyone tell you that a cheap cable works just as good. You might as well not even plug the Bifrost in if that's what you're going to use.




If you consider anything less than this, you're definitely not taking this hobby seriously at all.


----------



## yding202

bccass said:


> Just showing off my schiit.  Finally got a decent picture out of the iphone camera, and put it through the instagram potato filter.


 
  
 Are you using some sort of socket saver on your Lyr?  The tubes seem to be sticking out more than normal.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, for now I'm using the random cheep one, but yes I'll be getting a better one, thank you! 





jeremy205100 said:


> You should really be using a cable like this:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-16-4-usb-a-to-usb-b-cable-black-gray/4022646.p?id=1218449994838&skuId=4022646
> 
> You're just not going to get the best sound quality out of the Schiit with anything less. Don't let anyone tell you that a cheap cable works just as good. You might as well not even plug the Bifrost in if that's what you're going to use.


----------



## jeremy205100

bretemm said:


> Thank you, for now I'm using the random cheep one, but yes I'll be getting a better one, thank you!


 

 You're welcome. Just keep in mind that you aren't getting the best sound with that cable.


----------



## Billheiser

Good point.  And if that one seems a little blurry, try  http://www.audiostream.com/content/synergistic-research-galileo-le-usb-cable#cRjEiCLqziwFel3w.97


----------



## Torq

jeremy205100 said:


> You should really be using a cable like this:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-16-4-usb-a-to-usb-b-cable-black-gray/4022646.p?id=1218449994838&skuId=4022646
> 
> You're just not going to get the best sound quality out of the Schiit with anything less. Don't let anyone tell you that a cheap cable works just as good. You might as well not even plug the Bifrost in if that's what you're going to use.


 

 Magnolia/Best Buy's description for this cable is rather fun:
  
_"Easily connect a speaker to your computer with this AudioQuest USB cable that features silver conductors and solid core conductors for reducing signal distortion. The 16.4' length allows optimal placement."_
  
 I can see some poor sod buying a pair of them and then asking "So how do these connect to my 5-way binding posts?"
  
(Yes, I know there are speakers with built-in USB DACs ... regardless of their ... kwalitee ...)


----------



## bretemm

Oh, I just clicked the link, $1500 cable? Haha 





jeremy205100 said:


> You should really be using a cable like this:
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audioquest-16-4-usb-a-to-usb-b-cable-black-gray/4022646.p?id=1218449994838&skuId=4022646
> 
> You're just not going to get the best sound quality out of the Schiit with anything less. Don't let anyone tell you that a cheap cable works just as good. You might as well not even plug the Bifrost in if that's what you're going to use.


----------



## jeremy205100

torq said:


> Magnolia/Best Buy's description for this cable is rather fun:
> 
> _"Easily connect a speaker to your computer with this AudioQuest USB cable that features silver conductors and solid core conductors for reducing signal distortion. The 16.4' length allows optimal placement."_
> 
> ...


 

 It's unfortunate that they've made errors listing such a popular product.


----------



## Torq

jeremy205100 said:


> It's unfortunate that they've made errors listing such a popular product.


 

 Indeed ... tragic.
  
 I should be a bit careful, since my profile lists that I have AudioQuest Colorado as my interconnects.  I find that they score over the Schiit PYST XLRs, that I also I have, in several important ways:
  
 1. They were slightly cheaper*.
 2. They are slightly longer.
 3. They are *very* red (and silver and black).
  
*For reasons that are unlikely to become clear anytime soon - I got several pairs, a mix of the original and the Music Direct Special Edition, for a net price of about $30 a pair.


----------



## jeremy205100

torq said:


> Indeed ... tragic.
> 
> I should be a bit careful, since my profile lists that I have AudioQuest Colorado as my interconnects.  I find that they score over the Schiit PYST XLRs, that I also I have, in several important ways:
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe they're called the COLORado because they're so colorful.


----------



## Torq

jeremy205100 said:


> Maybe they're called the COLORado because they're so colorful.


 

 That must be it!
  
 I missed that, on account of being British ... I don't see "Color" unless it's "Colour".
  
 And that, let's face it, is just cheating at Scrabble.


----------



## Torq

matttcg said:


> I wouldn't say so. I believe the lyr2 is actually known as one of the better amps and bang for the buck with the lcd line. Most planars love power and the lyr2 has plenty.


 

 Both my HE-500s and LCD-2.2c just sound completely luscious and seductive with the original Lyr (not heard the Lyr 2).
  
 Neutral?  No.  Addictive?  Absolutely!
  
 I was never anything less than captivated with those two pairings; the degree of musicality and involvement was, and is, just staggering.


----------



## bccass

yding202 said:


> Are you using some sort of socket saver on your Lyr?  The tubes seem to be sticking out more than normal.


 
  
 Yeah, just cheap ones from Amazon.  I don't notice any added noise with them, they seem to be just fine for me.


----------



## Deftone

bretemm said:


> Oh, I just clicked the link, $1500 cable? Haha


 
 its not a laughing matter, this a top of the line usb cable, only for people that want to listen to real music and not static fuzz.
  
 some people almost returned their dac because because with a monoprice usb cable it output white noise, but with a $1500 usb cable it puts the live performance in your room.
  
 iv heard people say its the best money they have ever spent and they wished they had held off their marriage so they could have a few more as spares. but hey we live and learn.


----------



## bretemm

Really? Well, right now Insted of getting that cable, what's allot cheaper cable I can get? Is a $20 usb a-b cable good? I think it's by Sony. 





deftone said:


> its not a laughing matter, this a top of the line usb cable, only for people that want to listen to real music and not static fuzz.
> 
> some people almost returned their dac because because with a monoprice usb cable it output white noise, but with a $1500 usb cable it puts the live performance in your room.
> 
> iv heard people say its the best money they have ever spent and they wished they had held off their marrige so they could have a few more as spares. but hey we live and learn.


----------



## Deftone

$20? are you kidding me. they are only good for transfering pictures.
  
 Light speed 10G as a minimum!


----------



## bretemm

Ok! Haha, well right now I'll have to go for a cord a little cheaper, then I'll get a good one 





deftone said:


> $20? are you kidding me. they are only good for transfering pictures.
> 
> Light speed 10G as a minimum!


----------



## RCBinTN

deftone said:


> its not a laughing matter, this a top of the line usb cable, only for people that want to listen to real music and not static fuzz.
> 
> some people almost returned their dac because because with a monoprice usb cable it output white noise, but with a $1500 usb cable it puts the live performance in your room.
> 
> iv heard people say its the best money they have ever spent and they wished they had held off their marriage so they could have a few more as spares. but hey we live and learn.


 
  
 C'mon folks.  Personally I do not see this as useful advice...I'm not sure where this thread is headed but I for one don't like it.  People come here to get helpful and constructive advice from experienced head-fiers.  Like most of you are.  Please help the new folks instead of directing them to $1500 USB cables.
  
 Thank you.
 RCBinTN


----------



## reddog

```

```



rcbintn said:


> C'mon folks.  Personally I do not see this as useful advice...I'm not sure where this thread is headed but I for one don't like it.  People come here to get helpful and constructive advice from experienced head-fiers.  Like most of you are.  Please help the new folks instead of directing them to $1500 USB cables.
> 
> Thank you.
> RCBinTN



I agree 100% Recommending some one spend $1500 on a USB cable is not cool , especially if the person is wet behind the ears muggle. Such advice might be sadisticly fun but, in the long run does nothing to promote this amazing hobby.


----------



## Billheiser

Many people over many threads have provided helpful and constructive advice to him, and are finally running out of patience with his inability to use or understand the advice.


----------



## bretemm

What? I'm listening to the advise and answers given, I'm just asking questions, that's all, that's what this site is for, so thank you. 





billheiser said:


> Many people over many threads have provided helpful and constructive advice to him, and are finally running out of patience with his inability to use or understand the advice.


----------



## bccass

bretemm said:


> What? I'm listening to the advise and answers given, I'm just asking questions, that's all, that's what this site is for, so thank you.


 
 This might be just me, but I always view forums like this as for the community, a place for collective information gathering and cataloging.  Yahoo answers is more for asking questions randomly.
  
 But if you read Schiit's site, they even mention monoprice as a place to buy cables if you're too cheap to buy their pyst cables.


----------



## Evil_Spork

Just to clear up any possible confusion: 
  
 A USB cable transfers a *digital *signal. Digital signals (more or less) either make it to the receiving device, or they don't. Unlike analog cables, in most normal situations shielding or fancy connectors won't make a bit of difference.
 Your 25 cent yard sale USB cable will give the exact same sound quality as a $1500 usb cable.
  
 The only caveat to this is if you use a cable that is too long. A cheap cable that is too long with a weak source may not work well. I experienced this with my Modi 2 Uber. I plugged a 15-20 foot usb cable into a 10 cent USB OTG adapter into my phone and connected that to the Modi. It worked, but the audio would drop out now and then. It felt like the signal just wasn't making it. I swapped out the super long table for a 6 footer and it's perfect. In fact the random piece of crap 10 year old USB cable I pulled out of a tangled box in the garage sounds brilliant. Because it's digital.
  
 As for RCA cables.. Maybe spend some money on them. The one Schiit offer are probably just about as good as anything on something like a Bifrost or Vali or something similar. I strongly doubt many people could hear much of a difference.
  
 Also somewhat unrelated: please try harder to proof read your posts. Many of them are nearly impossible to understand and are still full of spelling and grammar errors. For example: "Allot" does not mean what you think it means.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, 
I might get the Schiit wyrd latter on but I think a cable that's 3-4ft long should hold the audio quality. 
Thank you. 





evil_spork said:


> Just to clear up any possible confusion:
> 
> A USB cable transfers a *digital* signal. Digital signals (more or less) either make it to the receiving device, or they don't. Unlike analog cables, in most normal situations shielding or fancy connectors won't make a bit of difference.
> Your 25 cent yard sale USB cable will give the exact same sound quality as a $1500 usb cable.
> ...


----------



## jeremy205100

Just so everyone else knows: I am well aware that a $3 Monoprice USB cable is more than sufficient. In fact, those are what I use. Monoprice cables are amazing. What is not amazing, or even acceptable, is having someone post unnecessary post after unnecessary post without even proofreading them. As many have noted, he continues to ignore any criticism levied against him and ask stupid questions that could be solved easily with google. What's more, once someone is nice enough to answer his questions, he ignores it and asks it again. 
  
 Since he has been warned and asked to stop by so many others, I do not understand why he is still here. But that's not my job to decide. 
  
 Keep in mind that on Schiit's site they recommend a USB 2.0 rated cable (which answered his question about whether or not his old ones were ok) and they also specify a maximum 6' length. We should not have to search Schiit's site for him.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, and yes, I do listen to the answers. Thank you. 





jeremy205100 said:


> Just so everyone else knows: I am well aware that a $3 Monoprice USB cable is more than sufficient. In fact, those are what I use. Monoprice cables are amazing. What is not amazing, or even acceptable, is having someone post unnecessary post after unnecessary post without even proofreading them. As many have noted, he continues to ignore any criticism levied against him and ask stupid questions that could be solved easily with google. What's more, once someone is nice enough to answer his questions, he ignores it and asks it again.
> 
> Since he has been warned and asked to stop by so many others, I do not understand why he is still here. But that's not my job to decide.
> 
> Keep in mind that on Schiit's site they recommend a USB 2.0 rated cable (which answered his question about whether or not his old ones were ok) and they also specify a maximum 6' length. We should not have to search Schiit's site for him.


----------



## bretemm

Since having the Bifrost Delta Sigma, I've noticed more quality and better stable sound. I'm going to be importing more CDs now since i now have the USB option. "Dark Side of the Moon" sounded stronger and I heard more details in the back. 
Thank you all for helping with the information of what sounds great or better with how I have everything setup. 
Thank you.


----------



## Currawong

evil_spork said:


> Just to clear up any possible confusion:
> 
> A USB cable transfers a *digital *signal. Digital signals (more or less) either make it to the receiving device, or they don't. Unlike analog cables, in most normal situations shielding or fancy connectors won't make a bit of difference.
> Your 25 cent yard sale USB cable will give the exact same sound quality as a $1500 usb cable.


 
  
 Because the problem isn't at the digital level, but at an electrical level. Remember the Wyrd? Before it was released I was discussing the prototype of it with Jason Stoddard and he told me of how they didn't believe it would affect the sound at all and were surprised when it did. This is guys with decades of experience who wont put a DAC and amp together in the same box to avoid electrical noise issues. Here's another example, from another range of products, but still applicable. What it means is that much of the ranting in the last few years appeared to be people barking up the wrong tree, attributing issues with noise to being problems of jitter.  I do agree, from experience, that focussing on random expensive experiments with USB cables to solve a problem that hasn't been nailed down specifically is not ideal. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


rob watts said:


> musicheaven said:
> 
> 
> > Digital transmission is based on SPDIF standard which transmits data and clock information as an encoded signal usually using PCM, that information is decoded on the Mojo into data and clock signal so it's important that the encoded information be jittered free and not degraded over short distance.
> ...


----------



## Evil_Spork

currawong said:


> Because the problem isn't at the digital level, but at an electrical level. Remember the Wyrd? Before it was released I was discussing the prototype of it with Jason Stoddard and he told me of how they didn't believe it would affect the sound at all and were surprised when it did. This is guys with decades of experience who wont put a DAC and amp together in the same box to avoid electrical noise issues. Here's another example, from another range of products, but still applicable. What it means is that much of the ranting in the last few years appeared to be people barking up the wrong tree, attributing issues with noise to being problems of jitter.  I do agree, from experience, that focussing on random expensive experiments with USB cables to solve a problem that hasn't been nailed down specifically is not ideal.


 
 So if I'm understanding what you're saying: A really crappy USB cable could mess with the sound quality. A USB cable with good RF shielding would result in slightly cleaner sound quality?
  
 As always sound quality is subjective to a degree so a "worse" signal could sound better to someone still, based on the description in the post you quoted. But if the goal is "perfect" representation a quality (not a $10k diamond-plated cryo-treated nasa-grade) usb cable would be a good idea over a yard sale special?
  
 This is pretty interesting and all new to me but I guess it makes sense... Ish. (Yay learning!)


----------



## Currawong

Spoiler: USB cable stuff, which is going OT.






evil_spork said:


> currawong said:
> 
> 
> > Because the problem isn't at the digital level, but at an electrical level. Remember the Wyrd? Before it was released I was discussing the prototype of it with Jason Stoddard and he told me of how they didn't believe it would affect the sound at all and were surprised when it did. This is guys with decades of experience who wont put a DAC and amp together in the same box to avoid electrical noise issues. Here's another example, from another range of products, but still applicable. What it means is that much of the ranting in the last few years appeared to be people barking up the wrong tree, attributing issues with noise to being problems of jitter.  I do agree, from experience, that focussing on random expensive experiments with USB cables to solve a problem that hasn't been nailed down specifically is not ideal.
> ...


 
  
 When I started in the hobby, i didn't understand why digital cables could make any difference, so I bought the cheapest optical cable I could find. I tried switching it for the one that came with a DAC, and was shocked that the sound changed for the better. Now optical is a different story and that DAC was cheap and probably not that good so it was probably affected in a way that a modern DAC like the Schiit wouldn't. I learned quickly that I can't be sure of any argument that uses over-simplified logic. 
  
 I'm sure not into crazy expensive silver USB cables -- they are for people with $100k+ systems I reckon (and that's their world, not mine) but a few experiments with various DACs demonstrated to me that there were subtle differences in USB cables. The only logic that made sense with everyone and their dog claiming that their DACs were jitter immune was that noise was getting through. The reason for that is if you disconnected just the power wires on a USB cable some DACs would sound a bit better. Playing with better-than-normal USB power supplies had the same effect. Now at least one manufacturer has confirmed it. 
  
 I have a mix of slightly-better-than-average USB cables (Belkin Gold and similar) and a couple of Oyaide (one is 5m!) and one ALO Green Line. I mainly aim to keep them away from other cables and electronics to avoid interference, but I know that those brands (I talked to Ken from ALO about it for example) that they were made intentionally to be technically better -- no voodoo. 
  
 As much as I'll recommend to anyone is a Belkin Gold and leave it up to choice whether one should try anything more expensive.


----------



## Krazyleggs

Hello everyone. I'm looking for a bit of advice regarding amps. I've narrowed it down to the schiit line of produce. I have a T90 on order and i'm sure to get the most out of it an amp is required. I have a choice between Vali and Valhalla (version 1). I hear tube amps are the way to go with this particular headphone. As i'm unable to audition these amps where I live, I really appreciate any advice to those that have had experience with the above pairings. I play music (FLAC, mp3 320kbps) from my desktop, and will get a DAC a little later on. Ideally I would like something to bring out the bass a little more (not a true basshead) and not add to the brightness. Let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance.


----------



## Billheiser

arcxenos said:


> Gahh, if I do decide to get it, tracking it down locally where I am from is gonna be hellish
> 
> But its the cheapest amp with a tube I can try out sooo



There are no stores anywhere that sell Schiit products, so you don't have to track one down locally. Order from Schiit, with their guarantee, or buy a good used one from the For Sale section of Head-fi.


----------



## ETanner

etanner said:


> Well trigger has been pulled and I saved a bit with a B-model. I don't think those were available last week but $299 for these units seems incredible. I love the possibility of rolling tubes and the likelihood that it's unnecessary. I'm pleased so many in this forum think the stock tubes are great and well-matched. For the short term I'll be using my HRT microstreamer as planned but Bifrost Multibit is probable. I'll post with impressions on this pair but I expect the V2 to show why portable amp/dacs have their limitations. I'll be ordering tube extensions from the local EBay favorite (name not remembered now) to help with oooh factor and cooling.
> 
> PS: Royals are




FedEx is playing with emotions! All week my Schiit has been on track for delivery today. I'm checking updates even before my coffee and WHAT? Tuesday? No way. Well, apparently someone was just jacking with me. Latest update shows we're back on track to plug her up by 8:00 pm. More later.


----------



## bretemm

With USB, 
Does anyone have any sound quality issues when then listening through Schiit?


----------



## KLJTech

bretemm said:


> With USB,
> Does anyone have any sound quality issues when then listening through Schiit?


 
  
 What sort of issues?
  
 I'm listening to the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB) right now and everything is working perfectly.
  
 Are you using a USB 2.0 cable that is of normal length?  
  
 If not, AmazonBasics has very low prices on 2.0 USB cables. 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-2-0-Cable-A-Male/dp/B00NH13DV2/ref=pd_sim_147_7?ie=UTF8&dpID=41hZRfiEYnL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=07YTGMVK0GXS87FWXC31 or you can buy a very nice one from Schiit Audio.


----------



## bretemm

Well, it looks like it might be the recording type. But, I imported some greatfuldead and the vocals seemed far away as well as some of the bass like guitar, as well as piano. The USB cable is one that I just found in my closet. It dosnt look dusty or worn out. I'll get a new one soon tho. It's about 6ft long. 





kljtech said:


> What sort of issues?
> 
> I'm listening to the Gungnir (Gen 2 USB) right now and everything is working perfectly.
> 
> ...


----------



## KLJTech

If it's a Grateful Dead recording it's possible that it's a bootleg (could be of iffy quality) unless you know for certain that it's a studio recording.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, well it's a live concert, but it does say it was remastered. This is the first time I'm really getting into using the USB. 





kljtech said:


> If it's a Grateful Dead recording it's possible that it's a bootleg (could be of iffy quality) unless you know for certain that it's a studio recording.


----------



## raybone0566

Back on topic. I received my vahalia2 yesterday, & coming from the little dot mk.iii the felt the difference in detail was huge. That is an outstanding pairing with the hd800's.


----------



## theblueprint

raybone0566 said:


> Back on topic. I received my vahalia2 yesterday, & coming from the little dot mk.iii the felt the difference in detail was huge. That is an outstanding pairing with the hd800's.




Ahh, V2 and HD800 is seriously endgame!

I'm having the Bimby loaned to me for the next couple days and coming from the uberfrost... amazing, just amazing. More on this later, but I'm going to need to send the uberfrost in for an upgrade. Anyone who's hesitating to do so should seriously reconsider. The differences are not subtle at all.


----------



## KLJTech

I need to send my Gungnir in for the Multibit upgrade...haven't owned a multibit DAC since the early to mid 90's. I am very curious as to how the upgraded Gungnir would compare to my old Monarchy 22A with BB PCM63P-K DAC's. Of course, the Monarchy didn't have USB. I love how Schiit has gone down this path with their DAC's, and I'm sure that many wondered if upgrades would ever be offered when they bought their Schiit DAC's since most companies "say" upgradeable yet never seem to offer any upgrades.


----------



## theblueprint

kljtech said:


> I love how Schiit has gone down this path with their DAC's, and I'm sure that many wondered if upgrades would ever be offered when they bought their Schiit DAC's since most companies "say" upgradeable yet never seem to offer any upgrades.




Yes! If you follow Mike's posts, it's amazing how he planned this all along. Quite genius actually. He built the bifrost and gungnir and left some room in them knowing that he'll give them a multibit upgrade once the technology is available. Schiit started small, so they can amass the funds to build up and then bring back down the technology to their lower offerings. Most companies try doing the opposite, only finding that they have trouble selling their expensive offerings and never bringing budget items to the table. I am ashamed I was skeptical to ever think they couldn't fit a multibit chip and the closed form filter inside the bifrost. Phenomenal!


----------



## Tuco1965

It was a fantastic idea from the get go. Who knows what else may be in store?


----------



## KLJTech

theblueprint said:


> Yes! If you follow Mike's posts, it's amazing how he planned this all along. Quite genius actually. He built the bifrost and gungnir and left some room in them knowing that he'll give them a multibit upgrade once the technology is available. Schiit started small, so they can amass the funds to build up and then bring back down the technology to their lower offerings. Most companies try doing the opposite, only finding that they have trouble selling their expensive offerings and never bringing budget items to the table. I am ashamed I was skeptical to ever think they couldn't fit a multibit chip and the closed form filter inside the bifrost. Phenomenal!


 
  
 Well, Jason and Mike went about things differently then most audio companies, there's no doubt about that. If you haven't read Jason's book or read all the chapters here I highly recommend you buy it (I did). It's difficult not to root for guys that have decided to take a different path than the norm while offering great (upgradable) components at incredibly low prices.


----------



## theblueprint

Haha of course I have their book. And I only read it no less than three times. 

Also, what other company stays so in touch with their customers? It's great that Jason and Mike post here often, and actually taking into account what we talk about. It's the little things like this that makes me proud to be a schiithead.


----------



## 333jeffery

The Gungnir multibit definitely is more revealing than the DS Gungnir. So much so that I decided to go all the way to the Yggdrasil. Can't wait til it comes in.


----------



## KLJTech

theblueprint said:


> Haha of course I have their book. And I only read it no less than three times.
> 
> Also, what other company stays so in touch with their customers? It's great that Jason and Mike post here often, and actually taking into account what we talk about. It's the little things like this that makes me proud to be a schiithead.


 
  
 I'm in the same boat, my wife will say "I thought you already read that?" and I'll just say, "obviously I'm doing research." I wish Mr. Moffatt would write a book as well, I'd buy that in a heartbeat, but we get some insight into Mr. Moffat's world in "Schiit Happens." It was really cool that Mr. Stoddard posted all those chapters here for everyone to read for free, but I prefer to hold the book in my hand and turn the pages...I simply haven't been able to adapt to a Kindle yet.


----------



## theblueprint

http://www.head-fi.org/t/784471/what-a-long-strange-trip-its-been-robert-hunter/0_40

You're subbed to his thread right??? It's Mike's new thread. 

And yeah, the girlfriend finds it peculiar that I read about audio in my free time.


----------



## KLJTech

333jeffery said:


> The Gungnir multibit definitely is more revealing than the DS Gungnir. So much so that I decided to go all the way to the Yggdrasil. Can't wait til it comes in.But what about


 
  
 But what about all of my *24-bit* downloads from HDtracks? (_joking_) I realize I need to make the upgrade, I have little doubt that it'll be worth it. I just have too many hobbies and so little time. I plan on getting it done after the holidays if I have any money left over.


----------



## RCBinTN

kljtech said:


> I need to send my Gungnir in for the Multibit upgrade...haven't owned a multibit DAC since the early to mid 90's. I am very curious as to how the upgraded Gungnir would compare to my old Monarchy 22A with BB PCM63P-K DAC's. Of course, the Monarchy didn't have USB. I love how Schiit has gone down this path with their DAC's, and I'm sure that many wondered if upgrades would ever be offered when they bought their Schiit DAC's since most companies "say" upgradeable yet never seem to offer any upgrades.


 
  
 My advice - upgrade to GMB.  I thought my music sounded great on the Gungnir until I upgraded.  Opened up a whole new level of enjoyment, for me.  All the music is more detailed, it only doesn't help really poor recordings (that probably can't be helped anyway).


----------



## RickB

The thing I find amazing about Schiit Audio is that instead of charging what the market will bear, like most companies, they try to make their products to be as high value for the consumer as possible. I really believe that in the Asgard 2 I have an amp that is worth $800-900, and yet they sell it for only $250. And the thing is built to last for many, many years.


----------



## Deftone

rickb said:


> The thing I find amazing about Schiit Audio is that instead of charging what the market will bear, like most companies, they try to make their products to be as high value for the consumer as possible.* I really believe that in the Asgard 2 I have an amp that is worth $800-900, and yet they sell it for only $250. And the thing is built to last for many, many years.*


 
 thats why, even though i dont get to buy directly from schiit in usa i have to use (electromod (UK) i pay $140 dollars for my modi 2 and $180 for my vali. obviously not as cheap as you guys get it but i do believe im buying quality and its better than the competition.
  
 ill have to pay $740 for the bimby when i have enough for one. how much is it in the usa?
  
 i did want to jump straight to the gungnir multi but the $1,520 puts me off... for now.


----------



## RickB

The Bimby is $599 in the US.


----------



## Matro5

Quick question - is anyone here pairing their Schiit DAC with Apple TV 2? I've been using my Apple TV to my Arcam receiver via optical, but now I want to go purely 2 channel. I've already got a Lyr 2, so I was 

 Just to be clear, I'm talking about the Apple TV 2, not the most recently released version. Pic below. 
  
 Chain would be:  *TIDAL or iTunes library in Apple Lossless --> Bifrost --> Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes --> power amp --> speakers *
  
 I know it would _work_, obviously, but I'm curious if there are any quality concerns with the Apple TV which outputs everything at 48 instead of 44.1? Please note I do not have any hi-rez music, so I don't think downsampling is a concern.


----------



## Toothless

I live in Vietnam, using 220v 50Hz electricity. Recently I accidentally bought a 200 VAC power transformer aimed at Japanese devices, which converts 220V to 100V. Do I really have to buy a 220 to 120V transformer in order to properly power the Magni V1 (It has a 120 VAC adapter)? What can possibly happen if I continue to use the 220V-100V transformer? Thanks all!


----------



## bigro

matro5 said:


> Quick question - is anyone here pairing their Schiit DAC with Apple TV 2? I've been using my Apple TV to my Arcam receiver via optical, but now I want to go purely 2 channel. I've already got a Lyr 2, so I was
> 
> Just to be clear, I'm talking about the Apple TV 2, not the most recently released version. Pic below.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think there is a Tidal option on the Apple TV.
 If you have one of the Apple TV's with the Optical Output it works fine. I Used a Modi 2 U with one for a while I used it mostly for Movies In the bedroom (netflix) I never did care to listen to music through the apple TV so I cant give you a true Review as far as how it sounds. I went Apply TV via optical ---> Modi 2 U ---> Speakers (amplified Harmon Kardon 2 .1 Alien orb looking speakers)


----------



## Billheiser

Works for me. I send Tidal (or iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or etc) from my laptop wirelessly to the Apple TV box which outputs via optical to DAC which goes through integrated amp to speakers. Sounds good, same as cd thru same system.


----------



## Matro5

Yep - to be clear, I'm already using Tidal --> Airplay --> Apple Tv 2. I'm just thinking of upgrading from my Arcam's DAC to the Bifrost and want to make sure it wouldn't be money wasted due to limitations of Airplay / Apple TV. 
  
 CD quality is the goal so thanks @Billheiser- that's very useful.


----------



## bigro

matro5 said:


> Yep - to be clear, I'm already using Tidal --> Airplay --> Apple Tv 2. I'm just thinking of upgrading from my Arcam's DAC to the Bifrost and want to make sure it wouldn't be money wasted due to limitations of Airplay / Apple TV.
> 
> CD quality is the goal so thanks @Billheiser- that's very useful.


 

 Ah did not Factor Airplay I thought You meant Directly off one of the Apple TV apps.


----------



## johnjen

toothless said:


> I live in Vietnam, using 220v 50Hz electricity. Recently I accidentally bought a 200 VAC power transformer aimed at Japanese devices, which converts 220V to 100V. Do I really have to buy a 220 to 120V transformer in order to properly power the Magni V1 (It has a 120 VAC adapter)? What can possibly happen if I continue to use the 220V-100V transformer? Thanks all!


I'd email Schiit and ask.

They usually answer inquiries fairly quickly.

JJ


----------



## cuiter23

matro5 said:


> Quick question - is anyone here pairing their Schiit DAC with Apple TV 2? I've been using my Apple TV to my Arcam receiver via optical, but now I want to go purely 2 channel. I've already got a Lyr 2, so I was
> 
> Just to be clear, I'm talking about the Apple TV 2, not the most recently released version. Pic below.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm using the airport express which doesn't resample and keeps the 44.1khz. Works fine with Tidal going into my amplifier via optical. 
  
 Apple TV will work the same.


----------



## Toothless

johnjen said:


> I'd email Schiit and ask.
> 
> They usually answer inquiries fairly quickly.
> 
> JJ


 

 Thanks. I sent them an email before going to work and they've just replied (damn that's blazing fast response right there!) that the device should work okay.


----------



## ForceofWill

Went on a little bit of an upgrade spree here on the forums.  Picked up a Bifrost Uber, Lyr-2 and a pair of LCD2.2's and HD650's.  I've been using 80ohm DT-770's and an iBasso D4 mamba since 2011 lol.
  
 Needless to say I'm excited.


----------



## bigro

forceofwill said:


> Went on a little bit of an upgrade spree here on the forums.  Picked up a Bifrost Uber, Lyr-2 and a pair of LCD2.2's and HD650's.  I've been using 80ohm DT-770's and an iBasso D4 mamba since 2011 lol.
> 
> Needless to say I'm excited.




So when are you sending the uber in for the Multi Bit upgrade?


----------



## jfoxvol

I just splurged and picked up an Asgard 2 on amazon.  Holy cow.  Very very impressed.  I always loved the tonality of the original Asgard (which I still have).  This thing is a one stop shop for pretty much all your needs (except an HE-6, of course).  I've been rotating amps in my living room system and really wanted to try this one and I'm glad I got it.  So far, it's in my main system while I work.  Later tonight, we'll see how the Bimby likes it.  Well done, guys.


----------



## madwolfa

Asgard 2 and Bimby - match made in heaven.


----------



## jfoxvol

madwolfa said:


> Asgard 2 and Bimby - match made in heaven.


 
 Just plugged in my Ether Cs (still have running from Yggy).  Gee willikers.


----------



## David Aldrich

jfoxvol said:


> Just plugged in my Ether Cs (still have running from Yggy).  Gee willikers.


 
  
  


madwolfa said:


> Asgard 2 and Bimby - match made in heaven.


 

 Running my Mjolnir 2 from a Bimby while my Gumby is out of commission. Love it with the Ethers.


----------



## ForceofWill

My stack is here and hooked up!  I have to listen to everything again now.


----------



## jfoxvol

forceofwill said:


> My stack is here and hooked up!  I have to listen to everything again now.




Looking good. Try the LISST tubes if you get a chance. They work so well with that amp. Is that the mb Bifrost?


----------



## ForceofWill

jfoxvol said:


> Looking good. Try the LISST tubes if you get a chance. They work so well with that amp. Is that the mb Bifrost?


 
  
 No, MB.  It's a USB2 though.  I ordered some 6n23p's that shipped from Ukraine, hopefully they'll be here soon.


----------



## Rem0o

Anyone with either Gungnir or Yggy tried the new Chromecast 2 with optical ? Does it light up the "buy better gear" light?


----------



## David Aldrich

rem0o said:


> Anyone with either Gungnir or Yggy tried the new Chromecast 2 with optical ? Does it light up the "buy better gear" light?


 

 That reminds me I should try some different streaming devices to see how they behave with the DACs.
  
 Also going to see if a digital reclocker will keep the BBG LED unlit even with known bad sources.


----------



## NineRedTools

Quick question about the Schiit Valhalla 2, since I don't know where to post this
  
 Does anybody know how well the LISST tubes work with the Valhalla 2? 
  
 And also, has anybody bought a b-stock Schiit amp? How bad are the cosmetic damages? I plan on plasti-dipping my valhalla 2 black, so I'm wondering if I should just get the cheaper version instead.


----------



## ETanner

I received my new "B" stock less than a week ago. I had difficulty locating anything on it at all distracting. I finally discovered a tiny scrape directly above the volume today as I was very close to see how it as set. If this is typical and I knew I wanted to keep it ( no 15 day preview on "B") I wouldn't hesitate to get another.


----------



## raybone0566

nineredtools said:


> Quick question about the Schiit Valhalla 2, since I don't know where to post this
> 
> Does anybody know how well the LISST tubes work with the Valhalla 2?
> 
> And also, has anybody bought a b-stock Schiit amp? How bad are the cosmetic damages? I plan on plasti-dipping my valhalla 2 black, so I'm wondering if I should just get the cheaper version instead.


I've ordered b-stock a couple times and the imperfections are very small. You really have to look for it to locate it. Extra 50 bucks to spare


----------



## hodgjy

Their A stock has imperfections as well. I've had 5 pieces of Schiit in my stable over the years, and they've all had very minor blemishes. Very small. I'm guessing B stock is mostly returns or product that exceeds their threshold for acceptable blemishes.


----------



## Billheiser

hodgjy said:


> Their A stock has imperfections as well. I've had 5 pieces of Schiit in my stable over the years, and they've all had very minor blemishes. Very small. I'm guessing B stock is mostly returns or product that exceeds their threshold for acceptable blemishes.



I also have had 5 Schiit units over time, but have seen zero blemishes


----------



## Torq

billheiser said:


> I also have had 5 Schiit units over time, but have seen zero blemishes




Two mini-Schiits and two mega-Schiits and no blemishes here either (none are B-stock).

That said the LEDs on my original Lyr and Bifrost are very different shades of white ... . (No, I don't care).

Yggy and Rag LEDs match perfectly though.


----------



## artur9

torq said:


> Yggy and Rag LEDs match perfectly though.


 

 We need @Baldr to offer thumb-in-the-eye-to-Krell blue LEDs again


----------



## Deftone

artur9 said:


> We need @Baldr to offer thumb-in-the-eye-to-Krell blue LEDs again


 
 i cant agree with that, hope blue dies a horrible chinese death.
  
 white, green, amber and red. thats the only LEDs that should be allowed to exist


----------



## JohnBal

deftone said:


> i cant agree with that, hope blue dies a horrible chinese death.
> 
> white, green, amber and red. thats the only LEDs that should be allowed to exist


 
 Wow... Don't tell Emotiva that.


----------



## Deftone

just my opinion but i really do dislike blue LEDs on hifi equipment these days, on a tube amp for example my top choices would be orange or red.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

I have a washer and dryer with orange LED controls.  I want to scrap the machines and get new ones just because of how hideous orange is as an LED.  It's a cheap color.  
 Nice Blue: Expensive and fantastic
 Nice White: Can be classy, can be cheap depending on the type.
 Nice Red: Default.  
 Nice Green:  Cheap.  Good feel.
 Orange: Eyes bleed cheap.
  
 Other Colors: exotic


----------



## Billheiser

http://www.amazon.com/LightDims-793573834232-Original-Strength/dp/B009WSJNCW/ref=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41WhlqVX-iL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_SL500_SR68%2C135_&refRID=1RNQT2AM3650RW4F4CGG


----------



## Torq

perfectanalog said:


> I have a washer and dryer with orange LED controls.  I want to scrap the machines and get new ones just because of how hideous orange is as an LED.  It's a cheap color.
> Nice Blue: Expensive and fantastic
> Nice White: Cheap and good.
> Nice Red: Default.
> ...


 

 Interesting perspective ... 
  
 White LEDs are almost always a natively blue LED exciting a yellow phosphor to give the appearance of white ... in other words, they're typically more expensive than blue LEDs for the same mcd rating.


----------



## PerfectAnalog

Oh.  I wasn't referring to cost.  I was referring to the impression the color gives 
 I'll retract the white as cheap. My Bifrost has white and looks very classy.


----------



## Torq

perfectanalog said:


> Oh.  I wasn't referring to cost.  I was referring to the impression the color gives
> I'll retract the white as cheap. My Bifrost has white and looks very classy.


 

 No, no ... I got what you meant! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I just thought the perspective was interesting.  As an engineer (among other things), it's nice to see how some of our design choices are actually perceived.
  
 I have an iDecco sitting around here somewhere.  It lights up the tube it uses, when its selected to be in-circuit, with a blue LED that looks rather silly.  In that case, orange would make more sense - though having seen orange LEDs on appliances myself, I'm with you on them just looking a bit naff there!


----------



## PerfectAnalog

That's funny.  The orange glow of tubes doesn't look cheap.  It's just orange LED's (see Maytag washer/dryers).  Seriously.  It makes me not want to do laundry more than naturally not wanting to do laundry.....


----------



## Billheiser

perfectanalog said:


> That's funny.  The orange glow of tubes doesn't look cheap.  It's just orange LED's (see Maytag washer/dryers).  Seriously.  It makes me not want to do laundry more than naturally not wanting to do laundry.....


 

 "Honey, I would have done the laundry, except I don't like the color of the display."  Pretty weak, you'd better sprain your ankle or something to get out of laundry duty.


----------



## Torq

billheiser said:


> "Honey, I would have done the laundry, except I don't like the color of the display."  Pretty weak, you'd better sprain your ankle or something to get out of laundry duty.


 
  
 How about ...

 Arggghh!!  My eyes!
  
 I've sprained my eyes!
  
 Your honor?!  I need $12 million for my sprained eyes!!


----------



## MarcelE

perfectanalog said:


> That's funny.  The orange glow of tubes doesn't look cheap.  It's just orange LED's (see Maytag washer/dryers).  Seriously.  It makes me not want to do laundry more than naturally not wanting to do laundry.....


 
 Washer and dryer are on the attic, so when the clothes are in there and the machines are turned on I immediately
 go downstairs and do other things. I wouldn't even know which colors the leds have (if any). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 In other words: for me it doesn't matter which colors leds have, in fact I wouldn't mind if they didn't have any leds at all.


----------



## cuiter23

If anyone is looking for an excellent condition Asgard 2, I have one for sale.


----------



## MrPanda

I wonder if Schiit will have any Black Friday deals... A special sale on Lyr 2 would be excellent...


----------



## jfoxvol

They don't do sales


----------



## raybone0566

Every time is switch gear I have to switch cables around. Do they sell a cable that allows more than one piece of gear to be hooked up. Thanks


----------



## Mr Rick

raybone0566 said:


> Every time is switch gear I have to switch cables around. Do they sell a cable that allows more than one piece of gear to be hooked up. Thanks


 
 Like one DAC to two amps?  A "Y" cable will work.


----------



## raybone0566

mr rick said:


> Like one DAC to two amps?  A "Y" cable will work.


Exactly, Rick is that what you call it? You don't have a link by any chance.


----------



## Mr Rick

raybone0566 said:


> Exactly, Rick is that what you call it? You don't have a link by any chance.


 
 Lots of RCA "Y" cables on Amazon. They all work.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=rca+y


----------



## Rudiger

And in the "FAQ" section of the Sys :
  
" *Hey, can you use this in reverse to switch 1 input to two outputs?*
 Yes, with the volume all the way up. But why not just use RCA Y-cables or splitters, like these?  "


----------



## Sam Lord

raybone0566 said:


> Exactly, Rick is that what you call it? You don't have a link by any chance.


 

 It's not a good idea to leave a long piece of cable attached to the source without being terminated, usually to a piece of gear.  You won't blow anything up but it's not good for sound quality.  And if you're comparing two pieces of gear, don't be connected to both pieces at once.  The input circuit and ground from the idle piece of gear, *whether or not* it's turned on, can mess with the performance of the active piece.  Seriously, when comparing, make the effort to swap the cables.


----------



## 45longcolt

raybone0566 said:


> Every time is switch gear I have to switch cables around. Do they sell a cable that allows more than one piece of gear to be hooked up. Thanks


 
  
 There are "Y connectors" which split the signal - for example you can send the DAC output to two amps. Look at Monoprice.


----------



## rovopio

mr rick said:


> Lots of RCA "Y" cables on Amazon. They all work.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=rca+y


 
  
  


45longcolt said:


> There are "Y connectors" which split the signal - for example you can send the DAC output to two amps. Look at Monoprice.


 
  
 I have 1 Modi and 2 amps, a magni and a Little Dot. So if I buy 2 of these http://www.amazon.com/Link-Triple-Shielded-Y-Adapter-Adapters/dp/B00TSF89KQ/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448329658&sr=1-6&keywords=rca+y
  
 I can plug both my Magni and Little Dot to the Modi at the same time? Wow didn't know that... thank you!
  
 A quick question, is there any degradation to sound quality or anything else (electrical or otherwise) that I should be concern about?


----------



## DjBobby

rovopio said:


> I have 1 Modi and 2 amps, a magni and a Little Dot. So if I buy 2 of these http://www.amazon.com/Link-Triple-Shielded-Y-Adapter-Adapters/dp/B00TSF89KQ/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1448329658&sr=1-6&keywords=rca+y
> 
> I can plug both my Magni and Little Dot to the Modi at the same time? Wow didn't know that... thank you!


 
  
 Only slightly pricier, but it allows me to connect 4 amps to a single dac: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/E93-Free-Shipping-4-Port-Input-1-Output-RCA-Switch-Audio-Video-AV-Switcher-Selector-Box/32310052204.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.N9UYE1&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_8


----------



## Letmebefrank

I find that using a Y splitter will reduce the source volume of both components hooked up. Using a switch doesn't have that effect because only one amp can draw from the signal at a time. When I had my speaker amp and my magni 2 hooked up to my modi 2 Uber, the volume would be less than when I unplugged either amp. So I changed to a schiit SYS in reverse to act as a switch, now the volume is normal all the time and I can have both amps on at the same time without sound coming from both, allowing for easy switching between headphones and speakers.


----------



## rovopio

letmebefrank said:


> So I changed to a schiit SYS in reverse to act as a switch


 
  
 Can I ask how do you use the SYS in reverse? So your 2 amps RCA cables are plugged in to SYS in? and the Modi RCA cables are plugged into SYS out?


----------



## Letmebefrank

rovopio said:


> Can I ask how do you use the SYS in reverse? So your 2 amps RCA cables are plugged in to SYS in? and the Modi RCA cables are plugged into SYS out?




Exactly, it's passive so it works either way.


----------



## rovopio

letmebefrank said:


> Exactly, it's passive so it works either way.


 
  
 It works that way? great! Thank you for the tips!


----------



## David Aldrich

Backwards you must keep the Sys volume at full. It is ONLY a switch when reversed.


----------



## sheldaze

letmebefrank said:


> I find that using a Y splitter will reduce the source volume of both components hooked up. Using a switch doesn't have that effect because only one amp can draw from the signal at a time. When I had my speaker amp and my magni 2 hooked up to my modi 2 Uber, the volume would be less than when I unplugged either amp. So I changed to a schiit SYS in reverse to act as a switch, now the volume is normal all the time and I can have both amps on at the same time without sound coming from both, allowing for easy switching between headphones and speakers.


 
 I found the same issue!
 People continued to tell me what I was hearing, but _this_ is exactly what I heard!
  


david aldrich said:


> Backwards you must keep the Sys volume at full. It is ONLY a switch when reversed.


 
 +1, in fact I think this discussion is in the Sys thread and endorsed by Schiit, although Schiit also endorses just using the Y-cable too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I've taken my Sys to meets to allow people to A/B two (of my) systems with identical volume.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I'm pretty sure the level/volume knob on my SYS works when it's set up in reverse. I haven't experimented with it much though because I only need it for a high quality switch.


----------



## David Aldrich

letmebefrank said:


> I'm pretty sure the level/volume knob on my SYS works when it's set up in reverse. I haven't experimented with it much though because I only need it for a high quality switch.




It does not, it also doesn't work with phono levels signals or headphone level signals into low impedance loads.


----------



## bretemm

Does anyone use a DAP (FIIO?) with Schiit? If so, what do you choose to connect it? 
How much of a diffrence do you hear?


----------



## theblueprint

Why do you want to line out a fiio to your amp when you already have a bifrost? Makes no sense.


----------



## bigro

Depending on which FIIO DAP you have It does make sense. The X3II and X5II models have a Coax Output. If you are outputting via the Coax output of the DAP to the Coax input of your Modi 2 U, Bifrost etc it's really no different than using a computer with usb or cd player  with optical output. You bypass the Internal DAC of the DAP and now you can take advantage of the Schiit Stack.
  
 I have Done this from time to time at work when my desktop was doing the millions of updates we do every few weeks or when I had albums on my sd cards that I did not have a chance to transfer to my portable Hard drive . It works Perfectly Fine. I have not done any critical listening comparisons.It sounds good and that's all the impressions I have.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, I have the fiio x1, it only has 1 headphone jack out, so, I should get a -headphone jack out to coaxial? 

Thank you 





bigro said:


> Depending on which FIIO DAP you have It does make sense. The X3II and X5II models have a Coax Output. If you are outputting via the Coax output of the DAP to the Coax input of your Modi 2 U, Bifrost etc it's really no different than using a computer with usb or cd player  with optical output. You bypass the Internal DAC of the DAP and now you can take advantage of the Schiit Stack.
> 
> I have Done this from time to time at work when my desktop was doing the millions of updates we do every few weeks or when I had albums on my sd cards that I did not have a chance to transfer to my portable Hard drive . It works Perfectly Fine. I have not done any critical listening comparisons.It sounds good and that's all the impressions I have.


----------



## rmullins08

X1 can't output a digital signal out of the headphone jack, it can only be switched onto a Line Out mode


----------



## bretemm

Ok. 
How about the fiio amplifiers? (I've seen some pictures of someone using one with Schiit) 
Thank you 





rmullins08 said:


> X1 can't output a digital signal out of the headphone jack, it can only be switched onto a Line Out mode


----------



## bretemm

I don't mean any dumb questions, 
I have heard a big diffence using Schiit vs just my iPod, I perfer using Schiit when I can and especially now With the Bifrost. 
And now getting into differnt file formats with fiio, I hope it works some way 





rmullins08 said:


> X1 can't output a digital signal out of the headphone jack, it can only be switched onto a Line Out mode


----------



## bigro

brettem.  When You Ask Questions please be specific as to each device you are trying to use and how you are connecting them. There are about 15 Products that schiit has on their website not including upgrades and accessories. Fiio is the same. Some have multiple inputs and outputs. If you are specific the back and forth debates will be minimal and you will get a better answer. Just saying I want to use my schiit or a FIIO Dap without specifics does not work. If you can't be specific to help us help you there is a good chance that myself and the few others here that still answer your questions will no longer continue to do so.
   
  
 Quote:


rmullins08 said:


> X1 can't output a digital signal out of the headphone jack, it can only be switched onto a Line Out mode


 
  
 To reiterate the answer to your question
 ^^^^^^ What rmullins said^^^^^.  The X1 has  an analog Line Output so A Bifrost or Any other external DAC for that Matter cannot be used directly with an X1. You can go from your X1 to a headphone amp (FIIO or any other Amp)but Unless your cans need more power as Blueprint Stated. Why? The improvement if any will be minimal.
  
 No. You cannot get a Headphone to Coax Cable and Expect it to work. A Headphone output is an analog signal and coaxial input on the Bifrost requires a digital signal. No Way will a plain cable change this ever.


----------



## Torq

bretemm said:


> I don't mean any dumb questions,
> I have heard a big diffence using Schiit vs just my iPod, I perfer using Schiit when I can and especially now With the Bifrost.
> And now getting into differnt file formats with fiio, I hope it works some way


 
  
 Since the Fiio X1 has no digital output, the most you can do is feed it's line-out to your Valhalla 2.
  
 Is the X1 the only source you have that can play the file formats you're referring to (hard to tell, since you don't say which iPod you have)?
  
 If it is, and you really want to play it through your Valhalla 2, then you either need to get the necessary 3.5mm to RCA cable and then either manually switch cables to the Valhalla 2, or get a SYS (or Similar) for the switching.
  
 If you have an iPod touch then you can pick up an app that will play other file formats (e.g. the Onkyo player) and connect that to your Bifrost digitally.
  
 If you have a PC or Mac then there are other options also.


----------



## bretemm

Thank you! 
What I have or referencing to wanting to use are by Bifrost Delta Sigma, Valhalla2 and Fiio X1. But ok! Thank you! 
Latter on possibly I could get the SYS for better switching insted of unplugging from the Bifrost. 





bigro said:


> brettem.  When You Ask Questions please be specific as to each device you are trying to use and how you are connecting them. There are about 15 Products that schiit has on their website not including upgrades and accessories. Fiio is the same. Some have multiple inputs and outputs. If you are specific the back and forth debates will be minimal and you will get a better answer. Just saying I want to use my schiit or a FIIO Dap without specifics does not work. If you can't be specific to help us help you there is a good chance that myself and the few others here that still answer your questions will no longer continue to do so.
> 
> To reiterate the answer to your question
> ^^^^^^ What rmullins said^^^^^.  The X1 has  an analog Line Output so A Bifrost or Any other external DAC for that Matter cannot be used directly with an X1. You can go from your X1 to a headphone amp (FIIO or any other Amp)but Unless your cans need more power as Blueprint Stated. Why? The improvement if any will be minimal.
> ...


----------



## bretemm

Thank you 





torq said:


> Since the Fiio X1 has no digital output, the most you can do is feed it's line-out to your Valhalla 2.
> 
> Is the X1 the only source you have that can play the file formats you're referring to (hard to tell, since you don't say which iPod you have)?
> 
> ...


----------



## bretemm

Is anyone planning on getting the Vali 2?


----------



## jeremy205100

bretemm said:


> Is anyone planning on getting the Vali 2?


 
 I'm sure they've sold some.


----------



## mysticstryk

I'm probably going to be adding the Vali 2 to my Magni and Modi setup I already have.  Would something like the Schiit SYS allow me to have both my amps hooked up to my Modi at the same time?  How would that work exactly, any degradation in sound quality?


----------



## sheldaze

bretemm said:


> Is anyone planning on getting the Vali 2?


 
 I think a few people already posted - I rather liked the Vali. I just needed something with lower output impedance. The microphonics fixed and tube rolling options are just...icing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I wasn't in a rush though - west to east coast by USPS will take a while.
  


mysticstryk said:


> I'm probably going to be adding the Vali 2 to my Magni and Modi setup I already have.  Would something like the Schiit SYS allow me to have both my amps hooked up to my Modi at the same time?  How would that work exactly, any degradation in sound quality?


 
 Yes:
  

Plug the out from the DAC to the *OUT* on the SYS.
Plug the in to each of the amplifiers from the *IN 1* and *IN 2* on the SYS.
Turn up the volume to full.
Use the switch to select which amplifier to send audio.
  
 Only one amplifier will be fed at a time, per the selector on the SYS. There is no sound degradation.


----------



## mysticstryk

sheldaze said:


> I think a few people already posted - I rather liked the Vali. I just needed something with lower output impedance. The microphonics fixed and tube rolling options are just...icing
> 
> I wasn't in a rush though - west to east coast by USPS will take a while.
> 
> ...




Thanks! I know there are a little cheaper options, but the SYS will blend in nicely with my setup.


----------



## bigro

sheldaze said:


> I think a few people already posted - I rather liked the Vali. I just needed something with lower output impedance. The microphonics fixed and tube rolling options are just...icing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1-
 I used the sys in this manner for some time. Magni 2 U for one pair of cans and as a pre amp and Original Vali for another.
  
 Yeah I am not in a rush either, I actually got my shipping confirmation for the Vali 2 Yesterday.


----------



## CJs06

sheldaze said:


> I think a few people already posted - I rather liked the Vali. I just needed something with lower output impedance. The microphonics fixed and tube rolling options are just...icing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The microphonics are my favorite feature in the Vali. I'm confident that it makes my music sound better every time I tap on the chassis. Hey, it puts a smile on my face, not because I'm easily amused or anything...
  
 I'm currently using the SYS to switch between my Bifrost and Mani. It's an elegant, multi-solution switch huh?


----------



## sheldaze

cjs06 said:


> The microphonics are my favorite feature in the Vali. I'm confident that it makes my music sound better every time I tap on the chassis. Hey, it puts a smile on my face, not because I'm easily amused or anything...
> 
> I'm currently using the SYS to switch between my Bifrost and Mani. It's an elegant, multi-solution switch huh?


 
 SYS - excellent multi-purpose box 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Microphonics - as source of entertainment? Maybe the picture below explains


----------



## raybone0566

I've noticed as of late my music is cutting out for a second then comes back on. I'm suspecting something with the usb. I've heard putting a wyrd in the chain could possibly fix this. Any ideas


----------



## CJs06

raybone0566 said:


> I've noticed as of late my music is cutting out for a second then comes back on. I'm suspecting something with the usb. I've heard putting a wyrd in the chain could possibly fix this. Any ideas



A shorter, didn't come from a printer USB cable fixed the problem for me.


----------



## raybone0566

cjs06 said:


> A shorter, didn't come from a printer USB cable fixed the problem for me.


I've Addressed that, still have the issue. I've got two modi' sand I swapped them out and both had same issue. I've recently upgraded to bitfrost mb and still no luck.


----------



## bigro

raybone0566 said:


> I've Addressed that, still have the issue. I've got two modi' sand I swapped them out and both had same issue. I've recently upgraded to bitfrost mb and still no luck.


 
  Have you tried a different cable? Different computer? What are you using as the Player? Is it streaming? If you are streaming, a different browser? If not streaming a different player?


----------



## raybone0566

bigro said:


> Have you tried a different cable? Different computer? What are you using as the Player? Is it streaming? If you are streaming, a different browser? If not streaming a different player?


My only laptop, windows media player. Going to buy some new cables I guess, since that's the cheaper route. I'm suspecting it's the computer really. I've switched cables already, but I'm going to get some nice ones. Never been to happy with this laptop either. Usually happens once or twice an evening.


----------



## bigro

raybone0566 said:


> My only laptop, windows media player. Going to buy some new cables I guess, since that's the cheaper route. I'm suspecting it's the computer really. I've switched cables already, but I'm going to get some nice ones. Never been to happy with this laptop either. Usually happens once or twice an evening.


 

 Try Foobar 2000 (its free) and set it up with Wasapi Push. (there are Instructions on the Inter webs on how to do this) I had a crappy laptop that had issues from time to time and that helped as foobar is not very resource intense and and the wasapi push at least bypasses the windows volume and probably some of the other crap they add in.WIndows Media Player and those fance visuals can be a problem.  If you have a friend that is willing to allow you to try their laptop for a bit to test with a different computer (maybe not free, you may have to buy them lunch or something). The Pyst USB cables from schiit are straight wire usb cables.I have a few they are good and not too pricey.
  
 While Logically I would work my way up from the DAC that may incur extra costs.Start with the Free stuff and work your way up. The same issue on three different dacs and if you have swapped usb cables already seems like the player or computer.


----------



## Defiant00

raybone0566 said:


> My only laptop, windows media player. Going to buy some new cables I guess, since that's the cheaper route. I'm suspecting it's the computer really. I've switched cables already, but I'm going to get some nice ones. Never been to happy with this laptop either. Usually happens once or twice an evening.


 
  
 Also, try different USB ports if you haven't yet (on my laptop one port always works and the other occasionally cuts out until I unplug the Modi and plug it back in).


----------



## raybone0566

defiant00 said:


> Also, try different USB ports if you haven't yet (on my laptop one port always works and the other occasionally cuts out until I unplug the Modi and plug it back in).


That's next and never thought it could be the music player. Ive got foobar but don't use it often.


----------



## Billheiser

raybone0566 said:


> That's next and never thought it could be the music player. Ive got foobar but don't use it often.



It may be, but the first and most likely reason is (IF you are streaming) then it's a streaming/speed/buffering issue and nothing to do with your cables or other hardware.


----------



## raybone0566

billheiser said:


> It may be, but the first and most likely reason is (IF you are streaming) then it's a streaming/speed/buffering issue and nothing to do with your cables or other hardware.


Bill, I only use windows media player so I'm guessing it's the usb. I've been using this laptop daily for around a year now. I'm going to change sub ports tonight & I went ahead an ordered a wyrd from schiit. Nothing worse than getting into the music and then you lose everything, even for a second. I'm sure you understand


----------



## bigro

raybone0566 said:


> Bill, I only use windows media player so I'm guessing it's the usb. I've been using this laptop daily for around a year now. I'm going to change sub ports tonight & I went ahead an ordered a wyrd from schiit. Nothing worse than getting into the music and then you lose everything, even for a second. I'm sure you understand


 

 Yeah,  Music cutting out when your really enjoying it makes you want to get up and mow the lawn or take the trash out so you don't follow through with your first thought... Whacking the computer with a Hammer.  Hopefully you get it sorted out.


----------



## bretemm

With the Vali2 vs Valhalla2, 
Has anyone been able to compare the two? 
(I know the vali2 was just revealed/ shipping)


----------



## raybone0566

bretemm said:


> With the Vali2 vs Valhalla2,
> Has anyone been able to compare the two?
> (I know the vali2 was just revealed/ shipping)


May wanna ask this question in the Vali2 thread


----------



## Netrum

2.5 months ago i returned my Modi to the store i bought it from.
And they told me they are waiting on parts from Schiit?
So i dont know what to do now.

But i have learned something from this.
Always buy directly from schiit.
Not worth it buying from a store :S


----------



## Letmebefrank

My magni 2 died today. no idea what happened. worked fine last night, flicked it on today and it didnt make a click sound, but the light on the front and the orange one inside turned on. No sound at all coming from it, speaker/speaker amp work fine from same source (modi 2U)
  
 just contacted schiit. really really bummed about this. Listening to my xonar DX now. sounds like crap.


----------



## bretemm

Is it within the warranty? All you need is the box and print out the proof of purchase from Schiit and they'll fix it. 





letmebefrank said:


> My magni 2 died today. no idea what happened. worked fine last night, flicked it on today and it didnt make a click sound, but the light on the front and the orange one inside turned on. No sound at all coming from it, speaker/speaker amp work fine from same source (modi 2U)
> 
> just contacted schiit. really really bummed about this. Listening to my xonar DX now. sounds like crap.


----------



## swifty7

Bought my very fist tube amp the Schiit Vali ($99).  Powering my AKG k712pro and all I can say is holly schiit.   It unlocked the full potential of my AKG's that I didn't know it existed before with my  SMSL solid state desktop amp.  The Vali gives everything so much dimension, detail/space and analog smoothness.   I truly didn't expect this kind of difference.  Tubes truly does live up to their reputation.  Even Spotify 320kbs tracks sound amazing with it.   Also the Vali is eerily dead quiet when nothing is fed to it.   It also took my creative titanium HD to a totally new level.


----------



## nk126

Merry Christmas to me! Thanks to some loved ones with good taste, I'm now in the club  

Happy holidays y'all


----------



## SeaWo|f

Just an FYI to anyone who is interested Black rags in stock ATM. Ordered mine, will post pics when it arrives.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Shipped my magni 2 to Schiit once they approved the repair. I'm happy they are going to repair it, and the customer service is great and fast, but at the same time it's kind of a bummer to pay 15% of an items cost to ship it in for repairs that it shouldn't need in the first place. I am so so careful and gentle with my electronics that when something breaks it's a big letdown.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Monolith arrived today.


----------



## MWSVette

seawo|f said:


> Monolith arrived today.


 

 ​Looks good in black...


----------



## disastermouse

seawo|f said:


> Monolith arrived today.


 

 I've never seen the black Schiit before, outside of work. I think maybe you need to get your hemoglobin checked.
  
 Still, that's a crazypants sexy machine.


----------



## Byronb

WOW!!


----------



## Rotijon

Looks better in black to be honest.

@Jason Stoddard , Just do a 230V run in black =D


----------



## bigro

I like the Black but If I ever did get one in black I would have to get the Knob anodized black if its aluminum or if some other metal another method of making it black. The Silver is Nice though the wife likes it so she does not mind the pile of schiit I have.


----------



## bretemm

When might the first 2016 Schiit come out? I'm looking to soon order the Vali2 and SYS then also a WYRD. Then possibly another dac to use with just my computer. But, could any of those be soon updated? 

Thanks


----------



## SeaWo|f

Considering the vali2 was just released, the sys is a switch and the wyrd is a usb cleaner I would wager no. But either way they wont tell you.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you. yea as I posted that I was thinking about what Jason has said about not talking about new products. The book is great. 





seawo|f said:


> Considering the vali2 was just released, the sys is a switch and the wyrd is a usb cleaner I would wager no. But either way they wont tell you.


----------



## GregH

New Schiit owner here:
 For Christmas I acquired (from head-fi members) an Asgard 2 and a Modi 2 Uber to pair with my PSB M4U 1 headphones.
  
_Man, this Schiit sounds great!_  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Greg


----------



## Designer79

Dear Schiit owners,
  
 And another Schiit newbie here, waiting for my first Schiit - stack to arrive here in beautiful Switzerland (you know, cows, chocolate, Piega loudspeakers, Switzerland nod Sweden ...  ). I have ordered a Vali 2 and Modi 2 Uber, hopefully the right products to have a happy start into compact hi-fi with. Gifted myself a Beyerdynamic T90 for christmas. I know I am late to the game, but better late than never. Wish you enjoy your gear!


----------



## GregH

Listening to Aaron Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man performed by the Cincinnati Pops Orchestra and conducted by Erich Kunzel. It's in WAV format (lossless, 1411 kbps, 44.1 KHz) pulled off of the CD using EAC.
  
 Wow!


----------



## sysfail

Has anyone compared the Modi 2 Uber to the newest Bifrost (Non-multibit)? It's like a ~$250 price jump, wondering if it's worthwhile or the Modi 2 Uber is good enough.


----------



## oAmadeuso

sysfail said:


> Has anyone compared the Modi 2 Uber to the newest Bifrost (Non-multibit)? It's like a ~$250 price jump, wondering if it's worthwhile or the Modi 2 Uber is good enough.


 
 Not quite what you're asking but I went from Modi 2 USB to Bifrost Multibit and got a very large increase in sound quality.
 Both in Bass and detail.


----------



## crazychile

sysfail said:


> Has anyone compared the Modi 2 Uber to the newest Bifrost (Non-multibit)? It's like a ~$250 price jump, wondering if it's worthwhile or the Modi 2 Uber is good enough.




I once went from an original Modi to the old Bifrost Uber. It made a bigger difference than going from the original Vali to the Lyr 2. I would think the newer digital products should get you a similar leap in performance.


----------



## sysfail

Thanks! Yeah I know the Modi 2 Uber to Bifrost Multibit is definitely a big jump just not sure if the normal Bifrost would compete. What about the older Bifrost Uber? Wonder how that one competes within all of this.


----------



## Deftone

I know someone on here did a blind comparison between the modi 2 Uber and Bifrost Uber and kept getting it wrong he thought the modi was the bifrost, then did a Modi 2 U vs Pc sound card and the same thing happened. in the end he couldnt tell any difference and he said he would be happy with the sound card. i dont know if anyone has done a test with Modi2U and Bifrost 4490 / Mulitbit.


----------



## Michael V

Honestly I could tell no difference between my asus xonar stx soundcard vs my schiit bifrost uber paired with a schiit lyr 2. So i returned/sold the bifrost and the lyr and kept my soundcard. Saved a ton of money lol


----------



## cuiter23

michael v said:


> Honestly I could tell no difference between my asus xonar stx soundcard vs my schiit bifrost uber paired with a schiit lyr 2. So i returned/sold the bifrost and the lyr and kept my soundcard. Saved a ton of money lol


 
  
 Can't argue with that excuse lol


----------



## Deftone

It seems like delta sigma is just that good these days. im hoping to hear a difference when i get a Gungnir Multibit. it will be frustraiting if i cant hear any differences because i actually want to upgrade.


----------



## crazychile

sysfail said:


> Thanks! Yeah I know the Modi 2 Uber to Bifrost Multibit is definitely a big jump just not sure if the normal Bifrost would compete. What about the older Bifrost Uber? Wonder how that one competes within all of this.




You should read my previous post.


----------



## sysfail

crazychile said:


> You should read my previous post.


 
  
 It looks like a DAC upgrade was more significant than an amp upgrade. That's interesting, it's usually the opposite.
  
 I keep getting mixed responses in regards to DAC upgrades. Some say it's all the same after a certain point (like the Modi 2 Uber) and some say there's substantial improvements.


----------



## SeaWo|f

That the thing when you are talking about subjective improvements. Something that is big for one person may not even be audible for another, the further you go up the chain the more of a problem this becomes becauseI always like to say that if you chart audio quality vs money it is logarithmic.


----------



## sysfail

Yeah I'm really hesitant to drop an extra ~$250 over the Modi 2 Uber for only a marginal difference, I'm specifically talking about the newest Bifrost with the 4409 chip (not the Multibit). Would be great to hear from someone who has heard/own both. I'm just considering the Bifrost as the final piece to my setup paring with the Valhalla 2 + HD800, or just stick with the Modi 2 Uber and save a bunch of money lol.


----------



## SeaWo|f

ahh if your pairing with that then Bifrost all the way, the stack will look purdy. Whats an extra 300 for the right stand to accompany the Valhalla. YMMV


----------



## sysfail

seawo|f said:


> ahh if your pairing with that then Bifrost all the way, the stack will look purdy. Whats an extra 300 for the right stand to accompany the Valhalla. YMMV


 
  
 Haha right? $300 for uniformity sakes, who cares about the sound.


----------



## sheldaze

If you get the Bifrost, you _can_ upgrade it later, as upgrades become available. It is a future investment.


----------



## rovopio

sysfail said:


> Yeah I'm really hesitant to drop an extra ~$250 over the Modi 2 Uber for only a marginal difference, I'm specifically talking about the newest Bifrost with the 4409 chip (not the Multibit). Would be great to hear from someone who has heard/own both. I'm just considering the Bifrost as the final piece to my setup paring with the Valhalla 2 + HD800, or just stick with the Modi 2 Uber and save a bunch of money lol.


 
  
 If you're really hesitant then get the Modi 2 Uber. That's what I did, and I will buy the Bifrost Multibit someday. Probably not soon, but big chances I will get it someday.


----------



## sysfail

rovopio said:


> If you're really hesitant then get the Modi 2 Uber. That's what I did, and I will buy the Bifrost Multibit someday. Probably not soon, but big chances I will get it someday.




I already have the Modi 2 Uber. Just wondering how much improvement there is to the Bifrost, especially the 4490 vs Multibit.


----------



## bigro

gregh said:


> New Schiit owner here:
> For Christmas I acquired (from head-fi members) an Asgard 2 and a Modi 2 Uber to pair with my PSB M4U 1 headphones.
> 
> _Man, this Schiit sounds great!_
> ...


 
 Welcome. I want your Friends 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I have the M4U 1 on right now with a Modi 2 U and a Vali 2. There is also an M4U 1 Thread here as well.


----------



## rovopio

sysfail said:


> I already have the Modi 2 Uber. Just wondering how much improvement there is to the Bifrost, especially the 4490 vs Multibit.


 
  
 In the context of your situation, I wouldn't bother with 4490 and go straight to Multibit. That's what I would do.


----------



## raybone0566

When I upgraded to multibit the improvements were very noticable. I had even considered selling a pair of my phones because at that time their performance wasn't justifying their price. I was skeptical about the whole Dac thing. What I got with multibit was improved detail, soundstage, bass. The music just sounds more natural.


----------



## sysfail

Ok then the Multibit is the goal!


----------



## wahsmoh

sheldaze said:


> If you get the Bifrost, you _can_ upgrade it later, as upgrades become available. It is a future investment.


 

 I bought an Uber a few years ago when it was the greatest Schiit budget DAC (around 2012/13) and now I upgraded it to Bifrost MB 4 years later. The differences were hardly subtle, what amazed me the most was the imaging and separation of soundstage. The Theta DS Pro Progeny v A I bought in May was the first DAC to really open my eyes. I had never directly compared the Uber to anything else.
  
 The Theta DAC was the R2R DAC that reignited people's interest in this whole multi-bit thing. Purrin's post a few years ago about the Theta DS Pro Gen V being like the god of all modern DACs was what really caught my interest. So I landed me a Theta and it changed everything I knew about DACs and what I expected to hear from digital sound. The Progeny has a ridiculously good soundstage and that Theta "weighty sound" where percussions never come off as sounding weak.
  
 It's like hearing music that has real balls to the sound, not some weak digital rendition of what I'm supposed to be hearing. It also works great with new music with lots of bass. Never does it sound flabby, just controlled down low and powerful.
  
 When I compared the Bifrost MB to the Theta, it was like hearing the Theta's space and wonderful imaging but without the "Theta house" sound of weighty and explosive dynamics. People have told me that maybe my opinion is biased because of the 4V output on the Theta versus the standard 2V output of the Bifrost MB. But I have compared them many times and I have done my best to level match them. I always get the feeling that the Theta is still more engaging and dynamic at the expense of some of some of the detail in the highs. The Bifrost MB always sounded slightly more treble tilted but with more accurate texture to the highs and less splash. What I feel it is missing is some of that drive of the Theta sound. If you go to Headmania there is a guy who compares the Yggy to the Theta DS Pro Basic I and I have very similar feelings on the comparison between the Bimby and Theta DS progeny


----------



## disastermouse

I'm really curious to pair this with my new amp. Already the amp has brought a depth to the sound that just wasn't there before. The move from HD650 to HE-500 brought greater _definition_ to the music, but the new amp has brought _shape_ to the music. Adding a BiMBy sounds like it would be a further and worthwhile investment to go further in that direction.


----------



## sheldaze

wahsmoh said:


> I bought an Uber a few years ago when it was the greatest Schiit budget DAC (around 2012/13) and now I upgraded it to Bifrost MB 4 years later. The differences were hardly subtle, what amazed me the most was the imaging and separation of soundstage. The Theta DS Pro Progeny v A I bought in May was the first DAC to really open my eyes. I had never directly compared the Uber to anything else.
> 
> The Theta DAC was the R2R DAC that reignited people's interest in this whole multi-bit thing. Purrin's post a few years ago about the Theta DS Pro Gen V being like the god of all modern DACs was what really caught my interest. So I landed me a Theta and it changed everything I knew about DACs and what I expected to hear from digital sound. The Progeny has a ridiculously good soundstage and that Theta "weighty sound" where percussions never come off as sounding weak.
> 
> ...


 
 I have/had all three: Bimby, Gumby, Yggdrasil
  
 The Gumby upgrade was released prior to the Bimby. And for that reason, I could not keep the Bimby. It's the dynamics, that you heard in the Theta, which I similarly heard in the Gumby, first. And I found it hard to go back to the Bimby. Bimby is excellent, and had I upgraded from Uber to Bimby, I might still own it.
  
 You are not the only one who tried to go from Theta to Bimby - you might want to have a conversation with @Wildcatsare1


----------



## Designer79

So, my first Schiits have finally arrived. And they make for one hell of a compact Hi-Fi system together with a ASRock VisionX HTPC. Sizewise it's the perfect desktop setup. The PC pretty much has the same footprint as a Mac Mini, but it's height is exactly that of the Modi 2 U / Vali 2 stack. Real eye candy ... Soundwise I'm already floored, I'll go into a bit more detail how the combo pairs with the Beyerdynamic T90 after some more hours on the stock-tube and more listening to different genres.
  

  
 Cheers fellow head-fi'ers


----------



## bigro

I run that Stack at work. With a wyrd in the chain. I do not miss my Valhalla 2/Bimby Stack as much when I am at work anymore.


----------



## BeagleBark

Hi everybody. I've been following schiit on head-fi for the past couple of years. I've owned an original Magni and a Bi-Frost uber for roughly 2.5 years. I have no complaints on my gear but I would like to upgrade one of them. Budget is around 250$. What would you guys recommend: upgrading bifrost to multibit or magni to Asgard 2? My headphones are Dt-990 250 ohms. I listen to flac rip from cd's on foobar. Thanks for reading and any input you might have. Cheers.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I always think of importance regarding upgrades as HP first AMP second and DAC third. I cannot comment on the difference in sound quality from each of the devices you listed but I'm sure others have done those upgrades.


----------



## rgmffn

If you are happy with your DT990s, I would suggest a Vali 2 upgrade to your org Magni.  I have that Magni, an org Vali, a Vali 2, and had an Asgard 2 for a short time. I returned the latter. I didn't like it  nearly well as the org Vali that I used at that time and compared it to.  The A2 was also paired up with your exact HPs (not mine) for testing and the results were not good, in our opinion.  The Vali 2 is one heck of an over achiever, IMO. (and you can tune to taste with other tubes)  I don't think you could go wrong with that purchase. It's a nice step-up in audio reproduction over the org Magni fer sure.


----------



## BeagleBark

Thank you both for your replies.


----------



## Designer79

Hi @BeagleBark,
  
 I can strongly vouch for the Vali 2 as well. Though it's my very first headphone-amp, I test-listened to my T90's before connected to Beyerdynamics own solid state amp A20. Even though theoretically the A20 should be the perfect match for the T90, (they basically tailored the amp to the HP) I thought the sound signature was still way too analytical. Maybe that's what the hardcore Beyerdynamic fans wanted/expected, but in my opinion the mid-fi Beyer's strongly profit from a tube amp's signature sound, and the 250 Ohm headphones like your DT990 fit the Vali 2 really well. Some Vali 2 owners were able to hear a slight hiss with the Vali 2 on "high gain". Not with my 250 Ohms T90's, they are silent. I am also considering the Vali 2 to be an "overachiever", I mean man this thing is tiny!
 The simplicity of 1 just 1 tube for easy tube rolling, it's performance, and that for a budget well under 200 is really hard to beat ... And it will be noticeably better than the original magni (again, tube sound signature vs solid state).
  
 Have fun with your new amp, whichever you'll finally choose


----------



## Deftone

rgmffn said:


> If you are happy with your DT990s, I would suggest a Vali 2 upgrade to your org Magni.  I have that Magni, an org Vali, a Vali 2, and had an Asgard 2 for a short time. I returned the latter. I didn't like it  nearly well as the org Vali that I used at that time and compared it to.  The A2 was also paired up with your exact HPs (not mine) for testing and the results were not good, in our opinion.  The Vali 2 is one heck of an over achiever, IMO. (and you can tune to taste with other tubes)  I don't think you could go wrong with that purchase. It's a nice step-up in audio reproduction over the org Magni fer sure.


 
 what do you prefer more OG Vali or Vali 2?
  
 i love the addictive sound of the original Vali


----------



## rgmffn

deftone said:


> what do you prefer more OG Vali or Vali 2?
> 
> i love the addictive sound of the original Vali


 

 I did too. Still do, actually. I feel it has a more tubey like sound than the Vali 2 has. But, the Vali 2 has so much more to offer and the potential to upscale, with tube rolling.  It has a cleaner, clearer sound. And an aluminum housing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
 You get the high - low gain option switching, and the preamp out capability. 
  
 If you aren't monitoring the Vali 2 thread, see my last post here for more enlightenment. It has won me over.


----------



## SeaWo|f

You can roll the vali2 if you want it to be more tubey. They probably picked the stock tube for it and the tubes for rest of their tube amps to be more neutral for wider appeal. Give it a few months and the early adopters will get the tuning options sorted.


----------



## bretemm

What is a recomeded optical audio source (other then a Apple TV) to use with the Bifrost? Any didgital optical audio out media product? 

Thanks


----------



## Letmebefrank

bretemm said:


> What is a recomeded optical audio source (other then a Apple TV) to use with the Bifrost? Any didgital optical audio out media product?
> 
> Thanks


 
 My father uses a WD TV (western digital) optical out to an onkyo receiver, with a 4tb WD external drive hooked to the WD TV full of FLAC files that it plays perfectly.
  
 Heres the supported audio formats
Audio - MP3, WAV/PCM/LPCM, WMA, AAC, FLAC, MKA, AIF/AIFF, OGG, Dolby Digital, DTS


----------



## bretemm

Thank you, 
I can use my Marantz with a music server but it didn't have optical out. Would a media decide like a blueray player be good? I kinda like using the usb, but, then my screen saver turns on and it's annoying logging in to change songs. 





letmebefrank said:


> My father uses a WD TV (western digital) optical out to an onkyo receiver, with a 4tb WD external drive hooked to the WD TV full of FLAC files that it plays perfectly.
> 
> Heres the supported audio formats
> [COLOR=4D4C4C]Audio - MP3, WAV/PCM/LPCM, WMA, AAC, FLAC, MKA, AIF/AIFF, OGG, Dolby Digital, DTS[/COLOR]


----------



## Letmebefrank

bretemm said:


> Thank you,
> I can use my Marantz with a music server but it didn't have optical out. Would a media decide like a blueray player be good? I kinda like using the usb, but, then my screen saver turns on and it's annoying logging in to change songs.



A Blu-ray player for what? What do you want the device to do?


----------



## bretemm

Sorry not bluray, but an alternative to a Apple TV, like a Network audio (NA) Marantz. I recently got a DAP and it's easier then a ipod with how everything is layed out. That's what I want in a media devise to use with my Bifrost, either by USB or Coaxial. 





letmebefrank said:


> A Blu-ray player for what? What do you want the device to do?


----------



## cuiter23

bretemm said:


> Sorry not bluray, but an alternative to a Apple TV, like a Network audio (NA) Marantz. I recently got a DAP and it's easier then a ipod with how everything is layed out. That's what I want in a media devise to use with my Bifrost, either by USB or Coaxial.


 
  
 Just get a Sonos Connect or if you want 24bit get the Bluesound or if you want DSD get the Auralic.


----------



## bretemm

Ok, thank you. 





cuiter23 said:


> Just get a Sonos Connect or if you want 24bit get the Bluesound or if you want DSD get the Auralic.


----------



## canali

Schiit owners, need your suggestions/imput please.
  
 I've been advised that I need a better DAC to drive my current headphone tube amp
 (a _maple tree audio ear plus purist_) from my laptop.
  
 currently i'm using the Dragonfly 1.2 as a DAC.
  
  a few posters have suggested (via private messages when i have reached out to them)
 that instead i need a more robust DAC with it's own direct inline power supply
 that plugs into the wall, to better drive my headphone tube amp.
  
 so which Schiit would you suggest? the bifrost? other
 sorry but i'm not very dac ''savvy' (and the multibit vs reg bifost has me a bit confused)
 ..or another model?
  
 My buddy, however,
 (who used to have a 90k system and has sold off alot of his system)
 says to just skip the schiit and get the Oppo 105D as a great all in one system
 edit: (since i will eventually be getting a blue ray player and do alot of streaming)
  
 thoughts. suggestions, please?


----------



## Defiant00

canali said:


> Schiit owners, need your suggestions/imput please.
> 
> I've been advised that I need a better DAC to drive my current headphone tube amp
> (a _maple tree audio ear plus purist_) from my laptop.
> ...




If Bifrost multibit is within your budget that is likely what most (in this thread at least) would recommend, as most (myself included) seem to feel that multibit is a worthwhile upgrade.

Personally I just went from Modi to Bifrost multibit this past week, and while it wasn't anywhere near "night and day" I do feel like it was a worthwhile upgrade. As always, YMMV.


----------



## Mr Rick

canali said:


> Schiit owners, need your suggestions/imput please.
> 
> I've been advised that I need a better DAC to drive my current headphone tube amp
> (a _maple tree audio ear plus purist_) from my laptop.
> ...


 
 To be honest, you probably don't *need* anything. If you think you need a stand alone DAC then a Modi 2 would probably suffice.
  
 The OPPO is a whole different ball game. If you need/want all those capabilities then it's a good choice.


----------



## sheldaze

canali said:


> Schiit owners, need your suggestions/imput please.
> 
> .
> 
> ...


 
 Are you planning to use the balanced or the single-ended outputs from the Oppo?
  
 I ask because I personally think the single-ended outputs are terrible. It is for this reason that I started to pursue DACs, after purchasing the Oppo to do-it-all exactly as your friend suggests. Now that I'm using the balanced outputs, the Oppo is not that bad.
  
 Ultimately, the dedicated Schiit DACs will still be better.


----------



## canali

sheldaze said:


> Are you planning to use the balanced or the single-ended outputs from the Oppo?
> 
> I ask because I personally think the single-ended outputs are terrible. It is for this reason that I started to pursue DACs, after purchasing the Oppo to do-it-all exactly as your friend suggests. Now that I'm using the balanced outputs, the Oppo is not that bad.
> 
> Ultimately, the dedicated Schiit DACs will still be better.


 
  
 thanks guys....
  
*sheldaze:* i have no idea if i'll used balanced or unbalanced outputs: i've read only good things about balanced outputs, however...but am unsure if it's a more complicated setup? i'm pretty naive about balanced vs unbalanced, i'm afraid.
  
 and if I were to sell the mapletree headphone tube amp and would go for a more updated amp
 which of the schiit amps would you suggest that is great bang for the buck and very musical? (anyone have one or has heard it?
 it's from 2002 but in fab condition)
 http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Amplifier-Tube/Mapletree-Audio-Design/Ear/tubes/93064.html
  
  
 note: i'm no audiophile, no critic: but i do love clear distinct sound, good separation, realism etc.
 (of course we all know the recordings quality are 1st in line)
  
 edited from original post: my buddy also suggested the oppo 105 D as i will be buying a blue ray, and also do alot of streaming.
 so he thought all in one is good way to go...and the 105D has a decent DAC.
  
 but i'm open to standalones, too.


----------



## sheldaze

canali said:


> thanks guys....
> 
> sheldaze: i have no idea if i'll used balanced or unbalanced outputs: i've read only good things about balanced outputs, however...but am unsure if it's a more complicated setup? i'm pretty naive about balanced vs unbalanced, i'm afraid.
> 
> ...


 
 I have a friend who bought the Oppo BDP-103 - it serves the purpose of allowing him to play SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-Ray. But it works well with the single-ended output (it only has single-ended outputs). And it would make for a wonderful transport for a later DAC purchase.
  
 Which DAC? It's really best, if you have the opportunity, to hear them yourself. At a mini-meet this past weekend, a friend was comparing Gungnir and Yggdrasil. He came away wanting a Yggdrasil, but he also could completely understand the goodness/benefit of the Gungnir. In fact, the person who brought the Yggy left thinking (little devil on his shoulder) should he still sell his Gungnir and keep only the Yggy.
  
 Sorry - can't help you pick what would be best for your ears. Hope you can get a chance to listen!


----------



## artur9

canali said:


> edited from original post: my buddy also suggested the oppo 105 D as i will be buying a blue ray, and also do alot of streaming.
> so he thought all in one is good way to go...and the 105D has a decent DAC.


 
 Not sure that they are comparable but..
  
 I had a Panasonic DMP-BDT500 (review) which has highly regarded DACs and many positive reviews as a music player.  But I liked the original Bifrost better.  The music had extra clarity through the Bifrost.  For music I ended up running the SPDIF out from the DMP to the Bifrost.


----------



## Jimmy101

I purchased a bifrost multibit several weeks ago and for a while all was well. I'm using an iPhone 6s as source. In the last 2 days I am getting the msg " this accessory is not supported by this iPhone". However if I power down and unplug the dac and give it a minute or two it will connect. Most times. Any suggestions would be appreciated


----------



## Tuco1965

jimmy101 said:


> I purchased a bifrost multibit several weeks ago and for a while all was well. I'm using an iPhone 6s as source. In the last 2 days I am getting the msg " this accessory is not supported by this iPhone". However if I power down and unplug the dac and give it a minute or two it will connect. Most times. Any suggestions would be appreciated




That sure sounds like an issue with your phone. IOS 9 has worked solidly on my iPad air feeding the Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## Jimmy101

That's my thinking. I'm running 9.02 so the OS is up to date. I've done multiple restarts on the phone but no help. Assuming it's the phone do you have any ideas ss to a remedy?


----------



## Tuco1965

jimmy101 said:


> That's my thinking. I'm running 9.02 so the OS is up to date. I've done multiple restarts on the phone but no help. Assuming it's the phone do you have any ideas ss to a remedy?




Are you using the Apple Lightning to usb adapter?


----------



## Jimmy101

Yes. Was considering that as the culprit


----------



## Tuco1965

Any chance that you have a powered usb hub available? If you do, then try plugging your dac into that and feed the hub from the Lightning adapter.


----------



## Jimmy101

I tried that too. Same result


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm at a loss other than trying a different cable and adapter.


----------



## Jimmy101

I'm going to try the adapter. PC to dac works fine. Also another question. The eeason I thought there might be a dac issue is because it takes 10-20 seconds for the dac to recognize the usb connection. Is that normal? It has done that since day one. 
Thanks for your input


----------



## Tuco1965

So if you connect to your pc, does the dac show up as a playback device right away?


----------



## Jimmy101

Nope. But it doesn't give me any issues ince it is recognized


----------



## Tuco1965

What does your pc do then? No dac shows up until what happens?


----------



## Jimmy101

Until the usb indicator on the BF lights up nothing happens on the PC


----------



## Tuco1965

So you're saying that your Bifrost USB input led is not lit when powered up and set to that input?


----------



## Jimmy101

Correct. It has to search for it. Each three input LED indicators light up alternately until it "finds" the usb input. Then there is a click and then a double click when you begin playing music


----------



## oAmadeuso

jimmy101 said:


> Correct. It has to search for it. Each three input LED indicators light up alternately until it "finds" the usb input. Then there is a click and then a double click when you begin playing music



Have you just switched it on?
If so this is normal and it's the DAC "booting up".
Advice here is to leave it powered up 24/7.
Will improve sound too.


----------



## bigro

oamadeuso said:


> Have you just switched it on?
> If so this is normal and it's the DAC "booting up".
> Advice here is to leave it powered up 24/7.
> Will improve sound too.


 

 +1


----------



## Jimmy101

Will take your advice and leave it on. I think part of the problem has been the bootup with the phone connected. With the dac on and then plugging in phone no problems. 
Thanks


----------



## Jimmy101

Now that I've resolved my issues I'll give a brief introduction. 
I started my trip to the poor house with the Hifi M8 and the Shure 5140 and then the 1840 a while back and was quite happy. However I'm a live music fanatic and attend a wide variety of shows from ultra small clubs to arenas. Jazz, rock, accoustic to classical and my equipment was not up to the task of putting me at the show. So the new search began. 

I ended up with the BF multi plus Lyr 2 with HE 560's and Ether C. Then a set if amperex 7308 vintage gold pin tubes. Funny to me that is a relatively modest setup in this world. 

Now i can enjoy "being there" at home especially with the 560's. The visceral experience is just incredible. I feel everything as well as hear it.

Many thanks to the people on the forums for thier reviews and info. Without you guys I wouldn't have known where to begin.

Regards


----------



## Jimmy101

One more question. Any suggestions as to a dock for an iPod Classic?


----------



## sheldaze

jimmy101 said:


> One more question. Any suggestions as to a dock for an iPod Classic?


 
 I didn't read your previous post, but yes - Pure i-20.
  
 It acts as a DAC with RCA outputs, and as a pass-thru for Toslink and COAX digital output to your own DAC. It's what I'm planning to use from now on at the local meets.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



And I've read your previous post now


----------



## Jimmy101

Thanks for the input. I knew that was an option, just wanted to verify that was the way to go


----------



## Angular Mo

Having upgraded to the Bifrost multibit I can say it adds detail (but not harshness) so that I hear more, and "see" more, such that I no longer have the same impulse to turn up the volume to get a little more.


----------



## artur9

The Uber demands that I listen.  Sometimes it's annoying.


----------



## Jimmy101

Is there an alternative to using the lightning to USB adapter from Apple? Meaning an integrated cable?


----------



## bookah

.


----------



## albertH

Hopefully someone likes a good brain teaser.
  
 Bought a Mac Pro (Darth Vader garbage can model) running Mavericks and happily used my Modi/Vali setup with if for the last couple of years, no issues. Thought I would make the leap and upgrade to El Capitan. After the upgrade my computer would not recognize the DAC at all (LED light on the Modi would come on) otherwise would not show up in the system anywhere as being connected. Thinking it was the OS, I wiped the HD and reinstalled Mavericks so I was back to where I started. However the Modi still won't show up. I've tried a variety of different USB cables, port, hubs, etc... nothing.
  
 Any ideas?


----------



## johnjen

As long as you have performed a COMPLETE (as in all peripherals as well) shutdown (and remained off for ≈ 30 secs) and you still are having problems then Zapp yer pram, and if you have DiskWarrior run it as well.

JJ


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

alberth said:


> Hopefully someone likes a good brain teaser.
> 
> Bought a Mac Pro (Darth Vader garbage can model) running Mavericks and happily used my Modi/Vali setup with if for the last couple of years, no issues. Thought I would make the leap and upgrade to El Capitan. After the upgrade my computer would not recognize the DAC at all (LED light on the Modi would come on) otherwise would not show up in the system anywhere as being connected. Thinking it was the OS, I wiped the HD and reinstalled Mavericks so I was back to where I started. However the Modi still won't show up. I've tried a variety of different USB cables, port, hubs, etc... nothing.
> 
> Any ideas?




Have you tried connecting the DAC to a USB 2.0 hub and connecting the hub to the Mac Pro?


----------



## freitz

I was curious to get more opinions so I will post this here as well.
  
 Has anyone compare the 
  
 Bitfrost 4490 or Multibit + Asgard 2 or higher amp against the Deckard from Audeze? 
  
 I am heavily leaning towards the Deckard.


----------



## albertH

johnjen said:


> As long as you have performed a COMPLETE (as in all peripherals as well) shutdown (and remained off for ≈ 30 secs) and you still are having problems then Zapp yer pram, and if you have DiskWarrior run it as well.
> 
> JJ


 

 Thanks for the suggestions. I tried both and neither seemed to have done anything. It's definitely something with my computer, but no idea what.


----------



## albertH

merrick said:


> Have you tried connecting the DAC to a USB 2.0 hub and connecting the hub to the Mac Pro?


 

 Thanks for the tip, unfortunately I tried that as well and have had no luck.


----------



## johnjen

alberth said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I tried both and neither seemed to have done anything. It's definitely something with my computer, but no idea what.



Do you have 2 bootable drives?

If so, try one with the 'old' OS and the other with the new OS.

So reboot from one to the other, same setup just different OS's

That should tell you if it’s a hardware problem.

And now you know why it's called el Crapitan…
It reminds me of System 7 in the really 'old' days

JJ


----------



## oAmadeuso

alberth said:


> Hopefully someone likes a good brain teaser.
> 
> Bought a Mac Pro (Darth Vader garbage can model) running Mavericks and happily used my Modi/Vali setup with if for the last couple of years, no issues. Thought I would make the leap and upgrade to El Capitan. After the upgrade my computer would not recognize the DAC at all (LED light on the Modi would come on) otherwise would not show up in the system anywhere as being connected. Thinking it was the OS, I wiped the HD and reinstalled Mavericks so I was back to where I started. However the Modi still won't show up. I've tried a variety of different USB cables, port, hubs, etc... nothing.
> 
> Any ideas?


 
 A quick google has thrown up a lot of people with the same problem since upgrading to El Capitan.
 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7253452?tstart=0
  
 I would guess that this also makes a firmware update to the hardware which is why downgrading hasn't fixed it.
  
 Suggest looking on the Apple forums for a fix.


----------



## albertH

johnjen said:


> Do you have 2 bootable drives?
> 
> If so, try one with the 'old' OS and the other with the new OS.
> 
> ...


 

 I do have backup bootable drives, but both did no recognize the Modi at all. El Crapitan indeed.


----------



## Maconi

I had an issue with my Yggdrasil/Ragnarok that took me a few minutes to work through. I static shocked my headphones (while plugged into the stack) and instantly lost the entire left channel. Turning everything off and back on did nothing. I started to think I blew the left transducer in my headphones (Audeze, wouldn't be the first time). Thankfully I thought to discharge all the power from the Ygg/Rag (turn them off, unplug them, then them on/off while unplugged, plug them back on, turn them back on) which resolved the issue.
  
 So if you ever have any issues, be sure you unplug them and turn them on/off while unplugged (that should drain whatever residual power is left in the capacitors and what not).


----------



## Aciel

Hi all,
  
 I'm new to Head-Fi. I've never been into cans before (recovering audiophile from back in the day) and decided to give them a try. I moved from the UK a few years ago to the States and sold all of my gear....Naim, Nad, Arcam, B&W etc and bought a junky old Linn Majik int amp, a Thorens TD-165 and a pair of bookshelf KEF Q100's and later added a Teac UD-501, fed by up to date Mac Mini that I only use for music. in short I hate it and will be replacing the speakers and amp later this year.
  
 However I miss my music and thought I'd give a headphone setup a go. After lurking and reading here on HF I just ordered a Schiit Vali 2, SMSL M8 and am in the drop for the AKG K7XX and will be hooking it up to my Imac 5K for a source. My question is: Is it a good pairing or a recipe for disappointment? I'm not going to break the bank on this little venture and am looking for a cheap way to start a new obsession before I get the bug and invest more money in to it. Thanks for your opinions!
  
 Sorry if this is the wrong thread...I added it here because of the Vali 2.


----------



## albertH

oamadeuso said:


> A quick google has thrown up a lot of people with the same problem since upgrading to El Capitan.
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7253452?tstart=0
> 
> I would guess that this also makes a firmware update to the hardware which is why downgrading hasn't fixed it.
> ...


 

 This makes sense since downgrading the Os is doing nothing.
  
 AppleCare told me that since my USB ports are working fine with other devices that it is probably the Modi. And that it's the third party manufacturers problem to deal with. So all in all not helpful.
  
 I basically have Apple telling me it's Schiit's issue, and **** telling me it's Apple's issue. So i'm now just confused.
  
 I doubt Schiit will want to look into this since the Modi is no longer for sale (don't blame them). Just kind of sucks that I might have to buy a new DAC after a couple of years because of this. Not sure it's worth investing more time into a seemingly dead end, although I might be singing a different tune if I had anything other than the $99 Modi. I'd be fuming if I had the likes of a Bifrost or Gungnir.


----------



## sheldaze

aciel said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to Head-Fi. I've never been into cans before (recovering audiophile from back in the day) and decided to give them a try. I moved from the UK a few years ago to the States and sold all of my gear....Naim, Nad, Arcam, B&W etc and bought a junky old Linn Majik int amp, a Thorens TD-165 and a pair of bookshelf KEF Q100's and later added a Teac UD-501, fed by up to date Mac Mini that I only use for music. in short I hate it and will be replacing the speakers and amp later this year.
> 
> ...


 
 Vali 2 and AKG K7XX sound good to my ears!
 I'm unfamiliar with the source...hopefully someone else can chime in on that.


----------



## Aciel

Thanks. I think they are the important parts of the equation as I have read the M8 is pretty neutral and the Imac is just supplying the zero's and ones. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't made an epic mistake as I did the one thing we should never do and bought them without ever hearing them!


----------



## sheldaze

aciel said:


> Thanks. I think they are the important parts of the equation as I have read the M8 is pretty neutral and the Imac is just supplying the zero's and ones. I just wanted to make sure I hadn't made an epic mistake as I did the one thing we should never do and bought them without ever hearing them!


 
 Sorry...forgot to mention, welcome to Head-Fi and sorry for your wallet. But I suspect you understand the wallet part, having a history with speakers, I assume? Me too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'd also add that the Vali 2 responds well to different tubes. So if you want to change the sound a little, have at it! And cheaply too being just the one tube. I think there are two Vali 2 threads you can look to for advice.


----------



## Aciel

Thanks for the welcome! Yeah I know both the financial pain and sonic delights of buying speakers  I started my old system when I was 16 and that was eh' hem quite a few years ago. I'm pretty excited to roll some tubes into the Vali 2 and will check out the other threads. My wallet has survived a teenage daughter with a Hot Topic  addiction so far, so I'm okay with my modest investment (modest by hifi standards anyway)


----------



## artur9

alberth said:


> AppleCare told me that since my USB ports are working fine with other devices that it is probably the Modi.


 
 Can you hook the Modi up to something else?  If the Modi is still working fine then we can concentrate our fire on the Mac.
  
 Can you see the Modi in the "About this Mac..."?
  
 Normal Mac stuff:
 Reset parameter ram.
 Try different USB port/cable.


----------



## albertH

artur9 said:


> Can you hook the Modi up to something else?  If the Modi is still working fine then we can concentrate our fire on the Mac.
> 
> Can you see the Modi in the "About this Mac..."?
> 
> ...


 

 I have tried everything you mentioned and have had no luck. Other than the little LED on the front, my mac has made no signs of recognizing the device, neither in system preferences or the system information. 
  
 as oAmadeuso mentioned earlier on the thread the software update most likely also included a firmware update to the chipset, which isn't compatible with the Modi. I do have an older Macbook Pro which works perfectly with the DAC, although it is old enough that it has not received any firmware updates for a while.
  
 I've been told that the Modi2 doesn't have these inconsistencies with newer Macs, so i've ordered one to test it out.


----------



## Mumbles06

Anybody notice a sound difference with their Vali 2/Modi2U stack when changing input types?  I've read Baldr's posts about hating USB, which I have been running to my Modi2U for a while, and it occured to me last night that my motherboard may have an optical (toslink) output.  I decided to crawl behind my desk with a flashlight last night and sure enough, there's an optical out.  So I went to my big bucket of wires and cables in my office closet and pulled out a 2M Toslink cable and hooked it up to my Modi 2U.  After a few struggles with drivers, I have my stack hooked up on both USB and Toslink and they both work great.  I know that Toslink should sound better being that there are no packets with timings to screw up and such, but I have to admit, I think the USB sounds a touch better.  The toslink sounds a touch thinner than the USB.  Has anyone else tried this and had similar findings?


----------



## GrouchoMarx1933

I went from USB to RCA coax on my Bimby and it improved the sound noticeably. Optical has its own set of issues.


----------



## D Smith

After changing to El Capitan on my Mac I've had similar problems with my original Modi of not being recognized by the computer.  What worked for me (at least for now) was to do an SMC reset on the computer. The Modi showed up normally after that.  Don't know if this will work for anyone else obviously or how long this fix will last.


----------



## kevitivity

I recently got a Schiit Vali 2 to place on my nightstand.  I like to wind down in the evenings listening to my classical albums.  I'm very impressed with it. It's used with my iPhone and 80 ohm closed back headphones.


----------



## albertH

d smith said:


> After changing to El Capitan on my Mac I've had similar problems with my original Modi of not being recognized by the computer.  What worked for me (at least for now) was to do an SMC reset on the computer. The Modi showed up normally after that.  Don't know if this will work for anyone else obviously or how long this fix will last.


 

 Unfortunately this did not work for me. Do you have a newer mac? I'm still of the belief the El Capitan update did some sort of chipset update I cannot undue.


----------



## SuperU

alberth said:


> Unfortunately this did not work for me. Do you have a newer mac? I'm still of the belief the El Capitan update did some sort of chipset update I cannot undue.


 
 I have a new Mac Pro with the latest OS. It works fine for me.


----------



## D Smith

to AlbertH:

 I have a 2012 Mac Mini. I agree that El Capitan is the culprit as that is when I started having problems. Perhaps it affected different computers in different ways.


----------



## sheldaze

I was under the assumption that the issue was specific to the original Modi?
 I have that generation of Mac mini, though connected to a Yggdrasil - no issues.


----------



## albertH

superu said:


> I have a new Mac Pro with the latest OS. It works fine for me.


 

 Thanks for letting me know. Although it now only adds confusion as to why someone with the same system as me is having no issues?


----------



## albertH

d smith said:


> to AlbertH:
> 
> I have a 2012 Mac Mini. I agree that El Capitan is the culprit as that is when I started having problems. Perhaps it affected different computers in different ways.


 

 It most likely does, but neither side has any idea what's going on unfortunately.


----------



## bilbo6209

I'm the proud new owner of a Modi 2 Uber, Vali2, and mid 60's US Made Amperex 7308 PQ... WOW it sounds GREAT! Not a hiss to be had in my Shure Se535's 
  
 I don't know what brand the stock tube it only had a stylized box around the tube type, I'm at work and don't remember exactly what the model was except it was a known number but with an A after the number.
  
 My Modi 2 Uber was "B" stock but the only blemish I could find was a tiny spot on the front lower corner where something during the machining process touched the metal and made a bit of the brushed finish smooth. The blemish is TINY and took me a couple minutes to find!
  
 The sound stage  is huge on the Amperex tube vs the Stock, and there is more, I guess you would call it sparkle in the highs.... Listening to Hotel California (live off  Hell Freezes Over) there is a symbol crash toward the beginning and with the stock tube it sounded good but kinda short, with the Amperex you should hear the symbol ringing a lot longer and much more clear.


----------



## LepakVT

I just placed an order for my very first Schiit product (Bifrost Multibit) and I got an order confirmation at 12:19, followed by an e-mail that my order has shipped at 12:23! Is this real / is this normal???! Especially surprising since the Schiit website said the Bifrost Multibit was backordered until the week of March 1st.
  
 (Sorry if this the wrong thread, I know the Bifrost is a DAC and not an amp  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## SuperU

alberth said:


> Thanks for letting me know. Although it now only adds confusion as to why someone with the same system as me is having no issues?


 
 Oops, I apologize, I do not have the Modi. I have a Shiit stack that works great, but not the same as you mentioned. Sorry.


----------



## bilbo6209

lepakvt said:


> I just placed an order for my very first Schiit product (Bifrost Multibit) and I got an order confirmation at 12:19, followed by an e-mail that my order has shipped at 12:23! Is this real / is this normal???! Especially surprising since the Schiit website said the Bifrost Multibit was backordered until the week of March 1st.
> 
> (Sorry if this the wrong thread, I know the Bifrost is a DAC and not an amp
> 
> ...


 
 Yes this is very normal for Schiit!!!
  
 If you look up Jason Stoddard's blog on here apparent it explains why they do this, I have started the blog but haven't gotten to that part yet


----------



## albertH

superu said:


> Oops, I apologize, I do not have the Modi. I have a Shiit stack that works great, but not the same as you mentioned. Sorry.


 

 Still begs the question, what exactly is the Modi missing that is causing it not to show up in the first place?


----------



## bilbo6209

sorry I'm at work and didn't read the entire 775 pages so I'm not 100% if this was tried, but I just installed a Modi 2 uber last night and had to go to http://schiit.com/drivers and download the driver pack. If you are on a Modi gen 1 I don't see a driver listed, maybe they don't have them on the webpage anymore?


----------



## albertH

bilbo6209 said:


> sorry I'm at work and didn't read the entire 775 pages so I'm not 100% if this was tried, but I just installed a Modi 2 uber last night and had to go to http://schiit.com/drivers and download the driver pack. If you are on a Modi gen 1 I don't see a driver listed, maybe they don't have them on the webpage anymore?


 

 I'm on a mac, as far as i can tell they never had drivers for the Modi. I do wonder if they had one if it would solve my problem though?


----------



## bilbo6209

alberth said:


> I'm on a mac, as far as i can tell they never had drivers for the Modi. I do wonder if they had one if it would solve my problem though?


 
 they don't list it on the schiit site, but inside the Win8, 7, XP driver zip there is an _MacOS folder and files under it. (Sorry I cant test as I don't have a MAC)


----------



## albertH

bilbo6209 said:


> they don't list it on the schiit site, but inside the Win8, 7, XP driver zip there is an _MacOS folder and files under it. (Sorry I cant test as I don't have a MAC)


 
  
 Those are just resource forks Mac OS X stores when it makes a zip file. I'm assuming whomever originally zipped the drivers on Schiit's site did so using a Mac. I got all excited for a moment.


----------



## Defiant00

bilbo6209 said:


> they don't list it on the schiit site, but inside the Win8, 7, XP driver zip there is an _MacOS folder and files under it. (Sorry I cant test as I don't have a MAC)


 
  
 Couple things. First, the original Modi doesn't need drivers on Mac or PC, as it is USB Audio Class 1 (which even Windows has proper support for). Macs also support USB Audio Class 2 natively, which is what all of Schiit's higher-end DACs use, and which is why they do not have or need Mac drivers.


----------



## bilbo6209

defiant00 said:


> Couple things. First, the original Modi doesn't need drivers on Mac or PC, as it is USB Audio Class 1 (which even Windows has proper support for). Macs also support USB Audio Class 2 natively, which is what all of Schiit's higher-end DACs use, and which is why they do not have or need Mac drivers.


 
 Thank you Defiant I was not aware of that on MACs, I stopped supporting them  8+ years ago


----------



## SHFT

Today was a good day, received my Valhalla 2, plugged in the tubes and suddenly we had a general power outage, just my luck...
  
 However, power has been restored and I have been listening for about an hour, the source at the moment is my Fiio X3 and the HE-300 as cans.
 It already sounds way better than my integrated amp. I'll receive my phonostage (Cambridge Audio CP2) by the end of the week and I can hook up my turntable (Pro-Ject Debut III Carbon). Which will be the main setup.
  
 I read a lot about 'breaking in' the amp and even it is only a 1% improvement, I will be very very impressed with this thing!


----------



## Mumbles06

I own a Modi 2 U, Vali 2, and Mani, and love all my Schiit!  I have an idea for a new amp and I know Jason doesn't respond to PMs so I figured I'd post my totally unsolicited idea for all to critique.
  
 I dabble in guitar playing and I downsized my equipment a few years ago, and I settled with an Egnater Rebel 20 for my amp.  It's all tube, with 3 12AX7s for its preamp stage, but it's power tube stage is where it's interesting.  It has one 6V6 for a good American style sound and one EL84 for a British style sound.  Whats neat and innovative about this amp is that there is a rotary dial on the front of the amp (in addition to the EQ and gain) that allows you to dial in one tube and dial out the other, so one end of the dial completely bypasses the 6V6 and gives you a British sound, and the other end does the opposite, with everything in between being a mix between the two.  This works awesome in guitar amplification applications.
  
 My idea is to take this concept and apply it to headphone amping.  You could have a tube with sparkling treble and great detail retrieval paired with a tube that adds bass extension and thump and blend the two together.  Or maybe it would totally suck, I'm not an electrical engineer, but it seems like a concept that doesn't exist in the headphone amping world to my knowledge.
  
 Just an idea.  Thoughts?


----------



## RickB

TIL there is an American guitar sound and a British guitar sound.


----------



## dagum

Just pulled the trigger for my first Schiit product (Argard 2.0). Please to join the unite.


----------



## sheldaze

dagum said:


> Just pulled the trigger for my first Schiit product (Argard 2.0). Please to join the unite.


 
 Great amplifier - it will provide you much long-term pleasure on a wide variety of headphones.
 Welcome to da' club!


----------



## MtnMan307

I just ordered a Vali 2 two days ago for my first headphone amp. First Schiit product too and first tube amplifier.


----------



## Matro5

congrats @MtnMan307
  
 that Vali 2 should be awesome. 
  
 I just added a Modi 2 Uber for my 2 channel system. It'll end up in my office system eventually, but I think it'll sound great even in my main rig for the time being.


----------



## MtnMan307

I wonder how much difference in sound there is between the basic Modi 2 and the Uber.  I just have the Realtek onboard sound in my computer for now.


----------



## tafens

I have the M2U stack and a pair of HD600 on the way. I read over in the Vali2 thread that the sound of the HD600 would improve on high gain. I feel a bit confused as I thought the only difference on high gain would be the volume.

So my question is; will there be an improvement to the SQ of the HD600 with the Magni2U on high gain instead of on low gain?


----------



## Mumbles06

I can speak for the Magni 2U, but I'm running my Vali2 into my RS1e's right now (burning in the new cans) and the high gain mode makes everything sound fuller to me.  The low gain didn't sound bad, but the high gain is where it's at for me, but that's a different set of cans and amp, so YMMV significantly.


----------



## Axiomatik

Is there anyplace that sells the Schiit stack as a combo? Looking for an Magni & Vali 2


----------



## Billheiser

tafens said:


> I have the M2U stack and a pair of HD600 on the way. I read over in the Vali2 thread that the sound of the HD600 would improve on high gain. I feel a bit confused as I thought the only difference on high gain would be the volume.
> 
> So my question is; will there be an improvement to the SQ of the HD600 with the Magni2U on high gain instead of on low gain?



Sound will be equally good, but the hd600 will need the high gain


----------



## pocahontas

Hi guys, i'm new and i got some questions. Who have a good motherboard with shield iem protection,ALC1150  and can compare to his Schiit setup objectivly?
 Does it sound better? Have a nice day  (quote my post for better sav )


----------



## madwolfa

axiomatik said:


> Is there anyplace that sells the Schiit stack as a combo? Looking for an Magni & Vali 2


 
  
 www.schiit.com


----------



## Designer79

tafens said:


> I have the M2U stack and a pair of HD600 on the way. I read over in the Vali2 thread that the sound of the HD600 would improve on high gain. I feel a bit confused as I thought the only difference on high gain would be the volume.
> 
> So my question is; will there be an improvement to the SQ of the HD600 with the Magni2U on high gain instead of on low gain?


 
  
 With the HD600 300Ω impedance they should be driven definitely in high gain. I am running 250Ω cans with the Vali 2 and subjectively the SQ is better on high gain, it feels like the highs open up a bit more. ​


----------



## disastermouse

My only Schiit product before recently was the original Magni. I switched it out for a Garage Polaris and listened to it for a while with my old DAC (MSii+) before finally breaking down and getting the BiMBy.
  
 I now think Yggdrasil is my end game DAC.


----------



## pocahontas

pocahontas said:


> Hi guys, i'm new and i got some questions. Who have a good motherboard with shield iem protection,ALC1150  and can compare to his Schiit setup objectivly?
> Does it sound better? Have a nice day  (quote my post for better sav )


 
  
  
 Back to an other question: Lots of people compare high end soundcard like the STX II vs the schiit stack. In the end, i think the DAC are basicaly of the same quality.
 But the integrated amp of the STX is not very good. Good for some headphone but bad for low impedance ones if i'm not mistaken. And people just say over it "drivers sucks and even with protections, it's still in a "dangerous" place and can not stop every parasites.
  
 But if the STX II which does have better specs than the ALC1150 is the "same" in regard of the DAC, i do think (logicaly) that's the mod2 is better than the ALC1150..(??).
  
 And an other thing bother me a lot, i'm sorry for not knowing so much on this subject, but an integrated codecs and a sound card does have a SNB value.
 A very "marketed" value. The best integrated onboard is at this optimal performance "115db SNR" and for the soundcard it's never more than 124 if i'm not mistaken.
  
 But this value... i don't see it on the Schiit or ODAC products? WHERE is the "Signal-to-noise ratio" of a DAC? is it the equivalent of the "Dynamic Range (A-Weighted)" you can find on odac specs? but the magni 2 is "> >104dB " (when the odac is 112) so it's inferior to an optimal integrated onboard dac and it even more compared to 124dB soundcard.


----------



## MarcelE

IMO the signal to noise ratio is a non-issue with Schiit's DACs.
 Never noticed any noise.


----------



## pocahontas

Ok, and how does the others stats does compare?


----------



## imackler

Quick question, guys: Can I tell whether a Bifrost has the AKM4399 from the label on the outside of the case? 
  
Thanks!


----------



## Torq

pocahontas said:


> Ok, and how does the others stats does compare?


 

 You can't reduce it to simply "stats".
  
 If we went on spec, the highly integrated chipsets, like the ALC-1150, with their heavy software-augmentation are likely to always claim better performance.  Whether the *implementation*, in a given system or motherboard, ever approaches that theoretical spec is another matter entirely.  In most cases, they don't ... too much else going on that isn't properly remedied with a bit of tin slapped around the audio circuits.
  
 It'd be like comparing the parts-cost of the ALC-1150 chipset to a decent modern 2-channel DAC chip with on-board filtering.  Looked at from that perspective, you'd expect the 2-channel DAC to significantly outperform something like the ALC-1150 since it's implementing FAR less functionality at the same, or lower, price point (I think the ALC-1150 has 10 DACs, 2 ADCs, multiple amps and all sorts of other stuff on board ... vs. 2 DACs and a couple or so filters).
  
 However, the "proof" is in the listening ...
  
 I haven't heard any on-board audio chipset, ALC-1150 included, that I preferred over the entry-level Schiit products.  Whether that's down to the hardware itself or an effect of the morass of Windows-Audio nonsense riding on top of it, I don't know.  Now, that's not MY system ... but it is a system I'm pretty familiar with - and it's owner would take the Schiit gear over the on-board stuff, or his more recently acquired higher-end sound-card when it comes to listening to music.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Greetings All,
  
 I just found this thread and am a proud owner of a Valhalla 2 & Bifrost (not multibit).  The Val runs stock tubes and the Bifrost is connected to my PC via USB.  Between my ears and the electronics sit a pair of HD700's.  I gotta say I love the setup which is only a couple months old.  Being an apartment dweller and computer geek, I spend most of my waking time in front of the keyboard and the bass from my subwoofer can easily punch through the paper walls of the apartment.  So, in trying to be a good neighbor, I'm doing a LOT more headphone listening and I don't think it's a compromise at all.  I'm definitely glad I found out about all this Schiit!


----------



## bilbo6209

WOW!!!
  
 I have had my Vali2 and Modi 2 Uber stack for about a week now 
  
 I am running a Vintage Amperex 7308 USA made tube and pushing a set of Shure Se 535 IEMs, playing primarily high bit FLAC files through VLC on my PC... All I can say is Im in love this is by far the best set up I have had to date!!
  
 My only issue (and was why I thought my Aune combo amp and DAC was bad) is that for some reason my USB port is turning off at random times, but I am playing with different power settings on the PC to try to fix this. I will be a Shiit customer for quiet some time!!!


----------



## MtnMan307

I was still at work today when my Vali 2 showed up, so I will have to go to FedEx and pick it up later.  I'm excited to listen to some Schiit finally!


----------



## albertH

I've enjoyed my Modi/Vali setup with my T90's for well over a year now and am looking to upgrade. Wondering if anyone here has went specifically from the Vali to the Valhalla 2? Just curious if the difference is worth the price tag.
  
 I'm also looking at the Asgard 2, but I like the warmth of tubes, especially since the T90's could use it.


----------



## h2rulz

In the same boat


alberth said:


> I've enjoyed my Modi/Vali setup with my T90's for well over a year now and am looking to upgrade. Wondering if anyone here has went specifically from the Vali to the Valhalla 2? Just curious if the difference is worth the price tag.
> 
> I'm also looking at the Asgard 2, but I like the warmth of tubes, especially since the T90's could use it.


 

 Pretty much in the same boat. I was very pleased with my Vali 2 (mullard 7DJ8)/Modi 2 uber stack, until I heard the Valhalla 2/Bifrost at a recent local meet. I really enjoyed what I heard there. The sound stage was huge compared to the Vali 2. I bit the bullet and purchased a Valhalla 2 from a fellow head-fi member.
  
 I'm hoping to recreate the same sound. Although, I do have to upgrade to a bifrost as well.


----------



## albertH

h2rulz said:


> In the same boat
> 
> Pretty much in the same boat. I was very pleased with my Vali 2 (mullard 7DJ8)/Modi 2 uber stack, until I heard the Valhalla 2/Bifrost at a recent local meet. I really enjoyed what I heard there. The sound stage was huge compared to the Vali 2. I bit the bullet and purchased a Valhalla 2 from a fellow head-fi member.
> 
> I'm hoping to recreate the same sound. Although, I do have to upgrade to a bifrost as well.


 

 Thanks for the info. So is the Valhalla 2/modi 2 soundstage working well for you? what are your primary cans for the setup?


----------



## h2rulz

alberth said:


> Thanks for the info. So is the Valhalla 2/modi 2 soundstage working well for you? what are your primary cans for the setup?


 
 I just made the purchase recently. The Valhalla 2 will be here Monday.
  
 As for my impressions from the local meet, the main thing I noticed was increased sound stage. Other subtleties were harder to make out as it was a noisy room, but sounded similar enough (I love the sound of the Vali 2) if not better. Luckily, the Valhalla 2 was paired with an X2, which happens to be my go to head phone at home.
  
 However, I do look forward to how they sound with my HE400s and HD650 as well.
 Will see in a few days if the modi 2 uber can keep up with the bifrost.


----------



## Billheiser

h2rulz said:


> I just made the purchase recently. The Valhalla 2 will be here Monday.
> 
> As for my impressions from the local meet, the main thing I noticed was increased sound stage. Other subtleties were harder to make out as it was a noisy room, but sounded similar enough (I love the sound of the Vali 2) if not better. Luckily, the Valhalla 2 was paired with an X2, which happens to be my go to head phone at home.
> 
> ...


 

 Were you at the recent Annandale, VA meet?  I was there with equipment including Bifrost/Valhalla 2, and X2, so you may have heard that.  If so, glad you enjoyed it!


----------



## h2rulz

billheiser said:


> Were you at the recent Annandale, VA meet?  I was there with equipment including Bifrost/Valhalla 2, and X2, so you may have heard that.  If so, glad you enjoyed it!




Yes!
I loved your X2 and Valhalla 2 so much that I had to upgrade my Vali2 immediately. 
Thanks for the setup, although my wallet probably doesn't thank you as much 

Btw, which Bifrost do you have?


----------



## Billheiser

h2rulz said:


> Yes!
> I loved your X2 and Valhalla 2 so much that I had to upgrade my Vali2 immediately.
> Thanks for the setup, although my wallet probably doesn't thank you as much
> 
> ...


 

 Excellent! My Bifrost is the Multi-bit.
  
 You'll love your HD650 on the Valhalla 2, too, very good synergy there.


----------



## GoodGucciGoo

I have a Vali 2, but the volume knob goes from like 5 to 10 o'clock. Is there a way to fix it?


----------



## h2rulz

billheiser said:


> Excellent! My Bifrost is the Multi-bit.
> 
> You'll love your HD650 on the Valhalla 2, too, very good synergy there.


 
  
 Just got my Valhalla 2 and its amazing.
 And wow, the HD650 does really open up with the Valhalla 2.
 I always used the X2 as my main headphone, but that could change now.
  
 Loving them both with the Valhalla 2 very much!


----------



## Bonobo Loco

I'm not an owner (yet) but I could use a bit of advnce. I have a pair of Senn HD650's and Grado GH1's and have been running them straight from my macbook pro, but lately I've been looking for a good amp/dac setup and am leaning toward the Bifrost/Lyr2 combo. I'm just wondering if I would need anything else to get it up and running from my computer... I guess these units have no USB ports so I'm just not really sure how to get the sound from the computer to the Schiit stack. I know, total noob question but hopefully someone will humor me. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Billheiser

bonobo loco said:


> I'm not an owner (yet) but I could use a bit of advnce. I have a pair of Senn HD650's and Grado GH1's and have been running them straight from my macbook pro, but lately I've been looking for a good amp/dac setup and am leaning toward the Bifrost/Lyr2 combo. I'm just wondering if I would need anything else to get it up and running from my computer... I guess these units have no USB ports so I'm just not really sure how to get the sound from the computer to the Schiit stack. I know, total noob question but hopefully someone will humor me. Thanks in advance.



Yes to USB. Plug a USB cable between the computer and the Bifrost. Bifrost also accepts optical or coaxial digital inputs too. 
Bifrost to the Lyr2: uses standard interconnects with RCA jacks.


----------



## Billheiser

Note also that your USB cable should be the usual "type A" connector at the computer end, and a "type B" connector on the DAC end. 
(Like a printer cable)


----------



## Bonobo Loco

Cool, thx


----------



## h2rulz

Stop me if I'm crazy..
  
 Is stacking the Valhalla 2 on top of an Asgard 2 a bad idea?


----------



## Rudiger

IMO it's ok
  
  
 Edit : shiit's response about this in this post


----------



## superjawes

h2rulz said:


> Stop me if I'm crazy..
> 
> Is stacking the Valhalla 2 on top of an Asgard 2 a bad idea?


Both use their chassis as a heatsink, and both are class A. You're probably fine as long as you A) only use one amp at a time, or B) make sure to use feet to create some separation between each chassis.


----------



## h2rulz

superjawes said:


> Both use their chassis as a heatsink, and both are class A. You're probably fine as long as you A) only use one amp at a time, or B) make sure to use feet to create some separation between each chassis.




Thanks for the inputs!
Good to know I wasn't too crazy 

Would the feets schiit provides create enough space, or would you recommend using something else with more height?
Say 3/8" or 1/2"?


----------



## oAmadeuso

h2rulz said:


> Thanks for the inputs!
> Good to know I wasn't too crazy
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Make of it what you will but I stack a Lyr 2 on top of the Bifrost using the supplied feet and have had no issues and that lyr gets pretty toasty.


----------



## h2rulz

oamadeuso said:


> Make of it what you will but I stack a Lyr 2 on top of the Bifrost using the supplied feet and have had no issues and that lyr gets pretty toasty.



 
Yeah, if it were the Bifrost, I'd be less concerned.
The Valhalla 2 and Asgard 2 are known to get pretty toasty, it's even stated in the Schiit website.
 
But, it seems like I'm being overly concerned. I'll just get a little taller feet for the stack than what Schiit ships with.


----------



## MarcelE

Are the standard feet resistant to the heat?
 Wouldn't they melt?
 I have an Modi2Uber and an Asgard 2 and till now I've put the dac next to the amp, but would be nicer to put on top.
 But am afraid the plastic feet would melt.


----------



## JohnBal

h2rulz said:


> Stop me if I'm crazy..
> 
> Is stacking the Valhalla 2 on top of an Asgard 2 a bad idea?


 
 I would not stack anything on my Asgard 2. No way. Too warm. But that's just me...


----------



## rgmffn

johnbal said:


> I would not stack anything on my Asgard 2. No way. Too warm. But that's just me...


 

 I wouldn't either. That A2 gets really hot.  It needs more air space on top than that I'd say. At least more than with the included little rubber feet.  At the minimum I'd like to have at least an inch spacing on top. The best thing to do might be to ask Schiit though.


----------



## Billheiser

DAC on bottom, amp on top. All good


----------



## rgmffn

billheiser said:


> DAC on bottom, amp on top. All good


 

 Agreed, but there's not a DAC in the stack.  He wants to put it under a Valhalla 2. Schiit has always claimed that the heat is not a problem, but I think the case has to have room to breathe.


----------



## Rudiger

Just ask schiit...


----------



## h2rulz

Right, I should ask Schiit.


----------



## h2rulz

That was quick!
  
 Well, it's not recommended to stack the two if both will be powered at the same time.
 However, Nick did remind me that the Asgard can be used vertically. So that gives me a bit more option to play around with on my desk.
 As for the Valhalla, he didn't recommend using it vertically because of the risk for tube damage, which obviously won't be covered under warranty.


----------



## Axiomatik

So as of yesterday I purchased a modi 2/magni 2 uber off the head-fi classifieds. I'm excited to officially join the club!


----------



## ahmedreda

I have a Asgard 2 on order and I was wondering if there is anyway to connect it to the Iphone 6s, My understanding is that I need to bypass the amplification available through the headphone jack but I am not sure how to achieve that.


----------



## 520RanchBro

I have an SYS stacked on my A2 with a Modi2U on top of that. Maybe it's because I'm in a cooler basement and turn it off when I'm done listening but I have noticed no problems for the odd 6 months that I've had it like this.
  
 I might try turning the A2 on its side though, would free up some space on my desk.
  
  
 Anyone directly compare the Modi2U and Bifrost Multibit? Thinking of an upgrade but would like an idea of what improvements might be immediately noticeable. If it's not a very obvious improvement I think I'd be inclined to spend that money on guitar gear or a new cart and preamp for my TT.


----------



## sheldaze

520ranchbro said:


> I have an SYS stacked on my A2 with a Modi2U on top of that. Maybe it's because I'm in a cooler basement and turn it off when I'm done listening but I have noticed no problems for the odd 6 months that I've had it like this.
> 
> I might try turning the A2 on its side though, would free up some space on my desk.


 
 I used a similar stack. From bottom to top it went Bifrost 4490, Asgard 2, SYS, Vali 2. I had zero issues leaving both Asgard 2 and Vali 2 on. I stacked it that way on purpose to compare the sound, and had no intention of turning one off while the other was on.


----------



## Supa Mint

520ranchbro said:


> ....
> Anyone directly compare the Modi2U and Bifrost Multibit? Thinking of an upgrade but would like an idea of what improvements might be immediately noticeable. ...


 
  
 There's some comments about Multibit in this thread:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/643368/schiit-modi-and-magni-comparison-to-bifrost-and-asgard


----------



## Billheiser

ahmedreda said:


> I have a Asgard 2 on order and I was wondering if there is anyway to connect it to the Iphone 6s, My understanding is that I need to bypass the amplification available through the headphone jack but I am not sure how to achieve that.



Yes; get a "line out" dock, so you are getting the non-volume controlled output from the iPhone. Then connect the appropriate cable between the dock and the amp.


----------



## Topspin70

Any news regarding new products or did I missed it in another Schiit thread?


----------



## Billheiser

topspin70 said:


> Any news regarding new products or did I missed it in another Schiit thread?



You really missed it. First saw the news in the Wall Street Journal. Amazing, tragic news, and the sexual scandal was shocking. Especially given the number of people involved. Smh.


----------



## Topspin70

billheiser said:


> You really missed it. First saw the news in the Wall Street Journal. Amazing, tragic news, and the sexual scandal was shocking. Especially given the number of people involved. Smh.


 

 Sounds like just any other day in today's world. That secretive, non-digital thingamajig that Schiit's been working on. Now that's headline. If it ever gets announced.


----------



## Pahani

I'm new to hi-fi, only getting started in the last 4-6 months. I'm TRYING TO ease myself gently into it, but seem to keep spending money every time I turn around 
  
  
 Headphones:
 Sennheiser PC350SE.....just horrible.
 Philips SHP-9500 (2 pairs, 1 stock and 1 modded) Started here in my audio quest, based on reviews from Z Reviews and InnerFidelity
 AKG K7XX
 Philips X2 (my current everyday go-to)
 Fostex TH-X00 (do not own yet, but I've made up my mind these will be my next purchase)
  
  
 Amps/DACs:
 SMSL SD-793II (could never get this to work on either my PC or laptop)
 OPPO HA-2 (my first GOOD DAC/Amp, I still love it but it has been relegated to portable duty paired with my phone or laptop)
 Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Magni 2 Uber (my current PC-connected gear)
 Schiit Wyrd USB conditioner (does it do anything? Schiit themselves kinda shrug, but purchased it anyway for peace of mind that my signal path is as pure as possible)
  
  
 My PC is one I built myself in the latter part of 2014
 Intel Core i7 4790K "Devil's Canyon" no overclock
 ASUS Maximus VII Formula
 G.Skill 32GB 2400MHz RAM (XMP set in BIOS)
 Noctua NH-D15 CPU cooler
 Samsung 840 Evo 1TB SSD
 Seagate 2TB hybrid SSHD storage drive
 Corsair AX860i PSU
 2X EVGA GTX780 SC 6GB in SLI
 LG 34UM95-P 21:9 Ultrawide monitor 3440X1440
  
  
 My next project will be a NAS. I have my CDs ripped to MP3 on my PC, but of course this is unacceptable  Once I have a NAS, I will painstakingly rip all my CDs to FLAC, as well as archiving all my DVDs.
  
 I purchased Schiit because they appeared to me to be good audio quality, fair pricing, pleasing if minimilistic design, and of course MADE IN USA!


----------



## jeremy205100

pahani said:


> I'm new to hi-fi, only getting started in the last 4-6 months. I'm TRYING TO ease myself gently into it, but seem to keep spending money every time I turn around
> 
> 
> Headphones:
> ...


 

 That's an impressive computer!


----------



## Rudiger

Hello,
 I allows me to also post here the message I posted last night on the Polaris forum.
  
Hi people, I think I need help, I spent an evening to go crazy!
  
> To summarize : to go with my HE-560 and my Polaris I acquired the Bifrost 4490 last week. A very well renowned Dac. So I was very happy (expectation bias). Good sound, no ? ...But having the impression that something was not right, so I told myself it was time to change the amp (Polaris) ! Logic. So I ordered the Lyr 2 and several pairs of tubes (it should arrive within ten days).
This felt that something was wrong could not come from the Bifrost, right?
  
Ok, that was the summary ...
Now I have doubts (BUT ... ?)

> Tonight I had the bad idea to try the analog output of my loyal Dac Nad 2 to compare to my super renowed new Bifrost that smells good and give life more beautiful (and to be even more happy with my new acquisition ...).
Well... ahem... (with Polaris) I much prefer the Nad. Completely insane, isn't it ? With this one I less feel the need to change the amp ! The sound seems more rich and natural, has a 3D soundstage and there are more bass. By comparison the Bifrost seems flat and boring, with too less bass and lacking spatially details.
Either it's the Nad that is artificially flattering (that's a likely possibility) and I am not able to appreciate the good things OR the Bifrost is not so good. OR is it a mismatch, and _maybe with the Lyr the Bifrost will be better than the Nad_ ??? I hope this. (What do you think ?) 
The problem is that I have less than a week to return the Bifrost ... if I want to try it with the Lyr 2 I take a risk.
[Snip]
 (Oh, and I burn the Bifrost the entire  week)
  
 Tonight I'll compare my Modi 1 to the Bifrost 4490 to see what happens. And if Modi sounds more like the Nad than the Bifrost ...then it would mean that it a really "special" Dac....


----------



## Rudiger

Hello there, I post my conclusions in this post.


----------



## Mumbles06

Last night I pulled the trigger on an upgrade.  I bought a Gumby to upgrade my Modi2U.  So now I'm going to have a Gumby-->Vali2-->Grado RS1e/ZMF Omni.  I really love the sound of my Vali2 with my Genalex Gold Lion, and I have some other nice tubes stashed for it that sound great as well. My plan is to eventually upgrade to the Mojo2, but for now I really like my collection of single tubes, and I feel like when I upgrade they can't come with me because the won't be matched pairs if I buy more singles of the same tubes.  Does that sound like good logic or am I overthinking it?  Can I just by another Gold Lion or Phillips 6922 or RCA 6B7Z?  For the next few months at least I'm going to keep enjoying them in my Vali, but I'm wondering if I should start tube shopping for pairs now in anticipation.


----------



## tafens

Just wanted to share; My office setup, Modi2U & Magni2U, now completed with HD600 headphones.

Sounds fantastic 
(used HD590 headphones before)


----------



## smellster

New owner here as well, a young family has forced the move from very loud loudspeakers to very loud headphones.
  
 I've had a Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Multibit for about four weeks now, great service form Schiit Europe by the way.
  
 Mainly playing flacs through USB the setup has brought my HD650s alive which were struggling through a Fiio E17, in fact I rarely used  the HD650 with that DAC/Amp prefering my easier to drive D2000s and Q701.
  
 So happy customer, great design, great sound although I really don't appreciate being sucked into the crack house that is tube rolling.


----------



## Phishin Phool

smellster said:


> New owner here as well, a young family has forced the move from very loud loudspeakers to very loud headphones.
> 
> I've had a Valhalla 2 and Bifrost Multibit for about four weeks now, great service form Schiit Europe by the way.
> 
> ...




Just be careful and use common sense with your loud headphones. You want to enjoy your hearing for many years to come.


----------



## Mumbles06

My new addition to the stack (gumby) looks ridiculous, but it sounds GREAT!


----------



## sheldaze

mumbles06 said:


> My new addition to the stack (gumby) looks ridiculous, but it sounds GREAT!


 
 Funny because that is what I'm listening to right now


----------



## Flisker

Hello guys,
  
   could someone please share their opinion on what's best upgrade from Bifrost Uber - Lyr 2- LCD-3F ?

 I was thinking Bifrost Multibit or Gungnir Sigma Delta, but I'm not sure which one will work better. (Can't afford Gungnir Multibit)
  
 Thanks


----------



## sheldaze

flisker said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> could someone please share their opinion on what's best upgrade from Bifrost Uber - Lyr 2- LCD-3F ?
> 
> ...


 
 My vote is always in favor of Multibit over Sigma Delta.
 However, if you think you might, in future, upgrade the Gungnir to Multibit - just saying, you could certainly live with Sigma Delta for a few years, then patch it later...otherwise, go straight to the Bifrost Multibit.


----------



## Flisker

sheldaze said:


> My vote is always in favor of Multibit over Sigma Delta.
> However, if you think you might, in future, upgrade the Gungnir to Multibit - just saying, you could certainly live with Sigma Delta for a few years, then patch it later...otherwise, go straight to the Bifrost Multibit.


 
  
 Ah ok, thanks for feedback.

 Is there anything better on Gungnir except from being balanced DAC ? I mean If I don't use balanced amp will there be any difference between Bifrost Multibit and Gungnir Multibit ?


----------



## sheldaze

flisker said:


> Ah ok, thanks for feedback.
> 
> Is there anything better on Gungnir except from being balanced DAC ? I mean If I don't use balanced amp will there be any difference between Bifrost Multibit and Gungnir Multibit ?


 
 My speakers are pretty revealing, and I noticed a difference - this was using the single-ended outputs from the Bifrost and Gungnir after both were upgraded to Multibit.
 However there are threads where people have not noticed a difference. And if fact, it was noted that the speaker cables could make a Bifrost sound as good as the Gungnir - not my opinion, just noted here:
  
 Start reading the thread around post #42.
  
 I am sharing that there are multiple opinions. My opinion is still the Gungnir has a noticeably larger sound than the Bifrost in both dynamics and soundstage. They're both quite detailed and good sounding though.


----------



## Flisker

sheldaze said:


> My speakers are pretty revealing, and I noticed a difference - this was using the single-ended outputs from the Bifrost and Gungnir after both were upgraded to Multibit.
> However there are threads where people have not noticed a difference. And if fact, it was noted that the speaker cables could make a Bifrost sound as good as the Gungnir - not my opinion, just noted here:
> 
> Start reading the thread around post #42.


 
  
 That is great thread thanks for linking it !
  


sheldaze said:


> I am sharing that there are multiple opinions. My opinion is still the Gungnir has a noticeably larger sound than the Bifrost in both dynamics and soundstage. They're both quite detailed and good sounding though.


 

  
 You mean when compared both in Multibit or even Multibit Bifrost vs Sigma Delta Gungnir ?


----------



## sheldaze

flisker said:


> You mean when compared both in Multibit or even Multibit Bifrost vs Sigma Delta Gungnir ?


 
 Comparing both in Multibit.
  
 I actually acquired another DAC at the same time, which was reported to be the sonic sameness as the Delta Sigma version of the Gungnir - it was an Arcam irDAC. I found the differences between the two (Bifrost Multibit versus irDAC) a tossup - I liked some aspects of each DAC.


----------



## Flisker

sheldaze said:


> Comparing both in Multibit.
> 
> I actually acquired another DAC at the same time, which was reported to be the sonic sameness as the Delta Sigma version of the Gungnir - it was an Arcam irDAC. I found the differences between the two (Bifrost Multibit versus irDAC) a tossup - I liked some aspects of each DAC.


 
  
 Ah I see.

 Btw, Nick from Schiit Audio also recommended Bifrost Multibit so it's probably decided.
  


> I would go Bifrost Multi-Bit if you can’t go up to Gungnir Multi-Bit.
> Nick T
> Schiit Tech


----------



## sheldaze

flisker said:


> Ah I see.
> 
> Btw, Nick from Schiit Audio also recommended Bifrost Multibit so it's probably decided.


 
 One more quick thing,
  
 Had a meet this past weekend where a user owning a Modi 2 Uber was looking to upgrade. He was able to audition three generations of Bifrost - Uber, 4490, and Multibit. I forget his exact comments on the Uber, but it wasn't good. He noted that the 4490 added bass, but lost some other aspects of his Modi that he in fact liked. Only the Multibit seemed to be the straight path forward.
  
 One thing is for certain - Multibit sounds good


----------



## Flisker

sheldaze said:


> One more quick thing,
> 
> Had a meet this past weekend where a user owning a Modi 2 Uber was looking to upgrade. He was able to audition three generations of Bifrost - Uber, 4490, and Multibit. I forget his exact comments on the Uber, but it wasn't good. He noted that the 4490 added bass, but lost some other aspects of his Modi that he in fact liked. Only the Multibit seemed to be the straight path forward.
> 
> One thing is for certain - Multibit sounds good


 
  
 Heh, thanks ! That's very helpfull 

 So the upgrades goes 1st Gen Bifrost - Uber - 4490 - Multibit ? (I missed the 4490 wave so I'm not sure where does it fit)


----------



## madwolfa

flisker said:


> Heh, thanks ! That's very helpfull
> 
> So the upgrades goes 1st Gen Bifrost - Uber - 4490 - Multibit ? (I missed the 4490 wave so I'm not sure where does it fit)


 
  
 Basically 4490 replaced Uber in the lineup and original Bifrost was discontinued. And Multibit option added, of course.


----------



## lludson

I ordered a Schiit M2 and GMB three and a half days ago, and it still hasn't shipped, and I am getting a bit ticked off. How long have you guys had to wait? They had three full business days to ship it.
  
 I also ordered an Ether C at the same time and that shipped yesterday.
  
 Not exactly fast movers for the kind of dollars you throw at them. Not impressed so far...


----------



## Pete Schiller

I ordered my V2 and BMB early on a Monday morning (3/21) and they shipped it at 9:38 AM (California time) that same day.


----------



## lludson

Well. That's frustrating...
  
 Thx.


----------



## Torq

lludson said:


> I ordered a Schiit M2 and GMB three and a half days ago, and it still hasn't shipped, and I am getting a bit ticked off. How long have you guys had to wait? They had three full business days to ship it.
> 
> I also ordered an Ether C at the same time and that shipped yesterday.
> 
> Not exactly fast movers for the kind of dollars you throw at them. Not impressed so far...


 

 Assuming the M2 is a reference to the Mjolnir 2 ... then the site says it's backordered until the week of April 25th - so you've got quite a bit more waiting to go.
  
 They're generally pretty good about hitting their shipping estimates.
  
 Both my Ragnarok and Yggdrasil orders, placed about 6 weeks apart, shipped the day after I ordered them.


----------



## lludson

Oh wow, I had completely missed that. It's a shame they don't make that more obvious. And it should absolutely be shown in my order and email. I'm still annoyed. Especially since I'll have the Ether sitting here next week with a balanced XLR which is totally useless for two weeks.
  
 Thanks for that info though.


----------



## MWSVette

lludson said:


> Oh wow, I had completely missed that. It's a shame they don't make that more obvious. And it should absolutely be shown in my order and email. I'm still annoyed. Especially since I'll have the Ether sitting here next week with a balanced XLR which is totally useless for two weeks.
> 
> Thanks for that info though.


 
 Send them to me.  I'll keep them busy for a couple weeks...


----------



## lludson

PM me your address. I will send you a pic of my middle finger...


----------



## john777

lludson said:


> PM me your address. I will send you a pic of my middle finger...




No need to get nasty. At least you didn't order a Toxic Cable...


----------



## lludson

I was just jokin' man. Sorry it didn't come across. Thought the emoticon would do it.
  
 Gonna suck sitting on it for a while. I wish I knew ya and you lived close. It'd be all yours...


----------



## Pahani

lludson said:


> I was just jokin' man. Sorry it didn't come across. Thought the emoticon would do it.
> 
> Gonna suck sitting on it for a while. I wish I knew ya and you lived close. It'd be all yours...


 
 For what it's worth, the humor came across loud and clear to me


----------



## lludson

Hah, good. I didn't even realise it wasn't even the guy who joked about getting them. Ah well. Back on topic! I can't wait for the next few weeks to pass. I'm really excited to be set for a long time with this stuff for my gaming and music. I game more than listen to music and movies. So I hope I haven't over-bought.


----------



## Pahani

lludson said:


> Hah, good. I didn't even realise it wasn't even the guy who joked about getting them. Ah well. Back on topic! I can't wait for the next few weeks to pass. I'm really excited to be set for a long time with this stuff for my gaming and music. I game more than listen to music and movies. So I hope I haven't over-bought.


 
 Gamer, eh? Ready for Pascal to arrive? I'm betting launch will coincide roughly with Computex in May, I think.
  
 I think I'll personally wait for the generation after, though. Sort of like Intel's Tick-Tock, Nvidia seems to find good optimizations the generation after a die shrink.
  
 Though I'm an Nvidia person, the upcoming AMD GPUs show a ton of promise as well! The GPU wars may be about to get a LOT more interesting.
  
 Of course if you're a dirty, rotten Console gamer, don't worry your pretty little head about it!


----------



## lludson

Consoles...>puke<.   
  
 I am so ready. I have never had a CPU/MB for so long. Still on my Z77 3770k from almost 4 years ago. Just no reason to upgrade. Two summers ago I did splurge on a 295X2. I like Nvidia too, just pick whatever is the best for me at the time.
  
 So yeah, I am ready on all fronts. I just got a 40" 4k monitor a few months ago, and I want to drive the newest games on it, and hopefully two more with crossfire before too long. Definitely in lower res though. I'm also going to move from one Buttkicker gamer on an Obutto R3volution cockpit to a 4 corner setup, which should be great. But for now, just the one adds a lot.
  
 Do you think I have gone overkill on sound here?


----------



## TeskR

lludson said:


> Do you think I have gone overkill on sound here?


 
  
 No such thing


----------



## lludson

Hah. Good news. It's really a one time investment I think. It's much cheaper than the 30k I'm sure I've spent on computer stuff over my life. I've been able to learn a ton from you users on the forum and in reviews that I think I have future proofed myself by buying highish to begin with. The Dac and Amps above this were just too much for me. I certainly hope this isn't the start of an Ultra-high end addiction. Hope I am happy for a long time!


----------



## Pahani

lludson said:


> Consoles...>puke<.
> 
> I am so ready. I have never had a CPU/MB for so long. Still on my Z77 3770k from almost 4 years ago. Just no reason to upgrade. Two summers ago I did splurge on a 295X2. I like Nvidia too, just pick whatever is the best for me at the time.
> 
> ...


 
 That's one hell of a sweet setup you're assembling, IMO! Far beyond what I can offer advice on, I'm afraid....that being said, I'm usually in the "Go big or go home" category and approve on pure principle  My current "dream" setup would likely be quite similar.
  
 I think the main criteria for a good gaming headphone is soundstage, but as long as the HP doesn't have ANY to speak of, you should be fine. I haven't read up on the Ether, but the little I recall was quite positive.
  
 That 40" 4K is an excellent monitor choice as well! If I didn't already own a 34" 21:9 Ultrawide,and love it, I'd be really torn between the 2 formats.
  
 The big thing to remember here, and more relative to this Forum, is that computer components depreciate quite rapidly (i.e. shiny new video cards), whereas headphones and other audio equipment *should* hold more of their value, and for far longer. So if you have the money to spend, no harm putting it where you'll retain more of it in the long run


----------



## lludson

Thx, we'll I'm workin' on it. My end game is Star Citizen. And in a year I'd like to have triple screens of space sim bliss along with the buttkicker feedback (and the glorious sound I have yet to experience). These monitors are amazing pieces for $700 shipped, so it's not a lot to do, but I'll need the computer to drive it. It's going to take a couple of years to drive them well, and maybe even 5 or more to drive 4k like we all want. How do you like the Ultrawide? I was looking at them. But I guess I ended up going this route, because the horizontal size was the same, and the 16:9 pretty much just adds vertical. But it's hard to drive with full details with my rig. I don't do it on new games.
  
 That's the way I'm looking at it. I am trying to see this as almost a one and done buy. But we'll see. I will tell the wife you're on my side!


----------



## Pahani

lludson said:


> Thx, we'll I'm workin' on it. My end game is Star Citizen. And in a year I'd like to have triple screens of space sim bliss along with the buttkicker feedback (and the glorious sound I have yet to experience). These monitors are amazing pieces for $700 shipped, so it's not a lot to do, but I'll need the computer to drive it. It's going to take a couple of years to drive them well, and maybe even 5 or more to drive 4k like we all want. How do you like the Ultrawide? I was looking at them. But I guess I ended up going this route, because the horizontal size was the same, and the 16:9 pretty much just adds vertical. But it's hard to drive with full details with my rig. I don't do it on new games.
> 
> That's the way I'm looking at it. I am trying to see this as almost a one and done buy. But we'll see. I will tell the wife you're on my side!


 
 I'm running SLI GTX 780 6GB. Hmm, I hadn't compared them that closely, but you're correct that the horizontal resolution isn't far off.
  
 3440X1440
 vs
 3840X2160
  
 I call my monitor a 3K display  I guess technically it's not, but it makes the comparisons simpler.
  
 Problem is, SLI doesn't work in every game :/ MOST games, but there may still be an anomaly here and there. My cards are pushing my monitor well enough that I can comfortably skip Pascal and wait for the 2nd generation from now to do a serious upgrade  So while I spent quite a bit on my cards, I'll have likely gotten a good 4 years out of them when I upgrade.
  
 As far as the audio side of the equation, I don't have near enough experience yet. Others here would be MUCH better to answer that! But that's a combo I would logically be looking at myself, at that level


----------



## gbx2006

Has anyone ordered a Yggdrasil in the past month, and if so, has it shipped out to you yet? I placed an order for one a few weeks ago during the rolling backorder, and I'm trying to gauge when to expect shipment. Any info is appreciated.


----------



## psonoda

Hopefully they build my Ragnatok first. Jk. I think they said the week of April 23 for the Rag. I wonder is they are waiting for chassis. That would make sense.


----------



## gbx2006

psonoda said:


> Hopefully they build my Ragnatok first. Jk. I think they said the week of April 23 for the Rag. I wonder is they are waiting for chassis. That would make sense.


 
  
 Thanks for the info, but I'm sorry to inform you the Yggdrasil just shipped yesterday.  Placed order on 03-15-16 and it shipped 28 days later. Not to shabby.
  
 Good luck with your Ragnarok purchase. I think you're going to love it.


----------



## psonoda

gbx2006 said:


> Thanks for the info, but I'm sorry to inform you the Yggdrasil just shipped yesterday.  Placed order on 03-15-16 and it shipped 28 days later. Not to shabby.
> 
> Good luck with your Ragnarok purchase. I think you're going to love it.




Well bad for me but great for you. Post your impressions. What are you connecting to the Yggy? I will be driving the Ragnarok with either my Grace or Oppo BD105. But I could be swayed.


----------



## hidehide

Hey fellow Schiit owners, I'm looking forward to join you guys. But before I jump the gun, I would like to clarify a few questions with you guys. Hope I can get some thoughtful advise from here.
  
 Speaker and Headphone: Adam A7X and HD650
 Planned Schiit gear: Gungnir multibit (XLR directly to the speaker through Emotiva Control Freak for passive volume control) + Valhalla 2 (for headphone amp)
  
  
 I wonder is the Gungnir multibit also good as a DAC for monitors? Or are they specify for headphones? In addition, I would love to go further for the Mjolnir 2, but it will cost me $500 extra and it seems to be just a headphone amp (might not be future proof if I change to a passive speaker later on). Could you guys please give me some advise?
  
 On the other hand, have anyone of you tested your Schiit gear against Audiolab M-DAC or M-DAC+, Luxman DA-250? Please share your thoughts. =)


----------



## Torq

hidehide said:


> Hey fellow Schiit owners, I'm looking forward to join you guys. But before I jump the gun, I would like to clarify a few questions with you guys. Hope I can get some thoughtful advise from here.
> 
> Speaker and Headphone: Adam A7X and HD650
> Planned Schiit gear: Gungnir multibit (XLR directly to the speaker through Emotiva Control Freak for passive volume control) + Valhalla 2 (for headphone amp)
> ...


 
  
 The Mjolnir 2 is a headphone amp and single-source (non-switching) pre-amp.  If you changed to a passive speaker in the future you'd need to add a power-amplifier.
  
 If you want an amplifier that can do headphones, pre-amp and power-amp duty (i.e. is an intergrated amp), then the only offering on the table from Schiit at the moment is the Ragnarok.


----------



## hidehide

torq said:


> The Mjolnir 2 is a headphone amp and single-source (non-switching) pre-amp.  If you changed to a passive speaker in the future you'd need to add a power-amplifier.
> 
> If you want an amplifier that can do headphones, pre-amp and power-amp duty (i.e. is an intergrated amp), then the only offering on the table from Schiit at the moment is the Ragnarok.


 
 If that's the case, I guess I will be better off to go with Valhalla 2/Asgard 2 just for my HD650 at the moment..
  
 For the DAC, I guess there are no difference between headphone and speakers, right?


----------



## Torq

hidehide said:


> If that's the case, I guess I will be better off to go with Valhalla 2/Asgard 2 just for my HD650 at the moment..
> 
> For the DAC, I guess there are no difference between headphone and speakers, right?


 

 As long as the DAC has the outputs you need for whatever you're connecting to, you're correct.


----------



## hidehide

torq said:


> As long as the DAC has the outputs you need for whatever you're connecting to, you're correct.


 
 Thank you. This helped to clear some confusion on my head.


----------



## TuRbii

Just ordered the Vali 2 and Modi 2.
 Excited to join the Schiit club. My parents will be proud.


----------



## MrGoat

I've been a happy owner of the asgard 2 but I have been thinking about giving tubes a try with my bifrost multibit.
  
 Which would be better with the HD650 (and maybe HD800S in the future) the Valhalla 2 or the Lyr 2?


----------



## RickB

mrgoat said:


> I've been a happy owner of the asgard 2 but I have been thinking about giving tubes a try with my bifrost multibit.
> 
> Which would be better with the HD650 (and maybe HD800S in the future) the Valhalla 2 or the Lyr 2?


 

 Haven't heard the Lyr 2, but the Valhalla 2 is great with my HD600.


----------



## mikebarber1

I've got a Valhalla 2, Asgard 2 and the Sennheiser HD650's. To me the 650's sound a lot better on the Valhalla 2 than the Asgard 2.
  
 My $0.02


----------



## superjawes

mrgoat said:


> I've been a happy owner of the asgard 2 but I have been thinking about giving tubes a try with my bifrost multibit.
> 
> Which would be better with the HD650 (and maybe HD800S in the future) the Valhalla 2 or the Lyr 2?


I've got the HD600 and a Valhalla 1, and it is excellent. Haven't tried the 600 with a Lyr, obviously, but I would guess that the Valhalla is a better pairing with both the HD650 and HD800S.

Keep in mind, however, that Lyr would be better if you decide to dabble in power hungry models like planars (high end HiFiMan stuff, for example). AND Lyr still manages to push a lot of power into high impedance as well. If you never dabble in these types of drivers, then no need to worry about it, but it's worth noting to Lyr's advantage.


----------



## SuperU

I have the Bifrost 4490 and the Asgard 2 

I too wanted to try a tube amp. So went with the Ember 2 from garage1217.com. It is a giant step up to my ears. I couldn't be happier. 

My LCD-X sound amazing with this configuration.


----------



## brendo87

hey guys, I have the Modi and Vali stack, Straight after power up I get a high pitch ringing noise in the right ear. I can then turn off the amp and turn it back on and the ringing is gone for a few minutes. After a while it comes back, so I power cycle again.
  
 Is this a ground loop? and can I buy an isolator to fix?
  
 Thanks,
 Brendan.


----------



## sheldaze

brendo87 said:


> hey guys, I have the Modi and Vali stack, Straight after power up I get a high pitch ringing noise in the right ear. I can then turn off the amp and turn it back on and the ringing is gone for a few minutes. After a while it comes back, so I power cycle again.
> 
> Is this a ground loop? and can I buy an isolator to fix?
> 
> ...


 
 I actually sold my original Vali - the current Vali I have I bought used.
  
 My current Vali exhibited the issue you describe. Sent it into Schiit for repair - it now sounds better than my original Vali. I'm quite impressed!
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi! Contact Schiit for assistance - they're probably closed on the weekend, but will get back to you immediately on a weekday. I am 110% satisfied with my repair.
  
 P.S. I sold the original Vali not because I disliked it, but because I sold my headphones that paired with it. Vali is good!


----------



## hidehide

Just notice there is a closeout sale of Mjolnir for $499. I was originally planned to get the Valhalla 2 $349. By just $150 difference, will the Mjolnir be much better than the Valhalla 2?
  
 I will pair it with Gungnir 2 Multibit + HD650/Adam A7X...


----------



## sheldaze

hidehide said:


> Just notice there is a closeout sale of Mjolnir for $499. I was originally planned to get the Valhalla 2 $449. By just $50 difference, will the Mjolnir be much better than the Valhalla 2?
> 
> I will pair it with Gungnir 2 Multibit + HD650/Adam A7X...


 
 I had both in my system, connected to Gungnir Multibit, and played through Sennheiser HD650.
 I preferred the Valhalla 2 over the Mjolnir.


----------



## hidehide

sheldaze said:


> I had both in my system, connected to Gungnir Multibit, and played through Sennheiser HD650.
> I preferred the Valhalla 2 over the Mjolnir.


 They just replied me the same thing. Saying Valhalla 2 is better for high impedance headphone.. But I love the look of Gungnir 2 stacking up with the Mjornir and being able to use Mjornir as a pre-amp for my active speakers through balanced XLR..
I just couldn't have the best of both world unless I spend more :\


----------



## kejar31

Picked up an Asgard 2 to pair with my new set of LCD-X's.. The combo sounds amazing!! Next purchase will probably be a Bifrost


----------



## MarcusHe

Anyone here that owns both the Magni 2 and the Vali 2? I already own the Magni 2, but I am really curious about tube amps. Is there a big enough sound difference between the two to justify owning both? Any comparison between the two would help a lot!


----------



## superjawes

hidehide said:


> They just replied me the same thing. Saying Valhalla 2 is better for high impedance headphone.. But I love the look of Gungnir 2 stacking up with the Mjornir and being able to use Mjornir as a pre-amp for my active speakers through balanced XLR..
> I just couldn't have the best of both world unless I spend more :\


I personally would not get a Mjolnir 1, even at closeout prices. The Mjolnir 2 can do single ended if you want it to (not possible on the original), and the 2 offers tube options, so you have a high-end amp that can be run entirely SS or as a tube hybrid depending on your mood.

The 2, IMO, is a much better value.


----------



## SuperU

kejar31 said:


> Picked up an Asgard 2 to pair with my new set of LCD-X's.. The combo sounds amazing!! Next purchase will probably be a Bifrost


 
 Nice. We have the same system.
  
 I have the Bifrost 4490 and the Asgard 2 along with the LCD-X. I loved the combo.
  
 Recently I wanted to experience what a tube amp would do for me. So I upgraded to the Ember 2 from Garage1217. And holy smokes, what a difference. A good one. And the amp is inexpensive. But what a difference.
  
 Anyway, you have a great system. I love mine.


----------



## kejar31

superu said:


> Nice. We have the same system.
> 
> I have the Bifrost 4490 and the Asgard 2 along with the LCD-X. I loved the combo.
> 
> ...




Yeah for now I am using my Oppo HA-2 as a DAC only for my desktop setup.. Then the HA-2 for my off site (work) DAC/AMP.. Just picked up the LCD-X and Asgard so I better chill on the wallet fir a few months before the wife gets too annoyed lol.


----------



## hidehide

superjawes said:


> I personally would not get a Mjolnir 1, even at closeout prices. The Mjolnir 2 can do single ended if you want it to (not possible on the original), and the 2 offers tube options, so you have a high-end amp that can be run entirely SS or as a tube hybrid depending on your mood.
> 
> The 2, IMO, is a much better value.


Taking what you mentioned above, I totally agreed with you. But the Mjornir 2 will be over my budget GUMB + MJ2 will be $2k+.. I guess I will just stick with Valhalla 2..


----------



## MrGoat

Which amp responds better to tube rolling. The lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2? I'm looking for something to compliment my asgard 2 and I love glass, so I figured let's go tubes. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Valhalla 2, but I keep getting conflicting reports on how it sounds. I may just have to try for myself.


----------



## 520RanchBro

mrgoat said:


> Which amp responds better to tube rolling. The lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2? I'm looking for something to compliment my asgard 2 and I love glass, so I figured let's go tubes. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Valhalla 2, but I keep getting conflicting reports on how it sounds. I may just have to try for myself.


 
 Well this is just my experience with tube vs ss guitar and bass amps but generally full tube amps are altered more by tube changes than hybrid ones.


----------



## gbx2006

psonoda said:


> Well bad for me but great for you. Post your impressions. What are you connecting to the Yggy? I will be driving the Ragnarok with either my Grace or Oppo BD105. But I could be swayed.


 
  
 Sorry for the late response. Between letting the Yggy break in and being busy I haven't had a chance to post until now.
  
 I might not be the best person to give a comparison type of impression since the only other DAC I own right now is the iDSD. I also have not heard either the Grace or Oppo BD105 before so I can not comment of the differences between the Yggy and those. I can say the Yggy has a wonderful sound to it that I've never heard before. The sound stage is quite impressive, and I can focus on voices and instruments that are playing in realistic way, almost like they are really there in front of me. Lead singers become almost tangible to me, and this is listening to music with headphones (Oppo PM-2) that I would consider to be upper mid-fi. I've read people say that better headphones, or better yet, good speakers, will make it sound even better.
  
 Here is my setup: 2009 Dell PC running Windows 10 with Fidelizer Pro 7.1 streaming Tidal lossless over WASAPI --- Schiit Audio USB Cable --- Schiit Yggdrasil --- Schiit Balanced Cables --- Schiit Ragnarok --- Oppo PM-2 Headphones with Oppo Balanced Cable. 
  
 Here is something that I noted in case you decide to try one for yourself:
  
 The Yggy's sound really does change after it has warmed up for 3-7 days. When I first listened to it the day I received it, I loved it. Later that day I didn't like it anymore. In fact I started to think about returning it. After 3 days I started to notice a change in the sound. After a week it was like it went from being to warm and muddy to being just the right amount of warmth with excellent instrument separation and sound stage. Thoughts of returning the Yggy are completely gone.
  
 I could go on and on about how much I love the Yggy, but I will stop here, unless you have more questions which I will gladly try to help answer.


----------



## nk126

Any reason NOT to run a Magni 2 in High gain mode all the time?
  
 I have MacBook Air -> Modi -> Magni 2 -> HiFiman 400i, and prefer High gain mainly b/c I can keep the volume knob lower and adjust the volume in smaller increments. 
  
 Is there any reason not to do this?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## RickB

nk126 said:


> Any reason NOT to run a Magni 2 in High gain mode all the time?
> 
> I have MacBook Air -> Modi -> Magni 2 -> HiFiman 400i, and prefer High gain mainly b/c I can keep the volume knob lower and adjust the volume in smaller increments.
> 
> ...


 

 Nope. Feel free.


----------



## donunus

calling schiit customer service: Since you haven't replied to my cousin's email I'll post it here... Is it possible to buy an yggdrassil with the rca outs modded to 4 volts instead of the stock 2 volts? He wanted to buy one asap but he never got a reply to the email sent last weekend.


----------



## jbird55044

Good evening - I'm new to this forum, and new to Head-Fi, actually new to HiFi headphones.  Loving my first expierance and thank you all for all of the advice.  Sure does beat some of the ear-buds I've been playing with.   So much to learn!
  
 So my first question . . .   Am I the first person to lose a tube inside the hole of a Mjolnir 2?  I picked up a cheap pair of 6Dj8's.    It's like it was in my hand one moment, and poof gone the next rattling around the circuit board!    There has to be an easier way to get these tubes in and out.


----------



## johnjen

Read this first…
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/10560#post_12555875
  
 Then depending upon your familiarity and expertise with taking electronic gear apart…
  
 Make sure it's turned off, unplugged, and sits for a while before you…
 Take the outer case off, to retrieve the tube…
  
 OR
  
 send it in to Schiit to have them to do it…
  
 OR
  
 have your neighborhood techno dweeb do it…
 Good luck.
  
 JJ


----------



## johnjen

donunus said:


> calling schiit customer service: Since you haven't replied to my cousin's email I'll post it here... Is it possible to buy an yggdrassil with the rca outs modded to 4 volts instead of the stock 2 volts? He wanted to buy one asap but he never got a reply to the email sent last weekend.


 
 Read this first…
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/10560#post_12555875
   
JJ


----------



## enginepartsguy

[SIZE=3

[attach]1589619[/attach]
[/VIDEO][/SIZE]


----------



## enginepartsguy

Nice and cool, must blow into the amp, tried pulling the air through and it was still hot on the left side. Got the set up from Cooler Guys. Bye. C.


----------



## crazychile

jbird55044 said:


> Am I the first person to lose a tube inside the hole of a Mjolnir 2?  I picked up a cheap pair of 6Dj8's.    It's like it was in my hand one moment, and poof gone the next rattling around the circuit board!    There has to be an easier way to get these tubes in and out.


 
  
 Probably not the first one to do this, but maybe the first to admit it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's really not that hard. Buy some tube extenders and that makes it almost impossible for it to happen. The amp will also run slightly cooler.


----------



## jbird55044

Thanks - I got that one out w/ some help of gravity.  I rolled the unit around upside down until I got to the tube and gently pulled it out w/ a pair of needle nose pliers against a pin.
  
 I have some plastic wrap that's used for furniture wrapping (like when you move), and it's quite sticky, especially against glass.  So I piece of that wrapped around the warm tube certainly helped wiggle them out.   Rolling trough LISST, OEM Tubes, and the new (old) 6DJ8's . . .  I'm favoring the 6DJ8's at this point.    I'll keep them in there for a while before playing with them again. 
  
 I'll start searching for another set of tubes to see where it can go from here.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

jbird55044 said:


> Thanks - I got that one out w/ some help of gravity.  I rolled the unit around upside down until I got to the tube and gently pulled it out w/ a pair of needle nose pliers against a pin.
> 
> I have some plastic wrap that's used for furniture wrapping (like when you move), and it's quite sticky, especially against glass.  So I piece of that wrapped around the warm tube certainly helped wiggle them out.   Rolling trough LISST, OEM Tubes, and the new (old) 6DJ8's . . .  I'm favoring the 6DJ8's at this point.    I'll keep them in there for a while before playing with them again.
> 
> I'll start searching for another set of tubes to see where it can go from here.


 

 I'd highly recommend buying a set of tube extenders first.  They really do make tube removal much easier as well as cooling the box.  Also, I'm completely anal about this, but I always wipe down my tubes with something like Windex to remove oils and other contaminants before installation.  The fact that tubes get HOT means contaminants will be baked into the glass.  The filament emissivity will probably die long before the surface contamination will weaken the glass, but it doesn't hurt to keep things clean.  That sticky plastic wrap you're talking about might leave a residue on the glass that should be removed.


----------



## Headmate

Hey mates,
  
 Im keen on buying Modi & Magni2. Can anyone kindly compare these with O2/ODAC?
  
 I prefer clarity, crispiness & soundstage above all.
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## tafens

headmate said:


> Hey mates,
> Im keen on buying Modi & Magni2. Can anyone kindly compare these with O2/ODAC?
> 
> I prefer clarity, crispiness & soundstage above all.
> ...




Here's one here on head-fi (although comparing the original Modi/Magni against the O2/ODAC):

http://www.head-fi.org/t/642401/comparison-and-review-magni-modi-vs-o2-odac/0_20#post_8981854

(the whole thread is an interesting read)


----------



## Headmate

tafens said:


> Here's one here on head-fi (although comparing the original Modi/Magni against the O2/ODAC):
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/642401/comparison-and-review-magni-modi-vs-o2-odac/0_20#post_8981854
> 
> (the whole thread is an interesting read)


 
 Thanks mate,
  
 Overall it appears that Magni & Modi are a little better than O2/ODAC
  
 also now that Magni2 & Modi 2 have arrived, these must be much better than O2/ODAC Rev.B?


----------



## Defiant00

headmate said:


> Thanks mate,
> 
> Overall it appears that Magni & Modi are a little better than O2/ODAC
> 
> also now that Magni2 & Modi 2 have arrived, these must be much better than O2/ODAC Rev.B?


 
  
 The 2 versions have pretty similar performance to the originals, the biggest update to both was extra features. Modi 2 got the simple/expert switch to enable 24/192 and Magni 2 got a gain switch.


----------



## 520RanchBro

defiant00 said:


> The 2 versions have pretty similar performance to the originals, the biggest update to both was extra features. Modi 2 got the simple/expert switch to enable 24/192 and Magni 2 got a gain switch.


 
  
 Yeah I had a Modi and bought a Modi 2 Uber, no discernible difference in my experience.


----------



## TuRbii

Just showed up today!


----------



## Headmate

turbii said:


> Just showed up today!


 

 Look real neat!
  
 I believe you are running HD600's on these. Thats a real warm & sweet sound


----------



## enginepartsguy

Nice! Schniit makes some nice stuff for a resonable price. I have a Valhalla 2 and love it. Let us know how it sounds after you burn them in. C.


----------



## TuRbii

headmate said:


> Look real neat!
> 
> I believe you are running HD600's on these. Thats a real warm & sweet sound



HD 650s. I love the sound. It's hard to get up and stop listening.


----------



## kejar31

OK just put in an order for the Bifrost 4490 to pair with my Asgard 2 I got last week.. looking forward to the new Schiit


----------



## freitz

turbii said:


> Just showed up today!


 
 Nice Little Stack of Schiit.


----------



## TuRbii

freitz said:


> Nice Little Stack of Schiit.


 
 I love having a stack of Schiit sitting on my desk. It's best when it's warm.


----------



## freitz

turbii said:


> I love having a stack of Schiit sitting on my desk. It's best when it's warm.


 
 Yeah I liked my Schiit stack when I had it.


----------



## Gavin C4

I am just very into the Schiit product with the very competitive price to performance ratio. I also like their appearance design of the stacks. Sometimes its just the aesthetics that makes me feel better and more satisfied. Well the sound quality is also very important and Schiit pulls it of perfectly. 
 I am seriously looking into the Gumby/Mj2 stack upgrade.


----------



## Headmate

I too feel Schiit is a great brand.
  
 Especially their Magni & Modi, which provide excellent sound quality & value for money, an average music lover can buy those without breaking a bank.
  
 Say, you can get Q701 for 200$ & Magni/Modi for 200$ = 400$, you have an excellent mid-level setup


----------



## artur9

I've contacted Schiit about this and already got an email from Nick T. but thought I'd throw this out to the collective wisdom.
  
 I'm using my Uberfrost into an older Krell integrated amp (KAV-300IL).  The source into the Uberfrost is a preamp with digital out so digitally volume controlled.  Because the source is volume-controlled the Uberfrost uses a full-volume HT bypass input to the Krell.
  
 Wit this setup I am getting hum.  If I disconnect the coax source to the Uberfrost I still get the hum.  Nick suggested I test with a cheater plug so I used a cord with the ground plug ripped off. Still with the hum.
  
 Can anyone offer any other suggestions?  After I tried with no ground I told Nick that I think the unit needs to be serviced.


----------



## Defiant00

artur9 said:


> I've contacted Schiit about this and already got an email from Nick T. but thought I'd throw this out to the collective wisdom.
> 
> I'm using my Uberfrost into an older Krell integrated amp (KAV-300IL).  The source into the Uberfrost is a preamp with digital out so digitally volume controlled.  Because the source is volume-controlled the Uberfrost uses a full-volume HT bypass input to the Krell.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you have another amp to test the Uberfrost with? Also, does the hum go away if you unplug the RCA outs on the Uberfrost?
  
 I suspect you've already tried the latter, but doesn't hurt to check


----------



## artur9

defiant00 said:


> Do you have another amp to test the Uberfrost with? Also, does the hum go away if you unplug the RCA outs on the Uberfrost?
> 
> I suspect you've already tried the latter, but doesn't hurt to check


 

 I have other amps but they are all inconveniently located for such a test.  But maybe I'll bestir myself!
  
 And, yes, unplugging the RCA outs from the Uberfrost or the amp does eliminate the hum.


----------



## hodgjy

artur9 said:


> I have other amps but they are all inconveniently located for such a test.  But maybe I'll bestir myself!
> 
> And, yes, unplugging the RCA outs from the Uberfrost or the amp does eliminate the hum.


 
 Definitely a ground loop of some kind. Switch to optical if you can. I've used optical for years just because it breaks up electrical connections between devices.


----------



## artur9

hodgjy said:


> Definitely a ground loop of some kind. Switch to optical if you can. I've used optical for years just because it breaks up electrical connections between devices.


 

 Optical is not available unless I use a coax->optical converter.  Which I have.  Besides the jitter inherent in optical would that degrade the audio worse than the hum?


----------



## hodgjy

artur9 said:


> Optical is not available unless I use a coax->optical converter.  Which I have.  Besides the jitter inherent in optical would that degrade the audio worse than the hum?


 
 If it removes the hum, go with it. I don't claim to have golden ears, but I've never heard a difference between optical and coax. While jitter can be measured, the differences in them cannot be discerned by the human ear. Anyone that claims they can hear the difference is just making it up. Trust me. I am using optical to feed my MB Gungnir (Gumby). Works great.
  
 Also, before USB improved in recent DACs, it was very common for people to use USB to optical converters. No one complained about those. They also work great.


----------



## artur9

hodgjy said:


> If it removes the hum, go with it. I don't claim to have golden ears, but I've never heard a difference between optical and coax.


 
 If I disconnect the coax (not connecting the optical yet) the hum remains.  Doesn't that suggest that the hum originates in the Uberfrost?


----------



## hodgjy

artur9 said:


> If I disconnect the coax (not connecting the optical yet) the hum remains.  Doesn't that suggest that the hum originates in the Uberfrost?


 
 How loud is the hum? It sounds like it's ground looping. Can you try feeding it into another amp?


----------



## mikebarber1

Have you considered trying a ground loop isolator to see if that resolves the issue?


----------



## Executioner2016

I am new to the audiophile world, but my friend owns a pair of Hifiman HE-500's and I am about to become the owner of a pair of      HE-400's and is using a Schiit dac and amp and they sound amazing. What amp/dac combo would you all recommend buying from this company? I listen to mostly electronic music and do not have thousands of dollars to spend but I will put down good money for a quality product.


----------



## artur9

mikebarber1 said:


> Have you considered trying a ground loop isolator to see if that resolves the issue?


 
  
 I cut the ground off another power cord and that did not eliminate the hum.  It wasn't an expensive one 
  


hodgjy said:


> How loud is the hum? It sounds like it's ground looping. Can you try feeding it into another amp?


 
  
 I can hear it from 10' away when the room is quiet.  If the room is noisy I can hear it from 1.5 - 2 ft away.  It's not a steady hum like if one were to touch the end of the RCA but similar in tone to that.  It's a little bit static-y.  I'm using speakers not phones so another amp is difficult to come by.
  
 Maybe I should make a recording of it.


----------



## mikebarber1

artur9 said:


> I cut the ground off another power cord and that did not eliminate the hum.  It wasn't an expensive one


 
  
 Thats not what I meant by a Ground Loop Isolator, these are what I was talking about.
  
 https://www.google.com/search?q=ground+loop+isolator&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRpu3T_dXMAhULkx4KHf54B1gQ_AUICSgD&biw=1680&bih=955


----------



## artur9

mikebarber1 said:


> Thats not what I meant by a Ground Loop Isolator, these are what I was talking about.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=ground+loop+isolator&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRpu3T_dXMAhULkx4KHf54B1gQ_AUICSgD&biw=1680&bih=955


 

 Is there one you can recommend?  I'm willing to try one for what those appear to cost.


----------



## landroni

artur9 said:


> Optical is not available unless I use a coax->optical converter.  Which I have.  Besides the jitter inherent in optical would that degrade the audio worse than the hum?


 

 Jitter is inherent in the electrical world as well, for both USB and Coax. If you use a good quality glass cable like Lifatec it should be fine.


----------



## Flisker

mrgoat said:


> Which amp responds better to tube rolling. The lyr 2 or the Valhalla 2? I'm looking for something to compliment my asgard 2 and I love glass, so I figured let's go tubes. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Valhalla 2, but I keep getting conflicting reports on how it sounds. I may just have to try for myself.


 
  
 Don't have experience with Valhalla 2, but Lyr 2 responds pretty good to tube rolling and works very well with lot of headphones.
  
 It's incredible pairing with HD650 !


----------



## networkn

anyone have a manual for installing the 4490 in the BiFrost.


----------



## sheldaze

networkn said:


> anyone have a manual for installing the 4490 in the BiFrost.


 
 Uber upgrade was identical. See post #25 linked below:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695


----------



## SuperU

sheldaze said:


> Uber upgrade was identical. See post #25 linked below:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade/15#post_9405695


 
 Networkn - I see sheldaze posted the links for you.
  
 I did this as well. And I am very non technical. 
  
 I wrote to Schiit asking if they had directions and got a curt response that they don't provide them as one needs to be an expert technician. 
  
 Well, here is what I think of that: ROFLMAO
  
 If this needs an expert tech, then I am the god of all techs. Since we know I am not, it also invalidates their assertion. 
  
 I had an expert tech with me, in case I needed him. I didn't. The board change is literally unplugging and replugging the new one. No cables, no fuss, no muss.
  
 I would have had it completely done in 2 minutes but there are so many screws. So it took about 5 minutes to unscrew and rescrew everything.
  
 Just be careful you are grounded and have no static electricity.
  
 A 5 year old could do this.


----------



## 520RanchBro

superu said:


> Networkn - I see sheldaze posted the links for you.
> 
> I did this as well. And I am very non technical.
> 
> ...


 
 It's to protect their liability, I feel like that's pretty obvious. If they told someone a 5 year old could do it and someone messed up, they are going to be an angry customer.


----------



## SuperU

520ranchbro said:


> It's to protect their liability, I feel like that's pretty obvious. If they told someone a 5 year old could do it and someone messed up, they are going to be an angry customer.



Very true. However, they could also say that. That also should be pretty obvious.


----------



## networkn

Thanks. I'll have a crack at it tomorrow night. 
 It's basically removal of 1 Daughter board and installation of this to replace it, so that's good.


----------



## jdhore

executioner2016 said:


> I am new to the audiophile world, but my friend owns a pair of Hifiman HE-500's and I am about to become the owner of a pair of      HE-400's and is using a Schiit dac and amp and they sound amazing. What amp/dac combo would you all recommend buying from this company? I listen to mostly electronic music and do not have thousands of dollars to spend but I will put down good money for a quality product.


 

 IMO, the best price/performance with Schiit right now are the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber for the lower-budget and Gungnir + Mjolnir 2 for higher budget.
  
 Both sets are powerful enough to drive HE-400's or HE-500's


----------



## artur9

hodgjy said:


> How loud is the hum? It sounds like it's ground looping. Can you try feeding it into another amp?


 

 Finally got around to trying the Uberfrost on a different amp.  Same problem.  It's back to the shop for it.  Might as well upgrade to Bimby while it's there!


----------



## Gavin C4

jdhore said:


> IMO, the best price/performance with Schiit right now are the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber for the lower-budget and Gungnir + Mjolnir 2 for higher budget.
> 
> Both sets are powerful enough to drive HE-400's or HE-500's


 
 yup, these two stacks should  be the best seller for the two major groups. One for budget build one for higher end


----------



## Mumbles06

I'm having a blessed day and just wanted to share.  Arizona HiFi is an amazing audio shop in Phoenix AZ that sells all sorts of tubes, amps, speakers and headphones.  I stopped in a few months back when I was in AZ for business and bought a pair of tubes for my Vali 2.  I bought a Phillips JAN 6922 NOS and a Genalex Gold Lion 6922.  When I upgraded to the Mojo 2 I called them up and asked if I could buy another set of matching tubes if I sent mine back to them to have them matched up.  I got to talking to them and let them know I'm a military pilot and that I would try to get a jet and drop in one of these months for training and come pick them up.  Well, it's been a few months and I haven't been able to get back there so I called them up to just place the order and pay for shipping, and they hooked me up with a matched set of each and are shipping it to me free as a "thanks for your service."  I feel so thankful and blessed.  But aside from them giving me free stuff, they really are an awesome shop that I highly encourage anyone in Phoenix to stop by, or if you are looking for tubes and not in AZ, give them a call and see what they have.  When I was there they had a set of Bugle Boy pinched waist 6922s that were a bit more money than I wanted to spend, but they do have cool stuff.  As a bonus there's a great indy record shop next door.  Anyway their website is http://tubeaudio.com/ if anyone is interested.


----------



## LTSFBH

Just wanted to jump on this thread, as I am now an official Schiit-head! I have a Valhalla, Lyr and Lyr2. I am using the stock tubes and listen mostly with Grado hp's (fed through Musical Fidelity and Denon DACs). Enjoying the combo so much that I am not even considering tube rolling at all. Very happy camper!


----------



## bodhidharma

Ciao a tutti i proprietari Schiit, ho un Yggdrasil e Mjolnir 2 che uso per il mio Audeze LCD2 ver. 2.2 e in poco tempo si compra per il mio desktop un Asgard 2 e Bifrost Multibit che userò per il mio HiFiMan HE-400i. La Yggdrasil è a mio parere il miglior DAC in tutto il mondo, è semplicemente stupefacente: dinamiche mostruose, ANALOG come il vinile, velocità da paura, altrettanto versatile e produce il miglior basso che abbia mai sentito. Posso dire questo a ragion veduta perché insieme con un Auralic Ariete serve come fonte di un sistema composto da un pre Pass Labs X1, due finale monofonico Jungson JA100 Luxury Edition, Uher AC-10, e cavi per altoparlanti top-end aria-cavo. Il mio Audeze LCD2 è cablato con un veleno tossico Cryo Cavi bloccati argento argento / oro equilibrato. Il mio Mjolnir 2've aggiornato con due valvole Telefunken E288CC selezionato il colore dorato del 1959 ($ 400) e vi posso assicurare che batte amplificatore da $ 3.000. Sarei felice di condividere la mia esperienza di ascolto con altri possessori di Yggdrasil e Mjolnir 2 e, ovviamente, rispetto a qualsiasi altro prodotto Schiit.


----------



## landroni

bodhidharma said:


> Ciao a tutti i proprietari Schiit, ho un Yggdrasil e Mjolnir 2 che uso per il mio Audeze LCD2 ver. 2.2 e in poco tempo si compra per il mio desktop un Asgard 2 e Bifrost Multibit che userò per il mio HiFiMan HE-400i. La Yggdrasil è a mio parere il miglior DAC in tutto il mondo, è semplicemente stupefacente: dinamiche mostruose, ANALOG come il vinile, velocità da paura, altrettanto versatile e produce il miglior basso che abbia mai sentito. Posso dire questo a ragion veduta perché insieme con un Auralic Ariete serve come fonte di un sistema composto da un pre Pass Labs X1, due finale monofonico Jungson JA100 Luxury Edition, Uher AC-10, e cavi per altoparlanti top-end aria-cavo. Il mio Audeze LCD2 è cablato con un veleno tossico Cryo Cavi bloccati argento argento / oro equilibrato. Il mio Mjolnir 2've aggiornato con due valvole Telefunken E288CC selezionato il colore dorato del 1959 ($ 400) e vi posso assicurare che batte amplificatore da $ 3.000. Sarei felice di condividere la mia esperienza di ascolto con altri possessori di Yggdrasil e Mjolnir 2 e, ovviamente, rispetto a qualsiasi altro prodotto Schiit.


 

 Ciao. Questo e un forum internazionale e se vuoi domandare qualcosa, per favore devi farlo in Inglese....
  
 Translation: Hi. This is an interantional forum and if you'd like to ask something, please do it in English.
  
 [At least I assume that there are the rules, indeed.]


----------



## 520RanchBro

I mean I don't think this is a place where you _have _to speak English as a rule.  Though, you're a lot more likely to get a response if you do post in English!


----------



## kejar31

So I have had my Schiit stack (bifrost 4490, asgard 2) for about two months now and love it.. Due to the warm up time I have become lazy and just leave both on 24/7.. Does anyone else leave their stack on all the time, is there anything I need to be worried about doing this, other than the electric bill that is?


----------



## RickB

kejar31 said:


> So I have had my Schiit stack (bifrost 4490, asgard 2) for about two months now and love it.. Due to the warm up time I have become lazy and just leave both on 24/7.. Does anyone else leave their stack on all the time, is there anything I need to be worried about doing this, other than the electric bill that is?


 

 I leave my DAC on all the time, but turn off the amp when I'm not using it. However, I'm using a tube amp. For solid state, there shouldn't be a problem, other than you're reducing the total usable life of the amp. It might last you 10 years, instead of 20 (something like that).


----------



## bodhidharma

Hello to all Schiit owners, I have a Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 that I use for my Audeze LCD2 ver. 2.2 and in no time you will buy for my desktop a Asgard 2 and Bifrost Multibit that I will use for my HiFiMan HE-400i. The Yggdrasil is in my opinion the best DAC in the world, is simply amazing: monstrous dynamics, ANALOG like vinyl, speed from fear, just as versatile and produces the best bass I've ever heard. I can say this advisedly because together with Auralic Aries serves as a source of a system consisting of a pre Pass Labs X1, two final monophonic Jungson JA100 Luxury Edition, Uher AC-10, and cables for air-cord top-end speakers. My Audeze LCD2 is wired with a toxic poison Cryo Cables blocked balanced silver / gold silver. My Mjolnir 2've updated with two Telefunken E288CC valves selected gold in 1959 ($ 400) and I can assure you that beats from $ 3,000 amplifier. I would be happy to share my experience of listening to other holders of Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 and, of course, than any other product Schiit.


----------



## bodhidharma

I apologize to everyone, it was an oversight.


----------



## Billheiser

bodhidharma said:


> Hello to all Schiit owners, I have a Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 that I use for my Audeze LCD2 ver. 2.2 and in no time you will buy for my desktop a Asgard 2 and Bifrost Multibit that I will use for my HiFiMan HE-400i. The Yggdrasil is in my opinion the best DAC in the world, is simply amazing: monstrous dynamics, ANALOG like vinyl, speed from fear, just as versatile and produces the best bass I've ever heard. I can say this advisedly because together with Auralic Aries serves as a source of a system consisting of a pre Pass Labs X1, two final monophonic Jungson JA100 Luxury Edition, Uher AC-10, and cables for air-cord top-end speakers. My Audeze LCD2 is wired with a toxic poison Cryo Cables blocked balanced silver / gold silver. My Mjolnir 2've updated with two Telefunken E288CC valves selected gold in 1959 ($ 400) and I can assure you that beats from $ 3,000 amplifier. I would be happy to share my experience of listening to other holders of Yggdrasil and Mjolnir 2 and, of course, than any other product Schiit.


 

 Nice entry-level stuff, when you gonna go high end?


----------



## FLTWS

billheiser said:


> Nice entry-level stuff, when you gonna go high end?


 
  
 LOL. After a 14 year hiatus from high-end gear, (as I retired and downsized to a smaller home and had to abandon my dedicated listening room, sigh), I decided to return to it with a high quality headphone station on a moveable rack/stand. After spending weeks reading on this and a few other forums/websites I decided to take the plunge. I've been using an MJ2 (my first Schiit) with tubes for several weeks and it is the best sounding Schiit I've heard in years. At first listen to those tubes my romance with the music in my CD collection was back like it hadn't been in years. I'm awaiting delivery of my Yggy and some LSST tubes (can't beat the flexibility MJ2 offers). And while I probably won't ever abandon some tube sound in my signal path I will probably go for a little action on the side with Raggy at some point. After I get some quality time in with Yggy (fed by the digital outs on my Emotiva ERC-3), the search for some additional top shelf headphones is my next step.


----------



## Topspin70

fltws said:


> billheiser said:
> 
> 
> > Nice entry-level stuff, when you gonna go high end?
> ...




...Yggy (fed by the digital outs on my Emotiva...? You probably meant the Raggy.


----------



## FLTWS

topspin70 said:


> ...Yggy (fed by the digital outs on my Emotiva...? You probably meant the Raggy.


 
  
 Have I got it wrong? Emotiva digital outs (AES/EBU or Coax or Toslink) into Yggy the DAC's digital inputs and on to either MJ2 or Raggy inputs, and out to the headphones?


----------



## Torq

fltws said:


> Have I got it wrong? Emotiva digital outs (AES/EBU or Coax or Toslink) into Yggy the DAC's digital inputs and on to either MJ2 or Raggy inputs, and out to the headphones?


 

 No, not wrong ... your Emotive CD player feeds the DAC (Yggdrasil) via any of its digital outputs; Yggdrasil then feeds whichever amp you wish to use with either it's balanced or single-ended connections (balanced for either MJ2 or Ragnarok of course) and then that drives your headphones.


----------



## FLTWS

torq said:


> No, not wrong ... your Emotive CD player feeds the DAC (Yggdrasil) via any of its digital outputs; Yggdrasil then feeds whichever amp you wish to use with either it's balanced or single-ended connections (balanced for either MJ2 or Ragnarok of course) and then that drives your headphones.


 
  
 OK. After so many years out of the loop I have to stop and double check my thinking every time. My last DAC was the original Wadia with it's own separate transport, and there really wasn't much available in the way of true balanced outputs on equipment (that I was aware of - or that I could afford) back in 2000!


----------



## Paladin79

I will probably spend more time reading this thread than commenting. I do own a Valhalla 2 and was curious what you all think of the original tubes compared to others I might try. I am mainly interested in rolling the 6N1P's.


----------



## artur9

artur9 said:


> Re: ... hum on the Uberfrost ...


 
  
 For those who are interested I finally resolved my hum issue with my Uberfrost.  Different amps (my new-to-me Odyssey) and using XLR->RCA cables did it.


----------



## bodhidharma

billheiser said:


> Nice entry-level stuff, when you gonna go high end?


 
 It took many years of sacrifice and countless nights spent reading the innermost reviews (6moons head) and any news on matches between disparate hi-end components, to get to this configuration but now I enjoy the most of all this good of God to the sound of Studio Masters. Still advise everyone to buy the Yggdrasil, it is an extraordinary DAC and certainly the most amazing purchase I've ever made, does come to life to any music engraving!


----------



## john777

bodhidharma said:


> It took many years of sacrifice and countless nights spent reading the innermost reviews (6moons head) and any news on matches between disparate hi-end components, to get to this configuration but now I enjoy the most of all this good of God to the sound of Studio Masters. Still advise everyone to buy the Yggdrasil, it is an extraordinary DAC and certainly the most amazing purchase I've ever made, does come to life to any music engraving!




Anyone compared the Yggdrasil with the PS Audio DirectStream DAC or the Junior version?


----------



## Torq

john777 said:


> Anyone compared the Yggdrasil with the PS Audio DirectStream DAC or the Junior version?


 

 Yes, I have ... with both, in fact ... as part of a big series of high-end DAC auditions preceding a DAC purchase for an additional headphone rig, which is being discussed in the "Life After Yggdrasil?" thread.
  
 Right now I'm using the Yggdrasil to feed both a WA5LE and a Ragnarok, but the WA5LE is going to be moving to my main listening room and will need it's own, dedicated, DAC, so I'm seeing what's out there.
  
 I haven't posted impressions yet ... probably won't until I get a bit further through the process, but figured I'd mention the thread in case you were interested and/or don't get any other feedback.


----------



## john777

Thank you Torq. Very interesting.


----------



## Arthrumus

Never saw this thread before (I spend most of my time in the STAX thread) but I'm the satisfied owner of an Uberfrost. It's the source I use to feed my SRM-1 Mk2 amp and all of my electrostatic headphones. I really like it, though I am considering sending it in to get the multibit upgrade. Has anyone done the upgrade and is it worth the price?


----------



## kothganesh

You really need to audition the MB (multi bit) Uberfrost. IME, the MB is a little more revealing and resolving with deeper lower end extension. The regular Uberfrost is smoother (and lack of a better word, more digital).
  
 I love the multi bit sound. You need to pick your flavor.


----------



## ruleof72

Hi,
  
 I'm looking to upgrade my desktop system with some new Schiit and have a question on the best way to set things up.
  
 My plan is to get the Modi2 Uber and connect it to my desktop computer. From there I want to add the Vali2 to power my K7xx and MadDog Pros.
  
 The question comes from the fact that I also run a pair of powered monitors and would like to use just one DAC. Can I safely add splitters to the RCA outputs from the Modi2 and send signal to the Vali and my monitors?
  
 Just want to be sure before I do anything.
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## D Smith

@ruleof72  The Vali 2 has preamp outs; you can just connect your powered speakers to that.  That's what I do with my Valhalla 2 and it works fine.


----------



## h2rulz

d smith said:


> @ruleof72  The Vali 2 has preamp outs; you can just connect your powered speakers to that.  That's what I do with my Valhalla 2 and it works fine.


 
  
@ruleof72
 Yup, just use the preamp outs. I had a similar setup where my previous Vali 2/Modi 2U stack (these powered the K7xx when I still had them) was connected to my speaker receiver.
 Used to do the same with the Valhalla 2/Bifrost MB setup. Although, now I just run it straight from the Bifrost.


----------



## Paladin79

I do the same with a Valhalla 2 and some Martin Logan powered speakers and the results are quite good. I did eventually add a quality switch box so I could run a turntable pre-amp and other devices into the amp.


----------



## ruleof72

ruleof72 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade my desktop system with some new Schiit and have a question on the best way to set things up.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


d smith said:


> @ruleof72  The Vali 2 has preamp outs; you can just connect your powered speakers to that.  That's what I do with my Valhalla 2 and it works fine.


 
  
  


h2rulz said:


> @ruleof72
> Yup, just use the preamp outs. I had a similar setup where my previous Vali 2/Modi 2U stack (these powered the K7xx when I still had them) was connected to my speaker receiver.
> Used to do the same with the Valhalla 2/Bifrost MB setup. Although, now I just run it straight from the Bifrost.


 
  
 OK, I forgot about that option. Thanks for reminding me. Are the preamp outputs active when headphones are plugged into the amp or do I have to plug/unplug the headphones to use the preamp? My preference is to leave the headphones plugged in as I don't want to "wear out" the connector in the amp. Is that something I really need to be concerned about?


----------



## GregH

I have the Asgard 2 which also has preamp outputs. My M-Audio AV 40s are plugged into the preamp outs and when I plug in a pair of headphones the preamp outputs automatically shut off. If I remove the headphone plug the preamp outs turn back on.
  
 You'll be fine so go ahead and enjoy that Schiit!


----------



## Paladin79

gregh said:


> I have the Asgard 2 which also has preamp outputs. My M-Audio AV 40s are plugged into the preamp outs and when I plug in a pair of headphones the preamp outputs automatically shut off. If I remove the headphone plug the preamp outs turn back on.
> 
> You'll be fine so go ahead and enjoy that Schiit!


 
 The same is true of the Valhalla 2 of course. The only thing you might want to watch is the pre-amp output level that you feed into power speakers. The volume control on the Valhalla 2 will vary the pre-amp output level. I generally start at a low level and work my way up. If I want more power I adjust the speaker volume.  This may not be a factor for the powered speakers you mentioned but it is an issue for mine since they are expecting a line level source.
 One of the biggest reasons I chose the Valhalla 2 was the pre-amp out.


----------



## ruleof72

paladin79 said:


> The same is true of the Valhalla 2 of course. The only thing you might want to watch is the pre-amp output level that you feed into power speakers. The volume control on the Valhalla 2 will vary the pre-amp output level. I generally start at a low level and work my way up. If I want more power I adjust the speaker volume.  This may not be a factor for the powered speakers you mentioned but it is an issue for mine since they are expecting a line level source.
> One of the biggest reasons I chose the Valhalla 2 was the pre-amp out.


 
 Right now I have the DAC connected to a Schiit Sys (which I forgot to mention in my original post) feeding the powered monitors. I have the volume level from the computer set at 100% and then adjust the volume to the monitors using the Sys. If I add the Vali to the chain would I need the Sys anymore?


----------



## Paladin79

ruleof72 said:


> Right now I have the DAC connected to a Schiit Sys (which I forgot to mention in my original post) feeding the powered monitors. I have the volume level from the computer set at 100% and then adjust the volume to the monitors using the Sys. If I add the Vali to the chain would I need the Sys anymore?


 
 I know you can run straight from the Dac to the Vali and then on to the speakers through the preamp out if you like. Like I said though, I can overdrive my speakers if I am not careful. I am sure there are plenty of people here who know about the Sys.
 I would probably experiment but that is me, with my equipment. Vali 2 has a preamp out, the Sys is a passive preamp and powered speakers most likely have a preamp and amp so my short answer would be no, leave it out. While I might experiment, the Sys is one more thing that would be between the Vali and the speakers and that is rarely a good idea IMHO.


----------



## GregH

Paladin - I, too, lower the amplifier volume before plugging or unplugging the headphones. Also, when powering everything up I turn on the Asgard and wait for it to get up to full power (it's running Class A), next I turn on the Modi 2 DAC and then my AV 40's. (The AV 40's do not like having a power surge shot at them.)
  
 ruleof72 - I agree with Paladin: skip the SYS. It isn't needed since your Vali will have its own preamp so no benefit in duplicating the circuitry.


----------



## ruleof72

paladin79 said:


> I know you can run straight from the Dac to the Vali and then on to the speakers through the preamp out if you like. Like I said though, I can overdrive my speakers if I am not careful. I am sure there are plenty of people here who know about the Sys.
> I would probably experiment but that is me, with my equipment. Vali 2 has a preamp out, the Sys is a passive preamp and powered speakers most likely have a preamp and amp so my short answer would be no, leave it out. While I might experiment, the Sys is one more thing that would be between the Vali and the speakers and that is rarely a good idea IMHO.


 
  
  


gregh said:


> Paladin - I, too, lower the amplifier volume before plugging or unplugging the headphones. Also, when powering everything up I turn on the Asgard and wait for it to get up to full power (it's running Class A), next I turn on the Modi 2 DAC and then my AV 40's. (The AV 40's do not like having a power surge shot at them.)
> 
> ruleof72 - I agree with Paladin: skip the SYS. It isn't needed since your Vali will have its own preamp so no benefit in duplicating the circuitry.


 
 Thanks. That makes sense to me now. I guess when I get the amp I can ditch the Sys. Now the question is which amp to get. The Vali 2 is definitely affordable but I'm strangely drawn to the Valhalla 2 since it is a "pure" tube amp. I wonder how it would drive the AKG K7xx? I know the low impedence of the AKG might not be the best match but the efficiency is pretty high.
  
 Any feedback.....?


----------



## Paladin79

I am pleased with the Valhalla 2 and like the fact that I can swap tubes and shape the sound a bit. I doubt I have hooked more than five brands of headphones to the amp so there are certainly people with more experience who can help you with your choices.
 I have a couple solid state amps but I lean toward the tube equipment personally; each to his or her own. 
  
 I do hope to hear the MicroZOTL 2 (based on the patents of David Berning) the next time I am in DC and may grab one but it is triple the price of the Valhalla 2. I like choices and I like the fact that people are building equipment here.


----------



## artur9

I have this hope that Schiit will make a rack for their stuff like SOTM does.  Or would the SOTM rack work?  Or is just stacking them good enough?
  
 Here's the rack I mean: http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/audioarack/


----------



## TuRbii

I've had the vali 2 for a couple of months now and I couldn't be happier. I've been interested in adding some speakers to my setup for when I'm watching videos, editing, or working on music or anything else that I need a break from my headphones. Does anyone have any suggestions of some speakers that would pair well? I'm not trying to spend too much money and don't need anything crazy. Just something small that won't break the bank. I have some really old Logitech speakers that I've been using for about 8 years and they've finally died on me.
 Guitar Center has a few options for $150 and under. I was looking at the http://www.guitarcenter.com/Mackie/CR3-3-Creative-Reference-Multimedia-Monitors-Pair.gc


----------



## landroni

turbii said:


> I've had the vali 2 for a couple of months now and I couldn't be happier. I've been interested in adding some speakers to my setup for when I'm watching videos, editing, or working on music or anything else that I need a break from my headphones. Does anyone have any suggestions of some speakers that would pair well? I'm not trying to spend too much money and don't need anything crazy. Just something small that won't break the bank. I have some really old Logitech speakers that I've been using for about 8 years and they've finally died on me.
> Guitar Center has a few options for $150 and under. I was looking at the http://www.guitarcenter.com/Mackie/CR3-3-Creative-Reference-Multimedia-Monitors-Pair.gc


 

 Consider the Dayton B652:
 http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/home-audio-video/finished-speakers/bookshelf-speakers/b652-air-6-1-2-bookshelf-speaker-pair-with-am.html
 https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-B652-AIR-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00NOA58RS
  
  
 Seems like one of the best entry values around, and I've heard of people using them with $10K electronics upstream with some degree of satisfaction. At 50 bucks, it won't break the bank...


----------



## TuRbii

landroni said:


> Consider the Dayton B652:
> http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/home-audio-video/finished-speakers/bookshelf-speakers/b652-air-6-1-2-bookshelf-speaker-pair-with-am.html
> https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-B652-AIR-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00NOA58RS
> 
> ...


 
 The Vali 2 preamp out is enough power for these I'm assuming?
 Thank you for the suggestion, much appreciated.


----------



## Paladin79

Parts Express carries the Dayton B652 as well as several other speaker pairs in a similar price range. I have only run powered speakers from my Valhalla 2 but if speakers are efficient enough the vali 2 might push them.  I checked out the spec sheets I could find on the B652 but they did not give any minimum power requirements, only maximum power handling ability.


----------



## TuRbii

I noticed the Dayton audio speakers only have speaker cable adapters. I don't have a stereo unit and wanted to run the speakers straight from my vali 2 because I use my pc as my main audio source. I would need to find speakers that have rca in and I'll be good to go?


----------



## Defiant00

turbii said:


> I noticed the Dayton audio speakers only have speaker cable adapters. I don't have a stereo unit and wanted to run the speakers straight from my vali 2 because I use my pc as my main audio source. I would need to find speakers that have rca in and I'll be good to go?


 
  
 You'll need powered speakers then, the Dayton ones are passive so they need a separate amp. For the price I quite like my B652s, I run them using a cheap amp from Amazon.


----------



## Paladin79

turbii said:


> I noticed the Dayton audio speakers only have speaker cable adapters. I don't have a stereo unit and wanted to run the speakers straight from my vali 2 because I use my pc as my main audio source. I would need to find speakers that have rca in and I'll be good to go?


 
 If the Vali 2 can run those speakers you can go from an RCA connection to two speaker wires. I cannot comment on the ability of the vali 2 to do that but I could certainly help you out with a couple cables if those speakers are your choice. No charge.


----------



## Letmebefrank

turbii said:


> I noticed the Dayton audio speakers only have speaker cable adapters. I don't have a stereo unit and wanted to run the speakers straight from my vali 2 because I use my pc as my main audio source. I would need to find speakers that have rca in and I'll be good to go?


 
  
 The dayton audio speakers will require a separate amp like the SMSL SA-50. To run straight off your vali 2 preamp outs you will need studio monitors with built in amplifiers.


----------



## Paladin79

letmebefrank said:


> The dayton audio speakers will require a separate amp like the SMSL SA-50. To run straight off your vali 2 preamp outs you will need studio monitors with built in amplifiers.


 
 Nice to see someone out of Indy, I am just a little south of there myself.  I was hesitant to say the pre-amp out would not push those speakers since people were recommending them but I am glad you cleared the air.


----------



## landroni

turbii said:


> I noticed the Dayton audio speakers only have speaker cable adapters. I don't have a stereo unit and wanted to run the speakers straight from my vali 2 because I use my pc as my main audio source. I would need to find speakers that have rca in and I'll be good to go?


 

 Yes, sorry, as others have mentioned the Daytons require a speaker amp, so won't work with Vali 2.
  
 A better choice would be a pair of powered monitors. Like the Mackie Mr5 MK II:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/782824/schiit-fire-and-save-matches-bifrost-multibit-is-here/255#post_11971477
 http://www.amazon.com/Mackie-Series-MR5mk3-Powered-Monitor/dp/B00EA1U1X6
  
 Not overly expensive either, at 100 bucks.


----------



## ryry1

Anyone using a Schiit Asgard 2 with Denon AH-D600's?  I just got my Asgard 2 in today. I have my windows and tidal volume set to 100%, but if I take the amp above 25% on high gain or 50% on low gain, I hear some distortion in the background at all times, wondering if that's normal?  I can't hear it until I hit those volume points, though.


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> Anyone using a Schiit Asgard 2 with Denon AH-D600's?  I just got my Asgard 2 in today. I have my windows and tidal volume set to 100%, but if I take the amp above 25% on high gain or 50% on low gain, I hear some distortion in the background at all times, wondering if that's normal?  I can't hear it until I hit those volume points, though.


 
  
 What is your source?


----------



## ryry1

madwolfa said:


> What is your source?


 
 Soundblaster Titanium X-Fi
  
 When I completely unplug my RCA from the amp I can still hear a SLIGHT noise at 100% volume (very minimal), but it's not the same kind of buzzing I hear when the RCA plugs are in.  I have tried moving them around to see if it's some kind of interference but nothing has changed from moving the cord around.
  
 Also when I have the RCA's unplugged from the sound card if they touch exposed skin it also causes the loud buzzing noise, same as when its plugged into the source.


----------



## TuRbii

defiant00 said:


> You'll need powered speakers then, the Dayton ones are passive so they need a separate amp. For the price I quite like my B652s, I run them using a cheap amp from Amazon.


 
 What amp are you using?


----------



## Defiant00

turbii said:


> What amp are you using?


 
  
 Wasn't able to find it before, but took another look.
  
 It's this (or similar, not sure if this is the exact model): https://www.amazon.com/Lepy-LP-2024A-Amplifier-Stereo-Supply/dp/B00ULRFQ1A
  
 Very inexpensive and cheaply put together, but does work reasonably.


----------



## hodgjy

ryry1 said:


> Soundblaster Titanium X-Fi
> 
> When I completely unplug my RCA from the amp I can still hear a SLIGHT noise at 100% volume (very minimal), but it's not the same kind of buzzing I hear when the RCA plugs are in.  I have tried moving them around to see if it's some kind of interference but nothing has changed from moving the cord around.
> 
> Also when I have the RCA's unplugged from the sound card if they touch exposed skin it also causes the loud buzzing noise, same as when its plugged into the source.


 
 This is normal. No gear is noise-free at 100% gain.
  
 Also, since you maxed out your computer volume and you're hearing distortion, it's probably because the amp is clipping. Turn down the computer volume.


----------



## ryry1

hodgjy said:


> This is normal. No gear is noise-free at 100% gain.
> 
> Also, since you maxed out your computer volume and you're hearing distortion, it's probably because the amp is clipping. Turn down the computer volume.


 
 Well like I said, with the headphones and RCA cables connected, I can hear distortion at less than half volume.  I have turned the PC master volume down and that makes no difference with the buzzing noise.  It's still 100% just as audible with the PC volume turned down.


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> Soundblaster Titanium X-Fi
> 
> Also when I have the RCA's unplugged from the sound card if they touch exposed skin it also causes the loud buzzing noise, same as when its plugged into the source.


 
  
 So I'm assuming you're using Line Out from your Sound Blaster, so no "double-amping" involved?
  
 Well, that's what you get with a noisy power in your PC. And then you might also have a ground loop (buzzing). Is your computer plugged into the same power outlet with Asgard 2?
  
 And hence why external DAC is a much preferred source.


----------



## ryry1

madwolfa said:


> So I'm assuming you're using Line Out from your Sound Blaster, so no "double-amping" involved?
> 
> Well, that's what you get with a noisy power in your PC. And then you might also have a ground loop (buzzing). Is your computer plugged into the same power outlet with Asgard 2?
> 
> And hence why external DAC is a much preferred source.


 
 Yeah, line out from the SB card.  The PC and Asgard are plugged into the same APC surge protector but I attempted to unplug the Asgard and plugged it into a different outlet (in the same room) and that didn't help any.  It's not really "annoying", as I probably won't listen above 50% gain, but that's just music.  It's kinda annoying when I'm playing games and I can hear a constant low buzz when there's no ambient music going on in the game.


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> Yeah, line out from the SB card.  The PC and Asgard are plugged into the same APC surge protector but I attempted to unplug the Asgard and plugged it into a different outlet (in the same room) and that didn't help any.  It's not really "annoying", as I probably won't listen above 50% gain, but that's just music.  It's kinda annoying when I'm playing games and I can hear a constant low buzz when there's no ambient music going on in the game.


 
  
 I would strongly recommend investing into a DAC, even the cheapest Modi 2 would be a noticeable improvement (or a Bifrost to make a nice stack).


----------



## ryry1

madwolfa said:


> I would strongly recommend investing into a DAC, even the cheapest Modi 2 would be a noticeable improvement (or a Bifrost to make a nice stack).


 
 Any recommendations on things I can do other than buying a DAC to find out if the soundblaster is at fault?


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> Any recommendations on things I can do other than buying a DAC to find out if the soundblaster is at fault?


 
  
 Hearing faint noise at 100% is absolutely normal, but having it at 25% or 50% just indicates a noisy source. It's a huge challenge to get the clean _analog_ signal out of the PC.


----------



## 520RanchBro

My A2 only gets noisy if I'm using my Mani and I have it cranked to like 2 O'Clock. Pretty much have to crank it all the way up to get noise when the Bifrost is the source.


----------



## ryry1

madwolfa said:


> Hearing faint noise at 100% is absolutely normal, but having it at 25% or 50% just indicates a noisy source. It's a huge challenge to get the clean _analog_ signal out of the PC.


 
 Yeah, hmm.  I can definitely afford it, I just feel like I want to test some other possibilities before jumping straight to the most expensive conclusion.  If I moved to a Bifrost and still had the same issue I would be pissed.  When the headphones are plugged directly into the soundcard headphone jack there are no issues.  I'm not sure if it's considered "amplified" or not, though.  Are ground loop issues really common, and could Schiits recommendation of purchasing a Ebtech HumX possibly fix the issue or does it not sound like a ground loop issue at all?  And I guess I could always test another RCA cable, or get a RCA to 3.5 converter and use my ipod as a source and see if the buzzing is persistent on that.


----------



## madwolfa

It's not the A2 that is noisy in your case, but Mani.. which being a very high gain device (like any other phono preamp) has pretty high noise floor. Amplifying very weak signals to line levels makes it very sensitive, naturally.


----------



## ryry1

So if I were to ditch my X-Fi Titanium HD sound card (which is still more or less considered the "king" of internal sound cards) and switch to a Bifrost, besides reducing/eliminating the humming issue, is there really going to be an audible difference worth that kind of money?  I am looking at the Bifrost Multibit, I want one with a black finish to match the black finish Asgard 2 I got.  Sell me on this ****, $599 isn't cheap.


----------



## Bonobo Loco

I recently picked up the Lyr2 and need a DAC to go with it. For the Bifrost owners, is the multibit option a big deal or no? Thanks in advance.


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> So if I were to ditch my X-Fi Titanium HD sound card (which is still more or less considered the "king" of internal sound cards) and switch to a Bifrost, besides reducing/eliminating the humming issue, is there really going to be an audible difference worth that kind of money?  I am looking at the Bifrost Multibit, I want one with a black finish to match the black finish Asgard 2 I got.  Sell me on this ****, $599 isn't cheap.


 
  
 It's hard to say if YOU will notice a difference.. I love my Bimby. Schiit has the 15 days return policy in case you don't like it. By the way, someone's selling one for $500 in FS section at the moment... (it's probably not black, though, also no warranty for used schiit).


----------



## madwolfa

bonobo loco said:


> I recently picked up the Lyr2 and need a DAC to go with it. For the Bifrost owners, is the multibit option a big deal or no? Thanks in advance.


 
  
 I've heard regular Bifrost is really good, but I think I like mine more after Multibit upgrade (I had an Uber).


----------



## theveterans

Multibit has better synergy with bright headphones while Delta Sigma is better with warmer headphones IMO.


----------



## madwolfa

theveterans said:


> Multibit has better synergy with bright headphones while Delta Sigma is better with warmer headphones IMO.


 
  
 Sounds magical with HD600, which is on a neutral-brightish side.


----------



## crazychile

ryry1 said:


> > So if I were to ditch my X-Fi Titanium HD sound card (which is still more or less considered the "king" of internal sound cards)


 
 Not trying to offend, but king of internal sound cards is sort of like saying you have really nice rims on an '86 Caprice. It will never be a Ferrari no matter how much bling you slap on it. Internal sound cards are at a huge disadvantage from the very start.


> is there really going to be an audible difference worth that kind of money?


 
 That depends on your expectations and past experiences, but my experience has been that a decent external DAC gets you a lot closer to hearing the source the way it was meant to be heard. If you play mostly MP3s then a Modi is just fine. If you are using something lossless, the Bifrost is totally worth the money. Maybe consider the base Bifrost model. You can always have it upgraded to Multibit later.
  


> I want one with a black finish to match the black finish Asgard 2 I got.


 
 Good luck. You may have to wait a while because they don't come available very often.


----------



## Paladin79

crazychile said:


> Not trying to offend, but king of internal sound cards is sort of like saying you have really nice rims on an '86 Caprice. It will never be a Ferrari no matter how much bling you slap on it. Internal sound cards are at a huge disadvantage from the very start.
> That depends on your expectations and past experiences, but my experience has been that a decent external DAC gets you a lot closer to hearing the source the way it was meant to be heard. If you play mostly MP3s then a Modi is just fine. If you are using something lossless, the Bifrost is totally worth the money. Maybe consider the base Bifrost model. You can always have it upgraded to Multibit later.
> 
> Good luck. You may have to wait a while because they don't come available very often.


 

 I know of a Bifrost Uber for sale but unfortunately it is in silver.


----------



## ryry1

So I have an update with my issue.  This morning I woke up and I unplugged the RCA from the source and turned the Asgard gain up.  There is still an audible buzzing with the RCA plugged into the Asgard, despite not being plugged into my source.  I can hear feedback get louder when I place my fingers on the gain knob, or the ends of the RCA cables.  I unplugged the Asgard and took it into the bathroom with my headphones and the RCA cable, plugged it into a newer outlet in there and BOOM, like 90% of the noise I was hearing is now gone.  Can we assume this is a ground loop issue? What should I purchase to eliminate this problem in my office?  Moving my entire office into the bathroom is not a possibility 
  
 That being said, I can also definitely here a different type of noise once the RCA is plugged into my PC.  So there is some noise coming from that as well.  I will have to go ahead and ditch the sound card.  I will say I previously had a Magni hooked up to my PC, different PC, same sound card, and I didn't experience this issue in the past.  I have since built a new PC and re-used ONLY the Titanium-HD sound card and I guess it's just not liking this new setup.


----------



## manpowre

ryry1 said:


> So I have an update with my issue.  This morning I woke up and I unplugged the RCA from the source and turned the Asgard gain up.  There is still an audible buzzing with the RCA plugged into the Asgard, despite not being plugged into my source.  I can hear feedback get louder when I place my fingers on the gain knob, or the ends of the RCA cables.  I unplugged the Asgard and took it into the bathroom with my headphones and the RCA cable, plugged it into a newer outlet in there and BOOM, like 90% of the noise I was hearing is now gone.  Can we assume this is a ground loop issue? What should I purchase to eliminate this problem in my office?  Moving my entire office into the bathroom is not a possibility
> 
> That being said, I can also definitely here a different type of noise once the RCA is plugged into my PC.  So there is some noise coming from that as well.  I will have to go ahead and ditch the sound card.  I will say I previously had a Magni hooked up to my PC, different PC, same sound card, and I didn't experience this issue in the past.  I have since built a new PC and re-used ONLY the Titanium-HD sound card and I guess it's just not liking this new setup.


 
 Just get an electrician to check your ground and electrical outlet in your office. thats it! In many houses today ground isnt properly attached in bedrooms and living rooms, but in so called wet-rooms like Kitchen, Batrooms and washing rooms they have to be properly attached due to higher humidity and risk of water spill.


----------



## 520RanchBro

madwolfa said:


> It's not the A2 that is noisy in your case, but Mani.. which being a very high gain device (like any other phono preamp) has pretty high noise floor. Amplifying very weak signals to line levels makes it very sensitive, naturally.


 
 Yes, I'm aware of this, just giving the idea of the threshold of noise with multiple sources for ryry1. When a phono preamp is quieter than a digital source (in his case) somethings not quite right.


----------



## madwolfa

520ranchbro said:


> When a phono preamp is quieter than a digital source (in his case) somethings not quite right.


 
  
 Absolutely. However, in his case the source is actually analog (RCA Line Out from the PC soundcard), which is the main culprit.


----------



## landroni

madwolfa said:


> Absolutely. However, in his case the source is actually analog (RCA Line Out from the PC soundcard), which is the main culprit.


 

 It is possible to get "soundcards" that output digitally (e.g. SPDIF):
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Musiland-digital-times-Sound-Card-PCI-S-PDIF-optical-Computer-PC-Internal-/272189434480?hash=item3f5fc12a70:g:T2cAAOSwT6pVrVRu

  
 If you use optical (and a quality glass cable like Lifatec), then you rid yourself of any electric interference from the source when passing the bits to an external DAC...


----------



## ryry1

madwolfa said:


> Absolutely. However, in his case the source is actually analog (RCA Line Out from the PC soundcard), which is the main culprit.


 
 So I got the issue solved with the grounding, but yeah the sound card is definitely still at fault for the majority of the issues, guess ole faithful will have to be replaced.  I have the Asgard plugged into my surge now with everything else, no more interference from that.  The RCA connected to the PC is super noisy, I got a RCA to 3.5mm splitter and plugged the Asgard into my iPhone and I can turn the Asgard up to near full gain with no distortion or buzzing, so that solves my problem.
  
 In my last PC I was using the same sound card with a Magni and a pair of Mad Dog Pros, didn't have this issue then.  Since, I have upgraded to all new PC components, so there's gotta be some kind of interference and I'm kinda sick of dealing with the PCI sound card anyway, it's taking up an extra slot on my motherboard that could be used for more GPU power, so on to an external DAC it is.


----------



## 520RanchBro

madwolfa said:


> Absolutely. However, in his case the source is actually analog (RCA Line Out from the PC soundcard), which is the main culprit.


 
  
 Well it's still a digital source is it not? The line out will skip the amplifier section, no? Making it essentially like any other DAC.
  
  
 An external DAC using its own power supply is a good idea. Before I had an external DAC I would get similar noise from my PC, an external DAC solved that. Though in my case, the Modi still ran on USB power from the PC but the noise was gone.


----------



## hodgjy

I'll also throw this out there:
  
 Even though I'm a huge Schiit fanboy and own several of their components, it's not all rainbows and unicorns. Despite their claimed extremely low noise figures, I've found their unbalanced gear to have some of the highest noise of any components I've ever heard. Their balanced gear is ultra silent, but their unbalanced offerings leave much to be desired. Best case scenario, I have dirty power and their gear is extremely sensitive to noise. Worst case, their gear is just noisy.
  
 However, since the noise is only audible at above listening volumes, and you can't hear it with music anyway, it's not a major issue for me. I like the Schiit voicing and will continue to stick with it.


----------



## landroni

520ranchbro said:


> madwolfa said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely. However, in his case the source is actually analog (RCA Line Out from the PC soundcard), which is the main culprit.
> ...


 

 The source would be digital if it transmitted bits. If it transmits voltages (i.e. line out), then it doesn't matter if it goes through an amplifier section or not: the output is analog and may be catching electric interference from the noisy computer.


----------



## 520RanchBro

landroni said:


> The source would be digital if it transmitted bits. If it transmits voltages (i.e. line out), then it doesn't matter if it goes through an amplifier section or not: the output is analog and may be catching electric interference from the noisy computer.


 
  
 DACs are commonly referred to as sources, at least on this website they are. They convert digital signals to analog, this is purely semantics but no one considers a Bifrost an analog source because it uses RCA outputs. By that standard every DAC is an analog source because it outputs an analog signal for an amp to use.


----------



## madwolfa

520ranchbro said:


> Well it's still a digital source is it not? The line out will skip the amplifier section, no? Making it essentially like any other DAC.


 
  
 Yes, line out would skip the amplifier section, but it's still a vulnerable analog signal inside an extremely noisy environment (switched power supply and bunch of high frequency components). Most good DACs are using linear/regulated power supplies and don't have gigahertz CPUs running in them, so it's not an issue.


----------



## 520RanchBro

madwolfa said:


> Yes, line out would skip the amplifier section, but it's still an analog signal inside an extremely noisy environment (switched power supply and bunch of high frequency components). Most good DACs are using linear/regulated power supplies and don't have gigahertz CPUs running in them, so it's not an issue.


 
  
 I'm not debating that I'm just saying classifying a DAC as an analog source is incorrect. Every digital source has to output an analog signal or we would not hear anything.


----------



## madwolfa

520ranchbro said:


> I'm not debating that I'm just saying classifying a DAC as an analog source is incorrect. Every digital source has to output an analog signal or we would not hear anything.


 
  
 I guess the problem is that we don't even consider the computer sound cards as DACs. However, technically they, of course, are.


----------



## 520RanchBro

madwolfa said:


> I guess the problem is that we don't even consider the computer sound cards as DACs. However, technically they, of course, are.


 
 I still think the terminology of calling a DAC a source is weird too, I always thought of the computer, media player, etc. as the source. But I guess ultimately it's where the sound comes from


----------



## RickB

hodgjy said:


> I'll also throw this out there:
> 
> Even though I'm a huge Schiit fanboy and own several of their components, it's not all rainbows and unicorns. Despite their claimed extremely low noise figures, I've found their unbalanced gear to have some of the highest noise of any components I've ever heard. Their balanced gear is ultra silent, but their unbalanced offerings leave much to be desired. Best case scenario, I have dirty power and their gear is extremely sensitive to noise. Worst case, their gear is just noisy.
> 
> However, since the noise is only audible at above listening volumes, and you can't hear it with music anyway, it's not a major issue for me. I like the Schiit voicing and will continue to stick with it.


 
 I've found their amps with grounded plugs to be extremely sensitive to dirty power. Their amps that use wallwarts don't have this problem. I finally solved this problem with my Valhalla 2 by getting a power conditioner.


----------



## 520RanchBro

With my grounded Schiit components I've had no noise problems at all. I will say the Mani, while a bit more balanced and revealing than my Phono Box S, is a bit noisier. Really only noticeable when I'm listening at loud volumes on quieter passages though.


----------



## ryry1

madwolfa said:


> I guess the problem is that we don't even consider the computer sound cards as DACs. However, technically they, of course, are.


 
 So I checked with Schiit and they had some of the 4490 Bifrosts in stock in black, so I went ahead and placed the order.  I decided against the multibit for now, I think the regular Bifrost will be a worthy successor to my sound card.  Freeing up room in my PC case is the icing on the cake.  Truth be told, I have had a Soundblaster sound card for years, but even as a hardcore gamer, nothing supports the old X-Fi tech anymore (and hasn't in years) so having an internal soundcard literally has no advantages for gamers or music lovers alike.


----------



## 520RanchBro

ryry1 said:


> So I checked with Schiit and they had some of the 4490 Bifrosts in stock in black, so I went ahead and placed the order.  I decided against the multibit for now, I think the regular Bifrost will be a worthy successor to my sound card.  Freeing up room in my PC case is the icing on the cake.  Truth be told, I have had a Soundblaster sound card for years, but even as a hardcore gamer, nothing supports the old X-Fi tech anymore (and hasn't in years) so having an internal soundcard literally has no advantages for gamers or music lovers alike.


 
 Half the time I use my 4490-frost, it's for gaming. You'll love it! There's a handful of people that prefer it to the Multibit as well.


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> So I checked with Schiit and they had some of the 4490 Bifrosts in stock in black, so I went ahead and placed the order.  I decided against the multibit for now, I think the regular Bifrost will be a worthy successor to my sound card.  Freeing up room in my PC case is the icing on the cake.  Truth be told, I have had a Soundblaster sound card for years, but even as a hardcore gamer, nothing supports the old X-Fi tech anymore (and hasn't in years) so having an internal soundcard literally has no advantages for gamers or music lovers alike.


 
  
 Agree.


----------



## Letmebefrank

ryry1 said:


> So I checked with Schiit and they had some of the 4490 Bifrosts in stock in black, so I went ahead and placed the order.  I decided against the multibit for now, I think the regular Bifrost will be a worthy successor to my sound card.  Freeing up room in my PC case is the icing on the cake.  Truth be told, I have had a Soundblaster sound card for years, but even as a hardcore gamer, nothing supports the old X-Fi tech anymore (and hasn't in years) so having an internal soundcard literally has no advantages for gamers or music lovers alike.


 
  
 I use the toslink output from my Xonar DX to my Modi2Uber, and it is dead silent. The Xonar DX has built in tech to specifically push 24/192 over toslink without degradation, so thats one of the main reasons I bought it. I use the "hi-fi" setting which turns off all processing and just sends the pure signal straight through to the DAC.


----------



## ryry1

letmebefrank said:


> I use the toslink output from my Xonar DX to my Modi2Uber, and it is dead silent. The Xonar DX has built in tech to specifically push 24/192 over toslink without degradation, so thats one of the main reasons I bought it. I use the "hi-fi" setting which turns off all processing and just sends the pure signal straight through to the DAC.


 
 Interesting, I imagine that the X-Fi Titanium does as well, I'll look into that -- in fact, I may leave the card in at first to test Toslink versus the Bifrosts USB connection and see if I can tell any difference in sound quality and noise.  Perhaps going over Toslink and bypassing the Soundblasters DAC would eliminate the noise, perhaps not.  It's worth trying just to see.  If it turns out to be a dud, the soundblaster will be put back in it's box and forever collect dust upon my shelf.


----------



## landroni

520ranchbro said:


> I still think the terminology of calling a DAC a source is weird too, I always thought of the computer, media player, etc. as the source. But I guess ultimately it's where the sound comes from


 

 A computer/media player/streamer will serve as a digital source to a DAC, because it transmits bits to the DAC. A DAC will be an analogue source to an amp (or to the transducers, where feasible), because it transmits voltages (not bits). The amp will be an analog source to the transducers. It's semantics, of course, but that's roughly how it goes. So if you're concerned with an amp, then yes, the upstream source you feed to the amp would be the DAC...


----------



## Letmebefrank

ryry1 said:


> Interesting, I imagine that the X-Fi Titanium does as well, I'll look into that -- in fact, I may leave the card in at first to test Toslink versus the Bifrosts USB connection and see if I can tell any difference in sound quality and noise.  Perhaps going over Toslink and bypassing the Soundblasters DAC would eliminate the noise, perhaps not.  It's worth trying just to see.  If it turns out to be a dud, the soundblaster will be put back in it's box and forever collect dust upon my shelf.


 
  
 Toslink doesn't transmit noise as it doesnt have any electrical conductors, so you should be good in that way.
  
 I've compared my toslink to the USB input of the Modi2Uber and I cant tell the difference, but that's one less USB cable I have to have connected to my PC. I have 4 USB 2.0 and 4 USB 3.0 ports on the back of my Z97 sabertooth MK1, and they are all taken except 1.


----------



## ryry1

letmebefrank said:


> Toslink doesn't transmit noise as it doesnt have any electrical conductors, so you should be good in that way.
> 
> I've compared my toslink to the USB input of the Modi2Uber and I cant tell the difference, but that's one less USB cable I have to have connected to my PC. I have 4 USB 2.0 and 4 USB 3.0 ports on the back of my Z97 sabertooth MK1, and they are all taken except 1.


 
 Very cool, I'll give Toslink a shot.  Honestly it's funny because I have been out of the headphone game for a while, living at home and using my Adam A7X studio monitors for music 100% of the time, and I didn't really care about quality headphone components as much (as headphones were used specifically for "competitive" online gaming where I needed to hear), but I recently moved back into an apartment building where blasting my speakers is a big no-no so it's back to the headphone game full time for me, hence why I began this endeavor.


----------



## madwolfa

I have to use a long optical cable from my computer to the big stereo system to avoid the ground loop hum I have when using USB. At the same time I'm using the USB just fine with my desktop Schiit stack as it's plugged into the same power outlet with my PC.


----------



## manpowre

letmebefrank said:


> Toslink doesn't transmit noise as it doesnt have any electrical conductors, so you should be good in that way.
> 
> I've compared my toslink to the USB input of the Modi2Uber and I cant tell the difference, but that's one less USB cable I have to have connected to my PC. I have 4 USB 2.0 and 4 USB 3.0 ports on the back of my Z97 sabertooth MK1, and they are all taken except 1.


 
 Toslink connection to DAC, the timing of the digital packets are created by the host not the DAC. So. a low en computer with a cheap motherboard dont have a great oscillator for timing of the packets. Eg. the Chromecast Audio has toslink, but it creates jitter since the timing isnt the best. This is why Berkeley usp to SPDIF is exceptional in the timing of the digital packets sent to the dac.
  
 This is why I use the Intona USB isolator which galvanize the USB itself so no electrical circuit is transferred between host computer and the DAC. But it also has a really good Oscillator to help the DAC time the packets being sent!


----------



## hodgjy

manpowre said:


> Toslink connection to DAC, the timing of the digital packets are created by the host not the DAC. So. a low en computer with a cheap motherboard dont have a great oscillator for timing of the packets. Eg. the Chromecast Audio has toslink, but it creates jitter since the timing isnt the best. This is why Berkeley usp to SPDIF is exceptional in the timing of the digital packets sent to the dac.
> 
> This is why I use the Intona USB isolator which galvanize the USB itself so no electrical circuit is transferred between host computer and the DAC. But it also has a really good Oscillator to help the DAC time the packets being sent!


 
 The difference in jitter between optical vs. usb cannot be heard by human ears, and even if it could, it's a non-issue because DACs reclock the incoming data. It's not a problem.


----------



## Paladin79

manpowre said:


> Toslink connection to DAC, the timing of the digital packets are created by the host not the DAC. So. a low en computer with a cheap motherboard dont have a great oscillator for timing of the packets. Eg. the Chromecast Audio has toslink, but it creates jitter since the timing isnt the best. This is why Berkeley usp to SPDIF is exceptional in the timing of the digital packets sent to the dac.
> 
> This is why I use the Intona USB isolator which galvanize the USB itself so no electrical circuit is transferred between host computer and the DAC. But it also has a really good Oscillator to help the DAC time the packets being sent!


 

 Very interesting. I will have to check the specs on my Dell, it may be better than I realized lol. It has toslink out and they sell it as a decent AV machine. I have run the toslink straight to a Martin Logan sound bar with DAC and it works well. I also run a quality usb out to Teac and OPPO dacs with no issues. I nearly replaced it a month ago but I am glad I held onto it now.


----------



## Letmebefrank

manpowre said:


> Toslink connection to DAC, the timing of the digital packets are created by the host not the DAC. So. a low en computer with a cheap motherboard dont have a great oscillator for timing of the packets. Eg. the Chromecast Audio has toslink, but it creates jitter since the timing isnt the best. This is why Berkeley usp to SPDIF is exceptional in the timing of the digital packets sent to the dac.
> 
> This is why I use the Intona USB isolator which galvanize the USB itself so no electrical circuit is transferred between host computer and the DAC. But it also has a really good Oscillator to help the DAC time the packets being sent!


 
  
 From the Xonar DX spec sheet:
  
"High-bandwidth TOS-Link optical transmitter supports 192KHz/24bit"
  
Its probably better than the el-cheapo transmitter on low end motherboards. Either way it sounds great to my ears. I don't have any tight bends and I've never noticed any noise from bandwidth constraints.


----------



## manpowre

hodgjy said:


> The difference in jitter between optical vs. usb cannot be heard by human ears, and even if it could, it's a non-issue because DACs reclock the incoming data. It's not a problem.


 
 Theres a reason why Berkeley usb to spdif converter is in business.
  
 Just wondering, what do you think of USB galvanized isolation, is it hearable by human ears with or without it ?


----------



## madwolfa

manpowre said:


> Just wondering, what do you think of USB galvanized isolation, is it hearable by human ears with or without it ?


 
  
 Only if you had a ground loop problem to begin with... then galvanic decoupling would make sense.


----------



## manpowre

madwolfa said:


> Only if you have a ground loop problem to begin with...


 
 Right, well I wish you one day listen to a dac that doesnt have galvanic usb isolation and then try A/B test with and without a galvanized module like the Intona USB Isolator.
  
 Look at Briscati M1 renewed dac, it got galvanized isolated usb in the latest release.
 Hegel HD25 and HD30 got galvanized USB.


----------



## hodgjy

manpowre said:


> Theres a reason why Berkeley usb to spdif converter is in business.
> 
> Just wondering, what do you think of USB galvanized isolation, is it hearable by human ears with or without it ?


 
 The $30,000 speaker cable companies exist for a reason, too--because people will pay for it.
  
 Galvanic isolation is great when you have ground loops. That's one reason they are in business. Another is people believe it sounds better, even if they don't have ground loop problems. The key word there is "believe." To each his own.


----------



## Letmebefrank

manpowre said:


> Theres a reason why Berkeley usb to spdif converter is in business.
> 
> Just wondering, what do you think of USB galvanized isolation, is it hearable by human ears with or without it ?


 
  
 People buy $10,000 products that electrically charge speaker wires, and they buy $200,000 speakers with $100,000 amplifiers. Just because there's a market and someone buys it doesn't mean it actually makes a difference.


----------



## madwolfa

manpowre said:


> Right, well I wish you one day listen to a dac that doesnt have galvanic usb isolation and then try A/B test with and without a galvanized module like the Intona USB Isolator.
> 
> Look at Briscati M1 renewed dac, it got galvanized isolated usb in the latest release.
> Hegel HD25 and HD30 got galvanized USB.


 
  
 Sorry, I'm just not a snake oil believer. I'm not trying to find solutions for non-existing problems.


----------



## manpowre

letmebefrank said:


> People buy $10,000 products that electrically charge speaker wires, and they buy $200,000 speakers with $100,000 amplifiers. Just because there's a market and someone buys it doesn't mean it actually makes a difference.


 
 Well the Intona cost 230 dollars from germany, and it does help eg. the Yggdrasil. I have A/B tested this, and it does make a difference both on Yggdrasil and on my Oppo HA-1. Im aware of the psychological part, the wish to be better with it.
  
 But, I can not hear the difference on both HD25 and HD30 with the isolator as those units actually have galvanic isolation on the usb port itself.
  
 on a general side note, I dont believe in 1000 dollars usb cables. the impedance difference on the 2 power chords and the 2 digital chords from so called audophile usb cables compared to normal usb cables thats certified for USB2 or 3 is not attacking the issue, rather reducing it slightly. But galvanic isolation and a good oscillator on the dac side of the galvanic isolation to time the packets is the main challenge as a general purpose unit as a laptop or a PC has alot of different modules that create noise on the power lines and also on the digital circuits of a usb interface.


----------



## madwolfa

All you're saying is correct, but whether it actually makes _any_ perceptible difference is a moot (unless you really have some very obvious issues such as ground loop hum).


----------



## manpowre

madwolfa said:


> All you're saying is correct, but whether it actually makes _any_ perceptible difference is a moot (unless you really have some very obvious issues such as ground loop hum).


 
 On my Oppo HA-1 I can measure the difference with an ADC doing spectrum. I just got the Yggdrasil, and havent got the time to do the measurements yet, but its qued for what Ill do anytime soon.


----------



## ryry1

To those running a Bifrost, I'm currently using Tidal Premium with JRiver in the background using ASIO via the Sound Blaster card.  Once my Bifrost arrives, is it recommended to get the ASIO drivers off the Schiit website or use WASAPI or DirectSound or what are people mostly using?  I prefer ASIO and swear I can still hear a difference over Windows DirectSound,  so that's what I've been using to this date for music.


----------



## theveterans

Spotify ASIO sounds better than Tidal WASAPI to me. Jriver bluescreens my computer so I cancelled my Tidal subscription due to it sounding noticeably inferior than Spotify ASIO


----------



## manpowre

theveterans said:


> Spotify ASIO sounds better than Tidal WASAPI to me. Jriver bluescreens my computer so I cancelled my Tidal subscription due to it sounding noticeably inferior than Spotify ASIO


 
 Did you try Tidal HIFI subscription ?


----------



## ryry1

theveterans said:


> Spotify ASIO sounds better than Tidal WASAPI to me. Jriver bluescreens my computer so I cancelled my Tidal subscription due to it sounding noticeably inferior than Spotify ASIO


 
 Hm, I'm really surprised, and I have to disagree personally.  I think even the Tidal 320 AAC is better than Spotify Premium, and the Tidal HIFI Lossless is noticeable.  Even my girlfriend who knows jack **** about anything audio could tell a slight difference between the two when I played them for her.  I actually haven't tried the Tidal WASAPI exclusive mode because I've just always preferred ASIO, and it runs pretty well through JRiver.


----------



## theveterans

Yep. Spotify Premium on ASIO sounds better than Tidal HiFi exclusive mode on my Bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2 setup.


----------



## ryry1

theveterans said:


> Yep. Spotify Premium on ASIO sounds better than Tidal HiFi exclusive mode on my Bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2 setup.


 
 Interesting.  I plan on testing them again when my Bifrost comes in, but I would be extremely surprised.  That being said, it would be a nice surprise because it would save me $9.99 a month from the jump up to Tidal HIFI, $19.99 is pretty steep for a streaming audio service. 
  
 PS - are you using the Fidelify app or how are you doing ASIO through Spotify.  I don't like not using the native Spotify client, Fidelify makes it annoying by having to look things up manually.


----------



## manpowre

theveterans said:


> Yep. Spotify Premium on ASIO sounds better than Tidal HiFi exclusive mode on my Bifrost Multibit and Asgard 2 setup.


 
 Well it just might be that Bitfrost Multibit doesnt support Tidal Hifi ? Im not exactly sure how you run your setup though. But I can hear very clear differenfe between spotify and tidal hifi from a PC to yggdrasil dac. Being tidal hifi the best option Though HDtracks albums are the best with foobar player.


----------



## theveterans

Tr


> PS - are you using the Fidelify app or how are you doing ASIO through Spotify.  I don't like not using the native Spotify client, Fidelify makes it annoying by having to look things up manually.


 
  
 Through Fidelify. Somehow, the sound Fidelify ASIO makes is much more natural sounding than the strident (hyped unnatural sounding treble to my ears) Tidal HiFi exclusive mode. Spotify program/app is akin to Tidal HiFi or 320 kbps. In addition, Foobar ASIO 320 kbps mp3 also sounds very natural (lacking mid-treble harshness and digititis) just like Fidelify. Also Fidelify comes very close to Foobar ASIO CD redbook sound.
  
 FYI, I make playlist through the spotify app (or Web app) then refresh Fidelify to update it.


----------



## theveterans

> Well it just might be that Bitfrost Multibit doesnt support Tidal Hifi ? Im not exactly sure how you run your setup though. But I can hear very clear differenfe between spotify and tidal hifi from a PC to yggdrasil dac. Being tidal hifi the best option Though HDtracks albums are the best with foobar player.


 
  
 There is a clear difference, but Tidal HiFi (both exclusive and directsound) sounds very digital (it's like there's a 7K to 12K treble boost that sounds bright and metallic thin) while Spotify ASIO (via Fidelify)'s treble is thick/shimmery and natural. Heck I can even contest that on my setup, Youtube directsound sounds better than Tidal HiFi.


----------



## Paladin79

There are times when you should agree to disagree. I hope to check out both sites soon, I know my son uses Spotify but I will look into Tidal as well. Is there such a thing as checking out hi res music from each site before you make a choice? I have a portable dac/amp but I would love to have the ability to route hd music through an iphone. So far I only have some hd radio stations that are only available randomly.


----------



## manpowre

paladin79 said:


> There are times when you should agree to disagree. I hope to check out both sites soon, I know my son uses Spotify but I will look into Tidal as well. Is there such a thing as checking out hi res music from each site before you make a choice? I have a portable dac/amp but I would love to have the ability to route hd music through an iphone. So far I only have some hd radio stations that are only available randomly.


 
 Not sure if you can review Tidal hifi, but basically it opens up CD quality on the subscription. Its FLAC files and the reproduction is CD quality uncompressed.
  
 Spotify uses a compress mechanism similar to MP3, and you can clearly hear the compression with mid-range gear. I can hear the issues with compression with my Sennheiser Momentum 2 and a  pocket dac.
  
 If you have apple device such as ipad or iphone, Tidal can stream to a unit that supports this.
  
 Soon tidal will release 24 bit recordings with HIFI subscription, also Chromecast Audio is being released this summer.
  
 Again, this doesnt realle belong to schiit thread, just a comment on your post.


----------



## theveterans

Tidal has their own demo tracks, but I think you can only play them on a web browser. I don't use Spotify program on my desktop (Fidelify rather) but spotify is perfect for me for portable listening. If there's Amarra (Tidal client) for Windows ASIO I would really like to test it against Fidelify and see which sounds better to me.


----------



## Paladin79

I agree this probably does not belong in a Schiit post. In an effort to turn it back that way, I am currently testing several types of headphone cables on my Valhalla 2. I just downloaded some 24/192k Cream. Spoonful is a great test IMHO. Jack Bruce on bass, Ginger Baker drums, and of course Clapton. The Valhalla does a great job but swapping cables is not easy.


----------



## Paladin79

theveterans said:


> Tidal has their own demo tracks, but I think you can only play them on a web browser. I don't use Spotify program on my desktop (Fidelify rather) but spotify is perfect for me for portable listening. If there's Amarra (Tidal client) for Windows ASIO I would really like to test it against Fidelify and see which sounds better to me.


 
 I do most of my serious testing on my home unit anyway so a web browser is fine. I will check out ASIO and Fidelity as well. Right now I am just going through a Pono program, into my Dac then onto a Valhalla 2.


----------



## WardrumMastodon

Thinking about pulling the trigger on a schiit stack/smear whatever you want to call it. Magni 2 uber and Modi 2 uber. 
  
 My biggest hesitation is with having to plug in and power two more devices by my computer. 
 I am not a fan of having cords all over.
  
 Would you guys recommend a different amp/dac or just bite the bullet and get over it?


----------



## theveterans

If you hate cables, Chord Mojo would suit you best


----------



## Paladin79

wardrummastodon said:


> Thinking about pulling the trigger on a schiit stack/smear whatever you want to call it. Magni 2 uber and Modi 2 uber.
> 
> My biggest hesitation is with having to plug in and power two more devices by my computer.
> I am not a fan of having cords all over.
> ...


 
 Chord makes some very good equipment and a combination Dac/amp will save you some space.  I just try to keep RCA interconnects as short as possible but then I can stop and build quality RCA cables as my needs change. The two pieces of Schiit equipment will certainly stack and are offered at such a price that you could buy a good quality portable amp and still have the Magni and Modi in place.
  
 Personally I like options. I run a solid state Dac/amp line out into a Valhalla 2. I can then plug headphones into the solid state amp without shutting off my monitor speakers that are fed by the Valhalla. I can hook up two sets of headphones of varying impedance and quickly swap them between amps to compare them as well as comparing the sound coming out of the speakers. I can run five devices (such as turntable and phono preamp) into the Valhalla 2. If I want simplicity I can run a portable dac/amp off of my laptop and be nowhere near my main computer. With a Pono player I can have just player and headphones which is even simpler. The heart of my home system though is the Valhalla 2, the pre amp out to powered speakers (200 watts) lets others listen to music throughout my house and the Magni 2 would do that for you as well if you so desire.


----------



## Angular Mo

Lyr2 for pure tube liveliness for someone with Tinnitus?

I have been a supporter of Schiit for a while having paid for two upgrades in my BiFrostt, which is now a Bimby... Along with a Vali and a Wyrd. They give good value for the money, and I like supporting an American company.

I have solid-state gear; LH labs Geek Pulse Sfi, and portables; Chord Mojo, Audioquest Dragonfly Red, Zuperdac, I-dsp, ODAC, PA2V2, and iBasso P4 Warbler which is very powerful and fun for opamp rolling.

But, I am now forced to restrict the volume of sound having given myself tinnitus in the right ear with the Mojo ("just one more color change...") and a defective Beyerdynamic DT 990 which I had done not research to discover how notoriously sibilant they are. The Massdrop version had a whole in the fabric filter in the right cup....But I digress.

Can one "get" the Tube Love Liveliness (as I call it) at low to moderate volumes? Or would I be wasting money going this route? 

I am realizing that, beyond the the joy of diversifying my sounds, I may have spent much on intermediate products rather than going "all in" and calling it a day....at least for a couple of years.


----------



## Paladin79

Can one "get" the Tube Love Liveliness (as I call it) at low to moderate volumes? Or would I be wasting money going this route?
  
 I know some of the Schiit tube amps are advertised as sounding like solid state, I can hear some coloration but IMHO it does not vary a lot with volume level. Can you get together with someone in your area that can let you hear the sound? At least you would have the ability to roll tubes and strive for the sound you do prefer.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Now the happy owner of the Mani and the mb Gungnir! 

I was running my Music Hall mmf 7 turntable through the Stax SRA 12-s phono, into the Woo WA5 ( very first (2008) WA5 on the market, now using fist run Elrog 300b's this last year w/no failures). The Stax broke, so no lp's for over 2 years. The Mani arrived last week, hooked it up to the WA5, and was I happy. The overall sound was remarkable, soundstage, clarity, smooth, lifelike sound...and for $129?...amazing. 

I was so taken with the quality of sound, I decided to give the Gungnir MB a try, helped by all the stellar reviews and posts here and on the web. I have never heard a modern dac in my system before. For prob close to 20 years, the dac's I have been using were the EAD 7000 mk iii, and an Aragon (factory prototype) D2A. It was time. 

OMG, what I have been missing with my CD's! Detail I have never heard before, a realism that is so close to live, it's uncanny. Bass, mids, and treble all beautifully rendered. Soundstage width and depth seemed limitless through the speakers depending on the recording This is through the rca's...I wonder what balanced will sound like?! 

Am running the Gungnir into a Sony Xa7es using the digital 75 coax, then to the WA5 with my AKG K1000. You all know the k1000 sound, airy, lifelike etc so non-fatiguing, it's addictive if you like that kind of presentation. With the WA5, out of this world. 

The 2 way speakers I have are incredible!...they are _way_ out of this world. Am a pro- classical musician, been all around the world doing my thing, so I know good sound...these speakers have it . Handmade in LA, unusual design, they should cost much more than they do.... Wavetouch Grand Teton SE's. Bought them last year, and have never looked back! The Schiit's through these speakers are simply out of this world. The speakers literally disappear. 

 I have not even tried my rebuilt Threshold S200 amp yet, I'm so taken with the way the WA5 sounds with the Schiit's.  Am also very happy withe this passive pre into the Threshold, called "Lightspeed" made in Australlia...amazing sound from a pre-amp...can't wait to try those with the Schiit's! 

What do they say, "audio nirvana" well I am knee deep in it and in Schiit!


----------



## Pahani

stax-i-nox said:


> Now the happy owner of the Mani and the mb Gungnir!
> 
> I was running my Music Hall mmf 7 turntable through the Stax SRA 12-s phono, into the Woo WA5 ( very first (2008) WA5 on the market, now using fist run Elrog 300b's this last year w/no failures). The Stax broke, so no lp's for over 2 years. The Mani arrived last week, hooked it up to the WA5, and was I happy. The overall sound was remarkable, soundstage, clarity, smooth, lifelike sound...and for $129?...amazing.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm loving my new Stax earspeakers in my system! Another benefit to the Schiit system of separate components is that, because the Stax amp has passthroughs, I just inserted it in the chain between my Modi and Magni. No muss, no fuss.
  
 Tidal HiFi -> (Monoprice USB 2.0 2m) Wyrd -> (PYST USB 1m) Modi 2U -> (PYST RCA) Stax SRM-252S -> (PYST RCA) Magni 2U
  
 #STAXBRO


----------



## Paladin79

PC350SE, SHP9500, K7XX, X2, HD600, T50RPmk3,  TH-X00 PH (August)
STAX SRS-2170
Schiit Magni 2U / Modi 2U, Wyrd USB conditioner (PC) OPPO HA-2 (Mobile)
Tidal HiFi
 
Favorite quote:  "OH MY GOD!!!!!! These headphones are so clear, I can *almost* comprehend Bob Dylan " -me
 
This is off subject but I have the OPPO HA=2 myself and love it. Also your Dylan quote. The last time I saw him in concert, there was a noticeable pause when he started a song. People were trying to figure out what he was singing. 
 
One thing I will mention on my Valhalla 2. I was getting considerable hum while my turntable was hooked to a tube type phono pre amp and then on to my Valhalla 2. I did the usual turntable grounding and that helped some but I finally decided to try using what are considered balanced rca cables between the pre amp and Valhalla 2. This fixed the issue, now I only have a slight bit of noise at very high volume on the Valhalla. The RCA cables consist of the usual two wires for positive and ground and then a braid shield is connected to the ground on one end. I have read differing opinions on whether the grounded shield side should be on the source side or the destination side but there was an audible difference when I connected that shield to the amp side. Down the road I will get a higher quality pre amp but I wanted the experience of assembling and modifying a Little Bear version 2.2 (I do not recommend buying one unless you are ready to troubleshoot it) I will get a Mani one day soon.


----------



## ryry1

theveterans said:


> Tr
> 
> Through Fidelify. Somehow, the sound Fidelify ASIO makes is much more natural sounding than the strident (hyped unnatural sounding treble to my ears) Tidal HiFi exclusive mode. Spotify program/app is akin to Tidal HiFi or 320 kbps. In addition, Foobar ASIO 320 kbps mp3 also sounds very natural (lacking mid-treble harshness and digititis) just like Fidelify. Also Fidelify comes very close to Foobar ASIO CD redbook sound.
> 
> FYI, I make playlist through the spotify app (or Web app) then refresh Fidelify to update it.


 
 So are you just using the Schiit ASIO driver off their site and running ASIO via that in the Fidelify client?  I installed Fidelify today and I am still using JRiver until I get my Bifrost later this week, but I can definitely tell a difference between regular Spotify and Fidelify with ASIO.  I'm running a 30 day trial of Tidal premium and I'm already subbed to Spotify, so I have a decision to make before the end of the month on which service to go with.  Fidelify has narrowed it more now, I'm really not hearing much of a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify 320, both using ASIO through JRiver.  To say Tidal is worth $10 more a month, ehhhh not really sure -- the Spotify UI is way better than Tidal for finding new music too.


----------



## madwolfa

I'm just using Spotify Premium in normal Direct Sound mode (make sure you have a matching 44.1KHz sampling set in the Windows Sound Settings). When I wanna go "Full Hi-Fi", I just play FLACs in Foobar2000 through "WASAPI Event" output. You don't really have to use ASIO nowadays.


----------



## theveterans

ryry1 said:


> So are you just using the Schiit ASIO driver off their site and running ASIO via that in the Fidelify client?  I installed Fidelify today and I am still using JRiver until I get my Bifrost later this week, but I can definitely tell a difference between regular Spotify and Fidelify with ASIO.  I'm running a 30 day trial of Tidal premium and I'm already subbed to Spotify, so I have a decision to make before the end of the month on which service to go with.  Fidelify has narrowed it more now, I'm really not hearing much of a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify 320, both using ASIO through JRiver.  To say Tidal is worth $10 more a month, ehhhh not really sure -- the Spotify UI is way better than Tidal for finding new music too.




Schiit ASIO only. Jriver causes BSOD on my surface pro 3. I do like Fidelify's sound better than Tidal and Spotify.


----------



## ryry1

theveterans said:


> Schiit ASIO only. Jriver causes BSOD on my surface pro 3. I do like Fidelify's sound better than Tidal and Spotify.


 
 Gotcha.  Well, my Bifrost will be in later this week and I have about 3 weeks to make a decision so I'll be doing a lot of comparisons I guess.  I'd be happy if I ended up saving myself the extra $10 a month for the Tidal Hifi service.  I've been active in the Spotify forum community towards getting native ASIO support and a FLAC streaming sub like Tidal for a couple of years now, and even though a ton of people have replied and upvoted the idea, Spotify still hasn't done a GD thing to make either happen.


----------



## Bonobo Loco

So I just got a Bifrost Multibit and I can't seem to get it playing. Could anyone please troubleshoot it with me for a second? It's making a clicking noise but my computer isn't recognizing it. Using a macbook btw. Any help much appreciated, thanks in advance.


----------



## theveterans

Try using the toslink from your mac and set the sound output to SPDIF


----------



## Bonobo Loco

I did finally get it working. Had a minor freakout. Would have been bummed if it wasn't working. Had to use a different USB cable and kept messing with the audio settings until something worked.


----------



## reddog

bonobo loco said:


> I did finally get it working. Had a minor freakout. Would have been bummed if it wasn't working. Had to use a different USB cable and kept messing with the audio settings until something worked.



I am glad your mighty Yggdrasil started to work for you sir. My first Yggdrasil was dead on arrival and had to be returned. Those fantastic people at Schiit Audio made everything right and had a replacement unit sent to me within 24 hours. And the Yggdrasil, they sent me has been working like a champ.


----------



## ryry1

I got my Bifrost today....replaced the Creative card (still have it installed but bypassing the DAC and going over Toslink).
  
 I gotta say, I'm ******* impressed.  I thought I was just going to get a little better sound than the X-Fi Titanium, but over Toslink it's night and day.  Worth every penny, 10/10 would buy again.  My headphones (Denon AH-D600) even though they are not hard to drive at all -- literally came ALIVE once I hooked the Bifrost into my Asgard 2.
  
 By the way, this is over Fidelify -- using Windows DirectSound.  ASIO/WASAPI truly NOT needed with this setup now.
  
 That being said, is there a Schiit ASIO driver that works with Windows 10?  When I try the one on the drivers page it says unsupported OS.


----------



## madwolfa

ryry1 said:


> I got my Bifrost today....replaced the Creative card (still have it installed but bypassing the DAC and going over Toslink).


 
  
 Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## manpowre

ryry1 said:


> I got my Bifrost today....replaced the Creative card (still have it installed but bypassing the DAC and going over Toslink).
> 
> I gotta say, I'm ******* impressed.  I thought I was just going to get a little better sound than the X-Fi Titanium, but over Toslink it's night and day.  Worth every penny, 10/10 would buy again.  My headphones (Denon AH-D600) even though they are not hard to drive at all -- literally came ALIVE once I hooked the Bifrost into my Asgard 2.
> 
> ...


 
 grats man, happy you made it !!! Im extremely happy with my yggy too!!!


----------



## theveterans

> I got my Bifrost today....replaced the Creative card (still have it installed but bypassing the DAC and going over Toslink).
> 
> I gotta say, I'm ******* impressed.  I thought I was just going to get a little better sound than the X-Fi Titanium, but over Toslink it's night and day.  Worth every penny, 10/10 would buy again.  My headphones (Denon AH-D600) even though they are not hard to drive at all -- literally came ALIVE once I hooked the Bifrost into my Asgard 2.
> 
> ...


 
  
 grats too. I don't how Fidelify does it's magic, but of all streaming player that I've used, only Fidelify comes very close to Foobar with lossless files. Tidal's program just sounds artificially boosted to my Bifrost (too glary and digital sounding) while Spotify app sounds lackluster (need the oomph and natural timbre of the Fidelify).


----------



## manpowre

theveterans said:


> grats too. I don't how Fidelify does it's magic, but of all streaming player that I've used, only Fidelify comes very close to Foobar with lossless files. Tidal's program just sounds artificially boosted to my Bifrost (too glary and digital sounding) while Spotify app sounds lackluster (need the oomph and natural timbre of the Fidelify).


 
 Did you try Tidal HIFI ? its another 10 bucks per month, but its lossless flac files being served! spotify and normal tidal is similar to mp3 compression and there is instrument separation and some frequencies being lost in the compression.


----------



## Topspin70

manpowre said:


> ryry1 said:
> 
> 
> > I got my Bifrost today....replaced the Creative card (still have it installed but bypassing the DAC and going over Toslink).
> ...




I do have one complain about the yggy: it sounds so good I'm having trouble listening to anything else, esp when I'm on the go or at the office. All other gear sounds like a compromise.


----------



## theveterans

> Did you try Tidal HIFI ? its another 10 bucks per month, but its lossless flac files being served! spotify and normal tidal is similar to mp3 compression and there is instrument separation and some frequencies being lost in the compression.


 
  
 Just to clarify. It is Tidal HiFi. I don't perceive any frequency loss in Fidelify and Tidal HiFi on the Bifrost and Asgard 2. In fact, Fidelify provides a wider soundstage than Tidal HiFi while sounding balanced yet extended, but what I seriously don't like about Tidal HiFi and 320 Kbps Tidal is the boosted mids and highs that sounds "edgy" and unnatural with my AKG K712 headphones.


----------



## mysticstryk

After stepping up to the Valhalla 2 and Bifrost 4490, I'm stepping back down to my Vali 2 and Modi 2.  Going to invest in a speaker system instead.
  
 If anyone is looking to acquire a black Bifrost, I've got one for sale in the classifieds.


----------



## rovopio

One quick question to all Schiit DAC owners, will I notice any difference between plugging my Modi my motherboard with USB Cable (that I've been doing so far) and plugging my modi to my motherboard with s/pdif cable?
  
 Thanks in advance...


----------



## manpowre

rovopio said:


> One quick question to all Schiit DAC owners, will I notice any difference between plugging my Modi my motherboard with USB Cable (that I've been doing so far) and plugging my modi to my motherboard with s/pdif cable?
> 
> Thanks in advance...


 
 The main difference between spdif and usb is that on spdif your motherboard does the packet micro timing. With USB the dac does the timing. In my experience with the 5 dac's ive tested usb has better soundquality with the spdif outputs I have available.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

This is very interesting...after reading all the reviews on the Gungnir from The Google search, there was this only one review that mentioned he got better sound from his Gungnir delta by connecting a pair of xlr to rca's to his pre-amp as opposed to rca's to rca's! http://www.polyphonymagazine.com/music-film/2016/2/8/going-discrete-lynx-studio-technology-lynxtwo-vs-schiit-audio-gungnir-balanced-dac Granted this was 2 years ago, and it is the delta version, but it peaked my interest never the less. 

 Rather than spend over $100 on a Cardas set,, Amazon had a Kirlin set for $7.99. Installed them today...oh my, what difference...Gungnir feeding a stock Woo WA5 with Jena Lab ic's, 75 ohm and rca's from a Sony xa7es CD player. 

 First impressions are that the soundstage is wider, clarity is improved to a great degree, more micro-details such as a bow across a violin/ cello/ bass, way better bass, more defined. At this point, if I were to nitpick, the soundstage may not be as deep, but If that is the case, the improvements in all the other areas is worth it. It's like I stepped up to another level of incredible sound. It is as if a veil has been lifted form the overall sound. 

Also, switching form the xlr/rca's to the rca's, easy to do on the woo, it was louder, and, no more clicks when switching tracks on the Sony. 

This is so good, I may splurge for the Cardas! Interesting to hear others impressions. Wonder what benefits the Yggdrasil would have!?


----------



## hodgjy

manpowre said:


> The main difference between spdif and usb is that on spdif your motherboard does the packet micro timing. With USB the dac does the timing. In my experience with the 5 dac's ive tested usb has better soundquality with the spdif outputs I have available.


 
  
 All DACs reclock the incoming data, which is why the whole asynchronous USB was such a huge thing--the ability to better reclock it. 
  
 I've tested many DACs, and it's damn near impossible to tell the difference between USB, optical, and coax these days since USB has greatly improved.
  
 People will say optical has excessive jitter, which may or may not be true when compared to coax, but any differences are reclocked by the DAC and are inaudible by the human ear. Just because a machine can measure jitter doesn't mean an ear can hear it.
  
 Optical has the advantage of breaking electrical connections between components, which prevents ground loops and other types of noise being passed through the chain.
  
 Saying all of this, I use optical when the option is available. I've never had any problems. In fact, I have fewer issues than when using USB.


----------



## WardrumMastodon

Get my Modi U2 and Magni U2 in the mail today. I am excited to try it out. Unfortunately I am not so sure my X2s will notice the difference. Bummer looks like I will need to buy more headphones...


----------



## Jiexi

How does gungnir mjolnir compare to the lyr bifrost?


----------



## Bonobo Loco

So I got my Schiit stack, had it about a week. Lyr2/Bifrost Multibit. Very cool. Spending a lot more time with my HD650 than I was. Still finding time for my GH1's but they have more of a dedicated niche now... acoustics, classical, maybe jazz. Not anything that needs bass or volume.
  
 Quote:


jiexi said:


> How does gungnir mjolnir compare to the lyr bifrost?


 
 Bigger, Better.


 ...jk. Sometimes I just have to play the role of 'Captain Obvious'


----------



## Jiexi

bonobo loco said:


> Bigger, Better.
> 
> 
> ...jk. Sometimes I just have to play the role of 'Captain Obvious'


 
 They're god damn huge. I actually can't fit them on my desk without pushing all my monitors forward... Guess it's Lyr 2 + Bifrost for now.


----------



## Bonobo Loco

jiexi said:


> They're god damn huge. I actually can't fit them on my desk without pushing all my monitors forward... Guess it's Lyr 2 + Bifrost for now.


 
 If you want the honest truth. You pay double, you don't get double the sound, you get maybe a 10% benefit. I'm using the Bifrost/Lyr2 now. If I went up a tier I'm paying double and not expecting double the performance. It's the same with cars or whatever. You can get a really nice Mustang for $40k. Are you going to get twice as good of a car at $80k? Probably not. It makes the upgrades somewhat of a bummer when you know you won't get what you want out of them.


----------



## manpowre

bonobo loco said:


> If you want the honest truth. You pay double, you don't get double the sound, you get maybe a 10% benefit. I'm using the Bifrost/Lyr2 now. If I went up a tier I'm paying double and not expecting double the performance. It's the same with cars or whatever. You can get a really nice Mustang for $40k. Are you going to get twice as good of a car at $80k? Probably not. It makes the upgrades somewhat of a bummer when you know you won't get what you want out of them.


 
 It depends on rest of the equipment really. If you have high resolution headphones/speakers and an amp that supports higher details and accuracy you get more than the 10%. I would say from my LCD3 with Oppo and stock cables, to my current setup its 50% improvements in different areas.


----------



## Paladin79

manpowre said:


> It depends on rest of the equipment really. If you have high resolution headphones/speakers and an amp that supports higher details and accuracy you get more than the 10%. I would say from my LCD3 with Oppo and stock cables, to my current setup its 50% improvements in different areas.


 
 For roughly $3k in headphones and an amp (if the HA-1) I would expect the sound to be quite good and I highly doubt that Audeze would scrimp on the headphone cable.The OPPO is also a balanced amp and dac so you have a fairly complete set up and a good one. Right now I lean more towards a Valhalla 2, Oppo portable amp, and separate dac, Fostex mods with pure silver cable and Martin Logan powered electrostatic speakers. Price tag just under $1,000 but I am an experienced shopper who can build his own cables. (balanced, unbalanced or a combination of the two.) You can go to extremes to try to gain just a little bit. Silver solder on connectors but why would one use solder at all when crimping the connectors directly to the wire eliminates solder? Lots of little things are talked about and done but the amp and the headphones generally have the most impact, it does not take long to learn that. Personally I like the tube sound but I run a solid state amp as well. Choices are fun.


----------



## Letmebefrank

paladin79 said:


> For roughly $3k in headphones and an amp (if the HA-1) I would expect the sound to be quite good and I highly doubt that Audeze would scrimp on the headphone cable.The OPPO is also a balanced amp and dac so you have a fairly complete set up and a good one. Right now I lean more towards a Valhalla 2, Oppo portable amp, and separate dac, Fostex mods with pure silver cable and Martin Logan powered electrostatic speakers. Price tag just under $1,000 but I am an experienced shopper who can build his own cables. (balanced, unbalanced or a combination of the two.) You can go to extremes to try to gain just a little bit. Silver solder on connectors but why would one use solder at all when crimping the connectors directly to the wire eliminates solder? Lots of little things are talked about and done but the amp and the headphones generally have the most impact, it does not take long to learn that. Personally I like the tube sound but I run a solid state amp as well. Choices are fun.



And the cables be makes are top notch.


----------



## Paladin79

You are too kind Let. I imagine those red cables I made you are pretty close to the PYST cables. I have not tried any but they are American made cable with decent connectors from what I can tell.
 One day soon I hope to build you three different cables for the 650's. You can try them and keep the one you like best for doing the testing.I will probably put fabric mesh on all three, seal them, and just color code them so it is a somewhat unbiased test. I do envy your young ears but then it has been said that youth is wasted on the young. I am also reminded that Mark Twain said "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way." I am reminded of that as I lift a 20 lb cat out of my computer chair in order to enjoy some music. I believe my instruction book for the Valhalla 2 clearly states that the amp does not make a good cat bed.


----------



## Letmebefrank

paladin79 said:


> You are too kind Let. I imagine those red cables I made you are pretty close to the PYST cables. I have not tried any but they are American made cable with decent connectors from what I can tell.
> One day soon I hope to build you three different cables for the 650's. You can try them and keep the one you like best for doing the testing.I will probably put fabric mesh on all three, seal them, and just color code them so it is a somewhat unbiased test. I do envy your young ears but then it has been said that youth is wasted on the young. I am also reminded that Mark Twain said "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn no other way." I am reminded of that as I lift a 20 lb cat out of my computer chair in order to enjoy some music.



I would honestly say they are better than the pyst. More flexible, better connections. I look forward to testing those cables!


----------



## Paladin79

Some things do not change much like coaxial cables. I saw an early patent on them from around 1900 by Nikola Tesla. I heard something not long ago about who could have conceived of the advances in television and smart phones. Tesla did in the early 1900's about the time Marconi was experimenting with radio waves.


----------



## Letmebefrank

From PC to Modi2Uber: 6ft amazon basics USB A to B
 From PC to Modi2Uber: 6ft Monster Toslink
 From Modi2Uber to SYS: Schiit PYST 6" RCA ; StraightWire cable and connectors
 From SYS to Vali 2: Custom 8" CablesForLess cable; red Belden cable, Neutrik plugs (paladin79)
 From SYS to SMSL SA-50: Monster DJ RCA


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Update on using the balanced outs of the Gungnir.

Well, to my surprise, the $150 Cardas XLR to RCA adapters did not sound near as good as the 7$ Kirlin ones gong from the the Balanced Gungnir Multibit to my Sony Xa7es rebook player using a pair of Jena Labs ic's. Granted, the Cardas did not fit well, that familiar "click" was not possible, so perhaps that was the problem. 

Nevertheless, there is a def improve in ALL aspects to the music going this route instead of the rca to rca's! 

I just noticed that the Gungnir is out of stock on the schitt website....I can understand why!


----------



## Paladin79

I could imagine not being able to tell the difference in two short adapters but it is surprising the Cardas sounded worse. Basically you are saying you are going balanced to unbalanced instead of unbalanced to unbalanced in the case of using just the rca's. I will have to try that out sometime, I have another brand DAC but I can run it into a Valhalla 2. I rarely use adapters so I will do short cables.


----------



## MegaMushroom

I've finally decided to nab myself a Schiit Stack for my new setup for Japan.  Should work quite nicely with my Sennhesier HD650s... granted I did skip the Pyst cables since I couldn't really stomach 25+ dollars for 6 inches of cable.  The Monoprice set I picked up from Amazon feel fairly solid.


----------



## Paladin79

Generally the higher costs on the Pyst cables are the connectors and the labor. Quality connectors like Canare can retail for $4-$5 each, lesser expensive ones can be $2-$3 each, multiply either by four and add American made cable and the Pyst cables are not so expensive. Compare them to 100% Chinese made product and yes there is a cost difference. Knowing the 650's and Schiit equipment you could have $1,000 in your other gear, down the road if you get a chance to try other cables you might hear a difference. If you cannot tell a difference then you made the right choice.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I did some research and Monoprice sells a higher quality RCA connector for $4.22 each, those are probably more comparable to what the Pyst cable uses. Buy four of those, add labor and cable and anything in the $20 to $25 range is a little bit easier to comprehend.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

I was surprised as well when the Cardas adapters did not sound that good. It could be because they do not fit the Gungnir well. The Kirlin's fit perfectly. 

Yes, I am going from the Gungnir balanced using the xlr to rca's Kirlin adapters, to the rca's of the Sony Xa7es. One thing I have not tried...using another pair of xlr to rca adapters from the Sony to the Woo WA5. However, that is adding another set of ic's and adapters. Might be worth the effort though. 

Interesting to see if you hear a difference.


----------



## Paladin79

The only adapters I have used much are 3.5 mm to quarter inch stereo and vice versa. I got away from those though, I finally just built enough cables and at enough lengths where I do not need adapters at all. I do not buy $150 adapters or connectors and if someone can hear and audible difference between gold plating or nickel plating, more power to you. I am generally more concerned with quality of construction and strain relief. I like cable such as Belden because a lot of it is American made and their quality control system is very impressive. I have purchased speaker wire from China where they twisted the wires together in the middle of a 500 foot spool and covered them with clear tape. I have found similar things in other off shore products. I have enough going on in my music system without ever having to worry about the quality of my interconnect cables, mine are rock solid and I soldered them myself. To me the Pyst cables take a similar approach, quality connectors and American cable.


----------



## MWSVette

The Pyst cables are actually manufactured by a company called Straight Wire.  They build a variety of quality cable lines at various price points...


----------



## Paladin79

mwsvette said:


> The Pyst cables are actually manufactured by a company called Straightwire.  They build a variety of quality cable lines at various price points...


 
 Thanks, I had not seen one personally, only the photos. I could of course read what was on the cable and see the connectors. The connectors probably say Staightwire on them but I could not make it out in the photo on the Schiit site.
  
 I spend much of each day dealing with custom applications and cable and have done so for over ten years so I am probably a fairly good judge of such things. Headphone cables and RCA interconnects are pretty simple compared to some of the things I get into.


----------



## ThePianoMan

Straightwire is actually a pretty cool company. Back in the "audio heyday" they were as well known as audioquest, at least. They kinda fell off the map for a while, but have made a comeback. They have a kind of no nonsense, affordable attitude to cabling. If you email or call them they're super responsive and will gladly make and sell you just about anything you could want (even headphone cables!) direct online. 
  
 http://www.straightwire.com/


----------



## Paladin79

thepianoman said:


> Straightwire is actually a pretty cool company. Back in the "audio heyday" they were as well known as audioquest, at least. They kinda fell off the map for a while, but have made a comeback. They have a kind of no nonsense, affordable attitude to cabling. If you email or call them they're super responsive and will gladly make and sell you just about anything you could want (even headphone cables!) direct online.
> 
> http://www.straightwire.com/


 
 I do remember Audioquest. Some of their cables can get pricey, you can find quite a few on Ebay. They have some speaker wires they make up in the $2-$3,000 range but as one person said, they do cover various price points. I am at an age where I cannot hear high frequencies very well so some of their quality would be lost on me. I often rely on test instruments anymore when I use high end products and the response of younger listeners.


----------



## jfoxvol

thepianoman said:


> Straightwire is actually a pretty cool company. Back in the "audio heyday" they were as well known as audioquest, at least. They kinda fell off the map for a while, but have made a comeback. They have a kind of no nonsense, affordable attitude to cabling. If you email or call them they're super responsive and will gladly make and sell you just about anything you could want (even headphone cables!) direct online.
> 
> http://www.straightwire.com/


 
 I've heard nothing but good things about those guys.  A friend in the industry regularly teams with them.  They make very high quality stuff and no snake oil.


----------



## Paladin79

To last as long as they have, it would certainly make sense that people believe in their products and I was explaining earlier that Schiit is not charging an arm and a leg for the interconnects they sell made by Straightwire. Mr. Speakers impresses me the same way with their dum cable line. High Purity OFC. I have the ability to test and own most any type of cable out there but I am more likely to upgrade equipment before cables.


----------



## landroni

paladin79 said:


> Schiit is not charging an arm and a leg for the interconnects they sell made by Straightwire


 

 How do you know that Schiit's Pyst cables are made by Straightwire? They don't seem to be advertising this anywhere...


----------



## Astral Abyss

landroni said:


> How do you know that Schiit's Pyst cables are made by Straightwire? They don't seem to be advertising this anywhere...




It's on the cables themselves.


----------



## Paladin79

astral abyss said:


> It's on the cables themselves.


 
  


landroni said:


> How do you know that Schiit's Pyst cables are made by Straightwire? They don't seem to be advertising this anywhere...


 
 I was deferring to Astral's knowledge but if you look at the connectors, they certainly look like the ones Straightwire is using. There is another thread here where you can talk to the folks from Schiit, I imagine they can confirm it as well.


----------



## Astral Abyss

paladin79 said:


> I was deferring to Astral's knowledge but if you look at the connectors, they certainly look like the ones Straightwire is using. There is another thread here where you can talk to the folks from Schiit, I imagine they can confirm it as well.




Here ya go. Official pic of my PYST cables.


----------



## crazychile

astral abyss said:


> landroni said:
> 
> 
> > How do you know that Schiit's Pyst cables are made by Straightwire? They don't seem to be advertising this anywhere...
> ...




Although since the Pyst cables are so short, you may not get a section that actually says Straightwire on it.


----------



## Paladin79

I thought maybe the connector had it on there as well, thanks for confirming it. Those are pretty decent cables I am sure. I have a preference for some others so I have never bought any.


----------



## Pahani

astral abyss said:


> Here ya go. Official pic of my PYST cables.


 
 And I confirm my PYST cables are identical to these findings. Both sets.


----------



## john777

pahani said:


> And I confirm my PYST cables are identical to these findings. Both sets.




Someone will be claiming next that Schiit don't make their own amps/DACs... )


----------



## Torq

john777 said:


> Someone will be claiming next that Schiit don't make their own amps/DACs... )


 

 I've got a hand-soldered (by Mike or Dave) first article "4490" DAC/analog-stage board that say's otherwise!


----------



## Netrum

What should i do with my modi 2 when my bifrost multibit arrive in the mail?
Buy a magni 2 and use it at school?
But then then i would need new closed headphones


----------



## crazychile

netrum said:


> What should i do with my modi 2 when my bifrost multibit arrive in the mail?
> Buy a magni 2 and use it at school?
> But then then i would need new closed headphones


 

  I continue to use an original Opti Modi as a dedicated D/A for my television which has a Toslink digital output. It now connects to a cheap bluetooth transmitter so I can use wireless headphones for late night viewing.
  
 Previously I connected it to the digital output of a Mac Mini (plus video output from the Mac) so I could play iTunes, Netflix, Youtube, etc on the A/V system when I didn't have a smart TV.


----------



## Netrum

Ahh nice setup. But i do not own a tv or a speaker system. 
So i dont know what to do with it.


----------



## crazychile

netrum said:


> Ahh nice setup. But i do not own a tv or a speaker system.
> So i dont know what to do with it.


 

 Well then I guess you must buy another amp and headphones for another system!
  
 Or...
  
 I'm guessing you could probably sell it. Since you are in Norway I would think it should hold it's value and someone would love to have ov=ne without paying all the import duties.


----------



## Gavin C4

why is the Gungnir dac out of stock? Are they going to update it or change it?


----------



## Youth

gavin c4 said:


> why is the Gungnir dac out of stock? Are they going to update it or change it?


 They ran out of metal. Will be available again.


----------



## LV_V

Checking in with a Bitfrost Mulitbit/Valhalla 2 setup. My DT880 600ohm cans sound incredible through this setup.


----------



## Paladin79

lv_v said:


> Checking in with a Bitfrost Mulitbit/Valhalla 2 setup. My DT880 600ohm cans sound incredible through this setup.


 
 It is good to know the Valhalla 2 will drive 600 ohm cans. I have not have had the pleasure to try mine with any of that high an impedance yet.


----------



## jfoxvol

paladin79 said:


> It is good to know the Valhalla 2 will drive 600 ohm cans. I have not have had the pleasure to try mine with any of that high an impedance yet.


 

 Same experience with my Gen1 T1s.  They sound great.  High impedance but high total efficiency.  As long as the output rails can swing big enough, you're good.  In this case, definitely great.


----------



## Paladin79

jfoxvol said:


> Same experience with my Gen1 T1s.  They sound great.  High impedance but high total efficiency.  As long as the output rails can swing big enough, you're good.  In this case, definitely great.


 
 Good info. I may need to grab a Schiit Mani soon, I have a phono preamp but I am not happy with it. Any of you folks currently using the Mani and can you offer any impressions?
  
 thanks


----------



## 520RanchBro

paladin79 said:


> Good info. I may need to grab a Schiit Mani soon, I have a phono preamp but I am not happy with it. Any of you folks currently using the Mani and can you offer any impressions?
> 
> thanks


 
 Been using one for a few months now. What're you currently using?
  
 Compared to my Phono Box S:
  
 -Slightly more detailed and more treble content. Not overly bright but brighter than the Phono Box
 -Leaner in the bass, bass response feels tighter and less round
 -Slightly more noisy 
  
 Both are in around the same price bracket so I didn't expect a huge upgrade or anything. If you want your vinyl to sound warm and smooth, the Mani probably isn't that. It's certainly what I was looking for as now my vinyl setup competes pretty well with my digital (Bifrost 4490) in the realm of detail and treble response. My scope of experience with phono pres is pretty narrow but for it's price I don't really find myself wanting much more out of it.


----------



## Stax-i-nox

Bought the Mani 6 months ago, and could not be more pleased. Records sound so lifelike...all aspects of the sound the Mani produces are great, soundstage, depth and width, detail and clarity are fantastic, as is the bass response. Works with both mm and mc. 

After doing a Google search for reviews and watching this guy, who is into vinyl big- time, I bought it. 

https://youtu.be/R4PvNVBUQGY

It really should cost more than it does. 

My setup: Music Hall mmf7 w/ Goldring Eroica High Output Mc
 Woo Audio WA5 ( Elrog 300b, Sophia Electric 6sn7 and 274b mesh plate) What a sound! 
 Rebuilt Threshold S200 amp
 "Lightspeed" passive attenuator ( better than pre-amps costing way more) 
 Pair of Wavetouch "Grand Teton SE" 2 way speakers ( incredible sound and value, just like the Mani)
 Pair of AKG K1000 headphones. 
 AKG BAP 1000 Audiosphere

I also have the Schiit Multibit Gungnir for cd's.....another great sounding product! 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Paladin79

520ranchbro said:


> Been using one for a few months now. What're you currently using?
> 
> Compared to my Phono Box S:
> 
> ...


 
 I am currently using a Little Bear tube type pre-amp out of China. I thought it would be more of a kit than it was but you do get to work on it some long after it is put together lol. I keep having some hum issues and even on a good day the background hum is more than I like. I figured I would get something that I could count on while I delve back into the tube pre and see if I can clean up some of the noise issues.


----------



## jrflanne

netrum said:


> What should i do with my modi 2 when my bifrost multibit arrive in the mail?
> Buy a magni 2 and use it at school?
> But then then i would need new closed headphones




I had that combo. There are worse ideas. You would be very pleased.


----------



## StanD

netrum said:


> What should i do with my modi 2 when my bifrost multibit arrive in the mail?
> Buy a magni 2 and use it at school?
> But then then i would need new closed headphones


 
  
  


jrflanne said:


> I had that combo. There are worse ideas. You would be very pleased.


 
 These are good problems to have, buy more Schiit.


----------



## Torq

Schiit's customer service continues to impress me.  In a couple of weeks shy of 5 years as a customer, they've been unfailingly helpful, responsive, pro-active and accommodating.
  
 Back when the "4490" Bifrost was just about to be announced (but hadn't been), I'd finally gotten around to ordering the "Uber" upgrade.  Rather than them just sending me one of the Uber boards they MUST have had on hand, they held the order and sent me one of the first half-dozen, hand-built, "4490" boards.  I got it a week before it was announced and didn't realize what they'd done until Jason posted pictures of the new analog/DAC board.
  
 Was a fun discussion with Alex about how that came about - a nice, and personal, touch.
  
 Today, as Amy was about to ship me my new Lyr 2 and Bifrost MB*, she contacted me to see if I wanted to change my shipping in order to have the unit for the weekend.  There was no need for her to do that, but the net result is that I'll get the unit 4 days earlier than I expected and at $20 less than if I'd specified "next day" shipping.
  
 (*I decided NOT to upgrade my current Bifrost "4490" to MB so that I could have all four Bifrost versions side by side, as I have the D/S boards to hand, and have a buyer from my existing Bifrost anxiously waiting for a very good deal indeed).
  
 Good people, good products, good Schiit.


----------



## alitomr

Is there a Valhalla 2 Appreciation thread?  
  
 This is my third day with it, and I am very impressed, coming from the magni 2 uber. 
  
 There were no rubber feet for it in the box, but hell, it makes the HD600 sound soooo good, correcting most of the things I found lacking in the Magni 2 uber, without adding any new flaws. 
  
 Great thing this Valhalla 2. Even when it is not exactly what I was looking (forward, Klipsch like sound), I think this combo is a keeper and end game for me.


----------



## Paladin79

alitomr said:


> Is there a Valhalla 2 Appreciation thread?
> 
> This is my third day with it, and I am very impressed, coming from the magni 2 uber.
> 
> ...


 
 I do not know of a specific thread but I really like the line out capability on the amp. I transition easily from headphones and Martin Logan speakers and a Klipsch sub.


----------



## alitomr

paladin79 said:


> I do not know of a specific thread but I really like the line out capability on the amp. I transition easily from headphones and Martin Logan speakers and a Klipsch sub.


 
  
 Does it color the sound in some way?  I have no experience with any pre-amp output, and I am comparing the Valhalla 2 to the magni 2 uber, but the latter is connected to the pre-amp outputs of the former. I dont know if it is affecting what I am listening from the Magni 2 uber. 
  
 What do you think?  
  
 The reason I do it this way is because I want to be able to switch between amps as fast and as easily as possible.


----------



## Paladin79

alitomr said:


> Does it color the sound in some way?  I have no experience with any pre-amp output, and I am comparing the Valhalla 2 to the magni 2 uber, but the latter is connected to the pre-amp outputs of the former. I dont know if it is affecting what I am listening from the Magni 2 uber.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> The reason I do it this way is because I want to be able to switch between amps as fast and as easily as possible.


 
 It depends on which tubes you have in the valhalla 2 at the time and if you are looking for the warm "tube" sound. I run another dac/amp through the valhalla 2, I can plug my headphones into either or listen to speakers through the valhalla 2 and still keep headphones in the dac/amp. I hope that makes sense but I am getting use out of both and the final stage before the speakers is the Valhalla 2.


----------



## mysticstryk

lv_v said:


> Checking in with a Bitfrost Mulitbit/Valhalla 2 setup. My DT880 600ohm cans sound incredible through this setup.







paladin79 said:


> It is good to know the Valhalla 2 will drive 600 ohm cans. I have not have had the pleasure to try mine with any of that high an impedance yet.




My dt880 is run through the same setup. Just got a Bimby today to compare to my 4490 Bifrost. Not quite as good as my hd650s through the same setup, but they drive my 600ohm Beyers very well. 

@Torq

Have you done any written comparisons between the Bifrost 4490 and Bimby? Interested to see if my findings line up with yours. My Bimby has been getting warmed up for the last 6 hours or so.


----------



## Torq

mysticstryk said:


> My dt880 is run through the same setup. Just got a Bimby today to compare to my 4490 Bifrost. Not quite as good as my hd650s through the same setup, but they drive my 600ohm Beyers very well.
> 
> @Torq
> 
> Have you done any written comparisons between the Bifrost 4490 and Bimby? Interested to see if my findings line up with yours. My Bimby has been getting warmed up for the last 6 hours or so.


 

 Not really ... a few comments in a post I made ages ago, based on not-much critical listening ... 
  
 However, I'm _about_ to (see this post/thread to see when that occurs, though the results will get their own thread).
  
 I'm now in a position to do back to back comparisons with all variations of Bifrost ... i.e. both USB Gen 1 & 2 boards, the original analog/DAC board, Uber board, the "4490" and multi-bit.  So I'll likely compare all eight configurations.  I might, in the interests of time, do the four primary comparisons and then only do a single USB board comparison with the unit that ultimately I think sounds the best, but we'll see ... my intent is to do the whole eight-way shebang.
  
 I might also do something double-blind here ... but that depends a lot on sensible, suitably skilled, local participation and timing.


----------



## alitomr

Could you post picturesof your Valhalla 2 turned on?? Mine has been on forthree days, and i am enjoying it very muvh with my HD600, but some of the tubes are quite jiggly, and their light is very dim. I cant notice iff they twosmall tubes are on when i look at them from the front . I have been comparing them to the magni 2 uber and at 12 o'clock , the magni is coniderably louder thanthe Valhalla.

Is all this normal??


----------



## beriguu

alitomr said:


> Could you post picturesof your Valhalla 2 turned on?? Mine has been on forthree days, and i am enjoying it very muvh with my HD600, but some of the tubes are quite jiggly, and their light is very dim. I cant notice iff they twosmall tubes are on when i look at them from the front . I have been comparing them to the magni 2 uber and at 12 o'clock , the magni is coniderably louder thanthe Valhalla.
> 
> Is all this normal??


 
 Have you flipped the GAIN switch in the back to HI (as in up direction) on V2? If not, you are at low gain and your HD600 will sound "quiet" unless you turn the dial to 12 o'clock as you described.
 For jiggly tubes, you may not have the tubes seated properly. I had to bend some of my tube pins to align better to the socket to seat better. No jiggling after that.
  
 This is my first post, so I guess I can't attach an image.
 When I look down 45 degrees at my V2 and I can see all the tubes glowing orange. Right tubes are slightly dimmer than the left ones though.


----------



## alitomr

beriguu said:


> Have you flipped the GAIN switch in the back to HI (as in up direction) on V2? If not, you are at low gain and your HD600 will sound "quiet" unless you turn the dial to 12 o'clock as you described.
> For jiggly tubes, you may not have the tubes seated properly. I had to bend some of my tube pins to align better to the socket to seat better. No jiggling after that.
> 
> This is my first post, so I guess I can't attach an image.
> When I look down 45 degrees at my V2 and I can see all the tubes glowing orange. Right tubes are slightly dimmer than the left ones though.




Yes, @beryguu, the gain is set to hi. I did push it and at 3 o'clock the SPL iis hearing-damaging.


----------



## beriguu

@alitomr, Here is a picture of my V2 tube glow for you to compare yours to. I don't know how other V2s look like though.


----------



## Paladin79

Mine is pretty consistent with that photo, both front and back tubes look identical to their mates.


----------



## ksathug

i need some advice 
  
 i have a sound card the asus stx as my dac and the Vallhalla 2 as my amp the sound is good and powerfull but the base is not that good its like its fake !!
  
 i heard the JDS Labs Assembled Objective2 
  
 the base was good 
  
 i have 2 choices 
  
 eather i get the 
  
 JDS LABS THE ELEMENT 
  
 or
  
 Bifrost
  
 wich you recomend for me
  
 i love it to be simple 
  
 if ther is minmum difrince for the elment vs  Vallhalla 2+Bifrost
  
 i will go with the elment 
  
 pls hellp me diside


----------



## Torq

The "4490" version of the Bifrost has nice bass slam, if a slight bloom/exaggeration to it compared to the Multi-bit version, and that'd be my vote vs. the Element if I was going to buy a DAC.
  
 Of course, we don't know if you're looking for greater bass extension, higher bass volume, or you want more articulation ... since "it sounds fake" doesn't tell us very much.
  
 Given your headphones, though, I'd first try applying some EQ in your player, as that's far more likely to give you what you want and won't cost you anything but a bit of trial and error.


----------



## ksathug

torq said:


> The "4490" version of the Bifrost has nice bass slam, if a slight bloom/exaggeration to it compared to the Multi-bit version, and that'd be my vote vs. the Element if I was going to buy a DAC.
> 
> Of course, we don't know if you're looking for greater bass extension, higher bass volume, or you want more articulation ... since "it sounds fake" doesn't tell us very much.
> 
> Given your headphones, though, I'd first try applying some EQ in your player, as that's far more likely to give you what you want and won't cost you anything but a bit of trial and error.


 
 thx for the reply my only isue is the base is week ther is no kick i cant feel it the wierd thing is my stx hase better base 
  
 after searching i found that tube amps are not good for base the solid state amps have better base if i trade my amp for a 
  
 JDS Labs - The Element will it be a upgrade or its not worth 
  
 and thx for the reply i relay appreciate it


----------



## mysticstryk

ksathug said:


> thx for the reply my only isue is the base is week ther is no kick i cant feel it the wierd thing is my stx hase better base
> 
> after searching i found that tube amps are not good for base the solid state amps have better base if i trade my amp for a
> 
> ...




The amp in the element will be a significant downgrade from your valhalla 2 for your hd650. I use a Bifrost 4490 and Valhalla 2 stack for my own 650s and bass slam is good. If you want to spend less than what the Bifrost costs, the Modi 2 Uber now comes with the 4490 chip as well for $150. Would be almost as good as the Bifrost.


----------



## kejar31

mysticstryk said:


> The amp in the element will be a significant downgrade from your valhalla 2 for your hd650. I use a Bifrost 4490 and Valhalla 2 stack for my own 650s and bass slam is good. If you want to spend less than what the Bifrost costs, the Modi 2 Uber now comes with the 4490 chip as well for $150. Would be almost as good as the Bifrost.


 
 Lets not forget you can now also get the Modi Multibit for 250!


----------



## Torq

ksathug said:


> thx for the reply my only isue is the base is week ther is no kick i cant feel it the wierd thing is my stx hase better base
> 
> after searching i found that tube amps are not good for base the solid state amps have better base if i trade my amp for a
> 
> ...


 
  
 Tube amps not good for bass?  Not sure where you heard that ... but it's not accurate.  I've got three of them (WA5-LE, WA6, Lyr 2) and they definitely deliver the goods!


----------



## artur9

Has anyone compared the upsampling done by SoX to that done by the megaburrito filter?
  
 Right now I have minimserver using ffmpeg/sox to upsample/convert everything to 96Khz/24b WAV (limit of my system) and I think it sounds good.
  
 Curious as to whether native samplerate WAV into Schiit MB tech sounds better.  Although, my preamplifier upsamples everything to 96Khz to do its room correction so I do not think I will actually get native sample rates to the DAC.
  
 Due to the above I don't think I can take full advantage of the Yggy so it's either Gumby or upgrade my Uber to Bimby.  Maybe, due to the above, Bimby is as good as I can take advantage of.


----------



## jfoxvol

torq said:


> Tube amps not good for bass?  Not sure where you heard that ... but it's not accurate.  I've got three of them (WA5-LE, WA6, Lyr 2) and they definitely deliver the goods!


 
 Agreed.  Older tube designs and many tube guitar amplifiers can have a spongy bass.  But done right, like the above listed amps, bass is absolutely rocking.


----------



## biggbenn74

Can anyone find a V1 Modi for under $100 right now? I have the Magni V1 and just got a nice Denon SACD player with optional DAC bypass through digital coaxial.


----------



## Paladin79

biggbenn74 said:


> Can anyone find a V1 Modi for under $100 right now? I have the Magni V1 and just got a nice Denon SACD player with optional DAC bypass through digital coaxial.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schiit-Modi-Magni-Dac-Amp-Stack-Combo-/252489636692?hash=item3ac98e1b54:g:qoEAAOSwtnpXpOGX
  
 This includes a Magni but right now the bid is $86 plus shipping. It may well go higher. There are also a couple Modi 2's there for reasonable prices as well but it sounds like you are seeking a version 1.


----------



## biggbenn74

paladin79 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schiit-Modi-Magni-Dac-Amp-Stack-Combo-/252489636692?hash=item3ac98e1b54:g:qoEAAOSwtnpXpOGX
> 
> This includes a Magni but right now the bid is $86 plus shipping. It may well go higher. There are also a couple Modi 2's there for reasonable prices as well but it sounds like you are seeking a version 1.




I saw. I'm not too interested in auctions and watching things. I'm a "buy it now" kind of guy. It seems like it's the only one available though. WHY ARE THEY SO RARE?!


----------



## Paladin79

biggbenn74 said:


> I saw. I'm not too interested in auctions and watching things. I'm a "buy it now" kind of guy. It seems like it's the only one available though. WHY ARE THEY SO RARE?!


 
 I rarely watch things on Ebay, I generally throw a bid out there and see if I get an email saying i won it; if not the search goes on.  I liked the fact that if won, you can sell of the Magni and not have much in the Modi but each of us has their own perspective.


----------



## ksathug

mysticstryk said:


> The amp in the element will be a significant downgrade from your valhalla 2 for your hd650. I use a Bifrost 4490 and Valhalla 2 stack for my own 650s and bass slam is good. If you want to spend less than what the Bifrost costs, the Modi 2 Uber now comes with the 4490 chip as well for $150. Would be almost as good as the Bifrost.


 
  
 ok so if i use the dac in the Element and the valhalla 2 as a amp will the element dac god as the  Modi 2 Uber or the Bifrost not performance per dollar just in general


----------



## Gavin C4

I wonder why the Gungnir is out of stock instead of backordered. Will there be change to the Gungnir?


----------



## theblueprint

biggbenn74 said:


> Can anyone find a V1 Modi for under $100 right now? I have the Magni V1 and just got a nice Denon SACD player with optional DAC bypass through digital coaxial.




Unless you're looking for the Optical Modi, the original Modi doesn't have optical. The Optimodi is super rare though. Good luck!


----------



## cathare34

I have a 2 questions a own the shiit Magni 2 Uber and the Power Supply “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer the lenght is too short in my new room.
  
 1 - Is there an alternative for the power supply another brand of so ?
 2-  Is there some kind of adapter to have more length


----------



## Letmebefrank

cathare34 said:


> I have a 2 questions a own the shiit Magni 2 Uber and the Power Supply “Wall wart” style 24VA 14VAC transformer the lenght is too short in my new room.
> 
> 1 - Is there an alternative for the power supply another brand of so ?
> 2-  Is there some kind of adapter to have more length




Extension cord from the outlet to the wall wart.


----------



## cathare34

letmebefrank said:


> Extension cord from the outlet to the wall wart.


 
  Ok but i wonder if there is another alternative for replacing the big power supply ?


----------



## Paladin79

cathare34 said:


> Ok but i wonder if there is another alternative for replacing the big power supply ?


 
 You can always search for a smaller supply but you have to be certain it matches what you are currently using. The voltage rating should not be too hard to match but it is the current rating (usually in amps or milliamps) that is real important. Personally I would go with Letmebefrank's suggestion.


----------



## alitomr

Hello All,
  
 I am loving my Valhalla 2. I think it's a considerable upgrade over the magni 2 uber to power the Sennheiser HD600. I am considering trying the Asgard 2 because even though I really like the Valhalla 2, I can't deny I find myself longing for the attack, speed and brightness of my speakers (Klipsch). In my already extensive comparisons I have found that some songs, even when they dont sound better as more clear or dynamic, do sound more fun to me on the magni 2 uber. Granted, those are just certain songs, and identifying a genre or even a pattern of songs or styles have been quite hard. I have been unable to do it, so at this point I am thinking about it being because of synergies that depend on a lot of really hard to determine factors, in which I think the preference of the recording engineers for certain sound signature or qualities/attributes for the final mix plays a heavy role. 
  
 With all that said, would you think the asgard 2 would give me what I am looking without sacrificing the overall clarity, resolution and smoothness that the Valhalla 2 has above the magni 2 uber??
  
 I think the magni 2 uber sound great, but often I think it falters when driving the HD600, making it sound congested, sometimes nasal, shouty,  in complex passages of music. What I want is the overall magni 2 uber attack (solid state attribute?) without its shortcomings, already fixed by the Valhalla 2, imho. Is it Asgard 2 or are there tubes for the Valhalla that could make them sound brighter, closer to the magni 2 uber??


----------



## StanD

alitomr said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I am loving my Valhalla 2. I think it's a considerable upgrade over the magni 2 uber to power the Sennheiser HD600. I am considering trying the Asgard 2 because even though I really like the Valhalla 2, I can't deny I find myself longing for the attack, speed and brightness of my speakers (Klipsch). In my already extensive comparisons I have found that some songs, even when they dont sound better as more clear or dynamic, do sound more fun to me on the magni 2 uber. Granted, those are just certain songs, and identifying a genre or even a pattern of songs or styles have been quite hard. I have been unable to do it, so at this point I am thinking about it being because of synergies that depend on a lot of really hard to determine factors, in which I think the preference of the recording engineers for certain sound signature or qualities/attributes for the final mix plays a heavy role.
> 
> ...


 

 What do you mean by nasal and shouty? Do you mean dull or lacking treble as one's hearing might be affected by a cold?


----------



## alitomr

@StanD, I really dont know how to describe nasal. I think it's as if you had a cold yes. The shouty part is what I hear when the lack of instrument separation and prominent MIDS are really hard to bear, get really uncomfortable to listen to. It happens quite often with the magni 2 uber. 
  
 To be honest, the Valhalla 2 brings out qualities in the HD600 that I thought they didn't have. Noticing how things that bothered me improved or disappeared makes me think about upgrading the amplification of my speaker system... that's for another thread...
  
 Did I explain myself better now?


----------



## StanD

alitomr said:


> @StanD, I really dont know how to describe nasal. I think it's as if you had a cold yes. The shouty part is what I hear when the lack of instrument separation and prominent MIDS are really hard to bear, get really uncomfortable to listen to. It happens quite often with the magni 2 uber.
> 
> To be honest, the Valhalla 2 brings out qualities in the HD600 that I thought they didn't have. Noticing how things that bothered me improved or disappeared makes me think about upgrading the amplification of my speaker system... that's for another thread...
> 
> Did I explain myself better now?


 

 Maybe there's something wrong with your Magni, you should check with Schiit. Some folks have complained that the Magni is too bright, which is not what you seem to have described. I have never found it to be bright. and also have an Asgard 2 and HD600 and found that or with the Magni sounded very similar. So perhaps there is something going on with your Magni. Did you try it on a low impedance can that requires some measure of power, like a Planar?


----------



## alitomr

stand said:


> Maybe there's something wrong with your Magni, you should check with Schiit. Some folks have complained that the Magni is too bright, which is not what you seem to have described. I have never found it to be bright. and also have an Asgard 2 and HD600 and found that or with the Magni sounded very similar. So perhaps there is something going on with your Magni. Did you try it on a low impedance can that requires some measure of power, like a Planar?


 
  
 I never thought there could be something wrong with it. It IS BRIGHT, but it doesnt bother me at all. To the contrary, I like its brightness and it's the attribute I am looking for in another amp or maybe tube rolling with the Valhalla 2.


----------



## RickB

alitomr said:


> I never thought there could be something wrong with it. It IS BRIGHT, but it doesnt bother me at all. To the contrary, I like its brightness and it's the attribute I am looking for in another amp or maybe tube rolling with the Valhalla 2.


 
 The Valhalla 2 with stock tubes is already considered a bright amp. If you want more brightness, maybe you should consider another headphone? Beyer DT990 comes to mind as a brighter headphone than HD600.


----------



## LTSFBH

alitomr said:


> I never thought there could be something wrong with it. It IS BRIGHT, but it doesnt bother me at all. To the contrary, I like its brightness and it's the attribute I am looking for in another amp or maybe tube rolling with the Valhalla 2.




Sounds like you are getting caught up in the downward spiral of "upgraditis"! You make it seem that your Val2 and 600's are synergistic enough to bring you enjoyment about 90% of the time. Seems pointless to chase a solution for only 10% of your problem. Trust me, you will never find a combo that gives you absolutely everything you are hoping to hear each and every time. If you manage to find another amp, tubes, etc. that corrects the small issues you notice, what effect will there be on the rest of the music that you are currently enjoying? If there is a sonic difference to the 10% there will also be a difference to the rest and it might not be a good change! Time to sit back and start enjoying the music and stop chasing a fix that will only have you end up trying to fix something else later. Just my opinion.


----------



## Byronb

alitomr said:


> I never thought there could be something wrong with it. It IS BRIGHT, but it doesnt bother me at all. To the contrary, I like its brightness and it's the attribute I am looking for in another amp or maybe tube rolling with the Valhalla 2.


 
 The Valhalla will deliver significantly more power to the HD's. So do you warm up the amp before listening? Do the tubes have any hours on them, Tubes actually do "burn in". The Valhalla is not as "bright" of an amp as the Magni for sure. You can get closer by selecting different tubes, but I doubt you will get all the way there. IMHO the Asgard is "NOT" as bright as the Magni.


----------



## alitomr

rickb said:


> The Valhalla 2 with stock tubes is already considered a bright amp. If you want more brightness, maybe you should consider another headphone? Beyer DT990 comes to mind as a brighter headphone than HD600.


 
  
 Probably, but I am saying the level of brightness of the HD600 with the magni 2 uber is quite nice to me. We can establish it as the goal, the standard. I dont want another headphones, at this point. I want the improvements I described. 
  
 Bjut thanks, Ithought about Beyers. They keep coming out in my threads because of my expressed loved for the Klipsch sound signature (lots of people think I should give them a try becaus they are somehow similar, bright).


----------



## RickB

alitomr said:


> Probably, but I am saying the level of brightness of the HD600 with the magni 2 uber is quite nice to me. We can establish it as the goal, the standard. I dont want another headphones, at this point. I want the improvements I described.
> 
> Bjut thanks, Ithought about Beyers. They keep coming out in my threads because of my expressed loved for the Klipsch sound signature (lots of people think I should give them a try becaus they are somehow similar, bright).


 
 FWIW, I have owned Asgard 2 in the past and I would consider it brighter than the Valhalla 2.


----------



## alitomr

ltsfbh said:


> Sounds like you are getting caught up in the downward spiral of "upgraditis"! You make it seem that your Val2 and 600's are synergistic enough to bring you enjoyment about 90% of the time. Seems pointless to chase a solution for only 10% of your problem. Trust me, you will never find a combo that gives you absolutely everything you are hoping to hear each and every time. If you manage to find another amp, tubes, etc. that corrects the small issues you notice, what effect will there be on the rest of the music that you are currently enjoying? If there is a sonic difference to the 10% there will also be a difference to the rest and it might not be a good change! Time to sit back and start enjoying the music and stop chasing a fix that will only have you end up trying to fix something else later. Just my opinion.


 
  
 Hey, nice post! But in all honesty, When i came back to the hobby I decided i was going to invest some money to listen to a few amps with the HD600 and 650, just to get my impressions of how things change with different equipment. Before i received the MM" uber stack and then the Valhalla 2 I had plans to get the Asgard 2 and even the Lyr 2, just to see how much of an improvement I can hear and see what I like best considering the investments. The Valhalla 2 has made me think about stopping right here and be happy, but I think that even as a learning process and probably to prevent future upgraditis so well known by us audio enthusiasts, I think I should go ahead and try the equipment the budget allows. I am justifying the expenses as a kind of academic, scientific research to really know if we are all crazy or there is really improvements to be had for more money, and to what extent. 
  
 The songs I point and root of curiosity probably lies in that even those songs and the overall experience should be better if the amp was a little brighter, or if the magni 2 uber had better clarity, soundstage, instrument separation and detail and better, tighter bass. 
  
 Did I explain myself clearly?


rickb said:


> FWIW, I have owned Asgard 2 in the past and I would consider it brighter than the Valhalla 2.


 
  
 See, if the Asgard 2 is brighter than the Valhalla 2 and has the same clarity and instrument separation, it is probably all I am looking for.


----------



## 520RanchBro

alitomr said:


> See, if the Asgard 2 is brighter than the Valhalla 2 and has the same clarity and instrument separation, it is probably all I am looking for.


 
 Just a word of caution, I've seen plenty of impressions here from folks who can hardly hear the difference between the M2 and the A2, might be worth looking in to as I don't think you'll get a drastically different sound from the switch.


----------



## LTSFBH

alitomr said:


> Hey, nice post! But in all honesty, When i came back to the hobby I decided i was going to invest some money to listen to a few amps with the HD600 and 650, just to get my impressions of how things change with different equipment. Before i received the MM" uber stack and then the Valhalla 2 I had plans to get the Asgard 2 and even the Lyr 2, just to see how much of an improvement I can hear and see what I like best considering the investments. The Valhalla 2 has made me think about stopping right here and be happy, but I think that even as a learning process and probably to prevent future upgraditis so well known by us audio enthusiasts, I think I should go ahead and try the equipment the budget allows. I am justifying the expenses as a kind of academic, scientific research to really know if we are all crazy or there is really improvements to be had for more money, and to what extent.
> 
> The songs I point and root of curiosity probably lies in that even those songs and the overall experience should be better if the amp was a little brighter, or if the magni 2 uber had better clarity, soundstage, instrument separation and detail and better, tighter bass.
> 
> ...




Hey I hear you loud and clear! I'm speaking from experience. I've been through a ridiculous amount of combos. I've settled on my Valhalla, Lyr and Lyr 2. I'm hoping to add a Val 2, because I know I will like it. Using a Mani 2 Uber and Audio Alchemy DACs.


----------



## FLTWS

alitomr said:


> Hey, nice post! But in all honesty, When i came back to the hobby I decided i was going to invest some money to listen to a few amps with the HD600 and 650, just to get my impressions of how things change with different equipment. Before i received the MM" uber stack and then the Valhalla 2 I had plans to get the Asgard 2 and even the Lyr 2, just to see how much of an improvement I can hear and see what I like best considering the investments. The Valhalla 2 has made me think about stopping right here and be happy, but I think that even as a learning process and probably to prevent future upgraditis so well known by us audio enthusiasts, I think I should go ahead and try the equipment the budget allows. I am justifying the expenses as a kind of academic, scientific research to really know if we are all crazy or there is really improvements to be had for more money, and to what extent.
> 
> The songs I point and root of curiosity probably lies in that even those songs and the overall experience should be better if the amp was a little brighter, or if the magni 2 uber had better clarity, soundstage, instrument separation and detail and better, tighter bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Of course we're all crazy. But I think the process we go through is a big part of the fun (and sometimes frustration) of being an audiophile. The payoff at the end of each upgrade project should be improvements to our listening enjoyment. The two thoughts I try to keep in mind during evaluations are "is it better" or "is it just different". A dose of patience helps and I always keep my budget in mind. Have at it. Have fun.


----------



## LTSFBH

Hit reply too quickly. Meant to add that I exclusively use Grados SR325e and PS500e headphones. These combos work for me almost all the time. When there is something that I don't quite like it almost always comes down to the recording itself.


----------



## alitomr

520ranchbro said:


> Just a word of caution, I've seen plenty of impressions here from folks who can hardly hear the difference between the M2 and the A2, might be worth looking in to as I don't think you'll get a drastically different sound from the switch.


 
 I've read many posts saying this. Based on my limited experience I now know that a lot of the "no difference" can be attributed to the recordings people use. There are a lot of songs in my collection that sound almost exactly the same in the magni 2 uber and the Valhalla 2. Lots where you have to really struggle to catch that little more detail in the cymbals of that particular note of the bass that you now hear with the better amp, if you know what I mean. 
  
 Of course, I am not saying it is THE ONLY source of the situation, as listening can be quite subjective and hence complex, but this has been my experience.
  


fltws said:


> Of course we're all crazy. But I think the process we go through is a big part of the fun (and sometimes frustration) of being an audiophile. The payoff at the end of each upgrade project should be improvements to our listening enjoyment. The two thoughts I try to keep in mind during evaluations are "is it better" or "is it just different". A dose of patience helps and I always keep my budget in mind. Have at it. Have fun.


 
 Thanks!
  
  


ltsfbh said:


> Hit reply too quickly. Meant to add that I exclusively use Grados SR325e and PS500e headphones. These combos work for me almost all the time. When there is something that I don't quite like it almost always comes down to the recording itself.


 
 Yeah, I think there is a lot of that!!  Read my first response in this message/post.


----------



## LTSFBH

First a quick correction from one of my posts. I meant a Modi 2 Uber, not Mani. 

Here's my litmus test... I have a particular song, on a particular live CD, that sonically ticks all the right boxes for me. When I change any part of the audio chain, I listen to that. If it sounds good and I don't want to stop listening, then I know the combo will be a good one.


----------



## alitomr

ltsfbh said:


> First a quick correction from one of my posts. I meant a Modi 2 Uber, not Mani.
> 
> Here's my litmus test... I have a particular song, on a particular live CD, that sonically ticks all the right boxes for me. When I change any part of the audio chain, I listen to that. If it sounds good and I don't want to stop listening, then I know the combo will be a good one.


 
 This is a good one. I can tell you that I absolutely love my current combo of modi2u-Valhalla2-HD600. My next test is going to be the DAC. I am having a hard time noticing a difference with the DAC in my yamaha receiver vs. the modi2u. 
  
 At this point i am pretty clear on the differences and improvements in going from the magni2u to the valhalla 2, and the Valhalla is a keeper for sure. That doesnt mean I cant have a second amp with a different sound signature that I also like for certain songs, maybe gaming and movies or whatever. 
  
 Somebody ask if the V2 has been burned in. I've had it for about 10 days and it has been on for the most part. It has been on for 4 days straight at this moment. I cant say i notice a big difference in sound from immediately turned on or on for 3 days, but I haven't tried to test that. It sounds great all the time is all I can say. 
  
 I like your test, and I have several discs and songs that I love and am very familiar with. I guess this test could be good...
  
 Anyone recommending tubes to make the Valhalla 2 a little more forward sounding than the stocks?


----------



## mysticstryk

alitomr said:


> This is a good one. I can tell you that I absolutely love my current combo of modi2u-Valhalla2-HD600. My next test is going to be the DAC. I am having a hard time noticing a difference with the DAC in my yamaha receiver vs. the modi2u.
> 
> At this point i am pretty clear on the differences and improvements in going from the magni2u to the valhalla 2, and the Valhalla is a keeper for sure. That doesnt mean I cant have a second amp with a different sound signature that I also like for certain songs, maybe gaming and movies or whatever.
> 
> ...




I found that going from the original Modi 2 Uber to the Bifrost 4490 I have now yielded a bigger difference than my upgrade from the Vali 2 to Valhalla 2. 

Visit the Valhalla tube rolling thread HERE for some good ideas and help finding a good set of tubes.


----------



## elephante211

alitomr said:


> ltsfbh said:
> 
> 
> > First a quick correction from one of my posts. I meant a Modi 2 Uber, not Mani.
> ...




Do your tubes a service and turn off your amp man! There is no reason to leave it on for more than around 12 hours. Burn it takes time. Be patient. Don't rush it.


----------



## mysticstryk

Yep, your only draining the life of your tunes, they don't last forever. The Valhalla warms up pretty fast after turning it on.


----------



## alitomr

What is the life expectancy of the stock tubes in the Valhalla?


----------



## MWSVette

alitomr said:


> What is the life expectancy of the stock tubes in the Valhalla?



 



5,000 to 10,000 hours...


----------



## H-Money

I am very curious to see which schiit amps/dacs will play nice with the focal elears.
  
 Starting to scratch at the upgrade itch.


----------



## kejar31

h-money said:


> I am very curious to see which schiit amps/dacs will play nice with the focal elears.
> 
> Starting to scratch at the upgrade itch.


 
  
 I tried the Focal Elear and Utopia with my Bifrost (4490) / Lyr2 stack this last weekend at the Chicago meet. I thought they worked well together. While I personally was not a fan of the Elear I can see that HD650 owners are going to really love it.


----------



## mikebarber1

Audioholics reviews Yggdrasil and Ragnarok
  
 http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/schiit-yggdrasil-and-ragnarok


----------



## rnros

mikebarber1 said:


> Audioholics reviews Yggdrasil and Ragnarok
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/schiit-yggdrasil-and-ragnarok



Thanks!


----------



## FLTWS

I see Raggy orders have been pushed out another week per the website. Of course, I ordered mine yesterday, LOL!!!


----------



## Rossliew

Just ordered the new Jotunheim amp with passive phono module..very affordable gear with such good features!


----------



## Paladin79

rossliew said:


> Just ordered the new Jotunheim amp with passive phono module..very affordable gear with such good features!


 
 I like the modular concept. They appear to be offering the balanced dac upgrade for the same price so to me, that is even a better deal considering the circuitry involved.


----------



## Rossliew

paladin79 said:


> I like the modular concept. They appear to be offering the balanced dac upgrade for the same price so to me, that is even a better deal considering the circuitry involved.


 

 I'm planning to move into vinyl, not too deeply but since i listen to metal mostly, a lot of releases are exclusive to vinyl so that's my motivation here


----------



## Paladin79

rossliew said:


> I'm planning to move into vinyl, not too deeply but since i listen to metal mostly, a lot of releases are exclusive to vinyl so that's my motivation here


 
 I do vinyl as well and in no way was I attempting to comment on your choice. In looking at the two modules and having a background in electronics I just felt if I were to build those two circuit boards the components on the dac would cost a lot more IMHO. Both are an excellent price by all means and it is nice to have either option for such a price.


----------



## Rossliew

paladin79 said:


> I do vinyl as well and in no way was I attempting to comment on your choice. In looking at the two modules and having a background in electronics I just felt if I were to build those two circuit boards the components on the dac would cost a lot more IMHO. Both are an excellent price by all means and it is nice to have either option for such a price.


 

 Ohh..no, no, no, i was in NO way offended, rest assured  I had contemplated about the DAC module but since i already have the Bifrost MB and an Audio Note DAC4.1, a phono stage would serve my needs better going forward  
  
 But yes i do agree with you that the amp is an all round bang for your buck product that's worth supporting.


----------



## JohnBal

I may have missed the answer to my question somewhere, but do we know if the card can be swapped in the field, or does it need to be sent to Schiit?


----------



## Paladin79

rossliew said:


> Ohh..no, no, no, i was in NO way offended, rest assured  I had contemplated about the DAC module but since i already have the Bifrost MB and an Audio Note DAC4.1, a phono stage would serve my needs better going forward
> 
> But yes i do agree with you that the amp is an all round bang for your buck product that's worth supporting.


 
 I have a few dacs and a couple phono preamps and I would do the bare amp except it is such a good deal to add a stage. It would be nice to know if a person could get both the phono preamp and the dac and swap them out if their needs changed.


----------



## theveterans

Do you guys think that Jotunheim amp is Class AB based? I highly doubt that it can deliver 5W of power on pure Class A design without it frying?


----------



## madwolfa

theveterans said:


> Do you guys think that Jotunheim amp is Class AB based? I highly doubt that it can deliver 5W of power on pure Class A design without it frying?


 
  
 Think Asgard 2 remains the only pure Class A amp in the lineup. However, I'm sure Jotunheim is biased to work in Class A most of the time.


----------



## StanD

theveterans said:


> Do you guys think that Jotunheim amp is Class AB based? I highly doubt that it can deliver 5W of power on pure Class A design without it frying?


 
 They came up with some new Schiit for this design. I would not worry about the 5W frying the amp which might get much hotter than an Asgard 2. If one might run 5W of continuous audio output, they should be more concerned about frying their ears


----------



## bretemm

I have the Valhalla2 and Bifrost DS, 
What would putting the Jotunheim as a pre-amp 
in the middle do? (But also listening from it as well). 
Sometimes I don't like waiting to have the Valhalla2 warm up and I'm looking into Vinyl soon. 
Thank you


----------



## theveterans

Double amping is bad so don't put Jotunheim between DAC and Vahalla 2. It's either you get the Jotunheim as a phono preamp for Vinyl or listen to digital music with tube sound from Valhalla 2 on a headphone/speaker setup. You can also go all solid state with Jotunheim.


----------



## polecrab

For those of you who've gotten warranty service from Schiit, how long was the turnaround time? They've had my unit for 2 weeks now and I'm wondering if that's par for the course.


----------



## Letmebefrank

polecrab said:


> For those of you who've gotten warranty service from Schiit, how long was the turnaround time? They've had my unit for 2 weeks now and I'm wondering if that's par for the course.




Took a couple days for the repair on my Magni 2. I would email them about the status of your repair. They are super busy with the Schiit Show and Jotunheim.


----------



## D Smith

polecrab said:


> For those of you who've gotten warranty service from Schiit, how long was the turnaround time? They've had my unit for 2 weeks now and I'm wondering if that's par for the course.


 
 I recently had my Modi serviced under warranty and they turned it around in a few days. Shipping back to me took almost a week though but it works perfectly now.


----------



## orphean

Just out of curiosity what happened with the Modi that required service?


----------



## radiojam

Sorry if this has already been addressed but has anyone come up with a screw-on rubber feet solution, maybe one that integrates with the existing screw holes?  Specifically the Bifrost.  I wouldn't even know how to tell what type of screw it is, thread size, etc. Trying to avoid anything adhesive if possible.


----------



## bretemm

theveterans said:


> Double amping is bad so don't put Jotunheim between DAC and Vahalla 2. It's either you get the Jotunheim as a phono preamp for Vinyl or listen to digital music with tube sound from Valhalla 2 on a headphone/speaker setup. You can also go all solid state with Jotunheim.



Thank you, I do hear noise with the Valhalla2 with my iems (I'm limited because I can't get by strong magnets) I might look into a iem that Jude listed in the Jot review. Solid state is was suggested to me acouple times before.


----------



## polecrab

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like my 2-week wait is an anomaly.


----------



## victoranastacio

bretemm said:


> I have the Valhalla2 and Bifrost DS,
> What would putting the Jotunheim as a pre-amp
> in the middle do? (But also listening from it as well).
> Sometimes I don't like waiting to have the Valhalla2 warm up and I'm looking into Vinyl soon.
> Thank you


 

 Just happens that I'm considering the Valhalla2 + Bitfrost combo. I'm very interested in how that combo sounds as I think, we have similar rock music tastes. This week my Beyerdynamic T1.2s arrived and as they go through burning phase, they sound pretty good with a portable Onkyo HA200 DAC/AMP. I'm just beginning to realize how much I love the T1.2s and they are not yet truly shining with better gear. The dilemma is, I live in Canada, and importing the Valhalla2 + Bitfrost will cost $500 more after currency exchange, duty, shipping and tax. Ugh! Please let me know if you think this is a great combo or something else. Thanks


----------



## bretemm

victoranastacio said:


> Just happens that I'm considering the Valhalla2 + Bitfrost combo. I'm very interested in how that combo sounds as I think, we have similar rock music tastes. This week my Beyerdynamic T1.2s arrived and as they go through burning phase, they sound pretty good with a portable Onkyo HA200 DAC/AMP. I'm just beginning to realize how much I love the T1.2s and they are not yet truly shining with better gear. The dilemma is, I live in Canada, and importing the Valhalla2 + Bitfrost will cost $500 more after currency exchange, duty, shipping and tax. Ugh! Please let me know if you think this is a great combo or something else. Thanks




Great! Yes I think they go great together. I have the Magni and Modi first, then I go the Valhalla2 and used the Modi with it, then I got the Bifrost. The modi vs the Bifrost, I think the Bifrost adds more of a "stable"? And stronger type of a soundstage (kinda). The Valhalla2 really helps bring out details in classic and indie rock.


----------



## victoranastacio

bretemm said:


> Great! Yes I think they go great together. I have the Magni and Modi first, then I go the Valhalla2 and used the Modi with it, then I got the Bifrost. The modi vs the Bifrost, I think the Bifrost adds more of a "stable"? And stronger type of a soundstage (kinda). The Valhalla2 really helps bring out details in classic and indie rock.


 

 Nice. 


bretemm said:


> Great! Yes I think they go great together. I have the Magni and Modi first, then I go the Valhalla2 and used the Modi with it, then I got the Bifrost. The modi vs the Bifrost, I think the Bifrost adds more of a "stable"? And stronger type of a soundstage (kinda). The Valhalla2 really helps bring out details in classic and indie rock.


 

 Nice and thanks for the quick reply. I'm excited to sample the Valalla2+Bitfrost combo and need to figure out how to get them into Canada without it costing me almost double.


----------



## RickB

victoranastacio said:


> Nice.
> 
> Nice and thanks for the quick reply. I'm excited to sample the Valalla2+Bitfrost combo and need to figure out how to get them into Canada without it costing me almost double.


 
 It looks like they have the Bifrost here for a discounted price. I didn't see the Valhalla 2, though.
  
 http://www.headphonebar.com/schiit-bifrost/


----------



## GumbyDammit223

victoranastacio said:


> Just happens that I'm considering the Valhalla2 + Bitfrost combo. I'm very interested in how that combo sounds as I think, we have similar rock music tastes. This week my Beyerdynamic T1.2s arrived and as they go through burning phase, they sound pretty good with a portable Onkyo HA200 DAC/AMP. I'm just beginning to realize how much I love the T1.2s and they are not yet truly shining with better gear. The dilemma is, I live in Canada, and importing the Valhalla2 + Bitfrost will cost $500 more after currency exchange, duty, shipping and tax. Ugh! Please let me know if you think this is a great combo or something else. Thanks


 
  
 I love how my Valhalla 2 & Bifrost sound with my HD-700's.  I listen to everything from classical and jazz to 70's rock and Berlin-school electronic music and can't say enough things about how they work so well together.  If you do get the Val 2, invest in a set of socket savers to raise the tubes out of the enclosure to cool it down a bit.  It still gets hot, but not as hot as without them installed.


----------



## Paladin79

gumbydammit223 said:


> I love how my Valhalla 2 & Bifrost sound with my HD-700's.  I listen to everything from classical and jazz to 70's rock and Berlin-school electronic music and can't say enough things about how they work so well together.  If you do get the Val 2, invest in a set of socket savers to raise the tubes out of the enclosure to cool it down a bit.  It still gets hot, but not as hot as without them installed.


 

 Good point on the socket savers. It can also save wear and tear on your original sockets in the event you roll tubes as much as I do.


----------



## franzdom

Question on the muting relay in Lyr 2, does it work the same whether you are switching the power on at the switch on the case or if you leave the switch on and switch externally?


----------



## Netrum

rickb said:


> It looks like they have the Bifrost here for a discounted price. I didn't see the Valhalla 2, though.
> 
> http://www.headphonebar.com/schiit-bifrost/




That is the normal price.
Why pay more when you can buy directly from schiit.com?


----------



## RickB

netrum said:


> That is the normal price.
> Why pay more when you can buy directly from schiit.com?


 
 That's Canadian dollars, not USD.


----------



## Netrum

Wow now that changes everything 
A lot cheaper then here in Europe.


----------



## notfitforpublic

rickb said:


> It looks like they have the Bifrost here for a discounted price. I didn't see the Valhalla 2, though.
> 
> http://www.headphonebar.com/schiit-bifrost/


 
  


victoranastacio said:


> Nice.
> 
> Nice and thanks for the quick reply. I'm excited to sample the Valalla2+Bitfrost combo and need to figure out how to get them into Canada without it costing me almost double.


 

 Also a satisfied Valhalla/Bifrost 4490 user here. Fantastic combo with my HD600 and T1's. Stock tubes really didn't appeal to me, so some tube rolling was necessary. Since settling on some tubes I've had no urge to upgrade or try anything different. I moved from the Modi/Vali combo and the shift was well worth the dollars. That being said, I also recently bought a Garage1217 Polaris for low impedance cans and to fill the void for warm up time on the Valhalla.
  
 Headphone Bar's deal on the Bifrost 4490 is a no brainer IMO, they're a great shop for Canadians. Their price right now is pretty stellar and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find the same configuration used for much less. Most of their stock comes with free shipping and the staff is great with inquiries and quick to give support. They won't carry the Valhalla however, made the inquiry myself before buying mine from Schiit directly and the answer was they had issues getting a consistent stock from Schiit to their liking. Keep an eye or post a wanted ad on canuckaudiomart.com. They pop up there from time to time but consider that Schiit doesn't transfer warranty on used product. So unless the price is too good to pass up, biting the bullet and buying from Schiit directly might be a better option.


----------



## Doneko

I remember Jason advising people upgrading their transducers before spending a ton on electronics. I can't find that quote. Can someone help? Where did I read that?


----------



## sheldaze

doneko said:


> I remember Jason advising people upgrading their transducers before spending a ton on electronics. I can't find that quote. Can someone help? Where did I read that?


 
 In chapter 9, The Elephant in the Room, he talks a lot about it.
  
*2016, Chapter 9: The Elephant In The Room*


----------



## bretemm

I'm listening to a CD of the Greatfull Dead through a Valhalla2 Bifrost DS setup, it sounds way better then thorough my FIIO and iPod. The bass and deep notes weren't as good and I could tell the music was weak, but Schiit is really clearing it up and details.


----------



## jchandler3

franzdom said:


> Question on the muting relay in Lyr 2, does it work the same whether you are switching the power on at the switch on the case or if you leave the switch on and switch externally?




Curious about this same thing. My pile of Schiit is difficult to reach and I'd love to power up and down with a remote outlet.


----------



## Paladin79

jchandler3 said:


> Curious about this same thing. My pile of Schiit is difficult to reach and I'd love to power up and down with a remote outlet.




Do a search on EBay for Side Socket, it is a six outlet power strip with remote control.


----------



## franzdom

I use the iHome plug from Home Depot $29 only mention that because Amazon wanted 39.
 I have the amp scheduled to turn on a couple hours before I use it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 It turns out that the mute relay works at least on turn on and I think it does on turnoff as well.


----------



## jchandler3

franzdom said:


> It turns out that the mute relay works at least on turn on and I think it does on turnoff as well.




This is what I've been wondering... do the components power up and down in the same way as flipping the switch? I'd hate for it to be damaging them in some way.


----------



## jchandler3

I asked Schiit about powering on and off with a power strip or remote outlet:

Yes it should be fine.

Nick T
Schiit Tech

tech@schiit.com


----------



## 1adam12

Has anyone done a Gumby upgrade recently? I'm, like, 8th or something in the queue and am wondering how long I may have to wait.


----------



## davidflas

thegimp said:


> Has anyone done a Gumby upgrade recently? I'm, like, 8th or something in the queue and am wondering how long I may have to wait.


 

 I recently did this, I was 2nd in the cue and it took only a few days to get my email that I could send my Gungnir in for the upgrade. Once Schiit had it, it took about 5 more days to get the email that acknowledging that they had it and would be starting the upgrade process. One week later, I got the email that my Gumby was being shipped back to me.


----------



## 1adam12

davidflas said:


> I've recently did this, I was 2nd in the cue and it took only a few days to get my email that I could send my Gungnir in for the upgrade. Once Schiit had it, it took about 5 more days to get the email that acknowledging that that had it and would be starting the upgrade process. One week later, I got the email that my Gumby was being shipped back to me.


 

 Oh wow. Longer than I expected, then. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## JoshuaJ0

Can anyone suggest a good amp that would pair well with both the HD600s and HD800s? Preferably under $500. I know the Bottlehead Crack is a very popular one but preferably no DIY amps. Thanks!


----------



## Gavin C4

joshuaj0 said:


> Can anyone suggest a good amp that would pair well with both the HD600s and HD800s? Preferably under $500. I know the Bottlehead Crack is a very popular one but preferably no DIY amps. Thanks!


 
 Schiit Jotunheim can be a solid choice that suits your price range. Compacted dac amp combo at the same time allows you to use Balanced on your HD800S and single ended on your HD600


----------



## kyuu

do you think it can real power the he-6?


----------



## kothganesh

kyuu said:


> do you think it can real power the he-6?


 
 I tried the HE 6 with the Jotunheim last night. Let's put it this way: there is a reason some folks (including me) use power amps with the HE 6. So short answer is: no. I used the SE. I should probably try balanced as well.


----------



## Gavin C4

My Gumby arrived. First impression my favourite song is still my favourite song. But every detail just have more texture. For a few recordings I can find some thing that I was totally unable to hear before with my old setup. I listened to the Gumby for a day, to quantify the improvement over my old dac (Dr Dac2 DX), it was a solid 25-30% upgrade. Is the upgrade worth it for the price difference of $1200 Gumby vs $200 (previous) Dac? If you are an intensive listener, most of you hobby time would be listening to music then you are cool. If you are just one of those casual listener who plays the music in the background while you are gaming etc then I would recommend less expensive alternative the bifrost and modi 2. Both of them delivers superb performance at a sweet price range. 
  
 After the upgrade, I never looked back to the old dac. Overall I am extremely happy with the upgrade.


----------



## MWSVette

kyuu said:


> do you think it can real power the he-6?


 
  
 It can and does not sound bad at all.  That said I gererally use a 45watt speaker and to drive them and I do like the sound signature from my speaker amp better than the Jotinheim with the HE-6.
  
 I have about a dozen sets of headphones, none of them sound bad on the Jotunheim.  Some just sound better than others...


----------



## JoshuaJ0

gavin c4 said:


> Schiit Jotunheim can be a solid choice that suits your price range. Compacted dac amp combo at the same time allows you to use Balanced on your HD800S and single ended on your HD600


 
 Thanks for your response! Sorry I meant that I have a pair of HD800's not HD800S, sorry if I was unclear.


----------



## billtboys

I own the Jotunheim.  So far it's brought out the best in every headphone I've used on it. I'll report again after I get my HE 1000s back. It brings out all the detail that I think I'm capable of hearing. It has this smooth quality that all DAC/Amps should have. It's amazing that it's only 500 bucks! I thought I was going to have to pay a couple of grand to get really good sound.


----------



## JoshuaJ0

billtboys said:


> I own the Jotunheim.  So far it's brought out the best in every headphone I've used on it. I'll report again after I get my HE 1000s back. It brings out all the detail that I think I'm capable of hearing. It has this smooth quality that all DAC/Amps should have. It's amazing that it's only 500 bucks! I thought I was going to have to pay a couple of grand to get really good sound.


 
 Wow that's good to hear! I'll consider it, maybe a Christmas present to myself to justify the price haha.


----------



## Gavin C4

joshuaj0 said:


> Wow that's good to hear! I'll consider it, maybe a Christmas present to myself to justify the price haha.


 
 Besides from the good dac/amp, Jotunheim is also very versatile. Since HD600 and HD800 is so popular, you can easily find some good balanced cable to pair it up with the Jotunheim. Balance may take you to the next level in this hobby. 






 Its just a future proof solution for any reason that you might or may upgrade to a balanced headphone. Especially for the the HD800 since it is so sensitive to change.
  
 Another alternative for tubes and single end will be bifrost + Lyr 2 stack. 
 Both choices provide good solid power at 300ohms to power you headphones


----------



## JoshuaJ0

gavin c4 said:


> Besides from the good dac/amp, Jotunheim is also very versatile. Since HD600 and HD800 is so popular, you can easily find some good balanced cable to pair it up with the Jotunheim. Balance may take you to the next level in this hobby.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The Bifrost+Lyr stack is a bit too costly for me rn, but I'm definitely considering the Jotunheim and a balanced cable for the HD800, does their sound really change that much when you switch to a balanced cable?


----------



## billtboys

JoshuaJo,
       This This video is what clinched it for me. 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVmylqNQGQ
  
 By the way, I'm a newbie here, so please, someone tell me if it's okay to put up links like that. Schit is really coming up in the world. Their reputation is growing.  In the video he says the Jotunheim may be the most versatile DAC/Amp combo that's out there. He backs it up by talking about testing the Jot by listening to an array of IEMs with his extremely sensitive pair in the mix. All sounded great. Same results with the following headphones: Hifiman HE-6, Focal Elear and Utopia, Mr. Speakers Ether Flow and Ether C Flow, BeyerDynamic T-1, and 1990 Pro, Sennheiser HD 800 and the 800s. I probably had you at HE-6. This is probably gonna sound overly dramatic but, there is a smoothness to it. It's not a noise...It's like somebody just kind of lightly polished the edges of the sound signature, without taking the raw out of a raw recording that was intending to be raw. I mean the music sounds like it should, just smoother. And I don't me warmer, I mean smoother. The amp by itself is, for my ears, perfect. I can get a spectacular sound just by hooking my iPhone up to my portable Oppo DAC/Amp and into the Jot. Plus, it's got a balanced four pin input along with the quarter inch. Like I said, versatile. 
 My argument for the 500 dollar (Amp: 400, DAC 100) price tag, is that it's actual value is  in what it can do for your sound. I'm feel pretty secure saying that if its price were 1000 dollars, few people would be disappointed in the sound. Merry Christmas.


----------



## JoshuaJ0

billtboys said:


> JoshuaJo,
> This This video is what clinched it for me.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWVmylqNQGQ
> 
> ...


 
 Just watched that video and reading your comment I feel pretty sold. Guess that's what I'm making my Christmas gift this year haha. I have heard people say that this dac/amp performs better than ones priced at 1000 or more.


----------



## billtboys

I have to be honest and say that the only DAC I've listened to that cost more than a thousand dollars is the AK-240 player and I don't think you can compare. (Apples and Oranges) But the quality is apparent and I don't think I'm capable of hearing detail any better. I think it's actually going to be my endgame.  Don't need tube. I get it. I mean I understand the attraction, but I think I'm fine with what I've got.


----------



## JoshuaJ0

I hear ya, yeah I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference between a $500 amp and a $1000 amp in my current listening situation. I really want to get a tube amp just for dat tube glow, they look so GOOD


----------



## TwilightCoda

Are there any Schiit owners using the HD 700's? I'm looking at either the Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2, but I really can't tell if going with tubes is a good idea.


----------



## billtboys

I hear ya.  Tube amps are pretty cool. I must admit, I can see the possibility of getting something inexpensive like the Dark Voice just to have the different listening experience.


----------



## Sam Lord

joshuaj0 said:


> The Bifrost+Lyr stack is a bit too costly for me rn, but I'm definitely considering the Jotunheim and a balanced cable for the HD800, does their sound really change that much when you switch to a balanced cable?


 
  
 Just speaking from an electronic point of view, I can't believe they still make expensive unbalanced headphones.  It's a terrible way to drive any set of stereo transducers, because the negatives on each channel directly connect.  If you did that with loudspeakers (and said so on the forums) you would be thrashed, boiled, starved, and even criticized.  Not that I'm suggesting anything.


----------



## Gavin C4

It maybe due to the reason that there are still a lot of single ended device out there. Using usb and floppy disk as an analogy. For example usb type-C 3.1 that offers 40GB/s transfer speed that totally rekt USB Type-A 3.0. However there are still a lot of USB out there and it is hard to get everyone change to usb type-c in a short while. 
  
 However in the audio world, it is relative harder to change all single end to balance. I dont really see the total elimination of single end, like the elimination of floppy disk to usb. A majority change to usb type-c may possibily happen in the comming 5 to 10 years, but I am unable to see majority changing from single end to balanced in a short while. Most likely will only be the removal of 3.5mm jack and all switching to lightning LOL.


----------



## StanD

sam lord said:


> Just speaking from an electronic point of view, I can't believe they still make expensive unbalanced headphones.  It's a terrible way to drive any set of stereo transducers, because the negatives on each channel directly connect.  If you did that with loudspeakers (and said so on the forums) you would be thrashed, boiled, starved, and even criticized.  Not that I'm suggesting anything.


 
 And how does, "negatives on each channel directly connect" affect SQ? All of my SE cables have their commons (negative) connected at the plug, not a shared wire in the cable, which is the correct way of doing things. Even not using individual wires for the commons are unlikely to have an audible affect unless the cable has a high resistance and the transducers are of a low impedance.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

twilightcoda said:


> Are there any Schiit owners using the HD 700's? I'm looking at either the Asgard 2 or Valhalla 2, but I really can't tell if going with tubes is a good idea.


 
  
 That's the setup on my computer plus the Bifrost.  I really like it!  I think the Valhalla's tubes (stock) tame the highs in some music that the HD 700's are known to accentuate.  I would recommend the setup for sure!


----------



## Sam Lord

gavin c4 said:


> It maybe due to the reason that there are still a lot of single ended device out there. Using usb and floppy disk as an analogy. For example usb type-C 3.1 that offers 40GB/s transfer speed that totally rekt USB Type-A 3.0. However there are still a lot of USB out there and it is hard to get everyone change to usb type-c in a short while.
> 
> However in the audio world, it is relative harder to change all single end to balance. I dont really see the total elimination of single end, like the elimination of floppy disk to usb. A majority change to usb type-c may possibily happen in the comming 5 to 10 years, but I am unable to see majority changing from single end to balanced in a short while. Most likely will only be the removal of 3.5mm jack and all switching to lightning LOL.


 
  
 No doubt.  Even with the sad loss of the analog jack on iPhones, right after they were making such nice sounds, the move to USB C and other types opens up a new world.  I like my USB C connection on my Nexus 6P, even though the most important part of this expensive phone, *phone sound*, really sucks! 
 EDIT: especially compared to my old HTC M8 which was sacrificed to Poseiden: salt water ....
  


stand said:


> And how does, "negatives on each channel directly connect" affect SQ? All of my SE cables have their commons (negative) connected at the plug, not a shared wire in the cable, which is the correct way of doing things. Even not using individual wires for the commons are unlikely to have an audible affect unless the cable has a high resistance and the transducers are of a low impedance.


 
  
 A nice argument!  And correct.  I wish you were around to help me out on another forum when I was talking up the benefits of bi-wiring in certain situations.  Yes you are getting much less distortion in your cans that way. ("Four-wire?")  I don't know which high-end headphones do keep those wires separate nearly to the main jack, probably most.
  
 But some distortion arises from the mating of those grounds.  They do sum significant currents that flow uniquely to each channel, causing crosstalk that is several times higher than a balanced or merely separated circuit should provide.  You can lessen it with low-impedance wiring, but you can't match the separation of far more independent circuits.


----------



## StanD

sam lord said:


> :
> :
> 
> A nice argument!  And correct.  I wish you were around to help me out on another forum when I was talking up the benefits of bi-wiring in certain situations.  Yes you are getting much less distortion in your cans that way. ("Four-wire?")  I don't know which high-end headphones do keep those wires separate nearly to the main jack, probably most.
> ...


 
 Even the cheapest of my better grade headphones, Sennheiser HD600's have separate wires right down to the plug. These cans are 300 Ohms and if they shared a common ground wire I doubt that any resulting crosstalk would be audible.
 My Planar/Ortho cans are much lower impedance and might be more susceptible to such a problem, however, they have separate wires so that's not an issue.


----------



## kyuu

Anyone try listening to the jotunheim and paired it with the he-6? 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gavin C4

@kyuu 
 As you may read it already Jotunheim powering the HE-6. I would prefer having a dac module or another dac instead of using a phone to power analog signal
  



mwsvette said:


> It can and does not sound bad at all.  That said I gererally use a 45watt speaker and to drive them and I do like the sound signature from my speaker amp better than the Jotinheim with the HE-6.
> 
> I have about a dozen sets of headphones, none of them sound bad on the Jotunheim.  Some just sound better than others...


----------



## billtboys

Since I haven't heard the HE-6 I can't speak for it. A guy doing a review for Headfi said the Jot can handle the HE-6. None of the comments I've read that say the Jot can' t drive the HE-6 mention that  they've used it in the balanced four pin input on the back of the unit.  I'd like to know if somebody has and if it could drive them. I don't have the proper adapters to engage the DAC or the proper right and left XLRs to go into the balanced ports in the back of the unit right now, so I can't tell you how much louder the balanced port gets over the quarter inch port. Even If I never buy headphones as hard to drive as the HE-6, I'd really like to know it could handle it. It's strictly an ego issue....LOL


----------



## franzdom

billtboys said:


> Since I haven't heard the HE-6 I can't speak for it. A guy doing a review for Headfi said the Jot can handle the HE-6. None of the comments I've read that say the Jot can' t drive the HE-6 mention that  they've used it in the balanced four pin input on the back of the unit.  I'd like to know if somebody has and if it could drive them. I don't have the proper adapters to engage the DAC or the proper right and left XLRs to go into the balanced ports in the back of the unit right now, so I can't tell you how much louder the balanced port gets over the quarter inch port. Even If I never buy headphones as hard to drive as the HE-6, I'd really like to know it could handle it. It's strictly an ego issue....LOL


 
  
 I think the back is a preamp and wouldn't have the power that the front would. Also the front XLR has a LOT more power than the front SE outputs.


----------



## Gavin C4

I think the balance 4 pin xlr at the front should give enough power to drive the HE6 well. It wont sound bad, but it may be different to powering it with a 40-50w loud speaker amp.


----------



## MWSVette

gavin c4 said:


> I think the balance 4 pin xlr at the front should give enough power to drive the HE6 well. It wont sound bad, but it may be different to powering it with a 40-50w loud speaker amp.


 
 Exactly...


----------



## Gavin C4

However, I dont think we need to use the HE-6 as a basic standard for Jotunheim or any other amp. There are many other headphones that sound very good and required less power at least compare to the HE-6. HE-6 is just a beast, a mutated beast. You normally wont need that much power in other headphones. If you want 50w of power to power any other headphone, then you are looking for power speaker amp, not a headphone amp. If you are pushing 50w of power for example to a M50X, all I can hope for is that you wont burn down your house lol.


----------



## StanD

gavin c4 said:


> However, I dont think we need to use the HE-6 as a basic standard for Jotunheim or any other amp. There are many other headphones that sound very good and required less power at least compare to the HE-6. HE-6 is just a beast, a mutated beast. You normally wont need that much power in other headphones. If you want 50w of power to power any other headphone, then you are looking for power speaker amp, not a headphone amp. If you are pushing 50w of power for example to a M50X, all I can hope for is that you wont burn down your house lol.


 

 An Amp designed for speakers will not deliver the same wattage to headphones at the speaker taps.  The HE-6 is 50 Ohms, not the 4 or 8 Ohms that are typical for speakers. To deliver the same wattage at 50 Ohms would require a much larger voltage swing which would not be a design parameter for such an amp.


----------



## billtboys

Gavin C4,
 Your reply uncovers my confusion about this unit. I want my source to be an Astell and Kern AK 240 Hi-Rez player. . I want the heaphones to be plugged in to the four pin balanced XLR on the front of the unit. One question I have is this: If I want a balanced output (on the front of the unit where the cans are plugged in via the four pin on the front) do I need to come up with a cable that is 3.5mm on the 240 player and terminates in two three pin female XLR inputs on the back which is labeled balanced in? I would also like to know if the only way to engage the DAC, is to hook it up to a source via the USB on the DAC. I've emailed Schiit support for an answer. I don't expect you to solve this for me but your opinion is welcome.  Just felt like I needed to explain my situation so that I know we're on the same page.  The pre-amp output is also on the back of the unit and are two three pin male XLRs that are labeled pre out.You can accomplish the same thing with an RCA pre out.  Thanks for you comments.


----------



## KLJTech

You don't have to feed the amp via its XLR inputs to use its balanced headphone output. Enjoy!


----------



## Gavin C4

According to my Mjolnir 2, I can feed single ended input into it and both the 4 pin XLR and single ended out put at the front will work. I think the Jotunheim will do the same.


----------



## franzdom

Correct and as for the other question, the only DAC input is USB.
 For your AK you only need a 1/8" to RCA splitter.


----------



## billtboys

That's great. I've got four or five of those.  So you're saying the DAC is engaged the whole time, but you would use the USB only if you wanted to use the DAC by itself without the amp?


----------



## billtboys

LOL. Yeah, I've already switched from HD600s to Phillip SHP 9500s quickly without thinking.  I'm lucky the driver didn't explode and embed into my skull.


----------



## franzdom

billtboys said:


> That's great. I've got four or five of those.  So you're saying the DAC is engaged the whole time, but you would use the USB only if you wanted to use the DAC by itself without the amp?


 
  
 The DAC is optional the amp is not.


----------



## Gavin C4

billtboys said:


> That's great. I've got four or five of those.  So you're saying the DAC is engaged the whole time, but you would use the USB only if you wanted to use the DAC by itself without the amp?


 
 You can use the amp by feeding Jotunheim with Single Ended input or Balanced input. In this case you are only using the amp function and you listen from the SE and XLR from the front, and also you are able to use the PRE OUT at the back connect it with your powered speaker. 
  
 There are PRE OUT (Pre amp) both single end and balanced at the back. When you use USB input, you can take the signal from the Pre amp output at the back and connect it to powered speaker. Is that what you mean by only using the DAC itself? When you are using the Pre OUT, you can control the volume by using the volume nod at the front.
  
 But anything that goes through the Jotunheim will be amp(ed). If you dont want the amp, then the only option is to buy a seperate dac such as the Modi 2, bifrost, Gungnir


----------



## billtboys

So then you're saying the only way to engage the DAC is by USB?


----------



## billtboys

The DAC comment was apparently me misinterpreting what I heard a reviewer say. I think I'm only confusing the issue that I confused too much already. Let's forget I ever said that. It sounds like to me, in order to engage the DAC I have to go from micro USB on the AK240 and plug it into the USB on the Jot. Is that correct? BTW I've steered you in the wrong direction. I'm not using the preamp. I'm just wanting to listen to headphones. Sorry I'm being so thick.


----------



## Gavin C4

billtboys said:


> The DAC comment was apparently me misinterpreting what I heard a reviewer say. I think I'm only confusing the issue that I confused too much already. Let's forget I ever said that. It sounds like to me, in order to engage the DAC I have to go from micro USB on the AK240 and plug it into the USB on the Jot. Is that correct? BTW I've steered you in the wrong direction. I'm not using the preamp. I'm just wanting to listen to headphones. Sorry I'm being so thick.


 
 This link should have the information that you are finding. 
 http://schiit.com/guides/getting-connected


----------



## billtboys

Gavin C4,
 That was exactly what I needed. Thank you very much.


----------



## Gavin C4

The tube glow is so awesome. The minimalist design on Schiit amps is nice. Much better than some other tube amp with tubes and boxes sticking out at all bizarre directions.


----------



## FLTWS

gavin c4 said:


> The tube glow is so awesome. The minimalist design on Schiit amps is nice. Much better than some other tube amp with tubes and boxes sticking out at all bizarre directions.


 
  
 I like the minimalist look on my Schiit as well. I just ordered a Jodie a few hours ago to complete my pile of Schiit. This will fill up my equipment rack as well. Now I can get focused on auditioning and finalizing my stable of headphones. 
  
 But, I still get nostalgic every time I see gear by Woo, or Bottlehead, and others still building in the time honored tube tradition of days past. There's nothing like a couple of rows of EL34's or KT88's, (or 300B's for the well heeled) providing enough glow for mood lighting that you don't need any other lights on the room at night. Good times!


----------



## Sam Lord

stand said:


> Even the cheapest of my better grade headphones, Sennheiser HD600's have separate wires right down to the plug. These cans are 300 Ohms and if they shared a common ground wire I doubt that any resulting crosstalk would be audible.
> My Planar/Ortho cans are much lower impedance and might be more susceptible to such a problem, however, they have separate wires so that's not an issue.


 

 Hello Stan,
  
 Thanks for your comments.  This is a really late reply so I don't expect an answer from you but welcome responses from everyone.  Perhaps I wasn't clear: keeping separate wires merely *to the plug* will lower crosstalk in any circuit, but that is far inferior to a balanced *or* single-ended circuit which separates the grounds *within the amplifier.*  Connecting the grounds at the amp terminal is roughly equivalent to connecting the negative terminals of a power amp.    You could manage to do it with certain cheap, protective circuits and prevent catastrophe, but it would measure and sound lousy.
  
 Now, of course the current and reactance of a pair of headphone transducer negative terminal are vastly smaller than with loudspeakers, so you can easily get away with that topology without the need for protective circuits.  But the channel crosstalk of a linked ground SE circuit compared to a balanced or an unlinked circuit is vastly higher.  Headphone amps of the first type are not high-fidelity instruments.


----------



## StanD

sam lord said:


> Hello Stan,
> 
> Thanks for your comments.  This is a really late reply so I don't expect an answer from you but welcome responses from everyone.  Perhaps I wasn't clear: keeping separate wires merely *to the plug* will lower crosstalk in any circuit, but that is far inferior to a balanced *or* single-ended circuit which separates the grounds *within the amplifier.*  Connecting the grounds at the amp terminal is roughly equivalent to connecting the negative terminals of a power amp.    You could manage to do it with certain cheap, protective circuits and prevent catastrophe, but it would measure and sound lousy.
> 
> Now, of course the current and reactance of a pair of headphone transducer negative terminal are vastly smaller than with loudspeakers, so you can easily get away with that topology without the need for protective circuits.  But the channel crosstalk of a linked ground SE circuit compared to a balanced or an unlinked circuit is vastly higher.  Headphone amps of the first type are not high-fidelity instruments.


 

 In the case of balanced headphones cabling, there are three wires per channel, the ground connection leads still end up at the same chassis ground as a SE cabling with independent ground leads. In a balanced output the two signal leads are 180 Deg out of phase around the common ground. I see no cause for difference in SQ.
 Some folks seem to think that balanced headphones cabling prevents RFI, etc. I don't buy into this as the impedances are pretty low (output) and the lengths relatively short. This is not the same scenario as a high gain Mic input.


----------



## FLTWS

Anyone seen / have photos of the new Schiit? (Saga, Freya, Vidar)


----------



## RickB

fltws said:


> Anyone seen / have photos of the new Schiit? (Saga, Freya, Vidar)


 
 Here one pic of some of them:
  
 https://www.instagram.com/p/BLR7cEOBX55/


----------



## FLTWS

Very cool, thanks.
  
 I'm headphones only since retirement and downsizing, even had to settle for Bose 5.1 surround for my H/T, but I enjoy keeping up with Schiit-Co. Those amps look like the real deal.


----------



## magiccabbage

Hey does anyone Know if the Schiit Vidar is headphone compatible or is it speaker only?


----------



## Coolzo

magiccabbage said:


> Hey does anyone Know if the Schiit Vidar is headphone compatible or is it speaker only?




Definitely only intended for speakers, as the vidar is a traditional power amplifier. However if you really wanted to, you could use a Hifiman HE adapter, or another device known as the Robinette Box, to facilitate headphone use (just make sure you have a preamp as well! And don't use low impedance dynamics).


----------



## loki993

Ok so I have a pair of AKG K7xxs and I think I want to try tubes. I currently run a JDS labs element and its nice but too neutral for my taste. I would like something a bit more fun and musical sounding. I had a Fiio e10 before and that actually sounded more fun than the element but it didnt have enough power. 

So Im looking at maybe tubes....obviously Im looking at the vali 2 and the Lyr 2. Obviously the Lyr is far more expensive and has far more power than the Vali. How much of a difference will I notice between the 2? The thing is with the Lyr every time I tube swap if I choose to, and Im sure I will, I will need 2 tubes. That will get expensive quick. The power of the Lyr is really sexy but do I really need it all of the headphones Im using. 

Is there anything in the SS line of Schiit I could also look at too?


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> Ok so I have a pair of AKG K7xxs and I think I want to try tubes. I currently run a JDS labs element and its nice but too neutral for my taste. I would like something a bit more fun and musical sounding. I had a Fiio e10 before and that actually sounded more fun than the element but it didnt have enough power.
> 
> So Im looking at maybe tubes....obviously Im looking at the vali 2 and the Lyr 2. Obviously the Lyr is far more expensive and has far more power than the Vali. How much of a difference will I notice between the 2? The thing is with the Lyr every time I tube swap if I choose to, and Im sure I will, I will need 2 tubes. That will get expensive quick. The power of the Lyr is really sexy but do I really need it all of the headphones Im using.
> 
> Is there anything in the SS line of Schiit I could also look at too?


 

 I think, you need to think about what in the sound signature of your headphones that bothers you before taking any action. I wouldn't expect an Amp to make big changes for you. If it's FR related either try using some EQ or you might consider getting a pair of headphones that will scratch that itch the best. The Magni 2 (or Uber version) will most likely provide more power than you will need for all but a few headphones that are out there and is probably in your budget. It is low in distortion and doesn't affect SQ. IMO it's the headphones that make the big difference.


----------



## MWSVette

loki993 said:


> Ok so I have a pair of AKG K7xxs and I think I want to try tubes. I currently run a JDS labs element and its nice but too neutral for my taste. I would like something a bit more fun and musical sounding. I had a Fiio e10 before and that actually sounded more fun than the element but it didnt have enough power.
> 
> So Im looking at maybe tubes....obviously Im looking at the vali 2 and the Lyr 2. Obviously the Lyr is far more expensive and has far more power than the Vali. How much of a difference will I notice between the 2? The thing is with the Lyr every time I tube swap if I choose to, and Im sure I will, I will need 2 tubes. That will get expensive quick. The power of the Lyr is really sexy but do I really need it all of the headphones Im using.
> 
> Is there anything in the SS line of Schiit I could also look at too?


 
 The Vali 2 would be a good place to start if you are new to tube rolling.  Only one tube to roll, half the cost of rolling in the Lyr.
  
 As far as SS Schiit,  try the Jotunheim...


----------



## loki993

stand said:


> I think, you need to think about what in the sound signature of your headphones that bothers you before taking any action. I wouldn't expect an Amp to make big changes for you. If it's FR related either try using some EQ or you might consider getting a pair of headphones that will scratch that itch the best. The Magni 2 (or Uber version) will most likely provide more power than you will need for all but a few headphones that are out there and is probably in your budget. It is low in distortion and doesn't affect SQ. IMO it's the headphones that make the big difference.




Power isn't the issue I don't think and from most things Ive read the Magni just doesn't sound that good with the K7xxs. I'm not looking to completly change the sound signature...just maybe warm them up a little.


----------



## StanD

loki993 said:


> Power isn't the issue I don't think and from most things Ive read the Magni just doesn't sound that good with the K7xxs. I'm not looking to completly change the sound signature...just maybe warm them up a little.


 
 Power is in reference to your statement that the FiiO E10 didn't have enough to please you and was meant to reassure you the the Magni would deliver. I found the Magni being too bright as a myth. I purchased one for a second listening station and volume matched A/B compared it with a switch to other Amps and didn't find any tonal differences. IMO a flat FR is just that, flat. I believe one really needs to do a proper comparison where they switch between the Amps using the same music, within seconds. I've done this on many occasions and found the experience to be enlightening. Keep in mind what I said, "it's the headphones that make the big difference." I wouldn't expect Amp magic.


----------



## crazychile

loki993 said:


> Ok so I have a pair of AKG K7xxs and I think I want to try tubes. I currently run a JDS labs element and its nice but too neutral for my taste. I would like something a bit more fun and musical sounding. I had a Fiio e10 before and that actually sounded more fun than the element but it didnt have enough power.
> 
> So Im looking at maybe tubes....obviously Im looking at the vali 2 and the Lyr 2. Obviously the Lyr is far more expensive and has far more power than the Vali. How much of a difference will I notice between the 2? The thing is with the Lyr every time I tube swap if I choose to, and Im sure I will, I will need 2 tubes. That will get expensive quick. The power of the Lyr is really sexy but do I really need it all of the headphones Im using.
> 
> Is there anything in the SS line of Schiit I could also look at too?


 

 I had a pair of K702 with an original Vali. Sound was OK. Upgraded to a Lyr 2. Sound was still just OK, not much of a difference.
 Turns out that K702s didn't really do it for me so I sold 'em. But I heard a bigger difference by upgrading my DAC from Modi to Bifrost.


----------



## notfitforpublic

loki993 said:


> Ok so I have a pair of AKG K7xxs and I think I want to try tubes. I currently run a JDS labs element and its nice but too neutral for my taste. I would like something a bit more fun and musical sounding. I had a Fiio e10 before and that actually sounded more fun than the element but it didnt have enough power.
> 
> So Im looking at maybe tubes....obviously Im looking at the vali 2 and the Lyr 2. Obviously the Lyr is far more expensive and has far more power than the Vali. How much of a difference will I notice between the 2? The thing is with the Lyr every time I tube swap if I choose to, and Im sure I will, I will need 2 tubes. That will get expensive quick. The power of the Lyr is really sexy but do I really need it all of the headphones Im using.
> 
> Is there anything in the SS line of Schiit I could also look at too?


 

 I didn't much like the 7XX Vali 1 combo myself, and I think you'll find buying a tube amp and tube rolling to be more expensive than looking at new cans. The Element is a pretty solid amp from what I understand, StanD might be right, the headphones may not be the ones your looking for.
  
 But, if a new amp is the route you wanna go, I'd suggest asking or snooping around the 7XX thread for amp suggestions. You'll probably find more current owners and relevant opinions there.


----------



## TuRbii

Hey all, it's been a while since I've posted. Still rocking the Modi 2, Vali 2 combo. I've had them both know paired with some HD 650s for quite a few months now and I'm enjoying them more and more each day.
 I'm looking now at trying out some different tubes although I'm assuming they won't make TOO much of a difference. 
 They're not too expensive so I figured why not give em a shot.


----------



## Sam Lord

stand said:


> In the case of balanced headphones cabling, there are three wires per channel, the ground connection leads still end up at the same chassis ground as a SE cabling with independent ground leads. In a balanced output the two signal leads are 180 Deg out of phase around the common ground. I see no cause for difference in SQ.
> Some folks seem to think that balanced headphones cabling prevents RFI, etc. I don't buy into this as the impedances are pretty low (output) and the lengths relatively short. This is not the same scenario as a high gain Mic input.


 
  
 Hi Stan,
  
 Sorry, I had trouble re-finding this thread.  You just stated the main reason why *most* balanced circuits are vastly superior to single-ended headphone circuits.  In the balanced amps, or in single-ended power amplifiers, the crucial difference is that the ground is *not* in the audio circuit except at the source component.  The negative (or inverting) leads for each channel should never connect, but in typical cheap headphone circuits they do.  In a good amplifier, grounds exist only for shielding.  In all systems the source references ground in some way, but the secondaries of all decent amplifiers are galvanically isolated from earth ground.
  
 The single important fact is that a negative return wire which is shared between two channels induces distortion from each driver to the other.  You CAN make a great single-ended headphone amplifier IF you isolate the negative wires of each channel...but that appears to be a rare design choice.


----------



## StanD

sam lord said:


> Hi Stan,
> 
> Sorry, I had trouble re-finding this thread.  *You just stated the main reason why *most* balanced circuits are vastly superior to single-ended headphone circuits*.  In the balanced amps, or in single-ended power amplifiers, the crucial difference is that the ground is *not* in the audio circuit except at the source component.  The negative (or inverting) leads for each channel should never connect, but in typical cheap headphone circuits they do.  In a good amplifier, grounds exist only for shielding.  In all systems the source references ground in some way, but the secondaries of all decent amplifiers are galvanically isolated from earth ground.
> 
> The single important fact is that a negative return wire which is shared between two channels induces distortion from each driver to the other.  You CAN make a great single-ended headphone amplifier IF you isolate the negative wires of each channel...but that appears to be a rare design choice.


 
 I doubt that I stated that, please find my post. IMO the only thing a balanced Amp output has over SE is the potential for a 6 dBV increase in Voltage. I usually state that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, not a shared common lead.
 The real advantages for balanced circuits are in high gain inputs, particularly if the impedance is high. That has little to do with headphones.
 My closest previous post is at the below link,
http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/12135#post_12922279


----------



## Sam Lord

stand said:


> I doubt that I stated that, please find my post. IMO the only thing a balanced Amp output has over SE is the potential for a 6 dBV increase in Voltage. I usually state that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, not a shared common lead.
> The real advantages for balanced circuits are in high gain inputs, particularly if the impedance is high. That has little to do with headphones.
> My closest previous post is at the below link,
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/12135#post_12922279


 
  
 You didn't state it explicitly, but your description of the 3 wires/ch of balanced operation were my whole point: the inverting leads do not connect with ground.  You have repeatedly said that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, to which we all agree.  But when those leads connect at the amp output, as they do with any TRS jack, I maintain that you *don't* have an ideal circuit. 
  
 I understand why HP amp makers choose to connect negative leads to ground:  The impedance ratio of negative transducer terminal to ground is far greater than that for loudspeakers.  So the distortion caused by joining the negatives and ground is much less for headphones than loudspeakers.  But there is still a small current and voltage signal shared by the channels when their negative leads connect at the amp ground, causing distortion.


----------



## StanD

sam lord said:


> You didn't state it explicitly, but your description of the 3 wires/ch of balanced operation were my whole point: the inverting leads do not connect with ground.  You have repeatedly said that good SE headphones have separate ground leads, to which we all agree.  But when those leads connect at the amp output, as they do with any TRS jack, I maintain that you *don't* have an ideal circuit.
> 
> I understand why HP amp makers choose to connect negative leads to ground:  The impedance ratio of negative transducer terminal to ground is far greater than that for loudspeakers.  So the distortion caused by joining the negatives and ground is much less for headphones than loudspeakers.  But there is still a small current and voltage signal shared by the channels when their negative leads connect at the amp ground, causing distortion.


 
 I made no statement about balanced being better. You may have made an assumption based upon your beliefs in the TRS wiring, which I do not necessarily agree with.
 When the separate ground leads go to the TRS connector they should then go directly to chassis ground. It doesn't get any better than that. You do the math and tell me what resistance difference will cause distortion, crosstalk, etc. and how much in dB. What will the difference be at chassis ground??? You will find there is nothing to be concerned with and might just mislead some readers into unnecessary worries.


----------



## Sam Lord

stand said:


> I made no statement about balanced being better. You may have made an assumption based upon your beliefs in the TRS wiring, which I do not necessarily agree with.
> When the separate ground leads go to the TRS connector they should then go directly to chassis ground. It doesn't get any better than that. You do the math and tell me what resistance difference will cause distortion, crosstalk, etc. and how much in dB. What will the difference be at chassis ground??? You will find there is nothing to be concerned with and might just mislead some readers into unnecessary worries.


 
  
 I'm sorry Stan, I twisted your words.  I didn't intend to be snide, though I clearly was: I was taking part of your statement about what a balanced signal is, then expanded on it.  Agreed, you didn't say balanced was better, and you gave good reasons for your case.  So I'll just finish my opinion and leave it for you to judge.
  
 Any two-channel power amplifier has two amp circuits whose original reference is earth ground.  The question we are disagreeing about is whether you gain or lose significant sound quality by tying the negative terminals to the grounded chassis.  For every loudspeaker power amp I can think of, the answer is clear: the negative leads are best not connected to chassis ground.  Why?  The chassis ground does not have a low enough impedance at audio frequencies compared to an active circuit.
  
 But headphones are certainly less reactive and need much smaller currents than loudspeakers.  So the chassis does have low enough impedance to drive most headphones with vanishingly little distortion.  But a number of beastly 32 Ohm headphones that are very popular now act more like loudspeakers.  And in that case, distortion increases both from the reactance of one transducer acting on the other through the tied negative leads (even though grounded), as well as from the lower damping factor of the chassis ground.  So I was really overstating the benefit of balanced, or at least floating outputs, for the great majority of phones.  I don't see a big benefit for fully balanced circuits even for driving the beasts.
  
 Once again, I apologize for my words.


----------



## StanD

sam lord said:


> I'm sorry Stan, I twisted your words.  I didn't intend to be snide, though I clearly was: I was taking part of your statement about what a balanced signal is, then expanded on it.  Agreed, you didn't say balanced was better, and you gave good reasons for your case.  So I'll just finish my opinion and leave it for you to judge.
> 
> Any two-channel power amplifier has two amp circuits whose original reference is earth ground.  The question we are disagreeing about is whether you gain or lose significant sound quality by tying the negative terminals to the grounded chassis.  For every loudspeaker power amp I can think of, the answer is clear: the negative leads are best not connected to chassis ground.  Why?  The chassis ground does not have a low enough impedance at audio frequencies compared to an active circuit.
> 
> ...


 
 No problem.
 If one looks at power hungry headphones, they'd be Planars and they are resistive no reactance to be concerned with. I think I'm going to plug in my HE-560's into an Asgard 2 and listen for a little while, I could use some music time.


----------



## ksathug

i have a question 
  
 my friend has a Valhalla 2 and he is looking for a Dac
  
  
 his headphones are 
 Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM
 AKG K702
  
  
 what Dac you guys recommend  money is not the issue 
  
 pleas help us decide


----------



## r2muchstuff

ksathug said:


> i have a question
> 
> my friend has a Valhalla 2 and he is looking for a Dac
> 
> ...


 

 A Schiit Multi Bit.
  
 Bifrost MB matches the form factor of the Valhalla 2, Modi MB is less $ but not upgradable, Gungnir MB adds balanced for later amp upgrades and Yggdrasil is TOL.
  
 I currently run a Valhalla 2 from a Gungnir MB, I was very happy with the Bifrost MB.  I did not get the Gungnir MB just for the Valhalla I also got a Mjolnir 2.  So now I run both from it.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## MWSVette

ksathug said:


> i have a question
> 
> my friend has a Valhalla 2 and he is looking for a Dac
> 
> ...


 
  
  


r2muchstuff said:


> A Schiit Multi Bit.
> 
> Bifrost MB matches the form factor of the Valhalla 2, Modi MB is less $ but not upgradable, Gungnir MB adds balanced for later amp upgrades and Yggdrasil is TOL.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 +1 
  
 Any of the Schiit Multibit options.
  
 I wish money was not an issue for me too...


----------



## Textfeud

Guys need your expertise. I bought a Schiit Bimby again. This is my third Bifrost. Bought it second hand and it was recenlty upgraded to Multibit. I'm not sure if this is USB Gen 2 or 1. Normally my Macbook recognized the Bifrost DAC as something like Schiit USB Gen 2. Now it says Speaker-Schiit USB Audo Device? Do I have USB gen 1?


----------



## sheldaze

textfeud said:


> Guys need your expertise. I bought a Schiit Bimby again. This is my third Bifrost. Bought it second hand and it was recenlty upgraded to Multibit. I'm not sure if this is USB Gen 2 or 1. Normally my Macbook recognized the Bifrost DAC as something like Schiit USB Gen 2. Now it says Speaker-Schiit USB Audo Device? Do I have USB gen 1?


 
 That is correct! You have USB Gen 2.
 You can also tell by launching the utility program Audio MIDI Setup to verify all the rates are available. There were some between 44.1 and 192, which were missing in USB Gen 1.


----------



## Textfeud

sheldaze said:


> That is correct! You have USB Gen 2.
> You can also tell by launching the utility program Audio MIDI Setup to verify all the rates are available. There were some between 44.1 and 192, which were missing in USB Gen 1.


 
 Thanks man . That's a relieve. Was worried since this is a upgraded Bifrost and my other Bifrost are recognized with a different name on the Macbook haha. Glad it's USB gen 2.


----------



## ksathug

r2muchstuff said:


> A Schiit Multi Bit.
> 
> Bifrost MB matches the form factor of the Valhalla 2, Modi MB is less $ but not upgradable, Gungnir MB adds balanced for later amp upgrades and Yggdrasil is TOL.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mwsvette said:


> +1
> 
> Any of the Schiit Multibit options.
> 
> I wish money was not an issue for me too...


 
  
 wats the different between the Multibit and the regler one ?


----------



## theveterans

ksathug said:


> wats the different between the Multibit and the regler one ?


 
  
 They differ in converting digital signals into analog signals. Schiit Multibit generally sounds better than their regular ones for most people, including me.


----------



## Pahani

theveterans said:


> They differ in converting digital signals into analog signals. Schiit Multibit generally sounds better than their regular ones for most people, including me.


 
 +1
  
 I upgraded from Modi 2 Uber to Modi Multibit. And at least to my ears, it was worth it.


----------



## Rmaza

Schitt owner here, Valhalla 2 on the way, have not heard it or seen it yet but should be here in another week. Its used and comes with an extra pair of tubes.  Ill have to wait until mid december for my Senn HD6XX to arrive.  Until then I will have to use my Beyer DT 770 80Ω, VModa M100, AKG K550, Vsonic GR07, Shure SE215s.  Source will come from my Ibasso DX80.  Anyone have experience with any of these paired with Valhalla 2?


----------



## jchandler3

rmaza said:


> Schitt owner here, Valhalla 2 on the way, have not heard it or seen it yet but should be here in another week. Its used and comes with an extra pair of tubes.  Ill have to wait until mid december for my Senn HD6XX to arrive.  Until then I will have to use my Beyer DT 770 80Ω, VModa M100, AKG K550, Vsonic GR07, Shure SE215s.  Source will come from my Ibasso DX80.  Anyone have experience with any of these paired with Valhalla 2?




You should be very pleased. Many people recommend the Valhalla for the HD650s (so, HD6xx).


----------



## TAsme

Hello schiit owners!

I am a vinyl record lover and would love to put some schiit products between my rega rp8 and my sennheiser hd800.

What would you recommend me?

Best regards


----------



## jchandler3

tasme said:


> Hello schiit owners!
> 
> I am a vinyl record lover and would love to put some schiit products between my rega rp8 and my sennheiser hd800.
> 
> ...




I don't own the HD800 so I don't know the synergy exactly, but I own and love the Jotunheim. You could buy that with phono stage built in and have a slick balanced (or not) setup. 

Alternately there's the Mani phono amp, and that's basically the extent of your options with Schiit.


----------



## TAsme

What would you either of those combine with?

I dont wanna spend more than 1k dollar in total


----------



## jchandler3

tasme said:


> What would you either of those combine with?
> 
> I dont wanna spend more than 1k dollar in total




Well the Jot with phono is $500 and you'd be set. Or you could get the Mani and have $900+ to find an amp. 

Neither of those suggestions include a DAC, by the way, but you didn't ask for that at all. You could always get Jot with phono plus Mimby and you'd have one kick butt setup.


----------



## john777

tasme said:


> Hello schiit owners!
> 
> I am a vinyl record lover and would love to put some schiit products between my rega rp8 and my sennheiser hd800.
> 
> ...




Jotunheim with inboard phono.


----------



## TAsme

Is that all i would need? Wouldnt i need at least a dac? Sorry for the dumb questions but im relatively new to this


----------



## Pahani

jchandler3 said:


> Well the Jot with phono is $500 and you'd be set. Or you could get the Mani and have $900+ to find an amp.
> 
> Neither of those suggestions include a DAC, by the way, but you didn't ask for that at all. You could always get Jot with phono plus Mimby and you'd have one kick butt setup.


 
  
  


tasme said:


> Is that all i would need? Wouldnt i need at least a dac? Sorry for the dumb questions but im relatively new to this


 
 I know precisely zero about vinyl listening, so my assumptions could be wrong. But DAC stands for "Digital to Analog Converter". I would think your turntable outputs an Analog signal, not a Digital one. So, even though I admittedly don't really know what I'm talking about in this instance, I think the Jotunheim with the Phono module would be all you need just for that.
  
 That would only use half your proposed budget  You could then add the Modi Multibit ("Mimby" referenced above) for an additional $250 as an excellent DAC to allow you to also play music from an alternate source, such as a computer. I can only speak for the Mimby, but both the Mimby and the Jot have received deserved accolades since release AFAIK.
  
 Somebody please correct me if my assumptions are wrong here 
  
 *edit* In other words, I just repeated everything jchandler3 said, only in a longer-winded manner


----------



## TAsme

ahh I c. Guys thanks a lot for the help. I know it's the Schiit owner Topic, but I couldn't find a more suiting one. And beside that, in some weeks I can count myself in here 
  
 Beside my Vinyl record Player I could also connect my Onkyo DP-X1 Mp3 Player if I buy a DAC, did I get that right now? If so, how would I connect it with the DAC?


----------



## StanD

tasme said:


> ahh I c. Guys thanks a lot for the help. I know it's the Schiit owner Topic, but I couldn't find a more suiting one. And beside that, in some weeks I can count myself in here
> 
> Beside my Vinyl record Player I could also connect my Onkyo DP-X1 Mp3 Player if I buy a DAC, did I get that right now? If so, how would I connect it with the DAC?


 

 The DP-X1 is a DAP with dual Sabre DAC chips built in. It an even do balanced out. You can connect the DX-P1 line output to an Amp and use its internal DAC.


----------



## jchandler3

tasme said:


> ahh I c. Guys thanks a lot for the help. I know it's the Schiit owner Topic, but I couldn't find a more suiting one. And beside that, in some weeks I can count myself in here
> 
> Beside my Vinyl record Player I could also connect my Onkyo DP-X1 Mp3 Player if I buy a DAC, did I get that right now? If so, how would I connect it with the DAC?


 

 Not that it's the only thing worth considering, but I'll recommend the Jotunheim yet again. As @StanD mentions above, the DP-X1 has its own DAC. You can run your Rega into the phono input, the Onkyo into the unbalanced or balanced input, and still have another input available for a separate DAC at some point.


----------



## TAsme

this lil guy is a true Allrounder! placing my order tonight.
  
 I really appreciate your help guys, you are great!


----------



## john777

tasme said:


> this lil guy is a true Allrounder! placing my order tonight.
> 
> I really appreciate your help guys, you are great!




We got there! Enjoy your music!


----------



## Pahani

tasme said:


> this lil guy is a true Allrounder! placing my order tonight.
> 
> I really appreciate your help guys, you are great!


 
 Don't forget to post your thoughts after about a week with your new Jot


----------



## TAsme

Ah it wont be a jot! The phono module is only for mm systems, not mc.

So it will be a mani + amp, but i dont know which so far  which one would you guys grab?


----------



## mwhals

tasme said:


> Ah it wont be a jot! The phono module is only for mm systems, not mc.
> 
> So it will be a mani + amp, but i dont know which so far  which one would you guys grab?




You can still get the Jotunheim without a dac or phono card for $400 and it would be a kickbutt amp.


----------



## franzdom

I have Mani & Jot, a winning combination!


----------



## Pahani

mwhals said:


> You can still get the Jotunheim without a dac or phono card for $400 and it would be a kickbutt amp.


 
 Yeah, I couldn't resist the temptation any longer and ordered a base Jot with no module yesterday, to pair with my Mimby.
  
 Not expecting it to be much of an upgrade over my Magni 2U, but the ability to use Balanced cables in the future is what sealed the deal for me


----------



## fidelcastroil

I've been trying to find a pair of headphone that is a good combo with the valhalla 2, I've been looking at the lcd-2 for a long time however I've read some conflicting information on wether or not they pair well with the lcd-2s

Anyone think they can shine some light on my dilemma and if they don't pair well what's a good choose in that price range


----------



## StanD

fidelcastroil said:


> I've been trying to find a pair of headphone that is a good combo with the valhalla 2, I've been looking at the lcd-2 for a long time however I've read some conflicting information on wether or not they pair well with the lcd-2s
> 
> Anyone think they can shine some light on my dilemma and if they don't pair well what's a good choose in that price range


 

 I don't have the tme to do the math, but I can guess that the Valhalla 2 is not at its best driving a low impedance headphone that is not sensitive. For example, it does much better with a 300 Ohm Sennheiser.e.g., HD600, HD650 and so on.
 A Magni 2 Uber seems to be a better choice in that price range.


----------



## SP Wild

My R1 LCD2s will easily load my Valhalla 2 to clipping, well before the headphones do what it does best - simulate a live performance on stage.


----------



## r2muchstuff

fidelcastroil said:


> I've been trying to find a pair of headphone that is a good combo with the valhalla 2, ...


 
 Beyerdynamic T1 v2.
  
 JMTC,
 r2
  
 Edit: or Beyerdynamic T90 / DT1770, Grado 325e, Sennheiser 650, Oppo PM3
  
 Then tube match for synergy


----------



## r2muchstuff

Deleted - double post


----------



## r2muchstuff

r2muchstuff said:


> Beyerdynamic T1 v2.
> 
> JMTC,
> r2
> ...


 
 Just listened to The Kinks - "A Gallon of Gas" 
  
 Apple Lossless > USB > Gungnir Multi Bit > RCA > Valhalla 2 with 6N6P Novosibirsk - Gold Grid & Pin - NOS 1978 & 6N1P (6H1N) Voskhod Rocket - NOS 1978 > Grado 325e
  
 Raw in your face wonderful, not for all music, in this case just perfect.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## LTSFBH

I have a Valhalla, Lyr 2 and until a few weeks ago, a Lyr 1. I listen exclusively with Grado PS500e and 325e. I can positively state that all the amps/cans listed match extremely well, or else I would be looking to replace one or the other. If you are looking for detail, clarity, wide soundstage and distinct, hard hitting bass, then the Grados are something to consider and worth trying if possible. When I hear the statement that such and such an amp doesn't play well with low impedance headphones, it means pretty much the same to me as the math that "proves" that bumble bees can't fly. Shouldn't work, but it does! You might not particularly like how it sounds, but that doesn't mean they are poorly matched from a technical standpoint, just a personal one. Not to mention that the Val 2 has a low impedance option, which negates any argument that there would be a mismatch. I spoke with Schiit directly and as far as the Lyr 2 goes, there is no problem using it with sub 20 ohm IEMs. That's MHO and of course YMMV!


----------



## mwhals

I am trying to think of a kick butt DAC and Amp for ZMF Omni, Atticus and Eikon headphones. Not worried on budget as long as it is below $1600.


----------



## davidflas

Its a little bit above your budget, but the combination of a Gungnir Multibit and a Lyr2 would kick some serious butt!


----------



## mwhals

davidflas said:


> Its a little bit above your budget, but the combination of a Gungnir Multibit and a Lyr2 would kick some serious butt!




What about the Jotunheim vs Lyr 2? I have not seen many comparisons of those two after 193 pages of the Jotunheim thread started by Jude.


----------



## trs451797

I have the Schiit Valhalla 2 and it's super great. Was thinking which headphone would be most compatible with the amp? maybe the sennheiser hd650? I'm currently pairing it with the beyerdynamic dt990 premium with a dragonfly red as well.


----------



## trs451797

fidelcastroil said:


> I've been trying to find a pair of headphone that is a good combo with the valhalla 2, I've been looking at the lcd-2 for a long time however I've read some conflicting information on wether or not they pair well with the lcd-2s
> 
> Anyone think they can shine some light on my dilemma and if they don't pair well what's a good choose in that price range


 
 I've heard its good with the Sennheiser HD650


----------



## Billheiser

trs451797 said:


> I've heard its good with the Sennheiser HD650


 
 and the HD600


----------



## trs451797

billheiser said:


> and the HD600



Any more recommendations? :0 i heard elear is super godly with valhalla 2


----------



## mwhals

I have heard the Gumby is bright and the Bimby is warm. Can anyone that has heard both confirm or refute? I would think they should be pretty close.


----------



## bigro

tasme said:


> Hello schiit owners!
> 
> I am a vinyl record lover and would love to put some schiit products between my rega rp8 and my sennheiser hd800.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't have HD800's But I use a Mani going into a Valhalla 2. Depending on what Cartridge you are using, The mani is more flexible and has gotten very good reviews. If you are running a MC cartridge a mani will work but the Phono Stage in the Jotunheim will not. It is spec'd for MM only. I Can't speak for the Jot as I have not heard one but The Valhalla 2 drives High Impedance cans well and I really enjoy the sound of it with Vinyl.


----------



## ChinoSon

looking forward to joining the family on Christmas. will have the HD650 running of the bifrost multi and Valhalla 2. can't wait to get some time with this setup!!


----------



## ScottFree

chinoson said:


> looking forward to joining the family on Christmas. will have the HD650 running of the bifrost multi and Valhalla 2. can't wait to get some time with this setup!!




I'm already bored of Christmas. This mainly because I seem to be cursed to the fact that when I walk into anywhere that is playing Festive tunes, I somehow have timed it perfectly so that the song I immediately or next hear is Slade's 'Merry Xmas Everybody' which in the UK is pretty much the standard Christmas theme.


----------



## ChinoSon

Lol sorry man!! Just ordered the bifrost multi today on a brighter note lol


----------



## pelli

scottfree said:


> I'm already bored of Christmas. This mainly because I seem to be cursed to the fact that when I walk into anywhere that is playing Festive tunes, I somehow have timed it perfectly so that the song I immediately or next hear is Slade's 'Merry Xmas Everybody' which in the UK is pretty much the standard Christmas theme.


 

 In the USA it is one of three songs: "A Wonderful Christmas Time" by Wings, Mariah Cary's "All I Want for Christmas is You" or every R&B Singer Ever's version of "This Christmas"  haha


----------



## mwhals

pelli said:


> In the USA it is one of three songs: "A Wonderful Christmas Time" by Wings, Mariah Cary's "All I Want for Christmas is You" or every R&B Singer Ever's version of "This Christmas"  haha




I hear those and "Hey Santa" by the Wilson sisters along with "Baby it's Cold Outside" by various couples.


----------



## pelli

So I have been absent from Head-Fi for a while... Seems like Multibit is the real deal huh? Anyone send in a Gungir for upgrade or do a side-by-side comparison and have thoughts on the difference?


----------



## mwhals

pelli said:


> So I have been absent from Head-Fi for a while... Seems like Multibit is the real deal huh? Anyone send in a Gungir for upgrade or do a side-by-side comparison and have thoughts on the difference?




I have read that more people seem to like Multibit over Delta Sigma.


----------



## Iceman2733

Welp I am joining the Schiit family with a few little amps, I already owned the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber and just ordered a Valhalla 2 last night.  I owned a set of HD650 cans I can not wait to hear the valhalla with all the talk about how well it pairs with the HD650 cans. 
  
 I asked in another thread but for people using a single DAC how do you guys recommend to split the output to different amps?


----------



## pelli

iceman2733 said:


> Welp I am joining the Schiit family with a few little amps, I already owned the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber and just ordered a Valhalla 2 last night.  I owned a set of HD650 cans I can not wait to hear the valhalla with all the talk about how well it pairs with the HD650 cans.
> 
> I asked in another thread but for people using a single DAC how do you guys recommend to split the output to different amps?


 

 You can buy a switch, often called a line router.  
  
 Mapletree makes a very nice one that you would never feel the need to upgrade: https://hollowstate.netfirms.com/otherproducts.htm
  
 But I am sure you would do just fine with a mono price or something similar for much less money: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TKUAJGQ?psc=1


----------



## notfitforpublic

iceman2733 said:


> Welp I am joining the Schiit family with a few little amps, I already owned the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber and just ordered a Valhalla 2 last night.  I owned a set of HD650 cans I can not wait to hear the valhalla with all the talk about how well it pairs with the HD650 cans.
> 
> I asked in another thread but for people using a single DAC how do you guys recommend to split the output to different amps?


 

 I've had no issues with just a couple of splitters from ViaBlue at my Bifrost output.


----------



## StanD

iceman2733 said:


> Welp I am joining the Schiit family with a few little amps, I already owned the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber and just ordered a Valhalla 2 last night.  I owned a set of HD650 cans I can not wait to hear the valhalla with all the talk about how well it pairs with the HD650 cans.
> 
> I asked in another thread but for people using a single DAC how do you guys recommend to split the output to different amps?


 

 You can simply use a cheap Monoprice Y cable for each channel. The DAC has a  low output impedance so putting two high impedance inputs in parallel will not cause any problems.
 Something like the below will work just fine. Don't mind the talk about subwoofers. You can get any decent Y cable.
https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-feet-RCA-Male-Subwoofer/dp/B00DI89D3Q


----------



## mwhals

What are the chances the Jotunheim technology goes into a Mjolnir 3?

Everyone tells me to get the Jotunheim over the Mjolnir 2, so there is thought that the Mjolnir needs improved.


----------



## MWSVette

mwhals said:


> What are the chances the Jotunheim technology goes into a Mjolnir 3?
> 
> Everyone tells me to get the Jotunheim over the Mjolnir 2, so there is thought that the Mjolnir needs improved.


 
 Jot is a great value and should be highly regarded.
  
 These are reasons to get a Jot, if you do not want tubes or the higher power of the MJ2 or need a small foot print amp/Dac combo or need to spend $400.00 less.
  
 All are great reasons to choose the Jot over the MJ2 that have nothing Mjolnir needing any "improvement".  The MJ2 is a great amp in its own right...


----------



## reddog

mwsvette said:


> Jot is a great value and should be highly regarded.
> 
> These are reasons to get a Jot, if you do not want tubes or the higher power of the MJ2 or need a small foot print amp/Dac combo or need to spend $400.00 less.
> 
> All are great reasons to choose the Jot over the MJ2 that have nothing Mjolnir needing any "improvement".  It is a great amp in its own right...



The MJ2 is a fantastic amp, that compares to some more expensive hybrid tube amps. I listen to my MJ2 ( gold lions) everyday. I will switch out the Gold Lions for my Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes, when I want to get lost in the music. I especially enjoy listening to Frank Zappa and Thelonious Monk, through the MJ2 the slight edginess found in the MJ2's mids allows rock and jazz to have more forlorn soul and grit to the music. I have used the MJ2 to drive all of my cans. Although I do prefer using the MJ2's XLR balanced out to the S.E 1/4 out.


----------



## MWSVette

reddog said:


> The MJ2 is a fantastic amp, that compares to some more expensive hybrid tube amps. I listen to my MJ2 ( gold lions) everyday. I will switch out the Gold Lions for my Telefunken E88CC Platinum tubes, when I want to get lost in the music. I especially enjoy listening to Frank Zappa and Thelonious Monk, through the MJ2 the slight edginess found in the MJ2's mids allows rock and jazz to have more forlorn soul and grit to the music. I have used the MJ2 to drive all of my cans. Although I do prefer using the MJ2's XLR balanced out to the S.E 1/4 out.


 
  
 I would sell my Lyr for a MJ2 in a minute except for my setup requires the foot print of the Lyr.


----------



## Tompo88

I'm expecting my Jotunheim and HD650's tomorrow. Can't wait to test it out compared to what I've been using (Asus xonar essence stx and Sennheiser pc360 headset).


----------



## cutter807AA

Please update us


----------



## jchandler3

tompo88 said:


> I'm expecting my Jotunheim and HD650's tomorrow. Can't wait to test it out compared to what I've been using (Asus xonar essence stx and Sennheiser pc360 headset).


 

 I have that same combo. It's magical (to me).


----------



## franzdom

I must try the HD650 some day, apparently it punches above it's weight class!


----------



## Iceman2733

Got my Valhalla 2 amp today and everything setup. I set everything up and let be amp warm up for about 5 mins before even plugging my headset in. 

Problem is for me to get anywhere near where I say is decent amount of sound output I am at near 3/4 volume knob with the amp on high gain. Everything on the PC is setup correctly and volume on it is 100%. I thought this thing would have a lot more output. DAC is a modi 2 Uber. Just wanted to see if this is normal or if I am overlooking something on the amp. Before someone says my ears are damaged they are not I have great hearing I am tested yearly at my job as a requirement. 

thanks everyone 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## darkninja67

Hey guys,
  
 Looking at a DAC/amp set up for the cans in my sig.
  
 Thinking either the Jot with DAC or going Magni Uber paired with a Modi Multibit.
  
 Do think the balanced output on the Jot really appeals to me right now but the power it delivers seems nice.
  
 Any advice on which way to go.
  
 TIA


----------



## mwhals

darkninja67 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Looking at a DAC/amp set up for the cans in my sig.
> 
> ...




I would get the Jot without the DAC card and the Modi Multibit. That is what seems to be recommended a lot.


----------



## D Smith

iceman2733 said:


> Got my Valhalla 2 amp today and everything setup. I set everything up and let be amp warm up for about 5 mins before even plugging my headset in.
> 
> Problem is for me to get anywhere near where I say is decent amount of sound output I am at near 3/4 volume knob with the amp on high gain. Everything on the PC is setup correctly and volume on it is 100%. I thought this thing would have a lot more output. DAC is a modi 2 Uber. Just wanted to see if this is normal or if I am overlooking something on the amp. Before someone says my ears are damaged they are not I have great hearing I am tested yearly at my job as a requirement.
> 
> ...


 

 I have a DT880 with my Valhalla. I have it on low gain and the volume control is usually between 10 or 11 o'clock.  Any more would be painfully loud for my ears. It's fed by an original Modi. The Beyers are 250 ohms impedance.


----------



## bigro

iceman2733 said:


> Got my Valhalla 2 amp today and everything setup. I set everything up and let be amp warm up for about 5 mins before even plugging my headset in.
> 
> Problem is for me to get anywhere near where I say is decent amount of sound output I am at near 3/4 volume knob with the amp on high gain. Everything on the PC is setup correctly and volume on it is 100%. I thought this thing would have a lot more output. DAC is a modi 2 Uber. Just wanted to see if this is normal or if I am overlooking something on the amp. Before someone says my ears are damaged they are not I have great hearing I am tested yearly at my job as a requirement.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It may be something to do with the Modi 2 Uber being 1.5Vrms at teh outputs. I used the HD650 with My Bimby (2 Volts at the output )and Valhalla2  Combo and I had to get it passed half for a loud but not deafening level. I get it up to the 1/2 - 3/4 range with Bayer DT990 600 Ohms. I do not see this as a problem however. I have had the Valhalla 2 For some time primarily as a Preamp fro my 2 channel rig. A Freya is Ordered to replace it.but they will be driving those beyers.


----------



## Pahani

bigro said:


> It may be something to do with the Modi 2 Uber being 1.5Vrms at teh outputs. I used the HD650 with My Bimby (2 Volts at the output )and Valhalla2  Combo and I had to get it passed half for a loud but not deafening level. I get it up to the 1/2 - 3/4 range with Bayer DT990 600 Ohms. I do not see this as a problem however. I have had the Valhalla 2 For some time primarily as a Preamp fro my 2 channel rig. A Freya is Ordered to replace it.but they will be driving those beyers.


 
 With Mimby and Magni 2 Uber (or Jot), my normal listening level with HD600 and HD6XX is around 40% on Low gain. Together with the T50RPMk3, they're the hardest-to-drive headphones I own.
  
 Modi 2 and Modi Multibit should have plenty of juice, I don't think that's his problem.


----------



## Billheiser

iceman2733 said:


> Got my Valhalla 2 amp today and everything setup. I set everything up and let be amp warm up for about 5 mins before even plugging my headset in.
> Problem is for me to get anywhere near where I say is decent amount of sound output I am at near 3/4 volume knob with the amp on high gain..



You should have plenty of volume, enough to deafen those good ears. Check all your volume settings once more.


----------



## fidelcastroil

does anyone have experience using the valhalla 2 for buffering?
 Ive been thinking of picking up a jor for a balanced amp but I hear they lack color so I was thinking I could remedy the situation with the valhalla 2 I already have


----------



## mwhals

I am looking for an opinion here to control volume of powered monitors as well as connecting them to a dac.

A Bifrost only has one output. I need two - one to powered monitors and one to a headphone amp. Here are my options:

1. Use an RCA splitter run to a volume attenuator like a Schiit Sys to monitors, but this may affect sound.

2. Get a second less expensive dac for the monitors and run it to a passive volume attenuator like a Schiit Sys.

3. Get a Schiit Saga for Bifrost input and outputs to both headphone amp and monitors.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I'd opt for number three myself given the flexibility it would give you now/later, but if budget is a factor the effect a sys would have on the sound should be negligible.
  
 Honestly, unless I'm missing something a saga in passive mode is pretty much the same thing as a sys.


----------



## mwhals

The Saga is likely the best answer. The run from it to the sub may be over 6 feet, so I may need active over passive. The monitors come from the sub, so the RCA run must go off the desk to the sub.

Another option is get a Gumby instead of a Mimby to pair with Jotunheim as I can swing that too.


----------



## SeaWo|f

Yea its quite a bump from a base bifrost and doesn't solve the volume control and potentially power issue.


----------



## franzdom

Use a headphone amp as a preamp for the powered monitors, that is what I am doing. I am running all in balanced so I ditched the SYS from the line. Now if I want the monitors on I have to turn on the headphone amp, I am ok with that arrangement.


----------



## theveterans

mwhals said:


> I am looking for an opinion here to control volume of powered monitors as well as connecting them to a dac.
> 
> A Bifrost only has one output. I need two - one to powered monitors and one to a headphone amp. Here are my options:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Option 4, get Jotunheim and use preouts for the monitors and the headphone out of headphones


----------



## mwhals

I prefer to not need the headphone amp peamp outputs to use the monitors. I am reserving the preouts on the amp for an OTL amp.

It was the Bifrost MB I was getting. I would still use a sys from the Gumby, just like I would from a bimby.


----------



## mwhals

If I get a Gumby, is it worth getting a Mjolnir 2 over the Jotunheim?


----------



## cratz2

I have a Schiity headphone amp... a Magni 2.
  
 With most of my headphones, it's not a huge improvement as they are easy to drive but for my Q701s and the K240s, I'd say it's a very worthwhile upgrade.


----------



## franzdom

mwhals said:


> If I get a Gumby, is it worth getting a Mjolnir 2 over the Jotunheim?


 
  
 No, I love the Jot!


----------



## CyanEide

franzdom said:


> No, I love the Jot!


 I'm considering upgrading my Magni/Modi combo to the Jot. Is it worth the $400 for the step up?


----------



## franzdom

Only you can decide that. I need balanced and that is where Jot excels, the Asgard may be perfect for you. I have not had the little guys so I really can't compare them, someone else will have to chime in. I am fairly sure they will say yes however.


----------



## Hofy

New Vali 2 owner here.  Time to void the warranty.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Does anyone know what size the LED is and where to order replacements in a different color?  The blinding white light is really bugging me. I would like to replace it with a red or amber LED and make it dimmer.  
  
 So far I have already upgraded the volume knob.


----------



## Mr Rick

hofy said:


> New Vali 2 owner here.  Time to void the warranty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Clear modeling paints come in a variety of colors.


----------



## SeaWo|f

you could take some nail polish, tape off around the light and brush a bit onto it. Less light will come through and in the cooler you chose.


----------



## Hofy

It seems I am fresh out of model paint and nail polish.  I would rather just drop in a new LED.


----------



## bigro

If you insist on Voiding the warranty why not open it up now. Just make sure you get the right voltage and power specs otherwise you will have a Nice Looking paper weight.


----------



## madwolfa

hofy said:


> Does anyone know what size the LED is and where to order replacements in a different color?  The blinding white light is really bugging me. I would like to replace it with a red or amber LED and make it dimmer.


 
  
 Keep your warranty intact.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Original-Strength-Electronics-Appliances/dp/B00CLVEQCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483550346&sr=8-1&keywords=led+dim+sticker


----------



## Hofy

bigro said:


> If you insist on Voiding the warranty why not open it up now. Just make sure you get the right voltage and power specs otherwise you will have a Nice Looking paper weight.


 
 Already done.  need to find a source for these odd looking LEDs.


----------



## Hofy

madwolfa said:


> Keep your warranty intact.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Original-Strength-Electronics-Appliances/dp/B00CLVEQCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483550346&sr=8-1&keywords=led+dim+sticker


 
 I have had these before.  They look like crap, might as well use some old electrical tape.


----------



## MWSVette

madwolfa said:


> Keep your warranty intact.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Original-Strength-Electronics-Appliances/dp/B00CLVEQCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483550346&sr=8-1&keywords=led+dim+sticker


 
 I second these in silver.  Not a fan of the dark ones.  The silver are a pretty close match to the Schiit case...
  
 https://www.amazon.com/LightDims-Silver-Electronics-Appliances-Packaging/dp/B009WT7PYO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483613962&sr=8-1&keywords=led+dim++silver


----------



## MrFranc

I wonder if a Shrpie Fine Point Permanent Marker will do?


----------



## Hofy

mrfranc said:


> I wonder if a Shrpie Fine Point Permanent Marker will do?




Now there is an idea. I do have several Sharpies in a number of colors. Pull the cover off and have at it.


----------



## Magnaryder

Hi, my name is Ray and I have just acquired a new to me first gen Lyr. Can't wait to start listening.
  
 ray 
  
 looking at HiFiMan and Audeze cans


----------



## darkninja67

hey thread,
  
 any reason not to go with a Magni 2 Uber/Modi Multibit stack to power the headphones listed in my sig?


----------



## john777

hofy said:


> New Vali 2 owner here.  Time to void the warranty.
> 
> Does anyone know what size the LED is and where to order replacements in a different color?  The blinding white light is really bugging me. I would like to replace it with a red or amber LED and make it dimmer.




I put a couple of small round coloured self-adhesive labels over the LED, as I found it too bright. I chose blue to match my other equipment. Will easily remove when I decide to sell.


----------



## Pahani

darkninja67 said:


> hey thread,
> 
> any reason not to go with a Magni 2 Uber/Modi Multibit stack to power the headphones listed in my sig?


 
 I used that combo until I stepped up to a Jotunheim (no DAC module) a few weeks ago. My normal listening volume with my HARDEST to drive headphones was about 40% on Low gain. With X2 and X00 (should be roughly equivalent to the Denons) my normal listening volume is around 25% on Low gain.
  
 Pleeeeeeeeeenty of power for pretty much anything you can hook up to the Magni 2U, IMO. I stepped up to Jot for future aspirations of using the Balanced output  The 1/4" output has exactly the same specs as Magni 2U, I believe.


----------



## franzdom

Finally took a picture of some of the schiit in my sanctuary. 
  
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/37929790@N03/31307335384/in/dateposted-public/


----------



## ChinoSon

Looking good. Here's a shot of my bimby and valhalla2 setup.
Here's a shot of the battlestation. Ignore the non walls basement isn't finished yet


----------



## mwhals

franzdom said:


> Finally took a picture of some of the schiit in my sanctuary.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/37929790@N03/31307335384/in/dateposted-public/




I wish I could leave my headphones out. If I did, the cables would be destroyed by one or two of our four cats.


----------



## Matro5

So, I know the Bifrost MB is a tough sell at the moment with Modi MB out there, but as I mentioned a few posts back, I picked the Bimby in part because it would look better in my system, and I have to say, she looks great right out of the box.


----------



## theveterans

matro5 said:


> So, I know the Bifrost MB is a tough sell at the moment with Modi MB out there, but as I mentioned a few posts back, I picked the Bimby in part because it would look better in my system, and I have to say, she looks great right out of the box.


 
  
 Pair it up with Schiit Saga with 5692 tube between your speakers and Bifrost MB and you've got a great sounding system.


----------



## DildorTheDecent

Anybody got the Black Jotunheim? Just wondering how it looks.


----------



## MWSVette

dildorthedecent said:


> Anybody got the Black Jotunheim? Just wondering how it looks.


 
  
 From the Jot thread;


----------



## mwhals

I would still like to hear more opinions on the Jotunheim and Mjolnir 2. Those are the two that I have narrowed my selection for purchase. I do not have anyone local to hear them. I know the Mjolnir 2 has tubes and the Jotunheim does not. I am wanting opinions on the non obvious.


----------



## franzdom

mwhals said:


> I would still like to hear more opinions on the Jotunheim and Mjolnir 2. Those are the two that I have narrowed my selection for purchase. I do not have anyone local to hear them. I know the Mjolnir 2 has tubes and the Jotunheim does not. I am wanting opinions on the non obvious.


 
  
 They are really quite similar, I have both and listen mostly to the Jot. Tubes are deep water, I bought many before I was comfortable I had great ones.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/2955#post_13092882
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/2805#post_13063042


----------



## mwhals

franzdom said:


> They are really quite similar, I have both and listen mostly to the Jot. Tubes are deep water, I bought many before I was comfortable I had great ones.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/2955#post_13092882
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/818323/schiit-jotunheim-review-preview-head-fi-tv/2805#post_13063042




Thanks. I am thinking of the following options, which I know are two different animals due to the DAC differences:

1. Jotunheim, Bimby, Saga (outputs to speakers and Jotunheim as I would leave Jotunheim off when listening to speakers. The Bimby would stay on due to its nature.)

2. Mjolnir 2 and Gumby (Gumby would go to Mjolnir 2 with balanced cables and to the speakers with RCA cables. Same power scenario as option one).

In both options, I would use a Sys on the speaker line to kill it when listening to speakers. The speakers are self powered.

I like the Gumby specs better than the Bimby. A Jotunheim would also work with a Gumby, so that is a third combination I guess. I just think aesthetically the Mjolnir 2 stacks better with the Gumby.

I also heard the Jotunheim is more forward sounding than the Mjolnir 2, but the latter has better spacing or imaging.


----------



## FLTWS

mwhals said:


> Thanks. I am thinking of the following options, which I know are two different animals due to the DAC differences:
> 
> 1. Jotunheim, Bimby, Saga (outputs to speakers and Jotunheim as I would leave Jotunheim off when listening to speakers. The Bimby would stay on due to its nature.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 As a primarily classical music listener I prefer MJ2 with tubes (and my Rag). I don't spend a lot of time listening to more popular genres of music and when I do it's not critically.
  
 I found the midrange forwardness and brightness associated with Joti is extremely minimal over MJ2 and to some extent, tube dependent. I feel the Joti may be a touch more transparent than my MJ2 or Rag but that may be just a function of it's midrange presentation which gives the impression it is more forward to my ears. And depending on the quality of the recorded source (which is always secondary to performance with my classical music and Jazz), absolute accuracy in the electronic chain between source and transducer doesn't guarantee an involving or  pleasant listening experience.
  
 My impression of Joti to MJ2 is it goes deeper into the bass with more control, it's crystal clear in the vocal range, and depending on the recording can be brighter on top than MJ2 (or Rag).
  
 One of the most difficult things to do is convey in words the subtle differences in sound between components, especially from the same design teams. The words we end up using for the sake of clarity may lead one to believe these hearable differences are bigger, more significant than they actually are.
  
 I sometimes wonder if in-room speakers might  display differences in sound characteristics more readily but I'm HP only since retiring/downsizing and after all, this is a HP forum. I find the source and transducer are where the big differences are to be found.
  
 My headphone of choice is the HD800 for these impressions.


----------



## DildorTheDecent

mwsvette said:


> From the Jot thread;


 
 Oh damn. Different knob just looks weird though.


----------



## mwhals

fltws said:


> As a primarily classical music listener I prefer MJ2 with tubes (and my Rag). I don't spend a lot of time listening to more popular genres of music and when I do it's not critically.
> 
> I found the midrange forwardness and brightness associated with Joti is extremely minimal over MJ2 and to some extent, tube dependent. I feel the Joti may be a touch more transparent than my MJ2 or Rag but that may be just a function of it's midrange presentation which gives the impression it is more forward to my ears. And depending on the quality of the recorded source (which is always secondary to performance with my classical music and Jazz), absolute accuracy in the electronic chain between source and transducer doesn't guarantee an involving or  pleasant listening experience.
> 
> ...




Thanks! It sounds like either decision is great. The DAC might make the decision - Bimby vs Gumby. I would go with the amp that stacks best with the DAC since the DACs have the largest difference.


----------



## bigro

dildorthedecent said:


> Oh damn. Different knob just looks weird though.


 
 Yeah the black Looks Good but I think the Knob Should be black too.


----------



## artur9

dildorthedecent said:


> Oh damn. Different knob just looks weird though.


 

 That would totally match my preamplifier.  Only reason waiting for a balanced DAC in black.


----------



## john777

dildorthedecent said:


> Anybody got the Black Jotunheim? Just wondering how it looks.




IMO, the knob should be black too.


----------



## Eric510

Ugh. All this Joti talk has me thinking of maybe getting one. :-/ Thanks guys.


----------



## mwhals

theveterans said:


> Pair it up with Schiit Saga with 5692 tube between your speakers and Bifrost MB and you've got a great sounding system.




This is one of my options. Bimby to Saga to Jotunheim and Sys to speakers.


----------



## bigro

mwhals said:


> This is one of my options. Bimby to Saga to Jotunheim and Sys to speakers.


 
 Out of curiosity, What are you using the Sys for? The Saga Has Multiple outputs


----------



## mwhals

bigro said:


> Out of curiosity, What are you using the Sys for? The Saga Has Multiple outputs




The way I understand it, the Saga keeps both outputs active, so the Sys would be to silence the speakers when using headphones through the amp. The Sys would be at full volume at all times, so speaker volume would be controlled by the Saga. The Sys would be acting as a switch for speakers. It is ergonomically poor to get to the back of them both to turn them off.

I am open to a better solution if anyone has one.


----------



## bigro

mwhals said:


> The way I understand it, the Saga keeps both outputs active, so the Sys would be to silence the speakers when using headphones through the amp. The Sys would be at full volume at all times, so speaker volume would be controlled by the Saga. The Sys would be acting as a switch for speakers. It is ergonomically poor to get to the back of them both to turn them off.
> 
> I am open to a better solution if anyone has one.


 

 Ahh Active Monitors, Makes sense. There are other solutions but they may not necessarily be better.


----------



## franzdom

I am running active monitors balanced now so the remote power outlet is best for me. If I was using RCA's I think the SYS would be a decent solution. However then the speakers would be on all the time. That doesn't work for me.


----------



## bigro

franzdom said:


> I am running active monitors balanced now so the remote power outlet is best for me. If I was using RCA's I think the SYS would be a decent solution. However then the speakers would be on all the time. That doesn't work for me.


 

 Yep. I was puzzled using the sys inline with the Sage until he mentioned Monitors, Makes sense.
  
 For the Balanced Monitors this little thing from JBL looks pretty Slick as it will do Balanced and SE so long as you are ok with the combo jacks. The nice thing is the Mute Button.
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/recording-broadcast/monitor-controllers/nano-patch-plus#.WHeOHn1ezis


----------



## DildorTheDecent

bigro said:


> Yeah the black Looks Good but I think the Knob Should be black too.


 
  
  


john777 said:


> IMO, the knob should be black too.


 
 All black looks would be pretty damn cool. 
  
 It is something that can be easily changed though. But would be great from the factory.


----------



## trs451797

chinoson said:


> Looking good. Here's a shot of my bimby and valhalla2 setup.
> Here's a shot of the battlestation. Ignore the non walls basement isn't finished yet


 
 How good is the bimby multibit with the valhalla 2? :O


----------



## ChinoSon

I'm loving the combo. The only thing I can compare it to is my OPPO HA-2. Much smoother with the schiit combo. The HA-2 is very clean with the hd540s and the schiit smoothes it all out. Definitely recommend it


----------



## chrisprotos

Agree with ChinoSon. I'm running the same setup and it sounds great. Even using the bimby with tidal and Valhalla 2 as a pre-amp in my 2 channel system. Anybody else going this route?


----------



## Sam Lord

mwhals said:


> This is one of my options. Bimby to Saga to Jotunheim and Sys to speakers.


 
  
  


bigro said:


> Out of curiosity, What are you using the Sys for? The Saga Has Multiple outputs


 
  
  


mwhals said:


> The way I understand it, the Saga keeps both outputs active, so the Sys would be to silence the speakers when using headphones through the amp. The Sys would be at full volume at all times, so speaker volume would be controlled by the Saga. The Sys would be acting as a switch for speakers. It is ergonomically poor to get to the back of them both to turn them off.
> 
> I am open to a better solution if anyone has one.


 
  
  


franzdom said:


> I am running active monitors balanced now so the remote power outlet is best for me. If I was using RCA's I think the SYS would be a decent solution. However then the speakers would be on all the time. That doesn't work for me.


 
  
 mwhals:
  
 I might have written you about this setup awhile back but can't find it, so I apologize if this has been answered already.
  
 Why don't you split the Bimby output to Saga for the speakers and Jot for the phones?  Dunno what quality of cables you have, but Blue Jeans builds good star-quad-based Canare and Mogami Y-interconnects all the time with great techniques, e.g. welded terminations.  Also, many fancy cable companies (including Cardas) will make them if you want.  Have them make the split immediately after the Bimby for best performance, but it hardly matters with star-quad cables, the conductors remain separate right until the terminations.
  
 Or you could use good-quality RCA Y-adapters like Pangea or AQ.  In that case, definitely make the split right at the Bimby's outputs.  The goal is to avoid having potentiometers in series in the circuit: that always affects dynamics to some degree, even with the excellent pot fully maxed in the Sys.


----------



## Kn1nJa

trs451797 said:


> How good is the bimby multibit with the valhalla 2? :O


 
  
 My personal experience is that it is absolutely fantastic. I moved up from a Mimby/Vali2 combo and I cannot begin to describe how much more awesome it was (to me at least, a relative audio newb).


----------



## Unfie

I've finally gotten around to upgrading my Bifrost Uber to Bifrost Multibit after owning it for 3 years. I can't exactly do an A/B test to tell the differences between the two, but it sounds pretty fabulous! As much as I'd like to upgrade from my Valhalla, I don't know if the 2 would be worth it.


----------



## MWSVette

unfie said:


> I've finally gotten around to upgrading my Bifrost Uber to Bifrost Multibit after owning it for 3 years. I can't exactly do an A/B test to tell the differences between the two, but it sounds pretty fabulous! As much as I'd like to upgrade from my Valhalla, I don't know if the 2 would be worth it.


 

 Not if you are happy with your original Valhalla...


----------



## Unfie

mwsvette said:


> Not if you are happy with your original Valhalla...


 
  
 I keep on hearing about how amazing the Bottlehead Crack is. I wish I could try it out. I can't exactly make it. In fact, I haven't had access to this setup much because I've been traveling. Kinda scared to bring it along in my luggage. TSA might think it's a bomb...


----------



## SP Wild

unfie said:


> I keep on hearing about how amazing the Bottlehead Crack is. I wish I could try it out. I can't exactly make it. In fact, I haven't had access to this setup much because I've been traveling. Kinda scared to bring it along in my luggage. TSA might think it's a bomb...




Had some Chinese 6n11 tubes from a cheapie chinese OTL. Went a long way to making my Valhalla2 come close to my crack speedball sound. Best tube I heard so far.... Better than the freakin russian EB tubes... Can't think of the numbers now 6n23 I think.


----------



## Unfie

By the way, I guess the upgrade to Bifrost Multibit ended up with Schiit packaging what's probably the Bifrost Uber board. Do people actually buy these things? I mean it's not 4490, so it's already outdated. Do I just toss this?


----------



## gzubeck

unfie said:


> By the way, I guess the upgrade to Bifrost Multibit ended up with Schiit packaging what's probably the Bifrost Uber board. Do people actually buy these things? I mean it's not 4490, so it's already outdated. Do I just toss this?


 
 Probably only if someone owns the very first bifrost. Maybe trade it for a 12 pack of beer.


----------



## Unfie

gzubeck said:


> Probably only if someone owns the very first bifrost. Maybe trade it for a 12 pack of beer.


 
 Jeez, I don't even know any audiophiles in my city. I'm sure they exist, but what are the odds of finding someone with just a regular Bifrost? Haha. I really don't want to just throw it away, though. It did serve me well...


----------



## gzubeck

unfie said:


> Jeez, I don't even know any audiophiles in my city. I'm sure they exist, but what are the odds of finding someone with just a regular Bifrost? Haha. I really don't want to just throw it away, though. It did serve me well...


 
 Put it on ebay. somebody will find a use for it. $5 is $5 you can spend somewhere else...


----------



## MWSVette

unfie said:


> Jeez, I don't even know any audiophiles in my city. I'm sure they exist, but what are the odds of finding someone with just a regular Bifrost? Haha. I really don't want to just throw it away, though. It did serve me well...


 

 I have seen them sell for $40.00 plus on ebay.  Somebody might want it...


----------



## ZJee

Hey, just curious if any schiit modi 1 or 2 owners can tell me something. I bought a modi 2 online but the board seems a bit weird. Its a green board that more closely resembles the modi 1 board with a couple differences. 
Can anyone tell me weather this is a modi 1 or 2? Thanks.


----------



## Letmebefrank

zjee said:


> Hey, just curious if any schiit modi 1 or 2 owners can tell me something. I bought a modi 2 online but the board seems a bit weird. Its a green board that more closely resembles the modi 1 board with a couple differences.
> Can anyone tell me weather this is a modi 1 or 2? Thanks.




Look at the board, it says modi v1.35, not modi 2. If it was modi 2 it would say modi 2 v1.xx. Looks like they scammed you. Bummer.  Let us know who it was if they don't make it good so we can avoid them!


----------



## canali

you gotta' love Schiit for having a trustworthy brand.
  
 i'm seeking a new DAC for my desktop....to work with cans/iems
 and some powered focal alpha 50 speakers (just getting these today...excited)
  
*my current DACs*: mojo, ifi micro idsd (selling) and dragonfly red
  
 I am considering the upcoming and new *chord hugo 2*
 ...or the *wadia 122* that my friend has (he swears by wadia, saying
 Wadia was one of the pioneers into DAC development)
 http://www.wadia.com/en-us/products/di122
 or the* **Yggdrasil *or* Gungnir Multibit* (suggested by Schiit).
  
ideally seeking a versatile DAC that pairs well with many different amps (tube or ss)
(i have a *mapletree ear+ HD* tube amp)
and different cans/iems, wont' get 'dated' anytime soon
....i'd rather pay a bit more than a bit less, esp for Schiit
as I just intuitively feel they're a good group to deal with.
  
thanks for any imput.


----------



## theveterans

canali said:


> you gotta' love Schiit for having a trustworthy brand.
> 
> i'm seeking a new DAC for my desktop....
> am considering the upcoming and new *chord hugo 2*
> ...


 
  
 IMO, I don't think you will get outdated with the Hugo 2 as your DAC since Hugo 2 has 4 filters AFAIK to cater to the sound you like while Yggdrasil is just a flat neutral sound and Gungnir Multibit is slightly warmer than Yggdrasil. The issue with Hugo 2 is the battery needing to service every few years in the long run. As for pairing to amps, it is best to stick to the analog stage output of the Hugo 2 rather than use another amp since Chord DACs sounds best without using an amp in my experience with Chord Mojo that I currently use for my travel setup.
  
 Never heard of the Wadia 122, but if you can loan an Yggdrasil and compare with your friend's wadia, that should decide if you want to go the Schiit route or something else.


----------



## canali

theveterans said:


> IMO, I don't think you will get outdated with the Hugo 2 as your DAC since Hugo 2 has 4 filters AFAIK to cater to the sound you like while Yggdrasil is just a flat neutral sound and Gungnir Multibit is slightly warmer than Yggdrasil. The issue with Hugo 2 is the battery needing to service every few years in the long run. As for pairing to amps, it is best to stick to the analog stage output of the Hugo 2 rather than use another amp since Chord DACs sounds best without using an amp in my experience with Chord Mojo that I currently use for my travel setup.
> 
> Never heard of the Wadia 122, but if you can loan an Yggdrasil and compare with your friend's wadia, that should decide if you want to go the Schiit route or something else.


 
  
  
 thanks...
  
 hope you all enjoy this, by Ty of Innerfidelity, writing recently for Stereophile.
  
*'Of headphones to come'*
*http://www.stereophile.com/content/headphones-come*
  
 pic below:
 Some 100 engineers and scientists from around the globe assembled for the
 Audio Engineering Society's 2016 International Conference on Headphone Technology, in Aalborg, Denmark.
 Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/headphones-come#FcHgPfSK2YeCRBMz.99


----------



## ZJee

letmebefrank said:


> Look at the board, it says modi v1.35, not modi 2. If it was modi 2 it would say modi 2 v1.xx. Looks like they scammed you. Bummer.  Let us know who it was if they don't make it good so we can avoid them!




I contacted schiit and apperently there was at one time a batch of modi 2s made on green modi 1 boards due to a shortage of the proper board. The seller said he bought these straight from schiit and showed me a reciept and proof of purchase.


----------



## Letmebefrank

zjee said:


> I contacted schiit and apperently there was at one time a batch of modi 2s made on green modi 1 boards due to a shortage of the proper board. The seller said he bought these straight from schiit and showed me a reciept and proof of purchase.




Very interesting. Hopefully it is legit then. When it's plugged into your pc what is the name in the playback settings?


----------



## stuck limo

Hey everyone! Recently I upgraded my Schiit Vali to a Vahalla 2. [my first experience with tube amps] Follow my journey here: http://imgur.com/a/YrnU6    ......[ok, it's just a fun unboxing with impressions and set up pictures and narration]
  
 I'm feeding it with iFi iPurifier2 > Geek Out 2A Infinity DAC/Amp and then into Sennheiser 600s. I'm really impressed with it. I was told to upgrade the stock tubes for an entirely new experience, but these stock tubes are certainly no slouch. They're very neutral, clean and detailed. The smile hasn't left my face yet (except for when I got some electrical interference). The other day I pre-amped the Valhalla 2 into a Marantz PM5005 and fed that into my speakers. I can't say the experience bowled me over. Overall, I didn't feel the tubes did a whole lot of much and it was just unnecessary generally speaking. So I brought it back to the PC and let it excel there.
  
 I also tried some low impedence headphones [V-Moda M-100s] on the Valhalla (low/high gain) and kept getting some sort of interference/static on that as well, so I'm leaving the amp for Senn 600 exclusively, unless others have some tips or something.
  
 The two items I've now owned from Schiit have really blown me away and/or impressed me. In the future, I'm definitely going to be thinking about Schiit products to fill my spaces with and pass down to my children. On a side note, the guy I sold my Vali to had never heard anything so good in his life either and now he worships it apparently. PC games "came to life" in his words on his system.


----------



## Kn1nJa

stuck limo said:


> ...
> 
> The two items I've now owned from Schiit have really blown me away and/or impressed me. In the future, I'm definitely going to be thinking about Schiit products to fill my spaces with and pass down to my children. On a side note, the guy I sold my Vali to had never heard anything so good in his life either and now he worships it apparently. PC games "came to life" in his words on his system.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the unboxing pics! The valhalla 2 really is quite an awesome amp.
  
 From your pictures it looks like your amp runs a lot like mine. Maybe it's just me, but it looks like the rightmost input tube glows a little brighter than the rest. I've always just chalked it up as one of my tubes just being a little different than the others, but if yours does it too then maybe it's intended? It probably neither matters nor means anything, since the amp sounds amazing.
  
 I use a Bimby (Bifrost Multibit) with my Valhalla 2 and it's really amazing. It is definitely the best setup I have ever owned.


----------



## ChinoSon

i'll bring my m100's home from work and test them out with the valhalla 2 to see if i get any of that interference as well. i didnt even bother testing them, just been strictly used with my 650's


----------



## stuck limo

kn1nja said:


> From your pictures it looks like your amp runs a lot like mine. Maybe it's just me, but it looks like the rightmost input tube glows a little brighter than the rest. I've always just chalked it up as one of my tubes just being a little different than the others, but if yours does it too then maybe it's intended? It probably neither matters nor means anything, since the amp sounds amazing.


 
  
 I've always wondered about that too. It must be by design.


chinoson said:


> i'll bring my m100's home from work and test them out with the valhalla 2 to see if i get any of that interference as well. i didnt even bother testing them, just been strictly used with my 650's


 
  
 Yeah, let me know if you're getting any sort of interference or static or anything through them.


----------



## cherrypepsi

stuck limo said:


> I've always wondered about that too. It must be by design.
> 
> Yeah, let me know if you're getting any sort of interference or static or anything through them.


 
 I am currently using valhalla 2 with bimby and moded HD650, an wonderful combo. My experience is that if you leave the valhalla 2 on for a long time, say a couple of days or longer. There will be some slight static/interference. Otherwise, it's pretty slience.


----------



## Paladin79

I do a lot of tube swapping and in one case I had a microphonic tube that was giving me noise issues. The noise would clear when I carefully touched the tip of the glass at the top of the tube (body capacitance perhaps) and that is how i located it.


----------



## Exidrion

I've been wanting to try tubes, but I already have a Rag. I wish there was a tubed version of the Rag. Maybe I'll swap it out for a mjolnir 2 heh.


----------



## cgkades

I bout the Fulla 2 and was super happy with it and the packaging. I just ordered a Vali 2 and a Modi 2, and I have mixed feelings about them. I mean, they sound great, but for one, they're unusable out of the box. Which was a surprise for me since I have been looking at them for about a month before finally ordering them. I've read their features on their site and read about them on here, and not once did I see that they don't come with any cables. They also have different finish to them which is driving me crazy. Absolutely Crazy. It's stupid gripes, but they're pretty aggravating. I almost want to sand them both down and paint them so that they actually match.


----------



## artur9

My wife is torturing me.  She had to leave town suddenly and today a package with a Schiit return address shows up.  Must resist....


----------



## Baldr

Succumb...........................................


----------



## Letmebefrank

cgkades said:


> I bout the Fulla 2 and was super happy with it and the packaging. I just ordered a Vali 2 and a Modi 2, and I have mixed feelings about them. I mean, they sound great, but for one, they're unusable out of the box. Which was a surprise for me since I have been looking at them for about a month before finally ordering them. I've read their features on their site and read about them on here, and not once did I see that they don't come with any cables. They also have different finish to them which is driving me crazy. Absolutely Crazy. It's stupid gripes, but they're pretty aggravating. I almost want to sand them both down and paint them so that they actually match.




Vali 2 is grained aluminum and modi 2 non-uber is painted steel, they were never intended to match perfectly. The modi 2 Uber however is grained aluminum and matches the Vali 2 nicely. 

I can see the argument for having it say somewhere obvious that it doesn't include cables, but it does say in the user manual, which is available for download on their site, that they don't include cables.


----------



## cgkades

letmebefrank said:


> Vali 2 is grained aluminum and modi 2 non-uber is painted steel, they were never intended to match perfectly. The modi 2 Uber however is grained aluminum and matches the Vali 2 nicely.
> 
> I can see the argument for having it say somewhere obvious that it doesn't include cables, but it does say in the user manual, which is available for download on their site, that they don't include cables.


 
  
 Yeah, I just didn't imagine that I would need to look to see if they included cables, I've never had a product that didn't come with them. But to your point about them not being intended to match perfectly, I would disagree slightly. The Vali 2 shows it being matched (perfectly) with the Modi 2 Uber, and what I came to figure out later... the Modi Uber (not the Modi 2 regular which it looks like in the image). So, the product images of the Vali 2 show it pared with the Modi 2, and the product images of the Modi 2 show it being pared with the Vali 2. There is only slight differences which are not apparent to someone who does not own them. Also the Image of the Vali 2 with the matching Modi Uber is VERY misleading because the U is blurred out from bokeh. So... I was VERY surprised to see that they didn't match (and still a bit bitter about it). But.. in the end it's all cosmetic, as they do sound great. It's just frustrating to not get what you were expecting, and what I was expecting was based on all their product images.


----------



## Letmebefrank

cgkades said:


> Yeah, I just didn't imagine that I would need to look to see if they included cables, I've never had a product that didn't come with them. But to your point about them not being intended to match perfectly, I would disagree slightly. The Vali 2 shows it being matched (perfectly) with the Modi 2 Uber, and what I came to figure out later... the Modi Uber (not the Modi 2 regular which it looks like in the image). So, the product images of the Vali 2 show it pared with the Modi 2, and the product images of the Modi 2 show it being pared with the Vali 2. There is only slight differences which are not apparent to someone who does not own them. Also the Image of the Vali 2 with the matching Modi Uber is VERY misleading because the U is blurred out from bokeh. So... I was VERY surprised to see that they didn't match (and still a bit bitter about it). But.. in the end it's all cosmetic, as they do sound great. It's just frustrating to not get what you were expecting, and what I was expecting was based on all their product images.




Just enjoy the music and don't worry about how it looks, and in a few days you won't even notice. 

However, if it bugs you that much, send the modi 2 back for the Uber version and then they will both be grained aluminum. I'm pretty sure they don't charge a restocking fee for upgrades. 

The image in question is a bit blurry where the U is at, however it's pretty obvious that it has a button. I think it's plain from the images on the modi 2 page that the non Uber version has no button and a different finish than the Uber.


----------



## cgkades

letmebefrank said:


> Just enjoy the music and don't worry about how it looks, and in a few days you won't even notice.
> 
> However, if it bugs you that much, send the modi 2 back for the Uber version and then they will both be grained aluminum. I'm pretty sure they don't charge a restocking fee for upgrades.
> 
> The image in question is a bit blurry where the U is at, however it's pretty obvious that it has a button. I think it's plain from the images on the modi 2 page that the non Uber version has no button and a different finish than the Uber.


 
  
 Haha well I can argue all day on how if you don't know to look for something you wont see it (like a slight difference in finishes between separate pictures). Even in a few days I will still notice, since I bought the pair specifically to match, but it is what it is. I was, and still am, slightly disappointed. Maybe someone in my place, researching the stack, will read this and either accept the difference or save up a little longer to buy the uber.


----------



## stuck limo

cherrypepsi said:


> I am currently using valhalla 2 with bimby and moded HD650, an wonderful combo. My experience is that if you leave the valhalla 2 on for a long time, say a couple of days or longer. There will be some slight static/interference. Otherwise, it's pretty slience.


 
  
 Yeah, there was interference from my PC/wifi router but I moved the RCA cables and it cleared up completely.


----------



## winders

I don't know....I looked at the web site and re-read the FAQ. The FAQ makes it clear that the Modi 2 has a painted steel chassis. Did you read that? There is no way a painted steel chassis will look like an unpainted aluminum chassis.
  
 This is on you. 
  
 In regards to cables being included or not. Hardly anyone includes interconnect cable unless they are proprietary. Again, they are offered as accessories on the web site.
  
 Again, this is on you too.


----------



## ChinoSon

just tested the valhalla 2 with my m-100s on low gain and no static or breakup....smooth as butter my dude. maybe try another cable?


----------



## stuck limo

chinoson said:


> just tested the valhalla 2 with my m-100s on low gain and no static or breakup....smooth as butter my dude. maybe try another cable?


 
  
 I'll be getting some new headphone cables tomorrow for my V-Modas so I'll test then!


----------



## cgkades

winders said:


> I don't know....I looked at the web site and re-read the FAQ. The FAQ makes it clear that the Modi 2 has a painted steel chassis. Did you read that? There is no way a painted steel chassis will look like an unpainted aluminum chassis.
> 
> This is on you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nope, didn't read the FAQ... I didn't have a question. I simply couldn't tell that there was a difference, and that the finishes would be different between models (a decision that still doesn't make sense to me). I'm not saying that the products are bad, or that they're terrible for my confusion. I just wish it was a bit more clear that there is a difference. On me or not, I can still be disappointed in what I (didn't) receive. Don't get me wrong though, I would still recommend Schiit products, I would just let whomever know that they need to get the Modi 2 Uber if they care about it matching.


----------



## Exidrion

Yeah, always read the FAQ, Can't really blame Schiit though, they probably didn;t expect people to care so much about a silver chassis.


----------



## orphean

exidrion said:


> Yeah, always read the FAQ, Can't really blame Schiit though, they probably didn;t expect people to care so much about a silver chassis.




Aesthetic concerns are absolutely valid. None of this stuff is essential for living, we buy it for the enjoyment of it and for a lot of people 'enjoyment' is the full package experience from look and feel to sound quality. I ended up emailing Schiit when looking at an upgrade to the Modi M from the 2U just to make sure it had the grained aluminum chassis for example.

Maybe people are on edge from that whole Stereophile fiasco or something but there's no need to pounce on somebody's concern that they didn't receive what they thought they purchased and are a bit dissapointed. It was hardly some kind of slam against the products or Schiit.

For what it's worth, when I bought my Magni/Modi 2U stack it wasn't at all clear from their website what was included or that the finishes were different. In my case that's what brought me to head-fi because I wanted to read about it a bit more before purchase. That shouldn't be a requirement though!


----------



## winders

orphean said:


> Maybe people are on edge from that whole Stereophile fiasco or something but there's no need to pounce on somebody's concern that they didn't receive what they thought they purchased and are a bit dissapointed. It was hardly some kind of slam against the products or Schiit.


 
  
 Nobody pounced on him. People explained the reality of the situation to him.


----------



## orphean

winders said:


> Nobody pounced on him. People explained the reality of the situation to him.




The fact that basic product information has to be actively searched for in related materials such as the FAQ and manual is feedback Schiit should hear. No need to be disingenuous.


----------



## winders

orphean said:


> The fact that basic product information has to be actively searched for in related materials such as the FAQ and manual is feedback Schiit should hear. No need to be disingenuous.


 

 I am not being disingenuous.
  
 I don't know any manufacturer web site that says, "Hey, keep in mind that the paint color of product A doesn't exactly match the brushed aluminum color of product Z in our catalog".
  
 Also, as I said before, hardly any manufacturer includes interconnect cables unless they are proprietary. I'll add that a lot audiophiles prefer to use their own favorite interconnects.
  
 Who is pouncing on whom?


----------



## Left Channel

Huh. The covers of my Magni 2U and Modi 2U look and feel slightly different, even though they are both supposed to be aluminum, per the FAQs. The Modi feels smoother, as if it's painted. I was thinking it was just due to different raw material for each run.

 I never noticed this while they were stacked, but it showed up for me when I put them side-by-side and more in my line of sight. And now that I've read this thread, I can't stop looking at them. Thanks a _lot_.


----------



## winders

The Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber both have brush aluminum finishes and are not painted.


----------



## Left Channel

winders said:


> The Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber both have brush aluminum finishes and are not painted.


 

 That is what the FAQ says. But mine do look and feel different. Also the Modi 2U is supposed to have an aluminum button to match the Magni 2U knob, but my Modi button feels and sounds plastic. And I'll get over it.


----------



## Astral Abyss

When I bought my original Vali and Modi 2U, I knew they were different finishes.  I thought I'd be ok with it, but it actually drove my OCD-ness crazy.  Oh well, it hardly matters anymore becuase I was hooked and my current Yggy and Rag match perfectly, heh.
  
 I think that a lot of Modi/Magni/Vali owners might be first-time purchasers of audiophile type gear.  As all of us old timers know, they never come with interconnects.  It's easy to say, "Duh." to someone just getting started, but keep in mind this is a whole new experience to a lot of folks out there.


----------



## Eric510

I, for one, don't give a schiit about the texture/color of these things (there, I said it!. The dang things look close enough. I can't believe we're even discussing this. Heh. Sure, it IS valuable information for schiit to have... and rest assured I'm sure they've read this. But come on guys... let's get back to the (imo) important stuff. How's this schiit sound?


----------



## Left Channel

eric510 said:


> I, for one, don't give a schiit about the texture/color of these things (there, I said it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My entry-level Modi/Magni 2U stack sounds good, it's clear and bright the way I like it, but there are compromises. The Magni is very powerful, often too powerful for extended listening with low impedance headphones, and even with high impedance cans I often found it tiring and painful. At first I often turned the volume down below 8 o'clock, where I discovered that the Magni loses one channel because they used a low-cost volume pot to hit that price point. I had to install line attenuators to solve this problem.

 I'm mostly just messing with you guys about the finish, because I don't care all that much, but I seriously think my Modi 2U is painted and has a plastic button. All of these issues plus MQA have me wondering if I should go with something else instead of more Schiit when I upgrade. (When, not if, because I've clearly caught the Head-Fi bug.) But I'm enjoying discussions of higher-end Schiit here, and love Jason's stories as well as the whole Schiit gang's outlook on the business, so I'm still here.


----------



## Exidrion

left channel said:


> My entry-level Modi/Magni 2U stack sounds good, it's clear and bright the way I like it, but there are compromises. The Magni is very powerful, often too powerful for extended listening with low impedance headphones, and even with high impedance cans I often found it tiring and painful. At first I often turned the volume down below 8 o'clock, where I discovered that the Magni loses one channel because they used a low-cost volume pot to hit that price point. I had to install line attenuators to solve this problem.
> 
> 
> I'm mostly just messing with you guys about the finish, because I don't care all that much, but I seriously think my Modi 2U is painted and has a plastic button. All of these issues plus MQA have me wondering if I should go with something else instead of more Schiit when I upgrade. (When, not if, because I've clearly caught the Head-Fi bug.) But I'm enjoying discussions of higher-end Schiit here, and love Jason's stories as well as the whole Schiit gang's outlook on the business, so I'm still here.




If you're getting fatigued and literal PAIN at low volume like that it's not the magni's fault it's your headphones or you're listening too long lol. I wouldn't buy into MQA but yeah if stuff like that is important to you i'd stay away from Schiitt stuff.


----------



## Left Channel

exidrion said:


> If you're getting fatigued and literal PAIN at low volume like that it's not the magni's fault it's your headphones or you're listening too long lol. I wouldn't buy into MQA but yeah if stuff like that is important to you i'd stay away from Schiitt stuff.


 
 I'm clearly not the only one and it's not just the headphones, based on the head-fi thread I linked to above, plus other discussions on reddit, Amazon, and elsewhere. At the end of the Magni chapter in "Schiit Happens", they were marveling at how well that little thing can run the most demanding headphones. Turns out the other side of the coin is that — maybe just for the few of us here who haven't yet blown our ears out   — even the low gain setting on the Magni can be a problem with most other cans.

 It's interesting to note that I found the Magni just fine when connectd to a turntable, even with low impedance headphones. It was when I hooked it up to another Schiit product, the Modi, that it got too loud. My headphones range from 60 to 250 Ω, including studio monitors and a "warm colorful basshead" set, all closed-back. In fact, I bought the 250 Ω pair just for the Magni, and it still wasn't enough. Until I installed the attenuators I was keeping the 250 Ω cans at 9 o'clock or lower, and the low impedance 'phones at 8 o'clock, and both often went lower (especially for news or any extended listening) at which point I encountered the left channel dropout.

 As others have posted, after installing the attenuators I have much more range with the higher impedance 'phones, and depending on the content can now use the range between 9 and 12 o'clock. But the lower impedance cans still sit at around 8 o'clock; it's just that they're comfortable there now. (MQA is a whole 'nother discussion, I'm unsure about it myself, and have decided not to touch that in my reply. Oops, I just did.)


----------



## Exidrion

nevermind.


----------



## Left Channel

[No worries Exidrion. I knew you were joking around. Mostly.]

 Everyone's ears are different. If they weren't, this forum wouldn't be filled with so many contradictory reviews of headphones. For those who find the Magni too loud, especially if they turn the volume low enough to have one channel drop out, there are attenuators.

 In the "everyone's ears are different" department, you can also file this: I read one review of those attenuators where the guy heard a big difference with them in, and he described the difference very specifically, but no other reviewer heard any difference at all. I sure don't.

 But just in case you think I've got Spidey sense ears or something: when I put an UpTone USB REGEN inline (because Wyrd has been out of stock, and because the REGEN fits in the back), I heard no change at all. And most say we shouldn't hear any difference. But some people hear a _world_ of difference. Go figure.


----------



## Stinkys

Hi all, newbro here, I will be joining the Schiit list very soon with a Jotunheim \o/


----------



## Pahani

Anyone concerned with the cases of their Schiit products perfectly matching, probably shouldn't purchase a Wyrd. The case on mine appears sand-cast.
  
 Do I care? Not particularly.
  
 On a side note, I propose the next Schiit release should be called the Feck! And immediately followed with a Version 2.
  
 Schiit Feck U 2 ;p


----------



## MWSVette

Seems to be confusion about which Schiit cases are painted steel and which are aluminum.
  
 Here is a break-down;
  
 Painted steel:
  
 Fulla 2
  
 Magni 2
 Modi 2
 Sys
 Mani
 Wyrd
  
 Aluminum:
  
 Magni 2U
 Vali 2
 Modi 2U
 Modi 2 Multibit
  
 All larger Schiit is Aluminum.


----------



## Left Channel

My Magni 2U and Modi 2U cases do not match. I don't care all that much, but yes that is one more reason I should be happy I got a REGEN instead of a Wyrd, because the Wyrd might have had yet another finish. As to whether the REGEN does anything for my system I can't yet say. I may never be able to say.

 After I noticed my main computer losing the Modi every time I transmitted on 40 meter ham radio data modes, I fixed that problem by wrapping the Modi end of the PYST USB cable a few times through a ferrite toriod. But then I got to wondering about the clock and power isolation features of these "decrappifiers". Wyrd has been out of stock, but anyway REGEN may be another level up, and I also like how the REGEN plugs into the back and disappears.


----------



## RickB

left channel said:


> My Magni 2U and Modi 2U cases do not match. I don't care all that much, but yes that is one more reason I should be happy I got a REGEN instead of a Wyrd, because the Wyrd might have had yet another finish. As to whether the REGEN does anything for my system I can't yet say. I may never be able to say.
> 
> After I noticed my main computer losing the Modi every time I transmitted on 40 meter ham radio data modes, I fixed that problem by wrapping the Modi end of the PYST USB cable a few times through a ferrite toriod. But then I got to wondering about the clock and power isolation features of these "decrappifiers". Wyrd has been out of stock, but anyway REGEN may be another level up, and I also like how the REGEN plugs into the back and disappears.


 
 At this price point, you are giving up some things. One of them is cosmetic perfection. Would you rather that the finishes be absolutely matched and have to pay more money? 
  
 Nonetheless, I think the look and design language of the Schiit products is great.


----------



## Left Channel

I agree, that's enough about finishes. With Magni & Modi, you get what you pay for. Now, a mismatched Yiggy and Ragnarok might be enough to raise the wrath of Odin himself, but I am no king of the Æsir, so let's change the subject. How about Wyrd wizardry? Or Magni modulation? Or something.


----------



## Jimster480

I'm looking at buying Modi Multibit and Magni 2 Uber


----------



## MtnMan307

What headphones do you want to run with that stack?


----------



## captblaze

left channel said:


> I agree, that's enough about finishes. With Magni & Modi, you get what you pay for. Now, a mismatched Yiggy and Ragnarok might be enough to raise the wrath of Odin himself, but I am no king of the Æsir, so let's change the subject. How about Wyrd wizardry? Or Magni modulation? Or something.


 

 like this?


----------



## Jimster480

mtnman307 said:


> What headphones do you want to run with that stack?




Panasonic RP-HD10, 1More Triple driver. 
Eventually 1More quad driver, maybe some day some cIEMs. And probably Oppo PM-3 sometime in the future too. 

Also I will do a pass through for Klipsch reference powered monitors eventually.


----------



## Left Channel

SMITE! 
  
 Quote:


captblaze said:


> left channel said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, that's enough about finishes. With Magni & Modi, you get what you pay for. Now, a mismatched Yiggy and Ragnarok might be enough to raise the wrath of Odin himself, but I am no king of the Æsir, so let's change the subject. How about Wyrd wizardry? Or Magni modulation? Or something.
> ...


----------



## Baldr

left channel said:


> After I noticed my main computer losing the Modi every time I transmitted on 40 meter ham radio data modes, I fixed that problem by wrapping the Modi end of the PYST USB cable a few times through a ferrite toriod. But then I got to wondering about the clock and power isolation features of these "decrappifiers". Wyrd has been out of stock, but anyway REGEN may be another level up, and I also like how the REGEN plugs into the back and disappears.


 
 I operate from 40M to 70cm and expect a surprise every time I fire up any xmtr except the QRPest of QRP stuff.
  
 AI6RK


----------



## Jimster480

baldr said:


> I operate from 40M to 70cm and expect a surprise every time I fire up any xmtr except the QRPest of QRP stuff.
> 
> AI6RK


 
 is it true that the Magni is not too good for sensitive IEM's and low impedance phones?


----------



## GumbyDammit223

baldr said:


> I operate from 40M to 70cm and expect a surprise every time I fire up any xmtr except the QRPest of QRP stuff.
> 
> AI6RK


 

 In the same room???  I keep my ham stuff separate from my main computer / higher-end audio stuff so as to not get my ears confused as to what constitutes good sounding audio.  Otherwise I might start thinking SSB DX sounds good, or something in the broadcast bands is audiophile quality! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 AA7SR


----------



## Left Channel

baldr said:


> left channel said:
> 
> 
> > After I noticed my main computer losing the Modi every time I transmitted on 40 meter ham radio data modes, I fixed that problem by wrapping the Modi end of the PYST USB cable a few times through a ferrite toriod. But then I got to wondering about the clock and power isolation features of these "decrappifiers". Wyrd has been out of stock, but anyway REGEN may be another level up, and I also like how the REGEN plugs into the back and disappears.
> ...


 
  
  


gumbydammit223 said:


> baldr said:
> 
> 
> > I operate from 40M to 70cm and expect a surprise every time I fire up any xmtr except the QRPest of QRP stuff.
> ...


 
  
 Same room on separate computers here, with the antennas much farther away. But low band transmissions get into everything anyway. All data and power cables are beaded or wrapped in toroids, but 40 still gets into two TV sets' poorly-shielded IR remote control units, and 80 sometimes trips ACFI circuit breakers for rooms on the other side of the house. 15 is a problem only when the 1 KW amp is on, so I try to keep that at 500W. No other issues here, up to 23 cm with a 180W amp. 

 [Edit:] And on Gumby's point, to my ears there is no confusion between ham reception out of even the best Palstar speaker vs. the audio from my Schiit-centered music gear. Just don't try getting into this discussion with any of those old AMers out there with the vintage gear, hi hi.


----------



## Left Channel

jimster480 said:


> is it true that the Magni is not too good for sensitive IEM's and low impedance phones?


 
 It's a problem for me, but not for everyone, and not with every source. Magni has a high/low gain switch on the back, and on low I never experienced a problem feeding it from a turntable. It was only when I hooked it up to a Modi that I started having issues. The attenuators described in the post linked here mostly solved that for my ears, but I still get best results with 250 ohm cans.


----------



## Jimster480

left channel said:


> It's a problem for me, but not for everyone, and not with every source. Magni has a high/low gain switch on the back, and on low I never experienced a problem feeding it from a turntable. It was only when I hooked it up to a Modi that I started having issues. The attenuators described in the post linked here mostly solved that for my ears, but I still get best results with 250 ohm cans.


 
 Yes But I have only low impedence headphones.
 My "heaviest" pair is 40ohm


----------



## Left Channel

left channel said:


> jimster480 said:
> 
> 
> > is it true that the Magni is not too good for sensitive IEM's and low impedance phones?
> ...


 
  


jimster480 said:


> Yes But I have only low impedence headphones.
> My "heaviest" pair is 40ohm


 

 Plenty of people don't hear this and no have idea what we're talking about. They'd probably be just fine with 40 ohm headphones and a Magni. But with my 60 and 70 ohm 'phones I still keep the Magni's volume at 8 o'clock, though at least it's tolerable there now and I don't need to go lower (which is where one channel starts disappearing unevenly, due to the low-cost part they had to use).

 Still, for me those headphones can still be fatiguing, especially at the ranges those cans emphasize. That's why I've added a pair of flat-response 250 ohm headphones, and might go even higher-impedance at some point. Although I'm sure at some point I'll be upgrading the DAC and amp.

 Or, to put this another way...I've noticed on this forum many new members are greeted with "Welcome to Head Fi! Sorry about your wallet".


----------



## Baldr

gumbydammit223 said:


> In the same room???  I keep my ham stuff separate from my main computer / higher-end audio stuff so as to not get my ears confused as to what constitutes good sounding audio.  Otherwise I might start thinking SSB DX sounds good, or something in the broadcast bands is audiophile quality!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have a shack in an outbuilding 150 ft or so away, and it still causes problems in the house.  I also have a small system in the shack which I only use when I'm not using the ham stuff.


----------



## Jimster480

left channel said:


> Plenty of people don't hear this and no have idea what we're talking about. They'd probably be just fine with 40 ohm headphones and a Magni. But with my 60 and 70 ohm 'phones I still keep the Magni's volume at 8 o'clock, though at least it's tolerable there now and I don't need to go lower (which is where one channel starts disappearing unevenly, due to the low-cost part they had to use).
> 
> Still, for me those headphones can still be fatiguing, especially at the ranges those cans emphasize. That's why I've added a pair of flat-response 250 ohm headphones, and might go even higher-impedance at some point. Although I'm sure at some point I'll be upgrading the DAC and amp.
> 
> Or, to put this another way...I've noticed on this forum many new members are greeted with "Welcome to Head Fi! Sorry about your wallet".


 

 Ah okay, I don't typically like to listen too loud so this is really my only concern.
 On the other hand I could always buy a O2Amp and use it with the Modi Multibit, since that is what i have pretty much set on buying.


----------



## Left Channel

baldr said:


> gumbydammit223 said:
> 
> 
> > In the same room???  I keep my ham stuff separate from my main computer / higher-end audio stuff so as to not get my ears confused as to what constitutes good sounding audio.  Otherwise I might start thinking SSB DX sounds good, or something in the broadcast bands is audiophile quality!
> ...


 
  
 Oh, speaking of which, maybe you can set Jason straight about one thing: the only part of the Schiit Happened story that failed me was when he assumed that Morse code is still required for a ham license. On the other hand, he's sure right about how much a threat to erect a big antenna will scare the beejeezus out of any HOA!


----------



## Baldr

left channel said:


> Oh, speaking of which, maybe you can set Jason straight about one thing: the only part of the Schiit Happened story that failed me was when he assumed that Morse code is still required for a ham license. On the other hand, he's sure right about how much a threat to erect a big antenna will scare the beejeezus out of any HOA!


 

 Let me pronounce that all HOAs consist of controlling petty wannabe politicians who deserve fully erect antennae.  Never again!


----------



## artur9

baldr said:


> Succumb...........................................


 

 Thanks for that!  But I waited.  It was a Fulla2.  My 3rd piece of Schiit!


----------



## Byronb

baldr said:


> Let me pronounce that all HOAs are controlling petty wannabe politicians who deserve fully erect antennae.  Never again!



 

This is so true!!


----------



## StanD

gumbydammit223 said:


> In the same room???  I keep my ham stuff separate from my main computer / higher-end audio stuff so as to not get my ears confused as to what constitutes good sounding audio.  Otherwise I might start thinking SSB DX sounds good, or something in the broadcast bands is audiophile quality!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You ever listen to RTTY?


----------



## musickid

couple of points. im planning to go for gumby multibit start of april.
  
 1) is gunjnir multibit fully and properly grounded so i don't have to worry about galvanic isolation on inputs? i'm sure it is but would like confirmation.
  
 2) is gen 3 usb due very soon for gumby. wondering whether to hold back a little and wait// upgrade would be difficult for me or to get dealer to do it?
  
 3) would a good usb cable direct from imac to gumby multibit be fine (so i can take advantage of asynchrous usb without tweaks?)
  
 many thanks to all mk.


----------



## Baldr

stand said:


> You ever listen to RTTY?



The problem is that RTTY's highs are plagued by a lack of sparkle that only USBs deliver. A further advantage of USB is that it lacks the tubby and flatulent bass which so affects LSB.


----------



## thyname

Can somebody with direct experience with Schiit Bifrost regular (4490 - latest gen) and Bifrost Multibit indicate whether there is a difference between the two?
  
 Planning to use with HD 800 coming in the mail tomorrow.
  
 I have the regular Bifrost, but not sure if it is worth to pay $250 (plus shipping) to have Schiit upgrade it to Multibit.
  
 I tried to read from their website, and it is all gibberish to me. I also emailed Schiit directly, and I received a really stupid answer, practically saying nothing.


----------



## Byronb

thyname said:


> Can somebody with direct experience with Schiit Bifrost regular (4490 - latest gen) and Bifrost Multibit indicate whether there is a difference between the two?
> 
> Planning to use with HD 800 coming in the mail tomorrow.
> 
> ...


 
 I am sure the Schiit team said the same thing I will say, with perhaps more humor.  No one can tell you if the is worth $250.00 for you. It is all based on personal taste. For me it was absolutely worth it.


----------



## thyname

byronb said:


> I am sure the Schiit team said the same thing I will say, with perhaps more humor.  No one can tell you if the is worth $250.00 for you. It is all based on personal taste. For me it was absolutely worth it.


 
  
 Worth it as in....? Could you be a bit more specific? What does it improve? Thanks!


----------



## Byronb

thyname said:


> Worth it as in....? Could you be a bit more specific? What does it improve? Thanks!


 
 I am not one to really have the skills to put what I am hearing into words, but I will give it a shot. The Multibit has a cleaner and more honest presentation. I feel instruments sound more realistic than with the 4490.


----------



## thyname

byronb said:


> I am not one to really have the skills to put what I am hearing into words, but I will give it a shot. The Multibit has a cleaner and more honest presentation. I feel instruments sound more realistic than with the 4490.


 
 Thanks! This helps.
  
 I guess because a different brand / higher quality DAC is used on Multibit vs. 4490?


----------



## MWSVette

thyname said:


> Thanks! This helps.
> 
> I guess because a different brand / higher quality DAC is used on Multibit vs. 4490?


 
 Yes.
  
 But is not all about the chip regardless of brand of DAC.  It is more about chip and its implementation...


----------



## Defiant00

musickid said:


> couple of points. im planning to go for gumby multibit start of april.
> 
> 1) is gunjnir multibit fully and properly grounded so i don't have to worry about galvanic isolation on inputs? i'm sure it is but would like confirmation.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) Yes, it is fully and properly grounded. USB is not "galvanically isolated" according to @Baldr . I believe it was because it's a term (with regards to USB) with no proper/formal universally-accepted definition, but I could be mis-remembering.
  
 2) Gen 3 USB, as far as any of us know, is a Yggy-exclusive feature. If they were to offer it as an upgrade, it should be simple to do either on your own or with minimal hassle from your dealer (based off of other upgrades that have been offered in the past).
  
 3) Fine? Yes. Some say the other inputs and/or various converters sound better, but that doesn't mean USB sounds bad.


----------



## Byronb

mwsvette said:


> Yes.
> 
> But is not all about the chip regardless of brand of DAC.  It is more about chip and its implementation...


 
 Exactly, the implementation is crucial.


----------



## Jimster480

mwsvette said:


> Yes.
> 
> But is not all about the chip regardless of brand of DAC.  It is more about chip and its implementation...


 

 Yes and the multibit is completely implementation as its a DAC for healthcare, weapons, etc


----------



## thyname

So I take it with those sarcastic / funny comments there is really no difference between 4490 and Multibit?


----------



## r2muchstuff

That, for me, is wrong, the MB DACs are better than the DS DACs.  I hear the Modi MB as better than the Modi 4490 and the Bifrost and Gungnir MBs are even more so.
  
 Just the way I hear them   You could hear differently.
  
 Not just the DAC chips are in play, there is the Baldr filter and the rest of the implementation.
  
 JMTC & YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Jimster480

thyname said:


> So I take it with those sarcastic / funny comments there is really no difference between 4490 and Multibit?


 

 No I think there should be a difference, atleast from a scientific aspect.
 Whether you can hear the difference.... well I don't have 2 units side by side to try to compare. But many have claimed that they can infact hear the difference.


----------



## StanD

baldr said:


> The problem is that RTTY's highs are plagued by a lack of sparkle that only USBs deliver. A further advantage of USB is that it lacks the tubby and flatulent bass which so affects LSB.


 
 So which type of DAC do you recommend for RTTY, R2R or DS? I'm told that Baudot is getting a revised spec for hi-def audio transmission.


----------



## musickid

HELP NEEDED....
  
 My budget stretches to gumby multibit and a decent usb cable from imac to gumby. or metrum musette r2r dac plus a mutec 1.2 dac bridge for usb to spdif conversion. i will have no more funds to add tweaks to a gumby afterwards so buy now experiment later is not an option. gumby is very attractive as i know schitt sound from a modi multibit i had earlier. musette also good but in addition has galvanic isolation on coax. i know this is the schitt thread but impartial advice based on above would be greatly received. my mutec 1.2 arrives monday so i have 1 day to decide whether to return it or not.
 cheers mk.


----------



## Baldr

stand said:


> So which type of DAC do you recommend for RTTY, R2R or DS? I'm told that Baudot is getting a revised spec for hi-def audio transmission.


 

 I didn't properly express that USB (upper sideband, NOT Universal Serial buss) has the sparkle; LSB (lower sideband) suffers from sloppy bass, although both MAY suffer from a bit of "Donald Duck" sound. RTTY is best with classic Collins or Hammerlund gear.
 I also understand there are some noble experiments with Moonbounce which have already surpassed Universal serial buss in terms of reliability.


----------



## FumblingFoo

musickid said:


> HELP NEEDED....
> 
> My budget stretches to gumby multibit and a decent usb cable from imac to gumby. or metrum musette r2r dac plus a mutec 1.2 dac bridge for usb to spdif conversion. i will have no more funds to add tweaks to a gumby afterwards so buy now experiment later is not an option. gumby is very attractive as i know schitt sound from a modi multibit i had earlier. musette also good but in addition has galvanic isolation on coax. i know this is the schitt thread but impartial advice based on above would be greatly received. my mutec 1.2 arrives monday so i have 1 day to decide whether to return it or not.
> cheers mk.


 
  
 I own both a Bifrost Uber (probably around $500) and a v850 @ $1650, and honestly I can hear zero difference between it and the v850 (they both sounded flawless). So even the Bifrost Uber is damn good. I'm sure the gumby is even better if the difference is audible. You get balanced out with the gumby as opposed to the bifrost.


----------



## musickid

1) if gumby is properly grounded as has been said earlier i have been told that it therefore does not need galvanic isolation tweaks or improvements for the various inputs is this 100 percent true?
  
  
 2) if so does that mean i can just use a quality usb cable from my imac to gumby and not worry about isolators, regens or the like in the safe knowledge that nasty "computer noise" and stray currents etc will not enter gumby from the computer without sacrificing sound quality?
  
 3) a quality usb cable from imac  to gumby would be the simplest solution but not at expense of above.
  
 thanks to all mk.


----------



## winders

musickid said:


> 1) if gumby is properly grounded as has been said earlier i have been told that it therefore does not need galvanic isolation tweaks or improvements for the various inputs is this 100 percent true?
> 
> 
> 2) if so does that mean i can just use a quality usb cable from my imac to gumby and not worry about isolators, regens or the like in the safe knowledge that nasty "computer noise" and stray currents etc will not enter gumby from the computer without sacrificing sound quality?
> ...


 

 It's a lot more complicated that that!
  
 A lot of people would say all you need any old USB cable connected to your Gumby and all will be just fine. And for many people it probably is. There is just too much anecdotal evidence out there from audiophiles that suggests it helps to do more than that. Galvanic isolation from the USB bus on the computer seems to help a lot as people who use the Intona High Speed USB Isolator will attest. Some people even add a the UpTone Audio Regen or Wyred4Sound Recovery after that to correct the USB signal before it gets to the DAC. Others will use a USB to SPDIF Coax DDC to feed the SPDIF port on the DAC which appears to be better than the USB port on many DACs.
  
 I would suggest starting with USB if that is all you have now. Then, if you want, you try some other add ons to see if you can get the sound better to your ear.


----------



## musickid

thanks winders,
  
 what do you think of my post above regarding musette vs gumby. if you went with a ddc to coax on gumby how do you get around the fact that gumby is not galv. isol. on coax and as far as i can tell is ddc with galv.isol. a solution here or does that still leave coax input on gumby unisolated?


----------



## winders

Is the Metrum Musette galvanically isolated on the SPDIF coax port? I doubt it. One of the good points of a quality USB>SPDIF DDC is that they provide some level of galvanic isolation. 
  
 Of course Gumby is "properly grounded" and that has nothing to do with galvanic isolation.


----------



## StanD

baldr said:


> I didn't properly express that USB (upper sideband, NOT Universal Serial buss) has the sparkle; LSB (lower sideband) suffers from sloppy bass, although both MAY suffer from a bit of "Donald Duck" sound. RTTY is best with classic Collins or Hammerlund gear.
> I also understand there are some noble experiments with Moonbounce which have already surpassed Universal serial buss in terms of reliability.


 

 There's always DSB with a wider soundstage.
 I still have an ICOM R71A, the damn thing has it's firmware in a battery backed up CMOS RAM and we know what happened to that over the years. I had put in the Crystal filters and other options. I understand that someone makes a replacement board with the firmware, I think I'll get that, if it's still available.


----------



## musickid

schitt direct told me that if its properly grounded there is no need for galvanic isolation. learning fast i hope! i am leaning towards gumby but im having to reeducate myself as to the wonders of high end audio with just these forums to lean on.


----------



## winders

Galvanic isolation is one of those things I said was complicated. Some people think it makes a difference while others don't.


----------



## musickid

now wired for sound dac1 vs2 or dac2 with recovery tweak vs metrum musette with mutec 1.2 bridge ddc or gumby with straight usb to imac are my choices. i have till monday. i don't know if this is getting better or worse. my finances are tied down for a long while afterwards i need the final solution. lol earmaxpro tube amp i have with dt880 600ohm


----------



## Jimster480

musickid said:


> now wired for sound dac1 vs2 or dac2 with recovery tweak vs metrum musette with mutec 1.2 bridge ddc or gumby with straight usb to imac are my choices. i have till monday. i don't know if this is getting better or worse. my finances are tied down for a long while afterwards i need the final solution. lol earmaxpro tube amp i have with dt880 600ohm


 

 do you have both?


----------



## vvar10ck

I've got Shiit Audio Gungnir Multibit and Mjolnir-2 paired via XLR. It's sounds really great with my AudioZenith Pmx2!


----------



## manpowre

winders said:


> Galvanic isolation is one of those things I said was complicated. Some people think it makes a difference while others don't.


 
  
 I use the Intona USB separator, it makes a difference in sound stage and sets it "right" for some reason with Yggdrasil. I do believe all the bits are transferred, but somehow the elctronics in the DAC gets impacted by the USB noise or even the USB 5 volt power leads. 
 It also worked the same way on the Oppo HA-1. 
 The only dac's Ive tried where I didnt hear a difference was with Hegel HD25 and HD30, as they got built in galvanization/usb separation.


----------



## winders

manpowre said:


> I use the Intona USB separator, it makes a difference in sound stage and sets it "right" for some reason with Yggdrasil. I do believe all the bits are transferred, but somehow the elctronics in the DAC gets impacted by the USB noise or even the USB 5 volt power leads.
> It also worked the same way on the Oppo HA-1.
> The only dac's Ive tried where I didnt hear a difference was with Hegel HD25 and HD30, as they got built in galvanization/usb separation.


 

 I don't doubt it. My first step toward galvanic isolation is a Singxer F-1 USB>SPDIF coax DDC. I also plan on getting Intona type device in the near future.
  
 People like to say digital is digital. But it's not that simple. The cable we use is analog by nature. The chips on either side encode and decode what is effectively an analog signal on the wire. Noise and interference effect the signal and the work the chips on the receiving have to deal with.This is why better cable sound better.
  
 Yggy is on my radar. How do you like your?


----------



## manpowre

winders said:


> People like to say digital is digital. But it's not that simple. The cable we use is analog by nature. The chips on either side encode and decode what is effectively an analog signal on the wire. Noise and interference effect the signal and the work the chips on the receiving have to deal with.This is why better cable sound better.
> 
> Yggy is on my radar. How do you like your?


 
  
 Actually, its not the cable, its the possibility to time the packets in the best way. The usb cables within the spec transferrs the bits correctly. However there is +/- 5v leads on usb that connects the dac and the PC/Mac together with normal 5v power. PC/Mac is a general purpose system and all sorts of interference happens on the power leads. The timing mechanism is not built to be audiophile either, even the DAC is in control of the master clock with USB, the machine still have to time the packets accordingly. The Intona unit has a high end oscillator to time the packets on the DAC side.
  
 I am happy with the Yggdrasil, its become a musical instrument where I dont notice it at all. It does its job very well. 99.9% of the tracks I play have a noice floor way within 21 bits which the Yggdrasil provides. Its fast with drums, amazingly fast in fact. Its relaxed with attacks where I can hear the hands on guitars plock the note before the note tone plays. Its been constant on since I got it 8 months ago. Im considering the Freya as a preamp to play with tubes and SS preamplification as I heard others had great success with this.


----------



## winders

The cable does make a difference because there are no bits on the cable. Again, it is effectively an analog cable. The signal on the cable can be affected by many things both outside the system and inside the system. A better cable can reduce or eliminate some of these effects.
  
 I am glad to hear you like your Yggy. It's on my list!


----------



## StanD

winders said:


> The cable does make a difference because there are no bits on the cable. Again, it is effectively an analog cable. The signal on the cable can be affected by many things both outside the system and inside the system. A better cable can reduce or eliminate some of these effects.
> 
> I am glad to hear you like your Yggy. It's on my list!


 

 Due to the way zeros and ones are detected it would take a large degradation of the signal to cause problems, it is very unlikely that a decent cable would cause this.


----------



## manpowre

winders said:


> The cable does make a difference because there are no bits on the cable. Again, it is effectively an analog cable. The signal on the cable can be affected by many things both outside the system and inside the system. A better cable can reduce or eliminate some of these effects.
> 
> I am glad to hear you like your Yggy. It's on my list!


 
  
 I can tell you this, I can measure a difference in FFT spectrum of 20hz, 100hz, 1000hz, 8khz, 15khz, 20khz test tones being sent through the cable without the Intona vs connecting the Intona and using a similar cable on other side !  (using my Yggdrasil as dac, also same result with Oppo HA-1). (hegel HD25 and HD30 did not have a FFT spectrum difference with or without the intona unit).
  
 What I can NOT measure is a difference in FFT spectrum with a high end cable that cost 500 dollars (I tested the Nordost USB cable 2) against my 20 dollars USB cables. However, once the Intona unit got connected with the Nordost cable, I clearly saw a difference in FFT spectrum. 
  
 Neither coud I hear a difference between the soundstage with the expencive USB cable without the Intona vs my 20 dollar cable. But connecting the Intona, the soundstage clearly changes and adjusts to be more correct with and without the 500 dollar USB cable.
  
 Believe me, there is nothing outside the system affecting the cable itself that can be audible ! There is only 4 factors that can impact the sound quality through that USB cable:
  - Packets sent / dropped with a bad cable (were not talking about this here, different issue)
  - +/- 5V leads noise from host computer connected to the DAC
  - Packet sync from DAC not aligned correctly from host computer
  - Possible DAC being affected by the +/- 5v power/noise
  
 Isolating the +/- 5V is step 1. USB to SPDIF fixes this, or galvanized USB isolation - Intona goes after this.
  
 Packet sync is why USB to SPDIF converters have great success and is audible as the conversion uses a high end oscillator to time the packets - same as what the Intona does on USB really but to a different degree in conjunction with the DAC's timing signal.
  
 Possible dac being affected by the +/-5v noise or ground issues the usb to spdif converters sorts out also the Intona fixes this. The only noise being created with the Intona connected is coming from the DAC itself!
  
 Some people claim that adding usb to spdif conversion after the Intona towards the DAC is making better soundstage. This can only happen if the usb to spdif converter uses a better and more accurate oscillator than the Intona ! I have seen a product that does this to a great degree and that is the Berkely USB to SPDIF conversion module which skips the whole USB input on the DAC entirely, and uses the best oscillator to time the packets for the DAC - basically the Berkeley module is responsible for the timing of the digital domain.
  
 Some people claim that adding USB noise reduction unit like the jitterbug after the Intona unit and before the intona unit towards the DAC is changing soundstage. This can only happen as the jitterbug is according to the product specification reducing noise on both data lines and vbus (+/-5v leads). Intona does this too, but I havent been able to FFT measure this as I dont own a jitterbug myself.
  
 There are some theories about the digital sample being sent on analogue waveform is not constructed correctly from the host machine, and might affect the DAC. Guess what - Intona goes after this too according to their product page and reconstructs that digital sample after the galvanization being powered by the DAC itself.
  
 Red this interesting review:
 http://www.audiostream.com/content/intona-technology-usb-20-high-speed-isolator
  
 Sorry for a long post here.


----------



## musickid

Both gumby and mimby have 2vrms out from specs. however would you notice that gumby might result in a louder volume due to its more powerful internal power supplies etc when feeding a small otl tube amp like my earmax pro? could a spdif convertor have the same effect or does 2v out mean 2v out regardless of dacs internal make up? is it important for a ddc to have galvanic isolation on its spdif output. finally if anyone has impressions of mimby vs gumby especially detail retrieval that would be great.


----------



## winders

manpowre said:


> I can tell you this, I can measure a difference in FFT spectrum of 20hz, 100hz, 1000hz, 8khz, 15khz, 20khz test tones being sent through the cable without the Intona vs connecting the Intona and using a similar cable on other side !  (using my Yggdrasil as dac, also same result with Oppo HA-1). (hegel HD25 and HD30 did not have a FFT spectrum difference with or without the intona unit).
> 
> What I can NOT measure is a difference in FFT spectrum with a high end cable that cost 500 dollars (I tested the Nordost USB cable 2) against my 20 dollars USB cables. However, once the Intona unit got connected with the Nordost cable, I clearly saw a difference in FFT spectrum.
> 
> ...


 
  
 https://uptoneaudio.com/pages/j-swenson-tech-corner


----------



## StanD

musickid said:


> Both gumby and mimby have 2vrms out from specs. however would you notice that gumby might result in a louder volume due to its more powerful internal power supplies etc when feeding a small otl tube amp like my earmax pro? could a spdif convertor have the same effect or does 2v out mean 2v out regardless of dacs internal make up? is it important for a ddc to have galvanic isolation on its spdif output. finally if anyone has impressions of mimby vs gumby especially detail retrieval that would be great.


 
 SPDIF is in the digital flow of data and doesn't affect the numbers, the analog output comes later so the output level should not be affected. If you are looking at optical (not coax) then galvanic isolation is not necessary as it uses light not electrical connectivity.


----------



## Mindcrime1

Hey Guys,
I am looking for suggestions. I have been bitten by the headphone bug, I have HD598 SE, P7 Wireless (that I used wired lol) , Opus #1. I would like to step things up with an amp. I was looking at getting a Modi/Magni, but I am not sure I need a DAC? What do you guys think? Please forgive me, I am still a noob Lol 
Thanks!


----------



## Left Channel

mindcrime1 said:


> Hey Guys,
> I am looking for suggestions. I have been bitten by the headphone bug, I have HD598 SE, P7 Wireless (that I used wired lol) , Opus #1. I would like to step things up with an amp. I was looking at getting a Modi/Magni, but I am not sure I need a DAC? What do you guys think? Please forgive me, I am still a noob Lol
> Thanks!


 

 This should help: 
Settle a discussion: When do you need a DAC?
  
 Modi & Magni are a great way to start, and may be all some of us will ever need. All we'll ever need in the way of a DAC and amp, I mean.


----------



## musickid

need to double check this again as i cannot audition gumby prior to purchase in the UK.
  
 both gunjnir multibit and modi multibit output 2v rms single ended. would the gunjnir mb result in a louder volume from a smallish tube amp like earmax pro due to having more powerful internal power supply etc than modi mb? i need to check gumby is ok with my amp before i take the plunge. the modi mb i had before with 2vrms out performed fine with my amp


----------



## Mindcrime1

Look what I found on CL


----------



## ChinoSon

enjoy her!! she's a good time bro lol


----------



## Jimster480

mindcrime1 said:


> Hey Guys,
> I am looking for suggestions. I have been bitten by the headphone bug, I have HD598 SE, P7 Wireless (that I used wired lol) , Opus #1. I would like to step things up with an amp. I was looking at getting a Modi/Magni, but I am not sure I need a DAC? What do you guys think? Please forgive me, I am still a noob Lol
> Thanks!


 

 This really depends on what you are using to power them right now.


----------



## Mindcrime1

jimster480 said:


> This really depends on what you are using to power them right now.




I have been using the Opus ... no amp ... imjust picked up a Valhalla2 of craiglist...


----------



## Mindcrime1

chinoson said:


> enjoy her!! she's a good time bro lol




I am not sure how I lived without her! Damn it sounds nice... having a bit of a hum though, its really noticeable when switching tracks..


----------



## Jimster480

mindcrime1 said:


> I have been using the Opus ... no amp ... imjust picked up a Valhalla2 of craiglist...


 

 Well then grab a Fulla 2 or a Modi or a Modi Multibit.

 What is your budget? There are many options especially once you have an Amp.


----------



## Mindcrime1

jimster480 said:


> Well then grab a Fulla 2 or a Modi or a Modi Multibit.
> 
> 
> What is your budget? There are many options especially once you have an Amp.




250 to 350ish


----------



## Jimster480

mindcrime1 said:


> 250 to 350ish


 

 What will your source be?
 What outputs does your source have?


----------



## Mindcrime1

jimster480 said:


> What will your source be?
> 
> What outputs does your source have?



Opus1, it has balanced out, and regular 3.5 out


----------



## Jimster480

mindcrime1 said:


> Opus1, it has balanced out, and regular 3.5 out


 

 Ah its a DAP, I just googled it.
  
 So that is all you use for music?

 Well then you can probably just get away with an Amp as you can't really feed a DAC with a DAP unless its has some SPDIF out.


----------



## Mindcrime1

I was already thinking the amp alone would domthe trick. For now. Lol


----------



## bigro

mindcrime1 said:


> I am not sure how I lived without her! Damn it sounds nice... having a bit of a hum though, its really noticeable when switching tracks..


 
 What tubes do you have in there?  Also It could be the power source or other things around it.


----------



## Mindcrime1

bigro said:


> What tubes do you have in there?  Also It could be the power source or other things around it.


 

 I am guessing it is the power source I was using... I set it up for a quick demo and had it plugged into a cheap power strip. But damn... she sounds sweet


----------



## alota

tomorrow i will receive(i hope)my first schiit: jotunheim with dac card


----------



## Jimster480

alota said:


> tomorrow i will receive(i hope)my first schiit: jotunheim with dac card


 

 What made you choose that one?
 I looked at it but it didn't make much sense to me when I could pick a Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber or pay a bit more for a Asguard.


----------



## Pahani

jimster480 said:


> What made you choose that one?
> I looked at it but it didn't make much sense to me when I could pick a Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber or pay a bit more for a Asguard.


 
 Could be the convenience of an all-in-one unit. Or possibly planning on using XLR connections.
  
 The ability to use XLR in the future is why I personally upgraded to Jotunheim from Magni 2 Uber. But if you never plan to......yeah, either of those 2 choices would be good.


----------



## alota

jimster480 said:


> What made you choose that one?
> 
> I looked at it but it didn't make much sense to me when I could pick a Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber or pay a bit more for a Asguard.



Just because i had,in the past, separate components and more headphones at the same time and today i'm looking for a simple and friendly system but with some quality.
Otherwise i'm tired to find the holy graal


----------



## Jimster480

alota said:


> Just because i had,in the past, separate components and more headphones at the same time and today i'm looking for a simple and friendly system but with some quality.
> Otherwise i'm tired to find the holy graal


 

 I wonder if they are going to bring the Multibit to that product aswell.
  


pahani said:


> Could be the convenience of an all-in-one unit. Or possibly planning on using XLR connections.
> 
> The ability to use XLR in the future is why I personally upgraded to Jotunheim from Magni 2 Uber. But if you never plan to......yeah, either of those 2 choices would be good.


 

 True if you need XLR it makes sense.


----------



## scottcriswell

jimster480 said:


> I wonder if they are going to bring the Multibit to that product aswell.


 
  
 You never know, but I imagine it'll be quite difficult to fit a balanced multibit setup onto a dac card the size of the one in the Joty.  Not to say that something being difficult has stopped Schiit in the past, but I would be very surprised.  I run a Modi Multibit into my Jotunheim.


----------



## Jimster480

scottcriswell said:


> You never know, but I imagine it'll be quite difficult to fit a balanced multibit setup onto a dac card the size of the one in the Joty.  Not to say that something being difficult has stopped Schiit in the past, but I would be very surprised.  I run a Modi Multibit into my Jotunheim.


 

 Well the chip itself isn't too big, I think they can do it with some clever engineering


----------



## Letmebefrank

jimster480 said:


> Well the chip itself isn't too big, I think they can do it with some clever engineering




Yeah but it would have to be balanced so probably 1.5x the size of the modi multibit is the smallest you could make a balanced multibit dac, and that wouldn't fit inside the Jot. Even 1 Mimby won't fit inside the Jot


----------



## john777

jimster480 said:


> Well the chip itself isn't too big, I think they can do it with some clever engineering




What do Schiit know about clever engineering? Oh yes, they wrote the new chapters of the book...


----------



## Jimster480

john777 said:


> What do Schiit know about clever engineering? Oh yes, they wrote the new chapters of the book...


 

 Well from what I have read they seem to have done some great work so far, and one of their guys is an audio legend so.... from all the research I've done they seem to be one of the few brands actually innovating and not charging an arm and a leg for the same thing over and over again.


----------



## john777

jimster480 said:


> Well from what I have read they seem to have done some great work so far, and one of their guys is an audio legend so.... from all the research I've done they seem to be one of the few brands actually innovating and not charging an arm and a leg for the same thing over and over again.




My Lyr is the only piece of Schiit I own, but it has been a wonderful piece of equipment to have and use powering HE500s first and then HE1000v2s lately. Did a little tube-rolling with socket savers installed and never missed a beat. Will be selling it soon though, sadly, as I have replaced it with SS amp more suited to my overall system. Someone will get a good deal.


----------



## Jimster480

john777 said:


> My Lyr is the only piece of Schiit I own, but it has been a wonderful piece of equipment to have and use powering HE500s first and then HE1000v2s lately. Did a little tube-rolling with socket savers installed and never missed a beat. Will be selling it soon though, sadly, as I have replaced it with SS amp more suited to my overall system. Someone will get a good deal.


 

 What Amp did you replace it with?


----------



## alota

Multibit for jotenheim was big fact but no space in the interior and i think that the main section does not support the power demanded for a dsp sharc and dacs.a fpga solution chord style?
In every case, the akm 4490 is a good chip


----------



## MWSVette

alota said:


> Multibit for jotenheim was big fact but no space in the interior and i think that the main section does not support the power demanded for a dsp sharc and dacs.a fpga solution chord style?
> *In every case, the akm 4490 is a good chip*


 
 Yes it is.  And it has two of them...


----------



## john777

jimster480 said:


> What Amp did you replace it with?




Moved to PM.


----------



## iAudio365

Ok headfi tech wizards, I have a noob question regarding amps to go with my mojo and ether flow / AEON's (when I get them) so here goes...

I have a mojo, love it, have an awesome set of norne draug 2 audio balanced cables being made and am currently looking for a balanced amp with a smaller footprint for my desk/pc setup I'm in somewhat of a conumdrum deciding bewteen Cavalli LC or the Schiit Jotunheim.

I know both these amps offer balanced, But at some stage I will want to hook up speakers for my pc so would jotunheim be the better pic?

Does the jotunheim go good together with the mojo and my ether flows/AEON's (when I get them)?

I just always here LC/mojo combo is a great mix etc but not so much on the jotunheim/mojo combo.

And lastly "Passive Phono" is the option I would pic if I wanted to hook speakers up as an option down the track one day? I know this is whats referred to as a "pre amp" i think that's right? So I will not need a seperate amp on top of this to power speakers etc?

I will just be able to hook speakers up to the jotunheim even though it will be connected to mojo and just run the speakers no issues? Or will i need to disconnect my mojo and plug the jotunheim into my pc seperatly for this to work?

Will the balanced option on the jotunheim work with the mojo like it does with the cavalli LC? 

Currently I just have my mojo always plugged into my pc via usb for power and use audio optical cable for the sound output direct from the supreme fx sound card thats on my asus rog motherboard if this info is any help at all.

Again I appologise for so many noob questions, but this is my first foray into blanced set up that will also give me the ability to run speakers for gaming or music listening when I don't feel like using headphones.

Any helpfull info would be so greatly appreciated. I just want to do it once and do it all right the first time.

Thanks so much again for any help this amazing community can provide.

Cheers,


----------



## bigro

iaudio365 said:


> Ok headfi tech wizards, I have a noob question regarding amps to go with my mojo and ether flow / AEON's (when I get them) so here goes...
> 
> I have a mojo, love it, have an awesome set of norne draug 2 audio balanced cables being made and am currently looking for a balanced amp with a smaller footprint for my desk/pc setup I'm in somewhat of a conumdrum deciding bewteen Cavalli LC or the Schiit Jotunheim.
> 
> ...


 
 The Jotunthiem and Mjolnir are Both Headphone amp's. While the Jotunheim can have a Input card added it is still mainly an amp. Do you currently have a Jotunhiem going to a Mojo? Also a Phono Card is used for a Turntable Input not speaker output. For adding speakers Both Amps have the same Balanced And Single ended outputs, no cards needed.  Are you looking for a DAC to Pair with your Mojo?


----------



## iAudio365

bigro said:


> The Jotunthiem and Mjolnir are Both Headphone amp's. While the Jotunheim can have a Input card added it is still mainly an amp. Do you currently have a Jotunhiem going to a Mojo? Also a Phono Card is used for a Turntable Input not speaker output. For adding speakers Both Amps have the same Balanced And Single ended outputs, no cards needed.  Are you looking for a DAC to Pair with your Mojo?




I already have a mojo, I'm looking at the jotunheim to purchase to pair with mojo as my balanced amp.

Will it be able to still give me a balanced output like the Cavalli LC would if paired with the mojo? I beleive the cavalli has some special tech in ot thag converst the se to se input to balanced from the mojo if this makes any sense at all.


----------



## bigro

iaudio365 said:


> I already have a mojo, I'm looking at the jotunheim to purchase to pair with mojo as my balanced amp.
> 
> Will it be able to still give me a balanced output like the Cavalli LC would if paired with the mojo? I beleive the cavalli has some special tech in ot thag converst the se to se input to balanced from the mojo if this makes any sense at all.


 

 When you say Mojo are you talking about the Chord Mojo?


----------



## alota

iaudio365 said:


> I already have a mojo, I'm looking at the jotunheim to purchase to pair with mojo as my balanced amp.
> 
> Will it be able to still give me a balanced output like the Cavalli LC would if paired with the mojo? I beleive the cavalli has some special tech in ot thag converst the se to se input to balanced from the mojo if this makes any sense at all.


 
 i read from a member had the mojo and jotunheim with dac at the same time; he said that the difference between jot with internal dac and mojo wired to jot was little.
 but since be opinion not mine, i don´t put my hand on fire


----------



## zabzaf

iaudio365 said:


> I already have a mojo, I'm looking at the jotunheim to purchase to pair with mojo as my balanced amp.
> 
> Will it be able to still give me a balanced output like the Cavalli LC would if paired with the mojo? I beleive the cavalli has some special tech in ot thag converst the se to se input to balanced from the mojo if this makes any sense at all.




If you're talking about Chord Mojo, which I believe you are, it's output is SE only and will only feed your amp SE, not balanced. You will need to look at a purely balanced DAC option if you want to go balanced into a Jotunheim. Such as Yggy, Gumby or even the DAC card for the Jotunheim...if staying in the Schiit family.


----------



## alota

I asked to some people if jotunheim works in balanced mod with unbalanced dac and the answer is yes. many people uses Jotunheim with bifrost or modi


----------



## iAudio365

zabzaf said:


> If you're talking about Chord Mojo, which I believe you are, it's output is SE only and will only feed your amp SE, not balanced. You will need to look at a purely balanced DAC option if you want to go balanced into a Jotunheim. Such as Yggy, Gumby or even the DAC card for the Jotunheim...if staying in the Schiit family.




Ahh ok, so it won't convert the signal to allow a balanced output like the cavalli liquid carbon does when using the mojo as the dac. Thats a bummer.


----------



## bigro

alota said:


> I asked to some people if jotunheim works in balanced mod with unbalanced dac and the answer is yes. many people uses Jotunheim with bifrost or modi


 

 And the Plot thickens, This is not clear on the schiit site. I was just looking.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Jotunheim will output a balanced signal through its front 4 pin xlr regardless of input. That is the nature of the unique pivot point topology inside the Jotunheim. I have Mimby going to Jotunheim via rca, and Jotunheim to hd650 via 4pin xlr.


----------



## zabzaf

iaudio365 said:


> Ahh ok, so it won't convert the signal to allow a balanced output like the cavalli liquid carbon does when using the mojo as the dac. Thats a bummer.




The output will leave the amp balanced but if the incoming signal is not balanced, I would ask what is the point? Since Jotunheim is balanced from input to output, I would argue that feeding it a SE signal is selling its capabilities short. Take advantage of its fully balanced capabilities and feed it a balanced signal. My opinion, anyway.


----------



## Eric510

Hey everyone - I've got a rather specific question. I've been agonizing over making this move and I might need a little bit of enabling/encouragement from ya's to finally do it.  Anyone out there with an LCD4 make the jump from a Bifrost Multibit/Lyr 2 stack to a Gungnir Multibit/Mjolnir 2 stack? I wanna go balanced and, this the direction I've been thinking of going in. Thoughts?


----------



## alota

zabzaf said:


> The output will leave the amp balanced but if the incoming signal is not balanced, I would ask what is the point? Since Jotunheim is balanced from input to output, I would argue that feeding it a SE signal is selling its capabilities short. Take advantage of its fully balanced capabilities and feed it a balanced signal. My opinion, anyway.


 
 of course you´re right. if you have a balanced source better but it´s more one possibility in more offered by the Jot.
 i had bal. amplfier that worked only with balanced source


----------



## zabzaf

alota said:


> of course you´re right. if you have a balanced source better but it´s more one possibility in more offered by the Jot.
> i had bal. amplfier that worked only with balanced source




Got it. Out of curiosity, which amp only accepted a balanced input?


----------



## alota

zabzaf said:


> Got it. Out of curiosity, which amp only accepted a balanced input?


 
 little-dot mkVI, first release, my balanced beta-22(a little complicated to put bal/se)


----------



## Jimster480

alota said:


> Multibit for jotenheim was big fact but no space in the interior and i think that the main section does not support the power demanded for a dsp sharc and dacs.a fpga solution chord style?
> In every case, the akm 4490 is a good chip


 

 Yea I'm sure you are right abotu that.
  
 It seems that the AKM DAC's are mostly used by Denon/Onkyo/JVC, etc....
 Their main customers seem to be Japanese audio brands, which makes sense considering its a japanese brand.
  
 In which case I probably have alot of experience with the sounds they make since I have a JVC head unit in one of my cars and 2 Denon Heos.
  
 Whereas it seems that TI sells to lots of set top box companies and car audio mfg (some OEM's).... either way I'm anxious for my Fulla2 to arrive so I can hear how it sounds 

 Its in the mail and should be arriving in a few hours.


----------



## alota

Akm 4490 is used in high-end equipment too. I never tried multibit dacs and i believe that sound really good but the principal thing is the dac board of.jot costs only 100 dollars so the.objective is quality at low price


----------



## Jimster480

alota said:


> Akm 4490 is used in high-end equipment too. I never tried multibit dacs and i believe that sound really good but the principal thing is the dac board of.jot costs only 100 dollars so the.objective is quality at low price


 
  
 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/akm-semiconductor-inc/AK4490EQ/974-1060-1-ND/4918895
  
 If I knew all the chips in there I could look them all up but still.
  
 That is how there is money to be made and they can still build in the USA.
  
 Since IC costs are quite low these days so most of the cost is in labor and R&D.


----------



## musickid

i have an earmaxpro small tube amp with dt880 cans. my amp has no balanced option. if i buy a gumby multibit would i be neglecting its full potential by not having gear to extract balanced performance from gumby. its looking like an end game solution for me so upgrading to balanced cans and amp is not really an option. some say not much difference from SE to balanced and some seem to swear by balanced. cheers mk


----------



## winders

musickid said:


> i have an earmaxpro small tube amp with dt880 cans. my amp has no balanced option. if i buy a gumby multibit would i be neglecting its full potential by not having gear to extract balanced performance from gumby. its looking like an end game solution for me so upgrading to balanced cans and amp is not really an option. some say not much difference from SE to balanced and some seem to swear by balanced. cheers mk


 

 You have no worries here. The single ended outputs are internally summed. They are just as good as the balanced outputs.


----------



## musickid

hi Winders,
  
 When you say SE summed and that being just as good as balanced could you give me some detail here as i don't really understand these terms. could you explain why SE is as good as balanced?  it is very encouraging news though!! learning fast


----------



## winders

Well, I fibbed a bit. XLR is "better". But using the single ended outputs is fine. Let's put it this way, if Gumby had been designed with SE outputs only, those outputs would be no better than the SE outputs Gumby has now. Just pretend the XLR outputs aren't there and you will be fine. If you ever need them, they are there.
  
 I can't tell you how Schiit summed the XLR output signals to get the SE outputs. But, rest assured, they did it the best way they could.


----------



## musickid

another thing ive read reports that are so adamant that when placing a modi mb next to gumby mb they would challenge anyone to notice the different in an a/b blind listening test. i could understand this from bimby mb to gumby mb but from modi mb to gumby??? rather than just dismissing this is there any real truth in it. i think they were using a jotenheim amp for the test. my budget of 1250 could buy a metrum musette r2r dac with a really good spdif convertor for the same price as a gumby. musette vs gumby seems to be marginal too. the final solution is not straightforward!! modi mb uses 1 r2r dac gumby uses 4 so hard to believe.


----------



## winders

musickid,
  
 There are about a trillion combinations of stuff out there. You have been all over multiple forums asking these same questions for months. It's probably time for you to get decisive!
  
 Is Mimby as good as Gumby? No way. Mimby is great but not that great. If you want a Musette get a Musette!


----------



## musickid

i ordered a mutec 1.2 dac bridge for an anticipated musette purchase then i returned it in favour of the real deal gumby mb. but yes the combos seem endless and this will be my last audio purchase for a long while so i just want the best outcome. cheers mk


----------



## Jimster480

musickid said:


> i ordered a mutec 1.2 dac bridge for an anticipated musette purchase then i returned it in favour of the real deal gumby mb. but yes the combos seem endless and this will be my last audio purchase for a long while so i just want the best outcome. cheers mk


 

 What amp are you using with that?

 I'm debating on what setup to buy for my desktop still.
  
 I really don't know what to get for the AMP.
  
 Since I have mostly low power stuff I really wonder if Magni 2 Uber is all I need.... Although some people said that Magni 2 doesn't do well with low power headphones....
 So then I am looking at an O2, but the layout of the O2 is just horrible with the input and output both in the front even on the desktop versions (from both JDS & Mayflower)...
  
 So then I am thinking about asgard 2, but then I read that its a very warm sounding amp and it has feedback on low gain?
  
 I just want a amp to run low impedance stuff with, I doubt I'll ever buy any really heavy cans...
 And I want an amp with a pass-through because later on I will connect some nice speakers to it.


----------



## musickid

if you want to be transported into a different world and category of otl tube amps check the earmaxpro. youll need high impedence headphones like beyer dt880 600's though. beyers sell for just 175£ so you can use the difference on the amp which sells for 699£ and then you will find yourself in real headfi audiophile world. those things you mention are just entry level and we all need to start to somewhere i suppose. good luck


----------



## Jimster480

musickid said:


> if you want to be transported into a different world and category of otl tube amps check the earmaxpro. youll need high impedence headphones like beyer dt880 600's though. beyers sell for just 175£ so you can use the difference on the amp which sells for 699£ and then you will find yourself in real headfi audiophile world. those things you mention are just entry level and we all need to start to somewhere i suppose. good luck


 

 Nah I wouldn't go that far haha I just want a nice setup for my listening all day every day while I work basically.


----------



## musickid

earmax pro is every transportable and small


----------



## TAsme

Hey guys i have got a question:
  
 Ive got the following Setup:
  
 Rega Turntable into a PreAmp into the Lyr 2. Headphones are Sennheiser HD800.
  
 I've got 2 questions:
  
 1) The Lyr2 only has 1 input section. I would love to connect my DAP (Onkyo DP-X1a) to the Lyr 2, but i always have to disconnect the RCA cables coming from the PreAmp. Is there smarter way? Or would i Need to buy e.g. a Ragnarök therefore?
  
 2) In case I get myself a Ragnarök: Would I be able to use the balanced function when connected to my Onkyo DP-X1a?
  
 Thanks for your help guys!
  
 Best regards,
  
 Steve


----------



## sheldaze

tasme said:


> Hey guys i have got a question:
> 
> Ive got the following Setup:
> 
> ...


 
 Rag will give you multiple inputs, including balanced (might be tricky to get balanced from a DAP - most likely to involve a DAP to 4-pin XLR, followed by a 4-pin to dual 3-pin XLR cabling).
  
 I, however, would recommend you buy the Schiit SYS for $49, and continue to use your Lyr 2:
  
http://schiit.com/products/sys


----------



## MWSVette

tasme said:


> Hey guys i have got a question:
> 
> Ive got the following Setup:
> 
> ...


 
 I use these...
  
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009MFRW0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 to add a second input on my Lyr...


----------



## RickB

tasme said:


> Hey guys i have got a question:
> 
> Ive got the following Setup:
> 
> ...


 
 I used to use this when I had need of it.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008BMLXAU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## RiflemanFirst

New happy owner of my first piece of Schiit here. I've had my Fulla 2 for a few days now and it has replaced the old X-Fi sound card (with crappy drivers and noise interference from my video card) that was in my desktop gaming computer. It sounds great with my HD598s and Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers.


----------



## MWSVette

riflemanfirst said:


> New happy owner of my first piece of Schiit here. I've had my Fulla 2 for a few days now and it has replaced the old X-Fi sound card (with crappy drivers and noise interference from my video card) that was in my desktop gaming computer. It sounds great with my HD598s and Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers.


 
 Welcome to the Schiit club.
  
 Enjoy your new toy...


----------



## suziegon

​I was looking for a good solid state all-rounder for my desktop and settled on the Jotunheim (with the dac). It's sexy, the perfect size, and sounds great. So happy with it! And it doubles as a hand warmer when my fingers are freezing at my desk


----------



## Pahani

suziegon said:


> ​I was looking for a good solid state all-rounder for my desktop and settled on the Jotunheim (with the dac). It's sexy, the perfect size, and sounds great. So happy with it! And it doubles as a hand warmer when my fingers are freezing at my desk


 
 Congrats on Jot!
  
 I just picked up a used Stax SRM-1 Mk2 amp. Now THAT'S much more toasty than my Jot!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

For all of our products that use wall-warts, we're proud to introduce a multi-outlet floor wart that might simplify your AC power needs: http://schiit.com/products/floor-wart


----------



## Jimster480

jason stoddard said:


> For all of our products that use wall-warts, we're proud to introduce a multi-outlet floor wart that might simplify your AC power needs: http://schiit.com/products/floor-wart


 

 thats a pretty cool idea!
  
 Great price too, SMSL has one for their stack but its expensive (it also does AC->DC Linear conversion) and runs super hot.


----------



## suziegon

pahani said:


> Congrats on Jot!
> 
> I just picked up a used Stax SRM-1 Mk2 amp. Now THAT'S much more toasty than my Jot!


 

 ​Ooooooohhhhhhh... I wanna get my hands on some electrostats someday!


----------



## porkfried

+Gumby, Schiit stack getting pretty tall now


----------



## Jimster480

porkfried said:


> +Gumby, Schiit stack getting pretty tall now


 

 Holy crap


----------



## winders

porkfried said:


> +Gumby, Schiit stack getting pretty tall now


 

 Mine is certainly shorter:


----------



## porkfried

winders said:


> Mine is certainly shorter:


 
 But its very thick.


----------



## winders

porkfried said:


> But its very thick.


 
 I see what you did there!


----------



## Jimster480

winders said:


> Mine is certainly shorter:


 
 What schiit is on the top?


----------



## winders

jimster480 said:


> What schiit is on the top?


 

 That is my Mimby. Even with an Yggy I can't bring myself to sell it.


----------



## thyname

porkfried said:


> +Gumby, Schiit stack getting pretty tall now




Is it worth going from Bifrost Multibit to Gumby? Twice the price! Just for the Balanced connection?


----------



## Jimster480

winders said:


> That is my Mimby. Even with an Yggy I can't bring myself to sell it.


 
 Thats what I thought it was but I was just confused since you have a Yggy there lol
  
 I guess you feel that Mimby is worth the value.


----------



## winders

thyname said:


> Is it worth going from Bifrost Multibit to Gumby? Twice the price! Just for the Balanced connection?


 

 You get a heck of a lot more than a balanced input/output setup when going from Bimby to Gumby.


----------



## Exidrion

yeah What is the point of having both a gungnir and a bifrost both connected at the same time? am i missing something?


----------



## thyname

winders said:


> You get a heck of a lot more than a balanced input/output setup when going from Bimby to Gumby.




Naturally....

Such as what?


----------



## winders

jimster480 said:


> Thats what I thought it was but I was just confused since you have a Yggy there lol
> 
> I guess you feel that Mimby is worth the value.


 
  
 You should be more confused by porkfried's pile of Schiit. He has three multibit Schiit DACs in there!


----------



## Jimster480

winders said:


> You should be more confused by porkfried's pile of Schiit. He has three multibit Schiit DACs in there!


 
 I just went back to look, haha you are right there are 3 of them there!!!!!
  
 What


----------



## winders

thyname said:


> Naturally....
> 
> Such as what?


 

 How about 4 Analog Devices AD5781BRUZ chips instead of single Analog Devices AD5547CRUZ chip? You also get fully discrete JFET buffers. And a bunch of other changes I know nothing about....


----------



## winders

jimster480 said:


> I just went back to look, haha you are right there are 3 of them there!!!!!
> 
> What


 

 The only question I have is "Yggy + Mimby" greater than "Gumby + Bimby + Mimby"?


----------



## Jimster480

winders said:


> The only question I have is "Yggy + Mimby" greater than "Gumby + Bimby + Mimby"?


 

 I would say yes.
 Since you have what is rated to be one of the best DAC's available today if not the best one (by some peoples opinions).
 Everything else is irrelevant at that point in time lol


----------



## winders

jimster480 said:


> I would say yes.
> Since you have what is rated to be one of the best DAC's available today if not the best one (by some peoples opinions).
> Everything else is irrelevant at that point in time lol


 

 It was meant as a rhetorical question but I tend to agree with you!


----------



## Jimster480

Now if only I could get my Fulla 2 to stop with this popping.................................
  
 I'm contemplating sending it back and just getting the Modi Multibit idk...


----------



## winders

jimster480 said:


> Now if only I could get my Fulla 2 to stop with this popping.................................
> 
> I'm contemplating sending it back and just getting the Modi Multibit idk...


 

 I really enjoyed my Mimby/Vali 2 stack of Schiit!


----------



## Kn1nJa

jimster480 said:


> Now if only I could get my Fulla 2 to stop with this popping.................................
> 
> I'm contemplating sending it back and just getting the Modi Multibit idk...


 
 Have you tried contacting schiit support? They are pretty awesome and would get you taken care of.
  
 If you do decide to get a Mimby, you will not be disappointed. It is a seriously good little DAC.


----------



## Oklahoma

My stack of Schiit, or stacks at this point.


----------



## porkfried

jimster480 said:


> I just went back to look, haha you are right there are 3 of them there!!!!!
> 
> What


 
 I had all three dacs at the same time because,
 1. I just added Gumby
 2. I brought my work setup home for kicks
 3. I haven't sold the Bimby yet
 4. Its fun to compare compare them with all my junk.


----------



## Jimster480

porkfried said:


> I had all three dacs at the same time because,
> 1. I just added Gumby
> 2. I brought my work setup home for kicks
> 3. I haven't sold the Bimby yet
> 4. Its fun to compare compare them with all my junk.


 

 So you will sell Bimby and keep Mimby + Gumby?


----------



## Jimster480

kn1nja said:


> Have you tried contacting schiit support? They are pretty awesome and would get you taken care of.
> 
> If you do decide to get a Mimby, you will not be disappointed. It is a seriously good little DAC.


 

 No I haven't I'm really busy coding but I suppose I'll reach out to them tomorrow.
 I was kind of just hoping that it would go away with this new adapter, but its been about 5 hours of listening today and it still makes the same annoying popping noises 
  
 I'm about to try my phone charger again as a power source and hope for the best.


----------



## Letmebefrank

jimster480 said:


> No I haven't I'm really busy coding but I suppose I'll reach out to them tomorrow.
> I was kind of just hoping that it would go away with this new adapter, but its been about 5 hours of listening today and it still makes the same annoying popping noises
> 
> I'm about to try my phone charger again as a power source and hope for the best.




If there are no wireless transmitters nearby like a phone, wifi card, wireless printer, Bluetooth speakers, etc. and you try a phone charger and the popping problem persists, I would say your fulla 2 is probably faulty.


----------



## Jimster480

letmebefrank said:


> If there are no wireless transmitters nearby like a phone, wifi card, wireless printer, Bluetooth speakers, etc. and you try a phone charger and the popping problem persists, I would say your fulla 2 is probably faulty.


 

 I mean its connected to a laptop, my phone hasn't been near it yet.
 Honestly none of these things should cause this type of interference, if they did then it would be a pretty poor device overall.
 The only thing that I can understand causing interference is a cell phone on LTE sitting basically right on top of it, but my phone has been on the opposite side of the table so its more than a "safe distance" away.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Sounds like its most likely faulty. I would contact Schiit customer service. They should get back to you pretty quick.


----------



## ScottFree

letmebefrank said:


> Sounds like its most likely faulty. I would contact Schiit customer service. They should get back to you pretty quick.


 
  
 They certainly will. Always been very responsive for any of my inquires. They are the Schiit.


----------



## Astral Abyss

jimster480 said:


> I mean its connected to a laptop, my phone hasn't been near it yet.
> Honestly none of these things should cause this type of interference, if they did then it would be a pretty poor device overall.
> The only thing that I can understand causing interference is a cell phone on LTE sitting basically right on top of it, but my phone has been on the opposite side of the table so its more than a "safe distance" away.


 
  
 I can put my cell phone all the way on the other side of my workbench and it still causes interference with my Ember II.  But, if I move it off the same horizontal surface, it's not a problem.


----------



## Jimster480

astral abyss said:


> I can put my cell phone all the way on the other side of my workbench and it still causes interference with my Ember II.  But, if I move it off the same horizontal surface, it's not a problem.


 

 I've never experienced such things before other than with powered speakers, and honestly newer phones have much less interference.
 Back in the day your phone signals used to be analog, these days with the digital high frequency signals (1800+mhz) there is little interference.


----------



## dglow

jason stoddard said:


> For all of our products that use wall-warts, we're proud to introduce a multi-outlet floor wart that might simplify your AC power needs: http://schiit.com/products/floor-wart


 
  
 Consider letting buyers of compatible products upgrade to Chtulu in lieu of the stock wall wart. The win: less waste.


----------



## Jimster480

dglow said:


> Consider letting buyers of compatible products upgrade to Chtulu in lieu of the stock wall wart. The win: less waste.


 

 Thats actually a really good idea


----------



## SP Wild

I can't say enough good stuff about the Valhalla2. 

Of all the devices in my possession that can serve pre-amp duties for my new powered monitors... I clearly preferred the tubed Valhalla2 by a significant margin.

It really is the most best tube based investment I have ever made.


----------



## Paladin79

​Since I got it, I have run my Valhalla 2 into powered Martin Logan electrostatic speakers and the sound is excellent as well. I can switch over to a solid state amp with the touch of a switch and compare the two but the Valhalla certainly adds a bit of warmth. The pre-amp out was really a good idea for my purposes anyway.


----------



## D Smith

_ I use my Valhalla 2 in the same way, as a preamp for over half the time. It really does add a fullness to the sound. If I had one request of __Schiit , it would to have the preamp out active all the time, rather than be controlled by the headphone jack.  When I plug or unplug the headphones it makes a very loud noise in my speakers._


----------



## Paladin79

d smith said:


> _ I use my Valhalla 2 in the same way, as a preamp for over half the time. It really does add a fullness to the sound. If I had one request of __Schiit , it would to have the preamp out active all the time, rather than be controlled by the headphone jack.  When I plug or unplug the headphones it makes a very loud noise in my speakers._


 
 That makes sense. I have not experienced that effect much but it may just be the way I go about plugging things in and out. I have a custom switch box so I usually make changes there and the Valhalla is out of the circuit when I am swapping headphones and amps and sources.


----------



## Mr Rick

d smith said:


> _ I use my Valhalla 2 in the same way, as a preamp for over half the time. It really does add a fullness to the sound. If I had one request of __Schiit , it would to have the preamp out active all the time, rather than be controlled by the headphone jack.  When I plug or unplug the headphones it makes a very loud noise in my speakers._


 
  
 I use a y-cable at the Valhalla input. One sig to my Valhalla, one to my subwoofer. Works a treat.


----------



## Mr Rick

dglow said:


> Consider letting buyers of compatible products upgrade to Chtulu in lieu of the stock wall wart. The win: less waste.


 
  
 Best to ship each unit with it's own wall wart. When you are ready to upgrade one piece, it would be difficult to sell it without a wall wart.


----------



## Rodat

Some photos of the Milton Keynes UK event Sunday 2nd April 2017
  
 Electromod who sells Schiit amplifiers had a stand with most of Schiit's beautiful amplifiers except the Mjolnir who is currently in short supply as demands exceeds supply.
  
 I had a chat with Mark who was very welcoming and helpful with Schiit customers who attended this venue.
  
 Mark who is an audio engineer provided lots of helpful advice about Schiit's amplifiers and I would certainly recommend to purchase from Electromod for those buyers based in the UK.
  
 Electromod also does Schiit product servicing which means that products that needs servicing do not need to  be returned to the US.


----------



## Paladin79

I must have lost track of a few days, is it the fifth of April already?


----------



## JediMa70

I'm happy but not so enthusiastic bout the valii 2 while i'm going to buy a Sys


----------



## john777

paladin79 said:


> I must have lost track of a few days, is it the fifth of April already?:wink_face:




I think Rodat had finger-trouble... It was Sunday 2nd April 2017.


----------



## Paladin79

john777 said:


> I think Rodat had finger-trouble... It was Sunday 2nd April 2017.


 

 I know, just being facetious.


----------



## Left Channel

paladin79 said:


> I must have lost track of a few days, is it the fifth of April already?


 

 The British are ahead of us in so many ways...


----------



## Rodat

Hi All, I have pushed back the magical button of the time machine and I am now back in this era, and I can tell you how wonderful the future is for proud Schiit amplifier owners  OK I have rectified the typo and yes it was April 2nd, well done for spotting that.


----------



## Jimster480

rodat said:


> Hi All, I have pushed back the magical button of the time machine and I am now back in this era, and I can tell you how wonderful the future is for proud Schiit amplifier owners  OK I have rectified the typo and yes it was April 2nd, well done for spotting that.


 

 What do you mean by that?


----------



## Rodat

jimster480 said:


> What do you mean by that?


 

 Hi Jimster480, I made a previous post about a HeadFi venue in London (UK) that I attended last Sunday and accidentally wrote that it happened on Sunday April 5th


----------



## spykez

So, the Schiit Sys, I remember people using it in reverse so it can be 1 input and two output.
  
 So I basically want to do bifrost to asgard and bifrost to audioengine N22 speaker amp.


----------



## Jimster480

rodat said:


> Hi Jimster480, I made a previous post about a HeadFi venue in London (UK) that I attended last Sunday and accidentally wrote that it happened on Sunday April 5th


 

 Ah okay


----------



## digitaldave

spykez said:


> So, the Schiit Sys, I remember people using it in reverse so it can be 1 input and two output.
> 
> So I basically want to do bifrost to asgard and bifrost to audioengine N22 speaker amp.




I asked Schiit the same question, apparently that will work fine, you just need to have the volume control turned fully up.


----------



## MWSVette

spykez said:


> So, the Schiit Sys, I remember people using it in reverse so it can be 1 input and two output.
> 
> So I basically want to do bifrost to asgard and bifrost to audioengine N22 speaker amp.


 
  
  


digitaldave said:


> I asked Schiit the same question, apparently that will work fine, you just need to have the volume control turned fully up.


 
  
 Yep, it will work fine.  I use mine like that.
  
 The electrons do not care which way they are going...


----------



## spykez

Well what I meant was which ones become the input and which becomes output


----------



## Letmebefrank

spykez said:


> Well what I meant was which ones become the input and which becomes output


 
  
 The input becomes the one output, and the two outputs become the two inputs.


----------



## spykez

Awesome, thanks!


----------



## pelli

d smith said:


> _ I use my Valhalla 2 in the same way, as a preamp for over half the time. It really does add a fullness to the sound. If I had one request of __Schiit , it would to have the preamp out active all the time, rather than be controlled by the headphone jack.  When I plug or unplug the headphones it makes a very loud noise in my speakers._


 

 I know there have been a few suggestions for dealing with this but another (and a good general audio practice to get into) is to turn the volume all the way down before unplugging/plugging.  
  
 Turning down before switching inputs on any amp is a great habit to get in and turning the volume down for power-up/power-down as well.  Even some of the most high-end amps can be prone to "pops" when powering up or changing inputs or you can get a significant volume change from input to input.  Either of these situations can possibly damage your speakers and headphones. Getting into good consistent habits of power-up order, input switching, etc. can save you a serious "oh schiit" moment somewhere down the road!
  
 (my apologies for the schiit pun but I haven't used one in several years and couldn't help myself haha)


----------



## spykez

Ahem, so hooked my SYS up like you guys told me to. Awesome, it works. And so does the volume...oddly enough? I don't need it cranked all the way up for the switch to work in reverse so the volume knob still works. Just set the volume to max on the sys and then adjusted the headphone amp and my speaker up to a volume I'm max comfortable with then just the sys to adjust the volume down to a normal level.


----------



## Letmebefrank

It might sound OK now but it's not recommended, the pot works differently in reverse. Jason expressed the reasons why a while back in a previous post.


----------



## spykez

letmebefrank said:


> It might sound OK now but it's not recommended, the pot works differently in reverse. Jason expressed the reasons why a while back in a previous post.


 ya I played with more and realized it didn't work well as was inconsistent. Wish they would make a reverse one.


----------



## r2muchstuff

A simple Y splitter out of the source/DAC works well to feed two amps.

No additional volume control though. Generally less is more.

IMHO,
r2


----------



## Jimster480

spykez said:


> ya I played with more and realized it didn't work well as was inconsistent. Wish they would make a reverse one.


 

 I feel the same way, I need a reverse one.
 JDS Labs makes something similar but its 2 in 2 out which I also don't need.


r2muchstuff said:


> A simple Y splitter out of the source/DAC works well to feed two amps.
> 
> No additional volume control though. Generally less is more.
> 
> ...


 
  
 And that won't have an affect on the sound quality?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Not that I have noticed.

Less than a lot of switch boxes, again less is more in this situation.

JMTC,
r2


----------



## Music Alchemist

Wow, I haven't been in this thread in so long!
  
 Schiit I've owned so far: Magni 2 Uber, Modi 2, Fulla 2, Fulla (twice), Wyrd.
  
 I was surprised that no one seems to want to buy my Fulla. The other Schiit sold fast.
  
 I still have the Fulla 2. I really love the volume knob on top. Used as a DAC/amp, it doesn't sound nearly as good as the Chord Mojo (previously owned), but that's obviously not a fair comparison. Used as a DAC, I'm fine with it when I pair it with much nicer headphones like electrostats, since those affect the sound quite a bit more than the electronics. I actually don't think the iFi micro iDSD (currently own) is that much better than the Fulla 2 there.
  
 I'll also use the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for the JBL LSR305 speakers coming in tomorrow. Depending on how things go with speakers now and in the future, I may get rid of most of my headphones or get even more headphones. haha. If I don't end up focusing on speakers, I'm curious about the Jotunheim, particularly for the AB-1266 and HD 650.
  
 If anyone has comments on their favorite amps for the HD 650, I'm all ears!


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> If anyone has comments on their favorite amps for the HD 650, I'm all ears!


 
  
 The Mjolnir 2 with Siemens CCA tubes!


----------



## Music Alchemist

winders said:


> The Mjolnir 2 with Siemens CCA tubes!


 
  
 I noticed you also have a Lyr 2. How do they compare with the HD 650?


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> I noticed you also have a Lyr 2. How do they compare with the HD 650?


 

 The Lyr 2 sounds great with the HD 650 headphones. But, the Mjolnir 2 using an XLR headphone cable is another level better. The difference is significant!


----------



## Music Alchemist

winders said:


> The Lyr 2 sounds great with the HD 650 headphones. But, the Mjolnir 2 using an XLR headphone cable is another level better. The difference is significant!


 
  
 I was hoping for a description of the differences in sound.


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> I was hoping for a description of the differences in sound.


 

 The sound is more realistic with the MJ2. It sounds much more like my powered monitors. Of course the sound stage is not the same as speakers but the sound is much more dynamic with the MJ2. The bass has more impact but maintains precision and clarity. Voices, male and female, are clearer and better isolated. The overall sound has more power yet maintains the clarity and detail you expect from the HD 650 headphones. It is almost like you took a 2 channel system that was under powered and added more powerful amps. Even when playing at the same volume as before with the under powered amp, the sound opens up like a veil was lifted.
  
 Is that better?


----------



## Music Alchemist

winders said:


> The sound is more realistic with the MJ2. It sounds much more like my powered monitors. Of course the sound stage is not the same as speakers but the sound is much more dynamic with the MJ2. The bass has more impact but maintains precision and clarity. Voices, male and female, are clearer and better isolated. The overall sound has more power yet maintains the clarity and detail you expect from the HD 650 headphones. It is almost like you took a 2 channel system that was under powered and added more powerful amps. Even when playing at the same volume as before with the under powered amp, the sound opens up like a veil was lifted.
> 
> Is that better?


 
  
 Yes, much better. Thank ya! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Speaking of active monitors...how do you feel yours compare to the HD 650? What does each do that the other can't? (Aside from soundstage and imaging.)
  
 I no longer have the HD 650, but after owning/hearing some of the best headphones out there, I actually prefer the HD 650 much of the time, so I may get another.
  
 However, I am unsure about how I want to allocate my resources in the future. I haven't given speakers a fair chance and get the feeling I need to before going further down the rabbit hole. I came across a comment (no idea how true it is) that the JBL LSR305 is better than any headphone, and that made me pretty curious.


----------



## Nokiron

I have had my Jotunheim with the DAC-module for a month or so and its fantastic. Super pleased with my purchase.
  
 Might go for a Modi Multibit later on, or just simply wait and see what kind of modules are planned.


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> Yes, much better. Thank ya!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Swan M200MKIII active monitors are WAY better than the HD 650 headphones. Speakers just sound more realistic than headphones. I only use headphones when I need to be quiet or when I want to hear some minute detail that I might not be able to hear with the speakers. The later is rare. Speakers are better in every other way as far as I am concerned. The Swans I have are bi-amped with active crossovers and are perfect nearfield monitors for when I am working at my computer. I would not use them as speakers for a room. I don't know how the JBL LSR305 would work there. I would not get studio monitors for a room.


----------



## Music Alchemist

winders said:


> The Swan M200MKIII active monitors are WAY better than the HD 650 headphones. Speakers just sound more realistic than headphones. I only use headphones when I need to be quiet or when I want to hear some minute detail that I might not be able to hear with the speakers. The later is rare. Speakers are better in every other way as far as I am concerned. The Swans I have are bi-amped with active crossovers and are perfect nearfield monitors for when I am working at my computer. I would not use them as speakers for a room. I don't know how the JBL LSR305 would work there. I would not get studio monitors for a room.


 
  
 This is very helpful info. Thanks again! And yes, I'd only use the monitors in a nearfield setting.


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> This is very helpful info. Thanks again! And yes, I'd only use the monitors in a nearfield setting.


 

 You really should look at the Swan M200MKIII:
  
 https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/m200mkiii
  
 $278.....and they sound incredible! If you don't like them, they can be returned and are so inexpensive it almost doesn't matter.


----------



## Music Alchemist

winders said:


> You really should look at the Swan M200MKIII:
> 
> https://www.chanemusiccinema.com/m200mkiii
> 
> $278.....and they sound incredible! If you don't like them, they can be returned and are so inexpensive it almost doesn't matter.


 
  
 I already bought the JBL speakers I mentioned since they seem to be the most well-regarded ones in this price range.


----------



## Jimster480

music alchemist said:


> I already bought the JBL speakers I mentioned since they seem to be the most well-regarded ones in this price range.


 

 Which JBL speakers did you get?


----------



## Music Alchemist

jimster480 said:


> Which JBL speakers did you get?


 
  
 I mentioned it in my post a few hours ago.
  


music alchemist said:


> I'll also use the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for the JBL LSR305 speakers coming in tomorrow.


----------



## pelli

It's all subjective so lets remember bot to be too absolute on speakers > headphones.  As you can see from my PFP I am big into the speaker game, but the cos/performance ratio for headphones is typically more favorable in my experience.  I love the actual feel of the music speakers produce but I had to spend many times what the hd-650 costs to get the same level of resolution from a speaker system.  
  
 Now back to some Schiit... Bifrost > Asgard > HD 650 was my first setup and will always keep a place in my heart.  I upgraded my Schiit but will never sell my HD-650 despite any other audio purchases.


----------



## winders

pelli said:


> It's all subjective so lets remember bot to be too absolute on speakers > headphones.  As you can see from my PFP I am big into the speaker game, but the cos/performance ratio for headphones is typically more favorable in my experience.  I love the actual feel of the music speakers produce but I had to spend many times what the hd-650 costs to get the same level of resolution from a speaker system.


 

 I can be as absolute as I want! I am only speaking for myself.
  
 My $248 powered monitors in a nearfield setup sound better than my $400 HD 650 headphones. Period. I would much rather listen to a quality speaker setup than quality headphones. I don't care if the speakers cost more....this isn't a contest based on cost equivalency. Speakers have more potential for realism and are more engaging.
  
 If I were stuck in an apartment I would have to settle on headphones.


----------



## pelli

yikes! guess I hit a nerve


----------



## Paladin79

I am certainly not stuck in an apartment and I enjoy both speakers and headphones and feel that each have merit. I run powered Martin Logans from a Valhalla 2 and love the sound. The types of recordings I listen to (usually binaural plus)  work better with headphones but work with speakers as well. The headphones do offer a depth and direction that is hard to produce with speakers but the music is geared towards headphones. With groups of friends over, speakers are a good way to go. It's all good.


----------



## winders

I listen to mostly Red Book source material primarily from the 60's, 70's, and 80's. These are all stereophonic recordings along with a few monophonic recordings. Ideal for speakers and less ideal for headphones.
  
 I enjoy my headphones too as they sound great. I don't mind using them when I need to be quiet. They just aren't my preference.


----------



## winders

pelli said:


> yikes! guess I hit a nerve


 

 No. There was no need to post an admonishment. That's all.


----------



## theveterans

winders said:


> I can be as absolute as I want! I am only speaking for myself.
> 
> My $248 powered monitors in a nearfield setup sound better than my $400 HD 650 headphones. Period. I would much rather listen to a quality speaker setup than quality headphones. I don't care if the speakers cost more....this isn't a contest based on cost equivalency. Speakers have more potential for realism and are more engaging.
> 
> If I were stuck in an apartment I would have to settle on headphones.


 
  
 True to my case as well. The $400/pair HS7 beats the pants off my AKG K712 (Austria) in sound. Imaging, depth (it's much more holographic sounding) and soundstage alone in a nearfield setup is much better on the HS7 compared to the AKG K712. PRAT is also marginally better. Also no need for a subwoofer with the HS7 since they extend deep enough for music.


----------



## Paladin79

Since this is a Schiit owners thread, any tube recommendations for a Valhalla 2?  I have tried a few Russian tubes and some are better than others but they did not seem to change the sound a lot compared to the original tubes.


----------



## MWSVette

paladin79 said:


> Since this is a Schiit owners thread, any tube recommendations for a Valhalla 2?  I have tried a few Russian tubes and some are better than others but they did not seem to change the sound a lot compared to the original tubes.


 

 Check the Lyr tube roller thread as the 6N1P input tubes are rollable.  Do not expect much change if rolling the driver tubes.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/12540#post_13403584
  
 There are some great tubes in the 6DJ8 line...


----------



## Paladin79

mwsvette said:


> Check the Lyr tube roller thread as the 6N1P input tubes are rollable.  Do not expect much change if rolling the driver tubes.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/673709/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers/12540#post_13403584
> 
> There are some great tubes in the 6DJ8 line...


 

 Very cool, thanks for the info.


----------



## Reputator

Welp just ordered a Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber.
  
  
 On a scale of Dollar Tree earphones to Orpheus 2, how happy will I be?


----------



## zabzaf

reputator said:


> Welp just ordered a Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber.
> 
> 
> On a scale of Dollar Tree earphones to Orpheus 2, how happy will I be?




I suppose it depends what you're moving from. Do tell.


----------



## Reputator

zabzaf said:


> I suppose it depends what you're moving from. Do tell.


 
  
 Well, that's the fun part. The Schiit combo comes out to about $400. For the exact same price I bought a Fostex HP-A4BL that I'm not very happy with. Both are very new products, so it should be interesting to compare.
  
 The Fostex DAC/amp wasn't very engaging. Almost seemed to compress the dynamic range so the louder passages never really stepped up that much from the quieter moments. My old setup that I had a few years ago definitely had that going for it. It's detailed and clear, but not very musical.


----------



## spykez

Quote: 





reputator said:


> Welp just ordered a Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber.
> 
> 
> On a scale of Dollar Tree earphones to Orpheus 2, how happy will I be?


 
  
 Imagine the first time you ever watched porn.


----------



## Jimster480

spykez said:


> Imagine the first time you ever watched porn.


 

 Thats subjective, I don't like porn at all and never liked it from the first time I saw it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Alright, speakers are in! Here's my chain.
  
 laptop computer: Alienware M11x R2
 music player: foobar2000
 output mode: WASAPI (event)
 DAC/preamp: Schiit Fulla 2
 1/8" to dual 3-pin XLR cable: AxcessAbles TRS18-DXLR403M
 active studio monitor speakers: JBL LSR305
  
 I'm having a serious problem that is relevant here: constant horrendous computer noise whenever I connect the speakers (via the listed cable) to the Fulla 2 or the headphone outputs of my laptop. It's usually as loud as the music is too.
  
 Any ideas what the cause(s) could be and what I should do to fix it?


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> Alright, speakers are in! Here's my chain.
> 
> laptop computer: Alienware M11x R2
> music player: foobar2000
> ...


 
 I would try different output modes and players first off, just to make sure it isn't an output problem. Next, I would check to see if you have a ground loop by turning off every other device in the house that you possibly can and checking, and then moving your equipment to different circuits in the house and seeing if the problem is the same. If you find differences, you should try a HumX or some device to eliminate ground loops. My main headphone rig is in my office at work and the whole site is on several different transformers, so there is all sorts of weird crap that connects together and causes strange issues with voltage in certain areas. I bought a power filter and it solved all of my issues.


----------



## Reputator

spykez said:


> Imagine the first time you ever watched porn.


 
  
 Exxxcellent.


----------



## Music Alchemist

sludgeogre said:


> I would try different output modes and players first off, just to make sure it isn't an output problem. Next, I would check to see if you have a ground loop by turning off every other device in the house that you possibly can and checking, and then moving your equipment to different circuits in the house and seeing if the problem is the same. If you find differences, you should try a HumX or some device to eliminate ground loops. My main headphone rig is in my office at work and the whole site is on several different transformers, so there is all sorts of weird crap that connects together and causes strange issues with voltage in certain areas. I bought a power filter and it solved all of my issues.


 
  
 The noise definitely has something to do with my computer. Whenever I move my mouse, it makes more noise. When I unplug the cable from the Fulla 2, the noise stops entirely. It also stops when I unplug the power cable from my laptop, but I obviously can't run on battery power for long.
  
 Do you think getting another surge protector and plugging only the speaker power cables into it would fix it? Or would it do nothing since the noise is coming from the computer?


----------



## Reputator

music alchemist said:


> The noise definitely has something to do with my computer. Whenever I move my mouse, it makes more noise. When I unplug the cable from the Fulla 2, the noise stops entirely. It also stops when I unplug the power cable from my laptop, but I obviously can't run on battery power for long.
> 
> Do you think getting another surge protector and plugging only the speaker power cables into it would fix it? Or would it do nothing since the noise is coming from the computer?


 
  
 Schiit makes a product to address this very issue. It's called Wyrd.
  
 Unfortunately circuitry surrounding USB ports, especially in compact computers such as laptops, aren't made with the cleanest signals. It's fine if you're running a thumbdrive, but shows an ugly side with sensitive audio components.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reputator said:


> Schiit makes a product to address this very issue. It's called Wyrd.
> 
> Unfortunately circuitry surrounding USB ports, especially in compact computers such as laptops, aren't made with the cleanest signals. It's fine if you're running a thumbdrive, but shows an ugly side with sensitive audio components.


 
  
 I made a post in this very thread that I used to own the Wyrd. But I don't want to get one again just for that. $99 is too much for that.
  
 Got any alternatives that are reasonably priced? I see ground loop isolators for like five bucks, but I don't think they are the type I need.
  
 For the record, I only experience this noise with the speakers. When I use headphones, there is no noise.
  
 When I use the RCA outputs of my iFi micro iDSD along with a dual RCA to 1/8" cable and 1/8" to 1/4" adapter, this removes the computer noise...but I have to control the volume with the volume knob on the back of the speaker, and with the cables I have, I can only connect to one speaker...so that's not a real solution.


----------



## EElegances

music alchemist said:


> ....
> For the record, I only experience this noise with the speakers. When I use headphones, there is no noise.
> ....


 
 I'd say it's time for some serious detective thinking before spending any money.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Can someone tell me if this is fully compatible with the Fulla 2? (Read the info on the link before replying.)
  
 https://hifimediy.com/usb-isolator


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> The noise definitely has something to do with my computer. Whenever I move my mouse, it makes more noise. When I unplug the cable from the Fulla 2, the noise stops entirely. It also stops when I unplug the power cable from my laptop, but I obviously can't run on battery power for long.
> 
> Do you think getting another surge protector and plugging only the speaker power cables into it would fix it? Or would it do nothing since the noise is coming from the computer?


 
  
 Good info. Another surge protector will probably do nothing. It doesn't create a new ground, and if it's on the same circuit, it'll be exactly the same power.


music alchemist said:


> I made a post in this very thread that I used to own the Wyrd. But I don't want to get one again just for that. $99 is too much for that.
> 
> Got any alternatives that are reasonably priced? I see ground loop isolators for like five bucks, but I don't think they are the type I need.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think the Wyrd will fix this. It only separates the power from the PC and reclocks the signal. If the signal is crappy, which it sounds like it is, then the Wyrd will only attenuate it, or might not even touch it. Probably not the ultimate solution. People pretend that it fixes every USB issue ever, but it doesn't, it just fixes a large set of problems. the primary one being poor USB implementation on motherboards, and in my experience, laptops especially. It still didn't make USB as good as using a DAP with a coax output so I still don't use USB for audio at all. Now, the new Eitr that is coming out might be a solution, but who knows what it's going to be, but it's rumored to be a new USB Gen 3 interface that gets rid of a lot of problems.
  
 The iDSD is probably using some sort of isolation or is creating a new ground, likely the latter. The Fulla 2 is meant to work with phones and other stuff, so I doubt it has the same level of isolation as the iDSD.
  


music alchemist said:


> Can someone tell me if this is fully compatible with the Fulla 2? (Read the info on the link before replying.)
> 
> https://hifimediy.com/usb-isolator


 
 No it will not. Fulla 2 requires 500 mA or more power, as stated in the manual. That isolator only provides 200 mA of power. If you're using a phone charger for the power instead, you might be able to try it on the signal cable, but I don't know if that will have any effect or not.


----------



## Music Alchemist

sludgeogre said:


> Good info. Another surge protector will probably do nothing. It doesn't create a new ground, and if it's on the same circuit, it'll be exactly the same power.
> I don't think the Wyrd will fix this. It only separates the power from the PC and reclocks the signal. If the signal is crappy, which it sounds like it is, then the Wyrd will only attenuate it, or might not even touch it. Probably not the ultimate solution. People pretend that it fixes every USB issue ever, but it doesn't, it just fixes a large set of problems. the primary one being poor USB implementation on motherboards, and in my experience, laptops especially. It still didn't make USB as good as using a DAP with a coax output so I still don't use USB for audio at all. Now, the new Eitr that is coming out might be a solution, but who knows what it's going to be, but it's rumored to be a new USB Gen 3 interface that gets rid of a lot of problems.
> 
> The iDSD is probably using some sort of isolation or is creating a new ground, likely the latter. The Fulla 2 is meant to work with phones and other stuff, so I doubt it has the same level of isolation as the iDSD.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for all the info!
  
 How do you know the Wyrd won't help? Consensus is that it does fix noise like this.


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> Thanks for all the info!
> 
> How do you know the Wyrd won't help? Consensus is that it does fix noise like this.


 
 I don't know, I just know that from my experience, it didn't eliminate the noise issues I was having. Because yours happens when certain things do on the computer, it would probably help. I just don't think it will eliminate all noise. With my Wyrd and Bifrost Multibit and JRiver, it still doesn't sound as accurate with a flat frequency response as my DX80 via Coax to the Bifrost. The background isn't completely black, either, and that really drives me nuts. After getting a black background with the DX80 and a power filter for my crappy office, I just can't go back.
  
 In all honesty I've never had much luck with Schiit's USB implementations, and Mike has lamented very often about how much USB and Windows suck to work with. I believe he's making strides now to fix more problems, but the cmedia USB interface they've been using up until now just doesn't sound that great to my ears. I've never been able to get a Windows machine to be dead silent over USB, but I've only tried 4 or 5 computers and only the Wyrd and a couple power conditioners and filters. I got sick of all of that and went with coax as it is Mike's preferred method of connection, although he's hardcore and prefers a CD player with coax output over anything else. In my HT setup I use the HDMI out of my video card to connect to my XMC-1 and it's dead silent as well, with startling, crazy accuracy and detail with JRiver (I can hear all of the bass and guitar parts of Archspire's stupidly fast tech death album, it's fantastic).
  
 The thing that sucks is that not all USB ports are created equal. There are just too many factors involved with it. The fact that one player can even sound better than another (I think JRiver does sound better than foobar, download the trial, seriously) really bothers me as well, as you're always dealing with software tweaks and new standards that change things all the time. Coax just sounds the same, all the time. It's made specifically for audio. It's dependable.


----------



## johnjen

music alchemist said:


> Alright, speakers are in! Here's my chain.
> 
> snip 1/8" to dual 3-pin XLR cable: AxcessAbles TRS18-DXLR403M
> active studio monitor speakers: JBL LSR305
> ...


 
 Your 1/8" to dual 3pin xlr cables may be the culprit here.
  
 You are essentially supplying dual SE outputs (with a common ground) as balanced inputs with this common ground for both of the powered speakers.
 And (I presume) the speakers are plugged into the wall outlet where they share a common ground connection as well (no cheater plug is used).
 A potential for a ground loop right there.
  
 Not to mention that many balanced inputs can have difficulty when trying to feed it an unbalanced signal, and where both speaker minus signal inputs are essentially tied together and to ground, at the same time.
  
 It's too bad the speakers don't have a single ended input, which would more easily confirm this idea.
  
 JJ


----------



## Music Alchemist

sludgeogre said:


> I don't know, I just know that from my experience, it didn't eliminate the noise issues I was having. Because yours happens when certain things do on the computer, it would probably help. I just don't think it will eliminate all noise. With my Wyrd and Bifrost Multibit and JRiver, it still doesn't sound as accurate with a flat frequency response as my DX80 via Coax to the Bifrost. The background isn't completely black, either, and that really drives me nuts. After getting a black background with the DX80 and a power filter for my crappy office, I just can't go back.
> 
> In all honesty I've never had much luck with Schiit's USB implementations, and Mike has lamented very often about how much USB and Windows suck to work with. I believe he's making strides now to fix more problems, but the cmedia USB interface they've been using up until now just doesn't sound that great to my ears. I've never been able to get a Windows machine to be dead silent over USB, but I've only tried 4 or 5 computers and only the Wyrd and a couple power conditioners and filters. I got sick of all of that and went with coax as it is Mike's preferred method of connection, although he's hardcore and prefers a CD player with coax output over anything else. In my HT setup I use the HDMI out of my video card to connect to my XMC-1 and it's dead silent as well, with startling, crazy accuracy and detail with JRiver (I can hear all of the bass and guitar parts of Archspire's stupidly fast tech death album, it's fantastic).
> 
> The thing that sucks is that not all USB ports are created equal. There are just too many factors involved with it. The fact that one player can even sound better than another (I think JRiver does sound better than foobar, download the trial, seriously) really bothers me as well, as you're always dealing with software tweaks and new standards that change things all the time. Coax just sounds the same, all the time. It's made specifically for audio. It's dependable.


 
  
 As far as I can remember, the only DAC/amp / DAC / amp I've gotten any noise at all with headphones is the original Fulla. All the others had no weird computer noise with headphones despite all connecting via USB. But with these speakers, it's different, and the noise is very bad with both the Fulla 2 (from its preamp output) and micro iDSD (via its headphone output).
  
 I've tried most players. In bitperfect output modes, they all sound the same to me except for ones that apply DSP such as HQPlayer.
  


johnjen said:


> Your 1/8" to dual 3pin xlr cables may be the culprit here.
> 
> You are essentially supplying dual SE outputs (with a common ground) as balanced inputs with this common ground for both of the powered speakers.
> And (I presume) the speakers are plugged into the wall outlet where they share a common ground connection as well (no cheater plug is used).
> ...


 
  
 That's another factor I thought of. It's also too bad I don't have a DAC/preamp with XLR outputs. (I don't want to buy one right now.)
  
 Although both inputs are balanced, one of them is 1/4". Here's one thing I tried, in case you missed the comment:
  


music alchemist said:


> When I use the RCA outputs of my iFi micro iDSD along with a dual RCA to 1/8" cable and 1/8" to 1/4" adapter, this removes the computer noise...but I have to control the volume with the volume knob on the back of the speaker, and with the cables I have, I can only connect to one speaker...so that's not a real solution.


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> As far as I can remember, the only DAC/amp / DAC / amp I've gotten any noise at all with headphones is the original Fulla. All the others had no weird computer noise with headphones despite all connecting via USB. But with these speakers, it's different, and the noise is very bad with both the Fulla 2 (from its preamp output) and micro iDSD (via its headphone output).
> 
> I've tried most players. In bitperfect output modes, they all sound the same to me except for ones that apply DSP such as HQPlayer.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting. *shrug* I guess my computers just suck or something. It's quite possible. My work laptop is a Dell low end piece of poop and my PC is self built and probably 5+ years old now. Works like a champ, though.
  
 It makes sense that there is a ton of noise via the headphone output of the iDSD. Since the inputs on your speakers are balanced it will amplify the noise floor of the headphone output by 6 dB, and it's a headphone output, so it's not line voltage. You should really buy some RCA to 1/4" cables and try them with the iDSD, that would narrow it down to the Fulla 2.
  
 Do you get any noise if you connect the speakers to a phone or a laptop output instead of a dedicated DAC?


----------



## johnjen

music alchemist said:


> snip
> For the record, I only experience this noise with the speakers. When I use headphones, there is no noise.
> 
> When I use the RCA outputs of my iFi micro iDSD along with a dual RCA to 1/8" cable and 1/8" to 1/4" adapter, this removes the computer noise...but I have to control the volume with the volume knob on the back of the speaker, and with the cables I have, I can only connect to one speaker...so that's not a real solution.


 
 This bit of additional info tends to suggest that it's the common ground that is fed to both balanced inputs at the same time, that leads to or is a major contributor to your noise problem.
  
 And it matters not if you are using the 3-pin XLR or the 1/4" TRS connector, they both are feeding a fully balanced input where the minus input is being tied to ground.
  
 And that ground is tied directly to the ground from your laptop which is usually rather noisy to begin with AND the charger for the laptop (being an SMPS) adds considerably more noise to ground.
  
 JJ


----------



## Music Alchemist

sludgeogre said:


> Interesting. *shrug* I guess my computers just suck or something. It's quite possible. My work laptop is a Dell low end piece of poop and my PC is self built and probably 5+ years old now. Works like a champ, though.
> 
> It makes sense that there is a ton of noise via the headphone output of the iDSD. Since the inputs on your speakers are balanced it will amplify the noise floor of the headphone output by 6 dB, and it's a headphone output, so it's not line voltage. You should really buy some RCA to 1/4" cables and try them with the iDSD, that would narrow it down to the Fulla 2.
> 
> Do you get any noise if you connect the speakers to a phone or a laptop output instead of a dedicated DAC?


 
  
 It's the computer (or something related to its power) that is causing the noise, though. I know that because, like I said, the noise disappears when I unplug the laptop's power cable.
  
 I plan on selling the iDSD, so I want to get this fixed with the Fulla 2.
  
 I answered that in my original post:
  


music alchemist said:


> I'm having a serious problem that is relevant here: constant horrendous computer noise whenever I connect the speakers (via the listed cable) to the Fulla 2 *or the headphone outputs of my laptop.*


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> It's the computer (or something related to its power) that is causing the noise, though. I know that because, like I said, the noise disappears when I unplug the laptop's power cable.
> 
> I plan on selling the iDSD, so I want to get this fixed with the Fulla 2.
> 
> I answered that in my original post:


 
 Reading the LSR305 manual:
  
 The 3 Series Speakers are equipped with balanced XLR and 6 mm (¼") TRS inputs for connection to professional computer
 audio interfaces, mixing consoles and audio production equipment as well as unbalanced consumer audio products including personal music players, consumer audio receivers and audio visual equipment. Connect professional equipment with balanced outputs to the XLR or 6 mm (¼") TRS input of the speaker using balanced signal cables. 3-Series speakers are equipped with an INPUT SENSITIVITY SWITCH. The switch is set to the -10 dBV setting when it ships from our factory. This setting will be best for many applications. However, you can set the switch to the +4 dBu setting:
  
 • When connecting 3 Series speakers to professional equipment with +4 dBu nominal output level, set the INPUT SENSITIVITY SWITCH to the +4 dBu setting. To determine the nominal output level of the connected equipment, consult the documentation supplied with the connected equipment.
  
*• If you notice the sound is distorted, set this switch to the +4 dBu setting.*
  
  
  
 Maybe that helps. The whole thing of it going away when you unplug the laptop is really weird, though. Maybe a power conditioner or filter is the answer. You can't lift the grounds on the speakers. There has to be a ground loop somewhere if this doesn't work. I've edited this post like 10 times with all of the different stuff I keep finding.


----------



## Music Alchemist

sludgeogre said:


> Maybe that helps. The whole thing of it going away when you unplug the laptop is really weird, though. Maybe a power conditioner or filter is the answer. You can't lift the grounds on the speakers. There has to be a ground loop somewhere if this doesn't work. I've edited this post like 10 times with all of the different stuff I keep finding.


 
  
 It's not distortion; it's computer noise. I already read the manual and experimented with the input sensitivity switch.
  
 Nick from Schiit suggested that I try cheater plugs since it's likely a ground-related issue, but I don't know if they're safe. I've read scary things about them.


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> It's not distortion; it's computer noise. I already read the manual and experimented with the input sensitivity switch.
> 
> Nick from Schiit suggested that I try cheater plugs since it's likely a ground-related issue, but I don't know if they're safe. I've read scary things about them.


 
 The LSR305 manual says to not use cheater plugs on the speakers, I suggested that in my post early and edited it out after reading the manual further.
  
 You could try it on the laptop power cable, though. I don't know if they give a crap. The only other thing I would try is a power filter. It helped solve some issues I was having, but they start at 100 bucks for a 2 outlet model from APC or Furman.
  
 Other than that, I give up. This is why I stopped trying with USB audio.


----------



## johnjen

music alchemist said:


> It's not distortion; it's computer noise. I already read the manual and experimented with the input sensitivity switch.
> 
> Nick from Schiit suggested that I try cheater plugs since it's likely a ground-related issue, but I don't know if they're safe. I've read scary things about them.


 
 It looks like from here that there are 2 possible solutions.
 Get a set of powered speakers that have an unbalanced input.
 Or get a pair of SE to balanced line matching transformers, one for each channel.
  
 The thing is you have pro level speakers and your system isn't quite up the technical level of 'pro audio' electronics.
  
 The transformers will break the ground loop, and handle the 'connecting that same ground problem' between the speakers as well.
 And transformers will tend to reduce the amount of noise that is passed from signal source to the amps in the speakers, because transformers have an upper frequency limit.
  
 Here is an example of what would work, there are many other possibilities as well.
 http://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/db-2px/
 I have no idea as to the quality, but as a general rule, they do make some really good ones, and this unit is VERY flexible in terms of how it can be grounded.
 And ebay has a used one for a lot less.
  
 Or as I stated above get different powered speakers with SE inputs.
  
 JJ


----------



## Music Alchemist

I managed to reduce the noise a bit by switching to a Belkin BE106000-06R surge protector that I was using in another room prior. But it's still there.
  


johnjen said:


> It looks like from here that there are 2 possible solutions.
> Get a set of powered speakers that have an unbalanced input.
> Or get a pair of SE to balanced line matching transformers, one for each channel.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What about this? Would this fix it? It's USB-powered, but has XLR outputs.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Peavey-3001370-USB-Audio-Interface/dp/B004A4PSEU
  
 This much more expensive one ($350 now) looks like it could work too. It even has a ground/lift switch, though I don't know anything about it.
  
 https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/hifi-and-home-cinema/dacmagic-plus


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> I managed to reduce the noise a bit by switching to a Belkin BE106000-06R surge protector that I was using in another room prior. But it's still there.
> 
> What about this? Would this fix it? It's USB-powered, but has XLR outputs.
> 
> ...


 
 The Peavey thing is essentially a DAC, so yeah it probably will, but it probably won't sound as good as the Fulla 2. It's meant for pro gear applications so DJ's can hook up laptops to stuff.
  
 The Dacmagic might work, but you'd have to sell/return the Fulla 2. From the manual about the switch:
  
 "When Grounded the Dacmagic Plus is connected to the earth connection of the PC directly. When Lifted the ground connection is made via a network designed to break any hum loops that may be caused by the source equipment. We advise using the Grounded setting unless audible hum is experienced."
  
 Could disconnect that noise you're getting from your laptop. Alternative solution is to fix the noise going into the laptop with a power filter or conditioner.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Update! I totally forgot I already had a cheater plug. I connected it to my laptop's charger plug and it worked! The computer noise is gone. But is this safe? I heard cheater plugs can cause fires and so on.
  
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheater_plug#Safety


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> Update! I totally forgot I already had a cheater plug. I connected it to my laptop's charger plug and it worked! The computer noise is gone. But is this safe? I heard cheater plugs can cause fires and so on.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheater_plug#Safety


 
 Huzzah! I thought it would work, I just wasn't going to say "go do it", lol. I don't think it'll cause issues. I have plugged my laptop charger into ungrounded outlets before, it doesn't seem to care. They have temperature and battery regulation built into them so they don't explode on people's laps.


----------



## johnjen

music alchemist said:


> Update! I totally forgot I already had a cheater plug. I connected it to my laptop's charger plug and it worked! The computer noise is gone. But is this safe? I heard cheater plugs can cause fires and so on.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheater_plug#Safety


 
 A cheater plug on your powersupply that charges the battery is able to be lifted from ground with little to no problems.
 Mostly because the laptop is electrically floating to begin with and the standard SMPS charger usually doesn't pass the ground connection from the receptacle in the wall onto the laptop itself.
  
 So in effect all you've done is float the already encased in plastic charger from ground.
 IOW not a big deal.
  
 JJ


----------



## Reputator

Schiit stack made it from Cali to Florida in two days. Modern times, eh?
  
  
 Modi Multibit + Magni 2 Uber *VS* Fostex HP-A4BL. Both $400.
  
 First day impressions.
 Exceeds expectations! So I'll start with what the Fostex does better, because that's a shorter list. Clarity, detail, and separation. When it comes to orchestral tracks, it's very easy to tell instruments apart, and nothing seems to outshine anything else so they all get an adequate presence. There's less weight in the upper mids, meaning pianos sound especially nice, and overall clarity lends a good sense of realism to everything, such that it can be unexpectedly striking at times.
  
 That's about where Fostex's advantages end, because everywhere else, the stack Schiits all over it. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Fostex amp/dac seems to compress the dynamic range somewhat, and just when it starts to get you involved in the track, your lungs start to fill as you get ready for the music to rise up and take off....it doesn't. It leaves you feeling a bit deflated. It seems to hold back. It's too polite to sing too loudly or disturb whatever it is you're doing. That would be rude, it thinks. When you raise up the volume, you get this wonderful clarity and detail in the quieter moments, although a bit of dryness. Then the louder moments don't give you the oomph and emotion you're craving. There's this sense that you're listening to sounds. Good sounds. But not really the music.
  
 The Mimby/Magni2U changes all that. There's an over-delivery of power, such that I don't think I'll ever own a headphone that can use it. This power emanates from the stack like a furnace, and you can feel the warmth on the metal surfaces. When a track demands that power, it delivers. When it doesn't, you still get this involving, layered circle of sound all around your head. More warmth in the bass, more exuberance in the mids, so you're sacrificing the sort of democratic presentation of all sounds equally. The trade-off means hearing the music, and not the parts that make up the sum. Extension in the lows and highs is greater, and sub-bass through my Shure SRH1540 is superb through this setup. There's more punch in the bass too, while the highs are smoother. The Fostex had this slow, blobby bass that seemed lifeless, and some peakiness that placed odd emphasis on things it shouldn't.
  
 Admittedly a lot of this has to do with the improvement in the amp section. The DAC section of the Fostex is still great, and when connecting the Fostex's line-out to the Magni 2 Uber, it sort of makes me wish I wasn't selling it. It alleviates some of the sense of dynamic compression and lends some much-needed musicality to the whole presentation, while still providing the fantastic clarity and separation. But the Modi Multibit is certainly good enough for my needs.


----------



## Music Alchemist

reputator said:


> There's an over-delivery of power, such that I don't think I'll ever own a headphone that can use it.


 
  
 The only headphone I've used that pushed the limits of the Magni 2 Uber was the Pioneer SE-300: a piezoelectric from the 1970s and one of the rarest headphones.


----------



## Reputator

music alchemist said:


> The only headphone I've used that pushed the limits of the Magni 2 Uber was the Pioneer SE-300: a piezoelectric from the 1970s and one of the rarest headphones.


 
  
 I used to have a pair of Hifiman HE-5LEs. They were about as hard to drive as 600ohm DT990s. But I'm seriously craving some ortho smoothness again, and the HE-560s have my eye.


----------



## Jimster480

music alchemist said:


> The only headphone I've used that pushed the limits of the Magni 2 Uber was the Pioneer SE-300: a piezoelectric from the 1970s and one of the rarest headphones.


 

 How does that actually sound? I just looked it up and only found a couple headfi links of people selling/trading them years ago.


----------



## Music Alchemist

jimster480 said:


> How does that actually sound? I just looked it up and only found a couple headfi links of people selling/trading them years ago.


 
  
 I'm having trouble putting it into words, honestly. I will say that I did not find its sound to be noteworthy. Perhaps that's why I am hesitant to be more specific. I wouldn't bother pursuing it, especially due to its rarity and high power requirements.
  
 And now it's time for one of my signature rants! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Since sound is defined as "the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium", it is subjective by its very nature. The only way to really know how something sounds is by listening with your own ears. And that will only apply to your own circumstances: the music played, the components in the system, the volume levels, anatomy (the shape and size of your ears, for instance), biology (the chemical reactions in our bodies can change the way things sound to us at any given time), and so on.
  
 Unfortunately, words can't accurately convey much at all pertaining to how something sounds. I could write hundreds of pages about how something sounds and not even scratch the surface of telling someone how the experience actually is. In the end, it's just a bunch of stereotyped terminology that often could mean anything to anyone. Take any audio product and you're bound to find any manner of conflicting opinions. I can all but guarantee the terms in an audiophile glossary like *this one* have been used to describe virtually any audio product at one point or another. I can't tell you how many times my own experience has been vastly different from how others described it.
  
 I've grown jaded by the audiophile hobby...
  
 On a loosely related note... Ever since getting the JBL LSR305 (or rather, a pair of them), I've become one of those speaker elitists.
  
 Although I'd heard speakers throughout my life (in music studios, homes, concerts, cars, etc.), I never gave them much of a chance compared to my headphone obsession. I owned five figures worth of headphones and auditioned five figures worth of others on top of that, so you could say I've gotten a good idea of what headphones can do, and up until recently, I preferred their more intimate presentation.
  
 However...these $250 (I believe they were $400 for a pair when they first came out) speakers _completely_ outclass headphones. I _could_ say that I regret investing so many resources into headphones when they have been so utterly defeated by speakers that are many times more affordable...but I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't lived with all those headphones.
  
 People like to say that headphones are more detailed, but I must challenge this assertion. I hear all the same details (and possibly more, depending on how you look at it) from the speakers (even compared to the most resolving headphones); it's just that they're coming from many more places, with greater depth and subtlety, whereas headphones position everything next to (or in) your ears, making certain details more apparent. But that's not how things are in real life. (The original performance, I mean.)
  
 I think the "superior resolution and detail" of headphones is merely fake detail. When a harp, for example, is at the back of the stage and much softer than the rest of the orchestra, that's real detail, and speakers excel at emulating it; when it's right next to your ears and not much softer than the other instruments, but you can analyze it more clearly due to that, that's fake detail.
  
 Most importantly, the overall sound of the speakers is _far_ more realistic, like having the actual objects in the room making the sound. It's not just soundstage and imaging that account for this, but everything else: timbre, tone, texture, transients...the list goes on.
  
 Obviously, some of my statements here are ultimately subjective and just my opinion, so I have no problem with others disagreeing.


----------



## Jimster480

music alchemist said:


> I'm having trouble putting it into words, honestly. I will say that I did not find its sound to be noteworthy. Perhaps that's why I am hesitant to be more specific. I wouldn't bother pursuing it, especially due to its rarity and high power requirements.
> 
> And now it's time for one of my signature rants! :bigsmile_face:
> 
> ...



Well man thanks a lot for the very long post it's very informative. I am going to surely check out those speakers now. I have a pair of Klipsch R-15PM


----------



## Music Alchemist

Concerning a rep comment... I never said the JBL speakers were "elite" (they're pretty cheap...); I said I have become a speaker elitist, as in I prefer speakers and look down on headphones now.
  


jimster480 said:


> Well man thanks a lot for the very long post it's very informative. I am going to surely check out those speakers now. I have a pair of Klipsch R-15PM


 
  
 Please note that I am a near-total novice when it comes to speakers. I have no idea how mine compare to others in their price range. But I did buy them because they seem to be one of the most well-regarded active monitors. As it is now, the low frequencies radiate through the furniture and walls too much since they're not separated. My speaker stands (Samson MS200) haven't come in, so they're just sitting on the table. No EQ or room treatments yet either. So with each of those tweaks, they're sure to sound even better.


----------



## Exidrion

In the interest of being a good Samaritan and having been on this forum for nearly a decade, I strongly encourage others to take Musical Alchemists posts and advice with a gigantic grain of salt.


----------



## Jimster480

music alchemist said:


> Concerning a rep comment... I never said the JBL speakers were "elite" (they're pretty cheap...); I said I have become a speaker elitist, as in I prefer speakers and look down on headphones now.
> 
> 
> Please note that I am a near-total novice when it comes to speakers. I have no idea how mine compare to others in their price range. But I did buy them because they seem to be one of the most well-regarded active monitors. As it is now, the low frequencies radiate through the furniture and walls too much since they're not separated. My speaker stands (Samson MS200) haven't come in, so they're just sitting on the table. No EQ or room treatments yet either. So with each of those tweaks, they're sure to sound even better.


 

 Well I can always buy a set, compare them with the R-15PM's and see which are better and sell the JBL if they aren't as good.
 I need a second set of monitors for my new house anyway as I will have them setup in my office with a TV and everything in a nice switched setup with proper DAC's and stuff.


----------



## Music Alchemist

exidrion said:


> In the interest of being a good Samaritan and having been on this forum for nearly a decade, I strongly encourage others to take Musical Alchemists posts and advice with a gigantic grain of salt.


 
  
 If you disagree with something I have said, feel free to explain how you feel I am wrong. But saying what you've said without clarifying is little more than mud-slinging.


----------



## Paladin79

music alchemist said:


> If you disagree with something I have said, feel free to explain how you feel I am wrong. But saying what you've said without clarifying is little more than mud-slinging.


 
 I fail to see what this has to do with being an owner of Schiit products. Maybe there is a thread on here that would be more applicable and if not, maybe there is a site dedicated to those who prefer speakers to headphones. I like both but I do not sit around trolling about it.


----------



## Jimster480

paladin79 said:


> I fail to see what this has to do with being an owner of Schiit products. Maybe there is a thread on here that would be more applicable and if not, maybe there is a site dedicated to those who prefer speakers to headphones. I like both but I do not sit around trolling about it.


 

 But people will use their Schiit with speakers or headphones!


----------



## Paladin79

That is partially true and it is a bit of a stretch.


----------



## FLTWS

Doesn't the introduction of Vidar and the fact that Schiit doesn't make speakers introduce them into the conversation now?
 Schiit is no longer a manufacturer of DACS and headphone amps and preamps only.


----------



## Music Alchemist

paladin79 said:


> I fail to see what this has to do with being an owner of Schiit products. Maybe there is a thread on here that would be more applicable and if not, maybe there is a site dedicated to those who prefer speakers to headphones. I like both but I do not sit around trolling about it.


 
  
 If you had read the thread, you would have known that I use the speakers with the Fulla 2 and even discussed an issue I was having. Plenty of others in this thread have posted comparisons between speakers and headphones, even recently. If you have a problem with me talking about speakers here, then logically you should also have a problem with those who talk about headphones here.
  
 The issue is that he basically said, "I don't like Music Alchemist" (actually, he got my user name wrong, but whatever) without supporting the argument with anything. So someone posts a personal attack and you're fine with that even though it's against the rules, yet you accuse _me_ of trolling when I post my honest audio impressions that are not much different than countless others in this thread? Alrighty then.
  


jimster480 said:


> But people will use their Schiit with speakers or headphones!


 
  
 I happen to have no problem with the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for speakers, whereas I think it sounds mediocre as a headphone amp. (Especially compared to the Chord Mojo.)
  


fltws said:


> Doesn't the introduction of Vidar and the fact that Schiit doesn't make speakers introduce them into the conversation now?
> Schiit is no longer a manufacturer of DACS and headphone amps and preamps only.


 
  
 Good point. And the Ragnarok is a speaker amp too.


----------



## Eric510

music alchemist said:


> If you had read the thread, you would have known that I use the speakers with the Fulla 2 and even discussed an issue I was having. Plenty of others in this thread have posted comparisons between speakers and headphones, even recently. If you have a problem with me talking about speakers here, then logically you should also have a problem with those who talk about headphones here.
> 
> The issue is that he basically said, "I don't like Music Alchemist" (actually, he got my user name wrong, but whatever) without supporting the argument with anything. So someone posts a personal attack and you're fine with that even though it's against the rules, yet you accuse _me_ of trolling when I post my honest audio impressions that are not much different than countless others in this thread? Alrighty then.
> 
> ...




Honestly, I think the issue some of us have is that it sounds like you have an axe to grind against headphones and, well, this is head-fi and we kind of like being positive about headphones. And, Schiit's wheel house IS headphone amps. AND, this is a Schiit unity forum... like, we kind of wanna talk about our communal love of both those things. Maybe you'd have better reception in the Fulla impression forum? In that sorta setting it's all about pros and cons. Here tho, I always had the feeling it was about excentuating the positivity. 

Not looking to pick a fight - just trying to explain how some might be feeling.


----------



## Music Alchemist

eric510 said:


> Honestly, I think the issue some of us have is that it sounds like you have an axe to grind against headphones and, well, this is head-fi and we kind of like being positive about headphones. And, Schiit's wheel house IS headphone amps. AND, this is a Schiit unity forum... like, we kind of wanna talk about our communal love of both those things. Maybe you'd have better reception in the Fulla impression forum? In that sorta setting it's all about pros and cons. Here tho, I always had the feeling it was about excentuating the positivity.
> 
> Not looking to pick a fight - just trying to explain how some might be feeling.


 
  
 In case you missed this part:
  


music alchemist said:


> I owned five figures worth of headphones and auditioned five figures worth of others on top of that, so you could say I've gotten a good idea of what headphones can do, and up until recently, I preferred their more intimate presentation.


 
  
 I've made thousands of posts about headphones, with quite a few of them being nothing but positive. I have the right to criticize them, because I've gone down that road for years and invested considerable resources into procuring (or otherwise hearing) them, and no one has the right to demand that I be only positive towards them. I don't care what it is, whether it's a headphone or speaker: when something comes along that outperforms what I've heard before, I'm going to be happy and positive about it. I am honest and share my subjective experiences. That is all. If that upsets others and they choose to interpret my words as putting down something they like, that's not my problem. At any rate, I've barely made any specific criticisms of headphones in this particular thread. I've gone into far greater detail about all sorts of headphones in various other threads. All I've really said here is that my speakers sound better to me than all the headphones I've heard. (An opinion that plenty of others have shared here.) What do you want me to do: lie and say they don't sound better to me? It's not like I don't love headphones too. I do! Music is my life. All my audio buddies (who I talk to via PM) have been happy for me that I found something I like more, even when I basically told them the same thing I've said here. They weren't offended that I like these more than headphones. I don't see why anyone should be.


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> All I've really said here is that my speakers sound better to me than all the headphones I've heard. (An opinion that plenty of others have shared here.) What do you want me to do: lie and say they don't sound better to me? It's not like I don't love headphones too. I do! Music is my life. All my audio buddies (who I talk to via PM) have been happy for me that I found something I like more, even when I basically told them the same thing I've said here. They weren't offended that I like these more than headphones. I don't see why anyone should be.


 
  
 I have no idea what people are getting all excited about here. First, I can't see anything that Music Alchemist has written as controversial enough to cause criticism. Second, speakers do sound more realistic and natural than headphones. Which, to me, means speakers sound better than headphones. Quality speakers can have as much detail as headphones too. Generally, you are going to spend a lot more on preamps, amps, and speakers to get that quality sound. But it is available.
  
 That doesn't means speakers are better than headphones for all people in all situations. And it doesn't mean headphones sound bad. I prefer to listen to speakers when I can. But I often listen to headphones because sometimes I need to be quiet. I do enjoy listening to both speakers and headphones.


----------



## Jimster480

winders said:


> I have no idea what people are getting all excited about here. First, I can't see anything that Music Alchemist has written as controversial enough to cause criticism. Second, speakers do sound more realistic and natural than headphones. Which, to me, means speakers sound better than headphones. Quality speakers can have as much detail as headphones too. Generally, you are going to spend a lot more on preamps, amps, and speakers to get that quality sound. But it is available.
> 
> That doesn't means speakers are better than headphones for all people in all situations. And it doesn't mean headphones sound bad. I prefer to listen to speakers when I can. But I often listen to headphones because sometimes I need to be quiet. I do enjoy listening to both speakers and headphones.




I also agree, as I tend to listen to speakers alot more than headphones. Atleast until recently. 
These days with my son and family around all the time I need to be isolated. 
Otherwise I have always listened to speakers and in my new house I'll have some nice speakers for my office, and even my bathroom.


----------



## EElegances

OMG, what has happened that only ego and bickering fly. Everyone is right. No need to prove it.


----------



## Music Alchemist

Does anyone know how the Modi Multibit compares to the iFi micro iDSD?
  
 As mentioned, I've been using the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for speakers. I'm going to get RCA to XLR cables to use my iDSD as a DAC/preamp and see how it compares. But I'm curious whether the Modi Multibit would be even better.


----------



## Reputator

jimster480 said:


> I also agree, as I tend to listen to speakers alot more than headphones. Atleast until recently.
> These days with my son and family around all the time I need to be isolated.
> Otherwise I have always listened to speakers and in my new house I'll have some nice speakers for my office, and even my bathroom.


 
  
 I mostly just keep a subwoofer in my bathroom.
  
  
 Don't think about that one too hard.


----------



## Paladin79

I definitely listen to both speakers and headphones, when shopping for a Schiit amp I chose the Valhalla 2 because of the preamp out and I like being able to roll tubes and change the sound slightly.


----------



## Jimster480

music alchemist said:


> Does anyone know how the Modi Multibit compares to the iFi micro iDSD?
> 
> As mentioned, I've been using the Fulla 2 as a DAC/preamp for speakers. I'm going to get RCA to XLR cables to use my iDSD as a DAC/preamp and see how it compares. But I'm curious whether the Modi Multibit would be even better.


 

 Most likely it would be.
 I mean not to be the Chi-Fi advocate here but with things like the Topping D30 and many FiiO products being so good I would say that the iDSD wouldn't be better than the Fulla2 for DAC/Pre-Amp output and if you just want a DAC check out the D30 unless you are going to spend the $250 for the Modi Multibit (if you buy now they still have black in stock too).


----------



## pelli

Schiit plays well with speakers...


----------



## sludgeogre

eric510 said:


> Honestly, I think the issue some of us have is that it sounds like you have an axe to grind against headphones and, well, this is head-fi and we kind of like being positive about headphones. And, Schiit's wheel house IS headphone amps. AND, this is a Schiit unity forum... like, we kind of wanna talk about our communal love of both those things. Maybe you'd have better reception in the Fulla impression forum? In that sorta setting it's all about pros and cons. Here tho, I always had the feeling it was about excentuating the positivity.
> 
> Not looking to pick a fight - just trying to explain how some might be feeling.


 
 He has no axe to grind. He has thousands of posts over what he prefers with headphones, he's just enjoying speakers a lot and prefers them now. People like different stuff. People change. People in this thread need to stop taking people's opinion's as "axes to grind". He's still using a Fulla 2 over much more expensive equipment he could have kept. Doesn't that speak a lot to the quality of Schiit gear?
  
 Anyway, I love my speakers, and in fact prefer them to headphones in general as well, but that doesn't change the fact that I still very much enjoy my Schiit stack, and it shouldn't prevent anyone else from loving theirs as well.
  
 I think more people are discovering how great they can make a personal desktop speaker system sound, which is why Schiit has developed things like the SYS which became so popular that they dove into two channel, dedicated, high quality preamps and speaker amps. Once people discovered all that Multibit can do for imaging on a set of speakers, it really opened the doors wide up for Schiit gear.
  
 All I wanted to say is it's all a journey, and it's all dictated by your own preferences and what kind of listening environment you're given. I'm glad that Schiit's gear is flexible enough that it covers all the bases except home theater.


----------



## Fearless1

I don't think it is the content that gets her/him frequently in arguments as much as the way he/she speaks to others on this forum and pushes his/her own preferences with a blatant lack of respect for what others have to say. 

 I know that is why I leave most threads when the said appears, but some threads are important to my pursuits and I stand steadfast and cringe.


----------



## Jimster480

fearless1 said:


> I don't think it is the content that gets her/him frequently in arguments as much as the way he/she speaks to others on this forum and pushes his/her own preferences with a blatant lack of respect for what others have to say.
> 
> I know that is why I leave most threads when the said appears, but some threads are important to my pursuits and I stand steadfast and cringe.


 

 I think that its fine to make whatever recommendations you want.
 I see people recommending stupid cables and loving tube amps even though I think that tube amps are stupid and that cables do nothing.

 I don't get raged at people for believing in myths or for spending tons of money on audio equipment only to ruin the sound with tubes but to each their own.
  
 You can't get upset at other peoples opinions because listening is subjective. I personally plan to use my newly ordered Mimby with speakers and If I decide to keep my Fulla2 it will be driving speakers on my second desktop setup in my new home.


----------



## Music Alchemist

fearless1 said:


> I don't think it is the content that gets her/him frequently in arguments as much as the way he/she speaks to others on this forum and pushes his/her own preferences with a blatant lack of respect for what others have to say.
> 
> I know that is why I leave most threads when the said appears, but some threads are important to my pursuits and I stand steadfast and cringe.


 
  
 I find it quite ironic that you put things this way. Indeed: It's not what you say; it's how you say it. But nearly everything you've ever said to (or about) me has been a sarcastic insult. You could have just supported your standpoints with coherent arguments...or even simply stated your own preferences. I wouldn't have held it against you.
  
 I'm not trying to pick any fights either. Like I have already said, I share my subjective experiences. You phrase it as pushing my preferences, but what else can I do? I'm not someone else; I'm me. The only perspective I can speak from (as far as my impressions go) is my own. (Sometimes I may cite others' impressions for reference.)
  
 I don't have a lack of respect for what others say; it's just that it's often not relevant to me. If I dislike something and someone else likes it, or vice versa, what can be done? All we can do is share our experiences. If they are not in agreement, well, that's life.


----------



## winders

music alchemist said:


> I find it quite ironic that you put things this way. Indeed: It's not what you say; it's how you say it. But nearly everything you've ever said to (or about) me has been a sarcastic insult. You could have just supported your standpoints with coherent arguments...or even simply stated your own preferences. I wouldn't have held it against you.
> 
> I'm not trying to pick any fights either. Like I have already said, I share my subjective experiences. You phrase it as pushing my preferences, but what else can I do? I'm not someone else; I'm me. The only perspective I can speak from (as far as my impressions go) is my own. (Sometimes I may cite others' impressions for reference.)
> 
> I don't have a lack of respect for what others say; it's just that it's often not relevant to me. If I dislike something and someone else likes it, or vice versa, what can be done? All we can do is share our experiences. If they are not in agreement, well, that's life.


 

 Don't worry about it. If people can't deal with your opinion not matching up with theirs, that is their problem. You shouldn't have to sugar coat everything to please people. What kind of world are we living in now that has to be so damn sensitive??


----------



## pelli

How about we all pause this convo. and get back on topic!


----------



## artur9

reputator said:


> I mostly just keep a subwoofer in my bathroom.


 
  
 Is that to help out by using the brown note?  I think there are more _organic_ solutions for that problem.
  


jimster480 said:


> I personally plan to use my newly ordered Mimby with speakers


 
 I use my UberFrost with speakers and haven't found anything that sounds better.  Tried several different things.  The Schiit haus sound is great and extremely pleasing to me.
  


pelli said:


> How about we all pause this convo. and get back on topic!


 
 I have never understood exactly what the topic of this thread is?  Keyboards, mice that make noise through headphones, speakers, Vidar, Norse mythology - we got it all.  Waiting for some Schiit stuff named after Valkyries - she was one of my favorite Marvel characters.


----------



## pelli

I have never understood exactly what the topic of this thread is?  Keyboards, mice that make noise through headphones, speakers, Vidar, Norse mythology - we got it all.  Waiting for some Schiit stuff named after Valkyries - she was one of my favorite Marvel characters.
[/quote]

True, this has become quite the Schiitshow. I just wish people would stop "acting very undude" as they say in the Big Lebowski


----------



## Fearless1

I subscribe to be united with the other Schiit-heads! The Yggy is an amazing sounding DAC!


----------



## Paladin79

fearless1 said:


> I subscribe to be united with the other Schiit-heads! The Yggy is an amazing sounding DAC!


 
 I will be adding a dac to my work setup, I will have to check out the Yggy. I will probably hook it to a Bottlehead Crack at some point.


----------



## Letmebefrank

paladin79 said:


> I will be adding a dac to my work setup, I will have to check out the Yggy. I will probably hook it to a Bottlehead Crack at some point.




Tom if you get an Yggy I'll bring you any beer you want for a listen!


----------



## Paladin79

letmebefrank said:


> Tom if you get an Yggy I'll bring you any beer you want for a listen!


 
 Frank, my favorite is a quadruple Belgian but a triple Belgian Taxman might suffice. You have to hear my headphone mods anyway and I want to compare them to your 650's.
  We can do that after hours at work and you will not have a long drive.
  
 Check out the equipment list Fearless1 has Frank, most impressive, I need to start catching up a bit.


----------



## mysticstryk

If anyone is interested in a stack of black Schiit, I currently have both my Asgard 2 and Bifrost 4490 (both in black) up in the for sale forums. 

Not leaving the Schiit camp though. Upgrading to a Gumby!


----------



## Letmebefrank

paladin79 said:


> Frank, my favorite is a quadruple Belgian but a triple Belgian Taxman might suffice. You have to hear my headphone mods anyway and I want to compare them to your 650's.
> We can do that after hours at work and you will not have a long drive.
> 
> Check out the equipment list Fearless1 has Frank, most impressive, I need to start catching up a bit.




Wow yeah very impressive! I usually give my old stuff to friends so I don't really have much of a collection, but the list of speaker tower pairs I've owned is in the dozens before I bought my Klipsch towers which I've had for about 6 years now. I'll PM you about the specifics to get together.


----------



## Bikerider1001

Is anyone using the Fulla 2 with a lightning-cabled iPhone?
  
 If so, what adapter(s) are you using?
  
 We're locked down tighter than *redacted* at work and my iTunes playlist is getting a little old so I'm forced to stream over my phone. It'll also lighten my load when I'm travelling.
  
 Thanks for any input.


----------



## Jimster480

bikerider1001 said:


> Is anyone using the Fulla 2 with a lightning-cabled iPhone?
> 
> If so, what adapter(s) are you using?
> 
> ...


 
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N77VPS3/
  
 This is the one I use. It works with the Fulla2 but you may need external power.


----------



## Bikerider1001

jimster480 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N77VPS3/
> 
> This is the one I use. It works with the Fulla2 but you may need external power.


 
 Thanks.
  
 Which iOs are you using? The description says it won't work with 10.3.


----------



## Jimster480

bikerider1001 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Which iOs are you using? The description says it won't work with 10.3.


 
 How do I find that out?
 Its the latest one I think, I have an iPod touch 6G and its fully updated.


----------



## Bikerider1001

jimster480 said:


> How do I find that out?
> Its the latest one I think, I have an iPod touch 6G and its fully updated.


 
 Go to Settings-->General-->About--> and scroll down to "Version"


----------



## Jimster480

bikerider1001 said:


> Go to Settings-->General-->About--> and scroll down to "Version"


 
 10.2.1
  
 it says I am upto date.


----------



## Bikerider1001

jimster480 said:


> 10.2.1
> 
> it says I am upto date.


 
 Interesting. I have an iPhone 6 and I am up to 10.3.1
  
 Thanks for all of your help!


----------



## Music Alchemist

To those using speakers: You owe it to yourself to try the Schiit SYS passive preamp.
  
 For me, it's one big "oh my GOD" moment. A few times the improvements actually frightened me because they were so viciously expressive. I had no idea it was possible to make the system you already have sound so much better just by bypassing the amp in DAC/amp/preamps to use them in DAC only mode.
  
 Can't wait to try it with the Modi Multibit once it arrives next week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My only complaint is that the tight volume knob requires more physical force and is nowhere near as smooth and fun to rotate as the ones on the Fulla 2 and iFi micro iDSD...but hey, it's just fifty bucks.
  
 Edit: Just now I jumped up because I thought someone broke into the house...but it was just the music.


----------



## sludgeogre

music alchemist said:


> To those using speakers: You owe it to yourself to try the Schiit SYS passive preamp.


 
  I had the same experience when I bought it for a smaller system. Very transparent. It's crazy how some volume knobs alone cost hundreds of dollars and that thing gets the job done for 50 bucks. Glad you got the multibit too, it is worth it.
  
 Quote:


music alchemist said:


> Edit: Just now I jumped up because I thought someone broke into the house...but it was just the music.


 
 That's when you know you have a good system. Happens to me all the time.


----------



## Mike Foley

Another SYS fan here. Great value piece of kit. Far more transparent than the old Quad I was using. Getting Saga next week, but I am sure I'll find a use for SYS with the new preamp.


----------



## Letmebefrank

I'm also very satisfied with my SYS. I'm using it in reverse; one in two out. As long as you keep the volume maxed it works perfectly. I use it after my Mimby to switch between Jotunheim and SMSL SA-50.


----------



## Music Alchemist

The SYS makes even more of a difference with the micro iDSD in direct mode than it does with the Fulla 2. (With the iDSD in DAC/preamp mode, it alters the sound a little _too_ much, though it is a fun sound signature.)
  
 I had a clever idea: connect an RCA to female 3.5 mm cable to the SYS to drive headphones directly from DACs without using a headphone amp. The Modi Multibit outputs two volts, which is more than enough for most headphones...but I'm not sure about the current. It's not a priority, but something I'd like to try sometime out of curiosity.


----------



## esung

Any huge differences between the Modi Multibit and the Bifrost Multibit? (Pairing with a Lyr 2/LCD-2 combo)


----------



## captkirk

esung said:


> Any huge differences between the Modi Multibit and the Bifrost Multibit? (Pairing with a Lyr 2/LCD-2 combo)


 

 Arguably....no.  Have both and the difference is negligible; perhaps a slight favor to the Bimby - though it would depend on how transparent your rig is down the chain.  It's that good; shockingly good value.


----------



## Music Alchemist (Apr 27, 2017)

This Schiit is pilin' up! 





(I don't normally stack them like this. heh)

The Modi Multibit far exceeded my expectations. Once it's warmed up, so many recordings I'm familiar with literally sound like they've been rerecorded! (I leave it turned on.)

When "objectivists" claim all DACs sound the same, I'm just like:






Unfortunately, mine crackles and distorts sometimes, so Schiit is going to replace it.


----------



## Wonc

Hi, im new to audiophile world and this website as well, so i am lack with the basic informations on rolling my gears.
So i have a question for you guys..


I recently bought second hand vahalla 2 from audiogon and modi2 uber + vali 2 stack for me and my fiance. (so that we can listen to same music)

Since im broke after buying these gears at once, i am using my westone w50 iem and Earsonic ES3 for now. I am eye rolling on some cans that are mentioned here.

anyway, when i was setting vahalla 2 amp, i feel like the taller tubes are kinda loose, comparing to other tubes (or tube sockets) of vali 2 and vahalla 2's short tubes.

Is this normal? Tubes are not moving around, but i cannot say they are snug as other tubes.
(lets say in scale of 1 to 5, i have to push short tubes with force of 3 or 4. However taller tubes are 1; if i push it sideway with slight force, it will move).


If this is not normal,

Should i send it back to the seller? or sending it to schiit?

I rather sending it back to schiit for the repair, as i dont want to look around other buying options..

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Paladin79

Personally I would just use a sharp pick to tighten the sockets but the style used on the Valhalla 2 makes that tough to do. I just checked my Valhalla 2 and it takes about the same force to move the tall tubes as the short ones.

 Perhaps someone did a lot of tube rolling with that amp? If the amp plays fine I doubt i would worry about it myself.

if you had issues down the road most anyone competent in electronics could change the sockets out for you.


----------



## FLTWS

That's the way I'd handle it.


----------



## johnjen

An additional thought to consider.

IF that amp was heavily tube rolled and the socket is 'looser' than stock as a result, the next step I'd take is to clean the tubes pins and the socket connections for the amp.

I'd be willing to bet that a whole bunch of crud will come off them all.
And the SQ should take a step up as a result.

JJ


----------



## Wonc

Thanks guys. 
ya it didnt have problem running, but just worried me it doesnt work in the way as it intended to, as i dont have a new one out of the box.

 but i cleaned the pins with cotton tips with 99% alcohol (Thanks johnjen) and now it is snug like others.

With my close examination, the pins seemed even cleaner than the other tubes'.. so im knida confused what i actually wiped out of it?
or wasnt i pushing them in enough before? However my valhalla 2 worked fine..?


Anyway thanks for all the opinions! and

Would do more for some answers for my curiousity?







Paladin79 said:


> Personally I would just use a sharp pick to tighten the sockets but the style used on the Valhalla 2 makes that tough to do. I just checked my Valhalla 2 and it takes about the same force to move the tall tubes as the short ones.
> 
> Perhaps someone did a lot of tube rolling with that amp? If the amp plays fine I doubt i would worry about it myself.
> 
> if you had issues down the road most anyone competent in electronics could change the sockets out for you.





FLTWS said:


> That's the way I'd handle it.





johnjen said:


> An additional thought to consider.
> 
> IF that amp was heavily tube rolled and the socket is 'looser' than stock as a result, the next step I'd take is to clean the tubes pins and the socket connections for the amp.
> 
> ...


----------



## Paladin79

Wonc said:


> Thanks guys.
> ya it didnt have problem running, but just worried me it doesnt work in the way as it intended to, as i dont have a new one out of the box.
> 
> but i cleaned the pins with cotton tips with 99% alcohol (Thanks johnjen) and now it is snug like others.
> ...


All's well that ends well. Enjoy the amp.


----------



## FLTWS

Wonc said:


> ...
> With my close examination, the pins seemed even cleaner than the other tubes'.. so im knida confused what i actually wiped out of it?
> or wasnt i pushing them in enough before? However my valhalla 2 worked fine..?
> ...



If the previous owner did some tube rolling the friction of pushing and pulling the pins in and out of the socket sleeves can clean them a bit.

Proper seating in the tube socket may have been the issue if they were already looking clean.


----------



## Jacobh

Wonc said:


> anyway, when i was setting vahalla 2 amp, i feel like the taller tubes are kinda loose, comparing to other tubes (or tube sockets) of vali 2 and vahalla 2's short tubes.



I have a newly purchased Valhalla 2 that behaves the same way.  The power tubes don't move on their own, but they don't sit completely flat so they will move side to side easily.  I didn't see any visual issues with the sockets and it's not having any impact on performance, so I assumed it was just an issue with the bottom of the tube not being completely flat or the pins being a bit narrower than the driver tubes.  I'll try the driver tubes in those sockets and see if it makes a difference.  The driver tubes will not move at all side to side.

So the short answer is this seems normal based on my unit.


----------



## Jacobh

Just to confirm - I tried a driver tube in one the power tube socket and it fit snugly with no movement.  So, the "looseness" is from the power tubes, not the sockets in my case.


----------



## artur9

I think Schiit should offer stickers of their products using their graphic style.  So, a sticker for Bifrost representing the bridge, Yggy with a tree, etc.

Since they don't seem willing to satisfy our cravings for t-shirts maybe stickers would work?


----------



## Music Alchemist

artur9 said:


> I think Schiit should offer stickers of their products using their graphic style.  So, a sticker for Bifrost representing the bridge, Yggy with a tree, etc.
> 
> Since they don't seem willing to satisfy our cravings for t-shirts maybe stickers would work?



You can submit graphics to companies that make things like that.


----------



## artur9

Music Alchemist said:


> You can submit graphics to companies that make things like that.


But I have no talent.


----------



## Music Alchemist

artur9 said:


> But I have no talent.



I meant graphics that are already available online.


----------



## DeryckG

I have recently purchased a pair of Sennheiser HD650's and am loving them. Right now I'm just using them with my Fulla 2 (what a difference between my PC and the Fulla, much more clear through Fulla). I am looking to get a dedicated amp though and am looking into the Valhalla 2.

All I've been able to find is that the Valhalla is 'neutral'. Can someone who owns a Valhalla 2 explain a little more, is it neutral in general or just not as tubey sounding as other tube amps? I've never had a tube amp so I actually don't want something very tubey, just looking to add a little warmth and smooth out the treble.


----------



## Hawkertempest

I have had Schiit for some time now and love it. Today I bit the bullet and finally pulled the trigger and upgraded my  Magni 2 Uber. I hadn't been able to get a filtered power supply for it and I didn't want to spend that sort of money on it either.
  So in the next few weeks I will have a nice new piece of Schiit, a Ragnarok to listen to, which has cost me a new pair of Audio Physic "Compact" Glass Speakers as well to complement it. Cannot wait to hear what my T1's and B&W's are going to sound like through this baby when it beds in.


----------



## emjen

Music Alchemist said:


> To those using speakers: You owe it to yourself to try the Schiit SYS passive preamp.
> 
> For me, it's one big "oh my GOD" moment. A few times the improvements actually frightened me because they were so viciously expressive. I had no idea it was possible to make the system you already have sound so much better just by bypassing the amp in DAC/amp/preamps to use them in DAC only mode.
> 
> ...



I Just ordered the Magni Uber Modi 2 stack, because i Will use speakers. I think they will be able to run my monitors. But i have two questions:

What would a SYS do, if my monitors are already working?

What if thr Magni is unable to run my speakers? What would i do? Get new speakers? Another Amp? Eh?


----------



## Music Alchemist (May 23, 2017)

emjen said:


> I Just ordered the Magni Uber Modi 2 stack, because i Will use speakers. I think they will be able to run my monitors. But i have two questions:
> 
> What would a SYS do, if my monitors are already working?
> 
> What if thr Magni is unable to run my speakers? What would i do? Get new speakers? Another Amp? Eh?



The SYS is a passive preamp. You can use it to control the volume of active speakers, among other things. The Magni 2 Uber can also be used as a preamp for active speakers, so if you already bought that, you don't need the SYS. On the other hand, if you only use speakers and not headphones, you'd be better off with the SYS. But neither of them actually drive speakers. If you are using passive speakers, you need a speaker amp.


----------



## ThurstonX (May 23, 2017)

*
Rage, rage against the dying of the light...*​
or just accept a flickering LED?  Noticed the USB LED on my Bifrost is flickering or going out for a few seconds, then coming back on, all very intermittent.  Since it's been upgraded to multibit I leave it on 24/7, save for the odd power outage.  And since it's always on USB, I reckon I've abused the poor li'l light.

Anyone else ever experienced this?  Playback is unaffected, so it's just a minor annoyance, and certainly not worth shipping back for a third time.  If it finally dies, I could put a glow-in-the-dark sticker there.  It gets plenty of early light to charge up for night time viewing 

 On to happier Schiit... *really* been enjoying _Schiit Happened_.  Jason's writing style and the tale he tells make for a good read.


My Morse code foo may be lacking, but I'm sure I caught my MultiFrost flashing this message:

*The Bifrost is not the DAC you're looking for.
Time to upgrade to a Yggy *​
Impish schiity Jedi mind trix!


----------



## StanD

ThurstonX said:


> *Rage, rage against the dying of the light...*​
> or just accept a flickering LED?  Noticed the USB LED on my Bifrost is flickering or going out for a few seconds, then coming back on, all very intermittent.  Since it's been upgraded to multibit I leave it on 24/7, save for the odd power outage.  And since it's always on USB, I reckon I've abused the poor li'l light.
> 
> Anyone else ever experienced this?  Playback is unaffected, so it's just a minor annoyance, and certainly not worth shipping back for a third time.  If it finally dies, I could put a glow-in-the-dark sticker there.  It gets plenty of early light to charge up for night time viewing
> ...


Sounds like some monkey business.


----------



## emjen

Okay, it seems that in my enthusiasm i bought the mm stack because it would drive speakers, before realizing they only drive active speakers.

What would be the best option? Get a good pair of active speakers? Just go for those kef egg shaped bluetooth desktop speakers that i could plug in as well? Return the magni for a better amp that Will drive passive speakers?

crap.


----------



## emjen

So; here are my impressions of the Schiit Magni Uber 2/Modi 2 and Sennheiser hd598 and hd650.

Not really worth it. I mean; it sounds pretty good. But I hardly notice any difference straight from my imac. The hd650 is drivable, but it can't quite punch through the so called 'veil' everyone is talking about. It can't bring up the bass enough. The 598's have a 'background bass' which I would like to be a bit more punchy; but that's both the headphone's and the schiit's fault. 

Can i return them with the reason "I can't tell the difference"? Do I wait for another headphone?

Lesson learned: get an amp with 'bass boost' options, because equalizer software is crap on mac.


----------



## Charente

emjen said:


> So; here are my impressions of the Schiit Magni Uber 2/Modi 2 and Sennheiser hd598 and hd650.
> 
> Not really worth it. I mean; it sounds pretty good. But I hardly notice any difference straight from my imac. The hd650 is drivable, but it can't quite punch through the so called 'veil' everyone is talking about. It can't bring up the bass enough. The 598's have a 'background bass' which I would like to be a bit more punchy; but that's both the headphone's and the schiit's fault.
> 
> ...



If you like 'lots' of bass then I suspect the HD-650 may be the problem for you. Depends on your music as well, I guess. My setup (see sig) gets rid of most of the 'veil' on my Senns, bass is better defined... could do with a bit more articulation in the sub-bass but I put that down to the phones. I read that the Focal Elear are like the HD-650, if you like that sound type...but better bass... not cheap tho'. Alternatively. HiFiMan HE560 perhaps ? YMMV.


----------



## MWSVette

emjen said:


> So; here are my impressions of the Schiit Magni Uber 2/Modi 2 and Sennheiser hd598 and hd650.
> 
> Not really worth it. I mean; it sounds pretty good. But I hardly notice any difference straight from my imac. The hd650 is drivable, but it can't quite punch through the so called 'veil' everyone is talking about. It can't bring up the bass enough. The 598's have a 'background bass' which I would like to be a bit more punchy; but that's both the headphone's and the schiit's fault.
> 
> ...



You may wish to check out the HD598Cs closed back.  I find it has a little more bass than the original HD598.

IMHO, YMMV, yada, yada, yada...


----------



## Left Channel (Jul 11, 2017)

emjen said:


> Okay, it seems that in my enthusiasm i bought the mm stack because it would drive speakers, before realizing they only drive active speakers.
> 
> What would be the best option? Get a good pair of active speakers? Just go for those kef egg shaped bluetooth desktop speakers that i could plug in as well? Return the magni for a better amp that Will drive passive speakers?
> 
> ****.





emjen said:


> So; here are my impressions of the Schiit Magni Uber 2/Modi 2 and Sennheiser hd598 and hd650.
> 
> Not really worth it. I mean; it sounds pretty good. But I hardly notice any difference straight from my imac. The hd650 is drivable, but it can't quite punch through the so called 'veil' everyone is talking about. It can't bring up the bass enough. The 598's have a 'background bass' which I would like to be a bit more punchy; but that's both the headphone's and the schiit's fault.
> 
> ...



You should _not _have to use software equalization. All Schiit products do a good job of reproducing the full range of nice clear sound, and I think you should focus more on the ear end of the chain for the bass and punchiness you're seeking.

Try closed back headphones instead. I highly recommend the Sony MDR-Z7. Those 'phones are right up there in price and audiophile quality with similar Sennheisers cans. And hey, they both start with an "S".  For speakers, I'd stay away from those KEF egg things. They do not have the right inputs, so you'd be forced to bypass your Modi. If you have your heart set on KEFs, look for a different powered pair with RCA jacks so you can pass sound through your Modi and the preamp of your Magni 2U. JBL speakers are good too, among others. Personally I recommend you take a look at the PSB Alpha 1-100 active speakers and sub for amazing bass and power from a small package.

All of the above would cost less than upgrading from your Magni to a $1699 Ragnarok, and probably do far more to make your inner "bass head" very happy. OK?  Please let us know what you try next.


----------



## LustLoveLuck

hey guys getting static issue with my asgard2/bifrost uber stack.. when i switch the rca cables to the opposite color on either the amp or dac the static switches earcups. USB not connected at all and the static is still present. what gives? I've contacted schiit twice and they have not even replied at all.


----------



## Letmebefrank

LustLoveLuck said:


> hey guys getting static issue with my asgard2/bifrost uber stack.. when i switch the rca cables to the opposite color on either the amp or dac the static switches earcups. USB not connected at all and the static is still present. what gives? I've contacted schiit twice and they have not even replied at all.



Have you filled out their support form? They generally reply within 24hrs, but my experience has been a reply within a few hours.


----------



## chef8489

Finally joined the family with a Mimby and a Vali 2. Had them for a few days and quite pleased with them.


----------



## MWSVette

chef8489 said:


> Finally joined the family with a Mimby and a Vali 2. Had them for a few days and quite pleased with them.



Welcome to the Schiit Club...


----------



## Music Alchemist

Using my SYS in reverse configuration now, with one input and two outputs. It's convenient this way since I can switch between headphones and speakers without having to switch cables.


----------



## FLTWS

LustLoveLuck said:


> hey guys getting static issue with my asgard2/bifrost uber stack.. when i switch the rca cables to the opposite color on either the amp or dac the static switches earcups. USB not connected at all and the static is still present. what gives? I've contacted schiit twice and they have not even replied at all.




Instead of using the form on the website generate your own E-Mail to tech@Schiit.com with pertinent info on your units and the problem. Their website form never worked for me (most likely my browser settings or some other aspect of my internet set up). I quickly figured this out and no issues since. I've exchanged about 2 dozen direct E-Mails with Schiit tech and sales and never failed to get a quick response. Keep in mind that as of today we got a long holiday weekend probably until Wednesday of next week in some cases.


----------



## jrflanne

LustLoveLuck said:


> hey guys getting static issue with my asgard2/bifrost uber stack.. when i switch the rca cables to the opposite color on either the amp or dac the static switches earcups. USB not connected at all and the static is still present. what gives? I've contacted schiit twice and they have not even replied at all.


You try different cables?


----------



## Charente

I have been thoroughly enjoying the GMB/MJ2 for the last few months ... an impressive sounding pairing. Initially, my source was a USB based Sonore microRendu powered by an UpTone UltraCap LPS-1 and this does produce superb results. However, I have been following various comments around Head-Fi about S/PDIF vs USB and have considered various options, particularly from the Singxer stable. A while ago I also came across a USB/S/PDIF interface in France ... the Armature Hercate (http://armature.audio/hecate-interface-usb/). This does look very similar to the Singxer F1 ... virtually identical, I would say.... but available as a European assembled product. I took the plunge and bought one to try (€209 from Audiophonics, their main distributor), together with an adapter cable so that I can power the unit separately, rather than rely on potentially noisy power from the MacMini. I used the UltraCap LPS-1 for this purpose that I already had powering the microRendu. I think separate power is the most important factor here. I wasn't expecting a massive improvement but was rather surprised at the result I heard. To my ears, through the GMB/MJ2, there is more detail, more air around the instruments, wider stage and better imaging. The presentation was, however, more forward with slightly less depth, giving a more 'intimate' feel to the music ... which is no bad thing for the Jazz I listen to. A well worthwhile experiment.... S/PDIF may very well turn out to be my preference ... I'll carry on listening for a while longer !


----------



## LustLoveLuck

jrflanne said:


> You try different cables?



Yes I tried 2 different set of rca cables. I just realized that when the bifrost is in USB input mode it has the static. The USB cord is not connected FYI . If I switch the input to one of the other 2 options there is no static.. but again, the static will switch ears if i reverse the red and white on the Asgard 2 or bifrost. I'm a bit confused by all this because I thought it would be a ground loop issue. But then why is there only static on USB input even without USB cable plugged in.


----------



## johnjen

That sounds like a warranty situation to me.

JJ


----------



## abirdie4me

I just got a Mimby to pair with my Jotunheim w/USB, was hoping to do some A/B comparisons to see if the multibit makes a big difference. Unfortunately, when I swap the usb cable from the Jot over to the Mimby I get a ton of noise. Same usb cable, plugged into the same port on my PC, when using the Jot's DAC it is virtually silent with no detectable noise. Does this sound like a defect with the Mimby? It's so bad I can't even get a feel for any sound differences, as all I can focus on is the extra noise?


----------



## Music Alchemist (Jul 2, 2017)

abirdie4me said:


> I just got a Mimby to pair with my Jotunheim w/USB, was hoping to do some A/B comparisons to see if the multibit makes a big difference. Unfortunately, when I swap the usb cable from the Jot over to the Mimby I get a ton of noise. Same usb cable, plugged into the same port on my PC, when using the Jot's DAC it is virtually silent with no detectable noise. Does this sound like a defect with the Mimby? It's so bad I can't even get a feel for any sound differences, as all I can focus on is the extra noise?



Can you describe the noise? I got crackling/popping (especially at the end of tracks) with both Modi Multibits I owned, but couldn't determine the cause. (Schiit couldn't either, as both were tested and they could not reproduce the problem.) It could be an issue with your system/computer.


----------



## johnjen

abirdie4me said:


> I just got a Mimby to pair with my Jotunheim w/USB, was hoping to do some A/B comparisons to see if the multibit makes a big difference. Unfortunately, when I swap the usb cable from the Jot over to the Mimby I get a ton of noise. Same usb cable, plugged into the same port on my PC, when using the Jot's DAC it is virtually silent with no detectable noise. Does this sound like a defect with the Mimby? It's so bad I can't even get a feel for any sound differences, as all I can focus on is the extra noise?


Does the noise continue after restarting both the Jot and Mimby and leaving the USB cable connected?
JJ


----------



## abirdie4me

Music Alchemist said:


> Can you describe the noise? I got crackling/popping (especially at the end of tracks) with both Modi Multibits I owned, but couldn't determine the cause. (Schiit couldn't either, as both were tested and they could not reproduce the problem.) It could be an issue with your system/computer.



It's basically static / hiss, with an occasional light cracking/pop. It happens all the time, weather music is playing or not.



johnjen said:


> Does the noise continue after restarting both the Jot and Mimby and leaving the USB cable connected?
> JJ



Unplugged both, left both plugged in for a day to make sure they are warmed up...nothing changes, always have a hiss coming from the Mimby USB. I went and bought an optical cable and that doesn't have the noise, so I used that to A/B with the internal DAC on the Jot. I've come to the conclusion that my ears aren't good enough to hear any difference between the 2 dacs, so I'm going to send the Mimby back. Very disappointed, was hoping/expecting a big change in sound from the Jot internal DAC.


----------



## Music Alchemist

abirdie4me said:


> It's basically static / hiss, with an occasional light cracking/pop. It happens all the time, weather music is playing or not.



If you have a laptop, you could try unplugging its power cable to see if that makes a difference.


----------



## abirdie4me

Music Alchemist said:


> If you have a laptop, you could try unplugging its power cable to see if that makes a difference.



Thanks, but I'm pretty sure since it's a problem with the USB input on the Mimby since the moving it over directly to the Jot has very little noise, if any. Also, the optical output on the Mimby has very little noise so I was able to do a fairly close comparison with the Jot USB DAC. The Mimby has slightly better separation, but not enough for me to justify spending $250 on it. I think I'll save up for a Gumby. The USB Jot already sounds good to me with either my Elear or TH-X00 (modded), so for now I'll just suppress my audiophile curiosities and be happy with what I have.


----------



## LustLoveLuck (Jul 6, 2017)

abirdie4me said:


> It's basically static / hiss, with an occasional light cracking/pop. It happens all the time, weather music is playing or not.



Hey abirdie4me. I'm having static issues with my bifrost of over 4 years. Static is present with usb/optical/coaxial input. Only the power cable and RCA is connected and the static is there. I have tried contacting schiit for a month now. They will not respond to me and it is making me extremely mad. I have spent nearly $1000 on this companies products and the customer service is actually dog crap. Excuse my language but this is not how you make customers happy. I am more than willing to pay the repair cost if warranty cannot be honored. All I want to do is listen to music, is that too much to ask?

EDIT: By some magic I have received an email replay after using CAPS and assertive text. Maybe I should have been a little more patient... yippee!


----------



## captkirk

LustLoveLuck said:


> Hey abirdie4me. I'm having static issues with my bifrost of over 4 years. Static is present with usb/optical/coaxial input. Only the power cable and RCA is connected and the static is there. I have tried contacting schiit for a month now. They will not respond to me and it is making me extremely mad. I have spent nearly $1000 on this companies products and the customer service is actually dog ****. Excuse my language but this is not how you make customers happy. I am more than willing to pay the repair cost if warranty cannot be honored. All I want to do is listen to music, is that too much to ask?





FLTWS said:


> Instead of using the form on the website generate your own E-Mail to tech@Schiit.com with pertinent info on your units and the problem.



+1 for tech@schiit.com.  I've always had quick responses.


----------



## MWSVette

LustLoveLuck said:


> Hey abirdie4me. I'm having static issues with my bifrost of over 4 years. Static is present with usb/optical/coaxial input. Only the power cable and RCA is connected and the static is there. I have tried contacting schiit for a month now. They will not respond to me and it is making me extremely mad. I have spent nearly $1000 on this companies products and the customer service is actually dog ****. Excuse my language but this is not how you make customers happy. I am more than willing to pay the repair cost if warranty cannot be honored. All I want to do is listen to music, is that too much to ask?
> 
> EDIT: By some magic I have received an email replay after using CAPS and assertive text. Maybe I should have been a little more patient... yippee!



If the issue is the Bifrost and you are the original owner the warranty is five years, so you should be covered.

I have personally found their customer service to be prompt and quite helpful...


----------



## jurumal

I'm a new happy owner of a Schiit Gungnir! I have a question for you Schiit heads. I bought this unit used from a third-party seller. Will Schiit let me do the MB upgrade?


----------



## Charente

jurumal said:


> I'm a new happy owner of a Schiit Gungnir! I have a question for you Schiit heads. I bought this unit used from a third-party seller. Will Schiit let me do the MB upgrade?



I don't see why not ... IMO the only thing that is affected by buying from a 3rd party is the warranty and the upgrade would be outside of that concern.


----------



## artur9

Charente said:


> I don't see why not ... IMO the only thing that is affected by buying from a 3rd party is the warranty and the upgrade would be outside of that concern.



Doesn't the upgrade reset the warranty in some way?  Would that affect a 3rd party buyer?


----------



## jurumal

Right. I read that it extends the warranty to 2 years.


----------



## Charente

artur9 said:


> Doesn't the upgrade reset the warranty in some way?  Would that affect a 3rd party buyer?



@jurumal is correct ... this from the Schiit site ... 
_2-Year Warranty, Made in USA
Gungnir Multibit upgrades are covered by a 2-year warranty, or by the balance of the remaining factory warranty, whichever is greater. For out-of-warranty Gungnirs, this re-activates the warranty on the complete product for 2 years. One caveat: Schiit may refuse to do upgrades on heavily modified products. Schiit-installed upgrades are not eligible for return. Like all Schiit products, the Gungnir Multibit upgrade is made in the USA. _

So, in your case, if you buy from a 3rd party, you would lose the original warranty, if there is any left, but gain 2 years if you upgrade.... ON THE COMPLETE PRODUCT.


----------



## jurumal

Charente said:


> @jurumal is correct ... this from the Schiit site ...
> _2-Year Warranty, Made in USA
> Gungnir Multibit upgrades are covered by a 2-year warranty, or by the balance of the remaining factory warranty, whichever is greater. For out-of-warranty Gungnirs, this re-activates the warranty on the complete product for 2 years. One caveat: Schiit may refuse to do upgrades on heavily modified products. Schiit-installed upgrades are not eligible for return. Like all Schiit products, the Gungnir Multibit upgrade is made in the USA. _
> 
> So, in your case, if you buy from a 3rd party, you would lose the original warranty, if there is any left, but gain 2 years if you upgrade.... ON THE COMPLETE PRODUCT.


Sexy.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Aug 6, 2017)

I am currently using the Mjolnir 2. When I plug in my IEM SE846 on the single ended output (LOW gain). I can hear a buzz noise in the background (Low gain), but when I switch to High Gain, there is no more buzz noise noticeable. You would normally expect it to be quieter in the background with low gain, but it is the opposite in my case. I wonder why? Electrical power issue? or Variation unit by unit?


----------



## Music Alchemist (Aug 9, 2017)

Hmm. That scratching sound the SYS makes is a lot less noticeable with my passive speaker system (Klipsch RP-250F + Behringer KM750) than with the active one (JBL LSR305).


----------



## Valve36

My Valhalla2 arrived here today. I'm happier than a pig in Schiit. Unbelievable sound for $349.00. I've already rolled in some Reflektor NOS tubes that came out of my preamp Let the tube rolling begin.  But honestly, its all about the music isn't it.


----------



## Gavin C4

Valve36 said:


> My Valhalla2 arrived here today. I'm happier than a pig in Schiit. Unbelievable sound for $349.00. I've already rolled in some Reflektor NOS tubes that came out of my preamp Let the tube rolling begin.  But honestly, its all about the music isn't it.



Enjoy your music. What dac are you pairing with your valhalla 2? Stacking a Schiit dac would loook nice


----------



## Valve36

Thanks. I don't have a dac yet. Right now I'm using a CD player. I mainly got it to use with my tube preamp which doesn't have a headphone output jack.


----------



## Gavin C4

Anyone using their Schiit stacks with IEMs at home? Lets say bitfrost multibit/asgard 2 or modi/magi 2. Is the combo better sounding than DAPs at a similar price range?


----------



## ntbm3

Gavin C4 said:


> Anyone using their Schiit stacks with IEMs at home? Lets say bitfrost multibit/asgard 2 or modi/magi 2. Is the combo better sounding than DAPs at a similar price range?



I am using some JH16 ProV2 on my Bimby USB5/Asgard (original) and it honestly sound amazing. I prefer it over my HA-2(not by a lot) over all I have noticed more impactful bass, and a little bit of a DAC signature difference. The bimby being more smooth and improved separation.

One thing I do have trouble with is my original asgard does not have a high/low gain so I am living in the bottom of the volume pot and have problems with left/right channel levels when listen at lower volumes.

I think I am going to upgrade to a Jot or asgard II with the adjustable gain. Is the Jotemheim a big improvement over the Asgard II??


----------



## vibin247

Really enjoying the Valhalla 2 right now. Definitely getting the Bifrost DAC in the future. I never had a tube amp, but I most definitely love the power it cranks into my 'phones.


----------



## Bikerider1001

vibin247 said:


> Really enjoying the Valhalla 2 right now. Definitely getting the Bifrost DAC in the future. I never had a tube amp, but I most definitely love the power it cranks into my 'phones.



What headphones are you using?

I have LCD-XC's and the Schiit site says "You may even like it with high-efficiency planars like LCD-X, LCD-XC, Oppo PM-1 and HE-400." But, Nick at Schiit told me, "The Valhalla 2 is a otl tube which is great for high impedance headphones but suffers in low impedance loads".

I am running the XC's through a Vali 2 and love it but I am looking for even more "tube" sound and power.

Any advice/experience would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Paladin79

I run the Valhalla 2 preamp out into a Bottlehead Crack OTL for more power and the tube sound. (which I prefer) The crack is only made for high impedance headphones. I have some modified Beyerdynamic drivers at 150 ohms that do quite well with either amp.


----------



## vibin247

Bikerider1001 said:


> What headphones are you using?
> 
> I have LCD-XC's and the Schiit site says "You may even like it with high-efficiency planars like LCD-X, LCD-XC, Oppo PM-1 and HE-400." But, Nick at Schiit told me, "The Valhalla 2 is a otl tube which is great for high impedance headphones but suffers in low impedance loads".
> 
> ...



I honestly have no experience in using planar magnetic 'phones, but I'm sure the other Head-Fi'ers that own planars can give you advice. I specifically bought the Valhalla 2 for my Sennheiser HD-650 and other high impedance, dynamic 'phones, including the Beyerdynamic DT-990 250 ohm model I just recently purchased (for less than $170 new on Amazon, no less!) Plus, I never had a tube amp and always read great things about them. The gain switch on the back of the Valhalla 2, using tubes with lower signal gain (like the JJ E88CC), lowering preamp gain and using volume analysis on each audio track on jRiver Media Player helped me corral peaking when I sometimes use my ATH-MSR7s at home, which are a low impedance 'phone at 35 ohms. Perhaps the Lyr 2 or Mjolnir 2 would be your choice if you wanted to avoid impedance mismatching as much as possible, as they're both a hybrid design like your Vali 2 and can handle both low and high-impedance 'phones.


----------



## notfitforpublic

Bikerider1001 said:


> What headphones are you using?
> 
> I have LCD-XC's and the Schiit site says "You may even like it with high-efficiency planars like LCD-X, LCD-XC, Oppo PM-1 and HE-400." But, Nick at Schiit told me, "The Valhalla 2 is a otl tube which is great for high impedance headphones but suffers in low impedance loads".
> 
> ...



Valhalla is not the best option for PM cans. The 400i I briefly had and the EL-8 I currently own don't do so well with it. A hybrid amp like the Lyr2 is a much better option.


----------



## Defiant00

ntbm3 said:


> I am using some JH16 ProV2 on my Bimby USB5/Asgard (original) and it honestly sound amazing. I prefer it over my HA-2(not by a lot) over all I have noticed more impactful bass, and a little bit of a DAC signature difference. The bimby being more smooth and improved separation.
> 
> One thing I do have trouble with is my original asgard does not have a high/low gain so I am living in the bottom of the volume pot and have problems with left/right channel levels when listen at lower volumes.
> 
> I think I am going to upgrade to a Jot or asgard II with the adjustable gain. Is the Jotemheim a big improvement over the Asgard II??



Personally I found the Jot just barely better/different than the Asgard 2 when using SE on both. Main thing I would mention for your overall query is that, at least with my Asgard 2 and the Jot that I tried, I was able to go much quieter without channel imbalance on the Asgard 2. If I had kept the Jot I probably would have had to pick up some attenuators to put between the DAC and amp to get a more usable volume range, even on low gain. As always, YMMV, I listen quietly, etc., but that was my experience.


----------



## vibin247

Thoroughly enjoying my new Bifrost 4490 I picked yesterday at The Schittr. It's loads better than the Audioengine D3 that I was using. The Straightwire RCA and USB cables that are made for Schiit are really great too.


----------



## wilflare

I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Jotenhiem (with the DAC option)

would it support my speakers (AegoM), Philips Fidelio X1, HD6XX and TF10s well?

my local distro only brings in the Silver unit... was hoping for Black (and a multibit option :/)


----------



## Byronb

wilflare said:


> I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Jotenhiem (with the DAC option)
> 
> would it support my speakers (AegoM), Philips Fidelio X1, HD6XX and TF10s well?
> 
> my local distro only brings in the Silver unit... was hoping for Black (and a multibit option :/)



Yes it will.


----------



## captkirk

wilflare said:


> I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Jotenhiem (with the DAC option)
> 
> would it support my speakers (AegoM), Philips Fidelio X1, HD6XX and TF10s well?
> 
> my local distro only brings in the Silver unit... was hoping for Black (and a multibit option :/)



I have the Jotunheim (No DAC) and the pairing with my HD6XX is impressive. Clear, precise and tonally neutral. Make sure you run balanced, not for the benefit of the amp but for the cans.  The HD6XX loves the power. 

I very much doubt a MB version will ever be available.  Mike from Schiit has mentioned over in his blog that there's no physical way to make a MB version work in the Jot chassis. The Dac board wouldn't fit.   Pick up a ModiMB (a super-solid Dac for the $$$).

Just my 2 cents...


----------



## Dana Reed

Using my new setup Mac Mini->USB 5 Bimby->Vali 2->Grado GS2000e and really enjoying it.
Also have the same DAC connected to Saga->Vidar->KLH 900B, which also sounds great.  Just looking for "one more" upgrade on the speaker side...

(Moved my mimby to the side of the bed, fed by an airport express and feeding either a magni 2 uber or oppo HA-2 line input depending on the headphones)


----------



## Zomgnoob

Hey guys! I was wondering if i could get a little bit of advice pertaining to schiit amps and dacs.
Im wondering whether which combination of dac/amp the better upgrade pertaining to the devices im using. Currently im using a UE CIEM and HD800S with mojos (Completely desktop dac/ampless otherwise)
Given the price points of the various devices, i was considering between
Amps : Ragna / Mjol2
Dacs : Yggy / Gumby.

I dont think im in the position to get the best of the two worlds i.e yggy and ragna (unless the difference is that great). So i was wondering which of the combinations are the best :
Ragna/ Gumby
Yggy / Mjol2
Mjol2 / Gumby

I might incline towards Mjol2/Gumby if the differences between the top tier and 2nd tier amp/dac do not justify their price points.. Hopefully the amp/dac would also be my end gear combinations too 
Thanks!


----------



## Gavin C4

I wonder will there be any specs upgrade to Schiit's dac. For example the latest A&K SP1000 DAP uses AK4497EQ dual-DAC. Whereas the Gungnir Delta sigma uses AKM AK4399 x 2 .


----------



## Gavin C4

Zomgnoob said:


> Hey guys! I was wondering if i could get a little bit of advice pertaining to schiit amps and dacs.
> Im wondering whether which combination of dac/amp the better upgrade pertaining to the devices im using. Currently im using a UE CIEM and HD800S with mojos (Completely desktop dac/ampless otherwise)
> Given the price points of the various devices, i was considering between
> Amps : Ragna / Mjol2
> ...



I am also interested in the choice of Schiit top tier devices. I am deciding either getting the Yaggy or Ragg for upgrade. I can only get one. I currently own the Mjol2 / Gumby stack


----------



## Charente (Sep 7, 2017)

I have Gumby/MJ2 combination ... the MJ2 because it's a tube hybrid and I appreciate having the option of 'fine-tuning' the sound with different tubes ... altho I'm not a big roller !! No ownership experience with Ragnarok or Ygdrassil, although I have heard the Yggy ... personally, I preferred the slightly warmer (but still detailed) presentation of the Gumby.... altho Yggy is impressive. It wasn't worth an extra $1k to me personally. To a large extent, it depends what sound signature you prefer IMO.


----------



## Darren G

The MJ2 with LISST (the solid-state cans) is not my cup of tea, but with tubes I'm thoroughly satisfied.  I've definitely been converted to the 'tube sound' camp.  To my ears, the difference between the MJ2 with tubes, and my previous experiences with all solid-state amps is so significant, I just can't fathom an all solid-state choice, but that's just me.  Others have spoken highly of Raggy.

Yggy is incredible, and I haven't heard Gumby, but those whose opinions I trust report it's very close to Yggy, a bit warmer sound; for $1000 difference, especially when you are not A/Bing, that's a lot that could go toward a headphone upgrade.


----------



## Zomgnoob

Charente said:


> I have Gumby/MJ2 combination ... the MJ2 because it's a tube hybrid and I appreciate having the option of 'fine-tuning' the sound with different tubes ... altho I'm not a big roller !! No ownership experience with Ragnarok or Ygdrassil, although I have heard the Yggy ... personally, I preferred the slightly warmer (but still detailed) presentation of the Gumby.... altho Yggy is impressive. It wasn't worth an extra $1k to me personally. To a large extent, it depends what sound signature you prefer IMO.





Darren G said:


> The MJ2 with LISST (the solid-state cans) is not my cup of tea, but with tubes I'm thoroughly satisfied.  I've definitely been converted to the 'tube sound' camp.  To my ears, the difference between the MJ2 with tubes, and my previous experiences with all solid-state amps is so significant, I just can't fathom an all solid-state choice, but that's just me.  Others have spoken highly of Raggy.
> 
> Yggy is incredible, and I haven't heard Gumby, but those whose opinions I trust report it's very close to Yggy, a bit warmer sound; for $1000 difference, especially when you are not A/Bing, that's a lot that could go toward a headphone upgrade.



Ohh, thanks loads for your input guys! Yeah i think i will hold back from getting the yggy then, i'll def get the gumby as my dac.
That leaves the question of ragna vs mjol2! 
I was wondering if the mjol2 is a good end amp to get? Im not sure if the phrase 'jacks of all trades' is applicable here but with it being hybrid, is its attractiveness because of its hybrid ability or being able to be really good at either solid state / tubes? If its the former, i might actually get the ragna for now and save up for a dedicated tube amp in the future!
Thanks


----------



## Charente (Sep 7, 2017)

Zomgnoob said:


> ... but with it being hybrid, is its attractiveness because of its hybrid ability or being able to be really good at either solid state / tubes? If its the former, i might actually get the ragna for now and save up for a dedicated tube amp in the future!
> Thanks



I am presuming you want to drive speakers ? ...

I would say MJ2 excels at being one of the best headphone amps out there (if not THE best ?) and, yes, its hybrid qualities (with tubes) is remarkable in my setup. It will also serve duty as a pre-amp but perhaps the Ragnarok (Integrated pre & power) would probably be the way to go for speakers. I've heard it's a good headphone amp as well, altho not sure how it compares to MJ2 in this area. There are other routes in the Schiit lineup of course ... Saga (or even Freya) + Vidar is very tempting to me.


----------



## Zomgnoob

Charente said:


> I am presuming you want to drive speakers ? ...
> 
> I would say MJ2 excels at being one of the best headphone amps out there (if not THE best ?) and, yes, its hybrid qualities (with tubes) is remarkable in my setup. It will also serve duty as a pre-amp but perhaps the Ragnarok (Integrated pre & power) would probably be the way to go for speakers. I've heard it's a good headphone amp as well, altho not sure how it compares to MJ2 in this area. There are other routes in the Schiit lineup of course ... Saga (or even Freya) + Vidar is very tempting to me.



I have only a mere Audioengine A5+ speakers that im powering through a $150 dac/amp. I wish to focus more on the ability of the device to power headphones, having the speakers connectivity is just a mere plus!

Thanks for your insights in the mjol2s though, the only reason why im hesitant to get it is that i might invest in a pure tube amp in the future (looking at you woo audio!) and im not sure if i'll be using the tube component of the mjol2 after that. Im really not sure how the capabilities of the mjol2 compare to the ragnarok in terms of headphones capabilities. Of course, i think i should heavily consider the mjol2 and gumby as my end gear.. Its definitely cheaper and sounds wiser on my part..  
I wish i could demo these units that i have interest in, but there arent any shops with schiit products to demo unless i take a 4 hour flight away haha! Relying on online reviews sure is a messy process!


----------



## vibin247

Zomgnoob said:


> Hey guys! I was wondering if i could get a little bit of advice pertaining to schiit amps and dacs.
> Im wondering whether which combination of dac/amp the better upgrade pertaining to the devices im using. Currently im using a UE CIEM and HD800S with mojos (Completely desktop dac/ampless otherwise)
> Given the price points of the various devices, i was considering between
> Amps : Ragna / Mjol2
> ...



If you get a chance to visit Southern California, you should definitely visit The Schiitr in Santa Clarita. I was able to demo my latest purchase there, a Bifrost 4490, as well as other setups, including a Mjolnir and Gugnir Multibit, both of which are awesome and it's definitely my future setup. I think they also have the Ragnarok - Yggdrasil setup in their speaker room, but double check with their staff.


----------



## Darren G

The Mjol2 with LISST did nothing for me.  I guess it sounded like a reasonably pleasant SS amp, but the Mjol2 comes alive with tubes.  As a pure SS amp, I couldn't live with it personally.  Even if it is accurate, to me it sounds flat, repetitive, lacking warmth, the sense of holographic sound stage disappears, the tone of all instruments blah, that annoying digital buzz/glare bugs me, and yea, just not for me.

With tubes though, the Mjol2 comes alive, tons of slam; echos, reverbs, the tone of the instruments doesn't sound one note, and I could go on and on, but it's very enjoyable.  

Haven't heard the Raggy, but I expect to keep the Mjol2 a long time.  I have 3 sets of tubes and they all have unique characteristics.  The 'option' to swap, even if used rarely is a big plus for me.  Oh and also with low noise 6922's, the amp is dead quiet.  No hiss, hum, or buzz.  The LISST on the other hand are a little bit noisy, not terribly so, and Schiit warns of this fact, but with efficient headphones I can hear it and bugs me because I know how quiet the amp can be.


----------



## Charente

Zomgnoob said:


> I have only a mere Audioengine A5+ speakers that im powering through a $150 dac/amp. I wish to focus more on the ability of the device to power headphones, having the speakers connectivity is just a mere plus!
> 
> Thanks for your insights in the mjol2s though, the only reason why im hesitant to get it is that i might invest in a pure tube amp in the future (looking at you woo audio!) and im not sure if i'll be using the tube component of the mjol2 after that. Im really not sure how the capabilities of the mjol2 compare to the ragnarok in terms of headphones capabilities. Of course, i think i should heavily consider the mjol2 and gumby as my end gear.. Its definitely cheaper and sounds wiser on my part..
> I wish i could demo these units that i have interest in, but there arent any shops with schiit products to demo unless i take a 4 hour flight away haha! Relying on online reviews sure is a messy process!



Oh, OK ... so majoring on headphones ... If it was me, I'd just focus on what is best for you now ... your future plans for a Woo Headphone Amp are for another day and, unless I'm missing something in your dilemma, unconnected to your current requirement. Maybe someone else can chip in about the Ragnarok as a headphone amp .... The MJ2/GMB pairing from my own experience, and as others above have mentioned, is a wonderful and a significant step up from what you might have currently. Before I got the MJ2 I had never had a tube amp of any sort ... it took a bit of convincing in my head, and now there is no going back. For the money, it's great value ... well above its price point. And... you don't have to spend a lot on tubes ... I have recently tried some reasonably inexpensive GE 5670W tubes (via a converter) and they sound superb ... airiness and detail is abundant. 

The 'Schiitr' is a lot further for me !! ... and yes, it is a bit of a trial buying something 'at arms length'. We're all here to help if we can.


----------



## Charente

Just as a further thought ... before I got the MJ2 I actually bought the LYR2 first ... and actually, that is also an impressive headphone amp as well ... with the right tubes. I've actually kept that and I still use it in a secondary setup in my office in the daytime. However, in hindsight I should have gone straight to the MJ2, albeit it is almost twice the price ... but no regrets ... all part of the learning curve !


----------



## Niggi183

Going from Vali 2 to Valhalla 2 worth it? Since I decided to keep my HD 650s as main drivers for quite some time now, is going to OTL make much of a difference?


----------



## vibin247

Niggi183 said:


> Going from Vali 2 to Valhalla 2 worth it? Since I decided to keep my HD 650s as main drivers for quite some time now, is going to OTL make much of a difference?



How about the Lyr 2? If you want the most versatility with different headphones, that's what I would want to buy. I bought the Valhalla 2 for my HD-650s and other high impedance headphones, but they do need quite a bit of adjustment for lower impedance headphones. Otherwise, tube rolling with Valhalla 2 with high impedance headphones is a very satisfying experience.


----------



## FLTWS

I own both the MJ2 and Ragnarok (as well as the Jotunheim) for 16, 13, and 12 months respectively, and so no axe to grind with respect to favoring any one of them over the others. I've been listening between the 3 over the past year (all balanced in / balanced out, and with my Utopias since March 2017 and the HD800 since July 2016). At this point I wouldn't be without either the MJ2 or Ragnarok, they both sound that good to my ears. I've been rolling 12 different matched pairs of tubes from the stock on up to Amperex 7308 vintage Gold Pins and Telefunken E88CC's in my MJ2. The tube pair I keep coming back to time and again are the NOS 5670's I picked up at music direct for $99.00 the pair. (I keep forgetting to order a backup pair). They really make my MJ2 come alive for me especially with vocals. And in comparing the MJ2 with 5670's to my Ragnarok I am very impressed with the air, dynamics, attack and decay characteristics, and the hard hitting bass the MJ2 displays and how very close it is sonically to the Ragnarok. The Ragnarok sounds a little laid back in the mids where the MJ2 sounds a little forward. Bass and highs are as good as the recording allows either amp to reproduce.

The MJ2 is not tube-y sounding to my ears, I usually associate that traditional tube sound with amps that use output transformers.

I listen mostly to large scale orchestral music and my ears tell me the slightly relaxed mid-range presentation with the Ragnarok suits the aggressively over-miked recordings that started being produced in the early 70's. But the MJ2 is very seductive with vocals and a good all around-er with a variety of genres including large orchestral, jazz, rock, and film soundtracks. 

I'm just glad I don't have to choose between the two. Sometimes I actually have to look and see which one of the two I've got the phones plugged into, (especially with the 5670's), they are both just that enjoyable. 

So my suggestion would be, if you already have an MJ2, find the tubes that do it for you and focus on the best DAC you can afford. I've never heard / owned any Schiit DAC but the Yggdrasil (which I preferred over 5 other DACs I own or got some time in-home with) so I can't comment on the Gungnir Multibit  or any others down the line. But multibit is the Schiit as far as I'm concerned. 

The MJ2 with the right tubes (for you) is a great performer and a very good value. And no, I will not be deserting my Ragnarok (until the Ragnarok comes). I need both!


----------



## captkirk

FLTWS said:


> I own both the MJ2 and Ragnarok (as well as the Jotunheim) for 16, 13, and 12 months respectively, and so no axe to grind with respect to favoring any one of them over the others. I've been listening between the 3 over the past year (all balanced in / balanced out, and with my Utopias since March 2017 and the HD800 since July 2016). At this point I wouldn't be without either the MJ2 or Ragnarok, they both sound that good to my ears. I've been rolling 12 different matched pairs of tubes from the stock on up to Amperex 7308 vintage Gold Pins and Telefunken E88CC's in my MJ2. The tube pair I keep coming back to time and again are the NOS 5670's I picked up at music direct for $99.00 the pair. (I keep forgetting to order a backup pair). They really make my MJ2 come alive for me especially with vocals. And in comparing the MJ2 with 5670's to my Ragnarok I am very impressed with the air, dynamics, attack and decay characteristics, and the hard hitting bass the MJ2 displays and how very close it is sonically to the Ragnarok. The Ragnarok sounds a little laid back in the mids where the MJ2 sounds a little forward. Bass and highs are as good as the recording allows either amp to reproduce.
> 
> The MJ2 is not tube-y sounding to my ears, I usually associate that traditional tube sound with amps that use output transformers.
> 
> ...



I apprecIte the comparisons you mention here, specifically the similarities between the Rag and MJ2. 

I've been looking at the Ragnarok more often as of late. I like its power, ability to drive speakers and lack of tubes. Nothing against tubes, just not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole...

How would you compare the Rag and Jot?  I like the Jot, but I wish it was a bit more open and a touch laid back. I've heard good things about using a Saga as a pre, but the differences are said to be subtle.


----------



## Gavin C4

Zomgnoob said:


> I have only a mere Audioengine A5+ speakers that im powering through a $150 dac/amp. I wish to focus more on the ability of the device to power headphones, having the speakers connectivity is just a mere plus!
> 
> Thanks for your insights in the mjol2s though, the only reason why im hesitant to get it is that i might invest in a pure tube amp in the future (looking at you woo audio!) and im not sure if i'll be using the tube component of the mjol2 after that. Im really not sure how the capabilities of the mjol2 compare to the ragnarok in terms of headphones capabilities. Of course, i think i should heavily consider the mjol2 and gumby as my end gear.. Its definitely cheaper and sounds wiser on my part..
> I wish i could demo these units that i have interest in, but there arent any shops with schiit products to demo unless i take a 4 hour flight away haha! Relying on online reviews sure is a messy process!



I also have the Audio engine A5+. I just connect them with RCA directly to my Gungnir multibit. Cuz the A5+ already have volume control, I dont need the preamp function of the Mjolnir 2. Unless you want a tube preamp


----------



## Charente

FLTWS said:


> ... The MJ2 with the right tubes (for you) is a great performer and a very good value. And no, I will not be deserting my Ragnarok (until the Ragnarok comes). I need both!



Great comparison ... and completely agree with your MJ2 + 5670 tubes assessment ... I've been trying GE 5670W 5 STAR and highly recommend them in the MJ2 (I paid €44 the pair from a German dealer) ... that's about as much as I've paid for any pair, not that I've bought that many.


----------



## FLTWS (Sep 8, 2017)

captkirk said:


> I apprecIte the comparisons you mention here, specifically the similarities between the Rag and MJ2.
> 
> I've been looking at the Ragnarok more often as of late. I like its power, ability to drive speakers and lack of tubes. Nothing against tubes, just not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole...
> 
> How would you compare the Rag and Jot?  I like the Jot, but I wish it was a bit more open and a touch laid back. I've heard good things about using a Saga as a pre, but the differences are said to be subtle.



You've answered your own question. In comparison with both the MJ2 and Ragnarok I find the Jotunheim; brighter and more forward sounding, the sound stage is up close, it doesn't display depth within the sound stage as well as either of the other two (but all HP's I've auditioned suk at this compared to speakers), and I never get the same sense of air between instruments or of the halls or recording locations character or space. The differences between the MJ2 and Ragnarok are much smaller. It's not just a case of diminishing returns because that is always a gorilla in the room, I just enjoy my music more with the other two. But, $399 for this level of performance is a steal and this is what I would recommend to any acquaintance of mine if they wanted a separate HP amp because these people are not audiophiles and are not going to put in the many hours necessary to make themselves crazy obsessing over mole hills to metamorphose into "audiophile" status. Always live within the budget you've got and balance out the performance over the entire system and understand where your weakest link(s) will be (the front and back of the complete chain the way I hear things).

If you've got to drive speakers as well the decision becomes more difficult if you go all the way with Schiit.  Absolute power delivery aside; Ragnarok is $1699 versus an MJ2 plus Vidar which is $1548 (if you like Vidar's sound and can integrate 2 boxes into your system layout and are willing to buy at least 1 pair of modestly priced upgraded tubes, the stock tubescan become backups, and if you want the preamp to pull double duty as a HP amp). If you want to avoid that "rabbit hole" then it's easy, Ragnarok, if the power is adequate.

I have no experience with any other Schiit gear other than what's in my signature. I find the simplest approach usually best. If differences aren't subtle I suspect a malfunction or mismatch.

The 3 most important aspects that will affect the sound your going to experience are (and in this order):
1. The quality of the recording
2. The quality of the recording
3. The quality of the recording


----------



## Snowpuppy77 (Sep 8, 2017)

FLTWS said:


> You've answered your own question. In comparison with both the MJ2 and Ragnarok I find the Jotunheim; brighter and more forward sounding, the sound stage is up close, it doesn't display depth within the sound stage as well as either of the other two (but all HP's I've auditioned suk at this compared to speakers), and I never get the same sense of air between instruments or of the halls or recording locations character or space. The differences between the MJ2 and Ragnarok are much smaller. It's not just a case of diminishing returns because that is always a gorilla in the room, I just enjoy my music more with the other two. But, $399 for this level of performance is a steal and this is what I would recommend to any acquaintance of mine if they wanted a separate HP amp because these people are not audiophiles and are not going to put in the many hours necessary to make themselves crazy obsessing over mole hills to metamorphose into "audiophile" status. Always live within the budget you've got and balance out the performance over the entire system and understand where your weakest link(s) will be (the front and back of the complete chain the way I hear things).
> 
> If you've got to drive speakers as well the decision becomes more difficult if you go all the way with Schiit.  Absolute power delivery aside; Ragnarok is $1699 versus an MJ2 plus Vidar which is $1548 (if you like Vidar's sound and can integrate 2 boxes into your system layout and are willing to buy at least 1 pair of modestly priced upgraded tubes, the stock can become backups). If you want to avoid that "rabbit hole" then it's easy, Ragnarok, if the power is adequate.
> 
> ...



Excellent post.  I was planning on getting the MJ2/Gumby combo as an upgrade from my Asgard 2/Bimby combo.  I have a pair of HD800S headphones and a pair of Paradigm Studio 100v.2 speakers that have not been used for music for a long time.  Then I got this crazy idea.  Why not put a Ragnarok in place of the Asgard 2 by my listening chair which is convenient for headphones and just run 28' of speaker cable to my speakers that are on the other wall facing me.  So I got the Ragnarok and but did not quite have enough funds to get the Yggy yet. So I bought a turntable that I have been wanting for a while instead (and Schiit Mani).  I also figured if Steve Guttenberg could give the Ragnarok a component of the year award using the Bimby then the match up would be good enough at least for now.  Another main reason for me to get the Ragnarok is that I ultimately want a Yggy which I hope to get in about a year.

Now that the system is in place I can say that even with just the Bimby the Ragnarok makes my HD800S sound sublime.  I do not care what anyone says about HD800S being too bright with solid state or the Ragnarok.  The Ragnarok has a smooth non fatiguing sound and excellent tone to instruments.  It also has better depth to the soundfield which is a key thing I was wanting.  However the biggest surprise was hearing the Ragnarok on speakers.  My dad was not sure if the 60wpc would be enough to properly drive the Paradigm 100s.  We were both surprised to hear that the Ragnarok drives the Paradigm 100s with ease leaving no want for power.  And the Paradigms sound better than ever and I have to be practically pried away from listening to them with the Ragnarok.  I have now switch from almost 100% headphone listening to 60% speaker and 40% headphone listening.  I would listen to my speakers even more if my family could tolerate it.  Also I will also add that my original vinyl pressings that I was able to properly clean sound significantly better to me than their hi res digital counterparts on the Bimby.  This is even more reason to get Yggy for me so my vast digital collection can sound even better.  Playing the right vinyl on a decent rig through the Ragnarok and HD800S balanced is the best sound I have personally heard.


----------



## FLTWS

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Excellent post.  I was planning on getting the MJ2/Gumby combo as an upgrade from my Asgard 2/Bimby combo.  I have a pair of HD800S headphones and a pair of Paradigm Studio 100v.2 speakers that have not been used for music for a long time.  Then I got this crazy idea.  Why not put a Ragnarok in place of the Asgard 2 by my listening chair which is convenient for headphones and just run 28' of speaker cable to my speakers that are on the other wall facing me.  So I got the Ragnarok and could not quite have enough to get the Yggy yet. So I bought a turntable as I have wanted for a while instead (and Schiit Mani).  I figured if Steve Guttenberg could give the Ragnarok a component of the year award using the Bimby then the match up would be good enough at least for now.  Another real reason for me to get the Ragnarok is that I ultimately want a Yggy which I hope to get in about a year.
> 
> Now that the system is in place I can say that even with just the Bimby the Ragnarok makes my HD800S sound sublime.  I do not care what anyone says about HD800S being too bring for solid state or the Ragnarok.  The Ragnarok has a smooth non fatiguing sound and excellent tone to instruments.  I also have better depth to the soundfield which is a key thing I was wanting.  However the biggest surprise was hearing the Ragnarok on speakers.  My dad was not sure if the 60wpc would be enough to properly drive the Paradigm 100s.  We were both surprised to hear that the Ragnarok drives the Paradigm 100s with ease leaving no want for power.  And the Paradigms sound better than ever and I have to be practically pried away from listening to them with the Ragnarok.  I have now switch from almost 100% headphone listening to 60% speaker and 40% headphone listening.  I would listen to my speakers even more if my family could tolerate it.  Also I will also add that my original vinyl pressings that I was able to properly clean sound significantly better to me than their hi res digital counterparts on the Bimby.  This is even more reason to get Yggy for me so my vast digital collection can sound even better.  Playing the right vinyl on a decent rig through the HD800S is the best sound I have personally heard.




Yes,,a Ragnarok (or MJ2) plus HD800 is a great sounding pairing.


----------



## Darren G (Sep 8, 2017)

captkirk said:


> ... Nothing against tubes, just not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole...



I avoided them for a long time too, but it's worth noting that the rabbit hole is not as deep as it seems.  The pre-amp tubes supported by the MJ2 are more common than is obvious, including multiple current manufacturers.  The numbering scheme can be intimidating, but reading a single article will clear that all up.  Personally I don't hear differences between cables, but tubes I do.  While there are some expensive old tubes out there (that some covet), there are plenty of modern choices, often under $100 a pair (i.e., cheaper than many interconnects), that typically will last many years, and (I find) really do make a difference in the sound.

p.s. And really, the MJ2 with tubes does not sound mushy, syrupy, noisy, whatever stereotypical image that some think of when they think of tubes.


----------



## Baldr (Sep 8, 2017)

Darren G said:


> I avoided them for a long time too, but it's worth noting that the rabbit hole is not as deep as it seems.  The pre-amp tubes supported by the MJ2 are more common than is obvious, including multiple current manufacturers.  The numbering scheme can be intimidating, but reading a single article will clear that all up.  Personally I don't hear differences between cables, but tubes I do.  While there are some expensive old tubes out there (that some covet), there are plenty of modern choices, often under $100 a pair (i.e., cheaper than many interconnects), that typically will last many years, and (I find) really do make a difference in the sound.
> 
> p.s. And really, the MJ2 with tubes does not sound mushy, syrupy, noisy, whatever stereotypical image that some think of when they think of tubes.


GE5670s with adapters are stunning bang for the buck in 6DJ8, 6922, or 7308 sockets.


----------



## FLTWS

Baldr said:


> GE5670s with adapters are stunning bang for the buck in 6DJ8, 6922, or 7308 sockets.



LOL! I just ordered that back up pair of 5670's I alluded to in an earlier post from Music Direct.  Come back here and read Baldr's recommendation, looks like for once I beat the inevitable rush that will surely follow now. Seriously though, they do pair very well with MJ2 imparting to it some of the better sonic attributes of the Ragnarok. That's why I wouldn't be happy without the MJ2 and the Ragnarok; double the pleasure, double the fun!


----------



## captkirk

Considering that I have limited space, a fairly small listening room, and more-than-some set of efficient speakers, the Rag may be my ideal solution.  Looking at integrated amps out there, it's nice knowing that Schiit's headphone section in the Rag is top-notch.  

As for tubes, the MJ2 has great appeal.  The pairing with my Gungnir MB would likely sound sublime.  But if I go tubes, I'm leaning more towards high powered OTLs, _so for the moment_, looking elsewhere.


----------



## eee1111

Tomorrow is the day

mj2 and gen 5  Gungnir MultiBit

I got the balanced cables, headphones, tubes, and music ready


----------



## FLTWS

eee1111 said:


> Tomorrow is the day
> 
> mj2 and gen 5  Gungnir MultiBit
> 
> I got the balanced cables, headphones, tubes, and music ready



Ain't foreplay great!?


----------



## UntilThen

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Playing the right vinyl on a decent rig through the Ragnarok and HD800S balanced is the best sound I have personally heard.



I'm glad others are getting the same experience. Yggdrasil and Ragnarok pairing with Audeze LCD-2f or HD800 sounds absolutely stunning. This combination is incredible for details, dynamics and musicality. 

Switching Yggdrasil to my Rega RP8 with Apheta moving coil cartridge and Avid Pellar phono preamp is even more euphonic for me. Ragnarok is an end game amp as far as I'm concerned. It does everything right and sounds great. On a back to back audition with Violectric v281 on 3 lengthy occasions, I chose Ragnarok at the end. I have ZMF Eikon and Atticus incoming and I can't wait to hear them on the Rag.

I spend 90% of my time with Rag now and 10% with my OTL tube amp Euforia.


----------



## Charente (Sep 8, 2017)

FLTWS said:


> LOL! I just ordered that back up pair of 5670's I alluded to in an earlier post from Music Direct.  Come back here and read Baldr's recommendation, looks like for once I beat the inevitable rush that will surely follow now. Seriously though, they do pair very well with MJ2 imparting to it some of the better sonic attributes of the Ragnarok. That's why I wouldn't be happy without the MJ2 and the Ragnarok; double the pleasure, double the fun!



I have also just bought the last of the stock of GE 5670W 5* from my dealer in Europe ... no more available on his radar over here. These are superb. They should last me me a long time. Thanks to @Baldr for first bringing this family of tubes to our attention some months ago.


----------



## Defiant00

captkirk said:


> Considering that I have limited space, a fairly small listening room, and more-than-some set of efficient speakers, the Rag may be my ideal solution.  Looking at integrated amps out there, *it's nice knowing that Schiit's headphone section in the Rag is top-notch.  *
> 
> As for tubes, the MJ2 has great appeal.  The pairing with my Gungnir MB would likely sound sublime.  But if I go tubes, I'm leaning more towards high powered OTLs, _so for the moment_, looking elsewhere.



Don't forget, the Rag doesn't have a "headphone section" or "speaker section," it's all the same thing, just with different connectors.


----------



## captkirk (Sep 8, 2017)

Defiant00 said:


> Don't forget, the Rag doesn't have a "headphone section" or "speaker section," it's all the same thing, just with different connectors.



True enough. I guess what I'm saying is that going with the Rag provides _me_ little to no consequences in performance.


----------



## vibin247

Waiting for a pair of Matsushita/National PC88/7DJ8 tubes from Upscale Audio to come in today and try on my Valhalla 2....


----------



## jmarcusg

Baldr said:


> GE5670s with adapters are stunning bang for the buck in 6DJ8, 6922, or 7308 sockets.



I grabbed 2 matched pairs of Western Electric 396A NOS (80's) for about $75/pair on ebay after your enthusiastic recommendation here [1] using these adapters [2]. I can confirm they "really work" on Nickel Creek and pretty much everything else too on my Lyr 2.

[1] https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...en-robert-hunter.784471/page-37#post_12457606
[2] http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-pl...111735?hash=item2c9e670177:g:~IoAAOSw~OVWwGvh


----------



## Gavin C4 (Sep 12, 2017)

Very impress with the quality of the Mjolnir 2. I plug in my SE846 and Campfire Andromeda to the balanced output of the Mjolnir 2. Yes, I plugin very very sensitive IEM into the 4-Pin XLR tab. And there is absolutely no hiss or ground noise! Total silent background. Now I can enjoy my IEMs with with Gumby / Mjolnir 2 Stack. Schiit's circuits are so good, I can hear hiss on some of my phones when pairing with the SE846 / Andro. But there is none on the Mjolnir 2 XLR output. Damn


----------



## artur9

So I have these Cambridge Audio Minx 10 on my desk with a monster contraption of a Bifrost, Magni 2 (for volume control) and Parasound Zamp to drive them.  

Schiit doesn't make anything like a Magni 2 size speaker amp for desktop use but that's would I'd like, I think.  What would be a good Magni size amp /integrated amp?  Or Bifrost size?


----------



## Snowpuppy77

Zomgnoob said:


> Hey guys! I was wondering if i could get a little bit of advice pertaining to schiit amps and dacs.
> Im wondering whether which combination of dac/amp the better upgrade pertaining to the devices im using. Currently im using a UE CIEM and HD800S with mojos (Completely desktop dac/ampless otherwise)
> Given the price points of the various devices, i was considering between
> Amps : Ragna / Mjol2
> ...



I was in the exact same position as you with respect to driving my HD800S.  Currently own a Bimby and even considered just getting a Valhalla 2 which I know now would have been a great option having just heard it with HD800 at RMAF Canjam 2017.  For your HD800S the Bimby and Valhalla 2 is a great combination for sure.  Maybe not as much with your IEM but do not know.  I also could not afford both the Raggy and the Yggy at the same time.  After much though I went with the Ragnarok for my HD800S.  I noticed that Steve Guttenberg gave the Ragnarok the Audiophiliac component of the year award while using the Bimby with it.  And Bimby does sound great with Rggy.  That is a good thing because it will be about a year before I can purchase the Yggy.  So one option is to get the Ragnarok now and then get a Yggy later.  As far as the MJ2/Gumby I saw and heard them at RMAF17 and they also sounded great.  The MJ2/Gumby is the most beautiful to look at of all the Schiit stacks IMHO.  If you are focused on headphones only that may be the best thing for you to get.  With the money you save from not getting the Yggy you could get a decent turntable like a Rega RP3 or a Pro-Ject The Classic.  With the MJ2 the Gumby would go in balanced and the turntable would go in RCA and you can switch between the two on the front of the MJ2.  I almost did this very thing.  However I went with the Ragnarok because I wanted to also use it with an old pair of Paradigm Studio 100v.2 speakers I have.  The Ragnarok is an improvement over the NAD electronics that were driving my speakers.  

So in summary for the HD800S and your budget I would get the MJ2/Gumby and a turntable if you only want it for headphones.  But if you think you may want to play through speakers eventually then you can do what I did and get a Ragnarok and Turntable now and a Yggy later.  Your Mojo may sound pretty good through the Ragnarok until you can get the Yggy.


----------



## Zomgnoob

Snowpuppy77 said:


> I was in the exact same position as you with respect to driving my HD800S.  Currently own a Bimby and even considered just getting a Valhalla 2 which I know now would have been a great option having just heard it with HD800 at RMAF Canjam 2017.  For your HD800S the Bimby and Valhalla 2 is a great combination for sure.  Maybe not as much with your IEM but do not know.  I also could not afford both the Raggy and the Yggy at the same time.  After much though I went with the Ragnarok for my HD800S.  I noticed that Steve Guttenberg gave the Ragnarok the Audiophiliac component of the year award while using the Bimby with it.  And Bimby does sound great with Rggy.  That is a good thing because it will be about a year before I can purchase the Yggy.  So one option is to get the Ragnarok now and then get a Yggy later.  As far as the MJ2/Gumby I saw and heard them at RMAF17 and they also sounded great.  The MJ2/Gumby is the most beautiful to look at of all the Schiit stacks IMHO.  If you are focused on headphones only that may be the best thing for you to get.  With the money you save from not getting the Yggy you could get a decent turntable like a Rega RP3 or a Pro-Ject The Classic.  With the MJ2 the Gumby would go in balanced and the turntable would go in RCA and you can switch between the two on the front of the MJ2.  I almost did this very thing.  However I went with the Ragnarok because I wanted to also use it with an old pair of Paradigm Studio 100v.2 speakers I have.  The Ragnarok is an improvement over the NAD electronics that were driving my speakers.
> 
> So in summary for the HD800S and your budget I would get the MJ2/Gumby and a turntable if you only want it for headphones.  But if you think you may want to play through speakers eventually then you can do what I did and get a Ragnarok and Turntable now and a Yggy later.  Your Mojo may sound pretty good through the Ragnarok until you can get the Yggy.


Hey dude! Thanks loads for your insights, i definitely gave the options quite a bit of thought and definitely am heading towards your way of getting a yggy later. Since i posted that conundrum, i managed to snag a second hand ragnarok off a user at about a third off its original price. 
Im currently awaiting til the end of the year where i can finally travel to somewhere with schiit demo stacks! Looking forward to trying out the yggy and gumby and assess which to get. That being said, i've gotten the ragnarok despite not being a big fan of speakers (i dont have the space for a great speaker setup haha), and would probably chase the tube amp life somewhere in the far future! 
Moving from mojo with hd800s to mojo+raggy was a great difference though, at first i didnt entirely enjoy the hd800s with the mojos but with the new addition, im listening to it a lot more than usual. Def a quality purchase to me!


----------



## Gavin C4

Schiit recently released their USB gen 5 for all Schiit dacs and even a usb gen 5 device that convert usb signal to optical. It initiated my interest in using the optical input of my Gungnir Multibit. Most PC motherboard today offers an optical output for audio, I simply grab a Toslink optical cable and its ready to go. I tested between usb input vs optical on the Gungnir. I would say there is a noticeable improvement, it is not to a point where you can literally say the usb input is trash, but at least to my ears there are audible improvements such as improving transparency. It is a relatively small cost to grab a Toslink optical cable from places such as mono price etc if your motherboard already offer optical output. It is definitely worth trying it.


----------



## Gavin C4

MattTCG said:


> I'm not an owner but looking to buy the Asgard. It seems to be very nice. I had the lyr for a short while and it ran very hot. Is that normal with this line?


Are you using stock tubes with lyr? I recently bought a new pair of electro-harmonix 6922 for my Mjolnir 2, the amp ran noticeable cooler than sock tubes. Both Asgard and Lyr 2 will be warm when they are running, Schiit says it is totally safe.


----------



## Letmebefrank

Gavin C4 said:


> Schiit recently released their USB gen 5 for all Schiit dacs and even a usb gen 5 device that convert usb signal to optical. It initiated my interest in using the optical input of my Gungnir Multibit. Most PC motherboard today offers an optical output for audio, I simply grab a Toslink optical cable and its ready to go. I tested between usb input vs optical on the Gungnir. I would say there is a noticeable improvement, it is not to a point where you can literally say the usb input is trash, but at least to my ears there are audible improvements such as improving transparency. It is a relatively small cost to grab a Toslink optical cable from places such as mono price etc if your motherboard already offer optical output. It is definitely worth trying it.



Just to clarify the Eitr converts USB to Digital Coax S/PDIF, which is technically superior to optical S/PDIF.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Oct 12, 2017)

I wonder if schiit will make an amp with TTRS 2.5mm balanced as the IEM market is definitely growing at a fast pace.

Anyone using sensitive IEMs such as SE846 / Campfire Andromeda  with Schiit stacks? Which stack do you prefer which has the least or no background noise? Currently, my MJ2 stack single end output has audible background noise.


----------



## Astral Abyss

Gavin C4 said:


> I wonder if schiit will make an amp with TTRS 2.5mm balanced as the IEM market is definitely growing at a fast pace.
> 
> Anyone using sensitive IEMs such as SE846 / Campfire Andromeda  with Schiit stacks? Which stack do you prefer which has the least or no background noise? Currently, my MJ2 stack single end output has audible background noise.



You can buy a compact adapter to convert your TRRS into 4pin XLR.  That would be the best solution.  Then you can just move it to whatever amp you want with an XLR connection and plug in your IEMs.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

So far, I own/have owned 4 Schiit products. Fulla 2, Mimby, Vali 2, and Magni 3. One of these days, I'll climb out of the "mid-fi" rabbit hole. Until then, my wallet will be thankful!


----------



## RickB (Oct 13, 2017)

.


----------



## MWSVette

RiflemanFirst said:


> So far, I own/have owned 4 Schiit products. Fulla 2, Mimby, Vali 2, and Magni 3. One of these days, I'll climb out of the "mid-fi" rabbit hole. Until then, my wallet will be thankful!




You picked some great starter equipment.

Stay mid-fi as long as you can.  Your wallet will appreciate it...


----------



## Hofy

I am thinking of upgrading from the Schiit Vali2 to one of the following.  Valhalla2, Lyr2, Jotunheim.  The reason being is that all my Sennheiser cans are 150 ohm to 600 ohm and the Vali2 is not quite doing it for the 300 & 600 ohm units.  
The HD545 and HD565 sound awesome at 150 ohm.  The HD580 and HD540II at 300 ohm are ok but I feel they will scale up and sound much better.  The HD540 600 ohm sounds down right flat and lifeless.
I am leaning towards the Valhalla2.  Is ther any compelling reason I should consider the Lyr2 or Jotunheim?
Associated gear,  Modi MB, Mani, Sys.

Thanks


----------



## gmahler2u (Jan 28, 2018)

After 2 days of cooking the tube.
I say "Hooooly KCccccvvvRaPpppppp"
This schiiiiiiit is totally out of this freaking world!!!!"

"Of course, Tele e188cc is out of this world"


Anyway, schiit man I  love it..

WE 396a/2c51....man I m in love..
That's all I need to say..


----------



## ibage

Hofy said:


> I am thinking of upgrading from the Schiit Vali2 to one of the following.  Valhalla2, Lyr2, Jotunheim.  The reason being is that all my Sennheiser cans are 150 ohm to 600 ohm and the Vali2 is not quite doing it for the 300 & 600 ohm units.
> The HD545 and HD565 sound awesome at 150 ohm.  The HD580 and HD540II at 300 ohm are ok but I feel they will scale up and sound much better.  The HD540 600 ohm sounds down right flat and lifeless.
> I am leaning towards the Valhalla2.  Is ther any compelling reason I should consider the Lyr2 or Jotunheim?
> Associated gear,  Modi MB, Mani, Sys.
> ...



The Valhalla 2 is not a tradition tube amp. At least the sound isnt. I use it for the HD600 and 700 primarily.

It has somewhat of a dry sound to me, but that isnt a baf thing! For the HD600, is made it a bit quicker and helped with the veil. It also increased the soundstage a little bit as well. Similarly, the HD700, while already detailed, had its mids brought out a bit more and the trebble was tamed a little. No real difference for the soundstage though.

What the Valhalla 2 does is seperates the instruments and clears out some congestion. I enjoy the HD598 Cs and MS-1 out of it, but the DT990 sounds like crap. I have heard it does not do too well with lower impedance cans, but I dont have much to complain about. Just know going in that it does not tote that traditional tube sound, but it does what it does very well. I upgraded from an original Asgard for what it was worth.

I cant comment on the higher end Schiits, however.


----------



## Gringo91

Magni 3 coming back in stock on the EU site in 2-3 weeks time. Twiddling my thumbs in the meantime. Tempted to buy a used Magni 2 uber but doing my best to hold off.


----------



## ScottFree

Gringo91 said:


> Magni 3 coming back in stock on the EU site in 2-3 weeks time. Twiddling my thumbs in the meantime. Tempted to buy a used Magni 2 uber but doing my best to hold off.



Don't worry Dave Grohl. You'll be able to hear that Magni 3 magic soon.


----------



## Ron Sherwood

Anyone running a Gumby Multibit and Moli 2 tube combination?

Thinking it may be a good fit for my HD800 and I can always upgrade the DAC down the road.

Was also looking at the Senn HDVD800 (DAC/Amp) combo, however I like the Schitt 5 year warranty.


----------



## gmahler2u

hey everyone.

I need some help here, I have schiit fulla (1st gen).  Now, I'm trying connect this sucker into my cell phone.  Where can I get this connector.

Thanks


----------



## Matro5

gmahler2u said:


> hey everyone.
> 
> I need some help here, I have schiit fulla (1st gen).  Now, I'm trying connect this sucker into my cell phone.  Where can I get this connector.
> 
> Thanks



 What cell phone do you have?


----------



## gmahler2u

Samsung S6 cell phone.


----------



## Dana Reed

gmahler2u said:


> Samsung S6 cell phone.


http://www.schiit.com/guides/ios-android-and-linux

You can use the USB OTG adapter mentioned on the schiit site.  I’ve seen some people say they’ve found a single cable with micro usb B on both ends and gotten it to work
I have an iPhone so I use their USB adapter to lightning port


----------



## FredoIsFishing (Feb 14, 2018)

Ron Sherwood said:


> Anyone running a Gumby Multibit and Moli 2 tube combination?
> 
> Thinking it may be a good fit for my HD800 and I can always upgrade the DAC down the road.
> 
> Was also looking at the Senn HDVD800 (DAC/Amp) combo, however I like the Schitt 5 year warranty.



I've been thinking of the Gumby/Mjolnir 2 combo for my HD800S but the Mjolnir 2 hasn't been available for sale since November of last year. It's been backordered. And they've pushed back the estimated delivery dates twice. Currently it's the week of Feb. 22. I'm going to go with something else if it gets pushed back again.

I'm patient but there is a limit.


----------



## Snowpuppy77

FredoIsFishing said:


> I've been thinking of the Gumby/Mjolnir 2 combo for my HD800S but the Mjolnir 2 hasn't been available for sale since November of last year. It's been backordered. And they've pushed back the estimated delivery dates twice. Currently it's the week of Feb. 22. I'm going to go with something else if it gets pushed back again.
> 
> I'm patient but there is a limit.



Yes that is a long time.  Did you ever email Schiit and ask about it?  I own a pair of HD800S and love it with my Ragnarok.  No doubt I would have been very happy with the MJ2/Gumby combo as well.  I do use the Ragnarok for speakers as well.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Yes that is a long time.  Did you ever email Schiit and ask about it?  I own a pair of HD800S and love it with my Ragnarok.  No doubt I would have been very happy with the MJ2/Gumby combo as well.  I do use the Ragnarok for speakers as well.





Snowpuppy77 said:


> Yes that is a long time.  Did you ever email Schiit and ask about it?  I own a pair of HD800S and love it with my Ragnarok.  No doubt I would have been very happy with the MJ2/Gumby combo as well.  I do use the Ragnarok for speakers as well.



No, never emailed Schiit. I recall reading a message somewhere here on Head-Fi that did contact them. The word was they were waiting for parts.


----------



## FredoIsFishing

Snowpuppy77 said:


> Yes that is a long time.  Did you ever email Schiit and ask about it?  I own a pair of HD800S and love it with my Ragnarok.  No doubt I would have been very happy with the MJ2/Gumby combo as well.  I do use the Ragnarok for speakers as well.





Snowpuppy77 said:


> Yes that is a long time.  Did you ever email Schiit and ask about it?  I own a pair of HD800S and love it with my Ragnarok.  No doubt I would have been very happy with the MJ2/Gumby combo as well.  I do use the Ragnarok for speakers as well.



No, never emailed Schiit. I recall reading a message somewhere here on Head-Fi from somebody that did contact them. The word was they were waiting for parts.


----------



## rayhe19 (Feb 18, 2018)

Based off of the bifrost's serial do you guys know which ones after will have the Uber Chip or the AK4490 chip?

Also, if you upgrade to Bifrost Multibit does schiit ship you back your old ak4399 or ak4490 chip?


----------



## davidflas

rayhe19 said:


> Based off of the bifrost's serial do you guys know which ones after will have the Uber Chip or the AK4490 chip?
> 
> Also, if you upgrade to Bifrost Multibit does schiit ship you back your old ak4399 or ak4490 chip?





I don't know about Bifrosts, but when I upgraded my Gungnir to multi-bit, I did not get the old parts shipped back to me.


----------



## Oklahoma

rayhe19 said:


> Based off of the bifrost's serial do you guys know which ones after will have the Uber Chip or the AK4490 chip?
> 
> Also, if you upgrade to Bifrost Multibit does schiit ship you back your old ak4399 or ak4490 chip?



I believe schiit does not supply replaced parts when upgrades are made.


----------



## rayhe19

So if I have a bifrost with an ak4399 bifrost, I should upgrade straight to multibit instead of making a stop at the ak4490 board?


----------



## gmahler2u

Hi. I need help.
It's about fulla.  I got the otg cable and hook up. But no sound from fulla. 
What is the problem?
I'm  using Samsung s6 btw.

Thank you


----------



## Letmebefrank

gmahler2u said:


> Hi. I need help.
> It's about fulla.  I got the otg cable and hook up. But no sound from fulla.
> What is the problem?
> I'm  using Samsung s6 btw.
> ...



With my s5 and my s7e I need to use USB Audio Player Pro to get sound from external DAC/Amps.


----------



## gmahler2u

Letmebefrank said:


> With my s5 and my s7e I need to use USB Audio Player Pro to get sound from external DAC/Amps.



Thank you


----------



## US Blues

rayhe19 said:


> So if I have a bifrost with an ak4399 bifrost, I should upgrade straight to multibit instead of making a stop at the ak4490 board?



Yes. Multibit is where it's at.


----------



## Snowpuppy77

rayhe19 said:


> So if I have a bifrost with an ak4399 bifrost, I should upgrade straight to multibit instead of making a stop at the ak4490 board?



Not to say the 4490 is not better than the 4399.  However to me multibit is worth the upgrade.  Sound is more dimensional and more of analog's strengths.  More natural less glare.


----------



## RickB

I used to own the Bifrost 4490 and I prefer my Modi Multibit to it.


----------



## acguitar84

RickB said:


> I used to own the Bifrost 4490 and I prefer my Modi Multibit to it.


the modi multibit is a great piece of gear, especially for the price of admission. I have Yggdrasil's on both speaker rigs, on the headphone rig is a modi multibit, and it's a great sound. Modi Multibit to Jot to HD650, a great little headphone rig.


----------



## TJ Max (Apr 28, 2018)

I just got a Jotunheim with the Multibit dac installed. I think its sounds great with the Beyerdynamic T1. I especially enjoy the mid  range.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

I’m now kitted out with the following little silver boxes: Modi Multibit, Sys (to patch in an RCA path from my multiband radio), a Loki Mini, and a Magni 3. These are mighty fine electronics. Perhaps I’ll get used to the amount of heat released by these devices - unnerving. They’re also my first experience with VAC wall warts.


----------



## LarryMagoo

In my Office I run a Jot /Bimby combo that sound quite nice....I leave them on 24/7 as they are always ready to go with my Audioengine A5+ speakers or my Headphones using Roon as a source.


----------



## KaiFi

I have a Modi 2 and Magni 3, but thinking of getting a Bifrost 4490 just because of the Gen 5 USB and the modularity. I keep trying all these other DACs and amps, but the Schiit stack has become the standard by which I judge all the others.


----------



## fianbarr (May 6, 2018)

I have a Valhalla 2 that I either hook up to the home stereo (via line out) to play vinyl or Spotify/MPD trough a Peachtree Audio Dac*ITx, or to the laptop via a Modi 2 USB.

I am thinking about upgrading my rega fono mini A2D to a Mani, but it seems to be on backorder so no idea when electromod (schiit "dealer" in the UK) will stock them again.


----------



## Paladin79

I have also used the Valhalla 2 line out but prefer the Lyr 2 for more of a tube sound. I can switch it between multiple solid state amps as well as two speaker systems.


----------



## 1adam12

Does anyone happen to know if the PayPal Credit, 6 month, no interest offer is available when ordering from Schiit? I'd like to pick up a few things soon.


----------



## ScottFree

TheGimp said:


> Does anyone happen to know if the PayPal Credit, 6 month, no interest offer is available when ordering from Schiit? I'd like to pick up a few things soon.



They do offer PayPal as a payment service but I don't know if they have Paypal Credit. It's possible though.


----------



## fianbarr

Paladin79 said:


> I have also used the Valhalla 2 line out but prefer the Lyr 2 for more of a tube sound. I can switch it between multiple solid state amps as well as two speaker systems.



I wasn't very clear, apologies. My home system is a sony AV receiver (str dn 1030) that I have a dac and turntable (and some video sources) run into, and I have the line out of that receiver connected to the input of the Valhalla 2.


----------



## jnak00

fianbarr said:


> I wasn't very clear, apologies. My home system is a sony AV receiver (str dn 1030) that I have a dac and turntable (and some video sources) run into, and I have the line out of that receiver connected to the input of the Valhalla 2.



I have a similar setup, but I used RCA splitters to output my Mani and Mimby to both an STR-DN1050 and to a SYS through to a Magni 2 Uber.  It lets me listen to music over headphones while my wife watches TV, and I figure the less stuff in the signal path, the better. I played around with the Zone 2 outs on the receiver but it would do odd things, like not power off, if I had Zone 2 active.

The downside to my setup is that any other sources that feed into my receiver can't be output to the M2U, but that's not a big deal to me.


----------



## fianbarr

I use the zone 2, and I have all Audio on a switched power strip so I turn all the power off at night. Only issue with the Sony is it doesn't output the digital inputs to the zone 2 output, I expect for copyright/licencing reasons. But that's not an issue for me as I only use the Valhalla 2 for music. For movies and playstation I plug the headphones straight into the Sony receiver (watches the audience twitch).


----------



## Rattle

Oh high ! I'm a new Schiit owner. Grabbed a Valhalla 2 first as my first taste of well... Schiit I guess.
Recently got a Mimby, Saga and Vidar. Multibit is REAL ! Very happy with everything so far, packaging was pro !
Best sound I've ever had after loving music for all my life.


----------



## rgmffn

Rattle said:


> Oh high ! I'm a new Schiit owner. Grabbed a Valhalla 2 first as my first taste of well... Schiit I guess.
> Recently got a Mimby, Saga and Vidar. Multibit is REAL ! Very happy with everything so far, packaging was pro !
> Best sound I've ever had after loving music for all my life.


Congrats man!  I'm fulla Schiit too!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

rgmffn said:


> Congrats man!  I'm fulla Schiit too!


If they were ever to make a larger Fulla, I'd be all over it. Your "pot" is that nice large dial. Mine, while numerous on my Loki, Magni are teeny tiny. Meh, can't have everything. I respect the Schiit business model. It's nice and disruptive!


----------



## JamesCanada

Anyone try HD800 with the Lyr3?


----------



## luckybaer

Upgraded my system.  Got a lot of Schiit I may end up selling.  Only piece of Schiit that has a permanent home is Gumby.  That thing is awesome.


----------



## Deckard916

Modi 2 / Magni 2 as well as Ragnarok owner, anyone A/B the Magni 2 vs the 3?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Deckard916 said:


> Modi 2 / Magni 2 as well as Ragnarok owner, anyone A/B the Magni 2 vs the 3?


Holy crap! Is it fair to compare the Ragnarok with the Magni set up? The ‘rock is just an amp, right? Would I be curious...?... sure! It’d be more meaningful to me if I somehow visited the Schittr to compare it myself. 
Northern Los Angeles... nice to visit for a Torontonian.


----------



## Deckard916

The M/M is my work desktop setup, I was wondering if anyone had A/B'd the Magni 2 to the Magni 3. The rok is for recliner 'phones listening or speakers in the living room.


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 5, 2018)

I just spent this afternoon comparing My Ragnarok to my LYR 3.

The Ragnarok is extremely linear in response from top to bottom and I always notice an extra bit of extension at the very top and the very bottom of the frequency range with control combined with a fairly neutral soundstage and stable imaging presentation. I like balanced ins and outs and maybe someday there will be a balanced LYR (4?) HP amp using 6SN7 types. Or perhaps make that a Ragnatube.

The LYR3  is not all that dissimilar but doesn't have the very top and bottom of the Rag, and as far as I can tell, having spent several weeks with 11 different tubes, a lot of the other possible points of comparison will be dependent on the tube one chooses to use. The LYR 3 does have that whatever quality it is that makes tubes alluring.

It has always been a habit of mine to have both SS and tube gear on hand since the late 80's, and as I'm only headphones now, I the money I don't spend on power amps can go to owning multiple SS and Tube HP amps for the variety and fun of it.

I have no experience with any Schiit HP amps other than what's in my sig.

Almost forgot; at the price of the LYR 3 it's one hellava lot of great sound for the money.


----------



## Deckard916

Love my 'rok, have it paired up with an Oppo (RIP) UDP205 and I think it sounds phenomal for the $$.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

My Massdrop HD6xx just arrived. I plugged them into my ModiMB-Loki-Magni3. Bypassed the Loki, flipped the gain switch to "high", and fired up some early Doobie Brothers. Oh dang!


----------



## fianbarr

Any specific doobie brothers album you'd recommend?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

fianbarr said:


> Any specific doobie brothers album you'd recommend?


I'm a VERY casual listener of the Doobies... strictly the singles that hit Billboard (ex., What A Fool Believes, Takin' It To The Streets, China Grove, Listen To The Music).  It's what I remember playing on my clock radio in elementary school, grades 5-7.


----------



## fianbarr

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I'm a VERY casual listener of the Doobies... strictly the singles that hit Billboard (ex., What A Fool Believes, Takin' It To The Streets, China Grove, Listen To The Music).  It's what I remember playing on my clock radio in elementary school, grades 5-7.


Thanks, I am more of an album listener myself, and sometimes when faced with an artist that has a huge back catalog it can be a bit overwhelming where to start. Often the allmusic recommended album is a good place to start (although they sometimes recommend a "greatest hits" album, booh!).


----------



## kumar402

Got Valhalla2 for HD600. However I hear some harshness in treble which is fatiguing me out.
Any way to overcome it by tube rolling or shall I try EQ.
I use Audirvana for Tidal.


----------



## RickB

kumar402 said:


> Got Valhalla2 for HD600. However I hear some harshness in treble which is fatiguing me out.
> Any way to overcome it by tube rolling or shall I try EQ.
> I use Audirvana for Tidal.



People have gotten good results using a pair of EH 6CG7.


----------



## MrGoat (Jun 17, 2018)

I am in need a new Amp for the vinyl and tape collection listening with the HD650. I have been using a Schiit Asgard 2 (and bimby) for 4-5 years now on my desk rig, but I now need to separate the analog music and the desk set-up. I want to try a OTL tube amp since I hear they work great with the HD650 and the idea of tubes and analog music just makes sense to me.

So I've looked into the Darkvoice and Bottlehead + crack, but I love the look of the Valhalla 2 and I am already sold of Schiit products (I also think the mani is the best phono preamp on the market). From research it sounds like the Valhalla 2 is not very "tubey", but this might mix well with the warm nature of the HD650. Thoughts and/or feedback from people with a similar set-up?


----------



## kumar402

MrGoat said:


> I am in need a new Amp for the vinyl and tape collection listening with the HD650. I have been using a Schiit Asgard 2 (and bimby) for 4-5 years now on my desk rig, but I now need to separate the analog music and the desk set-up. I want to try a OTL tube amp since I hear they work great with the HD650 and the idea of tubes and analog music just makes sense to me.
> 
> So I've looked into the Darkvoice and Bottlehead + crack, but I love the look of the Valhalla 2 and I am already sold of Schiit products (I also think the mani is the best phono preamp on the market). From research it sounds like the Valhalla 2 is not very "tubey", but this might mix well with the warm nature of the HD650. Thoughts and/or feedback from people with a similar set-up?


I think Valhalla2 is better match fo HD650 then 600. On 600 the treble is dry for me but I guess a laid back headphone like 650 might benefit from that.


----------



## UntilThen

MrGoat said:


> I am in need a new Amp for the vinyl and tape collection listening with the HD650. I have been using a Schiit Asgard 2 (and bimby) for 4-5 years now on my desk rig, but I now need to separate the analog music and the desk set-up. I want to try a OTL tube amp since I hear they work great with the HD650 and the idea of tubes and analog music just makes sense to me.
> 
> So I've looked into the Darkvoice and Bottlehead + crack, but I love the look of the Valhalla 2 and I am already sold of Schiit products (I also think the mani is the best phono preamp on the market). From research it sounds like the Valhalla 2 is not very "tubey", but this might mix well with the warm nature of the HD650. Thoughts and/or feedback from people with a similar set-up?



I have heard all 3. The best with hd650 is La Figaro 339, followed by Crack then Valhalla2. YMMV.

I had Darkvoice 336se which is very good with hd650 too, only best by its big brother the La Figaro 339.

Further up the chain, I had the Ragnarok which was very good with hd650 but I have since sold off the Rag.

My main amp now is Glenn's OTL amp which is great with hd800, hd650, lcd2f and lots of headphone.

I have a DNA Stratus on order. I heard this blue amp is great with all those headphones too.


----------



## samkb

Hey y'all, I am also a Shiit lover. Have a Bitfrost and a Asgard 2 paired with HD650s. I'm looking to move up to a Valhalla 2 (curiosity gets the best of me). Anyways, is there anyone in the El Paso area that has a Valhalla I could try? Probably a long shot, but it would be fun to meet other head-fi folks in the area too!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

MrGoat said:


> I am in need a new Amp for the vinyl and tape collection listening with the HD650. I have been using a Schiit Asgard 2 (and bimby) for 4-5 years now on my desk rig, but I now need to separate the analog music and the desk set-up. I want to try a OTL tube amp since I hear they work great with the HD650 and the idea of tubes and analog music just makes sense to me.
> 
> So I've looked into the Darkvoice and Bottlehead + crack, but I love the look of the Valhalla 2 and I am already sold of Schiit products (I also think the mani is the best phono preamp on the market). From research it sounds like the Valhalla 2 is not very "tubey", but this might mix well with the warm nature of the HD650. Thoughts and/or feedback from people with a similar set-up?





samkb said:


> Hey y'all, I am also a Shiit lover. Have a Bitfrost and a Asgard 2 paired with HD650s. I'm looking to move up to a Valhalla 2 (curiosity gets the best of me). Anyways, is there anyone in the El Paso area that has a Valhalla I could try? Probably a long shot, but it would be fun to meet other head-fi folks in the area too!



_I've gathered the HD650 (or in my case, the Massdrop HD6xx clone) loves tubes... And my ModiMB/Magni3 is powering it without issues.  When it's time to get more Schiit gear, I'll go the non-silver-box route (ex., Asgard-Bifrost pairing, or an all-in-one Jotunheim).  I want bigger knobs! In my case, it won't be for several years. Hope you find a Valhalla in El Paso, @samkb _


----------



## kumar402

well i was about to return my Valhalla 2 as i didn't like the synergy with HD600. i guess upper mid and lower treble issue of Valhalla 2.
However i like it with Sony MDR z1R in low gain mode. Sony MDR Z1R is little dark sounding and hence has better synergy. I do hear little bloomy bass but at high volume, however it definitely gives richer midrange and bass. 
Does anyone have similar experience. the output impedance is around 4 at low gain mode and sony Mdr z1r is 64


----------



## tricolor

Hey @samkb , folks!



samkb said:


> Hey y'all, I am also a Shiit lover. Have a Bitfrost and a Asgard 2 paired with HD650s. I'm looking to move up to a Valhalla 2 (curiosity gets the best of me). Anyways, is there anyone in the El Paso area that has a Valhalla I could try? Probably a long shot, but it would be fun to meet other head-fi folks in the area too!



Hope you find another "Schiithead" in your area, hehe. I never really had a chance to compare it to other amps, but when I got it, I was really happy about the aesthetics/design, especially if we use the tube extenders... which I think helps cool off the tubes as well... Soundwise, it suits my needs, so I am a happy puppy in that sense.. it is quite affordable... so that it a gigantic plus!

cheers!


----------



## MrGoat

Thanks for all the advice. I almost won a Valhalla 2 on eBay for a good price but was out bid by $5. 

Instead, I saw a few Vali 2 amps on the Schiit b-stock section for only $99. Figured it was a no brainer to at least get my turntable set up again and playing music. I think ill save up for a true OTL amp later in the year. Based on my research the little Vali 2 is no slouch and should pair well with the HD650. Excited for my first taste of tubes outside of a guitar amp.


----------



## Mike-WI

MrGoat said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I almost won a Valhalla 2 on eBay for a good price but was out bid by $5.
> 
> Instead, I saw a few Vali 2 amps on the Schiit b-stock section for only $99. Figured it was a no brainer to at least get my turntable set up again and playing music. I think ill save up for a true OTL amp later in the year. Based on my research the little Vali 2 is no slouch and should pair well with the HD650. Excited for my first taste of tubes outside of a guitar amp.


I did the same thing. I was thinking of a tube amp just to try.
Valhalla (especially at B-stock prices) looked very interesting. 4 tubes to roll though. Lyr 3 interesting including MB option.
I decided to get a B-stock (can't tell any issues, maybe one tiny hairline scratch) Vali 2 to play with. Sounds very good. Small and not much cost.
I also thought about a Mjolnir 2, but without a real need I could wait for the next "best thing" from Schiit.
May also make it to the Schiitr some day to play with more options before a purchase.

Mike


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Deleted


----------



## Hofy

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _I want bigger knobs! _



So go to eBay and get some more bigger/gooder knobs!


----------



## Deckard916

Lookit dem knawbs! Srsly tho that is a cool looking rack. Homemade?


----------



## Paladin79

https://diyaudiostore.com/collectio...n-milled-aluminum-knobs?variant=6941970235426

I like these but they can be a little pricey, great quality though.


----------



## Mumbles06

I'm thinking about downgrading.  Talk me into or out of it.  I have a MJ2/Gumby stack on my desk. I've had the Vali2/Modi2U stack years ago right when the Vali2 was released and I quickly upgraded to multibit and balanced.  I never thought I would get rid of my stack because it just sounds magic.  But my job made me move.  I had to sell my 4 bed 2 bath house and downgrade to a 2 bed apartment with multiple kids and a dog to move to Southern California.  So now even with loads of my stuff in storage, space is at a premium.  My office is now a corner of my bedroom instead of a stand alone office.  My desk got smaller.  So the Gumby stack takes up a much larger percentage of my desk real estate than it did in my Texas house.  

So I'm thinking of selling the MJ2 and getting a Lyr3 Multibit for the space savings.  Am I crazy?  I think I'll hold the Gumby and build it into a stereo upgrade in a few years.  It's just too good.  Tubes are a big deal for me so I'm leaning Lyr over Joty.  My ZMF's have a custom OCC braided cable terminated in XLR that I'd be losing if I went to the Lyr.  

Does anyone have any experience with the Gumby/MJ stack vs the Lyr3?  Is it a huge downgrade?  I'm honestly more worried about downgrading the DAC than the amp.  

Thoughts?  I need a push in a direction.


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 21, 2018)

_Is this a short term living situation? Is space that much of an issue? if you just relocated you may want to give yourself some time to adjust.

The LYR3 is a seriously good sounding amp if you are not gaga for balanced (which I am, but as you can see in my sig I collect Schiit!). 
But I was listening to my LYR3 yesterday with the "stock" Tungsol versus my MJ2 with some pricey Amperex's, both thru SE outs,and the LYR3 holds it's own quite well. I'd be hard pressed to say which I prefer. 

And I've got better sounding tubes for my LYR3 that, mostly, did not cost me anywhere near as much as the stable of top sounding 6DJ8's I have. How much money have you invested in 6DJ8's?

LYR3 is not a down-grade to my ears.

My Yggy is the only Schiit DAC I have experience with (and I may buy a second Yggy for a bedroom rig), so can't give any impression on any of the other Schiit DACs.

But again, I suggest give yourself some time to adjust if you just moved in and with family and dog in tow, these living arrangements sound like they could be interim to me.

Also note; I'm HP's only, speaker listening with either is not something I'm familiar with._


----------



## Mumbles06

Yeah, I'm only here for 8 months, then move to Seattle area for another 8-9 months, then I'm released from my military commitment and I can go get a civilian job somewhere, but that's probably a pay cut for a year or so.  So basically, despite my ever growing family situation, I'm in a 2 bed apartment for the next 2 years or so, then probably back to a house.  But yes, space is an issue.  SoCal real estate is brutal.  I'm paying more than 1000 dollars more a month for less than half the space.  I'm military and very used to moving, so I'll figure it out.  

Here's my biggest issues.  My desk has an extension that my cans and stack used to sit on, but that's now in storage in Texas.  I was using Audioengine A5+ as my desktop speakers powered by my MJ2.  They put out a lot of sound, and take a lot of space, so I kept them in their box and set up my wife's A2+ on my desk (much smaller).  The big problem is the A5+ can be put in stby with a press of the front button when I'm listening to cans and the wife doesn't want to listen.  The A2+ take up less room on the desk but are always on, meaning I have to go behind them and switch them off and on and screw with the level of volume for them compared to my head phones.  

If I change over the the LYR, I can put the bigger speakers with the STBY on my desk, and then my wife gets here A2+ back on her small desk in the kitchen which is currently served by a Fulla2 into a Bose bluetooth speaker since I stole her A2's.

I've got load's of 6922 matched pairs and LSST's.  So changing to a new tube may screw with that, but then again, maybe I can get an adapter?


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 21, 2018)

Mumbles06 said:


> Yeah, I'm only here for 8 months, then move to Seattle area for another 8-9 months, then I'm released from my military commitment and I can go get a civilian job somewhere, but that's probably a pay cut for a year or so.  So basically, despite my ever growing family situation, I'm in a 2 bed apartment for the next 2 years or so, then probably back to a house.  But yes, space is an issue.  SoCal real estate is brutal.  I'm paying more than 1000 dollars more a month for less than half the space.  I'm military and very used to moving, so I'll figure it out.
> 
> Here's my biggest issues.  My desk has an extension that my cans and stack used to sit on, but that's now in storage in Texas.  I was using Audioengine A5+ as my desktop speakers powered by my MJ2.  They put out a lot of sound, and take a lot of space, so I kept them in their box and set up my wife's A2+ on my desk (much smaller).  The big problem is the A5+ can be put in stby with a press of the front button when I'm listening to cans and the wife doesn't want to listen.  The A2+ take up less room on the desk but are always on, meaning I have to go behind them and switch them off and on and screw with the level of volume for them compared to my head phones.
> 
> ...




2 years is a lifetime in audio gear-dom, who knows whats going to be available at that point and from who. If a smaller unit will suit your space situation for the next 2 years (I'm thinking time to ETS, getting into a new job, another possible move and a 3rd temp living location, and finally into a new house) I don't hear the LYR3 as a step back. But save your old tubes, you never know what direction your rig will take 2 years from now.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Hofy said:


> So go to eBay and get some more bigger/gooder knobs!





Deckard916 said:


> Lookit dem knawbs! Srsly tho that is a cool looking rack. Homemade?





Paladin79 said:


> https://diyaudiostore.com/collectio...n-milled-aluminum-knobs?variant=6941970235426
> 
> I like these but they can be a little pricey, great quality though.


Okay, I did NOT expect a solution to my... um... preference.  The picture looks like there's a small TORX or Allen key-anchoring screw on its side. Right?  @Paladin79 ... Also, how does one remove the existing knobs without tearing the pot off the circuit board (firm, gentle tug)?
@Hofy ... you installed it on your SYS and Magni. Was it really as simple as that?  And, that's a nice little wood Schiit-Shelving-Unit... DIY?


----------



## Paladin79

I have not removed the knobs from Schiit amps per se but generally that is how they are removed if there is not a set screw in the side. The gentleman who replaced his with some from Ebay could tell you more definitively I bet.


----------



## Astral Abyss

The knobs without a set screw just pull off.


----------



## Hofy (Jun 22, 2018)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Okay, I did NOT expect a solution to my... um... preference.  The picture looks like there's a small TORX or Allen key-anchoring screw on its side. Right?  @Paladin79 ... Also, how does one remove the existing knobs without tearing the pot off the circuit board (firm, gentle tug)?
> @Hofy ... you installed it on your SYS and Magni. Was it really as simple as that?  And, that's a nice little wood Schiit-Shelving-Unit... DIY?



The Magni 3 knob pulls off.  The SYS and Vali2 require a 1.5mm allen (hex) to remove.   The knobs I replaced the stock with are on eBay in metal and plastic in a variety of colors and prices.  I think I got mine from GD-Parts out of China for around $7.00  but this was a few years ago.  Here they are pretty cheap from another seller.  
eBay item number:
191760309923

The little rack is a DIY I made in the shop one day.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Hofy said:


> The Magni 3 knob pulls off.  The SYS and Vali2 require a 1.5mm allen (hex) to remove.   The knobs I replaced the stock with are on eBay in metal and plastic in a variety of colors and prices.  I think I got mine from GD-Parts out of China for around $7.00  but this was a few years ago.  Here they are pretty cheap from another seller.
> eBay item number:
> 191760309923
> 
> The little rack is a DIY I made in the shop one day.


Thanks, @Hofy ... That's a disturbing icon of "his master's voice".  I like it.


----------



## kumar402

I am enjoying Valhalla 2 with my Z1R in low gain mode. However to make HD 600 enjoyable with Valhalla 2 i have ordered 
JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold Pin. I hope it tames down the hot treble a bit.


----------



## Todd Fredericks

I have the Mjolnir 2 and I’m very happy with it.  Any good tube suggestions?


----------



## MWSVette

Todd Fredericks said:


> I have the Mjolnir 2 and I’m very happy with it.  Any good tube suggestions?



Try this thread. The MJ2 uses the same tubes as the Lyr...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/


----------



## tricolor

Hey folks! Happy Friday!!! Hope all is well!!!


I have a Valhalla 2... but I believe  you can use the same family... so.. JJ E88CC's have been good to my ears... not expensive at all...

NOS and Amperex for instance might be BETTER option but I really don't want to spend big bucks on tubes... 

I have ordered a pair of 6922EH from ElectroHarmonix just to give it a try... they are also quite affordable... I'll let you know in the next few weeks... 

BTW, if the  amp starts adding a  "pitch"  over the music... and I "pause" the music and/or restart the computer and it goes away...  is this a sign that the tubes are starting to fail? 

Cheers!


----------



## FLTWS

Todd Fredericks said:


> I have the Mjolnir 2 and I’m very happy with it.  Any good tube suggestions?



I like my Amperex Jan's and Telefunken's about the best. But there are plenty of top notch tubes at a lesser prices to be had.

The proof, as they say, is in the listening. Especially if your MJ2 is used both for HP and speaker listening.


----------



## Todd Fredericks

FLTWS said:


> I like my Amperex Jan's and Telefunken's about the best. But there are plenty of top notch tubes at a lesser prices to be had.
> 
> The proof, as they say, is in the listening. Especially if your MJ2 is used both for HP and speaker listening.


Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## Todd Fredericks

MWSVette said:


> Try this thread. The MJ2 uses the same tubes as the Lyr...
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-lyr-tube-rollers.673709/


Thanks!


----------



## BobG55 (Jun 29, 2018)

FLTWS said:


> _*But I was listening to my LYR3 yesterday with the "stock" Tungsol versus my MJ2 with some pricey Amperex's, both thru SE outs,and the LYR3 holds it's own quite well. I'd be hard pressed to say which I prefer.*_



What I'm about to say might cause a negative reaction amongst long time "tube rollers" who may read this.  Believe me, I'm not trolling & am just sharing my personal opinion; neither do I proclaim to be an expert about tubes which I'm not & neither am I putting down long time "tube rollers" ' opinions.  So here goes : I have a Schiit Lyr (1).  I've owned very expensive NOS Amperex & Telefunken tubes.  A few weeks ago I bought *new *(cheap) electro harmonix 6922 tubes & *new  *(relatively cheap) Genalex Gold Lions e88cc 6922. 

I concur with your statement of being hard pressed to say which you prefer between your *stock *Tungsol vs the more pricey tubes because that's exactly what I experienced also.  The reason I tried *new *tubes is because I've been burned a couple of times with expensive NOS tubes that either went defective after a few weeks or that I had to return (never without a fight) because they just didn't sound right.  To make a long story short, I sold my expensive Telefunkens & Amperex tubes & I find the sound of the new tubes to be just as good.  Finally, with new tubes I'm pretty much guaranteed "peace of mind" that they're going work without any issues.


----------



## tricolor

Good evening folks! Happy Canada Day loooong weekend to my fellow canadian friends!





BobG55 said:


> What I'm about to say might cause a negative reaction amongst long time "tube rollers" who may read this.  Believe me, I'm not trolling & am just sharing my personal opinion; neither do I proclaim to be an expert about tubes which I'm not & neither am I putting down long time "tube rollers" ' opinions.  So here goes : I have a Schiit Lyr (1).  I've owned very expensive NOS Amperex & Telefunken tubes.  A few weeks ago I bought *new *(cheap) electro harmonix 6922 tubes & *new  *(relatively cheap) Genalex Gold Lions e88cc 6922.
> 
> I concur with your statement of being hard pressed to say which you prefer between your *stock *Tungsol vs the more pricey tubes because that's exactly what I experienced also.  The reason I tried *new *tubes is because I've been burned a couple of times with expensive NOS tubes that either went defective after a few weeks or that I had to return (never without a fight) because they just didn't sound right.  To make a long story short, I sold my expensive Telefunkens & Amperex tubes & I find the sound of the new tubes to be just as good.  Finally, with new tubes I'm pretty much guaranteed "peace of mind" that they're going work without any issues.




Nice... I have not received yet the Electro Harmonix I ordered... but I have been using the JJ E88CCs and I am quite happy... I haven’t tried any fancy NOS to be honest, but it kind of scares me to see the prices to be like a few hundred bucks.... and considering tubes DO go bad... and it might be even harder and more expensive to get hold of the “good” ones... , I think I will stick to new production tubes...

 Cheers!


----------



## FLTWS (Jun 30, 2018)

Over on the LYR3 tube rolling thread the latest darling of the 6SN7 family is the Westinghouse NOS WGTB's, $22.00/single, $45.00/matched pair(last time I checked). A great sounding tube.

On the subject of JJ's, the two 12AU7's that came with my Rogue RH-5 are every bit as good as some of the pricier other brands I have tried / purchased.

That being said, with the exception of some extraordinarily expensive and rare to find RCA's the most expensive 6SN7's and 12AU7's I've come across are, in general, cheaper than many of the top shelf(?) 6DJ8's I've come across.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tricolor said:


> Good evening folks! Happy Canada Day loooong weekend to my fellow canadian friends!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heh, I wonder if the equipment from the DEW line is sitting in a warehouse somewhere. I bet they used tubes. I have this image of you plucking them off gear & plugging them into your Valhalla.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

BobG55 said:


> What I'm about to say might cause a negative reaction amongst long time "tube rollers" who may read this.  Believe me, I'm not trolling & am just sharing my personal opinion; neither do I proclaim to be an expert about tubes which I'm not & neither am I putting down long time "tube rollers" ' opinions.  So here goes : I have a Schiit Lyr (1).  I've owned very expensive NOS Amperex & Telefunken tubes.  A few weeks ago I bought *new *(cheap) electro harmonix 6922 tubes & *new  *(relatively cheap) Genalex Gold Lions e88cc 6922.
> 
> I concur with your statement of being hard pressed to say which you prefer between your *stock *Tungsol vs the more pricey tubes because that's exactly what I experienced also.  The reason I tried *new *tubes is because I've been burned a couple of times with expensive NOS tubes that either went defective after a few weeks or that I had to return (never without a fight) because they just didn't sound right.  To make a long story short, I sold my expensive Telefunkens & Amperex tubes & I find the sound of the new tubes to be just as good.  Finally, with new tubes I'm pretty much guaranteed "peace of mind" that they're going work without any issues.


_It’s one of the reasons that I’m sticking with solid-state (I.e., Magni). My lustful eyes sneak peeks at the Vali2. I have this fantasy of stopping by flea markets as I drive up to our woodlot and rummaging for tubes.
I’m intensely curious what the ‘tube sound’ is like. It’s a fascinating hybrid of 21st & 19-20th technologies.... almost diesel-punk in look! Meh, just my 2¥..._


----------



## FLTWS

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _It’s one of the reasons that I’m sticking with solid-state (I.e., Magni). My lustful eyes sneak peeks at the Vali2. I have this fantasy of stopping by flea markets as I drive up to our woodlot and rummaging for tubes.
> I’m intensely curious what the ‘tube sound’ is like. It’s a fascinating hybrid of 21st & 19-20th technologies.... almost diesel-punk in look! Meh, just my 2¥..._



With SS I find the sound consistently the same day in and day out and I find that's a big plus once you find an SS amp sound you like. 
To my ears the Ragnarok is a great sounding amp and I've always  owned pre and power amps simultaneously (and now HP amps) from both camps for the variety and the subtle (or sometimes not so subtle) differences. I do also like the Jot as long as I use it with my Loki, the Jot is very different to my ears from the Rag.

"_I’m intensely curious what the ‘tube sound’ is like." _The Force is strong with tubes, one could easily end up inside the event horizon with no chance of escape.

(_diesel-punk) _Love that terminology!!!


----------



## Mike-WI

FLTWS said:


> I do also like the Jot as long as I use it with my Loki, the Jot is very different to my ears from the Rag.


How are they different?
I have the Jot and have Rag on order (7/3 ??? backorder).

Mike


----------



## FLTWS

Mike-WI said:


> How are they different?
> I have the Jot and have Rag on order (7/3 ??? backorder).
> 
> Mike



I hear the Jot as forward or bold in the mids, unforgiving of less than well recorded highs, big / solid bass response, not much depth to the sound field. Okay for most Jazz and rock.

The Rag has a presence that is not forward or recessed, a lot of the best characteristics of a tube amp but with a bit more transparency, and extension and control at the extreme top and bottom than any of my tube HP amps. My go to SS sound for my mostly classical leanings.
I like the Rags multiple inputs both SE and balanced, that allows me to compare DACs in a relatively quick A/B fashion.
Compares surprisingly very well with my LYR3, which makes the LYR3 a bargain in my book.

Small point; I can plug and unplug my headphones (SE or balanced) without having to hold the Rag down with one hand like I do with the Jot. If your a one amp owner who leaves their phones plugged in all the time and don't do a lot of A/B comparing, it's a non-issue.


----------



## Mike-WI

FLTWS said:


> I hear the Jot as forward or bold in the mids, unforgiving of less than well recorded highs, big / solid bass response, not much depth to the sound field. Okay for most Jazz and rock.
> 
> The Rag has a presence that is not forward or recessed, a lot of the best characteristics of a tube amp but with a bit more transparency, and extension and control at the extreme top and bottom than any of my tube HP amps. My go to SS sound for my mostly classical leanings.
> I like the Rags multiple inputs both SE and balanced, that allows me to compare DACs in a relatively quick A/B fashion.
> ...


Thanks. Excited to receive my Rag and move my Jot to my home system to act as a DAC and a local HP amp.

Mike


----------



## tricolor

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Heh, I wonder if the equipment from the DEW line is sitting in a warehouse somewhere. I bet they used tubes. I have this image of you plucking them off gear & plugging them into your Valhalla.



hehehe good call...  actually, i think i saw a batch of tubes at the government surplus auction site a few years ago... i should keep an eye open just in case...


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

has anyone heard of any chance of the lyr 3 coming in black?  or am i asking to much lol


----------



## mahesvara

Black editions are available with Schiit Audio whenever they get a batch of chassis that are imperfect and there's nothing to do except to paint it black. So it's very unpredictable. I asked Schiit the same question once and that's what they told me.


----------



## Th3Drizzl3

yeah i knew that i was hoping maybe someone heard something lol


----------



## artur9

So... 

I got an AudioEngine N22 to pair up with my UberFrost (since @Jason Stoddard refuses to make me such an amp .  

Wondering if anyone has seen feet to put the UberFrost in the same orientation as the N22?


----------



## Brooklyn70

Anyone out here using the Valhalla 2 with planar cans??


----------



## Paladin79

Brooklyn70 said:


> Anyone out here using the Valhalla 2 with planar cans??



I use a Valhalla 2 with Mr Speaker Alpha primes as well as other Fostex planars on occasion. I also use the planars with a Lyr 2. Both with great results IMHO. Generally I go for more tube sound than the Valhalla but I still run it now and then.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Paladin79 said:


> I use a Valhalla 2 with Mr Speaker Alpha primes as well as other Fostex planars on occasion. I also use the planars with a Lyr 2. Both with great results IMHO. Generally I go for more tube sound than the Valhalla but I still run it now and then.


What tubes are you using? Will that make a difference?


----------



## Paladin79

I am using stock tubes but I have tried various others and honestly could not hear a lot of difference. YMMV.


----------



## Brooklyn70

Paladin79 said:


> I am using stock tubes but I have tried various others and honestly could not hear a lot of difference. YMMV.


I’m running the Jotunheim pushing Argons(moded t50mk2) talos(t50mk3 mod) he-500 and hd600.


----------



## ev99

How do I connect my Valhalla 2 to my Pioneer VSX-92TXH receiver so I can hear my HDMI sources? Tried every connection. No audio is being output through HD650 headphones connected to Valhalla 2. Thanks!


----------



## the finisher (Jul 24, 2018)

Do you have a left and right stereo analog preout, rca?

That's a monster of an AV receiver, a bit unconventional for a headphone amp source.


----------



## KLJTech (Jul 24, 2018)

ev99 said:


> How do I connect my Valhalla 2 to my Pioneer VSX-92TXH receiver so I can hear my HDMI sources? Tried every connection. No audio is being output through HD650 headphones connected to Valhalla 2. Thanks!



I haven't had a receiver in a very long time but I'm guessing it has Tape Out (outputs). Run the cables from your Tape Out on the receiver to your Valhalla. I hope this helps.

Or... as Finisher said, you can also use Preamp outputs to the headphone amp. Good luck!


----------



## the finisher

It has front left and right rca preouts.


----------



## ev99

Yes it has preouts but when I connect them I hear nothing. What source would it play? I only have HDMI in from 3 separate sources. I hear none of those. Tape out provides no audio either. Yes it’s a monster of a receiver or was. Kind of old now. Monster price too.


----------



## Brooklyn70

the finisher said:


> It has front left and right rca preouts.


Do you have a subwoofer?


----------



## ev99

Yes it’s connected to receiver. Klipsch Sub-10 I believe.


----------



## the finisher

ev99 said:


> Yes it has preouts but when I connect them I hear nothing. What source would it play? I only have HDMI in from 3 separate sources. I hear none of those. Tape out provides no audio either. Yes it’s a monster of a receiver or was. Kind of old now. Monster price too.



It should work. do you have speaker output, how about headphones on the receiver?


----------



## Brooklyn70

ev99 said:


> Yes it’s connected to receiver. Klipsch Sub-10 I believe.


The sub should have speaker outs.  Try using them


----------



## ev99

Yes speaker output is connected to Left, Center, Right, surround L and R. What do you mean headphones on the receiver? My headphones are connected to the Valhalla 2. Trying to get my HDMI sources through the receiver to the Valhalla. I assume I need an HDMI audio extractor.


----------



## ev99

Brooklyn70 said:


> The sub should have speaker outs.  Try using them



Sub has the LFE connection (White) being used running to the receiver. The Other Red one is open but can’t use only one to connect to Valhalla. Thanks.


----------



## Dana Reed

ev99 said:


> Sub has the LFE connection (White) being used running to the receiver. The Other Red one is open but can’t use only one to connect to Valhalla. Thanks.


Is there a setting in the HDMI source (blu ray or whatever) to output PCM rather than 5.1 audio?  That’s what I had to do to get audio from some devices to a DAC.  
Your receiver looks like it has optical output.  Do you have a DAC with optical input?  You could use that as a means to convert the HDMI to optical and to analog RCA for the Valhalla.
Alternately, if you have a TV, you could just output HDMI from your receiver to the TV and then feed the analog out from that to your Valhalla


----------



## ev99

Dana Reed said:


> Is there a setting in the HDMI source (blu ray or whatever) to output PCM rather than 5.1 audio?  That’s what I had to do to get audio from some devices to a DAC.
> Your receiver looks like it has optical output.  Do you have a DAC with optical input?  You could use that as a means to convert the HDMI to optical and to analog RCA for the Valhalla.
> Alternately, if you have a TV, you could just output HDMI from your receiver to the TV and then feed the analog out from that to your Valhalla



Thanks, I will try your TV solution. Yeah I know about the DAC. I don't have one yet so that would obviously work.


----------



## quanghuy147

Hi, 
I am looking for a new DAC. I am torn between Schiit Yggy (A1) and a good NOS Dac (~$1500). 

Some people in forum said that Schiit Yggy can't produce a sound as "organic" as a good NOS DAC. Yggy is more "clinical, detailed, bold and incisive". 

I'm kind of confused with the terms. If Yggy is "detailed and incisive", why can't it convey the soul and the message of the songs it plays? Why is NOS is always referred as 'organic, fatiguing free, relaxed' source? What do you think about the sound of Yggy (A1)? Is it relaxed, fatiguing free or clinical?

I don't have chance to try out many DAC so these questions keep bugging me sometimes. 

I appreciate any answers. 

Best, 
Huy.


----------



## TJ Max

I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.


----------



## RickB

TJ Max said:


> I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.



Yeah, that's no good. I would get that fixed/exchanged under warranty. It could have been damaged during shipping.


----------



## ilikepooters

quanghuy147 said:


> Hi,
> I am looking for a new DAC. I am torn between Schiit Yggy (A1) and a good NOS Dac (~$1500).
> 
> Some people in forum said that Schiit Yggy can't produce a sound as "organic" as a good NOS DAC. Yggy is more "clinical, detailed, bold and incisive".
> ...




If you're willing to try used, and a little bit higher budget... Metrum Onyx?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/METRUM-A...=item4b5b4670a3:g:GV4AAOSwm~1cQL7T:rk:18:pf:0


----------



## US Blues (Jan 26, 2019)

quanghuy147 said:


> Hi,
> I am looking for a new DAC. I am torn between Schiit Yggy (A1) and a good NOS Dac (~$1500).
> 
> Some people in forum said that Schiit Yggy can't produce a sound as "organic" as a good NOS DAC. Yggy is more "clinical, detailed, bold and incisive".
> ...



"Some people in a forum." Blah, blah blah. Of course, you're now asking people in another forum for input.

The real issue regarding a DAC is this: Does it make music that sounds like real music? Organic, clinical, syrupy, analog- all BS.

@Baldr who designed the Yggy is a musician and a huge music fan. His DAC's sound like music, not like random adjectives. My Yggy 1 sounded great. If you buy and Yggy 1 yours will sound great, and eventually you can get it upgraded and it will sound better.


----------



## artur9

quanghuy147 said:


> Hi,
> Some people in forum said that Schiit Yggy can't produce a sound as "organic" as a good NOS DAC. Yggy is more "clinical, detailed, bold and incisive".


I go to concerts fairly often.  I am often surprised at how real instruments in a real space sound so clinical, detailed, bold and incisive.

Then I go home and listen to my stereo.  It plays the same music in a very organic way.  And, I think to myself, "That's not how it's supposed to sound."


----------



## FLTWS

"Perfect Sound Forever" is one of those great lies foisted on the listening public in the early 80's for CD's (and live music doesn't have ticks & pops like vinyl or tape hiss).
It may be a perfect representation of the recording as long as the disc doesn't get damaged but its not a perfect representation of listening to the same music live.
Live music and reproduced music are two different things, once in a while our brains convince us that the "canned" experience is uncannily like being there but I think its an illusion we create for ourselves, albeit a pleasurable one. And, I like when it happens, but...
Listening with earbuds, earphones, and speakers (or other transducers, remember plasma tweeters?) are three different listening experiences and none completely replicate a live experience, there is no "HoloDeck" for music.
The most we can hope for is to discover what we like best and enjoy it for what it is and what it can do. It gives us the freedom to listen to what we want when we want.
I've been attending live classical concerts for 5 decades, I still shake my head at the multitude of differences between the live sound experience and the most expensive systems (upwards of a quarter mil) I've auditioned over the years, after every live concert. Heard a fellow once say the live experience was "too much to take in". Shades of "too many notes", LOL!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

TJ Max said:


> I've received a brand new Schiit Gungnir yesterday and I noticed that the digital coax port has a lot of wiggle play. Theres no problems with the sound, but I was wondering if this could be a cause for concern. I've already contacted Schiit about it and am waiting for a reply. But I also wanna know if any of you have experienced this.


Oh carp! Um, that doesn’t look right. Contact customer service & send them that GIF, eh.


----------



## TJ Max

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Oh carp! Um, that doesn’t look right. Contact customer service & send them that GIF, eh.



I've already sent it in for replacement this morning.


----------



## quanghuy147

I am using Coaxial Beklin cable ($33).  I'm looking for a decent BNC-to-BNC cable to use with Yggy, can you suggest some good ones? My budget is $100. I don't mind used cables. 
Thank you!


----------



## KLJTech

quanghuy147 said:


> I am using Coaxial Beklin cable ($33).  I'm looking for a decent BNC-to-BNC cable to use with Yggy, can you suggest some good ones? My budget is $100. I don't mind used cables.
> Thank you!



You should give Bluejeanscable.com a try, I've used their digital cables in the past and have always been pleased with the results. In the dropdown menu, you can select BNC's.  https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm


----------



## quanghuy147

Thanks for the useful info. Do you think there is any difference in Bluejeans BNC cables and BNC cables that advertise 100% silver?


----------



## KLJTech

quanghuy147 said:


> Thanks for the useful info. Do you think there is any difference in Bluejeans BNC cables and BNC cables that advertise 100% silver?



I've used Pangea USB cables that use a silver coating and liked them but I've not seen if any of their regular digital cables come with BNC's or not. I use solid-core silver interconnects that I think very highly of but I've not compared them to the exact same cable in copper to tell you if being made with silver wire makes a big enough difference to justify the price difference. I would imagine that any quality 75 Ohm digital cable with BNC's would work great for you. Good luck!


----------



## NikonJ

Well, looky here!  Seems like a good place to start . 

I am looking to pick up a Modi Multibit along with a Magni 3 and a Vali to either split via a Y connector or just use the SYS in a reverse configuration.  These would be connected to one of 3 sets of cans, the ATH-M50x, Grado SR225e or the Massdrop HD6XX.  I am looking for input on this stack/can combo.  I'm sure parts of this have been asked before but this thread is huge.  Any input from present users would be welcome.

For instance, I am getting the Vali as an intro to tube amps for myself.  Would you recommend this?  Or would you say scrap that idea and just go with a Jotunheim instead of the two amps/ especially with my current lineup of headphones.  I am planning on getting a higher end set of closed-backs and/or a set of Hifiman HE4XX or Monoliths in the future.

Looking forward to chatting!


----------



## Mike-WI

NikonJ said:


> Well, looky here!  Seems like a good place to start .
> 
> I am looking to pick up a Modi Multibit along with a Magni 3 and a Vali to either split via a Y connector or just use the SYS in a reverse configuration.  These would be connected to one of 3 sets of cans, the ATH-M50x, Grado SR225e or the Massdrop HD6XX.  I am looking for input on this stack/can combo.  I'm sure parts of this have been asked before but this thread is huge.  Any input from present users would be welcome.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I can answer everything, but I would say great to get the Vali to play with.
It is a very cheap way to get into tubes.
I have multiple setups but just at home:

Me (office): Jotunheim MB -> Sys (for whole house on/off capability only)
Son 1: Modi -> Vali 2
Son 2: Modi -> Magni


I put the Magni on a more cluttered desk where I was afraid of breaking a tube.


----------



## NikonJ

Mike-WI said:


> I'm not sure I can answer everything, but I would say great to get the Vali to play with.
> It is a very cheap way to get into tubes.
> I have multiple setups but just at home:
> 
> ...




What do you think of the Modi/Magni compared to the Jotunheim MB?


----------



## Mike-WI

NikonJ said:


> What do you think of the Modi/Magni compared to the Jotunheim MB?


I haven't done comparisons. I'm sure many others have.

Mike


----------



## ScubaMan2017

NikonJ said:


> Well, looky here!  Seems like a good place to start .
> 
> I am looking to pick up a Modi Multibit along with a Magni 3 and a Vali to either split via a Y connector or just use the SYS in a reverse configuration.  These would be connected to one of 3 sets of cans, the ATH-M50x, Grado SR225e or the Massdrop HD6XX.  I am looking for input on this stack/can combo.  I'm sure parts of this have been asked before but this thread is huge.  Any input from present users would be welcome.
> 
> ...



 
...
 
...
 ... I'm a visual learner @NikonJ . Happy "Frankenstein-ing" (wiring this   and that). No magic blue smoke, eh.


----------



## NikonJ

Man, that's great!  That looks like a lot of fun too!  Im excited to try this.  I still need to compare the amps in the Magni and Vali to the amp in the Jot and decide if this is the way I want to go, who knows, maybe ill get a Jot AND a Vali, lol.  Thanks for the great pics!


----------



## TJ Max

quanghuy147 said:


> Thanks for the useful info. Do you think there is any difference in Bluejeans BNC cables and BNC cables that advertise 100% silver?



I also use a Blue Jeans / Belden  1694A Coax Digital cable with a BNC connectors on both ends to connect my Parasound CD1 to my Gungnir. BJC's cables are well build and can be customized  to any lenghth and color upon order. I've also experiemented with Copper vs Silver cables in the past. And if the  difference I heard between them was real, then I perceived that the more expensive Silver cables have harsh and unpleasant treble. I'm not inclinded to buy another silver cable again, nor would I recommed them to anyone.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

NikonJ said:


> Man, that's great!  That looks like a lot of fun too!  Im excited to try this.  I still need to compare the amps in the Magni and Vali to the amp in the Jot and decide if this is the way I want to go, who knows, maybe ill get a Jot AND a Vali, lol.  Thanks for the great pics!


_*Enjoy the tweaking*_. I reached the end of the little-brushed-aluminium-box-upgrade path. The Vali 2 is an odd little toaster. I use it almost exclusively (as compared to the Magni, that sits below it all). I can't put my finger on *WHY* I do it. _*The glowing tube is mesmerising to me,*_ I guess. It _*does*_ sound different to its solid-state brother. Good luck, eh.


----------



## artur9

quanghuy147 said:


> Thanks for the useful info. Do you think there is any difference in Bluejeans BNC cables and BNC cables that advertise 100% silver?


I got a   Straight Wire S-Link Digital because I liked how it looked and the price at the cable co wasn't too bad.


----------



## the finisher (Jan 30, 2019)

artur9 said:


> I got a   Straight Wire S-Link Digital because I liked how it looked and the price at the cable co wasn't too bad.



I got my DH labs D-750 RCA to BNC for the same reason, I have a BJC digital coax and notice a minimal improvement in SQ.



quanghuy147 said:


> Thanks for the useful info. Do you think there is any difference in Bluejeans BNC cables and BNC cables that advertise 100% silver?



In my experience digital cables make the least difference, speaker/headphone cables the most.

Analog ICs coming down in the middle. I use large, shielded power cables.

As usual for such subjects YMMV


----------



## tricolor

hi there!



the finisher said:


> I got my DH labs D-750 RCA to BNC for the same reason, I have a BJC digital coax and notice a minimal improvement in SQ.
> 
> In my experience digital cables make the least difference, speaker/headphone cables the most.
> 
> ...



My system ain't any close to super high end but I also believe cables are important to a certain extent...  as long as they are not  the ones with "dollarama/dollar store" quality, we should get a  fairly decent "connection" going...  

So I will probably invest in headphones/speakers first... sources & DAC and pre-amp/amp... and use not any crazy expensive cables in between... of course if my system if worth 15k plus... my cables might be a tid bit more expensive, BUT as a group, I think it won't make any sense for me to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars in cables  if the rest of my system won't be resolving such details... 

Cheers!


----------



## Paladin79 (Jan 30, 2019)

You can get some quality cables without investing a lot, Belden makes some very good wire as well as Canare, Mogami, and even West Penn.

Start with at least OFC on headphone wire and you should be fine.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tricolor said:


> hi there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If one goes inexpensive connectors, the metal clamps might be a bit on the soft side (that's what I noticed with my Amazon Basics parts). I shy away from premium cables, as my bloody house-panthers (cats) do chew on them (on pain of water pistol-ing). I try to keep my cables neat and tucked away (that's my quirk).  And my SCUBA-ravaged ears can't pick up cheap-ass-cable analogue distortion. Meh...


----------



## JamminVMI

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _*Enjoy the tweaking*_. I reached the end of the little-brushed-aluminium-box-upgrade path. The Vali 2 is an odd little toaster. I use it almost exclusively (as compared to the Magni, that sits below it all). I can't put my finger on *WHY* I do it. _*The glowing tube is mesmerising to me,*_ I guess. It _*does*_ sound different to its solid-state brother. Good luck, eh.


Yup, the rig on my desk is Mimby & Vali 2. Can’t be beat for its size...


----------



## quanghuy147 (Jan 31, 2019)

I just received the Yggy. I noticed when it begins to play a song, there is something inside making a 'tack' sound and the led lights in the front blinks once.

What is making the 'tack' sound?

The source of music is Raspberry Pi + Allo Signature + Volumio . Coxial to Schiit.

Also, I notice that if I use Laptop - USB - Schiit, when play a song it does not 'tack' , i guess this is due to the Raspberry Pi and Volumio, they cut the signal when a song stop or it goes to next song.



Thanks!


----------



## artur9

quanghuy147 said:


> I just received the Yggy. I noticed when it begins to play a song, there is something inside making a 'tack' sound and the led lights in the front blinks once.
> 
> What is making the 'tack' sound?


IIRC the Schiit DACs all "tack" when there's a sample rate change.  I've never heard it because I preprocess everything to 96KHz.


----------



## RickB

artur9 said:


> IIRC the Schiit DACs all "tack" when there's a sample rate change.  I've never heard it because I preprocess everything to 96KHz.



For whatever reason (which I forgot) the Modi's don't do this.


----------



## quanghuy147

artur9 said:


> IIRC the Schiit DACs all "tack" when there's a sample rate change.  I've never heard it because I preprocess everything to 96KHz.



Is it a bad thing if Schiit DAC "tack" after every song? I did you preprocess everthing to 96Khz? Is preprocessing the only way to work around this?


----------



## Voxata

No, it is not a bad thing. No, you do not need to reprocess everything to 96KHz to avoid it. Completely normal.


----------



## quanghuy147

Hi, here is the answer from Schiit, it took 15mins to have them answer 

"
Hello,

Yes, the clicking sound you are referring to is the Muting relay. When the incoming datastream is interrupted, Yggdrasil will mute. The relay is rated for 15 million cycles, so don’t stress about it. Or buy a better transport. Or use USB.

"


----------



## Voxata (Jan 31, 2019)

Well, it'll still occur whenever the sampling rate changes. 15 million cycles, many things will go out 100 times over before that relay. Enjoy the tunes! I've never had a piece of Schiit go bad.


----------



## artur9

quanghuy147 said:


> I did you preprocess everthing to 96Khz?


I am assuming you meant "how" or "why".

How:  I use minimserver to feed a streamer.  I have it configured to upsample (resample?) to 96Khz/24b.

Why: One of the components in my chain (2ch, not headphones) upsamples internally to 96Khz for DSP reasons.  Since it's an older component I've assumed that the newer software running in ffmpeg is better than the chip.  ffmpeg is what minimserver is using to upsample.


----------



## quanghuy147

Oh, I'm sorry for my typo. I guess I was typing and my boss calling me doing something 

Thank you for your helpful info! I will look into minimserver.


----------



## quanghuy147

Voxata said:


> Well, it'll still occur whenever the sampling rate changes. 15 million cycles, many things will go out 100 times over before that relay. Enjoy the tunes! I've never had a piece of Schiit go bad.



Just checked, you are right, when sampling rate changes, I will hit the relay.


----------



## EElegances

The click/tack sound between songs is something I really dislike about my YGGY. The sound interrupts the flow and take me "out of the music".  They blame the source but that seems like blaming the victim to me. Most other DACs don't have a loud relay that clicks with every bitrate change.


----------



## Mike-WI

EElegances said:


> The click/tack sound between songs is something I really dislike about my YGGY. The sound interrupts the flow and take me "out of the music".  They blame the source but that seems like blaming the victim to me. Most other DACs don't have a loud relay that clicks with every bitrate change.


That was my initial reaction.
Now I am used to it and it doesn't phase me.


----------



## the finisher

I actually like it, I know its workin with out looking.


Also I listen to albums so bit-rate changes isn't really a thing for me.
Mostly redbook direct or flac, but even with Qobuz high-rez I listen to whole albums.

Guess I'm old school


----------



## blackdragon87

checking in here-really love my valhalla 2 with the hd 600


----------



## the finisher (Feb 3, 2019)

I just like to chime in here on that and say that I love my Schiit

My Lyr 2 is an outstanding headphone amplifier.

My Jotunheim is also an outstanding headphone amplifier and preamplifier.

I most certainly enjoy both and they sound completely different.

And of course I love my Yggdrasil, I will keep it forever.


----------



## Scott Kramer (Feb 3, 2019)

EElegances said:


> The click/tack sound between songs is something I really dislike about my YGGY. The sound interrupts the flow and take me "out of the music".  They blame the source but that seems like blaming the victim to me. Most other DACs don't have a loud relay that clicks with every bitrate change.



It doesn't do that with every source (software?)... _between_ tracks would be annoying!

In my case piCorePlayer does not click between tracks, also if sticking to all 44/16 even between albums it's always silent. H_owever, _if set to close the digital output (even after a delay)... it causes the Yggdrasil to click between tracks and all over the place.
I _do_ like the click when going to 24/96 etc!

Maybe that could be a hint as to possible settings & experiment, or add a pi/piCorePlayer/digioneSig as a 2nd source!


----------



## speedwheels

Fellow Schiit Owners,
I recently acquired a Schiit Lyr 1 (230v version). I was wondering if anyone knew of an internal jumper that exists that could convert the Schiit Lyr 1 from 230v to 115v(For use in the USA).   I could send it into Schiit for a conversion but if the change is as simple as switching a jumper, I could open the box up and handle it myself.. Does anyone know?


----------



## the finisher

speedwheels said:


> Fellow Schiit Owners,
> I recently acquired a Schiit Lyr 1 (230v version). I was wondering if anyone knew of an internal jumper that exists that could convert the Schiit Lyr 1 from 230v to 115v(For use in the USA).   I could send it into Schiit for a conversion but if the change is as simple as switching a jumper, I could open the box up and handle it myself.. Does anyone know?



I'm pretty sure you're going to have to rewire that transformer to 115 vac. I doubt that there is any sort of jumper.

I have taken apart my Lyr for cleaning and just to look at it and I saw no way to do that.

Certainly email Schiitt, but I doubt they'd be willing to tell you how to do it because of liability.

You may have to send it to them.

I love my Lyr2 too by the way, so it's definitely worth it to do something.


----------



## Oklahoma

speedwheels said:


> Fellow Schiit Owners,
> I recently acquired a Schiit Lyr 1 (230v version). I was wondering if anyone knew of an internal jumper that exists that could convert the Schiit Lyr 1 from 230v to 115v(For use in the USA).   I could send it into Schiit for a conversion but if the change is as simple as switching a jumper, I could open the box up and handle it myself.. Does anyone know?



I believe that Jason has said they will do the conversion on a case by case basis. I don't see any reason that they would refuse to do it for you. I am not sure the cost but should be very reasonable as it has been when I have had things repaired out of warranty.


----------



## speedwheels

Yup. I got in touch with Schiit and they quoted me a very reasonable charge for the voltage conversion so I am going to take them up on it.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

speedwheels said:


> Yup. I got in touch with Schiit and they quoted me a very reasonable charge for the voltage conversion so I am going to take them up on it.


Curious if you got any sort of warranty boost for sending it in.


----------



## speedwheels

GumbyDammit223 said:


> Curious if you got any sort of warranty boost for sending it in.


Warranty boost? hmm. I bought mine pre-owned so no warranty applies I think.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

speedwheels said:


> Warranty boost? hmm. I bought mine pre-owned so no warranty applies I think.


Just curious, because typically when you send equipment back to the manufacturer for rework, they'll warrant it for some amount of time.  With repairs, it's obviously the repair work that's warranted, but in this case it's atypical, so was wondering what they'd do, if anything.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

blackdragon87 said:


> checking in here-really love my valhalla 2 with the hd 600


Nice!
Question, @blackdragon87 ... are you using the stock tubes that shipped with the Valhalla 2?


----------



## blackdragon87

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Nice!
> Question, @blackdragon87 ... are you using the stock tubes that shipped with the Valhalla 2?



I believe they are stock, i received the Valhalla 2 from a member here 

I didn't purchase it directly from schiit


----------



## ScubaMan2017

blackdragon87 said:


> I believe they are stock, i received the Valhalla 2 from a member here
> 
> I didn't purchase it directly from schiit


Sounds good, @blackdragon87 ... I see you live in Vancouver (my old stomping ground [Marpole, West 4th & Macdonald, and Lougheed Mall [when there still was a Cariboo Hotel in Burquitlam]). Hoist a Granville Island Lager for me, eh.


----------



## Jazzman1111

Anyone interested in a Ragnarok or Raggy/Gugnir (upgraded) combo, feel free to DM me.  Looking to get rid of both, bought in '17.


----------



## JerryLeeds

Anyone know of a link to show how to open the MJ2? 

I think my fuse went again and I want to try replacing it myself ... Unit is completely dead


----------



## the finisher

JerryLeeds said:


> Anyone know of a link to show how to open the MJ2?
> 
> I think my fuse went again and I want to try replacing it myself ... Unit is completely dead




Schiit does build videos of their gear.

I haven't seen one for that amp but if you watch those videos that can be very helpful.


----------



## Deaj (Feb 22, 2019)

This stack of Schiit has been gradually building up on my desk...







Schiit EITR (hiding behind the guitar strap) ->
Schiit Modi Multibit ->
Schiit LOKI Mini ->
Schiit Saga ->
Schiit Lyr 3

...this rig is the Schiit!


----------



## tricolor

Deaj said:


> This stack of Schiit has been gradually building up on my desk...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Niiiiice... especially the Grado headphones, hehe


----------



## LuczOr

I guess I should drop a line here. I grabbed a Fulla 2 a few months back once I started using an actual nice set of earbuds at work. It was a pretty solid improvement in noise reduction over the standard headphone jack out of the computer. That led me to purchase my HE4XX which just blew me out of the water with sound stage and channel separation. That really gave me the itch so I picked up Vali 2 with a few spare tubes last week. I have been running the Fulla 2 as a DAC into the Vali 2 with the stock tube and so far I'm pretty happy with it. Interestingly, I have been A/B-ing the setup vs. just the Fulla 2 and I literally can't tell the difference once I've matched the volume. Either the Fulla 2 is the limit of the system or the stock tube I got is super transparent. Either way, my system sounds good and I'm a happy Schiithead.


----------



## Jazzman1111

tricolor said:


> Niiiiice... especially the Grado headphones, hehe


love my Grados!


----------



## Deaj (Feb 20, 2019)

tricolor said:


> Niiiiice... especially the Grado headphones, hehe



Thanks!

Both Grado headphones have Symphones Magnum V8 drivers installed. The aluminum cup set (top/right - cups from an early SR325) is an amazing headphone, a huge step up from the SR325e that got me started on Grado headphones.

The other set have Mahogany cups and a warmer tonality. I have two other Grado type headphones - one with Rosewood cups and one with Korina cups. I've also built two Grado type headphones using Angsana wood cups - easy the best sounding headphones of all the wood cupped sets I've built to date. Sadly, both were built as gifts for others (thankfully, my son has one of those headphones and he still lives at home  ).

The aluminum cupped set is still my favorite of the bunch but the Angsana set is a very close second. I am patiently looking for another set of Angsana wood cups....


----------



## peterq

I'm using Saga+Vidar to drive HE6 now, but I'm looking for a headphone instead of speaker amplifier. Anyone interested in a Vidar, please pm me.


----------



## peterq

BTW, Saga is really good for my taste, paired my DAC very well.


----------



## DangerToast (Feb 20, 2019)

Dropping back into the forums for the first time in a while. Went to Can Jam expecting to be sold on a new pair of headphones (and I almost was... but I can't afford the ether 2 at $2k). Instead I walked away super impressed with Schiit's stuff. I've used a modi 2 U going into an Asgard 2 as my desktop solution for years, but recently that had been supplanted by by ifi micro idsd BL. Hearing schiit's stuff at the show made me switch back over to the modi and asgard combo and, I don't know, maybe I just have a thing for class A but it's just so solid and full sounding. I decided to step up my game a little bit and just ordered a bifrost 2 multibit. Excited to hear how it sounds with the Asgard 2 and if it will be a big improvement over the modi 2 u. Anyway, happy listening everyone


----------



## Stirrio

Going back just a bit, I have question for the owners who were discussing the click between tracks with the Yggy--does it happen between every single track when using a CD transport as a source? As in, can you play a disc through without a clicking sound between every track? Or is it a computer audio thing? 

I currently own a Modi Multibit (which is flat-out great already) and am planning to jump straight to my end game with the Yggy. I will be using a CD transport (Rotel RCD-1072) as my only source. The clicking gives me pause about making the investment if it's going to affect every disc I play. 

Thanks for your input!


----------



## FLTWS (Feb 20, 2019)

I've never heard a click between tracks once a disc starts playing. My Emotiva ERC-3 never causes my Yggy 1 (A) to click at anytime and it's only 44.1 and won't play or output anything else. My NuPrime CDT-8 does click most times at load up of the disc with my Yggy 2(B) but never between tracks, it has a select-able sampling rate converter so maybe that's why.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

LuczOr said:


> I guess I should drop a line here. I grabbed a Fulla 2 a few months back once I started using an actual nice set of earbuds at work. It was a pretty solid improvement in noise reduction over the standard headphone jack out of the computer. That led me to purchase my HE4XX which just blew me out of the water with sound stage and channel separation. That really gave me the itch so I picked up Vali 2 with a few spare tubes last week. I have been running the Fulla 2 as a DAC into the Vali 2 with the stock tube and so far I'm pretty happy with it. Interestingly, I have been A/B-ing the setup vs. just the Fulla 2 and I literally can't tell the difference once I've matched the volume. Either the Fulla 2 is the limit of the system or the stock tube I got is super transparent. Either way, my system sounds good and I'm a happy Schiithead.


Welcome to the Sisterhood & Brotherhood of (Aural) Mutants. If you want to start rolling tubes, start monitoring the following thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-124#post-14788941

@LuczOr ... We're all quite mad here. Welcome.


----------



## Stirrio

FLTWS, thanks for that response. It eases my mind about using the Yggy for CD playback. I may have misunderstood the cause of the clicking if it's between sample rates. Appreciate it!


----------



## FLTWS

I'm CD only and have no experience with D/L music but if a playlist is put together that has different sample rates it sounds feasible. You could try and inquire at Schiit, they could probably give you a more authoritative answer.


----------



## Stirrio

FLTWS, you're right that I should go straight to the source and talk to Schiit. And let's hear it for keeping the humble CD alive and kicking! I've tried Tidal and am in the process of unloading my vinyl and analog setup. I just prefer putting a silver disc on, sitting back, and not having to deal with a computer or fussing over TT setup. And multibit sounds good enough (even with the Mimby!), I don't feel like I'm missing anything.


----------



## Focux

Hey guys, looking to find an amp from Schiit's line-up (Magni - Valhalla) or might just get the THX AAA789

i intend to use Mojo as DAC but alternatively, if say the Jotunheim (or another model) has a better DAC, i'm open to that option too

cans i'd like to drive: 650, LCD series , HD800S

thanks all =)


----------



## tricolor

Good morning  @Focux ! folks! Happy Friday!



Focux said:


> Hey guys, looking to find an amp from Schiit's line-up (Magni - Valhalla) or might just get the THX AAA789
> 
> i intend to use Mojo as DAC but alternatively, if say the Jotunheim (or another model) has a better DAC, i'm open to that option too
> 
> ...



Are you planning on hooking up to SPEAKERS down the road? I have been using a Valhalla 2 with Grado and Beyer cans... but whenever I feel like using the speakers, I really like the ability to use it as a pre-amp, feeding an EL34 tube power amp! 

My source is coming from the computer (mostly .AIFFs from CDs) and Bifrost (old generation), and I am super happy with this setup!

Might be worth keeping that in mind!
Cheers!


----------



## DangerToast

Focux said:


> Hey guys, looking to find an amp from Schiit's line-up (Magni - Valhalla) or might just get the THX AAA789
> 
> i intend to use Mojo as DAC but alternatively, if say the Jotunheim (or another model) has a better DAC, i'm open to that option too
> 
> ...



You might be looking for something a little higher end, but I am very happy with my Asgard 2. Owned it for years and it consistently performs well under a variety of circumstances and from different sources (from fiio mobile sources, to using my micro idsd black label as a source, to my modi 2 uber). I would recommend it if you like solid state stuff; it's definitely not warm sounding to my ears. That said, it's not overly detailed or clinical either, and it's certainly not "cold" sounding. It's a good all-rounder, and it's priced right.


----------



## Focux

tricolor said:


> Good morning  @Focux ! folks! Happy Friday!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



hey thanks guys,

no i don't intend to use speakers. ideally i like my music true to what it was recorded or how it was intended to sound. it's either i spend more now on the amp or dac or just go straight to higher end cans and use my mojo w it for the time being (leaning towards this).


----------



## US Blues

Stirrio said:


> FLTWS, you're right that I should go straight to the source and talk to Schiit. And let's hear it for keeping the humble CD alive and kicking! I've tried Tidal and am in the process of unloading my vinyl and analog setup. I just prefer putting a silver disc on, sitting back, and not having to deal with a computer or fussing over TT setup. And multibit sounds good enough (even with the Mimby!), *I don't feel like I'm missing anything*.



Just the surface noise.


----------



## Scott Kramer

Deaj said:


> This stack of Schiit has been gradually building up on my desk...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



heh, the white led's make for a nice lens flair effect! cool pic!


----------



## kumar402

Focux said:


> Hey guys, looking to find an amp from Schiit's line-up (Magni - Valhalla) or might just get the THX AAA789
> 
> i intend to use Mojo as DAC but alternatively, if say the Jotunheim (or another model) has a better DAC, i'm open to that option too
> 
> ...


Schiit Amp especially Valhalla 2 with Chord Mojo is going to be little bright for 800s. But will sound good with 650 and LCD because of warmer nature of headphones.
My THX will be delivered in May so I can't comment on that at this point of time.


----------



## Deaj

Scott Kramer said:


> heh, the white led's make for a nice lens flair effect! cool pic!



Thanks! 

This was an unexpected result (I know nothing about photography) but really like the effect. It draws the eyes to the intended subject of the picture, and away from the terribly fuzzy headphones in the background.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Focux said:


> hey thanks guys,
> 
> no i don't intend to use speakers. ideally i like my music true to what it was recorded or how it was intended to sound. it's either i spend more now on the amp or dac or just go straight to higher end cans and use my mojo w it for the time being (leaning towards this).


@Focux ... I *love* my brushed-aluminum Schiit boxes; however, if I had to make a choice, I'd buy better headphones over another DAC or headamp (superior end product [sound]). I've heard good things about the Mojo (it has all those weird and wonderful coloured buttons the the side right?). Let us know what you end up with, eh. 

_My next headphone will be a planar magnetic. I then have the 'holy trinity': (a closed-back) + (an HD650 )+ (a can with a different driver technology). I'm really satisfied with my two Schiit amps... they allow me to play & mix-and-match_!


----------



## Focux

kumar402 said:


> Schiit Amp especially Valhalla 2 with Chord Mojo is going to be little bright for 800s. But will sound good with 650 and LCD because of warmer nature of headphones.
> My THX will be delivered in May so I can't comment on that at this point of time.



Oh I see, how about the Asgard 2?


----------



## Focux

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @Focux ... I *love* my brushed-aluminum Schiit boxes; however, if I had to make a choice, I'd buy better headphones over another DAC or headamp (superior end product [sound]). I've heard good things about the Mojo (it has all those weird and wonderful coloured buttons the the side right?). Let us know what you end up with, eh.
> 
> _My next headphone will be a planar magnetic. I then have the 'holy trinity': (a closed-back) + (an HD650 )+ (a can with a different driver technology). I'm really satisfied with my two Schiit amps... they allow me to play & mix-and-match_!



Hahaha I agree w you on the above..


----------



## Veldrid

Been off the radar for a while and haven't been keeping up on Schiit. Just saw Ragnarok 2 and Sol are coming out very soon. Schiit, this is going to be an expensive year.


----------



## GearMe

ScubaMan2017 said:


> @Focux ... I *love* my brushed-aluminum Schiit boxes; however, if I had to make a choice,* I'd buy better headphones over another DAC or headamp* (superior end product [sound]). I've heard good things about the Mojo (it has all those weird and wonderful coloured buttons the the side right?). Let us know what you end up with, eh.
> 
> _My next headphone will be a planar magnetic. I then have the 'holy trinity': (a closed-back) + (an HD650 )+ (a can with a different driver technology). I'm really satisfied with my two Schiit amps... they allow me to play & mix-and-match_!



This...


----------



## Stirrio

US Blues said:


> Just the surface noise.



Seriously. The biggest point in favor for vinyl in the past few years--for me, anyhow--is that new releases aren't mastered as loud for LP as for CD (Beck, My Morning Jacket, Neko Case, Radiohead, Wilco, The War on Drugs, etc.). Even so, Multibit (and all I have now is the Mimby!) sounds so good I've decided to ride out the loudness wars and give up on vinyl. Surface noise, setup hassle... 

I think the Yggy is going to be my end-game. I was considering the Gumby, but with the Mimby in place I don't think I'll regret waiting and saving up.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Stirrio said:


> Seriously. The biggest point in favor for vinyl in the past few years--for me, anyhow--is that new releases aren't mastered as loud for LP as for CD (Beck, My Morning Jacket, Neko Case, Radiohead, Wilco, The War on Drugs, etc.). Even so, Multibit (and all I have now is the Mimby!) sounds so good I've decided to ride out the loudness wars and give up on vinyl. Surface noise, setup hassle...
> 
> I think the Yggy is going to be my end-game. I was considering the Gumby, but with the Mimby in place I don't think I'll regret waiting and saving up.


I just learned something! Loudness phenomena (vinyl) < (compact disc), eh. Huh. I was never a vinyl kid (cassette tapes all the way), and I hopped onto the CD bandwagon in 1989. My little multbit monster (ModiMB) does its thing. And does it very well (somehow).


----------



## the finisher

Stirrio said:


> FLTWS, you're right that I should go straight to the source and talk to Schiit. And let's hear it for keeping the humble CD alive and kicking! I've tried Tidal and am in the process of unloading my vinyl and analog setup. I just prefer putting a silver disc on, sitting back, and not having to deal with a computer or fussing over TT setup. And multibit sounds good enough (even with the Mimby!), I don't feel like I'm missing anything.




QFT


----------



## DangerToast

Holy heck my new bifrost multibit slams (and sounds really great). The difference in impact is more immediate than I anticipated.


----------



## TJ Max

DangerToast said:


> Holy heck my new bifrost multibit slams (and sounds really great). The difference in impact is more immediate than I anticipated.



I had an interest in the Bifrost recently.
I have a Modi 3 and a Modi Multibit, I've heard they sound very similar to the Bifrost versions. Is there any reason to upgrade from the Modi to the Bifrost?

Also that Asgard 2, do you consider it to be neutral and transparent?


----------



## DangerToast

TJ Max said:


> I had an interest in the Bifrost recently.
> I have a Modi 3 and a Modi Multibit, I've heard they sound very similar to the Bifrost versions. Is there any reason to upgrade from the Modi to the Bifrost?
> 
> Also that Asgard 2, do you consider it to be neutral and transparent?



After doing some soul searching, and some wallet searching, I decided to go with the bifrost multibit over the modi multibit not because I thought the sound would be dramatically different, but because I wanted something future proof and upgradable. I already blew through an original modi and a modi 2 u, both of which I loved, and I didn't want to have to sell another dac. I can tell you the bifrost multibit is certainly a tangible upgrade from the modi 2 u, but not sure about the bifrost MB vs. modi MB. Also, I just wanted something to match the size of the Asgard 2, which I've owned since 2013.

As to whether the Asgard 2 is neutral and transparent... I don't really know how to answer that. I'm not so great at identifying those qualities in audio equipment. I can tell you it's a friggin awesome solid state amp that's fast, crisp, and reasonably detailed. It can power my mrspeakers aeon closed to their full potential. It has better imaging than the amp in the ifi micro idsd Black label in my opinion. But I don't know if I would describe it as neutral right off the bat. Just not the adjective I would use. It does kick ass with lots of different genres of music.

I heard a benchmark amp at can jam that was really transparent and neutral and clear. More than the Asgard 2. But the Asgard 2 is $250 and the benchmark costs $3k. It definitely didn't sound $2750 better.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

TJ Max said:


> I had an interest in the Bifrost recently.
> I have a Modi 3 and a Modi Multibit, I've heard they sound very similar to the Bifrost versions. Is there any reason to upgrade from the Modi to the Bifrost?
> 
> Also that Asgard 2, do you consider it to be neutral and transparent?


I've heard rumblings that the the Bifrost Multibit and Modi Multibit sound *almost identical*. My vote: save up for a Gungnir Multibit (that's my plan, anyway). I haven't seen comparisons between the Magni3 and the Asgard2... yet.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

DangerToast said:


> Holy heck my new bifrost multibit slams (and sounds really great). The difference in impact is more immediate than I anticipated.


That's a NICE looking set up.


----------



## Spareribs

Gorgeous gear!


----------



## jnak00

I bought a Cthulu and man that power brick is huge!  I thought it would be the size of a laptop brick, but it's probably over twice as big.  

Buying from Schiit sucks for Canadians.  I bought a SYS and the Chtulu, so total cost of $73 USD.  Add $50 for shipping,and it worked out to $169 CAD. and then another $15 for brokerage, and all told it cost me $185 CDN to get two things that should cost $73.  Obviously the exchange and brokerage are out of Schiit's control, and I did pay a little extra for faster shipping, but still, I paid over 2.5x the US price.  I wish they had a Canadian distributor.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

jnak00 said:


> I bought a Cthulu and man that power brick is huge!  I thought it would be the size of a laptop brick, but it's probably over twice as big.
> 
> Buying from Schiit sucks for Canadians.  I bought a SYS and the Chtulu, so total cost of $73 USD.  Add $50 for shipping,and it worked out to $169 CAD. and then another $15 for brokerage, and all told it cost me $185 CDN to get two things that should cost $73.  Obviously the exchange and brokerage are out of Schiit's control, and I did pay a little extra for faster shipping, but still, I paid over 2.5x the US price.  I wish they had a Canadian distributor.


I feel your pain, @jnak00 . We get hosed at the border... for HST... for the CDN-to-USD exchange rate... for the brokerage fees (Really FedEx... REALLY?!). I've had my Cthulhu since last spring. It powers my Loki, Magni, Modi, and EITR. It's dead-quiet (no weird humm... no perceived EM-interference in my brushed aluminum boxes). _Yeah, we overpaid for it; however, it's a quality piece of hardware_. Grumble grumble grumble...I-understand-why-bootleggers-have-a-buffalo-post-office-box-and-accidentally-take-it-across-Sarnia. No no no. Be honest.


----------



## jnak00

ScubaMan2017 said:


> I feel your pain, @jnak00 . We get hosed at the border... for HST... for the CDN-to-USD exchange rate... for the brokerage fees (Really FedEx... REALLY?!). I've had my Cthulhu since last spring. It powers my Loki, Magni, Modi, and EITR. It's dead-quiet (no weird humm... no perceived EM-interference in my brushed aluminum boxes). _Yeah, we overpaid for it; however, it's a quality piece of hardware_. Grumble grumble grumble...I-understand-why-bootleggers-have-a-buffalo-post-office-box-and-accidentally-take-it-across-Sarnia. No no no. Be honest.



Fedex isn't even that bad for fees....UPS has been way worse to me in the past.  $70 in brokerage fees for a $100 package?  Are you kidding me???

Maybe it's better for me to have it cost so much...otherwise I'd probably have a lot more Schiit and a lot less cash.


----------



## Rwit

Has anybody here upgraded from a Fulla 2 to a full Modi/Magni or Modi/Vali stack who can comment on the improvements they saw by upgrading?

Is a Fulla/Magni stack worth upgrading to, or does the stack really need a Modi DAC?


----------



## kumar402

Sorry for an ignorant question. But recently I have got Meze Empyrean which is a low impedence Planars. It has impedence of 31.6.
Can I safely use it with Valahalla2 in low gain where it says the output impedenxe of 3.5. In Schiit website it is advertised to be used with planars as well.
Do you see any downside of using Valhalla2 with low impedence headphone in low gain. Does it have any long term detrimental effect on drivers?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Rwit said:


> Has anybody here upgraded from a Fulla 2 to a full Modi/Magni or Modi/Vali stack who can comment on the improvements they saw by upgrading?
> 
> Is a Fulla/Magni stack worth upgrading to, or does the stack really need a Modi DAC?


Your *Fulla 2's *volume knob is smoother (and for my ogre-sized finger tips... more controllable) than my Magni 3's pot. *My vote: *Modi/Vali2 combination... for something a little different. I'm very very pleased with my Vali's performance and it does sound different than my Magni... for what it's worth. Modi-3_* or *_Modi Multibit? *Ooof, I'll reserve judgement *(pssh, for ripped CDs [16-bit, FLAC], it's an excellent pairing for me). Unless your headphones need more oomph, I suspect your Fulla will be awesome enough. My 2 cents...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

kumar402 said:


> Sorry for an ignorant question. But recently I have got Meze Empyrean which is a low impedence Planars. It has impedence of 31.6.
> Can I safely use it with Valahalla2 in low gain where it says the output impedenxe of 3.5. In Schiit website it is advertised to be used with planars as well.
> Do you see any downside of using Valhalla2 with low impedence headphone in low gain. Does it have any long term detrimental effect on drivers?


I've suspect the Valhallas won't trash your Meze cans. I took a look at page 4 of the Valhalla2's manual: ._..Headphone Jack. This is where you plug your headphones in. Unlike most Schiit amps, Valhalla’s slow turn-on means we don’t need a muting relay. *In the case of sensitive headphones and IEMs, though, you may want to wait a minute for the amp to stabilize before plugging in*_.

What I do with my Vali 2 (when it's cold)...
a. Turn it on. Volume at zero.
b. Let it power up. While it does have a muting relay, it does make a disconcerting (but harmless) pop if I leave my headphones plugged in (and on my ears).
c. Plug in my cans. Adjust the gain switch (hi for my HD650 clones).
d. Slowly increase the volume.

On page 5, the manual comments on attaching components to the RCA-out jacks: _...Preamp Outputs. Connect to powered monitors or a speaker amp. *CAUTION*: Switch Valhalla 2 on and wait at least 30 seconds before turning on a powered monitor or amp, and turn off the powered monitor or amp before turning Valhalla 2 off. Preamp outs are muted when headphones are plugged in_.

That's not an ignorant question at all, @kumar402 . You do *NOT *want magic blue smoke coming out of your cans. The Valhalla's my next amp (0% need... my Magni/Vali combo is 100% all I need. THAT glorious 4-tube beast is 100% want).


----------



## JamminVMI

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Your *Fulla 2's *volume knob is smoother (and for my ogre-sized finger tips... more controllable) than my Magni 3's pot. *My vote: *Modi/Vali2 combination... for something a little different. I'm very very pleased with my Vali's performance and it does sound different than my Magni... for what it's worth. Modi-3_* or *_Modi Multibit? *Ooof, I'll reserve judgement *(pssh, for ripped CDs [16-bit, FLAC], it's an excellent pairing for me). Unless your headphones need more oomph, I suspect your Fulla will be awesome enough. My 2 cents...


I’ll second the modi/vali2 stack (multibit for me). In other news, I may have gone overboard with a new volume knob (but after doing it, I LOVE it for the fine control it gives me). Note that it also mostly obscures the power LED (ymmv on that one). Note that this is a 1.25” knob. I have a 0.75” one coming monday, might see what I think..


----------



## ScubaMan2017

JamminVMI said:


> I’ll second the modi/vali2 stack (multibit for me). In other news, I may have gone overboard with a new volume knob (but after doing it, I LOVE it for the fine control it gives me). Note that it also mostly obscures the power LED (ymmv on that one). Note that this is a 1.25” knob. I have a 0.75” one coming monday, might see what I think..


That image was _*GLORIOUSLY*_ bonkers. Is that solid block of milled steel... and if so, do you think its torsion could somehow damage the stock potetiometer? It's the one beef I have with both my Vali and Magni... the knobs are slick and puny (_I know. I know. Spend more money and buy a Valhalla & Asgard_). Thanks for the image post @JamminVMI


----------



## JamminVMI (Mar 10, 2019)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> That image was _*GLORIOUSLY*_ bonkers. Is that solid block of milled steel... and if so, do you think its torsion could somehow damage the stock potetiometer? It's the one beef I have with both my Vali and Magni... the knobs are slick and puny (_I know. I know. Spend more money and buy a Valhalla & Asgard_). Thanks for the image post @JamminVMI


Lol! Nah, it’s an aluminuum knob, but the extra diameter makes very fine adjustments ( for the Audioengine A2’s or Hifiman HE-4xx’s) very easy.

I thought it was comical when I first set it up, but nowI’m in love with it! And knob was $3.25!


----------



## shadowplay0

My name is Jamie, and I'm a Schiit addict (Hi, Jamie!)

Have a Lyr3, plus a Gumby to MJ2 rig. I like this stuff, ok?


----------



## Charente

shadowplay0 said:


> My name is Jamie, and I'm a Schiit addict (Hi, Jamie!)
> 
> Have a Lyr3, plus a Gumby to MJ2 rig. I like this stuff, ok?



GMB & MJ2 ... I like that stuff as well ! Not heard the LYR3 yet but if I have an MJ2, should I be worried ?!!


----------



## shadowplay0

Charente said:


> GMB & MJ2 ... I like that stuff as well ! Not heard the LYR3 yet but if I have an MJ2, should I be worried ?!!



To paraphrase Metallica: Buy Em All


----------



## ScubaMan2017

JamminVMI said:


> Lol! Nah, it’s an aluminuum knob, but the extra diameter makes very fine adjustments ( for the Audioengine A2’s or Hifiman HE-4xx’s) very easy.
> 
> I thought it was comical when I first set it up, but nowI’m in love with it! And knob was $3.25!


Question, @JamminVMI ...When you removed the stock knob, did you have to remove the top chasis? I’m assuming the potentiometer had a ‘half-moon’ spindle. I don’t know how much force one has to use to swap out knobs (and am wondering if I should grasp the switch’s base [so I don’t loosen the electrical contacts]). Straight-forward swap?


----------



## JamminVMI

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Question, @JamminVMI ...When you removed the stock knob, did you have to remove the top chasis? I’m assuming the potentiometer had a ‘half-moon’ spindle. I don’t know how much force one has to use to swap out knobs (and am wondering if I should grasp the switch’s base [so I don’t loosen the electrical contacts]). Straight-forward swap?


As straightforward as can be. Its a set-screw knob on a D-shaft (solid round shaft w/flat side). As long as you have the right tool for the set screw, takes a whole minute...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

JamminVMI said:


> As straightforward as can be. Its a set-screw knob on a D-shaft (solid round shaft w/flat side). As long as you have the right tool for the set screw, takes a whole minute...


Nice! Thanks.


----------



## msuroo

Hey all, just dropping in to say hi and put a pin in this thread.  Been running a Valhalla/Bifrost stack for a while - love it!


----------



## tricolor

msuroo said:


> Hey all, just dropping in to say hi and put a pin in this thread.  Been running a Valhalla/Bifrost stack for a while - love it!



welcome! i have been enjoying this exact combo as well, and I don’t think I have any plans of changing anytime soon...perfect as pre amp going to tube power amp and even better straight to the headphones...


----------



## Hofy

JamminVMI said:


> I’ll second the modi/vali2 stack (multibit for me). In other news, I may have gone overboard with a new volume knob (but after doing it, I LOVE it for the fine control it gives me). Note that it also mostly obscures the power LED (ymmv on that one). Note that this is a 1.25” knob. I have a 0.75” one coming monday, might see what I think..


This is the 3/4" knob I have on mine.  Love it so much better than the stock.


----------



## JamminVMI

Hofy said:


> This is the 3/4" knob I have on mine.  Love it so much better than the stock.


That actually fits better with the overall aesthetic of V2, I think. Mine’s a bit of overkill (but I like it...).


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (Mar 17, 2019)

Hofy said:


> This is the 3/4" knob I have on mine.  Love it so much better than the stock.





JamminVMI said:


> That actually fits better with the overall aesthetic of V2, I think. Mine’s a bit of overkill (but I like it...).



Thanks for the image-inspiration, @JamminVMI  . I'm assuming you _gently_ pulled off the axle. It's a half-moon shaped rod, right? Is there a tiny torx/flathead anchoring screw on the knob? I'll spook around my local surplus electronics-store._ 1/4-inch_, gotcha. BTW, that proudly-erect glass is glorious (_mine's [JJ] in the mail... on a truck from TN_).

...edit... looked at your prior post. Figured it out....
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-owners-unite.601151/page-865#post-14831052


----------



## JamminVMI

ScubaMan2017 said:


> ...edit... looked at your prior post. Figured it out....
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-owners-unite.601151/page-865#post-14831052


Pics or it didn’t happen! Glad you’re sorted!


----------



## tegR

Hello guys, seems like the perfect thread to ask. 
Expecting the Fostex t20rp mk3 any day now and have read they require a fair bit of drive to bring out the best. Mind is pretty set on the Magni/Modi 3 combo at the moment but wondering if there are better alternatives (between £200-300) i may have missed. Any help appreciated


----------



## MeltyGoblin

tegR said:


> Hello guys, seems like the perfect thread to ask.
> Expecting the Fostex t20rp mk3 any day now and have read they require a fair bit of drive to bring out the best. Mind is pretty set on the Magni/Modi 3 combo at the moment but wondering if there are better alternatives (between £200-300) i may have missed. Any help appreciated



Schiit is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to audio value propositions. The standard Modi/Magni combo is a great starter stack. Only other thing I would say to look into is the Vali 2 over the magni. The Vali 2 is slightly more than the magni, but is a tube solid state hybrid. If you like the sound of tube amps, or think you may like them, the vali 2 is an insane value proposition. Either decision, I think you will be happy with the purchase.


----------



## tegR

MeltyGoblin said:


> Schiit is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to audio value propositions. The standard Modi/Magni combo is a great starter stack. Only other thing I would say to look into is the Vali 2 over the magni. The Vali 2 is slightly more than the magni, but is a tube solid state hybrid. If you like the sound of tube amps, or think you may like them, the vali 2 is an insane value proposition. Either decision, I think you will be happy with the purchase.



Good shout. Just been reading up on the differences and looking at the specs of both. I now want both


----------



## Stratomic

tegR said:


> Good shout. Just been reading up on the differences and looking at the specs of both. I now want both



Schiit has B-stock versions of both available right now, if you want to save some money and don't need the return period.  I just ordered a B-stock Vali 2 as my first foray into headamps.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tegR said:


> Hello guys, seems like the perfect thread to ask.
> Expecting the Fostex t20rp mk3 any day now and have read they require a fair bit of drive to bring out the best. Mind is pretty set on the Magni/Modi 3 combo at the moment but wondering if there are better alternatives (between £200-300) i may have missed. Any help appreciated


At these price ranges, I doubt it. @tegR , you won't regret it.


MeltyGoblin said:


> Schiit is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to audio value propositions. The standard Modi/Magni combo is a great starter stack. Only other thing I would say to look into is the Vali 2 over the magni. The Vali 2 is slightly more than the magni, but is a tube solid state hybrid. If you like the sound of tube amps, or think you may like them, the vali 2 is an insane value proposition. Either decision, I think you will be happy with the purchase.


My HD650 clones (Massdrop) are well served by the Vali. I keep my Magni3 in case I want to get all whoo-whoo and pick up some tough-to-drive Fostex, LCD, or Mister Speaker cans. @MeltyGoblin is right on the money - the Magni/Vali are excellent amps (would I upgrade to an Asgard-2 & Valhalla2? Sure. I like the chunkier knobs & the 4-tube incandescence... I suspect it won't be a dramatic improvement. My little boxes give me 100% of what I need [?% want, eh]).


Stratomic said:


> Schiit has B-stock versions of both available right now, if you want to save some money and don't need the return period.  I just ordered a B-stock Vali 2 as my first foray into headamps.


The Vali-2's are a dandy little toaster. It's a great gateway into tube-amps.

If I had to start again, and wanted to go the non-Schiit route. JDS Labs would be my alternate. Meh... my 2 cents' worth...


----------



## JamminVMI

tegR said:


> Hello guys, seems like the perfect thread to ask.
> Expecting the Fostex t20rp mk3 any day now and have read they require a fair bit of drive to bring out the best. Mind is pretty set on the Magni/Modi 3 combo at the moment but wondering if there are better alternatives (between £200-300) i may have missed. Any help appreciated


What MeltyGoblin said. Vali2! It’s an amazng amp!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

tegR said:


> Good shout. Just been reading up on the differences and looking at the specs of both. I now want both


_Does your budget allow both?_ How about a Vali/Fulla pairing?


----------



## tegR

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _Does your budget allow both?_ How about a Vali/Fulla pairing?



My budget can change depending on how much i need/want something. I am pretty happy with my zxr soundcard, but there is no way to properly amp straight out of it which is why i'm after a combo. Plan to spdif into dac>amp, that way i can switch between the outputs easily through the soundblaster software


----------



## ScubaMan2017

JamminVMI said:


> Pics or it didn’t happen! Glad you’re sorted!


----------



## RickB

ScubaMan2017 said:


>



Schiit sent me a new volume knob for my Magni 3 when I had problems with the old one. They described how to change the knob. They never mentioned anything about glue on the knob or that it was needed for a proper fit. I didn't notice any glue on the original Magni 3 knob, but then again I wasn't really looking. The new knob works great and I haven't had any further problems.


----------



## JamminVMI

ScubaMan2017 said:


>


So your knobs were glued on originally?  Interestingness...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

JamminVMI said:


> So your knobs were glued on originally?  Interestingness...


When I *gently* pried them off (with a plastic wedge), it made an unnerving cracking sound (adhesive released). I held onto the potentiometer's base for dear life.


----------



## tricolor

Happy Friday peeps! 
Got a cool box in the mail today! woooohooo!  a pair of NOS JAN Philips 6922 for my Valhalla 2!  yayayayayay 
Gonna be  pairing a  pair of NOS  Mullard 12AT7 and new edition mullard EL34 on the amp side of my combo...
let’s see how it goes...
cheers!


----------



## Laurenesi

MeltyGoblin said:


> Schiit is pretty much the cream of the crop when it comes to audio value propositions. The standard Modi/Magni combo is a great starter stack. Only other thing I would say to look into is the Vali 2 over the magni. The Vali 2 is slightly more than the magni, but is a tube solid state hybrid. If you like the sound of tube amps, or think you may like them, the vali 2 is an insane value proposition. Either decision, I think you will be happy with the purchase.



I've been told when entering the sliding slope of head-fi that it was recommended to start with a solid state amp if it's your first and only amp, since it doesn't colour the sound. You don't agree or is the Vali 2 not that colored since it is a hybrid amp?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

I’m pleased to report lighter, grippier plastic knobs can offer more precise volume control for users with Shrek-style or Wreck-It-Ralph sized fingers.


----------



## artur9

Are we talking knobs bigger than what comes on the Fulla?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Laurenesi said:


> I've been told when entering the sliding slope of head-fi that it was recommended to start with a solid state amp if it's your first and only amp, since it doesn't colour the sound. You don't agree or is the Vali 2 not that colored since it is a hybrid amp?



Just my vote, @Laurenesi ... My Magni3 is rock solid in its performance. It's a solid state amp designed for headphones. If it's fed clean audio, it'll amplify it. Full stop.  Sure, it has a somewhat larger wall-wart; however, I know that it will drive ANY of my future headphone purchases, without any unnerving pops or possibilities of magic-blue-oh-f@@k-electrical-fire issues. You're right - solid state, especially at this price range is the way to go.  BTW - I'm having a lot of fun screwing around with my little Vali2 toaster; however, if I break it, my Magni's ready to give me aural pleasure (while I ship it back to @SchiitFerBrainz ... and he charges me a stupidity-repair-fee). 



artur9 said:


> Are we talking knobs bigger than what comes on the Fulla?


For me, the surface is ridged to allow delicate spinning. Ideally, I'd like the knobs found on some HAM radios, but that's asking a lot. The stock knob was ~1 cm in diameter. My replacements are ~2 cm. _The Fulla's is significantly larger than my kludge/mod_. _With my Shrek-style or Wreck-It-Ralph type hands, it's made it far easier to use_.


----------



## MeltyGoblin

Laurenesi said:


> I've been told when entering the sliding slope of head-fi that it was recommended to start with a solid state amp if it's your first and only amp, since it doesn't colour the sound. You don't agree or is the Vali 2 not that colored since it is a hybrid amp?


Any amp will color the sound, if you listen to the same chain, and just replace one solid state amp for another, it will sound different. Tubes tend to color sound more, in fact they actually distort sound, but it's typically in a way people like. The vali 2 tends to be a bit warmer and a bit more engaging in my experience. But your mileage may vary. Look into what people say the two amps sound like, and if you are able too, try them out before hand and choose for yourself! Only you know what you will like most.


----------



## Lougnebo (Mar 23, 2019)

For clarification, I use these with a pair of V-Moda M100 headphones, and I use Windows 7 64 bit home premium edition.

Earlier today, whenever any audio was played on my computer, there was either a deafening static noise (that would persist even after I stopped playing the audio) or deafening static with some of the regular audio breaking through. After switching out the USB into a few different ports, I stopped hearing anything. I tried plugging my headphones into the regular headphone jack, though, and those worked, and when I played any audio with the Schiit stack set as the default, sound settings would still detect audio being played (but I of course couldn't here anything). It made no difference if I used a different USB cable, but when I went and tried the stack with a laptop- it worked. I tried reinstalling the drivers, but I kept running into the "please connect the cmedia usb2.0 audio device" error message, which I could find no clear solutions on.

I thought something was wrong with the USB ports and the onboard sound, so I went and bought a USB hub to see if it made any difference- no luck. After speaking to support at a Micro Center, they emphasized this is most likely a driver issue. I eventually came across this solution:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...view-head-fi-tv.818323/page-209#post-13103026

I wasn't able to install the CMUACWO.inf file though ("The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation(, but I did uninstall the Modi driver. Still no luck with the cmedia error. And when I'd merely unplug and replug the stack, it would reinstall the driver all on it's own. I'm not sure if manually reinstalling it is going to do anything.

There doesn't seem to be any issues with the cables, and I can't really tell if the drivers are the problem. I'm really at a loss with what to do next other than contacting Schiit themselves. I have also encountered atleast one other person who experienced the loud static, though not in the order I did: https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile...tech_support_and_general_help_thread/e60xez4/


----------



## Deaj (Mar 24, 2019)

This Schiit might be getting a bit out of hand...






PC -> EITR -> MODI Multibit -> SAGA input 1
PC -> EITR -> MODI 3 -> SAGA input 2
Roland Octa-capture -> SAGA input 3
Fractal Audio AxeFX II -> SAGA input 4
(mobile sources) -> SAGA input 5
----------------------------------------------------
SAGA output 1 -> Equator D5 near field monitors
SAGA output 2 -> LOKI Mini -> SYS input
_(SYS level potentiometer removed & replaced with soldered wire jumpers to be used as a no load 1-in, 2-out A/B switch)_
SYS output 1 -> LYR 3
SYS output 2 -> MAGNI 3


----------



## FLTWS

Yes, it's tough to part with this Schiit. Instead of selling some of mine I kept buying more shelving. My place is going to be a Schiit'r look-a-like before too long.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Lougnebo said:


> ..............{snip}...........a deafening static noise (that would persist even after I stopped playing the audio) or deafening static with some of the regular audio breaking through. After switching out the USB into a few different ports, I stopped hearing anything. I tried plugging my headphones into the regular headphone jack, though, and those worked, and when I played any audio with the Schiit stack set as the default, sound settings would still detect audio being played (but I of course couldn't here anything). It made no difference if I used a different USB cable, but when I went and tried the stack with a laptop- it worked. I tried reinstalling the drivers, but I kept running into the "please connect the cmedia usb2.0 audio device" error message, which I could find no clear solutions on..............{snip}..........


Grim, @Lougnebo . My Acer Chromebook 15 occasionally does the same nonsense. It'll be playing audio normally through its 2 speakers, and then a screachy distorted racket comes out. I've exacerbated it by plugging my EITR into its USB port. I'll reboot my ChromeOS and the issue vanishes... for a time being. I suspect buggy drivers (that hand-off [?] the audio signal from the built-in speakers to the USB).
I've also had the snap-crackle-pop crop up when the flex points at the headphone-jack starts to (ultimately) fail. I ended up using a L-connector to reduce the flex to almost nothing.

Before I head out to work, here's a resource that I've used in the past (to play 'whack-a-mole' with crappy PC audio output):
https://www.howtogeek.com/285429/how-to-fix-crackling-or-popping-sound-on-a-windows-pc/
....I had a hell of a time with my elderly Lenovo T400 laptop with audio drop-outs. This app helped me figure it out (and why I abandoned my WinOS laptop and switched to ChromeOS).....

https://www.schiit.com/guides/usb-problems
....in case you didn't see this FAQ on Schiit Audio's website, eh.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Deaj said:


> This Schiit might be getting a bit out of hand...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



_You win the interwebs this morning. This image made my day_!


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka

So I did something very foolish. I ordered a Valhalla 2 even though I don’t get along with tube amplifiers...sorta like visiting a wafflehouse, when you’re allergic to waffles eh?

I did this because a) every ss amp I’ve tried sounds the same and I want something slightly different that still offers up detail..and b) because I fell for the sales talk. So when Schiit proclaims the Valhalla 2 NOT to be your father’s old tube amp, they better be right!!! Hah...
I sure hope the stock tubes are fine. Not really into the whole tube rolling thing. I only roll rolls and joints


----------



## cebuboy

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> So I did something very foolish. I ordered a Valhalla 2 even though I don’t get along with tube amplifiers...sorta like visiting a wafflehouse, when you’re allergic to waffles eh?
> 
> I did this because a) every ss amp I’ve tried sounds the same and I want something slightly different that still offers up detail..and b) because I fell for the sales talk. So when Schiit proclaims the Valhalla 2 NOT to be your father’s old tube amp, they better be right!!! Hah...
> I sure hope the stock tubes are fine. Not really into the whole tube rolling thing. I only roll rolls and joints



They sure are not your daddy’e tube amp, the Valhalla2 is quite solid state sounding with the stock tubes. The only problem with tube amps is the hunt for tubes. Good luck!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> So I did something very foolish. I ordered a Valhalla 2 even though I don’t get along with tube amplifiers...sorta like visiting a wafflehouse, when you’re allergic to waffles eh?
> 
> I did this because a) every ss amp I’ve tried sounds the same and I want something slightly different that still offers up detail..and b) because I fell for the sales talk. So when Schiit proclaims the Valhalla 2 NOT to be your father’s old tube amp, they better be right!!! Hah...
> I sure hope the stock tubes are fine. Not really into the whole tube rolling thing. I only roll rolls and joints



I purchased my Valhalla 2 this month (May, 2019). It still appears to be using the stock tubes shown on the web sites' marketing images. You *don't *have to be like me and run around the GTA looking for _*that*_ tube. *I suspect you'll be satisfied with the stock tubes as is*.  Did you do something foolish? @Kammerat Rebekka ... I doubt it. If you choose a brand new one (instead of B-stock), you're protected by Schiit's no hassle exchange policy.  If you really don't like it, you can exchange it for the 100% solid-state (and cheaper) Asgard 2 (when it finally gets off back-order).



cebuboy said:


> They sure are not your daddy’e tube amp, the Valhalla2 is quite solid state sounding with the stock tubes. The only problem with tube amps is the hunt for tubes. Good luck!


@cebuboy is right about this being a solid-state-sounding tube. I like it. I'm feeding my new toy with a Modi Multibit, and it's shmoooothhhh.


----------



## kumar402 (May 7, 2019)

Kammerat Rebekka said:


> So I did something very foolish. I ordered a Valhalla 2 even though I don’t get along with tube amplifiers...sorta like visiting a wafflehouse, when you’re allergic to waffles eh?
> 
> I did this because a) every ss amp I’ve tried sounds the same and I want something slightly different that still offers up detail..and b) because I fell for the sales talk. So when Schiit proclaims the Valhalla 2 NOT to be your father’s old tube amp, they better be right!!! Hah...
> I sure hope the stock tubes are fine. Not really into the whole tube rolling thing. I only roll rolls and joints


With stock tube they will sound little dry in treble. I hope you get JJ goldpin E88CC they at least mellow down those treble a bit and they are cheap.


----------



## Wes S

kumar402 said:


> With stock tube they will sound little dry in treble. I hope you get JJ goldpin E88CC they at least mellow down those treble a bit and they are cheap.


With the stock tubes, it doesn't even sound like a tube amp.


----------



## Paladin79

I did not notice a lot of difference with replacement tubes to be honest, I preferred the sound of the Lyr 2.


----------



## Wes S

Paladin79 said:


> I did not notice a lot of difference with replacement tubes to be honest, I preferred the sound of the Lyr 2.


Me too.  I rolled a bunch of the great 6922 variants, and the differences were small.  However, once I got an adapter and put the WE396a in the Valhalla 2, things started to change, quite a bit, for the better.  I don't like using adapters, but with this amp I did.


----------



## Paladin79 (May 7, 2019)

I have a myriad of adapters. I often go with single triode tubes as well as changing tube types. I have lots of choices and own a lot of tubes, and tube amps.


----------



## Wes S

Paladin79 said:


> I have a myriad of adapters. I often go with single triode tubes as well as changing tube types. I have lots of choices and own a lot of tubes, and tube amps.


I bet that sounds good, but I could never get past the looks to try it.


----------



## Paladin79 (May 7, 2019)

I notice a bit better separation going with single triode tubes but you need to buy the adapters then shop for tubes you like. I do have some with more standard configurations.

The Freya in particular already uses 6sn7's and there are plenty of good choices around for it.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Paladin79 said:


> I notice a bit better separation going with single triode tubes but you need to buy the adapters then shop for tubes you like. I do have some with more standard configurations.
> 
> The Freya in particular already uses 6sn7's and there are plenty of good choices around for it.




What is the bluish colored tube amp in the foreground?  Is it a headamp???


----------



## Paladin79

Mizicke5273 said:


> What is the bluish colored tube amp in the foreground?  Is it a headamp???


That is a Cary SLA 70 Mk II power amp from the mid 90’s, the Freya is its pre-amp.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Paladin79 said:


> That is a Cary SLA 70 Mk II power amp from the mid 90’s, the Freya is its pre-amp.




Ah, thanks.


----------



## tricolor

Cool setup @Paladin79 !
i have the long distant cousin, Hercules, as my power amp... it’s from Cary audio’s division called Audio electronics, and i truly love it! i can’t imagine how awesome it would be it’s big cousin...


----------



## Paladin79

tricolor said:


> Cool setup @Paladin79 !
> i have the long distant cousin, Hercules, as my power amp... it’s from Cary audio’s division called Audio electronics, and i truly love it! i can’t imagine how awesome it would be it’s big cousin...



I know they sold some kits at one point as well as finished product. This one was immaculate so I could not pass it up, 35 watts per channel class A before my mods.


----------



## Mizicke5273

Why is it that there are not more tube headamps that have layouts that are symmetrical like this!  It drives me crazy seeing some of these really nice tube amps, where the tubes are on one side or placed, what seems to be, haphazardly.


----------



## Paladin79

You can get symmetry if you work at it, maybe get a kit and modify it like I did this one. The volume control, headphone jack, power switch and RCA inputs used to be on the top.


----------



## Kammerat Rebekka (May 8, 2019)

Wes S said:


> With the stock tubes, it doesn't even sound like a tube amp.


Hah! That actually comforts me tremendously.
Thing is I’ve never heard a tube amp that I didn’t find unnecessarily muddy compared to say the amp found in my iPod.
I do love the look of them. If I can somehow retain the detail and control (especially in the bass) of an ss amp and then still get some of that juicy tube deliciousness rolled into the whole package..well schiit then I’m a happy bunny

I’ve got the Sundara, K260, HD660s, Q701, D7200, D501, Nighthawk, PRO580i as well as an incoming Takstar planar all lined up for Valhalla.
Back in the day you had to go out fighting with big swords and axes to be accepted in Valhalla. Nowadays we’re hip so Valhalla comes to you bearing tubes and a wonderfully fecal brand.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

*Happy Sunday, Schiit-Owners-Unite thread!*
Do you roll tubes in your gear... of the >$100/unit CDN variety? Would you mind popping over to the Vali 2 rolling thread and give me your thoughts?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-182#post-15000126

Thanks, eh...


----------



## bagwell359 (Oct 2, 2019)

Have a Gumby and Rag 1 - for over 3.5 years:

 

Had a Freya in hand for a bit too, interested in the Class A Aegir amps too.  Their avoidance of dealer channels lowers the price of their gear at least 30%.  Gotta love 'em, know some dealers that don't.


----------



## the finisher

I have a Ragnarok 1, Lyr 2, Jot and my pride and joy Yggdrasil.

I'm a very happy Schiit customer.


----------



## Deckard916

What the schiit?! 

https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1


----------



## spanner43

Also a very happy Schiit owner. I recently found a rack solution for my Schiit stack, and if its ok thought i would post it here. The rack was designed by lasakro over at thingiverse. For those who have or can find a 3d printer it is available here   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569  there are multiple files for 2,3,and 4 high stacks with different spacing between for ventilation needs. Any way i find it to be a very clean simple solution to stack my Schiit


----------



## genck

spanner43 said:


> Also a very happy Schiit owner. I recently found a rack solution for my Schiit stack, and if its ok thought i would post it here. The rack was designed by lasakro over at thingiverse. For those who have or can find a 3d printer it is available here   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569  there are multiple files for 2,3,and 4 high stacks with different spacing between for ventilation needs. Any way i find it to be a very clean simple solution to stack my Schiit


unplug headphones for speakers

lol


----------



## spanner43

genck said:


> unplug headphones for speakers
> 
> lol


 Yea had to do it, The wife and grand kids also use the computer, and i got tired of "wheres the sound"


----------



## Tyranids

I’ve got an original Magni Modi stack powering some Beyerdynamic T90’s. Lately I’ve been thinking about perhaps picking up a pair of the Sennheiser HD 660S. Lots say that the Sennheiser cans do well with tubes... Any thoughts here?


----------



## Voxata

Tyranids said:


> I’ve got an original Magni Modi stack powering some Beyerdynamic T90’s. Lately I’ve been thinking about perhaps picking up a pair of the Sennheiser HD 660S. Lots say that the Sennheiser cans do well with tubes... Any thoughts here?



It's a huge upgrade and a stellar pair of headphones. I'd recommend 660S for solid state 600 for tubes though.


----------



## Tyranids

Voxata said:


> It's a huge upgrade and a stellar pair of headphones. I'd recommend 660S for solid state 600 for tubes though.


Searching around, I saw this sentiment elsewhere as well. Is it due to the 660S lower output impedence? I can't seem to find the website that used to have headphone signal responses graphed, but I'd love to see a comparison between HD 600, 660 S, and even 650. I think it was "headroom graphs," but their site seems to have changed.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

spanner43 said:


> Also a very happy Schiit owner. I recently found a rack solution for my Schiit stack, and if its ok thought i would post it here. The rack was designed by lasakro over at thingiverse. For those who have or can find a 3d printer it is available here   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3207569  there are multiple files for 2,3,and 4 high stacks with different spacing between for ventilation needs. Any way i find it to be a very clean simple solution to stack my Schiit


*Those are elves on yer stack. Damn... *


----------



## spanner43

ScubaMan2017 said:


> *Those are elves on yer stack. Damn... *


They are usually very busy making stuff, but this photo caught them resting


----------



## Jalbert300

Hi all,

I originally posted this in "Schiit Happened" thread but that thread seems to have reached its size limits for this site... Maybe this is better place to post anyway...

So, I have a hum coming from Vidar that I just received few days ago. I'm working with customer support to find out what to do. Meanwhile I'd like to get some thoughts from other Schiit owners.

The hum is coming from Vidar itself with nothing connected to it. I also hear the hum from my speakers when connected (just speakers and amp connected), and the hum is much more prevalent in right speaker. Interestingly on the amp itself, I perceive the hum coming from right side of chassis which correlates with the hum being louder in right speaker.

I tried using a ground lift adapter just to test (as suggested), and that does lower hum from speakers a little bit, but this seems like a band-aid as there shouldnt be any ground loop issue since no other components are connected.

The hum aside, I also have a Saga+ and when connected I get a popping/thump sound from speakers when switching inputs/mode/mute on the Saga. Also get a nice little "pop" in speakers when I turn the Vidar off, even with just speaker connected to Vidar (no Saga connected). I realize the Saga does make a mechanical noise when switching input/mode/mute, but is it normal for that noise to translate into the speakers?


----------



## theveterans

That’s a sign of bad tubes and not ground loop. Try another 6SN7 tube and let us know


----------



## Jalbert300

theveterans said:


> That’s a sign of bad tubes and not ground loop. Try another 6SN7 tube and let us know


Which part of my “issues” is due to bad tube are you thinking?

This is brand new Saga, so I would assume the tube should be good.


----------



## onethinline

Hey all. Wanted to drop into this thread and start following along as I've had a very good first-time Schiit experience. I'm only just getting back into audio stuff, as current circumstances had me rediscovering my nice headphones (LCD-X and HD660S) and hanging out at my desk at home enjoying great music. I'd picked up a Chord Mojo a few years back along with the Audeze cans and it certainly can get the job done, but I wanted something meant for the desktop and that didn't need regular recharging. I also suspected I could do with more power than the Mojo puts out. So, I started researching and came across various next-step ideas, including of course Schiit.

I actually initially decided on a Monoprice 887 and a Modi, since it gets rave reviews and seemed a step up in "seriousness" over the Magni. But the shipping company was messing up delivery and while I semi-panicked while they said the package might have been lost, I ordered a Magni 3+ thinking it may actually be all I need.

The 887 DID eventually arrive, and it certainly made a big difference on both my cans, especially the Sennheisers, which suddenly came to life in a way I'd never heard them. But what I didn't expect was that in a bunch of careful side-by-side listening comparison feeding the same tracks via the Modi into the 887 and then the Magni, that I preferred the sound on the Magni. Significantly. It wasn't terribly subtle, either.

While the THX unit had bigger, fatter bass, the Magni was giving me a notably better sense of crispness, definition, position, and "snap." After searching around a bit more and seeing a few dissenters here and there point out that these THX AAA amps seem to compress dynamics, I realized that was almost certainly what I was noticing. Transients on the Magni had real snap and presence, whereas the same sound rounded off or subdued on the 887. This ends up affecting all those other qualities, like positioning, crispness, liveliness, etc.

So much for the much-lauded "more serious" $400 THX amp versus the humble $99 piece of Schiit. I sent the 887 back to Monoprice for a refund yesterday.

Meantime, given the one thing I did prefer on the 887 was the fuller bass, I've ordered an Asgard 3, since a Schiit rep suggested it may fill out the bass while keeping the "Schiit sound" I'm liking in the Magni. The Asgard should arrive tomorrow; I'm excited to compare. (Oh, and in the middle of all this geeking out I also ordered a Heresy just to compare with the Magni 3+ ... it's so affordable, why not, right?)

Anyway, suffice to say, so far I'm impressed with this Schiit.


----------



## ThanatosVI

New Schiit owner since this week.

Got my Loki 3 days ago.
Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit will follow later this year.

Maybe this will be my personal endgame for a very long time


----------



## Charente

ThanatosVI said:


> New Schiit owner since this week.
> 
> Got my Loki 3 days ago.
> Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit will follow later this year.
> ...



I think you'll love the MJ2 and GMB ... I've had both for 3 years now and haven't felt the need to upgrade.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Charente said:


> I think you'll love the MJ2 and GMB ... I've had both for 3 years now and haven't felt the need to upgrade.


From what I've read in the past months,  they could really be what I expect from my endgame. Super excited to get them. 
Likely will still wait a few months since I only just bought new headphones. Gotta spread out the spendings a little.

What headphones do you use with them?
Did you Tube roll?


----------



## Charente

ThanatosVI said:


> What headphones do you use with them?
> Did you Tube roll?



I use mostly Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open but also Sennheiser HD650 ... I use a cable with XLR connectors which I got from Forza Audioworks in Poland. The GMB to MJ2 cables I use Schiit's own short XLR cables. 

I did a little tube-rolling ... it can work out expensive. I quickly settled on the General Electric 5670 5-Star (they need adapters as the pins are a different configuration). These are reasonably priced at €40 the pair when I got them. I'm happy with the result.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Apr 3, 2020)

Charente said:


> I use mostly Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open but also Sennheiser HD650 ... I use a cable with XLR connectors which I got from Forza Audioworks in Poland. The GMB to MJ2 cables I use Schiit's own short XLR cables.
> 
> I did a little tube-rolling ... it can work out expensive. I quickly settled on the General Electric 5670 5-Star (they need adapters as the pins are a different configuration). These are reasonably priced at €40 the pair when I got them. I'm happy with the result.


Can you please describe the sound difference between those and the Stock tubes?
I personally will get some norne audio cables.
Edit: I checked out Forza Audioworks after reading your comment. Seems also like a viable Alternative


----------



## theveterans

Jalbert300 said:


> Which part of my “issues” is due to bad tube are you thinking?
> 
> This is brand new Saga, so I would assume the tube should be good.



Had a tube go bad with my Saga (original) and the symptoms are buzzing on speakers and when I turn the volume up or down, the clicks are also heard through the speakers. Replaced that with a NOS tube and buzzing, humming completely disappeared. In your case it might be the Vidar clearly having issues. Have you tried another integrated amp with a ground plug to see if the same problem happens?


----------



## Jalbert300

theveterans said:


> Had a tube go bad with my Saga (original) and the symptoms are buzzing on speakers and when I turn the volume up or down, the clicks are also heard through the speakers. Replaced that with a NOS tube and buzzing, humming completely disappeared. In your case it might be the Vidar clearly having issues. Have you tried another integrated amp with a ground plug to see if the same problem happens?


Okay, good to know about what a bad tube sounds like in case I ever get there, maybe i'll grab another tube for fun and compare anyway.

I dont have another amp to try, maybe i'll grab one off amazon to test and return 

I did find today that using a ground lift adapter the hum is pretty much gone from speakers. So i ordered a couple HumX plugs today, hopefully that gets rid of hum 100%.


----------



## fjblair

ThanatosVI said:


> New Schiit owner since this week.
> 
> Got my Loki 3 days ago.
> Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit will follow later this year.
> ...



The Loki was the first piece of Schiit for me too. I bought it 3-4 months ago. Now I also own a Bifrost Multibit, and have a Magni 3 and Modi on the way. I think I'm good for now.


----------



## ThanatosVI (Apr 23, 2020)

fjblair said:


> The Loki was the first piece of Schiit for me too. I bought it 3-4 months ago. Now I also own a Bifrost Multibit, and have a Magni 3 and Modi on the way. I think I'm good for now.


Sounds great!
I have plans to buy a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit some time this year.
This should be my personal endgame for a long time then.

Edit: just realized that I basically wrote the same 2 weeks ago in the quote that was responded to, maybe I shouldn't write posts in themiddle of the night


----------



## Brooklyn70

Hey all I recently terenatied the RCA inputs on my jotunheim and MJ2.   Let just get this out of the way.  I was that guy who said how much of a difference can this make.    Well it did a TON,  the bass got thicker the kids and highs got more dynamic it’s straight up crazy


----------



## Cstmar01

Long time Schiit owner here with the original magni and modi stack back in 2012. Got out of the game for awhile but recently started getting into the head fi game again and upgraded to the Jotunheim with the MB and it’s been fantastic.

Now looking to upgrade to the gungnir and the mjolnir. May look to add vidars as monos to the mix for a near field set up.

overall love this Schiit! Excited to see what else they come out with!


----------



## rickydenim

I'm looking to make a little audio listening corner in my bedroom, I now have 2 kids so need a getaway! I was looking at the Magni 3+ and Modi combo and my Samsung Note 10+ will be the source (Tidal/USB Audio Player Pro). I do currently have a Oppo HA-2 portable DAC/Amp and I guess I could put that there with my cans but I was wondering if anyone could chime in if the Schiit stack would do better than this? 
Would be using either my Q701's (bass mod) or Senn Momentum 2 over-ears.

PS. Obviously the Schiit stack would LOOK much better


----------



## bagwell359

ThanatosVI said:


> Can you please describe the sound difference between those and the Stock tubes?
> I personally will get some norne audio cables.
> Edit: I checked out Forza Audioworks after reading your comment. Seems also like a viable Alternative



Take a look at Custom Cans in the UK


----------



## bagwell359

ThanatosVI said:


> Sounds great!
> I have plans to buy a Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir Multibit some time this year.
> This should be my personal endgame for a long time then.
> 
> Edit: just realized that I basically wrote the same 2 weeks ago in the quote that was responded to, maybe I shouldn't write posts in themiddle of the night



Gumby is great, more analog than its big brother.  On paper the Mjolnir 2 seems like a great amp.  I needed the ability to drive speakers so I ended up with the Ragnarok - but I've always envied the tube option (oh yeah no longer) of the M-nir.  It's got the power even for an HE-6.  Enjoy!


----------



## ThanatosVI

bagwell359 said:


> Gumby is great, more analog than its big brother.  On paper the Mjolnir 2 seems like a great amp.  I needed the ability to drive speakers so I ended up with the Ragnarok - but I've always envied the tube option (oh yeah no longer) of the M-nir.  It's got the power even for an HE-6.  Enjoy!



Yeah from what I read even compared to their bigger siblings they bring nice features. 

Like the "more analog " sound compared to the yggi, which is offen just a matter of taste.


----------



## bagwell359

ThanatosVI said:


> Yeah from what I read even compared to their bigger siblings they bring nice features.
> 
> Like the "more analog " sound compared to the yggi, which is offen just a matter of taste.



Well the Yggi is basically a piece of lab equipment.  The Gumby errs from that level in a few ways, and intentionally or non-intentionally they can be classed as "analog" to my ear.  Put it this other way.  I had a 12.2k piece vinyl collection and basically a SoTA turntable/arm/cartridge/step-up, and I heard the Gumby 1 - and viola hardware gone, vinyl collection gone (took 5 years).  Before that DAC's sounded like torture to me, except a Krell and ARC that both cost in low $20k range each.


----------



## theveterans

bagwell359 said:


> Gumby is great, more analog than its big brother.  On paper the Mjolnir 2 seems like a great amp.  I needed the ability to drive speakers so I ended up with the Ragnarok - but I've always envied the tube option (oh yeah no longer) of the M-nir.  It's got the power even for an HE-6.  Enjoy!



Gungnir MB A2 is more neutral than even the Yggdrasil A2. I'd go for Schiit Bifrost 2 if you want to keep Gungnir MB A1's tonality


----------



## ThanatosVI

theveterans said:


> Gungnir MB A2 is more neutral than even the Yggdrasil A2. I'd go for Schiit Bifrost 2 if you want to keep Gungnir MB A1's tonality


When came Gungnir MB A2?


----------



## Cstmar01

I was searching and maybe missed it but has anyone compared the Mjolnir 1 & 2 for solid state operation side by side and provided impressions?

 Understand the 2 provides options to tube roll. After doing a lot of various tube rolling when I was mostly 2 channel I’d like to keep to just solid state for now so weighing if I should save the extra coin by going v 1 if possible.


----------



## bagwell359

theveterans said:


> Gungnir MB A2 is more neutral than even the Yggdrasil A2. I'd go for Schiit Bifrost 2 if you want to keep Gungnir MB A1's tonality



I've heard similar comments. I have a Gumby A1, with the board installed.  I'm getting buried with it probably.


----------



## roskodan

*SchiitStack*





p.s. don't worry, the Asgard 2 is not powered on.


----------



## ozz (Jun 1, 2020)

Best money I have ever spent on an amp and dac.


----------



## BrownBear

I just purchased a Modi 3 to go with my Asgard 1, and I must say I'm glad to have gotten more Schiit. Lol. To me it sounds pretty good. I have my computer feeding it with average files, nothing extra high resolution or anything crazy, but it's still a cool little DAC. And the aesthetics are nice. I'm sure some of you guys have them. I also tried the toslink in too and did some comparisons to USB, however I didn't notice any real difference. Both sounded quite nice.


----------



## ozz

I did an A/B comparison of the same song in lossless from my mac through the usb connection and the CD playing on the OPPO 203 outputting via coax and I really did not hear a difference that might be in part do to my age and limitations of my hearing or my headphones.


----------



## Monahans67

My humble attempt to love Dan Clark Aeon c, Aeon 2 c and Ether Flow c 1.1 headphones and my Schiit humble stack.


----------



## caracara08

Hey guys, should I use my old original bifrost or buy a new modi?


----------



## ThanatosVI

caracara08 said:


> Hey guys, should I use my old original bifrost or buy a new modi?


Keep the old Bifrost.


----------



## Malevolent

Monahans67 said:


> My humble attempt to love Dan Clark Aeon c, Aeon 2 c and Ether Flow c 1.1 headphones and my Schiit humble stack.


That stand looks so heavy, man. Nice stack and cans, and all, but I'm wincing a little here.


----------



## Monahans67

No its really not too heavy, lol.  Its made out of pvc.  It needed to be big enough because I had four other pair up there with these but I sold some.


----------



## blackdragon87

Checking in

Currently own
Modi 3
Modi Multibit in black
Asgard 3
Valhalla 2

soon to be the Modius


----------



## Malevolent

Monahans67 said:


> No its really not too heavy, lol.  Its made out of pvc.  It needed to be big enough because I had four other pair up there with these but I sold some.


Ahh, okay. You had me worried there for a while!

- from a Gumby Unison owner to another


----------



## foniak (Jun 3, 2020)

Why does Schiit use unbalanced cables? I have the Magni 3 and I need RCA cables. Doesnt RCA add unwanted noise and TRS or XLR would be better?

Anyway, which RCA to RCA cable would you buy in Thomann? im making a purchase there so I would like to buy there along with the rest of stuff. I just cant find the shorter ones. This one is shortest i've found:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/cordial_c...iLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6IjQiLCJsYW5ndWFnZSI6ImVuIn0=

Will it do??


----------



## tafens

foniak said:


> Why does Schiit use unbalanced cables? I have the Magni 3 and I need RCA cables. Doesnt RCA add unwanted noise and TRS or XLR would be better?
> 
> Anyway, which RCA to RCA cable would you buy in Thomann? im making a purchase there so I would like to buy there along with the rest of stuff. I just cant find the shorter ones. This one is shortest i've found:
> 
> ...



Certainly. Most any RCA audio cable will work fine. I use Schiit PYST RCA myself, they are good and half the length of those you linked, 0.15m (6 inches).


----------



## ozz

I did the same when I bought the Magni/Modi stack the PYST cables was a no brainer so i would have a working unit when it arrived without having long cables in the way.


----------



## genck

foniak said:


> Why does Schiit use unbalanced cables? I have the Magni 3 and I need RCA cables. Doesnt RCA add unwanted noise and TRS or XLR would be better?
> 
> Anyway, which RCA to RCA cable would you buy in Thomann? im making a purchase there so I would like to buy there along with the rest of stuff. I just cant find the shorter ones. This one is shortest i've found:
> 
> ...


Because you bought an entry level amplifier, balanced means nothing


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jun 5, 2020)

Hey guys,

Can someone briefly summarize the Schiit tube amp lineup?

Up and downsides of those,  when choose Lyr over Valhalla and vice versa.
Do they offer something over the Mjolnir, or is it best to go for the Mjolnir if one can afford it?

Primary use case would be planars with low impedance like Arya and Empyrean (32 Ohms) or LCD-2C (70 Ohms)


----------



## MtnMan307

I currently have:
Modi Multibit 
Vali 2
Jotunheim 
Lyr 3

New Modius should be here Monday. My 5th Schiit purchase.


----------



## PrincessLeliana (Jun 27, 2020)

Got a mjolnir and a modius in the mail, gonna paint them both pink. Very hyped for these


----------



## Deaj

My current Schiit gear:

(x2) EITR's
Modi Multibit
Modi 3
Saga
Loki Mini
Lyr 3
Magni 3
I'm likely going to swap the *EITR-> Modi 3-> Magni 3* bedroom/budget rig out for a *Modius-> Asgard 3 *at some point this year (unless a better budget Schiit headphone amp is introduced before then).

Here's the stack of Schiit on my desktop...


----------



## ssmith3046

PrincessLeliana said:


> Got a mjolnir and a modius in the mail, gonna paint them both pink. Very hyped for these


The Modius is really good.  I've owned a Modi multibit,  Modi 3, Bifrost multibit, and Bifrost 4490. I've never been a big delta sigma DAC fan but the Modius has changed my mind.


----------



## PrincessLeliana

ssmith3046 said:


> The Modius is really good.  I've owned a Modi multibit,  Modi 3, Bifrost multibit, and Bifrost 4490. I've never been a big delta sigma DAC fan but the Modius has changed my mind.


Yeah I'm super hype! I'm upgrading from having just a zendac, paired with my new hifiman anandas this is going to rock my frickin world!


----------



## johnjen

genck said:


> Because you bought an entry level amplifier, balanced means nothing


In my experience balanced connections deteriorate far less over time than rca connectors, especially if they are unplugged/pulled back in with any repetition.
This isn't a huge deal for some, but after say 6 months to a year, you pull your cables out and clean them along with their mated connectors, and then listen, well you just might gain a new appreciation for using balanced connections.

Just say'n is all.

JJ


----------



## Dyl2525

I just upgraded from a modi magni stack to a jotunheim with the multibit dac. Super excited as tomorrow it comes in and i have a balanced cable for my hd 800s which i love!


----------



## ozz

I had to upgrade and order an Asgard 3 with multibit now just waiting for delievery.


----------



## UMRKretread

One of my offspring likes my Modi 3 so much he disappeared it into his cave. Must speak to him about that. 

Has anyone compared the Modi 3 to the new Modius? I would be interested...


----------



## ssmith3046

UMRKretread said:


> One of my offspring likes my Modi 3 so much he disappeared it into his cave. Must speak to him about that.
> 
> Has anyone compared the Modi 3 to the new Modius? I would be interested...


Personally I prefer the Modius over the Modi 3. Definitely worth the extra hundred bucks. Better bass definition, a more spacious soundstage with more breathing room between the instruments. I'm putting my Modius right up there with the Modi multibit or Bifrost multibit.  Of course this is just my preference.


----------



## ozz

Its here and so far I am loving it not knocking my Modi 3/Magni3 but it just gives me more of everything.


----------



## PrincessLeliana

Anyone know how long schiit take to repair stuff? Needed a transformer change on my mjolnir and it's been in there nearly 2 weeks D:


----------



## ozz

I will say also the new Asgard3 runs cooler than my Pioneer SC-57 and it has digital amps.


----------



## wildlaurel

Schiit owners, I need your advise:

I have the Valhalla 2 and Lyr 2 primarily used as a preamp with a pair of Klipsch floor-standings. I need to know how they compare with Mjolnir 2 and would it be a worthwhile upgrade? I am looking for an overall accurate pre with a bit of tube magic..


----------



## nasty nate

Made the switch from Asgard 2 to Lyr 3 - the difference was very noticeable, now I need to fend off the urge to buy tubes...


----------



## tafens

nasty nate said:


> Made the switch from Asgard 2 to Lyr 3 - the difference was very noticeable, now I need to fend off the urge to buy tubes...



Don’t fight it, embrace it 

Seriously though, there are many good tubes both old and new that doesn’t break the bank and can be had for $25 or less. It looks like you have the new production JJ 6SN7 in there which is not bad, but I like the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7 better which they had as an option before switching to JJ. Both are about $25 from various sellers. Then there are the NOS Russian 6N8S (a 6SN7 equivalent) that can be found as low as $2.


----------



## nasty nate

tafens said:


> Don’t fight it, embrace it
> 
> Seriously though, there are many good tubes both old and new that doesn’t break the bank and can be had for $25 or less. It looks like you have the new production JJ 6SN7 in there which is not bad, but I like the new production Tung-Sol 6SN7 better which they had as an option before switching to JJ. Both are about $25 from various sellers. Then there are the NOS Russian 6N8S (a 6SN7 equivalent) that can be found as low as $2.



I thought about starting with the Tung-Sols - at the moment the Schiit website doesn't have them as an option, maybe I'm missing something. 

Where do you like to go for your tubes? I'd hate to put some tube in my new amp and have a puff of magic smoke come out!


----------



## tafens

nasty nate said:


> I thought about starting with the Tung-Sols - at the moment the Schiit website doesn't have them as an option, maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> Where do you like to go for your tubes? I'd hate to put some tube in my new amp and have a puff of magic smoke come out!



Schiit replaced the Tung-Sols with JJ, so they don’t offer them any more. But they can be bought from other places, eBay being one of them but also from some audio companies and specialised tube companies.

I have bought most tubes on eBay. I test them for shorts before putting them in the amp though, by measuring from all pins to all other pins. Only pins 7 and 8 (the heater) should have continuity.
The getter (the mirror or black surface visible on the inside glass) should be just that too, mirror or black. If it has turned white the tube has a leak and lost the vacuum and will not work correctly.
All tubes I’ve bought so far has worked fine, but of course buying from fleabay it’s hard to know in what condition the tubes really are.


----------



## Gavin C4 (Aug 3, 2020)

With Unison USB implemented across most Schiit DACs and solved the problem of USB source and even Schiit themselves stated that they recommend Unison USB over Toslink.

_"As a result, Unison USB is now our preferred input over SPDIF. It's not 'just as good,' or 'close.' It's really better than SPDIF. And yes, that's me saying this, not an alien pod person." _

Receiving DSD 64 128 194 through USB input will not be a problem. As compared to the difficulty and higher spec requirement for Toslink/Coaxial/AES to transfer DSD file. I really hope Schiit could start to look into their DAC supporting DSD, especially for USB input. Technology should improve over time.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Gavin C4 said:


> I really hope schiit dac could support DSD one day. Technology will improves over time.



It has nothing to do with technology. The chipdacs Schiit uses already support DSD. The problem is Schiit is anti-DSD and refuses to support it. It's for religious reasons, not technical reasons as in they're unable to support. Sure, they claim DSD is a scam, blah blah blah.

Alternatively, Lake People / Violetric / Nimbus also refused to support DSD. But with the new V590 DSD is supported and the engineer declares he changed his mind. That is something we can respect.


----------



## ozz

It was an easy fix for me went into the OPPO menu set the speakers full range (Large) and 2 channel only and put an SACD in and use the inputs on the Asgard 3 and I have all the DSD I want with my collection.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ozz said:


> It was an easy fix for me went into the OPPO menu set the speakers full range (Large) and 2 channel only and put an SACD in and use the inputs on the Asgard 3 and I have all the DSD I want with my collection.



That is not DSD. That's an analog stream after your Oppo converted the SACD to analog. That's perfectly fine but your schiit has nothing to do with it at all.


----------



## ozz

You are correct my multibit DAC has nothing to do with the signal with the switch flipped to input I let the DAC in the OPPO handle SACD which is DSD and yes it converts it to analog just like any DAC that will accept DSD only the Asgard 3 is handling amplification at this point and this may not be for everyone but it works for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

ozz said:


> You are correct my multibit DAC has nothing to do with the signal with the switch flipped to input I let the DAC in the OPPO handle SACD which is DSD and yes it converts it to analog just like any DAC that will accept DSD only the Asgard 3 is handling amplification at this point and this may not be for everyone but it works for me.



So you're running a headamp off your Oppo like all the rest of us


----------



## dumpsterfire

nasty nate said:


> Made the switch from Asgard 2 to Lyr 3 - the difference was very noticeable, now I need to fend off the urge to buy tubes...



I’ve owned a Lyr 3 for about a year and a half and have tried a lot of NOS tubes in it. For my money, nothing beat the new production Tung-Sols that Schiit used to sell for the amp. They’re inexpensive, lively, dynamic, detailed, slightly holographic. Don’t waste a ton of money buying tons of expensive NOS tubes, just get your hands on a new production TS and enjoy the music.


----------



## John Q Lin

I'm looking to get into schiit, but don't know where to start. I have a grace design m903. Any help would be appreciated.

Oh! Which schiit product represent the most value?

Is the high end schiit that much better?

I have many high end headphones and good speakers.


----------



## dumpsterfire

John Q Lin said:


> I'm looking to get into schiit, but don't know where to start. I have a grace design m903. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Oh! Which schiit product represent the most value?
> 
> ...



Given your stable of headphones and IEMs, I’d suggest starting with the Asgard 3 at the low end, and Lyr 3 at the higher end. If you also wanted to power efficient speakers, Ragnarok 2 will do it all.


----------



## nasty nate

John Q Lin said:


> I'm looking to get into schiit, but don't know where to start. I have a grace design m903. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Oh! Which schiit product represent the most value?
> 
> ...



Within the past 3 years I've used many Schiit amps / DACs - the Modi 3, Bifrost 2, Asgard 2, Lyr 3, Mjolnir 2; with each upgrade I noticed several differences in quality of sound. Each step up a product line in terms of cost came with noticeable upgrades. Imo the performance-for-price always matched/exceeded the previous iteration. 

My personal favorite combination (what I'm listening to right now in fact) is the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack. Coming from Mjolnir 2 and the SS Asgard 2 - I preferred the sound. Full, warm, great soundstage, very easy tube rolling, etc...

Hope this helps


----------



## RickB

nasty nate said:


> Within the past 3 years I've used many Schiit amps / DACs - the Modi 3, Bifrost 2, Asgard 2, Lyr 3, Mjolnir 2; with each upgrade I noticed several differences in quality of sound. Each step up a product line in terms of cost came with noticeable upgrades. Imo the performance-for-price always matched/exceeded the previous iteration.
> 
> My personal favorite combination (what I'm listening to right now in fact) is the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack. Coming from Mjolnir 2 and the SS Asgard 2 - I preferred the sound. Full, warm, great soundstage, very easy tube rolling, etc...
> 
> Hope this helps



Is the HD650 too warm and soft with the Lyr 3? I've read words to that effect...


----------



## nasty nate

RickB said:


> Is the HD650 too warm and soft with the Lyr 3? I've read words to that effect...



It is. You lose some of the top end, but tube rolling could change that I suppose...


----------



## tafens

nasty nate said:


> My personal favorite combination (what I'm listening to right now in fact) is the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 stack. Coming from Mjolnir 2 and the SS Asgard 2 - I preferred the sound. Full, warm, great soundstage, very easy tube rolling, etc...



I also have Bifrost2 + Lyr3 and I’m very happy with it. Listening with the HD6XX, the Lyr3 sounds superb with the (then) stock upgrade new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, and it is still my daily driver with (at least) 1500 hours on it.

I haven’t listened to any of Schiit’s higher tier offerings, but I’m so happy with the BF2+Lyr3 that I don’t really feel the need to look any higher. I will consider (read as: buy) any forthcoming upgrades to the Bifrost2 of course and Lyr4 if and when it comes!


----------



## JamminVMI

John Q Lin said:


> I'm looking to get into schiit, but don't know where to start. I have a grace design m903. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Oh! Which schiit product represent the most value?
> 
> ...


Value is the interesting bit here. My sweet spot for value/performance is the Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3 combination, which is in my main listening area. I have owned more than a few pieces of Schiit, and have picked that as my sweet spot with Planars and my Sennheiser 6xxs (which are brilliant with that combo, by the way). Perhaps if I only had the sennheisers, I'd go for Valhalla, but I really love my Hifiman Sundara, and Lyr is outstanding there. For my office, I have an older Bifrost 4490, paired with Asgard 3, which is another dynamite, solid state combo. 

Many choices, but when I have my druthers, Bifrost 2 / Lyr 3...


----------



## FLN Luco (Sep 10, 2020)

I have a *Sennheiser HD600* and I drive it with a *Fiio BTR5* (balanced output). But, I'm thinking of buying a better DAC/Amp to drive this incredible headphone.

So, after a lot of reading, I'm thinking of buying a *Schiit Magni 3+* to drive my *HD600*.

Initially, I think about this configuration:
*Notebook*
_(USB to USB-C)_
*Fiio BTR5*
_(P2 to RCA)_
*Schiit Magni 3+
Sennheiser HD600*

Questions:

1) using the *Fiio BTR5* with the *Schiit Magni 3+*, would I be using the *BTR5* as a pure DAC or as a DAC/Amp?

2) If I the *Fiio BTR5* is used as a DAC/Amp, can I have a bad result mixing the *BTR5*'s sound signature with the *Magni 3+*?

3) If I buy a *Schiit Modi 3 + Magni 3+ *combo, would I have much better result than the *BTR5 + Magni 3+*?


----------



## ssmith3046

I would think about getting the Modius for an extra hundred if you can swing it.  The Modi 3 is really good for the money and you'll be happy with it but the Modius really is a really amazing two hundred dollar DAC.  I also owned a Magni 3+ and regret selling. After I sold it I used a Neve RNHP amp that cost 5 times as much but didn't sound 5 times better to me.  I use Sennheiser HD650's.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

I have been looking at Schiit website and found many DACs option. What would be the sound benefit of getting the higher price dac?


----------



## JamminVMI

Green Golden Retriver said:


> I have been looking at Schiit website and found many DACs option. What would be the sound benefit of getting the higher price dac?


Good evening from California, krub!

In general, more detail, wider/deeper soundstage And amazing separation of discrete instruments. Obviously, the source quality really needs to be good, but that’s the idea. I've heard things on my Bifrost 2 that I didn’t know were there on many albums, the latest being the new remaster of the Beatles’ Abbey Road. You also get true balanced and better power supplies and components as you go up the ladder. I have Modi Multibit and Bifrost 2, though I have heard all their DACs. As I don’t use a USB source very often, I strongly favour separate components. What is your budget? I hope this helps answer your question.

The Schiit site has links to reviews as well. Also, another forum here by Jason Stoddard, “Schiit Happened”, and Mike Moffat’s thread “What a long, strange trip it’s been” are great places (better than this thread) to ask this question. Glad I saw your post! 

Note: Stoddard and Moffatt are Schiit’s founders, and Moffat is the digital guy who has designed all the DACs...


----------



## Green Golden Retriver (Oct 3, 2020)

JamminVMI said:


> Good evening from California, krub!
> 
> In general, more detail, wider/deeper soundstage And amazing separation of discrete instruments. Obviously, the source quality really needs to be good, but that’s the idea. I've heard things on my Bifrost 2 that I didn’t know were there on many albums, the latest being the new remaster of the Beatles’ Abbey Road. You also get true balanced and better power supplies and components as you go up the ladder. I have Modi Multibit and Bifrost 2, though I have heard all their DACs. As I don’t use a USB source very often, I strongly favour separate components. What is your budget? I hope this helps answer your question.
> 
> ...


Good afternoon from Bangkok krub

Thank you very much for your explanation krub

Does moving up the ladder of DACs bring a lot of improvements to the sound quality krub?

I felt that for amps it did especially for hard to drive hp.

but I’m wondering if for the case if DACs would it be the same

as I just watched currawong on YouTube talk about bifrost and d90 and he said it’s almost the same as the super Yaddrasil krub

I am currently just using the dac on my daps ak SR15 and cayin N3Pro connected to the amp Asgard 2 and a90 krub.

wondering if getting a bifrost or higher end stand alone dac would improve the sound quality krub lol


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

I also read a few articles on google recently that mention some random audiophile blind testing DACs form medium to high end and thier was very slight difference.


----------



## FLTWS

gmahler2u said:


> Hi.
> I was looking for desktop headphone amp for awhile, but now I'm leading toward Schiit.
> However, I can't decide which Schiit.  I like to get either Vallhalla or Lyr, but I want Lyr...but
> my bank account said Vallhalla.. I have sennheiser hd800, which one would be good for
> ...



That's a tough decision, I have both HD800 and 800S, V2 and LYR3 and both sound just fine with Senn's 300 ohm load. I would suggest LYR3 because it will works well with a lot of different phones I own or have owned including Utopia and Abyss 1266Phi. Plus if you get into tube rolling I think you'll have a lot more options with 6sn7's. Do get yourself at least 1 socket saver/lifter for the LYR3, tubes and chassis run cooler. You'll need 4 for the V2 but they are not expensive depending on the style you want.

No future plans for other phones? Then save the money and go V2. More tubes and heat and more saver/lifters but limited tube rolling options without adapters and even then the field is pretty limited in numbers available compared to 6sn7 types. 

OTL vs Hybrid amps? I like both types.


----------



## GearMe (Oct 3, 2020)

dumpsterfire said:


> Given your stable of headphones and IEMs, I’d suggest starting with the Asgard 3 at the low end, and Lyr 3 at the higher end. If you also wanted to power efficient speakers, Ragnarok 2 will do it all.


Would agree with the Asgard 3 as a great starting point...

Had a Bifrost/Valhalla 2 combo when I had a bunch of High-Z Senns and Beyers.  As my headphones changed over time, didn't 'need' an OTL amp any more and the hassle of the tube rolling 'chase'.  Kept the Bifrost and paired it with the Asgard 3...sounds very nice and drives anything I've got.

In another room's setup, I thought about getting the Lyr 3 route to have some tube 'magic' but decided to try the Cavalli/Drop CTH.  It's also very enjoyable and allows for much less tube rolling hassle than the Valhalla 2.  Going this route, also allowed me to pick up a set of Amiron Home (for a steal!) -- total for the setup was less than a Lyr 3.

S'pose I may 'upgrade' to the Lyr 3 someday but feel no itch to do so at this point.  Would rather spend the $$$ on music. 

FWIW...in a third room, I've got a Modius / Magnius combo which allows me to play some cans with balanced cables.  This combo also sounds very nice especially for the $$$

TBH...over the years, I've really gravitated to a spending priority of music, transducers, electronics.


----------



## jarredp1993

Hey folks! Tried searching but not having luck. I have a pair of ZMF Auteurs in production right now and am looking to substantiate my source gear.

I’m planning on going with a Bifrost 2 paired with a Valhalla 2. Just curious if any Schiit owners have experience with that particular setup. The other option I was thinking about was the Lyr3 with the multibit module, but think I would rather have my Amp/Dac separated.

I also have my 6XX’s which I have heard are amplified (excuse my pun) by tubes.

I currently have the basic beginner stack Modi/Magni Heresy. Looking forward to seeing if anyone can weigh in!


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

jarredp1993 said:


> Hey folks! Tried searching but not having luck. I have a pair of ZMF Auteurs in production right now and am looking to substantiate my source gear.
> 
> I’m planning on going with a Bifrost 2 paired with a Valhalla 2. Just curious if any Schiit owners have experience with that particular setup. The other option I was thinking about was the Lyr3 with the multibit module, but think I would rather have my Amp/Dac separated.
> 
> ...


I don’t have the lyr but from my personal experience the hd6xx do scale with quality amp and powerful amp


----------



## stuck limo

I have literally no idea if I've posted in here before, but I guess it can't hurt to post again. Excuse the pictures, they're not glam shots, just pretty functional. 

Pictured: Schiit Asgard 2 / Valhalla 2 / Vali 1. (Vali 1 was a repurchase after I regretted selling mine, Asgard 2 was a loan, Valhalla 2 is mine)
Headphones: LCD 3 / LCD 2 / Light Harmonic Oscar XXI IEM
Cables used: mainly Audioquest and Pangea


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

stuck limo said:


> I have literally no idea if I've posted in here before, but I guess it can't hurt to post again. Excuse the pictures, they're not glam shots, just pretty functional.
> 
> Pictured: Schiit Asgard 2 / Valhalla 2 / Vali 1. (Vali 1 was a repurchase after I regretted selling mine, Asgard 2 was a loan, Valhalla 2 is mine)
> Headphones: LCD 3 / LCD 2 / Light Harmonic Oscar XXI IEM
> Cables used: mainly Audioquest and Pangea


Do you mind sharing the main differences between the lcd2 and lcd3 from your experiences? Thanks


----------



## stuck limo

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Do you mind sharing the main differences between the lcd2 and lcd3 from your experiences? Thanks



I would, but as a Member of the Trade, I am not allowed to share publicly any sort of subjective experiences with other companies' products. Thank you for the "like" though, I hope you enjoyed the photos.


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

stuck limo said:


> I would, but as a Member of the Trade, I am not allowed to share publicly any sort of subjective experiences with other companies' products. Thank you for the "like" though, I hope you enjoyed the photos.


I understand . Thanks


----------



## JamminVMI

Green Golden Retriver said:


> Good afternoon from Bangkok krub
> 
> Thank you very much for your explanation krub
> 
> ...


Lol! I spent several years in Vientiane growing up, and the krub really shows itself in verbal conversation. I added it for you just because I still carry that polite streak with me. I also went to college with a large thai population, so it has “stuck”. I don’t mean to be flippant or funny at all, and I hope you understand. Khob chai!

so... The place to ‘start‘ is modi multibit, but frankly, Bifrost 2 is the absolute sweet spot in my opinion. You have the option of using balanced or single-ended, and it sounds brilliant either way. I personally use it single-ended and it’s brilliant.

i agree with Currawong, ang Inlike his reviews - but the future-proofing of Bifrost 2 is another plus... I am a firm believer that the sound quality of Bifrost IS WORTH THE MONEY (to my ears) krub.

Should you get it, please let me know what you think. Feel free to 
PM me. John


----------



## Mike-WI

Green Golden Retriver said:


> I have been looking at Schiit website and found many DACs option. What would be the sound benefit of getting the higher price dac?


*CHOOSING A DAC*
https://www.schiit.com/guides/choosing-a-dac


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

JamminVMI said:


> Lol! I spent several years in Vientiane growing up, and the krub really shows itself in verbal conversation. I added it for you just because I still carry that polite streak with me. I also went to college with a large thai population, so it has “stuck”. I don’t mean to be flippant or funny at all, and I hope you understand. Khob chai!
> 
> so... The place to ‘start‘ is modi multibit, but frankly, Bifrost 2 is the absolute sweet spot in my opinion. You have the option of using balanced or single-ended, and it sounds brilliant either way. I personally use it single-ended and it’s brilliant.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much krub khun Jammin 

You have very amazing understanding of thailand culture krub.

Thank for your explanation too krub.

Kob Khun Krub 🙏


----------



## Green Golden Retriver

Mike-WI said:


> *CHOOSING A DAC*
> https://www.schiit.com/guides/choosing-a-dac


Thank you for the link Mike


----------



## RickB

jarredp1993 said:


> Hey folks! Tried searching but not having luck. I have a pair of ZMF Auteurs in production right now and am looking to substantiate my source gear.
> 
> I’m planning on going with a Bifrost 2 paired with a Valhalla 2. Just curious if any Schiit owners have experience with that particular setup. The other option I was thinking about was the Lyr3 with the multibit module, but think I would rather have my Amp/Dac separated.
> 
> ...



I've owned the Valhalla 2 before; I actually prefer the Vali 2 to it. The Valhalla has a "bite" or "edge" to the sound and it also puts out quite a bit of heat with the 4 tubes. The Vali 2 in comparison has a more laid-back sound and with only 1 tube doesn't heat up the room.


----------



## MakubexGB

GearMe said:


> Would agree with the Asgard 3 as a great starting point...
> 
> Had a Bifrost/Valhalla 2 combo when I had a bunch of High-Z Senns and Beyers.  As my headphones changed over time, didn't 'need' an OTL amp any more and the hassle of the tube rolling 'chase'.  Kept the Bifrost and paired it with the Asgard 3...sounds very nice and drives anything I've got.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised not to see more mentions of the modius/magnius stack in this thread. I too have this stack and use it balanced only. I think they sound fantastic. That said, I haven't had a lot of high end amps to compare it to.

I'm interested to know what other SS amps the good folks here would recommend I try and why? Without going the tube route for purposeful distortion, I wonder what I would gain if I spent closer to $1000 on an amp. At the moment, I'd be testing the amp with the the ZMF Verite closed, the Focal Elegia and Hifiman Sundara.


----------



## JamminVMI

jarredp1993 said:


> Hey folks! Tried searching but not having luck. I have a pair of ZMF Auteurs in production right now and am looking to substantiate my source gear.
> 
> I’m planning on going with a Bifrost 2 paired with a Valhalla 2. Just curious if any Schiit owners have experience with that particular setup. The other option I was thinking about was the Lyr3 with the multibit module, but think I would rather have my Amp/Dac separated.
> 
> ...


I have B2/L


Green Golden Retriver said:


> Thank you very much krub khun Jammin
> 
> You have very amazing understanding of thailand culture krub.
> 
> ...


it was my pleasure, krub. I don’t know why I didn’t think of the Schiit article. Mike saves the day.

I try to listen more than I talk...


----------



## Rob the Comic

Yggdrasil owner here in Sydney - hope everyone is happy and healthy.

I have been a professional Stand Up for over 40 years and raise a lot of money for kids' charities; we have a very disabled (Tuberous Sclerosis) girl in the family. I only overshare this because a while back, the wife and mother-in-law said 'Rob, spend some money on yourself for once'. Oh yeah!

My first Schiit was the Bifrost 2 and I loved it to bits; such a great DAC. And like a true ex-drunk alcoholic, I immediately thought 'if some is good - more is better' and dashed off an order for an Yggdrasil. Wow. As per Schiit's recommendations, I leave it on and after 3 weeks it just keeps getting better. I have a Marantz CD6006 as transport and an Monolith Alex Cavalli Liquid Gold X and an SPL Phonitor XE as amps and I am super happy. (The Phonitor is the reference Amp but the Cavalli is no shirk at under 1KUSD and has a lovely tone). I don't stream as I have about 10,000 CD's - mainly classical and this set up has changed my life in so far as musical appreciation goes.

My cans are Focal Utopias, LCD-3's, HD650's and 600's (can't bear to part with the old legends). I have hand made interconnects and upgraded Headphone cables also. I am 60 and wanted a system I would not have top upgrade again and the Yggdrasil fits right in and assures me of that. For my age and quality of hearing, this is as good as it gets.  

Rob


----------



## eskil (Oct 6, 2020)

How can one be sure modi 3 outputs 100% gain/volume when using rca(spdif)? How do you know that it gets enough power from the usb source even?


----------



## D Smith

RickB said:


> I've owned the Valhalla 2 before; I actually prefer the Vali 2 to it. The Valhalla has a "bite" or "edge" to the sound and it also puts out quite a bit of heat with the 4 tubes. The Vali 2 in comparison has a more laid-back sound and with only 1 tube doesn't heat up the room.


I went the same way. The Valhalla got so hot in an otherwise warm room that I stopped using it and switched to my old Magni. Since then I got a Vali 2 and am very pleased with it, plus have lots of compatible tubes from the Valhalla to use with it, mostly 6922's.


----------



## Acapella48

Hello, 

I'm new to the forum.  I'm looking at putting together a desktop rig in my office area and although I don't own any Schiit, I'd like to hangout and learn how other Schiit owners are getting their Schiit together.  I figure, the best way to do that is to be where the Schiit is going down.

I've never owned a headphone amp, so I've been visiting the Schiitmosphere, reading and watching YouTube reviews.   Ordered a pair of Sennheiser HD 6XX's from Drop the other day.  These will represent my first REAL pair of headphones.  I'm 71, so I'm not exactly a newb to audio - just not familiar with this particular genre.  

My main rig is a 2-channel system built around an Audio Note OTO Phono SE Integrated amplifier, Nottingham Analogue Studio Interspace Jr. TT, Audio Note CD 2.1x/II and Audio Note AN-J/SPe speakers.  I'm not an audio snob. I like the sound of tubes; I love music and not adverse to SS.  Back in the day, I played the piano and cello.  I listen mainly to jazz, classical, some blues but mostly jazz.  I can't rock it like I used to --but I ain't dead.

Hope it was ok to post this here.  If not, mods feel free to move and/or delete.

Dwain


----------



## JamminVMI

Acapella48 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to the forum.  I'm looking at putting together a desktop rig in my office area and although I don't own any Schiit, I'd like to hangout and learn how other Schiit owners are getting their Schiit together.  I figure, the best way to do that is to be where the Schiit is going down.
> 
> ...


Welcome to out little corner of insanity! “schiitmospere”, eh? I rather like that! With that sense of humour, you belong in the ’Schiit Happened...’ thread. Since you have ordered the 6xx (I did, too), lots of folks say Valhalla 2 is the way to go. I have Asgard 3 and Lyr 3, and I love the Senny’s with both. 

My desk has a Raspberry Pi source reading from a central digital library, ouputting S/PDIF coax to a Bifrost 4490, then to Asgard 3. I use that for both headhones and the pre-outs to drive a pair of Audioengine A2s (they sound amazing). You’ll find all sorts of desktop rigs here, part of the fun.

Welcome!


----------



## Acapella48 (Oct 7, 2020)

JamminVMI said:


> Welcome to out little corner of insanity! “schiitmospere”, eh? I rather like that! With that sense of humour, you belong in the ’Schiit Happened...’ thread. Since you have ordered the 6xx (I did, too), lots of folks say Valhalla 2 is the way to go. I have Asgard 3 and Lyr 3, and I love the Senny’s with both.
> 
> My desk has a Raspberry Pi source reading from a central digital library, ouputting S/PDIF coax to a Bifrost 4490, then to Asgard 3. I use that for both headhones and the pre-outs to drive a pair of Audioengine A2s (they sound amazing). You’ll find all sorts of desktop rigs here, part of the fun.
> 
> Welcome!




Thanks!

Been eyeing both the Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 mated to a Bifrost 2.  Just wondering if there is a Bifrost 3 in the works and what that might bring to the table.  Trying to keep the overall footprint reasonable while eliminating having to use a wall wart.  To paraphrase Goldilocks:

"Ahhh, this Schiit is just right," she said happily and she ate that Schiit all up.

BTW - I have a pair of Audioengine HD 6's that have been boxed up for the past 3 years.


----------



## jnak00

Acapella48 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Been eyeing both the Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 mated to a Bifrost 2.  Just wondering if there is a Bifrost 3 in the works and what that might bring to the table.  Trying to keep the overall footprint reasonable while eliminating having to use a wall wart.  To paraphrase Goldilocks:
> 
> ...



I would think a Bifrost 3 is a long, long way off.  Bifrost 2 just came out last year and is upgradeable.  We haven't even seen any upgrades for BF2, let alone thinking about BF3.


----------



## nasty nate

Acapella48 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm new to the forum.  I'm looking at putting together a desktop rig in my office area and although I don't own any Schiit, I'd like to hangout and learn how other Schiit owners are getting their Schiit together.  I figure, the best way to do that is to be where the Schiit is going down.
> 
> ...



Just my 2 cents: I run the Bifrost 2 and Lyr 3 combo with the HD800S and it's incredible. Tube rolling is easy (I have a _treasure globe 6sn7-se _on the way ), and it has plenty of power for anything you throw at it, speakers included. I'm listening to them right now.

No need to wait for the Bifrost 3 either - the 2 is 'modular' in a sense - so you can swap out some of the components when they develop them... 

Hope this helps - welcome to the *schiitmospere *


----------



## JamminVMI

Acapella48 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Been eyeing both the Asgard 3 and Lyr 3 mated to a Bifrost 2.  Just wondering if there is a Bifrost 3 in the works and what that might bring to the table.  Trying to keep the overall footprint reasonable while eliminating having to use a wall wart.  To paraphrase Goldilocks:
> 
> ...


Bifrost 2 is pretty (read: very) new, so doubtful there. It’s also made to be upgradable (hdw and firmware).  So now your choice is easier... Or not.


----------



## KneeDeep

Quite a few pieces of Schiit in my chain, and it all started with getting a Fulla 3. Currently using the Mjolnir 2 paired with an rme adi-2 to power LCD-4s, MJ2 + planars = a perfect match. Also have a modi 3 in my living for my tv along with a Vidar powering some buchardt speakers. Love the warm musical sound the Schiit products have to my ears.


----------



## davym

Hi folks i'm looking to finally replace my stand-in amp, a Freds Amps dual chip Cmoy, with something better. Budget is low so i'm looing at a Vali 2. My current cans are AKG 712 pro, they seem quite power hungry for low impedance cans though i can drive them pretty loud from the JR4556 op-amp i fitted i'd like an afordable upgrade and the Vali 2 is just about in budget. I'm wondering about how good a pairing they will make.....

Cheers  D


----------



## JamminVMI

davym said:


> Hi folks i'm looking to finally replace my stand-in amp, a Freds Amps dual chip Cmoy, with something better. Budget is low so i'm looing at a Vali 2. My current cans are AKG 712 pro, they seem quite power hungry for low impedance cans though i can drive them pretty loud from the JR4556 op-amp i fitted i'd like an afordable upgrade and the Vali 2 is just about in budget. I'm wondering about how good a pairing they will make.....
> 
> Cheers  D


I have Vali and the K7xx (retrofitted w/the 712s pads). It’s a great combination, you won’t regret it!


----------



## Ryno1330

Hi friends. New Schiit convert here. I love my Heresy/Modi setup but am going to move it to another room and make a small change to my main listening spot. I've heard the Asgard 3 is a touch warmer which is what I want for that situation. 

My question is will someone that isn't deep in the game of multiple setups and headphones and ultra critical listening appreciate much of a difference between the Modius and the Bifrost 2? I know nobody can speak for my ears lol 😆. Or is the difference really quite minimal and the upgradability more of the difference?

I am a touch high frequency sensitive and have good headphones (Sony Mdr Z1rs primarily but also hd6xx) and listen to top quality sources. This setup is more for enjoyment and less for super critical listening. I listen to primarily rock (classic, hard, metal), pop, 50s/60s, soul and blues but also some classical and scores. 

Thanks for any opinions!


----------



## JamminVMI

Ryno1330 said:


> Hi friends. New Schiit convert here. I love my Heresy/Modi setup but am going to move it to another room and make a small change to my main listening spot. I've heard the Asgard 3 is a touch warmer which is what I want for that situation.
> 
> My question is will someone that isn't deep in the game of multiple setups and headphones and ultra critical listening appreciate much of a difference between the Modius and the Bifrost 2? I know nobody can speak for my ears lol 😆. Or is the difference really quite minimal and the upgradability more of the difference?
> 
> ...


I certainly did! And I'm 60, so my ears are old and busted, so to speak. I listen to everything you do and more (maybe less metal <g>), but yes, it's a significant upgrade in terms of sound. I'm all single-ended, as well.


----------



## G0rt

JamminVMI said:


> I certainly did! And I'm 60, so my ears are old and busted, so to speak. I listen to everything you do and more (maybe less metal <g>), but yes, it's a significant upgrade in terms of sound. I'm all single-ended, as well.



65, and a bit DOG (Deaf Olde Guy) eared myself, deaf as a post over 12k.

Symptomatic of a wonderfully misspent youth, rock concerts, flight lines, gun ranges, biker bars and computer rooms.

Still getting my Schiit together, and discovering Grados, which seem to have been designed by DOGs for DOGs.


----------



## tamtrum

G0rt said:


> 65, and a bit DOG (Deaf Olde Guy) eared myself, deaf as a post over 12k.
> 
> Symptomatic of a wonderfully misspent youth, rock concerts, flight lines, gun ranges, biker bars and computer rooms.
> 
> Still getting my Schiit together, and discovering Grados, which seem to have been designed by DOGs for DOGs.



That‘s a beautiful schiit family. I seriously like the look of the black chassis over the silver ones.


----------



## G0rt

tamtrum said:


> That‘s a beautiful schiit family. I seriously like the look of the black chassis over the silver ones.



I don't mind silver, but I'll usually take black if I can get it. There's a Lyr3 just out of frame, and Magni3 and Vali2 behind, and a Modi3 around here somewhere.

The Saga lets me switch Mimby, Gumby and the Bifrost 4490, and drives the Jot, Asgard2 and Valhalla2 with minimal interaction. One knob to rule them all, and a remote.

But Gumby goes balanced direct to Mjolnir2, and SE to Lyr3. No remote, though.

I surely don't need all this Schiit, but it IS fun to play with. Today, Mimby to Asgard, buffered, to a Grado GS2000e. 

Goodnessness.


----------



## tamtrum

Holy schiit that’s a lot, hah! Ive been looking for a black Freya S/+ to match my all black bifrost2 > Valhalla 2 > BHA-1 stack but it looks like it’s a rare commodity.


----------



## G0rt

tamtrum said:


> Holy schiit that’s a lot, hah! Ive been looking for a black Freya S/+ to match my all black bifrost2 > Valhalla 2 > BHA-1 stack but it looks like it’s a rare commodity.



It IS kind of altar like, isn't it...

I'd need a silver Freya to match the other big Schiit, but right now my 2 channel is fed through a little SYS, and may soon get a Loki.


----------



## JamminVMI

G0rt said:


> 65, and a bit DOG (Deaf Olde Guy) eared myself, deaf as a post over 12k.
> 
> Symptomatic of a wonderfully misspent youth, rock concerts, flight lines, gun ranges, biker bars and computer rooms.
> 
> Still getting my Schiit together, and discovering Grados, which seem to have been designed by DOGs for DOGs.


Et tu, Brute? Underground in a missile silo, gun ranges, concerts and etc. Been there, lost that, so to speak...


----------



## JamminVMI

G0rt said:


> It IS kind of altar like, isn't it...
> 
> I'd need a silver Freya to match the other big Schiit, but right now my 2 channel is fed through a little SYS, and may soon get a Loki.


Worth it. Loki is the PA sent from above (or Newhall or whatever...)


----------



## blackdragon87

my current set up


----------



## mostlydan

Hey y'all, wanted to drop in and thank everyone for the years' worth of reviews and opinions here. I bought my first Schiit (Jotunheim + MB dac) after lurking around HF a few years ago and haven't looked back. Still rocking the Jotunheim and added a Bifrost 2 this week. 

I've had two "jaw drop" audio moments: when I upgraded from skull candy ear buds to some Audio-Technica M50Xs like 10 years ago (yeah I know, I was young then), and then two years ago when my Jot arrived and I plugged in my HD650s. I'm not great at describing sound, and, frankly, I don't have the best hearing, but this setup blew me away and I've been enjoying it every day for years now. In short, the Jot has been worth every penny and I'm looking forward to adding the Bifrost when it arrives.


----------



## ScottFree

mostlydan said:


> I've had two "jaw drop" audio moments: when I upgraded from skull candy ear buds



You know my brother gave me a pair of Skull Candy ear buds for Christmas. Worst piece of false advertising I've ever seen.


----------



## mostlydan

ScottFree said:


> You know my brother gave me a pair of Skull Candy ear buds for Christmas. Worst piece of false advertising I've ever seen.



hahaha, I actually chuckled out loud at my desk. This is also why joined HF—to be a part of a community that gets this.


----------



## torifile

Currently A/Bing the Jotunheim with multiibit DAC against the Asgard 3. It's not a scientific test because I'm using the Jot as the DAC for the Asgard while I wait for my Modius to arrive. 



Does anyone know if the the DAC card from the Jot can fit the Asgard?


----------



## jnak00

I believe the DAC card is the same for all the amps, but you could email Schiit and make sure.


----------



## Ryno1330

torifile said:


> Currently A/Bing the Jotunheim with multiibit DAC against the Asgard 3. It's not a scientific test because I'm using the Jot as the DAC for the Asgard while I wait for my Modius to arrive.
> 
> Does anyone know if the the DAC card from the Jot can fit the Asgard?


Either way looking forward to your thoughts.


----------



## torifile

Ryno1330 said:


> Either way looking forward to your thoughts.


I'm not versed in audiophile lingo or very good at reviewing things so I'll just give my layperson's impressions.

After about an hour of back and forth, it's clear that the Jot is slightly less warm than the Asgard. Is that worse? Not really, depending on the song. For certain songs, the crispness is a better sound (some Radiohead, for example) and for others, it takes the warmth out of the Bon Iver's vocals. I prefer a warmer sound for my acoustic music so for Bon Iver, the Asgard seems preferable. For my electronically driven music, the Jot seems better.

For The National, the crisp delivery of the Jot makes the stellar drumming stand out but the warmth is lost from the vocals. Again, depending on the song, I might prefer one or there other.

My source is Roon playing 44.1/16bit flac with the Audeze LCD2-C preset. I'll post more thoughts as I have them.


----------



## tafens

torifile said:


> Currently A/Bing the Jotunheim with multiibit DAC against the Asgard 3. It's not a scientific test because I'm using the Jot as the DAC for the Asgard while I wait for my Modius to arrive.
> 
> Does anyone know if the the DAC card from the Jot can fit the Asgard?



Yes. The Jotunheim, Asgard3, Lyr3, and also Ragnarok2 all use the same cards. I have moved a multibit card from a Lyr3 into and Asgard3 myself. Not very complicated, but you should be comfortable around electronics, and opening the Jot/Lyr3 can be a bit of a hassle as they don’t use screws to fix the top plate to the chassis.


----------



## torifile

tafens said:


> Yes. The Jotunheim, Asgard3, Lyr3, and also Ragnarok2 all use the same cards. I have moved a multibit card from a Lyr3 into and Asgard3 myself. Not very complicated, but you should be comfortable around electronics, and opening the Jot/Lyr3 can be a bit of a hassle as they don’t use screws to fix the top plate to the chassis.


I've watched a video on opening the Jot up and it seems within my skillset. I've got an interesting dilemma now:
1) Keep the Jot with multi-bit DAC
2) put the multi-bit DAC in the Asgard and sell the Jot and Modius that's en route
or 3) go with the Modius/Asgard stack.

I'm listening to the Jot through a balanced connection right now. I'll switch to the Asgard later and see how that sounds.


----------



## JohnnyOps

Modius inbound....


----------



## ssmith3046

JohnnyOps said:


> Modius inbound....


Plug in and play,  sounds great out of the box IMO


----------



## Hondadude85

Asgard 3/Modius stack on the way. So excited!


----------



## ssmith3046

Hondadude85 said:


> Asgard 3/Modius stack on the way. So excited!


I've been using the Asgard 2 and Modius and enjoying the combo. I think it's time for an Asgard 3 though.  It's amazing the bang for your buck Schiit gives you.


----------



## JohnnyOps

Currently pairing Modius with Emotiva A-100 (driving Paradigm Atom v5’s I had sitting around, as well as my HD-6XX’s).  Beefier near field desktop set-up than I was ever imagining, but WFH during the pandemic has made for a lot of listening while working. Loving it.


----------



## torifile

My Modius arrived today and I've been listening to the Jot with MB DAC and the Modius/Asgard combo. I've gone back and forth about which I prefer because they're largely indistinguishable from one another but there is something a little more alive with the Modius/Asgard than with the Jot. I can't put my finger on it.


----------



## Ryno1330

Hey guys. I'm really undecided on the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 (will order a Bifrost 2 with it). 

Anyone compared them? Are they more similar than different?


----------



## tafens

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey guys. I'm really undecided on the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 (will order a Bifrost 2 with it).
> 
> Anyone compared them? Are they more similar than different?



I have both, compared with the Bifrost2 which I also have.

TL;DR:
Asgard3 is very good, but I prefer the Lyr3.

The slightly longer version:
My Lyr3 is equipped with a new production Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB, and I use HD6XX headphones.
Using Lyr3 as the reference, the Asgard3 has less wide/deep soundstage (more in your head). Is a bit less engaging, less dynamic (the toe-tapping factor). Asgard3 also has less low end bass/more upper mids emphasis and is perhaps a bit more dry sounding. YMMV and all that applies of course. Then there’s the tube rolling factor as well, which may be both a pro and a con (I think it’s great and you only need one tube with the Lyr3).

I hope this helps


----------



## Ryno1330

tafens said:


> I have both, compared with the Bifrost2 which I also have.
> 
> TL;DR:
> Asgard3 is very good, but I prefer the Lyr3.
> ...


Thanks - very helpful! Also nice that one of my headphones is the HD6xx.  My primary one is the Sony Z1rs. I was leaning towards the Lyr but haven't read much on it yet.


----------



## ozz

Currawang had said in one of his videos the Bifrost was like a mini Yggdrasil and for the money difference that seems to be a plus he also said in a blind a/b he probably could not pick out the Asgard3 over the Lyr so that speaks volumes for the performance of the Asgard3 if you trust his reviews I do or agree with most of his findings so far.


----------



## Ryno1330

tafens said:


> I have both, compared with the Bifrost2 which I also have.
> 
> TL;DR:
> Asgard3 is very good, but I prefer the Lyr3.
> ...


If I could ask a follow-up (to anyone really), are tube amps ready to go in a few minutes after warming up? I'm used to guitar amps which are good to go in a minute or two but have never used a tube headphone amp.


----------



## ozz

Ryno1330 said:


> If I could ask a follow-up (to anyone really), are tube amps ready to go in a few minutes after warming up? I'm used to guitar amps which are good to go in a minute or two but have never used a tube headphone amp.


Back when I had tube gear inside of 15 minutes it was ready and sounded great but it was better sounding than just a few after start up.


----------



## ssmith3046

Ryno1330 said:


> If I could ask a follow-up (to anyone really), are tube amps ready to go in a few minutes after warming up? I'm used to guitar amps which are good to go in a minute or two but have never used a tube headphone amp.


I've owned tube receivers and integrated amps, one tube headphone amp, and always found that after 30 minutes the were warm and sounding great.  I wouldn't wait 30 minutes before starting a record but they just hit the mark after a half hour or so.


----------



## Acapella48

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey guys. I'm really undecided on the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 (will order a Bifrost 2 with it).
> 
> Anyone compared them? Are they more similar than different?




I will be mating a Lyr3 with a Bifrost 2.  Waiting for a pair of HD6XX's to arrive first.


----------



## Acapella48

ssmith3046 said:


> I've owned tube receivers and integrated amps, one tube headphone amp, and always found that after 30 minutes the were warm and sounding great. I wouldn't wait 30 minutes before starting a record but they just hit the mark after a half hour or so.




30 minutes sounds about right.  I have all tube gear in my main system.  MFG of my integrated suggests 30 minutes to allow the tubes to reach their optimum sonic performance.

Never owned a hybrid anything before and this will be my first headphone amp but in general, I would imagine a bedding-in period would be needed for SS, hybrid and all tube circuitry.


----------



## Ryno1330

Good to know about the tubes. I like to listen in bed before I go to sleep and a 30 minute warmup isn't something I have time for. Seems like the Asgard will be the better choice for me.


----------



## ssmith3046

Ryno1330 said:


> Good to know about the tubes. I like to listen in bed before I go to sleep and a 30 minute warmup isn't something I have time for. Seems like the Asgard will be the better choice for me.


Plus tube rolling is addictive.  A large rabbit hole to go down.


----------



## tafens

Ryno1330 said:


> If I could ask a follow-up (to anyone really), are tube amps ready to go in a few minutes after warming up? I'm used to guitar amps which are good to go in a minute or two but have never used a tube headphone amp.



The Lyr3 is ready to go in just under two minutes I think. It has a bit longer delay than the Asgard3 to allow for the tube to warm up and stabilise before the muting relay clicks in. I have started listening directly after power-on on both the Lyr3 and Asgard3 and they both sound great without any special warmup time.

That said, it is generally considered good to let amps (and dacs) warm up to their thermal equilibrium to sound their very best, and that goes for both tube gear and solid state alike. Therefore I usually turn my equipment on about half an hour to an hour before I know I’m going to listen and let it sit while I do other things I need to do. But, if for some reason I don’t turn it on beforehand, no worries, it sounds great anyway.


----------



## JamminVMI

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey guys. I'm really undecided on the Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 (will order a Bifrost 2 with it).
> 
> Anyone compared them? Are they more similar than different?


I’m completely with @tafens on this. Asgard 3 is on my desk, with an OG Bifrost. I use ghis mainly with Audioengine A2speakers, couldn’t be happier. Also at the desk I use Hifiman HE4xx or AKG K7xx, both of which sound great. My main rig is Bifrost 2 to Lyr 3, with a NOS Baldwin at the moment. That rig uses either the Sundara or HD-6xx. Lyr 3, if I were choosing.


----------



## Acapella48

My HD 6XX's arrived and I placed an order with Schiit for the Lyr 3 / Bifrost 2.  Not sure if this is the appropriate thread to post this but since it's specific to the Lyr 3, I'm wondering which cans people are finding works best with the Lyr 3.  

If you could only choose two different headphones, which ones could you be happiest with?


----------



## JamminVMI

Acapella48 said:


> My HD 6XX's arrived and I placed an order with Schiit for the Lyr 3 / Bifrost 2.  Not sure if this is the appropriate thread to post this but since it's specific to the Lyr 3, I'm wondering which cans people are finding works best with the Lyr 3.
> 
> If you could only choose two different headphones, which ones could you be happiest with?


6xx and sundara


----------



## tafens

Acapella48 said:


> My HD 6XX's arrived and I placed an order with Schiit for the Lyr 3 / Bifrost 2.  Not sure if this is the appropriate thread to post this but since it's specific to the Lyr 3, I'm wondering which cans people are finding works best with the Lyr 3.
> 
> If you could only choose two different headphones, which ones could you be happiest with?



I have that exact same setup - Lyr3, Bifrost2 and HD6XX- sounds fabulous!


----------



## G0rt

My Lyr3/7N7 is driven by OG Gungnir Multibit, not a fancy-shmancy Bifrosting, but it still sounds ... fabuloso, with EVERY can in the house.


----------



## JohnnyOps

So so so good.  Listening to Mendellsohn's Hebrides Overture (the LSO / Gardiner release) on Tidal through my Modius -> Emotiva A-100 -> HD-6XX (and when kids are out, through my Paradigm Atom's).  So utterly lovely and the congestion I used to hear in the most dynamic sections is just gone.  So so so good.


----------



## Ryno1330

Hey all, upgrading my schiit stack and wondering if balanced isn't important to me, whether there is much of an audible difference between the Modi 3 and the Modius? Has anyone heard them both side by side?


----------



## ssmith3046

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey all, upgrading my schiit stack and wondering if balanced isn't important to me, whether there is much of an audible difference between the Modi 3 and the Modius? Has anyone heard them both side by side?


Big difference in my opinion.  Modius is well worth twice the cost of a Modi 3, and that's not using balanced.


----------



## JohnnyOps

ssmith3046 said:


> Big difference in my opinion.  Modius is well worth twice the cost of a Modi 3, and that's not using balanced.



Yeah, I'll second that wholeheartedly.  Like twice as wholeheartedly.  I run it SE, and I don't know if I'll ever switch to balanced, and it's magic.  My Modi 3 was sprightly and clear, but not nearly as fun or smooth.  Realize those are crappy words, but I mean 'em.  Difference to me interestingly manifested much more over my KEF Q150's than my Senn HD-6XX's.  Not to say there isn't a difference there on nice cans - just that the soundstage difference to me was more obvious over speakers. YMMV.  But I'd spend it as an easy extra $100.  Personally, I'm skeptical my system could/would reveal much more if I put in a much more expensive DAC, but maybe I'm just trying to rationalize not spending more money any time soon,


----------



## Ryno1330

Well I just decided to go all in and ordered the Bifrost 2 instead of the Modius. I'm sure they're both great but buy once cry once, right? 
I sent a message to Schiit but in the mean time if anyone here has suggestions I was using the mini-usb in on my modi 3 but the Bifrost 2 doesn't have that. What's the best option to go in from my dap (has a usb-c out)?  I see there's coax, usb, optical  in but I don't have any idea if they sound different and I haven't looked into the availability of cables yet. Thanks.


----------



## Neweymatt

Ryno1330 said:


> Well I just decided to go all in and ordered the Bifrost 2 instead of the Modius. I'm sure they're both great but buy once cry once, right?
> I sent a message to Schiit but in the mean time if anyone here has suggestions I was using the mini-usb in on my modi 3 but the Bifrost 2 doesn't have that. What's the best option to go in from my dap (has a usb-c out)?  I see there's coax, usb, optical  in but I don't have any idea if they sound different and I haven't looked into the availability of cables yet. Thanks.


Well played on the BF2.  I debated with myself over this same choice for weeks before deciding to just dive in and get the Bifrost, no reason to die wondering, eh.  Maybe I'll get a Modius once I've got a few more HP's and test it out vs the BF2, don't think there is much to lose on resale value on either..

As far as cables etc, you've probably read up on Schiit's UnisonUSB, a selling point for the BF2 and Modius both.  I don't have much to compare to, but so far it sounds damn good to me.  Others might chime in on the merits/faults of SPDIF, Toslink etc, but USB is probably all you really need for now..

I bought Shciit's PYST USB A-B cable to run form my MacBook Pro into the BF2, as I already had a few USB C-A dongles.  Can also use it with other sources, like iPhone or iPad with the Camera Connection Kit.

You could probably get a USB C-B cable like this one from Audioquest, to use your DAP as a source for the BF2.
https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/usb-b-to-usb-c/usb-b-to-c-forest

Happy listening!


----------



## Ryno1330

Neweymatt said:


> Well played on the BF2.  I debated with myself over this same choice for weeks before deciding to just dive in and get the Bifrost, no reason to die wondering, eh.  Maybe I'll get a Modius once I've got a few more HP's and test it out vs the BF2, don't think there is much to lose on resale value on either..
> 
> As far as cables etc, you've probably read up on Schiit's UnisonUSB, a selling point for the BF2 and Modius both.  I don't have much to compare to, but so far it sounds damn good to me.  Others might chime in on the merits/faults of SPDIF, Toslink etc, but USB is probably all you really need for now..
> 
> ...


Super helpful - thanks!


----------



## Ryno1330

Hey all do any of you with a Bifrost use a usb-c to usb-a cord to run either a dap or phone into it?

I ask because I was really excited to get it and haven't been able to use it as I don't get any sound connected that way.  I can tell they aren't communicating because my DAP recognizes when it's hooked up to a DAC. 

I have an email in to Schiit but in the meantime I'm trying to figure out how to hook it to my computer to see if it's possibly the new cord.


----------



## jnak00

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey all do any of you with a Bifrost use a usb-c to usb-a cord to run either a dap or phone into it?
> 
> I ask because I was really excited to get it and haven't been able to use it as I don't get any sound connected that way.  I can tell they aren't communicating because my DAP recognizes when it's hooked up to a DAC.
> 
> I have an email in to Schiit but in the meantime I'm trying to figure out how to hook it to my computer to see if it's possibly the new cord.



Yes, I do that with my Bifrost 2. Phone is Pixel 4XL. It works well.


----------



## Ryno1330

jnak00 said:


> Yes, I do that with my Bifrost 2. Phone is Pixel 4XL. It works well.


Thanks. Just to confirm which selection is the usb on the 3 leds on the front? I've tried them all multiple times but just want to confirm.


----------



## TS0711

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey all do any of you with a Bifrost use a usb-c to usb-a cord to run either a dap or phone into it?
> 
> I ask because I was really excited to get it and haven't been able to use it as I don't get any sound connected that way.  I can tell they aren't communicating because my DAP recognizes when it's hooked up to a DAC.
> 
> I have an email in to Schiit but in the meantime I'm trying to figure out how to hook it to my computer to see if it's possibly the new cord.


Here's how I do it... usb-c to rca with an xDuoo DAP

https://shop.musicteck.com/products...XUy-6tJzBzvzte5Es2zJq1sTVycMc2qRoClTUQAvD_BwE


----------



## jnak00

Ryno1330 said:


> Thanks. Just to confirm which selection is the usb on the 3 leds on the front? I've tried them all multiple times but just want to confirm.



Left LED is USB. Middle is optical and right is Coax.


----------



## Ryno1330

TS0711 said:


> Here's how I do it... usb-c to rca with an xDuoo DAP
> 
> https://shop.musicteck.com/products...XUy-6tJzBzvzte5Es2zJq1sTVycMc2qRoClTUQAvD_BwE


Thanks - unless the Schiit guys have other thoughts I'll try this.


----------



## tafens

Ryno1330 said:


> Hey all do any of you with a Bifrost use a usb-c to usb-a cord to run either a dap or phone into it?
> 
> I ask because I was really excited to get it and haven't been able to use it as I don't get any sound connected that way.  I can tell they aren't communicating because my DAP recognizes when it's hooked up to a DAC.
> 
> I have an email in to Schiit but in the meantime I'm trying to figure out how to hook it to my computer to see if it's possibly the new cord.



What kind of USB-C to A cable are you using?

For iPhone you would need the Lightning to USB camera adapter, and for Android an USB OTG (“on the go”) cable. This is needed for the phone to become a USB “master” device that it needs to be to connect to a DAC to play sound (or camera to get pictures/etc).

I have an iPhone with the Lightning to USB camera adapter cable and it works great with the Bifrost2, but won’t work with DACs drawing too much power through the USB connection (the phone will complain with a “draws too much power” message in that case).


----------



## GearMe

tafens said:


> What kind of USB-C to A cable are you using?
> 
> For iPhone you would need the Lightning to USB camera adapter, and for Android an USB OTG (“on the go”) cable. This is needed for the phone to become a USB “master” device that it needs to be to connect to a DAC to play sound (or camera to get pictures/etc).
> 
> I have an iPhone with the Lightning to USB camera adapter cable and it works great with the Bifrost2, but won’t work with DACs drawing too much power through the USB connection (the phone will complain with a “draws too much power” message in that case).


Yep...I have the Android USB OTG setup and it works fine as well.


----------



## Ryno1330

tafens said:


> What kind of USB-C to A cable are you using?
> 
> For iPhone you would need the Lightning to USB camera adapter, and for Android an USB OTG (“on the go”) cable. This is needed for the phone to become a USB “master” device that it needs to be to connect to a DAC to play sound (or camera to get pictures/etc).
> 
> I have an iPhone with the Lightning to USB camera adapter cable and it works great with the Bifrost2, but won’t work with DACs drawing too much power through the USB connection (the phone will complain with a “draws too much power” message in that case).


This one. It's made for audio use so I thought it should work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CPGMLHX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_VO5VFbDXDH4EG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## tafens (Nov 26, 2020)

Ryno1330 said:


> This one. It's made for audio use so I thought it should work.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CPGMLHX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_VO5VFbDXDH4EG?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1



That seems like a standard USB cable for connecting a computer to a device. I’m no expert on things Android, but I think this one’ll work:

https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapt...&keywords=usb+on+the+go&qid=1606392934&sr=8-5

or this one (usb-c):
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-JSAU...FhUl4VwMzbE4fw/w==&smid=A20J3ITGSOMSJG&sr=8-3

Perhaps @GearMe can correct me if I’m wrong

Edit: You’ll also need another cable from the otg cable’s USB-A connector to the dac.
Edit: Added another link to otg sub-cable.


----------



## jnak00

I use this cable:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B072FNQLFC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Ryno1330

tafens said:


> That seems like a standard USB cable for connecting a computer to a device. I’m no expert on things Android, but I think this one’ll work:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapt...&keywords=usb+on+the+go&qid=1606392934&sr=8-5
> 
> ...


Thanks! And I messed up - it's not usb-a, it's usb-b on the other end (goes directly into the Bifrost 2). My mistake. It's a 2.0 cable so it should work. I ordered some of these suggested cables though and will see Monday if it's a cable issue or Bifrost issue.


----------



## Ryno1330

Sorry to beat this to death but I'm pretty dang disappointed in Schiit at this point. When I decided to order the Bifrost 2 as an upgrade to my Schiit stack I sent an email to them asking what cable I'd need to connect my DAP (sony xz507) with usb-c to the Bifrost. My responses came from Jason S - who I can only assume is the owner, but maybe am wrong.

His answer was a usb-c to usb-a cable, when it was supposed to be usb-b. After straightening that out and getting my Bifrost and not being able to use with the recommened cable I've reached out to them and since someone there named Daniel has told me I need an OTG adapter now. So extra parts and the wrong answer from customer service. Plus I just want to hear the dang thing and haven't been able to.

Anyway, just venting but I'm guessing they're best suited selling their Schiit stacks and leaving higher end stuff and customer service with companies that can handle it.


----------



## Acapella48

Your Sony has a USB type-C connection correct?  Seems Daniel gave you the correct info.  USB A-B cable would not work with a Type-C port.  It’s a good idea to consult the guides page On Schiit’s website.

Schiit does need to do some website cleanup though.  There are broken links and links that reference the wrong product.  I’ve tried pointing this out to both Jason and Denise but so far, the broken links and mis-direction haven’t been addressed.

Schitt has been involved in opening a new facility in Texas, it‘s a holiday weekend and don’t forget we’re in the middle of a pandemic, so a little patience is in order.


----------



## Ryno1330 (Nov 28, 2020)

Acapella48 said:


> Your Sony has a USB type-C connection correct?  Seems Daniel gave you the correct info.  USB A-B cable would not work with a Type-C port.  It’s a good idea to consult the guides page On Schiit’s website.
> 
> Schiit does need to do some website cleanup though.  There are broken links and links that reference the wrong product.  I’ve tried pointing this out to both Jason and Denise but so far, the broken links and mis-direction haven’t been addressed.
> 
> Schitt has been involved in opening a new facility in Texas, it‘s a holiday weekend and don’t forget we’re in the middle of a pandemic, so a little patience is in order.


Right, but you're missing the point. Jason admitted the Usb-c to usb-a was a typo (no big deal) but the problem is that the usb-c to usb-b doesn't work either. The manual doesn't state this and when I pre-emptivevly wanted to order cables so I could acrually use my new equipment I emailed them for which cables to buy. Which was apparently not accurate in the first place.

It's buried somewhere else in the website and not that easy to understand. For example, it reads that the android devices can't supply enough power to power the dac. When the dac has it's own power supply why does it need additional power. My modi 3 didn't.


----------



## jnak00

Ryno1330 said:


> Sorry to beat this to death but I'm pretty dang disappointed in Schiit at this point. When I decided to order the Bifrost 2 as an upgrade to my Schiit stack I sent an email to them asking what cable I'd need to connect my DAP (sony xz507) with usb-c to the Bifrost. My responses came from Jason S - who I can only assume is the owner, but maybe am wrong.
> 
> His answer was a usb-c to usb-a cable, when it was supposed to be usb-b. After straightening that out and getting my Bifrost and not being able to use with the recommened cable I've reached out to them and since someone there named Daniel has told me I need an OTG adapter now. So extra parts and the wrong answer from customer service. Plus I just want to hear the dang thing and haven't been able to.
> 
> Anyway, just venting but I'm guessing they're best suited selling their Schiit stacks and leaving higher end stuff and customer service with companies that can handle it.



I suspect Jason was referring to a USB C to USB A female adapter. That would also work if you already had a USB B cable.


----------



## Acapella48

Ryno1330 said:


> Right, but you're missing the point. Jason admitted the Usb-c to usb-a was a typo (no big deal) but the problem is that the usb-c to usb-b doesn't work either. The manual doesn't state this and when I pre-emptivevly wanted to order cables so I could acrually use my new equipment I emailed them for which cables to buy. Which was apparently not accurate in the first place.
> 
> It's buried somewhere else in the website and not that easy to understand. For example, it reads that the android devices can't supply enough power to power the dac. When the dac has it's own power supply why does it need additional power. My modi 3 didn't.




Basically, you need a cable that has USB B to C connector.

The BF2 has a male Type-B connector and your Sony has a Type-C, so an A-B cable would only work with an adapter.

You are using the Sony as a source, the cable is for the source signal (music) not power.  BF2 is getting it’s power from your AC wall socket.


----------



## Ryno1330

jnak00 said:


> I use this cable:
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B072FNQLFC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Just to clarify, do you use this directly from a phone or DAP into the Bifrost?

As an update after troubleshooting it seems I got a defective unit. I used an OTG adapter and usb cable Schiit recommended and still nothing. I'm sending it back. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## jnak00

Ryno1330 said:


> Just to clarify, do you use this directly from a phone or DAP into the Bifrost?
> 
> As an update after troubleshooting it seems I got a defective unit. I used an OTG adapter and usb cable Schiit recommended and still nothing. I'm sending it back. Thanks for the suggestions.



Yes, I plug this directly into the Bifrost and into my phone, and it works fine.  It also works from my Surface.


----------



## inmytaxi

Ryno1330 said:


> Hi friends. New Schiit convert here. I love my Heresy/Modi setup but am going to move it to another room and make a small change to my main listening spot. I've heard the Asgard 3 is a touch warmer which is what I want for that situation.
> 
> My question is will someone that isn't deep in the game of multiple setups and headphones and ultra critical listening appreciate much of a difference between the Modius and the Bifrost 2?
> 
> Thanks for any opinions!


I can hear the difference between the Modius and the Modi Multibit, both single ended. Modius may be better with xlr, but will still have a more clinical sound and less musical, based on my brief listen.


----------



## Ryno1330

inmytaxi said:


> I can hear the difference between the Modius and the Modi Multibit, both single ended. Modius may be better with xlr, but will still have a more clinical sound and less musical, based on my brief listen.


Thanks. I actually just ordered a Bifrost 2 after deciding to go with it instead of the Modius. Unfortunately it didn't work so it's going back and now I'm not sure what I'm going with.


----------



## Acapella48

Ryno1330 said:


> Thanks. I actually just ordered a Bifrost 2 after deciding to go with it instead of the Modius. Unfortunately it didn't work so it's going back and now I'm not sure what I'm going with.



Could you explain by what you mean by "unfortunately it didn't work ..."  Was there something wrong with the BF2 like it being defective or the BF2 just didn't meet your needs.

It's not clear whether you're referring to the BF2 or the Modius.


----------



## Ryno1330

Acapella48 said:


> Could you explain by what you mean by "unfortunately it didn't work ..."  Was there something wrong with the BF2 like it being defective or the BF2 just didn't meet your needs.
> 
> It's not clear whether you're referring to the BF2 or the Modius.


I thought the language was clear as I ordered the Bifrost and therefore it didn't work.
Anyway the USB input didn't work so I haven't been able to evaluate the sound quality. I'm not going to try another one as I believe a product of that level should be tested and work upon arrival.


----------



## jnak00

Ryno1330 said:


> I thought the language was clear as I ordered the Bifrost and therefore it didn't work.
> Anyway the USB input didn't work so I haven't been able to evaluate the sound quality. I'm not going to try another one as I believe a product of that level should be tested and work upon arrival.



I am sure they are all tested before being packaged. It could have been a bump during shipping that caused the usb to not work. I get that's it's inconvenient and disappointing to have to send it back, but no company has a zero per cent failure rate. What really sets the good companies apart is how they deal with those hopefully rare failures.


----------



## Ryno1330

jnak00 said:


> I am sure they are all tested before being packaged. It could have been a bump during shipping that caused the usb to not work. I get that's it's inconvenient and disappointing to have to send it back, but no company has a zero per cent failure rate. What really sets the good companies apart is how they deal with those hopefully rare failures.


Oh I definitely appreciate no one does. I just haven't ever had any electronics of value in my life not work upon arrival and so I'm not likely to give a second chance. Yeah I'm cynical and bitter as I get older


----------



## artur9

Ryno1330 said:


> Oh I definitely appreciate no one does. I just haven't ever had any electronics of value in my life not work upon arrival and so I'm not likely to give a second chance. Yeah I'm cynical and bitter as I get older


That's a shame as Schiit really does go above and beyond.  

My Asgard 3 with MB card sounds great to me, if you're looking to try something else.  Currently using them for headphones.  Futures plans to use as DAC/preamp.


----------



## Acapella48

Ryno1330 said:


> Oh I definitely appreciate no one does. I just haven't ever had any electronics of value in my life not work upon arrival and so I'm not likely to give a second chance. Yeah I'm cynical and bitter as I get older



Seems like Schiit would have offered to replace the unit as possibly being defective as long as you were willing to allow them to send you a replacement.  After all, Bifrost comes with up to 5 years of warranty.

Having said that, I think I have a bad Bifrost unit myself and have turned down submitting a service request for the time being (Schiit suggested I might want to complete one) but I'm persistent in trying to resolve the problem that I'm having.  I don't use a DAP.  I'm connecting the BF2 directly to my Windows 10 PC using a USB A-B cable.  It's quirky and causes Windows 10 to halt (not load).  Because of this, I cannot use any motherboard USB port.  Either my ASUS motherboard's USB protocol implementation is fussy or the BF2 is defective.

Schiit suggested I try another USB cable but if it were the cable, it wouldn't work some times and not work other times.  Besides, the cable is brand new.  

Anyway, I can use a USB port on my computer case *IF and Only IF*, I turn on the BF2 *BEFORE* I turn on my PC.  If I boot up my PC first and then turn on BF2, Windows will display this message:

" _*T*_*he last USB device you connected to this computer malfunctioned, and Windows does not recognize it *"  

The default Windows 10 USB driver (yes, it's the current driver) will not load, in which case, I have to reboot.  It's weird.  Never seen anything like it and I've built and configured computers for over 20 years.  

You're probably thinking its a bad USB port.  It is not usual for all 7 USB ports (5 on mother board and 2 on computer case) to all fail at the same time.  If they were bad, I would be able to see that in Windows Device Manager or by running a diagnostic test on the hardware.

So for now, I just turn on the BF2 first and Windows 10 seems happy - but every now and again Windows will say the BF2 has malfunctioned.


----------



## artur9

Acapella48 said:


> So for now, I just turn on the BF2 first and Windows 10 seems happy - but every now and again Windows will say the BF2 has malfunctioned.


In an ideal world you could send the whole computer to Schiit and let them use it to debug their Unison firmware.

Have you tried putting a USB hub between your computer and the BF2?


----------



## Acapella48 (Dec 7, 2020)

artur9 said:


> Have you tried putting a USB hub between your computer and the BF2?



Nah - Before settling on using the computer case USB ports, I tried a test using a laptop running Windows 7, just to rule out Windows halting and failing to load.  I booted up the laptop (connecting the BF2 and the same USB cable) using just the laptop’s battery to also rule out a problem that someone suggested it might be the computer’s PSU.  The laptop booted up just fine without a problem.  I haven’t noticed any PSU related problems with the other PC and it’s been a month since I’ve had the BF2.  Computer runs fine as long as I power up the BF2 first.

Next test will be on a new Windows 10 PC I’m currently building.  If BF2 behaves the same way, i will open a service request and send it back to Schiit.  It could also be related to Windows10.  I’ve come across online reports in Microsoft communities and forums reporting similar behavior going back several years.

I also opened a service request with Microsoft but they weren’t much help, which doesn’t surprise me.
Even if you’re a business Enterprise paying for Microsoft Premier Support, Microsoft doesn’t always own-up to problems with their OS and their updates have been known to cause applications to stop working or behave erratically.  Unfortunately, that’s the nature of the beast.  You can’t test all hardware/software configurations under every scenario.  Sometimes things break.

Addendum:

The question of using a USB hub has come up before, so I think it's a good idea to clarify just exactly what a USB port does.

Your typical garden-variety USB port based on the specification for USB 1.0 or 2.0 delivers up to 500 milliampere (mA) or about 2.5 watts.  A USB 3.0 port can deliver up to 900mA or about 4.5 watts.

A USB hub essentially provides additional USB ports.  That's basically it.  
You could use the analogy of a power strip plugged into a duplex wall socket.  All the power strip does is provide additional sockets to plug more stuff into.

The end result is the same.  If the port the hub is plugged into is bad, what good is the USB hub?   Same goes for the power strip and duplex wall socket.

The Bifrost 2 is pulling 12 watts via it's own AC power cord.  It's not dependent on the USB port for power.  Besides, depending on the USB port in use, it maxes out at 4.5 watts.  

The purpose of the USB cable is to provide data transfer (data packets) from whatever it's connected to (in my case my computer) to the BF2. 

The data in question is an audio stream (MP3, FLAK, AAC, DSD, etc.) stored on your computer's HDD or via an Internet connection to music on YouTube, Qobuz, Tidal, etc.


----------



## tamleo

tafens said:


> The Lyr3 is ready to go in just under two minutes I think. It has a bit longer delay than the Asgard3 to allow for the tube to warm up and stabilise before the muting relay clicks in. I have started listening directly after power-on on both the Lyr3 and Asgard3 and they both sound great without any special warmup time.
> 
> That said, it is generally considered good to let amps (and dacs) warm up to their thermal equilibrium to sound their very best, and that goes for both tube gear and solid state alike. Therefore I usually turn my equipment on about half an hour to an hour before I know I’m going to listen and let it sit while I do other things I need to do. But, if for some reason I don’t turn it on beforehand, no worries, it sounds great anyway.


Hi. Can you comment on the soundstage width of the two amps? Tks


----------



## tafens

tamleo said:


> Hi. Can you comment on the soundstage width of the two amps? Tks



To my ears, with my equipment, (Bifrost2 DAC, HD6XX headphones and a reissue Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube in the Lyr3) the Lyr3 comes across as having a wider (and deeper) soundstage as well as being more engaging and dynamic.


----------



## JamminVMI

tafens said:


> To my ears, with my equipment, (Bifrost2 DAC, HD6XX headphones and a reissue Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB tube in the Lyr3) the Lyr3 comes across as having a wider (and deeper) soundstage as well as being more engaging and dynamic.


Have both and agree completely, though I’m using a different tube, an NOS Baldwin/Sylvania


----------



## MegaMushroom

Going strong 4 years with my Magni/Modi 2 Ubers.  But perhaps it is time I upgrade to a Valhalla.  See what all this tube stuff is about.


----------



## hollandstein

Anyone used Gold Lion 6922 in the Valhalla 2?


----------



## Ryno1330

Anyone know of there are issues at Schiit/what's going on there? 

I sent back a defective Bifrost 2 about a month ago and haven't heard anything. Sent an email to customer service last week to check on it and still nothing.


----------



## Voxata

They are struggling atm it would seem, as all businesses are. Give them a bit of time.


----------



## inmytaxi

I'm waiting patiently on my return for what in hindsight feels like a real dumb reason. I'm giving local outfits a great deal of leeway given the problems faced due to covid, government restrictions, etc. I look at how they conduct themselves in the market and feel like the savings built into each sale buys them some trust.  I get other people feel differently. My 2 c.


----------



## Ryno1330

inmytaxi said:


> I'm waiting patiently on my return for what in hindsight feels like a real dumb reason. I'm giving local outfits a great deal of leeway given the problems faced due to covid, government restrictions, etc. I look at how they conduct themselves in the market and feel like the savings built into each sale buys them some trust.  I get other people feel differently. My 2 c.


How long have you been waiting? I'm not that upset and I'm a business owner myself with my own covid stresses so I get it. I just wanted an aknowledgment they are processing, or a response to email. I'll probably just try to get a refund and purchase some day when things are going better.


----------



## JohnnyOps

Ryno1330 said:


> How long have you been waiting? I'm not that upset and I'm a business owner myself with my own covid stresses so I get it. I just wanted an aknowledgment they are processing, or a response to email. I'll probably just try to get a refund and purchase some day when things are going better.


Read the 2nd to last post Jason Stoddard put up for context:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...most-improbable-start-up.701900/post-16102543


----------



## inmytaxi

I returned one a month ago, for two small reasons, but now i'm back in the queue. it was supposed to ship today but it's delayed two weeks. i suprised they didn't get back to you, but they're in the middle of a major reorganization, so don't be afraid to follow-up with a nice reminder.  They should be able to get back to you within a week at the most imo. Their main repair guy is in sick so Jason is fixing amps and another guy is fixing dacs. If you read the story Jason writes it's in the snafu chapter.


----------



## GumbyDammit223

Ryno1330 said:


> How long have you been waiting? I'm not that upset and I'm a business owner myself with my own covid stresses so I get it. I just wanted an acknowledgment they are processing, or a response to email. I'll probably just try to get a refund and purchase some day when things are going better.



They are backordered quite heavily regarding new BF2 orders which means there are most likely parts shortages.  Your BF2 probably needs replacement parts that are currently backordered just like new orders.  Email them and ask for status.  Unless schiit has really hit the fan, they should give you an update pretty quickly.


----------



## ssmith3046

Sounds like Jason and the crew are buried in Schiit up to their necks. I've bought quite of bit of Schiit and love their products and customer service.


----------



## Malevolent

GumbyDammit223 said:


> They are backordered quite heavily regarding new BF2 orders which means there are most likely parts shortages.  Your BF2 probably needs replacement parts that are currently backordered just like new orders.  Email them and ask for status.  Unless schiit has really hit the fan, they should give you an update pretty quickly.


Yeah. They are probably swamped with orders. Looking at the individual pages, you can see that the following products are backordered -

Freya+
Loki
Lyr 3
Magni Heresy
Magnius
Modius
Ragnarok 2
Sol
Vali 2+
Yggdrasil
The Bifrost 2 is not backordered _per se_, but new units will be shipped within 7-10 working days. That's better news than a lot of their other stuff - the Yggdrasil, for example, is backordered until mid-March; the Sol, end of April.

Business is brisk for the folks at Schiit.


----------



## bagwell359

Malevolent said:


> Yeah. They are probably swamped with orders. Looking at the individual pages, you can see that the following products are backordered -
> 
> Freya+
> Loki
> ...


They seem to have recovered well since these last few posts with new products and short wait times on updates.

Celebrating my 7th Anniversary of getting my Ragnarok 1 and Gungnir MB - and no plans to change, although I will update the Gumby from Gen5 this Spring.


----------



## Buddy Shagmore

I have had a (silver) Lokius in my main hi-fi system for almost a year. No problems, and it is the secret sauce that completed my setup. But now...wouldn't you know?...I have a head-fi jones! Like the rest of you. So yesterday I ordered a Bifrost 2, Jotunheim and another Lokius, all in black this time. They messaged me to pick it all up it the Schiitr store this afternoon. Hoping it is smooth sailing here on out.


----------



## Buddy Shagmore (Jan 6, 2023)

At the Schiitr. A cool hang, no question. My order was due in at 2PM. I got there a little early and did some listening in the HeadFi room, and in the hifi room. Here Ape and a customer are enjoying.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Buddy Shagmore said:


> At the Schiitr. A cool hang, no question. My order was due in at 2PM. I got there a little early and did some listening in the HeadFi room, and in the hifi room. Here Ape and a customer are enjoying.


We need LCD-R2... this time not limited to 67 units


----------



## Paladin79

hollandstein said:


> Anyone used Gold Lion 6922 in the Valhalla 2?


I did some time ago and it was not among my favorites as I recall.


----------



## Mike-WI

Buddy Shagmore said:


> At the Schiitr. A cool hang, no question. My order was due in at 2PM. I got there a little early and did some listening in the HeadFi room, and in the hifi room. Here Ape and a customer are enjoying.



Did they sell the Schiit rug?


----------



## jfox8

Really cool, maybe one day I'll be able to make the pilgrimage. I've always wondered what the really high dollar Schiit sounds like.


----------



## loki993 (Yesterday at 12:24 PM)

Bunch of questions coming, sorry been holding them back for a while.

I currently run a Magni 3+ with a Modi Multibit. Used to run an Eitr too but the USB chip went out in it for the second time and I didn't want to send it back for a repair to Schiit for a second time. Plus Ive always thought I would upgrade the stack eventually anyway. My main headphones are Senn HD6xxs.

I always come to the Asgard and the Jot. Can someone, if you can, sort of describe the difference between the two amps and is the Jot worth the extra 150 bucks. Especially when taking into consideration the HD6xxs.

Also would the Jot be worth it even if I had no desire to run balanced?

How are the DACs that come in it?

It would be nice to have a one box solution but also the MM is really good, but doesn't have Unison USB, so I need to run some sort of decrapifier, so another box if I kept the MM in the chain. Also that mean Ill either need to send the Eitr back a second time to get fixed and hope the USB doesn't go again, of which I little confidence in since this is the second time its went out, there's gotta be something else wrong with it we aren't finding. OR I need to find another USB solution.

I know about the MM2 but Ive also heard it sounds nothing like the original and Im afraid I wont like it, So I dont really want to spend the 300 bucks on it unless Im sure. Also....its 300 bucks. I could probably find an old Multibit BF1 for that or less...Also Schiit appears to be selling multibit cards separately from the as/jot but for some reason aren't selling asgards or jots with them installed. 

I am not 100 percent against D/S and even have a slight curiosity of how good D/S implementation sounds.

How is the multibit card in the Jot? Id heard they weren't as good as the MM when they first came out but Im sure they have been revisions made to it.

So sorry I know lots to unpack, but again Ive been mulling this for a while waiting for updates to the line and I think this is the right time.


----------



## Neweymatt

loki993 said:


> I always come to the Asgard and the Jot. Can someone, if you can, sort of describe the difference between the two amps and is the Jot worth the extra 150 bucks. Especially when taking into consideration the HD6xxs.


I can't say for the HD6xxs specifically, but for me the Jot2 was absolutely worth it as an upgrade from the A3...


loki993 said:


> Also would the Jot be worth it even if I had no desire to run balanced?


...because it has the balanced option.  If you are 100% sure you'll never used balanced, then just get the A3.  Bass is much tighter with more impact, and the improvement in dynamic range with Jot2 balanced is noticeable to varying degrees with just about all of my headphones and IEMs, those with planar or dynamic drivers in particular.  It's just a bigger overall sound that is that much easier to get immersed in.


loki993 said:


> How are the DACs that come in it?


I have the ESS DAC in my A3 and I think it's pretty good for a $100 upgrade that gives me a simple one-box solution I can deploy at different spots around the house away from my main desk setup, or take with me on a holiday.  


loki993 said:


> I know about the MM2 but Ive also heard it sounds nothing like the original and Im afraid I wont like it, So I dont really want to spend the 300 bucks on it unless Im sure. Also....its 300 bucks. I could probably find an old Multibit BF1 for that or less...Also Schiit appears to be selling multibit cards separately from the as/jot but for some reason aren't selling asgards or jots with them installed.


You're in the US right? You can always take advantage of Schiit's 15-day money back guarantee, and trial the MM2 with no real risk.  I think if you order an A3 or Jot2 with the card at the same time Schiit will install it for you.


----------



## loki993

Neweymatt said:


> ...because it has the balanced option.  If you are 100% sure you'll never used balanced, then just get the A3.  Bass is much tighter with more impact, and the improvement in dynamic range with Jot2 balanced is noticeable to varying degrees with just about all of my headphones and IEMs, those with planar or dynamic drivers in particular.  It's just a bigger overall sound that is that much easier to get immersed in.



I am not 100 percent sure I would stay single ended, its just a cable swap for the Senns, but more money and another rabbit hole that I dont know that im totally interested in. 


How about another slightly related question.....how many people use Eitrs and how many people have had issues when them? I still think about the possibility of sending mine back again but the fact that its tossed 2 USB chips now makes me suspect there is some other issue with it and I don't know if its something that can be tested for.


----------



## Neweymatt

loki993 said:


> I am not 100 percent sure I would stay single ended, its just a cable swap for the Senns, but more money and another rabbit hole that I dont know that im totally interested in.


Lol, that's what I used to think which is why I bought the A3 as my first amp.  Plus which at the time Jot2 hadn't yet been released, and I thought the older Jot1 was due for a refresh..

tbh, I reckon balanced is worth pursuing.  I finally got around to getting a balanced cable for my 64Audio A12t the other day, and I was surprised how much difference it makes with both the Jot2 and my HiBy RS6 DAP.  That much closer to end-game I guess...


----------



## Sinister Whisperz

I'm a Schiit head! I currently have the Fulla E and will be adding at least a Vali2++ this year.


----------



## artur9

Neweymatt said:


> tbh, I reckon balanced is worth pursuing.


Balanced makes a huge difference (to me) in my HT setup.  How quantifiable of a difference does it make with headphones?

I'm thinking, personally, my MagPi and an MM2 are probably going to be where I end up.  My MagPi sounds amazing with my Gumby but that's not really a practical set up -- gumby takes up 1/4 of my (small) desk!


----------



## carbonF1

loki993 said:


> Bunch of questions coming, sorry been holding them back for a while.
> 
> I currently run a Magni 3+ with a Modi Multibit. Used to run an Eitr too but the USB chip went out in it for the second time and I didn't want to send it back for a repair to Schiit for a second time. Plus Ive always thought I would upgrade the stack eventually anyway. My main headphones are Senn HD6xxs.
> 
> ...



I am not so sure the Asgard 3 would be an upgrade with only HD6XX. I've tried the pairing a few times and it hasn't stuck with me. Between Sundara and HD6XX I prefer the Sundara by a lot on this amp. Synergy with 6XX isn't there for me.

Jotunheim 2 is fully balanced so running it SE I believe you're only using half the circuit. A decent XLR cable for the 6XX is like $50? I'd just add it in as part of the upgrade if you go this route. It probably isn't worth getting just to run it single ended only.

Can't comment on the multibit card, but if you were looking at the 9028 internal card its not too shabby. I don't like ESS dacs but in the Modi it's not the worst thing in the world (and I mean that as a big compliment). USB 9028 card is roughly equal to Modi 3E USB performance in my opinion, but external dacs have the advantage of additional inputs. The tradeoff of a smaller footprint I don't think is as big as it used to be.


----------



## loki993

carbonF1 said:


> I am not so sure the Asgard 3 would be an upgrade with only HD6XX. I've tried the pairing a few times and it hasn't stuck with me. Between Sundara and HD6XX I prefer the Sundara by a lot on this amp. Synergy with 6XX isn't there for me.
> 
> Jotunheim 2 is fully balanced so running it SE I believe you're only using half the circuit. A decent XLR cable for the 6XX is like $50? I'd just add it in as part of the upgrade if you go this route. It probably isn't worth getting just to run it single ended only.
> 
> Can't comment on the multibit card, but if you were looking at the 9028 internal card its not too shabby. I don't like ESS dacs but in the Modi it's not the worst thing in the world (and I mean that as a big compliment). USB 9028 card is roughly equal to Modi 3E USB performance in my opinion, but external dacs have the advantage of additional inputs. The tradeoff of a smaller footprint I don't think is as big as it used to be.



But if I went balanced the jot would be an upgrade with the senns?

I don't think I'd get a modi 3e, I would just stick with the modi multibit at that point. Which I like quite a lot. I was hoping the mm2 was an improvement over it plus unison but it seems it's more different than better.


----------



## theveterans

Neweymatt said:


> Lol, that's what I used to think which is why I bought the A3 as my first amp.  Plus which at the time Jot2 hadn't yet been released, and I thought the older Jot1 was due for a refresh..
> 
> tbh, I reckon balanced is worth pursuing.  I finally got around to getting a balanced cable for my 64Audio A12t the other day, and I was surprised how much difference it makes with both the Jot2 and my HiBy RS6 DAP.  That much closer to end-game I guess...



Jot 2 is one of those amps that have very noticeable differences in SE and Balanced output due to different discrete topology between the two. On op-amp based amps with gazillion amount of feedback, the difference is negligible between SE and Balanced


----------



## JamminVMI (Yesterday at 11:12 PM)

loki993 said:


> Bunch of questions coming, sorry been holding them back for a while.
> 
> I currently run a Magni 3+ with a Modi Multibit. Used to run an Eitr too but the USB chip went out in it for the second time and I didn't want to send it back for a repair to Schiit for a second time. Plus Ive always thought I would upgrade the stack eventually anyway. My main headphones are Senn HD6xxs.
> 
> ...


Wow! Lots of juicy questions! My opinion only, but here goes…

1. If you’re running Senn 6s (in any flavour), consider Valhalla 2. Pretty much made for them. If solid state is your desire, go with Asgard. I prefer it to Jot 2, by a fair margin (I find Jot 2 too bright). As to internal DACs, unless you NEED a single box solution (some do), stick with separates. Better sound, more inputs. What you’re using today may not be what you use tomorrow.

Again, my opinion, hope it helps…


----------



## loki993 (Today at 12:45 AM)

Do you mean the older Valhalla 2 or the current Valhalla on the schiit site?

I've considered tubes and they have always intrigued me but I've avoided them up to this point due to the fact that I would end up going down another expensive rabbit hole, I couldn't help but to start tube rolling. Also they're a bit of a hassle that I don't know that I want to deal with.

That said I wouldn't completely rule them out. Here is the thing I like fast music, electronic, metal. I like a tight fun sound. I like lots of bass. I like,  it's tough to describe, but I call it musical which honestly may be two different sounds. Tubes to me I hear things like lush, syrupy, laid back. I don't know if I would like them.


----------

