# SMSL iDEA portable dac+amp



## Matias (Feb 8, 2019)

Topic to discuss all things about S.M.S.L iDEA portable DAC + headphone amp (85.99 usd), made by ShuangMuSanLin Electronics Company based in Shenzhen, China.

Official website:
http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=133

Measurements:
http://archimago.blogspot.com.br/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...orloo-zuperdac-s-and-smsl-idea-dac-amps.6293/

Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/SMSL-IDEA-SABRE9018Q2C-DSD512-Mini/dp/B06Y1WFT4W









SMSL iDEA Hifi portable usb DAC built-in high quality headphone amplifier, uses the latest advanced second generation XMOS USB Audio solution XCore200XU208, supports up to PCM 32bit/768kHz and Native DSD512(22.5792MHZ), which is very advanced in audio range.
Using ESS SABRE9018Q2C as DAC chip, ultra-high dynamic range and ultra-low THD+N DAC, with built-in high quality headphone amplifier.
Using ultra-low noise power supply LDO for the best performance.
Low phase noise and low clock jitter PLL from Silcon Labs.
Ultra-low power consuption design for most of mobile phones, compatible to work with headphone, amplifier and active speaker
Featured with function of volume control for DSD files which is the first model can achieve that in this field. Do not have to set volume in computer or phone, volume button in the set itself. Very convenient for users
High - precision four layer PCB, good condition of electrical performance, Independent current loop for digital and analog circuit without interference, that is priority for high perfermance of the set.

Specification:

3.5mm headphone jack output
Micro USB input jack
Dynamic range:121 dB
Distortion:0.0011%
SNR:108dNB
Quantization bit rate: 16bit,24bit,32bit,1bit
Sampling Frequency: 44.1kHz,48kHz,88.2kHz,96kHz
176.4kHz,192kHz,352.8kHz,384kHz,705.6kHz,768kHz
DSD64,DSD128,DSD256,DSD512
Headphone output power
32ohm:35.8mW(THD=0.1%)
64ohm:31.6mW(THD=0.1%)
Impedance range:16-300ohm
Size:60*16*6mm
Weight:9.4g
Accessories: short USB A-micro/Micro-Micro/Micro-type-c

Any impressions on sound quality?


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## Leonccyiu

I am interested in purchasing this DAC myself because of it's ability to accept sample rates up to 768khz and DSD512. While I do not own any music in either format, I have some 352.8khz and some DSD256, but in future I could try using HQplayer for DSD conversion or upconversion to 768khz.

I don't know if SMSL have any loaners in exchange for a review. Either way because of the low price and small size, I'll probably purchase one soon although since I don't own either dragonfly I wouldn't know how it compares.
A lot of my music is high res so if the filters are not tuned as well, it's not as much of a problem, and of course on a PC I can you upsampling filters.


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## Matias

@Leonccyiu I am not particularly impressed by the high sample rates of the unit but rather on the choice of ESS DAC+amp, regulator and clock. I am very interested on how it will sound. Low power consumption is also a big plus for using on the go.
I have mine on order and will post my findings ASAP.


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## Leonccyiu

Matias said:


> @Leonccyiu I am not particularly impressed by the high sample rates of the unit but rather on the choice of ESS DAC+amp, regulator and clock. I am very interested on how it will sound. Low power consumption is also a big plus for using on the go.
> I have mine on order and will post my findings ASAP.



Those are some exceptional sample rates that until recently, only expensive DAC's could handle, and the new micro-controller I believe makes it possible while still having low power consumption.

If you're interested in the choice of ESS DAC=amp, there are other options on the market such as the nextdrive spectra.
http://headfonics.com/2017/05/the-spectra-dacamp-by-nextdrive/

If you mainly listen to redbook, why not the dragonfly black? While the Es9010k2m is slightly older, it's also about the tuning.
There are so many cheaper options and smaller low power options if you don't require the sample rates of the smsl.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of the sound of the SMSL idea


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## niron

Now available on Massdrop for only $64.99. 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-idea-dac-amp


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## blse59

Just got one of these babys in. Loooove the sound so far. SMSL has drivers for this device here:

http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp

What advantages are there to installing this driver? On my Windows 10 machine it works fine without drivers...


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## DjBobby (Jun 23, 2017)

I have 3 of SMSL mini dacs: iDol+, X4 and iDEA.
iDol+ is complete waste of money, sounds thin, grainy and has narrow soundstage. X4 is much, much better although it costs only 2-3 bucks more. It is warmer, more natural and closer in sound to IDEA, although it doesn't support higher resolutions and DSD. iDEA is by far the best product. It sounds like a serious thing, almost comparable to it's big brother M8. The integrated phone amp might be a little bit weak, but is fine on the go with the portables. Once connected to a bigger headphone amp or to the active speakers, you will start appreciating the resolution and sound stage of this tiny dac. For the money it goes on massdrop, it's a real bargain.


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## blse59 (Jun 24, 2017)

blse59 said:


> Just got one of these babys in. Loooove the sound so far. SMSL has drivers for this device here:
> 
> http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp
> 
> What advantages are there to installing this driver? On my Windows 10 machine it works fine without drivers...


Ok, I answered my own question. Went ahead and installed the driver. It installs an icon in the system tray. Click on it and it tells you what the current sample rate is which is awesome. So if I play a 96khz file and the tray process shows it's playing in 96khz I can have some peace of mind. And in Foobar, if you have the ASIO plug-in installed, you can select the SMSL iDEA from the list. It's called 'USB DAC ASIO'. I would say this driver adds value. I would definitely recommend installing it.


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## dc655321

Just ordered one of these from Amazon. Hope it displays a darker (black!) background than the dragonfly black did for me.


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## Yogibear91

just got last one from Amazon UK stock for a bargain of 60 quid could not say no! really looking forward to trying it out! the reviews and specs even made me overlook buying the odac or dragonfly let's hope i made the right decision. 
I'll let you know what I think when it comes.
wait until zeos pantera reviews it then it will really disappear or double in price lol depending on what he says obviously.


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## navydragon

Just received one of these today, and am having problems connecting to my android devices. My LG V20 and Nvidia shield tablet. When connected and trying to play something, i get annoying static noise. Tried un plugging and re plugging several times, seems to hit and miss, can get it to work preperly sometimes without the static noise when i plug it in while music is playing.. Also same thing happens with USB Audio Player pro, static noise. Though through trial and error, if i choose ro upsample to highest rate possible in UAPP, seems to be working fine.


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## Matias (Jul 8, 2017)

Got mine today. Using it on a desktop PC running Windows 10 with Creator's Update. I am running the Idea with Microsoft's native USB Audio 2.0 drivers. That is, I just plugged the Idea in, Windows set it up automatically, and in control panel - audio device properties - advanced I set it to max 32 bit 384000Hz. Working great so far. JRiver MC worked converting PCM to up to DSDx2 on DoP. I probably could go higher rates with drivers but honestly I don't want to bother.

Sound quality? First impression: fantastic!  Clean and clear driving my Audeze LCD-XC up to deafening loud levels (1s for testing only). This is for fun only, main use will be with IEMs. Of course not on par with the big rig but still very good.
Will listen to it for more hours before giving a more in depth opinion.


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## wwyjoe

Got one of these too, and prefer it over Dragonfly Red. i find the iDea has a more enjoyable sound than the DFR, and also dead silent (no hiss) with my Noble Audio Encore customs. The diminutive size is also another plus and the price.. amazing value!

The only downside is the buzzing noise as reported here.


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## Matias (Jul 8, 2017)

Same issue with Android (Moto X Style). Buzzing sound. If I open an app say YouTube and play the song and then unplug and replug the device then sound comes out but low volume using Xiaomi Piston 3, even max at Android and idea. Annoying.

I am going to use mostly with my notebook but still would have been nice to have it working on Android.


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## beowulf

wwyjoe said:


> Got one of these too, and prefer it over Dragonfly Red. i find the iDea has a more enjoyable sound than the DFR, and also dead silent (no hiss) with my Noble Audio Encore customs. The diminutive size is also another plus and the price.. amazing value!
> 
> The only downside is the buzzing noise as reported here.



That definitely makes me skip them for use with the Andromeda. I need something small and simple (cheap preferably) to connect to a laptop that tends to be noisy, just to power the Andromeda. A very flat noise floor and low output impedance are pretty much the only requirements.


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## Matias

@beowulf using Idea with laptop has no problem at all, it works clean and clear beautifully. The noise bug happens only with Android devices, and it is not noise floor but rather a driver error or something.


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## Devodonaldson

wwyjoe said:


> Got one of these too, and prefer it over Dragonfly Red. i find the iDea has a more enjoyable sound than the DFR, and also dead silent (no hiss) with my Noble Audio Encore customs. The diminutive size is also another plus and the price.. amazing value!
> 
> The only downside is the buzzing noise as reported here.


Please explain why you prefer over your DFR. Been trying sing DFR since it's release. Was waiting on Mytek Clef later this year for MQA use with Android and UAPP. Also, does the buzzing also occur in airplane mode? I turned an Xperia Z3 into a DAP with the DFR, so everything I lsten to primarily is on local storage.


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## Yogibear91 (Jul 13, 2017)

Devodonaldson said:


> Please explain why you prefer over your DFR. Been trying sing DFR since it's release. Was waiting on Mytek Clef later this year for MQA use with Android and UAPP. Also, does the buzzing also occur in airplane mode? I turned an Xperia Z3 into a DAP with the DFR, so everything I lsten to primarily is on local storage.



Ok after 3 days of use this thing is insanely good and yes it hands down dicks all over the dragonfly. it's an xmos usb decoder asynchronous  with sabre 9018 chip with an amp thats as clean as my Mrs asshole after colonic irrigation and bleaching!

so the buzz only occurs when the smsl idea is plugged into the phone before an application is open, so before you plug it in first open spotify or foobar or tidal ect then plug it in so the app can recognize it.
works a treat with my s7edge no buzz at all.
Also with a laptop it works perfectly regardless! (make sure you go to smsl audio webpage and download the latest asio xmos idea driver makes a world of difference!)

I don't think even hifimediy can make bang for buck better than this! best ultra portable dac/amp under 200 period!

why buy Dragonfly black or red when there's this. also you would have to go for the overpriced red dragonfly if you were wanting to play 32bit dsd files ect. whereas the smsl idea handles them like a dream. the sound is so similar to the much more expensive m8 and sabre dacs 5/6/7 times its price it's not even funny.

for 60 quid you cannot go wrong. best hifi bargain around atm along side the recently released avantone mp1 headphones £199 beats any Headphone under £600 by a long shot (strong statement but true)!!

get both of these products!! 1. before zeos reviews them. 2. before there gone and people are asking silly money for them.


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## Devodonaldson

Yogibear91 said:


> Ok after 3 days of use this thing is insanely good and yes it hands down dicks all over the dragonfly. it's an xmos usb decoder asynchronous  with sabre 9018 chip with an amp thats as clean as my Mrs asshole after colonic irrigation and bleaching!
> 
> so the buzz only occurs when the smsl idea is plugged into the phone before an application is open, so before you plug it in first open spotify or foobar or tidal ect then plug it in so the app can recognize it.
> works a treat with my s7edge no buzz at all.
> ...


Ok. Honestly you had me, until you mentioned 32-bit and DSD and the dragonfly red in the second sentence. The DFR is limited to 24-bit 96khz, just like the dragonfly Black. So, to be honest, that huge error in your post leads me to believe that you possibly haven't even used the DFR. I'm really looking for some honest feedback regarding the SMSL Idea, as I have the DFR. Also would like to know the total nber of volume steps on the DAC.


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## wwyjoe

Devodonaldson said:


> Please explain why you prefer over your DFR. Been trying sing DFR since it's release. Was waiting on Mytek Clef later this year for MQA use with Android and UAPP. Also, does the buzzing also occur in airplane mode? I turned an Xperia Z3 into a DAP with the DFR, so everything I lsten to primarily is on local storage.



Personally, i find the DFR' sound is a bit too 'clinical' / bright for my taste, whereas the iDea is more balanced / musical. 

BTW, had bought this to go with the iDea. https://m.shenzhenaudio.com/shanling-l2-type-c-to-micro-usb-hifi-audio-cable.html

The shorter and more flexible cable makes my setup even more portable!


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## Devodonaldson

wwyjoe said:


> Personally, i find the DFR' sound is a bit too 'clinical' / bright for my taste, whereas the iDea is more balanced / musical.
> 
> BTW, had bought this to go with the iDea. https://m.shenzhenaudio.com/shanling-l2-type-c-to-micro-usb-hifi-audio-cable.html
> 
> The shorter and more flexible cable makes my setup even more portable!


I find that interesting. I never really considered the DFR to be too clinical, granted the only DACs I had to compare it to are the First K12 and hifimediy Android DAC. I really appreciated the the added clarity, volume, etc. I use my DFR on an a Sony Android phone that locks phone volume at full when USB is used, so I have a clipboard with DFR volume steps from 20-60 saved to copy to a terminal emulatir app to change the volume. Doesn't take but a sec, but I always have to turn on screen to change volume. How many steps is the volume control on the IDEA?


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## Yogibear91

Devodonaldson said:


> Ok. Honestly you had me, until you mentioned 32-bit and DSD and the dragonfly red in the second sentence. The DFR is limited to 24-bit 96khz, just like the dragonfly Black. So, to be honest, that huge error in your post leads me to believe that you possibly haven't even used the DFR. I'm really looking for some honest feedback regarding the SMSL Idea, as I have the DFR. Also would like to know the total nber of volume steps on the DAC.


ok. If you read my post properly I'm reviewing the smsl idea "my honest feedback on the smsl" must be pretty honest as I've been listening to it for the past 3 days solidly and if you carry on reading it thourghly it starts saying it beats the dfr hands down. and then I say the smsl can play dsd because it can.

 I have only heard dfb and dfr in 24 bit your right but as far as I was lead to believe, when listening to them both, the reason in upgrading to the dfr is because you are able to play 32 bit but it gets downsampled (where as the dfb won't read them at all) and has a slightly better chipset. my point they can play the files they get downsampled. my next point was why go for any dragonfly at all when the smsl idea does everything they do and more whilst sound more clinical and detailed for half the price. that's my opinion. I have heard 32bit file on my idea so know it handles it at 32 bit just as easy as 24 bit and sounds incredible. so if the dfr doesn't play dsd why buy it at all over the black one? anyway heard all 3 and I still think the smsl sounds better all be it when I was a b ing them it was in 24 bit. just go out spend the money on smsl and you wont regret it. it even has colour indicator like df red and black. 
bye


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## Matias

There is no recording that uses 32 bit resolution (noise floor). In fact not even 24 bit. Higher numbers in my opinion are pointless. Higher sound quality would come from a cleaner power supply, higher power opamp, etc. and not by running 32 bit 768kHz or DSD 512...
I still would have bought the Idea if it were 24/96 for the sound quality itself in the price point.


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## Yogibear91

Matias said:


> There is no recording that uses 32 bit resolution (noise floor). In fact not even 24 bit. Higher numbers in my opinion are pointless. Higher sound quality would come from a cleaner power supply, higher power opamp, etc. and not by running 32 bit 768kHz or DSD 512...
> I still would have bought the Idea if it were 24/96 for the sound quality itself in the price point.




massively agreed


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## Devodonaldson

Anyone else willing to weigh in on the idea vs dragonfly red? Also still trying to find out the *number of volume steps on the DAC*


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## TrantaLocked (Jul 16, 2017)

There's 22 volume steps, from no output to max output.

Impressions. For context, I've previously heard the following ultra mini dacs-amps: Creative X-Fi Go! Pro and Soundblaster E1, FiiO K1, Dragonfly v1.2, Audioengine D3. (no DF Red).

Well then. The SMSL Idea sounds really good, especially when considering form factor. In terms of size and weight, I'd def put it in the same category as the FiiO K1, so yes it's extremely low footprint. Clean and neutral enough sound, with a hint of recession in the upper treble. First impression is it's one of the better ones I've heard, but I still might slightly prefer the Audioengine D3. Both sound great though. I'll see if burn in makes any difference in sound signature.

Other notes: The Idea gets hot. The device works with native Windows 10 audio driver or the XMOS driver from SMSL's website, which enables some extra functionality. Device volume defaults to 10/20 every time plugged in. I can't overstate how small and light the thing actually is in person; it's really. really. small. And good-looking too. There's one single LED that's usually blue for me but may change color depending on usage scenario. It doesn't work OTG with Spotify on my Samsung Galaxy Express Prime, but I've yet to try other apps for OTG. Packaging includes the Idea and three 6" cables; one Micro USB to Micro USB, one to USB C, one to USB A.


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## Oscar-HiFi

I would be interested in a SMSL Idea vs Shanling Up shootout....


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## Matias (Jul 14, 2017)

I counted 22 steps of volume including max and zero (mute).
As for aesthetics I wish it came with black USB cables instead of the white ones.


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## crashbowman

Any chance anyone can elaborate a bit more on the buzzing with Android.  I had been considering this for a few weeks, but waiting on more feedback to roll in.  I was planning to use with UAPP, but with UAPP you normally connect then open and it sounded like the solution to stop the buzzing was to open an app before connecting.


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## rggz (Jul 14, 2017)

TrantaLocked said:


> There's 20 tactile volume steps, from no output to max output.
> 
> Impressions. For context, I've previously heard the following ultra mini dacs-amps: Creative X-Fi Go! Pro and Soundblaster E1, FiiO K1, Dragonfly v1.2, Audioengine D3. (no DF Red).
> 
> ...



Thank you for your impressions! Tbh a bit sad the fact Spotify won't work via OTG. Does the iDEA have enough power to drive an Etymotic ER-4S? It would be nice as a portable solution, I just can use them with an amp to get its full potential.


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## Matias (Jul 14, 2017)

crashbowman said:


> Any chance anyone can elaborate a bit more on the buzzing with Android.



With cell phone turned on, no app running, I plug the Idea into the USB port. Then I open an app say YouTube, select a music video and hit play. No music comes out, only a moderately loud buzz sound. This is not noise floor and not on top the music, just the buzzing sound.

If I disconnect the Idea and hit play again, music comes out of the cell phone speakers normally.

Now say I leave the music playing on YouTube and then I plug the Idea in. Then music comes out of the idea without any buzz or noise whatsoever, but in my case, even with cell volume and Idea volume max, the music is somewhat low in volume.


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## wushuliu

TrantaLocked said:


> There's 20 tactile volume steps, from no output to max output.
> 
> Impressions. For context, I've previously heard the following ultra mini dacs-amps: Creative X-Fi Go! Pro and Soundblaster E1, FiiO K1, Dragonfly v1.2, Audioengine D3. (no DF Red).
> 
> Well then. The SMSL Idea sounds really good, especially when considering form factor. In terms of size and weight, I'd def put it in the same category as the FiiO K1, so yes it's extremely low footprint. Clean and neutral enough sound, with a hint of recession in the upper treble. First impression is it's one of the better ones I've heard, but I still might slightly prefer the Audioengine D3. Both sound great though. I'll see if burn in makes any difference in sound signature.



If it's not better than an Audioengine D3, the Idea isn't much of a bargain. And if it isn't better than the desktop SMSL Sabre dac then that doesn't sound compelling either, considering how much modding people have had to do on those to get them to sound decent.


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## TrantaLocked (Jul 16, 2017)

Matias said:


> I counted 22 steps of volume including max and zero (mute).
> As for aesthetics I wish it came with black USB cables instead of the white ones.



Yep, you're right. Edited my post.



rggz said:


> Thank you for your impressions! Tbh a bit sad the fact Spotify won't work via OTG. Does the iDEA have enough power to drive an Etymotic ER-4S? It would be nice as a portable solution, I just can use them with an amp to get its full potential.



It might just be my specific phone model that isn't working, for whatever reasons. I've never tried OTG before so take this as a newb's initial attempt at getting it to work. All I did was have the spotify app open and connect the Idea, and while the LED turned purple (?) there wasn't any audio output. And yeah, there's plenty of power for the ER4S.



wushuliu said:


> If it's not better than an Audioengine D3, the Idea isn't much of a bargain. And if it isn't better than the desktop SMSL Sabre dac then that doesn't sound compelling either, considering how much modding people have had to do on those to get them to sound decent.



It might be better depending on what you want out of your dac. The Idea is super low footprint, with a very clean and coherent sound. Honestly one could go either way with the Idea vs D3 depending on preference and headphone matching. And in terms of DF v1.2 vs Idea, Idea wins.


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## crashbowman

Matias said:


> With cell phone turned on, no app running, I plug the Idea into the USB port. Then I open an app say YouTube, select a music video and hit play. No music comes out, only a moderately loud buzz sound. This is not noise floor and not on top the music, just the buzzing sound.
> 
> If I disconnect the Idea and hit play again, music comes out of the cell phone speakers normally.
> 
> Now say I leave the music playing on YouTube and then I plug the Idea in. Then music comes out of the idea without any buzz or noise whatsoever, but in my case, even with cell volume and Idea volume max, the music is somewhat low in volume.



Thank you, this was very helpful!


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## Yogibear91

crashbowman said:


> Any chance anyone can elaborate a bit more on the buzzing with Android.  I had been considering this for a few weeks, but waiting on more feedback to roll in.  I was planning to use with UAPP, but with UAPP you normally connect then open and it sounded like the solution to stop the buzzing was to open an app before connecting.




If you read my post on the previous pages the smsl idea DOES work with spotify and android the buzzing occurs only when spotify has not been opened before you plug in the dac. a couple of times plugging in and out when the apps actually open, if it's not already gone the buzzing goes. then it will work all day on your phone.


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## TrantaLocked

Yogibear91 said:


> If you read my post on the previous pages the smsl idea DOES work with spotify and android the buzzing occurs only when spotify has not been opened before you plug in the dac. a couple of times plugging in and out when the apps actually open, if it's not already gone the buzzing goes. then it will work all day on your phone.



I've tried all the methods and the Idea still will not work properly with my phone. People will need to check specific phone model and app compatibility.


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## Matias

Interesting that if I connect the Idea to my Moto X Style before opening any app, the LED turn purple which means 384kHz sample rate, and when I open an app the buzzing comes out.
But when I have the app running before plugging in the Idea, when it works, its LED is on blue which means 44kHz sample rate. 
But the low volume probably is related to using the lowest 24 bit on a 32 bit sample depth, so that the signal does not reach full scale? I don't know, just speculating.


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## ClintonL

Just got one and can't get it to work with my s7 at all, all i get is buzzing.


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## snip3r77

Anyone compared with DF Black?


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## niron

ClintonL said:


> Just got one and can't get it to work with my s7 at all, all i get is buzzing.



I had the same buzzing issues with my Android phone.

I used this solution and it works.


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## Matias (Jul 19, 2017)

Added your video to the first post. Thanks a lot, great video!

By the way I tested on my Moto X Style and the USB options do not show up on the notifications. And looking into the settings menu there is nothing about USB to change too.

This article has lots of information for USB Audio in Android. I sent it to SMSL to help them implement 2.0 with Android.
https://source.android.com/devices/audio/usb


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## niron

Thanks @Matias,

If you enter Quick Settings in the menu, you can modify which settings appear in your notification bar. There's gotta be something there.
I'm gonna try it out with some other Android devices.


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## Matias (Jul 19, 2017)

@niron nope, nothing at all. And I am using Android 7 here.
Try it on a stock Android such as Pixel, Nexus or Moto X Pure/Style if you can, please.


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## niron

Matias said:


> @niron nope, nothing at all. And I am using Android 7 here.
> Try it on a stock Android such as Pixel, Nexus or Moto X Pure/Style if you can, please.



Alright, I have managed to find it on some other Android devices like the Samsung Galaxy series for example. Here's what you have to do:

Go to Settings > Developers Options > USB Configuration > Change to Midi

If you don't see Developers Options - You have to go to Settings > About Device > Software Info > Click Build Number X7 times (it will add developers options to settings).


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## Matias

I enabled the developer options, connected the Idea, turned "Select USB Configuration" to MIDI, opened YouTube app and still buzzing.


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## niron

That's strange. Try to change to something else other than "charging".

I'm really enjoying this SMSL DAC/AMP device. The HF Player up sampling to DSD is truly a GEM!


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## Matias

I also tested Audio Source, MIDI, Media Transfer Protocol... buzz all around. There seems to be no way to get around this buzzing...


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## niron

So far I tested with Huawei, Samsung, Nexus, Meizu, Xiaomi and LG devices. All worked well.


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## snip3r77

niron said:


> So far I tested with Huawei, Samsung, Nexus, Meizu, Xiaomi and LG devices. All worked well.


what about iPhone?


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## niron

snip3r77 said:


> what about iPhone?



Works well, but you need the Camera Kit.


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## Matias

niron said:


> So far I tested with Huawei, Samsung, Nexus, Meizu, Xiaomi and LG devices. All worked well.


Feeling unlucky that my Motorola is not in that list...


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## Flex2d (Jul 20, 2017)

Ok thought i would add my pennies worth.. Just got my SMSL Idea, and wow the sounds it clean precise well balanced and the bass is clean and punchy. really changed the sound of my music drastically.. i have totally fallen in love with my collection again ! I cant stress how much i love this little bit of kit. The only gripe i might have is when i try to run spotify i have switch the default device to a different audio out put then back again to get it to register it. Sound wise it is beautiful and i love it. literally it is clean present detailed and changed my headphones into something mesmerising to listen to. unbelievable. love it

and no i am not a sales rep lol.

Love my intimate music experience

Daniel


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## snip3r77

Best price at massdrop ?


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## niron

snip3r77 said:


> Best price at massdrop ?



Yes, right now it is the best price around, but I have seen the prices going down on Amazon as well, so definitely worth a follow.


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## Flex2d

I bought mine from shenzhenaudio.com, took a week to arrive and cost $85 dollars £69
Not sure about the cost on Massdrop.


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## Ynot1

Would powers that be at massdrop be able to include a MFI cable adapter, for their specially configured unit?


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## dc655321

@hotteen 

I spent a few hours listening to the Idea paired with the flc8s on both my laptop (linux) and my desktop (os x), and I have to say I'm impressed.
Black background with a crisp, clean sound. Compared to the output from iphone 5 se, the Idea is not vastly different, just subtly so.
In particular, I noticed that I could push the Idea to louder volumes with better clarity. I also appreciate the finer volume control that can be achieved (vs laptop, desktop, phone volume).

IMO, a great little device.


----------



## snip3r77

dc655321 said:


> @hotteen
> 
> I spent a few hours listening to the Idea paired with the flc8s on both my laptop (linux) and my desktop (os x), and I have to say I'm impressed.
> Black background with a crisp, clean sound. Compared to the output from iphone 5 se, the Idea is not vastly different, just subtly so.
> ...


What other reference dac and amonyou have ?


----------



## dc655321

snip3r77 said:


> What other reference dac and amonyou have ?



I tried a Dragonfly Black for a time, but was put off by a constant, low-level hiss. This was present even in the absence of input (nothing playing).
Perhaps the unit I had was defective in some way, or maybe the noise-filtering circuitry of the Idea is superior. I don't know...
I also recall the DFB producing sound that was indistinguishable, to my ears, from that of my iphone (with flc8s).
The experience was somewhat disappointing. Nothing that a painless return to Amazon could not solve, though


----------



## Matias (Jul 24, 2017)

I listen to my Idea through IEMs mostly and connected directly to a notebook USB port, no special filters or cables. No background noise at all.
The clarity and resolution of this device is really impressive.

Archimago has measurements of the Dragonfly Black compared to Idea and other dac+amp dongles. Indeed DFB is the noisiest of them.
http://archimago.blogspot.com.br/2017/06/measurements-audioquest-dragonfly-black.html


----------



## raducutzu

Here´s my recommendation for you, guys:

Download the latest stable driver from SMSL site. I also recommend downloading the XMOS USB driver here:

https://www.xmos.com/support/boards?product=18340 

It provides control over buffering and latencies, among other things, and it´s useful because the SMSL's latest driver doesn´t have any UI to interact with.

The issue we all have on Android  is due, apparentely, to the charging mode kicking in automatically. To enter the audio/midi mode, you have to play a video on You Tube, or some random track on your music app, and ONLY THEN connect the IDEA to the phone, WHILE IT'S STILL PLAYING. You should hear no more buzz, and now you can play your music via USB Audio Player or whatever app you have installed, until the next disconnect. Unfortunately, you'll have to repeat the process all over again, it's a little annoying, but the sound quality makes up for the effort.

Mine gets a little hot to the touch, but it is soooo small, and yet it packs so much punch, I cannot believe it. It's kinda power-thursty, to be honest, it can drain my Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 3000 mah battery twice as fast as usual, but still, I can totally take it out for a walk and still have a lot of battery left. I totally recommend this little gadget, you better check this link below, it says it's 74,78 euros, but via app I got a decent discount and only paid 66,14 euros, and it seems like a reliable seller, I got mine in about 3 weeks (from China to Spain):

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/2017...32813384057.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.ZGczxv


----------



## wwyjoe

To avoid the buzzing, what I'll do is to launch UAPP first without connecting iDea. UAPP will display an error popup saying "Android did not find any devices.....". After dismissing the popup, i will then connect iDea and music plays fine. 

I think the error popup acts as a way of initializing the app which prevents the buzzing problem. Similarly, i have to repeat this process before each hookup...


----------



## atmfrank (Jul 25, 2017)

Newbie here (HD600/KZ ATE/DF Red 1.0/Black 1.5/Gustard X20u - main gear) with spoiled ears.

Just received the red version yesterday and went straight to work to test out my various environments. First of, the sound on the HD600 is fantastic (DSD mode) with plenty of juice to drive these puppies. But there are some quality problems, both hardware and software/driver related.

#1) The micro USB connector seems very touchy. If you wiggle the adapter cable too much, somehow it causes the driver to crash (Mac and PC/Win10). Possibly a mechanical problem. When the driver crashes, normal ways to restore functions do not work (unplug/disable/re-enable device etc.). So far, only a reboot has proven successful.

#2) On Win10 the IDEA drivers from SMSL are fine. You can set the default Win10 resolution up to 32/192k, but I have yet to figure out how to push higher rates. Foobar resample (Resampler V) limits to 192k. DSD playback only in source format (DSD64). Couldn't get Foobar DSD ASIO plugin (with upsample features) to work and was limited to the IDEA installed ASIO driver. Otherwise, if you leave it running at 176/192k the sound is great!

#3) On Mac using Audirvana+ I was able to get up to DSD128 (DOP only!). Upsampling to DSD256 produces noise/buzz. DSD512 doesn't appear to be supported, which I believe is a software limitation in Audirvana. DSD128 sound is fantastic on my HD600. Test music: Patricia Barber SACD. Other sources (FLAC 24/96 or 16/44) upsample fine to DSD128.

#4 On RPI3 with VOLUMIO. Absolutely no luck whatsoever to get higher rates than 44.1. Anything above in DSD native/DOP or higher rates result in noise/buzz. Seems to be a compatibility issue with the RPI/Volumio software distribution. Was hoping to get at least 32/192k.

#5 Nexus 6P (7.1). Had an initial problem with the USB mode, which caused the sound to be distorted. Had to change from "Charge" to "Midi", back and forth to get clean sound at 44.1k only. 

#6 On my HTC10 it is still problematic. The USB connection doesn't give the option to switch to "Midi" and is stuck on "Charge", which produces buzz noise. I decided to buy USB Audio Player Pro, which was recommended in the previous post. Result: OK, 786k upsampling works within the app! No problem. However, switching back to Google Music is not working at all. 


Overall I love the product. For the price paid ($65 on recent promotion), I am more forgiving about the incompatibilities and limitations. After all, this little gem is pushing the boundaries, the sound is phenomenal, whereas the DF Red with 24/96k limitation is the more conservative approach, but rock solid. Since this is a fun hobby, I will gladly spend more time with the IDEA tweaking the software of these setups.

Hope this is helpful.   -frank


----------



## snip3r77

atmfrank said:


> Newbie here (HD600/KZ ATE/DF Red 1.0/Black 1.5/Gustard X20u - main gear) with spoiled ears.
> 
> Overall I love the product. For the price paid ($65 on recent promotion), I am more forgiving about the incompatibilities and limitations. After all, this little gem is pushing the boundaries, the sound is phenomenal, whereas the DF Red with 24/96k limitation is the more conservative approach, but rock solid. Since this is a fun hobby, I will gladly spend more time with the IDEA tweaking the software of these setups.
> 
> Hope this is helpful.   -frank



How does the idea compares to DF Red and Black , output to an IEM. Thanks


----------



## atmfrank

From the limited time I had playing with the IDEA, sound quality on the HD600 is a notch improved to the DF Red, with more detail and overall more "air" in hi-res mode. With the cheap KZ ATE (which I believe are the bargain IEM's of the century), I couldn't tell (yet) much difference. Output levels are very strong, but less reserve on the high impendence HD600.


----------



## snip3r77

atmfrank said:


> From the limited time I had playing with the IDEA, sound quality on the HD600 is a notch improved to the DF Red, with more detail and overall more "air" in hi-res mode. With the cheap KZ ATE (which I believe are the bargain IEM's of the century), I couldn't tell (yet) much difference. Output levels are very strong, but less reserve on the high impendence HD600.


When will massdrop is back with Idea


----------



## atmfrank

Quick update. Both of my Androids (HTC 10 / Nexus 6P) work fine with USB Audio Player Pro @full 768k upsample resolution. But connecting the IDEA to either phone without UAPP will only result in buzzing noise. Therefore you cannot run Google Music or other players. I don't use Spotify/Pandora etc, but I assume those will have the same problem. Shenzen Audio responded to my inquiry with "...buzzing means phones are not supported". I asked about future firmware updates, which was not answered, so assume "no".


----------



## Ynot1

Accessport allows you to charge and listen without problems. Does this idea work with a mini hub to charge via a power bank?


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 1, 2017)

atmfrank said:


> Quick update. Both of my Androids (HTC 10 / Nexus 6P) work fine with USB Audio Player Pro @full 768k upsample resolution. But connecting the IDEA to either phone without UAPP will only result in buzzing noise. Therefore you cannot run Google Music or other players. I don't use Spotify/Pandora etc, but I assume those will have the same problem. Shenzen Audio responded to my inquiry with "...buzzing means phones are not supported". I asked about future firmware updates, which was not answered, so assume "no".



Try this: disconnect the DAC, and close the UAPP (from the backround processes as well), it's designed to lock the DAC for its use. Open a video on You Tube, or play a song on Google Music, and connect the DAC WHILE IT´S PLAYING. UAPP will most definitely launch with a popup message, click on Cancel, and resume playback, it should work fine now.

Don´t forget that UAPP seems to set the system sound volume to zero every time it launches, so use the HW volumen buttons on your phone if you don't hear anything. And sometimes you might consider a reboot, this would usually fix the issue. Unfortunately you'll have to repeat the process every time you connect the DAC, for some reason it's being recognized by the Android as a device that needs charging. The buzz you're hearing could be the juice the phone is pushing through USB to "charge" the DAC, beyond the usual 500 mAh used in data/audio transfer (I think).


----------



## snip3r77

is there a lot of issues if it's used plugged to a laptop and also with iPhone 6S?


----------



## Yogibear91

Matias said:


> I enabled the developer options, connected the Idea, turned "Select USB Configuration" to MIDI, opened YouTube app and still buzzing.


you potentially have a defected smsl idea. I have no problem with my s7 edge . if the above has not worked i would try opening app first press play on your song or video then plug it in ....and out and in until buzzing goes. it happened to me once at beginning and now it's fine every time. if that doesn't work I would contact smsl and organize a repair or something. it will be worth sorting out however you do it as I find this product is best bang for buck I've heard.

hope it sorts itself.


----------



## Matias

snip3r77 said:


> is there a lot of issues if it's used plugged to a laptop and also with iPhone 6S?


No issues with laptops. Don't know about iPhones.



Yogibear91 said:


> you potentially have a defected smsl idea. I have no problem with my s7 edge . if the above has not worked i would try opening app first press play on your song or video then plug it in ....and out and in until buzzing goes. it happened to me once at beginning and now it's fine every time. if that doesn't work I would contact smsl and organize a repair or something. it will be worth sorting out however you do it as I find this product is best bang for buck I've heard.
> 
> hope it sorts itself.


I don't think it is a malfunctioning unit, but rather incompatibility between my idea and my moto x. It does work when youtube is playing and I insert it, but rather low volume even if maxed out.


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 3, 2017)

This is the email I just sent to Kelly of S.M.S.L.:

_Hello Kelly,

I get in touch with you to report a compatibility issue. I use the iDEA connected to my Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 phone, and sometimes I get a buzzing noise instead of music. I understand that my device is not compatible, as it is not listed on your database, but it actually works with USB Audio Player Pro most of the time. Sometimes the buzzing comes back, always after plugging into the phone, and even though I somehow managed to circumvent the issue by launching UAPP first, then connect it, the problem doesn´t seem to be gone completely. Sadly I'm not alone, almost ALL Android users who bought it experience the same issues:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smsl-idea-portable-dac-amp.851110/

What happens is the DAC is not recognized as an audio interface, so Android detects it as a hard drive or even as a device that needs charging, which increases the current on the bus, therefore we get a buzzing noise instead of sound. Some Android versions have in a submenu inside the UI the appropriate easy-to-access "USB Audio" option, but most don´t, which doesn´t necesarily mean it doesn´t work, it just doesn´t do it AUTOMATICALLY, as in my case. Once switched, it works great, but still, it´s quite annoying and will make for sure the users to give bad reviews, despite its great potential on paper.

What I´m going to say now may very well be the craziest advice/suggestion you´ve ever received, but maybe you should have taken HiFime Sabre approach, with their limitations to the well tested USB 1.0 compliance and no more than 96 kHz 24 bit audio. Forget about DSD for now, what people need is RELIABILITY above else, if the Android platform is not mature enough, keep it simple and safe. Compared to the aforementioned device, you still would have had the edge: better design, smaller footprint, and volume control buttons for roughly the same price. Why is it then yours don´t receive the same acclaim? Who cares the chip inside is capable of all those things? Very, very few people need it, most of us appreciate more RELIABILITY over UNCERTAINTY.

I don´t even know if this would fix the issue, but I checked out the latest __xCORE-AUDIO Configuration Utility__, and it´s pretty straight forward. As stated on the paragraph 2.2.3 of the pdf manual, I would suggest you (if I may) to change the value: 
_
*# USB Audio class 1.0 enable/disable*

*UAC_1_ENABLE = 0*
_
to "1" instead of "0", create an alternative firmware for those with compatibility issues, and provide a guide to flash the device to downgrade. And from now on sell it in two configurations, "if your phone is not listed, just buy this one", something along those lines. I would have happily payed the same amount of money for a "lesser", but more compatible, pain-free version. This would have made for a great gift, as well, but as I care about the people I give it to, I might look elsewhere, not to mention I don´t want them to constantly call me.

I don´t know if the issue is on your end, or XMOS´, but unless you try to solve this problem quickly, this device will not have the impact it deserves. You have a golden opportunity to turn this into the go-to portable DAC for the masses, but with no widespread Android compatibility this is hard to imagine, let alone it would defeat its own purpose as a portable device.



Looking forward to hearing from you, yours trully,_

etc...

Let´s see what they have to say, although I wouldn´t hold my breath...

PS: All of you with HI-RES DSD audio, please note I suggest they keep selling it "as is" AND downgraded, don´t forget we´re all on the same side .

Also:

https://www.xmos.com/published/xcore-audio-configuration-utility?version=latest


----------



## raducutzu

snip3r77 said:


> is there a lot of issues if it's used plugged to a laptop and also with iPhone 6S?


It works flawlessly on my Windows 7 laptop, with both foobar2k and JRiver. Not so great on Android, it needs tweaking more often than not, but once it's done, it´s great.


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## atmfrank (Aug 2, 2017)

Hello raducutzu.

Excellent effort to reach out to SMSL. Couldn't agree more with your suggestions to increase reliability. I thought they could easily provide a Windows based utility (for advanced users) that configures the unit for specific use cases, for example limiting the sampling rates to 24/96 as this seems to work well for the Dragonfly DAC's and others. For the iDEA, I was finally able to get my Nexus 6P to work with G Music/Youtube by clearing the UAPP app defaults. My HTC10 reacts completely differently and does not work. It already has a built-in 24/96 DAC, but again, it's annoying that the iDEA only works with workarounds on one phone, not at all on the other. Eagerly awaiting the reply from SMSL....thanks,


----------



## Matias

There is an official guideline from Android to manufacturers to set up USB Audio properly, I sent them by e-mail as well.
https://source.android.com/devices/audio/usb


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## snip3r77

Anyone using this with the iPhone 6s? Any issue with certain noise encountered with the dragonfly ?


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 3, 2017)

atmfrank said:


> Hello raducutzu.
> 
> Excellent effort to reach out to SMSL. Couldn't agree more with your suggestions to increase reliability. I thought they could easily provide a Windows based utility (for advanced users) that configures the unit for specific use cases, for example limiting the sampling rates to 24/96 as this seems to well for the Dragonfly DAC's and others. For the iDEA, I was finally able to get my Nexus 6P to work with G Music/Youtube by clearing the UAPP app defaults. My HTC10 reacts completely differently and does not work. It already has a built-in 24/96 DAC, but again, it's annoying that the iDEA only works with workarounds on one phone, but not at all on the other. Eagerly awaiting the reply from SMSL....thanks,


I don´t know if the fix applied by the Windows utility you suggest would work in a different environment other than Windows, once you unplug the iDEA. For it to be permanent it should rewrite the firmware of your choice, by flashing it, which is what I would prefer. This would be great, but we're talking SMSL here, not Samsung or Apple, they sold what, 500 units so far? I´m afraid they will not bother to code a utility just for us, instead they will keep ignoring the potential customers they lose by not doing it. But yeah, we have to keep trying, the more emails they get, the closer we are to get a solution.

I wonder how hard it would be for an IT person (you have to keep your gender neutrality in check, right?) to compile a new firmware using _xCORE-AUDIO Configuration Utility_, and provide a guide for us laymen to flash the person. It should have, however, SMSL´s firmware as a starting point, not XMOS', as I guess there are some added functionalities, like the volume control buttons. I can see this happening, the question is who tells Solderdude and his friends to put this on their list?


----------



## raducutzu

Matias said:


> There is an official guideline from Android to manufacturers to set up USB Audio properly, I sent them by e-mail as well.
> https://source.android.com/devices/audio/usb


Great read, thank you. BTW, SMSL must have skipped these recommendations:

_"In order to inter-operate with Android devices, audio peripheral vendors should: _

_design for audio class compliance; currently Android targets class 1, but it is wise to plan for class 2_
_avoid __quirks_"
So the audio class 2 thingy is still in beta, but as the Mavericks as they are, SMSL are pushing the boundaries once again! Talk about swim against the current LOL.


----------



## DjBobby

snip3r77 said:


> Anyone using this with the iPhone 6s? Any issue with certain noise encountered with the dragonfly ?


With iPhone 7, it works with literary everything except Onkyo HF.


----------



## snip3r77

DjBobby said:


> With iPhone 7, it works with literary everything except Onkyo HF.



If you listen to an hour , how much battery percentage does it drop? Thanks


----------



## DjBobby

snip3r77 said:


> If you listen to an hour , how much battery percentage does it drop? Thanks


Quite a lot, can't remember exactly, but it is about double of iDol, and also much more than X4.


----------



## snip3r77

DjBobby said:


> Quite a lot, can't remember exactly, but it is about double of iDol, and also much more than X4.


Less than 10% ?


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 3, 2017)

For those who still experience the buzzing noise, and like me only use this DAC to play files locally on their Android device, after a few days of tweaking I can recommend this:

- Install UAPP and launch it. Despite what the developer recommends, this DAC needs the driver to take complete control over the USB before plugging in. As they state in their advertising, it only works within the app. I know, it´s not free, but just pay the lady, you will never look back. From what I can tell their driver works much better than Android's.
- Plug in the device
- Check the "Default " option in the pop-up message. I suggest you uninstall any other player like Hiby Music, I have both and the pop-up message kept showing up when the DAC was plugged in, and sometimes this added step prevented the driver to operate, which caused the buzzing. Unless you can disable the autostart option for Hiby Music like I can on my Xiaomi device, you might consider uninstall it altogether, you don´t want any interference in the process.
- (Optional) Install a little app called USB Host Check (also recommended by the UAPP's developer). In case your Android device lacks the USB host feature or it's not implemented correctly, it will try and rewrite the xml USB Host file, and enable it. To my surprise, mine had to be patched this way for the iDEA to work properly, even though I'd used OTG cables in the past with no issues. The thing is I had to hit "Fix"  several times, "Recheck", then "Fix" again for the file to be written. YMMV, but if you get the error message, don't give up easily. From the feedback users gave, on some devices might not be posible, though. If you got to this step, reboot the device and launch UAPP.

In my case this fixed the buzzing, the DAC is now detected by the UAPP every single time and works great. Unfortunately, I can no longer use it with any other app, not even You Tube. I don´t get the buzzing any more, but no other sound either from any other app except UAPP (only through the iDEA; if I unplug it, everything goes back to normal and I can listen through the speaker or the audio jack). The USB driver is doing its job too well, which in my case is what I prefer, to be honest.


----------



## cammerarian

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the following is now appearing on the SMSL website:

"SMSL iDEA Firmware update Solving the issue of some phones’ OTG transmission don’t compatible with.USB transmission will be USB1.1 specs after updates(USB2.0 transmission as factory setting).Contact us if firmware needed.Thanks!"


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 4, 2017)

cammerarian said:


> Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the following is now appearing on the SMSL website:
> 
> "SMSL iDEA Firmware update Solving the issue of some phones’ OTG transmission don’t compatible with.USB transmission will be USB1.1 specs after updates(USB2.0 transmission as factory setting).Contact us if firmware needed.Thanks!"


GREAT NEWS! At least for me.I don´t know, maybe they do read their emails. Thanks for the tip.

Will get in touch with them, I'll let you know guys.


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## niron (Aug 4, 2017)

Great news indeed. If someone's getting the new firmware update, please upload the file to either Google Drive, Dropbox or any other storage services and share it.


----------



## Matias

cammerarian said:


> "SMSL iDEA Firmware update Solving the issue of some phones’ OTG transmission don’t compatible with.USB transmission will be USB1.1 specs after updates(USB2.0 transmission as factory setting).Contact us if firmware needed.Thanks!"



I got this by e-mail a few days ago too but did not post here.
There is a big "however" in this new firmware: it is not possible to revert to USB Audio 2.0 afterwards. It means that *once you go 24/96 it is definite and cannot go back!*
"Kindly noted that it is unable to revise back to 2.0 if decided to 1.1."


----------



## Ynot1

Between X4 and Idea sound quality is close to the same as mentioned earlier, but no one mentioned any noise when Android is setup to charge instead of midi. So does that mean X4 is a better deal because fewer people will complain because of the value proposition? Arguably price doubles and you hear many people complain about noise.


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 4, 2017)

Matias said:


> I got this by e-mail a few days ago too but did not post here.
> There is a big "however" in this new firmware: it is not possible to revert to USB Audio 2.0 afterwards. It means that *once you go 24/96 it is definite and cannot go back!*
> "Kindly noted that it is unable to revise back to 2.0 if decided to 1.1."


Well, I don´t necesarily love the idea of not being able to revert it, but I guess it has to be that way, I lack the technical knowledge to pass judgment. I would´ve gone and bought this versión anyway, had them released it in two versions, so no problem for me here. And judging by the great reviews HiFime Sabre 9018 gets, I´d say for many, many people either.

I got into hifi quite recently, and for me this is way more than I need. Although my +50.000 music tracks sound great, they´re still AAC 256 kbps mostly. I already started the upgrade to lossless as the next obvious step, but by no means will I go beyond 24/96, especially on my Android phone while taking a walk or running. What about the PC, you say? The other day I was listening to some classical music on my laptop, which is the only environment one could take full advantage of the specs, and the fan was already interfering, as my Koss Porta Pro-s are open-back headphones. And as I will most likely upgrade my head gear with yet another open headphones in the future, the Android phone + iDEA will still be the quietest configuration, with the added compatibility and reliability.

So great news, indeed.


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 4, 2017)

Ynot1 said:


> Between X4 and Idea sound quality is close to the same as mentioned earlier, but no one mentioned any noise when Android is setup to charge instead of midi. So does that mean X4 is a better deal because fewer people will complain because of the value proposition? Arguably price doubles and you hear many people complain about noise.


I guess all boils down to choosing between a Wolfson and a Sabre DAC, between a Texas Instruments and an XMOS chip. I personally had to choose between the iDEA or the HiFime Sabre 9018, so at the same price point, the iDEA´s better looks (ah, the red!), better specs (with the update would be the same), aluminium body, smaller footprint, no cables pre-atached, and most importantly, volume control buttons, I was sold. The only fear I had were the issues on Android, once they´re gone it will be perfect. Because the new firmware is supposed to solve all the incompatibility problems, I hope. It´s the same aproach HiFime guys had, except they sell the same device in two configurations. You can check on their webpage the reasons behind not going full specs on one of them.

Nevertheless, the X4 is a great little DAC, but I don't have it here to compare, so I wouldn't know if its audio quality is close to iDEA´s. I trust XMOS and ESS Sabre more, and want the best for my budget.


----------



## dc655321

To people that report buzzing when using the iDEA with Android devices, check out from the 6:04 mark .
HTH.


----------



## dc655321

Better link? 

Sorry.


----------



## raducutzu (Aug 5, 2017)

dc655321 said:


> Better link?
> 
> Sorry.



Ok, nice reminder, but you should know we all tried to do the trick, but couldn't find it. That particular Android version comes with it, mine doesn't. It´s not even in Developer Settings.

*QUICK UPDATE (ESPECIALLY FOR MIUI 8 USERS):
*
In order to prevent the Android and UAPP USB drivers to collide, in Developer Settings I checked the option "Disable USB audio routing":




Now UAPP is the only app that streams audio via USB automatically, all the other apps will use exclusively the audio jack or the speaker. It`s not an ideal scenario for all of us, especially if you´re using HibyMusic, which relies on Android's drivers for the task, but at least I managed to get rid of the buzzing 99.9% of the time. The only time it got back was when I turned on and off bit perfect and/or upsample, turning these options off would result in buzzing, All I had to do was to unplug and plug it again, and the noise was gone. The funny thing is now I hit play in Poweramp and the UAPP playback stops, but the sound comes out of the speaker, and vice-versa, if I hit play in UAPP again, Poweramp stops and the sound comes out of the earbuds. Each USB driver does what it´s designed for, and interact with each other seamlessly. No more strange behaviour or buzzing, just pure musical enjoyment.

I was listening to some music, and my wife called. UAPP´s playback paused, and could hear perfectly through the speaker. Once I hanged up, music resumed through the earbuds. For me it´s just perfect, as I don´t plan on using the DAC except for music.

I for one don´t need any firmware anymore, this did the trick.


----------



## DjBobby

snip3r77 said:


> Less than 10% ?


It's well over 10%.


----------



## The Chief 5055

USB 1.1 firmware from SMSL:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B81LDYcWypQNOTI5djlkZzNoa2M

Please, be warned — you can't revert to usb 2.0 without original firmware!


----------



## niron

So yáll using the UAPP with the IDEA DAC? 

I'm using the HF Player and it sounds pretty amazing but am definitely looking to try more options.


----------



## The Chief 5055

niron said:


> but am definitely looking to try more options.


Most useful UAPP options are: 1) uPnP renderer, allowing streaming via BubbleUPnP (or any uPnP streaming app); 2) playback from DLNA/SAMBA network sources (DSD are also playable).


----------



## TrantaLocked (Aug 9, 2017)

The Chief 5055 said:


> USB 1.1 firmware from SMSL:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B81LDYcWypQNOTI5djlkZzNoa2M
> 
> Please, be warned — you can't revert to usb 2.0 without original firmware!



Is it normal that the XMOS updater doesn't recognize the Idea after updating the firmware?

And even with the update, it still isnt working with spotify on my Galaxy Express Prime.


----------



## The Chief 5055

TrantaLocked said:


> Is it normal that the XMOS updater doesn't recognize the Idea after updating the firmware?


Most likely SMSL disabled DFU mode in this update. So it's like a "one time downgrade" and can't be reverted.


----------



## TrantaLocked

The Chief 5055 said:


> Most likely SMSL disabled DFU mode in this update. So it's like a "one time downgrade" and can't be reverted.



Downgrade?


----------



## The Chief 5055

TrantaLocked said:


> Downgrade?


Going from Audio Class 2 to Class 1 is definitely a downgrade.


----------



## TrantaLocked (Aug 9, 2017)

Oh, then why was this update posted to SMSL's website and why did I update to it?

And why can't you go back?


----------



## Matias

TrantaLocked said:


> Oh, then why was this update posted to SMSL's website and why did I update to it?
> 
> And why can't you go back?



Really?
This update is posted for those with incompatible mobile devices in order to run the Idea in 24/96 max. And since 24/96 max is more limited than the 24/384 and DSD128 it supports max when running in USB Audio 2.0, this is a downgrade.

And as why cannot go back, good question. Ask them.


----------



## TrantaLocked (Aug 10, 2017)

Matias said:


> Really?
> This update is posted for those with incompatible mobile devices in order to run the Idea in 24/96 max. And since 24/96 max is more limited than the 24/384 and DSD128 it supports max when running in USB Audio 2.0, this is a downgrade.
> 
> And as why cannot go back, good question. Ask them.



Most people wouldn't even know because there aren't any notes about the update on SMSL's website, so the "really?" is inappropriate here.

I've never ever had a device or software for which an update had intentional drawbacks or was hampered in ability to be updated as a result of an update. Neither of those make any sense, and again, I've never seen it in my life. I saw the update on SMSL's website and assumed, like I should have, that it fixed bugs or improved functionality. The update didn't even do what it was apparently intended to do in my case (fix android compatibility), and in addition it seems to have introduced a clipping noise bug I wasn't hearing before and now the inability to go above 24/96 in Windows. It can't be reverted, which wasn't noted on the download page on SMSL's website. SMSL is really who we should be saying really to here.

I'm awaiting their response on reverting back to the previous firmware.


----------



## The Chief 5055

TrantaLocked said:


> there aren't any notes about the update on SMSL's website


Really?    Look at  http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=133 :







You know what «USB1.1 specs» means? Audio Class 1, dude. So it's a downgrade. Factory firmware has 2 USB configurations: USB Audio Class 2 and Audio Class 1 for backward compatibility, so host will define desired config to deal with. F/W «upgrade» we're talking about has no Class 2 configuration, so no choice — only Class 1.


----------



## TrantaLocked

The Chief 5055 said:


> Really?    Look at  http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=133 :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That could easily be interpreted as software version 1.1. And that bit neither says anything about not being able to revert nor is it placed next the the actual page where you download the file.


----------



## The Chief 5055

TrantaLocked said:


> That could easily be interpreted as software version 1.1


Using that logic of yours, factory software version could be interpreted as version 2.0. So, downgrade again.


----------



## TrantaLocked (Aug 10, 2017)

The Chief 5055 said:


> Using that logic of yours, factory software version could be interpreted as version 2.0. So, downgrade again.



As if I knew that the original firmware version was 2.0, or as if even if I had seen the number 2.0 anywhere that I should have ridigly assumed that a lesser number meant downgrade and that any such conclusion should override my correct knowledge of what an update is known and _supposed_ to entail? The download link clearly stated FW update. Updates are not known to be "limited use" sidegrades, and it's even lesser known for an update to intentionally block further updating or downgrading. Even Microsoft let's you revert from Windows 10 to 8 or 7, and we all know how full of it Microsoft is. But it isn't SMSL that's full of it, just inexperienced.

No, I never saw that little bit you screenshotted, but the information is not worded well and thus confusing, and talks about USB versions, not firmware versions. It was all just a confusing mess. And it isn't a clean cut downgrade; remember, the update _is _beneficial for those it's supposed to beneficial for, who're those that need better OTG compatibility. Unfortunately, even this update doesn't fix OTG compatibility for all phones, else I'd be happier with the update. However, even if that were fixed, I'm suspicious that the update introduced a pretty noticeable popping noise that comes up sporadically in single clicks. I don't remember it before, they aren't hard coded in the music after testing, and neither am I hearing them with my other DACs. I'm nearly sure this wasn't a problem beforehand, but I'm not going to firmly conclude anything yet.

Let's end this game for now, and hopefully you could even recognize the poor way SMSL handled this situation. I just happen to be the first one to expose it; if not me then someone else. Not being able to revert is bullshiit, and not including clear release notes next to the main download link isn't up to par. And don't tell me to expect as much from a lesser established hi-fi business from China. As someone with no business experience I wouldn't have ever considered handling the release of a firmware update in this way.

The link direct from SMSL's website I mentioned was taken down. I guess we'll see how things play out.


----------



## wushuliu

This is the risk for paying so little for the SMSL. Customer service costs money, and part of the bargain pricing from these cheaper brands is to not expect much, if anything beyond a 30 day return policy (if that).


----------



## TrantaLocked (Aug 12, 2017)

Their customer service is slow to respond, granted so is Massdrop's. I'm trying to arrange a replacement and it's just annoying what's been going on.

Thankfully the SMSL Idea itself is great, which is why I'm pursuing all of this. It's finally moved me to its sound signature over the Audioengine D3, making it the best mini-DAC i've personally heard.


----------



## DigitalCitizen (Aug 16, 2017)

On the Axon 7 the buzzing noise doesn't seem to go away when you set the usb mode to midi. It does work with UAPP though. Also when i set it to midi, it changes to charging, and i have to press midi again two or three times untill it actually changes what i selected.


----------



## niron (Aug 17, 2017)

DigitalCitizen said:


> On the Axon 7 the buzzing noise doesn't seem to go away when you set the usb mode to midi. It does work with UAPP though. Also when i set it to midi, it changes to charging, and i have to press midi again two or three times untill it actually changes what i selected.



When you change to Midi your audio app immediately pops up. Click the Play and see how it goes. When I do it on the HF Player it works like a charm.


----------



## Geraffe

Have you seen this? I am quite sure it is identical to the SMSL, but lower price https://www.amazon.com/Sabaj-Da2-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0719FMRKH/

I have checked, and specs are identical. And it is available from Amazon (US and UK).

I am receiving its balanced bigger brother tomorrow.


----------



## wwyjoe

Yes, the Sabaj Da2 circuit board also appears to be identical as the SMSL iDEA. Suspect they are from the same factory.

Good thing is the Sabaj is cheaper, though not sure if it also has the buzzing noise issue as the iDEA.


----------



## Geraffe (Aug 22, 2017)

Received the Sabaj`s bigger brother today, and it works great with my HTC A9, and no hum. Don`t know about iOS yet.


----------



## Makahl (Aug 22, 2017)

edit: nvm, misread a post.


----------



## niron

There's a newer version called the Sabaj Da3 and guess what? it has some issues with Android as well.


----------



## Geraffe

niron said:


> There's a newer version called the Sabaj Da3 and guess what? it has some issues with Android as well.



You know that from personal experience, or...? As I said, it works with my HTC A9.


----------



## Matias

So the Idea and Da2 are an OEM board and chassis being branded by different sellers? Interesting.
Note that the full price of Da2 is the same price that the Idea was on Massdrop.

Also wondering if Da2 has better Android support. If anyone tests this (a Da2 working with a phone that the Idea does not work) please let us know.


----------



## niron

Geraffe said:


> You know that from personal experience, or...? As I said, it works with my HTC A9.



Yeah, not mine but people who complained to me about it. And I was talking about the 3rd version not the 2nd one.


----------



## TrantaLocked (Aug 23, 2017)

Recently I've asked for a replacement SMSL Idea from massdrop since I was having problems with the USB 1.1 firmware update. One problem was that I was hearing a recurring popping noise during playback of all tested music. These noises would show up in random places in the stereo field every 5-15 seconds quite consistently.

In my initial testing of the newly arrived replacement, which has the original firmware (as all brand new SMSL ideas will), the new unit does not exhibit the popping noises, of course other than ones that are hard coded into the music itself. Things sound clean and as expected.

This is as close as I can get to showing proof that the USB 1.1 firmware update from SMSL may cause noticeable sound defects, described as recurring pop/click noises, during playback. It's possible my original idea was defective or became defective at a certain point for some other reason, but to my memory, the noises started happening right after I updated the firmware to USB 1.1. Therefore, I very strongly urge caution to those looking to update to the new firmware.


----------



## NCWong (Aug 24, 2017)

HI, I am new to Head-Fi.

I have used SMSL Idea DAC for my win10 tablet running foobar2000 with perfect results.

I also used it with my hTC E8 running Android 6 and Hiby Music player, with almost perfect results.
The only trouble is to use the native mode for the high resolution musics.  The red light is on to indicate the format, but it always produces big steady noise.
Changing the DSD setting of Hiby to the DOP mode makes the DAC mute.  But the PCM mode works just fine.

I changed my phone to hTC 10 last month.  The Idea DAC's background noise makes it useless, as everyone here.
I don't know if it is a problem with Android 7 or the type C USB.
Trying every way discussed in the internet gives no help.

Just a few hours ago, I checked Taobao and found a customer comment about this DAC at
https://world.taobao.com/item/548575555227.htm?fromSite=main&spm=a21m2.8232368.0.0.14e47277AQloha.

The customer shared a resolve about using this DAC with a Xiaomi 6 phone as follows.

1. Plug in the type C USB chord first, with the DAC unattached.
2. Open the Hiby Music player.
3. Turn off the exclusive mode (but I have no such mode in my hTC 10 or Hiby, so I act nothing in my case).
4. Play a music file.
5. Plug in the DAC, and enjoy.

I follow these hints, and there is no noise at all when playing with either HiBy or the Google Music Player in my hTC 10.

I can now set my hTC 10 to use the USB as MIDI, too.

But I do not see any message from Hiby Music player that about it using the DAC.
I did see this when I use it with my hTC E8.
There is no bad effect when I switch the DSD mode to PCM, DOP, or Native.
I can't hear of any difference, either.  The light on the DAC is always blue in all cases.
The output format from Hiby reports to be PCM 44kH/16bits.

I suspect that using the above resolve simply saves the amplifier function of the SMSL Idea.
But the phone does not use the DAC function of the Idea at all.
The music player decodes the music files (in mp3, flac, dff, dsd, ... formats) to PCM 44/16, and redirect the output to the
type C USB port, which might just act as a headphone jet.

Anyway, even so the advantage is still infinitely big, as now my SMSL Idea is usable.
The amplifier function of this small toy is excellent enough to admire.

I hope everything will be restored with the coming Android 8 upgrade.


----------



## wushuliu

Now there's a balanced version for under 100? I can't keep up. DACs are turning around too fast to even think about spending more than that these days. Sheesh.

Sabaj Da3 on the way...


----------



## Sito Lupion

Hi, I'm thinking of ordering one, someone to tested with android 5.0.1?
I have a tablet that does not work fiio e17k
I would be interested primarily in Goole Play Music ... I do not use UAPP

regards


----------



## tusing

Does anyone know if the IDEA supports line-level out (DAC-only mode?)?


----------



## NCWong (Aug 27, 2017)

Sito Lupion said:


> Hi, I'm thinking of ordering one, someone to tested with android 5.0.1?
> I have a tablet that does not work fiio e17k
> I would be interested primarily in Goole Play Music ... I do not use UAPP
> 
> regards



Yes, my SMSL iDea works with two of my Android 5 tablets, and my Android 6 smart phone (hTC E8).
But using Google Play Music in my tablets, only music files  in mp3 format can be found and played.  The app encodes the music files directly.
The DAC function of the iDea is not utilized at all.
The amplifier function works with no problem, though.
I don't know how other android devices work.

I use Hiby Music Player (the free version), which can also use the DAC functionality of iDEA (with PCM output) in the Android 5 and 6 systems.

By the way, in my Android 7 phone with USB type C, only the amplifier function can be used.
The iDEA is useless in my other Android 4.4 tablet.


----------



## snip3r77

wushuliu said:


> Now there's a balanced version for under 100? I can't keep up. DACs are turning around too fast to even think about spending more than that these days. Sheesh.
> 
> Sabaj Da3 on the way...



Sabaj DA3 is


Matias said:


> So the Idea and Da2 are an OEM board and chassis being branded by different sellers? Interesting.
> Note that the full price of Da2 is the same price that the Idea was on Massdrop.
> 
> Also wondering if Da2 has better Android support. If anyone tests this (a Da2 working with a phone that the Idea does not work) please let us know.


DA3 is quite bigger and this doesn't exist in SMSL's current catalog, not sure who Sabaj OEM from.


----------



## DjBobby

tusing said:


> Does anyone know if the IDEA supports line-level out (DAC-only mode?)?


Yes, you can use it, just turn the volume to the max. Archimago states 2V max. output, which is quite a standard.


----------



## Sito Lupion

NCWong said:


> Yes, my SMSL iDea works with two of my Android 5 tablets, and my Android 6 smart phone (hTC E8).
> But using Google Play Music in my tablets, only music files  in mp3 format can be found and played.  The app encodes the music files directly.
> The DAC function of the iDea is not utilized at all.
> The amplifier function works with no problem, though.
> ...



Thanks for your reply NCWong, I understand that you can not play GPM in HD in any DAC?


----------



## NCWong

Sito Lupion said:


> Thanks for your reply NCWong, I understand that you can not play GPM in HD in any DAC?



Indeed, I do not play with Google Play Music at all. 
Sorry not being very helpful.


----------



## stalepie

20 volume steps doesn't seem like enough. Can it also be controlled by Windows system volume?


----------



## dc655321

stalepie said:


> 20 volume steps doesn't seem like enough. Can it also be controlled by Windows system volume?



What are you driving with this?
Have you maxed out your player's volume and system volume?

For reference, I find 10 steps to be uncomfortably loud for my use (flc8s, mac os).


----------



## stalepie

dc655321 said:


> What are you driving with this?
> Have you maxed out your player's volume and system volume?
> 
> For reference, I find 10 steps to be uncomfortably loud for my use (flc8s, mac os).


I haven't used it. Just wondering as a prospective buyer. 

I don't mean "too loud" but not enough control


----------



## dc655321

stalepie said:


> I haven't used it. Just wondering as a prospective buyer.
> 
> I don't mean "too loud" but not enough control



Ah, got it.
I have not found the granularity of the volume steps to be a problem for me.
I would guess that each step is about 3-6 dB of volume change.
I usually listen anywhere from 4-8 or 9 steps.


----------



## Erdomatic

Hey - new member, first time poster, long time lurker. Thanks for being an endless source of great intel, everyone!

I purchased my iDEA from the recent Massdrop - and connecting to my late-2013 Macbook Pro running macos 10.12.6 via USB and my ATH-M50x into the miniplug I notice a distinct channel imbalance - left stereo channel is about 1dB higher than right. I manually adjusted left channel down using macos MIDI app...but obviously I shouldn't have to. I have tested the M50x's plugged directly into the laptop headphone jack - no channel imbalance, so it's something to do with the jack or headphone amp in the iDEA.

Can anyone shed any light on why this might be? Do I have a defective unit? Thank you!


----------



## DjBobby

Erdomatic said:


> Hey - new member, first time poster, long time lurker. Thanks for being an endless source of great intel, everyone!
> 
> I purchased my iDEA from the recent Massdrop - and connecting to my late-2013 Macbook Pro running macos 10.12.6 via USB and my ATH-M50x into the miniplug I notice a distinct channel imbalance - left stereo channel is about 1dB higher than right. I manually adjusted left channel down using macos MIDI app...but obviously I shouldn't have to. I have tested the M50x's plugged directly into the laptop headphone jack - no channel imbalance, so it's something to do with the jack or headphone amp in the iDEA.
> 
> Can anyone shed any light on why this might be? Do I have a defective unit? Thank you!


No channel imbalance on mine using latest MB Pro, tried with severals headphones. So I would guess you got a lemon, send it back and ask for a replacement.


----------



## Griffith (Sep 1, 2017)

Just received my iDEA today. I had slight moment of panic when I noticed a grey dot on what was otherwise an impeccable metal finish. I felt pretty stupid once I realised it was the LED cover.

Right now I'm listening to some Phill Collins songs and although I think Macbook Air is a competent audio source you can really tell a difference in the crispness of the small details. For example in Phill Collin's True Colors there's a bright percussive beat in the song's background which sounds nice and sharp on the iDEA but turns harsh and uncontrolled when listening directly from the Macbook's headphone jack.

Needless to say, I'm quite pleased. Given that I was coming from/upgrading from a Fiio E7, it's nice to see that it maintains a very neutral presentation with little, if any, coloration, similar to the Fiio.

Now... I really need to get better cables, these default ones work but they are driving me insane. Any recommendations for really short usb-to-micro-usb and micro-usb-to-usb-c?


----------



## raducutzu

Griffith said:


> Just received my iDEA today. I had slight moment of panic when I noticed a grey dot on what was otherwise an impeccable metal finish. I felt pretty stupid once I realised it was the LED cover.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to some Phill Collins songs and although I think Macbook Air is a competent audio source you can really tell a difference in the crispness of the small details. For example in Phill Collin's True Colors there's a bright percussive beat in the song's background which sounds nice and sharp on the iDEA but turns harsh and uncontrolled when listening directly from the Macbook's headphone jack.
> 
> ...


Yeah, the same thing here, I even tried to use my fingernails to clean it up, I was thinking they gave me a refurbished unit. Yeah, it happened to the best of us.


----------



## atmfrank

Griffith said:


> Just received my iDEA today. I had slight moment of panic when I noticed a grey dot on what was otherwise an impeccable metal finish. I felt pretty stupid once I realised it was the LED cover.
> 
> Right now I'm listening to some Phill Collins songs and although I think Macbook Air is a competent audio source you can really tell a difference in the crispness of the small details. For example in Phill Collin's True Colors there's a bright percussive beat in the song's background which sounds nice and sharp on the iDEA but turns harsh and uncontrolled when listening directly from the Macbook's headphone jack.
> 
> ...


tsoshofle


----------



## atmfrank

I took issue with the supplied cables as well. Found a very short and very flexible USB/micro adapter cables on Amazon. They are called EasyAcc (2 pack for $6.75) and work really well. For my Android to iDEA, I use a male USB-C to female USB adapter and the same pigtail cable.


----------



## TrantaLocked (Sep 2, 2017)

Now I'm suspicious that the popping noise I was talking about becomes progressively worse as you use the DAC. A couple weeks into using my replacement and I'm noticing a pop every now and then, whereas in my initial testing there wasn't a problem. 

The track I'm using for reference is "Survive" by Chelsea Wolfe. The song is great for this use and does contain many hard-coded pops that should be ignored.

Anyway, if things stay the same and/or get worse, I'll consider ditching the idea for something of equal or better SQ. I'll keep you all updated.


----------



## niron

Perhaps you should try with a different source.


----------



## Griffith

So after some struggle I managed to get my iDEA to work on my Xiaomi Mi5, but not in an ideal manner. To get them to "work" I need to open my music player, start playing music and then plug in the iDEA. As you can understand this is far from iDEAL. Not only is it far from ideal but for some reason, whenever any Android sounds come in with the iDEA plugged in they are at a considerably loud volume, much louder than my music is at.

I don't have that USB notification to be able to change the mode of operation when I plug in the iDEA and I honestly don't know what to do to make it work better, or, as I'd want it to. 

Any ideas/suggestions?

(I've tried going into developer mode and setting USB device on midi and audio source mode, neither seems to have any effect)


----------



## BunchOfAtoms

Griffith said:


> Not only is it far from ideal but for some reason, whenever any Android sounds come in with the iDEA plugged in they are at a considerably loud volume, much louder than my music is at.






If you have not already done so, you should lower your ring volume (or notification volume if it's uncoupled from ring volume in your current ROM). Media volume is the volume of your music.


----------



## Griffith (Sep 2, 2017)

BunchOfAtoms said:


> If you have not already done so, you should lower your ring volume (or notification volume if it's uncoupled from ring volume in your current ROM). Media volume is the volume of your music.



I tried doing that but it seems to stay applied even after I unplug the iDEA which is annoying.

On another note... how the heck is this little thing able to drive my Fostex T50RP Mk3?

My old Fiio E7 couldn't drive them to their fullest but this ridiculously small thing can drive them just fine. I think it might even render more detail on them than my desk dac/amp.


----------



## raducutzu

Griffith said:


> So after some struggle I managed to get my iDEA to work on my Xiaomi Mi5, but not in an ideal manner. To get them to "work" I need to open my music player, start playing music and then plug in the iDEA. As you can understand this is far from iDEAL. Not only is it far from ideal but for some reason, whenever any Android sounds come in with the iDEA plugged in they are at a considerably loud volume, much louder than my music is at.
> 
> I don't have that USB notification to be able to change the mode of operation when I plug in the iDEA and I honestly don't know what to do to make it work better, or, as I'd want it to.
> 
> ...



It looks like you´re going through the same process as I did, so please check

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smsl-idea-portable-dac-amp.851110/page-7#post-13641747

, if you haven`t already, it might be useful to you. Mine is a Redmi Note 2 running MIUI 8 6.8.4 on top of Android 5.0.2 LRX22G, so the options might be a little different.


----------



## wushuliu

So has anyone else gotten the Sabaj DA3?


----------



## Griffith

raducutzu said:


> It looks like you´re going through the same process as I did, so please check
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smsl-idea-portable-dac-amp.851110/page-7#post-13641747
> 
> , if you haven`t already, it might be useful to you. Mine is a Redmi Note 2 running MIUI 8 6.8.4 on top of Android 5.0.2 LRX22G, so the options might be a little different.



Thank you for the help  but it didn't work for me. I have the same option in my settings menu but I'm using Lineage OS so there might be some quirks.


----------



## Matias

Any experiences of the Idea paired with an AKG K7XX? Does it play somewhat near the headphone's full potential?


----------



## DjBobby

Matias said:


> Any experiences of the Idea paired with an AKG K7XX? Does it play somewhat near the headphone's full potential?


Just listened last night a K702 with the iDea. No problem powering them, it goes enough loud. Only the brightness of the sabre chip doesn't make happiest pairing with treble-pronounced AKG-s. It is very detailed sound with firm bass but somewhat piercing treble. Switching to Mojo with K702 brought immediate warmth. 
I would say iDea goes better with somewhat darker headphones. Especially with Senns, lifting their veil.


----------



## Saaki

How does the SMSL iDEA compare to the Dragonfly Red when it comes to the battery life (of the phone)?


----------



## AlwaysForward

Lower Mw so probably less draw


----------



## snip3r77

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-idea-dac-amp $70


----------



## Saaki

AlwaysForward said:


> Lower Mw so probably less draw



Awesome. I have a OnePlus One running a custom ROM which gets excellent battery life. I didn't notice much of a draw with the DFR I was trying. The SMSL iDEA looks pretty amazing for the price point and I found it just in time as I was just considering getting a DAC for portable use. So I guess the only bug its got for Android is the buzzing thing?


----------



## audirvana

Any experience driving m1060s with these ?


----------



## snip3r77

Is this dac bright ? What about bass ?


----------



## wushuliu

snip3r77 said:


> Is this dac bright ? What about bass ?



Bright compared to what? My bright may not be your bright. I use these with HD599s and think they make a great match.


----------



## wushuliu

And I think the DA3 is worth the extra $30...


----------



## atmfrank

I am using the DF Red and iDEA interchangeably with HD600's and Grado RS2e's. Both cans sound equally good on either DAC. Bass is well defined and neutral (which is should be). If the source material is more bass-heavy, both DAC's handle it equally well. Since the Grado Rs2e is already slightly on the brighter side (when compared the HD600), I cannot tell if the iDEA adds more brightness to it. The is nothing annoying about the iDEA, but instead, I had a lot of pleasing listening sessions (for about 1 month with iDEA). My sources: either G Music streams or local high-res 24/96+ FLAC/DSD material.


----------



## Makahl

wushuliu said:


> And I think the DA3 is worth the extra $30...



Could you please elaborate a bit more? I haven't any balanced earphone so in your opinion, the DA3's SE output has any improvement over da2 (idea)?


----------



## wushuliu

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-idea-dac-amp $70



Why bother when the Sabaj DA2 is the same bu cheaper?


Makahl said:


> Could you please elaborate a bit more? I haven't any balanced earphone so in your opinion, the DA3's SE output has any improvement over da2 (idea)?



Yes the DA3 sounds better to me in SE. Not a million times better, but $30 better? I think so. I use mine with desktop PC, IFI silencer/Defender + external power supply though.


----------



## snip3r77

wushuliu said:


> Why bother when the Sabaj DA2 is the same bu cheaper?
> 
> 
> Yes the DA3 sounds better to me in SE. Not a million times better, but $30 better? I think so. I use mine with desktop PC, IFI silencer/Defender + external power supply though.



SMSL is the originator. SABAJ OEMs from them?

Not nickle and dime-ing, but I think getting SMSL would be better IMHO


----------



## wushuliu

snip3r77 said:


> SMSL is the originator. SABAJ OEMs from them?
> 
> Not nickle and dime-ing, but I think getting SMSL would be better IMHO



SMSL doesn't make a DA3...


----------



## Ynot1 (Sep 15, 2017)

snip3r77 said:


> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/smsl-idea-dac-amp $70



I did not see MFi support. I was hoping Massdrop would do their magic. I suppose MFi is such that you can't just use a Fiio MFi supported device cable.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Has anyone tried the Sabaj DA2? Not only is it less expensive than the SMSL Idea, but it can be had in two days from Amazon. On the other hand, the Amazon page on the Idea says "Get it as soon as Oct. 11 - Nov. 1".


----------



## wushuliu

PlantsmanTX said:


> Has anyone tried the Sabaj DA2? Not only is it less expensive than the SMSL Idea, but it can be had in two days from Amazon. On the other hand, the Amazon page on the Idea says "Get it as soon as Oct. 11 - Nov. 1".



The DA2 is exactly the same as the Idea. Compared internal photos and they are identical. Just get the DA2.


----------



## Saaki

Is there any chance SMSL will release another firmware update, or is it more likely it will be stuck with the buzzing original software or the USB 1.1 "update"?


----------



## Matias

I would not count on it...


----------



## Saaki

Does everyone using the SMSL iDEA with Android need to use the work around where you start by playing the music first and use UAPP?


----------



## pbirkett

PlantsmanTX said:


> Has anyone tried the Sabaj DA2? Not only is it less expensive than the SMSL Idea, but it can be had in two days from Amazon. On the other hand, the Amazon page on the Idea says "Get it as soon as Oct. 11 - Nov. 1".


I've just received mine today. I bought it to use primarily with an iPad to see if it will improve the audio for using my Yamaha MT220s. I was going to get a DFR but this is so much cheaper and some people are saying it sounds better (well, the SMSL iDEA but then this is allegedly the same).

Initial impressions - feels flimsy.

Plugged into my S7 - buzzing noise - but I didn't buy it for that so not too concerned.

Plugged into an iPhone 5S at work and tried it and it seems to work fine but I only listened to 1 track. I can't tell whether its any better but I only have my Soundmagic ES18s with me at the moment, so I wasn't expecting to hear much difference anyway.

When I get back from work I'll give it a proper go and report back.


----------



## snip3r77

pbirkett said:


> I've just received mine today. I bought it to use primarily with an iPad to see if it will improve the audio for using my Yamaha MT220s. I was going to get a DFR but this is so much cheaper and some people are saying it sounds better (well, the SMSL iDEA but then this is allegedly the same).
> 
> Initial impressions - feels flimsy.
> 
> ...


Probably it should only be used via laptop or desktop USB.

Also based on my exp with DFR the usage of the original Apple converter is very important


----------



## pbirkett

snip3r77 said:


> Probably it should only be used via laptop or desktop USB.
> 
> Also based on my exp with DFR the usage of the original Apple converter is very important


I've got the Apple converter (that was nearly as much as the DAC!)

If it proves to sound no better, or gives me problems, then it'll go straight back.

Watch this space.


----------



## pbirkett (Sep 21, 2017)

So I'm just trying this out on the iPad now.

This thing is a bit of a bargain sounds wise. It gives the iPad a very noticeable boost. It sounds like a veil has been lifted, more detail and overall livelier more dynamic sound. Well worth £50 I'd have to say. I'm driving 47 ohm headphones that are a relatively easy drive so your mileage may vary with more demanding phones.

https://imgur.com/a/NZUNL


----------



## PlantsmanTX

That's what I was hoping to read. Thanks for the reply. I just got some Fiio EX1 earphones to replace the Audiofly AF56s that broke on me after four years, and I thought maybe I'd upgrade the Sandisk Clip Zip I bought along with it.


----------



## wwyjoe

Sorry for the noob question. So to get the iDea work with an iphone, I need to get the Apple Camera adapter together with the supplied micro usb cable?

A lightning to micro-usb cable for direct connection will not work?


----------



## DjBobby

wwyjoe said:


> Sorry for the noob question. So to get the iDea work with an iphone, I need to get the Apple Camera adapter together with the supplied micro usb cable?
> 
> A lightning to micro-usb cable for direct connection will not work?


If you use a mfi certified cable like FiiO's L19, it works.


----------



## pbirkett

Still happy with this. Must say though, not a replacement for a desktop, mains or proper rig. My DT990 Premium still sound much better with my Beresford Caiman II / Capella rig than the MT220 and Sabaj, but for £50 more than satisfied, definitely kicks the standard sound up the arse!


----------



## wushuliu

pbirkett said:


> Still happy with this. Must say though, not a replacement for a desktop, mains or proper rig. My DT990 Premium still sound much better with my Beresford Caiman II / Capella rig than the MT220 and Sabaj, but for £50 more than satisfied, definitely kicks the standard sound up the arse!



Are you talking via usb? Cause the Caiman still uses the Tenor chip for usb input, right?


----------



## pbirkett

wushuliu said:


> Are you talking via usb? Cause the Caiman still uses the Tenor chip for usb input, right?


Nope use a behringer uca202 as a "transport" as recommended by the guy who built the caiman


----------



## Leonccyiu

wushuliu said:


> Why bother when the Sabaj DA2 is the same bu cheaper?
> 
> 
> Yes the DA3 sounds better to me in SE. Not a million times better, but $30 better? I think so. I use mine with desktop PC, IFI silencer/Defender + external power supply though.



Since the DA3 has two DAC chips, how does the unbalanced output compare to the DA2? Do you think any future firmware updates by SMSL such as to remove the buzzing issue will also work on the DA2?


----------



## Sam Wayne

Hello,
Any SMSL X4 user here ? Does that DAC also has these same buzzing issue ?


----------



## Rocketval

Sam Wayne said:


> Hello,
> Any SMSL X4 user here ? Does that DAC also has these same buzzing issue ?



No problem here with SMSL X4.
I'm really satisfied of it.


----------



## Sam Wayne

Rocketval said:


> No problem here with SMSL X4.
> I'm really satisfied of it.


Have you used it with any android phone? How is the SQ?


----------



## Rocketval

Sam Wayne said:


> Have you used it with any android phone? How is the SQ?




Yes, I do  It sounds really good, definetely better than any portable devices I have at home and my macbook pro 13 too.
No problems with Android (UAPP, Poweramp). Not really good for high impedance headphones but perfect for in-ear.
I use it also with MacOS, Ubuntu and Windows w/o any issues.


----------



## Trisse

Hi! Im about to buy a portable dac and im leaning torwards the Sabaj DA2. Tho im debating if the DA3 is woth the extra 30 bucks. I wanna be able to use the dac with my android phone. Is that possible with the DA3?


----------



## Leonccyiu

Trisse said:


> Hi! Im about to buy a portable dac and im leaning torwards the Sabaj DA2. Tho im debating if the DA3 is woth the extra 30 bucks. I wanna be able to use the dac with my android phone. Is that possible with the DA3?



It should be possible but because there are two DACs and amps in the da3, power consumption is likely considerably higher and your phone might not support that or battery life will be shorter


----------



## Sebilion

I just got the da2. It is overall a very good device but I have few issues with it. I mainly use it for my Samsung note 8. Every time I plug it in, it has this annoying buzzing noise. It goes away when I try to change the charging USB to Midi. Although this seems to work fine, few seconds after it goes back to charging and this eats up my battery really quickly. If you have earphones with in-line mic, you have to know that you won't be able to you use those functions. It only works for the music player.


----------



## azif

Has anyone tried the Sabaj DA3 yet?


----------



## pbirkett

I’ve now been using the Sabaj DA2 (same as iDEA) for several weeks now.

I have to say it does a good job for the £50 or so it cost. It does seem to noticeably lift the sound to a level above what the headphone jacks on typical mobile devices, and removes a good bit of the veil and provides better dynamics and a little more detail. It’s good enough in conjunction with my MT220s to use instead of my main desktop rig which is that better again, but it’s quite close really in terms of enjoyment.

A few things I’ve noticed which has probably been brought up already. It works fine on the iPad but it has a weird habit of pausing the music randomly, which unfortunately I have been unable to resolve and makes the iPad for me unusable as a primary listening device. This is particularly annoying after paying £30 for an adapter to make it fit.

On my s7 edge it again works fine, but you do have to play the music first before plugging the DA2 or you simply get buzzing. Sometimes it takes more than one attempt. However, once it locks on, it’s perfect.

It works flawlessly on my MacBook Air, so far as I can tell (I say that because I’ve only had the Mac a few days and it’s already faulty so I’m having to send it back). Just select the sound device from the volume menu and off you go.


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> If you use a mfi certified cable like FiiO's L19, it works.



Is mfi a must or would something like the below work?
It appears that it does the same thing as an l19 cable

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N77VPS3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZNn5zbNA72382


----------



## ModestMase (Oct 16, 2017)

I'm looking for a super portable DAC for my pinnacle P1's through my S7. It's too soon to replace it with a V30 and the internal amp isn't even close to enough juice for me.

Is this my best option? How much improvement will I see over the X4? Is it worth the small price bump of the da2 to put up with the annoying buzz and workaround every time you want to listen to music?

With the S7 if you plug in and change the USB option to midi thru developer settings, does it remember that option? Or does it continue to have the buzzing issue?


----------



## pbirkett

That setting didn't make a difference for me.


----------



## DjBobby

DJRSP said:


> Is mfi a must or would something like the below work?
> It appears that it does the same thing as an l19 cable
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N77VPS3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_ZNn5zbNA72382


Unfortunately a must. I am left with a bunch of good looking non-mfi cables, which turned unusable after the latest iOS updates.


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> Unfortunately a must. I am left with a bunch of good looking non-mfi cables, which turned unusable after the latest iOS updates.



that is terrible.
I don't know what the solution is if there aren't any cables available that provide mfi certification.
I saw a cable made by cozoy  which is much too short.
I liked the cable I found on amazon because the housing around the connector wasn't big so it could fit into an iphone with a case

Anyone know of a solution which has the mfi certification?


----------



## DJRSP

Bump: anyone know of an mfi certified lightning to micro usb cable that is available now?


----------



## DjBobby

DJRSP said:


> Bump: anyone know of an mfi certified lightning to micro usb cable that is available now?


The only one around: https://www.amazon.co.uk/FiiO-L19-Lightning-Digital-Audio/dp/B01GOTDMGY
I have 2 of them, and they work 100%.


----------



## azif

Ended up buying the sabaj da3. Sounds pretty good from my computer. Waiting on OTG cables.

The headphone amp is powering my t50rps louder than I can listen to them at


----------



## madmissileer

I purchased the Sabaj DA-1, which I assume is equivalent to the SMSL X4, being so similar looking.

I can't quite get it to work with my Android phone (Nexus 5X on Android 8.0). The strange thing is, it works for a few seconds when I plug it in, but after that the audio cuts out.

I tried using it on another device (Nvidia Shield on Android 7.0) and it actually works perfectly fine. And my older Fiio E07K has no problem with the Nexus 5X. What do you think the issue could be? I've tried changing USB mode to MIDI on the phone, plugging it in while music is playing, etc. and it doesn't seem to work.

I suspect some kind of bug is going on in the software, as it does get recognized for a few fleeting moments.


----------



## Trisse

madmissileer said:


> I purchased the Sabaj DA-1, which I assume is equivalent to the SMSL X4, being so similar looking.
> 
> I can't quite get it to work with my Android phone (Nexus 5X on Android 8.0). The strange thing is, it works for a few seconds when I plug it in, but after that the audio cuts out.
> 
> ...



Try plugging in the usb cable without the dac. Then start the music and when the music is playing plug in the dac to the usb cable. Thats how i got my Da2 to work. Or you can try UAPP


----------



## madmissileer

Trisse said:


> Try plugging in the usb cable without the dac. Then start the music and when the music is playing plug in the dac to the usb cable. Thats how i got my Da2 to work. Or you can try UAPP



Hmm, it seems that I resolved the issue. It was a cable problem, though I don't know much more than that.

For record, this is the cable that didn't work: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071SJ8S75/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

After finding another combination of cables the DA-1 works fine.


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> Unfortunately a must. I am left with a bunch of good looking non-mfi cables, which turned unusable after the latest iOS updates.



Bought the official Apple Micro USB to Lightning adapter to use with the included micro usb male to male cable, and it STILL didn't work. All the goddamn cables in the world and not a single official lightning to micro usb cable?
Blows my mind


----------



## DjBobby

DJRSP said:


> Bought the official Apple Micro USB to Lightning adapter to use with the included micro usb male to male cable, and it STILL didn't work. All the goddamn cables in the world and not a single official lightning to micro usb cable?
> Blows my mind


Strange...just checked mine, works fine with iPhone 7, iPad Air2 and iPad Pro. If you are sure you got the original Apple cable, must be a problem with your iDea. Maybe you got a lemon.


----------



## azif

DJRSP said:


> Bought the official Apple Micro USB to Lightning adapter to use with the included micro usb male to male cable, and it STILL didn't work. All the goddamn cables in the world and not a single official lightning to micro usb cable?
> Blows my mind


Thought you need the camera kit


----------



## DjBobby

azif said:


> Thought you need the camera kit


Not the camera kit, but lightning to USB camera adapter: 
https://www.amazon.com/Lightning-to...34815&sr=8-3&keywords=lightning+to+usb+camera


----------



## pkkaou

Hello. Does the buzz noise still happen when connect to usb type-c ? I'm looking for budget dac for using with Xiaomi Mi6 and laptop. Should I take Sabaj D2 ? Thank you.


----------



## PlantsmanTX (Oct 25, 2017)

pkkaou said:


> Hello. Does the buzz noise still happen when connect to usb type-c ? I'm looking for budget dac for using with Xiaomi Mi6 and laptop. Should I take Sabaj D2 ? Thank you.



The buzzing is only a problem with Android and Linux. You shouldn't have a problem with the laptop, assuming you're running Windows on it.


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> Strange...just checked mine, works fine with iPhone 7, iPad Air2 and iPad Pro. If you are sure you got the original Apple cable, must be a problem with your iDea. Maybe you got a lemon.



didn't buy the camera kit but I bought this 
https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Micro-...997&sr=1-1&keywords=apple+lightning+micro+usb

that didn't work
now going to get the camera kit
Idea works with all other USB devices except iPhone so must be a factor of the lightning connection


----------



## JonnyTech

So, not too long ago I picked up the smsl idea to drive my HD598s when connected to my phone. It does a great job of doing just that. Significant increase in clarity with an expanded sound stage. So exactly what I expected. 

Then last night I popped over to Massdrop, saw the idea for sale, and clicked on it. Taking a look through the specs I was reminded that it boasts being able to push 300ohm headphones. Turns out I have a pair of those in the form of the HD800s. So I plugged em up, turned on some music and began bringing up the volume. Ofcourse it sounded better than my 598s. This was never a comparison test for that. Where I did compare was on volume. Turns out that while the smsl idea drives the 598 down a back stretch at 150mph, it drives the 800 like a leisurely commute at best. So if you plan to plug anything in with these sort of needs, don't.


----------



## pkkaou

Thanks bro. Any suggestion for budget DAC/AMP for Android/PC?


----------



## PlantsmanTX

pkkaou said:


> Thanks bro. Any suggestion for budget DAC/AMP for Android/PC?



I can't remember whether or not anyone on this thread stated that the Sabaj version had the same buzzing problem, but a commenter on the Archimago blogpost did- "I have the same problems with the buzzing sound with the Sabaj Da2 on my android LG G5...".
I've seen some other DAC/amps with the same form factor selling for around $100, like the Centrance DACport Slim and the Dragonfly Black 1.5. If you don't mind something that is bigger than a USB dongle but still portable, you might look into the Fiio Q1 Mk II.


----------



## JonnyTech

At under $70 (current massdrop price is $69.99), the smsl idea is a really good deal. It just isn't going to push quite what it claims.


----------



## DJRSP

JonnyTech said:


> So, not too long ago I picked up the smsl idea to drive my HD598s when connected to my phone. It does a great job of doing just that. Significant increase in clarity with an expanded sound stage. So exactly what I expected.
> 
> Then last night I popped over to Massdrop, saw the idea for sale, and clicked on it. Taking a look through the specs I was reminded that it boasts being able to push 300ohm headphones. Turns out I have a pair of those in the form of the HD800s. So I plugged em up, turned on some music and began bringing up the volume. Ofcourse it sounded better than my 598s. This was never a comparison test for that. Where I did compare was on volume. Turns out that while the smsl idea drives the 598 down a back stretch at 150mph, it drives the 800 like a leisurely commute at best. So if you plan to plug anything in with these sort of needs, don't.




I just got the lightning to USB Camera kit. I have the same issue driving my 558s or even some 16 ohm earbuds. 
Have the volume of the SMSL Idea turned all the way up. 
However, it takes me getting up to 50% of my iPhone volume to hear literally anything.
Than from 50% to 100% the volume jumps exponentially.

This only happens with my iPhone not on a computer.
Is this normal?

Is the iDEA just not meant to be paired with phones? Getting this thing to work (As good as it does sound) has been a pain in the ass


----------



## JonnyTech

DJRSP said:


> I just got the lightning to USB Camera kit. I have the same issue driving my 558s or even some 16 ohm earbuds.
> Have the volume of the SMSL Idea turned all the way up.
> However, it takes me getting up to 50% of my iPhone volume to hear literally anything.
> Than from 50% to 100% the volume jumps exponentially.
> ...



You need the usb downgrade to 1.2 to fix the phone issue.


----------



## DJRSP

JonnyTech said:


> You need the usb downgrade to 1.2 to fix the phone issue.


Well crap. It says we have to request it from them for a downgrade? 
I am searching this thread but  can't seem to find anyone posting the file, would you happen to have the firmware downgrade handy by any chance and willing to share?
Much appreciated


----------



## NonXtreme

DJRSP said:


> Well crap. It says we have to request it from them for a downgrade?
> I am searching this thread but  can't seem to find anyone posting the file, would you happen to have the firmware downgrade handy by any chance and willing to share?
> Much appreciated



Don't downgrade it. Someone have done it and it turned to crap. It's also not reversible.

Also you are suppose to put your phone/computer volume to 100% and control volume from the dac/amp itself.


----------



## Damikiller37 (Oct 28, 2017)

So reading through the forums for an inexpensive DAC/AMP units I've landed here and were really close to ordering the SMSL Idea and then found out that it costs £73.99 compared to Sabaj DA2 for £49.99 which appears to be the same thing in a different shell. So I ordered that on Amazon and should be with me on Tuesday  I thought about the Sabaj DA3 but I don't really need the extras that come with it over the DA2 and it costs £74.99. I'm planning to use it with my Fidelio X2s. Long overdue upgrade over my average on-board which I'm sure got worse with time. I will probably use it exclusively with my PC but might try it with my HTC One M8 to see if I have issues with it at all there. I'll drop a post with some photos of the packaging and the unit here since I can't seem to find many of them around the web; might be handy for someone looking into it. If I get a hand on the right screwdriver I'll open it up and take photos to confirm the board being same as SMSL Idea.

Update: Turns out Amazon upgraded my delivery and it's coming tomorrow  Got to love Prime!


----------



## PlantsmanTX

DJRSP said:


> Well crap. It says we have to request it from them for a downgrade?
> I am searching this thread but  can't seem to find anyone posting the file, would you happen to have the firmware downgrade handy by any chance and willing to share?
> Much appreciated



Yes, it was posted on this thread:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B81LDYcWypQNOTI5djlkZzNoa2M

But if I'm not mistaken, it only takes care of the Android/Linux buzzing issue.


----------



## DJRSP

NonXtreme said:


> Don't downgrade it. Someone have done it and it turned to crap. It's also not reversible.
> 
> Also you are suppose to put your phone/computer volume to 100% and control volume from the dac/amp itself.



I have never heard of keeping a device volume at a 100% and uising the tactile buttons on the amp as a must. 
And it seem 



PlantsmanTX said:


> Yes, it was posted on this thread:
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B81LDYcWypQNOTI5djlkZzNoa2M
> 
> But if I'm not mistaken, it only takes care of the Android/Linux buzzing issue.



So the downgrade doesn't solve the volume exponentially rising past 50% issue?
getting confused here, are these opinions or facts?

Also there is a new driver update on the SMSL website. Does anyone have feedback on that update and if it solves the mentioned issues.

http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=133


Thanks


----------



## azif

Got the apple camera kit now for my Sabaj da3, can't turn it up over 20ish on iphone without getting power warning, ipad gets to 25ish before a insufficient power warning


----------



## Thor71

DJRSP said:


> I just got the lightning to USB Camera kit. I have the same issue driving my 558s or even some 16 ohm earbuds.
> Have the volume of the SMSL Idea turned all the way up.
> However, it takes me getting up to 50% of my iPhone volume to hear literally anything.
> Than from 50% to 100% the volume jumps exponentially.
> ...


Don't downgrade, it's only for Android users that are having issues.  SMSL Idea with Apple cck2 works fine with my iPhone 6s. Did you put the volume of your phone 100%?


----------



## JonnyTech

Thor71 said:


> Don't downgrade, it's only for Android users that are having issues.  SMSL Idea with Apple cck2 works fine with my iPhone 6s. Did you put the volume of your phone 100%?


I only use it with my phone, so I did not know it adversely effected using it with other devices.


----------



## Damikiller37

Got my Sabaj Da2 yesterday and got it all set up. First of all, WOW this thing is tiny I didn't quite notice it from the pictures but that's not a bad thing at all. It is plug and play; Windows 10 got USB Audio 2.0 drivers for it straight away. These are the options I have with those drivers:




Not going to comment too much on audio since I'll need more time with it but it definitely is a huge improvement over my on-board; drives my Fidelio X2s to insane volume with no distortion and just sounds better overall.

If you look at the packaging in the photo link below and compare it to the ones in Archimago's review of the SMSL Idea, it's literally all the same but with the branding changed. This unit comes with 3 short cables: full size USB to USB Micro, USB Micro to USB Micro and USB C to USB Micro. So again the same as Idea and they are the same cables. The unit also has the buttons, LED, and ports in the same spot. I would take it apart but I don't have a screwdriver that tiny. Also when I looked at the drivers both SMSL and Sabaj offer for these units they are exactly the same as well. I tried installing the XMOS driver and that would give me access to the usual frequencies up to 192000Hz in all the bit up to 32 but no frequencies above. I couldn't be bothered to mess around so I just uninstalled the XMOS driver since I didn't really hear any difference and the Microsoft one is just fine.

Also tried using the Sabaj with my HTC One M8 and it works fine. No random hissing or anything. Seems to deliver the same amount of power as my PC. Tried my X2s and KZ ZS5s with it. Not sure about the battery drain but I this unit for my PC so I probably won't test that.

Here's the rest of the photos including the two above: https://imgur.com/a/0dIfP

I got this unit directly from Sabaj on Amazon UK for £49.99: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0719FMRKH/   compared to the SMSL Idea which is £72.99 on Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B073W4DSVH/

So you might as well grab the Sabaj or whatever happens to be cheaper for you


----------



## pbirkett

Nice little review there. I've been using mine out of my Mac for a good few weeks now. Only thing I can criticise is mine feels flimsy and not sure how long it will last but otherwise no complaints at all with the sound and power output, although I wouldn't rely on it for power hungry headphones is all.


----------



## Damikiller37

pbirkett said:


> Nice little review there. I've been using mine out of my Mac for a good few weeks now. Only thing I can criticise is mine feels flimsy and not sure how long it will last but otherwise no complaints at all with the sound and power output, although I wouldn't rely on it for power hungry headphones is all.


So far the build for me seems fine. The unit is solid, all ports hold nice and tight. I guess the buttons could be a little more tactile but nothing too bad. As for power hungry headphones you are likely right. X2s are 32 Ohm so I'm not surprised it can power them no problem


----------



## pbirkett

Damikiller37 said:


> So far the build for me seems fine. The unit is solid, all ports hold nice and tight. I guess the buttons could be a little more tactile but nothing too bad. As for power hungry headphones you are likely right. X2s are 32 Ohm so I'm not surprised it can power them no problem



Wish mine was, the tiny screws at the headphone end aren’t tight enough. I’ve tried tightening them up with the smallest screwdriver I have, which just about fits, but they’ve just come loose again.


----------



## pkkaou

No buzz noise with Android phone ?  Wow, interesting. May be I should get one though.


----------



## Matias

It depends on your mobile phone model: some Androids work flawlessly, others with workarounds, others no way at all (such as mine...).


----------



## pkkaou

I'm using Xiaomi Mi6 ,can powering ext.hdd with no problems. Maybe it can use flawlessly.


----------



## Damikiller37

The only issue I had with it is that if I try to use VIPER4Android FX, the USB/Dock options seemed to have no effect on the Sabaj. Not sure if I have the latest version of VIPER4Android FX so might be something to do with that. Also I'm on a custom ROM (Cypher OS; currently on a beta until they get Oreo for it) so that could be why I have no problems with buzzing and why my VIPER4Android FX isn't detecting the Sabaj.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Damikiller37 said:


> Got my Sabaj Da2 yesterday and got it all set up. First of all, WOW this thing is tiny I didn't quite notice it from the pictures but that's not a bad thing at all. It is plug and play; Windows 10 got USB Audio 2.0 drivers for it straight away. These are the options I have with those drivers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How the Da2 paired with your Zs5? sound quality? my one is Zs5 v1...How the Da2 paired with your Zs5? sound quality? my one is Zs5 v1...

Interested to buy Da2/Idea and hope it will work with Huawei mate 9 pro..as i'm using Fiio K1 without any issue..Hopefully a good upgrade from fiio K1 in term of sound quality. looking forward to use mostly with phone. please advise if anyone has similar setups.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Damikiller37

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> How the Da2 paired with your Zs5? sound quality? my one is Zs5 v1...How the Da2 paired with your Zs5? sound quality? my one is Zs5 v1...
> 
> Interested to buy Da2/Idea and hope it will work with Huawei mate 9 pro..as i'm using Fiio K1 without any issue..Hopefully a good upgrade from fiio K1 in term of sound quality. looking forward to use mostly with phone. please advise if anyone has similar setups.
> 
> Thanks in advance


I've literally listened to the ZS5s on the Da2 for like 10 mins so I'll need some more time with them. Kinda sucks since I'm used to having my ZS5s go through VIPER4Android FX and it doesn't seem to work on the Da2. I have the v1s as well; using medium SpinFit tips. Give me a couple of days, I'll give it a good listen and let you know what it's like


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> Unfortunately a must. I am left with a bunch of good looking non-mfi cables, which turned unusable after the latest iOS updates.



Hey Bobby,

When using the IDEA with you iOS devices, are you getting the volume spike issues?
or did you happen to have a solution for it?
Others suggestions here about a USB downgrade are misleading.

Thanks


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Damikiller37 said:


> I've literally listened to the ZS5s on the Da2 for like 10 mins so I'll need some more time with them. Kinda sucks since I'm used to having my ZS5s go through VIPER4Android FX and it doesn't seem to work on the Da2. I have the v1s as well; using medium SpinFit tips. Give me a couple of days, I'll give it a good listen and let you know what it's like



Can you confirm that whether da2 works with spotify or tidal streaming service in android phone that you use?
also in youtube?
coz i'm concern about the compatibility issues of Da2/Idea in android..


----------



## Hal Rockwell

pbirkett said:


> Wish mine was, the tiny screws at the headphone end aren’t tight enough. I’ve tried tightening them up with the smallest screwdriver I have, which just about fits, but they’ve just come loose again.



Maybe you should put a drop of Loctite in the screw hole before you tighten it.



Damikiller37 said:


> The only issue I had with it is that if I try to use VIPER4Android FX, the USB/Dock options seemed to have no effect on the Sabaj. Not sure if I have the latest version of VIPER4Android FX so might be something to do with that. Also I'm on a custom ROM (Cypher OS; currently on a beta until they get Oreo for it) so that could be why I have no problems with buzzing and why my VIPER4Android FX isn't detecting the Sabaj.



I have a couple of different models from different brands of those tiny DACs, and viper4android seems to have no affect on any of them.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman (Oct 31, 2017)

pbirkett said:


> I’ve now been using the Sabaj DA2 (same as iDEA) for several weeks now.
> 
> I have to say it does a good job for the £50 or so it cost. It does seem to noticeably lift the sound to a level above what the headphone jacks on typical mobile devices, and removes a good bit of the veil and provides better dynamics and a little more detail. It’s good enough in conjunction with my MT220s to use instead of my main desktop rig which is that better again, but it’s quite close really in terms of enjoyment.
> 
> ...





Trisse said:


> Try plugging in the usb cable without the dac. Then start the music and when the music is playing plug in the dac to the usb cable. Thats how i got my Da2 to work. Or you can try UAPP



using this trick..does da2 work on spotify/tidal streaming and youtube app? on android phone? please confirm..thanks


----------



## Trisse

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> using this trick..does da2 work on spotify/tidal streaming and youtube app? on android phone? please confirm..thanks


Yep I can confirm it works with tidal. Tho I'm mostly using tidal though UAPP.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Trisse said:


> Yep I can confirm it works with tidal. Tho I'm mostly using tidal though UAPP.


what android phone you r using bro? can you recommend Da2/Idea over fiio k1 as a good upgrade in term of sound quality..


----------



## Trisse (Oct 31, 2017)

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> what android phone you r using bro? can you recommend Da2/Idea over fiio k1 as a good upgrade in term of sound quality..


Nokia 8 with oreo beta. Had Android 7.1 before. Works with my Samsung s6 edge too using the top I described earlier. Yeah it is a good sound upgrade. I have even tried it with my dt880 250ohm and i think it works ok.

It was my laptop Lenovo z50- 70 that got the biggest sound upgrade from the da2. The output from the laptop is unlistenable but with the da2 it sounds really good.

I use the da2 to drive my kz kz6, zs5 and tennmak pro. I think it works really good with the zs5.

When I got my zs5 I could only use it with my desktop computer with Asus xonar stx. They sounded so much better then on my Samsung.

I have always thought the Samsung s6 have such low output volume.

Edit: tried it with Spotify and it works like a charm.

I have also notice that I don't get the buzzing bug after upgrading to Android oreo. I still need to use the cable trick but if I don't I just don't get any sound at all. Before I got the buzzing bug


----------



## DjBobby (Oct 31, 2017)

DJRSP said:


> Hey Bobby,
> 
> When using the IDEA with you iOS devices, are you getting the volume spike issues?
> or did you happen to have a solution for it?
> ...


Not quite sure what do you mean about spike issues. I have absolutely no problem, using it mostly with Tidal. Just be sure that the volume on the iPhone is on max (to send full bit depth) and use the volume control on the iDea. Which iOS apps are you using?


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Trisse said:


> Nokia 8 with oreo beta. Had Android 7.1 before. Works with my Samsung s6 edge too using the top I described earlier. Yeah it is a good sound upgrade. I have even tried it with my dt880 250ohm and i think it works ok.
> 
> It was my laptop Lenovo z50- 70 that got the biggest sound upgrade from the da2. The output from the laptop is unlistenable but with the da2 it sounds really good.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for your information and i was eagerly waited for such response from you as i'm going to use it with my zs5 V1 as well..
going to order now..thanks .


----------



## hakuzen

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> Thank you so much for your information and i was eagerly waited for such response from you as i'm going to use it with my zs5 V1 as well..
> going to order now..thanks .


i'm going to measure iDEA (just arrived my replacement unit) output when paired to ZS5 v1, to check if it has enough power to reach a decent sound level with minimal distortion, in next hours. so you could hold on a bit


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

hakuzen said:


> i'm going to measure iDEA (just arrived my replacement unit) output when paired to ZS5 v1, to check if it has enough power to reach a decent sound level with minimal distortion, in next hours. so you could hold on a bit


that would be great..yes i can hold...thanks for your support..


----------



## Damikiller37

MD Alimur Rahman said:


> Can you confirm that whether da2 works with spotify or tidal streaming service in android phone that you use?
> also in youtube?
> coz i'm concern about the compatibility issues of Da2/Idea in android..


Volumes I tested at:
Windows Volume 100%
Spotify Volume 100%
Sabaj Da2 Volume 14/22(? That's what I counted)

Phone/Spotify Volume 100%
Sabaj Da2 Volume 14/22(? That's what I counted)

In both situation it sounds crystal clear no distortion even though it is starting to get painfully loud. I do have to say the Sabaj makes the ZS5s sing beautifully. Since I can't get Viper4Android to work through the USB I just turned it off and compared it straight through my phone (HTC One M8) then through the Sabaj.

As you can see above the Sabaj gets enough power from my phone to drive the ZS5s hence why I say 14 is pretty much the highest comfortable volume I would listen to for a few minutes. I feel like the Sabaj tapers off the highs a little making them more comfortable at high volume yet I personally still think the highs are a little much sometimes. It also makes the bass warmer. The whole range just feels enhanced. Obviously take this with a grain of salt since I'm comparing it to my phone and your experience might differ.

Songs tested with (All on Spotify):
Radiohead - Lucky (Remastered)
Petit Biscuit - Gravitation
Foo Fighters - Run
Metrik - We Got It S.P.Y Remix
Dimmi - No One Can
Liam Gallagher - For What It's Worth
Frank Sinatra/Luis Miguel - Come Fly With Me (Duets 20th Anniversary Deluxe Edition)
Alt-J - 3WW
Gesaffelstein - Viol


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Damikiller37 said:


> Volumes I tested at:
> Windows Volume 100%
> Spotify Volume 100%
> Sabaj Da2 Volume 14/22(? That's what I counted)
> ...



Thanks for the input...very detail and clear..


----------



## hakuzen

*Some samples of sources (no coupling caps, low output impedance) power pairing with KZ ZS5 v1*

(note: voltage and current are RMS; dB are SPL, except in graphs)
reminding ZS5 v1 and ZS6 impedance and sensitivity..
ZS5 v1 (4.8Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: ~122 dB/V (99 dB/mW).
ZS6 (14.3Ω @ 1kHz). sensitivity: ~127 dB/V (109 dB/mW).

*
Benjie S5* (DAP)
Volume steps: 30
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 10 / 25mV / 5.20mA / 90dB peak  
ZS6: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 15 / 78mV / 5.38mA / 105dB peak . 


*JDS Labs C5D* (USB DAC+amp / amp)
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: 117mV / 24.4mA / 103dB peak  
ZS6:  

*
SMSL iDEA* (USB DAC+amp)
Volume steps: ~20 (2.5dB/step, except first steps) .
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: ~14 / 257mV / 53.6mA / 110dB peak 
ZS6: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: ~17 / 618mV / 43.2mA / 123dB peak 

*
xDuoo X3* (DAP, rockbox)
ZS5 v1: maximum volume setting with "low" distortion: ~75% / 310mV / 64.6mA / 112dB peak 
ZS6: 


Considering this info, many sources provide enough power with low distortion to drive ZS5 v1.
The only ones which can't drive them properly are cheap DAPs like Benjie, or many smartphones, or weak amplifiers (and they are just fair with ZS6).
JDS Labs C5D can reach acceptable sound level (~103dB peak, let's say 90dB), but not enough if you like very loud volume.
SMSL iDEA / Sabaj Da2, and XDuoo X3, don't have any problem to drive ZS5 v1.


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> Not quite sure what do you mean about spike issues. I have absolutely no problem, using it mostly with Tidal. Just be sure that the volume on the iPhone is on max (to send full bit depth) and use the volume control on the iDea. Which iOS apps are you using?



You sort of spoke on it here. Its the fact that IDEA volume has to be at Max, and the iPhone volume has to be at about 65-70% before hearing any real output. 
If I hit volume up on the iPhone to get it from 70-80%, the volume gets very loud, and than if I hit it 2 more times to take it from 80 to 100%, obviously the volume is extremely loud and unmanageable. 
What i'm trying to say is that I really don't hear anything unless the volume is past 70% on the iPhone.

Now I know the IDEA is not defective because when I run through this same exercise with my macbook pro or Windows PC, I don't have to max out my volume on either device, and can adjust the volume minimally on either the IDEA or the PC and still hear a comfortable volume output.

With the iPhone however, the volume is so quiet until I get to the last 4 clicks, and there is basically only one volume setting that is comfortable (60%) where I can listen comfortably.
This ruins the point of having a DAC for me. I have the Kinera H3's coming in soon and was looking forward to using the IDEA to power them, but if its going to be a pain in the ass than I might as well return it. 

Is there some software/firmware upgrading/downgrading that you did to solve any of these issues? 
Or did you not have this issue


----------



## DjBobby

DJRSP said:


> You sort of spoke on it here. Its the fact that IDEA volume has to be at Max, and the iPhone volume has to be at about 65-70% before hearing any real output.
> If I hit volume up on the iPhone to get it from 70-80%, the volume gets very loud, and than if I hit it 2 more times to take it from 80 to 100%, obviously the volume is extremely loud and unmanageable.
> What i'm trying to say is that I really don't hear anything unless the volume is past 70% on the iPhone.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about line out or using it with a headphones? Also through which app? I'll repeat the same settings/conditions and let you know the results I get.


----------



## DJRSP

DjBobby said:


> Are you talking about line out or using it with a headphones? Also through which app? I'll repeat the same settings/conditions and let you know the results I get.



Using it with headphones.
iPhone App I am testing with are spotify/youtube (both with volume at max)

on macbook , using spotify


----------



## TrantaLocked (Nov 2, 2017)

Just coming back to update my static noise problems with the SMSL idea. It seems source has main part in the matter, as I get occasional static popping noises with my desktop but not my laptop. Not sure if software or hardware problem or a combination of the two. Just know that this doesn't happen with any of my other dacs, so even though it isn't guaranteed it still is kinda bad it even happens with my desktop every now and then. Sometimes it doesn't even happen for an entire session with my desktop so I don't really know what to say about what's causing the issue.


----------



## DjBobby

DJRSP said:


> Using it with headphones.
> iPhone App I am testing with are spotify/youtube (both with volume at max)
> 
> on macbook , using spotify


When you first connect iDea, it's volume level is automatically set around middle, from there you can go up and down. If you are using it for line out to connect it to active speakers or a preamp, you have to max the volume, to get stable 2V output. This is valid for any other dac with volume control using as line out. 

If you are using it for the headphones out, then you have to turn the volume on the source to max, and control the loudness on iDea. It means using it with Spotify on iPhone, you have to max iPhone volume and than you have 20 steps to control on iDea itself. The same is valid for using it with laptop, desktop etc. Now if I understood you well, you tried to max the volume on iDea and wanted to control it through iPhone, which is not good idea. You are right, in this case you have to hit the volume almost to 70% to hear anything, and than it jumps suddenly to very loud. This is true with every dac used this way with iPhone, I can confirm that it also happens with plenty of my other dacs. 
Now your question is, but why does it not happen when using it with a Macbook or PC? Because Macbook or PC output the signal with 24 or 32 bits, iPhone with only 16 bits. 
16 bit audio: 65,536 possible levels
24 bit audio: 16,777,216 possible levels
32 bit audio: 4,294,967,296 possible levels

In my case I am using Tidal on MacBook Pro, the signal is upscaled to 32 bits and then fed to the dac. 
So, the problem is not in the dac itself, but in iPhone's 16 bits limited output. You will get more or less same results with any external dac. 
Long story short: when using iPhone with an external dac, alway max the volume on the iPhone, and control it on the iDea. I hope this helps.


----------



## pkkaou

Ordered Sabaj DA2 , I will update the result here , pair with Xiaomi Mi6.


----------



## DJRSP (Nov 2, 2017)

Ahhhh now that makes sense /\ ,

Well in that case, everything is working and it will just be an adjustment period from my pre-external DAC days. I was approaching the external all wrong .
From now on i'll keep this iPhone at max and step up and down using the iDEA volume controls.
I just received my 1More Triple Driver Lightning from massdrop which I thought would render the iDEA useless but the sound it provides is cleaner than the lightning only headphone i have tried.

In any case, here's the rig.Used some 3m velcro to keep things intact
Thanks for your help on this

.


----------



## Ders Olmaz

hi guys i have a question for you. i need a dac amp to use with phone with tidal/spotify. can you suggest smslidea, topping nx2s or sabaj da3? do you think which one i prefer. 
and i read da2 and idea is same so why there is difference price which one to choose?
thank you


----------



## DjBobby

Ders Olmaz said:


> hi guys i have a question for you. i need a dac amp to use with phone with tidal/spotify. can you suggest smslidea, topping nx2s or sabaj da3? do you think which one i prefer.
> and i read da2 and idea is same so why there is difference price which one to choose?
> thank you


Topping has it's own battery power, smsl and idea will draw the power from your phone. Topping has more power to drive some higher impedance headphones, but the dac section is very mediocre. Narrow soundstage, loss of micro-details. I don't have Sabaj, but I guess it's rebranded SMSL iIDEA. Sabre chip in both of them is a way more resolving than TI's PCM5101A in Topping's NX2s.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Ders Olmaz said:


> hi guys i have a question for you. i need a dac amp to use with phone with tidal/spotify. can you suggest smslidea, topping nx2s or sabaj da3? do you think which one i prefer.
> and i read da2 and idea is same so why there is difference price which one to choose?
> thank you


If you're willing to spend $100 for the Sabaj Da3, you could add the $100 Fiio Q1 MkII to the list of amp/dacs you're considering.


----------



## Ders Olmaz (Nov 5, 2017)

thank you for replies. i write options because of 11.11 discounts. i see only fiio q1 in discount it is 60, smsl idea and sabaj da3 is something like 70 bucks. Is Q1 mark ii is way better audio quality ? the charge is no problem for me by the way.


----------



## antdroid (Nov 7, 2017)

I just got the Sabaj DA2 tonight, and have been testing it side-by-side with the SMSL X4 on several different types of music and segments of different songs that have instrument separation or other things I like to use as distinguishers. The DA2 definitely sounds more precise, and better at separation than the X4. The X4 is quite commendable and at the price it's a solid offering, especially compared to the similarly priced K1. The DA2 though can drive my test headphones (Fostex T50RP Mk3 with mods) much better than the X4, and overall - sounds just slightly better. The X4 does have a warmer sound as someone mentioned much earlier in this thread.

I am using an Android (Essential PH-1) device (with USB-C) as my test bed and while I dont have audible buzzing or hissing that people have mentioned, it does sometimes have a click sound if I unplug and replug it when switching devices. It may be android being confused what's going on as I'm switching DACs rather quickly.

Overall, I'm going to keep the DA2 over the X4 for $20 more. The DA3 looks like a beast at the price, but does not sound portable friendly with its power consumption. I also use the Fiio BTR1 for bluetooth dac/amp.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Ders Olmaz said:


> thank you for replies. i write options because of 11.11 discounts. i see only fiio q1 in discount it is 60, smsl idea and sabaj da3 is something like 70 bucks. Is Q1 mark ii is way better audio quality ? the charge is no problem for me by the way.



I doubt that the Fiio Q1 sounds way better than the iDEA. I just suggested another highly-regarded portable DAC/amp that runs on its own battery.


----------



## Rocketval

Does anyone know if there is an otg cable to connect both the dac (micro-usb) and, at the same time, recharge the smartphone (usb type c)?


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Rocketval said:


> Does anyone know if there is an otg cable to connect both the dac (micro-usb) and, at the same time, recharge the smartphone (usb type c)?



I was looking for the same exact thing some time ago but apparently it doesn't exist, even if the product page states that it does. There are tons of otg hubs being sold on eBay and AliExpress that can be connected to a USB charger, but it only supplies power to the thing you connect to the phone through the hub, but not the phone itself for charging.


----------



## Rocketval

Hal Rockwell said:


> I was looking for the same exact thing some time ago but apparently it doesn't exist, even if the product page states that it does. There are tons of otg hubs being sold on eBay and AliExpress that can be connected to a USB charger, but it only supplies power to the thing you connect to the phone through the hub, but not the phone itself for charging.



This means I'll try to build one by myself 
I've done it yet for my pc external soundcard to power it, maybe changing something it could be possible..


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Rocketval said:


> This means I'll try to build one by myself
> I've done it yet for my pc external soundcard to power it, maybe changing something it could be possible..



It will be great if you succeed. Please update on you progress with this. If it will turn out fine, I'll make one for myself.


----------



## Hal Rockwell

I know it's not the SMSL iDEA, but is anyone interested in a shootout?


----------



## antdroid

Rocketval said:


> Does anyone know if there is an otg cable to connect both the dac (micro-usb) and, at the same time, recharge the smartphone (usb type c)?



I have a USB-C hub with power passthrough that works great for my windows tablet. I was able to use it for my android phone as well with a usb flash drive. I didnt check to see if it worked with my usb dac but I can try that tonight. The one I bought was by Pluggable: https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Sup...1PYW/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1509993370&sr=8-9 

You can search using USB-C Passthrough


----------



## maxxevv

Rocketval said:


> Does anyone know if there is an otg cable to connect both the dac (micro-usb) and, at the same time, recharge the smartphone (usb type c)?





Hal Rockwell said:


> I was looking for the same exact thing some time ago but apparently it doesn't exist, even if the product page states that it does. There are tons of otg hubs being sold on eBay and AliExpress that can be connected to a USB charger, but it only supplies power to the thing you connect to the phone through the hub, but not the phone itself for charging.



Just answered a similar question on another thread.  

Not sure if its what you're looking for but it allows the plugging in of a powerbank to supply the external device ( at least that's what I read in the descriptions).  So it will help to minimise the power draw from your phone by the DAC . 

https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Female...2&sr=1-38&keywords=micro+usb+splitter+adapter


----------



## tworule

antdroid said:


> I just got the Sabaj DA2 tonight, and have been testing it side-by-side with the SMSL X4 on several different types of music and segments of different songs that have instrument separation or other things I like to use as distinguishers. The DA2 definitely sounds more precise, and better at separation than the X4. The X4 is quite commendable and at the price it's a solid offering, especially compared to the similarly priced K1. The DA2 though can drive my test headphones (Fostex T50RP Mk3 with mods) much better than the X4, and overall - sounds just slightly better. The X4 does have a warmer sound as someone mentioned much earlier in this thread.
> 
> I am using an Android (Essential PH-1) device (with USB-C) as my test bed and while I dont have audible buzzing or hissing that people have mentioned, it does sometimes have a click sound if I unplug and replug it when switching devices. It may be android being confused what's going on as I'm switching DACs rather quickly.
> 
> Overall, I'm going to keep the DA2 over the X4 for $20 more. The DA3 looks like a beast at the price, but does not sound portable friendly with its power consumption. I also use the Fiio BTR1 for bluetooth dac/amp.


How is btr1 compared to da2? I like the convenience of wireless but is da2 better sounding if source is a phone with streaming service like Deezer - Spotify ? Thanks


----------



## antdroid

tworule said:


> How is btr1 compared to da2? I like the convenience of wireless but is da2 better sounding if source is a phone with streaming service like Deezer - Spotify ? Thanks



I use Spotify (extreme) and Poweramp (Flac) and I enjoy both. I listen to all music genres, but primarily rock, indie, electropop, americana/roots, and new wave music.

I use these primarily with Audeze Sine headphones at work or VE Monk+ or K300 (300 ohm earbuds). They are able to power the planar magnetic Sines just fine. If I'm at my primary desk at work, I plug the DACs into my SMSL VA2 headphone amp for more juice, but it works fine standalone and I dont need to crank either one to max to hurt my ears.

The Fiio BTR1 is warmer sounding and this may be due to the AK DAC, which seem in general to sound more warm than Sabre DACs, in my experience. The DA2, which uses the Sabre 9018 is colder and crisper sounding, which I expected using a laptop with the same Sabre DAC built-in, and using the Schiit Stack which uses the AK series giving a warmer sound. The DA2 also has slightly better music instrument separation than the BTR1 which tends to match the specs given. Neither of these sound as good as my desktop setups though.

That's really the biggest difference between the two imho. Warmer sound vs a slightly clearly, colder sound. Other things to consider:

The sabaj DA2/Idea is usb-c based so it does drain more battery than the Fiio which uses BT 4.2, so that may be a consideration.

In practical uses, I have tended to use the Fiio more often because I can charge and use it at once without using a hub so far. It's also easier for mobility since it's wireless and has a built-in clip.


So I guess to summarize (and I apologize for the random train of thought):

Fiio BTR1: Warmer sound signature - which makes music sound fuller
Pros: Wireless/no dongle required, uses less power on phone, built-in clip, nice design (my co-worker buddy wants to get one after seeing it)
Cons: Needs to be charged if not near power source, slightly less music separation, can be slightly bloated sounding because of warmth on some songs

Sabaj DA2: more precise sound signature, colder, higher resolution support
Pros: higher res support, better music separation, independent volume controls, comes with OTG cables (I dont use them though)
Cons: drains battery more than BT, dongle'd

Let me know if you have any further questions.


----------



## antdroid (Nov 7, 2017)

As a follow-up to a previous question, here's my Essential PH-1 Phone with USB-C power passthrough hub, powering the phone while using the Sabaj DA2 Dac.

A few observations --
It's a messy cord set up obviously. If I went this route, it would be with my phone dock, attached to the hub, and permanently situated on my desk. 
The USB-C hub was the smallest one I could find that provided power pass through and a power out that was on the opposite end of the power in (That makes the most sense to me!).
I had a heck of a time getting the phone to detect the DAC through the hub. I am using PowerAmp in the screenshot. Anyway, after several disconnect and reconnects, it finally detected USB audio and music played just fine.


----------



## tworule (Nov 8, 2017)

antdroid said:


> I use Spotify (extreme) and Poweramp (Flac) and I enjoy both. I listen to all music genres, but primarily rock, indie, electropop, americana/roots, and new wave music.
> 
> I use these primarily with Audeze Sine headphones at work or VE Monk+ or K300 (300 ohm earbuds). They are able to power the planar magnetic Sines just fine. If I'm at my primary desk at work, I plug the DACs into my SMSL VA2 headphone amp for more juice, but it works fine standalone and I dont need to crank either one to max to hurt my ears.
> 
> ...


thanks for great review. I plan to use it at gym so btr1 seems a better option.


----------



## blse59

How are these with driving 600 ohm cans? I specifically have the DT-990 in mind.


----------



## DjBobby

blse59 said:


> How are these with driving 600 ohm cans? I specifically have the DT-990 in mind.


With 600 ohm you need more voltage. iDea has no chance to deliver it.


----------



## Ynot1

PlantsmanTX said:


> I doubt that the Fiio Q1 sounds way better than the iDEA. I just suggested another highly-regarded portable DAC/amp that runs on its own battery.



It depends, Fiio Q1 MK Ii in balance mode sounds really good to me. And 11.11 prolly will not put something so new on sale. I have to caution going balance, it could mean different things to different people. For me I'm having trouble because i'm trying to convert most of my earphones and headphones to balance. If only money grew on trees I could just buy balance from the get go.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

I see that Shenzhen Audio is selling the iDEA through Amazon for $73- down from $85- and it's "fulfilled by Amazon", so you won't have to wait weeks for it.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

just got my Da2 and running tidal HIFI showing only blue light on the dac..i thought it would be pink (indicating hi resolution PCM playback)..
Can anyone please explain how this will work..is it suppose to lit blue or pink??using Tidal HIFI???


----------



## Matias

Tidal is lossless CD quality which is 16 bit 44kHz, which is the blue color.
High res PCM is pink, DSD is red. So Tidal blue is fine.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Matias said:


> Tidal is lossless CD quality which is 16 bit 44kHz, which is the blue color.
> High res PCM is pink, DSD is red. So Tidal blue is fine.


Thanks for the info..my da2 is getting hot after playing short time..even simple pcm files..its it normal? please confirm..


----------



## Matias

Yes it gets quite warm but not hot to the touch. Normal.


----------



## MD Alimur Rahman

Matias said:


> Yes it gets quite warm but not hot to the touch. Normal.


Yes warm.. It can be touched.. Thanks.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Has anyone else experienced clicks, skips, or other glitches with this DAC? I had it connected to my Windows 10 desktop computer, and suddenly ran into frequent clicks, skips, and bits of static. I Googled, and it seems that this isn't a rare problem with DACs connected to computer devices. I read recommendations that include going into the device manager, setting it to show hidden devices, and deleting older occurrences of the Idea device, and making sure the Idea isn't sharing a usb port with something else. I tried those things, but they didn't work.

I tried it on an Android tablet with USB Audio Player Pro, and ran into the same glitches, plus a new one- the sound would cut out completely for several seconds, then five seconds or so of the music that was playing just before the sound cut out would be replayed. Now I have it connected to a Windows 8 laptop, and over about three hours or so of listening, I've heard one glitch, and one other sound I'm not sure wasn't in the recording.Has anyone else run into this, or read/heard about it? I want to believe it's a software problem on the part of the computer devices- drivers, or whatever- but I can't definitively pin it down as one.


----------



## Rocketval (Nov 14, 2017)

I've just built an home-made cable to charge my smartphone and the smsl x4 with an external battery pack.
Both the x4 and my android smartphone are gonna recharging BUT my device doesn't recognize the x4.
This is the scheme, I'll appreciate any suggestion:







EDIT: Just found a way https://forum . xda-developers . com/showthread.php?t=1822653

EDIT 2: I'll try this " Acasis H027 "


----------



## blse59

Matias said:


> Tidal is lossless CD quality which is 16 bit 44kHz, which is the blue color.
> High res PCM is pink, DSD is red. So Tidal blue is fine.



Is the LED really supposed to change color? I have the iDEA and I don't notice this on mine when playing high res files. I have 24-bit 192 khz files I'm playing through WASAPI, the iDEA driver I installed shows it's outputting 192 khz, and the LED color stays blue.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

blse59 said:


> Is the LED really supposed to change color? I have the iDEA and I don't notice this on mine when playing high res files. I have 24-bit 192 khz files I'm playing through WASAPI, the iDEA driver I installed shows it's outputting 192 khz, and the LED color stays blue.



The literature says it turns purple when playing PCM at 358.2kHz and above, and red when playing DSD.


----------



## Thor71 (Nov 16, 2017)

Hi Guys,
It's now about 2 months that I'm using this DAC with my Iphone 6s paired with Noble X, I'm using it mostly with Spotify&Tidal.
Well, maybe I'm a newbie but I trust my ears and the difference with or without this DAC is near to zero.....yes SQ is good but not so much difference.
I mean, there's no WOW effect......maybe should I have to try a Mojo?


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Thor71 said:


> Hi Guys,
> It's now about 2 months that I'm using this DAC with my Iphone 6s paired with Noble X, I'm using it mostly with Spotify&Tidal.
> Well, maybe I'm a newbie but I trust my ears and the difference with or without this DAC is near to zero.....yes SQ is good but not so much difference.
> I mean, there's no WOW effect......maybe should I have to try a Mojo?



I'm a newbie too, and not very knowledgeable, but on general principal, for lack of a better term, if the Idea doesn't give you the wow factor you're looking for, then sure- try the Mojo, or something else.


----------



## ModestMase

Thor71 said:


> Hi Guys,
> It's now about 2 months that I'm using this DAC with my Iphone 6s paired with Noble X, I'm using it mostly with Spotify&Tidal.
> Well, maybe I'm a newbie but I trust my ears and the difference with or without this DAC is near to zero.....yes SQ is good but not so much difference.
> I mean, there's no WOW effect......maybe should I have to try a Mojo?



The Idea is for people (like me) who can't afford a Mojo. If you can, by all means you should be using Mojo, my dude.


----------



## DjBobby (Nov 19, 2017)

ModestMase said:


> The Idea is for people (like me) who can't afford a Mojo. If you can, by all means you should be using Mojo, my dude.





Thor71 said:


> Hi Guys,
> It's now about 2 months that I'm using this DAC with my Iphone 6s paired with Noble X, I'm using it mostly with Spotify&Tidal.
> Well, maybe I'm a newbie but I trust my ears and the difference with or without this DAC is near to zero.....yes SQ is good but not so much difference.
> I mean, there's no WOW effect......maybe should I have to try a Mojo?





PlantsmanTX said:


> I'm a newbie too, and not very knowledgeable, but on general principal, for lack of a better term, if the Idea doesn't give you the wow factor you're looking for, then sure- try the Mojo, or something else.


I have both the iDea and the Mojo. Mojo is of course far ahead, but I am using it only in a quiet environment with a decent headphones, where the Mojo could be enjoyed to its full potential. Otherwise, commuting, jogging and used with simple headphones, iDea fulfills completely my needs. Small, lightweight, and most important, since I have iPhone7 without headphone jack, it's far better than Apple's Lightning to 3,5mm headphone jack adapter.


----------



## dc655321

Thor71 said:


> Hi Guys,
> It's now about 2 months that I'm using this DAC with my Iphone 6s paired with Noble X, I'm using it mostly with Spotify&Tidal.
> Well, maybe I'm a newbie but I trust my ears and the difference with or without this DAC is near to zero.....yes SQ is good but not so much difference.
> I mean, there's no WOW effect......maybe should I have to try a Mojo?



IMO, if you listen through good quality iems, to good quality source material, then an amp/dac will only have minimal effect on what you hear.
Within reason of course (a crappy amp will ruin the experience).

One has to be a little careful with iems and amps to ensure proper impedance matching. This is especially true for iems with balanced armatures, as their impedance characteristics can vary widely as a function of frequency (https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MassdropNobelX.pdf).
A gross mismatch is easily audible. Having said that, iphones produce good audio, as does the iDEA. You're right that it is a subtle difference. I notice the difference between my iphone 5se and my iDEA as the latter having a more crisp sound with a clean, black background using my FLC8S iems.


----------



## JayNetTech5

The X4 is very detailed sounding, probably the most detailed sounding source I've ever heard so far, but I'm not the biggest fan of its overall sound signature; it has a Wolfson dac, maybe that's why I never really liked the audio quality of iPods? I wonder how the IDea would sound in comparison. I'm also looking into the M7 for the sheer fact that it has AKM dacs installed (I'm biased), but I don't know, I like the simplicity and capacitor-less design of these portable headphone amps.


----------



## DjBobby (Nov 29, 2017)

JayNetTech5 said:


> The X4 is very detailed sounding, probably the most detailed sounding source I've ever heard so far, but I'm not the biggest fan of its overall sound signature; it has a Wolfson dac, maybe that's why I never really liked the audio quality of iPods? I wonder how the IDea would sound in comparison. I'm also looking into the M7 for the sheer fact that it has AKM dacs installed (I'm biased), but I don't know, I like the simplicity and capacitor-less design of these portable headphone amps.


Only the earliest models of iPods had Wolfson dacs. Apple later switched to Cirrus Logic dac which is featured in all their later models of iPods, iPhones and iPads. Wolfson used linear filter, while Cirrus dacs in Apple products used exclusively minimum phase filters.
I have both X4 and iDea. X4 sounds warmer, more laid back with woolly bass and less treble energy. It is more pleasant for long long listening sessions, but has less precise soundstage and imaging. iDea is typical Sabre dac, sounds faster, more energetic with lots of treble energy, but is also more fatiguing and can be sibilant with some headphones. It depends of your musical tastes and of your choice of headphones. Brighter HPs like AKG and Beyers go better with Wolfson and therefore with X4, darker HPs like Senns and Audezes go better with Sabre and iDea.
AKM is somewhat puzzling. Older AKMs were more linear and neutral, newer AKMs sound more like Wolfson, with laid back treble.


----------



## JayNetTech5

DjBobby said:


> X4 sounds warmer, more laid back with woolly bass and less treble energy.


 Wow, my ears weren't lying, I knew something was up with the bass sounding like a spring door stop. Also, everything you described is exactly how mine sounds, especially the weird moments where parts/instrumentation of a song sound laid-back while others sound up close, as if two different bands at different distances are playing the song. While I love it's incredible detail, it's almost sonically unappealing and creepy to listen to at times. I would also say the texture is a little weird and has a bit of "fuzziness" which makes the music sound mushy, almost artificially smooth and processed. While I like setups that are sonically smooth, this sounds kind of unnatural and hard to get into; however, the soundstage is fairly dynamic. I am biased toward AKM because of what I've heard about them, and the fact that the early PlayStation models had them and made them sound very good; I have one.


----------



## TrantaLocked (Dec 13, 2017)

The left channel on my iDEA now only plays static, and to top it off, my left EARPHONE heats up. Yes, the earphone! My SMSL iDEA is now both broken AND dangerous to have plugged in, all due to regular daily use for just a few months!

I had a bad feeling buying something with no reviews from a chinese company ran by a bunch of moronic assholes but somehow I had hope things would go well. Just no. From the clipping noises I was getting from my last unit after I "upgraded" the firmware, now to this model dying after less than 6 months, I'll never buy SMSL again and really hope everyone here reconsiders buying the iDEA or ANYTHING from SMSL.


----------



## Makahl (Dec 13, 2017)

TrantaLocked said:


> The left channel on my iDEA now only plays static, and to top it off, my left EARPHONE heats up. Yes, the earphone! My SMSL iDEA is now both broken AND dangerous to have plugged in, all due to regular daily use for just a few months!
> 
> I had a bad feeling buying something with no reviews from a chinese company ran by a bunch of moronic assholes but somehow I had hope things would go well. Just no. From the clipping noises I was getting from my last unit after I "upgraded" the firmware, now to this model dying after less than 6 months, I'll never buy SMSL again and really hope everyone here reconsiders buying the iDEA or ANYTHING from SMSL.



:/
I'm sorry to hear that. I was wondering in getting an iDEA or Sabaj DA2 but the Android issue was a deal breaker and now that is really a mess. Has anyone else gotten the FiiO Q1 MKII? I'd love some portable solution like the iDEA w/ a great SQ but which works flawlessly.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Makahl said:


> :/
> I'm sorry to hear that. I was wondering in getting an iDEA or Sabaj DA2 but the Android issue was a deal breaker and now that is really a mess. Has anyone else gotten the FiiO Q1 MKII? I'd love some portable solution like the iDEA w/ a great SQ but which works flawlessly.


The Sabaj DA2 is internally identical to the IDEA, so I imagine it's subject to the same things going wrong, if things go wrong. I haven't had any problem with the IDEA. I did have a problem with skips and pops, but the culprit was my motherboard. Having said all that, I've had my eye on the Fiio, too. It has more power, and just looks like a nicer product. As far as it working flawlessly, well, devices malfunction. I don't doubt some copies of the Fiio have/will malfunction in some way. If you're talking about the buzzing issue with Android, I don't consider that to be much of a problem. You unplug the cable and plug it back in.


----------



## DjBobby

TrantaLocked said:


> The left channel on my iDEA now only plays static, and to top it off, my left EARPHONE heats up. Yes, the earphone! My SMSL iDEA is now both broken AND dangerous to have plugged in, all due to regular daily use for just a few months!
> 
> I had a bad feeling buying something with no reviews from a chinese company ran by a bunch of moronic assholes but somehow I had hope things would go well. Just no. From the clipping noises I was getting from my last unit after I "upgraded" the firmware, now to this model dying after less than 6 months, I'll never buy SMSL again and really hope everyone here reconsiders buying the iDEA or ANYTHING from SMSL.


Sorry to hear that. I have from SMSL: M8A, M8, M2, iDea, X3, X4, iDol +, sApII Pro and previously had Sanskrit 6th. No problem with any of them.


----------



## TrantaLocked

PlantsmanTX said:


> The Sabaj DA2 is internally identical to the IDEA, so I imagine it's subject to the same things going wrong, if things go wrong. I haven't had any problem with the IDEA. I did have a problem with skips and pops, but the culprit was my motherboard. Having said all that, I've had my eye on the Fiio, too. It has more power, and just looks like a nicer product. As far as it working flawlessly, well, devices malfunction. I don't doubt some copies of the Fiio have/will malfunction in some way. If you're talking about the buzzing issue with Android, I don't consider that to be much of a problem. You unplug the cable and plug it back in.



The popping thing imo is still unforgivable; no other DAC I've heard of requires you to be picky about what system or USB output you use in order to avoid annoying popping noises. 

I'm going back to the FiiO K1 with my laptop after the broken iDEA. The K1 in my testing sounded really good for the price; certainly not as clean and effortless the Audioengine D3 or SMSL iDEA (yes, the iDEA sounds amazing...as long as it isn't malfunctioning) but good enough to use for a music lover.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

TrantaLocked said:


> The popping thing imo is still unforgivable; no other DAC I've heard of requires you to be picky about what system or USB output you use in order to avoid annoying popping noises.
> 
> I'm going back to the FiiO K1 with my laptop after the broken iDEA. The K1 in my testing sounded really good for the price; certainly not as clean and effortless the Audioengine D3 or SMSL iDEA (yes, the iDEA sounds amazing...as long as it isn't malfunctioning) but good enough to use for a music lover.


I understand. I'd feel the same way in your situation. But in my case, it turned out to be a problem with my computer. I would get clicks and skips no matter which USB port I used, and shortly after I posted about it here, the computer gave out on me. It went off by itself, and when I'd try to switch it on, all I'd get was a lit led on the motherboard. Even the power supply fan wouldn't spin. Long story short, the led indicates that the CPU protection circuit is activated, which wasn't mentioned in the manual. I changed the power supply, cleared the CMOS, and I haven't had a a click/skip problem since.


----------



## Jack-A

Native DSD works fine on my S8+


----------



## Supa Boy

I recently connected the SMSL X4 directly to the PS4's USB port and it worked! No more bad sound! I'm very happy to have worked so well! Guys, could anyone please answer or advise me if the SMSL M3 is better than the Sabaj D2 (Also DAC + AMP headphone, 10$ cheaper)? I'm thinking of getting the Sabaj D2 to also plug it into the PS4's USB port, in addition to using it on the computer. Worth it? Will I have better audio quality? Between SMSL M3 and Sabaj D2 = Which one has the best audio quality?


----------



## TrantaLocked

In regards to my defective iDEA, SMSL customer support is ignoring my requests for at least a replacement. So I paid ~$60 for a USB DAC to fail within 6 months of purchase with no way of getting a replacement.


----------



## mvneufeld

DjBobby said:


> Sorry to hear that. I have from SMSL: M8A, M8, M2, iDea, X3, X4, iDol +, sApII Pro and previously had Sanskrit 6th. No problem with any of them.


You mentioned that you have the M8 and the M8A - how do you like them? I'm thinking of getting the M8 and using the $50 I save to buy a linear power supply (http://bit.ly/2C7Y97v).


----------



## PlantsmanTX

TrantaLocked said:


> In regards to my defective iDEA, SMSL customer support is ignoring my requests for at least a replacement. So I paid ~$60 for a USB DAC to fail within 6 months of purchase with no way of getting a replacement.


That's bad business. I'll remember it for future reference.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

Supa Boy said:


> I recently connected the SMSL X4 directly to the PS4's USB port and it worked! No more bad sound! I'm very happy to have worked so well! Guys, could anyone please answer or advise me if the SMSL M3 is better than the Sabaj D2 (Also DAC + AMP headphone, 10$ cheaper)? I'm thinking of getting the Sabaj D2 to also plug it into the PS4's USB port, in addition to using it on the computer. Worth it? Will I have better audio quality? Between SMSL M3 and Sabaj D2 = Which one has the best audio quality?


I haven't heard them, so I don't know. If you go to the Sabaj website and compare the specs of the D2 to the Da1, which is the same as the SMSL X4, it looks like it may not be any better than what you already have.


----------



## DjBobby

mvneufeld said:


> You mentioned that you have the M8 and the M8A - how do you like them? I'm thinking of getting the M8 and using the $50 I save to buy a linear power supply (http://bit.ly/2C7Y97v).


You can read my impressions on another thread: Post #216


----------



## tomscy2000

I bought an iDEA a couple weeks ago and have been impressed by its value. Compared to other SABRE9018Q2C-based USB DAC/amps (i.e. NextDrive Spectra, Cozoy TAKT Pro), it's the least expensive (discounting the near-identical Sabaj DA2), and seems to perform up to par.

I just noticed that SMSL have a dual-mono version of the iDEA, called the IQ, that's only visible on the Simplified Chinese version of its website: http://www.smsl-audio.com/cn/productshow.asp?id=142

Because it uses a balanced topology, the IQ now offers balanced output that accompanies improved power delivery (55 mW vs 35 mW into 32 ohms on unbalanced outputs), lower THD+N, and thus improved SNR & DNR.

The Silicon Labs multiclock generator for MCLK is now replaced by two discrete TXCOs for 44.1 and 48 kHz multiples. Perhaps it'll be a little better performing in terms of jitter reduction, but I don't know if the change will be noticeably audible.

Just as a word of note, while the SMSL iDEA and the Sabaj DA2 seem to be identical in terms of PCB layout and parts usage, the Sabaj analog to the SMSL IQ seems to be slightly different.

This is the Sabaj DA3: http://www.sabaj.com.cn/productshow.asp?id=74

Not only are the TCXOs used of a different brand, the PCB layout is slightly different. The stated specifications are ever so slightly different as well; the Sabaj has a measured DNR of 125.219 dB, while the SMSL has a measured DNR of 125.559 dB. The Sabaj has a specified power of 56 mW into 32 ohms, while the SMSL, as stated previously has a power of 55 mW. Thus, the stated THD+N for the Sabaj is slightly higher at 0.00038% compared to the SMSL's 0.00033%. Now, these are tiny, tiny differences that ultimately are indiscernible to the human ear, but the differences do suggest a slightly different parts bill. Because the SABRE9018Q2C is an SoC, there's not much tweaking to be done in terms of the sound. Both devices, like the iDEA/DA2 before them, will likely implement a bog-standard symmetric sinc filter. The only differences governing the end result for sound will be determined by how clean the voltage is going into the reference inputs of the SoC, and this factor is governed by PCB layout. I don't know what the real PCB layout of the SABAJ looks like, but from the small snippets, 

On a more obvious note, the Sabaj DA3 seems to be thicker, less wide, and less long than the thinner, wider, and longer SMSL IQ. Overall, IMO, the SMSL is a little better looking. The prices are also different: a quick search on Taobao shows the SMSL is more expensive at ¥750.00 (~$114), while the Sabaj is substantially cheaper at ¥ 549.99 (~$84). Keep in mind that the Taobao prices for the Sabaj DA2 (¥ 368, ~$56) are also cheaper than those of the SMSL iDEA (¥ 468, ~$71).


----------



## tomscy2000 (Dec 30, 2017)

Then again, despite the numerical differences, the THD and DNR plots look identical on superimposition.

Also, I didn't realize the Sabaj DA3 could do selectable audio filters (normal vs. minimum phase). The SMSL IQ likely does the same.


----------



## DjBobby

tomscy2000 said:


> I bought an iDEA a couple weeks ago and have been impressed by its value. Compared to other SABRE9018Q2C-based USB DAC/amps (i.e. NextDrive Spectra, Cozoy TAKT Pro), it's the least expensive (discounting the near-identical Sabaj DA2), and seems to perform up to par.
> 
> I just noticed that SMSL have a dual-mono version of the iDEA, called the IQ, that's only visible on the Simplified Chinese version of its website: http://www.smsl-audio.com/cn/productshow.asp?id=142
> 
> ...


Thanks for heads up, very interesting. It's also visible on english version: http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=142
Aliexpress has it already: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20171230042216&SearchText=smsl+iq


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## PlantsmanTX (Dec 30, 2017)

tomscy2000 said:


> the Sabaj DA3 seems to be thicker, less wide, and less long than the thinner, wider, and longer SMSL IQ. Overall, IMO, the SMSL is a little better looking.



Very good information, thanks. The DA3 has been on the market here for a while. It's $99.99 at Amazon and Newegg. I see that the link to the IQ USB audio driver downloads a zip file of the XMOS driver, version 4.38. The driver linked to on the IDEA page is still version 4.11.


----------



## tomscy2000

DjBobby said:


> Thanks for heads up, very interesting. It's also visible on english version: http://www.smsl-audio.com/productshow.asp?id=142
> Aliexpress has it already: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20171230042216&SearchText=smsl+iq





PlantsmanTX said:


> Very good information, thanks. The DA3 has been on the market here for a while. It's $99.99 at Amazon and Newegg. I see that the link to the IQ USB audio driver downloads a zip file of the XMOS driver, version 4.38. The driver linked to on the IDEA page is still version 4.11.



Thanks for the info. I've been away from all this stuff for a while, so I was a bit jumbled with my information.


----------



## JayNetTech5

I'm starting to agree with you guys about the built quality of these dac/amps. Something went very wrong with my X4. While I was chatting on discord yesterday I started to get bombarded with occasional loud hissing, like as if somebody kept turning on white noise out of nowhere. Now this morning when I re-booted my computer I heard an intense long and loud buzzing sound through my headphones that nearly deafened me and it kept coming back in bursts every couple of seconds during the boot process.


----------



## blse59 (Jan 1, 2018)

Over six months in and I'm still using it. It's permanently attached to the front USB port on my computer and my headphones or speakers always go in it and I never think about it. I've used this more than any external DAC I've owned.


----------



## macbug

I got myself a Sabaj DA1 , works great except my phone insists on reverse charging it, setting it to midi doesn't appear to stick in terms of power draw, still wats up about 100mW.  Does anyone know if there is a way to make it draw less power?


----------



## spongeworthy

The USB port just completely crapped out on me within a couple months of using it, I think the contacts are faulty since it requires minutes of maneuvering the cable in the right place for it to function


----------



## JohannLiebert

I have an SMSL idea and Chord Mojo coming in the next 2 weeks. I don't care much about features, I just need a hiss-free or low hiss device with low output impedance for IEM's( Andromeda, CA Harmony 8.2). 
They both seem to tick the boxes. One for 6x the price though.


----------



## dc655321

JohannLiebert said:


> I have an SMSL idea and Chord Mojo coming in the next 2 weeks. I don't care much about features, I just need a hiss-free or low hiss device with low output impedance for IEM's( Andromeda, CA Harmony 8.2).
> They both seem to tick the boxes. One for 6x the price though.




Would like to hear your impressions of the Mojo vs the iDEA with your Andromeda when you have a chance.

Never used the Mojo, but was using the iDEA with the Andros for several weeks. It was a hiss-free combo that sounded great (IMO).
Andros certainly live up to their "bloody sensitive" reputation - 5/6 clicks (out of 20) on the iDEA's volume was plenty loud.
For comparison, my FLC8S are in the 9-10 click range for similar volume...


----------



## hakuzen

JohannLiebert said:


> I have an SMSL idea and Chord Mojo coming in the next 2 weeks. I don't care much about features, I just need a hiss-free or low hiss device with low output impedance for IEM's( Andromeda, CA Harmony 8.2).
> They both seem to tick the boxes. One for 6x the price though.


mojo has nice low (near zero) output impedance.. till 6kHz. it starts growing then, 0.5ohms at 10kHz, 1ohm at ~15kHz, 1.5ohms at 20kHz.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/800208/#post_12803183
http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/chord-mojo.php
so expect some tonal alterations in top highs (lower than 2dB, though) with BA iems like andromeda


----------



## harry501501

I have the Sabaj DA3 and it's excellent. It's a thick sound but with good detail and it's quite organic sounding. Bass is pretty big but doesn't dominate. I have it as my laptop DAC going in to the SMSL T2 vacuum Tube and the two of them work perfectly together. The T2 combined with my other USB Dacs which are Cambridge Audio DACMAGIC V2 and Topping NX2 sounded very crisp and very detailed but a bit thin (which did give it an open sound). Connected to the Sabaj DA3 it's a different ball game. It's the best setup I've used yet and it's getting some super results out of my headphones and earphones and put life in to sets I'd pretty much discarded. the smoothness of the DA3 and the slightly bright SMSL T2 combine perfectly to give a smooth but very detailed sound, very open and lovely extension both ways. Very organic and soundstage def slightly wider. I've used it with DSD streams and I can def hear a slight difference the higher you go.

This setup drives all my IEMs and headphones well. Will it drive sets like HD650... yes, but maybe at the highest volume setting on both.


----------



## harry501501

The Sabaj DA3 uses two SABRE 9018Q2C chips as opposed to the DACMAGIC's SABRE ES9023. There is a definite upgrade to sound which has much more body and detail.


----------



## koziakauzu

Just got a *S.M.S.L IQ*, I don't know how similar to the iDEA it is, but I am impressed.

The sound was a bit cold at first but after a while the thing warmed up and took me by surprise with a huge soundstage (at least compared to my phone using the HTC usb-c to 3.5 with built-in DAC or what I remember of my Onkyo DP-X1 or Granbeat I owned a while ago. Or maybe I just don't remember well).

Sound is full of details, lows are heavy but not overwhelming, mids are detailed, highs too without being harsh. Not Mojo warm but not as clinical as I was expecting. (I have sold my Mojo a long time ago too)

I have only used it in balanced mode so far and I'm pairing it with a Xperia XZ1 compact + SE846 (+ Onkyo HF player).

The thing is light, thin and quite tiny (95mm x 56mm x 9mm). I was expecting something roughly the size of my phone (which is only 5") but it is still smaller. Both devices attached together are still pocketable in my front pants pocket.
I was a bit disappointed to find no accessories except the necessary short cables though.
The included micro-usb to usb-c cable works but having straights connectors and being in white color, I have ordered a black angled one.
I wasn't convinced by the product photos showing the flat horizontal volume wheel, but it is a multifunction selector with pushing function, a bit like some old MD walkman, I like it.







1 or 2 things I don't like though:
- the tiny OLED screen is always on. Not sure if it affects the battery but I dont see it when stacked anyway.
- the power button is on top... weird decision... luckily I am using a repositionnable double-sided sticky pad for stacking so it is fine with its thickness. That could be an issue if you attach it directly to your device with silicone bands.

I was considering an iDEA or even a Dragonfly black/red, but having something hanging, sucking my phone battery and possibly having a chain of cable adapters lead me to get something stackable instead.
I have paid around USD125 (HKD 1000) and I am very pleased.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

koziakauzu said:


> Just got a *S.M.S.L IQ*, I don't know how similar to the iDEA it is, but I am impressed.
> 
> The sound was a bit cold at first but after a while the thing warmed up and took me by surprise with a huge soundstage (at least compared to my phone using the HTC usb-c to 3.5 with built-in DAC or what I remember of my Onkyo DP-X1 or Granbeat I owned a while ago. Or maybe I just don't remember well).
> 
> ...


The IQ is very similar to the Sabaj Da3.


----------



## udd3n

Anyone compared the iDEA or Sabaj DA2 with the uDac 3? Planning on using it as a dac only to my Arcam rHead.


----------



## FastAndClean

i am thinking of getting the Sabaj Da3, i have dragonfly 1.2, i hope that it will have some improvement


----------



## Chein (Jan 19, 2018)

FastAndClean said:


> i am thinking of getting the Sabaj Da3, i have dragonfly 1.2, i hope that it will have some improvement


It should be. I've heard some prefering it over the DFR which is way better than the 1.2.


If you guys want to compare the insides of the DA3 and the IQ I've found some pics.

Sabaj DA3 :









SMSL IQ :


----------



## FastAndClean

i pulled the trigger, i hope the drivers will work well on my windows 8 laptop, i will report when the dac is here


----------



## koziakauzu

PlantsmanTX said:


> The IQ is very similar to the Sabaj Da3.


Interesting, I didn't know this device.
It seems that they didn't intend for the DA3 to be used with a mobile device (according to their CS replies on Amazon) although it looks like it can be.
It has no built-in battery though, unlike the IQ


----------



## tomscy2000

The DA3 and IQ don't look all that different. The DA3 is a linear design, running straight from the input to output. The IQ runs a U-turn.

The pictures are blurry for the DA3 so I might be wrong but the DA3's board and solder quality looks a little worse than the IQ's. However, the IQ's PCB traces run longer for both digital supply side and analog output traces.

I won't pretend to know which board layout/quality is better. Seems like a wash to me.


----------



## SounDenthusias

koziakauzu said:


> Just got a *S.M.S.L IQ*, I don't know how similar to the iDEA it is, but I am impressed.
> 
> The sound was a bit cold at first but after a while the thing warmed up and took me by surprise with a huge soundstage (at least compared to my phone using the HTC usb-c to 3.5 with built-in DAC or what I remember of my Onkyo DP-X1 or Granbeat I owned a while ago. Or maybe I just don't remember well).
> 
> ...



I have been looking for a portable solution that will give me the possibility to hear balanced and I came across this. Cant find anything on youtube or the forums about it, I think its the perfect solution. My only question is do you think that even the most discernible listener would admit that its high quality. Like ODAC or even HA 2. I know the power isnt like some but I have easy to drive hp? Thoughts?


----------



## PlantsmanTX

SounDenthusias said:


> Cant find anything on youtube or the forums about it



Well, the IQ is a very recent introduction.


----------



## dc655321

Anyone know the output impedance(s) of the IQ?
Have not been able to find that any where...


----------



## PlantsmanTX

dc655321 said:


> Anyone know the output impedance(s) of the IQ?
> Have not been able to find that any where...



Someone asked that question about the Sabaj DA3 on Amazon, and the Sabaj rep answered:



> It is about 10Ω ：）
> By Sabaj Audio Factory Store


----------



## dc655321

PlantsmanTX said:


> Someone asked that question about the Sabaj DA3 on Amazon, and the Sabaj rep answered:



Ah, thanks.
If that's accurate for the IQ, that's a bit of a bummer...


----------



## SounDenthusias

PlantsmanTX said:


> Well, the IQ is a very recent introduction.


Like how recent because that makes me want them more?


----------



## PlantsmanTX

SounDenthusias said:


> Like how recent because that makes me want them more?


I don't know the exact date it became available, but its Amazon page says it became available there on December 30.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

dc655321 said:


> Ah, thanks.
> If that's accurate for the IQ, that's a bit of a bummer...


Yes, that would be disappointing.


----------



## akilure (Jan 25, 2018)

Hello. First timer of headfi forum here. I bought SMSL IDEA about two weeks ago. Then I noticed the newly launched IQ.

Placed my order through SMSL's online factory store on taobao, which cost me 720 Yuan (112 USD) with 30 Yuan discount off the original price 750 Yuan, shipment fee included.







It took some 36 hours and 1600 km of mileage for the delivery to arrive. Only realized while unboxing that they sent me the wrong colored unit. I was asking for a silver one.





I returned the black unit and will share more first hand experience as soon as the replacement arrives, which should be at my doorstep on Saturday.

I got confirmation from SMSL sales rep that IQ's battery capacity is 2400mAh, while the output impedance is 12ohm.


----------



## koziakauzu

SounDenthusias said:


> I have been looking for a portable solution that will give me the possibility to hear balanced and I came across this. Cant find anything on youtube or the forums about it, I think its the perfect solution. My only question is do you think that even the most discernible listener would admit that its high quality. Like ODAC or even HA 2. I know the power isnt like some but I have easy to drive hp? Thoughts?



I am a mere enthusiast with little knowledge and limited access to audio equipment. The only thing I can say is that the IQ gives me the closest and most "balanced" delivery of music to my ears I am expecting and have experienced in the last 20 years if that makes sense.
(I should add that I only use portable devices and iems)

Of course that's completely subjective and your expectations might differ to what else you have/had access to or your personal tastes. 

My most "recent" equipment was mentioned in my post, so I can't help comparing with the one you cited


----------



## PlantsmanTX

> I got confirmation from SMSL sales rep that IQ's battery capacity is 2400mAh, while the output impedance is 12ohm.



Oh, well.


----------



## Makahl (Jan 25, 2018)

DA2/IDEA has an output impedance of ~0.5-ohms and a good output voltage of ~2Vrms. So for high sensitive BA IEMs, is it a better option over ~10-12ohms of output impedance? I know some IEMs can change like wine and water (ex: SE846 and Andromeda since their impedance curve aren't flat) but for DD w/ flat impedance iems it shouldn't be that different, right?


----------



## dc655321

Makahl said:


> DA2/IDEA has an output impedance of ~0.5-ohms and a good output voltage of ~2Vrms. So for high sensitive BA IEMs, is it a better option over ~10-12ohms of output impedance? I know some IEMs can change like wine and water (ex: SE846 and Andromeda since their impedance curve aren't flat) but for DD w/ flat impedance iems it shouldn't be that different, right?



Yep. Pure DD should be fine.


----------



## udd3n

udd3n said:


> Anyone compared the iDEA or Sabaj DA2 with the uDac 3? Planning on using it as a dac only to my Arcam rHead.



Noone? Should it be a decent upgrade?


----------



## PlantsmanTX

udd3n said:


> Noone? Should it be a decent upgrade?


Except for output power, the uDac 3's specs don't stack up to those of the iDEA/Da2.


----------



## dc655321

JohannLiebert said:


> I have an SMSL idea and Chord Mojo coming in the next 2 weeks. I don't care much about features, I just need a hiss-free or low hiss device with low output impedance for IEM's( Andromeda, CA Harmony 8.2).



If you have all the bits in hand, care to share any impressions or thoughts comparing iDEA/Andro and Mojo/Andro systems?


----------



## chuongth

I had a problem with my Idea. When i played file DSD256 with foobar2000 and Idea plug in, there was no sound but a long noise. But when play with other type of music, it's OK. I think Idea only play up to 64 and 128 DSD. Can anyone help me to solve this, plz? many thanks.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

chuongth said:


> I had a problem with my Idea. When i played file DSD256 with foobar2000 and Idea plug in, there was no sound but a long noise. But when play with other type of music, it's OK. I think Idea only play up to 64 and 128 DSD. Can anyone help me to solve this, plz? many thanks.


This might help:



Fast forward to 2:55.


----------



## udd3n

You think that this dac is good in a desktop setup with a dedicated headphone amp? Or is it better for portable and get something else for desk use?


----------



## DjBobby (Feb 1, 2018)

udd3n said:


> You think that this dac is good in a desktop setup with a dedicated headphone amp? Or is it better for portable and get something else for desk use?


It's incredibly good value for the money, you can easily use it as a desktop source with a dedicated headphone amp.
The only caveat is it that it was not meant to be used like a desktop dac. It doesn't have separate line out with a dedicated analog output circuitry but it is all-in-one dac SABRE9018Q2C.
You can read the dac's specs here: http://esstech.com.tw/PDF/SABRE9018Q2C PB v0.8 141210.pdf
A typical desktop dac has a dac chip and more or less sofisticated analog output circuitry, using either opamps or a discrete design. If you have a chance, than I would rather go for a grown up desktop solution and use iDEA for portable.


----------



## FastAndClean




----------



## FastAndClean

the differences with the dragonfly 1.2 are small, the dragonfly overall sound warmer with more body, the sabaj sound cleaner and more precise but the difference is small


----------



## FastAndClean (Feb 7, 2018)

i am making some tests with high quality files now and is obvious that the sabaj is superior to the dragonfly, the bass is a lot more detailed, there is new layer of texture, mids are not warm but cleaner and more open, the treble is more airy and the sound is more effortless overall


----------



## FastAndClean (Feb 7, 2018)

It drives my HifiMan HE500 without any problems, i have magni 2, i know is cheap but on my tests right now it seems very transparent and i cant detect any changes from the dac direct and the dac with the magni, the changes are only when i switch to the dragonfly


----------



## FastAndClean

after more testing this time with etymotic er4s the dac sound better direct in comparison to the dac and the magni 2, i finally made it bit perfect


----------



## wushuliu

udd3n said:


> You think that this dac is good in a desktop setup with a dedicated headphone amp? Or is it better for portable and get something else for desk use?



The Sabaj Da2 is excellent for a desktop. The Da3 is even better. The money you spend on a more expensive desktop dac can be used for something like the iFi iDefender to improve sound quality. The Idea/Da2 and especially the Da3 compete with any <$500 desktop dac I have heard, and I've heard a lot.


----------



## udd3n

wushuliu said:


> The Sabaj Da2 is excellent for a desktop. The Da3 is even better. The money you spend on a more expensive desktop dac can be used for something like the iFi iDefender to improve sound quality. The Idea/Da2 and especially the Da3 compete with any <$500 desktop dac I have heard, and I've heard a lot.



Sounds good. I ended up ordering the Topping D10 though for connecting to my Arcam rHead on my desktop setup.


----------



## SounDenthusias

koziakauzu said:


> I am a mere enthusiast with little knowledge and limited access to audio equipment. The only thing I can say is that the IQ gives me the closest and most "balanced" delivery of music to my ears I am expecting and have experienced in the last 20 years if that makes sense.
> (I should add that I only use portable devices and iems)
> 
> Of course that's completely subjective and your expectations might differ to what else you have/had access to or your personal tastes.
> ...


Can you confirm if it works with phones?


----------



## koziakauzu (Feb 11, 2018)

SounDenthusias said:


> Can you confirm if it works with phones?


It works with my Xperia phone (usb-c / Oreo), cannot confirm with others ... but it supposed to be a portable DAC so it should work with most phones (I believe there are always few exceptions when it comes to android). Package came with 2 mini cables; micro-usb to micro-usb and micro-usb to usb-c. Can't say about iDevices.

Edit: there is an option in the settings to switch between usb1.1 and usb2.0 transmission, supposedly to increase compatibility with Android and Linux.


----------



## SounDenthusias

koziakauzu said:


> It works with my Xperia phone (usb-c / Oreo), cannot confirm with others ... but it supposed to be a portable DAC so it should work with most phones (I believe there are always few exceptions when it comes to android). Package came with 2 mini cables; micro-usb to micro-usb and micro-usb to usb-c. Can't say about iDevices.
> 
> Edit: there is an option in the settings to switch between usb1.1 and usb2.0 transmission, supposedly to increase compatibility with Android and Linux.


So i bought it and i can only barely hear it at max everything on my phone. I have a Droid Turbo 2. This happens every time. Im getting a new phone soon, what phone works, do you know why your sony works, unfortunately I cant get a sony experia. ****. Im going to use it for my speakers for the time. But it was portable for a reason yknow?


----------



## koziakauzu

SounDenthusias said:


> So i bought it and i can only barely hear it at max everything on my phone. I have a Droid Turbo 2. This happens every time. Im getting a new phone soon, what phone works, do you know why your sony works, unfortunately I cant get a sony experia. ****. Im going to use it for my speakers for the time. But it was portable for a reason yknow?



Hmmm... i set my volume between 7 and 10 (max is 25 or 30? I forgot) on the IQ. Did you check the volume on the phone itself? It is related if you don't use a specific app for USB audio output.
I'm using "Onkyo HF Player" app from Google Playstore - it should handle USB DAC better if you haven't tried that. ( they have a free version, or you can get a "USB Player Pro" demo from another dev)


----------



## TheGame21x

(Click the above Image to view larger size)

The Sabaj DA3 is a really good sounding piece of equipment, in both desktop (as a standalone DAC feeding a more powerful amp) and portable (like above or with a laptop) settings. It doesn't have a ton of output power, even if you opt to use the 2.5mm balanced port but for low impedance, high sensitivity loads like the Massdrop Plus IEM I have pictured there, it's a satisfyingly powerful setup that sounds great. I've had the DA3 for a while and it's a great performer, no matter what I've thrown at it so I'm very pleased with it for the $96 or so I spent on Amazon.


----------



## DJRSP

Did Apple finally cut support to the third party cables?

I have the FiiO L19 cables which were working with my iDea and iPhone X just last month but after a string of new updates, doesn't appear to work anymore.

Will check with my iPad as well

However the camera kit cable does work with th iDea


----------



## cash1489

SounDenthusias said:


> So i bought it and i can only barely hear it at max everything on my phone. I have a Droid Turbo 2. This happens every time. Im getting a new phone soon, what phone works, do you know why your sony works, unfortunately I cant get a sony experia. ****. Im going to use it for my speakers for the time. But it was portable for a reason yknow?



Yes it seems like Moto does some weird things with their phones...I tried a Zorloo ZuperDAC-S (same ESS SABRE chipset) on an old moto G and it didn't work either...I read somewhere that someone was able to get it to work by putting a USB OTG cable between the phone and the DAC. You can try that if your phone has a Micro USB connection.  I plan to give it a try when I get a chance just for kicks...


----------



## DjBobby

DJRSP said:


> Did Apple finally cut support to the third party cables?
> 
> I have the FiiO L19 cables which were working with my iDea and iPhone X just last month but after a string of new updates, doesn't appear to work anymore.
> 
> ...


Just checked mine and the L19 is normally working with the iOS 11.2.5. Try restarting your iPhone. I had some issues with the Airplay after the latest update, couldn't find any devices in the network.. After switching off and on, everything was OK.


----------



## DJRSP (Feb 14, 2018)

DjBobby said:


> Just checked mine and the L19 is normally working with the iOS 11.2.5. Try restarting your iPhone. I had some issues with the Airplay after the latest update, couldn't find any devices in the network.. After switching off and on, everything was OK.



Really? I'm using 11.2.5 too and restarted the phone twice, and still not working
I also tried on my iPad and it did not work either
When plugging the lightning end into my iOS devices with the FiiO cable, I see that the SMSL turns blue and than starts flickering red. I can hear an audible pop as well.
I than try the same exercise with my camera kit cable, and no issues working (just a few occasional pops)

I am sharing these videos so you can see what I mean
Sorry for being all over the place with the camera, I was one handing the recording
*
Not Working *(FiiO Cable)
https://streamable.com/vnf1h

*Working *(Apple Camera Kit Cable)
https://streamable.com/jtq2r


----------



## DjBobby (Feb 16, 2018)

DJRSP said:


> Really? I'm using 11.2.5 too and restarted the phone twice, and still not working
> I also tried on my iPad and it did not work either
> When plugging the lightning end into my iOS devices with the FiiO cable, I see that the SMSL turns blue and than starts flickering red. I can hear an audible pop as well.
> I than try the same exercise with my camera kit cable, and no issues working (just a few occasional pops)
> ...


Strange...just checked with the iPad Air2 and the iPad Pro, works fine. Are you sure that it is not a faulty FiiO cable?


----------



## DJRSP

I have two of them, and both are producing the same results. I really don't think they are faulty but its definitely not the iDea so not sure.
Will try on some other phones as well but no go on my iPad either.


----------



## Dragonmilenario

I just ordered a unit that will now accompany my Meze 99 Classics.
Does anyone know how they match together?
On paper I think may be good, because the Meze are a bit dark and sure to feel good a little brightness.


----------



## cash1489

I think that should be a good match, those ESS DAC lean towards a somewhat bright wide open sound...and those Meze headphones are very easy to drive, should sound nice...



Dragonmilenario said:


> I just ordered a unit that will now accompany my Meze 99 Classics.
> Does anyone know how they match together?
> On paper I think may be good, because the Meze are a bit dark and sure to feel good a little brightness.


----------



## Jack-A

Dragonmilenario said:


> I just ordered a unit that will now accompany my Meze 99 Classics.
> Does anyone know how they match together?
> On paper I think may be good, because the Meze are a bit dark and sure to feel good a little brightness.


I'm not good at reviewing but to my ears they work just fine together. Of course there are better devices but at this price range you really can't go wrong.
My perfectly portable couple:


----------



## duo8

Is the Da2 discontinued? Can't find it on taobao


----------



## Makahl

duo8 said:


> Is the Da2 discontinued? Can't find it on taobao



Well, you can easily find it on aliexpress.


----------



## ColinMacLaren

Does the DA3 work straight out of a phone? How much power does it draw? Which calbes are included? Is is (and dthe DA2) more on the warmer or brighter side?


----------



## Dragonmilenario

I´m very pleased with the sound of this dac and it works just fine with the Meze´s 

I cannot think in any better option for the price.


----------



## zazaboy

guys I want to buy sabaj da2 or sabaj da3 ... I need more volume from android lollipop android system... can I get more volume boost from these sabaj da2/da3 ... what to do you think guys... I suffer from very low volume at some iems... I want to boost the volume to some serious levels


----------



## PlantsmanTX

ColinMacLaren said:


> Does the DA3 work straight out of a phone? How much power does it draw? Which calbes are included? Is is (and dthe DA2) more on the warmer or brighter side?


I have the SMSL Idea, and I would say it's pretty neutral.


----------



## amit3172

TheGame21x said:


> (Click the above Image to view larger size)
> 
> The Sabaj DA3 is a really good sounding piece of equipment, in both desktop (as a standalone DAC feeding a more powerful amp) and portable (like above or with a laptop) settings. It doesn't have a ton of output power, even if you opt to use the 2.5mm balanced port but for low impedance, high sensitivity loads like the Massdrop Plus IEM I have pictured there, it's a satisfyingly powerful setup that sounds great. I've had the DA3 for a while and it's a great performer, no matter what I've thrown at it so I'm very pleased with it for the $96 or so I spent on Amazon.



Hi TheGame21x,

Thank you for this information. I have Sabaj DA3 which works on my laptop without any issues. But this doesn't work on any of my mobile device. I have tried it on Lenovo Z2 Plus, Lenovo K5 Plus, Oneplus 5T, but it doesn't work with any of them. It doesn't get powered on.

Your setup looks promising. Can you help me with the "hub" that you are using so that I can also try the same setup?


----------



## TheGame21x

amit3172 said:


> Hi TheGame21x,
> 
> Thank you for this information. I have Sabaj DA3 which works on my laptop without any issues. But this doesn't work on any of my mobile device. I have tried it on Lenovo Z2 Plus, Lenovo K5 Plus, Oneplus 5T, but it doesn't work with any of them. It doesn't get powered on.
> 
> Your setup looks promising. Can you help me with the "hub" that you are using so that I can also try the same setup?



The hub I'm using isn't really a "hub", it's Apple's proprietary Lightning to USB 3.0 Camera Connection Kit, which has a lightning port built in for powering devices that need more power than an iPhone/iPad can provide, which is the only way I can use the Sabaj DA3 with my phone. The DA3 requires too much power to run from a phone alone, so it needs to be connected to a hub of some sort with external power. There are a number of USB OTG hubs for android devices that should allow you to connect a battery pack/external charger to power the DA3. I hope that helps!


----------



## LordZero

You think this one could drive 400ohms earbuds?


----------



## theoutsider

I logged into aliX to get a pair of NiceHCK EBX earbuds.. but I ended up ordering a Sabaj DA3...


----------



## FastAndClean

theoutsider said:


> I logged into aliX to get a pair of NiceHCK EBX earbuds.. but I ended up ordering a Sabaj DA3...


wise move


----------



## theoutsider

FastAndClean said:


> wise move
> *''Why is so expensive? Because it sound good.'' - Fang Bian*


I hope it is sound good.


----------



## Researcher

What is the best way to connect DA2 to Iphone X?


----------



## LordZero

The da3 sound better than the e10k?


----------



## Researcher

just shot DA2 as it is ridiculously tempting . i will share my experience here.


----------



## PlantsmanTX

LordZero said:


> You think this one could drive 400ohms earbuds?


I don't know, but in the first smsl idea review I saw, the reviewer used it with the 300 ohm Massdrop HD 6xx headphones.


----------



## dc655321

LordZero said:


> You think this one could drive 400ohms earbuds?





PlantsmanTX said:


> I don't know, but in the first smsl idea review I saw, the reviewer used it with the 300 ohm Massdrop HD 6xx headphones.



I would think 400 Ohm would be a stretch with the iDEA. It's not really designed to drive heavy loads.
But, it depends on the efficiency or sensitivity of the earbuds (i.e. dB SPL/V or dB SPL/mW).
And how loud you like to listen 

I use the iDEA with my hd6xx all the time. 
Full blast is louder than I would ever listen for any length of time, so I usually keep it around 75-80% volume (15-16 clicks).
Plus, I think it's clipping at full blast, but I have not measured that.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 11, 2018)

Guys, is there a better option here?







I have no clue which one is the best option or if it's just some ASIO option.


----------



## BenF

Makahl said:


> Guys, is there a better option here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unless you experience playback issues with "Standard", there is no reason to change it.


----------



## Makahl (Apr 12, 2018)

BenF said:


> Unless you experience playback issues with "Standard", there is no reason to change it.



Thank you!

The default option was set up as _"Reliable"_. I just changed to _"Standard"_ since that makes more sense, lol.


----------



## Koei (Apr 12, 2018)

This should be a massive upgrade from the direct output of my Galaxy S6? Or are there any issues running this from the S6? How does it compare to the Dragonfly Black and Red? I'll be using them with Oppo PM-3's.

I'm really looking for something that is:


Super compact
Can be used from a phone and desktop (at work I don't want a big rig)
Has an input cable that can be swapped (I don't want to be stuck with either a micro usb or usb c connection on the side that goes into my phone/pc)


----------



## Koei

cash1489 said:


> Yes it seems like Moto does some weird things with their phones...I tried a Zorloo ZuperDAC-S (same ESS SABRE chipset) on an old moto G and it didn't work either...I read somewhere that someone was able to get it to work by putting a USB OTG cable between the phone and the DAC. You can try that if your phone has a Micro USB connection.  I plan to give it a try when I get a chance just for kicks...



I see you have both the ZuperDAC-S and the SMSL iDEA. Which of the two would you recommend with headphones?


----------



## alka7ex

sorry for asking some stupid question.

did its works with xiaomi mi5s plus (type c)

i ask this because my friend try fiio k1 using mi6 (type c) and its didnt works
and i try (by my self) using a fiio q1 mk2 and its works but its hard for connect them like always failed couple times


----------



## Griffith (Apr 29, 2018)

alka7ex said:


> sorry for asking some stupid question.
> 
> did its works with xiaomi mi5s plus (type c)
> 
> ...



It works with my Mi5 with the caveat that I have to put the music on play before I plug it in. Other than that it works fine. 

I had trouble with my Fiio and a previous Xiaomi the Mi4i.


----------



## redryder

Anyone here downgraded the firmware to 1.1 on the Da2? I did it because the popping sound was driving me nuts when I used it on my phone. Every time I need to reinsert a couple of times before I could use. 

After downgrading the popping sound has gone away. BUT the DA2 LED now does not change colors anymore. It just stays blue whether I'm playing a 16bit flac or a DSD file. I'm still getting sound from the iems that are plugged into the DAC, but I don't know if DSD is actually playing anymore or being downsampled. Anyone else experienced the same?


----------



## Griffith (May 4, 2018)

Sorry I wouldn't know because I didn't downgrade the firmware. The software support for the device is a bit abysmal though. It's sad that SMSL remains so quiet about it and seems to have dropped support for it rather than trying to make it more compatible.


----------



## Makahl

Whenever I'm listening to some song through a sensitive IEM and I pause it I can hear a low background noise which remains for 5-10secs then the noise disappears. Is it normal?


----------



## dc655321

Makahl said:


> Whenever I'm listening to some song through a sensitive IEM and I pause it I can hear a low background noise which remains for 5-10secs then the noise disappears. Is it normal?



That does not sound normal.
Can you try through a different usb port?
Also, is it volume sensitive? i.e. does the noise get louder/quieter with volume increase/decrease?


----------



## Makahl

dc655321 said:


> That does not sound normal.
> Can you try through a different usb port?
> Also, is it volume sensitive? i.e. does the noise get louder/quieter with volume increase/decrease?



Oh... I figured out the problem, I remember I've changed in the XMOS driver the option _Reliable _to _Standard _at _"USB Streaming Mode"_ but now changing back to "Reliable" this noise problem is gone. Hopefully, it was just that! Thank you!


----------



## stevenalong

I just received on of these and it doesn’t work with my IPhone8. It says too much power. Is this not designed to work with the IPhone?


----------



## stevenalong

niron said:


> Works well, but you need the Camera Kit.


I’m trying to use it with my IPhone8 with the camera adapter and it says too much power.


----------



## Beechedwhale8

Would the ifi iEMatch make the sabaj DA3 output impedance suitable for Andromedas, while still being loud enough? DA3 sounds good with my PM3's, but contemplating pulling the trigger on some Andromedas soon.


----------



## Chessblitzer2017 (May 28, 2018)

I have the smsl idea working great coming from the back port of my computer, but weird thing is the xmos control panel says no devices connected so i cant adjust the usb streaming mode or anything else if there even is anything else XD cause i wouldnt know. Its version 4.38

Update: Fixed issue, just had too reinstall the driver then restart cpu. All good.


----------



## Chessblitzer2017 (May 28, 2018)

Also, for those of you looking for a surround system/equalizer that works with the smsl idea i use the Razer surround pro through Razer synapse which allows adjustments in bass boost, voice clarity, stereo enhancement and a full range equalizer. Very nice for those that wish too be able too control bass and voice forwardness and voice volume level increase each from 1-100%. Is a godsend really(thank you Razer <3). If you have bought 1 Razer product its free, if not I think there is a small charge, not sure as i bought a razer keyboard. It allows you too choose the playback device(high def audio advice, smsl usb dac, digital audio etc) in the surround pro settings, very simple. Enjoy


----------



## Chessblitzer2017 (May 28, 2018)

stevenalong said:


> I’m trying to use it with my IPhone8 with the camera adapter and it says too much power.


I know that when I connect it too the front port of my computer it  says surge and needs more power. The back ports provide more power and work great, got a 3 foot extension chord cause the headphone cable aint long enough. Its 6 bucks free shipping on ebay. Not sure about your iphone but droid works great(just know you need to play some music or something before plugging in the smsl too your droid or it makes buzz sound through earbuds, i dont mind at all). I also use it too power 2 average desktop speakers and it does great, hUUUUGE(Trump wall) improvement over the computer dac/amp(and its a pretty nice hp pavilion hpe i7 tower) at higher volume levels, much less distortion.
Never have had 1 single issue with this smsl idea in months of use. Very small/slender, solid physical connection on both sides that doesnt come undone by accident(unless I suppose you give a real good tug).
Couldnt imagine you could get better for 85 dollars, this is my first dac and amp and couldnt be more satisfied.
3 Ft Feet SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Type A Male to A Female Extension Cable on ebay


----------



## HardstyleLoco96 (May 28, 2018)

Hello, I am currently looking at the SMSL Idea to use with my HTC 10, I like the price and from what I am hearing, it sounds better than the AQ Dragonfly Red? I have used a Fiio Q5 before and was seriously impressed with what I heard but price is a bit high and I am on budget. If anyone has experience with the HTC 10 and the SMSL idea could you let me know how it's going for you please . I am also up for other options though as long that it doesn't break the bank. If there is something that has better sq than the SMSL idea for a great price i'd try it. I'd be using my Oriveti New Primacy with a Effect Audio Ares ii cable. I have owned a Fiio Q1 MKii, so if the SMSL idea is a upgrade with the dac and sq. Then it is a no brainer


----------



## hiflofi

How do the DAC and amp components (individiually) of the SMSL IDEA/Sabaj Da2 compare to the Fiio E10K?

Is the DAC on the SMSL IDEA better than the Fiio E10K? Is the amp less powerful? I think the amp is less powerful for sure.


----------



## DjBobby

hiflofi said:


> How do the DAC and amp components (individiually) of the SMSL IDEA/Sabaj Da2 compare to the Fiio E10K?
> 
> Is the DAC on the SMSL IDEA better than the Fiio E10K? Is the amp less powerful? I think the amp is less powerful for sure.


Dac section of the SMSL is more modern and much cleaner, the amp section is weak. Good for iems and some easy to drive on-ears, FiiO wins there clearly.


----------



## dc655321

DjBobby said:


> Good for iems and some easy to drive on-ears



I routinely use the iDEA with my hd-6xx, so I disagree that the dac's use-cases are limited to "easy to drive" 'phones.
Fact is, many people listen to headphones way too loud (myself included, until very recently!).

Check out some data here for the HD-650 - at 0.225 Vrms, the headphones are already hitting 90 dB SPL.
That's fairly loud. Too loud for prolonged listening (hours).

I made some recent measurements that show that the iDEA hits about 0.2 Vrms at 13/20 clicks on the volume buttons.
Listening at 13 clicks still yields 20 dB of headroom before peak-clipping becomes an issue.
That's fine for most modern recordings (except maybe classical?).


----------



## DjBobby

dc655321 said:


> I routinely use the iDEA with my hd-6xx, so I disagree that the dac's use-cases are limited to "easy to drive" 'phones.
> Fact is, many people listen to headphones way too loud (myself included, until very recently!).
> 
> Check out some data here for the HD-650 - at 0.225 Vrms, the headphones are already hitting 90 dB SPL.
> ...


According to the headphone power table, HD650 needs 7.1 Vrms for 120db SPL. Of course 120db is way to load for continual listening, but in the classical music there are big dynamic peaks and sudden outbursts. If the amp section is not able to deliver that voltage very quickly, the sound becomes flat and lifeless. 

On the other hand we have low impedance headphones which need current. According to Archimago's review, iDEAS is "_rated at 49mW into a 32-ohm load, THD 0.1%. This means that if you have low impedance and low sensitivity headphones, there might not be enough current to drive these demanding loads."
_
Here is the full review with measurements: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html


----------



## dc655321

DjBobby said:


> but in the classical music there are big dynamic peaks and sudden outbursts. If the amp section is not able to deliver that voltage very quickly, the sound becomes flat and lifeless.



I would expect the sound to become harsh/bright as the waveform clips, not flat/lifeless.
But, I suppose the effect on the sound of the clipping is somewhat dependent on the nature of the source material too.
The peaks essentially become square waves at clipping, contributing odd-harmonic distortion and IMD.



DjBobby said:


> On the other hand we have low impedance headphones which need current. According to Archimago's review, iDEAS is "_rated at 49mW into a 32-ohm load, THD 0.1%. This means that if you have low impedance and low sensitivity headphones, there might not be enough current to drive these demanding loads."_



Yeah, it was Archimago's blog post that convinced me to try the iDEA in the first place.
Other measurements here, indicate about 40 mA are available before clipping.
Using my ~15 Ohm FLC8S iems (definitely not low sensitivity), that implies clipping at ~0.6 Vrms, which still gives ~30 dB of headroom.
That's fine for my crappy music collection 

So, the take-away message - Power: more is better, within reason?


----------



## DjBobby (Jun 6, 2018)

dc655321 said:


> I would expect the sound to become harsh/bright as the waveform clips, not flat/lifeless.
> But, I suppose the effect on the sound of the clipping is somewhat dependent on the nature of the source material too.
> The peaks essentially become square waves at clipping, contributing odd-harmonic distortion and IMD.


Agree completely on that.
On the other hand, the iDea as a dac, with maxed volume and connected to an external amp, sounds surprisingly well. Very clean and with big and wide soundstage for such small device.


----------



## dc655321

DjBobby said:


> Very clean and with big and wide soundstage for such small device.



Yeah, the little bugger never ceases to impress me with its clarity and black background.
Even when I used it with my Andromeda iems, I could not detect any hint of the noise floor, and those 'phones will call out amplifier hissing like little else.
The only feature I would wish for my use-case is more granular/finer volume control (40-50 steps instead of 20). But that's a fairly minor detail...
Cheers.


----------



## Zerohour88 (Jun 7, 2018)

Dunno if there's anyone still active here, but couldn't find a better place to ask this. Was interested in the SMSL IDEA/Sabaj DA2, but I recently came across this:

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c.w4002-15493940501.70.763e1cfaRvjmOk&id=568408593852

Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 USB DAC ES9028 with SA9226 USB chip






its unbelievably cheap and the company itself have been around for quite a while.

Though I would've preferred an XMOS chip, but it seems the SA9226 is no slouch either (hopefully no driver issues).

Another thing I'm wondering is that there's no amp specified in the specs list (or I missed it). Doesn't Sabre DAC chips usually need a separate op-amp?


----------



## dc655321

Zerohour88 said:


> Another thing I'm wondering is that there's no amp specified in the specs list (or I missed it). Doesn't Sabre DAC chips usually need a separate op-amp?



The es99028q2m that this unit has definitely requires an output stage with amplification.
In fact, what looks like an op-amp can be seen in the photo you posted, beside the headphone port.


----------



## Zerohour88

dc655321 said:


> The es99028q2m that this unit has definitely requires an output stage with amplification.
> In fact, what looks like an op-amp can be seen in the photo you posted, beside the headphone port.



What I thought too, but since the pic provided is still quite blurry, can't make out the model. I guess the fact that they doesn't include it in the specs list does worry me a bit. It does say runs stuff from 16ohm to 150ohm earphone/headphone, so there's that (the Sabre site for ES9028Q2M shows a diagram with 8-600ohm, curiously enough)


----------



## maxxevv

The SA9226 actually runs perfectly fine on Win7 and Foobar. Just make sure the seller provides the driver for it. The Savi Bravo drivers are impossible to find online.  No drivers needed for Android but will need Apple certification to run on iPhone though. 

I have a similar ES9028Q2M DAC Amp from Breeze Audio too. If you search, its called the E19, comes with a 12V battery and dual single-channel DIP-8 op-amps. Mine won't connect up with iPhones. 
The one you see above as pointed out has a dual channel, 8 pin, SMT type op-amp right next to the jack mount.


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Pulled the trigger on silver Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 from eBay for 44USD. Couldn't resist having a new budget toy to play around with. Will give my impressions the moment it arrives and detailed photos of the insides.


----------



## Zerohour88

Hal Rockwell said:


> Pulled the trigger on silver Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 from eBay for 44USD. Couldn't resist having a new budget toy to play around with. Will give my impressions the moment it arrives and detailed photos of the insides.



I'm honestly so close to also purchasing it, but since not in a rush, just gonna chill so I don't get my expectations up. A look on the solder quality would be quite nice (as with a closer look on the op-amp used).


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Zerohour88 said:


> I'm honestly so close to also purchasing it, but since not in a rush, just gonna chill so I don't get my expectations up. A look on the solder quality would be quite nice (as with a closer look on the op-amp used).



Will do. I'm pretty sure that the solder quality is on par with other DACs in its price range. The op-amp used intrigues me as well.


----------



## maxxevv

If you prefer some flexibility in terms of having a battery and the option to roll op-amps, would suggest the E19. It uses the same DAC chip, and has a wide range of  qualityop-amps for you to swap should you find the build in 5534 too plain. 
The battery is useful for driving heavier hitting headphones should you need it.  Of course you would have to trade off the size though, as its bigger.


----------



## Griffith (Jun 11, 2018)

For those who are interested in the OnePlus 6 and own an SMSL iDEA I want to confirm that it works. I enabled USB OTG in the advanced options and USB Audio mode on the developer options and that's all it took.

I am running the latest version of the rom at the time of posting and this may change in the future once they update to Android 9 but as of now, it works fine and sounds great.


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Does anyone knows if Weiliang/Breeze Audio have an official website?


----------



## Zerohour88

Hal Rockwell said:


> Does anyone knows if Weiliang/Breeze Audio have an official website?



None that I can find. You can try your luck directly contacting the aliexpress official store (or better yet, the taobao official store, provided you have a translator).


----------



## Hal Rockwell

So, I just received the Weiliang Audio SE4.




 


The soldering seems fine and tidy. Not sloppy or anything. The mystery IC by the output socket is definitely an op-amp - TI OPA2132 to be exact.

Connecting to a phone is easy and doesn't introduce any of the problems of the iDEA. Just plug in and it works.

Later on, I'll compare it with other DACs in its class and price category. I'm still waiting for the Covia ZEAL EDGE to arrive (maybe next week). For now, the SE4 seems like a solid purchase at its current price.


----------



## Zerohour88

Hal Rockwell said:


> So, I just received the Weiliang Audio SE4.
> 
> 
> The soldering seems fine and tidy. Not sloppy or anything. The mystery IC by the output socket is definitely an op-amp - TI OPA2132 to be exact.
> ...



wow, I was expecting the Savi chip to be more hassle than the XMOS, lol. Gonna hook it up to my Samsung S5, but maybe it will spend more time on the PC, tbh.

a decent plug and play USB DAC for less than $50, its definitely getting interesting even in the budget bracket. 

the absence of volume control on the DAC itself isn't a problem, I assume?


----------



## Hal Rockwell

Zerohour88 said:


> wow, I was expecting the Savi chip to be more hassle than the XMOS, lol. Gonna hook it up to my Samsung S5, but maybe it will spend more time on the PC, tbh.
> 
> a decent plug and play USB DAC for less than $50, its definitely getting interesting even in the budget bracket.
> 
> the absence of volume control on the DAC itself isn't a problem, I assume?



Sometimes the volume control on the DAC itself is a hassle, since it collides with the phone volume control. I just use the Fine Volume Control app to precisely control the volume since I use other DACs that have no controls like the HIFIMEDIY.


----------



## rendyG

Hal Rockwell said:


> So, I just received the Weiliang Audio SE4.
> 
> 
> The soldering seems fine and tidy. Not sloppy or anything. The mystery IC by the output socket is definitely an op-amp - TI OPA2132 to be exact.
> ...



How do you find this DAC? I am planning to buy Sabaj da2 (IDEA) or da3 (IQ). I would appreciate any comparison.
Also, did anyone here perform some testing against desktop dacs? I want to use one of these dacs mainly with my Fiio K5 amp, do you think these portable guys can compete with desktop dacs in similar price range?


----------



## Hal Rockwell

rendyG said:


> How do you find this DAC? I am planning to buy Sabaj da2 (IDEA) or da3 (IQ). I would appreciate any comparison.
> Also, did anyone here perform some testing against desktop dacs? I want to use one of these dacs mainly with my Fiio K5 amp, do you think these portable guys can compete with desktop dacs in similar price range?



I find the DAC great but I don't own any of the other DACs you mentioned to do a comparison.


----------



## Zerohour88

rendyG said:


> How do you find this DAC? I am planning to buy Sabaj da2 (IDEA) or da3 (IQ). I would appreciate any comparison.
> Also, did anyone here perform some testing against desktop dacs? I want to use one of these dacs mainly with my Fiio K5 amp, do you think these portable guys can compete with desktop dacs in similar price range?



Amirm from ASR forums purchased the SE4 for measurements, so you might have to wait another week or two before he can compare it.

I'm mainly interested in the power and impedance output values, since I'd love to use it with both IEMs and headphones.


----------



## Wong Jawi (Jul 23, 2018)

I got a week ago. this is my note:
1. very loud volume. My headphone is akg k7xx, it only takes less than 1/4 level of volume, it's been very loud.
2. rapidly drain my handphone battery (nubia)
3. if used for streaming app from android (example: spotify), then sound signature will not change. sounds exactly like production by nubia. So this DAC only works like an amplifier only. (of course not in practice). This is a classic android problem with digital sound via usb. not a problem in this dac/ upsample problem. (so you do not get disappointed with this DAC)
4. if used to play flac / dsd through hiby music in android, choose setting: "Exclusive HQ USB audio access", then digital sound via USB to DAC is pure. This DAC will shine.
5. if used for streaming spotify app from windows, i use version 10, then  DAC will shine as well. So I just use this DAC to be paired with notebook only. temporarily resting Fiio X7 II while charging .
5. So how is the sound signature in general? I have been familiar with ess dac, starting from Fiio X7 I, II, and hiby R6, exactly this is the implementation of the ES family. Very typical. All the details came out, very airy, quite flat and neutral. the soundstage is very wide left right, only the depth is less. separation between the instruments is quite subtle.
6. compare with other DAC? I used to have only Fiio E17K. Clearly SE4 is better for the sound division. I am also waiting for this comparison review with SMSL Idea, which is not so I bought considering SE4 is cheaper.


----------



## Zerohour88

Wong Jawi said:


> I got a week ago. this is my note:
> 1. very loud volume. My headphone is akg k7xx, it only takes less than 1/4 level of volume, it's been very loud.
> 2. rapidly drain my handphone battery (nubia)
> 3. if used for streaming app from android (example: spotify), then sound signature will not change. sounds exactly like production by nubia. So this DAC only works like an amplifier only. (of course not in practice). This is a classic android problem with digital sound via usb. not a problem in this dac/ upsample problem. (so you do not get disappointed with this DAC)
> ...



Nice, I've actually ordered it too (since I needed some silver cables from china), couldn't resist while waiting for those ASR measurements. Everyone who got the SE4 seems to really like them and encountered no glaring issues like hissing or driver problems.


----------



## maxxevv

Wong Jawi said:


> 2. rapidly drain my handphone battery (nubia)
> 
> 4. if used to play flac / dsd through hiby music in android, choose setting: "Exclusive HQ USB audio access", then digital sound via USB to DAC is pure. This DAC will shine.
> .



Get a dual OTG cable /hub that allows you to plug a power supply in while connected to the DAC.  

As for the playback quality, its an Android OS issue, (supposedly solved with version 8.0.) Other than programs that allow "bit perfect" output, it sounds pretty bland. 

You can use UAPP and Onkyo player too for bit perfect output.


----------



## Blackfyre

I own the Pixel 2 XL and a Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Over-Ear which I use in bed to watch Netflix or listen to music.

I am considering the Sabaj DA2 which costs $99 in Australia, another option is the Topping NX2s which costs $110, and the FiiO Q1 Mark II which costs $139

I believe the former two are plug and play, no issues with Micro-USB to USB-C directly into the phone, right? Not sure about the FiiO though...

Is there a significant difference between these products based on their prices? What's the recommendation?

Since the Momentum 2.0 Over-Ear's are 18 Ohm impedance, I wouldn't really require a strong AMP. What's most important for me is sound quality, volume should be easy to push with any of these DAC's.


----------



## Makahl

Blackfyre said:


> I own the Pixel 2 XL and a Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Over-Ear which I use in bed to watch Netflix or listen to music.
> 
> I am considering the Sabaj DA2 which costs $99 in Australia, another option is the Topping NX2s which costs $110, and the FiiO Q1 Mark II which costs $139
> 
> ...



I think FiiO Q1 MK2 will serve you better and not drain your phone's battery. Also, Sabaj DA2 can be tricky to make it work well on Androids. Some people like me can make it work flawless playing the music before plugging the DAC, others just can get noise depending of your phone. 

There was never a fix for that, just a downgrade of firmware which apparently solve it but you can't revert afterward.


----------



## Zerohour88

Blackfyre said:


> I own the Pixel 2 XL and a Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Over-Ear which I use in bed to watch Netflix or listen to music.
> 
> I am considering the Sabaj DA2 which costs $99 in Australia, another option is the Topping NX2s which costs $110, and the FiiO Q1 Mark II which costs $139
> 
> ...



Fiio Q1Mkii is relatively plug and play, used it with a Samsung S5 and Onkyo HF player, just had to enable the usb audio thing in the settings. If you're willing to spend the extra, the Fiio is a great little box, lots of power to drive even headphones (I think Zeos used it to review his HD660). Surprisingly light despite the built-in battery. Also have balanced output should you decide to venture in such stuff.

Sabaj DA2 (and SMSL IDEA) seems to suffer from some QC problems on certain units, but the sample size isn't that big. A great unit on a budget. 

Still waiting on the Breeze Audio/Weiliang SE4, but from the 5 guys who purchased it after I posted info on the unit, looks like its also a good offering. Maybe they'll report back if there are any durability issues afterwards, but 200+ purchase on the taobao listing, seems good so far.


----------



## Hal Rockwell

maxxevv said:


> Get a dual OTG cable /hub that allows you to plug a power supply in while connected to the DAC.
> 
> As for the playback quality, its an Android OS issue, (supposedly solved with version 8.0.) Other than programs that allow "bit perfect" output, it sounds pretty bland.
> 
> You can use UAPP and Onkyo player too for bit perfect output.



Can you please provide a link for such USB HUB? Is there a USB-C version of it?


----------



## Zerohour88

Finally got the Breeze Audio/Weiliang SE4 after numerous shipment delays, liking it so far. Used with TO180 and SHP9500, nearly blew my ears out since on Android it went directly to max volume on Onkyo player (volume adjustment is whacked out for some reason, I can't lower it down else it'll just go back to max).

Windows, needed a Savi Audio driver and all is well (a bit warm on usage, but wasn't much hassle on setup either). Opened it up to look at the solder job, apart from some leftover flux, everything was super clean. Plus with the 3 cables given, its quite good value.

Gonna use it as my daily DAC on the PC, should be a fair test on durability.


----------



## miwashi

Any more cheap places to buy this? Mass drop does not carry it anymore.


----------



## BenF

miwashi said:


> Any more cheap places to buy this? Mass drop does not carry it anymore.


See the end of the first post for a discount on iDea :https://www.head-fi.org/threads/takstar-pro-82-review-impressions-and-discussion-thread.849965/


----------



## Miguelbazil (Sep 17, 2018)

Just installed Linux Mint on my desktop, to find that the SMSL Idea is not outputting anything. Is there any known permanent solution that won't involve me going around connecting/disconnecting my Idea? While on mobile it's doable, on the Desktop is anything but comfortable.

EDIT:
This was the detection issue, as I expected. The easy solution is to just restart linux once, and it gets detected properly, and will work as expected.


----------



## miwashi

Ok I finally got an Idea and connected it to my PC and Riva Turbo X speakers. I guess the built-in amp is not very powerful because I need to turn it to full volume, and the mixer on my desktop to full volume, and my speakers to full volume to get some sound out.

I was wondering what amps you pair with the SMSL idea to drive some speakers?


----------



## miwashi

I have been thinking of replacing my Idea with a SMSL M3, if that one has a more powerful amp. Has anyone done a comparison of the 2 before?


----------



## DjBobby

miwashi said:


> I have been thinking of replacing my Idea with a SMSL M3, if that one has a more powerful amp. Has anyone done a comparison of the 2 before?


SMSL M3 goes through USB only up to 96khz and the output impedance is highish 10 ohms. It might not work well with low impedance headphones.


----------



## airofu (Sep 14, 2018)

Will the SMSL IDEA work ok with my iPhone X using the Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter? Then connecting into a seperate headphone amp via max volume?

I noticed there are two Apple camera cables, both work?

https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MD821AM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter

https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter


----------



## DjBobby

airofu said:


> Will the SMSL IDEA work ok with my iPhone X using the Apple Lightning to USB Camera Adapter? Then connecting into a seperate headphone amp via max volume?
> 
> I noticed there are two Apple camera cables, both work?
> 
> ...


Yes, it will work, exactly that way. Max the volume and than connect the iDea to the external HP. 
You will need the fist adapter, don't know about the second one.


----------



## airofu

Perfect thanks.


----------



## airofu

I assume the SMSL Idea auto detects the source rate and plays it as it is coded? There is no way to force the sample rate only view it via the coloured LED? (what were the colours and rates?)


----------



## DjBobby

airofu said:


> I assume the SMSL Idea auto detects the source rate and plays it as it is coded? There is no way to force the sample rate only view it via the coloured LED? (what were the colours and rates?)


Yes, it autodetects the sampling rate and bit depth. 
You can do upsampling through any software. Audirvana offers upsampling which works with any dac. 
The led color doesn't change with the rate. Only blue for pcm and red for dsd.


----------



## TrantaLocked

Has really no one else had their Idea be defective? I had one with clicking sounds and the replacement with left channel that completely blew out.


----------



## Makahl

TrantaLocked said:


> Has really no one else had their Idea be defective? I had one with clicking sounds and the replacement with left channel that completely blew out.



Well, mine still working perfectly fine and it's been connected 24/7 on my laptop. Actually, I was quite surprised that I didn't get any problem on Android too as many reported (if I play the music before connecting it). 

One thing that I've noticed this thing gets really warm so if you live in a tropical place it shouldn't be hard to melt something inside and broke it.


----------



## Aibo

I had several iDEAs (and Sabaj Da2s) go through my hands and never had a faulty one. That said, they do become very warm while working - for carrying in it in a pocket with my phone I find it to be unpleasantly warm. Good thing is that's not alarming for the device itself because there aren't any temperature sensitive parts like electrolytic capacitors inside. In general, human hands are very sensitive - to us 40 C is very warm, 50 C already feels very very hot... and for electronics that's just cozy temperature. So no way anything inside will melt or broke because of this.


----------



## TrantaLocked

Aibo said:


> I had several iDEAs (and Sabaj Da2s) go through my hands and never had a faulty one. That said, they do become very warm while working - for carrying in it in a pocket with my phone I find it to be unpleasantly warm. Good thing is that's not alarming for the device itself because there aren't any temperature sensitive parts like electrolytic capacitors inside. In general, human hands are very sensitive - to us 40 C is very warm, 50 C already feels very very hot... and for electronics that's just cozy temperature. So no way anything inside will melt or broke because of this.



I used a multimeter to find out that the Sabre chip itself went bad. The left channel line blew and seems to have shorted to ground within the Sabre DAC chip, with missing continuity on the pins for the left signal exiting the DAC. When the headphone plug is completely inserted, the left channel is blasted with noise and the driver housing of the headphone heats up within seconds. My other idea had, I believe, power filtering issues, with lots of unwanted clicking and popping. I finally got another replacement after all this time of missing the Idea's sound while using the FiiO K1, and am just hoping the replacement works long term.


----------



## hakuzen

i had to ask for a replacement of iDEA because it stopped working after 1 hour play + 2 weeks resting. it was getting extremely hot, but no sound at all. guess it was due to a bad solder. sent back and the replacement works perfectly (and warm).


----------



## parthabhatta (Oct 21, 2018)

Hal Rockwell said:


> So, I just received the Weiliang Audio SE4.
> 
> 
> The soldering seems fine and tidy. Not sloppy or anything. The mystery IC by the output socket is definitely an op-amp - TI OPA2132 to be exact.
> ...



What about Covia Zeal Edge? Did you receive it? How is the sound and performance (including battery consumption) in comparison to SMSL IDEA on an android mobile?


----------



## Hal Rockwell

parthabhatta said:


> What about Covia Zeal Edge? Did you receive it? How is the sound and performance (including battery consumption) in comparison to SMSL IDEA on an android device ?



Well, I don't own the iDea so I can't compare.


----------



## parthabhatta

Hal Rockwell said:


> Well, I don't own the iDea so I can't compare.



Oh sorry man. I was intending to say Weiliang SE4 and not SMSL IDEA. Its my bad. Please give your opinion for Covia Zeal Vs Weiliang SE4.


----------



## gabetjh

anyone else's IDEA just suddenly died. mine suddenly did not work. the blue light is turned on but windows cant detect even after reinstalling driver and changing USB cables and changing USB ports and restarting windows -.-

any other cheap alternatives? the IDEA is just perfect for my use with zero noise floor.. but sadly i bought it 2nd hand and after few weeks of use it just doesnt work anymore


----------



## Aibo

If you liked the Idea, Sabaj Da2 is exactly same device with slightly cheaper price tag.


----------



## gabetjh

Aibo said:


> If you liked the Idea, Sabaj Da2 is exactly same device with slightly cheaper price tag.


 
yea i might get the sabaj da2. thinking whether will there be a difference getting the da3. disappointed with my smsl idea when its perfect


----------



## Aibo (Nov 4, 2018)

Da3 is bigger and feels sturdier. To my ears it does sound a little bit better than Idea/Da2, it has a bit more weight and punch in the bass. But I guess it depends on the rest of the system if it is much noticeable to you and does it justify the price difference. Important to know it can't be connected to the phone because of higher power consumption, if that's important to you.


----------



## gabetjh

Aibo said:


> Da3 is bigger and feels sturdier. To my ears it does sound a little bit better than Idea/Da2, it has a bit more weight and punch in the bass. But I guess it depends on the rest of the system if it is much noticeable to you and does it justify the price difference. Important to know it can't be connected to the phone because of higher power consumption, if that's important to you.



i think the sabaj da2 will be a better choice because of the lower impedance yea?


----------



## Aibo

I wouldn't worry about impedance... it's fine for most cases. But if you already had and liked the Idea then Da2 is a safe bet.


----------



## gabetjh

Aibo said:


> I wouldn't worry about impedance... it's fine for most cases. But if you already had and liked the Idea then Da2 is a safe bet.


yea fair enough. i’ll definitely get the da2. i’m just worried the same thing will happen to it as well. gonna open up the smsl idea and find out the issue


----------



## kevinscottcaja

So, I got the SMSL iDEA from Aliexpress. After one week of use, all I can say is its perfectly neutral. Pairs good on warm sounding IEMs like my Final Audio E5000, very wide soudstage and treble has more sparkle yet not fatiguing. It works on iPhone + HF Player well with up sampling to High Precision DSD 5.6Mhz although I have to unplug and replug every time because of that static noise, although that only happens on HF Player, other players are not affected and plays normally fine. YouTube, Spotify, Tidal and Apple Music works fine, basically plug and play. I'm using the new CZY cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/COZ...icro-usb-Upgrade-cables-made/32953095735.html) to connect to my iPhone X. I've never tried the USB 3 CCK from Apple yet but if it works with HF Player without unplug replug then I'll probably move to CCK. Attached on my MacBook Pro 2017 via USB C also works fine. Although my main use for this is for iPhone for now. All in all, very happy with my setup.


----------



## Chessblitzer2017

Exciting little booger ain't she


----------



## RobbS (Nov 6, 2018)

Function aside, I'm not a fan of the sharp blocky aesthetic of these. SMSL does make some well designed equipment (I like my AD18), but these did not appeal to me the first time I checked them out.

I'll admit that it has grown on me a bit and I'm willing to let it slide because of the convenient size.


----------



## tripside

kevinscottcaja said:


> So, I got the SMSL iDEA from Aliexpress. After one week of use, all I can say is its perfectly neutral. Pairs good on warm sounding IEMs like my Final Audio E5000, very wide soudstage and treble has more sparkle yet not fatiguing. It works on iPhone + HF Player well with up sampling to High Precision DSD 5.6Mhz although I have to unplug and replug every time because of that static noise, although that only happens on HF Player, other players are not affected and plays normally fine. YouTube, Spotify, Tidal and Apple Music works fine, basically plug and play. I'm using the new CZY cable (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/COZ...icro-usb-Upgrade-cables-made/32953095735.html) to connect to my iPhone X. I've never tried the USB 3 CCK from Apple yet but if it works with HF Player without unplug replug then I'll probably move to CCK. Attached on my MacBook Pro 2017 via USB C also works fine. Although my main use for this is for iPhone for now. All in all, very happy with my setup.



How much of an improvent is it over the lightning to 3.5mm dongle ? Have you noticed a dip in battery life ?


----------



## Chessblitzer2017

Honestly with just a few hours of listening with the es100 I find myself with a reaffirmed stronger bond with the airy spacious soundstage of this Idea. Wonderful little guy.


----------



## kevinscottcaja

tripside said:


> How much of an improvent is it over the lightning to 3.5mm dongle ? Have you noticed a dip in battery life ?


Overall, a noticeable improvement over the Apple 3.5mm dongle. Stereo separation is much better, even rivaling my ES100 in balanced mode, if not, even a tad better than my ES100. Feels very holographic sound like you are in a large stage.
Using my FAD E5000 as my primary IEMs, I was immediately blown away on how much details are revealed, treble became more pronounced and bass became leaner, most of all, soundstage became much much more wider. Driving them off my Apple 3.5mm dongle, they sound bassy and overly warm sometimes, but from the iDEA they sound amazing. Trying them off on my UMPro50 v2 and same goes as well, bass became much fuller, sub bass hits much better and I can hear them and treble are more pronounced without being fatiguing. The iDEA pairs really well on warm sounding IEMs and low impedance and low sensitivity IEMs requiring loads of driving power (mWatts).

For battery life, my iPhone X drops about 6% to 8% per hour when screen is off and music playing on HF Player. It drops around 10% to 12% per hour if I'm listening to music and browsing through safari at the same time.


----------



## Chessblitzer2017 (Nov 9, 2018)

@Kevin The es100 doesn't really compete in terms of airiness and space imo and you can "relax" and enjoy the music. Whereas es100 is I'm gonna kickurass 1st row at a concert whatsgoodson. Of the 4 tuning options, none of them really open up things, but can ease up things. Some will prefer the air, some will prefer the kickurarse. This guy prefers that xtra bit of air/breathing room personally, both get the job done. Of course one drains battery, the other doesn't and is super light, you can quickly throw it in your middle jacket pocket(you'll still have the iem cable creeping out) like it's not even there while the other dangles off your smart phone so it's a no brainier there if you're on the move.


----------



## Zerohour88

an update on the Weiliang/Breeze Audio SE4 that I previously posted here:

seems while it performed admirably the few months I have it plugged on the PC (more than enough driving power for my headphones and earbuds), it faltered when being used with the Andromeda. Some audible hissing (either due to high noise floor or mismatched impedance). Either way, if you have sensitive IEMs or gear, its not for you.


----------



## Chessblitzer2017

Is xelento considered 'sensitive', it's 16 ohms


----------



## Zerohour88

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> Is xelento considered 'sensitive', it's 16 ohms



I would guess so, Andromeda is 12.8 ohms. I'm running it at 1% volume on my PC due to how sensitive it is, haha.

Hissing due to noise floor is a bother on some songs and mostly negligible on others (you can hear it just being plugged in, sadly)


----------



## tripside

kevinscottcaja said:


> Overall, a noticeable improvement over the Apple 3.5mm dongle. Stereo separation is much better, even rivaling my ES100 in balanced mode, if not, even a tad better than my ES100. Feels very holographic sound like you are in a large stage.
> Using my FAD E5000 as my primary IEMs, I was immediately blown away on how much details are revealed, treble became more pronounced and bass became leaner, most of all, soundstage became much much more wider. Driving them off my Apple 3.5mm dongle, they sound bassy and overly warm sometimes, but from the iDEA they sound amazing. Trying them off on my UMPro50 v2 and same goes as well, bass became much fuller, sub bass hits much better and I can hear them and treble are more pronounced without being fatiguing. The iDEA pairs really well on warm sounding IEMs and low impedance and low sensitivity IEMs requiring loads of driving power (mWatts).
> 
> For battery life, my iPhone X drops about 6% to 8% per hour when screen is off and music playing on HF Player. It drops around 10% to 12% per hour if I'm listening to music and browsing through safari at the same time.



Thanks for the detailed reply. I was on the lookout for something more portable than Fiio Q1 MK2 and this fits the bill.


----------



## Aibo

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> Is xelento considered 'sensitive', it's 16 ohms



Sensitivity is measured in dB/mW and Xelento has 110 dB/mW. That means they're quite sensitive and can go very loud even with modestly powerful sources.


----------



## Zerohour88

Chessblitzer2017 said:


> Is xelento considered 'sensitive', it's 16 ohms





Aibo said:


> Sensitivity is measured in dB/mW and Xelento has 110 dB/mW. That means they're quite sensitive and can go very loud even with modestly powerful sources.



Yeah, that's actually the proper way (in hi-fi glossary) to define "sensitivity". My bad, its not as simple as looking at impedance and determining that its "sensitive". I should've meant that the low impedance makes it sensitive to source or basically hard to match the impedance with just any source (since the general rule is impedance of source is 1/8th of your IEM/headphone).


----------



## weissglut

Hi,

I'm looking for a portable DAC that can drive my Fostex T50RP (50 Ohm, 92dB (1kHz, 1mW), 3000 mW max) headphones. I'm using ReplayGain, so actually I need even a bit more output power than usual.
Is anybody using the Fostex with SMSL IDEA or X4 (or the Sabajs)?

At the moment I have a DragonFly Black 1.5 here. This one has not enough power, therefore I'll send it back. DragonFly Red would be an option, but it is expensive. Also the DragonFly shows some noise coming from the PC USB port. How is filtering on the SMSL?

I want to use the DAC with my PC and with my iPad Pro (without any additional power source).


----------



## Zerohour88

weissglut said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for a portable DAC that can drive my Fostex T50RP (50 Ohm, 92dB (1kHz, 1mW), 3000 mW max) headphones. I'm using ReplayGain, so actually I need even a bit more output power than usual.
> Is anybody using the Fostex with SMSL IDEA or X4 (or the Sabajs)?
> ...



Might want to check out Topping NX4 DSD (for unbalanced), measurements of its output here (you can probably ask them or @amirm if it'll drive the Fostex):
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sd-dac-and-portable-headphone-amplifier.3507/


----------



## weissglut

Thanks for the suggestion, but a battery powered DAC is not an option. I already have one, but I never use it.


----------



## Zerohour88

weissglut said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, but a battery powered DAC is not an option. I already have one, but I never use it.



a friend uses the NX4 on his desktop PC permanently to drive his IEMs/NightOwls, so you can go that route. There's the Sabaj DA3 if you don't need a battery though:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...baj-da3-dac-compared-to-dragonfly-black.3503/


----------



## weissglut

Do you know if the DA3 works with iPhone/iPad?


----------



## Zerohour88

weissglut said:


> Do you know if the DA3 works with iPhone/iPad?



sorry, no idea, but this conversation posted might be helpful to you:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-compared-to-dragonfly-black.3503/#post-84520


----------



## weissglut

Yep, everything I've found so far: The DA3 won't run on most smartphones.

The SMSL X4 should have the lowest power consumption, the IDEA has higher power consumption than X4 but should work with most smartphones (no idea if this also applies to iPhone).


----------



## gazzington

Do these work on iPod touch 6th gen?


----------



## Mij-Van

gazzington said:


> Do these work on iPod touch 6th gen?


Yes, it works, But consumes the battery quite a lot.


----------



## weissglut

antdroid said:


> I just got the Sabaj DA2 tonight, and have been testing it side-by-side with the SMSL X4 on several different types of music and segments of different songs that have instrument separation or other things I like to use as distinguishers. The DA2 definitely sounds more precise, and better at separation than the X4. The X4 is quite commendable and at the price it's a solid offering, especially compared to the similarly priced K1. The DA2 though can drive my test headphones (Fostex T50RP Mk3 with mods) much better than the X4, and overall - sounds just slightly better. The X4 does have a warmer sound as someone mentioned much earlier in this thread.


Thanks, so I‘ll try the DA2 for my Fostex.


----------



## weissglut

Just a note: Amazon.de has a 10 % discount on all Sabaj products until 25.11.2018.


----------



## weissglut

Does anybody know if this cable works with Sabaj Da2 and iPhone?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mee...ad-iPod-Chord-Mojo-Hugo-Pha3/32856542392.html


----------



## DjBobby

weissglut said:


> Does anybody know if this cable works with Sabaj Da2 and iPhone?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mee...ad-iPod-Chord-Mojo-Hugo-Pha3/32856542392.html


Yes, it works perfectly with any dac I have and iPhone. Strange, doesn't work always with the iPad, but with the iPhone no problem.


----------



## parthabhatta (Nov 29, 2018)

I have ordered a Sabaj DA2 and will hopefully receive it early. I was leaning towards DA3 but then read that it's not very compatible with most of the Android mobiles as also consumes too much battery.
But I am still feeling the itch to buy one DA3 , may be after a couple of months for other listenings through my PC or my Raspberry Pi (don't know if it's compatible with Pi 3B and Volumio comby). I was just getting through DA3 specs and they seem to be pretty high in comparison to full sized portable Headphone DAC AMPs like Topping, Fiio, Xduo etc in similar price range but with battery power.  Only look and buildwise DA3 looks inferior. I read here that DA3 is also having excellent sound quality.
So which will be a better buy, DA3 or any parallel model with battery power from any of the companies stated above or other similar?


----------



## Zerohour88

parthabhatta said:


> I have ordered a Sabaj DA2 and will hopefully receive it early. I was leaning towards DA3 but then read that it's not very compatible with most of the Android mobiles as also consumes too much battery.
> But I am still feeling the itch to buy one DA3 , may be after a couple of months for other listenings through my PC or my Raspberry Pi (don't know if it's compatible with Pi 3B and bolunto comby). I was just getting through DA3 specs and they seem to be pretty high in comparison to full sized portable Headphone DAC AMPs like Topping, Fiio, Xduo etc in similar price range but with battery power.  Only look and buildwise DA3 looks inferior. I read here that DA3 is also having excellent sound quality.
> So which will be a better buy, DA3 or any parallel model with battery power from any of the companies stated above or other similar?



The Topping NX4 DSD is really good, but also costs a bit more.

Either that or the Fiio Q1MkII (friend was looking for a DAC to use on his PC since he already had the X7ii, decided to go with the NX4 due to it having more power on the unbalanced output).

The SMSL IQ is similar to the DA3 but its battery powered. That could be another solid choice (but sadly I've not tested it, no shops here have them in stock).


----------



## peter123

parthabhatta said:


> I have ordered a Sabaj DA2 and will hopefully receive it early. I was leaning towards DA3 but then read that it's not very compatible with most of the Android mobiles as also consumes too much battery.
> But I am still feeling the itch to buy one DA3 , may be after a couple of months for other listenings through my PC or my Raspberry Pi (don't know if it's compatible with Pi 3B and bolunto comby). I was just getting through DA3 specs and they seem to be pretty high in comparison to full sized portable Headphone DAC AMPs like Topping, Fiio, Xduo etc in similar price range but with battery power.  Only look and buildwise DA3 looks inferior. I read here that DA3 is also having excellent sound quality.
> So which will be a better buy, DA3 or any parallel model with battery power from any of the companies stated above or other similar?



If you're planning on using it with a phone I'd most definitely get one with battery. The IQ is a seriously good offering, and not only for the price.


----------



## gazzington

peter123 said:


> If you're planning on using it with a phone I'd most definitely get one with battery. The IQ is a seriously good offering, and not only for the price.


I am interested in getting one to pair with my iPod touch 6th gen but battery consumption is a worry.  Is there a way to give it portable power supply?


----------



## weissglut

I can answer if the DA2 works with iPhone and iPad as soon as my Lightning-to-Micro-USB cable arrives (from China). The iPod probably won't differ from other iOS devices.


----------



## peter123

gazzington said:


> I am interested in getting one to pair with my iPod touch 6th gen but battery consumption is a worry.  Is there a way to give it portable power supply?



The IQ has its own battery and drain from the transport is minimal


----------



## DjBobby

gazzington said:


> I am interested in getting one to pair with my iPod touch 6th gen but battery consumption is a worry.  Is there a way to give it portable power supply?


Unfortunately not possible. I have tried everything, without success. 
On another side you can look at it like this. I own several portable battery powered dacs/amps, including the Chord Mojo. Besides being a much bulkier combination it needs double charging, with 2 different cables. Lightning for the Apple and micro-usb for the battery powered dac/amp. At the end of the day it is the same, if you are double charging both the iPod and the dac/amp, or you have faster battery drain with the iPod/iDea combo, but charging once.


----------



## gazzington

peter123 said:


> The IQ has its own battery and drain from the transport is minimal


What is the iq, can you send a link?


----------



## DjBobby

gazzington said:


> What is the iq, can you send a link?


https://bit.ly/2BHszwo


----------



## weissglut

I also have another battery powered DAC and I never use it because when I need it, the battery is low. I think a battery powered DAC only is an option if you use it every day and therefore also charge it every day.


----------



## peter123

weissglut said:


> I also have another battery powered DAC and I never use it because when I need it, the battery is low. I think a battery powered DAC only is an option if you use it every day and therefore also charge it every day.



Personally I find units without battery to be useless for portable usage because of the battery drain so each to their own I'd guess.


----------



## blse59 (Dec 4, 2018)

I formatted my drive a while ago and have Windows 10 installed with the latest updates. Something seems to have changed.

In device properties for the SMSL iDea, say I have 'default format' set to '16 bit, 44100 Hz (CD Quality)'. I used to be able to play a 96000 Hz file in my player and click on the tray icon on the SMSL iDea driver and have it show that output switched from 44100 Hz to 96000 Hz. In other words it used to switch sampling rate automatically. It doesn't do that anymore. Now I notice it outputs constantly to whatever the 'default format' is set to instead of automatically switching to the proper rate of the music file. Anyone know how to fix this? I'd rather have it switch automatically to the proper rate from the default of 16 bit, 44100 Hz than keep it set at 24 bit, 192000 Hz.

EDIT: Changing my musicplayer preferences to Wasapi (exclusive) fixed it.


----------



## weissglut

weissglut said:


> Does anybody know if this cable works with Sabaj Da2 and iPhone?
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mee...ad-iPod-Chord-Mojo-Hugo-Pha3/32856542392.html


I‘ve received the Meenova Lightning adapter and can confirm that the Da2 works with my iPad.


----------



## airofu

Just wanted to check my setup is ok, have the SMSL at max volume (line output?) to my external headphone amp which I use to control the volume, and the SMSL Idea connected to my PC Windows 10 with volume also at 100 max (should this be lower never 100?)

Also have set the SMSL Idea in windows to 32bit/384khz upscale which it seems to stay at for everything with the purple light, should this match the source material or good to just keep it this high?


----------



## JayNetTech5

I just ordered a Sabaj Da2, going to see how well it sounds with these cheapy yet decent JLab Intro/Neon headphones. Heard the Idea/Da2 has a bigger soundstage and is more detailed when compared to my now retired X4, which still works but has developed this ear killing full volume buzz or hiss when the computer powers up or just at random times when media is being played but goes away when I pause whatever is playing for a short period of time. Recently, it happened the second a leaf blower was turned on outside but could have been a coincidence. I'm not too intrigued by the bright sound signature I'm hearing about with the Da2/Idea but if they can make a budget warm-sounding pair of headphones more lively and 3D until I fix the cable on my AD700x, or wait until I get a new pair of "audiophile" headphones in the near future, then I'm down. I'm using this for my desktop, which I know, is so scuffed being that there's desktop-oriented dac/amps out there but none of them I really care for or have gotten a bad impression of based on what I'm looking for, one of them being the E10k which I heard from multiple people sounds narrow, that and the price of them compared to these simple dongles. I love the idea (no pun intended) of just plug and play to power a poor man's excuse of "audiophile" headphones (not really) to make my music less dull and more detailed.


----------



## JayNetTech5

Wow, I'm actually quite disappointed, the Idea/Da2 is so cold and bright compared to my XtremPro X1, which is warmer and more detailed, and it's also much cheaper. This sounds so much like the DragonFly Black, almost just bland, and the only positive thing is the cleaner audio and vocal projection but it doesn't sound as detailed, just more ear piercing and focused on making the vocals more present, if that makes sense.


----------



## Mij-Van

JayNetTech5 said:


> Wow, I'm actually quite disappointed, the Idea/Da2 is so cold and bright compared to my XtremPro X1, which is warmer and more detailed, and it's also much cheaper. This sounds so much like the DragonFly Black, almost just bland, and the only positive thing is the cleaner audio and vocal projection but it doesn't sound as detailed, just more ear piercing and focused on making the vocals more present, if that makes sense.


That's my impression with most of the ESS Sabre dacs. It works better with darker and warmer headphones.


----------



## JayNetTech5 (Jan 15, 2019)

Mij-Van said:


> That's my impression with most of the ESS Sabre dacs. It works better with darker and warmer headphones.


 The X1 has a ES9023 in it, it's so far the most enjoyable unit with a Sabre chip I've tried out, and yes it doesn't sound the best with my bright AD700X, not bad but it sounds like something is missing in the mid range, it wasn't as bad with my cheapy bassier JLab Intro. I ordered a Da3 and I heard that sounded like it has more body than the Da2/Idea. We'll see.


----------



## Matias

More measurements for the SMSL iDEA with high end Audio Precision APx555 equipment:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...orloo-zuperdac-s-and-smsl-idea-dac-amps.6293/


----------



## weissglut

weissglut said:


> I‘ve received the Meenova Lightning adapter and can confirm that the Da2 works with my iPad.


The outer isolation of the Meenova Lightning adapter is already broken, so it will fail soon. I would not recommend it. 
Alternatives?


----------



## warbles

hello there ..hope this is the best thread for my problem! I bought a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable so I could use the "balanced" output of my Sabaj DA3 - supposedly optimised for the best sound -  connecting it to my Topping NX1s, and the result was dreadful. Nothing but horrid disintegration of sound! (Yes, I pressed the buttons to switch outputs, and the readout indicated 2.5mm BAL). But dreadful resiult. And now, what's worse - reverting to the standard operation with DAC alone and UNBAL 3.5mm ouput, the device no longer woorks at all! NO audio will come through it, and it turns itself off in two seconds! Will NOT stay on... anybody experience anything like this? Somewhat reluctant to message the Sabaj people on Ali, as you only get second-hand messages from "R&D" filtered through whoever answers the message-box....


----------



## peter123

warbles said:


> hello there ..hope this is the best thread for my problem! I bought a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable so I could use the "balanced" output of my Sabaj DA3 - supposedly optimised for the best sound -  connecting it to my Topping NX1s, and the result was dreadful. Nothing but horrid disintegration of sound! (Yes, I pressed the buttons to switch outputs, and the readout indicated 2.5mm BAL). But dreadful resiult. And now, what's worse - reverting to the standard operation with DAC alone and UNBAL 3.5mm ouput, the device no longer woorks at all! NO audio will come through it, and it turns itself off in two seconds! Will NOT stay on... anybody experience anything like this? Somewhat reluctant to message the Sabaj people on Ali, as you only get second-hand messages from "R&D" filtered through whoever answers the message-box....



Are you trying to connect a balanced output to a single ended input?


----------



## warbles

peter123 said:


> Are you trying to connect a balanced output to a single ended input?


Haha i have to tell you I don't know what that means ! I simply followed the directions given to me my other head-fiers on threads elsewhere, got the appropriate cable and plugged in !  And now my device no longer works! 


Please can you explain the meaning of your question for a newbie ?


----------



## maxxevv

peter123 said:


> Are you trying to connect a balanced output to a single ended input?



Sounds like it to me. 




warbles said:


> hello there ..hope this is the best thread for my problem! I bought a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable so I could use the "balanced" output of my Sabaj DA3 - supposedly optimised for the best sound -  connecting it to my Topping NX1s, and the result was dreadful. Nothing but horrid disintegration of sound! (Yes, I pressed the buttons to switch outputs, and the readout indicated 2.5mm BAL). But dreadful resiult. And now, what's worse - reverting to the standard operation with DAC alone and UNBAL 3.5mm ouput, the device no longer woorks at all! NO audio will come through it, and it turns itself off in two seconds! Will NOT stay on... anybody experience anything like this? Somewhat reluctant to message the Sabaj people on Ali, as you only get second-hand messages from "R&D" filtered through whoever answers the message-box....



Don't quite understand what you're trying to do there. 

Your Da3's 2.5mm output has R+, R- and L+, L-.  So they are designed for your headphones / earphones left and right channels.

Your NX1 has a 3.5mm line in.  Which has only 3 input signal lines.  R+, L+ while the R- and L-  share a line. 
By plugging your 2.5mm TRRS into a 3.5mm line in, you are effectively *shorting* the  R- and L- together.   

I'm not the least surprised that it got burned / killed in the process. 



warbles said:


> Haha i have to tell you I don't know what that means ! I simply followed the directions given to me my other head-fiers on threads elsewhere, got the appropriate cable and plugged in !  And now my device no longer works!



You haven't understood correctly what others were saying before you made your leap of faith it seems.


----------



## warbles

maxxevv said:


> Sounds like it to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohhhh dear. Everything went fine.when I connected to amp from the UNbalanced output - I had no idea of why I shouldn't do the same from the balanced! 

Do you think that an electronic engineer (my bro-in-law is one) would be able to repair this DAC?


----------



## PlantsmanTX

warbles said:


> Ohhhh dear. Everything went fine.when I connected to amp from the UNbalanced output - I had no idea of why I shouldn't do the same from the balanced!
> 
> Do you think that an electronic engineer (my bro-in-law is one) would be able to repair this DAC?


That's bad luck, man. I hope he or someone else is able to fix it.


----------



## warbles

PlantsmanTX said:


> That's bad luck, man. I hope he or someone else is able to fix it.


Maybe it's why Sabaj didn't send me a 2.5mm plug with the unit ' so I wouldn't be tempted? But with that little beckoning hole, how could I not be curious? Would you not agree that some pretty specialized knowledge (which i certainly now have haha) is kind of entailed in the package?


----------



## peter123

warbles said:


> Ohhhh dear. Everything went fine.when I connected to amp from the UNbalanced output - I had no idea of why I shouldn't do the same from the balanced!
> 
> Do you think that an electronic engineer (my bro-in-law is one) would be able to repair this DAC?



@maxevv explained it perfectly  

Connecting a balanced output to a single ended (aka unbalanced by many manufacturers these days) input (or headphones) will not work and potentially short one or both of the devices. Unfortunately it sounds as if that's what happened in your case


----------



## rendyG

peter123 said:


> @maxevv explained it perfectly
> 
> Connecting a balanced output to a single ended (aka unbalanced by many manufacturers these days) input (or headphones) will not work and potentially short one or both of the devices. Unfortunately it sounds as if that's what happened in your case



Are you sure? I recently ordered 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female adapter just to connect my harder to drive headphones. I don't see why this should be a problem, as I often see people using XLR -> 3.5mm SE. I mean it makes sense to me, if you have amp which has only XLR output to be able to connect even headphones without balanced cable using this kind of adapter.


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## maxxevv (Mar 5, 2019)

rendyG said:


> Are you sure? I recently ordered 2.5mm male to 3.5mm female adapter just to connect my harder to drive headphones. I don't see why this should be a problem, as I often see people using XLR -> 3.5mm SE. I mean it makes sense to me, if you have amp which has only XLR output to be able to connect even headphones without balanced cable using this kind of adapter.



You need to go read up a little bit on electric circuits.

If you had a 2.5mm TRRS terminated headphone cable and you want to use a 2.5mm TRRS FEMALE to 3.5mm MALE adaptor to plug it into a normal 3.5mm jack, it will then be correct. I do that myself. 

But not what you are trying to do, which is wrong.

You mean 4 pin XLR terminated cable into a 3.5mm jack I presume?

Then its the same as what I just described with what I do.

In short, a shared earth 3-pin supply can be wired into a 4-pin output such as cables and speakers. But NOT the other way round with 4-pin balanced supplies.


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## warbles

PlantsmanTX said:


> That's bad luck, man. I hope he or someone else is able to fix it.


Oh boy. This is what my German brother-in-law wrote back to me when I explained what had happened to my DA3 (with excerpts from respondents here) and added a photo I found of what's "under the bonnet' of the unit:


"Optically one will hardly ever see the fault on an electronics board. This looks like a high tech multilayered board. There is very little chance to fault find and then repair it without having a circuit diagram and board layout. But even then then it would be difficult as in most cases the ICs used have a manufacturers stamp on it which only  tells them what it is but keeps an outside engineer in the dark. Without a generic IC code one will not find data specific to that IC and without that there is no chance to find a problem. Should one somehow be able to pinpoint a faulty IC it is still dam hard to get a replacement and then, without damaging any more, to solder the replacement in its place. See the spacing of the pins. They are only 0.5mm. Without very special tools I would not even try.  The only thing else to try is its power supply. Is that OK?'


Is he 100% correct  there ? Is there really no hope of saving the most valuable part of my humble audio chain ?


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## Matias

He most likely is correct. These are very small surface mounted components on a tiny board. Very hard to diagnose and replace. Unfortunately it is one of those products that are not worth repairing: either replace on warranty, or else waste...


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## warbles

Matias said:


> He most likely is correct. These are very small surface mounted components on a tiny board. Very hard to diagnose and replace. Unfortunately it is one of those products that are not worth repairing: either replace on warranty, or else waste...


Do you have any idea of what Sabaj Store on Ali mean us to understand by their one year warranty? I mean, criteria-wise and all? There is but one line (seven words) referring to warranty at the very bottom of the guff page on DA3, which says 



1. One-year Store warranty (China Warranty Service).

2. We will issue full refund or resend new replacement upon receipt of the item in its original condition and packaging with all components and accessories included.

3. For any items,please send by EMS or your local post when send back.


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## Zerohour88

warbles said:


> Do you have any idea of what Sabaj Store on Ali mean us to understand by their one year warranty? I mean, criteria-wise and all? There is but one line (seven words) referring to warranty at the very bottom of the guff page on DA3, which says
> 
> 
> 
> ...



best bet is to just try contacting the seller and Sabaj for the warranty claim (if its still valid). The language barrier is a bit troublesome since they don't really speak english.


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## Slazyel

Anyone that has experience on both SMSL Idea and NX4 DSD can say to me if the NX4 DSD worth double the price?


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## DjBobby

Slazyel said:


> Anyone that has experience on both SMSL Idea and NX4 DSD can say to me if the NX4 DSD worth double the price?


Besides the NX4 DSD being battery powered vs iDea's sucking the power through the USB, the power specs difference is huge:
iDea - 2 x 35.8 mW at 32 Ohms
NX4 DSD - 2 x 293 mW at 32 Ohms. 
Almost 8 times more power.


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## tiamor988

Between SMSL Idea and Fiio Q1 MK2, which one have better audio quality? I don't mine about the battery or the balance output.


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## Aibo

tiamor988 said:


> Between SMSL Idea and Fiio Q1 MK2, which one have better audio quality? I don't mine about the battery or the balance output.



Idea if you like detailed but analytical sound and Q1 if you prefer something warmer, fuller and more fluid.


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## audiobomber (May 29, 2019)

My Sabaj Da2 is fried. There's a lot of static electricity during the heating season here. There were several times when I touched the DAC to change volume, and there was a static discharge. The DAC would stop working but I was able to restart it. The last time this happened, the DAC was terminal. Warranty is expired. Not happy!


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## Makahl

I don't know exactly what kind of sorcery is this but SABAJ DA2 (iDEA) when I've installed the official XMOS driver and changed the option at "Buffer Settings" from "Reliable" to "Standard" (pic) the sub-bass which was kind of shy now it got way more impact hitting deeper than usual. I'd guess it's just the filter settings with odd names.

Also, If someone with this device can test and report if you get the same result as mine would be nice - so I can be sure it's not placebo. 

(If you're on W10 probably you need to close all applications before changing it).


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## warbles

Makahl said:


> I don't know exactly what kind of sorcery is this but SABAJ DA2 (iDEA) when I've installed the official XMOS driver and changed the option at "Buffer Settings" from "Reliable" to "Standard" (pic) the sub-bass which was kind of shy now it got way more impact hitting deeper than usual. I'd guess it's just the filter settings with odd names.
> 
> Also, If someone with this device can test and report if you get the same result as mine would be nice - so I can be sure it's not placebo.
> 
> (If you're on W10 probably you need to close all applications before changing it).


hello...   when i hit 'buffer settings' on my driver panel i only ever get this (see screenshot) showing! How come yours is different, I wonder?


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## PlantsmanTX

Makahl said:


> I don't know exactly what kind of sorcery is this but SABAJ DA2 (iDEA) when I've installed the official XMOS driver and changed the option at "Buffer Settings" from "Reliable" to "Standard" (pic) the sub-bass which was kind of shy now it got way more impact hitting deeper than usual. I'd guess it's just the filter settings with odd names.
> 
> Also, If someone with this device can test and report if you get the same result as mine would be nice - so I can be sure it's not placebo.
> 
> (If you're on W10 probably you need to close all applications before changing it).



I tried it and couldn't hear any difference. That doesn't necessarily mean you didn't, though.


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## korwynkim

My iDea stays hot even when my computer is off. Does anyone else experience this?


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## Chessblitzer2017

Dafuq never had that issue


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## korwynkim

The blue LED stays on too. I can plug it into a completely off computer and it will heat up in a few minutes.


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## Hal Rockwell

korwynkim said:


> My iDea stays hot even when my computer is off. Does anyone else experience this?



It might be, if your PC has USB ports that stay active even when the computer is off, to be used as charging ports for various devices. You should check your MB manual, to see if the port that iDea is connected to, is such a port, and, either switching to another port, or disabling the charging function in the BIOS.


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## Little Wings (Aug 7, 2019)

DJRSP said:


> Ahhhh now that makes sense /\ ,
> 
> Well in that case, everything is working and it will just be an adjustment period from my pre-external DAC days. I was approaching the external all wrong .
> From now on i'll keep this iPhone at max and step up and down using the iDEA volume controls.
> ...



Here's my Chi-Fi portable solution with the IDEA. Velcro'ed to the back of my iPhone 8 Plus with a pair of Tin T2's.
I've tried 3 non Apple lightning to USB adapters and the only one that works is this one with an SD card reader and a lightning input. Still, it fails at extreme volume levels. Feels like a power draw problem.
Everything is fine and dandy but there's a bug with the iPhone's volume vs the DAC's own volume. They're independent and don't acknowledge each other.
Every so often after pausing or locking the phone, even though the phone's volume is pushed all que way up, I get no sound, only a smidge when the DAC's volume is pushed all the way up. I tried multiple workarounds until I found a solution. When no sound is heard with the iPhone's volume all the way up, push the volume all the way to 0, then one notch up using the volume button on the side of the device. Unplug the lightning cable and do the same, this time using the onboard speakers. Plug the lightning cable again, wait a few seconds for the phone to recognise the DAC, press play then push the volume all the way up. Now you should have a passthrough and your volume will be controlled by the IDEA.

Sound wise, it's very good.


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## al2813

I was close to pull the trigger on a dragonfly red (was even considering the cobalt) when I found this thread. How does the idea compared with the dragonfly? Another question is the iPhone match. I saw previous posts reporting success with an MFI certified lightning to micro usb cable. The last post here describes a much more complicated setup. I need a portable setup and cannot travel with 3 dongles connected to each other....


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## PlantsmanTX

al2813 said:


> I was close to pull the trigger on a dragonfly red (was even considering the cobalt) when I found this thread. How does the idea compared with the dragonfly? Another question is the iPhone match. I saw previous posts reporting success with an MFI certified lightning to micro usb cable. The last post here describes a much more complicated setup. I need a portable setup and cannot travel with 3 dongles connected to each other....


At this point, you might do better by looking at the two Ibasso dongles.


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## al2813

PlantsmanTX said:


> At this point, you might do better by looking at the two Ibasso dongles.



I thought this one did not support the iPhone?


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## PlantsmanTX

al2813 said:


> I thought this one did not support the iPhone?


I don't know. I was speaking in terms of general value.


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## hanaxxaru

DjBobby said:


> Only the earliest models of iPods had Wolfson dacs. Apple later switched to Cirrus Logic dac which is featured in all their later models of iPods, iPhones and iPads. Wolfson used linear filter, while Cirrus dacs in Apple products used exclusively minimum phase filters.
> I have both X4 and iDea. X4 sounds warmer, more laid back with woolly bass and less treble energy. It is more pleasant for long long listening sessions, but has less precise soundstage and imaging. iDea is typical Sabre dac, sounds faster, more energetic with lots of treble energy, but is also more fatiguing and can be sibilant with some headphones. It depends of your musical tastes and of your choice of headphones. Brighter HPs like AKG and Beyers go better with Wolfson and therefore with X4, darker HPs like Senns and Audezes go better with Sabre and iDea.
> AKM is somewhat puzzling. Older AKMs were more linear and neutral, newer AKMs sound more like Wolfson, with laid back treble.


Sorry for bump old post.. does x4 have same power compared to idea?


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## DjBobby

i


hanaxxaru said:


> Sorry for bump old post.. does x4 have same power compared to idea?


iDea - 35.8 mW at 32 Ohm
X4 - 80 mW at 32 Ohm


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## korwynkim

Is anyone using the newer XMOS driver? The "XMOS Driver V4.6" here: http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp
It doesn't say it is meant for the iDea but it seems to work fine. Some of the options in the driver control panel are different too.


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## PlantsmanTX

korwynkim said:


> Is anyone using the newer XMOS driver? The "XMOS Driver V4.6" here: http://www.smsl-audio.com/download.asp
> It doesn't say it is meant for the iDea but it seems to work fine. Some of the options in the driver control panel are different too.


Thanks for the the info.


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## robar

Hi there, can somebody compare SMSL X4 and Fiio BTR1K or BTR3 for me? Thanks  I have an X4 myself, and I quite like it, would be pretty nice if the Fiio would sound similar with added wireless functionality.


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## Trzystatrzy (Apr 26, 2021)

Has anyone used Smsl IQ with the phone? Does SMSL take energy from the phone or from the built-in battery?


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