# Need Sub to Pair with Magnepan MMG's



## thrasher521

So I had done a search to find a good sub that would pair up well with my MMG's but couldn't come up with a solid answer since most people say it is hard to pair a sub with planar speakers. I have around $1000 to spend. Please give me any suggestions or advice to help me pick one out.

 My current setup:
 Music Hall 5.1 TT -> Outlaw 2150 Receiver -> MMG's


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## mrarroyo

I would like to read a response to this question. The MMG's have a listed frequency response of 50Hz-24kHz with a sensitivity of 86dB /500Hz/2.83V and according to the manufacturer they need a lot of current to be driven properly. You should read their FAQ where they discuss amps and subs. See: Frequently Asked Questions - Magnepan, Inc.


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## DannyBuoy

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *thrasher521* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I had done a search to find a good sub that would pair up well with my MMG's but couldn't come up with a solid answer since most people say it is hard to pair a sub with planar speakers. I have around $1000 to spend. Please give me any suggestions or advice to help me pick one out.

 My current setup:
 Music Hall 5.1 TT -> Outlaw 2150 Receiver -> MMG's_

 

 A friend of mine had maggies with Conrad Johnson pre and amp setup and he wanted to get a sub also. I had gone to a local mid level audio store and auditioned several REL subs REL Acoustics : Great Britain's most acclaimed Sub Bass Systems from the R and B Series. He purchased decided on a model that was $1300 at the time.
 Fast forward several years and I was at a local sub manufacturer here in So Cal called HSU VTF-3 MK3 Subwoofer
 I auditioned four models and the VTF-3-MK3 impressed me a great deal. It had a lot of the characteristics of the REL and it cost half the price of the REL. Take a look around and see what people are saying about them. The lower end models were too typical for me. I like what the REL delivers, all the power, impact and emotion of the sub-bass without it sounding boomy, and fat. But it takes $1,000 plus to get that in the REL line, and you can get that for $600 - $700 in the HSU line.


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## denonfan

If you want a fast sub, give the Martin logan subs a try. The Martin logan Grotto, Depth, Descent, are some of the fastest, most musical subs out there.


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## sesshin

Be sure to look into Rythmik subs. I'm partial to the GR paper cone drivers they carry which are pretty dynamic in the musical range.


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## thrasher521

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will look into those. I also was looking for a more powerful amp because my outlaw just doesn't seem to get loud enough. Should I stick with an integrated amplifier?


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## Drag0n

OutLaw also makes subs, SVS is a good buy, the Paradigm DSP3200 is one im looking to pair with some Studio 20v5's. 

 As far as amps...i think the OutLaw reciever has pre-outs, so you can prolly use it as your preamp/tuner and run an amp right out of it.

 Also i see Bryston 3bst, and Classe' , and Parasound, Rotel, Cambridge, NAD, and other amps on Ebay all the time under $600. Even an old Carver would do nicely. Just google some reviews on how that amp would do with the MMGs impedence before you buy it. If the OutLaw reciever doesnt choke, i guess the other amps would be fine then.
 Youre the first person ive seen with one of those recievers. Ive suggested that to many people and nobody has purchased one that i know of. Nice reciever.

 Also....dont expect the MMG to crank. Its a good speaker, but not meant to make your house a rock concert. If that Outlaw at 160w per ch at 4 ohms on those MMGs isnt loud enough, then you should be looking at some different speakers for times when you want to crank it.


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## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...SVS is a good buy...
 Also....dont expect the MMG to crank. Its a good speaker, but not meant to make your house a rock concert ..._

 

x2!!! on SVS. The pairing with MMGs is magical. Ask MD1032 who came to my house to hear it ... he has much better hearing than I do, does organ tuning for a living, plays in a band, etc.

 I really mean magical, if you follow the SVS tuning procedures carefully.

 The shipping box for the SVS says "Best $1000 you'll ever spend on audio" and they got that right. (Actually that inscription is an invitiation for having your house broken in to, or to tip your co-workers off that you have more money than brains [in their opinion], depending on where you have the gigantic box shipped to ... I actually wrote SVS and told them to stop putting that on the outside!).

 Smooth as silk cross-over, no phase problems ... just bass!

 Crank it up? No problem here ... my amp is SS, 2x200 wpc into 8 ohms, 2x375 wpc into 4 ohms is the spec ... MMGs are what, 5 ohms? And my room is tiny, but I can do rock concert for sure. Listen to Janis sing (or whatever verb we need to use for her, one-of-a-kind she was, miss her) Ball and Chain on the SACD of Cheap Thrills ... at Fillmore West volume ... it's the sixties all over again ... if I could only get my wife to wear a tie-dye halter top ...


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## Drag0n

Sounds good. I wonder how the Paradigm DSP3200 would sound compared to an SVS?
 Love to compare something in the price range. I never heard an SVS, and there isnt a place you can audition them because they sell online only.


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## wavoman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Drag0n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds good. I wonder how the Paradigm DSP3200 would sound compared to an SVS?
 Love to compare something in the price range. I never heard an SVS, and there isnt a place you can audition them because they sell online only._

 

My house. YGPM (or will in a moment).


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## jackfish

The best subwoofers to match with Magneplanar loudspeakers are sealed, with relatively light driver cones, low Q, and employ servo technology.

 The Rythmik Audio F12G with the GR Research Driver and Direct Servo must get consideration.

 You can use your Outlaw RR2150 as a preamp front end for your system and add a power amp. You will need to at least double your current output to make a significant difference. That means at least 320 wpc into 4 Ohms. Something like an Adcom GFA-5500 or previous like iterations, a Rotel RB-1582 or previous like iterations, or perhaps a pair of Emotiva UPA-1 monoblocks or an Emotiva XPA-2.


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## thrasher521

i've been checking out the SVS subs, now im just not sure if i should go with one of their cylindrical models or box. Which do you think would fare better with my setup?


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## jackfish

For SVS subwoofers I'd look at the new SB12-NSD, SB13-Plus and SB16-Ultra in box designs and wouldn't consider the cylinder designs unless you were going to intentionally lower the Q factor by plugging all the ports.


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## grokit

I looked pretty hard at the SVS offerings, as well as a few Velodynes when I was upgrading my multi-purpose system. I decided that since my intended use was for both music and home theater, that I needed the ability to create some "boom" with massive air movement without sacrificing speed, and multi-timbral musicality. My funds are not unlimited, so I was also looking for a good price-performance ratio. If you can handle their massive size and weight, there is really nothing else out there that has the sound and build quality of AV123's MFW-15. It's a 110-lb. piece of extremely well-finished solid wood furniture, with a 15" cone that is definitely not one-dimensional; it is capable of giving you explosive depth to the most demanding soundtrack, yet can disappear and blend perfectly with the main speakers for more musical demands. The only problem is moving this sucker around; think of it as the heaviest end table ever. I actually found this (on sale) to be my best value, even after paying around $400 for freight to Alaska on this monster. There was a digital 15" Velodyne with remote that I liked locally, and there were some 12" B&Ws as well, but for me it came down to the SVS vs. the AV123, with the Velodyne as the dark horse. I am very happy with my decision; once it's in place and tuned for your system, the MFW-15 is a dream. You may need some help getting it in place, though; this thing is a real beast. I really don't think anything short of the JL Audio Gotham that can out-perform it, and there's nothing that comes near it for anywhere close to it's price that I can find. For your budget, you could even consider getting two of these bad boys with their current sale (your neighbors would hate you). One thing I couldn't get away from was less wattage, a smaller driver, and more particle board and plastic for more $ in everything else I compared the MFW-15 with. More impressions here.


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## islewind

The Paradigm DSP is a great advancement in technology, and a decent value. Servo controlled drivers are about to become a thing of the past.


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## noinimod

SVS subs are more well-suited for HT duties than music, although i hear the pb13 does a very good job at music.

 Go with Hsu/SVS/Rythmik/Elemental Designs/Epik/Velodyne and it's quite hard to go wrong. JL is over-priced for what it is, nuff said


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## StephenPM

If your going with Maggies, you've got to go old-school amplification. Picked up a mint Adcom GFA-555 cheap and can put 325 watts/channel into the MMGs.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





thrasher521 said:


> So I had done a search to find a good sub that would pair up well with my MMG's but couldn't come up with a solid answer since most people say it is hard to pair a sub with planar speakers. I have around $1000 to spend. Please give me any suggestions or advice to help me pick one out.
> 
> My current setup:
> Music Hall 5.1 TT -> Outlaw 2150 Receiver -> MMG's


 


  I have your receiver and speakers and I use the Outlaw 10 inch sub which is designed bby HSU. Both those lines are outstanding subs and will mate perfectly with the 2150 and MMG. The MMG I use the internal crossover set at 50 with the subs amp as I think the MMG panels sound much better without the reciver bass managment.


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## Frank I

Quote: 





stephenpm said:


> If your going with Maggies, you've got to go old-school amplification. Picked up a mint Adcom GFA-555 cheap and can put 325 watts/channel into the MMGs.


 


  The 2150 he has and I have do well with the MMG  and put out 190W into the 4 ohm load and sound good and it is  more current than the 555.  They do not need that much power unless you have a 600 sq feet room. In my 13.5 X20.5 I cant play past 10 PM


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## Gradoman

As a owner of few SVS's, recommend SVS SB12+ or perhaps SB13-Plus


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## FattyMcFatFatFatty

I'm gonna gravedig this thread in hopes someone will answer my question.
  
 I've got a pair of MMG's paired with a NAD 355BEE integrated amplifier. I'm really trying to buy a nice subwoofer that will make my music sound more realistic, so that I dont have to muddy my sounds anymore by turning up the bass on my Amp. However, I don't really want to spend what I paid on the speakers on the subwoofer. I'm looking at a max budget of 300$ (And by max, I mean i'd be more comfortable around 200$), and all of the sealed subwoofers i've looked at so far look to be upwards of 600 bucks.
  
 Thanks in advance!


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## FattyMcFatFatFatty

Anyone?


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## cel4145

Just keep in mind that a sub is a big driver with a big enclosure AND an amplifier, and then it has to be shipped (and it's big, so it costs). Maggies are so accurate that you could very well be very disappointed with anything for $300 or less. Think about it. You have $1200 worth of speaker/amp and you are thinking $200-$300 in sub/amp is going to do much for you in terms of SQ? 

I think you should wait at least until you could afford a sealed sub from SVS Audio.


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## jazzfan

fattymcfatfatfatty said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 I agree with cel4145's suggestion to go with an SVS sub if you can find room in your budget.  SVS subs are an excellent value.  I'd love to have an SVS SB13-Ultra myself.
  
 Currently, I'm using a Hsu Research STF-2 10" Powered Subwoofer (200 Watts RMS) paired with a set of Mini Maggies in my small 10'x9' office. The STF-2 is a good match with the Mini and provides just enough bottom to be satisfying in my room.  I don't know where the MMG rolls off in your environment so I can't be certain about how seamless the STF-2 will be for you, but I have mine crossed over at 80Hz it blends well with the Mini.
  
 Here's a link to my Mini Maggie review where I mention the HSU sub - _http://www.head-fi.org/products/magnepan-mini-maggie-desktop-speaker-system/reviews/8105_.  If you have a larger space you'd likely need something bigger.  If you don't mind waiting for a used STF-2 to pop up, you can probably find one that will fit your budget.  In the mean time, you can always save for an SVS.


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