# The Xonar Essence STX Q/A, tweaking, impressions thread



## Telix

*Last updated March 18, 2010

 Latest drivers: 5.12.8.1773 released 2009/11/06

 New drivers coming!*
 On 2010/02/11:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I have confirmed with the powers that be at ASUS that they will be releasing a new and improved driver set the the public for the STX/ST.

 Yes, they will provide "bit perfect" output.

 These new drivers are low latency and based on what I have seen they provide some very impressive numbers in comparison to previous releases.

 While still in early Beta stage they provide what some of you have been after, using ASIO to acheive bit perfect output. There are a few other details the you might find interesting about the driver but I don't want to release all the surprises...

 Stay tuned for more information and updates._

 

Xonar STX

 The Asus Xonar Essence STX is a PCI-E audio card designed for high-end computer-based audio playback. It has many interesting features such as:

 * Burr Brown 1792A DAC chips offering -124db Real world performance.
 * Independent power sources for line and headphone outputs keeping the signal clean and clear and eliminating any interference between output sections.
 * Swappable opamps – You can fine tune your sound quality on the Essence using higher quality opamps or tune to your liking using your favorite units. The card is outfitted with LM4562 and JRC 2114D’s stock build.
 * EMI shielding - the sensitive analog electronics are sealed and protected from harmful EMI/RFI behind a carefully designed shield.
 * New hyper grounding circuitry design allows sensitive analog paths to be isolated on the circuit board keeping them free from noise and interference.
 * Nichicon “Fine Gold” Professional audio capacitors offer rich bass and crystal clear high frequencies.
 * Built in high quality, high impedance TI TPA6120A2 with software settable gain ranges allowing for high quality headphones to be used without external amplification units.

 Essentially Asus has created an audio card that cost less than $200 that can provide an EXTREMELY high quality signal directly to headphones, an external headphone amp, or powered speakers. Swappable opamps mean users can tailor the sound to match their listening desires and equipment.

*Reviews:* (mostly hardware sites, so many audiophiles may not care what they have to say)
Exclusive: ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sneak Peak [sic] - Hardware Canucks
Overclock3D.Net :: Review :: Asus Xonar Essence STX - PCI-E Audiophile Soundcard :: Introduction and Specification
ASUS Xonar Essence STX soundcard review
Elite Bastards
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review - Reviews by ExtremeTech
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Introduction :: TweakTown
ASUS Xonar Essence STX Review
*Great technically in-depth review:* Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review
*New Jan 2010!* Stereophile

*FAQ:*
*Q: Is this card better than XXX other card?*
 A: While that's pretty impossible to answer, it's damn good for the price. It can power pretty much any headphone you can plug into it and sounds phenomenal. You can swap opamps to match your listening desires or the strengths or weaknesses of your headphones or speakers. It easily matches up to external DACs/amps costing far more (although you obviously lose the portability those have). It's likely better than most other sound cards in the price range (it's probably safe to say the E-MU 1212m is superior for less money), but when you add in the quality headphone amplifier it's certainly better than any sound card in the price range (that I know of).

*Q: What is the difference between the ST and the STX?*
 A: The ST is a PCI compatible card, the STX is a PCI-E compatible card. The ST has a "better clock" which concievable leads to "less jitter". People report that they have distinctly different sounds that can easily be discerned. The ST also has an optional daughterboard that allows for analog 7.1 output. Rather than post anything more, I'll just link out to some of the threads I have found:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/xo...k-peak-414322/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...erence-449279/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...er-stx-465801/

*Q: Can the Essence STX run in a PCI-E 16x slot?*
 A: Yes, PCI-E cards are all upwards compatible. A 1x, 4x, or 8x card can be run in a 16x slot. I run mine in a PCI-E 16x slot. It cannot run in a standard PCI slot.

*Q: What's the deal with interchangeable opamps?*
 A: The card has 3 swappable 8-pin dual opamps. The two matched I/V opamps impact the headphone out alone, while the 3rd "buffer" opamp impacts the RCA out. If you are only using the headphone out you only have to worry about the 2 I/V opamps. They can be removed and replaced using your fingers, a small flathead screwdriver, needle nose pliers, etc.

*Q: What opamps are people using in this card?*
 A: Here are a variety of quotes from users:

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Talking about opamps, I think I've ended my quest for the perfect ones. Here are my impressions. All testing done through HP out with HD650s.

*JRC2114 (default)* : I actually think the default opamp for the card is a really good choice. Had it not been for the bassy and dark signature of my cans, I would have kept these. They actually sound the best with my HD595s. Bass is very deep, with perfect extension, just a bit too much in quality for the HD650s. The highs tend to be a bit rolled off, and the soundstage is pretty wide, but not deep and high. I imagine these would sound fantastic with headphones like K701/2 or DT880, but is too heavy for my current cans.

*LT1364* : I didn't like these very much. Bass seems neutral, but lacks punch. Mid and highs are well balanced, but soundstage isn't that much better than 2114. Detail is improved. Sounds too weightless.

*OPA2134* : Disappointment. As Alienns stated, the default opamps are just better. These have more bass, but the quality is degraded in comparison. With these opamps the bass on 650s sounded like the one on my HD212. (read: boomy) Highs are also rolled off. The soundstage isn't impressive, but opens a bit after burn-in. Sounded "dense", in the sense that all the sounds are too close to you and without good positioning.

*LME49720* : All I can say is these babies ROCK. Bass lacks just a little bit of extension, but is very natural sounding and punchy. Highs are brighter than average, but that cancels out with the dark signature of my headphones well, resulting in an overall neutral tonality. Soundstage is absolutely awesome. You can easily position instruments in direction and distance. Has the depth other opamps are missing. All details are clearly present, but the sound is a bit distant due to the soundstaging. My current and final choice.

*LM6172* : These are very close in sound to the LME49720. Biggest difference is that they aren't so distant sounding. That means less soundstage and a bit better bass. I didn't find the trade off worthwhile. Still a very valid choice.

 I hope all of you find the perfect opamp match for your headphones. I have done it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Update once again on opamps. I've found that no matter which opamp is used in the buffer spot, if there are 2xLME49720 in the I/V section, the bass output is compromised. The bass can be tight or loose depending on the buffer, but it lacks punch no matter which buffer amp is used (relative to default opamps and OPA2107).
 So now I'm using the LME49720 in the buffer spot and 2xOPA2107 in the I/V section. The soundstage is about the size of stock (nothing like 2x49720 in the I/V), but the bass is the best I've heard quality-wise, and is in plentiful quantity. The highs are more prominent as well but, unfortunately, they're scratchy/grainy (not smooth) and at times, quite fatiguing. However, the main benefit of this setup is that the overall transient response is noticeably improved over all other opamp combinations and it really produces a detailed, quick, high-energy sound.

 At low volumes, this setup sounds good, but at high volumes, I prefer the LME49720 in the I/V section. I wish I could combine the bass/transient speed of the OPA2107 with the smooth treble and huge soundstage of the LME49720._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *riderforever* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, sorry for having been away from this thread for a little while, but now I'm back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 In the meanwhile two important things have simple revolutioned the playback of my audio system:
the LM49720NAs have arrived
I've applied the digital correction using DRC
First of all, let me speak about the latter: I strongly advice all of you who do listen through speakers to try it, you won't listen without it anymore for sure. It simply removes any bump or enphasis due to amp-speaker-environment combination and its effect is smashing expecially on the bass frequencies. The gain in terms of impact, articulation and extension is unbelievable.
 With the digital correction in place I was finally able to rightly evaluate the opamps.

 To me the LM49720NA as I/V are really great opamps and a noticeable step forward with respect to the JRC. I was suprised not to feel any particular loss of bass, instead it becomes tighter. In general the sound is much more defined without any harshness and very enjoyable to listen. 
 Then I put back the Burson opa-101 in the buffer place and I started again to hear marvellous things: lots and lots of details are unveiled in - practically - every track, the sound is absolutely natural and flows out of the speakers with a fluency and liquidity which is unknown to my ears. And - most important - with the digital filtering ON the bass is absolutely in pair with mids and highs, furthermore it has an impact and articulation just perfect (at high volumes I can feel it through my body), without any issue regarding extension.

 I don't know if the Burson is worth its price and there is a considerable difference with respect to be Audio-Gd ones, but - trust me - you should try a discrete opamp, they have some kind of magic._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alydon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ultimately with my rig, using a 6172 in the buffer sounds the most realistic to me.. In my setup, the 6172 has the most detailed, full-bodied, and visceral bass of any opamp I've tried (including the JRC2114, which by comparison had a smeared, boomy, and indistinct bass), whereas the 49720, though detailed, is missing the lowest bass registers and simply doesn't have the impact or imaging that the 6172 provides. This is especially noticeable with strings and percussion. There is also a little too much upper-mid/lower treble emphasis (1-2KHz) with a 49720 buffer that makes horns sound slightly “bleaty” and gives high strings and pianos a nasal quality that sounds somewhat off to me (though again I don't think that the HD650's would experience this). 

 Lastly, I personally prefer the more intimate soundstage that gives me the feel of being in amongst the musicians. The 3x49720's setup does have a larger soundstage and I can see where many might prefer it, but it made the musicians a little too far away and the music a little detached as a result to be ideal for me. 

 Overall, both opamps are excellent choices though and I'd still be quite content w/ a 49720 in the buffer if the 6172's didn't exist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I strongly suggest to anyone that wishes to try their hand at opamp rolling on the STX that you try *both* of these opamps in the buffer spot to find out which one you prefer since I don't believe one is superior to the other. I guess this goes to show how important system synergy and personal preference come into play in addition to the personal experience and compromise/balancing that Shahrose already mentioned... 

 ...

 However, since I don't seem to be able to leave well-enough alone, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been rolling opamps in my Corda Opera and I think I've found another one that I'd like to try in the STX as well: the LM7171. This is a single-channel opamp which means you’ll need to use two of them on an adapter. However, they seem quite promising given the results I’ve heard from the Opera.

 So far in the Opera it sounds very similar to the stock 6171's that it comes with, but with the contrast turned up. It has a blacker background, and slightly better dynamics, deeper and cleaner bass, a deeper soundstage, and better imaging. The mid-bass hump is reduced as well. Once my adapters arrive in the mail I’ll test them out in both the buffer and I/V spots of the STX to see how they fare._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't want to say I like or don't like. I want to try to give as accurate a description of their sound as possible so others can decide. My own subjective preferences are always in a flux and one day I can like something and the next I'll be disappointed with it.

 The LME49720 in the buffer spot sound smooth, with prominent mids and have tight hard-hitting bass. The soundstage is also wide.

 In the I/V their bass is not as defined as stock, it's also less prominent, and less extended (slightly). They also produce a slow sound so certain harmonics have a longer decay. This gives a nice ambient/airy sound that results in a nice soundstage but this effect is also the culprit for their slow sound. The treble is excellent though, not harsh at all yet extended and grain-free.

 So far, if you were to ask me what I like most out of every combination I've tried so far. It would be the 1xLME49720 / 2xJRC2114. Overall these have the least number of flaws and I keep going back to them. A couple other combinations sound almost as good but just don't suit my preferences._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been running 2x LME49720's for a few days and today swapped in 2x LM6172's (I use the headphone out). With the Denon's the LM6172's had too much uncontrolled bass. Even the LME49720's can feel a little flabby with certain bass-heavy music (I'd attribute that to the Denon's before blaming the opamp...) but the LM6172's were simply not a good match to my partially modded Denon's.

 Of course I also need to at least TRY the stock opamps, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2x LME49720NA.
 Detailed sound, transperent and leaky bass, good treble.
 Not enough bass for me... Too sterile, the sound eventually wearies.

 2X LM6172IN.
 More bass than 49720, but it sound unnaturally. Middle is smooth = weak guitar drive. Deaf treble, less beautiful... Narrow soundstage felt unnatural...

 Then I started to try the Line-Out with my 300-ohms cans...

 2x LME49720NA + LM4562 = not good
 2x LME49720NA + JRC2114D = better, sound like 2x49720, but with more dense and strong bass.
 2x LME49720NA + LM6172IN = 2x LME49720NA, but not dry and more volume bass, nice smooth treble, altogether more living and nice sound. Soundstage sounds cool - sounds are flying around... =) With external amplifier this will sound better, IMHO. =)_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just tried other combinations:
 2хJRC2114D + LM6172IN = sound is bold and low-detailed, but the bass hit well.
 2xJRC2114D + LME49720NA = powerful bass, harsh sound, different from the HP-out's sound - a little less pointed treble and greater detail..
 Now listen again *2xLME49720NA* + *LM6172IN*, still more pleasant sound, not as harsh as the previous combination, but also with good bass. I'll stay with this combination.

 By the way, LM6172, in contrast to the LM4562, have flatter graph of noise in the treble zone.

 Added: Listening music full evening... Everything sounds great. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnzz4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just tried a few op amps and settled on the 49720HA's on adapters in the IV and the one of the stock JRE's in the buffer. Sounds great....

 Also tried different combinations with OPA2227 and OPA2137P, and finally LM6172IN. Couldn't get it to sound quite right. The 49720HA's in the IV with the OPA2227 in the buffer was second best, but there was something weird with the 4kHz range.


 Not sure if anyone else experienced this, but regardless of where I put the OPA2137P's it got distortion as soon as I started to turn up the line level a bit (definitely not over doing it). Tried a different OPA2137P just in case it was a defect. Same thing... Didn't have this problem with any of the other op amps.

 Good luck... I'm happy for now!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8-bit thief* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just tried switching out the LM4562 with the LT1364 in the buffer and keeping the stock JRC's in the IV, bad combo with my AD900's, the vocals were brought out too much especially the male vocals, there was extreme sibilance in the male vocals, I had to put the stock LM4562 back after just an hour because I couldn't stand it.

 There were some things I did like about it though, like the OPA series of opamps (opa2228, opa2604 etc) the LT1364 has toned down treble compared to the LM4562 but unlike the OPA's there was no loss in detail, so if you're a detail freak that wants to tone down their treble the LT1364 is a good thing to consider. 

 Another thing I liked is the soundstage, with the LM4562 music always sounds like it's coming from behind me or from the side, with the LT1364 music was coming from the back, the sides as well as the front, the soundstage wasn't as wide however so it's kind of a trade off, overall I preferred the LT1364's SS for making me feel like I'm more surrounded by music._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I kept
 2x JRC2114D (Stock) in the I/V's and tried

 -OPA2111KP - They sounded good but I wasn't all that impressed. Although the soundstage was pretty decent

 -OPA2137P - I have these in now and all I can say is wow. They just sound more lively!

 My test track is Time - Pink Floyd

 Out of all the Op Amps I cant use the following due to my lack of soldering skills!
 -OPA2137EA
 -OPA2137U
 -OPA2107AU_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bizarro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2 x LME49720HA + 1 x LT1364 had a laid back sound, compared to:
 2 x LME49720HA + 1 x OPA2107AP which is livelier and defined. There is just a right amount of bass and treble is crisp (in a good way).

 I would love to get my hands on 2107SM._

 

*Q: Where do I order opamps?*
 A: One popular site is Digi-Key Corporation - USA Home Page National Semiconductor will send free samples to educational accounts, which require an .edu email. National Semiconductor Home - Energy-efficient PowerWise analog solutions: operational amplifiers, data converters, LED drivers, LVDS, Simple Switchers, switching regulators, LDO, temp sensor, webench, NSM, NSC, NS, NatSemi, National Semi

*Q: What's the proper way to set this thing up for headphone listening?*
 A: Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is a very basic headphone config for *stock* Asus Xonar STX/ST. I decided to post this because I was very happy with this config and I was tired of repeating it in every STX-related post. I hope its helpful. 


 Driver version: 7.12.8.1777
 OS: Windows 7 64bit

 After installing the driver you have two options, using the line out or the headphone out. The popular opinion used to be/still is that the line out is 'better' but although that's how it looks on the paper, the real life experience of many including myself differs. The built-in headphone amp of Xonar STX is especially well-suited for high impedance headphones. 

 Setting up the software for headphone listening:







*Audio Channel:* 2 Channels

*Sample Rate:* The default setting is 96khz, I don’t know the reason for that, it could be lack of auto sample rate but all my music is 44.1 and I set the sample rate at 44.1 to avoid any resampling. I have the windows sound option for Xonar also set to 24/44.1.

*Analog out:* I use the headphone out and I recommend the headphone out especially for high impedance headphones (64ohms and above). For reference read the xbitlab review and scroll down to the charts and commentary in regards to Xonar’s headphone amp chip (TPA6120A2): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/asus-xonar-essence-stx_3.html

 The highest gain setting of 300-600ohms provides the best sound quality, and it’s a perfect match for example with HD580/HD600/HD650, all these headphones have an impedance range of 300ohms to 600ohms. 

 Use the headphone gain setting at your own risk and make sure you know what you’re doing. This is the most important setting and you must get it right. 






*DSP mode* (bottom right)*:* The only option enabled there should be HF (hi fi) this is very important. HF or hi fi disables all post processing of the signal, for example environment size in Effects option (look below). Environment size creates artificial sound staging and in the process distorts the sound. If you click on any of its options L M S the HF option will be disabled, so make sure HF option is always enabled for optimum fidelity. 

*Volume Control:* Use the volume in Xonar, set the volume at your music player (foobar, winamp etc) at 100%.






 Everything else in the driver should be left at default unless needed for some specific reason. 


 This is what I use for headphone listening. The biggest difference for me was setting the proper gain setting for my headphone and enabling HF. 

 Please don’t hesitate to share what are your Xonar STX/ST settings and why. But after playing around with this card for three months, this is what I have decided and its very simple and straight forward._

 

*Q: Should I use 192hkz, 96hz, 44.1khz or what?*
 A: It's probably in your best interests to set the Xonar Control Panel to the sampling rate of the music you are playing back. However, it's up to you to tell if you can hear a difference between the settings. If you don't play any 24/96 sound files, just stick it at 44.1khz. *I am currently reviewing this thread to learn more about sketchy bitperfect playback issues, will update when I can!*

*Q: What's with kernel streaming, ASIO, and all that?*
 A: That's a larger topic discussed elsewhere, but the cards support both quite well. You should probably use them.

*Q: Can this do 3-d gaming sound and surround sound?*
 A: "For gamers, the Xonar Essence STX supports EAX 2.0, as well as the Asus DS3D GX 2.0, when using digital output. This lets both XP and Vista users play both EAX HD 5.0 and DirectSound 3D games with full surround audio. The EAX 5.0 emulation isn't perfect—we heard occasional quirks like voices picking up unintended echoes—but overall the 3D effect remains convincing and true to the original intent." The card isn't designed to be a gamers card, but for the casual gamer who would want excellent stereo or EAX 2.0 audio, it will fit the bill.

 My impressions of the card is that it is totally worth the cost, and a total steal at that. For the individual who listens to most of their music at a computer, it's a no-brainer, unless they want to build a costlier system. *Note: there is likely some competition for this card at this point, I will update when I can.*


----------



## Shahrose

Nice summary. Many of these posts got lost into oblivion in the massive sneak peek thread.

 I'd like to add that I've finally settled on 3xLME49720's with my setup. The 49720/JRC2114 setup was good but the dry sound/unforgiving treble and lower soundstage depth became fatiguing after a while.


----------



## twhtpclover

man.. this is so cool...
 Thanks for the great summary!!!


----------



## Cynips

Just got my card, so this is a definite read for me (tomorrow when I'm not dead tired ^^)

 Thanks for all the work you put into this!


----------



## genclaymore

I know this thread is for STX,but I fiqure since the HDAV has the same I/V and buffer layout minus the headphone amp. I fiqure post here too.

 So I put in order for 2x more OPA2277's one incase the other sample doesnt work. I planning on testing 3xOPA2277's since I am running 2xOPA2277 with 2xOPA627AU's atm. Which I like very much.

 Mainy seeing how it will sound so when I pair it with a Quipu Q2 amplifer stock tube(just gotta start fiquring out tube amps) so I know what to expect. If you get what i mean.

 Edit: also just put in a order for some LME49720's also gonna test Two OPA2277's in my I/V with LME49720s in buffer.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You could always go with the 3 42720's, those have been tested in the STX.


----------



## genclaymore

I order those next week. I gonna have a drawer filed of op-amps afterawhile.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thanks for doing this Telix


----------



## Shahrose

I've found that if one is using the headphone output on the STX, the LME49720's sound the best, and without the slightly undefined bass that I feel they can have at times through the line-outs.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Q: What's with kernel streaming, ASIO, and all that?
 A: That's a larger topic discussed elsewhere, but the STX supports both quite well. You should probably use them._

 

so KS works on XP SP3? even in 24 and/or 32bit?


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Both kernel streaming and Asio work well in XP sp3, but I have not tried with 32 bitdepth... The Essence only supports up to 24 bit depth so maybe it doesn't work, or maybe you lose quality. The switch to kernel streaming really improved sound quality, and I recomend it highly...


----------



## leeperry

ok thanks for the feedback!

 but the stupid drivers resample everything to the sample rate you set in the drivers?!

 you can't even play a 16/44 then 24/96 in ASIO in foobar w/o clicking "STOP" apparently ?! otherwise the 24/96 plays twice too fast ?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and if you set the sample rate to 44.1, open a youtube page, then play a 24/96 file in ASIO w/ foobar....you won't get an error msg? the drivers will resample 24/96 ASIO to 44.1 ?

 goddarn, they've managed to screw up on the drivers...shame oh shame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 usually 24bit doesn't work w/ KS, it's a XP limitation apparently..so you only tried 16bit?


----------



## Mr_Owlow

The whole idea of kernel-streaming and ASIO is to by-pass all Windows interference with SQ, so playing 24 bit shouldn't be a problem. As for changing speeds with varying bit depth and frequensy I haven't noticed any change of speed or similar problems, although I haven't played that many 24 bit flacs...


----------



## leeperry

well, yeah I agree! you bypass KMixer w/ KS/ASIO, but not their stupid drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've put a 24/96 file here if you could try : RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

 apparently they leave 96/192KHz untouched, but not 44/48 :
http://www.image-load.eu/out.php/i160484_wtf.png

 I'm b*tching at the ASUS drivers engineer by email as we speak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what is required is an "auto" samplerate selection in the drivers


----------



## mtan002

I just installed the vista 32 driver for my STX and it seemed to have screwed up the sound app in the system tray. Now when I click on it, the volume bar won't open. 

 Any body with this issue?

 M Tan


----------



## ROBSCIX

Can you still open the main control panel for the card?


----------



## SDDL-UP

Telix,

 Could you elaborate on the E-MU 1212m being a "superior" card? I'm assuming by superior you mean that the E-MU 1212m sounds better than the Xonar Essence STX, if you could elaborate on that I'd appreciate it!

 Thanks.


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SDDL-UP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Telix,

 Could you elaborate on the E-MU 1212m being a "superior"? I'm assuming by superior you mean that the E-MU 1212m sounds better than the Xonar Essence STX, if you could elaborate on that I'd appreciate it!

 Thanks._

 

It has a superior DAC and ADC, especially for the cost.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It has a superior DAC and ADC, especially for the cost._

 

What is this superior dac that it uses?

 The STX has both a higher SnR ration and a lower THD+N value. It also uses an external power supply whereas the EMU uses the dirty PCI bus for power.

 The E-MU is made for recording people, from specs there is nothing that points to it to being a better DAC then the STX.


----------



## ROBSCIX

From another thread I just posted this info...

 Lets look at the data:

*EMU 1212M*
*D/A:* Cirrus Logic CS4398

*Output*
*THD+N (1 Khz):* -105 dB (.0006%)
*SNR (A wieghted):* 120dB
*Dynamic Range:* 120dB

*Xonar STX*
*D/A: *PCM1792A

*Output*
*THD+N (1Khz):* Front-Out: -110dB (0.0003%)
*SNR (A-Weighted):*127dB
*Dynamic Range:* 127dB

 Very different cards meant for very different people, However according to the data and measurments the STX has the superior DAC chip. Feel free to check and compare for yourself. I am in no way saying one card is superior to the other as this is a apples to oranges comparison...they are not the same.


----------



## Funky-kun

Hey guys, can any of you help me with the following problem:

 I installed the Xonar Essence STX on my old Win XP PC (Asus A8N-PCI Deluxe) and when I try to intall any of the two released drivers for XP I get the following error message:

  Quote:


 Please plug in "ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio" and install driver again. 
 

Any ideas how to fix this?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Did you make sure you plugged the card in?

 Make sure the plug is inserted fully a buddy had the molex connected but he had a splitter etc in there somewhere and the card wasn't getting a good
 conenction so everything looked good but no power. You are better having a straight tap straight to the card from the PSU as all the amplifier
 ciruitry is powered through the molex not the bus.


----------



## Funky-kun

The card is fully inserted into a PCI-E x16 slot, and the molex connector is only used for the card. I think this is more of a software issue.


----------



## twhtpclover

I suggest you change a PCIE slot and try again, it usually helps.

 It's a typical MB problem that certain slot has inferior quality than others.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The card is fully inserted into a PCI-E x16 slot, and the molex connector is only used for the card. I think this is more of a software issue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This comes up when the card is not plugged in but as you stated it may be a error if the card is has power supplied. Double check the molex connector a buddy had his plugged in also but the conenctor was not actually supplying power for one reason or another.


----------



## Ra97oR

Anyone tried using K701 with them and compare to a desktop amp?


----------



## Funky-kun

OK, here is an update on the situation. All attempts to run the card from the PCI-E x16 slots failed miserably. I broke a part of the heatsink to be able to stick the card in one of the PCI-E x1 slots. So far, so good, but when I boot with the Xonar in place (powered up) Windows BSOD's the moment it enters the loading screen. Without the Xonar the machine boots up normally. Any suggestions? (Already god the latest bios... 2007 :/)


----------



## Cynips

I failed to boot up properly the first few times after I installed my card. However, I figured it was due to my machine being overclocked and in particular the system bus. After I lowered it back to default (and later back up a bit) it's been it's usual rock stable self. The card is seated in a regular PCI-Ex1 slot since I wanted to avoid it being close to and obstructing the air flow to my passively cooled Radeon HD4850.

 Core 2 Duo E8400, default 333MHzx9 multiplier, now running at 444x9


----------



## audionewbieyao

what's your MB model?


----------



## Cynips

MB: ASUS P5Q Pro

 edit: and yeah, I realize you were probably asking the problem guy, but who knows...


----------



## Funky-kun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *audionewbieyao* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what's your MB model?_

 

Here it's A8N-SLI Deluxe. I have all the multipliers and frequencies on stock.


----------



## leeperry

they set L and R at 76% in the control panel mixer, increasing it to 100% is in good order? and disable SW/CD of course, I'll try 0dB test tones tomorrow.

 and is it like the 49720 take a while to burn in? coz they sounded muffled and simply terrible when I first popped 'em in! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I put back the stock amps, it sounds way better

 also, I've read some ppl saying that the PLL jitter was very much audible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so I've put everyone under passive cooling, the card gets really hot anyway..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Funky-kun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here it's A8N-SLI Deluxe. I have all the multipliers and frequencies on stock._

 

Possibly bad card? 
 Can you test it in another system?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I failed to boot up properly the first few times after I installed my card. However, I figured it was due to my machine being overclocked and in particular the system bus. After I lowered it back to default (and later back up a bit) it's been it's usual rock stable self._

 

the card definitely doesn't like o/c PCI-E bus, it's a "100MHz or nothing" kind of deal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if it's o/c, it simply doesn't show up in the device manager, and the drivers give _Please plug in "ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio" and install driver again. _at the installation.


----------



## dex85

why on the earth would you oc the pci-e? to get 3 additional frames from GPU? mine gets hot too, but i don't give a damn as long as it runs.


----------



## Funky-kun

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Possibly bad card? 
 Can you test it in another system?_

 

Yup, I've had it in another system for a couple of months running absolutely OK in the third PCI-E x16 slot of a nForce 790i Motherboard.

 @leeperry

 I have absolutely no observations of excessive heat with this card. Even sitting on the very next slot to a 9800gx2, it keeps relatively cool.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why on the earth would you oc the pci-e? to get 3 additional frames from GPU? mine gets hot too, but i don't give a damn as long as it runs._

 

Well, the PCI-E wasn't oc'd but I figured the MB was stressed enough that the additional load of the Essence brought it over the limit somehow. In any case, lowering system bus values fixed it, so no need to worry any more.


----------



## dex85

my system bus is OCed too, i haven't had problem with that so far. however, i did have problem with 'Cool & Quiet' enabled. sound got stuck in repeating loop for a second or two whenever cpu multiplier had changed. it stopped when i updated the bios.


----------



## leeperry

so you guys keep L and R at 76% in the control panel mixer ? I was told that the 49720 take 3 days to burn in..yikes!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_why on the earth would you oc the pci-e? to get 3 additional frames from GPU? mine gets hot too, but i don't give a damn as long as it runs._

 

mobo limitation. my GA-P31-DS3L raises the PCI-E bus speed >350Mhz FSB...and I found the PC snappier at 8*415 than at 9*369. but anyway, the card is not detected if the PCI-E is not 100Mhz(which is understandable)

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lowering system bus values fixed it, so no need to worry any more._

 

did you run Intel Burn Test? if you can run this for 10 passes...nothing will ever crash your box.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did you run Intel Burn Test? if you can run this for 10 passes...nothing will ever crash your box._

 

Yeah, I've run Intel BurnTest with calibrated temp sensors and even though it's getting darn hot it's still within safe bounds. I've got a (with quiet fans) well equipped Thermaltake V9 case and the CPU cooled by a Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme and 2 Scythe Slipstream 1200 rpm (with fan control to make them virtually inaudible).

 On a side note, I'm contemplating switching out the opamps since I think my DT150's lack a bit of air coupled with the stock Essence. Still haven't played them 200 hours though, so I'm holding off on that. Things are probably good enough for me as they are, also. I'm not a hardcore audiophile and my ears might start to be the limit - and then, music comes first after all.


----------



## leeperry

I have some plain 4562, might try them over the 49720 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it's not easy to take off/in these darn op-amps, don't wanna run the risk of breaking a leg...besides SQ is stellar already


----------



## leeperry

sounds like there's some crazy burn-in going on....now I'm using the lowest impedance profile and I'm at 12 o'clock! yet my cans are 600Ω


----------



## twhtpclover

Just curious, why not use high gain for the burn-in?


----------



## leeperry

sound is really distorted in max gain, I guess these are for 2000Ω headphones or sumthing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in fact, volume is OK w/ lowest gain but it's not properly driven...mid impedance at 9 o'clock works like a charm, the PRAT is pretty intense...the _Travel The Galaxy_ CD from _Ed Rush & Optical_ is just constant head bouncing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still dubious about L/R set at 76% in the drivers, though


----------



## oqvist

Is it 110 % guaranteed that bit perfect will become available? Also curious how well the DDL Live works? don´t work all the well on my Elite PRO but then it´s not officially supported either.


----------



## leeperry

I was told that it would happen anytime soon : ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- Share your problems here.

 if you want it so bad, go +1 in that thread..can't hurt


----------



## oqvist

Depends I am not sure if there is 2 or 5 year warranty on the elite pro. If it´s 2 years it died 2 months to late. Now that is if it´s not the mainboard. Been acting up a lot lately.


----------



## leeperry

actually it will work up to 119 Mhz PCI-E, on top it's not recognized by the mobo at all.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it 110 % guaranteed that bit perfect will become available? Also curious how well the DDL Live works? don´t work all the well on my Elite PRO but then it´s not officially supported either._

 

Yes, ASUS stated this is a planned update and has been on the schedule for ahwhile now. DDL works fine on the card but is a waste of serious analog muscle. 
 You going for the STX or waiting for the ST?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_still dubious about L/R set at 76% in the drivers, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

so all you guys left it at 76%?


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so all you guys left it at 76%?_

 

Sorry, but I've been looking at all kinds of settings and I don't understand where this is you are talking about. I'm running Vista 64bit if there's any difference.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry, but I've been looking at all kinds of settings and I don't understand where this is you are talking about. I'm running Vista 64bit if there's any difference._

 

on XP SP3, w/ the latest drivers and the STX :





 that's the default.


----------



## Cynips

Oh, in the mixer. Hadn't even noticed that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so yes, it's at 76%


----------



## oqvist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, ASUS stated this is a planned update and has been on the schedule for ahwhile now. DDL works fine on the card but is a waste of serious analog muscle. 
 You going for the STX or waiting for the ST?_

 

I am trying to play cool and wait for the ST. Or if I decide I just want some good cheap digital transport a bit hard to decide.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, it's at 76%_

 

...but why 76% 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I believe it sounds distorted at 100%


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am trying to play cool and wait for the ST. Or if I decide I just want some good cheap digital transport a bit hard to decide._

 

The waiting game. Buying PC hardware is tricky. No matter what you buy, a little while later there is somthing else that you wished you had of waited for or bought instead.


----------



## leeperry

I've got no idea why my first impression OOTB w/ the 49720 resulted in a such bad SQ w/ ASIO on XP SP3(sound was muffled/distorted/poorly filtered)....so I put back the stock op-amps, and it was much better in KS! then I decided to put the 4562 and it was a major leap ahead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so after 3 days, I've decided to put back the 49720, and they indeed sound ever so slightly even more refined in KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so do yourself a favor, get some samples from National for $10 shipped....and sit down before putting the cans on your head, I'm this kind of guy who only takes perfection as an answer...and it's hard to fault this soundcard SQ-wise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 soundstage becomes HUGE and very involving, you're in the middle of the music....and the distorsion is simply inaudible, plus there's zillions of small details you had no clue even existed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but ditch all your mp3's, lossless is the motto! the remastered "enter the dragon" OST is simply out of this world


----------



## leeperry

it seems that the 49720 has clearer trebles, but slightly less bass than 4562 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but all I crave for is clear trebles, I can live w/ a bit less bass!

http://www.audiocom-uk.com/mod_inner.asp?id=67

  Quote:


 the CD63 uses an active op-amp circuit based on the JRC2114, another flavour of the industry standard ‘NE5532’ op-amp. We upgrade these op-amps to the excellent LME49720. This op-amp is essentially the same as the LM4562 but on A/B tests we have found the LME49720 is less “Hi-Fi” sounding. The LME49720 has extremely low noise, low distortion and high speed and provide stellar filtering for the DAC output.


----------



## leeperry




----------



## OlIv0rIolI

Hi everyone, I purchased the STX and just got it today however my computer is not detecting the sound card and I tried installing the drivers that it saids "please plug in your asus...stx audio device". The problem is very similar to Funky-kun who posted earlier here. I had the pci express on default which was "auto". I set it as 100mhz, but it still doesn't work!!

 Here is a link to my motherboard, it is a gigabyte p35 dq6 board.
GIGABYTE - Support&Download - Motherboard - Manual - GA-P35-DQ6 (rev. 1.0)

 On the PCI express lanes, I have already installed a nvidia 7900gs card on the first x16 slot and on the second x16slot which actually has only x4 lanes I installed a areca 1210 hdd PCI-express x8 controller card. Help please


----------



## Funky-kun

This seems to be some kind of compatibility failure with the motherboard. The ASUS forums failed to help me, as well as their tech support, so I can't really give you any helpful advice. Try the card on a different PC to be sure it works OK.


----------



## 12Bass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it seems that the 49720 has clearer trebles, but slightly less bass than 4562 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

Odd.... especially considering they are supposed to be the same exact part... though I also noticed that the LME49720 seemed a little bit clearer. However, if seeking sonic nirvana is your thing, IMO, the OPA211 (x2 in Browndog) sounds more "alive" and "organic".


----------



## leeperry

well I've tried the 49720, then I've put back the 4562....and indeed the sound seemed less refined. so I've put back the 49720 again(I'm getting really handy at switching these now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and it's definitely a winner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't really trust my brain for non A/B comparisons, but the 49720 sounds really fantastic! ok thanks for the tip, I've ordered some OPA211 samples...I will have a friend of mine soldering them on DIP8 adapters.

 I also plan to order TO99 metal 49720 and fit them (somehow) in the DIP8 adapters, everyone(even some National engineers) agrees that they sound better(better EMI shielding?)


----------



## genclaymore

if only they was free, I wouldnt mind trying a few of those TO99 my self. Since I will never beable to afford a pair let around one heh.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if only they was free, I wouldnt mind trying a few of those TO99 my self. Since I will never beable to afford a pair let around one heh._

 

Trouble with those is you need to use adapter to modify the footprint from TO-99 to DIP8 for use on soundcards with Xonars you have to remove the sheilding to install them and the size of the unit prevents the EMI/RFI sheilding from being re-installed. Some don't like that idea...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You may be able to get them to just squeeze under the sheilding depending on how you modify them for use in the socket. To note: I have two dual TO99 modules.


----------



## Telix

I'm going to take the 4 sets of op-amps I have and give them to my fiancee to put little stickers on them with numbers. Then I'm going to blind test, even though it's difficult to do it very well with the few minutes in between for switching. This is really the only way I'll be able to not be listening for a certain sound signature that I expect from reading people's impressions.


----------



## leeperry

..but some others say that the EMI shielding is bs to begin w/ : iXBT Labs - ASUS Xonar D2 Sound Card

  Quote:


 The screen on this card leaves a lot of questions. The problem with electromagnetic pickups inside a system unit are certainly exaggerated. Spectrum analysis in different computer configurations shows deterioration of results because of power interferences and grounding problems. Here is the proof - most professional cards can demonstrate the highest characteristics without any screens, and the Xonar D2 does not change its characteristics without its screen. Another oddity - the screen is covered with paint that does not conduct current. The paint apparently spells the death of the whole idea in places of contact with the ground. Our measurements show that the screen on our card is miraculously grounded. A close examination shows that the contact is ensured by screws that cut into the screen. But the situation is aggravated by paint on the screws, which does not let vibration unscrew them - so the screens on some cards may be ungrounded. Here is our advice to future owners of this card - you can remove the screen or scrape the paint off, where the grounding copper plates on the PCB touch the screen.

 Thus, the screen on the Xonar D2 has a symbolic value - it makes users feel safer, those who have no idea of the true physics here. There is at least one negative effect from using this screen - elements on the PCB get noticeably hotter, which raises intrinsic noises. This correlation is apparent, it's reflected in specifications of the converters. 
 

anyway, the STX shield doesn't conduct electricity(yes I tried 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), put some tape on top of the TO99 to be 200% safe.

 I'm just dubious about my skills fitting the TO99 in DIP8, but it's definitely doable....anyway I love the DIP8 49720 so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll recable my DT770 w/ UPOCC/furutech, I'll see where that leads me...Riding the Lion To Zion for sure


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to take the 4 sets of op-amps I have and give them to my fiancee to put little stickers on them with numbers. Then I'm going to blind test, even though it's difficult to do it very well with the few minutes in between for switching. This is really the only way I'll be able to not be listening for a certain sound signature that I expect from reading people's impressions._

 

The only way to know for sure is to test them yourself as it is very hard to go by another impressions. Everybody uses different gear and has different ears and tastes in sound. This is why I hesitate to give opinions for opamps as being better then this or that. I usually give a list and say try these.

 I have about 100 units of opamps as it gets to be a bit of a hobby in itself.


----------



## leeperry

apparently the LT1358 is also a winner, and linear.com does send samples...we need to find the best DIP8 from linear and TI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the TO99 49720 are indeed not free...and the DIP8 version sounds awesome tbh, anything better might simply be overkill 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: we'd be better off ordering AudioGd "Earth", no wasted money...just pure bliss! but I've got no idea how to fit the damn things in my case tbh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.audio-gd.com/enweb/pro/diy/OPA.htm


----------



## leeperry

I try to ignore this kind of post : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/mak...arnings-89714/

 I really don't wanna become the Patrick82 of op-amps..."aaahhh, w/ the LTOPA49158, there's is much better low level details" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the only worthy upgrade I could see is either the audio-gd discrete stuff, or TO99 49720...a friend of mine is gonna give me DIP8 holders and random TO99 chips so I can train


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm going to take the 4 sets of op-amps I have and give them to my fiancee to put little stickers on them with numbers. Then I'm going to blind test, even though it's difficult to do it very well with the few minutes in between for switching. This is really the only way I'll be able to not be listening for a certain sound signature that I expect from reading people's impressions._

 

Make sure you post your results from your opamp tests they may come in handy for others.


----------



## Symphoenix

Hi all,

 Just to inform you that i've ordered 2 OPA Moon Dual to replace the stock opamps of the I/V circuit (i only use a headphone).

 I'll keep you informed.

 See ya


----------



## hadouken

Nice summary on a fantastic card, Telix. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For me, the LM6172 op-amp's were great for my Sennheiser HD650, they were very bright and energetic which was great for livening up the senns. I would say that the LM6172's had a smaller soundstage which was also a good match for the HD650s as the soundstage was already quite large on them.

 Now that I'm using my DT990's though, I've switched to the LME49720 op-amps to counter-act the DT990's smaller soundstage and already prominent highs. Seems like a good pairing so far.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Symphoenix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just to inform you that i've ordered 2 OPA Moon Dual to replace the stock opamps of the I/V circuit (i only use a headphone).

 I'll keep you informed._

 

awesome! my fingers are badly itching over ordering 2 OPA Earth for the I/V 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can't believe how good the 49720 sound, I don't want it to stop anymore!!! I want the real deal babe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 upgraditis, here I come 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 apparently the Audio-GD require 50mA per dual op-amp, hope the card can give! and that I can fit the damn things...apparently they're 4cm high, shouldn't require extension cords...need...to...take...measurements 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS: *ah well : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/

http://home.comcast.net/~omaille/audio/BUGLE/opamp.html


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Symphoenix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all,

 Just to inform you that i've ordered 2 OPA Moon Dual to replace the stock opamps of the I/V circuit (i only use a headphone).

 I'll keep you informed.

 See ya_

 

Did you get the extension wires? There is not enough room to fit those units side by side in the STX I/V section.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *hadouken* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nice summary on a fantastic card, Telix. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For me, the LM6172 op-amp's were great for my Sennheiser HD650, they were very bright and energetic which was great for livening up the senns. I would say that the LM6172's had a smaller soundstage which was also a good match for the HD650s as the soundstage was already quite large on them.

 Now that I'm using my DT990's though, I've switched to the LME49720 op-amps to counter-act the DT990's smaller soundstage and already prominent highs. Seems like a good pairing so far._

 

That is really one of the best aspects of having opamps sockets is being able to tailor the frequency response to be a better match for the headphones or other gear your using.


----------



## leeperry

humm there's also bad reviews about the discrete op-amps, another one : diyAudio Forums - Marantz CD63 & CD67 mods list - Page 475

 I think I'll go TO99 49720, and I'll take it from there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LME49720HA-LM4...mZ280335048359

  Quote:


 We have introduced the more expensive HA version as we have found this screened opamp has more detail, bass and dynamics than the NA and MA versions. 
 

sounds good to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I love this very clean highly detailed audio, I'm really NOT looking for a tube/valve colored sound...and besides fitting them in the case will prove to be a major PITA.

 BTW, in that PDF the guy explains why a discrete op-amp is -supposedly- so much better : http://www.johnhardyco.com/pdf/990-2007.pdf

*PS: *this might prove easier than bending the TO99 leads : https://02b9b87.netsolstores.com/to-...n020601-1.aspx

 but that's some pretty extreme soldering


----------



## Symphoenix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you get the extension wires? There is not enough room to fit those units side by side in the STX I/V section._

 

Of course I did 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The more i read about it (either in good or in bad) the more impatient i become !!!


----------



## leeperry

any op-amp would be better than the stock 2114D....I think you should try the 49720 in the meantime 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 did you check the AudioGD reviews on HCFR?


----------



## genclaymore

one of these days I gonna get around of putting the LME49720 in my buffer to pair with my OPA2277's in I/V to see how they do with my Qinpu Q1.But first I have to pull my self away from 3x's OPA2277's.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_one of these days I gonna get around of putting the LME49720 in my buffer to pair with my OPA2277's in I/V to see how they do with my Qinpu Q1.But first I have to pull my self away from 3x's OPA2277's._

 

There are many great combinations for I/V and buffer. If you have good combination enjoy it.


----------



## jfourc

So I don't really know much about electronics. Which LM6172 and LME49720 opamps should I get? Or what's a good link or some quick info to learn about what kind of opamps work with the card? Thanks!


----------



## leeperry

get some LME49720NA(DIP8) samples from national, it will cost you a couple of bucks


----------



## Symphoenix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_did you check the AudioGD reviews on HCFR?_

 

Which one ?


----------



## leeperry

all the links in that page : homecinema-fr.com &bull; Voir le sujet - Ampli Discret Audio-GD Earth Moon Sun

 anyway the lossless soundtrack on the Kill Bill BD sounds nothing short of amazing now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ppl complain about MP3, but DTS is way worse to my ears...so lossy! there's several reviews that tend to prove that 448kbits AC3 sounds better than 1.5mbit DTS...movies w/ lossless audio tracks are pure bliss to me


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I don't really know much about electronics. Which LM6172 and LME49720 opamps should I get? Or what's a good link or some quick info to learn about what kind of opamps work with the card? Thanks!_

 

There are many different opamps version and types. The STX takes Dual channel opamps in DIP8 package. 

 You can use other audio opamps that are single channel or SOIC (surface Mount) but they will require adapters to work with the STX. Many audio grade opamps that people will suggest are surface mount and/or single channel units. 

 There are also TO-99 packages that are encased in metal cans. You can find these in single and dual channel units, use the appropriate adapters and install them on the STX. Good examples are OPA627SM and 637SM. 

 Hope this Helps.


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are many different opamps version and types. The STX takes Dual channel opamps in DIP8 package. 

 You can use other audio opamps that are single channel or SOIC (surface Mount) but they will require adapters to work with the STX. Many audio grade opamps that people will suggest are surface mount and/or single channel units. 

 There are also TO-99 packages that are encased in metal cans. You can find these in single and dual channel units, use the appropriate adapters and install them on the STX. Good examples are OPA627SM and 637SM. 

 Hope this Helps._

 

Thanks Rob, that was very helpful! I have a much better idea now about which versions of each chip I should I get. I ordered a some samples of the LME49720NA from National Semiconductor as some people have suggested (thanks leeperry). It's a steal considering I didn't have to pay anything (free shipping) with my .edu email address.


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I don't really know much about electronics. Which LM6172 and LME49720 opamps should I get? Or what's a good link or some quick info to learn about what kind of opamps work with the card? Thanks!_

 

Read the first freaking post.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Rob, that was very helpful! I have a much better idea now about which versions of each chip I should I get. I ordered a some samples of the LME49720NA from National Semiconductor as some people have suggested (thanks leeperry). It's a steal considering I didn't have to pay anything (free shipping) with my .edu email address._

 

Some like the LME49720NA, some say they sound the same as the LM4562NA's. The best way to know if you like any opamp is just to test it yourself.


----------



## leeperry

noone said that the 4562 sounded better than the 49720, so no need to bother..I did try both.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks Rob, that was very helpful! I have a much better idea now about which versions of each chip I should I get. I ordered a some samples of the LME49720NA from National Semiconductor as some people have suggested (thanks leeperry). It's a steal considering I didn't have to pay anything (free shipping) with my .edu email address._

 

Just so you can have the right information about these units. Look over the specifications sheets of both.

LM4562
LME49720

 You quickly see why many think they sound the same even before testing. After testing, some say yes and some say no. Your ears...


----------



## leeperry

lol you already quoted him once...and he didn't even ask about the difference between 4562/49720 in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 how about a third quote?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quite trolling your ruining the threads.


----------



## genclaymore

Theres nothing wrong with rob putting the info out there in greater detail.

 Edit: LME49720NA works better with my amp then 3xOPA227PA's in all of the slots. SO I using the same 2xOPA227PA's in my I/V with LME 49720NA in the buffer this time.


----------



## Bojamijams

seriously leeperry, give it a break already


----------



## leeperry

a break 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's been 4 days now...I would have hoped that my 49720 had broken in by now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I've ordered the TO99 49720, eager to hear whether there'll be any difference


----------



## jfourc

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Telix* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Read the first freaking post._

 

Sorry Telix, I did read you first post, which has been invaluable. But even though it does say that the opamps the STX uses are dual 8DIP, it didn't have any info about SOIC or TO-99 chips. Like I said, I don't really know much about electronics so I had no idea about what the differences between DIP, SOIC, and TO-99 were. Sorry again if I offended you.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jfourc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry Telix, I did read you first post, which has been invaluable. But even though it does say that the opamps the STX uses are dual 8DIP, it didn't have any info about SOIC or TO-99 chips. Like I said, I don't really know much about electronics so I had no idea about what the differences between DIP, SOIC, and TO-99 were. Sorry again if I offended you._

 

Don't worry about it. If you have any questions ask away.
 Many of us have been testing and working with opamps for years and some are just new to the game and trying to learn from others.


----------



## G-Con

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_a break 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's been 4 days now...I would have hoped that my 49720 had broken in by now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I've ordered the TO99 49720, eager to hear whether there'll be any difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Will a LME49720HA on a TO-99 to DIP 8 adapter fit underneath the removable cover? Obviously I'll take superior op amps over a cheap cover any day... unless I can skip the adapter and just bend the TO-99 pins to fit in the DIP 8 slot, as some people have mentioned... seems a little sketchy though.

 Leeperry: If I may ask, how do you plan on installing your TO-99 49720? (LME49720HA)



 Adapter: TO-99 to 8-pin DIP Adapter (p/n 020601B)


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G-Con* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Leeperry: If I may ask, how do you plan on installing your TO-99 49720? (LME49720HA)_

 

I plan on bending them, and put a piece of tape on top 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and if that really doesn't fit w/ the shield, an electronician friend of mine offered to solder them on browndog adapters.

 but ideally I'd like to do it on the ST, so I'm eagerly waiting for the ST to be available in HK(Asus told me that it was being delivered to distributors).

 anyway, that friend of mine will give me TO99 IC's and DIP8 holders, so I can try it risk-free 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but guys on diyaudio.com are pretty clear that bending TO99 to fit DIP8 is piece of cake


----------



## 12Bass

Bending should work, as long as you're extremely careful when cutting/bending the pins.


----------



## Jackbush

You can use other audio opamps that are single channel or SOIC (surface Mount) but they will require adapters to work with the STX. Many audio grade opamps that people will suggest are surface mount and/or single channel units.


----------



## G-Con

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I plan on bending them, and put a piece of tape on top 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Box sealing, double sided, duct, masking, filament, gaffers, hockey, medical, scotch, surgical... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so many tapes to chose from - Of course you mean a little circle of electricians tape on top of the opamp lol.


----------



## leeperry

I thought about regular electrician tape tbh, but having second thoughts I might just use a bit of Thermattach T412


----------



## OlIv0rIolI

My STX front panel audio doesn't work. I installed the hardware and wires correctly and everything. Are there software setting I have to play with that I am not aware of? Can someone help?

 Edit: OOps, I realized that you had to change the setting in software. Is there a way to make it automatic??

 Also The front panel audio has lots of static noise just like onboard sound when used with my headphone. Is this normal? Does anyone else have this problem? Any fixes? And for that matter does anyone actually use the front panel audio for their headphones?


----------



## Bojamijams

You're probably picking up EMI interference with the cables running through the middle of your computer, up to the front.. I'd recommend against using FP connections.. the jacks, the wiring, the molex connectors all scream cheapo.


----------



## OlIv0rIolI

You are probably right, though I realy like to use the front panel connector.

 Another thing is I noticed that the sound is different when you use windoes Vista vs. XP. I had duel boot setup so I had to install the drivers on both OS and I was able to find this out.

 The sound in XP has more soundstage and it feels like there I am inside a chamber and there is a lot of depth. The vista sound same as before with the onboard sound, only with more clarity. Anyone else has this?


----------



## Bojamijams

People have noted a difference between XP and Vista sound with the positive nod generally going in the Vista's direction.. it has a lot to do with Vista apparently automatically bypassing the kmixer whereas XP you need to use something for it (asio, etc.)


----------



## OlIv0rIolI

Can you explain Kmixer or asio? I am still a newb and I am unfamilar with all these terms thrown around here


----------



## OlIv0rIolI

I still haven't decided whether I like XP or Vista sound better. They are different. The XP sound is something very new to me while the Vista is more familiar, thus comfortable. I will need to listen for a while to decide


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it has a lot to do with Vista apparently automatically bypassing the kmixer whereas XP you need to use something for it (asio, etc.)_

 

Vista also resamples in DirectSound by design...WASAPI exclusive is great, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hearing difference between bit-perfect API's(ASIO/DirectKS/WASAPI) sounds awkward to me....but some ppl say that some players sound better than others ?!

 I guess you NEVER really know what the OS/audio drivers do in the back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this site measured that the ASIO component in foobar is pretty flaky : Universal Soldier: ASUS Xonar D2 PM Sound Card Review (page 9) - X-bit labs

 I personally use DirectKS in foobar on XP SP3, so far so good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, how is the games compatibility on this card? coz finding a working video playback solution was pretty damn hard(CoreAVC CUDA crashes XP instantly, and so does AC3Filter after a while 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)....and I've read reports of BSOD's in games too...


----------



## genclaymore

If you meant STX, Then I haven had any BSOD in any of my games and game demos I tried, But then I am on a HDAV and not a STX .But it should be fine since the drivers are nearly the same minus some small diffence.

 Edit: only few needed me to disable GX but that was a no biggie for me any way.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you meant STX, Then I haven had any BSOD in any of my games and game demos I tried, But then I am on a HDAV and not a STX .But it should be fine since the drivers are nearly the same minus some small diffence.

 Edit: only few needed me to disable GX but that was a no biggie for me any way._

 

I have been using the STX probably longer then most and I have never seen a BSOD, ever.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you meant STX, Then I haven had any BSOD in any of my games and game demos I tried, But then I am on a HDAV and not a STX .But it should be fine since the drivers are nearly the same minus some small diffence.

 Edit: only few needed me to disable GX but that was a no biggie for me any way._

 

right now, I'm in HiFi mode...you mean I should check the "GX" button to run games?

 I use the Logic7 binaural downmix matrix for 5.1>stereo downmix, I guess GX is not using inverted phase for back speakers to create a pseudo-3D sound on headphones? David Griesinger is the god of mixing matrixes...far better than Dolby Headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music works perfectly fine in foobar/KS and movies in KMP w/ HR+Reclock in 48Hz+ffdshow audio&video 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not much of a gamer anyway, but BSOD's really make me sad....so I'd rather avoid that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've received three TO99 49720 BTW, still waiting for the DIP8 holders/dummy TO99 from my friend to experiment.


----------



## G-Con

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought about regular electrician tape tbh, but having second thoughts I might just use a bit of Thermattach T412 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Does that tape conduct electricity? I can only find its thermal specifications; no reference to electrical conductivity.

 I just got my LME49720HA's from digikey. Tonight I'm going to try getting them in without using an adapter.


----------



## leeperry

nope, it doesn't conduct electricity...only heat.

 well be damn sure to wire it properly, the top pins are backward I think.

 and did you try the DIP8 47920 already? coz it'd be interesting to actually compare them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as my friend put it : http://nsa07.casimages.com/img/2009/...1434666580.jpg


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_right now, I'm in HiFi mode...you mean I should check the "GX" button to run games?

 I use the Logic7 binaural downmix matrix for 5.1>stereo downmix, I guess GX is not using inverted phase for back speakers to create a pseudo-3D sound on headphones? David Griesinger is the god of mixing matrixes...far better than Dolby Headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 music works perfectly fine in foobar/KS and movies in KMP w/ HR+Reclock in 48Hz+ffdshow audio&video 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not much of a gamer anyway, but BSOD's really make me sad....so I'd rather avoid that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've received three TO99 49720 BTW, still waiting for the DIP8 holders/dummy TO99 from my friend to experiment._

 

All GX mode does is enable EAX5/ H/W/Hardware openGL emulation/Surround sound(if game isnt using software mixer). Doesnt really matter if it off as DH works reguardless if turned on. 

 Gx mode doesnt enable DH, thats Game mode, and that game mode uses some stupid DH2 setting which adds a echo,So I manaully set it to DH1 when I gaming.Which doesnt have that echo and trash.


----------



## leeperry

yeah, I really can't stand DH personally..way too "wet", too hollow. the Logic7 matrixes are just very dry and very 3D, I use them in both ffdshow audio for 5.1 movies and foobar for DVD-A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you can set most games to stereo, so I don't realy understand what the EAX fuss is all about....my previous M-Audio Audiophile USB had no "game" mode, and all the games I tried(mostly FPS like Crysis etc...) played just fine.


----------



## Symphoenix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use the *Logic7 binaural downmix matrix for 5.1>stereo downmix*, I guess GX is not using inverted phase for back speakers to create a pseudo-3D sound on headphones? David Griesinger is the god of mixing matrixes...far better than Dolby Headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Is this a software solution or does it need some hardware stuff to work ?


----------



## leeperry

it's a copyrighted mixing matrix from his inventor : http://www.davidgriesinger.com/

 let's just say that if you look hard enough, it's all explained on his website


----------



## aasat

I think 127dB in unbalanced mode do not make sense.

 Emu 1212m with balanced out is better than unbalanced Xonar


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *aasat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think 127dB in unbalanced mode do not make sense.

 Emu 1212m with balanced out is better than unbalanced Xonar_

 

How does it not make sense?
 ...and "better" according to what?


----------



## laobrasuca

Fast question about the LME49720 packing. Does the LME49720MA share the same dimensions as the LME49720NA? I mean, does the LME49720MA fit into the sockets (stx, zero or other)? I've ordered a MA and I'm afraid it doesn't, but I'd like to be sure.

 thx, lao


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *laobrasuca* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fast question about the LME49720 packing. Does the LME49720MA share the same dimensions as the LME49720NA? I mean, does the LME49720MA fit into the sockets (stx, zero or other)? I've ordered a MA and I'm afraid it doesn't, but I'd like to be sure.

 thx, lao_

 

NO the MA will not just fit into the socket. See if you can change your order. 
 The MA model is a SOIC chip which means it is physically smaller and meant for surface mount soldering. You cannot use that on the STX or other device with a DIP socket without an SOIC to DIP adapter. 

 You need the NA model as that is the DIP8 version and will judt snap into the card or device.

 Here is the MA package: SOIC chip package
 But, you need this:
 DIP8 Chip Package: MDIP Chip package

 Just to clarify, you can really use any of the packages SOIC,SOICN To-99, MDIP..etc. but they will require adapters and some soldering and know how. The Sockets on the STX and most other devices that are meant to allow the end uder to install opamps will be Dip8. -Which means *D*ual *I*nline *P*ackage with 8 pins.

 Hope that Helps.


----------



## laobrasuca

thank you for the fast answer Steven, it helps and clarify a lot. Very stupid from me... I've just send them an e-mail, I hope they did not ship the chips yet...

 thx once again, Leo


----------



## jfourc

Can anyone in the US who has got op amp samples from National Semiconductor share with me how long it takes for them to deliver the samples? Thanks!


----------



## G-Con

I got a pair of LME49720HA's and after meticulously bending the round grid of pins into the DIP8 square shape and firmly pressing them into the socket, I threw it into the computer to see how I fared!... 

*A note to everyone out there*: if you look underneath the STX at the dip 8 sockets, you will see 7 round points and 1 square point. The square point is pin #1.

 It was a spectacular failure actually...

 I was damn certain every pin was in contact, but I still got some terrible audio from the card. In short, I lost bass. I mean straight up lost it... poof, it vanished, like the card forgot how to make sound lower than 200 hrz. On a 0 to 500 frequency sweep, it sounded like it never dipped below 200 hrz, - from 200 to 0 it sounded like it was actually 200 to 180, the pitch came down slightly and it got a bit quieter but there was no low frequency response. I wasn't able to give them an extended listen because once I realized there was no bass (took about 1 minute) I quickly turned off the computer and replaced them with the stock JRC's.

 I hope it was just a bad connection (and that I haven't fried these precious opamps) I've ordered a pair of TO-99 to DIP8 adapters from brown dog - I'll have to find a local shop that can solder them to the adapter for me.

 I need these op amps, I can't handle the stock JRC's any longer, they sound terrible. The treble is so painfully harsh I almost can't listen to music. Cymbals have no life; they sound distorted and have no musical quality. Any time a vocalist "SSSays SSSomething" the 'S' sound is almost pure distortion - harshly unforgiving treble. BUT! At least I have bass with the JRC's.


----------



## leeperry

so the card is OK now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 you did bend them in the right order, right? and the leads were not in contact w/ the op-amps cap or the STX shield?

 you kinda scare me now...but I know fzman did it on his STX and that it went smoooth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get some LME49720NA DIP8 samples from the manufacturer?! will cost ya $10 shipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 oh yes, the stock JRC are simply unbearable..


----------



## G-Con

I quintuple checked the pin diagrams - I'm 110% sure the pins were in the correct orientation. It was a pretty sketchy operation getting them snugly in the socket. Upon visual inspection it looked like every pin was seated properly.

 Honestly I don't know what a botched op amp installation sounds like... do you get some sound but not all?... like thin/airy mids and highs and no lows?

 I'll clarify, I was indeed able to play music - but it sounded very light and airy... It's not like I just heard static or nothing at all.


----------



## leeperry

ok, but the card is OK now w/ the stock JRC? I mean you didn't kill the card? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I dunno what an improperly seated op-amp would sound like, might wanna ask on diyaudio.com

 the diagrams were from a top view, you took that into account right?

 tomorrow I should be getting my dummy TO99 + DIP8 holders, if that seems too risky....I'll just fugghedaboutit


----------



## fzman

this may or not be relevant, but i have also been swapping between two versions of the prodigy hd2 sound cards in my other computer, and at one point could not figure out why the sound was thin, and at very reduced volume. when i removed that card, i noticed that there was NO chip in the output buffer position.... so, it seems like you did not have the opamp seated correctly

 bending the pins is a matter of lining up the little tab, which is directly above pin 8, grab it, and the next 3 which are counterclockwise from pin 8


 then take the other 4 pins and make them the other row. when you are holding the card with the outputs to your left, pins one and eight should be to the left side of the socket (the side with the 1/2 circle cutout.....


 pushing it in firmly to the socket, and making sure the pins don;t touch the case of the can are important, and will probably sound a little better than soldering it to another socket....

 see if that works




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G-Con* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I quintuple checked the pin diagrams - I'm 110% sure the pins were in the correct orientation. It was a pretty sketchy operation getting them snugly in the socket. Upon visual inspection it looked like every pin was seated properly.

 Honestly I don't know what a botched op amp installation sounds like... do you get some sound but not all?... like thin/airy mids and highs and no lows?

 I'll clarify, I was indeed able to play music - but it sounded very light and airy... It's not like I just heard static or nothing at all._


----------



## G-Con

Place the STX face up on a table with the PCI-E pins closest to you (I/O's on the left, 4pin molex on the right)

 The STX DIP8 pin numbers looks like this:

 8-7-6-5

 1-2-3-4

 Looking at the TO-99 top down (cant see the pins) the notch on the edge marks pin 8:

 ______^
 ______8
 ____1__7
 ___2____6 (Sorry for the lines... the forum removed my spaces 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 ____3__5
 _____4



 The notched pin (8) and the next three pins going clockwise all get bent into a line and goes into the top row on the DIP8 bracket, remaining four goes on the bottom row. The notch on the 49270HA points towards the I/O ports.

 fzman you said grab the counterclock pins but I'm pretty sure that is incorrect, you mean clockwise yes? 

 Here's the pin diagram:
http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/lme49720_ha_pinout.pdf

 Pics: 8-pin DIP to TO-99 Adaptor


----------



## leeperry

hopefully the card is OK, this would be a slight seating problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW fzman I see you sell all kind of gear on your website(HD800 and so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), how would you rate the STX+LME49720 headphones amp?

 many ppl diss it, but they only tried it w/ the lousy stock JRC...the amount of details on the 49720 is just astonishing.

SONY CDP101 Modification - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

  Quote:


 All opamps from the start of digital era were not made for audio applications.!!! Until a few years back and now like the LME opamp is strictly design for hi-end audio 
 

 Quote:


 so far nothing beats LME49720 except the Burson opamp


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hopefully the card is OK, this would be a slight seating problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW fzman I see you sell all kind of gear on your website(HD800 and so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), how would you rate the STX+LME49720 headphones amp?

 many ppl diss it, but they only tried it w/ the lousy stock JRC...the amount of details on the 49720 is just astonishing.

SONY CDP101 Modification - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums_

 

I've tried quite a few opamps (see profile) over a period of a few months and have confirmed that the LME49720 sounds the best overall. IMO, it's apparent almost immediately, and long-term listening only supports that finding. I wouldn't say they're the best in every area though. The bass definition and impact (especially deep bass) isn't as good as some of the other opamps I've tried. The transients, while good, are again not as good as the best in that area. All that aside though, they have many advantages over the other bunch and overall have the most accurate, detailed and open sound, without being harsh. Keep in mind they do have a sound signature of their own that may or may not gel with the rest of your system. They have a smooth extended treble, and are warm in the lower midrange. They are also a bit subdued in the upper midrange/lower treble which contributes to their non-fatiguing quality and expansive soundstage.

 Also, connecting a true headphone amp to the line-out or headphone out (even with the high gain setting) improves the sound quality noticeably. It does atleast in my case. I use the STX amped output in high gain mode (not low or extra high...they don't sound as good) fed into the M^3 and it is a combination I'm so happy with, that I don't think I'll be upgrading my headphone setup for a while.


----------



## leeperry

the highest impedance setting sounds utterly saturated on my 600Ω cans, the lowest sounds dull and not controlled...the mid one sounds perfect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 these 49720 are not perfect, a slight lack of bass(but it sounds natural! I don't want a DT770/Pro-like subwoofer bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), the upper medium sounds highly detailed and very transparent, the soundstage VERY involving...I understand that all non-discrete op-amps are a compromise, and apparently the TO99 49720 does improve the bass reponse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and that total lack of distorsion just makes them delightful, they actually carry more details than my ears can hear at once...I usually need several listens to catch'em all


----------



## leeperry

ok I've received my dummy TO99 + DIP8 holder, I just would like to know if G-Con fried his card


----------



## leeperry

it's very easy to trim/bend, I'd have done it right away...but G-Con put me off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm sure the shield would even close(w/ some electrician tape on the cap)


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, connecting a true headphone amp to the line-out or headphone out (even with the high gain setting) improves the sound quality noticeably. It does atleast in my case. I use the STX amped output in high gain mode (not low or extra high...they doesn't sound as good) fed into the M^3 and it is a combination I'm so happy with, that I don't think I'll be upgrading my headphone setup for a while._

 

I'm using the STX -> M3 as well though, through the line out. It seems you're using the headphone out to feet it into the M3... with I guess some kind of a 1/4 -> RCA splitter? If so.. why not just straight line-out?


----------



## fzman

here's a drawing from the data sheet - which i believe shows it from the bottom lme49713.jpg and one from the top lme49713top.jpg

 this should allow you to bend them correctly. i've done about 12 of these between 49713s, 49710s, and 49720s, so i am pretty sure i know how to do it.

 they benefit from a slight trim of lead lengths, and you have to push them in so they make good contact, but without shorting them to the can itself. as i have mentioned before, doing a dry-run with a spare ic socket helps, and the pins will hold their "molded" shape after they've been socketed for a day. you can also get out the dmm, and check for continuity between the pins and the can body to make sure they are not shorting. put an insulator on the shield, not the ic, and you should be fine.

 hope that helps a bit more


----------



## dex85

does anybody know what is the best place to buy op-amps in europe? my local shops ask €25 for shipping from usa which is 2x more than op-amps i want. so any shops in europe that have op-amps actually in stock and don't overcharge on shipping?


----------



## leeperry

it was actually a lot easier to insert them in the STX holders than in the dummy one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sound seems more bassy, but still very clear upper spectrum...less "thin", more "weight"...hope it won't change in the next burn-in days, coz I always had the feeling that the DIP8 4562/49720 would "lose" bass after break-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: the trebles are definitely even cleaner 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, fzman, you didn't answer me about the STX+49720HA...does it hold to other <$300 external DAC's on top gear? like the HD800 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anybody know what is the best place to buy op-amps in europe?_

 

ask National for samples


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_does anybody know what is the best place to buy op-amps in europe? my local shops ask €25 for shipping from usa which is 2x more than op-amps i want. so any shops in europe that have op-amps actually in stock and don't overcharge on shipping?_

 

You can try Digi-Key, they are have a large selection and outlets in Europe.
 They should be OK for shipping.


----------



## leeperry




----------



## Bojamijams

and the EMI cover still fits?


----------



## gurubhai

loving the 2 X LM49720 in I/V converter sockets.
 perfect match for my denons.
 treble has become much clearer & better controlled.
 Bass is reduced a bit in quantity but is tighter & punchier than before & overall bass is more impactful than before.

 pushed my HP upgrade for later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ordered for 49720HA as well but am in no hurry to try them.


----------



## leeperry

well the SS has also become even wider, if that was even possible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes, the shield DOES fit


----------



## dex85

thanks guys, i emailed the Digi-Key. hopefully they will ship them over here


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the STX -> M3 as well though, through the line out. It seems you're using the headphone out to feet it into the M3... with I guess some kind of a 1/4 -> RCA splitter? If so.. why not just straight line-out?_

 

Make that three in the STX -> M3 club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I'm feeding through the lineout as well and I found better SQ that way tbh + that I can hook up my AD700 to the headphone out so I can use Dolby Headphone while gaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have to put the volume to 1 (yes 1!) for the AD700's lol. Even then it's sometimes too loud thus I have to change the game volume in game.


----------



## G-Con

leeperry: Haha, perhaps I should have been clear that my card was definately not fried by my attempts. I did only try the one time to get 49270 working, I didn't attempt to reseat them. I'm going to give it another go after work today. I think I have to bend the pins a bit better, make them straighter and more vertical like DIP8 pins.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks guys, i emailed the Digi-Key. hopefully they will ship them over here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

They should as they have outlets in Europe IIRC.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Make that three in the STX -> M3 club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 I'm feeding through the lineout as well and I found better SQ that way tbh + that I can hook up my AD700 to the headphone out so I can use Dolby Headphone while gaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have to put the volume to 1 (yes 1!) for the AD700's lol. Even then it's sometimes too loud thus I have to change the game volume in game._

 

Yeah thats what I'm doing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well Lineout to the Audioengine A5's then a pass-through into the M3.. and using the headphone jack for my gaming headphones.. great combo


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G-Con* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_leeperry: Haha, perhaps I should have been clear that my card was definately not fried by my attempts. [...] going to give it another go after work today._

 

you essentially need to trim them as short as possible, so the shield fits and the leads might introduce distortion and so if they're too long I think.

 anyway, all I can say is that bass is back w/ a vengeance!


----------



## G-Con

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyway, all I can say is that bass is back w/ a vengeance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Bass response is really that much better on the HA's vs. NA's hmm?


----------



## leeperry

diyAudio Forums - National opamp inflation - Page 2

 audioman54 is a National engineer.


----------



## taso89

BTW LME49720NA's are completely FREE (even the shipping) if you use a school or work e-mail address on the National website. I withheld with ordering samples until yesterday when I remembered ordering some LM4562's way back. Ordered 4 49720's for free =]


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using the STX -> M3 as well though, through the line out. It seems you're using the headphone out to feet it into the M3... with I guess some kind of a 1/4 -> RCA splitter? If so.. why not just straight line-out?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Make that three in the STX -> M3 club 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 I'm feeding through the lineout as well and I found better SQ that way tbh + that I can hook up my AD700 to the headphone out so I can use Dolby Headphone while gaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I have to put the volume to 1 (yes 1!) for the AD700's lol. Even then it's sometimes too loud thus I have to change the game volume in game._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah thats what I'm doing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well Lineout to the Audioengine A5's then a pass-through into the M3.. and using the headphone jack for my gaming headphones.. great combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I tried both extensively. With my setup (listed in my profile), the amped output (on the high gain) fed into the M^3 sounded the best. It depends on the opamps you use in the M^3.


----------



## Bojamijams

Where did you get a 1/4 -> RCA IC?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get a 1/4 -> RCA IC?_

 

Actually, those IC's are very common in recording circles, you could always solder up a custom one.
 Is this what you mean, LINK
 I use those for insert effects on audio mixers.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Where did you get a 1/4 -> RCA IC?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, those IC's are very common in recording circles, you could always solder up a custom one.
 Is this what you mean, LINK
 I use those for insert effects on audio mixers._

 

Yes, Rob has the right ones. The ones I specifically use are the Monster iCables. They are of decent quality. Here's the link: Monster® iCable® for iPod® and iPhone

 However, if you'd like even better RCA-to-mini cables, go to Blue Jeans' website and order from there. They cost under $50.


----------



## leeperry

OK, after 1 day of burn-in...the sound hasn't changed! great bass, super transparent upper spectrum and HUGE soundstage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, getting such a clear sound is nice and all, but distortion is simply inaudible...so I tend to listen REALLY too loud 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 need to educate myself I guess


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, Rob has the right ones. The ones I specifically use are the Monster iCables. They are of decent quality. Here's the link: Monster® iCable® for iPod® and iPhone™

 However, if you'd like even better RCA-to-mini cables, go to Blue Jeans' website and order from there. They cost under $50._

 

The ones you linked to are 3.5mm to dual RCA. Are you using a 1/4" to mini jack adapter on the end?

 To note, A basic cable and adaptor set is good to have around especially if you get into connecting your soudncard to various audio devices.

 I have a huge tupperware container filled with every kind of cable you can think of and a smaller tacklebox full of adpters. -Very handy when recording and using a mixer. I still run into situation where I don't have the right adapter or cable for the job.


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm just surprised that an amplified signal thats amplified again by the M3 wouldn't create some weird oscillation issues and that it wouldn't sound just.. bad... but apparently it sounds quite good .. to one person I understand, but I'm curious now to see if I'd like it too.. I just assumed that was a big no-no


----------



## ROBSCIX

It depends on how you look at it. Your basically driving one amplifier from another, actually that is done all the time in different ways.
 Aslong as your not overdriving the inputs of your second amplifier you should be good.
 Many might say it is frowned upon, but your gear and your ears. Enjoy.


----------



## leeperry

BTW, I use foobar in KS w/ foobar...opening IE6 on XP SP3 while playing a track is fine, but w/ firefox3 there's an audible audio blank ?!
 I've always found FF3 utterly slow to open up, but it's even killing foobar(which runs in high priority)..yes my HDD is defragmented 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this slow opening time has always been very annoying anyway, but w/ my previous USB soundcard it didn't make any glitch...time to try Safary and Chrome


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just surprised that an amplified signal thats amplified again by the M3 wouldn't create some weird oscillation issues and that it wouldn't sound just.. bad... but apparently it sounds quite good .. to one person I understand, but I'm curious now to see if I'd like it too.. I just assumed that was a big no-no_

 

Are you going to keep your system connected in this manner or are you going back to line-outs?


----------



## Bojamijams

I've always been line-out and still am.. I was just referring to Shahrose's setup where he feeds the M3 through the headphone out.. I'll try it when I get around to picking up a 1/4 -> RCA connector.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've always been line-out and still am.. I was just referring to Shahrose's setup where he feeds the M3 through the headphone out.. I'll try it when I get around to picking up a 1/4 -> RCA connector._

 

Just some tests. I see. I use the line outs also.
 You could always use a 1/4" to mini adapter and add a minijack to RCA cable. Not optimal but I figure you may have these cables and adapters around around.


----------



## taso89

Quick question.. the sound on headphones straight through the line-out is fantastic, even better than the headphone out jack.. But I read somewhere that the impedance (40-50ohm) of the line out is not designed for headphones and that extended use can overload and wear out the opamps. Is this true?


----------



## Bojamijams

Well don't take my answer as the ultimate truth on this, but 40-50ohm shouldn't be TOO bad. Its when you get to 32 and under and that you really really shouldn't use the line-out. 

 For example, that D2000 which is 25ohm, really shouldn't be plugged in there. HD600 would be okay, except I doubt you could get sufficient volume. But can try.


----------



## taso89

Oh, you can get sufficient volume no problem. On the HD600, by like 20% it's already more than loud enough! I was just concerned with overdriving the sound card or opamps.


----------



## leeperry

ouh, the idea of going through the 3x LME49720 only makes me all wet dreaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the impedance setting in the drivers still works on the line-out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you have to choose "2 speakers" I guess?


----------



## Bojamijams

You have to use 2 speakers to use line out.. which doesn't have the gain options available to it


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ouh, the idea of going through the 3x LME49720 only makes me all wet dreaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the impedance setting in the drivers still works on the line-out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you have to choose "2 speakers" I guess?_

 

There is no "impedance setting" -it is gain setting.
 Headphone settings do not affect the line_outs...


----------



## taso89

Yeah there are no gain settings but I don't see why they would be needed, my HD600s are driven well at "20% speaker volume" driven straight out of the RCA to mini female cable that comes with the Essence.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah there are no gain settings but I don't see why they would be needed, but HD600 are driven well at "20% speaker volume" driven straight out of the RCA to mini female cable that comes with the Essence._

 

I think most around here would tell you to use a amplifier with the HD600's but it's your gear and your ears. Set it up how you wish.
 To note: The line outs have 124dB SNR and the Headphones out has a 117dB SNR.
 You have good bass and signal response with just line outs?
 Do you have any external amplifiers to connect to line outs to compare?


----------



## leeperry

alright, makes sense...so I guess it'd be more or less equal to the min. impedance setting...that sounds dull, still worth a try I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I've ordered some Monster cables so whenever the bloody ST will be available, I will RMAA the mid impedance HP setting and the line-out w/ the stock op-amps/the metal 49720 and w/ and w/o the shield 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ixbtlabs.com says that D2 shield actually doesn't do ANY shielding(it's all done on the PCB) and that the additional heat will actually increase the distorsion...time to double-check on that


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The ones you linked to are 3.5mm to dual RCA. Are you using a 1/4" to mini jack adapter on the end?

 I have a huge tupperware container filled with every kind of cable you can think of and a smaller tacklebox full of adpters. -Very handy when recording and using a mixer. I still run into situation where I don't have the right adapter or cable for the job.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, I'm using a 1/4 inch adapter at the end. I've also accumulated a library of cables that I store in multiple bags now. Always good to have the right cable on hand!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm just surprised that an amplified signal thats amplified again by the M3 wouldn't create some weird oscillation issues and that it wouldn't sound just.. bad... but apparently it sounds quite good .. to one person I understand, but I'm curious now to see if I'd like it too.. I just assumed that was a big no-no_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on how you look at it. Your basically driving one amplifier from another, actually that is done all the time in different ways.
 Aslong as your not overdriving the inputs of your second amplifier you should be good.
 Many might say it is frowned upon, but your gear and your ears. Enjoy._

 

If we were technically proficient enough, we'd be able to explain the phenomena, but the truth of the matter is, we're not. From our relatively basic understanding, amping a signal twice would sound worse than the line-outs, (and it does with a lot of opamp combinations), but with my setup that's not the case. Thus, the basic rule I've come to follow for audio is whatever sounds good is good. 

 I suggest you try it out yourself. If you'd like to emulate my gear/opamps to test it, check my profile.

 Something else I noticed that would be important to keep in mind: the gain settings on the card matter and make an audible difference in sound quality. I found the low gain sounds loose and flat, the extra high gain can get too dry and harsh. The medium gain setting I found was the best of the three.

 Edit (Update): My equipment is always in flux and so for anyone seeing this post for the first time, it would be confusing to read advice that was made concerning my old gear. I have since switched back to the line-outs to feed the M^3 amp because of a change of opamps in the M^3. All changes are reflected in my profile, and this is the setup I've found to have the best SQ thus far.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think most around here would tell you to use a amplifier with the HD600's but it's your gear and your ears. Set it up how you wish.
 To note: The line outs have 124dB SNR and the Headphones out has a 117dB SNR.
 You have good bass and signal response with just line outs?
 Do you have any external amplifiers to connect to line outs to compare?_

 

I have a Little Dot I+ which isn't the best amp suited for the HD600, but to my ears it sounded just about the same as the line-outs themselves, perhaps a little more "warm" which can be attributed to the tubes but not necessarily "better" than the line-outs themselves. 

 To my ears, the HD600 is driven better from the line-out than from the built-in headphone amp. On the line-outs the sound is more "balanced," the bass has great texture and authority (something I was missing with the headphone out) but also getting more detail and across the board is pleasant to listen to. Can't wait for my LME49720's to come in


----------



## Bojamijams

Just goes to show you how different phones are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I tried the RS1 through the Lineout (vs the headphone out) it lacked a lot of 'oomph' and punch.. I'm guessing this is whole "grado's like current" thing.


----------



## taso89

I know what you mean, there was a good kick in the headphone out, very fast and dynamic, but for me at the expense of a pleasant listening experience. The headphone out made me twitch sometimes from too much punch, you could say. Not to say one is better than the other, but certainly quite different.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, I use foobar in KS w/ foobar...opening IE6 on XP SP3 while playing a track is fine, but w/ firefox3 there's an audible audio blank ?!
 I've always found FF3 utterly slow to open up, but it's even killing foobar(which runs in high priority)..yes my HDD is defragmented 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 this slow opening time has always been very annoying anyway, but w/ my previous USB soundcard it didn't make any glitch...time to try Safari and Chrome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

ok so IE6 never makes any audible glitch, Chrome does make some when I close it and Safari when I open it(just like FF3)...this didn't occur w/ my previous M-Audio USB soundcard.

 gonna have to resort to more obscure browsers I guess, like Opera or sumthing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I run foobar in high priority and its thread runs at the highest priority too...I guess the Asus driver doesn't.

*EDIT:* ok cool, Opera9 doesn't glitch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



*EDIT2:* after 3 days of burn-in, these metal 49720 are leaving me literally


----------



## neongod

Hi, does anyone knows if this sound card has a good tension output and a low impedance on the two main RCA (I don't mind about TRS for the headphones).
 I need numbers if it'spossible, I can't find them anywhere.

 Thanks


----------



## taso89

Finally some impressions with 3xLME49720's! 

 These remind me of the iGrados I once owned (and regret selling 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 though they were uncomfortable as hell). The first thing that comes to mind is: natural. These opamps take "the electronic edge" out of the music, so to say. 

 The selling point (heh, they were free) is that voices sounded magical, mids become smooth, almost liquidy. Bass did not change in amount, but did become tighter with more attack. Highs are about the same, perhaps a little less fatiguing. 

 Overall, a very musical opamp that is an absolute pleasure to listen to (both on the line-outs with speakers and yes, even the headphone out that I dreaded just a couple of posts ago).


----------



## gurubhai

changed the 49720NA with 49720HA. Had to trim the legs a bit to fit the shield.
 First impression is that the HA version just feels much more musical than NA.

 More listening


----------



## ROBSCIX

HA version form National are higher spec and tighter tolerance when fabricating. You could call them Mil Spec (Military Spec)


----------



## leeperry

the measurements between NA and HA are identical, at least from what the datasheets and the National engineer I quoted on the previous page say.

 the reason why the metal cans sound better than the NA is apparently unknown...but god, do they sound better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the low end bass is actually there, and the soundstage is ever so slightly wider and more refined...a freakin' miracle


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the measurements between NA and HA are identical, at least from what the datasheets and the National engineer I quoted on the previous page say.

 the reason why the metal cans sound better than the NA is apparently unknown...but god, do they sound better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the low end bass is actually there, and the soundstage is ever so slightly wider and more refined...a freakin' miracle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Um, the LME49720HA only comes in TO99 doesn't it, so sorry to sound nub but, how did you get it to fit the DIP8 designed opamp spaces?

 Got any pics of yours to help maybe?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Um, the LME49720HA only comes in TO99 doesn't it, so sorry to sound nub but, how did you get it to fit the DIP8 designed opamp spaces?

 Got any pics of yours to help maybe?_

 

They twist the lead to fit in the socket. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The HA designates the TO-99 part for this company. You can get dip8 version and SOIC version also.
 The LME49720 has exactly the same specs and measurments as the LM4562 part line. Both opamps have been tested thoroughly since their release. National says the only difference is the part# on the chip.
 Some say they hear a difference and some say no. Opinions vary.


----------



## leeperry

*@chinesekiwi* : I've posted pics on page 10


----------



## ROBSCIX

@chinesekiwi, if your interested in using TO-99 chips get some adapters. Here is the right one for those units: TO-99 to Dip8 Adapter


----------



## leeperry

more connections = less clean signal.

 and soldering these things is gonna be tough....but well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that National engineer I quoted also bends TO99 to fit DIP8, let's assume that he knows what he's up to


----------



## ROBSCIX

What do you think you get with the leads hanging out there? 
 You obvisouly have no electrnoics experience as that would is a definate no-no and worse when considering audio electronics. 
 You can do it, but there are better ways such as using a adapter and I would bet the signal is much cleaner using the adapter then just poking the leads into the socket and having all the extra lead exposed to EMI/RFI.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_that National engineer I quoted also bends TO99 to fit DIP8, let's assume that he knows what he's up to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For Quick Testing!! -Let's assume the you can misunderstand anything you quote.
 Pushing them into the socket is simply not the right way to do it. 
 If you don't care that is fine.

 If you like them and aren't going to be changing them anymore, install them on those adapters and install the adapters on the STX. Remove the DIP socket altogether.
 To trouble with installing them as you suggested is the connection is not solid.
 If you want to install them as you suggest, go ahead but understand it is not correct and far from optimal for many reasons.
 Your card, do with it as you will.


----------



## gurubhai

using an adapter would have been easier (the soldering should take less than a couple of minutes ). But I was not sure if it still would fit the shield and since the adapters were not available locally so I just decided not to wait and went ahead with HA fitting.
 I was very careful though to place the legs in their correct respective positions and not just to poke them.
 I think it was worth the effort though unless the audiophile placebo is taking me over


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You obvisouly have no electrnoics experience as that would is a definate no-no and worse_

 

all your base are belong to me


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_HA version form National are higher spec and tighter tolerance when fabricating. You could call them Mil Spec (Military Spec)_

 

I am guessing it means that HA version goes through tighter quality control measures. Is that so?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_using an adapter would have been easier (the soldering should take less than a couple of minutes ). But I was not sure if it still would fit the shield and since the adapters were not available locally so I just decided not to wait and went ahead with HA fitting.
 I was very careful though to place the legs in their correct respective positions and not just to poke them.
 I think it was worth the effort though unless the audiophile placebo is taking me over 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

As I suggested, if you are 100% sure these are the opamps for you, then you would remove the Dip socket and install the TO-99 in a adapter straight to the PCB. Soldering those would be a snap.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am guessing it means that HA version goes through tighter quality control measures. Is that so?_

 

don't bother, he made that up...read the datasheet and the link from diyaudio I posted in the previous pages, a National engineer says that all measurements are IDENTICAL between NA/HA.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am guessing it means that HA version goes through tighter quality control measures. Is that so?_

 

Yes, they are usually the top of the line for whatever chip part line.
 You can get TO-99 version of most audio opamps. They are also less suceptible to interference from EMI/RFI.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_don't bother, he made that up...read the datasheet and the link from diyaudio I posted in the previous pages, a National engineer says that all measurements are IDENTICAL between NA/HA._

 

Yes and these chips show the same measurments and spec sheets as the LM4562NA. BTW, the guy is a EX-National engineer well know on DIYaudio. If your going to post information make sure it is correct.


----------



## leeperry

well whatever, he used to be an engineer there..he said that the metal packages sound better, and several ppl have confirmed that they indeed do! including fzman & me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if National was lazy and put the same specs for 4562/49720/49860 is another story altogether....the point is that most everyone will agree that 49720HA is where the money is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was looking for other TO99 op-amps, but couldn't locate much : TO-99 opamps - Google Search

 anyway, these sound out of this world...my upgraditis hunger is over, for now


----------



## ROBSCIX

I never said anything about their sound quality. -Try reading before you start trolling.
 The point was they are considered high spec devices. Usually refered to as Mil Spec.
 Two device can measure the same but still have different tolerances and suceptibity to noise either EFI/RFI. This is part of the reason they are in metal cans.


----------



## Cynips

Just got my free 49720NA samples in the mail today. Placed my order on the 6th, so that's pretty fast if you ask me. We'll see when I can manage to make some time for switching them out for testing.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I never said anything about their sound quality. -Try reading before you start trolling.
 The point was they are considered high spec devices. Usually refered to as Mil Spec.
 Two device can measure the same but still have different tolerances and suceptibity to noise either EFI/RFI. This is part of the reason they are in metal cans._

 

then my simple question to you is : where does it say that the TO99 49720 measures any different from the DIP8/SOIC8? does it say ANYWHERE that it's indeed "mil spec"? don't bother searching, it simply isn't the case.

 these are metal cans coz TO99 is metal cased to begin w/....the added interference shielding is the icing on the cake, turning a great chip into a stellar one.......and it renders the STX simply astonishing


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is not the fact they measure any different it is the fact they are less susceptible to interference. There are usually other factors for mil spec also. TO-99 packages are usually refered to as Mil Spec opamps. Sometimes companys will have yet a higher version such as TO-99 with gold leads etc. 
 LM4562 and LME49720 opamps measure the same, right? -Yet you say they sound different why is that?
 You also say the TO-99 version sound better then the chip version, why? -they measure the same, you said the spec sheets are exact. -Yet there is something better about the TO-99, that is what you have been saying?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Here check these out:





 Standard Mil-spec opamps wil gold leads.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my free 49720NA samples in the mail today. Placed my order on the 6th, so that's pretty fast if you ask me. We'll see when I can manage to make some time for switching them out for testing._

 

Remove the shield, use a small knife or screwdrive to lift on one end then the other until they are free. If you loft one end too mcuh you will bend the leads. Look on the chip there is a indent or dot ont he one end. That goes in the direction of the same indent on the DIP socket. Be 100% sure the orientation is correct, if not you will usually blow the opamp and possibly damage the card as soon as power is applied.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Remove the shield, use a small knife or screwdrive to lift on one end then the other until they are free. If you loft one end too mcuh you will bend the leads. Look on the chip there is a indent or dot ont he one end. That goes in the direction of the same indent on the DIP socket. Be 100% sure the orientation is correct, if not you will usually blow the opamp and possibly damage the card as soon as power is applied._

 

Ok, thanks for the advice. Sounds pretty straightforward once you know what to look for.

 Currently listening to maudlin of the Well's latest free web release in the 24-bit FLAC quality. Amazing what a good quality recording can do for music. I just want to familiarize myself a bit more with this piece before I do the swap.


----------



## leeperry

I switched to 49720NA first before ever using the card, and it sounded really bad....you'd be better off letting the card burn in for a few days before doing the swap IMHO.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I switched to 49720NA first before ever using the card, and it sounded really bad....you'd be better off letting the card burn in for a few days before doing the swap IMHO._

 

Well, I got my card even before you did, so I think it's burned in by now


----------



## leeperry

hah, that's what I thought...so I'm not sure of what you meant by "I just want to familiarize myself a bit more with this piece"


----------



## Cynips

Oh, I was referring to the piece of music, so I am well familiar with it when I compare the different opamps.


----------



## leeperry

JRC2114D>LME49720NA is night and day, you won't be falling for placebo...I can tell you that


----------



## mtan002

Can someone point me the way to get some LME49720. Thanks.


----------



## leeperry

click on samples on LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

 BTW, it seems that this chip gives very clear trebles because of its very high slew rate...all the usual lousy chips(2068/5532) give 6 or 8V when the 49720 gives 20!

 I wonder if any other chip could yield even lower THD? I've seen some OPA chips w/ 0.000022%, but these were not op-amps.....and it's even rarer in TO99 apparently.


----------



## genclaymore

I dont have HA's but I trying out 3xLME49720NA's just now. Just got done putting them in and taking out my fav of 3xOPA2277PA's. So far I liking this combo better. Gonna try it like this for a couple of days.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_click on samples on LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

 BTW, it seems that this chip gives very clear trebles because of its very high slew rate...all the usual lousy chips(2068/5532) give 6 or 8V when the 49720 gives 20!

 I wonder if any other chip could yield even lower THD? I've seen some OPA chips w/ 0.000022%, but these were not op-amps.....and it's even rarer in TO99 apparently._

 

Slew rate doesn't quite relate to "clear Treble" as your suggesting. Either of those "lousy" opamps you suggested has enough slew rate to handle full 20Khz sine wave within an acceptable output swing.
 You cannot say, "wow, high slew rate great treble" doesn't quite work that way.

 To also note, without understanding what a high and low slew rate is you cannot judge just by looking at a simple value. There are many opamps with much higher slew rates the the LME49720, do you think they have better treble response? -No....it doesn't work that way. 

 The TPA6120A2 amplifier chip has a slewrate of 1300 V/uS.... -That's your headphone amplifier chip. 

 The OPA627 has a slewrate of 55 V/uS and the 637 has a slew rate of 135 V/uS!


----------



## leeperry

well strangely enough some links on google back up my finding : http://www.icaen.uiowa.edu/~bme080/l...wRateNotes.pdf

Opamp and Capacitor Upgrades, PART-1

  Quote:


 "Speed" is important to sonic transparency — specified as Slew Rate, in Volts per microsecond or V/m S 
 

I'm not saying that speed is the only important factor(and it prolly isn't!), but these 49720HA sound really impressive! I read good feedback on the THS4032(100V slew rate), I'm expecting some samples...a friend of mine will put them on browndog adapters for me, maybe I'll have a go at it when I'll be bored ^^


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, well strangely enough you can find all kinds of twists and incorrect turns on simple information. 
 Slew rate is important but as I said fast Slew rate does not just equate to "clear Trebles" as you were suggesting. The LME49720 has a slew rate of about 20V/uS so if that give your the clear trebles the LME has what would a slewrate of 150, or 1300 sound like? -As I said it does not work like that.
 There are many opamps that are considered to have amazing high range and clarity yet are well below 20V/uS.

 THS4032's are well regarded for I/V and.. well buffer also. They are recommended a great deal BUT given the speed of the opamp you can get into trouble just slapping them into a circuit without some knowledge about opamps. 
 Especially some know how on how to stabalize them in a circuit. 

 They may be too fast without some type of compensation and you will end up with a opamp that oscillates...which is bad. Considering this opamp was NOT designed for direct audio work they are designed for communication applications such as fibre optic amplifiers and receivers.


----------



## leeperry

well, I read that the 4032 were stable on a Prodigy HD2 for what it's worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but anyway, the 49720HA sound out of this world...I don't think I'll bother any further w/ rolling op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if that was for the 49720NA, I would have prolly continued, coz their low end bass response simply lacks..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Very possible, I am just saying fast opamps can be quite unstable in a circuit especially where sockets or adapters are used. Also, oscillation in a opamp can be very hard to detect.


----------



## leeperry

it was checked w/ an oscilloscope and stuff : AUDIOTRAK - User Community

 but right when I had the STX, I didn't try the stock op-amps and instantly put the 49720NA...and the sound was indeed really strange, like constantly drifting and unstable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .....had to burn-in the card w/ the stock op-amps for a little while before I could put them back on.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, Did you read the entire thread- the guy also soldered a cap on the adapter to help keep it stable.
 Not to mention we are talking about two different cards with two different circuits.
 With high speed chips there is always a concern about oscialltion in the circuit. Adapters and sockets don't help much either.
 Your card do as you will.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_JRC2114D>LME49720NA is night and day, you won't be falling for placebo...I can tell you that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well, I find it difficult to put into words, but I find the 49720NA to be more lush, with a clearer, more detailed presence, but also more fluffy in a negative way - like everything is a bit hollow. With the stock 2114 everything seemed to lack a bit of air, a warm signature - almost veiled, but on the other hand I think the overall sound was more pulled together, with more substance so to speak.
 Overall, I think I prefer the 49720's paired with my DT150's as the combination seem to enhance treble for me.

 I could be subject to placebo or just plain delusion, so I'll switch back to stock tonight or tomorrow to see if my memory serves me right.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, I find it difficult to put into words, but I find the 49720NA to be more lush, with a clearer, more detailed presence, but also more fluffy in a negative way - like everything is a bit hollow. With the stock 2114 everything seemed to lack a bit of air, a warm signature - almost veiled, but on the other hand I think the overall sound was more pulled together, with more substance so to speak.
 Overall, I think I prefer the 49720's paired with my DT150's as the combination seem to enhance treble for me._

 

well, the 49720NA is flawed, but still very "sexy"...try the HA when you have time, and let the NA burn in for a few days as it does seem to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and you may wanna update to the latest drivers from the ST(needs minor .inf modding), I think they sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 49720>2114 downgrade is where it gets ugly, I tried it........for 10 mins


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, the 49720NA is flawed, but still very "sexy"...try the HA when you have time, and let the NA burn in for a few days as it does seem to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and you may wanna update to the latest drivers from the ST(needs minor .inf modding), I think they sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 49720>2114 downgrade is where it gets ugly, I tried it........for 10 mins 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yeah, thought about the burn-in issue too, remembering your initial problems with them.

 And actually, I already ordered the 49720HA


----------



## leeperry

good choice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've asked several EE friends and bending TO99 to DIP8 is perfectly fine...and actually prefered over pesky adapters that will only worsen the signal quality.

 BTW, w/ SineGen you can't hear anything >15KHz? I can clearly hear hissing up to 17.5Khz roughly, but maybe it's aliasing


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, w/ SineGen you can't hear anything >15KHz? I can clearly hear hissing up to 17.5Khz roughly, but maybe it's aliasing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It was an online test where you played mp3 samples. I could clearly hear the 15kHz tone but not the 16kHz, so maybe I can hear above 15 but it seemed my hearing was gone at 16 for all practical purposes. I'll download and try SineGen though, but I AM 45 and have been to my share of loud concerts over the years.

 Thanks for the info on attaching the TO99, I was thinking that bending should be fine as long as I don't go remove and reattach every other day!


----------



## leeperry

the only accurate way is through an audiogram at the doctor's I think, as even if you manage to bypass KMixer you could still be hearing aliasing from the soundcard DAC/IC.

 but that distortion test became a lot easier for me w/ the 49720 on the STX than w/ any other soundcard I had in the past : Audibility Of Distortion


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_good choice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've asked several EE friends and bending TO99 to DIP8 is perfectly fine...and actually prefered over pesky adapters that will only worsen the signal quality.

 BTW, w/ SineGen you can't hear anything >15KHz? I can clearly hear hissing up to 17.5Khz roughly, but maybe it's aliasing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well I would say that is a opinion. Many on this site have advanced education in electronics and I doubt anybody with half a idea about electronics would tell you this is the "prefered" way. There is just too many points for failure. You can do this for quick testing and prototyping, but if your considering keep these in your card you might want to consider something a bit more sturdy with solid reliable connections. 

 If you worried about the adapter hurting the signal quality what about leaving the leads all out and exposed can also worsen the signal quality.
 Especially if they are just poked into the socket pins, very poor connection.

 If you think about it a bit, you are using a adapter just a very cheap one with a few points of failure. Your using the DIP8 socket to convert TO-99 to Dip8. As was said, you can do it but it is just not the right way.

 To each their own I guess.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, the 49720NA is flawed, but still very "sexy"...try the HA when you have time, and let the NA burn in for a few days as it does seem to help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and you may wanna update to the latest drivers from the ST(needs minor .inf modding), I think they sound better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 49720>2114 downgrade is where it gets ugly, I tried it........for 10 mins 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You modded the INF's of the ST drivers to work with the STX?
 Did you test it out and come to the conclusion they sound better?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Since I'm in kiwiland thus don't really have an .edu address (academic institutions use "ac.nz" suffix here), if some person could very kindly ship me some "samples" (3+ of them preferably) of the LME49720 to kiwiland. I'll pay for shipping of course. Please PM me if interested as I would love some as they are a tad expensive to buy them


----------



## ROBSCIX

Do you have a business email? -Just anything other then say Hotmail...etc.


----------



## gurubhai

tested the 2xOPA2277 - they sound nice, good bass and highs but the soundstage has really shrunken compared to 49720s.
 Not good for my cans, which already don't have a big soundstage to boast of...


----------



## leeperry

*@chinesekiwi:* you can pay for shipping if you don't have an .edu address...I paid US $15 for 3x49720HA

*@gurubhai:* yes, SS is where the 49720 shine...note that you can angle your headphones drivers to increase it as well


----------



## gurubhai

trying the 2xOPA2107 now - beautiful bass,good soundstage( though not as wide as 49720 , ) very detailed and possibly the best imaging yet.

 finally some worthy competition for 49720HA. Will let these burn for few days and then compare them with the 49720HAs


----------



## leeperry

nice find! and I see TI will also send free samples for the DIP8 OPA2107...I know there's always something BETTER out there, but honestly the 49720HA leave me speechless, they simply sound too good to be true 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 super huge SS, super clean trebles, very fast and clearly audible low end bass....I'm thinking about buying a bunch of them to have my own stock in case they ever decided to discontinue it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think only TO99 parts could compete w/ the 49720HA...DIP8 doesn't cut it.


----------



## gurubhai

^^ hehe I didn't really find them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 shahrose, s2kphile & others have tried it & found it to be comparable to 49720s.
 It really depends on the kind of setup you have and the music that one prefers.

 Both offer different pros & cons over each other.


----------



## leeperry

if you can let them burn in for a few days...and let us know if they're worth the trouble compared to the 49720HA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 again, I don't see how one's could improve over these MONSTERS, but you never know


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you can let them burn in for a few days...and let us know if they're worth the trouble compared to the 49720HA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 again, I don't see how one's could improve over these MONSTERS, but you never know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

It depends on what your idea of "improvement" is. The OPA2107 offer a flatter lower midrange/bass response, better imaging, a faster sound (without being dry) with a lot of PRAT, but at the cost of being bright and closed in compared to the LME49720. It's all about synergy. For example, I found the 2107's played nicely with the HD650s, an inherently laid back headphone that benefits from some speed and sparkle.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on what your idea of "improvement" is. The OPA2107 offer a flatter lower midrange/bass response, better imaging, a faster sound (without being dry) with a lot of PRAT, but at the cost of being bright and closed in compared to the LME49720. It's all about synergy. For example, I found the 2107's played nicely with the HD650s, an inherently laid back headphone that benefits from some speed and sparkle._

 

mmm..interesting..

 Someone must try OPA2107 and LME49720 combos!!!
 (e.g. 2xOPA2107 (buffer) + LME49720 or 2xLME4920 + OPA2107 (buffer))
 Also Shahrose, what do you mean by 'lower' bass response? 'lower' as in more deep bass or lower in quantity?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on what your idea of "improvement" is. The OPA2107 offer a flatter lower midrange/bass response, better imaging, a faster sound (without being dry) with a lot of PRAT, but at the cost of being bright and closed in compared to the LME49720. It's all about synergy. For example, I found the 2107's played nicely with the HD650s, an inherently laid back headphone that benefits from some speed and sparkle._

 

but did you hear the 49720HA? they're a major improvement over NA...the low end bass is clearly audible and the SS even wider and clearer.

 anyway, I'm done rolling op-amps at this point(never say never 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)....I'm the worst kind of whiner when it comes to A/V stuff, all I'm craving for at this point is bit-matched drivers. that's all!

 at the end of the month I'll grab a ST, maybe the clock improvement would be audible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 BTW, your username means "pink cat" in french...thought you'd like to know


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mmm..interesting..

 Someone must try OPA2107 and LME49720 combos!!!
 (e.g. 2xOPA2107 (buffer) + LME49720 or 2xLME4920 + OPA2107 (buffer))
 Also Shahrose, what do you mean by 'lower' bass response? 'lower' as in more deep bass or lower in quantity?_

 

I mentioned the OPA2107's as upgrade modules in my review of the STX.
 OPA2107's have always been considered one of the high grade audio opamps.

 They are expensive IIRC, if you have to buy them.
 I think they would make better I/V then single end buffer.

 Using these for I/V and another for buffer may be the way to go. Also using 3X these may also be the way to go from some...
 Just depends on what type of sound you like.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_if you can let them burn in for a few days...and let us know if they're worth the trouble compared to the 49720HA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 again, I don't see how one's could improve over these MONSTERS, but you never know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I don't think your going to get improvement in the sense of measurments etc.
 Consider the measurments put fourth by the 2114's very impressive.
 However, many opamps can be used that easily provide "better" sound quality then stock as we all know.

 Everybody has a different idea of what good sound is... This is usually why people use different opamps. Units you may find great with clarity details etc may just sound cold and stereile to other people.

 The best way to find out what sound the best to you is to test...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on what your idea of "improvement" is. The OPA2107 offer a flatter lower midrange/bass response, better imaging, a faster sound (without being dry) with a lot of PRAT, but at the cost of being bright and closed in compared to the LME49720. It's all about synergy. For example, I found the 2107's played nicely with the HD650s, an inherently laid back headphone that benefits from some speed and sparkle._

 

The OPA2107's are great opamps. I htought we talked about these untis awhile back. I also though they were mentioned in the thread as a good unit for people to test out. I know I mentioned them in the original review of the STX as possible upgrade modules.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It depends on what your idea of "improvement" is. The OPA2107 offer a flatter lower midrange/bass response,* better imaging, a faster sound (without being dry) with a lot of PRAT*, but at the cost of being bright and closed in compared to the LME49720. It's all about synergy. For example, I found the 2107's played nicely with the HD650s, an inherently laid back headphone that benefits from some *speed and sparkle*._

 

thats what I am really loving about this setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its certainly a fun sound, may be not as relaxing as 49720 but enjoyable still.


----------



## leeperry

so the 49720 are relaxing now? I find them merciless and as transparent as could possibly get...they're known to be colorless, where a 5532/2214 would be adding a nitty gritty "tube"-like signature.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mmm..interesting..

 Someone must try OPA2107 and LME49720 combos!!!
 (e.g. 2xOPA2107 (buffer) + LME49720 or 2xLME4920 + OPA2107 (buffer))
 Also Shahrose, what do you mean by 'lower' bass response? 'lower' as in more deep bass or lower in quantity?_

 

I did try all possible combinations of the two opamps in both buffer and I/V. YMMV, but I remember the I/V position made a much more significant difference in sound than the buffer. Thus, whichever opamps you have in the I/V positions will imbue their sound predominantly and be colored slightly by the buffer.

 BTW, I did not mean lower bass. I meant that the lower midrange and the bass regions are flatter (without peaks) and are better controlled in general. Quantity-wise, the 2107's may have a bit more bass, but it's not a big difference. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but did you hear the 49720HA? they're a major improvement over NA...the low end bass is clearly audible and the SS even wider and clearer.
 BTW, your username means "pink cat" in french...thought you'd like to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I haven't heard the HA yet. I'll try them out when I get some more time on my hands.

 Pink cat eh? A far cry from its original meaning "King of the Day" (in my mother tongue) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The OPA2107's are great opamps. I htought we talked about these untis awhile back. I know I mentioned them in the original review of the STX as possible upgrade modules.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yep, I tested them out a few months ago on your recommendation.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mentioned the OPA2107's as upgrade modules in my review of the STX.
 OPA2107's have always been considered one of the high grade audio opamps.

 They are expensive IIRC, if you have to buy them.
 I think they would make better I/V then single end buffer.

 Using these for I/V and another for buffer may be the way to go. Also using 3X these may also be the way to go from some...
 Just depends on what type of sound you like._

 

Care to describe those combinations and how they sound?


----------



## Bojamijams

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5779087

 Has anyone tried the amps the user posted in there? I know 1364 was tried by Shahrose and ultimately wasn't his final choice, but that one is two steps behind the others in this users experience. Anyone tried the LT1469


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5779087

 Has anyone tried the amps the user posted in there? I know 1364 was tried by Shahrose and ultimately wasn't his final choice, but that one is two steps behind the others in this users experience. Anyone tried the LT1469_

 

Interesting. I might check those out. I've only tried the LME49860 and LT1364 from that list.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, w/ SineGen you can't hear anything >15KHz? I can clearly hear hissing up to 17.5Khz roughly, but maybe it's aliasing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I didn't get SineGen to work (some weird problem I couldn't find a quick solution to), but found another app called NCH Tone Generator. If I do a sine sweep I can only confirm that I lose track of the signal just above 15kHz.
 More interesting, though, was how I noticed peaks and valleys in the frequency response on my system. It's very similar comparing the 49720NA and the stock 2114, with both displaying a minimum at about 10kHz. However, while stock sounds relatively low at 9kHz, the 49720's have a peak right there!

 Be that as it may, I much prefer the 49720NA over stock. Switching back and forth just confirmed my initial impressions: although stock in a way sounds more held together it is more like it's held back rather than controlled. The 49720 opens up the sound stage, making it more natural sounding (to my ears in my set up of course).
 In a way, everything sounds broader and more "fluffy" which is a good thing for treble and mid-range, but sort of an undesired quality when it comes to bass response. However, to me this is a minor flaw - maybe because my DT 150's have no problems reproducing bass anyway. The sparkly quality of the treble with the 49720NA's makes it more musical, and even dynamics such as the punch of a snare drum seem slightly improved (I just love that 24-bit FLAC version of maudlin of the Well's new album). Will be interesting to try out the 49720HA's once they arrive (next week I believe).


----------



## leeperry

yeah, this soundcard has completely spoiled me...I can't watch movies anymore, I'm too busy putting all my music through this PRAT machine all over again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the manual samplerate annoys me anyway, switching 44.1>48>96 all the time is bugging the hell out of me...44.1 it is then!


----------



## perryoops

Hi guys,
 I just bought this great Xonar STX couple of weeks ago and I try to play with Media Monkey, (also like Foobar2000 too, but for the interface mm is better). Please help me with these.
 1. How can I bypass kmixer or other program that might degrade sound quality (is it really working?)
 2. I've install ASIO_all(dll) driver, and figure out that this Xonar STX also has its own ASIO driver, which one is better....anyone try out?
 3. For ASIO Output setting, there are many options you can select such as Thread=?, quality=? gapless=?..........I don't have clue for all these......how can I set it up?

 Thanks in advance


----------



## taso89

There's no advantage to using ASIO4ALL (it's for people who don't have ASIO support on their sound cards), just use the Essence ASIO. As for the other options, maybe set quality to highest? Though you shouldn't really have to change anything. If you're using ASIO you're already bypassing kmixer.


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and the manual samplerate annoys me anyway, switching 44.1>48>96 all the time is bugging the hell out of me...44.1 it is then![/IMG]_

 

I can't hear any difference between them so 192 khz it is for me.


----------



## perryoops

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There's no advantage to using ASIO4ALL (it's for people who don't have ASIO support on their sound cards), just use the Essence ASIO. As for the other options, maybe set quality to highest? Though you shouldn't really have to change anything. If you're using ASIO you're already bypassing kmixer._

 

OH...Thanks for the quick advice,

 Do you play that with Media Monkey as well? How can I check what sample rates are they currently playing? b/c what I always see is 44.1....

 --There is a small play icon on your taskbar for ASIO, where you can set the buffer size and else...........how can I set it correctly

 thanks


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perryoops* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys,
 I just bought this great Xonar STX couple of weeks ago and I try to play with Media Monkey, (also like Foobar2000 too, but for the interface mm is better). Please help me with these.
 1. How can I bypass kmixer or other program that might degrade sound quality (is it really working?)
 2. I've install ASIO_all(dll) driver, and figure out that this Xonar STX also has its own ASIO driver, which one is better....anyone try out?
 3. For ASIO Output setting, there are many options you can select such as Thread=?, quality=? gapless=?..........I don't have clue for all these......how can I set it up?

 Thanks in advance
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









_

 

The Essence STX has native ASIO drivers. ASIO4ALL is more for cards without native drivers allowing them to use ASIO.
 Quick answer is use the native driver for the STX ASIO.
 Enjoy.


----------



## leeperry

these op-amps look somewhat familiar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://image155.poco.cn/mypoco/mypho...788564_000.jpg


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_these op-amps look somewhat familiar 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://image155.poco.cn/mypoco/mypho...788564_000.jpg_

 

Sorry no, they are NOT the same ones you are using.

 These are single channel versions.


----------



## leeperry

don't be so sorry, why so serious? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yeah I read that these are the 49710HA on the manufacturer's forum, these are the single versions of the 49720HA...still that ex-National employee said that more and more external gear would be using the metal versions.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, I know all about them. Thx. 
 In case you haven't figured it out, these chips are NOT new. The LM4562/LME497X series has been discusseed in great length in many fourms in relation to audio. 
 I am not sure how a ex-National employee would know what other companies are going to be using in their products.


----------



## leeperry

I never said that they were new...it's funny how you always feel like you have to prove that you know better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm merely repeating audioman54 words from february 2009 : diyAudio Forums - National opamp inflation - Page 3

 but thanks for showing me the light and always prove me wrong Mr DutchMaster


----------



## ROBSCIX

This is a forum, If you post wrong information somebody will correct you. Isn't this way you come here to learn and discuss audio?
 If you read the post, I was not correcting you just giving you further information on the topic.

 As for the "Mr. DutchMaster", I am not Dutch.... Nor do I live anywhere near Europe.
 You could have simply verified your incorrect information and would have saved you from putting your foot in your mouth yet again....MMM..foot!
 Now, perhaps you can give the trolling a break and get back to audio?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Back to the STX and opamps:

 There are a couple issue with the LME49721's. They are single channel and TO-99. They require a special adapter to be used properly. Further, this adapters cannot be found anywhere it would seem. -Atleast nowhere I have seen and I have looked for these adapters for many other units. 
 You could attempt to jam the various leads into the DIp8 socket but that is many points of faliure. Aside from this they are basically useless for the DIY soundcard opamp swapper unless you have a line on these adapters.

 You could use a combination of commonly available adapters but these multiple layers can de-stabalize the opamps considering their speed and also bad for parasitic capacitance. The idea is generally frowned upon by technicians.


----------



## leeperry

I said they looked "somewhat familiar"...where do you see the need to correct me exactly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes, they're more or less the same op-amp basically...single/dual versions LME497x0HA in metal case, that's all.

 I value the informations from an ex-National engineer that gives free valuables advices more than from a web reviewer that only praises products....in order to get more freebies from the manufacturers? I hope Asus pays you back for all your hard work, coz you really do deserve it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I hope you're preparing a fantastic paper for the ST review, and don't talk of any of the bad sides(shody drivers that resample if you don't select the right samplerate manually and require 3 resident apps, and all the cons xbitlabs.com has been mentioning like the noise level problem at 44.1 kHz or the sound being clearer on the headphones output : Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review (page 5) - X-bit labs )

 reviews that look like press releases are meaningless... even though the STX is truly astonishing, it still lacks in some departments


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a couple issue with the LME49721's. They are single channel and TO-99. [..]
 You could attempt to jam the various leads into the DIp8 socket but that is many points of faliure._

 

oh yes, bending a SOIC8 49721 to DIP8 will prove to be somewhat difficult indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




LME49721 - High Performance, High Fidelity Rail-to-Rail Input/Output Audio Operational Amplifier

 sorry for correcting you


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I said they looked "somewhat familiar"...where do you see the need to correct me exactly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes, they're more or less the same op-amp basically...single/dual versions LME497x0HA in metal case, that's all.

 I value the informations from an ex-National engineer that gives free valuables advices more than from a web reviewer that only praises products....in order to get more freebies from the manufacturers? I hope Asus pays you back for all your hard work, coz you really do deserve it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I hope you're preparing a fantastic paper for the ST review, and don't talk of any of the bad sides(shody drivers that resample if you don't select the right samplerate manually and require 3 resident apps, and all the cons xbitlabs.com has been mentioning like the noise level problem at 44.1 kHz or the sound being clearer on the headphones output : Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review (page 5) - X-bit labs )

 reviews that look like press releases are meaningless... even though the STX is truly astonishing, it still lacks in some departments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes Lee start trolling again.
 BTW, if you want to start correct typos...your going to be a busy person.
 Why don't you give the trolling a rest and try contributing to the forum for a change.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW, if you want to start correct typos...your going to be a busy person.
 Why don't you give the trolling a rest and try contributing to the forum for a change._

 

oh yes, fixing your typos is completely hopeless...otherwise you shall pay me a hefty load of cash 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now I'm the troll? you're the one who keeps saying senseless stuff to begin w/...let's ignore each other anyway...we have nothing to share, you know it all already! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 contribute to the forum? how does that work exactly? you've given all the good advices already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've made +1000 posts of trolling as you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *BUT* if you really try to bend the 49721 to DIP8, please post pix kthx!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yet, still trolling.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/i...ml#post5779087

 Has anyone tried the amps the user posted in there? I know 1364 was tried by Shahrose and ultimately wasn't his final choice, but that one is two steps behind the others in this users experience. Anyone tried the LT1469_

 

Have you tested the LT1496 yet? I have quite a few Linear tech opamps sent by a associate but I don't think I have tested the LM1496. I have really only had limited time to test any of the Linear models. That being said Linear's opamps are highly regarded by many for audio.


----------



## perryoops

The only way to set the sample rate you want to listen (44/48/96/192) is only through Xonar Essence console at the drop-down list, am I right?

 then those Foobar---media monkey,etc...will play accordingly to what you've set in that console??????....there's no way to change required sample rate in the playing program.....is that so?


 My system (Please advise me how to play bit perfect from this???)

 Xonar Essence STX ---->Coax out--->Benchmark DAC1---->Balance out --->Pre


 anyone please advise...

 thanks


----------



## dex85

^ you should use Asio drivers with Foobar and select appropriate sample rate in Essence console and pcm in spdi/f out. that should guarantee bit-perfect playback, sample rate and bit depth in Foobar will be greyed out if you use Asio.
 __________________________________________________

 i swapped 2x JRC2114 for 2x LME49720NA few days ago and am very happy with it. sound came to focus, it is less syrupy and warm. sibilance was reduced to the point where it doesn't bother me at all. it was big issue for me on the stock, same as sometimes unbearable harshness of trumpets. all gone now, trebles are very smooth. width and depth of soundstage has increased and sound is little bit more distant now, which works very well with K701. i'm hearing more details now, overall i would say transparency and clarity of LME49720 is much better over stock.

 bass is not blurred anymore, it is accurate and somehow brought forward. it also have more punch, which is in contrary what others have been saying. maybe its a illusion created by the forwardness and accuracy. still it is more pronounced, i'm more aware of it now.
 transients seem to be a little slower now, maybe it has to do with music having more body now.

 when i look back JRC2114s were doing no justice to K701 in terms of harshness, transparency and music enjoyment. for me LME49720 is a big leap in SQ over stock. i would advise K701 owners to swap stock for something different. in my opinion, JRC2114 has very bad synergy with those phones. it's funny because i had been enjoying them even on stock but i couldn't anymore after i heard LME49720. 

 i'm going to try LM6172IN later in the week but bar has been set very high


----------



## leeperry

yes, I wonder why Asus put these crappy 2114D to begin w/ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 prolly to save money...their product sounding bettter than the competition even w/ them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*@perryoops:* nope, you're right! any other soundcard will automatically set the right hardware samplerate(HT Omega, Creative, M-Audio, etc...) but not the Xonar cards!
 if that annoys you, tell the Asus techsupport(ASUS Online Service), whine on the Asus forums...let them know!

*@ROB6:* I won't be feeding your lame troll attempts anymore...you've been on my ignore list for a long time and will stay there, so don't bother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 _Are you sure you want to add Hadakan to your ignore list?_ YES


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ bass is not blurred anymore, it is accurate and somehow brought forward. it also have more punch, which is in contrary what others have been saying. maybe its a illusion created by the forwardness and accuracy. still it is more pronounced, i'm more aware of it now.
 transients seem to be a little slower now, maybe it has to do with music having more body now._

 

Isn't punch (in bass) and transients related as terms of describing music? Though I have a very different pair of headphones (DT 150) the transient punch of a snare drum (which uses bass, albeit not the lowest range) seems improved with the 2xLME49720NA. Not sure if you understand what I'm getting at...


----------



## Hadakan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*@ROB6:* I won't be feeding your lame troll attempts anymore...you've been on my ignore list for a long time and will stay there, so don't bother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Deluded trolls that think they are being trolled are by far the worst kind. Also, how the hell are you still replying to Rob, if he's been on your ignore list for a long time? You can reply to posts you can't see? What's the reason to have him on your ignore list, when you still look at his posts and reply? What's wrong with you?


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Isn't punch (in bass) and transients related as terms of describing music? Though I have a very different pair of headphones (DT 150) the transient punch of a snare drum (which uses bass, albeit not the lowest range) seems improved with the 2xLME49720NA. Not sure if you understand what I'm getting at..._

 

i'm no expert, but i too think there is a relation between weight(body) and transients. but not in the sense they are the same think. only in sense they affect each other. when i was talking about transients i meant the whole spectrum (especially mids and highs), it seems to me its slower than stock, but with more body. i agree that bass improved in pretty much everything over stock, but i'm not sure if it's faster now (at least with my cans). transient = speed, if i understand it right


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Hadakan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Deluded trolls that think they are being trolled are by far the worst kind. Also, how the hell are you still replying to Rob, if he's been on your ignore list for a long time? You can reply to post you can't see? What's the reason to have on ignore list, when you still look at his posts and reply? What's wrong with you?_

 

I do have to agree here. Leeperry, you sometimes have valuable information to share but half the time you're just being plain immature and blaming others for acts you're committing yourself. Tone it down and get back to discussing the topic without getting side-tracked by all these pointless arguments. This isn't the first time you've been warned about this either.


----------



## maarek99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*@perryoops:* nope, you're right! any other soundcard will automatically set the right hardware samplerate(HT Omega, Creative, M-Audio, etc...)_

 

No they do not. Some cards do but that's only when using ASIO. Why don't you get one of those soundcards then?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *maarek99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No they do not. Some cards do but that's only when using ASIO. Why don't you get one of those soundcards then?_

 

I've had a M-Audio Audiophile USB that never resampled and had an unlocked samplerate(whatever DS/KS/ASIO), M-Audio forbids SRC!

 if I played a 44.1KHz file in DS, then simultaneously a 96Khz in ASIO...foobar would give an error msg "can't set hardware samplerate"...no resampling! same for ALL the Echo Digital/RME/Edirol soundcards!

 and same even for the X-Fi based cards : X-Fi for Music Lovers: Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1 in Detail (page 5) - X-bit labs

  Quote:


 All sounds reproduced through Windows will be converted to the basic sampling frequency you select in the Settings window. *Automatic switching of the frequency is implemented only for ASIO*. 
 

the STX is a great product, now the drivers need to match its hardware excellence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 any serious audio card should have an unlocked samplerate, and forbid SRC on KS/ASIO/WASAPI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 resampling KS/ASIO/WASAPI is unacceptable.






 I realize most n00bs couldn't care less, but if you do...whine to the Asus techsupport at once, your voice shall be heard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This isn't the first time you've been warned about this either._

 

warned? by who? are you my daddy pink cat? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I won't be feeding clueless illiterate trolls anymore, it's a waste of everybody's time...that, we fully agree


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perryoops* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only way to set the sample rate you want to listen (44/48/96/192) is only through Xonar Essence console at the drop-down list, am I right?

 then those Foobar---media monkey,etc...will play accordingly to what you've set in that console??????....there's no way to change required sample rate in the playing program.....is that so?


 My system (Please advise me how to play bit perfect from this???)

 Xonar Essence STX ---->Coax out--->Benchmark DAC1---->Balance out --->Pre


 anyone please advise...

 thanks_

 

Set your program for the bit depth and frequency you want and then set the STX to match. Simple as that.


----------



## perryoops

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Set your program for the bit depth and frequency you want and then set the STX to match. Simple as that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks for all advices,

 In STX console, I always set at 44.1........but for both Media Monkey or Foobar, If I use ASIO, it will always set to 24-bit.....but don't know where to set sample rates individually


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perryoops* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I use ASIO, it will always set to 24-bit.....but don't know where to set sample rates individually_


----------



## perryoops

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Thanks LeePerry,

 I assume that's for Foobar, right?.........have any idea for media monkey??


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perryoops* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks LeePerry,

 I assume that's for Foobar, right?.........have any idea for media monkey??_

 

it's a global setting for the ASIO drivers, it should even remember after rebooting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but you'll still have to manually choose 44.1/48/96 in the drivers depending on whether you're listening to a CD(44.1), a DVD-A(96) or watching a movie(48).

 also for DVD-A, you'll have to choose 24bit in the ASIO drivers....this is getting ridiculous, at least I'm using KS so I only have to worry about the samplerate


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *perryoops* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 .........have any idea for media monkey??_

 

You would have to download and install the output plugin to the Media Monkey Plugin folder.

 After that,

 Edit ->Options-Under Player, select output plugins.

 Select the ASIO output plugin and click configure. This wil give you access to the options avialable for the ASIO output plugin.
 Most players are built in a similar way. Allowing you to configure the plugin in the same place you can select it for output.


----------



## taso89

I finally decided to get an amp for my HD600's (IMO they are a little underpowered with the STX).

 If I use the speaker line-outs, at what volume will they be at "line-level?" At 40% they are already quite loud when I connect my Senns straight to the line-outs, should I keep it at 100% volume to the amp for better SQ or could that damage the amp?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I finally decided to get an amp for my HD600's (IMO they are a little underpowered with the STX).

 If I use the speaker line-outs, at what volume will they be at "line-level?" At 40% they are already quite loud when I connect my Senns straight to the line-outs, should I keep it at 100% volume to the amp for better SQ or could that damage the amp?_

 

I go at 77% master volume to the amp to not stress out the circuitry too much in the Essence STX to my Rockhopper M3. It won't damage the amp at all. It is recommend to send the strongest signal as possible to the amp and then control the volume via the amp with playback volume, windows volume and your player volume at 100%.


----------



## taso89

Indeed, I've read that you want to send the strongest signal and let the amp do the work. Is it a problem that my amp will be doing more of reducing the signal than amplifying it?


----------



## dex85

i tried 2xLM6172IN (A) today. it was an upgrade in transparency over stock, but some of the sibilance and instruments harshness was back compared to 2xLME49720 (B). it also made me realize how wonderful the soundstage of B is, especially the depth is remarkable. also imagining and details is better on B. 

 in combination with K701, B has by far the most enjoyable and relaxing signature. it really turns listening into quite an experience, which i can't say about stock or A. i was mostly listening to blues, jazz, classics, pop where it shines. it sounded little distant with rock or metal. still i listened to Flaw album from start to end and enjoyed it very much. to sum it up, B + K701 makes for great synergy.


----------



## Wartank

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mtan002* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just installed the vista 32 driver for my STX and it seemed to have screwed up the sound app in the system tray. Now when I click on it, the volume bar won't open. 

 Any body with this issue?

 M Tan_

 

I get this problem too, i can only manage to adjust the volume thru my keyboard or thru xonar's control panel. I have had this problem since the card was released. I tried reinstalling vista 32bit a couple of times but it happens every time(although it some how "fixed" itself once). I also tried windows 7 32bit and 64bit its also the same.


----------



## leeperry

right click on it, and set it to Vista SP1 compatiblity mode in windows explorer...could also try whatever other modes are in there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it works on W7 from what I understood, but native W7 drivers are coming soon anyway


----------



## Cynips

Got my LME49720HA's and got some time tonight to install them. Working fine and bass is definitely better now. That fluffy quality of the 49720NA's is gone (seems more neutral even in upper registers) and several words come to mind when trying to describe it: meaty, textured, even dry. Dry being a good thing as I'm under the impression that my cans, being closed, have a tendency towards a somewhat resonating sound - less of this now it seems.

 Listening to a fav album of mine and I'm just hearing there's sub base in the finale passages of this tune 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 never realized that before. Could be that I'm paying closer attention to bass though...

 Further listening and I'm starting to think that that sparkly, fluffy character is gone from the treble too - in a good way since I would describe what I'm hearing as clean, more neutral and straightforward - a very airy and effortless sound.


----------



## leeperry

the bad news is.......you'll end up getting totally hooked to FLAC files in KS/ASIO or WASAPI now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just can't believe how good music sounds on this card w/ these op-amps


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the bad news is.......you'll end up getting totally hooked to FLAC files in KS/ASIO or WASAPI now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, I'm not so sure about that since I'm clearly hearing these differences while listening to good quality mp3's as well.

  Quote:


 I just can't believe how good music sounds on this card w/ these op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

Can't but agree with you about that, though it almost makes me wonder if I'm a victim to placebo. But these differences I'm hearing are too obvious to really worry about that.

 BTW, gotta love that I'm getting these opamps delivered to my door for free in less than a week after ordering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thank you National!


----------



## mtan002

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Wartank* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I get this problem too, i can only manage to adjust the volume thru my keyboard or thru xonar's control panel. I have had this problem since the card was released. I tried reinstalling vista 32bit a couple of times but it happens every time(although it some how "fixed" itself once). I also tried windows 7 32bit and 64bit its also the same.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The resolution is quite simple: go to your msconfig and disable Hsmgr and Cmicnfg DLL at Startup.

 Here it helps resolve your problem.

 Enjoy your music!

 M Tan


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mtan002* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The resolution is quite simple: go to your msconfig and disable Hsmgr and Cmicnfg DLL at Startup._

 

Now, why didn't I think of that!?!


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mtan002* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The resolution is quite simple: go to your msconfig and disable Hsmgr and Cmicnfg DLL at Startup._

 

killing hsmgr.exe & mxmon.exe was a major failure for me on XP SP3...I was getting constant BSOD's in KMPlayer. apparently the Asus drivers rely on them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try your suggestion


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Actually, I'm not so sure about that since I'm clearly hearing these differences while listening to good quality mp3's as well.

 BTW, gotta love that I'm getting these opamps delivered to my door for free in less than a week after ordering 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thank you National!_

 

you got them for free? I had to pay for shipping, US $15 for 3 of them.

 well I meant that these op-amps make you want more more more, 192JS mp3 sounds good....but FLAC in a bit-perfect renderer is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that National engineer wasn't lying when he said that the metal versions were astonishing...I'm still heavily shocked tbh


----------



## Wartank

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *mtan002* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The resolution is quite simple: go to your msconfig and disable Hsmgr and Cmicnfg DLL at Startup.

 Here it helps resolve your problem.

 Enjoy your music!

 M Tan_

 

Thanks buddy it worked!!!!


----------



## gurubhai

^^works for me too, thanks


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you got them for free? I had to pay for shipping, US $15 for 3 of them._

 

I just clicked on the samples link and put my order just as with the NA's. Seem that to Sweden they're being shipped from Germany.


----------



## dex85

how did you guys make them fit in the DIP socket? was it any hard to do so? i've never been known for being handy


----------



## leeperry

look at page 10


----------



## Tez

Just a heads up to leeperry and the others who recommended the 49720HA's. I got some samples from National and put them in last night. Installation was easy following the advice on page 10.

 I was previosuly using the 49720NA's but they just seemed to lack something but these rock! Thanks guys.


----------



## dex85

it looks like even i should be able to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but there was a talk about pins not touching the case of can. what exactly it means? the DIP socket case, pcb or ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, i just ordered HA samples now and had to pay for shipping and handling too since i used my gmail adress.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it looks like even i should be able to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but there was a talk about pins not touching the case of can. what exactly it means? the DIP socket case, pcb or ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

When you press down the HA's the pins get somewhat bent (of course). You should see to it that none of these make contact with the metal casing of the 49720HA itself. Shouldn't be a problem however and there's plenty of space above so it doesn't get in contact with the EMI shield.


----------



## leeperry

the STX metal shield is painted w/ non-conductive paint anyway, and you must trim them as short as possible...if they're higher than the caps, you didn't trim them short enough!
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Tez* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was previosuly using the 49720NA's but they just seemed to lack something but these rock!_

 

yes sir, they certainly do! the NA were indeed lacking..enjoy your new PRAT machine


----------



## dex85

ok, thanks guys. i should receive them in a week. that's going to be a long wait. hard to imagine HA sounds even better than NA, this is going to be fun.


----------



## leeperry

the bass is dull on the NA, it's far more audible on the HA and the trebles are slightly clearer too..and so does the soundstage width


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it looks like even i should be able to do it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but there was a talk about pins not touching the case of can. what exactly it means? the DIP socket case, pcb or ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 btw, i just ordered HA samples now and had to pay for shipping and handling too since i used my gmail adress._

 

"the case of the Can", I am guessing you mean the can of the opamp. Yes, be very carful as usually one of the pins is tied to the TO-99 can. -Pin 8 IIRC. If the can gets forced down or touches another pin you can have a serious problem. 
 Best way to go about this is to use an adapter.


----------



## dex85

i was thinking about adapter but i'm not sure if the emi shield would fit afterwards. lets hope my lame hands will be up to the job


----------



## ROBSCIX

Trouble with the way a few are doing this around here is you leave many points for failure. Pins can come out, get crossed, pushed down, arc'd out...Bad.
 I have heard of doing this for basic tests but after that the opamp is secured and connected properly.
 You don't have to use a adapter but realize that just jamming the pins into a dip 8 socket is very bad for the long term.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You don't have to use a adapter but realize that just jamming the pins into a dip 8 socket is very bad for the long term._

 

Could you elaborate on why it would be bad for the long term?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Could you elaborate on why it would be bad for the long term?_

 

This method is a example of poor workmanship. The leads are exposed. The inputs are very sensitive to noise and any EMI/RFI floating around. 
 I doesn't take very much for them to work loose either. As I said, I can see using this method for quick testing etc. For the long term, I doubt you would find anybody with good knowledge of electronics using this type of method for any length of time.
 Opamps are very sensitive and good physical and electrical connections are very important. Keeping the lead lengths as small as possible is also very important.

 Your card, your opamps....your choice.


----------



## Cynips

Ok, thanks for the input. I'll keep them as is for the moment. If anything goes wrong, I'm pretty much the only one who'll care anyway. If I start hearing strange artifacts I know this could be one source for the problem.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If I start hearing strange artifacts I know this could be one source for the problem._

 

fzman has been running like this for months, except if you like to vigorously shake your computer on a regular basis...you shall be safe 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and to use audio-gd op-amps, you have to use extensions anyway


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, thanks for the input. I'll keep them as is for the moment. If anything goes wrong, I'm pretty much the only one who'll care anyway. If I start hearing strange artifacts I know this could be one source for the problem._

 

As I said, your card, your opamps, your choice.


----------



## gurubhai

trying 2 x OPA2132 now.
 They have excellent bass, wide sounstage & a rich sound with very good instrumental separation.Very enjoyable.

 Since my last post I also tried LME49860 & LT1364 and they sounded a bit thin.
 I also popped up the stock opamps and I think I can safely say that they are gonna stay in the box from now on. They are not bad at all, but IMO LME49720,OPA2107 & OPA2132 are simply much better.


----------



## chinesekiwi

OPA2132 vs. vs. OPA2107 VS. LME49720????

 What opamp's in the buffer?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Putting the LME49720NA in the buffer is the same as leaving the LM4562NA in there. They are the same chips. TO-99 are different I would say.

 2132,2107 are all well regarded audio opamps from Burr-Brown. 2107 being one of their best.


----------



## gurubhai

I am using the headphone out, so I changed only the I/Vs.

 Right now, I am going through the first round of testing. I have selected these three for second round till now.

 I shall be listening to OPA2137, OPA2111 & some opamps of Linear before I start the next phase of testing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am using the headphone out, so I changed only the I/Vs.

 Right now, I am going through the first round of testing. I have selected these three for second round till now.

 I shall be listening to OPA2137, OPA2111 & some opamps of Linear before I start the next phase of testing._

 

Let us know what you find.


----------



## Shahrose

I've been testing the LME49720HA for the past few days and I feel it is an upgrade over the NA version. The improvements are subtle but unmistakable. The soundstage is larger, bass definition is a bit better and the mids are more detailed. Tonal balance remains largely the same with the exception of the treble, which is a bit more pronounced on the HA (metal versions). This may or may not be a good thing, but I preferred the smoother treble of the NA version.

 One important thing to note is that with the few swaps I did of the HA, I noticed that the sound wasn't always constant and required some tinkering with proper seating to get it to sound good. The whole procedure of clipping/bending the pins and forcing them in the DIP-8 slots is messy and potentially damaging to the slots. I definitely second ROBSCIX's opinion that a proper adapter be used to install these. I myself have ordered some adapters and will be using those as a more permanent solution.

 Edit: I forgot to mention a finding that is a bit unnerving. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the HA really get hot under use. In a matter of minutes, they become too hot to touch. So far, this hasn't caused any problems (in terms of sound), but I feel it could affect the life of the card or its reliability.


----------



## leeperry

hehe, I had exactly the same problem the first time I put the NA when the card was brand new unused...the sound was oscillating like a kid whistling through his middle teeth. so the HA are an improvement over NA? good to know


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been testing the LME49720HA for the past few days and I feel it is an upgrade over the NA version. The improvements are subtle but unmistakable. The soundstage is larger and bass definition is a bit better. Tonal balance remains largely the same with the exception of the treble, which is a bit more pronounced on the HA (metal versions). This may or may not be a good thing, but I slightly preferred the smoother treble of the NA version. Either way, I will be keeping the HA installed. _

 

This entire family of opamps have been tested by many in various gear and circuits for quite awhile now. They are all part of the LM4562/LME craze that started a few years ago.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One important thing to note is that with the few swaps I did of the HA, I noticed that the sound wasn't always constant and required some tinkering with proper seating to get it to sound good. The whole procedure of clipping/bending the pins and forcing them in the DIP-8 slots is messy and potentially damaging to the slots. I definitely second ROBSCIX's opinion that a proper adapter be used to install these. I myself have ordered some adapters and will be using those as a more permanent solution._

 

Exactly right, the connections are anythig but stable and such poor connections add many point of failure especially in a environment where temperature is changing.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Edit: I forgot to mention a finding that is a bit unnerving. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the HA really get hot under use. In a matter of minutes, they become too hot to touch. So far, this hasn't caused any problems (in terms of sound), but I feel it could affect the life of the card or its reliability._

 

Any IC will prodice some heat and To-99 will will get hotter then normal chips as the metal can tends to keep heat in.

 Now for them getting too hot, I mentioned this awhile back as just jamming them into the Dip8 slots is very sloppy and can cause instability in the opamps and cause them to oscillate. They will draw way too much current and get very hot. 

 This may be a case of normal heat or may be a case of the opamp malfunctioning. Adapters may stabalize them if they are indeed oscillating.
 You might also want to consider swapping out the sockets on the card for higher quality units.


----------



## Bojamijams

But there is no way to use a TO-99 to DIP-8 adapter AND still be able to use the EMI shield, is there?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Possibly. The adapters aren't that big. I think many here have removed their sheilding anyhow.


----------



## Bojamijams

Eek. I don't like that idea. 

 From just simply looking at all the people that use the FP connections and noticing all the noises that the EMI puts into the wires, I'm very leery against taking that off.


----------



## ROBSCIX

..then leave it installed. As I said the adapters aren't that big at all if you want to go that route.
 Your card, your choice.


----------



## dex85

the thing about that adapter; TO-99 pins are supposed to go inside the DIP8 adapter extension legs and the only part sticking out would be the metal can, right? any pictures with TO-99 op-amps inside would be appreciated.

 i've been looking for that adapter in europe e-shops. no luck so far. it looks like it's a very rare thing, not commonly used.


----------



## Bojamijams

Ah okay.. if it can fit with adapters, then definitely will be doing that


----------



## ROBSCIX

I just tested 3 with adapters for your guys and they allow you to put the sheilding back on and there is no contact with the sheild.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the thing about that adapter; TO-99 pins are supposed to go inside the DIP8 adapter extension legs and the only part sticking out would be the metal can, right? any pictures with TO-99 op-amps inside would be appreciated.

 i've been looking for that adapter in europe e-shops. no luck so far. it looks like it's a very rare thing, not commonly used._

 

These ones are not that hard to find and they are very coomon. The models that are very hard to find are dual TO99 to DIP8.
 Here is a link for the company that makes the To-99 to Dip8 adapters.->LINK
 They do require soldering skills though.


----------



## dex85

you mean soldering skills are required to make that adapter or for TO99 chips when attaching them to adapter? i hope its not the latter.


----------



## Ansh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_These ones are not that hard to find and they are very coomon. The models that are very hard to find are dual TO99 to DIP8.
 Here is a link for the company that makes the To-99 to Dip8 adapters.->LINK
 They do require soldering skills though._

 

Somebody just told me that I don't need to solder a TO-88 to DIP-8 pin a few hours ago?!
 He said that you just need to solder it if you find it loose
 Is it just the problem of this product or all adapters?


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you mean soldering skills are required to make that adapter or for TO99 chips when attaching them to adapter? i hope its not the latter._

 

You need to solder the TO-99 ONTO the Dip8-adapter.. then you can just push the whole thing into the Dip-8 socket on the Essence.

 If you do NOT want to use the adapter, you can just clip the pins on the TO-99 chip and bend them and try and fit them inside the DIP-8 socket. This is not recommended though.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Here is a pic of the adapter






 And with a TO-99 soldered on, 





 I put three into a STX and there is more then enough clearance so you can use the adapter/opamp modules and replace your sheild.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Eek. I don't like that idea. 

 From just simply looking at all the people that use the FP connections and noticing all the noises that the EMI puts into the wires, I'm very leery against taking that off._

 

I suspect, as ROBSCIX said, that the adapter would still allow installation of the EMI shield. If it doesn't though, there is no harm (IME) in removing the shield. I've tried listening with it on and off and I could not notice a difference in noise/interference, though it would depend on your specific case components. I recommend trying both ways to see if you can even hear a difference. The improved ventilation (of the opamps) may be worth more than the minuscule protection gained from the EMI shield.


----------



## Bojamijams

Yeah ROBSCIX is looking into the heating issue on the TO-99 opamps to see if its normal or oscillation induced.. but you're right, a little extra air going around there couldn't hurt

 However he has confirmed that the shield will indeed fit even with adapter, so its just a choice thing now


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ansh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Somebody just told me that I don't need to solder a TO-88 to DIP-8 pin a few hours ago?!
 He said that you just need to solder it if you find it loose
 Is it just the problem of this product or all adapters?_

 

Maybe he are thinking of a socket or something different. Most adapters I have seen that go from one foot print ot another E.g TO-99 to Dip8 -They require soldering.
 The soldering produces solid physical and electrical joints between the opamps and the new pin footprint. There may be some type of adapters that don't require soldering but I have never seen them, or heard of them for that matter.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You need to solder the TO-99 ONTO the Dip8-adapter.. then you can just push the whole thing into the Dip-8 socket on the Essence.

 If you do NOT want to use the adapter, you can just clip the pins on the TO-99 chip and bend them and try and fit them inside the DIP-8 socket. This is not recommended though._

 

i tried to clip the pins but wasn't able to do it. like i said, i'm anything but handy. my soldering skills are nonexistent, so i guess 49720HA will have to stay in the cabinet. at least i didn't have to pay for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 out of curiosity - when soldering TO-99 chip onto that adapter, people cut the pins shorter? they seem to be too long for that purpose.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes I installed thre LME's in browndoag adapters and re-instaleld the sheilding. Ther is enough room. Atleast a few mm between the top of the opamp and the sheild.

 As for the TO-99, yes your trim the pins short so they are just a bit longer then the bottom of the adapter. Atleast that is the way I have always built them.


----------



## taso89

So what's the final verdict on volume settings? I keep the speaker line-outs at 75% in Windows going to my amp, and the Essence Control Panel settings at the default 76% but it still bugs me.. At 100% it seems to have a little more bass and lose dynamic range but I could be wrong.


----------



## leeperry

ok I've just taken out the STX, the 49720HA were not hot AT ALL. I guess having a 25cm fan blowing at 1000rpm in the side door of my case took care of the problem.

 I'm trying it w/ the NA atm, as I will be selling it w/ these....and sound is definitely different, more distant?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok I've just taken out the STX, the 49720HA were not hot AT ALL. I guess having a 25cm fan blowing at 1000rpm in the side door of my case took care of the problem.

 I'm trying it w/ the NA atm, as I will be selling it w/ these....and sound is definitely different, more distant?_

 

If they are oscillating, putting a fan on them or a heatsink will not help as they are malfunctioning. If they are indeed malfunctioning and it is not fixed you will have much larger issues then just hot opamps.


----------



## Shahrose

For now. I have switched back to the LME49720NA for their smoother/refined sound. I feel the HA may have not been performing optimally without adapters, which would explain the harsher treble and hot opamps. I think I got a glimpse of what to expect with a slightly larger soundstage and better defined bass. Will update my impressions once I mount some adapters.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what's the final verdict on volume settings? I keep the speaker line-outs at 75% in Windows going to my amp, and the Essence Control Panel settings at the default 76% but it still bugs me.. At 100% it seems to have a little more bass and lose dynamic range but I could be wrong._

 

More bass, no change on dynamic range tbh.

 My settings:

 Master volume = 77/100 (if you're using ASIO/KS/WASAPI, if you change the master volume in the Control center, it's changing the Windows one as they are one and the same. 77 = not stressing the card too much might can degrade the sound quality over time.)
 Playback volume = 100% in the Asus Essence STX mixer, Foobar2000

 going to amp, which of course I use to control the volume I listen at.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For now. I have switched back to the LME49720NA for their smoother/refined sound. I feel the HA may have not been performing optimally without adapters, which would explain the harsher treble and hot opamps. I think I got a glimpse of what to expect with a slightly larger soundstage and better defined bass. Will update my impressions once I mount some adapters._

 

I will let you know how the testing goes.


----------



## gurubhai

switched to 2xLT1358 now and apparently these are a winner too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Huge soundstage & excellent dynamics.

 Very crisp & detailed .

 Its getting tougher every passing day, so many great opamps too choose from.


----------



## Bojamijams

What are your thoughts on 1358 vs the 49720 HA?


----------



## gurubhai

^^ I haven't heard the HA's for a while,so take my observations with a pinch of salt.

 I think these have even wider soundstage & better transients..

 I shall do a more detailed comparison later.


----------



## leeperry

yes, comparing from memory is a tough call.

 I've got properly burned in HA and NA...the SS is wider on the HA, and the sound is more "HiFi" but the trebles are indeed tamer. but my DT770 phones are bright to begin w/

 I might have a go at the NA again this evening, maybe the added bass from the HA is not really needed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a friend of mine who only listen to classical music on his cd3k keeps telling me that bass is not supposed to be overwhelming AT ALL. what most ppl will call a "lack of bass" would actually be a "normal" amount of bass.

 the HA seems to emphasize on the top mid, and my EQ to kill the outer ear resonances(following this tutorial : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/how...torial-413900/) doesn't really work on the HA...they seem to really tame down the upper spectrum and make the bass heavier.

 OTOH, my 24/96 5.1 lossless SACD rips from DM/Violator sound amazing as it is(using the Logic7 binaural downmix matrix in foobar)...I got three 4562NA/49720NA and HA, I'll play around...again


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_switched to 2xLT1358 now and apparently these are a winner too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Huge soundstage & excellent dynamics.

 Very crisp & detailed .

 Its getting tougher every passing day, so many great opamps too choose from.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There are many great opamps out there. I have a very large collection as I have been working with opamps for many years.
 Some of the better audio opamps cannot be purchased in the DIP8 footprint.
 I just soldered up a whole pile of new test units.

 If you are really handy with a soldering iron, You might also consider installing higher grade Dip8 sockets on the card. 

 To Note, Linear Tech opamps are higly regarded by many who opamps roll.
 I started a opamps thread inteh DIY seciton to hopefully keep allthe impression of the various opamps in one place.


----------



## gurubhai

thanks Rob, but I think I have got enough on my hands with just the DIP8s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and yes I did notice "the opamp thread" -great initiative


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the swapping of the socket can be a bit tricky. Might be something you might wat to consider though.

 As for the Opamp thread, many people ask questions and post opinions and findings about their opamps they have tested but it is scattered and very hard to locate. If we can try and keep it in the same thread it would be a great resource for all of us
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have been working with com great new units and combination and getting great sonic results.


----------



## leeperry

chat rose was right, the trebles are clearer on the NA! the HA are great if you have a bass shy phone I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will run more tests, but the bass is normal...not overwhelming like w/ the HA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ah ******* loudness curves of the human ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* at least they're both properly burned in now, these things change overtime...now they both have 2 weeks of 24/7 use basically.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_chat rose was right, the trebles are clearer on the NA! the HA are great if you have a bass shy phone I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 will run more tests, but the bass is normal...not overwhelming like w/ the HA 





 ah ******* loudness curves of the human ear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 So the Bass is overwhelming on the HA's? 
 Very different opinion then your usual gushing.


----------



## Bojamijams

robbie - six and now chat rose? jeez, I'd love to hear what my version is


----------



## ROBSCIX

What do you expect from a troll?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_robbie - six and now chat rose? jeez, I'd love to hear what my version is _

 

I dunno, gimme some time...I'll try to think of something 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well "chat rose" reads "sharose" in french...not my fault.

 anyway, rolling op-amps is an endless story....and I read someone saying that they all were compromises. that's definitely the case.

 the SS is definitely narrower and the bass much weaker on the NA, but well at least both my NA and HA are fully burned-in now....makes a choice easier to make, I guess


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_robbie - six and now chat rose? jeez, I'd love to hear what my version is _

 

Considering the source is some troll kid, I don't think anybody cares.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So, are you considering moving to the ST or staying with the STX?


----------



## leeperry

so -for those in the know- everyone prefers the HA over the NA?

 the sound is really thin on the NA...I guess I'll need some fresh ears tomorrow morning to make a valid judgment


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_so -for those in the know- everyone prefers the HA over the NA?

 the sound is really thin on the NA...I guess I'll need some fresh ears tomorrow morning to make a valid judgment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Those in the know?
 Like you? -LOL!!
 Have your HA's bent pinned in the socket, overheating and probably oscillating. Wow yes, you are in the know!
 How many opamps have you tested now?
 Didn't you just post the HA's have overwhelming bass etc?
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_will run more tests, but the bass is normal...not overwhelming like w/ the HA 



_


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering the source is some troll kid, I don't think anybody cares.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So, are you considering moving to the ST or staying with the STX?_

 

Considering the move to the ST


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Considering the move to the ST_

 

Ah yes, we spoke on this already.
 Still just going with the stereo unit, No H6 Daughter card?


----------



## Bojamijams

I just have no need for that yet. But I may in the future, which is another reason why I'd like the ST. But.. that future isn't here yet, so I figure as long as I have the option, if the time comes when I need it, then I'll get the H6


----------



## leeperry

indeed, the 49720NA are sterile...the stock op-amps give a more saturated but more bassy sound, but the trebles are much less refined. you can't get it all I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I still rest my case that the stereo is more "muddy" on the STX.


----------



## taso89

I've been looking at the internal Xonar mixer again.. I believe it should be left at the default 76% for L and R channel. There is a good deal of loss in the dynamic range and "punch" if it's set higher. If you push it up to 100% it looks like it's clipping, which you can verify by looking at the EQ visualizer above that.

 Sorry to post on that again but I'm now confident it should be left at the default 76%.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just have no need for that yet. But I may in the future, which is another reason why I'd like the ST. But.. that future isn't here yet, so I figure as long as I have the option, if the time comes when I need it, then I'll get the H6_

 

The H6 DAC expansion board will be available if you want to move to that option.


----------



## Bojamijams

I don't know how you guys can do your Volume at 76 thing. I have to run my volume at no higher then 25 to be able to use my A5's past the 9 o'clock position where the volume pot starts matching better. If I ran it at 75%, I could keep my A5's at lowest level and still hear decent sound coming through.


----------



## taso89

When using powered speakers I use the Windows volume at about 25% too, I'm talking about the default 76% inside the Asus Audio Center Mixer panel.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've been looking at the internal Xonar mixer again.. I believe it should be left at the default 76% for L and R channel. There is a good deal of loss in the dynamic range and "punch" if it's set higher. If you push it up to 100% it looks like it's clipping, which you can verify by looking at the EQ visualizer above that.

 Sorry to post on that again but I'm now confident it should be left at the default 76%._

 

I read it an a review somewhere that default 76% corresponds to Zero dB so yes, it should be left as such.


 Back to opamps, I am really getting to like the sound of LT1358s. Its a shame not many have tried these wonderful opamps.


----------



## dex85

^how about highs compared to 49720NA. is it as smooth or harsher? 

 this op-ams hobby surely can get expensive. it looks innocent in the beginning given the price of the units, but once you start rolling them there is no end to it


----------



## gurubhai

I can't compare them right now but these are definitely not harsh.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Dex, the LME49720NA are the same opamp as the LM4562NA. Which many like but many others find them a bit sterile in the mid range or cold.
 Opamp rolling is all about finding the best combination for you.

 @Gurubhai, Linear tech has many great opamps. They are highly regarded by many for audio use.


----------



## dex85

^yes, i'm aware of LM4562NA=LME49720 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the thing i like about that op-amp is how smooth the trebles are. i'm somewhat susceptible to high frequencies, even in real life when i hear a felt pen, scratching glass or trumpets it's doing me no good. so i like how 49720 smoothen the things up in highs, soundstage is great too, especially the dept.

 but lately i've been noticing that while depth of soundstage makes some songs sound awesome, it makes others sound weird, artificial and unmusical at times. like if some parts of song were pushed too deep into the background, eventuating in unnatural sound. it though it could be bad recordings but then i listened to those recordings with others op-ams and didn't get the unnatural feeling. i was listening to both speakers & headphones so equipment is not be blamed either. i guess every op-amp has its flaws and compromises.

 so i'm all ears for suggestions about great sounding op-amps with smooth trebles


----------



## leeperry

I believe the 49720NA is simply merciless and very faithful. it won't color the sound, like the stock-amps do for instance...these tend to give a 5532-ish sound, very cool for rock!

 I think the stock op-amps are indeed great for mainstream rock music. there's a theory that most albums have gone through hundreds of 5532 at the recording stage, and that it's great to use that same "color" for playback.

 OTOH the 49720 are colorless, so you don't get that nitty gritty "tube" sound....but a very linear and clear upper spectrum instead.

 every op-amp is made of compromises anyway, and the 4562/49720 are some of (if not the most) acclaimed op-amp worldwide. whether another one would personally suit us better is another story altogether, but the 49720 is great if you want an uber-analytical sound(many ppl find it TOO analytical, and they're prolly right..)

 LT also has a free samples program, but I can't seem to find an op-amp there w/ the same ultra low THD rates as the 49720...


----------



## dex85

i don't mind the colorless presentation, i actually prefer it. i also like the amount of details that lme49720 display. but sometimes it sounds unnatural due to soundstage depth positioning. sometimes it bury certain parts of the song deeper then they actually supposed to be. but then who am i to tell where they are supposed to be?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still i think that ss depth positioning could be better, my 2 cents


----------



## leeperry

well, I've tried to look up on google which LT op-amp could "beat" the 49720...especially in the THD+N distortion department(that's what makes the 49720 so transparent), and I haven't found much clues.

 some ppl like to roll op-amps on a regular basis, having tons of different models, and doing endless blablabla on forums about the pros/cons of each of them....I'm simply looking for a 49720-killer, both in actual measurements(distortion, crossfeed, snr) and in subjective judgments. I haven't found much clues, the 49720 is still the op-amp to kill...apparently.

 now if you're luckier than me(LT and TI seem to be afraid of giving the THD+N rates), let us know...I'll also order some samples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked TI for some SOIC8 samples 12bass recommended me, but I never received them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 apparently the burson sound better than the 49720, but their distortion is a lot higher too..

 mosts recordings appear to have been engineered to be played through 5532, at least many ppl back up this theory.


----------



## genclaymore

Well my op-amp rolling let me find better op-amp combo's i wouldnt want to just look at specs and what not of a op-amp and assume this and that. I rather take the hands on and try diffent ones together.

 So far I found a bunch of diffent combos I tried that I liked,


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^yes, i'm aware of LM4562NA=LME49720 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the thing i like about that op-amp is how smooth the trebles are. i'm somewhat susceptible to high frequencies, even in real life when i hear a felt pen, scratching glass or trumpets it's doing me no good. so i like how 49720 smoothen the things up in highs, soundstage is great too, especially the dept.

 but lately i've been noticing that while depth of soundstage makes some songs sound awesome, it makes others sound weird, artificial and unmusical at times. like if some parts of song were pushed too deep into the background, eventuating in unnatural sound. it though it could be bad recordings but then i listened to those recordings with others op-ams and didn't get the unnatural feeling. i was listening to both speakers & headphones so equipment is not be blamed either. i guess every op-amp has its flaws and compromises.

 so i'm all ears for suggestions about great sounding op-amps with smooth trebles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If your using three of the same opamps this may be your trouble. If your use the same opamp in the buffer as you do in the I/V you can compound the negative aspect fo the opamp. 
 If you like the sound of the LM4562/LME49720 use it in the I/V but try testing out some new models for the buffer.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, I've tried to look up on google which LT op-amp could "beat" the 49720...especially in the THD+N distortion department(that's what makes the 49720 so transparent), and I haven't found much clues.

 some ppl like to roll op-amps on a regular basis, having tons of different models, and doing endless blablabla on forums about the pros/cons of each of them....I'm simply looking for a 49720-killer, both in actual measurements(distortion, crossfeed, snr) and in subjective judgments. I haven't found much clues, the 49720 is still the op-amp to kill...apparently.

 now if you're luckier than me(LT and TI seem to be afraid of giving the THD+N rates), let us know...I'll also order some samples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I asked TI for some SOIC8 samples 12bass recommended me, but I never received them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 apparently the burson sound better than the 49720, but their distortion is a lot higher too..

 mosts recordings appear to have been engineered to be played through 5532, at least many ppl back up this theory._

 

Do not rely to heavily on spec or individual measurements such as THD/THD+N. Many oapmps will give excellent measurements and values but they sound cold, sterile and just unmusical. On the flip side, many opamps have lesser specifications but will sound much better then the others with the higher specs. You cannot look at a spec sheet and jugde how a opamp will sound. You have to use your ears in the end.

 You can get high grade tube gear with very high THD(+N) values in comparison to some of these newer opamps but the tube gear would just kill them for sound quality in comparison. Measurement are great for engineers looking to match components to their circuit and are useful to some extent for the opamp roller but if you don't understand the values and how they interact with each other, they tell you nothing.

 If you rinterested in LT opamps, ask about which people find the best sounding and try them out. Just looking for models that have a better value then the LM will probably be a waste of time because that is no gaurantee they will sound any better. You may or may not find a unit with better values for the various measurments but that doesn't mean other units don't sound better. The LM4562/LME49720 is a good opamp for audio and has been well received since it's release a little while back but many will tell you there are many opamps out there that sound better.


----------



## leeperry

I like how bad recordings on the 49720 just sound....plain bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 like the LPCM lossless track on the Pulp Fiction BD, or the remastered HDCD of "King Crimson - In The Court of The Crimson King", you get to hear that the sound resolution is just really really bad.

 w/ the stock op-amps they would be beefed up a bit, w/ some slight saturation/compression...but the 49720 shows you the harsh truth as it is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OTOH, fantastic recordings like the Seal 5.1 24/44.1 DVD-A or the remastered "Enter The Dragon" OST sound truly mind blowing.

 I'm not the only one who thinks that this Seal DVD-A is outta this world : Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Best: 1991-2004 (2 CD & DVD Audio)

  Quote:


 I have never heard,seen experience anything like this,words cannot describe the amazing sound quality coming from this disc [...] the DVD-audio will blow your mind.


----------



## ROBSCIX

If your looking for some linear tech units to check out, commonly recommended units are:
 LT1469, LT1355, LT1358, LT1361, LT1364 and LT1057. There are many others but these seem to come up over and over when asking people who test opamps. There is also a opamp thread I started in the DIY section, you can ask around there as many test on a regular basis.


----------



## 12Bass

LT1057, perhaps?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1057, perhaps?_

 

LT OPA's seem to be talked about by many DIY'ers and they are recommended a great deal for audio use in various circuits from I/V to filtering etc. I have a bunch of them but I still have to try them out. Have you tested any of the listed LT models?

 Edit, I decided to do some testing right now.


----------



## leeperry

but the LT1057 is JFET....which is supposedly pretty bad distortion-wise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess we're more interested in their "low noise" serie? Linear Technology - Low Noise Amplifiers

 apparently op-amps are not only used for audio...and that's where the LME49720/4562 took everyone by storm, they were built from day 1 for audio applications. audioman54 said on diyaudio.com that it took like 10 years to fulfill the 4562/49720 design 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* haha, I'm listening to some Cubase songs of mine made on an old Akai sampler 10 years ago....let's just say that they're not shown in their best light 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the heavy funk breakbeats still sound dirty and phunky, but the bass sounds are wonky and the stereo field is not fully used...this card must be great to compose, tempting tempting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess that's why they invented mastering, will try to give a whirl at Ozone4 to beef things up!

*PS2:* on some gypsy jazz sessions I recorded in studio in Paris, the counterbass also sounds a lot more hollow than it did at that time on the NS10M and the 24 track Soundcraft board...violin and guitars sound great, though! indeed the 49720NA is not too good at reproducing bass...or maybe it's just VERY unforgiving


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^how about highs compared to 49720NA. is it as smooth or harsher? 

 this op-ams hobby surely can get expensive. it looks innocent in the beginning given the price of the units, but once you start rolling them there is no end to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hehe, or read the thread and buy what's recommended and let others be the guinea pigs 

 That said, LT1358 and the LME49720NA/LM4562NA are prime candidates for me...mmmm...
 The LM4562 is alreadly in the I/V buffer as default so I'd think I'll leave that.
 Would definitely like a LT1358 vs. LME49720NA/LM4562NA look though!


----------



## Cynips

So, if I'd try requesting samples of the LT1358, should I go for the LT1358CN8#PBF or the LT1358IN8#PBF?

Linear Technology - LT1358 - Dual and Quad 25MHz, 600V/µs Op Amps


----------



## gurubhai

I used the IN8 versions


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well, I popped in the LT1057's for I/V last night and they work very good.
 I will check ou the 1358 later on and let you know.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I used the IN8 versions_

 

How do you find the LT1358 for I/V?
 I will test myself later, just want to hear your impressions.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_but the LT1057 is JFET....which is supposedly pretty bad distortion-wise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

That's a interesting position, Considering some of the best audio amplifiers chips out there are Jfet input. Such as the OPA627?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 The OPA627 has THD+N measurments in line with the LM4562/LME49720
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess we're more interested in their "low noise" series? Linear Technology - Low Noise Amplifiers_

 

I am interested in any series that provides great sound quality.
 Many of the low noise models are not meant for audio, they are meant for insturmentation, video..etc. Try using them for audio and they sound very sterile and cold. Depends on the model though as I have tried many low noise opamps that sound great.


----------



## gurubhai

I posted my impressions some time back in the thread.
 To summarize again :

 Huge sounstage with clear instrument separation.
 very crisp & detailed, excellent dynamics.
 tight punch bass.
 overall, an excellent choice for I/V


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I posted my impressions some time back in the thread.
 To summarize again :

 Huge sounstage with clear instrument separation.
 very crisp & detailed, excellent dynamics.
 tight punch bass.
 overall, an excellent choice for I/V_

 

I am getting similar results with the LT1057.
 I have some 1358 on my desk. I am going to check them out.
 Is your buffer stock or did you change it out?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To summarize again :

 Huge sounstage with clear instrument separation.
 very crisp & detailed, excellent dynamics.
 tight punch bass.
 overall, an excellent choice for I/V_

 

better than the 49720 then? the bass is lacking on the NA and is a bit overwhelming on the HA...but the trebles are fantastic on the NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 got them for 100% free?


----------



## jfourc

I should be getting my Grado HF-2s in a couple weeks. Can anyone suggest some warmer op amps that would go well with the Grado sound?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_better than the 49720 then? the bass is lacking on the NA and is a bit overwhelming on the HA...but the trebles are fantastic on the NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 got them for 100% free?_

 

"Better" is a subjective term. Some find the LM/LME very good and others do not like it at all. Really depends on your gear your using also. We all use different cans, amps and speakers so our tastes will vary quite a bit when discussing opamps.


----------



## leeperry

I'm gonna end up calling LT & ask them what time it is.

 when I got bored of reading hearsay about beyer products...I talked to their Product Manager, and same for Asus(who recently confirmed that they will try to take my drivers suggestions in account anytime soon) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I felt like the STX took a little while to "settle in"...my ST is only 5 days old, and the 49720NA are not really burned in(I had 5 of them, I'm not 100% sure that these are the 3 I already used for 2 weeks...)

 so I'll let the card burn in for like 2 weeks, ask LT what they think(better talk to God than to his saints)...and maybe they'll have some great chips to advise trying


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, can you give them details of the circuit? -I mean details beyond....Well it is a I/v circuit. Your going to need to know a great deal about the circuit. Which they will need to recommend you any opamp.

 As for your trouble with nasty bass; You are using three of the same opamp which compounds the negative effects of the I/V opamp. Try using a different buffer opamp.

 If you talk to Linear, you are still getting hearsay. Their impressions based on testing they have done with other devices. The only way to know for sure is to get the units and test for yourself. Why do you think many of use have such large collections of opamps? For every favorite I have, I have 3 I don't like.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_better than the 49720 then? the bass is lacking on the NA and is a bit overwhelming on the HA...but the trebles are fantastic on the NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 got them for 100% free?_

 

Yes, got them for free.

 will try the 49720 again tomorrow, reserving judgement till then.


----------



## leeperry

ok, sounds good!...coz the human earing is pretty lousy at making delayed judgments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and one thing I find annoying on the ST over the STX is that the stereo image is a lot more defined....but then lousy recordings become hard to bear. ah well, there's a price to pay for uber-analytical gear I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it sounds like you get to hear all the junk low quality op-amps can output(hissing, saturation, crossfeed, poor filtering, random crackles, etc)...like all these lousy 2680/4580/5532/5534 found in most studio consoles


----------



## ROBSCIX

Many of these opamps are used because they produce results that are fine for the position they are in. The circuit is a major factor in the quality of the sound heard.

 If you compare these older generic opamps to modern units they won't stand up on a measurments basis but as I already mentioned don't get too caught up with measurments because they do not equate directly to sound quality.

 You can find a opamps with great measurments that will be surpassed for sound quality by a opamp of less measured "quality"
 Those opamps you listed are all quite old compred to say a LM4562NA.
 You don't think these audio engineers used these opamps because they produced bad sound quality do you?

 All the negative aspect you suggested can be caused by a bad supporting circuit and not the opamp itself.
 Consider the stock measurments of the STX, those are produced by the JRC 2114D's.
 You can install better sounding opamps but chances are the measurement will not go up and in some cases they may drop.

 Just because the device sounds good doesn't meant it has good measurments and just because it has good measurments does not mean it will sound good.


----------



## leeperry

well, yeah...I thought so too. but if I rewind and play again these specific portions..the artifacts I'm hearing(loss of stereo image, filtering artefacts, crackles, white noise, phase distortion), they're in the source! and I only listen to lossless music in KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 excellent recordings sound mind blowing, so my card is not at fault.

 the 1ppm clock and the 49720 are as transparent as can get...all the junk that's on the records ends up popping out in your ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 5534 was the industry standard, and all the current RME/Digital Echo cards use the 2680...which is plain junk : SlySoft Forum - View Single Post - Bit exact audio in Reclock without any resampling

 as Gregorio put it many times, sound engineers are not audiophiles! they don't care for cables, op-amps yadayada...all that matters is that it sounds good on their NS10 monitors. end of story.

 I'm also annoyed to hear that the gypsy jazz sessions I recorded/mixed as a sound engineer have a pretty lousy bass response on my current system.

 an audiophile system is aimed at letting you hear what came off the studio, and this is not what's happening here! it'd be like a normal person watching paintings made by a colorblind painter


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, yeah...I thought so too. but if I rewind and play again these specific portions..the artifacts I'm hearing(loss of stereo image, filtering artefacts, crackles, white noise, phase distortion), they're in the source! and I only listen to lossless music in KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 excellent recordings sound mind blowing, so my card is not at fault._

 

Depends on the quality of the recording and the gear used. Not all bands or studio use the higest quality gear. Some recording are better then others.
 Some are mixed and mastered better then others.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 1ppm clock and the 49720 are as transparent as can get...all the junk that's on the records ends up popping out in your ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You said the same thing about the STX, and you ended up hearing more with the ST.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 5534 was the industry standard, and all the current RME/Digital Echo cards use the 2680...which is plain junk : SlySoft Forum - View Single Post - Bit exact audio in Reclock without any resampling_

 

Plain junk according to who? - They are bad because they don't have low THD ratings in comparison to the LME? 
 These cards are used by many and are said to be some of the best soundcards avialable for consumer based recording. Don't rely to heavily on measurments of parts. The circuit also has alot to do with the sound quality. Quite frankly, if you haven't heard the device you have no idea what it sounds like.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_as Gregorio put it many times, sound engineers are not audiophiles! they don't care for cables, op-amps yadayada...all that matters is that it sounds good on their NS10 monitors. end of story._

 

Don't lump people together, you have no idea what these guys are or aren't or what they care about or don't.
 Most sound engineers I know have very good ears for what sound good and doesn't. Considering all the time they spend around sound sources.
 Don't suggest that everybody out there uses NS10's either to monitor. -end of story.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm also annoyed to hear that the gypsy jazz sessions I recorded/mixed as a sound engineer have a pretty lousy bass response on my current system.

 an audiophile system is aimed at letting you hear what came off the studio, and this is not what's happening here! it'd be like a normal person watching paintings made by a colorblind painter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Meaning you mixed them wrong or you current setup has bad bass repsonse?
 As I said, seems like your opamps configuration needs some tweaking.
 I am all for clarity and detail but there needs to be a balance between other factors aswell.

 Try using a different opamp for the buffer.


----------



## leeperry

well there's far more details to be heard from the ST than from the STX, I hope you realize that...otherwise it's time to question your audition my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Reclock resamples the audio, which increases the THD distortion....in that particular case, we want op-amps w/ the lowest possible THD/THD+N rates to overcome this problem.

 I've used a Gina24, and man did the sound STINK! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the JRC2068 plus the lousy stock HP amp were a deal breaker of the worst kind.

 I only use headphones atm, so 3 opamps of the same kind is perfectly fine I think.

 the 49720 sound astonishing on the Amelie OST, geez..I'm stunned...the signal purity/musicality and soundstage are just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of course some sound engineers have killer equipment and don't only care about making NS10's happy....but the vast majority did/does/will. ppl listen to music in mp3 on their ipod, on crappy mono TV's, or on utterly compressed FM radio stations. every studio in the world has NS10's, they're the industry standard. if your stuff sounds good on these, you're doing great!

 when ppl say that SACD/DVD-A sound better, it has more to do w/ the mastering than w/ the increased data rate...as Gregorio stated many times.

 well my gypsy jazz recordings sounded great on the NS10! I'll try to make a sample, I think the 49720NA really lacks the low end bass...and that's where the counterbass "resides" basically 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* but the trebles are so clear and transparent, that I'm prolly willing to accept the slight lack of bass on the 49720NA...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well there's far more details to be heard from the ST than from the STX, I hope you realize that...otherwise it's time to question your audition my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I know exactly what the ST sounds like. I have been using it for quite awhile now.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Reclock resamples the audio, which increases the THD distortion....in that particular case, we want op-amps w/ the lowest possible THD/THD+N rates to overcome this problem._

 

How did that come up? - We are talking about the STX/ST. Not reclock.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've used a Gina24, and man did the sound STINK! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 the JRC2068 plus the lousy stock HP amp were a deal breaker of the worst kind._

 

Well everybody has their opinion about various cards. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I only use headphones atm, so 3 opamps of the same kind is perfectly fine I think._

 

Perfectly fine except you keep saying they have bad bass.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 49720 sound astonishing on the Amelie OST, geez..I'm stunned...the signal purity/musicality and soundstage are just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 of course some sound engineers have killer equipment and don't only care about making NS10's happy....but the vast majority did/does/will. ppl listen to music in mp3 on their ipod, on crappy mono TV's, or on utterly compressed FM radio stations._

 

Sorry no, won't even give you the "vast majority" You are grouping a whole bunch of people together like you have any idea of what they do or what they are interested in. Get real you have no idea.
 People listen to Mp3 on their Ipod, crappy mono TV or FM radio?
 You really have to stop grouping people together. For instance, I don't use MP3. My TV is stereo, surround for movies and I don't listen to the radio.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_every studio in the world has NS10's, they're the industry standard. if your stuff sounds good on these, you're doing great!_

 

Really? -You have been to every studio in the world to check? I know exactly what NS10's are but that doesn't mean everybody uses them or every studio out there uses them. If your monitors are flat you can mix on them. You also say at the bottom, you mixed your music on the NS10's yet the bass is wrong/off/bad...so? -your contradicting yourself.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_when ppl say that SACD/DVD-A sound better, it has more to do w/ the mastering than w/ the increased data rate...as Gregorio stated many times.

 well my gypsy jazz recordings sounded great on the NS10! I'll try to make a sample, I think the 49720NA really lacks the low end bass...and that's where the counterbass "resides" basically 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Then again are you sure it is your opamps and not your playback gear?

 Anyway, lets get back to the card and opamps.
 Do you need to use the headphone output for your headphones?
 What I mean is, do you need the amplification? Perhaps it is the LME mixing with the response of the headphone amplifier that is giving you the "bad" bass you keep talking about. Can you test with the line outs and see if that fixes the issue?

*PS:* If you don't need the headphone amplifier on the card you may be able to use a buffer opamp to fix the response and get what your after.


----------



## leeperry

when I hear loudness war music, I have no respect for what comes off recording/mastering studios. they feed kids w/ junk.

 well, every studio has NS10 : ns10 studio - Google Image Search

 they're used to control the mix, nothing more...these things sound like a shoebox, they're just a dumbed down reference to check w/ reality.

 the bass on my jazz mixes is fine, it's just that the 49720 likes to tame it down for some reason. even my fav. reggae albums sound bass shy on these things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I haven't tried the lineout on my DT770/600 tbh, it didn't even cross my mind...I guess I'll try one day when I'll be bored. but my 600Ohmers are power hungry, and sound dull w/ the lowest gain control on the HP out.

 anyway, if I could find an op-amp w/ the same crazily transparent and undistorted trebles as the 49720NA....and yet keep the low end bass alive, that'd be a damn miracle! but I don't really believe in miracles, and both TI and LT don't dare to show distortion specs...why not? something to hide here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my DT770 can output as much bass as I want, the 2114D and the 49720HA make it up the roof! but the trebles sound distorted as hell on the 2114, and pretty bad on the 49720HA..if National thought the 49720NA was their best shot, maybe there's a very good reason..and only going discrete could do any better than that


----------



## ROBSCIX

..Back to the STX.


----------



## leeperry

humm the 49720NA seems to have a hole around 40Hz...maybe some smart EQ will "fix" the glitch, and keep the trebles pristine...will try tomorrow w/ fresh ears


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyway, if I could find an op-amp w/ the same crazily transparent and undistorted trebles as the 49720NA....and yet keep the low end bass alive, that'd be a damn miracle! but I don't really believe in miracles, and both TI and LT don't dare to show distortion specs...why not? something to hide here? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 my DT770 can output as much bass as I want, the 2114D and the 49720HA make it up the roof! but the trebles sound distorted as hell on the 2114, and pretty bad on the 49720HA..if National thought the 49720NA was their best shot, maybe there's a very good reason..and only going discrete could do any better than that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

This is an exaggeration. The NA have less bass impact/definition/depth than the 2114 and slightly less definition than the HA. It's still one of the better bass performers from all the opamps I've used, and I don't feel it lacking unbearably in any way. Some of my earliest comments (very long ago) regarding the lack of bass definition of the NA was partly due to my opamps in the M^3. Since then, my M^3 has been outfitted with the most transparent opamps (out of the ones I own) and I've come to realize the NA in the STX aren't bad wrt bass reproduction. 

 More importantly, I want you to realize that I'm not trying to contradict you're findings. I think you are truthfully conveying what you are hearing. So why are we hearing two different things? The main reason for that is the fact you're using the amped output on the STX, which I found not only made the treble harsher, soundstage more compressed, but also shortened the bass decay unnaturally and reduced the depth of the bass a bit. The line-outs feeding into a proper amp would resolve a lot of the issues you're finding with the STX. I say this after a LOT of experimenting with quite a few headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_humm the 49720NA seems to have a hole around 40Hz...maybe some smart EQ will "fix" the glitch, and keep the trebles pristine...will try tomorrow w/ fresh ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Some don't like the treble on the LM4562NA/LME49720NA. I have been using these opamps since they were first released and remember telling many others about them for use on the XM card.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is an exaggeration. The NA have less bass impact/definition/depth than the 2114 and slightly less definition than the HA. It's still one of the better bass performers from all the opamps I've used, and I don't feel it lacking unbearably in any way. Some of my earliest comments (very long ago) regarding the lack of bass definition of the NA was partly due to my opamps in the M^3. Since then, my M^3 has been outfitted with the most transparent opamps (out of the ones I own) and I've come to realize the NA in the STX aren't bad in bass performance. 

 More importantly, I want you to realize that I'm not trying to contradict what you're hearing. I think you are truthfully conveying what you are hearing. So why are we hearing two different things? The main reason for that is the fact you're using the amped output on the STX, which I found not only made the treble harsher, soundstage more compressed, but also shortened the bass decay unnaturally and reduced the depth of the bass a bit. The line-outs feeding into a proper amp would resolve a lot of the issues you're finding with the STX. I say this after a LOT of experimenting with quite a few headphones._

 

What is difficult, is we all use very different gear and we hear very different things when using the same opamps.


----------



## leeperry

yes, I guess the STX HP amp section is not perfect...what do you expect for $200? it already gives a LOT for this price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I'm killing 2 spikes at 6.4Khz and 10KHz that my outer ears like to resonate to....and now I'm adding a slight bump at 40Hz, and voila! "walk on the wild side" from Lou Reed sounds fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 the 2114D gives a rockish saturated compressed bass...like what OzoneMP would do.

*PS: *"Nick Cave - Red Right Hand.flac" also has a very subtle sub bass that is barely audible w/o EQ'ing on the 49720NA..


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is difficult, is we all use very different gear and we hear very different things when using the same opamps._

 

I used quite a few headphones and used a fairly neutral amp, so I think I largely (but not completely) eliminated the equipment variables. However, I do agree with the hearing part. leeperry described some ear canal resonances unique to his own ears above and I've found resonance peaks for my ears as well, which I eq down slightly. These resonances are present regardless of the equipment used, so hearing this with the STX definitely can't be blamed on the card. 

 Either way, these resonances are more or less confined to certain trouble zones in the lower treble (sometimes upper treble as well), and I've never seen complaints of bass resonance in the outer/middle ear. This is why I felt it was valid to clarify leeperry's comments on the bass of the NA as I feel bass frequencies are mostly heard in the same way among everyone (relative to the rest of the frequency spectrum).


----------



## leeperry

strangely enough, when I went from NA to HA the resonances shifted from 6400 to 7000Hz and from 10K to 10.5K 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 prolly a mix of the outer ear resonances against the STX's internal FR or sumthing..

 anyway, VST support works in 32FP in foobar, and ElectriQ has several linear/reduced phase modes...that sound just fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but indeed, some sub bass notes appear slightly "shorter" than they actually are..rather strange. the NA are all about being percussive! percussions sound amazing on this setup anyway, I never get bored of my 20 bit dithered percussion CD's


----------



## Shahrose

BTW leeperry. I just saw the image you posted of your equalizer setting. The way you've set it introduces very significant distortion to the sound. I'm referring to the boost in the bass. At no point should the frequency curve rise above the 0dB level in the equalizer. Just set an all-pass point anywhere and cut the dB of the entire frequency response until the highest peaks just touch the 0dB line.

 For example:


----------



## gurubhai

installed the 49720NAs.

 Coming to comparison between LT1358 and these the main differnence is PRAT . Compared to 1358 these sound a bit slow.
 IMO 1358 have the best qualities of 49720NA with a faster, more dynamic presentation.
 They also have better bass response than 49720s

 Overall, I prefer LT1358 more. Curse you people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, for making me change these, Now I have to change again.

 Ahh,lets get back to work.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_BTW leeperry. I just saw the image you posted of your equalizer setting. The way you've set it introduces very significant distortion to the sound. I'm referring to the boost in the bass. At no point should the frequency curve rise above the 0dB level in the equalizer. Just set an all-pass point anywhere and cut the dB of the entire frequency response until the highest peaks just touch the 0dB line._

 

good point! but I just came up w/ this idea at 3AM...I'll investigate both solutions.
 but clearly the bass is distorted as hell w/ the 2114D, it sounds utterly compressed...I mostly care for undistorted trebles, but a bit of distortion in the bass response might not be as bad as it initially looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and when I said that the resonant spikes shifted a half Khz, it wasn't when I switched from NA to HA...it was when I switched from the stock DT770 cable to the cryo-parts TWcu. this cable didn't work at all on my setup, the bass was up the roof and the trebles were tame and veiled 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Overall, I prefer LT1358 more. Curse you people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, for making me change these_

 

ok sounds like a plan, gonna order some I guess


----------



## chinesekiwi

going to ring a local distributor tomorrow and if they have the LT1358's = oh ye-ah, buy time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are LT distributors according to LT's very own website =


----------



## leeperry

I was going through the LT op-amps specs : Linear Technology - Product Category Parametric Table

LME49720 / LT1358
 slew rate: 20V / 600V
 gain bandwidth: 55Mhz / 25Mhz

 I read that the higher the slew rate, the more refined the trebles...that'd appear to be the "speed" of the op-amp.

 if you check that link : Linear Technology - Product Category Parametric Table

 enable only " = 2 channels" " = DIP8" and sort them by slew rate, and the 1058 is not on top.





 I understand too high of a slew rate might be a problem, though...maybe I'll simply ask for 2 samples of the top 4 ones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





*PS:* Analog Devices go up to 1.4KV slew rate...this might end up being a tad too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




http://www.analog.com/dynamic/parame...Line=OPA&la=en

 you need to sort them by 2 channels, DIP and then slew rate. I think I read about the AD828...it's 450V and 130MHz. and they give out sample too!

 and the top 3 ones max voltage is 12V, this might be good for our needs


----------



## leeperry

it would appear that all op-amps are compromises...and only discrete ones will give you all at ONCE, but it's no news. bursons and gd-audio are on the top of the list for many ppl.

 anyway, reading this link : Operational amplifier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  Quote:


 Other imperfections include:

 Finite bandwidth — all amplifiers have a finite bandwidth. This creates several problems for op amps. First, associated with the bandwidth limitation is a phase difference between the input signal and the amplifier output that can lead to oscillation in some feedback circuits. The internal frequency compensation used in some op amps to increase the gain or phase margin intentionally reduces the bandwidth even further to maintain output stability when using a wide variety of feedback networks. Second, reduced bandwidth results in lower amounts of feedback at higher frequencies, producing higher distortion, noise, and output impedance and also reduced output phase linearity as the frequency increases. 
 

we aim at having the highest possible bandwidth w/o oscillating....so the LT1229 looks pretty money, and so do the AD812/AD8072


----------



## ROBSCIX

Usually opamps with very high slewrates are meant for other tasks such as video.
 Your specs only need to be so high to cover audio after that your getting into over kill using amplfiiers that were not designed for audio. Many of these units will have great specs but will sound...not so good.
 For LT. tested the LT1057 the other day, sounded very good for I/V, I have more to test but I have other units to test. Seems I never stop testing something or other.
 BTW, Wikki is not the best source for information.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_going to ring a local distributor tomorrow and if they have the LT1358's = oh ye-ah, buy time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They are LT distributors according to LT's very own website = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I have a set of LT1358's here. Let me pop them in and give you some impressions.


----------



## 12Bass

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it would appear that all op-amps are compromises...and only discrete ones will give you all at ONCE, but it's no news. bursons and gd-audio are on the top of the list for many ppl._

 

Pretty much every real-world circuit necessitates compromise. Even wire and resistors affect the sound, if only slightly, while capacitors and active components tend to make a greater difference. Design and layout are also huge factors. In other words, I'm not convinced that discrete opamps are without compromise....


----------



## leeperry

yeah, I'm getting bored of seeing only National showing distortion rates and saying that they built op-amps specifically for audio purposes.

 I've just sent the same email to TI/AD and LT asking them what would be their suggestion for a general purpose I/V audio chip on par w/ the 49720NA..time will tell 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might just order the LT1358 samples right away, coz I'm growing tired of the 49720NA cutting my audio in small pieces...it wants to be very percussive, but it chops up any sustained notes. friggin' annoying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in the meantime, maybe I'll try the 4562NA again


----------



## leeperry

ok I've ordered 2 samples of LT1229 and LT1358.

 I know the 1358 is meant for video and has a very high slew rate...but it worked out nicely for gurubhai 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, a poorly matched op-amp will only crackle or oscillate...it won't ruin the card ?!


----------



## ROBSCIX

..it could. 
 Trouble is when the opamp oscillates outside of the audible spectrum. You cannot hear it but it is malfuncitoning. Heat is a good indicator. However, they produce excess amounts of heat because they are pulling way too much current. -Even the stock opamps will get hot to some degree. Usually very fast opamps are the trouble makers as they get hard to stabalize. It can be done though, if you really like a certain opamp.


----------



## gurubhai

@Rob wating for your impressions on LT1358.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Rob wating for your impressions on LT1358._

 

I tried them last night and I didn't like them but I was using a different buffer opamp. I tried them again today with the LM4562NA stock buffer and the LT1358 sound pretty good. I just listened to a few songs. I also checked the heat and they are a bit warm but nothing to worry about. I tried the LT1057's last night and liked those also. Both are fairly balanced using a LM buffer. Using the right buffer can make a great deal of difference. This is why I usually recommend against using the same I/V and buffer. BTW, I am using speakers.
 When your using headphone you have to make sure your opamps match up good with the TI Headphone amp chip.


----------



## chinesekiwi

LT1358 vs LT1057 ????


----------



## ROBSCIX

Not sure. I would have to do some listening tests. Both sound good just different.
 Grab both and decide for yourself.


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm of the opinion that its silly to do anything in a 3x combination. a buffer does a different job then an I/V converter so logic would dictate then an amp thats good in one role is probably not great in another. 

 Having said that, has anyone tried the BUF634 or OPA627/637 as a buffer? Perhaps even AD843?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not sure. I would have to do some listening tests. Both sound good just different.
 Grab both and decide for yourself._

 

Care to name those differences?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just order them and test them out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

OK, I did a very quick comparison. If I had to choose between the two I would take the 1057's. I am using speakers also for the tests....Just a quick listen to one song on both opamps. I tested the LT1358 first:

 1358
 Good bass definiton
 Good clarity without being too gritty or cold.
 Well balanced.
 Good seperation.
 Wide soundstage.

 1057
 Good bass definition but a bit more balanced.
 Good clarity but has more warmth and blending.
 More micro details, you can hear reverb better.
 More transients -cymbals seem more prominent.
 Great soundstage.
 Sound more "analog" more "tube" like...

 Our ears and gear are very different so take this comparison as what it is, nothign but a quick listen.
 Both are good just different, people look for and like different sound in opamps so a model I may like others may not..etc.


----------



## Shahrose

Thanks ROB. I ordered some LT opamps last week (including the LT1057/1358) so they should be arriving soon. I'll try to post my impressions as well.

 BTW, using speakers would make no difference, as long as they're fairly high-end/transparent. I would use more than one song though


----------



## gurubhai

@Rob : are you using lineout or headphone out ?
 also, I have a pair of LT1057 lying with me, will test those too.

 PS : I use the headphone outs for all my listening.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks ROB. I ordered some LT opamps last week (including the LT1057/1358) so they should be arriving soon. I'll try to post my impressions as well.

 BTW, using speakers would make no difference, as long as they're fairly high-end/transparent. I would use more than one song though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, more impression of the same units helps decide which is the oapmps and which is the system. My speakers and amplifiers are fairly neutral though. I also have monitors that I use when I need to be very sure. I just mentioned it in case some think it is a factor if they are using headphone out.
 I just did the tests really quick to help out Chinesekiwi. Nothing serious.
 When I popped in the LT1057's last night I also like them.
 I have some new adapters on the way today that I wil be using to make some new modules.
 I soldered up about 12 new ones the other night.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Rob : are you using lineout or headphone out ?
 also, I have a pair of LT1057 lying with me, will test those too.

 PS : I use the headphone outs for all my listening._

 

I use the line-outs. Yes try out the LT1057's. I just did some very quick testing but that is what I heard. With line-out the buffer is also a factor so I popped the LM4562NA back in so it would be stock.


----------



## leeperry

ok, 6 weeks after I asked TI finally delivered my OPA211ID samples, 12bass told me that they were pretty cool! I will ask a friend to solder them on DIP8 adapters.

 and LT got back to me :
  Quote:


 Hi leeperry,

 Audio is not an application that we have focused on, but our parts are often
 selected for high-end systems. Some good parts to consider include:

 LT1468 (low distortion, low current noise, low voltage noise)
 LT1678
 LT1364
 LT6231 (for lower supply voltage apps)

 Best regards,
 Brian XXX

 Signal Conditioning Products
 Linear Technology Corporation


----------



## leeperry

apparently the LT1468 is really money : Linear Technology - LT1468 - 90MHz, 22V/us 16-Bit Accurate Operational Amplifier

 it appears to have been engineered specifically for I/V, and it's got 22V slew rate/90Mhz bandwidth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 someone on diyaudio.com called it "smooth"...humm they also have the LT1468-2 : http://www.linear.com/pc/productDeta...9,C1021,P86473


----------



## Bojamijams

The 1468 is a 16-bit I/V converter though... I wonder if it works with 24bit DAC's


----------



## leeperry

1468 is single, we need 69 or 69-2

 I don't think it has to do w/ the DAC bitdepth...it's the internal processing of the I/V op-amp...god knows about the bitdepth on the 4562 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ah well, they talk about "16 bit DAC" for the application in the PDF...I will ask the LT guy


----------



## leeperry

anyway, I think I've found a -sneaky- way to increase the bass response on the 49720NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 and it's a lot less fatiguing to listen to...that uber-low jitter was giving me hangovers w/ headphones tbh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 To help reduce listening fatigue caused by the unnatural stereo image provided by headphones, Crossfeed processes the left and right channels of stereo audio signals with a filter that mimics the sound absorption characteristics of the human head. After running through this filter, it then mixes a delayed portion of the left and right channels with each other to simulate the delay that occurs when listening to audio signals through stereo speakers positioned approximately 60 degrees apart from each other. The effect is subtle.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1468 is single, we need 69 or 69-2

 I don't think it has to do w/ the DAC bitdepth...it's the internal processing of the I/V op-amp...god knows about the bitdepth on the 4562 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ah well, they talk about "16 bit DAC" for the application in the PDF...I will ask the LT guy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 Not quite. Analog components do not have bit depth. This "accuracy" has to do with the amplitude errors produced and the minimum error you can expect. It is a bit tricky to explain. 
 You can use two single on a brown dog adapter. If you want to go with these opamps. Many of linear opamps are designed for insturmentation or other applications. So depending on the unit there is no garuntee they will sound good. If your talking with their guys though they can probably point you to some decent audio opamps. Probably pretty much the same ones people recommend all the time.


----------



## leeperry

yeah, I thought it had to do w/ the op-amp internal accuracy...but this seems pretty technical indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, theoritical 24bit is nice and all, but hardly any consumer system can actually output more than 18bit I believe...and I don't plan on listening to >96dB sound level anyway.

 so this LT1469(-2?) still look pretty interesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*EDIT:* ok, I've ordered some OPA2111 samples..they seem more bassy than the 4562/1469 : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...olling-304261/

*PS *: got a reply :

  Quote:


 The LT1468 (or dual version LT1469) is not restricted to 16-bit DAC applications. In fact, if you look at the National part you list below, THD+N is somewhere around 70dB. This is nowhere close to even 16-bit performance. The LT1469-2 is a faster version of the LT1469 but has a minimum gain requirement of 2 for stability.

 Of the parts listed below, the 1364 is available in DIP-8 so maybe that's your best choice. One of our guys who plays with this part in the lab reported that he saw distortion performance that was even better than is suggested by the graphs in the data sheet. He said it was low to the point that he had trouble measuring it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the opamps is not locked into 16 bit application....I know the idea is a bit confusing I had to brush up a bit. The 16 bit accuracy listing is to give designers a idea on how much error they can expect with relation to amplitude.

 As for which opamp to try, The only way to know for sure if it sound good or not is to test. Be careful of the fast ones. Many of them are not designed for audio and will not work properly.

 I just built some new opamp modules I will post a pic or two tommorow.


----------



## leeperry

well I've read quite a lot of reviews/comparisons, everyone agrees that the 4562 lacks low end bass response(whatever in here on on french forums)...and that LT1469 is said to have very fatiguing trebles. I hope the LT1358 and OPA2111 will deliver


----------



## Bojamijams

1364 as buffer and the NA/HA as I/V would be a very pleasing combo I would think.. ROBSCIX, any chance you can test such a combo?


----------



## taso89

^

 I'm tempted to try it. Perhaps later tonight


----------



## chinesekiwi

So this one is the right one for the LT1057? (dip8)

LINEAR TECHNOLOGY|LT1057CN8#PBF|OP AMP, DUAL, 1057, DIP8 | Farnell New Zealand


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1364 as buffer and the NA/HA as I/V would be a very pleasing combo I would think.. ROBSCIX, any chance you can test such a combo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I will give it a go tommorow and let you know the results.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So this one is the right one for the LT1057? (dip8)

LINEAR TECHNOLOGY|LT1057CN8#PBF|OP AMP, DUAL, 1057, DIP8 | Farnell New Zealand_

 

That is the right one.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will give it a go tommorow and let you know the results._


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1364 as buffer and the NA/HA as I/V would be a very pleasing combo I would think.. ROBSCIX, any chance you can test such a combo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I've already tried this combination. I posted my impressions on it a long time ago in the Sneak Peek thread. You'd have to look for it. I remember the LME49720NA had a comparable (but slightly larger) soundstage but more prominent treble than the 1364. The LT1364 had a nice smooth treble and better imaging than the 49720 and was great overall but I distinctly remember being disappointed by its bass extension (quality was great).


----------



## amitz

What setting of sample rate should I set for music? 
 Should I just leave it at 192KHz for all uses or change it for every use?
 I the card as analog, the speakers & headphones are connected directly to it.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've already tried this combination. I posted my impressions on it a long time ago in the Sneak Peek thread. You'd have to look for it. I remember the LME49720NA had a comparable (but slightly larger) soundstage but more prominent treble than the 1364. The LT1364 had a nice smooth treble and better imaging than the 49720 and was great overall but I distinctly remember being disappointed by its bass extension (quality was great)._

 

But if you're comparing them to one another, then weren't they used in the same slots and not as buffer AND I/V?


----------



## Mr_Owlow

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *amitz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What setting of sample rate should I set for music? 
 Should I just leave it at 192KHz for all uses or change it for every use?
 I the card as analog, the speakers & headphones are connected directly to it._

 

If you set the card to 192KHz it will force resampling of everything with lower samplerate, this does affect the sound quality in a negative way, but not it is not noticable in general. I would recomend testing different samplerates and if you can discern any loss in quality you switch it so it matches the source. 
 If on the other hand you can't hear any difference I think you should set it to match the samplerate of the media, i.e if you play alot of CD based audio (MP3/FLAC) you set it to 44,1. If you look at alot of dvd's, set it to 96, and if you play blue-ray set it to 192...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_But if you're comparing them to one another, then weren't they used in the same slots and not as buffer AND I/V?_

 

My comparison was between the 1xLT1364 + 2xLME49720NA combo and 3xLME49720NA combo. That's what you asked for above.

 I'm quite sure I also tried the LT1364 in the I/V and got similar results, although I don't fully remember. Sorry.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My comparison was between the 1xLT1364 + 2xLME49720NA combo and 3xLME49720NA combo. That's what you asked for above.

 I'm quite sure I also tried the LT1364 in the I/V and got similar results, although I don't fully remember. Sorry._

 

Ah I see. Well it won't hurt to have another opinion on hand


----------



## leeperry

is there any tutorial around for RMAA?

 my DT770 lacks some mids freqs on the left driver(even on the motherboard audio chip), but I wanna be damn sure that the card is 100% OK too...

 RMAA either tells me that the volume is too low/too loud...or that there's some crossfeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I get very ugly FR on the left channel


----------



## ROBSCIX

RMAA will probably not show you such things...UNLESS you have a very nasty tilt or hole in your frequency response. Chances are the response will look basically flat.

 If your having issue setting up the application...makes sure all your recording inputs are muted aside form the one your using. You also need a a loopback cable to loop the outputs to the inputs. This will wok for the line-outs but for the heapdhoens out you will need a different cable.

 Without the loopback cable your getting usless infomation because the data never hits the analog domain it is just routed through the card digitally...that is no good.
 There is a guide around for the D2...should help you get the settings right.
 I use RMAA all the time and it is a tricky program to get useful measurments from.
 as for the volume being to low or too loud, you have to set the volume with the meter up so you can get it to about -1db..IIRC. This will give you proper measurments.

 What you are getting is crosstalk, signal bleed form one channel to the other. There can be a few reasons for this.


----------



## leeperry

well yeah I've put a monstercable between the RCA out and the 1/4" input. I've disabled all other input/outputs.

 everything's prettty OK, except that the FR for the left channel is completely screwed up(even w/ the stock op-amps), and same goes for THD. honestly, I think my card is faulty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 still trying to figure out wth is up


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ah I see. Well it won't hurt to have another opinion on hand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I should be able to get to that test later today. I made some new test modules last night. Using the LME49710 TO-99's. I tested them yesterday and a bit today and I am very impressed.


----------



## leeperry

ok it keeps saying "PROBLEM: Inter-channel leakage in the recorded signal. Possible cause: connection cables, swapped channels."





 it's a brand new Monster cable that works just fine

 I'll try it on my KRK Rokit just to be sure..


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I should be able to get to that test later today. I made some new test modules last night. Using the LME49710 TO-99's. I tested them yesterday and a bit today and I am very impressed.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

This is one combination I've actually been eager to try. The LME49710s are touted as being the better sounding opamp compared to the 49720.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is one combination I've actually been eager to try. The LME49710s are touted as being the better sounding opamp compared to the 49720._

 

Yes they are, according to all the information I have and personal testing so far. The ones I built turned out very nice. I will post some pics later possibly


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok it keeps saying "PROBLEM: Inter-channel leakage in the recorded signal. Possible cause: connection cables, swapped channels."


 it's a brand new Monster cable that works just fine

 who said I'm gonna send it back and buy a Compass instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try it on my KRK Rokit just to be sure, but no wonder it was giving me crazy hangovers.._

 

The cable swapped is a generic answer. this can happen internally also. Before you tested the card did you make sure all effects etc were disabled?
 Easy way to do it is to hit the Hi-fi preset.


----------



## leeperry

yes, I'm in HiFi mode...yes the cable is OK, and RMAA doesn't give any error msg w/ the Realtek mobo chip. I'm gonna play around some more.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Considering the response you posted, how could you possible think this was proper or sounded good?

 Put the stock opamps back in and measure it that way.
 There is a Xonar D2 test guide on the RMAA site try and use that for setting up RMAA properly.
 Make sure your recording from the line in and your sending the test out through the line out.


----------



## leeperry

alright, this D2 guide helped a lot! actually you have to use MME to record but DS to playback 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I still suck in the crosstalk dpt on the lineout 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 but maybe it's normal, considering that it was also worse than the STX in the measurements booklets they give w/ the cards..

 I wanna try the full internal mode, but I don't have the "ALT" mixer they talk about in the PDF....I will now measure the HP out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, if your getting RMAA saying there is a error it is severe bleedthrough and it is NOT normal. 
 A small difference in crosstalk would show up on the results. Not as a error when your setting levels. There is no big deal about the ALT out that is a internal loopback for recording. 
 Use the guide for the D2 but select "Line-In" for recording.

 There is some type of trouble somewhere. Did you put in the stock opamps?
 MME is the only option for recording but you have both DS and MME for playback. IIRC, MME can give a bit lower results then DS. There is usually both options for different cards.

 Just so I am clear on the issue, when you first set your levels, You have the two level meters -There is a box that lights red and says you have interchannel leakage? -If this is true then yes you have some type of trouble in your setup or settings.


----------



## leeperry

I was getting the leakage error msg during the sound level tests, apparently that's because I goofed up in the lousy Asus drivers GUI 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the HP w/ the mid setting looks good :





 strangely it's slightly better w/ the top gain setting, but this one one sounds saturated on my DT770. I wasn't able to measure the lowest gain setting, as it's not loud enough.

 I still dunno why the crosstalk sucks on the line out(I've tried 2 different cables), though..but as I said the ST was worse than the STX in the measurements booklet they give w/ the cards.

 and I think my initial problem is that my DT770 has an imbalanced FR(lacks quite a lot of mids on the left driver)...that was less apparent on the STX, the ST has such a clear stereo stage that it's become very annoying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and BTW, TI got back to me :

  Quote:


 I’m the local field apps person and your request was sent to me. We also make a version of the 5532 if you would like to try it.

 The OPA134 (dual available) is also a very nice amp for audio.

 Some have had success using our very high speed, low distortion amps for audio, like the THS4032.

 The standard for pro audio is the OPA627, only available in singles. – hope this helps.


 NE5532A: Dual Low-Noise Operational Amplifier
 Product Folder: Operational Amplifiers - Standard Linear Amplifiers - NE5532A - TI.com
 Datasheet (PDF): http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/slos075i/slos075i.pdf

 SA5532A: Dual Low-Noise Operational Amplifier
 Product Folder: Operational Amplifiers - Standard Linear Amplifiers - SA5532A - TI.com
 Datasheet (PDF): http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/slos075i/slos075i.pdf

 100-MHz Low-Noise High-Speed Amplifiers (Rev. F) (slos224f.pdf)
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/slos224f/slos224f.pdf

 SoundPlus™ High Performance Audio Operational Amplifiers (sbos058.pdf)
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/sbos058/sbos058.pdf

 Precision High-Speed Difet® Operational Amplifiers (sbos165.pdf)
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/sbos165/sbos165.pdf


----------



## leeperry

..and I'd like to do an internal loopback w/o an external cable, but there's no "ALT" mixer on the ST...it doesn't appear to be possible like on the D2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and having seconds thoughts, I really don't see where that LT guy got the "70 dB" figure for the 49720 from 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 The LT1468 (or dual version LT1469) is not restricted to 16-bit DAC
 applications. In fact, if you look at the National part you list below,
 THD+N is somewhere around 70dB. This is nowhere close to even 16-bit
 performance


----------



## ROBSCIX

All those chips they mentioned are common audio chips.
 The OPA134? Such as the dual version OPA2134? -Used on a card or two and I recommended as a upgrade for the JRC2114Ds. The THS4032's are very fast and not meant for audio so you may have trouble stabalazing them for use in the STX/ST. 
 Of course they would mention the famous OPA627 or 637 has THD measurments pretty much the same as the LM/LME's many have been using on the STX.-IIRC. They are nice but quite expensive for this application.
 You need two per module and an adapter board and the skill to solder them to the board.

 You cannot do a internal loopback in the same way with the STX/ST as you can on the D2 because there is no internal analog route. All you will be doing is staying in the digital domain and your results will be useless as the audio never goes to the analog components.

 are you using the stock opamps, or are you using the HA's?


----------



## leeperry

well, he talk about the THS4032...which is really awesome from many ppl's testimonials, too bad it's SOIC8 only and has such a high slew rate. DIP8 is an old legacy socket apparently.

 I'm using the stock op-amps, I'd be curious to see your RMAA results of the ST...but apparently if you plan on using the line out, the STX is much better option crosstalk-wise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the stock op-amps have distorted trebles, but at least they don't sparkle so much....I was told by many -highly skilled- old-timers that the 5532 just gets it "right", you can get cleaner but it's not really required, nor desirable...as in their opinion most recordings were engineered on 5532/5534 to begin w/ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 4562 is a very fatiguing op-amp, basically it's a "PRAT vs analytical" story..

*PS:* an interesting test : RMAA Testing of Audio IC Op Amps


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1364 as buffer and the NA/HA as I/V would be a very pleasing combo I would think.. ROBSCIX, any chance you can test such a combo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hey Boj, sorry I didn't get to it today but I will give this configuration a test run tommorow. I have to test a few new units anyway as I have been busy building new modules so I might aswell test this config aswell.
 I will try the LT1057 as buffer and HA/NA's for I/V, I was considering this combo also. We will see or rather hear tommorow, I will keep you posted.


----------



## gurubhai

I have a question.
 Does the Gain settings for headphone amp change voltage / current outputs or is it purely a software volume gain ?


----------



## leeperry

it's clearly hardware accelerated, just like the master volume control.


----------



## gurubhai

any idea how its implemented ?
 the xbit people say that output impedance remains the same across all modes.


----------



## leeperry

I dunno if many ppl ran their card through RMAA, but the FR both both channels on the HP out(mid setting) is not exactly identical for me : 



 it looks neater here : Review Image » Asus Xonar Essence STX Review - Overclockers Club

 here's my other measurements :



 

 

 

 

 

 

  Quote:


 Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB +0.01, -0.09 Excellent 
 Noise level, dB (A) -110.0 Excellent 
 Dynamic range, dB (A) 110.2 Excellent 
 THD, % 0.0005 Excellent 
 THD + Noise, dB (A) -100.7 Excellent 
 IMD + Noise, % 0.0012 Excellent 
 Stereo crosstalk, dB -108.2 Excellent 
 IMD at 10 kHz, % 0.0011 Excellent 
 General performance Very good 
 

the volume appears slightly louder on the right channel...but I think my DT770 left driver is busted anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've set the volume in the Asus drivers to 75%/73% and it seems a lot better now...for some reason I can't reach 74%


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_any idea how its implemented ?
 the xbit people say that output impedance remains the same across all modes._

 

directly within the TI headphones amp registers?
 it doesn't change the impedance, it changes the internal gain of the chip.

 the master volume is also hardware accelerated...prolly in the C-Media chip.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey Boj, sorry I didn't get to it today but I will give this configuration a test run tommorow. I have to test a few new units anyway as I have been busy building new modules so I might aswell test this config aswell.
 I will try the LT1057 as buffer and HA/NA's for I/V, I was considering this combo also. We will see or rather hear tommorow, I will keep you posted._

 

Appreciate it man


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question.
 Does the Gain settings for headphone amp change voltage / current outputs or is it purely a software volume gain ?_

 

It changes the Gain setting on the headphone amp chip itself. The chip will have pins that enable and disable certain gain ranges. 
 E.g. The Halo uses same chip but you have to set a jumper on the card for the various gain ranges. 
 ASUS added software "jumper" to allow you to set gain without removing the card and setting a jumper. Much better idea if you ask me.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I dunno if many ppl ran their card through RMAA, but the FR both both channels on the HP out(mid setting) is not exactly identical for me.
 the volume appears slightly louder on the right channel...but I think my DT770 left driver is busted anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've set the volume in the Asus drivers to 75%/73% and it seems a lot better now...for some reason I can't reach 74% 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Are you measuring with the HA's installed or with the stock opamps?


----------



## leeperry

stock op-amps, you asked me 3 times already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I haven't found some full RMAA results for the STX, but I've compared w/ the Claro Halo graphs HT-Omega sent me, and they also don't have the same spot-on FR for both channels. what is apparent, though, is that IMD goes up the roof on their card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 what kind of difference do you hear between the ST/STX w/ headphones? I thought the STX had a messy soundstage compared to the ST, but the ST seems I dunno....too analytical? maybe it's just in my head. I've now fixed the slight volume imbalance of my DT770 by setting the volume to 75/73(instead of 76/76)...and it seems better.

 also the 49720(whatever HA or NA) were really too analytical on top of the crazy ST clock...I'm starting to realize that there's a limit to distortion-free audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've also asked Asus if they could let us input numeric values in the sliders...geez, I can't reach 74% w/ the mouse, this is ridiculous. hopefully they will finally offer bit-matched drivers, so I can get rid of that geeky-worthless GUI.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It changes the Gain setting on the headphone amp chip itself. The chip will have pins that enable and disable certain gain ranges. 
 E.g. The Halo uses same chip but you have to set a jumper on the card for the various gain ranges. 
 ASUS added software "jumper" to allow you to set gain without removing the card and setting a jumper. Much better idea if you ask me._

 

So, would that mean that Voltage output would change according to gain ?
 Has anybody tried to measure the Voltage out from the onboard amp at different gain settings ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stock op-amps, you asked me 3 times already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 I know but I don't remember getting a answer.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyway, I haven't found some full RMAA results for the STX, but I've compared w/ the Claro Halo graphs HT-Omega sent me, and they also don't have the same spot-on FR for both channels. what is apparent, though, is that IMD goes up the roof on their card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The FR for my cards is accurate from left to right. You can get tiny variations..for variouse reason but they are nothing to worry about aslong as the variation isn't too large. Don't rely too heavily on RMAA and spec sheet measurements as a way of judging sound quality. It won't work.

 You can have exceptional gear that may not measure so good and excpetional measurments that don't sound very good. There is really no way to relate the two aside from general ideas. Flat frequency response..etc. None of these measurements will show you "sound quality"
 They can only show you signal quality and the two are not the same.

 As I mentioned already tube gear for instance will not have very good measurments for distortion but sounds very,very good depending on the gear.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what kind of difference do you hear between the ST/STX w/ headphones? I thought the STX had a messy soundstage compared to the ST, but the ST seems I dunno....too analytical? maybe it's just in my head. I've now fixed the slight volume imbalance of my DT770 by setting the volume to 75/73(instead of 76/76)...and it seems better._

 

 Can you listen with other headphones perhaps the two just aren't a goot match. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_also the 49720(whatever HA or NA) were really too analytical on top of the crazy ST clock...I'm starting to realize that there's a limit to distortion-free audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Yes, this is a idea I tried to suggest to you awhile back. The audio wil only get so clean and then after a point it will become none musical, sterile,cold and lifeless. Measures great, sounds awful.
 Same thing with opamps. They can have exceptional measurments but can sound very bad and the opposite also holds true. You need to test with your own ears.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_maybe I should have prolly kept the STX(I was told that some ppl prefer it over the ST), my DT770 imbalance was far less apparent....thankfully I'm in contact w/ beyer to get some new properly working drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 w/ a perfectly FR/volume matched pair of drivers, this ST should give 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

 Both are exceptional cards suggesting the STX suddenly sounds muddy and bad because of the ST is not accurate in anyway.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's like aesthetic plastic surgery, when you start one room....you end up having to do all the others 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've also asked Asus if they could let us input numeric values in the sliders...geez, I can't reach 74% w/ the mouse, this is ridiculous. hopefully they will finally offer bit-matched drivers, so I can get rid of that geeky-worthless GUI._

 

Little glitches that need ironing out, I would think they have quite a large list of suggestions and feedback from users.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So, would that mean that Voltage output would change according to gain ?
 Has anybody tried to measure the Voltage out from the onboard amp at different gain settings ?_

 

I have never seen any measurements of voltage or current in relation to the headphone output of the STX/ST other then what would be avialble in the specs sheets.

 Here is the spec sheet perhaps the information you want is in there: TPA6120A2

 Hope that helps.


----------



## leeperry

well I've put the headphones backward on my ears, set them to 76/76 and set the foobar DSP to reverse the stereo channels....and I still find it annoying in the left cup. I don't know what to think anymore. need to run more tests.

 I'm not becoming deaf in the left ear, I've asked several friends and they also found the left ear to sound "muddy"(easy to notice on "take a walk on the wild side", even on external mp3 players)...all I know is that I enjoyed the STX a hell lot, but this ST not so much tbh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I did several switches, and the STX had a messy stereo stage compared to the ST...maybe this uber-accurate clock is just too darn accurate for my little rusty ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the FR difference is as follow : 



 thanks for you help anyway


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1364 as buffer and the NA/HA as I/V would be a very pleasing combo I would think.. ROBSCIX, any chance you can test such a combo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

These are quick tests done earlier today using speakers and a class D amplifier. They are subjective impressions on what I heard using these configuration of opamps with my ears and my gear. Your personal testing may relate different sonic qualities to you. Just take them as what they are subjective impressions.

*LT1364CN8 for I/V and LME49720HA's for Buffer*
 To note, my HA's are instaleld in adapters.
 I tested for songs from different genre's to get a good impression of how musical this configuraiton is.

Subjective Opinion

 Bass is good, tight but punchy. Maybe be a bit heavy for some systems May need to eq it a bit, great for hi hop.
 The trebles are clear and detailed. No harhness present.
 Very expressive with guitars and amplfiers adding that edge to the tube amplifiers.
 Vocals are upfront and not veiled.
 There is great insturment seperation and no noticable blurring.
 There is a great deal of micro details which relay more of the spaciousness and reverb present in the track. 
 sounstage is very wide and pretty deep on this gear.

*LT1057CN8 for I/V and LME49720 HA's for Buffer*

Subejctive Opinion

 Bass, is a bit more pronounced then with the 1364 but it is more controlled and tighter. Sounds great for hip-hop and rap tracks.
 Trebles are more pronounced also with greater detail again no real harness present.
 Transients are more noticable such as cymbals -they have more charachter.
 Soundstage is nice and wide and vocals are clear and upfront.
 Great deal of clarity and detail but there is no harshness or "grittiness" to the sound.


 My personal taste in audio would take this combo over the 1364/LME if I had to choose between the two configurations only. That is not to say the LT1364 doesn't sound good also for a buffer.
 The 1364 or LT1057 may be a good opamp for those that find three LM/LME's too harsh and bass heavy. These units seem to tame some of those negative aspects.

 Hope this helps.


----------



## leeperry

I always come back to the conclusion that the stereo image is more accurate than anything I've heard before on the ST! as Burson puts it : Burson Clock
  Quote:


 Jitter Error has only been identified as a deficiency in the last couple of years, therefore any CD player that’s more than two to three years old will not have a low jitter clock in it 
 

crossfeed seems to be the solution...then my left ear doesn't feel "funny"/deaf anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 crossfeed exists for this very reason, to allow your brain not believing that it's become half-deaf 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 To help reduce listening fatigue caused by the unnatural stereo image provided by headphones, Crossfeed processes the left and right channels of stereo audio signals with a filter that mimics the sound absorption characteristics of the human head. After running through this filter, it then mixes a delayed portion of the left and right channels with each other to simulate the delay that occurs when listening to audio signals through stereo speakers positioned approximately 60 degrees apart from each other. The effect is subtle. 
 

I think that :
 -the STX gives a muddy stereo image compared to the ST, due to higher jitter
 -the ST gives such a wide and clear stereo image, that it makes my brain feel uneasy and dizzy on headphones. 

 again, as burson puts it :
  Quote:


 The effect of the clock is instant [..] By reducing the jitter error, you will hear clearer positioning, also details are further refined vocally and instrumentally. Sound stage and positioning will improve noticeably and that includes *deeper sound stage *and darker background. 
 

crossfeed brings back humanity into this cold hearted computer audio...I've not become half-cyborg just yet


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, well effects such as crossfeed are like any other effect. some like them and some do not.


----------



## leeperry

yes...well my left ear doesn't feel deaf anymore, and the soundstage is out of this world. me like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: I should add that I'm left handed, so this is actually my left "director" ear...just like we all have a director eye.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Why would you feel like your deaf in the left ear? The response should be balanced.
 If your frequency response is still producing a measurment like the one you showed earlier with the one side way off, you probably need a new card not a plugin.


----------



## leeperry

in my first RMAA measurements, I goofed up....but in the latest everything's cool..right?

 well, we all have a director eye and a director ear(not sure of translation). anyway, I'm left-handed and when my brain gets this pure stereo signal...it feels half-deaf.

 adding crossfeed fixes the glitch, as intended : "Crossfeed processes the left and right channels of stereo audio signals with a filter that mimics the sound absorption characteristics of the human head."

 my brain simply wasn't ready for pure stereo on headphones. anyway, I don't feel half-deaf anymore and this ST finally sounds great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 this science has a name...it's called psychoacoustics, don't play w/ matches otherwise you'll get burned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 headphones are not a natural thing, and w/ such low jitter even less...anyway, I'll try like this for a few days...but my left ear doesn't feel cotton-filled anymore


----------



## ROBSCIX

Whatever works for you.


----------



## leeperry

indeed! and the stock op-amps have killer bass...no that overly bright bass-shy 49720NA sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 bad recordings sound fine on the 2114D, they sound totally unbearable on the 49720 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I've given up on EQ...they all ruin the harmonics. there's 2 spikes at 6.4/10K due to my outer ears resonances, my brain DSP will take care of these 2 spikes, the hell w/ it!


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_indeed! and the stock op-amps have killer bass...no that overly bright bass-shy 49720HA sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

What? For me, on the STX, headphone out, the HA's have almost surgically clear and precise treble without being fatiguing in any way. The bass goes deep while being controlled and punchy with great detail. The NA's, however, have what I would describe as slightly exaggerated (though nice) treble and lack support in the bass department.

 Or are you talking about some other combination? Though of course I have a different set of cans, ears and preferences...


----------



## leeperry

oops, I made a typo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yes my bad, the bass on the HA was very strong(too much maybe?)... but the trebles sounded muffled as hell. The trebles were as bright and detailed as can be on the NA, but the low end bass response simply lacked(on the NA again).

 I've discussed w/ Emmanuel Piat(who writes this kind of book when he's bored : IEEE Xplore - Login ), he's a sound engineer, but so much more too.

 anyway, I've gathered his thoughts about op-amps here : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5838585-post72.html

 I think he's right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll try the few op-amp samples I've ordered, but I think the 5532/2114 is what the music was made for in the first place. just a theory, but I know Emmanuel is pretty much always right


----------



## Cynips

Yeah, I read your summary about that and maybe Piat's thoughts are right. Some of my music doesn't sound very enjoyable now though I've entitled that to the revealing character of the 49720HA's. I'll probably be sticking with these HA's anyway because to me the trebles don't sound muffled in any way - just very neutral as opposed to the NA's that sound overly lush and fluffy though I can see how this could be preferred by some, especially on a different setup with a different syngergy. I don't find the bass too strong, rather powerful in a restrained, controlled way.

 In any case I'll have to get hold of a pair of adapters for the HA's before I do any more testing. I ordered samples of the LT1057 and LT1358 a couple of days ago. Hopefully LT will accept my request.


----------



## leeperry

yes, the 49720 digs too hard in my opinion....a lot of my music was unbearable on these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 like the LPCM lossless track on the Pulp Fiction BD, it was catching WAY too much noise...I'm not sure you wanna catch all the hiss/noise/artefacts from the op-amps that were in the equipment that was used at that time.

 the 49720 gold digging is great on HD audio, but anything sub-par is simply hard to stand.

 yes, I'm awaiting the LT1358 and OPA2111 as well


----------



## 12Bass

Do you mean OPA2211A? I've got one here that I haven't tried yet..... must get to it!


----------



## leeperry

nope, I really mean 2111

 I was really hot for the LT1469, when I read a review on a french forum and here on head-fi as well : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/lit...olling-304261/

 basically the 1469 appears to be like the 4562, uber accurate trebles and bass shy. this guy says that the 2111 sounds great, lemme find out


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah, I read your summary about that and maybe Piat's thoughts are right. Some of my music doesn't sound very enjoyable now though I've entitled that to the revealing character of the 49720HA's. I'll probably be sticking with these HA's anyway because to me the trebles don't sound muffled in any way - just very neutral as opposed to the NA's that sound overly lush and fluffy though I can see how this could be preferred by some, especially on a different setup with a different syngergy. I don't find the bass too strong, rather powerful in a restrained, controlled way.

 In any case I'll have to get hold of a pair of adapters for the HA's before I do any more testing. I ordered samples of the LT1057 and LT1358 a couple of days ago. Hopefully LT will accept my request._

 

I did some tests yesterday using the LT1358 and LT1057..they were just subjective listening tests but may be helpful.. few pages back.
 The response also has a great deal to do with your headphones/speakers and of course personal taste.
 Been testing out the LME497210's for the past few days, I find they sound better then the 720's. I use the line outs so I also have a buffer to help tune the sound further towards the sound I like. 
 Enjoy your testing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *12Bass* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean OPA2211A? I've got one here that I haven't tried yet..... must get to it!_

 

Don't forget the OPA211. Many have been getting great results with these. 
 I soldered up a few the other night but have not got around to testing them yet. A associate told me they are hard to stabalize, I will have to see.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I did some tests yesterday using the LT1358 and LT1057..they were just subjective listening tests but may be helpful.. few pages back.
 The response also has a great deal to do with your headphones/speakers and of course personal taste.
 Been testing out the LME497210's for the past few days, I find they sound better then the 720's. I use the line outs so I also have a buffer to help tune the sound further towards the sound I like. 
 Enjoy your testing._

 

I read about your impressions about these opamps which is part why I thought I'd give them a go. And, yes, I am aware of your sound being influenced by the buffer, etc. but it's a start. Appreciate the input.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


 sampleconf*rm@ti.com <sampleconf*rm@ti.com>
 Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 12:00 AM 
 To: leeperry

 Thank you for recently requesting semiconductor device samples from Texas Instruments. This email confirms receipt of your request. The status of each device is as indicated below:

 Part Number Pb-Free/Green Qty Status
 OPA2111KP Green 3 3 item shipped on 07/09/2009 
 

they shipped them the day before I asked for them....now if that's not some serious mind power, I actually asked for them right when I got this email


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read about your impressions about these opamps which is part why I thought I'd give them a go. And, yes, I am aware of your sound being influenced by the buffer, etc. but it's a start. Appreciate the input._

 

Give use your impressions when your done your testing as it seems many here are interested in what various LT opamps sound like.


----------



## leeperry

apparently the AD823 is also pretty good(and there's samples available too) : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/qui...ad8066-242125/

 they didn't reply to my email yet, I'd love to try some of their chips


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, many AD opamps are great for audio and suggested by many. I have quite a few Analog Devices opamps and they are some great units.


----------



## leeperry

alright, I'll look into my options.
 anyway, I've put back the 4562NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...they seem to sound less harsh than the 49720(I know National says they're the exact same)...I couldn't stand the distorted veiled trebles of the 2114D anymore tbh. I know it's "wrong" but I don't care! they sound too lofi to my taste 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know my card isn't faulty, it's just that I need more bassy op-amps...and less revealing in the upper spectrum.

 I think what put me off is that ST clock gives a huge soundstage, and so do the 4562/49720....so it's really not natural in the end, some slight crossfeed fixes the problem altogether 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I hope the 2111 won't take forever to show up..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Try OPA2227, great bass opamp with bit less detailed highs. These are great to use for a subwoofer channel. Other Burr-Brown opamps may give you the sound your looking for such as the OPA2227,OPA2134,OPA2132...or the OPA2111


----------



## leeperry

yep, when I was looking at the OPA2132 I read about the 2227...especially "PROFESSIONAL AUDIO EQUIPMENT" in its possible applications. but TI won't sample it, and ordering from ebay might not the best option....and we can get tons of these chips for free, so ya know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well, the OPA2111 are in the mail...and wherever I go, I only read great testimonials about it...which seems dubious considering its very low bandwidth/slew rate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'll dare to say that the 4562/49720 don't work on the ST, it's a double soundstage enlargement!


----------



## ROBSCIX

You have to use your own ears because they were tested using other circuits and other gear. Specs sheets only give you a vague idea ifyou have the educaiton or know how to understand them... The bandwidth and slewrate only need to be so high to handle audio. Try them, you may or may not like them.

 The LM/LME's work fine in my ST when I use them


----------



## chinesekiwi

mmm.....LT1057's it is then.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_mmm.....LT1057's it is then._

 

IMO, they are warmer. It will depend on your gear also.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LM/LME's work fine in my ST when I use them_

 

talk about brain burn-in, heh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the stock 2114D were perfectly easy on my ears w/ 3%/1ms crossfeed in foobar...but the upper spectrum and the SS just plain sucked.

 now I'm w/ the 4562HA w/ 15%/1ms crossfeed...I'm completely stunned, bass seems better than the 49720, trebles are still sparkling but the SS is just crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I still think that the ST clock creates the kind of soundstage your brain needs to get used to on headphones....there's no way in hell I could use it w/ the 4562/49720 w/o any crossfeed, everything sounds hard-pan as hell otherwise.

 anyway, even mp3's sound mindblowing..and 24/96 HD audio is the icing on the cake.

 I could use a 4562 w/ less trebles and a tad more low end bass...but the specs of the 2111 really stink, this chip was made in 1983


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO, they are warmer. It will depend on your gear also._

 

I don't mind losing out on soundstage a tad for that extra gain in SQ.

 Gear = Rockhopper M^3 (SS amp) --> DT880/600.

 Got my AD700's for gaming = plently of soundstage.
 Will probably leave the default LM4562NA as the buffer for now.
 I always prefer quality bass > quantity of bass but of course quality + quantity = best


----------



## leeperry

just wanted to add that I've seen ericj saying that he had a whole bunch of 4562, and that they pretty much all had a slighty different sound color?! I guess they sort the waffers by quality, and have mergins...maybe the high voltage versions like the 49860 are actually 4562 that didn't make it because they needed more power 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so as all IC's, op-amps are batch dependent I think..I really don't think that 4562NA and 49720NA are 100% identical..anyway, National gives the same specs for the whole family, and the HA are a far cry from the NA.

http://www.audiocom-uk.com/mod_inner.asp?id=67

  Quote:


 This op-amp is essentially the same as the LM4562 but on A/B tests we have found the LME49720 is less “Hi-Fi” sounding. 
 

Hi-Fi is better than uber-analytical to the most extreme..

*PS:* actually the wider the SS the better, so you can crossfeed....your brain craves for crossfeed


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yep, when I was looking at the OPA2132 I read about the 2227...especially "PROFESSIONAL AUDIO EQUIPMENT" in its possible applications. but TI won't sample it, and ordering from ebay might not the best option....and we can get tons of these chips for free, so ya know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well, the OPA2111 are in the mail...and wherever I go, I only read great testimonials about it...which seems dubious considering its very low bandwidth/slew rate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but I'll dare to say that the 4562/49720 don't work on the ST, it's a double soundstage enlargement! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

TI has the dual channel ver the OPA2277 for sample which enjoyed alot. But it sad that they dont have the single channel ver for sample.


----------



## leeperry

hah, the bandwidth/slew rate are half of the 2111...which are already amazingly low!

 anyway I've received the 2111, I'll look into them...but I'm stunned by the 4562NA and 15%/1ms crossfeeding in foobar, bass is better than the 49720 I previously tried...and the SS is so damn huge that I can crossfeed as hell, and my brain literally loves that. it gives a not too shabby room ambience binaural sound


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't mind losing out on soundstage a tad for that extra gain in SQ.

 Gear = Rockhopper M^3 (SS amp) --> DT880/600.

 Got my AD700's for gaming = plently of soundstage.
 Will probably leave the default LM4562NA as the buffer for now.
 I always prefer quality bass > quantity of bass but of course quality + quantity = best 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Post your impressions when you get them and have a chance to test them for a few days.


----------



## awesom-o

anyone tried the new windows 7 beta driver yet? (out july 6th)


----------



## leeperry

ah, thanks for the heads up! so that's why I was recently confirmed that the bit-perfect drivers would show up soon...they had to finish the W7 drivers before.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *awesom-o* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone tried the new windows 7 beta driver yet? (out july 6th)_

 


 I will give them a try today and post my impressions.


----------



## gurubhai

I am using the new windows seven drivers.
 They solve the control centre issues.


----------



## dex85

^same with me, in W7 control centre volume slider is working now. but i noticed strange think. it seems like headphone output at same volume setting is somewhat quieter than it was with vista drivers. anyone else is experiencing this?


----------



## awesom-o

just installed them myself. solved the control center issues for me too.

 I had to uninstall previous drivers and reboot before the new ones would install. 

 SQ - It might be a little clearer and a little harsher in the trebles. Might also just be that placebo effect..


----------



## leeperry

anyone knows what the 3 gain settings in the drivers actually do? they mess w/ the op-amps gain? or w/ the TI headphones amp gain?

 I used to prefer the mid setting, but now I tend to prefer the highest one(which measured slightly better in RMAA as well)...and LT told me "_The LT1469-2 is a faster version of the LT1469 but has a minimum gain requirement of 2 for stability_."

 what's the I/V op-amps "gain" on the STX/ST 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 anyway, I've put back the 49720NA....the bass is duller than the OPA2111 but the mids are just so sexy, even though the soundstage is a wide mess and the highs are pretty harsh..still the highs sound more refined than both the 49720HA and the 4562NA to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm waiting for 5 refs from LT :
 LT1355CN8 
 LT1028ACN8 
 LT1364CN8 
 LT1229CN8 
 LT1358IN8

 if none of them beats the 49720NA, I might try the AD797BRZ on DIP8 adapters and the LME49860NA...then I might just call it a day and stop complaining, this soundcard sounds pretty damn fine w/ the 49720NA and 15%/1ms crossfeed in foobar/KS 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* apparently the line-out is louder than the HP out(even on the highest setting) : http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mul...nce-stx_4.html

 but the ST crosstalk RMAA measurements on the line-out are worse than on the STX, so I might be a good option to stick to the HP out on the ST..


----------



## ROBSCIX

Changes the gain on the Heapdhone amplifier chip.


----------



## leeperry

yeah, that's what I thought....but it increases the bass response! maybe there's too much bass in the highest mode anyway.

 and I guess the LT1469-2 is doomed to fail on these cards...I don't think it "has a minimum gain requirement of 2"

 anyway, the 49720NA is really mind blowing in movies(using a 5.1>stereo binaural mixing matrix)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Really it shouldn't change the spectrum at all. The only aspect that is changing is the gain of the signal not the signal itself.
 I am unsure of the actual gain of the circuit right off hand.
 Try them out and see....


----------



## leeperry

I think it makes the sound more agressive/compressed, so the bass is punchier...but then even the low mids turn agressive as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I'm a bit bored of shutting down my system, put new opamps....feel awe about the changes, then always find that they lack against the 4562NA/49720NA after some more careful listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm doubtful whether these chips can be topped..w/o going discrete anyway.


----------



## Bojamijams

So what happened to all the HA hoopla? They're not good anymore?


----------



## leeperry

well, try them...let us know what you think 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the bass is louder than on the NA, and I loved them on my 2 months old STX, but the trebles seemed less refined than the NA on my brand new ST..

 I've given them to a friend, maybe I'll try them again in a while....but first I'll try these LT chips...apparently the LT1358 and the LT1028ACN8 are killer parts, it's time for me to find out what I might have been missing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but the 49720NA seems to get everything right, except the low end bass...that's a very tad bloated(compared to the OPA2111), but this is uber nitpicking


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it makes the sound more agressive/compressed, so the bass is punchier...but then even the low mids turn agressive as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I'm a bit bored of shutting down my system, put new opamps....feel awe about the changes, then always find that they lack against the 4562NA/49720NA after some more careful listening 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm doubtful whether these chips can be topped..w/o going discrete anyway._

 

Some phones can sound a bit different if they are under powered...etc.
 Depends on your personal taste. Not everybody likes the LM4562/LME49720
 depends a great deal on your gear and ears.


----------



## leeperry

I've never read ppl complaining about these chips...except when they say that they are far too detailed(hence fatiguing), but that's what makes them so enjoyable to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you're not in front of the music, you're in it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 about the gain settings, it's the same for a friend w/ the STX...he has a DX1k and a CD3k.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have heard people complain about these chips or the LM4562 saying the mids..etc are cold ..etc..etc.
 I like them personally and have been using them since they were originally released.


----------



## leeperry

my question remains: can the 4562/49720NA be topped? I would say that their strong point is the mids anyway...they're surreal


----------



## dex85

i too keep getting back to 49720NA. with some music i prefer warmer op-ams, but former's soundstage is a bliss (although not will all songs). i think i'm slowly becoming a soundstage freak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 some friendly user from other forum will solder HA onto adapter for me. i could use more bass, so this could be fine choice for me.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_my question remains: can the 4562/49720NA be topped? I would say that their strong point is the mids anyway...they're surreal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

That is up to you. If you like them, stick with them.
 Somebosy may say to you "try these I think they are better" you may not like them though. This is all about personal taste and subjective opinion.


----------



## leeperry

I read someone saying on a french forum that is the 5532 is 0%, then the 4562 is 70% and the burson 100%.

 there's always something better...but for the ridiculous price(w/o wasting 100 EUR on 2 burson), the 4562 seems untouchable.

 I also read some ppl saying that the 4562 is predictable, yes! you can easily predict than the better your music has been recorded/mastered...the more mind blowing the SQ will get 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the uber-low THD rates are most delightful w/ movies in 24Hz using Reclock


----------



## ROBSCIX

There are a few users with discrete opamps on their STX/ST.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

Is it possible to feed the optical in from the PS3 in to the card and listen via the headphones?


----------



## dex85

there is only analog line-in input, no digital inputs.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

Since the STX comes with an S/PDIF adaptor, can't that just go in the line-in where mic would normally go and take the signal from that?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are a few users with discrete opamps on their STX/ST._

 

it's hard to justify US $150 for two op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and then you have to take off the EMI shield, and be imaginative to fit them in your case...

 anyway, I've found a bad review of the 4562 from one of these well respected members : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3909591-post12.html

 OMG the mids are colorless, this can't be!


----------



## 12Bass

FWIW, when compared with most other opamps, although not the most resolving chip, I found the LM4562 did seem to do a better job of reproducing the important midrange area, where the primary overtones of the "voice" of each instrument lies.


----------



## leeperry

what is really striking on the 4562/49720 is the amazingly low THD rates...I use Reclock on all my movies to watch them in vanilla glitch-free 24.000Hz(as intended), and the distortion added by the resampling process is simply inaudible. the THD is much higher on the burson...no wonder these National chips have been hyped to death on every internet forum since they've been released.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OnceLostHorizon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Since the STX comes with an S/PDIF adaptor, can't that just go in the line-in where mic would normally go and take the signal from that?_

 

i'm not sure what you mean. S/PDIF cinch on STX is output only. you would have to use some D/A device to convert signal from PS3 optical to analog and then plug it in STX's line-in. so if you don't want to drop money on D/A converter just use PS3 analog stereo output.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's hard to justify US $150 for two op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and then you have to take off the EMI shield, and be imaginative to fit them in your case...

 anyway, I've found a bad review of the 4562 from one of these well respected members : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3909591-post12.html

 OMG the mids are colorless, this can't be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

If your interested in the discrete go with the Audio-GD Earth unit. Same as the Burson opamp from what I hear.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm not sure what you mean. S/PDIF cinch on STX is output only. you would have to use some D/A device to convert signal from PS3 optical to analog and then plug it in STX's line-in. so if you don't want to drop money on D/A converter just use PS3 analog stereo output._

 

Thanks for clarifying, as long as I can hook up my PS3 to it, I'll be happy. I'll be picking up the card tmw.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your interested in the discrete go with the Audio-GD Earth unit. Same as the Burson opamp from what I hear._

 

apparently the new burson is far better than any Audio-GD parts...and I'd hate to think "what if I bought the genuine burson in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




".

 it's a good guess that a $75 carefully assembled discrete op-amp would do better than a $3 chip....I loved the STX but the stereo image was kinda messy, the ST is the same w/ a crystal clear stereo image this time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe what's holding back the current design is some killer discrete op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ahhhhh, the hell w/ it, maybe I'll waste 96 EUR shipped on ebay for 2 burson's....they say that once you've listened to them, you become instantly amnesic about how much you paid for them


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can hook your PS3 up through Line-input but the card has no direct digital input. You need another device in between to convert the signal as was suggested.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_apparently the new burson is far better than any Audio-GD parts...and I'd hate to think "what if I bought the genuine burson in the first place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





".

 it's a good guess that a $75 carefully assembled discrete op-amp would do better than a $3 chip....I loved the STX but the stereo image was kinda messy, the ST is the same w/ a crystal clear stereo image this time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 maybe what's holding back the current design is some killer discrete op-amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ahhhhh, the hell w/ it, maybe I'll waste 96 EUR shipped on ebay for 2 burson's....they say that once you've listened to them, you become instantly amnesic about how much you paid for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

The Earth is the same as the Burson...Information suggests Audio-GD makes the Burson units. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Talked with people who have tested both and always get the same information...Same units. Your cash do as you will.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


 Thanks for clarifying, as long as I can hook up my PS3 to it, I'll be happy. I'll be picking up the card tmw. 
 

no problem. if you happen to have some good A/V receiver, you should use the PS3 optical out to A/V and then 2xcinch->1/4'' jack cable from 'Tape out' to STX line-in. PS3 AV multi out is complicated, you would have to use adapters and i doubt its DAC section is any good.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Earth is the same as the Burson...Information suggests Audio-GD makes the Burson units. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Talked with people who have tested both and always get the same information...Same units. Your cash do as you will._

 

humm....indeed, on a french forum a guy compared the Earth to the older burson and he said that the PCB's were perfectly identical.
 whether there's a big diff. between the older and the newer burson is another matter altogether....yet two Earth + 2 extensions is half price over the new burson's.

 the only question that remains is whether the grounds need to be connected...and where?


----------



## leeperry

from burson:
  Quote:


 "Our new opamp is far more than just a cosmetic change. We work hard with the recording industry in the last 12 months and implement some of the suggestion into the design sonically speaking it is far better sound stage and positioning compared to the older opamp. Textures also improve noticeably other quality like lower DC is very important to use in I/V stage or power amp. 
 

and some french guy tried the AD797BRZ, he said that he prefered the LME49710...but the Earth even further.


----------



## ROBSCIX

There are a few guys using discrete on these cards and they get rave reviews from them.


----------



## leeperry

and where do you connect the Earth ground then? and the burson seem far more pratical to setup on the Essence..


----------



## ROBSCIX

To a ground point. I just use the screw for the PCI slot. Simple enough...


----------



## leeperry

I read some ppl saying that depending on where you plug the ground, it might yield slightly different results....apparently a good point to use would be the RCA ground. ah well, YMMV I guess.


----------



## ROBSCIX

PCI slot ground, RCA ground. Same thing.

 Some people don't connect the GND wire at all.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I read some ppl saying that depending on where you plug the ground, it might yield slightly different results...._

 

Ahahahahahaaa... that made my day


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

If you have problems whit grounding then you should use burson opamps...they dont need it.))


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ahahahahahaaa... that made my day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

well there's a lot of magical thinking surrounding op-amps....I haven't tried many parts yet, but I wouldn't have a problem calling the 49720NA sound "magic"....and someone who reviewed the Earth OPA in the OP of this thread said that "there's something magic about discrete op-amps"


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

I think the burson version 2 opamps are different from the earth opamps. 
 The first version of burson opamps where the same as earths!!!


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

I just want to check something and the burson guys changed the opamp site.
 Check it out. There has being a test done!
 Here zhe link:Burson Opamp PC Tuner Review (Eng)


----------



## GWorlDofSPACE

*Here is the article:*

 Email: Bursonaudio@yahoo.com.au
 Burson
 ® Melbourne
 Audio
 Home.About Us.Creations.Articles.Sales.News.Playmates Gallery.

 All right reserved by Burson Audio Melbourne Pty Ltd

 Burson™ Audio is a registered trade mark of Burson Audio Melbourne

 Discrete Opamp Testing

 Let's go on to listening to discrete opamps, starting with the Chinese brand Audio-GD's. The first tested configuration previews the two "Earths" in the gain stage and the Moon at the buffer stage.



 With regard to any previous setup base on IC, we can all of a sudden say that the digital sound has completely faded: listening is now less of a strain; there are more dynamics and fluidity, even from the combined LM617/LT1364, and there is better control from the soundstage, with varied and clearer levels.



 The "Earths" are certainly very neutral, like their definition. But on the whole, they sound a bit rough: the sound, completely on fire and precise, is, however, a bit impoverished, with the main notes very much in evidence, and lacking in harmonic tone, a fact that one is able to notice, above all, in the acoustic pieces. Moreover, the "Moon" has something that is more or less looking to imitate the softness of a valve sound, however, resulted in a certain kind of "gumminess" in music reproduction, especially in the low portion of the sound scale. In a word, there is improvement with respect to IC's, in some areas, but at the same time there is a worsening in other areas. The setup sounds a bit like it is "crawling," manipulating the sound & signal, instead of just limiting itself to reduce signal loss and preserve as much as possible what comes from the source. They lowered the high notes, and redefining the low notes; in short, altering the listening experience.



 Going on to the next setup, the "OPA Sun" placed in the "Moon's" place presented a change in the listening experience, but not the final result. "Sun," like its name indicates, is more brilliant and dynamic, but in the end, it is overly characterized as being the opposite of "Moon," being exceptionally sharp and metallic-sounding, on the high notes, and too dry on the low notes. Generally speaking, the same coarseness is noted in the treatment of the musical message, which lacks finesse, granularity of detail, and tone, almost as if the maker has wanted to create more products to market but spent less attention on audiophile graded designing.



 We finally ended our testing with the setup that takes into account three Burson Audio OpAmp 101's.

 We were greatly surprised; the OpAmps have, in themselves, the best characteristics that were seen, whether it be with the IC's, or the Audio-GD's, but with a subtlety and neutrality that none of the previous setups had been able to demonstrate. Detail, dynamics, transparency, three dimensionality, power united with control of the bass notes, and energy united with the freshness of the high notes, with the middle notes sharp and bombastic, right at the right time, and a great many natural and present voices.



 The music materializes in front of us, with singers and instrumentalists who seem to be present in the listening room. Listening is pleasant and natural, the balance is optimal, and the grain fine: as an example, it is possible to hear the instruments' "tactility," the pianoforte's chords, or those from a bow, the pizzicato of the guitar, the low note harmonies; it is all reproduced, and highly differentiated, and is extremely easy to use and enjoy.



 Integrated VS Discrete-What is the best choice for our audio catalog? Final Conclusion.

 From the first "Creative's" of so many years ago, a lot of ground has been covered with regard to the reproduction of audio on PC's. And if the Taiwan giant still considers itself to be Number One, based on the volume of worldwide sales, having the advantage of turning to the largest share of consumers, that of videogamers, certainly amounts to nothing more than considering itself a reference point as far as computer High Fidelity.



 In this field, there are new and qualitatively strong competitors, among which Audiotrack and ASUS have been able to earn prominent positions, by proposing the two catologs, which today are perhaps more complex and better sounding than anything else on the market, with a cost for the end customer that is rather low if one thinks about how one can buy them with less than 20 euro. And instead, some CD reader would not be found at the same price, nor any pre amplifier of similar quality.



 This development was possible, in part, because of the availability of integrated operational amplifiers (IC opamps) that can generate a good sound quality while keeping the prices as low as possible. The rest has come about because, due to their diverse market presence, they are able to have a trademark, like ASUS, as far as any HiFi brand is concerned, which will not create a third of the sales volume, while being restricted, however, to keeping the prices of their own products high to achieve a margin of acceptable profit, also because of production costs, in view of the amount of pieces created, and however, of ordered component parts stock, which will obviously be greater for HiFi manufacturers.



 However, as we have seen, or to put it more appropriately, as we have heard, IC opamps have undoubtedly contributed to bringing quality audio to a greater portion of the public; on the other hand, they are not totally exempt from criticisms that many experts in the sector have quickly taken up again, as much as they can. In fact, this qualitative efficiency, which might seem, on the face of it, to be optimal, conceals, from the technical limitations, a certain character of digital freshness and crudeness in handling the musical message that the best discrete creations do not have.



 However, it is necessary to clarify a concept; we are talking about diminishing the efficiency of the sound, not of glaring macro details, even if obviously, upon listening, the harmony of the improvements is perceptible. In fact, many consumers, and less so experts, are usually induced to expect that the differences will be enormous, while many obviously depend on so many common factors: the quality of the HiFi system, the effectiveness of the sources used, and above all, the listener's experience, his or her awareness of the music, and the sound of the live instruments.



 The OpAmp's used in our tests guarantee, for whomever does not have particularly developed systems, or who simply do not have high expectations, whether because of their ability for discernment of musical awareness, a good listen that can be had for just a few euro: in fact, one goes from 1.99 euro for 2134, to 5.77 euro for LT1364, passing on to 3.14 euro for 2227, 3.50 euro for 6172, and 4.99 euro for LM4562. The discrete systems cost considerably more: the Audio "GD-OPA Earth," stereo version (for this test, all the amplifiers used were stereo amplifiers, and not mono, because the catalog project required that), costs about 17 euro, the "Moon," about 18 euro, and the "Sun," around 21.50 euro, while Burson Audio actually comes to 43.60 euro.



 If it is worthwhile or not to pay the difference is difficult to say, a priori, above all if it is directed at a non-expert public. The cost/quality relationship is, in fact, not linear, that is to say, one is certainly able to affirm that Burson sounds 10 times better than the LM4562. Still, the differences are appreciable and clear, obviously better, and this, face to face, however, with a low cost, one is allowed to make a qualitative leap as far as the appropriate equipment is concerned, obviously on the condition that it already be of high quality: in fact, one cannot transform a reader, or an economical and inferior amplifier, into a jewel of musical reproduction, substituting for an amplified stadium.



 However, in line with principles, all the integrated systems (IC opamps) have worked well. Decisively speaking, our preference is the combined LM6172/LT1364. Disappointing instead are the Audio-GD's that, in some aspects, sound better than the integrated systems, but which seemed shady, and a bit of an over-priced. 



 However, the best definitely turned out to be the Burson Audio's, which demonstrated that they possessed high-level characteristics, and guarantee a significant leap in quality for a good system. For this reason, the staff at PC Tuner was unable not to grant it The Best Product Award to this product.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *GWorlDofSPACE* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just want to check something and the burson guys changed the opamp site.
 Check it out. There has being a test done!
 Here zhe link:Burson Opamp PC Tuner Review (Eng)_

 

getting free samples from a manufacturer can easily turn heads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 this test is on the burson website, it's not like they're gonna bash their new product! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it's funny to see that all the photos and testimonials at the bottom of this page....are actually w/ the old design : Burson Opamp

 I need to find an independent review comparing burson v1/v2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS: *I've read on a french forum that the Moon might be prefered, because it works in Class A...and also the LT1028 would indeed be a major improvement over the 4562 in pretty much everything(soundstage/mids/trebles/bass)...geez!


----------



## taso89

I remember back when I had the Zero (with the Earth HDAM) it did no wrong; it brought the last 5-10% of the Zero that previously couldn't be achieved with other opamps without showing any flaws. Many raved about the Moon opamps later on. The stock Essence is still a big step up from the Zero w/ Earth opamp.

 The modules are, to my ears, the epitome of what can be achieved in an opamp circuit. It's just like when you go over ~$250 range of headphones, they're all great but they just have different flavors. Same with the opamp modules.

 I expect that they would do the same (bring out the last 5-10%) with the Essence.


----------



## leeperry

ok, but as long as we don't know the gain on ours cards....rolling op-amps will be a hit and miss : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4660869-post3.html


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, but as long as we don't know the gain on ours cards....rolling op-amps will be a hit and miss : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4660869-post3.html_

 

Circuit gain in this sense is usually a major concern when opamps are not unity gain stable.
 Some opamps will work fine for certain positions and but not for others.
 Some opamps make great I/V others make great integrator/buffers.
 Some will oscillate all to hell in the buffer position...etc.

 The more you work and use a certain model the more you learn where it can be used and not used.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember back when I had the Zero (with the Earth HDAM) it did no wrong; it brought the last 5-10% of the Zero that previously couldn't be achieved with other opamps without showing any flaws. Many raved about the Moon opamps later on. The stock Essence is still a big step up from the Zero w/ Earth opamp.

 The modules are, to my ears, the epitome of what can be achieved in an opamp circuit. It's just like when you go over ~$250 range of headphones, they're all great but they just have different flavors. Same with the opamp modules.

 I expect that they would do the same (bring out the last 5-10%) with the Essence._

 

There are quite a few guys around here using the OPA Earth for I/V...


----------



## taso89

Does anyone with Vista64 experience a loud screech through the line-outs occasionally? 

 It's like super loud scratchy noise that sometimes appears when a sound is played either in windows or foobar. Once the sound stops a high-pitch "eeeeee" remains until I switch the sample rate. I'm pretty sure the problem appears only on the 44.1khz setting in the Control Panel. I don't think I'm the only one having this problem:

ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- High Pitched "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" noise

 I didn't want to post this to scare anyone from getting this card but it's not acceptable when I have a headphone amp connected and it nearly blows my eardrums out. And it doesn't look like I'm the only one with this issue =\


----------



## Cynips

No, happens to me too and I seem to recall someone saying it happened when they opened a window though that's not my experience.

 And no, it's definitely not acceptable. Fortunately it hasn't happened while I've had my headphones on... yet.


----------



## taso89

I've never had it happen out of the headphone out but it's happened on my powered speakers the first time (scared the crap out of me) and has happened once or twice on the amp now.

 I've had it happen with a variety of sounds; at first it was a Windows sound, so I disabled those. Then I had it happen with a song on Foobar using ASIO, so I started using WASAPI. But this time it happened with WASAPI. I'm gonna leave the card on 48khz, hopefully won't happen again.

 I'm not sure if it's interference hitting a critical part (I do have a lot of problems with that with my guitar amp in this room), or a driver issue.. But I'm leaning towards drivers.


----------



## Bojamijams

I've never had any screeching noise happen to me on my STX yet...


----------



## leeperry

me neither, whatever the ST or the STX....only heard lot of background noise on 24/96 files if I set 44.1 or 48 in the drivers...and also on 24/192 even if I set it to 192 in the drivers. neither of these 2 cards can play 192KHz properly on XP SP3.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i'm not sure what you mean. S/PDIF cinch on STX is output only. you would have to use some D/A device to convert signal from PS3 optical to analog and then plug it in STX's line-in. so if you don't want to drop money on D/A converter just use PS3 analog stereo output._

 


 Just got my STX today and am blown away. However, I just wanted to clarify what you meant by PS3's analog output the card only accepts line in. So currently, my only option is to buy a digital to analog audio converter? Also, once i get my converter, how do I get it to output it through my headphones?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OnceLostHorizon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just got my STX today and am blown away. However, I just wanted to clarify what you meant by PS3's analog output the card only accepts line in. So currently, my only option is to buy a digital to analog audio converter? Also, once i get my converter, how do I get it to output it through my headphones?_

 

Get a adapter and connect your PS3 line outs to the cards Line inputs.
 What os the point of buying a DAC? You will still end up connecting to the line input.


----------



## oqvist

Not having to go through the hassle of booting up your noisy computer at the same time as the relatively quiet PS 3?... PS 3 have hurt my PC to the extreme by it´s silence. I had accepted the noise prior to using that lol Mainly for my speakers or the K701.

 You will also get some slight lag if that kind of things annoy you if you run through the computer. Unless it works way better then with the Elite Pro.. Even if you don´t detect delayed gun shots and such you subconsciously do. It can create increased stress levels just as having to much input lag.

 I got my Essence ST today and yes I like what I hear. I am using the windows 7 betas. Surely is basic drivers I am used to having all kind of luxury applications for my elite Pro... Media source 5 is the best media player I ever had. What are you using for 7 foobar? And is the bit perfect drivers released yet? I haven´t found any settings regarding that anyway. 

 Also the manual had surprisingly little info. What opamp is it it now again and which are the hottest upgrades 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Am in no rush I love what I hear so far... This is how I imagined tube sound would be. Have no real experience just some hybrid I didn´t like at all. Also it was great to see the difference in size on the capacitators and such on this and the Elite Pro. Everything x2 including the power connector.


----------



## leeperry

get some LME49720NA, these will blow your mind! around US $10 for samples on the manufacturer's website..well spent money I tell you


----------



## oqvist

8-dip I suppose and do you need three of them?. Do national ship worldwide? Also is it only for the headphone output? I discovered that my radiator fan make it impossible for me to attach not only the mega neutrix connector of my Pro 900 but also the smaller on the K701 so line out is the only thing that works. I am a bit worried that I have to disassemble my entire water cooling setup which means taking my entire computer down in pieces to get access to it. I have been extremely lucky earlier with my Video card and audio cables just barely being able to snug in.


----------



## leeperry

"~NA" is DIP8 indeed. they do ship worlwide. there's 3 op-amps, 2 for I/V then it goes through the third one for the line-out, and through the TI HP amp for the HP out.


----------



## G~mann

I too never had any screeching noise happen to me on my STX yet...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_8-dip I suppose and do you need three of them?. Do national ship worldwide? Also is it only for the headphone output? I discovered that my radiator fan make it impossible for me to attach not only the mega neutrix connector of my Pro 900 but also the smaller on the K701 so line out is the only thing that works. I am a bit worried that I have to disassemble my entire water cooling setup which means taking my entire computer down in pieces to get access to it. I have been extremely lucky earlier with my Video card and audio cables just barely being able to snug in._

 

The STX and ST has three opamps. 
 The two back opamps are a mcthed set of JRC 2114D's. They are the I/V(Current(I) to Voltage(V)) converter section for the DAC. 
 The opamp chip ahead of these is a stock LM4562NA. This is a single ended buffer.
 If you change the opamps for the I/V this affects the sound quality for opamps and heaphones. If you change the buffer opamp, it affects the line outs only. There are many different opamps you can use that give improved sound for the STX/ST.


----------



## G~mann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX and ST has three opamps. 
 The two back opamps are a mcthed set of JRC 2114D's. They are the I/V(Current(I) to Voltage(V)) converter section for the DAC. 
 The opamp chip ahead of these is a stock LM4562NA. This is a single ended buffer.
 If you change the opamps for the I/V this affects the sound quality for opamps and heaphones. If you change the buffer opamp, it affects the line outs only. There are many different opamps you can use that give improved sound for the STX/ST._

 


 Do you mean changing the opamps for the I/V affects the sound quality for both the line out and headphones? Going one step further, would playing either line out or headphones burn-in the two I/V (JRC 2114D) opamps? Would playing line out burn-in the I/V opamps as well as the stock LM4562NA?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G~mann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you mean changing the opamps for the I/V affects the sound quality for both the line out and headphones? Going one step further, would playing either line out or headphones burn-in the two I/V (JRC 2114D) opamps? Would playing line out burn-in the I/V opamps as well as the stock LM4562NA?_

 

Yes, the DAC on the STX/ST needs a I/V section. Changing these opamps changes the output signature for both Line outs and headphones.
 The buffer, affects only the line outs.
 People have varying opinion on burn in. However, yes using line outs would "burn-in" all opamps on the card.
 Using the headphone would only "burn-in" the I/V as the buffer opamps is replaced by the headphone ampliifer chip in the circuit.


----------



## G~mann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ People have varying opinion on burn in. However, yes using line outs would "burn-in" all opamps on the card. Using the headphone would only "burn-in" the I/V as the buffer opamps is replaced by the headphone ampliifer chip in the circuit._

 

Do you mean that people have varying opinions on the relevance of burning in opamps? or people having varying opinions on the time required to complete burn-in? I replaced the JRC 2114Ds with LME49720NAs. Have have approx 30hrs use via headphone outs and 10hrs on the line outs. I realize that the "Placebo Effect" is powerful, but I believe I hear a difference today from when I first installed them.


----------



## taso89

Many people, even burn-in believers, will tell you that IC's don't have such a thing as "burn-in." I think the caps on the Essence did take some burning in, but I don't think opamps do (unless you use discrete ones, like from audio-gd).


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many people, even burn-in believers, will tell you that IC's don't have such a thing as "burn-in." I think the caps on the Essence did take some burning in, but I don't think opamps do (unless you use discrete ones, like from audio-gd)._

 

Agreed. I've never experienced any perceivable IC burn-in, despite being a firm believer in burn-in/break-in for many other components.


----------



## G~mann

So other components on the STX could have attributed to the change in sound? When purchased I listen for maybe an hour. Left it on overnight (closed cans) then listen approx 15 mins that morning. Left it on 10 hrs that day. came home, listen for 3 hours. Repeated the same sequence the next day. Could the difference I hear be attributed to the "burn in" of other components on the STX or is it that I am warming up or getting use to the sound signature. I would think the latter would be more likely if I had listen to the STX continuously as it "burn in" instead of in between 8+ hours of unattended "burn in" cyckes.


----------



## taso89

I would say it's the break-in of the many other analog and power components, such as the power input caps and the nice Nichicon caps on the card.


----------



## leeperry

in my opinion it takes a few weeks for these cards to really sound good....and the burn-in process of IC is very well known in the CPU world, where a CPU will reach more stable overclocks after proper break-in.

Google Translate

  Quote:


 An integrated circuit consists of layers of metal deposited on a silicon substrate. These contacts must have a low resistance, but sometimes the contact can be flawed, for reasons related to the effectiveness of the manufacturing process, and the transistor has to bear too high a resistance. 
 

it's not voodoo magic, it's called annealing: Annealing - Google Search


----------



## Kurotetsu

For those of you using the STX's built-in headamp, what are you using for volume control? Are you using an external preamp or the Windows volume control? 

 I Ask because I had heard using the Windows volume control is not a very good idea?

 EDIT:

 There's a good chance this has been asked and I missed it. If so, a simple link to the appropriate post would be appreciated.


----------



## taso89

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in my opinion it takes a few weeks for these cards to really sound good....and the burn-in process of IC is very well known in the CPU world, where a CPU will reach more stable overclocks after proper break-in.

Google Translate



 it's not voodoo magic, it's called annealing: Annealing - Google Search_

 

Really? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





CPU burn in, myth or reality? - PC Perspective Forums
http://www.xoxideforums.com/cpu-s/51...burn-your.html

 The only thing that people agree to is that it's probably the thermal paste settling in.

 @Kurotetsu:

 If you're using the built-in headamp, just use the Windows volume control. There's nothing wrong with doing that.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get a adapter and connect your PS3 line outs to the cards Line inputs.
 What os the point of buying a DAC? You will still end up connecting to the line input._

 

ok, so i got myself a Y adaptor today. atm this is how its setup

 PS3 AV cables ---> RCA female to 1/4" ----> STX (line in)

 while i have my 650s in the headphone jacks, but how do you actually get it to output the sound thru the headphones?


----------



## oqvist

For CPUs it´s just the thermal paste... That´s what everyone is referring to. With all my time overclocking I have never found one person that claims that a cpu overclock better after a whiles use... They clock the best once the thermal paste settled in and then you wear it down from that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 As for audio it takes time to get used to a new sound signature... That combined with what mood you are in etc. Will be interesting if I get the 8.35D monitor headphones. Those doesn´t change with burn in so hopefully it will ge me some idea exactly how much is you getting used to them


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OnceLostHorizon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok, so i got myself a Y adaptor today. atm this is how its setup

 PS3 AV cables ---> RCA female to 1/4" ----> STX (line in)

 while i have my 650s in the headphone jacks, but how do you actually get it to output the sound thru the headphones?_

 

you have to go to 'Xonar Audio Center' and change 'Analog Out' to 'Headphone'. on the right side will apear 'HP Advance Setting', you should change that to 'High Gain'.

 i would be using computer when listening to music though. with your current setup you are bypassing DAC section of your soundcard. PS3 is doing all digital-to-analog conversions. if i understand it right analog signal from STX line-in will be converted back to digital and to analog again, which won't help at all if the original analog signal is lacking in sound quality.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

yup, i've done all that, but when i play a game, scrolling with the menus, theres no sound. :s


----------



## dex85

in Audio Center go to Mixer->Record and press rectangle and square buttons above Line-in. i just tried it with my dvd player and was getting sound, it should work.


----------



## OnceLostHorizon

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in Audio Center go to Mixer->Record and press rectangle and square buttons above Line-in. i just tried it with my dvd player and was getting sound, it should work._

 

i love u so much.. no seriously!


----------



## dex85

^there are better external dacs with usb inputs out there but Essence STX is very good. a bargain for its price
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *OnceLostHorizon* 
_i love u so much.. no seriously!_

 

no need to go that far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 always glad to help


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The only thing that people agree to is that it's probably the thermal paste settling in._

 

hehe yeah, I guess there's always someone to say that everything's bs...and that the truth is somewhere else.

 I don't think it's too far stretched to say that caps, op-amps and headphones/speakers burn-in....it prolly boils down to whether or not you're a believer from your own personal experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not a cable believer myself, or actually I am but the opposite way


----------



## ROBSCIX

Some think it is burn in with opamps or other IC's. Others think it is just your ears getting used to the frequency response.

 The only way your going to know for usre is to do tests of your own.
 Speakers and headphones -That is mechanical burn-in they loosen up and work better over time. 
 That is not a far stretch, when you talk about IC's changing how they sound over time you will alway get people that doubt it.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some think it is burn in with opamps or other IC's. Others think it is just your ears getting used to the frequency response._

 

Well, either way you have to give it some time, which probably is a good idea anyway.
 Got another delivery today, so with yet another on the way it's going to be a opamp rolling party soon:

 LT1358IN8
 LT1358CN8#PBF
 LT1057ACN8
 OPA2111KP
 OPA2211AIDDA
 THS4032CD
 OPA2727AIDR

 Wife will be working night shifts next week so I should be able to start checking some out while waiting for a few adapters to arrive.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, either way you have to give it some time, which probably is a good idea anyway.
 Got another delivery today, so with yet another on the way it's going to be a opamp rolling party soon:

 LT1358IN8
 LT1358CN8#PBF
 LT1057ACN8
 OPA2111KP
 OPA2211AIDDA
 THS4032CD
 OPA2727AIDR

 Wife will be working night shifts next week so I should be able to start checking some out while waiting for a few adapters to arrive._

 

IIRC, the OPA2727 is a CMOS opamp and so is only compatible with lower voltages. The STX or ST have to much input voltage for this opamp.
 I could be wrong, But I would verify anyway as if ou put this opamps in the STX and power it up your going to pop it and possibly damage the circuit.


----------



## oqvist

Must take at least 6 month to give all that a decent evaluation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Is there a way to get the card to output sound through both headphone and line out... I need to use line out to use my LFE. btw it´s an excellent monitoring tool. It´s much easier to feel the difference rather then just hear it. The way LFE interacts it´s obvious that the Essence have much more slow low bass then the Elite Pro. Which seem to have more punchy or "fast" bass based on how my LFE operates. They both have plenty of it.

 also why is LME49720NA better then the 49722NA


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IIRC, the OPA2727 is a CMOS opamp and so is only compatible with lower voltages. The STX or ST have to much input voltage for this opamp.
 I could be wrong, But I would verify anyway as if ou put this opamps in the STX and power it up your going to pop it and possibly damage the circuit._

 

Oh, good thing that I posted my list here then. Thank you very much for the heads up on the voltage requirements. I'll check it out. If someone else knows anything about this you're more than welcome to share what you know!

 Actually, I could probably settle for the 49720HA but since I'm a geek at heart I can't resist this much fun


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, good thing that I posted my list here then. Thank you very much for the heads up on the voltage requirements. I'll check it out. If someone else knows anything about this you're more than welcome to share what you know!

 Actually, I could probably settle for the 49720HA but since I'm a geek at heart I can't resist this much fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

No problem, I think your good with the rest. Just look over the spec sheets to make sure they are all dual channels also. I am unsure if they are all Dip8 as if some of them are SOIC8 they will need adapters. You might also need adpaters if they are only single channel chips.

 The THS4032's will require adapters to change the SOIC footprint to DIP8..etc. Do you know that some are surface mount parts?
 No big deal but they will require adapters to be used with soudncards.
 Do you have the skills to solder them up?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Must take at least 6 month to give all that a decent evaluation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Is there a way to get the card to output sound through both headphone and line out... I need to use line out to use my LFE. btw it´s an excellent monitoring tool. It´s much easier to feel the difference rather then just hear it. The way LFE interacts it´s obvious that the Essence have much more slow low bass then the Elite Pro. Which seem to have more punchy or "fast" bass based on how my LFE operates. They both have plenty of it.

 also why is LME49720NA better then the 49722NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You cannot use line outs and headphone out at the same time just using the card.
 When you switch to headphones mode, the output from teh I/V section are physically routed from the input of the single end buffer to the TI headphone amplifier chip.
 You could possibly, set the card to lien out and split off the signal to conenct to a external heapdheons amplifier or directly to the heapdhoens if they do not require a extra amplifier. Just a suggestion.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SiNajan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Essence STX is a new PCI-E audio card designed for high-end computer-based audio???






_

 

The STX, is anot really that new..been out for awhile now. Yes, the card is geared towards high-end audio for a PC. the STX has a very high quality DAC, high grade capacitors and other design considerations that provide great sound quality. The STX also ahs the ability to change the opamps with better units which can improve the soudn quality or tune it more to your liking. There is also a quality headphone amplifier chip built in that can drive high impedance headphones.
 There is also a PCI verison of the STX, that has a improved clock circuit and the ability to upgrade the card to 7.1 using a daughter card.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No problem, I think your good with the rest. Just look over the spec sheets to make sure they are all dual channels also. I am unsure if they are all Dip8 as if some of them are SOIC8 they will need adapters. You might also need adpaters if they are only single channel chips.

 The THS4032's will require adapters to change the SOIC footprint to DIP8..etc. Do you know that some are surface mount parts?
 No big deal but they will require adapters to be used with soudncards.
 Do you have the skills to solder them up?_

 

They should all be dual, and I know that some are SOIC8 so I'll order adapters for those at the same time as I order some for the HA's TO-99. I think I'll be able to solder them up. At least I have the proper equipment ^^


----------



## oqvist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You cannot use line outs and headphone out at the same time just using the card.
 When you switch to headphones mode, the output from teh I/V section are physically routed from the input of the single end buffer to the TI headphone amplifier chip.
 You could possibly, set the card to lien out and split off the signal to conenct to a external heapdheons amplifier or directly to the heapdhoens if they do not require a extra amplifier. Just a suggestion._

 

Yes that is how I have them connected. Just thinking if I could get rid of my amps if the essence as dac/amp combo would be better then my dedicated dacs/amps. Though I don´t really trust soundcards to last forever and I suppose the evil hardware manufacturers will soon make both PCI and PCI ex obsolete to get us upgrade more.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IIRC, the OPA2727 is a CMOS opamp and so is only compatible with lower voltages. The STX or ST have to much input voltage for this opamp.
 I could be wrong, But I would verify anyway as if ou put this opamps in the STX and power it up your going to pop it and possibly damage the circuit._

 

Is input voltage the same as supply voltage? If so, the OPA2727 can handle 12V but since I'm new to this I'm not sure this is the voltage you are referring to.

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2727.pdf


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_installed the 49720NAs.

 Coming to comparison between LT1358 and these the main differnence is PRAT . Compared to 1358 these sound a bit slow.
 IMO 1358 have the best qualities of 49720NA with a faster, more dynamic presentation.
 They also have better bass response than 49720s

 Overall, I prefer LT1358 more._

 

I finally received my two LT1358IN8! apparently LT prepares the samples enveloppes in the US, then ships them slooooooooooowly to France(by boat?)....and when they finally make it here they ship them by domestic economic mail. so this takes FOREVER to show up...

 anyway, the bottom side of the bottom I/V op-amp holder looks "rusty" on my card.....it always did, I hope it doesn't make op-amps oscillate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so should I try the LT1229 ?! some ppl seemed to like it, but it's not the same kind of op-amp as we usually try.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2465911

  Quote:


 i already have one LM4562, one LM6172 and pair of LT1360s for my cmoy. the LT1360s sound best atm, LM4562 worst (no bass at the low gain setting i prefer, no problems on high gain though). LM6172 is pretty much like LM4562 except for better bass.
 i'll get one LT1126, LT1208, LT1229, LT1355, LT1358, LT1361 (dual version of LT1360), LT1364 and LT1469 soon.


----------



## leeperry

humm that LT1358IN8 looks pretty money indeed! the 49720NA sounds bloated in comparison....in all honesty I might start to think that the 49720NA doesn't work at its best on these Asus card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the first time I put the 49720NA on my brand new STX, the sound was drifting badly...and they also gave a hollow bloated sound on my ST(especially the left channel, but as I said one of my DIP8 holders looks rusty...so that sure doesn't help w/ oscillating). 

 I've been spoiled by the 49720NA HUGE soundstage and stellar specs....but that LT1358 doesn't have the ugly mids of the 2111, yet the bass seems to sound great and energetic(not flabby like on the 49720NA) and the left channel doesn't seem to sound crappy on my ST.

 put simply, the LT1358 sounds like a 49720NA on steroids...when will it ever stop!


----------



## gurubhai

I absolutely adore the LT1358 .
 Glad that others are liking it too.


----------



## leeperry

yup, thanks for the tip!

 but the 2 samples they sent me are not from the same batch, they don't have the same writings on top...hopefully it's only cosmetic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but anyway, I don't need to resort to crossfeeding anymore....my left ear doesn't hurt anymore on headphones, I think there was something really wrong w/ the 49720NA on my card. my left ear felt half-deaf, I think I'm gonna ditch these 49720NA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*PS:* I've just tried the RCA out, the sound is dull...like the HP out w/ the lowest gain setting. my 600Ohmer needs more juice!


----------



## Bojamijams

Are you guys using the 1358 as I/V or buffer?


----------



## oqvist

Last time I am listening to you Leeperry... Now where do you get these magic LT1358 lol. They are 8dip so you don´t have to solder and stuff?


----------



## leeperry

hahaha, well the 49720NA is a major improvement over the stock op-amps...that's for sure! and one of my DIP8 holders is rusty(which might increase oscillation), so YMMV ya know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 yup the LT1358IN8 is DIP8 and 100% free as sample(but allow 2 weeks of delivery time).

 I use two of them as I/V, the buffer opamp is not beefy enough for my DT770/600Ω


----------



## leeperry

humm, I think I'm gonna order two of these(don't care for buffer) and ask a local shop to swap them: 8-pin DIP IC Socket

 will cost me the same as sending it back for RMA to Germany, and at least I'll have killer holders...not the rusty junk asus put on my card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 fotios did it : http://www.eal.gr/


----------



## oqvist

Yeah but you didn´t mention major volume inbalance or bloated bass. Though isn´t that easy fixed by just adjusting the left and right channels on the essence? But well where did you get them?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is input voltage the same as supply voltage? If so, the OPA2727 can handle 12V but since I'm new to this I'm not sure this is the voltage you are referring to.

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa2727.pdf_

 

12V? -Yes for total supply. The STX/ST offer +/- 12 Volts so 24 Volts total supply voltage.
 Such as:
*Total Supply Voltage (V)(Max)(+5V=5, +/-5V=10)*

 So this opamp can take +/- 6 volts...MAX.

 The STX/ST cannot use this opamp.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah but you didn´t mention major volume inbalance or bloated bass. Though isn´t that easy fixed by just adjusting the left and right channels on the essence? But well where did you get them?_

 

Linear Technology. Just another opamp company.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_humm, I think I'm gonna order two of these(don't care for buffer) and ask a local shop to swap them: 8-pin DIP IC Socket

 will cost me the same as sending it back for RMA to Germany, and at least I'll have killer holders...not the rusty junk asus put on my card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 fotios did it : welcome to* The Electronic Audio Labs* web magazine_

 

I suggested changing out the sockets long ago. Especially if your going to keep swapping opamps.


----------



## leeperry

yep, I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the sockets on my STX looked OK(shiny metal), but on my ST the bottom row of the bottom I/V socket looks rusty as hell...I guess I'm a victim of poor QA at the factory 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway I've called a shop, they can swap them....but only if the PCB doesn't have more than 2 layers, sounds like I'm SOL. I will RMA the damn thing


----------



## ROBSCIX

Change them yourself.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_12V? -Yes for total supply. The STX/ST offer +/- 12 Volts so 24 Volts total supply voltage.
 Such as:
*Total Supply Voltage (V)(Max)(+5V=5, +/-5V=10)*

 So this opamp can take +/- 6 volts...MAX.

 The STX/ST cannot use this opamp._

 

Thanks for clearing that up. Even though the OPA2727 apparently can take 13.2V as the absolute max it doesn't come anywhere near 24.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Change them yourself._

 

they're experts! they told me that the problem is that if there's more than 3 PCB "faces", it takes too much heat to warm up the middle layer...hence it could break tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, it sounds a lot better now w/ the 1358 than it ever did w/ the 49720(oscillation anyone?)....and the guy actually advised me to find my favorite op-amp, get rid of sockets and solder them directly on it!

 I bet the bottom I/V socket is for the left channel


----------



## leeperry

the supply max on the 49720 is 34V: LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

 but on the 49722 it's 18V: LME49722 - Low Noise, High Performance, High Fidelity Dual Audio Operational Amplifier

 so I cannot try the 49722 on the ST? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna end up soldering the 1358 directly on the board, and call it a day


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the supply max on the 49720 is 34V: LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

 but on the 49722 it's 18V: LME49722 - Low Noise, High Performance, High Fidelity Dual Audio Operational Amplifier

 so I cannot try the 49722 on the ST? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm gonna end up soldering the 1358 directly on the board, and call it a day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, Also recommended soldering the opamps to the board once you found the ones you liked. -if you are not interested in testing anymore.

 If the max voltage is only rated for 18V....it depends on what they mean by 18V....
 do they mean 18V for both + and - swing?
 Or do they mean 18V altogether...it is not listed on the spec sheet like it is for the OPA2727.
 Ask the company.

 Ask them if this amplifier can handle a +12 and -12 volt swing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they're experts! they told me that the problem is that if there's more than 3 PCB "faces", it takes too much heat to warm up the middle layer...hence it could break tracks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, it sounds a lot better now w/ the 1358 than it ever did w/ the 49720(oscillation anyone?)....and the guy actually advised me to find my favorite op-amp, get rid of sockets and solder them directly on it!

 I bet the bottom I/V socket is for the left channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Experts? Well then! Take your own quote at the bottom. You just posted a link about Fotios replacing the sockets on his card.
 To much heat can damage anything. The trick in electronics is move quick. You also need the right tools to de-solder the parts.
 If your unsure, I wouldn't try it.


----------



## leeperry

well, the 49722 is meant to be a drop-in replacement for the 49720 : "Directly interchangeable with LME49720, LM4562 and LME49860 for similar operating voltages."

 on page 3 they talk about 38V : http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LME49722.pdf

 so do you think I can try the LT1229 samples I received? it's a current feedback op-amp : Linear Technology - LT1229 - Dual 100MHz Current Feedback Amplifiers


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_well, the 49722 is meant to be a drop-in replacement for the 49720 : "Directly interchangeable with LME49720, LM4562 and LME49860 for similar operating voltages."

 on page 3 they talk about 38V : http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LME49722.pdf

 so do you think I can try the LT1229 samples I received? it's a current feedback op-amp : Linear Technology - LT1229 - Dual 100MHz Current Feedback Amplifiers_

 

It says +/-18V in that pdf, so you should be fine.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Your Good! I look in the spec sheet and it says: *The LME49722 has a wide supply range of ±2.5V to ±18V*

 So, this can handle +/- 18 Volts which is more then enough range for the STX/ST.

 Edit Ha, posted at the same time.

 That is why you need to check though. Some specifications sheets will tell you exactly what they mean by the number. E.g the OPA2727 spec sheet.
 Others will leave it for you to figure out.


----------



## leeperry

alright! so what about the LT1229?

 I've found a manufacturer that sends fully gold plated DIP8 sockets as free samples 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 whenever my request will have been accepted, I'll give you guys the link


----------



## deubeul

Hi there, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 First, sorry for my bad english 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I have a few questions about the STX :

 Is it possible to plug simultaneously a headphone by using heaphone amp output + a stereo amplifier by using L/R RCA outputs, + a A/V receiver by using spdif, and simply change the routing by using the asus software ?
 The idea is to keep everything plugged all the time, and simply switch to the good output in the soft, depending of the situation.

 I hope that im understandable, and sorry again for this "charabia", as we say in french...


----------



## dex85

^hi and welcome. its possible to keep everything connected and to change output in asus software. for instance, if you choose S/PDIF other outputs will go mute.
 ______________________________________

 question for lt1358 users? how is the soundstage compared to 4562/49720?


----------



## Bojamijams

Hey ROBSCIX, Any experience with LT1358? 

 I'm interested in your thoughts on it as an I/V opamp and what you would use as a buffer with it


----------



## oqvist

Okay another days of listening after continues pink noise through it... Man are these bass monsters! I suppose that is why they fit the K701 like a glove... My Pro 900 is actually booming at times which they never do! Would have to apply a LOT of extra cotton wool to compensate. Though it´s really nice for classical and as mentioned could just use it exclusively for my K701. But it´s to much bass for my speakers too. Will have to try exchange the Slee Solo for my old pimeta amp. Slee Solo is surely not an amp to emphasize bass but my Pimeta is a bit bass shy with more upper bass then low bass. So the synergy ST/pimeta/Pro 900 may be a lot better.

 Will 49720 give me tighter bass? Lot less volume to please? Or is the LT a better choice here? I like the treble but seriously I understand all the comments about the huge bass now... Truly bass monster soundcard in stock.


----------



## deubeul

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^hi and welcome. its possible to keep everything connected and to change output in asus software. for instance, if you choose S/PDIF other outputs will go mute._

 

Thanks for your quick and clear answer.

 I order a STX just after reading your post


----------



## dex85

^you're welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* 
_Okay another days of listening after continues pink noise through it... Man are these bass monsters! I suppose that is why they fit the K701 like a glove... My Pro 900 is actually booming at times which they never do! Would have to apply a LOT of extra cotton wool to compensate. Though it´s really nice for classical and as mentioned could just use it exclusively for my K701. But it´s to much bass for my speakers too. Will have to try exchange the Slee Solo for my old pimeta amp. Slee Solo is surely not an amp to emphasize bass but my Pimeta is a bit bass shy with more upper bass then low bass. So the synergy ST/pimeta/Pro 900 may be a lot better.

 Will 49720 give me tighter bass? Lot less volume to please? Or is the LT a better choice here? I like the treble but seriously I understand all the comments about the huge bass now... Truly bass monster soundcard in stock._

 

i'm not using an external amp with my K701, just one integrated in card. on stock, bass is pretty much missing in action regardless of gain setting. bose receiver gives me more bass but much worse control over drivers (lots of distortion and terrible transients). line-out is different story, bass is definitely there. it's strange because of all people saying how bass heavy are stock op-amps. it made me realize i definitely need a better headphone amp.

 i had been using 49720NA for some moths. i could hear bass at least and yes, it was tighter and more focused. there was much better clarity and details over stock overall. K701 soundstage is unreal with these op-ams. also sibilance was kind of 'ssss' instead of 'shhh' on stock. after some time i started to realize 49720 have very extended and prominent highs. eventually, i couldn't take it anymore and swap back the JRC 2114. although they are lacking in many areas, overally i enjoy music more now. your experience could be different since you are using external amp.

 quest for best compromise op-amps continue


----------



## G~mann

Have anyone tried the STX with 49720NA (dip 8) at I/V and 49720HA (TO-99) at the buffer? Would this combination complement each other by minimizing the noted deficiency of each (in the bass, transparency and soundstage areas) ?


----------



## Bmac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_after some time i started to realize 49720 have very extended and prominent highs. eventually, i couldn't take it anymore and swap back the JRC 2114. although they are lacking in many areas, overally i enjoy music more now._

 

I listened to the 49720 with the K701's and Dynaudio BM5A's, and I came to the same conclusion as you about them. Not enough bass extension or quantity, and the upper mids are so prominent that I found them fatiguing almost instantly. There is no question that the soundstage is huge, but with naturally open and detailed speakers/headphones the 49720 sounds artificial, as if Dolby Headphone is on or something. I much preferred the stock op-amps for all their so-called faults. They work with my drivers well, but I've just started listening to 3x LM4562 and so far they seem pretty similar to stock.


----------



## oqvist

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^you're welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 i'm not using an external amp with my K701, just one integrated in card. on stock, bass is pretty much missing in action regardless of gain setting. bose receiver gives me more bass but much worse control over drivers (lots of distortion and terrible transients). line-out is different story, bass is definitely there. it's strange because of all people saying how bass heavy are stock op-amps. it made me realize i definitely need a better headphone amp.

 i had been using 49720NA for some moths. i could hear bass at least and yes, it was tighter and more focused. there was much better clarity and details over stock overall. K701 soundstage is unreal with these op-ams. also sibilance was kind of 'ssss' instead of 'shhh' on stock. after some time i started to realize 49720 have very extended and prominent highs. eventually, i couldn't take it anymore and swap back the JRC 2114. although they are lacking in many areas, overally i enjoy music more now. your experience could be different since you are using external amp.

 quest for best compromise op-amps continue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Hmm wonder why all complain about K701 lacking bass? Maybe the prescripted 1000h burn in is true lol. I dont´think I am there yet but perhaps not to far off. The K701 is hooked up directly on the headphone out and the Pro 900 line out to Slee Solo... So when I get a chance to connect it to the headphone out it might be better with less bass? But due to the bass on the K701 I suspect still to high.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_after some time i started to realize 49720 have very extended and prominent highs. eventually, i couldn't take it anymore and swap back the JRC 2114. although they are lacking in many areas, overally i enjoy music more now._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bmac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened to the 49720 with the K701's and Dynaudio BM5A's, and I came to the same conclusion as you about them. Not enough bass extension or quantity, and the upper mids are so prominent that I found them fatiguing almost instantly._

 

You guys should try the 49720HA version together with K701's. It has the bass extension and power combined with very neutral, controlled highs. Maybe it lacks a certain airy quality but that might be countered by the K701's.


----------



## dex85

^i'm going to try HA version soon. it could be the winner, i will see.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So when I get a chance to connect it to the headphone out it might be better with less bass? But due to the bass on the K701 I suspect still to high._

 

it's worth a try, i think K701 could benefit better from Solo.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bmac* 
_There is no question that the soundstage is huge, but with naturally open and detailed speakers/headphones the 49720 sounds artificial, as if Dolby Headphone is on or something_

 

i noticed it too. some songs sound great and others downright artificial and unnatural. still i've been missing 49720's soundstage since i swap the stock op-amps back. it's soundstage is too shallow imo.


----------



## leeperry

indeed, the 49720NA has very clear trebles....but also very agressive, but the bass is almost inexistent anyway.

 and the HA has very strong bass and pretty dark trebles, but not "nice" dark as the LT1358IN8...more like "veiled dark".

 anyway, I'll try the HA again when I'll have found my favorite LT chip....but IIRC the bass was really overblown, but still flabby. it's very tight on the LT1358IN8 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish they'd make a "smart" op-amp w/ external EQ


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_indeed, the 49720NA has very clear trebles....but also very agressive, but the bass is almost inexistent anyway.

 and the HA has very strong bass and pretty dark trebles, but not "nice" dark as the LT1358IN8...more like "veiled dark".

 anyway, I'll try the HA again when I'll have found my favorite LT chip....but IIRC the bass was really overblown, but still flabby. it's very tight on the LT1358IN8 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish they'd make a "smart" op-amp w/ external EQ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Actually, I couldn't resist putting in my two samples of the LT1358IN8 yesterday night. And since I had the LME49720HA's in there before, that's what I'm most directly comparing it with. With my setup, headphone out, the bass comes out rather the other way around: the HA giving me a powerful, yet tight, controlled and dry sound. The 1358, on the other hand, sounds exaggerated, boomy and without much texture.
 Comparing the highs, they are neutral on the HA's, maybe what you could call dark, but definitely not as veiled as I remember them being on the stock 2114; I'd call them soft, yet detailed. With the 1358's, however, highs are much more prominent. There's both more air and bite to the sound, but there's something quite not right with it. It's exaggerated in an unnatural (digital?) way and I don't think these highs are of the best quality. I'll be listening more before making up my mind, but the overblown bass already annoys me, making me long for that dry sound of the HA's. No synergy with my system and the 1358's. Think I'll go for the LT1057ACN8 tonight.


----------



## leeperry

hah LT1057ACN8, I forgot to order this one! <clicky, clicky> fixed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 alright, let us know


----------



## ROBSCIX

Different gear and different ears. We all like different sound signatures.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *oqvist* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Okay another days of listening after continues pink noise through it... Man are these bass monsters! I suppose that is why they fit the K701 like a glove... My Pro 900 is actually booming at times which they never do! Would have to apply a LOT of extra cotton wool to compensate. Though it´s really nice for classical and as mentioned could just use it exclusively for my K701. But it´s to much bass for my speakers too. Will have to try exchange the Slee Solo for my old pimeta amp. Slee Solo is surely not an amp to emphasize bass but my Pimeta is a bit bass shy with more upper bass then low bass. So the synergy ST/pimeta/Pro 900 may be a lot better.

 Will 49720 give me tighter bass? Lot less volume to please? Or is the LT a better choice here? I like the treble but seriously I understand all the comments about the huge bass now... Truly bass monster soundcard in stock._

 

The stock setup has tight bass. There's just a lot of it. Your PRO900's sounding boomy is just a function of their design. I used to own the PRO750 for a year and without the cotton mod, it got boomy with a bassy source. None of my open cans (and speakers) have sounded boomy in the slightest with the stock setup.

 That being said, I do suggest the LME49720 in your case. Definitely lighter in the bass, with more prominent mids, a larger soundstage and smoother treble with more extension.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G~mann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Have anyone tried the STX with 49720NA (dip 8) at I/V and 49720HA (TO-99) at the buffer? Would this combination complement each other by minimizing the noted deficiency of each (in the bass, transparency and soundstage areas) ?_

 

I have tried this combo and no, unfortunately, it doesn't rectify the faults of the two. In fact, I found 3xLME49720NA to be smoother sounding with a comparable soundstage. The HA gives a slightly larger soundstage but that may just be a side effect of it's brighter/airier treble.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bmac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I listened to the 49720 with the K701's and Dynaudio BM5A's, and I came to the same conclusion as you about them. Not enough bass extension or quantity, and the upper mids are so prominent that I found them fatiguing almost instantly. There is no question that the soundstage is huge, but with naturally open and detailed speakers/headphones the 49720 sounds artificial, as if Dolby Headphone is on or something. I much preferred the stock op-amps for all their so-called faults. They work with my drivers well, but I've just started listening to 3x LM4562 and so far they seem pretty similar to stock._

 

This was my initial opinion and it took a lot of experimenting to find out it was wrong. The LME49720 do not lack bass extension, they just don't emphasize the bass (especially midbass) as much as the JRC2114. WRT your second point, I've found no upper mid range peaks through testing with sine waves and regular listening.


----------



## G~mann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tried this combo and no, unfortunately, it doesn't rectify the faults of the two. In fact, I found 3xLME49720NA to be smoother sounding with a comparable soundstage. The HA gives a slightly larger soundstage but that may just be a side effect of it's brighter/airier treble._

 

Is the stock buffer opamp (LM4562) equivalent to the LME49720NA? As mentioned earlier I am currently using a pair of 49720NA at the I/V. I have a free pair of LME49720HA on the way but I'm not really in a rush to swap them in. 
 I am finding myself lately too fixated in achieving the "perfect sound'. This futile pursuit is for something that's simply unattainable will rob me of my joy for music if I allow it to.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the LM4562NA and the LME49720NA are the same opamps, only difference is the paint for the label.

 Don't worry about the "perfect" sound as there is really no such thing. Just a sound that is enjoyable to you. If your always looking for something better, then you will never enjoy what you currently have.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hah LT1057ACN8, I forgot to order this one! <clicky, clicky> fixed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 alright, let us know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wow, I certainly wasn't prepared for how stunning the LT1057 is.

 With my closed cans usually sounding a bit boomy on the bass end and often a bit dark in the highs, this must be a near perfect combination running from the headphones out.

 These opamps make me forget I have closed headphones on. So much presence and a huge soundstage. A clear, balanced sound with some bite to it makes for a lot of PRAT.

 Bass is lacking a bit texture but reaches low and is dry with a punchy upper range. Snare drums never sounded this good. Mids are natural with a tendency to being forward, but that is balanced by the highs which are crisp and airy. They could just maybe be a tad cleaner, but they're nowhere near having that unnatural character of the LT1358's.

 Overall they produce a fast, dynamic but still balanced sound, with somewhat prominent highs that makes my setup perfect for the progressive rock and metal I mostly listen to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got a few more opamps to try out but so far I probably will prefer these over the LME49720HA's, even though they have a slightly more controlled and warm, clear sound profile.


----------



## leeperry

ok sounds good! what other LT parts did you order? I can't believe how slowly and randomly I'm receiving them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've just ordered several TI parts(THS4032ID/OPA2211AIDDA/OPA827AID), and I also have the LME49722MA....that should keep me busy for quite a while. but I already loved the 1358 -I think-, so it looks like finding an op-amp that fits your needs is not entirely impossible.

 I still wonder if the LME serie is successful because it's been hyped to death(both on the internet and in the datasheet specs)....or if the Essence design simply doesn't work too well w/ them. it was clear to me that the LT1358 was FAR more stable on my board than these parts.

 Apparently the lower the gain bandwidth the better, it's been said on diyaudio that 100Mhz is impossible to use on a regular audio op-amp design....and maybe 55Mhz is already too much.

 the stock op-amps were the NJM2114D, and it's got a gain bw of 13Mhz : NJM2114D


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ok sounds good! what other LT parts did you order? I can't believe how slowly and randomly I'm receiving them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I only asked for the LT1358IN8, LT1358CN8#PBF and the LT1057ACN8, but I too got mine at different times: the first after 5 days while the others only arrived after 11 days (in rather bad packaging).

  Quote:


 I still wonder if the LME serie is successful because it's been hyped to death(both on the internet and in the datasheet specs)....or if the Essence design simply doesn't work too well w/ them. it was clear to me that the LT1358 was FAR more stable on my board than these parts. 
 

Weird that we perceive these opamps so differently. After all, you'd think the the DT 150 and DT 770 wouldn't have so widely different sound signatures even though mine is of a closed construction. The LME49720HA's work just fine on my STX though I find the NA lacking. From what you're saying I'm beginning to think there might be something wrong with how my LT1358's (which, btw, have identical markings) function, however.

  Quote:


 Apparently the lower the gain bandwidth the better, it's been said on diyaudio that 100Mhz is impossible to use on a regular audio op-amp design....and maybe 55Mhz is already too much.

 the stock op-amps were the NJM2114D, and it's got a gain bw of 13Mhz : NJM2114D 
 

Hehe, in the pdf I downloaded from their website it says typ. 15MHz


----------



## gurubhai

I just remembered that I had a pair of LT1057 lying for quite some time so I popped them in.

 My first impression is :
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I certainly wasn't prepared for how stunning the LT1057 is._


----------



## leeperry

hah, and I only ordered the LT1057 yesterday...I'll have them mid august if I'm lucky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, I loved the 49720HA on my STX, but it lacked on the ST....OTOH my ST is foobar'ed, look at the bottom row of the bottom right I/V socket : http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/9601/dscn1662c.jpg

 I just sent it back for RMA to get a brand new replacement unit...so I'll try them again if I'm lucky enough to get a card that looks as it should : http://www.eal.gr/Scan48.jpg


----------



## gurubhai

I was using 49720HA for past couple of days for a final show-off between them & LT1358.

 But, LT1057 , they seem to be in a different league altogether.I hope these early impressions stand the test of time.

 @Leepery : It seems that LT seems to send their opamps from their local office in the destination country & also from some regional office (in my case at Singapore) if some samples are unavailable at local office.
 The regional office samples take longer to arrive and generally have poorer packing.
 Also, good luck for your RMA.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wow, I certainly wasn't prepared for how stunning the LT1057 is._

 

I compared the LT1358 and the LT1057 awhile back for another member and posted the results as I also prefered the LT1057. They are much warmer and have more charachter then the LT1358's. Here is the orignal post: LINK


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I compared the LT1358 and the LT1057 awhile back for another member and posted the results as I also prefered the LT1057. They are much warmer and have more charachter then the LT1358's. Here is the orignal post: LINK_

 

I remember that one, though you're comparing the 1364 (rather than the 1358) to the 1057 and they're in a buffer position, so I wasn't sure how it would compare to my setup using the headphones out. It certainly was one of the things that made me want to try the 1057 out, that's for sure.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was using 49720HA for past couple of days for a final show-off between them & LT1358.

 But, LT1057 , they seem to be in a different league altogether.I hope these early impressions stand the test of time._

 

For me, the choice between the 49720HA and 1358 was easy, but as you say, the 1057 brings another dimension to the equation. Here's to hoping they I will still like them as much in a week's time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm curious though, how would you describe the 1057's in a few more words than just "stunning"? And in what way does your setup differ from mine?
 Edit: I see you're using two different cans. Are your findings with both of them or just using one?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I remember that one, though you're comparing the 1364 (rather than the 1358) to the 1057 and they're in a buffer position, so I wasn't sure how it would compare to my setup using the headphones out. It certainly was one of the things that made me want to try the 1057 out, that's for sure._

 

Yes, 1364..I have the 1358 on my mind for some reason.
 No, I used the LT1057's for I/V, not the buffer.
 I kept the buffer as LME49720HA..as that is the test I was asked to do for a few members.


----------



## gurubhai

@ Cynips : I am using the Senn HD 595, rest of my setup is same as yours.

 I mostly agree with your observations & will add that the soundstage, imaging & insrumental separation is the best I have heard yet.I am loving the cymbals too.
 Also, I do not seem to be having the prominent highs that you complain of, so its all win-win for me


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, 1364..I have the 1358 on my mind for some reason.
 No, I used the LT1057's for I/V, not the buffer.
 I kept the buffer as LME49720HA..as that is the test I was asked to do for a few members._

 

Aha, well it says 1057 as buffer and the 49720 in I/V in that post, but the other way around makes more sense since your description is pretty similar to how I perceived them even if our setups differ substantially. Seems to me that I/V is more dominant than buffer when determining the overall sound. Would you say that is generally true?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aha, well it says 1057 as buffer and the 49720 in I/V in that post, but the other way around makes more sense since your description is pretty similar to how I perceived them even if our setups differ substantially. Seems to me that I/V is more dominant than buffer when determining the overall sound. Would you say that is generally true?_

 

I fixed the post. Not sure how I missed that. Anyway, yes the Linear opamps were used for I/V and the LME49720HA for Buffer.
 The I/V is responsible for most of the sonic signature. The Buffer seems to be able to highlight or hinder certain aspects of that signature. This is why in this configuration many will suggest not using three of the same type as it compounds the negative effects of the opamps. -Just as a general guideline.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, I do not seem to be having the prominent highs that you complain of, so its all win-win for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Ok, maybe it's just that I'm used to the darker character of the 49720HA's. Could be one of the reasons I need to give them (the 1057's) more time, whether it's burn-in or just adapting to the new sound.

 Do you agree with me that the HA's have better textured bass than the 1057? Or however you would describe that quality.


----------



## gurubhai

@ Robscix : that explains it . I was confused too.

 @Cynips : I feel the bass is dry, punchy & very tight with better definition. What do you mean by texture ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Nobody brought it to my attention. I never noticed. The tests were for the LT opamps while keeping the buffer the same as the units the memebers had that asked me to do the tests.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Nobody brought it to my attention. I never noticed. The tests were for the LT opamps while keeping the buffer the same as the units the memebers had that asked me to do the tests._

 

Well, since I wasn't really sure about the influence of I/V vs. buffer, it didn't make much of a difference to me.

 Can you remember offhand how you find the 1358 (possibly compared to the 1057)?


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What do you mean by texture ?_

 

Well, for me it means that the bass itself is not just bass but that you can make out nuances - detailed would be another word I guess.


----------



## gurubhai

IMO the details are pretty similar on both, though I feel the LT 1057 bass is better defined.


----------



## ManuLM

Hi there, 

 just swapped stock JRC's for the LM49720NA. Found more precision on the two ends of the spectrum, better bass definition, and a laid back mid. Does not mean it lost substance but a bit more behind the rest of the spectrum.

 Another point, I found how to manually edit EQ presets of the Xonar Audio Center to tune them precisely:

 open file C:\Documents and Settings\%username%\Application Data\ASUS\Xonar D2 Audio Center\cmicnfp.ini

 at the end of the file, add these lines (lnumber in the end of the string is the preset number, upto you to set it based on the number of presets you have):

 EQITEMNAME0=k701
 EQITEMNAME0_Data0=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data1=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data2=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data3=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data4=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data5=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data6=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data7=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data8=0
 EQITEMNAME0_Data9=0

 setting the gain value for respectively 30 (data0), 60, 120, 250, 500, 1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k(data9) frequency bands

 A 0 value gives a flat gain, 1310720 gives you +20dB, -1310720 gives -20dB, now upto your excel sheets to compute the freq response of your dreams  
 Datax value scales linearily in dB (so directly in the log scale, not a linear scale)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_IMO the details are pretty similar on both, though I feel the LT 1057 bass is better defined._

 

Yes, I found the LT1057 were a bit warmer and the bass was more defined.


----------



## Bojamijams

I just realized I had some 6172's.. now I remember one member has tried it out and comparing it to the 49720 he said "...That means less soundstage and a bit better bass."

 This sounds like a pretty good mix to me.. I don't know if that was in I/V or only as a buffer but anyway... in case you're wondering why I'm asking and not trying it out myself, as it is, my sound card is very hard to pull in and out (waterloop, blocks, etc.) so I'm wondering if anyone else can share opinions on 6172 before I go through a 2 hour hassle of putting them in


----------



## Cynips

Had some time in peace and quiet today, so I decided to try out the OPA2111KP (as well as compare the LT1358CN8#PBF to the LT1358IN8).

 The short story is, I didn't like it very much. There's definitely too much fluffy bass that at the same time lacks that punch. I'm somewhat undecided about the mids, maybe they could be described as flat. Highs are warm, yet shimmery to the point of sounding thin. Overall the sound is unbalanced and unnatural. Not for me.

 So I swapped in the LT1358CN8#PBF and they're pretty similar to the LT1358IN8 as far as I can remember. Not bad at all, they're kinda "warmish" but still airy, with good instrument separation. In fact, I started to think that there's not much wrong with these. Maybe they're slightly better than the LT1358IN8 after all? I can't hear anything that I'd call a "digital" sound here as I did with those.

 Anyway, finished the session with swapping back to the LT1057ACN8 and there it is again - everything just fall into place, such presence! I'm no longer listening to the bass, mids and trebles separately, there's just this natural sound. I wonder if metal case LT1057's really could beat this.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Grab some and have them made into a DIP8 module.


----------



## ROBSCIX

@CYnips, I have a rail of OPA2111's but they are nothing special IMO. They are ok but there are many ,many opamps which soudn much better.

 I am interested in the LT1057ACH -if that is the metal can version. Trouble is sourcing many of these metal can opamps. IIRC, the TO-99 LT1057 is actually considered a Obsolete package. It may be hard to find based on this fact.


----------



## Dalamar

How can I switch between aux/line in/mic in without rebooting? (says "currently unavailable" on all exept the default input til changed and rebooted)
 It's really infuriating. I hope ASUS starts releasing some real drivers...

 using Vista 64 SP2 and the latest STX drivers

 edit: weirdly enough, it works now without reboots... What


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@CYnips, I have a rail of OPA2111's but they are nothing special IMO. They are ok but there are many ,many opamps which soudn much better.

 I am interested in the LT1057ACH -if that is the metal can version. Trouble is sourcing many of these metal can opamps. IIRC, the TO-99 LT1057 is actually considered a Obsolete package. It may be hard to find based on this fact._

 

I don't understand all those letters, but an H apparently denotes metal can. You have any idea what the AC is for? And yes, they're not available from Linear Technology anymore. Think I saw some possible price for them, besides eBay, indicating somewhere near $15 each. Still kinda pricey when this pastime of mine has been more or less free so far (besides the STX, headphones, etc.). I'm not really in any hurry either. I did find a conversion table from National for which of their opamps to use as substitutes for various LT ones. Doubt it would be very similar to the LT1057 audio-wise.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't understand all those letters, but an H apparently denotes metal can. You have any idea what the AC is for? And yes, they're not available from Linear Technology anymore. Think I saw some possible price for them, besides eBay, indicating somewhere near $15 each. Still kinda pricey when this pastime of mine has been more or less free so far (besides the STX, headphones, etc.). I'm not really in any hurry either. I did find a conversion table from National for which of their opamps to use as substitutes for various LT ones. Doubt it would be very similar to the LT1057 audio-wise._

 

Each company has their own system but they usually denote environmental concerns..if hte parts contains this or that. You would have to read the specificaitons sheets to figure out exactly what each means.
 $15, for a dual channel unit? That isn't that much really. There are opamps out there worth $70 for a single channel unit. 
 It is easy for some to get into just ordering samples but many of the best audio opamps are not avialable through sample you have to buy them.
 I have a very large collection of opamps and only a small number of them were samples.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Each company has their own system but they usually denote environmental concerns..if hte parts contains this or that. You would have to read the specificaitons sheets to figure out exactly what each means.
 $15, for a dual channel unit? That isn't that much really. There are opamps out there worth $70 for a single channel unit. 
 It is easy for some to get into just ordering samples but many of the best audio opamps are not avialable through sample you have to buy them.
 I have a very large collection of opamps and only a small number of them were samples._

 

Hehe, I'm just trying to keep this not getting out of hand here


----------



## dex85

i finally received 49720HA soldered to an adapter today. so far i've got an hour of listening, so i don't want to sound too overenthusiastic. the first thing that stroke me was how coherent and liquid the sound is compared to NA. bass is finally present the way it should be. it's too early to make any conclusion but coherency with K701 left me mesmerized, it's nothing short of amazing.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i finally received 49720HA soldered to an adapter today. so far i've got an hour of listening, so i don't want to sound too overenthusiastic. the first thing that stroke me was how coherent and liquid the sound is compared to NA. bass is finally present the way it should be. it's too early to make any conclusion but coherency with K701 left me mesmerized, it's nothing short of amazing._

 

Nice! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And I'm curious, this is through the line out with the LM6172 in buffer still?


----------



## dex85

it's through headphone out. i've been thinking of getting an amp for some time but i'm hesitant to pull a trigger. how can it get better than this?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 seriously, i don't doubt good external amp would have an edge over TI amp but i'm not ready to fork out ~500€ and possibly get some subtle improvements.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_seriously, i don't doubt good external amp would have an edge over TI amp but i'm not ready to fork out ~500€ and possibly get some subtle improvements._

 

My thoughts exactly. But who knows, maybe in a couple of years, if my finances are stable enough, this hobby will expand that way


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have a few of the LME49720HA's on adapters and they are not bad but personally out of that LME series I like the LME49710HA's better. They require adapters also...


----------



## dex85

will this op-amp madness ever stop? i think i'm ready to take a break from this and enjoy the music for some time... until the swapping fever is back


----------



## ROBSCIX

Depends on you. If you want to keep testing or not.


----------



## leeperry

op-amps are like Ulysses sirens 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "I have tighter bass"...."I have wider soundstage"...."my trebles are more refined"...."I'm more transparent than the others"

 listen to their songs, and you'll be doomed....w/ zillions of op-amps on your table, but still only one soundcard and only two ears! be strong, be safe, be aware 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 PS: but what is lacking on the STX is the clock anyway..


----------



## ROBSCIX

..in your opinion.


----------



## RicHSAD

Is there any difference between the LT1057CN8 and the LT1057ACN8? I am thinking of getting some but I am not sure which one to chose. The ACN8's appear to be more expensive.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Check the spec sheet. There should be a listing of what each code means. Many timesd they are just environmental concerns or other codings that have little to do with soudn quality. Other times though, they could have to do with voltage and other ratings such as offset voltage. Review the sepc sheet.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's through headphone out. i've been thinking of getting an amp for some time but i'm hesitant to pull a trigger. how can it get better than this?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 seriously, i don't doubt good external amp would have an edge over TI amp but i'm not ready to fork out ~500€ and possibly get some subtle improvements._

 

Trust me. It can get a lot better. In fact I couldn't even listen to the STX's headphone out for more than 10 minutes because I was used to so much better with an external amp. Get a proper desktop amp and connect it to the line-out of the STX and hear what you've been missing.


----------



## RicHSAD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check the spec sheet. There should be a listing of what each code means. Many timesd they are just environmental concerns or other codings that have little to do with soudn quality. Other times though, they could have to do with voltage and other ratings such as offset voltage. Review the sepc sheet._

 

I had already reviewed the spec sheets and here's what I had found:

 LT1057ACN8:
 Slew Rate14 V/µs 
 Current - Supply1.6mA
 Voltage - Input Offset150µV 
 Current - Input Bias5pA

 LT1057CN8:
 Slew Rate13 V/µs 
 Current - Supply1.7mA
 Voltage - Input Offset200µV 
 Current - Input Bias7pA

 Unfortunately, I do not know anything about that stuff so it doesn't help me one bit.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Trust me. It can get a lot better. In fact I couldn't even listen to the STX's headphone out for more than 10 minutes because I was used to so much better with an external amp. Get a proper desktop amp and connect it to the line-out of the STX and hear what you've been missing._

 

Wait a min. Weren't you a big fan of the hp-out vs line out? What happened?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wait a min. Weren't you a big fan of the hp-out vs line out? What happened? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

HP out into an external amp* yes, not the HP out alone. After changing opamps in the M^3, the synergy changed and the line-out-to-external amp took the throne once again. This setup hasn't changed for a couple months now because I think it sounds best overall.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RicHSAD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there any difference between the LT1057CN8 and the LT1057ACN8? I am thinking of getting some but I am not sure which one to chose. The ACN8's appear to be more expensive._

 

AC is a higher grade than C, and I is the extreme temp version.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Trust me. It can get a lot better. In fact I couldn't even listen to the STX's headphone out for more than 10 minutes because I was used to so much better with an external amp. Get a proper desktop amp and connect it to the line-out of the STX and hear what you've been missing._

 

and i will probably, i just don't like the idea of buying the expensive amp unheard. there are no distributors of amps i'm interested in here.


----------



## ignorance is bliss

Yeah, I got a Essence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I didnt even want a soundcard innitially because I thought onboard was plenty good enough and I couldnt see that a better soundcard would be much a improve on the already fine onboard sound.. How wrong was I? Go go Essence


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i just don't like the idea of buying the expensive amp unheard._

 

well some phones are easier to drive than others, I know my DT770 is very easy to drive....but indeed the K701 seems to be another story altogether


----------



## dex85

volume wise, it should be more-less the same. i remember how we talked in one thread that we use the same gain and volume. but i guess it's not just about volume.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and i will probably, i just don't like the idea of buying the expensive amp unheard. there are no distributors of amps i'm interested in here._

 

Sure you can get better sounding cans amps. Much more money though. One of the main draws of the Essence is what you get for the price which is a very high quality DAC and a good headphone amplifier. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I doubt you could find a DAC / amp combo better then a Essence for the same price.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i guess it's not just about volume._

 

definitely not, and the on-board HP amp is just a simple cheap IC. a friend of mine who's got a cd3k and dx1k on the STX told me that his RSA Predator does a far better job than the card itself. sound is clearer and more controlled.

 but honestly, I like the all-in-one solution, no multiple volume knobs, no multiple power plugs...just very convenient.

 I use the mid gain at roughly 10% volume.

 still, I'd rather buy a better pair of headphones(dx1k, d7k) than buy an amp for my dt770/600...I think


----------



## G~mann

The STX is clearly the best soundcard I've ever owned. The opamps that I've settle for at the moment are 2x LT1057 at I/V and the LME49720NA at buffer. It seems a bit warmer than 3 LME49720NA(s), still detailed but not as airy; nice tight bass. Vocals sound simply wonderful, from Eliane Elias to Diane Krall to Tori Amos. I've only had a few hour with this setup but very enjoyable. The sound color complements my Onkyo's DSP & Audyssey processing very well. I am glad I went with the STX instead of the Zero dac.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G~mann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX is clearly the best soundcard I've ever owned. The opamps that I've settle for at the moment are 2x LT1057 at I/V and the LME49720NA at buffer. It seems a bit warmer than 3 LME49720NA(s), still detailed but not as airy; nice tight bass. Vocals sound simply wonderful, from Eliane Elias to Diane Krall to Tori Amos. I've only had a few hour with this setup but very enjoyable. The sound color complements my Onkyo's DSP & Audyssey processing very well. I am glad I went with the STX instead of the Zero dac._

 

The LT1057's are a great, very balanced opamp. A great setup I found using them is the LT1057 in the I/V with a dual LME49710HA in the buffer. They sound a bit cleaner then their dual channel brother. I have been considering making some LT1057 modules using the metal can versions.


----------



## Bojamijams

You know I'm very interested in your results


----------



## G~mann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1057's are a great, very balanced opamp. A great setup I found using them is the LT1057 in the I/V with a dual LME49710HA in the buffer. They sound a bit cleaner then their dual channel brother. I have been considering making some LT1057 modules using the metal can versions._

 

Thanks. I'll eventually try something different but for now I am more than happy with this configuration. Chasing for that "Perfect Sound" has become exhausting. I think I'll just enjoy listening to music for a bit (instead of opamps)


----------



## ROBSCIX

I don't chase the perfect sound. More just look for signatures that I enjoy and know what each opamps offers in my collection.


----------



## G~mann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't chase the perfect sound. More just look for signatures that I enjoy and know what each opamps offers in my collection._

 

Deja Vu, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did not realise we spoke of this in a previous post.

 I wasn't insinuating that you're the one chasing. I was speaking of myself. My STX soundcard may now be the best audio source I own and instead of "losing myself" in music I have myself listening analytically wondering how various combinations of opamps would change the sound signature. I never did this with my other audio sources (compact disc or dvd audio player). 

 You said it best, "If your always looking for something better, then you will never enjoy what you currently have."


----------



## leeperry

...but did you try the 49720HA?


----------



## G~mann

I have a pair of them but have not soldered them to the BrownDog adapters yet.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *G~mann* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Deja Vu, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did not realise we spoke of this in a previous post.

 I wasn't insinuating that you're the one chasing. I was speaking of myself. My STX soundcard may now be the best audio source I own and instead of "losing myself" in music I have myself listening analytically wondering how various combinations of opamps would change the sound signature. I never did this with my other audio sources (compact disc or dvd audio player). 

 You said it best, "If your always looking for something better, then you will never enjoy what you currently have."_

 

Oh no, I understand your not saying it was me. Just giving my humble point of view. I have been in the tuning and modding/opamp game for many years now and I have seen different sides of the "chase"...
 Opamps are great as you can tune your source to your tastes as opposed to using something tuned to anothers.





 I didn't realise we spoke about it either.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know I'm very interested in your results 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

There is a whole bunch of interested people.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Finally got around to buying some LT1057's.

 Bah, can't wait. Want them now to test out!
 I'm going to use it with the default LM4562 buffer.


----------



## RicHSAD

Cool.. Looking forward to your review/impression. I would be especially interested in knowing how they sound with your AD700s.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got around to buying some LT1057's.

 Bah, can't wait. Want them now to test out!
 I'm going to use it with the default LM4562 buffer._

 

I have been tracking down some TO-99 version of this opamp for testing.
 Your using the buffer, so your using the line-out?


----------



## gurubhai

^^I would be interested in that


----------



## ROBSCIX

I will keep you posted.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have been tracking down some TO-99 version of this opamp for testing.
 Your using the buffer, so your using the line-out?_

 

Yes, line-out to my Rockhopper M3.


----------



## ROBSCIX

That combo would produce more bass and just warm up the signature a bit more. Atleast it did on my system.


----------



## G~mann

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Finally got around to buying some LT1057's.
 Bah, can't wait. Want them now to test out!
 I'm going to use it with the default LM4562 buffer._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That combo would produce more bass and just warm up the signature a bit more. Atleast it did on my system._

 

That is the combo I'm currently using and it sounds great.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, I tested this combo out awhile ago for a few of the members. I haven't put out a great deal of time into listening to and describing the siganture. Just quick testing and preliminary listening tests. I knwo they sound pretty good when compared to many others I have tried and I have tried many opamps chips and modules.
 Latley, I have been working with many new units and researching for some new modules I want to build for myself and some I have been asked to build for some associates.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That combo would produce more bass and just warm up the signature a bit more. Atleast it did on my system._

 

That's a win synergy wise then for me. SS amp + warmth + DT880/600's.
 Slightly more bass on the DT880/600 = great and make it even more balanced = fantastic.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Post your impressions when you get a chance.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Well I got them and installed them today.
 These are very initial impressions so some later impressions later on this week within some burn-in might change what I've said here:

 (Essence STX with 2x LT1057 and default LM4562 as buffer line-out to a Rockhopper M3 --> Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm [sonically different from DT880 '03 and DT880 '05])

 Versus the default JRC 2114D:

 * A definate warming of the sound and this is the most noitceable difference
 * Slightly more bass
 * Better PRaT (faster) (perfect in this aspect as it cures the slowness of the DT880's)
 * Slightly more detail when the detail isn't clouded by the mids

 Overall though, an improvement. We'll see what burn-in does.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I got them and installed them today.
 These are very initial impressions so some later impressions later on this week within some burn-in might change what I've said here:

 (Essence STX with 2x LT1057 and default LM4562 as buffer line-out to a Rockhopper M3 --> Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohm [sonically different from DT880 '03 and DT880 '05])

 Versus the default JRC 2114D:

 * A definate warming of the sound and this is the most noitceable difference
 * Slightly more bass
 * Better PRaT (faster) (perfect in this aspect as it cures the slowness of the DT880's)
 * Slightly more detail when the detail isn't clouded by the mids

 Overall though, an improvement. We'll see what burn-in does._

 


 Great, glad to hear you seem to be enjoying them.

 Our impressions seem to be quite similar.


----------



## chinesekiwi

For any electronic music fans out there, the LT1057's are definately the opamps for you.
 These definately improve my enjoyment of electronic based music over any other genre.


----------



## RicHSAD

Have you tried them with your AD700s?


----------



## chinesekiwi

I'll do it now


----------



## chinesekiwi

Impressions with the AD700 w/ 2x LT1057 opamps:

 Basically not a good combo. Adding warmth to an alreadly extra warm headphone like the AD700 makes the mids very piercing and increases listener fatigyue quite quickly. As with the DT880/600, slightly better soundstage (with the AD700 = insane soundstage) and more detail in the music. Bass in terms of quantity is there but it lacks impact but that's more due to the AD700's.


----------



## RicHSAD

Thanks. I guess I'll have to keep searching .. although I might try them anyway for the hell of it hehe. I am getting rid of the AD700 soon for the AD900, so I am not sure if they'd work better with them. I guess I'll just have to try myself.


----------



## Bojamijams

What would be the most neutral I/V and Buffer combo that is both the cleanest, and extends the furthest (both up and down?) 

 I'm not looking for any warmth/coldness in my source/amp, just simply clean neutrality.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What would be the most neutral I/V and Buffer combo that is both the cleanest, and extends the furthest (both up and down?) 

 I'm not looking for any warmth/coldness in my source/amp, just simply clean neutrality._

 


 The first one that comes to my mind is:

 OPA2107's for I/V and a dual LME49710HA module for the buffer.

 That would be very clear and neutral I would think.

 I will think about some other combo's. As the dual LME module is a bit hard to find


----------



## Yann14

I am now trying the LME49720HA (3x) after the NA version : easy to plug directly in the slots (must just cut the legs and adapt the shape) and .... even much clearer sound (scene, instruments) very detailed music, perhaps a bit analysitc for those who don't like that (I do). I have now received two 1057 plus discrete G-Audio on their way.

 The NA already had brought a huge improvement (clarity and bass), now it is getting even bigger.

 At this point I find it difficult to imagine what can be improved, so I'll keep you posted (my modest contribution after having spent so many hours of learning yours).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Yann14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am now trying the LME49720HA (3x) after the NA version : easy to plug directly in the slots (must just cut the legs and adapt the shape) and .... even much clearer sound (scene, instruments) very detailed music, perhaps a bit analysitc for those who don't like that (I do). I have now received two 1057 plus discrete G-Audio on their way.

 The NA already had brought a huge improvement (clarity and bass), now it is getting even bigger.

 At this point I find it difficult to imagine what can be improved, so I'll keep you posted (my modest contribution after having spent so many hours of learning yours)._

 

Would be a better idea in my opinion to use adapters. All my metal can opamps are on adapters. Makes them much more stable, you can use bent pins for testing but if your planning on using them for good the adapters make the connections much more solid.
 Your card and your opamps so it is your choice.
 Audio-GD discrete, yes they sound pretty good also. There are a few around here using discrete in these cards. Both Bursons and Audio-GD units. Happy testing.


----------



## leeperry

yep, the LME49720HA are seriously money on the STX


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Yann14* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am now trying the LME49720HA (3x) after the NA version : easy to plug directly in the slots (must just cut the legs and adapt the shape) and .... even much clearer sound (scene, instruments) very detailed music, perhaps a bit analysitc for those who don't like that (I do). I have now received two 1057 plus discrete G-Audio on their way.

 The NA already had brought a huge improvement (clarity and bass), now it is getting even bigger.

 At this point I find it difficult to imagine what can be improved, so I'll keep you posted (my modest contribution after having spent so many hours of learning yours)._

 

Have you tried the 1057's yet?


----------



## Yann14

LT 1057 not yet tested. I am now on 4 days "break" to let the Audio-gd burn. They just have 24 hours now, so far from opening up. Only notice is a little more stuff on instruments (grain, asperities, well, what makes them sound more realistic). But definitive impressions to come in 2-3 days. And then the 1057.
 Robscix, the 49720HA seemed quite happy in their DIP8 socs, I did not want to add another point of connexion, did not seem of importance + the connectors of the HA seems of higher quality than the DIP8 (silver alloy ?).


----------



## ROBSCIX

What modules did you get from Audio-GD?
 As for the adapters, it is a personal decision I guess.


----------



## Salvador

Anyone recently ordered some LME49720HA samples from national? 

 I tried to order but was getting charged $72 just for shipping.

 I was getting it shipped to Toronto,Canada if that makes a difference.


----------



## taso89

Very important info for anyone upgrading to Win7 RTM: The Essence drivers are epically broken. I troubleshooted for the last 3 hours to figure out why I can't open any application (Firefox, foobar, whatever). The Win7 drivers are the cause and they will mess with your UAC/Administrator privileges. 

 The problem is posted on multiple threads in the Asus forums, and it seems to affect several Xonar cards: ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- For those fighting Windows 7 x64 RTM


----------



## leeperry

yeah, the Achilles heel of this card is the drivers....if I could find something similar w/ proper bloat-free bitmatched drivers, I'd change in a heartbeat! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all that C-Media legacy w/ HSMGR.EXE and the other 2 residents is no good...I don't want any resident app cloaking my system


----------



## genclaymore

I posted many times over there, that the fix was the game patch in the vista section of the support page. the game patch doesnt list the fix, but it does fix the issue with windows 7 build 7127 and up issues with Hsmgr making things not start.

 All I did was install that game patch after rebooting from the driver install and rebooted again and it fixed the issue. Been better if they include the fix in the next drivers so you dont have to run the game patch to fix the issue.

 Also the Hsmgr is what makes DSGX/GX works, if that disable. DSGX/GX doesnt work any more. Thats the only reason why it runs incase you dont remember, DSGX/GX mode controlls the function thats like creative Alchemy for games for surround in muiti speakers setups as the emulation of eax5. you can just disable it instead of applying the game fix to the drivers if you dont care about the DSGX/GX functions. 

 I wish they would add the info to list that it fixes the HsMgr issues on newer win7 builds. That way when people see it, they will also know what it fixes too. or add it to the windows 7 section of the drivers and add the line that it fix issues with windows 7 and HsMgr. But atleast the game patch/fix for win7 exist, could been worst and be like razer who dont even update there barracuda sound card drivers any more or do any thing esle to make the card function fully in vista/7.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thanks for the heads up re: hsmgr. I had it disabled way back for some compatibility reason and was wondering why the GX toggle wasn't doing anything for me now


----------



## Lotharius

Anyone use ATH-M50's with STX ? If yes, then which opamps are best with them ?

 Anyways if anyone doesn't use them together then maybe you can still tell me if there are any opamps that would be bass oriented but still with good soundstage, mids/highs ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just try the ones you have and see which sound the best with your gears and ears.
 If your new to opamps: If your using the headphone amplifier you only need to change the two opamps that are side by side. They are JRC2114D's...
 The other opamps is not used when your using the head amp.


----------



## Hadakan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I posted many times over there, that the fix was the game patch in the vista section of the support page._

 

And where exactly is that? I was looking for a solution to the problem with hsmgr and everyone talks about this mysterious "vista game patch", which I guess is KB940105 (but nobody ever mentions this specifically). However, what baffles me even more is that there is of course no way to install Vista hotfix onto Windows 7 so how is this even helpful?

 TL;DR

 Where can I download this fix, please?


----------



## genclaymore

Its located in the download patch on asus site, you have to select audio devices, then your sound card and then select vista 32 if your on 32bit or 64bit if your on 64bit. IT will be the first one listed.

 You can install it, you install windows 7 drivers first then reboot and then you install the fix, the fix is a cmaud or whatever file that you run. IT works because I did this same thing on a fresh install on windows 7 build 7600 when my HD died. 

 Its not a vista update from microsoft, its a asus fix. I can link you directy but i dont know if your on 32bit or 64bit as there two diffent ones. so i will link both

http://dlsvr04.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Aud...r_D1/CmAux.zip the 32bit one
http://dlsvr04.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Aud...D1/CmAux64.zip the 64bit one.

 You install them after you installed the drivers and rebooted, i recommand you unzip it first then reboot and run it. it will ask you to reboot and it be all set. I know the link says D1 But it is for all of the Xonar cards. it fixes the Hsmgr to work correctly.

 If you have Hsmgr disabled then you can still install it and then enable Hsmgr again before rebooting so you dont have to do it after you rebooted from the fix.


----------



## awesom-o

OK, i have a problem, seemingly, with my xonar stx. When i scroll in firefox/IE/explorer it makes a "dj-scratching-an-lp" kind of sound in my speakers. It's not loud, but definetly irritating. Also, when i crank the volume up to max, i can hear it when i move my mouse around, like a buzzing sound. It's also a lot of noise on highets volume, more than ever before. This is something that just startet a few days ago i think. I'm thinking it's my mainboard, suddenly messing something up.. 

 Has anyone had a similar problem?


----------



## Cynips

What mouse do you have? Some wireless kind maybe?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Also make sure your recording inputs that aren't being used are muted.

 Did you install some new patches or software? Anything that you remember that can explain the sudden changes in the system?


----------



## awesom-o

logitech G5, corded. No new software or drivers.. 
 All inputs are muted/disabled in windows and asus audio center. 

 I'll try reinstalling the driver and see if that makes any difference, if not i will try a different pcie slot.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just strange that this issue just popped up. Usually there is something that triggers hardware issues.


----------



## Cynips

Try using another USB jack maybe, especially if you're connecting through the front of your case.


----------



## awesom-o

found the error.. it was my xbox. 
 Just came to mind that i connected my xbox to my monitor a couple of days ago. Since picture and sound is in the same cable, it picks up interference from the monitor i guess, and transfers it to the amp. 

 Disconnected xbox audio: no more nasty sounds


----------



## ROBSCIX

Interesting. Will have to remember that. I figured you could track the issue as it would have to be something that had happened recently. Good you figured it out.


----------



## leeperry

BTW, I've been blinded by Asus commercial bs...and thought that going through the built-in HP amp was mandatory, until I realized that it was nothing more than a $1.5 generic chip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I used to prefer using it at the mid gain setting(I found the lowest one "dull"), but on my second STX I prefer the first one(less agressive) so wth, I've decided to use the line-out on my DT770/600Ω(on the STX)...and just like the RMAA measurements showed: the SQ is just so much better.

 the guy to whom I sold my first STX to told me that he hated the HP out(he's got a RSA Predator, a cd3k and a dx1k)...he's using the line-out to his Predator.

 I think, indeed, that the HP out has nothing good going for it...you can easily imagine what a $1.5 chip does to your audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a much more expensive OPA2132P or OPA2107PA prolly has much more going for it, and atm I'm on 3% master volume on the line-out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the ST was much worse than the STX on the line-out(especially crosstalk), so I'm quite glad to use the part of the card that's better on the STX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think what made me switch in the first place was the ugly distorted sound the TI chip gives to your audio....but well, I've had 2 different STX and QA seems pretty lousy at the Chinese factory so it's hard to make generalities 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 all this said, three (free) OPA2132P sound pretty darn good on the line-out w/ my DT770/600Ω


----------



## taso89

The line-out straight to headphones won't have the control or speed of a dedicated amp, but it is still, in my own opinion, an upgrade to the built-in head amp.


----------



## leeperry

ok, so it matches what my friend w/ the Predator told me....this thing sounds better than the line-out, which already sounds better than the HP out.

 I can't use a tube amp as I got a pretty dumb cat, and tubes get really hot apparently? OTOH I find it kinda annoying to plug my demanding DT770/600Ω on a line-out..

 Ideally, I'd like to get a cheap CMI card(w/ these neato GPL bit-matched drivers) and send S/PDIF(stereo lossless LPCM) to whatever more "serious" external DAC+HP amp....but noone dares to actually compare these, so it's a tough call...and many would be tempted to try the HP out, which sounds pretty bad actually


----------



## anetode

I'm thinking of trying AD797 for the buffer & OPA627 for the two headphone opamps. Has anyone tried either of these two?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking of trying AD797 for the buffer & OPA627 for the two headphone opamps. Has anyone tried either of these two?_

 

That's an interesting combination. I've used the 627's extensively and I like their sound. The AD797 are very well regarded in audio forums but I haven't had a chance to use them in any application yet. Let us know how it works out. I'm interested in hearing the results.

 ROBSCIX is sending me a pair of LME49710HA and 49720HA on adapters to test out (and for much cheaper than I thought...thanks Rob!). I think these may end up being my favourite as I had a chance to briefly audition them before and I already love their younger siblings, the 49720NA, in the STX.

 Also, if I may diverge from the topic for a second, *anetode*, how do you feel the STX compares with the DA11 and Stello DACs? I haven't seen anyone do even a brief comparison of the STX with higher end DAC offerings and so I'm very curious.


----------



## takengo2003

Anyone here using STX on AKG K701/702? I need recommendation on what is the best combination on opamp/hdam to pair with k702. 
 my current setup is Foolbar > STX > AKG K702(burn in 200hrs). Currently, I am using Moon hdam in the buffer, and 2xLM4562 in the 2 channels. However, i find it a bit on the bright side, but i like the wide soundstage.

 I also have the following now to play op-row
 1)1x Moon hdam (in my STX now)
 2)1 x Earth hdam, 
 3)1 x Sun hdam 
 4)1 x LT1364 opamp
 5)2 x LT1361 opamp
 6)2 x LM4562 opamp (in my STX now)

 so which is the best combination to start off with, i know i can test one by one to hear the difference, but before that, i want to hear opinion from those who have try before.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone here using STX on AKG K701/702? I need recommendation on what is the best combination on opamp/hdam to pair with k702. 
 my current setup is Foolbar > STX > AKG K702(burn in 200hrs). Currently, I am using Moon hdam in the buffer, and 2xLM4562 in the 2 channels. However, i find it a bit on the bright side, but i like the wide soundstage.

 I also have the following now to play op-row
 1)1x Moon hdam (in my STX now)
 2)1 x Earth hdam, 
 3)1 x Sun hdam 
 4)1 x LT1364 opamp
 5)2 x LT1361 opamp
 6)2 x LM4562 opamp (in my STX now)

 so which is the best combination to start off with, i know i can test one by one to hear the difference, but before that, i want to hear opinion from those who have try before._

 

I can tell you now you won't like the L1361. It has a bright, thin sound. The 1364 was smoother and had a larger soundstage but didn't have too much bass. Overall, it was a good opamp though. Out of those listed, I've only used the last three and of them the LM4562 is my favourite and the 1364 a close second.


----------



## misc.

Does the STX have enough oopmh to drive a set of beyer DT990's (250 Ohm)? Looking at the tech specs: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf
 I'm a bit puzzled to whether there is enough power. 

 I already have a set of HD595s and the STX, and am looking at upgrading to the beyers.


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can tell you now you won't like the L1361. It has a bright, thin sound. The 1364 was smoother and had a larger soundstage but didn't have too much bass. Overall, it was a good opamp though. Out of those listed, I've only used the last three and of them the LM4562 is my favourite and the 1364 a close second._

 

hi, thanks for the feedback.

 so what do you suggest, is my moon + 2xlm4562 best option which i am currently using? or should i use Earth + 2xlm4562? Will earth hdam at the buffer tone down the brightness on the K702?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, thanks for the feedback.

 so what do you suggest, is my moon + 2xlm4562 best option which i am currently using? or should i use Earth + 2xlm4562? Will earth hdam at the buffer tone down the brightness on the K702?_

 

Sorry mate, can't help you there. I haven't tried any HDAMs/Discrete opamps. The smoothest opamps I've heard are the OPA637/627 and then the LME49720NA (which are very similar to the LM4562).


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sorry mate, can't help you there. I haven't tried any HDAMs/Discrete opamps. The smoothest opamps I've heard are the OPA637/627 and then the LME49720NA (which are very similar to the LM4562)._

 

ok, no problem.

 i presume you are using them on the 2 channels instead of the buffer right?


----------



## leeperry

..and the 49720NA is ear-splitting bright w/ anemic bass, just so you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there's no "best" solution w/ IC's anyway, so far the best I've heard is the (free) OPA2132P....but going burson would be a night & day anyway. your choice whether you wanna spend as much on the op-amps as you spent on the card itself.


----------



## Theresa

I am really enjoying the HP output of this card. Regardless of the op-amps it uses it is far better than the Realtek 889a onboard. I was disappointed in the one hp amp I tried and sent it back. This seems to have all I need with the hp output gain set to max. I'm not planning on messing with the opamps as they all seem to be trade-offs and it sounds balanced now.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone here using STX on AKG K701/702? I need recommendation on what is the best combination on opamp/hdam to pair with k702. 
 my current setup is Foolbar > STX > AKG K702(burn in 200hrs). Currently, I am using Moon hdam in the buffer, and 2xLM4562 in the 2 channels. However, i find it a bit on the bright side, but i like the wide soundstage.

 I also have the following now to play op-row
 1)1x Moon hdam (in my STX now)
 2)1 x Earth hdam, 
 3)1 x Sun hdam 
 4)1 x LT1364 opamp
 5)2 x LT1361 opamp
 6)2 x LM4562 opamp (in my STX now)

 so which is the best combination to start off with, i know i can test one by one to hear the difference, but before that, i want to hear opinion from those who have try before._

 

in general you should look for op-amp that has warm/less transparent (so the harshness of the K702 won't be so prominent and bothersome) and liquid/coherent signature (so it will be more musical).

 i tried LME49720HA, very coherent but also more-less neutral (except for the over-the-top bass, which works well with bass shy headphones). the harshness is still there in conjunction with K702 but it's still my favorite none the less.

 i also tried LME49720NA, it's one to go if you are a detail and soundstage freak but i found it grainy, very fatiguing in long-term and artificial at times. i would prefer stock op-amps over NA with K702. i got tired of the sour faces it gave me and ''omg, here we go..." with some passages in songs.

 i'm definitely going to try LT1057 some day, it's said to be warm with good soundtage. i don't know about coherency, maybe LT1057 users here would know.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm thinking of trying AD797 for the buffer & OPA627 for the two headphone opamps. Has anyone tried either of these two?_

 

The AD797 is a great opamp and the 627s are said to be one of the best audio opamps there is. I have tested the AD797 for buffer but haven't tried OPA627's for I/V. The real two opamps are called the Current to Votage converter section or I/V for short. The 627 should work great for I/V, give use your opinion if and when you try them out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hi, thanks for the feedback.

 so what do you suggest, is my moon + 2xlm4562 best option which i am currently using? or should i use Earth + 2xlm4562? Will earth hdam at the buffer tone down the brightness on the K702?_

 

Your using the LM4562NA for I/V and teh Moon for buffer?
 The Earth discretes are very neutral and very "tube" like in their response.
 If your response is too bright for your cans perhaps look at a different opamp then the LM4562 for buffer. The Earth buffer would smooth out the response somehwhat.
 Are you using the Line out or headphone out?
 If your using the headphone output, the buffer is not used in the circuit.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Theresa* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am really enjoying the HP output of this card. Regardless of the op-amps it uses it is far better than the Realtek 889a onboard. I was disappointed in the one hp amp I tried and sent it back. This seems to have all I need with the hp output gain set to max. I'm not planning on messing with the opamps as they all seem to be trade-offs and it sounds balanced now._

 

Not really trade offs just different responses. They all sound different, the trick is to find one that best suit your tastes. The guys looking for that perfect sound will never find it as it does not exist. It is only the perfect response according to you. If you like the sound now, great enjoy as many use the card stock and never swap opamps.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in general you should look for op-amp that has warm/less transparent (so the harshness of the K702 won't be so prominent and bothersome) and liquid/coherent signature (so it will be more musical).

 i tried LME49720HA, very coherent but also more-less neutral (except for the over-the-top bass, which works well with bass shy headphones). the harshness is still there in conjunction with K702 but it's still my favorite none the less.

 i also tried LME49720NA, it's one to go if you are a detail and soundstage freak but i found it grainy, very fatiguing in long-term and artificial at times. i would prefer stock op-amps over NA with K702. i got tired of the sour faces it gave me and ''omg, here we go..." with some passages in songs.

 i'm definitely going to try LT1057 some day, it's said to be warm with good soundtage. i don't know about coherency, maybe LT1057 users here would know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

The LT1057 are very clean,cealr and coherent. They are one of my favorite LT opamps and I have tested many of their amps. In fact I like this chip so much I am considering building a new LT1057 module using TO-99's.


----------



## dex85

^^good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i just underlined it in my 'must hear op-amps' list


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^good to know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i just underlined it in my 'must hear op-amps' list_

 

That is a very long list. I have been at the opamp game for a few years now and have a large collection myself and units to be built and units to be ordered.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Gets to be a bit of a hobby in itself...


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* 
_The LT1057 are very clean,cealr and coherent. They are one of my favorite LT opamps and I have tested many of their amps._

 

+1 to that


----------



## anetode

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, if I may diverge from the topic for a second, *anetode*, how do you feel the STX compares with the DA11 and Stello DACs? I haven't seen anyone do even a brief comparison of the STX with higher end DAC offerings and so I'm very curious._

 

The STX compares favorably with the DA11. The only differences I've noticed are a bit more "air" around the instruments and slightly better bass extension. Then again, these could be due to the respective headphone amps. FWIW, the HD800 sounds better out of the DA11 while the K701 works better with the STX.

 I currently use the STX as a digital transport/DSP for the DA11, as I prefer having physical volume controls.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_+1 to that_

 

I figured I may be able to get more sound quality for theat model by bumping up to the TO-99 opamps. I am considering sourcing some and testing them out in a few different circuits including the STX and ST.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX compares favorably with the DA11. The only differences I've noticed are a bit more "air" around the instruments and slightly better bass extension. Then again, these could be due to the respective headphone amps. FWIW, the HD800 sounds better out of the DA11 while the K701 works better with the STX.

 I currently use the STX as a digital transport/DSP for the DA11, as I prefer having physical volume controls._

 

There are many external amplifiers out there that would be a great match with those cans.
 The strong point of the STX/ST is the use of the PCM1792A Chip which gives the cards high quality sound for the line-outs.
 I would get a high end external amplifier and use the STX as a source for thos HD800's. Something with some nice tube flavor!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 If you have the gear to test there...this would be a good route.


----------



## anetode

I'll be rebuilding my setup w/ WA22 for balanced tube out & some solid state alternatives. That, and some op-amp rolling w/ the STX & Claro Halo, should yield an interesting comparison to post later


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be rebuilding my setup w/ WA22 for balanced tube out & some solid state alternatives. That, and some op-amp rolling w/ the STX & Claro Halo, should yield an interesting comparison to post later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Using the STX/ST for a source with some high grade opamps connected to a tube amplifier and balanced out...getting some great sounds there!
 Yes post back and let us know how it all sounds together.
 Have you considered what opamps your going to try for the STX?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i presume you are using them on the 2 channels instead of the buffer right?_

 

I've tried all the opamps (compatible with the STX) in my profile in both the buffer and I/V sections. I've found that no matter where you place the opamps, they seem to color the sound in the same way, but more substantially when in the I/V sections.
 As a reference BTW, my equipment is listed in my profile which consists of the STX lineout (3xLME49720NA) > M^3+Sigma 11 > HD650

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..and the 49720NA is ear-splitting bright w/ anemic bass, just so you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 there's no "best" solution w/ IC's anyway, so far the best I've heard is the (free) OPA2132P....but going burson would be a night & day anyway. your choice whether you wanna spend as much on the op-amps as you spent on the card itself._

 

The 49720NA is quite neutral in the treble when used from the line-outs. IME, the amp section of the STX makes the sound harsh.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The STX compares favorably with the DA11. The only differences I've noticed are a bit more "air" around the instruments and slightly better bass extension. Then again, these could be due to the respective headphone amps. FWIW, the HD800 sounds better out of the DA11 while the K701 works better with the STX.
 I currently use the STX as a digital transport/DSP for the DA11, as I prefer having physical volume controls.

 I'll be rebuilding my setup w/ WA22 for balanced tube out & some solid state alternatives. That, and some op-amp rolling w/ the STX & Claro Halo, should yield an interesting comparison to post later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Interesting. Glad to see the STX isn't far behind the heavy-hitters. Look forward to hearing your impressions on the new gear (relative to the STX).


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The 49720NA is quite neutral in the treble when used from the line-outs. IME, the amp section of the STX makes the sound harsh._

 

ok, thanks for the tip!

 I'm starting to realize that these STX/ST cards are way overpriced, considering how lousy the $1.50 HP amp is....and I hate the drivers(3 resident apps, fixed samplerate, buggy as can be, dumb GUI), so if I have to resort to the line-out to get a clean signal, I'm better off ditching it and get a "Deluxe Edition" Prodigy HD2($139 shipped, Sanyo OScon caps etc, OPA2134 op-amps and ESI EWDM bit-matched drivers): AUDIOTRAK Prodigy HD2 ADVANCE DE Sound Card 2-Channel

 I'll still use the line-out(3 swappable dual op-amps), and I'll grab a serious HP amp later on...plus I've always wanted to run an AK4396 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 besides there's something my left ear(I'm left handed) really doesn't like about these STX/ST cards, hard to explain(the STX gives me slight pain in the left ear after a little while, and the ST is instantly totally unbearable...a wild guess would be that some oscillator makes my left eardrum resonate badly...this never happened to me before, and doesn't happen w/ other soundcards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)..it's cheaper to swap soundcards than internal ears I heard anyhow


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *anetode* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be rebuilding my setup w/ WA22 for balanced tube out & some solid state alternatives. That, and some op-amp rolling w/ the STX & Claro Halo, should yield an interesting comparison to post later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Have you tried any other tube headphone amps using the STX for source?
 I ahve my eye on a few as I have been reading over schematics and I think I may be building one or two very soon.


----------



## Salvador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The LT1057 are very clean,cealr and coherent. They are one of my favorite LT opamps and I have tested many of their amps. In fact I like this chip so much I am considering building a new LT1057 module using TO-99's._

 

I just looked at their LT's website and there seems to be two models of the DIP 1057;

 LT1057ACN8
 LT1057CN8

 Just wondering what's the difference between the two?


----------



## ROBSCIX

You would have to check the spec sheets to find the specific differences between the two models. The coding tends to be different from company to company.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Salvador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1057ACN8
 LT1057CN8

 Just wondering what's the difference between the two?_

 

AC is a higher grade than C, and I is the extreme temp version.


----------



## jwatkins

Just a question for people with this card: with which price point of usb dacs/amps have you found this card comparable in terms of sound quality? Ta.


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your using the LM4562NA for I/V and teh Moon for buffer?
 The Earth discretes are very neutral and very "tube" like in their response.
 If your response is too bright for your cans perhaps look at a different opamp then the LM4562 for buffer. The Earth buffer would smooth out the response somehwhat.
 Are you using the Line out or headphone out?
 If your using the headphone output, the buffer is not used in the circuit._

 

i am using headphone out (2x lm4562) to k702, I know k702 nature is bright, i actually thought lm4562 will reduce the brightness of k702, but the brightness is still there. what is the nature of the sound for lm4562, is it bright too? 

 if get another pair of opamp for my headphone out, should i use LT1361 or LT1364 since i have both pairs.

 How about LT1057, nature of sound? i might be able to get it from my friend.


----------



## ROBSCIX

That is up to you try both and see which you like. Opamps are very subjective.

 Personally, I don't use the amplifier I use the line outs. 
 Also some have said the can amp can get bright if your use LM4562NA/LME49720 with the can amp.


----------



## takengo2003

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That is up to you try both and see which you like. Opamps are very subjective.

 Personally, I don't use the amplifier I use the line outs. 
 Also some have said the can amp can get bright if your use LM4562NA/LME49720 with the can amp._

 

how about LT1057, or suggest a opamp that is not bright in nature. thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Many have been having good results with the LT1057.
 How does your system sound to you is it too bright?


----------



## Bones2010

I have a question for the people who own the STX and don't use the amp. Why not just buy a DX2 and an external amp? It seems a waste to me not to use the amp.


----------



## crossbone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *takengo2003* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_how about LT1057, or suggest a opamp that is not bright in nature. thanks._

 

Hi there. Not bright, but a bit laid back:
 OPA2134 / OPA2132

 Try these with your K702. They should tame their highs.

 Ciao


----------



## Cynips

*@ takengo2003*: talking about opamps for the K702

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i finally received 49720HA soldered to an adapter today. so far i've got an hour of listening, so i don't want to sound too overenthusiastic. the first thing that stroke me was how coherent and liquid the sound is compared to NA. bass is finally present the way it should be. it's too early to make any conclusion but coherency with K701 left me mesmerized, it's nothing short of amazing._

 

You should definitely try out the 49720HA's (or possibly the single version 49710HA, but they need a special adapter solution). You don't have to use an adapter for the 720HA's but it helps, especially if you think you might be rolling more opamps in the future.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bones2010* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question for the people who own the STX and don't use the amp. Why not just buy a DX2 and an external amp? It seems a waste to me not to use the amp._

 

Compare the specifications, measurments and sound quality of the STX line out compared to the D2X line out and then post back.
 Not all buy the card for the headphone amplifier. IMO, it is the cards DAC quality that is the major point of this product.


----------



## Bones2010

I didn't realize that the STX was so much better than the D2. I thought they used the same dac?


----------



## RicHSAD

Just put in 2xOPA2228P! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I like what I am hearing so far ... Everything seems to be more detailed and there seems to be a lot more space/air into the sound. No clue how they stack up to other opamps, but it definitely sounds better than the stock JRCs.

 I also got 2 lt1057acn8, but I think I will wait a few days before putting them in.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RicHSAD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just put in 2xOPA2228P! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I also got 2 lt1057acn8, but I think I will wait a few days before putting them in._

 

Must compare. I got 2 x LT1057CN8's here.
 Also I'm guessing the OPA2228PA is different from the OPA2228P?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Check the spec sheet the difference between PA and P may be nothing that is audible. Just a environmental concern suchas no lead...etc. These codes vary from company to company. The 2228's are ok similar to the OPA2227's as they have some great bass from my testing.


----------



## Seaside

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Check the spec sheet the difference between PA and P may be nothing that is audible. Just a environmental concern suchas no lead...etc. These codes vary from company to company. The 2228's are ok similar to the OPA2227's as they have some great bass from my testing._

 

Regarding P and PA, I pretty much agree what ROBSCIX said. PA is what they called Audio version, what it really means is "Less precise" version. That's why PA is cheaper than P, and there's no audible differences.

 Don't know what's wrong with my 2227s or 2228s. I feel their sounds quite different. 2227 sound is like even fatter, tubbier, bass heavy version of 2134 sound while 2228 sound is detailed, wide, nice but not overly heavy bass, with slightly recessed mid. I will take 2134 and 2228 any time, but for 2227...

 Anyway, they are not that expensive. Just try them both.


----------



## RicHSAD

So I just put in the two lt1057s(couldn't wait haha) and I can hear quite a bit of distortion/artifacts when using the line out. No problem when using the HP amp.. odd.

 Edit: Put the OPA2228P back in and problem solved.. Oh well .. I think I might like their sound better anyway.


----------



## gurubhai

posting once again after a long time. I thought I had found my ideal opamp in LT1057.
 Recently I bought HD580 & I found that with LT1057 they had recessed mids .

 So, I switched back to LME49720HA & voila- the mids opened up, the bass is excellent & extends very low.
 All in all, a considerable improvement over LT1057 which were a great combo with my HD595. May be the forward mids of HD595 complemented with them.

 Anyway, I have learnt that there is no one opamp for all setups, one has to adjust according to other peices in the chain.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I switched back to LME49720HA & voila- the mids opened up, the bass is excellent & extends very low.
 All in all, a considerable improvement over LT1057_

 

you did try the OPA2132P, right? they're far more "grainy" and detailed in the mids IMO...something's not right in the 49720HA mids, like Andrea said.


----------



## gurubhai

yes, I have tried OPA2132p but that was with different cans.
 Right now, i am not finding anything lacking from my current setup so I am not really looking to start opamp rolling again.


----------



## leeperry

but anyway, that's good you said that...coz I guess my LT1057 will never show up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm still eager to try the LME49722


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, I have tried OPA2132p but that was with different cans.
 Right now, i am not finding anything lacking from my current setup so I am not really looking to start opamp rolling again._

 

I find the 2132 similar to the 2134 but very plain sounding in comparison. If you have a setup you enjoy, stick with it.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RicHSAD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I just put in the two lt1057s(couldn't wait haha) and I can hear quite a bit of distortion/artifacts when using the line out. No problem when using the HP amp.. odd.

 Edit: Put the OPA2228P back in and problem solved.. Oh well .. I think I might like their sound better anyway._

 

When you installed the LT1057's for I/V what did you use for the buffer?


----------



## RicHSAD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you installed the LT1057's for I/V what did you use for the buffer?_

 

Left the stock one there.


----------



## Bojamijams

I thought the 1057 served better as a buffer rather then I/V?


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, I am sure they serve better as I/V over buffer.


----------



## RicHSAD

Any ideas as to what could have been causing this?


----------



## Bojamijams

Strange... try it one more time.. maybe there was something about the way it was seated in the socket the last time


----------



## ROBSCIX

I never heard any type of distortion when I was testing them. Are you using the line outs or the headphoen amp?


----------



## gurubhai

I never had any distortion with LT1057 either


----------



## ROBSCIX

What LT1057 model is everybody using, perhaps that may be the key?


----------



## RicHSAD

I have definitely seen at least one other person with the ACN8s.


----------



## gurubhai

I used LT1057ACN8 for about a month & a half.


----------



## RicHSAD

Running a LT1057 as buffer right now with the two OPA2228s as I/V. No artifacts/distortion that I can hear so far, but I'll have to listen some more. Sounds good, but I can't really tell if it is better or not.


----------



## walsh

I'm having real trouble finding a good combination. First I got 2 LT1057s and found them unbearably hollow, and the trebles were too loud and harsh. I replaced these with the LME49720HA which were a lot better but I couldn't use 3 of them because the trebles were too loud. They are more energetic than the stock JRCs but only the JRCs seem to have the right balance of bass, mid and treble. So I use 2 of the LMEs with 1 JRC in the buffer. I would like to find an op-amp to replace the JRC, something with an increased mid and lowered treble which complements the LME's loud treble, but only if it's an improvement over the JRC. I don't know why everyone says the JRC is no good, it lacks a bit of detail but is a lot better than the 1057s in my opinion.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having real trouble finding a good combination. First I got 2 LT1057s and found them unbearably hollow, and the trebles were too loud and harsh. I replaced these with the LME49720HA which were a lot better but I couldn't use 3 of them because the trebles were too loud. They are more energetic than the stock JRCs but only the JRCs seem to have the right balance of bass, mid and treble. So I use 2 of the LMEs with 1 JRC in the buffer. I would like to find an op-amp to replace the JRC, something with an increased mid and lowered treble which complements the LME's loud treble, but only if it's an improvement over the JRC. I don't know why everyone says the JRC is no good, it lacks a bit of detail but is a lot better than the 1057s in my opinion._

 

What is the setup you're using to listen to music (in addition to the STX)? And also, may I ask what genre(s) you're listening to?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having real trouble finding a good combination. First I got 2 LT1057s and found them unbearably hollow, and the trebles were too loud and harsh. I replaced these with the LME49720HA which were a lot better but I couldn't use 3 of them because the trebles were too loud. They are more energetic than the stock JRCs but only the JRCs seem to have the right balance of bass, mid and treble. So I use 2 of the LMEs with 1 JRC in the buffer. I would like to find an op-amp to replace the JRC, something with an increased mid and lowered treble which complements the LME's loud treble, but only if it's an improvement over the JRC. I don't know why everyone says the JRC is no good, it lacks a bit of detail but is a lot better than the 1057s in my opinion._

 

Your right. Avoid 3 of the same type as when used for I/V and buffer the good points and bad points compound. It is not that the JRC's are bad, consider the stock specs of the STX. They are quite good but compared to others they leave a bit to be desired.
 Maybe a 2134 might be the ticket for the buffer for you. They have the laid back burr brown sound which is to say a glossy high range which tends to smooth over rougher signatures. It is really hard to give an exact recommendation as it would involve testing to get a perfect match for you and your gear.
 What type of speakers and cans are you using?


----------



## walsh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Cynips* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the setup you're using to listen to music (in addition to the STX)? And also, may I ask what genre(s) you're listening to?_

 

Amp: Yamaha ax-597
 Speakers: Quad 11L

 For genre I listen to just about everything: rock, classical, ambient, metal. Classical and ambient sound pretty good using just the LMEs but rock guitars are slightly too high-pitched with not a lot of "oomph". Cymbals are sometimes overpowering.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amp: Yamaha ax-597
 Speakers: Quad 11L

 For genre I listen to just about everything: rock, classical, ambient, metal. Classical and ambient sound pretty good using just the LMEs but rock guitars are slightly too high-pitched with not a lot of "oomph". Cymbals are sometimes overpowering._

 

Well, yeah, I think there's quite a bit of difference in synergy with different setups. I'm listening via the headphone out and my cans are on the warm side of the sound spectrum to begin with, so it would explain why we get so vastly different results. Genre-wise I'm relatively eclectic too, so I don't think that's got anything to do with it.

 I fear the day I decide to get an external amp and have to deal with the buffer too...


----------



## walsh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Your right. Avoid 3 of the same type as when used for I/V and buffer the good points and bad points compound. It is not that the JRC's are bad, consider the stock specs of the STX. They are quite good but compared to others they leave a bit to be desired.
 Maybe a 2134 might be the ticket for the buffer for you. They have the laid back burr brown sound which is to say a glossy high range which tends to smooth over rougher signatures. It is really hard to give an exact recommendation as it would involve testing to get a perfect match for you and your gear.
 What type of speakers and cans are you using?_

 

Thanks, I ordered two units of the 2134. I'll let you know how they do!


----------



## ROBSCIX

I think they may be what your after. They should smooth out the trebles a bit more for your if using them for the buffer position and the LME's in the I/V stages.
 Let us know if they work as I think they should. If they don't work as you need them to. Let me know, I will go through my own opamps collection and do some testing with your problem in mind and figure out a better fit.

 Take care.


----------



## RicHSAD

Trying 2xLT1057 with a OPA2228 as buffer and there is definitely something wrong again. It is a bit hard to notice but I can definitely hear some crackles in the high frequencies sometimes. I hear no such thing when using the HP amp.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Does this happen with the LT1057 and certain buffer opamps buffers or with any buffer you use?


----------



## RicHSAD

With the Lt1057s in I/V, I had issues with both the OPA2228 and the stock LM4562 as buffer.

 Running 2xOPA2228+LM4562 right now and everything is fine. 2xOPA2228+LT1057 was also fine.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Hmm. Do you use the card just in HI-fi mode or do you add EQ or any DSP?


----------



## RicHSAD

I use the EQ when using my headphones, but I only touch the low frequencies. I could hear the "crackling" with both my headphones and my speakers when using the line out. Didn't apply any other effects.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Thi is a strange one as others using the same chips are not having the same problems.
 Not sure what to tell you, wish I could help you more.
 This is only when using certain opamps for buffer though right?


----------



## RicHSAD

Well I don't have any other opamp to try as buffer beside the stock JRCs. I just don't have enough op-amp to confirm for sure if the problem exist only with certain op-amp in the buffer spot or all of them. Had problems with the two that I tested, so the trend so far is that no matter what I put in there the problem will occur if the LT1057s are used as I/V.

 I don't think I will put too much effort in trying to figure out the problem anyway. Pretty sure I prefer the sound of the 2228s in I/V anyway. They seem to be a little more laid-back/smoother, which works pretty well with my Klipsch speakers and ATH-AD900 headphones.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Maybe in the next few days I can get some time to do some testing and see if I can shed some light on this issue with the LT1057's your having.


----------



## RicHSAD

That would be great. Thanks!


----------



## nivlek

Which gain setting should be set for hd650? Will extra high gain demage the cans?

 High Gain (+12dB for 64~300 ohms) 
 Extra High Gain (+18dB for 300~600 ohms)


----------



## Bojamijams

No it won't damage them. Just the high gain first and see if it can loud enough for you. If it doesn't, even at max volume, then switch to extra high gain.


----------



## RicHSAD

Robscix, I did some more testing with the LT1057s. I found out that if I reduce the volume of the Essence but increase the volume of the amp instead the problem seems to disappear. Is maxing out the volume of the Essence supposed to be a problem?

 I found a good track to notice the problem: Prometheus - Arcadia Magik. Right at the beginning, when the bass starts hitting, I can clearly hear some distortion. Turning down the volume of the Essence down to 50% and increasing the volume of the amp to compensate eliminates the problem. Note that I also have the volume of foobar maxed out.

 I never have the Essence above 40% when using the HP amp, so this could explain I would only get this problem when using the line out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well that is good you figured it out. Perhaps the opamps are having an issue with you driving the inputs that high as they are a bit different then the stock models. I never turn my volumes levels very high internally so this is probably why I never noticed any distortion.


----------



## ROBSCIX

*Essence ST Distribution Update!*

 Hey guys, I used my review contacts to get some official information from ASUS on the Essence ST.
 These cards will be coming to the USA, very soon. I do not have an exact date but most likely mid October. This is not a maybe, this is a for sure.
 I hope that helps for you guys that are waiting and wondering if it is coming to America.
 I will see if I can get further locations and dates for those in other locations. I will also see if I can get further information on the H6 DAC expansion board release.


----------



## walsh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think they may be what your after. They should smooth out the trebles a bit more for your if using them for the buffer position and the LME's in the I/V stages.
 Let us know if they work as I think they should. If they don't work as you need them to. Let me know, I will go through my own opamps collection and do some testing with your problem in mind and figure out a better fit.

 Take care._

 

UPDATE: Big thumbs up! I put the OP2134 in the buffer and the highs smoothed out and it instantly sounds overall tighter, more energetic. I'll try switching the I/V and buffer but right now i'm happy enough as it is. Big thanks again!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_UPDATE: Big thumbs up! I put the OP2134 in the buffer and the highs smoothed out and it instantly sounds overall tighter, more energetic. I'll try switching the I/V and buffer but right now i'm happy enough as it is. Big thanks again!_

 

Great!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Glad I could help.


----------



## Salvador

First of all my equipment:

 Paradigm Studio 100's
 Odyssey Khartago Amps
 Integra 9.9 Pre/Pro 
 X-Fi Elite as transport to Integra 9.9 via SPDIF (My reference system)
 Asus STX via Analog-in Pure Direct mode

 Songs used to test in FLAC format:

 Imogen Heap - Ellipse
 Duffy - Rockferry
 Rage Against the Machine - debut album
 Arctic Monkeys - Humbug

 Impressions:

 LT1057ACN (I/V) and LME4562NA (Buffer)

 - Soundstage was a little laid back
 - Separation of instruments wasn't obviously discernible
 - Mid-bass was more emphasized
 - Prominent bass
 - Overall it wasn't an engaging listening experience for me. It seemed very average and it was a slight improvement from the stock JRC opamps.

 LME49720HA (I/V) and LME49710HA (Buffer)

 - Soundstage opened up quite a bit and vocals were more focused towards the center
 - Separation of instruments was more discernible
 - Mid-bass was less prominent
 - Bass overall was less but extension was still present
 - Overall I think that it sounded a little bit thinner than what i'm used to with the Integra 9.9. There was a slight improvement in the soundstage over the 9.9 but it wasn't that big of a difference. 
 - Keep in mind that I've only had this configuration for 2 days so my impressions are preliminary

 I was expecting the 720/710 combo to blow the Integra 9.9 out of the water in 2-channel but I guess that was a bit too much to expect. Both sound amazing and it's a testament to the STX that it can provide sound quality comparable to a pre/pro that retails for over $2000.

 Kudos to ROBSCIX for supplying me with the 720/710 opamps. I wouldn't have been able to test them without his help.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Salvador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_First of all my equipment:

 Paradigm Studio 100's
 Odyssey Khartago Amps
 Integra 9.9 Pre/Pro 
 X-Fi Elite as transport to Integra 9.9 via SPDIF (My reference system)
 Asus STX via Analog-in Pure Direct mode

 Songs used to test in FLAC format:

 Imogen Heap - Ellipse
 Duffy - Rockferry
 Rage Against the Machine - debut album
 Arctic Monkeys - Humbug

 Impressions:

 LT1057ACN (I/V) and LME4562NA (Buffer)

 - Soundstage was a little laid back
 - Separation of instruments wasn't obviously discernible
 - Mid-bass was more emphasized
 - Prominent bass
 - Overall it wasn't an engaging listening experience for me. It seemed very average and it was a slight improvement from the stock JRC opamps.

 LME49720HA (I/V) and LME49710HA (Buffer)

 - Soundstage opened up quite a bit and vocals were more focused towards the center
 - Separation of instruments was more discernible
 - Mid-bass was less prominent
 - Bass overall was less but extension was still present
 - Overall I think that it sounded a little bit thinner than what i'm used to with the Integra 9.9. There was a slight improvement in the soundstage over the 9.9 but it wasn't that big of a difference. 
 - Keep in mind that I've only had this configuration for 2 days so my impressions are preliminary

 I was expecting the 720/710 combo to blow the Integra 9.9 out of the water in 2-channel but I guess that was a bit too much to expect. Both sound amazing and it's a testament to the STX that it can provide sound quality comparable to a pre/pro that retails for over $2000.

 Kudos to ROBSCIX for supplying me with the 720/710 opamps. I wouldn't have been able to test them without his help. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Good timing, I posted my impressions just a few hours before yours and found the exact same thing WRT to the 49710/49720HA. You can find it *here*. 

 I highly recommend you keep the 49710HA in the buffer and install the 49720*NA* in the I/V. This is my preferred combo; it adds warmth and removes the slightly cold treble of the 49720HA while retaining its characteristic mid-centric presentation. Bass is definitely more present as well, but not overblown like the stock opamps. I think you'll be pleased with the results.

 In short: switch the 49720HA for the 49720NA (readily available as DIP-8) and keep the 49710HA in the buffer.


----------



## Salvador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good timing, I posted my impressions just a few hours before yours and found the exact same thing WRT to the 49710/49720HA. You can find it *here*. 

 I highly recommend you keep the 49710HA in the buffer and install the 49720*NA* in the I/V. This is my preferred combo; it adds warmth and removes the slightly cold treble of the 49720HA while retaining its characteristic mid-centric presentation. Bass is definitely more present as well, but not overblown like the stock opamps. I think you'll be pleased with the results.

 In short: switch the 49720HA for the 49720NA (readily available as DIP-8) and keep the 49710HA in the buffer._

 

Cool I will try that out. I don't have any 49720NA's with me but i'll see if i can get my hands on a couple to try out.

 Thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Glad your enjoying them.


----------



## Cynips

Just wanted to share the impressions of the LT1612 and OPA2211 that I've posted in the opamp thread:

LT1612AID

OPA2211AIDDA

 Both are listened to via the headphone analog out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I built some dual 1611's and they sound quite good. I haven't got around to the 1612's yet. The OPA211's are also great I have been using them for quite a while.


 Are they keepers for your setup?

 Ever Consider some TO-99 version of your beloved LT1057's?
 Are you still using them?


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I built some dual 1611's and they sound quite good. I haven't got around to the 1612's yet. The OPA211's are also great I have been using them for quite a while.


 Are they keepers for your setup?

 Ever Consider some TO-99 version of your beloved LT1057's?
 Are you still using them?_

 

I could live with the OPA2211 (better than the 1612 IMHO), but the LT1057's are what I put back in after a finished session (which can last quite a few days mind you). I still haven't found (or really looked around much more) for a metal can version of them. Somehow I find it difficult to believe they would be better, almost. That said, however, I would be very interested in trying a TO-99 version out. I'm moving to another city in a few weeks, so I've got enough other things on my mind. I'll probably give it a try once things settle down in November or so.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well we know the To-99 version of other opamps sound better then the chips version. I think the LT1057 would also follow this.
 Yes, I like the 211's also in this card and others. I havn't built any 1612's yet as I usually go with the dual singl channle version over single dual channel version of a chip as they usually soudn better based on my tests and what I have read from others.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Any OPA2228P / OPA2228PA vs. LT1057 impressions?

 That = fantastic if someone could provide one. Probably need a a decent buffer opamp as well. Any suggestions for a balanced sounding headphone?


----------



## RicHSAD

To me, the OPA2228P sound smooth and laid back, yet still detailed. Very pleasant to listen to. The LT1057ACN8 are definitely brighter and more aggressive. Good for electronic music, but they sometimes felt "lifeless" to me when listening to other genres.

 Using the line out with the stock buffer, I felt the highs were a bit too tamed with the 2228P and too harsh with the 1057ACN8. Overall, I very much preferred the sound of the OPA2228 over the LT1057 in I/V, but you have to keep in mind that both my speakers and headphones are quite bright and aggressive to begin with. Really liking the sound of the OPAs through the HP out with my ATH-AD900.

 I decided to swap the stock buffer for the LT1057 and so far I like what I am hearing. It seems to bring a little bit of brightness back into the sound, without taking the life out of it. I'll need to do some more back and forth between the LM4562 and LT1057 to be sure I really like this combo better.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Thanks. The other opamps = a tad expensive for my liking so the OPA2228P / OPA2228PA might be nice to try. Definitely like a buffer comparison


----------



## ROBSCIX

Use what works for you and your sound system.


----------



## genclaymore

These 2xLME4920HA's in I/V and 2xLME4910HA's in buffer sounds great,I enjoying this combo very well. Sound is more clean also like the sound stage is bigger and more =D.I even love the bass with this combo, I cant explain it.

 Now I need to find some RCA cables that isnt fat like the ones I bought off monoprice for connection my Ampilfer to my HDAV RCA. As these monoprice cables are staticing since there too fat and dont drop down right behind my table.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You get them did you? Great stuff!


----------



## genclaymore

Yea I got them friday and forgot to let you know.


----------



## ROBSCIX

What do you think of the units?
 The dual LME49710HA is being used by two others around here and they gave positive feedback so far.
 They are using the dual LME49710HA as buffers on the STX...


----------



## genclaymore

There great thanks again, you wouldnt happen to know where i could find slim RCA male cables. that not thick like cable wire.


----------



## haphalsou

Thank you so much for the post. It's really useful.


----------



## Funky-kun

Got my C2C today and ran it through the line-out. Two things to note:

 1) What this amp has over the STX amplifier is driving force, therefore control. Everything is more focused, notes start and end precisely when they have to and sustained bass notes retain their power through. 

 2) 2x LME49720 with LM4562 in the buffer is too bright of a combination and lacks the lowest bass octave. Therefore I overcame my fears and fitted a LME49720HA in the DIP8 socket by adjusting and cutting down the pins. No explosions after booting, so successful installation I guess. xD I don't have any soldering skills, otherwise I would have used an adapter (or a dual adapter for 49710s). 

 The sound in comparison to the old combo was a tad more refined, and balanced overall. Highs, mids and lows were in a better proportion. Especially the lower end - I feel there is more extension now. 

 Now two questions:

 Would 3x LME49720HA be too much for the bass department in my combo? (C2C into HD650s)? For reference, I liked the HP out with 2x49720NA balance-wise.

 Anyone know where to order 49710s on an adapter?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LME49720NA and the LM4562NA are identical opamps acoridng to the specs and Nationals info. Usually using three of the same opamp will yeild poor results as what you find good or bad about the opamps will compound. This is usually dependant on the opamp as you may like the signature.

 There are a couple STX owners here that use the Dual LME49710HA on an adapter. These units were built by me for their cards.


----------



## Salvador

2x LME49720NA (I/V) 1x dual LME49710HA (buffer) Impressions:

 I tried out this combo last night and I think I prefer the 720NA's over the 720HA's in the I/V section when pairing it up with the dual 710HA's. 

 There's a bit more bass with the 720NA's which I prefer. The 720HA's has a bit of an edge with the highs but at the expense of bass.

 One of the biggest differences that I found though is that the vocal projection in the soundstage is more focused towards the middle rather than dispersed. With the 720HA's, I felt the singer's voice was coming from all sides as opposed to coming from the center.


----------



## ROBSCIX

So your keeping the 720NA and the Dual 710HA for buffer combo?

 There are a few that prefer the 720NA over the HA's. The Ha's seem to have less bass with certain setups.

 What do you hear when comparing the single 720HA over the dual 710HA module?


----------



## Salvador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So your keeping the 720NA and the Dual 710HA for buffer combo?

 There are a few that prefer the 720NA over the HA's. The Ha's seem to have less bass with certain setups.

 What do you hear when comparing the single 720HA over the dual 710HA module?_

 

Yes i prefer the 720NA's over the 720HA's for I/V. Kudos btw to shahrose for suggesting this. On my paradigm studio 100's, the bass response is better on the 720NA's. The vocal placement and localization of instruments is also better on the 720NA's.

 I haven't switched around the dual 710HA's at buffer yet . I'll switch the buffer to 720NA's then 720HA's to test later on. For now I'm still in the process of evaluating 720NA's for I/V and 710HA's for buffer.

 I'll post my impressions once I test


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure. Do you enjoy the sound of the 710HA for buffer?


----------



## Salvador

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sure. Do you enjoy the sound of the 710HA for buffer?_

 

Oh yeah for sure. 

 But at this point I'll switch around the opamps for the buffer while keeping the I/V's the same. After that i'll be able to better decipher the differences between the 710HA, 720NA/HA in the buffer position.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sounds great, post your impressions. I am interested to hear what others think of the Dual LME49710HA module.


----------



## penguindude

Anyone knows how the 1792A (STX dac chip) compares to the AK4396 miracle DAC chip?


----------



## ROBSCIX

If we compres specifications of just the chips the 1792A surpasses the AK4396

*PCM 1792A*
 SNR:127dB
 DYN:127dB
 THD+N:-110dB

 Spec sheet-> Link

*AK4396*
 SNR:120dB
 DYN:120dB
 THD+N:-100dB

 Spec sheet->Link

 These numbers are spec values so usually for real world values providing a decent circuit the actual measurments would be about -3dB difference from the spec values.
 -Usually, devices using the AK4396 DAC will hit about 116-117dB for SNR and the STX and ST which use the 1796A are about 124dB SNR.
 It is hard to judge an audio design just based on the spec values fo the DAC. Although they are a good indicator there is more to the sound quality then just the DAC. The overall sound quality is based on the filtering and output sections along with power, design and component choices.
 The PCM1796A is fairly new in soundcards designs but there are many popular soundcards and many external DAC's built upon the AK4396 DAC chip.

 Hope that Helps.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Salvador* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes i prefer the 720NA's over the 720HA's for I/V. Kudos btw to shahrose for suggesting this. On my paradigm studio 100's, the bass response is better on the 720NA's. The vocal placement and localization of instruments is also better on the 720NA's.

 I haven't switched around the dual 710HA's at buffer yet . I'll switch the buffer to 720NA's then 720HA's to test later on. For now I'm still in the process of evaluating 720NA's for I/V and 710HA's for buffer.

 I'll post my impressions once I test 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

I found the 20HA to be a bit hot up top. It added sibilance to tracks I know did not contain any since I've heard them on other fairly solid equipment, including my own speaker setup. The NA I found had a wider soundstage, slightly better imaging, definitely more bass and a smoother/more natural treble that wasn't any less extended than the 20HA.


----------



## Ra97oR

Does changing the buffer changes the sound on headphone out? I thought it on changes the line out right?


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, the buffer is only for the line out.

 The I/V affect both line out and can output.


----------



## gurubhai

... & all three opamps affecting lineout also affect headphones if using an external amp connected to lineout.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Ok decision time!

 Since Sharrose also has a STX + Rockhopper M3 combo like me I read his opinions with extra attention for synergy reasons and it looks like the LME49720NA in I/V looks like a very safe bet and I'll probably no doubt order them since they're relatively quite cheap compared to the other combos here. I'd rather not use adapters.

 I know that there have been 3 x LME49720NA (2 in I/V, 1 in buffer) comparisons but this is a long thread so could anyone restate their impressions of them?
 Any good DIP8 opamp options for the buffer for the LME49720NA's?

 EDIT: So I've read that 3x of something = not so good.
 mmmm.....my current LT1057's in the buffer could be an option....it's a bassyish opamp.
 Any other suggestions = much appreciated.


----------



## RicHSAD

Trying OPA2228P+2xOPA2107AP atm and I'm liking it. Getting really hard to tell what's better. The only setup I didn't like so far was the LT1057s in I/V.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I found the 20HA to be a bit hot up top. It added sibilance to tracks I know did not contain any since I've heard them on other fairly solid equipment, including my own speaker setup. The NA I found had a wider soundstage, slightly better imaging, definitely more bass and a smoother/more natural treble that wasn't any less extended than the 20HA._

 

it's interesting how different setup/headphones can lead to different results. i'm using stx's headphone out and i'm getting much more bass from HA than NA. also sibilance is much more present with NA than HA. basically i couldn't take NA after some time because of the piercing highs. on the other hand, i'm too experiencing wider soundstage and better imaging with NA.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's interesting how different setup/headphones can lead to different results. i'm using stx's headphone out and i'm getting much more bass from HA than NA. also sibilance is much more present with NA than HA. basically i couldn't take NA after some time because of the piercing highs. on the other hand, i'm too experiencing wider soundstage and better imaging with NA._

 

This is pretty much my experience with those amps and the headphone out. I'm guessing the latest debacle around the LT1057ACN8 is due to different combinations of I/V, buffer or headphone amplifiers rather than actual cans (though they're obviously influencing the overall experience too).


----------



## dex85

^^ +1, a good thing about headphone out is that i don't have to worry about buffer. i imagine it takes a lot more tweaking and swaps to hit a sweet spot when buffer is a factor.


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ +1, a good thing about headphone out is that i don't have to worry about buffer. i imagine it takes a lot more tweaking and swaps to hit a sweet spot when buffer is a factor._

 

Yes, which is why I fear the day I take the step into separate headphone amplifier world


----------



## crossbone

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RicHSAD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Trying OPA2228P+2xOPA2107AP atm and I'm liking it. Getting really hard to tell what's better. The only setup I didn't like so far was the LT1057s in I/V._

 

Well the LT1057 are getting hit hard in the last time  What did you not like about those? I Used the 2107AP for about 7-8 Weeks now and i am also impressed. They are nearly perfect, but i want more "in your face sound" the frequecy responste on the 2107AP is perfect... but right now i am trying the LT1364. 
 In terms of frequency response they are very similar to the 2107. But the soundstage is more narrow -> more "in your face". So far i like it. But, when listening at higher volumes the highs sometimes get harsh...

 greetings from germany
 cross

 p.s.@ Cynips: Right now i am listening to one of my favourite metal Bands. Coming from Falun, Sweden which seems to be where you live  Guess which band


----------



## Cynips

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crossbone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_p.s.@ Cynips: Right now i am listening to one of my favourite metal Bands. Coming from Falun, Sweden which seems to be where you live  Guess which band _

 

Since Sabaton is pretty much the only metal band I know of that's my guess


----------



## RicHSAD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *crossbone* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the LT1057 are getting hit hard in the last time  What did you not like about those?_

 

The highs were too shrill/harsh which was quite a bad combo with my Klipsch speakers. Through the HP out, they just didn't sound as good as the OPA2228/2107s. Too harsh again I think, like they were sucking the life out of the music hehe.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Having the buffer opamps in the mix can really help with certain aspects. You can use it to smooth out certain responses or for other tasks..s


----------



## pelson

The only think im trying to figure out now is how the Dolby Headphone works, isn't there any defenite setting here? like 2 channel for music, 6 channels for movies and 8 channels for gaming? Or can I have it on "2 Channels" all the time and still get fully functional Dolby Headphone?

 Also, when right-clicking Speakers in Windows mixer and pressing "Configure", should i tick "Full-Range Speakers"? I use the Essence with HD-650 and Z-5500. 

 Thanks!


----------



## Bojamijams

Don't use full-range speakers with the Z-5500 since they have a sub.


----------



## pelson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't use full-range speakers with the Z-5500 since they have a sub._

 

Ok, so I have to change it from On to Off everytime I'm switching between the headphone and the z-5500? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks!


----------



## genclaymore

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Don't use full-range speakers with the Z-5500 since they have a sub._

 

When I read Z-5500 I remembering them being listed as Full range speakers, I know I looked at the info a couple of times. I have always used Full range when I had them installed in my room earlier this year. I made sure and they was indeed Full range speakers.

 I did try them with them set to off but I didnt like them with it off other then it being a hassle to turn it off and on with headphones.


----------



## pelson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When I read Z-5500 I remembering them being listed as Full range speakers, I know I looked at the info a couple of times. I have always used Full range when I had them installed in my room earlier this year. I made sure and they was indeed Full range speakers.

 I did try them with them set to off but I didnt like them with it off other then it being a hassle to turn it off and on with headphones._

 

Thanks for the info!

 So i guess the HD-650 should have Full-Range Speakers checked aswell?
 Wierd thing it was off by default on my computer, so I've had the z-5500 unticked for 2 years. It was just now when i got the HD-650 i discovered it.

 *Edit* If i want to use "PLII Music" effect on my z-5500 with the Essence, do i also have to check the "Dolby Virtual Speaker" in Xonar Audio Center?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's interesting how different setup/headphones can lead to different results. i'm using stx's headphone out and i'm getting much more bass from HA than NA. also sibilance is much more present with NA than HA. basically i couldn't take NA after some time because of the piercing highs. on the other hand, i'm too experiencing wider soundstage and better imaging with NA._

 


 I won't argue this because my results are based solely off the line-outs as I find them to sound significantly better than the HP-out.


----------



## awesom-o

there seems to be a new beta driver out, but only for the ST and windows 7.
 Driver version 7.12.8.1774. 

 Anyone tried them, or maybe made them work with the stx?


----------



## Shahrose

So after about a month of use and comparing the LME opamps. Here's what I've come up with:

 The HA's aren't the greatest for bass. In fact, for overall sound, I personally think 3xLME49720NA are still the best. For detail and a neutral (but light) bass presentation, the LME49710HA are best. The LME49720HA I don't really like as they sound like brighter, thinner, and compressed versions of the 49720NA.

 I don't want to misguide anyone as previously I had stated in my preliminary listening that the LME49710HA was the best overall opamp in my system. As always, YMMV.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *awesom-o* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_there seems to be a new beta driver out, but only for the ST and windows 7.
 Driver version 7.12.8.1774. 

 Anyone tried them, or maybe made them work with the stx?_

 

Using for a long time, nothing new, nothing wrong...


----------



## Ardent

Hi folks, I need some advice.

 I mostly come from a speaker not headphone background, but I've been thinking of picking up a STX.

 Headphone-wise, my current setup is a Auzentech Prelude PCI, mated to AKG 701 and Denon AH-D7000. 

 The op-amp on the prelude is a pair of twin OPA637SM (the mil-spec TO99 metal version) with adaptor, bought from Auzentech direct for an extra $250 as a special present for myself here







 I absolutely adore the detail and clarity of the 637SM, and am very fond of it. However, I'm building a new computer, and because of a lack of PCI slots, I need a new PCI-E card. Hence I'm looking at a STX, since I don't want to wait around for the Auzentech Bravura. I have a few questions:

 1) I would probably like to use the OPA637SMs again. Because the ASUS op-amp replacement instructions ask for a 2 op-amp on 8 pin package, and 637SMs are 1 op-amp per chip, I will need a second pair of 637SMs + adaptor, correct?

 2) Photos of the STX suggest that it has a large metal cover over it. WIll there be any clearance issues with the cover or any other component if I use the adaptor?

 3) Has anyone run 637SMs on the card before, and if so, how did it come out?

 4) If I'm not going to be using the RCA outputs (just the headphone and the digital SPDIF), is there any point in my changing the buffer op-amp? _[If there is a point in changing the buffer, then what would people recommend to best match the 637SMs? Also if so, please could you recommend a site either US or UK where it could be purchased cheaply and hassle free?]_

 Many, many thanks if you can help me with my questions.


----------



## leeperry

ask for a refund and get three burson's?


----------



## Ardent

I'm sorry?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi folks, I need some advice.

 I mostly come from a speaker not headphone background, but I've been thinking of picking up a STX.

 Headphone-wise, my current setup is a Auzentech Prelude PCI, mated to AKG 701 and Denon AH-D7000. 

 The op-amp on the prelude is a pair of twin OPA637SM (the mil-spec TO99 metal version) with adaptor, bought from Auzentech direct for an extra $250 as a special present for myself here






 I absolutely adore the detail and clarity of the 637SM, and am very fond of it. However, I'm building a new computer, and because of a lack of PCI slots, I need a new PCI-E card. Hence I'm looking at a STX, since I don't want to wait around for the Auzentech Bravura. I have a few questions:

 1) I would probably like to use the OPA637SMs again. Because the ASUS op-amp replacement instructions ask for a 2 op-amp on 8 pin package, and 637SMs are 1 op-amp per chip, I will need a second pair of 637SMs + adaptor, correct?

 2) Photos of the STX suggest that it has a large metal cover over it. WIll there be any clearance issues with the cover or any other component if I use the adaptor?

 3) Has anyone run 637SMs on the card before, and if so, how did it come out?

 4) If I'm not going to be using the RCA outputs (just the headphone and the digital SPDIF), is there any point in my changing the buffer op-amp? [If there is a point in changing the buffer, then what would people recommend to best match the 637SMs? Also if so, please could you recommend a site either US or UK where it could be purchased cheaply and hassle free?]

 Many, many thanks if you can help me with my questions. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

1) You can use your OPA637SMs (shown in the image you posted) in the buffer slot so you don't need 2 of them necessarily.

 2) Actually, I have a pair of opamps soldered on the single-to-dual adapters like your OPA637SMs are mounted on and there IS a clearance issue with the cover. However, good news is that using the card without the cover makes absolutely no difference in SQ, and also improves the cooling.

 3) There were some who used them and posted their thoughts in the huge STX sneak peak thread. I've used those opamps but not in the STX, so I can't say how they would mate.

 4) I'll let ROBSCIX handle this one.


----------



## Ardent

Hi Shahrose,

 I don't entirely understand your comment for 1) - as per the ASUS instruction document, I thought for the headphone output I would have to swap the A&B dual opamps at least.

 Re #2:

 A major concern of mine is the width of the adaptor, if this image is correct:






 I measured my existing one: it is 1.2cm long x 3.2cm wide. That doesn't give me too much confidence in the ability to put 2 such adaptors side by side. Could someone please measure theirs to check? 

 If this is a problem, just how tall are those capacitors around it? Is there a way to raise the adaptor module off the board so 1 can overlap on top of the other? My current idea would be to just stick in a set of these to artifically raise the height, but under all circumstances I need this to stay within the total width of 1 card slot.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can use the OPA637SM on the front slot only. 
 You could use them in the back closet but you would need a different design.


 I just tested it and it fits perfectly on the front opamps slot which is the buffer.
 If you are using heapdheons you cannot use this for the buffer as it will not be used in the circuit. They will not fit for recplaing the two back opamps 
 The height is not so much of a issue, the trouble is the opamps sockets are too close together.


----------



## Ardent

ROBSCIX-

 Well, what I was thinking of was raising one adaptor using those sockets above the level of the capacitors, and the other adaptor even further still above the level of the other adaptor.

 However, it's hard to judge if there's sufficient clearance, because I can't tell if the edge of the adaptor if placed on one will actually cover over the base of the other or not. Would you be kind enough to measure the separation of the two "back" op-amp sockets, and the height of the capacitor south of the lower socket?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well, I can check that for you right now as I have the card in my drawer and quite a few dual To-99 opamps including the 637SM. Hold on a minute and I will see if it fits.

 You realize that you will need two of these modules for I/V on this card which would be $500 for opamps. -If you biuyt them from Auzentech.
 Not to mention, This opamps is very touchy in circuits and you need high gains for it to be stable.


----------



## ROBSCIX

No. Just tested with a ST and a dual TO-99 module. Which is the same size as the one your considering using.

 There is not enough clearance on the one closest to the cards edge. If you put the dual TO-99 module in there, it blocks the other socket.

 Your taking to the right guy though as a few of us have been working on this issue for a couple months.
 There are a few ways around it.
 You can build adapters to move the outside opamps further away and go with a similar suggestion as you said.
 You could use an extension cable similar to what people use when they are working with larger burson opamps or audio GD's etc.


----------



## Ardent

Yeah, like I said, I already have a module and I don't mind purchasing another since I really do like the sound.

 What adaptor do you have that lets you attach 2 TO99s to 8 pin DIP?

 Edit: ^^ Argh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Could you take the measurements for the seperation and the capacitor height?


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, no. You need one of these modules for EACH dip 8 socket.

 So for the I/V you would use the one you have and buy another.

 You could get aroudn the caps height with another socket added. The trouble is the seperation between the two sockets on the board.

 I also have a strong feeling these would not work for I/V....there is not enough gain in the circuit.

 Also, I am not guessing..I am sitting here trying it out for you.


----------



## Ardent

Heh, I get the point that I need 2 modules, I think I've not been very clear.

 Can I ask though: What are the measurements and what is the adaptor you're using for the ones that you have?

 Re: the gain, I'm aware that the 637 is fairly finnicky. Just how strong is your feeling, because if I have to I'll buy 2 modules of 627s, but I'd prefer not to have to go down that route.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I will go and find a ruler and snap a pic with the ruler in there so you can se for yourself.

 I have never used that particular module for I/V on this card. For others you can use extension wires. They are used all the time with larger opamps modules.

 My feeling is fairly strong and I was speaking with another that tried to use 637BP on a similar circuit and got nothing but distortion as the circuit was osciallating. I have one here and the extension wirse wo I can test it out for you also.


----------



## Ardent

Ace, thanks a lot for your help. You really know your stuff


----------



## ROBSCIX

There is about 7mm between the sockets.

 If you put the 637 module in the outside socket, it just start to block the pins on the second socket near the caps.

 There is no way to do it without some type of added adapter or extension wires.


----------



## Ardent

Yeah, I just took a measure of my adaptor, the wings are 9mm - you are 100% right, even if raised, it won't fly without wires.

 Blast. Well, I'll throw that idea in the bin then.

 In that case, given that your hunch would be far more accurate than mine about the gain being too low for the 637, the wisest idea would be to go for 2 pairs of 627AU, like:
Cimarron or Auzentech, which has the added bonus of being dramatically cheaper.

 Again, thanks a lot for all your help - you are quite the wonderful expert.

 One final question: If only using the headphone & digital outputs, is it worth changing the buffer (if so, what to?).

 Cheers!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, the chip version of the 627/637 are much cheaper then the SM modules.

 If your using headphone and digital, there is no point in changing the buffer opamp as it is never used.

 I will do some tests later and verify if the circuit is not compatible with the 637's...

 Glad I could help.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So after about a month of use and comparing the LME opamps. Here's what I've come up with:

 The HA's aren't the greatest for bass. In fact, for overall sound, I personally think 3xLME49720NA are still the best. For detail and a neutral (but light) bass presentation, the LME49710HA are best. The LME49720HA I don't really like as they sound like brighter, thinner, and compressed versions of the 49720NA.

 I don't want to misguide anyone as previously I had stated in my preliminary listening that the LME49710HA was the best overall opamp in my system. As always, YMMV._

 

Bah, can my 3xLME49720NA's arrive already! >.<


----------



## ROBSCIX

Are you still waiting on those chips Kiwi?


----------



## Ardent

ROBSCIX - 

 Did you find out if the 637 were stable?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you still waiting on those chips Kiwi?_

 

mmm...Should of taken 5-7 days as there weren't any AUS stock thus had to be sourced from the US.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ROBSCIX - 

 Did you find out if the 637 were stable?_

 

No, I got busy doing something else. It is later here now.
 Watch this thread and I will test them and post when I am done.
 Apologize for the wait....


----------



## Ardent

Well, I went off and picked up a STX today for myself - looks pretty good in person, but I can't plug it in to test it since my computer isn't built yet.

 I am probably going to be boring and fit twin pairs of OPA627AU/37AU in the I/V sockets, and LME49720HA in the buffer (because it's cheaper).

 For other people's reference, I can 100% confirm the auzentech module will not fit even if raised the pair.

 Robsicx, when you let me know if the 637s are stable or not, I'll go off and buy them!


----------



## ROBSCIX

I will do it right now

 I have a 627 AU and 637 AU modules. I will put the 627 in the left and the 637 in the right and listen for any issues.

 ...give me a minute.


----------



## ROBSCIX

OK....

 I installed a OPA627AU in the right channel an a 637AU in the left channel on a ST.
 I used a Dual LME49710HA for the buffer.

 I started up the system ran some sound tests and there is a noticable issue in the left channel. There is hiss, distortion...etc. It is just a mess. Based on what I heard the 637AU is NOT stable in this circuit and it is oscillating. It woudl be the same on the STX and the HDAV 1.3 as the use a similar circuit for I/V and buffer.

 The 627 is fine on the right channel.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## Ardent

Aiight, buying now. Again, many thanks for everything!


----------



## ROBSCIX

No problem. Enjoy.

 Post your impressions.


----------



## ROBSCIX

So your going with two OPA627AU's or BP's in the I/V sections and a LME49720HA in the buffer?
 I think that should give you some serious sound quality.

 The buffer opamps will not be used if your going with the onboard headphone amplifier.
 The LME49720HA is a higher end version of the LME4562NA...in the same family but with a bit more audio muscle.


----------



## Ardent

Yeah will do, but it will be another 2 weeks before my computer is set up.

 I can get hold of the LME49720HA soldered onto a DIP8 cheaply locally, so I figure why not stick it in the buffer, in case at some point down the line I decide to start using the line-out. I'm considering picking up a grace m902 at some point, but that's a 50-50 decision. Currently, I do spend a lot of time with my headphones plugged into my denon a1hd set- the circuitry is all round absolutely fantastic, but it's not really a headphone amp.

 I'm dissapointed about the 637s, but c'est la vie. Re the BPs: is there anyone out there which sells presoldered 627BPs to a dual adaptor? When I was young, I used to do a lot of electronics. I designed PCBs and made them by photoengraving, but that was so long ago - I don't have a soldering iron any more and don't fancy trying to begin again now.


----------



## Kuze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ is there anyone out there which sells presoldered 627BPs to a dual adaptor?_

 

As far as i know, No, but i have seen some on eBay with dual adapters un-soldered.
 627SM:link


----------



## Ardent

Uh - I thought we'd established over the last page that 2 TO-99 package SMs + adaptor just won't fit? Both ROBSCIX and I tried out our modules, and neither has sufficient clearance. 

 The BP is DIP though, not SOIC like the AU. The comment over the BPs is one of: Does cimarron / other company's DIP single to DIP dual adaptor fit, and is there anyone out there selling them presoldered?


----------



## Ardent

Actually, I can answer at least part of own question:

 The version of this with 2 DIP sockets is $9 USD each, making $18 for the pair.

 And ebay has OPA627BPs for $24 for 2 here - meaning that 2 full modules could be done without soldering for $66 total, which is only $1 more than what auzentech wanted per module for the AU version. 

 I know that the B spec is considered better than the A spec, but the datasheet doesn't say why. I guess that would lead to 2 further questions:

 1) The magic question: is there clearance?

 2) What's the difference in sound between A&B specs?


----------



## Ardent

Huh, from the Cimarron's measurements "0.800" x 0.450" x 0.048" adapter board"
 and my taking a ruler to my STX, i think it might just fit with a bit of raising of one module over the other. Anyone got one of those adaptors to check?


----------



## Kuze

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Uh - I thought we'd established over the last page that 2 TO-99 package SMs + adaptor just won't fit? Both ROBSCIX and I tried out our modules, and neither has sufficient clearance. 

 The BP is DIP though, not SOIC like the AU. The comment over the BPs is one of: Does cimarron / other company's DIP single to DIP dual adaptor fit, and is there anyone out there selling them presoldered?_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_1) The magic question: is there clearance?_

 

Just trying to help, yes i did read that the EMI/RFI shielding would cause some clearance issues, but i didn't think that would be mayor cause you could always go without, my initial plan was to use longer screws with some extenders to heighten the EMI/RFI shielding, good luck.


----------



## Ardent

Kuze, no - it's not collision with the EMI shielding - that's not the concern. The problem is that the DIP sockets are situated side-by side, and fitting a dual TO-99 adaptor means that the width of the adaptor covers over the other DIP socket - hence there's no way to plug in the second module. From my measurements just now, I think that fitting a dual DIP8 adaptor may mean that both modules overlap, but that can be solved by removing the EMI shielding and raising one module above the other with an extension trivially.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Brown dogs which you would use for the 627AU/BPS shoudl still allow the EMI/RFI sheilding to be used. I will check to verify tommorow as I have a few opamps in brown dogs that you would use for these.

 To clarify, you could use the SM modules but not on their own, you would need some extension cables or special adapters and the sheilding would not be able to be used.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Well, I installed my 3xLME49720NA's today.

 Inital impressions are my my setup (STX --> Rockhopper M3 w/ AD8610 opamp --> DT880/600) when compared to the LT1057 in I/V and default LM4562 in buffer:

 * Wider soundstage
 * Lower bass in quantity, but I would argue better quality bass.
 * More detailed
 * More 'airy' sound

 EDIT: Add in better voice / instrument separation and placement (which well ties into soundstage but meh). 

 I'll listen to them for few days to get some better impressions but those are initial ones.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Well, it defiantely sounds great with female voices I must say but I feel it lacks quantity of bass for my tastes. I might put in a LT1057 in the buffer and see what that does tomorrow


----------



## ROBSCIX

I suggest using a different buffer then what your suign for i/v. If using the same opamps for all three opamps, the negative aspects can compound. If you understand what I mean.
 I try to use a buffer that helps improve the signature provided by the I/V opamps.


----------



## walsh

Is there a general consensus as to which op-amp provides the best quantity of bass? What about best quality?


----------



## chinesekiwi

To sum it up in a few words:

 2 x LME49720NA in I/V, LT1057 in buffer = crap.
 2 x LME49720NA in I/V, 1 x burned in LM4562 in buffer (the default) = good balance of frequencies and detail but too dark of a sound signature while not having the bass quality of 3 x LME49720NA. 
 Whilst 3 x LME49720NA = quite detailed but a low amount of bass in quantity and airy soundstage. LM4562 in buffer, no matter what opamp = perfect positioning of soundstage depth for my liking. tbh, the soundstage depth I think is hugely influenced by the buffer opamp in line-out.

 I CAN'T WIN!!!!! :'(

 I'm highly investigating according to the bottom link, the huge bang-for-buck AD797ANZ.

 Majkel's Audio-GD opamp review aka in my eyes 'the massive and awesome opamp comparison post' 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/

 Anyone here tried it?

 I'm specifically talking about the AD797ANZ, not any other version of the AD797.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_To sum it up in a few words:

 2 x LME49720NA in I/V, LT1057 in buffer = crap.
 2 x LME49720NA in I/V, 1 x burned in LM4562 in buffer (the default) = good balance of frequencies and detail but too dark of a sound signature while not having the bass quality of 3 x LME49720NA. 
 Whilst 3 x LME49720NA = quite detailed but a low amount of bass in quantity and airy soundstage. LM4562 in buffer, no matter what opamp = perfect positioning of soundstage depth for my liking. tbh, the soundstage depth I think is hugely influenced by the buffer opamp in line-out.

 I CAN'T WIN!!!!! :'(

 I'm highly investigating according to the bottom link, the huge bang-for-buck AD797ANZ.

 Majkel's Audio-GD opamp review aka in my eyes 'the massive and awesome opamp comparison post' 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...-v-2-a-397691/

 Anyone here tried it?

 I'm specifically talking about the AD797ANZ, not any other version of the AD797._

 

That's part of the reason why I thought 3xLME49720NA mated so well with the DT990. Their bass-light sound evens out the bloomy mid-bass of the cans. It also works well with the HD650, making them sound quite balanced. The DT880 are already bass-light headphones so I'm not surprised at your findings. Unfortunately, I haven't found any good opamps that increase bass. The bassiest opamp is the stock JRC2114D IME but it has several flaws in other aspects which make it incomparable to the LME49720NA.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there a general consensus as to which op-amp provides the best quantity of bass? What about best quality?_

 

OPA2132P has a fantastic bass response...and great mids, it kills the 49720 by a long shot


----------



## ROBSCIX

LOL! a 2132 over a 49720?

 Not a chance. IMHO.

 To note, your also using a Prodigy HD2 so it may be a good mix with your DAC and cans but I have tried it on the ST(X) -meaning both cards and it is a very bland, boring opamp...

 If you like it great but there are much better opamps out there.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That's part of the reason why I thought 3xLME49720NA mated so well with the DT990. Their bass-light sound evens out the bloomy mid-bass of the cans. It also works well with the HD650, making them sound quite balanced. The DT880 are already bass-light headphones so I'm not surprised at your findings. Unfortunately, I haven't found any good opamps that increase bass. The bassiest opamp is the stock JRC2114D IME but it has several flaws in other aspects which make it incomparable to the LME49720NA._

 

The DT880/600 is the bassiest of all the DT880's and tbh, the best of all the DT880's SQ wise when properly amped.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bey...thread-429371/

 So currently, although I know the 3 x LME49720NA has better sound fidelity, currently using 2 x LME49720NA in I/V, and the default LM4562 in buffer as it fills that bass void while keeping the detail of the LME49720NA's.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The DT880/600 is the bassiest of all the DT880's and tbh, the best of all the DT880's SQ wise when properly amped.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/bey...thread-429371/

 So currently, although I know the 3 x LME49720NA has better sound fidelity, currently using 2 x LME49720NA in I/V, and the default LM4562 in buffer as it fills that bass void while keeping the detail of the LME49720NA's._

 

I never said the DT880/600 is bad. I personally think it's Beyerdynamic's top headphone (after the Tesla). I just think it's presentation errs on the side of neutrality and so it could use a bassy system behind it to sound best.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyway, I'm gonna take the nice and expensive testing plunge and buy 3 x AD797ANZ's and the Musiland 02 US. No point speculating.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyway, I'm gonna take the nice and expensive testing plunge and buy 3 x AD797ANZ's and the Musiland 02 US. No point speculating._

 

I'll be looking forward to your comparisons. I, OTOH, have decided to have a Gamma 2 DAC commissioned for me. I'll probably have that in a couple months time (likely less). I'll be sure to compare it to the STX.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Switched back to 3 x LME49720NA's for now as the LM4562 + 2 x LME49720NA combo started to sound funky in the bass, like a slightly badly ported subwoofer + I'm a detail freak.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shahrose* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll be looking forward to your comparisons. I, OTOH, have *decided to have a Gamma 2 DAC* commissioned for me. I'll probably have that in a couple months time (likely less). I'll be sure to compare it to the STX._

 

Looking forward for the comparison.


----------



## Bmac

I have a Neko D100 coming in a week or two, and a Music Hall DAC 25.2 coming in 6 or 8 weeks. I'll compare both with the STX and let you guys know the STX fares.


----------



## potm

Hi guys,
 Hope you have some time to help a noob out. Tried searching around but couldn't find the answers.
 I have this card and use it with just 2 speakers or headphones.
 I was wondering what settings people usually used for music and games.
 For music I use the Hifi dsp mode and for gaming I use the gaming one.
 That is simple enough but what about the audio channels sample rate and 7.1 virtual speaker shifter.
 I know sample rate should match the same one as your source, I think most music is 44.1 movies are 48 and some things are 96. Right now I've just got it on 96 because its too much trouble changing all the time. I can't notice any difference when I change between them anyway.
 Audio channels I'm not sure on. I have it set to 2 because I only have 2 speakers. I've read that it should be 6 for movies and 8 for games. Would it be okai if I just left it at 8 or would this affect my music.
 I really wished they allowed you to save your own custom profiles or have hotkeys to change quickly or even better change automatically based on the program running.
 Thanks in advanced for any advice provided.


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is basically what suits you. Many aorund here would say to use the HI-FI mode for your music as it gets rid of extar effects etc. that you might not want on your music.

 You cannot notice any difference because the card uses a high quality interpolation filter. Generally the idea is to keep the sample rate set for the music but you cannot do that all the time if you have music with mixed bitrates. So many just do what you do set it to the highest rate and let it upsample. ASUS is said to be working on new drivers for "auto smaple rate adjust".

 For EAX/openAL games use the GX gaming mode. This will give you emulation of the effects. It can be a bit hit or miss depending on the game. Mostgames are 5.1 or 7.1 so you can set the input for that number of channels when gaming and many will use Dolby Heapdhoens for gaming as it give you virtual surround.

 The auto mode adjust has been suggested a few times..but we will have to wait and see how the newer drivers turn out when released.
 All these are just suggestions. Peoples opinions will vary..
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Duperman

Is it a female molex connector or male that goes into the card?

 Because my computer doesn't have any molex plug at all...but it does have an unused 6 pin pci express cable, maybe I can buy an adapter??

 Ex. in picture below is it that left plug that goes into the card?

NCIX.com - Buy Male Molex Power 4PIN to PCI Express 6PIN Female Adapter Cable for ATX Power Supply - PCIe-6F-4M In Canada.


----------



## gurubhai

@potm : I would advise you to keep the channel setting at 6/8 so that the downmixing is done by Xonar drivers & not by windows.
 Also configure your media player to not do any downmixing with multichannel streams.


----------



## potm

Thanks for the replies guys. I would assume that by default, media players wouldn't downmix multi channels. I'm using winamp right now and can't seem to find any option for it.
 Is there one in foobar, I'm considering changing to that since everyone recommends it but will have to be when I have the time to play around with it.

 @Duperman

 It's a male molex connector that you need to go into the female slot of your card.

DealExtreme: $3.72 1-to-4 Molex Power Cable Splitter
 One of those should suit you fine. Molex connectors usually plug into fans which don't take much power so you can piggyback them on. The STX also requires minimum power. Since you have a spare pci connector your PSU will be a pretty decent one. That or you have no GPU 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Usually people are trying to change molex to pci pin, not the other way around so it might be hard to find a female pci to male molex.


----------



## Ardent

I got my card and PC up, and put a LME49720HA in the buffer. Still waiting for the 627s and brown dogs to arrive, though.

 Not tried out the line out, via headphone only - I'm pretty unimpressed with the stock output, especially compared to how good my old prelude with the 637SMs was. Hope the 627Bs comes soon so I can try this out better.


----------



## digitor

Hi Guys

 Just got a brand new system 3 days ago with the following specs: 
 Intel i7 860 
 ASUS P7P55D-LE
 Gigabyte GTS 250 1 GB PCIE
 Windows 7 PRO 32 Bit
 Kingston 4GB DDR 1333
 Logitech Z 2300 2.1 Speakers (carried on from the old system)

 Initially, the sound was through the motherboard which I found not that great (It was good but a bit brassy and dull). On reading extensive reviews, I got impressed by what Essence STX had to offer. Did the purchase and got the soundcard installed by the initial dealers (they forgot to plug in the STX with an internal 4 Pin Molex power supply, which I had to do myself). Downloaded the new drivers through the website and got the software installed. The PROBLEM now is that I cant seem to playback any music. Ive tried several players such as iTunes, Real, Windows etc but music seems to be playing without any sound (nothing happening in the Xonar Essence Sound Centre). Also, I tried doing a Test (for L & R speakers) through the Xonar Essence Sound Centre using my Logitech Z 2300's (which are working fine with my Ipod). In the test, sound is played-back but only through the Left speaker (It says "Left" and "Right" but both times sound comes from only the Left speaker). I connected the 3.5 to RCA cable with my speaker system. Can anyone please help me, I feel like I've just wasted $230 (AU)? Thanks in anticipation.

 (p.s. - ASUS tech support is living upto its reputation)


----------



## chinesekiwi

Haha, you probably haven't changed the setting in Windows.

 Go into your Sounds and Devices and change the default audio device under 'Playback' to the STX.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they set L and R at 76% in the control panel mixer, increasing it to 100% is in good order?_

 

No, if you boost the balance sliders to 100% you will get really badly limited sound. Any full scale transients will cause the built in limiter to activate & squash all other sounds & the limiter is the fast acting slow release kind causing the softer sound to ramp back up slowly enough to be disconcerting. 

 At 100% they boost the audio way beyond what the DACs are capable of reproducing so its a good thing the limiter is there.


----------



## leeperry

hehe, no worries! "76" is the magic number...don't ask no questions, don't hear no lies


----------



## digitor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Haha, you probably haven't changed the setting in Windows.

 Go into your Sounds and Devices and change the default audio device under 'Playback' to the STX._

 

Yo Bro

 I did that but its still not doing anything. Its strange but when Im in Sounds & Devices then the test for "Speaker" goes fine (only the left speaker though) but when Im playingback/ testing it for S/PDIF Pass-through Device then no sound comes through 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Perplexed!!!!!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Did you set your add-in soundcard as the default device?


----------



## digitor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you set your add-in soundcard as the default device?_

 

Yes, in the following way (its a pity I cant copy and paste the screen shot):


 "S/PDIF Pass-through Device
 ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio Device
 Default Device"


----------



## digitor

God love Windows 7 and you Rob, did some autorepair and lo and behold its working. Only one problem now, sound is still coming only from one speaker (of my Logitech Z 2300's). Could it be a compatibility issue? should I try plugging my speakers through the headphone socket? Thanx mate!

 p.s.- sound quality from one speaker is pretty awesome...


----------



## walsh

digitor - Are you using the Logitech speakers? Are they stereo speakers or surround? Do they come with an active subwoofer?


----------



## digitor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_digitor - Are you using the Logitech speakers? Are they stereo speakers or surround? Do they come with an active subwoofer?_

 

hi mate

 They are 2.1 and they come with an active subwoofer, here in a bit more detail:

Logitech > Audio > Speakers > Z-2300 2.1 Speaker System

 Ta


----------



## digitor

^ Problem resolved, wasnt pushing it (jack) in hard enough...would love to know my girlfriends thought on that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks all for your help....


----------



## walsh

Anyone have experience with discrete op-amps like the Bursons or Audio-GDs? I'm considering getting one but am trying to figure out how I will connect them. They recommend soldering it directly to the socket but I don't like the idea of that at all!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digitor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_God love Windows 7 and you Rob, did some autorepair and lo and behold its working. Only one problem now, sound is still coming only from one speaker (of my Logitech Z 2300's). Could it be a compatibility issue? should I try plugging my speakers through the headphone socket? Thanx mate!

 p.s.- sound quality from one speaker is pretty awesome..._

 

No problem, glad you got it figured out. Enjoy your new card.
 Usually speakers issue like that are just connection issues.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have experience with discrete op-amps like the Bursons or Audio-GDs? I'm considering getting one but am trying to figure out how I will connect them. They recommend soldering it directly to the socket but I don't like the idea of that at all!_

 

I have tested the cards with the Audio-GD discrete units...

 What do you need to know?
 I wouldn't solder them in, you may want to change them again down the road.
 Which units are you planning on using and in which position on the card?


----------



## Ardent

Still waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've received the cimmaron brown-dog adaptors, and 2 of the 627BPs, but I have to wait for the other 2 to be sent to me. I can though confirm that the 2 adaptors will not seat side by side - one has to be extended above the other, but the adaptors do not cover the other socket's pins so no funny solutions are required like for the SM variants.


----------



## fzman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *digitor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^ Problem resolved, wasnt pushing it (jack) in hard enough...would love to know my girlfriends thought on that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks all for your help...._

 

probably wouldn't matter much any, seeing that it's a "mini plug"


----------



## Ardent

Still waiting on the final 2 627BPs to come, but to demonstrate that the cimarron brown dogs can be used by raising:


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, this was mentioned awhile back.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Anyone tried the super cheap but interesting OP275 on the STX (any combination)?

 Reason I say this that the Musiland 02 Monitor US, a direct competitor to the STX, uses this opamp and has a higher quality but similar DAC but sounds more natural, has mre timbre than say a STX w/ 3xLME49720's..


----------



## Bmac

Timbre is a synonym of tone or colour. It doesn't really make sense in the context you've used it.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still waiting on the final 2 627BPs to come, but to demonstrate that the cimarron brown dogs can be used by raising:_

 

nice! I'll use 1 or 2 additional DIP8 sockets to do the same in order to fit 2*L1028ACN8 on browndogs on the Claro Halo: http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggIma...271-005-04.jpg

 I'm afraid the damn solid caps would get in the way otherwise.

 and I see you crave for killer SQ, you should really give a go at discretes...I'm quite sure they'd crush these grossly overpriced OPA627


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_and I see you crave for killer SQ, you should really give a go at discretes...I'm quite sure they'd crush these grossly overpriced OPA627 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Without actually hearing the 627 you really have no idea how they sound.


----------



## walsh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have tested the cards with the Audio-GD discrete units...

 What do you need to know?
 I wouldn't solder them in, you may want to change them again down the road.
 Which units are you planning on using and in which position on the card?_

 

I think i'll give the Burson 101 a go, probably in the buffer. This guide isn't so helpful because it says to solder it directly: Burson Opamp 101
 Did you use an adapter with your Audio-GD unit?


----------



## ROBSCIX

I used the extension wires as that is the only way to use such big units with these soundcards. They would fit for the buffer but might fall out depending on the fit.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone tried the super cheap but interesting OP275 on the STX (any combination)?
_

 

I think it's worh a try 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I haxe an stx for a month only and have tried only two combinations sofar.

 1.:
1x lm4562na (stock) and 2x opa2134pa 
 I've listened to this for about two weeks.
 This is a nice improvement from the stock setup. The midrange is a lot more detailed , the are more and clearer highes (although I was missing a little bit) and the bass is tighter. The soundstage have improved too.

 2.:
1x lm4562na (stock) and 2x op275gp 
 I have this only for two days.
 Compared to the previous (1.) setup, there is an overall improvement. There are just a bit more detailed and clearer highes. The mids are more detailed too, but don't feel much difference. The bass is not so tight and feels a bit softer/warmer (if i can use this term 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). The soundstage is wider and the music sounds more natural.

 To me the 2nd is the best sofar.

 I listen mainly electronic music (mostly goa).
 Gear:
 Acoustic Energy AE1 two way speakers
 JBL power20 power amp
 Foobar2000


 Hope this helps


----------



## chinesekiwi

Hey guys, as Asus suck with the STX driver support, I'm currently running the hacked version of the HDAV 1.3 Slim drivers (the latest Asus sound card driver update) on my STX atm and it works perfectly fine on XP 32 Bit.

 the ASIO works way better with these hacked drivers tbh.
 The hack is just basically some .ini file edits to make it work with the STX (or any other Asus soundcard tbh).

 The download: http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=293049


----------



## bogdan03ady

Hi audiophiles!
 I want to buy this soundcard, the Xonar Essence STX, and use it on my 5.1 Logitech X540 surround speakers, but I see no way to connect my 3 cables from the Logitech system to the Asus card. How can I connect these 2? Thanks in advance!


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can't. The STX is only a 2.0 output card for analog. Did your speakers come with an adapter? Small black box that allows you to connect both the sub and fronts to a 2.0 system? -If you got that with these speakers, then you need a set of RCA patch cables. Connect up the adapter to the fronts and the sub and connect the adapter usign the RC patch to the card.

 If not then you should have gotten a adapter with the card. Dual RCA to 3.5mm mini jack. Connect that to the RCA's and connect the green jack to that adapter.


----------



## bogdan03ady

No, no optional cable came with my speakers. I know that the STX only has front left and front right outputs, but I thought that I would be able to connect ALL of my 3 cables from Logitech to the STX using the last output on the soundcard as is described here : "The last connector is a combination RCA/phono (coaxial) and optical digital output. This lets you have multi-channel (e.g. 5.1 surround) audio via a digital interconnect cable. Again, you can use the included optical adapter if required."


----------



## ROBSCIX

No you need digital gear to use that output.

 It is not really a cable but a small black box about the size of a match box. This allows you to connect up both the subwoofer and fronts to a stereo output. If you connect up just the front channels to the STX your going to have very tinny sound as you will have no bass.
 Do you have headphoens to use for now?

 If you want surround sound, there are other cards that would have been a better choice for you.


----------



## bogdan03ady

I have gaming headphones, so they are useless in this situation. Plus, I can't spend a lot of money on audiophile headphones because like to listen from speakers.
 So, recommend a 5.1 surround system that can play music from the STX, just like I play mine now with my Logitech X540 from Audigy SE using the upmix feature of CMSS Surround Sound. 
 If there is no system like that, recommend another soundcard with the same great sound as STX( so I heard
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bogdan03ady* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi audiophiles!
 I want to buy this soundcard, the Xonar Essence STX, and use it on my 5.1 Logitech X540 surround speakers, but I see no way to connect my 3 cables from the Logitech system to the Asus card. How can I connect these 2? Thanks in advance!_

 

In order to use the Stx on a surround system you have to get hold of an add-on card called H6. 
 The H6 is quite difficult to buy separately, but you can get it here for example: Asus Xonar HDAV H6, 120dB SNR 7.1 Channel Extension Card with with swappable Opamp sockets
 This will allow you to connect your speakers to the Stx. Alternately you may purchase the Xonar Hdav Deluxe card which comes bundled with the H6.


----------



## sw98

I absolutely <3 this card, best $180 I've ever spent!


----------



## bogdan03ady

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isleofgeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_In order to use the Stx on a surround system you have to get hold of an add-on card called H6. 
 The H6 is quite difficult to buy separately, but you can get it here for example: Asus Xonar HDAV H6, 120dB SNR 7.1 Channel Extension Card with with swappable Opamp sockets
 This will allow you to connect your speakers to the Stx. Alternately you may purchase the Xonar Hdav Deluxe card which comes bundled with the H6._

 

Oh, thanks for the info! 
 1.Is there any loss in quality if using the H6 to connect the surround system? 2.Will I be able to make the music recorded in stereo( in fact, 100% of the music I own is stereo) be played on all 6 channels? You know, like the CMSS 3D from Creative software.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isleofgeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alternately you may purchase the Xonar Hdav Deluxe card which comes bundled with the H6._

 

considering Cyberlink USA(Tom) just announced that PDVD9 will be updated later this month by a patch that gives bitstream support for the ATI 5xxx-cards, the resale value of the HDAV will be VERY low...

 it's kinda strange they don't even bother releasing the daughter board, plus they boast about Nichicon caps on the STX/ST...but the H6 runs solid caps.

 if you guys wanna ask the Xonar Product Manager, you can drop me a PM and I'll give you his email...if anyone can give you a release date, that'll be him


----------



## isleofgeorge

I guess originally the H6 was made for the HDAV and that's why the metal caps.
 Maybe they will release one with nichicon caps


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bogdan03ady* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, thanks for the info! 
 1.Is there any loss in quality if using the H6 to connect the surround system?_

 

I don't think there would be any, but even if you wouldn't notice it on your system.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bogdan03ady* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, thanks for the info! 
 2.Will I be able to make the music recorded in stereo( in fact, 100% of the music I own is stereo) be played on all 6 channels? You know, like the CMSS 3D from Creative software._

 

Asus has a similar feature in it's own control panel, named virtual speaker.

 I recommend you to read this review about the STX.


----------



## bogdan03ady

^Done
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 What I understood: It's the best card for music within its price range and I really don't know which other could be better for music listening( not producing). I think I'll buy the HDAV too, so I have both plus the H6 extension card.


----------



## isleofgeorge

I think it is a good idea if you are looking for surround sound, but if you are really into some serious listening to music (whatever genre it is) I suggest you to consider just pure stereo sound. It is the best way to enjoy music, since that is how they were made originally (for your plesure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and we have two ears only 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Get rid of the artificial effects like surround and others. Once you give some time to your ears to heal from the digital enhancment (crap), you will really enjoy music - as the artist wanted you to hear it. I think the best way is to go for the essence stx and buy a set of decent (preferably high-end) stereo speakers and a power amp. That is the kind of the setup I have now, and I am VERY happy to listen to music though my PC as it was when there were cd players only. It is just so f@kin cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You will not beleive the detail music has, till you don't hear it.
 I know it will cost you some $$$, but if you are really into music, you will not regret.


----------



## bogdan03ady

Hell yeah STX shall be + at least 150$ headphones ( will read more before). Maybe some HD 595?


----------



## isleofgeorge

Sounds good but I don't know much about headphones (maybe I should), so I cannot say anything. Regarding the soundcard, I think you've made the right choice


----------



## bogdan03ady

Whoa, whoa, wait a little. The Essence *STX* can't be connected with a H6 card, I need the PCI version of the Essence, the *ST* without the X from Pci-Express.
 ^That's what I understood by reading the thread about the Essence ST here on the forum and in the link you gave me with the H6 expansion card it is mentioned there: "Compatible With

 Upgrade Xonar Essence ST / Xonar HDAV1.3 to 7.1 channel output"

 So, no mention about the STX.
 Am I missing something, I really want that feature.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 P.S.: on the left is the *STX *and on the right is the *ST*. I think I just answered my question


----------



## isleofgeorge

Oops, you are right. I've read it on the asus forums that it will work, but it could have been about the st. Sorry for that. I don't know how coud I not notice that the pin header for the h6 is not present on the stx .
 BTW, if you have any futher doubts you should contact asus support.


----------



## bogdan03ady

I was confused too, from one of your posts I misunderstood that you own the STX and that you can connect it to the H6. However, there's no problem, don't worry. Happily the sound with the ST is even better or at least that's what I heard.
 Sadly, the card isn't available in stock in my country, I have to wait at least 21 days until one of my local sellers will import it directly from Asus for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. So bad these days when everyone is soooo satisfied with those Realteks HD on-board cards(crappy thingies)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 no store has it because of the low-demand...


----------



## Ardent

Folks, it's test day!

 Photos:
















 The setup is 4x OPA627BPs as I-V, LME49720HA as buffer, via cimmaron brown-dog adaptors & 3 sockets used to raise. The buffer isn't in use right now, with headphones connected directly to output.

 A note on the background: I am English, and mainly a speaker guy, with about usd $50k into a a very nice home cinema setup. Unfortunately, for various long-winded reasons, everything has to sit inside boxes in storage crates for 2 years, and so I'm branching out into headphones.

 Current headphones are AKG 701, Denon AH-D7000, tested against stock, and an Auzentech Prelude w/ OPA637SM. The circumstances is that there's a new computer, and I have no choice but to use a PCI-E card, hence the Auzentech needs to be left behind.

 My impressions: I didn't like the STX stock much at all. I felt it really lacking in pretty much every department, and missed the Prelude a lot. 

 With the 627BPs however, the STX is a completely different animal and comes a darn sight more alive. The clarity and soundstage is much, much improved. The card has quite a bit of power behind it, but I've noticed a tiny bit of random? clipping here and there, as well as at higher volume it does lose an amount of its detail somewhat. Still, decent though.

 Better than the Prelude? I'm afraid I have to say no. The best analogy I have for the 627BPs is that it's like a young duck frantically flapping it's wings over a lake trying to take off, and not quite just being able to. The 637SM's treble just likes to take flight, and the 627BPs for all their trying can't match it. In fairness, (not entirely sure but will go back to test extensively) I think the bass of the 627BPs is marginally tighter and more controlled. To tell the truth, the prelude + either headphone doesn't comes close to my old speakers, but them's the breaks.

 Where to from now? Going for discretes like Bursons is currently a no-no I'm afraid. The computer it's used in is rather special, it's a state-of-the-art dual processor server with 17 hard drives and 57 ram sticks in it. The wiring inside looks like spaghetti just exploded, and it has to be moved around regularly. I can't have op-amps trailing loose inside, because they will end up hitting a fan or shorting something out.

 I have a Sennheiser HD800 on order as well (england is slow to get things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), and my thinking is probs to go with a dedicated headphone amp to power it. 

 I'm currently thinking of either the Benchmark DAC 1 Pre (£1250 - $2100) or the Grace Design m902 (£1500 - $2500, v. difficult to get hold of in the UK now), either connected via line-out or via digital spdif to use the DAC. I want to stay solid state not tubes, and from all I can read, those would appear to be the market leaders at that sort of price-point which I can get hold of over here. Given that the Benchmark is like 4 years newer and it's DAC section at least has better specs than the m902, as well as availability and price, my inclination would be the DAC 1 Pre. Whether to use the DAC part of the unit or not is up for consideration though, if I should bypass the OPA62BPs and LME49720HA is the question. If not, should I just buy a straight headphone amp, and if so what would people recommend?

 Advice would be exceptionally highly appreciated on 

 a) DAC on the STX or not?
 b i) If not DAC on the STX, then DAC 1 Pre? m902? Other?
 b ii) If DAC on the STX, then what? DAC1 Pre anyway?

 Again, thanks very much for all of your help earlier.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Opamps are a very opinionated subject. Some work great with some circuits and not so good with others. You may be happier with another set of opamps or you may be happier with another card or DAC..etc. Your choice.
 You might alo get better results using the buffer....


----------



## leeperry

lol, that's a heck load of risers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 SQ is still fine?!

 if you want top notch automatically bit-matched(no SRC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) S/PDIF, this is your best option I think: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/us...hiface-446375/


----------



## Ardent

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_lol, that's a heck load of risers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 SQ is still fine?!

 if you want top notch automatically bit-matched(no SRC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) S/PDIF, this is your best option I think: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/us...hiface-446375/_

 

The third riser is because while 2 risers clears just about, I wasn't comfortable with so little clearance. It's effectively just ridgid unshielded wire, which isn't a wonderful proposition but there's no real alternative short of fabricating something on a PCB, which I no longer have access to UV equipment/haven't done for yonks.

 Any further opinions regarding a DAC/amp or amp would be appreciated!


----------



## leeperry

well, extensions like in my signature?

 I wanna use two 2*single DIP8>dual DIP8 browdog's(on the DAC output) just like you did, but building an Eiffer tower w/ sockets doesn't sound too appealing to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll cross my fingers and go for extensions I think, but I'd prolly need to add decoupling caps or sumthing...in order to minimize oscillation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here are the usual suspects btw:


----------



## Shahrose

Interesting impressions Ardent.
 I used to own the Prelude and currently own the STX and I found the STX to be well beyond any other soundcard in SQ, even with stock opamps, and both with speakers and multiple headphones/amps.


----------



## Bmac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The third riser is because while 2 risers clears just about, I wasn't comfortable with so little clearance. It's effectively just ridgid unshielded wire, which isn't a wonderful proposition but there's no real alternative short of fabricating something on a PCB, which I no longer have access to UV equipment/haven't done for yonks.

 Any further opinions regarding a DAC/amp or amp would be appreciated!_

 

It's difficult to recommend something based on someone else's taste. It seems based on your impressions you aren't a big fan of the STX, at least in the incarnations you've tried it (stock and with the leaning tower of op-amps). So if budget is not a concern then by all means move up to something higher end; certainly the STX is not likely to do the HD800's justice.

 Asking for recommendations in this thread though about what to do next may not yield the advice you're looking for. Most people using the STX don't own HD800's, and most also don't have higher end unit's like the Benchmark or Grace.

 If I were you I would not be basing future system decisions on how to utilize the STX, I would be basing it on how to utilize your HD800's. I think there is a thread in the high-end forum dedicated to which amps work best with them. If you like simplicity or don't have a lot of space then a one-box solution like the Benchmark or possibly the Lavry DA11 may be for you, but many of the more experienced members will recommend a separate DAC and amp. In the end it comes down to your preferences. The HD800 is very popular so searching the forums should turn up lots of useful information.

 Maybe you should try one of those units first and if you aren't satisfied you can upgrade your amplification down the road. The DAC sections of both those units are certainly very respected.


----------



## leeperry

ok, I guess I got lucky...my browndogs do fit, no eiffel tower made of matches this time


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

I have a question, if I replace the stock op amps with say 2 LME49720's, would that more or less eliminate the need for an external dedicated amp? I plan on buying either beyerdynamic dt 770's 80 or 250 ohm versions, or maybe denon d2000's. Will the LME49720's be able to drive 250 ohms or will they only be effective with the 80 ohms?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fakeyfakerson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have a question, if I replace the stock op amps with say 2 LME49720's, would that more or less eliminate the need for an external dedicated amp? I plan on buying either beyerdynamic dt 770's 80 or 250 ohm versions, or maybe denon d2000's. Will the LME49720's be able to drive 250 ohms or will they only be effective with the 80 ohms?_

 

I think your informaiton is a bit mixed up, lets se if I can answer your questions:

 Replacing the stock opamps with different units will modify the sound but they will not prevent the need for an external amplifer as your suggesting.

 This card has a built in headphone amplifer that you can use if you need the extra amplification for your headphones.


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think your informaiton is a bit mixed up, lets se if I can answer your questions:

 Replacing the stock opamps with different units will modify the sound but they will not prevent the need for an external amplifer as your suggesting.

 This card has a built in headphone amplifer that you can use if you need the extra amplification for your headphones._

 

Oh, I thought opamps were basically the same thing. Hmm guess not.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fakeyfakerson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh, I thought opamps were basically the same thing. Hmm guess not._

 

Well, it depends mainly on the design. There are many instances were opamps are used for driving headphones.

 On the ST(X) design, there is a dedicated headphone amplifier chip which takes this duty.

 The opamps on this card are used for I/V conversion and single ended buffer.

 You can use the onbaord amp for your headphones or connect up an external one.


----------



## niCe99

noob question but i am planning on purchasing these oPAMP for my essence stx

NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR|LME49720NA/NOPB|Operational Amplifier (Op-Amp | Newark.com

 question

 1) are they really that cheap ? ($4)
 2) I just need one of these for my essence stx right?
 3) that is the correct one right? in other words is it compatibly for my card?

 thanks


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well, it depends mainly on the design. There are many instances were opamps are used for driving headphones.

 On the ST(X) design, there is a dedicated headphone amplifier chip which takes this duty.

 The opamps on this card are used for I/V conversion and single ended buffer.

 You can use the onbaord amp for your headphones or connect up an external one._

 

So they don't have anything to do with boosting the output like a regular amp, they just change the way the card actually sounds? Hmm.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *niCe99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_noob question but i am planning on purchasing these oPAMP for my essence stx

NATIONAL SEMICONDUCTOR|LME49720NA/NOPB|Operational Amplifier (Op-Amp | Newark.com

 question

 1) are they really that cheap ? ($4)
 2) I just need one of these for my essence stx right?
 3) that is the correct one right? in other words is it compatibly for my card?

 thanks_

 

1) Depends on where you buy them. If your a student or member of the electnrocis trade you can get samples from the company.
 2) Actually, depend on what you want to use them for. If your chainging the I/V section you need two. I really don't advise using this opamps to swap out the LME4562NA as they are the same excat chip.
 So if your interested in these get two and change them with the JRC2114D on the card.
 You will have to order two units DIP8... Or the LME49720NA as you said.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fakeyfakerson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So they don't have anything to do with boosting the output like a regular amp, they just change the way the card actually sounds? Hmm._

 

They can, it depends on how they are used in the circuit.
 On this card you have 3 opamps:

 2 JRC2114D which are used to convert the Current output from the DAC to a voltage.
 1 LME4562NA which is used as a single ended buffer to correct the signal level to line out standards.

 There are amplifier that use opamps in their stages just soundcards don't usually need high siganl outputs.
 In this design, changing them will basically change the way to card sounds. 
 The power for the headphone output comes from the the TI TPA6120A2 amplifier chip.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They can, it depends on how they are used in the circuit.
 On this card you have 3 opamps:

 2 JRC2114D which are used to convert the Current output from the DAC to a voltage.
 1 LME4562NA which is used as a single ended buffer to correct the signal level to line out standards.

 There are amplifier that use opamps in their stages just soundcards don't usually need high siganl outputs.
 In this design, changing them will basically change the way to card sounds. 
 The power for the headphone output comes from the the TI TPA6120A2 amplifier chip.

 Hope that helps._

 

Thanks a bunch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Does anyone replace the amplifier chip on these cards, or is that a much more involved process?


----------



## leeperry

put an OPA-Earth as final buffer and plug your headphones on the line-out..your best option so far! it'll be a night and day from the $2.25 headphones amp IC(that has a sandpaper-sound if you'd allow me ^^)

 and put some nice LT1469 or LT1364 as I/V, these chips are killer on DAC output!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fakeyfakerson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a bunch 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Does anyone replace the amplifier chip on these cards, or is that a much more involved process?_

 

There isn't much reason to. You can just connect up an external unit to the line outs. This chip amp is not like opamps in which you can just drop in replacements.


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There isn't much reason to. You can just connect up an external unit to the line outs. This chip amp is not like opamps in which you can just drop in replacements._

 

Alright thanks for clearing all that up.


----------



## leeperry

look what's been done of my ex-ST, this cannot be tolerated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












 he had to use the long extensions because he's got a weird case and the shorter ones wouldn't fit.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Many people have been using discretes with the ST. 
 Most use the Earths for I/V and the Sun for buffer....common setup.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *taso89* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does anyone with Vista64 experience a loud screech through the line-outs occasionally? 

 It's like super loud scratchy noise that sometimes appears when a sound is played either in windows or foobar. Once the sound stops a high-pitch "eeeeee" remains until I switch the sample rate. I'm pretty sure the problem appears only on the 44.1khz setting in the Control Panel. I don't think I'm the only one having this problem:

ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- High Pitched "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" noise

 I didn't want to post this to scare anyone from getting this card but it's not acceptable when I have a headphone amp connected and it nearly blows my eardrums out. And it doesn't look like I'm the only one with this issue =\_

 

anyone found a solution for this?
 I had this issue couple of times recently.Since, I listen exclusively via headphones, so I am really worried about my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am on windows 7 with latest xonar drivers.


----------



## Bojamijams

Been listening to my A5's with ROBSCIX's LME49710HA in the buffer spot for a few days now... not too much detailed listening as I've been busy but on first impressions, it seems to be a lot more liquidy in its presentation.. the bass also got a bit tighter and crisper while still extending just as low.. I'm digging it quite a bit. Highs are just as high as they were with stock op-amps but the whole treble region just sounds more... well I have to say liquidy again.. I can't pinpoint it, just the presentation seems smoother. 

 In conclusion, I dig.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone found a solution for this?
 I had this issue couple of times recently.Since, I listen exclusively via headphones, so I am really worried about my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am on windows 7 with latest xonar drivers._

 

Yep, that happened with me a few times. If it can be fixed through drivers, I hope Asus can get on it immediately.


----------



## genclaymore

I have used foobar tho I haven't have that eeeee sound at all with my card at 44.1 in the control panel.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone found a solution for this?
 I had this issue couple of times recently.Since, I listen exclusively via headphones, so I am really worried about my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am on windows 7 with latest Xonar drivers._

 

I haven't heard it myself when I was testing the card but I have headr you and a few others guys mention it.
 If this is happening to you I suggest you send a email to ASUS to let them know perhaps it can be fixed with a simple driver update.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been listening to my A5's with ROBSCIX's LME49710HA in the buffer spot for a few days now... not too much detailed listening as I've been busy but on first impressions, it seems to be a lot more liquidy in its presentation.. the bass also got a bit tighter and crisper while still extending just as low.. I'm digging it quite a bit. Highs are just as high as they were with stock op-amps but the whole treble region just sounds more... well I have to say liquidy again.. I can't pinpoint it, just the presentation seems smoother. 

 In conclusion, I dig._

 

Glad you enjoy it, everybody I have built these for gave positive reviews after testing and they have been tested on various cards.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone found a solution for this?
 I had this issue couple of times recently.Since, I listen exclusively via headphones, so I am really worried about my ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I am on windows 7 with latest xonar drivers._

 

I am using vista x64 and had this issue a couple of times. I was using 44.1 khz sample rate and th 8.17.62 driver.

 To me this occured not a lot after i've put two op275gp in the I/V section. I had to restart my pc to stop the weee sound (closing apps and muting the speakers wouldn't stop the noise). 
 I thought there could be some problem with the opamps, so i've swithched them to another type. I haven't experienced the problem after that. Last week I've donloaded the latest driver (8.17.73) from the asus website too and no problems sofar. 
 Dunno if the it was a driver or an opamp issue, i might place back the op275gp's to see if it occures again with the new driver (but frankly i don't wanna risk damaging my card or speakers, because i have no knowledge of this being harful or not to the equipment).


----------



## gurubhai

^^I had the issue when I was playing a 96 khz file in foobar(wasapi) while playing a browser based flash game.
 I suspect that the conflict between two audio streams leads to this sound.
 It stopped after I double clicked on another audio file & like you closing the apps had no effect on the noise.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I can see it being a issue with the streams and the drivers. The opamps really wouldn't have anything to do with such a issue.


----------



## Ardent

I picked up a DAC1 Pre in the end - in comparison, the STX is substantially tinny-ier when driving the same headphones like for like. Thanks to you all for your advice and help throughout.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked up a DAC1 Pre in the end - in comparison, the STX is substantially tinny-ier when driving the same headphones like for like. Thanks to you all for your advice and help throughout._

 

Considering the price of both units, you would want to hope that DAC1 can surpass the STX!
 Enjoy your new Benchmark DAC 1 Pre.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can see it being a issue with the streams and the drivers. The opamps really wouldn't have anything to do with such a issue._

 

Agree, but I was suspecting because it occured with them and not before or after (with the same driver). I didn't like the soft bass of the op275 anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, so I will not bother trying it again.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Try putting the stock opamps back in. I have seen opamps cause noise issue and popping etc..if they are not operating properly but have never heard of something like this.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ardent* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I picked up a DAC1 Pre in the end - in comparison, the STX is substantially tinny-ier when driving the same headphones like for like. Thanks to you all for your advice and help throughout._

 

Tinnier? As in brighter? thinner? colder? hollow? Could you expand on that.


----------



## nivlek

Can someone please tell me how can I hook up an amp with the card? I have no idea where the lineout is


----------



## drewfus420

the 2 rca jacks to the right of the card are the line outs, rca cable from there into your amp and you are in business.


----------



## Asprilla

I'm thinking of getting Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro, either 80 Ohm version or 250 Ohm version. 

 I've read a lot of different opinions about these and STX. But people just don't seem to agree. So I thought I would ask here, where most of you probably have this sound card.

 Should I go for the 80 Ohm or 250 Ohm version?

 Cheers!


----------



## gurubhai

600 ohms


----------



## leeperry

the DT770 Pro is a major waste of money IMHO(V shaped EQ to death)...it's meant to be used in studio cabins, that's it. look at the second FAQ entry: FAQ´s Headphones


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well everybody has different tastes. Many headphones have far from a flat frequency response.


----------



## nivlek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *drewfus420* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the 2 rca jacks to the right of the card are the line outs, rca cable from there into your amp and you are in business._

 

thanks! and is it safe to connect the audioengine A5 speaker to the headphone out?


----------



## Bojamijams

I wouldn't.. the A5 has its own amplifier.. you should connect the line outs to the A5.. it has a line out which you should feed into your amplifier


----------



## 8-bit thief

I have the AD900 and I need suggestions for an opamp combo that will increase the detail without sacrificing bass quality or quantity (a slight boost in bass would be fine too) of the stock opamps, I'm willing to sacrifice a little treble since the AD900 are fairly bright cans.

 Thanks.


----------



## drewfus420

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nivlek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_thanks! and is it safe to connect the audioengine A5 speaker to the headphone out?_

 

Hook your A5's to the line out of your pre/HP amp


----------



## Kuze

Someone be honest with me, I've been seen quite a few STX on bay for sometime now with resale value prices averaging around $130, if the card is so great why are people letting them go, I've heard the driver support is terrible and even see them discontinued from Newegg, so whats going on?


----------



## draven5494

I have a question. I have a stock Essence STX and a pair of stock HFI-780s. Using the Asus Xonar software, I have tried the 780s with the "high gain" setting and I really like the sound these cans make using that setting. It doesn't just increase the volume but really appears to give the 780s more punch. 

 Now, I see the warning about possibly damaging my headphones if run them using a higher gain setting, but how risky is it to run my HFI-780s using the "high gain" setting in the Asus control panel? 

 Is anyone else running their low-impedance cans using a higher gain setting?


----------



## nivlek

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I wouldn't.. the A5 has its own amplifier.. you should connect the line outs to the A5.. it has a line out which you should feed into your amplifier_

 

What if I want to use both the A5 and headphone through a desktop amp (looking for a MKIII or 336se), as they both need to connect to the line out. Will this setup work?

 card line out > amp line in > amp headphone out to hd650 and amp preamp out to A5

 I am not sure if theres a switch to let you choose line out or headphone out on these amps? I don't see any from the pictures.


----------



## drewfus420

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nivlek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What if I want to use both the A5 and headphone through a desktop amp (looking for a MKIII or 336se), as they both need to connect to the line out. Will this setup work?

 card line out > amp line in > amp headphone out to hd650 and amp preamp out to A5

 I am not sure if theres a switch to let you choose line out or headphone out on these amps? I don't see any from the pictures._

 

That is how mine is set up, and it works very nicely.
 There is no switch for HP/line out on the little dot amps, they are both always on. If 'phones are connected you loose a little volume on the pre-outs, so just unplug your cans when you are using the speakers.


----------



## Bojamijams

the A5 has its own amplifier.. so if you but an amp before it, you are double amping it


----------



## nivlek

I thought the preamp out will bypass the desktop amp and let the A5 amp does the job. Is that still double amping?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Kuze* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone be honest with me, I've been seen quite a few STX on bay for sometime now with resale value prices averaging around $130, if the card is so great why are people letting them go, I've heard the driver support is terrible and even see them discontinued from Newegg, *so whats going on?*_

 

it's a trick question, right?


----------



## drewfus420

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nivlek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I thought the preamp out will bypass the desktop amp and let the A5 amp does the job. Is that still double amping?_

 

the little dot is a PRE amp and HP amp, so it is not double amping per se, it is just like any other pre amp one might use


----------



## stoutblock

Looks like commitment...


----------



## Alienns

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





 Looks like commitment..._

 


 Gief a little bigger picture of this mod


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Alienns* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Gief a little bigger picture of this mod 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





_


----------



## ROBSCIX

That is Marko's card. He Modded that quite awhile ago.
 Whats really bad is some idiot trolls have been posting this picture to other forums trying to suggest it is their card!


----------



## Little country rat

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the DT770 Pro is a major waste of money IMHO(V shaped EQ to death)...it's meant to be used in studio cabins, that's it. look at the second FAQ entry: FAQ´s Headphones_

 

Aren't you the one who half-detroyed it by doing bad soldering on it in order to switch from 250 to 600 Ohms ?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Little country rat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Aren't you the one who half-detroyed it by doing bad soldering on it in order to switch from 250 to 600 Ohms ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

you seem very misinformed my dear little rat...time to check your sources again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I did buy some spare 600Ω drivers and Manufaktur black leather headband/ear pads and pimped my regular DT770/250Ω Premium...and then sold the 250Ω drivers(check my feedback thread if you like), I haven't killed anything whatsoever.





 the DT770/600Ω Premium w/ full genuine leather is very nice(very clear trebles and lean bass response), but too monitoring-oriented to my taste, though...PRAT is low and the SS tiny. The DT770/Pro is really not worth it...boomy bass and crappy trebles, great...it's a studio work tool, nothing more.

 and that's a recabled DT770/250Ω Premium:





 and a recabled DT770/250Ω Pro(SQ was bad, the 80Ω is even worse, hah):





 unlike many ppl on headfi, I make judgments after actually hearing the gear I'm talking about


----------



## Little country rat

Reading all what you've said would take a lifetime...


----------



## leeperry

well, talking **** like you do is much faster indeed, kudos for that


----------



## Jmask5

Amazon.com: AC 110v to 12v 4pin molex Power Adapter: Electronics

 Would something like this work well as a separate Power supply for the STX


----------



## leeperry

a quality ATX PSU(Corsair for instance?) will be better than this laptop brick(less 12V ripple and more stable voltages).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jmask5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazon.com: AC 110v to 12v 4pin molex Power Adapter: Electronics

 Would something like this work well as a separate Power supply for the STX_

 

What some were doing is building separate linear supplies for their STX.
 The issue as many say with the PC powers supply is it is a SMPS (*S*witch *M*ode *P*ower *S*upply) They can be quite noisy compared to a linear supply. If your interested in this you could talk to FZman, he built a separate linear supply for his STX and said it improved the output quality. A few of us have been working on a few ideas for cleaning up power for such tasks. If your interested I will keep you posted.


----------



## Jmask5

yeah I am intrested for sure. Although I'd rather just buy something and hook it up as opposed to building it myself.


----------



## ROBSCIX

A few have been working on them behind the scenes.
 A couple guys currently use external supplies for their cards and the ideas was mentioned to have a person design one and produce it for those interested.


----------



## Alienns

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Jmask5* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Amazon.com: AC 110v to 12v 4pin molex Power Adapter: Electronics

 Would something like this work well as a separate Power supply for the STX_

 

That power supply you linked is working on same principle like one you have in your PC. That`s bad.
 DC Power supply like this http://www.luedeke-elektronic.de/ima...ges/2819_0.jpg have superb clear output like power is coming from batteries. There is no any kind of noise at all. That`s why they cost 350 Euro or more 500$.

 One *crazy idea* how to test your power supply quality is to connect your big bass loudspeaker direct on power supply output. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But if your output can give more than 1-2A be sure to use variable potentiometer with few Kohms and 25W or more because you can burn your speaker in few sec 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ha ha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 but if you are testing supply with a 1-2A 5-12V output that should work without any problems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 And if you hear brbrrbrbrbrbrbrb or any noise on your speaker than you know that you have bad power supply. That doesn`t mean it`s bad but doesn`t produce clear output what we need in this case.

 But first try to connect your speaker direct on baterry 1.5V or 9V and see what you get and remember. Don`t connect your speaker to high amperage battery like from your car it WILL BURN your speaker in 0.01 sec... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and maybe your ears too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I prefer 9V battery is best.

 p.s. don`t connect battery too long because that`s like short circuit for her. Only few sec is enough
 GL


----------



## dollarindex

Does anyone know if this card would have a better soundstage than the a40 mixamp. I'm hoping to connect my xbox 360 to it.


----------



## dex85

i've spent some time with 2x LT1057CN8#PBF in I/V to eliminate a 'new toy' effect. i'm using the headphone out. 

 coming from LME49720HA, LT1057 is warmer, less fluid and less transparent. i very much like the bass, it has more volume and impact than 720HA. i though i was listening to other headphones, never heard such bass from K701. soundstage in general is a bit broader, although in some songs i had a feeling it was as wide as 720HA, if not wider. musical involvement is superb, it made me listen more and more, instruments have a nice, pleasing timbre, although the sound of piano was not as present, woody and breathtaking as with 720HA.

 LT1057 is by far the cleanest op-amp i've have heard, also the least fatiguing and harsh. with K701 i have always had issues with harsh trumpets and some other instruments but none when using LT1057. great match for bright cans and people who dislike aggressive signature of headphone output. yet the sound is as forward as with 720HA.

 judge is still out about 720HA vs LT1057, but i think i'll stick with LT for its pleasing and fatigue-free sound. it somewhat remains me a lot improved stock op-amps.
 the only drawbacks i can think of are for my taste too polite piano and the fact that when using line-outs at 100% there was serious oscillation. i'm keeping it at 50%.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I really liked the LT1057's on this card also.


----------



## gurubhai

LT1057 was my preferred opamp too with my low impedance cans(HD595 & Denon D1001).
 With HD580, I prefer the OPA 2137P more.


----------



## stoutblock

Help needed from you guys familiar with the STX card. 

 I've got a set of Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm headphones, plugged into a Decware CSP2 (with various tubes available), which is plugged into the RCA connections on the card. I quite enjoy this combination! 

 I've got LM4562NA, LME49720NA, LME4970HA, LT1057 opmaps available to me. I'm mostly pleased with the stock sound of the card as is, but what do you guys recommend to explore opamp sound options?

 Also, how do you know which pin to use on which hole with the HAs?

 Any insights for all three locations would be appreciated.

 Thanks!


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can try putting the LME49720's in the I/V sockets. -or the LT1057's...
 just try different combinations and listen to them for awhile until you find a combination that you really like. I wouldn't advise using the HA's without adapters. If your going to use them, do it properly.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can try putting the LME49720's in the I/V sockets. -or the LT1057's...
 just try different combinations and listen to them for awhile until you find a combination that you really like. I wouldn't advise using the HA's without adapters. If your going to use them, do it properly._

 

Thanks, I'll start there. Input on the third spot (buffer?)? 

 Yes, I was planning on getting an adapter for the HA, but how do you know which pin is #1? I assume it is the one near the little tabout on the cover?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, I'll start there. Input on the third spot (buffer?)? 

 Yes, I was planning on getting an adapter for the HA, but how do you know which pin is #1? I assume it is the one near the little tab out on the cover?_

 

The little tab is pin 8. All adapters for TO-99 opamps are marked with Pin 8 and some have marks for pin 1 and they are quite eay to use. The first pin counterclockwise from the tab is pin 1.

 On the card, the two that are side to side (JRC 2114D's) are the differential input I/V section.
 The unit forward from this pair (LM4562NA) is the single ended buffer.
 Here is a shot of some units I built, using TO-99 modules:




 The forward three are LME49720HA's and the rear unit is a dual LME49710HA module.


----------



## KingFiercer

I'm choosing between *3*x *LT1364* and *3*x *LME49720NA* for the Xonar STX (headphones Beyerdynamic DT 250).
 Which is better? =) With LT1364 soundstage will be narrower than with LME49720?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Better is subjective. Some will say the 1364 and other will say the 49720. Try both and use your ears to decide. Happy testing.


----------



## manuvajpai

So I had some fun and some scare with my STX today. LT just generously shipped me a package with LT1057/1364/1358/1468 in it. Enthused as I was, I popped out my stx, stripped it bare and put in the cool new 1057s. Time to put the STX back in the slot and check out the goodness... Whoa! 

 Now you guys might be thinking - told you so! Nahaan! All I got was silence. Checked if my alsa was configured properly (linux plays well with STX) and it was. My other soundcard was working fine too. Time to take out the card and recheck the fit of the op-amps. It was all fine. 

 What I had noticed before was the only op-amps not labelled in the whole set were the 1057s. So I was thinking about what I had written in my request details and thought if LT had played me a card for being diplomatic (I said I wanted it for research on high-end acoustics on a budget, and they don't know that the test subject is me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). Time to put in the JRCs back in and take steps for damage control. 

 This time instead of popping in the old op-amps I also changed the slot of my card. Time to pump up the volume on the mixer... Oh well! There is sound. I guess the slot died on me. Wait! Ermm, why is the sound only coming from the left channel? Ok now it is fixing itself. Slowly the other channel is coming up. Its almost back, I must have left the op-amp a bit loose. So all is well, except for the smell of warm solder and burning circuits that I love so much. Oh yeah! I was burning something and it didn't smell nice at all. Employing all my military training (read:none) to gather my reflexes, I turned off the comp (carelessly soft-rebooting).

 So I guess I burnt the crappy default op-amps. Or so do I hope. Time to put back the 1057s. Maybe this time they'll work on the new slot, that is if I haven't destroyed my card. And viola! They work. As for the sound, well they take away all the harshness of the STX HP out and also the impact along with it. Good for soft music but not so great otherwise. Details, though are above par when compared with stock.

 Time to swap some more! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: *2*LT1057* : On further listen it is clear that 1057s have a tubey sound and while they haven't got the impact of stock, they are wonderful for longer sessions. They will work great with dry HPs. They do make the mids of AD700 a bit congested though. This is particularly evident in classical music where the piano notes gets too softened and therefore appear to be glued together. These will work well with sibilant cans, stuff like DT990. They also sound less airy than stock and have a more intimate presentation. As for a comparison between stock and these, let's just say I am glad they died a valiant death.

 Edit 2: *2*LT1358* : I moved on to these after a long session with 1057s. In simple terms they lie smack in the middle of stock and 1057s, while eliminating both their downsides. Soundstage is wider then 1057s and highs are less softened. Of particular note is how amazing piano sounds with these. Resonance is clearer on every instance hammer meets the string and there is no bloat disturbing the smoothness and fluidity. The presentation is very integrated and musical, especially when compared with stock. Great all-rounders overall with AD700s, although could do with more bass extension and quantity. The bass is the only weak side because it sounds laid-back and casual when compared with others. In general when compared to these the stock JRCs appear to have a smile eq on, and 1057s look sad, pun intended. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit 3: *2*LT1364* : So far they seem like LT1358 with more sparkle and an emphasis on higher frequencies, including upper mids. For instance, the saxophones in "Take Five" sound a bit sharp and nasal. Impact has also improved when compared with LT1358. Overall they feel like a refined version of stock JRCs. Seem pretty good for rock and electronic music. I'll keep the 1358s for acoustic music and jazz though. They will work well with warm/veiled cans. Can reveal the harshness of the STX amp and therefore sound harsh in the highs.

 Edit 4: *2*LT1358 again* - So I popped them in again and surprise! They present more details than any other here. The hot trebles of LT1364 were giving the impression that they are more detailed. The sound appears more open and instrument placement in the soundstage is great. Best of the bunch, in short.

*Overall winners*

 Bass Impact - *JRCs*
 Lushness - *LT1057*
 Musicality - *LT1358*
 Details - *LT1358*. LT1364, LT1057 tied behind them by a rhinoceros horn (read not a whisker).
 Timbre - *LT1358*
 Treble extension-* LT1364*
 Treble quality - *LT1358*
 Soundstage expanse -*LT1358*. LT1364, JRC tied behind them.
 Soundstage placement - *LT1358*: very natural and organic presentation
 Intimacy - *LT1057*
 Dynamics - *LT1358*, except in bass. Not that my current cans can help me much here, though.

*Choice of music with each*

 JRCs - Good for metal and rock but can be fatiguing.
 LT1057 - Good for acoustic music and others where lushness and warmth is appreciated
 LT1358 - Good allrounders but fail for bassheads and bassy music in general
 LT1364 - Same as stock

 PS - Yet to test LT1468. I only spent 30-60 mins with each, except stock (several months). I am impartial about burn-in and am willing to wait (except for JRCs which are literally burnt-in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ). So I will add on to these impressions later. *All op-amps tested only in I/V stage with HP-out and with LM4562 in buffer (insignificant).*


----------



## leeperry

LT1468 is not dual, hope it's a typo ^^

 yes, that famous british guy who messes w/ op-amps said that LT1357 was TEH best.


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LT1468 is not dual, hope it's a typo ^^

 yes, that famous british guy who messes w/ op-amps said that LT1357 was TEH best._

 

Woot! I had a feeling something is wrong so didn't put it in. I am brimming with luck today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Yeah 1358 is so beautifully smooth and textured at the same time. Music sounds yummy with this combination.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Woot! I had a feeling something is wrong so didn't put it in. I am brimming with luck today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Yeah 1358 is so beautifully smooth and textured at the same time. Music sounds yummy with this combination._

 

Better to double check.


----------



## manuvajpai

Double checked. It is smoother and more textured. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All jokes apart, LT1468 IS single. Thanks guys for mentioning it before I started more fireworks. Wasn't gonna put it in anyway, very satisfied with LT1358. Stock seems flat and boring in comparison. This is the difference I was looking for, over the onboard ALC888 I have. Both the onboard sound and the stock op-amps feel like junk now.

 PS - This is gonna break the record of the longest argument on head-fi, you two.


----------



## ROBSCIX

LOL, no I mean doublecheck the ensure the parts you ordered are compatible.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_This is gonna break the record of the longest argument on head-fi, you two._

 

not quite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


 "Negativity of any kind is best ignored. Even asking that question encourages this kind of negative speculation." -Jimmy Page 
 

this said, 1357 on browndog is on my list...I hate dual op-amps...and 1357 seems promising, maybe it'll top 1363 as final buffer


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Double checked. It is smoother and more textured. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 All jokes apart, LT1468 IS single. Thanks guys for mentioning it before I started more fireworks. Wasn't gonna put it in anyway, very satisfied with LT1358. Stock seems flat and boring in comparison. This is the difference I was looking for, over the onboard ALC888 I have. Both the onboard sound and the stock op-amps feel like junk now.

 PS - This is gonna break the record of the longest argument on head-fi, you two._

 

You might get better responses in the opamp thread. Atleast this is a place you can ask peopel their opinion on various units. URL="http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/opamp-thread-432749/index129.html"]LINK[/URL]
 There are quite a few members around there that have years of experience with opamps. There are also some others with little to no expereince that change their mind daily on the same units! -I will leave it to you to figure out who is who.


----------



## manuvajpai

Well, I thought about starting a new thread but it appeared to be such a waste. Just wanted to share my experience at a place where it was easily accessible to others. 

 Oh and this reminds me - People keep bashing STX's built-in amp. I am not using really good phones but I noticed that when I was using JRCs and LT1364 it sounded really harsh at the top-end. With LT1358 it was smooth as butter. So it's not so bad after all, just a question of synergy. And well you cannot expect the universe for 200$. It is already a good deal. Want to see a bad one? Check this out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Brilliant Pebbles crystals audio resonance room tuning vibration


----------



## leeperry

haha, that link is great...but how are you supposed to recognize "low level electrons" exactly? sounds like a job for Patrick82 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well, don't forget that you're on Linux...you don't have to suffer all the resampling crapola from the windows drivers...can you even set the HP output gain? there's 3 settings in the official windows drivers.


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_can you even set the HP output gain?_

 

It defaults to high gain on linux.

 While rolling these Op-amps I noticed something interesting. When I put in LT1057 and LT1364 the card temperature shot up. LT1057 in particular was a posing a big problem. The source of heat appeared to be the capacitors around the I/V op-amps and the DAC. I am using AD700 which are low impedance phones at high gain. Could it be that I am exceeding the current that these capacitors can live happily with?

 Anyone experienced this before? No problems with the current 1358, on the other hand. It's weird to find such a variance with changes in op-amps, though.


----------



## leeperry

high gain is the middle setting on windows IIRC...tried the line-out w/ the supplied adapter? don't like it?

 the metal shield is said to be only good for one thing on xbitlabs.com: cook the components...as it's the 4 layers PCB that's shielded to death.


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_high gain is the middle setting on windows IIRC...tried the line-out w/ the supplied adapter? don't like it?_

 

I tried it with the stock op-amps and it was not a huge change, which is expected from those op-amps I guess. Currently am too busy enjoying the music to try something else. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the metal shield is said to be only good for one thing on xbitlabs.com: cook the components...as it's the PCB that's shielded to death._

 

I do have the metal shield on all the time. Checked for loose connections and everything back then. Interestingly, if you treat LT1358 or stock as control then the metal shield should be the variable parameter (I am a biology student 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and not the op-amps, if it is indeed the culprit. Those two seem to be unrelated, unless changes in these op-amps generate massive changes in the card's thermal behaviour which is taking the shield to it's limits.


----------



## manuvajpai

So I tried the line-out with the new op-amps as some people had suggested. Here are my observations in brief.

*LM4562 buffer, 2*LT1358 I/V* 
 Airier and smoother than the headphone out but the difference is not huge. What is huge is the sheer lack of bass from this setup. Some may say it is because of the high impedance of the line-out which is having trouble driving my low-impedance phones. Wait till your read the next part.

*LT1364 buffer, 2*LT1358 I/V*
 I chose LT1364 because it was brighter than the other op-amps I have (besides LM4562). I found LM4562 to be aptly extended in the highs but lacking in bass and it's impact, so this was a natural choice. And what an effect this change had! Beautifully airy sound while keeping all the positive aspects of LT1358 which I have come to appreciate. Bass is back and is well controlled and ample in quantity, even from AD700s. 
 The best thing is how wind instruments and vocals sound from this setup - just breathtaking. The subtle changes in the wind columns and resonances are just astonishingly clear. This is very evident on A/Bing with the HP-out. I think this settles the dispute on whether HP-out is better or line-out, for me. 

 One more thing about the HP-out which I have observed for a long time but it never bothered me enough until I moved to this setup - it electrifies the notes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. It feels like it has just artificially brightened up the ends of notes being played, giving them extra sizzle. Besides this, it also smears some notes in the mid-range making them sound rougher, which can sound organic if not for the extra sizzle on brighter notes accompanying it. I hope I am making sense.

 However, the HP-out still has some use for me. The reason is the difference in sound signature that it presents. I thoroughly enjoy acoustic and mid-centric music with the HP-out because of it's warm nature, compared to the current line-out setup. The line-out has slightly recessed mids in comparison and works well for classical and rock.

 Will post more impressions later, if you guys are willing to be bored a bit more.


----------



## leeperry

some people agree, the HP out sounds agressive...this card is a hardcore techno/punk rock dream on HP...I guess


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I tried the line-out with the new op-amps as some people had suggested. Here are my observations in brief.

*LM4562 buffer, 2*LT1358 I/V* 
 Airier and smoother than the headphone out but the difference is not huge. What is huge is the sheer lack of bass from this setup. Some may say it is because of the high impedance of the line-out which is having trouble driving my low-impedance phones. Wait till your read the next part.

*LT1364 buffer, 2*LT1358 I/V*
 I chose LT1364 because it was brighter than the other op-amps I have (besides LM4562). I found LM4562 to be aptly extended in the highs but lacking in bass and it's impact, so this was a natural choice. And what an effect this change had! Beautifully airy sound while keeping all the positive aspects of LT1358 which I have come to appreciate. Bass is back and is well controlled and ample in quantity, even from AD700s. 
 The best thing is how wind instruments and vocals sound from this setup - just breathtaking. The subtle changes in the wind columns and resonances are just astonishingly clear. This is very evident on A/Bing with the HP-out. I think this settles the dispute on whether HP-out is better or line-out, for me. 

 One more thing about the HP-out which I have observed for a long time but it never bothered me enough until I moved to this setup - it electrifies the notes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It feels like it has just artificially brightened up the ends of notes being played, giving them extra sizzle. Besides this, it also smears some notes in the mid-range making them sound rougher, which can sound organic if not for the extra sizzle on brighter notes accompanying it. I hope I am making sense.

 However, the HP-out still has some use for me. The reason is the difference in sound signature that it presents. I thoroughly enjoy acoustic and mid-centric music with the HP-out because of it's warm nature, compared to the current line-out setup. The line-out has slightly recessed mids in comparison and works well for classical and rock.

 Will post more impressions later, if you guys are willing to be bored a bit more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Some opamps will meld better with the headphone amplifier then others.
 There are users that go with the onboard amp, some that use the line out and some that use an external amplifier. Careful, opamps get to be a hobby very quickly.


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Some opamps will meld better with the headphone amplifier then others._

 

Yeah! I noticed that with LT1358. Worked like a charm with minor loss in detail. Nice and lukewarm setup.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ Careful, opamps get to be a hobby very quickly._

 

I am thinking of getting more ^_^


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am thinking of getting more_

 

you are doomed


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah! I noticed that with LT1358. Worked like a charm with minor loss in detail. Nice and lukewarm setup._

 

Great, if the work good for your setup. I didn't mind these ones but prefered others much more. 
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am thinking of getting more ^_^_

 

There are many great units out there. Happy testing.


----------



## Bojamijams

So what would be your preference ROBSCIX instead of the JRC's with the 710HA as buffer?

 1057?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Depends on what type of signature you like.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Hi everyone 
 It's been quite sometime since my first and last three posts in the sneak peak thread,
 and now I'm back with some questions.

 I've read about half of the thread seeking to find the signature of each OpAmps everyone is using. It seems like LME49720NA, LME49710HA, and LT1358 are good choices for my listening preference, which is leaned towards sparkling details, treble, vocal presentation, and wide soundstage; and I don't put much emphasis on bass. Still, I'm not quite certain among these choices since people tend to compare LMEs to LMEs, and LTs to LTs, but not across the species.

 Therefore I'd appreciate any advice given to me regarding this point. Or maybe convince me to another OpAmp that suits my preference above. But as far as I've read, I think those 3 sound popular.

 BTW, my setup is exclusively speakers (Klipsch ProMedia GMX-A2.1)

 PS. Will dual 710HAs force the shield to be removed? I know it does nothing but fries the components, but can't help myself thinking that the black aluminium plate looks so cool and feel reluctant to have it put away


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Depends on what type of signature you like._

 

I'm not quite sure I'd want to change the signature with the A5's at all, I'm just looking for more resolution and more fluidity in its representation... more tube like I suppose


----------



## ROBSCIX

It has been quite awhile since I used the Essence cards. These cards have a very Tubish sound on their own IMO. You may get a more valve like response form the LT1057's...
 I would just suggest trying the ones you have one hand and find the best mixture with the Dual LME49710HA.
 How do you like that one? 
 If your looking for more resolution you may want to move way from the warmer opamps.
 I frown at giving opamps recomendation because everybody has such different tastes, in sound,


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exFictitiouZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everyone 
 It's been quite sometime since my first and last three posts in the sneak peak thread,
 and now I'm back with some questions.

 I've read about half of the thread seeking to find the signature of each OpAmps everyone is using. It seems like LME49720NA, LME49710HA, and LT1358 are good choices for my listening preference, which is leaned towards sparkling details, treble, vocal presentation, and wide soundstage; and I don't put much emphasis on bass. Still, I'm not quite certain among these choices since people tend to compare LMEs to LMEs, and LTs to LTs, but not across the species.

 Therefore I'd appreciate any advice given to me regarding this point. Or maybe convince me to another OpAmp that suits my preference above. But as far as I've read, I think those 3 sound popular.

 BTW, my setup is exclusively speakers (Klipsch ProMedia GMX-A2.1)

 PS. Will dual 710HAs force the shield to be removed? I know it does nothing but fries the components, but can't help myself thinking that the black aluminium plate looks so cool and feel reluctant to have it put away _

 

The LME49720HA and LME49710HA are both TO-99 units. WHich means they are small metal can opamps and need adapters to work with any DIP8 equipped soundcard. They are great opamps and many using these cards use some combination using one or both of these units.


----------



## Gibertus Jeunus

Hi,

 I just replaced the stock JRC I/V opamps by 2xLT1028ACN8 and the sound is now very very low. Can someone enlighten me about this?


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_





_

 

Looks like somebody loves Linear Technology a lot!

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exFictitiouZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It seems like LME49720NA, LME49710HA, and LT1358 are good choices for my listening preference, which is leaned towards sparkling details, treble, vocal presentation, and wide soundstage; and I don't put much emphasis on bass. Still, I'm not quite certain among these choices since people tend to compare LMEs to LMEs, and LTs to LTs, but not across the species.

 Therefore I'd appreciate any advice given to me regarding this point. Or maybe convince me to another OpAmp that suits my preference above. But as far as I've read, I think those 3 sound popular.

 BTW, my setup is exclusively speakers (Klipsch ProMedia GMX-A2.1)_

 

You speakers appear to be very bass oriented. Either of those will work fine for you for that reason. If you find the highs to be a bit piercing then I think LT1358 will be a good choice because of it's slight roll-off in the top-end. 

 If you are satisfied with the highs then either of the LMEs or LT1364 will be more suited for you. I have compared the signature of LT1364 and LM4562 (which I guess are the same as LME49720NA, someone please back me up here) and found that LM4562 is a bit bass light in comparison. If you are satisfied with the bass currently then LT1364 (if brightness is fine) or LT1358 (if current setup too bright) would be my recommendations. 

 These are the op-amps I have tried and my recommendations are limited to them. Look out for other suggestions which will give you enough qualitative assessment of your choices.

 PS - This post will give you a good comparison between these op-amps. If you ask me to guess I'll say that your speakers are going to be similar to DT990.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3764631-post1502.html


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gibertus Jeunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi,

 I just replaced the stock JRC I/V opamps by 2xLT1028ACN8 and the sound is now very very low. Can someone enlighten me about this?_

 

IIRC LT1028 are single channel opamps. I am surprised you are getting any sound at all.
 Replace them asap to prevent damage to SC.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like somebody loves Linear Technology a lot!



 You speakers appear to be very bass oriented. Either of those will work fine for you for that reason. If you find the highs to be a bit piercing then I think LT1358 will be a good choice because of it's slight roll-off in the top-end. 

 If you are satisfied with the highs then either of the LMEs or LT1364 will be more suited for you. I have compared the signature of LT1364 and LM4562 (which I guess are the same as LME49720NA, someone please back me up here) and found that LM4562 is a bit bass light in comparison. If you are satisfied with the bass currently then LT1364 (if brightness is fine) or LT1358 (if current setup too bright) would be my recommendations. 

 These are the op-amps I have tried and my recommendations are limited to them. Look out for other suggestions which will give you enough qualitative assessment of your choices.

 PS - This post will give you a good comparison between these op-amps. If you ask me to guess I'll say that your speakers are going to be similar to DT990.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/3764631-post1502.html_

 

It's true indeed that my speakers are bass-oriented, and that's why I don't put much emphasis on bass. I'm looking for brighter/airier opamps to balance things out.

 Again, thanks for your kind advice 

 BTW, how would you describe your current setup with 1364 and 1358s?


----------



## manuvajpai

I use the setup with both the HP out and line-out to drive my low-power headphones. The line-out is considerably airier and the HP-out is a tad warm. Bass and mids are slightly pushed up in HP-out which works brilliantly for vocals, but for rock and classical the line-out sounds more balanced. I would say the line-out would be perfect for you, unless you want to reduce the bass a lot more. In that case I suggest that you keep LM4562 as the buffer, instead of LT1364. Both are almost equally airy (didn't compare a lot after noticing the bass difference).

 Compared to stock there is a lot more detail and definition. While the soundstage of stock was pretty wide, the depth and instrument separation were missing. It all sounded two dimensional with stock JRCs. With any other good op-amp you'll notice a major difference.

 The reason why I chose LT is because of free samples so no bias here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. You may as well try others.

 Glad I could be of help.


----------



## manuvajpai

On another note, I checked out my el-cheapo sony component system with the line-out. The sony itself is a bit polite in the trebles and mids. You can think of it as a HD650 in terms of signature (you know you belong here when you judge speakers based on headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). 

 Turns out that the current setup doesn't make it any more eager, coming from the line-out. The decay is slow and the sound makes it appear like the listener is on heroine. So it appears that my current setup is somewhere between laid-back and neutral. In other words, PRAT = fail! This will be an issue with computer speakers as well because of their boomy bass and lethargic response. If you want more aggressiveness then this setup is not the best option. In the end it depends on your speakers and your listening preferences. 

 I tested at medium-low volume levels on the component system. Things do improve on pumping it up but then it can get too loud for my preference, since the speakers are kept on my desk. Since your's are computer speakers I am guessing you are using them in near-field configuration too, so you will be keeping the volume in the same territory.

 Stupid component system! Tried other op-amps with the same result.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Thanks for everything. I just ordered 2 LT1358s and 3 LME49720NAs
 Let's see how things will turn out when they all arrived. 

 Currently I've a pair of OPA2132Ps in the I/V section.
 Stay tuned for comparisons


----------



## manuvajpai

OPA2132? You are gonna see a huge change! If you are choosing LME after Burr brown then you are basically doing a complete flip in terms of sound signature. In fact if you look at the signature of LME49720 in a mirror you are gonna see that it has transformed into an OPA 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Edit: Confirmed! LME49720 buffer + 2*LT1364 = super detailed and smooth mids and highs once you adjust to the slightly bright/bass-shy setup. Not so good out of the HP amp with 2*LT1364.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

The OPAs are there just because they were once popular in the sneak peak thread half a year back when the card was just freshly released. The 2132 gained much attention at that time and I haven't visited the forum since then.

 Although your verdict [super detailed and smooth mids and highs ...] sounds very intriguing, I'd hold my pocket until the ordered items arrive. Since a pair of LT1364 costs 26 bucks plus 5 shipping bucks (as far as I searched eBay), so unless the LT1358s are so unimpressive, which I think they aren't, I'll stick with them. (A pair of 1358's costs 8 dollars plus 4 dollars for shipping)

 Thanks again for everything so far


----------



## manuvajpai

Whoa! The LT guys sure are generous to send me free samples in that case. I feel bad


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looks like somebody loves Linear Technology a lot!_

 

not really, as someone said on diyaudio: The best sounding audio integrated opamps - Page 22 - diyAudio

 the LT chips were not meant for audio, they were all flawed in my book...and I don't like dual op-amps anyway, the center channel is shrunk down to death...singles on browndogs FTW:





 then LT1028ACN8 sounds quite nice


----------



## Gibertus Jeunus

this last post is interesting, 2x2xLT10280ACN8 should then work on stx. and thank you Gurubhai


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gibertus Jeunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_2x2xLT10280ACN8 should then work on stx._

 

be glad you didn't kill your card!


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *exFictitiouZ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Although your verdict [super detailed and smooth mids and highs ...] sounds very intriguing, I'd hold my pocket until the ordered items arrive. Since a pair of LT1364 costs 26 bucks plus 5 shipping bucks (as far as I searched eBay), so unless the LT1358s are so unimpressive, which I think they aren't, I'll stick with them. (A pair of 1358's costs 8 dollars plus 4 dollars for shipping)_

 

I guess you'll get a very good setup with 1*LT1358 buffer and 2*LME49720 in I/V as well. 3 LMEs will get bass light (might be great for your speakers).


----------



## Gibertus Jeunus

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_be glad you didn't kill your card!_

 

yes, and too bad it's so complicated to get infos on these jrc while lm4562 datasheet is so easily available as others, should have been more carefull. there's always a first time. Besides, everything's ok now with stock back.
 I'm wondering if there's enough room on the stx to mount 4xLT1028with adaptors.


----------



## manuvajpai

I think there is, as long as you manage vertical space well.


----------



## Gibertus Jeunus

this means there's not side by side,
 anyway I think I'll try 2xLT1358+LT1364


----------



## ROBSCIX

The JRC 2114D are a generic opamp, this is why it is hard to find the spec sheet.
 JRC is New Japan Radio company IIRC. If you look up their site you shoudl be able to find the spcification sheets for the 2114D's...


----------



## gurubhai

^^It can't be that hard to find. Have it lying in my documents. I think a simple google search does the trick.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I didn't say it was impossible to find!


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gibertus Jeunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_too bad it's so complicated to get infos on these jrc_

 

rules are simple:
 -never replace a single by a dual or a dual by a single(browndogs would be required to do that)
 -make sure that they can take 24V(±12V)
 -triple-check that none of them are upside down before powering on(I usually check 3 or 4 times, better be safe than sorry)

 and these days, I usually test new op-amps w/ some crappy headphones for like 15 mins then I plug my cd1k afterwards if everything's fine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you can use 4*LT1028ACN8, but you'll need additional sockets to use as risers...someone did it in this thread a few weeks ago, make sure to use high grade gold plated ones to do that.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Gibertus Jeunus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes, and too bad it's so complicated to get infos on these jrc while lm4562 datasheet is so easily available as others, should have been more carefull. there's always a first time. Besides, everything's ok now with stock back.
 I'm wondering if there's enough room on the stx to mount 4xLT1028with adaptors._

 

..as for the JRC 2114D, from the spec sheet:

 NJM2114 is a high performance dual low noise operational amplifier that could be replaced in application with NJM5532.Comparing to NJM5532; it has superior specifications on Slew Rate，Bandwidth and Offset Voltage. Furthermore lower noise and distortion are achieved，it is applicable for Hi-Fi audio equipments.

 ●Operating Voltage (±3.0V to ±22.0V) 
 ●High Slew Rate (15V/μs typ.) 
 ●Wide Gain Bandwidth Product (13MHz typ.) 
 ●Low Noise Voltage (0.9μVrms typ.) 
 ●High Output Current (60mA typ.) 
 ●Package Outline (DIP8，DMP8，SIP8) 
 ●Bipolar Technology 


 The sockets for the I/V section are very close together so there are a few ways to get them to work.
 Stack the socket or use extension cables.


----------



## manuvajpai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^It can't be that hard to find. Have it lying in my documents. I think a simple google search does the trick._

 

Just saw your signature. Doesn't that setup get too dark for your tastes? I am kinda interested in the Burr Browns.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *manuvajpai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Just saw your signature. Doesn't that setup get too dark for your tastes? I am kinda interested in the Burr Browns._

 

IMO, The OPA2107's aren't dark at all...if anything they are quite bright.
 Many would say that Burr Brown makes some of the best audio opamps out there.


----------



## gurubhai

@manu : No darkness at all. I use the headphone amp since my sennheisers are very underpowered via lineout.

 One can't generalise how an opamp would affect the sound of different headphones.I loved the LT1057 with HD595 but with HD580s it didn't mate well. The mids sounded too recessed.
 HD580 seem to do better with opamp capable of higher voltage output like LT1361,LT1358,OPA2137 & OPA2111.
 I loved the sound out of OPA2137 however its strong bass makes the mid bass hump of 580s more prominent,which I don't like & am now back to OPA2111.
 OPA2137 are a perfect match though for DT880/600 which my roommate owns.
 In Summary : 

 OPA2111 : most balanced out of the burr-browns.

 OPA2137 : Euphonic with more bass than some headphones would like.

 OPA2107 : tad bright like rob said but still have the characteristic burr-brown sound.

 I also tried OPA2132,2127,2277 but didn't care much for them.

 My advice to opamp rollers is to try it out yourself.Only you can decide whats best on your system. If you can't try them, then try getting impressions from people whose system closely matches yours.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can really only use anothers opinion to narrow down to what you think you may like. As Gurubhai mentioned everybody is using different gear and different ears so what you might think sound good won't to another..etc.
 If you want to talk with others that are testing various opamps or ask questions, there is a opamps thread in the DIY section: Opamp thread


----------



## Bojamijams

Which OPA2137 is a better one to get.. the P or the PA?

 The difference between them is that the P has voltage input offset of 1500µV whereas the PA has a 2500µV


----------



## gurubhai

^^I have only tried the P version.


----------



## manuvajpai

Thanks for the info gurubhai. Now time to get some brown chips. ^_^


----------



## dex85

i picked up a new Stereophile issue today and couldn't believe my eyes. Essence STX on the cover. so far i read only the 'Measurements' part to find out about the specs i was long eager to know. so the line-out output impedance is 99 ohms and 10.7 ohms for headphone output. they measured 114dB SNR @ 1V output for line-out. S/PDIF output jitter @ 44.1kHz was 1.48ns, analogue output was 170ps & 186ps (left and right). the review should appear on their website in a month or so.


----------



## gurubhai

interesting.
 why did they measure the line out at 1V. The default output of line out is 2V.
 What about Headphone out?


----------



## dex85

i think 1V is reference when measuring SNR. they also mentioned the line maximum output level was 2.16V; they didn't mention headphone output SNR. 

 they were measuring all specs they usually do, it should appear on their website soon, or you can always grab a printed issue 

 i'm going to read the rest


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Dex85, they had a look at both cards and it looks like there is a ST on the front cover. 
 Here is a quote from the article "The Xonar ST and STX are by far the least expensive way of turning a PC into a genuine high-resolution audio source that I have encountered"
 Not too bad... It would be nice if they started reviewing more PC audio hardware.


----------



## dex85

yes, my bad, it's ST on the cover. John Atkinson wrote he mostly listened to STX, measurements were taken on STX as well. he mentioned ST measured worse than STX, but didn't make comment on ST sounding better than STX. maybe he should have listened more to the former.

 i think they finally realized what year it is, lately they have been giving a PC audio an attention it deserves.


----------



## mojave

I just read the article. The author mentions that the only difference he could find between the two cards was that one was PCI and one was PCI-E. No mention was made of the H6 add on card for the ST or its auto clock tuning to reduce jitter. 

 He installed the cards in two different computers with different hardware and operating systems. The ST was in the "older PC" computer with XP SP3. The STX was tested in a new computer with Vista Home Premium. With different power supplies, motherboards, etc. it is no wonder that the measurements are different.

 He mentioned twice that the cards cannot play 88.2 or 176.4 without resampling. He says at the end of the article, "However, given the increasing number of high quality files being offered for download with sample rates of 88.2 or 176.4kHz, their omission is a major impediment to my giving either of these cards a universal recommendation." Maybe Asus or C-Media will provide these sample rates without resampling in the future. 

 The author had trouble with 96 and 192 kHz files being resampled down to 48 kHz. However, I think he didn't understand how to set the correct rate in Vista or use WASAPI exclusive mode. He did say he contacted Asus about it but didn't get a reply by press time.


----------



## leeperry

I've never been able to play 192kHz on XP in KS...all it did was outputting very noisy sound, whatever rate I set in the drivers...yes these cards are a resampling nonsense on windows, I wonder how they'd sound on Linux


----------



## Bojamijams

Just installed the OPA2137P's in the I/V slots... the difference is not major (obviously) but I do feel a bit fuller sound in the lower end.. I think the card has lots some of its agressiveness and is much more balanced now which is what I wanted... 

 Going to need more time with it obviously but .. I definetly like this combo!


----------



## ROBSCIX

...still using the LME49710HA's I see.


----------



## Bojamijams

Oh yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After a few more hours of listening, I'm convinced this is a magical mix. Now, this is using the line-outs to the audioengine A5's so thats what I'm talkign about, no headphones or anything, but wow... yeah baby!


----------



## KingFiercer

What are the differences between LME49710HA and LME49720NA? Does anyone know? =)


----------



## Bojamijams

710 is single channel.. I'm using two of them on a stereo adapter that ROBSCIX made for me 

 as for HA/NA.. HA is the TO-99 model and the NA are the DIP-8 version


----------



## KingFiercer

I found the stock LM4562 too sharp in the middle, even with non-bright headphones Beyerdinamic DT 250... I think to try the combination of 1x LME49720NA and 2x OPA2137P (good, they are cheap).
 I want to get the same elastic tight bass, as with the LM4562, but with unpainted middle, not cutting the ears at an acceptable volume. What do you think, I'll get it with them? =)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Try them out. The card also has a EQ for trimming...


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

I have a question, will leaving on the DS3D GX DSP effect have any affect on my music or anything else, or will it only be activated when I start up a game? Just wondering since I sometimes forget to turn it on when I first launch a game, would be easier to leave it on all the time.


----------



## stoutblock

Hey Robscix your mailbox is full (Trying to respond to the mail you sent me).

 Also, what is the differance between the LT1057CN8 and the LT1057ACN8?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what is the differance between the LT1057CN8 and the LT1057ACN8?_

 

"A" is a higher grade, and "I" has better thermal specs(always useful in a PC case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 try LT1211ACN8, it's good stuff


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_"A" is a higher grade, and "I" has better thermal specs(always useful in a PC case 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 try LT1211ACN8, it's good stuff 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Thanks, try the LT1211ACN8 in the I/V or buffer?


----------



## leeperry

LT1124ACN8 is great too...nope didn't try them on the Xonar cards, let us how how they do for you


----------



## stoutblock

With my limited supply of opamps the combination that sounds the best so far is LME49720NA in the I/V spots and LT1057ACN8 in the buffer.

 Want to try the LME49720HA in the I/V spots but need to pick up an adapter.


----------



## leeperry

try AD797B, they are WELL worth the money...a far cry from the LME parts IMO.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_With my limited supply of opamps the combination that sounds the best so far is LME49720NA in the I/V spots and LT1057ACN8 in the buffer.

 Want to try the LME49720HA in the I/V spots but need to pick up an adapter._

 

I cleaned out my inbox. I get many PM's.


----------



## applegd

The Molex 4 pin power connector supplies +12, GND and +5V. Anyone knows whether the STX/ST circuit board use +12V only? 

 I had a quick look at my ST card couple days ago, I saw Linear regulator 7812 and 7805 on the circuit board.


----------



## leeperry

the DSP most likely needs 5V, check its datasheet


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applegd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Molex 4 pin power connector supplies +12, GND and +5V. Anyone knows whether the STX/ST circuit board use +12V only? 

 I had a quick look at my ST card couple days ago, I saw Linear regulator 7812 and 7805 on the circuit board._

 

The amplifier section on this card swings form -12 to positive +12. Both cards have an negative supply circuit that gives the -12 Volts. 
 Only logic signals are taken from the slot.

 Hope that helps.


----------



## Criswell

Just got my soundcard in today! I take lunch in about 40 minutes for a quick install/test. Also just ordered 5 of the LME49720 DIP8! If I don't think I like the sound of the stock opamp it's definitely upgrade time even though the manufacturer's specs are completely identical between the 2. 

 I'm still doing tons of reading, this thread is huge!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Did you order chip version or metal can opamps? Many prefer the metal can opamps for the ST/STX over the chip version of the same unit.
 If you have any opamp questions post them.


----------



## Criswell

Oh crap I didn't even look into that, I'm barely on like page 14 of this thread so I'm way behind!

 I ordered this chip LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

 And just order the 5 samples from the Sample page User Login

 EDIT: 2nd link goes to User Login but it's just a link to order samples for the chip.


----------



## drewfus420

Just got my soundcard in today! I take lunch in about 40 minutes for a quick install/test. Also just ordered 5 of the LME49720 DIP8


  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Did you order chip version or metal can opamps? Many prefer the metal can opamps for the ST/STX over the chip version of the same unit._

 

sounds like he got the dip8


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Criswell* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh crap I didn't even look into that, I'm barely on like page 14 of this thread so I'm way behind!

 I ordered this chip LME49720 - Dual High Performance, High Fidelity Audio Operational Amplifier

 And just order the 5 samples from the Sample page User Login

 EDIT: 2nd link goes to User Login but it's just a link to order samples for the chip._

 

IIRC,

 MA = SOIC8 needs an adapter for use on these cards
 HA = Metal Can TO-99 version needs adapter for use on these cards.
 NA = DIP8 will work out of the box with these soundcards.

 Check and see which versions you ordered.


----------



## Criswell

My bad, for some reason the link just went to LME49720 page, I ordered the NA (DIP8)..


----------



## ROBSCIX

No those are fine. They are a good place to start if your new to opamps as they will pop right in. The other version woudl have needed adapters.


----------



## Bojamijams

I just have to restate, after spending days with this combo now, that this is truly a magical combo. I've never been happier or more impressed with this setup then I am right now. 

 I'd love to hear a combo even under a $1,000 that could match this, let alone for under $500 which is what this is. ( STX with the opamps + Audioengine A5s)


----------



## ROBSCIX

Will have to try out that combo...


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just have to restate, after spending days with this combo now, that this is truly a magical combo. I've never been happier or more impressed with this setup then I am right now. 

 I'd love to hear a combo even under a $1,000 that could match this, let alone for under $500 which is what this is. ( STX with the opamps + Audioengine A5s)_

 

Glad you like them too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 After playing with a bit with OPA2111, I am back to the 2137s.
 They do have that magical lower end.
 And to think, they had been lying with me for more than 6 months before I tried them, certainly not gonna happen again.


----------



## Bojamijams

yes I have to thank you gurubhai, your breakdown on the OPA's is what made me get the 2137's and I'm very glad you posted that


----------



## ROBSCIX

Hmm, two good postings about them. Very interesting.


----------



## Starpig

Hi guys, i have to ask something...
 I'm preparing my soundcard to install discrete opamps, so today i removed DIP8 sockets...By doing this, i damaged one of the 4 caps surrounding the buffer socket. Those caps seems to my eyes to be metalized plastic film caps and are marked as 2n7 400 and have a "J" behind (i've found that those symbols means 2.7nF 400V 5% tollerance caps, true?).
 Now, i've searched for a replacement but haven't found anything!!

 Do you know if i can replace them with something similar?

 I hobe youre gonna help me with this problem..

 Thank you!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Starpig* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi guys, i have to ask something...
 I'm preparing my soundcard to install discrete opamps, so today i removed DIP8 sockets...By doing this, i damaged one of the 4 caps surrounding the buffer socket. Those caps seems to my eyes to be metalized plastic film caps and are marked as 2n7 400 and have a "J" behind (i've found that those symbols means 2.7nF 400V 5% tollerance caps, true?).
 Now, i've searched for a replacement but haven't found anything!!

 Do you know if i can replace them with something similar?

 I hobe youre gonna help me with this problem..

 Thank you!_

 

Take a picture so we can get a better idea of which caps you messed up.
 Caps are fairly generic and you should be able to find a replacment.
 Can I ask why you pulled the sockets?
 I would have replaced them with a higher quality socket if I was you but not removed them totally. -That is unless I was totally sure I liked the sound quality of the untis I was installing. 
 Which are you installing?


----------



## Starpig

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Take a picture so we can get a better idea of which caps you messed up.
 Caps are fairly generic and you should be able to find a replacment.
 Can I ask why you pulled the sockets?
 I would have replaced them with a higher quality socket if I was you but not removed them totally. -That is unless I was totally sure I liked the sound quality of the untis I was installing. 
 Which are you installing?_

 

I can't shot photo of the card now, but im talking about those little white caps that are near/in contact with the socket of the buffer opamp (LM4562NA by default). I can't find caps with the same specifics, but now i think i'm gonna buy something very similar except for the capacity wich will be a little bigger, but usually this isn't a big probem...

 I'm removing sockets cause i'm gonna put some Burson Audio discrete opamps wich are a definitive choice, theire considered the best opamps out there...


----------



## Regime|Life

I'm really sorry if this has been answered but I'm wondering how do you Canadian guys get the op-amps?


----------



## Bojamijams

Digikey.ca


----------



## Reactance

I've had the STX and the HD 650 now for a couple of weeks, the HD 650 is probably around 50-60 hours burn in aswell as the card. The HD 650 got the stock cables. As it is now, I'm extremely impressed with the sound quality. However, when I play songs which got pretty loud highs, especially female singers, I get this really intense sibilance. Now, I've had this problem before with my Klipsch Custom 3 IEM's that was pared with an Ipod Touch. It did improve when I added a homemade 40 ohm plugg on the 3,5mm and thus making it a 72 ohm IEM but it was still present. When i got the HD650s however I was really hoping that I could hear the high pitched sounds without the hisses but no, I still get them quite alot. 

 As this thread got a lot of people who probably also have the HD 650 I was hoping someone could answer if there is any possible way, maby recommed opamps, to reduce this sibilance, if not remove it completly. I am aware that both my IEMs and cans are quite analytic but that is what I love about them.

 Also, is there any point in adding a seperate amp in order to increase SQ? I am more than satisfied with the sound volume, at the moment I cant really go above 25%, but I do wish to have the best possible sounding set. I have heard that the darkvoice tube amps might be good, and I do like the tube "flavor" but yet, I do have to be realistic about the money spendt vs gain in sound quality bliss.


----------



## Reactance

And happy new year.


----------



## dex85

yup, most of the recordings are overcooked in highs and it can get tiresome with transparent gear. you could try the 1057 op-amps in I/V to get the tubish sound and reduce sibilance.

 i think headphone section of the card is very capable in terms of driving the demanding headphones. no sense in buying an external amp under $200 with this card. some people don't like its forward and revealing presentation that has no mercy with less than stellar recordings. it's about what sound you prefer and what recordings do you mostly listen to.

 i jumped on the external amplifier wagon not a long ago and it's mainly different sound character of the amp that i noticed.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_most of the recordings are overcooked in highs and it can get tiresome with transparent gear._

 

you should replace "transparent" by "agressive and spikey", as I very much disagree that "most of the recordings are overcooked in highs"...OTOH the STX does, yes...especially w/ poor IC opamps, if that's what you meant.

 sorry for this reality check, but you're complaining about the STX sound basically, yet blame the recordings.


----------



## dex85

i complained about the recordings, most of them are that way, especially modern pop/rock. still, STX's headphone output has an overly forward sound which may be interpreted as edgy.

 and i'm very well in check with reality, thank you.


----------



## leeperry

_"overly forward sound"_ I would have to agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the 4562 is famous for bringing upfront stuff hidden in the mix, and kill the SS depth to make up for width...so it only worsens things IMHO.


----------



## dex85

it depends on amp too. mine render nice deep soundstage at the slight expense of width. but i haven't experiment with op-amps at buffer yet. to compare it with STX headphone out, there is definitely deeper SS and more smooth, grain-free, almost analog like sound with better controlled bottom end and cleaner highs.

 i still think STX headphone output sounds great and with little or no traces of harshness with good recordings. lately i have been listening to Norah Jones - Fall (great recording, except for the one song with some noise in the background) and was nothing but impressed with STX HP out. surely there wasn't such control over signal as with BCL but to call STX's HP section incompetent or some other names as you like to give it would be way off.


----------



## leeperry

well, many ppl including thoppa and Sharose find the STX HP amp terribly harsh and agressive(some go as far as pulling caps off the card 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)...but everyone hears differently anyway, so more power to you if you like it stock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 do yourself a favor, ditch that nasty 4562NA for something better...like OPA2132P, OPA-Earth, OPA1611, AD797B, Burson, whatever


----------



## dex85

i'll try various combinations, too bad there is one more variable now. it's going to take some time.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it depends on amp too. mine render nice deep soundstage at the slight expense of width. but i haven't experiment with op-amps at buffer yet. to compare it with STX headphone out, there is definitely deeper SS and more smooth, grain-free, almost analog like sound with better controlled bottom end and cleaner highs.

 i still think STX headphone output sounds great and with little or no traces of harshness with good recordings. lately i have been listening to Norah Jones - Fall (great recording, except for the one song with some noise in the background) and was nothing but impressed with STX HP out. surely there wasn't such control over signal as with BCL but to call STX's HP section incompetent or some other names as you like to give it would be way off._

 

Agreed. The sound from the line out is even better without the line out coupling caps. By the way these caps have no effect on the headphone out as it is already D.C. coupled from the factory. Removing these caps from the line out & putting wire in thier place opens up the soudstage even more & the sound is more vibrant & real sounding than the stock line out, but you will notice any poorly made recordings as such even more so than before which may become an irritant if that is what you mostly have. Good recordings will be at thier very best however.


----------



## leeperry

my current best on the HD2 is to feed two burson's into AD797BN's...so I get that mad analog Burson sound PLUS the totally versatile AD797B SS, I'll try 3 Burson's very soon...but usually it's better to use different op-amps anyway for buffer/DAC output. I've tried 6x AD797B and it was very harsh and dull.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The sound from the line out is even better without the line out coupling caps._

 

what's the procedure for this? would i have to remove the caps literally? it sounds like a good prospect but i don't have skills nor experience for this.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what's the procedure for this? would i have to remove the caps literally? it sounds like a good prospect but i don't have skills nor experience for this._

 

If you don't want to remove the caps themselves you can bypass them by soldering a piece of wire across thier terminals on the back side of the board. This electrically takes them out of the circuit as the signal will take the path of least resistance (the wire instead of the cap). You will hear the same improvements without having to completely remove the caps. 

 I will say that the traces on this board are delicate & easily damaged if you get impatient in thier removal, I made that mistake, I spent several hours trying to repair my own mistake in that regard when removing one of the caps. I did get it fixed though & the sound is great.

 The caps in question are the CE8 & CE14 on the STX. Not sure about the numbers on the ST. Either way you will have to do some soldering so if you are uncomfortable with that then maybe have someone do it that is good at that.These are the metal can caps closest to the line out.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_what's the procedure for this? would i have to remove the caps literally?_

 






 ok, I'm off to solder some OPA1611...Andrea keeps boasting about them, can't be all that bad


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_



_

 

Not recommended. These caps set too close to the board to effectively cut out.


----------



## dex85

way too complicated for me + i have no soldering skills 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i would probably just damage the card beyond repair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'll have to ask someone else to do it for me


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_way too complicated for me + i have no soldering skills 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i would probably just damage the card beyond repair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i'll have to ask someone else to do it for me_

 

Good plan. Have them save the caps if they remove them in case you decide to put them back in though I think that like the sound better without them.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i would probably just damage the card beyond repair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

the PCB on these Essence cards is 4 layers, anything like taking off the DIP8 sockets is indeed rocket science...even highly skilled technicians would think twice before trying, fotios told me that it's a plain ***** to take off the 3 sockets..and that electronics shop near my place told me he wouldn't touch it, too risky to kill tracks.


----------



## dex85

i couldn't fit the TO-99 pins to DIP8 socket (i forgot to trim them in first place and then spent an hour trying and lamenting why won't it fit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). so removing the caps is indeed a science for me.


----------



## leeperry

hummmm I'm starting to believe in op-amp burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've swapped two well burned in AD797BN on Browndog+DIP8 sockets...and they sound far better than brand new AD797BN from the same exact batch directly soldered on Browndog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 either it's a manufacturing inconsistence, or maybe burn-in does matter after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OTOH, I've also removed the blue-tak I had put on the clocks...maybe that's where the SQ difference actually comes from, I'll reswap in the next coming days: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/ipo...ak-mod-434926/


----------



## applegd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the PCB on these Essence cards is 4 layers, anything like taking off the DIP8 sockets is indeed rocket science...even highly skilled technicians would think twice before trying, fotios told me that it's a plain ***** to take off the 3 sockets..and that electronics shop near my place told me he wouldn't touch it, too risky to kill tracks._

 

Not so difficult. The key is controlling the desoldering temperature....


----------



## corentin

Hey guys!

 I have had a STX on a MC15+250MC combo from Dynaudio and two different headphones : a Sennheiser HD600 and a Denon D7000 for a few days now. So far, I am very disappointed in the sound...After very careful listening sessions with my recordings it dosen't sound any better than the internal sound processor of my motherboard (asus P6T7WS supercomputer). I really thought it would make a dramatic difference but there I am, even with my headphones - what the card seems to be reknowned for - the sound is virtually indistinguishable from the one produce by my motherboard...Ok, *maybe* it's a tiny bit more refined but I'm not even sure.

 Plus, I don't know if my card is faulty or something but when I watch videos - especially HD ones - the sound is full of pops, cracks, while there is no sure thing with the internal audio of my motherboard!! If anything, I thought it would have been the other way around!
 Oh, and when I switch between speakers and headphones in the xonar control panel, there's a really nasty cracking sound that is quite loud actually. Is it normal and could it damage my headphones or my speakers?

 Could someone tell me if it's a known issue or if maybe my card needs to be serviced and that it might explain the poor performance improvement I've seen so far...

 Thanks in advance!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i couldn't fit the TO-99 pins to DIP8 socket (i forgot to trim them in first place and then spent an hour trying and lamenting why won't it fit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). so removing the caps is indeed a science for me._

 

I would suggest adapters. Removing these caps is a common procedure for tweaking soundcards.
 Some, just use higher quality caps for this position if you don't want to remove them completely. Unfirtunatley removing and installing new units woudl be more difficult then just bypassing them as germanium suggested.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 The caps in question are the CE8 & CE14 on the STX. Not sure about the numbers on the ST. Either way you will have to do some soldering so if you are uncomfortable with that then maybe have someone do it that is good at that.These are the metal can caps closest to the line out._

 

They are the same component numbers on the ST also. This part of the design is the same.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corentin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys!

 I have had a STX on a MC15+250MC combo from Dynaudio and two different headphones : a Sennheiser HD600 and a Denon D7000 for a few days now. So far, I am very disappointed in the sound...After very careful listening sessions with my recordings it dosen't sound any better than the internal sound processor of my motherboard (asus P6T7WS supercomputer). I really thought it would make a dramatic difference but there I am, even with my headphones - what the card seems to be reknowned for - the sound is virtually indistinguishable from the one produce by my motherboard...Ok, *maybe* it's a tiny bit more refined but I'm not even sure.

 Plus, I don't know if my card is faulty or something but when I watch videos - especially HD ones - the sound is full of pops, cracks, while there is no sure thing with the internal audio of my motherboard!! If anything, I thought it would have been the other way around!
 Oh, and when I switch between speakers and headphones in the xonar control panel, there's a really nasty cracking sound that is quite loud actually. Is it normal and could it damage my headphones or my speakers?

 Could someone tell me if it's a known issue or if maybe my card needs to be serviced and that it might explain the poor performance improvement I've seen so far...

 Thanks in advance!_

 

The pop when switching from headphones to speaker or back is normal for this card. I have measured the D.C. offsets on this card & they are low.

 You may need to go to Asuses website & download the latest drivers. I have no such issues with my STX with windows seven pro 64 bit & the latest drivers.

 As for the sound all the motherboard sound chips I've ever heard are conciderably muffled compared to the STX, even the so called HD ones. The HD audio ones are better than the AC97 ones but still have quite a ways to catch the STX in terms of sound quality. If you use low end speakers or headphones you are wasting your time & money though unless you upgrade the rest of the amps & speakers. High grade amps & speaker will reveal just how deficient those AC97 & onboard HD audio chips are compared to the STX. I will say though the drivers on the CD are not very good. Better to get them online at Asuses site. 

 Your speakers & headphones do seem up to the task though. Are you using a seperate amp for your headphones & what is the amp your driving the speakers with? When I had my setup that used an Adcom GFA 545 amp the sound of this amp stock was appalling & you would not have heard the difference that this card makes period. Same with my current speakers when they were stock but are very very revealing with the internal amps modified. OOPS I see they are internaly biamped & are given good reviews.


----------



## corentin

Thanks for the input germanium.

 However, I too use W7 pro 64 and with the latest drivers from asus' website...Still I get those pops and cracking sound, almost only with videos - especially in HD(720p or 1080p mkvs played with media player classic or VLC) - and it ruins the qualities the card might have possessed - which it don't in my opinion...I don't use any headphone amp at all as I was under the impression, the card was up to the task...Again, my speakers are capable of great things and I am virtually incapable of discerning any difference with the internal sound chip...
 I have had very high end hifi gear in my life and have always felt the upgrade was worth it and my ears are trained to hear those subtle differences. Try as I might, this time I simply don't see where the hype comes from?? (Maybe my card is faulty? Have to try it on another computer to see if the issue with videos comes from me)
 what a disappointment.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 EDIT : I am now considering upgrading to a Musical Fidelity X-Can V8P. I can but hope it would be a great improvement over the DAC/headphone amp combo of the STX. What do you guys think?


----------



## germanium

I see the motherboard contains a PCI express chip to enable quad SLI. SLI chips from NVidia have historically had problems with excessive latencies causing problems with sound cards. You may try disabling this in the BIOS if possible & uninstall NVidias driver for it & see if that helps. The 58 series chipset is good this way but not sure of the NVidia chip used here. It may be adding too much latency which may be causing your pops in videos.

 Just downloaded the manual for your motherboard & it doesn't seem to offer any way to turn off the NVidia chips on this motherboard so unless there is some diference with the actual BIOS which does happen from time to time looks like you may be stuck. For your information I use an Intel 58 series chipset motherboard (Asus P6T)with a Core I7 920 so the intel chipset shouldn't be a problem. Intel chipsets typically have very low latencies but with the NVidia SLI chips added on that can be changed.


----------



## genclaymore

Also do you have the power plug all the way in the STX molex. If it not all the way in or loose that can effect its sound quailty and make it not sound right.


----------



## corentin

Good find Germanium, it could very well be it!
 That's why, I'll try on another system and see if it changes anything in the same circumstances...We'll see!

 Genclaymore, I'll try and reseat the molex cable but, as far as I'm concerned, it's all the way in the card.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_hummmm I'm starting to believe in op-amp burn in 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've swapped two well burned in AD797BN on Browndog+DIP8 sockets...and they sound far better than brand new AD797BN from the same exact batch directly soldered on Browndog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 either it's a manufacturing inconsistence, or maybe burn-in does matter after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OTOH, I've also removed the blue-tak I had put on the clocks...maybe that's where the SQ difference actually comes from, I'll reswap in the next coming days: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/ipo...ak-mod-434926/_

 

well, I went a bit over the top w/ the blutak 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








 anyway, I've removed all of it(took me forever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and put back the soldered AD797BN...and SQ is indeed just as good as before, and slightly clearer than the 797 on additional sockets..I'll let it burn in for a while, then try LT1677/OPA228/LT1028ACN8 for a change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so bluetak on the clocks *does* change the SQ...but not for the better in my case.

 can't wait to get the opamps soldered directly to the board(sockets are evil, especially on the Asus..) and get them 12V modded(instead of 9V stock), I've read reports that the higher the voltage the lesser the distortion on the Burson's, and Burson also strongly advises it.

 for the left op-amp, it'll prolly require putting the two red WIMA caps on the other side of the board as they'll get in the way otherwise...but well, the guy at the electronics shop knows his stuff so I'm not too worried.

 I see there's also a LM 5V regulator, so the HD2 seems to only feed 12V from the PCI slot.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *corentin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good find Germanium, it could very well be it!
 That's why, I'll try on another system and see if it changes anything in the same circumstances...We'll see!

 Genclaymore, I'll try and reseat the molex cable but, as far as I'm concerned, it's all the way in the card._

 

Also, make sure the power cable to the card has no other devices on the cable. This might be a source of some interference.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Also, make sure the power cable to the card has no other devices on the cable. This might be a source of some interference._

 

Its a good idea to not have anything on it anyway, for a cleaner power source


----------



## applegd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its a good idea to not have anything on it anyway, for a cleaner power source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

For the PSU(such as Zalman,Antec etc) DC output ripple and noise spec I checked, , it is 120mv for +/-12V rail.

 My 850W Zalman PSU has 6 rails for +12V.The best I can do is using one dedicated +12V rail for the ST/STX. I tested it before and can see about 50mV ripple there. Not bad as the noise level is very low in RMAA testing report, just between -113 dB and -118 dB depend on which slot I use.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Its a good idea to not have anything on it anyway, for a cleaner power source 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Yes, Other devices can cause interference. With any card that uses a molex power input should be put on it's own tap.


----------



## Shizdan

Hi everybody. I am just looking for some info on upgrading my Essence STX. My cans are HD 580's (600 Grills and 650 Cable) with the HD 650 drivers. Now If I just want to upgrade the "Headphone Out" how many Op amps am I looking at?

 I listen to all types! Classic Rock, New Rock, Hip Hop, Techno.....list goes on. My cans are HD


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody. I am just looking for some info on upgrading my Essence STX. My cans are HD 580's (600 Grills and 650 Cable) with the HD 650 drivers. Now If I just want to upgrade the "Headphone Out" how many Op amps am I looking at?

 I listen to all types! Classic Rock, New Rock, Hip Hop, Techno.....list goes on. My cans are HD_

 

If you are using the headphones out then you need to change the opamps in the differential I/V converter circuit. Simply, you need to change the two JRC 2114D's...
 There is an LM4562NA buffer but it is not used when the headphone out is enabled.


----------



## alksv

Hey guys,
 I've decided to try the Essence ST. I would like to ask what opamps would suit me if I am using the gear in my sig and love my music detailed, with big soundstage and good separation. I listen mostly to jazz, fusion, progrock and funk (but still have a lot of different music). I will be using the RCA out, I guess that means I'm to switch the two buffer opamps only? Would the LME49720 do best for me, or are there some other suggestions? Thanks in advance for the tips and HNY.

 PS: I take it the LME49720 and LM4562 are identical?
 PPS: Sorry for the cross-post in the Essence ST thread.


----------



## Criswell

I just swapped out the stock opamp with the 49720NA and I just want to say, Oh my ****!

 This sounds great, acoustic guitar is STUPID clear. Now the next question, the other 2 opamps? do I put the 49720NA in there as well? I did order 5 of them. I also got the 49720HA but I'm not sure if I'm ready for some soldering yet.


----------



## Shizdan

So I heard that the LME49720NA isn't as good as teh LME49720HA but the NA doesn't need to be soldered onto a dip8 adapter because it already is?


----------



## ROBSCIX

The NA models are DIP8 they snap right into the socket. The HA version are metal can TO-99 and they require adapters.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The NA models are DIP8 they snap right into the socket. The HA version are metal can TO-99 and they require adapters._

 

Do they sound different?


----------



## gurubhai

yes, they do.
 HA version has better bass.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do they sound different?_

 

Yes.
 The TO-99 metal can modules are considered the highest grade of opamp for any opamp family.
 So the LME49720HA should sound better then the NA model.
 To note, I would take a dual LME49710HA module over a single LME49720HA module.

 The LME49710HA is a single channle model so you require two and an adapter.
 Using two single channel version offers improvments in soudn quality as both side of the signal (L & R)
 are kept totally isolated from each other. 
 It depends on the model but in many cases two single channel opamps will sound better then the same family in a dual channel opamp.
 There are a few guys that have been testing the dual LME49710HA module and can confirm what I have posted.


----------



## stoutblock

I just installed some OPA2132P opamps in the I/V slots and a LME49720NA into the buffer slot. 

 Sound seems about right for my setup with the RCA out going to a Decware CSP2 into Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohms HPs. Listening to Supernatural, I think Santana's guitar has come way forward from the previous setup.

 So far so good


----------



## ROBSCIX

That is the great thing about opamps is you can dial in the soudn to fit your personal gear and preference.


----------



## gurubhai

New xonar stx driver Version 7.12.8.1777 is available now.

 Not sure what's changed though.

 Most probably placebo, but seems to improve the sound a bit.


----------



## dex85

where did you get them? i'm looking at asus website and there are just old 7.12.8.1775 drivers for both Vista and 7.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_where did you get them? i'm looking at asus website and there are just old 7.12.8.1775 drivers for both Vista and 7._

 

Ditto. I only see 1775


----------



## Reactance

They don't seem to have updated their website as of yet, but they put it in their FTP.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/PUB/ASUS/Audio...r_Essence_STX/

 3'd from the bottom. It does say Windows 7 though, might just be a bug fix of some sort.


----------



## luminouslight

Google is your best friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



New Asus drivers for Win 7 32/64 (7.12.8.1777) - Guru3D.com Forums


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes.
 The TO-99 metal can modules are considered the highest grade of opamp for any opamp family.
 So the LME49720HA should sound better then the NA model.
 To note, I would take a dual LME49710HA module over a single LME49720HA module.

 The LME49710HA is a single channle model so you require two and an adapter.
 Using two single channel version offers improvments in soudn quality as both side of the signal (L & R)
 are kept totally isolated from each other. 
 It depends on the model but in many cases two single channel opamps will sound better then the same family in a dual channel opamp.
 There are a few guys that have been testing the dual LME49710HA module and can confirm what I have posted._

 

Two questions, I've been thinking about getting dual TO99 for both I/V and buffer.

 First I think the EMI shield won't fit, but does it affect the sound?
 Second, will a twin TO99 with adaptor fits in the I/V, and how much does it sound better than LME49710NAs?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ra97oR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Two questions, I've been thinking about getting dual TO99 for both I/V and buffer.

 First I think the EMI shield won't fit, but does it affect the sound?
 Second, will a twin TO99 with adaptor fits in the I/V, and how much does it sound better than LME49710NAs?_

 

No, the sheild will not fit if the opamps are too big. Depending on what adapters you use you can get the LME49720HA's to fit under the sheild. The 710 uses a larger adapter and using the sheild is impossible without some modification.
 The Twin To-99 adapter will not fit in the I/V sockets without some ingenuity.
 This is why many around here just use them for the buffer position.
 I am pretty much the only person I know that makes this unit around Head-fi.


----------



## Ra97oR

Does removing the shield really increase noise? I am just thinking its another marketing thing anyway. Anyway, how much improvement moving to metal cans?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ra97oR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does removing the shield really increase noise? I am just thinking its another marketing thing anyway. Anyway, how much improvement moving to metal cans?_

 

No, many that work with opamps on these cards just leave the sheilding off as it gets to be a hassle removing it everytime to test new opamps. The choice is yours though.
 The TO-99 opamps are usually the highest grade of any opamps family as they are less suceptible to noise either EMI or RFI.


----------



## Shizdan

I'm kind of confused to as why people put an Op Amp in the buffer (RCA Outs) socket If they don't use the RCA's? Also confused as why they say it effects the sound when they are using the headphone out?


 Ex . Using 2 LME49720NA in the I/V socket and a OPA627AU in the buffer


----------



## KingFiercer

Now I'm using RCA Outs for headphones, because with stock chips it sounds better for me. =) Once purchase 49720NA for HP-out, I will listen through it. =)


----------



## Ra97oR

Now using Line-Out to power a AD1000PRM (AD2000) clearer than the HP out alot. Rather surprised...

 Used it for a bit, certainly cleaner and faster. But it seems to lack the power for the low bass and cymbals hits. And overall less bright. Will see if I would switch back to the HP out. 

 The Line-Out is indeed clearer, but less powerful. Works rather well with the SRH840, but AD1000PRM sounds underpowered.

 Also, soundstage opened up ALOT and a lot more detail.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The line out uses the buffer opamp and the heapdhoens output does not.
 When you switch to the headphone amplifier you can hear the relays click and change the circuit. This removes the buffer from the circuit and pout the headphones amplifier in the circuit instead.
 With line out you have:
 I/V -> Buffer
 And for headphones
 I/V Headphone Amp

 There are many that use the line out for headphones as if you do not need the extra power of the headphone output you can use the line out.
 The line out also has improved specifications over the heapdhones output.
 Headphones output is about a 117dbSNR and Dynamic range
 and the line out is about 124SNR and Dynmaic range.


----------



## ROBSCIX

For those chaning opamps all the time, 
 An easy method I found when working with cards opamps sockets was to use extension cables that are ment for use with discrete opamps. They plug into the sockets of the card and extend the socket out about 4-5 inches using wires.
 This way you can leave the card installed and still change out the opamps.
 Makes changin opamps during testing very easy. Once you find the one you like remove the extensions.
 Note, Do not attempt to change opamps when the system is powered.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
*Note, Do not attempt to change opamps when the system is powered*._

 






 Wonder what would happen lol.

 Regarding my AD1000PRM on Line-Out, I have been using it for a few hours now, it sound much more detailed and opened compare to the HP out but lacking the punch and the cymbals hits. The same problem doesn't really affect the SRH840 as they might not need that much power.

 I can clearly say the HP amp chip inside does do its job, but the Line-Out have superior quality and seems the sound is more balanced too (HP out is abit bright).

 And so the waiting continues for a decent external amp...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Chances are you would hear a loud pop and blow your speakers/headphones and more then likely damage the circuit.

 Well the line out has better specifications and does sound better but it is just a line out and doesn't have the same power consideration that headphones output does. 
 The Line out can work fine with many phones but if you start getting into high impedance headphones you need an amplifier to drive them properly.. You can always connect up your favorite external amplifier to the line out. 
 To note, You can use the I/V opamps to tune the response to a warmer type of signature to counter the "brightness" of the headphone amplifer.


----------



## RobLikesBrunch

Has anyone used this card under both Linux & Windows?

 I'm on a Linux machine, and the card just sounds warmer and fuller to me than when I was on Windows. In Windows it almost seems flatter and less melodic.

 Now I'm afraid that this is simply my disillusion and unadulterated bias...so has anyone else listened to the card on both operating systems?


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ra97oR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Does removing the shield really increase noise? I am just thinking its another marketing thing anyway. Anyway, how much improvement moving to metal cans?_

 

I found the opposite. Not only does removing the shield make no difference in interference, but it also corrects ground loops in my system. So, with the shield on I get a soft buzz in the audio signal at high volumes, but without the shield, there's nothing but blackness.


----------



## applegd

The info below is just as FYI, base on my personal experience after I finished intensive testing in my PCs for both ST and STX.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Headphones output is about a 117dbSNR and Dynamic range
 and the line out is about 124SNR and Dynmaic range._

 

These data are from the official ASUS STX/ST test report, my guess is ASUS R&D engineers used special test environment such as "dedicated, very quite,linear power supply(Not the regular ATX power supply "Delta 650W GPS-650AB B" as they mentioned in their test report)", fully shielded power supply cables, not using regular ATX case etc to get this great testing results. This means the STX and ST circuit and PCB design are very good, with better PSU, they have great potential and they are great product. But this does not mean regular PC can easily achieve this performance level.

 Base on my testing in couple PCs, for STX and ST, the SNR for line out is between -110dB to -118dB depend on which slot I use for the STX/ST card. For Headphone Out, is about 110dB(results depend on Headphone impedance). All my testing results seems inline with the results reported in recent Stereophile magazine Jan,2010 issue.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For those chaning opamps all the time, 
 An easy method I found when working with cards opamps sockets was to use extension cables that are ment for use with discrete opamps. They plug into the sockets of the card and extend the socket out about 4-5 inches using wires._

 

For temporary experiment, this is OK. But this kind cable arrangement can degrade OpAmp circuit performance and stability. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For high frequency circuit, usually this is a NO. It is interesting to see some folks use this method to mod clocking circuit. Potentially the extension cables could defeat the purpose to improve overall performance of clocking circuit.


----------



## applegd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Ra97oR* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can clearly say the HP amp chip inside does do its job, but the Line-Out have superior quality and seems the sound is more balanced too (HP out is abit bright).

 And so the waiting continues for a decent external amp..._

 


 I ran the testing by using 330 Ohm and 33 Ohm as load for headphone out. The result of 330 Ohm load is better than 33 Ohm's.

 When load=33 Ohm, the THD, IMD + Noise, and stereo crosstalk increase significantly.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applegd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ran the testing by using 330 Ohm and 33 Ohm as load for headphone out. The result of 330 Ohm load is better than 33 Ohm's.

 When load=33 Ohm, the THD, IMD + Noise, and stereo crosstalk increase significantly._

 

So I guess it hates Audio Technica phones then @ 40Ohms. Explains why a better soundstage.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applegd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The info below is just as FYI, base on my personal experience after I finished intensive testing in my PCs for both ST and STX.

 These data are from the official ASUS STX/ST test report, my guess is ASUS R&D engineers used special test environment such as "dedicated, very quite,linear power supply(Not the regular ATX power supply "Delta 650W GPS-650AB B" as they mentioned in their test report)", fully shielded power supply cables, not using regular ATX case etc to get this great testing results. This means the STX and ST circuit and PCB design are very good, with better PSU, they have great potential and they are great product. But this does not mean regular PC can easily achieve this performance level._

 

For postings I am going to quote the cards measured specs. 
 I have seen the cards output measure atleast 117 and up to 118.5db just using loopback. The trouble with such a output is what are you going to use to measure up to 124dB? 
 The point I was making to the other poster is the line out is of higher quality then the headphone output and if you do not need the extra power produced from the amplifier the line out is the way to go. To each their own though and it was a suggestion.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applegd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Base on my testing in couple PCs, for STX and ST, the SNR for line out is between -110dB to -118dB depend on which slot I use for the STX/ST card. For Headphone Out, is about 110dB(results depend on Headphone impedance). All my testing results seems inline with the results reported in recent Stereophile magazine Jan,2010 issue._

 

Which is what I just said, the only thing you can do is use a loop back test or connect it to a recording card to allow to mesure such a output. Unless you have a high quality analyzer multi $1000 unit. Both cards have been measured by quite a few people around here. I have measured both cards and compared results with others that I trust to get accurate results. 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applegd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For temporary experiment, this is OK. But this kind cable arrangement can degrade OpAmp circuit performance and stability. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For high frequency circuit, usually this is a NO. It is interesting to see some folks use this method to mod clocking circuit. Potentially the extension cables could defeat the purpose to improve overall performance of clocking circuit._

 

Yes, that is why I said to remove the extension when done testing. The idea is to save time when testing a bunch of different units. You don't leave them in place when your done.


----------



## germanium

118.5 is possable to get & I got it but you have to minimize any outside electrical interfereance which I did by tucking the loopback cable under the case of the pc to use the metal case as a shield & it worked. You are never going to see this type of performance in real situations though. 110db is easilly reachable in real situations though which is plenty. You will never hear noise at any reasonable volume even at this S/N ratio.


----------



## matty429

I can't find a definitive answer:

 Does the amp work through the front panel?

 Some say it does, others say it does not..


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matty429* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find a definitive answer:

 Does the amp work through the front panel?

 Some say it does, others say it does not.._

 

yes it does. I've tried it. channels were reversed Not sure if due to sound card or connector in my computer case other wise sound is excellent & you can either drive them from the headphone amp or line out amp on the front panel. Tried it both ways.


----------



## jonka

I'm slowly reading through this thread, up to page 29 now - but it takes time.
 I've got a few questions which may have been answered already in this thread, if so, I humbly apologize for my impatience.
 I've just ordered Sennheiser HD650 and the Xonar Essence STX, which I hope will prove a good combo - my budget doesn't quite allow for a dedicated amplifier at this point.
 My HD650's are rated at 300ohm/103 dB efficiency, will the high impedance require me to only use the HP output, or can I try to the line out as well?
 When swapping opamps's to say, the 49720NA's - will that change how well the HP and line out outputs perform, as in - can I use other opamps to pull heavier loads?
 Or is that a matter of the size of the capacitors and circuits?

 The I/V and buffer opamps, do they affect both the HP and line out output, or only the HP one ?

 Finally, my main question - I am hoping to play other sources through the soundcard as well, such as my Xbox360. The only input I've noticed, is the 4-pin MCP. This seems to be for connecting a cdrom directly, but can I somehow use it to connect my Xbox360 as well ?


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm slowly reading through this thread, up to page 29 now - but it takes time.
 I've got a few questions which may have been answered already in this thread, if so, I humbly apologize for my impatience.
 I've just ordered Sennheiser HD650 and the Xonar Essence STX, which I hope will prove a good combo - my budget doesn't quite allow for a dedicated amplifier at this point.
 My HD650's are rated at 300ohm/103 dB efficiency, will the high impedance require me to only use the HP output, or can I try to the line out as well?
 When swapping opamps's to say, the 49720NA's - will that change how well the HP and line out outputs perform, as in - can I use other opamps to pull heavier loads?
 Or is that a matter of the size of the capacitors and circuits?

 The I/V and buffer opamps, do they affect both the HP and line out output, or only the HP one ?

 Finally, my main question - I am hoping to play other sources through the soundcard as well, such as my Xbox360. The only input I've noticed, is the 4-pin MCP. This seems to be for connecting a cdrom directly, but can I somehow use it to connect my Xbox360 as well ?_

 

The Xonar STX is an excellent match for your headphones. They sould b e used on the middle gain of the headphone amp for best results though you can also try the main lineout through the front panel 2 speaker setting if you feel the gain is more than you need for your phones & your hearing. This output provides 6db less gain than the middle gain of the headphone amp & 6db more gain than the headphone amps lowest gain.

 49720NA opamps the same as the line out opamp that come with the card, just different label. I would avoid using them in the I/V section as most people report weaker bass from them in that position.

 I/V opamps effect both the HP amp & line out amp

 Line out amp only effects the line outs both rear panel & the front panel if you select front panel 2 speakers.

 You can connect the X-Box to the rear line in with proper interconnect


----------



## jonka

Analog Input Jack:
 6.30mm jack *1 (Shared by Line-In/Mic-In) 

 Is this the input you mentioned?
 Or is there a digital input as well?


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jonka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Analog Input Jack:
 6.30mm jack *1 (Shared by Line-In/Mic-In) 

 Is this the input you mentioned?
 Or is there a digital input as well?_

 

Yes, thats the one. It is purely analog. There is no digital input on this card.


----------



## matty429

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_yes it does. I've tried it. channels were reversed Not sure if due to sound card or connector in my computer case other wise sound is excellent & you can either drive them from the headphone amp or line out amp on the front panel. Tried it both ways._

 

Thanks for confirming...

 There are a ton of review sites that say it doesn't work.

 I wonder if it didn't work with older drivers or something...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *matty429* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can't find a definitive answer:

 Does the amp work through the front panel?

 Some say it does, others say it does not.._

 

Yes it does.


----------



## sokolov91

I am getting a slight hiss/whine (not really sure exactly how to describe it) from my STX RCA out at any volume level. It is very quiet and only in the left channel when my external amp is at 0 or low volume, around 12 o clock it seems to disappear a bit, past that the hiss or whatever seems to cross from the left into the right a bit, but does not leave the left.

 I have already found that it is not the fault of the external amp (LD MK5), as it works fine with other sources. 

 I have many fans attached to the same power cable as the powering my card, but I never noticed this wich the headphone output.

 The line out definitely sounds much better, even considering the hiss, as music tends to drown it out, and it is not constant. It comes and goes, and is louder or quieter. Seems to fluctuate quite a bit. It seems to get more hiss when my graphics card is under load (Ati HD4890)...

 I will try making the soundcard the only thing hooked up on this line. I figured this might help from my understanding of AC, but the output of the powersupply is dc so I don't know...

 I am guessing I might just be beacuse my computer was built as a gaming machine... Would overclocking have affected this at all? My CPU e8400 is running at 4.1 stable and has been for the past 7 months... the thing never crashes, even whilst running Crysis in DX 10 at max or even becomes unstable. I have 10 fans in my EATX case Coolermaster HAF 932.

 Does anyone have any suggestions?

 Thanks


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am getting a slight hiss/whine (not really sure exactly how to describe it) from my STX RCA out at any volume level. It is very quiet and only in the left channel when my external amp is at 0 or low volume, around 12 o clock it seems to disappear a bit, past that the hiss or whatever seems to cross from the left into the right a bit, but does not leave the left.

 I have already found that it is not the fault of the external amp (LD MK5), as it works fine with other sources. 

 I have many fans attached to the same power cable as the powering my card, but I never noticed this wich the headphone output.

 The line out definitely sounds much better, even considering the hiss, as music tends to drown it out, and it is not constant. It comes and goes, and is louder or quieter. Seems to fluctuate quite a bit. It seems to get more hiss when my graphics card is under load (Ati HD4890)...

 I will try making the soundcard the only thing hooked up on this line. I figured this might help from my understanding of AC, but the output of the powersupply is dc so I don't know...

 I am guessing I might just be beacuse my computer was built as a gaming machine... Would overclocking have affected this at all? My CPU e8400 is running at 4.1 stable and has been for the past 7 months... the thing never crashes, even whilst running Crysis in DX 10 at max or even becomes unstable. I have 10 fans in my EATX case Coolermaster HAF 932.

 Does anyone have any suggestions?

 Thanks_

 

Do you have any available slots further away from the video card. You can use the card in any PCI express slot including PCI express X16. That may help. I have mine in the bottom PCI express slot which is a X16 but electrically X8 I believe. The card will only use the first lane though as it is only X1 so it doesn't matter how many lanes are available but any slot from X1-X16 will work & the further away from video card the better. Mine is extremely quiet. 118.5db dynamic range actual measured.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Do you have any available slots further away from the video card. You can use the card in any PCI express slot including PCI express X16. That may help. I have mine in the bottom PCI express slot which is a X16 but electrically X8 I believe. The card will only use the first lane though as it is only X1 so it doesn't matter how many lanes are available but any slot from X1-X16 will work & the further away from video card the better. Mine is extremely quiet. 118.5db dynamic range actual measured._

 

I do and will definitly try that out. I feel a bit embarrassed I didn't think of that myself haha. I have crossfire support so the second pcie is quite far away from the other so that should work.

 I noticed that while folding@home is running, which maxes out my GPU an dCPU noise is at an all-time high. The second I close the program, it stops about 85%.

 Thanks for the advice! I will post back saying if it worked or not later tonight.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I do and will definitly try that out. I feel a bit embarrassed I didn't think of that myself haha. I have crossfire support so the second pcie is quite far away from the other so that should work.

 I noticed that while folding@home is running, which maxes out my GPU an dCPU noise is at an all-time high. The second I close the program, it stops about 85%.

 Thanks for the advice! I will post back saying if it worked or not later tonight._

 

kool


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_kool_

 

Nope. It is in my second 16x pci slot and it is worse. Not much, but it is worse. I listened while the pc was starting up. Im pretty sure I heard some bios things, and the CD drive starting... The CD is on the same cable as the sound card. I think I might have to rewire my entire pc... which I am really not looking forward to do. The thing is a beast..

 I never heard any of this with the headphone out, but the external amp sound much better as far as I am concerned...

 what is this loopback cable people are talking about? Looks like I have lots of reading in this thread to do.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_
 what is this loopback cable people are talking about? Looks like I have lots of reading in this thread to do._

 

Loopback cable is only used for testing, It goes from the line out to the line in to test the analog sections.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Loopback cable is only used for testing, It goes from the line out to the line in to test the analog sections._

 

Oh ok, thanks. 

 My PSU is a nice antec one. It is semi modular. it has 4 modular sections, and then all the regular stuff coming out of a bundle of cables. 2 for pci, and two for 4 x 4 pin molex. Do you think rewiring everything, so the STX is basically gets a dedicated line to the psu would help/fix the problem?

 I think that is the key, but I would like some input before I spent an hour or two rewiring my pc .

 I am also wondering why I do not hear this with the headphone out, and I do with the RCA... the RCA is supposed to have a higher SNR...


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Oh ok, thanks. 

 My PSU is a nice antec one. It is semi modular. it has 4 modular sections, and then all the regular stuff coming out of a bundle of cables. 2 for pci, and two for 4 x 4 pin molex. Do you think rewiring everything, so the STX is basically gets a dedicated line to the psu would help/fix the problem?

 I think that is the key, but I would like some input before I spent an hour or two rewiring my pc .

 I am also wondering why I do not hear this with the headphone out, and I do with the RCA... the RCA is supposed to have a higher SNR..._

 

yes that may help some& is worth a try.

 You could try redirecting your line out cable away from any power supply or power supply cable, especially from anything that uses a switch mode power supply like the computer & some wallwarts are switch mode as well. If the wall wart feels light its likely switch mode design. 

 The lowest gain on the headphone amp is 6db lower gain than the RCA jacks output & therefore may not amplify the noise as much. It's feedback is also current mode instead of voltage mode & therefore may be less sensitive to external noise. 

 Believe it or not I found most noise picked up by opamps are picked up at the output & amplified by the negative feedback loop especially when feeding a high impedance load such as an external amplifier. & that is why it is very important to keep it away from any noise sources as noise can be amplified at either or even both ends of the cable. 

 On opamps most of the gain of the input is cancelled by the negative feedback. The gain without negative feedback on these often exceeds 100db. The negative feed back has to be able to cancel all of this in a unity gain amp & as such is very high gain in & of itself. If noise is picked up at its output & is also not present at the +input it gets amplified just as much if not more than if the noise is injected at the +input as at the +input most of it is cancelled by the negative feedback loop. There is no such cancellation if injected at the output as the signal is not also present at the +input as well. The only cancellation occures at its own output which prevents it from blowing your speakers to smitherenes. In one situation I had there was an output network for driving headphones that imcluded an inductor. It sounded fine if feeding the relative low impedance of the headphones but when I tried feeding my biamped speakers at the time it picked up a noise caused by a switch mode dimmer switch & sent it through the back side of the opamp at the headphone amp output & really did a number on the speakers as far as noise is concerned. Even unpluging the cable from the headphone output & leave it unterminated with the amps in the speakers turned on was quieter. Turning off the SACD player with the input wire connected from the amps in the speakers resulted in silence as well. I removed the output network from the headphone amp & that was the end of the problem. The fact that it was quieter with the input of the amps unterminated & when the headphone amp was turned off & connected proves that the noise was amplified by the negative feedback in combination with the output network of the headphone amp.

 Also the + input on most amps have a small value capacitor to ground protecting the amp from RF interferance at the + input. No such protection exists for the negative feedback loop. Capacitors that go around the first resistor of the negative feedback loop in order to roll off the high frqencies just above the audio band in the negative feedback loop actually provide a means of passing RF into the amps backside & since the amps become nonlinear at some point above the audio band RF can in fact get amplified & the results there of dumped back into the audio band. You may get away with this on a voltage feed back amp & still sound ok unless there is nearby strong RF but you would not get away with this at all on a current feedback amp as they will oscillate on thier own if you do however if you setup a current feedbak amp correctly with a very short path & just a resistor on the negative feedback loop the current feedback type amps have better linearity at RF freqencies & as a result can be less effected by RF interferance.


----------



## sokolov91

Ok well I think I am in a pickle. I have rewired the computer, so the cards are on dedicated wires, I have moved the card as far away as possible from the GPU, and I have cleared up cables in the back, and used the shortest interconnects I have. Nothing changed. It's not even quieter. 

 I did some research and I think my graphics card has what is referred to as "coil whine" which gets worse underload...Apparently the 4890 either had it, or didn't. So I am stuck trying to get a replacement for my graphics card, or to remove it every time I wish to listen to music.

 I am pretty dissapointed because the RCA + amp sounds so much better than the built in amp. Oh well haha I guess it will be an excuse to upgrade to a 5870 or something next summer...

 Thank you very much for your help and detailed response germanium. Much appreciated.


----------



## Shizdan

I have mine fairly close to the the GPU (4870x2) and I have not heard any noise or whining...


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have mine fairly close to the the GPU (4870x2) and I have not heard any noise or whining..._

 

It was just a suggestion. But I know for a fact it is the GPU that is making the noise as the noise gets worse under load like a game or folding at home. while playing a game its almost unbearable, and its a piss off when the card is idle. Apparently coil whine is an issue some of the cards on the 4890 series had.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It was just a suggestion. But I know for a fact it is the GPU that is making the noise as the noise gets worse under load like a game or folding at home. while playing a game its almost unbearable, and its a piss off when the card is idle. Apparently coil whine is an issue some of the cards on the 4890 series had._

 

That was probably the issue with the 8800gt card I had before. Not nearly as bad though as you seem to be having though. The GTX260 is significantly quieter for the same power draw


----------



## ROBSCIX

My cards sit right beside my GTX260 and they are dead quiet.
 The problem may be the card adding noise to the bus not so much the card picking nolise up through induction. It is hard to say with such issues though.
 You might get a new card and haev the exact same issue.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Mine is between two gtx260's without the emi shield on and no noise issues at all. Will place back the shield after settled with a particular opamp setup though.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok well I think I am in a pickle. I have rewired the computer, so the cards are on dedicated wires, I have moved the card as far away as possible from the GPU, and I have cleared up cables in the back, and used the shortest interconnects I have. Nothing changed. It's not even quieter. 

 I did some research and I think my graphics card has what is referred to as "coil whine" which gets worse underload...Apparently the 4890 either had it, or didn't. So I am stuck trying to get a replacement for my graphics card, or to remove it every time I wish to listen to music.

 I am pretty dissapointed because the RCA + amp sounds so much better than the built in amp. Oh well haha I guess it will be an excuse to upgrade to a 5870 or something next summer...

 Thank you very much for your help and detailed response germanium. Much appreciated._

 

Dunno if your psu can cause this problem, but for troubleshooting try to get (borrow) another psu and see if the problem still exist.


----------



## corentin

Hey guys.

 News on the STX front, as I couldn't get rid of the cracking sounds with videos even with the freshly released drivers - I sold the board and am in the process of getting a maier audio Symphony 2 DAC/preamplifier/headphone amplifier. Not considering the price difference, will the improvement over the STX be substantial?


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_My cards sit right beside my GTX260 and they are dead quiet.
 The problem may be the card adding noise to the bus not so much the card picking nolise up through induction. It is hard to say with such issues though.
 You might get a new card and haev the exact same issue._

 

Yeah you are right. I am hoping a replacement will fix it but I realize it may not. I contacted XFX and they said the same thing, but a replacement should at least me quieter. I just feel it is a lame reason to ask for a replacement. Card has worked find and is damned fast... just... refuses to let my use the RCA out of my STX.

 Apparently this is a particular issue with the 4890 series. The cards seem to simply have it or not.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isleofgeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Dunno if your psu can cause this problem, but for troubleshooting try to get (borrow) another psu and see if the problem still exist._

 

I will try that when I get some time, and you are not the first to wonder if it is the psu... I should hope not though as this is my PSU - Antec Truepower New 750W Power Supply ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus SLI Ready Blue so its not premium, but not exactly low end either. Thanks for the suggestion though.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Really strange and such issue can be frustrating with soundcards.
 Is it possible to test your soudncard on another system just to verify the cards doesn't need an RMA.
 You muted all the inputs on the card etc? -Actually, if that was the issue you would have similar issue on the can out.
 the PSU might be the issue just giving you dirty power but the STX has filtering on the Molex input and only logic is taken from the board. 
 Can you test with both the sheilding on and off....just to see if the issue is affected at all?


----------



## sokolov91

If the gtx260 are really that quiet I may try and get one of those even if it means downgrading a bit. :/ or maybe those 5870 cards are quieter . Its just a damned shame because I was finally wowed by my system just changing components around ahah then in a quiet passage it get ASDFHASDKFasdlkj bzzzzz poasdi bzzzz and I'm like... AH my graphics card is singing a long, how cute.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really strange and such issue can be frustrating with soundcards.
 Is it possible to test your soudncard on another system just to verify the cards doesn't need an RMA.
 You muted all the inputs on the card etc?_

 

I guess it could be the card too. I'm assuming the lone culprit is my 4890 because the noise fluctuates with the load of the card. I will try it in my brothers i5 set up later when I get a chance and report back. I guess it is simpler if it is the card itself. 

 Is anyone else using windows 7 64?


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Really strange and such issue can be frustrating with soundcards.
 Is it possible to test your soudncard on another system just to verify the cards doesn't need an RMA.
 You muted all the inputs on the card etc?_

 

I didn't mute all the inputs as I use the microphone in for gaming...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I didn't mute all the inputs as I use the microphone in for gaming..._

 

OK, when you use the mic and headphones you have no noise?
 can you try and just mut the mic and see if you still have noise from the
 line-outs and disable the mic boost also. This is just for a test.


----------



## drewfus420

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is anyone else using windows 7 64?_

 

I have been running win 7 (RC) 64 with my Xonar since May, and with an OEM version of 7/64 since last month with no problems.
 One time I got some hum/noise after moving my system to another room and some ferite chokes (1 on power cable to Xonar, and 2 on the RCA outs) solved it, so maybe try that route.
 Another time after adding a HD to the system it got a little noisy, and I solved it by moving the Xonar 1 slot further away from my video card, which simply gave me a better wire routing for the 4 pin molex for the Xonar , keeping it from physicaly contacting the video card.
 I run my STX w/ the shield removed since I run HDAMS too.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I guess it could be the card too. I'm assuming the lone culprit is my 4890 because the noise fluctuates with the load of the card. I will try it in my brothers i5 set up later when I get a chance and report back. I guess it is simpler if it is the card itself. 

 Is anyone else using windows 7 64?_

 

windows seven pro 64 bit here with gtx260 & quiet


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_OK, when you use the mic and headphones you have no noise?
 can you try and just mut the mic and see if you still have noise from the
 line-outs and disable the mic boost also. This is just for a test._

 

Yeah when using the headphone out I was able to use the microphone at the same time and have no noise. 

 How should I mute them? Would disabling be better?

 I took of mic boost and that did nothing.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in a quiet passage it get ASDFHASDKFasdlkj bzzzzz poasdi bzzzz and I'm like... AH my graphics card is singing a long, how cute._

 

is the wall plug your PC is connected to properly grounded? it sounds like a groundloop as the PC components flush to the PC case, and w/o a proper ground wired in the wall plug...you'll be SOL.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the wall plug your PC is connected to properly grounded? it sounds like a groundloop as the PC components flush to the PC case, and w/o a proper ground wired in the wall plug...you'll be SOL._

 

I don't know... I will have to ask my dad HAHA. Maybe its time to get him to install that new "audiophile" cryo'ed outlet I have been asking him to install for a year.


----------



## applegd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I will try that when I get some time, and you are not the first to wonder if it is the psu... I should hope not though as this is my PSU - Antec Truepower New 750W Power Supply ATX12V V2.3 Active PFC 80 Plus SLI Ready Blue so its not premium, but not exactly low end either. Thanks for the suggestion though._

 

Antec Truepower New 750W Power Supply has the same Ripple &
 Noise spec (120mV for 12V rail) as my Zalman ZM850 PSU. I have no noise problem like yours when my STX seating in the slot which is about 4 cm away on top of the PSU.


----------



## germanium

I have an Antec basic 550 watt power supply here & no problems. This is the cheapest I could find in a modular design. Quite happy with it actually.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah when using the headphone out I was able to use the microphone at the same time and have no noise. 

 How should I mute them? Would disabling be better?

 I took of mic boost and that did nothing._

 

I am starting to think you might need to RMA the card.
 The way these cards are built, the output for the headphone and the RCA share the exact same circuit right up until the buffer and outputs. 
 Perhaps you have a defective buffer circuit...

 If it was your power causing the trouble, you would have noise in the headphone output also.
 You need to test the card in another system. If the issue is still there, the card needs to be replaced.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am starting to think you might need to RMA the card.
 The way these cards are built, the output for the headphone and the RCA share the exact same circuit right up until the buffer and outputs. 
 Perhaps you have a defective buffer circuit...

 If it was your power causing the trouble, you would have noise in the headphone output also.
 You need to test the card in another system. If the issue is still there, the card needs to be replaced._

 

It could be very well the STX itself like you are suggesting. However, like leeperry mentioned, I am unsure if my receptacles are grounded properly (old house). I have a powerbar in my room and it has a light for "protection" and for "grounded" and well the grounded light isn't on aha. Whether or not that is the actual issue I am unsure.

 I did use my PC in the basement with the RCA out of the STX, again unsure if it is grounded or not (yes I am very helpful ), going to a mccormack ALD-1 pre amp and a MUSE 100 amp and a pair of Heliade ES speakers with all upgraded AC (blacksand) and interconnects (MAC audio) attached to a PSaudio Powercenter quintet and I never had any issue with noise. This doesn't mean it isn't there, but I certainly didn't notice it during hours of critical listening... The ALD-1 is pretty high gain too and my speakers are very efficient 96db.

 The noise gets worse with lower impedance cans. It is horrible out of my MDRXB700 (24 ohm i think), and more noticable with my 325i (32 ohm). My HD 600 (300 ohm) have the least issues with it, but it is still there.

 At low volumes in the MDRXB700 it is in the left channel, same for the 325i, and in the Ultrasone and Senns it starts in the right... as I increase the volume it shifts to the center.

 I am going to install a cryo'ed hubble outlet in my room this weekend hopefully (YIPPIE!) and the that line will be grounded. I will also check this evening with my extremely sophisticated tools to see if the basement is grounded and report back.

 Thanks again to everyone for the comments and help!


----------



## Ra97oR

I have a Antec Signature 650W (Max 18mV ripple on 12V rail) and have no hisses whatsoever. As other said, RMA the card. 

 Now using the LME49720HA upgraded from LME49720NA, little difference mainly the microdetail and treble is a bit better


----------



## Shizdan

Well I have on the way
 -LME49720HA x5
 -LME49720NA x5
 -LME49710HA x5

 Then shipping to ROBSCIX for help with soldering to adapters.


----------



## Ra97oR

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I have on the way
 -LME49720HA x5
 -LME49720NA x5
 -LME49710HA x5

 Then shipping to ROBSCIX for help with soldering to adapters._

 

Nice, the LME497X0 s are definitely a big improvement from stock IMO. Much more detailed.


----------



## Ra97oR

Now had more head time with the LME49720HA, the difference is clearly there.

 What difference: well everything is just (little bit) better: from bass impact to microdetails to treble and soundstage.

 The difference is tiny compare to when I swapped my stock OpAmp to LME49720NA, but the LME49720HA is like LME49720NA but just better.

 If its better, it is better even if its just a little bit.


----------



## ssbaudi

Hey guys, just read through this mammoth thread from start to finish! Definitely drowned in a sea of opinions but it turned out to be really helpful. I have the same set up as Bojamijams, with the STX going out into the Audioengine A5's, then from the A5's to a Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer. 

 My question is, will swapping Op-Amps benefit me since most of my listening comes from listening to speakers with the subwoofer? With all the reading I did, I didnt notice anyone with a sub. I just ordered a handful of samples of the LME49720HA's and the OPA2137P's... just cause :]


----------



## Shahrose

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssbaudi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, just read through this mammoth thread from start to finish! Definitely drowned in a sea of opinions but it turned out to be really helpful. I have the same set up as Bojamijams, with the STX going out into the Audioengine A5's, then from the A5's to a Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer. 

 My question is, will swapping Op-Amps benefit me since most of my listening comes from listening to speakers with the subwoofer? With all the reading I did, I didnt notice anyone with a sub. I just ordered a handful of samples of the LME49720HA's and the OPA2137P's... just cause :]_

 

I use the A5's with a Polk Audio PSW111 sub. For several months, my main source was the STX until recently when I switched to the y2 DAC. 
 Anyways, long story short, switching the default opamps to 3xLME49720NA produced a noticeable improvement in sound, especially smoothness of the treble, tightness of the bass and soundstage.


----------



## ssbaudi

is the 3xLME49720 combo better than the 1x LME49710HA, 2x OPA2137P combo?


----------



## dex85

nobody can give you a definite answer to that question. it's about your preference and the synergy with rest of your system.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssbaudi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the 3xLME49720 combo better than the 1x LME49710HA, 2x OPA2137P combo?_

 

Usually three of the same opamps type is frowned upon is this type of configuration. The I/V change the soudn the most and the buffer does just that. Using the same opamps in both positions can compound the negative aspects of the opamp. Sometimes you can use this situation to your advantage though.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ssbaudi* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_is the 3xLME49720 combo better than the 1x LME49710HA, 2x OPA2137P combo?_

 

In my setup I can say the OPA2137P is much better than the LME49720NA in the I/V slots. I noticed tighter and more extended bass and midrange came forward.

 Right now I have the LME49720NA in the buffer slot.

 This is using RCA out to Decware CSP2 to Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm.


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm really impressed with the OPA2137P in the I/V slot.. I think it does a great job at eliminating the aggressiveness/brightness of the STX.. now, if your headphones/speakers are already very dark / bassy then you might not want the OPA 2137P but.. if they're neutral or you think your whole system is a little on the bright side, I definetly recommend OPA 2137P in the I/V


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really impressed with the OPA2137P in the I/V slot.. I think it does a great job at eliminating the aggressiveness/brightness of the STX.. now, if your headphones/speakers are already very dark / bassy then you might not want the OPA 2137P but.. if they're neutral or you think your whole system is a little on the bright side, I definetly recommend OPA 2137P in the I/V_

 


 I was actually messing with a dual 137 module. Sounds nice but I was testing on another source. Notice your keeping that LME49710HA installed.
 I guess the two are a great mix for your system?


----------



## gurubhai

^^Hi, Rob, waiting for your impressions on 137/2137 on STX.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was actually messing with a dual 137 module. Sounds nice but I was testing on another source. Notice your keeping that LME49710HA installed.
 I guess the two are a great mix for your system?_

 

Yeah I love this mix.. mids stay strong despite the better bass.. and usually you have to give up one for the other


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, which is why the 3 opamp configuration can be great if you consider how one position affects the other.


----------



## Shizdan

Quick question. Why are there 2 I/V sockets?


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is a differential current to voltage converter section.
 there is one dual channel opamp for each channel, one opamp for the left channel and one for the right.
 Just a basic explanation.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I love this mix.. mids stay strong despite the better bass.. and usually you have to give up one for the other_

 

HOW ARE THE HIGHS??


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm noticing no difference in the highs.. which is great


----------



## wisie

I find myself using a much lower volume setting for when I use headphones then bump it back up when I change to speakers. Is it possible for the Essence to remember these volumes for when I switch back and forward in headphone and speaker modes?


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm really impressed with the OPA2137P in the I/V slot.. I think it does a great job at eliminating the aggressiveness/brightness of the STX.. now, if your headphones/speakers are already very dark / bassy then you might not want the OPA 2137P but.. if they're neutral or you think your whole system is a little on the bright side, I definetly recommend OPA 2137P in the I/V_

 

I agree. I've gone through quite a few tracks now and this the OPA2137P provides a very high SQ.

 I've been hearing that if you like the OPA2137P you should love the THS4032? anyone try these in the I/V slots?


----------



## jalyst

Is there an equivalent tweaking thread for the ST?
 I've searched but can't see, I know about this one.

 Thanks!


----------



## cladisch

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *RobLikesBrunch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm on a Linux machine, and the card just sounds warmer and fuller to me than when I was on Windows. In Windows it almost seems flatter and less melodic.

 Now I'm afraid that this is simply my disillusion and unadulterated bias...so has anyone else listened to the card on both operating systems?_

 

I don't have an STX, but I can confirm that there are slight differences between the Windows and Linux drivers.
 The Linux driver doesn't do any effects processing (so it is equivalent to the Windows driver's HiFi mode), and it powers down all unused parts of the chips. I don't think that the latter makes any audible difference.
 It's possible that seeing the cute penguin logo gives you warm, fuzzy feelings, which enhances blood circulation, which makes your hearing work better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 With the upcoming kernel 2.6.33 or with version 1.0.22 of the alsa-driver package, the driver also has controls for the oversampling rate and the rollof behaviour of the DAC filter (and working support for the ST).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jalyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is there an equivalent tweaking thread for the ST?
 I've searched but can't see, I know about this one.

 Thanks!_

 

Bascially any mod that can be done to the STX can be done to the ST as they share many similarities.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wisie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find myself using a much lower volume setting for when I use headphones then bump it back up when I change to speakers. Is it possible for the Essence to remember these volumes for when I switch back and forward in headphone and speaker modes?_

 

Is the gain for your headphones set properly?


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cladisch* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't have an STX, but I can confirm that there are slight differences between the Windows and Linux drivers.
 The Linux driver doesn't do any effects processing (so it is equivalent to the Windows driver's HiFi mode), and it powers down all unused parts of the chips. I don't think that the latter makes any audible difference.
 It's possible that seeing the cute penguin logo gives you warm, fuzzy feelings, which enhances blood circulation, which makes your hearing work better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 With the upcoming kernel 2.6.33 or with version 1.0.22 of the alsa-driver package, the driver also has controls for the oversampling rate and the rollof behaviour of the DAC filter (and working support for the ST)._

 

Cladisch, thanks for chiming in!
 I was talking to you a few months back about dvr dev for the ST/X

 I have got my ST (+ H6) now so I'm looking forward to testing a few things both on Linux and windows & giving you some feedback!

 take-care,
 Jed


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Bascially any mod that can be done to the STX can be done to the ST as they share many similarities._

 

Okay thanks for clarifying Rob, 
 I will use this thread as a reference point then.


----------



## Shizdan

Well I got them into today. (LME4970NA)

Link

 Now when I installed them to my Xonar Essence STX, I had the pins a tiny bit closer. Wasn't too sure if I should do that but they work fine. Also, I had to push them in with some force. Anyways my thoughts

 -Bass is more pronounced but not in the sloppy way. It is more punchier.
 -Treble is higher yet not harsh to make your ears bleed.
 -Mids don't seem to have changed.
 -Soundstage seems to have been widened massivly. Seems like I can point to where the instruments are now.

 It seems like the guitar parts of my music have been brought to the front. Listening to The Used the guitar just seems more pronounced.

 Apparently bending the pins inward is common as stated here


----------



## ROBSCIX

DIP8 opamps have the pins on angles...they look like /-\ making them almost impossible to insert into a socket easily.
 I put them on the table on their side under my pointer finger and slightly roll them-very easily, this pushes the pins inwards. Flip and do the other side, until they look like |-|
 I would have mentioned it to you but it never occured to me to bring it up.


----------



## Shizdan

I just pushed the pins slightly together and that worked lol.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, whatever works. Now you know so you can do it next time before you install new DIP8 opamps.


----------



## Shizdan

Ever since I installed the LME4970NA's it seems like my volume has dropped noticeably!


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LME49720 [..]
 It seems like the guitar parts of my music have been brought to the front. Listening to The Used the guitar just seems more pronounced._

 

yes, 49720 believes it's so smart to bring everything to the front.

 it will impress you for the next days/weeks, but you'll get bored of it..like everyone does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if everyone's at the front, who does the background stuff anymore? huh?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ever since I installed the LME4970NA's it seems like my volume has dropped noticeably!_

 

With this plug and play method you have to take the good with the bad. Without being able to tune the circuit to the individual opamp some will offer lower signal levels.


----------



## dex85

anyone tried 2x LME49720HA + JRC2114D? i did today and was pleasantly surprised with JRC2114D at buffer. it makes much more sense imo at buffer than placing it in the I/V, where it can sound muddy. in the buffer it suppresses the 720HA's metallic taste of strings and plastic sounding trumpets and add some heft to the sound. overall very balanced and transparent sound with great PRAT. bass hit a sweet spot for me between tightness and volume and is not sticking out, which i like. i can listen for hours without fatigue (using the external amp, haven't tried the speakers yet). it's also a little bit more laid-back than my previous setup - 2x LT1057 + LME49720HA. 

 after all i ditched the LT1057. while it induces a warmness and pleasure to the music, it's also utterly slow. notes overhang for too long, which results in blurry, focus-lacking sound and not that good separation (both at I/V and buffer). it's very obvious especially with faster headphones/speakers.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anyone tried 2x LME49720HA + JRC2114D? i did today and was pleasantly surprised with JRC2114D at buffer. it makes much more sense imo at buffer than placing it in the I/V, where it can sound muddy. in the buffer it suppresses the 720HA's metallic taste of strings and plastic sounding trumpets and add some heft to the sound. overall very balanced and transparent sound with great PRAT. bass hit a sweet spot for me between tightness and volume and is not sticking out, which i like. i can listen for hours without fatigue (using the external amp, haven't tried the speakers yet). it's also a little bit more laid-back than my previous setup - 2x LT1057 + LME49720HA. 

 after all i ditched the LT1057. while it induces a warmness and pleasure to the music, it's also utterly slow. notes overhang for too long, which results in blurry, focus-lacking sound and not that good separation (both at I/V and buffer). it's very obvious especially with faster headphones/speakers._

 

The buffer can help change the response of the I/V somewhat. Such as using a warm opamp in the buffer to roll off over extended high range in the I/V.
 If you found the LME to be too bright then the 2114D would be a good buffer for them.

 The three opamp configuration can be very handy if you consider the i/V and buffer as mentioned above. I wrote a post about this idea awhile back, maybe it was in the opamp thread. This definately helps to get the response your looking for.


----------



## XpanD

Hi all! Big thread you guys got going here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Anyways, after quite a long while of thinking about what sound card to get, I've decided to get myself an STX, to replace my seemingly half-broken ALC888 (balance issues, distorted sound on one channel which needs a lot of bass to "jumpstart" it). It should arrive in a few days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've read through this ENTIRE thread, in search of an answer as to what opamps to get. I've heard the standard combination is rather harsh in its highs, which is something I really don't like. I like well-pronounced, hard-hitting lows and slightly bassy, well-pronounced mids. I'm rather sensitive to highs, so I prefer to steer clear from anything that can add to them that much on my current setup. 

 After reading the thread, I've set my sights on two opamps: the OPA2137PA and the OPA2228PA. There may be others, but these always jumped out, especially the 2137. I plan on leaving the stock buffer chip there, as I feel it'll add a bit of balance to such a bass-filled sound, and I cannot get a 49720 because I'd have to pay loads more due to international shipping.

 I listen mostly to trance and hardtrance, with the occasional bit of hardstyle. All of this is played on 4 vintage Philips 22AH489 speakers, powered by a Denon PMA-520A amplifier. 

 These speakers are rather balanced, but can deliver very tight bass in my experience, with the right song playing. However, this setup doesn't go very low, and soundstage isn't exactly marvelous either. The highs are, to my ears, pretty good though they could use a bit more clarity. The mids sound decent enough right now, though as said earlier I wouldn't mind hearing them a bit more as well.

 So my question to you guys, after all of this... Which opamps would you recommend? Anything other than what I've mentioned here? Or will one of these two be very likely to fit my style and setup already? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Bojamijams

I'd get the 2137P not the PA.


----------



## XpanD

And why would that be? I thought the P version wasn't available at the Dutch Farnell shop, going by what I saw before, but I can't check at the moment since, ironically, the site just went down for maintenance.


 EDIT: Site came back, and I found this under the P version's listing:
_Product niet op voorraad.
 Bestel nu voor levering volgens levertijd (zie beschikbaarheid).
 (Lead Time 33 days)_

 Translated to English, that means the product is not available and I guess will take at least 33 days to arrive. Yay. So what's the difference between these versions? I don't feel like waiting 33 days, considering I'm getting my sound card a lot sooner.


----------



## dex85

it's never a bad idea to order more op-amps and test with your own ears and system. 2137 is very popular around here, you can get 49720*H*A for free from national. i did too, although i'm not very proud of that. it was my first and last op-amp that i "stole". and welcome to the camp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The three opamp configuration can be very handy if you consider the i/V and buffer as mentioned above. I wrote a post about this idea awhile back, maybe it was in the opamp thread. This definately helps to get the response your looking for._

 

yes, i remember that post. it's certainly easier now to alter the sound to my liking than with just swapping the I/V.


----------



## XpanD

I'm not too keen on getting free samples like this, or having to mod something together to get an opamp to fit the card. I don't think I'm that handy, and I don't want to risk my new shiny card, so...

 As for the 2137, it seems to be a good solution. Still want to know what the difference between the P and PA versions is, though. Also, what's the difference between the 2137 and 2228, sound-wise?

 Thanks!


----------



## dex85

i don't know what's the difference between P and PA. maybe some slight difference in specifications, like operational temperature or so. check the specifications.


----------



## isleofgeorge

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XpanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi all! Big thread you guys got going here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyways, after quite a long while of thinking about what sound card to get, I've decided to get myself an STX, to replace my seemingly half-broken ALC888 (balance issues, distorted sound on one channel which needs a lot of bass to "jumpstart" it). It should arrive in a few days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've read through this ENTIRE thread, in search of an answer as to what opamps to get. I've heard the standard combination is rather harsh in its highs, which is something I really don't like. I like well-pronounced, hard-hitting lows and slightly bassy, well-pronounced mids. I'm rather sensitive to highs, so I prefer to steer clear from anything that can add to them that much on my current setup. 

 After reading the thread, I've set my sights on two opamps: the OPA2137PA and the OPA2228PA. There may be others, but these always jumped out, especially the 2137. I plan on leaving the stock buffer chip there, as I feel it'll add a bit of balance to such a bass-filled sound, and I cannot get a 49720 because I'd have to pay loads more due to international shipping.

 I listen mostly to trance and hardtrance, with the occasional bit of hardstyle. All of this is played on 4 vintage Philips 22AH489 speakers, powered by a Denon PMA-520A amplifier. 

 These speakers are rather balanced, but can deliver very tight bass in my experience, with the right song playing. However, this setup doesn't go very low, and soundstage isn't exactly marvelous either. The highs are, to my ears, pretty good though they could use a bit more clarity. The mids sound decent enough right now, though as said earlier I wouldn't mind hearing them a bit more as well.

 So my question to you guys, after all of this... Which opamps would you recommend? Anything other than what I've mentioned here? Or will one of these two be very likely to fit my style and setup already? Thanks in advance! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 


 I mainly listen to psytrance and can recommend 1x lm6172im + 2x opa2137p
 I've tried many and very happy with this combo sofar.
 Tight bass and a bit punchy too, very detailed mids and clear rich highs (not harsh at all). Wide soundstage.


----------



## gurubhai

The difference in P & PA version is different input offset voltage (lower with P version) only, rest of the specs are same.
 We recommend the 2137P because that's the one that we have tried & all are impressions are based on that.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I would suggest you test the card with your setup first and let it burn-in then decide what you want to change.


----------



## XpanD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *isleofgeorge* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I mainly listen to psytrance and can recommend 1x lm6172im + 2x opa2137p
 I've tried many and very happy with this combo sofar.
 Tight bass and a bit punchy too, very detailed mids and clear rich highs (not harsh at all). Wide soundstage._

 

Sounds really nice to me... However, I heard something about high-gain or high-bandwidth chips causing problems in the STX's circuit? Here's what I found on Farnell regarding the lm6172in (DIP8 version):
*Bandwidth:100MHz*
*Gain Bandwidth:160MHz*
 I have no idea how to interpret these specs properly, but I'd want to be sure. If this will be perfectly stable though, I'll make sure to test it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The difference in P & PA version is different input offset voltage (lower with P version) only, rest of the specs are same.
 We recommend the 2137P because that's the one that we have tried & all are impressions are based on that._

 

Would it matter that much if I were to get the PA, though? Can't really be arsed to wait 32 days. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I would suggest you test the card with your setup first and let it burn-in then decide what you want to change._

 

Will do ofcourse, but from what I heard from the JRCs, I'm probably not gonna like them. Even if I do like them though, a bit of tweaking for a possibly better sound is not something I would want to miss out on, though I am not planning on overdoing it either.


 By the way, I'll be sure to try and share my experiences with the stock and custom setups, once I get them all installed and tested. Thanks for all the help so far!


----------



## dex85

after some more listening today with my current setup, JRC2114D has some veil in buffer too. too bad because i was really liking the PRAT this combo has.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XpanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Sounds really nice to me... However, I heard something about high-gain or high-bandwidth chips causing problems in the STX's circuit? Here's what I found on Farnell regarding the lm6172in (DIP8 version):
*Bandwidth:100MHz*
*Gain Bandwidth:160MHz*_

 

Wihtout getting too technical, you can get into trouble with very fast opamps. Some opamps people try are not specifically meant for audio so they can cause issues for an audio circuit. 
 What happens is the opamp will start oscillating, you may be able to hear it or maybe not depends how it is malfunctioning. Oscillating opamps will pull way too much current and can cause other issues also.

 Most of the common audio opamps have been tested already in the STX/ST and have been mentioned in the various threads.


----------



## XpanD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Wihtout getting too technical, you can get into trouble with very fast opamps. Some opamps people try are not specifically meant for audio so they can cause issues for an audio circuit. 
 What happens is the opamp will start oscillating, you may be able to hear it or maybe not depends how it is malfunctioning. Oscillating opamps will pull way too much current and can cause other issues also.

 Most of the common audio opamps have been tested already in the STX/ST and have been mentioned in the various threads._

 

So what'd be a save "speed" here, and would the LM6172IN work?


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I agree. I've gone through quite a few tracks now and this the OPA2137P provides a very high SQ.

 I've been hearing that if you like the OPA2137P you should love the THS4032? anyone try these in the I/V slots?_

 

bump, any input on the THS4032?


----------



## Shizdan

Why are people who use the headphone out saying that the buffer Op amp changes the sound? I was under the impression that the Buffer Op Amp only changed the RCA's? Or are they using an external amp connected to the Essence STX through RCA?


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are people who use the headphone out saying that the buffer Op amp changes the sound? I was under the impression that the Buffer Op Amp only changed the RCA's? Or are they using an external amp connected to the Essence STX through RCA?_

 

Buffer amps feed the headphone amp as well as the buffer, just not both at the same time.


----------



## gurubhai

^^ Is that correct ?


----------



## Shizdan

I just threw in 3x LME49720NA. Holy crap the bass is insane!


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^ Is that correct ?_

 

OOPS Mistake meant to say I/V amps feed both buffer amps & headphone amp. Just not at the same time. Though it seems pretty obvious that there was a mistake in my wording as why would a buffer amp feed a buffer amp? It doesn't, I/V amps feed the buffer. Guess I need to better proof read my stuff. Usually I do better than that blunder though.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are people who use the headphone out saying that the buffer Op amp changes the sound? I was under the impression that the Buffer Op Amp only changed the RCA's? Or are they using an external amp connected to the Essence STX through RCA?_

 

they are using an external amp, otherwise no point in swapping buffer as you pointed.


----------



## XpanD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XpanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what'd be a save "speed" here, and would the LM6172IN work?_

 

Still need some help here... Also, any people who prefer the 2228 over the 2137, and why? And finally, I too am interested in what the THS4032 performs like.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_they are using an external amp, otherwise no point in swapping buffer as you pointed._

 

Well I am going to start using an external amp. Does this mean I should Use RCA?


----------



## dex85

yes, but you can keep using headphone output @ Normal gain, if you need 2 analog outputs.


----------



## sokolov91

Ok, well I finally got that Cryoed hubble jack installed to see if my noise issue was grounding, like leeperry suggested. Unfortunatly, that is not the issue (yes it was installed properly, and properly grounded). But on the bright side, the new jack, and dedicated line sound truly amazing -even with the god awful noise having its way with quiet passages.

 So I am pretty sure it is my graphics card. Noise becomes unbearable when I am playing a game. The thing whines like a B**** in the right channel. I am really wondering if it is the STX or the graphics card, but the graphics card is the only thing that makes the noise worse or quieter...

 I really don't want to RMA my card though... means no counter strike for a good month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 To elaborate on the jack a bit. Sound is a bit cold, but very, very clear. Seems much much more "responsive" and alive. So I am glad this issue led to this upgrade, even if it didn't solve what I wanted. So I don't know if the cryogenic treatment does anything, but the dedicated line sure as heck did!

 Thanks for everyones help so far.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XpanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Still need some help here... Also, any people who prefer the 2228 over the 2137, and why? And finally, I too am interested in what the THS4032 performs like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Sounds like we are going to have to find out on our own...


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Ok, well I finally got that Cryoed hubble jack installed to see if my noise issue was grounding, like leeperry suggested. Unfortunatly, that is not the issue (yes it was installed properly, and properly grounded). But on the bright side, the new jack, and dedicated line sound truly amazing -even with the god awful noise having its way with quiet passages.

 So I am pretty sure it is my graphics card. Noise becomes unbearable when I am playing a game. The thing whines like a B**** in the right channel. I am really wondering if it is the STX or the graphics card, but the graphics card is the only thing that makes the noise worse or quieter...

 I really don't want to RMA my card though... means no counter strike for a good month 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 To elaborate on the jack a bit. Sound is a bit cold, but very, very clear. Seems much much more "responsive" and alive. So I am glad this issue led to this upgrade, even if it didn't solve what I wanted. So I don't know if the cryogenic treatment does anything, but the dedicated line sure as heck did!

 Thanks for everyones help so far._

 

What other audio equipment is your computer connected to. In my case I had an ungrounded preamp between the grounded speakers & the grounded computer thus creating a gound loop. When I removed the ground from the speakers the ground loop was broken & the hum along with any noise which admitedly in my case was already extremely low went away completely. It was already so lowthough that I had to turn my preamp which is very high gain up to 3/4 volume to hear it. It was probably more than 18db gain at that point. The noise now can not even be heard at full gain now. Not even any noise from the video card at all which I was hearing very subtly before.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XpanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So what'd be a save "speed" here, and would the LM6172IN work?_

 

The LM6172 have been tested in this circuit and they are stable.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just threw in 3x LME49720NA. Holy crap the bass is insane!_

 

Yes as your buffering the same signature over the same signature, if that makes any sense. A nice combo might be the NA's in the I/V and a HA module in the buffer. That would give you the heavier bass but still give you the high end extenion and clarity. 
 If your going to try an external amplifier use the line outs


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_bump, any input on the THS4032?_

 

They are quite good actually. One of those opamps meant for others task that audio guys have adopted. These need to be put on adapters to be used on these cards. 
 Funny, I just built two with power caps to use in another circuit and they sound great.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What other audio equipment is your computer connected to. In my case I had an ungrounded preamp between the grounded speakers & the grounded computer thus creating a gound loop. When I removed the ground from the speakers the ground loop was broken & the hum along with any noise which admitedly in my case was already extremely low went away completely. It was already so lowthough that I had to turn my preamp which is very high gain up to 3/4 volume to hear it. It was probably more than 18db gain at that point. The noise now can not even be heard at full gain now. Not even any noise from the video card at all which I was hearing very subtly before._

 

RCA out to a LD mk V. That is it. There was no noise downstairs on my Mccormack ALD-1 pre amp that I was aware of, which is high gain. 

 the noise with the LD MV5 is present, even when the volume knob on the amp is turned all the way down... And when there is not music playing too and fluctuates with the load of the graphics card.

 No noise when used with the headphone jack.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why are people who use the headphone out saying that the buffer Op amp changes the sound? I was under the impression that the Buffer Op Amp only changed the RCA's? Or are they using an external amp connected to the Essence STX through RCA?_

 

Just must be a bit of confusion.
 This type of layout is common for some DAC's. This DAC is a current output part so it needs a converter section.

 There are two dual channel opamps (JRC2114D) as it is a differential input currenct to voltage section (I/V) Followed by a single ended buffer the LM4562NA or the headphone amplifier depending on how you have the card set.

 When using the line out:

 (I/V)JRC2114D\
 _____________Single ended buffer (LM4562NA)
 (I/V)JRC2114D/

 When you switch to headphone mode the circuit is re-routed to this:

 (I/V)JRC2114D\
 _____________Headphone Amplifier chip (TPA6120A2)
 (I/V)JRC2114D/

 Hope that helps.


----------



## Shizdan

Thank explains alot now. Thanks for the nice diagram!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thank explains alot now. Thanks for the nice diagram!_

 

That is basically how it is laid out and operates. Like a triangle, the two I/V at the bottom both feeding into either the buffer or the headphone amp.


----------



## happosai

Someone already tried the Burson discrete OpAmps ... "worth buying?












Burson OpAmps


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes a few people have tried the Burson unit and the Audio-GD units.


----------



## stoutblock

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are quite good actually. One of those opamps meant for others task that audio guys have adopted. These need to be put on adapters to be used on these cards. 
 Funny, I just built two with power caps to use in another circuit and they sound great._

 

Thanks, yes I am aware they need an adapter. I guess they have a sound simlar to the OPA chips but possibly even better?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *stoutblock* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks, yes I am aware they need an adapter. I guess they have a sound simlar to the OPA chips but possibley even better?_

 

They are very fast opamps, meant for communication work IIRC. Many like them very much for audio work but they can be unstable in some circuits.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_RCA out to a LD mk V. That is it. There was no noise downstairs on my Mccormack ALD-1 pre amp that I was aware of, which is high gain. 

 the noise with the LD MV5 is present, even when the volume knob on the amp is turned all the way down... And when there is not music playing too and fluctuates with the load of the graphics card.

 No noise when used with the headphone jack._

 

Looking at the Little Dot Mk5 I do suspect a gound loop as the problem. The Maccormack would not present that problem in & of itself looking at the power cord arrangement. You need a ground loop isolator.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *happosai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Someone already tried the Burson discrete OpAmps ... "worth buying?






Burson OpAmps_

 

crikey looks like a tight fit!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes but they also come with extension cables to move them to a better position. Some don't like that idea though.


----------



## 8-bit thief

I just replaced the stock LM4562 buffer with the OPA2228, the most noticeable change is the treble has been tuned down quite a bit, the vocals also sound a tiny bit further back, the bass has increased very small amount but it's only noticeable on certain songs, all of this characteristics are welcome considering the bass is lean, vocals are upfront and the treble is emphasized on my AD900's.

 On the downside I did notice a loss in clarity (which I attribute to the treble being toned down) and while the bass has increased by a tiny amount it is less defined and more flabby/uncontrolled sounding, the pros far outweigh the cons however.

 In conclusion OPA2228 + AD900's = win

 Can't wait to swap the other 2 sockets.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Careful, don't wash out the sound.... The 2227 like the 2228 are known to be bassy, so if you put that in the buffer it will roll off much of the high end produced by the I/V section. If you put bassy opamps in the I/V you can get a totally washed out sound siganture. Sometimes people use a similar procedure to purposly roll-of some of the high end if they have bright cans or speakers.


----------



## 8-bit thief

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Careful, don't wash out the sound.... The 2227 like the 2228 are known to be bassy, so if you put that in the buffer it will roll off much of the high end produced by the I/V section. If you put bassy opamps in the I/V you can get a totally washed out sound siganture. Sometimes people use a similar procedure to purposly roll-of some of the high end if they have bright cans or speakers._

 

Yeah I did notice a slight loss in details, I edited my post noting that, I'm planning on switching the JRCs to OPA2107, If I lose any more detail I might just put the stock LM4562 back, but from what I've read the 2107s are one of the more brighter and more detailed sounding burr browns so I think I should be OK.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The OPA2107's are very detailed so they may be a good mix with the OPA2228.
 Aloowing the bass impact of the 2228 but still giving you more detail then is available on the JRC2114SD's. Good luck with your testing.


----------



## 8-bit thief

You were right Robo, the 2228 isn't that great in the buffer slot, this morning I put the stock LM4562 back in the STX buffer and swapped out the stock opamp in my little dot I+ with the 2228, I gained at least 3 times the bass with the 2228 in my little dot than when I had it in the STX's buffer, it's not sloppy and uncontrolled sounding either and it's extremely impactful, the highs are toned down like last time but not to the point where I lose detail and the vocals retained that pleasant distant sound from before.

 The soundstage has been compromised quite a bit however, replacing the 2 JRCs with 2107's like I had originally planned will hopefully fix that though.


 I can actually listen to house music with my AD900's now


----------



## ROBSCIX

Enjoy.


----------



## nivlek

I tried 3x49720NA, its sounds bass heavy but loosing other details. Then I tried 2x49720NA with the stock JRC2114 to buffer. sounds alot better, with good bass but still keeping other details, more balance. Any other combination worth to try for my setup?


----------



## XpanD

Alright guys... I bought and received an Essence STX. The sound quality so far is amazing, but... Every time I play a game, and it crashes, the last-second sound keeps on looping infinitely. This can even stack, looping a multitude of sounds. Also, for some reason GTA: San Andreas seems to be crashing almost every 5 minutes.

 What could be the cause of this? I really hate having to reboot every time, and the device manager trick doesn't work because it forces me to restart.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *nivlek* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried 3x49720NA, its sounds bass heavy but loosing other details. Then I tried 2x49720NA with the stock JRC2114 to buffer. sounds alot better, with good bass but still keeping other details, more balance. Any other combination worth to try for my setup?_

 

We have basically identical setups. I found the 3x 49720 to be bass heavy and killed everything as well.


----------



## dL.

Hello,

 I just picked up the Essence STX. When I switch mode between 2 channel to headphone (Analog out), theres this clicking noise inside my case. Is this normal? If not, what is the problem? I have already connected external power to the sound card.

 dL


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just answered this in another thread, so to repeat:

 That is normal. You are hearing the relays re-routing the circuit.
 You can test it by going into the recording panel and swicthing betweem mic or line in.
 Again, you will hear a click. When you boot the card you shoudl also hear it clicking.
 As the card is setting the I/O as you have configured in the drivers.
 Perfectly normal and it gets asked every so often. Common on Xonar cards.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8-bit thief* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I can actually listen to house music with my AD900's now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

You own ATH-AD900's? 
 I've been thinking about getting them.
 Are you mostly happy with them?


----------



## wali

After two weeks of struggling with Xonar and trying to enjoy it with headphones, I give up. I think no matter what, connecting a high-end headphone to the headphone out of Xonar is not going to sound as good as it should, because the highly sensitive headphone is connected to a PC which is noisy. Most high-end headphones are for monitoring purpose so connecting one to a PC will always entail monitoring whats happening inside the PC, even though the noise might not be audible, but it is still there (noise floor?). 

 Anyway, speakers are the way to go with Xonar and its with speakers that the full potential of this card becomes apparent, and its jaw dropping... a high quality monitors or even full towers, give it a try and you won't connect your headphones to the card again, even with audio out and a headphone amp... For headphone listening get a DAC, something like Musiland US2, which hopefully my replacement should arrive soon.

 Anyway, I repeat myself that no modding is going to change the headphone listening quality of this headphone, keep it stock and connect it to a set of high quality speakers. 

 anyway, i'm happy to got that off my chest. had it not been for speakers i would have sold the xonar.

 xonar XTS
 HD580/ HD600 grills HD650 cable


----------



## ROBSCIX

Noise is always there in ANY audio circuit. If you can hear it or not is another question.
 There are many using this card for headphones and many use it with speakers. Many around use it connected to their own amplifiers. Actually modding the card can change quite a bit about it...considering well your changing the components. It has been posted a few times and commonly known among owners that the line output is higher quality then the headphones output. The headphones output is not going to compete with some high end headphones amplifier. You have to consider the price of the unit and keep things in perspective.


----------



## 8-bit thief

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *jalyst* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You own ATH-AD900's? 
 I've been thinking about getting them.
 Are you mostly happy with them?_

 

Yeah I'm pretty happy with them, they go well with the genres I listen to, Rock sounds amazing due to the emphasized highs and upper mids it really makes electric guitars and cymbals shine, the lower mids also stand out a little bit which gives drums a nice kick (not nearly as much as the highs and upper mids), classical music is another genre I listen to a lot which also sounds amazing due to the wide soundstage, I'm a huge metal head too and I find it does the genre decently though I think most people wouldn't like it because the lack of bass really sucks out a lot of the aggressiveness, it doesn't really bother me that much though because I've always found the sharp crash of a cymbal much more exciting than thump thump, but I wouldn't mind a little more oomph either.

 The AD900 is bass light, but I rarely listen to hip-hop, dance or anything bass heavy, if I did I wouldn't have bought these phones in the first place however I find that there's enough bass to get me by on the rare occasions where I do listen to these genres.


----------



## dL.

Will it be higher quality if I plug my Audioengine A2 to the STX via RCA cable directly versus plugging it through 3.5mm and using the supplied RCA/3.5 adapter?

 dL


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *XpanD* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Alright guys... I bought and received an Essence STX. The sound quality so far is amazing, but... Every time I play a game, and it crashes, the last-second sound keeps on looping infinitely. This can even stack, looping a multitude of sounds. Also, for some reason GTA: San Andreas seems to be crashing almost every 5 minutes.

 What could be the cause of this? I really hate having to reboot every time, and the device manager trick doesn't work because it forces me to restart._

 

Are you using the latest drivers off the ASUS site?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dL.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Will it be higher quality if I plug my Audioengine A2 to the STX via RCA cable directly versus plugging it through 3.5mm and using the supplied RCA/3.5 adapter?

 dL_

 

Connect your speakers to the RCA's (line outs). If you have the RCA cables to your speakers just use those. If you don't have the add an adapter then avoid using it.


----------



## dL.

Well the thing is, the A2 speakers comes with 3.5mm cable only so I am using the adapter supplied in the STX box. But I can pick up a cheap RCA cable for about $5 if the quality is noticeably better. So is it better or same?

 dL


----------



## ROBSCIX

I would say just use what you have. You can try better ones if your current ones are really bad but I doubt you will notice the difference.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dL.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well the thing is, the A2 speakers comes with 3.5mm cable only so I am using the adapter supplied in the STX box. But I can pick up a cheap RCA cable for about $5 if the quality is noticeably better. So is it better or same?

 dL_

 

Quality will not likely be noticably better as the output of the RCA outputs have a relatively low output impedance. Because of this there will be very little negative interaction with the cable except for maybe channel crosstalk. Music should remain lively no matter the cable used.


----------



## XpanD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Are you using the latest drivers off the ASUS site?_

 

Yep, I am. Tried both the CD drivers, and the latest Windows XP 32 bit drivers off of the site. The CD drivers made the computer reboot upon starting up the game, or would not give me any sound in it. The downloaded drivers worked, but the game crashes every 5 minutes, with the sound hanging too.

 This card has a fantastic sound, but I fear I may have to send it back to get another card that would work, such as the X-Fi Forte...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Some games will have patches for certain cards. Might want to check for your favorite games. You have issues no matter of you have GX enabled or not? 
 If the game doesn't need it, leave it off. Some games might have trouble with the emulation.
 I would start there... You might consider a dedicated gaming card if the issues keep up.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *germanium* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Looking at the Little Dot Mk5 I do suspect a gound loop as the problem. The Maccormack would not present that problem in & of itself looking at the power cord arrangement. You need a ground loop isolator._

 

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly would that be? I made sure both the computer and little dot are grounded. I am guessing this would be an add on? Would you be able to recommend a (preferably cheap) product?

 Would this degrade sound quality?

 My mccormack (and computer when downstairs) passes through a PS audio power center quintet filter.. maybe I should see if that does the trick. 

 Again, thank you for your help.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *8-bit thief* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I'm pretty happy with them, they go well with the genres I listen to, Rock sounds amazing due to the emphasized highs and upper mids it really makes electric guitars and cymbals shine, the lower mids also stand out a little bit which gives drums a nice kick (not nearly as much as the highs and upper mids), classical music is another genre I listen to a lot which also sounds amazing due to the wide soundstage, I'm a huge metal head too and I find it does the genre decently though I think most people wouldn't like it because the lack of bass really sucks out a lot of the aggressiveness, it doesn't really bother me that much though because I've always found the sharp crash of a cymbal much more exciting than thump thump, but I wouldn't mind a little more oomph either.

 The AD900 is bass light, but I rarely listen to hip-hop, dance or anything bass heavy, if I did I wouldn't have bought these phones in the first place however I find that there's enough bass to get me by on the rare occasions where I do listen to these genres._

 

Interesting thanks, 

 When I last researched this, I don't recall others saying it's bass was notably weak. 
 Most seemed to think it was pretty solid all-round, but everyone hears differently I guess.

 Thanks again.


----------



## kwang411

Hey guys, I just bought my STX today, and I'm so shocked by its sound quality. 

 I find that it's headphone out sounds better than my Travagan's Red amp when I plug my K701 into it. The sound is much richer and there is absolutely no noise at all! 

 I did run into one problem though, if I turn up the volume knob in the Xonar Audio Center to max and play music with my PC speakers, there would be crackling sounds at high/loud passages. Is this normal?? Thanks!

 --------------------------------------------------
 I think I figured it out, it's because when I have the volume in both Foobar and the Audio Center on at max, the volume is way too loud so there's clipping, causing the crackling sounds --> Please correct me if i'm wrong. 

 The funny thing is I used to have this setting with the onboard sound and this didn't happen :S


----------



## ROBSCIX

Your just using the line outs for the speakers right?


----------



## kwang411

Yea, the RCA outs.


----------



## XpanD

Well guys... I will be returning my STX soon. Sad indeed, considering the great sound, but with me not being able to play any of my favorite games it's something I'll have to do.

 I will probably go with an Auzentech X-Fi Forte for a replacement, considering my onboard sound didn't magically fix itself since 2 weeks ago.


----------



## dL.

What is the point of the HiFi mode? I don't hear a difference at all.

 dL


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dL.* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What is the point of the HiFi mode? I don't hear a difference at all.

 dL_

 

Turns off all processing such as the dolby surround simulators, eq & such. allows bit perfect sound provided other settings in the sound properties are set to the same sample rate as the source files sample rate (C.D.= 44.1KHz).


----------



## Shizdan

Anybody have any good suggestions for Op Amp setups to use with the HD600's?

 I'm looking for wide soundstage, Hard hitting bass, Smooth highs but not enough to put me asleep (Just enough to not fatigue my ears)


----------



## zimmzio

A nice upgrade from stock would be something like opa2111kp in IV to opa2137p in buffer say, but this is all very relative...Just sharing a little! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm ordering more opamps I still didn't order the popular LME49720's that everybody is talking about here, i will and we'll see...


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A nice upgrade from stock would be something like opa2111kp in IV to opa2137p in buffer say, but this is all very relative...Just sharing a little! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm ordering more opamps I still didn't order the popular LME49720's that everybody is talking about here, i will and we'll see..._

 

I looked it up and this user said that the bass lacks punch.

 I just ordered some samples anyways from Texas Instruments.


----------



## gurubhai

^^opa2137p sould be able to fix that.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_^^opa2137p sould be able to fix that._

 

I just ordered a few samples.

 Any other samples I should get from Texas Instruments or National Semi Conducor?

 I have as of Now

 -2x NJM2114D (Stock Essence STX Amp)
 -1x LM4562NA (Stock Essence STX Amp) (5x more coming)

 Samples I have ordered or just ordered.

 -4x LME49720NA
 -2x LME49720HA (Headfi User Putting On Adapters)
 -4x LME49710HA (Headfi User Putting On Adapters)
 -5x OPA2111KP
 -5x OPA2137EA/250
 -5x OPA2137U (SOIC Version)
 -10x OPA2137p
 -5x OPA2132P 
 -5x OPA2107AU (Mistake. Reordered -5x OPA2107AP But they are backordered)
 -2x LT1057ACN8#PBF
 -2x LT1358CN8#PBF
 -2x LT1358IN8#PBF
 -2x LT1364CN8#PBF


----------



## dex85

in case you will use the line-outs, try the 2xJRC2114D + LME49720HA. i'm using that combo right now and my op-amp quest is finally in the end i think. tonally very balanced, great soundstage (both the width and depth) and clarity. 2xLME49720HA+JRC2114D had similar tonality but lacked in microdetails and soundstage. the latter had a little heftier bass but it's not bothering me at all. the former is certainly not bass lacking, but it might bother you if you prefer the bass to stand out.


----------



## dextersventures

Can someone recommend an opamp for my grados on the stx?

 I currently have grado sr-80s and love them to death. Will be buying the sr-325is in a week as well. The thing is, my headphones sound better coming from my ipod than they do from my asus essence stx soundcard. The ipod sounds much more livelier and forward, like im on the stage with the musician. The ipod gives me tons of energy that I love. The asus stx on the other hand with the JRC2114 (default), sounds like there is a veil in front of the music, perhaps like im sitting 10 rows back. 

 Can someone recommend an opamp to fix this for the stx?

 My preferences, I love upfront, forward, bright, detailed, fast, hyper articulate sound. Any suggestions?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Do you have the headphones amplifier set properly? I find when this is set incorrectly people report either the card sounds veiled or "fatiguing" depending on if they are overdriving or underpowering their cans. Not saying that is your issue, just saying have a look.


----------



## dextersventures

Yep, I matched the impedance on the card to the rating of grados. Really that is already the default when buying.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just making sure as this is common. 
 I would say try some new opamps and see if you can find a combination that is more to your personal liking.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_in case you will use the line-outs, try the 2xJRC2114D + LME49720HA. i'm using that combo right now and my op-amp quest is finally in the end i think. tonally very balanced, great soundstage (both the width and depth) and clarity. 2xLME49720HA+JRC2114D had similar tonality but lacked in microdetails and soundstage. the latter had a little heftier bass but it's not bothering me at all. the former is certainly not bass lacking, but it might bother you if you prefer the bass to stand out._

 

Yes i tend to agree...leaving the default JRC's in and changing the buffer gives good results also. The aggressor here is the 4562, not the JRC's.


----------



## zimmzio

One of the reason i would change the JRC's amongst other thing is for better separation. JRC's in buffer "Can't" be ideal amongst the ocean of opamps out there.

 *edit: i mean't JRC's in I/V.


----------



## dex85

+1; i think that buffer has even more influence on the sound than the I/V. i had been listening from headphone output of the card for quite some time, so i got pretty familiar with the signatures of the various op-amps when placed in I/V.

 when i placed the JRC2114D in buffer it pretty much took over the sound, kinda veiled sounding with narrow but deep soundstage. now when i swapped the i/v with buffer i hear mostly the 49720HA signature. open, transparent sound with wide soundstage. JRC in I/V added some weight and soundstage depth. together they combine for very coherent sound image, nothing sticks out.

 i'm finally off to enjoy music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with previous experiments there was always something that didn't cut it for me. it was mostly caused by peaks in frequency responcy, which can be interesting in the beginning but gets very annoying after some time.


----------



## zimmzio

...I would concentrate on just changing the buffer at first, much easier task if you ask me.

 The I/V section is like the power section on tube amps, so the JRC's are like the power tubes sorta speak. Owners of tube amp that have experience with tube rolling know the importance that the buffer has over the power tubes...I don't know about other folks but i don't spend to much time rolling the power tubes on mine. Just saying.


----------



## zimmzio

well burned in 2xJRC2114D->opa2111kp sounds allot better then stock, that for sure!


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I just ordered a few samples.

 Any other samples I should get from Texas Instruments or National Semi Conducor?

 I have as of Now

 -2x NJM2114D (Stock Essence STX Amp)
 -1x LM4562NA (Stock Essence STX Amp) (5x more coming)

 Samples I have ordered or just ordered.

 -4x LME49720NA
 -2x LME49720HA (Headfi User Putting On Adapters)
 -4x LME49710HA (Headfi User Putting On Adapters)
 -5x OPA2111KP
 -5x OPA2137EA/250
 -5x OPA2137U
 -10x OPA2137p
 -5x OPA2132P
 -5x OPA2107AU (Mistake. Reordered -5x OPA2107AP But they are backordered)
 -2x LT1057ACN8#PBF
 -2x LT1358CN8#PBF
 -2x LT1358IN8#PBF
 -2x LT1364CN8#PBF_

 

Out of all those, What combos should I try for Large soundstage, Hard hitting bass, Great highs (But not fatiguing)?


----------



## zimmzio

Just start with say 2xJRC2114D->opa2107AP should match well with dark can's...I can't talk about the National's and Linear tech yet...Still didn't order them, i procrastinate allot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i prefer taking it slow. Also I would let all opamps burn-in a little before passing final judgment.

 p.s: I really like 2xJRC2114D->opa2111AP with my setup...letting the opa2107AP burn-in as i write this!


----------



## zimmzio

BB is not known for making irritating opamps! ...again just saying.


----------



## zimmzio

...And yes I'm one of those weirdo's that believe in burn-in! Haha


----------



## zimmzio

Shizdan> Trust your initial impression...don't stick with a fatiguing opamp.

 *The opa2111 is a definite champ in my book!


----------



## zimmzio

Shizdan> i just looked at your sig... roll m8100(cv4010) or M8161 in this thing and stop complaining about not getting enough bass son!


----------



## Shizdan

Apparently my opa2107AP is on backorder and wont make it to july 15th!


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Apparently my opa2107AP is on backorder and wont make it to july 15th!_

 

Don't worry it doesn't appear to make a good buffer as of now...don't have time to chat allot, I'll be back later this week. Have a nice weekend!


----------



## ROBSCIX

..you mean in your opinion, have you actually tested it as a buffer?

 The OPA2107's make great I/V opamps but I prefer different units for the buffer.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_..you mean in your opinion, have you actually tested it as a buffer?

 The OPA2107's make great I/V opamps but I prefer different units for the buffer._

 

I think it was clear enough, yes the buffer and not the i/v...would be better suited to a control freak then a true purist in this configuration. If you like having your head clamped in a vise while listening to your music, buy all means go right ahead! (processed and constricted comes to mind) Not my cup of tea. Can i go now! Have a nice one!

 *Sorry, i guess i sounded a little caustic there Rob...But i felt a little insulted there, Audio is very relative and nobody likes having there ear palate insulted. Lets just finish this by saying nobody should feel the need to borrow another ones ear drums to appreciate music or just plain sound for that matter. n'est-ce pas? All is well and Really have a nice day!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think it was clear enough, yes the buffer and not the i/v...would be better suited to a control freak or a stuck-up nun then a true purist in this configuration. If you like having your head clamped in a vise while listening to your music, buy all means go right ahead! (processed and constricted comes to mind) Not my cup of tea. Can i go now! Have a nice one!

 *Sorry, i guess i sounded a little caustic there Rob...But i felt a little insulted there, Audio is very relative and nobody likes having there ear palate insulted. Lets just finish this by saying nobody should feel the need to borrow another ones ear drums to appreciate music or just plain sound for that matter. n'est-ce pas? All is well and Really have a nice day! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Wasn't trying to insult you. I was asking if you have tested it or not.


----------



## forciano

Zimmzio you must realize that the whole point of people contributing to this thread is to find as much common denominators in this whole audio enthusiast game. And help noobs like me make more informed decisions when purchasing new toys.


----------



## GLAJMAN

I have recently bought this card (Asus Xonar essence STX). Does it prefer any particular headphones? I currently own the Sennheiser HD201 (lame i know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), but want to replace them with something better. How does the AKG 701 sound with this card (amp)? Or would you suggest something else?

 Thank you in advance!

 Regards.


----------



## dex85

K701 can sound harsh plugged in to card's amp, depending on the recording. it's driven reasonably well on the middle gain though. if you're going to use the cards' amp, you could consider something more revealing than the JRC2114D in the I/V.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *forciano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Zimmzio you must realize that the whole point of people contributing to this thread is to find as much common denominators in this whole audio enthusiast game. And help noobs like me make more informed decisions when purchasing new toys._

 

Yes, don't worry I'm aware of that...I didn't sleep well the night before and was a little grumpy... Usually i don't bite!


----------



## pacmantravis

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I did a search and could not find an answer. 

 But, how does this card compare to a dedicated DAC/AMP combo like the uDAC and little dot i+?


----------



## Shizdan

Out of these that I received today, What should I try for large soundstage, Hard hitting bass and Smooth highs?

 -2x LME49720NA
 -5x OPA2111KP
 -5x OPA2137EA/250 (requires soldering)
 -10x OPA2137p
 -5x OPA2132P 
 -2x LT1358CN8#PBF
 -2x LT1057ACN8#PBF
 -2x LT1364CN8#PBF 

 Also I have more coming in the near near future..
 -2x LT1358IN8#PBF
 -2x LME49720HA (Headfi User Putting On Adapters)
 -4x LME49710HA (Headfi User Putting On Adapters)


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can try changing the I/V to the LME49720NA's. These are said to give pretty good bass and clarity according to posters. Maybe pop the 2137 into the buffer...


----------



## Shizdan

Well I kept
 2x JRC2114D (Stock) in the I/V's and tried

 -OPA2111KP - They sounded good but I wasn't all that impressed. Although the soundstage was pretty decent

 -OPA2137P - I have these in now and all I can say is wow. They just sound more lively!

 My test track is Time - Pink Floyd

 Out of all the Op Amps I cant use the following due to my lack of soldering skills!
 -OPA2137EA
 -OPA2137U
 -OPA2107AU


----------



## KingFiercer

You're using LME4920NA in buffer?


----------



## Shizdan

Im using the JRC2114D in the I/v and tried the OPA211KP and OPA2137P in the Buffer.


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well I kept
 2x JRC2114D (Stock) in the I/V's and tried

 -OPA2111KP - They sounded good but I wasn't all that impressed. Although the soundstage was pretty decent

 -OPA2137P - I have these in now and all I can say is wow. They just sound more lively!

 My test track is Time - Pink Floyd

 Out of all the Op Amps I cant use the following due to my lack of soldering skills!
 -OPA2137EA
 -OPA2137U
 -OPA2107AU_

 



 Yes , the opa2137p is more dynamic both less refine then the opa2111kp...you can listen to the opa2111kp at higher volumes, you get decent imaging and soundstage. In the end what really matters is that You! like it, doesnt't matter who say what! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just passing, i don't have allot of time for all of this...


----------



## zimmzio

We don't like the same audio signature, don't worry about it!


----------



## zimmzio

Shizdan> did you receive your M8161?

 *Also i never said the opa2111 to be awesome in this config...I just said it was a step in the right direction for me, a step up! thats all...believe me I'm not through! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *i still think of it highly though, and i think i know why...


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Shizdan> did you receive your M8161?

 *Also i never said the opa2111 to be awesome in this config...I just said it was a step in the right direction for me, a step up! thats all...believe me I'm not through! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *i still think of it highly though, and i think i know why..._

 

Yes I have had them for for a few days now and they are amazing. I also have a few other tubes coming but honestly I really like the M8161's. They smooth out the highs so much so they dont kill my ears!


----------



## zimmzio

Yes! hehe... Now change your 6n6p-i to 6N6P New Old(est) Stock. You should hear the difference. 60's - 70's if possible but you must try the 6N6P for yourself and see if you like them more. I prefer 6N6P...Allot of people do, they just sound better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *I'm telling you, i wouldn't be surprises if theres a 6N6P in space right now in Sputnik! ...i don't know, i wounder. It's a really good tube. Russian had them mounted on their Nukes!

 *Actually *80's i guess could be ok also...But its true that an early 70's sound different then an early 80's...70's has deeper bass, really nice!


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes! hehe... Now change your 6n6p-i to 6N6P New Old(est) Stock. You should hear the difference. 60's - 70's if possible but you must try the 6N6P for yourself and see if you like them more. I prefer 6N6P...Allot of people do, they just sound better. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *I'm telling you, i wouldn't be surprises if theres a 6N6P in space right now in Sputnik! ...i don't know, i wounder. It's a really good tube. Russian had them mounted on their Nukes!

 *Actually *80's i guess could be ok also...But its true that an early 70's sound different then an early 80's...70's has deeper bass, really nice!_

 

Right now I cant really figure out what power tubes I have...


 Power Tubes say 6H6N-N (last N seems to be like a backwards N) and under that it says 0484

 I posted in the Little Dot Forum and got this anwser

Link


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Right now I cant really figure out what power tubes I have...


 Power Tubes say 6H6N-N (last N seems to be like a backwards N) and under that it says 0484

 I posted in the Little Dot Forum and got this anwser

Link_

 

Yes that is the 6n6p-i...i would say change it for a 6n6p(6H6N)...they really sound better and they're really cheap, its not even funny! But 60's - 70's are getting rare...so expect a little premium.

 * Oh and yes, 0484 means fourth week of 1984 - Do you have OTK marking on it? The lower the number the better, but don't mine that to much, lets not go nuts here! hehe


----------



## zimmzio

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*I'm telling you, i wouldn't be surprises if theres a 6N6P in space right now in Sputnik! ...i don't know, i wounder. It's a really good tube. Russian had them mounted on their Nukes!_

 

Woah! Ok, never mind that comment, i was a little spaced there, all Sputnik crashed/burned in reentry, but never the less a Russian 6N6P is a damn fine tube!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Hey guys, I have confirmed with the powers that be at ASUS that they will be releasing a new and improved driver set the the public for the STX/ST.

 Yes, they will provide "bit perfect" output.

 These new drivers are low latency and based on what I have seen they provide some very impressive numbers in comparison to previous releases.

 While still in early Beta stage they provide what some of you have been after, using ASIO to acheive bit perfect output. There are a few other details the you might find interesting about the driver but I don't want to release all the surprises...

 Stay tuned for more information and updates.


----------



## gurubhai

^^ Great news!

 Can we get the beta drivers?
 I don't mind being a beta tester.


----------



## ROBSCIX

..They still have a few bugs right now. I will look into it though and see if they can be passsed around. Don't get your hopes up.


----------



## wali

they better release those drivers soon because i'm already regretting purchasing the stx and since the day i got my musiland 02 i have not listened to stx at all...

 i put up my stx for sale and no offers!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Should be here sooner or later they are in Beta stage right now.


----------



## leeperry

oh wow, some bit-perfect(and hopefully automatically bit-matched over KS/ASIO/WASAPI) beta drivers for the stx..who would have thought? they're only 1 year late...we sure can wait another year for the final release.


----------



## zenpunk

do the drivers implement some sort of short cut or an easier way to switch between headphone and speaker mode? Find it a pain to have to open the control panel everytime.


----------



## dex85

looking forward to new drivers, hopefully they'll add 88.2kHz sample rate.


----------



## Ra97oR

New drivers? DO WANT!


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Dex85, they do support 88.2Khz and 176Khz also...

 When I get more informaiton on release date for the public I will let you guys know.


----------



## gurubhai

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Dex85, they do support 88.2Khz and 176Khz also..._

 

Awesome.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I need these quick now.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Awesome.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need these quick now._

 

I think many will be looking forward to these. There is a few things that seem to have been changed. There seems to be a great deal of driver optimization for ASIO.


----------



## zimmzio

Good to hear! Better Nuendo performance will be welcome...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zimmzio* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Good to hear! Better Nuendo performance will be welcome..._

 


 Well the driver shows optimizations that improve the latency by roughly 1/3 based on what I have seen. Meaning the new driver latency is 1/3 of the current driver latency using the same settings.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Still early Beta though.


----------



## wali

I have made one observation with STX. 

 It sounds really good in the first 15 or so minutes of listening and the sound gets less detailed and fatiguing from then on until it sounds completely uninteresting. 

 Could it be that the card heats up, especially with the shield thing? 

 Just a crazy thought. I'll check to see if the card really heats up when i get time.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Hmm, considering most other owners in this thread would disagree with you perhaps you have some type of issue or bad synergy with your headphones?
 Who knows... Did you consider changing the opamps and trying to get a signature that is more to your liking?


----------



## kuben

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have made one observation with STX. 

 It sounds really good in the first 15 or so minutes of listening and the sound gets less detailed and fatiguing from then on until it sounds completely uninteresting. 

 Could it be that the card heats up, especially with the shield thing? 

 Just a crazy thought. I'll check to see if the card really heats up when i get time._

 

I can confirm this.


----------



## leeperry

well, sell them and move on.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Really? According most the members here the card is great. I find no source will please everybody and it depends on what else your using for gear.
 I can quote the multiple pages of gushing praise you wrote on this card.
 Here allow me:
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_wow I've just put the LM4562, I'm stunned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*PS:* the STX measures better than the ST on the line-out, I'm personally back on the STX!_

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I really wouldn't hold my breath for the ST..it was a sheer waste of cash/time/energy for me, won't get burned twice I tell you...the STX is fantastic 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

There is many more in these threads just like this.


----------



## wasp131

lol,multiple personality disorder maybe?


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have made one observation with STX. 

 It sounds really good in the first 15 or so minutes of listening and the sound gets less detailed and fatiguing from then on until it sounds completely uninteresting._

 

turning off the computer every 15 mins is also an option.


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_turning off the computer every 15 mins is also an option._

 

I was wrong about STX, I was using the 64-300 ohms setting for my HD580. I should have used the 300-600ohms setting and played with the volume control.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I was wrong about STX, I was using the 64-300 ohms setting for my HD580. I should have used the 300-600ohms setting and played with the volume control._

 

Which seems to be a reoccuring issue. People not setting the card up properly.
 People either setting the gain too low or to high and complaining it is fatiguing--well yeah, way too much gain!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad you got it figured out. You can also swap out the opamp to tune more to your liking.


----------



## kuben

Im using 64-300ohm for 300ohm hd800's and the volume is set to 3 when i want to relax and 6 when i want it loud


----------



## KingFiercer

I'm using 64-600 gain too with my HD 600 - 12 relax, 24 normal, 40 heavy music.
 24% with 64-600 equivalently 100% with 0-64, and I want to note that is more transparent sound with a lightweight bass = more details and space. I like 0-64 at night with still music (not only 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 300-600 gain makes bass overloaded and treble less soft.

*kuben*
 HD800 with STX sounding good enough? =) You're using stock amps?


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im using 64-300ohm for 300ohm hd800's and the volume is set to 3 when i want to relax and 6 when i want it loud_

 

check out the HD800 impedance vs. frequency chart, it even jump above 600ohms in mid range, that headphone is a monster!






 Use the setting which I'm using:

 -300-600ohms
 -use xonar software like preamp and set the volume there at 50%
 -use foobar to control the volume


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm using 64-600 gain too with my HD 600 - 12 relax, 24 normal, 40 heavy music.
 24% with 64-600 equivalently 100% with 0-64, and I want to note that is more transparent sound with a lightweight bass = more details and space. I like 0-64 at night with still music (not only 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
 300-600 gain makes bass overloaded and treble less soft.
_

 

you're using the 300-600ohms setting using xonar software as volume control. that means you can only listen to 10% or more... Use xonar software as preamp and set the volume at 50% or more. use foobar to control the volume.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Im using 64-300ohm for 300ohm hd800's and the volume is set to 3 when i want to relax and 6 when i want it loud_

 

You are doing your HD800 some SERIOUS injustice only amping them with the STX.


----------



## kuben

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*kuben*
 HD800 with STX sounding good enough? =) You're using stock amps?_

 

Not good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im using stock opamps but i want to try 3x797BRZ

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You are doing your HD800 some SERIOUS injustice only amping them with the STX._

 

I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But Im saving money for Buffalo II and B22.


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im using stock opamps but i want to try 3x797BRZ_

 

only if you get someone w/ an oscilloscope to check whether they're not oscillating...you really don't wanna ruin your HD800, do you?

 rolling opamps blindly will not work on pesky non-unity gain stable opamps...it just won't.

 and those that are easy to roll sound like **** anyway...LME49720/OPA2132/5532/2114/etc etc.

 the HD800 is said to be hard to drive...it's a disgrace to run it from the $2 TI HP amp IC that's on the stx...the day you'll shell out $500 or so on a real headamp, you will be amazed...don't believe the hype.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kuben* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Im using stock opamps but i want to try 3x797BRZ



 I know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But Im saving money for Buffalo II and B22._

 


 You may want to just use the AD797 for a buffer. If you use the same model for both I/V and buffer the "negative" aspects of the sound signature can compound. Many STX/ST users use it for the DAC quality and not so much for the headphone amplifier. Possibly a nice tube amplifer using the STX DAC with some high quality opamps?


----------



## Duskfall

Any updates for the opamps?I am newb to this section of modding cards so i have ordered 5x LME49720 since i can get them free .I love bass and clear sound.Using Sennheiser HD 555.
 I want to use them for headphones aparently,so shall i only put 2 to I/V or shall i also try to buffer?Also other Opamp recommendations are welcome


----------



## ROBSCIX

If your using the headphones amplifer you only have to change the I/V opamp pair. The buffer opamps is used only for the line output.
 Make sure you order LME49720NA, the NA - DIP8...any other model and you will have to use adapters. Many liek the HA models but you have to use adapters with them but TO-99 metal can opamps are usually the highest grade of any opamp family.
 Good luck on your tests.


----------



## Duskfall

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If your using the headphones amplifer you only have to change the I/V opamp pair. The buffer opamps is used only for the line output.
 Make sure you order LME49720NA, the NA - DIP8...any other model and you will have to use adapters. Many liek the HA models but you have to use adapters with them but TO-99 metal can opamps are usually the highest grade of any opamp family.
 Good luck on your tests._

 

I have already in my hands the HA ones but didn't know i could use them with adapter  Thank you for your advice!


----------



## Bojamijams

Anyone know why when I use WASAPI in Foobar through the S/PDIF, I still hear other sounds passed through the coax cable? Game sounds, windows sound, though very faint, are all still being passed through the digital out. Quite annoying


----------



## ROBSCIX

You mean you are using WASAPI, for your output for music yet you get signals from other sources in the mix?


----------



## Bojamijams

Right. If i use WASAPI through analout RCA outputs, I only get my music. But if I do WASAPI through the digital out, I get other sounds as well being passed.


----------



## Bojamijams

Anyone encountered anything like this? 

 Also ROBSCIX, any news on the new STX drivers you mentioned earlier?


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I have confirmed with the powers that be at ASUS that they will be releasing a new and improved driver set the the public for the STX/ST.

 Yes, they will provide "bit perfect" output.

 These new drivers are low latency and based on what I have seen they provide some very impressive numbers in comparison to previous releases.

 While still in early Beta stage they provide what some of you have been after, using ASIO to acheive bit perfect output. There are a few other details the you might find interesting about the driver but I don't want to release all the surprises...

 Stay tuned for more information and updates._

 

Hi Rob, 

 I don't suppose you could ask them if they plan to develop dvr binaries (read: closed) for ALSA on GNU/Linux?

 I would be most grateful!


----------



## ROBSCIX

@Boj, the drivers seems good but they are still considered early Beta as far as the community is concerned. They do allow bit perfect auto sample rate audio using ASIO...
 I will check for a ETA.
 @Jalyst. I can mention it.


----------



## Duskfall

Is there a meaning to put 24 bit rate in windows 7 panel?Because Asus doesn't show this option in their control panel.I only see the sample rate.And i see that the card works in shared and exclusive mode meaning when used by an app like winamp,foobar,the app takes control of the card and changes the sample rate accordingly so i think that the manual setting isn't necessary.Anyone knows for sure?


----------



## dex85

i set it to 24-bit in foobar and don't bother with it anymore. digital volume attenuation will eat up some of the bit depth, so no point in keeping it at 16-bit. 16->24bit is not a destructive process as sample rate conversion can be, so no worries. 

 technical guys, correct me if i'm wrong.


----------



## KingFiercer

2x LME49720NA.
 Detailed sound, transperent and leaky bass, good treble.
 Not enough bass for me... Too sterile, the sound eventually wearies.

 2X LM6172IN.
 More bass than 49720, but it sound unnaturally. Middle is smooth = weak guitar drive. Deaf treble, less beautiful... Narrow soundstage felt unnatural...

 Then I started to try the Line-Out with my 300-ohms cans...

 2x LME49720NA + LM4562 = not good
 2x LME49720NA + JRC2114D = better, sound like 2x49720, but with more dense and strong bass.
 2x LME49720NA + LM6172IN = 2x LME49720NA, but not dry and more volume bass, nice smooth treble, altogether more living and nice sound. Soundstage sounds cool - sounds are flying around... =) With external amplifier this will sound better, IMHO. =)


----------



## glingrem

Hi everybody.
 Is anyone know, how manner the gain ranges of headphones amplifier is changing in real? 
 Is it realize in driver by software or by DAC built-in attenuator, or by TPA6120A2 gain changing with relay switching? Or any one else?
 Thanks a lot for answer.


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@Jalyst. I can mention it._

 

Thank-you!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *glingrem* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi everybody.
 Is anyone know, how manner the gain ranges of headphones amplifier is changing in real? 
 Is it realize in driver by software or by DAC built-in attenuator, or by TPA6120A2 gain changing with relay switching? Or any one else?
 Thanks a lot for answer._

 


 The gain ranges are changing on the amplifier chip itself.


----------



## glingrem

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The gain ranges are changing on the amplifier chip itself._

 

Hi, ROBSCIX.
 Thank You for answer.
 Are You aware the typical schematic diagram of TPA6120A2?
 Does your message mean that the amplification factor is changing by switching of feedback resistors by relay?


----------



## ROBSCIX

They don't use normal relays. I have not traced out the circuit myself. I have seen a few designs that use jumpers to set gain ranges, the STX/ST use a software switch... They may have solid state relays doing the switching, there are various ways the circuit could be controlled.
 It is hard to guess at it without actually tracing out the circuit.


----------



## KingFiercer

Just tried other combinations:
 2хJRC2114D + LM6172IN = sound is bold and low-detailed, but the bass hit well.
 2xJRC2114D + LME49720NA = powerful bass, harsh sound, different from the HP-out's sound - a little less pointed treble and greater detail..
 Now listen again *2xLME49720NA* + *LM6172IN*, still more pleasant sound, not as harsh as the previous combination, but also with good bass. I'll stay with this combination.

 By the way, LM6172, in contrast to the LM4562, have flatter graph of noise in the treble zone.

 Added: Listening music full evening... Everything sounds great.


----------



## Shizdan

I'm having trouble with my Little Dot Dac_II playing 192Khz from the Essence STX!

 Does the Essence STX support outputting 192Khz through toslink?

 My settings are as follows


----------



## wali

One of your DSP, GX is active. Disable it and enable hi fi instead.


----------



## Shizdan

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_One of your DSP, GX is active. Disable it and enable hi fi instead._

 

I tried that. Still no 192Khz.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Shizdan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm having trouble with my Little Dot Dac_II playing 192Khz from the Essence STX!

 Does the Essence STX support outputting 192Khz through toslink?

 My settings are as follows




_

 

You will likely not get 192KHz sample rate out of either SPDIF connection as there is copy protection mechanisms once you go over 48KHz. If you are trying to output blu-ray audio through SPDIF at any rate over 48KHz samplerate it will not happen. You have to have a HDMI connection to go over 48KHZ samplerate on any content protected media. If you are trying to upsample & send the result to your external DAC try using the SPDIF output instead of the SPDIF pass though. Not sure if that will work but worth a try. OOPS just noticed the SPDIF out is for the Auzentec card not the Xonar. If you are trying to upsample it may or may not work out the SPDIF connection. You know how the content providers are , they want anything high resolution locked down so you have to come to them for your music at least in any digital format.


----------



## Shizdan

But even so, I would be able to hear the test tone in the Windows Volume Control Panel for 24/192.

 When using the SPDIF from the Auzentech I can only do 96Khz (Limited due to multichannel)


----------



## gurubhai

^^ Does the little dot DAC support 192khz input via spdif ?


----------



## Marantz

I have an essence st with 2 LME49720HA on the I/V,could you guys recommend a good opamp for the buffer that would go nicely with the ones in the I/V,i was going to order another LME49720HA but thought i would ask here first,thanks.


----------



## dex85

try LME49720HA in the buffer. it works great for me with stock op-amps in the I/V, but your mileage may vary.

 it would also help if you wrote what sound character are you looking for or what speakers/headphones do you use


----------



## Marantz

I'm using the card on Acoustic Energy Aego M 2.1 Speaker System.


----------



## dex85

i'm not familiar with that system, so anything i write could be pretty much useless as synergy of all components and your preference for sound is what matters the most.

 a small hint - i usually check the frequency response with SineGen first, to see how that area is affected by various combinations of op-amps. jacked up frequency response may sound interesting at first and could be interpreted as better separation of instruments and etc., but it will get tiresome very quickly (especially the peaks, dips are much easier to live with). not to mention it doesn't get the sound of instruments and voices right, it doesn't sound natural.


----------



## kumaiti

Few questions for the owners of this card:

 1. How good do you think it sounds with a regular $30, 30ohms headphones? Would I be wasting money pairing such card with a run-of-the-mill headphone?

 2. If you had just $150 (or whatever it costs where you live), would you rather buy it or get a $150 headphone amp? In other words: is the built-in amp as good as a cheap non-portable headphone amp?

 3. Did you ever had a chance to compare the Dolby Headphone implementation with a discreet Dolby Headphone encoder (like the JVC portable unit, for example).

 4. have you tried it with bluray discs? How does it fare with virtual surround from that kind of source?


 thanks!!


----------



## Mphile

Hello,

 I was wondering what the differences are between OPA2277P, OPA2277PA, OPS2277PAG4 and OPA2277PG4. All are DIP-8 sockets, boasting the same specs. 

 Confused


----------



## dextersventures

I ordered two opa627ap to put into my asus xonar stx card for my headphone listening. When I put them into the card, the headphone volume is so very low and it distorts a little. I only bought two of them, one for each slot for the headphones. I have no clue what is wrong, I installed them correctly. I heard somewhere, somebody said that these are only single channel and that I need an adaptor or something. Im not sure. So does that mean I need to buy some adaptors and two more. Im so confused, all help will be greatly be appreciated.


----------



## Mphile

IIRC think you need 4 OPA627's, along with 2 adapters for installing 2 OPA627's in each (for 2 channels)

 I was about to get the 627's as well, but the adapters n all swayed me away from them


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Mphile* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hello,

 I was wondering what the differences are between OPA2277P, OPA2277PA, OPS2277PAG4 and OPA2277PG4. All are DIP-8 sockets, boasting the same specs. 

 Confused_

 

In many cases they will have the same specs because they are basically the same chip. Somtimes these codes denote no lead, temperature ratings, package type. They usually vary from company to company so you would have to check the spec sheets. To see exactly what each letter in the coding represents. 

 Hope that helps.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dextersventures* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ordered two opa627ap to put into my asus xonar stx card for my headphone listening. When I put them into the card, the headphone volume is so very low and it distorts a little. I only bought two of them, one for each slot for the headphones. I have no clue what is wrong, I installed them correctly. I heard somewhere, somebody said that these are only single channel and that I need an adaptor or something. Im not sure. So does that mean I need to buy some adaptors and two more. Im so confused, all help will be greatly be appreciated._

 

I answered this in another thread. The OPA627's are single channel opamps and the circuit requires dual channel units. If you have DIP8 you will not be able to use themin the circuit without some handy work.
 You need the smaller SOIC8 chips mounted on the adapters, these fit fine and work in this circuit.
 You could get the dual DIP8 adapter and use the 627 for a buffer opamp, if your using line out.


----------



## johnzz4

I have been running the stock op amps and have found the highs to be fatiguing. I'm running the Presonus HP4 as my amp and the HD650's.

 Any recommendations on an op amp combination to smooth out the highs, maintain the bass, and widen the soundstage?


----------



## garbulky

I am about to buy an essence STX or an ST. A few burning questions affecting my purchase decision. I am going to be using an Emotiva UPA-2 2X amplifier for my axiom speakers when they come. This amplifier does not have a volume control and requires a pre-amp. Will the essence be able to act as this pre-amp? AFAIK the UPA-2 requires 1.4V to to be driven to maximum power with an input impedance of 47k ohms. 
 Second question: Can I use the H6 add-on board with the STX as well? My impression is that the H6 is PCI-e only right? That's the reason I want to go for the ST as I have only one free PCI-e slot available on my current mother board.
 Third question: If I buy the ST, will PCI slots be obsolete in about 3-5 years when I upgrade my motherboard? Is it on its way out already?


----------



## dex85

1. ST/STX can act as a preamp since they have variable outputs. they put out 2.16V when set to 100%.

 2. only with ST, if they are available. last time i heard they were hard to get, but that could have changed.

 3. no, at least some motherboards manufacturers will keep PCI alive for next 8+ years. even if that meant they would have to put an additional chip on the motherboard.


----------



## johnzz4

I see that some people are putting the LME49710HA in the buffer instead of the LME49720HA... Should I order the 49710 now? I thought we needed 2-channel in the buffer??


----------



## KingFiercer

I'm thinking about what better for buffer with 2xLME49720NA - 49720NA or 49720HA?
 Some peopels say that 49720HA have good bass, but muffed treble... But what will the result of their combination?


----------



## garbulky

Thanks for the info Dex. I will most probably buy the Essence ST then. I've been searching for the answers to my questions for a couple of weeks and I was stumped! I had no idea a PC sound card can act as a preamplifier! 

 Two more questions, if I may, if I put the line out to my headphone amplifier (Xenos 3HA) and then to my stereo amplifier. Will I be damaging the amplifier if the voltage goes to high or will I actually be helping to enhance the dynamics (just like in a headphone) and produce better sound? 

 Second: I want to hook up the line out to my speakers (via amplifier). I also want to use my headphones at the same time and use the xenos 3ha to amplify the signal and not the inbuilt amp on the essence. Is there anyway to hook my headphone amp to the headphone out and sort of disable the inbuilt amp so I can run my headphone amplifier? Or is it safe to set it to low impedance output and then use my headphone amplifier anyway.Will that affect the sound quality?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *garbulky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for the info Dex. I will most probably buy the Essence ST then. I've been searching for the answers to my questions for a couple of weeks and I was stumped! I had no idea a PC sound card can act as a preamplifier! 

 Two more questions, if I may, if I put the line out to my headphone amplifier (Xenos 3HA) and then to my stereo amplifier. Will I be damaging the amplifier if the voltage goes to high or will I actually be helping to enhance the dynamics (just like in a headphone) and produce better sound? _

 

No, both cards lien outputs, operate on standard line level voltages. Even if the card is fully cranked it is still within line level specs so it will not damage anything. If you conencted the HP out to the amplifer and then cranked that you could possibly damage the input section on the amp.
  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *garbulky* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Second: I want to hook up the line out to my speakers (via amplifier). I also want to use my headphones at the same time and use the xenos 3ha to amplify the signal and not the inbuilt amp on the essence. Is there anyway to hook my headphone amp to the headphone out and sort of disable the inbuilt amp so I can run my headphone amplifier? Or is it safe to set it to low impedance output and then use my headphone amplifier anyway.Will that affect the sound quality?_

 

You can driver another headphone amplifer with the HP out of the Essence, others have tried it. Just make sure you keep the Gain low on the Essence.
 I would recommend that you use the line outs to your can amp though.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *johnzz4* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I see that some people are putting the LME49710HA in the buffer instead of the LME49720HA... Should I order the 49710 now? I thought we needed 2-channel in the buffer??_

 

ROBSCIX made the adapter for me with two of us on there. Is quite nice.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LME49710HA seems to be a great buffer amp for these cards.

 @Johnzz4, you're right. Every socket on the STX/ST requires dual channel opamps.
 To use the LME49710 HA requires an adapter, a dual To-99 to dip 8.


----------



## dex85

Garbulky: Rob has answered your questions, i just might add that i would connect the line-outs of ST/STX straight to your power amp, if you listen mostly to the speakers. your headphone amplifier is not really meant to be used as a pre-amp for the speakers (2x 3.5mm output jacks meant for headphones). the less components in the signal path the better. 

 on the other side, analog volume pot is more convenient than software based volume control. be careful at first with Xenos volume pot, to see how loud signal you will get when soundcard is set 100%. and you can use Xenos out of the headphone output of ST/STX, it will be Xenos driving the headphones, only sound can have a little different flavor compared to line-outs. it's up to your likings, keep experimenting


----------



## garbulky

Thank you to both Robscix and dex. You guys give out some great information. VERY VERY helpful and very specific. You both might laugh, but I went to radioshack with these questions and they hadn't a CLUE. 
 I will connect the line out (RCA) to my power amplifier and then if the xenos amp has better dynamics connect the headphone out at low impedance to the xenos. Or if the HP out on the essence is indeed better I shall just directly connect my headphones to the HP out. Fantastic. 
 Unless the quality becomes remarkably better, I would refrain from hooking the line-out to my Xenos. This is because I would have to switch the output from headphone amp to power amplifier often. But, I do value good quality headphone audio so if the difference is quite significant I shall do just that.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Well this type of information can be very specific especially for a salesmen. Some know their electnroics and basic audio standards and other just sell the gear!
 Not to mention many of us have used similar system at one time or another. PC soudncards can be connected to pretty much any other consumer electronics goods because they are bult to line level standards. Cards with can amplifer would be the exception as driving an amplifer using another amplifer is not really recommended although can be done if you're carful.

 Test it out and let us know how it goes.


----------



## ManuLM

has someone ever tested AD797 in lieu of the JRC's (using DIP adapter) on the STX ? 

 Did'nt see this combination posted in the first post of the thread 

Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version (p/n 021001)


----------



## gurubhai

Hi, Rob

 I was reading up on linux drivers for STX & stumbled on this :

  Quote:


 In addition to control over the amp, control has also been added for the DAC, including the ability to switch from a sharp to slow roll-off, and also alter the oversampling rate from 64x to 128x. 
 

ASUS' Xonar STX Gains Even More Functionality Under Linux - Techgage

 Is there any plans from ASUS to provide these feature in the official upcoming drivers.
 or do I have to shift to linux ?


----------



## leeperry

hehe, 128X oversampling...I've only been whining for this for almost a year 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this card would deserve a second chance on Linux, fit w/ some nice Burson's...and w/o all the resampling crapola in the windows drivers


----------



## gurubhai

^^that's what I was thinking, that even you would be tempted if we get access to those hardware features


----------



## touccer

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Rob

 I was reading up on linux drivers for STX & stumbled on this :


ASUS' Xonar STX Gains Even More Functionality Under Linux - Techgage

 Is there any plans from ASUS to provide these feature in the official upcoming drivers.
 or do I have to shift to linux ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

These options, along with the headphone impedance, have been available on the Windows driver since the Essence STX launch, but finally, audiophiles and audio enthusiasts alike can finally gain a bit more control under Linux.


----------



## gurubhai

he meant for the amp options, the options for controlling DAC are only in the linux drivers.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *gurubhai* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi, Rob

 I was reading up on linux drivers for STX & stumbled on this :


ASUS' Xonar STX Gains Even More Functionality Under Linux - Techgage

 Is there any plans from ASUS to provide these feature in the official upcoming drivers.
 or do I have to shift to linux ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Very interesting. I can check and see what I can find.
 The latest Betas sound very good and offer autosample rate adjustment that many asked for.
 They are still rather new so things may still change and options may be added for the final version.
 These Linix drivers were developed by a 3rd party also...


----------



## KingFiercer

I'll ask in another way. Is 49720HA better than 49720NA?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'll ask in another way. Is 49720HA better than 49720NA?_

 

It is different, the TO-99 are the highest grade of opamps within a family of opamps.


----------



## KingFiercer

Thanks. I'll try it TO-99.


----------



## ManuLM

Robscix, 
 any clue if we could get schematics of the card, even partial (around buffers, so that we better assess how to amp roll ... ). 
 I have in mind to test the AD797, but this is not straight forward ...


----------



## jalyst

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very interesting. I can check and see what I can find.
 The latest Betas sound very good and offer autosample rate adjustment that many asked for.
 They are still rather new so things may still change and options may be added for the final version.
 These Linix drivers were developed by a 3rd party also..._

 

I knew the Linux devs would come through! 

 Rob what came of this?
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/xo...ml#post6409866
 Did you find out any interesting tidbits in relation to Linux dev?

 Any plans for closed dvr binaries or will we have to continue to rely on the the wonderful work of Mr Clemens?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Robscix, 
 any clue if we could get schematics of the card, even partial (around buffers, so that we better assess how to amp roll ... ). 
 I have in mind to test the AD797, but this is not straight forward ..._

 

I seriously doubt that as they would be property of ASUS. I would suggest you trace the circuit out and make not of component values. Opamps circuits are usually very generic in design and can be traced. With opamps on soundcards you are alays trying to find a best fit but it is hard for some as they don't know, the swing of the amps, the gian of the circuit the feedback circuit...etc. The more infomraiton you can figure out the better. Really if you found a set of opamps you really liked, you could go one step further and dial in the circuit a bit more by modifying the circuit a bit. This is out of the realm of many though... The AD797 works fine in the buffer, if that is what you are asking.


----------



## ManuLM

understood, and quite expectable...

 For AD797, I wanted to use them on the I/V, I have not read so far that this is compatible, thus my idea. Il will investigate this myself.

 I'm not sure of the result when using AD797 as buffer


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have not tested them as I/V and they can be a bit touchy in some circuits. I have used them for buffer on this card though.


----------



## sokolov91

I am really confused.. I thought I/V was only for the head amp, and the other one was for the RCA out? I am reading about people talking about the third one affecting the I/V...

 Is there any unanimous decision on which one is best for RCA out?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I am really confused.. I thought I/V was only for the head amp, and the other one was for the RCA out? I am reading about people talking about the third one affecting the I/V...

 Is there any unanimous decision on which one is best for RCA out?_

 


 The I/V affects both the headphones and line outs. The buffer is used only for the line outs.

 When in headphone mode the buffer opamps is removed from the circuit and replaced by the headphone amplifer.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The I/V affects both the headphones and line outs. The buffer is used only for the line outs.

 When in headphone mode the buffer opamps is removed from the circuit and replaced by the headphone amplifer._

 

Oh ok thanks very much. 

 Would 3x 49720NA be a good/ the best way to start for op amp rolling? As my question probably told you I have very little electrical knowledge, and 0 soldering skills  so the HA will have to wait.


----------



## kumaiti

Is it possible to route the Analog input directly to the amp, bypassing ADC > DAC conversion? Has anyone tried this in order to use the built-in AMP as a kind of "standalone amp"?


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Is it possible to route the Analog input directly to the amp, bypassing ADC > DAC conversion? Has anyone tried this in order to use the built-in AMP as a kind of "standalone amp"?_

 

Don't take this as the final answer, but I highly doubt it... using it as a stand alone amp is a pretty poor idea IMO.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *sokolov91* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_ using it as a stand alone amp is a pretty poor idea IMO._

 

Why? Could you elaborate on that?


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Why? Could you elaborate on that?_

 

Because if all you need is an amp, you could put that 200$ towards something more substantial. The 200$ the STX costs gets you a hell of a lot for hi-fi, but that is only if you are using all of its features. 

 the amp I use LittleDot Mark V is much better than the one in the card, and costs like 279.99. So, if you don't need the D/A converstion, I would suggest another option.


----------



## kumaiti

I don't plan to use it exclusively as an amp, of course. I just want to know if it is possible, it would add to the overall value of the card to my personal needs.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I don't plan to use it exclusively as an amp, of course. I just want to know if it is possible, it would add to the overall value of the card to my personal needs._

 

I really don't think so, but robsix certainly will and answer sooner or later.


----------



## kumaiti

He is probably getting annoyed with my pesky questions about features that nobody else uses.


----------



## sokolov91

Hahaha who knows. 

 And even if the card could not be a stand alone amp, it is not hard to get everything on your computer, except LP's of course. And, unless you have $$ for a stand alone DAC or CDP, it is a pointless feature anyways, as the STX will cream any budget CDP or DAC.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_He is probably getting annoyed with my pesky questions about features that nobody else uses._

 

Not at all.. It is a common feature and really all you would be doing is real-time monitoring of the input. I already answered this question in another thread.
 I am guessing you are worried about latency for input from a game console?
 Anyway, yes you would be able to monitor the line input with next to no latency. However, if you added effects and run the signal through the card that is a different story.
 Between the question on here and the ones I get through email, PM..etc I am always answering questions from somebody..so I am used to it.
 I try to help when I can.


----------



## KingFiercer

Can anyone tell about using of *OPA627* in Asus STX? They are well suited for I/V and Buffer? I'm thinking about purchase and installation of 3 pairs of twin soic OPA627.
 Soon I will use an external amplifier, so the poor work in the HP-out is not critical... Some people argue that their bandwidth 55V/ms does not fit well with bandwidth of TPA6120A2 (1000V/ms).


----------



## leeperry

the higher grade OPA627BP is only available as DIP8, so you may wanna use those as final buffer at least..there isn't enough room to fit the adapters as I/V on the STX/ST.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is a common feature and really all you would be doing is real-time monitoring of the input. I already answered this question in another thread._

 

not really.

 I know I can simply put a tick on a little box on Windows 7 "recording devices" and listen to whatever is coming to that input.

 I suppose that happens this way:

 Analog input > ADC > sound processor > DAC > amp > headphone

 What I am curious here (and in the other thread too) is if there is any way to trick the soundcard to do this:

 Analog Input > Amp > headphone
 bypassing digital-analog conversion and the sound processor altogether.


 Though it is just academic curiosity at this point. In fact, I will be able to test it myself soon.


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_not really.

 I know I can simply put a tick on a little box on Windows 7 "recording devices" and listen to whatever is coming to that input.

 I suppose that happens this way:

 Analog input > ADC > sound processor > DAC > amp > headphone

 What I am curious here (and in the other thread too) is if there is any way to trick the soundcard to do this:

 Analog Input > Amp > headphone
 bypassing digital-analog conversion and the sound processor altogether.


 Though it is just academic curiosity at this point. In fact, I will be able to test it myself soon._

 

I tried it, i used Musiland 02 and tried the line in/mic of STX bypassing its DAC but the sound had a very high noise floor and it had a lot of hissing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Can anyone tell about using of *OPA627* in Asus STX? They are well suited for I/V and Buffer? I'm thinking about purchase and installation of 3 pairs of twin soic OPA627.
 Soon I will use an external amplifier, so the poor work in the HP-out is not critical... Some people argue that their bandwidth 55V/ms does not fit well with bandwidth of TPA6120A2 (1000V/ms)._

 

The 627 work fine for I/V on these cards. You will have to use SOIC versions.
 They are single channel so you require two for each I/V socket.
 To note, the 637 will not work for I/V if you had your eyes on those.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I tried it, i used Musiland 02 and tried the line in/mic of STX bypassing its DAC but the sound had a very high noise floor and it had a lot of hissing._

 


 How did you bypass the DAC?


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How did you bypass the DAC?_

 

the input from Musiland 02 was analog, so analog in analog out.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_the input from Musiland 02 was analog, so analog in analog out._

 

That doesn't necessarily mean that the ADC > processor > DAC was bypassed.


 Anyway, you had a lot of noise from a simple analog in > analog out? That would be a MAJOR showstopper to me.

 Do you have that problem only with the musiland or with any analog input?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Don't you have the ST card there now?
 Run some tests and let us know..


----------



## kumaiti

Not yet. At work for 8 more hours.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not yet. At work for 8 more hours._

 

Well atleast you will have something to do when you get home. When you bought the ST, did you see the H6 there?
 I know they have been seen in various places but are still scarce in many locations.


----------



## kumaiti

No H6 at all.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No H6 at all._

 

IIRC, when you connect up a device to the line input you will have to adjust the level in the recording mixer. Under the fader, there will be a button for monitor. This will allow you to monitor the signal on that input.
 Hope that helps.


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That doesn't necessarily mean that the ADC > processor > DAC was bypassed.


 Anyway, you had a lot of noise from a simple analog in > analog out? That would be a MAJOR showstopper to me.

 Do you have that problem only with the musiland or with any analog input?_

 

when a DAC (digital to analog converter) is not fed a digital signal, what does it do?


----------



## wali

Here is a crazy question:

 Would I be able to run two STXs in the computer, simultaneously?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Here is a crazy question:

 Would I be able to run two STXs in the computer, simultaneously?_

 

No, The driver would probably conflict.


----------



## germanium

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_That doesn't necessarily mean that the ADC > processor > DAC was bypassed.


 Anyway, you had a lot of noise from a simple analog in > analog out? That would be a MAJOR showstopper to me.

 Do you have that problem only with the musiland or with any analog input?_

 

While monitoring is allowed on the Essense STX for example the quality of the direct monitoring when monitoring through the soundcard driver monitoring function can be reduced as it is on the STX. It is 16 bit with no dither on the STX. 16 bit & no dither = massive distortion at very low levels. 

 Using the listen tab in the recording sound properties tab for the line in with everything set for 24 bit audio results in the best quality monitoring. this is full 24 bit monitoring. if there is excess noise when monitoring through the listen tab then you did not have everything set to 24 bit audio. if anything is set to 16 bit audio that is active in the audio chain & you are using the monitoring though the listen tab the audio is 16 bit with dither which is noisy but has less distortion than than without dither.


----------



## KingFiercer

Can someone briefly tell the difference in sound between the OPA627 and LME49720NA?
 I appreciate the 49720 for clear low/middle ang good detail. OPA627 will not be worse in this?


----------



## Bojamijams

OPA627 is a single channel opamp


----------



## KingFiercer

Heh, I konw. I'm talking about twin soic OPA627AU with adapter-to-dip8.
 Interesting difference between sounding.


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, The driver would probably conflict._

 

How about STX and ST combo? lol


----------



## applegd

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How about STX and ST combo? lol_

 

I ran this test couple weeks ago. Here are the details.
 (STEP 1) Install ST card into my Win7 PC.
 (STEP 2) Load driver and Xonar Audio Center SW for ST.
 (STEP 3) Launch the Xonar ST Audio Center, everything working fine.
 (STEP 4) Install STX card into same PC.
 (STEP 5) Load driver and Xonar Audio Center SW for STX.
 (STEP 6) Launch the Xonar STX Audio Center, everything working fine.
 (STEP 7) Try to launch the Xonar ST Audio Center, the Xonar STX Audio Center always come up.

 The conclusion is ASUS does not expect you to install both ST and STX into same PC.


----------



## leeperry

it's true for the whole Xonar family...xbitlabs wanted to run a D2 and a STX simultaneously, no go! it's the same driver for the whole Xonar serie(only the .inf/.bmp change) and it's not multi-client.

Two in One: Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound Card Review (page 4) - X-bit labs
  Quote:


 I did not succeed in trying to install two Xonar series cards


----------



## KingFiercer

After reading a lot of forum pages, I came to the conclusion that I should only purchase LME49710HA to existing favorite LME49720NA in I/V, and I'll get excellent sound quality in the line-out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 OPA627, as I understand, have a softer sound, but I like strong and heavy music, so I think do not even try them.


----------



## zeromacro

I'm having problems installing drivers for the STX. I have windows 7 installing 32bit drivers for it. 

 Problems: 
 1. When agreeing to terms at beginning of installation all characters are in ??? marks
 2. Installation gets stuck when progress bar is all the way to the end. 

 Can anybody help?

 Edit: Fixed the problem


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *applegd* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I ran this test couple weeks ago. Here are the details.
 (STEP 1) Install ST card into my Win7 PC.
 (STEP 2) Load driver and Xonar Audio Center SW for ST.
 (STEP 3) Launch the Xonar ST Audio Center, everything working fine.
 (STEP 4) Install STX card into same PC.
 (STEP 5) Load driver and Xonar Audio Center SW for STX.
 (STEP 6) Launch the Xonar STX Audio Center, everything working fine.
 (STEP 7) Try to launch the Xonar ST Audio Center, the Xonar STX Audio Center always come up.

 The conclusion is ASUS does not expect you to install both ST and STX into same PC._

 

Thanks.


----------



## johnzz4

Just tried a few op amps and settled on the 49720HA's on adapters in the IV and the one of the stock JRE's in the buffer. Sounds great....

 Also tried different combinations with OPA2227 and OPA2137P, and finally LM6172IN. Couldn't get it to sound quite right. The 49720HA's in the IV with the OPA2227 in the buffer was second best, but there was something weird with the 4kHz range.


 Not sure if anyone else experienced this, but regardless of where I put the OPA2137P's it got distortion as soon as I started to turn up the line level a bit (definitely not over doing it). Tried a different OPA2137P just in case it was a defect. Same thing... Didn't have this problem with any of the other op amps.

 Good luck... I'm happy for now!


----------



## 8-bit thief

I just tried switching out the LM4562 with the LT1364 in the buffer and keeping the stock JRC's in the IV, bad combo with my AD900's, the vocals were brought out too much especially the male vocals, there was extreme sibilance in the male vocals, I had to put the stock LM4562 back after just an hour because I couldn't stand it.

 There were some things I did like about it though, like the OPA series of opamps (opa2228, opa2604 etc) the LT1364 has toned down treble compared to the LM4562 but unlike the OPA's there was no loss in detail, so if you're a detail freak that wants to tone down their treble the LT1364 is a good thing to consider. 

 Another thing I liked is the soundstage, with the LM4562 music always sounds like it's coming from behind me or from the side, with the LT1364 music was coming from the back, the sides as well as the front, the soundstage wasn't as wide however so it's kind of a trade off, overall I preferred the LT1364's SS for making me feel like I'm more surrounded by music.


----------



## KingFiercer

Anybody help - which adapter should I use to connect 2 single-DIP chips? Where can I get one?


----------



## dikvertin

KingFiercer. Переходники на любой вкус. Можно с пайкой. Заказывал и оч доволен. качество отличное!
Ïåðåõîäíèêè äëÿ ÎÓ è äðóãèõ ìèêðîñõåì. Øèðîêèé âûáîð. - Ôîðóì Âåãàëàá
 Переходники для ОУ и других микросхем. Широкий выбор.


----------



## kumaiti

I have been looking for something like that and Yandex didn't help at all. Tnx, Dikvertin.


----------



## kumaiti

For the STX users still following the thread:

 Did you try any high-impedance headphones? Did you notice any improvement when using them?

 The guy from xbit-labs mentioned by the end of his review that he expected the sound to be better with a higher-impedance headphone, but didn't test it.


 Say you have a 32ohm headphone, would it be worth to increase the impedance using a mod like this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/mak...r-cable-28100/


----------



## ROBSCIX

Many around here use high impedance headphones. This is why some bought the card because the can amp supports phones up to 600 ohm in impedance.
 For many can amplifiers, their distortion measurments can vary as a function of impedance. If you understand what I mean..


----------



## kumaiti

I was looking for a more "practical" answer. Looking at a table of Distortion VS impedance doesn't say much about sound quality unless you are some kind of sound engineer or extremely experienced.

 But thanks anyway.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I doubt you would notice a major increase or decrease in sound quality using say 32ohm cans over 300 ohm cans using the same source. Atleast I have never heard it talked about as if it is a topic of concern.


----------



## ManuLM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anybody help - which adapter should I use to connect 2 single-DIP chips? Where can I get one?_

 

Are you looking for this:
Single-to-dual Op-AMP Adapter - DIP version (p/n 021001)


----------



## KingFiercer

Thanks *ManuLM*, this is it. =)
*dikvertin*, спасибо, у него на 25 баксов и наберу, наверно...


----------



## ROBSCIX

That adapter will work for the buffer on the STX but you cannot use it for I/V as the adapter is too large. There are ways to use OPA627's for I/V though.


----------



## wali

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_For the STX users still following the thread:

 Did you try any high-impedance headphones? Did you notice any improvement when using them?

 The guy from xbit-labs mentioned by the end of his review that he expected the sound to be better with a higher-impedance headphone, but didn't test it.


 Say you have a 32ohm headphone, would it be worth to increase the impedance using a mod like this:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/mak...r-cable-28100/_

 

Which headphone you're using? I ask that because if you know its maximum power input number you can use the 64-300ohms setting... With a load of 32ohms the 64-300ohms setting of STX outputs ~390mw. if the maximum power input of your headphone is above that number you can try it. 

 But, its your call.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


 Which headphone you're using? 
 

Nothing really worth mentioning yet. I am undecided between getting an ATH AD900, ATH AD700 or an AKG K601, the latter having a much much higher impedance than the first two.

 That is why I am curious about the practical sound improvement with a high-impedance headphone.


----------



## wali

Get the AKG701 instead if you already have a STX/ST, or either HD580/HD600/HD650.


----------



## ManuLM

I have not managed to find good OA for the K701. So far all I heard was too harsh for the K701. I also believe not feeding enough current to get a good bass base, my take on this is this is a hard limitation from the headamp I/C (TPA6120A2).
 What I/V do you have in mind for the K701?

 BTW Robscix, any investigations/attempts so far to change the TPA6120A2  ? Or is my analysis wrong on current limitation? 

 Edit: from TPA6120A2 datasheet, my analysis seems wrong (output current 700mA max... ). But then why such a result on K701?


----------



## Zac.R

Hi Guys - as you can see I'm new to Head-Fi. I have been reading the forum for a while and decided to join.

 I know that this has almost certainly been discussed in the past, but as I am at work, I don't have a lot of time to search the forum, so I will ask here, if someone could give me some input that would be great...

 I currently run my HD 650's through the Xonar STX - I use the 300 - 600db setting. With this setting I only need my volume control set at low values for the listening volume to be very loud (15 - 20%). My question is - should I drop my setting down to the 64 - 300db - am I doing any damage to my 650's as they are obviously 300ohm cans.

 Thanks.

 Edit: obvioulsy it should be ohm where I have put db - getting my gains and impedences mixed up


----------



## ManuLM

no damage to expect... your hd650 will be safe in both cases

 do what your ears tells you, and use the gain setting that sounds best to your ears


----------



## KingFiercer

Turn back 4562 into buffer (with 49720NA in I/V) and listen to it all night.
 Several times compared with HP-out, and the first Line-out sounds really better...
 More transperent, better sense of space, details can be heard even better.
 Music sounds a bit "lighter", soundstage wider - sometimes sounds come from afar. The most easy and pleasant combination, which I heard. Excellent for listening quiet music.

 So 4562 should not be discounted. =) Really interesting sound.


----------



## Zac.R

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_no damage to expect... your hd650 will be safe in both cases

 do what your ears tells you, and use the gain setting that sounds best to your ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

Well the highest gain setting sounds better to me. Like the 650s are being pushed to where they should be. It's damage to the driver that I am unable to detect that I am worried about. They certainly don't distort no matter how loud I put them though... :-D

 Btw, I have only had my 650's and STX for 3 weeks, so I am in love and in my honeymoon phase :-D


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Turn back 4562 into buffer (with 49720NA in I/V) and listen to it all night.
 Several times compared with HP-out, and the first Line-out sounds really better...
 More transperent, better sense of space, details can be heard even better.
 Music sounds a bit "lighter", soundstage wider - sometimes sounds come from afar. The most easy and pleasant combination, which I heard. Excellent for listening quiet music.

 So 4562 should not be discounted. =) Really interesting sound._

 

Many have taken the LME4562NA idea and went further up the ladder to the Dual LME49710HA module. Dual metal cans and just about the top of that opamp family. I always prefered the line out on the STX/ST....the measurments for the line out are somewhat better also.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *wali* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Get the AKG701 instead if you already have a STX/ST, or either HD580/HD600/HD650._

 

They are all way above my budget. The AD900 and K601 are already a stretch themselves.


 Also, from what I gather about the Senns, I won't like their sound.


----------



## [OverDrive]

@ManuLM:

 Hi dispiace per il mio inglese, ma italiana I'am.

 È possibile utilizzare per 701 thi OPamp in I / V:

 OPA2137P
 OPA2132P/PA
 OPA2277P/PA


----------



## Bmac

I noticed that Stereophile has finally put their review and measurements for the STX and ST online. It was on the cover of the December or January issue, making it the cheapest product ever to appear on their cover.

Stereophile: ASUS Xonar Essence ST/STX soundcards

 There are a few technical errors (like the number of op-amps in the output stage). The review doesn't go into extreme detail about the sound quality, but I think it's pretty accurate. He didn't swap any op-amps so the review is based on the stock op-amps only. 

 He compared the cards to an Ayre QB-9 and a Squeezebox and judged it to be between the two which agrees with my experience with my Squeezeboxes and more expensive DAC's.

 There are some interesting things to note in the measurements. The ST seemed to measure quite a bit worse than the STX, but they were in 2 different computers (the ST in an older XP environment, the STX in a new Vista box) so it isn't clear if those differences can be attributed to the cards themselves, the specific computers they were in or a combination of both.

 Still, many here have noted that the ST sounds better, but the reviewer didn't notice any such disparity and the ST measured worse in this instance. Maybe it comes down to the environment, where either card in a better environment with better hardware around it will outperform the other in a worse environment.

 The reviewer made no note of the ST having lower jitter than the STX, and he did measure both, so perhaps the extra clock in the ST isn't making as much of a difference as people think if any at all.

 The headphone amp measured pretty well, but had quite a bit higher THD on the highest gain setting compared to the lowest setting. I'm not sure if the distortion is audible, but many people here seem to prefer the highest gain setting, which seems like the exact opposite of what should be the case based on the measurements. I never noticed a difference in sound quality between the different gain settings, so always used the low or middle setting with my K701's because it was the most comfortable.


----------



## kumaiti

Please note that he used different computers to run each card.


----------



## kumaiti

One more little academic question: say that you have an "easy to drive" headphone. Do you think it would sound better from the line out?


----------



## Bmac

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bmac* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_...but they were in 2 different computers (the ST in an older XP environment, the STX in a new Vista box) so it isn't clear if those differences can be attributed to the cards themselves, the specific computers they were in or a combination of both._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kumaiti* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Please note that he used different computers to run each card._

 

As I pointed out.


----------



## kumaiti

Sorry about that, I think I skipped that paragraph...

 *shame*


----------



## Hordsak

Will I be able to take advantage of the DAC if I use the RCA outputs to my tube headphone amp? I was under the impression you can only get bit-perfect playback with coax or optical?

 I'm confused lol.


----------



## cschiu

i've done my best to search through this thread, but i've still got a couple of standing questions:

 1. don't care too much about asio or bit-matching. for simplicity i will be using itunes. under quicktime preferences for "play audio using," windows audio session is grayed out (due to my OS = W7 64-bit, if i've read up correctly), which means i've got to choose "safe mode" or "direct sound." does it matter? why the hell is it grayed out in the first place?
 2. am i correct to assume that QT sound out should match windows default format as well as xonar audio center settings? for me it would be 24-bit, 44.1kHz, stereo.
 3. exclusive mode in windows? yes/no on one or both check boxes?
 4. i understand that for low impedance headphones, the ST built-in amp ain't all that great. i have a CMOY portable amp coming in the mail. will the CMOY amp be of ANY benefit for my headphone out or for my line out to speakers for that matter? or will it just be redundant and make things worse? speakers are klipsch 2.1s and i've got a pair of grado rs1i's.

 thanks in advance guys.


----------



## Bojamijams

ROBSCIX, were you able to get an update on the ETA for the new STX driver?


----------



## Telix

Whoa, guys, I forgot I even made this thread many moons ago. I'll do my best to update the OP with what I find since I last checked in. I've updated it with what I've found on the last 8 pages or so.


----------



## zeromacro

Question about the output of the STX. The speaker output isn't amped is it? I'm feeding my K701 by STX speaker out to an external amp. So changing the opamps on the STX would have no effect for my case?


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about the output of the STX. The speaker output isn't amped is it? I'm feeding my K701 by STX speaker out to an external amp. So changing the opamps on the STX would have no effect for my case?_

 

Speaker output isn't amped no.

 But changing the op-amps will still have an effect. Op-amps don't mean that they're used as an Amplifier portion of the system.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Question about the output of the STX. The speaker output isn't amped is it? I'm feeding my K701 by STX speaker out to an external amp. So changing the opamps on the STX would have no effect for my case?_

 

They are not "speaker outputs" they are line-level outputs. They are meant to be connected to a preamp or a power amplifer. You can drive some headphones straight form the output sure.
 You can still change the opamps even if you are using the line outs.
 All 3 can be changed when using the line outputs.


----------



## ManuLM

Hi there, 

 Just mounted some AD797 as buffer, on top of a browndog adapter. 
 I still have the 49720NA as I&V. 
 First for placing the adapter you need a bit of care, since the caps around the final buffer are quite high (higher than the dip socket) and very close to the amp. A slow, carefull pressure can bent the caps such that they reach about the same heigth as the DIP socket. The rest is straight forward.

 For assembling back the cover, you have to bent it slightly. To avoid direct contact between the AD797 and the cover I inserted in between some ESD paper (cut out of the original package from the AD797).

 Everything back in the PC, turn on foobar, I listen to the result, using Ayo, gravity at last, which is a very nice recording. For listening, I have a Klipsch iFi 2.1 system connected to the line out. Straight out I could feel the wider spectrum extension. I like the deeper though tight bass, and a nice overall clarity. Hard to speak about soundstage, perception is so much different than a pair of cans.

 One point i find strange, I would like your feedback here: have you ever used volume beyond 50% ? As soon as I do it, I have clipped samples resulting in a scratch. Is this related to the max input of my speakers ?


----------



## ManuLM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *[OverDrive]* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_@ManuLM:

 Hi dispiace per il mio inglese, ma italiana I'am.

 È possibile utilizzare per 701 thi OPamp in I / V:

 OPA2137P
 OPA2132P/PA
 OPA2277P/PA_

 

I do not know about these. Some reports about 2137 in the first post, you may want to check it out


----------



## zeromacro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have not managed to find good OA for the K701. So far all I heard was too harsh for the K701. I also believe not feeding enough current to get a good bass base, my take on this is this is a hard limitation from the headamp I/C (TPA6120A2).
 What I/V do you have in mind for the K701?

 BTW Robscix, any investigations/attempts so far to change the TPA6120A2  ? Or is my analysis wrong on current limitation? 

 Edit: from TPA6120A2 datasheet, my analysis seems wrong (output current 700mA max... ). But then why such a result on K701?_

 

I agree with you on the harshness of the sound. I have the line-out of the STX fed to a Meier Corda Head five amp. The amp is actually quite warm and well suited for the K701 but since switching to source from on-board sound to STX the sound is way too harsh. Have you figured out on which opamps set to go with at all yet?


----------



## zeromacro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_They are not "speaker outputs" they are line-level outputs. They are meant to be connected to a preamp or a power amplifer. You can drive some headphones straight form the output sure.
 You can still change the opamps even if you are using the line outs.
 All 3 can be changed when using the line outputs._

 

Thanks for answering my question. Having said that what opamps would you recommend to make the sound a lot warmer? It sounds way too harsh at the moment even though my amp is quite warm sounding (Meier Corda Headfive).


----------



## leeperry

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the line-out of the STX fed to a Meier Corda Head five amp [..] the sound is way too harsh._

 

that's what a sub-par amp and an agressive digitis soundcard do...you could try getting a better amp and modding your card: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/as...dified-478473/

 I've owned the Corda Arietta and the ST/STX btw


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks for answering my question. Having said that what opamps would you recommend to make the sound a lot warmer? It sounds way too harsh at the moment even though my amp is quite warm sounding (Meier Corda Headfive)._

 

I find many of the Burr-Brown units are quite warm. Units such as the OPA2134, OPA827's, OPA2132..etc. You might want to start with a couple of the Burr-Brown units and test them out to see if you are getting closer to what your after. It really dpends on what you are looking for and what you hear right now. Some perceive the STX and ST as warm and other perceive them as bright. Your external gear also plays a part in the equation.


----------



## ManuLM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there, 

 One point i find strange, I would like your feedback here: have you ever used volume beyond 50% ? As soon as I do it, I have clipped samples resulting in a scratch. Is this related to the max input of my speakers ?_

 

anybody has a clue abt that ?


----------



## cschiu

no takers on my questions? i'm still trying to figure out QT and windows audio settings. and whether an external CMOY amp would be redundant with this card. any help, or even link to an existing thread would be much appreciated.

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *cschiu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_i've done my best to search through this thread, but i've still got a couple of standing questions:

 1. don't care too much about asio or bit-matching. for simplicity i will be using itunes. under quicktime preferences for "play audio using," windows audio session is grayed out (due to my OS = W7 64-bit, if i've read up correctly), which means i've got to choose "safe mode" or "direct sound." does it matter? why the hell is it grayed out in the first place?
 2. am i correct to assume that QT sound out should match windows default format as well as xonar audio center settings? for me it would be 24-bit, 44.1kHz, stereo.
 3. exclusive mode in windows? yes/no on one or both check boxes?
 4. i understand that for low impedance headphones, the ST built-in amp ain't all that great. i have a CMOY portable amp coming in the mail. will the CMOY amp be of ANY benefit for my headphone out or for my line out to speakers for that matter? or will it just be redundant and make things worse? speakers are klipsch 2.1s and i've got a pair of grado rs1i's.

 thanks in advance guys._


----------



## scutzi128

Does anyone know how you get national semiconductor to send a sample to students?


----------



## ManuLM

Send a mail to their sales contact I would say.


----------



## Bizarro

Just ordered two LT1028's. Those are single channel, right? So I need a single-to-dual adapter from cimmarontechnology.

 Has anyone tried NE5532? TI recommends NE5534 to I/V in PCM1792A datasheet.


----------



## zeromacro

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I find many of the Burr-Brown units are quite warm. Units such as the OPA2134, OPA827's, OPA2132..etc. You might want to start with a couple of the Burr-Brown units and test them out to see if you are getting closer to what your after. It really dpends on what you are looking for and what you hear right now. Some perceive the STX and ST as warm and other perceive them as bright. Your external gear also plays a part in the equation._

 

sorry for my lack of knowledge, but you only need the change one opamp (buffer opamp) for the line-out am I correct? And the ones you recommended would work just fine to replace it?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *zeromacro* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_sorry for my lack of knowledge, but you only need the change one opamp (buffer opamp) for the line-out am I correct? And the ones you recommended would work just fine to replace it?_

 


 No, for the line out you can change all three opamps.
 The JRC2114D are your differential input I/V converters. The LME4562NA is your single ended buffer.

 When you use the line out all three opamps are in use. When you switch to headphone mode the LM4562NA is replaced by the TPA6120A2 headphones amplifer chip.
 So if you are using headphone output you only need to change the I/V opamps.
 simply,
 For line out you can change all three
 For head out you only change the back two because the single ended buffer is not being used the can amp chip is.

 Don't worry about the questions, we all learn by asking questions. If you have any more questions post them somebody will answer you if they can.


----------



## KingFiercer

LME49710HA @NATS ñïðàâî÷íîå îïèñàíèå / ÝËÈÒÀÍ - Èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí ýëåêòðîííûõ êîìïîíåíòîâ
 It is true chip? =) Seen different versions of them, so interested in before buying.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_anybody has a clue abt that ?_

 

When you use your card with anything beyond 50% you get trouble?
 Are you using just the line outs or the amplified headphones output?
 I have to ask as I have seen people use this to drive their amplifiers.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_LME49710HA @NATS ñïðàâî÷íîå îïèñàíèå / ÝËÈÒÀÍ - Èíòåðíåò-ìàãàçèí ýëåêòðîííûõ êîìïîíåíòîâ
 It is true chip? =) Seen different versions of them, so interested in before buying._

 

They look similar but you will require two plus an adapter to use it on this card.


----------



## Razeus

I swear last week, I was at Fry's checking out this Asus product so I can have a sound card/headphone amp in my rig. All was good, but at $200 I figured I'd go online. All was good at the time, I was just spending the last week doing research and everything pointed to this being the card to get. So I go to Fry's today to give it a final look over, but they were out. No problem since I was going to buy it online anyway, but the most popular stores (Amazon and using Bing Cashback stores) are all out of them.

 Is there a new model in the works?


----------



## ROBSCIX

ASUS is coming out with a version in conjuction with Sennheiser. It would seem it is a card and headphone bundle. We are working on getting sneak peak, with specs and pictures etc..


----------



## ManuLM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_When you use your card with anything beyond 50% you get trouble?
 Are you using just the line outs or the amplified headphones output?
 I have to ask as I have seen people use this to drive their amplifiers._

 

This happens on the line out. I guess I may have introduced too much amplification with the 49720 and AD797. I also had the same before changing the final buffer.
 Saturation is quite clear, feeding a test signal like a triangle at 0dBFS generates a saturation very quickly. Below 40% no issues to report, it's as good as it gets.

 On the headset side impossible to tell, since the amp is already very loud at 40%, so if there is saturation, it does not harm since out of the "reasonnable" audible range.

 I wonder, side question, if you have looked at using the LT1028 on the STX? I'm getting addicted


----------



## 7764803

Hi. I have ASUS Essence ST + AKG K701 without amp, because i dont have enough money for quality amp. Please give me some advice for OPA to I/V section (only DIP8). I want more bass but no at the expense of mids and highs. And that sound will be more emotive. I like sound of K701 but lot of people say that with no stock OPA that go will be better. 
 And I have power suply DELTA 460W. I need better, like ENERMAX? I think more quality, not power. Will be sound better?
 THANK YOU, Sorry for my English


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, I doubt you would notice an improvment just changing to another internal PSU. The guys that notice changes from power supplies build external linear units. 
 Give me a bit to look through my opamp collection and give you some ideas.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *7764803* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi. I have ASUS Essence ST + AKG K701 without amp, because i dont have enough money for quality amp. Please give me some advice for OPA to I/V section (only DIP8). I want more bass but no at the expense of mids and highs. And that sound will be more emotive. I like sound of K701 but lot of people say that with no stock OPA that go will be better. 
 And I have power suply DELTA 460W. I need better, like ENERMAX? I think more quality, not power. Will be sound better?
 THANK YOU, Sorry for my English
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

hi fellow slovakian 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i used to listen to AKG K701 from STX's headphone amp and the LT1057 was working very well with them. it's tilted towards low frequencies so you should like it; compared to stock or 49720NA highs are not so biting and much more bearable in the long run. overall, very fun and involving presentation although it can't touch some op-amps in terms of transparency and transients response (little slow sounding). you should definitely try it with K701, it has its charms in the sleeves.

 on the other side, when combined with buffer or being in the buffer feeding my external amp, LT1057 was sounding very weird for some reason, regardless of what other op-amps i tried with it. but this don't apply to you. i'm sure ROBSCIX will give you some nice tips as well.

 if you're interested shoot me a PM and i can sell you 2x LT1057 for good price since i have no need for them anymore.


----------



## 7764803

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No I doubt you would notice an improvment just changing to another internal PSU. The guys that notice changes fomr power supplies build external linear units. 
 Give me a bit to look through my opamp collection and give you some ideas._

 

OK. I hope, that your ideas help me to find right opamps.


----------



## Vanusk

Anyone have experience with AD8620AR ?

 Also, I'm thinking of running 4x LME49710HA (dt990's, hp out) but I can't find the adapter anywhere for them.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Anyone have experience with AD8620AR ?

 Also, I'm thinking of running 4x LME49710HA (dt990's, hp out) but I can't find the adapter anywhere for them._

 

I have tested the AD8620's but I think they are the BR versions.
 The adapters are not the hard part, the trick is the adapters are too big to be used for I/V on this card without some other addition. Such as extension wires for the opamps which is not that good of an idea _these are used for larger discreet opamps. They will wor just fine for sloweropamps for high speed units you migth get unstabaility.
 Other then this you may be able to find some type of custom adapters.
 All the adapters I have seen and used for Dual TO-99 opamps such as the LME49710HA are wide. While they will work no problem for the buffer as you have more space.


----------



## Vanusk

Hmm, I think I'll just go with the 2x LME49720HA. Thanks


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hmm, I think I'll just go with the 2x LME49720HA. Thanks_

 

They fit just fine with adapters.


----------



## newvoice

anybody can compare this card with JULI@(for pure audio useage)?


----------



## raiser roofer

Hey all,

 First time poster here! I've been visiting this forum occasionally whenever I want to look up a purchase.

 I have this sound card and I LOVE it, but I think it can do better.

 I am using a pair of Grado SR-325i phones, and am using this card at "Normal Gain", although I am very tempted to up it one notch (how bad would this be?) Any suggestions for these headphones?

 Also, does anyone play games at: 8 channels (on the card and in Windows), Hi-Fi and DS3D GX? Any suggestions on that?


----------



## ManuLM

going to the next gain will simply make the card too loud. You better stay on the lowest gain.

 For gaming I use hifi, this is the sound I like best... Games do a great job in rendering


----------



## kumaiti

Since most of the opamp discussion on the ST/STX is happening here, this might be the best place to ask even though I have the ST:

 Which one would be better to get deeper, stronger bass without sacrificing too much in the mids?

 AD797AN
 or
 OPA2134PA

 I did read on the Guru3D review that the OPA2134 has a warmer sound than stock, which is what I am trying to achieve, but I am wondering if AD797AN is better.


----------



## leeperry

don't believe everything you read, OPA2134 is worthless.

 yes, try AD797B, it's good stuff...and it's supposed to be a drop-in replacement for LM4562 anyway.

 you could try this in the left socket: Dual to Mono Op amp module AD797BR - eBay

 it's been reviewed here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/aud...1/#post5238657


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_you could try this in the left socket:_

 


 What do you mean by "left socket"? Can I use different OPAMPS in those two i/v slots? I asked that in the ST thread, but since you mentioned it here...


----------



## leeperry

the left socket is only used for the line-out, it's a buffer of some sort...the 2 sockets on the right hand are the DAC I/V, always use the exact same opamps for I/V or you'll get stereo imbalance(or worse if you put 4 different single opamps on adapters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## kumaiti

Oh, you meant the buffer slot. Ok.

 Not really a good choice for me since I like to use Dolby Headphone often and that only works on the HP-out. 

 I am looking for something to replace the JRCs on the i/v.


----------



## leeperry

AD797/LT1028 would prolly work, but there's only one way to find out


----------



## ROBSCIX

Many in this thread had great results using the LME49720HA;s for the I/V. There are also many other suggestions for different opmp people have tried.


----------



## kumaiti

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Many in this thread had great results using the LME49720HA;s for the I/V. There are also many other suggestions for different opmp people have tried._

 

More than once I saw people mention "bright" and "tight but lean bass" about the 49720HA, which is exactly what I am trying to avoid. My AD900 would bleed my ears if I make the Essence brighter.


 Also, I asked about those opamps because they are readily available here. 90% of everything mentioned in this thread can't be found here. Of the remaining 10%, those two were the only ones I noticed people described as "warm" or "bassy". In fact, the 2134 I got from your review. How did you like that opamp?


----------



## ROBSCIX

It also depends on what type of headphones they are using. 

 The OPA2134 is a more warmer opamp so that might be a good choice for you. The OPA chips have the "Burr Brown" sound which means good bass and glossy highs.
 Maybe a pair of OPA2227 in the I/V. They have a very warm bassy sound.


----------



## Bojamijams

Hey ROBSCIX, any news on that STX driver which will finally have automating sample-rate switching?


----------



## Telix

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Bojamijams* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey ROBSCIX, any news on that STX driver which will finally have automating sample-rate switching?_

 

Same question here


----------



## ROBSCIX

There is some info floating around the site about a driver release coming around May but I cannot say for sure which version it will be.


----------



## Vanusk

I've got 2x LME49720HA's and the adapters for them, but I have no idea how to solder these things on.


----------



## ManuLM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hi there, 

 Just mounted some AD797 as buffer, on top of a browndog adapter. 
 I still have the 49720NA as I&V. 
 First for placing the adapter you need a bit of care, since the caps around the final buffer are quite high (higher than the dip socket) and very close to the amp. A slow, carefull pressure can bent the caps such that they reach about the same heigth as the DIP socket. The rest is straight forward.

 For assembling back the cover, you have to bent it slightly. To avoid direct contact between the AD797 and the cover I inserted in between some ESD paper (cut out of the original package from the AD797).

 Everything back in the PC, turn on foobar, I listen to the result, using Ayo, gravity at last, which is a very nice recording. For listening, I have a Klipsch iFi 2.1 system connected to the line out. Straight out I could feel the wider spectrum extension. I like the deeper though tight bass, and a nice overall clarity. Hard to speak about soundstage, perception is so much different than a pair of cans.

 One point i find strange, I would like your feedback here: have you ever used volume beyond 50% ? As soon as I do it, I have clipped samples resulting in a scratch. Is this related to the max input of my speakers ?_

 

update on this experiment: I finally had to remove the AD797A, some artefacts more and more present. Replacing them with the stock LM4562 solved the issue completely (also the early saturation problem).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I've got 2x LME49720HA's and the adapters for them, but I have no idea how to solder these things on._

 

You have to get some adapters to use them properly.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ManuLM* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_update on this experiment: I finally had to remove the AD797A, some artefacts more and more present. Replacing them with the stock LM4562 solved the issue completely (also the early saturation problem)._

 

Seems like the AD797 is not a good match for the stock circuit. What do you think this issue is?
 Many opamps will work better in these circuit is they are tweaked a bit.


----------



## Vanusk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You have to get some adapters to use them properly._

 

I have the adapters for the LME49720HA's. Do I need to get another set of different adapters?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I have the adapters for the LME49720HA's. Do I need to get another set of different adapters?_

 

No, if you have the TO-99 to DIP8 adapters then all you have to do is solder up the units.


----------



## Vanusk

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_No, if you have the TO-99 to DIP8 adapters then all you have to do is solder up the units._

 

The soldering gun I have is way too big for the job. I think I'll just bend the pins to make it fit :S


----------



## walsh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The soldering gun I have is way too big for the job. I think I'll just bend the pins to make it fit :S_

 

I used a large soldering gun and managed to get it on with a bit of effort. It's difficult but worth it because I think you get a better end product than when bending the pins.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The soldering gun I have is way too big for the job. I think I'll just bend the pins to make it fit :S_

 

I wouldn't advise that. A person awhile back did that after being told not to then proceeded to whine in the DIY thread about his opamps osciallting.

 Some guys do this for quick testing but if you want something that is meant for the long run, solder them on some quality adapters.

 You can buy cheap pencil soldering irons at local shops. If you can't do it send them to a person that can.


----------



## Vanusk

Haha yeah I think I just learned the hard way... not getting anymore audio.

 Maybe I can RMA it lol >_<


 Dunno what went wrong though, the pins were all connected in there. I only got sound out of the left channel though, and it was incredibly quiet. After repositioning the op amps again... yeah no more audio. But the card is still recognized and all that.

 :S


----------



## genclaymore

Try putting back the org op-amps to make sure, most likey you just damage the op-mp.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Try with the original opamps and if you get sound count yourself lucky. 
 USE ADAPTERS.


----------



## Vanusk

Yeah I'm only getting audio out of the left channel and it's super quiet. Also one of the metal prong things on one of the op amps sort of... fell off. Would it matter if I don't even put an op amp in the buffer if I'm using headphone out?


----------



## bearcatsandor

Hey folks,

 I read through this entire thread. I'm very interested in an ST now.

 I'm going to try building a D/A converter. I have a quad-core with 8 gigs of ram, running gentoo linux. I plan on purchasing a mini-itx board with an atom processor and an ST+HC 6 in it. What i'd like to do is process the digital audio and video in the quad-core then sent it over ethernet cable to the atom box and have the atom box sent it out of the soundcard into my amps (using jack-audio). The atom computer will be a custom D/A converter.

 Additionally, i'm want to run the atom computer from batteries. Does anyone know what power the ST requires to operate?

 I'm not sure how hard it will be to sync the video on the quad-core with the audio sent to the atom computer however.


----------



## ManuLM

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Vanusk* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yeah I'm only getting audio out of the left channel and it's super quiet. Also one of the metal prong things on one of the op amps sort of... fell off. Would it matter if I don't even put an op amp in the buffer if I'm using headphone out?_

 

Ifell like your headamp is dead ... If a pad jumped out, it actually blew up and is destroyed, so you need tochange it. Luckily it's on a socket.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearcatsandor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Additionally, i'm want to run the atom computer from batteries. Does anyone know what power the ST requires to operate?_

 

Well, if you call Asus on your lunch break you will first be told that the power consumption is 150 watts. After you pick your jaw off the floor (that's more power than your Q9300!), you'll call them again and ask to speak to tech support instead of pre-sales. There you will be told that it uses 25 - 50 watts and that attaching the H6 does not use up more power. That's a *bit* higher than you wanted given that it's 5x - 7x more than your atom processor you plan on using with it, but alright, i guess.

  Quote:


 I'm not sure how hard it will be to sync the video on the quad-core with the audio sent to the atom computer however. 
 

Well, read though the jack wiki. It looks like there is a way to sync two pcs using a software word-clock of sorts. You aren't sure yet though


----------



## bearcatsandor

Thanks Bearcat! You're awesome.


----------



## dex85

it's hard to believe that ST/STX could draw 25W. it should be significantly less, but i didn't do any measurements. maybe someone else did and will share with others. and yeah, 150W, that's just silly


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Been using my stx for awhile. If i eventually want to upgrade to a dedicated amp or usb DAC, would that more or less render my stx obsolete in terms of just listening to music?


----------



## walsh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fakeyfakerson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Been using my stx for awhile. If i eventually want to upgrade to a dedicated amp or usb DAC, would that more or less render my stx obsolete in terms of just listening to music?_

 

Not at all. The DAC is only part of the sound card. The rest of the card is very good quality and it will still be used during playback even when you are using an external DAC. And an amplifier can only add to the card, it will not replace any of the card's functions.


----------



## forciano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *walsh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Not at all. The DAC is only part of the sound card. The rest of the card is very good quality and it will still be used during playback even when you are using an external DAC. And an amplifier can only add to the card, it will not replace any of the card's functions._

 

I use my ST with an amp and I love it. Getting an amp makes more sense IMO...


----------



## niCe99

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *forciano* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I use my ST with an amp and I love it. Getting an amp makes more sense IMO..._

 

have you tried the headphone output versus the line out output?


----------



## ROBSCIX

You will find many are just using the DAC on the ST(X) cards as the DAC is very high quality. The headphone output is actually of lower quality then the line output.
 Many also have their favorite amplifiers already so they just use them.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *dex85* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_it's hard to believe that ST/STX could draw 25W. it should be significantly less, but i didn't do any measurements. maybe someone else did and will share with others. and yeah, 150W, that's just silly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_

 

I think it is too. I think perhaps that the person i was talking to was answering the question "What is the minimum power supply i should buy with this sound card?"

 Since i'm throwing this card in with a atom based board, power requirements are an issue. I'd like to keep them low.

 I'd love to know what the card draws though. Asus seemed confused by the question. You'd think "How much does x component use" would be a common question from system builders. However, i was told that the H6 drew no power from the pci-e slot (it's a 1x for what that matters) and got it's power from the ST.

 I'm still new to all this opamp stuff. Suppose i want to get some LME49860s for my ST. Would i get the LME49860MA/NOPB, LME49860MAX/NOPB or the LME49860NA/NOPB? Which would need adapters and which would not (and why). Would an given opamp work just as well in the I/V or the buffer (not musical preference wise, but board stability)?

 Is a given opamp going to affect the power-draw significantly?

 Does anyone know what opamps the H6 takes and in what positions?

 If no one answers the h6 question i'll call Asus on Monday and post their answers here.

 Thanks for your patience folks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The H6 is connected to the ST by the ribbon cable, this is where it draws the power from. The H6 has a PCI-X1 interface but there are no tracing on the interface it is just so the card has a support.


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You will find many are just using the DAC on the ST(X) cards as the DAC is very high quality. The headphone output is actually of lower quality then the line output.
 Many also have their favorite amplifiers already so they just use them._

 

So using line out (which bypasses the cards built in amp right?) with an external amp will sound about on par with a USB DAC + amp?


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The H6 is connected to the ST by the ribbon cable, this is where it draws the power from. The H6 has a PCI-X1 interface but there are no tracing on the interface it is just so the card has a support._

 

So i could just attach it to a card bracket in my case that was not being used (didn't have a slot under it) and not use up a pcie slot at all?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Fakeyfakerson* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So using line out (which bypasses the cards built in amp right?) with an external amp will sound about on par with a USB DAC + amp?_

 

Yes, when in line out mode, the headphones amplifer is bypassed. As for your USB DAC+Amp question....can't really answer that one. Not sure what unit your talking about.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearcatsandor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So i could just attach it to a card bracket in my case that was not being used (didn't have a slot under it) and not use up a pcie slot at all?_

 

Yes, you don't need to have the interface stuck in a slot, just helps for bracing the card. You can put the card in whatever slot you want or no slot.


----------



## forciano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *niCe99* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_have you tried the headphone output versus the line out output?_

 

Robscix already gave some insight on this. But I use the line out (check my signature), when i want to use dolby headphone then i switch to the headphone amp, and leave at 0 gain.


----------



## forciano

BTW Robscix, I'm thinking of adding another buffer to my collection.

 Any suggestions? =)


----------



## KingFiercer

*forciano* 
 Hello! I've ordered OPA627BP, AD747BRZ and LME49710HA for buffer... Now I have LME49720NA in I/V, and I'll try OPA627AU in I/V later.
 I'm interesting, how OPA827 sounds compare to OPA627? Is it more neutral? Can you describe this opamp a little?


----------



## forciano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *KingFiercer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_*forciano* 
 Hello! I've ordered OPA627BP, AD747BRZ and LME49710HA for buffer... Now I have LME49720NA in I/V, and I'll try OPA627AU in I/V later.
 I'm interesting, how OPA827 sounds compare to OPA627? Is it more neutral? Can you describe this opamp a little?_

 

I have not tried the OPA627's yet, perhaps Robscix or someone else can help you on that.

 All i have read so far indicates they are very similar soundwise.


----------



## dex85

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *bearcatsandor* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I'm still new to all this opamp stuff. Suppose i want to get some LME49860s for my ST. Would i get the LME49860MA/NOPB, LME49860MAX/NOPB or the LME49860NA/NOPB?_

 

you should be looking for dual DIP op-amps in case you don't want to use adapters. that is LME49860*N*A. 

  Quote:


 Would an given opamp work just as well in the I/V or the buffer (not musical preference wise, but board stability)? 
 

i think there were reports of people saying some op-amps were working fine at buffer but not at I/V (or vice versa, can't remember now). there are people that can tell by looking at specs of op-amps whether it's going to be stable in certain circuit, but i'm not one of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote:


 Is a given opamp going to affect the power-draw significantly? 
 

it shouldn't given it is stable.


----------



## Checkmated

Hey ROBSCIX,

 I have a Sennheiser HD800 sound card since August, and I don't have a dedicated amplifier. I owned a couple of LME49720NAs and LM6172, along with the Xonar Essence STX.

 I had been trying 2 X LME49720NA and 2 x LM6172, and I think non of them suit my taste, I think the treble is too high and the bass is too weak

 (Yeah I have set my sound card to output 300 - 600 Ohm range)

 Do you have any tips for me? Should I get a dedicated amplifier? I'm a beginner but I refuse to deal with tube amplifier though just because I don't have the space, and the patience to cook it everytime I want to listen something.

 (hell I might as well as leave the tube amplifier run 24/7 LOL, as my PC is running 24/7 non stop, not even sleep)


----------



## KingFiercer

*Checkmated*
 Now I'm using M^3 amplifier with HD 600, and same setup - 2xLME49720NA+LM6172IN.
 Sound is VERY nice, good bass, smooth treble, in general, the sound is soft and very pleasant. Really good sound for this cheap opamp.
 From headphone out 49720 sounds sharpy and a little bass-light, sound of 6172 in HP-out is terrible, imho.
 Use external amplifier with your HD800! Will be a huge difference, and finally appears SOUND.

 P.S.: Modes 64-300 and 300-600 have more wearying bass and trebble compared to 0-64 mode. Check it out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Checkmated* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey ROBSCIX,

 I have a Sennheiser HD800 sound card since August, and I don't have a dedicated amplifier. I owned a couple of LME49720NAs and LM6172, along with the Xonar Essence STX.

 I had been trying 2 X LME49720NA and 2 x LM6172, and I think non of them suit my taste, I think the treble is too high and the bass is too weak

 (Yeah I have set my sound card to output 300 - 600 Ohm range)

 Do you have any tips for me? Should I get a dedicated amplifier? I'm a beginner but I refuse to deal with tube amplifier though just because I don't have the space, and the patience to cook it everytime I want to listen something.

 (hell I might as well as leave the tube amplifier run 24/7 LOL, as my PC is running 24/7 non stop, not even sleep)_

 

Yes, I would use an external with the HD800's, perhaps some nice tubes?
 I am partial to tubes for various tasks. (I guess you don't like them) That is not to say I don't like solid state though.


----------



## viuhahtaja

Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I recently purchased a pair of Genelec 6010A and the subwoofer 5040A for my computer with listening to music (70%) and gaming (30%) in mind. Now I want to upgrade from the integrated crap to something that complements the speakers.
 I've read that this card is supposed to be amazing for stereo setups. Is it the way to go? I will not be using any headphones on this.


----------



## Checkmated

Quote:


 Checkmated
 Now I'm using M^3 amplifier with HD 600, and same setup - 2xLME49720NA+LM6172IN.
 Sound is VERY nice, good bass, smooth treble, in general, the sound is soft and very pleasant. Really good sound for this cheap opamp.
 From headphone out 49720 sounds sharpy and a little bass-light, sound of 6172 in HP-out is terrible, imho.
 Use external amplifier with your HD800! Will be a huge difference, and finally appears SOUND.

 P.S.: Modes 64-300 and 300-600 have more wearying bass and trebble compared to 0-64 mode. Check it out. 
 

Kewl! Thank you, I'm checking them out.


  Quote:


 Yes, I would use an external with the HD800's, perhaps some nice tubes?
 I am partial to tubes for various tasks. (I guess you don't like them) That is not to say I don't like solid state though. 
 

I'll still stick to solid states, the size is great and the convenience worth some trade off. I did test a decent solid state against a decent tube amp at a seminar on the HD650 and I don't find the tube have any significant better sound characteristic at all


----------



## forciano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Checkmated* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Kewl! Thank you, I'm checking them out.




 I'll still stick to solid states, the size is great and the convenience worth some trade off. I did test a decent solid state against a decent tube amp at a seminar on the HD650 and I don't find the tube have any significant better sound characteristic at all_

 

Not that I dont believe you but remember that the actual tubes are the ones that change the sound. So you have to make sure you are using good sounding tubes in order to get the most out of these amps.


----------



## bearcatsandor

What effect do power supplies have on the line out quality of the ST? I've been thinking of setting up a separate computer, dedicated to audio with an ST in it. This computer would be run off of batteries as i have heard (literally) that it helps audio components to isolate them from A/C.

 I would imagine that this has little to no effect on digital lines and lots of effects on analog (or analouge) line. So really the main effect would be to the D/A conversion itself. I also think this would have little effect on a sound card and a much greater effect on an amplifier?

 So, is it worth the expense of setting up such a system (around $200 of computer + about $600 for batteries and special electronics to control them etc) and not to mention the extra complication and hassle. I realize that's a value judgement, but how diminishing are my returns going to be by battery powering a ST. 

 Not worth it and just do that to my amps?

 Has anyone played with this?

 Thanks.


----------



## bearcatsandor

(deleted due to double post)


----------



## VISTREL

Got today the ST version, blew my Audigy 2 ZS away. Saved bunch of money on DAC & Amp without compromising the sound quality.


----------



## Razeus

I use the high gain setting for my Grado 225i's. I like they it brings out the sound over the normal gain. Is this a good thing for my cans? Will this damage them?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VISTREL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got today the ST version, blew my Audigy 2 ZS away. Saved bunch of money on DAC & Amp without compromising the sound quality._

 

Well that is the main point of this product, it is a very high quality DAC and amplifer for the PRICE. Will the onbaord amp compete with an amplifer that is high end and worth many timesmore then the card? No way!
 However, given the actual quality of both the DAC and the amplifier it is a very good deal. You can always use the DAC itself and add your own amplifer.


----------



## shane55

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *ROBSCIX* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Well that is the main point of this product, it is a very high quality DAC and amplifer for the PRICE. Will the onbaord amp compete with an amplifer that is high end and worth many timesmore then the card? No way!
 However, given the actual quality of both the DAC and the amplifier it is a very good deal. You can always use the DAC itself and add your own amplifer._

 

+1
 Yup. I compared the analog out of the STX to that of my DAC1-Pre being fed SPDIF or USB. I actually preferred the STX. The sound was smoother, warmer and seemed to have a better bottom end.

 JMHO

 shane


----------



## ROBSCIX

The STX improves with opamps upgrades.


----------



## levlhed

Hi there..
 whew! It took about two days but I finally read the whole thread.

 Just installed an STX into my music server. Setup is 2-ch STX going into a Dared SL-2000A preamp (2005 Auricap version) feeding a "Bob Latino" Dynaco VTA ST-70 (both with choice NOS tubes) powering a pair of Tekton Designs OB4.5 with the tweeter upgrade. The second line out of the preamp feeding a pair of Polk DSWmicroPRO2000 subs. I love many aspects of this setup. I chose the OB4.5's for their promise of a large SS and high level of detail and coherence esp. at lower volumes. They combine the desirable aspects of a single driver speaker and an open baffle design. The subs are dialed in just right to round out the bottom. The tube gear was purchased after much research into finding "affordable gems" and the subsequent tube-rolling roller coaster was an adventure that got rather expensive by the end! I've got a pile of all the usual "12AT7" suspects to prove it too.

 Up till now I've been just using a spare USB sound card (Audiotrak MAYA44 USB) I had left over from previous DJ rigs. Knowing this was the weak link, I've had my eye on an STX for awhile now. It wasn't until after I purchased it that I started looking into the whole opamp thing, which brought me to the thread.

 Of course my first impressions of the card with the stock opamps are very positive. A marked improvement over the USB card! However, my experience with tube rolling begs the questions of "what will make it even better?"

 In the process of reading this thread I managed to take a couple stabs @ getting some different chips making their way to me.
 I've got a couple LME4927NA's, 2x AD8620AR on adapters, and an LT1057CN8. I think the AD8620's were a misguided choice from some random post I found elsewhere. I think the 4927NA's will be right in the I/V position, but I'm still trying to determine what's going to be a best-guess for the buffer. (I use the line out only, no headphones)

 What am I after?
 I love the warm tube sound. But I know even within that there are many varying degrees. Overall I am after a more balanced, detailed (but not harsh/bright) sound with extension in all directions.
 I listen to electronic dance music almost exclusively. A clarity and control in the bass is crucial. Many people think that for rap/techno/etc you just want big bass, but I disagree. The fact that the music focuses so much on bass demands that area be under control and clean.
 Between the tubes and the Tekton's I've got plenty of oomph in the midrange, this area receives a lot of attention by their very nature. Because the midrange is accentuated, the clarity and detail that is fed to it is crucial as well. They are very revealing!
 Part of my grueling 12AT7-rolling was some attempts to tune the mids right, but also get the highs defined, clear, extended, but not harsh. With 3 different places to put the 12AT7 family in my setup you can only imagine the number of combinations and configurations I had to go through to get it "just right".

 My concern is only the the 4970NA's are going to throw too much out there on the highs and maybe make the mids a little too hard(?). I'm not too concerned with the bass being lower in apparent volume as long as it pulls it in nice and tight. The Polk subs have some more to offer in volume so I can easily dial them up a bit to compensate volume.

 I'm imagining I want a buffer that maybe "warms" the NA's, smooths out the highs and (if it's not too much to ask) pulls the bass back up without squashing the definition too.

 I'd thought maybe the LT1057CN8 was a good choice for the buffer, but further reading shows I should have maybe got the LT1057ACN8 (or was it CA), and that they it might not even be ideal in the buffer.

 Any other candidates?
 I can't see myself doing any soldering so sticking with DIP8 for now is necessary. I'm fine if this leaves out some of the better choices for now. I'm thinking just a little better sound out of the STX will be "enough" at this point. Just knowing I did *something* and got a sound I like better than stock should be enough for my ego ATM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I don't know if it means anything to most of you, the 12AT7 tubes I'm running are Telefunken ECC801S's in the preamp, a 1962 RCA 12AT7W in the middle voltage amp position of the ST70 and Siemens ECC801S Triple Mica's on the 2 phase splitter/inverters of the ST70. The ST70 is running Gold Lion KT-66's.
 Maybe if you know the general characteristics of their sound you can divine where my ears like to be....

 I am here for biased opinions and their justifying arguments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you.


----------



## levlhed

After listening to the stock card for a while, I think what I'd like to hear is more detail on the highs, what I hear are that while the frequencies are there in proper proportion they lack a certain clarity and liquid sparkle. They seem kind of crammed in there without a distinct polish and shimmer. I'd like them to be more liquid and detailed. The mids seem OK but I wouldn't mind a little more magic there. Again, they don't seem over done in presence, but I would like to hear some more of that liquid analog lushness. The bass seems to be about right, but I can hear how it could be a little tighter and defined.
 Am I right in thinking the LME4927NA's in the I/V will sort that out pretty well?
 Or would that be nicer in the buffer with a different chip in I/V?


----------



## sagatman

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *VISTREL* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Got today the ST version, blew my Audigy 2 ZS away. Saved bunch of money on DAC & Amp without compromising the sound quality._

 

You can judge the sound quality again after 2 weeks use. Mine is Essence ST and it's sound quality changed from aggressive, forward and grainy to superb ,fluid and perfect after 2 weeks use, IMHO


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *levlhed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After listening to the stock card for a while, I think what I'd like to hear is more detail on the highs, what I hear are that while the frequencies are there in proper proportion they lack a certain clarity and liquid sparkle. They seem kind of crammed in there without a distinct polish and shimmer. I'd like them to be more liquid and detailed. The mids seem OK but I wouldn't mind a little more magic there. Again, they don't seem over done in presence, but I would like to hear some more of that liquid analog lushness. The bass seems to be about right, but I can hear how it could be a little tighter and defined.
 Am I right in thinking the LME4927NA's in the I/V will sort that out pretty well?
 Or would that be nicer in the buffer with a different chip in I/V?_

 

The LME49720HA, for the I/V would provide a bit more high end extension.
 You might also consider the LME49710HA module for the Buffer instead. 

 Many people use these units around here but both of these units you will have to build or have another build them. They are metal can and considered the highest quality units of that opamp family. Here is a pic of the units:




 The 3 front units are LME49720HA and the larger rear module is the LME49710HA.
 Some use the 720's for the IV and a different opamp for buffer, some use the 710 module for buffer and different opamps for the I/V. I have seen some use all three...


----------



## [OverDrive]

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *levlhed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_After listening to the stock card for a while, I think what I'd like to hear is more detail on the highs, what I hear are that while the frequencies are there in proper proportion they lack a certain clarity and liquid sparkle. They seem kind of crammed in there without a distinct polish and shimmer. I'd like them to be more liquid and detailed. The mids seem OK but I wouldn't mind a little more magic there. Again, they don't seem over done in presence, but I would like to hear some more of that liquid analog lushness. The bass seems to be about right, but I can hear how it could be a little tighter and defined.
 Am I right in thinking the LME4927NA's in the I/V will sort that out pretty well?
 Or would that be nicer in the buffer with a different chip in I/V?_

 

On the buffer not recommend all the transactions that you named. As a buffer, in addition to the recommended by ROBSCIX, you can put:

 LT1364 (preferred)
 LT1361
 LT1358
 LT1124 (in use)

 These are the opa I prefer on the buffer.

 On I/V you can use the LME4927NA '. I have never liked them because they have a cold, sterile sound and without harmonics, we would recommend:

 OPA2137P
 OPamp audio GD "Earth" (in use).

 List tested to date:

 JRC2114D 
 LME4562NA
 LME49720NA
 OPA2137P
 OPA2132P / PA
 OPA2277P / PA
 LT1364
 LT1361
 LT1057
 LT1358
 LT1124
 Audio GD EARTH.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, there are a few that are using the discrete opamps and have been using them for along time. They offer a more analog sound to the STX/ST...

 There is no perfect set of opamps. Well all have different tastes and while some of us use very similar opamps setup some of us always use very different configurations.
 This is the great thing about opamps, you can dial in your own soudn with a little patience and experimentation.


----------



## levlhed

Yes, I've read a lot of favorable opinions on the LME4927HA's in adapters. I may go that way yet if I get ambitious enough to do the soldering (don't have the proper tools or experience) or find some already made.
 For now I will stick with ready-to-go DIP8's though.

 I got the NA's yesterday and listened to them in the I/V position last night w/ a JRC in the buffer. My first impressions were positive, but as I listened more I think my criticisms fall in line with some other's. The highs are pretty nice, but might be enhanced a bit too much. They are really close to being great, but seem to be just over the edge. I could probably live with it if I had to, but since I don't have to...
 Listening critically I can hear how the mids are pushed back a bit, they aren't quite as prominent. The added highs kind of cover that up at first, but as I kept listening it was more apparent. The midrange that is there sounds nice and clean, but somewhere in the upper midrange I hear a hole?
 The bass is OK, they seem to knock out a lot of the "meat", but still get good extension...I hear the sub-bass notes, but that 50-70hz range seems a little lighter than I'm used to. Again, I could live with it if I didn't have a choice.

 If I could dial back the highs of the NA's some, get a bit more midrange "squizzle" going and if possible bring back the meat of the bass without over-doing it I could be quite happy. Pretty much what I thought I'd be looking for, though I have to admit I would be satisfied with the sound if there were no other choice. I'd probably just make up for what I'm looking for by rolling tubes again.

 And yes, I totally understand that we all have different tastes and different equipment. I'm just trying to shorten my roll a bit to save some time (and more importantly money!) by making some educated guessing based on the experiences of others.
 I spent an embarrassing amount of money and time on 12AT7's in my rig and I'm trying not to take opamps to that extreme!


----------



## dex85

i had similar experience with LME49720NA as you. i found it very tiresome in the long run. there is nothing neutral or natural about its anemic bass, and overall it sounds sterile, grainy, tilted towards highs and artificial at times. it may work with bass heavy and less resolving headphones but it didn't do it for me. 

 it's possible 720NA is not showing its best in the STX circuitry but in case you're not going to experiment with it in other unit, you might as well put it in the drawer, or sell it.


----------



## kumaiti

Little question I don't really want to go through 114 pages to find:

 Do I need 2 or 4 LME49720NA if I am using only the headphone out?


 Thanks!!


----------



## dex85

just 2, those are DIP-8 dual op-amps. they go straight into sockets.


----------



## kumaiti

thanks


----------



## levlhed

Yeah, the NA's don't really do it for me. I spent some hours last night, tried a couple different preamp tubes/etc..The highs are tolerable but the bass is just wrong. It's not so much the apparent reduced level as the way it's got this boomy peak at the very bottom register.

 I've got a healthy number of the more popular DIP-8's making their way to me from different directions. Thank you OverDrive for summing up your recommendations like that. I have some OPA2137P on the way due to this!
 ROBSCIX, I've read that you've mounted some HA's for people I think. Is that something you normally do for people as a service? Or just for people you know better than a guy like me with all of 3 or 4 posts
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Though I think a guy at my work could be convinced to do the soldering for me if I get the parts together.

 I think it'd be nice to get peoples "final" conclusions on which ones they personally like summed up a little better somewhere. I guess the first post is edited recently to reflect some of this already. I do know that reading through all the posts from beginning to end is way too much to consume and keep straight.

 Would be cool if something showed up today and I could swap things around already! Waiting for something to be delivered is one of my all time disliked activities.


----------



## stoutblock

I ended up using OPA2137P in the I/V slots and a LME49720NA in the buffer. I am very pleased in my setup.


----------



## RicHSAD

I have pretty much settled for the OPA2228P in the I/V slots and the OPA2107AP in the buffer slot. Sounds fantastic to me.


----------



## levlhed

stoutblock, I'll end up trying that config I'm sure.
 RicHSAD, are those both DIP8?


----------



## RicHSAD

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *levlhed* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_stoutblock, I'll end up trying that config I'm sure.
 RicHSAD, are those both DIP8?_

 

Yes, no adapters needed.


----------



## Elanoir

Any news on the new drivers?


----------



## kwang411

Hey guys, I use a pair of K701s with the STX and I find the sound to be too cold, so I'm looking for opamps that can make the sound a lot warmer. Especially in the midrange, I want it to sound more forward and more full-bodied. 

 I see that ROBSCIX recommended OPA2134, OPA827's, OPA2132, OPA2227 earlier in the thread, but what are the differences between them? Or are there other choices?

 I use an external amp --> k701 through the STX's line out, so I need to change only one opamp, the "buffer" opamp? 

 Sorry I'm a complete noob at opamp rolling, thanks in advance!


----------



## levlhed

Using the line out, both opamp sections are part of the signal path. Buffer and I/V. From what I've read (not had the chance to try them myself) the Texas Instruments Burr Brown ones typically have a "warmer" character.
 If I were you I'd go back and write down the ones that people seem to like, jump through the hoops to get "signed up" on TI's site, and get a couple of each on their way to you as free samples. You should be able to narrow down the choices based on what others have written and just go from there based on your own ears/equipment.


----------



## forciano

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwang411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Hey guys, I use a pair of K701s with the STX and I find the sound to be too cold, so I'm looking for opamps that can make the sound a lot warmer. Especially in the midrange, I want it to sound more forward and more full-bodied. 

 I see that ROBSCIX recommended OPA2134, OPA827's, OPA2132, OPA2227 earlier in the thread, but what are the differences between them? Or are there other choices?

 I use an amp --> k701 through the STX's line out, so I need to change only one opamp, the "buffer" opamp? 

 Sorry I'm a complete noob at opamp rolling, thanks in advance!_

 

If you are using the integrated amp, you are using 2 opamps
 the I/V, if you are using the line out you use those 2 opamps plus a third opamp called the buffer which helps you customize the sound a bit more.


----------



## kwang411

Thanks levlhed and forciano

 So after reading some more (indeed very confusing), I think I will just leave the buffer opamp stock for now, and 2 X OPA2227P in the I/V for the warmer sound. How does this combo look? The OPA2227P can go straight on the STX without adapter right?

 I actually just found 2 pieces of BB OPA627AU at home, would these fit on STX? or would they need an adapter? Looks like this:





 And if these OPA627s do work, how do i know which direction to install them? 

 Thanks again!!


----------



## forciano

There's a document on asus website in the drivers and downloads section that tells you how to do it.
 Basically the little 1 and white design image are your guides when mounting them.


----------



## kwang411

Alright, i just swapped the opamps, but turns out one of my opa627s is dead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 so now i have a opa627au in the buffer, and the 2 stock JRC2114s in the I/V. 

 But somehow the sound seems slightly shifted to the right channel, why is that?? Did i not put the buffer opamp in properly?


----------



## KingFiercer

*kwang411 *
 Bwhaha, same thing with me - I've just got 2 opa627au and killed one of them by wrong 
 installation in buffer. Now I'm listening second 627 in buffer, details and bass are improved.
 With 49720NA in I/V sound is fatiguing (attack is too strong). With default JRC2114D all is ok, sound is very good.
 Soon I'll try 627au in I/V and 627BP in buffer.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *kwang411* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks levlhed and forciano

 So after reading some more (indeed very confusing), I think I will just leave the buffer opamp stock for now, and 2 X OPA2227P in the I/V for the warmer sound. How does this combo look? The OPA2227P can go straight on the STX without adapter right?

 I actually just found 2 pieces of BB OPA627AU at home, would these fit on STX? or would they need an adapter? Looks like this:
 And if these OPA627s do work, how do i know which direction to install them? 

 Thanks again!!_

 

The OPA2227's will dropr right in provided they are DIP8 versions as they are dual channel opamps. The 627's are single channel opamps and SOIC, so they require an adapter and TWO opamps per unit. So for instance to build units for the I/V you would need 4 OPA627's and 2 adapters.


----------



## KingFiercer

Do someone have any thoughts on using THS4631 in the I/V?
 How this opamp compared to OPA827?


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Just has a rare chance to try this card with a headphone. I've always used it exclusively with speakers prior to today. The story is that my friend was kind enough to let me borrow his ATH-W5000 for a few days and I must say that I've no regret spending around $160 for this card.

 I'm using the headphone out of the card with normal gain set (ATH-W5000's Z=40 ohms). I installed 2 LME49720NA's for the I/V and 1 LT1358 for the buffer.

 At first I couldn't believe what I was hearing and I had to question myself if I wasn't imagining things. The card and can combination surpassed anything I expected before putting it on. The most prominent features are sparkling highs and vivid details. Female vocals are very seductive with their textures, smoothness, and warmth. The bass somewhat lacks amount and impact but that was expected considering the opamps I'm using. I was never a fan of head-bobbing bass from the first place so I'm very impressed at what I heard. 

 I tried plugging it into Marantz PM7200 integrated amplifier which costed me nearly three times the price of this card and I think I can safely say that the card outperforms the amp. Well, that's something not way out of expectation when we're comparing a dedicated headphone amp audio card with an integrated amp meant to drive speakers.

 Considering the fact that I can still have it in my hand for another few days, I took a chance to grab for myself 2 of another much-praised opamp: the OPA2137P's. They'll be arriving shortly and I'll post my comments once I auditioned them.


----------



## ROBSCIX

ASIO 2.2 drivers, offering auto sample rate adjustment and bitprefect output.

STX Drivers
 Note, choose your OS and click drivers marked ASIO 2.2. These are the new Beta drivers people have been waiting for.


----------



## dex85

i've been using them since yesterday, it seems they still have to sort out some bugs. i tried to lunch one application while listening to foobar(WASAPI), which lead to dropout in music with older drivers (with ASIO i heard sounds of both foobar and applications). now it get stuck completely in a short loop. same thing happens when i'm browsing some web sites that constains sound. after some testing i'll have to switch to older drivers because of this (or maybe try the other player?). it could be the foobar's asio plugin that's causing this. volume control is now not responding at all, when using ASIO. it's 100% at all times. i guess it's supposed to be that way when doing bitperfect. so i'm afraid people who use the integrated headphone amp or don't have volume control means after soundcard can't use ASIO with new drivers.
   
  other than that, there is a significant increase of focus -> vocals are more articulate and details more apparent. there is impression of faster sound with better instruments imaging, although sound slightly lost on weight. i would never thought drivers could contribute this much to sound quality. i guess previous drivers must have been awfully broken, otherwise it's hard to explain this magic transformation. either way, the new drivers put STX on a higher level in my book. i'm using W7 btw.


----------



## gurubhai

I too have been using the new driver since yesterday. In my case, there are issues of crackles/pop whenever I do anything on my system.I checked the DPC latency & thats not a issue.
  So, I have reverted back to wasapi for now.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

Just tried the freshly released beta driver and encountered a few problems.
  1. Since it's bitperfect output, we can no longer control the volume by turning the driver's volume knob. On trying it out, the amp nearly blew my ears deaf along with the W5000's drivers. So be careful especially if your cans have low impedance (Mine is 40 ohms). I think I'm forced to use foobar's volume controller now.
  2. I'm not sure if this is another characteristic of bitperfect output or not (and I wish it isn't). When there's any program that produces sound, e.g. the clicking sound of Windows Explorer navigation, the song being played in foobar will freeze.
   
  Another thing, I feel like I want to DIY a dedicated power supply for the card. I believe Fzman built one for himself. Did he outlined the steps by which he built his unit?


----------



## gurubhai

The second issue is the one I am having too.
   
  The first is not a issue, it seems that the asio output is bypassing the windows/driver settings entirely. That actually how it should be.


----------



## kinonotabi

good day ...
   
  i am nubie & want to ask (sorry for my bad english - i am not native for it)
  i change opamp for my stx for i/v with pair of LME49720HA & pleased with it so far 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with default buffer opamp LM4562
   
  what i want to ask are :

 is it normal for LME49720HA temperature to be very hot when active? (my finger can't stay a second when touch it)
 is it safe in long term when i use it without converter like all of you guys recommended (see picture bellow)
 what the best buffer opamp from my choice available at my country? there are: LME49720HA, LT111, LT1363CN8, LT1028ACN8#PBF. i don't know wheter there are single or dual channel (i can manage to make it dual by combining 2 of single with converter available if a must) what i am looking for is for warmer sound than LM4562 with limited stock available
   

   
  thanks before (& sorry if i break any rule in this forum that i'am not aware of it)


----------



## kumaiti

Is LME49860NA the same or better than the famous LME49720NA?
   
   
   
  edit: nevermind, I found it.


----------



## shimm

49860 is same line as 4562, 49720 but has higher voltage supply. Some have tried them both and found 49860 better.


----------



## Bojamijams

How do I test if it does indeed have auto sample rate switching? I was looking at the control panel while I played some 44khz and 96khz files, and the sample rate stayed at 44khz, so I'm not convinced yet that its working as it should.


----------



## shimm

Quote: 





kumaiti said:


> Is LME49860NA the same or better than the famous LME49720NA?


 
   
  49860 is same line as 4562, 49720 but has higher voltage supply. Some have tried them both and found 49860 better


----------



## gurubhai

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> How do I test if it does indeed have auto sample rate switching? I was looking at the control panel while I played some 44khz and 96khz files, and the sample rate stayed at 44khz, so I'm not convinced yet that its working as it should.


 

 The control panel itself is bypassed. You can check by trying to change settings in control centre - nothing changes.


----------



## exFictitiouZ

I'm not an expert here but make sure that you've all the legs plugged into the correct socket. I'm guessing from the label on the tank but I'm not sure if the label on all of them are aligned in the same orientation. Apart from that I guess there shouldn't be any problem because the adaptor is just there to facilitate easy installation. Correct me if I'm wrong here
   
  BTW, your name comes from a Japanese light novel, no? 
  
  Quote: 





kinonotabi said:


> good day ...
> 
> i am nubie & want to ask (sorry for my bad english - i am not native for it)
> i change opamp for my stx for i/v with pair of LME49720HA & pleased with it so far
> ...


----------



## niCe99

wow those new drivers really make the sound more crisp and clearer
   
  i am not witnessing any problems that you guys are having with these drivers


----------



## wasp131

Works fine in xp ,must remove old drivers first though!.
  I can see the sample rate changing on my dacmagic's display,although nothing changes in the control panel so i assume its working.
  As i cant see the bitrate ,do i assume i still have to configure asio in foobar if i change from 16 bit to 24 bit recordings ?.


----------



## Ra97oR

Well, it looks like connected fine to me. I am doing the same too and found no problems.


----------



## dex85

it should be automatic. even if you select 24-bit and play 16-bit song, it will output 16-bit
  
  Quote: 





wasp131 said:


> Works fine in xp ,must remove old drivers first though!.
> I can see the sample rate changing on my dacmagic's display,although nothing changes in the control panel so i assume its working.
> As i cant see the bitrate ,do i assume i still have to configure asio in foobar if i change from 16 bit to 24 bit recordings ?.


----------



## walsh

Should the control panel look different with the new driver? I thought there would be an option for "bit perfect output" and also separate options for 44.1, 96 etc...


----------



## wasp131

Thx,dex 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  control panel looks identical in xp.
   
  BTW: if you use asio caps the bitperfect driver is identified but the caps and control panel buttons no longer work for me.


----------



## kinonotabi

Quote: 





exfictitiouz said:


> I'm not an expert here but make sure that you've all the legs plugged into the correct socket. I'm guessing from the label on the tank but I'm not sure if the label on all of them are aligned in the same orientation. Apart from that I guess there shouldn't be any problem because the adaptor is just there to facilitate easy installation. Correct me if I'm wrong here
> 
> BTW, your name comes from a Japanese light novel, no?


 

 So far i have no problem & had listening it for days
  What i do worried is opamp temperature, is it normal with very hot metal can? Now with stx shielding cover put back in place i know it will even hotter

 If there are no alternatives available yet, I'll chose same LME49720HA for buffer part. Is it good changing LM4562 with LME49720HA as buffer opamp? so it will be triple LME49720HA
  I hope it will make sound output more warmer & revealing than before. For what i know LME49720 is better version than LM4562, isn't it?






 My nick ID came from Japanese anime : Kino no Tabi - Byouki no Kuni


----------



## walsh

My god, the improvement is dramatic. Either I was doing something wrong with the settings before or it's the driver. I didn't expect this much difference. Everything is more detailed and vibrant.
   
  Question: Will everything be bit-perfect or only on ASIO compliant playback software?


----------



## kumaiti

How can drivers improve the sound quality?


----------



## walsh

I don't know. I changed from KS to ASIO in foobar so maybe it was that, but I don't see how since as far as I'm aware they both do the same thing. It's seriously about 30% better, easily noticeable.


----------



## kumaiti

I suspect volume increase, though I wouldn't bet on that.
   
   
  At least in my system, when using ASIO I can only control the volume on Foobar making it much much harder to adjust the volume to the "just right" position, which ends up a little louder than if I was using the knob on Xonar Control Panel


----------



## dex85

^you're not getting bitperfect output if you change the volume in foobar. it's same thing as with asus control panel, digital volume attenuation, thus cannot be bitperfect if not left at 100%.
   
*@walsh*: i agree that improvements are easily noticeable, everything is clearer, better defined and easier to follow. in other words, clarity is seriously better. there must have some issues with previous drivers.
   
  you will get automatic bitperfect output only with ASIO. for games etc. you have to manually select it in the control panel.


----------



## dex85

i guess ASIO bit-depth settings become irrelevant since it's automatic. same as with asus control panel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





wasp131 said:


> Thx,dex
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kumaiti

And how exactly the user is supposed to control the volume if the only slider that works when ASIO is enabled as the output in foobar is the volume slider on foobar itself?
   
  If I leave it at 100% I can hear the music almost 2 rooms away from the the headphones.
   
  Also, if I remember correctly, ROB mentioned that the main volume "knob" on Xonar Control Panel doesn't do digital volume attenuation, it actually controls the output power of the amplifier chip.
   
  Quote: 





dex85 said:


> ^you're not getting bitperfect output if you change the volume in foobar. it's same thing as with asus control panel, digital volume attenuation, thus cannot be bitperfect if not left at 100%.
> 
> *@walsh*: i agree that improvements are easily noticeable, everything is clearer, better defined and easier to follow. in other words, clarity is seriously better. there must have some issues with previous drivers.
> 
> you will get automatic bitperfect output only with ASIO. for games etc. you have to manually select it in the control panel.


----------



## dex85

^you can use dedicated headphone amp for headphones and integrated amplifier or pre-amp+power amp for speakers with analog volume pot. but bit-perfect is overrated anyway. if you care mostly for automatic sample rate and bit depth then there is nothing wrong about using foobar's volume control.
   
  about the STX's volume control. it's certainly digitally controlled but i'm no expert on this so maybe someone else can clear this out. bottom line is you won't get bit-perfect output by tampering with foobar's volume slider.


----------



## 8-bit thief

I bought an OPA2604, put it in the buffer slot of my STX and it made the lower treble really harsh, I thought this couldn't be right so I tried putting it into my Little Dot I+ and BAM warm, liquid sound with no harshness, I later read that this opamp can be harsh if it's not fully powered, I really like the sound of it in my Little Dot, and I'd like to try them out in my STX's I/V slots but I'm afraid to purchase more because of the probability that they'll be unstable like they were in the buffer zone, does anyone know if the I/V slots provide more power than the buffer?


----------



## Steve-o27

A quick question guys... I'm currently downloading the new drivers for the Xonar ST. Before installing them do I need to remove the old drivers? I'm using Windows 7 x64 btw.
   
  Never mind, I uninstalled the drivers in the end and installed the new ones. Installing the new ones on the old ones produced a strange hiss after the restart.


----------



## RicHSAD

I didn't notice a single difference between the old and the new drivers SQ wise. I am going to go with placebo on this one.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote: 





richsad said:


> I didn't notice a single difference between the old and the new drivers SQ wise. I am going to go with placebo on this one.


 

 Same, no difference in sound quality. However, I've always used WASAPI before so when I switched to ASIO to try this out, everything was a LOT louder. I think this is why people think its 'better, clearer, etc". Once I volume matched it, everything was fine.
   
  Odd thing is though, now when I want to play through ASIO I get "Hardware Not Present" error when it worked the first time I tried. Very odd. Oh well, back to WASAPI.


----------



## Telix

Balls, my first post I spent all that time on is completely screwed.


----------



## dex85

interesting that many people don't hear a difference. i guess something went wrong when i was installing the old drivers, because what i'm hearing now is beyond placebo (i matched the volume levels by estimate, as with ASIO it's 100% at all times). it's much easier to understand what singers are saying now. with double voices, with one being more in the background, it's easier to pick it up and follow. with older drivers sound was kinda blurry, now it's pure focus. also it's easier for me to tell bad recording from good one. + all those things that i mentioned earlier.  what operating system are you people using?


----------



## Steve-o27

Well I installed the new drivers and I didn't feel the difference... I'm using Win 7 x64 + foobar2k with ASIO4ALL. I tried the „bit perfect drivers” but I didn't hear any difference except the fact that everything was played at a much lower volume. Isn't Asio4All doing the same thing as the these new drivers? I mean I tried everything, mp3s, 16bit FLACs, even 24bit/96KHz FLACs comparing ASIO4ALL and this new driver and I can't hear a damn difference. When I was using wasapi I was able to differentiate wasapi from ASIO4ALL because 24bit/96KHz files sounded muffled when using wasapi.


----------



## mojave

Quote: 





dex85 said:


> interesting that many people don't hear a difference. i guess something went wrong when i was installing the old drivers, because what i'm hearing now is beyond placebo (i matched the volume levels by estimate, as with ASIO it's 100% at all times). it's much easier to understand what singers are saying now. with double voices, with one being more in the background, it's easier to pick it up and follow. with older drivers sound was kinda blurry, now it's pure focus. also it's easier for me to tell bad recording from good one. + all those things that i mentioned earlier.  what operating system are you people using?


 
  I installed the new drivers for my Essence ST last night. I also listen to music that has some additional vocals specifically when I want to listen for any improvements. When I had a less resolving system I used to only hear the main singer's voice. Now I can hear the accompanying vocals. Last night I listened to a few songs like that and the new drivers do have an improvement in separation and detail.


----------



## dex85

i'm also using W7 x64. i never tried the ASIO4ALL but i guess it's a good thing you can't tell a difference among WASAPI and ASIO foobar's plugins and ASIO4ALL. that means the new drivers are doing better job than the old ones.
  
  Quote: 





steve-o27 said:


> Well I installed the new drivers and I didn't feel the difference... I'm using Win 7 x64 + foobar2k with ASIO4ALL. I tried the „bit perfect drivers” but I didn't hear any difference except the fact that everything was played at a much lower volume. Isn't Asio4All doing the same thing as the these new drivers? I mean I tried everything, mp3s, 16bit FLACs, even 24bit/96KHz FLACs comparing ASIO4ALL and this new driver and I can't hear a damn difference. When I was using wasapi I was able to differentiate wasapi from ASIO4ALL because 24bit/96KHz files sounded muffled when using wasapi.


----------



## dex85

i hear the same thing with supporting vocals. they are more present, articulate and easier to notice/follow. with old drivers main and supporting voices were more blended. i hope we are not both crazy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but i'm confident we hear the real thing. it's too big to a placebo.
  Quote: 





mojave said:


> I installed the new drivers for my Essence ST last night. I also listen to music that has some additional vocals specifically when I want to listen for any improvements. When I had a less resolving system I used to only hear the main singer's voice. Now I can hear the accompanying vocals. Last night I listened to a few songs like that and the new drivers do have an improvement in separation and detail.


----------



## Ra97oR

I am not hearing any difference here, am I doing it wrong?


----------



## dex85

^probably not, there is not much to it,right?  just uninstall old and install new drivers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  all i can say that between old and new drivers i hear a tremendous difference. there could be many reasons for that (e.g. flawed installation of previous drivers), but i rule out placebo. i have no problem admitting i could be experiencing placebo when hearing something subtle, but this is a striking difference.


----------



## zenpunk

Somehow with the new driver I am able to play  24-bit/88.2 kHz files, which wasn't supported before and needed software conversion. I am using JR Media Jukebox 12. Can anybody confirm that with another player??? Are those drivers really bit perfect? I also experience random static noise, especially  when navigating within the media player. But those driver are only beta so things should improve. I just can't believe it took  so long for a company as big as Asus to get those new driver!


----------



## levlhed

re: opamps
   
  After running through quite a few different combos of a lot of the recommended chips:
   
  Buffer = LME49720HA
  I/V = OPA2137P
  Seems to have the right balance and tone.  Nothing jumps out and hurts me anyway, everything else had some particular flaw.
   
  The LME49720NA are a waste of time, I can't believe anyone would like those.  Seriously, if you are reading this thread trying to figure out what to try DO NOT BOTHER with the NA's.


----------



## KingFiercer

49720NA are good for turbid bassy headphones like Beyerdynamic DT990, D2000, and slightly for HD650.
  Everything depends on the tract and headphones. Although I also think there are better solutions for I/V.


----------



## walsh

Re: the new drivers -
   
  No way is this placebo, in my case at least. It made much more difference to my system than replacing my $250 external amp with a $1000 one. It's noticeable in movies as well, not just music so I will have to put it down to issues in the previous drivers. I'm thrilled, it sounds like a $3000 system now.
   
  Just curious - are the people hearing a difference using windows 7?
   

 Quote:
 Originally Posted by Steve-o27 View Post
  Well I installed the new drivers and I didn't feel the difference... I'm using Win 7 x64 + foobar2k with ASIO4ALL. I tried the „bit perfect drivers” but I didn't hear any difference except the fact that everything was played at a much lower volume. Isn't Asio4All doing the same thing as the these new drivers? I mean I tried everything, mp3s, 16bit FLACs, even 24bit/96KHz FLACs comparing ASIO4ALL and this new driver and I can't hear a damn difference. When I was using wasapi I was able to differentiate wasapi from ASIO4ALL because 24bit/96KHz files sounded muffled when using wasapi.

 I have the same system as you except i'm using ASIO in foobar2k, not ASIO4ALL. Try using ASIO if you can - download the foobar2k component and add it to the output menu in preferences. I don't think ASIO4ALL is the same thing so there might be a difference.


----------



## walsh

edit: double post, can't figure out how to delete


----------



## wasp131

Im hearing a big improvement too,im using spdif out to my dacmagic/dv337/dt990 600ohm ,sounds much cleaner and better focused than with the old drivers,(this is using flac on win xp).
   
  I did notice opening things like windows control panel while foobar is playing results in a considerable delay in the window popping up,so does right clicking a track in the playlist and selecting open containing folder,but it did this with the old drivers too,using KS fixes the delay.


----------



## TitaniumDust

This sound card is very intriguing to me.  I currently own an X-Fi Prelude.  I have a headphone amp connected (analog) and a receiver (analog or digital) that I wish to have connected at the same time.  Due to the way the Prelude works, I have to split the line out, which isn't ideal.  I had a couple of questions about the Essence STX if any of the gurus have a minute...
   
  (1) I understand that I can have the analog out and the digital out active at the same time.  Does the windows volume control affect both the analog and digital outs, or only the analog?  I wish it to do both since I wish to operate the headphone amp and receiver independently and volume control on both is very important.
   
  (2) Dumb question, the obvious answer is to use the line-out, but for people with dedicated headphone amps, would you hook it up to the RCA outs, or is there something special about the headphone out circuitry that would make it better to hook the amp up to the headphone jack?
   
  I didn't want to start a new thread to ask these questions, so I hope it is ok that I post here.  Thank you!
   
  EDIT: I bought it not knowing the answer to question 1, and the answer is: Yes it does.  Volume works for both analog out and digital PCM out.  I think I'm gonna love this card.


----------



## dex85

^(2): most people with dedicated headphone amps use the line-outs. it's less aggressive and you can adjust sound more to you liking because of the buffer. try for yourself, don't forget to set the gain to 0 dB, if you're going to use headphone out + external headphone amplifier


----------



## Elanoir

Is anyone getting crackling sounds on the beta drivers, when playing a game or doing anything else than just having your music player up? Using foobar2k with asio


----------



## freestyler

I guess this is because the default delay value is 10 ms.
  Which is extreme low and with the first "struggle" your pc have, it will skip.
  Try and set it higher to see if the situation is better. I don't think the quality will be affected but someone else can clear this for us.


----------



## Elanoir

Going back to the old drivers, waiting for the new drivers to release, this is beta drivers you'd know.


----------



## Bojamijams

Quote: 





freestyler said:


> I guess this is because the default delay value is 10 ms.
> Which is extreme low and with the first "struggle" your pc have, it will skip.
> Try and set it higher to see if the situation is better. I don't think the quality will be affected but someone else can clear this for us.


 

 Latency won't affect sound at all so set it as high as you want, its only for recording that it matters.


----------



## Zoltan99

Can I ask why benifits this card has in comparison to some external Amp/Dac Combos like the Zero, and Audio-GD Fun & Sprarrow?


----------



## zimmzio

This "Beta" doesn't even work in Nuendo...
   
  *update: Works in DirectX ASIO mode only, not in the real bitperfect ASIO mode. That's under Windows 7 32bit. 
   
  ...Was thinking about the irony of it all (ASIO not working under a Steinberg application)  hehe


----------



## bearcatsandor

I just ordered my Essence ST from Buy.com for $195 which seemed like a good deal.  I can't wait! *bounce bounce*
  As far as the "bit perfect drivers" i'm wondering how this will effect me on linux.  I've read that one wants to keep the volume at 76% but ideally wouldn't one want to keep it at 100% (0 dB) to keep all the resolution?
   Why do we even have volume controls in percent instead of dB?
   
  I'm a bit confused. Is the volume digital or digitally controlled analog?  I hope it's the latter.


----------



## forciano

76% is 0 DB thats why


----------



## bearcatsandor

Thank you Forciano. I hope that it's the same in the alsa mixer on linux as it is for Windows.


----------



## Ra97oR

I think 50% on the main volume + 76% on mixer is 0db.
   
  Tested it with a 0db pink noise and the meter on the driver CP. Not sure if that is right or not, but it made sense as there is a marking on the volume.


----------



## gmiossi

I just installed the new beta drivers also. I immediately brought up foobar, set it to ASIO output and queued up some flac.
   
  I have to say, I never thought a driver revision would make much of a difference, but I agree with most of the other posters about this - it's a tremendous difference. The sound is warmer and less 'fuzzy'... it's hard for me to put it into words, but it's a night and day difference.
   
  I'm assuming it's due to the lack of automatic up-sampling ->96khz for 4_khz material and the removal of another layer of ?software? volume mixing done in the xonar control panel...
   
  For reference, I'm running windows 7 64-bit. I used to always play in WASAPI mode. I'm listening with sennheiser IE8s at the moment. I have the gain set at 'normal'.
   
   
  ............great. Now I'm going to have to go and listen to all of my music again obsessively to pick up on the subtle differences... lol


----------



## zeromacro

^How did you install it on your 64bit Win7? I simply removed the driver from the device manager then install the drivers. Restarting the comp after removing the driver the OS automatically installs the older driver on boot.


----------



## kumaiti

I did exactly the same as Zeromacro and I still suspect a simple volume difference.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





zeromacro said:


> ^How did you install it on your 64bit Win7? I simply removed the driver from the device manager then install the drivers. Restarting the comp after removing the driver the OS automatically installs the older driver on boot.


 
   
  This also confused me. When I go to the properties of my "STX Audio Device" it gives the driver date as 3/02/2010, but the driver version seems to be correct.


----------



## zeromacro

Good cause I thought I was the only one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The driver date is the exactly the same for me.


----------



## ROBSCIX

IIRC, Usually date refer to major revisions.


----------



## gmiossi

Quote: 





zeromacro said:


> ^How did you install it on your 64bit Win7? I simply removed the driver from the device manager then install the drivers. Restarting the comp after removing the driver the OS automatically installs the older driver on boot.


 

 I just uninstall the Asus Xonar entry from add/remove programs, rebooted, pulled up device manager and confirmed that it hadn't found the old driver and then installed the new one.
   
*Definitely try this first!* Just removing a device in device manager doesn't delete windows' cached copy of the driver.
   
  If that doesn't work and windows is _still_ pulling a cached copy of a driver from somewhere, you can try two things:
   

 (easier): In device manager, pull up the device properties, click the driver tab and choose "roll back driver". If that's not an option, then.........
 (this, while safe if done right, is very advanced..._be careful_!): Click the Details tab. Drop down to Hardware IDs. Choose the first value. Hit CTRL-C to copy. Open notepad, paste, and remove PCI\.
 Copy that string, then use a search program that will let you search text contents within certain files. The old XP search would let you, but Vista/win7 will not... :/ ... a free one you can use instead is "agent ransack" - google it .. make sure it's set to search in hidden/system folders/files.
 Search in c:\windows\inf\*.inf (the windows driver definition database cache) for "files containing:", in my case for the first Xonar hardware ID string... "VEN_13F6&DEV_8788&SUBSYS_835C1043&REV_00" (without quotations)
 if this finds a file, edit it with notepad. If that file is solely for the xonar essence from asus then just delete it (or, better yet, just move it elsewhere...)
 If it's not, then delete the offending string itself from the file. This will prevent windows from matching against that cached driver set for that piece of harwdare. Uninstall the device from device manager, then right click your computer name at the top of the device manager tree and choose "scan for hardware changes". It shouldn't be able to find a driver now.
 If the above didn't find any matching files then go back to step #2 and repeat by CTRL-C'ing the next line down. Keep descending till you find the offender.
   
  Hopefully that helps


----------



## bearcatsandor

Whooo!!  I got my Essence ST set up the other night and it sounded good (especially when i connected the power to it... *ahem*).  It sounded good but not great. Much better than the Intel HD on-board but not great.
   
  Things seemed recessed and muffled. So last night i broke out the LME49720NA and LME49860NA chips and learned how to install them. They went in no problem. Those legs bend very easily though! I installed 49720 in the buffer and 49860 in the I/V.
   
  WOW. What a difference. Soundstaging and holography is much much better. Midrange to high is clear and precise without being too bright.
   
  However, i might be having a problem with the bass. I say *might* because i like many people are use to the bloated subwoofer sound.  i'm not quite sure what it's *supposed* to sound like. Part of my problem is that last week my drive with all of my music on it went bad. Yes, i know i really was gonna back it up that day. 14K lossless tracks. *sigh* i have a repair in mind, but that's another issue.  So my reference tracks are not available to me. Only a few are. 
   
  QUESTIONS:
  Does anyone know what i might hear if i swap the positions of the chips?
  Would that make a difference?
  Which chip/position is likely giving me this great mid to high end because i want to keep that.
  Should i wait a few days for "burn in", then re-evaluate?
   
  I don't want boomy bass just more extension. Any ideas what chip combos would give me that. I'd rather not use a soldering solution, but i'll be learning how to do that next week (to fix this hard drive) so i'll take that advice too.
   
  By the way, i *love* the relay switches on this thing. I donno how it is for you Windows users, but on Linux when the sound card drivers load or unload the relays are turned on and off, so you don't get the *THUMPS* through your speakers if you cold boot your system.
   
  For reference, my card is going out to a Trends Audio Ta-10 amp (13 watts Class T), to a pair of Anthony Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1s.
   
  Thank you all *SO* much for this thread and recommending this card.


----------



## leeperry

you'll never get any extended low end bass from the LME49___NA chips, look elsewhere


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> you'll never get any extended low end bass from the LME49___NA chips, look elsewhere


 

 Well! *sticks nose in the air* I've just ordered samples of the LT1057CN8 to swap out the 49860s.  Who's the awesome chip rolling cat?
   
  Me. That's who.  :"P
   
  Bearcat


----------



## leeperry

make it LT1364 and we might talk...or better 2*1363 on an adapter Mr rolling cat


----------



## fufula

Quote:  





> I did notice opening things like windows control panel while foobar is playing results in a considerable delay in the window popping up,so does right clicking a track in the playlist and selecting open containing folder,but it did this with the old drivers too,using KS fixes the delay.


 

 Glad I'm not the only one. This isn't a new bug, though. The same thing happens when I run ASIO with the previous set of drivers, the whole system gets lagged; it takes around 1 minute for Miranda (IM client) to forward URLs I click to my default browser, folders take a long time to open as well, and sometimes the whole task bar will just freeze.
   
  With the new set (beta) I also had a major problem with the microphone, it just sends really loud static. I couldn't figure out what was causing it, so I rolled back.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





bearcatsandor said:


> Well! *sticks nose in the air* I've just ordered samples of the LT1057CN8 to swap out the 49860s.  Who's the awesome chip rolling cat?
> 
> Me. That's who.  :"P
> 
> Bearcat


 

 Some people seem to forget their headphones or circuits also play a part and suggesting the LME don't produce any low bass is quite incorrect and just shows a lack of experience.
  You are on the right track though, keep testing until you find the units that are right for you.


----------



## wasp131

Quote: 





fufula said:


> Glad I'm not the only one. This isn't a new bug, though. The same thing happens when I run ASIO with the previous set of drivers, the whole system gets lagged; it takes around 1 minute for Miranda (IM client) to forward URLs I click to my default browser, folders take a long time to open as well, and sometimes the whole task bar will just freeze.
> 
> With the new set (beta) I also had a major problem with the microphone, it just sends really loud static. I couldn't figure out what was causing it, so I rolled back.


 
  I noticed that using lilith player has none of these problems, so it may be foobar problem.


----------



## Nachmanowicz

N00b question here: it supports 7.2 system?
   
  Cause I noticed there's no optical out...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





nachmanowicz said:


> N00b question here: it supports 7.2 system?


 


 No, the STX supports stereo through analog output and 5.1 through digital output using Dolby Digital Live.


----------



## Nachmanowicz

Quote: 





robscix said:


> No, the STX supports stereo through analog output and 5.1 through digital output using Dolby Digital Live.


 
  Too bad, always heard great things about his one.
   
  Guess I'll have to go for Omega Claro, then.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Some people seem to forget their headphones or circuits also play a part and suggesting the LME don't produce any low bass is quite incorrect and just shows a lack of experience.
> You are on the right track though, keep testing until you find the units that are right for you.


 

 This is true Deep bass is being reproduced in that i can play back a 30 hz tone with plenty of volume (real instruments rarely go down that low anyhow), it's just the leading edge of things like bass cello plucks that are missing.
   
   
  On another note (har har) i called Asus and asked them the questions i had posted earlier. The ST with a H6 *will* produce 8 full-range channels. There is no low-pass filter on the "subwoofer" channel.  Also, unfortunatly the clock on the ST does *not* effect the H6 in anyway. The person i was talking to did not understand my questions (as usually happens when i talk to a tech support person) but they were relaying to the "audio guys".  Things may have gotten screwed up between there and her end. I'm a little surprised that the H6 is not effected. That means that the channels are being re-clocked rather than the whole stream at once?
   
  Bearcat


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> make it LT1364 and we might talk...or better 2*1363 on an adapter Mr rolling cat


 
  Of course! I'll just have to try them all!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





bearcatsandor said:


> This is true Deep bass is being reproduced in that i can play back a 30 hz tone with plenty of volume (real instruments rarely go down that low anyhow), it's just the leading edge of things like bass cello plucks that are missing.
> 
> 
> On another note (har har) i called Asus and asked them the questions i had posted earlier. The ST with a H6 *will* produce 8 full-range channels. There is no low-pass filter on the "subwoofer" channel.  Also, unfortunatly the clock on the ST does *not* effect the H6 in anyway. The person i was talking to did not understand my questions (as usually happens when i talk to a tech support person) but they were relaying to the "audio guys".  Things may have gotten screwed up between there and her end. I'm a little surprised that the H6 is not effected. That means that the channels are being re-clocked rather than the whole stream at once?
> ...


 


 Well perhaps they didn't understand your question.  There is no clocking circuitry on the H6 at all.  All the clocking signals come from the main card. 
  The ST uses a normal XO but also has a seperate chip that cleans the timing further.  So if the timing on the main card is higher precision, I cannot see why it wouldn't be on the H6 aswell, if you follow the logic here.  I have both the ST and H6 cards, just had a look at them to verify there is no timing circuit on the H6 at all.  Just DAC's opamps and caps.
  No there is no lowpass filter on the card...it is tunable through software crossover.  There is also a seperate volume for each output if that helps you at all.


----------



## Steve-o27

Does the Xonar ST control center change upon connecting the H6 or do you need to reinstall the drivers in order for the sound card to recognize the H6 daughter board?


----------



## leeperry

bearcatsandor said:


> Of course! I'll just have to try them all!


 
  then you'll be seriously addicted, opamps rolling is a very hard drug..as you'll find out soon enough


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> then you'll be seriously addicted, opamps rolling is a very hard drug..as you'll find out soon enough


 

 As an audiophile i appreciate the fact that i don't have to spend thousands of dollars on cables that "remove resonance from the signal", little stones that "correct magnetic fields" or other such nonsense.  These op-amps really *do* make a difference, and so far the cost is free and it might get to a couple of bucks if i really get into it.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Well perhaps they didn't understand your question.  There is no clocking circuitry on the H6 at all.  All the clocking signals come from the main card.
> The ST uses a normal XO but also has a seperate chip that cleans the timing further.  So if the timing on the main card is higher precision, I cannot see why it wouldn't be on the H6 aswell, if you follow the logic here.  I have both the ST and H6 cards, just had a look at them to verify there is no timing circuit on the H6 at all.  Just DAC's opamps and caps.
> No there is no lowpass filter on the card...it is tunable through software crossover.  There is also a seperate volume for each output if that helps you at all.


 
  Yeah, i'm betting they didn't. Thanks, that's all very useful information.
   
  By the way, what i hope to set up is a good ambisonics system in time. That's why the 8 full range channels were important, as you can make a full sphere with them. 16 is better, but i'm not that crazy yet.


----------



## leeperry

bearcatsandor said:


> As an audiophile i appreciate the fact that i don't have to spend thousands of dollars on cables that "remove resonance from the signal", little stones that "correct magnetic fields" or other such nonsense.  These op-amps really *do* make a difference, and so far the cost is free and it might get to a couple of bucks if i really get into it.


 some cables change the sound as much opamps, haha...but apparently trying ADA4627-1B right away will save you a lot of time and money. I've got two of them on my desk, too lazy to solder them atm, LT1363 just hits the spot for me


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





leeperry said:


>


 

 you mean these LT1363CN8#PBF http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1154,C1009,C1022,P1108
   
  Are those singles or doubles? I think given the "PDIP" they should work as is, right?


----------



## leeperry

more like 2*CS8 on an adapter:


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> more like 2*CS8 on an adapter:


 
  ahh, so the CN8 chips need adapters? I don't know how to solder yet, but i plan on learning in a few weeks. In the mean time i'm looking to avoid ones that need adapters.
   
  Also, that only looks like one chip? Where's the other one?


----------



## leeperry

the other chip is on the bottom side....two single opamps on an adapter will alway sound FAR better than a dual opamp, so I'd advise to learn how to solder and not waste your time: http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/
   
  it's far easier than it seems, just get a 30W iron and some low melting point solder


----------



## bearcatsandor

Thanks. You know, i did have the thought "I wonder if a single opamp sounds better than a dual in the way that a single ended tube sound better than a push-pull"
   
  Is it a similar situation?


----------



## leeperry

not sure, but dual mono always kills stereo in the audio world...even TI acknowledged the problem, but still failed blatantly as two OPA1611 do sound much better than one OPA1612: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/opa1612.html
   


> The dual version features completely independent circuitry for lowest crosstalk and freedom from interactions between channels


----------



## bearcatsandor

Well i'm still confused by all this. When you recommend LT1363 (avail here  http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1154,C1009,C1022,P1108 ) or someone else reccomends a AD797BRZ (avail here http://www.analog.com/en/other-products/militaryaerospace/ad797/products/product.html )  how do i read off those chip types and know which will need adaptors because they are singles and which won't?


----------



## leeperry

ad797/lt1363 are singles indeed, reading the datasheets helps when you're not sure


----------



## bearcatsandor

Um..yes..thanks. *looks embarrassed and hides in a corner*


----------



## leeperry

lol, no need to...just check the datasheet for the opamp pinout, if it says IN1/IN2/OUT1/OUT2 it's a dual.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense actually. This thread has been full of so much awesome information
   
  By the way, i've downloaded those videos on how-to solder and will be watching them soon. They should help when my friend teaches me how to do it myself.


----------



## kinonotabi

I think i've settled my opamp little adventure by choosing LME49720HA on I/V with LT1364 on buffer. The sound is so clear with lot of musical detail and  bass has enough quantity as well.
  With LM4562NA on buffer the sound was as clear as crystal but lack of bass extension i though.
  With OPA2134 on buffer the sound was muddy, bass was to much and the high was dull. i don't know if it called warm but i didn't like it.
   
  Someone has suggested LT1364 opamp somewhere on this thread to compensate the lack of bass quantity in LM4562. I thank you for that. To bad i can't continue my curious for other opamps variation because every little opamp here must be buy to get with high price as well.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





bearcatsandor said:


> Thanks. You know, i did have the thought "I wonder if a single opamp sounds better than a dual in the way that a single ended tube sound better than a push-pull"
> 
> Is it a similar situation?


 


 Yes, common opamp information posted in the DIY opamps thread.  If you are looking for good opamp information, that woudl be the place to get it.  IIRC, the 1364 dual and 1363 singles weren't that popular using these cards.  Your tastes may vary.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





steve-o27 said:


> Does the Xonar ST control center change upon connecting the H6 or do you need to reinstall the drivers in order for the sound card to recognize the H6 daughter board?


 


 The drive just reconfigures itself.  You don't have to reinstall..etc.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, common opamp information posted in the DIY opamps thread.  If you are looking for good opamp information, that woudl be the place to get it.  IIRC, the 1364 dual and 1363 singles weren't that popular using these cards.  Your tastes may vary.


 

 Thanks for the info and the pointer!  *starts to read* There are almost 3k posts in that thread! wow.  *falls over dead*
   
  It would be great if we had some sort of indexing system where a person could look up a chart of these opamps and see (on a score of  1 - 10) which what amount of highs, lows, soundstaging, grain, etc.
   
  There seem to be hundreds of combonations and a person could spend lots of time and money doing this.
   
  I know we can't really ask "What's the best?" as it all depends on one's system and hearing, but if we know our systems well enough we know that we'll want an opamp that's darker to tame a bright speaker or faster to improve a sludgy big woofer system.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





bearcatsandor said:


> Thanks for the info and the pointer!  *starts to read* There are almost 3k posts in that thread! wow.  *falls over dead*
> 
> It would be great if we had some sort of indexing system where a person could look up a chart of these opamps and see (on a score of  1 - 10) which what amount of highs, lows, soundstaging, grain, etc.
> 
> ...


 


 There is no best, it is a matter of opinion and what is best regarding your system and circuit.  However, if you are looking for certain aspects like a bit of roll off in the high end or lighter in the bass end.  You might be able to get what you are after with certain opamps in your circuit.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Right that's just what i'm saying. I'd love a chart that would tell me that *such and such chip tends to roll off the high end".  Right now though between these two  threads, one has a week of reading to figure that out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





bearcatsandor said:


> Right that's just what i'm saying. I'd love a chart that would tell me that *such and such chip tends to roll off the high end".  Right now though between these two  threads, one has a week of reading to figure that out.


 


 There is a problem with that also.  People hear things differently and have different tastes.  What I might find cold sounding you may find warm..etc.  It is all based on your experience with opamps and other audio devices.  This idea gets mentioned every now and again but it never takes off because it will not work.  Opamps are far to subjective for such things..


----------



## levlhed

I still think a highly opinionated list based upon personal preference and one's particular gear in use would be way more helpful and efficient than trying to dig through these two threads.  I'm not talking about a list for op amps in general either, I specifically mean for the ASUS Xonar cards.


----------



## Ra97oR

Just ordered some [size=x-small]LT1364, hope it will sound nice.[/size]


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





levlhed said:


> I still think a highly opinionated list based upon personal preference and one's particular gear in use would be way more helpful and efficient than trying to dig through these two threads.  I'm not talking about a list for op amps in general either, I specifically mean for the ASUS Xonar cards.


 

 I agree. If this thread is helpful at all and not completely subjective (and it IS helpful - i've got a lot of good advice about op-amps which worked for me), then a wiki-style contributory list will be. All that it awaits is a few people with the skill and energy to get it started. Anyone?
   
  These new drivers are really going to have to make me reconsider my choice of op-amp. Depth and detail have been increased at the expense of increased high frequency grain and volume to the level of a too screechy treble. I'm thinking of the OPA627AU to replace the LME49720HA in the buffer. Would this work?


----------



## kumaiti

Quote: 





levlhed said:


> I still think a highly opinionated list based upon personal preference and one's particular gear in use would be way more helpful and efficient than trying to dig through these two threads.  I'm not talking about a list for op amps in general either, I specifically mean for the ASUS Xonar cards.


 

 I second that.


----------



## dex85

i would wait for the final drivers if i were you, just to be sure. these are only beta drivers after all.
  
  Quote: 





walsh said:


> These new drivers are really going to have to make me reconsider my choice of op-amp. Depth and detail have been increased at the expense of increased high frequency grain and volume to the level of a too screechy treble. I'm thinking of the OPA627AU to replace the LME49720HA in the buffer. Would this work?


----------



## KingFiercer

*walsh*
  2xOPA627AU will work normal in buffer. Now I'm temporarily using 627AU with default NJM2114D. Sounds good.Very pleased with the bass.
​


----------



## levlhed

I've never done a WIKI before so bear with me.
  I just started this to see if it works and is any help at all concerning keeping track of what people are doing with Op Amps in these cards.
   
  This is only on a trial basis right now.  If it works and people find it helpful then great.
  If it's stupid or ends up causing me undue headaches I'll kill it.
   
  http://levlhed.com/xonar
   
   
  Your input on ways to improve this are welcome because I really have no idea what I'm doing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

If you read through here you can basically make a list yourself.
  Good luck with your Wikki...


----------



## Telix

If the forum transition hadn't completely hosed my OP there wouldn't be any need to re-read the thread....


----------



## ROBSCIX

Information evolves...so must the thread.


----------



## jalyst

i do agree on the idea for a central repository with only the useful ideas (no extra noise/chatter) assoc w/this family of cards.
  It could outline opamp and more sophisticated mods one can do to improve their performance....
   
  Alas i have no time these days for this sort of thing, but if there was a central pace, & it was easy to sign up.
  Then I suppose I wouldnt have a problem adding new content occasionally, as I learn new things.


----------



## AhhHoNG

May i know what does the buffer or i/v opamp do? Meaning what does the buffer and i/v do to the sound. If i use RCA out does it mean only the buffer opamp affects it? How about the i/v? Does it really affect headphones out only and not the RCA.
   
   
  And lastly does the ST has any converter adapter for 3.5mm to 6.3mm and 3.5 to  RCA? Seems like the mic is 6.3mm too. Both my speakers and mic are using 3.5mm. I believe the STX provide the RCA cables but not the ST. Thanks alot


----------



## Zink

How does the headamp in this card compare to the PA2V2 or other low cost amp? I'm thinking of using a PCI E-MU 0404 and the PA2V2. The DAC section should be similar in quality but I'm not sure about the amp performance of this card. I will be driving KSC75, ATH-M50 and ATH-AD700.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote:


zink said:


> How does the headamp in this card compare to the PA2V2 or other low cost amp? I'm thinking of using a PCI E-MU 0404 and the PA2V2. The DAC section should be similar in quality but I'm not sure about the amp performance of this card. I will be driving KSC75, ATH-M50 and ATH-AD700.


 


 The can amp is rasonable considering the overall price of the product.  However it will not suprass high quality external amplifiers. Now, I am unsure of the quality of that unit you are talking about perhaps another can give you a comparison.


----------



## 578xxx

Although the price of xonar essense stx is really high, I still think it worths the price when I was listening the pure & clear stereo music with the impressive gear.
   
  Much better than my old creative...


----------



## KingFiercer

crap, LME49710HA has lowered (transperent) bass like LME49720NA. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Sounds good, but bass... With OPA827 in I/U bass was a little thicker, but not full too. AD797BR is still best for me.
  This OpAmp for classical music and vocal.


----------



## bearcatsandor

I think i've found a really nice op-amp combination: LME49720NA in the buffer and LT1057CN8 in the IVs.  It sounds *very* detailed without being bright.  At first i thought that the bass was lacking, but the more i listen to it the more i feel that it's just more natural.  I'm used to cellos having a wall-vibrating tone and i now feel that was bad harmonics happening.  
   
  It's gentle, precise and it sound stages and images very, very well.  I'm reminded of a high quality (Soundlabs electrostats, Meridian DSP) speakers when i listen to my "lowly" Anthony Gallo Accoustic Reference 3.1 speakers now.  This really gets me closer to some of the benchmark systems i have heard and for a fraction of the price.
   
  I would like more depth placement, that is to say i;m not really getting the front to back depth that i want yet. I can't tell if one violinist is behind another one, but that may as well be my set up and acoustical space.  I understand that is a difficult trick to pull off with any system.
   
  I'm very happy with this card. I can't tell you how much i am enjoying this!  Next i think i'll learn to solder and try out some single-ended chips.
   
  Bearcat


----------



## bidge

hi i have 2 extra lm 4562 op amps would it be a good idea to put 3x lm 4562 op amp? or just stick with the stock ones until i get some other op amps?


----------



## KingFiercer

Check it out. Some people like 4562 in I/V (with LM6172 in buffer for example).


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





kingfiercer said:


> crap, LME49710HA has lowered (transperent) bass like LME49720NA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Building opamps module like this can cause trouble.  I would suggest if you want to test out this unit get the proper adapter and solder it up.
  Many use the dual LME49710HA modules in the ST(X) for buffers


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





bidge said:


> hi i have 2 extra lm 4562 op amps would it be a good idea to put 3x lm 4562 op amp? or just stick with the stock ones until i get some other op amps?


 

 You can try but usually using 3 of the same type of opamps can cause issue as the negative aspects of the opamp can compound.  Consider the I/V opamps produce the "basic" signature and the buffer opamps can enhance or hinder certain aspects of the spectrum.  For instance, Say you like an opamp but it has a high range that is a bit too bright for your system.  Use these for I/V and then use an opamp with a warmer, rolled off treble siugnature to balance out the response.


----------



## KingFiercer

*ROBSCIX*
  Some refine, but nothing change in sound... Lowered bass, which creates a little distant sound by the way... It's NOPB version.


----------



## bearcatsandor

KingFiercer,
  wow! Who would have thought that soldering was legal in a Jenga game?
   
  :"P
   
  Bearcat


----------



## KingFiercer

Positions of opamps are correct. This Jenga short and OK imho.
  If I soldered them to the adapter, it will unlikely to selling. =)


----------



## bidge

hm.. i will try out all 3 lm 4562 and if i dont like it i will probably order another op amp for the buffer section , what do you guys recommend for the buffer?
  also 1 more question, the card can be connected to the front case jack correct?will it sound worse than running an extension from the back of the case?(some people posted that theres a high amount of noise due to the cable passing over the gpu and what not)


----------



## KingFiercer

AD797BR (http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-Mono-Op-amp-module-4558-NE5532-TL072-AD797BR-/350365136819?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519363b7b3), LME49860NA, LM6172IN. An try 2xLT1364CN8 or 4xOPA827 with adpaters in I/U (instead of LM4562). For detailed and ringing sound you can use THS4062 in I/U.
  Noise from GPU or something... Do you hear it? If no, so don't care about it. By the way - screen is not needed, you can remove it - this improved cooling card.


----------



## leeperry

kingfiercer said:


>


 

 You're lucky Gustave Eiffel's been dead for while!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





kingfiercer said:


> AD797BR (http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-Mono-Op-amp-module-4558-NE5532-TL072-AD797BR-/350365136819?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519363b7b3), LME49860NA, LM6172IN. An try 2xLT1364CN8 or 4xOPA827 with adpaters in I/U (instead of LM4562). For detailed and ringing sound you can use THS4062 in I/U.
> Noise from GPU or something... Do you hear it? If no, so don't care about it. By the way - screen is not needed, you can remove it - this improved cooling card.


 

 Many of the THS series opamps are extremely fast and the ringing you are hearing is probably high frequency oscillation.  You cna run into such thing with other opamps if they are not built or conencted properly.  That pic you posted of that opamp tower, such things can cause issue with high speed opamps.


----------



## dark1evil2

wow so many opamp here
   
  whats the best opamp for xonar st? theres so many i dont know what to get
   
  the headphones i will using is ad700 & dt990 if that help


----------



## RicHSAD

Quote: 





dark1evil2 said:


> wow so many opamp here
> 
> whats the best opamp for xonar st? theres so many i dont know what to get
> 
> the headphones i will using is ad700 & dt990 if that help


 

 I like the OPA2228P in I/V with my AD900(and also AD700 when I had them). I have not tried a whole lot of different op-amps compared to other people here, but so far they have been my favorite.


----------



## gwillys

i've been messing with my ST for a while. i only use the rca out/stereo.
  i have the beta driver installed, but not the asus control center.
  foobar ks.
   
  the ST is currently recapped with elna silmic II, 3 burson opa's.
  huge improvement with the elna's and again with the bursons. a few levels up from stock after 100 hrs burn-in.
   
  now i'm working on a isolated power supply for the burson's. waiting on parts - burson +12v adjustable (10/20v) voltage regulator, dexa +5v regulator and a bench/lab power supply. today i recieved the audio gd opa lead extensions i'll use to tie in the power supply to pins 4 & 8.
   
  i have tried supplying 14v to the card thru the molex connector. the ST loved it, but the motherboard became unstable.
  as most opamps perform best with 18v, i expect another improvement, that is...if this works 
   
  too many pages in this thread to read. has anyone tried any of this?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, back when the STX was first released a few experimented with external PSU's.  Many opamps do operate somewhat better with higher power ratings but it would need to be done properly to work the best. Make a rise to remove the boards power from the opamp power inputs, then tie in the external supply.  There us a guy that builds such boards for other cards but I have not seen them for the ST(X) series.


----------



## gwillys

thanks ROBSCIX , seems i'm on the right path. i dont need a riser. i'll use these to tie in:

  nicely made from audiogd. machined gold plated sockets.
   
  if it works, i'll shorten the leads and solder everything i can.
  & post results here.
   
  btw, the 3 burson opa's cost me $160usd total, incl shipping to usa, directly from Jack @ burson. i think they are a very good value, less expense than a good phono cartridge. function wise, i equate opamps to phono cartridges, with some doing some things better than others. but the bursons seem to a good all around solution. my opamp rolling days are over.


----------



## gwillys

burson 12v & dexa 5v regulators arrived yesterday. installed them this morning. pretty straightforward, no mishaps.

 the previous 7812 (TO-220) 12v regulator was outputting 11.94v. interestly, the burson ouputs 13.82v. it measures 14.77v on the input side, same as with the TO-220. i have no idea how or why that is, running off the computers 12v molex, but i think it's a good thing. wish i had some idea what i'm doing  the burson's output voltage is adjustable, but i have no idea how to adjust it. no instructions. there is a Bourns 3296 Potentiometer on the board, but i dont know what it does, so i left it alone.

 first thing i noticed is improved imaging and clarity. i suppose these things need to burn-in, so i'll reserve judgement for awhile.
   
  edit: as per burson, the blue trim pot on thier regulator is for voltage adjustment. easy enough.
   
  the bench/lab power supply i ordered should be here this week. variable 0 - 30v.  i'll try to use it as an isolated power source directly to the + - legs of the bursons.


----------



## beeman458

Noobie here.  Hi Guys.  First post.  Hanging around long enough to learn what I need to learn to get some excellent sound and then it's on to the next sunrise.  Been lurking and reading for a while and thought I'd share what I'm doing to tweak the Essence STX board.
   
  In the beginning, I tried a few opamp rolls (OPA2111KP and LME49720NA) but the sound card wasn't burned in yet and the sound flatted out, so I went back to stock opamps real fast.  Kinda hard to buy and try all the possibilities.  "Maybe" I'll try to roll again when the sound card has a few hundred more hours on it.  I must say, using the provided graphics equalizer to lightly tune up the sound, it's sounding mighty good.  Oh and I don't have "Golden Ears."  Boo Hoo Hoo.
   
  Currently listening with a pair of HD-650's using stock headphone cables.  I have maybe fifty hours on the headset and it's starting to open up beautifully a la Miles Davis, K.D. Lang and Led Zeppelin ripped at 192kpbs.
   
  To tweak the sound card, I'm currently working on the power supply system.  Two items (tweaks) are on order and should be in later this week.  I hope to clean up any power supply considerations by replacing the old power supply and installing this computer power supply as it's replacement.
   
  http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4558896&csid=ITD&body=REVIEWS#tabs
   
  For the hard core among you, here's tests on the 850W and 1050W units.  I'll be using their 750W version at probably not much more than 50% rated capacity.
   
  http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/24/ultra_x4_850w_1050w_power_supplies_review/
   
  Replacing with the above power supply will give each internal board it's own power lead, eliminating the traditional power supply ponytail in the process, cleaning up the interior of the computer box, improving air circulation and hopefully clean-up extraneous EMI running around in the case.  Secondly on order, is a ten foot AudioQuest power cord so the power supply can reach and be fed by it's own outlet and reduce any introduced distortion from the strip plug that everything else is plugged into.
   
  http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72863
   
  The idea is to make sure the computer sound card has all the clean power the sound card wants and not have to worry about the power supply being taxed in it's efforts to deliver power to each of the component parts.  Current power supply being replaced is a stock, Case 500w power supply as opposed to the replacement being a designer 750w power supply.  My expectations of the above tweaks are to open the sound up, have a wider, deeper sound stage, better musical instrument separation and punchier notes.  Time will tell on the above. 
   
  Once the power cable and power supply are installed and have had a chance to burn in, the next tweak will be replacing the headphone cables.  Looking to go with Double Helix Cables.
   
  http://www.doublehelixcables.com/index.html
   
  (FWIW, I'll stay away from the cable/zip cord debate as music is emotion and what ever floats your boat, creates internal happiness or helps you follow your bliss, is the only thing that matters.)
   
  In the end, I don't want any DACs/Headphone amps or power conditioners on the desk or the floor as I just want a decent headphone with some way cool looking cables attached, sitting on the side, waiting to thrill my ears whenever I park it in front of the computer monitor.
   
  Oh, and thanks to everybody for your unheralded input.  Even though you didn't know I was reading what you guys were writing, I was there, reading and taking benefit of your posted personal experiences.
   





   
  PS: Sorry for the long first post.  Just trying to be through.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> burson 12v & dexa 5v regulators arrived yesterday. installed them this morning. pretty straightforward, no mishaps.
> 
> the previous 7812 (TO-220) 12v regulator was outputting 11.94v. interestly, the burson ouputs 13.82v. it measures 14.77v on the input side, same as with the TO-220. i have no idea how or why that is, running off the computers 12v molex, but i think it's a good thing. wish i had some idea what i'm doing  the burson's output voltage is adjustable, but i have no idea how to adjust it. no instructions. there is a Bourns 3296 Potentiometer on the board, but i dont know what it does, so i left it alone.
> 
> first thing i noticed is improved imaging and clarity. i suppose these things need to burn-in, so i'll reserve judgement for awhile.


 

 What you're doing sounds intriguing....
  I don't suppose you could post some simple step-by-step instructions for what you're doing & what's involved?


----------



## jalyst

Quote:  





> To tweak the sound card, I'm currently working on the power supply system.  Two items (tweaks) are on order and should be in later this week.  I hope to clean up any power supply considerations by replacing the old power supply and installing this computer power supply as it's replacement.
> 
> http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4558896&csid=ITD&body=REVIEWS#tabs
> 
> ...


 

 Good idea RE quality PSU, but if you can afford the 'wallet raping' may I suggest this:
  http://www.silentpcreview.com/article986-page6.html
  http://www.anandtech.com/show/3655/seasonic-xseries-750w
  1st  Gold rated unit on the market...
   
  I've been exhaustively checking & rechecking various sources that specialise in PSU discussion:
  http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6738&page=5
  http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6758
  http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10118
  http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=58716 (a few fairly insightful comments)
   
  And everyone's saying the X-series is still the best, if you don't need/want 1000W+ (which is most users)
  There's a few models purportedly out soon that will pip it, but no one knows when they'll be available.
  Could be next week, could be for Xmas, could be never...
   
  Also good idea RE using entirely separate mains for the PSU too!
  I will watch with interest if you decide to document further.
   
  Cheers


----------



## beeman458

Thanks for the links.
   
*I will watch with interest if you decide to document further.*
   
  Don't hold your breath as my documentation will be strictly along the lines of anecdotal as opposed to empirical.  I had no idea there was a hobby who's participants followed power supplies.
   




   
  I suspect I'll know more come this following weekend.


----------



## shimm

Quote: 





beeman458 said:


> To tweak the sound card, I'm currently working on the power supply system.  Two items (tweaks) are on order and should be in later this week.  I hope to clean up any power supply considerations by replacing the old power supply and installing this computer power supply as it's replacement.


 

 You have to look here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/426049/making-a-decent-hi-fi-power-supply-for-xonar-essence/270#post_6380209


----------



## gwillys

Quote: 





jalyst said:


> What you're doing sounds intriguing....
> I don't suppose you could post some simple step-by-step instructions for what you're doing & what's involved?


 
  i'm not really qualified, but:
  1. recap the card - replace all nichicon caps with elna silmic II. remember polarity, its marked on the board.
   
  2. install 3 burson dual op amps. always know where pin 1 is.
   
  IMHO, steps 1 & 2 should be mandatory. better to spend money here than on a exotic psu for your computer. i have a antec neo 400w, and its just fine. 100+ hr burn-in for elna & burson.
   
  3. replace the 7812 and 7805 surface mount regulators. this might be tricky. i had to pull out a macro photography set up just to identify them. desoldering these requires some practice, if you mess up the pads or pull a trace, your screwed. i have a dexa for the 7805, and a burson for the 7812.
  i was able to mount the dexa in the original position by drilling a 1mm hole in the ground pad and bending the legs for a quasi surface mount. the burson is big, so i installed pins through the board, and connections are on the back. .85mm holes and trimmed cap legs. i'll get some silver wire from the local jeweler and make something more durable. still havent figured out where to mount the burson regulator board. right now its just hanging off the card. i have a milling machine and some delrin, and might fabricate a bracket for it.
   
   
  i cant teach you how to solder/desolder, but theres plenty of info out there. tear something apart for a pcb to practice on.
  find the data sheets/diagrams for components. triple check everything, no mistakes allowed.
   
  next up for me is taking a stab at a isolated power supply. interested to see what effect 18v has on the opa's.
  heres what i've ordered: http://www.mastechpowersupply.com/dc-power-supply/linear-power-supply/mastech-regulated-variable-dc-power-supply-hy3003d-30v-3a/prod_2.html
   
*disclaimer:* i really dont know what i'm doing, i just got my first multimeter  , a extech 22-816, on clearance for $56 @ radio shack.
  it works really well, and reads low ohms.


----------



## beeman458

Shimm wrote:
   
  You have to look here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/426049/making-a-decent-hi-fi-power-supply-for-xonar-essence/270#post_6380209
   
  Hi Shimm.
   
  Thanks for the link but any sort of board adjustments are way above my pay grade.  If it can't be done by swapping out a power supply, power cord or interconnect, I'm going have to switch over to DAC's and Headphone Amps.
   
  My stated goal when lighting this candle was to improve the sound quality coming from the computer while listening at very low levels (currently listening at a sound level of 4/100), yet keep the desk clear of extraneous desktop boxes in the process.  When looking at some of the gear available online, it's hard to keep focused on the original goal of "no extra desktop boxes."
   
  Ooooh, shiny.


----------



## gwillys

Quote: 





beeman458 said:


> *disclaimer:* i really dont know what i'm doing,
> 
> Neither do I.
> 
> That's why I'm paying somebody to swap out the power supply so if there are any problems, they'll know what to do.  I'm in it for the music and I'm happy to leave the rest of it to those who are eminently more qualified.


 
   
  but, you know a lot less than me 
   
  i suspect any improvement in SQ that you detect will be placebo, unless your current psu has problems.
  your approach does nothing to address the issues with this card, which are namely - cheap components and 12v opa power supply.
   
  most certainly, if you cant figure out how to upgrade your psu yourself, all this is over your head.
  better to go buy a box.
  but i wish you luck


----------



## beeman458

*i suspect any improvement in SQ that you detect will be placebo, unless your current psu has problems.*
*your approach does nothing to address the issues with this card, which are namely - cheap components and 12v opa power supply.*
   
  Cheap, easy and happy; works for me.  Maybe folks can write ASUS with their concerns about the quality of ASUS's product as not being an EE myself, I find that the Essence ST/STX to be the best thing currently happening for an add-on board.  That's why we bought and installed it.
   
  FWIW, the computer box came with an even cheaper made soundcard on the MoBo with a cheaply made power supply and power cord attached to a power strip that has a couple of wall warts attached so as to add their brand of interference.  Don't see anything wrong with stepping up the quality of the internal power supply, improving the internal computer cabling in the process and the addition of a quality built power cord, that looks way cool attached to it's own outlet.  The point, anything done will be an improvement over the original equipment.
   
  Just sharing what I'm doing to tweak this card.
   
*most certainly, if you cant figure out how to upgrade your psu yourself, all this is over your head.*
*better to go buy a box.*
   
  While the tech is swapping out the power supply, I'm making money, now that's smart.  If I'm swapping out the power supply, and dealing with the problems associated with the process, I'm not making money, now that's stupid.  Let's see, smart or stupid?
   
*but i wish you luck *
   
  Thanks!


----------



## raff012

hi all, just checking if it is possible to replace the headphone amp by replacing the  (opamp?) as mine has stopped working and only gives off static, although the line out/ 2speaker setup still works very well i might add. If anyone knows what needs to be replaced i would appreciate your help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## gwillys

@ beeman458,
   
ok, my point is that you are not tweaking anything. your upgrading your psu, period.
zero effect on SQ.
   
i just dont think its a good idea to give people the impression that this will improve the audio output, because it wont.


----------



## InFn-0

Hey guys, got my stx card few days back. I guess i am the first person who likes the stock opamps better than LME49720NA's; they were too laid back with my headphones. Anyway, happy customer here. Hope fully i ll be able to try more opamps and keep posting impressions!


----------



## beeman458

*ok, my point is that you are not tweaking anything. your upgrading your psu, period.*
*zero effect on SQ.*
   
Not true.
   
Upgrading your power supply to a better made PSU, cleaning up internal cabling, changing out your power cord for a better made product, keeping away from transformers by connecting to a separate wall plug and reducing outside influences such as RFI/EMI, is tweaking.  All this shows up on the oscilloscope as a cleaner (neutral/flat) signal.  Nothing voodoo about my above.  It's just that what I'm doing is not "your" idea of what tweaking is, but it don't mean I'm not tweaking.  Clean power is verifiably, a good thing.
   
This is a sound card that's completely and totally dependent on the inner-workings of the computer box as well as it's external power source; the power company.  There's even a requirement that it have it's own molex connector which makes the sound card, computer power supply dependent.  And the point that the sound card plugs into the MoBo makes the Essence STX, MoBo power supply dependent as well.  You can't separate the sound card out from the computer as they're one.  The Essence STX is not a stand alone product like a portable, battery operated DAC/Amp because the STX is part of a chain.  Each part or product in the chain, dependent on the other.  Improving on this chain is a good thing.
   
*i just dont think its a good idea to give people the impression that this will improve the audio output, because it wont.*
   
As I wrote earlier, I stay away from the zip cord debate as there's no point.  What I'm doing with the power being supplied to the Essence STX sound card (noisy vs clean) has nothing to do with the zip cord debate.


----------



## gwillys

very anecdotal, as you predicted


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





shimm said:


> You have to look here: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/426049/making-a-decent-hi-fi-power-supply-for-xonar-essence/270#post_6380209


 

 Excellent, thanks for pointing this out.


----------



## jalyst

gwillys said:


> i'm not really qualified, but:  1. recap the card - replace all nichicon caps with elna silmic II. remember polarity, its marked on the board.
> 
> 2. install 3 burson dual op amps. always know where pin 1 is.
> 
> IMHO, steps 1 & 2 should be mandatory. better to spend money here than on a exotic psu for your computer. i have a antec neo 400w, and its just fine. 100+ hr burn-in for elna & burson.


 
   
  Okay this sounds pretty straight-forward.... in theory  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  What sources did you reference to get inspiration for all the mods you're planning?
  Oh I never planned to get the X-650 because I thought it'd have a dramatic impact on SQ.



> 3. replace the 7812 and 7805 surface mount regulators. this might be tricky. i had to pull out a macro photography set up just to identify them. desoldering these requires some practice, if you mess up the pads or pull a trace, your screwed. i have a dexa for the 7805, and a burson for the 7812.
> i was able to mount the dexa in the original position by drilling a 1mm hole in the ground pad and bending the legs for a quasi surface mount. the burson is big, so i installed pins through the board, and connections are on the back. .85mm holes and trimmed cap legs. i'll get some silver wire from the local jeweler and make something more durable. still havent figured out where to mount the burson regulator board. right now its just hanging off the card. i have a milling machine and some delrin, and might fabricate a bracket for it.
> i cant teach you how to solder/desolder, but theres plenty of info out there. tear something apart for a pcb to practice on.
> find the data sheets/diagrams for components. triple check everything, no mistakes allowed.


 
   
  What are these surface mount regulators you refer to & what's a macro photography set-up (I can guess, but not 100% sure)
  The Dex and Burson you refer to are extra OPAMPS right?
  It sounds like I'm nowhere near as well equipped as you, no soldering gear yet & definitely no milling machine!
   
  So as to avoid hijacking this thread too much, do you have a dedicated thread documenting you progress?
  I believe there's multiple others on this forum geared to the more 'hard-core' mods that you're considering.
  I may be wrong but I think this one is more focussed on OPAMP swapping, software, & just general chit-chat.



> next up for me is taking a stab at a isolated power supply. interested to see what effect 18v has on the opa's.
> heres what i've ordered: http://www.mastechpowersupply.com/dc-power-supply/linear-power-supply/mastech-regulated-variable-dc-power-supply-hy3003d-30v-3a/prod_2.html
> 
> *disclaimer:* i really dont know what i'm doing, i just got my first multimeter  , a extech 22-816, on clearance for $56 @ radio shack.
> it works really well, and reads low ohms.


 
   
  Yeah I'm interested in the concept of an isolated & better regulated/conditioned power source too.
  But I would prefer if it can be done in such a way that it's still integrated into my HTPC's chasis!!
  LOL, about the only useful gear I have for such an undertaking is a multi-meter!
   
  Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## shimm

Quote: 





beeman458 said:


> Thanks for the link but any sort of board adjustments are way above my pay grade.  If it can't be done by swapping out a power supply, power cord or interconnect, I'm going have to switch over to DAC's and Headphone Amps.


 

 Okay, i just wanted you to know the problem isn't outside the card but inside. Don't waste your money.


----------



## gwillys

@ jalyst,
  dots show regulators 7805 & 7812. best to leave them unless you learn some soldering tech and develop
  a strategy for replacement.
   

   
http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=70
   
http://bursonaudio.com/burson_super_regulator.htm
   
  (the guy thats 'tweaking' his card by rewiring the grid would do well to check the above links 
   
  in any event, if you mod the card, the first thing i'd do is recap. cheap & easy - instant gratification & improves with burn-in.
  i'd recommend recapping/burn-in before rolling opa's. the silmic II's change the character of the card pretty dramatically &
  you'll then have a very good foundation for other mod's. can't stress this enough - recap!!
   
  i used the dexa 7805 because it's fixed and compact, and the burson 7812 because it's adjustable and better suited for analog.


----------



## beeman458

*Okay, i just wanted you to know the problem isn't outside the card but inside.*
   
  I never wrote there was a problem but time will tell as to any sound quality improvement regarding my efforts.
   
*Don't waste your money.*
   
  Don't worry, I'm not but thanks for the financial advice.


----------



## gwillys

jeez 
  in regards to the pre-edited post...
  kinda reminded me of hannibal lecter making dinner plans...

   
  i dont mean to discourage you, keep at it - you'll learn something.


----------



## beeman458

The post you're referring to was edited accordingly, nuff said.
   
*i dont mean to discourage you, keep at it - you'll learn something.*
   
  Thanks but so far, folks who have responded to my posts aren't here to share but are here to tell me how it is when that's not how it is.  So far, my limited experience, the prevailing attitude of posters here has not been encouraging.  I'd say my stay here will be short as I'm not here to be somebody's idea of a punching bag.


----------



## gwillys

ok bub, whatever trips yer trigger.
   
  If you don't want to believe me, ignore me


----------



## gwillys

here's my st mess. if it survives the power supply phase, i'll tidy it up, in a utility fashion.
  don't care much about how it looks, the sound is very, very good. night & day difference from stock.
   
  if you think that looks bad, you should see the crossovers (hi pass/low pass) for my polk monitor 30's. Obbligato gold & copper, erse pulsex, solens, claritycap sa, duelund resistors, jantzen 15ga coils. mounted on clipboards, bigger than the speakers  pretty funny looking. just 2 of the caps cost more than the speakers. but they sound great with a sub.
   
   my plan at the moment is to use a variable 0-30v regulated bench psu to power pins 4 & 8 of the 3 opa's.
  hopefully, this wont upset the card or mobo. the goal is to get 18v to the opa's.
   
  i really dont know what i'm doing. it would be really helpful if someone would chime in here before i blow something up


----------



## Greeny24

Hi, I have an STX with no mod's powering the K702's. I really need better amplification for these phones, and was wondering if it would be a good setup to have the STX (with line out/rca) to a headphone amp. Or would I just be amping a crap audio feed? I was also going to maybe upgrade the opamps, but I've read for the K702's the default ones are good enough.
   
  Gah it gets so confusing, every time I come onto head-fi I end up going to bed at 4am. Too many options.


----------



## Jd007

The STX line out to a headphone amp setup would work like a charm, as the strongest part of the card is the DAC section. Also upgrading opamps always helps, as the stock ones (in the I/V section especially) are pretty bad (after you've heard some better ones).


----------



## dex85

i'm using STX->amp->K701. no complaints here, but i did have to change the buffer to get the K701 going. imo JRC2114D in I/V works very good with K701.
  Quote: 





greeny24 said:


> Hi, I have an STX with no mod's powering the K702's. I really need better amplification for these phones, and was wondering if it would be a good setup to have the STX (with line out/rca) to a headphone amp. Or would I just be amping a crap audio feed? I was also going to maybe upgrade the opamps, but I've read for the K702's the default ones are good enough.
> 
> Gah it gets so confusing, every time I come onto head-fi I end up going to bed at 4am. Too many options.


----------



## gwillys

Mastech HY3003D power supply arrived a couple hours ago. burson opamps are happily singing away @ 16v, drawing .18 amp.

 i'll keep it there until i find out if 18v is safe. the caps on the card are 16v.

 external psu + & - connected to output & ground where the original 7812 regulator had been. in other words, i replaced the 7812 regulator with the power supply, leaving the input pad vacant. 

 molex connected to card as normal.

 no smoke or fire. no anomalies with the computer so far. seems rock solid.

 only problem is, the fan of the new psu is LOUD. gotta sort that out  the rest of the system is pretty much silent.

 anyway, this opens the door for a less drastic (& quieter) approach.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> @ jalyst,
> dots show regulators 7805 & 7812. best to leave them unless you learn some soldering tech and develop
> a strategy for replacement.
> 
> ...


 
   
  So the two links are for the two OPAMPS you're soldering onto those two regulator points?
  So Silmic II's are just some type of high quality capacitor that I'd replace all my existing capacitors with?
  I don't get why you have solder the dex and burson onto those two points when there's already sockets specifically for opamps.
  Is it just to increase the overall resistance/opamp count?


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> here's my st mess. if it survives the power supply phase, i'll tidy it up, in a utility fashion.
> don't care much about how it looks, the sound is very, very good. night & day difference from stock.
> 
> if you think that looks bad, you should see the crossovers (hi pass/low pass) for my polk monitor 30's. Obbligato gold & copper, erse pulsex, solens, claritycap sa, duelund resistors, jantzen 15ga coils. mounted on clipboards, bigger than the speakers  pretty funny looking. just 2 of the caps cost more than the speakers. but they sound great with a sub.
> ...


 

 LOL, serious franken-ST!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I'd love to offer some advice but I'd definitely cause someting to blow-up if I made any suggestions!
  I don't suppose you could use mspaint or similar to highlight your mods and they're name/function in that picture?


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> Mastech HY3003D power supply arrived a couple hours ago. burson opamps are happily singing away @ 16v, drawing .18 amp.
> 
> i'll keep it there until i find out if 18v is safe. the caps on the card are 16v.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah now I see (basically) what you're using the 7812 mount pt for.
  Essentially another feed point for power.....  It all seems rather scary LOL.


----------



## gwillys

@ jalyst - you got it
   
external psu is silenced 

 ok, so far:

 1. recap - replace nichicon fg with elna rsf

 2. install burson opamps

 3. replace smt 7805 with dexa +5v regulator (if you dont go the external psu route, you could also use the dexa +12v in place of the smt 7812)

 4. remove smt 7812 and connect external psu (regulated! - you can use a burson regulator here) at that point for 16v to analog section. exceeding 16v will shorten lifespan of 16v caps. on the other hand, i've read that the closer you get to a caps voltage rating, the less distortion they produce.



 looks like around $525usd invested so far. that includes the card and $100 for the mastech hy3003d. but i've had $500 worth of fun, so no question i got my moneys worth.

 it sounds great - losing track of time. thats a pretty good gain considering that out of the box, the st hurt my ears. literally.

 so now, i'm going to look into the xo/clock, which i know absolutely nothing about, except that its hard to remove  no hurry on that.

 i'll put up pics when i get some.
  =======================
  btw, as far as powering the bursons: heres my power supply, more or less
   

 see the knob second in from right? just a little turn takes it from 16 to 18v, or anywhere 0 to 30v. now...you would'nt think that someone such as myself would be engaging in such careless action, would you?


----------



## beeman458

Today I received and replaced the computer power supply and it made a "huge" difference in the sound quality and the emotional impact of the music being ported over to the HD-650's.
   




   
  (And I don't give a snap what the anti-cable crowd has to say on the matter, so don't bother as I'm sharing for those who care.)
   
  I also replaced the power cord today with a ten foot, Audioquest, NGR-3 and it sucked the life out of the music and left it flat and emotionally lifeless.  I plugged the original three foot, two dollar and ninety-five cent computer power cord back in and the life was immediately restored back into the music.
   
  Go figure, a three dollar power cord whipped on a two hundred dollar audiophile grade power cord.  Well, I now have a new ten foot Christmas tree light, extension cord.
   
  In about two weeks, I should receive the custom HD-650 headphone cables that I ordered from Double Helix Cables so it's time will tell on if these cables will provide an emotional uplift over today's emotional uplift.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> @ jalyst - you got it
> 
> external psu is silenced
> 
> ...


 

 Excellent!!
  If you ever have time you should start a dedicated thread which documents your progress in detail.
  It would encourage others to follow in your footsteps, or at least adopt many similar approaches.
   
  Good-luck with the xo/clock, although I'm not sure how much modding it will affect overall SQ.
  No doubt what you've done so far would've already had a big impact!


----------



## gwillys

@ jalyst
   
  that would be the blind leading the blind 
  this set up could crash & burn. i'll tell you one thing, i dont leave the system powered and unattended.
   
  i dunno about this whole digital thing. probably the sound i'm after can't be had in the digital realm. the input to my amp is greatly improved, but no doubt, it sounds digital.
  oh well, i still have a decent turntable, cartridges & lp's. thank god, emotionally speaking, the turntable has a cheap 3' power cord.
   
  now i'm trying to figure out if i should use a decoupling cap where the ext. psu connects to the card. and then, what kind of cap & value.
  or maybe run the juice thru the burson regulator, which i'm told, provides a type of decoupling. and then theres the two 470uf caps i put on the card - maybe that wasnt such a good idea. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. & theres so much bad info out here, not to mention posers.
   
  man, this stuff is not easy for a dummy to sort out. about the time you think your getting a handle on something, some little tidbit of reality enters the equation and shoots the whole thing down 
   
  wish i could go back to my stereo 400 & maggie 2.5r's.


----------



## gwillys

i just implemented the burson  regulator.
 
external psu to burson to card at the original 7812 position.
ext psu + to burson input, - grounded to burson board. burson output & ground to card.
 
i was careful to adjust things to get 16v output on the burson. right now, 22v input and the heatsink is slightly warm.
 
as far as i can tell, it takes at least 22v input on the burson regulator to get 16v out.
 
big improvement, really cleaned up hf/mids. much easier to listen to.
i think i can live with this.
   
so, the external psu is not a solution in itself. burson to the rescue.


----------



## shimm

gwillys, now you're ready to upgrade XO. I'll show you some pics (and other info) from russian forum if you wish.


----------



## gwillys

shimm, that would be great!


----------



## shimm

First, you should _carefully_ remove this quartz:
   

   
  1. one guy used this XO:
  24576 кГц........"FXO-BCF"...................."FULL".............. ; T/HC 5В.................-40~85C 50ppm 10T/HC30pF 45/55%
   

  
  2. other guy used (i think) this XO:
http://ru.farnell.com/fox/fxo-hc736r-24-576/osc-5x7mm-smd-cer-24-576mhz/dp/1641004?Ntt=FXO-HC736R-24.576
   

   
  pin1 - not used, pin2 > GND, pin3 > OUT, pin4 > +3,3V
   
  Benefits in both cases: more detailed sound (thats why need PS washed out first), SS wider.


----------



## gwillys

thanks shimm, thats a big help. i'm looking at the audiogd or maybe even burson. i'm still going to need help at any rate. not in a hurry though   any more info?


----------



## shimm

Ask and I'll try to help.


----------



## gwillys

Thank you.


----------



## gwillys

@ shimm,
   
  any tips on removal?
  this pic shows where the xo was removed. only 2 pads?


----------



## shimm

Yes, only 2 pads coz stok quartz is _quartz rezonator_, not XO. So, just like that guy did:
  if there is no special thermohair dryer the quartz resonator is necessary to unsolder with two soldering irons. Fix a card. Put a gumboil (only pure rosin in waterless spirit, without additives!) on resonator's connectors. To stings of soldering irons take a little solder (lead will mix with leadless and unsolder faster) and remove the resonator as tweezers. Hope it's not so difficalt to understand my english.


----------



## shimm

Also, look into this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433533/upgrading-the-crystal-x0-on-essence-stx/105#post_6002929 for details of *Thoppa*'s mod (but carefully coz he did some mistakes)


----------



## gwillys

thanks shimm 
  that will keep me busy for awhile.


----------



## jalyst

There's so many hard-core mods people are doing with these cards now it's hard to know where to start!
  I seem to recall a thread someone set-up a while back, where all the mods were being documented.
   
  It's main function was to act as central repository of all the mods out there.
  It wasn't aiming to document them in detail, but rather just introduce them, & then link to anywhere that has more detail.
   
  I've looked but can't find it, I don't suppose anyone can provide a link to it?
  I want to trawl the net & this forum for modz, and add any that aren't already mentioned in it.
   
  Then when I finally have time to get started on my modding, I'll have one place to reference!
   
  **update**
  I believe I have found it  
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/478473/asus-essence-st-fully-modified
  When I get closer to having time for modz, I will update/refine this thread.
  Then I will make my start  
  Much Kudos to thoppa for this bible!


----------



## gwillys

shimm,
  this pics arent mine, fotios (?) i think.
   
  i'll glue a paper clip to the quartz and suspend it with a rubber band while desoldering 
  just slight upwards pressure.
  this is looking a little more straight forward.
   
  correct me if i'm wrong. if i have a xo which has an isolated power supply, there will be only one connection to the cards clock pad at the output.


----------



## shimm

1. Personally, I'm not sure it's so necessary to be care about this quartz. You don't need it any more, right? Just my thoughts.
  2. If your XO has isolated power supply it still need 2 connections to the card: GND and OUT. GND will be only common point between card PS and XO PS. I think so.


----------



## gwillys

makes sense, sounds good. i'll order the xo & a regulator for it. i found a bonus fixed 27v tap on my external power supply maybe i can use 
   
  probably a week to delivery, i'll let you know how it goes - thanks.


----------



## shimm

*gwillys*, we (mostly me) forgot about one important thing - _wires_ from external XO to the board. Look at these _curve_ wires on the photo above.  It's more or less acceptable for PS, but I'm afraid with such curve wires it will be impossible to keep _clock edges _in good condition. Clock edges are more important even than ppm. So, you have to use conductors as short and direct as possible.


----------



## gwillys

got it. thanks shimm. & i'll use silver wire


----------



## whitemonkey

I just wanted to thank DEX85 for helping me out with opamps for the Xonar ST.
  I'm using my Xonar to output to my Heed Canamp and through my K701.
   
  I have tried 7920NA in the buffer, and there was already an improvement in sound quality over stock.
  Then I tried 7920HA in the buffer, oh boy, what a delightful surprise. I didn't think the sound will improve further after trying the NA version but I was wrong.
   
  Bottom line, I very much recommend the 7920HA in the buffer for all the people with my setup. I am very pleased with the results, the harsh highs from stock were eliminated, sound stage is much better, overall I it's like I got a new sound card!
   
  Thank you!
   
  P.S.
  At the moment the opamp is mounted directly on the card with no adapter, I have already ordered an adapter and will get it soldered asap.


----------



## raisedbywolves

alright, i hope this doesn't make me sound completely idiotic, but i bought this card just last week ... love it from what i've heard so far listening through the headphone out with my lowly nuforce ne-7m's. the one thing, though, that i can't quite figure out is ... how do i lower the volume?!? i'm using the beta bitperfect asio in foobar and the only way i can figure out to lower volume is to lower it within foobar. i was hoping i could set the base level lower somehow, but nothing in the windows mixer or asus xonar panel seems to do anything.


----------



## Jd007

You can control the volume by turning the virtual volume knob in Xonar Audio Center.


----------



## wasp131

the virtual volume knob in Xonar Audio Center will not work with  the beta driver,its not supposed to.
  if not outputting to a separate amp ,foobar's volume control is all you will have.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Yes, if you are using the Beta drivers with an ASIO output plugin then the drivers will bypass any processing done by the card.  If you don't want this just change output plugins..


----------



## raisedbywolves

ah ... well, i was under the impression that the bitperfect asio was the best way to go, but it's ear-splittingly loud unless i turn down the volume in foobar. but i'm not sure if i wanna do that since so many people seem to say that worsens the sound quality.


----------



## walsh

I don't see why turning down the volume in foobar should worsen the sound quality.


----------



## Nebby

Digital attenuation technically loses bits as you lower the volume, but I believe the general consensus is that the changes shouldn't be audible unless you're listening at excessive volume levels.


----------



## walsh

So technically it's best to leave the player volume at full and alter the volume on your amplifier?


----------



## kinonotabi

I've tried some players with ASIO bit-perfect auto sampling with result :
   

 Foobar2000 during playback with ASIO output device will halted some Windows XP commands (control panel, some programs via windows explorer, printer & faxes, etc) until I stop playback then command continued again.
 Winamp not compatible with this new driver. ASIO plugin from Otachan didn't work, it detect but no sound came out, with Christian Budde's plugin it had stuttering sound.
 Last uLilith, best for 44100Hz it but had problem when ASIO change frequency automatically. It acted as speed was slowed every auto sampling active either up or down sampling. So I must choose wisely my song collection with 44100Hz only to be played.
   
  Is there any way to use this beta STX driver without problems under Windows XP? at least Asus released bit-perfect auto sampling I had wait so long ... unfortunately not perfect yet


----------



## darekxan

Check this thread:
http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20100708193729359&SLanguage=en-us&page=1&board_id=21&model=Xonar%20Essence%20STX
   
  New build from Xense modified to support STX. 
   
  Tested on win7.64 with fb2k and ASIO
  So far so good. No clicks/shuttering.
   
  Finally some better ASIO-supporting build.


----------



## raisedbywolves

just a few questions i'm hoping one of you guys can answer ...
   
  1. would rca cables from speakers to the rca inputs in the st be the best way to go as far as hooking up speakers to the soundcard?
  2. what makes more of a difference in sound ... to upgrade speaker cable or the rca cables? or is it more or less the same?


----------



## ROBSCIX

1. You need an amplifier in between unless you are taking about powered monitors..etc.  Since the card has RCA output, if your speakers have RCA inputs then use RCA patch cables.
  2.  There is a big debate all the time regarding cables,  just make sure you are using  quality cables and you will be fine.  No garbage and no high price snake oil cables and you will be fine.


----------



## raisedbywolves

they are powered monitors.
  and i meant more as in ... the speakers i have come with speaker wire to connect them and then i'd go rca cables into the st. so i'm just wondering which, if i had to choose, would make more of a difference in sound quality to start with. i'll eventually get around to replacing both, but i was wondering whre to start.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Provided they are reasonable quality, I doubt you will notice a difference.


----------



## germanium

Output impedance on the Essense cards is sufficiently low that there should be no audible loss no matter the cable. The greatest loss in the case of the Essense cards is the output coupling caps. I run mine through modified M-Audio BX5's ( semi pro monitors which whem modded are about the most open sounding speaker I have heard in a long time especially when you consider price). If there was a problem with different cables because of output impedance being high interacting with high capacitance cables you would hear it with this setup but such is not the case here. The output impedance is low enough that there is no interaction in the audio band even with high capacitance cables. I still avoid them though in all my other equipment because they have higher output impedance than the essense card does.


----------



## raisedbywolves

ah, alright ... 'cause i was looking at getting these: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1283691608&/Soundsilver-Dual-Silver-Fantas
  and this: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1284320308&/Supra-Ply-3.4--$13/-meter--ult
   
  for my audioengine a2's, thinking maybe i could squeeze a little extra out of them coupled with the st, but if not, i'll probably just buy some cheapo cables from monoprice or something.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





raisedbywolves said:


> ah, alright ... 'cause i was looking at getting these: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1283691608&/Soundsilver-Dual-Silver-Fantas
> and this: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1284320308&/Supra-Ply-3.4--$13/-meter--ult
> 
> for my audioengine a2's, thinking maybe i could squeeze a little extra out of them coupled with the st, but if not, i'll probably just buy some cheapo cables from monoprice or something.


 
   
  The speaker wires look good as does the RCA cables but the RCA cables would definately be overkill especially at full price. Even at the current price they are overkill as the Essense soundcard does not really need anything special to sound great due to relatively low output impedance (around 100 ohms). If it was 600 ohms I would definately have a different opinion though as you would in fact start to hear the impedance-cable capacitance interaction. In that case instruments like well recorded piano start to loose some of thier lifelike sound. At 1000ohms the interaction described above really gets out of hand & even with medium capacitace cable there is substantial loss, Pianos start sounding quite dull compared to the best possible reproduction.


----------



## raisedbywolves

so, any pair of rca cables should be fine, but would the speaker wire actually make a difference, going up in quality over the stock speaker wire? to put my thoughts in layman's terms, i understand what you're saying about the impedance basically canceling out any usefulness of better rca cables since they're going from the speakers to the card itself, but given that the speakers are connected to each other by speaker wire, would that operate independently of the st and therefore be worth doing an upgrade on?


----------



## kinonotabi

I've tried many cables interconnect and speaker from cooper, silver, ofc, combination, braided, anti, diy, cat5e, etc, etc without significant effect at sound quality (rolling with friends'). Sometimes I felt different but most of it doesn't and I though that just a placebo for me even if it had real different it might be too little to my ears can hear.
   
  But when I change amplifier's capacitors on power supply to audiograde ones and use very fast diode it has huge different ... really a different that my ears can recognize sound quality improvement with minimum price than cables 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... thas a worth upgrade IMHO


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





raisedbywolves said:


> so, any pair of rca cables should be fine, but would the speaker wire actually make a difference, going up in quality over the stock speaker wire? to put my thoughts in layman's terms, i understand what you're saying about the impedance basically canceling out any usefulness of better rca cables since they're going from the speakers to the card itself, but given that the speakers are connected to each other by speaker wire, would that operate independently of the st and therefore be worth doing an upgrade on?


 


 Speaker wire may have a subtle difference especially if the damping is effected to any significant degree, however unless your going from 24 gauge bell wire to 10 gauge monster cable the difference would be quite subtle.Tranny amps tend to be more sensitive to this than tube amps by the way. On a tube amp you can get away with bell wire & not have any noticable difference. Their output impedance tends to be high enough to swamp any difference in the resistance of the wire.


----------



## gwillys

@ shimm ,
   
  the burson clock got here today, and thanks to your help, very easy to install.
  astonishing 
  24/96 is blowing me away.
  when i get everything properly mounted, i'll post pic's.
   
  thanks again


----------



## shimm

*gwillys*, good luck with mounting.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Another user, built a secondary platform of plexi-glass using stand-offs.  He attached the new clock to the platform.


----------



## gwillys

thanks, i have a plan, i think 
  cant get over the gain from the clock.
  here she is in rough form. beat up, big & ugly, but sounds beautiful. i call her suzy b.


----------



## gwillys

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Another user, built a secondary platform of plexi-glass using stand-offs.  He attached the new clock to the platform.


 


 yes, i saw that. looks nice. mine wont look so nice, but man, does it sound good. i really cant get over it 
  i'm so glad i replaced the clock, and it was the easiest mod.
  after a reduction at every step, the edge is gone. pristine sound.
   
  just the 2n7 caps now, & i'm done. i think.
   
  thanks to Jack @ burson for all his advice, and supplying the xo. great outfit.
  and shimm for his help here.
  =======================
   this morning i discovered a big screw up. when replacing the smt voltage regulators, i damaged something (soldering iron), and the 5v & 12v are reversed on the card. this didnt effect the 12v side because im using a external psu there. but the 5v side was shooting 12v to the 5v regulator. it worked, but the regulator was very hot. too much voltage - not good.

 so, rather than wait for it to fail, i clipped the input to the 7805 and connected it to 5v at the molex. but this had a bad effect on sound. then i found 5v on a leg of one of the os-con caps. moved connection there and all is good.

 the burson clock is remarkable. never expected such improvement at this point, after the other mod's. so many ways to upgrade this card. it's huge and heavy now, but the SQ is pretty much pristine. never guessed a sound card could be so good.


----------



## shimm

*gwillys*, i can't see details of your mounting, but hope everything is done properly and you really got close to a music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  BTW, PS of DAC (1792) isn't washed out properly. Because of that or anything else DAC _has HF noise_ on its outputs. Some guys advice to use capasitor (film) shorts about 1000pF between pins 2,3 and 5,6 of I/Vs.


----------



## gwillys

thanks shimm. i used a dexa 7805 . that should help with noise, ripple, etc.
  what do you think?
   
http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=70
   
  1mm silver wire for xo connection just got here, so i'll make permanent mounts soon.


----------



## shimm

I [size=x-small]believe [/size]dexa 7805 helps with 5v, but 1792 has [size=x-small][size=x-small]5-V Analog,[/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small] 3.3-V Digital [/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small](3.3V from PCI). There ara a lot of [size=x-small]electrolytic caps around 1792 and they are _too slow_ for HF noise from PCI. [/size][/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]Take a look at these caps shorts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Certainly, i wouldn't say you need all of them. [/size][/size][/size]
  [size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small][/size][/size][/size]


----------



## gwillys

wow. thats interesting. i have 4 relcap rte 2700pf coming for the four 2n7 around the buffer. the others are at least partially addressed by the burson regulator & silmic II?
   
  i'll have to study this for awhile. those are bypass caps? what kind/value?
   
   --> i've seen 3.3v super regulators. maybe just figure out where to insert it?
http://www.belleson.com/


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> yes, i saw that. looks nice. mine wont look so nice, but man, does it sound good. i really cant get over it
> i'm so glad i replaced the clock, and it was the easiest mod.
> after a reduction at every step, the edge is gone. pristine sound.
> 
> ...


 
  Provided it works and doesn't short out anything all is good. Enjoy.


----------



## jalyst

I really want to do everything gwilly's done & more if it's possible....
  But I've so many other projects I need to complete 1st that I'm not sure I'll ever get to it!
  Hopefully the card in it's standard form will be good enough for the time being


----------



## Dalamar

Quote: 





raisedbywolves said:


> ah, alright ... 'cause i was looking at getting these: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablintr&1283691608&/Soundsilver-Dual-Silver-Fantas
> and this: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?cablspkr&1284320308&/Supra-Ply-3.4--$13/-meter--ult
> 
> for my audioengine a2's, thinking maybe i could squeeze a little extra out of them coupled with the st, but if not, i'll probably just buy some cheapo cables from monoprice or something.


 

 Monoprice cables are completely transparent, any perceived differences are placebo.
   
  The only thing that matters with speaker wire is resistance, capacitance, and inductance.
  So just get any twisted 12 guage and use that. It costs $1 per foot max, which is reasonable, unlike the $13/ft crap you linked.


----------



## xbiker321

I'm new to the audiophile scene. I purchased a pair of Denon D2000's a couple months back. My laptop somehow drove them pretty decent but my desktop (Asus P5E w/ SupremeFX II Audio Card) isn't very good at all for these headphones.
   
  I was contemplating this STX since my PCI slot is right above my ATI 3870 and that card gets darn hott. I have two in my system (crossfire) and the other one actually hangs over the other PCI slot.
   
  SO I just wanted to hear some of your opinions and thoughts on what setup I should use with my D2000's...before I throw down 200 bones on this card.
   
  I have heard the debate that the ST is actually better but I feel the PCI Express slot will be a better home for my sound card.


----------



## gwillys

Quote: 





shimm said:


> I [size=x-small]believe [/size]dexa 7805 helps with 5v, but 1792 has [size=x-small][size=x-small]5-V Analog,[/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small] 3.3-V Digital [/size][/size]*[size=x-small][size=x-small](3.3V from PCI). There ara a lot of [size=x-small]electrolytic caps around 1792 and they are _too slow_ for HF noise from PCI. [/size][/size][/size]
> [size=x-small][size=x-small][size=x-small]Take a look at these caps shorts
> 
> 
> ...


 


 thanks shimm. can you think of a way to use a 3.3v super regulator, supplied by 5v molex, to address this more directly?
  is there a 3.3v smt regulator on the card? U21?


----------



## shimm

Quote:


gwillys said:


> ...the others are at least partially addressed by the burson regulator & silmic II?


 

 I forgot you've changed the caps already. Ok, lets say you have good PS now. Best caps are BG - they have internal additional caps for HF noise, but i doubt it's possible to find them for good price.
  DAC 1792 itself makes HF noise while work no matter PS good or not. So, it's may be usefull to kill that noise before it will come into I/V by caps shorts as i've said above. Some good film caps 1000pF.
  
  Quote: 





> --> i've seen 3.3v super regulators. maybe just figure out where to insert it?
> http://www.belleson.com/


 

 One russian guy did completely separated PS (5v, 15v, 3.3v). I wouldn't say it's easy to repeat. Sometimes it's hard to cut off internal PS (Molex, PCI) from external PS. So better skeep this for a while.


----------



## gwillys

thats great. and very sensible, if you know how to do it


----------



## gwillys

@ shimm - do you know where he tied in the 3.3v regulator?


----------



## shimm

No, sorry.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> @ shimm - do you know where he tied in the 3.3v regulator?


 

 Do you have a Multimeter? -If you do then you can trace any circuit.


----------



## gwillys

yes, but i cant get to that area of the card. i think i've spotted it (smt 3.3v).
   
  i have another case where the mobo mounts horizontal with full access, maybe i'll give that a shot.
  and it would also be very easy to mount the computer psu externally.
   
  all these power issue's have me looking at dac's. at least, because of what i've learned, i know what to look for.
  no shortage of issues there, either 
  keces & audiogd look interesting.


----------



## shimm

*gwillys*, i don't think it's good idea to mess with PCI. Using some good short caps for 3,3v will be enough, IMO.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





gwillys said:


> yes, but i cant get to that area of the card. i think i've spotted it (smt 3.3v).
> 
> i have another case where the mobo mounts horizontal with full access, maybe i'll give that a shot.
> and it would also be very easy to mount the computer psu externally.
> ...


 
  External is not always better just for the fact it is external gear.  There can be issues with both internal and external gear...
  Good luck on your DAC hunt


----------



## gwillys

Quote: 





shimm said:


> *gwillys*, i don't think it's good idea to mess with PCI. Using some good short caps for 3,3v will be enough, IMO.


 


 ok, thanks shimm.


----------



## gwillys

Quote: 





robscix said:


> External is not always better just for the fact it is external gear.  There can be issues with both internal and external gear...
> Good luck on your DAC hunt


 


 thanks, just seems like a decent one would be easier to mod


----------



## ROBSCIX

What's a decent one?


----------



## gwillys

i was hoping maybe you'd tell me 
  most interesting so far is audiogd - dac3 if i remember right. keces 131, and then  HIFIDIY.NET Mini USB DAC + Headphone Amplifier MK2 on the cheaper side. dacmagic. heck. i dont know.


----------



## joms

I tried to read the whole thread but there's just too much information and I don't have that much time left to order my opamp. You see, I'm from the Philippines and there is no opamp store here. Fortunately though, the aunt of my friend is in the USA now but will be leaving soon. I have bought the Asus Xonar Essence ST with H6 card and had it shipped to my friend.
   
  What I want now is to upgrade the opamp from stock and I am willing to spend only $30-$40 for all the opamps that I will change. 
   
  In this regard, can you suggest to me a good combination of opamp that I can use. I understand that this depends on the system and is subjective in nature but for us unfortunate guys in the 3rd world, we can only rely on forum reviews/recommendations. I don't want to buy a lot of opamps. Only 3 or maybe 4 (if i need to change the subwoofer out of the H6).
   
  My system:
  Computer
  Speakers = Audioengine 2 or 5
  Subs = Velodyne impact 10
  Sounds = pop/jazz/mellow sounds (no rock/trance/etc)
   
  Please recommend me what I should put in my IV / bufffer / subwoofer out
   
  From my readings, i've come to look at :
   

 OPA2137P
 
 LME49720NA
 
  OPA2228
  2107

 
 LT1057
   
  I was also interested with the 2xLME49720NA + LME49710 but I dont have any soldering skills so I need to stick with DIP8 opamps.
   
  Also, are these the best place to order?

 http://www.newark.com http://search.digikey.com
   
  I can pay via paypal or cc.
   
  Thanks a ton. I hope you can help me as soon as possible as I don't have that much time to order.


----------



## cent

why those opamps on I/V hotter than buffer? especially LME49720HA.
  I just burnt my opa228pa on I/V, is it too hot or not supported?
  once booted into windows, xonar trigger and pop at the speaker then no more sound.
  how many LT1028 do I need to put on I/V, two or four?


----------



## jazzsoul

Hey, 
  I've been a member for a month or two, but I have been aware of your site for years.  I wish to upgrade my sound card.  I have been using the Hercules Game Theater XP ever since it first came out.  My main reasoning for that card was the break out box with RCA inputs.  I digitized a lot of my extensive jazz LP collection.  Of course, back in 2001 and 2002, there were not many top quality choices for sound cards, at least for the consumer.  I guess back then, other than the Sound Blaster Audigy and the Game Theater, XP, that was it!  I have recently been researching sound cards.  I have read that the Auzen X-Fi Home Theater   has gotten some good reviews.  I do like the E-Mu cards but don't like the lack of PCIe interface. My motherboard  nnhhhbgbhgghas limitedPCI slots.hhhas limited PCI slots. I am setting up my computer for the release of the Ceton Digital Cable card to watch digital cable through my computer as well as the primary use of audio in my hi fi system.  I have read glowing praise for the Asus Essence STX .  My question is can the Asus Essence STX          be used to digitize external audio material from my audio preamp out put?  Where are the RCA inputs on the card?  I haven't seen them in any photo. 
   
  BTW my headphones are Grado SR80 and Etymotic Research ER-6i


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cent said:


> why those opamps on I/V hotter than buffer? especially LME49720HA.
> I just burnt my opa228pa on I/V, is it too hot or not supported?
> once booted into windows, xonar trigger and pop at the speaker then no more sound.
> how many LT1028 do I need to put on I/V, two or four?


 
   
  They are not supported as drop ins, as the OPA228 are single channel opamps and the I/V section in the ST(X) is differential in design requiring dual channel opamps.
  The ST(X) only uses dual channel opamps, two for the I/V and one for the buffer. 
  If you want to try the LT1028, they are also single channel and they can be unstable in many designs.
  All opamps will generate some heat, some more then others depending on what job they are doing.  However, sometimes oscillation can cause excess heat because they are malfunctioning.
  You are using adapters with the 720HA's right?
  For reference, you want the OPA *2*228, those are dual channel, the 228 are single channels.


----------



## cent

I see, I thought I/V section can support single channel since it is seperated into L and R. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Not using adapters with 720HA because I found that the pin of adapters almost same as the 720HA's in a bar shape so wont be much difference if I just bend its leg with long nose plier and cut it short as DIP8 then fit firmly in the socket.
   
  I'm not sure whether it has oscillation or not.
  My "Celine Dion - My Heart Will Go On" sound a little bit slow and dull in the vocal, is it call laid back? Feel like she is powering down...
  720HA slightly hotter compares to the other DIP8 opamp in other section but it is hot enough to hurt my finger tips in I/V section.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cent said:


> I see, I thought I/V section can support single channel since it is seperated into L and R.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It is left and right but the I/V section is differential so it requires dual channel chips.  You're lucky you didn't fry your card with those single channel chips.
  Well you can install them like that but it is sloppy work and can be the cause of oscillation...


----------



## Dalamar

lm4562/720HA have a max supply current of 12ma, the stock ones have 16ma, the card's supply is 15ma apparently. The manual says so. Probably why they get too hot in I/V.
   
  That's why I leave the stock ones in i/v, since I can't hear a difference anyways. Anyone got measuring tools to see if lm4562/49720 are actually stable in i/v?
  Either way, I've read that they shouldn't be used as i/v since they were designed as buffers.
   
  Also: http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/pdf/_opamp_distortion.pdf_
_A lot of the opamps being used around here are crap. Like Burson/Audio GD's discretes._


----------



## cent

any recommendation between LM4562NA, LM4562HA and LME49720NA?
  I have 5 LME49720HA already, I hate its vocal laid back.
   
  Edited: just changed input coupling capacitors for treble opamp from electrolytic to metallized polypropylene film. LME49720HA's laid back reduced by a lots.


----------



## ROBSCIX

The LM4562 and the LME4972 are the SAME opamp just with different numbers.


----------



## xbiker321

I bought the STX and hooked up my D2000's to them, the highs, mids, everything sounds extra crisp except I miss the BOOM bass I used to have with these D2000's. The bass is there but it doesnt kick as hard as it used to.
   
  I have the STX set to Hi-Fi, Normal Gain, Headphone, 44.1k, 2 channel, and that's it. No Dolby settings or anything else.
   
  If I mess with the Equalizer I can get a little more kick out of the D2000's but I do loose a little quality of course.
   
  I'm listening to FLAC music with foobar2000. I've listened to all kinds of music and bit rates just to make sure.
   
   
   
  Any thoughts??


----------



## AhhHoNG

Who says messing with the EQ will lose quality? really? just adjust it slowly till the bass sounds perfect to your ears


----------



## Bojamijams

I wasn't a fan of the boomy bass on my D2000's as it overpowered the mids so the fact that the STX cleaned that up was a plus for me.  The onboard amplifier is known to be bright so that explains why you don't have the boom bass with it.  Changing the I/V opamps to 2137P's will get you some of that back but probably not as much as you are wanting.
  
  Quote: 





xbiker321 said:


> I bought the STX and hooked up my D2000's to them, the highs, mids, everything sounds extra crisp except I miss the BOOM bass I used to have with these D2000's. The bass is there but it doesnt kick as hard as it used to.
> 
> I have the STX set to Hi-Fi, Normal Gain, Headphone, 44.1k, 2 channel, and that's it. No Dolby settings or anything else.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bojamijams

Fidelity goes down. 
  
  Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Who says messing with the EQ will lose quality? really? just adjust it slowly till the bass sounds perfect to your ears


----------



## ROBSCIX

Also make sure your Bass redirection(Flexbass) is disabled or set properly for your headphones.


----------



## beeman458

*xbiker321 wrote*
   
*Any thoughts??*
   
  Make sure your amp and headphones are broke in before you start OpAmp rolling.
   




   
*Bojamijams wrote:*
   
*Fidelity goes down. *
   
  And the reason you need to be faithful to the original recording is?
   
  ???
   
  I submit that unless you're in the studio, listening live, anything close to real (live) goes south real fast.  And since, it seems, that the sum total of the audio signal stream is colored so much by all the different interactions, who knows what "fidelity" should sound like with the exception of the sound engineer's short term memory, which probably got killed with that night's partying.  So I say EQ away and have a good time doing it cause they're your ears, your listening experience and your musical bliss.


----------



## joms

whats a good opamp to put in the sub out opamp of the H6 card? Do they use 1 or 2 opamp?  I'm probably going to use this for my Xonar ST front opamps: 2x OPA2137P in the IVs plus 1x LME49720NA for the buffer.
   
  fronts will go to = audioengine 2
  subs will go to = Velodyne impact 12
   
  Thanks


----------



## ROBSCIX

OPA2227 is a nice one for bass IMO.


----------



## genclaymore

Other then OPA-Earth i have to remember which other op-amp has a sig that work very good for a AKG 702 so when it comes i will have it installed.


----------



## joms

Quote: 





robscix said:


> OPA2227 is a nice one for bass IMO.


 

 Thanks!. would you know if I need to buy 1 or 2 pcs of this for the H6? The OPA2227 doesn't need any adaptors or such right? thanks


----------



## ROBSCIX

Just one in the I/V section....


----------



## krisno

GUYS - anyone who have tried both. The HD2 vs Xonar ST - just stock - which is the brightest card(and harshest?)?.... is the Xonar ST same sound family as D1 and D2, therefore darker, or is it actually brighter or just as bright sounding than HD2??

   

  anyone can tell?


----------



## joms

Quote: 





robscix said:


> OPA2227 is a nice one for bass IMO.


 

 I kind of searched around the forums and read about the OPA2227. Not much people really like it. They say the OPA2228 performs better in all aspects even in the bass region. Do you think it would be better to use the OPA2228 or AD8066 or something else instead?
   
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Here are the comments i've read:
   
  OPA2227... cough, cough, puke...
   
  OPA2227 - terribly laid back, bass heavy, veiled and slow. Completely not my type
   
  OPA2228 - uncompensated alter ego of OPA2227 but totally different. deeper but not muddy like 2227's bass, actually very nice, lots of air in midrange and silky highs. Warm and natural. Just slightly laid back with delicate veil which pairs well with 2228's airy presentation. Electric guitars and female vocals sound nice and intimate. Very likable chip, but not for low gains. You can compensate its feedback loop with capacitors, but I don't like this method and find it degrading the sound a bit.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





joms said:


> I kind of searched around the forums and read about the OPA2227. Not much people really like it. They say the OPA2228 performs better in all aspects even in the bass region. Do you think it would be better to use the OPA2228 or AD8066 or something else instead?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Here are the comments i've read:
> ...


 

 You asked my opinion and I gave it. I have OPA2228's also.  I only use the OPA2227 for the subwoofer channel so much of the posted impressions are not valid.
  Use them or don't..it is a suggestion no hard and fast rules.


----------



## joms

yeah i asked for your opinion which is what i am asking again when i said "do you think it would be better to use the OPA2228 or AD8066 or something else instead?" The price of the OPA2227 is just the same as the OPA2228. Do you still stand on your opinion that the 2227 is better than the 2228 with regards to bass alone? Thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





joms said:


> yeah i asked for your opinion which is what i am asking again when i said "do you think it would be better to use the OPA2228 or AD8066 or something else instead?" The price of the OPA2227 is just the same as the OPA2228. Do you still stand on your opinion that the 2227 is better than the 2228 with regards to bass alone? Thanks.


 

 I personally liked it for my gear and my ears.  Grab both and try them out...you may like a different one.  I can only offer an opinion based on my testing.


----------



## yoyo59

so got my ASUS essence ST, my Senheiser hd595s , and my bx5as...hooked everything up, everything sounds good, but the speakers really nice, just wondering if i could tweat some settings to get more out of it card? just using foobar2000 v1.0.3   and using vista  , heard something about ASIO4ALL driver , settings im using is 2 channel  sample rate 44.1khz  analog out headphones gain set to 64ohm no other thing activiated only hi-fi, also seen somthing about going in control panel >hardware & sound> manage audio devices and setting it to 44k - studio quality, i checked mine and its on 44k - cd quality....ALSO some advice on  opamps would be a niced little upgrade thanks


----------



## gurubhai

Use wasapi output, asio4all is not needed.
   
  With HD595, I preferred the LT1057 opamp.


----------



## cent

what is the sound characteristic of LT1057?


----------



## ManuLM

Hi,
   
  I just broke a cap around the final buffer when removing the adapter.
  What precise cap is that (type, value ...)? (want to order new ones to replace the broken stuff, eventually upgrade if there is anything to do here...)
   
  Thanks


----------



## cent

the white 1?


----------



## ManuLM

yes the white one around the buffer
   
  these ones (on the left).
  I fear the 3 others maybe damaged as well.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Nice picture.  The photographer has an excellent eye!
   
  so you have the four bax caps
   
  1......2
   
  opamp
   
  3.....4
   
   
  Which one?
  I have the card sitting here on my desk.


----------



## leeperry

manulm said:


> yes the white one around the buffer [..]
> I fear the 3 others maybe damaged as well.


 

 Christ, Manu! what did you use to roll the opamp?


----------



## genclaymore

Yea I agree on the OPA2227, Tho I am currenty using 2x OPA228 since I didnt have a OPA2228 dual channel ver and enjoying it so far with my AKG702s. Tho I still looking for other opamps that may work good with the AKG702. I just dont know what esle will work.
  
  Quote: 





joms said:


> I kind of searched around the forums and read about the OPA2227. Not much people really like it. They say the OPA2228 performs better in all aspects even in the bass region. Do you think it would be better to use the OPA2228 or AD8066 or something else instead?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Here are the comments i've read:
> ...


----------



## ManuLM

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Nice picture.  The photographer has an excellent eye!
> 
> so you have the four bax caps
> 
> ...


 

 actually 1 is dead, but I have also doubts on the other caps

  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Christ, Manu! what did you use to roll the opamp?


 
   
  Something bigger, my hands


----------



## dex85

hey guys, John Atkinson did his follow up on Essence ST/STX in September Stereophile issue. it was mostly about supposed beta bit-perfect drivers (88.2 kHz still not bit-perfect) and headphone out listening. it should be on their website in a month or so.


----------



## ManuLM

No one ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





manulm said:


> actually 1 is dead, but I have also doubts on the other caps


----------



## wadec22

if you use the headphone out to an external amplifier, which gain setting do you set the control panel to?


----------



## cent

Quote: 





manulm said:


> No one ?


 

 I'm not sure what is that.
  According to the code on the white thingy, it doesn't look like a capacitor, more likely a diode and the bigger one beside I/V should be signal relay.
   
  Give me the brand of the white thingy that you broke and its code, some what with N in between, ex. 1N1234


----------



## Dalamar

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Fidelity goes down.


 

 Only in an audiophile's misguided opinion.


----------



## csy

Quote:


manulm said:


> actually 1 is dead, but I have also doubts on the other caps
> 
> Something bigger, my hands


 

 On the 'Essence ST' they are 2.7nF 400v capacitors (marked 2n7), MKT film type.  It is a safe bet the STX has the same capacitors.  MKP capacitors would be a good upgrade.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





wadec22 said:


> if you use the headphone out to an external amplifier, which gain setting do you set the control panel to?


 

 You should plug the external amp to the RCA instead of the headphone amp of the STX, All it gonna do is double amping.


----------



## wadec22

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> You should plug the external amp to the RCA instead of the headphone amp of the STX, All it gonna do is double amping.


 
  I would but the STX doesn't do Dolby Headphone via RCA.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wadec22 said:


> I would but the STX doesn't do Dolby Headphone via RCA.


 

 You are going to drive up your distortion levels driving one amp using another.
  If you want DH for foobar, you can use a wrapper which will give you the function while still using the stereo RCA outputs.
  You want DH for everything?
  Some use the STX as a DAC driving an external headphones amplifier using the RCA's.


----------



## wadec22

i want dolby headphone when i game.  i think there is a regular line level out to use.  i was using the headphone out b/c of the xbitlabs review that said it was so much better sounding.  easy fix i guess.


----------



## 0o0o0o

just picked up my stx today. Sounds great but im getting some a slight pop/halfsecond of distortion every so often when i use the asio driver with foobar.
   
  Got my sample rates all lined up with my music, playing flac, tried turning off avast's real time shields, basically anything someone has recommended here or over on the asustek forums.
   
  I searched around and found some users saying it was a beta driver issue, wondering if anyone else has had the same experience? Or has a fix.
   
  I have to assume this isnt a power supply, pcie or any sort of pc hardware issue considering i get no pop on direct sound, or using the onboard (ugh). Bit paranoid that the pop is occuring whenever im using my mouse in any sort of fashion.


----------



## cent

Is your foobar 'playback' > 'output' > 'buffer length' too low? try reset it to default.


----------



## 0o0o0o

hrmm, I tried playing with the buffer a bit during my troubleshooting but it seems like i should have played with it a bit more. The default setting doesnt seem to help much but going higher seems to have solved the problem. Im getting a bit paranoid about this now. Im confusing drum beats with the pop. lol


----------



## daisangen

I had the same problem w/ ASIO as you're experiencing. I eventually gave up and kept using WASAPI. The drivers seem pretty hopeless alright.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wadec22 said:


> i want dolby headphone when i game.  i think there is a regular line level out to use.  i was using the headphone out b/c of the xbitlabs review that said it was so much better sounding.  easy fix i guess.


 
  Yeah, some like it for gaming.  The RCA outputs are line level and meant to drive amps.
  Reviews are opinions and suggesting the head out sounds better goes aginst the measurments also. 
  Can out being 117dB, Line outs being 124dB according to measurments.
  However, it is what YOU think sounds better.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





0o0o0o said:


> hrmm, I tried playing with the buffer a bit during my troubleshooting but it seems like i should have played with it a bit more. The default setting doesnt seem to help much but going higher seems to have solved the problem. Im getting a bit paranoid about this now. Im confusing drum beats with the pop. lol


 


 Buffers can fix these issues sometimes.  The Beta driver is just that..Beta.
  Some have issues and some do not.


----------



## daisangen

By the way, what are the optimal settings for mixer and the main volume knob when using the line-out? Isn't the idea to get 0db out to the amplifier? 76% on mixer and 50% on the knob is quite close to 0db according to the meter in the control panel, but I have to crank the amp up quite a bit more.


----------



## Dalamar

Quote: 





daisangen said:


> By the way, what are the optimal settings for mixer and the main volume knob when using the line-out? Isn't the idea to get 0db out to the amplifier? 76% on mixer and 50% on the knob is quite close to 0db according to the meter in the control panel, but I have to crank the amp up quite a bit more.


 

 76% r/l mixer (default setting) and 100% windows volume = -.1db according to RMAA using the line-out to line-in.
  Measurements taken at that level are perfect.
   
  Feel free to leave it at 100%, I'd even advise it.
   
   
  FYI someone on asus forum modded his STX drivers using some stuff from the up to date Xense drivers. Says it made ASIO stable.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





daisangen said:


> By the way, what are the optimal settings for mixer and the main volume knob when using the line-out? Isn't the idea to get 0db out to the amplifier? 76% on mixer and 50% on the knob is quite close to 0db according to the meter in the control panel, but I have to crank the amp up quite a bit more.


 

 The cards RCA outputs are line level.  Leave the mixer default and max the main volume.
  The will give you full line level output.  Use your external amp to adjust to taste.


----------



## daisangen

Thanks Dalamar and ROBSCIX, I shall do that.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





daisangen said:


> Thanks Dalamar and ROBSCIX, I shall do that.


 


 No problem.  This rule will apply to any soundcard with line level outputs.
  If you keep the master volume low say at 50 as you had it, then your external amplifer has to boost the signal even more and this adds more distortion and lowers your SNR...you have more noise with less signal.  This is why you see CD players and many other devices without master volume settings because they want the signal as high as possible(within spec) for the best signal quality.
   
  Hope that Helps.


----------



## AhhHoNG

I have the Wave(100), Left(76), Right(76) in the Mixer. Keep all these 3 to default then max the main volume knob? Is this what you guys mean?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> I have the Wave(100), Left(76), Right(76) in the Mixer. Keep all these 3 to default then max the main volume knob? Is this what you guys mean?


 

 Yes that sounds about right.  Are you having some trouble?


----------



## AhhHoNG

lol thanks alot but nah no troubles. I dont set my main knob to 100. that would be crazy loud on my speakers as its veryvery sensitive to my speakers volume knob.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> lol thanks alot but nah no troubles. I dont set my main knob to 100. that would be crazy loud on my speakers as its veryvery sensitive to my speakers volume knob.


 

 I thought you were using an external amplifier?
  You use the external amplifier to control the overall system volume.
  So when you do this, it makes your speakers very loud at low settings on your amp?
  You are driving the external amplifiers from the RCA outputs right?
  OK, so just try and keep the volume on the card as high as possible when driving an external amplifier.
  If that is not possible then work with what you have.


----------



## AhhHoNG

I am using a set of alteclansing mx5021 which has a volume control. So if i were to set 100% on my ST volume knob, every 5 degrees rotation on my speaker knob would add crazy volume 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. yeah something like what you said. It makes my speakers very loud even at low settings of my speaker volume control knob
   
  LOL btw i set volume 5 on my ST main volume. tats how sensitive it is. crappy speakers, bookshelves here i come in a month!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> I am using a set of alteclansing mx5021 which has a volume control. So if i were to set 100% on my ST volume knob, every 5 degrees rotation on my speaker knob would add crazy volume
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You do have them connected to the RCA output right?
   
  You have a great source so the speakers are your weak point, as you said a nice set of bookshelf speakers and desktop amplifier will give you much better quality over those altecs.
  What set are you thinking of using with your ST?


----------



## AhhHoNG

Yup the RCA output.
   
  hmmm. i am looking at active bookshelves. Mayb a pair of Mackie MR5? i tried the KRK R5 gen 2 and its good but its ugly to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Any other recommendation? I dont want the audioengine 5 as many other think that these are overated and i can get something better around the similar price range. Btw i am a little confuse on how to connect frm my ST to a subwoofer then to the active bookshelves. What must i look out for in the subwoofer b4 i purchase 1? Thanks!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Yup the RCA output.
> 
> hmmm. i am looking at active bookshelves. Mayb a pair of Mackie MR5? i tried the KRK R5 gen 2 and its good but its ugly to me
> 
> ...


 

 Sure, you can go either active or passive. I like passives as you can use different amps if you want but actives also have their advantages also.  The ADAM A7X and other powered monitors look slick but I have yet to test them.  They have subs also but to note I have not checked their prices but they have been mentioned by a few members here as having excellent sound.
   
  You cannot connect a subwoofer directly to a normal ST without the H6 board.  There are many subwoofer that take stereo inputs and filter out the bass and you connect your speakers to your subwoofer. It really depends on the subwoofer though.  You're right as there are better speakers out there then the A5's for similar price tags.  If you are into getting some speakers you might do better in a different forum where people concentrate on speaker/subwoofer systems.  You might consider the H6 though as it offers more outputs and options for speakers.
  You can PM me also to discuss speakers and subwoofers, so we don't pull the thread too far off topic


----------



## germanium

I currently use a set of M-Audio BX5's with a tannoy subwoofer with my Essense STX. I use the STX to drive a preamp which then drives both the sub & the speakers through a signal plitter one wire to the sub from each channel & one wire to each of  the powered speakers. I don't let the signal go to the subs then the speakers as the lowers the quality of the signal to the speakers. My speakeres already have low frequency cutoff controls built in so no issues there for me. Most active proffessional speakers have active high pass filtering built in already so why double up if the signal comes out worse for the wear.
   
   The same can be done with the ST or STX without a preamp & without the need for the H6 board as my preamp has only 2 channels as well.
   
  If you plan on using the new drivers & ASIO output you will need an external volume control of some type, passive or active preamp as there is no volume control action with this driver in ASIO mode. I use an active one of quite exceptional performance as it is quite neutral & transperant to the signal quality. Most actives are not that good unless you pay big bucks. The best bet for most people is a passive unit for reason of transperancy but care must be taken to get very low capacitance cabling & use the shortest possible runs that still meet your requirements for speaker placement. Cable runs in this case should be kept less than 6 feet at the very outside even with low capcitance cabling.


----------



## AhhHoNG

Oh so if i use it only with ST, the signal passes through the sub to the speaker, the quality  would get lower? oh okay...


----------



## Steve-o27

Hey guys, I've just ordered two OPA2137P for the I/Vs and one LT1364 for the buffer. I'm using some M-Audio AV40s on the RCAs and a pair of HD555 on the headphone out. What do you think? How will it sound compared to the stock setup?


----------



## AhhHoNG

Anybody using 2107 opamp? i am using 1 for the Buffer and 2x 49720HA in the IV. any opinion on the 2107?


----------



## cent

soundstage is narrow, feel sharper in the high.
  good in speaker for movie, not sure about headphone. I dont like headphone, feel like heavy metal hang on head.


----------



## Bojamijams

Has anyone here used WASAPI on the SPDIF and had it output sounds other then just your music?

 for example, if I have a game playing and foobar playing, I can hear both music and the game sounds feeding into my DAC.


----------



## germanium

Looks like the interest in the xonar cards is dying. Broken drivers & lack of newer ones is probably to blame here. Drivers do work for most part, it is only when trying to do special things where problems arise like ASIO not working properly in several recording programs. sound quality though in normal listening though is still superb. That is what most people bought this card for anyways. The bit matched drivers seemed at first to offer better sound quality but on futher listening at matched volumes I couldn't reliably tell the difference. The sound quality was superb either way to me. Yes, I downloaded a program that supported the bit matched ASIO drivers to compare with (J River Media Center 15).


----------



## recorder

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Looks like the interest in the xonar cards is dying. Broken drivers & lack of newer ones is probably to blame here. Drivers do work for most part, it is only when trying to do special things where problems arise like ASIO not working properly in several recording programs. sound quality though in normal listening though is still superb. That is what most people bought this card for anyways. The bit matched drivers seemed at first to offer better sound quality but on futher listening at matched volumes I couldn't reliably tell the difference. The sound quality was superb either way to me. Yes, I downloaded a program that supported the bit matched ASIO drivers to compare with (J River Media Center 15).


 
  So, what are they buying instead? There's a thread >"sound card suggestions" going with a lively debate between me and another member about his opinion of the ST being superior to the STX. I'm trying to enlighten him as to the real differences between the cards, but he's fixed on "More = Better".
  I tried the beta bit-perfect drivers on my XP box w/ JRiver Media Jukebox, and ASIO was a no show, so I switched back to the stock drivers, and haven't looked back.
  As you say, for regular listening, and in my case, recording from vinyl, the stock drivers with ASIO are fine. I use Adobe Audition, and ASIO works.
   
  I quit JRiver, and went to MusicBee. Great ASIO support, and excellent out of the box performance, but strictly audio, only.
  Thanks for all your "tips" germanium (diode?)


----------



## leeperry

recorder said:


> the ST being superior to the STX.


 

 Once you've heard the ST, the STX feels like an unbearable mushy mess. The jitter is horrid on their DSP if you play 44.1kHz as it's using a 22.476Mhz(48kHz*512) PLL masterclock, the ST tries to save the day w/ a 75ps reclocker.


----------



## audiophilic

If I were to connect the RCA outputs on the STX to my Woo audio 6 RCA inputs; Is that going to increase the amount of distortion? I tried this and I noticed that the SQ coming from the WA6 is identical to my STX. Moreover, the bass gets distorted when I increase the volume on the WA to 90-100%. Should I get a dedicated DAC like the Dacmagic?
   
  I'm sure the WA6 is a much better headphone amplifier than the STX. I just don't know whats limiting the WA. The DAC on the STX is pretty good from what I've read online and on head-fi.
   
  Help appreciated


----------



## matthewh133

I know this card sounds brilliant for music and such. People have mentioned it is a bit lackluster for gaming. Any hardcore gamers know from personal experience how this soundcard fairs with a good set of AD900s (or something similar) plugged in? Basically looking for an immersive gaming environment with great audio quality and sound positioning. If it does lack in the gaming sense I will probably have to get myself an Auzentech Forte and have a seperate setup for my speaker music setup.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> I know this card sounds brilliant for music and such. People have mentioned it is a bit lackluster for gaming. Any hardcore gamers know from personal experience how this soundcard fairs with a good set of AD900s (or something similar) plugged in? Basically looking for an immersive gaming environment with great audio quality and sound positioning. If it does lack in the gaming sense I will probably have to get myself an Auzentech Forte and have a seperate setup for my speaker music setup.


 

 Great sounding card bit if you are a hardcore gamer get a gamer card...


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Great sounding card bit if you are a hardcore gamer get a gamer card...


 

 Yeah will probably stick to the Forte for a gaming card and set up a seperate DAC/Amp setup for music listening/mixing purposes. Thanks  Now I have to figure out a way to use the same PC with a seperate DAC/Amp setup for as far as I'm aware, having an external DAC will completely bypass any sound from the PC to the DAC, which would mean the soundcard would be useless (which I don't want as I need it for gaming sound.)
   
  Edit: Apparently you can actually run multiple sources on windows 7 via Foobar/Winamp and ASIO4ALL? That helps a lot, time to finally move away from itunes. Forte > Amp > Headphones for gaming and then PC > DAC > Amp > Speakers/Headphones for music/movies? Sorry, still learning!


----------



## giedrys

I can use some clarification here. How do I correctly use upsampling feature on ST? Let's say i want ST to do upsampling 16/44.1 flac to 24/96? So I set sampling rate on xonar audio center to 96khz and  24bit on Wasapi in Foobar. But what about settings in windows "speakers" properties? Should i leave it at 16/44.1(CD quality) to avoid "double" upsampling ?
   
  It's somewhat confusing how exactly audio travels thru windows, foobar, xonar software till it arrives at ST's analog output. Maybe someone could explain.


----------



## gurubhai

If you use wasapi, then windows speaker property settings don't matter, they will be bypassed.


----------



## beeman458

Less is more.
   
  My opinion, lose the foobar, rip in WAV and keep your sample rate at 16/44.1.  Native is better as upsampling adds it's own brand of distortion.  My understanding, the algorithms guess at the blanks they're filling in; distortion.
   
  And a suggestion, if your desk will handle it, think about getting a separate headphone amp.  Maybe even a DAC/Amp combo like an Audio-gd "Fun."
   
  Hope the above helps.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





beeman458 said:


> Less is more.
> 
> My opinion, lose the foobar, rip in WAV and keep your sample rate at 16/44.1.  Native is better as upsampling adds it's own brand of distortion.  My understanding, the algorithms guess at the blanks they're filling in; distortion.
> 
> ...


 


 Converting to a 24 bit file then resampling to a higher noninteger samplerate can actually be lossless. You need 24 bits to work with though if resampling to a noninteger sample rate so there is more bits to fill in the gaps between the 16 bit samples. This way it can create a true representation of the signal maintaining the slope of the waveform exactly. This is not a guess but a true mathematical calculation that truely represents the signal & can be converted back to the 16 bit 44.1KHz signal without loss & if you invert the one of sigalls (after resampling back to 16 bit 44.1KHz) digitally they will perfectly cancel. I have seen this test done. This was demonstrated at an AES meeting.
   
  By the way even working with a noninteger resample there is a simple integer path that can be taken to get the proper result. This is the path that Sony took with their conversion proccess for converting DSD to PCM at various sample rates. They simply up the sample rate to a rate that can evenly be devided into to get the the desired sample rate. If you multiply 44.1 by a high enough integer you will eventually find a integer number that can be evenly devided into to get 48, 96 &192KHz samplerates again proving that such calculations are not merely guessing.
   
  It is preferable to let the card do the resampling though as there is greater jitter reduction if done in hardware. This is due to the nature of how computers treat thier data busses. All signals are transmitted in bursts on the computer busses then buffered & streamed from the buffer on the sound card. If you resample before the data reaches the soundcard then there really is no reduction of jitter as the bus burst mode transfers the signal to the soundcard. The only thing that counts here is the the data is accurate in level however if you resample the data as it comes out of the buffer on the soundcard there can be substantial reductions in jitter as now the signal is being streamed & not burst transfered & timing becomes critical at this point. Early jitter reduction devices were actually resamplers that some manufacteres mistook that they could reduce jitter with without resampling however the resampler manufacturer came back & informed them that jitter reduction only occured with thier chips if the signal was resampled to a higher samplerate.


----------



## genclaymore

What are you guys using to keep the  pcie bracket in place when the EMI shield is off. Because I wanted to use some cap op-amps I had but I cant because the bracket will be loose and cause problems.


----------



## bearcatsandor

Thank you Germanium for a informative post on that. I understand that.
   
  Would running a sound server that reduces the latency (like Jack) reduce the jitter on the software side?


----------



## dex85

Stereophile's follow-up on Essence STX/ST
   
  http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/asus_xonar_essence_ststx_soundcards/index6.html


----------



## leeperry

dex85 said:


> Stereophile's follow-up on Essence STX/ST
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/asus_xonar_essence_ststx_soundcards/index6.html


 

 690ps jitter on the STX coax output, exactly what it sounds like. The DSP itself is spec'ed at 500ps, so it only increases from there.


----------



## dex85

690ps is TOSLINK output, coax would probably measure a little better


----------



## leeperry

dex85 said:


> 690ps is TOSLINK output, coax would probably measure a little better


 

 Well, his sentence is not clear: "_the Essence STX offered low jitter, even with a TosLink connection, at 690 picoseconds_"
   
  I understand it's 690ps......even w/ a toslink connection, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this very measurement was made over toslink. and why not measuring the ST on coax and clearly state it? as usual, their reviews don't make any sense...talking about low jitter over toslink, huh...especially when the ST has a reclocker that the STX lacks.


----------



## sagatman

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Converting to a 24 bit file then resampling to a higher noninteger samplerate can actually be lossless...


 

 I agree with germanium's post and want to add some personal opinion. An upsampling can push digital noise to higher frequency band thus prevent human perception resulting in audio degradation


----------



## dex85

look at the graph, it says "Xonar STX TOSLINK Eye Pattern", so those figures are most likely for the TOSLINK. i don't why they didn't measure the coax output.
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, his sentence is not clear: "_the Essence STX offered low jitter, even with a TosLink connection, at 690 picoseconds_"
> 
> I understand it's 690ps......even w/ a toslink connection, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this very measurement was made over toslink. and why not measuring the ST on coax and clearly state it? as usual, their reviews don't make any sense...talking about low jitter over toslink, huh...especially when the ST has a reclocker that the STX lacks.


----------



## leeperry

good point! but wow, he measured 15 and 19mV of DC offset on the HP out...ouch.


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





beeman458 said:


> Less is more.
> 
> My opinion, lose the foobar, rip in WAV and keep your sample rate at 16/44.1.  Native is better as upsampling adds it's own brand of distortion.  My understanding, the algorithms guess at the blanks they're filling in; distortion.
> 
> ...


 

  
   
  Thanks, but that's not what i asked.  I'm quite happy with FLAC, Foobar and ST combo. I only wanted to learn more about proper upsampling settings and audio path when using Foobar and ST.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





bearcatsandor said:


> Thank you Germanium for a informative post on that. I understand that.
> 
> Would running a sound server that reduces the latency (like Jack) reduce the jitter on the software side?


 

 Minimally if at all.
   
  Goes back to the problem of how computers transfer sound data internally. Jitter is only a factor when it is being released from the buffer of the soundcard as now the signal release is timed. When data is being transfered on the computer busses the signal has no timing relationship to the final output & therefore cannot truely contribute significantly to the reduction of true jitter. There are other factors that come into play when measuring Jitter that cannot currently really be seperated from the jitter measurement but yet are not really jitter in the true sense of the term. For example, beats of harmonic distortion coming from the test signal interacting with either powersupply or the clock frequency of the DAC. Noise from a poorly filtered swich mode powersupply. These things cannot be seperated from true jitter with current testing. The burst nature of the Data tranfer within the PC also contributes powersupply noise in the audible range near where the test frequency for jitter is taken. 
   
  I only mention these thing as a possible reason why such testing with the likes of CPlayer resulted in lowered measured jitter, Many of the componants of the jitter spectrum tested were just noise & beats related to the powersupply hash & by minimizing the programs running you reduce the hash & this comes accross in the jitter measurement but are not true clock jitter. The burst nature of the buss tranfers & CPU operation can easily be heard if you have a ground loop in your system as I did with mine for a while. I eliminated that issue with mine & can no longer hear it.
   
  Due to the hardware characteristics with computers software cannot reduce the true jitter componant of the soundcard hardware. Running a minmal installation can reduce the hash from other causes but not the true jitter componant. Only the soundcard harware can significantly reduce true jitter & resampling is the way it is likely done


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> good point! but wow, he measured 15 and 19mV of DC offset on the HP out...ouch.


 


 This is about what I measured on my headphone out on the STX. It is not excessive if driving headphones or non-D.C. coupled amps. Direct coupled amps ok. D.C. coupled amps not ok. There is a difference between the 2 amp couplings. Main out buffer amps are much lower in D.C. offset & can safely drive most D.C.coupled amps even with the output coupling caps replaced with wire.


----------



## leeperry

germanium said:


> This is about what I measured on my headphone out on the STX. It is not excessive if driving headphones or non-D.C. coupled amps. Direct coupled amps ok. D.C. coupled amps not ok. There is a difference between the 2 amp couplings. Main out buffer amps are much lower in D.C. offset & can safely drive most D.C.coupled amps even with the output coupling caps replaced with wire.


 

 Well, serious audio gear outputs <5mV, and most Firestone Audio units use a DC coupling opamp to completely suppress DC offset(you'll read 0.1mV if you're lucky). Too much of it will fry the voice coils, but little of it will color the sound...I'd have expected <5mV on the STX tbh. I've now taken the habit to always measure it before plugging my phone since I've seen a soundcard output 100mV! it was a cheap Auzen w/ AD797BR, LT1028 wasn't outputting much but AD797BR went up through the roof for some reason.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> Well, serious audio gear outputs <5mV, and most Firestone Audio units use a DC coupling opamp to completely suppress DC offset(you'll read 0.1mV if you're lucky). Too much of it will fry the voice coils, but little of it will color the sound...I'd have expected <5mV on the STX tbh. I've now taken the habit to always measure it before plugging my phone since I've seen a soundcard output 100mV! it was a cheap Auzen w/ AD797BR, LT1028 wasn't outputting much but AD797BR went up through the roof for some reason.


 

 D.C. coupling will not suppress D.C. offset, It will amplify it. some D.C. coupled amps wil have an adjustment to cancel D.C. offset but many don't. Some such as my preamp have a servo that detects D.C. offset & cancels it. Conecting a D.C. coupled amp to a low D.C. offset preamp or soundcard will cancel much of the D.C. offset present at the input of the following amp compared to whats there with no connection. D.C. offset that is present at the ouput of the Xonars headphone amp is not going to color the sound any more than cocking your head to one side or the other as this will have about the  same effect on physical driver offset as the D.C. offset present at the Xonars ouput. There would also be precious little voice coil heating from that 19 millivolts into 64 Ohms equals 0.00000560625 watts. This is gotten by Voltage squared divided by resistance. Not a whole lot of heating going on here. At 600 ohms the power disipation would be even conciderably lower.


----------



## ManuLM

these DC are high but quite common ...


----------



## leeperry

my bad, I meant "DC Servo"...and the Firestone Spitfire DAC outputs 3mV(I often plug headphones directly on its RCA) and all the headphones specific gear from them has a TL072 DC servo that completely suppresses DC offset IME(I've measured it on their Fubar3, Cute Beyond and Little Country III).
   
  It is my understanding that too high of a DC offset can fry voice coils, and little of it will color the sound? 100mV didn't kill my DT770/600 so I guess we indeed have quite a lot of headroom, but still..I'd expect a HP out to have a properly working DC servo.


----------



## ManuLM

you have indeed a lot of headroom ...
  depends on the headset.
  upto 20-30mV are often measured as DC at the output of portable equipments.
  The new ground referenced amplifiers are by default not exactly ground centered, this explains the DC.
   
  Adding AC coupling will add cost, harm the freq response, and the loudness.
   
  A membrane can be damaged (physical damage) by a too high displacement, by music or by a DC offset that is ... above the music level.


----------



## leeperry

Two things I don't relate to all this:
   
  -The Firestone Spitfire DAC doesn't have any DC servo opamp...I guess some of the big caps are here for DC decoupling: 


   
  I read on google that DC servo opamps are in the audio path up to 1kHz....but most ppl say that they can't hear a difference between opamps used for this purpose.
   
  -the cd3k has a 1.5W max input and the new z1k 4W...what, why, when? I guess it's about max volume? I guess you could drive the z1k to insane volume levels?


----------



## ManuLM

one way of getting rid of the DC offset is to use AC coupling caps, as you mention. This is for unipolar amplification (amplification of the signal in the positive range, then removal of the DC by AC coupling caps). The downside is, you create a high pass filter that cuts off the low frequencies, so you need a fairly big cap to have good bass response. Or use a DC servo (I do not know DC servo usage in details).
  another amplification structure is the bipolar amplification, where your buffer can deliver negative voltage. here no AC coupling caps is needed, and the bass response can be very nice. Many modern amplifiers use this structure now. The downside of bipolar is they generate a DC offset in the range of a few mV.
   
  As for the 1W max inputs, yes SPL levels are insane. I see this as a safety aspect, you really have to mess up to fry it.
  Doing a simple calculation:
  cd3k: = 104dB/mW
  So at max power you deliver 134dB SPL ... Yalla


----------



## leeperry

I know germanium said that removing the DC filtering caps off his STX improved the SQ, and I also read that they would bloat the bass....but tbh the bass is very tight and percussive on my Firestone Spitfire DAC. Also its RMAA measurements don't exhibit any lack of bass as far as I can tell: http://www.firestone-audio.com/rmaa/SPITFIRE.htm
   
  yeah OK, the max input is really for safety reasons in case something would go terribly wrong..studio headphones always carry high specs like 2/3/4W, maybe in case someone would plug them into a loudspeaker amplifier somehow ^^


----------



## germanium

Bass on the D.C.coupled STX is indeed very tight & has superb resolution especially in the bass. That is where the biggest improvement is & next to that is the treble response improvement which is smoother yet more detailed. This improved treble really helps with instruments like piano which have lots of harmonics. Piano is lively yet smoother sounding like the cymbles.
   
  Note in my system there does not appear to be more deep bass even though it is in fact there, what really comes across in my system is the articulate nature of the instrument & the power of bass drum attacks. In fact all instruments that have an attack componant have a more starting attack than stock.
   
  I would rather have this sound that is lively than the canned sound that comes from many A.C. coupled amps. A Carver preamp that I Had was really bad that way. I went in & repaced all the coupling caps which were many with wire & the sound was no longer canned. The only way to get something resonable sounding stock was to turn on sonic holography. After modding I prefered the non proccessed sound campared to the sound with sonic holography turned on. This amp used several opamps between the input & output & between each stage there was 2 low grade electrolytics per channel. There must have been like 20 of the couping caps thoughout. There was no need of them as this amp was exemplary in its D.C. offset measurements without the coupling caps.


----------



## ManuLM

where are these DC caps located ?
   
  Consider removing them
   
  BTW, has someone done/seen a general floorplan analysis of the STX ? I been looking for this, so far we always have to rely on some posts here and there on this topic (& others)


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





manulm said:


> where are these DC caps located ?
> 
> Consider removing them
> 
> BTW, has someone done/seen a general floorplan analysis of the STX ? I been looking for this, so far we always have to rely on some posts here and there on this topic (& others)


 

 The capacitors in question are CE8 & CE14. They are the closest metal can capacitors to the RCA output connectors.


----------



## avo7007

I am trying to record some SACDs using my ST card. Is there any simple improvement I can make to the phono inputs?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





avo7007 said:


> I am trying to record some SACDs using my ST card. Is there any simple improvement I can make to the phono inputs?


 

 Input circuit is already pretty trnsperant in spite of the low grade coupling caps used. It is very very hard to pick up any difference in sound here compared to the original source. There are four electrolytic coupling caps in the line in circuit that feed the ADC. These cannot be bypassed or removed as there is a fair amount of D.C. on them. One could potentially put mettalyzed film caps in thier place except these would be huge & possibly subject to picking up interferance from inside the computer, hence I decided to leave mine alone.


----------



## avo7007

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Input circuit is already pretty trnsperant in spite of the low grade coupling caps used. It is very very hard to pick up any difference in sound here compared to the original source.


 


 Glad to hear that. Thanks.


----------



## ManuLM

Thanks.
  1 question though: are you using the lien out or the headset amp output ?
  
  Quote: 





germanium said:


> The capacitors in question are CE8 & CE14. They are the closest metal can capacitors to the RCA output connectors.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





manulm said:


> Thanks.
> 1 question though: are you using the lien out or the headset amp output ?


 

 I use both but mostly the line out. This mod only effect the line out.


----------



## PointyFox

I'd like to point out that the stock buffer (LM4562) is the same component as the LME49720.


----------



## Steve-o27

Looking at the specs the LM4562 is the same with the LME49720NA tho the two sound different, the 4562 has a more fragile, more like brittle sound where as the 49720NA is more refined and sounds fuller than it's little brother. I didn't believe this myself until I tested it and it's true, just like the 49720NA vs. 49720HA.
  
  LE: Just got the HAs and installed one in the buffer replacing the NA. Despite having identical specs they sound very different, the NA is harsh and quite fatiguing after a longer period of time while the HAs are more mellow and the bass is pronounced, well defined and it really is just better than it's little brother. Loving my current setup...
   




   
   
  PS: Bit of a getto mod until I get my TO-99 to DIP8 adapters.


----------



## xbiker321

Alright guys, newbie here in need of an opinion.
   
  I have the STX and Denon D2000's and the bass with this setup isn't where I want it. If I replace the OPAmps (A + B) I should notice a difference? I just want to alter the sound of the headphones, my desktop speakers are fine.
   
  What OPAmps are known to give more bass, punch?
   
   
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## beeman458

How many hours have you put on the STX as you need to put a couple hundred hours on it to get it to come up to it's potential.  Also, same thing with your headphones, they too need a couple hundred hours on them so they'll loosen up.
   
  If you haven't done already, any evaluations you do with both the sound card and the headphones, should come after a couple hundred hours of use.


----------



## xShinBoi

Quote: 





xbiker321 said:


> Alright guys, newbie here in need of an opinion.
> 
> I have the STX and Denon D2000's and the bass with this setup isn't where I want it. If I replace the OPAmps (A + B) I should notice a difference? I just want to alter the sound of the headphones, my desktop speakers are fine.
> 
> ...


 

 i'm about asking the same question...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  yes, it kinda weird when i plug my Sennheiser HD555 into headpone out...it's like no bass at all, normally i plug my HD555 on Audio Pro Stereo One (direct setting)...i know it bad comparison, but i think JRC2114D really lack of bass ???


----------



## PointyFox

Quote: 





xbiker321 said:


> Alright guys, newbie here in need of an opinion.
> 
> I have the STX and Denon D2000's and the bass with this setup isn't where I want it. If I replace the OPAmps (A + B) I should notice a difference? I just want to alter the sound of the headphones, my desktop speakers are fine.
> 
> ...


 


 I've heard that the stock op amps have good bass impact and volume compared with various others.  I personally have heard good bass with the stock amps + D2000.  If you want more bass impact, don't use headphones.  They can't generate very much without having a very loud volume.


----------



## daisangen

I've done some opamp swapping and the JRC2114D were the bassiest ones. However, they fall short on rest of the spectrum so you can't really win in the end.


----------



## beeman458

And FWIW, as much as I love the Xonar STX, for the price, convenience and killer sound it gives the user, yes, it's a great unit.  "BUT," it's not a stand alone DAC or Amp and one *will* eventually fall victim to it's limitations.  When this is the case, it's time to start going up the upgrade curve, looking into the likes of something with a bit more umph to it such as an Audio-gd "Sparrow", an Andio-gd "Fun" or stand alone DAC's and Amps as opposed to OpAmp rolling.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Yeah will probably stick to the Forte for a gaming card and set up a seperate DAC/Amp setup for music listening/mixing purposes. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think you are a bit mis-informed or I am misunderstanding you.  You can use a DAC/amp in a gaming setup and have all the audio effects from EAX 1,2,3,4,5 and OpenAL.  Use a Forte as a source for your external DAC as this way you have all the processing power of the Forte but the D to A tasks are handled by the external DAC.  Windows has been able to run multiple soudncards for a long time now.  I usually have multiple cards installed and have freinds who use 3-4 soudncards in their systems.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





daisangen said:


> I've done some opamp swapping and the JRC2114D were the bassiest ones. However, they fall short on rest of the spectrum so you can't really win in the end.


 


 Which opamps did you try? 
  If you are using the line outs you have 3 opamps to work with.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





steve-o27 said:


> Looking at the specs the LM4562 is the same with the LME49720NA tho the two sound different, the 4562 has a more fragile, more like brittle sound where as the 49720NA is more refined and sounds fuller than it's little brother. I didn't believe this myself until I tested it and it's true, just like the 49720NA vs. 49720HA.
> 
> LE: Just got the HAs and installed one in the buffer replacing the NA. Despite having identical specs they sound very different, the NA is harsh and quite fatiguing after a longer period of time while the HAs are more mellow and the bass is pronounced, well defined and it really is just better than it's little brother. Loving my current setup...
> 
> ...


 

 According to National Semi conductor the only difference between the LM4562 and the LME49720 in the same package type is the paint.  They were going to dis-continue the LM4562 numbering but it is too mell known know, Either way they are the same chip.


----------



## kwang411

Hey guys, I'm want to get a warmer sound out of the STX and I'm planning on getting 2 OPA2107 as I/V.


 I'm supposed to get the opa2107ap and not the opa2107au right? (i'm not quite sure what the differences are between the two =S)

  Also, if I swap the buffer opamp to something like opa2228p in addition to the 2x OPA2107 in the I/V, I'd get an even warmer sound?

 Thanks!


----------



## Steve-o27

AP is DIP8 (what you need)
  AU is SOIC (for soldering)


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

so listening to mostly 320 and v0 mp3's i should keep the sample rate at 44khz in the drivers and turn off 24 bit support in winamp? from what i've read, if i set it to a non-native 24 bit/192 khz there can be some distortion, is this right?


----------



## JaylumX

[size=x-small]Got a choice between two opamps and i am not sure which to get. It is either an OPA2107AP or LME49720NA as people have said good things about both but i am sure one of them is better and only if it is a little amount. it is for my HDAV 1.3

 So my question is which of the opamps do your recommend or better still has the superior measured specs? [/size]


----------



## beeman458

*[size=small]So my question is which of the opamps do your recommend or better still has the superior measured specs? [/size]*
   
  [size=small]Just a question, have you allowed time for all you're gear to "burn-in?"  If it's not burned in, you won't have a true feel for your sound cards characteristics in regard to your gear and your soundcard.[/size]
   
  The point, please be sure to get a couple hundred hours on your gear before you start "Amp Rolling."


----------



## Steve-o27

Quote: 





jaylumx said:


> [size=x-small]Got a choice between two opamps and i am not sure which to get. It is either an OPA2107AP or LME49720NA as people have said good things about both but i am sure one of them is better and only if it is a little amount. it is for my HDAV 1.3
> 
> So my question is which of the opamps do your recommend or better still has the superior measured specs? [/size]


 

 In my opinion specs don't really matter that much when it comes to opamps as I learned upon testing several types from different manufacturers. For example, the OPA2107AP is a tad better on paper than the OPA2137P but for me the 2137s sound much better in the I/V than the 2107 or the [size=small]LME49720NA. It's a matter of taste rather than comparing some numbers and deciding upon those. The [/size][size=small]LME49720NA and [/size][size=small]LME49720[/size][size=small]HA have the exact same specs on paper yet the HA is much better in my opinion when used in the buffer with the OPA2137P in the I/Vs. The HA has soft and strong bass, the mids are moist and warm and the highs are clear and fast yet not fatiguing compared to the NA when used in the same setup has a more brittle fell and a washed out bass, the highs being pretty much the same.[/size]
  [size=small]Just get your hands on a few samples and try them out yourself, you'll quickly realize that better specs vs. better sounding are two very different things.[/size]


----------



## zibra

Can you tell me if that final buffer stage has any effect for headphone sund or not? I changed standard JRC for OPA 2604 and its much better, but should I bother with that LM4562 if I listen only on headphones?If yes, I was thinking about
  AD8066 maybe?


----------



## daisangen

The LM4562NA buffer is not used when using the amplified headphone output.
  
  Quote: 





zibra said:


> Can you tell me if that final buffer stage has any effect for headphone sund or not? I changed standard JRC for OPA 2604 and its much better, but should I bother with that LM4562 if I listen only on headphones?If yes, I was thinking about
> AD8066 maybe?


----------



## AhhHoNG

Hi guys, isit normal for my desktop to hang when i plug in or out of my RCA out? this happens recently. although its not much of a problem but i am curious.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Hi guys, isit normal for my desktop to hang when i plug in or out of my RCA out? this happens recently. although its not much of a problem but i am curious.


 
  You should probably have your power off on all devices when you are plugging in RCAs - I once blew my amp doing that.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Hi guys, isit normal for my desktop to hang when i plug in or out of my RCA out? this happens recently. although its not much of a problem but i am curious.


 

 It may be because the card is moving around in the PCI express slot when plugging in RCA plugs causing missaligne contacts. It could also be brcause of a poor ground at the PC or a ground loop between it & the other componants. Usually this just generates noise but on occasion can cause malfunctions.
   
  The question is is this happening only when the RCA plug is plugged in at the sound card or does it happen if the sound card end is already plugged in & you then plug in the other end. If it only happens when you plug in the end where the sound card is then the card is moving around in the PCI express slot. This is likely due to a weak back panel on the computer case combined with a loose fitting PCI express card slot. If it does it when either end is plugged in check your ground at all componants. This last I'm going to mention is unlikely but never hurts to check but also check the D.C. offset coming from the input of the following componant. As I mentioned however this is unlikely the issue. One issue I have seen is that some equipment is also sensitive to the polarity of the A.C. line coming in. Early Magnovox CD players were notorious for this. They would only function corectly if the neutral AC line was connected with the neutral house wiring (this is different than grounding, almost all 120V AC wiring have a hot & a neutral. With 240 volt lines both wires are hot. 120 volt lines only use half of the transformer with very rare occasions such as a friend of mines studio uses transformers that put out  60-0-60 volt lines so he could have balanced power wiring to all 120 volt equipmen in order to better utilize noise filtering & noise cancelation in the power wiring. My understaning is that the university of washington auditorium wiring is done this way also as that is what my friend based his wiring design on.)


----------



## AhhHoNG

Ok this is my problem and situation. My card is place at the last pci slot, furthest away from my graphic card. my desktop is on a short wooden table. i am using a coolermaster 460watt. It freeze and hang when i am pulling out or pluggin in the RCA slot with my computer on. The card is secured tightly with screws at the back panel. I tried swtiching my PCI slot but it still freeze. Not really a huge problem as how often do 1 have to unplug or plug in rca connectors. Thanks


----------



## makasin

Do you guys know if the analog outputs can be used as a preamp to a speaker power amp? I have a Yamaha M60 power amp and also the C85 preamp for it but I was wondering if I could bypass it and go directly to the power amp? WOuld this be a good idea? Also, is there any popping sounds associated with turning the computer on/off or switching outputs? My power amp is pretty powerful so I dont want to blow my speakers. Thanks! I am about to receive my ST in the mail today. Im excited to use it. Ive been using the onboard Realtek HD and M-Audio 1010LT and both of them are disappointing. The 1010LT is disappointing mostly because of its terrible drivers.


----------



## beeman458

The STX is a headphone amp.  I can take the analogue out and port it directly to a headphone amp with no troubles.  Can't say about porting the signal over to a speaker amp.  Best I can see, from looking at the manual, you can RCA over to powered speakers so you may have some play here.


----------



## makasin

Yeah, well that would mean that the amp+speakers is basically a set of powered speakers, which makes sense. Im just trying to see if the volume control on the board is good quality and whether or not there are any popping or clicking sounds associated with turning the computer on/off or switching between headphone and analog output


----------



## beeman458

Can't help you there as I don't do any switching.  I have the card outputted to a DAC via the CoAx cable and use a headphone amplifier at this time and point.


----------



## fufula

Quote: 





ahhhong said:


> Ok this is my problem and situation. My card is place at the last pci slot, furthest away from my graphic card. my desktop is on a short wooden table. i am using a coolermaster 460watt. It freeze and hang when i am pulling out or pluggin in the RCA slot with my computer on. The card is secured tightly with screws at the back panel. I tried swtiching my PCI slot but it still freeze. Not really a huge problem as how often do 1 have to unplug or plug in rca connectors. Thanks


 


 I have a similar setup (ASUS P5B mobo, ST, Thermaltake Matrix case) and it happened twice. Once when I replugged the RCA connectors and pushed the card in a little bit, the PC froze. I disconnected everything, resettled the card in the slot, and it's working fine. Still, I don't think disconnecting live PCI cards is a very bright idea, so I just try not to touch the back of the card while the PC is on. Just the other day I was doing some cleaning inside the case, and even though I made sure that all components are settled firmly in their slots, the sound card must've somehow slipped out, and I couldn't get any sound in Windows. Turned the PC off, resettled the card. All's back to normal.
   
  I haven't had anything like this happen with any other PCI, AGP, ISA, whatever card in over 20 years.


----------



## AhhHoNG

yeah i try not to unplug or plug in the RCA when my computer is on. I jus hope that this is not a hardware problem.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





fufula said:


> I have a similar setup (ASUS P5B mobo, ST, Thermaltake Matrix case) and it happened twice. Once when I replugged the RCA connectors and pushed the card in a little bit, the PC froze. I disconnected everything, resettled the card in the slot, and it's working fine. Still, I don't think disconnecting live PCI cards is a very bright idea, so I just try not to touch the back of the card while the PC is on. Just the other day I was doing some cleaning inside the case, and even though I made sure that all components are settled firmly in their slots, the sound card must've somehow slipped out, and I couldn't get any sound in Windows. Turned the PC off, resettled the card. All's back to normal.
> 
> I haven't had anything like this happen with any other PCI, AGP, ISA, whatever card in over 20 years.


 

 This confirms my first thoughts on this matter that the card is moving around in the PCI Express slot when pluging in the RCA plugs to its jacks. Some RCA plugs fit very very tightly & the force required to insert or remove can be tremendous. Monster turbine plugs are amongst the worst offenders here. It doesn't matter how secure you tighten the screw that holds the card in the PCI express slot as there is enough flex in most computer cases to allow some movement of the card in its slot. A stiffer case will probably still flex some but recover better. Most aluminum cases will not recover as well as a steel case will. The weaker the case the more likely you will have to manualy reset the card in order for the computer to function correctly apon restart whereas a stiffer case you may be able to restart successfully without manually reseting the card it its slot as the stiffer case will pull the card back into it's proper position without having to manually reset it.


----------



## makasin

Ok so I plugged the analog output directly into my power amp and its singing beautifully. No pops or click at any point in the switching or when the computer is powering on. This was happening to my M-audio 1010LT so I was concerned about blowing my speakers since the amp is very powerful(250 real watts RMS) and my speakers are very efficient (93db/1Watt). Now I can switch between my HD650s and that flawlessly and both sound amazing. I didnt realize how much of a difference a sound card can make. This is almost as big a step as going from ye olde PC speaker to Sound Blaster 16 haha. Simply amazing. I ordered the card from Newegg and they included a free opamp upgrade kit which includes 2 LME49720NA. Offer ends 10/31 so if you havent bought this card and are considering, I urge you to get one.


----------



## Shark50521

Quote: 





makasin said:


> Ok so I plugged the analog output directly into my power amp and its singing beautifully. No pops or click at any point in the switching or when the computer is powering on. This was happening to my M-audio 1010LT so I was concerned about blowing my speakers since the amp is very powerful(250 real watts RMS) and my speakers are very efficient (93db/1Watt). Now I can switch between my HD650s and that flawlessly and both sound amazing. I didnt realize how much of a difference a sound card can make. This is almost as big a step as going from ye olde PC speaker to Sound Blaster 16 haha. Simply amazing. I ordered the card from Newegg and they included a free opamp upgrade kit which includes 2 LME49720NA. Offer ends 10/31 so if you havent bought this card and are considering, I urge you to get one.


 
  You are also paying a premium price for newegg, I can buy the opamp upgrade from newegg and the card at a different place and have it come out cheaper. Nothing against newegg, I love the egg, but it is not competitively priced there right now.


----------



## zhi5681

Thanks for all the work you put into this!


----------



## drez

Not sure if this has already been posted, but Auzentech are selling a range of opamps on adapters, which may be useful to those of us without skill or courage with a soldering iron.
   
  Currently I'm using 2x AD8620BR in the I/V and LME4910MA on the buffer - but the latter is a poor choice - it rolls off the treble far too much, and soundstage is gone, so I will be hunting for another buffer solution.  Maybe a discrete from Burson...
   
  To me the AD8620BR's sound less rolled off in the treble (can be a bit incisive with my RS1's), with far better soundstage, but a relatively recessed midrange.  Bass is also extends deeper, but still isn't very prominent, nor any tighter/less so than stock.
   
  I have still to try the LME49720 and LM6172 in the I/V, which if better would make me feel stupid for buying the AD8620BR's, but others have found the latter a better opamp.  Good fun anyway eh.


----------



## mattering

Would playing around with the equalizer on iTunes be recommended?


----------



## Ra97oR

No, if you wanted a equalizer, use the one on board. The iTunes one sounds rather bad to me, foobar is another option.


----------



## mattering

Alright! Thanks!


----------



## makasin

Quote: 





shark50521 said:


> You are also paying a premium price for newegg, I can buy the opamp upgrade from newegg and the card at a different place and have it come out cheaper. Nothing against newegg, I love the egg, but it is not competitively priced there right now.


 

  
  yeah.... I realized that AFTER I made the purchase. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Oh well, still worth it for me. This card is amazing! Im using 2xLME's for the I/V section and the sound is great coming out of my HD650s, best Ive ever heard it sound in fact. THis is mostly due to the DAC section as Ive never had as good of a source as this but ive used some great amps. Through the line-out into my power amp+speakers it sounds incredible. The bass is full and deep, I dont need a subwoofer at all. The whole spectrum is more detailed and lively than ever. Detail is almost as good as the cans. BTW, The speakers I'm using are the Energy Conniseur (sp?) C7's powered by my trusty Yamaha M-60. It drives the amp like a proper pre-amp. crap, even better than my Yamaha C85 pre, but thats probably again due to the quality DAC.
  What would you guys recommend as a good buffer replacement? Im looking for even more bass if possible and perhaps a "grado-like" liveliness?
   
  UPDATE: Ok so I just looked around my room and have found a few opamps. I have 2xOPA2134PA, 6xLM301AN, and 8xLM741CN. From what I understand, the 741 opamp is one of the oldest ones out there and when I think back when we were using them in my labs in school and measuring characteristics, they performed like crap (slew rate was 0.5V/usec). However, what about the lm301 or the 2134? Is there any sense in using the 2134 as either the buffer or the I/V?


----------



## Eric M

How would this card compare to a external Audio-gd Compass DAC/AMP? I have the Compass but deskspace is tight and am looking for something internal. I have AKG K702s.


----------



## vreid

Hi, been lurking here for a few weeks, what a great site!
   
  To my question:
   
  Has Asus uploaded new drivers to their ftp site: ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/PUB/ASUS/Audio_Card/Xonar_Essence_STX/PCI_STX_7_12_8_1792_Win7.zip ( there are zip's for xp and vista too )
   
  Downloaded them but havent installed them yet.. They seem legit though, anyone tried them yet?


----------



## steven_1026

I just went ahead and installed it. Everything seems to be in working order and they got rid of the loud pop in the speakers/headphones when you switch between them!
  Good find vreid!

  
  Quote: 





vreid said:


> Hi, been lurking here for a few weeks, what a great site!
> 
> To my question:
> 
> ...


----------



## NewOne

Hey everyone!

 This question has perhaps been asked, but the topic is quite lenghty and I, unfortunately, don't have enough time to go through it all now.

 I'm purchasing these days Senns HD800, an AMP and perhaps a DAC (most likely Lehmanns Black Cube and M1DAC). If I get DAC and connect optically, does it make sense to get STX or should any card with optical out do? If former, please give (brief, if you don't have time) explanation why. I have been told that by going with optical out, I'm completely bypassing the sound card and it's capabilities.
   
  EDIT: The Black Cube I'm getting is the USB one, so, I guess that sound card doesn't matter...


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





vreid said:


> Hi, been lurking here for a few weeks, what a great site!
> 
> To my question:
> 
> ...


 

 Fantastic, can't wait to try this! Can anyone who has tried these say if they offer the same huge improvement in sound that the last update in July did?


----------



## germanium

Here is the link to the actual FTP site with all the files related to Asus STX sound card. ftp://dlsvr02.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Audio_Card/Xonar_Essence_STX/
   
  This link works properly. If you want a different Asus soundcard go up one directory Glad to see they are using zip files now.


----------



## germanium

Trying new drivers Yes indeed it does get rid of the popping sound when changing from headphones to speakers & back. This is true only of the speaker output, the headphone output still has a slight pop but not nearly as loud. This is likely due to the headphone amps higher D.C. offset. It is much softer than before though. Note that you hear 2 clicks of the solinoid relays instead of one when making these changes, before you only heard one.


----------



## vreid

Now the new drivers have appeared at the asus support site (with a changelog), only 4 fixes listed. I personally can't hear any improvements in sound quality over the older drivers but bug fixes are always welcome!


----------



## [OverDrive]

http://brainbit.wordpress.com/category/uni-xonar/


----------



## chinesekiwi

Hello guys, I'm thinking of re-buying the STX so really, for a deliberately neutral sound (from a scientifically electrical engineering perspective), what opamps do you recommend?
   
  I'm thinking of buying the OPA627/637's and maybe the AD8065's as well.
  Anyway recommendations for I/V and buffer combos? (that suits the circuit). 
   
  I want the source to colour the sound as less as possible. I should be OK if they are in DIP8 I assume? 
  I have 'opamp rolled' (gees that term is annoying) before but this time it's with a 'different mentality'.
   
  EDIT: having read up that the STX actually measures better from the headphone out + the buffer isn't used in that circuitry, 2 x OPA627 / OPA637 = all go? Any other suggestions? Maybe AD8610?
   
  OPA 637 = no go as I read that the gain must be higher than 5, which I don't think the STX's circuitry is AFAIK. Correct me if I'm wrong as I do intend to use the medium gain setting on the TI amp, which measures the best.


----------



## [OverDrive]

Audio Gd Earth x2 (I/V) + LM4562NA (Buffer).


----------



## drez

LME49720's are favourites in the I/V, as are AD8620BR's on adapters, which you can buy from Auzentech.  Im not sure what suits the buffer slot.  
   
  Discrete might be worth a try if you have enough time or knowledge to weld them onto adapters.  Burson also sells discrete opamps but they are PRICY.
   
  LME 49720 are cheap as anything, and the AD8620BR cost about $25 from auzentech, but sound very good to my ears.


----------



## Steve-o27

Quote: 





[overdrive] said:


> Audio Gd Earth x2 (I/V) + LM4562NA (Buffer).


 


  How are those? I always wanted to try those Audio GD opamps but never had the time nor the money to order them. Do the single channel versions work in the I/Vs for the Xonar? I think you only need single channel opamps in the I/Vs and dual ones in the buffer.
  I read somewhere that 2 X GD Earth + 1 X Sun is the combination to go when it comes to the Xonar STX/ST...
   
  PS: You should try out the LME49720HA on an adapter, they are really one step up the ladder from the LM4562NA/LME49720NA, I think you will find them very pleasing.


----------



## [OverDrive]

Quote: 





steve-o27 said:


> How are those? I always wanted to try those Audio GD opamps but never had the time nor the money to order them. Do the single channel versions work in the I/Vs for the Xonar?


 
   
  I have obtained a sound not contaminated and natural, obviously this in my audio chain that you read nelal company.
   
  Of sure I cannot make other that to advise discreet the audio gd.


----------



## drez

audiogd opamps seem quite reasonably priced, but they look like monsters to install!  and there I was thinking Burson opamps were big!  
   
  It would be one hell of a job to install from what I can see.  I might try this one day, but in the meantime I might learn to solder on some old amps I have lying around.  
   
  Even then I think the Burson's would be much less headache and much neater install, albeit at 3 times the cost, but how much is your time worth?
   
  then again by the time I install the audiogd may have already built a gamma2 or something, but I guess If I cant solder the opamps, I cant handle the gamma2 anyway...


----------



## ROBSCIX

AudioGD opamps have been used by many ST/STX owners around here from the start.  Users seem to agree the Earths make the best I/V but you can also use the Sun V2 for that task.  The Moon opamps are NOT compatible for I/V stock...they are not stable.  Sun, Earth or Moon can be used for buffers but many seem to like the Sun V2.  Based on the testing done by a few owners around here...


----------



## recorder

Quote: 





			
				walsh said:
			
		

> Fantastic, can't wait to try this! Can anyone who has tried these say if they offer the same huge improvement in sound that the last update in July did?


 


  For me, NO!
  To elaborate/clarify:
  I run XP SP3  w/ musicbee.
  The Uni-xonar worked great using ASIO.
  The ASIO is broken w/the new ASUS driver in musicbee. Static/distortion beyond belief.
  It does work w/Foobar2k. Maybe a musicbee issue, but not worth the bother of having to troubleshoot something that should work out of the box.
   
  I uninstalled, and downloaded the latest uni-xonar, and musicbee is happy, again.


----------



## genclaymore

You gotta us UNI Asio patch for the drivers because they uses 2.0 ASio which why Asio dont work right. that ASio patch uni have installs ASIO 1.0.


----------



## Griffinhart

Holy gods.
   
  So, when I first got my Xonar Essence ST, I was still using a pair of ATH-AD700 headphones. I turned on the Dolby Headphone DSP. (Was this dumb of me then? I dunno, but I liked the sound.)
   
  Today, I looked at this thread's first post and decided "hey, let's try out their settings!"
   
  So the first thing I did was click the little "HF" button in the bottom-right corner, while I'm listening to music. (I'm always listening to music when I'm at my computer. Heck, even when I'm not at my computer - I believe in burn-in, so I always have music playing through my headphones.)
   
  At first I was "man, this sounds weird..."
   
  After about thirty seconds of listening though, I noticed - I wasn't in a cavern anymore. The vocalist sounded like he was singing _right there before me_.
   
  I clicked the HF button again. Now I was in a big ol' room and there was this echo every time he made a noise.
   
  Clicked HF again. Cocked my eyebrow. Sat through the song. Next song had a noticeable bassline and really good treb-
   
  Wait, that bass. I can hear the- no, I can _feel_ the bass. Toggled HF off. Nope, no bass, just treble and an echo-y vocal. Toggled on. BASS. CLEAR TREBLE. CLEAN VOCALS.
   
  My mind was blown. _Is_ blown. It's like I bought a new pair of headphones. It's like I bought a new pair of _closed_ headphones. I didn't even know open cans were _capable_ of bass! Like, actual thump! I am listening to "Higan Retour ~ Riverside View" right now (from Touhou 09 - Phantasmagoria of Flower View) and I have to stop every so often just so I can _pay attention_ to the sounds that I _didn't know existed_. Not just the bass, but the grainy aftertaste that one of the horns in the track leaves, a sound that I couldn't hear - wasn't even aware of - before. Not only can I hear hear it, I can also tell that I can only hear it from the right, that the position of the specific horn with that specific effect is on the right, opposed by the bullet graze sound effect on the left side of the stage (my left, that is).
   
  I don't... I don't think I'm going to sell my Essence ST like I was planning to. >_>
   
  I need to go back to some of my favorite songs and see what I've missed out on.
   
  -- Griffinhart


----------



## [OverDrive]

* UNi Xonar 1792 1.25 drivers released.*
   
   
- Updated ASIO Bit-perfect from 2.0.0.1 to 2.0.0.2 (_special thanks to *bullseye*_)

-  Fixed C-Media Audio Panel not auto-starting on Windows 7 x86.

   

http://brainbit.wordpress.com/category/uni-xonar/


----------



## recorder

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> You gotta us UNI Asio patch for the drivers because they uses 2.0 ASio which why Asio dont work right. that ASio patch uni have installs ASIO 1.0.


 
  r u saying to apply the UNI ASIO patch to the *official* *Asus* drivers? I didn't even try.
  I uninstalled the ASUS drivers, and reinstalled the latest UNI drivers, and life is good, again!!


----------



## yoyo59

in the new asus st driver update is there a change in the SQ?
  also should i uninstall the current drivers then install this one?


----------



## walsh

Well the new driver is about 1mb bigger than the last one so there must have been some significant changes.


----------



## yoyo59

is there any way to increase  the soundcard to its full ability?
  like better power supply & move it to a better pci slot etc?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





yoyo59 said:


> is there any way to increase  the soundcard to its full ability?
> like better power supply & move it to a better pci slot etc?


 

 There are always modification that can be made to almost any source that will increase the quality.  However, you also need the gear to hear the differences.
  Many around here have been doing various mods on these cards, such as removing the coupling caps, changing the opamps and other more difficult mods.


----------



## yoyo59

is there any easy mods i can do to significantly improve my overall SQ?


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





recorder said:


> r u saying to apply the UNI ASIO patch to the *official* *Asus* drivers? I didn't even try.
> I uninstalled the ASUS drivers, and reinstalled the latest UNI drivers, and life is good, again!!


 


  Yea I was, But now its not needed any more since uni released drivers based on the new 1792s.
   
  @yoyo go op-amp rolling, Dip-8 op-amps you just gotta make there pins straight so they go into the socket.


----------



## drez

back to discrete opamps, page 39 posts an article (albeit one sourced from burson's website) which places Burson discrete opamps ahead of audiogd.  

 This and the more straightforward installation due to smaller footprint might offset the price difference, if we can trust the above comparison.
   
  Has anyone reliable directly compared Burson to audiogd, seeing as we probably cant trust the above article?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





yoyo59 said:


> is there any easy mods i can do to significantly improve my overall SQ?


 


   hmm none of my typing took on the original post & I have to go to work now, will repost when I get home.
   
  Heres my second attempt at making this post. The simplest is opamp swapping. There are many good opamps that have a slightly different charachter than the stock ones. I myself have found the stock ones quite good enough for me. however you may find differently for your situation. My system is quite nuetral & transparent as is. The second & only slightly more dificult is removing & replacing the coupling caps labeled CE8 & CE14 with plain old wire, one could also just bypass them on the bottom side of the board with wire as this makes it easier to return to stock in case you decide you don't like the sound though everyone here who has actually done this has liked the result. This second mod does require a small amount of soldering & to be somewhat handy with a multimeter (at least understanding what the readings mean). Also care must be taken in soldering on these boards as the traces are extremely delicate. If you have no experience with soldering try practicing on something else first that is no longer in use till you perfect it then move to this card.


----------



## Demi9OD

I've just recently purchased a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990s, in the 32ohm flavor.  I went with the easier to drive 32ohm so I'd have no trouble with volume from my Creative X-Fi or portable device.  I've now decided these cans are home bound permanently, they are just too bulky for the iPod, I'll stick with my IEMs for that.  I also decided I was unsatisfied with the output from my X-Fi, and have an Essence STX on order as a replacement, along with two LME49720's.  The question at hand; my Beyer's are still within 30 days of the original purchase, and I will no longer have the original power restrictions imposed by my weak sources.  Should I attempt a trade up to the 250 or 600ohm version of these cans for use with the Essence STX?  I am very pleased with their sonic signature, but fear I may be losing some transparency with the 32ohm version now that I will be capable of driving the more power hungry versions.


----------



## genclaymore

I would say yea, as the 250ohm and 600 ver has different sound signatures then the 32ohm ver.


----------



## s0kkiplast

I bought this card today, and I must say I´m amazed! But:
  How high risk would you say there is to damage your headphones with the high gain alternative? I was eager to test settings and for a very short moment (max 1 sec) used high gain with my Alessandro MS-1 (32 ohm). I had the volume at 50% and the volume became really high when I changed the gain. I don´t know if it´s my imagination or if I hear a slight hissing sound in certain parts of songs and I definitely hear some cracking (the most apparent example I found was with _Mellisa Walker - A Time For Love_) On most songs I can´t identify any faults at all. But if the headphones are damaged maybe the faults are beyond my experience.
   
  Is it paranoia or have I forever damaged my Alessandro´s?
  How big is the risk?
   
  I´m sorry but, since I´m a noob I can´t discuss in advanced technical - and soundscape words.


----------



## WrxSTI

Something similar happened to me, take a look: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/522717/volume-damage#post_7054657
  I don't think you have a reason to worry.


----------



## s0kkiplast

I hope you´re right. A similar story happened to me when I had a party and someone turned the volume up. I freaked out that time too and imagined some distortions. But I´m still not convinced. The hard thing is that I don´t even have one hour  of listening with this card to compare. Now I just think everything sounds just awesome! Well...the problems of the industrialized countries....
   
  Edit*
  I play _Yim Hok Man - Poem of Chinese Drums _and it actually sound like something in my right can is vibrating, like a loose screw. It isn´t something physical, could it be that I damaged the cans?


----------



## Epiteto

Hi Sokkyplast, It seem to be a comon problem for Grados..
  Look here, there is a solution
http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=4613&srch=
   
  It worked with my sr125
  Bye!


----------



## Shark50521

Quote: 





demi9od said:


> I've just recently purchased a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990s, in the 32ohm flavor.  I went with the easier to drive 32ohm so I'd have no trouble with volume from my Creative X-Fi or portable device.  I've now decided these cans are home bound permanently, they are just too bulky for the iPod, I'll stick with my IEMs for that.  I also decided I was unsatisfied with the output from my X-Fi, and have an Essence STX on order as a replacement, along with two LME49720's.  The question at hand; my Beyer's are still within 30 days of the original purchase, and I will no longer have the original power restrictions imposed by my weak sources.  Should I attempt a trade up to the 250 or 600ohm version of these cans for use with the Essence STX?  I am very pleased with their sonic signature, but fear I may be losing some transparency with the 32ohm version now that I will be capable of driving the more power hungry versions.


 

 I have the 600ohm 990's and I think the essence drives them quite well


----------



## Reputator

It's been a while since anybody talked about OPAMPs in this thread. A few notes.
   
  I just got a pair of LT1057 in today. Stuck those in the I/V with the stock LM4562 in the buffer. Listening to a few songs so far, I immediately notice a loss in soundstage and slightly inferior imaging compared to the LME49720NA I had in the I/V before (LM6172 as buffer). A little warmer, little bassier (still really tight), not quite the treble emphasis (still better treble than bone stock), but without the crazy separation. Bass seems to get a little more in the sub region. Overall it's OK, not a slamdunk over what I had before. They may not be quite as detailed either, but vocals are a little more forward I think. Also it seems I have to turn the volume up a little more with the LT1057.
   
  I got OPA2107s on their way so we'll see how that goes.


----------



## Reputator

In the end I found the LT1057 too dark with my setup, especially with the DT990s. The sound just wasn't very engaging coming from the LME49720NAs. I found myself longing to put the those back in as I was listening to songs on the LT1057. The sound was good, just wasn't anything special to write home about. But I held off putting the LME49720s back in because I knew I'd be getting the OPA2107s in the next day.
   
  Now that I got the OPA2107s in, I have a feeling I'm gonna be leaving them in for a good while. One particular track I seem to always go to first when testing these opamps is AC/DC's A Whole Lot of Rosie. It's a crazy track but with the wrong audio setup, it can sound dry. You have to get the tone just right, and from the get-go the OPA2107s nailed it. It was the most fun I've had listening to the song in a while. I can't go into much details yet on the sound characteristics, other than "whoa, bass", but I'm sure I'll have some enjoyable experiences testing them out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Sure, great thing about opamps is you can tune your card to your personal taste.  I find the OPA2107's quite good and produce excellent sound in the ST(X) cards.
  Enjoy.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

I have the Essence ST with my Senn HD 650s and I like the wide soundstage, marvellous details and clarity.  I don't like occasional pops, clicks and loud cracks (I hope the Uni Driver ends this problem) and I find the treble and upper midrange a bit too much on the card.  I don't think I can call it distortion as such, but it bends my ears a little bit.
   
  I'm wondering if anybody could recommend me some op-amps that reduce the the treble and midrange ''agression" and give an overall smoother sound while using the headphone out.  I haven't used the line out much, but I'd hope that doesn't suffer with the op-amp change.
   
  Obviously, the op-amps need to be stable.  I also don't have the skills to solder adapters myself.  I have seen discrete modules like the Burson, but I worry that the removal of the shield could reduce sound quality (and these are also very expensive).  I live in Sydney, Australia.
   
  So, if somebody could help me achieve increased smoothness, particularly in the treble and midrange, and more body and weight, I'd be very happy.
   
  Thanks and kind regards,
   
  Peter.


----------



## walsh

How do the OPA2107 compare with the OPA2134?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





walsh said:


> How do the OPA2107 compare with the OPA2134?


 

 All the opamps in that family have a similar sound but the OPA2107 is considered the best out of that family.  Your ears would have to make the final call though.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Robscix, which one of these is the specific OPA2107?
   
http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=WRNCWSB030BZ0CWNBBSBFTY?N=0&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=OPA2107&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&suggestions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=336959
   
  Does this have a similar sonic effect to what I described I was looking for via the headphone out?
   
  Would you recommend this also for the buffer for the line out (although it doesn't effect headphones)?
   
  Thanks,
   
  Peter.


----------



## Reputator

After further listening, much swapping back and forth (which makes it sound less of a pain in the ass than it really is), I have indeed settled on the OPA2107 + LM4562NA (which I'll to shorthand "OPAs" from this point on). Compared to LME49720NA + LM6172 (shorthanded "LMEs"), I lose some realism with some instruments, particularly the piano, which sounds almost lower pitched than it should. Some instruments I actually gain realism, such as flutes, clarinets, and some varieties of bow/string instruments, where the body of the instrument is better conveyed. I lose some of the massively wide space and instrument separation, and light, airy and open sound that can actually seem more refined and higher-end much of the time. For many this would be considered an upgrade, and if it were in the form of a full-size amp, people might spend an extra $500+ on a increase like that. The cool thing about opamp rolling is you can get the same sort of upgrade for like $13, and the beauty is if I ever feel the need to return to that sound signature, I can just open a drawer and whip out those opamps again. For now, the OPAs are staying.
   
  Really though it's simply a difference in priorities and tone. LMEs prioritize the highs more, OPAs prioritize the lows, and both have excellent mids with very different characters. The OPAs have more weight and body, lots of warmth but with an enveloping sound. The soundstage isn't as wide as the LMEs, but it's very three-dimensional, surrounding you with all the elements in the song and extending deep with layers on layers giving an almost holographic presentation. Sometimes it can be a little harder to hear some of the really quiet background elements, like background strings on a pop song, or the plucking guitar behind an orchestra, compared to the LMEs, which sort through all the elements more effortlessly. On the LMEs, nothing is really given much weight over anything else, and this was a problem for some people when it came to voices (which didn't really bother me). The OPAs like to let the more prominent elements be brought forward at full force, so the full impact is felt. Sometimes this makes things sound congested and muddled a bit, but it's not really that big a problem. Bass just hands-down goes to the OPAs. They hit hard, go low, and make themselves known. They might run into the lower midrange a little, but this helps sweeten things up a bit in my opinion. Highs on the OPA, while not quite as prominent as on LMEs, don't draw attention to themselves in any negative way. They're fast and balanced with the rest of the spectrum, and work very nicely with the overall sound. The LMEs put emphasis on the highs, which contributes to their airy nature, but can sound a little unnatural on headphones that don't have the benefit of distance between the driver and the ears to help make decay (a crucial element in realism) more natural such as with speakers.
   
  Overall the warmth and tone seems to get into the "soul" and intention of the music better than the more neutral, technically superior sound. You feel the OPAs more on a visceral level, getting more emotionally involved in the music and, to my ears and with my setup, just enjoying it more. To me that's priority over technical prowess.
   
  The buffer plays a pretty big role here as well. The LM4562 did the most to contribute to the congested nature, but really brought the velvety smooth warmth and bubbly nature to the table that I simply didn't get using the LM6172 as buffer with the OPAs. The LM6172 turned the OPAs into something almost indiscernible from the LMEs: light, airy, with little bass weight or impact, but good instrument delineation, which I thought was strange. The LM4562 with the LMEs helped warm up the mids a little, but did little to change the bass characteristics, which remained tight and less pronounced. With all opamps I have (hardly a fraction of what some people here have), I could try literally hundreds of combinations, but I doubt my patience and the opamp sockets themselves could withstand that much testing, and at certain points, such as the OPA2107s + LM6172 combo, things start to run together and you can't tell much apart anyway. I'd rather not drive myself mad with all the variations.


----------



## walsh

Wow, great descriptions Reputator, exactly what I was looking for!


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Is there any particular OP-AMP combo people recommend if the card is being mainly used with the headphone out?
   
  Something that smooths out (and maybe reduces) the treble and adds body and weight without compromising detail, soundstage and bass response?
   
  Cheers.


----------



## Dibster

I've had really weird times with the Essence STX over these couple of years.
   
  Not that the card isn't working properly, not at all. But nothing about it makes sense. First of all, I find the line-out to be just as powerful and controlled as the headphone out for my HD650's. Secondly, the tonal difference between line-out and HP-out is immense. Line-out is quite warm and smooth, and in my books high quality, while the HP out is HARSH HARSH HARSH in the treble.


----------



## Reputator

Wish I could help you Bing, but I've only tried a handful of opamps and none of them fit what you're looking for. Help is hard to come by, you may just have to do a lot of reading and testing of opamps yourself to find exactly what suits you. Fortunately opamps are generally pretty cheap.
   
  Another good option for a buffer with the OPA2107s I'm discovering is the LT1057. It's neutral with a touch of warmth so it doesn't change the core sound of the OPA2107s much at all, and sorts through multiple instruments better, reducing the congesting you sometimes get, and improving on the realism of pianos.


----------



## gurubhai

Which gain setting are you using with headphone out ?
  Quote: 





dibster said:


> I've had really weird times with the Essence STX over these couple of years.
> 
> Not that the card isn't working properly, not at all. But nothing about it makes sense. First of all, I find the line-out to be just as powerful and controlled as the headphone out for my HD650's. Secondly, the tonal difference between line-out and HP-out is immense. Line-out is quite warm and smooth, and in my books high quality, while the HP out is HARSH HARSH HARSH in the treble.


----------



## Dibster

Tried both high and very high. Can't seem to notice any difference when volume matched with an SPL meter.


----------



## Funkx

Quote: 





bingcrosby1903 said:


> I have the Essence ST with my Senn HD 650s and I like the wide soundstage, marvellous details and clarity.  I don't like occasional pops, clicks and loud cracks (I hope the Uni Driver ends this problem) and I find the treble and upper midrange a bit too much on the card.  I don't think I can call it distortion as such, but it bends my ears a little bit.
> 
> I'm wondering if anybody could recommend me some op-amps that reduce the the treble and midrange ''agression" and give an overall smoother sound while using the headphone out.  I haven't used the line out much, but I'd hope that doesn't suffer with the op-amp change.
> 
> ...


 


  Hi Bing,
   
  I haven't read the whole thread, so maybe it was mentioned before:
  you may try the Audio-gd discrete OpAmps. They are very similar to the Burson ones but much cheaper. Ok, you have to remove the shield, but I don't think that it will harm much. You can also get extension leads from Audio-gd which may help here.
   
  I tried them on an Audiotrak HD2 Deluxe and they are awesome! Much better - in my favour - than all the others I tried (stock, OPA 627, LM 4562, OPA 2111 and finally, found them as an insider tip, THS4032).
   
  Take a look: http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/OPA/OPAEN.htm
   
  Alex


----------



## BingCrosby1903

I've also wondered about the line out for headphones, even though it is not amplified.  Most importantly, is it electronically safe for the headphones and card?  I'm assuming the DC offset will be fine but there will be a big impedance mismatch?
   
  It seems a bit fuller with less treble, maybe with a bit less dynamic swing.  Perhaps it could be the presence of the LM4562 stock?
   
  The gain of it is quite good actually, I think its + 6 dB relative to the normal setting on the card.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





bingcrosby1903 said:


> I've also wondered about the line out for headphones, even though it is not amplified.  Most importantly, is it electronically safe for the headphones and card?  I'm assuming the DC offset will be fine but there will be a big impedance mismatch?
> 
> It seems a bit fuller with less treble, maybe with a bit less dynamic swing.  Perhaps it could be the presence of the LM4562 stock?
> 
> ...


 
  Line out will work for relativly high impedance phones that still have good voltage sensitivity but the high output impedance will erase most of that +6db advantage with 100 to 150 ohm impedance phones, even more so with low impedance phones. You will also loose some of the very low frequency extension due to the coupling caps with headphones. The headphone amp is D.C. coupled which means no low frequency rolloff at all no matter what the impedance of the phones. The sound may be fuller in the mids due to losses in the coupling caps being greater at high frequencies with the line outs. The line outs will probably not work that well with very high impedance phones as these usually have lower voltage senstivity. Interestingly though the high frequencies to me sound quite harsh with the coupling caps so I removed them & found smoother but massively detailed highs with the lineouts when driving my powered speakers (modded BX5's). This was due to the lower level high frequencies being masked by the coupling caps & only the more spikey elements of the cymbles getting through. With the coupling caps gone there is no low frequency roll off at all but the bass still has better detail which may lead people to think there is bass rolloff when there is actually none.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

@ germanium I have HD 650s btw.  
   
  So you think that this perceived harsh high frequency I'm hearing is just because I'm used to a less detailed/ rolled off sound?  
  When I try a foobar EQ for instance to roll off the treble, it starts to sound "smoother" but losses detail.
   
  Or, it could be because I've read forum posts about harsh treble and my brain is telling me "It's Xonar ST!  It's harsh!  Ear/headache now!!!".
  Funny thing though, I find the onboard amp far less fatiguing than my MF X can v3 valve amp.  I think its actually ... better.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





bingcrosby1903 said:


> @ germanium I have HD 650s btw.
> 
> So you think that this perceived harsh high frequency I'm hearing is just because I'm used to a less detailed/ rolled off sound?
> When I try a foobar EQ for instance to roll off the treble, it starts to sound "smoother" but losses detail.
> ...


 
  I found the headphone amp on my Xonar STX to be no more harsh than my preamp when hooked to the modded RCA outs of the sound card or my modded SACD player line outs in fact they all sound tonally exactly the same. The only advantage of one over the other is lower noise coming from my soundcard. The SACD player has a low grade of DAC but nontheless has really good tone though does get a little conjested on some really complex music that the soundcard does well on. simpler music sounds great on the SACD player though. I think much of the harshness people complain about is the card revealing poor mastering as I have many good recordings that have no harshness at all & yet very detailed. This is true even with my most revealing earphones the ER4P. Most of my music has no harshness, only poorly mastered ones.  Many pop & rock recordings are poorly mastered, some like Supertramp Breakfast in America is downright unlistenable on anything I have here, even my warmest most bass oriented phones no matter what device I use, even my media players. Its too bad because I love Supertramps music.


----------



## BingCrosby1903

Yeah, I had a really expensive Naim CDX2 as a home dem once and it sounded better but a bit harsher up high than my MF CD player.
   
  I was on another forum the other day about mods to improve the detail and soundstage of my valve amp, and they said that the Xonar was not a "Hi-Fi" source, and that the valve amp was showing up its floors.  I just replied that I heard details that get lost with the valve amp.
   
  The valve amp made it smoother and easier sure, but killed detail and soundstage, and sounded mushy.
   
  $2 IC FTW!


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





bingcrosby1903 said:


> Yeah, I had a really expensive Naim CDX2 as a home dem once and it sounded better but a bit harsher up high than my MF CD player.
> 
> I was on another forum the other day about mods to improve the detail and soundstage of my valve amp, and they said that the Xonar was not a "Hi-Fi" source, and that the valve amp was showing up its floors.  I just replied that I heard details that get lost with the valve amp.
> 
> ...


 


   This is common with mass market consummer grade tube gear. It is not true of profesional tube amps. Profesional tube amps can be every bit as articulate & even more so than good profesional transistor gear. How do I know this you ask? Because I had a freind that died a few years ago that worked for A&M Records in thier hayday & was thier chief sound engineer. He built some of thier gear & kept the rest in top notch working order. He built a tube amp that was based off the old Western Electric tube design that was the most articulate amp I have heard to date & yet it was extremely listenable as well. A couple things that it was not though was mushy & rolled off. It truely captured the life & dynamics of the music.
   
  The models were the ATP 25 & ATP 50. These were pure class A1 limited amps with zero feedback. The ATP 25 was to go for 3500 dollars & the ATP 50 was to go for 7000 dollars. He sold the design before he died to someone else who cheapened the design & charged 40,000 dollars for the ATP50 equivolent amp. There is no ATP 25 eqivolent from that company the last I checked. When I say equivolent that is because the names of the amp model is different with the new company.


----------



## Trysaeder

Does the STX have a line out?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





trysaeder said:


> Does the STX have a line out?


 


   Yes The 2 RCA jacks on the back panel


----------



## Trysaeder

It doesn't really sound like a line out....I can hear things fine, which suggests that it has been amped.
  Quote: 





germanium said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





trysaeder said:


> It doesn't really sound like a line out....I can hear things fine, which suggests that it has been amped.


 


   Output impedance is higher than headphone out. About 100 ohms as opposed to 10ohms from the headphone amp. Voltage level is the proper 2 volts RMS peak, the same as the line out of a CD player. Most CD players have higher ouput impedance than the line out of this card, typically 600-1000 ohms which makes them cable sensitive whereas the soundcards line out would not be even close to as cable sensitive. you can get very good sound out of any cable on this sound card.. you can get audible sound out of any lineout but not very much out of some CD players due to thier high output impdance. The output of the soundcard is buffered with an amp just like any other line out from a CD player, only difference is ouput impedance. It is a proper line out. I would like to see all CD players with an output impedance of between 50-100 ohms as this would elliminate the need for all those expensive interconnects as they would sound no better or no worse than a cheap cable on the same line out


----------



## KMakau

Does the STX amplifier still work if you use front PC case audio connectors with the card?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





kmakau said:


> Does the STX amplifier still work if you use front PC case audio connectors with the card?


 

 All output functions use the headphone amp on the front panel connections, even the front panel line out. Caution needs to be noted if you use the front panel line out to conect to high gain D.C. coupled amps as there is significant D.C. offset compared to the RCA jacks in the back. That is true even if you D.C. couple the RCA jacks output like I did. The RCA jack have almost zero D.C. offset either way. The reap panel headphone jack does not work when any front panel output function is active


----------



## InFn-0

Just realized the line out sounds much better than the hp out on my STX card with AKG K601 phones. There is a lot of difference, easily apparent to whoever has tried.


----------



## alien3456

I recently got a Little Dot MKIII and switched from HP-out to RCA and the difference is pretty incredible. Tried using both as input for the tube amp and the RCA line-out wins unquestionably.
   
  Question: Does the STX handle 2-channel sound any differently when you choose more than 2 speakers in the driver's application? For surround sound sources (games and movies), it clearly sounds "right" when I pick the correct amount of speakers and "wrong" if I select too few, but I can't tell a difference when listening to stereo music when set to 6 or 8 channels. Is there any difference or would it be acceptable to leave it set to 8 channels at all times? This is with 2-channel headphones as the output, obviously.


----------



## KMakau

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Ah, I just was planning to leave my headphones plugged into the front since even with a 10 foot cord, I have my case on the floor and wouldn't be able to extend the cord all around the room. However, I can using the front panel (the front jacks are actually located on the top of my case, it's extremely convenient).


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've read that the OPA2111KP's are better than OPA2107. true? I'm thinking of using that OPA2111KP's. Any opinions?


----------



## Reputator

Well after doing more experimenting and testing the last few days, I think I finally settled on a buffer I'm happy with. Here's a breakdown of what I've tried.
   
*2x OPA2107AP + LM4562NA*
  This is the warmest combination. It's got the most bass, and just a gooey caramel-sweet midrange, with excellent dynamics. This can make fun songs more fun, but it's not for serious listening. It's poor with delineating between a lot of instruments, turning some songs into a bit of a murky mess, and just overall doesn't sound very refined or highend.
   
*2x OPA2107AP + LT1057*
  A very good combination, with punchy, adequate bass, smooth treble and really, just smooth throughout the frequency range. The midrange is the most neutral of the three, but still has just a touch of warmth. It has a really clear and controlled sound, but lacks just a bit in dynamics, resulting in having to fiddle with the volume a lot, more often than not in the upward direction.
   
*2x OPA2107AP + JRC2114D* (new favorite)
  A day or two after trying the LT1057 as buffer, I decided to try something I had pretty much ruled out altogether originally. The stock configuration on the STX Essence gives fuzzy treble, poor soundstaging and imaging, and separation. I figured this was a flaw in the JRC opamp, but sticking one of these in the buffer under the OPA2107s yielded some very impressive results. These add some treble sparkle, increasing the perception of detail and air and separation. They're also just a hair more punchy in the bass than the LT1057, going low but staying tight, and giving very satisfying results. The sound overall is very neutral, with a hint more warmth in the midrange than the LT1057, but balancing everything out with some very nice clean, sparkly highs that really add dimension and realism to the sound. Overall the most realistic and refined sounding of the other combos, not to mention the most detailed, and I don't think I'm gonna get better out of the OPA2107s with what I have. Soundstage is the widest of the bunch, and what really distinguishes this combo is how prominent the background elements are, never buried under other sounds, and on well recorded music this combo has the best separation of any of them I've tried. It's right up there with the LME49720s, but with added warmth and bass. It's really like being able to have my cake and eat it too. Only drawbacks are with really hot tracks the treble can be a bit much, and with the prominence of the background elements things can sound a little less coherent as far as which instruments are in the proper place in the mix. For this reason I spent a lot of time switching back and forth with the JRC and LT1057 to simply see which made songs more enjoyable, and even though the LT1057 might shove background elements further back where they sometimes belong, I found myself just enjoying the level of fidelity and realism with the JVCs more, and they still do well getting at the intent of the music regardless.
   
  Any combo of opamps I tried resulting in a super neutral sound without adequate bass was ruled out immediately, and this included the LM6172 that I tried really briefly as a buffer with the OPAs. I knew I wanted some warmth, and that the OPA2017s were the opamps to give it, but I also wanted to give up as little as possible in the technical areas of sound quality. I'm willing to sacrifice a little on the technical side to achieve more immersive and enjoyable (foot tapping) sound, but only up to a certain point, and the LM4562s went past that point on too many occasions. Switching opamps is a pain, which is why I was desperate to find the perfect match that will suit all my needs, and I feel I got as close as I can reasonably expect to that, until the time comes I'm ready to try out more highend opamps.


----------



## serious7

is there a link on how to change op amps on the card? I am trying to look for information on how the 3 slots can be configured and I need a pictorial guide..


----------



## subtle

Quote:


infn-0 said:


> Just realized the line out sounds much better than the hp out on my STX card with AKG K601 phones. There is a lot of difference, easily apparent to whoever has tried.


 

 Strange.  I get no sound output at all through the Line Out.


----------



## genclaymore

To use line out you have to set analog out to 2 speakers which will send it out the RCAs, While headphone sends it out the headphone amp. InFn-O have you tried using high gain with your AKG 601s? Because for my AKG 702 headphone amp out sound best on them but then I using the high gain setting for my AKG 702s, which I read is recommanded for them with the ST/X cards.


----------



## drez

theres a picture of the opamp sockets on the box, if you still have it lying around.
   
  apart from that, once you remove the metal heat shield, held, use needle nose/other pliers to remove opamp, pulling upwards.  They are jammed in there quite tightly, so your fingers wont work.
   
  important thing is to take note of circular dimple on the installed opamps.  They're all oriented the same, but this is the important part.  All opamps will have a marker showing this pin to allow for easy installation.
   
  If you take note of this BEFORE you remove them, theres no real need for reading of circuit diagrams etc.
   
  I might do a video guide one of these times, maybe when i go discrete.  
   
  But otherwise be brave - its pretty hard to get wrong as long as you take note of the orientation markers.


----------



## serious7

Quote: 





drez said:


> theres a picture of the opamp sockets on the box, if you still have it lying around.
> 
> apart from that, once you remove the metal heat shield, held, use needle nose/other pliers to remove opamp, pulling upwards.  They are jammed in there quite tightly, so your fingers wont work.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm really scared of doing it alone in fear of damaging it..So I basically use pliers and pull UP? When I replace the op amps do i have to make it tight like the stock op amps?


----------



## drez

yep when using pliers just use enough force until it starts moving.  They are in there quite tight, but still be patient.
   
  When replacing then push down until the body of the opamp the recepticle/socket thing.  Shouldn't take much force.  About the same feel as pulling a power plug out of a wall socket for your hair dryer.
   
  Be patient, make sure everything is lined up the same with the round indent/socket 1 marker, and everything should be pretty straightforward.
   
  If all else fails, the socket 1 marker should be to the bottom left, and text on the new opamp should be right way up!
   

   
  pink circle shows the I/V opamps, blue shows the buffer.  In this view, the socket 1 will be aligned bottom left.
   
  Image modified from: http://www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=16872


----------



## msshadowman

Since the ST is better, do you suggest buying it instead of the STX?
   
  I already have a X-Fi card, so will that be an upgrade that's woth it?
   
  And will I need a seperate amp on the DT 880/600 or will its HP amp suffice?


----------



## Angelbelow

Cool thread, will definitely be reading through. Funny story... I had the asus stx essence for about a month before I changed my sampling rate for 192kbps and default format to 24bit, 192000 Hz... im such a noob..


----------



## chinesekiwi

Well, I think I'm down to four:
   
  either the OPA2107, OPA2111, AD826,  AD827
  Anyone tried the AD826 / AD827?


----------



## serious7

Quote: 





drez said:


> yep when using pliers just use enough force until it starts moving.  They are in there quite tight, but still be patient.
> 
> When replacing then push down until the body of the opamp the recepticle/socket thing.  Shouldn't take much force.  About the same feel as pulling a power plug out of a wall socket for your hair dryer.
> 
> ...


 


  This is such a helpful post! What OP AMP's should I buy for my setup? STX -> Lehmann BCL -> HD 650?
   
  I am looking for something smooth and lively.


----------



## InFn-0

[size=medium]I think you forgot to switch from Headphones to Speakers settings, for that you have to go to Xonar Audio Center and choose the 2 speakers settings.​[/size]


  Quote: 





subtle said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> infn-0 said:
> ...


 


   
  Yep, actually i was using it my phones with the high gain setting and also the extra high gain setting. The problem i faced with the amplifier chip was the harshness, kinda took the fun of music away. I can hear bass lines more clearly with the line out and also imaging is considerable improved, realized this thing about imaging when i heard some techno numbers, i would suggest you try it out also, was quite a bummer for me. Btw i m just plugging the phones directly into line out no amps in between.
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> To use line out you have to set analog out to 2 speakers which will send it out the RCAs, While headphone sends it out the headphone amp. InFn-O have you tried using high gain with your AKG 601s? Because for my AKG 702 headphone amp out sound best on them but then I using the high gain setting for my AKG 702s, which I read is recommanded for them with the ST/X cards.


----------



## genclaymore

The I/V are used when you use the headphone amp out on the ST/X. the OP-amps in the I/Vs are JRCs, when your using the line out your using I/V and the buffer. the buffer has the LME4562s in them.  The JRCs in the I/V should be replaced asap.  My AKG 702 will not sound right or be driven if I plugged them directly into the line out instead of the headphone amp. It be like the issue I had on the Auzen Bravura I had but thru the line out of the STX instead.
   
  Your sound is being effected by the JRCs in the I/V try changing them to some OPA2107AP, you would need two of them as there dual channel op-amps. OPA6#7 and OPA827 are another good choices but you need 2 pair of them on a adaptor and may need to be heating tools. But the Default JRCs in your I/Vs is what making it not sound the way you want it and have that sound sig that you heard out your headphones.
   
  2x OPA2107AP is what I currenty use in my I/V on my STX thru its headphone amp while I waiting on some OPA827s being done for me.


----------



## InFn-0

I tried the LME49720NA in my card but it did nt work out well, no synergy, music was way too laid back and lifeless. I really like the sound signature of the line out, would it be sensible to put the LM4562s in the I/V section? 
   
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The I/V are used when you use the headphone amp out on the ST/X. the OP-amps in the I/Vs are JRCs, when your using the line out your using I/V and the buffer. the buffer has the LME4562s in them.  The JRCs in the I/V should be replaced asap.  My AKG 702 will not sound right or be driven if I plugged them directly into the line out instead of the headphone amp. It be like the issue I had on the Auzen Bravura I had but thru the line out of the STX instead.
> 
> Your sound is being effected by the JRCs in the I/V try changing them to some OPA2107AP, you would need two of them as there dual channel op-amps. OPA6#7 and OPA827 are another good choices but you need 2 pair of them on a adaptor and may need to be heating tools. But the Default JRCs in your I/Vs is what making it not sound the way you want it and have that sound sig that you heard out your headphones.


----------



## dirkpitt45

If anyone (US or Canada) is looking to move their STX I'll be happy to put an offer in for it. I have no room on my desk for a DAC...


----------



## serious7

What OP AMP's should I buy for my setup? STX -> Lehmann BCL -> HD 650?

   

  I am looking for something smooth and lively.


----------



## Demi9OD

Is there any harm in using different opamps in I/V for testing purposes?  I realize you always want to match I/V due to the L/R channel, but wanted to be able to compare different opamps at the same time by using one for each ear.
   
  I currently have multiple 49720NA, OPA2137, 2132, and 2277.  Waiting on back ordered OPA2107, and my LT order with LT1057, LT1358, and LT1364.  These will be matched with my DT990s, most likely from the HP port as I use the RCAs for my Klipsch Promedia 2.1 system and do want Dolby Headphone available for gaming.  I am more concerned with matching the opamps to the DT990s than the speakers, as I don't ever really crank the speakers in my apartment.  If anyone has suggestions among my listed opamps and cans, I'd be happy to hear them.


----------



## germanium

Guess I have to have 1001 posts to get the 1000+ posts rating eh?
   
  Any way I'm going to be a poor man for the next 6 years so my computer stuff is going to be limited at best for a long while now. I had to get a new car for work so now in hock up to my eyeballs in debt. I won't be quite as active as I was for a while due to this but I will still be posting from time to time if I feel I may have something worthwhile to say about the topic at hand. I do love my computer as it stands now though.


----------



## Steve-o27

Quote: 





demi9od said:


> Is there any harm in using different opamps in I/V for testing purposes?  I realize you always want to match I/V due to the L/R channel, but wanted to be able to compare different opamps at the same time by using one for each ear.
> 
> I currently have multiple 49720NA, OPA2137, 2132, and 2277.  Waiting on back ordered OPA2107, and my LT order with LT1057, LT1358, and LT1364.  These will be matched with my DT990s, most likely from the HP port as I use the RCAs for my Klipsch Promedia 2.1 system and do want Dolby Headphone available for gaming.  I am more concerned with matching the opamps to the DT990s than the speakers, as I don't ever really crank the speakers in my apartment.  If anyone has suggestions among my listed opamps and cans, I'd be happy to hear them.


 

 The 2111KPs are pretty decent in the I/Vs.


----------



## serious7

What OP AMP's should I buy for my setup? STX -> Lehmann BCL -> HD 650?

   

  I am looking for something that sounds better than stock op amps.


----------



## Demi9OD

I got a chance to roll through a couple of my OP AMP's tonight, the 49720NA and OPA2137.  These were used with HP out to my DT990s 32ohm on the 64-300ohm (high) setting.  I found the +0db to be a little under where I like to do comparison.
   
  49720 - I've been using these for about two weeks, since I first got the Essence, and I had much preferred them to the stock JRC2114s.  The 49720 really opened up the sound stage, but the treble could be a bit harsh.
   
  OPA2137 - I am no expert at verbalizing sound, but I was just blown away by the OPA.  It just sounds so lush and holographic.  I know the 990s are a bass heavy can, but it is not overbearing on the OPA, but it absolutely has huge presence and texture.  Electric guitar made me feel like I could feel it just a little through my feet.  I hope this Ethereal signature is similar with the 2107 I am waiting on, can't wait to try it.


----------



## Joe007

Really happy for the STX sound. The amp function is really not bad. And STX is the start point for my hi fi journey. The K702 can shine with my mod STX!


----------



## serious7

where can I order op amps as I live in Canada?


----------



## Dealth0072

Anyone can help me with installing the Uni Xonar drivers?
   
  I attempted to last night but whenever I booted back into Windows, no sound device could be recognized.


----------



## genclaymore

when you use the asio 1.0 patch it installs a driver that not signed and you have to use a tool that signs it after its installed like the NGHQ driver signature enforcement overrider tool.


----------



## Dealth0072

Alright, because I'd like that patch, is there a guide for this anywhere?


----------



## serious7

What happens if You use a mix up of OP Amps. For instance, putting a 49720 in buffer/IV and a LM6172IN in the other IV?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





serious7 said:


> What happens if You use a mix up of OP Amps. For instance, putting a 49720 in buffer/IV and a LM6172IN in the other IV?


 


  Different sounding channels (and potential distortion of signal) = never a good thing.


----------



## serious7

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   I see. lol.
   
  So I did some research on all the opamps on this thread. It seems the lme49720 is very very popular amongst everyone here. But I'm just wondering why is it so good if the OPA series of OP amps cost more?


----------



## serious7

Can someone post a link for the adaptor and instructions I need to use LME49720HA on the STX card? Or if there aren't any instructions can someone explain what is required for me to get that op amp to work (what needs to be soldered and where)?. I've done soldering in Grade 10 and I'm in 2nd year UNI and haven't soldered since then...so is that safe? In terms of soldering I've only done wiring and 0 hardware lol.


----------



## deusofhearts

Two different versions of this available on some websites.  One with MFG Part # 90-YAA0C0-0UAN00Z that costs $10 less than the other with MFG Part # XONAR ESSENCE STX.  Any differences?  Is the cheaper one OEM?


----------



## subtle

I noticed that one has a Lifetime Warranty and the other does not.  I have to believe it is some kind of error.  Can't imagine there would be a lifetime warranty.


----------



## s0kkiplast

I have problem with ground noise or hissing since I upgraded to this card. Everything else amazes me about it. I use Alessandro MS1 headphones with the card. OS is WinXP, foobar2000 with ASUS Xonar ASIO as output. I tested several, if not all, combinations of sample rate and bit-depth, but still get the hissing. I disabled the onboard sound to see if that would help but no. Most of the music I play are flac in 16-bit and 44.1 sample rate. The hissing is not noticable on some recordings, barely noticable on some and CLEARLY noticable on some, especially classic and jazz recordings.
   
  What would you say my problem is?
   
  I figured that I could use the other analog out (not the headphone output) but can´t seem to get any sound out of it. I recently had a mic connected to that output, is that why I don´t get any sound out of it? The Alessandro aren´t that hard to drive so that´s why I figured the other output would do it without putting any stress on the headphones and creating this hiss. But I really don´t know if this is the problem, and I would rather use the headphone output...


----------



## InFn-0

To use the analog out you have to change the setting to 2 speakers from headphone. Below is a picture to help you out.


----------



## Steve-o27

Quote: 





s0kkiplast said:


> I have problem with ground noise or hissing since I upgraded to this card. Everything else amazes me about it. I use Alessandro MS1 headphones with the card. OS is WinXP, foobar2000 with ASUS Xonar ASIO as output. I tested several, if not all, combinations of sample rate and bit-depth, but still get the hissing. I disabled the onboard sound to see if that would help but no. Most of the music I play are flac in 16-bit and 44.1 sample rate. The hissing is not noticable on some recordings, barely noticable on some and CLEARLY noticable on some, especially classic and jazz recordings.
> 
> What would you say my problem is?


 

 Do a clean uninstall + registry clean and then reinstall the latest drivers, I had my fare share with that hissing problem when I was overclocking my PC and stress testing it. I found out eons later that a Windows crash could seriously mess up the Xonar drivers...


----------



## s0kkiplast

Quote: 





infn-0 said:


> To use the analog out you have to change the setting to 2 speakers from headphone. Below is a picture to help you out.


 


  Tried that but no sound  Even after reinstalling...


  Quote: 





steve-o27 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ok tried that now but the hissing is still there. Any other suggestions?
  Thanks btw!


----------



## Steve-o27

Are you sure your records are of high quality?! Hook up your headphones to the RCA output of the card using the 2 X RCA => 3,5" jack adapter that comes in the box. If the hiss is still present then the issue is probably your audio files.
 Is the hissing present when watching a movie/playing a game?


----------



## s0kkiplast

Quote: 





steve-o27 said:


> Are you sure your records are of high quality?! Hook up your headphones to the RCA output of the card using the 2 X RCA => 3,5" jack adapter that comes in the box. If the hiss is still present then the issue is probably your audio files. Is the hissing present when watching a movie/playing a game?


 

 That´s a good idea! But the hissing is still there. It would be a shame if it were my heaphones that are damaged  One small chance/risk could be the 4-pin from my power source. I had no single cable to be put only in the card because most of my 4-pins are used for other stuff.
   
  As for the source...some could be bad. But most of my flac score 100% in EAC. And I hear the hissing in classic tracks from the Burmester Reference CD III


----------



## cyong11

Thank you for much thorough review that I need badly now. I will try this card installing LME49720, but I have never swapped opamps before. Any first timer can do this easy? How to get instructions?


----------



## gwillys

kind of funny seeing where this thread has gone. seems like no place. after much effort & expense modifying my ST, i left it behind around 4 months ago. went the dac route and finally have a nice computer based hi-fi. frankly, it blows the ST away. i wouldn't use a ST if you gave it to me. i still have lots of opa's from my ST adventure, but was able to use the burson components i bought for it on my dac, with a much better result.
   
  swapping opa's will not overcome the issues of the ST. if hi-fidelity is what your after, look elsewhere.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Sigh... that's the problem I see in you guys...
  I don't chnage the opamps, and I believe the original sound is good enough for me.
   
  I mean, sometimes, the more you're asking for, the more dispointments you'll get, and eventually you forgot what you originally wanted it for.
   
  THis is a nice card, relax, and enjoy.


----------



## mikeohara

I posted for some help with choosing headphones in the Headphones section, but I just now stumbled across this topic and had a brief question. Any of you running this card with a pair of DT990 600Ohm cans without issues? Have the driver issues I read about been resolved??


----------



## Robbbie

I can tell you first hand that the STX has no problem powering a set of 600ohm DT990's. Sure, a dedicated amp will be better, but the difference will be very small.


----------



## aleex

Since it seems to have a fairly powerful amp, are there any soundcards out there with amps inferior to this one but at a lower cost? I'm getting headphones for a maximum cost of about $200(pref. around $150 - $160) and although they might work without amplifiers, I'd still like to have a soundcard with one so I can rest assured that I'm getting as much as I can out ouf my cans as possible. To be more precise I've mainly looked at AKGs 242 HD

 But the ST/X is at least to me the absolute opposite of inexpensive and I've yet to find a low price in Europe incl. shipping, so are there any other alternatives out there? Or should one perhaps get a good DAC instead?A

 Also I'm probaby not going to upgrade my headphones in a long time after this. Basically I'll have them 'til they break, and I'm hoping they can hold up nicely for at least 2 - 3 years. I mean, I had a Sennheiser gaming headset a time ago, and it took 2½ years until one can stopped working.


----------



## loserica

Xonar sound card is a good but not up the quality of a dedicated external converter.


----------



## zibra

Anyone tried LT1028 as buffer in stx? I found AD797 nice sounding with it. I only search very good opamp for buffer stage as I have another headamp.


----------



## kashaju

Quote: 





12bass said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *leeperry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


 
  I am planning to replace my OP-Amps with LME49720 my Headphone is SENNHEISER HD 280 PRO (64OHMS) . I want to know  my headphone is good enough for   LME49720 Op-Amp.
  if i use OPA211 OP-Amps instead of LME49720 what is the performance difference. anybody have experience please help me....................


----------



## kashaju

Quote: 





kashaju said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  price wise OPA211 Indian Rupees  1500/- (around US$33), LME49720 Indian rupees 203 (US$ 4.5) only.  for average Indian OPA211 price is very high. but if sound quality is that much high & pure then i will buy OPA211....All audiophile experts please give me your valuable help........
   
  Thanks
  Shaju


----------



## walsh

Does anyone know if it matters whether the DIP8 socket is gold or silver? I am using 2 to fit two discrete op-amps. One is gold, the other silver. I'm pretty sure one channel is louder than the other. Could it be the adapter material or more likely my lousy soldering?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:  





> my lousy soldering


 

 your answer. gold and silver don't matter. the only reason gold is put on electronics is to make them last longer and be rust-free.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Possibly, but I think if it was soldering it would either work or not. The circuit is either connected or not, right?
   
  I'm pretty sure it's burn in, beacuse it's balancing out which I didn't think it would do (I installed one to use in the buffer before the other so it had about 10 hours more playtime). Burn-in seems to be really important in discrete op-amps.


----------



## walsh

Can someone tell me which op-amp is left and right channel in this pic?


----------



## kashaju

[size=small]



[/size]
  [size=small]The picture above better illustrates the opamp design and layout.  We have the JRC2114’s at the right hand side feeding the signal into the final buffer stage (LM4562) at the left.  Between the JRC2114’s and the LM4562 we have relays, when switching the card into headphone mode the relays change the output of the 2114D from the LM4562 to the (Hi-Z) Headphone amplifier chip offering more gain for your high end headphones.[/size]


----------



## walsh

Thanks, but I want to know which JRC op-amp is right-channel and which one is left-channel. Top or bottom?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





walsh said:


> Thanks, but I want to know which JRC op-amp is right-channel and which one is left-channel. Top or bottom?


 

 It won't matter if you got a pair of opamps / opamp rolling properly. Two different opamps in the left and right channels is not a good thing at all.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





walsh said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Although I don't believe in burn-in for opamps (as there is zero scientific evidence for it unlike dynamic moving coil headphones and earphones) you could try it but I'd guess it's far more lilkey dodgy soldering / dodgy solder material. That or faulty opamps.


----------



## Xaborus

Anybody here know a good opamp combo with the Xonar St and DT990/600 Ohms?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It matters for me because I'm trying to identify which op-amp is possibly defective. Do you know or not? It's okay if you don't, I won't flame you


----------



## genclaymore

Xaborus the  OPA2107AP's might work for you, tho I never heard the DT990/600ohm so i dont know for sure. they are Dip8, they like a cheaper ver of OPA627


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





walsh said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well I worked it out. The one closest to the edge is the right channel, if anyone is interested. Thanks guys


----------



## Eric M

Is there any place that sells this thing for less than $170 bucks?


----------



## drez

x2 on opa2107.  best I've tried so far.  dynamic, fast, bass is present.  Downside is treble is a little grainy to my ears, but I haven't burned in.  Good details also.


----------



## Eric M

Anyone know how many watts this thing draws? I've only got a 500W PSU and I bet I'm pretty close to the limit


----------



## tehort

Would the Xonar pair well with an AKG k701?


----------



## derbigpr

So, If you'd have to decide between this card or external DAC/amp like Audinst HUD-Mx1,  NuForce DAC2 or EMU 0202, what would you say is the best?  Headphones are Sennheiser HD558, I have onboard soundcard now.


----------



## Shark50521

Quote: 





xaborus said:


> Anybody here know a good opamp combo with the Xonar St and DT990/600 Ohms?
> 
> Thanks!


 


  What are you finding lacking with the current ones, I have the same pair of cans and like it stock so far, but I may be missing out.


----------



## tws1

arghaaghhaha 150 pages....


----------



## fallingreason

Quick question:
   
  I thought I read somewhere that for the best sound quality the card should be mounted at the bottom of your motherboard, i.e. no other PCI cards should be below it.
   
  Is this the case?  I want to put an aftermarket VGA cooler on my video card but that would cause it to take up 2 slots, and the only solution is moving it below the Xonar.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





tehort said:


> Would the Xonar pair well with an AKG k701?


 


  Yes it will, I using AKG 702  which is the same as the AKG 701 but with a detactable cable. I use high gain with the headphones. I use a pair of OPA2107AP in the I/V which works very well with them. So will the OPA827 op-amps.


----------



## shiarua

Hey guys, I just got my STX. I set up WASAPI in foobar, but I'm having an issue where if Im navigating through folders in the operating system, the windows system sound plays for folder navigation (the click sound). This interrupts playback for a split second, and its highly annoying.
   
  Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## TitaniumDust

Quote: 





shiarua said:


> Hey guys, I just got my STX. I set up WASAPI in foobar, but I'm having an issue where if Im navigating through folders in the operating system, the windows system sound plays for folder navigation (the click sound). This interrupts playback for a split second, and its highly annoying.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue?


 

 I had this issue with wasapi and asio.  I simply turned off all system sounds.


----------



## TitaniumDust

I have a question for everyone who owns this card.  I am running Win7 x64 with the STX RCA out connected through BJC LC-1 ICs to Matrix M-Stage amp and then to Grado SR-325is headphones.  My question is: what is everyone's thoughts on the best driver and setup to use for optimal sound quality through the rca outs?  I ask because I'm trying to determine if what I'm hearing is placebo or if there is definitely a difference.  I listen to lossless music with foobar and asio output.  I set control center to HF mode with the sample rate equal to that of my source.
   
  The drivers from last May (7.12.8.17731) in ASIO sound the best to me.  Better than previous drivers, and better than the newest driver 7.12.8.1792.  By better, I mean the imaging or soundstage is simply incredible with the 17731 drivers.  I miss that sound using DirectSound in any driver, and even ASIO in the newest driver.  The lows and highs sound cleaner as well.  Its not that the newest driver sounds bad - its still very good compared to other cards, but the older beta driver seems to sound the best to me.
   
  Does my setup sound right to you, and what are the experts' thoughts on the sound quality of the various drivers?  Is the difference I'm hearing real (it sure does seem real to me) or is it most likely placebo?


----------



## fallingreason

I'm not an expert, but I don't see why the driver would affect the sound, or even if it did, why ASUS would release drivers that are significantly different from one another, as I would assume they would try to keep the sound the same.
   
  It makes sense to me that the drivers have very very little to do with the sound compared to the hardware that is involved with the D > A processing.  I also would think ASUS revises small parts of the drivers in each new version leaving most of it the same, rather than change the entire driver to incorporate the fixes.


----------



## Roller

Some differences can be expected between drivers, but not on a level significant enough for someone to be able to discern noticeable sound differences. Like fallingreason said, drivers interfere next to nothing with the sound path, leaving the bulk of the work to the hardware. Though, new drivers are not composed of small fixes, mainly due to the periodicity when each driver is released.
   
  Anyway, if there's one thing Head-Fi taught, and taught well for that matter, is that the best sound for you it's what sounds best to your ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 so if driver 7.12.8.1731 sounds better than newer drivers, then as long as that beta driver doesn't cause any system instability or audio dropouts, I'd say go for it


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote:  





> Does my setup sound right to you, and what are the experts' thoughts on the sound quality of the various drivers?  Is the difference I'm hearing real (it sure does seem real to me) or is it most likely placebo?


 

 RMAA time!


----------



## jdsuowner

Hey Guys, 
   
  Was wondering what you think are the top 2 opamp combos for someone using the RCA outs. Currently I am using:
   
   
  (2) LME49720NA in IV
  (1) LM6172 in buffer
   
   
  This sounds better than stock but just wondering if there is a better combination out there (opinions of course).
   
  Thanks


----------



## TitaniumDust

Quote: 





fallingreason said:


> I'm not an expert, but I don't see why the driver would affect the sound, or even if it did, why ASUS would release drivers that are significantly different from one another, as I would assume they would try to keep the sound the same.
> 
> It makes sense to me that the drivers have very very little to do with the sound compared to the hardware that is involved with the D > A processing.  I also would think ASUS revises small parts of the drivers in each new version leaving most of it the same, rather than change the entire driver to incorporate the fixes.


 

 I agree, it doesn't make much sense from a hardware point of view.  Earlier in this thread, I read that several people came to the conclusion that the beta driver 17731 sounded better than the previous version, and I agreed with them.  I'm wondering now if whatever change they made in 17731 has been lost again with the newest driver, for whatever reason.  I'm just guessing here, but it seems that ASUS has the ability to reroute signals within the card, either physically (with the switch sound I keep hearing), and/or by enabling/disabling certain filters or processing at the driver level.  It could also be that driver 17731, which was beta, is the odd-man out, and doesn't truly represent what it should sound like.  I unfortunately don't have any other decent sources to compare with; hence my asking of the experts in this great forum.
   
  @Roller: I agree 100% !!


----------



## thomaz

Hi I'm looking the best op-amp combo with the xonar st & sennheiser hd 555


----------



## TitaniumDust

Quote: 





titaniumdust said:


> The drivers from last May (7.12.8.17731) in ASIO sound the best to me.  Better than previous drivers, and better than the newest driver 7.12.8.1792.  By better, I mean the imaging or soundstage is simply incredible with the 17731 drivers.  I miss that sound using DirectSound in any driver, and even ASIO in the newest driver.  The lows and highs sound cleaner as well.  Its not that the newest driver sounds bad - its still very good compared to other cards, but the older beta driver seems to sound the best to me.


 

 I'm quoting myself just in case anyone else runs into this.  I think I finally figured out my problem.  I was reading an unrelated thread and realized it was probably necessary to delete the ASIO devices in foobar and re-setup the device.  I think what was happening was that even though the output device was listed ASIO, it couldn't find the actual ASIO device name since it was changed between driver 17731 and 1792, thus resulting in non-ASIO playback.  Once I re-setup the ASIO device in foobar, that great sound from from 17731 seems to be the same as that heard in 1792.  My apologies for making such a simple mistake.


----------



## audionewbieyao

Glad to hear you get it solved.
  Cheers and enjoy the mustic now.


----------



## gurubhai

New driver for xonar STX is now available.


----------



## mattering

LIES!!!! I see no new drivers lol


----------



## gurubhai

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/PUB/ASUS/Audio_Card/Xonar_Essence_STX/


----------



## fufula

Thanks for the info, gurubhai.
   
  The new drivers are also available for ST (among a couple of other cards.)
  ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/PUB/ASUS/Audio_Card/Xonar_Essence_ST/


----------



## Alexi384

Does anyone have a circuit diagram/schematic for the STX ? Can't seem to find one anywhere.


----------



## mattering

My bad hehehehe  ....those drivers arent listed in the website though >__>


----------



## Alexi384

Drivers on website also now.
   
  Xonar Essence STX driver for Windows 7 32/64-bit Version: 7.12.8.1793
 1. Fix: When first open ASIO Panel, the Bit info is not shown correctly issue.
 2. Fix: Pop sound issue when play system test sound with DTS interactive enabled.
 3. Fix: When open Xonar AP and Xonar ASIO at same time, moving Xonar AP will cut the Xonar ASIO window.  Drivers are also on the Website now.


----------



## walsh

These new drivers seem to have increased the volume output somehow. Not that I'm complaining, I just noticed my amp doesn't need to go as high when i'm playing music or watching videos.


----------



## jdsuowner

Hey what opamp combos are you guys using nowadays? What seems to be the most popular opinions after all the testing that has gone through?


----------



## chinesekiwi

OPA 2107 / OPA2111KP's in I/V. Dunno about buffer opamps though. You only need to switch the buffer opamp if you use the line out. I use the headphone out to my amp (with the Asus headphone amp set to no gain) to bypass the average quality capacitors that degrade the sound.


----------



## Angelbelow

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I have the essence stx, windows 7, and using winamp. should i be worried about incorporating asio with my winamp/foobar?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





angelbelow said:


> Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I have the essence stx, windows 7, and using winamp. should i be worried about incorporating asio with my winamp/foobar?


 
  If you're using Winamp, dont bother with asio, since it wont work propertly. What you want with Winamp is a Kernel Streaming plug in (google it, download it) , which is basically the same thing.
  If you use Foobar, then go for ASIO.   I have both, but i cant notice absolutely any difference between the 2 players even when doing blindfolded A-B tests, with any type of music (from mp3 to 96khz flac).


----------



## Angelbelow

cool, thanks for the reply. I went ahead and downloaded kernel streaming. not sure if its a placebo but it the sound feels a little richer.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





angelbelow said:


> cool, thanks for the reply. I went ahead and downloaded kernel streaming. not sure if its a placebo but it the sound feels a little richer.


 

 Well, it depends a lot on your music. If you're listening to 44khz flac then you wont notice much difference, try downloading some REALLY high quality music, like Miles Davis Kind of blue 96 khz album, where one track is 200mb in size. Then you will notice the difference


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





angelbelow said:


> cool, thanks for the reply. I went ahead and downloaded kernel streaming. not sure if its a placebo but it the sound feels a little richer.


 


  ASIO works fine with Win 7...as does WASAPI......


----------



## Spike8585

Sorry if this is out of place, but I didn't know where to ask.
   
  Do you think it would be possible to run this card externally? 
  As in, independant of the computers PCI slot?
   
  I only use the 2 channel analog outputs, but would like to free up my single pci-e port (mini-ITX motherboard only has one port).\


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





spike8585 said:


> Sorry if this is out of place, but I didn't know where to ask.
> 
> Do you think it would be possible to run this card externally?
> As in, independant of the computers PCI slot?
> ...


 
   
   
  Nope, of course not. You need some input into the card.   
  It cant work without the PCI slot and additional power connection.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Nope, of course not. You need some input into the card.
> It cant work without the PCI slot and additional power connection.


 
  Surely you could use an extension lead to the PCI slot?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





walsh said:


> Surely you could use an extension lead to the PCI slot?


 


  Not really sure if such a thing exists. But even if it did, that would mean that the card is plugged outside of the PC, and then into the
  internal PCI slot by some cable?


----------



## genclaymore

same Asio plugin works without issues for me in winamp,Kernel Steaming usually give me issues in winamp when it some times make my sounds speed up and sound like chimpmucks. As for Op-amps I been using 2x OPA2107APs in my I/v for a while now. I using Uni Xonar 1793 drivers but I notice the volume being boosted too.


----------



## fallingreason

I have a quick question.
   
  Does the Essence STX make an exceptional digital source?  Or, will my motherboard coaxial out be just as good if I am using an external dac/amp?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> same Asio plugin works without issues for me in winamp,Kernel Steaming usually give me issues in winamp when it some times make my sounds speed up and sound like chimpmucks. As for Op-amps I been using 2x OPA2107APs in my I/v for a while now. I using Uni Xonar 1793 drivers but I notice the volume being boosted too.


 


  Try the new WASAPI plug in. I installed it yesterday, and i think it works better than ASIO or KS. It also doesnt slow down your winamp at all.


----------



## giedrys

ASIO is messed up with new drivers. I can't play 24/88.2 FLAC files on Foobar anymore(worked fine before) without DSP software resampling first. I know that ST does not natively support 88.2/176.4, but I much preffer that ST itself will handle resampling, not foobar's DSP.
   
  Any suggestions?


----------



## leeperry

giedrys said:


> ASIO is messed up with new drivers. [..] Any suggestions?


 

 It's always nice to see that some things never change. Asus never fails delivering the goods.


----------



## sulvaat

I have a mATX board and wanted to run crossfire video cards + my ST on the same board, problem with that is the second video card covers the only PCI slot. So, I though I could use this cable http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=RIC152CX
   which worked but any of the analogue outs had really really bad noise in it, especially if you cranked up a game. This did not happen when it was connected directly to the PCI slot. 
   
  </2cents>


----------



## TitaniumDust

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> ASIO is messed up with new drivers. I can't play 24/88.2 FLAC files on Foobar anymore(worked fine before) without DSP software resampling first. I know that ST does not natively support 88.2/176.4, but I much preffer that ST itself will handle resampling, not foobar's DSP.
> 
> Any suggestions?


 

 I'm using the Xonar Unified drivers v1.30 which includes the 1793 driver core.  Under foobar and ASIO, I'm able to play 24/88 files - it shows as 88.2kHz on my external DAC connected to the coax out.  How do you know it is resampling in software?  Did you manually set it that way, or is there a way to tell that it is resampling it behind the scenes?


----------



## TitaniumDust

After combing through this long thread, I decided to take the plunge and try opamp rolling.  I thought I'd share my experience.  I tried the OPA2137P and the LME49720NA in the I/V section as these seem to be the most popular choices.  I got major distortion with the OPA2137P so out the door they went.  The LME49720NA in the I/V proved to be a major winner in my book.  I have the card paired with a Matrix M-Stage amp and Grado SR-325is headphones.  At first, I thought I liked the stock JRC opamps better due to what I perceived as a bigger soundstage, but after spending a few days with the LME49720NA, I think what I was hearing with the stock JRCs wasn't a bigger soundstage, but the fact that it was separating the left and right channel more than normal, giving the illusion of better soundstage, or at least better imaging.  The mids and lows were also not nearly as full with the stock opamps.  The added weight in the lows was a great addition to the 325is, since IMO the bass, while very good in quality, is lacking just a bit in quantity.  With the LME49720s in place, there was also a slight reduction in the mid-to-upper midrange brightness.  This was also a welcome addition since the Grado 325is tend to be a bit bright in that area anyways.  The highs were also better defined and perhaps extended a little further, and were perhaps a little brighter than the stock opamps.  Since I'm a treblehead, this too was a nice addition, though for users who find detailed highs fatiguing, this could be a con and not a plus.  Overall, I am extremely happy with my entire setup now - I was considering getting another source, probably some kind of DAC that could do at least 24/96 over USB - but now I'm not going to bother.  Thanks to all who made this thread great.
   
  Edit: For a more aggressive sound (but not quite as bright/aggressive as stock), my current favorite setup is 2xLME49720NA (I/V) & 1xLM4562NA.  For a nice warm somewhat laid-back sound, 2xOPA2107AP (I/V) & 1xLME49720NA.


----------



## Funky-kun

I tested and I have no problem playing 88.2 khz audio with foobar using ASIO and the new drivers.
   
  Test track for reference: http://www.mastersfromtheirday.com/episode-2-annie-and-the-beekeepers-pie-studios/


----------



## giedrys

Well that is just super strange then. This is what I get, be it new "native" ST drivers or Xonar 1.30 unified(I've tried both):
   
  "Unrecoverable playback error: The ASIO device does not support specified sample rate (88200Hz); please configure resampler appropriately"
   
   
   
  The only way to play these files is to go to DSP manager, enable resampler and set it to 96khz.


----------



## TitaniumDust

Hmmm, bad news then.  I'd say that, assuming you've updated to the latest version of foobar (there have been several releases recently) and you've recreated the ASIO settings in foobar ASIO virtual devices just to be safe, then it sounds like it may be a ST vs STX problem.  I'd bring it up with ASUS themselves.


----------



## fzman

anyone know what the optimal volume settings are for the 3rd party uni driver for the stx?  I seem to recall that they should not be set all the way up to keep distortion low-- 78% rings a bell -- does this sound familiar to anyone?
   
  I just loaded it and am giving it a whirl.  may even try it with cmp/cplay, which would not work with the stx as it lacked a 32 bit asio driver....
   
  thanks for reading this,
   
  Mark


----------



## genclaymore

Try installing the ASio 1.0 patch, to stop from having driver signature problem the pops up from using it, just run the install again but select to install the Asio 1.0 patch.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





fzman said:


> anyone know what the optimal volume settings are for the 3rd party uni driver for the stx?  I seem to recall that they should not be set all the way up to keep distortion low-- 78% rings a bell -- does this sound familiar to anyone?
> 
> I just loaded it and am giving it a whirl.  may even try it with cmp/cplay, which would not work with the stx as it lacked a 32 bit asio driver....
> 
> ...


 
   
  76%


----------



## dex85

until now i wasn't able to listen to 88.2 kHz music without distortion or resampling. i tried both official and uni drivers. today i downloaded uni drivers 1.30 tet build 5 (24.02.2011) and i can at last listen to 88.2 kHz songs free of annoying distortion. finally drivers this card deserves. i'm using Win7 and foobar with ASIO.


----------



## fzman

thanks!  i guessed 76% from dim memory....  
  Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> 76%


----------



## Tavez

I am considering trying the Burr Brown OPA 627 in the I /V slots with these handy guys ( http://www.audiophileproducts.com/opamps   see OPA 627 Superchip), essentially 2 SOICS premounted on a DIP-8 adaptor. I've figured these seem like the right opamp from me because their darker, rich sound would balance out my bright Grado 325is, which with the stock opamps i find too bright and fatiguing. I've countlessly read up on many of the other opamps, but their characteristics don't seem to line up with what i'm looking for which is a visceral, natural and warm sound as opposed to distant, bright, larger soundstage etc.
   
  My question is, has anyone tried the 627s in the Xonar essence STX? If so, observations? I understand the 637 would be a bad choice because of the higher gain it requires, but from what I can tell the 627 should work just fine.
  Second, is there any significant benefit to using the line-out for my grados and playing around with the buffer op-amp? I realize that I could endlessly toy around with different combinations in the buffer and the I/V but I honestly don't have the time. My big goal here is simply to move away from the bright fatiguing sound to something warm and punchy, without losing too much detail of course and it seems to me that the 627 is the best choice given its reputation and description.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





tavez said:


> I am considering trying the Burr Brown OPA 627 in the I /V slots with these handy guys ( http://www.audiophileproducts.com/opamps   see OPA 627 Superchip), essentially 2 SOICS premounted on a DIP-8 adaptor. I've figured these seem like the right opamp from me because their darker, rich sound would balance out my bright Grado 325is, which with the stock opamps i find too bright and fatiguing. I've countlessly read up on many of the other opamps, but their characteristics don't seem to line up with what i'm looking for which is a visceral, natural and warm sound as opposed to distant, bright, larger soundstage etc.
> 
> My question is, has anyone tried the 627s in the Xonar essence STX? If so, observations? I understand the 637 would be a bad choice because of the higher gain it requires, but from what I can tell the 627 should work just fine.
> Second, is there any significant benefit to using the line-out for my grados and playing around with the buffer op-amp? I realize that I could endlessly toy around with different combinations in the buffer and the I/V but I honestly don't have the time. My big goal here is simply to move away from the bright fatiguing sound to something warm and punchy, without losing too much detail of course and it seems to me that the 627 is the best choice given its reputation and description.


 

 If that's your goal you won't regret moving to discretes. No IC op-amps are as warm in my opinion.


----------



## Kurashima

I just ordered an STX from a local company. My Darkvoice amp kind of died, and my Emu 0404 USB is getting on and emits an annoying high-pitched sound, so I figured it's time for something new. I do have one question though (forgive me if it's a stupid one):
   
  Because the amped head-phone out is at the back, it's kind of inconvenient if you're planning on using multiple headphones, and so I was thinking about buying a 1/4" TRS male to female cable to use as an extension for it. My question is, is this fine to use for an amped signal, or would there be any degradation / loss of power along the way? Basically, would it sound just as good as plugging the headphones straight into the output at the back? Planning on going with a Blue Jeans MSA-1 cable if it is indeed acceptable.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





kurashima said:


> I just ordered an STX from a local company. My Darkvoice amp kind of died, and my Emu 0404 USB is getting on and emits an annoying high-pitched sound, so I figured it's time for something new. I do have one question though (forgive me if it's a stupid one):
> 
> Because the amped head-phone out is at the back, it's kind of inconvenient if you're planning on using multiple headphones, and so I was thinking about buying a 1/4" TRS male to female cable to use as an extension for it. My question is, is this fine to use for an amped signal, or would there be any degradation / loss of power along the way? Basically, would it sound just as good as plugging the headphones straight into the output at the back? Planning on going with a Blue Jeans MSA-1 cable if it is indeed acceptable.


 
  Yes, the extension should be fine.  You would get into trouble with really long runs or really poor quality cables.


----------



## Angelbelow

Hey guys, so a few posts back I was recommended kernnel streaming for winamp and I went ahead and installed the plugin but its buggy to an annoying extent. I wasnt sure it was making a difference since I only had Flac 16/44khz files. However, recently I was able to get some 24bit/96khz FLAC files but I am unsure what the best set up is, I went ahead and configured the kernel streaming for my winamp but there is a small amount of static and it seems to change the sound of my FLAC 16/44khz files to a more muddy but live sounding output. I was wondering what the best set up for playing 24/96FLAC files are.
   
  Also, I downloaded the newest driver for our sound card, but I dont really see the ASIO plugin available for winamp or where to locate the plugin file.
   
  I have Asus stx essence, winamp pro 5.601, onkyo HTS5300 receiver.


----------



## Kurashima

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, the extension should be fine.  You would get into trouble with really long runs or really poor quality cables.


 

 Thanks, I'll go ahead and order a cable then!


----------



## Kurashima

Got my card in and installed after many grueling, nightmarish hours (see my installation problem and solution here). First impressions, though I'm somewhat tired after my ordeal, are wow! This thing sure has a lot of power amp-wise. Paired with my HD650s, everything sounds very full, powerful, and rich. Without going into too much detail, sound is very good, clear and detailed (though nothing will still compare with the balanced set-up I tried for a while clarity-wise). All the same, I knew the sound would be good, and thought it would have enough power to properly amp the 650s, but I am really amazed at how well it does, based on my first impressions anyway. The sound of the Emu 0404 USB's that I used before, while I knew didn't have a good enough amp, is absolutely crushed, chewed up, and spit out by what this outputs. Though I had some really stressful hours after Windows wouldn't recognize my card at all, pretty happy now! Nice to know too that if I want to play around with the sound in the future, it's possible to do so.


----------



## Meh

Hey all, I recently bought this card and it's great so far, but I do have a few questions.  First off, what's so special about the UNi drivers I keep hearing about?  The stock drivers from ASUS seem pretty good to me.  Also, does anyone else hear weird noises in the background under normal OS use?  I'm on Windows 7 x64.  It kind of sounds like a weird humming noise or something.  Every time I do ANYTHING within my OS.  Even when I move my mouse around the screen I hear a sound within Windows.  It's fairly annoying.  There's also the fact that when I start up any movie there's a weird sound that plays before the movie's audio starts up.  It kind of sounds like a film reel.  Am I the only one having these issues?  Lastly, does anyone have a list of op-amps that I could browse through that would give me a description of what each do?  I'm using Sennheiser HD555's and Shure SRH-840's, though I'll probably getting a different more powerful set in the future and one thing I would like is a little more bass, but I'd also like to see what else is out there to help improve my sound.  Thanks a bunch!


----------



## audionewbieyao

If it ain't break, don't fix it. The official drivers are fine, don't bother try other stuff unless you feel necessary.
   
  Is your system grounded properly? the humming noise sounds like your system has bad power grounding issue, but you should change a better power and try again.
   
  As to the bass, have you tried the EQ settings in the Xonar audio center? it's really the easiest way... 
   
  Good luck...


----------



## drez

Opamp rolling can address the lack of bass, as well as other aspects of audio presentation to suite your preference.  Only thing to be wary of is opamps on adapters - I think thats how I just killed my STX.  Ordering an ST to replace it.
   
  Btw if anyone could post pics of their discrete opamp installation, no matter how crude, I would appreciate it greatly 
   
  Good luck sorting out your noise issue.
   
  On a smooth topic shift I'm working on my silent pc build.  Should have a definite influence on the noise floor   Will post about it elsewhere.


----------



## bunit

How do the cheaper discreet amp solutions (<$100) compare to the ST/STX's built in headphone amp?  Are they worth the premium?


----------



## gg5004

I own the Xonar Essence ST and recently picked up the Little Dot MK III to give my phones a bit more power. What is the best way to connect the xonar ST (for the DAC) to the Little Dot?


----------



## genclaymore

Connect the Xonar ST to the little Dot Mk 3 thru RCA, if you do it thru the hp amp out. you will be double amping.

Drez. ouch, The Notch on the op-amp and adapter should face the same direction as the notches on the op-amp socket.


----------



## drez

yeah it cam pretty close to killing my headphones also actually as it was putting DC through the left headphone channel - it killed my old sony ex90's I used to test it...


----------



## genclaymore

If that was to happen to me, I be outta luck audio wise for a very long time.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





drez said:


> Opamp rolling can address the lack of bass, as well as other aspects of audio presentation to suite your preference.  Only thing to be wary of is opamps on adapters - I think thats how I just killed my STX.  Ordering an ST to replace it.
> 
> Btw if anyone could post pics of their discrete opamp installation, no matter how crude, I would appreciate it greatly
> 
> ...


 

 How did you kill it by using adapters? I'm a bit worried about my soldering job, my STX has started sounding a bit strange.


----------



## genclaymore

Most likey he put it in backwards not facing the notch, or the adaptors on the pcb was not faced the right way on the adapter.


----------



## drez

I wonder...  I'd better have another look at those adapters again.  If the company that did them stuffed up I'll give them an earful...
   
  EDIT: holy *&^% one of the ad797 soic is on the wrong way!!!  Good for nothing company.
   
  BTW I bought from analoguemetric.com   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  they could have killed my RS1 as well!


----------



## raiser roofer

Hey all,
   
  I recently bought a pair of headphones, and find the stock opamps rather fatiguing with the extremely forward mids and trebles, despite amazing detail, and would prefer a more full-bodied, well-rounded sound.
   
  I'm considering 2xLME49720NAs, as I also don't want to soldier anything and the like for fear of messing something up, and that I'm in a college dorm.
   
  Would anyone mind chipping their two cents? Thanks!


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





drez said:


> I wonder...  I'd better have another look at those adapters again.  If the company that did them stuffed up I'll give them an earful...
> 
> EDIT: holy *&^% one of the ad797 soic is on the wrong way!!!  Good for nothing company.
> 
> ...


 
  Well yeah you could definitely kill your STX if they're on the wrong way.


----------



## genclaymore

I would compain to the company and try to get them to pay for your new card and your heapdhones since they was the ones who did the soliding wrong.


----------



## raiser roofer

I can't seem to be able to set the volume at all when set to ASIO mode. It's locked at max. Has anyone found a way around this?


----------



## TitaniumDust

Quote: 





raiser roofer said:


> I can't seem to be able to set the volume at all when set to ASIO mode. It's locked at max. Has anyone found a way around this?


 


  ASIO mode bypasses the windows mixer completely.  Upside: better sound.  Downside: no volume control or mute functions.  You will need to control the volume using your amp/dac/whatever, or using the volume slider in your media player.


----------



## genclaymore

The only way to beable to control your volume in asio mode is to use Uni xonar driver's ASIO 1.0.patch.


----------



## Alexi384

Because the STX uses an Opamp in a Buffer position on the RCA Line-Out, am I right in thinking that the soundcard would work well using a simple Passive Preamp + Power amp combination?


----------



## drez

Just received OPA2111.  Nice warm, dynamic and musical sound, but bass could be tighter, even though it is present enough (or a little boosted - I have no reference apart fro other OPamps).  Details are really good - I perceive them as ahead of both OPA2107 and LT1057CN8, but the OPA2107 is closer than the LT1057.
   
  OPA2107 by comparison is brighter, has tighter bass, much more forward treble which makes mids slightly recessed, and as far as I have heard, grainy treble. OPA2107 sounds faster if not any more dynamic, and seems to lose a little on musicality due to the lesser warmth conveying less tonal information.  Personally I find the OPA2107 dynamics a little exaggerated when paired with say my Grado RS1i - it tends to dramatise everything when a more smooth presentation would be more suitable.
   
  LT1057CN had sweeter treble than either of the above two and a more dynamically constrained presentation - less bass, less soundstage and lesser dynamics create a flatter overall presentation.  Bass is tighter than OPA2111 and I generally found these to have good speed.
   
  Overall I find the OPA2111 to be the best compromise - its less bright than the 2107, warmer, and has less harsh and forward treble, with the expense being some perceived speed is lost.  If only I could have the tight 2107 bass with the otherwise superior midrange and treble of the 2111.  Maybe discrete can provide this - but at this stage it is getting silly to invest in my ST as I am getting amp/dac soon...


----------



## chinesekiwi

for those using OPA 637's on the STX, how tight is the fit? Can 4 x OPA 637's on 2 adapters actually fit? Anyone tried it?


----------



## drez

I've used adapters from auzentech successfully, but the ones I got from analogmetric were installed incorrectly on adapters and killed my card and a pair of earphones I used to test - nothing to do with fit though - they just made them wrong.
   
  For clearance dual soic on adapter is the best bet (http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/opamp_637au.php) - they are expensive but well made.  Not sure I would pay that price though.  But to be honest, even the tallest dual soic I have clear the heat shield just fine.  The Auzentech anecdotally do have much better clearance and build quality, but again I'm not convinced it's worth it.
   
  BTW check the minimum voltage rating for the 637 - I've read it may be too high for this application - maybe why auzentech describe it as having accent on high frequencies (vs 627 having accent on low frequencies).  Whoever you order from - make sure you check that they are installed correctly on the adapters.
   
  Heres what they should NOT LOOK LIKE
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Take a careful look at this careless quality control.  BTW I'm really liking the OPA2111 - the bass is not really all that slow, just slow-er.


----------



## leeperry

OPA637 isn't unity gain stable anyway, it's a gamble.

well, you should always triple check your adapters, even if you're not the one who soldered them :/


----------



## chinesekiwi

Well, what do you recommend for a buffer to replace the LM4562?


----------



## leeperry

I guess I'd try OPA1641/LT1363/ADA4627-1B/OPA827.


----------



## chinesekiwi

I've read good things about the LT1364 as a buffer as well? opinions? AFAIK, it is a specialised buffer opamp as well so....

Is the LT1028ACN8 single or dual channel? Can't find info on it. Anyone used it?

EDIT: DW, the LT1028's are single + non gain stable so :/


----------



## drez

Getting sick of the buggy wasapi on newer essence drivers and have been trying to use ASIO - but foobar isn't ASIO in the output even after I installed the ASIO plugin, and even though it shows under the foobar components list.  Is there something I am missing???  I am runnig 7.12.8.17731 driver which I thought included ASIO support.  I may try reinstalling ASIO plugin for foobar but its showing so wth...


----------



## gurubhai

^ You need to add the asio output device in "ASIO virtual devices" subsection of foobar.


----------



## drez

please help me navigate to this section I cant find it.  Thanks


----------



## gurubhai

Foobar -->preferences--> Output --> ASIO virtual devices
   
   
  Add a new output device here.


----------



## drez

thanks found it and got it working - only problem it doesn't fix the windows navigation digital noise pops, and the volume control is unusable


----------



## fufula

Try increaing the latency in the ASIO control panel (Foobar -->preferences--> Output --> ASIO virtual devices --> edit --> configure) and see if it helps with the pops. If you have to set it real high, check your DPC latency with this tool.

 I recently made the switch from XP to W7x64 and I've actually had better luck with WASAPI than ASIO. ASIO seems to be significantly louder than it was in XP and getting rid of pops and clicks wasn't as easy as with WASAPI. I'm using the Unified Xonar Driver.

 BTW, with ASIO set as output I can only control the volume using the player volume control; with WASAPI, I can control the volume using the Windows mixer volume control and also change the volume for L/R channels in the Xonar Audio Center? Is this normal? "Allow apps to take exclusive control of this device" is on.


----------



## chinesekiwi

latency is a non-issue up to a point with music listening. You can have too much latency but otherwise a high ASIO sample setting like 640 samples is fine for music listening. Only in recording / producing you have to worry about latency.


----------



## Angelbelow

Had some issues with getting kernel streaming to work so I stopped using it for winamp. However, I finally discovered how to access the ASIO control panel and I now have it on 24 bit but I'm not sure which latency to select or if that even matters. Having set the bit-rate to 24 I'm assuming I dont have to mess around with winamp anymore right?


----------



## F4NAT

Hi,
   
  does anybody know where to get this Dual-Adapater?
  I like the crispy sound of the *49720HA* and would like to give the *710HA* a try, but i can't find a *Dual TO99 to DIP8* one.
  Thanks for every useful hint.


----------



## FutureAudio

-Double posted- Please delete.


----------



## FutureAudio

I just tried Unified Xonar drivers and I'm WOW!
  Selected the "lowest DPC" option while installing.
  Sound is so much more natural and just flows. I have never been satisfied with Xonar STX setup till now. 
  I'm using these to power my D7000. 
   
  [ Disclaimer: Please note difference in sound quality is not really night and day but it's that extra 1% or so that makes or breaks it IMHO. ]


----------



## PointyFox

I tried the Unified driver, and all it did was add a white noise to the signal, which increased with increased volume, and increased in pitch as I added channels to the audio.


----------



## matbhuvi

Just saying Hi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I gave in based on the impressions posted here. I just ordered a refurbed STX for $116.


----------



## Kurashima

The stock op-amps with my HD650s were starting to annoy me a bit due to how forward (maybe bright?) they were, so I ordered a pair of OPA2107APs. Hopefully these will give me a bit more of a relaxed, smooth, warm sound, along with more bass (which I would greatly appreciate!) Since I'm a total newb at this, could someone check this auction that I bought to make sure I got the right thing? I just know I needed to get duals, so hopefully that's right. Also, I believe that's all I need for the headphone out, correct? The other op-amp just affects the line-out?


----------



## Alexi384

TO-99 to 8-pin DIP Adapter
http://cimarrontechnology.com/to-99to8-pindipadapterpn020601-1.aspx


----------



## drez

Just the opposite Kurashima!  OPA2107AP are forward as hell and harsh in the treble IMO.  Their sole party trick is exaggerated dynamics and some serious PRAT (IMO).  They do have more bass, it is very tight and punchy bass and you might like how they liven up the music.  But overall I greatly preferred the OPA2111 at least with my Grado RS1i as it is less forward, harsh and just sounds more natural, even though the bass is not as super-tight as OPA2107AP.  OPA2111 treble is far less forward and not harsh at all, and dynamics and PRAT are good is not at same level as 2107 - but 2111 is still way better than any other IC opamp I have tried.


----------



## Kurashima

Quote: 





drez said:


> Just the opposite Kurashima!  OPA2107AP are forward as hell and harsh in the treble IMO.  Their sole party trick is exaggerated dynamics and some serious PRAT (IMO).  They do have more bass, it is very tight and punchy bass and you might like how they liven up the music.  But overall I greatly preferred the OPA2111 at least with my Grado RS1i as it is less forward, harsh and just sounds more natural, even though the bass is not as super-tight as OPA2107AP.  OPA2111 treble is far less forward and not harsh at all, and dynamics and PRAT are good is not at same level as 2107 - but 2111 is still way better than any other IC opamp I have tried.


 
  Thanks for the advice! I ended up also ordering a pair of OPA2111KP and 2137P op-amps. They're all cheap enough that it's worth having them to play around with and see which ones I end up liking most.


----------



## drez

No worries enjoy opamp rolling the stx - it gave me less trouble than the essence st I'm using now maybe because pcie bus is less noisy than pci bus?  This popping noise when using wasapi and terminal glitching when using ASIO is really annoying me.  Are there any decent version 6 drivers?  I wish I still had my STX... no problems there...


----------



## audiofreak81

If you want to find op-amps of any kind try this website.
   
   
http://www.newark.com/national-semiconductor/lme49860na-nopb/ic-audio-amplifier-class-ab-dip/dp/53M0338?in_merch=Popular%20Products&in_merch=Popular%20Products&MER=PPSO_N_C_EverywhereElse_None


----------



## Browx

Hi.
   
  Is it possible to try somehow a Psyko 5.1 headphone with my Xonar STX?
  ( http://www.psykoaudio.com/index.php/Carbon.html )
  Can I use 5.1 headphones with STX or I have to sell it and have to buy another sound card?
  (I really don't want to do this!)


----------



## drez

short answer no.  you can with ST with additional add-on board (the H6) but not with STX.  Guess you could buy an essence ST plus the H6 of you don't want to go backwards in sound quality.  You could also try dolby virtual headphone or a similar surround sound emulator.  Either way I'm guessing the gaming headset sound quality wont be up to good 2 channel headphones musically speaking anyway so the ST+H6 will probably be wasted if you're using the headset exclusively.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





browx said:


> Hi.
> 
> Is it possible to try somehow a Psyko 5.1 headphone with my Xonar STX?
> ( http://www.psykoaudio.com/index.php/Carbon.html )
> ...


 
   
  5.1 headsets are always trash really. You are better off buying a stereo (normal) headphone and then using Dolby Headphone.


----------



## scutzi128

Hey I will be using the headphone out port on my stx to my external headroom micro amp and I was wondering what I should set the impedance setting to? Does it really matter?


----------



## spork42

[size=medium]I would think that you would be better served by using the line outs when using an external amplifier.
   
  Otherwise you are chaining headphone amps, which can't be a good thing.
   
  You would also gain some flexibility in tweaking the sound by changing the opamp at the buffer stage, too.​[/size]


  Quote: 





scutzi128 said:


> Hey I will be using the headphone out port on my stx to my external headroom micro amp and I was wondering what I should set the impedance setting to? Does it really matter?


----------



## bluelans

nice tips , thanks it help me a lot


----------



## scutzi128

Quote: 





spork42 said:


> I would think that you would be better served by using the line outs when using an external amplifier.
> 
> Otherwise you are chaining headphone amps, which can't be a good thing.
> 
> You would also gain some flexibility in tweaking the sound by changing the opamp at the buffer stage, too.​


 


 That's what I was originally planning on doing but I am already using the line outs for a pair of speakers. I also would like to use the dolby headhone feature with games and that is not available via line out as far as I know.


----------



## spork42

The Headroom Micro has its own line out, so you would have that option if connecting the Xonar's line out to the Micro.
   
  I did not know about the Dolby Headphone issue when using line out, however.  I am assuming you are using the ATH-AD700s for gaming with Dolby Headphone?  Why not use the Xonar's headphone amplifier when gaming, and use the Xonar's line out for Xonar >> Micro >> Micro LO >> Speakers for music and everything else?
   
  As far as I know, no headphone amplifier is designed to be chained, but many or even most will not suffer damage (at least in the short term) when chained.  That said, damage is still always a possibility when using an amplifier in this way, which is why I generally shy away from it.  Also, keep in mind that while the synergy of the two amps may work out, no combination is guaranteed to help sound quality either, until tested.  You may very well find that the Xonar's amplifier alone sounds better than using the Micro after it in the chain, even if the Micro is the better amp.
   
  As such, I suppose you can try it out, but I would do so by setting the Xonar to a fairly low volume at first to see if distortion is present.  I would also set the gain on the Micro to low since the input will already have a far higher gain than a line level source.


----------



## matbhuvi

ohh dolby headphone not available via line out?..that's a bummer. I planned to use with an amp..looks like i need to use amp only for music and not for gaming..


----------



## germanium

Quote:


spork42 said:


> The Headroom Micro has its own line out, so you would have that option if connecting the Xonar's line out to the Micro.
> 
> I did not know about the Dolby Headphone issue when using line out, however.  I am assuming you are using the ATH-AD700s for gaming with Dolby Headphone?  Why not use the Xonar's headphone amplifier when gaming, and use the Xonar's line out for Xonar >> Micro >> Micro LO >> Speakers for music and everything else?
> 
> ...


 


 One problem with using the headphone amp to drive anouther amp is that the headphone amp on the Essense ST/STX is that the headphone amp has a fair amount of D.C. offset, This can be a major problem if you hook it up to a high gain D.C. coupled amp (more than 4X gain) as the D.C. will be amplified in this scenerio to potentially damaging levels. Do not use the front panel speaker out in this fashion eiter as it uses the headphone amp as well. Use only the RCA jacks at the rear to drive anouther amp if you do not know what protections the following amp has to protect against D.C. offset.
   
  You will notice in my profile almost all my amps are modded to be  D.C. coupled including the line out of the Essense STX card (exception being the SACD player). Due to the very low D.C. offset of the line out amp on the sound card & low output impedance D.C. coupling the line out can actually reduce the D.C. offset at the output of any amp the follows it incuding D.C. coupled ones as many have at least some D.C. offset coming out its input jack which by D.C. coupling the line out of the card the line out will sink most of the D.C. offset coming out the input of the following amp bringing the D.C. offset down to its level.


----------



## raiser roofer

Help! I seem to have done something severe to my card, and it won't install!
   
  I had video card issues in my computer, so I took the entire computer apart, cleaned it out, and reassembled it, with the only major difference being moving the STX to a PCI-1x from a PCI-16x slot. It seemed easy enough, but when I moved it, I wasn't getting any sound. So I figured it was a driver problem when I moved the card, and uninstalled the driver and used Driver Sweeper on it. I attempted to reinstall the driver, but received the error message "Please plug-in your Asus Xonar Audio device!". I turned off the computer, took the thing out, put it back in (the same slot but REALLY making sure that 4-pin was fastened in the back, as well as the front panel audio to the side of the card), and received the same error.
   
  As a last resort, I took the card out again, put it back in the PCI-16x slot, and - again - I get a notice to "Please plug-in your Asus Xonar Audio Device". I have tried two different ASUS drivers and the latest Uni driver with no luck.
   
  Here's some specifics:
  -Device manager reads the card, and properly ("PCI\VEN_13F6&DEV_8788&SUBSYS_835C1043&REV_00").
  -When I restart the computer, or hit the uninstall driver button through device manager, I hear a click coming from the card. From what I experienced in the past, this is normal.
  -Device Manager actually reads the card as "ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio Device" under "Sound, video and game controllers" (as opposed to "Multimedia Device", which I'm told is supposed to be the normal reading for the uninstalled driver)
   
  Please help! I'm really not sure how in the world I could have bricked the card by swapping PCI slots and/or taking it out and putting it back in.


----------



## germanium

Oops double post sorry.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





raiser roofer said:


> Help! I seem to have done something severe to my card, and it won't install!
> 
> I had video card issues in my computer, so I took the entire computer apart, cleaned it out, and reassembled it, with the only major difference being moving the STX to a PCI-1x from a PCI-16x slot. It seemed easy enough, but when I moved it, I wasn't getting any sound. So I figured it was a driver problem when I moved the card, and uninstalled the driver and used Driver Sweeper on it. I attempted to reinstall the driver, but received the error message "Please plug-in your Asus Xonar Audio device!". I turned off the computer, took the thing out, put it back in (the same slot but REALLY making sure that 4-pin was fastened in the back, as well as the front panel audio to the side of the card), and received the same error.
> 
> ...


 


  
   
   You may have a bad connection in the wire or the connector on the soundcard may need to be resoldered as this connector does require some force to plug & unplug which may result in broken solder connections on the sound card(4pin molex connector).


----------



## raiser roofer

The 4-pin molex is definitely fastened and secure. As I mentioned in my previous post, the card was previously just working fine earlier today, then I moved it, and now it's not, and still isn't even after moving it back.
   
  Could this be relevant: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Xonar_EEPROM_Failure , even though I don't get the "F6" at the end of my hardware ID? I DO get a "&REV_00" at the end.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





raiser roofer said:


> The 4-pin molex is definitely fastened and secure. As I mentioned in my previous post, the card was previously just working fine earlier today, then I moved it, and now it's not, and still isn't even after moving it back.
> 
> Could this be relevant: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Xonar_EEPROM_Failure , even though I don't get the "F6" at the end of my hardware ID? I DO get a "&REV_00" at the end.


 


 I reread your post more completely & was in the proccess in fixing my post when you reposted. Sorry about that. But hopefully this information helps. Hopefully you know how to test for bad solder joints & can resolder if nessessary.
   
  I don't think the other issue you brought up is the case as the card is recognised as what it is. The reason it is still recognized as the Essense STX is that you may have more than one driver installed for it & you only removed on of them. Not a big deal.
   
  Try checking you molex connector solder joints as this is where your likely issue is since you do have it plugged in but the driver sayes not.


----------



## fufula

raiser roofer said:


> -Device Manager actually reads the card as "ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio Device" under "Sound, video and game controllers" (as opposed to "Multimedia Device", which I'm told is supposed to be the normal reading for the uninstalled driver)




It's under Sound, video and game controllers on my PC as well (w7,wxp), so this is actually normal.


----------



## raiser roofer

Quote: 





fufula said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry, I meant to say that the device itself is supposed to be listed as "Multimedia Device" under "Sound, video and game controllers", and not as its name when the driver is uninstalled.


----------



## scutzi128

Thanks I'll try just using the stx headphone amp for games and the line out for the stx to drive the amp and speakers. Never really thought about that. Do you think it will be fine if I make a a splitter to split the rca line outs so I have 2 pairs of rca outputs (one for the speakers and one for the micro amp)?
  Quote: 





spork42 said:


> The Headroom Micro has its own line out, so you would have that option if connecting the Xonar's line out to the Micro.
> 
> I did not know about the Dolby Headphone issue when using line out, however.  I am assuming you are using the ATH-AD700s for gaming with Dolby Headphone?  Why not use the Xonar's headphone amplifier when gaming, and use the Xonar's line out for Xonar >> Micro >> Micro LO >> Speakers for music and everything else?
> 
> ...


----------



## spork42

If you would rather not use the volume control on the Micro for your speakers, a splitter at the line out of the STX should be OK, assuming that the line out's signal is strong enough to drive multiple devices.  (My guess is that it is.)
  
  Quote: 





scutzi128 said:


> Thanks I'll try just using the stx headphone amp for games and the line out for the stx to drive the amp and speakers. Never really thought about that. Do you think it will be fine if I make a a splitter to split the rca line outs so I have 2 pairs of rca outputs (one for the speakers and one for the micro amp)?


----------



## raiser roofer

I've closely looked at this card from all angles, particularly the Molex connector, and I cannot see any physical problems with it. The Molex cord that it connects to seems a tad bit wrestled with, but appears to be functional, as the cord itself splits power to one of my fans, which is fully operational.
   
  I really can't figure out what the problem is here, and I have to conclude that either swapping PCI slots completely fried something within the card, or caused a software issue. I'm going to attempt the EEPROM fix to see if it does anything (no harm done, right?).
   
  :edit: WOW, so it turned it I actually *wasn't* pushing the molex in hard enough. Damn, you really gotta give that thing some force.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





raiser roofer said:


> I've closely looked at this card from all angles, particularly the Molex connector, and I cannot see any physical problems with it. The Molex cord that it connects to seems a tad bit wrestled with, but appears to be functional, as the cord itself splits power to one of my fans, which is fully operational.
> 
> I really can't figure out what the problem is here, and I have to conclude that either swapping PCI slots completely fried something within the card, or caused a software issue. I'm going to attempt the EEPROM fix to see if it does anything (no harm done, right?).
> 
> :edit: WOW, so it turned it I actually *wasn't* pushing the molex in hard enough. Damn, you really gotta give that thing some force.


 
  Glad it's working for you now. Yaaaay


----------



## drez

if you DO want to fry your card, you could always try installing some badly fabricated opamps on adapters. Like those I ordered from analoguemetrc.


----------



## CrazyKoala

Hello.
I'm using a STX but I',m facing some issues concerning the sound signature.

For the record I am using only the headphone output, so only the OPA for the IV are concerned.

Of course I found the chips (JRC 2114) provided with the card gave a too bright sound.

So I 've changed for 2 LME49720. Sound is better, more balanced imo, less "brigtness" and more bass. But I think it's still a bit too much focused on high frequencies and therefore my ears hurt a bit.

I have on my desks two other pairs of chips :

- OPA 2107
- OPA 2111

Do you think one those pairs would be better to get a more balanced sound ?


I am using IE8 and HD555 and Turbiner Copper.


----------



## scutzi128

Ok so since I am a student at a technical college I can get some samples of some opamps from national semiconductors. What would you guys reccomend for a more full and less bright sound since I will be using the headphone amp with a pair of ad700s which are a little light on bass.


----------



## Tavez

I took the plunge and bought some OPA627's, sound is definitely more laid back, gone is the annoying sibiliance from my grados and the mid-lower range has more emphasis and warmth. If you're like me and can't solder to save your life, you can get 2 soics mounted on a DIP8 adaptor from audiophileproducts.com. Quality control and the soldering job is top notch. Now I wonder how much these puppies are going to change with some burn-in


----------



## drez

IMO OPA2111 is more natural and less fatiguing than the OPA2107 especially in the treble.  Its a little warmer also.


----------



## jalyst

This thread's still going? EPIC!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Does anyone know if Asus is releasing a successor to the ST/STX soon?
 The range has been out for at least 2yrs now....
   
  I'd *love* to see something like the Essence ST + H6 actually integrated into a motherboard.
  It would be so damn *HOT* for a HTPC build.


----------



## serious7

Quote: 





jalyst said:


> This thread's still going? EPIC!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Development in the sound department is not as active as the graphics/processing departments....there is no need to upgrade on the STX/ST when it is perfect for what it does +/- the software issues and the few small quirks. The product does its' job.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





serious7 said:


> Development in the sound department is not as active as the graphics/processing departments....


 
  I realise, which is why I'm asking over 2yrs (at least) since original release.
  GPU's (truly) innovate in a yearly basis, CPU's closer to 2yrs...
  SPU/DAC/AMP needn't be much more than approx. two years, there's plenty of room for further refinement.
   
   
  Quote: 





> there is no need to upgrade on the STX/ST when it is perfect for what it does +/- the software issues and the few small quirks.
> The product does its' job.


 
   
  Well unfortunately I don't have quite the same opinion...
  I'm very happy with my card, and even the software is mostly fine.
  But that doesn't mean I want it to remain a "snapshot in time".


----------



## Roller

Lol, this sounds so much like people who change computers on a half year basis 
   
  If there isn't a possible significant sound quality increase, then the obvious thing to increase is price.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





roller said:


> Lol, this sounds so much like people who change computers on a half year basis
> 
> If there isn't a possible significant sound quality increase, then the obvious thing to increase is price.


 


  Massively premature value judgement right there...
 How can you proclaim there won't be a SQ improvement when there's no successor to compare w/the ST yet?
 I'll reserve judgement as-to-whether there's a improvement, when there's actually a successor that can be compared to the ST.

 And to answer my original question there will in-fact be a successor soon, the Essence One.
 It's not really what I was hoping for being external, & is really a different genre of soundcard.
  So perhaps not, in all fairness, directly comparable, unless one is prepared to consider a entirely different form-factor.
   
  If it's a big enough improvement overall I'd probably get it, but I'd definitely devise some way to mount it into my case


----------



## Roller

Think what you will. Read all the judgements you see fit.
   
  Like it was already said before, there is nowhere near an evolution of audio hardware when compared to graphics department. So if patiently waiting for some new version of a specific audio hardware device isn't for you, then perhaps you should just get external devices, pro audio interfaces, whatever ticks you.
   
  From the moment you consider things like snapshots in time, it's the moment where you find yourself not appreciating what you already have, despite what you might say. So my advice is, listen to music, then some more, watch some movies, play some games, and enjoy instead of listening to the little upgraditis bug, it will catch up to you as it is already in your system.
   
  Relax.


----------



## jalyst

roller said:


> Like it was already said before, there is nowhere near an evolution of audio hardware when compared to graphics department.


   
  I already know that, which is why I asked the question well over 2yrs after the original silicon.
  And it turns out I was "right on the money", a improvement (YTBC) is being released, albeit external.

   


> So if patiently waiting for some new version of a specific audio hardware device isn't for you, then perhaps you should just get external devices, pro audio interfaces, whatever ticks you.


 
  LOL, how am I being impatient?
  What, posting such a question automatically makes me impatient?
  I don't follow...
   


> From the moment you consider things like snapshots in time, it's the moment where you find yourself not appreciating what you already have, despite what you might say. So my advice is, listen to music, then some more, watch some movies, play some games, and enjoy instead of listening to the little upgraditis bug, it will catch up to you as it is already in your system.


 
  Well the "snapshot in time" statement was directed at assertions that I'm expecting too much too soon.
  When, given the impending release of the Essence One, it turns out I may not be.
  Actually I really am enjoying my current set-up, I'll post a link to my build log soon if anyone cares, promises to be EPIC


----------



## Roller

I would ask how old you are, but that would actually sound like a judgement. There's plenty of audio hardware to make you bankrupt, so I don't really see why the *very notorious* impatience of yours.
   
  Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any direct evolution of Essence STX, and the impending release of Essence One is an external solution, so it's not the same.
   
  Basically, this is why I feel that people with computer backgrounds sometimes take some time to adjust to the whole audio world, just like I'm learning every day new things.
   
  Anyway, this is pointless, you wait (or not) all you want for a new product. It will come for those who wait.
   
  Good. It's always nice to see nice gear.
   
  Have a nice day.


----------



## jalyst

roller said:


> I would ask how old you are, but that would actually sound like a judgement.


  LOL, why stop judging now, that's pretty much all you've done since your 1st response  _N.B. my 1st personal attack_
   


> There's plenty of audio hardware to make you bankrupt, so I don't really see why the *very notorious* impatience of yours.


 
  Exhibit A
  How is this even relevant to the discussion at hand?
  Why are you even starting a discussion with the belief that you know a strangers personality?
  How is that even productive?



> Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any direct evolution of Essence STX, and the impending release of Essence One is an external solution, so it's not the same.


 
  Not the same genre correct, but definitely comparable if one is happy to make the form-factor switch.
  Not worthwhile for someone who already owns a ST, *unless* the improvements are significant, & they're happy to deal with the form-factor or mod it into their case.
    


> Basically, this is why I feel that people with computer backgrounds sometimes take some time to adjust to the whole audio world, just like I'm learning every day new things.


 
  Oh really, so I'm an audio n00b with only a computer background am I?
   



> Anyway, this is pointless, you wait (or not) all you want for a new product. It will come for those who wait.


  You're damn right it's pointless, with your preformed opinions about me trumping friendly input, it's never going to be productive.


----------



## Theresa

I am appreciative that there aren't constant "upgrades" in the STX.  It is an excellent product already and upgraditis is avoided by being on the market a long time.  Audio and computers are plagued by constant "upgrades" that are just planned obsolescense.  What exactly would you want (other than much better drivers)?


----------



## chinesekiwi

If Asus starts using ESS Sabre DACs......upgrade time!


----------



## ccschua

I would love to have one provided they do justice to the price.


----------



## ccschua

I would love to have one provided they do justice to the price.


----------



## jalyst

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> If Asus starts using ESS Sabre DACs......upgrade time!


 


  Improved DAC (if there's appreciable gains) is always welcome!
  There's of course always improvements (hardware, software, or both) that can be made to such a card's DSP, DAC, or amplification.
  Nothing's ever 100% perfect, particularly as time progresses, that should be self-evident to everyone.
  I personally would like to see improvements in the amp, for both stereo & multi-ch analogue-out.
  Machined OPAMP sockets is also a nice/simple improvement off-the-top-of-my-head...
   
  Anyways I'm unsubscribing, I don't have time to be arguing unnecessarily with folks.
  I'm subscribed to too many threads already! Apologies in advance to anyone I don't respond to.
  Enjoy the ST's & STX's folks, I sure am, but I'll also watch with interest when the Essence One arrives.


----------



## ZorgDK

Hi folks, have anyone tried 2x49720HA in I/V with 1x AD797AN in buffer? Or maybe 1xOPA627?


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Hi folks, have anyone tried 2x49720HA in I/V with 1x AD797AN in buffer? Or maybe 1xOPA627?


 

 I actually just ordered 2xopa627 & 2x49720 ha for cans-will let you know how they sound.
   
   
  I do have a question regarding headphones.  I'm torn between  the akg mk240kII or sennheiser 595.If anyone has any insight regarding these cans and this card and maybe which one fares better I'd appreciate it


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> I actually just ordered 2xopa627 & 2x49720 ha for cans-will let you know how they sound.
> 
> 
> I do have a question regarding headphones.  I'm torn between  the akg mk240kII or sennheiser 595.If anyone has any insight regarding these cans and this card and maybe which one fares better I'd appreciate it


 

 Thanks.
   
  Of those two cans I've only heard HD595. It's nicely detailed, good sound stage, a little bass light. 
   
  I think the AKG 240 is semi closed like my Superlux HD681 (same design, not same driver/quality). Personally I don't like semi closed for a desktop setup.


----------



## serious7

Quote: 





jalyst said:


> Improved DAC (if there's appreciable gains) is always welcome!
> There's of course always improvements (hardware, software, or both) that can be made to such a card's DSP, DAC, or amplification.
> Nothing's ever 100% perfect, particularly as time progresses, that should be self-evident to everyone.
> I personally would like to see improvements in the amp, for both stereo & multi-ch analogue-out.
> ...


 
   
  lol...i didn't expect my post to start a fight here.  I'm here to just point out a few things.
   
  "Nothing's ever 100% perfect"
   
  -> You're dwelling in an area I'd like to call research. If you are looking for hardware improvements, then of course the only physical improvement you can get is a smaller card/lower power usage/ etc.
  Software improvements: Make sure the run time of your code don't go past theta(N)   (who  honestly cares about how well your code runs when it works?).
  Amplification: The purpose of the card is to power affordable  audiophile headphones. 
  Multi-ch: I thought the card is supposed to be a 2.1 sound card?
   
   
  You need to understand what Engineering Design means which is employed in many designs we see today. The fundamental purpose of the Engineering Design Process is to NOT exceed design criteria. It's to adequately MEET them. In other words, if a prototype gets the job done, then it's ready to get into production. Most manufacturers think this way. You will have the odd company that only cares about exceeding expectations and design criteria. However, such companies are very rare for obvious reasons (they won't generate enough revenue to survive or only tailor to non-consumer markets).  The people in this world who care about exceeding the boundaries of science are the Universities, Research Groups, etc.
   
  So what I'm trying to say is, don't expect such a leap in the sound department by any computer company out there today. If you were the head design Engineer in Asus, would you waste your time making the best possible sound card utilizing all the ground breaking patents Asus owns to design the best possible sound card ever? No, because your product will cost more than the general public can afford. Sure you'll gain respect amongst the people of these forums, but we only account for a small percentage of the computer market. Most people are satisfied with their on board sound. Such a drastic move will likely get you fired. Remember, companies care about the development costs vs returns. If it costs too much to develop something and it won't give you an adequate return on your investment, then you generally should not pursue developing the product any further. 
   
  So in short,  Asus is a company that cares about making money. Just like any other computer company that is out there today. Don't expect any significant upgrade to the ST/STX in the near future. There may be small revisions that changes a few things here or there, but I'm pretty damn sure there won't be a significant audible improvement anytime in the near future. Enjoy your Sound Card.


----------



## germanium

Just because a DAC specs better doesn't mean it is better. Burr Brown DACs are really very high quality & thier signature is more easily tunable than most other DACs. Don't go for a 32 bit DAC as they offer nothing in return for those extra 8 bits compared to 24 bit DAC's. Thier actual performance does not exceed that of high qualty 24 bit DAC's Exception being ESS Sabre seies DACs but they still don't exceed theoretical limit of 24 bits. Thier signature I believe though is not as easily tunable though as Burr Browns offerings, in other words it is a marketing ploy for which there is no advantage for the consummer. Burr brown has a 32 bit DAC (PCM1796) whos performance is not as good as thier top 24 bit DAC (PCM1792a & PCM1794).


----------



## drez

I'm not sure how much more you would want to invest in internal sound card given em interference, unstable powersupply, etc.
   
  They could try though using better dac and opamps shipped stock - the improvements are pretty unambiguous.  more power might be good also, maybe class A bias with some heatsinks...


----------



## shaw

wrong post, ignore


----------



## shaw

Quote: 





drez said:


> I'm not sure how much more you would want to invest in internal sound card given em interference, unstable powersupply, etc.
> 
> They could try though using better dac and opamps shipped stock - the improvements are pretty unambiguous.  more power might be good also, maybe class A bias with some heatsinks...


 

 I was browsing through the thread and read your comment about a popping noise from the STX. Can you explain further? I had a similar issue and managed to fix it.


----------



## shaw

wrong again, ignore, sorry


----------



## drez

popping comes only when using wasapi and clicking in windows explorer.  Doesn't seem to happen when using the card's spdif output instead of dac/amp section (asio also goes nuts when using explorer also and needs to be paused).  Would like to hear your fix anyway!


----------



## svyr

gwillys said:


> thanks, i have a plan, i think
> cant get over the gain from the clock.
> here she is in rough form. beat up, big & ugly, but sounds beautiful. i call her suzy b.




criiikey...


----------



## d8n0g

hey guys, weird question.....I'm getting a pair of cans that doesn't have inline volume control (obviously)  Is there an adapter or something that can sit on my desk where I can turn a knob to adjust the volume?  I don't want to invest too much on a separate amp and don't know if the other amp will interfere with the stx.  so basically I'm looking for a physical extension of the volume control-if that makes sense


----------



## sulvaat

You don't want to use the volume on your PC? 
   
  Found this on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Koss-155954-VC20-Volume-Control/dp/B00001P4XH/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304381669&sr=8-1


----------



## leeperry

d8n0g said:


> Is there an adapter or something that can sit on my desk where I can turn a knob to adjust the volume?


 
   
  I use this: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> I use this: http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/powermate


 


  very interesting!  I take it it works well?  Does it interfere withe the muzac as far as a staticy volume adjustment?


----------



## b0ck3n

Does anyone know the maximum output of the onboard amp? Curious about output impedance aswell.


----------



## leeperry

d8n0g said:


> very interesting!  I take it it works well?  Does it interfere withe the muzac as far as a staticy volume adjustment?


 
   
  the drivers are a bit wonky, their tech support careless...but all in all, 64bit volume attenuation sounds good...as good as it's gonna get.


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> the drivers are a bit wonky, their tech support careless...but all in all, 64bit volume attenuation sounds good...as good as it's gonna get.


 

 thax very much, can anyone recommend an external amp that'll compliment this card-I was looking at a MUSE t-amp.


----------



## SabreWulf69

Hi. New member, long time lurker. Was wondering what your guys opinions are on a combo of 2x OPA2107's in the I/V's and a LT1364 in the buffer?
   
  Averaging up a lot of peoples opinions on both of these seems to make me think that these would be an excellent combination. I have them incoming from the states (I'm located in Australia) and am just wondering if I could get a few people's observations if they have used this combination before. I am not adventurous enough to get the singles like the LT1363's nor have the budget to get something like the OPA627's. Any feedback on this combo is hugely appreciated.
   
  Thanks in advance,
  - SabreWulf69


----------



## shaw

@drez
  If you haven't done this already
  - Download DPC latency checker
  - See if your're having long latency times or even worse spikes like I had (see if it correlates with the popping)
   
  I had an issue with popping every time my graphics card throttled it clocks up or down. Basically poor driver design can hog you CPU and increase latency, and real time streams like audio/video experience drop-out, pops/clicks, jerkiness etc. See my thread here http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/551498/graphics-card-generating-clicks-and-pops#post_7439347
   
  I also had periodic spikes in latency which were caused by the ASUS AI suite motherboard monitoring software. So after disabling that and I finally finding a version of the NVidia drivers that didn't have the spikes every time my GPU throttled, my problems are over. Well almost, I still see latency going up sometimes, but Win7 is far worse in latency compared to WinXP. Changing power settings so that minium CPU state is not the default 5% also helps latency.


----------



## SabreWulf69

Don't forget to use the Unified Xonar drivers also with the 'Low DPC Latency' option checked when you install them.
   
  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3137029/UNi%20Xonar%201793%20v1.31.exe


----------



## SabreWulf69

Does anyone know if hi-fi integrated's like the Krell's, McIntosh's, Classe's or any others have decent h-amps built in?


----------



## drez

Thanks shaw.  Last time I check there were some major latency spikes but I didn't try to fix them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I have changed graphics card since then so not sure what is causing spikes...  Using the card as transport seems to avoid the problem, but I think some pops are from unstable power supply from wall, so maybe I need an UPS.


----------



## b0ck3n

Quote: 





b0ck3n said:


> Does anyone know the maximum output of the onboard amp? Curious about output impedance aswell.


 

 To answer my own question, in case anyone else is curious about this later on:
   
  Line output: 2.16V
  Headphone out: 885mV (0dB, for headphones with impedances below 64 ohms), 3.52V (+12dB for headphones with impedances of 64–300 ohms), and 7.03V (+18dB for headphones with impedances of >300 ohms).
   
  Line output impedance: 99 ohms.
  Headphone output impedance: 10.7 ohms.
   
  Observation: both line out and headphone out have too high output impedances to work well with BA IEMs.


----------



## shaw

Quote: 





drez said:


> Thanks shaw.  Last time I check there were some major latency spikes but I didn't try to fix them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Drez, it doesn't necessarily need to be your GPU card creating the latency. Try disabling the drivers in the Windows Device Manager (under "Display Adapters"), see if that helps. If not, try disabling WiFi and Network adapters. You might also want to test disconnecting any USB hardware you have. An unstable powersupply would probably give you more problems than just pops in audio, but you might be right, if your PSU is not powerful enough you definately need to change to a better one with higher rating, no need to get a UPS.


----------



## drez

Hmm I will have to do some troubleshooting this weekend.  Will be interesting to see how this card stacks up against dedicated transports - it certainly has low jitter on paper.
   
  BTW has anyone tried OPA627 yet, OPA2111 is warm and detailed, but not really extended or fast ( I don't know if anything other than discreet is and I have no room for one of THOSE setups lol.


----------



## scutzi128

Would anyone happen to have a copy of the latest driver for the STX? I reformatted and ASUS's driver site seems to be down. I'd really appreciate it.


----------



## d8n0g

I'm getting ready to pop some amps in and was wonder for headphones are they the two in the back side by side or the one up front along with one of the ones in the back


----------



## fufula

dbl post


----------



## fufula

Quote:


scutzi128 said:


> Would anyone happen to have a copy of the latest driver for the STX? I reformatted and ASUS's driver site seems to be down. I'd really appreciate it.


   


  You can try the unofficial driver: https://brainbit.wordpress.com/


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





drez said:


> Hmm I will have to do some troubleshooting this weekend.  Will be interesting to see how this card stacks up against dedicated transports - it certainly has low jitter on paper.
> 
> BTW has anyone tried OPA627 yet, OPA2111 is warm and detailed, but not really extended or fast ( I don't know if anything other than discreet is and I have no room for one of THOSE setups lol.


 


  my opa627's I ordered 2weeks ago are still in transit


----------



## drez

bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I might try a pair as my new amp/dac is out for repair...


----------



## Gradius

I'm planning to change OPAs too.
   
  1st option 2xLME49720HA+1xOPA2111SM.
  2nd option 2xOPA-Earth + 1xOPA-Sun.
   
  Which is better and why?


----------



## Thunderbolt

hi guys. got a new essence STX and am now thinking about exchanging the opamps. but I am totally new to this :S
   
  the thing is I dont have any clue about the technical details. on sites which sell these amps, there are mostly 2-4 different subtypes of the same amp and I have to clue what this all means and which specific one I then need (DIP, IC and e.g. for the LME49720, theres LME49720HA, LME49720MA, LME49720NA etc. Im confused.). maybe starting with the stock ones, there is one LM4562 and two JRC 2114D, right? and which specifications do they have in terms of casy type and such? which other stuff do I have to look out for when buying opamps?
   
  for me, its all about the speaker sound. I dont mind headphones, so if by exchanging and combining the headphone should sound worse, while the sound via speakers improves thats ok for me.
   
  thanks for helping.


----------



## fufula

Yes, you start with two JRC2114Ds (I/V) and one LM4562 (buffer). The two on I/V affect both, the headphone out and the RCA out, while the one on the buffer only affects the RCA.
   
  As far as opamp housings go, you want to get the DIP (sometimes called DIP8) one. In case of the LME49720, that would be the -NA one. It's possible to install opamps with different types of housings but you'd need an adapter and some decent soldering skills in order to do that, so I wouldn't trouble myself with that at this point.
   
  You should be able to find some good recommendations on what opamps to get for your STX on this site and many others.


----------



## Thunderbolt

so its always the same case type, no matter if you use them for buffer or I/V?
   
  and what does /NOBP mean, in case here for example: LM6172IN / NOPB? Do I need those with or without NOPB?


----------



## sulvaat

Quote: 





thunderbolt said:


> and what does /NOBP mean, in case here for example: LM6172IN / NOPB? Do I need those with or without NOPB?


 

  Pb = Lead so lead free.


----------



## Thunderbolt

and it this preferable or not? (price is the same)
   
  edit: the other option is ND. does that mean no dioxine? so we can choose between free of dioxine or free of lead? what are the advantages and disadvantages of each?


----------



## fufula

Always the same case type, yes. LM6172IN is the one you want to get. NOPB = lead-free version, and I've no idea whether there's any difference between the two sound-wise. I'd get the normal one.


----------



## Thunderbolt

ordered myself some nice opamps. thanks for helping so far.
   
  now, the only thing I need is a kind of instruction how the swapping is supposed to work. never done that before and I dont want to destroy anything 
   
  are there any instructions somewhere?


----------



## drez

They have a little dent in them.  Make sure writing is right way up and dent is to the left (or however the stock ones are installed).
   
  Use long nosed pliers to remove the installed opamps (carefully)
   
  Check they are seated properly and you are done.  If you are rolling frequently I wouldn't bother putting the RFI shield back on either.


----------



## SabreWulf69

^^^ Yeah, otherwise with the incorrect tension the screws used to attach the shield can become threaded rather easily as I have experienced.


----------



## Thunderbolt

found a file called "Xonar_Essence_STX_OPamp_swapping_instruction" in the asus download section


----------



## SabreWulf69

Yup, that's what comes with the "Limited" edition runs that come with 2x bonus LME 49720NA's


----------



## d8n0g

my opa627ap's came only to find out they were damaged.  Crackly sound and the only way I could hear the slightest volume is putting it on the highest gain setting and turn it up and I could still barely hear anything.  Sucks even more because I ordered from hong kong so now i'll have to wait another 3 weeks!!! yaaaay


----------



## SabreWulf69

Man that sucks to hear. Sympathies. I know that I hate waiting.


----------



## drez

ouch.  Count yourself lucky they weren't soldered on the wrong way and blew your card...


----------



## d8n0g

due to the cut&dry fact that I am a moron-I just realized the opa627ap's are single circuit and need an adapter, so here goes the questions.   What kind of adapter do I need, where do I put it in the amp area, when I install it do I take out the othe opamp (which right now i'm using 3xlm49720)  Or do I need to purchase 2 adapters and another pair of opa627ap's,  How far do the adapter hang down, and will I be able to put the shield back on because I have maybe 21/2inches between my xonar and my gpu??.  I only listen to cans right now.  Sorry for the questions but appreciate the answers (after reading to page 25 thus far you'd think I know they were single channel).


----------



## slidesear

Everyone please test this (I am getting white noise): 
   
  Set your STX to headphones, and to 44.1KHz in the Xonar control panel and play music for a few seconds. Now stop the music.
   
  Then with your headphones still on your noggin switch the output to Speakers (continue toggling it to make it easier to hear.) Do you hear white noise or hissing?
   
  Now,
   
  Set the STX to headphones and to 48KHz and play music. Now stop the music.
   
  Go back to the Xonar control panel and do the same testing where you toggle from headphone and speakers to listen for white noise and static. I don't get any when using anything other than 44.1KHz.
   
  Thanks for your time!


----------



## Gradius

Are you using the official drivers or unified one?
   
  The unified have some bugs, like you cannot change it on-the-fly while hearing something (like a music).


----------



## slidesear

I am using the official drivers: STX_7_12_8_1793_W7
   
  Are you not getting the noise? It might be because of the sensitivity of my cans which are 40Ohm (Ultrasone PRO900)


----------



## slidesear

The noise/hissing is even more noticeable when I try it with Bose TriPort's which are 32Ohm. If everyone doesn't mind can you please try the test 3 posts up?
   
  I am starting to think that the cans I am trying are too sensitive even to the low gain setting on the card.
   
  It would be nice to have you guys try and post what cans you are testing with too.
   
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## Gradius

Unfortunately cannot test it, I'm under unified drivers.


----------



## b0ck3n

My 60 Ohm Senns don't hiss too bad at all, certainly not something that's audible underneath the music, except maybe during very quiet passages. I can't use my 20 Ohm and 120db SPL ES5 as the hiss is unbearably loud - I'd have to play music at earsplitting levels to drown it out.


----------



## shaw

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> my opa627ap's came only to find out they were damaged.  Crackly sound and the only way I could hear the slightest volume is putting it on the highest gain setting and turn it up and I could still barely hear anything.  Sucks even more because I ordered from hong kong so now i'll have to wait another 3 weeks!!! yaaaay


 

  
  These IC's very rarely come shipped in a damaged state, it's more likely you didn't handle them properly wrt electrostatic disharge (ESD). Use an ESD wrist strap, and don't wear any wool socks or a wool shirt when changing circuits next time


----------



## Thunderbolt

have tested 2xLME49720 with 1xLM6172 and 1xOPA2107AP, but have to say that those 2x LMEs were not satisfying to my taste. the sound was really bright and clear, often just too bright and too clear I have to say. and despite this, there was some midrange guitar sound kind of missing or its quality has been reduced. the OPA fitted a tiny bit better compared to the 6172, but that didnt really change much. guess its just not my taste.
   
  right now I am running 2xLM6172 and 1xLME49720 and I have to say this combination sounds better to me. its not as bright and clear any more, but midrange guitars are restored and the bass is better as well. will do more testing combinations during the next couple of days. could also try my prodigy hifi 7.1 opamps at some point to see and compare.


----------



## Gradius

Just tested with 2xLME49720HA + 1xOPA2111SM (all metal can) and the differences was HUGE!
   
  I can hear now a lot things wasn't possible before, I have CDs back from 80s and when I tested I was able to hear a lot of new things, it was just amazing!
   
  I ordered 3xBursons, but I don't think it will be that HUGE difference again (perhaps it still can, who knows?).
   
  But I will only test it again after I mod the capacitors (ELNA Silmic II) and Vanguard clock together with Bursons.


----------



## aboaboabo

Gradius, how Bursons compares with metal Opamps?
  Excelent purchases.
  Thank you for reviews.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





aboaboabo said:


> Gradius, how Bursons compares with metal Opamps?
> Excelent purchases.
> Thank you for reviews.


 


  I will know that on next week (I hope) when I receive them by EMS.
   
  But I just cannot imagine know good it will be anymore, since with the new OPs (metal can types) did just an amazing work so far.


----------



## Gradius

I just modded the card again, this time I put the Vanguard there.
   
  It was unexpected but I still managed to go futher is really hard to put into numbers but I would say at least 20% better than factory clock.
   
  Also, I tried to put the new capacitors but I was unable to unsoldering them, I even tried a 80W soldering iron w/o luck.  Looks like it contains silver lead.  Tips?


----------



## slidesear

Same thing is happening with the OPA2137P's that I ordered. I tried different configurations of the 3pcs I ordered. My OPA2107PA's are working fine.
  
  Weird that this only happens with the line out. The headphone out is working fine. I also tried to swap the stock buffer with a LME49720NA and the same thing happens.
   
  Quote: 





johnzz4 said:


> Just tried a few op amps and settled on the 49720HA's on adapters in the IV and the one of the stock JRE's in the buffer. Sounds great....
> 
> Also tried different combinations with OPA2227 and OPA2137P, and finally LM6172IN. Couldn't get it to sound quite right. The 49720HA's in the IV with the OPA2227 in the buffer was second best, but there was something weird with the 4kHz range.
> 
> ...


----------



## Tez

Gradius, where did you buy the OPA2111SM from? I can only find it on Ebay and it is more than I wanted to pay. Thanks.


----------



## subtle

Over the past couple of weeks I have experimented with all the drivers available for the STX, including the unified, and I still get the best sound from the oldest ones available on the ASUS website.  Version  7.12.8.1777
   
  Is anyone still using these?


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





tez said:


> Gradius, where did you buy the OPA2111SM from? I can only find it on Ebay and it is more than I wanted to pay. Thanks.


 


  From eBay.  $30 is uber cheap, is amazing to see you guys trying to go for higher... cheap.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





subtle said:


> Over the past couple of weeks I have experimented with all the drivers available for the STX, including the unified, and I still get the best sound from the oldest ones available on the ASUS website.  Version  7.12.8.1777
> 
> Is anyone still using these?


 


  Really?  That's pretty weird.  Aren't older driver bugged?


----------



## d8n0g

Hey guy's what is ur opinion for opamps that compliment the grado sr125i's?  right now I am using the lme49270(think thats correct name.)


----------



## Gradius

Burson's arrived and I already installed.  Unfortunately the install was a bit of pain because one of trimpots was not 100% well soldered (it was inclined to a side pushing a transistor enough to deform the terminals!) by trying to level, a pin broken up (poor force was enough) so I had to desoldering and fixing the whole thing by hand and that took me two days.
   
  A day to fix the bloody pin and another day to change the terminations. I brought the wire version, but they shipped me another version (not dip either), so I had to improvise that part too.
   
  Finally have the thing installed, but I'll wait for at least 100h for burn out this thing, so far all I can say is: I can hear things that I never hear before, in other way I never imagined that from a mere lossy mp3 (yep, not even lossless or higher 24-bit audio) !


----------



## aboaboabo

Gradius, how you compare the Burson with metal opamps? Are there much difference?
  Are betters?
  Thank you.


----------



## d8n0g

For a week I will be using my sennheiser pc161's while my grado sr125i's are getting modded.  I was surprised to hear how great the sound was from the senns and can only imagine how great my grado's will sound once I receive them.  My question is is there any input on good op's to suit the grado 125's or is it personnal?
       Also could someone point me in the right direction on how to order adapters to get my opa627's to work?


----------



## Bigbuddha

HMM ... just replaced the I/V and buffer opamps with a set of 
   
  LM4562 .. i honestly didn't think I would notice much of a difference in sound being the sceptic that I am ...
   
  but errr the sound is definitely different from the stock opamps and well ...
   
  I love the sound ... so clear and detailed ... 
   
  I am using a set of HD650's as well ... I'll grab my SM3 V2's when I get a chance ...
   
  this is really awesome stuff here ... 
   
  cheers


----------



## Bigbuddha

OK.  I have now ordered 3 Burson Discrete Dual Opamps to use on this card ... should be sweet.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





bigbuddha said:


> OK.  I have now ordered 3 Burson Discrete Dual Opamps to use on this card ... should be sweet.


 


  You will love it!  No matter which OPams (IC based) do you use, it will be always sound harsh/unnatural.
   
  I can say that after I experimented both things.


----------



## Bigbuddha

Cheers mate,
   
  I can't wait to install the burson's once they arrive.  
  
  Quote: 





gradius said:


> You will love it!  No matter which OPams (IC based) do you use, it will be always sound harsh/unnatural.
> 
> I can say that after I experimented both things.


----------



## Gradius

Keep in mind you need 100h burn in to get the top performance.


----------



## SabreWulf69

I don't quite know about headphone use but for my new stereo setup at home the combo of having a LT1364 in the buffer along with 2x OPA2107's in the I/V section works awesomely. Natural, accurate dynamics, and incredible imaging.
   
  An overview of my setup can be found here --> http://www.nrnl.org/post131.html#p131


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





gradius said:


> Keep in mind you need 100h burn in to get the top performance.


 

 'burn-in' (the 'audiophile' term not the electronics manufacturing term) for opamps?
   
  uh...just no.
  Anyway, Sabre, get the 2111KP instead of 2107.


----------



## EDP

Great thread! Horribly long. 
   
  I have a problem with my STX, see here for details: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/559963/problem-with-2-channels-with-asus-xonar-essence-stx
   
  The software isn't working when in 2 channel mode!  Please reply over there or PM me if you know anything that could help.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> 'burn-in' (the 'audiophile' term not the electronics manufacturing term) for opamps?
> 
> uh...just no.


 

 Have you tried them yourself? My experience was they initially fluctuated from rather poor to average sounding and only started sounding excellent (well above any IC op-amp) after weeks of playback.


----------



## aleex

Anyone got these and the DT990's? Like to see some EQ settings if possible. For inspiration.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





walsh said:


> Have you tried them yourself? My experience was they initially fluctuated from rather poor to average sounding and only started sounding excellent (well above any IC op-amp) after weeks of playback.


 

 proper IC opamps that suit the circuit are very good these days. Really. Ask any electrical engineer.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> proper IC opamps that suit the circuit are very good these days. Really. Ask any electrical engineer.


 

 I disagree, otherwise I wouldn't hear THE difference!  
   
  Try out them yourself before talking nonsense. 
   
  PS: FYI, I used metal cap types first (the best available on IC opamps atm).


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





aleex said:


> Anyone got these and the DT990's? Like to see some EQ settings if possible. For inspiration.


 


  Dunno, they can beat HD650 (is just $50 more than DT990) ?


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> proper IC opamps that suit the circuit are very good these days. Really. Ask any electrical engineer.


 

 If he tells me they are very good, that won't make them sound any better to me. I think ears are the best measurement, better than any theoretical concepts.


----------



## SabreWulf69

Doing my sound engineering course suggests that the only thing that 'burn-in' applies to and is readily able to be ABX tested sufficiently is things of mechanical nature such as headphones and speakers for sure. Anyways, my setup if you have looked at it has a rather 'bright amp' and 'laid back' speakers, and so far the combo with the 2107's + 1364's is not too bad. @ chinesekiwi will the 2111KP's be as revealing, yet neutral on my setup as the 2107's that I have atm? I have tried the 49720's that came with my friend's 'Deluxe' version of the card and was disappointed by the weirdness of the bass, which was very off putting. In my loft atm I am quite happy with the linear frequency response that my new speakers (the DALI's that I mentioned in my setup) display in sinesweeps going right down to where the suggested frequency response of the speakers say they go down to and a little more as they are backed against a wall, and any extra 'oomph' I can then then add via the sub which I seldom use unfortunately. Personally I'm not quite sure I could do any better, but I would really love to hear any ABX difference(s) that you have noticed in the 2111KP's vs the 2107's which I have heard were a cheaper alternative to the metal capped OPA 627's. As with the DAC's I am indeed a fan of the 'Burr-Brown' sound so I would like for all intensive purposes to stick with them. Any insight is greatly appreciated,


----------



## giedrys

New drivers are out?
   
  ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/asus/audio_card/


----------



## Aspvr

Hey guys i just bought this card together with a pair of Beyerdynamics Dt 990 Premium 600 OHM + Matrix M-Stage Amp

 I'm planning on using this mainly for Dolby Headphones and games

 So my question is how should i plug the amp?
   
  Should I use the headphone amp which will force me to use an adapter ( the amp inputs are RCA ) or should i use RCA cables?
   
  I'm asking because I don't know if Dolby headphone works through the RCA outputs of the Xonar, and besides the Xonar is supposed to amp through the headphone out, wont I be using two amps if I plug the M-Stage Amp in there? Wont I lose signal quality with two amps?


----------



## sancco

If anyone feels the urge to summarise the past 164 pages, please feel free.


----------



## EDP

Quote: 





sancco said:


> If anyone feels the urge to summarise the past 164 pages, please feel free.


 


  G.O. R.E.A.D. I.T. Y.O.U.R.S.E.L.F.
   
  (Get Organized, Read Everyday And Discover Interesting Text You Overlooked Unambitiously, Read So Eventually Learning Follows)


----------



## sancco

I don't have time, I was just hoping someone who's been following it might be able to give me any good tips on how to use my STX.
   
  so G.O. T.O. H.E.L.L.


----------



## Bigbuddha

@sancco .. the very first post on this thread summarizes the whole thing pretty well .. at least for a starting point ...


----------



## 185717

Quote: 





bigbuddha said:


> @sancco .. the very first post on this thread summarizes the whole thing pretty well .. at least for a starting point ...


 

  
  ikr but i think sancco feels insecure and wants to know more so he wants you to explain...
   
  I gave up catching up so i'm joining at this point =_=


----------



## 185717

Can anyone suggest good op-amps for the stx???


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





sunbakedemokid said:


> Can anyone suggest good op-amps for the stx???


 

 49720HA


----------



## 185717

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> 49720HA


 
  ty, will check them out


----------



## ZorgDK

You got it, you need to mount them on an adapter. I bought mine pretty cheap on Ebay pre-mounted on a DIP8 adapter.


----------



## Shredicus

Ahoy audiophiles! Just recently purchased ths Xonar ST as well as some Klipsch promedia 2.1s. Using this combo immediately made me hate my crappy gaming headset thing, so I just ordered a ATH-M50 to make sweet love to my ST. Now, I've lurked around a bit and rifled through this thread to find a lot of people getting really good sound out of the 49720HA  Opamps. I went ahead and ordered 2 on ebay; but is there a guide on how to install these? I really have no idea what I need to do with these suckers to upgrade my stock headphone Opamps.
   
  Any help is much appreciated


----------



## ManuLM

take a look here (or google images "49720HA stx")


----------



## Shredicus

Oh cool, good image. Basically, how does it install though? Just pops right on? Or does it require solder?
   
  edit: upon further inspection of google images, it looks like they just pop into the socket. Which two will I need to replace though to change the headphone opamp? I'm assuming the two on the right?


----------



## ZorgDK

Yep the two on the right. The left is buffer for line out. I put in 3 of them myself:


----------



## Shredicus

Thanks for the pic and info though, that helps a lot.
   
   
  Also, how are you liking those? Do they require some time to burn in? What would you describe the change as compared to stock?


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





shredicus said:


> Thanks for the pic and info though, that helps a lot.
> 
> 
> Also, how are you liking those? Do they require some time to burn in? What would you describe the change as compared to stock?


 

 No problem, I don't believe burn in makes any difference. The sound seems more clear and detailed than the JRC opamps.


----------



## giedrys

Can someone explain once and for all how to  properly configure ASIO for foobar2000 so I can play 24/88.2 files without using any additional software resamplers?


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Can someone explain once and for all how to  properly configure ASIO for foobar2000 so I can play 24/88.2 files without using any additional software resamplers?


 

  
  Good question. I think, with the latest official driver, if you select ASIO: Xonar Ess... under device in Foobar, it should be bit-perfect and automatically play the sample rate that the track is encoded in. I'm pretty sure it overrides whatever sample rate is set in Xonar audio center and Windows sound properties.


----------



## giedrys

I does play sometimes, but with terrible artifacts or refuses to play at all. I hear the clicks, pops  etc. when browsing thru playlists for instance. All other types of files(inc. 24/96) play just fine thru Wasapi. This Asio thing on foobar drives me crazy.


----------



## Bigbuddha

OK.  I recieved and have now installed 3 burson opamps into the Xonar Essence ST card.  All I can say is the level of detail I am hearing now is unbelievable.  Songs I have listened to literally 100s of times I can hear more layers of music, the bass is very present without dominating the sound.
   
  I seriously can't believe the difference in sound.
   
  The setup ...
   
  Xonar Essence ST ---> 3 Burson Opamps ----> Windows 7 -----> J River Music 16.0 ------> flac/alac albums ----> HD650s


----------



## Phiton

Hi,
Recently bought one to experiment with streaming to my hifi setup. I am thoroughly impressed with the initial setup. Have compared some 16-bit wav/flac rips with different players (Foobar + ASIO/Wasapi, Pureplayer +Wasapi, CPlay, Stealthplayer +Wasapi). By a landslide the Stealtplayer setup was my winner.

I only use the Asus with line-out. My pre-amp is a Balanced Line stage + Buffer from Nelson Pass. I have read that the there is only 1 opamp in the analog line-out. Does anybody know if the designation buffer in this case really means 'unity gain'?
If so, then a simple bypass of the opamp in the line-out (or removal and passthrough cabling) would be a major improvement, i guess. I can then make a Nelson Pass buffer as a replacement on the pre-map input side.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> I does play sometimes, but with terrible artifacts or refuses to play at all. I hear the clicks, pops  etc. when browsing thru playlists for instance. All other types of files(inc. 24/96) play just fine thru Wasapi. This Asio thing on foobar drives me crazy.


 
   
  I did a google search and it looks like the Essence can't play 88.2 and 176.4 bit-perfect, below is a quote from a Stereophile.com review:

_The other issue that raised its head during setup was not a problem as such, but the fact that the STX and ST can't play files with 88.2 or 176.4kHz sample rates in a bit-transparent manner, which they will do with 96 and 192kHz data. The cards will indeed play 88.2 and 176.4 files, but will convert their sample rate on the fly to whatever rate has been set with the Xonar Audio Center. ASUS claims that the Essence cards' built-in sample-rate converter is of very high quality, but there will still be a loss of ultimate sound quality with 88.2 and 176.4kHz files._


----------



## giedrys

Right, but like you said in previous post, latest driver supposedly has native ASIO support. I can select it from output options, but it produces terrible artifacts(unlike Wasapi).
   
  Can someone else with ST(X) check 88.2/176.4 files with foobar/asio?


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Yep the two on the right. The left is buffer for line out. I put in 3 of them myself:


 

 Is it a must to solder them with the adapters? I got the samples that i ordered. Looking @ these DIP 8  in ebay which say solder type and some like these are called adapter type. Does that mean i can buy the adapter type and avoid soldering?


----------



## RiceEatin2010GT

Hey everyone new user here.  Im a little late to the STX club but better late then never i suppose.  I actually read this whole thread and just wanted to clarify some things.  Right now i have a very medicore set up of hd 555's being plugged into the headphone amp port which for now is fine.  Soon i want to order a pair of HD 650's and potentially down the road get a external headphone amp for it.  Saw here most people say to use RCA outs to the amp and enjoy.  My question is with volume settings should i have windows volume(mixer volume from asus program) at 100% and control the volume with the amp?   Thank you in advance this thread has helped a ton with some other questions


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





riceeatin2010gt said:


> Hey everyone new user here.  Im a little late to the STX club but better late then never i suppose.  I actually read this whole thread and just wanted to clarify some things.  Right now i have a very medicore set up of hd 555's being plugged into the headphone amp port which for now is fine.  Soon i want to order a pair of HD 650's and potentially down the road get a external headphone amp for it.  Saw here most people say to use RCA outs to the amp and enjoy.  My question is with volume settings should i have windows volume(mixer volume from asus program) at 100% and control the volume with the amp?   Thank you in advance this thread has helped a ton with some other questions


 

 Make sure the volume at the player is at 100%. If you use the headphone out, then control the volume through stx control panel volume knob. If you use line out, then keep the stx volume to 100% and control volume through the amp.


----------



## RiceEatin2010GT

Quote: 





matbhuvi said:


> Make sure the volume at the player is at 100%. If you use the headphone out, then control the volume through stx control panel volume knob. If you use line out, then keep the stx volume to 100% and control volume through the amp.


 


  Thank you! what i figured.  Im guessing its the same when im doing bit perfect playback through foobar?  Just max the foobar volume control?


----------



## audiofreak81

Here is my settings I have under the Xonar Audio Center that I think sound the best.
   
  Audio channel- 8 channels
  Sample Rate- PCM 192 khz
  Analog Out- Headphone
  SPDIF Out- Check on headphone
   
  EQ mode- Soft Rock
  LFE crossover mode- 250 hz
  HP- Large
  Environment- Padded Cell
  Dsp mode-none
   
  Any type of music sounds great with these settings and you definitely don't want to turn up the volume past 30 with these setting, it'll blow your ear drums out.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> I did a google search and it looks like the Essence can't play 88.2 and 176.4 bit-perfect, below is a quote from a Stereophile.com review:
> 
> _The other issue that raised its head during setup was not a problem as such, but the fact that the STX and ST can't play files with 88.2 or 176.4kHz sample rates in a bit-transparent manner, which they will do with 96 and 192kHz data. The cards will indeed play 88.2 and 176.4 files, but will convert their sample rate on the fly to whatever rate has been set with the Xonar Audio Center. ASUS claims that the Essence cards' built-in sample-rate converter is of very high quality, but there will still be a loss of ultimate sound quality with 88.2 and 176.4kHz files._


 


  The Stereophile review was released when the card was still using the original drivers that did not automatically change the sampling rate nor support the mentioned sampling rates.
  The drivers were updated since the release of this review and IIRC now allow both auto sample rate adjustment through ASIO aswell
  as support for 88.2 and 176.4.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> No problem, I don't believe burn in makes any difference. The sound seems more clear and detailed than the JRC opamps.


 



 The burn in won't works on those regular (low quality) ICs, just trust me.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





bigbuddha said:


> OK.  I recieved and have now installed 3 burson opamps into the Xonar Essence ST card.  All I can say is the level of detail I am hearing now is unbelievable.  Songs I have listened to literally 100s of times I can hear more layers of music, the bass is very present without dominating the sound.
> 
> I seriously can't believe the difference in sound.
> 
> ...


 



 Don't forget the burn in, I recommend at last 150h or more for it!   PPL don't believe it until they try it for yourself.
   
  I just use Winamp here (last version), and everything at 192kHz@24-bit on output, and Dolby Home Theater as EQ.   Drivers are those unified ones.
   
  Anyway, did you changed the crystal as well?  If not, DO IT!  You will get 20%~25% more of it!


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





phiton said:


> I have read that the there is only 1 opamp in the analog line-out. Does anybody know if the designation buffer in this case really means 'unity gain'?
> If so, then a simple bypass of the opamp in the line-out (or removal and passthrough cabling) would be a major improvement, i guess. I can then make a Nelson Pass buffer as a replacement on the pre-map input side.


 


  Not true at all!  Those two OPAmps are for Left & Right on line out (should be the same on headphones), the other one is for amp alone.   I tested by turning (one of those) OFF on-the-fly (by a switcher) to try it myself this is how I know.


----------



## Gradius

NEW Unified drivers are out:
  http://brainbit.wordpress.com/category/uni-xonar/


----------



## Bigbuddha

I was considering upgrading the crystal using the burson clock, probably will at some point as folks like yourself have reported very nice improvements.
   
   
  cheers
  
  Quote: 





gradius said:


> Don't forget the burn in, I recommend at last 150h or more for it!   PPL don't believe it until they try it for yourself.
> 
> I just use Winamp here (last version), and everything at 192kHz@24-bit on output, and Dolby Home Theater as EQ.   Drivers are those unified ones.
> 
> Anyway, did you changed the crystal as well?  If not, DO IT!  You will get 20%~25% more of it!


----------



## RiceEatin2010GT

Quote: 





riceeatin2010gt said:


> Thank you! what i figured.  Im guessing its the same when im doing bit perfect playback through foobar?  Just max the foobar volume control?


 

 anyone? =(


----------



## Phiton

Hi,
  Figured out the output. 1792A --> 2x dual opamp for I/V conversion and the other ompamp for buffer/low-pass. Was in the manual 
  I also removed the 'C'  opamp and just took the balanced signal (L+/L- ; R+/R-) from the IC-socket. It is now turning into a real killer.
  I used a BrownDog adapter with Gigabit ethernet cable to connect to my Nelson Pass preamp Balanced in.
   
  My setup:
  Dell Precision Workstation 390 for streaming
  Marantz SA-7S1 SACD-player
  Nelson Pass Balanced Line Stage with Mundorf silver oil --> DACT --> Nelson Pass jFet Buffer
  Marantz PM-94 modded as dedicated power amp
  DIY Speakers (dipole) with Fostex and Philips foil transducers.
   
  But now for my initial and shocking impressions.
  With redbook audio it kicks my top of the bill Marantz Flagship (SA)CD-player....
  I run with the Asus on 24-bit/192kHz with master volume @ max, but the mixer setting on 76 (stock). I really hear a distortion with mixer > 80 or so.
  Furthermore there is wide spread in output quality between ASIO, Wasapi and Windows Layer (WM-player).
  I can clearly say that foobar with either ASIO or wasapi sucks, to my ears. The clear and absolute winner is Stealth Audio Player 1.9.
  It has no clear interface, but it rocks as nothing i heard before. A good second is Cplay, with Pure Player comming in third. Foobar was just utterly disappointing.
   
  So far for my impressions. And as far as clock upgrade goes; i read the 1792a documentation and found that it rejects clockjitter very well. Second change will be some diy discrete opamps as replacement for the I/V stage (as being the only non-discreet component in the signal line).


----------



## Shredicus

So I received my two 49720HAs today and popped them in. Once I went to put the EMI shielding back on it seems raised slightly due to the taller profile of these opamps compared to stock.. I was able to screw it back on, but I noticed the card is bending slightly. Will this damage the card? I know with large GPUs this is fairly common and rarely problematic, but wasnt sure if sound cards were more sensitive. I left the screws slightly lose on the EMI shielding to make sure the card wouldnt crack or anything. Anyone else encounter this?
   
  Everything booted  up and sounds great though. Nice improvement over stock Opamps.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





shredicus said:


> So I received my two 49720HAs today and popped them in. Once I went to put the EMI shielding back on it seems raised slightly due to the taller profile of these opamps compared to stock.. I was able to screw it back on, but I noticed the card is bending slightly. Will this damage the card? I know with large GPUs this is fairly common and rarely problematic, but wasnt sure if sound cards were more sensitive. I left the screws slightly lose on the EMI shielding to make sure the card wouldnt crack or anything. Anyone else encounter this?
> 
> Everything booted it up and sounds great though. Nice improvement over stock Opamps.


 

 Great you like them. Yeah, I had the same experience, I kept the screws slightly loose and it fitted just fine.


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





gradius said:


> Don't forget the burn in, I recommend at last 150h or more for it!   PPL don't believe it until they try it for yourself.
> 
> I just use Winamp here (last version), and everything at 192kHz@24-bit on output, and Dolby Home Theater as EQ.   Drivers are those unified ones.
> 
> Anyway, did you changed the crystal as well?  If not, DO IT!  You will get 20%~25% more of it!


 
   
  How do you change the crystal?


----------



## Shredicus

Cool, thanks for the info. What  sort of  gain(if any) would I see for headphone listening if I upgrade the third Opamp as well? Also, what sort of upgrade path is preferable for this card? I've heard some talk of people upgrading the clock for these cards as well. How complex of a process is that and what sort of gains are there to be had?
  
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Great you like them. Yeah, I had the same experience, I kept the screws slightly loose and it fitted just fine.


----------



## matbhuvi

Can anyone recommend good buffer amp to pair with 2x49720HA?


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





robscix said:


> The Stereophile review was released when the card was still using the original drivers that did not automatically change the sampling rate nor support the mentioned sampling rates.
> The drivers were updated since the release of this review and IIRC now allow both auto sample rate adjustment through ASIO aswell
> as support for 88.2 and 176.4.


 

 Back to square one. Why does it sound like sh... with asio then when wasapi handles "typical" hi-res sample rates perfectly?
   
  Guys, seriously. Someone must have some 88.2 files to test.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





bigbuddha said:


> I was considering upgrading the crystal using the burson clock, probably will at some point as folks like yourself have reported very nice improvements.
> 
> 
> cheers


 
  No need that expensive Burson clock, you can just use this one:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Vanguard-Ultra-precision-Golden-TCXO-0-3ppm-24-576MHz-/120705132056?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1c1a962618
   
  I'm using that one btw.  Will do wonders!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Back to square one. Why does it sound like sh... with asio then when wasapi handles "typical" hi-res sample rates perfectly?
> 
> Guys, seriously. Someone must have some 88.2 files to test.


 
  Not sure.  I know support was added for those files awhile back.  Which drivers are you using?
  If there was no support they wouldn't sound like sh... they just wouldn't play at all.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





matbhuvi said:


> Can anyone recommend good buffer amp to pair with 2x49720HA?


 


   It would depend on what type of signature you are looking for.  Maybe a nice OPA827?
  I built some dual 827's units and they sound great.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote: 





gradius said:


> No need that expensive Burson clock, you can just use this one:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vanguard-Ultra-precision-Golden-TCXO-0-3ppm-24-576MHz-/120705132056?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1c1a962618
> 
> I'm using that one btw.  Will do wonders!


 
  What's th process for installing that thinger? Is it just a pop in job like the opamps, or does that require soldering? Also, what sort of effect does upgrading the clock have on sound signature?


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





robscix said:


> It would depend on what type of signature you are looking for.  Maybe a nice OPA827?
> I built some dual 827's units and they sound great.


 


  Thanks ROBSCIX for the recommendation. I am using FA-011 which has a U shaped signature. So, i am looking for one which emphasize on mids.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote: 





robscix said:


> It would depend on what type of signature you are looking for.  Maybe a nice OPA827?
> I built some dual 827's units and they sound great.


 

 I'm looking at OPA827 opamps on the Texas Instruments website and cant figure out which one is a correct buffer replacement. They all have suffixes such as OPA827AID/OPA827AIDG4/OPA827AIDGKR/ etc. Would you happen to know which suffix is correct for the Xonars? Also do these opamps require and adapter?


----------



## Iqbal

hey guys, i have this card, in the asio control options what should i set the latency to ?


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





shredicus said:


> What's th process for installing that thinger? Is it just a pop in job like the opamps, or does that require soldering? Also, what sort of effect does upgrading the clock have on sound signature?


 

 You will need two soldering irons to get the original (tiny) crystal out of PCB, after that do some cleaning with isopropyl alcohol.  You'll need to soldering the new one, here are the tips:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433533/upgrading-the-crystal-x0-on-essence-stx/195
   
  Keep in mind Vanguard is +5V, I used AZ7805D (U20), and his GND too:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433533/upgrading-the-crystal-x0-on-essence-stx/210
   
  I did something similar to catx, however I got GND from U20 as well, I used 24AWG (from Cat5E since they are good quality) for both (+5V & GND).  The only thing soldered directly (pin from clock) to PCB was Vanguard's (clock output) signal.


----------



## Shredicus

Hm, I'm no pro when it comes to soldering, but that doesnt look too tricky. I''ll definitely keep that in mind when I get the upgrade itch again hehe. Good info, thanks


----------



## nakaroxx

whats the best opamp that can be used on asus xonar essence stx?49720HA?


----------



## Bigbuddha

burson discrete opamps hands down ... for me .. nothing approaches them for sound quality ...


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





shredicus said:


> Hm, I'm no pro when it comes to soldering, but that doesnt look too tricky. I''ll definitely keep that in mind when I get the upgrade itch again hehe. Good info, thanks


 


 Not hard at all, just some job and time needs to put on it, but it will be worth 100x.  
   
  About the quality, it opens the sound even more, I though it would be near impossible to be even better than I already had with bursons, but IT DID!  And I couldn't believe it!  Almost cryed.  lol!
   
  Now I have one of very best sound card available for PC today.


----------



## nakaroxx

what op amps are these?


----------



## soulj4h

Would you guys consider a new STX for $160.00 shipped a decent deal?


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





bigbuddha said:


> burson discrete opamps hands down ... for me .. nothing approaches them for sound quality ...


 


  They are costlier than the card for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





soulj4h said:


> Would you guys consider a new STX for $160.00 shipped a decent deal?


 
  For new? yes it is a good deal..not for refurb or used.


----------



## nakaroxx

burson op amps or stock op amps + little dot mk v?which one is the best?


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





nakaroxx said:


> burson op amps or stock op amps + little dot mk v?which one is the best?


 


  Burson = over $200 + shipping.
   
  I guess that answer your question.


----------



## nakaroxx

so, its better to use little dot mk v instead of burson opamp?


----------



## walsh

Quote: 





gradius said:


> You will need two soldering irons to get the original (tiny) crystal out of PCB, after that do some cleaning with isopropyl alcohol.  You'll need to soldering the new one, here are the tips:
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433533/upgrading-the-crystal-x0-on-essence-stx/195
> 
> Keep in mind Vanguard is +5V, I used AZ7805D (U20), and his GND too:
> ...


 

 Which post were you referring to with the instructions? The one with the 3 steps or the 4 steps further down?


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Not sure.  I know support was added for those files awhile back.  Which drivers are you using?
> If there was no support they wouldn't sound like sh... they just wouldn't play at all.


 

 Right now using latest official drivers from ASUS, but tried many "unified" ones with same result. I really don't get it- everything that plays thru wasapi (except 88.2 and 176.4 of course) plays great. Everything thru ASIO-awful. Besides a lot of artifacts, I hear "everything" else what's going on on PC- mouse clicks when switching playlists, noise when web browser is loading etc. Maybe it has something to do with widows sounds settings. But then again- settings are "no sounds". And I hear nothing "foreign" when using wasapi. Crazy stuff.


----------



## Gradius

Here is the complete instructions:

   
  Clock (pin 7) to GND of AZ7805D (marked as no.1 on picture)
 Clock (pin 8) to no.2 on picture (X1 on PCB, that is XTAL1 from pin 46 of AV100)
 Clock (pin 14) to pin 3 of AZ7805D (no.3 on picture, that is +5V output)

 Clock pin 1: you can cut it if you want.

 Asus AV100:
 46: XTAL1 (clock input)
 47: XTAL2 (clock output)


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Right now using latest official drivers from ASUS, but tried many "unified" ones with same result. I really don't get it- everything that plays thru wasapi (except 88.2 and 176.4 of course) plays great. Everything thru ASIO-awful. Besides a lot of artifacts, I hear "everything" else what's going on on PC- mouse clicks when switching playlists, noise when web browser is loading etc. Maybe it has something to do with widows sounds settings. But then again- settings are "no sounds". And I hear nothing "foreign" when using wasapi. Crazy stuff.


 
  Looks like IRQ sharing problem.
   
  Btw, I'm using LINE OUT, setup to 192kHz@24-bit (always) and the last unified drivers.
   
  Using 44.1kHz@16-bit for CDs just won't make any sense to me, this is more a "purity" thing and in fact you are LOSING quality by doing that.


----------



## giedrys

OK, care to share how to fix this potential "IRQ sharing" problem?


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





gradius said:


> Looks like IRQ sharing problem.
> 
> Btw, I'm using LINE OUT, setup to 192kHz@24-bit (always) and the last unified drivers.
> 
> Using 44.1kHz@16-bit for CDs just won't make any sense to me, this is more a "purity" thing and in fact you are LOSING quality by doing that.


 


  IRQ sharing issues, on Vista/7? Not likely. That was a relevant point on XP, not anymore.
   
  EDIT: Is the card placement overruled already?


----------



## NMSX

New owner of one of these, STX 225$  4frags.com (Spanish hardware shop).
  I hope it's worth


----------



## SabreWulf69

For sound system listening I use the line out with the superior SNR.
   
  I am using the ASUS Xonar Essence STX, with the lastest Uni Xonar drivers, using XMPlay with ASIO output @ bit depth and sample frequency of source material on Windows 7 Professional for bit-perfect playback + more accuracy via upsampling when EQ'ing is used because -
   
  ""If you're playing back 16-bit 44.1kHz sampled content without any processing, and the DAC is ideal, then increasing the sample rate or bitdepth will make no difference to the output quality. If the DAC is non-ideal, then upsampling in software can improved the measured performance. If the DAC is terrible, then ABXing this imrpovement by listening is possible (especially with torture signals!).

 Increasing the bitdepth is only necessary to avoid a measurable decrease in quality if you're going to do any processing, e.g. EQ, ReplayGain, DSP, digital volume control, convolver etc etc. Most maths produces more bits, so it makes some sense to keep as many as possible. Otherwise you have to re-quantise the output of these stages back down to 16-bits, which is rather like dividing two by three, and then rounding to the nearest whole number! This is only ABXable on specific (mostly test) signals, but certainly improves the measured performance."
   
  More information can also be found here --> http://www.audioholics.com/education/audio-formats-technology/upsampling-vs-oversampling-for-digital-audio
   
  This works a treat, and I am not getting any of these anomalies that others have mentioned. Try out this setup and see if it works for you.


----------



## fufula

I'm having some trouble playing back at 24-bits using uLilith with ASIO. The music plays at 3x its normal speed when 24-bit sampling is selected in ASIO control panel, though it works fine at 16, 32-bits. It also works properly at every available bit-depth when using WASAPI. Are there any downsides to using 32-bit sampling with this card? I haven't really noticed any, I'm just curious.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> OK, care to share how to fix this potential "IRQ sharing" problem?


 

  
  Try another slot.  That is a HARDWARE thing, not OS (software).  Could be other thing than simple IRQ.

 Btw, the optimum setup is at 96kHz@24-bit, at 192kHz it losses frequency sooner.


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





gradius said:


> Try another slot.  That is a HARDWARE thing, not OS (software).  Could be other thing than simple IRQ.
> 
> Btw, the optimum setup is at 96kHz@24-bit, at 192kHz it losses frequency sooner.


 


  I will, but how is that a HARDWARE thing if everything plays fine thru Wasapi but not thru ASIO?


----------



## tommyboyHD

New drivers up in case anyone missed them http://support.asus.com/Download.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=Xonar+Essence+ST&p=21&s=1


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> I will, but how is that a HARDWARE thing if everything plays fine thru Wasapi but not thru ASIO?


 

 Try first, ask after (lol).


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





tommyboyhd said:


> New drivers up in case anyone missed them http://support.asus.com/Download.aspx?SLanguage=en&m=Xonar+Essence+ST&p=21&s=1


 


  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread/2475#post_7600188


----------



## Angelbelow

Does anyone have the DSM 3s from m-audio? Trying to figure out how im going to connect everything through the analog inputs..


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





gradius said:


> Try first, ask after (lol).


 


  Very funny.
   
  Tried the trick, same result.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Very funny.
> 
> Tried the trick, same result.


 
   
  Well I have this problem once (yesterday).  It happened when I was watching a BD movie then stopped and started to hear background noise when I did something on Windows (first time that happened).
   
  Solution: played something on winamp and it returned to normal again.  Looks like driver issues, but to me never happened, only once.


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





gradius said:


> Well I have this problem once (yesterday).  It happened when I was watching a BD movie then stopped and started to hear background noise when I did something on Windows (first time that happened).
> 
> Solution: played something on winamp and it returned to normal again.  Looks like driver issues, but to me never happened, only once.


 
   
  Gradius, I appreciate your efforts, but do you even read my message? It has nothing to do with winamp, watching BD movies and other stuff. The ONLY problem I have is when playing music thru ASIO. That's it.
   
  And where did you get the idea to suggest changing PCI slots? And for instance  I thought you can offer some serious solution...


----------



## disruptfam

New here - Sorry if this has been asked but which Burson Opamps did you use? 
   
  Cheers 
  Quote: 





bigbuddha said:


> OK.  I recieved and have now installed 3 burson opamps into the Xonar Essence ST card.  All I can say is the level of detail I am hearing now is unbelievable.  Songs I have listened to literally 100s of times I can hear more layers of music, the bass is very present without dominating the sound.
> 
> I seriously can't believe the difference in sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bigbuddha

Gday,
   
  Burson only make 2 varieties of opamps
   
  Dual opamps
   
  and 
   
  Single opamps
   
  For the xonar essence you will need to get 3 Dual opamps to replace the 3 opamps on the board.  WARNING .. soldering skills required ...
  
  Quote: 





disruptfam said:


> New here - Sorry if this has been asked but which Burson Opamps did you use?
> 
> Cheers


----------



## Shredicus

Any suggestions for a good buffer opamp that will compliment 2x 49720HA well?


----------



## disruptfam

Once again sorry if this has been asked before.
   
  So far haven't seen this question have not been through the whole thread 170pages though...
   
  New to rolling Opamps
   
  Anyone used or using the AD8620, AD8599 or AD8066 with the stx?


----------



## repman244

Hello everyone, I'm new here but I have been a "lurker" for quite a while.
  I have a Xonar Essence ST + HD595 for quite some time now, and using foobar2000 for my music.
   
  I've been using ASIO (24bit 1ms) as my output setting and I'm very curious about some things.
   
  - I play a lot of 24-bit 96kHz music (Vinyl rips) and the normal 16-bit 44.1kHz files, whenever I play a 96kHz and then play a 44.1kHz I get a loud pop which is rather annoying and loud. My guess is that the card automatically selects the sampling rate which results in a pop, so now I'm using the Sox resampler in foobar and resample everything to 96kHz (should I use 192kHz?) so I don't get the annoying pop, is this the only solution here?
   
  - I tried WASAPI but it's even worse, I get pops just by opening folders in Windows which is even more annoying. If it wouldn't make the annoying pops I would just use WASAPI as it sounds identical to ASIO.
   
  - Since I use ASIO I can't control the volume in Xonar Audio Center so I have to use foobar's volume control - is this affecting the music by any chance (is it just digital control or does it control the amp?).
   
  - Is there any point in using 32-bit output in the ASIO configuration rather than 24-bit?


----------



## d8n0g

was wondering how much someone would charge to replace the crystal if I provided it?  Also any info on what that'll do for the sound?


----------



## Scytus

Quick question:
   
  Can one use the STX without the onboard amp? As in, use your own amp and use the STX for DAC (and DH) purposes?
   
  If that is the case, how would the STX compare to the Xonar D2X quality-wise in terms of DAC performance?


----------



## leeperry

d8n0g said:


> was wondering how much someone would charge to replace the crystal if I provided it?  Also any info on what that'll do for the sound?


 

 clearer stereo image...but honestly, get an ST instead as it's got a clock conditioner on the DSP clock already.



scytus said:


> Can one use the STX without the onboard amp? As in, use your own amp and use the STX for DAC (and DH) purposes?


 

 DH only works on the HP output AFAIK.



> Originally Posted by *disruptfam* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> New to rolling Opamps
> 
> Anyone used or using the AD8620, AD8599 or AD8066 with the stx?


 

 I think a wise choice for I/V would be OPA827, this chip is often recommenced for this purpose. For the final buffer, I would personally try OPA602BP or OPA627BP.


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> DH only works on the HP output AFAIK.


 
   
  Well..that puts a damper on things.
   
  Would that be the same case with the D2X as well? as in I wouldn't be able to use DH and my own external amp at the same time?
   
  EDIT: Also, can one switch off DH on a DH-enabled device? I ask as for music purposes I would probably want it off, and only on for when gaming.


----------



## Shredicus

Quote: 





scytus said:


> Well..that puts a damper on things.
> 
> Would that be the same case with the D2X as well? as in I wouldn't be able to use DH and my own external amp at the same time?
> 
> EDIT: Also, can one switch off DH on a DH-enabled device? I ask as for music purposes I would probably want it off, and only on for when gaming.


 


  Yeah it's fully toggleable on or off. Im not sure if it works with the line out. When I "checK" the SP/DIF box it allows me to choose between PCM and Dolby Digital Live


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





shredicus said:


> Yeah it's fully toggleable on or off. Im not sure if it works with the line out. When I "checK" the SP/DIF box it allows me to choose between PCM and Dolby Digital Live


 

 I see, I was under the impression that SP/DIF is for use when you have your own external DAC solution. Since I intend to use the internal DAC (but my own amp), I would use the line out, which should utilize the card rather than bypass it as does the SP/DIF.. I wouldn't understand why DH wouldn't be available there. Would someone be kind enough to check for certain if line out does not have DH functionality?


----------



## SabreWulf69

OPA2111's / OPA2107's / OPA2132's for I/V? Preference and why?
   
  I'm thinking that the 2132's would be a good 'jack of all trades' to match the LT1364 I have in the buffer, any opinions?


----------



## leeperry

sabrewulf69 said:


> any opinions?


 
   
  Yes, give up dual opamps and start soldering single opamps on adapters. You can thank me later ^^


----------



## SabreWulf69

If I chose say some OPA1641's for this purpose, then what besides the crappy brown-dog adapters would I be able to use so that I can still have the shield thingy still in tact? If I have to lose that then I might as well change the crystal, power mod it, and go fully discrete. I want to go the dual OPAMP routes as it's easy to do because I'm a lazy n00b, but I still want advice on the route that I intend to go if that isn't too much to ask 
   
  [Edit]
  I was also wondering if I could use this card as a 'phono' preamp for my turntable via the micophone input? and, if I can, would it be worse than say just getting a basic [size=x-small]Project Phono Box MkII MM/MC Phono Stage[/size]?


----------



## leeperry

sabrewulf69 said:


> besides the crappy brown-dog adapters would I be able to use so that I can still have the shield thingy still in tact? If I have to lose that then I might as well change the crystal, power mod it, and go fully discrete.


 

 You can entirely keep the metal shield when using brownies...this said, all this thing does is fry the components(hence increasing THD and lowering MTBF), it doesn't do anything else whatsoever. It's the PCB that's shielded, the metal case is here for the show. Xbitlabs didn't measure any difference whatsoever in RMAA either way.


----------



## Thunderbolt

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> - I play a lot of 24-bit 96kHz music (Vinyl rips) and the normal 16-bit 44.1kHz files, whenever I play a 96kHz and then play a 44.1kHz I get a loud pop which is rather annoying and loud. My guess is that the card automatically selects the sampling rate which results in a pop, so now I'm using the Sox resampler in foobar and resample everything to 96kHz (should I use 192kHz?) so I don't get the annoying pop, is this the only solution here?
> 
> - I tried WASAPI but it's even worse, I get pops just by opening folders in Windows which is even more annoying. If it wouldn't make the annoying pops I would just use WASAPI as it sounds identical to ASIO.
> 
> - Is there any point in using 32-bit output in the ASIO configuration rather than 24-bit?


 


  - from what I've heard that poping is normal and indicates the automatic change of the sample rate. so its supposed to be normal with asio. get used to it and dont resample (especially not with sox), its loss of quality.
   
  - wasapi is **** for me as well, EXCEPT for the very first version of the drivers the vista 6.12.8.1756 drivers. they work with windows 7 as well (if you encounter problems, remove all sound stuff from autostart) and you wont get pops when browsing through explorer any more. disadvantage seems to be that wasapi cannot do automatic sample rate changing and does resampling instead, which should on the other hand mean no pops. so maybe this is what you are looking for (if you game though, then these drivers might be **** and have quite many problems)
   
  -afaik (correct me when Im wrong) the card only has 24-bit output, so selecting 32-bit should mean that its down converting to 24-bit during playback, right? then just leave it at 24-bit, up converting from 16 to 24-bit is no loss of quality (zero bytes are added)


----------



## giedrys

To me, it's opposite. Wasapi works quite well, except with some hi-res files(88.2/176.4). ASIO "plays" them all but quality is****.


----------



## Thunderbolt

wasapi works well when I use jr16 with the wasapi event style function. but just normal wasapi has quite some buffer problems and does those clicks in explorer with winamp (and I like to keep using winamp)


----------



## SabreWulf69

KK, OPA2132's or OPA2111's for the I/V section? Preference and reasoning? Anybody. Any other 2 channel DIP8 recommendations instead?
   
  Does anyone know if it's possible to use the microphone input as a phono preamp? Even if I can, would it still be better to get something like a basic Project Phono Box MkII??


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Here's some questions to you ASUS card owners. Can you tweak the intensity of the reverb effects besides the "small", "medium" and "large" settings (maybe custom defined presets?) and what's found under the "more" button in reverb section, maybe more settings to manually set it up as you want?
   

   
  Also how large are the increments on the EQ or doesn't it even display any values (I assume they show up as you drag the sliders)?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Any1? This is just a matter of checking out the driver settings and won't take you long.


----------



## aleex

The EQ does not display values as you drag the sliders. There are however 40 "steps" on every slide (increment/decrement is +20/-20).


----------



## SabreWulf69

Specifically over the current sound I have now, I would like this -
   
   
  Bass needs a little more low end depth
  Mid-bass needs to loose a little 'richness'
  High end needs a little more 'sparkle' at the top most registers to take full advantage of my DALI's ribbon tweeters
   
  The overall sound is quite nice with the OPA2107's in the I/V section and the LT1364 I have in the buffer. It's just that I would like a little more in going towards a truly uncoloured presentation by fixing the things above. I think I shall have to go for some OPA627AU's on B.D.'s for the I/V. Besides discrete, does anyone have any objections or differing opinions from any first-hand experience that they might have on this? Also does anyone know what direction that you would have to mount these? -->
   
  http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/mm5/graphics/components/ic_opa627_adapter.jpg
   
  Any help is much appreciated and welcomed.


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





sabrewulf69 said:


> Specifically over the current sound I have now, I would like this -
> 
> 
> Bass needs a little more low end depth
> ...


 
  49720HA x 2 make my grado's sexy thus ending my quest for opamps unless someone wants to give 2xburson's


----------



## pangolinman

Heya

 Could you guys recommend me a set of Op Amps to swap out both the stock I/V and buffer?

 Personally, i like a cold and analytical tone, with plenty of intensity. Preferably something that is clear and does not provide any artificial coloration of the sound so warm it up or make it sound more "natural".


----------



## pbjabba

How do you guys rate this card against amp/dac combos at roughly the same price? I was originally looking at an amp/dac for flexibility down the track, but currently I would just be using my PC as the source. I've been told that for the price the STX is a better buy than the Maverick D1 for example. What do you guys reckon? Also how does the amp in the STX fare with higher impedence phones like the 250ohm Beyerdynamic stuff (DT770 etc) and AKG 701?


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *giedrys* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The ONLY problem I have is when playing music thru ASIO. That's it.


 


  ASIO problem is always related to CPU power processing, try to change ASIO delay.


----------



## Gradius

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *d8n0g* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 49720HA x 2 make my grado's sexy thus ending my quest for opamps unless someone wants to give 2xburson's


 

 Actually is 3xBursons not 2.
   
  But not point if you won't change the crystal/clock too.


----------



## giedrys

Quote: 





gradius said:


> ASIO problem is always related to CPU power processing, try to change ASIO delay.


 


  I tried to increase it to the max at it somewhat helps. Does it affects SQ or am i just imagining things?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Hmm, what do you guys think about plugging a ZO Personal Subwoofer amp directly to the analog headphone jack of an Essence STX? Would the double amping cause a lot of issues even if using the lowest gain? The ZO  has about the same kind of output power as FiiO E11 amp for example. I'm trying to decide whether to go for a DX/D1/D2/D2X or ST/STX.


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Hmm, what do you guys think about plugging a ZO Personal Subwoofer amp directly to the analog headphone jack of an Essence STX? Would the double amping cause a lot of issues even if using the lowest gain? The ZO  has about the same kind of output power as FiiO E11 amp for example. I'm trying to decide whether to go for a DX/D1/D2/D2X or ST/STX.


 


  just to add it to your woes  ..DX is on sale for $53 AR from Amazon


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Yea well I'm from europe. ;(
   
  I'm heavily concidering a non ST/STX though due to not having an amp as I fear the output volume if nothing else gets quite a bit loud with a ZO v1 which doesn't have any volume control (will switch for v2 later which is supposed to have it though). On a Titanium HD card I had to use 9 ~ 12% volume for normal listening. xD


----------



## HaBBarN

ive just sent an order for my xonar stx  hope it would be much better than my Audigy 2 ZS, i can use the RCA outputs to my reciver right?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I just found an interesting deal on an ASUS D2 so I think I'll go for that, it's probably safer than ST or STX so I can avoid double amping from the headphone jack with ZO amp.


----------



## Tacoboy

I use to have the Xonar DS, which was replaced by the Xonar DX I'm currently using, I also use a single 6922EH tube headphone amplifier with the DX.
  My best headphone is a Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm. I need to use the tube amp. if want to use the 250-Ohm with the computer.
  Can't use Dolby headphone and the Tube amp. at the same time.
  So I'm thinking of replacing the Xonar DX with the Xonar Essence STX for the built in headphone amp.
  (I believe you can replace the the current op-amps on the STX card with better quality op-amps to improve the headphone output?)
  I was think of getting the Xonar DX2, so I could still use my Logitech Z-5300 5.1 speakers, but then again I have hardy used the speaker much in the past year.
  How much of an improvement is the Essence STX headphone sound quality over the Xonar DX?
   
  My Essence STX arrived, now just have to figure out if the LME49990 will wotk on this card?


----------



## Arnotts

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> I use to have the Xonar DS, which was replaced by the Xonar DX I'm currently using, I also use a single 6922EH tube headphone amplifier with the DX.
> My best headphone is a Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm. I need to use the tube amp. if want to use the 250-Ohm with the computer.
> Can't use Dolby headphone and the Tube amp. at the same time.
> So I'm thinking of replacing the Xonar DX with the Xonar Essence STX for the built in headphone amp.
> ...


 

 Can't you use the spdif out to the headphone amp to keep dolby headphone?


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





arnotts said:


> Can't you use the spdif out to the headphone amp to keep dolby headphone?


 

 S/PDIF is a digital signal. You would need a DAC between the amp and card.
   
  Tacoboy, the Essence STX should have plenty of power to drive the Beyers to ear splitting levels. Have you tried just plugging them into your current sound card though?


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





head injury said:


> S/PDIF is a digital signal. You would need a DAC between the amp and card.
> 
> Tacoboy, the Essence STX should have plenty of power to drive the Beyers to ear splitting levels. Have you tried just plugging them into your current sound card though?


 


  Yes, I tried plugging the DT-770 250-Ohm straight into the Xonar DX, but even with all the volume controls set at max. the sound level is at about 3/10,  not really worth it.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





arnotts said:


> Can't you use the spdif out to the headphone amp to keep dolby headphone?


 


  My Indeed 6922EH single tube headphone amp. only has RCA and 3.5mm input.


----------



## Agro

What op amps would you guys recommend for Ultrasone Pro 750s? I prefer bassy. The stock setup, my headphones are really bright and harsh, is there anything else i can change on the soundcard to better suit my headphones? I just use the headphone out, so i just need to change the two I/V slots, right? Thanks!
   
   
   
  This might've been answered already (sorry if it has), i tried finding answers to my headphone specific questions but couldn't find much.


----------



## chiggah

[size=small]Hi I am experiencing very quiet output to my headphones, any ideas ?[/size]
   
  Its all functional but the headphones are quiet as. I plugged into the Headphone out jack and downloaded new drivers
   
  I have checked and unchecked SVN (Smart Volume) and still no difference
   
  However, its fine when connected via SPDIF to my Z5500
   
  EDIT: When I plug my headphones into my Z5500 - it's also quiet as well.
   
​


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





chiggah said:


> [size=small]Hi I am experiencing very quiet output to my headphones, any ideas ?[/size]
> 
> Its all functional but the headphones are quiet as. I plugged into the Headphone out jack and downloaded new drivers
> 
> ...


 

 What are your headphones? Have you tried to change the gain setting (by clicking the little hammer icon by the Analog Out section)? Are you sure they're plugged into the headphone out and not the input jack?
   
  Check the Mixer tab to make sure the left and right channels aren't turned low for some reason. Check the EQ in Effect, too. Check the Speakers device properties just in case something's screwy and it's muted or the volume is turned down there somehow (shouldn't be because the two volumes are linked). Make sure the application you're using doesn't have its volume low. I would set Windows sound scheme to No Sounds and turn the System Sounds bar up, I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
   
  Don't use SVN.


----------



## Tacoboy

Just won a Essence STX off eBay (one hour ago), and planning on replacing the op-amps.
  I've been trying to read this whole thread, hopefully posting this message will be answered faster then reading all 172 pages of this thread.
   
  Are the LME49860NAs currently the best(?) upgrade op-amps?
  (installed in pairs)
   
  And what would make a good third chip?


----------



## d8n0g

I have a decent question.  Do you get the same drive from the card if you connect the front i/o ports of your mobo to the card?  In other words- instead of plugging you cans directly into the jack socket in the back of the card is there an audible difference if you plug it into the front? Do the amps have the same effect?


----------



## Tacoboy

With my Xonar DX, I do not hear a differants, but that's using Superlux HD-668B.


----------



## SabreWulf69

What do people mean by the OPA2132P's having a poor soundstage? I just put some in and they sound pretty good for my Cambridge Audio Azur 740A Integrated Amplifier + DALI Ikon 6 MKII's setup. At any rate this 'sound stage' people talk about doesn't seem to exist according to Wikipedia, the correct term is sound localization. I listened to 'Feeling This' by Blink 182 which is one of the poorer recordings of music and I could distinctly hear the appropriate voice when it is separated coming from the left speaker, so it seemed pretty localized to me. I will agree though that the higher end is only ever slightly veiled but no where near as much as some others have made it out to be. As far as bloated bass goes, it isn't bloated at all. Thumps still thump and vocal richness still sounds relatively similar to the 2107's.


----------



## misha0209

Hi there,
   
  sure glad i found his thread, but 172 pages ~gulp~
   
  so i'm going to be quite straight-forward with a question here, so excuse the noobness.
   
  proud (not that proud because of the drivers) owner of an essence ST. after using the headphone output for about 2 weeks, i figure i try the RCA out, and found that i like that sound more -bass++ 
  but after reading the datasheet for the LM4562 the figure of 600ohm load impedance is everywhere.
  so i find myself asking, why the need for the hi impedance headphone output? i thought it was ok, but compared to the RCA out it lacks bass, maybe my HD555 are at fault? am i doing something wrong?
  and the most important question, can i hurt the LM4562 chip by using these 50 ohm headphones on the RCA output if the datasheet states 600ohm value as "default" output impedance?
   
  also, due to the thread being this long, i am going to ask if someone can recommend a pair of amps to use in the I/V section, so that, using the headphone output of the card, i get a deeper bass then default.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## HaBBarN

in the program that comes with the card you should be able to choose gain for higher ohms. here is a pic of it : http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-essence-stx-review/4 (scroll down)


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





misha0209 said:


> Hi there,
> 
> sure glad i found his thread, but 172 pages ~gulp~
> 
> ...


 

 Are you sure you're reading the datasheet correctly, or do I have the wrong data sheet? The phrase "load impedance" never appears. The only mention of "impedance" is in the differential input impedance (30kOhm), common mode input impedance (1000MOhm) and output impedance (closed-loop is 0.001 ohm, open-loop is 13 ohm). When it mentions "load" and "600" together, it's talking about the load it can drive (the headphones).
   
  I'm no engineer, but load impedance is _not_ output impedance. As far as I know the output impedance of the Essence STX's headphone jack is 10.7 ohms and that does not change.
   
  What are you feeding with your RCA outs? The headphones?


----------



## misha0209

Quote: 





head injury said:


> Are you sure you're reading the datasheet correctly, or do I have the wrong data sheet? The phrase "load impedance" never appears. The only mention of "impedance" is in the differential input impedance (30kOhm), common mode input impedance (1000MOhm) and output impedance (closed-loop is 0.001 ohm, open-loop is 13 ohm). When it mentions "load" and "600" together, it's talking about the load it can drive (the headphones).
> 
> I'm no engineer, but load impedance is _not_ output impedance. As far as I know the output impedance of the Essence STX's headphone jack is 10.7 ohms and that does not change.
> 
> What are you feeding with your RCA outs? The headphones?


 


  well yes, i kind of thought it was talking about the load (headphones), that's why i am asking if i can damage the chip in any way by connecting a 50 ohm load instead of a 600 ohm load.
  yes i connect my headphones to the RCA out. i do not own any amps.
  i actually moved over to the RCA out because i had this impression that the headroom was wrong. i felt that the sounds in the right phone took shape closer than the ones in the left. i do not seem to feel that with the RCA. it could be just placebo...


----------



## Tacoboy

Are there any other websites out there that have forums dedicated to all things Essence STX?


----------



## d8n0g

yeah but no detail like this thread-this is the only place where I could find all my technical questions


----------



## ratedgprodigy

Question regarding computer temperatures
   
  My PSU died a few months ago from my a1450n pavilion. I replaced it with some $40 contraption that I bought at some local PC shop.
   
  How important is it to have a high-powered PSU for these cards? I don't want the computer to overheat and I did notice my computer temperature jumped up about five degrees while using this card (According to SpeedFan). Usually runs around 60C but was running around 65C for a few minutes. I have a AMD Athlon processor so I check my temperatures frequently.
   
  Just taking some precautionary measures.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





ratedgprodigy said:


> Question regarding computer temperatures
> 
> My PSU died a few months ago from my a1450n pavilion. I replaced it with some $40 contraption that I bought at some local PC shop.
> 
> ...


 
  I would assume that a decent 600 watt power supply is good enough for most people, what power supply did you get?


----------



## HaBBarN

600watts is overkill for most regular systems, you only need that much if your oc'ing your cpu or your gpu and have a high end system with like GTX480 and i7 960


----------



## HaBBarN

Quote: 





ratedgprodigy said:


> Question regarding computer temperatures
> 
> My PSU died a few months ago from my a1450n pavilion. I replaced it with some $40 contraption that I bought at some local PC shop.
> 
> ...


 
  dont use speed fan to meassure temp's use hwmonitor or core temp, speed fan is ****


----------



## ratedgprodigy

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> I would assume that a decent 600 watt power supply is good enough for most people, what power supply did you get?


 

 The PSU I bought around February I believe uses 500-W to 550-W. Nothing special...just came from some computer shop since I was broke and needed one immediately. I think they might have made it from spare parts.
   
  Changed to Core Temp. Reads 63C consistently. Haven't seen it jump to 65 since that one incident


----------



## HaBBarN

try apply some load to the cpu and see if it gets hotter then you might need to change the cooling paste


----------



## d8n0g

has anyone had an icute hooked to the rca outs yet?-how is it?


----------



## giedrys

Someone here on HF tried to persuade me that by swapping PSU to Hi-end gold efficient 750W one will make ST(X) sing. I'm still not convinced.


----------



## sagatman

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Someone here on HF tried to persuade me that by swapping PSU to Hi-end gold efficient 750W one will make ST(X) sing. I'm still not convinced.


 

 Maybe you can use two PSU in one computer, that is, one PSU supplies the ST only to isolated all electro-interference from other components in computer (fan, hard disk...).
http://www.lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/product06.php?pr_index=108&cl_index=2&sc_index=10&ss_index=19
  A kit like this can start the secondary PSU on starting-up.
  In this way I found the sound improve hugely.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Someone here on HF tried to persuade me that by swapping PSU to Hi-end gold efficient 750W one will make ST(X) sing. I'm still not convinced.


 
   
  A good quality PS (power supply) might feed an STX more stable power, over a cheapo $19.95 no name.
  (I've had fairly good luck with those cheapo PS....mostly).
  Nothing wrong with spending extra dollars for a quality PS.
  But what would i know, I've only been building and repairing Windows PC for 15 years


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> Does not really make sense to me, but what do I know.


 
  NO.  someone here on hifi needs to stay in the headphone department.  As for psu-a straight 750watt should do you fine.  You can go higher but it is not necessary.  I'm runing an overclocked quad, 2xssd's,, 2x1.5tb hdds, ati hd 6950, 16gb of ddr3, 6 fans, and this xonar with an 800watt psu...no problems what so ever


----------



## SabreWulf69

I am trying to get my head around OPAMP rolling from a circuit design point of view. Would I be correct in saying that the voltage conversion stage would benefit more so from OPAMP's with faster settling times and slew rates like the LT1364's for example and that the buffer / filter stage would benefit more from OPAMP's that have really low noise and distortion characteristics that are neutral, flat and detailed sounding like the OPA1612's for example ? (As far as the RCA output goes). Yay??? Nay???


----------



## d8n0g

has anyone tried using opa627 in the adapters


----------



## taiyoyuden

Do you guys have any recommendations for what I should try for, Essence ST (Line-out) => Lovely Cube (BCL Clone) => K701?


----------



## 185717

Quote: 





habbarn said:


> 600watts is overkill for most regular systems, you only need that much if your oc'ing your cpu or your gpu and have a high end system with like GTX480 and i7 960


 

 that depends on the efficiency of the psu and what plugs you need cause if you have a rack of hard drives needing to be powered, a 600w may be a better solution. If you do have a high efficiency psu, then you ideally want your load to be at around 60-70% cause that is where most psu are most efficient


----------



## 185717

Quote: 





giedrys said:


> Someone here on HF tried to persuade me that by swapping PSU to Hi-end gold efficient 750W one will make ST(X) sing. I'm still not convinced.


 

 Shouldnt make a difference. I have a AX850 and a cheap 400w brandless psu and they made no noticible difference with sound card performance.


----------



## SabreWulf69

It shouldn't have made any noticeable difference. There may be tiny improvements to the 'cleanliness' of the power, but this would entirely only be a placebo effect if any difference was actually heard. Switchmode PSU's are inherently 'dirty' by design no matter the quality.


----------



## misha0209

hi,
  going to swap the amps on my card as soon as my order gets here.
  problem is i did not put the OPA2137 on the order. understand it has heavy bass, considering myself a basshead, so, bad move... i did however order the LME49720HA and plan to solder them on browndog adapters and use in the I/V.
  now, my question is, how are the LME49720HA's compared to the OPA2137 bass-wise. should i place another order just for the 2137?
   
  and another thing. many have been talking about how wide the soundstage gets when using the LME49720HA, but what about soundstage depth? can anyone compare it to default 2xJRC and 4562 buffer?


----------



## SabreWulf69

Despite a lackluster response to my query above, I have just ordered 2x LT1364's, 1x OPA1612 and one SO8 to DIP8 B.D. Adapter as I think this will net me an almost discrete level of sound. Can't wait till they all come in.


----------



## Tacoboy

Just replaced my two 2114Ds with two LME49860NAs in my Essence STX.
  They work fine and sound good, can't say I can hear the difference between the 2114Ds and the LME49860NAs.
  The difference might be there, but it takes five minutes to change the chips.
  If I had two Essence STX, I could switch between the two in a few seconds, to better compare.
  It was worth it for the $12.00.


----------



## disruptfam

Anyone own a ad900 and stx combo?
   
  Which opamps did you find the best combo to be?


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





disruptfam said:


> Anyone own a ad900 and stx combo?
> 
> Which opamps did you find the best combo to be?


 
  Experiment, try a pair of the LME49990NA, I was thinking of trying them next.


----------



## SabreWulf69

Trying to get a heads up on the OPA1612 that I have coming in. Would one describe it as sounding similar to a OPA2132 except with more airy highs, a better 'soundstage', and slightly leaner bass? (also hoping the sound is slightly more forward as the slightly velied mids of the 2132's drive me mad sometimes vs the OPA2107's I was previously using).


----------



## Paul Blythe

Had my STX & HD650's for just over a month and am enjoying listening to them, but can tell there is room for improvement. I do like to tweak things if its possible to do so and want to try the Burson HD audio opamps; though this means either ditching my gfx card or getting a new mobo with the x1 pci-e sited below the x16 ...
   
  If I'm using the STX with headphones only, do I really need 3x Burson opamps? and is the clock upgrade a must-do job if i go with the Burson's?!
   
  Ultimately I'd like a Burson HA-160D but the Benchmark Dac1 usb keeps grabing my attention also, and the new Xonar Essence One does look very nice ... hmmm!


----------



## RiceEatin2010GT

using the RCA outs to a dedicated amp would be your best bet in my opinion.  The DAC in the stx is the best part of the sound card.  I just ordered a matrix quattro amp my self.
  
  Quote: 





paul blythe said:


> Had my STX & HD650's for just over a month and am enjoying listening to them, but can tell there is room for improvement. I do like to tweak things if its possible to do so and want to try the Burson HD audio opamps; though this means either ditching my gfx card or getting a new mobo with the x1 pci-e sited below the x16 ...
> 
> If I'm using the STX with headphones only, do I really need 3x Burson opamps? and is the clock upgrade a must-do job if i go with the Burson's?!
> 
> Ultimately I'd like a Burson HA-160D but the Benchmark Dac1 usb keeps grabing my attention also, and the new Xonar Essence One does look very nice ... hmmm!


----------



## taiyoyuden

Quote:


riceeatin2010gt said:


> using the RCA outs to a dedicated amp would be your best bet in my opinion.  The DAC in the stx is the best part of the sound card.  I just ordered a matrix quattro amp my self.


 


  +1,
   
  I just want to make sure... are all 3 op-amps are used for the RCA out?


----------



## Bojamijams

Yes
   
  Though some prefer the sound of the HP out (0 gain) -> Amp.
  
  Quote: 





taiyoyuden said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> +1,
> ...


----------



## gh32

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Yes
> 
> Though some prefer the sound of the HP out (0 gain) -> Amp.


 
  Really? I would think sending an amplified (however small) signal would be considered worse than a pure line level out. I haven't tried it on my ST though, so I can't say.


----------



## RiceEatin2010GT

i thought i read that only 1 op amp is used for the RCA's.  using the headphone amp to a external amp is a terrible idea.


----------



## Paul Blythe

I totally get what you mean about using the STX as a source and getting a good amp to match. The Burson HA-160 looks to be about the best amp to get for the money I'm willing to spend...
   
  Tried the STX hooked up to my Denon avr-2310, sounds slightly brighter than I like but has the edge on soundstage & detail over my Oppo bdp-83 - Denon combo... the stx doesn't sound any better or worse with the denon than through the stx's own headphone out.
   
  Update; my main computer died on Friday morning  (


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Yes
> 
> Though some prefer the sound of the HP out (0 gain) -> Amp.


 

 ohh..i thought i am the only one doing that. But, i am using with gain. I know it is supposed to be poorer SQ with more chance of distortion.
  It is more of a convenience than anything else. As my amp is utterly neutral, i slightly prefer the color added by the headphone out.


----------



## Bojamijams

Line out uses 2x I/V and the buffer.
   
  HP out uses 2x I/V and amp.
   
  And its not a terrible idea. The noise is slightly higher but still below hearing levels.  Also HP out bypasses the capacitors in the signal path (ruins fidelity)
  
  Quote: 





riceeatin2010gt said:


> i thought i read that only 1 op amp is used for the RCA's.  using the headphone amp to a external amp is a terrible idea.


----------



## jumper

What is the general consensus regarding the STX vs. entry level external DAC's of today?  Can the STX sound better than what's available in its own price range?  $200, $300, $400?  I'm building a new computer with a primary purpose of listening to hi res music and am trying to determine if the STX is 'good enough' or if there is a big difference between it and say the DACport, HRT Musci Streamer II+, and others in that price range.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## SabreWulf69

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Line out uses 2x I/V and the buffer.
> 
> HP out uses 2x I/V and amp.
> 
> And its not a terrible idea. The noise is slightly higher but still below hearing levels.  Also HP out bypasses the capacitors in the signal path (ruins fidelity)


 

 If using the headphone output results in more noise, then inversely what do the capacitors *technically* do to ruin the fidelity through the RCA outputs?


----------



## Darkmaster

Just installed the card. Wanted to ask for abit of help if someone can bear with me since i'm a total newbie when it comes to this. I've a annoying problem
   
  When I connect my headphones I can't hear anything but it "clicks" as I switch between the settings.
   
  The only way I can get it to work is when I connect the headphones into the green coloured cable (top of it is green) then in two devided red & white output on the computer.
   
  Can't even see the headphones as a option in Windows sound options just speakers. Is there a solution for this? :& I want to use the headphone output. Been trying for hours, i've disabled my old card in the bios too. If there a difference which one connect my headphones to? Shows how little I acually know. I'd guess that the headphone output sounds better?
   
  And what settings would you recommend me to set? If i'm honest I don't know much about Khz and Ohm  I mostly listen to instrumental music and soundtracks but of course other stuff aswell but not often.( I'm gonna grab Sennheiser 650 headphones pretty soon too by the way).
   
  Hoping someone got the time to reply, I'd appreaciate it a lot!
   
  Apologies for my english, i'm from Denmark.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





darkmaster said:


> Just installed the card. Wanted to ask for abit of help if someone can bear with me since i'm a total newbie when it comes to this. I've a annoying problem
> 
> When I connect my headphones I can't hear anything but it "clicks" as I switch between the settings.
> 
> ...


 

 Set the Analog Out option in the sound card Audio Center to "Headphone". Set the channels to 2. Set the sample rate to whatever your music is, probably 44.1kHz. Make sure it's not muted. Enable the HF mode. 
   
  Go into your Windows sound options. Under Playback select the ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio Device as your default. Its default name is probably Speakers. Don't select the S/PDIF one, that's for the digital out. Once Speakers is set to default, go into its Properties and set the default format to 24 bit, 44100 Hz (or whatever sample rate you have your music encoded at).


----------



## Darkmaster

Quote: 





head injury said:


> Set the Analog Out option in the sound card Audio Center to "Headphone". Set the channels to 2. Set the sample rate to whatever your music is, probably 44.1kHz. Make sure it's not muted. Enable the HF mode.
> 
> Go into your Windows sound options. Under Playback select the ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio Device as your default. Its default name is probably Speakers. Don't select the S/PDIF one, that's for the digital out. Once Speakers is set to default, go into its Properties and set the default format to 24 bit, 44100 Hz (or whatever sample rate you have your music encoded at).


 

 Thanks alot for the settings! But still when I switch the Analog Out from 2 speakers to headphones I don't hear anything at all =/ Wonder why..  Does anyone know how to fix this? I've seen some screenshots were the "headphones" option was activated under Windows sound options but I can only see Speakers and the S/PDIF one under mine. Maybe it dosen't matter at all? I mean which output I use, but I guess that the headphone one is better.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





darkmaster said:


> Thanks alot for the settings! But still when I switch the Analog Out from 2 speakers to headphones I don't hear anything at all =/ Wonder why..  Does anyone know how to fix this? I've seen some screenshots were the "headphones" option was activated under Windows sound options but I can only see Speakers and the S/PDIF one under mine. Maybe it dosen't matter at all? I mean which output I use, but I guess that the headphone one is quite better!


 

 The device name under Windows sound options is called Speakers by default. Mine is. You can rename it if you want but that won't change anything. You switched the headphones back to the headphone jack, right? You're not plugged into Line-In jack, right? The headphone one is right under the RCA connectors.
   
  Can you take pictures of your Audio Center and Sound settings? These are mine:


----------



## Darkmaster

Ah, they probably renamed it then.  Tried loads of different settings in the Xonar Audio Center, but couldn't hear anything at all from the headphone jack. Only the white & red speaker jacks. Sure, think it's the same as yours now.  Plugged in Front R & Front L, I think I just got the problem, lol.. The thingy you get with the package to attach to the end of the headphone cable to make it fit into the headphone jack, I never thought of that... Damn i'm so stupid... Thanks A LOT for this, finally figured it out, haha. So much appeaciated, been sitting here for a few hours experimenting with settings and try to finding the solution, haha..


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





darkmaster said:


> I think I just got the problem, lol.. The thingy you get with the package to attach to the end of the headphone cable to make it fit into the headphone jack, I never thought of that... Damn i'm so stupid... Thanks A LOT for this, finally figured it out, haha. So much appeaciated, been sitting here for a few hours experimenting with settings and try to finding the solution, haha..


 

 You mean the adapter that looks like this?





  Yeah, you kinda have to use that if your headphone plug is small


----------



## Darkmaster

Yeah, exactly that one  So simple, why didn't I think of it..Once I got home with it I was like a child at christmas, just threw the parts away and went straight for the card. Can't wait for my 650's to come so I can hear some more difference. Think i'll just let the ohm setting to be at normal for now and try it out more once I get the real stuff, just read page 1... Thanks again :F


----------



## d8n0g

I thought I was done rolling opamps but is anyone running denon d2000 straight to the card any opamp suggestions?  As of right now I'm running 2x lme49720ha's.


----------



## chiggah

Hey guys
   
  I have a technical question on how to set up the JVC HARX 700 and Essence ST
   
  The OP mentions JVC HA-RX700 64ohm at the end in this thread - http://www.head-fi.org/t/436015/official-jvc-ha-rx700-owner-s-appreciation-thread-only-unmodded-observations-please
   
  I have a Xonar Essence ST and JVC HARX700 cans, should I step up one notch on the gain (+12 db for 64-300 ohm) and set to ASIO to get the most out of these cans?
   
  I tested ASIO in foobar, it's nice but all my system's sound gets muted - game, youtube, ventrilo etc


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chiggah said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I have a technical question on how to set up the JVC HARX 700 and Essence ST
> 
> ...


 
  The JVC HA-RX900 is 64-Ohm
  Your HA-RX700 is 48-Ohm


----------



## Head Injury

Ignore the recommended ohm ratings. You can use any impedance with any gain setting, as long as you aren't turning the volume up really high. The gain setting only increases the amount of voltage available, which most low impedance headphones don't need but some high impedance headphones might.
   
  If you're getting adequate volume at the lowest gain setting, with some space left on the volume control for headroom, don't up the gain. The amp distorts more at higher gain settings.


----------



## Darkmaster

High Gain or Extra High Gain Ohm for Sennheiser HD 650?  Gonna grab mine later on today so curious which setting to go for.


----------



## d8n0g

high gain is ok, more detail IMO as long as you don't jack it up past comfortable ear bleeding levels
  Quote: 





darkmaster said:


> High Gain or Extra High Gain Ohm for Sennheiser HD 650?  Gonna grab mine later on today so curious which setting to go for.


----------



## Darkmaster

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> high gain is ok, more detail IMO as long as you don't jack it up past comfortable ear bleeding levels


 

 I feel like high gain is the best one aswell now after trying abit, volume set at 35%.The highest gain sounded too agressive to me yeah. Great stuff! Thanks


----------



## d8n0g

!


----------



## Bucko

I have a question about SPDIF. I have not brought the card yet but just want to know how to set it up properly for when I get it.
   
  So next week or so I'll have some new gear (headphones, amp, dac), now I'm going to be wanting to obviously bypass the amp/dac on the STX, so I'll be needing to plug this in the SPDIF (using coax to the dac).
   
  What settings do I select on the control panel to enable SPDIF?


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





bucko said:


> I have a question about SPDIF. I have not brought the card yet but just want to know how to set it up properly for when I get it.
> 
> So next week or so I'll have some new gear (headphones, amp, dac), now I'm going to be wanting to obviously bypass the amp/dac on the STX, so I'll be needing to plug this in the SPDIF (using coax to the dac).
> 
> What settings do I select on the control panel to enable SPDIF?


 

 Not totally sure, never done it. Start by ticking the PCM box under SPDIF Out, or Dolby Digital Live if you want Dolby effects. Then you'll probably want to set your default playback device to S/PDIF Pass-through Device, and set the output of your media player accordingly.
   
  Can I ask what DAC and amp you're getting? Especially with the DAC, you may be better off using the card


----------



## slidesear

I just picked up a pair of M-Audio BX5a
   
  I have a question regarding how I should connect them...
   
                                                                                  (line out) >>> BX5a
  My current setup is STX (RCA)>>> Fiio E9 <
                                                                                  (0db) >>> Ultrasone Pro900
   
  The BX5a's are active, therefore they have their own amplification and the E9's amp is not needed. The manual says that the "line out" is a 2V fixed signal, but I am not sure if this means any amplification is present. 
   
  I want to know if I will get better performance if I connect the BX5a's directly to the STX's RCA output. This will make it so that I can no longer use the STX's RCA's to the Fiio E9 (in turn my headphones would go directly to the STX's headphone out) Since I will not want to double amp by going from the STX's amp to the E9's amp...
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Bucko

Quote: 





head injury said:


> Not totally sure, never done it. Start by ticking the PCM box under SPDIF Out, or Dolby Digital Live if you want Dolby effects. Then you'll probably want to set your default playback device to S/PDIF Pass-through Device, and set the output of your media player accordingly.
> 
> Can I ask what DAC and amp you're getting? Especially with the DAC, you may be better off using the card


 

 Thanks for you're reply. I'm getting some LCD-2's, Schiit Lyr and Bifrost Dac (when it is out). I wouldn't want dolby live, just want to bypass all the soundcard through SPDIF. If I select PCM will that be a bit perfect signal to my DAC?


----------



## joejoejoe

Just replaced the 2 stock op amps on the Asus Essence ST with two LME49720NA's.  I like what I hear.
   
  I got a message on another forum from a guy saying he could build me a pair of LME49720HA - metal can op amps, and that they are "high grade adapters with gold plated pins and tracings using high grade solders" and that he uses TO-99 metal cans.
   
  [size=x-small]I have idea what the difference is between those and what I just installed.  Thoughts?[/size]


----------



## d8n0g

hey will one in each socket work?
   
http://tamaudio.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=82


----------



## leeperry

627 from China = 99.999999% fake.


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> 627 from China = 99.999999% fake.


 


  that doesn't answer my question though, and where do you recommend me getting them?


----------



## Kosigan

Just popped in two LME49720NA's into my STX's op-amps. I didn't realize how easy the process is; I think uscrewing the EM shield took longer than replacing the actual op-amps! I'll wait for the burn-in on these until I pass final judgment, but I'm already noticing much clearer bass and an ability to pick more easily pick out each instrument.
   
  Lovin' this card, especially since the op-amps were free! (thanks law school)


----------



## SabreWulf69

w00t, finally have my ingredients all gathered for a supreme sound --> 2x LT1364's for I/V and 1x OPA1612 with Browndog adapter for the Buffer stage. Took ages to compile just this all from the States' as I live in Aus. Also got a Wiha ESD Safe Chip Lifter. Installing tomorrow and getting a technician I know to do the adapter soldering for me. Will let you's know how she sounds  Can't wait.


----------



## drez

Quote: 





joejoejoe said:


> Just replaced the 2 stock op amps on the Asus Essence ST with two LME49720NA's.  I like what I hear.
> 
> I got a message on another forum from a guy saying he could build me a pair of LME49720HA - metal can op amps, and that they are "high grade adapters with gold plated pins and tracings using high grade solders" and that he uses TO-99 metal cans.
> 
> [size=x-small]I have idea what the difference is between those and what I just installed.  Thoughts?[/size]


 

 Make sure he installs them correctly and checks to verify, and double check yourself that they are installed correctly.
  I bought some cheap opamps on adapters from china and one of them was installed incorrectly, but I didn't notice.
  It killed my STX along with the headphones I was using.


----------



## PurpleAngel

d8n0g said:


> I thought I was done rolling opamps but is anyone running denon d2000 straight to the card any opamp suggestions?  As of right now I'm running 2x lme49720ha's.




LME49860 or LME49990.
(I use two LME49860 currently)


----------



## d8n0g

purpleangel said:


> LME49860 or LME49990.
> (I use two LME49860 currently)




Yeah just ordered samples of 49860. Could you tell me how those and 49990 hail in comparison to what im running now?


----------



## PurpleAngel

d8n0g said:


> purpleangel said:
> 
> 
> > LME49860 or LME49990.
> ...




Do not really have enough experience to say.
I installed the LME49860s about two days after buying my Essence STX.
But the LME49860s do sound good to me.
I've just heard positive reviews on the LME49860 & LME4990s op-amps.


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Do not really have enough experience to say.
> I installed the LME49860s about two days after buying my Essence STX.
> But the LME49860s do sound good to me.
> I've just heard positive reviews on the LME49860 & LME4990s op-amps.


 
  thanx man!!


----------



## ProcessJunkie

I'm putting a new computer rig in a couple of days, and 35% of the budget will be spent on putting one of these babies inside of it.
   
  Can't.freakin.wait.


----------



## ProcessJunkie

Just one question:

 Someone has an experience driving Grados from the Essence ST? I have a pair o SR60i`s and i would love to hear some positive feedback.


----------



## d8n0g

I've never had this chip setup, so I don't screw my card; which way should I install?  Should be here today...
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190577861922?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_889wt_1396


----------



## AuxInput

Okay, just finished reading through all 177 pages.  I have some questions on I/V opamps.  It appears that the THS-4032 may be a very good choice for I/V.  However, many have said that it can oscillate.  Does anyone think that it needs a film cap across the power rails in this configuration on the Xonar?
   
  Would a dual THS-4031 configuration be good in this I/V?  I've also read that the THS may get hot under certain circumstances and I wouldn't want to compound the problem.
   
  Also, based on reading, the THS-4032 may be a very transparent un-colored opamp for this configuration.  The only other non-discrete opamp possibility to compete with this would be the OPA627.  However, the OPA627 is definitely more expensive and, since it's a BB device, it may have a more laid back tube type of signature.  Am I assuming correctly?  I haven't read anyone who has used the OPA627 in I/V and given a comparison review or sonic signature. 
   
  The Bursons are wonderful I'm sure, but I don't want to put that much money into this card.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## Camptime

Hi Auxinput, I am thinking of getting the THS-4032 and OPA627 to try with my Beyerdynamic DT880 250 ohm headphones.


----------



## balancebox

can this sound care drive beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohms? with stock op amps 
   
  what would the sound quality be like 
   
  thanks


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





balancebox said:


> can this sound care drive beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohms? with stock op amps
> 
> what would the sound quality be like
> 
> thanks


 

 It will, but you'll need to use either High or Highest gain. Distortion will suffer a bit, but will remain inaudible as far as I know. The card performs very well with high impedances.
   
  It will sound like what your headphones sound like


----------



## balancebox

Quote: 





head injury said:


> It will, but you'll need to use either High or Highest gain. Distortion will suffer a bit, but will remain inaudible as far as I know. The card performs very well with high impedances.
> 
> It will sound like what your headphones sound like


 


  thanks for the quick replay wow inaudible lol 600 ohms so hard to drive...
   
  what amps are you currently using? for ur Audez'e LCD-2


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





processjunkie said:


> Just one question:Someone has an experience driving Grados from the Essence ST? I have a pair o SR60i`s and i would love to hear some positive feedback.


 


 While the ST/STX will power the SR60's just fine I would strongly consider upgrading to the cheapest wire backed unit as the wire back reduces conjestion in the grado headphones considerably. The plastic backed version has too much flat surface exposed to the driver back & grados are notoriously sensitive to any reflections from the back. On the wire back versions you can hear this by just placing your flat hand within 6 inches of the back of the housing, it changes the sound considerably as you move closer to the back of the driver with your hand. The highest end versions do not even have a logo in the center of the wire back leaving the wire back completely open.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





balancebox said:


> thanks for the quick replay wow inaudible lol 600 ohms so hard to drive...
> 
> what amps are you currently using? for ur Audez'e LCD-2


 

 600 ohms isn't hard to drive. Amps actually perform better with high impedances. The DT990 has relatively low sensitivity though, which combined with the 600 ohm impedance means it's hard to drive to loud volumes.
   
  I'm using the Essence STX with my LCD-2.


----------



## PlasticChicken

I just got mine. It's up and running perfectly. I'm really liking the sound so far on my ATH-AD2000. Can't wait til  I can try all of the different opamp combinations.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Best Buffer chip.
  I installed two LME49860NA chips in my STX for the headphone.
  The third replaceable op-amp is for the RCA output (my getting Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers).
  (Thinking of getting the LME49990NA)
  So what is the current popular op-amp for the RCA output?


----------



## Camptime

Just finished installing and uninstalling my OPA627 amps that finally arrived from the US.
  I had to uninstall them as there is no volume. Volume at 100 is just audible. Very disappointed.


----------



## adamlau

Looking to replace only the caps along the DAC-to-analogue-to-output path. Can someone point me to a diagram, image overlay, or board numbering layout (e.g. CE8) for the various caps and their functions (filtering, decoupling)? Card is not here yet, but I want to get a head start on picking up some caps. And is their a reason why folks here are recapping with Silmic II and not Cerafine?


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





camptime said:


> Just finished installing and uninstalling my OPA627 amps that finally arrived from the US.
> I had to uninstall them as there is no volume. Volume at 100 is just audible. Very disappointed.


 


  oh man they are singles-lucky you didnt damage the card!!


----------



## ohaider

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Best Buffer chip.
> I installed two LME49860NA chips in my STX for the headphone.
> The third replaceable op-amp is for the RCA output (my getting Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers).
> (Thinking of getting the LME49990NA)
> So what is the current popular op-amp for the RCA output?


 


  I finally got around to ordering some LME49860s. I think they're better than the 49720s - loses the harsh highs and seems to have increased bass and is more revealing. Also, the bass seems to have gotten a bit more punchy. Listening on HD600.


----------



## Camptime

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> oh man they are singles-lucky you didnt damage the card!!


 
  Both cards were in perfect condition when installed.
  It's not even worth sending them back as the postage is half the cost.
   
  Not a good first time experience, Need to decide if I want to try some different Op amps,But fear I will just get another 2 faulty one's .


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





camptime said:


> Both cards were in perfect condition when installed.
> It's not even worth sending them back as the postage is half the cost.
> 
> Not a good first time experience, Need to decide if I want to try some different Op amps,But fear I will just get another 2 faulty one's .


 


  The amps more than likely weren't faulty.  They are single channel, and the essence takes 2channel.  For those 627's to work you have to get an adapter. When you put those 627's in as is you get little to know sound at all!


----------



## KalumenDNar

Gradius, Which Bursons did you order?


----------



## KalumenDNar

Actually I found out, Dual OpAMPs for burson should work for my xonar.
   
However, I am thinking of getting something cheaper and something that will not require so much effort.
   
So I am thinking of :
   
[size=1.454em] 3x OPA627BP[/size]  or 
   
[size=1.454em] 1x OPA627BP with 2x OPA827AID[/size]   
What do you guys think.. ?


----------



## slidesear

I am running M-Audio CX5's from the STX via the RCA outputs with RCA cables. If you want you can also use RCA > TRS cables as the interconnect.
   
   


  Quote: 





angelbelow said:


> Does anyone have the DSM 3s from m-audio? Trying to figure out how im going to connect everything through the analog inputs..


----------



## Kentech0023

I just installed this card yesterday and it is great and everything but I have a few issues:
   
  1. I have MASSIVE electronic feedback from it - When I don't have music playing I hear static and electronic pulses pretty badly I have to mute it when I am not playing anything. 
   
  2. Audio sounds slightly tinny - Maybe this can be fixed after I play around more with the settings.
   
  3. I hear popping sounds with short audio clips - When short audio clips play (i.e. skype notification sound) I hear a pop after the sound is played and it slowly fades away. This is the most annoying issue I have.
   
  I am using this on Apple earbuds because my new headphones haven't come in yet and this is the only thing I can use for now. Hopefully it'll sound better on my MDR-7506.
   
  -Ken


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





kentech0023 said:


> I just installed this card yesterday and it is great and everything but I have a few issues:
> 
> 1. I have MASSIVE electronic feedback from it - When I don't have music playing I hear static and electronic pulses pretty badly I have to mute it when I am not playing anything.
> 
> ...


 


 I would not call the sound of this card tinny though some have complained of excessive brightness at the very top. I personally find the sound very neutral & what so called excessive brightness to be in the recordings as it sounded the same on all my sources, not just the STX. On my system it sounds full without excessive warmth or sounding cold. Attacks are sharp & clean as in real life. I have had this card for close to 2 years & not a bit of trouble unlike creatives products which seem to last about 1 to 1.5 years before causing problems.
   
  It sounds like you mike is set active & on high gain. This will cause the amplification of internal computer electronic noise. Make sure mike is muted & select anouther recording source other than microphone. Microphone inputs on most soundcards are usually very low quality
   
  Try updating driver to the latest. This may help reduce or eliminate popping noises when playing short sounds. Muting mike & swithing to different source may help also.


----------



## Pudu

kentech0023 said:


> I just installed this card yesterday and it is great and everything but I have a few issues:
> 
> 1. I have MASSIVE electronic feedback from it - When I don't have music playing I hear static and electronic pulses pretty badly I have to mute it when I am not playing anything.
> 
> ...





If it sounds bad on ibuds it won't get better, I would guess.


That definitely sounds like there's an issue somewhere. You should not expect any of that with this card.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Best Buffer chip.
> I installed two LME49860NA chips in my STX for the headphone.
> The third replaceable op-amp is for the RCA output (my getting Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers).
> (Thinking of getting the LME49990NA)
> So what is the current popular op-amp for the RCA output?


 
  Please, someone have an answer for me.
  I really do not want to read 178 pages.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





kentech0023 said:


> I just installed this card yesterday and it is great and everything but I have a few issues:
> 
> 1. I have MASSIVE electronic feedback from it - When I don't have music playing I hear static and electronic pulses pretty badly I have to mute it when I am not playing anything.
> 
> ...


 


   
  Pretty sure something's wrong. First check whether your PCI or PCI-e ports are filled with dust. I had the same problem with D2X.  Clean your ports, then plug it in.  Also, make sure your power cable thats connected into the card is not connected to something else before the card.  Use a cable that comes straight out of power supply, this card needs clean power, and a lot of power.  I had a cable that was connected into my graphics card and then into the sound card, and drivers posted errors on my screen.
   
  There shouldn't be absolutely any hissing or buzzing from this card, on any volume. It has 124 db signal to noise ratio, which is one of the best measurements of all the DAC's, no matter which price.   Also, since you're using it with in-ear's, try checking whether your card gain is set for low or high impedance headphones,  STX should have that option i think.  If nothing else works, try reinstalling drivers, fiddling with the connection in the back (make sure headphones are plugged in properly, try turning the cable jack around a bit, on my D2X it takes quite a force to plug something in, and the cable jack "clicks" 2 time before its really in.
   
  If nothing else helps, then its probably a broken card, or just too powerful for Apple ear buds.


----------



## leeperry

purpleangel said:


> Please, someone have an answer for me.
> I really do not want to read 178 pages.


 

 Most ppl in this thread can't be hassled to solder single opamps on adapters, and that's the best sounding solution by far. Try OPA827, AD797B and all the usual suspects...they'll all be a far cry from the usual OPA2132, 2111, and all those crummy sounding dual opamps.
   
  You can get adapters for very cheap on ebay, don't get conned by the stellar markups of the browndogs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-Dual-SOIC-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-/230570372702


----------



## acenes

I just put this audio card in my computer four days ago and have about 20hours of listening to it , got to say I'm not dissapointed with the stock electronics it came with.  I've read the beginning 24 pages and it's quite a journey for any of us I'm sure.
   
  I get a kick out of you leeperry , you have  a lot of opinions , and they are valid to me , so too for your nemises's , it's been a rollercoaster ride for me , a very enjoyable one when it comes to listening to you all rolling opamps.
   
  Just wanted to say thankyou , and keep up the good fight to all of you that have contributed to this thread!


----------



## acenes

One thing that dissapionts me about this audio card is I can't have a line level out volume through the line out or spdif/optical out , big let down as I have DAC amps and analog amps. I wouldn't have purchased this if I would have know this before hand.  I yet to test out line level out vs this variable level out controlled by a computer , but I'm not like excited about it.


----------



## KalumenDNar

Hello Guys,
   
  I am wondering if it works to have ths combination..
   
  1 OPA 627 and 2 AD825.... THis is what I want to order...  but do i need actually 2 adapters and 4 ad825 ??


----------



## KalumenDNar

If i need adapters then my next option is 
   
  1 OPA627 + 2 OPA827
  or
  1 OPA 627 + 2OPA2604
  .....
   
   
  If  my first option with the AD825 requires adapters thatn I wont buy it.. but if the other options are left for me, which one do you think would sound better...?


----------



## GamerOne

I have an Essence ST and a pair of AKG K701, which op-amps would you guys recommend for this combination?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gamerone said:


> I have an Essence ST and a pair of AKG K701, which op-amps would you guys recommend for this combination?


 


  Dont have the answer for Op-amps, but I wonder,  how well does that card run the K701's?


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





gamerone said:


> I have an Essence ST and a pair of AKG K701, which op-amps would you guys recommend for this combination?


 


  I have lme49990's and they are great!!
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190577861922?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5f536522#ht_889wt_1396


----------



## PurpleAngel

Anyone using three AD797BRZ in their Essence STX and how do you like the sound?
  (currently I've only upgraded the I/V with two LME49860NA)


----------



## leeperry

purpleangel said:


> Anyone using three AD797BRZ in their Essence STX and how do you like the sound?


 

 A friend of mine tried it and he said that it wasn't stable on the I/V of the STX.


----------



## GamerOne

derbigpr said:


> Dont have the answer for Op-amps, but I wonder,  how well does that card run the K701's?


 

 I runs them quite nicely indeed, though I don't have any external amp or anything to compare with. I do however experice the sound to be a bit too bright at times and also a bit lacking in bass impact, this is also why I'm looking for some new op-amps that might be more appropriate for them. Though this might also be because the headphones are new and haven't been "broken in" yet.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gamerone said:


> I runs them quite nicely indeed, though I don't have any external amp or anything to compare with. I do however experice the sound to be a bit too bright at times and also a bit lacking in bass impact, this is also why I'm looking for some new op-amps that might be more appropriate for them. Though this might also be because the headphones are new and haven't been "broken in" yet.


 


  Sounds nice.  I'm wondering because i'd like to buy the STX for my new HD650, since D2X is not quite powerful enough to power them without an amp, they lack some bass and mids feel recessed, which is not something you'd expect from HD650's. As for  K701's, I'm guessing there are op-amps that would make the K701's sound darker , but I think the lack of bass is one of their main characterstics.  I heard it in a store connected to a pretty beefy class-A amp (musical fidelity m1hpa) and they didn't have a great bass impact, much smaller than HD600 or HD650 for example.


----------



## vyyye

How good/bad is the built in amp in the Xonar Essence ST? Or how much would I have to pay to start seeing improvement if I do get a desktop amp? Headphones I use is the AH D-2000, considered getting the Asgard but frankly not sure what the difference in sound will be at all.


----------



## Head Injury

Don't get it for the D2000. Its output impedance is too high, and you don't need a lot of power so the Asgard is unnecessary as well. Get something smaller.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





vyyye said:


> How good/bad is the built in amp in the Xonar Essence ST? Or how much would I have to pay to start seeing improvement if I do get a desktop amp? Headphones I use is the AH D-2000, considered getting the Asgard but frankly not sure what the difference in sound will be at all.


 


  Xonar ST / STX should have much better headphone amps built in than D2X, and my D2X runs HD650's pretty nicely, plenty loud and it sound pretty good.  I also have a 300 dollar Pro-ject headbox se II headphone amp, and doesnt really make a difference in terms of sound quality. Its just louder with it.


----------



## vyyye

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Xonar ST / STX should have much better headphone amps built in than D2X, and my D2X runs HD650's pretty nicely, plenty loud and it sound pretty good.  I also have a 300 dollar Pro-ject headbox se II headphone amp, and doesnt really make a difference in terms of sound quality. Its just louder with it.


 
   
  Quote: 





head injury said:


> Don't get it for the D2000. Its output impedance is too high, and you don't need a lot of power so the Asgard is unnecessary as well. Get something smaller.


 
  Thanks for the quick replies. That's encouraging for my wallet, and my expectations to boot (both soundcard and headphones were dispatched yesterday).


----------



## d8n0g

I have some lme49990's ( DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER) if anyone is interested...


----------



## anddy78

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> I have some lme49990's ( DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER) if anyone is interested...


 
  Give away?
   
  One question: Would be possible to take the balanced signal after the I/V stage of the card to a balanced amp?
  I'm thinking in do that and feed a balanced cmoy whit BUF634 buffers in the outputs and cheap balanced recable my K701, just for testing.
  Could that be done?


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





anddy78 said:


> Give away?
> 
> One question: Would be possible to take the balanced signal after the I/V stage of the card to a balanced amp?
> I'm thinking in do that and feed a balanced cmoy whit BUF634 buffers in the outputs and cheap balanced recable my K701, just for testing.
> Could that be done?


 

 I honestly don't know...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





anddy78 said:


> Give away?
> One question: Would be possible to take the balanced signal after the I/V stage of the card to a balanced amp?
> I'm thinking in do that and feed a balanced cmoy whit BUF634 buffers in the outputs and cheap balanced recable my K701, just for testing.
> Could that be done?


 
  If you hooked a separate (headphone) amplifier to the Essence STX, you would more then likely use the RCA jacks, which would provide a nice solid signal to the external amplifier,
  which of course would bypass the I/V stage (and built in headphone amp.) of the STX.
   
  Better to spend around $25 (or more) to upgrade the two op-amps (I/V) on the STX.


----------



## anddy78

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If you hooked a separate (headphone) amplifier to the Essence STX, you would more then likely use the RCA jacks, which would provide a nice solid signal to the external amplifier,
> which of course would bypass the I/V stage (and built in headphone amp.) of the STX.
> 
> Better to spend around $25 (or more) to upgrade the two op-amps (I/V) on the STX.


 

 Sorry but the RCA jacks don't bypass the I/V stage, and the idea posted before is for getting a balaced signal from the xonar.


----------



## d8n0g

anddy78 said:


> Sorry but the RCA jacks don't bypass the I/V stage, and the idea posted before is for getting a balaced signal from the xonar.




You are correct sir, using the rca's utilizes all 3-am i correct in that assumption?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





anddy78 said:


> Sorry but the RCA jacks don't bypass the I/V stage, and the idea posted before is for getting a balaced signal from the xonar.


 
  So the info on page one of this thread is incorrect?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So the info on page one of this thread is incorrect?


----------



## Bojamijams

Yes it is wrong.  The RCA output uses both I/V opamps and the buffer opamp. The headphone out uses the I/V opamps and TI op-amp thats the actual headphone amplifier.
  
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> So the info on page one of this thread is incorrect?


----------



## anddy78

The electric circuit of the xonar must be close to the PCM1792 and TPA6120 datasheet's, something like this:
   
  From the PCM1792 datasheet:
   

  From the TPA6120 datasheet:

   
  So, taking the signal from the marked red spots, just before the buffer opamps, we can get balanced signal from the card. Thats correct?
   
  Or just replace the buffer opamp with an opamp socket with wires solder in the pins 2, 3, 5 and 6 (opamp inputs). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  PD: sorry my bad english.


----------



## anddy78

Also looking at the TPA COD schematic, that use PCM1794, wich is very close to the PCM1792, I think it can be done, its almost the same circuit, but maybe I'm totally wrong in my statements.
   
  The balanced amp stage that I'm thinking, it's somethig like this:


----------



## anddy78

Quote: 





phiton said:


> Hi,
> Figured out the output. 1792A --> 2x dual opamp for I/V conversion and the other ompamp for buffer/low-pass. Was in the manual
> *I also removed the 'C'  opamp and just took the balanced signal (L+/L- ; R+/R-) from the IC-socket. It is now turning into a real killer.*
> *I used a BrownDog adapter with Gigabit ethernet cable to connect to my Nelson Pass preamp Balanced in.*
> ...


 
  Oh! It was done before! So I'm going to do it.


----------



## anddy78

Quote: 





d8n0g said:


> I have some lme49990's ( DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER) if anyone is interested...


 


  So, gifted?


----------



## d8n0g

Quote: 





anddy78 said:


> So, gifted?


 


  they are free indeed....30$ shipped


----------



## DraconiaN

Hello there,
   
  i am using the Xonar Essence STX together with a Sennheiser HD650...so far, so good...i changed the JRC 2114D's for LME49860NA,
  but unfortunately for my Ears it doesn't sound better...maybe because i just got the flu... 
   
  But i noticed in a short comparison to the stock JRC Setup that these sound a bit more impulse, but the HD650 also something darker
  with these OpAmps...i`ve read some years ago before about the HD650 that it'll need a decent Headphone Amp in order to sound good...
   
  Greetings from germany.


----------



## Darkmaster

Question: What setting is the best to have on stereomix? (Using HD 650 & STX).
   
  Saw someone mention it on another forum, so I thought I would ask here, I don't even know what it does..


----------



## OneSec

Hi,
  Reporting my observation for the some op-amps with Essence ST. I use AKG702 as my main can, connecting right through the headphone amplifier port directly. I mainly listen to classical.
   
  Comparison will be given in accordance to the previous chip used. - I didn't AB much, but rather put the chip in, listen for a couple weeks, then change to the next one..
   
  The order I roll those AMP are as follow: JRC 2114D (stock) -> LME49720 -> LME49860.
   
  LME49720 - Its an upgrade for JRC 2114D

 Detail - Better
 The sound actually go more analytical
 Bass - punchier
 Wider sound stage and imaging
 I think this will goes with warm cans actually, like HD650.
 Listening is best at extra high gain - JRC 2114D has a harshness and sight distort sound at highest gain for AKG702.
   
  LME49860 - Also an upgrade for JRC 2114D, arguably for LME49720, in most cases.

 Detail is almost same as LME49720, other wise slightly less, but still better than JRC 2114D.
 This is where the fun begin - the sound is hmm... "organic". Everything seems to smooth a bit compare to LME49720, a very subjective word... "musical"? Also I hear more dynamics.
 Sound stage and imaging actually decreased compared to LME49720,
 Listening is best at extra high gain. Upon switching from LME49720, I actually hear a high volume on LME49720 and had to tone down, and switch to high gain for LME49860. However lately I have switched back to extra high gain.
 Its still pretty new, about 30 hours break in, maybe it will still change, I'm not sure.
 Right now I think this has the best synergy with AKG702, and prefer ed over LME49720. I dont think it will suite warm (slow decay) cans.
   
  So far with my setup my preference is
  LME49860 > LME49720 > JRC2114D.
   
  I hope I dont burn my 702 with extra high gain lol. I will come back more with OPA2604, LM6172 in a couple more weeks.
   
  I would be very interested in trying out discrete OP-AMP, but they are overly expensive, and defeat purpose of going for this sound card (PRICE!!). If I invest in an AMP (which I'm planing to do), I might. However if any can find cheaper discrete OP-AMP below 20ish do let me know


----------



## GamerOne

Quote: 





onesec said:


> Hi,
> Reporting my observation for the some op-amps with Essence ST. I use AKG702 as my main can, connecting right through the headphone amplifier port directly. I mainly listen to classical.
> 
> Comparison will be given in accordance to the previous chip used. - I didn't AB much, but rather put the chip in, listen for a couple weeks, then change to the next one..
> ...


 


 Nice "review"! I'm basically in the same situation as you, I have a pair of K701 that I run straight out of my Essence ST and I'm planning on eventually buying an external amp since I feel as if the Xonar's amp isn't really doing the K701 justice. I do think the Essence+K701-combo sounds amazing, but I would like a little warmer/softer sound and a bit more bass impact. Before I buy an external amp though, I'm also gonna try out some different op-amps  I've ordered a pair of LME49720 that I'm eager to test  Hopefully they'll be arriving tomorrow!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





onesec said:


> Hi,
> Reporting my observation for the some op-amps with Essence ST. I use AKG702 as my main can, connecting right through the headphone amplifier port directly. I mainly listen to classical.
> Comparison will be given in accordance to the previous chip used. - I didn't AB much, but rather put the chip in, listen for a couple weeks, then change to the next one..
> The order I roll those AMP are as follow: JRC 2114D (stock) -> LME49720 -> LME49860.
> ...


 

 I've been told the LME49860NA is the cherry pick of the LME49720NA chips.
  In other words, the LME49860NA is a LME49720NA that can take more voltage.
  Unless someone else has heard something different.


----------



## fufula

Originally Posted by *OneSec* /img/forum/go_quote.gif



> This is where the fun begin - the sound is hmm... "organic". Everything seems to smooth a bit compare to LME49720, a very subjective word... "musical"? Also I hear more dynamics.


 
 My thoughts exactly. They seem a little warmer, a little less analytical sounding. Wasn't sure if it was just placebo or not. Some say that there shouldn't be any audible difference between the two. I preferred their sound to that of LME49720s, coupled with LM6172 in buffer. I'm trying out a different combo now, 2xLME49860 + LME49720. To my ears, it actually sounds much better than the previous combinations, bigger soundstage and, surprisingly, more bass, though it kind of seems a little less, umm, tight?


----------



## OneSec

Could be my imagination. These are all subjective lol... Could be the pre break in as well.


----------



## anddy78

I'm rolling opamps in mine using K701 and my favorite until now is the stocks JRC2114 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Maybe lack of burning in the new opamps?
  I tested OPA2107, OPA2132, LM4562 and LME49860, I'm now waiting some LME49720HA's (metal can) for testing. Will post my impresions.


----------



## ohaider

Quote: 





onesec said:


> Hi,
> Reporting my observation for the some op-amps with Essence ST. I use AKG702 as my main can, connecting right through the headphone amplifier port directly. I mainly listen to classical.
> 
> Comparison will be given in accordance to the previous chip used. - I didn't AB much, but rather put the chip in, listen for a couple weeks, then change to the next one..
> ...


 



 +1.
   
  For me, though, the 49860s actually had a lot more detail compared to my 720s.


----------



## DraconiaN

well, technically, the LME49860NA is quite the same like the 49720NA, the only difference is that the -860NA covers +/- 22 V max, and the -720NA +/- 17 Volts.
  But the -860NA sounds a bit different, maybe because of extra resistors inside the OpAmp? who knows...i like the sound to be more analytical, and the 860NA
  also took of the tendency for my HD650's to sound darker...which is appreciated. i'll check out the 49720HA TO99 Version for sure, but i dunno where i can
  buy here in germany these browndog DIP8 to TO99 adaptors...and i don't know also *if* the shielding of my STX still match then...


----------



## Orland

I'm currently have 3xLME49720NA, and those sound really great for what i paid for. In my opinion these combo really beats stock op'amps section of Essence ST card. Bass more detailed and punchier than stock, and really wide soundstage with overall clean and smooth sound. Using them with MF V-CAN amplifier and Sennheiser HD650.


----------



## anddy78

Quote: 





draconian said:


> well, technically, the LME49860NA is quite the same like the 49720NA, the only difference is that the -860NA covers +/- 22 V max, and the -720NA +/- 17 Volts.
> But the -860NA sounds a bit different, maybe because of extra resistors inside the OpAmp? who knows...i like the sound to be more analytical, and the 860NA
> also took of the tendency for my HD650's to sound darker...which is appreciated. i'll check out the 49720HA TO99 Version for sure, but i dunno where i can
> buy here in germany these browndog DIP8 to TO99 adaptors...and i don't know also *if* the shielding of my STX still match then...


 
  I'm using no adaptors, just bend and cut the pins!


----------



## fufula

Quote:


anddy78 said:


> I'm using no adaptors, just bend and cut the pins!


 
 And you don't really need the "shielding" either. Doesn't do anything.


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Hey guys quick question about the STX. This card uses the same amp as the FiiO E9, correct? I was always worried when people say that so and so headphone with 250 ohm impedance requires a decent amp like the E9. I figured the amp on the STX wasn't super high quality because it wasn't a dedicated amplifier so I was cautious about getting high impedance headphones. Today I realized that it has the TI TPA6120A2, which appears to be the same as the E9. Coupled with the burr-brown 1792A DAC, is the STX just as capable as the E9/E7 combo? Will it be able to drive 250, 400, 600 ohm headphones just fine? Thanks!


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





fakeyfakerson said:


> Hey guys quick question about the STX. This card uses the same amp as the FiiO E9, correct? I was always worried when people say that so and so headphone with 250 ohm impedance requires a decent amp like the E9. I figured the amp on the STX wasn't super high quality because it wasn't a dedicated amplifier so I was cautious about getting high impedance headphones. Today I realized that it has the TI TPA6120A2, which appears to be the same as the E9. Coupled with the burr-brown 1792A DAC, is the STX just as capable as the E9/E7 combo? Will it be able to drive 250, 400, 600 ohm headphones just fine? Thanks!


 

 The Essence STX is more capable, as far as I know. It uses the same opamp on the amp side, but the circuit itself seems to be better, if the Stereophile measurements of noise and distortion are trustworthy. The two have the same power output, yes.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fakeyfakerson said:


> Hey guys quick question about the STX. This card uses the same amp as the FiiO E9, correct? I was always worried when people say that so and so headphone with 250 ohm impedance requires a decent amp like the E9. I figured the amp on the STX wasn't super high quality because it wasn't a dedicated amplifier so I was cautious about getting high impedance headphones. Today I realized that it has the TI TPA6120A2, which appears to be the same as the E9. Coupled with the burr-brown 1792A DAC, is the STX just as capable as the E9/E7 combo? Will it be able to drive 250, 400, 600 ohm headphones just fine? Thanks!


 

 My Xonar Essence STX works just fine with my 250-Ohm headphones.


----------



## CatboyMac

SQ wise, how much of a step-up is this from the Xonar DG?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





catboymac said:


> SQ wise, how much of a step-up is this from the Xonar DG?


 


  Probably more of a step-up than going from integrated motherboard soundcard to DG.


----------



## d3xtro

edit: wrong thread


----------



## Ra97oR

fakeyfakerson said:


> Hey guys quick question about the STX. This card uses the same amp as the FiiO E9, correct? I was always worried when people say that so and so headphone with 250 ohm impedance requires a decent amp like the E9. I figured the amp on the STX wasn't super high quality because it wasn't a dedicated amplifier so I was cautious about getting high impedance headphones. Today I realized that it has the TI TPA6120A2, which appears to be the same as the E9. Coupled with the burr-brown 1792A DAC, is the STX just as capable as the E9/E7 combo? Will it be able to drive 250, 400, 600 ohm headphones just fine? Thanks!




It drives higher impedance headphones better than the wattage hungry low impedance ones. Most people will just dismiss the STX because it being a computer sound card, but it does perform exceptionally especially in the DAC section.


----------



## Mncakey

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> It drives higher impedance headphones better than the wattage hungry low impedance ones. Most people will just dismiss the STX because it being a computer sound card, but it does perform exceptionally especially in the DAC section.


 


  Really? It's just that, I have an ST and I've been looking for some decent headphones to go with it, I was originally pretty set on the 600 ohm beyer DT880s but then I found a pretty old thread on here in which people were arguing back and forth saying it just wouldn't be able to run it well and that they needed an external amp, so I'm pretty confused now.
   
  I was just wondering if you could confirm for me that it would be able to do well enough with those headphones or even the 250 ohm version, without an external amp? Sorry I'm a bit of a newbie.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> It drives higher impedance headphones better than the wattage hungry low impedance ones. Most people will just dismiss the STX because it being a computer sound card, but it does perform exceptionally especially in the DAC section.


 

 It would be more accurate to say current hungry low impedance headphones. Power (Watts) needed is determined by sensitivity in dB/mW, and not by impedance.
   
  Other than that nitpick, I completely agree 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Essence STX is more than powerful enough for the DT880/600. It's one of the hardest headphones to drive, yes (in terms of voltage), but the Essence STX has plenty of voltage and its output impedance won't cause any problems. It performs very well in distortion with high impedance loads, too.
   
  The DT880/600 needs around 4 Vrms to be driven to high volume with plenty of head room. The Essence STX can do 7 Vrms at Highest gain setting. That's enough for 115 dB, an even higher benchmark for volume performance and the highest that's ever really used to my knowledge.


----------



## Mncakey

Great! Thanks for the quick reply


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mncakey said:


> Really? It's just that, I have an ST and I've been looking for some decent headphones to go with it, I was originally pretty set on the 600 ohm beyer DT880s but then I found a pretty old thread on here in which people were arguing back and forth saying it just wouldn't be able to run it well and that they needed an external amp, so I'm pretty confused now.
> 
> I was just wondering if you could confirm for me that it would be able to do well enough with those headphones or even the 250 ohm version, without an external amp? Sorry I'm a bit of a newbie.


 

  
  Dont worry, it will run them without problem.  I have a Xonar D2X (which is weaker than ST and doesnt have a special headphone amp inside) and it runs my HD650's as good as any of my 200-300$ external amps, maybe not that loud (still more than loud enough), but in terms of sound quality, headphones might even sound better straight out of the soundcard.


----------



## Muffinator

I tried making a thread for this question, but it doesn't seem to be garnering much attention.
  I figured it would be prudent to ask it in the big thread. I'm looking for a set of neutral-sounding
  op-amps for my future Essence ST. Currently I'm looking at the LT1364CN8, the AD797AR and
  to a lesser extent the LME49860NA. I described what I want in more detail in *the thread I made*.
   
  I'd much appreciate the insights of anyone who has had experience with these op-amps in the ST
  with regards to neutrality and resolution. Thanks in advance!
   
  Muffinator


----------



## OneSec

I read the conversation betweeb PurpleAngle and yourself, and would agree to all his statement. In resolution term LME49860NA and LME49720NA are definately step up from the stock op-amp.
   
  If you are using external amp, I read somewhere that LME49720NA or 1 other chip may put a cap on the bass when using it on the buffer (from 1 of the post in these 182 pages). Beware. I hope I have more time to go over this and confirm this with you later. Pruple Angle, feel free to correct me 
   
  In terms of neutral, its very difficult to judge - I think the pairing (headphone actually) plays a more important role. You need to tell us

 the phone you are using, or
 which frequency range is lacking / eccessive in your opinion. or
 The sound is too harsh, you want to tone it down a bit / too smooth you want to give it a bit more kick.
   
  For example if you use a lean base phone, then you might need to pair up with a heavy base op-amp to strike a balance, etc. Op-amp rolling does answer your question in some degree, but if you are asking for a large different or total different sound signature, a different headphone would be the answer most of the time.
   
  Neutral is very subjective - some people comment AKG702 bass is rolled off, but for me it was the right amount. Honestly I will not be the right person to suggest what is right for you, but with all these infomration I hope someone will help point you to the right direction.
   
  Good luck with your search for neutral sound.
   
  Quote: 





muffinator said:


> I tried making a thread for this question, but it doesn't seem to be garnering much attention.
> I figured it would be prudent to ask it in the big thread. I'm looking for a set of neutral-sounding
> op-amps for my future Essence ST. Currently I'm looking at the LT1364CN8, the AD797AR and
> to a lesser extent the LME49860NA. I described what I want in more detail in *the thread I made*.
> ...


----------



## Muffinator

I'm using an HD 555 at the moment, but that's only because it's the only thing I have.
  I'd like to give it more openness and bass impact, but those are taken care of just by
  adding an amplifier. I figure it'll sound balanced enough once amplified, so neutral op-amps
  still seem optimal to me considering my plans to upgrade. I find nothing wrong with the
  HD 555 otherwise, and as far as I can tell it's not too different from the K702.
   
  Neutrality is not subjective; it's just widely misconceived. An unfortunately popular belief
  is that neutral means the sound is "cold", bright, dull, uninvolving, etc. What neutrality
_truly_ means is a lack of sound signature. The equipment reproduces sound in its true form,
  without adding any coloration of its own. It's an open window into the music.
   
  As for complaints about the K702, bass roll-off is only a result of underamplification.
  With a powerful amp behind it such as the M-Stage, Lyr, HA-160, etc., it should be fine.
  Although, I should add that all I know is through research. I haven't actually tested this.


----------



## OneSec

Sounds like monitor phone or speaker will be a start for you.
   
  I would say if you go descrete op-amp you might have a bigger chance for success for search for nuetral. Search for "natural" / "neutral" on first page of this thread should give you some idea which op-amp to go for.
   
  I would suggest take PurpleAngle's suggestion to go for LME49860NA, since the tube like nature will even out the "digital" sound of SS nature. Descrete op-amp is exellent in this area as well.
   
  Good luck.
   
  Every component adds a certain coloration of itself. How the sound engineer master the track, every step in the sound production transport / DAC / AMP / speakers / headphone / cable adds its own coloration. You will need to go for component matching to get what's uncolored sound to you.
   
  A full end to end matched system however will give higher success rate to obtain uncoloration.
   
  P.S.: To me AKG702 with Essence ST is neutral, cause it gives me the closest "life alike" sound in relative to real life performance on classical. However based on how low frequency are heard and felt by most, the bass is overall considered "less" on headphone by design, as it cannot produce the "feel" speaker does. So some manufacture pre-emphasised bass in thier headphone product "to make up the loss". I think this is discussed in sound science forum. I probably more sensitive in "hear bass" than most people, and thus make 702 sounds accurate to me, even "without proper amplification" as mentioned by most.


----------



## HiroPro

I just recently purchased an Asus Xonar Essence ST and I also ordered an H6 daughter board. I wish to replace the stock op-amps. I'm looking at the LME49710HA-ND TO99-8 x 2 mono cans on an adapter for L/R. For the H6 I'll use LME49720NA-ND 8-MDIP x 3 for the buffer stage. I'm curious what op-amps I should use for the I/V stage. I'm looking at OPA2137P and OPA2137PA. The only difference I can see is the voltage input offset with the P being 1500µV and the PA being 2500µV so I guess the PA is the cheaper part. Any ideas as to what would be better for use with LME49710 and LME49720 or possibly a better I/V op-amps for use with LME49710/20 ?
   
  I intend to use it directly into digital amp modules I'm building. I'm curious about one thing though. Protected Audio Path! I hope to decode the new lossless formats from Bluray. I have a bad fealing AV100 DSP isn't PAP compliant. I know the AV200 does support PAP... Why didn't asus use the AV200 because I think that's one of the only differences... that and some bin sorting BS. It's simply a DSP HASH license I believe and all new Realtek implementations support it! Probably something like a penny to a dollar in added costs on DSP licensing per chip.


----------



## Muffinator

I'm trying to find op-amps for the ST myself. Unfortunately I can't help you,
  but surely someone else can. Where the heck did you manage to find an H6 board?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiropro said:


> I intend to use it directly into digital amp modules I'm building. I'm curious about one thing though. Protected Audio Path! I hope to decode the new lossless formats from Bluray. I have a bad fealing AV100 DSP isn't PAP compliant. I know the AV200 does support PAP... Why didn't asus use the AV200 because I think that's one of the only differences... that and some bin sorting BS. It's simply a DSP HASH license I believe and all new Realtek implementations support it! Probably something like a penny to a dollar in added costs on DSP licensing per chip.


 
  I've always thought the AVS100 and AVS200 were the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor?
  Where did you hear different?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





muffinator said:


> I'm trying to find op-amps for the ST myself. Unfortunately I can't help you,
> but surely someone else can. Where the heck did you manage to find an H6 board?


 
  Here are some sellers of the Asus HDAV 1.3 H6
   
  Memory4less Calif.
  Xpcgear  Calif.
  Compuplus east coast USA
  Amazon UK
  eBay UK


----------



## 185717

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I've always thought the AVS100 and AVS200 were the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor?
> Where did you hear different?


 
   

  
http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20090410031057846&board_id=21&model=Xonar+Essence+STX&page=1&SLanguage=en-us
   
  probably 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  EDIT: http://techgage.com/article/asus_xonar_essence_stx/3 is the main site...


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





sunbakedemokid said:


> EDIT: http://techgage.com/article/asus_xonar_essence_stx/3 is the main site...


 


 I wouldn't trust everything this site says as it appears they didn't actually test the front panel audio as they claim that it is not amplified. Actually all front panel audio output options are amplified by the headphone amp, even the front panel 2 speaker output uses the headphone amp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sunbakedemokid said:


> http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20090410031057846&board_id=21&model=Xonar+Essence+STX&page=1&SLanguage=en-us
> probably
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So it appears to be the same CMI8788 Oxygen HD audio processor, which can output 8 channels (7.1) for an analog 7.1 speaker setup.
  Blu-rays can output 7.1 channel of sound, so a sound card (like the Essence ST), needs to be able to output analog 7.1
  The Essence STX was only designed for 2 channel analog output, no need to process the other 6 analog channels.
  So the Essence STX can be using the CMI8788 full processing power for only 2 channels, great sound.
  Or Asus can use a CMI8788 with up to 6 defective sound channels (cheaper processor) to power the STX


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





germanium said:


> I wouldn't trust everything this site says as it appears they didn't actually test the front panel audio as they claim that it is not amplified. Actually all front panel audio output options are amplified by the headphone amp, even the front panel 2 speaker output uses the headphone amp.


 
  Well my 250-Ohm headphones have no problem working off the front jack.


----------



## ale14

hello guys i have stx sound card and i really love it
  my curent set up is 2 channel amp and speakers so im using rca output
  i really wanna try other op amps like *LME49720* and i read here that some use same op amps for I/V and buffer some uses other op amps for buffer so i really dont know what to do right now.
  maybe other users with similar setup like mine can help me or just tell me what op amps to get cuz ill be ordering maybe 2 or 3 different op amps but i dont know if for example i order *LME49720* do i buy just 2 of them or do i need 3
  thx a lot guys for any help


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ale14 said:


> hello guys i have stx sound card and i really love it
> my curent set up is 2 channel amp and speakers so im using rca output
> i really wanna try other op amps like *LME49720* and i read here that some use same op amps for I/V and buffer some uses other op amps for buffer so i really dont know what to do right now.
> maybe other users with similar setup like mine can help me or just tell me what op amps to get cuz ill be ordering maybe 2 or 3 different op amps but i dont know if for example i order *LME49720* do i buy just 2 of them or do i need 3
> thx a lot guys for any help


 
  Just order three LME49860NA, great price on eBay


----------



## ThibWay

Hello, I have a problem with opamps as well, I put 3 X LME49720NA and there's way too much highs  !!! I have to put -4db on 8Khz and -8db on 16Khz and even with that, highs are still VERY agressive  !
  It's so agressive that I feel very disturbed with my ears, I tried to reduce it further but it still kind of "hurts". I'll try to go backwards with opamps but I have to ask my parents to go get the soundcard box, and I don't believe it's going to change the sound THAT much.
  It does not come from the speakers, I have soundsticks II and they're already harsh but JBL duet are very soft and with the soundcard they become harsh as well and have far more highs. And it's the same for the big Ellipson's speakers :_(...

 If you have any please tell me I'm having a hard time enjoying this soundcard whatever the use of it : headphones, speakers, in ears (too much power for IE8 : 16 ohms and high sensitivity...)
  I almost regret it, I should have bought a costly external amp with digital input 
   
  Thank you
   
  EDIT : I'm doing tests to really listen to the difference and there are many songs where the vocals actually have more treble I'm taking my J3 and the duet before my ears explode....


----------



## ale14

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Just order three LME49860NA, great price on eBay


 

  
  thx purpleangel i will buy, but can u just give me maybe one or two other op amps i can try bcuz i allready pay for shipping so why not throw a few in already thank u very much


----------



## OneSec

If you plug your headphone to the card directly on the headphone jack you need to roll only the I/V sessions - 2 will be sufficient
   
  If you use a headphone amp connecting to the 2 RCA jack, then you need to roll the buffer as well - 3 in that case.
   
  Normally people will pair the i/v on identical opamp, and the buffer follow the same or use a different one.
   
  First page have a lot of information on opamp impression and will be a good start. Better to loo there because some sound signature information is included, you can pick those that suite your taste best.
   
  I have bought 4 pairs to roll, and after 1 month, I'm still trying on the second pair which is recommended by purple angle - I'm a burn in believer so it will take a good 50 hours for me to confirm if the sound is what I'm looking for .

  
  Quote: 





ale14 said:


> thx purpleangel i will buy, but can u just give me maybe one or two other op amps i can try bcuz i allready pay for shipping so why not throw a few in already thank u very much


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





thibway said:


> Hello, I have a problem with opamps as well, I put 3 X LME49720NA and there's way too much highs  !!! I have to put -4db on 8Khz and -8db on 16Khz and even with that, highs are still VERY agressive  !
> It's so agressive that I feel very disturbed with my ears, I tried to reduce it further but it still kind of "hurts". I'll try to go backwards with opamps but I have to ask my parents to go get the soundcard box, and I don't believe it's going to change the sound THAT much.
> It does not come from the speakers, I have soundsticks II and they're already harsh but JBL duet are very soft and with the soundcard they become harsh as well and have far more highs. And it's the same for the big Ellipson's speakers :_(...
> If you have any please tell me I'm having a hard time enjoying this soundcard whatever the use of it : headphones, speakers, in ears (too much power for IE8 : 16 ohms and high sensitivity...)
> ...


 

 I'm just taking a shot in the dark.
  Get three LME49860NAs, they are the cherry picks of the LME49720NA that have been labeled LME49860NA (better voltage range).
  $15 on eBay for all three.
   
  AD797ANZ have great reviews, might also be a little more "finicky" on which board they will work well in.
  But I believe the Essence is ok with them.
   
  AD797ARZ (and AD797BRZ) are the SOIC, which need a SOIC to DIP-8 mount to work on the Essence.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ale14 said:


> thx purpleangel i will buy, but can u just give me maybe one or two other op amps i can try bcuz i allready pay for shipping so why not throw a few in already thank u very much


 

 I'm not an experienced op-amp user, check the first page of this thread.


----------



## raiser roofer

Is the RCA output unshielded?? I have a Schiit Asgard amp plugged into my STX, and I can hear either processor or disk noise, similar when plugging headphones directly into an unshielded laptop output.
   
  I know it's not the amp, because the noise only happens when I make an action on the computer, and adjusting the volume even to 0 on both the amp and the computer still produces the noise at the same volume.
   
  It's probably too quiet to hear if you're using full sized headphones, but on IEMs it's incredibly noticeable, and very distracting when playing some games.


----------



## ale14

hmm so LME49860NA are better than LME49720NA im so confused because there are really a LOT of options for these op amps so i think ill just order these
  2 X LME49860NA
  2 X LM6172
  2 X LT1057
   try all combinations and keep the best one


----------



## OneSec

Quote: 





ale14 said:


> hmm so LME49860NA are better than LME49720NA im so confused because there are really a LOT of options for these op amps so i think ill just order these
> 2 X LME49860NA
> 2 X LM6172
> 2 X LT1057
> try all combinations and keep the best one


 

 Great! Remember to give them some good hours.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





raiser roofer said:


> Is the RCA output unshielded?? I have a Schiit Asgard amp plugged into my STX, and I can hear either processor or disk noise, similar when plugging headphones directly into an unshielded laptop output.
> I know it's not the amp, because the noise only happens when I make an action on the computer, and adjusting the volume even to 0 on both the amp and the computer still produces the noise at the same volume.
> It's probably too quiet to hear if you're using full sized headphones, but on IEMs it's incredibly noticeable, and very distracting when playing some games.


 

 Wow, is the Schiit Asgard that much better sounding then the STX's headphone amplifier?


----------



## ohaider

Quote: 





thibway said:


> Hello, I have a problem with opamps as well, I put 3 X LME49720NA and there's way too much highs  !!! I have to put -4db on 8Khz and -8db on 16Khz and even with that, highs are still VERY agressive  !
> It's so agressive that I feel very disturbed with my ears, I tried to reduce it further but it still kind of "hurts". I'll try to go backwards with opamps but I have to ask my parents to go get the soundcard box, and I don't believe it's going to change the sound THAT much.
> It does not come from the speakers, I have soundsticks II and they're already harsh but JBL duet are very soft and with the soundcard they become harsh as well and have far more highs. And it's the same for the big Ellipson's speakers :_(...
> 
> ...


 

 I had this exact issue with the 720s - the highs got really harsh and started to bother my ears.


----------



## raiser roofer

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Wow, is the Schiit Asgard that much better sounding then the STX's headphone amplifier?


 

 Yes.
   
  Anyone know how to get rid of computer noise from the RCA outputs?


----------



## ThibWay

Thank you very much for your reply. I should have known you'll recommand me other opamps and you're perfectly right to do it but I can't buy things like this just by listening to one person, maybe we don't have the same meaning of "big difference", what would be interesting however is if someone had Frequency graphs to show that a particular opamp reduces the highs etc - it may exist but I didn't see one .
   
  What I was waiting to read was something like "Opamps won't change much if you think Xonars have aggressive highs, you should probably buy an amplifier with integrated DAC etc...".
   
   
  But actually I discovered something meanwhile, I was very stupid not to think about it : So ok my computer makes much noise, alone it's ok but I think it's when I add the speakers the mix of the two is just unbearable for the ears xD.
  What I can try is deplacing my speakers to my central desk, sitting on the bed and control foobar with my laptop ^^, that way I'll be less disturbed by the noise and it'll be like listening to the MP3 player. Or maybe not... I have to copy my collection first then I can try it ^^.
  BUT I believe there are two problems that combine : the noise of the computer and the soundcard.
   
   
  However I know that the JBL duet have a special sound, the only other speakers I fell in love with are old HECO in an second-hand CD store (they were not as high as columns half highs I'd say but larger and higher than Soundsticks already). When I'll have my own appartment I'll definitely check this brand as well as big JBLs ^^. It's absurd to prefer 10cm speakers to 20cm speakers with subwoofer or big ones like the ellipson...
   
  EDIT : I read somewhere and that seemed pretty logical that agressive highs are due to a peak somewhere in the highs and you can actually see that in the frequency graph. 
  Shall I try 3 basics opamps again or still put only 1 or 2 LME49720NA and where  (I/V section, headphone out etc...) ?


----------



## ThibWay

(HALF OFF TOPIC POST)
   
  By the way as I'm thinking about it, I'd like to see what fanless or even mecanicless (without things turning I mean ) configuration you can obtain with ivy bridge and for what price.
  I love graphics as well, extremely well detailed games, but when you don't play it would be cool to have optimus technology to shut down those monstruous graphic cards... I read an article saying it might be implemented in the future on desktops PC.


----------



## vyyye

Quick question, got the Essence ST with Foobar2000 and changed to WASAPI output. Should I use "WASAPI: SPeakers (ASUS Xonar...)" in the Device options? Using headphones but that one seemed most applicable.


----------



## fufula

That's just what the default analog output for whatever sound card you use is called in Windows 7.
   
  You can right click the speaker icon in the tray, go into playback devices, double click Speakers (or right click and choose properties) and rename it to whatever you like.


----------



## vyyye

Ah I see, thank you.


----------



## ale14

hey guys as u know im using 2 channel setup using foobar and stx as source
  and today i was listening some music and i played with foobar dsp and just out of fun i acivated (convert stereo to 4 channels)
  in drivers i have default 2 channels hi-fi mode etc.
  And when i selected that "thing" i was like What... so much "bigger sound" coming from speakers bass is much more present
  and sound is a bit louder too so i thought thats the reason for "bigger sound" but then i deactivated (back to 2 channel i quess)
  and put more volume on my amp but still didnt hear that "big sound" i mean bass is just amazing usind convert to 4 channels
  so any 1 with similar setup with 2 channels ( i dont have subwofer) can try this and report what u think .
  i really dont know how that works but sound is better i think and i really hate all other dps things tho


----------



## tofu

yeah whats' the deal with this?  i'm getting massive amounts of interference from my videocard and i have taken all of the trouble shooting steps, including making an extra EMI shield from aluminum foil and cardboard.  i'm about to RMA this card. 
   
   
  Quote: 





raiser roofer said:


> Is the RCA output unshielded?? I have a Schiit Asgard amp plugged into my STX, and I can hear either processor or disk noise, similar when plugging headphones directly into an unshielded laptop output.
> 
> I know it's not the amp, because the noise only happens when I make an action on the computer, and adjusting the volume even to 0 on both the amp and the computer still produces the noise at the same volume.
> 
> It's probably too quiet to hear if you're using full sized headphones, but on IEMs it's incredibly noticeable, and very distracting when playing some games.


----------



## Pudu

Is your front panel audio enabled? If so disable it and see if that helps.


----------



## tofu

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Is your front panel audio enabled? If so disable it and see if that helps.


 


  everything disabled


----------



## Onaga

Guys, what Gain recommend for the ATH-M50?
   
  Normal Gain? o Hiight Gain its ok?
[size=medium]  [/size]    [size=medium]  [/size] [size=medium]  [/size]


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





onaga said:


> Guys, what Gain recommend for the ATH-M50?
> 
> Normal Gain? o Hiight Gain its ok?


 

 Not high Ohm headphone, so normal gain.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





onaga said:


> Guys, what Gain recommend for the ATH-M50?
> 
> Normal Gain? o Hiight Gain its ok?


 

 Whatever you get enough volume with. The lower gain setting the better.
   
  PurpleAngel, impedance doesn't matter here. Those are just recommended ranges. They mean nothing. Same with published specs like "16-600 ohms".


----------



## Onaga

With Normal Gain l set de master volumen to 80-100% to get good detail sound quality.
   
  otherwise, with Hight Gain the volume es set to 50% and its a bit loud, i dont know if its a "placebo" but l notice more detail in Normal Gain with vol in 80-100%
   
  this settings really make any impact in sound quality?


----------



## Head Injury

Higher gain settings may potentially introduce more harmonic distortion, not a good thing.
   
  Also that is really loud. Do you use ReplayGain or any form of additional digital volume control?


----------



## Onaga

nope, l only use foober with WASAPI, all the control is with Xonar Master Volumen.
   
  l think i will keep with Normal Gain settings, dont know why need high values in the control panel(with movies or games sometime i put 100% with no differences), but the muisc sound fantastic.
   
  also sorry for bad english, im from Spain


----------



## Head Injury

If you listen for any extended length of time, I suggest you turn the volume down. Judging by my own volume settings, you're looking at 100 dB for loud songs.


----------



## sugedf

I was thinking about upgrading from my Revo 5.1 for quality and for Dolby Headphone.
   
  Currently i'm using 3 outputs simultaneously; digital to my speakers, line out to LD MKII and the headphone out. Using a switch to choose if the headphones are fed by the LD or by the Revos headphone amp because i don't want to torture the tubes for gaming.  Can the STX pull this off? I don't want to go to a control panel to choose the output to use, ever.
   
  How would the default volume control in Win7 work? With the Revo it's perfect, digital out always stays at max and the single slider affects both line and headphone out.
   
  How does Dolby Headphone exactly work with this? Could i just keep it constantly enabled without it interfering with stereo content?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sugedf said:


> I was thinking about upgrading from my Revo 5.1 for quality and for Dolby Headphone.
> Currently i'm using 3 outputs simultaneously; digital to my speakers, line out to LD MKII and the headphone out. Using a switch to choose if the headphones are fed by the LD or by the Revos headphone amp because i don't want to torture the tubes for gaming.  Can the STX pull this off? I don't want to go to a control panel to choose the output to use, ever.
> How would the default volume control in Win7 work? With the Revo it's perfect, digital out always stays at max and the single slider affects both line and headphone out.
> How does Dolby Headphone exactly work with this? Could i just keep it constantly enabled without it interfering with stereo content?


 
  The Essence STX can not output through the RCAs and headphone(s) jacks at the same time and needs to be switched in control panel.
  The Essence STX can not do Dolby Headphone through the RCAs outputs (just Dolby Virtual Speaker) and RCAs only outputs 2.0 channel, not true 5.1.
  I believe the digital output is always on, but I do not have my Essence STX manual handy to check.


----------



## sugedf

I read the manual over at the internets and digital does mute the analog outputs  Damn.
   
  It'd be OK if you could create profiles and shortcuts to them.. jumping in and out of the CP would get too annoying for me in the long run.
   
   
  I'm screwed when the Revo dies, or when i run out of luck with the beta Vista 64 drivers.


----------



## Onaga

hi, another questions...
   
  Should l put the mixer volumen in max(100%) to get all the sound manege by the master volumen panel?
   
  or should a leave in default(70%)?
   
  thanks!


----------



## ohaider

I usually listen to my HD650 at about 8-12% master volume with high gain. I'm assuming that's actually really low then.....


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





onaga said:


> hi, another questions...
> 
> Should l put the mixer volumen in max(100%) to get all the sound manege by the master volumen panel?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would keep them at default. I'm not sure why they don't default to max. It may be that the default is 0 dBFS, and any higher can cause clipping. If that's the case, it would be stupid of them to set 0 dBFS at ~75%.
   
  Quote: 





ohaider said:


> I usually listen to my HD650 at about 8-12% master volume with high gain. I'm assuming that's actually really low then.....


 

 Yeah, that seems alright. After accounting for loss of voltage from output impedance, I'd estimate the LCD-2 and HD650 needs about the same volume setting. You're listening about as loud as me if you aren't using ReplayGain. If you are, you can turn it up a bit and still be safe probably.


----------



## ohaider

Quote: 





head injury said:


> I would keep them at default. I'm not sure why they don't default to max. It may be that the default is 0 dBFS, and any higher can cause clipping. If that's the case, it would be stupid of them to set 0 dBFS at ~75%.
> 
> 
> Yeah, that seems alright. After accounting for loss of voltage from output impedance, I'd estimate the LCD-2 and HD650 needs about the same volume setting. You're listening about as loud as me if you aren't using ReplayGain. If you are, you can turn it up a bit and still be safe probably.


 

 Ah, that's good. At times I worry that I'm listening too loud. I'm not using ReplayGain, either.


----------



## lepoulpy

I started to read the 43 first page... I am definitively too lazy
   
  but what about a LME49990 with this card ? somebody tryed ?


----------



## mowglycdb

Recently I just got me a Xonar Essence ST and I was thinking about getting replacing some opamps...   I've read a lot and I'm still confused.
   
   
  Is  ¿1 LME49710HA(x2) in the buffer  and the stock JRC I/V compatible?
   
  Anyone tried the combination   LME49710HA (x2) in the buffer and  2x LME49720HA in the I/V  (  I've heared that the trebles are very agressive with 3x lme497*0)
   
  I'm looking for stereo separation making it easy to hear all instruments at the same time , soundstage and clarity,  tight bass ( doesn't have to be that loud )    I'm missing the stereo separation that I had when I moded my X-fi prelude with a OPA627AU
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## sugedf

Broke down and got the ST anyway, sounds amazing.
   
  Just saw some discussion about a screeching issue though (http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&id=20090222084608127), any final word on what causes this and how to prevent?  Haven't got it yet listening for 2 days, but i'm a bit scared of it now :I
   
  "I didn't even have it turned up very loud. The tone itself was probably the loudest thing I've ever heard in my life, and I've been to some punk concerts."


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lepoulpy said:


> I started to read the 43 first page... I am definitively too lazy
> but what about a LME49990 with this card ? somebody tryed ?


 

 I've been tempted, but waiting for a good deal on eBay.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> Recently I just got me a Xonar Essence ST and I was thinking about getting replacing some opamps...   I've read a lot and I'm still confused.
> Is  ¿1 LME49710HA(x2) in the buffer  and the stock JRC I/V compatible?
> Anyone tried the combination   LME49710HA (x2) in the buffer and  2x LME49720HA in the I/V  (  I've heared that the trebles are very agressive with 3x lme497*0)
> I'm looking for stereo separation making it easy to hear all instruments at the same time , soundstage and clarity,  tight bass ( doesn't have to be that loud )    I'm missing the stereo separation that I had when I moded my X-fi prelude with a OPA627AU
> Thanks in advance.


 

 I use 3 LME49860NAs, I like the sound, t
  The LME49860NAs are just the cherry picks (wider voltage) of the LME49730NAs.


----------



## mowglycdb

Damn I fried the OPA627AU  <.<
   
  Is there any place where you can see in which orientation you have to put  the opamps   example:  OPA627AU, LME49710HA ? 
   
  looked a while and couldn't get it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> Damn I fried the OPA627AU  <.<
> Is there any place where you can see in which orientation you have to put  the opamps   example:  OPA627AU, LME49710HA ?
> looked a while and couldn't get it.


 
  There is usually a notch on one end of the chip.


----------



## mowglycdb

The OPA627AU ended up conected sideways so I didn't know which orientation it should take.


----------



## Dreamaurora

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> The OPA627AU ended up conected sideways so I didn't know which orientation it should take.


 


  I thought you need to use a single to dual adapter when using OPA627AU? My current opamp config in STX is 4 OPA627AU + 1 default JRC2114. I would have loved to use six OPA627AU, but I can't fit two adapters at the I/V, so I leave one of the default opamp there. And wow, the sound definitely becomes cleaner and musical.


----------



## mowglycdb

that's exactly why dreamaurora,  it was on a adapter .
   
  Purple Angel
   
   
  ¿LME49860NA  or LME49720HA  or  LME49710HA ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> that's exactly why dreamaurora,  it was on a adapter .
> 
> Purple Angel
> 
> ...


 
  I'm in no way a op-amp expert.
   
  I just went with the LME49860NAs because they are DIP-8 and easy to install.
  The LME49710HAs might sound the best, but there is more work involved.


----------



## Dreamaurora

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> that's exactly why dreamaurora,  it was on a adapter .
> 
> Purple Angel
> 
> ...


 

 Actually its quite easy to orientate. Just make sure the U shape on the opamps and the U shape on the opamp socket at the card match orientation. Maybe can try LME49860, heard very good things about it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dreamaurora said:


> Actually its quite easy to orientate. Just make sure the U shape on the opamps and the U shape on the opamp socket at the card match orientation. Maybe can try LME49860, heard very good things about it.


 

 I think the mark on the PCB is V shaped, not U shaped, but I'm not about ready to pull my STX to check.


----------



## Dreamaurora

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I think the mark on the PCB is V shaped, not U shaped, but I'm not about ready to pull my STX to check.


 


  I am quite positive its U shaped. Maybe to you it looks like a V. In any case only one side of the socket has this shape. You should try OPA627, its pricey (I think I spent approximately $93 USD for 4 OPA627AU and 2 adapters) and a little bit more hassle, but you should be able to find an electronics shop willing to do the soldering for you. The sound improvement is very noticeable, especially the bass and the soundstage.


----------



## mowglycdb

Okay I bought 3 x LME49860NA, Thank you.
   
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm in no way a op-amp expert.
> 
> I just went with the LME49860NAs because they are DIP-8 and easy to install.
> The LME49710HAs might sound the best, but there is more work involved.


----------



## Halk

Maybe I'm missing something here... I have the card (Xonar Essence STX) connected by an optical cable to my AVR (Onkyo 609) in my living room.
   
  I'd very much like it to output the PCM audio stream from mp3 audio books, as I believe the Audyssey built into the AVR will have the best effect on this. However I only seem to be able to output Dolby Digital. If I enable SPDIF output and Dolby Digital Live then the sound goes to the AVR, if I switch to PCM then it doesn't send it SPDIF but instead sends it to headphones.
   
  Is this a limitation of the card?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





halk said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here... I have the card (Xonar Essence STX) connected by an optical cable to my AVR (Onkyo 609) in my living room.
> 
> I'd very much like it to output the PCM audio stream from mp3 audio books, as I believe the Audyssey built into the AVR will have the best effect on this. However I only seem to be able to output Dolby Digital. If I enable SPDIF output and Dolby Digital Live then the sound goes to the AVR, if I switch to PCM then it doesn't send it SPDIF but instead sends it to headphones.
> 
> Is this a limitation of the card?


 

 Set S/Pdif output in the windows control panel instead of the card and see if that does the trick.
  on a side note, Have you tried connecting your receiver to the card through analog?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





halk said:


> Maybe I'm missing something here... I have the card (Xonar Essence STX) connected by an optical cable to my AVR (Onkyo 609) in my living room.
> I'd very much like it to output the PCM audio stream from mp3 audio books, as I believe the Audyssey built into the AVR will have the best effect on this. However I only seem to be able to output Dolby Digital. If I enable SPDIF output and Dolby Digital Live then the sound goes to the AVR, if I switch to PCM then it doesn't send it SPDIF but instead sends it to headphones.
> Is this a limitation of the card?


----------



## Halk

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Set S/Pdif output in the windows control panel instead of the card and see if that does the trick.
> on a side note, Have you tried connecting your receiver to the card through analog?


 

 Edit : The only option in control panel is the S/PDIF passthrough, which is a header on the card. I have no way to connect it to either my motherboard or graphics card as neither have an input.
   
  I have not tried analogue. I have it connected by HDMI to my graphics card, which has a very simple soundcard - it's fine for sending DTS/DD which is encoded into files, or simple stereo from files, but not so good for games.
   
  What kind of analog connection would I use? I'm limited in that the receiver is in another room, and I only have put USB, HDMI, cat6 and optical through the wall and under the carpet.
   
  I suspect the easiest thing to do here would be to retire the Essence STX and replace it with a gaming soundcard with an optical output - assuming one would output sound properly, and would passthrough DTS, DD and PCM while still doing EAX etc. The STX was great when I used earphones or headphones, however now I have my own place I don't need to worry about noise so I can use the speakers and AVR.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I am referring to the Windows audio control panels within the main system control panel.
  is that where you are looking?  The STX can output both normal digital or encoded DDL so you have to find the settings.  It's been a long time since I used that card, so I am working from memory.


----------



## Halk

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I am referring to the Windows audio control panels within the main system control panel.
> is that where you are looking?  The STX can output both normal digital or encoded DDL so you have to find the settings.  It's been a long time since I used that card, so I am working from memory.


 


  That's where I'm looking. The option is only for speakers, HDMI on the graphics card or S/PDIF passthrough. Essentially I have to pick the Xonar Essence as a device and then from the Xonar Essence control panel I select where the sound is to go from 2 speakers, headphones, FP headphones, optical. When I select optical it only sends if I select DD.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





halk said:


> That's where I'm looking. The option is only for speakers, HDMI on the graphics card or S/PDIF passthrough. Essentially I have to pick the Xonar Essence as a device and then from the Xonar Essence control panel I select where the sound is to go from 2 speakers, headphones, FP headphones, optical. When I select optical it only sends if I select DD.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





halk said:


> That's where I'm looking. The option is only for speakers, HDMI on the graphics card or S/PDIF passthrough. Essentially I have to pick the Xonar Essence as a device and then from the Xonar Essence control panel I select where the sound is to go from 2 speakers, headphones, FP headphones, optical. When I select optical it only sends if I select DD.


 

 That's strange.  The card should have no issue sending normal PCM digital out through S/Pdif.
  There is a setting issue somewhere.  What if you select passthrough, what does your receiver show?
   
  @Purple, PCM is plain/normal digital audio, DD is encoded surround sound and not really the same thing.
  If the card encodes to DDL then you are sending a 5.1 signal with only 2 channels.  Not to mention DDL is a lossy compression as it encodes a full 6 channels instead of the normal 2.0 for PCM audio.


----------



## Halk

The sound card can't handle DTS because it tries to decode and then encode to DD. It also outputs 5.1 DD no matter what the source unless I leave the living room and change the Xonar control panel settings each time I change media. What I have at the moment is probably the best compromise, I've since found out that optical is a dead end in comparison to HDMI and eventually as bitrates increase optical will go out. 
   
  So for now everything will go HDMI and games will go optical. Eventually when I put an HTPC in the living room and stop using the main PC as an HTPC things will become simlper too. At that point I can decide if it's worth replacing the STX for a card more geared at gaming. I'm not convinced that EAX 5 is worth going for right now.
   
  When I select passthrough the receiver shows no input - there isn't any input, the passthrough isn't connected to anything. I cannot get anything but DDL on optical. If I make the single change from DDL to PCM it routes audio to speakers and not optical.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





halk said:


> The sound card can't handle DTS because it tries to decode and then encode to DD. It also outputs 5.1 DD no matter what the source unless I leave the living room and change the Xonar control panel settings each time I change media. What I have at the moment is probably the best compromise, I've since found out that optical is a dead end in comparison to HDMI and eventually as bitrates increase optical will go out.
> 
> So for now everything will go HDMI and games will go optical. Eventually when I put an HTPC in the living room and stop using the main PC as an HTPC things will become simlper too. At that point I can decide if it's worth replacing the STX for a card more geared at gaming. I'm not convinced that EAX 5 is worth going for right now.
> 
> When I select passthrough the receiver shows no input - there isn't any input, the passthrough isn't connected to anything. I cannot get anything but DDL on optical. If I make the single change from DDL to PCM it routes audio to speakers and not optical.


 
  I think you have a driver issue somewhere.


----------



## Halk

What limitation do you suspect is being caused by a driver issue? At this point I think I understand everything about the cards limit and I don't think there is any driver issue.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





halk said:


> What limitation do you suspect is being caused by a driver issue? At this point I think I understand everything about the cards limit and I don't think there is any driver issue.


 

 As far as I know that card outputs normal PCM audio, so if yours doesn't then I suspect an issue with the driver.
  It has been quite awhile since I tested or used that card but IIRC, it outputs normal PCM as that is not even a special feature
  just a requisite feature for cards with S/Pdif output. 
   
  Specs:
   
*S/PDIF Digital Output:*
 44.1K/48K/96K/192KHz @ 16/24bit, Dolby Digital 
   
  The first part of the spec signifies normal PCM output and the second part the encoding, IIRC, it is not bit depth, frequency switchable because it is a lossy compression.
   
  Hope that helps.
   
  Edit, do you have the internal STX S/Pdif header connected to your video card?


----------



## KalumenDNar

OK...
   
   I replaced the JRc's with AD823 and for the RCA output I added 1 LME49860NA.
   
  here are just first impresions, after about 30 min of listelning, i will reply again once they have burned-in
   
  The separation between left and right is much better and I can hear better from where the sound is coming.
   
  The sound is no longer sterile on my home-studio monitors.
   
  THe sound on the headphones sounds also more alive.
   
  I do not feel the same kick I feel on sondcards like Onboard Realtek HD( I like that kick in rock music, though detail is lost when compared to the xonar stx with these opamp)
   
  It diserved to change the initial opamps, there is a clear difference(for the best in my case) but After about 100Hrs of burn In I will post again. Staisfied at this moment with the


----------



## Super_Guy

Hi I need advise picking a Dac that fits me.

 My main system is rega brio r, dali zensor 7 and a modded x-fi music lm4568 i think and filter mod.

 Now my problem is that the sound is harsh (voices easily get sss) and the music lacks substance, I do got very great details and wide soundstage. My question is what would be the best pick, a Essence st with neutral opamps and decup output capasitors?? Help appreciate.


----------



## anddy78

Hello folks, today I solder 6 1N5314 CLD's in my Xonar ST to bias the opamps in to class "A", the result till now with my K701 is that everithing it's now bassier, in a good way, now it has a better punch and the treble is less harsh, but the ss is smaller. I'm using 3xLME49720HA.


----------



## jehugo

After playing around a bit I think I'm settled with x2 LME49760na and 1x Opa2107ap
   
  I like the detail over 3x LME49760na
   
  Switching between hd 595s and Grado 325is I find the clarity and separation to be great. I think the 2107 expands and tightens up the bass just a bit to round out the sound.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jehugo said:


> After playing around a bit I think I'm settled with x2 LME49760na and 1x Opa2107ap
> I like the detail over 3x LME49760na
> Switching between hd 595s and Grado 325is I find the clarity and separation to be great. I think the 2107 expands and tightens up the bass just a bit to round out the sound.


 
  What is the difference between the LME49760NA and the LME49720NA (and LME49860NA)?


----------



## jehugo

Whoa apologies!  
  I meant LME 49860na


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jehugo said:


> After playing around a bit I think I'm settled with x2 LME49760na and 1x Opa2107ap
> I like the detail over 3x LME49760na
> Switching between hd 595s and Grado 325is I find the clarity and separation to be great. I think the 2107 expands and tightens up the bass just a bit to round out the sound.


 
  I use 3X LME49860NAs, might get one Opa2107ap for the buffer,
  So you like the Opa2107ap over the LME49860NA?
  Where did you buy the Opa2107ap?


----------



## jehugo

The 3x 49860 were very good but I felt lacking a bit of clarity in the bottom end. The 2107 tightened the bass and added separation. 
   
  However your phones (hd650?) might not need it....
   
  I got the 2107  off eBay for about$10 
   
  Also interested in trying OPA627 in th buffer


----------



## alphaman

See my recent post on the Xonar here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/463009/asus-xonar-hdav-1-3-deluxe-op-amps/15#post_7947990
*Summary:*
_Opamps:_
*I/V*: AD825 (you'll need 4 of them, and use an adapter to combine pairs. No other mods needed to stock ckt (as in the case of LM6172)!). The AD825s are SOIC only, but the Brown Dog adptr nicely works; *output*: LT1028 (these are single ch., so you'll need two and an adapter)
_Other tweaks:_
  Remove the output caps and replace with 5-10-ohm resistors (this is the signal path so use v. HQ metal audio Rs, e.g. from Takman, etc., if possible). Bypass opamp Vdd pin electro caps with 100nF (film or ceramic), on solder side of PCB.


----------



## Armotekma

I figured in the holiday spirit I should gift myself some new toys, I've got Senn 558s right now, mainly looking for something to really give them a kick in the pants. Xonar STX pops up everywhere being a better DAC than the E7/E9 combo, so is it really worth $170?


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





armotekma said:


> I figured in the holiday spirit I should gift myself some new toys, I've got Senn 558s right now, mainly looking for something to really give them a kick in the pants. Xonar STX pops up everywhere being a better DAC than the E7/E9 combo, so is it really worth $170?


 


  Yes.
  Get the ST for the better clock.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





armotekma said:


> I figured in the holiday spirit I should gift myself some new toys, I've got Senn 558s right now, mainly looking for something to really give them a kick in the pants. Xonar STX pops up everywhere being a better DAC than the E7/E9 combo, so is it really worth $170?


 

 if you plan on upgrading the three op-amps (operational amplifiers), might as well get a used one.


----------



## Armotekma

You've got 558s I see, in your opinion, what opamps work best with them? I know you can't tell me what will sound best because everybody has different musical taste but I just want to keep them open for all genres (I listen to almost everything, Metal, Rock, Electronic, Alternative)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





armotekma said:


> You've got 558s I see, in your opinion, what opamps work best with them? I know you can't tell me what will sound best because everybody has different musical taste but I just want to keep them open for all genres (I listen to almost everything, Metal, Rock, Electronic, Alternative)


 

 I went with 3 x LME49860NAs because it was the safe option.
  The factory buffer op-amp is the LM4562NA, which renamed the LME49720NA, the cherry picks (better voltage range) of the LME49720NA are renamed LME49860NA.
  The better upgrade op-amps are the AD797, they are considered finicky op-amps, but I believe they work well with the Xonar Essence.
   
  Thread for more info on op-amps
  "The op-amp thread"
   
  I would say to get the STX, not the ST (which is PCI), the STX is cheaper and as it's PCI-Express, so more future proof.


----------



## Muffinator

My Essence ST FINALLY came into my ownership today after pining for it since July.
  It was my birthday present, so my family was gathered around while I opened it, and
  everyone but my dad thinks I'm a complete nerd now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  At the last minute I decided to go with 3x LME49860NA, since that was the easiest thing.
  I didn't even bother with the stock op-amps. The first thing I noticed after managing to get the card
  and op-amps out of the packaging was how _small_ they were. Perhaps I stared at product photos a bit
  too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  At the moment the only thing I've listened to with it is Moving Pictures, and I haven't played games
  with it or anything, so my impressions may likely change a bit later on. So far I've been enjoying this
  card very very much. It's difficult to describe, but I suppose you could say everything sounds more 'open'.
  Moving Pictures sounded comparatively 'squashed' on my onboard. With the Essence, everything
  sounds much more distinct and clear, and the music dances around inside my head more compared
  with the onboard concentrating everything into pretty much one spot. Geddy Lee actually sounds
  human to me now, and instruments sound like actual _instruments_ instead of just notes. For the first time
  my HD 555 feels satisfying in the lower octaves without needing to crank the volume up. Neil Peart's drums
  in Witch Hunt have a much 'bigger' sound, with more impact and authority, and they don't sound harsh in
  Red Barchetta anymore.
   
  The soft-loud dynamic contrast has improved _immensely_. I always thought the drums in the intro to
  The Camera Eye were the same volume all through the intro, so I was surprised to hear them start
  very soft and slowly get louder and louder. That kind of thing didn't happen only once, either.
  The Essence also seems more revealing than my onboard. My friend once told me that the intro
  to The Camera Eye sounded like it was played on a two dollar keyboard. I've never agreed with him
  until today.
   
  One thing I think has improved most strikingly is the treble. It seems much more_ _present now, and I
  noticed cymbals I'd never heard before multiple times. The triangle intro and bottles breaking in YYZ
  felt much more realistic, and cymbals all throughout the album are absolutely joyous to listen to.
   
  It's probably not fair for me to write my complete impressions right at the moment, since I've had about
  40 minutes with the Essence ST. I'm only one album into my library, but that being said I'm already
_very_ pleased.


----------



## Muffinator

I decided to have some fun with the Essence by having a listen to some of my old Nightwish albums.
  Now, Beauty of the Beast (Century Child, track 10) sounded just fine back when I used onboard and
  didn't know about classic rock. I did have a small feeling that it was an iffy recording, but what I heard
  through the Essence caught me completely by surprise. It sounded like _absolute *crap*._
   
  The rhythm guitar was like a disgusting slurry of pure, unadulterated distortion so potent it spilled over
  into the midrange, coloring the already horrendously recorded strings and vocals. I was so shocked by
  the flagrant atrocity of it all I went back and played Tom Sawyer to make sure my sound card hadn't magically
  broken. The gleeful destruction of all my Nightwish CDs soon followed.


----------



## jehugo

I picked up a couple ADs and another OPA. Gonna try each in a CMOY and decide if i want to try them in the STX (such a pain to rip out there card to audition  )


----------



## jehugo

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The factory buffer op-amp is the LM4562NA, which renamed the LME49720NA, the cherry picks (better voltage range) of the LME49720NA are renamed LME49860NA.
> The better upgrade op-amps are the AD797, they are considered finicky op-amps, but I believe they work well with the Xonar Essence.


 


  I thought the stock amps in all slots were * **JRC211?*


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jehugo said:


> I thought the stock amps in all slots were * **JRC211?*


 

 The JRC2114 are what comes in the two I/V slots.
  The buffer is one LM4562NA.


----------



## loftystew

Recently bought an essence stx and started to swap op amps too. I'm very new to this.
   
  One question though - Do the two op amp used in I/V have to be the identical? Can I put different ones in it?
   
  If yes, should I do it?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





loftystew said:


> Recently bought an essence stx and started to swap op amps too. I'm very new to this.
> 
> One question though - Do the two op amp used in I/V have to be the identical? Can I put different ones in it?
> 
> If yes, should I do it?


 

 The I/V opamps have the be identical because you have 1 amp for the left channel and 1 amp for the right channel.


----------



## Armotekma

A quick question, I've looked at the impedance chart for the 558s;
   

   
  I get good volume with normal gain, but should it be set to High Gain because of their spiked impedance?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





armotekma said:


> A quick question, I've looked at the impedance chart for the 558s;
> 
> 
> 
> I get good volume with normal gain, but should it be set to High Gain because of their spiked impedance?


 


 If you are getting more than adaquate volume at the normal gain setting I would leave it there. The impedance peak is due to the resonance of the drivers back side port (small hole in the damping pad at the back of the driver). The driver is likely most efficient at the frequency due to this resonance.Changing the "GAIN SETTING" on the ST/STX card does nothing more than digitally increase the volume potential. There is no change in output impedance or actual gain of the amp itself. Output impedance remains at 10ohms.


----------



## jehugo

OK! opa 637AP in the buffer.
   
  Super punchy, tight bass. Bass hits never seem to get lost. 
   
  I like the balance between it and the 2 LME49860NAs. Nice detail.
   
  I like this combo a lot with my Grado 325is. Undecided on my 595s


----------



## Phero

Although this sound card supports impedance up to 600Ohms would it be a good DAC to pair with a higher end headphone amplifier? I was thinking of getting a Schiit Valhalla with an STX.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





phero said:


> Although this sound cards supports impedance up to 600Ohms would it be a good DAC to pair with a higher end headphone amplifier? I was thinking of getting a Schiit Valhalla with an STX.


 

 I would "guess" yes.
  Someone else used the Schiit Asguard with the STX and liked the combo.


----------



## PelPix

Woah.  Weird!
  I adapted the RCA outs DIRECTLY to a TRS and plugged my 880/600's into it and it drives it to like 120dB.  Why does this card even have a HPA?!


----------



## Psyside

Ok guys few questions for a future owner of STX, this thread is too long to find the exact answers for all of this questions, i know there is guide in the first page, but the original post is kinda old, so i will just make sure and ask again, to chek if the settings are still good to go.
   
  1. What settings should i chose in the Asus Audio centar? Hi-Fi mode? should i ever bother with 44/96/192khz if i have songs in that resoloution? If thats the case, what setting should i use in Windows playback device options, do they have to be same?
   
  2. I heard that with soundcard better drivers offer better sound quallity, is this true? and what drivers are least glitchy? what version should i use, Uni vs Asus?
   
  3. The gain for the HD595 should be 0- 64 right?
   
  4. Aimp3 - Wasapi, better then ASIO regarding sound quallity?
   
  5. Any other suggestions of good setup?
   
  6. Max volume trough windows, and audio/video players, and control the sound trough audio centar, right? or maybe 90% volume is good enough? 
   
  7. I got high end pc, and i game from time to time, i also have AMD 6970 video card (most of the time overclocked quite a bit) and fan @ like 60% during games, and 35% during idle, so i got this idea to install the sound card as far as it possible (last slot on the mobo) from the video card in order to avoid noise interference from the video card fan.... ( and get better/cleaner sound quallity) is this prefered or i should not worry at all? 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Ok guys few questions for a future owner of STX, this thread is too long to find the exact answers for all of this questions, i know there is guide in the first page, but the original post is kinda old, so i will just make sure and ask again, to chek if the settings are still good to go.
> 
> 1. What settings should i chose in the Asus Audio centar? Hi-Fi mode? should i ever bother with 44/96/192khz if i have songs in that resoloution? If thats the case, what setting should i use in Windows playback device options, do they have to be same?
> 
> ...


 

 1. HF mode is best for music. Set the sampling rate to whatever your music files are in (usually 44100 kHz), set it higher only if you're listening to stuff that's higher.
   
  2. Not always, should be never but there might be issues. I use ASUS official drivers, use something else if you have problems.
   
  3. The gain should be the lowest gain you can use and still get enough volume. That applies to all headphones. The ohm ratings are just recommended and mean absolutely nothing.
   
  4. I use WASAPI. Technically they should both sound exactly the same because they're both supposed to be bit-perfect, but WASAPI is easier to set up.
   
  5. No.
   
  6. That's usually how to do it, max in all volumes except the last one (in this case the ASUS volume). You should have no problem with that.
   
  7. The Essence STX is shielded against interference. That doesn't mean some won't get through, so if you can it probably won't hurt to keep it away from your graphics card and other components.
   



pelpix said:


> Woah.  Weird!
> I adapted the RCA outs DIRECTLY to a TRS and plugged my 880/600's into it and it drives it to like 120dB.  Why does this card even have a HPA?!


 

  The RCA out is 2.1 Vrms. However, because it's designed to be used connected to an amp, and amp line ins have high impedances of 10 kohms, it's probably not going to have a lot of current. That doesn't matter too much with 600 ohm headphones, which need more voltage than they do current. Line outs also have high output impedance, also no big deal for high impedance headphones. With low impedance headphones, you might have problems.
   
  Not likely it actually drives them to 120 dB by the way, that would require around 12 Vrms! But you're getting up to 105 dB which is plenty for most people.
   
  This applies to all DAC line outs, by the way.
   
  The STX amp, by the way, can manage 7 Vrms, and probably a lot more current.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Ok guys few questions for a future owner of STX, this thread is too long to find the exact answers for all of this questions, i know there is guide in the first page, but the original post is kinda old, so i will just make sure and ask again, to chek if the settings are still good to go.
> 1. What settings should i chose in the Asus Audio centar? Hi-Fi mode? should i ever bother with 44/96/192khz if i have songs in that resoloution? If thats the case, what setting should i use in Windows playback device options, do they have to be same?
> 2. I heard that with soundcard better drivers offer better sound quallity, is this true? and what drivers are least glitchy? what version should i use, Uni vs Asus?
> 3. The gain for the HD595 should be 0- 64 right?
> ...


 
  1, I just leave it in 96, would need to switch to 192 for full blu-ray audio.
  2. I use the Unified, does not cause any problems.
  3. yes, 0-64, the HD-595 is 50-Ohms.
  4. do not know
  5. nope
  6. that works for me
  7.keep the cards as far apart as possible.


----------



## Psyside

WOW, thanks alot guys! rep+ to both, this forum is great!


----------



## aleex

Regarding noise. I have my graphics card mounted fairly close to my STX. I have a pair of 250 Ohm DT990 Pros on High Gain in the STX Audio Center. I have my Windows volume at 50% because some stuff is just too loud otherwise, but also b/c noise becomes fairly noticeable at higher volumes. At 50%, it's vague, but it's still there and I clearly notice a difference if I toggle off/on. 
 Is this normal? Is it caused by the graphics card? Should I try a lower gain?

 I've tried some plugins for foobar, but I've formatted since and can't recall the difference.

 And just a little btw question, is it correct that the DAC is far better than the amp on this card? Or is that just exaggeration?


----------



## Deadeight

I have been looking into buying this, but have a question.
   
  In my PC, the place where I will mount it on the the motherboard will leave a 1cm gap below it where the 1kW PSU lies, and a 1cm gap above it where I have a 6950. Are these going to interfere with the card? This is a less than ideal position to mount it, but my only option. Are there metal components available to shield the electric field or something? 
   
  If this will cause an issue I will most likely pursue an external solution.
   
   
  Thanks in advance for any help and advice.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





deadeight said:


> I have been looking into buying this, but have a question.
> 
> In my PC, the place where I will mount it on the the motherboard will leave a 1cm gap below it where the 1kW PSU lies, and a 1cm gap above it where I have a 6950. Are these going to interfere with the card? This is a less than ideal position to mount it, but my only option. Are there metal components available to shield the electric field or something?
> 
> ...


 

 Hard to say, really. I have the same sort of setup, hugging my GPU and PSU, and I get no noise at all (this is with my computer taxed heavily all day, overclocked CPU and ~90% GPU usage at all times running Folding@Home). The poster above you appears to be getting noise. The card is shielded, and in the tests I've seen it displays less noise than a typical external component, but every computer is different.
   
  aleex, is this just a general background noise or is it interference that makes noise when you tax the computer, i.e. when you scroll a browser up and down?


----------



## aleex

I set my gain to the lowest, barely hear any noise at all now.
  It's general noise. It's present just right after and during playback of audio (video with audio, audio in foobar). It's probably normal, and it's not really of much annoyance now anyway.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





aleex said:


> I set my gain to the lowest, barely hear any noise at all now.
> It's general noise. It's present just right after and during playback of audio (video with audio, audio in foobar). It's probably normal, and it's not really of much annoyance now anyway.


 

 Probably amp trouble, not interference. Max Windows volume and turn the volume down on the card instead, see if that helps. Maxing digital volume maximizes signal-to-noise ratio. The amp amps whatever it's given, so if noise is high compared to the signal before the amp even touches it, it'll be high in the end too.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





head injury said:


> Probably amp trouble, not interference. Max Windows volume and turn the volume down on the card instead, see if that helps. Maxing digital volume maximizes signal-to-noise ratio. The amp amps whatever it's given, so if noise is high compared to the signal before the amp even touches it, it'll be high in the end too.


 


  There's a volume control for the card?!  Where?!


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> There's a volume control for the card?!  Where?!


 

 There's a knob in the audio center thing, above where you set the mode (Gaming, HF, etc) and to the right of where you set things like sampling rate, channels, and gain. That is, if you're using the ASUS drivers at least.


----------



## PelPix

That just moves the windows volume for me.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> That just moves the windows volume for me.


 

 This moves the Windows volume?


----------



## aleex

Isn't Mixer>Playback the card's volume?


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





head injury said:


> This moves the Windows volume?


 

 Yep!  Moving windows volume moves it as well!
  And no.  Mixer->Volume is not the card's volume.  It doesn't change the volume during ASIO playback, so it can't be anything but a digital volume control.


----------



## Head Injury

I suppose it is if it's set as your default device. I've had the Windows volume icon disabled for ages.
   
  Well, I guess that confirms my suspicion that the STX volume control is digital anyway. And that might explain why dropping to Low gain reduced the noise you heard, because it improved SNR.


----------



## PelPix

I don't hear any noise on Very High, though.  I don't know what his problem is.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Anyone using the OPA2107AP in the buffer?
  How do you like it?
  I'm currently using three LME49860NAs and thinking of replacing the buffer with the OPA2107AP.


----------



## PelPix

I wouldn't.


----------



## PurpleAngel

LME49990NA, anyone try these in their Essence STX or ST?


----------



## audioAl

I use Foobar w/ sox resampler to my Asus Xonar DS toslinked to my Yamaha HT 465 amp which has burr brown dac's for all channels. Asus rocks!


----------



## redrumy3

So my X-Fi Forte died and I had it over 2 years so warranty is up and I would have to pay to get it fixed so not even going to bother with that. And I was looking for sound card to get and lots of people recommend this card. I do a lot of gaming and watching movies on my pc and was wondering how this card is with gaming and movies.
   
  I use HD-555 with Zalman Mic for ventrilo etc, anyone have any problems at all while gaming, I mostly play Skyrim, BF3, Saints Row 3 etc basically all newer games and TF2 and CSS.
   
  I also saw Creative came out with new sound cards as well so I am not sure what to do. Going to continue reading through this thread.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





redrumy3 said:


> So my X-Fi Forte died and I had it over 2 years so warranty is up and I would have to pay to get it fixed so not even going to bother with that. And I was looking for sound card to get and lots of people recommend this card. I do a lot of gaming and watching movies on my pc and was wondering how this card is with gaming and movies.
> I use HD-555 with Zalman Mic for ventrilo etc, anyone have any problems at all while gaming, I mostly play Skyrim, BF3, Saints Row 3 etc basically all newer games and TF2 and CSS.
> I also saw Creative came out with new sound cards as well so I am not sure what to do. Going to continue reading through this thread.


 
  It appears the Titanium HD is a better sound card then the new Recon3D (PCI-Express).
  But gaming wise?
  Still to early to tell if the new Recon3D is a better gaming card, wish there were more reviews on it.


----------



## redrumy3

Yeah basically no reviews really on that card. So it's either this Asus card or Creative card but all I hear is creative drivers suck lol.
  
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> It appears the Titanium HD is a better sound card then the new Recon3D (PCI-Express).
> But gaming wise?
> Still to early to tell if the new Recon3D is a better gaming card, wish there were more reviews on it.


----------



## Head Injury

The HD555 is very sensitive to output impedance compared to other full-sized headphones. The Essence STX wouldn't be ideal for it. And it's easy to drive, so the Titanium HD should handle it. Plus the Titanium is better built for gaming.
   
  A general rule for computer equipment: All drivers suck. Some people have problems with ASUS drivers, some have problems with Creative drivers. Everyone complained about ATI drivers, but I only ever had problems with Nvidia drivers. Don't avoid a card just because some people say the drivers suck. It all depends on the computer and luck.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





redrumy3 said:


> Yeah basically no reviews really on that card. So it's either this Asus card or Creative card but all I hear is creative drivers suck lol.


 

 I'm a fan of the Xonar's, but the Creative cards are the better gaming cards (positional audio),
  I've heard that Creative Labs has a big influence on OpenAL.
  The Xonar drivers are very simple.
  I really do not see many Xonar owner complaining about gaming.


----------



## redrumy3

I know creative card would be better buy but I went from Xtremegamer to X-Fi Forte cause my xtremegamer would snap crackle and pop all the time. Forte was working amazing until it died. And I will be getting better headphones soon so I would most likely need an amp so I just don't know what to do lol :X
   
  Titanium HD is $150 and Asus would be $170 ugh not sure what to do


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





redrumy3 said:


> I know creative card would be better buy but I went from Xtremegamer to X-Fi Forte cause my xtremegamer would snap crackle and pop all the time. Forte was working amazing until it died. And I will be getting better headphones soon so I would most likely need an amp so I just don't know what to do lol :X
> Titanium HD is $150 and Asus would be $170 ugh not sure what to do


 

 The Titanium HD does not come with a dedicated headphone amplifier, but seems to do a good job powering headphones with out one.
  Also you can hook up an external headphone amplifier and still use all the surround sound stuff.
  What headphones were you looking at?
   
  Sometimes the Titanium HD goes on sale with a mail in rebate, final price gets down to $100.


----------



## redrumy3

I was looking at HD 650 or HD 598 250-350 range for headphones.
  
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Titanium HD does not come with a dedicated headphone amplifier, but seems to do a good job powering headphones with out one.
> Also you can hook up an external headphone amplifier and still use all the surround sound stuff.
> What headphones were you looking at?
> 
> Sometimes the Titanium HD goes on sale with a mail in rebate, final price gets down to $100.


----------



## Head Injury

Essence STX for the HD650, Titanium HD for the HD598, provided the Titanium HD has low output impedance.
   
  If you don't know which headphone you want next, you may want to play it safe and get the Essence STX. It will drive any headphone you're looking at with ease, and while its output impedance is objectionable, it will only be a problem with very low impedance headphones or ones with wild impedance curves like the HD598/HD555.
   
  I wish I knew exactly how powerful the Titanium HD is, and what its specs really looked like.


----------



## redrumy3

Yeah I think I will get the Essence STX and if anything I could always return it for Titanium HD. Thanks going to order it now 
  
  Ordered from Newegg should come Wednesday
  Quote: 





head injury said:


> Essence STX for the HD650, Titanium HD for the HD598, provided the Titanium HD has low output impedance.
> 
> If you don't know which headphone you want next, you may want to play it safe and get the Essence STX. It will drive any headphone you're looking at with ease, and while its output impedance is objectionable, it will only be a problem with very low impedance headphones or ones with wild impedance curves like the HD598/HD555.
> 
> I wish I knew exactly how powerful the Titanium HD is, and what its specs really looked like.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





redrumy3 said:


> Yeah I think I will get the Essence STX and if anything I could always return it for Titanium HD. Thanks going to order it now
> Ordered from Newegg should come Wednesday


 
  A third party (BrainBit) makes the "Unified Xonar Drivers", I use it and it does not cause me any problems.


----------



## verde57

I've got rid of the 2 output caps and...
  Why should I put resistors instead of living  the ST without anything in there place??


----------



## aleex

Think this was brought up in this or another thread, but if my DT990 Pro 250 Ohm have a decent volume at Normal Gain, there's no real reason to select a higher gain? I've experimented a bit with both (different Windows volumes, different volume in foobar/spotify etc), but I can't really say either one is better. Also, I often feel I listen at way too high volumes with High Gain, even if I have 50% in Windows or very low volume in foobar/spotify.
  Also, the noise is pretty much inaudible at 100% (windows) normal gain, and not so audible at 50% (windows) high gain.


----------



## IfIonlyknew

Do you know where I might find a set of upgrade Opa amps for the Essence STX
  Thanks   IfIonly


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ifionlyknew said:


> Do you know where I might find a set of upgrade Opa amps for the Essence STX
> Thanks   IfIonly


 
  You can get 4 LME49860NAs (DIP-8) op-amps off eBay for under $20.
  You only need 3, but nobody on eBay sells a three pack.


----------



## IfIonlyknew

I have been watching and haven't seen them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ifionlyknew said:


> I have been watching and haven't seen them.


 
  I just found 17 listings
   
  I used
   
  49860
   
  for the search.


----------



## Heimdallr

Hi all,
  i've just purchased this card and i am experiencing a very disturbing noise from my speakers, when i'm not playing anyting there is sometime a small screeching sound but it gets worse when i'm playing a game (with music i will have to test it better but it doesn't seem as bad), in fact i get a high background noise very audible e also quite annoying.
  I'm connecting a pair of Rokit RP5 G2 via RCA cables, i have put the card on the left side of my video card (i mean at the bottom, i have a Raven 02 and both the sound card and video card are mounted vertical), i could try changing the position or using shielded cables with an adapter to see if it helps.
  any thoughts?
   
  Also i've trying using foobar2000 with WASAPI plugin but every time i changed directory in windows explorer i got an extremily loud POP from my speakers so now i'm using the default audio playback driver.
   
  Thanks


----------



## mowglycdb

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
   
  Before I got the Xonar Essence I had a Auzentech Prelude 7.1,  and I had two outputs...   a 2.0 Edifier R1800TIII  and a 150W fosfogate subwoofer. 
   
  Now that I have the xonar essence I can't conect both to the sound card,  has anyone figured out a way to connect two outputs ?


----------



## Royal Amethyst

Quote: 





heimdallr said:


> Hi all,
> i've just purchased this card and i am experiencing a very disturbing noise from my speakers, when i'm not playing anyting there is sometime a small screeching sound but it gets worse when i'm playing a game (with music i will have to test it better but it doesn't seem as bad), in fact i get a high background noise very audible e also quite annoying.
> I'm connecting a pair of Rokit RP5 G2 via RCA cables, i have put the card on the left side of my video card (i mean at the bottom, i have a Raven 02 and both the sound card and video card are mounted vertical), i could try changing the position or using shielded cables with an adapter to see if it helps.
> any thoughts?
> ...


 

 Did you remember to disable your onboard sound device in your BIO, and uninstall any drivers from other sound devices and cards?


----------



## PelPix

Alright, guys and girls.  Is there a mod to lower the line level on my ST?  It's +8dBu and it's causing my amp to clip!


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> Alright, guys and girls.  Is there a mod to lower the line level on my ST?  It's +8dBu and it's causing my amp to clip!


 


  What do you mean? Is the output volume of your ST too loud or...?


----------



## stv014

Quote:


pelpix said:


> Alright, guys and girls.  Is there a mod to lower the line level on my ST?  It's +8dBu and it's causing my amp to clip!


 

 Is it not possible to change the line output level in the mixer with any of the volume controls ? If you cannot reduce it using software only, then building a simple adapter that divides the voltage using resistors would fix the problem. Or, if you do not actually need the headphone amplifier of the card, and want to use an external amplifier only, then getting a D2X instead (line outputs only, but also good DAC, and 7.1 channels) may also be an option.


----------



## derbigpr

Guys, is there a way to connect the ST with a dedicated headphone amplifier, but still have an ability to use different dolby modes, apart from just the stereo mode available when connecting the card and amp trough RCA's?
   
  Is it possible to use the 6,3mm headphone output on the card and run the cable from that output into the headphone amplifier? Or is it possible to do it only trough RCA's?


----------



## stv014

Of course, you can use the headphone output as if it was a line output, at the cost of slight reduction in sound quality. Also, make sure that the output level is not too high, some amplifiers may not like a 20 Vpp signal on their line input.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Of course, you can use the headphone output as if it was a line output, at the cost of slight reduction in sound quality. Also, make sure that the output level is not too high, some amplifiers may not like a 20 Vpp signal on their line input.


 


  Why reduction in sound quality? Because the signal goes trough DAC and trough headphone amp, instead of just straight out of DAC?  Would the reduction in sound quality be major or is the just the difference between 124db (RCA) vs 118db (headphone out) SNR?
   
  I'm about to get that card, and it would be a deal-breaker for me if I couldnt use dolby headphone modes with external amp, which is apparently not possible trough RCA's.


----------



## Head Injury

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Why reduction in sound quality? Because the signal goes trough DAC and trough headphone amp, instead of just straight out of DAC?  Would the reduction in sound quality be major or is the just the difference between 124db (RCA) vs 118db (headphone out) SNR?
> 
> I'm about to get that card, and it would be a deal-breaker for me if I couldnt use dolby headphone modes with external amp, which is apparently not possible trough RCA's.


 

 Basically everything the amp does, will go to the external amp. So you're doubling (approximately) distortion, noise, any phase issues or other issues, etc.
   
  Why do you need an external amp?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





head injury said:


> Basically everything the amp does, will go to the external amp. So you're doubling (approximately) distortion, noise, any phase issues or other issues, etc.
> 
> Why do you need an external amp?


 


  I'm not sure yet I'll need the external amp, but i think my external amp is probably better than the one inside the STX, its Little Dot Mk5. Also, I don't like controlling volume in windows, would rather have a real volume knob. And the fact that in order to unplug or plug in headphones (and i have many of them) would be a pain in the ass, since I would have to pull out my entire desk just to get access to the back of my PC.


----------



## Theodore

You would look at Asus H6 card,which is a "sister" card to the ST,making it possible to send Dolby signals to the speakers.


----------



## PurpleAngel

There is a new Asus sound card coming out called the ROG.
  Native PCI-Express C-Media CM8888HD audio processor.
  Analog 5.1 or 7.1 speaker support.
  Looks like it's targeted towards the gamer crowd.
  Also comes with a Realtek chip on it.


----------



## Heimdallr

Quote: 





royal amethyst said:


> Did you remember to disable your onboard sound device in your BIO, and uninstall any drivers from other sound devices and cards?


 


  Yes, actually it was a fresh windows install so the driver of onboard card were never installed and i disabled it in the UEFI.
  I've tryied different RCA cables but it's not working very well, the worst moments are when i start a game, i get a very audible noise from both speakers, hopefully tomorrow should arrive my new headphones so i can check if it's a problem only related to the RCA output or both.
   
  EDIT: i can hear the same noise also if the driver are uninstalled (i was going to try uni xonar drivers)


----------



## PelPix

You plugged in the external power supply, right?


----------



## Psyside

hey guys, i  just installed the card, and when i pressed the installation exe for the drivers, this is what i get, is this normal?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Hey guys, i  just installed the card, and when i pressed the installation exe for the drivers, this is what i get, is this normal?


 
  The card must think you do not have the internal power connection to the Essence STX hooked up.


----------



## Psyside

Ye i understand that, thanks for the answer, but is this normal promt? i mean did you guys get this when you where installing the card drivers?
   
  Also what exe to run? i get this,
   

   

   
  Which one is the correct, and thats the difference?


----------



## Psyside

Is it safe to use the line out or left right for Headphones? im using HD595, and i'm not really satisfiled with the sound quallity coming from the HP out.
   
  Maybe i need time to get used to this card, i just bought it 1 day ago, installed it 2 hours ago, and im really tired, maybe this is limiting factor in my judgment of the SQ from HP out, let me know if there is alternative to HP out.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Is it safe to use the line out or left right for Headphones? im using HD595, and i'm not really satisfiled with the sound quallity coming from the HP out.
> 
> Maybe i need time to get used to this card, i just bought it 1 day ago, installed it 2 hours ago, and im really tired, maybe this is limiting factor in my judgment of the SQ from HP out, let me know if there is alternative to HP out.


 

 I have answered this in the other thread. It will not damage the card or headphones, but you will get low quality and resonant bass, and limited power.


----------



## fufula

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Ye i understand that, thanks for the answer, but is this normal promt? i mean did you guys get this when you where installing the card drivers?
> 
> Also what exe to run? i get this,
> 
> ...


 


  1. Yes, I get this during every installation. It's just a reminder, nothing to worry about.
  2. Run either, doesn't make a difference. I think the one outside the Win7 dir detects what version of Windows you're running and starts the correct setup.exe from one of the subdirectories. It's redundant in case of downloaded drivers, since they come in separate packages for each version of Windows.


----------



## derbigpr

I bought this card (well, ST) today....and after 2 hours of not being able to install the drivers because I was getting the "Please plug in the Asus Xonar ST card" error, I finally managed to get the older version of driver up.
   
  Anyway, I have a couple of questions.  First of all, is there any point in using ASIO plug in's in Foobar2000?  When I use the plug in,  my sound card and all settings on it go automatically to highest volume, and I cant control volume in any way, which is completely stupid for people who have no external amplifier.  But the point is....does ASIO in Foobar actually improve sound quality if I use Windows 7? I read somewhere that it makes difference only in Win XP, but in Vista and 7 there's no need to use it?
   
  Also, I see that Xonar ST has 2 volume controls.  One is the main dial in interface, and other volume control is in Mixer tab in the Xonar driver interface, for left and right side.  The one in Mixer tab was at 76/76 by default, but is there any reason for that? Should I leave it at 76 or dial it to 100% and use ONLY the main volume control? Does it affect the sound quality in any way?
   
  Is it possible that card is not functioning properly even though I managed to install the drivers after I failed to do so for the first 50 times?
   
  I'm asking all these questions because I'm not very satisfied with my card....first, for 2 hours I was almost sure it was broken, because it wasnt detected by my PC, no matter which PCI slot or power cable I used. I even took the shield off to see whether the op-amps are properly put inside. When I took the shield off, i saw fingerprints and dust on the inside of the shield, which is....weird. Maybe a used card?  Note that I bought it as new from a official Asus retailer. 
  Anyway, I installed it using old drivers (the middle ones from asus website), which again, might or might not affect the overall performance.  And lastly, I'm hearing hissing noises in certain songs when using 8 channel setup with my headphones, which I used to have turned on by default on my D2X, but now I have to switch between 8 chan and 2 chan depending on the song I play, because some of them hiss in 8 chan mode.  All songs are flac's by the way.
   
  The sound quality itself seems normal, I cant say it sounds broken, although I cant say I'm very impressed either. I'd have a very hard time determining which is which if I were to do a A-B test between D2X and ST, or am I just being slightly biased against it after I cursed every single thing at the card, and almost ended up smashing it into the wall....hm...
   
  NOTE:  Using it with Sennheiser HD650,  in high gain (plenty loud at 40%) ,  or with Little Dot Mk5 using RCA outputs on card....which is a failure setup.  Little Dot is WAY too silent to run HD650's properly this way. Even when putting all volumes all the way up,  I still have to dial the Mk5 all the way up to 70% to get decent volume out of my 650's.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Also, I see that Xonar ST has 2 volume controls.  One is the main dial in interface, and other volume control is in Mixer tab in the Xonar driver interface, for left and right side.  The one in Mixer tab was at 76/76 by default, but is there any reason for that? Should I leave it at 76 or dial it to 100% and use ONLY the main volume control? Does it affect the sound quality in any way?


 

 Leave it at 76% or you will pay a huge price in sound quality. This card has a limiter that activates if you push it over 76%. It is fast clamp slower release type that will the sound to suddenly drop back after drum hits then ramp back up in about .5 seconds making a real disconcerting sound.


----------



## fufula

This 76% setting always puzzled me. From what I've seen, it seems it's not sound card dependent; it's what Windows defaults it to. In WinXP and Win7 (I'm guessing it covers Vista as well) the volume is in no way affected by this setting when outputting through ASIO, making ASIO considerably louder (and, by extension, probably seem better sounding to some) than KS or WASAPI both of which are affected by the volume control in question. Considering the above and what you said, should sound quality when outputting through ASIO always be worse than WASAPI?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





fufula said:


> This 76% setting always puzzled me. From what I've seen, it seems it's not sound card dependent; it's what Windows defaults it to. In WinXP and Win7 (I'm guessing it covers Vista as well) the volume is in no way affected by this setting when outputting through ASIO, making ASIO considerably louder (and, by extension, probably seem better sounding to some) than KS or WASAPI both of which are affected by the volume control in question. Considering the above and what you said, should sound quality when outputting through ASIO always be worse than WASAPI?


 


   
  I have no idea, but what is weird to me is how louder the sound overall gets when I increase the mixer volume from 76% to 100%. Its really huge difference in volume. 
  I dont know....i remember reading on some other forum that it does affect the sound quality, because if you leave the mixer volume too low, then you have to crank up the built in headphone amp too loud, and if you leave the mixer volume too high, you will get clipping sometimes...that doesn't seem likely to me and sounds like bull, but as I said, my card sounds so suspiciously "unimpressive" that it makes me wonder whether some of the settings are wrong.


----------



## audiofreak81

Are there any op-amps that have come out within the last year that are better than 2x LME49860?


----------



## deusofhearts

Quote: 





audiofreak81 said:


> Are there any op-amps that have come out within the last year that are better than 2x LME49860?


 

  
  Someone in the thread mentioned LME49990NA, but I haven't been able to find a review on them.  The high cost (~$18 each) probably has something to do with that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I bought this card (well, ST) today....and after 2 hours of not being able to install the drivers because I was getting the "Please plug in the Asus Xonar ST card" error, I finally managed to get the older version of driver up.
> Anyway, I have a couple of questions.  First of all, is there any point in using ASIO plug in's in Foobar2000?  When I use the plug in,  my sound card and all settings on it go automatically to highest volume, and I cant control volume in any way, which is completely stupid for people who have no external amplifier.  But the point is....does ASIO in Foobar actually improve sound quality if I use Windows 7? I read somewhere that it makes difference only in Win XP, but in Vista and 7 there's no need to use it?
> Also, I see that Xonar ST has 2 volume controls.  One is the main dial in interface, and other volume control is in Mixer tab in the Xonar driver interface, for left and right side.  The one in Mixer tab was at 76/76 by default, but is there any reason for that? Should I leave it at 76 or dial it to 100% and use ONLY the main volume control? Does it affect the sound quality in any way?
> Is it possible that card is not functioning properly even though I managed to install the drivers after I failed to do so for the first 50 times?
> ...


 
  The Essence ST would normally install and be up and running in ten minutes.
  I would say to send it back, also tell the seller that there was dust inside this "new" card".
   
  A few things that might help.
  Go in to your motherboards bios, make sure the on board sound is disabled.
  Also disable anything that you do not use, like the serial ports.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





audiofreak81 said:


> Are there any op-amps that have come out within the last year that are better than 2x LME49860?


 

 I'm using 3 LME49860NAs, and I have 3 LME49990NA SOIC that I'm going to solder to some dip-8 adapters and try.
  AD797s have good reviews, but you have to get 2 mounted/soldered to each DIP-8 adapter.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm using 3 LME49860NAs, and I have 3 LME49990NA SOIC that I'm going to solder to some dip-8 adapters and try.
> AD797s have good reviews, but you have to get 2 mounted/soldered to each DIP-8 adapter.


 

 You will need 6 LME49990 opamps if you want to change them all as the LME49990 opamps are single channel same as the AD797s They are extremely high performance though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





germanium said:


> You will need 6 LME49990 opamps if you want to change them all as the LME49990 opamps are single channel same as the AD797s They are extremely high performance though.


 

 I knew I should have ordered more.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I knew I should have ordered more.


 
  Ordered 7 more LME49990MAs, gives me about 5 tries at building 3 working DIP-8s.


----------



## deusofhearts

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Ordered 7 more LME49990MAs, gives me about 5 tries at building 3 working DIP-8s.


 


  Looking forward to reading your impressions.


----------



## sabzingeur

How do I connect a microphone to the Xonar Essence STX? The input jack is huge whereas my microphone is 3.5mm.


----------



## fufula

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> How do I connect a microphone to the Xonar Essence STX? The input jack is huge whereas my microphone is 3.5mm.


 


  You get yourself a 6.35mm->3.5mm adapter.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Ordered 7 more LME49990MAs, gives me about 5 tries at building 3 working DIP-8s.


 


 Make sure you get the proper adapters as well  as adapters designed fore 2 channel opamps will not work with single channel opamps. they are wired differently


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





fufula said:


> You get yourself a 6.35mm->3.5mm adapter.


 

 It should also be included with the card as an accessory.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Make sure you get the proper adapters as well  as adapters designed fore 2 channel opamps will not work with single channel opamps. they are wired differently


 
  Already have them, got 10 pieces with 80 pins for $10, shipped from China.


----------



## deusofhearts

Installed 3x LME49860NA.  Didn't really take any notes on how the stock opamps sounded, but I "feel" as though the LME49860 seem harsher with more sibilance.  Could just be me being more analytical towards the music.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Already have them, got 10 pieces with 80 pins for $10, shipped from China.


 


 Good deal , let me know how they sound. please.


----------



## audiofreak81

Where would I get the adapters to use the 49990's? I seen where I can buy the op amps at $2 a piece. https://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/OP-Amp/National-Semiconductor/LME49990MA-NOPB/_/R-10887828/A-10887828/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1 I just need the adapters now.


----------



## audiofreak81

Oh, I just found the brown dog adapters that involves no soldering what-so-ever. But they charge $33 for 2 of the op-amps. I'll just buy those seperately.


----------



## derbigpr

Is there anyone around here who prefers the sound from STX when the dolby headphone mode is turned one? (DH-2 setting, livelier room)
   
  I know that such things are usually looked down upon by most audiophiles, but I want to hear the opinions of others on this matter.
  I also used to listen to music with all modes turned off, in pure 2 channel stereo, but then I discovered that using a DH-2 setting (by accident, I left it on after playing a game) with dolby headphone box ticked and with 8 channel enabled actually just increases the soundstage and makes the music sound realistic and alive, at least to my ears. It makes it sound cleaner, more detailed, wider, bigger...bass especially sounds much better, punchier, crisper, but deeper and more textured. It seemed a bit un-natural at first when I listened to music, but I got used to it fast and I like it so much now that I simply can't listen to music without it, even if it is all artificial. When I turn the dolby headphone mode off, music just sounds very very wrong.   Sound is small, in-your-head, undefined, closed in, soundstage very narrow, instrument separation non-existent compared to dolby mode, bass is weak and has very little details, just booms and thumps, micro-details in high region are gone, feeling of distance from instruments and positioning are very bad, etc....and that's when using Sennheiser HD650's. I prefer the dolby mode with my other headphones as well, but I especially feel the difference with HD650's, its really a big difference, not like when switching between amps or DAC's, it truly is a night and day difference. Listening in dolby mode for 2 hours and then turning it off makes me feel like the headphone drivers have been damaged all of a sudden.

 Give it a try for an hour or so, and then turn the dolby off.  It will feel weird at first and music might sound artificial (but not in a bad way, if that makes any sense) and like its coming from 2 huge speakers somewhere 10 meters away from you in a big room with proper acoustic treatment, but you will see how bad it will seem to sound after you turn the dolby off.   
   
  NOTE: all my music is FLAC, mostly 24 bit 96 khz,  I also have binaural recordings, which make an even bigger difference.


----------



## audiofreak81

I have mine turned off, I think it makes it sound terrible. I have my settings on 8 channel, PCM 192 khz, effect is Padded Cell- S-Rock, Flex Bass is 150hz, HP Large. With these settings and upgraded op-amps on the 650's music sounds amazing.


----------



## sabzingeur

In the first post it is said that the Xonar STX supports GX 2.0, and ASUS states this on their website:
  Quote: 





> *3D Sound Engines/APIs:*
> Vista: DirectSound3D® *GX 2.5*, DirectSound® HW, DirectSound SW, A3D®1.0, OpenAL generic modes, 128 3D sounds processing capability


 
  However, with the latest driver, on Windows 7 x64, I got this:
   

   
  Can somebody give some insight into this?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





audiofreak81 said:


> I have mine turned off, I think it makes it sound terrible. I have my settings on 8 channel, PCM 192 khz, effect is Padded Cell- S-Rock, Flex Bass is 150hz, HP Large. With these settings and upgraded op-amps on the 650's music sounds amazing.


 


   
  LOL I didn't even know about the Flex Bass and small/large headphone settings.  Anyway, I tried it now, and makes it makes no difference between having the Flex Bass setting turned on or off in large HP setting, and changing the crossover freqency doesnt change a thing.  What should the crossover frequency changer do anyway? Isn't that only for speakers with 2 or more drivers?


----------



## deusofhearts

Quote:


derbigpr said:


> Is there anyone around here who prefers the sound from STX when the dolby headphone mode is turned one? (DH-2 setting, livelier room)
> 
> I know that such things are usually looked down upon by most audiophiles, but I want to hear the opinions of others on this matter.
> I also used to listen to music with all modes turned off, in pure 2 channel stereo, but then I discovered that using a DH-2 setting (by accident, I left it on after playing a game) with dolby headphone box ticked and with 8 channel enabled actually just increases the soundstage and makes the music sound realistic and alive, at least to my ears. It makes it sound cleaner, more detailed, wider, bigger...bass especially sounds much better, punchier, crisper, but deeper and more textured. It seemed a bit un-natural at first when I listened to music, but I got used to it fast and I like it so much now that I simply can't listen to music without it, even if it is all artificial. When I turn the dolby headphone mode off, music just sounds very very wrong.   Sound is small, in-your-head, undefined, closed in, soundstage very narrow, instrument separation non-existent compared to dolby mode, bass is weak and has very little details, just booms and thumps, micro-details in high region are gone, feeling of distance from instruments and positioning are very bad, etc....and that's when using Sennheiser HD650's. I prefer the dolby mode with my other headphones as well, but I especially feel the difference with HD650's, its really a big difference, not like when switching between amps or DAC's, it truly is a night and day difference. Listening in dolby mode for 2 hours and then turning it off makes me feel like the headphone drivers have been damaged all of a sudden.
> ...


 
   
  DH-2 sounds very unnatural for music to me and probably many others on here, but I believe audio is purely subjective and understand that some people can only enjoy their music with unique EQ settings.  I use DH-2 strictly for games though... Can't play BF3 any other way.
   
  Quote: 





audiofreak81 said:


> I have mine turned off, I think it makes it sound terrible. I have my settings on 8 channel, PCM 192 khz, effect is Padded Cell- S-Rock, Flex Bass is 150hz, HP Large. With these settings and upgraded op-amps on the 650's music sounds amazing.


 

 Tried these settings and they're actually pretty fun.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## audiofreak81

I also have an upgraded cable, that'll probably make a difference in the audio with these settings too.


----------



## Psyside

Hey guys, few questions from new STX owner.
   
  Does the card autmaticly change the sample rate, with the latest drivers? or should i just switch depending on the record?
   
  Also i heard STX is ASIO card, i use ASIO with it, with AIMP3, and it sound alot louder then WASAPI, i wonder if this is normal, and on top of that i cant control the volume trough the drivers when i use ASIO mode with AIMP3, but yet i can control it only with the player it self? (AIMP3) is this also normal?
   
  And lastly is it normal to get stuttering noise when you try to watch youtube video but got the AIMP3 open, is this cause of the ASIO?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Hey guys, few questions from new STX owner.
> 
> Does the card autmaticly change the sample rate, with the latest drivers? or should i just switch depending on the record?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Don't know about the sample rate, I just keep mine at 192 all the time, in my asus xonar control and in window sound settings.   As far as WASAPI being louder, i think thats just because it automatically increases all your volume controls to maxiumum.  Those WASAPI and ASIO plug ins you get for different music players are not very good unless you run your card output to the headphone amplifier trough RCA.  If you use the headphone amp in the card itself, it won't allow you to change volume, it will just max it.


----------



## Linkin

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I disagree with that. I'm using wasapi with my STX over headphones and can readily change the volume and the amplifier gain, with obvious volume changes through the cans.


----------



## billakos

Hi to every one. It took me almost 2 days to read all 195 pages and it was like following you to the past 2 years..
  2 years of exploration and i have to say it was amazing. Thank you for sharing your tests, your results, your thoughts. It is very very usefull.
   
  I would like to ask anyone who knows and would like to help a few things.
   
  I have the Edifier s550 5.1 speakers with X-Fi Titanium. Tuesday i ordered the Asus Xonar Essence ST with the H6 multichannel extension card. Because they didn't have the H6 they saidt hey will ship me both of them on Thursday. So i am waiting for these babies to arrive.
   
  So my questions are:
  1. I know i can change the opamps in H6 card. I can understand that not all of us like the same combination. Does anyone tried this modification? What combination or combinations would suit better ?
   
  2. Can i change the opamp of center/sub seperately and how? From the I/V section? Any combination recommended for this?
   
  3.A change of the opamps in the ST card affect the H6 output?
   
  and finally
  4. Do the Burson HD's worth this great great money difference? And do i need 9 of them or just the 3 in the ST would be ok? (small continuity from the 3d question..)
   
  I would like to thank you in advance  all who had the patience to read all this and and all who both have the patience to read and reply!
  Bill.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





billakos said:


> Hi to every one. It took me almost 2 days to read all 195 pages and it was like following you to the past 2 years..
> 2 years of exploration and i have to say it was amazing. Thank you for sharing your tests, your results, your thoughts. It is very very usefull.
> I would like to ask anyone who knows and would like to help a few things.
> I have the Edifier s550 5.1 speakers with X-Fi Titanium. Tuesday i ordered the Asus Xonar Essence ST with the H6 multichannel extension card. Because they didn't have the H6 they saidt hey will ship me both of them on Thursday. So i am waiting for these babies to arrive.
> ...


 
   
  I believe the stock op-amps (LM4652 & JRC2114D) are very neutral in sound.
   
  Wow, I'm guessing not too many people use the Asus H6 and do op-amps swaps with the H6.
  you might have to be the first one to try swapping the op-amps on it and then post the results.
  On my Essence STX I swapped out all 3 op-amps and used three LME49860NAs.
  you can get 10 LME49860NAs off eBay for $45.
  The LME49860NA is the same op-amp as the LM4652, but the LME49860NA has a better voltage range.
   
  I believe the AD797 have one of the better reputations for improving sound quality, but they are SOIC and single channel, so two have to be soldered to a SOIC to DIP-8 adapter before installation, so if you wanted to replace all 12 op-amps, you would need to buy 24 AD797 and 12 SOIC to DIP-8 adapters total price around $120, plus soldering iron and solder.
  you can buy pre-soldered dual AD797 chip adapters on eBay, around $65 for 10 pieces, but you are buying from China/Hong Kong.
   
  With my next upgrade, I'm going to be soldering 6 LME49990NA (single channel) to 3 SOIC to DIP-8 adapters for the three slots on my STX.


----------



## billakos

Thank you PurpleAngel for your very nice and quick answer .
   
  3 LME49860NAs is one of the combinations i wanted to try after reading all previous pages.
  Imagine though that changing 9 of them cost is $45 as you said. The 24 AR797s with adapters $120 just to get and try.
  And some few other good combinations as mentioned before would go the cost to about $350-$400 which is almost double to the card's price.
   
  That's why i would like to know if changing the 3 on the ST card would have impact to the H6 also. Furthermore 3 Burson HD will cost about $230 which is considerably lot but very good if they are so great as they are supposed to be.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





billakos said:


> Thank you PurpleAngel for your very nice and quick answer .
> 3 LME49860NAs is one of the combinations i wanted to try after reading all previous pages.
> Imagine though that changing 9 of them cost is $45 as you said. The 24 AR797s with adapters $120 just to get and try.
> And some few other good combinations as mentioned before would go the cost to about $350-$400 which is almost double to the card's price.
> That's why i would like to know if changing the 3 on the ST card would have impact to the H6 also. Furthermore 3 Burson HD will cost about $230 which is considerably lot but very good if they are so great as they are supposed to be.


 
  I'm going to guess(?) that an analog 7.1 (8 channel total) speaker set uses all 12 op-amps, one LM4652 with two JRC2114 per 2 channels.
  So for analog sound, the 9 op-amps on the H6 handles 6 channels and the 3 op-amps ST's handle 2 channels.
  The 3 op-amps on the STcould used to power the 2 channels on the STX, but are also used to power 2 channels on the H6.
  If all you used on the H6 is analog 5.1, then the op-amps on the ST would not be used/needed.
  This is my theory (guess).
   
  Find out if anyone else has used the Burson on the H6 or ST.
  Some op-amps do not like working on some PCBs
  Some op-amps do not work well with other (different) op-amps on the same PCB.


----------



## billakos

Thank you again for replying!
   
  Yes the 3 op-amps in the ST/STX card handles the front 2 channels. The H6 handles rear, sub/center and sides.
  And absolutely correct that
  Some op-amps do not like working on some PCBs
  Some op-amps do not work well with other (different) op-amps on the same PCB.
   
  If i don't find an answer for the Burson HDs i will definately try the 4986NAs (3 of them).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





billakos said:


> Thank you again for replying!
> Yes the 3 op-amps in the ST/STX card handles the front 2 channels. The H6 handles rear, sub/center and sides.
> And absolutely correct that
> Some op-amps do not like working on some PCBs
> ...


 
  The LME49860NA (dual channel, DIP-8) are sold on eBay, Around $17 for the 4 piece order.
  No one on eBay sells them in threes.


----------



## billakos

Hi!
  I wanted to buy the 10x offer because i need 9 of them as we already said.
  But finally i bought:
   
  4  LME49860NAs
  4  LME49720NAs (for buffers mainly and/or other combinations)
  2  OPA2228s (for I/V)
  2  OPA2137S (for I/V)
  2  AD8620AR (for I/V) pre-mounted
  2  LT1364       (for I/V and/or buffer )
  1  LM6172
  1  OPA2107    and
  1  OPA1612    (it is an excellent quality opamp from every aspect)
   
  I am also very happy because yes we can put in the I/V section for the sub/center (on the H6 card) different opamps!
  So when the ''babies'' arrive i will try some said to be ''good'' combinations and i will share my experience.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





billakos said:


> Hi!
> I wanted to buy the 10x offer because i need 9 of them as we already said.
> But finally i bought:
> 
> ...


 

 The LM4652, LME49720NA & LME49860NA are the same op-amp.
  The LME49860NAs are the cherry picks (better voltage range) of the LME49720NAs.
  So might as well just order 8 LME49860NAs


----------



## billakos

I know that but their sound signature is said to be a little different and i wanted to try the famous (specially 2 years ago) 3 LME49720NA combination although i agree with you the 3 49860 will be better. And as i said i already bought them all..
  Also i don't know why, i have this strange premonition that the 3 49860 will be finally the most balanced combination. Very strange.


----------



## audiofreak81

I just ordered 3 of these, when I test them out I'll let you all know how they perform.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190629659561?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1039wt_1396


----------



## billakos

Excellent!! I can't wait to hear your opinion for them!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





audiofreak81 said:


> I just ordered 3 of these, when I test them out I'll let you all know how they perform.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190629659561?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1039wt_1396


 

 I ordered all the parts to build 3 SOIC to DIP-8 adapters using the LME49990, with the extra I going to need for the build.
  Would have been better just to order the three pre-builts from that same eBay seller.


----------



## doomgnu

I’m considering the xonar essence for my computer.
  So i find this is the right tread for posting this.
  But I’m a little bit confused whit the headphone out spec. On some of the reviews i read they state that the SNR for the headphone out is 110db on some it is 117db. The third option I’ve seen is 117db (600ohms).
  On the rightmark benchmarks ive seen the SNR of the headphone out is always measured at 111db.
  Does this mean that you actually get 117db snr only when the card is set to very high gain??


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





doomgnu said:


> I’m considering the xonar essence for my computer.
> So i find this is the right tread for posting this.
> But I’m a little bit confused whit the headphone out spec. On some of the reviews i read they state that the SNR for the headphone out is 110db on some it is 117db. The third option I’ve seen is 117db (600ohms).
> On the rightmark benchmarks ive seen the SNR of the headphone out is always measured at 111db.
> Does this mean that you actually get 117db snr only when the card is set to very high gain??


 

 The SNR depends on the output level, the higher it is, the better the signal to noise ratio. The tests were probably performed at different output levels, among other potential problems. If by "rightmark benchmarks" you mean RMAA with a simple loopback cable, then those are limited by the 2 Vrms maximum line input level of the card.
  But what ultimately matters is whether the noise floor is high enough (in absolute terms, regardless of the signal level) to be potentially audible with your headphones.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





doomgnu said:


> I’m considering the xonar essence for my computer.
> So i find this is the right tread for posting this.
> But I’m a little bit confused whit the headphone out spec. On some of the reviews i read they state that the SNR for the headphone out is 110db on some it is 117db. The third option I’ve seen is 117db (600ohms).
> On the rightmark benchmarks ive seen the SNR of the headphone out is always measured at 111db.
> Does this mean that you actually get 117db snr only when the card is set to very high gain??


 

 I wouldn't bother with that, as the noise level is low enough for you to never be able to hear it, regardless of gain setting, volume or headphones you're using.


----------



## Muffinator

A few minutes before posting this I went to get a glass of ice water, and as always I hit the 'Lock' button before leaving my computer.
  Instead of hearing the lovely Windows 7 'doo-dum', I heard 'doo-*KZZARZTbeeeeeee*'. Unlocking my screen caused the 'eeeee' to stop,
  and after it did it left my ears feeling funny because it was so loud. This was with my headphones _off_ lying on my desk, and now I'm
  rather afraid to put them back on. o~o;
   
  I've read complaints about this before, but I never really looked into it because I thought it was only a problem with the STX. I have an ST.
  I got it on the 14th of last December and haven't had this problem before. Is there any sort of solution for this or should I never put my headphones on again?


----------



## fufula

Quote: 





muffinator said:


> Is there any sort of solution for this or should I never put my headphones on again?


 


  If there is, I wish I knew what it was.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/494565/xonar-essense-stx-random-loud-high-pitched-ringing-noise


----------



## audiofreak81

It has to be the stupid power saving features built into windows 7, sometimes it provides way too much power to the pci-e slots. Just turn that off and it should never happen.


----------



## fufula

Quote: 





audiofreak81 said:


> It has to be the stupid power saving features built into windows 7, sometimes it provides way too much power to the pci-e slots. Just turn that off and it should never happen.


 


  I just turned it off. ST is a PCI card. I hope the feature's just mislabeled and it actually helps...
   
  In case someone doesn't know how to:
  Control Panel > System and Security > Change when the computer sleeps > Change advanced power settings > PCI Express.


----------



## audiofreak81

Okay, I installed the 3 sets of the LME49990. My verdict is its UNDENIABLY THE BEST OP-AMPS EVER! The bass is amped up to new heights, but the music is even more clear. The detail is amazing. Only thing is DO NOT USE THE SAME VOLUME LEVELS YOU ARE USED TO. If you do it will blast your ears off. The guy I bought them off of on ebay did an amazing job.


----------



## doomgnu

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> In the first post it is said that the Xonar STX supports GX 2.0, and ASUS states this on their website:
> However, with the latest driver, on Windows 7 x64, I got this:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  it seems it could have something to do whit fact that you have windows 7 and not Vista. That quote you posted says that support under vista. But there is no reason why there shouldn’t be DX 2.5 under win 7. I have it when companys give you less than promised.


----------



## maarek99

Does the LME49990 need an adapter or will it fit right in?


----------



## audiofreak81

It needs an adaptor, its a single soic when the card takes dual's. The cheapest way to get them is through the ebay link I posted. Or just buy an adapter and the 49990's and solder them yourself. They are tiny though and my hands shake, too scared to do it myself.


----------



## audiofreak81

You will need 2 per adapter, which is six total 49990's. Trust me, they are only half the size of the dual's, its better to buy them already done, and the guy that built them did an excellent job soldering them, its well worth it.


----------



## wushuliu

Replacing the ST clock w/ Vanguard elevates performance. Everyone should do it, even if they have to pay someone. Holds its own with any of the <$500 Dacs I have heard (speaking about line out) or digital out like Audio-GD DI, V-link etc - and does some things a whole lot better.


----------



## Staal

This has probably been asked countless times, but as I'm looking into a new desktop source at the moment, I was wondering how well the Xonar Essence STX fares against standalone DAC-boxes.
   
  What does the DAC section of this compare to, and would I be getting more bang for the buck this way rather than buying a standalone DAC?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





staal said:


> This has probably been asked countless times, but as I'm looking into a new desktop source at the moment, I was wondering how well the Xonar Essence STX fares against standalone DAC-boxes.
> What does the DAC section of this compare to, and would I be getting more bang for the buck this way rather than buying a standalone DAC?


 
  You might want to look at it this way.
  If you want headphone (7.1 & 5.1 channel) surround sound for movies and games, get the Essence STX, $180.
  If all you really want is music, Stereo (2.0 channel) sound for movies and games, then you can go with an external (USB?)/DAC/headphone amplifier, $80 or more.
   
  Fiio E9 & Fiio "D" series DAC $130
   
  Objective 2 portable headphone amplifier and Fiio "D" series DAC, $185.


----------



## wushuliu

Stock form compares well to HRT Streamer II+, V-DAC. It does certain things very well and other things not so well in my experience. Once you ditch the output caps, swap opamps, and replace the clock then it holds its own against VDAC II, Dacport LX, and even the DACiT. The thing to keep in mind is different Dacs do different things well. Some are smoother, some really wide soundstage, some are very refined. It doesn't help that there are a million of them now. So you have to just demo what you can and decide. Amazon carries most of these Dacs now so you don't have to worry about return hassle.
   
  That said, the ST/X is still worth the cost even w/ external dac because it eliminates the need for a usb/spdif converter, which can be a whole other expensive merry-go-round for some and performs better than the ones I've used (as mentioned in previous post).


----------



## repman244

Just got 2 x LME49860 and I must say that I am shocked at how much difference it makes. The instrument separation, the tight bass and much more pleasant sound to my ears.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> Just got 2 x LME49860 and I must say that I am shocked at how much difference it makes. The instrument separation, the tight bass and much more pleasant sound to my ears.


 


  Yep, the LME49860's are pretty good amps.  Simply put, the various opamps are like flavors and you will like some flavors more then others and your tastes will differ from others.


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yep, the LME49860's are pretty good amps.  Simply put, the various opamps are like flavors and you will like some flavors more then others and your tastes will differ from others.


 


  Yea, I was thinking about ordering a few others to try and find nice sound, but for now I'm very pleased.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> Yea, I was thinking about ordering a few others to try and find nice sound, but for now I'm very pleased.


 


  That's the trick, to enjoy what the new opamps provide.  Some people get into swapping opamps so much that they put the actual enjoyment of their sound system second.  Not to mention that it takes awhile for your ears/brain to get used to a new signature also so quick A/B changes don't really work well here.


----------



## xShinBoi

hi, I just wondering what op-amp should I use with my current setup...Asus Xonar Essence STX --> RudiStor NX-03 --> AKG K701

 just bought few op-amps...

 LME49720NA x3
 LME49720HA x3
 LME49860NA x3
 LT1364CN8 x2
 LT1358CN8 x2

 stock op-amps..

 JRC2114D x2
 LM4562
   
  prefer neutral sounding..


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





xshinboi said:


> hi, I just wondering what op-amp should I use with my current setup...Asus Xonar Essence STX --> RudiStor NX-03 --> AKG K701
> just bought few op-amps...
> LME49720NA x3
> LME49720HA x3
> ...


 
  I'm going to guess the stock op-amps (JRC2114/LM4562) are the most neutral.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Do some experiments with the opamps.


----------



## Pudu

I'm still having issues with 88.2 KHz files. I'm running what I think are the latest drivers (7.12.8.1794) : Foobar WASAPI -> STX. It always crashes with any 88.2 KHz file. 

Does anyone have any ideas about what's causing this? I was under the impression that this issue had been fixed a while back with a driver update.

Cheers


----------



## ROBSCIX

What happens when you try ASIO?


----------



## Pudu

ASIO seems to work fine.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pudu said:


> ASIO seems to work fine.


 


  I thought so.  IIRC, those resolutions 88.2, 176.4 are only available through ASIO.
  Can you get 176.4 working with WASAPI?


----------



## Pudu

Alright then. 

Thanks for the clarification and the help. I'm a total no-nothing when it comes to WASAPI and ASIO. I'll just run it as ASIO to avoid unrecoverable playback errors.

Cheers


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Alright then.
> Thanks for the clarification and the help. I'm a total no-nothing when it comes to WASAPI and ASIO. I'll just run it as ASIO to avoid unrecoverable playback errors.
> Cheers


 


  Yeah, those resolutions where added later with the update of the ASIO driver...IIRC.
  Just use ASIO and all should be good.
   
  Glad I could help.


----------



## Pudu

Sorry I didn't see your post edit: I'm not sure I have any 176.4 material to test it with.

I've never used ASIO before but it seems to work just as well. The only thing I notice is that if I set the buffer length too short I hear a background ticking noise.



Now I just have to track down and eliminate the perpetual, ongoing bane of my computer experience - coil whine.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Sorry I didn't see your post edit: I'm not sure I have any 176.4 material to test it with.
> I've never used ASIO before but it seems to work just as well. The only thing I notice is that if I set the buffer length too short I hear a background ticking noise.
> Now I just have to track down and eliminate the perpetual, ongoing bane of my computer experience - coil whine.


 

 It doesn't matter, IIRC both those resolutions are only available through ASIO.  You can test with WASAPI if you want but you will probably just get the same crash.
  ASIO is very similar to WASAPI in the way it operates.
  You don't need a really low buffer just set it as low as you can without any negative effects.  That's the way most people I know set the buffer.
  Good luck.


----------



## Pudu

Thanks again!


----------



## JavierS

MusicBee outputs both 88.2 and 176.4 through WASAPI (configured not to resample) to a D2X using Unixonar 1.51. On the Same computer Foobar gives an error playing the same thorugh WASAPI 2.1 plugin.
  I tried on a friend's PC J River MC 17 with an Asus ST and both WASAPI and WASAPI Event Style could play perfectly those resolutions whereas Foobar, again, couldn't giving the same error.
  Looks like not all WASAPI outs are created equal.
   
   
SUBMIT


----------



## wushuliu

Yes, I use 88.2 and 176 via Wasapi and KS through the ST with no problems using JRMC and unixonar drivers.
   
  Here's a question though: if the ST/X analog out has controllable volume (and not bypassable as far as I know), then
  analog out can't be bitperfect, right? 
   
  Also I thought I read that 88.2 and 176 were downsampled from 96/192...


----------



## Jon L

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Also I thought I read that 88.2 and 176 were downsampled from 96/192...


 

 That's what I was wondering as well.  I thought Xonar did not have 2 separate clocks for both 88.2/176.4 AND 96/192, thus only natively supporting the latter.  If firmware update "fixed" the 88.2/176.4 support, are they just using the one clock they have and resampling?


----------



## JavierS

What firmware update??? I don't think the ST or the STX are firmware updatable.
   
  Many sound cards and USB DACs have a single clock and synthesize both frequency families (44.1 & 48) from it.
   
  Funnily I have a problem with ASIO and 88.2 & 176.4KHz files, if I play any cuh material first I only get noise but if then I play for a couple of seconds a 96 or 192KHz file and return to the former it then plays fine, as if the PLLs had got stuck and needed a little push to start going again. Don't know if I got a faulty ST or if this is a common issue. I have another Xonar (D2X) which doesn't suffer from this using excatly the same drivers and player/OS configuration.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Yes, I use 88.2 and 176 via Wasapi and KS through the ST with no problems using JRMC and unixonar drivers.
> 
> Here's a question though: if the ST/X analog out has controllable volume (and not bypassable as far as I know), then
> analog out can't be bitperfect, right?
> ...


 
  ASIO should bypass the volume and any effects at the card itself.


----------



## Thunderbolt

is there any post which collects all the other tweaks I can do with my STX, other than OPAMP upgrades like described in the OP? cant go through all 200 pages -.-


----------



## PlasticChicken

Quote: 





thunderbolt said:


> is there any post which collects all the other tweaks I can do with my STX, other than OPAMP upgrades like described in the OP? cant go through all 200 pages -.-


 


http://www.head-fi.org/t/433533/upgrading-the-crystal-x0-on-essence-stx
   
  There are also threads that talk about upgrading capacitors and stuff on the STX. Can't find them at the moment though. Good luck.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You can upgrade most components that are easily removable such as caps, opamps and the XO.  You can add caps, remove certain ones or change the value or type.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





wushuliu said:


> Replacing the ST clock w/ Vanguard elevates performance. Everyone should do it, even if they have to pay someone. Holds its own with any of the <$500 Dacs I have heard (speaking about line out) or digital out like Audio-GD DI, V-link etc - and does some things a whole lot better.


 


  Any idea how much it could cos and where to get it? Anybody in New York city can do this and how much it could cost? Any information is very appreciated
  Currently enjoying mine with LME49860 after trying others mentioned here too


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Any idea how much it could cos and where to get it? Anybody in New York city can do this and how much it could cost? Any information is very appreciated
> Currently enjoying mine with LME49860 after trying others mentioned here too


 
  I too like my 3 LME49860NAs.


----------



## wushuliu

Late reply, sorry, but yes that's the only conclusion I can come to - resampling, albeit very good sounding resampling.


----------



## verde57

For quite sometime now I have installed on my card two OPA627AU, they are great with good imaging and stereo separation, and very analytical, but they lack bass . With Headphones like Q701 (bass light) doesn't make good choice, even with M50 the bass  is a bit weak.By the way these op-ams need burn-in?
  Before these I had two LME49720NA, very pleased with them, of course they have there limitations in the accuracy of  sound.
  I'm now going to try LME79990 and see how it goes with AKG Q701.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> For quite sometime now I have installed on my card two OPA627AU, they are great with good imaging and stereo separation, and very analytical, but they lack bass . With Headphones like Q701 (bass light) doesn't make good choice, even with M50 the bass  is a bit weak.By the way these op-ams need burn-in?
> Before these I had two LME49720NA, very pleased with them, of course they have there limitations in the accuracy of  sound.
> I'm now going to try LME79990 and see how it goes with AKG Q701.


 
  LME79990NAs or LME49990NAs?
   
  Try the LME49860NAs, they are $4 each on eBay.
  It's the same op-amp as the LME49720NAs, but with a better voltage range.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> Before these I had two LME49720NA, very pleased with them, of course they have there limitations in the accuracy of  sound.
> I'm now going to try LME79990 and see how it goes with AKG Q701.


 


  
  Try the LME49720*HA*, they are the metal can version of those chips and are a bit higher up the ladder.  They require adapters to use properly but most higher end audio opamps do.


----------



## verde57

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Try the LME49720*HA*, they are the metal can version of those chips and are a bit higher up the ladder.  They require adapters to use properly but most higher end audio opamps do.


 


   
  Do you think that LME49720*HA* sounds better then OPA627AU which also require adapters?
  Or LME49720HA is better all-rounder  then LME49860NA?
  I'm looking for something superior, until ill make courage for a set of Burson op-amps.
  The question for me is, who is better sounding between LME49990 and AD797BRZ? both need adapters and they are in the same category with OPA627AU, which I understand they are known as "laid back" kind of.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> Do you think that LME49720*HA* sounds better then OPA627AU which also require adapters?
> I'm looking for something superior, until ill make courage for a set of Burson op-amps.
> The question for me is, who is better sounding between LME49990 and AD797BRZ? both need adapters.


 
   

 That is hard to answer as what I like might not be what you like.  I have a set of OPA627SM and OPA637SM and I usually use them when I reach for a 6X7 opamp.  I say just do some testing on your own, that is the only way to know for sure.
   
  I did some experiments way back with discrete opamps and the STX/ST, they sound really good in those design.  There were about 4 of use doing tests and comparing notes through PM.  Too bad the info never made the threads.  If you want to try discrete but find the Bursons a bit expensive, I would try the Audio-GD modules.  You have the Earth, sun and Moon opamps to try out and they all sound pretty good for the prices.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> Do you think that LME49720*HA* sounds better then OPA627AU which also require adapters?
> Or LME49720HA is better all-rounder  then LME49860NA?
> I'm looking for something superior, until ill make courage for a set of Burson op-amps.
> The question for me is, who is better sounding between LME49990 and AD797BRZ? both need adapters.


 
   
  I'm guessing the LME49720HA is going to have the a "Cleaner" signal over the LME49860NA.
   
  LME49990 verses AD797, there is a load question.
   
  LME49990NA SOIC sell for around $2.80 each, plus $8 for shipping (USA)
  or $55.50 for three pre-soldered adapters
   
  AD797BRZ SOIC sell for around $6.50 each, plus $8 shipping (USA)
  AD797AR SOIC (used) sell for around $3.50 each, but it's from China.
   
  You can get 20 pcs of AD797AR SOIC mounted (soldered) on to 10 Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapters for $60-$80, but it's from China.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm guessing the LME49720HA is going to have the a "Cleaner" signal over the LME49860NA.
> 
> LME49990 verses AD797, there is a load question.
> 
> ...


 

 Generally people seem to prefer the AD797*BR* over the AR variant but tastes are personal. 
  I would be careful buying opamps on the net as there are counterfeits around.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





robscix said:


> That is hard to answer as what I like might not be what you like.  I have a set of OPA627SM and OPA637SM and I usually use them when I reach for a 6X7 opamp.  I say just do some testing on your own, that is the only way to know for sure.
> 
> I did some experiments way back with discrete opamps and the STX/ST, they sound really good in those design.  There were about 4 of use doing tests and comparing notes through PM.  Too bad the info never made the threads.  If you want to try discrete but find the Bursons a bit expensive, I would try the Audio-GD modules.  You have the Earth, sun and Moon opamps to try out and they all sound pretty good for the prices.


 

 Just checked Audio-GD website and they don't list any USA agent so we have to order them directly. If i'm understanding it right we need Dual-OPA version?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Just checked Audio-GD website and they don't list any USA agent so we have to order them directly. If i'm understanding it right we need Dual-OPA version?


 


  Yes, the dual channel versions and you have to buy directly from Audio-GD.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, the dual channel versions and you have to buy directly from Audio-GD.


 

 Thanks. I love how LME49860 sound so which one EARTH or MOON should i choose?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Thanks. I love how LME49860 sound so which one EARTH or MOON should i choose?


 


  Those discrete opamps are more "analog" so they will trim down the high end a bit so if you like that ultra detailed sound signature, they might not be the right choice for you.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Those discrete opamps are more "analog" so they will trim down the high end a bit so if you like that ultra detailed sound signature, they might not be the right choice for you.


 


  Thanks a lot, but what about 49990? Are those way better than 49860 ?


----------



## audiofreak81

I think they are. But they are single so you need 2 per on an adapter.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Thanks a lot, but what about 49990? Are those way better than 49860 ?


 


  IIRC, they measure better for certain aspects.  You would have to hear them to decide if they sound better to you.


----------



## olegausany

Thanks but unfortunately they are single chanel so require soldering to an adapter so this not gonna work for me


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Thanks but unfortunately they are single chanel so require soldering to an adapter so this not gonna work for me


 


  You will find that most of the audio opamps people use for upgrading audio components are either SOIC8 (surface mount), single channel or both.


----------



## MattTCG

Silly question...I have a pair of d2000's hooked up to the headphone port of my stx. Sound great btw. I have a pair of hd598's on the way and want to be able to switch easily between the two for different types of music. Can I use the line out port for the second pair of phones and just switch in the xonar control panel and not have to physically switch?
   
  I thought I read somewhere that the line out might even be better...not sure.
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## rroseperry

Why not just use the front headphone panel outlet for one and the back for the other?


----------



## olegausany

I do know this that's why i skipped all those which require soldering but tried those which don't so for me 49860 as I/V and i forgot which one as a buffer (did it more than a year ago) sound best but i was curious if 49990 are worth buying from eBay already presoldered especially since Audioo-GD ones are more expensive plus not so cheap and quick shipping so u can't just get EARTH and MOON try them and return if you don't like them


----------



## MattTCG

I didn't even connect the front panel. I read somewhere that it was a noisy connection. I have a Lian Li case but could hook it up.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Silly question...I have a pair of d2000's hooked up to the headphone port of my stx. Sound great btw. I have a pair of hd598's on the way and want to be able to switch easily between the two for different types of music. Can I use the line out port for the second pair of phones and just switch in the xonar control panel and not have to physically switch?
> 
> I thought I read somewhere that the line out might even be better...not sure.
> 
> ...


 
  According to the information, the line output offer the highest measurements.
  However, if you like the headphone features like Dolby Headphone, it is not available through the line output.
  As to your other question on front panel header, try it out, it can be noisy based on a certain things.  Make sure you mute the mic input or it can pick up noise when nothing is connected.


----------



## rroseperry

I haven't any problem with noise myself, but the best way to find out would be for you to hook it up.


----------



## MattTCG

Does the line output also have access to the cards headphone amp?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Does the line output also have access to the cards headphone amp?


 

 I believe the answer is, nope.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Does the line output also have access to the cards headphone amp?


 

 No.  It is a line output only.


----------



## ProjectDenz

I'm going to pair my JH13 pro's with the Asus ST straight out of the headphone out (Full-sized cans are just too uncomfortable for long term listening for me). I bought a few opamps to tweak the sound to my liking.
   
  Good call/bad call?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> I'm going to pair my JH13 pro's with the Asus ST straight out of the headphone out (Full-sized cans are just too uncomfortable for long term listening for me). I bought a few opamps to tweak the sound to my liking.
> 
> Good call/bad call?


 

  
  Bad call, the JH have a 28 ohm impedance, the asus is 10 ohms.
   
  I have the Denon d2k (25 ohm), and i can honestly say its not a good match, this is why:
  You have all the detail in the world, but only at high volume, more then i would like.
  There is too much extra bass, a subbass head will love it, and i like a bit of extra bass, and i dont like it, well unless im playing skrillex which needs the extra subbass.
  Also the sound is very harsh, its not pleasent, if i plug my d2k's into a shi++y sony amp then i prefer that signiture, makes me smile, its smoother and more pleasent. If i had to describe it would be as follows.
   
  (Just a note there are a few articles on impedance matching that support the sonic characteristics that i'm hearing,so its not a placebo )
   
  Normal sine wave
  __--^--__
   
  Asus xonar essence paired with low impedance can
  _-^_
   
  There is just a sense that it hits the note and thats it, no smooth transition what so ever, it makes it effort to listen to music.
  (But remember this card IS capable of hitting all the notes, well at that.)
   
  I'm going to try rectify it by opamp rolling and possibly an impedance cable, also finally getting my QED 2xRCA male to 1 Jack female cable coming in to test with the RCA outputs. (Broke student, cant afford to start making my own cables, or even have them made.)
   
  List of opamps to ATTEMPT to tame harshness, and bass:
  LME49990
  LME49720HA
  AD798
  THS4032
  +other recs? (please remember on broke student budget, so no Burson)
   
  EDIT: my grammer and english is horrible, im too lazy to fix it, its late here, live with it


----------



## Thunderbolt

is there actually any "tweaking" information about the different versions of sound drivers (asus original or uni xonar drivers)?
   
  any preferences which version sounds best (in combination with wasapi)?
   
  am still using the oldest win vista drivers atm.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





thunderbolt said:


> is there actually any "tweaking" information about the different versions of sound drivers (asus original or uni xonar drivers)?
> 
> any preferences which version sounds best (in combination with wasapi)?
> 
> am still using the oldest win vista drivers atm.


 

 not in my opinion just much smoother operation with the uni drivers.
  play with the sample rate if you see whats the best quality, to me 192khz sounds the best, but ironically its measurements are the worst. go figure.


----------



## olegausany

I'm happily using UniXonar 1.41 with ASIO (used WASAPI for a long time before) but read in the blog that somebody tried 1.52 and found it sounding much worse than 1.41 so he immediately switched back. This first time i hear problem like this and i didn't try 1.51 myself


----------



## calist3r

Do you guys know why the default mixer setting is at 76/76?
   
  Should I just crank it all the way up to 100% and use only the main volume knob?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





calist3r said:


> Do you guys know why the default mixer setting is at 76/76?
> 
> Should I just crank it all the way up to 100% and use only the main volume knob?


 


 No you should not boost it to 100% as you will experience the effects of a built in limiter if you do & they are quite disconcerting to say the least
   boosting to 100% actually is boosting the signal by about 12db over the level of what was recorded digitally & if it is anywhere nearclipping in the original you will for sure be riding that limiter pretty hard. If you get something that was recorded very soft as in averaging 20db down from max value then yuou could boost it somwhat over 76% in order to get it sufficiently loud if it is otherwise too soft with the volume control all the way up but otherwise leave it at 76%.


----------



## PurpleAngel

AD797BR for use in my Essence STX
  Where do you guys get your AD797BRs from, both soldered (in pairs) on to SOIC to DIP-8 adapters and unsoldered SOIC.
  Anyone bought used ones them from China?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> AD797BR for use in my Essence STX
> Where do you guys get your AD797BRs from, both soldered (in pairs) on to SOIC to DIP-8 adapters and unsoldered SOIC.
> Anyone bought used ones them from China?


 


  The units I used I built.


----------



## verde57

http://cimarrontechnology.com/single-to-dualop-ampadapterpn020302.aspx


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Bad call, the JH have a 28 ohm impedance, the asus is 10 ohms.
> I have the Denon d2k (25 ohm), and i can honestly say its not a good match, this is why:
> You have all the detail in the world, but only at high volume, more then i would like.
> There is too much extra bass, a subbass head will love it, and i like a bit of extra bass, and i dont like it, well unless im playing skrillex which needs the extra subbass.
> ...


 
  I'm not sure it tames harshness and bass, but it's only $15 on eBay for 3 LME49860NAs op-amps.
  The LM4652, LME49720NA and LME49860NA are the same op-amp, the LME49860NA are cherry picks of the LME49720NA, because the LME49860NA has a better voltage range.
  I believe the AD798 is a misstype and should say AD797, the preferred AD797 is the AD797BR which you can get them new for $6.50, or used lower price ones on eBay.
  The LME49990 and AD797 are single channel SOIC op-amps, so they have to be soldered in pairs on a DIP-8 adapter.


----------



## calist3r

Quote: 





germanium said:


> No you should not boost it to 100% as you will experience the effects of a built in limiter if you do & they are quite disconcerting to say the least
> boosting to 100% actually is boosting the signal by about 12db over the level of what was recorded digitally & if it is anywhere nearclipping in the original you will for sure be riding that limiter pretty hard. If you get something that was recorded very soft as in averaging 20db down from max value then yuou could boost it somwhat over 76% in order to get it sufficiently loud if it is otherwise too soft with the volume control all the way up but otherwise leave it at 76%.


 


  Just saw this, thanks!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm not sure it tames harshness and bass, but it's only $15 on eBay for 3 LME49860NAs op-amps.
> The LM4652, LME49720NA and LME49860NA are the same op-amp, the LME49860NA are cherry picks of the LME49720NA, because the LME49860NA has a better voltage range.
> I believe the AD798 is a misstype and should say AD797, the preferred AD797 is the AD797BR which you can get them new for $6.50, or used lower price ones on eBay.
> The LME49990 and AD797 are single channel SOIC op-amps, so they have to be soldered in pairs on a DIP-8 adapter.


 

 Yes you are observant, that was a typo, and i am aware of the dip8 adapters.
  Thanks anyway, any input/info on the use of an impedance cable?


----------



## shorke

Hey, so I have this sound card (http://www.htomega.com/claro2.html) coming to me brand new since my Claro Plus broke. I enjoyed my Claro Plus, I thought it was very clear sounding. But the Claro II is also based off of this same card from 2007, it just has shielding and anti-pop now. It is 2012 now and I'm sure cards have progressed since then. I am looking at the AKG Q701s or Sennheiser HD 650. My plan was to just build or buy an O2 and use it with this soundcard, but I've been told the DAC won't be good enough and that the ST is much better, the best sounding sound card out there. Should I sell the Claro II and just get the ST? The reason I am weary is because the O2 sounds like it has better compatibility with headphones, the st/stx seems to have problems with some like the D2000 or so I've heard. Plus the ODAC sounds intriguing. So what I'm asking is, am I going to really hear that much of an increase in sound quality if I got an ST over the Claro II and an O2?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





shorke said:


> Hey, so I have this sound card (http://www.htomega.com/claro2.html) coming to me brand new since my Claro Plus broke. I enjoyed my Claro Plus, I thought it was very clear sounding. But the Claro II is also based off of this same card from 2007, it just has shielding and anti-pop now. It is 2012 now and I'm sure cards have progressed since then. I am looking at the AKG Q701s or Sennheiser HD 650. My plan was to just build or buy an O2 and use it with this soundcard, but I've been told the DAC won't be good enough and that the ST is much better, the best sounding sound card out there. Should I sell the Claro II and just get the ST? The reason I am weary is because the O2 sounds like it has better compatibility with headphones, the st/stx seems to have problems with some like the D2000 or so I've heard. Plus the ODAC sounds intriguing. So what I'm asking is, am I going to really hear that much of an increase in sound quality if I got an ST over the Claro II and an O2?


 
  I vote to go with the O2, Asus has one new sound card (Phoebus) coming out soon (one or two months) and I'm sure others are too.
  C-Media just came out with the Oxygen HD CMI8888 audio processor, it's C-Media's first native PCI-Express audio processor.
  So at least wait a few month or more, before looking to replace the Claro 2.


----------



## suburbanite

Does the Xonar STX pick up the noise of a noisy 7200rpm HDD?
   
  Do most of you guys have 5400rpm or otherwise quieter HDD's?
   
  Are any of you running relatively weak PSU's such as <300w with your STX's *and *without issues?


----------



## shorke

Didn't know about that new chip, I did see the Phoebus and it looked really cool. Thanks, I think I'll wait it out and see what new offerings come around.
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I vote to go with the O2, Asus has one new sound card (Phoebus) coming out soon (one or two months) and I'm sure others are too.
> C-Media just came out with the Oxygen HD CMI8888 audio processor, it's C-Media's first native PCI-Express audio processor.
> So at least wait a few month or more, before looking to replace the Claro 2.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





suburbanite said:


> Does the Xonar STX pick up the noise of a noisy 7200rpm HDD?
> 
> Do most of you guys have 5400rpm or otherwise quieter HDD's?
> 
> Are any of you running relatively weak PSU's such as <300w with your STX's *and *without issues?


 

  
  I have 4 pretty loud HDD's in my PC together with 2 graphics cards which sound like air conditioners on full loud, but I hear no noise trough Essence ST.  Its dead quiet at any volume.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





shorke said:


> Didn't know about that new chip, I did see the Phoebus and it looked really cool. Thanks, I think I'll wait it out and see what new offerings come around.


 

 The Claro 2, Essence ST & STX all use the CMI8788 audio processor (native PCI), so I'm assuming the CMI8888s only difference is it has native PCI-Express.


----------



## WiR3D

The ST/X has issues driving low impedance headphones, its much more suited to the higher impedance cans, thats why it struggles with the D2K (a few notable sound characteristics include harshness and bloated and muddy bass, its not a pleasent sound signiture.)
   
  I have both, I'm not sick of it, I could put up with it for a while, not anymore.


----------



## ProjectDenz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> The ST/X has issues driving low impedance headphones, its much more suited to the higher impedance cans, thats why it struggles with the D2K (a few notable sound characteristics include harshness and bloated and muddy bass, its not a pleasent sound signiture.)
> 
> I have both, I'm not sick of it, I could put up with it for a while, not anymore.


 


  Have you tried throwing in an impedance adapter? Seems to work for me with IEMs (eliminates hiss and a little harshness).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> Have you tried throwing in an impedance adapter? Seems to work for me with IEMs (eliminates hiss and a little harshness).


 

 I mentioned previously i want to try, i'm currently trying to find decent ones.
  And recomendations?
   
  I have not noticed any hiss with my denons? I figure its ultra sensetive IEMs?


----------



## Audioexcels

Sorry for my laziness in scrolling through the thread but, "specifically" used as a digital only source to connect to an outboard dac....
   
  1) Is the ST still better than the STX?
   
  2) Is there any PCI-E card that would be equal or better than the Xonar?
   
  3) Anything in the super budget/cheap category with same sound?
   
   
  Again, strictly speaking of the digital only and no interest at all with the analog section, headphone section, etc. etc.

 Thanks for any solid input!


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Sorry for my laziness in scrolling through the thread but, "specifically" used as a digital only source to connect to an outboard dac....
> 
> 1) Is the ST still better than the STX?
> 
> ...


 
   
  1)   No, unless you have the most precise measuring instruments in your ears.
   
  2)   No, unless you want to spend a couple of grand on some professional studio sound card. ST/STX is the best "mainstream" soundcard on the market for music listening.
   
  3)   No.
   
   
  But why would you want to use a soundcard as good as STX just for output into another external DAC? Unless you're talking about some high-end DAC above $1000, otherwise, differences between it and STX will be almost inaudible.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> The ST/X has issues driving low impedance headphones


 


  True. It has a much harder time running my Q701's than HD650's, even though Q701's have 5 times less impedance and are more sensitive. It also sounds very narrow and weird somehow, as if there was no sound stage at all.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> But why would you want to use a soundcard as good as STX just for output into another external DAC? Unless you're talking about some high-end DAC above $1000, otherwise, differences between it and STX will be almost inaudible.


 

 I do have an extremely revealing system and have what I consider to be a reference level preamp+dac in one unit.  I have been trying to find the very best source via PC or even a Stable Platter, but without spending the bucks obviously.  I have been spending a little time with USB based sources, but have not had too much luck just yet with them.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Sorry for my laziness in scrolling through the thread but, "specifically" used as a digital only source to connect to an outboard dac....
> 
> 1) Is the ST still better than the STX?
> 
> ...


 


  The ST improvements over the STX are too marginal, but if you have a noise free computer environment, going with the ST would be better, as minuscule as the improvements might be.
   
  The Creative X-Fi Titanium HD is at least as good as the Asus Xonar Essence STX, and with both having replaceable opamps, you're free to further tweak the sound to your liking.
   
  What exactly do you consider super cheap? Under $50? Because for that you have the Asus Xonar DG, the cheapest acceptable quality you can find. Between $50 and $100, you have an Auzentech X-Fi Forte.
   
  EDIT: Just noticed you were talking about digital only, for which the soundcards used make little difference.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





roller said:


> The ST improvements over the STX are too marginal, but if you have a noise free computer environment, going with the ST would be better, as minuscule as the improvements might be.
> 
> The Creative X-Fi Titanium HD is at least as good as the Asus Xonar Essence STX, and with both having replaceable opamps, you're free to further tweak the sound to your liking.
> 
> ...


 

 Yup.  I'm wanting as high end of a digital feed as is possible without breaking the bank. It can be a $1K card if it truly provides a source that is somehow that much better than a lower priced card.  Likewise, I have and am still trying out some $500+ USB converters.  I don't think it's truly "practical" to try and achieve a clean/noise free computer because then we're talking replacing the caps/resistors/etc. etc. with super expensive low noise parts.  The rest is not too difficult such as fanless this or even external that, but just the mobo alone is filled with junk.
   
  But to stay on the point, low budget is simply the $200 and under based cards including of course the ST/STX/and even a $20 card, etc. etc.
   
  Didn't know the X-Fi Titanium was at least as good as the STX or I'd have gotten one when it was blown out on a super low sale price!
   
  Cheers!


----------



## WiR3D

Pardon my ignorance, but with digital your going to bypass the entire reason the ST/x is priced as it is?
   
  I do know the STX has more jitter then the ST, and that it can be relatively easily bettered by using a Audio GD clock/crystal (not sure of the exact term)
  Will this effect the digital outputs? Since jitter is a problem even with SPDIF.
   
  I think this is the most relevant question to be answered in regards to Audioexcels needs.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Asus has one new sound card (Phoebus) coming out soon


 


  Isn't Phoebus going to be a gaming oriented card?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





germanium said:


> No you should not boost it to 100% as you will experience the effects of a built in limiter if you do & they are quite disconcerting to say the least
> boosting to 100% actually is boosting the signal by about 12db over the level of what was recorded digitally & if it is anywhere nearclipping in the original you will for sure be riding that limiter pretty hard. If you get something that was recorded very soft as in averaging 20db down from max value then yuou could boost it somwhat over 76% in order to get it sufficiently loud if it is otherwise too soft with the volume control all the way up but otherwise leave it at 76%.


 

 So if I send my signals out of the card into an amplifier trough RCA,  its better to keep the mixer level at 76% and increase the main volume control to 100%, than to have the mixer levels at 100%, and have the main volume at, say 50%.  I always thought I experienced distortion when going above 50% with main volume control in driver interface...I don't know why, might be placebo because the knob gets into the "red area".


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but with digital your going to bypass the entire reason the ST/x is priced as it is?
> 
> I do know the STX has more jitter then the ST, and that it can be relatively easily bettered by using a Audio GD clock/crystal (not sure of the exact term)
> Will this effect the digital outputs? Since jitter is a problem even with SPDIF.
> ...


 

 Exactly.  It doesn't seem to make much sense in needing to spend the extra money for an ST/x or other similar quality card when I won't even use the majority of the features, but the digital path is indeed something that in theory, has a lot of jitter via coax, so that nicer clock in the ST is said to make a difference to some, but others as already spoken, say there is no difference.  I'm interested in a finite answer to this sound card or any other for the matter that has exceptional jitter control or just exceptional sound via coax only.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Exactly.  It doesn't seem to make much sense in needing to spend the extra money for an ST/x or other similar quality card when I won't even use the majority of the features, but the digital path is indeed something that in theory, has a lot of jitter via coax, so that nicer clock in the ST is said to make a difference to some, but others as already spoken, say there is no difference.  I'm interested in a finite answer to this sound card or any other for the matter that has exceptional jitter control or just exceptional sound via coax only.


 

 Soundcards generally will only offer so much quality for digital as their primary function is analog output.  However, why are you just assuming they will have
  high amounts of jitter?
  If you are looking for something with very precise digital output, look at devices like the Hi-Face, Teralink X2, FSA Bravo...etc
  That's the way I would go, unless you are looking to send DSP effects to your DAC over S/Pdif.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Soundcards generally will only offer so much quality for digital as their primary function is analog output.  However, why are you just assuming they will have
> high amounts of jitter?
> If you are looking for something with very precise digital output, look at devices like the Hi-Face, Teralink X2, FSA Bravo...etc
> That's the way I would go, unless you are looking to send DSP effects to your DAC over S/Pdif.


 


  I need to do more testing with the Hiface, but even a cheap who knows how bad or good the dvd's coax easily beat it in early testing, but sounded more similar when I tested further.  I get a modified Hiface this week so that will be the next test.  I've also had the Audiophilleo AP2 in the setup but it was way too aggressive sounding.  I'm simply thinking USB converters may not be the way to go vs. sound cards???  A friend even swapped out his AP2 for a Xonar ST, but he uses the ST's analog in spite he did say the digital out has excellent sound too.


----------



## WiR3D

TBH i rate if you have the cash to spend Just get the ST.
   
  OR if you have the time, get either one and do the Audio GD mod, that should kill all the jitter, some1 here did it, it looks relatively simple.
  Hell i would even go so far so to say, just get any sound card and do the Audio GD mod and you should be good to go, since the only weakness we have managed to identify (with my limited knowledge) is jitter.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> I need to do more testing with the Hiface, but even a cheap who knows how bad or good the dvd's coax easily beat it in early testing, but sounded more similar when I tested further.  I get a modified Hiface this week so that will be the next test.  I've also had the Audiophilleo AP2 in the setup but it was way too aggressive sounding.  I'm simply thinking USB converters may not be the way to go vs. sound cards???  A friend even swapped out his AP2 for a Xonar ST, but he uses the ST's analog in spite he did say the digital out has excellent sound too.


 
  Not sure why you find that with the hiface, I found them to have excellent S/Pdif quality.  Are you using the proper/latest drivers? There was some talk of certain HiFace units being of higher quality then others.
   
  Interesting you hear all these differences in digital sources, when some suggest it is just "1's and 0's"!    This idea is something people have to hear for themselves or they just think all S/Pdif is the same which is the furthest thing from the truth.
   
  It is up to you which way you want to go, The ST does have a cleaner clock thanks to the addition of the IIRC - CS2000 chip.  This cleaner timing should also affect the digital side since the timing on the board is cleaner all around. 
   
  I would suggest just doing what you are doing, keep testing devices until you find one you like.  It is nice to have the features of the soundcard but these cards have alot of muscle for just S/Pdif usage.


----------



## WiR3D

Well said ROBSCIX, I've seen you in discussions of digital audio before, you mind explaining how bad the jitter can be? Or link to an article explaining it?
   
  I would think that devices would just use buffers to negate the effects of jitter, unless they pretty much stream it and directly send it for conversion...
   
  mmmm well a buffer could add unwanted latency overall, and if its not big enough still suffer from jitter. My theory anyway.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Nope, don't even want to get started down that road!  It is one of those perpetual audio debates that will never end.  You just have to do your own research, testing and draw your own conclusions.  Here is an article that might help explain it a bit better in relation to audio.-> LINK
  You have to understand also that there are different kinds of jitter that affect different parts of a digital system.


----------



## ProjectDenz

So I swapped the two stock opamps with 2x LME49720. I didn't like the sound at all really. Bass lost quite a bit of extension and the treble became overly harsh and aggresive. My ears came completely fatigued after 5 minutes. I tried this with all different types of cans and while darker sounding cans were not affected as much with the harsh treble, the lack of bass extension left much to be desired (talking about extension, not quantity). On the upside I believe that the mids are a little cleaner than the stocks, but the trade off is not worth it at all.
   
  Switched back to the stocks and can't be happier. The bass isn't boomy as others seem to put it, unless you were using headphones with boomy bass in the first place. Although I have other opamps on the way and I will give those a shot.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> So I swapped the two stock opamps with 2x LME49720. I didn't like the sound at all really. Bass lost quite a bit of extension and the treble became overly harsh and aggresive. My ears came completely fatigued after 5 minutes. I tried this with all different types of cans and while darker sounding cans were not affected as much with the harsh treble, the lack of bass extension left much to be desired (talking about extension, not quantity). On the upside I believe that the mids are a little cleaner than the stocks, but the trade off is not worth it at all.
> Switched back to the stocks and can't be happier. The bass isn't boomy as others seem to put it, unless you were using headphones with boomy bass in the first place. Although I have other opamps on the way and I will give those a shot.


 

 Three LME49860NA, they are the same op-amp as the LME49720NAs, but with a better voltage range.
  Under $20 on eBay.
   
  Three AD797BR, (dual chip pre-soldered adapters) $50 on eBay.
   
  Three LME49990NA. (dual chip pre-soldered adapters) $56 on eBay.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> So I swapped the two stock opamps with 2x LME49720. I didn't like the sound at all really. Bass lost quite a bit of extension and the treble became overly harsh and aggresive. My ears came completely fatigued after 5 minutes. I tried this with all different types of cans and while darker sounding cans were not affected as much with the harsh treble, the lack of bass extension left much to be desired (talking about extension, not quantity). On the upside I believe that the mids are a little cleaner than the stocks, but the trade off is not worth it at all.
> 
> Switched back to the stocks and can't be happier. The bass isn't boomy as others seem to put it, unless you were using headphones with boomy bass in the first place. Although I have other opamps on the way and I will give those a shot.


 


 Yeah I'm one of those the bass is boomy people... Denon d2000 so its to be expected, let me know when you find a chip that cuts the harshness and the boomyness


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> So if I send my signals out of the card into an amplifier trough RCA,  its better to keep the mixer level at 76% and increase the main volume control to 100%, than to have the mixer levels at 100%, and have the main volume at, say 50%.  I always thought I experienced distortion when going above 50% with main volume control in driver interface...I don't know why, might be placebo because the knob gets into the "red area".


 

 I was speaking of not setting the balance controls over 76%. otherwise you will experience limiting. If you leave the balance controls at 76% you will have full use of the volume control without limiting, in other words you can turn the volume control to 100% without limiting, just do not turn the balance control past 76% except under the following condition. If you have music that is recorded too soft where 100% volume doesn't yield sufficient voume then boost the balance controls up but only as far as needed to get sufficient volume


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Not sure why you find that with the hiface, I found them to have excellent S/Pdif quality.  Are you using the proper/latest drivers? There was some talk of certain HiFace units being of higher quality then others.
> 
> Interesting you hear all these differences in digital sources, when some suggest it is just "1's and 0's"!    This idea is something people have to hear for themselves or they just think all S/Pdif is the same which is the furthest thing from the truth.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Understand what you and others say about all the muscle/guts sound cards have, but Hiface is "ok"...nothing special at all.  Other stuff has been "ok", but nothing special either.  I do think there are differences with digital sources, but end of day, I have never heard one ever "add" resolution or anything I have not heard already.  I have heard some with greater emphasis on detail so old people can hear music they never thought they heard, but just don't remember that they really did when they were younger and were listening to 20 years outdated stuff that was doing the same exact thing.  Really, I think there is something there with the source for the digital, but at the same time, I would really need a TON of different devices to truly know if I can hear an audible enough difference meaning, one that is more transparent/revealing of the information OR if all it is in the end is one has more detail (i.e. sounds like equalized treble or midrange or bass), has this type of sound stage, etc. etc.  Maybe my existing preamp+dac in one is so good that it has not revealed such grand differences, but rather very subtle ones and that even with some incredible source others claim is incredible, I still may not hear it or it may just be overly aggressive or dark or you know, detail/tonality differences.
   
  Hope I am making a little sense and of course, have tried both Hiface drivers.  I think the one does have a little more of a sound closer to a cheapo DVD player while the other has a sound that is a big more bloated/bigger bass type of sound, but these differences are truly very subtle at most...nothing that would get me to say oh that is the one, etc.  I've also used the Audiophilleo 2 and it was AWEFUL sounding in my system...extreme aggressive midrange-high section that was unbearably horrid...


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Understand what you and others say about all the muscle/guts sound cards have, but Hiface is "ok"...nothing special at all.  Other stuff has been "ok", but nothing special either.  I do think there are differences with digital sources, but end of day, I have never heard one ever "add" resolution or anything I have not heard already.  I have heard some with greater emphasis on detail so old people can hear music they never thought they heard, but just don't remember that they really did when they were younger and were listening to 20 years outdated stuff that was doing the same exact thing.  Really, I think there is something there with the source for the digital, but at the same time, I would really need a TON of different devices to truly know if I can hear an audible enough difference meaning, one that is more transparent/revealing of the information OR if all it is in the end is one has more detail (i.e. sounds like equalized treble or midrange or bass), has this type of sound stage, etc. etc.  Maybe my existing preamp+dac in one is so good that it has not revealed such grand differences, but rather very subtle ones and that even with some incredible source others claim is incredible, I still may not hear it or it may just be overly aggressive or dark or you know, detail/tonality differences.
> 
> Hope I am making a little sense and of course, have tried both Hiface drivers.  I think the one does have a little more of a sound closer to a cheapo DVD player while the other has a sound that is a big more bloated/bigger bass type of sound, but these differences are truly very subtle at most...nothing that would get me to say oh that is the one, etc.  I've also used the Audiophilleo 2 and it was AWEFUL sounding in my system...extreme aggressive midrange-high section that was unbearably horrid...


 
  I have heard difference in digital sources.  Your mileage may vary.
 I am not really interested in arguing these points, use what you want.  I don't think I ever said these sources can add what is not there?!
  A good digital source will let you hear what you have nothing more.  Anyway, this is pretty far off topic, the idea was not buying an expensive soundcard just to get a good digital source.


----------



## Shoulon

How do you guys narrow down on OPAMPs? Theres well over thousands of choices out there. Could I get some reference links or something possibly? like a OPAMP for noobs? lol


----------



## PurpleAngel

shoulon said:


> How do you guys narrow down on OP-AMPs? There's well over thousands of choices out there. Could I get some reference links or something possibly? like a OP-AMP for noobs? lol


 

 Head-Fi has "The Opamp Thread" thread.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





robscix said:


> I have heard difference in digital sources.  Your mileage may vary.
> I am not really interested in arguing these points, use what you want.  I don't think I ever said these sources can add what is not there?!
> A good digital source will let you hear what you have nothing more.  Anyway, this is pretty far off topic, the idea was not buying an expensive soundcard just to get a good digital source.


 


  Right, but 99% agree the ST is superior sounding as a digital source vs. the STX.  Are you arguing that a budget card is just as good and other people have poor hearing or just have an initial reaction that makes them think what they are hearing is better when it may just be the signal being passed may be hotter/higher voltage from the ST vs. the STX?  I asked the questions I have asked because I'd love to spend $30 on the lowest end Xonar card if it is no different sounding or subtle at most than both ST/STX.  BTW, the Xonar ST/STX are both extremely low budget cards. Even RME is a low-mid budget card.  Lynx being a mid-budget card.  And so on.
   
  Sorry to go off-topic, but if this thread wants more info, diyaudio has an ST/STX thread going on also.

 Cheers!


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Right, but 99% agree the ST is superior sounding as a digital source vs. the STX.  Are you arguing that a budget card is just as good and other people have poor hearing or just have an initial reaction that makes them think what they are hearing is better when it may just be the signal being passed may be hotter/higher voltage from the ST vs. the STX?  I asked the questions I have asked because I'd love to spend $30 on the lowest end Xonar card if it is no different sounding or subtle at most than both ST/STX.  BTW, the Xonar ST/STX are both extremely low budget cards. Even RME is a low-mid budget card.  Lynx being a mid-budget card.  And so on.
> 
> Sorry to go off-topic, but if this thread wants more info, diyaudio has an ST/STX thread going on also.
> 
> Cheers!


 
  Actually I am not arguing at all.  I am trying to figure out what you are saying.  Personally, I know there are differences in digital sources.  The signals from both cards are the same, they are line level standard.  The ST doesn't offer hotter signals.
   
  I would suggest the differences people hear from the ST Vs STX is from the low jitter master clock since the ST has an extra cleanup chip aside from that they are basically identical cards.
   
  You can buy many different S/Pdif sources for around the same price as either of these cards, but you get the added addition of the effects if you want them and ASIO.  buy what you want, your choice.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Actually I am not arguing at all.  I am trying to figure out what you are saying.  Personally, I know there are differences in digital sources.  The signals from both cards are the same, they are line level standard.  The ST doesn't offer hotter signals.
> 
> I would suggest the differences people hear from the ST Vs STX is from the low jitter master clock since the ST has an extra cleanup chip aside from that they are basically identical cards.
> 
> You can buy many different S/Pdif sources for around the same price as either of these cards, but you get the added addition of the effects if you want them and ASIO.  buy what you want, your choice.


 

  
  What i just witnessed (not this message per say but the last few) is an unfortunate side effect of type as a medium of communication, namely the difficulty to converse tone, which can lead to disagreements that were not intentional, i dont think you or *Audioexcels* meant any disrespect or harm to each other, but i feel it needs to stated in an obvious manner by a neutral party, namely me.
   
  On-T@*Audioexcels*: the asus products have a few nice features, Dolby Digital and Headphone among a few. So that does place it above other sources in my books, I would say get the ST, or the STX and doing the Audio GD mod, it is still a viable option if your a modder.
  Not be rude or blatant, but it seems you have the money to spend, so just pend it, i do think your over thinking it. You will be happy with the ST I am sure.
   
  peace


----------



## Matter

Hi all,
   
  I am having a tough time deciding between the dedicated soundcards mainly the STX/Titanium HD or an external amp/dac like the Nuforce HDP. Portability isn't an issue and I have a huge case (CoolerMaster HAF X) with plenty of spare pcie slots.
   
  Is the DAC on the soundcard still relevant in today's context considering these cards are released 2+ years ago.
   
  Just not too sure if I should get the ASUS STX now since a friend of mine is letting his 4 mth old card go for ~$130 with 2x LME49720NA and 1x LM6172IN op-amps.
   
  WIll be getting a pair of HD600s in the near future and when that time comes I will probably be getting a decent tube amp and use the soundcard as a DAC, if I'm heading in the soundcard direction. If not I suppose the HDP will be able to do the job sufficiently well if I do get it.
   
  Hope to hear some comments with regards to this dilemma of mine.
   
   
  Thank you!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





matter said:


> I am having a tough time deciding between the dedicated soundcards mainly the STX/Titanium HD or an external amp/dac like the Nuforce HDP. Portability isn't an issue and I have a huge case (CoolerMaster HAF X) with plenty of spare pcie slots.
> Is the DAC on the sound card still relevant in today's context considering these cards are released 2+ years ago.
> Just not too sure if I should get the ASUS STX now since a friend of mine is letting his 4 mth old card go for ~$130 with 2x LME49720NA and 1x LM6172IN op-amps.
> WIll be getting a pair of HD600s in the near future and when that time comes I will probably be getting a decent tube amp and use the sound card as a DAC, if I'm heading in the sound card direction. If not I suppose the HDP will be able to do the job sufficiently well if I do get it.


 
  Are you gaming? movie watching? music? on your computer.
  That is a fair price for a four month old Essence STX.
  I do not think your going to find a better DAC built into a sound card.
  (I use 3 LME49860NA op-amps in my STX)
  The STX should be good enough to power the Senn HD600 on it's own.
  Using the STX's DAC for the external headphone amp. is good idea.


----------



## Matter

purpleangel said:


> Are you gaming? movie watching? music? on your computer.
> That is a fair price for a four month old Essence STX.
> I do not think your going to find a better DAC built into a sound card.
> (I use 3 LME49860NA op-amps in my STX)
> ...




Using it more for music listening and movies since i no longer game as much now. 
So its more of a general purpose dac really. 
Just really torn between the titanium hd and the asus stx since the tihd is being sold at 139 at amazon and newegg atm. 
Also, is the dac on the soundcards comparable to any other external dacs in the 200-300 region? 

Anyway, How does the 3x 49860 compare to the above mentioned set up on my friend's card? 


Thanks.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





matter said:


> Using it more for music listening and movies since i no longer game as much now.
> So its more of a general purpose DAC really.
> Just really torn between the Titanium HD and the Asus STX since the Ti-HD is being sold at 139 at amazon and Newegg atm.
> Also, is the DAC on the sound cards comparable to any other external DACs in the 200-300 region?
> ...


 
  The STX and T-HD are about equal to each other, the T-HD is the better gaming card (FPS).
  STX's DAC is the 1793, the T-HD uses the 1794
  The STX comes with a true headphone amplifier, the T-HD does not, but the T-HD still does a fairly decent job of powering headphones.
  I'm sure a $300 external stand alone DAC is better then what the STX & T-HD offer.
  But a standalone DAC does not offer surround sound for movies.
  I prefer the Essence STX because I found the Asus software offers everything i need and is easier to fix if there are problems.
  I like the LME49860NA op-amps, but i swapped them into my STX about two days after buying the STX., So I can't honestly compare to other op-amps.
  I've got some AD797BR op-amps shipping from China I'm going to try (it takes 3 weeks).


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The STX and T-HD are about equal to each other, the T-HD is the better gaming card (FPS).
> STX's DAC is the 1793, the T-HD uses the 1794
> The STX comes with a true headphone amplifier, the T-HD does not, but the T-HD still does a fairly decent job of powering headphones.
> I'm sure a $300 external stand alone DAC is better then what the STX & T-HD offer.
> ...


 

  
  How is the Asus software easier to fix?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roller said:


> How is the Asus software easier to fix?


 

 The Xonar software seems only to take a minute to download and a minute to install.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Xonar software seems only to take a minute to download and a minute to install.


 


  Ah, so that has nothing to do with actually fixing things, you're only talking about file size and installation time.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roller said:


> Ah, so that has nothing to do with actually fixing things, you're only talking about file size and installation time.


 
  There are other reasons, just did not feel like going through the list.
  Beside I already laid out my reasons when i went by the username Tacoboy.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> There are other reasons, just did not feel like going through the list.
> Beside I already laid out my reasons when i went by the username Tacoboy.


 

  
  You didn't post any reasons at all. File size and installation time have nothing to do with fixing any issues, issues that you haven't even mentioned.
   
  EDIT: It's like saying that x headphones are bad because you take 5 minutes to unpack them instead of 4.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roller said:


> You didn't post any reasons at all. File size and installation time have nothing to do with fixing any issues, issues that you haven't even mentioned.
> EDIT: It's like saying that x headphones are bad because you take 5 minutes to unpack them instead of 4.


 
  Go back and reread everything I wrote before.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Go back and reread everything I wrote before.


 


  200 pages? I don't think so.
   
  If you don't care to validate your statement by actually posting real facts on Asus software being more easily fixable when compared to Creative software, don't bother.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roller said:


> 200 pages? I don't think so.
> If you don't care to validate your statement by actually posting real facts on Asus software being more easily fixable when compared to Creative software, don't bother.


 
  Nope.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> What i just witnessed (not this message per say but the last few) is an unfortunate side effect of type as a medium of communication, namely the difficulty to converse tone, which can lead to disagreements that were not intentional, i dont think you or *Audioexcels* meant any disrespect or harm to each other, but i feel it needs to stated in an obvious manner by a neutral party, namely me.
> 
> On-T@*Audioexcels*: the asus products have a few nice features, Dolby Digital and Headphone among a few. So that does place it above other sources in my books, I would say get the ST, or the STX and doing the Audio GD mod, it is still a viable option if your a modder.
> Not be rude or blatant, but it seems you have the money to spend, so just pend it, i do think your over thinking it. You will be happy with the ST I am sure.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks to both you and ROBSCIX.  I went ahead with the ST version in spite my motherboard uses ALL PCI-E.  It is coming from Amazon so I can always refuse it and grab an STX along with the Audio GD parts to solder onto the STX board OR wait for the newest gen cards w/same clocking but w/native PCI-E vs. converted PCI to PCI-E as is the case with the STX.  From all I have read, the ST does in fact have the better jitter and easily discernible sound even via digital only.
   
  To answer some questions about use of an external dac vs. the onboard dac of the STX, my friend owns an ST with zero modifications and it was close enough (subtle differences) to a $1500 dac that is raved about as being in the top 5 dacs produced in year 2011, and competitive with mega buck options in reviews.  He was using an integrated Triode amp so maybe that bit of gain and having it directly connected to a very nice amp is the key here.  Now he runs a preamp and bypasses the internal one in the amplifier and gets very very clean sound through the ST.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Nope.


 


  It's a shame that posting unsubstanciated opinions don't warrant for anything worth reading in the long run. So, avoid posting fluff in the future.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> _snipped_


 


  I'm sure it will do nicely, also dont forget to try the UNI-drivers if you dont like the stock, personally I dont mind either, but run both 
   
  I'm probably going to do the AudioGD mod myself, I THINK I read sumwhere that taming jitter my help with harshness, and ill be damned if I'm going to continue to listen to my beloved Denon D2k like this, (still need an impedance cable and sum opamps tho)


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I'm sure it will do nicely, also dont forget to try the UNI-drivers if you dont like the stock, personally I dont mind either, but run both
> 
> I'm probably going to do the AudioGD mod myself, I THINK I read sumwhere that taming jitter my help with harshness, and ill be damned if I'm going to continue to listen to my beloved Denon D2k like this, (still need an impedance cable and sum opamps tho)


 


  Where do you get the AudioGD parts from and how much are they?  I had recalled that soon there will be a PCI-E native of this and a couple of other cards coming out.  Maybe it makes sense to just go with one of them?  My personal take on jitter control is that it is all system dependent and also how our ears hear it, what cables we are using, etc. etc.  I heard the Audiophilleo in my system and it was literally unbearable to listen to.  But in a different system, besides bad treble sound, it was super laid back/mellow...so I have no clue why or how this happens, but I do think some jitter control can help.  A LOT?...well, that may be unnecessary or irrelevant, even worse for our system/tastes/etc.


----------



## ROBSCIX

You get the Audio-GD parts, from Audio-GD.  They are a small company that sells audio components.  Here is a link to their site-> LINK


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Where do you get the AudioGD parts from and how much are they?  I had recalled that soon there will be a PCI-E native of this and a couple of other cards coming out.  Maybe it makes sense to just go with one of them?  My personal take on jitter control is that it is all system dependent and also how our ears hear it, what cables we are using, etc. etc.  I heard the Audiophilleo in my system and it was literally unbearable to listen to.  But in a different system, besides bad treble sound, it was super laid back/mellow...so I have no clue why or how this happens, but I do think some jitter control can help.  A LOT?...well, that may be unnecessary or irrelevant, even worse for our system/tastes/etc.


 
   
  True that, well I'm after a non-harsh, smooth (almost sunday chilled vibe) with lots of clarity and soundstage, bass should be +1 or +2 above balanced (if +4 is Hisound POP level, and +5 just destroys all the other frequencies.) so i think i'm going to be relatively busy.
   
  With my Denon d2k it will be tricky, possibly easier with my AKG K242HD on the way


----------



## ProjectDenz

I don't think the ST can drive my DT880 (250Ohm) properly, it only sounds marginally better/more neutral than my DT440.
   
  Yes I tried max gain settings as well.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> I don't think the ST can drive my DT880 (250Ohm) properly, it only sounds marginally better/more neutral than my DT440.
> 
> Yes I tried max gain settings as well.


 


   
   
  Is it not loud enough or...?
  I think ST might like the 600 Ohm version better than 250 Ohm. ST has a quite high output impedance on the headphone jack, so you'd get a much better damping factor with 600 Ohm version. I've tried my friends DT770 600 Ohm version a few weeks back when I wanted to buy DT990, and wasn't sure which version to get, since I thought 600 Ohm will be too hard to drive. Well, it appeared to me that DT770 were plenty loud even compared to HD650, and they didn't feel like there's not enough power fed into them.


----------



## ProjectDenz

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Is it not loud enough or...?
> I think ST might like the 600 Ohm version better than 250 Ohm. ST has a quite high output impedance on the headphone jack, so you'd get a much better damping factor with 600 Ohm version. I've tried my friends DT770 600 Ohm version a few weeks back when I wanted to buy DT990, and wasn't sure which version to get, since I thought 600 Ohm will be too hard to drive. Well, it appeared to me that DT770 were plenty loud even compared to HD650, and they didn't feel like there's not enough power fed into them.


 

 It might be the sound signature of the DT800 but coming from the DT440 it feels like a bit of energy is being lost. It feels a bit more laid back and neutral. Bass is slightly light, but tight. Midrange is fine and the treble feels nicely extended. Details and clarity certainly feel a very little bit better than the DT440 but the vocals feel a little sluggish. My main issue here is that there isn't much of a step up here in SQ and feels more like a sidegrade. I'm wondering if it's a sound signature issue in the end but talking to others who owned the STX they say that a good dedicated amp seems to power them more properly and sound better than with the STX's amp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> True that, well I'm after a non-harsh, smooth (almost Sunday chilled vibe) with lots of clarity and sound stage, bass should be +1 or +2 above balanced (if +4 is Hisound POP level, and +5 just destroys all the other frequencies.) so i think i'm going to be relatively busy.
> With my Denon d2k it will be tricky, possibly easier with my AKG K242HD on the way


 

 Please post your impressions on the AKG K242HD, for one thing is was it made in Austria or China?
  I'm thinking of ordering the K242HD from Thomann in the UK (I'm in California).


----------



## mataso

Hello all, I'm looking for LME49860 on my Xonar ST. Found that you mentioned LME49860NA, but in my local store I also found LME49860MA and LME49860NA/MA NOPB OPAMPS:
  http://www.lemona.lt/index.php?page=search&filter=0&q=LME4986&option=0
  What are the differences between these? LME49860NA is everything what I need?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mataso said:


> Hello all, I'm looking for LME49860 on my Xonar ST. Found that you mentioned LME49860NA, but in my local store I also found LME49860MA and LME49860NA/MA NOPB OPAMPS:
> http://www.lemona.lt/index.php?page=search&filter=0&q=LME4986&option=0
> What are the differences between these? LME49860NA is everything what I need?


 
  The LME49860MA is a SOIC op-amps, means it needs to be soldered to something.
  NOPB is lead free, No Pb
  So you want the LME49860NA (or LME49860NA/NOPB) which is the DIP-8 (socketed) op-amp.
   
  So, you are all the way over in Lithuania?


----------



## mataso

For now I'm just looking, didn't purchase any of them. Big difference between w Pb & w/o Pb?
  If I only want to improve sound over Edifier 2.0 setup, I need to change buffer OPAMP? I/V don't touch?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mataso said:


> For now I'm just looking, didn't purchase any of them. Big difference between w Pb & w/o Pb?
> If I only want to improve sound over Edifier 2.0 setup, I need to change buffer OPAMP? I/V don't touch?


 
  Between the w/Pb & w/o PB, just get whatever is cheaper.
  It's safer to use three matching op-amps.
  I believe I/Vs are more for the headphone output and the buffer affects speaker.
  But It's been awhile since I've done any reading on the buffers & I/Vs
   
  Some sellers (nooelec?)on eBay will ship four LME49860NAs to you for $18.50 (US), they are located in New York.


----------



## mataso

Talking about buffers & I/V I also found this in the first thread page. NOPB is almost 2x cheaper than regular NA. Maybe there is better OPAMPS than LME49860NA? Not talking about LME49990MA - it's too difficult to prepare them, I just want OPAMPS that I need to install like push/pull, no soldering and so on.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mataso said:


> Talking about buffers & I/V I also found this in the first thread page. NOPB is almost 2x cheaper than regular NA. Maybe there is better OPAMPS than LME49860NA? Not talking about LME49990MA - it's too difficult to prepare them, I just want OP-AMPS that I need to install like push/pull, no soldering and so on.


 
  Yes there are better op-amps then the LME49860NA, but I'm trying to stick to op-amps (DIP-8) I know.
  Check the "The Opamp Thread" thread, more informed people there.


----------



## mataso

PurpleAngel, comparing with stock STX op-amps, do 3x LME49860NA produce more bass?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Please post your impressions on the AKG K242HD, for one thing is was it made in Austria or China?
> I'm thinking of ordering the K242HD from Thomann in the UK (I'm in California).


 


 Austria  i ordered from Thomann, good service, but I dont like DHL much, I will post impressions, i still dont think they will be ideal because they are only 55ohm, but they will be better then the denon


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mataso said:


> PurpleAngel, comparing with stock STX op-amps, do 3x LME49860NA produce more bass?


 
  Hard to say, I swapped out the op-amps two days after getting the STX, so I do not remember what the stock op-amps sound like.
  Now lots of Essence users have replaced the two (I/V) JRC2114 op-amps with the LME49720NA and liked the change.
  The LME49860NA and LME49720NA (& LM4652) are the same op-amp. the LME49860NA is the cherry picks of the LME49720NA, the LME49860NA has a better voltage range.


----------



## mataso

Haven't tried not 3x but 2x LME49860NA?


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





mataso said:


> Haven't tried not 3x but 2x LME49860NA?


 


  Third one only affects RCA Line Out so if you only planning to use headphones out it will make no difference


----------



## Matter

So I have decided to get the STX but I'm not a DIY guy so there is going to be an issue with me installing this card on my motherboard.
  Any idea where I can get the 4 pin power connector required to power the card from?
  I assume I have to get a new cable to plug into my PSU out to the soundcard?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## stv014

You will need something like this.


----------



## Matter

Thanks but where do I connect this to? Lol sorry I'm just really pathetic when it comes to such technical stuff.
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> You will need something like this.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





matter said:


> Thanks but where do I connect this to? Lol sorry I'm just really pathetic when it comes to such technical stuff.


 


  You should get the manual with instructions on how to install the card inside the box.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

I am going to ask even though it has probably been answered 356236456235 times: Is the D/A converter in the STX adequate enough to act as a dedicated source and line out to an amp like say... the Little Dot MkV or MkVII?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> I am going to ask even though it has probably been answered 356236456235 times: Is the D/A converter in the STX adequate enough to act as a dedicated source and line out to an amp like say... the Little Dot MkV or MkVII?


 
   
  The ST/STX have a very good DAC (and ADC, see tests here and here), so you can use the card as a high quality source unless it is affected by interference/grounding/etc. problems specific to your system, which can be heard as noise when no music is played.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> I am going to ask even though it has probably been answered 356236456235 times: Is the D/A converter in the STX adequate enough to act as a dedicated source and line out to an amp like say... the Little Dot MkV or MkVII?


 


   
  Yes, its one of the best sounding DAC/source solutions under 300 dollars.


----------



## PurpleAngel

matter said:


> So I have decided to get the STX but I'm not a DIY guy so there is going to be an issue with me installing this card on my motherboard.
> Any idea where I can get the 4 pin power connector required to power the card from?
> I assume I have to get a new cable to plug into my PSU out to the sound card?


 

 Most power supplies in computers usually come with enough power connecters, did you look inside the computer case.
  If you do not have the manual, you can download it from the Asus website, Asus has a forum where you can post questions.


----------



## MattTCG

I bought this LME49860NA x3 for $10 bucks ebay. Sounded very similar...not quite as good as stock. Disappointed. I was hoping for some noticeable difference really. It was almost exactly the same. Not sure I did something wrong.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I bought this LME49860NA x3 for $10 bucks eBay. Sounded very similar...not quite as good as stock. Disappointed. I was hoping for some noticeable difference really. It was almost exactly the same. Not sure I did something wrong.


 
   
  I doubt you did anything wrong.
  Try using them for a week, then switch back. Then see what your ears tell you.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I bought this LME49860NA x3 for $10 bucks ebay. Sounded very similar...not quite as good as stock. Disappointed. I was hoping for some noticeable difference really. It was almost exactly the same. Not sure I did something wrong.


 
   
  Also what headphones are you using them with, Amps aswell?


----------



## WiR3D

I created a list of impedance adapters for non-DIYers trying to use low impedance phones such as the D2k.
  I havent quite figured what will be good for the D2k though...
   
  Judging but what i read the 600ohm beyers perform better then the 250ohm ones, and according to the article by NwAvGuy, the rule is the minimum _EDIT: required (i.e maximum allowed) _output impedance should be 1/8th of the headphones impedance, and the desired is 1/25th.
   
  By that logic with the D2k you want 250ohm of resistance. So im trying to figure if i should just go for 600ohm, or what?!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Judging but what i read the 600ohm beyers perform better then the 250ohm ones, and according to the article by NwAvGuy, the rule is the minimum output impedance should be 1/8th of the headphones impedance, and the desires is 1/25th.


 
   
  Actually, it is the maximum that should be 1/8th, i.e. for a 32 Ohm headphone, 4 Ohm or lower. However, it is possible that the high impedance (250 and 600 Ohm, but not the 32 and 80 Ohm models) Beyerdynamic headphones are actually optimized for high impedance (100 or 120 Ohm) sources, especially since their own A1 amplifier has an output impedance of 100 Ohm. This would also explain why the 250 Ohm versions of both the DTxx0 series and the T70 have a slightly "thinner" sound than the others from the same low impedance source.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Actually, it is the maximum that should be 1/8th, i.e. for a 32 Ohm headphone, 4 Ohm or lower. However, it is possible that the high impedance (250 and 600 Ohm, but not the 32 and 80 Ohm models) Beyerdynamic headphones are actually optimized for high impedance (100 or 120 Ohm) sources, especially since their own A1 amplifier has an output impedance of 100 Ohm. This would also explain why the 250 Ohm versions of both the DTxx0 series and the T70 have a slightly "thinner" sound than the others from the same low impedance source.


 

 I phrased it horribly, but yeah, thats what i meant. wow 100ohm? Thats horrible, but if it works, it works i guess.
   
  Still doesn't answer my question tho, should i go for a 200ohm or 600ohm impedance adapter? And will it have any negative side effects on headphones or soundcard?
   
  Heres the logic, low impedance cans generally use more current(correct?) and high impedance more voltage(correct?) i know the STX is capable of high voltage, as someone stated previously, so I am less worried about that, but more about my headphones.
  If i increase the resistance will it feed more voltage to my headphones? Or will they just drop volume until you feed them the current they require?


----------



## stv014

If the adapter consists of a simple serial resistor per channel, then it is basically just added to the output impedance. For example, using a 120 Ohm adapter will result in 130 Ohm total output impedance. This reduces the voltage on the headphones (making them quieter, but also less noisy), and reduces the damping factor as well.
  If you want to decrease the impedance for the Denons, it is more tricky, and needs both a serial and a parallel resistor per channel. This does waste a lot of power, though. For example, a 20 Ohm serial and 4.7 Ohm parallel resistor would reduce the effective output impedance to about 4 Ohm, but increase the voltage requirement to a level comparable to that of the 600 Ohm DT880, while the card still has to drive a similarly low impedance load as the D2000 itself.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> If the adapter consists of a simple serial resistor per channel, then it is basically just added to the output impedance. For example, using a 120 Ohm adapter will result in 130 Ohm total output impedance. This reduces the voltage on the headphones (making them quieter, but also less noisy), and reduces the damping factor as well.
> If you want to decrease the impedance for the Denons, it is more tricky, and needs both a serial and a parallel resistor per channel. This does waste a lot of power, though. For example, a 20 Ohm serial and 4.7 Ohm parallel resistor would reduce the effective output impedance to about 4 Ohm, but increase the voltage requirement to a level comparable to that of the 600 Ohm DT880, while the card still has to drive a similarly low impedance load as the D2000 itself.


 


 Could you elaborate? I find this interesting, I did previously come across a statement where it was said that using an impedance adapter adds to the output impedance of the amp and not to the total impedance of the headphones, but the number of statements for the latter outnumbered the former.
   
  I would like very much to either increase the resistance of my headphones which now doesn't seem possible, or decrease the output resistance of the soundcard, without losing quality.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Could you elaborate? I find this interesting, I did previously come across a statement where it was said that using an impedance adapter adds to the output impedance of the amp and not to the total impedance of the headphones, but the number of statements for the latter outnumbered the former.


 

 You cannot really increase the impedance of the headphones for the purpose of improving electrical damping, other than by getting a different model (or higher impedance drivers, if possible). Regardless of the above interpretations, adding serial resistance anywhere (in the amplifier, the cable, or the voice coil) while keeping the headphone otherwise unchanged reduces the electrical damping effect. For lower resistance/more damping you need one of the following:
    - a better amplifier with low output impedance
    - a transformer (not practical, and can affect the sound quality)
    - the above mentioned type of adapter with parallel resistors; this is not ideal either, as the impedance still remains relatively high, and it wastes power


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> You cannot really increase the impedance of the headphones for the purpose of improving electrical damping, other than by getting a different model (or higher impedance drivers, if possible). Regardless of the above interpretations, adding serial resistance anywhere (in the amplifier, the cable, or the voice coil) while keeping the headphone otherwise unchanged reduces the electrical damping effect. For lower resistance/more damping you need one of the following:
> - a better amplifier with low output impedance
> - a transformer (not practical, and can affect the sound quality)
> - the above mentioned type of adapter with parallel resistors; this is not ideal either, as the impedance still remains relatively high, and it wastes power


 
   
  Thank you for the explanation, well it seems the third option is the most practical.
  I dont really care for wasting power, ideally I would want the output impedance at 1 ohm, but anything 4 ohm and under will be fine for this experiment.
  The question of power is, how much can I waste before I have too little volume.
   
  Also why those specific impedances on the resistors?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also why those specific ratings?


 
   
  With these resistors, the overall output impedance is reduced to about 4 Ohm, the load impedance to the amplifier remains similar to the original impedance of the headphones (~24 Ohm), and the maximum SPL is still above 110 dB. Although the TPA6120 will have to output more current for the same volume, so it will run hotter, and the distortion may also be increased slightly. On the other hand, if there was any audible noise, it should be fixed/improved. The 20 Ohm resistor could also be replaced with a 24 Ohm one, for slightly higher load impedance.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> With these resistors, the overall output impedance is reduced to about 4 Ohm, the load impedance to the amplifier remains similar to the original impedance of the headphones (~24 Ohm), and the maximum SPL is still above 110 dB. Although the TPA6120 will have to output more current for the same volume, so it will run hotter, and the distortion may also be increased slightly. On the other hand, if there was any audible noise, it should be fixed/improved. The 20 Ohm resistor could also be replaced with a 24 Ohm one, for slightly higher load impedance.


 

 Thanks for all the help, i paraphrased all the information, and created a thread to distinguish the differences, and explain impedance adapters (increasing and decreasing)
 Impedance Adapters/Cables | Explained & Listed


----------



## PurpleAngel

My ten AD797BR (20 chips) adapters (dual SOIC to DIP-8) arrived from China.
  Installed three into my Essence STX, I'm sure there is only about 1mm between the top of the adapters and the Essence STXs shield cover.
  I'm sure they are not fake AD797BRs, the sound at least matches my LME49860NAs.
  (I think Heavy Metal's Takn' a Ride sounds a little better/clearer then normal).
  I have several different model headphones I'm going to be testing (movies and music) the AD797BRs with.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> My ten AD797BR (20 chips) adapters (dual SOIC to DIP-8) arrived from China.
> Installed three into my Essence STX, I'm sure there is only about 1mm between the top of the adapters and the Essence STXs shield cover.
> I'm sure they are not fake AD797BRs, the sound at least matches my LME49860NAs.
> (I think Heavy Metal's Takn' a Ride sounds a little better/clearer then normal).
> I have several different model headphones I'm going to be testing (movies and music) the AD797BRs with.


 

 Thats Alot of chips, which would you say have the most balanced response, with a big (note not k70x giant) soundstage, and with butter smooth highs?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Thats Alot of chips, which would you say have the most balanced response, with a big (note not k70x giant) sound stage, and with butter smooth highs?


 

 Listening to Another Brick in the Wall (FLAC), using the AKG K242HDs, does sound nice, the AKG K242HD have a nice mid range.
  Will do more testing in the morning, when I'm more awake.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Listening to Another Brick in the Wall (FLAC), using the AKG K242HDs, does sound nice, the AKG K242HD have a nice mid range.
> Will do more testing in the morning, when I'm more awake.


 

 So far with mine male vocals are a bit recessed, but then again when i got them the entire midrange was laid back, so that could still change.


----------



## mataso

Which adapter do I need for 2x LME49990MA?
  1)http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-SOP8-SO8-SOIC8-SOT-to-DIP8-adapter-PCB-convertor-/320824918111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2a7c05f
  or
  2)http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Dual-SOIC-to-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-/320824421618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2a02cf2


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mataso said:


> Which adapter do I need for 2x LME49990MA?
> 1)http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-SOP8-SO8-SOIC8-SOT-to-DIP8-adapter-PCB-convertor-/320824918111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2a7c05f
> or
> 2)http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Dual-SOIC-to-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-/320824421618?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab2a02cf2


 
  I believe they are both have the same function, but use slightly different PCB designs and they just each use different ways marking the same thing.
  I do like they way the first ones are marked (bolder white) better then the second.
  The first ones just uses a small white dot to show where pin #1 is.
  The second one shows were pins 1,4,5,8 are.
  But I'm far from an expert on these.
   
  Personally, I would buy the pre-soldered adapters for $18.50 each, off eBay.
  Those things are tiny (the LME49990 op-amp itself).
  Currently I have 10 LME49990MA op-amps for making 5 adapters and have spent $54 for all parts
  and I'm still having problem finding (and buying) a decent work stand to hold them for soldering.


----------



## mataso

As I understand the first one is single adapter (one sided but 2 in quantity), so they are not go. Second are dual adapters (two sided also 2 in quantity). I'm not going to solder myself, it will be done by electrotechnics store


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mataso said:


> As I understand the first one is single adapter (one sided but 2 in quantity), so they are not go. Second are dual adapters (two sided also 2 in quantity). I'm not going to solder myself, it will be done by electrotechnics store


 
  I can see that now, they used "2x" in both listing, adds to confusion.
  Better if the first listing said "2 pieces, single sided".
  I had ordered 10 pieces of dual sided adapters that look the same as those single sided ones in the first ad.


----------



## Matter

I just installed the stx into my rig and WOW, I can hear such a HUGE night and day difference in sound quality as compared to the onboard audio on my asus maximus 4 extreme-z motherboard.
  What an awesome product! Really glad I got it.
  Still using the default op amps and it seems to work pretty well for me as I'm comfortable with its sound signature.
  Might order the other recommended op amps soon to try.
   
  All in all, a pretty amazing piece of equipment!


----------



## Praeceps

Hey guys I'm kind of having trouble with my Essence ST, I'm trying to set up the RCA output but I'm not getting any sound, my setup is like this, Essence ST > RCA to RCA > M-Stage Amp > HD 650. I've got it set as 2 speakers in the xonar audio center, that is what you have to choose for RCA right? Is there any more settings I should do?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





praeceps said:


> Hey guys I'm kind of having trouble with my Essence ST, I'm trying to set up the RCA output but I'm not getting any sound, my setup is like this, Essence ST > RCA to RCA > M-Stage Amp > HD 650. I've got it set as 2 speakers in the Xonar audio center, that is what you have to choose for RCA right? Is there any more settings I should do?


 
  When I bought my used Essence STX, I got zero sound out of it, turned out to be one of the three op-amps (the buffer op-amp) was not seated all the way.
  Just had to remove the shield cover and press down on the op-amp to get it full seated.


----------



## Praeceps

Thanks for the reply, does it make any difference that the headphone jack works ok? Or would it still need seating? I've been using that aswell as its in-built amp for the time being until I get the M-Stage working. I'll give it a try tomorrow anyway.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





praeceps said:


> Thanks for the reply, does it make any difference that the headphone jack works ok? Or would it still need seating? I've been using that as well as its in-built amp for the time being until I get the M-Stage working. I'll give it a try tomorrow anyway.


 
  The Essence ST (& STX) comes with three op-amps, two are called "I/V" which are used for the headphones, the third one is called "buffer" is used for the RCA outputs.


----------



## Praeceps

Hey I opened it up and it looked like nothing needed seating, I installed it back in and it suddenly worked? Not sure what happened, thanks for the help anyways.
  Wow big difference in amps, sounds great.
  Question would it be worth it getting a better 0.5m RCA-to-RCA cable working between my m-stage and essence st? Would I notice a difference?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





praeceps said:


> Hey I opened it up and it looked like nothing needed seating, I installed it back in and it suddenly worked? Not sure what happened, thanks for the help anyways.
> Wow big difference in amps, sounds great.
> Question would it be worth it getting a better 0.5m RCA-to-RCA cable working between my m-stage and essence st? Would I notice a difference?


 


 I would say no, if its a decent cable (I am talking $20-$30, like QED performance audio) then i dont see a need to go more then that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





praeceps said:


> Hey I opened it up and it looked like nothing needed seating, I installed it back in and it suddenly worked? Not sure what happened, thanks for the help anyways.
> Wow big difference in amps, sounds great.
> Question would it be worth it getting a better 0.5m RCA-to-RCA cable working between my m-stage and essence st? Would I notice a difference?


 
  Monoprice sells thicker (better shielded) RCA cables for a low price.
  Would it make the sound better????
  At least it would give you piece of mind.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey guys,
   
  is the headphone output of the STX valid or ok to connect to an amp? I only ask because I would like to keep Dolby Headphone if I game. I would leave the output ungained at 100 instead of switching over to the cinch output.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Is the headphone output of the STX valid or ok to connect to an amp? I only ask because I would like to keep Dolby Headphone if I game. I would leave the output ungained at 100 instead of switching over to the cinch output.


 
  Why do you even need to hook up an external headphone amplifier to the headphone output of the STX?
  STX should be able to drive any mainstream headphone on the market.


----------



## Praeceps

Might there be a UK equivelent of monoprice? I tried seeing if I can have it shippped but changed my mind as it costs $30 to be sent...
  In the end I tried amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/0-5m-TWIN-PHONO-RCA-Cable/dp/B002RRVQEI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Why do you even need to hook up an external headphone amplifier to the headphone output of the STX?
> STX should be able to drive any mainstream headphone on the market.


 


  I will add the HE-500 to my small collection.


----------



## WiR3D

QED
  
  Quote: 





praeceps said:


> Might there be a UK equivelent of monoprice? I tried seeing if I can have it shippped but changed my mind as it costs $30 to be sent...
> In the end I tried amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/0-5m-TWIN-PHONO-RCA-Cable/dp/B002RRVQEI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I will add the HE-500 to my small collection.


 


 Then you would need an external amp.
  If you are going to use the headphone jack, then set the volume to 76%, not 50.
   
  I am not sure on the gain, it may need to be put on the high gain.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I will add the HE-500 to my small collection.


 

 The HE-500 is not quite as hard to drive as the HE-6, it needs only about a tenth as much power, and slightly more than the AKG K70x.


----------



## bcschmerker4

I am attempting to diagnose an intermittent issue with the Essence STX PCIe x1 audio card in my Asus CM1630-06.  Every now and then, the card will present massively excessive gain and a 3 kHz "howl" symptomatic of loss of negative feedback in the I-V; I have isolated the problem to the analog section of the STX.  (The problem presents itself, when it occurs, at whatever analog output is active: Headphone, 2 Speakers, or Front Panel.  However, it is undetectable at a second computer equipped with a Creative Laboratories SB0350 PCI audio card, which takes the STX' digital output through a front-mounted I/O Drive).
   
  Is there any consistent issue with the stock JRC2114D operational amplifiers, in terms of internal hardware failure that would result in intermittent loss of negative feedback; or is the current-output section of the Asus AV-100 audio chip itself a suspect in this problem?  And need I look into the JEDEC 8-pin DIP sockets for the I-V?  I would appreciate some info about a most probable diagnosis prior to upgrading the analog section with new National Semiconductor op amp chips (probably a pair of LM6172IN's for the I-V and one LME49860NA for the buffer).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> I am attempting to diagnose an intermittent issue with the Essence STX PCIe x1 audio card in my Asus CM1630-06.  Every now and then, the card will present massively excessive gain and a 3 kHz "howl" symptomatic of loss of negative feedback in the I-V; I have isolated the problem to the analog section of the STX.  (The problem presents itself, when it occurs, at whatever analog output is active: Headphone, 2 Speakers, or Front Panel.  However, it is undetectable at a second computer equipped with a Creative Laboratories SB0350 PCI audio card, which takes the STX' digital output through a front-mounted I/O Drive).
> Is there any consistent issue with the stock JRC2114D operational amplifiers, in terms of internal hardware failure that would result in intermittent loss of negative feedback; or is the current-output section of the Asus AV-100 audio chip itself a suspect in this problem?  And need I look into the JEDEC 8-pin DIP sockets for the I-V?  I would appreciate some info about a most probable diagnosis prior to upgrading the analog section with new National Semiconductor op amp chips (probably a pair of LM6172IN's for the I-V and one LME49860NA for the buffer).


 
  You could try making sure the current op-amps are well seated, my STX arrived with a lose buffer chip.
  The LME49860NA is the same chip at the LM4652 & LME49720NA, the LME49860NA is the cherry pick because it has a better voltage range.


----------



## evgenetic

HI, I've got a strange problem with ASIO output, although perhaps it's not a problem but an Asus ASIO driver specificity.
   
  I have two devices connected to the STX, headphones through hp-out and a Marantz receiver with speakers thru SPDIF. The thing is is when i play audio thru foobar using the ASIO drivers that come with the soundcard driver, i get sound from both of the devices, speakers and headphones..even when the default playback device in windows is set to SPDIF i get sound out of headphones too. I understand that ASIO is supposed to circumvent all the windows settings but this is quite uncomfortable and i'd like to know if there's away to deal with it, namely make only one device active at all times when using ASIO. Non-ASIO output is ok, for example when i play a youtube video the sound only comes through the windows default device.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





evgenetic said:


> HI, I've got a strange problem with ASIO output, although perhaps it's not a problem but an Asus ASIO driver specificity.
> 
> I have two devices connected to the STX, headphones through hp-out and a Marantz receiver with speakers thru SPDIF. The thing is is when i play audio thru foobar using the ASIO drivers that come with the soundcard driver, i get sound from both of the devices, speakers and headphones..even when the default playback device in windows is set to SPDIF i get sound out of headphones too. I understand that ASIO is supposed to circumvent all the windows settings but this is quite uncomfortable and i'd like to know if there's away to deal with it, namely make only one device active at all times when using ASIO. Non-ASIO output is ok, for example when i play a youtube video the sound only comes through the windows default device.
> 
> Thanks.


 

 With wasapi you should be bale to specify a device, also you can specify an output device in foobar as far as i know, so just select "speakers" for hp, and "digital" when you switch to the receiver.


----------



## evgenetic

yep, you're right about wasapi, it does solve the issue in foobar cause i can select the output device. the thing is is that i also use flstudio (amateur music production program), which as far as i know doesn't support wasapi and the same problem persists there, so it's probably an asus driver issue.
  anyway where do you select the device in foobar ? from what i see this is only available to direct sound and wasapi.


----------



## Audioexcels

I may well post this elsewhere, but thought I'd post it in here.  People always complain about sound cards having an issue with the "noisy" computer environment.  What about using a riser extension ribbon, either PCI-E to PCI-E or PCI-E to PCI, etc. (depending on whether you have the ST or STX), and placing the card outside of the computer?
   
  Something like this for those like me that have the ST (though not in use yet), but only have PCI-E slots on my Mobo:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-E-1X-to-16X-Riser-Card-Extension-Cable-15-5cm-Length-/120832498591?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c222d9b9f#ht_3826wt_1132
   
  Just had me thinking a few things:
   
  1) Maybe this helps reduce noise.
   
  2) A diyer can essentially tape the RCA's/analog direct to the analog of their preamp or receiver OR tap the digital directly to the SPDIF of their external dac.
   
  3) Only questionable thing is when you have a ribbon like that in the equation, is that doing more harm.  It's just wires, but it's still wires that could be causing some "audiophile" issue.  In other words, a person with high end interconnects might want the card inside the computer because their audiophile ic's will be better than having that additional inferior ribbon cable wiring.
   
  Maybe silly thoughts in the wee morning hours...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> I may well post this elsewhere, but thought I'd post it in here.  People always complain about sound cards having an issue with the "noisy" computer environment.  What about using a riser extension ribbon, either PCI-E to PCI-E or PCI-E to PCI, etc. (depending on whether you have the ST or STX), and placing the card outside of the computer?
> 
> *Maybe silly thoughts in the wee morning hours...*


 

 Put the card in, if you hear any noise then congrats, because i have it less then an inch from an overclocked HD4890, and an inch from a 750watt PSU running at about 500watt constantly, and 8~10 120mm 2000rpm fans, and on max max max, 0 noise, with denon d2000


----------



## ProjectDenz

Anybody think the OPA2227 is a good opamp to roll on these? I'm looking for a neutral sound with good extension on both sides of the spectrum.


----------



## choC.

I'm considering getting a HiFiMan HE-500 and was wondering if the amp in the STX is enough to source it. Has anybody tried to pair the two?


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> Anybody think the OPA2227 is a good opamp to roll on these? I'm looking for a neutral sound with good extension on both sides of the spectrum.


 


  After viewing the online spec sheet from Texas Instruments for the OPA_n_227/OPA_n_228 family, I'd favor the OPA2228 over the OPA2227.  The OPA2227 is short on high-frequency performance, with a gain bandwidth product of only 8 MHz (versus the 33 MHz of the OPA2228) and a maximum slew of 2.3 V/μs (versus the 11 V/μs of the OPA2228).


----------



## Sxcerino

Just to confirm, I would need something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190662919693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6465460d#ht_1039wt_1396
   
  and NOT like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTERS-/190640593494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c63109a56#ht_938wt_1396
   
  for my STX.
   
  And I would need 3 complete modules for all 3 opamp replacements on the STX.
   
  Correct?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sxcerino said:


> Just to confirm, I would need something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190662919693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6465460d#ht_1039wt_1396
> and NOT like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTERS-/190640593494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c63109a56#ht_938wt_1396
> for my STX.
> And I would need 3 complete modules for all 3 op-amp replacements on the STX.
> Correct?


 

 You got it.
  I've heard good feedback on Frugalphile,


----------



## Sxcerino

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> You got it.
> I've heard good feedback on Frugalphile,


 


  Awesome, thank you


----------



## ProjectDenz

I'm currently using 2x LM6172.
   
  I feel that they synergize very well with my JH13 and sound better than the stock opamps. There's also considerably less hiss with this opamp than the stocks.
   
  Overall, I would say that the LM6172 are neutral sounding overall bit are a little bit bright. Bass extension is excellent.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





projectdenz said:


> I'm currently using 2x LM6172.
> 
> I feel that they synergize very well with my JH13 and sound better than the stock opamps. There's also considerably less hiss with this opamp than the stocks.
> 
> Overall, I would say that the LM6172 are neutral sounding overall bit are a little bit bright. Bass extension is excellent.


 

  
  The National Semiconductor LN6172IN is the very type I'm considering sending in for the JRC2114D's on _my_ STX's I-V section, based on an experiment with a Marantz CD57 documented at TNT Audio prior to encountering the post quoted.  Thanks for confirming one of my component selections.


----------



## Divvy

Can the ST/STX send over Dolby Headphone through spdif and will it play properly through any ol' DAC?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





divvy said:


> Can the ST/STX send over Dolby Headphone through spdif and will it play properly through any ol' DAC?


 
  Nope, the ST/STX can only send Dolby Headphone thru the headphone jack.
  The Titanium HD is more what your looking for.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





divvy said:


> Can the ST/STX send over Dolby Headphone through spdif and will it play properly through any ol' DAC?


 


  The Asus® XONAR® is equipped to send either straight stereo PCM (which I use for transmission monitoring for my online activities) or Dolby® Digital Live through the rear digital-out connector, coaxial (RCA) or TOSLink optical (3.5mm).  Creative Laboratories® may have an edge on what the SB0860 X-Fi Titanium, SB1270 Titanium HD, and SB1354/SB1356 Recon3D Fatal1ty can run through the rear TOSlink optical out, which I cannot confirm at this time for lack of product.  Any DAC should be able to run a PCM input.


----------



## OneSec

I'm currently ordering another LME49860 to go for 3XLME49860 configuration, wondering if anyone has a quick recommendation of these 3 chips, for HD800 on classical.
   
  Thanks!
   
  P.S: I'm be buying the chip today so if there are other recommendations I can get them along this purchase.  Cheers.
  P.S.S: Not into discrete op-amps yet


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





onesec said:


> I'm currently ordering another LME49860 to go for 3XLME49860 configuration, wondering if anyone has a quick recommendation of these 3 chips, for HD800 on classical.
> Thanks!
> P.S: I'm be buying the chip today so if there are other recommendations I can get them along this purchase.  Cheers.
> P.S.S: Not into discrete op-amps yet


 
  I use to use three LME49860NA, great price, no complaints.
  It's the exact same as the LME49720NA, but with a better voltage range.


----------



## kevral

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Nope, the ST/STX can only send Dolby Headphone thru the headphone jack.
> The Titanium HD is more what your looking for.


 

 What?
   
  My ST definitely sends a Dolby Headphone signal over coax PCM when I toggle it on. The SPDIF dropdown menu only has the PCM and Dolby Digital Live options, but the Dolby Headphone checkbox still works on PCM - and definitely affects the PCM signal on my card.
   
  I am running PC 360s off the ST's headphone jack, and have the coax output connected to a Audio-GD Sparrow stereo dac/amp that I use to plug in HD650s and Grados. The Dolby Headphone checkbox affects both the PC 360s (off the jack) and the HD 650s (off coax/ Sparrow) the same, from what I can tell.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





kevral said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Something I have to look in.
  Guess I'll need a external S/PDIF DAC.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Something I have to look in.
> Guess I'll need a external S/PDIF DAC.


 


 I never tested but I think with the current driver version - in comparison to some of the older ones, it is possible yes, because I managed to switch to spdif and turn on Dolby Headphone without a problem, but I havent tested the results.
   
  I have the uni drivers, but this was in the Asus software not the cmedia.


----------



## Audioexcels

Have finally tried the ST as a digital only source and it's very good.  I have an STX just in and will try it next to see what it sounds like.  Of all usb, sound cards, standalone cdps, etc. I honestly have a difficult time hearing the differences.  They are there, but it's more or less like op amp rolling between two op amps from the same family where one may sound a pinch more like this or that, but it's only a "house" type of thing rather than a, "wow this has really changed my system transparency" type of a deal.
   
  I'm curious what power supplies people are using and if you can hear audible differences between them that are enough to warrant the purchase of any specific one in particular?  I know a while back in a Xonar ST/STX thread, there was a person that tested 20 different supplies and the Corsair 400 was clearly the best.
   
  Other question I have is how much power do I need in a power supply that has an ATI 3850 graphics card, ssd, plenty of ram, and not much all programs wise=zero games, pretty much zero anything as I always store anything off my main SSD drive and onto an external.  I have two systems, one with an I5-2400 cpu, one with an AMD X3 Rana cpu.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Have finally tried the ST as a digital only source and it's very good.  I have an STX just in and will try it next to see what it sounds like.  Of all usb, sound cards, standalone cdps, etc. I honestly have a difficult time hearing the differences.  They are there, but it's more or less like op amp rolling between two op amps from the same family where one may sound a pinch more like this or that, but it's only a "house" type of thing rather than a, "wow this has really changed my system transparency" type of a deal.
> 
> I'm curious what power supplies people are using and if you can hear audible differences between them that are enough to warrant the purchase of any specific one in particular?  I know a while back in a Xonar ST/STX thread, there was a person that tested 20 different supplies and the Corsair 400 was clearly the best.
> 
> Other question I have is how much power do I need in a power supply that has an ATI 3850 graphics card, ssd, plenty of ram, and not much all programs wise=zero games, pretty much zero anything as I always store anything off my main SSD drive and onto an external.  I have two systems, one with an I5-2400 cpu, one with an AMD X3 Rana cpu.


 
  I would assume a quality 600 watt would do the job, maybe even a 500 watt, but just safer to get the 600 watt.
  Sometimes a good 750 watt will go on sale somewhere.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Have finally tried the ST as a digital only source and it's very good.  I have an STX just in and will try it next to see what it sounds like.  Of all usb, sound cards, standalone cdps, etc. I honestly have a difficult time hearing the differences.  They are there, but it's more or less like op amp rolling between two op amps from the same family where one may sound a pinch more like this or that, but it's only a "house" type of thing rather than a, "wow this has really changed my system transparency" type of a deal.
> 
> I'm curious what power supplies people are using and if you can hear audible differences between them that are enough to warrant the purchase of any specific one in particular?  I know a while back in a Xonar ST/STX thread, there was a person that tested 20 different supplies and the Corsair 400 was clearly the best.
> 
> Other question I have is how much power do I need in a power supply that has an ATI 3850 graphics card, ssd, plenty of ram, and not much all programs wise=zero games, pretty much zero anything as I always store anything off my main SSD drive and onto an external.  I have two systems, one with an I5-2400 cpu, one with an AMD X3 Rana cpu.


 
   

 In my Asus® CM1630-06 with EAH6850 DirectCU® video and XONAR® Essence STX audio, I use an Antec® TruePower 750 Blue PSU to keep everything running stable; it packs four +12VDC rails each rated for 20_max_A, one general-purpose, one for the CPU supply (ATX12V/EPS12V), and two for PCI-Express video (in my case, both hooked up to the EAH6850DC).  The STX requires one four-pin Molex for its on-board balanced power supply for the headphone and operational amplifiers; that runs off the general-purpose +12VDC rail.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> In my Asus® CM1630-06 with EAH6850 DirectCU® video and XONAR® Essence STX audio, I use an Antec® TruePower 750 Blue PSU to keep everything running stable; it packs four +12VDC rails each rated for 20_max_A, one general-purpose, one for the CPU supply (ATX12V/EPS12V), and two for PCI-Express video (in my case, both hooked up to the EAH6850DC).  The STX requires one four-pin Molex for its on-board balanced power supply for the headphone and operational amplifiers; that runs off the general-purpose +12VDC rail.


 
   
  This is interesting.  So if I am only using the digital out on the card, do I still need to hook up the 4 plug molex?  I would guess yes, but would be a nice bonus if no.  Curious, couldn't I just use a PCI-E to 4 pin Molex adapter and use that for the 12V on the soundcard?

 Thanks for the PS recommendations everyone!


----------



## WiR3D

I honestly dont think it will matter, its just a digital signal?
  But enermax power supplys are well regarded for low noise in their power.


----------



## verde57

Is there any scientific reason for matching the op-amps in I/V with the buffer one?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> Is there any scientific reason for matching the op-amps in I/V with the buffer one?


 
   
  Well, usually there is not much scientific reason to replace the op-amps at all.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> Is there any scientific reason for matching the op-amps in I/V with the buffer one?


 
   
  Yes and no, there are some op-amps that will not work with other op-amps. I'm not sure how common that is, I'm assuming it's rare.
  But I personally do not see a lot (if any) posts, on Head-Fi, about op-amps that do not work with one another.
  If you want to try Rolling (op-amp swapping), try three LME49860NAs, they usually sell for $5 each. cheap way to experiment.
  The LM4652, LME49720NA & LME49860NA are the same op-amp, the LME49860NA just has a better voltage range.
  TO-99 op-amps come in a metal shell and are better shielded against noise, but need to be soldered to an adapter to work in the STX op-amp (DIP-8) slots.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> This is interesting.  So if I am only using the digital out on the card, do I still need to hook up the 4 plug molex?  I would guess yes, but would be a nice bonus if no.  Curious, couldn't I just use a PCI-E to 4 pin Molex adapter and use that for the 12V on the soundcard?
> 
> Thanks for the PS recommendations everyone!


 
   

 In fact ye would have to, as the +5VDC pin on the Molex powers part of the digital side; no power here will result in a failure to install drivers, both with the Asus® official drivers for your OS (ASUSTeK Computer supports Microsoft® Windows XP, 6.0 and 6.1/7.0 separately, as the Vista driver will bork Win 7 and vice versa), and with the third-party Unified XONAR® Driver.  Antec®, furthermore, has no adapter for powering disc drives from one of the PCI-Express supply rails.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> In fact ye would have to, as the +5VDC pin on the Molex powers part of the digital side; no power here will result in a failure to install drivers, both with the Asus® official drivers for your OS (ASUSTeK Computer supports Microsoft® Windows XP, 6.0 and 6.1/7.0 separately, as the Vista driver will bork Win 7 and vice versa), and with the third-party Unified XONAR® Driver.  Antec®, furthermore, has no adapter for powering disc drives from one of the PCI-Express supply rails.


 
   
  Thanks for the info.  Sounds like the 5V's has to be an external mounted linear PS or a battery, or just stick with the main PS.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> bcschmerker4 said:
> ...


 
   
  The audio processor used in the Xonar cards (C-Media CMI87XX) were designed for the PCI bus, not the PCI-Express.
  So Xonar cards for the PCI-Express slot use a bridge chip for the C-Media audio chip to communicate with the PCI-Express bus.
  I believe the bridge chip does not pass (or limits?) power from the PCI-Express bus to the Xonar card, so the Xonar need to be hooked up directly with the PCs powersupply.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  stv014, don't spoil then fun, next you will be telling everyone there is no Santa Clause.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The audio processor used in the Xonar cards (C-Media CMI87XX) were designed for the PCI bus, not the PCI-Express.
> So Xonar cards for the PCI-Express slot use a bridge chip for the C-Media audio chip to communicate with the PCI-Express bus.
> I believe the bridge chip does not pass (or limits?) power from the PCI-Express bus to the Xonar card, so the Xonar need to be hooked up directly with the PCs powersupply.


 
   
  If that's the case, why would there be the 4 pin Molex for the ST when it's the native PCI interface?

 Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> purpleangel said:
> ...


 
   
  The Essence ST is a very loaded sound card, so the PCI bus just may not be able to supply enough power.
  I believe some video cards plugged into the PCI bus also need extra power from the PCs power supply
  I believe the PCI-Express bus provides more power then the PCI, but the Xonar card audio processor just can't work directly with PCI-Express.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Essence ST is a very loaded sound card, so the PCI bus just may not be able to supply enough power.
> I believe some video cards plugged into the PCI bus also need extra power from the PCs power supply
> I believe the PCI-Express bus provides more power then the PCI, but the Xonar card audio processor just can't work directly with PCI-Express.


 
   
  Maybe its just cleaner power directly from the PSU then through the onboard circuitry?
  Because i cant fathom that it would use up all the power a PCI bridge can give.


----------



## WiR3D

I swear I am hearing differences having set windows to 24bit output? (still fixed at 44.1khz)
   
  Can it be digital volume control? I know with 16bits data is lost when you lower the volume. Because I kid you not I am hearing details I didnt hear earlier, and hearing more at lower listening levels then I did previously.
   
  Its not major, but its there. Especially at lower levels


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> purpleangel said:
> ...


 
   
  Cleaner power makes sence.


----------



## mowglycdb

I tested 3 LME49720NA  
   
    highs were pretty good,  but lower medium and bass fell short.
   
  moved to LME49720NA + 2 OPA2137
   
   mid range got quite better, though the signature is way too dark on this one.
   
  then to lme49710HA + 2 OPA2137
   
     the lme49710 fixed the sound a lot, it balanced highs medium and low end got powerfull. though it falls short on detail. on headphones (2x OPA2137) there was too much noise though it had plenty more amp than th lme49720na
   
   
  I read that OPA2137 is not suited for high quality audio   so I purchased  2 OPA2107  a while ago , wish me luck!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> I tested 3 LME49720NA
> 
> highs were pretty good,  but lower medium and bass fell short.
> 
> ...


 
   

 Nice results
  I have almost all my parts for testing (just need resistors first to complete a faux impedance decreasing adapter.)
  This is all to test with the headphone out only, let me know on the OPA2107.
   
   
  In front of me right now I have:

 2x: 2xLME49710HA on DIP8 by Scorch (excellent craftmanship)
 2x: 2xOPA827AID on DIP8 by Scorch (excellent craftmanship)
 2x: 2xAD797BR on DIP8
 2x: LT1057ANC8
 4x (by accident): THS4032 on DIP8
 waiting for OPA2137
   
  All this to try tame the harshness and fix the overbright highs and bloated muddy bass caused by the JRC opamps and impedance mismatches of my D2k and STX


----------



## mowglycdb

I wouldn't recommened the OPA2137   if you're fond of detail and crisp sound, it has way too much distortion
   
   
  OPA2137
  Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise THD+N      0.05
  Gain-Bandwidth Product                                1 Mhz
   
  OPA2107
  Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise THD+N      0.001
  Gain-Bandwidth Product                               4.5 Mhz
   
   
  I'll tell you how it goes with the OPA2107.
   
  EDIT: Lol I got my lme49710ha from Scorch too.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> I wouldn't recommened the OPA2137   if you're fond of detail and crisp sound, it has way too much distortion
> 
> 
> OPA2137
> ...


 
   
  too late... ordered it long ago, somewhere in this thread it was recommended. rawr.
  Its well made hey?
   
  btw what are you pairing the STX with


----------



## mowglycdb

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> too late... ordered it long ago, somewhere in this thread it was recommended. rawr.
> Its well made hey?


 
   
  Well hearing is subjective, you may like the sound you get out of those opamps,  though I've heared OPA2137 has good medium/lower bass, I think you'll like that part atleast.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> Well hearing is subjective, you may like the sound you get out of those opamps,  though I've heared OPA2137 has good medium/lower bass, I think you'll like that part atleast.


 
   
  At the moment I have too much, due to impedance mismatches, and the natural sound of the JRCs


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> I wouldn't recommened the OPA2137   if you're fond of detail and crisp sound, it has way too much distortion


 
   
  The OPA2137 is not optimized for audio applications, for which the datasheet does not specifically recommend it either.


----------



## GodOfDeath

Does this card have enough juice itself to use with the DT-880 250ohms?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





godofdeath said:


> Does this card have enough juice itself to use with the DT-880 250ohms?


 
   
  Yep, powers 250-Ohm headphones just fine, even 600-Ohm headphones.


----------



## goldband

I am using an external DAC and headphone amp-- currently I take the SPDIF digital coax signal from my (desktop) motherboard. Is there any advantage for me
  in using the coax output from the STX? I am not especially interested in the various DSP features-- just 2-channel sound quality.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





goldband said:


> I am using an external DAC and headphone amp-- currently I take the SPDIF digital coax signal from my (desktop) motherboard. Is there any advantage for me
> in using the coax output from the STX? I am not especially interested in the various DSP features-- just 2-channel sound quality.


 
   
  There is not much point buying the card then.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





goldband said:


> I am using an external DAC and headphone amp-- currently I take the SPDIF digital coax signal from my (desktop) motherboard. Is there any advantage for me
> in using the coax output from the STX? I am not especially interested in the various DSP features-- just 2-channel sound quality.


 
  No need for the STX if all your doing is two channel.


----------



## Zulkr9

Can anyone tell me which op-amp should I use to get more smoother yet detailed representation and a larger soundstage, perhaps warmer mids.

 I just got my xonar yesterday and have to say I love it !


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zulkr9 said:


> Can anyone tell me which op-amp should I use to get more smoother yet detailed representation and a larger soundstage, perhaps warmer mids.
> I just got my Xonar yesterday and have to say I love it !


 
   
  The LME49990 and AD797BR might be close to what your looking for.
  Both need to be pre-soldered in pairs on adapters to work on the STX's DIP-8 sockets
  So around $45-$55 total per set of three adapters.


----------



## Audioexcels

Motherboard (digital out) sounds absolutely horrid in my experience.  The ST or STX are vastly superior.  Whether or not they are superior to a cheap Xonar or whatever 24/192 card, I'm not sure, but onboard even for a digital source is atrocious...ymmv I guess)


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Motherboard (digital out) sounds absolutely horrid in my experience.  The ST or STX are vastly superior.  Whether or not they are superior to a cheap Xonar or whatever 24/192 card, I'm not sure, but onboard even for a digital source is atrocious...ymmv I guess)


 
   
  In the sound science forum, there is a thread where only about half the attempts to tell apart the recorded _analog_ sound of an onboard DAC from the original were successful, and so far no one has been able to hear the quality degradation caused by a D/A-A/D loop of a cheap Xonar D1. With a digital output, assuming that it is bit perfect and there is no data corruption or other problem, there is not likely to be a real audible difference with a good external DAC. But for a simple stereo sound with no DSP, you can also use USB instead of S/PDIF, making any sound card (onboard or not) unnecessary.


----------



## Zulkr9

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The LME49990 and AD797BR might be close to what your looking for.
> Both need to be pre-soldered in pairs on adapters to work on the STX's DIP-8 sockets
> So around $45-$55 total per set of three adapters.


 
   
  lol english please I have no idea what what you are talking about .

 P.s I think it was your posts about the xonar in head-fi that helped me confirm my purchase, I wasnt sure they would have enough power, do they gain more power after swapping op-amps or sth ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zulkr9 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> purpleangel said:
> ...


 
  Changing op-amps (operational amplifiers) more like "changes" the sound, if you want more bass or more treble or better vocals & sound stage.
  The stock op-amps in the Essence STX are considered neutral.
  Read the beginning of this thread, lots of into there on the STX and op-amps.


----------



## Bam Bam Mickey

Essence ST with 2xLME49720NA and the jrc in the other opamp slot, coupled with the HD 650's.
  I love the sound they produce in this combo, and certainly punchier over standard opamps, with no loss of sharpness or detail.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> In the sound science forum, there is a thread where only about half the attempts to tell apart the recorded _analog_ sound of an onboard DAC from the original were successful, and so far no one has been able to hear the quality degradation caused by a D/A-A/D loop of a cheap Xonar D1. With a digital output, assuming that it is bit perfect and there is no data corruption or other problem, there is not likely to be a real audible difference with a good external DAC. But for a simple stereo sound with no DSP, you can also use USB instead of S/PDIF, making any sound card (onboard or not) unnecessary.


 
  I only listen to two channel, but I do like to use some eq.  Do you have a link to the sound science forum thread.  I'd like to see how the testing was conducted.  In true abx tests, one can easily have a listener go on for hours and hours where unless the listener is on energy drinks, they'll fail the test.  But my idea of a true a/b is a simple switch box/system where we can hear one, then flip over to the other, etc.  Heck, when I've listened to 4 total transports recently, including two USB types, I honestly heard "very subtle" differences.  My pick/choice would come down to application and not due to one being more "synergetic" or whatever with my system.  For example, one had a sound that was so similar to another, it would be too difficult to choose which one.  These same compared to the Xonar ST were very close, but the ST had some kind of "extra" midbass-midrange, though it was still so close, I doubt or would even care less if I correctly picked out the ST or the others in the test.  Even my wife who wasn't listening as carefully as she usually does (too bad because she's got a great ear) still could hear the sound enough to say if she heard any differences and she said no.
   
  Link me to the science forum test as I'm always interested in this kinda stuff.
   
  Thanks a lot!


----------



## audionewbieyao

Man, finally, after using the stock OPAMP on my STX for almost 2 years, I've decided to give MUSE a try.
  My MUSE will be coming tomorrow, can't wait to put it on and see what's the difference.
   
  Fingers crossed for DHL, don't you delay my MUSE dude...


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Audioexcels* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Link me to the science forum test as I'm always interested in this kinda stuff.


 
   
  It is here.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It is here.


 
  On my system, it is "heavily" clipping the signal regardless of the track.  There's a load of compression.  The two versions (Xonar or Motherboard are close enough it doesn't matter IMHO), but they are both "very" different than the original.  The original sounds more like an authentic version where the Xonar/Motherboard are trying to push more information through...I suppose a matter of taste, but I prefer the recording the most out of any of these.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> On my system, it is "heavily" clipping the signal regardless of the track.  There's a load of compression.  The two versions (Xonar or Motherboard are close enough it doesn't matter IMHO), but they are both "very" different than the original.  The original sounds more like an authentic version where the Xonar/Motherboard are trying to push more information through...I suppose a matter of taste, but I prefer the recording the most out of any of these.


 
   
  Did you actually use the foobar ABX comparator, or just listened to the files sighted ?


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Did you actually use the foobar ABX comparator, or just listened to the files sighted ?


 
  Only the files from the link.  Is it better to use the ABX comparator?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Only the files from the link.  Is it better to use the ABX comparator?


 
   
  Yes, because when you know what you are listening to, it is easy to imagine slight differences that are actually not there. Using the ABX comparator plugin prevents that effect.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Did you actually use the foobar ABX comparator, or just listened to the files sighted ?


 

 A comparator switch would be an excellent way to test an external S/P-DIF power DAC (running PCM input) against the XONAR's® internal DAC, which can pump out through the headphone amplifier (1/4" (6.3mm) plug) or line-level buffer amplifier (dual RCA jacks); a clean source PCM (Microsoft® WAV or AVI, Apple® AAC, or similar) common to both devices is needed for this test, as heavy compression can thwart judging.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I've been playing around with my STX for a couple of days now and it sounds great but to be honest with my HD598 its a bit too neutral for my tastes. I'm thinking of swapping out the op-amps. Is there anything that I should look into for a little more bass? I'm considering some LME49860s.


----------



## pooley

^^ Also would like to know this as i'm using some dt880's with my STX.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> I've been playing around with my STX for a couple of days now and it sounds great but to be honest with my HD598 its a bit too neutral for my tastes. I'm thinking of swapping out the op-amps. Is there anything that I should look into for a little more bass? I'm considering some LME49860s.


 
   
   
  I don't know about op-amps, but after getting my Musical Fidelity M1DAC I realized how harsh and bright STX sounds. It became clear to me why Q701's suck when plugged into it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> I've been playing around with my STX for a couple of days now and it sounds great but to be honest with my HD598 its a bit too neutral for my tastes. I'm thinking of swapping out the op-amps. Is there anything that I should look into for a little more bass? I'm considering some LME49860s.


 
  It's only $15 for three LME49860NA, off eBay.
  The LM4652, LME49720NA & LME49860NA are the same op-amp, the LME49860NAs just have a better voltage range.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> It's only $15 for three LME49860NA, off eBay.
> The LM4652, LME49720NA & LME49860NA are the same op-amp, the LME49860NAs just have a better voltage range.


 
  Thanks for the info.
   
  I ended up picking up three from digikey. I'll report back with my thoughts.


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I don't know about op-amps, but after getting my Musical Fidelity M1DAC I realized how harsh and bright STX sounds. It became clear to me why Q701's suck when plugged into it.


 
  I just got an STX today and have been listening with my ATH-M50s.  I definitely feel that it is very bright and "harsh" and somewhat lacking on the low end.  But I think it improved when I switched from using the headphone out to the RCA outputs (with the M50s).  Those are my initial impressions.  But I'm hearing more detail as well (compared to my onboard Realtek ALC892 and my iPhone 3GS).


----------



## peck1234

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I just got an STX today and have been listening with my ATH-M50s.  I definitely feel that it is very bright and "harsh" and somewhat lacking on the low end.  But I think it improved when I switched from using the headphone out to the RCA outputs (with the M50s).  Those are my initial impressions.  But I'm hearing more detail as well (compared to my onboard Realtek ALC892 and my iPhone 3GS).


 
  Spot on my impression as well.  Thus is why I returned my card.  Cymbals are to bright, Mid High's are lacking, and overall tonality in my opinion is OFF.  
   
  I actually prefered my ALC888 onboard audio.  The New Realtek Chips in my opinion are fantastic on board sound has come a long way.. The latest ALC898 pushes out 110DB SNR.   
   
  But...
   
  Just purchased a HRT Music Streamer.  Hopfully I like that when it comes in.  
   
  $200 dollars is a lot to spend for a sound you dont like.   So make sure you compare it to your onboard and if you dont find it superior get your MULA back.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I just got an STX today and have been listening with my ATH-M50s.  I definitely feel that it is very bright and "harsh" and somewhat lacking on the low end.  But I think it improved when I switched from using the headphone out to the RCA outputs (with the M50s).  Those are my initial impressions.  But I'm hearing more detail as well (compared to my onboard Realtek ALC892 and my iPhone 3GS).


 
   
   
  Quote: 





peck1234 said:


> _Snip_


 
   
  Yes the stock card is harsh, and the JRC opamps are mainly to blame, swap them out with something else and you will be good, like the THS4032.
   
  Avoid the AD797, its got very very good clarity, but its arguable harsher then the JRC2114D


----------



## Fakeyfakerson

Hey guys, I'm wondering how the STX driver settings interact with windows settings, and what the best settings were overall in terms of audio quality. I listen to mainly v0 mp3's, so I have the driver set to 192 Khz sample rate with 2 channels over the headphone analog out. I haven't touched any windows settings, under the sound control panel. Any recommendations or thoughts/comments?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





fakeyfakerson said:


> Hey guys, I'm wondering how the STX driver settings interact with windows settings, and what the best settings were overall in terms of audio quality. I listen to mainly v0 mp3's, so I have the driver set to 192 Khz sample rate with 2 channels over the headphone analog out. I haven't touched any windows settings, under the sound control panel. Any recommendations or thoughts/comments?


 
  Definately make sure that you are at least operating in 24 bit mode in the advanced souncard properties for your speaker output. This will guarentee you get the best results if you plan to use windows mixer. Not much else really seems to matter that much is seems with the STX card I have.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





fakeyfakerson said:


> Hey guys, I'm wondering how the STX driver settings interact with windows settings, and what the best settings were overall in terms of audio quality. I listen to mainly v0 mp3's, so I have the driver set to 192 Khz sample rate with 2 channels over the headphone analog out. I haven't touched any windows settings, under the sound control panel. Any recommendations or thoughts/comments?


 
   
  Just put all settings to the highest sample rate possible.


----------



## SimmoW

Hi everyone, I just joined and wanted to say thankyou to all those who've posted all the useful info on this amazing thread! Thanks to you, I bought a Xonar STX and stuck it in my Core i7 920 pc and am gobsmacked how good it sounds!
   
  I bought a new pair of Grado SR325is last yr. They sounded excellent on my Rotel CD and RSX-965 amp setup, but once I hooked em up to the Xonar, my GOD. I spent 2hrs straight going through my whole ripped CD and itunes collection, jaw dropping at the ridiculous amt of air pushing into my ears, the 'real' sound of simple instruments like banjo, piano, sheesh anything! Modern tracks that I formerly thought were real pianos were revealed obviously as very good synths. Stunning, quite amazing for the price. One quiet piano track floored me, you could hear and almost feel the hammers hit the strings. Guitars have 10 times the resonance/after effects that I've heard before. Switching from the Xonar to my Sony Xperia S phone is very telling, hilarious. It sounds like a transistor radio or like someone's put jello in my 'phones.
   
  Connecting direct to the pc has an added bonus - by being able to flick between tracks almost instantly, you can sample a huge range of music quickly. I could even flick between high res downloads and lower res versions instantly, helping to convince myself that it IS worth getting the higher res versions, if only to a minor extent. It Makes my old Rotel CD player pretty well redundant. Sad, as it cost me a heap a few yrs ago. The Xonar setup is far superior to the CD, other than the annoying fan noise close to me.
   
  So I'll continue reading this great forum for more tweaking tips (I only have the default opa's for now. I'm pretty stoked with the headphones though, they'll do me for a very long time. Yes they start to hurt my lobes after an hr, but that's the price you pay.
   
  Of course I'll always be open to even improving the DAC setup one day. I'd love someone to prove that an external DAC can noticeably improve the sound I'm getting now. And if it does, it must be incredible! 
   
  It's a great time for audiophiles eh...


----------



## bcschmerker4

Congratulations, SimmoW, on landing the Grados®.  The STX can drive an external DAC with either PCM or Dolby® Digital Live multichannel through it S/P-DIF jack, which will handle 75Ω RCA coaxial or 3.5mm optical cable; with the correct switching hardware, one can A-B-C the STX' internal DAC, an S/P-DIF-driven external DAC from the STX' digital output (explained above, in PCM mode), and an external USB 2.0 or 3.0 power DAC (provided that it pack its own power supply unit to feed its electronics properly) to see which of the three sounds best for a given head- or earset.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





simmow said:


> Hi everyone, I just joined and wanted to say thankyou to all those who've posted all the useful info on this amazing thread! Thanks to you, I bought a Xonar STX and stuck it in my Core i7 920 pc and am gobsmacked how good it sounds!
> I bought a new pair of Grado SR325is last yr. They sounded excellent on my Rotel CD and RSX-965 amp setup, but once I hooked em up to the Xonar, my GOD. I spent 2hrs straight going through my whole ripped CD and itunes collection, jaw dropping at the ridiculous amt of air pushing into my ears, the 'real' sound of simple instruments like banjo, piano, sheesh anything! Modern tracks that I formerly thought were real pianos were revealed obviously as very good synths. Stunning, quite amazing for the price. One quiet piano track floored me, you could hear and almost feel the hammers hit the strings. Guitars have 10 times the resonance/after effects that I've heard before. Switching from the Xonar to my Sony Xperia S phone is very telling, hilarious. It sounds like a transistor radio or like someone's put jello in my 'phones.
> Connecting direct to the pc has an added bonus - by being able to flick between tracks almost instantly, you can sample a huge range of music quickly. I could even flick between high res downloads and lower res versions instantly, helping to convince myself that it IS worth getting the higher res versions, if only to a minor extent. It Makes my old Rotel CD player pretty well redundant. Sad, as it cost me a heap a few yrs ago. The Xonar setup is far superior to the CD, other than the annoying fan noise close to me.
> So I'll continue reading this great forum for more tweaking tips (I only have the default opa's for now. I'm pretty stoked with the headphones though, they'll do me for a very long time. Yes they start to hurt my lobes after an hr, but that's the price you pay.
> Of course I'll always be open to even improving the DAC setup one day. I'd love someone to prove that an external DAC can noticeably improve the sound I'm getting now. And if it does, it must be incredible!


 
  Have you tried using Foobar to play audio?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Just put all settings to the highest sample rate possible.


 
  ah no, firstly the STX measures best at the lower sample rates, secondly 96kHz and 192kHz inherently creates issues at certain frequencies. So no don't put the sample rate the highest, put it at whatever your music files are, generally 44.1kHz to prevent upsampling. And use WASAPI or ASIO drivers.
   
  Quote: 





simmow said:


> _snip_


 
  Congrats!
  If you want even more clarity swap out the I/V opamps with AD797, but it can be overpowering for some, but since you are hooking it up to an amp it shouldn't be a problem,
   
  Also use a good music player, either Foobar or my favourite MusicBee, with WASAPI or ASIO drivers, it really does make a difference.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> ah no, firstly the STX measures best at the lower sample rates


 
   
Not at 44.1 kHz, or its multiples (88.2/176.4 kHz). Using any of these, the noise level of the DAC is significantly higher than at 48/96/192 kHz.


----------



## SimmoW

More thanks guys! Oh dear, much to learn still then. I've only downloaded Mediamonkey. I'll definitely check out those players. ASIO? That has another meaning in Australia..

Foobar sounds great just from the name. I don't intend streaming to the receiver just YET, wanna get the headphone setup just right first. Im fascinated with steaming though, I'll research some of your signature specs soon!

Wir3d- what, I can get MORE clarity?!My ears might start bleeding  ok, I'll try it, hell my ears already hurt enough with those cans after an hr.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





simmow said:


> Hi everyone, I just joined and wanted to say thankyou to all those who've posted all the useful info on this amazing thread! Thanks to you, I bought a Xonar STX and stuck it in my Core i7 920 pc and am gobsmacked how good it sounds!
> 
> I bought a new pair of Grado SR325is last yr. They sounded excellent on my Rotel CD and RSX-965 amp setup, but once I hooked em up to the Xonar, my GOD. I spent 2hrs straight going through my whole ripped CD and itunes collection, jaw dropping at the ridiculous amt of air pushing into my ears, the 'real' sound of simple instruments like banjo, piano, sheesh anything! Modern tracks that I formerly thought were real pianos were revealed obviously as very good synths. Stunning, quite amazing for the price. One quiet piano track floored me, you could hear and almost feel the hammers hit the strings. Guitars have 10 times the resonance/after effects that I've heard before. Switching from the Xonar to my Sony Xperia S phone is very telling, hilarious. It sounds like a transistor radio or like someone's put jello in my 'phones.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Just to tell you, even though you might not accept it now (I know I didn't lol), but forget about DAC upgrades.  Trust me, you won't get anything better than STX unless you invest some serious money (a couple of grand), and even then, differences will be much smaller than between your Rotel CD/amp and the STX.
  I recently got a Musical Fidelity M1DAC, which is about 800$ new, and is considered by many who tried it a giant killer, a DAC that performs and measures at the level of much more expensive DAC's.  Even the manufacturer itself challenged other DAC makers, if they can provide a DAC that costs up to 10 times as much, and prove that it measures or sounds better, they will stop producing the M1.  Well, its all nice, but to be honest, I don't hear any major difference in quality between it and STX DAC.  To be honest, the only difference there is in sound signature, not sound quality. STX even sounds clearer, more detailed and crisper sometimes, while M1DAC is I guess a bit more lush and warm. But the difference is REALLY REALLY small, none of them stand out, and none of them offer something that the other one doesn't. Basically, the point is, DAC inside the STX is "as good as it gets". Anyone that claims otherwise is a victim of marketing and placebo.  This might sound harsh, but it's the honest truth.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Just to tell you, even though you might not accept it now (I know I didn't lol), but forget about DAC upgrades.  Trust me, you won't get anything better than STX unless you invest some serious money (a couple of grand), and even then, differences will be much smaller than between your Rotel CD/amp and the STX.
> I recently got a Musical Fidelity M1DAC, which is about 800$ new, and is considered by many who tried it a giant killer, a DAC that performs and measures at the level of much more expensive DAC's.  Even the manufacturer itself challenged other DAC makers, if they can provide a DAC that costs up to 10 times as much, and prove that it measures or sounds better, they will stop producing the M1.  Well, its all nice, but to be honest, I don't hear any major difference in quality between it and STX DAC.  To be honest, the only difference there is in sound signature, not sound quality. STX even sounds clearer, more detailed and crisper sometimes, while M1DAC is I guess a bit more lush and warm. But the difference is REALLY REALLY small, none of them stand out, and none of them offer something that the other one doesn't. Basically, the point is, DAC inside the STX is "as good as it gets". Anyone that claims otherwise is a victim of marketing and placebo.  This might sound harsh, but it's the honest truth.


 
  Or maybe your headphones are not good enough? Upgrading the DAC to a $800 DAC would call for a set of cans thats atleast a $1000 (obviously this is all rough estimates, but the principle is correct.)
   
  Quote: 





simmow said:


> More thanks guys! Oh dear, much to learn still then. I've only downloaded Mediamonkey. I'll definitely check out those players. ASIO? That has another meaning in Australia..
> Foobar sounds great just from the name. I don't intend streaming to the receiver just YET, wanna get the headphone setup just right first. Im fascinated with steaming though, I'll research some of your signature specs soon!
> Wir3d- what, I can get MORE clarity?!My ears might start bleeding  ok, I'll try it, hell my ears already hurt enough with those cans after an hr.


 
  You could try the THS4032, its audibly smoother, I quite like it, the AD797 just has the edge in clarity compared to everything I have put it up against.
   
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Not at 44.1 kHz, or its multiples (88.2/176.4 kHz). Using any of these, the noise level of the DAC is significantly higher than at 48/96/192 kHz.


 
  Wow thanks for that, interesting, if I set the sample rate to 48kHz, then isn't there issues with 44.1kHz upconverting to 48kHz?
  I know about 24bit output beinga must, I never bothered but i heard a clearly audible difference especially with lower volumes when I switched to 24 bit from 16bit.
   
  I don't have the ability to read the graphs, they look greek to me, but the figures I get.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Or maybe your headphones are not good enough? Upgrading the DAC to a $800 DAC would call for a set of cans thats atleast a $1000 (obviously this is all rough estimates, but the principle is correct.)


 
   
  I doubt HD650's and Q701's are not good enough to notice the difference. And difference between these cans and those that cost 1000+$ is not so much in sound quality as in signature. There's nothing you will hear on HD800's that you won't hear on HD650's.


----------



## SimmoW

Thats what I like to hear Derbig! Well the dac coy's won't like it though.

It's great that you are honest enough to say it. Funny, I was just going to post that the xonar sounds significantly better than my Rotel RCD 1072 cd player, that cost me $900 7 or so yrs ago.

Here's a prezzie for you all! A link to my Soundcloud, where I stick some of my Binaural recordings. The last couple have some great airflow (edit, I mean airshow!!) sounds, the speaker buster even has bomb explosions starting at around 6mins. My combo reveals the shock of the explosions very faithfully, you can feel that sound pressure! Recorded at 24/96 on a Sony M10 digital recorder. It's a bit clippy at times, pls forgive my Mikes, they're not pro level but good enuf generally. You get some quite immersive 3d positioning I think.

Enjoy

 http://soundcloud.com/ipoddy/airshow-2-speaker-destroyer


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I doubt HD650's and Q701's are not good enough to notice the difference. And difference between these cans and those that cost 1000+$ is not so much in sound quality as in signature. *There's nothing you will hear on HD800's that you won't hear on HD650's.*


 
   
  I am willing to bet lots of money I do not have that many people here will greatly disagree with that.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I am willing to bet lots of money I do not have that many people here will greatly disagree with that.


 
   
  I am willing to bet even more that those who will *greatly* disagree will do so just to justify paying so much money for an overpriced product, or they have enough money to be able to spent a couple of grand on a headphone setup without noticing any change in their monthly budget .  
  Can you honestly admit that something like HD800 is worth 3-4 times more than the HD650 or HD600? Or is T1 worth 3-4 times more than DT880?  Nah its not. It's only marginally better. Realistic improvement in performance, no matter which setup used, is quite small.  Even on the best of setups HD800 will still sound only marginally better than HD650. Maybe "better" is even the wrong word to use here. Maybe "different" is more suitable. No doubt really high end headphones, and amps, and DAC's...are all technically better, but they're all RIDICULOUSLY overpriced. Nobody can deny that. 
  I once though that after getting the HD650's I'm just scraping the surface of good audio, and that there's a long way to go.  But after hearing various more expensive headphones, I see that my 1000$ setup offers about 90% of what a 5000$ setup would offer. Now, is it worth going for that extra 10%? Depends. I think it's not worth it. I'd rather buy a speaker system for 5 grand and get a far more enjoyable listening experience (in my opinion) than with any headphone system.
   
  Now back to DAC's, I can't justify the price of Musical Fidelity M1DAC when comparing it to STX.  I got mine used for about 300$, and I think that's would be a fair price for a new unit, instead of 800$. I would have definitely returned a new unit. To tell you how similar it sounds to STX,  after I got the DAC and connected it into my STX trough the coax cable, I had a listen and I though the M1DAC is not working. I though its just passing the signal from the input to output and then into my amp.  So I spent 2 hours trying to find how to make it work with a PC, and I turned out I was doing it the way its supposed to be done, I just didn't notice any difference in sound, because it was too small to be noticed. 
  Both sound virtually the same, there might be a slight difference in warmth between the two, but that might be placebo as well. Other than that, both present all details equally, both present same sound stages, they have identical imaging, both have identical separation, equal mids, equal extensions in both directions, etc. In fact, STX might even have higher clarity of the sound.
   
  Those stories of audiophiles being asked to do blind tests and then not being able to tell the difference between a 200$ and 2000$ amp, or something like that, might not be as ridiculous as they seem at first.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Wow thanks for that, interesting, if I set the sample rate to 48kHz, then isn't there issues with 44.1kHz upconverting to 48kHz?


 
   
  There is not much point upsampling unless the noise is actually audible with your headphones, but upsampling fixes it. Software sample rate conversion can be transparent, but maybe the Windows converter was optimized for speed, rather than quality.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *derbigpr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Those stories of audiophiles being asked to do blind tests and then not being able to tell the difference between a 200$ and 2000$ amp, or something like that, might not be as ridiculous as they seem at first.


 
   
  My DAC blind test in the Sound Science forum might not be a fully reliable indicator of DAC performance, but so far no one has voted being able to tell apart a loopback recording of the Xonar D1 from the original audio upsampled with a high quality software converter, and some could not even hear the quality degradation caused by a Realtek ALC887 onboard codec that was even disadvantaged by ground loop noise (due to recording with another sound card in the same PC) and slight bass roll-off (as a result of the too low input impedance of the sound card).


----------



## funkinlesson

I bought one of these cards and installed it in my PC today. The sound quality is amazing, but unfortunately, latency when monitoring/recording is awful.
   
  I'm a DJ so I have an output from my mixer going into the line in input of the sound card. When I enable monitoring so that I can hear what's being played through line in, if I then try and do some scratching on my decks, there is a really noticeable delay in between what I'm doing with the fader/record and what I can hear.
   
  Is there any way to fix this?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





funkinlesson said:


> I bought one of these cards and installed it in my PC today. The sound quality is amazing, but unfortunately, latency when monitoring/recording is awful.
> 
> I'm a DJ so I have an output from my mixer going into the line in input of the sound card. When I enable monitoring so that I can hear what's being played through line in, if I then try and do some scratching on my decks, there is a really noticeable delay in between what I'm doing with the fader/record and what I can hear.
> 
> Is there any way to fix this?


 
  The third party drivers "Unified Xonar Drivers" at Brainbit might help.


----------



## funkinlesson

Thanks. I did try installing those, both with and without the low latency option checked, but it didn't help. There is still noticeable latency when monitoring the line in input.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I doubt HD650's and Q701's are not good enough to notice the difference. And difference between these cans and those that cost 1000+$ is not so much in sound quality as in signature. There's nothing you will hear on HD800's that you won't hear on HD650's.


 

 i will not agree cause right now i have just STX with upgraded OPAMPs only no external DAC or AMP and was using my beloved HD650 for over a year, but in a last moment i decided to pull a trigger and preordered HE-400 and when they finally arrived after two months wait I learned what i was missing in BASS QUALITY all this time. But since i didn't like how HE-400 handle yteble with my setup so i decided to try if D5000 can be a fix and as soon i connected them i found out that they blew HD650 away for me completely but had little problem with distorted treble on some recordings with too high recording level so decided to try D7000 since i was able to get them for just over $50 more and they almost solved the problem but i lost about 10% of bass depth comparing to D5000 but i'm very happy with the end result but i can't go back to HD650


----------



## SimmoW

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You could try the THS4032, its audibly smoother, I quite like it, the AD797 just has the edge in clarity compared to everything I have put it up against.


 
   Nah, I'm a clarity guy too! Apols for asking a really dumb question, but I've tried googling - who's the best supplier for the AD797, and what's the exact model no. to ensure I get the ones compatible with the soundcard? And I assume you just swap them easily with the existing ones? yeah, I'm really new to this.
   
  Tx
   
  Simon


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





simmow said:


> Nah, I'm a clarity guy too! Apols for asking a really dumb question, but I've tried Googling - who's the best supplier for the AD797, and what's the exact model no. to ensure I get the ones compatible with the sound card? And I assume you just swap them easily with the existing ones? yeah, I'm really new to this.


 
  AD797BR (SOIC, single channel, op-amp)
  On eBay the seller is audjade_chn (in China).
  Audjade_chn will mount 2 (used) single channel AD797BR op-amps on to a dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
  So you will need 6 AD797BR op-amps mounted on to three adapters.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





funkinlesson said:


> Thanks. I did try installing those, both with and without the low latency option checked, but it didn't help. There is still noticeable latency when monitoring the line in input.


 

 I checked out the delay on my Asus® CM1630 with EAH6850DC video and XONAR® Essence STX audio under Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001 (MultiProcessor Kernel 6.1.7601) and found that the meter in Windows'® Recording Devices Control Panel responds practically instantly to the audio on the selected input; the audio-foldback delay is much like that encountered on the Tape Monitor function on three-head professional analog tape decks such as the Tascam®/Teac® 122 in record mode.  I investigated the Unified XONAR® Driver and found that, while it will minimize the recording latency of the STX' recordable inputs, it won't help the foldback-delay issue.
   
  Unfortunately, a truly satisfactory audio card for record-monitoring under Windows® 6-up is hard to come by due to the limitations of the new audio stack, which not even Creative Technology could make work with their CA0102 and E-MU® 10K1 audio chips from the Sound Blaster® Live! and Audigy series.  I found the STX to be clean and quiet enough that I could actually run a recording console such as the Mackie® 1642VLZ3 into the Mic In/Line In; the local monitoring can be disabled in the XONAR® Audio Center to break the feedback loop that would otherwise occur.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> AD797BR (SOIC, single channel, op-amp)
> On eBay the seller is audjade_chn (in China).
> Audjade_chn will mount 2 (used) single channel AD797BR op-amps on to a dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
> So you will need 6 AD797BR op-amps mounted on to three adapters.


 
  Yes but I have only placed them in the I/V, I have yet to experiment with the buffer. so only 2 adapters are needed. I think a third may be too much, SimmoW if you want i can feed the line out to my Onkyo and and plug my AKGs in there and give it a bash with my other opamps?
   
  Quote: 





simmow said:


> Nah, I'm a clarity guy too! Apols for asking a really dumb question, but I've tried googling - who's the best supplier for the AD797, and what's the exact model no. to ensure I get the ones compatible with the soundcard? And I assume you just swap them easily with the existing ones? yeah, I'm really new to this.
> 
> Tx
> 
> Simon


 
  as PurpleAngel suggested, or from Hifiic


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> i will not agree cause right now i have just STX with upgraded OPAMPs only no external DAC or AMP and was using my beloved HD650 for over a year, but in a last moment i decided to pull a trigger and preordered HE-400 and when they finally arrived after two months wait I learned what i was missing in BASS QUALITY all this time. But since i didn't like how HE-400 handle yteble with my setup so i decided to try if D5000 can be a fix and as soon i connected them i found out that they blew HD650 away for me completely but had little problem with distorted treble on some recordings with too high recording level so decided to try D7000 since i was able to get them for just over $50 more and they almost solved the problem but i lost about 10% of bass depth comparing to D5000 but i'm very happy with the end result but i can't go back to HD650


 
   
  Whats your point? STX amp is nowhere near good enough for HD650's. It will make them loud, but not sound as good as they can. My point is, HD650's with a proper amp is more than good enough to hear a clear difference in quality between various DAC's, and there is no difference between a DAC in STX and the M1DAC. And I bet its the same story for any other DAC under 1000$.


----------



## WiR3D

derbigpr said:


> Whats your point? STX amp is nowhere near good enough for HD650's. It will make them loud, but not sound as good as they can. My point is, HD650's with a proper amp is more than good enough to hear a clear difference in quality between various DAC's, and there is no difference between a DAC in STX and the M1DAC. And I bet its the same story for any other DAC under 1000$.




I dont quite agree, I think the limit for a dac with the HD650 as for the D2000 is the STX, but with gear more expensive like the D7000 then the dac limit increases to alot more, if I had to guess I would say the yulong D100. for phones such as the hd800, beyer T1, and higher, $1000+ would be the next step


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I dont quite agree, I think the limit for a dac with the HD650 as for the D2000 is the STX, but with gear more expensive like the D7000 then the dac limit increases to alot more, if I had to guess I would say the yulong D100. for phones such as the hd800, beyer T1, and higher, $1000+ would be the next step


 
   
  Everyone can have his opinion, but I'm willing to bet 1000$ that 19 out of 20 people would not be able to tell what is better in a blind test, STX or any 1000$ DAC, or even more expensive.  Regardless of which headphones or speakers would be used. And similar tests have been done already by many people and proven to be true.  Same as people couldnt tell the difference between the O2 amp that costs 100$ and some 1000+$ amps. Or telling the difference between a 20$ and 1000$ cable.   People are just being too stuck up sometimes and think their hearing can detect stuff that even infinitely more precise measuring gear can't. Its placebo in 99% of cases. If you buy the best DAC available on the market, regardless of price, realistic improvement in performance will be less than 10% compared to STX or similarly good DAC's. There's just a point where the word "improvement" becomes a bit questionable.


----------



## WiR3D

derbigpr said:


> Everyone can have his opinion, but I'm willing to bet 1000$ that 19 out of 20 people would not be able to tell what is better in a blind test, STX or any 1000$ DAC, or even more expensive.  Regardless of which headphones or speakers would be used. And similar tests have been done already by many people and proven to be true.  Same as people couldnt tell the difference between the O2 amp that costs 100$ and some 1000+$ amps. Or telling the difference between a 20$ and 1000$ cable.   People are just being too stuck up sometimes and think their hearing can detect stuff that even infinitely more precise measuring gear can't. Its placebo in 99% of cases. If you buy the best DAC available on the market, regardless of price, realistic improvement in performance will be less than 10% compared to STX or similarly good DAC's. There's just a point where the word "improvement" becomes a bit questionable.





Remember with Hi-fi the law of diminishing returns is especially true, but value is not exactly a factor taken into consideration, and i think even 10% is a bit much sometimes when factoring in giant killers like the O2 and even the STX when set up correctly. An improvement is an improvement, no matter how small, and when value is not factored into it you get hi-fi.

But in the same breath, you get snake oil, I wont mention names in terms of amps/dacs but you do get overpriced crap that performs poorly at even a few tiers down. ED9 anyone?

I don't believe in cables, a good copper cable is about it, and a silver plated copper if you want to bring out the highs a bit.

The gear involved in my opinion has to be of the same tier, headphones and amp and dac, otherwise the limiting factor (in your case the HD650) will do exactly that, limit. Heck peoples ears are often the limiting factor.


So you see you are not wrong, but you are placing emphasis on value in a market where it is irrelevant.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Whats your point? STX amp is nowhere near good enough for HD650's.


 
   
  What is wrong with it for the HD650 ? If anything, it is one of the few headphones I would recommend the built-in amplifier for.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> An improvement is an improvement, no matter how small, and when value is not factored into it you get hi-fi.


 
   
  If the improvement is no longer audible (or minimal and not clearly an improvement), it is better to spend the money on things where it is.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> What is wrong with it for the HD650 ? If anything, it is one of the few headphones I would recommend the built-in amplifier for.


 
   
  Thats the point, HD650's really need a good amp to shine.  For example, difference between a built in STX amp and something like Little Dot Mk5 (which is at 300$ a very good value amp) is pretty big.  Powering the HD650's out of STX built in amp makes them sound congested, soundstage is small and they feel underpowered, they lack dynamics and punch. STX has a brilliant DAC section, but amp section is only acceptable for higher end headphones.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Remember with Hi-fi the law of diminishing returns is especially true, but value is not exactly a factor taken into consideration, and i think even 10% is a bit much sometimes when factoring in giant killers like the O2 and even the STX when set up correctly. An improvement is an improvement, no matter how small, and when value is not factored into it you get hi-fi.
> But in the same breath, you get snake oil, I wont mention names in terms of amps/dacs but you do get overpriced crap that performs poorly at even a few tiers down. ED9 anyone?
> I don't believe in cables, a good copper cable is about it, and a silver plated copper if you want to bring out the highs a bit.
> The gear involved in my opinion has to be of the same tier, headphones and amp and dac, otherwise the limiting factor (in your case the HD650) will do exactly that, limit. Heck peoples ears are often the limiting factor.
> So you see you are not wrong, but you are placing emphasis on value in a market where it is irrelevant.


 
   
   
  I still would not agree that HD650's are the limiting factor.   Heck, a few years ago they were the best headphones on the market. And still to this day are known to scale with gear almost like no other headphones, and that they are truly close to the best on market headphones when used with good gear.  It's just that when you look at facts and measurements, STX will not be beaten by a large margin by any DAC on the market, regardless of price.  That was the point of my first post here, someone asked whether to upgrade from STX to a better DAC, and I said I think its not worth it, because in order to hear any difference, you'd have to pay a lot of money for that new DAC, and for that money you could buy better headphones, which would provide a much bigger improvement in performance than just getting a new DAC.


----------



## PurpleAngel

I'm thinking of getting the Audio Technica ATH-A900X headphones
  Anyone use the A900X with the Asus Xonar Essence STX?
  I'm wondering how well the 40-Ohm A900X will work with the STX's impedance of 10-Ohm.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm thinking of getting the Audio Technica ATH-A900X headphones
> Anyone use the A900X with the Asus Xonar Essence STX?
> I'm wondering how well the 40-Ohm A900X will work with the STX's impedance of 10-Ohm.


 
  or just build the adapter as explained in the link in my sig and your sorted.
   
  Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I still would not agree that HD650's are the limiting factor.   Heck, a few years ago they were the best headphones on the market. And still to this day are known to scale with gear almost like no other headphones, and that they are truly close to the best on market headphones when used with good gear.  It's just that when you look at facts and measurements, STX will not be beaten by a large margin by any DAC on the market, regardless of price.  That was the point of my first post here, someone asked whether to upgrade from STX to a better DAC, and I said I think its not worth it, because in order to hear any difference, you'd have to pay a lot of money for that new DAC, and for that money you could buy better headphones, which would provide a much bigger improvement in performance than just getting a new DAC.


 
  Correct you are, and very at that, to get any possible improvement, will require a lot of money. The only reason I am looking at the Yulong D100 is because it will located far away from my PC. And I am actually very interested to see how it compares, I have a feeling there will barely be a difference with my D7000.
   
  And you know, yeah maybe I shouldn't have said the HD650 is the limiting factor... but you got the point.


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> they feel underpowered, they lack dynamics and punch.


 
   
  I guess this was not a level matched (let alone blind) comparison ?
   
  Quote:  





> STX has a brilliant DAC section, but amp section is only acceptable for higher end headphones.


 
   
  Did you mean lower end headphones ? In any case, as a DAC only, it is not that good value, at 44.1 kHz it is not much better (and in some aspects worse) than the much cheaper Xonar D1, and the ODAC will now also be available at a lower price.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I guess this was not a level matched (let alone blind) comparison ?
> 
> 
> Did you mean lower end headphones ? In any case, as a DAC only, it is not that good value, at 44.1 kHz it is not much better (and in some aspects worse) than the much cheaper Xonar D1, and the ODAC will now also be available at a lower price.


 
   
   
  Nop, its not a blind comparison because difference is too obvious to require one.
  And yes its good value as a DAC, because you can't get a DAC with performance as good as anything else.  And who cares about D1 being close to it at 44.1 khz? What about 48, 96, 192? Its nowhere near as good.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Nop, its not a blind comparison because difference is too obvious to require one.


 
   
  Unexplained "night and day" differences are even more suspicious. After all, people reported hearing them even between cables. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The built-in amplifier is capable of ~120 dB peaks with the HD650, has very low distortion when driving high impedance loads, flat frequency response, and reasonably low noise. The ~10 Ohm output impedance should not be a problem for >300 Ohm headphones either.
   
  Quote:  





> And who cares about D1 being close to it at 44.1 khz? What about 48, 96, 192? Its nowhere near as good.


 
   
  ~99.9% of the available music is 44.1 kHz, therefore, performance at this sample rate is at least somewhat relevant. The STX does have excellent SNR at 48/96/192 kHz, but cheaper alternatives already have low enough noise that is not audible anyway, especially if the volume is controlled at the amplifier. The D1 has flatter frequency response, and it does not clip inter-sample peaks that exceed 0 dBFS, but the high frequency phase response is worse, and there is no EMI shield. Both should have low enough distortion and jitter. Overall, both cards have decent DAC performance that should be difficult to tell apart from an "ideal" DAC in a blind test. But for someone who only wants a DAC (and will not use the TPA6120, the ADC, or any Dobly technologies), the higher price of the STX might better be spent on something external. The Titanium HD could also be worth considering, particularly for gaming, but the availability of information/specs is limited, so I am not sure how it compares to the Xonars.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Whats your point? STX amp is nowhere near good enough for HD650's. It will make them loud, but not sound as good as they can. My point is, HD650's with a proper amp is more than good enough to hear a clear difference in quality between various DAC's, and there is no difference between a DAC in STX and the M1DAC. And I bet its the same story for any other DAC under 1000$.


 

 My point is that i will need to buy an AMP and/or DAC for HD650 to shine while D5000/7000 outperform HD650 just stright from my STX so i don't need to spent twice more money on HD800 to enjoy my music regardless of genre


----------



## SimmoW

Hey, just thought I'd let you know, I tried playing a brand new 2L Bluray (just google 2L, norwegian...) on my reasonably decent system (although only with my vintage original PS3, not sure of its DAC quality!). The speakers are very special to me, Miller and Kreisel surround setup, a brilliant system, sheesh the in-ceiling speakers cost me $800 EACH 12 yrs ago! The 
   
  I played the bluray through both DTS 5.1 and stereo versions. 5.1 is pretty special, all that amazing quality coming out individually from each speaker.
   
  Yet I was still disappointed compared to my first listen to other less HD tracks on the pc with the Grados. No intense attack, a certain flatness to the music. So I tried listening via the headphones. A little better, but not awe inspiring as you'd expect of such an amazing recording   - see here, these guys are OBSESSED with high res..
   
  So I tried playing it on the pc. Ah, that's more like it, airy strings, real emotion and the character of the instruments coming out. You know, that hairs on the back of your neck tingly feeling. Hahahaha, either I need to get a decent Bluray and DAC (hmm, the opa-95, come to papa?), or just keep on listening on my pc. That'll have to do me for now, until that classic gets much cheaper. 
   
  Any one know, is the ps3 really that bad with music?


----------



## SimmoW

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Yes but I have only placed them in the I/V, I have yet to experiment with the buffer. so only 2 adapters are needed. I think a third may be too much, SimmoW if you want i can feed the line out to my Onkyo and and plug my AKGs in there and give it a bash with my other opamps?
> 
> as PurpleAngel suggested, or from Hifiic


 
  Hey thanks for the offer, why not, give it a go, experimentation's fun. I'll try the harsh clear stuff first, then seek everyone's opinion as to the next stage.
   
Are these the right ones to go for?  his listings are confusing to me, I can't see any reference to the asus, so they must be generic components. Sheesh, I'm in your hands! I'll get 3 in case. then I'll need a diagram to be sure which ones to swap. Or it's brick city for me!
   
  Thanks again, what a helpful group of chaps you are. All the high-end $$$$ coy's should pay you in-kind to keep you off the forums


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





simmow said:


> Hey thanks for the offer, why not, give it a go, experimentation's fun. I'll try the harsh clear stuff first, then seek everyone's opinion as to the next stage.
> Are these the right ones to go for?  his listings are confusing to me, I can't see any reference to the asus, so they must be generic components. Sheesh, I'm in your hands! I'll get 3 in case. then I'll need a diagram to be sure which ones to swap. Or it's brick city for me!
> Thanks again, what a helpful group of chaps you are. All the high-end $$$$ coy's should pay you in-kind to keep you off the forums


 
  Close, the ones you have listed are one AD797 SOIC o-amp per adapter. but you did get the correct seller
  You want the ones with two AD797BR op-amps per SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
  Usually they have pictures showing one op-amp soldered on top and one picture with the other op-amp soldered to the bottom, opposite sides of the PCB.
  I had order ten of the dual (AD797BR) op-amp adapters and only used 3 so far, so seven left over, I guess I could sell 3 for $30 + shipping.
  I have not gotten around for testing the 7 unused ones yet.


----------



## kumaiti

I have been using the ST and following this thread for about an year or so.

 This sound card would have been utterly perfect if it had OPTICAL INPUT. I would simply love to plug my xbox directly into it.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Close, the ones you have listed are one AD797 SOIC o-amp per adapter. but you did get the correct seller
> You want the ones with two AD797BR op-amps per SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
> Usually they have pictures showing one op-amp soldered on top and one picture with the other op-amp soldered to the bottom, opposite sides of the PCB.
> I had order ten of the dual (AD797BR) op-amp adapters and only used 3 so far, so seven left over, I guess I could sell 3 for $30 + shipping.
> I have not gotten around for testing the 7 unused ones yet.


 
  he is correct, close but no cigar.
   
  Quote: 





simmow said:


> Hey thanks for the offer, why not, give it a go, experimentation's fun. I'll try the harsh clear stuff first, then seek everyone's opinion as to the next stage.
> 
> Are these the right ones to go for?  his listings are confusing to me, I can't see any reference to the asus, so they must be generic components. Sheesh, I'm in your hands! I'll get 3 in case. then I'll need a diagram to be sure which ones to swap. Or it's brick city for me!
> 
> Thanks again, what a helpful group of chaps you are. All the high-end $$$$ coy's should pay you in-kind to keep you off the forums


 
  They are generic components, all opamps are, the odds that they will list the STX is very small. thats why you you should ask here or in the opamp thread, because the ones that meet voltage spec would already have been picked and used somewhere.


----------



## firev1

Quote: 





simmow said:


> Hey, just thought I'd let you know, I tried playing a brand new 2L Bluray (just google 2L, norwegian...) on my reasonably decent system (although only with my vintage original PS3, not sure of its DAC quality!). The speakers are very special to me, Miller and Kreisel surround setup, a brilliant system, sheesh the in-ceiling speakers cost me $800 EACH 12 yrs ago! The
> 
> I played the bluray through both DTS 5.1 and stereo versions. 5.1 is pretty special, all that amazing quality coming out individually from each speaker.
> 
> ...


 
  If its possible I would like to see your listening room, the others can point out why 5.1 may not be so well played in your room.


----------



## SimmoW

It's,not the room or setup, I know. It's clearly the input into the receiver. Sound via headphones is nowhere as good as on the pc. The install was done by a real pro, we were smart and had it all pre wired at frame stage! 

If anyone has done some comparos of a ps3 versus dedicated dac I'd he interested in the results- ill google too. Actually, I bet it's the 12 yo dac in the receiver, as I feed it via optical. What I rooly need to do is feed each of the 5.1 channels sweet dac inputs. One day..

Really, the difference when using headphones is huge. If I get some spare time, I should move the whole pc into the lounge and connect the stereo RCA outputs to the amp.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





simmow said:


> It's,not the room or setup, I know. It's clearly the input into the receiver. Sound via headphones is nowhere as good as on the pc. The install was done by a real pro, we were smart and had it all pre wired at frame stage!
> If anyone has done some comparos of a ps3 versus dedicated dac I'd he interested in the results- ill google too. Actually, I bet it's the 12 yo dac in the receiver, as I feed it via optical. What I rooly need to do is feed each of the 5.1 channels sweet dac inputs. One day..
> Really, the difference when using headphones is huge. If I get some spare time, I should move the whole pc into the lounge and connect the stereo RCA outputs to the amp.


 
  you should, you really really really should


----------



## SimmoW

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Yes but I have only placed them in the I/V, I have yet to experiment with the buffer. so only 2 adapters are needed. I think a third may be too much, SimmoW if you want i can feed the line out to my Onkyo and and plug my AKGs in there and give it a bash with my other opamps?
> 
> as PurpleAngel suggested, or from Hifiic


 
   
  Hey thanks, I've just ordered these from Hifiic, good price. 
   
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/220818191851?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1984wt_711


----------



## Asukara

Hi,
  I am considering buying that sound card but I would like to know if it would be the best solution for me.
  I have a NAD C316 and some Focal Speakers and a Alessandro MS-2. Which opamp should I use?
  How good is it compared to a USB Dac of the same price?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





asukara said:


> Hi,
> I am considering buying that sound card but I would like to know if it would be the best solution for me.
> I have a NAD C316 and some Focal Speakers and a Alessandro MS-2. Which opamp should I use?
> How good is it compared to a USB Dac of the same price?


 
   
  Yes it would be a good solution to everyone who wants to greatly improve the sound quality of their PC based sound
   system.  How good is it compared to USB DAC of the same price? Well, let me put it this way, Cambridge Audio DacMagic or Musical Fidelity M1DAC are no better, and even inferior in some ways, and they are both 500-800$.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





asukara said:


> Hi,
> I am considering buying that sound card but I would like to know if it would be the best solution for me.
> I have a NAD C316 and some Focal Speakers and a Alessandro MS-2. Which opamp should I use?
> How good is it compared to a USB Dac of the same price?


 
*dirbigpr* is right.
   
  As for opamps, thats trickier then you would expect. for absolute clarity, AD797 in I/V, and then play with the buffer until it rounds out the sound the way you like it, because the AD797 is the best in terms of clarity, but its also harsh, and can be cold. A good start for a buffer would be 2xLME49710HA to dip8. But I use the headphone jack, so I haven't played with the buffer much, your kind of on your own, or going to haveto wait for another response


----------



## hknymz

Chime of Tiger , enjoy 
   
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/chimes.jpg/


----------



## SPEKker

Hello guys.
I'm using Xonar ST with my Altec's Speaker and AKG Q701. It sounds good for me with the speaker but not with Q701. The Q701 really lags the bass, feels light as feather. Can anyone please recomend me the best combination of OPAMP that would give my Q701 the punch of bass.

At first i was about to purchase an Amp such as Matrix M-Stage, due to my curiosity that whether other opamp would give my Q701 enough juice or not. However, if I have to switch the cable at the back of my case whenever I want to use speaker or headphone, it would be a pain for me. Is there any amp that can plug in both speaker and headphone, then allow me to select which gear i want to use through some kind of switch at the amp. 

PS. I appologize for any weird grammar, not a native speaker of English though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hknymz said:


> Chime of Tiger , enjoy
> 
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/chimes.jpg/


 
  This link looks like a scam, beware.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





spekker said:


> Hello guys.
> I'm using Xonar ST with my Altec's Speaker and AKG Q701. It sounds good for me with the speaker but not with Q701. The Q701 really lags the bass, feels light as feather. Can anyone please recomend me the best combination of OPAMP that would give my Q701 the punch of bass.
> At first i was about to purchase an Amp such as Matrix M-Stage, due to my curiosity that whether other opamp would give my Q701 enough juice or not. However, if I have to switch the cable at the back of my case whenever I want to use speaker or headphone, it would be a pain for me. Is there any amp that can plug in both speaker and headphone, then allow me to select which which gear i want to use through some kind of switch at the amp.
> PS. I appologize for any weird grammar, not a native speaker of English though.


 
   
  the stock I/V opamps the JRC2114 is already bass heavy, the AKG Q701 is bass light, so yeah sorry your screwed.
   
  No amp will fix it. Try using an equalizer like Electri-Q


----------



## SPEKker

wir3d said:


> the stock I/V opamps the JRC2114 is already bass heavy, the AKG Q701 is bass light, so yeah sorry your screwed.
> 
> No amp will fix it. Try using an equalizer like Electri-Q




OMG, that sad. I was thinking about swaping the three original opamps with three 49710ha. Is this a good decision? My bass is not going down with these opamp right? Cuz some said their bass improve a bit plus some quality of sound with the 49710HA


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





spekker said:


> OMG, that sad. I was thinking about swaping the three original opamps with three 49710ha. Is this a good decision? My bass is not going down with these opamp right? Cuz some said their bass improve a bit plus some quality of sound with the 49710HA


 

 I have LME49710HA, you actually need it in 2xLME49710HA to DIP8, and its a HUGE adapter, you cant put 2 next to each other in I/V, I tried, with spacers and no shield... not a good idea, not very stable, worked though.
   
  It will improve bass CLARITY, the stock JRC2114 are muddy, NOT QUANTITY.
   

   
  the Q701 are just lacking in subbass, and some midbass.
   
  Using an equalizer is really your only hope if the JRC2114 did not have enough quantity.


----------



## hknymz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> This link looks like a scam, beware.


 
  it is hi-res wallpaper of chime of tiger logo.i did myself on 3ds max.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





spekker said:


> I'm using Xonar ST with my Altec's Speaker and AKG Q701. It sounds good for me with the speaker but not with Q701. The Q701 really lags the bass, feels light as feather. Can anyone please recomend me the best combination of OPAMP that would give my Q701 the punch of bass.


 
   
  Replacing the op-amps will not add more bass, you need to use equalization for a real difference, or different headphones (e.g. DT990 if you prefer open).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Replacing the op-amps will not add more bass, you need to use equalization for a real difference, or different headphones (e.g. DT990 if you prefer open).


 
  thats what I said


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hknymz said:


> it is hi-res wallpaper of chime of tiger logo.i did myself on 3ds max.


 
  When i went to the link a virus scam poped up.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I am willing to bet lots of money I do not have that many people here will greatly disagree with that.


 
  HD800's are not that great.  The ORIGINAL ones are superior IMHO...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> HD800's are not that great.  The ORIGINAL ones are superior IMHO...


 
  Original?
   
  Superior in enjoyment does not equal superior in SQ


----------



## Audioexcels

BTW....
   
  ST is superior than the STX no?  Or are both identical sounding in spite the CS2000 used to help lower jitter on the ST?


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> ST is superior than the STX no?  Or are both identical sounding in spite the CS2000 used to help lower jitter on the ST?


 
   
  I doubt the jitter on the STX is audible anyway, in the Stereophile test all jitter products are below -120 dB. I do not know if the ST fixes the 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz noise problem, though. Of course, only the ST supports the use of the Xonar H6 for multichannel output.


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Original?
> 
> Superior in enjoyment does not equal superior in SQ


 
   
  Very true, and meant to say the HD600's...


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I doubt the jitter on the STX is audible anyway, in the Stereophile test all jitter products are below -120 dB. I do not know if the ST fixes the 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz noise problem, though. Of course, only the ST supports the use of the Xonar H6 for multichannel output.


 
  Yeah...wrong word to toss out.  I'm just interested in the "definitive" sound difference between the two as most have preferred the ST, but I see plenty enjoying the STX to the extent that if the ST was in fact superior, well, it should have shown by now with a lot more posts in this big arse thread about the ST rather than the STX.  Still curious if there has been any definitive conclusions out there about one vs. the other though, and what precisely one hears that another does not hear, etc. etc.
   
  Kinda sucks the sampling rates do what they do.  Will this ever be fixed???


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> Very true, and meant to say the HD600's...


 
  I figured 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  its likened to ultrasones vs denons (with the current specials you can get a pro750 for the same price as the D2k)
   
  More often then not, you will enjoy the Denons more, despite the higher clarity of the Pro750 (This is all based on other opinions, but I am quite sure my deduction is correct.)
   
   
   


audioexcels said:


> Yeah...wrong word to toss out.  I'm just interested in the "definitive" sound difference between the two as most have preferred the ST, but I see plenty enjoying the STX to the extent that if the ST was in fact superior, well, it should have shown by now with a lot more posts in this big arse thread about the ST rather than the STX.  Still curious if there has been any definitive conclusions out there about one vs. the other though, and what precisely one hears that another does not hear, etc. etc.
> 
> Kinda sucks the sampling rates do what they do.  Will this ever be fixed???


 
   
  windows output 24bit 48kHz
  MusicBee output-> WASAPI + resample 48kHz
   
   
  done


----------



## Fastfingaz

Can someone post/pm me a link to buy the *LME49720 OP-AMPS *for my Xonar ST.
   
  Thanks a bunch!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





fastfingaz said:


> Can someone post/e-mail() me a link to buy the *LME49720 OP-AMPS *for my Xonar ST.
> 
> Thanks a bunch!


 
  dont put your email out on the forum like this. you become a target for spammers.
  try ebay.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fastfingaz said:


> Can someone post/e-mail(Steve137@gmail.com) me a link to buy the *LME49720 OP-AMPS *for my Xonar ST.


 
  Just get the LME49860NA, they are the same as the LME49720NA, but with a better voltage range.
  Try eBay.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I doubt the jitter on the STX is audible anyway, in the Stereophile test all jitter products are below -120 dB. I do not know if the ST fixes the 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz noise problem, though. Of course, only the ST supports the use of the Xonar H6 for multichannel output.


 

 Very true.  When I chose the STX for my CM1630-06, I was facing an airflow problem that contraindicated the ST:  The integrated fan on the EAH6850DC/2DIS/1GD5/V2 would have been blocked by a PCI 2.2 card in the end slot of the mobo, as all DirectCU® models draw air from alongside the card, rather than on the end as do most AMD® Radeon HD reference video cards past the HD 4870.  Were I using the squirrel-cage EAH6870/2DIS/1GD5 rather than a DirectCU® model, airflow blockage would not have been an issue.


----------



## 331099

Has anyone ever tried OPA627AU's?
   
  They are widely known as one of the best OP AMPS, expensive yes. 
   
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/opamp_627au.php#note
   
  Also, is there really enough clearance on the ST/STX for you to put a OP AMP on a adapter with the shield on?
   
  Seems to me like it wouldn't fit.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





maxxender said:


> Has anyone ever tried OPA627AU's?
> 
> They are widely known as one of the best OP AMPS, expensive yes.
> 
> ...


 
  I use three of these AD797BR's with my Essence STX, I'm sure they are only a few millimeters from the shield plate.(image missing)


----------



## 331099

Thanks for the info,
   
  What about OPA627AU? Ever used and/or heard of it?


----------



## 331099

Never mind.


----------



## geoxile

Question about the audio quality of the stock STX. How does it compare to independent USB DACs?
   
  I'm currently using the Xonar DX right now but I've been looking to upgrade. As for audio devices I have the Swan M10 (thinking about getting the M200 Mk III if I can sell the M10) and an AD700 and FX700.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> Question about the audio quality of the stock STX. How does it compare to independent USB DACs?
> I'm currently using the Xonar DX right now but I've been looking to upgrade. As for audio devices I have the Swan M10 (thinking about getting the M200 Mk III if I can sell the M10) and an AD700 and FX700.


 
  The Essence STX (& ST) come with a good DAC, the PCM1792A and drives up to 600-Ohm headphone, as I've replaced my op-amps twice so far, can't remember what it sounds like stock.
  For around $75 you could get a USB DAC to match the STX's DAC for maybe $75, sold off eBay, ships from China.
  The Asus Xonar DX is a fairly good sound card (and DAC), it uses the same audio processor as the STX, the DX is just not that good at driving headphones, get a nice external headphone amplifier, maybe the Objective 2 or Little Dot 1+ Hybrid.
  The Fiio E9 amplifier uses the same audio amplifier chip as the STX.
  There are some fairly decent single tune headphone amplifiers, sold on eBay, prices start at $60, good ones start at $80.


----------



## geoxile

For my headphones I use the Xonar DX's Dolby Headphone, would the emulate surround sound translate well through the amp? Honestly, I don't think my AD700s need an amp maybe when/if I upgrade.
   
  As for the quality of the DAC, for a near $200 sound card that sounds highly disappointing. Would it be better if I simply got an independent DAC between my Xonar DX and the speakers?


----------



## FieldEffect

I'm looking at replacing my soundcard, too. If I don't drive my headphones directly off the soundcard, is there any reason to spend the extra money on an ST or STX over a DX?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> For my headphones I use the Xonar DX's Dolby Headphone, would the emulate surround sound translate well through the amp? Honestly, I don't think my AD700s need an amp maybe when/if I upgrade.


 
    
  You can use the AD700 with the Xonar DX only and no amplifier, it would allow for reasonably high volume without clipping. However, the rather high 100 Ohm output impedance of the card would affect the sound quality somewhat. It adds some (~1 dB) boost to the mid-bass - not necessarily a bad thing with the lean sounding AD700, but the _quality_ of the bass will not be improved - and increase the distortion of the drivers due to the lack of electrical damping. Overall it would not be _bad_ without an amplifier, but there would be some audible difference.
   
  Quote:


geoxile said:


> For my headphones I use the Xonar DX's Dolby Headphone, would the emulate surround sound translate well through the amp?


 
    
  Yes, you can use Dolby Headphone with an amplifier. Just keep the output setting at "headphones", the output jack is still a line out only anyway.
   
  Quote:


> As for the quality of the DAC, for a near $200 sound card that sounds highly disappointing.


 
   
  Well, it is not actually proven that low cost DIY DACs from eBay really match the performance of the STX. But if anything, the fact that even those may sound "good enough" despite probably measuring worse, suggests that investing heavily in DACs is not the best way to improve overall sound quality.
   
  Quote:


> Would it be better if I simply got an independent DAC between my Xonar DX and the speakers?


   
  If you do not hear interference noise from the Xonar DX, then you are much more likely to get better sound by upgrading the headphones/speakers, and/or getting a reasonably good headphone amplifier if you do not already have one.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





fieldeffect said:


> If I don't drive my headphones directly off the soundcard, is there any reason to spend the extra money on an ST or STX over a DX?


 
   
  I would not get them for the DAC alone, but maybe the EMI shielding is useful in some machines (it is not really in mine).


----------



## WiR3D

As I have said before.
   
  Garbage in Garbage out. A good source is vital. But compared to Headphones and amps, a DAC hits the law of diminishing returns early. The Xonars are a notable exception, they are very good value. The ST/STX being the best DAC you can buy without paying easily 3x the price. So for longevity, its a bargain. BUT and here is the BIG but, the ST/STXs DAC is not neutral, its coloured, and I for one am not a fan of the stock opamps. The AD797 will give you best clarity and neutrality, then leave it up to the Amps to do the colouration.
   
  And output impedance is important IMO, but it is worth to note that some headphones prefer a high output impedance. Denons for one don't.
   
   
  If you want want a processor, and DAC, and decent HP amp, all in one, then its a bargain, and you can tweak the sound to your preferences with opamps.


----------



## geoxile

So would the STX be a real step up from my DX? Or is my DX fine as is? If it isn't I'll probably just upgrade my Swan M10 to the M200


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> For my headphones I use the Xonar DX's Dolby Headphone, would the emulate surround sound translate well through the amp? Honestly, I don't think my AD700s need an amp maybe when/if I upgrade.
> As for the quality of the DAC, for a near $200 sound card that sounds highly disappointing. Would it be better if I simply got an independent DAC between my Xonar DX and the speakers?


 
  If you hooked up an external headphone amplifier to the green 3.5mm (1/8" mini-jack), you could still use the 7.1 Dolby Virtual Headphone.
  Personally I would replace the ATH-AD700 with headphones that have more bass.
  You really in general do not need an amplifier for then ATH-AD700, but the Xonar DX is just not that great for driving any headphones.
  The price I quoted ($75) was a for a no-name DAC made in China, I'm sure a name brand would cost $150.
  The STX also comes with a dedicated headphone amplifier, Dolby Digital 7.1, replaceable op-amps, which is a lot more features then a ($75) no-name DAC comes with.
  For around $60 you could add a no-name DAC with digital optical input, for using with speakers, but I doubt you would hear any noticable improvement in the (2.0 or 2.1) speaker sound.


----------



## geoxile

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If you hooked up an external headphone amplifier to the green 3.5mm (1/8" mini-jack), you could still use the 7.1 Dolby Virtual Headphone.
> Personally I would replace the ATH-AD700 with headphones that have more bass.
> You really in general do not need an amplifier for then ATH-AD700, but the Xonar DX is just not that great for driving any headphones.
> The price I quoted ($75) was a for a no-name DAC made in China, I'm sure a name brand would cost $150.
> ...


 
   
  I primarily use my AD700s for gaming, I listen to music on my speakers or just use my Cowon J3 and FX700. Honestly, the AD700s don't sound that good for music, they sound very distant/hollow and I'd argue that it sounds better with the emulated surround sound, simply because it makes the audio sound slightly fuller. but I don't use the AD700s for music listening so it's irrelevant.
   
  Wait... So are you saying the $75 no-name DAC would have the same hardware as a more expensive name brand? And how much of a difference does swapping op-amps make?


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





fieldeffect said:


> I'm looking at replacing my soundcard, too. If I don't drive my headphones directly off the soundcard, is there any reason to spend the extra money on an ST or STX over a DX?


 

 Indeed there is, if the computer system already has other known or potentially RFI-heavy expansion cards.  Some computers are hamstrung internally with RFI in the vicinity of the expansion slot where the audio card is to reside:  My Asus® CM1630-06, for instance, had been previously fitted with an EAH6850 DirectCU® video card in the middle of the expansions section of its stock M4A78-EM motherboard (two PCI 2.2, one PCI-Express x16 and one PCI-Express x1); the XONAR® D2X, ST, STX and Xense are all outfitted with radio-grade shielding for the analog output section, unlike most of the other audio cards from all other manufacturers on the market.  (Creative Laboratories® uses similar shielding only on the SB0886 Titanium Fatal1ty®, SB1270 Titanium HD, and SB1354/SB1356 Recon3D® Fatal1ty®.)
   
  The XONAR® Essence ST and STX can drive any external headphone amplifier from the dual-RCA analog output jacks ("2 Speakers").  Although it ships stock with two JRC2114D's in the I-V and one National Semiconductor® LM4562N in the line-level buffer, upgrades are available for all three positions from Texas Instruments® (e.g. the Brown-Burr® OPA-series, National Semiconductor® LME41985FA and/or LME41986NA, &c.) and some other manufacturers.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> I primarily use my AD700s for gaming, I listen to music on my speakers or just use my Cowon J3 and FX700. Honestly, the AD700s don't sound that good for music, they sound very distant/hollow and I'd argue that it sounds better with the emulated surround sound, simply because it makes the audio sound slightly fuller. but I don't use the AD700s for music listening so it's irrelevant.
> 
> Wait... So are you saying the $75 no-name DAC would have the same hardware as a more expensive name brand? And how much of a difference does swapping op-amps make?


 
  Well stuff from China may not use high quality support parts as a more name brand device might.
  A $10 DAC chip can be used in a no-name or name brand hardware.
  Op-amps is more about changing the sound, I believe stock op-amps on the STX are more neutral.
  Some op-amps are better at bass or treble, sound stage. smoothness, etc.
  I'm currently using AD797BR op-amps, I like to think the AD797BR enhances the sound.


----------



## geoxile

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Well stuff from China may not use high quality support parts as a more name brand device might.
> A $10 DAC chip can be used in a no-name or name brand hardware.
> Op-amps is more about changing the sound, I believe stock op-amps on the STX are more neutral.
> Some op-amps are better at bass or treble, sound stage. smoothness, etc.
> I'm currently using AD797BR op-amps, I like to think the AD797BR enhances the sound.


 
   
  Alright, enough with the no-name DAC stuff, every time you speak of it it seems like the quality of the Xonar STX gets worse.
   
  I'll probably just skip the upgrade for now.


----------



## FieldEffect

Something to think about. I was looking at the SB1356 just yesterday as Best Buy had them on sale for $99, but the S/N ratio was at 102 whereas the Asus Xonar D1/DX is at 116. So how do you compare 116 unshielded to 102 with a big fancy black shield?
  Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> Indeed there is, if the computer system already has other known or potentially RFI-heavy expansion cards.  Some computers are hamstrung internally with RFI in the vicinity of the expansion slot where the audio card is to reside:  My Asus® CM1630-06, for instance, had been previously fitted with an EAH6850 DirectCU® video card in the middle of the expansions section of its stock M4A78-EM motherboard (two PCI 2.2, one PCI-Express x16 and one PCI-Express x1); the XONAR® D2X, ST, STX and Xense are all outfitted with radio-grade shielding for the analog output section, unlike most of the other audio cards from all other manufacturers on the market.  (Creative Laboratories® uses similar shielding only on the SB0886 Titanium Fatal1ty®, SB1270 Titanium HD, and SB1354/SB1356 Recon3D® Fatal1ty®.)


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





fieldeffect said:


> Something to think about. I was looking at the SB1356 just yesterday as Best Buy had them on sale for $99, but the S/N ratio was at 102 whereas the Asus Xonar D1/DX is at 116. So how do you compare 116 unshielded to 102 with a big fancy black shield?


 
  Depends on your pc...., I have a meaty gfx card, meaty Psu, 8x 2000rpm fans, so I need the shielding


----------



## geoxile

So how many PCI-E spaces does the STX take up? By that I mean is it thin enough to fit in between two other devices


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> So how many PCI-E spaces does the STX take up? By that I mean is it thin enough to fit in between two other devices


 
  Yes.


----------



## -shu

Question: when you use the Essence STX for Dolby Headphone gaming, what settings do you use in the main panel? Specifically: should the audio channel setting be set to 2 channels, 6 channels, 8 channels? :S And what should the in-game settings be set to?
   
  Running this with a Q701 btw, if anyone has any other suggestions to improve Dolby Headphone experience or even general sound quality (EQ settings, special effects, etc.) then please do 
  Also, is Dolby Headphone even worth it? How much of a difference does it really make for one's gaming experience? In terms of single player "fun" factor that is, I don't really play competitive games often.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





-shu said:


> Question: when you use the Essence STX for Dolby Headphone gaming, what settings do you use in the main panel? Specifically: should the audio channel setting be set to 2 channels, 6 channels, 8 channels? :S And what should the in-game settings be set to?
> 
> Running this with a Q701 btw, if anyone has any other suggestions to improve Dolby Headphone experience or even general sound quality (EQ settings, special effects, etc.) then please do
> Also, is Dolby Headphone even worth it? How much of a difference does it really make for one's gaming experience? In terms of single player "fun" factor that is, I don't really play competitive games often.


 
  its definitely worth it!!! Definitely put it on.
   
  output 8ch if the  game supports it, otherwise 6ch, turn on dolby headphone. Set windows audio to 24bit(for everything not just games) and set the windows out to 48kHz (doesn't matter in games really) and for music set your audio player (MusicBee and foobar are the best) to resample to 48khz with a proper plugin (musicbee's built in is quite good.)
   
  also in BF3 TURN OFF ENHANCED STEREO!!!! and the same for any other game, and set it to home cinema or 7.1/5.1.
   
  i hate Origin, but BF3 is amazing with dolby headphone


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> its definitely worth it!!! Definitely put it on.
> 
> output 8ch if the  game supports it, otherwise 6ch, turn on dolby headphone. Set windows audio to 24bit(for everything not just games) and set the windows out to 48kHz (doesn't matter in games really) and for music set your audio player (MusicBee and foobar are the best) to resample to 48khz with a proper plugin (musicbee's built in is quite good.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Will try this out.  How many channels does BF3 support?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jdip said:


> Will try this out.  How many channels does BF3 support?


 
  7.1


----------



## FieldEffect

You can run 6, 7, or 8 channels into headphones? Never heard of this. I always thought headphones with strictly 2 channel.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





fieldeffect said:


> You can run 6, 7, or 8 channels into headphones? Never heard of this. I always thought headphones with strictly 2 channel.


 
   
  Dolby Headphone simulates a virtual multichannel speaker setup, the 8-channel audio is converted to stereo using the HRTF from each speaker position.


----------



## FieldEffect

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Dolby Headphone simulates a virtual multichannel speaker setup, the 8-channel audio is converted to stereo using the HRTF from each speaker position.


 

 Wild


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> 7.1


 
  So what do you set "Audio Channel" to in the Xonar Audio Center?  The one with 2, 4, 6 and 8 as options.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jdip said:


> So what do you set "Audio Channel" to in the Xonar Audio Center?  The one with 2, 4, 6 and 8 as options.


 
  7.1 is 2-front channels, 2-side channels, 2-rear channels, 1-center channel, 1-sub-woofer, total of "8-channels"
  the .1 refers to the sub-woofer
  5.1 is 6-channels


----------



## geoxile

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> its definitely worth it!!! Definitely put it on.
> 
> output 8ch if the  game supports it, otherwise 6ch, turn on dolby headphone. Set windows audio to 24bit(for everything not just games) and set the windows out to 48kHz (doesn't matter in games really) and for music set your audio player (MusicBee and foobar are the best) to resample to 48khz with a proper plugin (musicbee's built in is quite good.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  What is the point of setting the audio to 24bit? Very few sources support it and I've run into a number of compatibility issues with games (mainly ports).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> What is the point of setting the audio to 24bit? Very few sources support it and I've run into a number of compatibility issues with games (mainly ports).


 
  Digitial volume control, at 16bit you lose information, at 24bit it just pads 16bit data with 0's. This is using the STX as the source. if your using a seperate dac then it doesn't matter too much depending on how the dac works.


----------



## germanium

I decided that rather than get new opamps for my STX that I would take my current mods to thier logical conclusion & add more metalized film cap bypasses to the power supply. I decided to go very large due to having the room to do so. What a difference!!!! I now have 66.8 uf worth of metalized film power supply bypasses. 4 x 12 uf bypassing the 4 220 uf caps on the opamp & headphone amp power supply & 4x4.7 uf bypassing the 2 100uf caps closest to the  DAC's.
   
  More sense of power through the audio band, even in the bass yet has improved the open sound signature through the mids while improving the sense of dynamics there as well. Same with the high frequencies. Instruments still sound correct but ambience extraction is hugely improved. Soft instruments are more clearly deliniated even in the presence of louder instruments. More of the harmonic structure is revealed than before. Soundstage has improved as well as positioning instruments in that soundstage. A pretty incredible upgrade to the sound. 
   
  All caps are noninductive wound polyester metalized film caps.


----------



## giedrys

thanks for no help at all


----------



## stv014

.


----------



## germanium

Did some testing of the soundcard after the modifications. There was no change in the distortion spectrum. There was increased noise but I had also changed cases between my last tests & these tests which put my power supply right next the soundcard. the case itself is quieter than my old case but with the power supply right next to the soundcard the noise spec doesn't look as good however noise is still inaudibly low & does not hide any of the distortion spectrum which is at the exact same level as before. Frequency response is identical as well but sound is very very different not in perceived frequency response but in dynamics & detail retrieval.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Did some testing of the soundcard after the modifications. There was no change in the distortion spectrum. There was increased noise but I had also changed cases between my last tests & these tests which put my power supply right next the soundcard. the case itself is quieter than my old case but with the power supply right next to the soundcard the noise spec doesn't look as good however noise is still inaudibly low & does not hide any of the distortion spectrum which is at the exact same level as before. Frequency response is identical as well but sound is very very different not in perceived frequency response but in dynamics & detail retrieval.


 
  Really? it that much different?


----------



## Novorei

Hello.
   
  Questions:
   
  Is it still woth to buy a Xonar? They will refresh the line soon?
   
  Out of the box whats better: STX or ST?
   
  With XO upgrade whats better: STX or ST?
   
  Which opamps(for speakers and headphone outputs) would provide good overall performance? Which would excel?
   
  Whats the recommended upgrade for the power supply line?
   
  These 3 upgrades are the most important ones?
   
  I do not intend to make upgrades that provide minimal gain, add dongles or requires too much effort and time because increasing cost+time=money.
   
  It will be used with a pair of monitors. Today it's a Edifier C200 (they are not know in US). Tomorrow perhaps Samson A8/A6.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





novorei said:


> Is it still woth to buy a Xonar? They will refresh the line soon?
> Out of the box whats better: STX or ST?
> With XO upgrade whats better: STX or ST?
> Which op-amps(for speakers and headphone outputs) would provide good overall performance? Which would excel?
> ...


 
  Asus just come out with the Phoebus, DGX & DSX sound cards.
  Asus has not announced other other cards.
  The ST is slightly better then the STX (some clock thing).
  XO upgrade?
  LME49860NA op-amps are a low cost upgrade. ($15?).
  AD797BR op-amps is a $45 upgrade.


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> AD797BR op-amps is a $45 upgrade.


 
   
  Would these be suitable?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Analog-Devices-AD797BR-Ultralow-noise-op-amp-/260820184884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cba182f34
   
  Found these for even cheaper:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-AD797BR-AD797-Ultralow-Distortion-Ultralow-Noise-Op-Amp-/221029923924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337668fc54


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Really? it that much different?


 
  Yes, that much different


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Would these be suitable?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Analog-Devices-AD797BR-Ultralow-noise-op-amp-/260820184884?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cba182f34
> Found these for even cheaper:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-AD797BR-AD797-Ultralow-Distortion-Ultralow-Noise-Op-Amp-/221029923924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337668fc54


 
  Those are the op-amps I'm talking about and are currently used in my Essence STX.
  Just so you know, the STX use 3 dual channel (DIP-8) op-amps, the AD797BR are single channel (SOIC) op-amps.
  So you need 6 AD797BR op-amps and 3 Dual SOIC to Dip-8 adapters.
  The AD797BRs need to be soldered in pairs to the adapters.
   
  The LME49860NAs are dual channel DIP-8 op-amps.


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Those are the op-amps I'm talking about and are currently used in my Essence STX.
> Just so you know, the STX use 3 dual channel (DIP-8) op-amps, the AD797BR are single channel (SOIC) op-amps.
> So you need 6 AD797BR op-amps and 3 Dual SOIC to Dip-8 adapters.
> The AD797BRs need to be soldered in pairs to the adapters.


 
  Would these work? They seem to come soldered already:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pieces-AD797BR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-OPA627AU-/120757514941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1db572bd
   
  Judging by "*SOIC to DIP*" in the title.
   
  I went ahead and bought 3 of these LME49860NA, I hope I got the right thing:
   
  http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=LME49860NA/NOPBvirtualkey99990000virtualkey926-LME49860NA/NOPB


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Would these work? They seem to come soldered already:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pieces-AD797BR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-OPA627AU-/120757514941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1db572bd
> Judging by "*SOIC to DIP*" in the title.
> I went ahead and bought 3 of these LME49860NA, I hope I got the right thing:
> http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=LME49860NA/NOPBvirtualkey99990000virtualkey926-LME49860NA/NOPB


 
  The LME49860NAs are correct.
   
  The AD797BRs you listed are single op-amps per adapter, you need two op-amps per adapter.
  This is who I bought my pre-soldered AD797BRs from.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-/350553500538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519e9deb7a


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The LME49860NAs are correct.
> 
> The AD797BRs you listed are single op-amps per adapter, you need two op-amps per adapter.
> This is who I bought my pre-soldered AD797BRs from.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-/350553500538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519e9deb7a


 

 You sir are a life saver. Thank you very much. +rep
   
  While we're at the OPAMP topic, the H6 board comes with a ton of OPAMPS.. look at this thing:
   





   
  How many do I need to buy to satisfy all 5.1 6 channels?
   
  PS. This is Xonar ST + H6 combo I'm reffering to here. Not to confuse it with the STX card.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> You sir are a life saver. Thank you very much. +rep
> 
> While we're at the OPAMP topic, the H6 board comes with a ton of OPAMPS.. look at this thing:
> 
> ...


 
  I believe the H6 is six channel and uses the op-amps on the ST for the other two channels, total 8 channels
  total of 12 op-amps, so I'm guessing 9 op-amps to cover 6 channels, but which 9??
  I'm guessing the ST card still covers the front 2 channels and the H6 does 2-side, 2-rear, 1-center, 1-subwoofer.
  I'm going to "guess" the black and red cover center & sub. on the H6


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Yes, that much different


 
  Take some pictures  I may do it one day.


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I believe the H6 is six channel and uses the op-amps on the ST for the other two channels, total 8 channels
> total of 12 op-amps, so I'm guessing 9 op-amps to cover 6 channels, but which 9??
> I'm guessing the ST card still covers the front 2 channels and the H6 does 2-side, 2-rear, 1-center, 1-subwoofer.
> I'm going to "guess" the black and red cover center & sub. on the H6


 




  This is how they're laid out.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> This is how they're laid out.


 
  Oops, I was wrong about the center/sub jacks, good thing there are Head-Fiers better informed then me.


----------



## theShaz

What do you make of the OPAMPS under the red circles vs. the ones under the green circles?
   
  This is hella confusing! >.<


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> What do you make of the OPAMPS under the red circles vs. the ones under the green circles?
> 
> This is hella confusing! >.<


 
  Green circles = Voltage/Current conversion opamps (one for each channel)
  red circles = Buffer opamps. (one for both channels)


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Green circles = Voltage/Current conversion opamps (one for each channel)
> red circles = Buffer opamps. (one for both channels)


 
   
  So I don't need to mess with the Buffer opamps, just the the ones under the green circles.
   
  That should be a total of 6 opamps, one per channel. (ST (Front-R, Front-L), H6 (Center, Sub, Rear-R and Rear-L).
   
  Am I correct in that assumption?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> So I don't need to mess with the Buffer opamps, just the the ones under the green circles.
> 
> That should be a total of 6 opamps, one per channel. (ST (Front-R, Front-L), H6 (Center, Sub, Rear-R and Rear-L).
> 
> Am I correct in that assumption?


 
  nope. Mess with them all. it allows you to have different combinations. 
  THS4032 is a nice smooth and detailed opamp, to me its the best compromise.
  AD797 is the most detailed, but its unstable. I don't care TBH it just means it may eventually pack up (the board will be fine) just dont do the Resistor mod on it to stabilize it, that will break the board.
   
  OPA827 is boring and sluggish. 
   
  I have a feeling the 2xLME49710HA will be a good buffer. but its not exactly cheap.
   
   
   
  from all my reading I have this list of opamps to AVOID!
   

 OPA2134P <- massive downgrade from OPA2132
 OPA2107 -harsh, also quoted as polite?
 OPA637- TO-99, balls expensive and difficult to place properly
 NE5532 - ****
 LME49720HA - has screwed up mids, good bass though
 LT1028 or LT1028CS8 - aggressive treble
 LT1358 - conflicting reviews, bad bad match in I/V for STX, but good in others
 HDAM OPA Sun v2 - bright
 HDAM OPA Moon - blurry aka too tubey
 LT1469 - highs are too much, mids resonate, but ultra detailed, possibly harsh
   
These are some I wanted to try:

 LME49990MA -Another good one, not full of flaws like the LME497xxx or LME498xxx series
 AD8599AR - supposed to be a non-picky more stable and less harsh version of the AD797
 OPA1611AID -Reccomended by TI, also non-picky.
 OPA2132PA -for buffer slot
   
And some I still havent researched (sound wise they should be good, but not so sure about stability wise.)

 LT1122CS8
 LT1208CS8
 OPA132UA


----------



## theShaz

Thanks WiR3D. at least that gives me somewhere to start. I'm going to try and buy a few samples of the following:
   
  LME49990MA
 AD8599AR
 OPA1611AID
 OPA2132PA
 OPA132UA
 LT1122CS8
 LT1208CS8
  
  Only problem is, I don't know which ones I'm going to need an adapter for and which ones I won't. It would also be great if someone can point me to a place where I can purchase the adapter and make my own OpAmp combos. (I have a soldering stick)


----------



## deathzero34

Well the pin out need to be similar for the circuit to work properly. So you would need to check the new OPAMP vs the old OPAMP to see if the pin are the same thing. If yes no modification required, if no ....
   
  Although most Opamp packaging usually sport the same pinout for simplicity sake for engeneer.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Thanks WiR3D. at least that gives me somewhere to start. I'm going to try and buy a few samples of the following:
> 
> LME49990MA
> AD8599AR
> ...


 
  Well they all need to be dual. and all need to be dip8. Ebay is your friend. goodtronic is willing to get you stuff they dont have listed and build all the adapter for you, and at a good price. The problem being there build quality is only ok. But for experimenting its fine in my books. and to note the AD8599 is expensive!
   
  I have/would just contact goodtronic and get a quote for 2x each of those in dip8 Dual format, then just add one item to the cart, and request total with the quote they gave you as a comment.
   
  Boom.
   
  And I do recommend getting the THS4032 while your at it, it is a good one.


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I have/would just contact goodtronic and get a quote for 2x each of those in dip8 Dual format, then just add one item to the cart, and request total with the quote they gave you as a comment.
> 
> Boom.
> 
> And I do recommend getting the THS4032 while your at it, it is a good one.


 
  Just sent him/her/it (lol) an Ebay Msg with the full list including the THS4032, let's see what he comes back with.
   
  Thanks for reminding me about the THS4032, that needed to go on my master list.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Just sent him/her/it (lol) an Ebay Msg with the full list including the THS4032, let's see what he comes back with.
> 
> Thanks for reminding me about the THS4032, that needed to go on my master list.


 
  Keep us posted, that was my second master list. I haven't bought all of those yet, but i want to.
   
  My previous list was:

 AD797BR
 LT1057ANC
 OPA827ANC8
 2xLME49710HA
 THS4032
 OPA2134 (I made a mistake when I ordered it, I meant to Order the OPA2132, but it never arrived anyway lol.)
   
   
  btw you should really get a set headphones. AKG K242HD or AKG K240 studio / MKII really show the differences in the opamps clearly, they also scale well with good equipment, and are dirt cheap nowadays.


----------



## theShaz

I wish I can just shell out cash for headphones but I know that after this project is done they'll get thrown away. I simply can't wear headphones. It bothers the living hell out of me. I can't stand anything anywhere near my ear or inside of it. Yes call me a weirdo, that's just the way I am. That being said, I have a Bose Around-Ear set that I use for extreme situations like when I'm on an airplane, etc., but I'm not sure what its specs are or how decent they are. They sound great as far Mids and Highs, but damn they're weak on the Bass.. and to a sad level.
   
  On another note, the Essence ST was delivered today. I got it all installed and setup. And can I just say that this has been probably the easiest driver installation I've ever experienced in my 15+ years with computers? It's unbelievable. I can't believe I tolerated Creative's shoddy drivers for so long. I mean we had to go out of our way downloading some russian guy's modded stuff to make them work right. What now widely known as _PAX_. It's a terrible experience as much as it is a sad one. I'm so glad ASUS worked hard on this. I literally had no other choice but this card and I'm very happy so far.
   
  I'm hoping my Z-5500's will be here by the end of the week. It looks like I am going to have to go with the TOSLINK route for the time being until my H6 Daughter Board arrives all the way from the UK, I hope it won't take a month >.<
   
  Still waiting to hear back from OpAmp guy..


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Keep us posted, that was my second master list. I haven't bought all of those yet, but i want to.
> My previous list was:
> 
> AD797BR
> ...


 
  I do like the sound of my AKG K242HD.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I wish I can just shell out cash for headphones but I know that after this project is done they'll get thrown away. I simply can't wear headphones. It bothers the living hell out of me. I can't stand anything anywhere near my ear or inside of it. Yes call me a weirdo, that's just the way I am. That being said, I have a Bose Around-Ear set that I use for extreme situations like when I'm on an airplane, etc., but I'm not sure what its specs are or how decent they are. They sound great as far Mids and Highs, but damn they're weak on the Bass.. and to a sad level.
> 
> On another note, the Essence ST was delivered today. I got it all installed and setup. And can I just say that this has been probably the easiest driver installation I've ever experienced in my 15+ years with computers? It's unbelievable. I can't believe I tolerated Creative's shoddy drivers for so long. I mean we had to go out of our way downloading some russian guy's modded stuff to make them work right. What now widely known as _PAX_. It's a terrible experience as much as it is a sad one. I'm so glad ASUS worked hard on this. I literally had no other choice but this card and I'm very happy so far.
> 
> ...


 
  Lol well they may look ok, but underneath they are just about as screwed up. get the UNi Xonar drivers, you can still use the same front end, it just sorts out the background stuff, especially the latency issues.
   
  $65~80 for a pair of $220 headphones  but its ok its your call.


----------



## WiR3D

*@theShaz*
   
  OH CRAP! I made a mistake, its not goodtronic, its "*hifiic*"
   
  whoops! sorry man.


----------



## peck1234

Just bought this card guys, intailly (Xonar was way to bright for my liking)  Hope the blaster delivers. 
   
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





peck1234 said:


> Xonar was way to bright for my liking


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Lol well they may look ok, but underneath they are just about as screwed up. get the UNi Xonar drivers, you can still use the same front end, it just sorts out the background stuff, especially the latency issues.


 
   
  I went to the UNi Xonar page and after 30 minutes of attempting to find a download link I gave up. Maybe you can point me to the right place since I'm blind apparently.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> $65~80 for a pair of $220 headphones  but its ok its your call.


 
   
  Where the heck can I buy em for $80? lol If they are that cheap I wouldn't mind. But where I was looking it listed them for $350...
   
    
  Quote: 





> *@theShaz*
> 
> OH CRAP! I made a mistake, its not goodtronic, its "*hifiic*"
> 
> whoops! sorry man.


 
   
  Haha its ok, I bet that other guy went What!? I'm going to copy my message and send it to hifiic...
   
  No wonder dood man hadn't responded to me yet.. xD


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I went to the UNi Xonar page and after 30 minutes of attempting to find a download link I gave up. Maybe you can point me to the right place since I'm blind apparently.


 
  So you went to the Brainbit website, scrolled half-way down the page, where the box labeled "Download Latest Driver Here", click on that box and were not offered the download for the "Unified Xonar Drivers" 1.61?


----------



## theShaz

I'm blind, I didn't scroll all the way to the bottom.. >.<
   
  So.. I'm guessing I'm going to need to wipe my windows clean off of the current drivers, and install this guy.
   
  I hear a lot of issues with the Audio Center like features not working and what have you..
   
  Also whats the Front Panel Switcher?
   
  So many questions to ask, so little time haha. I also wanted to ask about ASIO.. but I'll have to leave that for later.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I'm blind, I didn't scroll all the way to the bottom.. >.<
> 
> So.. I'm guessing I'm going to need to wipe my windows clean off of the current drivers, and install this guy.
> 
> ...


 
  Dont worry took me a good hour to find that link.
  Lol they sold out on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Acoustics-K-240-Studio-Headphones/dp/B0001ARCFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340333916&sr=8-1&keywords=AKG+K240
  its pretty much the same.
   
  and if you are in the EU, go to thomann.de


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I'm blind, I didn't scroll all the way to the bottom.. >.<
> So.. I'm guessing I'm going to need to wipe my windows clean off of the current drivers, and install this guy.
> I hear a lot of issues with the Audio Center like features not working and what have you..
> Also whats the Front Panel Switcher?
> So many questions to ask, so little time haha. I also wanted to ask about ASIO.. but I'll have to leave that for later.


 
  I usually install the Unified Xonar Drivers over the Asus drivers.
   
  Front Panel Switcher?
  There is the front panel headphone jack.
  In the Xonar control panel you can switchthe front panel from headphone to line-out.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I usually install the Unified Xonar Drivers over the Asus drivers.
> 
> Front Panel Switcher?
> There is the front panel headphone jack.
> In the Xonar control panel you can switchthe front panel from headphone to line-out.


 
  in the asus centre you can chose between back panel (directly out of the soundcard) to front panel jacks (like on-top or infront of your case) you cant do that in the C-media centre, but I prefer the Asus one anyway.


----------



## theShaz

I just bought the AKG, it came back on sale, for $88. Thanks for linking me 
   
  So should I just install the the Uni Xonar on top of the current ASUS drivers and thats it?
   
  What's this C-Media CP everyone is talking about?
   
  Also, if someone can possibly explain these options I highlighted in red:
   





   
  Much appreciated.
   
  EDIT: I said screw it and installed everything as default. Didn't play with any settings.
   
  Here's what I got so far..
   
  I no longer see sound activity in the main asus panel. And turning on Dolby Pro Logic IIx does not do anything, neither does changning the Wide/Narrow effects.
   
  Granted, I'm listening through Foobar and WASAPI, could WASAPI be the cause?
   




   
  EDIT2: Wow, it was WASAPI, that means before I used the Uni XONAR drivers WASAPI wasn't actually working. Because I was seeing activity and the Dolby effects worked.
   
  Would my assumptions be correct? Since WASAPI talks directly to the card without any interference.
   
  Holy ****.. listening to The Rat Cage in 24-bit 96kHz is like listening to the song for the first time.. apparently there were a whole bunch of instruments that I never heard before til today..


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I just bought the AKG, it came back on sale, for $88. Thanks for linking me
> 
> So should I just install the the Uni Xonar on top of the current ASUS drivers and thats it?
> 
> ...


 
  it depends on the WASAPI driver, thats what it is supposed to do, but sometimes it doesn't bypass ALL of the windows stuff.
   
  I installed the C-media with GX enabled, leave the rest as is.
  set windows out to 24bit/48kHz, set Foobar to resample to 48kHz, if you use ASIO (set that to 24bit)
  Turn off music mode, turn on hi-fi mode unless u want to use Virtual speaker. 
   
  the STX measures best at lower sample rates, you need 24bit for digital volume control. Don't set volume above 76%.
  and there is a bug with 24bit@44,1kHz


----------



## theShaz

Am I losing on anything by not going with the C-Media Panel?
   
  EDIT: You mentioned WASAPI driver, I am using the DLL that comes for Foobar. Are there any others?
   
  EDIT2: I guess WASAPI is not working correctly in my computer. And searching all over google has not helped me resolve it one bit. ASIO seems to be a pain in the ass to setup. If anyone here can chime in one an easy way to setup Bit-matched playback with this card, it would be awesome.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Am I losing on anything by not going with the C-Media Panel?
> 
> EDIT: You mentioned WASAPI driver, I am using the DLL that comes for Foobar. Are there any others?
> 
> EDIT2: I guess WASAPI is not working correctly in my computer. And searching all over google has not helped me resolve it one bit. ASIO seems to be a pain in the ass to setup. If anyone here can chime in one an easy way to setup Bit-matched playback with this card, it would be awesome.


 
  I always used WASAPI, and it bypasses the DirectShow stuff but is still visible in the xonar centre and affected by the windows playback device settings. 
   
  Asio skips the lot, direct comms to the sound card. It works in musicbee. 
   
  and nah, screw the cmedia panel, but as i understand it, you need to install it with GX in order to benefit from the latency upgrade, but you can still use the xonar centre anyway.


----------



## theShaz

Hmm, I guess that's just the way it works. What sucks is I'm sitting here waiting.. the Z-5500 looks like won't be here til Monday or maybe even Tuesday.Amazon says the AKG's will deliver on Tuesday so I have nothing to do til then lol.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Hmm, I guess that's just the way it works. What sucks is I'm sitting here waiting.. the Z-5500 looks like won't be here til Monday or maybe even Tuesday.Amazon says the AKG's will deliver on Tuesday so I have nothing to do til then lol.


 
  thats the worst, waiting. but for you its only a few days. for me its 3 weeks. so no sympathy from me


----------



## theShaz

Well don't forget that my H6 Board is shipping all the way from England. I don't think that sucker will be here for another 2-3 weeks. You know what that means.. I'm going to have to run the Z-5500's on digital until then.
   
  Someone somewhere mentioned a DSP that makes your headphones sound like stereo speakers.. I don't know if it was on head-fi or somewhere else, but I have been dying to know what it is. I forgot to bookmark the link and I'm seriously regretting that right now xD


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Well don't forget that my H6 Board is shipping all the way from England. I don't think that sucker will be here for another 2-3 weeks. You know what that means.. I'm going to have to run the Z-5500's on digital until then.
> 
> Someone somewhere mentioned a DSP that makes your headphones sound like stereo speakers.. I don't know if it was on head-fi or somewhere else, but I have been dying to know what it is. I forgot to bookmark the link and I'm seriously regretting that right now xD


 
  Dump question?
  Why would anyone want to make their headphones sound like "stereo speakers"?
  Technically, headphone are already "stereo speakers". just really small ones next to your ears.


----------



## theShaz

I don't like the In-Head sound of headphones. Everyone has their preferences.. I'll eventually find the DSP, I just thought it was mentioned here.
   
  Guess I was wrong lmao..


----------



## ti5002000

which headphone gain do you use with your sennheiser hd595?
   
  in my opnion the lowest setting is a little low for high volumes...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ti5002000 said:


> which headphone gain do you use with your sennheiser hd595?
> 
> in my opnion the lowest setting is a little low for high volumes...


 
  the one that works for you., if the lowest is too low, go medium
   
  Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I don't like the In-Head sound of headphones. Everyone has their preferences.. I'll eventually find the DSP, I just thought it was mentioned here.
> 
> Guess I was wrong lmao..


 
  well. dont use it normally, but Dolby Headphone, for movies and games


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Take some pictures  I may do it one day.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I don't like the In-Head sound of headphones. Everyone has their preferences.. I'll eventually find the DSP, I just thought it was mentioned here.
> 
> Guess I was wrong lmao..


 
  I believe Foobar has several add-ons for changing sound, check it out.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Asus just come out with the Phoebus, DGX & DSX sound cards.
> Asus has not announced other other cards.
> The ST is slightly better then the STX (some clock thing).
> XO upgrade?
> ...


 

 Speaking of the Republic Of Gamers™ XONAR® Phoebus™, Asus® has gone to a newer main chip than the AV100 (a C-Media® CMI8788 derivative) for this new one:  the C-Media® CMI8888DHT.  This one uses a Burr-Brown®/Texas instruments® PCM1796 DAC (vs. the STX' PCM1792); both cards pack the Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier.  The STX has a slight edge on cleanliness in terms of the wider S/N ratio (124 dB vs. the Phoebus'™ 118 dB), as of June 2012; the Phoebus™ may very well prove the faster card.
   
  As of 23 June 2012, Amazon.com has both XONARs® on special: the ROG™ Phoebus™ at $187.99, the Essence™ STX at $164.88 (both regularly at $199.99).


----------



## theShaz

Well here's one thing I don't like about the C-Media interface.. I think I might have to switch back to the old ASUS.
   





   
  There is no way to adjust the individual channels. The ASUS Panel gives me the ability to adjust the level per Channel, the C-Media panel does not seem to support that functionality. Kinda sucks because I really started to like this interface. It's better laid out than default. >.<
   
  EDIT: This is what I mean:


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Well here's one thing I don't like about the C-Media interface.. I think I might have to switch back to the old ASUS.
> 
> _snip_
> 
> ...


 
  Well I use the old asus. bust just installing the CMedia overcomes other issues. So I did that.  
   
  EDIT: did hifiic get back to you?


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Well I use the old asus. bust just installing the CMedia overcomes other issues. So I did that.
> 
> EDIT: did hifiic get back to you?


 

 Oh so you're running both the ASUS Panel and C-Media's. I see now. I'll keep playing with those drivers but you know all of this is just screwing around, real messing around starts when my equipment gets here, hopefully another day or two for the speakers... I know the AKG's will be here tomorrow. The H6 board is going to be one of those buy and forget and one day check the mail and see it there haha. I just don't see a package from the UK arriving in less than 3 weeks.
   
  Unfortunately hifiic has not responded to me. I assumed its the weekend and he's busy partying so maybe I'll hear from em today/tomorrow. If not, I'll send em another reminder.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Oh so you're running both the ASUS Panel and C-Media's. I see now. I'll keep playing with those drivers but you know all of this is just screwing around, real messing around starts when my equipment gets here, hopefully another day or two for the speakers... I know the AKG's will be here tomorrow. The H6 board is going to be one of those buy and forget and one day check the mail and see it there haha. I just don't see a package from the UK arriving in less than 3 weeks.
> 
> Unfortunately hifiic has not responded to me. I assumed its the weekend and he's busy partying so maybe I'll hear from em today/tomorrow. If not, I'll send em another reminder.


 
  thats too bad, at least if you had the opamps you could still mess with the board + AKGs, but seems your excited?


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> thats too bad, at least if you had the opamps you could still mess with the board + AKGs, but seems your excited?


 

 Man you bet I'm excited.. the improvement in sound from the Recon3D to the Essence so far has been unworldly.. which is why I'm so itching to get my equipment already. 
   
  I just sent Hifiic another message, I used one of his existing items this time rather than just sending him a direct message.
   
  Just checked Amazon, the AKG's are coming tomorrow and my *LME49860NA* OpAmps from Mouser are already here. I only bought 3 so at least I'll get to play with those haha.
   
  EDIT: Got a response from Hifiic, he's definitely partying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





			
				Hifiic said:
			
		

> Because it's the Dragon Boat Festival, I can give your the information tomorrow.
> Have a good day!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Man you bet I'm excited.. the improvement in sound from the Recon3D to the Essence so far has been unworldly.. which is why I'm so itching to get my equipment already.
> 
> I just sent Hifiic another message, I used one of his existing items this time rather than just sending him a direct message.
> 
> ...


 
  Party party party Vusa, in jo mother se ... lol "Die Antwoord" 
  I'm gonna party nicely this coming week, South Africa is number 3 on the list of top alcohol consuming countries per (capita) (if its the right word.) I think Ireland and Australia are the only ones that drink more. 
   
  Time to party like a rock star.
  Arg ex is outside... stalking me... cheating cow... Denons are good at blocking outside noise.


----------



## theShaz

Haha funny you say that, my buddy is from South Africa and all he does on facebook is post pictures of night clubs he frequents and the type of booze he downs...
   
  Not a bad life if you ask me. I might have to grab a ticket and check it out myself one of those days.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Haha funny you say that, my buddy is from South Africa and all he does on facebook is post pictures of night clubs he frequents and the type of booze he downs...
> 
> Not a bad life if you ask me. I might have to grab a ticket and check it out myself one of those days.


 
  Sounds about right, and the chicks are hot. 
  Many other interesting and dodgey things I can't post in public. Love/hate this place.


----------



## theShaz

Z-5500 arrived, and its 2am.. that tells you something. I've been listening to my entire music library since 6pm today.. well.. yesterday I guess. since I'm already in tomorrow.. today.. err. I need sleep.
   
  I know I'm only using Optical to get my sound.. but even with Logitech's DAC the sound is absolutely magnificent. I have already ran into the annoyance of having to switch between Prologic II, DDL, DTS and regular PCM... gollie too many choices  When I game I have to run PLII Movie, while when I listen to music I have to turn it to PLII Music.. Either way.. the sound is absolutely glorious.. the woofer will probably shatter my window if cranked all the way up.
   
  Why Dolby you ask? Well.. 5.1.. that's the only way this thing will do 5.1 via Optical. I have to wait for the H6 before I can enjoy the Analog yumminess. Where I won't have to keep switching modes every time I want to game.
   
  I have not played with OpAmps yet because Optical is not affected. But I'm eagerly waiting 'til I get to do so.
   
  I'm giving the z-5500 a 9.2/10.. its definitely uber ampy on the mids and highs, and I'm hoping I'll be able to remedy that with some OpAmp combos. We'll see. I am VERY excited


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Z-5500 arrived, and its 2am.. that tells you something. I've been listening to my entire music library since 6pm today.. well.. yesterday I guess. since I'm already in tomorrow.. today.. err. I need sleep.
> 
> I know I'm only using Optical to get my sound.. but even with Logitech's DAC the sound is absolutely magnificent. I have already ran into the annoyance of having to switch between Prologic II, DDL, DTS and regular PCM... gollie too many choices  When I game I have to run PLII Movie, while when I listen to music I have to turn it to PLII Music.. Either way.. the sound is absolutely glorious.. the woofer will probably shatter my window if cranked all the way up.
> 
> ...


 
  My friends (plural) have them. I give them a 7/10, they are good for what they are. but they aren't mind bending in any sense. I'm willing to bet a good 2.1ch will clobber them.
   
  My vastly cheaper sansui floor standers (ok this isn't fair, they were oddballs of note) clobbers them in all aspects.


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## theShaz

Well man just from my old speaker system to this one, the difference is night and day. I hope one day I'll be able to splurge on a full HT setup where i can pick my own AMP/DAC, speakers, woofer, etc. But for now, the Z-5500's will do. Especially when I live in apartment, the woofer in this thing is already overkill for me as I'll never be able to crank that some bitch to full force lol.
   
  For now, I'm going to be enjoying this crispness


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Well man just from my old speaker system to this one, the difference is night and day. I hope one day I'll be able to splurge on a full HT setup where i can pick my own AMP/DAC, speakers, woofer, etc. But for now, the Z-5500's will do. Especially when I live in apartment, the woofer in this thing is already overkill for me as I'll never be able to crank that some bitch to full force lol.
> 
> For now, I'm going to be enjoying this crispness


 
  Well personally I would have gone for KRK Rokit 6. But then again I wouldn't. Headphones for now. Until I make more money. Then Tannoy speakers + Vintage Pioneer SX-1980 (yeah right). Untill I can afford a Classe + B&W system. Lol, big dreams. 
   
  and I have an oddball pair of Sansui floor standers that way play out of there price range, and a 90s Onkyo amp,  weee
   
  OMG "Lana Del Rey" crazy.
   
  EDIT: IMHO upgrading incrementally is the best, discovering bargains, and big punching underdogs, and being surprised, and enjoying it, thats the best. Like my AKG K242HD, they really surprise me every time I put them on, and thats saying something, coming from a D7000. But with different music. The AKGs are demons on Knife Party's Rage Valley EP


----------



## theShaz

Hey WiR3D,
   
  What do I need to configure in my Xonar before plugging these AKG suckers. I read something about impedance level or something of that sort that if not set properly can damage equipment. Is that true, and if so, what precautions should I take.
   
  Thanks bud.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Hey WiR3D,
> 
> What do I need to configure in my Xonar before plugging these AKG suckers. I read something about impedance level or something of that sort that if not set properly can damage equipment. Is that true, and if so, what precautions should I take.
> 
> Thanks bud.


 
  Meh, the drivers may be low impedance, but they are balls far from sensitive. set the Gain to high (middle one) and the rest like I described:

 Windows settings (playback devices) 24bit/48kHz
 player settings (with good upsampler) resample to 48kHz
 Asus Center on 2ch, and turn on the HF button (bypasses other processing)
 wait for 200 hours as they burn in, and the pads soften.  it makes a difference.
 crap yourself when they finish burning in and the THS4032 opamps arrive


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> Anybody know if the STX works without using any nonfree software? I'm running Trisquel, a Ubuntu distribution without nonfree software and I'd rather not be forced to use nonfree software to use the card.


 
   
  It works fine using ALSA, but of course the Dolby technologies that are implemented in the C-Media proprietary Windows driver are not available at all. On the other hand, it is more stable than typical proprietary Windows drivers. It also has a couple of minor extra features (see image) compared to Windows.


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> player settings (with good upsampler) resample to 48kHz


 
   
  Currently using foobar, and I'm having this problem where the music plays about 1.5x faster. I have to hit stop, then hit play again for it to go back to normal. But I'm using WASAPI > Digital.
   
  What do you recommend as a decent Upsampler without having to switch players. I do have Winamp, but I don't really use it anymore.
   
  And.. 200 hours? Man.. I might as well by a USB DAC and hook my old laptop and leave them both in the closet to burn for a few weeks haha.. That's the only way I can see that happening in 8 days... Isn't that a bit extreme? 8 days of continuous playback to break em in.. But you know your stuff so I'm not going to argue


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## 331099

One user in the thread said that OPA637AUs don't work with this sound card. I would say otherwise, using two of them right now from Auzentech and they sound beyond fantastic.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Currently using foobar, and I'm having this problem where the music plays about 1.5x faster. I have to hit stop, then hit play again for it to go back to normal. But I'm using WASAPI > Digital.
> 
> What do you recommend as a decent Upsampler without having to switch players. I do have Winamp, but I don't really use it anymore.
> 
> And.. 200 hours? Man.. I might as well by a USB DAC and hook my old laptop and leave them both in the closet to burn for a few weeks haha.. That's the only way I can see that happening in 8 days... Isn't that a bit extreme? 8 days of continuous playback to break em in.. But you know your stuff so I'm not going to argue


 
  Err over digital skip the upsampling altogether,its more for the analogue outputs, but 24bit is still a must. 
  I use MusicBee, not foobar, and MusicBee uses the Bass library, which has a good one built in (IME) Hopefully someone else can answer you on that one.
   
  And yes, 200 hours... they are AKG's it takes forever. The bass tightens up first, the highs tame last.  I did it while listening, but if you wanna skip it, use a burn in application, there are a few (I think pink noise is the best?) 
   
  But you should listen to them a bit aswell, as the pads soften, it improves SQ, from a better seal (why does that look wrong?) etc.


----------



## zzxc

Hi guys,
   
  I've been using the audio-technica ATH-AD900 with a xonar essence STX for a few years, but they are finally falling apart, so I'm looking to buy some new headphones. Any recommendations for a budget to about 400 AUD? I was looking at the DT880 but read that the xonar essence STX may not be capable of driving them well (http://www.head-fi.org/t/569147/dt880s-250-ohms-with-a-xonar-essence-stx).
   
  I do a whole lot of gaming, but music is more important to me. My music listening crosses several genres, including prog metal, prog rock, acoustic guitar, female vocals, neoclassical, and such. 
   
)


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





zzxc said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been using the audio-technica ATH-AD900 with a xonar essence STX for a few years, but they are finally falling apart, so I'm looking to buy some new headphones. Any recommendations for a budget to about 400 AUD? I was looking at the DT880 but read that the xonar essence STX may not be capable of driving them well (http://www.head-fi.org/t/569147/dt880s-250-ohms-with-a-xonar-essence-stx).
> 
> ...


 
  I don't know how accurate that guys figures are. The Beyers seem a good match. But if you want some more fun, Buy a AKG K242HD, or K240mkII, thye are dirt cheap, and swap the opamps out with THS4032 (just in the I/V section) its a good match, and will have you blown away at the price, they outperform my D2000 in this setup (even when I give it an impedance decreasing adapter) by a fair amount. And the soundstage/imaging is great for gaming. 
   
  Save the rest of the money and put it towards a desktop tube amp, (The AKGs scale well) and that could give you more options to play with in terms of SS.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *zzxc* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Any recommendations for a budget to about 400 AUD? I was looking at the DT880 but read that the xonar essence STX may not be capable of driving them well (http://www.head-fi.org/t/569147/dt880s-250-ohms-with-a-xonar-essence-stx).


 
   
  I have both (the 250 Ω version of the DT880, with which I do not even use the highest gain setting) and it is not true that the built-in amplifier on the Xonar STX cannot drive them well, nor would it make sense based on specs and measurements.


----------



## zzxc

Thanks for the replies. I did a whole lot more reading, and finally ordered the DT880 / 250 when I saw it for 280 AUD at http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=67&products_id=20547


----------



## Linkin

Using *2xLME49720NA* + *LM6172IN *for one afternoon. I am liking this setup very much on my AD700's. It makes my pink floyd tracks sound a lot more lively, better detail. Best $30 I've spent in months.


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> Just ordered an STX, wish me luck.
> Say, do you need to power this card with a 4 pin Molex connector?


 
  jip


----------



## theShaz

I'm currently testing the AKG k240's with my Xonar and I'm noticing that I can push the volume all the way up to 100% and the headphones are moderately loud, loud enough for me to enjoy listening to a track but I wish they could go a bit louder. Is this normal? I'm currently running them with Normal impedance (0-60 ohms), the headphones have "55 ohms" written on them so I suppose that's correct. HF mode on, no Dolby, and audio maxed out from source.
   
  I have not received my THS4032's yet, so I haven't been able to test with a different OpAmp... I had to order them from somewhere else since the ebay seller "hifiic" seems to have partied a bit too hard and fell off the face of the planet.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> I'm currently testing the AKG k240's with my Xonar and I'm noticing that I can push the volume all the way up to 100% and the headphones are moderately loud, loud enough for me to enjoy listening to a track but I wish they could go a bit louder. Is this normal? I'm currently running them with Normal impedance (0-60 ohms), the headphones have "55 ohms" written on them so I suppose that's correct. HF mode on, no Dolby, and audio maxed out from source.
> 
> I have not received my THS4032's yet, so I haven't been able to test with a different OpAmp... I had to order them from somewhere else since the ebay seller "hifiic" seems to have partied a bit too hard and fell off the face of the planet.


 
  Which Xonar? I'm guessing STX or ST?
  Try the mid gain setting (64~300-Ohm)
   
  Did you turn off your on-board audio? in the bios?


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Which Xonar? I'm guessing STX or ST?
> Try the mid gain setting (64~300-Ohm)
> 
> Did you turn off your on-board audio? in the bios?


 

 The Xonar ST. I totally thought I had on board audio disabled from BIOS but I just checked and it wasn't so I already went ahead and did that. But it did not make any difference as far as the volume or clarity of sound.
   
  However, when I switched to 64-300 the sound just boomed, it become alive and kicking.. Sounds VERY nice at around 30%. I guess that did the trick. I was too scared to try changing the impedance earlier fearing I might ruin the headphones but I guess it's not so bad after all.
   
  I wonder if I should go ahead and try this LME OpAmp sitting in front of me. I might do that tonight after my conference.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> The Xonar ST. I totally thought I had on board audio disabled from BIOS but I just checked and it wasn't so I already went ahead and did that. But it did not make any difference as far as the volume or clarity of sound.
> 
> However, when I switched to 64-300 the sound just boomed, it become alive and kicking.. Sounds VERY nice at around 30%. I guess that did the trick. I was too scared to try changing the impedance earlier fearing I might ruin the headphones but I guess it's not so bad after all.
> 
> I wonder if I should go ahead and try this LME OpAmp sitting in front of me. I might do that tonight after my conference.


 
  Which LME op-amp(s) are you going to use?


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Which LME op-amp(s) are you going to use?


 

 I have 3x LME49860NA at the moment that I'm going to test with and 2x THS4032 coming on the way.


----------



## gcwebbyuk

I have 3 x LME49860NA with a pair of Grado SR80i phones and Audioengine A2 speakers.
   
  I am loving them so far, my previous op-amps were 3 x LME49720.
   
  However, I find playing tracks that haven't been well encoded - ie direct from sites like Deezer (with the HQ setting on) are very harsh through the headphones.
   
  Tracks encoded to Apple Lossless, or direct from CD sound really good.
   
  So far I am very happy


----------



## DraconiaN

Quote: 





gcwebbyuk said:


> I have 3 x LME49860NA with a pair of Grado SR80i phones and Audioengine A2 speakers.
> 
> I am loving them so far, my previous op-amps were 3 x LME49720.
> 
> ...


 

 I have had exactly that Setup, but was disappointed with the LME49860NA compared to the LME49720NA. Now i'd like to try the famous LME49990,
  as many PPL said it's better sounding than the LME49720NA Metalcap Version. My Cans are the Sennheiser HD 650.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





draconian said:


> I have had exactly that Setup, but was disappointed with the LME49860NA compared to the LME49720NA. Now i'd like to try the famous LME49990,
> as many PPL said it's better sounding than the LME49720NA Metalcap Version. My Cans are the Sennheiser HD 650.


 
  The LME49860NA and LME49720NA are the same op-amp, the LME49860NA just has a better voltage range.
  A seller (Frugalphile) on eBay sels pre-soldered LME49990 op-amps, $18 each, $1.99 shipping (from Canada).


----------



## germanium

In my experiments with this card I have not found differences in sound quality from using different programs. The jitter is determined by the hardware which is quite good & very low by even high end standards however I have found that the card is very responsive to hardware improvements such as direct coupling & power supply mods. I have not really experimented with opamps as yet as my results from power supply & direct coupling mods have been incredably good. If I were to experiment with opamps I would go with the LME49990 single channel opamp as my power supply mods are similar in nature to the recomended ones for that opamp by the manufacturer for that opamp, Just different type of caps.


----------



## whirlwind

Just bought me a new Xonar Essence STX....should be here in a week...it will bring my Grado 325is to life.
   
  What are the best drivers for win 7 64 bit
   
  I want a good solid set of drivers and they need to play nice with win 7 64 bit.
   
  Thanks for any suggestions


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> Just bought me a new Xonar Essence STX....should be here in a week...it will bring my Grado 325is to life.
> What are the best drivers for win 7 64 bit
> I want a good solid set of drivers and they need to play nice with win 7 64 bit.


 
  The website Brainbit has third party drives "Unified Xonar Drivers".


----------



## whirlwind

You using these with no problems?


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





writereviews said:


> Damn! I can't get it to work under GNU/Linux.
> http://i.imgbox.com/aaypithb.png
> http://i.imgbox.com/aagVvQQq.png
> 
> It's being detected, but no sound is coming out.


 
   
  Make sure that the mixer is configured correctly (analog output etc.), and that playback software is really using the STX, rather than onboard audio. With your current configuration, that would be card #1 (ALSA device "hw:1,0"). Alternatively, you could change the order of cards (it depends on the distribution how to do it exactly) so that the Xonar becomes card #0 (the default) and the onboard is card #1.


----------



## writereviews

Why end might ask civil again spoil.


----------



## sagatman

Quote: 





germanium said:


> In my experiments with this card I have not found differences in sound quality from using different programs. The jitter is determined by the hardware which is quite good & very low by even high end standards however I have found that the card is very responsive to hardware improvements such as direct coupling & power supply mods. I have not really experimented with opamps as yet as my results from power supply & direct coupling mods have been incredably good. If I were to experiment with opamps I would go with the LME49990 single channel opamp as my power supply mods are similar in nature to the recomended ones for that opamp by the manufacturer for that opamp, Just different type of caps.


 
  I followed Germanium's step to modify my ST. Although my soldering technique is crude, the sound improvement is astonishing.
  The sound immediately after mod was gorgeous and prosperous. After a couple of days it became even better and majestic.
  I'm now wondering how is it compared with essence ONE...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I've used 6 X 2uF 2PPMFX Multicap + 2 X 0.047uF RTX Multicap. Asus should have designed the card with the parallized decoupling caps in the analogue section.


----------



## Najemikon

.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> You using these with no problems?


 
  As far as my brain can remember, I've had no problems using the Xonar Unified Drivers.


----------



## bcschmerker4

As of 3 July 2012, I am testing the Unified XONAR® Driver, Version 1.61, by Brainbit, in DPC Low-Latency mode in my Asus® CM1630-06 (with EAH6850/2DIS/1GD5 video and XONARESSENCESTX/A audio) under Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001 (MultiProcessor Kernel 6.1.7601).  Version 1.61 uses a mod of a later C-Media® driver (viz., Release 1800) than is officially supported by ASUSTeK Computer (viz., Release 1794, in Driver WinRAR 7.12.8.1794) for DSP chips earlier than the CMI-8888DHT (in the ROG™ XONAR® Phoebus™).  Although I noticed no change on the playback side from the new driver, the UNi XONAR® Driver definitely shortens the tracking delay to a few milliseconds when recording from the Microphone Input.  (Brainbit claims similar improvement for the Auzentech® X-Meridian™ 7.1.)


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





sagatman said:


> I followed Germanium's step to modify my ST. Although my soldering technique is crude, the sound improvement is astonishing.
> The sound immediately after mod was gorgeous and prosperous. After a couple of days it became even better and majestic.
> I'm now wondering how is it compared with essence ONE...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad you like it. I figured that if somone were to try it they would love it.


----------



## Bodymeta

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> As far as my brain can remember, I've had no problems using the Xonar Unified Drivers.


 
   
  do i have to uninstall previous drivers to instal these?
   
  Also PurpleAngel, just for curiosity, did you use your dt990/250 on xonar audio center with high gain or extra high gain?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





bodymeta said:


> do i have to uninstall previous drivers to instal these?
> 
> Also PurpleAngel, just for curiosity, did you use your dt990/250 on xonar audio center with high gain or extra high gain?


 
  yes, and use DriverSweeper, and then go for it


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bodymeta said:


> Do I have to uninstall previous drivers to instal these?
> Also PurpleAngel, just for curiosity, did you use your dt990/250 on Xonar audio center with high gain or extra high gain?


 
  I usually just install the "Xonar Unified Drivers" over Asus's.
  Normally use the "High Gain 64~300 Ohm" with the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm.
  But right this second I'm trying "Extra high Gain 300~600 Ohm", music sound fine (BeeGees- Staying alive).


----------



## whirlwind

My Xonar control panel does not work at all W7 64 bit...any ideas....using latest drivers for Essence stx


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> My Xonar control panel does not work at all W7 64 bit...any ideas....using latest drivers for Essence STX


 
  Try the "Unified Xonar Drivers" at Brainbit.


----------



## whirlwind

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Try the "Unified Xonar Drivers" at Brainbit.


 
  hmmm....finally got it working....had a heck of a time getting drivers to install....working great now....hope it stays that way.
   
  If it doe not I will try the drivers you suggest...thanks.


----------



## whirlwind

Update...Very happily jamming with my Essence Stx and Grados......


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> hmmm....finally got it working....had a heck of a time getting drivers to install....working great now....hope it stays that way.
> 
> If it doe not I will try the drivers you suggest...thanks.


 
  Sometimes I've had some minor problems installing drivers for the Xonar, but usually I resolve the problem in little time.


----------



## whirlwind

Three installs for me and I swear that I did it the same all three times.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





whirlwind said:


> Three installs for me and I swear that I did it the same all three times.


 
  driver sweeper, and uni drivers, GG


----------



## Ayim

Hey,

 I've been reading up about this card the past few days,

http://www.head-fi.org/t/609736/dac-and-amp-or-xonar-stx

 just got done reading that topic about the hiss problem.

 Couple of questions about the card in general though:

 Is hiss problem noticable on haedphones with alot of ohm rating or so, such as HD650 etc or rather, for the HD650 does anyone notice it? lol 

 is the amp for the phones neutral like comparable to something like say the O2 amp (if that is neutral that is) aka I don't want to hype certain parts I'd rather have just increase the signal from the phones

 Anyway, this thing looks perfect for what I want to do besides the hiss problem but I don't think it's that big of an issue.

 Also, is there any difference between ST and STX? Does the ST fix the hiss or anything?

 And, I don't quite get what op-amps are, are they just for hyping up certain parts or do they generally make the hole quality level of amplication better or something?

 FWIW I'm getting this for mixing with phones inside a DAW and Ill prob connect two monitors with RCAs so I want accuracy the most, this thing is perfect pricerange for me atm lol and has all the features I need + extra


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ayim said:


> Hey,
> 
> I've been reading up about this card the past few days,
> 
> ...


----------



## olegausany

I have STX with LME49860 opamps in I/V section and using UniXonar 1.41, never heard any hiss neither with D7000 nor with currently for sale HD650 since they lack deep bass most easily noticeable with classical and jazz but also affecting other music styles. By the way i tried HD650 with 5 different setups at the recent NYC meet and only Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 was perfect match for them while others had the same problem


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> I have STX with LME49860 opamps in I/V section and using UniXonar 1.41, never heard any hiss neither with D7000 nor with currently for sale HD650 since they lack deep bass most easily noticeable with classical and jazz but also affecting other music styles. By the way i tried HD650 with 5 different setups at the recent NYC meet and only Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 was perfect match for them while others had the same problem


 
  try the THS4032 opamps, and build an impedance adapter, the latter having the greater effect. If I can do it, anyone can. Or try find an ebay electronics guy to do it.


----------



## Ayim

Thanks! Especially for that latency trick

 Should I get an adapter too? 

 the cpu thing: I currently use onboard, it won't use alot more cpu then that? I might upgrade my cpu to get more cores while i'm at it lol

 I don't have the 650s, but I'm planning on getting a pair around their price and since I've used sennheiser in the past thought I'd get them again lol

 Glad I got this card thing worked out though!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ayim said:


> Thanks! Especially for that latency trick
> 
> Should I get an adapter too?
> 
> ...


 
  Personally I would get the AKG K242hd or AKG k240mkii, they are more analytical, and could be more useful for your needs, and a lot cheaper, but don't underestimate their sound quality, its quite frightening depending what you plug them into. 
   
  onboard CPU?!?! Oh wait you mean onboard soundcard, it will, it can chow a fair amount, especially with apps like frooty loops running. But a quad core should be fine. 
   
  No you won't need an impedance adapter, the senns are 600ohm, the output impedance on the STX is 10 ohm that 1:60 ratio, thats fine, the target ratio is above 1:25 and minimum 1:8. So for the denons which are 25ohm its normal ratio is 1:2.5 which is horrid. ANd don't worry about the AKGs, they are special, not really affected by it.


----------



## Dionysus

I just purchased 3 of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/190682726763?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1089wt_922

am assuming I don't need anything other than poping out the default opamps and poping these in correct?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dionysus said:


> I just purchased 3 of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/190682726763?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1089wt_922
> am assuming I don't need anything other than poping out the default opamps and poping these in correct?


 
  Bought the correct op-amps from a well liked seller.
  Find someway to ground yourself before removing the STX, like stay off carpets and touch your computer case for a few seconds.
  So you need a small Philipshead screwdriver to remove the 4 screws holding the plate on.
  And a really small flathead screwdriver to slowly and carefully pop out the 3 stock op-amps.
  When you first stall the LME49990 adapter (slowly) make sure a pins are in their holes.
  Once they are mostly down and your sure no pins are bent, you can push a little hard to make sure they are down all the way.
  Chances are they will only be a few millimetter from the cover (shielding plate), after the cover is put back on.
  Then enjoy.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





dionysus said:


> I just purchased 3 of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/190682726763?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1089wt_922
> am assuming I don't need anything other than poping out the default opamps and poping these in correct?


 
  jip, and line them up correctly (the half moon on the pcb must match the direction the half moon on the stock chips faces)


----------



## Dionysus

Thx can't wait to hear what these sound like it will be first time I change the sound on this card.


----------



## ryssen

Does the Xonar have the "juice" to run the  http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/Index/burson.php  ?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ryssen said:


> Does the Xonar have the "juice" to run the  http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/Index/burson.php  ?


 
  I'm not sure which burson that is, but the first gen burson opamps were made by AudioGD, it was their Earth OPA, and that it can. But they new stuff needs more power, someone has done it. search for the FrankenSTX and it will popup on the OCN forums somewhere, maybe someone with a bit more knowledge can help you


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have seen people use the Bursons on the STX cards but I have not personally did the testing myself.  I have tried the Audio-GD line up of discrete opamps on the STX and the card has enough power to run them.
   
  Hope that helps.
   
  A note on opamp installation, the chips and sockets are both marked to denote Pin 1, if you accidentally install the backwards and apply power they will fry and are garbage after that.  So, make sure 100% that you have the right orientation before you apply power.


----------



## ryssen

Yes that helps,thanks.


----------



## ROBSCIX

IIRC, all the AudioGD opamps work in both I/V and buffer positions BUT the Moon opamp does NOT work in the I/V.  It has been along time since I tested those, so if you are considering using those opamps, let me know and I will verify which position it works in.
   
  These opamps provide a much more "analog" sound if you find the ST/STX a bit edgy given whatever headphones or speakers you are using.  Quite a few people discussed and used them when the card first came out but it was only discussed in PM never in the open forums.
  Overall the results were excellent.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





robscix said:


> IIRC, all the AudioGD opamps work in both I/V and buffer positions BUT the Moon opamp does NOT work in the I/V.  It has been along time since I tested those, so if you are considering using those opamps, let me know and I will verify which position it works in.
> 
> These opamps provide a much more "analog" sound if you find the ST/STX a bit edgy given whatever headphones or speakers you are using.  Quite a few people discussed and used them when the card first came out but it was only discussed in PM never in the open forums.
> Overall the results were excellent.


 

 I currently have LME49860 and i really enjoying my D7000 with them but still thinking upgrading to something newer is worth and since LME49990 are so expensive so i'm thinking that Audio-GD opamps should bring more value for themoney so my question is which of the three opamps will give me neutral natural lifelike sound with deep bass classical and jazz demands. I know i will need 2 dual opamps for I/V section. Which one is better to put into buffer sections if i decide to add tube or hybrid amp connected to RCA out?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





robscix said:


> A note on opamp installation, the chips and sockets are both marked to denote Pin 1, if you accidentally install the backwards and apply power they will fry and are garbage after that.  So, make sure 100% that you have the right orientation before you apply power.


 
  Lies, I have a couple of times applied power the wrong way to some of my OPA827 (atleast I think it was those) and they still work fine.  but it was for less then a minute on each occasion. 
   
  Not that I would say its ok to do it.
   
  from what I know of the LME49860 its actually a flawed chip, the LME49990 is not, also consider the THS4032, I have had good success with them. 
   
  But the best you can do for the denons is just put in neutral opamps AND BUILD AN IMPEDANCE ADAPTER! it makes a much more significant difference to the bass response and overall clarity then any opamp. (If you are powering it from the STX.) And I mean Faux impedance decreasing adapter. check in my sig.


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Been reading through the thread and I can't make a decision, can anybody give a good starting recommendation for I/V and Buffer on the STX?
   
  I use the ATH-M50s. I want some good bass, sound stage, positioning, overall maybe just a good balance of everything.
   
  Thanks guys.
   
  Preferably in DIP8 format and not too expensive, I noticed that something like the LME49990 costs $18 on ebay for a pair of 2.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





secrtagentman said:


> Been reading through the thread and I can't make a decision, can anybody give a good starting recommendation for I/V and Buffer on the STX?
> 
> I use the ATH-M50s. I want some good bass, sound stage, positioning, overall maybe just a good balance of everything.
> 
> ...


 
  Try:
  THS4032 (have tried, good all rounder)
  LME49990, OPA1612, AD8599 (havent tried)
   
  Avoid:
  LT1057, OPA827, 2xLME49710HA (have tried, don't bother)
  AD797(sounds amazing, a bit much in the treble, and unstable, so will probably kick the bucket after a year or so.)
   
  I have tried most of the favourites


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





secrtagentman said:


> Been reading through the thread and I can't make a decision, can anybody give a good starting recommendation for I/V and Buffer on the STX?
> 
> I use the ATH-M50s. I want some good bass, sound stage, positioning, overall maybe just a good balance of everything.
> 
> ...


 
  LME49720NA (DIP-8) or LME49860NA (DIP-8)
  Try asking in "The op-amp thread"


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Try:
> THS4032 (have tried, good all rounder)
> LME49990, OPA1612, AD8599 (havent tried)
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for the recommendations and what to avoid


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> LME49720NA (DIP-8) or LME49860NA (DIP-8)
> Try asking in "The op-amp thread"


 
  Should I just get 1 of the above, or 3 of them and replace all 3 op-amps?
   
  What about for the buffer?


----------



## Dionysus

Received the 3 LME49990 opamps today installed them and all went well, very happy.
  These are Very revealing vs the default ones and also extremely detailed enjoying them listening to Clockwork Angels and Oceania.
  Thx guys for the help.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





secrtagentman said:


> Should I just get 1 of the above, or 3 of them and replace all 3 op-amps?
> 
> What about for the buffer?


 
  Ignore the buffer if your using the headphone port, only replace the I/V section opamps. 
   
  Make sure they are duals, not single channel. 
  In the case of the LME49990 you would need 2x of them soldered to a single board. 
  The LME49860 is a better LME49720 but they are still flawed.


----------



## Rai1gun

Hey guys, first post---long time lurker.
   
  I installed my new STX yesterday, and after wrestling with configuration and output options and formats, settled in to auditioning and testing with 320 kbps MP3s and some FLAC, followed by some Battlefield 3 Logitech Z5500 5.1 surround gaming.
   
  Some quick observations:

 Although everything was eventually possible, the trial and error / juggling between 2 channel analog out for music, and 6 channel PCM / DD Live digital out for 5.1 sources was a somewhat frustrating process. Thanks to everyone in this thread for contributing their experiences which surely made things easier.
 The analog out of the STX is unquestionably better than the PCM /DAC decoding on the Z5500. No surprise there. Punchier, wider soundstage, with better imaging and depth. However, it is a reminder of the limitations of the mediocre drivers in the Z5500s.
 The sound from the headphone out (set to low gain <64 ohm) over my DT990 32ohm cans is lively and spacious, but possibly too bright and edgy. Maybe an op-amp upgrade would help?
 Managing volume levels and output format between all of the above can be a nail-biting experience. It is not terribly difficult to switch back to headphones having left the volume in the Xonar control panel too high---potentially damaging your gear. Use caution when getting accustomed to the CP.
   
  Can someone suggest an op-amp that may suit my DT990/32 better? Delivering a warmer, less fatiguing tone?
   
  Can anyone comment on gaming with the unified driver as opposed to the ASUS?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> Hey guys, first post---long time lurker.
> 
> I installed my new STX yesterday, and after wrestling with configuration and output options and formats, settled in to auditioning and testing with 320 kbps MP3s and some FLAC, followed by some Battlefield 3 Logitech Z5500 5.1 surround gaming.
> 
> ...


 
  I myself have not really seen any negative feedback on the "Unified Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit. I use them myself.
  LME49990 ($60) seems to be well liked op-amps for the STX.


----------



## Rai1gun

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I myself have not really seen any negative feedback on the "Unified Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit. I use them myself.
> LME49990 ($60) seems to be well liked op-amps for the STX.


 
   
  Would that be a plug and play replacement? No soldering or adapters required?


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Ignore the buffer if your using the headphone port, only replace the I/V section opamps.
> 
> Make sure they are duals, not single channel.
> In the case of the LME49990 you would need 2x of them soldered to a single board.
> The LME49860 is a better LME49720 but they are still flawed.


 
  I'll only be using headphones and a mic, so just 2x for the I/V then correct?
   
  Also do you know if the Zalman ZM-1 clip on mic will connect to the STX or will I need to connect that to the motherboard?


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Thanks to all you guys for all the suggestions, now that I have some choices I guess I'll have to get to ordering.


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> Would that be a plug and play replacement? No soldering or adapters required?


 
  The LME49990 needs to be soldered to a DIP 8 adapter for the STX, some people (frugalphile) on Ebay sell dual and mono LME49990s already soldered onto a DIP8 adapter which will work with the STX.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I myself have not really seen any negative feedback on the "Unified Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit. I use them myself.
> LME49990 ($60) seems to be well liked op-amps for the STX.


 

 Upon reading the datasheet on the LME49990MA from National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments®, I found that this single op amp is engineered for surface mounting, whereas the STX requires dual op amps (e.g., the LME49720NA and LME49860NA previously mentioned) in a JEDEC 8-pin DIP.  What adapter boards are available, in the event that I decide to test dual LME49990MA's in the Buffer position?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> Upon reading the datasheet on the LME49990MA from National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments®, I found that this single op amp is engineered for surface mounting, whereas the STX requires dual op amps (e.g., the LME49720NA and LME49860NA previously mentioned) in a JEDEC 8-pin DIP.  What adapter boards are available, in the event that I decide to test dual LME49990MA's in the Buffer position?


 
  You order the pre-soldered dual LME49990 (SOIC) op-amps per adapter from this guy for $17.99 each, plus $2 for shipping for each.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190682726763?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6593816b
   
  I thought about soldering my own LME49990 adapter(s), ordered all the pieces and equipment (soldering iron, solder)
  Would have been cheaper just to spent $60 for 3 pieces (6 op-amps) pre-soldered.
  And I never got around to soldering anything cause I could not find a magnifying glass/stand for a reasonable price.
  Those SOIC op-amps are small and I have zero soldering experience.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> Hey guys, first post---long time lurker.
> 
> I installed my new STX yesterday, and after wrestling with configuration and output options and formats, settled in to auditioning and testing with 320 kbps MP3s and some FLAC, followed by some Battlefield 3 Logitech Z5500 5.1 surround gaming.
> 
> ...


 
  Uni drivers work much better, also with the latest ones ASIO works for me, and with musicbee if you use ASIO it bypasses ALL the system control, even volume and speaker configuration. which means no switching each time, which is really sweet. And the stock opamps are harsh and have bass bloat, the LME49990 are a good choice apparently, they are on my list, another one is the THS4032.
   
  Quote: 





secrtagentman said:


> I'll only be using headphones and a mic, so just 2x for the I/V then correct?
> 
> Also do you know if the Zalman ZM-1 clip on mic will connect to the STX or will I need to connect that to the motherboard?


 
  STX has a mic port  
  And yes only 2 adapters. 
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> You order the pre-soldered dual LME49990 (SOIC) op-amps per adapter from this guy for $17.99 each, plus $2 for shipping for each.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190682726763?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6593816b
> 
> I thought about soldering my own LME49990 adapter(s), ordered all the pieces and equipment (soldering iron, solder)
> ...


 
  Start with cables first, and adapters  thats where I started, tricky enough and easy enough. also easy to fix.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Rai1gun* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The sound from the headphone out (set to low gain <64 ohm) over my DT990 32ohm cans is lively and spacious, but possibly too bright and edgy. Maybe an op-amp upgrade would help?


 
   
  If you want to reduce the treble, I recommend using equalization, or getting a headphone with less treble (the DT990 is one of the brighter ones) like the HD650. You could also replace the STX with something that has more rolled off treble (e.g. the E17, which also features tone controls), although this is not the best approach to solving the problem. "Upgrading" the op amps will not fix the treble, it is a myth that doing so will change the tonal balance in any useful way.


----------



## Rai1gun

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> If you want to reduce the treble, I recommend using equalization, or getting a headphone with less treble (the DT990 is one of the brighter ones) like the HD650. You could also replace the STX with something that has more rolled off treble (e.g. the E17, which also features tone controls), although this is not the best approach to solving the problem. "Upgrading" the op amps will not fix the treble, it is a myth that doing so will change the tonal balance in any useful way.


 
   
  I don't believe the DT990s are the problem, although I agree they are brighter than most in that price range. The headphone amp sound from the STX is what I'd call 'harsh' rather than bright. Although I can't do an A/B test, I remember the sound (headphone output) from my Audigy 2 ZS Platinum being better than the STX---at least not as 'harsh'.  I don't know the first thing about op-amps, but am getting the impression that what comes stock on the STX is of average quality, and most benefit from an upgrade.
   
  Right now, I'm not thrilled with what I'm hearing on my DT990's (which is the main reason I upgraded to the STX), and feel a bit foolish in that the STX is overkill for listening to music on the Z5500's.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> I don't believe the DT990s are the problem, although I agree they are brighter than most in that price range. The headphone amp sound from the STX is what I'd call 'harsh' rather than bright. Although I can't do an A/B test, I remember the sound (headphone output) from my Audigy 2 ZS Platinum being better than the STX---at least not as 'harsh'.  I don't know the first thing about op-amps, but am getting the impression that what comes stock on the STX is of average quality, and most benefit from an upgrade.
> 
> Right now, I'm not thrilled with what I'm hearing on my DT990's (which is the main reason I upgraded to the STX), and feel a bit foolish in that the STX is overkill for listening to music on the Z5500's.


 

 In November 20010 i tried DT990 with Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1 with stock opamp and didn't like what I heard cause they sounded too bright, sometimes harsh and Foobar's built-in EQ didn't help so i sold mine. Have no idea if Graphic Equalizer plug-in was available at that time but you can try one now and see if it helps


----------



## Rai1gun

I've found that by setting the gain setting for the headphone output to medium (64-250), and leaving the playback volume levels in the mixer at the default '76' works MUCH MUCH better on my DT990 32's. I am much more impressed with the SQ now. MUCH more controlled and elegant, but still punchy, lively and defined. Upgrading op-amps seems more optional now, and not so much a requirement. Good.
   
  I had the gain set to low at <64, which made sense to me (32 ohm cans), and had maxed out the Xonar mixer settings (out of habit in the Windows volume CP or any other player software, controlling volume always at the amp) and it was a disaster compared to the revised setting above.
   
  I'll also add that I rolled back to the 3/2011 (1794) Asus drivers, off of the Unified drivers. I was having a problem where switching betwen headphone output and '2 speakers' analog out (to my 5500's) was NOT working. It refused to turn off the headphones, and actually made the headphone output louder when I set the analog out to '2 speakers'. Weird. And scary enough to have me worrying about blowing out my DT990's.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> I've found that by setting the gain setting for the headphone output to medium (64-250), and leaving the playback volume levels in the mixer at the default '76' works MUCH MUCH better on my DT990 32's. I am much more impressed with the SQ now. MUCH more controlled and elegant, but still punchy, lively and defined. Upgrading op-amps seems more optional now, and not so much a requirement. Good.
> 
> I had the gain set to low at <64, which made sense to me (32 ohm cans), and had maxed out the Xonar mixer settings (out of habit in the Windows volume CP or any other player software, controlling volume always at the amp) and it was a disaster compared to the revised setting above.
> 
> I'll also add that I rolled back to the 3/2011 (1794) Asus drivers, off of the Unified drivers. I was having a problem where switching betwen headphone output and '2 speakers' analog out (to my 5500's) was NOT working. It refused to turn off the headphones, and actually made the headphone output louder when I set the analog out to '2 speakers'. Weird. And scary enough to have me worrying about blowing out my DT990's.


 
  also resample to 48kHz and set windows or ASIO to 24bit output, it will just pad 16bits with extra 0's, so you don't lose fidelity with digital volume control.
  44.1kHz/24bit has a bug. 
   
  The extra gain is probably just driving your cans better. 
   
  still say the stock opamps have bass bloat and are harsh.


----------



## WiR3D

I broke something....
   
  sound was fine, then crackle and no sound in right channel, burning smell. 
  opened up changed opamps in IV section. still no sound in right channel. and its not my headphones, they are fine. Thank god.
   
  I may add I was running at about 100% volume on max gain.... I was watching a movie that had low volume level. argfuuuuuuuuu@#$%^
   
  I was using THS4032, swapped for another pair. And I was using my impedance adapter. It chows almost 1W of power last time I did my maths,


----------



## stv014

Does the line output work ? Maybe it is the TPA6120 that failed.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> I've found that by setting the gain setting for the headphone output to medium (64-250), and leaving the playback volume levels in the mixer at the default '76' works MUCH MUCH better on my DT990 32's. I am much more impressed with the SQ now. MUCH more controlled and elegant, but still punchy, lively and defined.


 
   
  The gain setting only affects the volume (both are digital). However, using higher than the default playback level of 76 in the mixer may enable dynamic compression/limiting in the Windows driver; I did not verify this, but the full scale output can indeed be reached already at 76 and the main volume maxed out.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The gain setting only affects the volume (both are digital). However, using higher than the default playback level of 76 in the mixer may enable dynamic compression/limiting in the Windows driver; I did not verify this, but the full scale output can indeed be reached already at 76 and the main volume maxed out.


 
  soo what if i put it on max gain at 100% volume? 
   
  Thats 31.5% more volume then from 76%, does it mean 31.5% over the maximum specifications? mama mia.  
   
  Going to try the line out soon, will post back.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Thats 31.5% more volume then from 76%, does it mean 31.5% over the maximum specifications? mama mia.


 
   
  I tested it, and the normal maximum output level is indeed reached at the default 76% left/right settings, with "wave" and the master volume at 100%. If the left/right controls are also increased to 100%, that boosts the level by 12 dB (4x gain), but dynamic compression in the C-Media Windows driver will keep the actual output level within the range of the selected output and gain (line: 2.16 Vrms, HP 64Ω: 0.88 Vrms, HP 300Ω: 3.5 Vrms, HP 600Ω: 7 Vrms), and prevent clipping.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I tested it, and the normal maximum output level is indeed reached at the default 76% left/right settings, with "wave" and the master volume at 100%. If the left/right controls are also increased to 100%, that boosts the level by 12 dB (4x gain), but dynamic compression in the C-Media Windows driver will keep the actual output level within the range of the selected output and gain (line: 2.16 Vrms, HP 64Ω: 0.88 Vrms, HP 300Ω: 3.5 Vrms, HP 600Ω: 7 Vrms), and prevent clipping.


 
  just to confirm, so then dynamic limiting prevents any possible damage from running over 76%? And this applies at both Line out and HP out?
   
  As for my STX, it was indeed the TI HP amp that blew, the line out is fine. Made me finally set up my speakers. My el cheapo bargain Sansui's are blasting some serious clarity for $130. 
   
  Anyway that will do for now until I reprint the receipt and have it replaced, do love 3 year warranty.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> just to confirm, so then dynamic limiting prevents any possible damage from running over 76%? And this applies at both Line out and HP out?


 
   
  The limiting works the same way on all outputs. Master=100/Wave=100/Left,Right=76 is already the maximum volume, if Left/Right are also increased to 100, then a digital gain of +12 dB is applied, but the dynamic compression will limit the signal to the normal maximum level.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The limiting works the same way on all outputs. Master=100/Wave=100/Left,Right=76 is already the maximum volume, if Left/Right are also increased to 100, then a digital gain of +12 dB is applied, but the dynamic compression will limit the signal to the normal maximum level.


 
  Thanks, even so dynamic compression is undesirable, it can really hamper a build up in a song, unless ofcourse you are after normalisation.


----------



## germanium

The compression used s a very poor example as recovery of gain is not fast enough in other words it clamps fast but releases slow making the sound very disconserting to listen to. Yes, it accomplishes it's purpose which is to prevent clipping  which reduces the risk of damage to your speakers tweeters but the disconcerting soud also ecourages you to turn it down. The reality is though that all you have to turn down is the balance controls, not the actual volume to return things to normalcy.


----------



## Rai1gun

Quote: 





germanium said:


> The compression used s a very poor example as recovery of gain is not fast enough in other words it clamps fast but releases slow making the sound very disconserting to listen to. Yes, it accomplishes it's purpose which is to prevent clipping  which reduces the risk of damage to your speakers tweeters but the disconcerting soud also ecourages you to turn it down. The reality is though that all you have to turn down is the balance controls, not the actual volume to return things to normalcy.


 
  I've noticed that applying any boost in the EQ trips this compression as well, and you have to drop the L/R 76 down to compensate. I don't believe I've ever experienced this sort of behavior before with and EQ---at least not to an noticeable extent.
   
  Another question:  Is there a way to tweak the discrete multi-channel output while using DD Live? My rear surrounds seem fairly weak, particularly in 5.1 game audio. So far, DD Live is either 'on' or 'off', and any adjustments (other than EQ) have to be done with the playback decoder / amp. DD Live playback is pretty low in volume in general, especially compared to analog out to the same decoder / amp (Logitech Z5500).


----------



## Calcifar

I checked many guides and opinions by now but am unable to find the exact info which I need.

 Now, I got myself the ATH A700 and a xonar DX. I wasnt too happy with the A700 though, the pleather and over- size ruined it for me, the sound was great though.

 I am now planning on ordering a DT880 premium 250 ohm from Amazon, after returning the A700.
 I red that the Xonar DX wont have enough juice to drive the DT880 well enough so Im looking at alternatives in form of other sound cards.

 Took a look at the Xonar ST on amazon but there are so many of them for different prices, I am very uncertain which one actually would be the right one for driving 250 ohm  with doby 5.1 and pci-e ? There are some for 130 pounds and other up to 270, Im quite confused here. Would the STX 2 channel make sense ?

 Here my search results :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=xonar+st&x=0&y=0









 Would be amazing if someone could clear this up for me and point me to the right pick !


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





calcifar said:


> Would the STX 2 channel make sense ?


 
   
  Yes. You obviously do not need multichannel outputs (Xonar ST + H6) for driving headphones. You may also just keep the Xonar DX and get an amplifier, for example the EHP-O2 for £99.99 + shipping. If you do not need high volume and do not listen to music with a wide dynamic range like classical, then even the Xonar DX alone could be OK (I tried this combination), other than having too high output impedance.


----------



## Calcifar

So, what exactly does the " Channel version "do" ?
   
  I have no clue about the advantages of 2 Channels towards headphones and games and music.
   
  Also, ik returned the Dx already, I really want to buy the STX or ST but just am having trouble in finding the right one for my needs.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





calcifar said:


> So, what exactly does the " Channel version "do" ?
> 
> I have no clue about the advantages of 2 Channels towards headphones and games and music.
> 
> Also, ik returned the DX already, I really want to buy the STX or ST but just am having trouble in finding the right one for my needs.


 
  The 2 channel is the analog speaker output on the Essence ST (& STX) sound card.
  But the Essence can provide Dolby Headphone surround sound, from a 7.1 (8-channel) source.
  like 7.1 gaming surround sound, or a Blu-ray movie with 7.1 channels of audio.
  The Essence ST(X) can also output 5.1, thru the S/PDIF optical/coaxial output of the Essence.
   
  I would say between the ST & STX, get whatever is cheaper.


----------



## stv014

The Xonar ST/STX card by itself has 2 channel analog outputs (line (RCA) and headphone (1/4" TRS)), but it can also output multichannel digital audio via S/PDIF. For the ST only, there is a Xonar H6 expansion card that adds 6 more analog RCA line output channels. You do not need it for headphone listening, however, so the first two ~*£*130 options should be fine if they are from a reliable seller. The main difference between the ST and the STX is that the former has a PCI interface, while the latter is PCIe, and needs additional power from a 4-pin molex connector. Get the one that suits your motherboard better (if you do not have any free slots of one type, then the choice is simple).


----------



## Calcifar

Guys, thank you so much for this help, Im so glad I can finally make a buying decision after browsing these forums for days.
   
  I'll probably buy the STX 2 channel for 130 pounds from Amazon.
   
   
  Big thank you.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Having run into operability problems with Version 1.61 (spec., known issues with input and output selection), I am now stable on the Unified XONAR® Driver, Version 1.53, by Brainbit.  Apparently Version 1.61 is meant to provide DPC low-latency support for the ROG™ XONAR® Phoebus™, in addition to other models, and the side effect of the C-Media® 1800 core driver was a regression in terms of the Essence™ ST and STX; see /2010/07/09/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/ at Brainbit.WordPress.com for details.


----------



## Biscuitz

Question!

 I just bought the Xonar STX. I've installed it, and I have to say, I'm quite disappointed in the sound signature. I'm using Grado SR225i's atm, but I ordered a new soundcard because I am stepping up to the RS1i's. I am a Grado guy for sure, so you know I like my treble hot and my highs crips.

 My complaints are: The highs seem too dark for my tastes, and the entire sound is too "smooth".  It just doesn't sound crisp to me. Nothing has punch. It's not just smooth, but a bit blurry or smeary.

 My question is: What opamps should I look into? I'm not looking for a great "balanced" sound as you probably have guessed by now. I am looking for tight bass, crisp quick mids, and bright highs. I am looking for energy. Also, I don't want a removed soundstage - heck, that's why I like Grados in the first place, their intimate soundstage. The RS1i does just this while creating a very breathable, airy sound (my impressions from a few hours of auditioning).
   
  Also know that I have ZERO experience with opamps. This is my first soundcard ever. I'd need some direction towards a guide on how to change opamps.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Question!
> 
> I just bought the Xonar STX. I've installed it, and I have to say, I'm quite disappointed in the sound signature. I'm using Grado SR225i's atm, but I ordered a new soundcard because I am stepping up to the RS1i's. I am a Grado guy for sure, so you know I like my treble hot and my highs crips.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Op-amps will change the sound very slightly, its all in details, you can't expect big changes. So if you don't like it now, you might wanna go for a different DAC. Or you could just use an EQ in your music player.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Question!
> 
> I just bought the Xonar STX. I've installed it, and I have to say, I'm quite disappointed in the sound signature. I'm using Grado SR225i's atm, but I ordered a new sound card because I am stepping up to the RS1i's. I am a Grado guy for sure, so you know I like my treble hot and my highs crips.
> 
> ...


 
  The LME49990 op-amps seem to get good feedback, they cost $60 for three of them off eBay, seller "frugalphile".
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190682726763?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6593816b
   
  The Essence STX's headphone jack has an impedance of 10-Ohm, which fine headphones that are 80-Ohms or higher.
  Your Grado SR225I are only 32-Ohm. so a headphone amplifier impedance of 4-Ohms or lower would be preferred.
   
  You can also try third party drivers for the STX, Brainbit has the "Unified Xonar Drivers".
   
  Did you disable your motherboard's on-board audio, in the bios?
   
  What are your current settings in the Xonar control panel.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Question!
> 
> I just bought the Xonar STX. I've installed it, and I have to say, I'm quite disappointed in the sound signature. I'm using Grado SR225i's atm, but I ordered a new soundcard because I am stepping up to the RS1i's. I am a Grado guy for sure, so you know I like my treble hot and my highs crips.
> 
> ...


 
  Look at purple angels comment, also smooth.... ah no, its actually fairly harsh IME, but the bass is bloated and sloppy, if you want OT treble, then AD797 (incredible detail, hot treble) but buy more then just 2 because they oscillate so they won't last forever. 
   
  Other then that... THS4032 but thats nice and smooth, its my favourite.
   
  Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Op-amps will change the sound very slightly, its all in details, you can't expect big changes. So if you don't like it now, you might wanna go for a different DAC. Or you could just use an EQ in your music player.


 
  You can't eq a sound signature element like smoothness.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You can't eq a sound signature element like smoothness.


 
   
   
  Well depends what you mean by smoothness. If its a smooth frequency response (which in this case it is I guess, since more punch and treble is wanted), then you could EQ it.


----------



## Biscuitz

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The LME49990 op-amps seem to get good feedback, they cost $60 for three of them off eBay, seller "frugalphile".
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190682726763?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6593816b
> 
> The Essence STX's headphone jack has an impedance of 10-Ohm, which fine headphones that are 80-Ohms or higher.
> ...


 
  Where do I find said third party drivers? And what kind of impact do they have on the sound?
   
  I did disable my motherboard's on-board audio.

 My current Xonar settings are taken directly from the first page of this thread. 2 Channels ; PCM 44.1 KHz ; HF "DSP Mode".
   
  Also, I am not well educated on headphone impedance. I know the very basics, but that's it. Are you saying there are headphone amps that would better match Grado phones than this soundcard? Which ones could I look into? Are there any soundcards which might sound better with Grados? I exclusively listen to music on my computer, so I prefer a soundcard over an external amp / DAC if possible, but if the sound is right I'd gladly use an external. I am on a budget however when it comes to an amp / DAC. I'd like to spend no more than $300 total between amp & DAC.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Where do I find said third party drivers? And what kind of impact do they have on the sound?
> 
> I did disable my motherboard's on-board audio.
> 
> ...


 
  The Brainbit website has the "Unified Xonar Drivers".
  It is preferred that the headphone Ohm rating be 8 times or more of the impedance (Ohm) rating of the headphone output..
  Most sound cards have a higher impedance then the Essence's 10-Ohm, some sound cards have an impedance of 35-Ohm or 100-Ohm.
  If you can, you could return the Essence STX and get an Xonar DX or D1 (used $50, decent DAC), which has almost the same features as the STX.
  That would give you more cash towards an external headphone amplifier.
  Which external headphone amplifier? Matrix M-stage?


----------



## PelPix

I think my ST may be broken.  I keep getting very quiet random garbage out of the left RCA channel.  It sounds very watery and digital in nature.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Well depends what you mean by smoothness. If its a smooth frequency response (which in this case it is I guess, since more punch and treble is wanted), then you could EQ it.


 
  No smoothness as in the opposite of harsh, a smooth relaxing element to the sound. 
   
  Quote: 





pelpix said:


> I think my ST may be broken.  I keep getting very quiet random garbage out of the left RCA channel.  It sounds very watery and digital in nature.


 
  Or the Opamp died? I killed my headphone amp but everything else is fine.
   
   
  @STV014 it is my headphone amplifier, which makes me wonder what could have killed it? Just using it at high volume for long periods, or the impedance adapter?


----------



## Biscuitz

How does the Xonar Essence STX compare to the NuForce Icon HDP in terms of sound quality? I'm disappointed in the Xonar, would I likely also be disappointed in the HDP?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> How does the Xonar Essence STX compare to the NuForce Icon HDP in terms of sound quality? I'm disappointed in the Xonar, would I likely also be disappointed in the HDP?


 
   
  What is disappointing exactly ? What headphones do you use ?


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> @STV014 it is my headphone amplifier, which makes me wonder what could have killed it? Just using it at high volume for long periods, or the impedance adapter?


 
   
  Listening at high volume with the adapter can be dangerous if the TPA6120 is not sufficiently well cooled on the card, that is why I recommend using the highest possible serial resistor (originally 24 Ω) with which sufficient volume can still be achieved. Obviously, decreasing the resistors makes the situation worse. The small SMT 10 Ω output resistors would also need to be able to handle about 0.33 W in theory, although it is probably less with music. Oscillation in the I/V stage op amps is also a potential risk.
  The best solution would be to use a decent low impedance headphone amplifier, as it allows for really low output impedance, and lower distortion as well (see the yellow trace here for how the STX handles a 22 Ω load at 1.48 Vrms, -60 dB is 0.1 %; it might not actually be audible, though).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Listening at high volume with the adapter can be dangerous if the TPA6120 is not sufficiently well cooled on the card, that is why I recommend using the highest possible serial resistor (originally 24 Ω) with which sufficient volume can still be achieved. Obviously, decreasing the resistors makes the situation worse. The small SMT 10 Ω output resistors would also need to be able to handle about 0.33 W in theory, although it is probably less with music. Oscillation in the I/V stage op amps is also a potential risk.
> The best solution would be to use a decent low impedance headphone amplifier, as it allows for really low output impedance, and lower distortion as well (see the yellow trace here for how the STX handles a 22 Ω load at 1.48 Vrms, -60 dB is 0.1 %; it might not actually be audible, though).


 
  The graph I don't really get, but I the figures I do, it becomes a battle of lesser evils.
   
  In my faux impedance decreasing adapter I have:
  Denon: 25 ohm
  Serial resister (per channel): 2x 47ohm in parallel
  Parallel resistor (per channel to ground): 2x 4.7ohm in parallel.
   
  total of 8 resistors (one tight fit.)
   
  The net output impedance from the perspective of the headphones is 1.2ohm about. But I had to run the soundcard at pretty much max volume (65-76%) on the highest gain, and with movies it got a further boost, upto 100%.


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> The net output impedance from the perspective of the headphones is 1.2ohm about.


 
   
  Isn't it actually 2.2 Ω ? 1.2 would need 4 parallel resistors.


----------



## PelPix

Could it be the opamp?  I have a few spares.
   
  It's a very quiet crackle that sounds exactly like decimated white noise.  It occurs every few minutes and can go hours without happening.  It comes out the left RCA channel and can happen even if the output is set to the HPA but the cans are still plugged into the RCA out (which leads me to believe it's some sort of electrical issue).
   
  To troubleshoot, I swapped the two RCA OPA and replaced the LM4562NA with an identical one of my own, which means:
  A. If it was one of the RCA OPA, the problem will switch channels
  and
  B. If it was the 4562, the problem will be fixed!


----------



## Biscuitz

Quote: 





biscuitz said:


> Question!
> 
> I just bought the Xonar STX. I've installed it, and I have to say, I'm quite disappointed in the sound signature. I'm using Grado SR225i's atm, but I ordered a new soundcard because I am stepping up to the RS1i's. I am a Grado guy for sure, so you know I like my treble hot and my highs crips.
> 
> My complaints are: The highs seem too dark for my tastes, and the entire sound is too "smooth".  It just doesn't sound crisp to me. Nothing has punch. It's not just smooth, but a bit blurry or smeary.


 
   
  This is what I mean when I say I'm disappointed. The sound isn't dynamic or exciting to me. The opposite of crisp - that's how I'd describe the sound. Mids and highs are smeary, and lows are smeary on top of that. Weird, unappealing bass. I am currently using Grado SR225i's, and I will receive RS1i's in a couple days here in the mail.
   
  Now here is something to note: A week ago, I went to a local audio store and auditioned the RS1i's, PS500's, and SR325i's on their high end equipment for 3 hours. They all sounded amazing. My SR225i's sounded better than ever on that equipment. Not too far behind the other phones, to be honest! But, when I got home, the Xonar STX arrived in the mail and I got it set up and tried it out, and was immediately disappointed. Now I don't know if: A) The equipment I used for 3 hours had spoiled my ears; or B) My SR225i's, combined with my inferior equipment, really is just that far behind those higher end phones.
   
  The other option that I'm sure you guys are suspecting is that: C) I don't have my Xonar STX set up correctly. Could be, but I am quite confident all is well.
   
  From what I've read on the NuForce Icon HDP, it sounds just like what I'm craving for - crisp, clear sound with tight bass. I have ordered an Icon HD, which was $150 cheaper than the HDP and apparently has exactly the same DAC and AMP, but fewer outputs (but for my needs is sufficient). So the Icon HD should arrive within a week or two, and I will be able to compare it to the Xonar STX.
   
  So I'll ask again: Does anyone have experience with both the STX and the Icon HD(P)? If so, how do they compare? If no one has, I will find out soon enough here, I suppose.


----------



## ROBSCIX

It is possible you have incorrect settings, such as gain for your headphones if required.
   
  What type of media are you playing?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Isn't it actually 2.2 Ω ? 1.2 would need 4 parallel resistors.


 
  I have 4 in total, 2 per channel connecting to ground. I did the math a while a go, will double check. 
   
  @ check the wiki here for setup instructions, but considering the grados take the sound of whatever they are plugged into like my AKGs, I will say the stock opamps are not a good match, I doubt the nuforce will be better. try different opamps, THS4032, or for absolute crispness = harshness the AD797


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I have 4 in total, 2 per channel connecting to ground. I did the math a while a go, will double check.


 
   
  I meant 4 per channel. If you have something like this on a single channel, then the output impedance (what is seen by the headphones) is 2.2 Ω, and the load impedance (what is seen by the output jack of the card) is 25.6 Ω with 24 Ω headphones.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I meant 4 per channel. If you have something like this on a single channel, then the output impedance (what is seen by the headphones) is 2.2 Ω, and the load impedance (what is seen by the output jack of the card) is 25.6 Ω with 24 Ω headphones.


 
  EDIT, oh wait ... that diagram has lost me, my electronic skills are crap, 
   
  excuse my crappy paint drawing, but its the simplest way I can convey it.


----------



## stv014

It is the same then, the schematic diagram above shows only one channel.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It is the same then, the schematic diagram above shows only one channel.


 
  I see now. Thanks, then my calculations were off. Owell. But still. its down to 2 possibilities that killed my TPA6120 (right channel):

 The heavy power draw and possible oscillations
 The impedance adapter.


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Forum!
   
  I wonder if I use the line-out RCAs only, do I need to plug the additional 12V power in?
  Is it powering the headphone amp only?

   
   
  Thank you for the answer


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





nemeske88 said:


> Dear Forum!
> 
> I wonder if I use the line-out RCAs only, do I need to plug the additional 12V power in?
> Is it powering the headphone amp only?
> ...


 
   
  That 12V power in is not additional.  That is the entire power supply to the card.  The card intentionally does not take PCI power like a regular sound card in order to reduce possible noise coming from the bus.
  It will not function whatsoever without plugging it in there.


----------



## Nemeske88

Hey, thanks!
   
  Anyway, that is why others improve the source as they trying to use some independent power instead of using the PSU?


----------



## PelPix

Any good computer PSU will supply very, very clean power.  Hardware components require incredibly clean power to run, which is great for us audiophiles.
  PCI bus power, however, is noisy as heck.


----------



## Rath1on

If you want even cleaner power, have a nice PSU for starters, but have the PSU's input coming from a dedicated UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) using AVR or a really good surge protecter with active noise filtering. Clean signal in, clean signal out. That'll also protect your components from wear and tear from finicky outlet power, not to mention surges. 

I'll be getting the STX tomorrow for my Pro 900s. I've read the OP and searched around a bit and, from what I've gathered, the default opamps will work nicely with my Ultrasones given the amp's bass quality and warm signature with the phone's brighter one. But, I still don't know what is going on with the line out vs headphone out business. The Ultrasones have a 40ohm impedance, but they like more current. Anyone have any info on what "mode" to use? 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rath1on said:


> If you want even cleaner power, have a nice PSU for starters, but have the PSU's input coming from a dedicated UPS (Uninterruptable Power Supply) using AVR or a really good surge protecter with active noise filtering. Clean signal in, clean signal out. That'll also protect your components from wear and tear from finicky outlet power, not to mention surges.
> I'll be getting the STX tomorrow for my Pro 900s. I've read the OP and searched around a bit and, from what I've gathered, the default op-amps will work nicely with my Ultrasones given the amp's bass quality and warm signature with the phone's brighter one. But, I still don't know what is going on with the line out vs headphone out business. The Ultrasones have a 40ohm impedance, but they like more current. Anyone have any info on what "mode" to use?
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


 
  Try the "Normal gain (0dB < 64-Ohm)" setting.


----------



## Jaekus

I have an STX and use foobar. I'm currently using the latest (from last year lol) drivers from Asus. Will I notice an improvement in sound with the unified drivers? And if I use ASIO?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jaekus said:


> I have an STX and use foobar. I'm currently using the latest (from last year lol) drivers from Asus. Will I notice an improvement in sound with the unified drivers? And if I use ASIO?


 
  ASIO, most probably, 
   
  check that you set it up properly here
   
  24bit makes the biggest difference. the biggest difference in the uni drivers is the Latency.


----------



## Jaekus

That's a great link, thanks for your help


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





jaekus said:


> That's a great link, thanks for your help


 
  I wrote it, I better know where it is


----------



## Rath1on

Guys, would there be a difference in using the STX ASIO drivers or High Fidelity WASAPI?


----------



## Jaekus

I remember before my reinstall I tried the ASIO drivers but I think I had some issues, so I ended up using the WASPI (which I'm using this time) with no problems at all.
   
  There is a slight but noticeable improvement over the DS drivers that come with foobar. For me it smoothens out the highs a bit.


----------



## Rath1on

Quote: 





jaekus said:


> I remember before my reinstall I tried the ASIO drivers but I think I had some issues, so I ended up using the WASPI (which I'm using this time) with no problems at all.
> 
> There is a slight but noticeable improvement over the DS drivers that come with foobar. For me it smoothens out the highs a bit.


 
  Yeah, I can definitely notice a difference above the DS drivers. I just couldn't seem to get the ASIO drivers to work properly. I couldn't adjust the volume anywhere but with Foobar itself. WASAPI works fine with HF mode turned on. I doubt it's any less bit perfect than ASIO. Noticeably, at least.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





rath1on said:


> Yeah, I can definitely notice a difference above the DS drivers. I just couldn't seem to get the ASIO drivers to work properly. I couldn't adjust the volume anywhere but with Foobar itself. WASAPI works fine with HF mode turned on. I doubt it's any less bit perfect than ASIO. Noticeably, at least.


 

 You are right about volume control with ASIO, but for me UniXonar V.1.41 with ASIO sound much better than WASAPI


----------



## Rath1on

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> You are right about volume control with ASIO, but for me UniXonar V.1.41 with ASIO sound much better than WASAPI


 
  Is there any way at all to get the volume adjust to go through the sound card with ASIO?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





rath1on said:


> Is there any way at all to get the volume adjust to go through the sound card with ASIO?


 
  You can use foobars volume control if you have that program. You would need to select what volume control to use in Foobar as you do actually have a choice of 3 different volume controls in Foobar. Only one works though. I no longer have Foobar as I didn't care for the program myself.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





germanium said:


> You can use foobars volume control if you have that program. You would need to select what volume control to use in Foobar as you do actually have a choice of 3 different volume controls in Foobar. Only one works though. I no longer have Foobar as I didn't care for the program myself.


 
  I see you figured that out & no there is no other way


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





rath1on said:


> Is there any way at all to get the volume adjust to go through the sound card with ASIO?


 
  well with the latest UNi drivers musicbee controls the soundcard directly, the ASUS centre and the windows controls are useless. Made macro keys, and I'm happy


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> well with the latest UNi drivers musicbee controls the soundcard directly, the ASUS centre and the windows controls are useless. Made macro keys, and I'm happy


 

 That's consistent with the (mis)behavior that Brainbit noted concerning C-Media® CMI8000 Driver  7.12.9.1800 in Versions 1.60 and 1.61 of the Unified XONAR® Driver; thus the recommendation for users of the ST and STX (e.g., myself) to use Version 1.53 (C-Media® CMI8000 Driver 7.12.8.1795).  Never used Musicbee before - might be something to research, find out whether Microsoft® Windows® x64 6.1.7601, 7.0.8001, and 8.0.10000 can run it properly.


----------



## Nemeske88

Thank you for your fast and reliable answers!  
   
   
    
  Quote:


nemeske88 said:


> Dear Forum!
> 
> I wonder if I use the line-out RCAs only, do I need to plug the additional 12V power in?
> Is it powering the headphone amp only?
> ...


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





nemeske88 said:


> Thank you for your fast and reliable answers!


 
  No problem!


----------



## elwappo99

Hi All! 
   
  I've had this card for some time, but never really used the headphone out too much. I'd like to change that for once. After reading I'm thinking of using 2x OPA2137P in the I/V spot. Any recommendations for the buffer slot? Hoping for something a little smoother overall. 
   
thanks


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Hi All!
> 
> I've had this card for some time, but never really used the headphone out too much. I'd like to change that for once. After reading I'm thinking of using 2x OPA2137P in the I/V spot. Any recommendations for the buffer slot? Hoping for something a little smoother overall.
> 
> thanks


 

 The Buffer doesn't affect the headphone amplifier, as it drives the dual RCA analog jacks.
   
  I am currently considering two options for the Buffer myself, as I use the Speakers output to drive the internal sound of a Hewlett-Packard® HP2009m display unit; as an alternate to the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49860NA, a frugalphile@ebay.com developed an adapter with dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA's preinstalled (thanks to PurpleAngel for the additional info).


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> The Buffer doesn't affect the headphone amplifier, as it drives the dual RCA analog jacks.
> 
> I am currently considering two options for the Buffer myself, as I use the Speakers output to drive the internal sound of a Hewlett-Packard® HP2009m display unit; as an alternate to the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49860NA, a frugalphile@ebay.com developed an adapter with dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA's preinstalled (thanks to PurpleAngel for the additional info).


 
  I'd suggest against it.  The ST/X's opamps are very well-chosen for neutrality and for the circuit and there isn't much improvement to be had.
   
  The card ships with an LME49720 in the buffer (Inscribed as "LM4562," but it is the same part).  This opamp already has fantastic performance and you won't get much of a benefit with either of the other options.
  It's also worth noting that the only difference with the 860 is that it's verified stable at higher voltages.  It _could_ just be a cherry-picked LM4562


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> The Buffer doesn't affect the headphone amplifier, as it drives the dual RCA analog jacks.
> 
> I am currently considering two options for the Buffer myself, as I use the Speakers output to drive the internal sound of a Hewlett-Packard® HP2009m display unit; as an alternate to the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49860NA, a frugalphile@ebay.com developed an adapter with dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA's preinstalled (thanks to PurpleAngel for the additional info).


 
   
  Quote: 





pelpix said:


> I'd suggest against it.  The ST/X's opamps are very well-chosen for neutrality and for the circuit and there isn't much improvement to be had.
> 
> The card ships with an LME49720 in the buffer (Inscribed as "LM4562," but it is the same part).  This opamp already has fantastic performance and you won't get much of a benefit with either of the other options.
> It's also worth noting that the only difference with the 860 is that it's verified stable at higher voltages.  It _could_ just be a cherry-picked LM4562


 
   
   
  Interesting! I was planning on changing out the RCA opamp as well at the headphones. I felt the headphone out had a little too much bass that was uncontrolled and not too much clarity. Sounds like I only need to swap the headphone ones then.


----------



## PelPix

There are two I/V opamps that serve as current/voltage converters. changing these will alter the signal of both the rca out and the amp. the third, buffer opamp takes the signal from the two converters and preamps them to be passed through the line out.

At any rate, I don't think you'll find much satisfaction in opamp swapping. the issues you are hearing are likely distortion from the TI dedicated headphone amp and swapping the opamps will not solve your problem.  The converters do not directly drive the headphone out--there is another dedicated chip that does this, and it is with this chip that you have issues.

That's the thing about the stx. The (already beautifully-designed and really unneeding of modification) line out can improve limitlessly, but the headphone out will never actually improve because it is bottlenecked by the ti chip that does the final headphone driving.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> There are two I/V opamps that serve as current/voltage converters. changing these will alter the signal of both the rca out and the amp. the third, buffer opamp takes the signal from the two converters and preamps them to be passed through the line out.
> At any rate, I don't think you'll find much satisfaction in opamp swapping. the issues you are hearing are likely distortion from the TI dedicated headphone amp and swapping the opamps will not solve your problem.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you very much for these comments. So that bloated bass really won't change with the opamps? Disappointing. I'll look for an external amp that's pretty small to match the line out.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> I'd suggest against it.  The ST/X's opamps are very well-chosen for neutrality and for the circuit and there isn't much improvement to be had.
> 
> The card ships with an LME49720 in the buffer (Inscribed as "LM4562," but it is the same part).  This opamp already has fantastic performance and you won't get much of a benefit with either of the other options.
> It's also worth noting that the only difference with the 860 is that it's verified stable at higher voltages.  It _could_ just be a cherry-picked LM4562


 
  No, frankly your wrong, have you ever tried? I doubt it, the stock opamps are cheap, thats why they were chose, the LM4562 and the LME49720 and even the LME49860 are all based on a flawed design, the JRC2114D opamps in the I/V section that are stock cause bass bloat and are harsh. Unbearable with Denons.
   
  THS4032 in the I/V section round out the sound signature nicely, I recommend them. And they are smoother, and more detailed then the JRC.
   
   
   


elwappo99 said:


> Thank you very much for these comments. So that bloated bass really won't change with the opamps? Disappointing. I'll look for an external amp that's pretty small to match the line out.


 
  Read my statement above changeing the JRC opamps out WILL remove the bass bloat. Just not with the LM4562 or any of its derivatives, they remove the bass completely.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Thank you very much for these comments. So that bloated bass really won't change with the opamps? Disappointing. I'll look for an external amp that's pretty small to match the line out.


 
  Sorry man.
  High bass distortion resulting in bloated bass is a well-documented problem with the TI amp used.  If you'd like, here are the design specs:
http://www.ti.com/product/tpa6120a2
   
   
   
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> No, frankly your wrong, have you ever tried? I doubt it, the stock opamps are cheap, thats why they were chose, the LM4562 and the LME49720 and even the LME49860 are all based on a flawed design, the JRC2114D opamps in the I/V section that are stock cause bass bloat and are harsh. Unbearable with Denons.
> 
> THS4032 in the I/V section round out the sound signature nicely, I recommend them. And they are smoother, and more detailed then the JRC.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The price of opamps has nothing to do with their audio performance--the circuit they're used in does.  Opamps are ICs created to miniaturize and optimize certain functions and must be _very specifically_ chosen for a given *circuit*, not a given sound.
  For the load amount and type encountered in the circuit, the stock opamps chosen will supply the best possible performance with the circuit.  You can't get better performance with any amount of money.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Read my statement above changeing the JRC opamps out WILL remove the bass bloat. Just not with the LM4562 or any of its derivatives, they remove the bass completely.


 
   
  And I'm back in. I guess I'll just give this a try myself and report back. A little more help? Is this a good choice to start with for the I/V opamps? I need to get the OPA2137P correct?  Would you recommend changing the buffer at all? What would be a good match for the buffer?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> Sorry man.
> High bass distortion resulting in bloated bass is a well-documented problem with the TI amp used.  If you'd like, here are the design specs:
> http://www.ti.com/product/tpa6120a2
> 
> ...


 
  Regardless, distortion != bloat, 
   
  And have you ever rolled an opamp? No, it matters, ask anyone who has, particularly with AKGs, not so much with denons, but it matters enough. 
   
  Your clearly looking at this from an engineering perspective and not an audio perspective, there are many places where the one does not correlate with the other. Sad truth, and I'm the white paper stats type, so I don't say this lightly.
   
  You could roll a truck into the opamp slot of an STX and the odds are it will work, not well, but it will work. I have tried a fair few, and know what works from those.
   
   
*elwappo99 *I havent tried that opamp, I read somewhere it worked well as a buffer, which does not matter for the headphone jack, I would try LME49990, or THS4032 in IV section. Stay well away from the AD797 (oscillates, harsh, but o so clear) and any LM4562 derivative.
   
  ALso if you are planning on using the STX with denons from the headphone port.... Don't


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> *elwappo99 *I havent tried that opamp, I read somewhere it worked well as a buffer, which does not matter for the headphone jack, I would try LME49990, or THS4032 in IV section. Stay well away from the AD797 (oscillates, harsh, but o so clear) and any LM4562 derivative.
> 
> ALso if you are planning on using the STX with denons from the headphone port.... Don't


 
   
  Great! I'll give them a try.  Any help on which one of these is correct? 
   
http://www.ti.com/product/ths4032#samplebuy


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Regardless, distortion != bloat,
> 
> And have you ever rolled an opamp? No, it matters, ask anyone who has, particularly with AKGs, not so much with denons, but it matters enough.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What op-amps would you recommend for home audio 2-channel use?  The sound I hear with the stock op-amps is lacking in resolution-clarity-detail (details are a bit murky-not so clear)-and on bass "refinement".  Can op-amps really help get a sound that has a LOT more of the things I am looking for OR is it asking a bit much?


----------



## olegausany

After reading too much that STX is not good for Denons to which I don't agree but after discovering I can get a couple of external DAC/AMPs locally and easily return them so got Audioengine D1 and Fiio E17and have 2 questions.Firstly where I can get misplaced optical to coax adapter which came with STX? I'm trying to use STX's optical out to send audio signal to D1's optical input and USB for power only. So after connecting them using optical cable I succesfully used before I chose Xonar STX SPIDF Pass- Thru as default device in Windows and than in Asus control panel I changed 'Headphones' to '2 speakers' put check mark to enable SPIDF and left default PCM as required by Audioengine. Then I set WASAPI : Xonar STX SPIDF Pass-Thru as output device in Foobar's preferences but when I start to play I hear nothing while program looks like song is playimg succesfully. Any suggestions?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> What op-amps would you recommend for home audio 2-channel use?  The sound I hear with the stock op-amps is lacking in resolution-clarity-detail (details are a bit murky-not so clear)-and on bass "refinement".  Can op-amps really help get a sound that has a LOT more of the things I am looking for OR is it asking a bit much?


 
  There rfeally is nothing wrong with the stock opamps. There is plenty that can be done to improve the areas you are talking of. I have gotten incredable results with just direct coupling & power supply mods with this card.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Upon reading the specification sheet for the TPA6120A2 from Texas Instruments®, I found my suspicions confirmed in terms of what sort of headset I need with the STX.  The TPA6120A2 is designed for loads ≥32Ω; with a 10.7Ω source impedance, however, it really needs headsets with ≥100Ω load impedance.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Regardless, distortion != bloat,
> 
> And have you ever rolled an opamp? No, it matters, ask anyone who has, particularly with AKGs, not so much with denons, but it matters enough.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The type and form of distortion that the TI chip imparts presents directly as bass bloat.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> After reading too much that STX is not good for Denons to which I don't agree but after discovering I can get a couple of external DAC/AMPs locally and easily return them so got Audioengine D1 and Fiio E17and have 2 questions.Firstly where I can get misplaced optical to coax adapter which came with STX? I'm trying to use STX's optical out to send audio signal to D1's optical input and USB for power only. So after connecting them using optical cable I succesfully used before I chose Xonar STX SPIDF Pass- Thru as default device in Windows and than in Asus control panel I changed 'Headphones' to '2 speakers' put check mark to enable SPIDF and left default PCM as required by Audioengine. Then I set WASAPI : Xonar STX SPIDF Pass-Thru as output device in Foobar's preferences but when I start to play I hear nothing while program looks like song is playimg succesfully. Any suggestions?


 
  mmm the D1 also has a 10ohm output impedance, so your not avoiding the issue.... just substituting one for the other. The E17 will avoid the issue, but I doubt it will keep up with the STX for clarity. 
   
  Quote: 





audioexcels said:


> What op-amps would you recommend for home audio 2-channel use?  The sound I hear with the stock op-amps is lacking in resolution-clarity-detail (details are a bit murky-not so clear)-and on bass "refinement".  Can op-amps really help get a sound that has a LOT more of the things I am looking for OR is it asking a bit much?


 
  A big bump in clarity is asking a bit much, unless you go discrete and do bypass cap mods, a small bump, and better SS is possible. The bass refinement IME is what changes the most.
   
  I'm only starting to play with that, the THS4032 still work nicely in IV, just trying to sort the buffer, the stock LM4562 has 0 midbass, and does some funny things with the rest of the bass, textures it in a bad way, almost distorting (Denon D7000 + Marantz 2270), although if I had to guess I'm willing to bet you could put 3x LME49990 in there and call it a day.  
   
   
   


pelpix said:


> The type and form of distortion that the TI chip imparts presents directly as bass bloat.


 
  May be true, but it does not invalidate my other points


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> After reading too much that STX is not good for Denons to which I don't agree but after discovering I can get a couple of external DAC/AMPs locally and easily return them so got Audioengine D1 and Fiio E17and have 2 questions.Firstly where I can get misplaced optical to coax adapter which came with STX? I'm trying to use STX's optical out to send audio signal to D1's optical input and USB for power only. So after connecting them using optical cable I succesfully used before I chose Xonar STX SPIDF Pass- Thru as default device in Windows and than in Asus control panel I changed 'Headphones' to '2 speakers' put check mark to enable SPIDF and left default PCM as required by Audioengine. Then I set WASAPI : Xonar STX SPIDF Pass-Thru as output device in Foobar's preferences but when I start to play I hear nothing while program looks like song is playimg succesfully. Any suggestions?


 
  When you set Windows (in 'Sound" playback tab) to Xonar STX S/PDIF pass-thru, it bypass all audio functions on the STX.
  In the Windows>Sound> Playback tab, you need to set to "Speaker Asus Xonar Essence STX audio device".
  and in the Xonar control panel, set analog output to "Headphone", S/PDIF enabled (checked) and set to PCM.
   
  Try leaving foobar to "Primary Sound Driver", or Speaker (Asus Xonar Essence STX Audio Device).


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> When you set Windows (in 'Sound" playback tab) to Xonar STX S/PDIF pass-thru, it bypass all audio functions on the STX.
> In the Windows>Sound> Playback tab, you need to set to "Speaker Asus Xonar Essence STX audio device".
> and in the Xonar control panel, set analog output to "Headphone", S/PDIF enabled (checked) and set to PCM.
> 
> Try leaving foobar to "Primary Sound Driver", or Speaker (Asus Xonar Essence STX Audio Device).


 

 Thanks for trying to help but it still don't work
  E17 has no clarity of STX or D1 so it's going back, but there is noticeable improvement difference on D1 over STX but i hope optical to start working


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Thanks for trying to help but it still don't work
> E17 has no clarity of STX or D1 so it's going back, but there is noticeable improvement difference on D1 over STX but I hope optical to start working


 
  Is the motherboard's on-board audio disabled, in the bios?


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Is the motherboard's on-board audio disabled, in the bios?


 

 Yes


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> There are two I/V opamps that serve as current/voltage converters. changing these will alter the signal of both the rca out and the amp. the third, buffer opamp takes the signal from the two converters and preamps them to be passed through the line out.
> At any rate, I don't think you'll find much satisfaction in opamp swapping. the issues you are hearing are likely distortion from the TI dedicated headphone amp and swapping the opamps will not solve your problem.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Speaking of the I-V, has anyone tested dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172IN's here (with any of the LM4562AN, LME49720NA, LME49860NA, or dual-LME49990MA DIP adapter in the Buffer)?  I ran across mention of this type in the linked Clinica article at TNT-Audio.com, where LM6172IN's were substituted for the stock JRC2114D's in a Marantz® CD-57/63/67-series Compact Disc deck.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> Speaking of the I-V, has anyone tested dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172IN's here (with any of the LM4562AN, LME49720NA, LME49860NA, or dual-LME49990MA DIP adapter in the Buffer)?  I ran across mention of this type in the linked Clinica article at TNT-Audio.com, where LM6172IN's were substituted for the stock JRC2114D's in a Marantz® CD-57/63/67-series Compact Disc deck.


 
  I wouldn't do it.  The slew rate is _thousands_ of times faster than you need for audible frequencies and the THD isn't documented for audible frequencies, but for 50Mhz signals.
  The LM6172 is for video, not audio.  Using it in an audio circuit is asking for trouble unless you very carefully design the circuit around it.  A bipolar opamp with a slew rate that high is not something you pop in to a circuit to replace another opamp.


----------



## ROBSCIX

I have heard of people using the LM6172 for audio but as was said it is not specifically for audio but that doesn't mean it can't be used for it.
  However, with these high spec, fast chips you tend to usually run into stability issues.  If you do not have a scope or know how to figure out the current draw of the amp, just monitor the heat of the chip.
  If it gets hot, the chip is oscillating and will need to be stabilized or replaced with another chip that is more stable.
  I would do more research on the LM6172 before going forward.


----------



## olegausany

So problem is solved, it was optical cable but the correct settings in windows playback default device are Asus SPIDF Pass-Thru and in foobar output as well


----------



## PelPix

There are a lot of reasons I like the ST more than external DACs.  The biggest is no-hassle, properly-clocked, bit-perfect transport without upsampling.


----------



## RushNerd

It's a longshot, but does anyone have experience with this card and the HT Omega Claro Halo at all? Both are pretty darn similar and have the TPA6120A2 headphone amp onboard. I chose the Omega, obviously the Asus is the more popular choice, but are they really that different?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> It's a longshot, but does anyone have experience with this card and the HT Omega Claro Halo at all? Both are pretty darn similar and have the TPA6120A2 headphone amp on-board. I chose the Omega, obviously the Asus is the more popular choice, but are they really that different?


 
  They both use the TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier
  They both use the C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> It's a longshot, but does anyone have experience with this card and the HT Omega Claro Halo at all? Both are pretty darn similar and have the TPA6120A2 headphone amp onboard. I chose the Omega, obviously the Asus is the more popular choice, but are they really that different?


 
  The ST has a low-jitter clock and the Claro Halo does not.  They otherwise perform identically.


----------



## RushNerd

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> The ST has a low-jitter clock and the Claro Halo does not.  They otherwise perform identically.


 
  That's pretty much what I thought. So what is your guys take on this:
   
   


leeperry said:


> Well, the Claro Halo sounds pretty shrill


 
  I suppose he might be right, but I don't see how.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> That's pretty much what I thought. So what is your guys take on this:
> 
> 
> I suppose he might be right, but I don't see how.


 
   
  I hear jitter problems can do that, so it's likely the jitter.


----------



## RushNerd

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> I hear jitter problems can do that, so it's likely the jitter.


 
  The whole "jitter" thing is new to me so I guess i'll have to take your word on it. Do you think the HT Omega card not having this "Low-Jitter Clock" would really effect the sound that much??
   
  I would hate to think I have to cut my losses and buy the Asus card just because of something so simple.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> The whole "jitter" thing is new to me so I guess i'll have to take your word on it. Do you think the HT Omega card not having this "Low-Jitter Clock" would really effect the sound that much??
> 
> I would hate to think I have to cut my losses and buy the Asus card just because of something so simple.


 
  Why is buying the asus card cutting your losses? It's only $4 more.
  Oh, you already bought the Halo.


----------



## RushNerd

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> Why is buying the asus card cutting your losses? It's only $4 more.
> Oh, you already bought the Halo.


 
  No need to be rude.
   
  Anyway this is going to drive me absolutely bonkers so I RMA'd the HT Omega card back to Newegg ($30 restocking fee ouch+shipping). Luckly I was able to find a "Like New" Essence ST on Amazon $150 shipped so it pretty much breaks even.
   
  If anyone is interested, i'll do my best to compare the HT Omega card and the Asus before I send the Omega back for A/B comparison.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> No need to be rude.
> 
> Anyway this is going to drive me absolutely bonkers so I RMA'd the HT Omega card back to Newegg ($30 restocking fee ouch+shipping). Luckly I was able to find a "Like New" Essence ST on Amazon $150 shipped so it pretty much breaks even.
> 
> If anyone is interested, i'll do my best to compare the HT Omega card and the Asus before I send the Omega back for A/B comparison.


 
  Didn't intend to be rude.  I honestly forgot that you had bought it.


----------



## RushNerd

It's all good. When it gets here i'll probably make a thread on the DT990+Xonar ST since this thread doesn't seem to be moving much. Hopefully some other people have that combo.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> There are a lot of reasons I like the ST more than external DACs.  The biggest is no-hassle, properly-clocked, bit-perfect transport without upsampling.


 
  I wouldn't say no-hassle... to get the most from it you need Uni-drivers, and some fiddling.... Hi-Fi mode, ASIO, a proper music player (MusicBee in my case) in total its a fair amount of fiddling
   
  Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Thanks for trying to help but it still don't work
> E17 has no clarity of STX or D1 so it's going back, but there is noticeable improvement difference on D1 over STX but i hope optical to start working


 
  I really Don't think the E17 will keep up with the STX, especially not in the DAC section. like I said your avoiding the output impedance issue... but dropping a level to do it... which won't help.


----------



## PelPix

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I wouldn't say no-hassle... to get the most from it you need Uni-drivers, and some fiddling.... Hi-Fi mode, ASIO, a proper music player (MusicBee in my case) in total its a fair amount of fiddling
> 
> I really Don't think the E17 will keep up with the STX, especially not in the DAC section. like I said your avoiding the output impedance issue... but dropping a level to do it... which won't help.


 
  It comes with its own bit-perfect ASIO driver out of the box.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> It comes with its own bit-perfect ASIO driver out of the box.


 
  Check out the Uni Drivers at brainbit to see what I am talking about. The biggest issue is not the bit perfect, but the latency


----------



## RushNerd

Quote: 





pelpix said:


> The ST has a low-jitter clock and the Claro Halo does not.  They otherwise perform identically.


 
   
   


purpleangel said:


> They both use the TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier
> They both use the C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.


 
  That's why I didn't feel bad getting the Claro Halo...I should have. 
   
  I just got my Xonar Essence today and carefully listened to my Halo before swaping/installing the Asus card. I don't know if the Halo card's high impedence mode was ramped down for cans of 60ohms and up or what, but..
*The Essence ST is at least X2 louder than the Halo's headphone amp. *At least for my 600ohm phones with the settings set for it.
   
  I figured when I saw that a molex power cable plugs into the card, this thing was the real deal, amazing. This will hold me over until a better amp for sometime, very loud and powerful.


----------



## harryyeo

Urgh. The dual LME49990s that I bought off Ebay are touching the component right next to top I/V slot when installed into it. 
  Will it cause any problems in the short/long run if I let it remain touching?
   
  In case you're all wondering, I bought them from hifiic.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320863640326?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1489wt_1163
   
  If there's gonna be problems, I guess I'll just install the LME49860 that I ordered from another seller.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> Urgh. The dual LME49990s that I bought off Ebay are touching the component right next to top I/V slot when installed into it.
> Will it cause any problems in the short/long run if I let it remain touching?
> 
> In case you're all wondering, I bought them from hifiic.
> ...


 
  Nah, should have seen the tower i had while testing, was crazy skew and offset so that i could get 2x (2x LME49710HA) in the IV section. that was scary. My THS4032 also touch the caps, no issues.


----------



## meeklo062704

I'm about to pull the trigger on an essence, and wanted some advice from those that already have it. Aside from the jitter issue, is there any major reason that would sway to one or the other between the st and the stx?  My natural thought is to go stx since it's pci-e, and I don't plan on using it for surround later so the add-on for 7.1 wouldn't factor in. I just got a pair of hd650's a few days ago, and have been on an amp hunt ever since. The asus cards are obviously good, but would anyone recommend other hardware to go along with it?


----------



## stv014

What motherboard do you use or plan to buy in the near future ? If you have no free slots of one type, then there is obviously only one choice. Also, the STX requires a 4-pin molex connector (missing from some newer PSU's, but this can be worked around with a cheap adapter). I do not think the jitter is much of an issue in practice, but maybe the ST is not as noisy at 44.1 kHz; then again, with the HD650, the noise is inaudible anyway.


----------



## meeklo062704

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> What motherboard do you use or plan to buy in the near future ? If you have no free slots of one type, then there is obviously only one choice. Also, the STX requires a 4-pin molex connector (missing from some newer PSU's, but this can be worked around with a cheap adapter). I do not think the jitter is much of an issue in practice, but maybe the ST is not as noisy at 44.1 kHz; then again, with the HD650, the noise is inaudible anyway.


 

 My computer is a new custom gaming pc. I'm only using one of my pci-e slots for a gpu, so I have both slots available. My psu is non-modular, so I have molex connectors coming out of my ears in there. I'm not a hardcore audiophile (yet), so if there are slight imperfections, I probably won't pick up on them. By the time something like a jitter does bug me, it'll have been long enough that the wife won't complain that I bought another "toy", so I can upgrade some components.


----------



## olegausany

Quote: 





meeklo062704 said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on an essence, and wanted some advice from those that already have it. Aside from the jitter issue, is there any major reason that would sway to one or the other between the st and the stx?  My natural thought is to go stx since it's pci-e, and I don't plan on using it for surround later so the add-on for 7.1 wouldn't factor in. I just got a pair of hd650's a few days ago, and have been on an amp hunt ever since. The asus cards are obviously good, but would anyone recommend other hardware to go along with it?


 

 Xonar ST/STX at least with LME49860 opamps isn't good match for HD650, they lacking deep sub-bass


----------



## Rai1gun

...does not work properly with Windows 8.
   
  I'm getting audio, but no Asus CP. It's defaulting to DD Live over coax (maybe because that was how it was set up before upgrading to Win 8), but I cannot switch to analog out, or headphone out---which are the primary reasons I bought the thing in the first place.
   
  With the history of lack of driver updates from Asus, and the STX being an older product, I fear I may be screwed with my barely month-old STX.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





rai1gun said:


> ...does not work properly with Windows 8.
> 
> I'm getting audio, but no Asus CP. It's defaulting to DD Live over coax (maybe because that was how it was set up before upgrading to Win 8), but I cannot switch to analog out, or headphone out---which are the primary reasons I bought the thing in the first place.
> 
> With the history of lack of driver updates from Asus, and the STX being an older product, I fear I may be screwed with my barely month-old STX.


 

 Brainbit has taken up where the ASUSTeK engineers left off.  I'm currently running the Unified XONAR® Driver, Version 1.53, on my Asus® CM1630-06 with Essence™ STX audio and EAH6850 DirectCU® video; Version 1.61 has some compatibility issues with the Essence™ ST and STX (probably a carryover bug from C-Media® CMI-8000 Driver 7.12.9.1800, which supports the CMI-8888DHT used in the ROG™ XONAR® Phoebus™).


----------



## Rai1gun

Confirmed here as well, now running the Uni 1800 v1.61 on Windows 8 Enterprise.
   
  However, I had to disable (DSE) driver signature enforcement first. Windows 8 now forces you to use only digitally signed drivers---which is of course problematic for the Uni Xonar drivers.
   
  What worked for me:
   

 Uninstall STX drivers
 Disable DSE , reboot
 Install Uni Xonar drivers


----------



## meeklo062704

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Xonar ST/STX at least with LME49860 opamps isn't good match for HD650, they lacking deep sub-bass


 

 I guess that's good/bad news. I wasn't super pumped about having my amplification confined to my computer, I just thought it would be best bang for the buck. Any recommendations on a good or better performer in that price range?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





meeklo062704 said:


> I guess that's good/bad news.


 
   
  I would take the "lack of deep bass" comment with a grain of salt. From what I know about the card, there is not really any rational reason why it would be true, while it is easy to see how it could be imaginary/blaming the flaws of the headphone on the amplifier/the result of volume matching issues.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





olegausany said:


> Xonar ST/STX at least with LME49860 opamps isn't good match for HD650, they lacking deep sub-bass


 
  AFAIK thats a side effect of the LME49860.


----------



## kornel221

Hi guys , how is this soundcard compared to Asus Xonar D2 + fiio e9 combo?
   
  I am thinking in selling my xonar and fiio and get this one, or it is better to stay with them?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> Hi guys , how is this soundcard compared to Asus Xonar D2 + fiio e9 combo?
> 
> I am thinking in selling my xonar and fiio and get this one, or it is better to stay with them?


 
   
  What headphones do you have ? Maybe it would be better to sell the FiiO E9, and get a better amplifier only; the built-in one on the Xonar ST/STX is basically the same as the E9.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> Hi guys , how is this sound card compared to Asus Xonar D2 + fiio e9 combo?
> 
> I am thinking in selling my Xonar and Fiio and get this one, or it is better to stay with them?


 
  The D2 and STX are about equal as sound cards.
  The E9 and STX are about equal as headphone amplifiers, same headphone amplifier chip (6120A2).
  So your audio quality will not change switching to the STX.


----------



## kornel221

thank for a quick answer , my headphones are sennheiser hd595 and superlux hd330  , i dont like the sound that i am getting from fiio e9 so i have changed the opamps  and right now it is much better but i am still thinking that the sound could be improved  , i was thinking in get fiio e10 to use it as a dac but people told me that it isnt as good as my xonar , so basicly my question is : How can i improve my current instalation ? without spending much money if it is possible XD , i am using my pc as a source
   
  ( sorry for my english)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> Thank for a quick answer, my headphones are Sennheiser HD595 and Superlux HD330  , I don't like the sound that i am getting from Fiio e9 so i have changed the op-amps  and right now it is much better but i am still thinking that the sound could be improved, I was thinking in get Fiio e10 to use it as a DAC but people told me that it isn't as good as my Xonar, so basicly my question is : How can I improve my current installation ? without spending much money if it is possible XD , i am using my pc as a source
> 
> ( sorry for my english)


 
  You do have your on-board audio, turned off in the bios?
  Get the "Unified Xonar Driver" from the website Brainbit.
  Try using Foobar for playing audio (music).
   
  Not sure what else to do, without spending a lot more money.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> thank for a quick answer , my headphones are sennheiser hd595 and superlux hd330  , i dont like the sound that i am getting from fiio e9 so i have changed the opamps  and right now it is much better but i am still thinking that the sound could be improved  , i was thinking in get fiio e10 to use it as a dac but people told me that it isnt as good as my xonar , so basicly my question is : How can i improve my current instalation ? without spending much money if it is possible XD , i am using my pc as a source
> 
> ( sorry for my english)


 
check the wiki for a setup guide
   
  and the only other way is get a better amplifier.


----------



## kornel221

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> You do have your on-board audio, turned off in the bios?
> Get the "Unified Xonar Driver" from the website Brainbit.
> Try using Foobar for playing audio (music).
> 
> Not sure what else to do, without spending a lot more money.


 
   
  Thanks for answer , what is the difference between "original" driver?
  I use foobar with asio output device , i also use this program to improve sound quality : http://www.windowsxlive.net/fidelizer
  The on board audio disable itself when i plug on pci soundcard
   


wir3d said:


> check the wiki for a setup guide
> 
> and the only other way is get a better amplifier.


 

  Thanks i will take a look 
   
   
  I just installed the latest uni xonar driver and yes it did sound better O_O ! Thanks!


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> and the only other way is get a better amplifier.


 
   
  Or better headphones, for example HD600 instead of the HD595.


----------



## kornel221

I had the hd600, i bought them used for 150€ and i could compared them to my hd595( i did them the soundstage mod ) , and in my impression the hd595 sound better ( after making the mod the sound stage now is huge and i love it for me it is the most important thing in headphones  , bass is better too but i dont like the boomy bass it tide me XD , especially after long time listening) , i tested them with fiio e9 and pro-ject amplifier and in both cases my hd595 had better sound , so afer one week i sold them.
   
  I think that it could be because of type of music i listen to , its mostly rap music , i tried the hd600 with some jazz and classic songs and  was better with that type of music
   
  Again sorry for my englis.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> I had the hd600, i bought them used for 150€ and i could compared them to my hd595( i did them the soundstage mod ) , and in my impression the hd595 sound better ( after making the mod the sound stage now is huge and i love it for me it is the most important thing in headphones  , bass is better too but i dont like the boomy bass it tide me XD , especially after long time listening) , i tested them with fiio e9 and pro-ject amplifier and in both cases my hd595 had better sound , so afer one week i sold them.
> 
> I think that it could be because of type of music i listen to , its mostly rap music , i tried the hd600 with some jazz and classic songs and  was better with that type of music
> 
> Again sorry for my englis.


 
  E9 is ok for what it is, but its not for every headphone, Pro-ject makes good turntables not  good headphone amps. AFAIK the HD600/HD650 really need a great amp.


----------



## kornel221

Yes i know that , as i told i installed the new driver for my xonar and it improved notably sound quality for now i am happy with this easy step , in near futrute i am thinking in get akg k601 or k701 then i will buy new amplifier , i have in mind some valve amp like little dot i think it also will make a good match with sennheiser


----------



## loserica

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> Yes i know that , as i told i installed the new driver for my xonar and it improved notably sound quality for now i am happy with this easy step , in near futrute i am thinking in get akg k601 or k701 then i will buy new amplifier , i have in mind some valve amp like little dot i think it also will make a good match with sennheiser


 
   
  Amplification is extremely important for headphones like HD600/650/AKG K701. Don't You think the K701 without a powerful headphone amplifier! I heard more than a year and a half K701 and in my case, only Jan Meier's PREHEAD put them really worth (on the high-gain output!). It was sinister to put K701 or HD650 on the built-in amplifier of Xonar Essence. It could, overall sound was ok., but the music was not there.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





kornel221 said:


> I had the hd600, i bought them used for 150€ and i could compared them to my hd595( i did them the soundstage mod ) , and in my impression the hd595 sound better ( after making the mod the sound stage now is huge and i love it for me it is the most important thing in headphones  , bass is better too but i dont like the boomy bass it tide me XD , especially after long time listening) , i tested them with fiio e9 and pro-ject amplifier and in both cases my hd595 had better sound , so afer one week i sold them.
> 
> I think that it could be because of type of music i listen to , its mostly rap music , i tried the hd600 with some jazz and classic songs and  was better with that type of music


 
   
  Well, the HD600 was only a random suggestion, and may not be what sounds best to you (especially for rap music). Contrary to what the others say, I do not think the E9 was a major limiting factor. But it does usually take some time to get used to the sound of new headphones.


----------



## gcwebbyuk

Which Op amps would you guys recommend for Grado SR80i phones?
   
  I have posted today about my experience with 3 x LME49860NAs.  I found there was a lot of sibilance on voices, and crashy splashy cymbals.
   
  I have since swapped back to the stock ones, and the sound is very similar.
   
  Through my AudioEngine A2s the sound is just fine.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





gcwebbyuk said:


> Which Op amps would you guys recommend for Grado SR80i phones?
> 
> I have posted today about my experience with 3 x LME49860NAs.  I found there was a lot of sibilance on voices, and crashy splashy cymbals.
> 
> ...


 

 After reading the online specification sheet for the SR80i, I suspect an underdamping problem for the package, as the ST and STX' stock Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier has a source impedance of 10.7Ω at the Headphone jack, versus 32Ω@1kHz for the SR80i.  The ST and STX can drive an offboard headphone amplifier, e.g. the Grado® RA1, through the dual RCA jacks ("2 Speakers").
   
  I happen to be on the hunt for a headset myself and have narrowed my primary search to 250Ω models from AKG® and beyerdynamic®, as I expect to need good damping for monitoring Webcast audio signals; the 200Ω Heil Sound® Pro Set™, available in my area from the Ham Radio Outlet®, is my fallback option.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





gcwebbyuk said:


> Which Op amps would you guys recommend for Grado SR80i phones?
> 
> I have posted today about my experience with 3 x LME49860NAs.  I found there was a lot of sibilance on voices, and crashy splashy cymbals.
> 
> ...


 
  mmm opamps are mainly to sort out other types of sonic preferences, butI can firmly tell you to AVOID the AD797, also grados are not like Denons from my reading and are not really affected by impedance mismatches - just like my AKGs. Which is why tubes are often recommended. But the defacto nowadays are LME49990 and THS4032 (the latter being a push from me) and those are the most detailed and balanced. 
   
   
   


bcschmerker4 said:


> After reading the online specification sheet for the SR80i, I suspect an underdamping problem for the package, as the ST and STX' stock Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier has a source impedance of 10.7Ω at the Headphone jack, versus 32Ω@1kHz for the SR80i.  The ST and STX can drive an offboard headphone amplifier, e.g. the Grado® RA1, through the dual RCA jacks ("2 Speakers").
> 
> I happen to be on the hunt for a headset myself and have narrowed my primary search to 250Ω models from AKG® and beyerdynamic®, as I expect to need good damping for monitoring Webcast audio signals; the 200Ω Heil Sound® Pro Set™, available in my area from the Ham Radio Outlet®, is my fallback option.


 
  Like i said the first point is moot. also IME with my AKG K242HD it really does not give a rats what the output impedance is. ANd I'm quite sure the 55ohm driver is a slightly modified version of their previous driver.


----------



## ZorgDK

Why don't you like the AD797's, WiR3d?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





gcwebbyuk said:


> Which Op amps would you guys recommend for Grado SR80i phones?
> I have posted today about my experience with 3 x LME49860NAs.  I found there was a lot of sibilance on voices, and crashy splashy cymbals.
> I have since swapped back to the stock ones, and the sound is very similar.


 
   
  Grado headphones are known to have a typically bright sound with emphasized upper mids and treble, and rolled off sub-bass. You will not fix it by "rolling" the op amps, try using an equalizer instead.
   
  Quote:  





> Through my AudioEngine A2s the sound is just fine.


 
   
  Which makes it even more likely that the Grados are the problem


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> Like i said the first point is moot. also IME with my AKG K242HD it really does not give a rats what the output impedance is. ANd I'm quite sure the 55ohm driver is a slightly modified version of their previous driver.


 
   
  From the impedance graphs it looks like output impedance does make a difference with the AKG K24x/K27x 55 Ω drivers, more so in fact than with the Denons. But you probably do not like the sub-bass boost of the Denons, and want to minimize it in any possible way, while the bass response of the AKG's is less objectionable to you with or without the small extra boost from under-damping.


----------



## gcwebbyuk

I had a play with the Grados, and put a piece of tissue paper between the driver and the ear cushion (I had been using the GS1000/PS1000 type cushions).  This seems to have calmed down the brightness.
   
  I am going to borrow a set of the stock SR80 cushions from my Dad, and try them (I buggered mine up trying a few mods from the Grado Mods thread before buying the doughnut type).  If they work, then I will keep the stock for listening from my PC and the doughnuts for listening on my iPod etc.


----------



## gcwebbyuk

Original pads seem to have tamed the Grados.  Listening to the same track I tested with before - Rope by the Foo Fighters sounds just right.
   
  They are still quite bright, but not too much.  I have the LME49860NAs back in and sounds very good!


----------



## iamthdecider

Hi guys,
   
  I recently purchased the xonar essence stx for my new computer and have installed the drivers for it. I am using HD650s in the back headphone jack and the sound output is extremely low even at the highest audio gain setting. When I plug the headphones into the motherboard sound output jack they are actually quite louder than when plugged into the soundcard.
   
  Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this?


----------



## connieflyer

On the Xonar Audio Center under the main button select headphone go over to the second icon (looks like a hammer) and click.  Change the impedance match from the default to the impedance of your phones. Try that.


----------



## iamthdecider

Quote: 





connieflyer said:


> On the Xonar Audio Center under the main button select headphone go over to the second icon (looks like a hammer) and click.  Change the impedance match from the default to the impedance of your phones. Try that.


 
   
  Yeah I already matched my impedance to the correct setting. It is a bit louder but still nowhere near as loud as it should be.


----------



## GodOfDeath

Quote: 





iamthdecider said:


> Yeah I already matched my impedance to the correct setting. It is a bit louder but still nowhere near as loud as it should be.


 
   
  Try using the 7.1 virtual speaker shifter option


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





iamthdecider said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I recently purchased the Xonar Essence STX for my new computer and have installed the drivers for it. I am using HD650s in the back headphone jack and the sound output is extremely low even at the highest audio gain setting. When I plug the headphones into the motherboard sound output jack they are actually quite louder than when plugged into the sound card.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this?


 
  So, I'm assuming the on-board audio is enabled while the Essence STX is installed at the same time?
  Try disabling on-board audio, in the bios.
  Then install the "Unified Xonar Driver" at the Brainbit website.
  And get the program foobar for audio (music).
  See if any of that helps.


----------



## JoeinLA

Is the STX able to send sound / output to multiple outputs at once? I would like to be able to send a signal to a Behringer A500 to power some Buttkickers and, at the same time, send sound to either an AV receiver (to listen through a 5.1 speaker setup) or to a JDS Labs Objective 2 amp (to listen to through headphones). Could I send different signals through different outputs (e.g., send music to headphones and game through the 5.1 speakers?

Also, do I even need to use the O2 amp? I'm using Beyerdynamicz DT 990 600 ohm headphones. 

Currently, I'm running mutil-channel analog for games from my on board MB (Asus Maximus V Gene) to my AV Receiver and 5.1 speakers, and sending music to an Asus U3 USB soundcard to the O2 Amp and the DT 990's (or running everything to the U3 and Dolby Headphone if my wife is trying to sleep). 

Will the STX will produce much better music quality than the U3 or about the same?

Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## RushNerd

Quote: 





joeinla said:


> send a signal to a Behringer A500 to power some Buttkickers


 
  Lol i've never ran into anyone who had the buttkickers, how is it? I imagine it's a sublime combo with headphones.


----------



## JoeinLA

Haven't gotten them hooked up yet  but will let you know as soon as I do


----------



## RushNerd

Quote: 





joeinla said:


> Haven't gotten them hooked up yet  but will let you know as soon as I do


 
  Thanks. I can't believe they discontinued them, seemed like a top-shelf idea that anyone with headphones might make use of.
   
  Also I had the DT990 600ohm this month for a week powered by my Essence XT amp, seemed to be a damn good combo, though I could say the volume could have gone a little higher and it felt like the bass wasn't full where it should be, could just be the cans. They seemed pretty smooth though, good cans, just not for me.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





joeinla said:


> Is the STX able to send sound / output to multiple outputs at once? I would like to be able to send a signal to a Behringer A500 to power some Buttkickers and, at the same time, send sound to either an AV receiver (to listen through a 5.1 speaker setup) or to a JDS Labs Objective 2 amp (to listen to through headphones). Could I send different signals through different outputs (e.g., send music to headphones and game through the 5.1 speakers?
> Also, do I even need to use the O2 amp? I'm using Beyerdynamicz DT 990 600 ohm headphones.
> Currently, I'm running mutil-channel analog for games from my on board MB (Asus Maximus V Gene) to my AV Receiver and 5.1 speakers, and sending music to an Asus U3 USB soundcard to the O2 Amp and the DT 990's (or running everything to the U3 and Dolby Headphone if my wife is trying to sleep).
> 
> ...


 

 The XONAR® Essence STX can send simultaneously to one of its three Analog Outs (relay-controlled) and the Digital Out.  Under Microsoft® Windows® 6.0-up, the STX can transmit either PCM (which I use for daisy-chaining to my LinUX box's Creative Laboratories® SB0350 PCI audio card, via the SB0250 I/O Drive's Digital In) or Dolby® Digital Live (used to feed multichannel sound to a surround decoder/processor and its associated amplifiers, or alternately a home-theatre receiver).  The dual-RCA analog out ("2 Speakers") will drive an external stereo amplifier or receiver.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





godofdeath said:


> Try using the 7.1 virtual speaker shifter option


 
  What?! No, that will just degrade quality like a champion.
   
  Quote: 





joeinla said:


> Will the STX will produce much better music quality than the U3 or about the same?
> Thanks in advance!!!


 
  Much, much, much better.
   
  Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Why don't you like the AD797's, WiR3d?


 
  Treble makes my ears bleed with AKG K242hd, and the odds are high they are oscillating - which means they will eventually die.
   
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> From the impedance graphs it looks like output impedance does make a difference with the AKG K24x/K27x 55 Ω drivers, more so in fact than with the Denons. But you probably do not like the sub-bass boost of the Denons, and want to minimize it in any possible way, while the bass response of the AKG's is less objectionable to you with or without the small extra boost from under-damping.


 
  Did not even think that far, that is highly possible. Then again AKGs in general have always needed some colouration for musicality, so the odds are its helping.


----------



## Nemeske88

I am sorry for asking it here but have you ever tried the Essence One? What are your impressions, is it worth an upgrade?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





nemeske88 said:


> I am sorry for asking it here but have you ever tried the Essence One? What are your impressions, is it worth an upgrade?


 
  Sorry have not, there is a thread for it.


----------



## iamthdecider

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> So, I'm assuming the on-board audio is enabled while the Essence STX is installed at the same time?
> Try disabling on-board audio, in the bios.
> Then install the "Unified Xonar Driver" at the Brainbit website.
> And get the program foobar for audio (music).
> See if any of that helps.


 
  I installed the uni xonar drivers and am getting no sound output of any kind. Are you supposed to install the uni xonar drivers on top of the existing ASUS drivers? I uninstalled the asus drivers first completely and then installed the uni ones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





iamthdecider said:


> I installed the uni xonar drivers and am getting no sound output of any kind. Are you supposed to install the uni xonar drivers on top of the existing ASUS drivers? I uninstalled the asus drivers first completely and then installed the uni ones.


 
  I personally just install the Unified drivers over the Asus ones.
  Maybe you should uninstall all Asus/Unified drivers then do a fresh reinstall the drivers.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





joeinla said:


> Also, do I even need to use the O2 amp? I'm using Beyerdynamicz DT 990 600 ohm headphones.


 
   
  You do not need the O2 for those headphones. It has the most advantage over the built-in TPA6120 with low impedance headphones and IEMs.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





iamthdecider said:


> Yeah I already matched my impedance to the correct setting. It is a bit louder but still nowhere near as loud as it should be.


 
   
  Check the mixer settings:

   
  - set "Wave" to the maximum
  - "LEFT" and "RIGHT" should be at exactly 76% (that is the default setting, too)
  - make sure that none of the buttons at the bottom right are turned on; disable any other DSP effects as well
  - use the large dial at the top right to increase volume if necessary
  - set the already mentioned gain to the highest "600 Ohm" mode
  - not related to the volume problem, but use 44100 Hz/24-bit mode (in the Xonar Audio Center and the Windows audio configuration) for music playback to avoid sample rate conversion and 16-bit digital volume control


----------



## Eagle1911

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Check the mixer settings:
> 
> 
> - set "Wave" to the maximum
> ...


----------



## stv014

With the HD650, the 44100 Hz noise problem is not likely to be audible, so it may make sense to choose it over sample rate conversion. That is, of course, assuming that it is mostly 44100 Hz material (such as audio ripped from CDs) that will be played back.


----------



## iamthdecider

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> With the HD650, the 44100 Hz noise problem is not likely to be audible, so it may make sense to choose it over sample rate conversion. That is, of course, assuming that it is mostly 44100 Hz material (such as audio ripped from CDs) that will be played back.


 
  Thanks for the help. I'll try those settings as soon as I get a chance. I'm out of town for labor day right now so I'll report back as soon as I can.


----------



## Novorei

What's a good dual opamp upgrade for I/V and differential section? 
   
  How much improvement can I hear:
   
  using a power supply mod. What PS mod?
  in 44.1kHz music with a good XO and which XO?
  removing the output caps?
  changing caps to film?


----------



## Sylverant

I recently put a new computer together and bought the Essence STX with it hoping to get an upgrade from the Realtek 898 in my mobo.

 While it did produce some seriously sweet sounds and had a lot of power, I found its presentation of those sounds to be really flat and blended, as well as a bit too bright. The thing just didn't like my AKG headphones at all. My HD560, which are bright for Sennheiser's, did not benefit either. I also feel that it still wasn't managing to drive the K400 properly, even though I couldn't raise the volume past 22 on medium gain; the K400 requires a bit more power than the K701. The STX also reveals all of the terrible distortion that's comes with the Sony CMT-A70, which have 10% THD.

 Believe it or not, the Realtek 898 [which has an actual SNR of -110db in my Asrock Extreme 4 mobo] has a much nicer presentation with headphones than the stock opamp STX did. Although I'm sure replacing the opamp's in the I/V with the LME49720NA would give me the presentation I'm looking for, I'm just not really willing to play with opamps, since I'm out $170 if I kill something. I'd rather RMA it and spend that on a good amp


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> I recently put a new computer together and bought the Essence STX with it hoping to get an upgrade from the Realtek 898 in my mobo.
> 
> While it did produce some seriously sweet sounds and had a lot of power, I found its presentation of those sounds to be really flat and blended, as well as a bit too bright. The thing just didn't like my AKG headphones at all. My HD560, which are bright for Sennheiser's, did not benefit either. I also feel that it still wasn't managing to drive the K400 properly, even though I couldn't raise the volume past 22 on medium gain; the K400 requires a bit more power than the K701. The STX also reveals all of the terrible distortion that's comes with the Sony CMT-A70, which have 10% THD.
> 
> Believe it or not, the Realtek 898 [which has an actual SNR of -110db in my Asrock Extreme 4 mobo] has a much nicer presentation with headphones than the stock opamp STX did. Although I'm sure replacing the opamp's in the I/V with the LME49720NA would give me the presentation I'm looking for, I'm just not really willing to play with opamps, since I'm out $170 if I kill something. I'd rather RMA it and spend that on a good amp


 
  Did you disable the on-board audio while using the Essence STX?
  Try the "Unified Xonar Driver" at the website Brainbit.


----------



## Sylverant

I disabled on-board audio in the Asrock bios [it was under southbridge] before opening up my computer and installing it. I also placed the soundcard in PCI-E3, which is furthest away from the HD6850 which was in the PCI-E1 slot. I didn't try the Unified Xonar Driver though; would asus's 2011 drivers really cause that kind of a flat, unseparated presentation? I presumed that an opamp swap was the only way to fix it.

 It could be a number of things, my psu is a cheap Corsair CX600V2, which maybe isn't supplying clean -or constant- enough power to the amp. Aside from the bass distortion, the quality it brought out of my speakers was excellent.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> I disabled on-board audio in the Asrock bios [it was under southbridge] before opening up my computer and installing it. I also placed the soundcard in PCI-E3, which is furthest away from the HD6850 which was in the PCI-E1 slot. I didn't try the Unified Xonar Driver though; would asus's 2011 drivers really cause that kind of a flat, unseparated presentation? I presumed that an opamp swap was the only way to fix it.
> 
> It could be a number of things, my psu is a cheap Corsair CX600V2, which maybe isn't supplying clean -or constant- enough power to the amp. Aside from the bass distortion, the quality it brought out of my speakers was excellent.


 

 I use an Antec® TruePower 750 Blue in my Asus® CM1630-06, which packs two Asus® cards: an EAH6850 DirectCU® video card in the x16 slot and a XONAR® STX in the x1 slot.  Insufficient power availability at the primary +12VDC rail (which supplies the hard disc and optical drives with motor voltage) will have a detrimental effect on the analog outputs.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> I disabled on-board audio in the Asrock bios [it was under southbridge] before opening up my computer and installing it. I also placed the sound card in PCI-E3, which is furthest away from the HD6850 which was in the PCI-E1 slot. I didn't try the Unified Xonar Driver though; would asus's 2011 drivers really cause that kind of a flat, unseparated presentation? I presumed that an op-amp swap was the only way to fix it.
> 
> It could be a number of things, my psu is a cheap Corsair CX600V2, which maybe isn't supplying clean -or constant- enough power to the amp. Aside from the bass distortion, the quality it brought out of my speakers was excellent.


 
  Most seem to like the Unified Xonar Drivers.
  Asus may not take advantage of all possible ways of improving their drivers for reasons like stability.
  Where as Brainbit can get away with taking more risks.
  Anyway, it's free for you to try the Unified Xonar Drivers.


----------



## Sylverant

Thanks for the advice guys, it's most likely insufficient power on the +12VDC rail. The Corsair CX600V2 is rated 40A on that rail; my Gigabyte HD6850OC requires 34 amps and I have an SSD, HDD, Bluray drive and dvd burner that pull from it, along with card reader's and other mobo peripherals -such as multiple upgraded fans. I don't think I'll get the performance this card is really capable of with my current psu. I can no longer RMA the psu and can't afford to buy a more expensive one at this point.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Thanks for the advice guys, it's most likely insufficient power on the +12VDC rail. The Corsair CX600V2 is rated 40A on that rail; my Gigabyte HD6850OC requires 34 amps and I have an SSD, HDD, Bluray drive and dvd burner that pull from it, along with card reader's and other mobo peripherals -such as multiple upgraded fans. I don't think I'll get the performance this card is really capable of with my current psu. I can no longer RMA the psu and can't afford to buy a more expensive one at this point.


 
  Highly possible.
   
  Also on the opamps, THS4032 or LME49990. the LME49720 and LME49860 are both flawed.


----------



## repman244

I doubt it's the PSU, I have a HX850 that runs an overclocked Phenom II 1090T, 4x2GB of RAM, overclocked HD5870, 3 SATA drives and 2 SAS drives with a SAS controller, 6 case fans.
  And your card doesn't pull 34A all the time so in idle you don't even come close to put a strain on the PSU. Hell that PSU could run my PC with no problems at all.
  Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Thanks for the advice guys, it's most likely insufficient power on the +12VDC rail. The Corsair CX600V2 is rated 40A on that rail; my Gigabyte HD6850OC requires 34 amps and I have an SSD, HDD, Bluray drive and dvd burner that pull from it, along with card reader's and other mobo peripherals -such as multiple upgraded fans. I don't think I'll get the performance this card is really capable of with my current psu. I can no longer RMA the psu and can't afford to buy a more expensive one at this point.


----------



## Sylverant

Edited because stupid question.


----------



## maarek99

It's not the PSU. Xonar is just a slightly overrated piece of equipment. It really lacks a lot of texture (sounds flat, especially with my hd650) and changing opamps will not change that. Good points to it are an excellent frequency response and a great dynamic range.


----------



## chewy4

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't feel like going through 240 pages...
   
  I noticed that there are two places to set the sample rate: In the playback devices properties in Windows, where it gives 8 choices of varying bit depths and sample rates, and in the Xonar Audio Center, where I can only seem to find how to change sample rate but not bit depth.
   
   
  What is my sound actually getting played at? I'm guessing it's the Xonar Audio Center, but then where can I set bit depth? Should I even be setting bit depth in the first place(is it at 16 for games? can't seem to find this anywhere...)?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but I don't feel like going through 240 pages...
> 
> I noticed that there are two places to set the sample rate: In the playback devices properties in Windows, where it gives 8 choices of varying bit depths and sample rates, and in the Xonar Audio Center, where I can only seem to find how to change sample rate but not bit depth.
> 
> ...


 
   The bit depth is set in the windows sound proprties as is the sample rate as windows sees it however whatever the sample rate that windows has is converted by the card to whatever the cards sample rate is. There is no advantage to sample rate conversion in windows as no reduction of jitter can be accomplished there. That can only be accomplished by sample rate conversion at the card however either way I doubt seriously you will hear a difference. Do make sure though that whatever your sample rate that windows is set for 24 bit bit depth. this allows volume control that does not lose any quality till it goes well below what you can hear or use by any stretch of the imagination. It may be possible to hear a loss if set to 16 bit however modern DACs do really wellto a point that most people will not be able to hear the loss of quality even at -60db & be just bearly noticable @ -80db


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





germanium said:


> The bit depth is set in the windows sound proprties as is the sample rate as windows sees it however whatever the sample rate that windows has is converted by the card to whatever the cards sample rate is. There is no advantage to sample rate conversion in windows as no reduction of jitter can be accomplished there. That can only be accomplished by sample rate conversion at the card however either way I doubt seriously you will hear a difference. Do make sure though that whatever your sample rate that windows is set for 24 bit bit depth. this allows volume control that does not lose any quality till it goes well below what you can hear or use by any stretch of the imagination. It may be possible to hear a loss if set to 16 bit however modern DACs do really wellto a point that most people will not be able to hear the loss of quality even at -60db & be just bearly noticable @ -80db


 
   
  I'm a little confused by your first sentence... If I want 48K sample rate do I have to set it in both Windows and with the card's program? Otherwise the card will convert it again to whatever it is set to if I'm understanding you correctly? I notice there really isn't much of a difference that I can notice yeah, but I like to have it match the media I'm using so there are is no unnecessary conversion going on.
   
  But I'll make sure to always set it at 24 bit... thank you for the advice.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


maarek99 said:


> It's not the PSU. Xonar is just a slightly overrated piece of equipment. It really lacks a lot of texture (sounds flat, especially with my hd650) and changing opamps will not change that. Good points to it are an excellent frequency response and a great dynamic range.


 
   
  Edit: my card sounded terrible because I had it plugged into my 200mm case fans 4-pin power connector. After trying to clean out the old drivers with driver fusion I couldn't get to the uni drivers to install in Windows 7 x64 test mode and sig bypass, though its fine for now -I'm happily in love with the sounds its producing.

 Sounds pretty wide and open, and at times appears to image behind me with some instruments. I'm definitely getting the depth and instrument separation that I wasn't before, and there is no longer anything missing in the sound. It's just a ton cleaner than the Realtek 898.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I'm a little confused by your first sentence... If I want 48K sample rate do I have to set it in both Windows and with the card's program? Otherwise the card will convert it again to whatever it is set to if I'm understanding you correctly? I notice there really isn't much of a difference that I can notice yeah, but I like to have it match the media I'm using so there are is no unnecessary conversion going on.
> 
> But I'll make sure to always set it at 24 bit... thank you for the advice.


 
   The answer to your question is yes you need to set both to the sample rate your media is unless you use a program that uses ASIO or WASAPI. then just set the cards ample rate to be sure. WASAPI will only play supported sample rates so likely no conversion takes place. ASIO will play any sample rate but may convert sample rates that are not directly supported by card, in other words 88.2 & 176.4 sample rates may still be converted to a supported sample rate in ASIO though not entirely sure of that.


----------



## chewy4

Alright cool, thanks for the help!


----------



## elwappo99

Finally got around to swapping some opamps. 
   
  My favorite pic is the 2137. Slightly smoother treble on the top. Midrange slightly drawn back. Bass is extremely tight and airy. Very well controlled. It's a perfect chip for warmer headphones (like the MA900 from sony that I just got  )


----------



## kk6cq

OPA1612 OP amp question? 
   
I've read a few posts that people are using a OPA1612 in the buffer, aka "Right and Left channel differential to single end". Can this chip also be used in the two I/V converter slots on the Asus Xonar Essence STX?
   
   
I ordered three OPA1612's and some 8-SOIC TO 8-DIP adapters
and figured I'd try them, but don't want to burn up my card if I wrongly place
them in the two I/V converter slots
   
Specs:  http://www.ti.com/product/opa1612
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1612.pdf
   
I'm currently using three LME49722's with 8-SOIC TO 8-DIP adapters
and they sound awesome.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Finally got around to swapping some opamps.
> 
> My favorite pic is the 2137. Slightly smoother treble on the top. Midrange slightly drawn back. Bass is extremely tight and airy. Very well controlled. It's a perfect chip for warmer headphones (like the MA900 from sony that I just got  )


 
   
   
  How do you compare the mA900 to HD650? Especially in overall resolution of the sound and soundstage size.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> How do you compare the mA900 to HD650? Especially in overall resolution of the sound and soundstage size.


 
   
  Interesting question. I'd say the MA900 are definitely more open. Kind of a mix between the K701 and HD650. However, from memory, the HD650 are a more clear headphone through the midrange. The MA900 have a hint of a veil, and a little more control in the bass.


----------



## DamageInc77

I have a quick question. I just got a Schiit Lyr to power my LCD-2 as the Essence ST isn't really doing it for me.
   
  My question is if I should hook the Essence ST to the Lyr via the RCA or the Headphone output via a RCA to jack? Which will be most optimal?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I have a quick question. I just got a Schiit Lyr to power my LCD-2 as the Essence ST isn't really doing it for me.
> 
> My question is if I should hook the Essence ST to the Lyr via the RCA or the Headphone output via a RCA to jack? Which will be most optimal?


 
   
   
  Never use headphone output to connect to another amp.  Always use the RCA outputs on the card, and in the driver setup panel set the output as front speakers.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Never use headphone output to connect to another amp.  Always use the RCA outputs on the card, and in the driver setup panel set the output as front speakers.


 
  But I also have a NAD T765 which is hooked up to some really nice speakers. Will it be bad if I then use the headphone out to the NAD receiver?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> But I also have a NAD T765 which is hooked up to some really nice speakers. Will it be bad if I then use the headphone out to the NAD receiver?


 
   
  Well, a headphone out is a headphone out, its not designed to be a line out. Try, but I would not do it that way.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Hey guys,
   
  Loving this thread! I decided to get some new opamps for my ST card and found a place where i can order some, but i'm getting multiple hits with different specs on some of the parts.
   
  I.e. I'm looking at a 2x LME49720NA and LM6172IN combo. With respect to LME49720NA  i'm getting two hits at Farnells site. Can someone tell me which one is the "right" one or if they are the same?
   
  http://uk.farnell.com/national-semiconductor/lme49720na-nopb/op-amp-audio-17vin-55mhz-8dip/dp/2102668
  http://uk.farnell.com/national-semiconductor/lme49720na-nopb/ic-audio-op-amp-55mhz-dip-8/dp/1694587
   
  Cheers!
  Martin


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Loving this thread! I decided to get some new opamps for my ST card and found a place where i can order some, but i'm getting multiple hits with different specs on some of the parts.
> 
> ...


 
  I have that same combo, but I decided not to buy from that shop as I had the same problem as you. I purchased mine from the NooElec ebay shop. http://myworld.ebay.com/nooelec/&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2754
   
  They ship really fast and have great customer service.


----------



## harryyeo

After a long time I finally got to install the STX into my rig with 3 sets of LME49990MA op amps.
  But the sound output is strange.
  The left channel is barely heard while the right channel is overpowering.
  Confirmed this on both headphone out and RCA out.
  I also tried both Unified Xonar drivers and the official drivers from Asus but the problem persists.
   
  Anyone knows what's happening?


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I have that same combo, but I decided not to buy from that shop as I had the same problem as you. I purchased mine from the NooElec ebay shop. http://myworld.ebay.com/nooelec/&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2754
> 
> They ship really fast and have great customer service.


 
   
  Thanks Dam, i'll check it out!


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Thanks Dam, i'll check it out!


 
   
  Believe it or not, but i'm having the same problem again, even at that Ebay shop : ) 
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49720NA-Dual-OpAmp-Audiophile-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160536400278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2560b71196#ht_2477wt_906
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49860NA-Dual-Low-Noise-Audio-OpAmp-AUTHENTIC-LME49860N-LME49860-DIP-8-USA-/160704162578?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256ab6eb12#ht_2837wt_1163
   
  Which one did you get?


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Believe it or not, but i'm having the same problem again, even at that Ebay shop : )
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49720NA-Dual-OpAmp-Audiophile-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160536400278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2560b71196#ht_2477wt_906
> 
> ...


 
  I got this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-LME49720NA-Dual-HiFi-OpAmp-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160582575653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item256377a625#ht_2477wt_906
   
  It's a kit of 2.
   
  And then this for the buffer: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LM6172IN-Dual-Voltage-Feedback-OpAmp-LM6172-DIP-Op-Amp-/150552966865?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item230da7f6d1#ht_2518wt_1163
   
  It's a really good combo and great upgrade for a soundcard.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> After a long time I finally got to install the STX into my rig with 3 sets of LME49990MA op amps.
> But the sound output is strange.
> The left channel is barely heard while the right channel is overpowering.
> Confirmed this on both headphone out and RCA out.
> ...


 
  Have you tried the mixer tab in the Xonar Audio Center? There is a channel mixer there.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I got this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-LME49720NA-Dual-HiFi-OpAmp-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160582575653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item256377a625#ht_2477wt_906
> 
> It's a kit of 2.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Cheers man! I'll be placing an order : )


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> Have you tried the mixer tab in the Xonar Audio Center? There is a channel mixer there.


 
  Or the opamps aren't seated properly


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


damageinc77 said:


> I got this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-LME49720NA-Dual-HiFi-OpAmp-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160582575653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item256377a625#ht_2477wt_906
> 
> It's a kit of 2.
> 
> ...


 

 I've actually been wondering about this combo myself. I find the bass quantity and quality to be perfect with the stock opamps, so I don't want to sacrifice that, but I'd like more depth/sound stage. I've heard that the LME49720 are a great choice for the sound stage, but reduce the bass extension a bit.

 In other words What would be the best opamp combo for increasing depth without affecting the bass?


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Loving this thread! I decided to get some new opamps for my ST card and found a place where i can order some, but i'm getting multiple hits with different specs on some of the parts.
> 
> ...


 

 The National Semiconductor® LM6172IN is not intended for device loads typical of audio usage, unlike the LME49720NA, which is rated for a 600Ω load; I'd therefore limit use of the LM6172IN to the I-V position.  I'm researching improved IC's for my own XONAR® STX and plan on either the LME49860NA or (provided they and the required DIP8 adapter can fit the height limitation imposed by the RF shield) dual LME49990MA's for the Buffer; the LME49860NA has a wider safe range for power supply than the LME49720NA but will run as consistently.


----------



## Sylverant

So the LM6172 isn't safe in the buffer; that's good to know.


----------



## elwappo99

After putting in OPA2137 into the I/V my RCA out to my speakers is starting to get some distortion. Anyone help with this one? 
   
I'll try to do some experimenting later to see if I can find a software reason.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> The National Semiconductor® LM6172IN is not intended for device loads typical of audio usage, unlike the LME49720NA, which is rated for a 600Ω load; I'd therefore limit use of the LM6172IN to the I-V position.  I'm researching improved IC's for my own XONAR® STX and plan on either the LME49860NA or (provided they and the required DIP8 adapter can fit the height limitation imposed by the RF shield) dual LME49990MA's for the Buffer; the LME49860NA has a wider safe range for power supply than the LME49720NA but will run as consistently.


 
   
  Thanks for the tip! Basically i went with that combo because of what i read in the Q/A section on opamps. Has anyone actually had trouble using the LM6172IN in the buffer slot? Maybe i'm getting things mixed up, but i thought there was only a single buffer slot? You mention using dual LME49990MA's. 
   
  Cheers.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Thanks for the tip! Basically i went with that combo because of what i read in the Q/A section on opamps. Has anyone actually had trouble using the LM6172IN in the buffer slot? Maybe i'm getting things mixed up, but i thought there was only a single buffer slot? You mention using dual LME49990MA's.
> 
> Cheers.


 
  I am using the LM6172IN in the buffer and so are many other people, with absolutely no problems. You have nothing to worry about.
   
  And it doesn't really matter anyway if you are only using the Headphone out. It's only the RCA that uses the buffer.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I am using the LM6172IN in the buffer and so are many other people, with absolutely no problems. You have nothing to worry about.
> 
> And it doesn't really matter anyway if you are only using the Headphone out. It's only the RCA that uses the buffer.


 
   
  Cool, thanks. For now i'll only be using the headphone out but i guess i'll be using the RCA when/if i move to a desktop amp.


----------



## harryyeo

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Or the opamps aren't seated properly


 
   
  Sadly they were.
  Luckily. I had other opamps to use.
  Bought a batch of THS4032 so I replaced the LME49990MAs with them.
  And. It's now fixed.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> Sadly they were.
> Luckily. I had other opamps to use.
> Bought a batch of THS4032 so I replaced the LME49990MAs with them.
> And. It's now fixed.


 
   
  Did you put them in the I/V slots? How do you like them?


----------



## harryyeo

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Did you put them in the I/V slots? How do you like them?


 
   
  All the available slots actually.
  Hopefully that's okay, but after a whole day of usage, there seem to be no problems.
   
  As I'm a noob when it comes to descriptions all I can say is. I LOVE WHAT I AM HEARING. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  As a futile attempt to try to describe what I am hearing, wider soundstage, better clarity, and better instrument separation. (If this looks foreign to you just look at the summary above)


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> All the available slots actually.
> Hopefully that's okay, but after a whole day of usage, there seem to be no problems.
> 
> As I'm a noob when it comes to descriptions all I can say is. I LOVE WHAT I AM HEARING.
> ...


 
  the imaging is probably their strongest suit, I'm running 3x THS4032 at the moment too. 
   
  Still curious to a hear a comparison between them and the LME49990. Compared to the AD797 it loses out just a little in soundstage depth, but makes up for it in a smoother presentation with tons of speed and slightly better imaging.


----------



## harryyeo

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> the imaging is probably their strongest suit, I'm running 3x THS4032 at the moment too.
> 
> Still curious to a hear a comparison between them and the LME49990. Compared to the AD797 it loses out just a little in soundstage depth, but makes up for it in a smoother presentation with tons of speed and slightly better imaging.


 
   
   
  Can't really compare between LME49990 on my end since my set can only hear the right channel.
  Maybe when I purchase another set of LME49990s and fix them in.
  But my wallet has taken some serious damage and I can't afford them atm.
  (And I friggin lazy to take the sound card out again)


----------



## elwappo99

So the way to run 3x THS4032 is to get something like this  and put them on top? How do they fit? Do the pins slide in or do they need soldering?


----------



## harryyeo

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> So the way to run 3x THS4032 is to get something like this  and put them on top? How do they fit? Do the pins slide in or do they need soldering?


 
   
  Solder the THS4032 on top of the adaptor. Once done, just align it properly onto the soundcard's socket and push it in.
  I'm lazy so i just get the pre-soldered ones off ebay.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Are you guys running straight out of the headphone out, or have you felt a need for external amping (Depends on the headphones i imagine)? If so, what headphones have you felt a need to amp externally?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Are you guys running straight out of the headphone out, or have you felt a need for external amping (Depends on the headphones i imagine)? If so, what headphones have you felt a need to amp externally?
> 
> Cheers!


 
   
  I've used many headphones with my ST, and while it was sufficient to power all of them to sound good, and get loud enough, I've always felt the sound was congested, soundstage small, bass not punchy enough and highs harsh in comparison to plugging headphones into head amps, receivers or integrated amps. Right now I'm using Onkyo A-5VL integrated amp with all my headphones, ranging from low impedance Ultrasone HFi2400 to 600Ohm DT880's, and it sounds noticeably better than when plugged into ST, and there's much more power and headroom available.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Are you guys running straight out of the headphone out, or have you felt a need for external amping (Depends on the headphones i imagine)? If so, what headphones have you felt a need to amp externally?
> 
> Cheers!


 
  I run my Denon AH-D2000 straight out of the headphones jack, but for my LCD-2 I have to run it with my external amp.
   
  The Essence ST and STX will run almost any headphones fine except for inefficient orthodynamic headphones, ie Hifiman and Audeze headphones.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I run my Denon AH-D2000 straight out of the headphones jack, but for my LCD-2 I have to run it with my external amp.
> 
> The Essence ST and STX will run almost any headphones fine except for inefficient orthodynamic headphones, ie Hifiman and Audeze headphones.


 
   
   


derbigpr said:


> I've used many headphones with my ST, and while it was sufficient to power all of them to sound good, and get loud enough, I've always felt the sound was congested, soundstage small, bass not punchy enough and highs harsh in comparison to plugging headphones into head amps, receivers or integrated amps. Right now I'm using Onkyo A-5VL integrated amp with all my headphones, ranging from low impedance Ultrasone HFi2400 to 600Ohm DT880's, and it sounds noticeably better than when plugged into ST, and there's much more power and headroom available.


 
   
   I was planning on getting a pair of HE-400's. Guess i'll be looking at an amp aswell. Gotta love this forum : ) Thanks.


----------



## stv014

I would also add some of the IEMs that are either very sensitive (audible hiss) or are significantly affected by output impedance (balanced armatures) as "problematic" for the Xonar ST/STX.
   
  The HE-400 is relatively efficient for an orthodynamic headphone, so it would work reasonably well from your card. The LCD-2 and maybe the HE-500 could be usable ones, too. Although none of these are "perfect", as the TPA6120 has relatively high distortion driving inefficient low impedance loads, but it is still expected to be within the low 0.0x% range for the LCD-2. For most headphones below 100 Ω, the O2 is technically an improvement, but not necessarily an audible one.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> I was planning on getting a pair of HE-400's. Guess i'll be looking at an amp aswell. Gotta love this forum : ) Thanks.


 
   
  Probably. IMHO when going for headphones like HE-400's, or any of the K701, DT880/990, HD600/650 range, even some below that, even though power wouldn't be an issue, sound quality of the headphone output will hold such headphone back.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I would also add some of the IEMs that are either very sensitive (audible hiss) or are significantly affected by output impedance (balanced armatures) as "problematic" for the Xonar ST/STX.
> 
> The HE-400 is relatively efficient for an orthodynamic headphone, so it would work reasonably well from your card. The LCD-2 and maybe the HE-500 could be usable ones, too. Although none of these are "perfect", as the TPA6120 has relatively high distortion driving inefficient low impedance loads, but it is still expected to be within the low 0.0x% range for the LCD-2. For most headphones below 100 Ω, the O2 is technically an improvement, but not necessarily an audible one.


 
   
  I have audible hissing with my current Denon D1100 headphones on the ST. I was wondering about that. So you're saying that i wouldn't experience any hissing with the HE-400's, them being relatively effecient and having low impedance?


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Probably. IMHO when going for headphones like HE-400's, or any of the K701, DT880/990, HD600/650 range, even some below that, even though power wouldn't be an issue, sound quality of the headphone output will hold such headphone back.


 
   
  I'm positive you're right about that. I've started reading up on what kind of entry-level desktop amps that'll satisfy something like HE-400.


----------



## chewy4

My HE400's work great with it... no hissing and no distortion with loud volumes. Bass can get ridiculously loud.
   
  Granted I haven't heard them on any other amp. But I don't see the logic in an amp having anything to do with soundstage.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> My HE400's work great with it... no hissing and no distortion with loud volumes. Bass can get ridiculously loud.
> 
> Granted I haven't heard them on any other amp. But I don't see the logic in an amp having anything to do with soundstage.


 
  I would beg to differ... more micro details = better positional cues = better imaging + soundstage 
   
  My personal experience.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> I would beg to differ... more micro details = better positional cues = better imaging + soundstage
> 
> My personal experience.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> My HE400's work great with it... no hissing and no distortion with loud volumes. Bass can get ridiculously loud.
> 
> Granted I haven't heard them on any other amp. But I don't see the logic in an amp having anything to do with soundstage.


 
   
   
  Amps definitely have a lot to do with soundstage. Headphones certainly have a good hand in it too, but once you get into higher end amps you can really hear the opening of a soundstage in a way headphones can't do on their own.


----------



## chewy4

The job of an amp isn't even to change the sound though... It's to amplify it while maintaining the quality that is put into it. They don't add more detail, they already have the analogue sound signal and any detail lost from that can't magically be regained. If an amp has enough power to drive the headphones and doesn't distort the sound then you can't really get much better than that...
   
  As for the HE-400's specifically...To suggest you get a high end amp for these things is silly. They are engineered specifically to not need an amp to reach their potential. It says this on their manufacturers website, and I don't know why they'd lie about this(especially seeing as they make amps). The only reason you need one is if they are not loud enough for you.
   
  I know plenty of people are saying they turn into totally different headphones with better bass and all that jazz when you get an amp, but I didn't get that at all. When making a switch from completely unamped to an STX, the only significant change I noticed at equal volumes was a removal of distortion from sub-bass and extreme high frequencies. This was just due to the change in DAC though, as I had that distortion from super easy to drive headphones as well. Other than that, they sounded like the exact same headphones.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> The job of an amp isn't even to change the sound though... It's to amplify it while maintaining the quality that is put into it. They don't add more detail, they already have the analogue sound signal and any detail lost from that can't magically be regained. If an amp has enough power to drive the headphones and doesn't distort the sound then you can't really get much better than that...
> 
> As for the HE-400's specifically...To suggest you get a high end amp for these things is silly. They are engineered specifically to not need an amp to reach their potential. It says this on their manufacturers website, and I don't know why they'd lie about this(especially seeing as they make amps). The only reason you need one is if they are not loud enough for you.
> 
> I know plenty of people are saying they turn into totally different headphones with better bass and all that jazz when you get an amp, but I didn't get that at all. When making a switch from completely unamped to an STX, the only significant change I noticed at equal volumes was a removal of distortion from sub-bass and extreme high frequencies. This was just due to the change in DAC though, as I had that distortion from super easy to drive headphones as well. Other than that, they sounded like the exact same headphones.


 
  You an engineer by any chance? because you sound like a theory textbook, and in audio the practical results are vastly different from the theory. Also your theory is wrong.
   
  An amp should be wire-with-gain, but its not, and they do colour the sound, for better or worse. Also no the HE-400 were not designed not to need an amp, they were designed like the Denon D2000 to make it quite independent from amps to a point and to still sound good even with minimal amping. Once you get a proper amp and hear the difference come back to me.
   
  With my denons the effects are apparent when removing impedance mismatches and feeding it with lots of clean current. 
   
  volume != driveability.
   
  Also the STX is a good DAC, the hp amp is only OK.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> I have audible hissing with my current Denon D1100 headphones on the ST. I was wondering about that. So you're saying that i wouldn't experience any hissing with the HE-400's, them being relatively effecient and having low impedance?


 
   
  The HE-400 would have less hiss, because it is less sensitive than the D1100. High impedance DTxx0, and HD6xx headphones can be completely silent if there is no interference from the computer.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> You an engineer by any chance? because you sound like a theory textbook, and in audio the practical results are vastly different from the theory. Also your theory is wrong.
> 
> An amp should be wire-with-gain, but its not, and they do colour the sound, for better or worse. Also no the HE-400 were not designed not to need an amp, they were designed like the Denon D2000 to make it quite independent from amps to a point and to still sound good even with minimal amping. Once you get a proper amp and hear the difference come back to me.
> 
> ...


 
  Saying someone is wrong without reason doesn't really do any good. I'm not saying that you personally don't actually hear a difference, I'm sure you do.
   
  I've heard from people who have spent plenty of cash on amps as well say the opposite thing in regards to actual sound quality and amps.
   
  Sorry but having heard no major impact on sound quality no-amp vs an amp with loads of headroom to spare, and seeing that all of the things a better amp is said to improve being intangible, unmeasurable things doesn't make me a believer. Especially since the sense of hearing is so easily manipulated, things can sound better due to your current emotion alone.
   
   
  And let me pull a quote from head-direct about the HE-400's...
   
   


> it is 92.5DB efficient so it can be driven by virtually anything including an iPod.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Saying someone is wrong without reason doesn't really do any good. I'm not saying that you personally don't actually hear a difference, I'm sure you do.
> 
> I've heard from people who have spent plenty of cash on amps as well say the opposite thing in regards to actual sound quality and amps.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve here. You got a clear answer to your question, with plenty of reason and I guess you skipped over that part. Just because you have headroom to spare on an amplifier, doesn't mean it's a high quality amplifier. 
   
  Headphone amplifiers are often not even 'amplifying' the sound most of the time. Check out the front of the phonitor because it'll give you a better understanding of this. You really have to crank up the volume before you 'amplify' the sound. A good amp with smooth out the sound, separate music, and can do many other things. Have you ever heard anything straight from a DAC? It sounds cold and lifeless.
   
  You keep getting caught up with the whole notion loud = properly driven. The HE-400 can be plugged into an ipod and cranked up to a decent volume. However, if you connect those same HE-400 to a nicer dac and a nicer amplifier, they will sound better.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to achieve here. You got a clear answer to your question, with plenty of reason and I guess you skipped over that part. Just because you have headroom to spare on an amplifier, doesn't mean it's a high quality amplifier.
> 
> Headphone amplifiers are often not even 'amplifying' the sound most of the time. Check out the front of the phonitor because it'll give you a better understanding of this. You really have to crank up the volume before you 'amplify' the sound. A good amp with smooth out the sound, separate music, and can do many other things. Have you ever heard anything straight from a DAC? It sounds cold and lifeless.
> 
> You keep getting caught up with the whole notion loud = properly driven. The HE-400 can be plugged into an ipod and cranked up to a decent volume. However, if you connect those same HE-400 to a nicer dac and a nicer amplifier, they will sound better.


 

 I did not get well supported reason. Mostly just contradictions and relaying personal experience... and when I have heard more experienced members say the opposite thing on the extent of the effect of a high end amp then that really doesn't do anything for me. 
   
  And yes I have heard audio straight from a DAC. That's my entire point with the HE-400's, the sound quality was similar to me and not as highly effected as many people would lead you to believe. These things do not need a lot of power to drive as they are high efficiency and low impedance; no need to get a super expensive amp for them.
   
  I know there is often tonality change in different amps, and yes I understand it is not all about loudness, but if a headphone is already properly driven they're not likely going to change it into a new headphone with a high end amp. I can't find any tangible evidence or blind testing that supports that they do.

 Sorry for throwing this thread off topic though... I'm just trying to say STX is plenty good for HE-400.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I did not get well supported reason. Mostly just contradictions and relaying personal experience... and when I have heard more experienced members say the opposite thing on the extent of the effect of a high end amp then that really doesn't do anything for me.
> 
> And yes I have heard audio straight from a DAC. That's my entire point with the HE-400's, the sound quality was similar to me and not as highly effected as many people would lead you to believe. These things do not need a lot of power to drive as they are high efficiency and low impedance; no need to get a super expensive amp for them.
> 
> I know there is often tonality change in different amps, and yes I understand it is not all about loudness, but if a headphone is already properly driven they're not likely going to change it into a new headphone with a high end amp. I can't find any tangible evidence or blind testing that supports that they do.


 
   
  What DAC did you heard the HE-400 from? I only ask, because it's not completely easy to get audio straight from a decent DAC. 
   
  'Properly driven' isn't necessarily an objective term. Getting headphones to a certain volume doesn't necessarily mean they are being properly driven. You can see a whole slew of people trying different amplifiers for the HE-6 trying to properly drive them, even thought they may get to certain volumes on lower quality ones. You're right, a pair of headphones will not transform into a different sound with a better amplifier, but they do improve with better quality amplifiers.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> What DAC did you heard the HE-400 from? I only ask, because it's not completely easy to get audio straight from a decent DAC.
> 
> 'Properly driven' isn't necessarily an objective term. Getting headphones to a certain volume doesn't necessarily mean they are being properly driven. You can see a whole slew of people trying different amplifiers for the HE-6 trying to properly drive them, even thought they may get to certain volumes on lower quality ones. You're right, a pair of headphones will not transform into a different sound with a better amplifier, but they do improve with better quality amplifiers.


 
  Just an Audigy Soundblaster SE, $30 soundcard. Unless I'm misenterpresting straight from a dac here and there is some amplification going on there.
   
  Really all I'm questioning here is the extent of the quality change, I certainly don't think it makes no change at all. Many people do say that an amp upgrade will turn headphones into a whole new pair, and while that's definitely true if it's totally mismatched or not enough power in the first place, it has me scratching my head when the lower end amp is already matched up fine. Like I said I really wish there was more blind testing on this subject.


----------



## Psyside

Ok, someone please explain me this.
   
  I got Xonar STX + AIMP3 set to this settings,
   

   
  Now, as you can see im using ASIO mode setup in AIMP3, but the ASIO control panel is set to 16 bit and 80ms, (have 10 ms option) also im using Xonar Uni drivers, version 1796 v1.53.
   
   
  What should i set at ASIO control panel for *best audio quality, and why? what does those settings do? *
   
*At the end, did i lose sound quality with this default settings? please answer and thanks!*
   
*One more thing, do i need the change the sample rate etc, whenever i play some higher sample rate track?*


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The HE-400 would have less hiss, because it is less sensitive than the D1100. High impedance DTxx0, and HD6xx headphones can be completely silent if there is no interference from the computer.


 
   
  Ahh, gotcha. Thanks.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Sorry for throwing this thread off topic though... I'm just trying to say STX is plenty good for HE-400.


 
   
  Don't be sorry. I enjoyed the discussion you guys were on to and it seemed pretty relevant to the question of whether or not an ST/STX could drive headphones in that range without further amping.


----------



## Psyside

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Ok, someone please explain me this.
> 
> I got Xonar STX + AIMP3 set to this settings,
> 
> ...


 
   
  Anyone ?


----------



## JavierS

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Anyone ?


 
   
  Set ASIO at least to 24bit.


----------



## Psyside

Thanks!
   
  Can you give me some info about other settings/questions?


----------



## WiR3D

elwappo99 said:


> What DAC did you heard the HE-400 from? I only ask, because it's not completely easy to get audio straight from a decent DAC.
> 
> 'Properly driven' isn't necessarily an objective term. Getting headphones to a certain volume doesn't necessarily mean they are being properly driven. You can see a whole slew of people trying different amplifiers for the HE-6 trying to properly drive them, even thought they may get to certain volumes on lower quality ones. You're right, a pair of headphones will not transform into a different sound with a better amplifier, but they do improve with better quality amplifiers.


 
  I really don't think he understand the difference between driveability and volume. And his practical tests don't support his theory, an asgard (not that I am a fan of Schiit) for example is relatively cheap and many people love the improvement with the HE-400, the other this is chewy4's ears may still be at a very novice level, which makes this debate pointless. 
    
   
  Quote:


chewy4 said:


> Just an Audigy Soundblaster SE, $30 soundcard. Unless I'm misenterpresting straight from a dac here and there is some amplification going on there.
> 
> Really all I'm questioning here is the extent of the quality change, I certainly don't think it makes no change at all. Many people do say that an amp upgrade will turn headphones into a whole new pair, and while that's definitely true if it's totally mismatched or not enough power in the first place, it has me scratching my head when the lower end amp is already matched up fine. Like I said I really wish there was more blind testing on this subject.


 
  There is amplification going on there. They won't change the headphone, they will just make it better at what it is, and possibly round out some issues depending on the amp. It does follow the law of diminishing with low impedance headphones like the HE-400 and D2000, as compared to headphones like the HD600 which really do need an amp. 
   
  This hobby is packed with the law of diminishing returns, so even that does not debunk the value of amps.
   
   
  Quote: 





psyside said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Can you give me some info about other settings/questions?


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki
  then get back to us.


----------



## chewy4

I assure you my ears are not at the novice level, I've been using them my whole life.
   
  Everything else you said seems to agree with what I was saying though. Spending tons of money on an amp for a headphone like HE-400 isn't going to hold as much value as if it were put elsewhere due to the law of diminishing returns. An amp like the STX or E17 would be a much better option for those who don't also own or plan to own much harder to drive headphones(in terms of value/$).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I assure you my ears are not at the novice level, I've been using them my whole life.
> 
> Everything else you said seems to agree with what I was saying though. Spending tons of money on an amp for a headphone like HE-400 isn't going to hold as much value as if it were put elsewhere due to the law of diminishing returns. An amp like the STX or E17 would be a much better option for those who don't also own or plan to own much harder to drive headphones(in terms of value/$).


 
  I dunno, an E17 costs what $150? and stx costs $200, I assure you there would be a fair difference getting an amp like the Asgard ($250?) for its retail price in conjunction with a good DAC like the STX. 
   
  its not far down the law of diminishing returns. But certainly not at AKG/sennheiser amp level.


----------



## chewy4

Perhaps... Maybe I'll give it a shot when I get some spare cash again, can always return it if I get it from Amazon.
   
  One thing that I don't know how would work with that though... the only input is RCA, right?
   
  With the STX, it considers that L+R speaker output. Using settings meant for speakers on my previous soundcard sounded _terrible_, at least in games.
   
  EDIT: er, I'm guessing you can just get a headphone to RCA converter... I think I might have one laying around


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Perhaps... Maybe I'll give it a shot when I get some spare cash again, can always return it if I get it from Amazon.
> 
> One thing that I don't know how would work with that though... the only input is RCA, right?
> 
> ...


 
  no with the stx use the line out RCA jacks. it has even better clarity then the HP out. just stick with basic settings.
   
  24bit/48kHz, asio + upsampling(to 48kHz) music player. and you should be good.


----------



## chewy4

It's programmed for speakers not headphones though, seems like there could be some undesirable results.
   
  Plus no extra amp, and no Dolby Headphone for games and movies. I haven't played around with Dolby Virtual speaker too much but I don't think it would translate over as well as Dolby Headphone, seeing as it's designed for speakers in front of you not to the right and left of you.


----------



## Sylverant

Does anyone have an older 1.0.3 compatible version of Foobar2000's Asio Driver?

 Wasapi is great, but I don't like having to resample 88.2khz content up to 96khz in Foobar when using the STX, and there are some components that I am not willing to give up by updating to the latest version.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> no with the stx use the line out RCA jacks. it has even better clarity then the HP out. just stick with basic settings.


 
   This is untrue though the specs are better on the line out. Specs do not nessessarily convert to good sound. The headphone amp is definately clearer than the line out stock though by direct coupling the lineout the detail is equivolent, sound is better overall after direct coupling.


----------



## chewy4

So would there be anything wrong with getting a cable like this: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347682388&sr=1-1&keywords=headphone+to+rca
  ?
   
  Would the quality of the headphone out stay intact or would this kind of splitting degrade the quality? Gaming sound is pretty essential to me and it seems like straight RCA would negatively impact it due to the way the STX is programmed.


----------



## Psyside

> http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki
> then get back to us.


 
   
  Thanks! i set my AIMP3 to 24 bit and 48K and windows like this, is this ok?
   

   
   
   
   


wir3d said:


> no with the stx use the line out RCA jacks. it has even better clarity then the HP out. just stick with basic settings.
> 
> 24bit/48kHz, asio + upsampling(to 48kHz) music player. and you should be good.


 
  What do you mean by line out RCA? can you explain a bit for a noob like me? i also got monitors  connected on my STX, could i still use that connection for my headphones?


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


chewy4 said:


> Perhaps... Maybe I'll give it a shot when I get some spare cash again, can always return it if I get it from Amazon.
> 
> One thing that I don't know how would work with that though... the only input is RCA, right?
> 
> ...


 
  Quote:


chewy4 said:


> It's programmed for speakers not headphones though, seems like there could be some undesirable results.
> 
> Plus no extra amp, and no Dolby Headphone for games and movies. I haven't played around with Dolby Virtual speaker too much but I don't think it would translate over as well as Dolby Headphone, seeing as it's designed for speakers in front of you not to the right and left of you.


 
  Quote:


chewy4 said:


> So would there be anything wrong with getting a cable like this: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347682388&sr=1-1&keywords=headphone+to+rca
> ?
> 
> Would the quality of the headphone out stay intact or would this kind of splitting degrade the quality? Gaming sound is pretty essential to me and it seems like straight RCA would negatively impact it due to the way the STX is programmed.


 

 Yes, the headphone out is D.C. coupled and the RCA line out isn't, but that doesn't mean your going to get much better performance out of the HP out. Remember that the "speaker" out on the STX is really just the unamplified line out, which is still the cleaner signal. There is no special "speaker" programing on the STX, unless your talking about the emulated stereo surround settings which are easily disabled.

 What exactly did you want to do with the STX again though?


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





psyside said:


> What do you mean by line out RCA? can you explain a bit for a noob like me? i also got monitors  connected on my STX, could i still use that connection for my headphones?


 
   
  Line out RCA is just the red and white RCA ports.
    
   
  Quote:


sylverant said:


> Quote:
> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 
  I wanted to try hooking it up to another amp.
   
  I was mostly referring to the emulated surround sound settings yes... very good for games. But I remember on my soundblaster if it wasn't set to headphone mode the sound would jump all over the place in games in a very bad way. That doesn't seem to be the case here but I'll have to test it more.
   
  The slightly increased clarity of the RCA doesn't seem worth losing Dolby Headphone... I mean I can already not hear any noise when I have the volume pumped up to full blast. So I'd like to know if splitting a headphone out line would cause and problems, I wouldn't think so but I'd like to be sure.


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> So I'd like to know if splitting a headphone out line would cause and problems, I wouldn't think so but I'd like to be sure.


 
   
  If you mean using a 3.5mm jack to RCA cable (not really a splitter) from the headphone output, it would probably work fine, but you need to be careful to set a level that your amplifier can handle. Here is a short comparison of the two outputs:
  Line:
  - driven by LM4562, 100 Ω output impedance, ~2.15 Vrms maximum level
  - AC coupled, 220 uF output capacitors
  - ~110 dB SNR at 44100 Hz, referenced to 2 Vrms
  - additional lowpass filter (-3 dB at ~190 kHz) in the buffer stage, so maybe less RF noise from the DAC
  Headphone:
  - driven by TPA6120A2, ~10 Ω output impedance, ~7 Vrms maximum level
  - DC coupled, ~28 mV DC offset (this may have some random variation)
  - ~100 dB SNR at 44100 Hz, referenced to 2 Vrms; it is still good enough if you control the volume at the amplifier
  - lowpass filter only in the I/V stage
  Although if you do not actually intend to use the RCA outputs, nor drive headphones with the headphone jack, it may make more sense to use the Xonar D1/DX/D2/D2X instead.


----------



## Sylverant

Edit: stv014 already answered the question.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





germanium said:


> This is untrue though the specs are better on the line out. Specs do not nessessarily convert to good sound. The headphone amp is definately clearer than the line out stock though by direct coupling the lineout the detail is equivolent, sound is better overall after direct coupling.


 
  nope, IME the "speaker" line outs are better. they have better clarity, especially when hauling out the crappy stock opamps. 
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> It's programmed for speakers not headphones though, seems like there could be some undesirable results.
> 
> Plus no extra amp, and no Dolby Headphone for games and movies. I haven't played around with Dolby Virtual speaker too much but I don't think it would translate over as well as Dolby Headphone, seeing as it's designed for speakers in front of you not to the right and left of you.


 
  nope. it is programmed to GIVE YOU THE OPTION for special speaker stuff, but just put on HF (Hi-fi) mode or use ASIO and you bypass it all anyway. No undesirable effects.
   Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> So would there be anything wrong with getting a cable like this: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1347682388&sr=1-1&keywords=headphone+to+rca
> ?
> 
> Would the quality of the headphone out stay intact or would this kind of splitting degrade the quality? Gaming sound is pretty essential to me and it seems like straight RCA would negatively impact it due to the way the STX is programmed.


 
  your double amping, don't.
  Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Yes, the headphone out is D.C. coupled and the RCA line out isn't, but that doesn't mean your going to get much better performance out of the HP out. Remember that the "speaker" out on the STX is really just the unamplified line out, which is still the cleaner signal. There is no special "speaker" programing on the STX, unless your talking about the emulated stereo surround settings which are easily disabled.
> 
> What exactly did you want to do with the STX again though?


 
  This.
   
  Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I was mostly referring to the emulated surround sound settings yes... very good for games. But I remember on my soundblaster if it wasn't set to headphone mode the sound would jump all over the place in games in a very bad way. That doesn't seem to be the case here but I'll have to test it more.
> 
> The slightly increased clarity of the RCA doesn't seem worth losing Dolby Headphone... I mean I can already not hear any noise when I have the volume pumped up to full blast. So I'd like to know if splitting a headphone out line would cause and problems, I wouldn't think so but I'd like to be sure.


 
  For dolby headphone, you haveto use the headphone port, but for music, you can use the line outs to an external amp.
   
  No man, your not going to hook the headphones up directly to the line outs!!! 
  And for the last time volume != properly driven. and noise has nothing to do with it, its just adding SNR, basically clarity.
   
*Music*
  Asus (Line outs) -> external amp -> headphones
   
*Games*
  Asus(HP out) + Dolby headphone -> headphones


----------



## chewy4

So Asus(HP Out) +DH > amp > headphones is a bad idea even with amp set to no gain? I realize line out > amp is better for music but was wondering if this would be good for games.
   
  You've lost me on signal to noise ratio having nothing to do with noise though...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> So Asus(HP Out) +DH > amp > headphones is a bad idea even with amp set to no gain? I realize line out > amp is better for music but was wondering if this would be good for games.
> 
> You've lost me on signal to noise ratio having nothing to do with noise though...


 
  its inaudible noise levels on both the hp and line out. Your just passing a cleaner signal, which is still audible in micro details, and soundstaging. 
   
  if you really feel you want to, then run 2 cables, one for games and one for music, the double amping is really kind of pointless, and can only be detrimental. I just plug my headphones directly into the HP port when I play games, and leave them in external amp via the line outs for movies and music.
   
  I should add I use the cyberlink audio decoder with dolby headphone for movies, it sounds the same as the built in one in the Asus card to my ears... well both are way better then the one in my sony receiver anyway.


----------



## ryssen

If I take the spdif signal from the card will it work in both Windows and Linux then?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





ryssen said:


> If I take the spdif signal from the card will it work in both Windows and Linux then?


 
   
  I did not test if it actually works, but S/PDIF should be supported on Linux. There is an "S/PDIF" control in the ALSA mixer that can be muted/unmuted, and the digital output can be accessed as ALSA device "iec958:1,0" (change the card number as needed). Of course, since Dolby technologies are not available, the usefulness of the card is limited when used this way.


----------



## brdnhigh

Hey guys i just got a asus xonar St sound card and was looking to buy a pair of audiophile headphones..im a newbie at this.  was wondering if you guys could help me with what type of headphones to get.  price range around 100-200..maybe 300 if its worth it  i do like some bass as well.  ill be gaming mostly but will also use it for music and movies.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





brdnhigh said:


> Hey guys I just got a Asus Xonar Essence ST sound card and was looking to buy a pair of audiophile headphones..I'm a newbie at this.  was wondering if you guys could help me with what type of headphones to get.  price range around 100-200..maybe 300 if its worth it  i do like some bass as well.  ill be gaming mostly but will also use it for music and movies.


 
  Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250-Ohm (closed)
  Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250-Ohm (open), a full bass & full treble headphone.
  Personally I like using the DT990 more, give a "Movies theater" like sound, for movies.
  The vocals are a little overshadowed by the bass & treble, but the vocals are clear.
   
  Install the "Unified Xonar Drivers" at the Brainbit website.
  Try the free program Foobar for audio (music)
  Classic Media Player at Codecguide for playing any video.


----------



## brdnhigh

ha heck yea! thanks a lot man!  made things real easy for me..super excited to get some headphones and test it out..cant wait


----------



## ryssen

Got these in the mail today:
   

   

   
   

   
   
  Been listening for a while but somehow I found the soung to be "in my face"
  will listen more and maybe change the opamps in the I/V slot.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





ryssen said:


> Got these in the mail today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  TELL ME WHERE TO GET THESE. I NEED THEM.


----------



## ryssen

Thers a guy in India that makes them,he even sells bare PCB´S for them..and they are not so expensive,can´t remember how much right now.
  I will P.M you the e-mail adress to anyone that wants it.
  Beginning with you Damagelnc77


----------



## brdnhigh

Also if anybody knows if i should do this..i read for the preferences for foobar that i should turn off both options under replaygain..then add resampler(pphs) to active dsp and configure to 192000 with ultra..then choose your output to your sound card for device and select 24 bit under output..does anybody know if these are the best options for foobar?


----------



## brdnhigh

also under the device for my sound card in foobar i can choose wasapi(event) or wasapi(push).  does anybody know which one is better..any major differences?


----------



## bambadoo

Not much difference. Have been A-B compared them alot....
  I feel the event style have a slight advantage when it comes to depht in the soundstage. 
   
  It could very well be my mind tricking me...
   
  Sincerely


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *bambadoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It could very well be my mind tricking me...


 
   
  Not unlikely if both are bit perfect, as they should be.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





brdnhigh said:


> ha heck yea! thanks a lot man!  made things real easy for me..super excited to get some headphones and test it out..cant wait


 
Setup guide
   
  And personally I prefer musicBee to foobar, and Media Player Classic Home Cinema or KM-player (for people who really like to tweak)
  Also the AKS K242HD or AKG K240mkII with THS4032 opamps in the I/V section is a good cheaper headphone, but it lacks a bit of the deep sub bass. It has big soundstage, and suits the STX well. 
   
  PurpleAngels recommendations are good though.
  Quote: 





brdnhigh said:


> Also if anybody knows if i should do this..i read for the preferences for foobar that i should turn off both options under replaygain..then add resampler(pphs) to active dsp and configure to 192000 with ultra..then choose your output to your sound card for device and select 24 bit under output..does anybody know if these are the best options for foobar?


 
Setup guide
  24bit @ 48kHz is the best output format, the STX measures the best in the lower sampling rates, but has a bug with 24bit@44.1kHz.
   
  should answer most of your questions.


----------



## gtiboy

Just a quick one guys, I installed 3 LME49720HA's into the STX but there's no sound? why do you think this could be? everything is installed correctly with power. When the computer is turned on you hear that clicking sound by the card and hear a hiss in the headphones, but when I go to play music there's nothing?
   
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
  Just realised they had to be aligned in the same direction according to the marking on the Op-Amp itself.


----------



## brdnhigh

thanks guys..another thing i was wondering does the asus xonar control panel overide the windows settings..and does the foobar settings overide the xonar settings?


----------



## brdnhigh

sorry for all the questions..but is it best to keep the settings at 48/24 for music, movies and games?  and set the channels accordingly and hi fi enabled


----------



## cel4145

This is weird. I just got around to trying the UNi Xonar drivers with my Essence STX. My headphones work great, but I can't switch to the line out using the "2 Speaker" analog setting in the Xonar control interface so that I can use my desktop speakers. Instead, there is a click when "2 Speakers" is enabled and the gain gets boosted on my headphones. 
   
  I'm sure I'm missing something stupid. Any suggestions where to look? 
   
  Windows 7 64-bit. v1.61 UNi Xonar


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> This is weird. I just got around to trying the UNi Xonar drivers with my Essence STX. My headphones work great, but I can't switch to the line out using the "2 Speaker" analog setting in the Xonar control interface so that I can use my desktop speakers. Instead, there is a click when "2 Speakers" is enabled and the gain gets boosted on my headphones.
> 
> I'm sure I'm missing something stupid. Any suggestions where to look?
> 
> Windows 7 64-bit. v1.61 UNi Xonar


 
  That also happened with me. Is there any fix?


----------



## harryyeo

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> That also happened with me. Is there any fix?


 
   
   
  This is a known issue with the 1.6x drivers.
   
  Best way to avoid is to reinstall with 1.53 drivers.


----------



## cel4145

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> This is a known issue with the 1.6x drivers.
> 
> Best way to avoid is to reinstall with 1.53 drivers.


 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Dezign

I have some questions regarding this card. I am using both headphones and 2.1 speakers for it.I I've read lots of guides, and while they mostly agree on channel setup etc, they disagree on other things. So I decided to make this post in hope for people that know to answer. I am looking to get the optimal quality, with all the surround functions enabled.
   
   
*Speaker setup*
  1. Settings I use for watching videos: PCM 48 KHz, 2 channels, dolby virtual speaker. Is this correct, should I use HIFI?
   
  2. I use same settings for playing games, but with HIFI enabled, is this correct to produce the most true and clear sound with all surround options?
   
  3. I have HIFI enabled and 2 channel mode for listening to music, is this correct to produce the most true and clear sound?
   
   
*Headphone setup*
  4. Settings I use for watching videos: PCM 48 KHz, 6 channels, HIFI on. I've tried both Dolby Headphone and HIFI, and I really don't know which gives the best quality. What do you guys think? Also, does the use of HIFI prevent surround sound or ANY feature at all, from a movie with 5.1 sound for example? Whats the real difference between those, preference?
   
  5. For playing games, I use the same settings as for movies, PCM 48 KHz, 6 channels, HIFI on. Are these settings correct? I really think that HIFI produces a more rich and chrisp sound than Dolby Headphone does, what do you think? Also, is there ANYTHING at all in terms of audio positioning or quality, that is not utilized by using HIFI? Do I have to use Dolby Headphone to get all the sound features from a game? Should I use more than 48 KHz for games like WoW, Crysis 2, and BF3?
   
  6. For listening to music, I set the channels to 2, and use the HIFI mode, with 48 KHz. Is this correct for producing the most accurate sound?
   
   
  I am generally not sure what the difference between Dolby Headphones/Dolby Speakers are. Is it a matter of preference? I've found that Dolby seems to be better for the speakers, and HIFI much better for headphones. Do you guys agree on this? Is there any real difference in audio quality, positioning etc?
   
  Would be fantastic if you could explain these things to me. Thanks a lot.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





dezign said:


> I have some questions regarding this card. I am using both headphones and 2.1 speakers for it.I I've read lots of guides, and while they mostly agree on channel setup etc, they disagree on other things. So I decided to make this post in hope for people that know to answer. I am looking to get the optimal quality, with all the surround functions enabled.
> 
> 
> *Speaker setup*
> ...


 
   
  Hello Dezign! I see this is your first post, so welcome to these parts!!!!! I've tried my best to help below! One thing I would emphasize, is to play around with the settings yourself. It's all about what you enjoy the most, not necessarily what other people think sounds best to them.
   
  1. This is a personal choice. If you enjoy the sound of the dolby virtual speaker, then use that. If you like the sound of the 'hi-fi' mode, then use that. This is definitely a personal choice. 
   
  2. Using games I usually do hifi enabled. There's a video somewhere, where a user showed the dolby headphone was better for placing sounds around you, but I can't find it atm. I don't think there is a way to pass the dolby headphone through digital out... someone correct me if I'm wrong because I'd love this setting! 
   
  3. Yes, that should give you the most clear and unaltered sound overall.
   
  4. The dolby headphone produces an altered sound to recreate a speaker environment. This is another one of those just listen to them and pick which one you like.
   
  5. Hifi mode should sound that way. The dolby digital is processing the sound to some extent which will lead to some degrading in SQ, although it should be small. 
   
  6. Yes it is. 
   
  Definitely should be the case. What headphones do you have? Usually headphones show much more detail, so doing the dolby headphone settings will show the sound quality being reduced. Your speakers probably don't have the high resolution of the headphones, so you don't notice the loss in quality!


----------



## Dezign

Thanks for the reply Elwappo!
   
  I use these speakers: Harman Kardon Soundsticks III, and these headphones: Sennheiser HD 595 (should I use any gain for these, and what does gain really do - just increase the volume, or make the quality better?).
   
  The question I still have in mind is, say that a movie has a 5.1 audio output (which I select in VLC), will HiFi mode playback 5.1? Do I need Dolby Headphone enabled for the surround 5.1 sound? In theory, it shouldn't, right? Since HiFi mode from what I've read is unprocessed signals only, which would equal to 5.1? Is this the same in games?
   
  So all in all, HiFi and Dolby Headphone is 100% a matter of taste? If this is the case then the choice is simple for me, since HiFi is much better imo. But I want to make sure that I'm not missing out on some special "sound effect" feature that I'm not aware of such as surround sound or positioning?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dezign said:


> Thanks for the reply Elwappo!
> 
> I use these speakers: Harman Kardon Soundsticks III, and these headphones: Sennheiser HD 595 (should I use any gain for these, and what does gain really do - just increase the volume, or make the quality better?).
> 
> ...


 
  I believe most movies come with Dolby audio tracks, so to me it seems you want Dolby Headphone enabled.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





dezign said:


> Thanks for the reply Elwappo!
> 
> I use these speakers: Harman Kardon Soundsticks III, and these headphones: Sennheiser HD 595 (should I use any gain for these, and what does gain really do - just increase the volume, or make the quality better?).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Definitely the case with the HK soundsticks VS Sennheiser HD595. Those sennheisers are far more revealing than the speakers. You don't really need to use gain unless you want the volume to be louder than the maximum. It just boosts the power to that headphone out. 
   
  Before I jump into the audio output I should clarify something (I'm not sure of your audio knowledge, and if you are knowledgeable I'm not trying to be condescending). 5.1 means there's 5 individual channels for speakers and 1 channel for the subwoofer (L, C, R, RL, RR). Stereo sound for headphones means there's only 2 channels (L, R). The headphone out can only output 2 channels (L, R), as well as the RCA outputs on the back.
   
  Your question about 5.1 going to 2.0 is one I'm afraid I cannot answer, because there's a lot of software that's happening in that. I would suspect that 5.1 would only go to the Digital Out on the back of the ST. I think the software would then take the L and R from VLC and send that directly out (in HiFi) or do it's Dolby headphone from the L and R and send that out to the headphones (L,R only). 
   
  Yes, HiFi vs Dolby is really about taste. HiFi should sound much better when listening purely to music (more detailed sound), but some people may enjoy it for movies and such (it's kind of fun to crank up the volume on action movies with that setting). You're exactly right when you said special "sound effect". The dolby headphone is a "special sound effect" that tried to make your headphones sound like you're listening in a room with speakers. It's really about your taste, and it sounds like you're pretty spot on when you say it doesn't sound good at all for music listening 
   
  Also, I found that video here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/557826/question-about-dolby-headphone-in-essence-stx-and-how-it-works-with-headphone
  I personally don't game with dolby on, because I find the hifi mode to be more accurate. But I've got some expensive amplifiers that really help with the sound positioning, so to each their own!


----------



## Jademalo

Hey, I've got a question about Opamps
   
  I'm a little confused why there are three. I'm guessing that the third one up front is for something specific to the white and red out.
   
  Is it that one is for the left channel, and one is for the right? If so, that leaves me a little bit confused. I know that some Opamps are single channel and some are dual channel, and that this card requires dual channel opamps. Now, since there are two.. doesn't that mean single channels would suffice?
   
  As you can probably tell, I'm a bit lost. If the Opamps are dual channel - why do you need two? Is there a difference between dual channel Opamps and stereo? If so, is that why there are two - for the stereo? If not - do they work together in a manner akin to SLI or something, alternating signal? (I literally have no idea how they work lol) Or, is it that the red/white out uses one, and the headphone out uses the other?
   
  I'm also a bit curious about the third one - what exactly does it do? I know its something spesific to the White/Red out, but I don't know what exactly.
   
   
   
  I'm willing to learn, but I'm finding conflicting sources and it's difficult to nail down an exact answer. I hope the question is phrased alright - It's mainly my confusion as to why there are two of the same Opamp, and the difference between single channel and dual channel opamps.
   
  Currently I'm looking at getting myself two LME49720NA and a LM6172IN, and giving them a whirl to see if they suit my tastes.
   
  And help would be appreciated, thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jademalo said:


> Hey, I've got a question about Opamps
> I'm a little confused why there are three. I'm guessing that the third one up front is for something specific to the white and red out.
> Is it that one is for the left channel, and one is for the right? If so, that leaves me a little bit confused. I know that some Opamps are single channel and some are dual channel, and that this card requires dual channel opamps. Now, since there are two.. doesn't that mean single channels would suffice?
> As you can probably tell, I'm a bit lost. If the Opamps are dual channel - why do you need two? Is there a difference between dual channel Opamps and stereo? If so, is that why there are two - for the stereo? If not - do they work together in a manner akin to SLI or something, alternating signal? (I literally have no idea how they work lol) Or, is it that the red/white out uses one, and the headphone out uses the other?
> ...


 
  The 2 matching op-amp sockets (JRC 2114 op-amp), referred to as "I/V" sockets and are used by the headphones
  and the third socket is call the "buffer" socket.
  And all three sockets are used for the line-out (RCAs).
  Why they are all three dual channel? I have no idea, but you need to have two channels for each socket.
  Technically it's better to use two single channel op-amps per socket (less crosstalk?).
  I'm currently using 6 AD797BR (SOIC) single channel op-amps in my Essence STX, the AD797BRs are soldered to a dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
  DIP-8 is a socket (removable op-amp)
  SOIC need to be soldered


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





dezign said:


> Thanks for the reply Elwappo!
> 
> I use these speakers: Harman Kardon Soundsticks III, and these headphones: Sennheiser HD 595 (should I use any gain for these, and what does gain really do - just increase the volume, or make the quality better?).
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  No, you will not get full surround sound with dolby in movies. Its just a software illusion which changes the frequency responses of sounds and add various effect like echo/reverberation.  The only way for you to get surround sound with headphones is by listening to binaural recordings. Sadly, none of the movies and almost none of the music is recorded that way, and the music that is, sounds worse than normal stereo in some cases.
  Listen to these binaural recordings (without dolby turned on) with your headphones, in HD and quite loud, so its at realistic volume levels as you'd hear it in reality.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7zf30z_cg
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjeN4iwDb14
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVn4c0woig0
   
  This gives you an idea of what headphones CAN sound like with properly recorded stuff, how great the sense of space and directionality can be, and also makes you realize how bad most music or movies actually sound on headphones.


----------



## chewy4

I think dolby headphone brings an immense improvement in games, haven't tried movies though.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I think dolby headphone brings an immense improvement in games, haven't tried movies though.


 
   
   
  Yea it does, but its still not as good as it could be.


----------



## Jademalo

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The 2 matching op-amp sockets (JRC 2114 op-amp), referred to as "I/V" sockets and are used by the headphones
> and the third socket is call the "buffer" socket.
> And all three sockets are used for the line-out (RCAs).
> Why they are all three dual channel? I have no idea, but you need to have two channels for each socket.
> ...


 
   
  Could not have asked for a better answer. Thanks a ton!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *PurpleAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Why they are all three dual channel? I have no idea, but you need to have two channels for each socket.
> Technically it's better to use two single channel op-amps per socket (less crosstalk?).


 
   
  The reason why there are three dual op amps is that the I/V stage is balanced, and needs two amplifiers per channel (click on the picture below for simplified schematics of one channel). The buffers on both the line and headphone outputs are differential amplifiers, and convert the balanced signal to single ended. Therefore, each NJM2114D is used entirely for a single channel (left or right). However, even in the LM4562 buffer, crosstalk is far below a level anyone could hear. According to Stereophile, _"channel separation (not shown) was superb, at 120dB at all frequencies"_ on the line output.


----------



## Jademalo

Hey guys, thanks a ton for those answers! =]
   
  Anyway, I've got another question, and this one has to do with background hiss.
  When I have the card set to 44.1KHz, there is a noticable background hiss when no sound is playing. However, with 48/96/192, there is none.
   
  ..And before I've even posted it, it's stopped. Bizzare.
  EDIT: And now it's started again, but it's completely random if there will be hiss or not, it can change whenever I change the Channel settings or the KHz settings.
   
   
  Also, I keep getting the error saying the extra power isn't plugged in, but it is, and the card seems to work perfectly.. I can't test the HPA since i've only got 38ohm headphones though.
   
  Is it just required for the HPA?
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## ryssen

Any one tried the LT1363 as I/V opamp?Is it any problem getting them stable?
  I found out that LT1363 is a single opamp.. So that wont work.. sorry..


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Jademalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Anyway, I've got another question, and this one has to do with background hiss.
> When I have the card set to 44.1KHz, there is a noticable background hiss when no sound is playing. However, with 48/96/192, there is none.


 
    
  It is a known issue on the Xonar family sound cards, 44.1, 88.2, and 176.4 kHz sample rates are noisier than others. This problem is the worst in the case of the headphone output of the STX, because the noise is further amplified, and the volume and gain controls are digital (i.e. the noise does not become quieter when you reduce the volume or the gain, it is always at the maximum level). With sensitive headphones, the noise can be audible. On the line output and using an external amplifier, it is less of an issue, because the analog volume control on the amplifier makes it possible to run the DAC at or near full digital volume, maximizing its dynamic range.
   

  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Jademalo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Is it just required for the HPA?


 
   
  If you mean the external power, then it is needed not only for the headphone amplifier, but also other analog components on the card.


----------



## Jademalo

Ok, thanks!
   
  It seems that ASIO isn't working without the External power either, so I'm gonna have to dive back into my case to try and fix that. Also, is it worth just leaving the card on 48KHz to counter the background noise, or should I keep it at 44.1 for music?
  I didn't notice the hiss when I had something playing at more than half volume, but if I've got it on quiet I can sort of hear it through my headphones.
   
  It's still a 200% improvement to my onboard's noise, that thing in comparison sounded like a jet lol.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jademalo said:


> Ok, thanks!
> 
> It seems that ASIO isn't working without the External power either, so I'm gonna have to dive back into my case to try and fix that. Also, is it worth just leaving the card on 48KHz to counter the background noise, or should I keep it at 44.1 for music?
> I didn't notice the hiss when I had something playing at more than half volume, but if I've got it on quiet I can sort of hear it through my headphones.
> ...


 
  I just leave my sample rate at 96Khz


----------



## WiR3D

guys. for settings - check the wiki!!!! 
   
   
  Quote: 





ryssen said:


> Any one tried the LT1363 as I/V opamp?Is it any problem getting them stable?
> I found out that LT1363 is a single opamp.. So that wont work.. sorry..


 
  It was on my list, but it has some high DC offset, which is not so good. So decided not to use it. Some people really really enjoyed it.
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I just leave my sample rate at 96Khz


 
  meh i use 48kHz. But then I dont have any 96kHz content/


----------



## Jademalo

Thanks, I'll just leave it on 48 =]
  Right guys, last question - I promise!
   
  I seem to be getting an ASIO crash when using 44.1KHz with ableton live 8.3
   
  Using http://www.tropicalcoder.com/ASIOTestSigGen.htm seems to be fine, on 44.1 and 48. Ableton however, crashes after 2 seconds or so on 44.1, but is perfect on 48.
  Is this a problem with ableton, or a problem with the card?
   
  I also can't change any of the settings in the asio hardware config box, is that normal? It seems a bit pointless if you cant lol.


----------



## e6600

hey all
  cool hearing about the 44100 white noise issue.  my cards now at 48000
   
  but the problem im having is this clicking sound every time i change music on foobar.  it doesnt happen if i dont change songs myself
  i can get rid of it using a dsp resampler (sox mod) but im likely losing quality using the software resampler over the xonar's hardware one
  is there any other way of getting rid of it?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *e6600* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> but im likely losing quality using the software resampler over the xonar's hardware one


 
   
  If you set the sample rate to 48000 Hz to eliminate the noise, you are already using software sample rate conversion that is either in the C-Media/ASUS drivers, or Windows. However, software resampling can be (although it often is not) sufficiently well implemented on current PCs that it does not really lose quality compared to running the hardware at 44100 Hz.


----------



## spacedskunk

I'm reading through this massive thread now and trying to pick out an answer about op amps on the Essence ST.
   
  I bought 2x LME49720NA's replacing the stock and left the other stock, and it was a mistake in reality since I've got AKG Q701's and even though I'm finding the massive soundstage and crisp clear mids/highs the loss of bass has ruined it somewhat.
   
  What op amp set would you guys recommend for these headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





spacedskunk said:


> I'm reading through this massive thread now and trying to pick out an answer about op amps on the Essence ST.
> 
> I bought 2x LME49720NA's replacing the stock and left the other stock, and it was a mistake in reality since I've got AKG Q701's and even though I'm finding the massive soundstage and crisp clear mids/highs the loss of bass has ruined it somewhat.
> 
> What op amp set would you guys recommend for these headphones?


 
  I like my AD797BRs, $60 for 3 (6 op-amps mounted on three adapters).
  The LME49990 seem well liked, $60 for 3 (6 op-amp chips mounted).


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





spacedskunk said:


> I'm reading through this massive thread now and trying to pick out an answer about op amps on the Essence ST.
> 
> I bought 2x LME49720NA's replacing the stock and left the other stock, and it was a mistake in reality since I've got AKG Q701's and even though I'm finding the massive soundstage and crisp clear mids/highs the loss of bass has ruined it somewhat.
> 
> What op amp set would you guys recommend for these headphones?


 
  PurpleAngel's recommendations are good as always. and the AD797 has particular synergy with my AKG K242HD, clarity is astounding, but they are unstable, and may pack up eventually. Small price to pay. Also if you want a smoother presentation, then THS4032. But the AD797 is hard to beat.
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I like my AD797BRs, $60 for 3 (6 op-amps mounted on three adapters).
> The LME49990 seem well liked, $60 for 3 (6 op-amp chips mounted).


 
   
  Quote: 





e6600 said:


> hey all
> cool hearing about the 44100 white noise issue.  my cards now at 48000
> 
> but the problem im having is this clicking sound every time i change music on foobar.  it doesnt happen if i dont change songs myself
> ...


 
  I actually trust a SW resampler more then the driver one of the Xonar, a good SW resampler that is. The one built into the Bass library that musicbee uses is good, no idea about foobar - if someone can recommend a good one I will update the wiki. 
  Quote: 





jademalo said:


> Thanks, I'll just leave it on 48 =]
> Right guys, last question - I promise!
> 
> I seem to be getting an ASIO crash when using 44.1KHz with ableton live 8.3
> ...


 
  upsample to 48kHz. Its probably a problem with the drivers knowing asus. And you can change the settings for ASIO, whilst its not in use (aka no playback)


----------



## gtiboy

I use 3 x LME49720HA in my STX and it sounds great, much better separation of instruments and more clarity.
   
  How would the STX sound if I was to install LME49710HA in the buffer while still using the 2 x LME49720HA in the IV?


----------



## stv014

Here is a short comparison of the hardware 44.1 kHz sample rate, and resampling to 48 kHz in foobar2000 with the PPHS resampler, and foo_dsp_resampler_0.8.0.zip from here. All the tests were performed under the following conditions:
  - loopback from the 1/4" headphone output jack to the line input
  - WASAPI output, 24 bit resolution
  - sound card configuration: 64-300 Ω gain setting, -6.5 dB volume for tests 1 and 2, -4.5 dB volume for tests 3 to 6, "sharp roll-off" DAC filter, 64x oversampling
  - foobar2000 volume: 0 dB for tests 1 and 2, -2.02 dB for tests 3 to 6
   
  For the first set of tests, I used a 7-bit (127 samples) MLS at 25% of the 0 dBFS level. This is a periodic waveform with a fundamental frequency of 347.24 Hz, and all harmonics have the same amplitude. So, the spectrum of the output of a mathematically "ideal" converter would have peaks at equal magnitude at integer multiples of 347.24 Hz up to 22050 Hz, and nothing else. However, a slower roll-off has the advantage of less ringing. Basically, the filter used has to make a trade-off between imaging/aliasing, rolled off high frequency response, and ringing. The SoX resampler also allows the choice between a linear or a minimum phase filter; the latter avoids pre-ringing, but has a non-flat phase response (the group delay increases at the highest frequencies). The hardware DAC filter, the PPHS resampler, and the default setting of the SoX converter are all linear phase. Cirrus Logic DACs (such as the CS4398 on the Xonar D1 and DX) tend to use a minimum phase filter. Differences in the filtering are not that important, though, converters that have a flat response and no significant aliasing in the audio frequency range are likely to sound the same in practice.
   
  The results, from left to right and top to bottom:
  1: 44.1 kHz sample rate, no conversion
  2: PPHS resampler, 44.1 -> 48 kHz conversion, "ultra mode" is disabled
  3: PPHS resampler, "ultra mode" is enabled
  4: SoX resampler, 44.1 -> 48 kHz conversion, default settings ("normal" quality, 95% passband, "allow aliasing" disabled, 50% phase response)
  5: SoX resampler, "best" quality
  6: SoX resampler, "best" quality, "allow aliasing" is enabled
   
  1, 2:
    
  3, 4:
    
  5, 6:
    
   
  Only the PPHS converter in normal mode has noticeable aliasing, but it is still at a fairly low and likely not audible level. The PPHS "ultra" mode is rolled off very steeply, and it therefore rings the most. The increased noise floor in the hardware 44.1 kHz mode is quite apparent.
   
  A second set of tests used two high frequency sine waves mixed in a way that the peak amplitude of the reconstructed analog signal is about +2 dBFS, to check for clipping in the DAC or the sample rate converters. The numbering of the graphs is the same as above. I did not include the last three pictures, as they do not look significantly different from the third one.
  Without resampling, there is no major problem, although note that there would be clipping on the line output at the maximum volume. The second graph is the only case when I run the sample rate conversion in foobar2000 at 0 dB volume, and the output is indeed clipped. Decreasing the foobar2000 volume by 2 dB, and increasing the hardware volume by the same amount fixed the clipping. The effect might not be audible on music, but the workaround does not really involve a trade-off either, as the noise floor on the headphone output is not increased noticeably.
   
  1, 2:
    
  3:


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> _snip_


 
  Bravo stv014!!! Again a wonderful job, as always, and above my head somewhat. So the conclusion is? 
   
  Actually wait, the cut off should be 22050Hz? So just based on where they end, graphs 3 and 4 look best. But my question is, in graph 3 is the HW output set to 48kHz or 44.1kHz (thus leaving the drivers to do the resampling) which would be quite a surprise. 
   
  Also in graph one, Is the HW output set to 48kHz or 44.1kHz (basically using HW resampling, which would be quite horrendous, or is it demonstrating the 44.1kHz@24bit bug?)
   
  Now I'm even more curious to see how the Bass library resampler of MusicBee performs.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Actually wait, the cut off should be 22050Hz? So just based on where they end, graphs 3 and 4 look best. But my question is, in graph 3 is the HW output set to 48kHz or 44.1kHz (thus leaving the drivers to do the resampling) which would be quite a surprise.
> 
> Also in graph one, Is the HW output set to 48kHz or 44.1kHz (basically using HW resampling, which would be quite horrendous, or is it demonstrating the 44.1kHz@24bit bug?)


 
   
  The hardware is running at 44.1 kHz only in the case of graph 1, and 48 kHz for all others, which resample the 44.1 kHz input file using the foobar2000 "PPHS" and "SoX" sample rate converters.


----------



## WiR3D

so then the best one is 
   
*3: PPHS resampler, 44.1kHz->48kHz "ultra mode" is enabled*
   
   
followed by, surprisingly.
   
*4: SoX resampler, 44.1 -> 48 kHz conversion, default settings ("normal" quality, 95% passband, "allow aliasing" disabled, 50% phase response)*


----------



## stv014

The filtering in the SoX resampler is configurable, and can be made similar to the PPHS "ultra" mode if you increase the passband setting. However, the default should be fine. I recommend reading the documentation of the "rate" effect in the SoX manual for more information, and the HydrogenAudio threads I linked earlier.


----------



## spacedskunk

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I like my AD797BRs, $60 for 3 (6 op-amps mounted on three adapters).
> The LME49990 seem well liked, $60 for 3 (6 op-amp chips mounted).


 
   
  Thanks for your advice on this, I have to admit I'm struggling to find any of these in the UK. On eBay all I'm finding is this;
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mod-2x-AD797BR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-NE5534-/350471427078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5199b99406
   
  Thing is I can't solder myself do I'll have to get them ready to plug in.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The filtering in the SoX resampler is configurable, and can be made similar to the PPHS "ultra" mode if you increase the passband setting. However, the default should be fine. I recommend reading the documentation of the "rate" effect in the SoX manual for more information, and the HydrogenAudio threads I linked earlier.


 
   
  The reason I ask is I use MusicBee not Foobar. I'm just trying to find the bottom line for the noobs that pop in here and ask for settings (i.e. I want to update the wiki)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





spacedskunk said:


> Thanks for your advice on this, I have to admit I'm struggling to find any of these in the UK. On eBay all I'm finding is this;
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mod-2x-AD797BR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-NE5534-/350471427078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5199b99406
> Thing is I can't solder myself do I'll have to get them ready to plug in.


 
  AD797BR
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-dual-op-/261100530695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccacdec07
  LME49990
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190682726763?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6593816b


----------



## geoxile

Quick question, did the STX get discontinued? Can't find it at any big vendors.


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





geoxile said:


> Quick question, did the STX get discontinued? Can't find it at any big vendors.


 
  How hard did you look?
   
http://www.amazon.com/PCI-Express-XONAR-ESSENCE-STX-90-YAA0C0-0UAN00Z/dp/B001OV789U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348909173&sr=8-1&keywords=asus+xonar+stx


----------



## geoxile

Oops, thought those were just all marketplace vendors. But it looks like Tigerdirect/CC has it


----------



## PurpleAngel

Newegg is out of stock on the Essence STX and has it listed as DISCONTINUED.
  Maybe Asus has decided to stop making the Essence STX in favor of the Phoebus.


----------



## chewy4

I would hope not... I've heard Xear surround is terrible in comparison to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I would hope not... I've heard Xear surround is terrible in comparison to Dolby Headphone.


 
  I believe the Phoebus comes with the latest version of Dolby Headphone (whatever that might be).


----------



## cel4145

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Newegg is out of stock on the Essence STX and has it listed as DISCONTINUED.
> Maybe Asus has decided to stop making the Essence STX in favor of the Phoebus.


 
   
  That would be pretty sad if Asus discontinued the STX without a new model that is similarly priced and performs better. Doesn't seem to make sense. 
   
  I just revived a thread on the ASUSTek forums where a discontinued notice from vendors was discussed a long time ago. Let's see if we get an answer.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I believe the Phoebus comes with the latest version of Dolby Headphone (whatever that might be).


 
  It comes with Dolby Home Theater,  not Dolby Headphone.
   
  Which maybe works just as good, but I'm not sure. It's not specifically designed for headphones but speakers as well so I can't see it working as good but maybe I'm wrong.
   
  At any rate, the specs for the Phoebus aren't as good so discontinuing the STX would make no sense from Asus's perspective. It's a very well selling card. It's also in stock at Amazon now and it wasn't a few weeks ago.
   
  Most likely just a mistake from Newegg...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> It comes with Dolby Home Theater,  not Dolby Headphone.
> Which maybe works just as good, but I'm not sure. It's not specifically designed for headphones but speakers as well so I can't see it working as good but maybe I'm wrong.
> At any rate, the specs for the Phoebus aren't as good so discontinuing the STX would make no sense from Asus's perspective. It's a very well selling card. It's also in stock at Amazon now and it wasn't a few weeks ago.
> Most likely just a mistake from Newegg...


 
  I think the name "Dolby Home Theater" is to make the same old Dolby features sound new, with a newly designed Asus control panel.
  The spec for the Phoebus are not as good as the STX's, but which leads me to guess the Phoebus is cheaper to make.
  Which means Asus can drop the price of the Phoebus and sell more cards.
  People always talk about quality, but end up going for the best price.
  Look at Creative labs, they have removed hardware features on their newer sound cards audio processor (Recon3D) to get the price down.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Newegg is out of stock on the Essence STX and has it listed as DISCONTINUED.
> Maybe Asus has decided to stop making the Essence STX in favor of the Phoebus.


 

 This is a very open question, as Asus® USA has the XONAR® Essence™ One, ST, and STX all available, but not the ROG™ XONAR® Phoebus™.  Neither Asus® nor Creative® has mention of the new Game Blaster® on a Website, even though it was both companies' co-development.


----------



## KonaBear

Not sure if you have already or not, but ebay still has some STX on sale


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> It comes with Dolby Home Theater,  not Dolby Headphone.


 
  Dolby Home Theater is a collective term, instead of flooding the front of amps with 40 different Dolby stickers its just one, which incorporates all the tech in different tiers (v3, v4) 
   
  I actually like that way of doing things.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I think the name "Dolby Home Theater" is to make the same old Dolby features sound new, with a newly designed Asus control panel.
> The spec for the Phoebus are not as good as the STX's, but which leads me to guess the Phoebus is cheaper to make.
> Which means Asus can drop the price of the Phoebus and sell more cards.
> People always talk about quality, but end up going for the best price.
> Look at Creative labs, they have removed hardware features on their newer sound cards audio processor (Recon3D) to get the price down.


 
    
   
  Quote:


wir3d said:


> Dolby Home Theater is a collective term, instead of flooding the front of amps with 40 different Dolby stickers its just one, which incorporates all the tech in different tiers (v3, v4)
> 
> I actually like that way of doing things.


 
   
  That would make sense that it's something that includes DH.
   
  I dunno though, STX still seems like too popular and good of a product to discontinue out of nowhere, regardless of how cheap the Phoebus is to make.
   
   

 Anyways, to drag back an earlier conversation here about the HE-400's and the STX... Asgard does blow away the STX with those cans according to my ears. In a lot of the ways I said it wouldn't make a lot of sense for amps to do. 
   
  While the HE-400's do still sound great on the STX, and completely unamped for that matter, I feel like the Asgard brings them up to high end, and for some reason kills the fatigue almost completely for me. So thanks for pushing me in that direction.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> Anyways, to drag back an earlier conversation here about the HE-400's and the STX... Asgard does blow away the STX with those cans according to my ears. In a lot of the ways I said it wouldn't make a lot of sense for amps to do.
> 
> While the HE-400's do still sound great on the STX, and completely unamped for that matter, I feel like the Asgard brings them up to high end, and for some reason kills the fatigue almost completely for me. So thanks for pushing me in that direction.


 
  Ever play with the opamps, I never liked the stock ones, too harsh in the treble and too bloated bass? And the reason the Asgard does better is because the STX is designed for higher ohm loads, it struggles a bit with low impedance cans. It does not play will with my Denons for multiple reasons.


----------



## crompers

Hi all, new here
   
  I have this soundcard and have been looking for a good pair of cans to go with it, dont want to spend more than £100. I game a lot, listen to a wide variety of music but mainly rock/metal and some hip hop. I currently have a set of Steelseries Siberia which are just not cutting it. I have been looking at the Sennheiser 518's which seem good value for money but will they go well with this card? Definitely want an open set of circumaural cans, noise leakage is not a problem and I appreciate a wide soundstage.


----------



## Kjeldsen

Hi Crompers,
   
  Welcome. Here's a huge thread about headphones for gaming (primarily), with tons of awesome reviews. You may find some tips inthere.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-29-2012-he-400-edited


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Ever play with the opamps, I never liked the stock ones, too harsh in the treble and too bloated bass? And the reason the Asgard does better is because the STX is designed for higher ohm loads, it struggles a bit with low impedance cans. It does not play will with my Denons for multiple reasons.


 
  Nah  I never really played around with opamps, I didn't mind the sound signature so I decided not to mess with it.
   
  But yeah I think the STX and Asgard do actually have the same output power when the STX is set to very high gain, but the Asgard does it at less than an ohm impedence, and 4db less gain. Makes a big difference apparently.


----------



## crompers

Thanks for the guide, do you think the card would drive some DT770 80 ohms ok?


----------



## stv014

Yes; an amplifier with a lower output impedance would be even better, but it only makes a small difference. You could also use the 250 Ω version, in case you avoided that for being worried that the card cannot drive it. It would work fine, although the coiled cord may be somewhat inconvenient if you want to use the rear headphone jack on the card without an extension cable.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





crompers said:


> Hi all, new here
> 
> I have this soundcard and have been looking for a good pair of cans to go with it, dont want to spend more than £100. I game a lot, listen to a wide variety of music but mainly rock/metal and some hip hop. I currently have a set of Steelseries Siberia which are just not cutting it. I have been looking at the Sennheiser 518's which seem good value for money but will they go well with this card? Definitely want an open set of circumaural cans, noise leakage is not a problem and I appreciate a wide soundstage.


 
  The Essence STX is just fine at driving DT770 Pro 80-Ohm headphones.


----------



## crompers

Thanks for the replies, I may go with the 250 ohm set as I doubt I'll be leaving the house in them much. Does anyone have experience of both the senn 518s and the 770's? I'm guessing the 770's are the better sounding set. Tempted by the 990's too but I've got to draw the line somewhere!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





crompers said:


> Thanks for the replies, I may go with the 250 ohm set as I doubt I'll be leaving the house in them much. Does anyone have experience of both the Senn 518s and the 770's? I'm guessing the 770's are the better sounding set. Tempted by the 990's too but I've got to draw the line somewhere!


 
  As I prefer open headphones, I will use my DT990 Pro 250-Ohm over the DT770 Pro 250-Ohm.
  I also prefer (a little) the DT770 Pro 250-Ohm over the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.
  I believe the Senn HD518 is a good choice for unamped source(s) or motherboard built-in audio.


----------



## crompers

Hmm I guess the 990's aren't much more expensive, I'll have a think and stop threadjacking. thanks guys


----------



## vegards

I got three DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER in the mail here the other day, and I'm wondering if you guys would exchange all 3 opamps for those if you were using a HE-400 headphone? Or would you recommend another combo? Really loving them so far, mine is rev3, and they sounded very bright at first, but with Dolby headphone enabled they are excellent. A huge upgrade from DT 770 80 ohm!


----------



## brdnhigh

hey guys i recently got a asus xonar ST..was wondering if someone could recommend me a set of really nice headphones.  ill be using for gaming movies and music thanks..price range about 400


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





brdnhigh said:


> Hey guys I recently got a Asus Xonar Essence ST..was wondering if someone could recommend me a set of really nice headphones.  ill be using for gaming movies and music thanks..price range about 400


 
  Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 250-Ohm or Premium 600-Ohm.


----------



## vegards

Tried with three DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER that I got in the mail from frugalphile, but to me I feel like the standard opams with Dolby enabled sound better or little more clean? With the 49990 i feel they are better with no Dolby enabled, kinda weird.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


vegards said:


> Tried with three DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER that I got in the mail from frugalphile, but to me I feel like the standard opams with Dolby enabled sound better or little more clean? With the 49990 i feel they are better with no Dolby enabled, kinda weird.


 
   
  In your opinion, how does the LME49990 change the sound in comparison to the stock opamps?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





vegards said:


> Tried with three DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER that I got in the mail from frugalphile, but to me I feel like the standard opams with Dolby enabled sound better or little more clean? With the 49990 i feel they are better with no Dolby enabled, kinda weird.


 
   
  Dolby headphone degrades sound quality so much it may not even be a fair comparison.


----------



## vegards

sylverant said:


> Quote:
> 
> In your opinion, how does the LME49990 change the sound in comparison to the stock opamps?




Making the sound more neutral, the bass isn't as prominent, the bass is still very good though, it has a sweeter edge to it. I have a feeling the LME49990 is a better long term solution. I switched my headphones earpads as well from pleather to velour now, and I think I prefer the LME49990 without Dolby. What I enjoyed with the standard opams with Dolby enabled was how fun they sounded. I really need to change them back to see if this was the case. With standard opams and no Dolby, they sounded too bright.

Right now the LME49990 are sounding very good. Only problem is that I can hear some rattling and crackling on the sound with certain tracks, maybe its just my HE-400 rev3 acting up, I've already contacted HIFiMAN about getting them replaced because some audible peak, see here.

Anyone else using the LME49990 and can comment on them? How did they change the sound for you?


----------



## Jademalo

EDIT: I've whopped my original questions into a quote rather than delete them, but after a night's worth of asking around, merciless digging, and finally discovering correct terminology, I'm happy with my understanding of how everything works =]
   
  Quote: 





> Hey guys - I've got a question about volume.
> 
> I've got this card with stock Opamps currently, and a pair of Audio Technica ATH-M50s. If I'm playing an average song at max volume on windows with the headphone amp on 0, what kind of decibels will I be reaching?
> 
> ...


----------



## WeirdChild

Hi my name is alex, new to this forum, STX owner, and thanks to the useful information I found on this thread I took a leap and ordered some op amps:
   
 (3) DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER   
 (2) LME49720NA    
Will post my results after I have the chance to test them.


----------



## vegards

weirdchild said:


> Hi my name is alex, new to this forum, STX owner, and thanks to the useful information I found on this thread I took a leap and ordered some op amps:
> 
> (3) DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER
> 
> ...




I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the 49990! Did you order from frugalphile@ebay as well? What headphones are you using with your STX?


----------



## WeirdChild

Quote: 





vegards said:


> I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the 49990! Did you order from frugalphile@ebay as well? What headphones are you using with your STX?


 
  Well, I have ordinary Sony cans, Audioengine A5+ speakers, this setup allows me to edit video just fiune, been looking for a good deal on Sennheiser HD 650 and plan to get them before october ends (bday wish 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). Yes I got the opamps from frugalphile, he is a very realiable seller. Getting better headphones is mandatory, I do freelance work at night and speakers shake the walls a bit, neighbors will complain any day.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





weirdchild said:


> Hi my name is alex, new to this forum, STX owner, and thanks to the useful information I found on this thread I took a leap and ordered some op amps:
> 
> (3) DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER
> (2) LME49720NA
> Will post my results after I have the chance to test them.


 
  I ended up grabbing a pair of LME49720NA and really think they improve over stock. They are very light, but I think they are a tad on the cold side of what I'd like. I only put them in the I/V and not the buffer (I think the buffer already has that opamp or something close....)


----------



## repman244

I could be wrong here, but if you are using the headphone amp you don't need to change the buffer, only the I/V.
  Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I ended up grabbing a pair of LME49720NA and really think they improve over stock. They are very light, but I think they are a tad on the cold side of what I'd like. I only put them in the I/V and not the buffer (I think the buffer already has that opamp or something close....)


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> I could be wrong here, but if you are using the headphone amp you don't need to change the buffer, only the I/V.


 
   
   
  Yes, you are correct. I changed from OPA2137, which I would advise everyone to stay away from. They have way too much distortion.


----------



## WeirdChild

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> I could be wrong here, but if you are using the headphone amp you don't need to change the buffer, only the I/V.


 
   
  Yes, I could verify that with my newbie mistake when I got a LME49710HA single opamp and used it in the buffer socket, RCA out sounded very bad and I was afraid I screwed something, but when I checked the HP out everything was untouched. 
   
  Edit: STX only works with dual op amps, thats why.


----------



## cel4145

Getting the SR225i to use with my STX, and I already use HFI-780 and ATH-AD900X with it as well. Because of the lower impedance of these phones, does it make sense to get an O2 headphone amp to use with the STX?
   
  I run the line out on my STX to an HK 3390 receiver for use with passive speakers and sub. So I would have to connect the O2 either to the headphone out on the STX or tape out on the HK 3390.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> Getting the SR225i to use with my STX, and I already use HFI-780 and ATH-AD900X with it as well. Because of the lower impedance of these phones, does it make sense to get an O2 headphone amp to use with the STX?


 
   
  Yes, although it would not make a major difference, but it could be enough to be audible. If you connect the O2 to the headphone output of the sound card, then it is probably best to use the O2 at 1x gain.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





weirdchild said:


> Yes, I could verify that with my newbie mistake when I got a LME49710HA single opamp and used it in the buffer socket, RCA out sounded very bad and I was afraid I screwed something, but when I checked the HP out everything was untouched.
> 
> Edit: STX only works with dual op amps, thats why.


 
  If you wanna use single channel op-amps, you have to use two and install them into a dual op-amp adapter


----------



## WeirdChild

So Installed 3x LME49990 on my Xonar STX.
   
http://tinypic.com/r/j0uooi/6
   
  (Got op amps from frugalphile on ebay)
   
  Tested on bookshelf speakers (Audioengine A5+) * Only discerning audio setup I have ATM*
   
  The quality of the reproduction has been increased in a way I can *feel* the vibration of the metal strings from THE doubro guitar of Stevie Ray Vaughn when he performed that unplugged show for example. Norah Jones sounds like shed made of flesh and bones, and never realized how organized where the drum lines from Pink Floyd...
   
  Sorry I have no technical definitions to explain how it sounds, but I do agree sound stage is more notorious and real like. A great upgrade from stock op amps.
   
  Finished a freelance project I hated doing, got some hated cash and so I just ordered the famous HD 650 and will be my first serious headphones ever.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





weirdchild said:


> So Installed 3x LME49990 on my Xonar STX.
> 
> http://tinypic.com/r/j0uooi/6
> 
> ...


 
  Have you tried the "Unifed Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit?


----------



## WeirdChild

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Have you tried the "Unifed Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit?


 
   
  Yes I have the 1.54 version from the these drivers. My configuration goes like these:
   
  WIN7 > Unified Xonar Drivers> foobar2000 > FLAC (Not resampled) > ASIO (64 bit drivers) > Xonar STX >
   
  With this setup foobar2000 becomes exclusive and takes over the STX.
   
  When I am not listen to music and say I am gonna watch a movie I can tweak the Xonar Audio Center and equalize to my liking.
   
  Took me a while to figure what were the best options for me, but once you get everything running is very pleasant.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





weirdchild said:


> Yes I have the 1.54 version from the these drivers. My configuration goes like these:
> 
> WIN7 > Unified Xonar Drivers> foobar2000 > FLAC (Not resampled) > ASIO (64 bit drivers) > Xonar STX >
> 
> ...


 
  I use the exact same setup for music.
  I use PowerDVD 11 for Blu-ray movies, it's fairly cheap on eBay, I think i paid around $32 for it.
  Media Player Classic and VLC Media Player are good for most other video stuff and free at Codecguide-dot-com.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I use the exact same setup for music.
> I use PowerDVD 11 for Blu-ray movies, it's fairly cheap on eBay, I think i paid around $32 for it.
> Media Player Classic and VLC Media Player are good for most other video stuff and free at Codecguide-dot-com.


 
  KM player

 Audio: ac3 decoder -> Cyberlink audio decoder (dolby headphone on my laptop )
 Video: DivxHD decoder (EVR renderer) with a few colour tweaks in the ATI Catalyst Control Centre, definately the best presentation
   
  VLC player never did anything for me, but I must say MPC-HC really has got somewhere, the MPC video decoder is really amazing with some ATI Catalyst Control Centre colour tweaks, and I can apply the same Cyberlink Audio decoder butchery for dolby headphone, albeit much easier.
   
  I still like my KM Player the most, maybe I'm just a tweaker lol.


----------



## juanej

So I got my asus xonar essence and I've been using it with my ath-m50, is it normal I have to crank the volume bar above 3/4 and sometimes all the way up so I can listen music at a good (drunk good if you know what I mean) level?
   
  I'm using normal gain, and unified xonar drivers btw, the m50s have 38ohms of impedance


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





juanej said:


> So I got my asus xonar essence and I've been using it with my ath-m50, is it normal I have to crank the volume bar above 3/4 and sometimes all the way up so I can listen music at a good (drunk good if you know what I mean) level?
> 
> I'm using normal gain, and unified xonar drivers btw, the m50s have 38ohms of impedance


 
   
  How are you playing them? Your software might be set to a lower level?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





juanej said:


> So I got my asus xonar essence and I've been using it with my ath-m50, is it normal I have to crank the volume bar above 3/4 and sometimes all the way up so I can listen music at a good (drunk good if you know what I mean) level?
> 
> I'm using normal gain, and unified xonar drivers btw, the m50s have 38ohms of impedance


 
  Follow instructions here: wiki and set to low gain for those headphones, but I suspect the bass will atleast be a little out of sorts - most probably not Denon level.


----------



## juanej

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Follow instructions here: wiki and set to low gain for those headphones, but I suspect the bass will atleast be a little out of sorts - most probably not Denon level.


 
  thank you very much, it sounds a lot louder now but isn't resampling 44.1khz to 48khz bad?
   
  And I'm getting the sound output interrupted when any other sound tries to play on windows (like facebook notification sound) using wasapi on musicbee (If I use ASIO it plays really fast or really slow so ASIO is not an option for me)


----------



## brdnhigh

hey guys i followed the guide and am using foobar with 48/24 settings.  i was wondering when i resample to 48000 if i should check ultra mode or not and also under output should i select wasapi(event) or wasapi(push) with my xonar card?  oh and im currently using wasapi was wondering if i should keep wasapi or use asio?  between foobar and musicbee is one better than the other for audio quality or they about the same?  Thanks!


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





brdnhigh said:


> hey guys i followed the guide and am using foobar with 48/24 settings.  i was wondering when i resample to 48000 if i should check ultra mode or not and also under output should i select wasapi(event) or wasapi(push) with my xonar card?  oh and im currently using wasapi was wondering if i should keep wasapi or use asio?  between foobar and musicbee is one better than the other for audio quality or they about the same?  Thanks!


 
   
  ASIO and WASAPI should be identical if implemented correctly.


----------



## e6600

Quote: 





brdnhigh said:


> hey guys i followed the guide and am using foobar with 48/24 settings.  i was wondering when i resample to 48000 if i should check ultra mode or not and also under output should i select wasapi(event) or wasapi(push) with my xonar card?  oh and im currently using wasapi was wondering if i should keep wasapi or use asio?  between foobar and musicbee is one better than the other for audio quality or they about the same?  Thanks!


 
  yeah use ultra
  i use asio 1.0 since it doesnt mute other programs, and since i dont have an amp to use asio 2.0
   
  use whichever player you prefer.  there shouldnt be any sq difference, unless a player is using some kind of hidden dsp effect
  differences are mostly playlist management and vst/plugin support


----------



## ryssen

When trying LT1364 as I/V stage I got oschillation opamps got "hot as hell"...
  Any one else experiencensed this?


----------



## KonaBear

Hello all,
   
  I am having fun with the STX and VLC combo for music playback.  I enjoy using Xonar Audio Center to mess with effects and select from Dolby Headphone or HF mode, etc.
   
  I just installed Foobar to give it a shot and the first thing I realized is that it seems to bypass all control of the Xonar Audio Center, thus preventing me from being able to choose between HF, Gaming, Music, Movie, Dolby Headphone, etc.  Does anyone know why this is or how I can get all audio playback controlled through the Xonar Audio Center?
   
  Cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> I am having fun with the STX and VLC combo for music playback.  I enjoy using Xonar Audio Center to mess with effects and select from Dolby Headphone or HF mode, etc.
> I just installed Foobar to give it a shot and the first thing I realized is that it seems to bypass all control of the Xonar Audio Center, thus preventing me from being able to choose between HF, Gaming, Music, Movie, Dolby Headphone, etc.  Does anyone know why this is or how I can get all audio playback controlled through the Xonar Audio Center?


 
  I'm guessing bypassing the controls keeps the audio signal cleaner.


----------



## suica

If I use high gain with my low impedance Sennheiser HD598s, how badly will the sound quality be affected? Should I just stick with the recommended normal gain for low impedance headphones?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





suica said:


> If I use high gain with my low impedance Sennheiser HD598s, how badly will the sound quality be affected?


 
   
  The "gain" control is digital, and does not affect the quality, it just makes the sound louder (the analog parts of the card actually always work as if you set the maximum gain and volume).
   
  One thing that does have an effect on the sound quality is if you set the "left" and "right" controls higher than the default of 76; these can boost the level in software by up to 12 dB, but dynamic compression will be used to prevent clipping. The dynamic compression may also be triggered when using the EQ. If the compression can only be avoided by increasing the gain and decreasing the volume, then higher gain might indeed improve sound quality.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The "gain" control is digital, and does not affect the quality, it just makes the sound louder (the analog parts of the card actually always work as if you set the maximum gain and volume).
> 
> One thing that does have an effect on the sound quality is if you set the "left" and "right" controls higher than the default of 76; these can boost the level in software by up to 12 dB, but dynamic compression will be used to prevent clipping.


 
   
  I thought that the different levels of gain had different voltages(extra high gain being at 7Vrms)? Or is voltage driven by volume, meaning that it's only delivering 7Vrms when at maximum volume?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> I thought that the different levels of gain had different voltages(extra high gain being at 7Vrms)? Or is voltage driven by volume, meaning that it's only delivering 7Vrms when at maximum volume?


 
   
  Increasing the output voltage makes the sound louder, that is the purpose of a volume control, which basically implements a variable overall gain. In the case of the Xonar STX, a full scale analog output from the PCM1792 DAC always results in a 20 Vp-p output on the headphone jack (if it is enabled), but the digital signal that is converted by the DAC is attenuated by the gain and volume controls. Here is how it is implemented in the open source ALSA driver:
   

```
static void update_pcm1796_volume(struct oxygen *chip) { struct xonar_pcm179x *data = chip->model_data; unsigned int i; s8 gain_offset; gain_offset = data->hp_active ? data->hp_gain_offset : 0; for (i = 0; i < data->dacs; ++i) { pcm1796_write_cached(chip, i, 16, chip->dac_volume[i * 2] + gain_offset); pcm1796_write_cached(chip, i, 17, chip->dac_volume[i * 2 + 1] + gain_offset); } }
```
   
  As it can be seen in the datasheet, registers 16 and 17 are the digital attenuation control that allows for 0 to 120 dB attenuation in 0.5 dB steps. "hp_gain_offset" is 0 dB in the 600 Ω mode, -6 dB in the 300 Ω mode, and -18 dB in the 64 Ω mode.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Increasing the output voltage makes the sound louder, that is the purpose of a volume control, which basically implements a variable overall gain. In the case of the Xonar STX, a full scale analog output from the PCM1792 DAC always results in a 20 Vp-p output on the headphone jack (if it is enabled), but the digital signal that is converted by the DAC is attenuated by the gain and volume controls. Here is how it is implemented in the open source ALSA driver:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


 
  Makes sense, thanks.


----------



## KonaBear

Hi guys,
   
  I recently finished my audiophile/gaming pc build:

 1000W Power Supply: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00596U0YQ/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
 Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OV789U/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
 4xCorsair Vengeance 4GB Memory=16GB total RAM: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004CRSM4I/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00
 Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 Motherboard: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055QYKQO/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i01
 AMD FX-8120 8-Core Black Edition Processor Socket AM3+: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UBNKZG/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i02
 GIGABYTE Radeon HD 7950 graphics card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125414
 AKG K701 cans
   
  So far everything is working wonderfully, and I am loving the sound combo of the K701 and STX together.  The only problem I have encountered is what appears to be random microstuttering of the audio, especially when I listen to music...occasionally when playing games.  For a new build, it is disappointing that I would be having such a problem; however, I am left without a clue of what the cause/solution may be.  Sometimes, I notice the microstuttering occur when using other programs, surfing the web, anything that takes the system out of "idle" (idle + foobar running the music).  Of course, sometimes I can go a good length of time using the computer normally without any stutters in the audio in both idle mode and in usage mode...so for the most part, it appears completely random and unpredictable.  
   
  My guesses so far as to the problem:

 Not enough power from the power supply unit? Or I just have crappy/sketchy one in general?
 Malfunction with my RAM (even though my system recognizes all 16GB that I installed)?
 sound card driver? (I have reinstalled the latest driver multiple times)
 sound card itself is defective (hard to believe seeing as how everything works, save for the random microstuttering)
  At this point I am pretty stuck, but have a feeling you guys may have a better clue than me, any help or feedback would be greatly appreciated!
   
  Cheers


----------



## elwappo99

I had the same issue for the longest time. Check out this:
   
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
   
  Download it and see if the cutouts occur with a spike in your latency.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001OV789U/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
> 
> My guesses so far as to the problem:
> 
> ...


 
  Update your motherboard's chip set drivers to the latest version
  http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/raid_windows.aspx#2
   
  Try the third party drivers "Unified Xonar Drivers" from the website Brainbit.
   
  You did disable the on-board audio, in your motherboard's bios?


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I had the same issue for the longest time. Check out this:
> 
> http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
> 
> Download it and see if the cutouts occur with a spike in your latency.


 
  okay will try this right now, thank you for the quick help! will update how it goes


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Update your motherboard's chip set drivers to the latest version
> http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/raid_windows.aspx#2
> 
> Try the third party drivers "Unified Xonar Drivers" from the website Brainbit.
> ...


 
  yes I disabled the on-board audio in bios, and now I will try the chip set drivers as well as finding the Unified Xonar Drivers.  On the link you provided, will I also need the other two downloads for RAID and RAIDXPERT? Thanks!


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





konabear said:


> okay will try this right now, thank you for the quick help! will update how it goes


 
   
  I had the same issue and it drove me nuts. Took me 2 solid hours but finally figured out it was a monitor program I had from Asus for my motherboard, that allowed overclocking, etc. Caused a spike every 5 seconds and every minute one of those was enough to clip the sound. Drove me nuts! 
   
  good luck with it


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> Yes I disabled the on-board audio in bios, and now I will try the chip set drivers as well as finding the Unified Xonar Drivers.  On the link you provided, will I also need the other two downloads for RAID and RAIDXPERT? Thanks!


 
  The RAID & RAIDEXPERT are drivers that I really doubt you have a need for.


----------



## KonaBear

big thank you to PurpleAngel and elwappo for the very helpful links and advice, I am currently testing everything to see if there are any more audio drops...so far so good.  I installed the latest Unified Xonar Drivers as well as updated bios after testing my latency and now it seems to be much more stable...more testing to come.
   
  Quick question, will adjusting the latency via the taskbar icon help at all? (right click on the Asus Audio Center Icon in taskbar --> click "Asus Xonar Asio" --> gives option to change bit depth and latency...any recommend settings I should use?
   
  Cheers


----------



## e6600

Quote: 





konabear said:


> big thank you to PurpleAngel and elwappo for the very helpful links and advice, I am currently testing everything to see if there are any more audio drops...so far so good.  I installed the latest Unified Xonar Drivers as well as updated bios after testing my latency and now it seems to be much more stable...more testing to come.
> 
> Quick question, will adjusting the latency via the taskbar icon help at all? (right click on the Asus Audio Center Icon in taskbar --> click "Asus Xonar Asio" --> gives option to change bit depth and latency...any recommend settings I should use?
> 
> Cheers


 
  asio latency is mostly for recording.  theres no effect on playback and sq, only a slight delay in vsts and stuff like visualizations
  i have mine at 300, and my foobar buffer length at 3000.  mostly since i like playing games with music on


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





konabear said:


> big thank you to PurpleAngel and elwappo for the very helpful links and advice, I am currently testing everything to see if there are any more audio drops...so far so good.  I installed the latest Unified Xonar Drivers as well as updated bios after testing my latency and now it seems to be much more stable...more testing to come.
> 
> Quick question, will adjusting the latency via the taskbar icon help at all? (right click on the Asus Audio Center Icon in taskbar --> click "Asus Xonar Asio" --> gives option to change bit depth and latency...any recommend settings I should use?
> 
> Cheers


 
   
  The dpc latency tester is testing the whole machine, and I don't think adjusting it in the taskbar would affect much. Usually the dpc software shows if you have any major issues with latency. 
   
  Does anyone else not use the Xonar Asio? I find I get better results from using direct sound WASAPI than the "speaker out" through Xonar...


----------



## KonaBear

update: ive encountered the audio drops again  not sure why or where they came from so I started the latency checker and it showed some disappointing results (pictured).  I then tried going into device manager to disable various devices but to avail


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





konabear said:


> update: ive encountered the audio drops again  not sure why or where they came from so I started the latency checker and it showed some disappointing results (pictured).  I then tried going into device manager to disable various devices but to avail


 
   
   
  Oh my god....  that will definitely do it. At a bare minimum you should be under 150us.


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Oh my god....  that will definitely do it. At a bare minimum you should be under 150us.


 
  right?!  The scary part is I have no clue as to pinpointing the problem


----------



## KonaBear

for comparison the pictures above are when I was listening to music on foobar and browsing the web, etc
   
  the ones below are in idle mode


----------



## elwappo99

I would guess due to the somewhat normal interval of those peaks it is a monitoring software and not hardware. 
   
  Step 1: Update ALL of your drivers. See if that helps
   
  Step 2: Figure out every piece of software that is running and begin to close it. Did your motherboard come with any software you use?


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I would guess due to the somewhat normal interval of those peaks it is a monitoring software and not hardware.
> 
> Step 1: Update ALL of your drivers. See if that helps
> 
> Step 2: Figure out every piece of software that is running and begin to close it. Did your motherboard come with any software you use?


 
  sounds, good.  it looks like all my drivers are up to date as far as I can tell.  Yes, my motherboard did come with software, all of which I installed, and seemingly is up to date...will look further into it, however.


----------



## KonaBear

latest update:
   
  found out the program that was doing it.  It's called EasyTune6, something that came with my motherboard and is used for overclocking, thermostat, fan control, etc.  It was set to monitor my temperature every 3 seconds which is what was creating all the annoying, yet consistent spikes...


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I had the same issue and it drove me nuts. Took me 2 solid hours but finally figured out it was a monitor program I had from Asus for my motherboard, that allowed overclocking, etc. Caused a spike every 5 seconds and every minute one of those was enough to clip the sound. Drove me nuts!
> 
> good luck with it


 
   
  Quote: 





konabear said:


> latest update:
> 
> found out the program that was doing it.  It's called EasyTune6, something that came with my motherboard and is used for overclocking, thermostat, fan control, etc.  It was set to monitor my temperature every 3 seconds which is what was creating all the annoying, yet consistent spikes...


 
   
  Yup, been there   Glad it got taken care of. Hopefully no more drops!


----------



## juanej

So I have another question, sorry if this has been answered before: is there anyway I can use musicbee with asio output and getting sound from any other application through my soundcard too at the same time?


----------



## Magister Mundus

Sorry to be posting this if ti was already posted, but I didn't find the answer...
   
  I need a bit-perfect test for my Xonar Essence STX, so I thought about a internal loopback in Linux using the ALSA...
  I would "play" a song and record it internally.
   
  This way I would be able to verify (by subtracting the original track with the "recorded" one) if my computer setup is REALLY bit perfect.
   
  Anyone has any ideas/thoughts?
   
  PS: In case this doesn't work, is there a way to record DIGITAL signals by loopbacking the soundcard with a SPDIF to 1.4" (TRS) cable? I mean, is there such a cable and would it work? Or the soundcard wouldn't record anything ?
   
  Thank you very much!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Magister Mundus* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> PS: In case this doesn't work, is there a way to record DIGITAL signals by loopbacking the soundcard with a SPDIF to 1.4" (TRS) cable? I mean, is there such a cable and would it work? Or the soundcard wouldn't record anything ?


 
   
  You cannot use the analog line input to record a digital S/PDIF signal. But it is possible to detect low quality software sample rate conversion and/or quantization to 16 bits by loopback recording the analog output.
   
  If you want to avoid unwanted software DSP, just use the hw: ALSA devices, and bypass/disable PulseAudio or other software mixers.


----------



## Invisible

Hey guys!  First post, still a newbie on audio and the like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Thanks to Mad Lust Envy's Headphone guide, I was able to narrow it down and decided with DT990 Pro.  After hooking this bad boy up and made adjustments, could not believe what I was hearing and was just in awe.
  Recently bought 3x LME49720NA's and 3x LM6172IN's and here are my thoughts.
   
  49720NA - Bigger soundstage and quality over stock op-amps, Bass was lacking although it was tighter
  6170 - Improved bass over 49720NA but it just sounded very...unnatural, even mushy at some points for me.
  Couldn't stand having less bass so I switched back to my stock op-amps.
   
  Based on the inputs/reviews that everyone's given I'm thinking of getting these op-amps and giving them a shot.
  LME49990 (need two of these on an adapter)
  LME49860NA
  OPA2107AP
   
  I really just want better quality that the 49720 gave me but MORE bass.  I've heard 49990 delivers...but I'm quite not sure...anyways, if anyone would shed some light, it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Bojamijams

2137P in the I/V
   
  You're welcome.


----------



## Invisible

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> 2137P in the I/V
> 
> You're welcome.


 

 Thanks!  Going to give this and 49860's a shot.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I also have 2.1 setup and am wondering what's an ideal/decent buffer op-amp.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





invisible said:


> Thanks!  Going to give this and 49860's a shot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think I used 2107's in the I/V and got terrible distortion. I thought the two were related. You may be getting a lot of distortion out the opamp, report back


----------



## DamageInc77

I also got the 49720NA in the I/V slots and the standard opamp in the buffer slot.
   
  While is does sound very good, I was wondering if there is anything better in terms of bass.
  The 49720NA are very good, but the bass is a little recessed.
   
  Is there anything like it, but with better bass?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I also got the 49720NA in the I/V slots and the standard opamp in the buffer slot.
> 
> While is does sound very good, I was wondering if there is anything better in terms of bass.
> The 49720NA are very good, but the bass is a little recessed.
> ...


 
  49720 and 49860 are essentially the same, and they are a flawed chip (even TI admitted it) and the 49710 is also screwed. 
   
  The top dogs for neutral are AD797 (which could oscillate and fail), THS4032, and LME49990.


----------



## verde57

I have 2 LME49990  and one OPA627AU in the buffer. With  another LME49990  in the buffer it will sound much better?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> I have 2 LME49990  and one OPA627AU in the buffer. With  another LME49990  in the buffer it will sound much better?


 
  Different yes, better... who knows


----------



## Invisible

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I think I used 2107's in the I/V and got terrible distortion. I thought the two were related. You may be getting a lot of distortion out the opamp, report back


 
   
  I sure will once I get those op-amps!
   
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> 49720 and 49860 are essentially the same, and they are a flawed chip (even TI admitted it) and the 49710 is also screwed.
> 
> The top dogs for neutral are AD797 (which could oscillate and fail), THS4032, and LME49990.


 
   
  Since 49860 and 49720 are the same, the bass must still be lacking...is it better pronounced on LME49990?  Would really love a slightly detailed explanation on LME49990 since..well it costs high.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Thanks in advance.


----------



## jdip

Which headphone would be better suited to the STX, the Beyer DT 990 250 ohm or 600 ohm?  The headphone amp in the STX is rated up to 600 ohms but I've seen people saying that the STX doesn't have enough to drive these 600 ohm Beyers...  So is the 250 ohm a better choice for it?
   
  Input please.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





jdip said:


> Which headphone would be better suited to the STX, the Beyer DT 990 250 ohm or 600 ohm?  The headphone amp in the STX is rated up to 600 ohms but I've seen people saying that the STX doesn't have enough to drive these 600 ohm Beyers...  So is the 250 ohm a better choice for it?
> 
> Input please.


 
   
  I have T1s on the ST on highest gain. At about 50% power they are basically too loud to listen to comfortably. I think you'll have enough power. A lot of people who have been having issues with sound power have found they have a software setting somewhere that's limiting the volume.


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I have T1s on the ST on highest gain. At about 50% power they are basically too loud to listen to comfortably. I think you'll have enough power. A lot of people who have been having issues with sound power have found they have a software setting somewhere that's limiting the volume.


 
  What is the T1?  What impedance are they?
   
  From what I've seen about people recommending the 250 ohm version with the STX isn't due to volume but rather sound quality and bass response.  Not really sure what to believe though.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





jdip said:


> What is the T1?  What impedance are they?
> 
> From what I've seen about people recommending the 250 ohm version with the STX isn't due to volume but rather sound quality and bass response.  Not really sure what to believe though.


 
   
  Beyerdynamic T1. 600ohm, very power hungry. there's a thread somewhere talking about the differences between the 250ohm and 600ohm versions in terms of sound, but iirc, there's not too much of a difference overall. Could you find the post where someone said the 600ohm didn't go very well? Sometimes you have to take opinions with a grain of salt, based on the user's experience. 
   
http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-T1-Audiofile-Stereo-Headphone/dp/B0031RD3YY


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> Beyerdynamic T1. 600ohm, very power hungry. there's a thread somewhere talking about the differences between the 250ohm and 600ohm versions in terms of sound, but iirc, there's not too much of a difference overall. Could you find the post where someone said the 600ohm didn't go very well? Sometimes you have to take opinions with a grain of salt, based on the user's experience.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-T1-Audiofile-Stereo-Headphone/dp/B0031RD3YY


 
  I'm not sure where exactly I saw it (my head hurts now, I've been furiously googling about this very issue for the past 2 hours )
   
  They basically said it wouldn't drive the 600 ohm version to its full potential and a separate more powerful amp will make it perform better.  In your opinion would it be better for me to go with the 600 or 250 ohm version for the STX?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I'm not sure where exactly I saw it (my head hurts now, I've been furiously googling about this very issue for the past 2 hours )
> 
> They basically said it wouldn't drive the 600 ohm version to its full potential and a separate more powerful amp will make it perform better.  In your opinion would it be better for me to go with the 600 or 250 ohm version for the STX?


 
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
   
  There is zombiex's comments on the 600 vs 250. I don't know how anyone could say the STX doesn't have the power for 600ohms, unless they were doing something wrong, or not adjusting the gain at all. The STX is honestly more powerful than most headphone amplifiers available!


----------



## Invisible

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I'm not sure where exactly I saw it (my head hurts now, I've been furiously googling about this very issue for the past 2 hours )
> 
> They basically said it wouldn't drive the 600 ohm version to its full potential and a separate more powerful amp will make it perform better.  In your opinion would it be better for me to go with the 600 or 250 ohm version for the STX?


 
   
  Check this thread out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/615968/beyerdynamic-dt-990-600-ohm-or-250-ohm/15
  Hopefully that'll aid you on your purchase.


----------



## Houbi

Hi guys

I have an Essence STX and Tesla T1 also. Tracks with a lot of bass are causing problems... It really sounds like a more powerfull amp will help. I'm using foobar2000/WASAPI, foobar volume is set to 100%, using ASUS Tool for volume (or system volume, is the same). What am i doing wrong?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





houbi said:


> Hi guys
> I have an Essence STX and Tesla T1 also. Tracks with a lot of bass are causing problems... It really sounds like a more powerfull amp will help. I'm using foobar2000/WASAPI, foobar volume is set to 100%, using ASUS Tool for volume (or system volume, is the same). What am i doing wrong?


 
   
  What did you set the gain to?


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





invisible said:


> Check this thread out: http://www.head-fi.org/t/615968/beyerdynamic-dt-990-600-ohm-or-250-ohm/15
> Hopefully that'll aid you on your purchase.


 
  Thanks, I did see that thread (spent the whole afternoon googling about my dilemma).
   
  I think I might go with the 600 ohm ones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I'm not sure where exactly I saw it (my head hurts now, I've been furiously googling about this very issue for the past 2 hours )
> 
> They basically said it wouldn't drive the 600 ohm version to its full potential and a separate more powerful amp will make it perform better.  In your opinion would it be better for me to go with the 600 or 250 ohm version for the STX?


 
  Get the 250-Ohm version, I'm of the opinion that usually the 600-Ohm (of anything) is usually only a little bit better then the 250-Ohm version.
  Besides, if you have never listened to the 600-Ohm version, you would never know what your missing out on anyway 
   
  Currently listening to Taylor Swift-We are never ever getting back together, with my DT880 600-Ohm plugged into my Essence STX (3 X AD797BR).
  Volume at 60% is plenty loud. Volume at 50% is a very comfortable volume.


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Get the 250-Ohm version, I'm of the opinion that usually the 600-Ohm (of anything) is usually only a little bit better then the 250-Ohm version.
> Besides, if you have never listened to the 600-Ohm version, you would never know what your missing out on anyway
> 
> Currently listening to Taylor Swift-We are never ever getting back together, with my DT880 600-Ohm plugged into my Essence STX (3 X AD797BR).
> Volume at 60% is plenty loud. Volume at 50% is a very comfortable volume.


 
  If the 600 Ohm version is supposed to be a bit better and the STX can get them to good volumes why do you suggest that I go for the 250 Ohm version?


----------



## Invisible

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Get the 250-Ohm version, I'm of the opinion that usually the 600-Ohm (of anything) is usually only a little bit better then the 250-Ohm version.
> Besides, if you have never listened to the 600-Ohm version, you would never know what your missing out on anyway
> 
> Currently listening to Taylor Swift-We are never ever getting back together, with my DT880 600-Ohm plugged into my Essence STX (3 X AD797BR).
> Volume at 60% is plenty loud. Volume at 50% is a very comfortable volume.


 
   
  PurpleAngel, didn't you have 3x LME49990 at some point in time?  Mind telling me AD797BR and LME49990 souind like, especially bass wise?  I've seen one person comment that AD797BR/THS4032/LME49990 are top choices for "neutral"...quite not sure how neutral is supposed to be.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jdip said:


> If the 600 Ohm version is supposed to be a bit better and the STX can get them to good volumes why do you suggest that I go for the 250 Ohm version?


 
  I guess the 250-Ohm version is the "safe" recommendation.
  Usually the (big) price difference, between the 250-Ohm to 600-Ohm headphones is not worth it to some people.
  I like to think buy the 250-Ohm and a cheaper sound card and spend the extra cash towards a better amp.
  If money is no option, then get the 600-Ohm, if your willing to pay a for a little bit better.
  As your looking at the DT990, it might be a little more worth it, as most people will notice the difference for the DT990.
   
  Maybe get the Essence STX, but hold out on buying the DT990 600-Ohm until you finding a used one for a good price.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





invisible said:


> PurpleAngel, didn't you have 3x LME49990 at some point in time?  Mind telling me AD797BR and LME49990 souind like, especially bass wise?  I've seen one person comment that AD797BR/THS4032/LME49990 are top choices for "neutral"...quite not sure how neutral is supposed to be.


 
  I bought 10 LME49990 chips and the dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapters and even the soldering iron.
  I realized after seeing how small the LME49990 op-amps are, that my eye site is not good enough for soldering them.
  So I ended up buying pre-soldered ADA797BRs from China.


----------



## genclaymore

you might been able to get some one to do it for you, That what I usually do when I was rolling op-amps. Because I knew if i tried to do something like that with my shakey hands. I prolly mess it up.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





jdip said:


> If the 600 Ohm version is supposed to be a bit better and the STX can get them to good volumes why do you suggest that I go for the 250 Ohm version?


 
   
  If you can get the 600 Ω version at a decent price, it is worth giving a try with the Xonar STX. The card can output nearly 7 Volts (RMS, at the highest gain setting) into that impedance with very little distortion, and that should be enough for the majority of people. For comparison, many use 250 Ω DTxx0 and even AKG K70x/Q701 headphones from the FiiO E11, and think that combination is fine, while the STX powers the DT990-600Ω better.
   
  Of course, choosing 250 Ω instead has the obvious advantage that it is reasonably usable from many other devices with lower voltage output than that of the Xonar STX.


----------



## jdip

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I guess the 250-Ohm version is the "safe" recommendation.
> Usually the (big) price difference, between the 250-Ohm to 600-Ohm headphones is not worth it to some people.
> I like to think buy the 250-Ohm and a cheaper sound card and spend the extra cash towards a better amp.
> If money is no option, then get the 600-Ohm, if your willing to pay a for a little bit better.
> ...


 
  I already have an STX and I can get the DT 990 600 ohm and 250 ohm for the same price so that isn't an issue.  I was just wondering which headphone would be better for the soundcard disregarding price. 
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> If you can get the 600 Ω version at a decent price, it is worth giving a try with the Xonar STX. The card can output nearly 7 Volts (RMS, at the highest gain setting) into that impedance with very little distortion, and that should be enough for the majority of people. For comparison, many use 250 Ω DTxx0 and even AKG K70x/Q701 headphones from the FiiO E11, and think that combination is fine, while the STX powers the DT990-600Ω better.
> 
> Of course, choosing 250 Ω instead has the obvious advantage that it is reasonably usable from many other devices with lower voltage output than that of the Xonar STX.


 
  I don't really plan to use it on many devices and am content just using it with my computer for now.
   
  So I guess I should go for the 600 ohm then?  Thanks for the input guys.


----------



## Invisible

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I already have an STX and I can get the DT 990 600 ohm and 250 ohm for the same price so that isn't an issue.  I was just wondering which headphone would be better for the soundcard disregarding price.
> I don't really plan to use it on many devices and am content just using it with my computer for now.
> 
> So I guess I should go for the 600 ohm then?  Thanks for the input guys.


 
  Go for it. ;p


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jdip said:


> I already have an STX and I can get the DT 990 600 ohm and 250 ohm for the same price so that isn't an issue.  I was just wondering which headphone would be better for the soundcard disregarding price.
> I don't really plan to use it on many devices and am content just using it with my computer for now.
> 
> So I guess I should go for the 600 ohm then?  Thanks for the input guys.


 
  Same price, then get the 600-Ohm.


----------



## jdip

Thanks again guys, my order is in for the 600 ohm ones!


----------



## brdnhigh

o


----------



## Sylverant

...


----------



## KonaBear

Since making my new gaming computer, I have been swayed into pc gaming favoritism over console gaming; however, I still want to play certain xbox 360 titles like Halo 4 when it comes out.  After some research and thought, I realized that I could indeed get the best of both worlds: xbox 360 specific titles in combo with my k701's and Asus STX.  I have even seen that it is possible to bypass the need for an xbox controller by using an adapter that allows one to use a mouse and keyboard!
   
  I have seen that many people have had success routing their xbox 360 audio through their pc soundcard optical input and then back out through headphones or pc speakers, etc.  Knowing that I have an optical adapter for my xbox that allows connection to my receiver, I would like to use the same adapter to plug the optical into my Xonar STX and play the video through my hdmi ready monitor (my adapter provides the necessary split for this to work).
   
  The question is, does the STX allow Optical Input -> Asus Audio Center -> Headphones?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> Since making my new gaming computer, I have been swayed into pc gaming favoritism over console gaming; however, I still want to play certain xbox 360 titles like Halo 4 when it comes out.  After some research and thought, I realized that I could indeed get the best of both worlds: xbox 360 specific titles in combo with my k701's and Asus STX.  I have even seen that it is possible to bypass the need for an xbox controller by using an adapter that allows one to use a mouse and keyboard!
> I have seen that many people have had success routing their xbox 360 audio through their pc soundcard optical input and then back out through headphones or pc speakers, etc.  Knowing that I have an optical adapter for my xbox that allows connection to my receiver, I would like to use the same adapter to plug the optical into my Xonar STX and play the video through my hdmi ready monitor (my adapter provides the necessary split for this to work).
> The question is, does the STX allow Optical Input -> Asus Audio Center -> Headphones?


 
  I'm fairly sure the Essence STX does not have an S/PDIF (optical) input.
  If your receiver comes with HDMI, can't you connect it to your monitor's second input?
  What make and model receiver is it?


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm fairly sure the Essence STX does not have an S/PDIF (optical) input.
> If your receiver comes with HDMI, can't you connect it to your monitor's second input?
> What make and model receiver is it?


 
  Absolutely true, the only problem is that I am trying to avoid the use of my receiver altogether as I want to utilize the dolby headphone option of my STX.  I guess that rules out the optical method, then.  Fortunately, there are various adapters made for the xbox that may allow this to work, for example, an xbox -> VGA/rca input adapter -> monitor/STX line in
   
  Not sure if this would negate the functionality of dolby headphone. would the line in be the only input available on the STX?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> Absolutely true, the only problem is that I am trying to avoid the use of my receiver altogether as I want to utilize the Dolby Headphone option of my STX.  I guess that rules out the optical method, then.  Fortunately, there are various adapters made for the xbox that may allow this to work, for example, an xbox -> VGA/rca input adapter -> monitor/STX line in
> 
> Not sure if this would negate the functionality of Dolby Headphone. would the line in be the only input available on the STX?


 
  The line-in is only 2-channels, really need 6-channels (5.1) for surround sound.
  If the xBox supports and outputs the old Dolby Surround, might be a very slim chance the 2-channel might provide for surround sound.
  How do you know your receiver does not support Dolby Headphone?
  Make and model of receiver?


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The line-in is only 2-channels, really need 6-channels (5.1) for surround sound.
> If the xBox supports and outputs the old Dolby Surround, might be a very slim chance the 2-channel might provide for surround sound.
> How do you know your receiver does not support Dolby Headphone?
> Make and model of receiver?


 
  Ahh very good point, this may pose a problem.  I have an Onkyo receiver, do not know the model and it is not accessible right now as I had to leave it with family when moving into a new flat due to space issues.  What I do know is that previous attempts of xbox -> receiver -> cans did not allow a specific dolby headphone option or any sort of apparent virtual surround...the receiver would automatically switch to analog  Will update asap when I know the model.  For the purposes of my current situation (without access to my beloved receiver), it looks like I may have to sacrifice true 5.1 if I want to use xbox -> STX.
   
  cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> Ahh very good point, this may pose a problem.  I have an Onkyo receiver, do not know the model and it is not accessible right now as I had to leave it with family when moving into a new flat due to space issues.  What I do know is that previous attempts of xbox -> receiver -> cans did not allow a specific dolby headphone option or any sort of apparent virtual surround...the receiver would automatically switch to analog  Will update asap when I know the model.  For the purposes of my current situation (without access to my beloved receiver), it looks like I may have to sacrifice true 5.1 if I want to use xbox -> STX.


 
  Just thought (brain F@rt) of something, get a TBS (Turtle Beach Systems) DSS.
  Connect the optical from the Xbox to the TBS DSS, connect USB from PC to DSS for power, run a 3.5mm (1/8", Mini-jack) male to male, from the DSS headphone output to the mic in on the STX.
  So the TDS DDS does the surround sound processing and outputs pre-proceesed Dolby Headphone 5.1 (or whatever the DSS using for processing surround sound).
  I'm assuming the STX can send the mic-in signal to the headphones.
   
  You could also sell off you Onkyo receiver (I've owned three myself) and get a Yamaha receiver, which comes with Silent Cinema, Yamaha's version of headphone surround sound.


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Just thought (brain F@rt) of something, get a TBS (Turtle Beach Systems) DSS.
> Connect the optical from the Xbox to the TBS DSS, connect USB from PC to DSS for power, run a 3.5mm (1/8", Mini-jack) male to male, from the DSS headphone output to the mic in on the STX.
> So the TDS DDS does the surround sound processing and outputs pre-proceesed Dolby Headphone 5.1 (or whatever the DSS using for processing surround sound).
> I'm assuming the STX can send the mic-in signal to the headphones.
> ...


 
  this is brilliant, thank you.  If I get the TBS DSS, is there a way to still get the microphone function to work? Or would that have to be sacrificed, perhaps substituted with a usb mic? Or re-enabling onboard audio and plugging a mic into that perhaps


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





konabear said:


> This is brilliant, thank you.  If I get the TBS DSS, is there a way to still get the microphone function to work? Or would that have to be sacrificed, perhaps substituted with a usb mic? Or re-enabling onboard audio and plugging a mic into that perhaps


 
  I would assuming you would use whatever mic input is built into the Xbox itself.


----------



## DamageInc77

The STX most certainly has an SP/DIF output. The bottom coaxial output is a comboport and you get an adapter for spdif.


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> The STX most certainly has an SP/DIF output. The bottom coaxial output is a comboport and you get an adapter for spdif.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> The STX most certainly has an SP/DIF output. The bottom coaxial output is a comboport and you get an adapter for spdif.


 
  output yes, but I unfortunately need input


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





konabear said:


> output yes, but I unfortunately need input


 
   
  Only the Xonar D2 and D2X have an S/PDIF input. These cards also have 7.1 channel analog output. If you use the Xonar STX with an external amplifier, you may consider getting one of these instead, although they tend to be overpriced currently.


----------



## Cebi

Hi, 
   
  In the original post it is stated that the highest gain, for 300 to 600 ohms, would give the best quality. I will be using a pair of IEMs with a very low impedance connected via an amp, to my Essence ST.
   
  Will the amplifier protect the IEMs from the high gain setting, and thus, should I max out the gain to achieve the best possible quality?
   
  Also, should I connect the amp via the headphone or RCA output, and is there any difference in quality?
   
  I am a bit of a newbie at all this!
   
  Thanks.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cebi said:


> In the original post it is stated that the highest gain, for 300 to 600 ohms, would give the best quality. I will be using a pair of IEMs with a very low impedance connected via an amp, to my Essence ST.
> Will the amplifier protect the IEMs from the high gain setting, and thus, should I max out the gain to achieve the best possible quality?
> Also, should I connect the amp via the headphone or RCA output, and is there any difference in quality?


 
  Sound quality wise, hooking the external amplifier to the Essence ST's RCA output should provide the best (slightly better?) sound quality, but you only get 2-channel stereo sound.
  Hooked up to the Essence ST's headphone jack would give you access to Dolby Headphone 7.1 surround sound.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





cebi said:


> Hi,
> 
> In the original post it is stated that the highest gain, for 300 to 600 ohms, would give the best quality. I will be using a pair of IEMs with a very low impedance connected via an amp, to my Essence ST.
> 
> ...


 
  read the WIKI and set everything up correctly. 
   
  By using 24bit, you negate the loss incurred by lowering the volume. Just don't push the volume over 76%, and set the gain to what ever works best, so for IEMs - low gain.


----------



## networkn

Can someone confirm the first few entries here are the value replacements opamps for my STX and that I need TWO of them to power the headphone only part?
   
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=LME49720&_sacat=0&_from=R40


----------



## genclaymore

Yes you only need two which you replace the current ones that are in your i/V sockets. Make sure you place them in the right direction. the circle on the op-amps should face the same direction of the notch thats on the op-amp socket. You will have to bend the pins straight so it will go into the socket as well.


----------



## WiR3D

rather get LME49990 or THS4032


----------



## repman244

Can anyone here comment on 2xLME49720HA in I/V? I'm now using 2x49860NA (using headphone out so buffer is irrelevant), would the HA's be an improvement or just a side grade?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> Can anyone here comment on 2xLME49720HA in I/V? I'm now using 2x49860NA (using headphone out so buffer is irrelevant), would the HA's be an improvement or just a side grade?


 
  Side grade, its a flawed chip. upgrades are AD797, THS4032 and LME49990


----------



## networkn

Ok is there a summary on all the Chips and what they do? I found one for 3 and of those, the 49720 was considered the best, so I ordered those and now I hear they aren't the right ones to get. 
   
  I am pairing with a HD650, so if there is a recommendation as it relates to that, I'd be keen to hear about it?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





networkn said:


> Ok is there a summary on all the Chips and what they do? I found one for 3 and of those, the 49720 was considered the best, so I ordered those and now I hear they aren't the right ones to get.
> 
> I am pairing with a HD650, so if there is a recommendation as it relates to that, I'd be keen to hear about it?


 
  your probably reading old info. 
   
  LME49720 = LME49860 (this has better voltage range) but both are flawed and lack bass.
   
  LME49990 is new and no one has complained about it, and the AD797 and it are the 2 most clear, the latter being unstable in most applications, but giving a hell of a lot of clarity. The ths4032 is my favourite mix of details and smooth sound (which the AD797 lacks.)


----------



## networkn

Thanks when you say unstable what do you mean? Like my PC will crash if I buy AD797's? I wouldn't want that at all. What kind of sound do the 499990 have?
   
  I am hoping since I have been told that the 650's sometimes lack some clarity the 499990 would give some enhancement.


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Side grade, its a flawed chip. upgrades are AD797, THS4032 and LME49990


 

 Well the AD797 and the LME49990 are both single channel so I would need 4 of them (and the adapters) to use in the I/V (I know there are some on eBay, but I'm in Europe and the shipping cost kills, I tried searching for those adapters but couldn't find locally).
  I guess my only option is with the THS4032 since it's dual channel and I would only require 2 of them. I would still need to find the adapters so I can solder them (since they are SMD), but I guess that wouldn't be such a big problem as those "dual" adapters.
  Or just do something like this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/89714/make-yourself-soic8-to-dip8-adapter-56k-warnings


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> Well the AD797 and the LME49990 are both single channel so I would need 4 of them (and the adapters) to use in the I/V (I know there are some on eBay, but I'm in Europe and the shipping cost kills, I tried searching for those adapters but couldn't find locally).
> I guess my only option is with the THS4032 since it's dual channel and I would only require 2 of them. I would still need to find the adapters so I can solder them (since they are SMD), but I guess that wouldn't be such a big problem as those "dual" adapters.
> Or just do something like this: http://www.head-fi.org/t/89714/make-yourself-soic8-to-dip8-adapter-56k-warnings


 
  Personally, I would say just spend the cash and buy three LME49990 (6 chips) pre-soldered adapters, cost around $60 (Frugalphile, on eBay).
  Those op-amps are very tiny.
  I bought 10 LME49990 chips and the adapters and solder and the solding iron.
  When I finally open the box with the bare op-amps, and saw how small the op-amps are, I knew I was in for problems.
  (Me having 48 year old eyes, is also part of the problem with soldering little op-amps)
  I wish I had just bought the pre-soldered, before wasting my cash on "parts".
  I ended up buying pre-soldered AD797BRs from China.


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Personally, I would say just spend the cash and buy three LME49990 (6 chips) pre-soldered adapters, cost around $60 (Frugalphile, on eBay).
> Those op-amps are very tiny.
> I bought 10 LME49990 chips and the adapters and solder and the solding iron.
> When I finally open the box with the bare op-amps, and saw how small the op-amps are, I knew I was in for problems.
> ...


 

 Like I said eBay isn't an option really. I only need the opamps for the I/V (I only use the HP amp, so the buffer isn't used).
   
  I'm leaning towards 2xTHS4032 and making my own adapters (which isn't an option with the LME49990), soldering isn't a problem since I soldered tons of SMD chips before.
   
  Looking on Farnell I see two versions of THS4032:
  - THS4032ID
  - THS4032CD
  CD is cheaper for 2€ but I can't find any difference in the specification PDF...what's the difference.


----------



## Sylverant

From what I've read the THS4032CD is actually mil-spec, so it might be the better one. I bought 3 of these, if your wondering.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d

 Edit: Not sure anymore


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> Like I said eBay isn't an option really. I only need the opamps for the I/V (I only use the HP amp, so the buffer isn't used).
> 
> I'm leaning towards 2xTHS4032 and making my own adapters (which isn't an option with the LME49990), soldering isn't a problem since I soldered tons of SMD chips before.
> 
> ...


 
  The "ID" can work in a wide temperature range then the "CD".
         +85c to -40c                      verses                         +70c to -0c


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> From what I've read the THS4032CD is actually mil-spec, so it might be the better one. I bought 3 of these, if your wondering.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d


 
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The "ID" can work in a wide temperature range then the "CD".
> +85c to -40c                      verses                         +70c to -0c


 

 I see, thanks to both of you, I guess I'll just grab the ID's then.
   
*Sylverant *are you happy with them or do they lack in certain areas? I'm coming from 2xLME48960NA which do lack a bit of bass however they sound really nice to me.
  But if the THS4032 are better I'll try them and decide which to use (using HD600).


----------



## WiR3D

I also don't get the shipping thing. I'm in South Africa and shipping was fine- btw i bought from ebay (hifiic)


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


purpleangel said:


> The "ID" can work in a wide temperature range then the "CD".
> +85c to -40c                      verses                         +70c to -0c


 
  Quote:


repman244 said:


> I see, thanks to both of you, I guess I'll just grab the ID's then.
> 
> *Sylverant *are you happy with them or do they lack in certain areas? I'm coming from 2xLME48960NA which do lack a bit of bass however they sound really nice to me.
> But if the THS4032 are better I'll try them and decide which to use (using HD600).


 
   
  I had thought I read somewhere that the CD was mil-spec, but from the data PurpleAngel found (which I looked around for and found as well), it seems that the ID is most likely the Mil-spec model. If you look around and find those that would be great, but the THS4032CD are working just fine for me.

 I am happy with them. I wasn't originally unsatisfied with the stock opamps soundstage size, but felt they lacked a certain level of instrument separation and placement. I basically agree with WiR3D on their sound; the soundstage gets a little bigger, along with a big improvement in imaging and speed. Their also smoother on top compared to the stock ones. I wouldn't call them bass crazy by any means, but they do a good job of bringing out the bass in unboosted jazz recordings like Jazz At The Pawnshop. I should probably let you know that I am using the AKG K271(with 30ohm adapter)/K400EP and HD560 with the STX,all of which are bass light compared to your HD650, so you'll probably get better results in regards to bass than I do. Overall I would say they're pretty balanced, which is why I like them.

 I don't know however, how it compares to the LME49990. It's possible that you'll experience a slight drop in soundstage size moving from the LME48960NA to THS4032.


----------



## networkn

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> I had thought I read somewhere that the CD was mil-spec, but from the data PurpleAngel found (which I looked around for and found as well), it seems that the ID is most likely the Mil-spec model. If you look around and find those that would be great, but the THS4032CD are working just fine for me.
> ...


 
   
  So this review above relates to the THS4032? It sounds like the sound I want to balance out the dark sounding 650's would that be a fair comment? 
   
  Sorry to be asked to be spoonfed, but I need a plug and play solution, is this what I need x 2?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





networkn said:


> So this review above relates to the THS4032? It sounds like the sound I want to balance out the dark sounding 650's would that be a fair comment?
> 
> Sorry to be asked to be spoonfed, but I need a plug and play solution, is this what I need x 2?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d


 
  bingo


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> I had thought I read somewhere that the CD was mil-spec, but from the data PurpleAngel found (which I looked around for and found as well), it seems that the ID is most likely the Mil-spec model. If you look around and find those that would be great, but the THS4032CD are working just fine for me.
> ...


 

 Thank you, thats exactly what I was looking to hear. I guess I'll order 2 of them then and see how I like them compared to what I have now.


----------



## LordShad0w

Have any of you tried the Muses chip that Asus is using for the Muse Edition inside of your Xonar Essence ST(X)?

 I was curious if it worked and how it sounded if it did.

 Thank you in advance


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





lordshad0w said:


> Have any of you tried the Muses chip that Asus is using for the Muse Edition inside of your Xonar Essence ST(X)?
> 
> I was curious if it worked and how it sounded if it did.
> 
> Thank you in advance


 
  say what?


----------



## LordShad0w

The opamp chip that they are using in this: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.html . I was curious if anyone had yet bothered to try it in the Essence ST or STX.
 Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





lordshad0w said:


> The opamp chip that they are using in this: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.html . I was curious if anyone had yet bothered to try it in the Essence ST or STX.
> Sorry for the confusion.


 
  what a disgusting website/ article layout. Made my eyes bleed. But no I haven't tested the muses opamp, and would actually be curious how the under specced over priced part performs.


----------



## Valicious

I just got 6 LME49990 opamps to try out. (Among a bunch of other opamps) What is the DIP adapter I need?

Will this work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Dog-Single-to-Dual-Op-AMP-Adapter-DIP-version-Cimarron-Technology-/300807966060?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46098d4d6c

Or is there an even cheaper version out there?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





valicious said:


> I just got 6 LME49990 opamps to try out. (Among a bunch of other opamps) What is the DIP adapter I need?
> Will this work?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Dog-Single-to-Dual-Op-AMP-Adapter-DIP-version-Cimarron-Technology-/300807966060?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46098d4d6c
> Or is there an even cheaper version out there?


 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Dual-SOIC-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-/320824421618?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab2a02cf2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-Dual-SOIC-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-gold-plated-/220955629303?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item3371fb56f7


----------



## Bojamijams

You guys need to get yourself two 2137P's... I've tried all the LME and they were all lacking in some sense.


----------



## Cebi

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> read the WIKI and set everything up correctly.
> 
> By using 24bit, you negate the loss incurred by lowering the volume. Just don't push the volume over 76%, and set the gain to what ever works best, so for IEMs - low gain.


 
   
  Thanks. I've followed the wiki and I have a couple of questions. 
   
  Point 2 says "Set windows output to 2channel 24bit/48kHz" , then in point 7 it says "_(Only for WASAPI - not ASIO)_ right click the Sound/Speaker icon in the taskbar, go to "Playback Devices", double click on "Speakers/Headphones", go to the "Advanced" Tab, set the default format to 24bit, 48kHz." Doesn't this make point 2 redundant? Or am I supposed to set these settings in two separate places?       
   
  "control volume via system volume (76% maximum to avoid dynamic limiting)."  but ASIO prevents me from using system volume, and seems to just pump the sound out at 100%!?
   
  Should I set to 48kHz in the Xonar audio controls too?
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> You guys need to get yourself two 2137P's... I've tried all the LME and they were all lacking in some sense


 
   
  I will test your claims


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I will test your claims


 
  report back
   
  Quote: 





cebi said:


> Thanks. I've followed the wiki and I have a couple of questions.
> 
> Point 2 says "Set windows output to 2channel 24bit/48kHz" , then in point 7 it says "_(Only for WASAPI - not ASIO)_ right click the Sound/Speaker icon in the taskbar, go to "Playback Devices", double click on "Speakers/Headphones", go to the "Advanced" Tab, set the default format to 24bit, 48kHz." Doesn't this make point 2 redundant? Or am I supposed to set these settings in two separate places?
> 
> ...


 
  It is redundant, with some versions of the drivers system volume control acts like a global control, changing the player volume too.
   
  And its just a further explanation of how to set windows output.


----------



## Suopermanni

Hello everyone! I'm interested in having a go at swapping OPamps in my STX and while I know how to, from past experience, I don't know what works. I've had some rather bad experiences at choosing OPamps, so bad that I almost baked a card. I think I put a AD797 or LME4910NA in a place that it didn't agree with... =(
   
  Now, I want to know what works before I get stuck into it again. Can anyone suggest me OPamps and the best place to put them, assume that I've only using the headphone out? Would it be in the I/V stage?


----------



## Houbi

If you only need the headphone out, then you will need 2 OpAmps for the buffer slots. For my past experience, the LME49860NA worked best so far. But i'm waiting for two AD8620BR which i expect to be better...


----------



## Suopermanni

Okay, so I assume that the OPAmps that go in the buffer slots need to be the same? I need to ask this just in case I do something stupid. Also, how on earth are you running a T1 on and STX? I heard that wasn't possible.


----------



## Houbi

Exactly, I/V's have to be the same, buffer may differ (or be the same also).
   
  The Beyer T1 with my STX is a really damn hot combination. why should't that be possible?
  STX supports headphones with max. 600 Ohms, so no Problem there at all 
   
  ...still i'm looking hardly forward to my WA2


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Hello everyone! I'm interested in having a go at swapping OPamps in my STX and while I know how to, from past experience, I don't know what works. I've had some rather bad experiences at choosing OPamps, so bad that I almost baked a card. I think I put a AD797 or LME4910NA in a place that it didn't agree with... =(
> 
> Now, I want to know what works before I get stuck into it again. Can anyone suggest me OPamps and the best place to put them, assume that I've only using the headphone out? Would it be in the I/V stage?


 
  Six LME49990 SOIC chips mounted on to 3 Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapters.
  Presoldered and ready to install, cost about $60, seller on eBay is Frugalphile.
   
  Six AD797BR SOIC chip also mounted.
  Ebay sellers name is China Jade, or Cha_jade, something like that.
  Price around $35.


----------



## Suopermanni

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Six LME49990 SOIC chips mounted on to 3 Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapters.
> Presoldered and ready to install, cost about $60, seller on eBay is Frugalphile.
> 
> Six AD797BR SOIC chip also mounted.
> ...


 
   
  Just a question PurpleAngel, why do I need six of each? I thought the STX only had 3 swappable OPamps? If it's for the Essence One, I can understand as that thing has lots and lots replaceable slots.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





suopermanni said:


> Just a question PurpleAngel, why do I need six of each? I thought the STX only had 3 swappable op-amps? If it's for the Essence One, I can understand as that thing has lots and lots replaceable slots.


 
  The three op-amps used in the STX/ST are dual channel op-amps.
  The LME49990 and AD797BR are single channel op-amps.


----------



## Suopermanni

Oh! Is that so? I had no idea. Okay, now that makes sense.


----------



## Valicious

wir3d said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Dual-SOIC-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-/320824421618?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab2a02cf2
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5PCS-Dual-SOIC-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-gold-plated-/220955629303?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item3371fb56f7




Link not working


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The three op-amps used in the STX/ST are dual channel op-amps.
> The LME49990 and AD797BR are single channel op-amps.


 

 But since he will be using the headphone out, he only needs 4 of them (for I/V) since buffer isn't used.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





repman244 said:


> But since he will be using the headphone out, he only needs 4 of them (for I/V) since buffer isn't used.


 
  Very true, I just like the idea of having all op-amps match on the STX/ST,
  Never know if in the future the card might be used with speakers.


----------



## ryssen

Trying to record some guitar trough the mic input of this card,but I get high latency so its imposibole to play.
  Is there a way to get this latency down,I use N-track studio.


----------



## Mp0wer

Hi guys
   
  Will these work with STX or do i need the other one with dual op-amps on a single DIP-8?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTERS-/190752879139?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c69c1f223
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190742842110?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6928cafe


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mp0wer said:


> Hi guys
> 
> Will these work with STX or do i need the other one with dual op-amps on a single DIP-8?
> 
> ...


 
  Can't get the first link.
   
  The second link is frugalphile, he has a good rep. with Head-fier he has delt with.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


ryssen said:


> Trying to record some guitar trough the mic input of this card,but I get high latency so its imposibole to play.
> Is there a way to get this latency down,I use N-track studio.


 
   
  What drivers are you using? For better latency, try the Uni Xonar Drivers:

 https://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ryssen said:


> Trying to record some guitar trough the mic input of this card,but I get high latency so its imposibole to play.
> Is there a way to get this latency down,I use N-track studio.


 
  Uni drivers,
  turn off hardware buffering (no idea how myself, got this info from a friend running linux) and he got it down to about 50ms


----------



## Mp0wer

Will the DIP-8 adapters fit under the stx shield ?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> turn off hardware buffering (no idea how myself, got this info from a friend running linux) and he got it down to about 50ms


 
   
  The best loopback latency (playback+recording) I measured with the STX on Linux is about 7.3 ms using ALSA (device hw:1,0), a sample rate of 44100 Hz and a buffer size of 256 sample frames (4*64), the default fast roll-off DAC filter, and no special low latency kernel or real-time scheduling priority. Interestingly, the hard limit seems to be the buffer size (256), if I try to reduce it to 128 at 44100 Hz, then there are continuous xruns, but 256 at 96000 Hz works fine, and gives a playback+recording latency of slightly less than 4 ms. I can even raise the sample rate to 192000 Hz and the latency drops to less than 2 ms, but there are some xruns then. Switching the DAC filter to slow roll-off mode (probably not available on Windows) that has a shorter impulse response also improved the latency slightly, and made it similar to the Xonar D1, which uses a CS4398 DAC (minimum phase filter, no pre-ringing).
  Poor latency on Windows is clearly a software/driver problem. Try using different drivers, different audio API (if possible), lower buffer size, maybe higher sample rate, and check any Windows audio settings that may affect latency/buffering.


----------



## ryssen

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Quote:
> 
> What drivers are you using? For better latency, try the Uni Xonar Drivers:
> 
> https://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


 

 Tried the newest drivers but says " please inset the Xonar Card"
  will try an older driver or I will ask in their support forum.
  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Houbi

maybe your eeprom got overwritten. i had that issue with a STX from a friend.
   
  please reinstall Firmware in eeprom as described here:  http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Xonar_EEPROM_Failure


----------



## rfvijn

Hey guys, quick question and concern here.
   
  Just installed Windows 8 and the latest Xonar Unified Drivers (1.64).  Note that I have also witnessed this problem with the Windows 8 Beta Drivers from ASUS.
   
  Every time I switch output between my headphones and speakers via the control panel, there is now a LOUD pop coming from the switched-to device.  The loudness of the pop is consistent and does not depend on what I have the volume set to.  The pop is very audible through my Senn H598s and can be heard over the normal analog switching noise that the card normally makes.
   
  Any thoughts?  I'd prefer to fix this if possible, but I'm more concerned right now that these pops will damage my headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mp0wer said:


> Will the DIP-8 adapters fit under the STX shield ?


 
  Barely, only like a few millimeters to spare.


----------



## LordShad0w

Quote: 





houbi said:


> maybe your eeprom got overwritten. i had that issue with a STX from a friend.
> 
> please reinstall Firmware in eeprom as described here:  http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Xonar_EEPROM_Failure


 
   
  I checked that when I first got the card it seems that there are no 64 bit drivers and will not work for me (Win7 x64). I ended up having to do a full windows reinstallation and then it seemed to accept the card, but I have been wary of installing the Uni Xonar drivers since I would prefer to not have to do a full reinstall again should something not work as intended.
 Any helpful tips on this are appreciated.
   
  Quote: 





rfvijn said:


> Hey guys, quick question and concern here.
> 
> Just installed Windows 8 and the latest Xonar Unified Drivers (1.64).  Note that I have also witnessed this problem with the Windows 8 Beta Drivers from ASUS.
> 
> ...


 

 I am curious about this as well. Mine does the same thing.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





lordshad0w said:


> I checked that when I first got the card it seems that there are no 64 bit drivers and will not work for me (Win7 x64). I ended up having to do a full windows reinstallation and then it seemed to accept the card, but I have been wary of installing the Uni Xonar drivers since I would prefer to not have to do a full reinstall again should something not work as intended.
> Any helpful tips on this are appreciated.
> 
> 
> I am curious about this as well. Mine does the same thing.


 
  The official drivers and the unofficial ones work perfectly on win7 x64, THe UniDrivers are much better. 
   
   
  to everyone - I have updated the wiki, included a no sound in games fix, clarified music settings, listed goto opamps.
   
  EDIT: and I included the results from stv014's Foobar2000 resampler testing.  (let me know If I interpreted it wrong.)
   
  so seriously just point the noobs towards it.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki


----------



## Blizzie

Hi guys,

 I have a few questions if you don't mind helping out.

 I'm currently using a set of LME49720 with my Audio Technica ATH-A700s. They're okay compared to the stock op-amps since they lack bass. The A700s already lack bass so pairing it with the 49720s makes it more undesirable.

 I know everyone has been opting to use LME49990s and have been saying they work well. I'm hard pressed to find a post detailing why they so highly used and comparisons of it versus the stock or other op-amps. So what makes them good?

 I will be grabbing six LME49990s from TI:
 http://www.ti.com/product/lme49990

 And a set of three of these dual SOIC-8 to DIP-8 adapters. Can anyone confirm that these will fit under the metal cover of the ASUS Xonar STX?
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Dual-SOIC-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-/320824421618?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item4ab2a02cf2

 I have soldered many SMD parts before so this will not be a problem. I will review the datasheet and ensure that everything is correct before the order. Is there anything else I should know?

 Thanks.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





blizzie said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have a few questions if you don't mind helping out.
> 
> ...


 
  from what I can tell, neutral sound, nothing added or removed, and enhanced clarity. Largish soundstage (smaller then AD797 which is the largest most probably tied with LME49860) and thats about it. I wouldn't be surprised if the soundstage is actually on par


----------



## Blizzie

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> from what I can tell, neutral sound, nothing added or removed, and enhanced clarity. Largish soundstage (smaller then AD797 which is the largest most probably tied with LME49860) and thats about it. I wouldn't be surprised if the soundstage is actually on par


 
   
  Sounds good. I'll give them a shot. Placing order tonight.
   
  Edit: Thinking of buying a 50 piece one hahah.. I see a future of lots of opamps. It doesn't come with the pins but I have plenty.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-Dual-SOIC-to-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-Narrow-2012-New-Version-/230797790202?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bc9ecbfa
   
  Since I'm doing that I'm looking at grabbing the following to try:
   
  LME49990
 OPA2137
  THS4032
  AD797
   
  Is there any other recommended op-amps to test?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





blizzie said:


> Sounds good. I'll give them a shot. Placing order tonight.
> 
> Edit: Thinking of buying a 50 piece one hahah.. I see a future of lots of opamps. It doesn't come with the pins but I have plenty.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/50pcs-Dual-SOIC-to-DIP-8-Convert-PCB-Adapter-SMD-OPA627-Narrow-2012-New-Version-/230797790202?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bc9ecbfa
> ...


 
  Pretty much got the top ones, There is a big list I have but lots of them have issues like too much input bias.
   
  here are some I really want to try:
  OPA1612 (A TI recommendation instead of the AD797)
  AD8599 (supposedly on par with the AD797 but smoother)
  HA5002 for buffer (and ****z and giggles)
   
  And if your feeling risky:
  LT1364 in IV and OPA2132P in buffer - quite favourable but FWIR not so safe


----------



## mowglycdb

I tried a few , but I ended up staying with LME49710HA  and LME49720HA for I/V, it has better clarity a bit more bass and amp, more analitical compared to other LME though, the only drawback is the slightly un natural sounding sometimes, dunno if other people have this impression about this combo.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Probably been asked before but at 263 pages I will not look.
   
  Is it stupid to buy the Essence as a DAC, use the analog RCA out into an external amp, and run WASAPI through it? Or would WASAPI bypass the Essence?


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> Is it stupid to buy the Essence as a DAC, use the analog RCA out into an external amp, and run WASAPI through it? Or would WASAPI bypass the Essence?


 
   
  It is not "stupid", but the card is not a very good value for the money then, especially if you do not care about recording, and since Dolby Headphone is not available on the RCA outputs. You may also consider these instead (there are of course even more options):
  - ODAC: if you do not need recording or gaming support at all; the main advantage is that it is external, and can be used with laptops
  - Titanium HD: if you do need gaming features; it is slightly cheaper than the Xonar STX, and is said to be comparable in terms of sound quality
  - Xonar D1, DX, D2, or D2X: for Dolby Headphone on line outputs, and in practice comparable DAC quality to the STX at a lower price. The D2 and D2X tend to be overpriced recently, though (I have seen them for $300 or more)
  Basically, the STX is only really worth it if you want the built-in TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier, or high quality recording (ADC) support. Other than that, the D1 and DX are a better value, but maybe the lack of EMI shielding is a problem in some PCs (not in mine, though).


----------



## repman244

Just finished soldering 2xTHS4032 to DIP-8 for my ST.....all I can say is: amazing.
   
  Compared to 2xLME49860NA:
  A bit better detail, much better bass (it's still punchy and detailed), I would say the soundstage is pretty much the same (to me)...one thing I noticed straight away is that electric guitars are much better sounding - more detail, power, don't know how exactly to describe it.
  All in all I think they are really nicely balanced and are a nice pairing with my HD600.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> Probably been asked before but at 263 pages I will not look.
> 
> Is it stupid to buy the Essence as a DAC, use the analog RCA out into an external amp, and run WASAPI through it? Or would WASAPI bypass the Essence?


 
  If your gong to be using an external headphone amplifier, better to save some cash and to buy the Xonar DX (PCI-E) or Xonar D1 (PCI), they have the same audio processor as the Essence STX & ST.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


stv014 said:


> Basically, the STX is only really worth it if you want the built-in TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier, or high quality recording (ADC) support. Other than that, the D1 and DX are a better value, but maybe the lack of EMI shielding is a problem in some PCs (not in mine, though).


 
   
  Not to mention, to be entirely honest, the high output impedance of this amplifier (10ohms) means that more likely than not, it probably won't sound as good on most headphones as with an amp with a lower impedance. Great amp with 300/250 ohm Senn's and Beyer's, but most people would probably be better off getting the Xonar DX with a more versatile multi gain amp.

 The STX doesn't like iems and low ohm full size cans like the K271, which has forced me to buy an amp for them to use out of the rca jacks.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Quote:
> 
> which has forced me to buy an amp for them to use out of the rca jacks.


 
   
  That was my question earlier, and what you quoted was a response to it.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


blackenedplague said:


> Probably been asked before but at 263 pages I will not look.
> 
> Is it stupid to buy the Essence as a DAC, use the analog RCA out into an external amp, and run WASAPI through it? Or would WASAPI bypass the Essence?


 
  Quote:


blackenedplague said:


> That was my question earlier, and what you quoted was a response to it.


 

 I know, I just wanted to add my 2 cents 

 WASAPI is good (and I use it) but you could try ASIO for the automatic sample rate switching.

 In regards to amps, the thing is that the amp in the STX still sounds great with many high impedance headphones. Although budgeting for a DX and higher end multi-gain amp would be better, as well as more convenient, I'm quite happy with using my STX with my AKG K400EP/Senn HD560 and everything else with the PA2V2 connected to the RCA's. Many portable amps won't reach the level of power necessary to drive the K400EP, so it was good for me --although the O2 will. You could consider it one of many options.


----------



## Mp0wer

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> WASAPI is good (and I use it) but you could try ASIO for the automatic sample rate switching.


 
   
   
  So if i play a 96khz/24bit file and then play a 44khz file it will switch automatically?


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





mp0wer said:


> So if i play a 96khz/24bit file and then play a 44khz file it will switch automatically?


 

 Yes, however for me it makes a loud pop so I have the SoX resampler set to 96kHz in Foobar all the time.


----------



## drewTT

I have a few questions as to how to best setup up the STX with an external DAC.
   
  I will be using the STX's coax out into the M-DAC.  Do I need to worry about what drivers the STX runs in this case?  Do they even make a difference?


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





drewtt said:


> I have a few questions as to how to best setup up the STX with an external DAC.
> 
> I will be using the STX's coax out into the M-DAC.  Do I need to worry about what drivers the STX runs in this case?  Do they even make a difference?


 

 I personally didn't notice any difference (even between official and the brainbit ones), try the latest and see if everything is working properly as it should, if not try different version or better yet, try the Uni Xonar which for me are the best there is (to keep it short I had horrible issues with official ones due to a driver conflict)


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





drewtt said:


> I have a few questions as to how to best setup up the STX with an external DAC.
> 
> I will be using the STX's coax out into the M-DAC.  Do I need to worry about what drivers the STX runs in this case?  Do they even make a difference?


 

 This is a perfect opportunity to A/B the analog-output sections of both devices, as the same drive will feed both the XONAR's® internal Texas Instruments® headphone-amplifier IC and the M-DAC on the digital coax output.  I'm running stably with the Unified XONAR® Driver, Release 1.53 (C-Media® CMI8000 Driver 7.12.8.1795), on an Asus® CM1630-06 under Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001 (Kernel 6.1.7601).  Be advised that Microsoft Corporation has not completely solved the random-shreik problem of the Windows 6.1/7.0 audio resampler, as of 17 November 2012.


----------



## networkn

I am keen to know what settings you guys use for Gain if you have the Sennhiser HD650's?
   
  Also any EQ Settings or other things you recommend when it comes to listening to pop etc?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





networkn said:


> I am keen to know what settings you guys use for Gain if you have the Sennhiser HD650's?
> 
> Also any EQ Settings or other things you recommend when it comes to listening to pop etc?


 
  I'm guessing you could use the STX's mid and high gain setting with the Senn HD650.


----------



## MonolithNZ

Hey guys. I currently have the STX RCA outputs connected to my Little Dot MKIII. I'd like to permanently leave my AD700s plugged into the headphone out, so that I can utilize dolby headphone when I'm gaming. What is the best method for easily switching between RCA/headphone out without having to input settings each time?
   
  Many thanks!!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





monolithnz said:


> Hey guys. I currently have the STX RCA outputs connected to my Little Dot MKIII. I'd like to permanently leave my AD700s plugged into the headphone out, so that I can utilize Dolby Headphone when I'm gaming. What is the best method for easily switching between RCA/headphone out without having to input settings each time?


 
  I believe your stuck with "having to input settings each time"


----------



## Houbi

Do you know "EssenceToggle"? It's a tool which alows you to toggle between RCA and headphone out by clicking ctrl-alt-s or what ever you want to.

https://sites.google.com/site/essencetoggle/home


----------



## MonolithNZ

Very helpful! Thanks.


----------



## connieflyer

Nice find on the essence toggle, works great.  Thank you.


----------



## Houbi

You're very welcome


----------



## networkn

Out of interest, why would you use RCA cables from the back of the Essence? I have Toslink to my Z5500 and use the dedicated 6.3mm headphone jack for my HD650's which I think is the optimal configuration correct?
   
  Without optical you can't get 5.1 from the Z5500's but the downside is that it uses the Z5500 decoder which isn't ideal for plugging headphones into? 
   
  Do I have this correct?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





networkn said:


> Out of interest, why would you use RCA cables from the back of the Essence? I have Toslink to my Z5500 and use the dedicated 6.3mm headphone jack for my HD650's which I think is the optimal configuration correct?
> 
> Without optical you can't get 5.1 from the Z5500's but the downside is that it uses the Z5500 decoder which isn't ideal for plugging headphones into?
> 
> Do I have this correct?


 
   
  Definitely. You're spot on. The Z5500's little control pod has a really lame headphone out on it.


----------



## themasterpc

Hi,
   
  I'm willing to change the default op-amps from the buffer and i/v section.
   
  I requested some samples from TI and LT , 2xOPA2107AP and 2xLT1057ACN8.(will arrive in some time)
   
  As I read from the previsious post, the best combination is LME49720HA in the buffer and 2x LT1057ACN8 in the I/V section.
   
  But I don't want to jump on buying the LME49720HA (yet) , want to use the following combinations:  1 x OPA2107AP in BUFFER and 2x LT1057ACN8 in I/V section or vice-versa, 1 LT1058ACN8 in buffer and 2 x OPA2107AP in I/V section, can somebody test this setups for me , ROB you have the knowledge and I saw that you have them , can you check ? .... thanks.
   
  Also if you have some cans below <60Ohms impedance, I have the ATH-50s , you know that those have 38Ohms.
   
  I'm seeking natural sound, balanced, with a lot of details, great soundstage ... this are missing from my card now.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





networkn said:


> Out of interest, why would you use RCA cables from the back of the Essence? I have Toslink to my Z5500 and use the dedicated 6.3mm headphone jack for my HD650's which I think is the optimal configuration correct?
> 
> Without optical you can't get 5.1 from the Z5500's but the downside is that it uses the Z5500 decoder which isn't ideal for plugging headphones into?
> 
> Do I have this correct?


 
  Actually if you have the ST the best would be to get the daughter board and feed the Z5500 with ALL the channels from the ST, since the DAC is much better. 
  But as for the headphones, bingo.
  Quote: 





themasterpc said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm willing to change the default op-amps from the buffer and i/v section.
> 
> ...


 
  Arg.... LME49720 is nasty, even TI admitted it has flaws, works well as a buffer, but really lacks bass.
   
  I have tried LT1057ANC8, not impressed, was awesum for a while, here is my short review I wrote a while back
   
  by the way buffer does not affect headphone jack.
   
*AKG K242HD:*
   
  [size=medium]
 Sound Signature: naturaly Smooth and tight, loses some detail due to not being as dynamic, slightly oldschool feal?

 Does not like medium or low quality files (256kb mp3 and lower)

 reveals clipping issues and artifacts in MP3s(subpar files) very easily
 not good to pair with analytical phones

 Naturally smooth (doesnt artificially smoothen or sharpen), also it doesn't tame naturally harsh recordings
 wonderful resonances especially on the entire drum kit (atleast wonderful for a start)
 warm and cold: as need be
 very good at detail retrieval (a bit of an oxymoron)
 After burn in becomes much more involving
 a bit of noise.

 Bass: not overpowering, tight with good impact, maybe a bit slow, and distorts easily?
 Mids: perfect balance, but resonates like hell
 Highs: smooth and tight, pleasant
 Soundstage: medium, smaller then the JRC, good imaging
 Speed: fast but appears slow due to slight lack of dynamics
 clarity test: 6/10
 Listening time: 300min+ depending on songs, avoiding dynamic complex songs.
[/size]


----------



## themasterpc

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Arg.... LME49720 is nasty, even TI admitted it has flaws, works well as a buffer, but really lacks bass.
> 
> I have tried LT1057ANC8, not impressed, was awesum for a while, here is my short review I wrote a while back
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hi,
   
  Thanks for the response.
   
  In this review do you reffer to LT1057ACN8 ?
   
  As for the buffer, I know that the cans do not require the buffer , I intend to use the line/s-pdif out also in the near distant future.
   
  I find hard to believe that some guys from here that tested this op-amp (LT1057ACN8) and found the most suitable in their setup. (not every human ear is the same, but what the heck)
   
  Anyway , then what op-amp is suitable in the I/V section ?


----------



## themasterpc

OPA2134 (OPA4134) wich TI uses in the TPA6120a2 datasheet ?


----------



## L36i

I'm currently running 2x LME49720NA + JRC2114D on my Xonar ST
  Anyone ever ran 2x LME49720HA + LME49720NA or 3x LME49720HA?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





l36i said:


> I'm currently running 2x LME49720NA + JRC2114D on my Xonar ST
> Anyone ever ran 2x LME49720HA + LME49720NA or 3x LME49720HA?


 
  yeah, but i wouldn't run that chip, ever.
   
  I even have the 2x 49710HA TO99 version mounted on an adapter, which is supposed to be the best, and stacked them like a retard (leaning tower of Pisa style) in the I/V section and it still sucked.
   
  THS4032 for a smooth sound, AD797 for absolute clinical clarity. LME49990 for technical perfection (I assume, don't have this one yet).


----------



## themasterpc

AD797 for xonar essence stx is not a good choice, this op-amp oscillates like hell, also the LME49990 has no dynamic performance.
   
  So, who has a scope to test some op-amps for this card and recommend some for i/v section ?
   
  You should check this fantastic thread, which shows the truth about op-amp rolling:
   
  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/191389-swapping-op-amps-you-have-checked-see-its-stable-havent-you.html


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





themasterpc said:


> AD797 for xonar essence stx is not a good choice, this op-amp oscillates like hell, also the LME49990 has no dynamic performance.
> 
> So, who has a scope to test some op-amps for this card and recommend some for i/v section ?
> 
> ...


 
  I know about the oscillation, so what, A few guys just buy packs of them, if one fails then replace it. 
   
  What sounds good, is what sounds good, and the LME49720, LME49860, LME49710 and their variants are bad chips, they have soundstage, but no bass. 
   
  basis for testing is purely listening. If it involved measurements and engineering then all opamps would sound the same given the right circumstances, but the truth is they don't.


----------



## networkn

Anyone know how I can see why sound is coming out of the wrong speakers in my 5.1 Setup with the Logitech Z5500 connected via Optical? I can't see an option to test the sound setup.


----------



## L36i

What about that 3rd chip they call the buffer? What its function and can it be upgraded? I'm having tough time finding info on that.
  So from what i understand LME49720NA is a bad choice and an upgrade to LME49720HA should be considered?
  Thanks.


----------



## mowglycdb

Quote: 





l36i said:


> I'm currently running 2x LME49720NA + JRC2114D on my Xonar ST
> Anyone ever ran 2x LME49720HA + LME49720NA or 3x LME49720HA?


 
   
   
  I've ran something similar.     Buffer LME49710HA + 2x LME49720HA (I/V) .    It has a lot of amp and it's clean, sound stage is okay, airy highs , detail is good, it's more full bodied than the counter parts LME49720NA, has better bass, though we have to take in consideration that the Xonar ST "is" short on bass. LME49720NA, I've heared LME49720NA is a bit harsh on the trebles, I'm not sure if it's dark as the LME49860NA with rolled off treble (which I didn't like at all). The only fall down about the LME49710HA/LME49720NA is that sound isn't that convicing a bit metalic if you compare it to the Audio GD NFB-1.32 DAC.


----------



## L36i

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> I've ran something similar.     Buffer LME49710HA + 2x LME49720HA (I/V) .    It has a lot of amp and it's clean, sound stage is okay, airy highs , detail is good, it's more full bodied than the counter parts LME49720NA, has better bass, though we have to take in consideration that the Xonar ST "is" short on bass. LME49720NA, I've heared LME49720NA is a bit harsh on the trebles, I'm not sure if it's dark as the LME49860NA with rolled off treble (which I didn't like at all). The only fall down about the LME49710HA/LME49720NA is that sound isn't that convicing a bit metalic if you compare it to the Audio GD NFB-1.32 DAC.


 
  So i can use a LME49720HA as a buffer correct? I might try that if that's the case...


----------



## Bojamijams

rfvijn said:


> Hey guys, quick question and concern here.
> 
> Just installed Windows 8 and the latest Xonar Unified Drivers (1.64).  Note that I have also witnessed this problem with the Windows 8 Beta Drivers from ASUS.
> 
> ...




The pop is a relay switching the output path from RCA out to headphone out. Its normal, nothing to worry about, don't switch output mid play (ie. stop music source, then switch)


----------



## Bojamijams

networkn said:


> Out of interest, why would you use RCA cables from the back of the Essence? I have Toslink to my Z5500 and use the dedicated 6.3mm headphone jack for my HD650's which I think is the optimal configuration correct?
> 
> Without optical you can't get 5.1 from the Z5500's but the downside is that it uses the Z5500 decoder which isn't ideal for plugging headphones into?
> 
> Do I have this correct?




The z5500 decoder isn't optimal for more then just headphones. Its a low-mid end DAC. So by using the RCA out on the Essence you have much better quality audio that the Z5500 merely has to amplify (which isn't great either but another low-mid)


----------



## genclaymore

Only thing you should really worry about is getting a loud pop while your listern to music, as I had that happen to me a few times with the Xonar STX. Which catches me off guard when it happens.But it usually happens for me atleast when I used the headphone out on the STX, But not the Rca out when running out to a external amp.


----------



## Bojamijams

elwappo99 said:


> Definitely. You're spot on. The Z5500's little control pod has a really lame headphone out on it.




Have you tested the 2137P's yet? Nobody else seems to have and I'm curious what other people think of it


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





networkn said:


> Anyone know how I can see why sound is coming out of the wrong speakers in my 5.1 Setup with the Logitech Z5500 connected via Optical? I can't see an option to test the sound setup.


 
  I'm not sure what you mean when you say sound is coming out of the wrong speakers. Can you be more specific?
   
   
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Have you tested the 2137P's yet? Nobody else seems to have and I'm curious what other people think of it


 
   
   
  Thumbs down! They sound fantastic, but have incredible distortion levels!!!!


----------



## Bojamijams

What kind of distortion levels? 

I've not heard anything like it. Its possible one of the op-amps isn't inserted properly


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> What kind of distortion levels?
> I've not heard anything like it. Its possible one of the op-amps isn't inserted properly


 
   
  It was just using it on really high volumes. I run the RCA's to a pair of Hivi speakers and they created a lot of distortion at volumes > 80%


----------



## networkn

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean when you say sound is coming out of the wrong speakers. Can you be more specific?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What I mean, is that sound that should be coming from the centre speaker, in games, like Crysis2, all of a sudden are coming from the left front speaker! Very annoying.
   
  I must say I am struggling somewhat to understand this STX Control Panel and it's different connections, as for some reason I have changed a setting, I can't see, and now I can get sound from my speakers OR headphones but not both as was happening a few days ago (Even though I would like an easy way to stop sound from my HP easily.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





networkn said:


> What I mean, is that sound that should be coming from the centre speaker, in games, like Crysis2, all of a sudden are coming from the left front speaker! Very annoying.
> 
> I must say I am struggling somewhat to understand this STX Control Panel and it's different connections, as for some reason I have changed a setting, I can't see, and now I can get sound from my speakers OR headphones but not both as was happening a few days ago (Even though I would like an easy way to stop sound from my HP easily.


 
   
  Weird.... I have no idea other than the possibility that the speakers are hooked up wrong, or the software in Crysis is messing them up. You can open Windows control panel --> sound. Highlight the Asus Xonar item and click "configure".  In that you should be able to click individual speakers and get a test tone. Does that work?


----------



## bcschmerker4

elwappo99 said:


> It was just using it on really high volumes. I run the RCA's to a pair of Hivi speakers and they created a lot of distortion at volumes > 80%



As I understand things, the ST and STX require external amps, e.g. my recently-purchased Pyle® PCA-2 Stereo Power Amplifier (40W x 2), from the dual-RCA outputs ("2 Speakers") to drive anything but internally-amplified speakers, as ASUSTeK Computer only runs the buffer dual op amp to the dual RCA's. (The 1/4" Headphone jack has a Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 dual audio amplifier IC.) What wattage RMS is available to those Hivi's?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> As I understand things, the ST and STX require external amps, e.g. my recently-purchased Pyle® PCA-2 Stereo Power Amplifier (40W x 2), from the dual-RCA outputs ("2 Speakers") to drive anything but internally-amplified speakers, as ASUSTeK Computer only runs the buffer dual op amp to the dual RCA's. (The 1/4" Headphone jack has a Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 dual audio amplifier IC.) What wattage RMS is available to those Hivi's?


 
   
   
  I'm not sure how much power the Hivis get, they just have a built in amp. However, I had used them a long time with the stock opamps with no issue, then I changed over to the 2137 I got incredibly high distortion levels when the Asus soundcard's volume was set to really high or really low. I thought it was the speakers at first, so I maxed out the sound card volume and got the same distortion levels at every power level of the speakers, if that makes any sense. I also hooked it up to an external headphone amp and had the same issue.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





l36i said:


> What about that 3rd chip they call the buffer? What its function and can it be upgraded? I'm having tough time finding info on that.
> So from what i understand LME49720NA is a bad choice and an upgrade to LME49720HA should be considered?
> Thanks.


 
   
  Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> I've ran something similar.     Buffer LME49710HA + 2x LME49720HA (I/V) .    It has a lot of amp and it's clean, sound stage is okay, airy highs , detail is good, it's more full bodied than the counter parts LME49720NA, has better bass, though we have to take in consideration that the Xonar ST "is" short on bass. LME49720NA, I've heared LME49720NA is a bit harsh on the trebles, I'm not sure if it's dark as the LME49860NA with rolled off treble (which I didn't like at all). The only fall down about the LME49710HA/LME49720NA is that sound isn't that convicing a bit metalic if you compare it to the Audio GD NFB-1.32 DAC.


 
   
  Quote: 





l36i said:


> So i can use a LME49720HA as a buffer correct? I might try that if that's the case...


 
   
  Ok seriously you two, just read a bit, in the past 5 pages I have mentioned atleast twice per page that they are ****. the ENTIRE LME49*** range!!!!! get them if you wan't but they have no bass. This excludes the LME49990.
   
  Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> As I understand things, the ST and STX require external amps, e.g. my recently-purchased Pyle® PCA-2 Stereo Power Amplifier (40W x 2), from the dual-RCA outputs ("2 Speakers") to drive anything but internally-amplified speakers, as ASUSTeK Computer only runs the buffer dual op amp to the dual RCA's. (The 1/4" Headphone jack has a Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 dual audio amplifier IC.) What wattage RMS is available to those Hivi's?


 
  You have OCD don't you?


----------



## networkn

Right now sound is outputting to my Speakers via optical toslink and my HD650's at the same time, how can I easily switch the headphones on and off, with preferably a keyboard shortcut or single click?


----------



## utuser

Hi,
   
  I've got a problem at the moment with the dual analog outputs on my Essence STX.
   
  When I'm in "2 Speakers" mode in the Xonar Audio Center, audio comes out only through my speakers and not my headphones (As intended.)
   
  When I'm in "Headphones" mode (the amped port), I'm hearing a much quieter/distorted version of the audio coming through my speakers at the same time (the RCA ports) (headphones audio quality is fine though).
   
  Is this a fault with this card?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





utuser said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've got a problem at the moment with the dual analog outputs on my Essence STX.
> 
> ...


 
   
  When in "Headphone" mode, analog audio is really only expected to go thru the first two (I/V) op-amps and the STX's 1/4" headphone jack port only.
  I'm guessing while in "Headphone" mode,the audio signal is leaking thru the 3rd "buffer" op-amp to the RCA jacks.
  Headphone jack only use 2 op-amps, the RCA output uses all three op-amps.


----------



## utuser

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> When in "Headphone" mode, analog audio is really only expected to go thru the first two (I/V) op-amps and the STX's 1/4" headphone jack port only.
> I'm guessing while in "Headphone" mode,the audio signal is leaking thru the 3rd "buffer" op-amp to the RCA jacks.
> Headphone jack only use 2 op-amps, the RCA output uses all three op-amps.


 
  Yep, that was it, buffer op-amp was inserted the wrong way causing this issue. Had to use another one, but works great now!


----------



## Snoozz

Hi. i'm new here and need advice.
What OPamps are better for upgarde stock card?
I've heard a lot about LME49720HA and LME49860, but lack of bass is not good for me.. Choosing between LME49990 and AD797BR. What's better for headphones HD 650? or you can advise me something else 
Have read many threads on russians audiophiles forum and people don't have conclusion.
P.S. Sry for my english


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





snoozz said:


> Hi. i'm new here and need advice.
> What OPamps are better for upgarde stock card?
> I've heard a lot about LME49720HA and LME49860, but lack of bass is not good for me.. Choosing between LME49990 and AD797BR. What's better for headphones HD 650? or you can advise me something else
> 
> ...


 
  Please add your country in your Community profile.
   
  I've used the LME49860NAs and now currently using the AD797BRs.
   
  I would say to get the LME49990 or the 4032 op-amps.


----------



## Houbi

For a "tubey" sound take some AD8620BR (NOT AD8620AR)

I just love them!


----------



## wilflare

this thread is making me regret selling my Xonar Essence STX.. (got a Audinst MX-1 to replace it)


----------



## DamageInc77

I replaced my 49720s with frugalphiles 49990s. The sound has marginally improved and the bass a better and the mids and highs are slightly more clear.
   
  These are the ones I bought. You will need 2 of them for your ST/STX:
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190762476231?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## mowglycdb

Quote: 





utuser said:


> Yep, that was it, buffer op-amp was inserted the wrong way causing this issue. Had to use another one, but works great now!


 
   
  WAT? doing that fries the opamp, and if you have bad luck it could fry something in your sound card, you were lucky. I had a OPA627AU (only had left out, the right was dead) I inserted it in the wrong way in my ST and  it started smokin' as soon as I turned my comp on.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> WAT? doing that fries the opamp, and if you have bad luck it could fry something in your sound card, you were lucky. I had a OPA627AU (only had left out, the right was dead) I inserted it in the wrong way in my ST and  it started smokin' as soon as I turned my comp on.


 
  Mine wasn't as obvious, but my right channel on the HP fried a month later


----------



## leinad_13

I've got the STX and the DT 770 Pro 80 ohm headphones. My top priority is positional audio / best sound stage with gaming on Dolby Headphone. I would appreciate your opinions:

 LME49720HA's to balance out the strong bass of the DT 770's
 Or LME49990's for a more neutral sound out of the card and maybe eq out excess bass of the headphones?
 Or are the stock op amps a good match?
   
  Also, is eq'ing via the drivers a no-no?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Houbi

Higher ohm headphones would have better fit the STX.

I would much prefer LME49860 over LME49720.

AD8620BR says bye bye two both of them


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





leinad_13 said:


> I've got the STX and the DT 770 Pro 80 ohm headphones. My top priority is positional audio / best sound stage with gaming on Dolby Headphone. I would appreciate your opinions:
> 
> LME49720HA's to balance out the strong bass of the DT 770's
> Or LME49990's for a more neutral sound out of the card and maybe eq out excess bass of the headphones?
> ...


 
  You could try both methods to see which you prefer.
  LME49860 is better then LME49720


----------



## cib24

I have an ASUS Xonar Essence ST (the PCI version) and currently use Beyerdynamic DT880 250ohm's on the extra high gain (+18db) setting at about 25% volume. It seems to work great but I just ordered the new Phillips Fidelio X1 headphones which have an impedance of 30 ohms. I know that the ST card has a headphone impedance of 10 ohms and that this may be too high for the Fidelio X1's for optimal sound quality. I'm not entirely sure of the math involved but I think it is roughly a factor of 10, which means that I should be looking at a sound card with a headphone impedance output of 3 ohms right? Is there any card out there that can do this properly without me resorting to any jerry rigging impedance adapter? I do a lot of gaming and watching films as well so the Dolby Headphone function or other virtual surround functions on other cards are pretty important and I don't want to lose that capability.
   
  Advice? Or should I not really be worried?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> I have an ASUS Xonar Essence ST (the PCI version) and currently use Beyerdynamic DT880 250ohm's on the extra high gain (+18db) setting at about 25% volume. It seems to work great but I just ordered the new Phillips Fidelio X1 headphones which have an impedance of 30 ohms. I know that the ST card has a headphone impedance of 10 ohms and that this may be too high for the Fidelio X1's for optimal sound quality. I'm not entirely sure of the math involved but I think it is roughly a factor of 10, which means that I should be looking at a sound card with a headphone impedance output of 3 ohms right? Is there any card out there that can do this properly without me resorting to any jerry rigging impedance adapter? I do a lot of gaming and watching films as well so the Dolby Headphone function or other virtual surround functions on other cards are pretty important and I don't want to lose that capability.
> 
> Advice? Or should I not really be worried?


 
  10-Ohms is the lowest I've ever seen for sound card (or motherboard).
  Try the Essence ST with the Philips Fidelio X1, see how it sounds.
  You could always sell off the Essence ST and replace it with an Xonar DX and O2 amplifier (or the new Schiit Magni amp).
  The O2 has a low impedance of .5-Ohms
  The Essence ST and Xonar DX use the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> 10-Ohms is the lowest I've ever seen for sound card (or motherboard).
> Try the Essence ST with the Philips Fidelio X1, see how it sounds.
> You could always sell off the Essence ST and replace it with an Xonar DX and O2 amplifier (or the new Schiit Magni amp).
> The O2 has a low impedance of .5-Ohms
> The Essence ST and Xonar DX use the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.


 

 When you say 10 ohms is the lowest, does that include sound cards without an amp? Because if all sound cards and motherboards have a 10 ohms impedance level then how does buying a Xonar DX and using an amp with it make any difference? What kind of math is involved in determining how an external amp responds when connected to a sound card if it has a higher impedance than the amp?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> When you say 10 ohms is the lowest, does that include sound cards without an amp? Because if all sound cards and motherboards have a 10 ohms impedance level then how does buying a Xonar DX and using an amp with it make any difference? What kind of math is involved in determining how an external amp responds when connected to a sound card if it has a higher impedance than the amp?


 
   
  Sound card output impedance is usually not an issue with an external amplifier, since the line input of those typically has at least several kΩ of impedance, which is also close to purely resistive in the audio band.
 By the way, the Xonar DX has 100 Ω output impedance, rather than 10, while motherboard headphone outputs have varying impedance, but it is often as high as 75 Ω. Do not plug headphones into motherboard line outputs, because they can have 200+ Ω impedance, and use 10 or even 4.7 uF coupling capacitors, so the sound will be poor and underpowered.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> When you say 10 ohms is the lowest, does that include sound cards without an amp? Because if all sound cards and motherboards have a 10 ohms impedance level then how does buying a Xonar DX and using an amp with it make any difference? What kind of math is involved in determining how an external amp responds when connected to a sound card if it has a higher impedance than the amp?


 
  Most current sound cards (and all older ones) have a higher then 10-Ohm output impedance, like 35-Ohm, 47-Ohm, 75-Ohm or 100-Ohm.
  The Essence STX & ST (Asus Phoebus) are some of the few sound cards with a 10-Ohm impedance, I know there are a few others, but I do not know for sure which models.
  (chances are the sound cards with the built in amp. have the low impedance)
  All non-amped sound cards (& motherboards) are going to have a higher impedance.
   
  When you plug a external headphone amplifier into the Xonar DX (or any non-amped sound card), the sound card's impedance no longer count's. just the external amplifier's impedance.
  A normal "line-out" jack (like RCAs) is going to have a high impedance, which is normal.
  I guess you could say non-amped sound cards use a 3.5mm line-out jack (green) that pretends to be a headphone jack.


----------



## Invisible

FINALLY soldered 6 LME49990, THS4032, and AD797BRZ after a good looooong wait.  I definitely like AD797 better than LME49990...everything just blends in better in AD797 compared to LME49990.  And there's...4032, I put them in STX and saw white smoke...didn't want to risk it so I powered down comp, touched the chip and it was hot..too hot.   I have the THS4032[*ID*], so I'm guessing that just doesn't work at all for the STX.   Any help would be much appreciated. ^^
   
  Oh, also bought OPA2107AP, but I'll let my ears enjoy 797 couple of weeks before I'll swap.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





invisible said:


> FINALLY soldered 6 LME49990, THS4032, and AD797BRZ after a good looooong wait.  I definitely like AD797 better than LME49990...everything just blends in better in AD797 compared to LME49990.  And there's...4032, I put them in STX and saw white smoke...didn't want to risk it so I powered down comp, touched the chip and it was hot..too hot.   I have the THS4032[*ID*], so I'm guessing that just doesn't work at all for the STX.   Any help would be much appreciated. ^^
> 
> Oh, also bought OPA2107AP, but I'll let my ears enjoy 797 couple of weeks before I'll swap.


 
  It does work, I use it. 
   
  Maybe you joined some pins?


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Most current sound cards (and all older ones) have a higher then 10-Ohm output impedance, like 35-Ohm, 47-Ohm, 75-Ohm or 100-Ohm.
> The Essence STX & ST (Asus Phoebus) are some of the few sound cards with a 10-Ohm impedance, I know there are a few others, but I do not know for sure which models.
> (chances are the sound cards with the built in amp. have the low impedance)
> All non-amped sound cards (& motherboards) are going to have a higher impedance.
> ...


 
  Ok, so if I still want to use Dolby Headphone with the Essence ST then I must use the headphone jack which has the amp. And I can't/shouldn't attach an external amp to the ST's amped headphone jack because then I would be double amping...So, if I decide to keep the Phillips Fidelio X1's and want to potentially get the best out of them then I should sell the Essence ST, buy something like the Titanium HD, and then run an external amp from the line out?
   
  If that is the case it sounds like quite a bit of trouble for the headphones I bought, haha. At least I can say that I was looking at trying out the Titanium HD anyway since the Dolby Headphone and gaming features on the Essence ST leave a lot to be desired. Well, I will only go down that route if I actually end up liking the Fidelio X1's and/or end up purchasing another pair of low impedance headphones.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> Ok, so if I still want to use Dolby Headphone with the Essence ST then I must use the headphone jack which has the amp. And I can't/shouldn't attach an external amp to the ST's amped headphone jack because then I would be double amping...So, if I decide to keep the Phillips Fidelio X1's and want to potentially get the best out of them then I should sell the Essence ST, buy something like the Titanium HD, and then run an external amp from the line out?
> 
> If that is the case it sounds like quite a bit of trouble for the headphones I bought, haha. At least I can say that I was looking at trying out the Titanium HD anyway since the Dolby Headphone and gaming features on the Essence ST leave a lot to be desired. Well, I will only go down that route if I actually end up liking the Fidelio X1's and/or end up purchasing another pair of low impedance headphones.


 
  Using the headphone jack to RCA works perfectly fine, don't worry about that double amping business with this card.
   
  But since the HD is only $109 right now and you don't like DH, it would probably be a better option. Really the biggest advantage the STX has over the HD is its more powerful amp and lower output impedence which you will be negating with an external amp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> Ok, so if I still want to use Dolby Headphone with the Essence ST then I must use the headphone jack which has the amp. And I can't/shouldn't attach an external amp to the ST's amped headphone jack because then I would be double amping...So, if I decide to keep the Phillips Fidelio X1's and want to potentially get the best out of them then I should sell the Essence ST, buy something like the Titanium HD, and then run an external amp from the line out?
> 
> If that is the case it sounds like quite a bit of trouble for the headphones I bought, haha. At least I can say that I was looking at trying out the Titanium HD anyway since the Dolby Headphone and gaming features on the Essence ST leave a lot to be desired. Well, I will only go down that route if I actually end up liking the Fidelio X1's and/or end up purchasing another pair of low impedance headphones.


 
  You could also get a refurb Creative Labs Titanium (non-HD) for $44.99 at Newegg and connect the external head amp to it.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043
   
  You would save $64 over buying the Titanium HD and still get all the same gaming features.


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> You could also get a refurb Creative Labs Titanium (non-HD) for $44.99 at Newegg and connect the external head amp to it.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043
> 
> You would save $64 over buying the Titanium HD and still get all the same gaming features.


 
   
  I will have to first see if I can get the Titanium HD (or regular Titanium) from my parents or something as a Christmas gift since they live in the States but I currently live in London. Then they can bring it over for Christmas. Otherwise, the Titanium HD goes for £110 here in London which is $170. 
   
  Anyway, I always wondered...the Essence ST has 3 amp settings (normal, high and extra high) but if you are using the normal setting which is for headphones with less than 64 ohms, is the amp even turned on or is it just like using a non-amped line out? Meaning, if I did get an external amp and plug it into the headphone jack and use the normal gain setting would I still be double amping?
   
  What is the potential negative impact of double amping?
   
  The Titanium with an Objective2 is the most likely option if I keep the X1's but if I could potentially save money on not purchasing a new sound card then it would be worth it to know about the potential negatives of connecting the amp to the Essence ST headphone jack.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> I will have to first see if I can get the Titanium HD (or regular Titanium) from my parents or something as a Christmas gift since they live in the States but I currently live in London. Then they can bring it over for Christmas. Otherwise, the Titanium HD goes for £110 here in London which is $170.
> 
> Anyway, I always wondered...the Essence ST has 3 amp settings (normal, high and extra high) but if you are using the normal setting which is for headphones with less than 64 ohms, is the amp even turned on or is it just like using a non-amped line out? Meaning, if I did get an external amp and plug it into the headphone jack and use the normal gain setting would I still be double amping?
> 
> ...


 
  Those three settings only effect volume. I have found that using the highest setting, at 100% system volume going into my amp gives me the same volume as the line out going into my amp.
   
  From my own subjective listening, there are absolutely no negative effects using the headphone out other than it can amplify a ground loop. A cheater plug fixed that for my Asgard, and I don't think that the O2 uses 3 prongs so you wouldn't have that.
   
  The headphone out has 117dB SNR. That's really good. No problem amplifying that.
   
  Also, you might want to look into Schiit's new Magni for an amp. No reviews that I know of yet but it has some pretty good specs and the most power for $100 that I've seen.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> I will have to first see if I can get the Titanium HD (or regular Titanium) from my parents or something as a Christmas gift since they live in the States but I currently live in London. Then they can bring it over for Christmas. Otherwise, the Titanium HD goes for £110 here in London which is $170.
> 
> Anyway, I always wondered...the Essence ST has 3 amp settings (normal, high and extra high) but if you are using the normal setting which is for headphones with less than 64 ohms, is the amp even turned on or is it just like using a non-amped line out? Meaning, if I did get an external amp and plug it into the headphone jack and use the normal gain setting would I still be double amping?
> 
> ...


 
  You can have your parents order the refurb Titanium (non-HD) from Newegg for $44.99 or the Titanium HD for $109 (free shipping to them?) and bring it with them on the plane.
  Lots of people have used "double amping" and have been fine, but can not say for sure with your setup (just roll the dice).
  An external amp can connect to the Essence ST's RCA output for great two channel (stereo) audio.
  As the Essence ST uses a true headphone amplifier, the < 64-Ohm setting just means the headphone jack gets less voltage boost and I would guess the best setting for "double amping".
   
  If you sold off the Essence ST and DT990, that would leave you plenty of cash for a headphone amplifier (O2, new $155) and whatever sound card you buy (Titanium HD?).


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> You can have your parents order the refurb Titanium (non-HD) from Newegg for $44.99 or the Titanium HD for $109 (free shipping to them?) and bring it with them on the plane.
> Lots of people have used "double amping" and have been fine, but can not say for sure with your setup (just roll the dice).
> An external amp can connect to the Essence ST's RCA output for great two channel (stereo) audio.
> *As the Essence ST uses a true headphone amplifier, the < 64-Ohm setting just means the headphone jack gets less voltage boost and I would guess the best setting for "double amping".*
> ...


 
  From my understanding this voltage boost is only the result of the volume increasing. stv014 posted some code a while back that showed how this setting was interpreted by Alsa drivers, and it only bumped up/knocked down the volume. 
   
   
  But yeah J&R is currently offering free shipping on the HD. They're the guys selling it on Amazon right now.


----------



## fatmaggot

Does anyone have any idea of how the ST/STX would compare against a schiit magni/modi combo. At about the same price, I am not sure. I am more inclined to look into the magni/modi combo, as buying a soundcard for my computer would make a big difference in price for someone of my income. any help would be great.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fatmaggot said:


> Does anyone have any idea of how the ST/STX would compare against a schiit magni/modi combo. At about the same price, I am not sure. I am more inclined to look into the magni/modi combo, as buying a soundcard for my computer would make a big difference in price for someone of my income. any help would be great.


 
  I'm going to guess there will be reviews coming out in the next 2 to 3 days on the Magni/Modi.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


fatmaggot said:


> Does anyone have any idea of how the ST/STX would compare against a schiit magni/modi combo. At about the same price, I am not sure. I am more inclined to look into the magni/modi combo, as buying a soundcard for my computer would make a big difference in price for someone of my income. any help would be great.


 
   
  Well, if the Magni's output impedance is really less than 0.1 ohm's like Schiit says, then it should be a lot more versatile than the amp in the ST/STX, which has a 10ohm output impedance.


----------



## stv014

If you would prefer to have the features of a sound card, you may also consider the combination of the Magni and the non-HD X-Fi Titanium (for gaming in particular; you may even be able to find a used HD within your budget), or the Xonar D1 or DX.


----------



## Snoozz

invisible said:


> FINALLY soldered 6 LME49990, THS4032, and AD797BRZ after a good looooong wait.  I definitely like AD797 better than LME49990...everything just blends in better in AD797 compared to LME49990.  And there's...4032, I put them in STX and saw white smoke...didn't want to risk it so I powered down comp, touched the chip and it was hot..too hot.   I have the THS4032[*ID*], so I'm guessing that just doesn't work at all for the STX.   Any help would be much appreciated. ^^
> 
> Oh, also bought OPA2107AP, but I'll let my ears enjoy 797 couple of weeks before I'll swap.




AD797 need 2 pcs on each dip? or only 1 like here http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pieces-AD797AR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-NE5534-/120757516362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1db5784a?

I know that LME49990 needed 2pcs on each channel. 6 all.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





snoozz said:


> AD797 need 2 pcs on each dip? or only 1 like here http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pieces-AD797AR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-NE5534-/120757516362?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1db5784a?
> I know that LME49990 needed 2pcs on each channel. 6 all.


 
  The ones in the eBay listing are one single channel op-amp soldered on to a SOIC to DIP-8 adapter, will not work on the STX/ST.
   
  The three op-amps sockets (DIP-8) on the STX/ST are dual channel each, the stock (factory installed) op-amps are dual channel (DIP-8) op-amps.
  The LME49990 and AD797XX are single channel (SOIC) op-amps.
  So you need two single channel (SOIC) op-amps soldered on to a dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter, that can then be installed on the STX/ST's DIP-8 socket.
  Only the two I/V sockets effect the headphone output, "Headphone" and "FP headphones" (front panel jack) settings
  All three sockets, (two I/V sockets and the one buffer socket) effect the line-out outputs, "Speaker" (RCAs) and "FP Speaker" (front panel jack) settings.
   
  This who I bought my AD797BRs from.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261100530695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccacdec07


----------



## tofu

fatmaggot said:


> Does anyone have any idea of how the ST/STX would compare against a schiit magni/modi combo. At about the same price, I am not sure. I am more inclined to look into the magni/modi combo, as buying a soundcard for my computer would make a big difference in price for someone of my income. any help would be great.




no one really knows what the new schiit amp/dac sound like, which makes all the hype surrounding them pretty baffling. i guess they're expecting a $99 bifrost.

i'd like to say "i'm sure it'll sound just as good, if not better", but who really knows? wait until a few in depth reviews are published. i'd hold off on buying anything for now.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The ones in the eBay listing are one single channel op-amp soldered on to a SOIC to DIP-8 adapter, will not work on the STX/ST.
> 
> The three op-amps sockets (DIP-8) on the STX/ST are dual channel each, the stock (factory installed) op-amps are dual channel (DIP-8) op-amps.
> The LME49990 and AD797XX are single channel (SOIC) op-amps.
> ...


 

 After reading the specs on the Analog Devices AD797 at Analog.com, I find it a definite rival to the NSC®/TI® LM6172IN for the I-V section upgrade (to supersede the stock JRC2114D) on my own STX (postponed due to an issue at work) and a to-consider for the line-level buffer (to supersede the stock NSC®/TI® LM4562N).  How's it fare for preference vs. the NSC®/TI® dual/hex--LME49990MA set-ups, in terms of per cent?


----------



## cssarrow

Has any of you put _*MUSES01*_ or *MUSES8920* op amps on your Xonar Essence STX?

It sounds wonderful.

Too bad they're $50 each.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Has any of you put _*MUSES01*_ or *MUSES8920* op amps on your Xonar Essence STX?
> It sounds wonderful.
> Too bad they're $50 each.


 
  Many opamps can get very pricey, they are like anything else, some think they are worth the price and other not so much.


----------



## genclaymore

yea and more when you buying them already on the adapters already, it best to have some one you trust to put them on adapters for you. That way you get it done cheaply or with a trade.


----------



## No Idea

Hello, having a little problem with my STX and I was wondering of anyone could help me out 
   
  I was told on a number of occasions that the Xonar STX would be more than enough to drive a pair of Q701's despite people buying E9's and what not. However I'm struggling to get them to any decent volume even at full volume! Not that I ever have them at full because there is this popping sound that occurs when ever i go over 30% volume... 
   
  I have the most up-to-date drivers from ASUS and have turned on the HP "Extra High Gain" setting, that has got me where I am now. Does anyone have any ideas? Do I need an external amp? (Bearing in mind I spent all my money on a GTX 670... :/ lol)
   
  Thank anyway,
   
  -Tom


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





no idea said:


> Hello, having a little problem with my STX and I was wondering of anyone could help me out
> 
> I was told on a number of occasions that the Xonar STX would be more than enough to drive a pair of Q701's despite people buying E9's and what not. However I'm struggling to get them to any decent volume even at full volume! Not that I ever have them at full because there is this popping sound that occurs when ever i go over 30% volume...
> 
> I have the most up-to-date drivers from ASUS and have turned on the HP "Extra High Gain" setting, that has got me where I am now. Does anyone have any ideas? Do I need an external amp? (Bearing in mind I spent all my money on a GTX 670... :/ lol)


 
  The STX's and E9 are about equal and use the same Amplifier chip (6120A2).
  Did you disable the motherboard's built in audio (disabled in bios)?
  What happens when the amplifier is on the Normal Gain setting?


----------



## No Idea

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The STX's and E9 are about equal and use the same Amplifier chip (6120A2).
> Did you disable the motherboard's built in audio (disabled in bios)?
> What happens when the amplifier is on the Normal Gain setting?


 
   
  Disabled MoBo's audio as suggested, no noticeable difference (thanks for reminding me though, needed to alter graphics settings). I put it on the normal gain and the distortion seems to have gone but so has the volume :/


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





no idea said:


> Disabled MoBo's audio as suggested, no noticeable difference (thanks for reminding me though, needed to alter graphics settings). I put it on the normal gain and the distortion seems to have gone but so has the volume :/


 
  Do you have anything else to test the Q701s with, like a receiver?
  Is the STX's internal power connector connected?
  Do you have other headphone you can test with the STX?


----------



## No Idea

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Do you have anything else to test the Q701s with, like a receiver?
> Is the STX's internal power connector connected?
> Do you have other headphone you can test with the STX?


 
   
  Nope  this is my first proper setup  And as for the power yes, I think so atleast; I pushed the connector in as hard as I dared!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





no idea said:


> Nope  this is my first proper setup  And as for the power yes, I think so at least; I pushed the connector in as hard as I dared!


 
  Any friends with receivers?
   
  Long shot.
  Try the 3rd party "Unified Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit.


----------



## Dat bass

Interested in this card, can this card output audio through the coxial spdif port and the speak line outs at the same time?


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





dat bass said:


> Interested in this card, can this card output audio through the coxial spdif port and the speak line outs at the same time?


 

 In fact it does; the XONAR® Essence™ ST and STX can drive the Digital Out (RCA coaxial or 3.5mm optical) and one of the three analog outputs simultaneously.  The single analog-stereo output is switchable to dual RCA jacks through a dual-op-amp buffer ("2 Speakers," equipped with a National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM4562N from the factory); a 1/4" TRS jack ("Headphone," equipped with a Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 dual audio amplifier, 10.7Ω source impedance for each output channel); and the internal AC97-compatible header ("Front 2 Speakers," "Front Headphone").  Running under Microsoft® Windows® XP or 6-up, the Digital Out can run either as a PCM source or as a Dolby® Digital 5.1 feed to an external surround processor(/amplifier).


----------



## sancco

Hi everyone.  I've done my best to search the forums regarding my query, but to no avail.
   
  I'm wondering if there's a meaningful difference between the 'ratios' or 'balance' of the various volume and gain settings on an Essence STX in the Xonar Audio Center, and generally in audio.  i.e. Does using a high gain and low volume result in the same audio output as low gain and high volume?
   
  The three settings I'm referring to in particular are the Gain, the Mixer (Left & Right) and the Volume Knob.  At the moment I have the gain off (+0db) and the mixer at 32 of 100.  Having the mixer at this level means that my volume knob has lots of listenable volume levels, where as if I had it at 15 it would always be too soft and at 45 the difference between too loud and too soft would be one notch.
   
  Also is there any harm having my sample rate set to 96KHz, even though all my music is 44.1KHz.  I have it set to this because it's the default level, and also some PC games utilise this sample rate effectively too (so I'm told).
   
  I should probably mention my cans .   Beyerdynamic DT-250s 80ohm.
   
  So yeah, to sum up my rambling: Does high gain/low volume sound the same as low gain/high volume?  Also does having the sample rate set at 96KHz negatively affect my listening to of 44.1KHz audio.  Thanks in advance!!


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





sancco said:


> Hi everyone.  I've done my best to search the forums regarding my query, but to no avail.
> 
> I'm wondering if there's a meaningful difference between the 'ratios' or 'balance' of the various volume and gain settings on an Essence STX in the Xonar Audio Center, and generally in audio.  i.e. Does using a high gain and low volume result in the same audio output as low gain and high volume?
> 
> ...


 
  According to what has been said in this thread about the gain settings on the Essence ST/STX it merely changes the output volume. So yet, theoretically high gain/low volume and low gain/high volume should sound the same. I have DT 880 250 ohm headphones and run them on extra high gain at about 25-30 volume. It just sounds better to me than when I ran the headphones on high gain at about 40-50 volume. With my Fidelio X1's (30 ohm) I actually prefer running them on high gain with 25-30 volume rather than normal gain at 50 volume. I think it is just preference really at the end of the day.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *sancco* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The three settings I'm referring to in particular are the Gain, the Mixer (Left & Right) and the Volume Knob.  At the moment I have the gain off (+0db) and the mixer at 32 of 100.  Having the mixer at this level means that my volume knob has lots of listenable volume levels, where as if I had it at 15 it would always be too soft and at 45 the difference between too loud and too soft would be one notch.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The gain selection itself only affects volume (note that some people will subjectively find high gain to sound better simply because it is louder). However, the other volume, EQ, and DSP settings can potentially affect the sound quality because if the digital signal level before the master volume control and gain would exceed 0 dBFS, the drivers will apply dynamic compression to avoid clipping. In particular, setting the Left and Right controls in the mixer to a level higher than the default 76, or boosting frequencies in the EQ can result in unwanted dynamic compression.
   
  If you set the sample rate of the card to 96 kHz, and play 44.1 kHz music, it may be resampled by the drivers (depending also on what audio API the player software uses). On the other hand, the card is more noisy at sample rates that are multiples of 44.1 kHz. If you are using foobar2000, you can use the SoX resampler plugin for high quality conversion to 96 kHz; set the volume in foobar2000 to -2 dB to avoid clipping, and set the resolution to 24-bit in both the player and Windows to minimize noise.
   
  As long as there is no clipping, dynamic range compression, or quantization to 16 bits, high gain/low volume and low gain/high volume sound the same, assuming that the resulting output level is exactly the same in both cases.


----------



## sancco

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The gain selection itself only affects volume (note that some people will subjectively find high gain to sound better simply because it is louder). However, the other volume, EQ, and DSP settings can potentially affect the sound quality because if the digital signal level before the master volume control and gain would exceed 0 dBFS, the drivers will apply dynamic compression to avoid clipping. In particular, setting the Left and Right controls in the mixer to a level higher than the default 76, or boosting frequencies in the EQ can result in unwanted dynamic compression.
> 
> If you set the sample rate of the card to 96 kHz, and play 44.1 kHz music, it may be resampled by the drivers (depending also on what audio API the player software uses). On the other hand, the card is more noisy at sample rates that are multiples of 44.1 kHz. If you are using foobar2000, you can use the SoX resampler plugin for high quality conversion to 96 kHz; set the volume in foobar2000 to -2 dB to avoid clipping, and set the resolution to 24-bit in both the player and Windows to minimize noise.
> 
> As long as there is no clipping, dynamic range compression, or quantization to 16 bits, high gain/low volume and low gain/high volume sound the same, assuming that the resulting output level is exactly the same in both cases.


 
   
  Wow man you really know your stuff.  Thanks for this insight!


----------



## No Idea

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Any friends with receivers?
> 
> Long shot.
> Try the 3rd party "Unified Xonar Drivers" from Brainbit.


 
  Unfortunatly no, maybe one or two but they live far away and we're not that close :/
   
  Tried the 3rd party driver and they do sound marginally better but there is still a significant problem. The soundcard was an ex-display model so I picked it up about £30 cheaper than usual and the headphones where second hand from this forum; they didn't however, sound this bad even when plugged into my motherboard's 3.5mm port (using a 120ohm adapter). Don't get me wrong, they weren't great and rather flat but no where near this level!
   
  Thanks for the help so far btw  I really appreciate it.


----------



## Pianist

Hey guys, I just bought an Essence STX yesterday and want to share some impressions. Unfortunately, I am not very impressed so far with the sound of the headphone out on this card. I was hoping that it would be a significant improvement over my HM-601, but it is not. STX headphone out sounds neutral to bright, quite dry and sterile with all my headphones. On the very high gain setting, the sound also becomes noticeably more bright and aggressive - too much so with some music, even using HD555. Detail is great - better than on the HM-601, but the sound is just too clinical and hard to enjoy for me. Even my HD555 which sounds very warm and mid centric out of the HM-601 or Audigy 2 ZS, sounds dry, quite thin and analytical out of STX. I also find the soundstage of the STX pretty mediocre - instrument separation and imaging are solid, but soundstage is narrow and doesn't have much height either, making headphones sound thin. HM601 produces a fuller, bigger sound which is much more to my liking. To be fair, STX does sound quite good with some recordings due to all the resolution and clarity, but most of the time it just isn't fun to listen to as the music lacks the presence I can hear on HM-601, Audigy 2 ZS or even cheaper portables like my Sony NWZ-A816 or Samsung U2. I tried the RCA out to my Fiio E11 and that didn't help either - still the same dry, analytical sound, but even worse, with less resolution and more grain, which is probably because E11 is of lower quality than the STX built in amp. So I am pretty sure the STX will be going back to the store. I don't feel like messing with the opamps. Maybe I should try getting a better external amp to use with the card, but I am not sure if its worth it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





no idea said:


> Unfortunatly no, maybe one or two but they live far away and we're not that close :/
> 
> Tried the 3rd party driver and they do sound marginally better but there is still a significant problem. The sound card was an ex-display model so I picked it up about £30 cheaper than usual and the headphones where second hand from this forum; they didn't however, sound this bad even when plugged into my motherboard's 3.5mm port (using a 120ohm adapter). Don't get me wrong, they weren't great and rather flat but no where near this level!
> 
> Thanks for the help so far btw  I really appreciate it.


 
  Delete any software/drivers for the on-board audio.
  Then turn off computer and remove the Essence STX, then turn computer back on.
  After the computer has fully booted up, turn the computer back off,
  (you have the option of removing the STX's cover shield and making sure all three op-amps are well seated)
  Reinstall the Essence STX (and reconnect the internal power connector and front panel headphone jack) and turn computer back on and test.
  Test the Q701s with both the back panel 1/4 headphone jack and front panel (1/8) headphone jack.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





pianist said:


> Hey guys, I just bought an Essence STX yesterday and want to share some impressions. Unfortunately, I am not very impressed so far with the sound of the headphone out on this card. I was hoping that it would be a significant improvement over my HM-601, but it is not. STX headphone out sounds neutral to bright, quite dry and sterile with all my headphones. On the very high gain setting, the sound also becomes noticeably more bright and aggressive - too much so with some music, even using HD555. Detail is great - better than on the HM-601, but the sound is just too clinical and hard to enjoy for me. Even my HD555 which sounds very warm and mid centric out of the HM-601 or Audigy 2 ZS, sounds dry, quite thin and analytical out of STX. I also find the soundstage of the STX pretty mediocre - instrument separation and imaging are solid, but soundstage is narrow and doesn't have much height either, making headphones sound thin. HM601 produces a fuller, bigger sound which is much more to my liking. To be fair, STX does sound quite good with some recordings due to all the resolution and clarity, but most of the time it just isn't fun to listen to as the music lacks the presence I can hear on HM-601, Audigy 2 ZS or even cheaper portables like my Sony NWZ-A816 or Samsung U2. I tried the RCA out to my Fiio E11 and that didn't help either - still the same dry, analytical sound, but even worse, with less resolution and more grain, which is probably because E11 is of lower quality than the STX built in amp. So I am pretty sure the STX will be going back to the store. I don't feel like messing with the opamps. Maybe I should try getting a better external amp to use with the card, but I am not sure if its worth it.


 
   
   
   
  Well, STX is primarily a DAC, not an headphone amp. Although its marketed as an audiophile card to headphones, to be quite perfectly honest, the amp is holding the rest of the card back, I mean really holding it back. Think of it this way....a DAC with measured performance comparable to 1000$ standalone DAC's connected to an afterthought 50$ head amp. That's the story of STX.  People love it for its sound quality, as a DAC, not as an head amp. While the headamp section has power to run headphones, and will sound better than any other soundcard and virtually any external DAC+amp combo for the price, its amp is far behind the DAC section in terms of sound quality.  I absolutely HATE how it sounds with my Q701 for example, its almost not listenable with most music. But use the stereo out into an external amp, and you'll see it in full glory. Try getting a hold of some external head amp and try it that way before selling it.
   
  But anyway, not to bust your balls, but if you're not impressed with STX, you wont be with anything else as far as DAC's go. You've climbed to the 8500 meter mark on your way to the top of Mt. Everest. Those extra 350 meters to reach the absolute best will cost you a little fortune. I went on, spend 2000$ on DAC's that are suppose to be much better, even won awards for best DAC for 1000$, but hell, they werent any better than STX. I mean, just saying, if you're gonna return the STX, know in advance you're not getting anything nearly as good for the same price, and nothing better unless you wanna spend about 10 times more money.  Better spend 200-300$ on an amp, get something like a Matrix M-stage, and you'll be as happy as a pig in mud.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





pianist said:


> Hey guys, I just bought an Essence STX yesterday and want to share some impressions. Unfortunately, I am not very impressed so far with the sound of the headphone out on this card. I was hoping that it would be a significant improvement over my HM-601, but it is not. STX headphone out sounds neutral to bright, quite dry and sterile with all my headphones. On the very high gain setting, the sound also becomes noticeably more bright and aggressive - too much so with some music, even using HD555. Detail is great - better than on the HM-601, but the sound is just too clinical and hard to enjoy for me. Even my HD555 which sounds very warm and mid centric out of the HM-601 or Audigy 2 ZS, sounds dry, quite thin and analytical out of STX. I also find the soundstage of the STX pretty mediocre - instrument separation and imaging are solid, but soundstage is narrow and doesn't have much height either, making headphones sound thin. HM601 produces a fuller, bigger sound which is much more to my liking. To be fair, STX does sound quite good with some recordings due to all the resolution and clarity, but most of the time it just isn't fun to listen to as the music lacks the presence I can hear on HM-601, Audigy 2 ZS or even cheaper portables like my Sony NWZ-A816 or Samsung U2. I tried the RCA out to my Fiio E11 and that didn't help either - still the same dry, analytical sound, but even worse, with less resolution and more grain, which is probably because E11 is of lower quality than the STX built in amp. So I am pretty sure the STX will be going back to the store. I don't feel like messing with the opamps. Maybe I should try getting a better external amp to use with the card, but I am not sure if its worth it.


 
  For $50 up can replace the three stock op-amps on the STX (AD797BR).


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> For $50 up can replace the three stock op-amps on the STX (AD797BR).


 

 Or Two pairs LME49990 on a dual  to single op-amp adapter, Also only the Two I/V op-amp sockets are used when the headphone output is used.


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


no idea said:


> Hello, having a little problem with my STX and I was wondering of anyone could help me out
> 
> I was told on a number of occasions that the Xonar STX would be more than enough to drive a pair of Q701's despite people buying E9's and what not. However I'm struggling to get them to any decent volume even at full volume! Not that I ever have them at full because there is this popping sound that occurs when ever i go over 30% volume...
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's really weird. I happen to own an older AKG model that's supposed to be even harder to drive (K400 EP) and don't have any problems with volume at all. I usually listen at around 20-40 at high gain depending on the recording, sometimes even lower. You definitely shouldn't bet hearing any popping either. You made sure that your power supply is connected properly right? And are you using it with windows 8?


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Well, STX is primarily a DAC, not an headphone amp. Although its marketed as an audiophile card to headphones, to be quite perfectly honest, the amp is holding the rest of the card back, I mean really holding it back. Think of it this way....a DAC with measured performance comparable to 1000$ standalone DAC's connected to an afterthought 50$ head amp. That's the story of STX.  People love it for its sound quality, as a DAC, not as an head amp. While the headamp section has power to run headphones, and will sound better than any other soundcard and virtually any external DAC+amp combo for the price, its amp is far behind the DAC section in terms of sound quality.  I absolutely HATE how it sounds with my Q701 for example, its almost not listenable with most music. But use the stereo out into an external amp, and you'll see it in full glory. Try getting a hold of some external head amp and try it that way before selling it.
> 
> But anyway, not to bust your balls, but if you're not impressed with STX, you wont be with anything else as far as DAC's go. You've climbed to the 8500 meter mark on your way to the top of Mt. Everest. Those extra 350 meters to reach the absolute best will cost you a little fortune. I went on, spend 2000$ on DAC's that are suppose to be much better, even won awards for best DAC for 1000$, but hell, they werent any better than STX. I mean, just saying, if you're gonna return the STX, know in advance you're not getting anything nearly as good for the same price, and nothing better unless you wanna spend about 10 times more money.  Better spend 200-300$ on an amp, get something like a Matrix M-stage, and you'll be as happy as a pig in mud.


 
  So if I were to say get this and run analog RCA to a Schiit Magni, would I have a decent >$300 set-up?


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Well, STX is primarily a DAC, not an headphone amp. Although its marketed as an audiophile card to headphones, to be quite perfectly honest, the amp is holding the rest of the card back, I mean really holding it back. Think of it this way....a DAC with measured performance comparable to 1000$ standalone DAC's connected to an afterthought 50$ head amp. That's the story of STX.  People love it for its sound quality, as a DAC, not as an head amp. While the headamp section has power to run headphones, and will sound better than any other soundcard and virtually any external DAC+amp combo for the price, its amp is far behind the DAC section in terms of sound quality.  I absolutely HATE how it sounds with my Q701 for example, its almost not listenable with most music. But use the stereo out into an external amp, and you'll see it in full glory. Try getting a hold of some external head amp and try it that way before selling it.


 
  What's so bad about the amp?
   
  SNR so high that it's overkill, THD well beyond overkill as well, flat frequency response... Can't really get better than that IMO unless you just want more power. Or distortion.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Nothing really, I guess some expect it to compete with high end/high dollar external headamps.  They forget the price and performance available for the overall package.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





chewy4 said:


> What's so bad about the amp?


 
   
  It is not _bad_, in fact it is quite good with high impedance headphones, but not so much when using low impedance and/or very sensitive ones:
  - the 117 dB SNR is meant for full scale (7 Vrms) output, and 48/96/192 kHz sample rate. Since the card has fully digital gain and volume control (= constant absolute noise floor), and the DAC becomes noisier at 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz sample rates, it can actually have audible hiss listening CD audio with the most sensitive headphones or IEMs
  - there is a slightly higher than 10 Ω output impedance; that can audibly affect some low impedance headphones, and especially balanced armature IEMs
  - the 0.001% distortion is measured with a high impedance load. When loaded with a few tens of Ω instead (see here, for example), the distortion is not quite as good. Of course, some distortion will also result from the output impedance. Overall, it is still acceptable, though
  - there is a relatively high 28-29 mV DC offset
  None of the above really explains the claim by *derbigpr* that the amplifier performs poorly with 300+ Ω Sennheiser headphones, though.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It is not _bad_, in fact it is quite good with high impedance headphones, but not so much when using low impedance and/or very sensitive ones:
> - the 117 dB SNR is meant for full scale (7 Vrms) output, and 48/96/192 kHz sample rate. Since the card has fully digital gain and volume control (= constant absolute noise floor), and the DAC becomes noisier at 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz sample rates, it can actually have audible hiss listening CD audio with the most sensitive headphones or IEMs
> - there is a slightly higher than 10 Ω output impedance; that can audibly affect some low impedance headphones, and especially balanced armature IEMs
> - the 0.001% distortion is measured with a high impedance load. When loaded with a few tens of Ω instead, the distortion is not quite as good, although still not poor
> ...


 
  True that it is not the best match for low impedance headphones.
   
  I did not know that about the SNR and distortion measurements though, thanks for the info. Noise floor has never been a problem with me due to using not very sensitive planars.
   
  But I'm unfamiliar with DC offset... If I'm understanding it correctly is this not really a problem with normal listening, but more-so with mixing or if you don't have enough power headroom?


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> But I'm unfamiliar with DC offset... If I'm understanding it correctly is this not really a problem with normal listening, but more-so with mixing or if you don't have enough power headroom?


 
   
  I do not think it makes much difference, but I included it for completeness. Maybe for some very sensitive headphones that cannot handle much power. By the way, the FiiO E10 has similar or slightly higher DC offset on high gain.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It is not _bad_, in fact it is quite good with high impedance headphones, but not so much when using low impedance and/or very sensitive ones:
> - the 117 dB SNR is meant for full scale (7 Vrms) output, and 48/96/192 kHz sample rate. Since the card has fully digital gain and volume control (= constant absolute noise floor), and the DAC becomes noisier at 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz sample rates, it can actually have audible hiss listening CD audio with the most sensitive headphones or IEMs
> - there is a slightly higher than 10 Ω output impedance; that can audibly affect some low impedance headphones, and especially balanced armature IEMs
> - the 0.001% distortion is measured with a high impedance load. When loaded with a few tens of Ω instead (see here, for example), the distortion is not quite as good. Of course, some distortion will also result from the output impedance. Overall, it is still acceptable, though
> ...


 
  My measurements on my modded STX were half of the D.C. offset you quote out the headphone jack (about 10mVin one channel & 15mV in the other). Other people have measured the same on thiers. Note that nothing was changed from stock as far as the headphone output was concerned, only the line out was changed on mine (Caps remove from output). Other mods were strictly powersupply.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> I do not think it makes much difference, but I included it for completeness. Maybe for some very sensitive headphones that cannot handle much power. By the way, the FiiO E10 has similar or slightly higher DC offset on high gain.


 
  At the levels experienced with these cards the D.C. offset is fine for direct driving headphones but not for driving a moderately high gain D.C. coupled amp as they will amplify the D.C. by whatever the gain factor of the amp is. A gain of 20db will boost D.C. offset  voltage by 10X on such amps. Note that all amps in my system are D.C. coupled so care must be taken in my case. Most amps however are not D.C. coupled. Even a relative small D.C. offset at the input of some D.C. coupled amp can cause over heating of the amp & if gain is high enough damage the speakers.
   
  I D.C. coupled all my amps in order to virtually eliminate all amp coloration & believe me it does the trick. I drive my amps from the direct coupled Line-out of the card which has much lower D.C. offset & by direct copling the output I can also reduce most any D.C. offset coming out the input of some amps as well which cannot be done with the stock caps in place. Yes some amps can have substantial D.C. offset coming out the input jack. My old Adcom GFA 545 had 35mV coming out its input with nothing connected & the midwoofer power amp in my M-Adio BX5,s have over one volt coming out it's input when not connected to its EQ board. The EQ board is D.C.coupled & sinks this voltateg so the excess D.C. offset does not make to the driver. With 1 volt at the input without the EQ board connected the output from the midwoofer amp (not connected to speaker as that would blow the speaker in short order) is almost 25 volts out but with the EQ board connected the D.C. offset sinks to less than 30mV which is plenty safe.
   
  I no longer have this card but I remember it very very fondly. I am now using the X-Fi titanium HD card which uses similar hardware for the line-out. Same type mods applied here with similar results though not perfectly the same it is very close in performance.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





germanium said:


> My measurements on my modded STX were half of the D.C. offset you quote out the headphone jack (about 10mVin one channel & 15mV in the other). Other people have measured the same on thiers. Note that nothing was changed from stock as far as the headphone output was concerned, only the line out was changed on mine (Caps remove from output). Other mods were strictly powersupply.


 
   
  The DC offset is probably subject to some random variation, especially since the path to the headphone output is fully DC coupled, so the DC offset from the stages before the TPA6120A2 is also amplified. Even in your measurement one channel has 1.5 times higher DC offset than the other.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Nothing really, I guess some expect it to compete with high end/high dollar external headamps.  They forget the price and performance available for the overall package.


 
   
  And some keep reading posts without actually paying attention to what they say.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> None of the above really explains the claim by *derbigpr* that the amplifier performs poorly with 300+ Ω Sennheiser headphones, though.


 
   
  Sorry, but I never ever said it performs poorly with 300+ ohm headphones, don't put words in mouth please, I even used it with such headphones. It just doesn't perform (with none of the headphones) as good as a decent external amp, or with something like a integrated speaker amp headphone output. And yes, a headphone output on my speaker amp is superior in every regard, regardless of specs. It sounds bigger, punchier, more detailed, more airy, more musical, everything sounds more separated, etc. Thats the biggest problem with STX amp, everything sounds congested, soundstage is small and the music just doesn't sound coherent as it does on regular amps.  STX headphone out is good, for the price, but not nearly as good in practice as the specs say or as good as the DAC section. That's clear when you compare it to a cheap separate head amp with inferior specs, but it actually sound better.


----------



## chewy4

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Sorry, but I never ever said it performs poorly with 300+ ohm headphones, don't put words in mouth please, I even used it with such headphones. It just doesn't perform (with none of the headphones) as good as a decent external amp, or with something like a integrated speaker amp headphone output. And yes, a headphone output on my speaker amp is superior in every regard, regardless of specs. It sounds bigger, punchier, more detailed, more airy, more musical, everything sounds more separated, etc. Thats the biggest problem with STX amp, everything sounds congested, soundstage is small and the music just doesn't sound coherent as it does on regular amps.  STX headphone out is good, for the price, but not nearly as good in practice as the specs say or as good as the DAC section. *That's clear when you compare it to a cheap separate head amp with inferior specs, but it actually sound better.*


 
  Must be because they don't make the STX with as much love. That's the secret ingredient to a good amp, and no specs can measure that.


----------



## connieflyer

I have used the Essence STX with Sennheiser hd 380 pro's  and now have the Sennheiser HD 650's and am having a ball.  This card drives these headphones with no problem at all.  The external amp I am using is an Harmon-Kardon AVR 510 into Electro-Voice Sentry 5's and the sound is as good as my main system with an Harmon-Kardon AVR 2100 and PSB speakers.  I don't know why the problems with the sound you are having but perhaps it is your computer is not up to snuff.  Poor power supply regulation, type of music player, I am using JRiver now and it is far superior in every way to Media player.  Just my one cent worth ( devalued because of the poor economy)


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The DC offset is probably subject to some random variation, especially since the path to the headphone output is fully DC coupled, so the DC offset from the stages before the TPA6120A2 is also amplified. Even in your measurement one channel has 1.5 times higher DC offset than the other.


 
  While there is some variation most people who have measured it come up with the same figures as I have right down to the same level of mismatch between the 2 channels.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





germanium said:


> While there is some variation most people who have measured it come up with the same figures as I have right down to the same level of mismatch between the 2 channels.


 
   
  Well, I just measured it again, and it is indeed +28 mV on the left channel, and +30 mV on the right (with no load, obviously with a low impedance load the voltage drops somewhat). The "most people who measured it" is probably not a large sample.
   
Oddly, however, the output impedance seems to be about 15 Ω on both channels 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will measure everything again with different methods to make sure it is not an error, but maybe there are manufacturing differences or revisions between the cards ? Edit: forget it, it was apparently a cable problem. But that does not have anything to do with the DC offset, which is still consistently 28-30 mV for me with no load.
Edit 2: I tested again using a loopback based method and 22 Ω resistor load. The DC offset is about the same (+/- 1 mV) as with the DMM, and the output impedance is now, without the faulty cable, 10.3 Ω at 1 kHz on both channels.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Sorry, but I never ever said it performs poorly with 300+ ohm headphones, don't put words in mouth please, I even used it with such headphones. It just doesn't perform (with none of the headphones) as good as a decent external amp, or with something like a integrated speaker amp headphone output. And yes, a headphone output on my speaker amp is superior in every regard, regardless of specs. It sounds bigger, punchier, more detailed, more airy, more musical, everything sounds more separated, etc. Thats the biggest problem with STX amp, everything sounds congested, soundstage is small and the music just doesn't sound coherent as it does on regular amps.  STX headphone out is good, for the price, but not nearly as good in practice as the specs say or as good as the DAC section. That's clear when you compare it to a cheap separate head amp with inferior specs, but it actually sound better.


 
   
  To summarize it in short, you think it performs poorly, it is just a matter of how the words are chosen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not that I think that non-level matched sighted amplifier comparisons are worth much, though. According to specs and measurements, it should be difficult to tell the card apart from an objectively "perfect" amplifier in a proper blind test (something that very rarely happens) with high impedance headphones. Clearly audible flaws are not acceptable; that is, assuming that they actually exist.


----------



## Houbi

Has anyone ever tried to power the Essence STX with the mobile dual-battery Molex PowerSupply called MolexT?

http://team-xecuter.com/molext-molex-on-the-move/


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





houbi said:


> Has anyone ever tried to power the Essence STX with the mobile dual-battery Molex PowerSupply called MolexT?


 
   
  It should not be useful if you do not have a poor quality PSU that does not meet the ATX specifications.


----------



## Theodore

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It should not be useful if you do not have a poor quality PSU that does not meet the ATX specifications.


 

 What wattage should this be?
  And by the way,can you suggest some good quality PSU?
  Wish you a happy new year.
  Theodore.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





theodore said:


> What wattage should this be?


 
   
  That depends mostly on what other components (particularly the CPU and GPU) you have in your PC. The Xonar itself adds less than 20 W consumption.
   
  Quote: 





theodore said:


> And by the way,can you suggest some good quality PSU?


 
   
  You can find detailed PSU reviews and measurements if you search. You will probably want a model with reasonably low ripple and accurate voltages under any load, in addition to being (obviously) reliable, well built, quiet (after all, acoustic noise from PC components is just as bad for music listening as noise in the audio signal), efficient, etc. But the sound card does have onboard power supply filtering and regulation, so it does not need a "perfect" PSU, only a decent one that clearly meets the ATX specs under any conditions.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theodore said:


> What wattage should this be?
> And by the way,can you suggest some good quality PSU?
> Wish you a happy new year.
> Theodore.


 
  I try to read the product feedback on the Newegg site before buying any computer parts, from any place.


----------



## Theodore

Thank you very much guys.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theodore said:


> Thank you very much guys.


 
  This looks like a good deal for a 650 watt.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-TechBargains&cm_mmc=AFC-TechBargains-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16817139005


----------



## Psyside

Ok guys few questions.
   
  1. I'm using ASIO over AIMP3 for music playback, (24 bit) but how about when converting audio with AVS audio converter is ASIO active during that process and what benefits if offer, how does it work when i'm not using AIMP3?
   
  2. Does bit/sample rate change on its own? (auto) i'm using  Xonar UNI 1.63 beta.
   
  3. Any benefit to lower the latency in ASIO panel lower then 10ms? also maybe use 32 bit instead of 24 bit? pros/cons of this settings?
   
  4. Is this proper way of setup in windows, 

   
  5. Anything else i should change or tweak? thanks!


----------



## Psyside

Anyone?


----------



## irishpatrick33

I know I will be reprimanded for this, but... can somebody give me a synopsis on rolling the op amps on the Xonar Essence cards?
   
  The thread is way too long, unorganized, and possibly outdated.
   
  I will never use headphones, so I am only interested in rolling the buffer op amp.
   
  What are people's thoughts and recommendations? I assume any op amp that I sub in here needs to be a dual circuit?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Actually for the line outputs, you change all three opamps if you wish (buffer and 2 X I/V).  Headphones, you only change the I/V as the circuit replaces the buffer with the headphones amplifier chip.


----------



## irishpatrick33

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Actually for the line outputs, you change all three opamps if you wish (buffer and 2 X I/V).  Headphones, you only change the I/V as the circuit replaces the buffer with the headphones amplifier chip.


 
   
   


> *Q: What's the deal with interchangeable opamps?*
> A: The card has 3 swappable 8-pin dual opamps. The two matched I/V opamps impact the headphone out alone, while the 3rd "buffer" opamp impacts the RCA out. If you are only using the headphone out you only have to worry about the 2 I/V opamps. They can be removed and replaced using your fingers, a small flathead screwdriver, needle nose pliers, etc.


 
   
  This is why I said what I said.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





irishpatrick33 said:


> This is why I said what I said.


 

 Yeah that is worded strangely.  If you use lineouts, all 3 can be changed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





irishpatrick33 said:


> I know I will be reprimanded for this, but... can somebody give me a synopsis on rolling the op amps on the Xonar Essence cards?
> 
> The thread is way too long, unorganized, and possibly outdated.
> 
> ...


 
  For the line-out (to the speakers), you would want to replace all three op-amps.
  I use the AD797BR op-amps myself.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261100530695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccacdec07


----------



## Strangelove424

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> This looks like a good deal for a 650 watt.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-TechBargains&cm_mmc=AFC-TechBargains-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16817139005


 
  I used to have one of these Corsair TX models, but the 750w version. It's a really good quality PSU, and I passed it on to someone else for their build. But in the process I upgraded to AX series, 750w again, and couldn't be happier. They're about $150 at NewEgg. The major difference between TX and AX, aside from effeciency, is fan noise. TX fans are always spinning while AX fans are at 0rpm up to 50% load (well within the range of power required to run the STX). This effectively makes the PSU silent during music listening, minus the slight coil hum. It's a great piece of hardware for an audiophile computer setup.


----------



## cel4145

purpleangel said:


> For the line-out (to the speakers), you would want to replace all three op-amps.
> I use the AD797BR op-amps myself.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261100530695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccacdec07




Would these be good to use if running the line out to a headphone amp and speakers? (I have a Niles switcher connected to the line out.) I don't know anything about electronic circuit design, but I thought it would worthwhile to switch out the opamps if I can find a set that offer a general improvement over the default. That way I can see what the difference is everyone is talking about. Plus, it would be nice to get a slight SQ improvement


----------



## Sylverant

Quote:


strangelove424 said:


> I used to have one of these Corsair TX models, but the 750w version. It's a really good quality PSU, and I passed it on to someone else for their build. But in the process I upgraded to AX series, 750w again, and couldn't be happier. They're about $150 at NewEgg. The major difference between TX and AX, aside from effeciency, is fan noise. TX fans are always spinning while AX fans are at 0rpm up to 50% load (well within the range of power required to run the STX). This effectively makes the PSU silent during music listening, minus the slight coil hum. It's a great piece of hardware for an audiophile computer setup.


 
   
  I just recently bought the HX750 a week ago...It didn't even occur to me that the top of the line AX was only $20 dollars more. I haven't opened the packaging or installed it yet though; what features would I get if I exchanged it for the AX750?

 (I know I probably shouldn't worry about it, but it makes me wonder now that you mentioned it)


----------



## Strangelove424

Quote: 





sylverant said:


> Quote:
> 
> I just recently bought the HX750 a week ago...It didn't even occur to me that the top of the line AX was only $20 dollars more. I haven't opened the packaging or installed it yet though; what features would I get if I exchanged it for the AX750?
> 
> (I know I probably shouldn't worry about it, but it makes me wonder now that you mentioned it)


 
http://www.corsair.com/en/blog/hx-gold According to this, HX750 has been updated and is actually very close to AX now, both rated 80 plus gold.  It also has a fanless mode  and changes rpm w/ temp. I was a bit off with the AX numbers, the fans turn on at 150w, or 20% load (but that's still well above the power required for playing music) and as you can see in the graphs, the HX750's fan has the same slope. The only difference between them is that the AX has fully modular cabling while the HX is semi-modular - fully modular can come in handy in the case of a PSU replacement since nothing needs to be re-routed. For the most part though, the HX looks to be just as quiet/effecient as the AX and there is no appreciable difference in performance. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Sylverant

@Strangelove424,
   
  Alright, that's good to know. I'll stick with what I have then, thanks!


----------



## Psyside

Hi guys! i'm looking for the best opamps for STX
   
  I want them to increase,
   
*Clarity, details, soundstage, (3D) depth, dynamics,* and a bit low end or can be same like with the default ones.
   
  What is the best pick?


----------



## DamageInc77

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Hi guys! i'm looking for the best opamps for STX
> 
> I want them to increase,
> 
> ...


 
  I am currently using some 49990's from frugalphile. They are very clear and have excellent detail. The soundstage isn't huge, but it's big enough for my taste.


----------



## Pianist

Do any of you guys run your headphones directly from the line out of the ST/X? I tried running my cans through the RCA to 3.5 mm adapter and I think it sounds pretty damn good, but the output does lack power that way and likely can't drive cans like HD650 or HE500 to anywhere near their full potential. Still, I prefer the sound straight from the line out to line out + Fiio E11. I find that E11 masks some of the line out's clarity and resolution. The ST/X headphone out is much more powerful and more dynamic than straight line out, but can't quite match the line out in clarity, definition and detail. The headphone out is also noticeably brighter than the line out and the highs can get on my nerves sometimes. I am using the stock op amps though.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





pianist said:


> Do any of you guys run your headphones directly from the line out of the ST/X? I tried running my cans through the RCA to 3.5 mm adapter and I think it sounds pretty damn good, but the output does lack power that way and likely can't drive cans like HD650 or HE500 to anywhere near their full potential. Still, I prefer the sound straight from the line out to line out + Fiio E11. I find that E11 masks some of the line out's clarity and resolution. The ST/X headphone out is much more powerful and more dynamic than straight line out, but can't quite match the line out in clarity, definition and detail. The headphone out is also noticeably brighter than the line out and the highs can get on my nerves sometimes. I am using the stock op amps though.


 

 Thanks for a suggestion to take under advisement - AKG®, beyerdynamic® and Sennheiser® all have 600Ω models, and the single and dual op amps that I am considering for upgrading my own Asus® CM1630-06's internal XONAR® are, with the exception of the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172IN, all rated for 600Ω loads.


----------



## Psyside

Quote: 





damageinc77 said:


> I am currently using some 49990's from frugalphile. They are very clear and have excellent detail. The soundstage isn't huge, but it's big enough for my taste.


 
  Thanks, are they big improvement over stock? and what segment they are lacking?


----------



## Redshift Rider

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Thanks, are they big improvement over stock? and what segment they are lacking?


 
  I'm using headphone out because i don't have proper desktop amp at the moment (i only change opamps in IV position)
  First i went from stock to LME49720 and there was noticeable improvement in terms of clarity, details and soundstage. There was a loss in bass quantity but increase in quality.
   
  Then went from 49720 to 49990 (bought them from frugalphile) and improvement was even bigger. Not only there was even more details, but the sound was smoother (less fatigue).
  This time bass also gained some quantity back. Imaging and sound separation in particular were exceptional.
   
  Then went from LME49990 to AD797BR (bought them from audjade_chn) two weeks ago.
  My Q701 went completely berserk. One would call this an out-of-head experience. I don't know what to say really, its that kind of sound that shuts you up and you just want to listen to music


----------



## HiroPro

Quote: 





redshift rider said:


> I'm using headphone out because i don't have proper desktop amp at the moment (i only change opamps in IV position)
> First i went from stock to LME49720 and there was noticeable improvement in terms of clarity, details and soundstage. There was a loss in bass quantity but increase in quality.
> 
> Then went from 49720 to 49990 (bought them from frugalphile) and improvement was even bigger. Not only there was even more details, but the sound was smoother (less fatigue).
> ...


 

 So you use the AD797BR  only in the I/V? What is a good opamp to use with AD797BR for the buffer? I generally don't trust sources from China as they use knockoff/fake opamps. How can that guy sell two AD797BRs on an adapter for $11 bucks !?!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiropro said:


> So you use the AD797BR in the I/V and buffer? I generally don't trust sources from China as they use knockoff/fake opamps. How can that guy sell two AD797BRs on an adapter for $11 bucks !?!


 
  They are used op-amps, somewhere in China some 15 year old is getting 25 cents an hour to remove IC chips from used PCB boards.
  I've had good luck from the seller Audio_Jade, on eBay.
  That's were I got my pre-soldered AD797BRs from.


----------



## connieflyer

How do you feel about your use of the AD797BR?  Reshift Rider says his headphones went beserk, I think that is probably good, but perhaps a little more description would be nice.  I am using Sennhieser 650's and love the sound of the stock ops, but am always looking for better.  Thanks, Don


----------



## cdd3068

Quote: 





psyside said:


> Hi guys! i'm looking for the best opamps for STX
> 
> I want them to increase,
> 
> ...


 
   
  IMO... a pair of LME49720NA did it for me.


----------



## Redshift Rider

Quote: 





connieflyer said:


> How do you feel about your use of the AD797BR?  Reshift Rider says his headphones went beserk, I think that is probably good, but perhaps a little more description would be nice.  I am using Sennhieser 650's and love the sound of the stock ops, but am always looking for better.  Thanks, Don


 
  Yeah, i should clarify a bit. Berserk is good  I meant it as an overall improvement.
  With AD797BR sound gained so much energy yet they improve a bit on the non-fatigue aspect of 49990. I find that amazing. If i was to say 49990 are detailed, neutral and clear then by comparison AD797BR are clinical (as someone in this or the opamp thread already put it perfectly). Soundstage is noticeably wider and deeper on AD797BRs and the sound is more "alive", like instruments were missing a dimension.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





connieflyer said:


> How do you feel about your use of the AD797BR?  Reshift Rider says his headphones went beserk, I think that is probably good, but perhaps a little more description would be nice.  I am using Sennhieser 650's and love the sound of the stock ops, but am always looking for better.  Thanks, Don


 

 After reading the Adobe® Portable Document Format™ datasheet from Analog.com, dual AD797BR's on an adapter consistent with that required for dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA's on any one of three dual-op-amp sockets on the XONAR® Essence™ ST and STX are a potential option; but the AD797BR goes one better by provisioning for compensating circuitry similar to that used with the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM318AJ in broadband applications.  Any adapters available for dual 8-pin SOIC's to 8-pin DIP with integral provisions for surface-mount resistors and capacitors for that purpose?


----------



## audioAl

Most you guys are into gaming, I am into music. I can't believe the STX still sells for $150.00 plus! I enjoy my headphones in my mustang now.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





cdd3068 said:


> psyside said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys! i'm looking for the best opamps for STX
> ...


 
  Oh hell no - try something better, they are crap IME 
   
  AD797 is a good choice but its not exactly smooth, treble can be a bit much with AKG's which are analytical. But for al ofthat and smoothness - THS4032 without a doubt.


----------



## HyperionXL

Quote: 





redshift rider said:


> I'm using headphone out because i don't have proper desktop amp at the moment (i only change opamps in IV position)
> First i went from stock to LME49720 and there was noticeable improvement in terms of clarity, details and soundstage. There was a loss in bass quantity but increase in quality.
> 
> Then went from 49720 to 49990 (bought them from frugalphile) and improvement was even bigger. Not only there was even more details, but the sound was smoother (less fatigue).
> ...


 
   
  Take my money, sir!

 You just sold me on these amps. Never messed around with my soundcard before, or amps for that matter, so we'll see how bad I fumble it up when I get my AD797BRs in a week or so. Looking forward to hearing how my Qs like them.


----------



## Strangelove424

I know there's some skilled people on this site, even programmers. Has anyone managed to hack or tweak the STX drivers to allow the volume knob to be adjusted via scroll wheel instead of clicking it and dragging it clockwise/counterclockwise? Is this even possible? I have been hoping that Asus would add this capability in an update.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





strangelove424 said:


> I know there's some skilled people on this site, even programmers. Has anyone managed to hack or tweak the STX drivers to allow the volume knob to be adjusted via scroll wheel instead of clicking it and dragging it clockwise/counterclockwise? Is this even possible? I have been hoping that Asus would add this capability in an update.


 
  How about download a hotkey application of sorts, make:
  mouse wheel up = vol up
  mouse wheel down = vol down


----------



## ev13wt

Got the ST, install went nice, drivers are the latest from asus. Set to hifi mode and lowest gain setting.
   
  Initial listening test is what I expected. Better than onboard, nice headphone control.
   
  Had a glitch: During playing a 44.1 192 classical music during a very quiet passage file I wrongly read the sampling rate as 192 and switched the cards output to that. Noticed my mistake and switched back to 44.1. I got pure digital noise at MAX volume. Not music, or distorted music but pure noise. I seriously was totally shocked and threw my headphones off and ripped out the cable (In the office with Senn PX-100 II). That REALLY hurt my ears. It was max 1.5 seconds before reaction to throw them off. Can't hear high frequencies all that good right now. Still in total shock. Glad I am not at home with a different can or even worse, my stereo setup. Holy cow. Probably would have instantly blown the tweeters. I'm pretty scared to set it up now at home...
   
  Seems the headphones are ok. Tentatively listening at really low volume right now. Still hurts to listen to music. Shock is slowly wearing off.
   
  Anyone ever had this experience? Tried search but couldn't find anything vie headfi or google.
   

   
  Ouch.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ev13wt said:


> Got the ST, install went nice, drivers are the latest from asus. Set to hifi mode and lowest gain setting.
> 
> Initial listening test is what I expected. Better than onboard, nice headphone control.
> 
> ...


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki


----------



## ev13wt

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki


 
   
  Thanks! I will follow these instructions and report back.


----------



## ev13wt

Report: Works. Installed new drivers over existing drivers - ok like this? Seems to me sound is a bit more mid/low range now? I *THINK* I am hearing some bass distortion now. :/ Using WASAPI in Foo at 48, Win output dev at 48 24b, ASUS control at 48. <-- Probably just me?
   
  Bug: Recieving windows sounds or skype sounds gives an audible "pop" during music playback. Is this normal? Sorry - I am a "noob" at pc soundcards.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ev13wt said:


> Report: Works. Installed new drivers over existing drivers - ok like this? Seems to me sound is a bit more mid/low range now? Using WASAPI in Foo at 48, Win output dev at 48 24b, ASUS control at 48. <-- Probably just me?
> 
> Bug: Recieving windows sounds or skype sounds gives an audible "pop" during music playback. Is this normal? Sorry - I am a "noob" at pc soundcards.


 
  sometimes happens, I switched to ASIO and that stopped it, seems to be luck of the draw, bu its better if you uninstall both, download "Driver Sweeper",restart, clean your pc, restart, again, and then install uni drivers


----------



## ev13wt

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> sometimes happens, I switched to ASIO and that stopped it, seems to be luck of the draw, bu its better if you uninstall both, download "Driver Sweeper",restart, clean your pc, restart, again, and then install uni drivers


 
   
  Ok, since I will be taking it home and installing it there, I have a clean install on the way. Thank you for your help dude!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ev13wt said:


> Ok, since I will be taking it home and installing it there, I have a clean install on the way. Thank you for your help dude!


 
  no prob! and remember SOX and setting the resampler in Foobar


----------



## taiyoyuden

Do the new drivers support 88.2/176.4kHz yet? I only see bug fixes for games in the changelog.
   
  I'm on the old 7.12.8.1777 drivers, using Foobar2000 WASAPI RCA out. Also is it best to match the sampling rate in windows and essence audio center? or can I just put them both at 24/192? I know for bit-depth it'll just add 0's and make no difference but what about sampling rate?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





taiyoyuden said:


> Do the new drivers support 88.2/176.4kHz yet? I only see bug fixes for games in the changelog.
> 
> I'm on the old 7.12.8.1777 drivers, using Foobar2000 WASAPI RCA out. Also is it best to match the sampling rate in windows and essence audio center? or can I just put them both at 24/192? I know for bit-depth it'll just add 0's and make no difference but what about sampling rate?


 
  I leave mine at 24-bit/96Khz, can't really see any reason for going to 192Khz.
  I would make a wild guess that the lower the Khz setting, makes the DAC's job easier to do.


----------



## Strangelove424

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> How about download a hotkey application of sorts, make:
> mouse wheel up = vol up
> mouse wheel down = vol down


 
  I totally forgot I have button mapping through my mouse software. I couldn't remap the scroll wheel up/down but I could remap it left/right for volume. That works for me, just got tired of trying to see the the dot on the volume knob from across the room and fumbling around. Thanks dude.


----------



## xD4rkFire

How is the STX compared to the Titanium HD for positional audio in modern FPS games? (BF3 and CS:GO)


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

"I enjoy my headphones in my mustang now."
   
   
That sounds dangerous


----------



## ev13wt

blackenedplague said:


> "I enjoy my headphones in my mustang now."
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds dangerous




I didn't even understand his entire post at all, probably just spam?





xd4rkfire said:


> How is the STX compared to the Titanium HD for positional audio in modern FPS games? (BF3 and CS:GO)




I play in stereo, I can't stand the sound of those surround modes. Card works awesome for that.

 That said, the forums all say the creative card is better for those games in surround mode. Due to the fact that creative cards are "the big player" in gaming and most games are programmed for that chip.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Most games are programmed for that chip?
  Perhaps many years ago...
   
  If you are talking about a game that provides it's own audio engine and uses no hardware based effects, the best sounding card provides the best sound quality. 
   
  If you are talking about an older game that is using EAX/OpenAL based effects, the card with the hardware DSP will win out.
   
  There are not very many newer games if any at all that still use hardware based effects.
   
  Both cards should be pretty much similar for direction audio if the game is providing the directional cues.


----------



## xD4rkFire

Ya, it's going to be for Battlefield 3 and CS:GO.


----------



## ROBSCIX

To clarify a bit, unless the game in question requires specific hardware offered by the CL card which they do not, directional audio will be the same for either card because the game produces the in game effects not the card.  So choose whatever card offers you the features,sound quality and/or price point you want.


----------



## WiR3D

xd4rkfire said:


> Ya, it's going to be for Battlefield 3 and CS:GO.
> /quote] personal experience, ST + AKG K242HD + BF3 = ridiculous awesum.


----------



## eggyhustles

Bassheads
   
  Which op amps worked best for u?
   
  I find the bass to be nice and tight, but not as deep as i'd like. 
   
  Using jvc harx700's


----------



## WiR3D

Get better headphones


----------



## eggyhustles

It's not the headphones
   
  Before the stx, i had an old creative card in here and the bass was a lot deeper..tho not as detailed.


----------



## BLACKENEDPLAGUE

then get used to it.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote:


eggyhustles said:


> It's not the headphones
> 
> Before the stx, i had an old creative card in here and the bass was a lot deeper..tho not as detailed.


 
   
  Quote: 





blackenedplague said:


> then get used to it.


 
  well phrased.
   
  The stock ST/STX with the stock JRC2114D opamps has emphasized bass already. 
   
  The only other issue I can think of is that because the JVC is relatively low impedance its not getting enough current, since the ST/STX is made for higher impedance headphones.
   
  This is the case with my Denons, however it does not lack quantity, just quality. In the Denons case anyway.
   
  So again. 
   


wir3d said:


> Get better headphones


----------



## Yviena

Hi can anyone recommend me some op amps that work good with the dt770 pro 80 ? the stock JRC 2114 sounds a bit too bassy with the beyers


----------



## matbhuvi

A stupid audiophile question. Anyone using external DAC with STX and finding bigger benefits? I find the DAC in STX to be adequate. But, 5 years back i found my first bose speakers are my route to audio nirvana


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





yviena said:


> Hi can anyone recommend me some op amps that work good with the dt770 pro 80 ? the stock JRC 2114 sounds a bit too bassy with the beyers


 
  THS4032 - smooth trebble, neutral sound, great imaging. @Ebay
  Quote: 





matbhuvi said:


> A stupid audiophile question. Anyone using external DAC with STX and finding bigger benefits? I find the DAC in STX to be adequate. But, 5 years back i found my first bose speakers are my route to audio nirvana


 
  There is still room for improvement, but I think the next step up is easily over $550, just for the DAC. The problem with the STX is its coloured. Its not transparent. But this can be an advantage depending how you look at things.
   
  I would first invest in a good preamp/amp then go to changing the DAC.
   
  EDIT:
  looking at it, you have the Yamamoto Soundcraft. I'd say thats pretty damn good. So yes the STX will be holding you back, but your headphones even more.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





matbhuvi said:


> A stupid audiophile question. Anyone using external DAC with STX and finding bigger benefits? I find the DAC in STX to be adequate. But, 5 years back i found my first bose speakers are my route to audio nirvana


 
   
  In my experience, nope, haven't found a DAC that I found really superior.  I have the Musical Fidelity M1DAC that I use for a speaker setup, which is about 1000$ (or was when it was new a couple of years ago), in all major reviews everyone pretty much raved about it and called it the gaint killer, or something that can pretty much perform as good as any DAC regardless of price, blah blah...but to be honest, I don't hear any difference when using it between the STX and headphone amps as opposed to connecting a headamp directly to the cards RCA outputs. I mean, there might be some tiny difference, I THINK the M1DAC has slightly more bass, (and thats probably placebo because reviews said it has great bass performance) and STX is maybe slightly brighter and detailed sounding in the highs...but its like 99% identical to my ears.  I also had the Essence One for a few days for testing, as well as Teac UD-H01 and CA Dacmagic plus, and while their headphone outputs varied from the STX and from each other, the DAC sections pretty much were all on par with each other. In other words, if someone put all of them on a table without letting me know how many DAC's there will be tested, blindfolded me before, and then switched between them, I doubt I'd be able to tell which one costs 1000$, which one is the STX, etc.  IMHO, STX DAC specs are one of the best out there, regardless of price, and it uses one of the best DAC chips available on the market, as well as pretty much some of the best other components available as well...and is built by a company that makes motherboards, graphics cards, etc., stuff that is technically a couple of lightyears ahead of soundcards, so as far as "assembly" of the parts and the technical side of things go, I think it cant get much better than it is now.
   
  If you really wanted to hear any significant difference, you'd probably have to go for some seriously expensive professional DAC's or soundcards like the ones used in recording studios.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> In my experience, nope, haven't found a DAC that I found really superior.  I have the Musical Fidelity M1DAC that I use for a speaker setup, which is about 1000$ (or was when it was new a couple of years ago), in all major reviews everyone pretty much raved about it and called it the gaint killer, or something that can pretty much perform as good as any DAC regardless of price, blah blah...but to be honest, I don't hear any difference when using it between the STX and headphone amps as opposed to connecting a headamp directly to the cards RCA outputs. I mean, there might be some tiny difference, I THINK the M1DAC has slightly more bass, (and thats probably placebo because reviews said it has great bass performance) and STX is maybe slightly brighter and detailed sounding in the highs...but its like 99% identical to my ears.  I also had the Essence One for a few days for testing, as well as Teac UD-H01 and CA Dacmagic plus, and while their headphone outputs varied from the STX and from each other, the DAC sections pretty much were all on par with each other. In other words, if someone put all of them on a table without letting me know how many DAC's there will be tested, blindfolded me before, and then switched between them, I doubt I'd be able to tell which one costs 1000$, which one is the STX, etc.  IMHO, STX DAC specs are one of the best out there, regardless of price, and it uses one of the best DAC chips available on the market, as well as pretty much some of the best other components available as well...and is built by a company that makes motherboards, graphics cards, etc., stuff that is technically a couple of lightyears ahead of soundcards, so as far as "assembly" of the parts and the technical side of things go, I think it cant get much better than it is now.
> 
> If you really wanted to hear any significant difference, you'd probably have to go for some seriously expensive professional DAC's or soundcards like the ones used in recording studios.


 
  Nice writeup. 
   
  The only problem I'm having is the amps I see in your sig. None of them are particularly great. They are all decent don't get me wrong, but if you have a $1000 DAC you should have an $1000+ amp and $1000 headphones, or you won't hear the difference because thats the choke in the chain.
   
  Now if you had something like a Woo instead of the Bellari, or a Burson instead of the Headbox then I would shut my yap.
   
  If your happy, stay as you are. But I'm saying just because you didn't hear a difference SPECIFICALLY because of your setup, then it doesn't mean others with fairly deep pockets won't, Because I'm sure they will


----------



## igagnidz

I just got a Xonar STX and when I turn PC on and off, or when I switch between speakers and headphones using supplied application from asus, I hear a tick from sound card. its not through speakers, its from actual physical card. Is that normal? do you guys experience same thing?


----------



## burrrcub

Quote: 





igagnidz said:


> I just got a Xonar STX and when I turn PC on and off, or when I switch between speakers and headphones using supplied application from asus, I hear a tick from sound card. its not through speakers, its from actual physical card. Is that normal? do you guys experience same thing?


 
  Yes that's normal.  Someone mentioned it's the protection relay to keep your headphone from popping.


----------



## igagnidz

Thanks. I even contacted Asus support, and they said it was not normal. what you know, community knows more and better than official support.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





igagnidz said:


> I just got a Xonar STX and when I turn PC on and off, or when I switch between speakers and headphones using supplied application from asus, I hear a tick from sound card. its not through speakers, its from actual physical card. Is that normal? do you guys experience same thing?


 

 The actual card packs three NEC® DPST relays to switch the outputs of the onboard DAC's amongst three analog output connections, viz., the dual RCA jacks ("2 Speakers"), the single 1/4" jack ("Headphone"), and the internal header to the computer's front audio ("Front 2 Speakers," "Front Headphone").  The dual RCA's are driven by the Line Level Buffer dual op amp, which is a National Semiconductor®/Texas instruments® LM4562AN in stock form; upgrades from Texas Instruments® (including Brown-Burr® OPA and National Semiconductor® LME), Analog Devices®, NEC®, &c., are available, some of which require a dual 8-pin SOIC to JEDEC 8-pin DIP adapter subframe.  The 1/4" output is driven by a Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 dual power amplifier.
   
  The "clicking" of at least one relay cycling is normal when Microsoft® Windows® 6-up boots, both with the official Asus® XONAR® software and the Unified XONAR® Software by Brainbit.  Don't know if that's also the case with the ALSA Virtuoso driver for LinUX.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Nice writeup.
> 
> The only problem I'm having is the amps I see in your sig. None of them are particularly great. They are all decent don't get me wrong, but if you have a $1000 DAC you should have an $1000+ amp and $1000 headphones, or you won't hear the difference because thats the choke in the chain.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Its not the only amps I've ever tried, I had and tested a lot of various amps, including the Musical Fidelity M1HPA that I had for a while, which is pretty excellent solid state for 800-900$, and again there were no major differences.  Besides, I dont think I need 1000$ headphones to hear a difference. Something as unforgiving and transparent as K701's is more than enough. I can clearly hear a difference between the amps I have, but between DAC's, not really. And actually, there SHOULDN'T be much differences between DAC's when you get to that level anyway. I'm not saying that more expensive DAC's wont be better, but the differences wont be major.  Its not like when you get a 1000$ DAC instead of a 200$ one, you'll hear the same amount of difference or improvement as you would hear between headphones for 200 and 1000 bucks. 
   
  So,  in my experiences, to answer the question whether one should upgrade to a more expensive DAC from Asus STX or ST.  No, unless you intend to pay a lot more money, as you said.  Probably, when you add up all the little improvements you gain by switching from 300-400$ headphones and ST to 1000$ headphones, amp and DAC, you'd hear a good difference. Still, nothing too major. Its very obvious that the prices raise exponentially in relation to actual improvements in sound you get, and in my experience that is particularly true when it comes to DAC's. Headphones and amps are a different story.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





igagnidz said:


> Thanks. I even contacted Asus support, and they said it was not normal. what you know, community knows more and better than official support.


 
   
   
  Typical customer support service.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





igagnidz said:


> Thanks. I even contacted Asus support, and they said it was not normal. what you know, community knows more and better than official support.


 
   
   
  Its definitely normal.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Its definitely normal.


 
   
  Indeed. The relays can be seen on this picture, there are a total of 7 of them, they are the white-ish rectangular shaped devices with "NEC JAPAN UC2-4.5NU" printed on them.


----------



## twildwood2

Yup mine does the same thing.
   
  What connection do people usually use for their STX card to an external amp?  Headphone Jack or RCA outputs?
   
  I ask because I notice very faint static when their is no music on and when I play videogames a slight buzz in the headphones.  Their is no buzz in load screens but only during in game playing.
    This buzz is not present when I just put the headphones direct to the soundcard.  I tried the amp with the same headphones with an Ipod and had no problem.  It only seems to be when I have this set up do I experience anything:
   
  Senns HD 600 to BH Crack Amp to STX sound card.  Gain set to normal. 
   
  Any thoughts?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## stv014

You probably have a ground loop between the PC and the external amplifier.


----------



## burrrcub

Quote: 





twildwood2 said:


> Yup mine does the same thing.
> 
> What connection do people usually use for their STX card to an external amp?  Headphone Jack or RCA outputs?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I run RCA to my M-Stage and when I had the PC360, there was no noise when connected to the card's headphone and microphone plugs.


----------



## mAnthony

Quote: 





igagnidz said:


> Thanks. I even contacted Asus support, and they said it was not normal. what you know, community knows more and better than official support.


 

 It's normal. Mine has been doing it since day 1, and when I contacted support, they said it was indeed normal. I think they even updated the documentation to say that there will be an audible click on power-on.

 I only hear it when I reboot the machine, doesn't bother me.


----------



## mAnthony

Hey all. So, I just upgraded my Op Amps from stock to the TI LME49720s. I'm not happy with the change. Tried with both my Grados and Sennheisers, and I think they sound noticeably worse than stock, which surprises me greatly. Has anyone else upgraded to these op amps and _not_ been happy? It's hard to look through 275 pages, but it seems like most posts I see about them are rather glowing.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Opamps are like flavors, some like one flavor and some like others.  You also have to consider that not all opamps will be a good match with whatever cans you are using also.
  You might have to experiment to find the best match for your gear and ears.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Its not the only amps I've ever tried, I had and tested a lot of various amps, including the Musical Fidelity M1HPA that I had for a while, which is pretty excellent solid state for 800-900$, and again there were no major differences.  Besides, I dont think I need 1000$ headphones to hear a difference. Something as unforgiving and transparent as K701's is more than enough. I can clearly hear a difference between the amps I have, but between DAC's, not really. And actually, there SHOULDN'T be much differences between DAC's when you get to that level anyway. I'm not saying that more expensive DAC's wont be better, but the differences wont be major.  Its not like when you get a 1000$ DAC instead of a 200$ one, you'll hear the same amount of difference or improvement as you would hear between headphones for 200 and 1000 bucks.
> 
> So,  in my experiences, to answer the question whether one should upgrade to a more expensive DAC from Asus STX or ST.  No, unless you intend to pay a lot more money, as you said.  Probably, when you add up all the little improvements you gain by switching from 300-400$ headphones and ST to 1000$ headphones, amp and DAC, you'd hear a good difference. Still, nothing too major. Its very obvious that the prices raise exponentially in relation to actual improvements in sound you get, and in my experience that is particularly true when it comes to DAC's. Headphones and amps are a different story.


 
  The law of diminishing returns, I completely agree that with DAC's it sets in way before the other components, I have said before that the difference between a **** DAC and a decent one is phenomenal, but the difference between a decent one and TOTL one is minor.
  And completely agree with AKG's reflecting the differences up the chain. I use them when I'm swapping opamps. 
   
   
  Quote: 





manthony said:


> Hey all. So, I just upgraded my Op Amps from stock to the TI LME49720s. I'm not happy with the change. Tried with both my Grados and Sennheisers, and I think they sound noticeably worse than stock, which surprises me greatly. Has anyone else upgraded to these op amps and _not_ been happy? It's hard to look through 275 pages, but it seems like most posts I see about them are rather glowing.


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-st-headphone-7-1-channel-audio-card-for-audiophiles#wiki


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

What would be a good set of op-amps to pair with a DT990? I would imagine something on the warmer side would be nice. I really don't want anything that'll emphasize treble.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> What would be a good set of op-amps to pair with a DT990? I would imagine something on the warmer side would be nice. I really don't want anything that'll emphasize treble.


 
  THS4032 - My friend is rocking it ATM.


----------



## ZaxarC

Hello!!!!
I want change stock op amps in I/V, but i understand that the quality of sound depends on the brand of the headphones and my ears 
 What op amps would be a major change after the stock ones in your opinion?
   
thanks


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> Hello!!!!
> I want change stock op amps in I/V, but i understand that the quality of sound depends on the brand of the headphones and my ears
> What op amps would be a major change after the stock ones in your opinion?
> 
> thanks


 
  What sound are you after, what headpnones/speakers are you using, what kind of music do you listen to. 
   
And first - check here


----------



## ZaxarC

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> What sound are you after, what headpnones/speakers are you using, what kind of music do you listen to.
> 
> And first - check here


 
   
  Headphones are AKG K550.
   
  True Metal, Blues, Classical.
   
  which of those LME49990, AD797 & THS4032


----------



## ZaxarC

I think we need to add a ferrite filter on molex, because analog part takes power from molex.
   
  something like this
  http://www.overclockers.ua/blogs/users/gallery/462/88/2000_2602ee9a30.jpg


----------



## Simcon

wir3d said:


> What sound are you after, what headpnones/speakers are you using, what kind of music do you listen to.
> 
> And first - check here




Even though the post wasn't directed towards me, I did find the information in the link useful and made me change some of my settings and change from the standard asus program (Don't know why, but I hadn't looked at the end of the page about the card before). But I swear that ASIO in foobar tried to kill me when I tried it, had max output from foobars volume setting (as always before), but it decided to disregarded the system volume, it got really (freakishly) loud, I doubt the headphones got damaged, but my ears are still soar and hurts . Never gonna abandon wasapi, asio is evil . Guess I overlooked something when changing stuff, but still...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> Headphones are AKG K550.
> 
> True Metal, Blues, Classical.
> 
> which of those LME49990, AD797 & THS4032


 
  Ouch, Definitely THS4032, you need the smoothness in the treble, and the the AD797 will murder your ears. (I have AKG K242HD, and K550) I dont like the K550, and I HIGHLY recommend you EQ the treble down by 30%. Them K550's treble is evil.
   
  Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> I think we need to add a ferrite filter on molex, because analog part takes power from molex.
> 
> something like this
> http://www.overclockers.ua/blogs/users/gallery/462/88/2000_2602ee9a30.jpg


 
  Couldn't hurt - but I would wait for stv014 to prove it useful or a waste of time, in him I trust.


----------



## ZaxarC

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Ouch, Definitely THS4032, you need the smoothness in the treble, and the the AD797 will murder your ears. (I have AKG K242HD, and K550) I dont like the K550, and I HIGHLY recommend you EQ the treble down by 30%. Them K550's treble is evil.
> 
> Couldn't hurt - but I would wait for stv014 to prove it useful or a waste of time, in him I trust.


 
THS4032 is a single channel op amp, I mean there must be two op amps on the adapter (one on the adapter and one under the adapter).
Is this right one?
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d
   
Can u please inform me when you see if stv014 has the results and tell me if useful or not.
Ok thanks a lot!


----------



## ZaxarC

Have anyone tried out MUSES op amps?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> THS4032 is a single channel op amp, I mean there must be two op amps on the adapter (one on the adapter and one under the adapter).
> Is this right one?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d
> 
> ...


 
  No its a dual channel, but that link is correct, I bough mine from them.
  Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> Have anyone tried out MUSES op amps?


 
  Nope, but Asus sells a special edition Essence One with them. soooo...


----------



## ZaxarC

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> No its a dual channel, but that link is correct, I bough mine from them.
> Nope, but Asus sells a special edition Essence One with them. soooo...


 
  OK thank you. For I/V i will bay THS4032CD.
  But for RCA buffer?????? Can i put AD797BR in buffer?
  My speakers are junk BOSE Companion 2.
   
  I think ASUS will make special edition for xonar essence stx/st too.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> OK thank you. For I/V i will bay THS4032CD.
> But for RCA buffer?????? Can i put AD797BR in buffer?
> My speakers are junk BOSE Companion 2.
> 
> I think ASUS will make special edition for xonar essence stx/st too.


 
  Probably not, you may aswell buy the Muses out of your own - works out the same. 
  mmmm I actually can't help there.... I was busy testing buffers before my pc got taken out by lightening...... 
  the AD797BR should work well - IF it doesn't oscillate, some members have got it to oscilate, and some have got it stable, I think the other opamps make a big difference, I think mine were oscillating in the I/V section. 
   
  One thing is for sure - 3 THS4032 is just a bit too smooth.


----------



## ZaxarC

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Probably not, you may aswell buy the Muses out of your own - works out the same.
> mmmm I actually can't help there.... I was busy testing buffers before my pc got taken out by lightening......
> the AD797BR should work well - IF it doesn't oscillate, some members have got it to oscilate, and some have got it stable, I think the other opamps make a big difference, I think mine were oscillating in the I/V section.
> 
> One thing is for sure - 3 THS4032 is just a bit too smooth.


 
  ok thanks a lot!
 I'm sorry that the lighting harmed your pc...i had a similar accident except for it ruined only my LAN port, the board survived haha


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Probably not, you may aswell buy the Muses out of your own - works out the same.
> mmmm I actually can't help there.... I was busy testing buffers before my pc got taken out by lightening......
> the AD797BR should work well - IF it doesn't oscillate, some members have got it to oscilate, and some have got it stable, I think the other opamps make a big difference, I think mine were oscillating in the I/V section.
> 
> One thing is for sure - 3 THS4032 is just a bit too smooth.


 

 How do you think that an LME 49860 would work out in the buffer with a pair of THS4032s?


----------



## gibbro

I have had my STX for about a month now, I have had nothing but problems.
   
  The STX is in a windows 7 pc which has been very stable, I use the STX as an SPDIF passthrough via coax to a Yulong D100 II and onwards to MD5000DE/Q701/SR60i/Whatever. 
   
  I love the ability to use the STX software for Dolby and for gaming and movies. 
   
  Ever since that soundcard went in I average about 4-8 BSOD's a day. Always when a sound is played, could be a windows volume ding, a song played or a movie starting. I have tried several versions of drivers and even 3rd party drivers.
   
  No issues when my E17 or D100 is used via USB as the sound device.
   
  I may have read that my video card (HD5870) has an IRQ compatibility issue with the STX and I do see IRQ errors in allot of the BSOD's. Id rather not dump $300 for a new videocard  . 
   
  Has anyone here had these issues? I do not wan't to get rid of it but it is driving me mad.
   
  I would like to keep it so I can use it with my monitor speakers as well, I noticed with the Yulong that when the RCA outs at the back were plugged into my speakers (BX5a's which have their own power supplies) there was noticeable noise on the headphone outs.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





zaxarc said:


> ok thanks a lot!
> I'm sorry that the lighting harmed your pc...i had a similar accident except for it ruined only my LAN port, the board survived haha


 
  how long ago? thats what happened to mine, 1 months later it started freezing, 2 months later it was freezing in bios. Apparently this is what generally happens. and because its LGA1366 its out of production and JUST out of warranty - insurance claim, entire new PC en route.
  Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> How do you think that an LME 49860 would work out in the buffer with a pair of THS4032s?


 
  I hate that chip. its a nice buffer if you hate having bass and don't care for wonky upper mids.
   
  Quote: 





gibbro said:


> I have had my STX for about a month now, I have had nothing but problems.
> 
> The STX is in a windows 7 pc which has been very stable, I use the STX as an SPDIF passthrough via coax to a Yulong D100 II and onwards to MD5000DE/Q701/SR60i/Whatever.
> 
> ...


 
  Oh shiiiiit, I think uninstall both, use Driver Sweeper, clean the crap out of your pc, GFX back in, Asus back in - directly install unidrivers, no standard asus ones.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gibbro said:


> I would like to keep it so I can use it with my monitor speakers as well, I noticed with the Yulong that when the RCA outs at the back were plugged into my speakers (BX5a's which have their own power supplies) there was noticeable noise on the headphone outs.


 
   
   
  This problem appears to be related to grounding as in ground loop. The speakers are grounded & so is the computer, if the ground path is different as in different plug in out the wall ground loops will form & cause hum & other computer related noises to become audible.


----------



## cdd3068

ASUS Xonar Audio Center EQ generator that I made that will enable someone to create a more precise EQ:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/643967/headphone-eq-generator-for-xonar-audio-center


----------



## Leonarfd

Hey, I am about maybe order an Asus Xonar Essence One, already have a stx but I cant be bothered anymore as about to get my PC behind a wall to get rid of noise and to have it cleaer int he living room.. If I use a spdif cable out from my stx and into the essence one can I get the dolby headphone feature?
   
  As for price it is ridicilous as the Xonar Essence One cost the same as magni+modi/o2+odac and much more here  in norway, since it cost so much to Ship/Customs/VAT.  some way Asus can get there stuff into Norway a cheap way. Anyone who would advice something else? think it is hard to top it due to the price.


----------



## Bensen

Hey there,
   
  I've got the Essence Stx for about a month now and would like to get some opinions from some more experienced users concerning sound quality. I use foobar to play music from my computer. And my setup when i don't use my speakers is: matrix m-stage -> AKG Q701.
   
  1) From what I have read following options are preferred by many people here: Sox resampler (or PPHS in ultra mode) resampling to 48 or 96 in foobar, adjust the resampling of Stx, and use wasapi (event). I just don't get how upsampling is improving the sound quality when there are no additional informations in 44.1 khz audio files?! Also I heard about many people getting some kind of bug with 24bit and 44khz? I didn't notice anything like that so far.. Would be nice to hear your opinion on that!
   
  2) What buffer length do you use and does shorter buffer length really increase sound quality to some extend?
   
  3) Since using dolby headphone is no option when using the regular line-out -> m-stage -> q701: What options would you recommend using for first person games?
 I read about 8ch and 7.1 virtual speaker activated..
   
  4) What driver are you using? Standard Asus or Uni Xonar? Heard good and bad things about the Unified Xonar Drivers... Is it improving the sound?
   
   
  Thanks a lot and Cheers!


----------



## igagnidz

Anyone has a suggestion which driver I should use? 
  On Asus' website there is a version 7.12.8.1794 released on 2011/06/27 and there is also BETA 7.12.8.17731 bit-perfect ASIO driver released on 2010/05/05.
   
  I was wondering if anyone knows if lates version 7.12.8.1794 released on 2011/06/27 is also ASIO bit perfect driver?
   
  Or should I get some other driver?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Bensen

When you use WASAPI or ASIO it should always be "bit perfect" if I'm not mistaken?


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





igagnidz said:


> Anyone has a suggestion which driver I should use?
> On Asus' website there is a version 7.12.8.1794 released on 2011/06/27 and there is also BETA 7.12.8.17731 bit-perfect ASIO driver released on 2010/05/05.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows if lates version 7.12.8.1794 released on 2011/06/27 is also ASIO bit perfect driver?
> ...


 

 The aftermarket has a better driver/application package than Asus®, in the form of the Unified XONAR® Software by Brainbit, Release 1.53 (C-Media® CMI8788 Driver 7.12.8.1796); I've been using it regularly under Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001 and, except for the once-in-a-blue-moon 6 kHz howl for which Microsoft® has a FIX COMMITTED (see "Xonar Essense stx Random LOUD high-pitched Ringing Noise?"), have had no problems.  Some users have reported problems with the Unified XONAR® Software, Releases 1.6x (C-Media® CMI8000-Series Driver Package 7.12.8.18nn), under Windows® 6.0.600x, 6.1.760x and 7.0.800x with the Essence STX; don't know whether a FIX RELEASED is now available in Windows® 8.0.9000.


----------



## howzz1854

is anyone having the same issue of when you put the computer to sleep, and sometimes, only sometimes when you wake it up, the Essence STX looses its volume. and i mean overall volume is dropped by like some 30db. doesn't matter what volume is you set it to, or gain level, everything just sounds almost silent. only way to fix this is to either restart, or log off and log back on. 
   
  just wondering if this is a driver issue, or that i should return the card and get a new one.


----------



## majnu

Hi
   
  I have my STX connected to my STR 2400ES amp. It's connected via Optical. When I watch Dolby movies the blue light which indicates a dolby signal is being received doesn't light up on the amp. The STX is set to send PCM. Is there any other setting which I should have enabled or disabled to get this to work?
   
  Thanks 
   
  Edit - NVM seems using 2 channels on the amp doesn't light the indicator. As long as LPCM is showing it is apparently still receiving a dolby source.


----------



## crossfire

So I'm not understanding this ASIO stuff from this link: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki
   
  Do you have to install the plugin separately into foobar or does the Uni Xonar drivers already include them?


----------



## kotk

Hi, is anybody else  experiencing a pop when you start playing a sound (music, video, it doesn't really matter). It happens most of the time, but not always. Sometimes  it's very loud and it's starting to bother me.

 Thanks for any help.


----------



## Cynips

Quote: 





kotk said:


> Hi, is anybody else  experiencing a pop when you start playing a sound (music, video, it doesn't really matter). It happens most of the time, but not always. Sometimes  it's very loud and it's starting to bother me.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


 
  No, I never had even a hint of that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





majnu said:


> I have my STX connected to my STR 2400ES amp. It's connected via Optical. When I watch Dolby movies the blue light which indicates a Dolby signal is being received doesn't light up on the amp. The STX is set to send PCM. Is there any other setting which I should have enabled or disabled to get this to work?
> Edit - NVM seems using 2 channels on the amp doesn't light the indicator. As long as LPCM is showing it is apparently still receiving a Dolby source.


 
  How many speakers are connected to the Sony?
   
  STX output setting for receiver/speaker 5.1
  Audio channels  6
  Sample Rate   24/96
  Audio Out   2-speaker
  S/PDIF enabled, set to Dolby Digital live (DDL).
   
  PCM is 2-channel (which is fine for 2.0 or 2.1 analog speaker)
  Dolby Digital live (DDL) is up to 6-channels (5.1) of compressed audio.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> is anyone having the same issue of when you put the computer to sleep, and sometimes, only sometimes when you wake it up, the Essence STX looses its volume. and i mean overall volume is dropped by like some 30db. doesn't matter what volume is you set it to, or gain level, everything just sounds almost silent. only way to fix this is to either restart, or log off and log back on.
> 
> just wondering if this is a driver issue, or that i should return the card and get a new one.


 
   
  so no one has this issue at all? am i the only one?


----------



## Simcon

howzz1854 said:


> so no one has this issue at all? am i the only one?




What drivers are you using?


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





simcon said:


> What drivers are you using?


 
i am using the latest Asus driver from their website. i am hesitant to use the Unified driver since it's not official.


----------



## crossfire

Quote: 





crossfire said:


> So I'm not understanding this ASIO stuff from this link: http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki
> 
> Do you have to install the plugin separately into foobar or does the Uni Xonar drivers already include them?


 
  No one?


----------



## appsmarsterx

hello, is Dolby headphone in Essense STX better than Xear surround headphone ? I currently have Xonar Phoebus and xear surround headphone option is absolutely terrible in my Phoebus ..And I m also not satisfied with the Dolby Home Theater 4 too. so I'm thinking about moving in to STX. can someone please comment on Dolby Headphone, Dolby Virtual Speaker and Dolby Pro-Logic II on STX .. ?


----------



## gbickle

Ok so I have an STX and some HD800 headphones I recently bought. Just didnt quite sound right. Female vocals had a bit of hissing etc. Seemed like others had similar experiences. So I ran a sine wave sweep and noticed around 5400hz and 6800hz had massive spikes for example.
   
  I spent about an hour equalizing and now find music so much more natural. In fact after listening to my equalized profile for awhile on classical guitar then going back to the default setting it sounds so unnatural its amazing.
   
  I have ordered a couple of different op amps to try as well so will be interesting to see if they are more natural than the default ones or whether they require equalizing as well. will report back asap.
   
  Anyway I am now very happy with this combo and am not tempted to get a higher end headphone DAC and amp combination. I might also take some music im used to listening to a HI-FI store down the road that have a High end Amp with the HD800's and let you know how I think it compares to the equalized Xonar STX.


----------



## Utopia

Generally speaking, does swapping opamps change the output level of the soundcard (I'm thinking through the RCA line level outputs) or should it be more or less the same?


----------



## ROBSCIX

No, the output values are not really set in that way.


----------



## Copyright

Just read about these Unified drivers.. are they really better than the asus drivers?  I am runnign windows 8 64bit at the moment.  Thx for any info.. What advantages do they have over the Asus drivers?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





copyright said:


> What advantages do they have over the Asus drivers?


 
   
  Importantly, none in terms of sound.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gbickle said:


> Ok so I have an STX and some HD800 headphones I recently bought. Just didnt quite sound right. Female vocals had a bit of hissing etc. Seemed like others had similar experiences. So I ran a sine wave sweep and noticed around 5400hz and 6800hz had massive spikes for example.
> 
> I spent about an hour equalizing and now find music so much more natural. In fact after listening to my equalized profile for awhile on classical guitar then going back to the default setting it sounds so unnatural its amazing.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  STX op-amps are very neutral, those spikes you hear are not caused by the STX. The frequency response of the card is ruler flat in the audible area of the frequency spectrum, and far beyond that. HD800's are the reason for those huge spikes at 5-7khz area. It's the "presence" area of frequency response that gives the HD800's their bright and aggressive character. You won't change that drastically with an amplifier or a DAC, or op-amps for that matter. That's just how the HD800's sound, and no matter what op-amps you put inside the STX, you will not get a drastic improvement, only slight barely audible changes. If you find you have to EQ the HD800's to get the sound you want now with the STX (which is at least 90% as good as any DAC on the market regardless of price), you will have to EQ it in every setup, no matter how high-end it is, unless you use them in some really colored dark setup.  That's why you see so many people hating the HD800's for their sharp and aggressive high end, and you have people modify them physically with various felts and sponge inserts in the ear cups to tame down the highs.


----------



## gbickle

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> STX op-amps are very neutral, those spikes you hear are not caused by the STX. The frequency response of the card is ruler flat in the audible area of the frequency spectrum, and far beyond that. HD800's are the reason for those huge spikes at 5-7khz area. It's the "presence" area of frequency response that gives the HD800's their bright and aggressive character. You won't change that drastically with an amplifier or a DAC, or op-amps for that matter. That's just how the HD800's sound, and no matter what op-amps you put inside the STX, you will not get a drastic improvement, only slight barely audible changes. If you find you have to EQ the HD800's to get the sound you want now with the STX (which is at least 90% as good as any DAC on the market regardless of price), you will have to EQ it in every setup, no matter how high-end it is, unless you use them in some really colored dark setup.  That's why you see so many people hating the HD800's for their sharp and aggressive high end, and you have people modify them physically with various felts and sponge inserts in the ear cups to tame down the highs.


 
   
  Yes after plugging some $50 Sony's in the frequency response is relatively smooth. I cant help thinking that the massive spikes on the HD800 (im having to reduce one by 10db in the equalizer) are a lot to do with the resonance they produce in my ears. I just cant imagine anybody enjoying the unnatural treble I was getting before equalization. Im talking physically painful to listen to.
   
  The HD800 must vary a lot with the characteristics of each persons ears.


----------



## Copyright

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Importantly, none in terms of sound.


 

 So then why would anyone run them?


----------



## Honkytime

Quote: 





copyright said:


> So then why would anyone run them?


 
  its choice.
  its like buying a coke or Pepsi there different in some ways but made with the same stuff so its just a matter of opinion.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





gbickle said:


> Yes after plugging some $50 Sony's in the frequency response is relatively smooth. I cant help thinking that the massive spikes on the HD800 (im having to reduce one by 10db in the equalizer) are a lot to do with the resonance they produce in my ears. I just cant imagine anybody enjoying the unnatural treble I was getting before equalization. Im talking physically painful to listen to.
> 
> The HD800 must vary a lot with the characteristics of each persons ears.


 
   
  Its their characteristic sound.
  Check out these graphs, you see how much the 5khz and above areas are lifted. There's some 8 db's of lift at 7khz in relation to 1khz.
  http://en.goldenears.net/4326


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





copyright said:


> So then why would anyone run them?


 
   
   Apparently some people have stability issues with the regular drivers.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





gbickle said:


> Ok so I have an STX and some HD800 headphones I recently bought. Just didnt quite sound right. Female vocals had a bit of hissing etc. Seemed like others had similar experiences. So I ran a sine wave sweep and noticed around 5400hz and 6800hz had massive spikes for example.
> 
> I spent about an hour equalizing and now find music so much more natural. In fact after listening to my equalized profile for awhile on classical guitar then going back to the default setting it sounds so unnatural its amazing.
> 
> ...


 
  Ok heres the big issue, the HD800 cost $1000, they need a $1500 headphone amp, and a $1000+ DAC to shine. anyone with 2 braincells or that knows anything about them will tell you that (Go check in the Summit-fi section)
   
  Also, they do have boosted treble peaks. And they knows to be analytical, so any remote flaw they will show. you need pristine quality gear and source files for them. They are definitely not for everyone. 
   
  I'm sure you will notice a difference if you change the opamps to THS4032, they are much smoother then the stock crappy JRC's, trust me on that, I recommend them for analytical headphones like AKG's.
   
  if the treble quantity still bothers you. equalizer. Only solution.
  Quote: 





copyright said:


> Just read about these Unified drivers.. are they really better than the asus drivers?  I am runnign windows 8 64bit at the moment.  Thx for any info.. What advantages do they have over the Asus drivers?


 
  Yes, better stability, stuff works like its supposed to (depending on build) and better asio consistency.
  Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Importantly, none in terms of sound.


 
  Don't believe that. it was giving me some wierdness using the official drivers.
  Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> STX op-amps are very neutral, those spikes you hear are not caused by the STX. The frequency response of the card is ruler flat in the audible area of the frequency spectrum, and far beyond that. HD800's are the reason for those huge spikes at 5-7khz area. It's the "presence" area of frequency response that gives the HD800's their bright and aggressive character. You won't change that drastically with an amplifier or a DAC, or op-amps for that matter. That's just how the HD800's sound, and no matter what op-amps you put inside the STX, you will not get a drastic improvement, only slight barely audible changes. If you find you have to EQ the HD800's to get the sound you want now with the STX (which is at least 90% as good as any DAC on the market regardless of price), you will have to EQ it in every setup, no matter how high-end it is, unless you use them in some really colored dark setup.  That's why you see so many people hating the HD800's for their sharp and aggressive high end, and you have people modify them physically with various felts and sponge inserts in the ear cups to tame down the highs.


 
  neutral..... according to FR, but plug in some headphones and you can instantly tell the treble is harsh and the bass is boosted and sloppy. No debate there. THS4032 all the way. But you are right about the rest.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Ok heres the big issue, the HD800 cost $1000, they need a $1500 headphone amp, and a $1000+ DAC to shine. anyone with 2 braincells or that knows anything about them will tell you that (Go check in the Summit-fi section)


 
   
  That is flawed logic. Why not also a $1500 headphone cable, $1500 power cord, $1500 op amps, $1500 player software, and so on ? The assumption that components should be "price matched" for optimal performance ignores the fact that not all components need to be equally expensive for the same level of performance, both for technical and economical reasons. Even with a <$200 sound card and $1500 headphone, the weak link can easily be the latter, because it is much harder to make a high quality transducer, and the headphone is also made in much smaller quantities, which means the R&D costs are divided between fewer units sold, making them more expensive. The same applies to "high end" boutique audiophile amplifiers and DACs, which have greatly inflated prices due to the use of exotic and often obsolete technologies (tubes etc.), and very small scale production, rather than because of sounding 100 times (or even at all) better.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WiR3D* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also, they do have boosted treble peaks. And they knows to be analytical, so any remote flaw they will show. you need pristine quality gear and source files for them. They are definitely not for everyone.


 
   
  If they sound flawed because of boosted treble peaks, then that shows flaws in the HD800 (and quite possibly the poorly mastered music which also has boosted treble to sound better on lo-fi equipment like ear buds or Beats Solos, and a lot of clipping), rather than the gear which is unlikely to have treble peaks, or properly correct them for that matter, other than by deliberate equalization.
   
  Quote:  





> neutral..... according to FR, but plug in some headphones and you can instantly tell the treble is harsh and the bass is boosted and sloppy. No debate there. THS4032 all the way. But you are right about the rest.


 
   
  Op amps do not care about headphones, except when actually driving them (which is not the case here). You hear harsh treble and boosted and sloppy bass because your Denon headphones have, well, harsh treble and boosted sloppy bass, which shows up on their frequency response measurements. The "cheap JRC op amps" are convenient scape goats. It is also easy to hear an improvement that does not actually exist when you know what you are listening to (and therefore expect a different sound), and swapping the chips takes long enough that you do not even fully remember what the old ones exactly sounded like by the time you listen to the new and allegedly better ones; the lost information is then filled by imagination and bias.
   
  However, when used properly and for their intended purpose, op amps - even fairly cheap ones - are indeed neutral. You can find samples recorded from gear that includes (often several) op amps in the signal path here, and try if you can tell them apart in an ABX comparator. The headphone output of the Xonar STX, using the stock JRC op amps, can be compared, too.


----------



## doco

anyone try the LT1028 ACN8 on the i/v op amps? i'm curious to give it a go. there are the ones i have. there shouldn't be any problems if i put them in, right?
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/IC-2x-LT1028ACN8-DIP-single-Op-amp-Ultralow-Noise-/350529800392?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519d3448c8


----------



## Audioexcels

Got the STX running right now. Will be comparing it to a couple of USB converters.  Question.  Has anyone been using these drivers here:
   
    http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
   
  Any thoughts/impressions on the sound?


----------



## Simcon

audioexcels said:


> Got the STX running right now. Will be comparing it to a couple of USB converters.  Question.  Has anyone been using these drivers here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jepp, I'm using them. They offer no disadvantages over the asus offical drivers, advantages would be that they're being actively improved and updated, which the asus ones really isn't... For me they doesn't offer any noticeable advantages, but I think there was some hassle with the official ones that made me change... but was a while ago so I really can't remember. Anyway, using the unified unoffical drivers should be a sure bet.


http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki


----------



## Audioexcels

Quote: 





simcon said:


> Jepp, I'm using them. They offer no disadvantages over the asus offical drivers, advantages would be that they're being actively improved and updated, which the asus ones really isn't... For me they doesn't offer any noticeable advantages, but I think there was some hassle with the official ones that made me change... but was a while ago so I really can't remember. Anyway, using the unified unoffical drivers should be a sure bet.
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx-virtual-7-1-channels-pci-express-interface-124-db-snr-headphone-amp-card#wiki


 
   
  Excellent stuff and thanks for the link.  I'm going to try the other setup just to see if I can hear the difference if any.  Never hurts and one should always at least try whatever methods are available for best sound. No point in simply making something work and not trying all the various options to see what works/sounds best.  I'll give this a go tomorrow and report what I hear.


----------



## azxb2b

hey guys, what exactly is the 24/44.1khz bug for the STX?
   
  most of my music is 44.1khz and im not sure what upsampling to 48 will do
   
   
  one more thing i wanted to ask was the volume you have set in windows audio, on lowest gain for my headphones i can only push it to 4-5% before it gets really loud, 100% volume would destroy my ears for sure. is it supposed to be this loud?


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





azxb2b said:


> hey guys, what exactly is the 24/44.1khz bug for the STX?


 
   
  It is not really a "bug" (at least not a software problem), but the DAC has a higher noise level when running at 44.1, 88.2, or 176.4 kHz, because of the re-clocking at these sample rates by the C-Media chip. This also applies to other Xonar cards. If you do not actually hear any hiss, then you need not really worry about it, and it might not be worth the trouble of software sample rate conversion to reduce already inaudible noise.
   
  Quote:  





> one more thing i wanted to ask was the volume you have set in windows audio, on lowest gain for my headphones i can only push it to 4-5% before it gets really loud, 100% volume would destroy my ears for sure. is it supposed to be this loud?


 
   
  That depends on what your headphones are. Do you have some very sensitive model ? Also, check the mixer settings, and make sure that the volume is not boosted by anything (particularly the "left" and "right" controls, which should be left at the default 76% level).


----------



## azxb2b

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It is not really a "bug" (at least not a software problem), but the DAC has a higher noise level when running at 44.1, 88.2, or 176.4 kHz, because of the re-clocking at these sample rates by the C-Media chip. This also applies to other Xonar cards. If you do not actually hear any hiss, then you need not really worry about it, and it might not be worth the trouble of software sample rate conversion to reduce already inaudible noise.


 
  thanks, i guess i'll leave it at 44 as i've never heard any hissing
   
  popping on the other hand though, the SVN is useful but resuming playback comes with a pop - is this unusual?
  EDIT: i guess its just an issue caused by SVN as a few others have had similar issues, time to disable it then
   


> That depends on what your headphones are.


 
   
  HD 650s


----------



## Simcon

stv014 said:


> It is not really a "bug" (at least not a software problem), but the DAC has a higher noise level when running at 44.1, 88.2, or 176.4 kHz, because of the re-clocking at these sample rates by the C-Media chip. This also applies to other Xonar cards. If you do not actually hear any hiss, then you need not really worry about it, and it might not be worth the trouble of software sample rate conversion to reduce already inaudible noise.
> 
> 
> That depends on what your headphones are. Do you have some very sensitive model ? Also, check the mixer settings, and make sure that the volume is not boosted by anything (particularly the "left" and "right" controls, which should be left at the default 76% level).




Hmm, that might explain one issue I had with one headphone where it was hissing unreasonably much


----------



## azxb2b

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> That depends on what your headphones are. Do you have some very sensitive model ? Also, check the mixer settings, and make sure that the volume is not boosted by anything (particularly the "left" and "right" controls, which should be left at the default 76% level).


 
   
  yep it was at default 76%. afaik its just a standard pair of HD650s but even on the lowest gain i have to keep the audio in windows around 5-7% before it starts getting uncomfortable. if i take the cans off and notch it up to 100% i can hear everything blaring out of em, could rip through ear drums.
   
  so i could keep the status quo, or turn down the 76% setting in the xonar mixer to around 5% and raise windows level much higher. but its the same thing isnt it
   
*if anyone else the same setup (stx and hd650s) i would appreciate your input. what volume levels are comfortable and too loud for you?*
   
  cheers


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





azxb2b said:


> yep it was at default 76%. afaik its just a standard pair of HD650s but even on the lowest gain i have to keep the audio in windows around 5-7% before it starts getting uncomfortable.


 
   
  There are three volume controls, the "Left/Right" that should be 76%, the "Wave" control on the left, and the main volume control (the large knob at the top right). These and the gain setting together determine the volume. The main volume control seems to be linear, so if you use that to set the volume while "Wave" is at 100%, then it will get loud at a relatively low setting because of how humans perceive volume.

  You may also want to check if all DSP, EQ, SVN, Dolby Headphone, etc. are disabled, as some of these could also make the sound louder overall.
   
  Quote:  





> HD 650s


 
   
  44.1 kHz is probably fine then. It is still recommended to set the Windows audio output resolution to 24 bits, as it minimizes noise from the software volume control, and it does not have any real disadvantage.


----------



## azxb2b

all effects are confirmed disabled but i dont have an option for wave or the other two under mixer, i only see left and right, both of which are at 76%.
   
  hmmm


----------



## connieflyer

Those are the same settings I see on my install.  Never had more than just left and right channel to select.


----------



## azxb2b

i guess im gonna have to live with this ;_;


----------



## CMKMStephens

Created an account for a bit of troubleshooting. Bought a Xonar STX for gaming, and there seems to be an issue with the Headphone connection. Basically, left audio comes out about 20-30% louder, or rather right audio is 20-30% quieter.
   
  - Fiddling with the mixer doesn't compensate very well, and I don't think I should have to be right out of the box.
  - I've confirmed its not the headphones (Beyer DT990) as A): these work perfectly with a Fiio E10, B): connecting them to the left/right splitter and plugging those in, changing the settings to '2 speakers' does not cause the same issue, and C): the issue is replicated connecting the only other headphones I have, some earbuds to the 6.3mm adaptor, and again left far louder, right far quieter. 
   
  Is there likely to be a software conflict anywhere, or is this just a straight up defect in the headphone connection?


----------



## derbigpr

Ok, just a question for anyone using the STX with a AKG K701/2 in their setup, or a similar headphone (bright). Which op-amps are you using? I'm looking to replace the stock ones, both in the RCA output buffer and the two for headphone out. What I want is a plain out improvement of the sound. I'm not going to replace the op-amps if I gain one thing, and lose something else, etc.  
   
  So, which op-amp will improve on the stock ones in a way that will elevate the sound quality up overall? I want an audible increase in sound resolution, detail, clarity, separation, etc. I'd like to keep the sound signature as neutral as possible, with possibly slightly more bass and smoother highs, but in no way do I want to lose the soundstage.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





cmkmstephens said:


> Created an account for a bit of troubleshooting. Bought a Xonar STX for gaming, and there seems to be an issue with the Headphone connection. Basically, left audio comes out about 20-30% louder, or rather right audio is 20-30% quieter.
> 
> - Fiddling with the mixer doesn't compensate very well, and I don't think I should have to be right out of the box.
> - I've confirmed its not the headphones (Beyer DT990) as A): these work perfectly with a Fiio E10, B): connecting them to the left/right splitter and plugging those in, changing the settings to '2 speakers' does not cause the same issue, and C): the issue is replicated connecting the only other headphones I have, some earbuds to the 6.3mm adaptor, and again left far louder, right far quieter.
> ...


 
  I would take it back if at all possible as the card is defective.
   
  If you can't take it back for some reason  I would say that there is a problem either with the resistors in the output network or in the feedback network. The gain of the headphone amp is fixed at 4x voltage gain over the line out. if one of the resistors is shorted or the other is open in the feedback network the gain will be lower than normal on that channel as in unity gain. this would yield the approximate 30 - 40 % volume difference as is takes a reduction of 10x the power to reach 50% perceived volume. A difference of 4x voltage = 8x power which is less than the 10x required for a 50% perceived reduction in volume
   
  If it is in the output they may have had a 100 ohm resistor where a 10 ohm resistor should have been. in this case the volume difference would be smaller with higher impedance phones & nonexistent with driving an amp from the headphone jack, though not recommended in normal practice it would be a good test of this theory.
   
  It could be a broken and oxidized connection at the headphone jack but not likely on a brand new out of the box card. In this case wiggling the connector would generate static noise & sudden changes in volume. If this occures when wiggling headphone plug the jack needs to be resoldered ..


----------



## volik2103

I have a ASUS Xonar D1 soundcard on my computer, and now I'm thinking to buy a Xonar Essence STX.  Who knos if I can use both soundcards, or shall i put just one on my computer?
  It will be driver compatile D1 with STX soundcard?
  Please advice me to choose better combination.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





volik2103 said:


> I have a ASUS Xonar D1 soundcard on my computer, and now I'm thinking to buy a Xonar Essence STX.  Who knos if I can use both soundcards, or shall i put just one on my computer?
> It will be driver compatile D1 with STX soundcard?
> Please advice me to choose better combination.


 
   
  If you get the STX, throw the D1 out.


----------



## Newland

Hi, I'm new here. I joined because I just purchased an Xonar STX and a pair of Ultrasone 580's to pair with it.  I'm wondering what op amps and op amp setup would be best for the 580's I have and an all around ecclectic taste of music. I listen to anything anywhere from Norah Jones, to Crystal Method, to Nirvana, even a little bit of rap/hiphop from time to time. TIA


----------



## Newland

Just kicking the tires, seeing if this thread is still rolling


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





newland said:


> Just kicking the tires, seeing if this thread is still rolling


 
  Yep still rolling


----------



## Snoozz

I bought AD797BR 3 weeks ago, and can say, that it's a good upgrade. Sound goes more aggresive, but there is a lot bigger soundstage, good clarity and overall it's better. Low impendance headphone is more sensitive to that op amp switching, that high impendance headphone. But now i still waiting for THS4032 abd LME49990 just for comparison. Think that THS4032 is good upgrade like AD797BR, maybe better (too many good feedbacks here), don't know, will see   All opamp were purchased on ebay and were delivered to (soviet) Russia.
   
  Tested on HD650 and CAL!. Wish you make a right decision


----------



## leom81

hello!
i'm a new user, and i need help. i just buy a Xonar Essence ST, and now i would like to change the three amp; i read various configuration, for example 2xLME49860 + LME49720NA or 3xLME49720NA, but i need help to choose the best and cheaper configuration.
can you please help me?


----------



## verde57

Important question:
  THS4032 or LME49990, which gets me more bass?
  Thanks,


----------



## matbhuvi

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Ok, just a question for anyone using the STX with a AKG K701/2 in their setup, or a similar headphone (bright). Which op-amps are you using? I'm looking to replace the stock ones, both in the RCA output buffer and the two for headphone out. What I want is a plain out improvement of the sound. I'm not going to replace the op-amps if I gain one thing, and lose something else, etc.
> 
> So, which op-amp will improve on the stock ones in a way that will elevate the sound quality up overall? I want an audible increase in sound resolution, detail, clarity, separation, etc. I'd like to keep the sound signature as neutral as possible, with possibly slightly more bass and smoother highs, but in no way do I want to lose the soundstage.


 

  LME49720 should fit the bill. I am using it for FA-011. I need to try   LME49990. I have read reviews that it is much warmer and fuller.


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





matbhuvi said:


> LME49720 should fit the bill. I am using it for FA-011. I need to try   LME49990. I have read reviews that it is much warmer and fuller.


 
  I'd love to know more about LME49990 warm/fuller sound as I'm currently using DT 990 Pro 250 with Xonar DGX. I feel that the DGX is still underamping the DT 990 Pro even on the highest gain (Exciter mode). I do get more than enough volume(preety loud actually) out using ASIO/Internal volume -12.5db but it doesn't sound better the ~$100 Beyerdynamic DTX 900 32ohm that used to pair with the DGX...long story short, I hope the STX+3x LME49990 will be the saving grace for my recessed/distant mid(vocal) and bright highs of the DT 990 Pro, though, it's only on its 3rd day burning-in.


----------



## Friskyseal

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> Important question:
> THS4032 or LME49990, which gets me more bass?
> Thanks,


 
   
  I've tried both in the Essence ST. Definitely LME49990. Although, any of these compared to the stock JRCs might be disappointing in the bass department, unless you think the stock is too bass-heavy.


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





friskyseal said:


> I've tried both in the Essence ST. Definitely LME49990. Although, any of these compared to the stock JRCs might be disappointing in the bass department, unless you think the stock is too bass-heavy.


 
  Good to know. How did you find the soundstage of LME49990. What about mids/treble, did you find any coloration from these op amps? Would you say the LME 49990 are warm sounding op amps, warmer than stock JRCs?
   
  Do you think these would compliment well with the already v-shaped DT 990 Pro to smooth/tame the treble spike and bring out the mids without sacrificing soundstage?


----------



## Cloud Spark

Quote: 





friskyseal said:


> I've tried both in the Essence ST. Definitely LME49990. Although, any of these compared to the stock JRCs might be disappointing in the bass department, unless you think the stock is too bass-heavy.


 
   
  Have you ever tried the LME49720 before? hows it sound compared to the LME49990 and stock amps?


----------



## Cloud Spark

Quote: 





cloud spark said:


> Have you ever tried the LME49720 before? hows it sound compared to the LME49990 and stock amps?


 
  Sorry i meant the AD797BR's*
  Il definitely have to buy them if they're more detailed than the stock op amps.


----------



## Friskyseal

Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> Good to know. How did you find the soundstage of LME49990. What about mids/treble, did you find any coloration from these op amps? Would you say the LME 49990 are warm sounding op amps, warmer than stock JRCs?
> 
> Do you think these would compliment well with the already v-shaped DT 990 Pro to smooth/tame the treble spike and bring out the mids without sacrificing soundstage?


 
   
  Quote: 





cloud spark said:


> Have you ever tried the LME49720 before? hows it sound compared to the LME49990 and stock amps?


 
   
  Quote: 





cloud spark said:


> Sorry i meant the AD797BR's*
> Il definitely have to buy them if they're more detailed than the stock op amps.


 
   
  I'll give some brief impressions. I've wasted way too much money on op amps for this sound card. Also, I've taken the shield off the card so many times that one of the screws will no longer screw in. If you plan to try many op amps, I recommend leaving the shield off until you settle on a set, and then put it back on.
   
  My headphone is the Sennheiser HD 380 Pro. [Clear, neutral, slightly warm, slight emphasis in the mid-bass and midrange.] It is a low-impedance phone so I am using the normal gain.
   
JRC2114 (stock): It's easy to find faults with these, but after trying out a bunch of op amps it becomes obvious how good they actually are, and might be the best choice for the majority of people. If you think the stock sounds great, don't assume you can get a better sound just because the op amps are replaceable. Someone here wrote that they were not able to find op amps that sounded as good as the stock, and I totally respect that. I don't know if it has to do with the fact that the card was designed for these op amps, or they just sound good in themselves, but they have a sound that is the most dynamic and "fun."
   
  However, I initially found them to be extremely bass-heavy, and wanted a more neutral sound. They can also sound a little harsh, which I think is just part of having a dynamic sound. They exhibit a strange soundstage to me, where the bass presents itself close to me, in kind of a left-right fashion, whereas the mid and upper ranges are further away, and only directly in front of me, in a kind of back-forward fashion. I prefer a more even, "in your head" type soundstage.
   
LME49720: I got these for free from TI.com using my student account. They definitely have a different sound, but I don't think it is an improvement. They emphasize the upper and mid ranges at the expense of bass. Coming from the stock, they will seem bass-deficient. They do have more detail than the stock, but the lack of bass and the added fatigue make them inferior in my opinion. They are also less dynamic and "fun."
   
AD797BR: I bought these from audjade_chn on ebay. I do not recommend them. They definitely wowed me when I first listened to them. They are hyper-detailed and extremely energetic. They also have a wide natural soundstage. The first problem is that I think they are bass-deficient. As in, zero bass. Again, coming from the stock this will be disappointing because the stock's best quality is its bass. Next, the hyper-detail brings the most fatigue of all the op amps. Finally, after a week or so of installing these I got very loud, noticeable, static-y distortion coming through the headphone amp. It was so present that I thought something was going on outside my window (and my headphones are closed). It even continued when I turned off the song. I'm not sure if I just got a bad one, or this is the "oscillation" that was referred to in this thread, but clearly something was wrong and I had to remove these. Even if I didn't have that problem, I still would prefer the sound quality of the stock over these. For me, a waste of money.
   
THS4032: I bought these from hifiic on ebay. These are the first I would consider a possible upgrade over the stock. As expressed in this thread, they are definitely the smoothest sounding. They are closer to neutral and have a great natural soundstage. However, I still would like more bass. They definitely have present bass, it might even be neutral, but again coming from the stock, they disappoint in this regard. The smoothness of sound and lack of bass "punch" make these sound a little "flat" to me, and less dynamic and fun compared to stock.
   
OPA2107, OPA2137: I got these for free from TI.com using my student account. I looked for op amps that could possibly compete with the stock in the bass department. They don't, and I found them inferior everywhere else, too. Waste of time, do not recommend.
   
LME49990: I bought these from frugalphile on ebay. These are the ones I am going to keep in the card. They possess the bass, dynamics, and "fun" of the stock, along with the smoothness of the THS4032, and added detail as well. The bass is great: present, tight, and defined. My only nitpick is that they possess similar soundstage characteristics to the stock, in that the bass feels close and side-to-side and the midrange feels center and a little further away. Since the stock have this too, I can't really consider it a flaw of the op amps. I'm really happy with these and highly recommend them. Also, I found frugalphile's workmanship of the circuits to be higher quality than the others and another benefit is he's an American seller so you don't have to wait for your op amps to arrive from China.
   
Recommended: LME49990, THS4032, or JRC2114 (stock).


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





friskyseal said:


> I'll give some brief impressions. I've wasted way too much money on op amps for this sound card. Also, I've taken the shield off the card so many times that one of the screws will no longer screw in. If you plan to try many op amps, I recommend leaving the shield off until you settle on a set, and then put it back on.
> 
> My headphone is the Sennheiser HD 380 Pro. [Clear, neutral, slightly warm, slight emphasis in the mid-bass and midrange.] It is a low-impedance phone so I am using the normal gain.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This is such a great read! thanks so very much for bringing me up to date with these info, it feels good to be back in 2013 from 2011 where I was still reading on this thread..lol. I have to say many of the points you wrote are true and the same with others I read. Thanks a lot for summarizing/typing all of that, but I've got a few more question for you and anyone else who might be able to asnwer them.
   
  1. From the infos I've gathered so far, the LME49860NA is a "cherry-picked" LME49720NA which is considered as an upgrade. It doesn't have the harshness that many find in the LME49720NA, and it's say to be a warmer sound. Since LME49860NA is missing from your summary, I'd love to know what you think about the 49860NA. It does offer in DIP8 spec unlike the single channel 49990MA that needs be soldiered on a DIP8 adapter. 
   
  Since my headphone is Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250ohm, it's already got an excellent dynamic as in slight v-shaped in the freq spectrum with small bump at high freq 6k and climbs up with rather big spike starting at 9k-11k and then slowly tailor off with another small bump at ~12-14k at the expense of slightly recessed mids overall. I'd say my hearing is considered to be close to Golden ears and I'm indeed sensitive to all the notes across the freq esp the highs. I spent hours EQ the DT 990 Pro to what I'd considered to be perfect sounding and my result was very similar to the Golden Ear spec.
   
  With all that said, I do appreciate a warmer sounding op-amps, the warmer the better with very little to no trade off of course. At least I don't want further coloration since the headphone is already "exciting" and engaging to listen. By coloration I mean certainly not emphasizing the highs, I'm definitely looking for better smoothness in treble and less harshness for comfortable longer listening sessions without sacrificing clarity, detail, image, soundstage, seperation, timbre...etc. I do want the mids to be brought slightly forward so vocals doesn't sound so distant to my ears as a result from the slightly recessed mids from the DT 990 Pro (Though, DT 990 Pro only has roughly ~50 hours burn in at this point and I've to admit it's under-amped by my current DGX soundcard on max gain exciter mode ~150ohm). In fact, I'm already noticing changes in its sound for the better. The most significant and noticeable change is that the sibilience that I originally spotted in the first few hours are almost completely gone, and the vocal is brought to be a bit forward, though it's still noticeably recessed.
   
  I do, however, want to preserve the special sound signature from Beyers DT 990 Pro that's dynamic sounding. Basically I'm just looking for whatever that helps further improve the drawbacks of the DT 990 Pro while keeping its strengths (bass/treble) and distinctive sound signature. Say if the LME49990MA is the closest choice to what I'm looking for, would you still recommand it to me vs LME49860NA ?
   
  Thanks!
   
  DT 990 Pro Freq/EQ
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6059/dt990proeq.png


----------



## Friskyseal

Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> 1. From the infos I've gathered so far, the LME49860NA is a "cherry-picked" LME49720NA which is considered as an upgrade. It doesn't have the harshness that many find in the LME49720NA, and it's say to be a warmer sound. Since LME49860NA is missing from your summary, I'd love to know what you think about the 49860NA. It does offer in DIP8 spec unlike the single channel 49990MA that needs be soldiered on a DIP8 adapter.


 
   
  I also received the 49860 from TI, but since I did not like the 49720 I didn't bother testing it out. I have the same understanding as you, that it's a "cherry-pick" of the 49720, but I hardly think I would be able to discern a difference between the two. I assume they are mostly identical. If you love the 49720 then sure, try the 49860, but if not I would move on and try something else.
   
  In fact, this is why I chose going with the AD797BR next, as I feared the 49990 would be too similar to 49720. I was wrong; the 990 is much better to my ears.
   
  THS4032 would probably be the best compliment to a V-shaped can.


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





friskyseal said:


> I also received the 49860 from TI, but since I did not like the 49720 I didn't bother testing it out. I have the same understanding as you, that it's a "cherry-pick" of the 49720, but I hardly think I would be able to discern a difference between the two. I assume they are mostly identical. If you love the 49720 then sure, try the 49860, but if not I would move on and try something else.
> 
> In fact, this is why I chose going with the AD797BR next, as I feared the 49990 would be too similar to 49720. I was wrong; the 990 is much better to my ears.
> 
> THS4032 would probably be the best compliment to a V-shaped can.


 

 After some more cross reference searching on THS4032 and LME49990MA in the past few days, I've pretty much narrowed down to these two based on their positives to negatives feed backs in general. LME4562/720/860/797 are not an option for me.
   
  So between LME49990 and THS4032, which one is less bright and smoother/warmer sounding without loss in clarity, detail, separation, sound stage, image, and better focus for vocal?
   
  TIA


----------



## arijspieter

Hi!
  Im a belgian student and for me most things here a pretty new. Last year i earned some money with a student job and i decided to spend everything together with the money i saved.
  I bought a dt770 pro 250 ohm headphone cause i heard so much good things about them it seemed like a great deal to me (€140). I also wanted something to power them so i bought an essence stx cause i see people here tell that they're really good for the money and that they have a good dac and decent opamps inside.
   
  About the beyers: I absolutelly love them! They are so fantastic imo!!
  About the stx: I think it's a good thing but I don't really understand the high price. My beyers were cheaper and they are so amazing! Of course i do hear the difference between the beyers being powered by my portable creative and my stx but i don't think the difference justifies the big price of the stx. The stx does produce a much a better sound but it's still kinda expensive for me.
   
  Now, do you guys think it would be a good idea for me to mod my stx? or is that just plain stupid for a newb who thinks a decent dac/opamp is not worth the money?


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





arijspieter said:


> Hi!
> Im a belgian student and for me most things here a pretty new. Last year i earned some money with a student job and i decided to spend everything together with the money i saved.
> I bought a dt770 pro 250 ohm headphone cause i heard so much good things about them it seemed like a great deal to me (€140). I also wanted something to power them so i bought an essence stx cause i see people here tell that they're really good for the money and that they have a good dac and decent opamps inside.
> 
> ...


 
   

 The Xonar STX is worth every dollar ~$180 in the long run, so in the end I've decided to place my order on it instead of 1. my existing DGX soundcard + external amp or 2. External DAC+AMP All-in-one unit or 3. Upgrade my existing sound card with better Audio chip and DAC built in + external amp. The Xonar STX option is far better than the above 3 scenarios I mentioned in terms of performance to price ratio and upgradability.
   
  Xonar STX is known to have a high end DAC that's comparable to some ~$1,000 DAC external units as most people say, and the built in headphone amp is pretty decent and capable to drive higher impedance headphones. Take $180 and divide the price by 2 and that's like $90 each for DAC and Amp for desktop/stationary use. The value is much better than any of the 3 scenarios I came up with above. Plus, you could always upgrade the 3 upgradable op-amps on the card anytime down the road to keep you happy and satisfied from the itch again.


----------



## Simcon

tiramisu said:


> The Xonar STX is worth every dollar ~$180 in the long run, so in the end I've decided to place my order on it instead of 1. my existing DGX soundcard + external amp or 2. External DAC+AMP All-in-one unit or 3. Upgrade my existing sound card with better Audio chip and DAC built in + external amp. The Xonar STX option is far better than the above 3 scenarios I mentioned in terms of performance to price ratio and upgradability.
> 
> Xonar STX is known to have a high end DAC that's comparable to some ~$1,000 DAC external units as most people say, and the built in headphone amp is pretty decent and capable to drive higher impedance headphones. Take $180 and divide the price by 2 and that's like $90 each for DAC and Amp for desktop/stationary use. The value is much better than any of the 3 scenarios I came up with above. Plus, you could always upgrade the 3 upgradable op-amps on the card anytime down the road to keep you happy and satisfied from the itch again.




I'd say that a O2+ODAC is a good alternative, but when comparing 180 dollar to 280 dollar, I'm not sure about that the value for money would be better in that combo. However the amplifier in the STX is somewhat unsuitable for easy-to-drive headphones, so it probably comes down to a question of what headphones you're going to be using. Prices in different countries can affect which alternative that would be the best suitable for your needs and use. With all that said, you're probably going to be happy. But the fact that you can change OP-amps pretty much seems more to be side-grades, rather than upgrades from everything that has been written about them in this thread.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Concerning the Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2's associated circuitry as installed, it appears that Audinst® may have done better on the HUD-MX2 USB 2.0 external DAC than Asus® did on the XONAR® Essence™ One™ external DAC and Essence™ ST and STX audio cards, as Audinst® achieved a 2Ω Headphone-Output source impedance (vs. 10.7Ω on the XONAR® Essence™) (see "Audinst HUD-mx2" in Head Gear -> Headphone Amplifiers -> Amp/DACs).  How did Audinst® achieve this low impedance; and can the necessary output fixes be retrofitted to the ST and/or STX?
  
 (I've decided to upgrade my STX' op amps to dual National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME-49990MA's on a custom adapter PCB at the line-level buffer position due to the 600Ω load rating; and similarly-mounted Texas Instruments® 100 MHz op amps for the I-V, either dual THS4031's or a single THS4032 per channel.)


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> How did Audinst® achieve this low impedance; and can the necessary output fixes be retrofitted to the ST and/or STX?


 
   
  It can be achieved with an inductor connected in parallel to the output resistor, so the output impedance is low at audio frequencies, but is high at the RF range where the protection against capacitve loads is needed. This is common practice in speaker amplifiers.
  However, I did not find the output impedance in the specifications of the HUD-MX2.


----------



## verde57

Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> Xonar STX is known to have a high end DAC that's comparable to some ~$1,000 DAC external units as most people say,


 
  Let's not forget the easy mod to the oscillator TCXO, that can be done to the ST and STX. The result of that mod are spectacular!


----------



## DICOM

I apologize if these questions have been asked/answered already, and would certainly appreciate being told where to go ... URL-wise.
   
  I have the STX and as of late it has been outputting a sound signature that is best described as sounding like a cross between an echo chamber and a fishbowl. I have RCAs running directly from the sound card to a pair of AudioEngine 2s. I'm using Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate, and my player is either JRMC or foobar2000. I have the output set to WASAPI event-style and have tried a variety of different sample and bit-rates, all without success. The driver and software is current.
   
  Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Jerppane

So I'm running the STX + HD650 combo.
   
  I was planning to upgrade the op-amps on my stx, but with no experiment with them i tought i'd ask some advice here.
  At the moment I'm running with the stock op-amps. I like the sound of the stocks quite a bit and i wouldn't like to change the sound signature that much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  So which op-amp would work the best with the HD650's, improve the overall sound quality and offcourse give me a more enjoyable experience?


----------



## L36i

I'm running 2 LME49860NA. I upgraded back when i had my HD555s. The difference was huge vs stock OPs, the sound stage opened up and bass became more detailed and quicker. Treble got much cleaner at higher volume.

 Mind you i had that experience with 555s, with 650s you might get even bigger difference. Although i have the ST, but they're nearly identical...


----------



## Spastic

I currently use my A700X's with my STX
   
  Previously when using the onboard sound on my motherboard, there was quite a bit of distortion and the instruments in music sounded slightly muffled and cloudy, treble was not as clear as I would have liked it to be and the sound stage was clearly lacking.
   
  However when I plugged my headphones into the STX, treble improved in clarity, sound stage reached auditorium level and distortion was non existent.


----------



## repman244

Quote: 





jerppane said:


> So I'm running the STX + HD650 combo.
> 
> I was planning to upgrade the op-amps on my stx, but with no experiment with them i tought i'd ask some advice here.
> At the moment I'm running with the stock op-amps. I like the sound of the stocks quite a bit and i wouldn't like to change the sound signature that much
> ...


 
  I would suggest LME49990 or THS4032. Since you're using the built in amp, you don't need to change the buffer.


----------



## Tiramisu

I was reading a thread about upgrading op amps on the Xonar STX over at DIYaudio, and a response to some of possible issues have raised some concerns:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *counter culture*
> 
> The soundcard is provided with the facility for changing the opamps because people like to change the opamps, it costs very little to socket them, and it probably swings a sale or two. The fact that people change them is indicative of the fact that people can't resist changing them, not that it results in any improvement or that there is any rational motivation whatsoever. People say that they can hear an improvement, but they hear these improvements under conditions which are _*known*_ to result in unreliable observations. This doesn't stop them making the claims, or changing the opamps. That's people for you, or as I b'lieve they say in Yorkshire, 'There's nowt so queer as folk'.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was seriously about to order 3 pairs of LME49990 from a reputable source on Ebay but I'm being held back by some of the concerns I mentioned earlier. I've also asked about it in a new thread but no response yet to be made.
   
  Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm looking for a stable op amp upgrade option for my STX sound card, and I'm eager to know if these LME49990 op amps are perfectly stable match with the Xonar STX for long term use. From sources I've gathered that says fast op amps like these may not work well with certain circuit boards, and I'm not familiar with electrical engineering background to find out the answer to my concern. Will someone with more knowledge or experience to have a say about this setup, please?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## gcwebbyuk

Hi All, sorry if this has been covered somewhere earlier in this thread, but it is one loooong thread to hunt through!
   
  I currently have an STX with 3 x LME49860NA op-amps.  I am really happy with the sound both through my AudioEngine A2s and Grado SR80is.
   
  I am considering buying a DAC/Headphone amp to use with my laptop when sitting in the living room, and have been looking at the Meridian Explorer or the Audioquest DragonFly.  My worry is that I will buy one, and find it better than my STX, so end up wanting 2.
   
  How would a DAC/amp of around £250 compare to the STX?
   
  p.s. - I did ask this in a different section of Head-Fi, but didn't really get a response, and thought here might be a better place to ask...


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





l36i said:


> I'm running 2 LME49860NA. I upgraded back when i had my HD555s. The difference was huge vs stock OPs, the sound stage opened up and bass became more detailed and quicker. Treble got much cleaner at higher volume.
> 
> Mind you i had that experience with 555s, with 650s you might get even bigger difference. Although i have the ST, but they're nearly identical...


 

 Ok, so I figured I got nothing to lose by ordering 3 free samples of LME49860NA/NOPB from TI. Order was processed and sent on the same day, and next day delivery ETA from MN, US to BC, Canada, I'm impressed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just hope I don't get hit by customs, etc, but even then it's still fair bit cheaper than ordering them from a distributor. Either way, I think this is a step in the right direction. It's definitely an upgrade from stock op amps.


----------



## Tiramisu

Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> Ok, so I figured I got nothing to lose by ordering 3 free samples of LME49860NA/NOPB from TI. Order was processed and sent on the same day, and next day delivery ETA from MN, US to BC, Canada, I'm impressed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
**Edit*: Impression of 49860 after ~10 hours burn in. (Burn-in Wavs + lossless recordings)
**Edit#2: Day 2 (~24 hrs)*
**Edit#3: Day 3 (New Impression, new scores update, added Soundstage/Image new category to the review)*
   
   
It's definitely lacking bass, like everyone else have noticed. It's *NOT* an upgrade
*Edit#2: *_(It's a sidegrade)__ despite its spec on paper compares to stock JRC 2114Ds._
*Edit#3:* _(It's considerably an upgrade)_ from the stock op amps JRC 2114D in (I/V). 
*I feel like I owe myself an apology for my past clouded judgement, due to all the colorations from the stock JRC 2114Ds; these are not superior in SQ*. The more time I spent listening to the 49860, the more I understand its beautiful SS. It's closer to a linear response that's true to the original recordings, from low 20Hz to high 20K (monitored from digital analyzer processor in JRiver MC). I feel that the 49860 is easier and soothing to listen to in one sitting (5+ hrs), which it wasn't possible for me with the stock op amps (2 hrs max.) before taking a break. 
   
   
*Background info about my setup:*
  I'm pairing with Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro (250ohm) ~180+ hours burned in. Foobar2000 1.2.4 & JRiver Media Center 18 (Newest 18.0.158 patch) -> ASIO (bit-perfect) x64 -> Internal volume control at -25.00db. No EQ or effects. ASIO control panel set to 24bit/10ms. Headphone amp setting at _"Extra High Gain"_ and everything tested in lossless FLAC/ALAC/APE/WAV codecs.
   
   
  First of all, the perceivable difference in SQ/SS from stock to 49860 is _very noticeable _and in a good way for 49860. I think I've a pretty critical set of ears. My first impression when hearing the 49860 was that it sounded quite thin and transparent compares to stock.
*Edit#2*: _(It's colorless/natural__/flat sound signature - to me it's lacking personality and emotional responses, which makes me feel detached from the music that requires those essences to really move me.)_ It's missing that kind of full and lively sound as if you're listening at a live studio or in a reference room. 49860 didn't give me that kind of an impression, and it makes many of my favorite songs sound kind of lifeless, boring, less engaging, and believable. 
   
   
*Clarity/Detail/Resolution/Positioning&Separations*:
It's close to the stock but _not quite_. Both have much room for improvements, but I feel 49860 isn't as revealing as stock.
   
*Edit#3: *49860 turns out to be one solid step above stock JRC 2114D in this whole category.
*Edit#3*: 49860 shows a _natural and accurate _dynamic response from the original recordings, without being overly boomy and harsh sounding like the stock. It presents a clean and fast sound. I also noticed that I could hear more micro details from recordings, and I suppose this is partially due to better controlled and defined bass response.
*Stock = 7.5/10 (B) and the 49860 = 7.0/10(B-) 7.8/10 (B+)*.
   
   
*Soundstage/Image: *
  The DT 990 Pro is well known for its soundstage reproduction, and the 49860 has brought my listening experience with it to a new level. There is more openness in the sound and more _*depth*_ (3D) to the image. The sound is also more airy, and the soundstage is slightly larger all around (similar to a studio/reference room setting).
*Stock = 7.5/10 (B), 49860 = 8.0/10 (A-).*
   
   
*Treble:*
There are two sides to this. I can put it in a good way or in a bad way.
  I'd say pairing 49860 with a particular headphones like the DT 990 Pro has an interesting result. It's a dynamic sounding headphone with slight emphasis in bass and treble frequencies. High frequencies is definitely its strong suit, and overall it has an excellent frequency response according to golden ears' target. I also noticed that the treble is slightly rolled off, and as a result it makes DT 990 Pro sounds _darker_  I can say the sound is_ smoother _with 49860_. _For brighter headphones like DT 990 Pro/880/Q/K701/2, etc (peak from roughly 6~14K), this might seems like  is a good match. but it's at the cost of _slight downgrade in clarity and detail_. 49860 is the better choice for long listening session (2hrs+) with slightly less ear fatigue.
   
*Edit#3:* The high frequencies aren't harsh sounding as to the stock, and I don't have to use EQ to tame those treble spikes. Highs appears to be much smoother while still manage to show exceptional clarity and detail. 
*Stock = 7.0 (B-), 49860 = 6.8/10 (C+/B-) 8.0/10 (A-). *
   
   
*Bass: *
The bass hits slightly softer and has _lost some of depth, weight, image, extension, and impact;_ these changes make listening experience less believable and engaging.
The most obvious sign is that the lack of overall bass signatures make the tonality in music sound thin and a bit dull. Since bass is such an important element in almost all contemporary song recordings today, I can't say I get a very satisfying listening experience from songs I'm familiar with. There were particular moments in songs that I expected it to deliver the climaxes in certain notes, but it isn't quite there. I would be over exaggerating if I say the bass is completely in absence, but it's not. The problem I find is that it makes some songs *forgettable*. 
*Edit#2: *_(The bass is present but its overall presentation is softer; It's a matter of personal taste. If you favour a flat bass reponse with less bass extension, this may be your cup of tea.) _
*Edit#2*:_ (I can feel it's smoother and just lightly well blend in with all other frequencies; I don't feel the bass is boomy from long listening session.) _
   
*Edit#3: *(49860) - The bass is actually very well _controlled_ and with better definition; it's tight and punchy, and there is an accurate dynamic to the bass response. The bass extension can go very deep and as low as the notes from the original recording without being overly boomy, and I'm monitoring this from my _DT 990 Pro_ (Excellent sub bass response). There is just right amount of bass quantity, and an overall improvement in the bass _quality_. It doesn't present any coloration, so the overall SQ is much cleaner and more transparent. I also *love* the bass being more _airy_ to my ears (30Hz~80Hz). It's definitely a whole new experience from stock, and I actually really like these changes for the better. *I'm still contemplating on buying LME49990, though. It's the high cost that's really holding me back, but I'm sure they're worth the price.
*Stock = 8.0 (A-) 7.5 (B), 49860 = 6.7 (C+) 7.0 (B-) 8.0 (A-)*
   
   
*Mid: *
I do not notice a significant difference in this category from stock. It's roughly the same or at least not perceivable by my ears. It is what it is from the DT 990 Pro and I don't hear noticeable changes for the worse or better. It's clear but not spectacular. It doesn't help with the slight recessed mid of the DT 990 Pro, but neither did the stock. Once again, It's not possible to make a A/B comparison, so I can only draw my conclusion based on my very recent memory just hours prior to the installation of 49860. Basically, it's about the same. However, I do notice the vocal is a bit smoother, thus less ear fatigue. For me, the vocal sounds less sensational. The result in the mid isn't as drastic as the treble. Overall, I would rate both about the same.
   
*Edit#3: *
  Because of those positive changes in treble and bass,_ *this has made a noticeable effect to how the mid is presented*_. The mid is brought slightly forward from my DT 990 Pro. Vocal presentation is a step above JRCs. I feel that the vocal sound a bit dark. It's perhaps a bit more smoother, and the sibilience in female vocal is much less pronounced which is a tremendous step forward in perceived SQ. The vocal is very clear and transparent. I'm able to spot more micro details in the vocal than before, so these changes made me really like the 49860. Overall, it's an improvement over JRCs. I'm not saying everything is spot on and perfect. The vocal still sounds a bit laid back in certain songs from my DT 990 Pro (depending on the music type and your personal preference in the positioning of the vocal).
*Stock = 7.0(B-), 49860 = 6.8(C+/B-). 7.5(B)*
   
   
*Final thoughts:*
It's lacking that kind of full and warm sound which I prefer. _Keep in mind that all scores and impressions are directly related to the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro used in this review_. I'm surprised by the amount of changes that op amps can actually do to alter my perceived sonic experience, so it's not entirely psychological after all. If I was asked to give an analogy about my listening experience of LME49860, I'd say it's like drinking a glass of water. It's oderless and its taste doesn't linger. I wouldn't recommend 49860 for less dynamic sounding headphones. The LME49860 is a step in the right direction from stock. I enjoy the new SS and the overall improvement in SQ with great transparency. It's easy to listen to and I no longer feel ear fatigue even after prolonged listening for several hours. I like the fact that I can enjoy listening all day with my comfy DT 990 Pro


----------



## cheuh

I am interested in pairing the Sennheiser HD600 with the Asus Xonar STX. From my understanding, the STX  would be able to drive them, but not to their full potential. What benefits would I hear (if any at all) if I paired it with an external AMP around the same price range such as the Schiit Magni or Fiio E09K?


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> Ok, so I figured I got nothing to lose by ordering 3 free samples of LME49860NA/NOPB from TI. Order was processed and sent on the same day, and next day delivery ETA from MN, US to BC, Canada, I'm impressed!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congratulations on proofing the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49860NA's at the I-V. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll be checking eBay® for appropriate adapter PCB's to fully tune the same vendor's LME49990MA (which appears to be a direct descendant of the LM318AN high-performance op amp from the equivalent schematic) as a package with surface-mounted compensation filters for the line-level buffer - I have both a Hewlett-Packard® HP2009m display with internal speakers and a Pyle® PCA2 offboard 40Wx2 amplifier for bookshelf speakers that my STX can drive via the dual-RCA output jacks.
   
  Anyone done an A/B test of dual Texas Instruments® THS4031's vs. single Texas Instruments® THS4032 for any one of the three dual-op-amp positions on an Essence™?


----------



## Tiramisu

bcschmerker4 said:


> Congratulations on proofing the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49860NA's at the I-V.  I'll be checking eBay® for appropriate adapter PCB's to fully tune the same vendor's LME49990MA (which appears to be a direct descendant of the LM318AN high-performance op amp from the equivalent schematic) as a package with surface-mounted compensation filters for the line-level buffer - I have both a Hewlett-Packard® HP2009m display with internal speakers and a Pyle® PCA2 offboard 40Wx2 amplifier for bookshelf speakers that my STX can drive via the dual-RCA output jacks.
> 
> Anyone done an A/B test of dual Texas Instruments® THS4031's vs. single Texas Instruments® THS4032 for any one of the three dual-op-amp positions on an Essence™?




You can check out Frisky's impression on THS4032 vs many other op amps including the 49990 on the previous page. He did a pretty nice write up. 
I was on the same boat deciding on either THS4032/LME49990 and decided to go for the LME49990. Both are highly recommended but 49990 is slightly more popular. I figured I wouldn't go wrong with either one as an upgrade but my deciding factor was based on the one that offers better workmanship=49990. THS4032 costs a little cheaper but the seller's origin is from China.... 

49990 is said to offer slightly better low end response than ths4032 but both are known for their superior transparency and neutral sound signature = truely audiophile grade. Also, it depends on what headphone you'll be pairing with. Bass shy headphone will probably want the LME49990 and really bright headphones will probably go well with ths4032 for its smoothness. Well, both shares many similar good qualities.


----------



## mowglycdb

Quote: 





tiramisu said:


> The Xonar STX is worth every dollar ~$180 in the long run, so in the end I've decided to place my order on it instead of 1. my existing DGX soundcard + external amp or 2. External DAC+AMP All-in-one unit or 3. Upgrade my existing sound card with better Audio chip and DAC built in + external amp. The Xonar STX option is far better than the above 3 scenarios I mentioned in terms of performance to price ratio and upgradability.
> 
> Xonar STX is known to have a high end DAC that's comparable to some ~$1,000 DAC external units as most people say, and the built in headphone amp is pretty decent and capable to drive higher impedance headphones. Take $180 and divide the price by 2 and that's like $90 each for DAC and Amp for desktop/stationary use. The value is much better than any of the 3 scenarios I came up with above. Plus, you could always upgrade the 3 upgradable op-amps on the card anytime down the road to keep you happy and satisfied from the itch again.


 
   
   
  I'd  have to differ Tiramisu I own the Xonar Essence ST with high grade op amps  LME4910HA and LME4920HA in both IV, and I have the Audio-GD NFB 1.32 650 USD, the diference is very easy to notice on detail and there's much less congestion on the Audio-GD, also more soundstage and depth. The ST is still very good, but  a dedicated DAC is certainly better. ( Audeze LCD 2.2  and Audio-Technica AD900 for testing ).


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mowglycdb said:


> I'd  have to differ Tiramisu I own the Xonar Essence ST with high grade op amps  LME4910HA and LME4920HA in both IV, and I have the Audio-GD NFB 1.32 650 USD, the diference is very easy to notice on detail and there's much less congestion on the Audio-GD, also more soundstage and depth. The ST is still very good, but  a dedicated DAC is certainly better. ( Audeze LCD 2.2  and Audio-Technica AD900 for testing ).


 
   
   
  That is true. I also always believed the ST is very good, and on first hand, when compared briefly to my Musical Fidelity M1DAC, I thought it was as good, didn't really feel the M1 is worth 4 times as much. I usually use the M1 in my speaker setup, while the ST is only for my PC, which is the only place where I actually use headphones. However, every time I do a more deep and detailed comparison between the two, its clear why the M1 is more expensive. It simply sounds better. As time goes by, I like the ST less. Its good technically, its got the clarity and detail, but its just...wrong somehow. It doesn't make the music sound enjoyable, its too rough in the high end, soundstage is not all that big, bass is quite lacking and overall as you said the sound is somewhat congested. And thats not immediately noticeable. I used to compare DAC's by taking a 20 sec segment of music, such as a acoustic guitar, or some vocal, and then I'd loop it and compare on my amps with 2 inputs, and I'd always walk away feeling they sound identical. Well, thats because my methodology of testing was totally wrong. What I should have done is picked up the most busy, congested, messy track of some classical or metal, or rock music, something with a lot of things going on...THAT'S where the difference between a cheap and expensive DAC comes out.  It's easy to reproduce a flat frequency response and be technically good, which will make the sound appear good, but there are things that are harder to measure, or not possible at all to measure, and aren't included on the list of features on the back of the box.  It's not all about technical measurement either. 
  For example,  ST's DAC measures better than  M1DAC on all aspects, looking at the paper data, you'd think the ST is superior. Yet, listening to both, there's no doubt which one is better.  Same with the headphone amp section. It totally outclasses most standalone amps in terms of measurements, yet, even a cheap Musical Fidelity V-CAN sounds worlds better, so much more spacious, smooth, effortless with more air in the sound, separating everything apart while making it sound more musical at the same time.
   
  Oh, and just to add, my findings are with LM49860 or LM49820 in the buffer section, and 2x dual AD797BRZ or 2x LM49820 in the I/V.   
   
  Not saying ST / STX is bad, its still most probably the best DAC/amp combo you can get 200 dollars, especially considering its versatility in terms of various dolby features for movies and games that really make a huge difference,  but it's wrong to say it's a giant killer or that it can compete with more expensive gear. I used to say it as well, but I eat my own words now.


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

Quick question about using the LME49990s. Would I have to get the Dual SOIC x 2 or would a single chip per DIP8 package suffice?


----------



## SunshineReggae

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> That is true. I also always believed the ST is very good, and on first hand, when compared briefly to my Musical Fidelity M1DAC, I thought it was as good, didn't really feel the M1 is worth 4 times as much. I usually use the M1 in my speaker setup, while the ST is only for my PC, which is the only place where I actually use headphones. However, every time I do a more deep and detailed comparison between the two, its clear why the M1 is more expensive. It simply sounds better. As time goes by, I like the ST less. Its good technically, its got the clarity and detail, but its just...wrong somehow. It doesn't make the music sound enjoyable, its too rough in the high end, soundstage is not all that big, bass is quite lacking and overall as you said the sound is somewhat congested. And thats not immediately noticeable. I used to compare DAC's by taking a 20 sec segment of music, such as a acoustic guitar, or some vocal, and then I'd loop it and compare on my amps with 2 inputs, and I'd always walk away feeling they sound identical. Well, thats because my methodology of testing was totally wrong. What I should have done is picked up the most busy, congested, messy track of some classical or metal, or rock music, something with a lot of things going on...THAT'S where the difference between a cheap and expensive DAC comes out.  It's easy to reproduce a flat frequency response and be technically good, which will make the sound appear good, but there are things that are harder to measure, or not possible at all to measure, and aren't included on the list of features on the back of the box.  It's not all about technical measurement either.
> For example,  ST's DAC measures better than  M1DAC on all aspects, looking at the paper data, you'd think the ST is superior. Yet, listening to both, there's no doubt which one is better.  Same with the headphone amp section. It totally outclasses most standalone amps in terms of measurements, yet, even a cheap Musical Fidelity V-CAN sounds worlds better, so much more spacious, smooth, effortless with more air in the sound, separating everything apart while making it sound more musical at the same time.
> 
> Oh, and just to add, my findings are with LM49860 or LM49820 in the buffer section, and 2x dual AD797BRZ or 2x LM49820 in the I/V.
> ...


 
   
  Eh no that's all totally wrong. If you really care about doing testing right, you ABX it, volume match it, and then show the results. All other forms of testing are pretty much useless and prone to bias.
   
  To say that the Essence's measurements are outstanding (which they arguably are, or at the very least 'good'), yet something is still 'off', smacks of subjectivity in and of itself. There is no way that a device that measures worse than (or even similar to) the Essence is in any way able to offer 'a bigger soundstage', 'more spaciousness', or sound 'less congested', or any of the sort. Those are technical impossiblities.
  The reasons for you feeling the way you do about the Essence are yours, but as it stands it obviously does not make any sense. The fact that you state that at first you felt it sounded good but then decided that your testing method was flawed, only to then move on to another flawed testing method and then decide that the Essence actually isn't good after all, speaks for itself.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





sunshinereggae said:


> Eh no that's all totally wrong. If you really care about doing testing right, you ABX it, volume match it, and then show the results. All other forms of testing are pretty much useless and prone to bias.
> 
> To say that the Essence's measurements are outstanding (which they arguably are, or at the very least 'good'), yet something is still 'off', smacks of subjectivity in and of itself. There is no way that a device that measures worse than (or even similar to) the Essence is in any way able to offer 'a bigger soundstage', 'more spaciousness', or sound 'less congested', or any of the sort. Those are technical impossiblities.
> The reasons for you feeling the way you do about the Essence are yours, but as it stands it obviously does not make any sense. The fact that you state that at first you felt it sounded good but then decided that your testing method was flawed, only to then move on to another flawed testing method and then decide that the Essence actually isn't good after all, speaks for itself.


 
   
  By the way this is not the sound science forum & there are others here that disagree with you & it does not mean we are all wrong. You are entitled to your own opinion & you are free to share it but I do take exception to those who try to say that everyone else is wrong. Slight hint, We are not all wrong. Blind testing has it's place & it is true that there are many things that don't make any difference & guess what? There are many things I've done that hasn't made any difference & some things that have made the wrong difference where I had to go back & try again & some things that have led me in the right direction but encouraged to take it further. I don't need blind ABX testing to figure this stuff out. I need long term testing using many recordings to come to the best sound including some which I know the particular instrument in question as I have heard it live in the exact acoustics it was recorded in & know how it sounds.
   
  The stuff I have done does not significantly change the specs of the soundcard or main speakers, yet the sound is so much more listenable as well as more dynamic sounding as it truly captures the raw nature of some instruments that are intended to sound raw while bringing the sweetness out of others.Almost everyone that has heard my system has been extremely impressed in how it sounds saying it's like being in the studio with the musicians. Believe me when I tell you it didn't start out that way. Read some reviews on the speakers in my signature & they will tell you they are not that great to start with. I was able to correct all the problems except bass extension of the main speakers but that was fixed with my modified subwoofer which is flat down to 20Hz & usable to 16Hz.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





stanley pain 00 said:


> Quick question about using the LME49990s. Would I have to get the Dual SOIC x 2 or would a single chip per DIP8 package suffice?


 

 The dual-SOIC adapter plug is mandatory for employment of the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA, which is a single high-performance op amp with input and output compensation provisions in a 2x4-pin surface-mount package, in the XONAR® Essence™ and/or Xense®; same applies to the Texas Instruments® THS4031 and THS4032.  The XONAR® Essence™ ST and STX use JEDEC 8-pin dual-inline-package sockets for dual operational amplifiers in the left/mono I-V, right I-V, and stereo line level buffer.  The XONAR® Xense® also uses JEDEC 8-pin dual-inline-package sockets for dual operational amplifiers in the left/mono I-V and right I-V.


----------



## eggyhustles

would buying an amp be an improving over the amp on the card?
   
  was thinking of purchasing a fiio e9


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> The dual-SOIC adapter plug is mandatory for employment of the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA, which is a single high-performance op amp with input and output compensation provisions in a 2x4-pin surface-mount package, in the XONAR® Essence™ and/or Xense®; same applies to the Texas Instruments® THS4031 and THS4032.  The XONAR® Essence™ ST and STX use JEDEC 8-pin dual-inline-package sockets for dual operational amplifiers in the left/mono I-V, right I-V, and stereo line level buffer.  The XONAR® Xense® also uses JEDEC 8-pin dual-inline-package sockets for dual operational amplifiers in the left/mono I-V and right I-V.


 
   
  Thanks for the quick response. Can't wait to get these. I think they'll sound great with my Denon 5Ks and 600s.
   
   
  One other question. I can just replace the IVs and leave the buffer OPAMP as stock or would it be beneficial to also replace the buffer?


----------



## SunshineReggae

Quote: 





eggyhustles said:


> would buying an amp be an improving over the amp on the card?
> 
> was thinking of purchasing a fiio e9


 

 Not in terms of sound quality. The E9 is basically identical to the amp on the Xonar. I actually own both and they sound quite the same.


----------



## howzz1854

so upon puchasing a STX, i became a true believer on the quality and performance of this wonderful soundcard. i posted a wonderful and helpful review on amazon for others to see hoping that it'll spread the word. i have a HD598 and AD700 and it really brought out the best of headphone listening. and what do you know, some duche bag who's never listened to the card deducted a point from my review telling me that he has a hard time believing that a soundcard can be audiophile. what a ****** bag, obviously never even tried out the product, and just stereo type all soundcards as bad, not only that, deducts a point from a review having never experienced it. 
   
  http://www.amazon.com/review/R5ZUHS4PKFB6B/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B001OV789U&cdForum=Fx2A03G9IMRYFJG&cdPage=1&cdThread=Tx1B15N2GVT2BR3&newContentID=MxKWOM00G7L9P8&store=electronics#MxKWOM00G7L9P8


----------



## SunshineReggae

"It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





sunshinereggae said:


> "It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile"


 
  that's awesome... who's that from  i might use it just for the day


----------



## SunshineReggae

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> that's awesome... who's that from  i might use it just for the day


 
   
  englishman in new york by sting


----------



## Magiv9

howzz1854 said:


> so upon puchasing a STX, i became a true believer on the quality and performance of this wonderful soundcard. i posted a wonderful and helpful review on amazon for others to see hoping that it'll spread the word. i have a HD598 and AD700 and it really brought out the best of headphone listening. and what do you know, some duche bag who's never listened to the card deducted a point from my review telling me that he has a hard time believing that a soundcard can be audiophile. what a ****** bag, obviously never even tried out the product, and just stereo type all soundcards as bad, not only that, deducts a point from a review having never experienced it.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R5ZUHS4PKFB6B/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B001OV789U&cdForum=Fx2A03G9IMRYFJG&cdPage=1&cdThread=Tx1B15N2GVT2BR3&newContentID=MxKWOM00G7L9P8&store=electronics#MxKWOM00G7L9P8



LOL That's funny. 
I've been using the hd598 and stx for the past year and a half, great pair and synergy but it finally snapped due to its wood construction. 
I also agree that the stx arnt audiophile material though since I took a step into it about a month ago. 

The hd598 sounded the same or subtle the between a $1000 amp and the stx but the T1 sounds exceptional on the $1000 amp and different from the stx. 
The asus dolby headphones and eq sounds good on the hd598 but ridiculously bad on the T1 lol. 

So I agree with both statements, the stx is a great card but can't be distinguished with entry level headphones.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> so upon puchasing a STX, i became a true believer on the quality and performance of this wonderful soundcard. i posted a wonderful and helpful review on amazon for others to see hoping that it'll spread the word. i have a HD598 and AD700 and it really brought out the best of headphone listening. and what do you know, some duche bag who's never listened to the card deducted a point from my review telling me that he has a hard time believing that a soundcard can be audiophile. what a ****** bag, obviously never even tried out the product, and just stereo type all soundcards as bad, not only that, deducts a point from a review having never experienced it.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R5ZUHS4PKFB6B/ref=cm_cr_rev_detup_redir?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B001OV789U&cdForum=Fx2A03G9IMRYFJG&cdPage=1&cdThread=Tx1B15N2GVT2BR3&newContentID=MxKWOM00G7L9P8&store=electronics#MxKWOM00G7L9P8


 
   
  Hah, I like how he says Denon and Onkyo receivers have better SQ. Sorry dude, definitely not the case. Those are still pretty far behind. 
   
  Anyway, I gave a thumbs up to the review.


----------



## CommanerKeen

I've had my Essence STX for a while but never bothered with opamps but I've read they're a cheap way to upgrade/get better sound out of it.
  Currently have a pair of HD555 and a Denon receiver with Fluance speakers\subwoofer but I'm going to upgrade soon,maybe HD650 or DT880's.
  Any inputs on this?
  Thanks.


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

Quote: 





stanley pain 00 said:


> One other question. I can just replace the IVs and leave the buffer OPAMP as stock or would it be beneficial to also replace the buffer?


 
   
   
  Quoting to see if anyone could answer that question for me. From what I've read it's probably OK to leave the buffer as stock but I just want to tripple check. Thanks.


----------



## germanium

I've had this card , while very good & is bordering on high end it's not quite there stock. This card has tremendous potential though to be an absolute giant killer where you have difficulty beating it at 10x the cost with very little work. Same goes for the X-Fi Titanium HD as it uses very similar hardware. A little more difficult with the Titanium HD though.


----------



## xeizo

I just put in 3 brand new LM4562NA/NOPB, they had a totally different partnumber printed on the capsule than the single original LM4562NA in Essence ST. While same model it's obiously a different revision. Much later of course, as this was newly manufactured chips.
   
  I choose LM4562 in all places, because it seemed the easiest way to get a neutral sound that is just cleaner than default, no big signature change. According to the long threads here and at similar sites.
   
  As of yet I can't tell if it's really any cleaner but the new OP:s works just fine and there's definetely more depth and 3D to the soundstage in Stereo, which is probably because it IS cleaner ie easier for the ears to detect slight variations that cue direction.
   
  Also, it seems ambient effects and room echo comes through better now, default sound was slightly dry. Now it is more wet so to say, as in liquid. This depth/3D-effect is a rather pronounced effect compared to default, not hard at all to detect.
   
  But, it's way to early to tell if I will prefer the overall sound change. The sound is neutral though, as I wished, and the imaging is very stable as in pinpointing sounds and them staying in place even though so much depth to the sound.  I'm still happy


----------



## powerincarnate

I have a question, I'm not an audiophile but I do like good audio.
   
  What do you mean by putting an opamp in the buffer position, and the I/V.  My guess from reading here, the buffer position is where the original lm4562 is and is for the analog right and left RCA out, and the I/V is the paired opamp that goes to the headphones.  So then, Why would changing that third opamp do anything for the paired opamp with regards to sound when using it with a headphone.  
   
  My next question is related to the first.  I've read people mixing and matching opamps.  saying things i'll use one opamp and pair it with another so that I don't lose detail or soundstage or whatever.  Is this mismatching the paired headphone opamps or the third opamps. 
   
  My 3rd question is, is it me or does the lme49990 x3 seem to give me more of a muffled sound, though it is warmer than 3X lm4562, the lm4562 seem to give me a cleaner sound, especially with string instruments, and for sure with the mids and treble.  
   
  I hear that lm4562 is same as lme49720 and that is same as lme49860 except the ladder was tested to accept higher voltages.  IF they are the same, why have three different part numbers.  I remember it being discussed months ago, but I'm not sure what the conclusion were.  I also have read people felt the lme49860 is warmer, how is that possible??  I also heard Weired (is that his name) said the 49720 and 49860 was flawed, flawed as in what?? not enough base, or for some other reason.  
   
  One last thing, does the Xense sound that much different than the STX?? I do have the STX, but I was wondering if the difference was minimal, the reason I asked is because when I do play music through my receiver, I always felt the DAC of the soundcard and use with analog wires to a receiver sounded better than sending the audio to the receiver via HDMI (using Radeon 7970) and letting the receiver's DAC handle the sound.  The Xense would give me the option of the 7.1 analog and STX wouldn't.  
   
  Finally, has anyone tried that new Soundblaster ZXR from Creative??  My last creative sound card was audigy 2 and then I moved to X-meridian after that and never looked back, but it seems that this card might be a pretty good one, driver issues aside of course.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





germanium said:


> I've had this card , while very good & is bordering on high end it's not quite there stock. This card has tremendous potential though to be an absolute giant killer where you have difficulty beating it at *10x the cost with very little work*. Same goes for the X-Fi Titanium HD as it uses very similar hardware. A little more difficult with the Titanium HD though.


 
   
  I don't think that's a very fair thing to say about this card. It does very very well, and does have a very good dac. But even my Matrix M-stage beats out this card in terms of amplification.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> I don't think that's a very fair thing to say about this card. It does very very well, and does have a very good dac. But even my Matrix M-stage beats out this card in terms of amplification.


 
  You obviously haven't heard this card with my mods.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





germanium said:


> You obviously haven't heard this card with my mods.


 
   
  Have any DACs or Amplifiers that are worth $1800 to compare it to?


----------



## eggyhustles

Quote: 





germanium said:


> You obviously haven't heard this card with my mods.


 
  no one here has, lol.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





eggyhustles said:


> no one here has, lol.


 
  Not entirely true. There is one  that did so & really liked the result.


----------



## germanium

10X the cost by the way is no guarantee of better quality as much of that goes into physical aesthetics & having to have it's own power supply transformer. Great sound can be had for cheap but it takes some work on the part of the listener. I'm not saying that 10X the cost DACs can't beat the stock unit but it would have a very hard time beating my modified unit. 10X the price generally does not improve things that much. It is the law of diminishing returns. Going to 100X the cost does often improve things dramatically but not always. Those are really statement products that are truly cost no object.


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





germanium said:


> 10X the cost by the way is no guarantee of better quality as much of that goes into physical aesthetics & having to have it's own power supply transformer. Great sound can be had for cheap but it takes some work on the part of the listener. I'm not saying that 10X the cost DACs can't beat the stock unit but it would have a very hard time beating my modified unit. 10X the price generally does not improve things that much. It is the law of diminishing returns. Going to 100X the cost does often improve things dramatically but not always. Those are really statement products that are truly cost no object.


 
   
  It certainly goes without saying that "mo money doesn't mean mo betta", in the audio world. However, you make a strong statement saying it compares to DACs at 10X the price. It also goes without saying that laws of diminishing returns are exemplified with audio gear. However a good portion of the price goes into the little details that make higher end DACs gain a small edge over lower cost units. For example, power transformers and regeneration are incredibly important in DAC implementation, and can get very pricey very quickly.
   
  So again, I ask have you recently owned any DACs at the value of $1800 that this unit outperforms?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





elwappo99 said:


> It certainly goes without saying that "mo money doesn't mean mo betta", in the audio world. However, you make a strong statement saying it compares to DACs at 10X the price. It also goes without saying that laws of diminishing returns are exemplified with audio gear. However a good portion of the price goes into the little details that make higher end DACs gain a small edge over lower cost units. For example, power transformers and regeneration are incredibly important in DAC implementation, and can get very pricey very quickly.
> 
> So again, I ask have you recently owned any DACs at the value of $1800 that this unit outperforms?


 
  If you were to actually hear what I have done I think you would change your tune. The main mods are to the power supply & in case you are not aware the power supply is in the direct signal path so huge differences can be made here with not very much cash outlay either. I go a completely different route to improve sound than other modders & having very limited funds to accomplish my goals I had to come up with a real difference maker that goes well beyond anything I've heard before. While I cannot own DAC's of the price that are 10X this soundcard it does not mean that I haven't heard any in that price range & I have not heard anything that could put mod modded cards to shame yet. I have heard setups that cost may times what mine cost & still found wanting in some areas that my modded card excel at.
   
  My power supply mods work equally well whether they are applied before or after regulation devices, it does not matter at all as long as my mods are applied to both the plus & minus rails & any single supply rails & all caps lead back to ground my mods work wonders to the sound


----------



## cdd3068

Quote: 





friskyseal said:


> I'll give some brief impressions. I've wasted way too much money on op amps for this sound card. Also, I've taken the shield off the card so many times that one of the screws will no longer screw in. If you plan to try many op amps, I recommend leaving the shield off until you settle on a set, and then put it back on.
> 
> My headphone is the Sennheiser HD 380 Pro. [Clear, neutral, slightly warm, slight emphasis in the mid-bass and midrange.] It is a low-impedance phone so I am using the normal gain.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I just switched from LME49720 to LME49990...I'm picking up my jaw from the ground still...I have the say the biggest difference is for me was the bass. It's tighter, more defined? The mids to highs are more smoothed compared to the LME49720. I actually turned OFF my EQ that I was running in Xonar Audio Center when LME49990 were in place (the one I was previously using) and the heavens sang! I'm going to go enjoy my whole music collection again. IMO LME49990 > LME49720. +1 for frugalphile...he ships from around Buffalo, NY and came pretty quick down to Florida. One word of advice, he has auction for both single and dual SOIC LME49990...make sure you get the DUAL! I made the mistake of buying the single  If anyone needs some single ones for any reason, let me know! I'll sell them to ya!


----------



## xeizo

You make such good advertising! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Just ordered one dual from him for the buffer-position(I only use line-out), I'll be camping by the mailbox ...


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

I'll nth the love for the LME49990s. Got mine a few days ago and have been in audio Nirvana ever since. Both my Denon D5ks and 600s have had their "Denon Bass" tamed a bit in exchange for some absolutely phenomenal mid and high frequency performance. Increased detail, VERY much increased sound stage(depth) and positioning(forward sounding).
   
  I've probably re-listened to my entire Apocalytpica collection several times over. Heavy Metal Cello never sounded this good. My one fear was what these OPAMPs would do to my electronic music (Trance, Techno, Industrial, etc) since I'm a bit of a bass head when it comes to these genres. While the bass is tamed it's performance is stellar. It's tight, responsive and with little roll over into other frequency ranges, and still manages to give you a good thumping if you want it . Got mine from FrugalPhile on Ebay as well. Quick shipping, good price, great quality work.


----------



## theShaz

Hey Stanley, 
   
  You reckon these would work?
   

   
   
  I'd like to add the LME49990's to my collection. And if I remember correctly, I want Singles not Duals. 
   
  Anyway, I ordered 2 of these from China. If they end up being the wrong thing, I'll just make artwork out of them haha. They weren't that much.


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Hey Stanley,
> 
> You reckon these would work?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  As far as I'm aware, you need TWO chips per DIP8 package. So those singles would NOT work.


----------



## theShaz

EDIT: 
   
  I talked to the original seller, he agreed to wave $1 off from my first order as well as take out shipping for my 2nd order, and he is now sending me two dual to monos instead of two singles.
   
  That should do it.
   
  I will report back when I have these installed on my front channels. I might replace the daughter board OpAmps as well if these really end up giving the sound different folks have mentioned here.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Hey Stanley,
> 
> You reckon these would work?
> 
> ...


 

 Nice try; these boards would be correct for the Texas Instruments® THS4032 dual op amp.  I'm after the THS4031 solo op amp, and its 600Ω-stable cousin the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA, for my own rig; and those need a three-layer adapter PCB that can take surface-mount resistors and ceramic caps for the output compensation on each of the top and bottom surface-mount op amps.


----------



## theShaz

Got a picture of what you're talking about? Because I can't find it anywhere.

 EDIT: Closest thing I can find to your description is this:
   
   

   
  I went to the site written on the PCB, and I found a plethora of LME49990MA's with all kinds of bells and whistles here:
   
http://powerfulsound.com/product/list.html?cate_no=194
   
  If someone here has the knowledge or the korean literacy, maybe they can point us at the correct adapter. 
   
  EDIT 2: Narrowed them down to two. A single substrate and a dual substrate. Both hold LME49990MA's.
   
  Single: http://powerfulsound.com/product/detail.html?product_no=560&cate_no=194&display_group=1
  Double: http://powerfulsound.com/product/detail.html?product_no=559&cate_no=194&display_group=1
   
  Just need someone to point me in the right direction and I will go ahead and try to purchase 2 of these and test.


----------



## xeizo

I wonder how important those caps are, there are already compensating caps on the ST/STX - the Nichigon Gold ones. Those caps may be more important if one is DC:ing the output on the card. And if one is not DC:ing, the cheapo ones seem to work as someone in the thread is already using them ...


----------



## theShaz

I am definitely going to try the El-Cheapos that I picked from eBay. But bcschmerker4 's post got me thinking now.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> I wonder how important those caps are, there are already compensating caps on the ST/STX - the Nichigon Gold ones. Those caps may be more important if one is DC:ing the output on the card. And if one is not DC:ing, the cheapo ones seem to work as someone in the thread is already using them ...


 
  Those are not compensation cap , they are filter caps. Compensation caps are normally  surface mount ceramic or in larger circuits sometimes silver mica but mostly some form of ceramic. The type of capacitor is critical & may be different with different circuits. On my Adcom GFA545 I used own it came with a monolithic ceramic compensation cap & it was in large part responsible for the grainy sound of that amp. When I put a silver mica in it's place most of the grainy sound disappeared. The Adcom GFA 555 had the silver mica cap in it stock. The GFA555 used the same exact circuit design as the GFA545.Lay out was different as well as different power transistors.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





theshaz said:


> Got a picture of what you're talking about? Because I can't find it anywhere.
> 
> EDIT: Closest thing I can find to your description is this:
> 
> ...


 

 Those capacitors must be for power-supply decoupling; they're far larger than I picture being needed for output compensation.  The compensating caps would be somewhere in the pico- to nanofarad range, probably between Pins 6 and 7 on both the THS4031 and LME49990MA.  (The THS4032 has no provision for "internal" output comp.)


----------



## theShaz

So from what I've gathered so far, basically these are OpAmps that we wont be able to purchase, only make ourselves. Require some precise soldering and components that you wont find everywhere.
   
  I'll try what the ebay guy sends me, I guess if I end up hating the output then I'll swap back to stock.


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

That Korean site has some nice OPAMPS 
   
  Got a kick out of this line:
   
  [size=large]4) the bass is very hard[/size]


----------



## Hanseivan

I'm trying to connect my new Xonar Essence ST card to an AV-receiver (Yamaha rx-v373 with Dali Zensor speakers 3.1), is this best done through anolog coaxial for DAC or using the digital output?
 Just learned that the Yamaha receiver are using Burr Brown DACs just like the sound card. Would the SQ be the same using HDMI, from PC to receiver, without the sound card?


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





hanseivan said:


> I'm trying to connect my new Xonar Essence ST card to an AV-receiver (Yamaha rx-v373 with Dali Zensor speakers 3.1), is this best done through anolog coaxial for DAC or using the digital output?
> Just learned that the Yamaha receiver are using Burr Brown DACs just like the sound card. Would the SQ be the same using HDMI, from PC to receiver, without the sound card?


 
   
  Essence ST uses Burr Brown PCM1792A which is a high end stereo-DAC, your Yamaha-receiver most likely uses a much lesser model and a multichannel one to that. However, the bottleneck is not the DAC but most likely the receiver itself, to fully appreciate the difference in favor of Xonar ST I guess you need better gear. You can use the card as a HP-amplifier to get better sound than from the receiver, and as such the card is marketed, as a headamp-card!
   
  It's not entirely impossible the difference may shine through despite the receiver, I have a Sony-receiver in the livingroom using a Wolfson-DAC and a Sony bluray-player also using a Wolfson-DAC but a slightly better model. Not as good as PCM1792A, but it can easily be heard that the analog out from the bluray-player sounds better than the sound through HDMI(on stereo-Music that is!). For one, one is bypassing the DSP of the receiver entirely, and I think it would be the same in your case if your receiver has a "source direct" button. You can't bypass the DSP of the receiver using HDMI.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Essence ST uses Burr Brown PCM1792A which is a high end stereo-DAC, your Yamaha-receiver most likely uses a much lesser model and a multichannel one to that. However, the bottleneck is not the DAC but most likely the receiver itself, to fully appreciate the difference in favor of Xonar ST I guess you need better gear. You can use the card as a HP-amplifier to get better sound than from the receiver, and as such the card is marketed, as a headamp-card!
> 
> It's not entirely impossible the difference may shine through despite the receiver, I have a Sony-receiver in the livingroom using a Wolfson-DAC and a Sony bluray-player also using a Wolfson-DAC but a slightly better model. Not as good as PCM1792A, but it can easily be heard that the analog out from the bluray-player sounds better than the sound through HDMI(on stereo-Music that is!). For one, one is bypassing the DSP of the receiver entirely, and I think it would be the same in your case if your receiver has a "source direct" button. You can't bypass the DSP of the receiver using HDMI.


 
  even if you run HDMI to the receiver and doing Pure Direct, although you're bypassing all the DSP, you're still using the receiver's DAC and Amp. you're essentially just running the digital to digital output from your STX to the receiver, but your receiver is still the one doing the digital to analogue output to your speakers. but i would say, and willing to guess that running HDMI to your receiver and letting your receiver do the work will 'probably' yield better results than running analogue RCA to your receiver, in which case you're decoding the signal and amping the signal twice, which possibly will degrade the signal by a whole lot. when possible, you should avoid amping twice. but who knows, unless if your receiver has really ****ty DAC, which i doubt it.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> even if you run HDMI to the receiver and doing Pure Direct, although you're bypassing all the DSP, you're still using the receiver's DAC and Amp. you're essentially just running the digital to digital output from your STX to the receiver, but your receiver is still the one doing the digital to analogue output to your speakers. but i would say, and willing to guess that running HDMI to your receiver and letting your receiver do the work will 'probably' yield better results than running analogue RCA to your receiver, in which case you're decoding the signal and amping the signal twice, which possibly will degrade the signal by a whole lot. when possible, you should avoid amping twice. but who knows, unless if your receiver has really ****ty DAC, which i doubt it.


 
   
  I don't know about the Yamaha, but my Sony bypasses ALL digital stuff when doing "pure direct" ie eq etc. stops working. On Sony the signal is redirected straight to the power amp, and that one is good enough to hear the difference. May be different on the Yamaha though, in which case he needs better stuff to hear the difference - which I wrote from the start  
   
  edit. if it wasn't obvious, the Sony-version of "pure direct" only works on the analog inputs of the receiver as it IS "analog direct".


----------



## theShaz

Quote: 





hanseivan said:


> I'm trying to connect my new Xonar Essence ST card to an AV-receiver (Yamaha rx-v373 with Dali Zensor speakers 3.1), is this best done through anolog coaxial for DAC or using the digital output?
> Just learned that the Yamaha receiver are using Burr Brown DACs just like the sound card. Would the SQ be the same using HDMI, from PC to receiver, without the sound card?


 
  Kill the cable mess and use optical. The DAC in your Yamaha will take care of the sound output. 
   
  Matter of fact, you could eliminate your ST altogether with this type of setup if your onboard has optical out.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> I don't know about the Yamaha, but my Sony bypasses ALL digital stuff when doing "pure direct" ie eq etc. stops working. On Sony the signal is redirected straight to the power amp, and that one is good enough to hear the difference. May be different on the Yamaha though, in which case he needs better stuff to hear the difference - which I wrote from the start


 
  yes it'll by pass all eq, level control ("ALL digital stuff"), standing wave and what not, but your SONY is still the one converting the digital signal to analogue and outputting to the speakers, hence DAC. the eq, level, standingwave all that you're referring to are just DSP. whenever you have a digital signal being output to analogue speaker/headphone, the last stage of that conversion is the DAC.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> yes it'll by pass all eq, level control ("ALL digital stuff"), standing wave and what not, but your SONY is still the one converting the digital signal to analogue and outputting to the speakers, hence DAC. the eq, level, standingwave all that you're referring to are just DSP. whenever you have a digital signal being output to analogue speaker/headphone, the last stage of that conversion is the DAC.


 
   
  Yes, of course, if the signal is DIGITAL. But I was talking about a analog source, not a digital one, and as I said it is ANALOG direct not anlog-to-digital-to-analog-direct which sounds real crumpy ....
   
  edit. as TheShaz said, if he insists on using a digital signal he doesn't need the soundcard at all, spdif from the onboard sound or HDMI is exactly as good as any digital coming from ST.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> but it can easily be heard that the analog out from the bluray-player sounds better than the sound through HDMI(on stereo-Music that is!). For one, one is bypassing the DSP of the receiver entirely, and *I think it would be the same in your case if your receiver has a "source direct" button. You can't bypass the DSP of the receiver using HDMI.*


 
   
  Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Yes, of course, if the signal is DIGITAL. But I was talking about a analog source, not a digital one, and as I said it is ANALOG direct not anlog-to-digital-to-analog-direct which sounds real crumpy ....
> 
> edit. as TheShaz said, if he insists on using a digital signal he doesn't need the soundcard at all, spdif from the onboard sound or HDMI is exactly as good as any digital coming from ST.


 
   
   
  i just re-read your post three times... unless you didn't mean what you said. you pretty much suggested using HDMI to his receiver and suggested that it'll by pass the DSP by using pure direct. in which case, the receiver is still the one doing the digital to analogue conversion (DAC). HDMI simply by-passing the digital signal. the receiver is still the last stage doing the conversion and amping. regardless of DSP ("all that digital stuff" eq), if you're outputting that way like you suggested, your receiver IS the DAC and AMP. it doesn't get more clearer than that. unless you meant otherwise, but what you wrote doesn't suggest otherwise. 
   
  either case, what i am saying is it's "probably" still in his best interest to use the HDMI since when posible, one should always avoid dual amping.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> i just re-read your post three times... unless you didn't mean what you said. you pretty much suggested using HDMI to his receiver and suggested that it'll by pass the DSP by using pure direct. in which case, the receiver is still the one doing the digital to analogue conversion (DAC). HDMI simply by-passing the digital signal. the receiver is still the last stage doing the conversion and amping. regardless of DSP ("all that digital stuff" eq), if you're outputting that way like you suggested, your receiver IS the DAC and AMP. it doesn't get more clearer than that. unless you meant otherwise, but what you wrote doesn't suggest otherwise.
> 
> either case, what i am saying is it's "probably" still in his best interest to use the HDMI since when posible, one should always avoid dual amping.


 
   
  I never suggested anything of the like, but I wasn't clear enough I guess. I was only talking about a pure anlog source ie analog out on a bluray-player or the the rca-outs on Xonar ST _VS_ a digital source like HDMI or spdif from Xonar(or onboard or whatever).
   
  He was wondering about how to get the best sound from ST and as the best part of ST is the DAC, he must use analog out to accomplish that, of course his receiver may be to lowly to benefit from that - but with a good analog amplifier that is the way to go. My example with the Sony was intended to show it isn't necessary to use super high-end gear.
   
  Pure practical speaking so is HDMI or spdif the easiest way to go, but a Xonar Essence ST isn't needed for that since he already hinted at having HDMI on the computer.


----------



## howzz1854

^^^ unless you're suggesting him to run Analogue from his STX to Receiver and doing pure direct. is that what you're suggesting? because if that's the case, that's EXACTLY what i said one should avoid. analogue from STX to receiver is dual amping regardless of pure direct or not.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> ^^^ unless you're suggesting him to run Analogue from his STX to Receiver and doing pure direct. is that what you're suggesting? because if that's the case, that's EXACTLY what i said one should avoid. analogue from STX to receiver is dual amping regardless of pure direct or not.


 

 Well, it may be on Yamaha but it sure is not on Sony,  when using the direct-button on Sony the signal is routed to the power amplifier directly. And you can't do without a power amplifier if you whish to drive any speakers, so your "dual amping" is totally unavoidable in the "driving speakers" case ...


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Well, it may be on Yamaha but it sure is not on Sony,  when using the direct-button on Sony the signal is routed to the power amplifier directly. And you can't do without a power amplifier if you whish to drive any speakers, so your "dual amping" is totally unavoidable in the "driving speakers" case ...


 
  you can if you run the source to the AVR digitally through HDMI or SPDIF.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> you can if you run the source to the AVR digitally through HDMI or SPDIF.


 
   
  The DAC inside still has to make an analog signal to send to the built in power amplifier, in essence it's no difference to using an external DAC except mabe some shorter cables involved ... in short it comes down to if the difference between the DAC:s are smaller or larger than the difference between very short cables(internal) vs some longer ones(external) ....


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> The DAC inside still has to make an analog signal to send to the built in power amplifier, in essence it's no difference to using an external DAC except mabe some shorter cables involved ... in short it comes down to if the difference between the DAC:s are smaller or larger than the difference between very short cables(internal) vs some longer ones(external) ....


 
   
  if he's using the HDMI / SPDIF to his AVR yes, his receiver will be the DAC and AMP, and no dual amping. but if he's running analogue out to his receiver he'll bypass the AVR's DAC, but he'll be dual amping. either case the AVR's amp is used regardless. it's whether you're dual amping or not.


----------



## Hanseivan

Thank you for the replies, your discussion is quite interesting.
   
  Originally I purchased the sound card, because the audio on the HDMI would cut out when the monitor entered power saving mode. Realize now I could just have used SPDIF on the motherboard. Certainly I hoped the ST would give clearer audio, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Switching between the ST and HDMI many many times, I have a hard time hearing any difference.
  With my current setup, what would you suggest for clearer audio, without buying a new receiver or speakers? (maybe it's just me that's never satisfied, it sounds fantastic!)


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> if he's using the HDMI / SPDIF to his AVR yes, his receiver will be the DAC and AMP, and no dual amping. but if he's running analogue out to his receiver he'll bypass the AVR's DAC, but he'll be dual amping. either case the AVR's amp is used regardless. it's whether you're dual amping or not.


 
   
  If any "dual amping" will occur depends on the construction of the actual amplifier, if there are any "pre amping" going on from the inputs or if it's just passive circutry. If the circuit before the power amp is passive in "direct mode" there will be NO dual amping. There are different constructions out there so you can't generalize. Anyway, an easy way to guess what's going on is if the volume control is analog or digital. If the volume control is digital there will be NO real analog direct, so in that case you're right, but if the receiver has a good old analog volume control chances are the routing  are smarter done ... some higher end "pre amps" are entirely passive and just routes the different inputs to an external power amp. Also, to avoid "dual amping" I assume the user is not connecting the HP-out to a receiver, because that output is indeed amped so there will be dual amping. The line-out on Essence ST is just buffered and of much higher signal quality and could drive a power amplifier directly without any pre amp whatsoever, even if risky because it's too easy too accidentally raise the volume on a PC.
   
  As I said, I don't know how the actual Yamaha is constructed, but the questioner says he can't hear any difference so it's probably done the not so pure way.
   
  The best way to enjoy the ST in this case seems to use it as a headphone amplifier only, for that it is very good and borders on high-end territiory ...


----------



## Hanseivan

The volume control is digital.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





hanseivan said:


> The volume control is digital.


 
  So is the "Gain" control digital on these cards


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> If any "dual amping" will occur depends on the construction of the actual amplifier, if there are any "pre amping" going on from the inputs or if it's just passive circutry. If the circuit before the power amp is passive in "direct mode" there will be NO dual amping. There are different constructions out there so you can't generalize. Anyway, an easy way to guess what's going on is if the volume control is analog or digital. If the volume control is digital there will be NO real analog direct, so in that case you're right, but if the receiver has a good old analog volume control chances are the routing  are smarter done ... some higher end "pre amps" are entirely passive and just routes the different inputs to an external power amp. Also, to avoid "dual amping" I assume the user is not connecting the HP-out to a receiver, because that output is indeed amped so there will be dual amping. The line-out on Essence ST is just buffered and of much higher signal quality and could drive a power amplifier directly without any pre amp whatsoever, even if risky because it's too easy too accidentally raise the volume on a PC.
> 
> As I said, I don't know how the actual Yamaha is constructed, but the questioner says he can't hear any difference so it's probably done the not so pure way.
> 
> The best way to enjoy the ST in this case seems to use it as a headphone amplifier only, for that it is very good and borders on high-end territiory ...


 
  when you connect through the RCA line out on the STX to another Amp, does the volume control in the Asus control panel affect the output volume still?


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





germanium said:


> So is the "Gain" control digital on these cards


 
   
  Yes, it's in the onboard DSP, as it is on all audio cards. Which in it's turn is controlled by the drivers on the PC. And it have nothing to do with sound quality per se as it is entirely in the digital domain before the DAC. It would matter more if it was after the DAC. Except, the sound resolution in bits is reduced when you lower the sound.
   
  If you refer to the recent discussion, so wasn't it anything on any volume control itself we where dicussing, but rather the presence or not presence of active circuitry in the signal path in Home A/V-receivers which could color the sound - or not - in a A/V-receiver so is a digital volume control a rather sure sign that the circuitry before the power amplifier-stage is at least not passive. Normally, passive is to prefer, even if very high quality active circuitry can do without coloring the sound. But probably not in an entry-level receiver anyway ....


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> when you connect through the RCA line out on the STX to another Amp, does the volume control in the Asus control panel affect the output volume still?


 
   
  Yes, the volume is controlled via the onboard DSP(C-Media Oxygen 8788HT aka Asus AV100/200) which is controlled by the Asus-drivers ie the control panel. So, you could use a poweramp directly, but it is not advicable as if you lower the volume very much digitally through the driver you get less bits(not bitperfect). And, you have to lower the volume otherwise you would be playing maximum loud all the time. So you need some sort of volume control after the line out, whether it's a preamp, a mixer or an integrated amp/receiver. So you can run bitperfect if you like.
   
  Also, if you should slip with the mouse on the volume control onscreen you would blow the speakers, if you run straight to a poweramp - not so good ...
   
  edit. forgot, you can't change the volume on the card through the drivers when running in ASIO-mode, it bypasses the drivers and uses the card as a more or less clean DAC.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Yes, the volume is controlled via the onboard DSP(C-Media Oxygen 8788HT aka Asus AV100/200) which is controlled by the Asus-drivers ie the control panel. So, you could use a poweramp directly, but it is not advicable as if you lower the volume very much digitally through the driver you get less bits(not bitperfect). And, you have to lower the volume otherwise you would be playing maximum loud all the time. So you need some sort of volume control after the line out, whether it's a preamp, a mixer or an integrated amp/receiver. So you can run bitperfect if you like.
> 
> Also, if you should slip with the mouse on the volume control onscreen you would blow the speakers, if you run straight to a poweramp - not so good ...


 
  maybe someone else can chime in on this as well, but if the analogue out signal through RCA also has a volume control to itself, and you connect it to an external tube amp, aren't you amping it "twice"? 
   
  how would one set the volume on the RCA line out then to the Max? and lower the volume knob on the Tube amp? i re-read your post three more times, but i swear i am still having trouble understanding it... i dont know if it's the wind or the california brush fire.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> maybe someone else can chime in on this as well, but if the analogue out signal through RCA also has a volume control to itself, and you connect it to an external tube amp, aren't you amping it "twice"?
> 
> how would one set the volume on the RCA line out then to the Max? and lower the volume knob on the Tube amp? i re-read your post three more times, but i swear i am still having trouble understanding it... i dont know if it's the wind or the california brush fire.


 
   
  It's because you're not familiar with "digital", there is NO volume control in the signal path AFTER the DAC ie Digital-to-Analog-conversion on the Xonar ST.
   
  The only stuff in the signal path on ST is a buffer-OP and a pair of filter caps, the sound will be as loud as the DAC-chip plays.
   
  The ideal would be to play at maximum level on the sound card as that is what gives best sound quality, best S/N and so on, unless something is clipping in which case one may have to lower the digital level a notch. So, the best is to control the volume externallly ie via the volume control on your tube amp.
   
  edit. as I said, if you use ASIO the soundcard always plays at max level aka "bitperfect".
   
  edit2. but you have sort of a "double amping"-point in the fact that the buffer-OP is a small amplifier, and it could affect signal quality. Now, you can't use the DAC-chip WITHOUT a buffer-OP as one is needed for it to work. But you can change it for a better one, or change the filter caps to better ones, or direct couple the OP to the RCA:s(in which case you could get oscillation if unlucky, that's why the filter caps are normally needed depending on how good your main amp are). Anyway, this "OP-amp rolling" is quite popular here  
   
  edit3. The RCA-output on the Xonar ST is of VERY high quality: -124dB S/N, 10-90000Hz frequency response, 0.001% THD+IM etc so normally it's your surrounding gear which is not up to the task ...


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> It's because you're not familiar with "digital", there is NO volume control in the signal path AFTER the DAC ie Digital-to-Analog-conversion on the Xonar ST.
> 
> The only stuff in the signal path on ST is a buffer-OP and a pair of filter caps, the sound will be as loud as the DAC-chip plays.
> 
> ...


 
  thanks for clearing it up. so just we're clear. through the RCA out on the STX, the Asus volume control and windows volume control will still raise and lower the sound volume, but it's NOT amping? so one should leave the volume knob in Asus control panel at max? and we're not talking about the mixer panel, which is always left at 76. and from there on, the user controls the volume from the tube amp? 
   
  i was always under the assumption that if it's through an analogue out, if it affects the volume, then it's being amped.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> thanks for clearing it up. so just we're clear. through the RCA out on the STX, the Asus volume control and windows volume control will still raise and lower the sound volume, but it's NOT amping? so one should leave the volume knob in Asus control panel at max? and we're not talking about the mixer panel, which is always left at 76. and from there on, the user controls the volume from the tube amp?
> 
> i was always under the assumption that if it's through an analogue out, if it affects the volume, then it's being amped.


 
   
  Now you're starting to understand   And, if you use ASIO so is the mixer panel totally bypassed, which is really the best playback mode. ASIO was created for professional recording studios, those people don't want any coloration they haven't introduced intentionally by themselves ...
   
  If you use Foobar2000 you can install a ASIO-plugin and use as sound output in Foobar2000:s preferences.
   
  Microsoft have created something similar called WASAPI, there is a plugin for that too. WASAPI and ASIO are technically exactly as good.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Now you're starting to understand   And, if you use ASIO so is the mixer panel totally bypassed, which is really the best playback mode. ASIO was created for professional recording studios, those people don't want any coloration they haven't introduced intentionally by themselves ...
> 
> If you use Foobar2000 you can install a ASIO-plugin and use as sound output in Foobar2000:s preferences.
> 
> Microsoft have created something similar called WASAPI, there is a plugin for that too. WASAPI and ASIO are technically exactly as good.


 
   
  i've used WASPI but there're issues with using other softwares at the same time that gives error message. which ASIO plug-in should i use and where can i get it. 
   
  so the buffer opamp is an amp itself, which is back at square one of what i was trying to say. is there a DAC that by-pass any amp stage and just lets the external amp does the whole amping? or is such a thing called DAC/AMP combo


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> i've used WASPI but there're issues with using other softwares at the same time that gives error message. which ASIO plug-in should i use and where can i get it.
> 
> so the buffer opamp is an amp itself, which is back at square one of what i was trying to say. is there a DAC that by-pass any amp stage and just lets the external amp does the whole amping? or is such a thing called DAC/AMP combo


 
   
  There is a good ASIO-plugin under "plugins" on the foobar2000 homepage!
   
  And to the DAC-chips, there are indeed DAC-chips that doesn't need any buffer-OP. Wolfson has a popular one, which has a long DIY-thread here. Exactly that Wolfson-chip is by accident what sits in my bluray-player, and yes, it has good sound quality    However, those DAC-chips are not the highest end ones, those which are the best do require buffer-amping all of them. And even if they do, they are ultimately better, unless paired with a really bad OP.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> There is a good ASIO-plugin under "plugins" on the foobar2000 homepage!
> 
> And to the DAC-chips, there are indeed DAC-chips that doesn't need any buffer-OP. Wolfson has a popular one, which has a long DIY-thread here. Exactly that Wolfson-chip is by accident what sits in my bluray-player, and yes, it has good sound quality    However, those DAC-chips are not the highest end ones, those which are the best do require buffer-amping all of them. And even if they do, they are ultimately better, unless paired with a really bad OP.


 
   
  interesting. thanks for the info. i'll check out the ASIO plugin. the WASAPI issue i was having was when i play music. sometimes opening up other applications gives error that there's no sound driver available, duahh... but it's just annoying that i have to close the error message everytime.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> interesting. thanks for the info. i'll check out the ASIO plugin. the WASAPI issue i was having was when i play music. sometimes opening up other applications gives error that there's no sound driver available, duahh... but it's just annoying that i have to close the error message everytime.


 
   
  Yes, those plugins are made for ultimate sound quality, not convenient multitasking   But mabe ASIO coexists better for you? The principle is still that it tries to run the sound card exclusively, so there may be error messages. Use the one of them which is the least annoying for you


----------



## howzz1854

^^^ actually the Schiit Bifrost / Valhalla combo i've been looking at, and eventually will be upgrading to, is supposedly discreet and don't use op amps. i am going to give those a try at some point.


----------



## Magiv9

Please use the asio drivers from "xonar unified" (Google it). 
It allows you to use game/YouTube sounds at the same time with Foobar  

I know the asio works because there are some bad encoded songs that can't be played. 
Make sure to adjust the asio channel mapping too and rpgwizard dolby headphones for the best experience


----------



## kingwaffle

Hello. I have been lurking off and on for awhile now. I currently have this sound card (STX Essence) as well as a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-A900X's. Also have a pair of 700's that I'm trying to decide what to do with.
   
  I primarily listen to music (mp3s/FLAC & Winamp w/ the WSASPI plugin), but also occasionally dabble in FPS's. (Namely TF2 and BF3)
   
  I tried searching the thread, but came up fairly empty as regards to my question:
   
  Is there a "best" practice regarding the sample rates? I understand music is typically 44.1khz, if I set the Xonar control panel to anything higher music will get re-sampled. Is this particularly a _bad _thing? Also, if I do change the sample rate to 192khz, am I supposed to also set this sample rate in the "Advanced" tab of the speaker properties? 
   
  I have also read that you should set the gain on the headphones to match the impedance, but was curious as to whether the potential damage is brought about if/when the output volume is set too high, or if simply setting the gain alone is enough to do it. I swear the cans sound better with the higher "medium" gain setting in Xonar, but am worried since it suggests "Normal Gain" for my cans (42 ohms).
   
  I realize these questions have been probably asked/answered before. I tried searching but it didn't work all that particularly well.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





kingwaffle said:


> Is there a "best" practice regarding the sample rates? I understand music is typically 44.1khz, if I set the Xonar control panel to anything higher music will get re-sampled. Is this particularly a _bad _thing? Also, if I do change the sample rate to 192khz, am I supposed to also set this sample rate in the "Advanced" tab of the speaker properties?
> 
> I have also read that you should set the gain on the headphones to match the impedance, but was curious as to whether the potential damage is brought about if/when the output volume is set too high, or if simply setting the gain alone is enough to do it. I swear the cans sound better with the higher "medium" gain setting in Xonar, but am worried since it suggests "Normal Gain" for my cans (42 ohms).


 
   
  Normally it is best to not resample anything because a./ there is varying quality between different resamplers b./ it is CPU-heavy on a PC. If you don't resample you just know the sound is ok,which is good for the mind!
   
  If you choose to resample you must know what you do, and use a good resampler, normally one associated with the player you use and in the form of a plugin. Also, the setting in Windows control panel is only active if you run the Windows sound stack/mixer, which you shouldn't for music, use WASAPI or ASIO - selectable in the player - as they talk directly to the soundcard and should be used if resampling is going on. The new Soundblaster Z/ZxR even require upsampling if you run in the "stereo direct"-mode, which is only active @192kHz. In the Creative case "stereo direct" bypasses the DSP on the card and lets the drivers talk directly to the DAC.
   
  So what are good upsamplers/resamplers? If there are any. It's debatable, but according to my own findings so is the standard resampling plugin in foobar2000 not the best out there(there is other plugins that can be used), I think it colors the sound ie no upsampling is normally better. There's better results using the built in upsamplers in uLilith and Musicbee imho. But the best upsampling for PC that I've found so far is the  plugin in Deadbeef-player under Linux which uses the original "Secret Rabbit Code" for upsampling - I think it sounds excellent! Also, under Linux it's essential to use ALSA instead of Pulseaudio for playback. Like it's important to use WASAPI or ASIO under Windows, as those modes bypasses all sound stuff going on under the hood in the Windows OS.
   
  For gaming sound you can forget all of the above, just use the normal recommended settings.
   
  About the gain on the Xonar-cards, it is just gain and not anything else so it doesn't change any impedance or anything, you can just forget about what impedance is written in the drop menu and use the setting which sounds the best with your headphones. It's not strange if a higher gain actually sounds better, as the HP-amplifier on the Xonars is a small amplifier and all amplifiers sounds better with higher gain as long as it is under the clipping limit. Higher gain normally means lower distorsion and better S/N in the amp, it can amplifiy underlying noise in the source signal but the amp itself works better with higher gain. As I said, use what sounds subjectively the best!


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> Higher gain normally means lower distorsion and better S/N in the amp


 
   
  In fact, the opposite is true, higher analog gain generally increases distortion and noise, because there is less negative feedback to correct errors, and the input noise voltage is amplified more. The main reason why people think higher gain sounds "better" is simply because it is louder, and louder sound is perceived by humans as having better quality. Casual audio comparisons are rarely performed with accurate level matching. By the way, the Xonar Essence ST/STX have no analog volume or gain control at all, the gain setting simply adjusts the digital volume by -18, -6, or 0 dB from the lowest to highest impedance mode.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> In fact, the opposite is true, higher analog gain generally increases distortion and noise, because there is less negative feedback to correct errors, and the input noise voltage is amplified more. The main reason why people think higher gain sounds "better" is simply because it is louder, and louder sound is perceived by humans as having better quality. Casual audio comparisons are rarely performed with accurate level matching. By the way, the Xonar Essence ST/STX have no analog volume or gain control at all, the gain setting simply adjusts the digital volume by -18, -6, or 0 dB from the lowest to highest impedance mode.


 
   
  I agree that input noise is amplified more, which I wrote, and I agree that "higher" normally is perceived as "better". That's why there's "loudness wars" going on in the recording studios.
   
  But if you see the amplifier itself as a isolated entity so does most if not all amplifiers indeed perform better with higher gain, as long as it doesn't clip. Signal to noise ratio is better and there's lower overall distorsion from the amp itself. Of course no chain is better than it's weakest link, that's why I recommend selection of what setting to use based on taste rather than any thumb rule ....


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> I agree that input noise is amplified more, which I wrote


 
   
  No, you wrote that noise in the source signal is amplified more _relative to other components of the source signal_, which is wrong. I meant the input noise of the amplifier itself (which is always there, even with no source connected) is amplified more, and therefore there will be a higher noise voltage on the output. For a given signal voltage on the output, if it can be achieved with low gain + higher volume, then low gain will have a lower noise voltage and thus better SNR.
   
  Quote:  





> there's lower overall distorsion from the amp itself


 
   
  Why do you think that would be the case ? Higher gain in an amplifier reduces negative feedback, and that increases distortion. It can easily be seen on measurements like this one, or those of the O2 (link not allowed, but you can easily find them), that the higher the gain is, the worse the THD+N becomes. Except for some unusual cases, the only advantages of higher gain are:
  - higher maximum output voltage if the lower gain cannot already reach the clipping level
  - better stability (if the amp is poorly designed and unstable at low gain)
   
  But all this discussion is moot here, because, as I already explained, the Xonar STX has digital gain control.


----------



## kingwaffle

I guess I should've specified how I listen to my music in Winamp.
   
  I typically enable ReplayGain, max the volume out in Winamp, and then listen to my music at what I would consider a normal volume.
   
  If I'm understanding what I'm reading, when I enable the "medium" gain in the Xonar control panel I am more or less just off-setting the ReplayGain, correct? I've dabbled in audio editing and such, so I like to think I know what I'm doing but I might be off. 
   
  Am I more or less doing a "hard limit" on my music by doing that? If so, that would explain why my music "sounds better", simply because it's louder at the cost of dynamic audio.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





kingwaffle said:


> Hello. I have been lurking off and on for awhile now. I currently have this sound card (STX Essence) as well as a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-A900X's. Also have a pair of 700's that I'm trying to decide what to do with.
> 
> I primarily listen to music (mp3s/FLAC & Winamp w/ the WSASPI plugin), but also occasionally dabble in FPS's. (Namely TF2 and BF3)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Almost all DAC's actually perform best at 48KHz sample rate though you would be hard pressed to hear any difference as even at the lower performing sample rates they still performs at a very high level.
   
  The Xonar cards all perform less well at 44.1KHz due in large part to increased noise as there is no crystal time reference for that sample rate but once again except in rare occasions you probably wouldn't hear it. There are some IEM's with very high sensitivity where you would likely hear the increase in noise caused by 44.1KHz sample rate.
   
  The gain control is simply reducing the bits by 1-3 bits. Reducing volume by 6-18db does exactly the same thing. There in no reduction in quality if you perfectly match the respective volume for each gain setting Both "gain" & volume are handled in the same way. Increasing "gain" does actually limit the number of usable volume steps in the windows volume control depending on your headphones but if you use a program the has it's own volume control this point is moot as many have in excess to 24 bit volume controls.
   
  Unless you have separate way to control volume other than through the PC's or programs volume control I highly recommend you do not use ASIO as you will have no volume control. People think that going bit perfect & using an external means of volume control is the "cats meow"  but this is not always true, in fact it is rarely true I have found. This due to inherent losses in devices used to control volume outside the computer. I had a preamp that I used to control volume for a long time but then I took it out of the signal chain & went directly from my computer to the speaker amps & it was like removing a cloud over my music, everything sounded much more there as in feeling as though I was in the studio with the musicians on my best recordings. I will likely never go back to using an external volume control.
   
  I recommend using the lowest "gain" setting possible that gives adequate volume as this will give the most volume choices in the widows volume control hence you will be able to find the most perfect volume level for each piece of music more easily. If you use a program such as foobar, go ahead & use it's volume control. Setting to the proper "gain" will prevent accidental damage to your headphones & minimize the risk of hearing loss as well


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> No, you wrote that noise in the source signal is amplified more _relative to other components of the source signal_, which is wrong. I meant the input noise of the amplifier itself (which is always there, even with no source connected) is amplified more, and therefore there will be a higher noise voltage on the output. For a given signal voltage on the output, if it can be achieved with low gain + higher volume, then low gain will have a lower noise voltage and thus better SNR.
> 
> 
> Why do you think that would be the case ? Higher gain in an amplifier reduces negative feedback, and that increases distortion. It can easily be seen on measurements like this one, or those of the O2 (link not allowed, but you can easily find them), that the higher the gain is, the worse the THD+N becomes. Except for some unusual cases, the only advantages of higher gain are:
> ...


 
   
   
  Due to the "gain" being digital noise remains at a constant level no matter the "gain" level. Only the top 1-3 bits are cropped & as a result windows only sees 21-23 bit of a 24 bit system & can only be turned up that far. As a result maximum S/N ratio is reduced as noise remains constant. This is fine though as analog noise from the opamps will likely be little more than  the noise output of the DAC anyway. Minus 18db  from 120db is still 102db which is fine unless you are using IEM's with 122db sensitivity at 1mw. 127db is the spec of the DAC itself the headphone amp is speced at either 117db or 120db depending on where you read. If those bits had come off the bottom of the scale they would have been totally inconsequential as minus 18db from 144db is 126dbwhich is still under the 120db spec of the headamp & 2db under the lineout amp but since those bits come off the top they are consequential if only under limited circumstances. Note that the bottom bits do help reduce distortion though at this level you are not going to hear it anyway.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Due to the "gain" being digital noise remains at a constant level no matter the "gain" level.


 
   
  In case it was not obvious enough, I was referring to the effects of analog gain (in response to incorrect information in another post), and specifically pointed it out that it does not apply to these cards.
   
  Quote: 





> This is fine though as analog noise from the opamps will likely be little more than  the noise output of the DAC anyway.


 
   
  Since the noise level is constant, it does not matter for the (digital) volume control if it comes from the DAC or op amps.
   
  Quote: 





> Minus 18db  from 120db is still 102db which is fine unless you are using IEM's with 122db sensitivity at 1mw.


 
   
  It is only 102 dB if you listen to those IEMs at full volume, which is too much even at the lowest gain.
   
  Quote: 





> 127db is the spec of the DAC itself the headphone amp is speced at either 117db or 120db depending on where you read.


 
   
  It is 120 dB in the datasheet of the TPA6120, and 117 dB in the specs of the card (where it includes noise from all the other components, and is thus obviously slightly worse). However, it is 117 dB relative to the full scale ~7 Vrms output at 48 kHz sample rate. At 44.1 kHz, it drops to about 110 dB, maybe 111 at best. Let's say we use Shure SE425 IEMs, which have an impedance of 22 Ω at 1 kHz, and need 0.02 Vrms for 90 dB SPL. The noise voltage is then 7 * 10^(-117/20) * 22/(22+10) = ~6.8 uVrms at 48 kHz, and 14-15 uVrms at 44.1 kHz, regardless of the gain or volume. That translates to 20.6 and 27-27.5 dB A-weighted noise SPL, respectively. The latter is definitely audible (I can confirm it is even with full size semi-open headphones that have poor isolation), and the former might be audible with the very well isolating IEMs while no music is playing. Some very efficient full size headphones could also have audible noise at 44.1 kHz.
   
  Quote: 





> 18db from 144db is 126dbwhich is still under the 120db spec of the headamp & 2db under the lineout amp


 
   
  Once the level is attenuated by 18 dB, the line out no longer has 124 dB SNR anyway (a number that I have never seen confirmed by any source other than ASUS, by the way, Stereophile measured ~120.5 dB relative to full scale, and I get about 118-120 with the ADC noise factored out, and that is at 48 kHz). The percentage of the quantization noise relative to the total noise does not change, only the signal level is lower.


----------



## xeizo

Interesting discussion, but back to tweaking! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I received the dual OP LME49990 from Frugalphile yesterday, vary fast delivery! Haven't had the possibility to test it yet, anyone else?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> In case it was not obvious enough, I was referring to the effects of analog gain (in response to incorrect information in another post), and specifically pointed it out that it does not apply to these cards.
> 
> 
> Since the noise level is constant, it does not matter for the (digital) volume control if it comes from the DAC or op amps.
> ...


 
  I was not disagreeing with you, only expanding on it with my own observations. Yet you seem to want to treat everything I say with a certain contentiousness as if I'm somehow disagreeing with you which I am not. I never recommended listening to IEM's at those kind of volumes just exposing the fact the IEM's with sensitivities such as 122db @ 1mw are definitely going to reveal noise in quiet portions of music with this card. This it will do no matter the volume setting as there is no attenuation in the analog domain with this card. While I'm not a big fan of analog attenuation especially when carried out by a separate device outside the computer High sensitivity IEM's is one situation where such may be needed but only if the buffer following the volume control is sufficiently quiet which is not an easy task to accomplish with said IEM's.


----------



## mindbomb

Hi, idk if this has been brought up, but under the mixer tab in xonar audio center, you can choose different volume levels for the left and right channel.
  For this slider, it appears that leaving it at default will be bitperfect, and that maxing this slider out will apply a boost (unlike the main volume slider, which should be maxed out if there is a seperate amp).
  Is this correct?
   
  Lastly, is there a driver that autodetects sampling rates? I can't believe asus didnt give an option for it.
  And on that note, ASIO bypasses the resampling done in the drivers, correct? but wasapi and kernel streaming do not?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





mindbomb said:


> Hi, idk if this has been brought up, but under the mixer tab in xonar audio center, you can choose different volume levels for the left and right channel.
> For this slider, it appears that leaving it at default will be bitperfect, and that maxing this slider out will apply a boost (unlike the main volume slider, which should be maxed out if there is a seperate amp).
> Is this correct?
> 
> ...


 
  WASAPI does bypass the windows sample rate converter but not the volume control. Unsupported files will not play with WASAPI, in other words 88.2& 176.4KHz will not play with WASAPI on this card.


----------



## mindbomb

yes, the windows resampling is bypassed with wasapi, but the card itself still resamples to whatever is selected in the xonar audio center unless you use ASIO?


----------



## Magiv9

even wtih asio, it will resample to whatever it is in the asus control panel.


----------



## mindbomb

Last night, I did check on my xonar dx's digital output, and it appeared that ASIO disabled the card's resampling whereas wasapi did not.
  I assume it is the same for all xonar cards.


----------



## howzz1854

i think i saw this somewhere a while ago. but if anyone can confirm. Does STX/ST have a lower SNR at 192khz than 96khz?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> i think i saw this somewhere a while ago. but if anyone can confirm. Does STX/ST have a lower SNR at 192khz than 96khz?


 
  That is true of pretty much all DAC's currently available. It is not really  major issue though as it is almost always within 1-2db of the best measuring 48KHz sample rate specs. A look at the specs of the DAC chips themselves will tell you that this is the case


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





germanium said:


> That is true of pretty much all DAC's currently available. It is not really  major issue though as it is almost always within 1-2db of the best measuring 48KHz sample rate specs. A look at the specs of the DAC chips themselves will tell you that this is the case


 
   
  so do all of you listen at 24bit/48khz then? i know a lot of those debate are almost inaudible, but mostly to satisfy my psychological obsession.


----------



## xeizo

Which settings to use is an endless debate, the only thing that is sure is using "default" is safe ie "sounds good"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As to the aforementioned LME49990-kit on Ebay, I got my sample a few days ago and just found time to mount it. First, the long part of the legs had been bent during the transport so that it came off almost by itself on all legs. So, only thing left was short stumps which I managed to press in place using my fingers during several minutes. It felt fit, but the chips can possibly fall off during transport. When I switched on the PC I was seriously worried it shouldn't work, but it did. Both channels loud and clear, and with balance between them.
   
  And the sound? I will come back to that after gaining impressions, but it sounds subjectively very good so at least nothing seems wrong. I have only listened through stereo HiFi-speakers so far. The absolutely first impression anyway is that the sound seems very dynamic and lively and lifts far off off the speakers, which may be a good thing as the default Xonar ST sounds a little flat in most respects. But I will know more later on!


----------



## gr4474

Hi I am new to this thread.  I have the Xonar STX and run 2 channel to an Emotiva UPA-200 amp.  I want to upgrade the op amps either to LME49990 or THS4032, and have read that I will need 2 opamp for headphones and 3 sets for the RCA.  Would I use THS4032's for both RCA and headphones?    Here's the link to the THS4032:http://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d
   
  I want to buy the soldered 49990 from Frugalphile but I can't find him on Ebay.  Any link to where I can buy those pre soldered?

 Thank you!


----------



## gr4474

Ok I found frugalphile!  Is this what I need? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190762476231?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6a5462c7
   
  Do I need 3, or 5 of these?  I still want to try the THS4032 and compare if you have a link to those soldered.  I am using the RCA outs, and not using headphones yet but plan to.  I have Sennheiser RS 170 Wireless and am considering 650's.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> Ok I found frugalphile!  Is this what I need? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190762476231?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c6a5462c7
> 
> Do I need 3, or 5 of these?  I still want to try the THS4032 and compare if you have a link to those soldered.  I am using the RCA outs, and not using headphones yet but plan to.  I have Sennheiser RS 170 Wireless and am considering 650's.


 
   
  That's the one I use, but I only have it in the buffer position, it works just fine and I still thinks it has enhanced the sound. In the other two postions, the I/V-positions, I have two LM4562NA/NOPB instead of the original JRC2114DD and as I said - everything works fine together.
   
  I think the sound is awesome and I really feel like listening through large parts of my collection again. Very complex music with lots of overlays is what has had the largest benefit - "HiFi-demo" music already sounded good as it was; the resolution of detail is amazing while not being harsh, it's not a "dark" sound though so those who prefer that may beware. While not a dark sound signature, the bass is really deep and powerful 
   
  You would need one, as me, or a maximum of three to fill all positions. There are only three sockets on the card so you can't use more.
   
  I only use the RCA:s too.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Probably not, you may aswell buy the Muses out of your own - works out the same.
> mmmm I actually can't help there.... I was busy testing buffers before my pc got taken out by lightening......
> the AD797BR should work well - IF it doesn't oscillate, some members have got it to oscilate, and some have got it stable, I think the other opamps make a big difference, I think mine were oscillating in the I/V section.
> 
> One thing is for sure - 3 THS4032 is just a bit too smooth.


 
  I'm confused, aren't 2 op amps for the RCA outputs, and 1 is for the headphones?  How are 3 too smooth?  What exactly do you recommend?
   
  Thanks for all your help so far!


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> That's the one I use, but I only have it in the buffer position, it works just fine and I still thinks it has enhanced the sound. In the other two postions, the I/V-positions, I have two LM4562NA/NOPB instead of the original JRC2114DD and as I said - everything works fine together.
> 
> I think the sound is awesome and I really feel like listening through large parts of my collection again. Very complex music with lots of overlays is what has had the largest benefit - "HiFi-demo" music already sounded good as it was; the resolution of detail is amazing while not being harsh, it's not a "dark" sound though so those who prefer that may beware. While not a dark sound signature, the bass is really deep and powerful
> 
> ...


 
  Ok I ordered 3 LME49990's last night...I hope that's going to work because I didn't see your post that you only use 1. Should this be ok for all 3?  Wir3d said "3 THS4032 is to smooth" so I'm confused what to do.  Thank you for the reply!


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> Ok I ordered 3 LME49990's last night...I hope that's going to work because I didn't see your post that you only use 1. Should this be ok for all 3?  Wir3d said "3 THS4032 is to smooth" so I'm confused what to do.  Thank you for the reply!


 
   
  I can only guess but I believe it will work ok since LME49990 is very similar to LM4562 in how it behave, just with lower distorsion, noise and slightly more power, and my LME49990:s works with two LM4562:s so it's not a very different config.
   
  However, they also draw more power so let's hope the card can provide the juice. And, there is always a risk for oscillation when changing OP-amps sort of blindly like we do. What do oscillation do? Well, for one it draws even more power so if that would be the case the chips would get very hot. One thought is to test the config without the shield first with the sidepanel of the PC off, and try to determine how hot the chips actually get. Testing by holding a finger on top of them is probably enough to determine if they gets way too hot.
   
  In case of actual oscillation I guess those more expensive adapters with condensators soldered on top of them would work better, but if it works anyway I don't see how those would be necessary.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Concerning the dual-surface-mount piggyback PCB for the JEDEC 8-pin DIP, the frugalphile version from eBay® appears to leave no room for any components that may be needed for Balance/Input Compensation on the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990MA; but the Output Compensation is readily accessible, even if I have to hurdle the 49990MA's +Vcc pin.  Any better designs available for the adapter PCB itself?


----------



## cdd3068

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> Ok I ordered 3 LME49990's last night...I hope that's going to work because I didn't see your post that you only use 1. Should this be ok for all 3?  Wir3d said "3 THS4032 is to smooth" so I'm confused what to do.  Thank you for the reply!


 
   
  I only replaced the two opamps...however... I only use the headphones, not line out.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





cdd3068 said:


> I only replaced the two opamps...however... I only use the headphones, not line out.


 
   
  Yes, afaik that would do, just like myself gives priority to the single bufferamp socket since I only use the RCA:s .... things may be more complex, but I haven't found any good information on how those three opamps affect each other ....


----------



## howzz1854

can some of you make a recommendation on what OPamp to try out next. 
   
  i ordered a pair of LME49720 and i wasn't quite impressed. it killed the bass. 
   
  i am listening through HD598, which is what i consider bass neutral. 
   
  what i look for MOST is soundstage, and bass second. so if there is one opamp out there with great soundstage but doesn't sacrafice bass, or improves on it, i'd love to give it a shot.  thoughts would be deeply appreciated.


----------



## nicholars

Anyone know if the STX headphone amp works well with Sennheiser IE8 IEM's?
   
  It says 10ohm output impedance and the IE8 are 16ohm so only 1.6x the output impedance?


----------



## Magiv9

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> can some of you make a recommendation on what OPamp to try out next.
> 
> i ordered a pair of LME49720 and i wasn't quite impressed. it killed the bass.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't think the HD598 sounds that great with a bigger soundstage setting, instrument just feels too far apart and can't simulate it properly.
  Like when you listen to rock, the violin feels like it 5metres to your right and the guitars etc feels like its 2-3meters to the left but it's really dependent on the recording.


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





magiv9 said:


> I don't think the HD598 sounds that great with a bigger soundstage setting, instrument just feels too far apart and can't simulate it properly.
> Like when you listen to rock, the violin feels like it 5metres to your right and the guitars etc feels like its 2-3meters to the left but it's really dependent on the recording.


 
  i beg to differ. i particularly enjoy the wide and accurate soundstage of HD598 and would want more. sounds like you and me just have different taste. 
   
  still if anyone could think of a opamp that'll have better soundstage and bass than stock, please let me know.


----------



## Redshift Rider

howzz1854 , for extra soundstage space i would strongly advise you to try front panel out with those 49720 you got!


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





redshift rider said:


> howzz1854 , for extra soundstage space i would strongly advise you to try front panel out with those 49720 you got!


 
  interesting suggestion ont the front out. but those 49720 kills bass. hence i was wondering if there's another opamp out there, other than stock that'll have better soundstage and better/equal bass.


----------



## Redshift Rider

Well, unlike soundstage you can EQ bass when needed


----------



## nicholars

Can someone please tell me if the Xonar STX will be OK with IEM's?


----------



## stv014

It depends on what IEMs you have. There may be some issues because of the output impedance, and hiss could be audible, especially at 44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz sample rate.


----------



## nicholars

I know the output impedance is not ideal but will it still be pretty good with my IEM's?
   
  IEM's sound terrible out of my NAD amp which has 60ohm impedance. Only other thing I have is my Sansa Clip+ which sounds decent with IEM but I want to use my computer. I guess the STX should be good but not optimal for IEM?


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> I guess the STX should be good but not optimal for IEM?


 
   
  Yes, if its impedance dopes not vary much with frequency (it only does for some models), and it is not very sensitive.


----------



## nicholars

Well the IEM's I have currently are the Sennheiser IE8 (16 ohm Sensitivity:125 dB) and Shure SE215 (20 ohm Sensitivity (1 kHz)*: *107 dB SPL/mW)
   
  I know it should be 8-10x the impedance of the output jack but I cannot find any sound cards (non professional) with a low impedance (1-3ohm) .... I guess the STX should be pretty good and an improvement on my NAD 326Bee (68 ohm) jack though? Would be better to have a 1-2ohm headphone amp I am sure but I would like a soundcard with RCA and SPDIF out as well as headphone amplifier...
   
  Would be good if someone who has used the Xonar ST/STX with IEM's or IE8/SE215 could tell me if it the headphone amp with IEM's is decent enough to last me until I can get an external amplifier.


----------



## gr4474

I got my 49990 op amps in.  Does it matter which direction they are installed?


----------



## gr4474

Nevermind...I had them in backwards because all I heard was a weird hum.  I replaced the stock headphone op amps and am running only the rca out, and considering that my speakers are not the best it sounds great!  Is it just me or do these have more bass than the stock?  The chip is HOT.  Someone was concerned about swapping 3 op amps might get to hot...but if I go ahead and install the headphone op amps also...wouldn't it only use one or the other depending on what output i'm using?
   
  Thanks guys for the 49990 recommendation!


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I got my 49990 op amps in.  Does it matter which direction they are installed?


 
   


 Yes, it's VERY important as you would connect the wrong pin to the wrong jack if you don't place it right. On the original OP:s there is a small round mark on each OP indicating which pin is number 1, they are all numbered from 1-8. The number 1 pin should be placed so it points towards the back panel of the card, that is the original placement. Take a look for yourself before you do anything. There's no difference with 49990, the number 1 pin should be placed identically, and it is marked with a small digit "1" on that miniature PCB if I remember right, so you really can't go wrong.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> Nevermind...I had them in backwards because all I heard was a weird hum.  I replaced the stock headphone op amps and am running only the rca out, and considering that my speakers are not the best it sounds great!  Is it just me or do these have more bass than the stock?  The chip is HOT.  Someone was concerned about swapping 3 op amps might get to hot...but if I go ahead and install the headphone op amps also...wouldn't it only use one or the other depending on what output i'm using?
> 
> Thanks guys for the 49990 recommendation!


 
   
  You found out the hard way  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yes, the bass is more punchy, I don't think it is more in quantity it is just cleaner and faster.  About the heat, I don't know, It's hard to predict what will happen but generally it's a risk factor. You're free to try it and report back for the benefit of others, at your own risk of course!


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





howzz1854 said:


> interesting suggestion ont the front out. but those 49720 kills bass. hence i was wondering if there's another opamp out there, other than stock that'll have better soundstage and better/equal bass.


 
   
  The opamp does not kill bass. The output of the sound card with said opamp will still be measurably flat. What changes is the extraction of finer detail & dynamics. As both improve the bass becomes firmer & retains more of the impression of the dynamics which means the higher frequency component of the attack is better reproduced. This sound is in fact closer to the reality that happened in the recording studio, not the reverse. It is the better delineation of the higher frequency components in the attack that  give the impression of reduced bass even though it will measure flat.
   
  The same thing happens when you improve the power supply components as I have found yet my system is flat down to 20Hz. When deep bass occurs in music on my system it reproduces it very well but without undue emphasis as the bass is not reproduced at the expense of higher frequency components that are occurring at the same time.
   
  By the way the LME49990 spec sheet calls for at least double power supply bypasses. The STX does not have the recommended bypasses stock so may not sound as intended if mounted to the STX & as such may actually have some emphasis in the bass as a result of less well delineated high frequencies compared to if the proper bypassed were present on the STX card


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





germanium said:


> By the way the LME49990 spec sheet calls for at least double power supply bypasses. The STX does not have the recommended bypasses stock so may not sound as intended if mounted to the STX & as such may actually have some emphasis in the bass as a result of less well delineated high frequencies compared to if the proper bypassed were present on the STX card


 
   
  That may be so in theory, but it's not how it works out in reality, LME49990 sounds audibly cleaner in all frequencies ie higher resolution of detail, easier to detect tiny tiny details, room placement of instruments, reverberation, no irritating s-sound sibilance etc etc stock sounds really dry, flat and boring in comparison. It is possible the LME49990 would sound even better with proper power supply arrangements but it is superior to stock even when the implementation is half-broken  
   
  I would be very happy to be pointed in the right direction on how to enhance the power supply on the ST/STX, a step-by-step guide would be amazing, is it doable without having an oscilloscope etc?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> That may be so in theory, but it's not how it works out in reality, LME49990 sounds audibly cleaner in all frequencies ie higher resolution of detail, easier to detect tiny tiny details, room placement of instruments, reverberation, no irritating s-sound sibilance etc etc stock sounds really dry, flat and boring in comparison. It is possible the LME49990 would sound even better with proper power supply arrangements but it is superior to stock even when the implementation is half-broken
> 
> I would be very happy to be pointed in the right direction on how to enhance the power supply on the ST/STX, a step-by-step guide would be amazing, is it doable without having an oscilloscope etc?


 
  I never said that it wouldn't still be better than stock, just not as it should be. My experimentation with power supply bypasses has yielded huge fruit even with stock opamps so I can imagine what it could do for the LME49990.
   
  Yes it is extremely doable on this card & does everything I had hoped for sonically, even with stock opamps.


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

I Really need to get another 49990 for the buffer output and try the analog out to my AVR.


----------



## nicholars

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> Well the IEM's I have currently are the Sennheiser IE8 (16 ohm Sensitivity:125 dB) and Shure SE215 (20 ohm Sensitivity (1 kHz)*: *107 dB SPL/mW)
> 
> I know it should be 8-10x the impedance of the output jack but I cannot find any sound cards (non professional) with a low impedance (1-3ohm) .... I guess the STX should be pretty good and an improvement on my NAD 326Bee (68 ohm) jack though? Would be better to have a 1-2ohm headphone amp I am sure but I would like a soundcard with RCA and SPDIF out as well as headphone amplifier...
> 
> Would be good if someone who has used the Xonar ST/STX with IEM's or IE8/SE215 could tell me if it the headphone amp with IEM's is decent enough to last me until I can get an external amplifier.


 
   
  Hmmm well thanks for the help everyone... I guess I will have to blindly buy one and just hope it works then...


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> Hmmm well thanks for the help everyone... I guess I will have to blindly buy one and just hope it works then...


 
   
  If you're deadbeat on IEM:s I guess the ODAC/O2-combo would be a significantly better choice thanks to lower output impedance, and an overall sound design. More expensive, but it may be worth it in your case.
   
  edit. personally I hate IEM:s because I find it too difficult to make them fit good enough to give an even bass-response, I just use them on the sub and alike.


----------



## nicholars

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> If you're deadbeat on IEM:s I guess the ODAC/O2-combo would be a significantly better choice thanks to lower output impedance, and an overall sound design. More expensive, but it may be worth it in your case.
> 
> edit. personally I hate IEM:s because I find it too difficult to make them fit good enough to give an even bass-response, I just use them on the sub and alike.


 
   
  I prefer over ear as well but at the moment I don't have any money and I have 2 pairs of nice IEM's so I need something to use those with until I can afford some hifiman HE-400. Problem is I cannot afford much more than the STX and I also want the RCA and SPDIF outs because it will be replacing my Xonar D2. Quite suprised that noone uses IEM's from the STX!


----------



## howzz1854

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> That may be so in theory, but it's not how it works out in reality, LME49990 sounds audibly cleaner in all frequencies ie higher resolution of detail, easier to detect tiny tiny details, room placement of instruments, reverberation, no irritating s-sound sibilance etc etc stock sounds really dry, flat and boring in comparison. It is possible the LME49990 would sound even better with proper power supply arrangements but it is superior to stock even when the implementation is half-broken
> 
> I would be very happy to be pointed in the right direction on how to enhance the power supply on the ST/STX, a step-by-step guide would be amazing, is it doable without having an oscilloscope etc?


 
  how does the 49990 in terms of soundstage compare to stock, and also in terms of bass.


----------



## nicholars

Wow not a single person has used IEM on the xonar STX


----------



## Simcon

nicholars said:


> Wow not a single person has used IEM on the xonar STX



I tried my fxd80s on the card, didn't enjoy it.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





germanium said:


> ...By the way the LME49990 spec sheet calls for at least double power supply bypasses. The STX does not have the recommended bypasses stock so may not sound as intended if mounted to the STX & as such may actually have some emphasis in the bass as a result of less well delineated high frequencies compared to if the proper bypassed were present on the STX card


 
  Thanks for a detail that I should include for the adapter-PCB requirements; shoehorning in both surface-mount (Balance/Input Comp and Output Comp) and thread-through (+Vcc and -Vss supply-bypass) ceramic capacitors may very well be a necessity and should therefore be provided for from the outset to allow dual LME49990MA's to run stably in my own STX' Line-Level Buffer position.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





bcschmerker4 said:


> Thanks for a detail that I should include for the adapter-PCB requirements; shoehorning in both surface-mount (Balance/Input Comp and Output Comp) and thread-through (+Vcc and -Vss supply-bypass) ceramic capacitors may very well be a necessity and should therefore be provided for from the outset to allow dual LME49990MA's to run stably in my own STX' Line-Level Buffer position.


 
  On the LME49990 spec sheet as well as the normal electrolytic cap near the opamp these are bypassed by 2uf solid tantalum & .1uf ceramic caps going to ground from both + & - power supply rails. Since there is no ground connection on the SOIC to DIP adaptors one cannot incorporate the bypasses on the adaptor itself. These bypasses must be done to the STX board itself in order to have the proper ground connection


----------



## Radical_53

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> Wow not a single person has used IEM on the xonar STX


 
  I had to choose between the Creative Titanium HD and the Xonar STX when I was shopping for a new card to drive my 30-40 ohm Ultrasones. The STX was said to have problems with low impedance and might end up with some mean hissing or background noise so I bought the HD instead.
  On the other hand you can always use an impedance adapter/plug in between. I had to use one with my Little Dot MK V (before I switched opamps and took away its 3rd grounding wire) so that might help in case you run into trouble.


----------



## nicholars

Quote: 





radical_53 said:


> I had to choose between the Creative Titanium HD and the Xonar STX when I was shopping for a new card to drive my 30-40 ohm Ultrasones. The STX was said to have problems with low impedance and might end up with some mean hissing or background noise so I bought the HD instead.
> On the other hand you can always use an impedance adapter/plug in between. I had to use one with my Little Dot MK V (before I switched opamps and took away its 3rd grounding wire) so that might help in case you run into trouble.


 
   
  But doesn't the Titanium HD have an ouput impedance of 35ohms which is higher than the STX (10ohm)?
   
  I thought the idea was that you have as low possible impedance for IEM... 8-10x the amount eg. 2ohms would be ideal for 16ohm headphones.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> But doesn't the Titanium HD have an ouput impedance of 35ohms which is higher than the STX?
> 
> I assume it is not possible to get an adaptor to LOWER impedance from the output?


 
  Impedance adapters do work to lower output impedance but at a huge cost to output power & extra strain on the amp drive the headphone with the impedance adapter. The stress can be enough in some cases to cause the headphone amp to fail.
   
  Some headphones need low output impedance while some even benefit from a higher output impedance such as the Etymotic research ER4P's. Etymotic research even provides an impedance adapter that adds close to 75ohms to the output impedance of the driving amp to convert the ER4p into the ER4s which is the more accurate model in their lineup. Most run of the mill headphones don't really even care that much what you drive them with as they have physical damping already applied to the back side of the driver. Sometime this is enough in & of itself to adequately control the driver & sometimes there is not enough for even a high damping factor amp to be able to control. This is due to damping factor losses due to the typical headphone cable impedance.
   
  The highest electrical damping factor could be achieved at the driver itself without relying on the amp to damp the driver  but the driver would have to incorporate said damping into the design of the driver voice coil itself which to my knowledge no body does. That would be a shorting ring attached to the voice coil former but electrically isolated from the voice coil itself. Voice coil movement would induce a current into the shorting ring which would then act as a brake to the voice coil. This action would be strongest at driver resonance as a result of the driver wanting to move the greatest distance over a given time period happens at resonance. You may get longer movements at frequencies below resonance but the greatest distance travelled over a give time period always occurs at resonance & that is what you are trying to control. A side benefit is the shorting ring would also cancel the inductance of the voice coil at high frequencies. This would result in a flat impedance curve that would essentially take the driving amp impedance out of the picture completely.


----------



## nicholars

I guess I will just have to buy one and see because as you say it varies between headphones. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Radical_53

I don't really know the output impedance of either card, just read people's experiences with it and reviews. As the Little Dot showed more or less the same problem, the adapter (which raised the impedance seen by the amp to around 150 ohm) did indeed fix the problem.


----------



## reqq

anyone tried RCA out? It got 124 SNR compared to 117 SNR headphone out. Easy to hear different?


----------



## nicholars

Quote: 





reqq said:


> anyone tried RCA out? It got 124 SNR compared to 117 SNR headphone out. Easy to hear different?


 
   
  No because that is the equivalent to a jet engine volume with a dead silent background so both are way beyond human hearing limits.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





radical_53 said:


> I don't really know the output impedance of either card, just read people's experiences with it and reviews. As the Little Dot showed more or less the same problem, the adapter (which raised the impedance seen by the amp to around 150 ohm) did indeed fix the problem.


 
   
   
  Its 10 ohms.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





reqq said:


> anyone tried RCA out? It got 124 SNR compared to 117 SNR headphone out. Easy to hear different?


 
   
   
  Impossible to hear a difference in SNR.  However, RCA out sound a bit better overall if you plug in the headphones, but obviously doesn't have nearly as much power as the headphone out.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





reqq said:


> anyone tried RCA out? It got 124 SNR compared to 117 SNR headphone out. Easy to hear different?


 
   
  Neither output has the claimed SNR unless you use maximum volume and gain, and 48 or 96 kHz sample rate instead of 44.1. With sensitive headphones/IEMs at normal listening levels, the real SNR on the headphone out can be as low as 70 dB. However, if you do not actually hear any hiss with your headphones, it is not that much of an issue. Other than having a lower maximum level, an important difference on the line out is that it has much higher output impedance (100 Ω instead of 10). That can have an audible effect on many headphones. It is also AC coupled with 220 uF capacitors, while the headphone jack can output DC.


----------



## reqq

oki thanks for the answers. I was thinking RCA out to a headphone amp for better sound. But maybe thats a waste then?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





reqq said:


> oki thanks for the answers. I was thinking RCA out to a headphone amp for better sound. But maybe thats a waste then?


 
  RCA out to headphone amp is fine. I personally would direct couple the RCA outs though as it sounds better, more open sounding.


----------



## Radical_53

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> Its 10 ohms.


 
  The STX? If the Titanium HD really has 35 ohms then that fact alone can't explain why one has problems with low impedance headphones while the other hasn't.


----------



## dioxholster

silly question but does ohms only matter for headphones? and is max  master volume recommended?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





dioxholster said:


> silly question but does ohms only matter for headphones? and is max  master volume recommended?


 
  If driving an amp computer sound cards almost always have low enough output impedance to drive any line level load through most any cable extant without any audible loss. The same cannot be said for most comsummer level home audio gear. Of coarse most low to midfi gear have enough losses built in that even the poorest cable will sound no worse than the best. Once you eliminate most of the losses inherent in these devices all the sudden you find that the cable matters, particularly the cable capacitance as it can interact with the high output impedance of said devices to reduce the liveliness of broad spectrum instruments like piano & instruments that should have a piercing quality will sound somewhat muffled such as lead electric guitars playing in the upper registers.
   
  With headphones it varies as to what works better but most generally lower output impedance is better. There are exceptions like the ER4p which really like being driven with higher output impedance of about 75ohms.


----------



## gr4474

I just got my WS99 and it works fine, but my xonar stx soundcard will not play using the FP headphone setting.  It will only play using the headphone setting.  I tried using all 3 gain settings and nothing worked.  I have to go to work and am leaving them burning in with this 49 hour track I found on this forum:https://soundcloud.com/recklessserg/sets/dubstep
   
  I removed the op amps and put them back, and I don't know if that has anything to do with it.  I flipped them around to see if I had them in wrong but no change.  For some reason the op amps want to seat deeper on one side so I left them like that, but tried it also with them evenly pressed in first.  
   
  Is my powered headphone output on my stx bad?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I just got my WS99 and it works fine, but my xonar stx soundcard will not play using the FP headphone setting.  It will only play using the headphone setting.  I tried using all 3 gain settings and nothing worked.  I have to go to work and am leaving them burning in with this 49 hour track I found on this forum:https://soundcloud.com/recklessserg/sets/dubstep
> 
> I removed the op amps and put them back, and I don't know if that has anything to do with it.  I flipped them around to see if I had them in wrong but no change.  For some reason the op amps want to seat deeper on one side so I left them like that, but tried it also with them evenly pressed in first.
> 
> Is my powered headphone output on my stx bad?


 
  Are you sure you have the front panel connector plugged in to the STX car & that it is plugged in correctly. The headphone amp provides all output functions to the front panel connection. If the headphone out works on the back panel then the front panel connections should work as well unless there problem with the relays or they are not connected.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Are you sure you have the front panel connector plugged in to the STX car & that it is plugged in correctly. The headphone amp provides all output functions to the front panel connection. If the headphone out works on the back panel then the front panel connections should work as well unless there problem with the relays or they are not connected.


 
  I don't have the front panel hooked up, but I'm connecting to the back panel.  Since the unpowered headphone setting works...is it routing the RCA output through that op amp and to the headphone jack?


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I don't have the front panel hooked up, but I'm connecting to the back panel.  Since the unpowered headphone setting works...is it routing the RCA output through that op amp and to the headphone jack?


 
  No the headphone amp bypasses the buffer opamp. The headphone amp powers the rear headphone out for all headphone gain settings including the lowest gain which is actually 6db lower than the line out gain & all front panel output functions. The buffer amp only powers the RCA connections, nothing else.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I removed the op amps and put them back, and I don't know if that has anything to do with it.  I flipped them around to see if I had them in wrong but no change.  For some reason the op amps want to seat deeper on one side so I left them like that, but tried it also with them evenly pressed in first.
> 
> Is my powered headphone output on my stx bad?


 
  Flipping the opamps around as in turning them 180 degrees if that is what you mean can damage the soundcard beyond repair. I take it you mean that you moved them to different sockets? From the sounds of it you have sound at the lowest headphone amp setting. If that is the case your headphone amp is fine & you would be having a software issue. If you are using the RCA connection to power your headphone which they will do but won't have much output then all the opamps are fine. If you get sound there but no sound out the rear headphone jack then your headphone amp is blown.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Flipping the opamps around as in turning them 180 degrees if that is what you mean can damage the soundcard beyond repair. I take it you mean that you moved them to different sockets? From the sounds of it you have sound at the lowest headphone amp setting. If that is the case your headphone amp is fine & you would be having a software issue. If you are using the RCA connection to power your headphone which they will do but won't have much output then all the opamps are fine. If you get sound there but no sound out the rear headphone jack then your headphone amp is blown.


 
  I actually did turn them 180 degrees...I did it first with the RCA op amp when upgrading to the 49990, and I got a whine, but when flipping it to the right alignment they worked fine.  When my headphone amp setting didn't work, I flipped those op amps and then flipped them back.  On the FP lowest setting ( or medium and high) i get no sound, but on just "headphone" setting I get sound.


----------



## gr4474

I forgot to mention that for headphones I'm using the headphone jack and not the RCA.  I use the RCA output when using my speakers/amp.


----------



## germanium

The FP stands for front panel which you said is not connected so there is actually no issue here then.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I actually did turn them 180 degrees...I did it first with the RCA op amp when upgrading to the 49990, and I got a whine, but when flipping it to the right alignment they worked fine.  When my headphone amp setting didn't work, I flipped those op amps and then flipped them back.  On the FP lowest setting ( or medium and high) i get no sound, but on just "headphone" setting I get sound.


 
  You were very very fortunate


----------



## CFGamescape

Subscribed


----------



## cdd3068

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I actually did turn them 180 degrees...I did it first with the RCA op amp when upgrading to the 49990, and I got a whine, but when flipping it to the right alignment they worked fine.  When my headphone amp setting didn't work, I flipped those op amps and then flipped them back.  On the FP lowest setting ( or medium and high) i get no sound, but on just "headphone" setting I get sound.


 
  Not sure where you picked up your 49990. However, the PCB should have it on there as to which way it should be oriented when putting the op-amp into your card. The little dot on op-amp that you took out, it should face in the same direction.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





germanium said:


> On the LME49990 spec sheet as well as the normal electrolytic cap near the opamp these are bypassed by 2uf solid tantalum & .1uf ceramic caps going to ground from both + & - power supply rails. Since there is no ground connection on the SOIC to DIP adaptors one cannot incorporate the bypasses on the adaptor itself. These bypasses must be done to the STX board itself in order to have the proper ground connection


 

 The tantalums I presumed to need direct connection to Analog Ground (already confirmed to be the case with the supply-filter electrolytics mounted on the STX' circuit board), whereas the ceramics from +Vcc to -Vss at the op amp supply pins apparently work just fine in practice.  I anticipated needing to study close-ups (viz., macrophotographs) of the areas around the DIP sockets to see what room is available for retrofitting the tantalums.


----------



## gr4474

I don't know if I damaged the FP headphone outputs...but I'm swapping it out while I still can.  
   
  Edit: meaning shipping back and getting replacement.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





cdd3068 said:


> Not sure where you picked up your 49990. However, the PCB should have it on there as to which way it should be oriented when putting the op-amp into your card. The little dot on op-amp that you took out, it should face in the same direction.


 
  Thanks, but I don't know how I could have known that.  Now I have a pic of both stock op amps and upgraded in the correct position for future reference.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> I don't know if I damaged the FP headphone outputs...but I'm swapping it out while I still can.
> 
> Edit: meaning shipping back and getting replacement.


 
  You did not connect your front panel connection therefore you will not get sound out the FP headphone. You need to connect the front panel connection from your PC case then plug your headphone into you headphone connection provided by the PC case in order to hear anything from any of the FP headphone settings. There is no problem with the card since you did not do this


----------



## iMusicLover

HI guys Asus Xonar Essence STX will great with Grado SR225i ? Maybe something have STX and SR225i combo. Please post impressions.


----------



## mindbomb

Has anyone looked into flexbass?
  What does it do if there is no subwoofer, just throw away the low frequencies with small headphones?
  Does nothing with large headphones? Or does it mix in LFE if present?
  And what does it do if you have a subwoofer and there already an LFE channel, does it add to it or do nothing? - I just checked this one, it does nothing if there already is an LFE channel.


----------



## gr4474

germanium said:


> You did not connect your front panel connection therefore you will not get sound out the FP headphone. You need to connect the front panel connection from your PC case then plug your headphone into you headphone connection provided by the PC case in order to hear anything from any of the FP headphone settings. There is no problem with the card since you did not do this




Crap I just shipped it out and the replacement was already shipped out today. What a waist. Thanks for the info.


----------



## gr4474

Here's what the manual says about the REAR headphone port:
"Connect your headphones to this port.
NOTE:
- DO NOT connect your speakers to the headphone out port.
The possible high driving power may cause damage to your speakers.
- To prevent damage to your headphone, before the connection, adjust the headphone impedance settings in the Xonar Essence STX Audio Center to match your headphone impedance."

It looks like FP settings should work. I'll try the replacement either way.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





gr4474 said:


> Here's what the manual says about the REAR headphone port:
> "Connect your headphones to this port.
> NOTE:
> - DO NOT connect your speakers to the headphone out port.
> ...


 
  You may ant to read your manual further as there is a front panel headphone out too that has all the same gain levels as the rear panel connection that is driven from the same amp as the rear panel headphone connection. This connection also uses that same amp to drive a speaker amp but I do not recommend that if you have a high gain D.C. coupled amp as there is a fair amount of D.C. on it. D.C. coupled amps will amplify at full gain any D.C. that goes into it.


----------



## belerofonte981

Hi,
   
   
  i'm a new member. i had read this topic for 2 weeks, now i think that i have the 60% complete 
  I have the stx connected to a tube amplifier -> dali ikon 6. The headphones that i'm using are the audio technica w1000x.
  I found that the sound is good, but with the analogs outputs i feel the highs a bit harsh, i want a big deep too, and bigger soundstage.
  After read the 60% of this topic i 'm thinking in change the opamps. 2xlme49860 and 49990 for bufer, what do you think about this convination?
  Can the soundcard be damaged by the 49990  due to non ground connection on the soic to dip adaptors?
   
  Thanks for your time and sorry for me poor English language.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





belerofonte981 said:


> Can the soundcard be damaged by the 49990  due to non ground connection on the soic to dip adaptors?
> 
> Thanks for your time and sorry for me poor English language.


 
  In a word no. No opamp has on package ground. They all rely on the circuit board for grounding. As such the power supply mods I recommend are always done to  the circuit board, not the opamp or opamp adapter


----------



## gr4474

I want to connect my sound card to the front panel.  There is a HD Audio front panel connection and AC '97...both on the same wire.  Which of these would I connect to the sound card?
   
  Edit: Nevermind! HD Audio works


----------



## gr4474

What is the best gain setting for WS99? Less than 64 ohms...64- 300...or 300-600 ohms?  The headphones are rated at 37 ohms.


----------



## nicholars

I got a Xonar STX last week and I must say I am actually very impressed with it. I bought it because I wanted something to use with my IEM's that had a headphone jack but just to experiment I plugged in the RCA out to my amplifier and did some A/B volume matched testing between my Dacmagic and the Xonar STX.....
   
  I actually prefer the sound of the STX.... They both sound pretty similar and the differences are pretty subtle but the STX sounds cleaner, smoother and transparent. The Dacmagic is a bit bassier and maybe a bit more dynamic but I would say overall it actually sounds worse than the STX. Maybe it is the nice clean power from the PC high quality power supply but it does sound very good indeed... Much better than I expected. The headphone amp sounds good as well.
   
  Looks like I am going to sell my Xonar D2 and also my external DAC and just use the STX so thats saved me over £100 and also sounds better! I think I will just keep the STX until I can afford a headphone amp / DAC combo which actually improves on the sound.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> I think I will just keep the STX *until I can afford a headphone amp / DAC combo which actually improves* on the sound.


 
   
  You'll have to spend quite a lot of money for that, at least 3-4 times as much as the STX costs. I got the Nuforce HDP, and find the ST superior in every single imaginable way, even in the headphone amp department. And that costs about 3 times more than the ST.   The best bet is to just fine tune the sound signature by changing op-amps in the STX, because from a technical standpoint, you cant improve much on it, regardless of price. I barely find the MF M1DAC superior, if not inferior actually, and that costs 800$ or more.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> I got a Xonar STX last week and I must say I am actually very impressed with it. I bought it because I wanted something to use with my IEM's that had a headphone jack but just to experiment I plugged in the RCA out to my amplifier and did some A/B volume matched testing between my Dacmagic and the Xonar STX.....
> 
> I actually prefer the sound of the STX.... They both sound pretty similar and the differences are pretty subtle but the STX sounds cleaner, smoother and transparent. The Dacmagic is a bit bassier and maybe a bit more dynamic but I would say overall it actually sounds worse than the STX. Maybe it is the nice clean power from the PC high quality power supply but it does sound very good indeed... Much better than I expected. The headphone amp sounds good as well.
> 
> Looks like I am going to sell my Xonar D2 and also my external DAC and just use the STX so thats saved me over £100 and also sounds better! I think I will just keep the STX until I can afford a headphone amp / DAC combo which actually improves on the sound.


 
  I upgraded to the 49990 op amps for both RCA and headphone output and it blew me away.  (1 needed for RCA and 2 for headphones)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190762476231&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160#ht_1039wt_1397


----------



## nicholars

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> You'll have to spend quite a lot of money for that, at least 3-4 times as much as the STX costs. I got the Nuforce HDP, and find the ST superior in every single imaginable way, even in the headphone amp department. And that costs about 3 times more than the ST.   The best bet is to just fine tune the sound signature by changing op-amps in the STX, because from a technical standpoint, you cant improve much on it, regardless of price. I barely find the MF M1DAC superior, if not inferior actually, and that costs 800$ or more.


 
   
  I think you may be right that actually the STX is superior in actual objective sound quality compared to a lot of external DAC's. Most of the arguements for external DAC's being superior are theoretical anyway and generally not an issue with the STX due to shielding etc. Also I would think that the high quality Antec power supply I have in my PC is actually better than most power supplies in external dacs, especially the power brick type ones.
   
  Is the Headphone amp on the STX actually any good? I have not tried it with proper headphones like a Hifiman HE400.
   
*Also is there a fix for the hissing at 44.1khz on headphones?*


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> I got a Xonar STX last week and I must say I am actually very impressed with it. I bought it because I wanted something to use with my IEM's that had a headphone jack but just to experiment I plugged in the RCA out to my amplifier and did some A/B volume matched testing between my Dacmagic and the Xonar STX.....
> 
> I actually prefer the sound of the STX.... They both sound pretty similar and the differences are pretty subtle but the STX sounds cleaner, smoother and transparent. The Dacmagic is a bit bassier and maybe a bit more dynamic but I would say overall it actually sounds worse than the STX. Maybe it is the nice clean power from the PC high quality power supply but it does sound very good indeed... Much better than I expected. The headphone amp sounds good as well.
> 
> Looks like I am going to sell my Xonar D2 and also my external DAC and just use the STX so thats saved me over £100 and also sounds better! I think I will just keep the STX until I can afford a headphone amp / DAC combo which actually improves on the sound.


 

 Congrats on an excellent audio-card purchase.  I use the XONAR® Essence™ STX myself, and I found the built-in Sony®/Philips® Digital Interface™ useful for several tasks, particularly streaming PCM for recording live audio on external equipment (e.g., a hot rod LinUX box packing GNOME® Sound Recorder, the LAME™ Codec Collection, and other libraries to properly digitize the incoming audio from my XONAR®-equipped Asus® CM1630 via the LinUX box's Creative Laboratories® SB0250 I/O Drive and SB0350 PCI 2.2 audio card).
   
  The S/P-DIF™ input, which accepts coaxial (RCA) and optical (3.5mm) cables, can also be used to drive an external DAC; this is useful for A/B'ing a potential-upgrade DAC/amplifier against the stock Brown Burr®/Texas Instruments® PCM1792 dual DAC and Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 dual power amp on the STX - useful for weeding out unsatisfactory candidates.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> I think you may be right that actually the STX is superior in actual objective sound quality compared to a lot of external DAC's. Most of the arguements for external DAC's being superior are theoretical anyway and generally not an issue with the STX due to shielding etc. Also I would think that the high quality Antec power supply I have in my PC is actually better than most power supplies in external dacs, especially the power brick type ones.
> 
> Is the Headphone amp on the STX actually any good? I have not tried it with proper headphones like a Hifiman HE400.
> 
> *Also is there a fix for the hissing at 44.1khz on headphones?*


 
   
  I left my shield off to help cool the 49990 op amps.  I don't notice any noise or interference so I think it's better for me to try and keep it cool.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> I think you may be right that actually the STX is superior in actual objective sound quality compared to a lot of external DAC's. Most of the arguements for external DAC's being superior are theoretical anyway and generally not an issue with the STX due to shielding etc. Also I would think that the high quality Antec power supply I have in my PC is actually better than most power supplies in external dacs, especially the power brick type ones.
> 
> Is the Headphone amp on the STX actually any good? I have not tried it with proper headphones like a Hifiman HE400.
> 
> *Also is there a fix for the hissing at 44.1khz on headphones?*


 

 Can't help with the 44.1 kHz hiss, but I _can_ vouch for Antec®, having retrofitted a TruePower® 750 Blue (in for a mis-built, as it turns out, LiteOn® 300W PSU - no +3.3VDC to the SATA, a specvio) to my Asus® CM1630-06 Essentio Series™ mid-tower; it's a perfect fit for my rig as upgraded with Asus® EAH6850DC video.  No noise contributed by the PSU, and the STX' shielding keeps the RFI from the rest of my 'puter at bay.  I've yet to find a headset for putting the Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 headphone amp to a proper test (I've a fallback plan for the Heil Sound® Pro Set™ iC, which packs 200Ω earpieces, in the event that I cannot score worthier hardware), but it has fed my underimpedance headsets and earsets just fine so far.
   
  Antec® has several PSU's for scaled requirements, and all of their 600+W units pack multiple +12VDC busses for independent feed of the motherboard, master-processing unit (4- or 8-pin ATX/EPS), and up to six video adapters depending on model.  The TruePower® Quattro™ 1200 packs six +12VDC busses and can feed two high-powered video cards (e.g., dual Asus® ROG® Matrix™ 7970's) in CrossFireX without breaking a sweat; the High Current Pro™ 1200 can drive three high-power or six medium-power video cards.


----------



## nicholars

What is the op amp with the smoothest possible treble and minimal sibilance. TBH the stock setup seems pretty damn smooth already to me but if it can be improved then I am interested....
   
  Any suggestions for op amps for the analog output stage smoothest possible treble, warm mids and good bass.


----------



## gr4474

Quote: 





nicholars said:


> What is the op amp with the smoothest possible treble and minimal sibilance. TBH the stock setup seems pretty damn smooth already to me but if it can be improved then I am interested....
> 
> Any suggestions for op amps for the analog output stage smoothest possible treble, warm mids and good bass.


 
  read post # 4403


----------



## MrHeadphone

Hello Everyone,

simple question i hope you guys can help me out with.

Does the Xonar Essence STX deliver better audio quality from the line out or headphone out for my headphones (DT990Pro)?
People say it is recommended to plug headhones into the lineout (rca) but im not sure about it, why would the card have an extra headphoneout then?
Is it true that the line out has an headphone amp as well?

Due to the Soundcars Specification

Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted) (Front-out) :
124 dB
Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted) (Headphone-out) :
117 dB
Input Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted) :
118 dB

I can tell that the line out has a better SNR then the headphone out.
So where to plug in my headphones best?

Thanks in andvance for your answeres


----------



## Theodore

Hi.
  I ask if it is useful to  swap the clock of a Essence ST card, to a  precision _clock_, to minimize audio jitter.I have bought  one,but I have not put it on,because I have read that it is very difficult.
  Is there somebody,who has done it?
  Some video perhaps?


----------



## Redshift Rider

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> I can tell that the line out has a better SNR then the headphone out.
> So where to plug in my headphones best?
> 
> Thanks in andvance for your answeres


 
   
       Plug your awesome headphones into heaphone out so you can use soundcard's built in amp.
       Line out does not use internal amp, but it may be useful to you in the future if you buy better, separate amp.
       Then you would go:
       soundcard line out ---> new amp --> headphones


----------



## MrHeadphone

redshift rider said:


> Plug your awesome headphones into heaphone out so you can use soundcard's built in amp.
> Line out does not use internal amp, but it may be useful to you in the future if you buy better, separate amp.
> Then you would go:
> soundcard line out ---> new amp --> headphones




Thanks. So ill go with the headphone Out.


----------



## belerofonte981

Finally the op amps arrived 1x lme 49990 and 2xlme 49860
   
  First, i started with the 9990 in the buffer section, result: more detail, less  harsh in highs, not more bass but punchier. 
  Then i put the 49860 in the i/V section: more pleasant highs, more controled, but less bass, much less. By now i 'm a bit dissapointed with these, but OP found that after a break in period the bass was better
  I found the sound stage about the same with this new opamps.
  Another point is that the lme 49990 runs too hot, similar to the motherboard chipset, i want to try 2 more in the i/V section but i 'm afraid that the heat or the oscilation problem may cause damages in the sound card or in the rest of the equipment. Anyone using 3x49990?
  My computer, with a standar psu is connected to a apc ups, can an psu upgrade help to get a more stable, less hotter, 49990. Can the psu affect to the SQ here?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Magister Mundus

Hello people, just wanted to give my first impressions on replacing the 3x stock op amps (JRC2114DD) with 3x LM49720NA...
   
  What I have noticed after 20 minutes: (including the time to install the op-amps)
   
  BASS:
  + Can hear the bass strings more (I can't really describe this, but the "thin" sounds from bass, like when you hear a bass without amplification)
  + More emphasis in upper bass (around 250hz I think)
  - Less emphasis in low-bass, sound is somehow lighter(20hz-100hz I think)
   
  DRUMS:
   
  +Don't really know the name of that part, but the part of the drum kit that you "kick" with your right foot... the bassy thing... I think I can hear it easier
   
  OVERALL:
  + Less harsh
  - Midrange MAY be a little more recessive (or I'm tired, can't tell for sure)
  + More instrument separation
   
  If I had to choose two of the above characteristics that I am really sure things changed in that department, it would be these:
  "+ Can hear the bass strings more (I can't really describe this, but the "thin" sounds from bass, like when you hear a bass without amplification)"
  This is really not placebo, I am totallly hearing more bass... I have some bass hearing loss ( can't hear 20hz, only 30hz), I don't know why, so I can tell things improved
   
  "+ More instrument separation"
  Also true.
   
   
  Well, just my two cents.


----------



## belerofonte981

Anyboy here with  3 x lme 49990 that can help?
  Thanks


----------



## nicholars

From what I read on here it seems like pretty much the best op amps are just the ones which come with the STX... This makes sense I guess because the STX was designed to use them. Correct me if I am wrong but what I have read suggests very minor inprovements at best.


----------



## belerofonte981

Nicholars,
  term like "best", "better"... are always very subjective, it depends a lot from other aspects, more into the sound world. For me, change the opamp from the buffer with the lme 49990 made a big difference, better for me, more defined bass, better highs... the same when i changed the yamaha amplifier for the cayin or when i changed the cambidge audio interconects for the mit avt3.
  But a change can be "better" for me and mi rig and not for you/ your.
  I asked to frugaphile about the heat from the opamp, he said that usually it runs warm, but if it is hot ,maybe it is oscillating, i dont know what that means, i dont nokw it there is any risk for the soundcard, amplifier, speakers... so i want to know the opinion of those people that are runing 3xlme49990, anyone?
  And the other question was if a better PSU can help to this problem or can improve the SQ. i 'm runing a cheap psu conected a great APC UPS.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## budi

Added this card to the Sound Cards Massdrop poll! Vote it up!

 https://www.massdrop.com/vote/sound-cards-audio-cards


----------



## Stanley Pain 00

Quote: 





belerofonte981 said:


> Anyboy here with  3 x lme 49990 that can help?
> Thanks


 
   
  I have 3 installed now, however I don't use line out but I'd assume you'd get similar performance from Line Out as you see from the Headphone Amp side of things.
   
   
  With my Denon 6500s and 650s the 49990s make a HUGE difference. MUCH better soundstage, tighter base, less sparkly highs.


----------



## Triggster

I received this card on Friday and my Phillips Fidelio X1 headphones, I also got the DGX for comparison but I think the STX is a definitely better card when either actually works.
   
  So far I've tested both cards, the DGX on beta drivers for windows 8 and the STX on beta,release and unified drivers on w8 and then the unified drivers on w7 and they all produce the same results: the computer will freeze and hang indefinitely. The beta drivers caused it to cash quickly (5-15 minutes), the release took a fair bit longer (hours) and the unified was in between. 
   
  Initially on w8 I thought it could be the cause of my problems so a fresh install of w7 and nothing has improved.I also get the following message with the STX installed during boot up: 
  00 usb mass storage devices found and configured .oot menu.
  whcih will cause a hang until the computer is restarted, some times it takes several times. I don't have any external usb storage devices plugged into my computer either.
   
   
   
  Have I got two dodgy cards or is there some incompatibility with my headphones or even motherboard?


----------



## MrHeadphone

Quote: 





triggster said:


> I received this card on Friday and my Phillips Fidelio X1 headphones, I also got the DGX for comparison but I think the STX is a definitely better card when either actually works.
> 
> So far I've tested both cards, the DGX on beta drivers for windows 8 and the STX on beta,release and unified drivers on w8 and then the unified drivers on w7 and they all produce the same results: the computer will freeze and hang indefinitely. The beta drivers caused it to cash quickly (5-15 minutes), the release took a fair bit longer (hours) and the unified was in between.
> 
> ...


 
   
  In your case i would look if you have installed the correct motherboard drivers, like chipset, usb, sata, all this kinds of drivers. Maybe you want to consider a fresh install of windows again.
  Try to turn off the onboard soundcard in the bios menu. Maybe the onboard sound interrupts the soundcard.
   
  It is more likely your computer causing the trouble then the soundcards. I dont know about windows 8 though, might be something with the drivers from asus as well.


----------



## MrHeadphone

Hey everyone!
   
  The STX cant do 5.1 i know, only by connecting it digitally with coax or spdif it will do 5.1.
   
  Is there any difference beteen 5.1 from a STX digitally vs 5.1 from a soundcard with actual 5.1 support analog out?
  Im wondering maybe ill upgrade later in a 5.1 sound system, and if the digital out from the STX is just as good as a 5.1 supported soundcard ?


----------



## Gustav Mahler

Regarding the op amps........installed 3 muses 1s that I got through ali express about six weeks ago..........they took a while to open up but represent a good improvement....audio image steps back slightly from the front  of the speakers and becomes more spacious....better throughout the frequency range from organ pedals to triangles and cymbals
   
  stx out to music first classic preamp to bryston 3b sst to theil 22s
   
  Cheers!
   
  Gus


----------



## Triggster

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> In your case i would look if you have installed the correct motherboard drivers, like chipset, usb, sata, all this kinds of drivers. Maybe you want to consider a fresh install of windows again.
> Try to turn off the onboard soundcard in the bios menu. Maybe the onboard sound interrupts the soundcard.
> 
> It is more likely your computer causing the trouble then the soundcards. I dont know about windows 8 though, might be something with the drivers from asus as well.


 
   
  Already rolled back to W7 from W8, made no difference.
   
  Tried updating all possible drivers tonight and flashed the bios, made no difference. Disabled on board sound, also made no difference.
   
  Sort of at wits end here, don't know what to do other than send the card back for a replacement or use it an an excuse for an upgrade.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





triggster said:


> Already rolled back to W7 from W8, made no difference.
> 
> Tried updating all possible drivers tonight and flashed the bios, made no difference. Disabled on board sound, also made no difference.
> 
> Sort of at wits end here, don't know what to do other than send the card back for a replacement or use it an an excuse for an upgrade.


 
   
  Burn a Linux Live distribution to a DVD or USB and run from there, if it works fine in Linux it's Windows/Software-related otherwise it may be a hardware fault mabe the mainboard or RAM ... faulty hardware can be identified using the Ultimate Boot CD/DVD.
   
  Also, I suppose you have reset the bios or UEFI to "optimized default" so you don't have any weird settings left in there, and if it's a modern HDD you should choose AHCI for the HD-drives in the bios before you install WIndows since most bioses/UEFIs default to IDE.
   
  Choosing the right pcie-slot for the soundcard can be essential on some mobos because of the respective vendors sometimes choosing a strange configuration for the pcie-lanes.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote:


wir3d said:


> 2x: 2xLME49710HA on DIP8 by Scorch (excellent craftmanship)
> 2x: 2xOPA827AID on DIP8 by Scorch (excellent craftmanship)


   
  on DIP8 by Scorch
   
  Where are these from ? , im looking for an adaptor before i get the HA's , cheers


----------



## mrlimbo

Old setup 
   
  Xonar DGX > Little Dot I+ > Senn HD600
   
  New setup
   
  Essence STX > Little Dot I+ > Senn HD600  
   
  Well my first night listening to the STX and im not happy with the sound at all , sound stage has decreased alarmingly , not sure how thats even possible , im actually forcing myself to listen to it , fatigue is very bad , didnt experience this at all with the cheap DGX , this is from the headphone out , so will have to try the rca out , i will say that its interference free, dead quiet , but thats about the only good thing i can say , the music is really not involving .
   
  The Little Dot is a recent addition , and since using it , ive been astounded with everything ive listened to , and that is with the stock parts (opamps + tubes) , now its like ive gone back to my old setup (before the little dot), a very flat sound with very little sound stage.


----------



## e6600

try using line out instead
  hp out uses the sound cards amp, so youre really amping twice


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





e6600 said:


> try using line out instead
> hp out uses the sound cards amp, so youre really amping twice


 
  Hi , thanks , i intend to , but i was amping twice with the DGX with no detriment , will try the rca out next , but im now really missing the DGX and actually enjoy listening to music , whereas with STX ive stopped after an hour and my ears are still hurting !! think i'll be moving it on !!!


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Burn a Linux Live distribution to a DVD or USB and run from there, if it works fine in Linux it's Windows/Software-related otherwise it may be a hardware fault mabe the mainboard or RAM ... faulty hardware can be identified using the Ultimate Boot CD/DVD.
> 
> Also, I suppose you have reset the bios or UEFI to "optimized default" so you don't have any weird settings left in there, and if it's a modern HDD you should choose AHCI for the HD-drives in the bios before you install WIndows since most bioses/UEFIs default to IDE.
> 
> Choosing the right pcie-slot for the soundcard can be essential on some mobos because of the respective vendors sometimes choosing a strange configuration for the pcie-lanes.


 

 To vouch for xelzo, the Advanced LinUX Sound Architecture Project now supports the Asus® XONAR® family (except possibly the ROG® XONAR® Phoebus™) with a driver in Release 1.0.26: snd-virtuoso.  On my CM1630-06 (with 750W Antec® PSU) running Windows®, I was forced to use the inboardmost PCI-e slot on the stock M5A78LT-M/CSM, as both legacy PCI slots had to be kept empty for the cooling air the EAH6850 DirectCU® card (PCI-Express x16) requires, but I found this to be a sonic non-issue due to the radio-grade shielding on the XONAR®.  I plan to use snd-virtuoso when, having purchased a new system for Microsoft® Windows® 8ight™ Service Pack 1 64-bit 8.0.10001 (MultiProcessor Kernel 6.2.9201) by that time, I replace the current Windows® 7.0.8001 on the CM1630 with Ubuntu® 14.04.1-LTS, AMD64 Edition.


----------



## badsykes

Hello
   
  I have Xonar Essence ST card (default Opamps) paired with ATH M50 on headphone side and Altec lansing 5021 on speakers side..I like more orchestral music, ambient music, instrumental..With current setup the bass is not very deep but i don't mind..I am thinking of changing the opamps to further improve my headphone music experience..I need Opamps suited for the music types above...
  Do you guys recommend 2x LME49710 for this setup ?
   
Thanks


----------



## mowglycdb

you mean LME49710HA on the buffer right?
   
  I have LME49710HA in buffer  and LME49720HA in I/V.
   
  LME49170HA has more bass than LME49970 and stock (but still is bright), has more breath and detail ( I think it's faster than stock), it's somewhat like OPA627, though the OPA has better mid-bass, not sure if more refined. Maybe pair it with another I/V opamps?
   
  I've never had the MTH-50   I have the AD900.


----------



## connieflyer

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Old setup
> 
> Xonar DGX > Little Dot I+ > Senn HD600
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I fail to see the need for amping the signal from the stx and then thru the little dot, I am running out of the stx soundcard's headphone out to HD 650's and get great fidelity and more than enough volume to make my ears bleed, if I wanted to that is.  Something is not set quite right or a bad card, but try taking the little dot out of the loop.


----------



## badsykes

> you mean LME49710HA on the buffer right?
> 
> I have LME49710HA in buffer  and LME49720HA in I/V.
> 
> ...


 
   
 Never tried any opamp...I am just asking around Opamps for improving instrumental music..Mids and Highs..I want to improve both (Headphone side and Speaker side) but mostly headphone side as the speakers may need improved themselves and not worth the hassle..


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





connieflyer said:


> I fail to see the need for amping the signal from the stx and then thru the little dot, I am running out of the stx soundcard's headphone out to HD 650's and get great fidelity and more than enough volume to make my ears bleed, if I wanted to that is.  Something is not set quite right or a bad card, but try taking the little dot out of the loop.


 
  Hi , well the little dot 1+ is not that powerful but it worked wonderfully with the head amp of the DGX , ive now set it up from the rca out and will give that a go tonight , dont want to take the little dot out of the loop as the sound from it is fantastic , i just wanted a better source to feed it , i just thought the STX would be similiar but better than the DGX , but obviously ive not got it set up right or it doesnt suit my ears !


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





badsykes said:


> I have Xonar Essence ST card (default Op-amps) paired with ATH M50 on headphone side and Altec lansing 5021 on speakers side..I like more orchestral music, ambient music, instrumental..With current setup the bass is not very deep but i don't mind..I am thinking of changing the op-amps to further improve my headphone music experience..I need Op-amps suited for the music types above...
> Do you guys recommend 2x LME49710 for this setup ?


 
  I would say to sell off the ATH-M50 and put cash towards new headphones.
  The Audio Technica ATH-A900X are going for as low as $170


----------



## badsykes

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would say to sell off the ATH-M50 and put cash towards new headphones.
> The Audio Technica ATH-A900X are going for as low as $170


 
  I leave in Europe and a brand new ATH-A900X is around 520$ and a brand new ATH M50 are around 220$ ....On the other hands in either case the Opamp exchange will improve the sound and is cheaper than buying a new pair ATH A900X...


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Hi , thanks , i intend to , but i was amping twice with the DGX with no detriment , will try the rca out next , but im now really missing the DGX and actually enjoy listening to music , whereas with STX ive stopped after an hour and my ears are still hurting !! think i'll be moving it on !!!


 
  Well using the rca out is much much better , and seems just as loud , the sound stage is better , but still not as good as with DGX (not sure how thats possible , may swap the old card back in to check it out ) the clarity of STX is very noticeable , you can almost hear the blankness of the silence , it can almost be frightening ! 
   
  What is the best setting to have the volume in the Asus Audio Center ? is it still best practice to have the volumes on max all along the line , and have the final (amp) control the master volume ?
   
  Many thanks


----------



## RushNerd

I REALLY hate self-promotion, but I have one of these for sale for $125 (ST PCI model), I posted it in the amplification FS forum, but there isn't really a good section to put it under. I'm sure someone wouldn't mind a cheap one anyway, they have only gotten more expensive for used ones on amazon since I got mine


----------



## Nemeske88

Dear Fourmers,
   
  What do you think, if the Power Factor Correction in Switch Mode Power Supplies is favorable as for powering the molex of this card? Has anyone done comparisons between passive-PFC and Active PFCs ones?


----------



## mrlimbo

Im looking to make the sound stage bigger and also to lessen the brightness/harshness on the higher range , is this possible with opamps ?
  Really want to make this card work for me , so looking into all ways to get it to work with my ears 
   
  Thank you


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





redshift rider said:


> Then went from LME49990 to AD797BR (bought them from audjade_chn) two weeks ago.


 
  Hi , would the below link be the correct ones ? is the AD79BR a dual chip ? would i need just 2 or is it best to use 3 ? , i use the RCA out only !
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mod-2x-AD797BR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-NE5534-/350790000458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51acb69f4a
   
  Thanks


----------



## MrHeadphone

Can PLEASE somone tell what is wrong here?
   
  When i watch a 5.1 movie for example with the XOnar Stx, and turn the channels to 6 in the driver menu i can hear static noises out of my headphones. This happens only in videos or games and the noise is very clear to hear when i pause a video. So there is somehting wrong with the channels. When i set them to 4 or 6 or 8 doesnt matter, all above 2 channels results in a static noise production.? I changed the card many times so it is not a defect on the card.
   
  I tried creative soundblaster zxr, and i could not hear any noises there. So i can tell that it has nothing to do with my pcie slots.
   
  Can someone with a xonar card please test this by setting driver to 8 channel mode, turning up the volume, and open a video and pause it.
   
  If im the only one with this noise, what can i do?
   
  PS: I tried unixonar drivers, didnt change anything.


----------



## stv014

It is most likely a driver problem if 2-channel mode works fine.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> Can PLEASE somone tell what is wrong here?
> 
> When i watch a 5.1 movie for example with the XOnar Stx, and turn the channels to 6 in the driver menu i can hear static noises out of my headphones. This happens only in videos or games and the noise is very clear to hear when i pause a video. So there is somehting wrong with the channels. When i set them to 4 or 6 or 8 doesnt matter, all above 2 channels results in a static noise production.? I changed the card many times so it is not a defect on the card.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   
  Turn off SVN in the driver interface.


----------



## MrHeadphone

derbigpr said:


> Turn off SVN in the driver interface.




Thanks but i Never turned it on.
So if you have a xonar, can u Check if this is Happening to you as well please? 

1. Open a random video (youtube)
2. Pause it
3. go to driver and Set Maximum Volume 

Well yes if you Turn on svn that amplifies the noise im Talking about much more.
But im having this noise without svn, Not very loud but still present.

I had a xonar dx and stx now both have the Same issue.

So if you guys can Tell me if you have this as well, i can stop searching for a Solution.

Thx


----------



## MrHeadphone

No One?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Hi , would the below link be the correct ones ? is the AD79BR a dual chip ? would i need just 2 or is it best to use 3 ? , i use the RCA out only !
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mod-2x-AD797BR-SOIC-to-DIP-Op-amp-replace-NE5534-/350790000458?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51acb69f4a
> 
> Thanks


 
  Correct seller, wrong listing.
  look up
 AD797BR Dual to Mono Op amp   
  The RCA output uses all three op-amps (headphone out only two), so might be safer to replace all three.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> Thanks but i Never turned it on.
> So if you have a xonar, can u Check if this is Happening to you as well please?
> 1. Open a random video (youtube)
> 2. Pause it
> ...


 
  Did you turn off "disable" the motherboard's built in audio, in the BIOS?


----------



## MrHeadphone

purpleangel said:


> Did you turn off "disable" the motherboard's built in audio, in the BIOS?




Hey purple, Yes i did. Onboard is Off. With the zxr there was no Noise whatsoever, only with all asus cards, dx, stx i got this. Maybe it has to do with the extra power the cards Need?

But im curious if im the only One with that Little Noise. 
Can u please Tell me if you got a Little Background Noise when you Pause a Video and max the Volume?.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> Hey purple, Yes i did. Onboard is Off. With the zxr there was no Noise whatsoever, only with all asus cards, dx, stx i got this. Maybe it has to do with the extra power the cards Need?
> 
> But im curious if im the only One with that Little Noise.
> Can u please Tell me if you got a Little Background Noise when you Pause a Video and max the Volume?.


 
  I'll check when I get back home.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Correct seller, wrong listing.
> look up
> AD797BR Dual to Mono Op amp
> The RCA output uses all three op-amps (headphone out only two), so might be safer to replace all three.


 
  Hi , many thanks , found the correct one , i think , but there a bit expensive , especially to buy 3 !!!
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261176178327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf503697


----------



## mrlimbo

Ok i still need help LOL is this the correct THS4032CD to use  ???  thanks 
   
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1PCS-TI-THS4032CD-THS4032-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/221070742557?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378d7d41d


----------



## MrHeadphone

purpleangel said:


> I'll check when I get back home.




That would be Great thanks.


----------



## MrHeadphone

People i really need to know if there is anyone with the same issue as me. I still have time to return the Soundcard.
   
  Please let me know if you Xonar owners can hear a static noise coming trhough your headphones or not, when you pause a video.
   
  1. Set Xonar driver to 8 channel mode
  2. Open a random video (youtube f.e.)
 3. Pause it
 4. Set Maximum Volume to hear a possible noise.
   
  If anyone can hear it let me know, so ill return the card immediately. otherwise ill check for a solution.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> People i really need to know if there is anyone with the same issue as me. I still have time to return the Soundcard.
> 
> Please let me know if you Xonar owners can hear a static noise coming trhough your headphones or not, when you pause a video.
> 
> ...


 
  LOL think you better return it , as it seems your trying your best to find a fault with it , ie 4. Set Maximum Volume to hear a possible noise.


----------



## MrHeadphone

mrlimbo said:


> LOL think you better return it , as it seems your trying your best to find a fault with it , ie 4. Set Maximum Volume to hear a possible noise.




Im Not trying to find a fault, im trying to whether find a Solution to get rid of that noise, or One of you can Tell me that you have this noise as well so it has nothing to do with my pc or powersupply.

Mrlimbo you would really help here if you could just open a videodo for a Second and Tell me your results.


----------



## mrlimbo

When you say set to max volume , do you mean on the video or system on max volume ? mine is through an tube amp as well , so cant replicate your setup !
  Quote:


mrheadphone said:


> Im Not trying to find a fault, im trying to whether find a Solution to get rid of that noise, or One of you can Tell me that you have this noise as well so it has nothing to do with my pc or powersupply.
> 
> Mrlimbo you would really help here if you could just open a videodo for a Second and Tell me your results.


----------



## MrHeadphone

Thank you for trying.

I Mean max Volume on System ( or driver) but i have plugged my headphones directly to headphone Out.


----------



## MrHeadphone

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


>


 
  Cant you try it with the headphone out as well please? You will earn a lot of positive karma


----------



## CFGamescape

mrlimbo said:


> Old setup
> 
> Xonar DGX > Little Dot I+ > Senn HD600
> 
> ...




Sounds like maybe your gain is set at default?


----------



## CFGamescape

mrheadphone said:


> People i really need to know if there is anyone with the same issue as me. I still have time to return the Soundcard.
> 
> Please let me know if you Xonar owners can hear a static noise coming trhough your headphones or not, when you pause a video.
> 
> ...




You shouldn't have the volume on max. Set gain higher and lower volume.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





cfgamescape said:


> You shouldn't have the volume on max. Set gain higher and lower volume.


 
  I agree , to me the scenario is a unrealistic one anyway , youtube @ 8 channels @ full volume and then pause and you might hear a noise ? , as i originally said if you try hard enough to find a fault with the card , eventually you will !!


----------



## MrHeadphone

Quote: 





cfgamescape said:


> You shouldn't have the volume on max. Set gain higher and lower volume.


 
  Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> I agree , to me the scenario is a unrealistic one anyway , youtube @ 8 channels @ full volume and then pause and you might hear a noise ? , as i originally said if you try hard enough to find a fault with the card , eventually you will !!


 

 I actually know that i shouldnt set the volume on max, my question was if one of you guys can hear a noise as well, when you have that setup as described earlier. Because i can hear that noise even on a normal setup (2channel) with 50% volume. These extreme settings (8channel + max volume) was just to make sure whether you can or cant hear a noise.
   
  But i already have found out on a nother forum that this noise I was talking about is a Xonar thing, almost every user with a DX or STX on that forum agreed with me that they can actually hear a noise out of their headphones.
  So thanks anyway.


----------



## Redshift Rider

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Hi , many thanks , found the correct one , i think , but there a bit expensive , especially to buy 3 !!!
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261176178327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf503697


 
   
   
  Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Im looking to make the sound stage bigger and also to lessen the brightness/harshness on the higher range , is this possible with opamps ?
> Really want to make this card work for me , so looking into all ways to get it to work with my ears
> 
> Thank you


 
   
  There is another ,cheaper option, for you to consider. You could replace two JRCs with two LME49720 and leave the default LM4562 in the buffer position. Some people even got them from national semiconductor as free samples, but i don't know the way 
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49720NA-Dual-OpAmp-Audiophile-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160536400278 ---> just an example, i think they could be found cheaper.


----------



## Redshift Rider

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> People i really need to know if there is anyone with the same issue as me. I still have time to return the Soundcard.
> 
> Please let me know if you Xonar owners can hear a static noise coming trhough your headphones or not, when you pause a video.
> 
> ...


 
   
  There is zero noise through headphone out at any channel mode and any gain setting, on my card at maximum volume.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





redshift rider said:


> There is another ,cheaper option, for you to consider. You could replace two JRCs with two LME49720 and leave the default LM4562 in the buffer position. Some people even got them from national semiconductor as free samples, but i don't know the way
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/LME49720NA-Dual-OpAmp-Audiophile-AUTHENTIC-LME49720-DIP-/160536400278 ---> just an example, i think they could be found cheaper.


 
  Hi many thanks , ive got some "LME49860NA" am i right that they are the same as the LME49720NA ?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> I actually know that i shouldnt set the volume on max, my question was if one of you guys can hear a noise as well, when you have that setup as described earlier. Because i can hear that noise even on a normal setup (2channel) with 50% volume. These extreme settings (8channel + max volume) was just to make sure whether you can or cant hear a noise.
> 
> But i already have found out on a nother forum that this noise I was talking about is a Xonar thing, almost every user with a DX or STX on that forum agreed with me that they can actually hear a noise out of their headphones.
> So thanks anyway.


 
   
   
  Hmm...I dont know, I've done quite a bit of reading on Asus cards when buying them but never heard anyone mention this noise.  I've had a DG, D2X, and two ST's, never heard any noise from any headphone, regardless of impedance or settings, except when SVN was turned, then there's some whining noise, but thats a stupid thing to have to turned on anyway. 
   
  I haven't been involved in this discussion from the start, so I don't know which of the following you've done already, but try to change the PCI socket, I mean, use another one on your motherboard if you can, and use a different power cable (i mean the molex cable) from your computer power supply to the sound card.  Also, you might wanna take the shield off of the card and check if the op-amps are fitted properly, and at the same time check for some obvious damages such as scratches on the PCB, bad solder joints, etc.  I know that when I was modifying my Musical Fidelity V-CAN headphone amp by replacing the op-amps and capacitors, I had to re-solder a lot of them because a bad solder joint made a really high pitched whiny sound.  Of course, you're not gonna do that if you have a warranty. Also, try to play around with settings in the windows control panel under sound devices or playback devices. Right click on the card, properties, advanced, then try changing the sample rates and playing with exclusive mode options. It definitely sounds like there is something wrong with your card.


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Hi many thanks , ive got some "LME49860NA" am i right that they are the same as the LME49720NA ?


 
   
   
  60's are apparently a bit superior according to some people. I don't hear a difference between them trough K701's.  They are IMHO the best op-amps to upgrade to though...better than AD797BRZ, which are totally overpriced in my opinion. 49860 has a very neutral sound with a slight hint of warmth, a bigger soundstage than stock and possibly more detail, while sound more musical, organic and effortless. I never liked the stock ST because it never made the music sound pleasing, it was harsh and too analytical, these opamps change that.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> 60's are apparently a bit superior according to some people. I don't hear a difference between them trough K701's.  They are IMHO the best op-amps to upgrade to though...better than AD797BRZ, which are totally overpriced in my opinion. 49860 has a very neutral sound with a slight hint of warmth, a bigger soundstage than stock and possibly more detail, while sound more musical, organic and effortless. I never liked the stock ST because it never made the music sound pleasing, it was harsh and too analytical, these opamps change that.


 
  Many thanks thats great , i'll go for that as my first upgrade , do you reccomend leaving the LM4562 in the buffer position ?


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Many thanks thats great , i'll go for that as my first upgrade , do you reccomend leaving the LM4562 in the buffer position ?


 
   
   
  If you only use a headphone output on the card, then buffer op-amp is irrelevant, if you use the RCA out, then you should change the buffer op-amps too.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> If you only use a headphone output on the card, then buffer op-amp is irrelevant, if you use the RCA out, then you should change the buffer op-amps too.


 
  Thanks again , i use the rca's so i should go for 3 x LME49860NA ?


----------



## Redshift Rider

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Thanks again , i use the rca's so i should go for 3 x LME49860NA ?


 
   
   
  Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Many thanks thats great , i'll go for that as my first upgrade , do you reccomend leaving the LM4562 in the buffer position ?


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/521972/lm4562-lme49720-lme49860-do-they-sound-different-to-you


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





redshift rider said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/521972/lm4562-lme49720-lme49860-do-they-sound-different-to-you


 
  LOL so there all the same DOH )


----------



## bcschmerker4

derbigpr said:


> 60's are apparently a bit superior according to some people. I don't hear a difference between them trough K701's.  They are IMHO the best op-amps to upgrade to though...better than AD797BRZ, which are totally overpriced in my opinion. 49860 has a very neutral sound with a slight hint of warmth, a bigger soundstage than stock and possibly more detail, while sound more musical, organic and effortless. I never liked the stock ST because it never made the music sound pleasing, it was harsh and too analytical, these opamps change that.


 

 Ironically, I _want_ ultra-analytical, as I need the headphone amplifier on my XONAR® Essence™ STX™ for monitoring an audio stream outbound to the Internet.  This also requires ultra-accurate dual op amps in the I-V, as they feed the Texas Instruments® TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier.  The weakest link in this chain is, of course, the headset itself; it's not easy to engineer one that has no need of EQ to accurately monitor the outgoing stream; but I'd be remiss to neglect op amps.
  
 Texas Instruments® manufactures all the candidate op amps for my rig's I-V, which run a gamut from high-fidelity audio-optimized designs that can drive a 600Ω load (e.g., the National Semiconductor® LME49990MA, although as a surface-mount op amp it requires a specific adapter board) to low-power-consumption video amplifiers (e.g., the THS4031 and THS4032); the National Semiconductor® LME49860NA is one candidate that plugs into the STX'™ JEDEC 8-pin DIP sockets without need for an adapter board.  (The Analog Devices® AD797BR was ruled out of further consideration due to stability issues.)


----------



## belerofonte981

I got this from frugaphile http://i39.tinypic.com/j9szkh.jpg
   
This is a lme49990 with a small cap solded to prevent the oscilation, now these runs less hotter that the standar version, aprox 45 ºC
I can't say nothing about a difference in SQ , i only try it for an hour, i didn't notice nothing strange.
   
I hope this can help.


----------



## xeizo

I just changed back to the OP-rolled Xonar Essence ST after using my stock Xonar DX for a couple of days, when trying out a NAD 116 preamp I picked up and refurbished myself , the difference is huge!
   
  Xonar DX sounds clean and all, but there's no real life, sparkle and impact, the sound is somewhat tiny even if clean. The ST brings all that back, very lively presentation with a large soundstage, it's even cleaner and the bass is as powerful as can be. And everything sounds _dynamic_.
   
  ST with those OP:s in my sig. is a very satisfying source which I easily can recommend, I've stopped using physical media so a high quality source for presenting all those files and streams is a must!
   
  An OP-amp rolled ST/STX is a bargain compared to those more exotic network-players and USB-DAC:s out there which eventually surpass it SQ-wise.
  (Linn for example uses lots of LM4562:s in their players, so we may be on to something here)  
   
  As a sidenote, besides the obvious potential of having a fully balanced preamplifier with several outputs so does the NAD 116 outperform my Sony-amp in one important aspect; the NAD has a dead-quiet background when using Xonar ST/HD-600, the Sony has a very slight hum in the left earcup. That alone makes me feel like it being more than a sidegrade, The NAD has no problem driving HD-600 as it features a separate discrete HP-amp on a dedicated circuit-board inside, delivering 8V in 600Ohm, which seems to be more than enough.


----------



## xeizo

Quote: 





belerofonte981 said:


> I got this from frugaphile http://i39.tinypic.com/j9szkh.jpg
> 
> This is a lme49990 with a small cap solded to prevent the oscilation, now these runs less hotter that the standar version, aprox 45 ºC
> I can't say nothing about a difference in SQ , i only try it for an hour, i didn't notice nothing strange.
> ...


 
   
  Very interesting, I guess they will show upp on the bay soon!


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *xeizo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Xonar DX sounds clean and all, but there's no real life, sparkle and impact, the sound is somewhat tiny even if clean. The ST brings all that back, very lively presentation with a large soundstage, it's even cleaner and the bass is as powerful as can be. And everything sounds _dynamic_.


 
   
  Note that the ST has about 1 dB higher line output voltage, which would make it sound "better" in a way similar to what you described without accurate level matching.


----------



## xeizo

stv014 said:


> Note that the ST has about 1 dB higher line output voltage, which would make it sound "better" in a way similar to what you described without accurate level matching.




Nice try  In fact, the DX is the louder part by default since I use a -6dB setting as standard for ST and -3dB for DX(Iuse Linux and ALSA). That would make it 2dB louder! But of course I manually adjust the volume on my preamp after that. It's not a small difference, the ST sounds way better


----------



## MrFahrenheit

Have you guys downloaded the beta drivers from Asus? Seems like they were released this month.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





mrfahrenheit said:


> Have you guys downloaded the beta drivers from Asus? Seems like they were released this month.


 
  Do you mean
  1.Modify Japanese and Russian Language. ?


----------



## MrFahrenheit

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Do you mean
> 1.Modify Japanese and Russian Language. ?


 

 Is that all it is? >.> Bummer.
   
  Is it better to get the latest unified drivers? I don't have any apparent problems with the official drivers, so I'm not sure if it's necessary.


----------



## xeizo

The Unified drivers are better, they are based on a more recent C-Media driver set. For myself I run Linux for my primary stereo music audio needs, it's more "bare naked metal" as the driver is built into the Linux-kernel(I use Windows and M-Audio for audio creation)


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> The Unified drivers are better, they are based on a more recent C-Media driver set. For myself I run Linux for my primary stereo music audio needs, it's more "bare naked metal" as the driver is built into the Linux-kernel(I use Windows and M-Audio for audio creation)


 
  I have wondered what advantage there is in using the "Unified" drivers , if you have no problems with the normal one , its not like they can improve the sound is it ?


----------



## xeizo

mrlimbo said:


> I have wondered what advantage there is in using the "Unified" drivers , if you have no problems with the normal one , its not like they can improve the sound is it ?



 
 If you run ASIO with both drivers there's absolutely no difference in SQ as ASIO talks directly with the hardware, but if you don't use ASIO there can be noticeable differences between different drivers since they can have different behaviours against the Windows soundstack. But the biggest advantage with the Unified drivers is the possibility to configure exactly what portions of the driver to run, down to the basic C-Media driver, and thereby drastically reduce DPC-latency which in itself can cause noise when multitasking on the PC. If you only listen to music and do nothing else at the same time that won't matter.


----------



## MrFahrenheit

I also figured that it was mainly to do with stability, but now that you mention it, I might try them out for the "multi-tasking" feature. The official drivers are working fine for me, as far as I can see, so yeah... Ah what the hell, I'll try em out and see. What's the worst that could happen?!?

 *PC blows up*


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> If you run ASIO with both drivers there's absolutely no difference in SQ as ASIO talks directly with the hardware, but if you don't use ASIO there can be noticeable differences between different drivers since they can have different behaviours against the Windows soundstack.But the biggest advantage with the Unified drivers is the possibility to configure exactly what portions of the driver to run, down to the basic C-Media driver, and thereby drastically reduce DPC-latency which in itself can cause noise when multitasking on the PC. If you only listen to music and do nothing else at the same time that won't matter.


 
  Hi , many thanks for the great info , now i see


----------



## mrlimbo

At the moment the STX  is out of the comp , im going the put in  2 x  LME49860NA  and at the moment leave the stock in the buffer , anyone else used that combo with anything else in the buffer , ie any recommendations for the buffer , before the card goes back in , in a few days , thanks


----------



## MrHeadphone

Quote: 





mrheadphone said:


> People i really need to know if there is anyone with the same issue as me. I still have time to return the Soundcard.
> 
> Please let me know if you Xonar owners can hear a static noise coming trhough your headphones or not, when you pause a video.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok guys, I finally found the solution for the problem.
   
  After i testet the XOnar DX, STX and now the Pheobus, all had the same white noise, when i whatched videos.
   
  Apparently the Drivers are set to 44khz/16-Bit standard.
   
  When i changed the *bit depth from 16 to 24 bit* at the Pheobus driver, the white noise disappears.


----------



## xeizo

mrlimbo said:


> At the moment the STX  is out of the comp , im going the put in  2 x  LME49860NA  and at the moment leave the stock in the buffer , anyone else used that combo with anything else in the buffer , ie any recommendations for the buffer , before the card goes back in , in a few days , thanks




Depends on how you use the card, what you suggest will be the best if using the headphone out on the card. If using the RCA:s to the LittleDot, it could be the best, but it may be even better if you use one of the LME49860 as buffer and use stock in the IV. Because, it could be that it is the buffer that is the bottleneck for the RCA:s. The ideal would be to have 49860:s in all positions if course.

If you use the LittleDot you should normally use the RCA:s, to bypass the hp-amp on the card.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote:


>


   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *xeizo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Depends on how you use the card, what you suggest will be the best if using the headphone out on the card. If using the RCA:s to the LittleDot, it could be the best, but it may be even better if you use one of the LME49860 as buffer and use stock in the IV. Because, it could be that it is the buffer that is the bottleneck for the RCA:s. The ideal would be to have 49860:s in all positions if course.
> ...


 
   
  Hi thanks , yes i use the RCA's , well as pointed out earlier , with the 2 x  LME49860NA and stock in the buffer , it will be technically be 3 x as there all the same chip !!!
   
  Just wondered if there was a better option in the buffer , before the card goes back in , as its not easy getting the card in and out , i have to physically remove a hardrive !!! so dont really want to do it that many times 
   
  Im still in the process of trying to work out if the STX sounds any better than the DGX (which is back in ) to my ears , at the moment the jury's still out !!!


----------



## MrHeadphone

Does anyone know how to change the BIT- Depth in the Xonar STX driver from 16 to 24 bit?


----------



## CommanerKeen

Got a pair of DT990 600ohm,and as I've read the amp in the card might not be the best while the dac is awesome. So,I'm looking to grab a Schiit Magni,would it be a better way to drive my headphones?


----------



## foreign

I have an stx and pc360 sennheiser, I also have ordered senn hd650 I have been thinking about swapping OP Amps depending how they pair with the 650,s. the pc360 sounds awesome nice balance. Big soundstage and mids are up front and centre. Bass is very neutral that is the only thing in which I would like to improve. It just seems to lack punch. This is probably due to the sound signature of the pc360,s and possibly not the stx. However is there any OP Amps in which I can improve the bass and still keep similar soundstage, detail and position accuracy. The stock amps are great for gaming I just feel I'm possibly missing out in music. Vocals sound fantastic but music with a lot of bass sounds a little flat and boring. Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





commanerkeen said:


> Got a pair of DT990 600ohm,and as I've read the amp in the card might not be the best while the DAC is awesome. So,I'm looking to grab a Schiit Magni,would it be a better way to drive my headphones?


 
  My Essence STX seem to drive my DT990 Premium 600-Ohm headphones just fine.


----------



## foreign

Has anyone swapped OP amps to LME49990 ?


----------



## mrlimbo

Ps has anyone used the headphone out for speakers ? just that i use the rca for my headphone amp , so would be good to have the speakers for the rare time i use them , there only ultra cheap powered comp speakers , so i suppose ive got nothing to lose if i try it out , shame you cant turn the amplication off !!!


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





commanerkeen said:


> Got a pair of DT990 600ohm,and as I've read the amp in the card might not be the best while the dac is awesome. So,I'm looking to grab a Schiit Magni,would it be a better way to drive my headphones?


 
   
  I highly doubt you'll get the same sound quality with a cheap standalone amp like Magni.


----------



## lumzi23

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> If you run ASIO with both drivers...


 
  I have had this card for 6 months and recently moved to the unified drivers. One question has mystified me all this time. What is ASIO and how exactly do you run it?
   
  I thought it was only for sound input and not playback? Thanks in advance for any info.


----------



## e6600

Quote: 





lumzi23 said:


> I have had this card for 6 months and recently moved to the unified drivers. One question has mystified me all this time. What is ASIO and how exactly do you run it?
> 
> I thought it was only for sound input and not playback? Thanks in advance for any info.


 
  the default asio 2.0 will be at 100% volume, so you'll need to control your volume via amp.  if not, you'll need the asio 1.0 addon for the unified drivers.  
  and the foobar asio addon (or asio support for your player).  you should be able to pick asio from the output tab in foobar


----------



## lumzi23

Quote: 





e6600 said:


> the default asio 2.0 will be at 100% volume, so you'll need to control your volume via amp.  if not, you'll need the asio 1.0 addon for the unified drivers.
> and the foobar asio addon (or asio support for your player).  you should be able to pick asio from the output tab in foobar


 
  I still don't get it. Do I need a separate amplifier? I have the wasapi add on for foobar. What is the difference between it and asio?


----------



## Magiv9

Asio 1 - can adjust volume from pc
Asio 2 - volume always at 100% and can't be turned down from pc. 
Asio - something to do with playing directly from hardware
Wasapi - bypassing the windows stereo mix (the thing that mixes music, video, games, yYouTube etc). 

Wasapi works flawlessly. 
Asio has issues with resampling.


----------



## lumzi23

Thank you for your response! I understand better now.


----------



## andaca

edit , ignore question  high impedance on the headphones output ins not suitable for my l1 cans.


----------



## MrFahrenheit

Quote: 





magiv9 said:


> Asio 1 - can adjust volume from pc
> Asio 2 - volume always at 100% and can't be turned down from pc.
> Asio - something to do with playing directly from hardware
> Wasapi - bypassing the windows stereo mix (the thing that mixes music, video, games, yYouTube etc).
> ...


 

 Is there a way to use WASAPI for everything? Not just a plugin for foobar?


----------



## mrlimbo

Just changed my opamps for the first time , how are they meant to be seated ? as the 2 in I/V were fully seated (bottom of chip touching base of socket) and the buffer had 3-5 mm between it and the socket !
   
  Thanks


----------



## Magiv9

Quote: 





mrfahrenheit said:


> Is there a way to use WASAPI for everything? Not just a plugin for foobar?


 

 No,
  WASAPI is just for file playback, having everything else defeats the purpose of it.
  The point is to have the file 'play how it was recorded' without having other sounds mixed into it (windows).
   
  Just stick to direct sound or at best, use ASIO 1 from xonar unified where you can use both windows direct sound and foorbar asio at the same time (assuming you're using an asus xonar card).


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Just changed my opamps for the first time , how are they meant to be seated ? as the 2 in I/V were fully seated (bottom of chip touching base of socket) and the buffer had 3-5 mm between it and the socket !
> 
> Thanks


 
  Doesnt anybody know how they should be seated ? or if it makes a difference ?


----------



## mrlimbo

Now if you had to change your ST/X  sound card to lesser one , what would it be ? DX , D2  etc
   
  I only ask as im still auditioning cards , and wonder what you think the 2nd best card is to the ST/X , as im not yet 100% certain if its for me , but ive yet to try it with new opamps.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Now if you had to change your ST/X  sound card to lesser one , what would it be ? DX , D2  etc


 
   
  It depends on what features you need. For use as a DAC only, the DX or D2 would be fine, although the DX has no shielding, which may be a problem in some PCs (not in mine, I do not get any interference issues with the Xonar D1; I do not have a high end GPU, though). If you have an external DAC with S/PDIF input and only need the sound card for gaming, then even a Xonar DG or used X-Fi Titanium (not HD) could be enough.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> It depends on what features you need. For use as a DAC only, the DX or D2 would be fine, although the DX has no shielding, which may be a problem in some PCs (not in mine, I do not get any interference issues with the Xonar D1; I do not have a high end GPU, though). If you have an external DAC with S/PDIF input and only need the sound card for gaming, then even a Xonar DG or used X-Fi Titanium (not HD) could be enough.


 
  Thanks , it would purely be used for stereo playback through a tube amp and headphones


----------



## foreign

I've been trying to get info about OP amps Lme49990 but no one seems to know. Let me know hiw it sounds and what OP Amps your changing them with thanks. The easiest way is to see the originals have been seated and when you change them try to seat them accordingly. I've been buying mine from a supplier in which they fit like the originals. Haven't had to trim the pins yet for proper seating.


----------



## iMusicLover

Hello guys, I am waiting Asus Xonar Essence STX for my Grado SR225i? Which drivers i should download from Asus Official web page for STX ? Newest Beta drivers or older normal drivers ?


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





magiv9 said:


> Asio has issues with resampling.


 
  What?  ASIO is meant to bypass and DSP or resampling.  Maybe that is the reaon it is having issues...who knows.


----------



## ROBSCIX

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Doesnt anybody know how they should be seated ? or if it makes a difference ?


 
  Yes, push tme all the way down, gently.  Provided the contacts are connected, they can be sitting up a bit but most push the flush with teh socket.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





robscix said:


> Yes, push tme all the way down, gently.  Provided the contacts are connected, they can be sitting up a bit but most push the flush with teh socket.


 
  Thank you , i did think that but when one of the stock amps wasnt , i did wonder , thanks again 
  They do take quite a bit of force to fully seat them though , was rather surprised !!


----------



## foreign

mrlimbo said:


> Thank you , i did think that but when one of the stock amps wasnt , i did wonder , thanks again
> They do take quite a bit of force to fully seat them though , was rather surprised !!




Which amps did you get ?? How does it sound in comparison to the stock OP Amps.


----------



## Magiv9

robscix said:


> What?  ASIO is meant to bypass and DSP or resampling.  Maybe that is the reaon it is having issues...who knows.



In Foobar, I can play all 41.1khz files fine, but if I'd I decide to listen to a 48khz file it'll just go super slow motion, or just hear little clicks and don't play at all. 
It works if you reopen Foobar but if you want to listen to 41.1khz file again you gotta reopen it. 
Technically it's not resampling but you gotta keep reopening it Everytime you play different sampling rates. 

I'm pretty sure asio dosn't bypass the dsp settings of the music player but just the OS portion, I remember having 2 Foobar installs, 1 with dolby headphone and 1 without and the difference was night and day, will check it again after I jump on a pc to make sure.

Yeah even with ASIO, the default and dolby headphones sound different in foobar.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Which amps did you get ?? How does it sound in comparison to the stock OP Amps.


 
  Hi , i used 2 x LME49860NA & replace the buffer with LM4562NA (the same chip as stock) havent put it back in yet , im still trying to decide between the STX & my old card DGX , so im in no rush , but my DGX to my ears is just so much easier to listen to and seems much more musical than the stock STX ? doesnt make sense i know ???
   
  Hope i can eventually get the STX to sound how i want with different opamps , ie less harsh & analytical !
  Wonder what opamps the DGX uses ?
  If i cant get the STX to work with my ears/setup , i want to try out the D2 / DX2


----------



## jamessmith

Hi, friends.
   
  I got the Xonar Essence ST a while back and I'm pretty much happy with it. I normally go ASIO+Foobar+Sennheiser cans with no major issues, using appropiate gain setting for my cans and controlling volume with Foobar, since ASIO bypass the Essence driver UI control.
   
  Recently, using other hardware and software (Galaxy S phone with Voodoo Sound hack), a developer wrote that the best solution is to set digitial amplification (software) to its maximum and use analog gain in DAC to achieve desired volume while listening to the content. In the moment I thought about how to do that with the Xonar, given that analog gain isn't adjustable as a regular volume level and I'm actually using software (Foobar) digital amplification.
   
  So, my question is... How to adjust analog gain as volume level? Any software or driver?
   
  Excuse me if this has been covered but this thread is really huge and every search try gave me hundreds of posts... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  EDIT: I got from the previous page that ASIO v2 wich I have with the ASUS drivers wont let me adjust volume from pc, assuming we are talking "volume" as "analog gain", that it is always at 100% and therefore I need to set the volume with software. So, do I need th UNI drivers to get ASIO v1?


----------



## Gustav Mahler

mrlimbo said:


> Hi , i used 2 x LME49860NA & replace the buffer with LM4562NA (the same chip as stock) havent put it back in yet , im still trying to decide between the STX & my old card DGX , so im in no rush , but my DGX to my ears is just so much easier to listen to and seems much more musical than the stock STX ? doesnt make sense i know ???
> 
> Hope i can eventually get the STX to sound how i want with different opamps , ie less harsh & analytical !
> Wonder what opamps the DGX uses ?
> If i cant get the STX to work with my ears/setup , i want to try out the D2 / DX2




You might try Muses 1s.....I installed them a couple of months ago and they had that effect.

Cheers!

Gus


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





gustav mahler said:


> You might try Muses 1s.....I installed them a couple of months ago and they had that effect.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Gus


 
  Thanks , but LOL 2 of those would cost me more than the card did )
   
  Hmm i wonder what the cheaper MUSES8920 is like ???


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *mrlimbo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hope i can eventually get the STX to sound how i want with different opamps , ie less harsh & analytical !


 
   
  If you find the sound too harsh, try different headphones, or equalize down the treble. Unlike "rolling" op amps, these can actually make a real, useful difference.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> If you find the sound too harsh, try different headphones, or equalize down the treble. Unlike "rolling" op amps, these can actually make a real, useful difference.


 
  Hi thanks , id rather change the the sound card than my headphones , i dont like to use equalizers really , but could try as a last resort , i suppose !


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Has any of you put _*MUSES01*_ or *MUSES8920* op amps on your Xonar Essence STX?
> 
> It sounds wonderful.
> 
> Too bad they're $50 each.


 
  How was the MUSES8920 ? as there only about £10 each !


----------



## Gustav Mahler

Quote: 





cssarrow said:


> Has any of you put _*MUSES01*_ or *MUSES8920* op amps on your Xonar Essence STX?
> 
> It sounds wonderful.
> 
> Too bad they're $50 each.


 
  A mere $20 from Ali Express.
   
  Cheers!
   
  Gus


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





gustav mahler said:


> A mere $20 from Ali Express.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Gus


 
  Nice one , good find , but i do wonder if there genuine though , at least one feedback for one of the dealers , states there re badged fakes ??


----------



## foreign

Mr Limbo I'm wondering if your Stx is faulty. The DG is ok but in comparison to the STX there is quite a bit of difference. The DG just isn't in the same ballpark I've gotx2 pc's one with Stx my main rig and a backup with the DG. I can notice a bit of a difference between the two.
Ignore that just realised you were talking about d2x. Lol


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Mr Limbo I'm wondering if your Stx is faulty. The DG is ok but in comparison to the STX there is quite a bit of difference. The DG just isn't in the same ballpark I've gotx2 pc's one with Stx my main rig and a backup with the DG. I can notice a bit of a difference between the two.
> Ignore that just realised you were talking about d2x. Lol


 
  Hi , no your correct , well almost , its the DGX , so it is the same card , the D2/X is a card i want to try if the STX doesnt work out for me !!!
   
  No my STX isnt faulty , bought from a member from here infact , and yes its far superior than the DGX in many ways , but its just its signature sound , i just dont like it , ive read quite a few other people find it rather harsh and a little analytical not very musical in a sense , but i am sticking with for a long time and will try out as many opamp variations as i can , to try and get it to work with my ears !!
   
  Might even invest in a one pair of higher priced opamps if i have too !!
   
  Cheers


----------



## foreign

mrlimbo said:


> Hi , no your correct , well almost , its the DGX , so it is the same card , the D2/X is a card i want to try if the STX doesnt work out for me !!!
> 
> No my STX isnt faulty , bought from a member from here infact , and yes its far superior than the DGX in many ways , but its just its signature sound , i just dont like it , ive read quite a few other people find it rather harsh and a little analytical not very musical in a sense , but i am sticking with for a long time and will try out as many opamp variations as i can , to try and get it to work with my ears !!
> 
> Might even invest in a one pair of higher priced opamps if i have too !!



Hope you find the sound you are looking for . Make sure you post the OP Amps you have purchased if you find the right pair. Been looking for a nice substitute aswell.


----------



## xeizo

Still happy with my LME49990 in the buffer and two LM4562NA/NOPB in the I/V using RCA-out, currently feeding a NAD Stereo Preamplifier 116 driving my HD600:s. Very high definition but still musical and with great punch! I currently don't feel like I'm missing out on anything and think the DAC-case is closed. At the moment more interested in finding some ultimate desktop monitors  (even though I have very good sound as is in my current mini monitors for PC-sound - 3.5" mica-PP woofers + 1" soft domes + 8" active subwoofer)


----------



## Gustav Mahler

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> Nice one , good find , but i do wonder if there genuine though , at least one feedback for one of the dealers , states there re badged fakes ??


 

 I considered that....sometimes you take a chance.  I think they're the real goods.  Listening via a Music First Classic pre, Bryston 3B SST and Thiel 2 2s the sound stage steps back slightly from the front of the speakers and becomes deeper and more spacious......not as hard and flat as the stock op amps.  For $60 a tangible improvement.
   
  Cheers!
   
  Gus


----------



## connieflyer

Just wanted to relay what my experience has been with opamps.  I am using Sennheiser HD650 headphones straight thru the xonar stx.  I have the rca outputs going to a Harmon-Kardon avr 510,connected to Electrovoice Sentry V's.  Sounds real nice thru either but we all want a little more.  If I use the headphones thru the receiver the sound is not quite as good as what I hear through the headphone out on the xonar itself.  So most of my listening has been thru the head out jack.  Reading here on the opamps, I finally decided to give it a go.  I bought 3LME49720NA dual opamps and just installed no problem.  The difference for me was clear.  The soundstage seemed a bit larger, but the sound seemed a bit thin. The bass was well defined as was the treble and midrange, but just a little less life to it.  I listened to hd flac, mp3, wav all were the same. On occasion would hear a little sibiance that never showed up with the stock opamps. Listened to all kinds of music for a few hours, and decided to go back to stock opamps, but before I did I put on the avr, and tried the sound on it.  Wow, what a difference in the sound on the line out, even the wife had to come back and listened a bit to the difference.  So naturally I figured I better try the headphone out on the avr, again, big difference from the stock opamps. Now using the Senns thru the headphone jack on the receiver, I have what I was looking for. More openness better and more detailed bass, treble, headphones sounded so realistic I spent another two hours going through as much varied material as I had, just to make sure it was good to go on all types of music, and it is.  Best  twenty dollars I ever spent, now I am a happier camper than before.  NOw I have to decide if I want to reinstall the opamps for the headphone section or just use the avr.  The detail on the avr both speakers and headphone is beautiful, I guess if it "ain't broke don't fix it" is what I am doing.  Hope this helped someone that is on the fence to try a little opamp swapping. Of course your milage may vary.  All the best.


----------



## Eric M

I'm looking to add some 2.0 speakers to my Xonar STX for occasional non-headphone use. I want minimal wiring from a cosmetic point of view. I don't have a receiver or external amp. What are my options? I'd like to keep everything around 250 [size=small]± 50[/size]. It's mostly for entertaining guests, I'm not hugely worried about the sound quality.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





eric m said:


> I'm looking to add some 2.0 speakers to my Xonar STX for occasional non-headphone use. I want minimal wiring from a cosmetic point of view. I don't have a receiver or external amp. What are my options?


 
  Be helpful if you listed a budget.


----------



## Eric M

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Be helpful if you listed a budget.


 
  Doh! I've added that I'd like to keep it around 250ish


----------



## foreign

connieflyer said:


> Just wanted to relay what my experience has been with opamps.  I am using Sennheiser HD650 headphones straight thru the xonar stx.  I have the rca outputs going to a Harmon-Kardon avr 510,connected to Electrovoice Sentry V's.  Sounds real nice thru either but we all want a little more.  If I use the headphones thru the receiver the sound is not quite as good as what I hear through the headphone out on the xonar itself.  So most of my listening has been thru the head out jack.  Reading here on the opamps, I finally decided to give it a go.  I bought 3LME49720NA dual opamps and just installed no problem.  The difference for me was clear.  The soundstage seemed a bit larger, but the sound seemed a bit thin. The bass was well defined as was the treble and midrange, but just a little less life to it.  I listened to hd flac, mp3, wav all were the same. On occasion would hear a little sibiance that never showed up with the stock opamps. Listened to all kinds of music for a few hours, and decided to go back to stock opamps, but before I did I put on the avr, and tried the sound on it.  Wow, what a difference in the sound on the line out, even the wife had to come back and listened a bit to the difference.  So naturally I figured I better try the headphone out on the avr, again, big difference from the stock opamps. Now using the Senns thru the headphone jack on the receiver, I have what I was looking for. More openness better and more detailed bass, treble, headphones sounded so realistic I spent another two hours going through as much varied material as I had, just to make sure it was good to go on all types of music, and it is.  Best  twenty dollars I ever spent, now I am a happier camper than before.  NOw I have to decide if I want to reinstall the opamps for the headphone section or just use the avr.  The detail on the avr both speakers and headphone is beautiful, I guess if it "ain't broke don't fix it" is what I am doing.  Hope this helped someone that is on the fence to try a little opamp swapping. Of course your milage may vary.  All the best.



AVR??? Sorry for the noob question but what is it.


----------



## Eric M

Would the RCA outs from the Xonar to the RCA ins on a powered studio monitor like this work? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051WAM64/


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





eric m said:


> Would the RCA outs from the Xonar to the RCA ins on a powered studio monitor like this work? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0051WAM64/


 
  Yes.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Still happy with my LME49990 in the buffer and two LM4562NA/NOPB in the I/V using RCA-out,


 
  Hmm seriously considering getting the 49990 for the buffer , with that setup how harsh and bright is it , or has it removed that from the STX sound ? also how is the sound stage ? thanks


----------



## connieflyer

An avr is just short for audio video receiver.  No question is a "noob"  we all had to start somewhere, I just did, well fifty years ago!


----------



## xeizo

mrlimbo said:


> Hmm seriously considering getting the 49990 for the buffer , with that setup how harsh and bright is it , or has it removed that from the STX sound ? also how is the sound stage ? thanks




Not harsh at all, not bright nor dark, only very neutral with extremely high resolution, a surprisingly punchy bass, a very 3D soundstage and with pinpoint precision imaging! As I said, I'm very happy and my focus has totally changed into improving other parts of the soundchain ie some ultimate desktop monitors 

I've done direct comparisons with the highly regarded Xonar DX as it sits in the same box and it sounds very flat, synthetic and lifeless in comparison. Before I changed OP:s I didn't think it was much of a difference, only slightly better for the stock ST over the DX. I'm only talking RCA out here, I haven't explored the headphone out on the ST much.

Some have voiced concern over the LME49990:s getting very hot, and so it may be, but my Essence ST sits in a server that is on 24/7 and so far(two months or so) it has been working 100% with no artifacts or strange behaviour so it seems it can handle the heat.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





xeizo said:


> Not harsh at all, not bright nor dark, only very neutral with extremely high resolution, a surprisingly punchy bass, a very 3D soundstage and with pinpoint precision imaging! As I said, I'm very happy and my focus has totally changed into improving other parts of the soundchain ie some ultimate desktop monitors
> 
> I've done direct comparisons with the highly regarded Xonar DX as it sits in the same box and it sounds very flat, synthetic and lifeless in comparison. Before I changed OP:s I didn't think it was much of a difference, only slightly better for the stock ST over the DX. I'm only talking RCA out here, I haven't explored the headphone out on the ST much.
> 
> Some have voiced concern over the LME49990:s getting very hot, and so it may be, but my Essence ST sits in a server that is on 24/7 and so far(two months or so) it has been working 100% with no artifacts or strange behaviour so it seems it can handle the heat.


 
  Many thanks for taking the time to reply , pulled the trigger and one is on its way


----------



## rvcjew

if im' reading this thread correctly 3 of these should increase the overall sound quality of my STX? I currently have it going through these things: ATH-M50's for headphones out of the amp, and for speakers I use the rca line outs to a STR-DH520, that powers two AS-B1's and uses a dayton sub 1200 through LFE.  
   
  Thanks for your input.


----------



## iMusicLover

Guys can help me, i buy Xonar Essence STX, uninstal Realtek drivers, disable azaria audio codec from bios, instal stx to mb plug molex 4 pin connector, instal STX drivers for windows 8 from official asus website. Plug Grado sr225i and Sennheiser HD 515 and sound same as my speakers for 70$ sound nothing special liitle bit better than ingetrated, what i should do, maybe something wrng i do ? Grado SR225i ~100hours burn in, Sennheiser HD 515 ~600h.


----------



## connieflyer

you said you disabled azaria codec from the bias, did you also disable the onboard sound function or is that what you meant?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rvcjew said:


> if im' reading this thread correctly 3 of these should increase the overall sound quality of my STX? I currently have it going through these things: ATH-M50's for headphones out of the amp, and for speakers I use the rca line outs to a STR-DH520, that powers two AS-B1's and uses a dayton sub 1200 through LFE.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


 
  The STX's buffer chip, LM4562, is the same as the LME49720 and LME49860.
  The LME49860 supports more voltage range.
  But the price is right for at least trying the LME49860.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





imusiclover said:


> Guys can help me, I buy Xonar Essence STX, uninstal Realtek drivers, disable azaria audio codec from bios, instal stx to mb plug molex 4 pin connector, instal STX drivers for windows 8 from official asus website. Plug Grado sr225i and Sennheiser HD 515 and sound same as my speakers for 70$ sound nothing special liitle bit better than ingetrated, what i should do, maybe something wrng i do ? Grado SR225i ~100hours burn in, Sennheiser HD 515 ~600h.


 
  Which of the three Gain (Ohm) setting are you using for the headphone settings?
  Have you tried using Foobar for music audio files?


----------



## iMusicLover

I am using Foobar2000 flac files, i use normal gain setting, high gain and extra high gain adds more volume nothing more, how i can disable onboard sound ? Azaria sound codec disable at bios. Evey sound are muddy, nothing great, except little bit more detail and lively sound compare to onboard sound.


----------



## connieflyer

To disable on board sound you need to boot into your bias and find the onboard sound setting and  choose to disable it, and then reboot.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





imusiclover said:


> I am using Foobar2000 flac files, i use normal gain setting, high gain and extra high gain adds more volume nothing more, how i can disable onboard sound ? Azaria sound codec disable at bios. Evey sound are muddy, nothing great, except little bit more detail and lively sound compare to on-board sound.


 
  In the STX control panel.
  Audio Channel should be set to 2-channel for music audio
  Simple rate, 44.1Khz & 48Khz should fine for music audio, I leave mine at 96Khz
  Assuming Analog Out is set for "Headphone".
  Guess S/PDPF should be unchecked.
   
  It could be your motherboard on-board was decent at driving headphones
  I believe headphone like the ATH-M50 do not change that much with amping anyway.
  The STX Headphone amplifier has a 10-Ohm output impedance, it might give those headphones (M50& 225si) a slight "bloated" bass.
  Test the headphones in a portable audio player, they can have a very low headphone output impedance, might improve the bass quality
  As long as you've "disabled" on-board audio, in the BIOS, the on-board audio should not be able to function/work.
  I'm guessing any audio improvement you hear for the audio quality is do to the STX's PCM1792A DAC chip.
  Have you tried the headphones plugged into the Sony receiver?


----------



## rvcjew

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The STX's buffer chip, LM4562, is the same as the LME49720 and LME49860.
> The LME49860 supports more voltage range.
> But the price is right for at least trying the LME49860.


 
  wait so is that the buffer chip or the off-amp i linked lol? and how many do i need?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rvcjew said:


> Wait so is that the buffer chip or the off-amp i linked lol? and how many do i need?


 
  Personally I like to replace all three op-amps (1 buffer & 2 I/V), at the same time.
  The I/V slots work with the headphone, all three slots are used for line-out (RCAs) outputs
  The 1 buffer slot comes stock with the LM4562 op-amp.
  The two I/V slots comes stock with the JCR2114 op-amps.


----------



## rvcjew

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Personally I like to replace all three op-amps (1 buffer & 2 I/V), at the same time.
> The I/V slots work with the headphone, all three slots are used for line-out (RCAs) outputs
> The 1 buffer slot comes stock with the LM4562 op-amp.
> The two I/V slots comes stock with the JCR2114 op-amps.


 
  oh okay so its okay to have all three the same since then they all use the same one? What change would i get in my sound signature, if you you know of course? I currently have sorta over powered bass but it i think its mostly because my fronts are starting to die lol. since they used to be more tame/tight, and the tweeters are still sounding fine. i think ill just pick them up since its only like 8 bucks to try them. EDIT i just take the old ones out by pulling them up correct? with say something like this?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rvcjew said:


> oh okay so its okay to have all three the same since then they all use the same one? What change would i get in my sound signature, if you you know of course? I currently have sorta over powered bass but it i think its mostly because my fronts are starting to die lol. since they used to be more tame/tight, and the tweeters are still sounding fine. i think ill just pick them up since its only like 8 bucks to try them. EDIT i jsut take the old ones out by pulling them up correct? with say something like this?


 
  I do not really remember what the LME49860 sounded like, I switched out to the AD797BRs ($40) months ago.


----------



## rvcjew

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I do not really remember what the LME49860 sounded like, I switched out to the AD797BRs ($40) months ago.


 
  oh yeah those are not cheap is it a significant upgrade? what do those do to the sound signature?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rvcjew said:


> oh yeah those are not cheap is it a significant upgrade? what do those do to the sound signature?


 
  I think the AD79BR op-amp kind of opens things up.
  It's best to buy used and pre-soldered AD797BRs from China.
  Two AD797BRs need to be soldered to a dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
  So it takes 6 AD797BR op-amps to take care of the STX's three DIP-8 slots.


----------



## iMusicLover

Maybe let will burn in STX?


----------



## foreign

My stx sounded great straight away versus the onboard Realtek. The senns on the Asus stx has a nice soundstage, neutral bass, detail and mids are upfront and centre. Versus realtek which made the senns sound like a cheap $100 set of cans.


----------



## foreign

Can anyone help me I'm wanting to use an external amp paired with the stx. I have hd650's set of cans Im just unsure as to what settings need to be used to run the external amp and still use the Dolby settings on the dac.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Can anyone help me I'm wanting to use an external amp paired with the STX. I have HD650's set of cans I'm just unsure as to what settings need to be used to run the external amp and still use the Dolby settings on the DAC.


 
  You can't send Dolby Headphone surround sound thru the STX's RCA's, just basic stereo.
   
  When using the line-out (RCA), you would need to set the STX's Audio Output to "Speaker".
  And set Audio Channel to "2-Channel".


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





foreign said:


> My stx sounded great straight away versus the onboard Realtek. The senns on the Asus stx has a nice soundstage, neutral bass, detail and mids are upfront and centre. Versus realtek which made the senns sound like a cheap $100 set of cans.


 
  When you installed the STX, did you "Disable" on-board audio, in the BIOS?


----------



## foreign

purpleangel said:


> You can't send Dolby Headphone surround sound thru the STX's RCA's, just basic stereo.
> 
> When using the line-out (RCA), you would need to set the STX's Audio Output to "Speaker".
> And set Audio Channel to "2-Channel".



Thank you that cleared up a few things for me and yes I did disable onboard audio.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Thank you that cleared up a few things for me and yes I did disable on-board audio.


 
  Have you tried plugging the HD650s straight into the STX's Headphone jack?
  (Try setting the gain on both medium gain and high gain)
  How did they sound?


----------



## foreign

The stx sounds pretty good no complaints just wanted to try an external amp with it. I think you've misunderstood my previous post I was just saying that the onboard is sub par compared to the stx. As for $165 the stx was a good investment. I've just got a tube amp coming shortly and was worried about double amping and not connecting it to the stx properly. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





foreign said:


> The stx sounds pretty good no complaints just wanted to try an external amp with it. I think you've misunderstood my previous post I was just saying that the onboard is sub par compared to the stx. As for $165 the stx was a good investment. I've just got a tube amp coming shortly and was worried about double amping and not connecting it to the stx properly. Thanks for the reply.


 
  You can always try with the external headphone amplifier connected to the STX's headphone jack.
  Just put the gain on it's lowest setting and the STX's volume on high, see how it sounds.


----------



## foreign

Just worried about blowing something up lol but if I get adventurous I might give it a shot. Cheers


----------



## jincuteguy

So does the STX still sound better than the new Sound Blaster ZxR? Or is the new ZxR just win over it?I haven't found any post that can compare the 2 cards. I know in the past that Creative cards have ****ty sound quality, but their new Z series line ups are a lot better. So if anyone has 2 cards that can share some thought.


----------



## bruiselee

Hi guys,
  thinking of changing the opamps on my STX.
   
  Came to a few that im considering, but im not too sure if they are useable in the 3 slots.
   
   
  [size=x-small]Burr Brown OPA627BP.[/size] (the ones i managed to find on sale are BP, are the AP better? or the BP are just as good and will work as well?)
   
  LM6172.
   
   
  What do I need to take note when I'm buying them to be sure that i'm buying the right ones? Is there a specific name for the pin legs that i need to look - i only know it look like 8 spider legs going straight down.
   
  And about the configurations, is it possible to just put all 3 OPA627 in? I have read some post saysing not all opamps work in the buffer slot or something..


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bruiselee said:


> Thinking of changing the op-amps on my STX.
> Came to a few that I'm considering, but I'm not too sure if they are useable in the 3 slots.
> [size=x-small]Burr Brown OPA627BP.[/size] (the ones i managed to find on sale are BP, are the AP better? or the BP are just as good and will work as well?)
> LM6172.
> ...


 
  The slots on the STX and the type of chips that fit into those slots are called DIP-8.
  Each of those three slots are dual channel, so you want to use dual channel op-amps.
  There are single channel op-amps, so you would need to mount two (single channel) chips on to an adapter before using them on the STX.


----------



## bruiselee

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The slots on the STX and the type of chips that fit into those slots are called DIP-8.
> Each of those three slots are dual channel, so you want to use dual channel op-amps.
> There are single channel op-amps, so you would need to mount two (single channel) chips on to an adapter before using them on the STX.


 
  Oh. So the OPA627 and LM6172 i mentioned are single versions only? Will I have any issues covering back to the EMI shield after I have the opa627 dual mounted? It seems, logically, it will take up more height, or is there enough clearance?
   
  And can I use all of the same OpA627 dual mounted in the 3 slots? or only in the I/V slots, and the buffer i have to use soimething different?
   
  edit: i have found some already mounted and soldered opamps, but their legs look like this instead





  will they still fit in the STX?


----------



## tamski

Hi guys! I have Sennheiser HD 595 and I'm looking for opamps for it. I've read the first post and there is a quote from post by Funky-kun:
   
  Quote: 





> JRC2114 (default) : I actually think the default opamp for the card is a really good choice. Had it not been for the bassy and dark signature of my cans, I would have kept these. They actually sound the best with my HD595s. Bass is very deep, with perfect extension, just a bit too much in quality for the HD650s.


 
  I definitly don't think that bass is deep on my HD595s. For me the sound is flat, precious and unemotional. It may be fine for electronic things but when it comes to rock, I expect more drive.
 Any recommendations from HD595 owners?

 Also in the title post I've read that it is preferable to control volume by Xonar Audio Center (actually backed by windows mixer) while player volume set to 100%. Why? What I do, I set windows volume to max and control volume in foobar2000, so I by-pass any post-processing by mixer.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bruiselee said:


> Oh. So the OPA627 and LM6172 i mentioned are single versions only? Will I have any issues covering back to the EMI shield after I have the opa627 dual mounted? It seems, logically, it will take up more height, or is there enough clearance?
> 
> And can I use all of the same OpA627 dual mounted in the 3 slots? or only in the I/V slots, and the buffer i have to use some thing different?
> 
> ...


 
  That looks like the correct part for being used with the STX's DIP-8 slot.
   
  Looks like the OPA627 is a single channel op-amp and the LM6172 is a dual channel.
  The SOIC is the op-amps that needs to be soldered, the DIP-8 op-amps are just pressed into the DIP-8 slot.
  So you would need to have two OPA627 SOIC op-amps soldered to a DUAL SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
   
  On eBay, the seller audjade_chn will take used SOIC op-amps and solder them on to an adapter.
  Audjade chn is were I bought my AD797BR (pre-soldered) op-amps for my STX.


----------



## elwappo99

Hoping to get a little help on a weird issue I've been having.
   
  I'm running completely stock on the whole unit. When I'm running RCA outs, if volume is past 50% I start to get distortion. If I run the headphone out exclusively, I don't get any distortion at all. I swapped out the buffer Opamp, but ran into the same issue. Any ideas what's causing this?


----------



## stv014

What amplifier do you have connected to the RCA outs ? Maybe it cannot handle the full scale (~2.15 Vrms) voltage of the line output. Do you also get the same distortion if you drive headphones directly from the line output using the RCA->1/8" female jack adapter included with the card ?


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> What amplifier do you have connected to the RCA outs ? Maybe it cannot handle the full scale (~2.15 Vrms) voltage of the line output. Do you also get the same distortion if you drive headphones directly from the line output using the RCA->1/8" female jack adapter included with the card ?


 
   
  Figured this was my next step, but I didn't have an easy way to do it without rearranging everything. 
   
  Oddly enough, going from the headphone jack to the amplifier does not give off any distortion at all. I'm pretty lost and what would cause this.


----------



## jincuteguy

Where do you guys buy these op-amps for the STX / Claro Halo? Like is there a website that sell them besides Ebay?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jincuteguy said:


> Where do you guys buy these op-amps for the STX / Claro Halo? Like is there a website that sell them besides Ebay?


 
  I bought pre-soldered used AD797BR op-amps from this seller on eBay.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261176178327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf503697


----------



## rvcjew

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I bought pre-soldered used AD797BR op-amps from this seller on eBay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261176178327?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccf503697


 
  Bookmarked that and will get them eventually, thanks. so i need to purchase three of those sets makes sense, and the emi shield still clears after that?
   
  EDIT: found 3x49720NA for 8 bucks at mouser electronics will give them a shot too.


----------



## Redshift Rider

Since m-stage entered the picture, my impressions on various opamps changed quite a bit.
   
  Using essence as a dac only i found the 3x49720NA to be the most pleasing combination.
  Enormous soundstage, good separation, nice bass and very dynamic, exciting sound with a bit forward mids.
   
  My previous favourites were 2xAD797BR (IV) with headphone out, but they are quite disappointing in 2xAD797BR+49720NA(buffer) combination. Very flat and sterile, with dynamics completely sucked out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, and average soundstage. 
   
  Received the 3x49720HA today and testing this combination right now. I can immediately tell they have the biggest soundstage i have heard yet. This combination keeps all the good stuff about 3x49720NA , but they clean the sound up nicely, push the mids back a bit, and bring nice sparkle to the highs. I can't tell the difference in bass quantity. 
  These will be staying in place.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rvcjew said:


> Bookmarked that and will get them eventually, thanks. so i need to purchase three of those sets makes sense, and the emi shield still clears after that?
> 
> EDIT: found 3x49720NA for 8 bucks at mouser electronics will give them a shot too.


 
  If you get the AD797BRs, make sure they are well pressed into the slot, The AD797BRs only a few millimeters from the EMI shield.
   
  Could just try the 49720s for now, only $8.
   
  The STX's buffer chip, the LM4652 and the LME49720 are the same chip.
  (What I was told).


----------



## elwappo99

So after about 3 hours of swapping out opamps and restarting my computer, I still have not figured out why I'm getting so much distortion off the RCA jacks. The headphone still has no distortion on it at all. If anyone ever gets a solution for this, I'd love to hear it.


----------



## Gustav Mahler

elwappo99 said:


> So after about 3 hours of swapping out opamps and restarting my computer, I still have not figured out why I'm getting so much distortion off the RCA jacks. The headphone still has no distortion on it at all. If anyone ever gets a solution for this, I'd love to hear it.




I looked back through the thread....I don't think you ever told us what you're driving from the line out. It might help if you shared that information. I have no difficulty using them on my card...they run to a Music First Classic pre-amp then to my Bryston 3B which drives my speakers.

Cheers!

Gus


----------



## elwappo99

Quote: 





gustav mahler said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's a Matrix M-stage. I'm usually good at narrowing out issues, but I've basically given up on this one. I have no clue what could have caused this issue. What's unusual is it seems to developed over time. I've had this card for a few years now. Thanks for the help though!


----------



## Gustav Mahler

elwappo99 said:


> It's a Matrix M-stage. I'm usually good at narrowing out issues, but I've basically given up on this one. I have no clue what could have caused this issue. What's unusual is it seems to developed over time. I've had this card for a few years now. Thanks for the help though!




I did find this post regarding the gain settings on the M-stage.....might be worth a look.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/552411/backwards-gain-settings-on-matrix-m-stage

Cheers!

Gus


----------



## connieflyer

Interesting read on the xonar stu here on head fi.  http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stu/reviews/9307  near the end he describes his take on the op amps with the stu and we may be able to use it to help decide which op amps for the essence stx.


----------



## foreign

I've got an stx and an external amp I need some help there is a slight hum(white noise) using the external amp. How do I eliminate this? Any advice would be appreciated as I'm struggling to find an answer. Thankyou


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





foreign said:


> I've got an STX and an external amp I need some help there is a slight hum(white noise) using the external amp. How do I eliminate this? Any advice would be appreciated as I'm struggling to find an answer. Thankyou


 
  Your hooking the external amp to the RCA outputs on the Essence STX?


----------



## foreign

Ye





purpleangel said:


> Your hooking the external amp to the RCA outputs on the Essence STX?



Yeah that's right. Unfortunately if I move the mouse for example I can hear it through the speakers. I'm sending the amp for a replacement hope this sorts it out. Even if I plug the amp straight into the headphone socket of the stx (double amp) the same thing happens.  might be a grounding issue the tube amp does sound good but when no music is coming thru the hiss is quite annoying.


----------



## Darkheart

Hi,
  I have bought an used Xonar Essence ST with 5.1 extension board and default op-amps installed and I don't like the sound signature. It sounds too distant, a bit cold and unnatural and I could not listen to it for a long time. My previous sound card ESI Maya44 seems more balanced, more natural and neutral and it has cheap JRC4580 op-amps.
   
  Any suggestions, which op-amp should I try? I will use only RCA outs.


----------



## xeizo

darkheart said:


> Hi,
> I have bought an used Xonar Essence ST with 5.1 extension board and default op-amps installed and I don't like the sound signature. It sounds too distant, a bit cold and unnatural and I could not listen to it for a long time. My previous sound card ESI Maya44 seems more balanced, more natural and neutral and it has cheap JRC4580 op-amps.
> 
> Any suggestions, which op-amp should I try? I will use only RCA outs.




I'm happy with those in my sig ....


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





darkheart said:


> Hi,
> I have bought an used Xonar Essence ST with 5.1 extension board and default op-amps installed and I don't like the sound signature. It sounds too distant, a bit cold and unnatural and I could not listen to it for a long time. My previous sound card ESI Maya44 seems more balanced, more natural and neutral and it has cheap JRC4580 op-amps.
> 
> Any suggestions, which op-amp should I try? I will use only RCA outs.


 
  I'm assuming your using this setup with 5.1 speakers?
  Are you planning on replacing all 12 op-amps? or just 8?
   
  LME49720 (get 8 of them) would be something low budget to try.


----------



## Darkheart

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm assuming your using this setup with 5.1 speakers?
> Are you planning on replacing all 12 op-amps? or just 8?


 
   
  Currently I am using biamped 4 channel DIY open baffle speaker setup with PC based 24db crossovers. There are widerange driver that plays 80hz and up + bass driver crossed at 80hz too, but actually it is supporting upper driver till 180hz or so. Later I am planning to add surround speakers, but for now 6 op-amps would be enough.


----------



## Darkheart

Are there some Audio-Gd discrete op-amp users? How do they compare to best ICs op-amps? Anyone who has compared both and prefers ICs over discrete ones?


----------



## bruiselee

my AD797BR just arrived... installed them and they do much better than the stock ones..
  was actually comtemplating to change from essence stx to Audio Gd NFB 3.33 before i got my op-amps changed..
  Not so sure now, and one else made the change from a AD797BR to a NFB 3.33 ? got any feedback?


----------



## worms

Hello everyone STX.
  For over a month I play 250ohm Beyerdynamic DT770Pro and this sound card, I'm mega happy, but I am looking to continue op-amp that will be better than LM49990AM, using only the headphone output.
  I am very tempted Muses, 8820, 8920, 01, 02, but do not know if I will play it better and is it worth it to invest in them, have LM49990.
  Or maybe someone has already done the test and advise me of the Muses, and who to choose?
  On the shelf still has LM49720HA that came to me three days ago, but I could not see them yet.Sorry for my english.


----------



## mrlimbo

Ive got 2 x  Muses01 & 1 x  LM49990 to go in , but with all this bloody great weather were having in the UK , i havent a chance to put them in yet !!!


----------



## worms

I ordered a trial Muses 8820, see what I can do with respect to 49990.
  I did not understand the above statement, that kind of weather prevented the purchase muses, oh well, maybe I misunderstood something, we are sorry but if conditions are unfavorable.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





worms said:


> I ordered a trial Muses 8820, see what I can do with respect to 49990.
> I did not understand the above statement, that kind of weather prevented the purchase muses, oh well, maybe I misunderstood something, we are sorry but if conditions are unfavorable.


 
  LOL no sorry the weathers been so good for the last 4 weeks , ive been spending all my spare time outside etc so havent found time to install them yet , as its a rather long winded affair with my setup !!! , im not complaining though , its our first Summer in 6 years !!!!!!


----------



## aleex

Noob Q's. Exactly what is sampling rate/scale? Does it matter which setting you use? (44.1, 48 kHz etc).


----------



## Kjeldsen

Whats your favorite way of connecting an external amp to the Essence ST/X? 
   
  1) Double amping through the Headphone out?
  2) Through RCA ?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Whats your favorite way of connecting an external amp to the Essence ST/X?
> 
> 1) Double amping through the Headphone out?
> 2) Through RCA ?
> ...


 
  I had no proplem double amping with the DGX  , but it was terrible with the STX ? so RCA is the way for me !!


----------



## Kjeldsen

Quote: 





mrlimbo said:


> I had no proplem double amping with the DGX  , but it was terrible with the STX ? so RCA is the way for me !!


 
   
  Interesting. What was terrible about it?


----------



## Magister Mundus

About the LME49990 op-amp...
   
  I have a Xonar STX card and would like to buy 3x in order to try the combination, but I'm not sure where to buy it.
   
  Ebay?
   
  Can someone please direct me to the cheapest one on eBay for "3x quantity" who ships to Brazil?
   
  Thank you.


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





magister mundus said:


> About the LME49990 op-amp...
> 
> I have a Xonar STX card and would like to buy 3x in order to try the combination, but I'm not sure where to buy it.
> 
> ...


 
  frugalphile on Ebay comes highly recommended , many on here have bought from him 
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190762476231?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## mrlimbo

Quote: 





kjeldsen said:


> Interesting. What was terrible about it?


 
  The sound !!


----------



## demontux

how good the STX with the Q701 ? does it give them any added fullness or improve them ? how does the amp of the STX work with Q701 ? (not talking just on volume) does it add or get them to their full potential ? thanks


----------



## foreign

Double amping for me created low amounts of white noise which isn't the external amp but the card ?? Initially thought it was the tube amp but after a replacement and buying an external dac to test it everything was flawless. Just seems the stx doesn't like an additional source in my case anyway lol


----------



## bcschmerker4

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Double amping for me created low amounts of white noise which isn't the external amp but the card ?? Initially thought it was the tube amp but after a replacement and buying an external dac to test it everything was flawless. Just seems the stx doesn't like an additional source in my case anyway lol


 

 For an external amplifier, e.g. my Pyle® PCA-2 40Wx2 RMS solid-state power amp, I prefer to tap from the dual-RCA analog output to get around any noise-floor issue that double-amping would cause.  The onboard Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 does generate a small amount of noise at its outputs, as is the case with most amplifiers - nature of analog electronics.


----------



## foreign

Ino





bcschmerker4 said:


> For an external amplifier, e.g. my Pyle® PCA-2 40Wx2 RMS solid-state power amp, I prefer to tap from the dual-RCA analog output to get around any noise-floor issue that double-amping would cause.  The onboard Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 does generate a small amount of noise at its outputs, as is the case with most amplifiers - nature of analog electronics.



I noticed this aswell that's why I bought an external little dot dac 1 to pair with my tube amp. For gaming I really do love the stx but for music the tube amp and little dot dac via toslink or USB does just have a little more warmth/bigger soundstage and airiness to it. For some reason the RCA out on the STX just used to produce a bit of distortion out of the tube amp. Maybe its just my pc but with USB or digital Toslink its completely gone and sounds flawless.


----------



## xeizo

It's not very strange the ST/STX distorts when using the RCA:s in some combinations, that's because ST/STX outputs a more powerful signal over RCA than what most consumer electronics are constructed to handle. It works fine with professional equipment, but not with all consumer gear.

The solution is very simple, just turn down the volume on the ST/STX to max 76% of full volume or -6dB and it will output a more standard signal = no more distortion!


----------



## foreign

xeizo said:


> It's not very strange the ST/STX distorts when using the RCA:s in some combinations, that's because ST/STX outputs a more powerful signal over RCA than what most consumer electronics are constructed to handle. It works fine with professional equipment, but not with all consumer gear.
> 
> The solution is very simple, just turn down the volume on the ST/STX to max 76% of full volume or -6dB and it will output a more standard signal = no more distortion!



No it's still there the distortion using RCA is at low level volume aswell as high. It's as if the stx isn't shielded properly as the tube amp is quite powerful it picks up everything. If I use any other source there isn't distortion no matter what volume is set at laptop, iPod , CD player , DVD player. So its safe to say its the stx and not my as you put it consumer grade tube amp .


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





foreign said:


> No it's still there the distortion using RCA is at low level volume aswell as high. It's as if the stx isn't shielded properly as the tube amp is quite powerful it picks up everything. If I use any other source there isn't distortion no matter what volume is set at laptop, iPod , CD player , DVD player. So its safe to say its the stx and not my as you put it consumer grade tube amp .


 
   
  Shielding should not affect distortion, only noise. Do you really get distortion (like clipping), or noise/interference that is there even when nothing is playing ? If the latter, and it only appears with the tube amp, you may have a ground loop. If it is really distortion, even at relatively low volume, you may have a faulty card, because it should not distort, even at 100% volume.


----------



## foreign

The distortion only happens when there's no noise if I move the mouse for example I can actually hear it through the headphones. When I connect via:
1. stx - spidf (toslink) - ext dac -tube amp - hd650 there's no distortion.

2. stx - RCA out - tube amp - hd650 distortion present.

3. Stx - double amp (tube amp) - hd 650 distortion present.

4. (if i dont use Stx in the equation) USB - ext dac - tube amp - hd650 there's no distortion. 
Mind you the amp is always plugged into the same power socket from the wall. Guess it could be as you said ground loop issue.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





foreign said:


> The distortion only happens when there's no noise if I move the mouse for example I can actually hear it through the headphones. When I connect via:
> 1. stx - spidf (toslink) - ext dac -tube amp - hd650 there's no distortion.
> 
> 2. stx - RCA out - tube amp - hd650 distortion present.
> ...


 
   
  Did you also try STX (headphone output) -> HD650 ? If that is not noisy, then a ground loop is a likely explanation, and is also a common problem for other people who use a grounded external amplifier. Using the same power socket can help to eliminate AC hum from ground loops, but when the source of the ground noise is the computer, it might not fix the problem.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





foreign said:


> The distortion only happens when there's no noise if I move the mouse for example I can actually hear it through the headphones. When I connect via:
> 1. stx - spidf (toslink) - ext dac -tube amp - hd650 there's no distortion.
> 
> 2. stx - RCA out - tube amp - hd650 distortion present.
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like a ground loop problem to me. I have had that exact problem before & it was a ground loop. I eliminated the ground loop & the noise disappeared. What you are hearing is not distortion but electrical noise generated by the computer when the power supply it worked. this noise would normally be eliminated by the ground circuit but if there is a ground loop it won't be eliminated but fed back. Often this is worse than not being grounded at all. With this last statement I want to say I do not recommend eliminating ground as the ground is a safety feature. Only that you need to find the source of the ground loop.


----------



## foreign

germanium said:


> Sounds like a ground loop problem to me. I have had that exact problem before & it was a ground loop. I eliminated the ground loop & the noise disappeared. What you are hearing is not distortion but electrical noise generated by the computer when the power supply it worked. this noise would normally be eliminated by the ground circuit but if there is a ground loop it won't be eliminated but fed back. Often this is worse than not being grounded at all. With this last statement I want to say I do not recommend eliminating ground as the ground is a safety feature. Only that you need to find the source of the ground loop.



Straight out of the stx its fine no problems at all. It really sux because I really do enjoy the tube sound amp for music. What I'm doing is using just the Stx for gaming with senns pc360 and if I listen to music I use the external dac and amp via USB with the hd650. Best of both worlds. The Stx is great for gaming and I like using Dolby for directionality. The Stx is also good for music but I do prefer the tube sound.  ill keep trying to isolate the grounding noise with either a filter or grounded Rcas in the future it might not help but its worth a try. I really did think it might be the case thank you for trying to help me with this dilemma I really appreciate the feedback.


----------



## beepover

I ordered two LM6172's. Should I have ordered 3 and replaced all the opamps on the STX? I have an HD650 and HD600 and hoping the LM6172's give me more focused sound stage (right on stage with musicians), warm sound and high extensions. At least that is the op amp I am looking for. Any recommendations anyone? Should I get a tube amp? Little Dot III or DarkVoice 336.
   
beepover@aol.com
   
  Victor


----------



## derbigpr

Quote: 





beepover said:


> I ordered two LM6172's. Should I have ordered 3 and replaced all the opamps on the STX? I have an HD650 and HD600 and hoping the LM6172's give me more focused sound stage (right on stage with musicians), warm sound and high extensions. At least that is the op amp I am looking for. Any recommendations anyone? Should I get a tube amp? Little Dot III or DarkVoice 336.
> 
> beepover@aol.com
> 
> Victor


 
   
  I have the ST and recently got the Little dot MKIII.  Its...meh...ok I guess, I don't like it very much.  Used with K701, HD650 or T1, it lacks resolution and fidelity compared to the STX output. It doesn't sound as clean and natural. Its soundstage is slightly bigger, but whole tonality of the sound is shifted. I would not call it warm exactly. In fact, to my ears, its highs are quite prominent, it sounds brighter than STX headphone output.  In my opinion its now worth the money. Its just not as good as the STX technically. Now, if you'd like to tube roll and find a darker sounding tube...might work for you, but don't expect miracles. A cheap tube amp is always a hit and miss.
   
  IMHO entry level SS amps sound far better. Like the Musical Fidelity V-CAN MkII for example...nice smooth, non-fatiguing sound, but still very clean and detailed.


----------



## foreign

derbigpr said:


> I have the ST and recently got the Little dot MKIII.  Its...meh...ok I guess, I don't like it very much.  Used with K701, HD650 or T1, it lacks resolution and fidelity compared to the STX output. It doesn't sound as clean and natural. Its soundstage is slightly bigger, but whole tonality of the sound is shifted. I would not call it warm exactly. In fact, to my ears, its highs are quite prominent, it sounds brighter than STX headphone output.  In my opinion its now worth the money. Its just not as good as the STX technically. Now, if you'd like to tube roll and find a darker sounding tube...might work for you, but don't expect miracles. A cheap tube amp is always a hit and miss.
> 
> IMHO entry level SS amps sound far better. Like the Musical Fidelity V-CAN MkII for example...nice smooth, non-fatiguing sound, but still very clean and detailed.



I could be wrong but the little amp mk3 takes a bit of burning in the elements. Had it running for 8hrs a day for just over a week. I find it clean and adds a bit of warmth to the sound. Soundstage is bigger the only time it didn't impress me was the first day or so. Now it wasnt me adjusting to the sound from the tubes as it was left playing while i was at work for 9 days. Then when I put the headphone back on it was a nice little suprise waiting for me. I do prefer the stx for gaming though and think its a fantastic soundcard. But I think tubes aren't for everybody just because I enjoy the sound doesn't mean its for everybody. For example The senns hd650 for me are phenomenal but I have had other people audition the senns and just weren't impressed with them.


----------



## beepover

Thanks for writing about the STX derbigpr. I was not sure the Little Dot would be an upgrade over the STX. I guess I will always be intrigued by a tube amp sound just because I do not have one.


----------



## beepover

Do you have a link of where you can buy LME49720's? I ordered some *LM6172* op amp from ebay, but not sure if I got the right ones. I want to make sure I get the correct op amps.


----------



## bearpc100

Thank you for your thread, I have got a lot of help.

 By the way, can u check the volt of the 2 Caps located right in front of RCA output?

 I have changed these 2 Caps into Nichicon Muse KZ 50v 1000 uf from the backside of PCB. And I can check "0 V" from them while the card is operating. Other Caps show me between 5 to 12V.

 Well..I can hear the music with 2~3 times of "click" sound at the beginning. a while later, I get to be able to keep listening different musics without any problem.

 Do you think there's some problem with "0V" of those 2 Caps?

 Please let me know what show from your Caps right in front of RCA output.


----------



## sssboa

Quote: 





derbigpr said:


> I have the ST and recently got the Little dot MKIII.  Its...meh...ok I guess, I don't like it very much.  Used with K701, HD650 or T1, it lacks resolution and fidelity compared to the STX output. It doesn't sound as clean and natural. Its soundstage is slightly bigger, but whole tonality of the sound is shifted. I would not call it warm exactly. In fact, to my ears, its highs are quite prominent, it sounds brighter than STX headphone output.  In my opinion its now worth the money. Its just not as good as the STX technically. Now, if you'd like to tube roll and find a darker sounding tube...might work for you, but don't expect miracles. A cheap tube amp is always a hit and miss.
> 
> IMHO entry level SS amps sound far better. Like the Musical Fidelity V-CAN MkII for example...nice smooth, non-fatiguing sound, but still very clean and detailed.


 
  I have ST and MKII. I find some headphones sounding better from ST (Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm) and some better from MKII (DT880 600ohm). Rolling tubes gives better results than rolling opamps though most tubes sound too warm to my taste (so I use the Russian ef95 and Mullard's military EF92). With opamps it was that some of them spoilt the sound by muffling it and destroying soundstage (Burr Brown, most AD) and some were just natural and crisp with good soundstage (National Semi. LM4562 and its descendants, the original opamps). I don't like listening on MKII from my PC, ST does it better from PC, I feed MKII from DVD/CD player, sat receiver etc. and through a good DAC with crossfeed.


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





bearpc100 said:


> Thank you for your thread, I have got a lot of help.
> 
> By the way, can u check the volt of the 2 Caps located right in front of RCA output?
> 
> ...


 
  These caps are coupling caps, not power supply caps & they have very low D.C. offset (2-3mv). A meter in many cases may not be able to measure this low voltage if setting is not changed to a lower setting after measuring power supply voltages  Auto ranging multimeters will generally have no issues with this.


----------



## balancebox

we need to start an opamp group buy :/ I would love to try some opamp but don't want to spend so much to find the right ones for me...


----------



## Simcon

I recently moved my stx up from the lower pci-e x16 place to a pci-e x1 spot (which unfortunately happens to be just between the upper pci-e x16 spot and the cpu cooler). An unfortunate consequence here is that the card reaches the same temperatures (I assume, since it gets really hot) as the graphics card, which can range up to 70 °C. Would there be any danger for the card to operate at these temperatures? What temperatures could be deemed safe?

Reason for moving it was that it caused my graphics card at running at x8 instead of x16 (2.x), and although not a big difference with a 7970, it's always buggered my mind.


----------



## bearpc100

Quote: 





germanium said:


> These caps are coupling caps, not power supply caps & they have very low D.C. offset (2-3mv). A meter in many cases may not be able to measure this low voltage if setting is not changed to a lower setting after measuring power supply voltages  Auto ranging multimeters will generally have no issues with this.


 
  Thank you for your answer. But when you say "These caps are coupling caps.", does this mean Nichicon Muse KZ is the coupling Cap? or the spot is for the coupling caps? 
   
  Because the reason I had to change these 2 caps was that old caps (Nichicon Fine Gold 16v 220uf and STX has these kind caps basically) swelled. If the spot (in front of RCA ouput) is for coupling cap, how come those 2 caps got swelled earlier than other caps on the board?
   
  I have replaced the caps beside the opamps into the same Nichicon Muse KZ 50v 1000uf, and I can check 12V from these 2 caps.
   
  Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## KonaBear

Hi everyone,
   
  I just decided to purchase a blu ray drive for my pc so that I could start watching movies using my favorite cans and xonar essence stx.  I really want to watch 1080p movies with 5.1 support through my dolby headphone setup.  Are blu ray disks DTS or dolby or are both supported?  If the blu ray is DTS will my xonar stx still be able to perform Dolby Headphone quality audio using the 5.1 source of the movie?
   
  Cheers


----------



## germanium

Quote: 





konabear said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just decided to purchase a blu ray drive for my pc so that I could start watching movies using my favorite cans and xonar essence stx.  I really want to watch 1080p movies with 5.1 support through my dolby headphone setup.  Are blu ray disks DTS or dolby or are both supported?  If the blu ray is DTS will my xonar stx still be able to perform Dolby Headphone quality audio using the 5.1 source of the movie?
> 
> Cheers


 
  Look here http://www.soundadviceblog.com/blu-ray-audio-explained/


----------



## KonaBear

Quote: 





germanium said:


> Look here http://www.soundadviceblog.com/blu-ray-audio-explained/


 
  thank you!


----------



## foreign

derbigpr said:


> I have the ST and recently got the Little dot MKIII.  Its...meh...ok I guess, I don't like it very much.  Used with K701, HD650 or T1, it lacks resolution and fidelity compared to the STX output. It doesn't sound as clean and natural. Its soundstage is slightly bigger, but whole tonality of the sound is shifted. I would not call it warm exactly. In fact, to my ears, its highs are quite prominent, it sounds brighter than STX headphone output.  In my opinion its now worth the money. Its just not as good as the STX technically. Now, if you'd like to tube roll and find a darker sounding tube...might work for you, but don't expect miracles. A cheap tube amp is always a hit and miss.
> 
> IMHO entry level SS amps sound far better. Like the Musical Fidelity V-CAN MkII for example...nice smooth, non-fatiguing sound, but still very clean and detailed.



 I had the opposite experience I thought the littledot mk3 was a viable upgrade. But an external dac was also purchased as driving the little dot mk3 from the stx sounded the same. But with an external dac and little dot mk3 I'm quite pleased. Tube rolling is fun aswell as an added bonus.


----------



## Mondraker

hi to everybody, i can't read all pages, maybe anybody know what i can do with 2xLT1361 2xLT1364 2xLT1469 without any tweak?


----------



## FangJoker

This sound card sounds great with klipsch 2.1 speakers.  I can't wait to try it out when my hd 650 arrives.


----------



## JohanJ

Initially I was very happy with the sound but after having taken a break from listening to music over the summer I'm a little disappointed with the bass.
 I've got my STX with standard opamps and a pair of ultrasone pro900. They are quite bass heavy to begin with which I was aware of when I bought them but it's more of a "home cinema" rumbling bass, I'm looking for a tighter "music" bass.
  
 Could replacing the opamps be the solution and if so which ones would you suggest?
 I've read the opamps review in this thread and thought about getting LME49720. Someone said you get less tight bass if you put it in the I/V Section which is not good, but someone else said if you put them in the buffer you'll get tighter bass.
 So i guess i should replace the buffer amp with a LME49720 (aka LM4562 ?), should I replace the I/V amps as well or keep the stock ones for buffer?
 Found it in a shop nearby for about $5.
  
 Also, saw someone mention the LME49720ha which seems to be an even bigger improvement.
 Don't seem like they are available here in Sweden though but it's available on ebay for about $15.


----------



## sssboa

johanj said:


> Initially I was very happy with the sound but after having taken a break from listening to music over the summer I'm a little disappointed with the bass.
> I've got my STX with standard opamps and a pair of ultrasone pro900. They are quite bass heavy to begin with which I was aware of when I bought them but it's more of a "home cinema" rumbling bass, I'm looking for a tighter "music" bass.
> 
> Could replacing the opamps be the solution and if so which ones would you suggest?
> ...


 
  
 Isn't LM4562 already in the buffer of the new card?


----------



## bcschmerker4

sssboa said:


> Isn't LM4562 already in the buffer of the new card?


 
 In fact the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM4562N is stock for the line-level buffer and also usable for the I-V, although in my judgment better I-V dual op amps are out there.  Known successors to the LM4562N include two other NSC®/TI® products, the LME49720NA and LME49860NA (JEDEC 8-pin DIP).
  
 I'm looking at adapting the NSC®/TI® LME49990MA, a surface-mount single op amp descended from the LM318A, for the line-level buffer role, as it packs full provisions for Input Balance/Compensation (pins 1, 5) and Output Compensation (pin 8) to further tune the feed to the twin-RCA analog jacks ("2 Speakers"); but be advised that the LME49990MA requires a dual-op-amp adapter PCB to work with the STX'™ JEDEC 8-pin DIP socket for the line-level buffer position, plus a modification to run tantalum power-supply decoupling capacitors directly to +Vcc and -Vss on the STX'™ printed-circuit board.


----------



## Gorric

Has anyone tried, Burr Brown OPA 627 BP on Browndog adapter. In the buffer ??
  
  
http://tamaudio.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=39_46&product_id=91
  
http://www.amazon.com/Burr-Brown-OPA627BP-Dual-Adapter/dp/B00B07M7B2
  
 I'm just curious, because it's suppose to be amazing op amp
  
 Cheers


----------



## foreign

vegasf1 said:


> This sound card sounds great with klipsch 2.1 speakers.  I can't wait to try it out when my hd 650 arrives.



They sound ok with the hd650's however with an external amp the hd650's really do become magnificent. The hd650's seem to sound a little different per source they seem to be a little picky.


----------



## FangJoker

foreign said:


> They sound ok with the hd650's however with an external amp the hd650's really do become magnificent. The hd650's seem to sound a little different per source they seem to be a little picky.


 
  
 I went ahead and bought the schiit bifrost uber/valhalla combo and couldn't be happier.  I just use the stx headphone output for gaming and of course my external 2.1 klipsch speakers.  It has made a difference in sound with the speakers and through the headphones so I don't regret buying it, but yeah the amp/dac really made the hd650 come alive.  
  
 I also changed out the opamps before installing it.  I had clicking issues, but it was because the card wasn't seated all the way in.  The card is built a little poorly and when I screw it in all the way, it seems to shift the connectors in the pci-e slot so I had to bend the part where you screw it in so the card wouldn't lift out when screwed in tightly.


----------



## PurpleAngel

> Originally Posted by *vegasf1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I went ahead and bought the Schiit Bifrost uber/Valhalla combo and couldn't be happier.  I just use the STX headphone output for gaming and of course my external 2.1 Klipsch speakers.  It has made a difference in sound with the speakers and through the headphones so I don't regret buying it, but yeah the amp/dac really made the hd650 come alive.
> 
> I also changed out the op-amps before installing it.  I had clicking issues, but it was because the card wasn't seated all the way in.  The card is built a little poorly and when I screw it in all the way, it seems to shift the connectors in the pci-e slot so I had to bend the part where you screw it in so the card wouldn't lift out when screwed in tightly.


 
 The Essence STX can send Headphone Surround Sound thru it's S/PDIF (optical or coaxial).
 If you connect the Bifrost to the Essence STX using S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), you can still use the Essence STX's headphone surround sound features, while taking advantage of the Bifrost/Valhalla.
 (no need to use the STX's headphone jack anymore).


----------



## foreign

purpleangel said:


> The Essence STX can send Headphone Surround Sound thru it's S/PDIF (optical or coaxial).
> If you connect the Bifrost to the Essence STX using S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), you can still use the Essence STX's headphone surround sound features, while taking advantage of the Bifrost/Valhalla.
> (no need to use the STX's headphone jack anymore).



Yeah it does work pretty good this way, I get distortion thru the rca's but using spidf toslink to an external dac and amp it silent and I still get to use Dolby.


----------



## FangJoker

I use the rca for my powered desktop speakers and still use the headphone output for when watching tv and movies and gaming late at night.  I use the usb port on the comp for schiit uberfrost/valhalla.


----------



## balancebox

Anyone try muses01 on their stx?


----------



## Gustav Mahler

balancebox said:


> Anyone try muses01 on their stx?


 
 Yes...works a treat.


----------



## balancebox

ok order two muses01 to replace I/V
  
 on aliexpress.... hope they come soon
  
 another canadian !


----------



## KeyboardMonkey

Ok so I'm building a new computer and... Really I am just looking to mod the crap out this card. Also, I'm a complete noob looking for money to spend.

The Xonar STX comes with interchangeable OP AMPs and after researching for the best choice of the OP AMPs, I've come across some scary looking mods.

http://www.fotothing.com/fotosofSPACE/photo/1485b7c6a369bd632a957ec914649611/

Is one that I really admire and want to attempt the build if possible.



So now onto the questions...


Is buying the Burson HD 101's cost efficient enough to not buy a normal chip like a LM49720NA for the card?

What is the purpose of the Audio-GD Clock on the mod I listed above? Is it necessary? I've seen some builds with just the 3 Bursons and no Audio-GD Clock.

If I do end up getting the Bursons or the Audio-GD Clock, how would one go about setting up and soldering them onto the STX? If they need to be soldered.

What is the purpose of the EMI sheild that comes stock on the card? I know it shields the chips from EMI (Obviously) but on some mods with 3 Bursons it's completely off. Is this ok?

One last thing, where is a good place to buy the Bursons, Audio-GD Clocks, and other chips?



I realize I'm asking a lot here, but anyone with any information on anything I'm talking about or opinions on the build I'd love to hear.


----------



## mink42

Hey guys, have a question. I'm using my stx as a dedicated DAC>Little dot MKIV>Hd600.
  
 Just wondering is the setup for this simply to connect the RCA cables to the input of the little dot, and set the output of in the xonar centre to 2 speakers?
  
 Also, what volume should I have the STX at?


----------



## balancebox

mink42 said:


> Hey guys, have a question. I'm using my stx as a dedicated DAC>Little dot MKIV>Hd600.
> 
> Just wondering is the setup for this simply to connect the RCA cables to the input of the little dot, and set the output of in the xonar centre to 2 speakers?
> 
> Also, what volume should I have the STX at?


 
  
 you should just stx rca out to Little dot MKIV in
  
 and set stx volume at max and just use Little dot MKIV to adjust the volume
  
 btw how much did the Little dot MKIV cost?


----------



## balancebox

keyboardmonkey said:


> Ok so I'm building a new computer and... Really I am just looking to mod the crap out this card. Also, I'm a complete noob looking for money to spend.
> 
> The Xonar STX comes with interchangeable OP AMPs and after researching for the best choice of the OP AMPs, I've come across some scary looking mods.
> 
> ...


 
  
 well for building a new computer you should really ask your self what size you're going for... I have a like first gen i7 920... back then it was like full tower but I'm thinking of moving to itx case. with that in mind. I would need external dac/amp look at creative zxr and zx. they're pretty new cards with same dac I believe.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mink42 said:


> Hey guys, have a question. I'm using my STX as a dedicated DAC>Little dot MKIV>Hd600.
> 
> Just wondering is the setup for this simply to connect the RCA cables to the input of the little dot, and set the output of in the Xonar centre to 2 speakers?
> 
> Also, what volume should I have the STX at?


 
 Hopefully you disabled (in the BIOS) the motherboard's on-board audio.
 It appears you have the STX to Little Dot connection setup correctly.
 Set STX to max volume, or at least as high as possible, use the volume control on the Little DOT.
 Might try the third party "Unifed Xonar Drivers" and use Foobar2000 for playing audio files.


----------



## mink42

Thanks! Yup realtek onboard audio is disabled, however the nvidia HD audio is still enabled. 
  
 STX is set to max, RCA cables leading from STX out to LD.
  
 Set at 44.1khz depending on the music played. 
  
 Played through Foobar 
  
 I got my LD for 440NZD, 299USD+44USD shipping


----------



## Onyxius

Hello Everyone, I just ordered the stx and the Sennheiser HD 558's.  Now, I do more gaming and listening to music on my pc than anything else for hours on end since i work from home.  I know in game settings I'm supposed to turn on home cinema for audio but i only know of battlefield 3 that has this option of games i play, i haven't checked on counter strike.  However what settings should i put on other games?  Also, i know when i get these i will be disabling on-board sound and uninstalling the audio drivers.  
  
 What settings should i setup for best optimization for the stx and h558's, oh and I'm running windows 8 64 bit.
  
 thanks guys.


----------



## Novorei

It's time to kiss Essense ST goodbye. Looking for a USB DAC.
  
 Anyone who has both or moved to DAC can recommend an equivalent DAC at good price?
  
 Need to be USB and have RCA. No need for headphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

onyxius said:


> Hello Everyone, I just ordered the stx and the Sennheiser HD 558's.  Now, I do more gaming and listening to music on my pc than anything else for hours on end since i work from home.  I know in game settings I'm supposed to turn on home cinema for audio but i only know of battlefield 3 that has this option of games i play, i haven't checked on counter strike.  However what settings should i put on other games?  Also, i know when i get these i will be disabling on-board sound and uninstalling the audio drivers.
> 
> What settings should i setup for best optimization for the stx and h558's, oh and I'm running windows 8 64 bit.
> 
> thanks guys.


 
 Disable on-board audio when you install an add-on sound card.
 Might try the third party "Unified Xonar Drivers".


----------



## Onyxius

ok thanks, ill give the regular drivers a try first, if i run into problems i will try the other ones.  this is the right page right?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
  
 I was in fact having issues with the regular xonar essence drivers, installing unified drivers are working great.  I actually spent about 30 min to an hour setting up the settings and tweaking, music sounds amazing, then i launched BF3, enabled the Home cinema, left 7.1 in the xonar audio center and everything else the same and WOW..


----------



## Redshift Rider

novorei said:


> It's time to kiss Essense ST goodbye. Looking for a USB DAC.
> 
> Anyone who has both or moved to DAC can recommend an equivalent DAC at good price?
> 
> Need to be USB and have RCA. No need for headphone.


 
  
 I am looking too. I have my eye on ODAC with RCA output.
 JDSlabs - 159 $ 
 head n hifi - 110* **€*


----------



## foreign

mink42 said:


> Hey guys, have a question. I'm using my stx as a dedicated DAC>Little dot MKIV>Hd600.
> 
> Just wondering is the setup for this simply to connect the RCA cables to the input of the little dot, and set the output of in the xonar centre to 2 speakers?
> 
> Also, what volume should I have the STX at?



I tried using Rcas but got distortion thru the tube amp, I ended up using toslink cable and bought an external dac and use the stx as a transport. I can use Dolby and all settings it by passes the stx dac and amp. No distortion at all. Try tube rolling on the little dot there are some beautiful sounding tubes which have more detail and impact versus the stock. The stock tubes are good aswell but mullards and voskod ef95 sound fantastic.


----------



## agentdark45

Hi all, just joined up after reading this thread for the hundredth time (and going round in circles).
  
 Can someone simply recommend me the "best" / most up to date op-amp combo for the STX? I realise that what I'm asking is quite subjective due to the length of this thread, but I can't seem to find a definitive set of answers, or narrow down the candidates.
  
 99% of the time I'm listening to music through my speakers. I mostly listen to metal / dub...however I still like neutral, wide sound. I'm in the UK, if thats of any significance...
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

Found the best op amp combo.
  
 2x pairs (4 total) OPA627BM in the I/V.
 1 AD8066AR in the buffer.
  
 Excellent top end openness and sound from the OPA627BM, with the powerful bass of the AD8066AR, best so far. Using K702.65. Incredibly balanced sound, and low end capable of pleasing everyone.


----------



## Meh

Has anyone used an external amp with this card? Specifically the Schiit Magni/Bravo Ocean?


----------



## PurpleAngel

meh said:


> Has anyone used an external amp with this card? Specifically the Schiit Magni/Bravo Ocean?


 
 I've used an O2 amp with my STX.
 Why asking about the Magni & Ocean?


----------



## foreign

meh said:


> Has anyone used an external amp with this card? Specifically the Schiit Magni/Bravo Ocean?



I have used the bitfrost and wa6se and it sounds awesome but its almost 4 times the price of the stx so no surprises there.


----------



## Meh

purpleangel said:


> I've used an O2 amp with my STX.
> Why asking about the Magni & Ocean?


 
  
 Because those 2 are in my price range. But how's the O2?


----------



## PurpleAngel

meh said:


> Because those 2 are in my price range. But how's the O2?


 
 O2 is fine, I'll plug it into my Essence STX when I'm using low impedance headphones.
 If you do not have the STX yet, then it's better (cheaper) to get the Xonar DX or D1 and plug an external headphone amplifier (O2 or Ocean or other) into it.


----------



## Meh

I've had the STX for a while already actually lol


----------



## PurpleAngel

meh said:


> I've had the STX for a while already actually lol


 
 Unless you have some headphones that are under 50-Ohm, can't see the O2 or Magni offering a big improvement, maybe a little bit as the STX uses all three of it's op-amps with the line-out (RCA).
  
 Maybe sell off the STX and get the DX or D1 for use with an external headphone amp.


----------



## Meh

I was looking at the Bravo Ocean because it's on sale for under $100. I currently have the Philips X1 and the Sennheiser Momentum but will get higher end ones in the future.


----------



## howzz1854

i was just looking into the Essence One Muses edition. OMG.. those Muses 01 opams are $50 each!!!!. has anyone tried rolling those in our STX? does it make that much difference? Better difference? i mean for $50 a pop, it better make me come!!!


----------



## agentdark45

howzz1854 said:


> i was just looking into the Essence One Muses edition. OMG.. those Muses 01 opams are $50 each!!!!. has anyone tried rolling those in our STX? does it make that much difference? Better difference? i mean for $50 a pop, it better make me come!!!


 
  
 I'm wondering this too. Seems like people are spending the same amount of money experimenting with different op-amps, why not just go straight for the best?
  
 I wouldn't mind shelling out if the sound quality was amazing.


----------



## PurpleAngel

meh said:


> I was looking at the Bravo Ocean because it's on sale for under $100. I currently have the Philips X1 and the Sennheiser Momentum but will get higher end ones in the future.


 
 The Philips X1s are only 30-Ohm and the Senn Momentum are only 18-Ohm, for those the best amp choice would seem to be a very low impedance solid state headphone amplifier, some tube amps might not drive low impedance headphones at their best, not sure about the Bravo Ocean, i think it might be a hybrid, tube and solid state?
  
 Technically the STX's 10-ohm output impedance is a little high for the X1 and Momentums.
 A solid state amp with around a 1-Ohm impedance (Magni) would make better sense for driving those two headphones. But I do use my 32-ohm AKG K550 with my STX and so far it sounds fairly good.


----------



## Powahlam

Hey i recently got a dt880 600ohm w/ a Essence STX. Just wondering what is a good amp to add on adjust the volume as i hate alt tabbing out of something just to lower it down also i guess it would be an upgrade to the overall sound quality looking to spend within $200. 

 Since im fairly new, is there a specific way i should be setting up the Headphone in the Xonar program ?? i just have the +18DB(MAX) for the 600ohm, the (HF) on using 44.1 khz with 2 channels. Is there anything else i should use for listening to music / gaming ?? thanks in advance !


----------



## foreign

Well you can try Dolby and see if you like it, I think majority of people do 
. Just make sure the xonar stx settings are on 600ohm settings and not at default 32ohms.


----------



## PurpleAngel

To my fellow Essence STX owners, any of you by any chance also own the Audio-GD 15.32.
 I'm thinking of getting the Audio-GD 15.32, but want to know if in some way there is a noticeable improvement over the STX?


----------



## superfedya

Hi guys,
  
 I just have a few questions.
  
 I remplaced my amps by 3x *LME49720 *(including the buffer amp). Was it the good idea to changing the buffer amp?
  
 Also, *LME49720 *is still the best choice today? Is there is something better, cost no object?
  
 And what is the better choice for buffer amp?
  
 Thanks


----------



## howzz1854

i always find the 49720 to be too light on bass. unless your headphone is already heavy on bass, the stock one works better and most neutral in terms of soundstage, tonality, bass, treble and mid. if anything the stock op amps are just a tad bit on the bright side.


----------



## superfedya

I use AKG 702.

How about buffer oamps? What is better - stock buffer oamp, LME49720NA or maybe OPA627 (or OPa2107Ap)?

How about replacing LME49720 to LME49860NA?

Somebody tried 2 x LME49860NA and 1 x OPA627 for the buffer?

What is the best oamps combination?

Thanks


----------



## OneSec

superfedya said:


> I use AKG 702.
> 
> How about buffer oamps? What is better - stock buffer oamp, LME49720NA or maybe OPA627 (or OPa2107Ap)?
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread/2700#post_7858247
  
 I was in a very similar situation so I post my previous finding for you. Hands down on LME49860NA, but I can not comment on the buffer. Do you use the RCA out? Otherwise you should just ignore the buffer.
  
 Good luck!
  
*Q: What's the deal with interchangeable opamps?*
 A: The card has 3 swappable 8-pin dual opamps. The two matched I/V opamps impact the headphone out alone, while the 3rd "buffer" opamp impacts the RCA out. If you are only using the headphone out you only have to worry about the 2 I/V opamps. They can be removed and replaced using your fingers, a small flathead screwdriver, needle nose pliers, etc.


----------



## Powahlam

is buying from ebay a good idea for oamps ?? and this will work perfectly w/ the stx right ??
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dual-Audio-Operational-Amplifier-LME49860NA-NOPB-National-DE2349-/310725375944?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4858acf7c8&_uhb=1


----------



## PurpleAngel

powahlam said:


> is buying from ebay a good idea for oamps ?? and this will work perfectly w/ the stx right ??
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Dual-Audio-Operational-Amplifier-LME49860NA-NOPB-National-DE2349-/310725375944?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4858acf7c8&_uhb=1


 

 Those op-amps will work in the DIP-8 slots on the Essence STX.
 The LME49860 are the same as the LME49720 and LM4562, the LME49860 is just the cherry pick because it supports a great voltage range.


----------



## JohnnyReef

I have had Creative for many years, last one was X-Fi Fatality Champion Pro which i thought was the best available. My brothers Sennheiser 580 headset really wasnt impressive (i thought) even though articles everywhere claimed its one of the better. 
  
 Just installed Xonar Essence STX and im not joking when i say i am hearing music for the first time. The 580's now have a clarity and punch that i thought didnt exist with these headsets. Sound is so incredibly good that i find myself looking over the shoulder constantly to see if someone is playing guitar right next to my ear. Seriously, not sure if its the AMP on this card or if its the card itself or both, but Asus has demolished Creative with this card. 
  
 Whats good is that i finally have no noise which the Creative card could have especially in high volumes. This card cancels out everything that could interfere with the card. Im really blown away, nothing more to say.


----------



## superfedya

Anybody tried this with Xonar STX?
Valab Gold Plated 0.3PPM 11.2896 MHz Low Jitter Low Phase Noise TCXO
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/300951900667?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1899wt_758


----------



## wanted110

Hi everyone !
  
 Changed stock JRC  by LME49710HA x2 on homemade pcb :
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/41/1381514651-dsc00002.jpg
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2013/41/1381514653-dsc00005.jpg
 They do sound way better than LME49720NA for sure, sound so great ! Near to come, TXCO ...


----------



## PurpleAngel

johnnyreef said:


> I have had Creative for many years, last one was X-Fi Fatality Champion Pro which i thought was the best available. My brothers Sennheiser 580 headset really wasnt impressive (i thought) even though articles everywhere claimed its one of the better.
> 
> Just installed Xonar Essence STX and im not joking when I say I am hearing music for the first time. The 580's now have a clarity and punch that i thought didnt exist with these headsets. Sound is so incredibly good that i find myself looking over the shoulder constantly to see if someone is playing guitar right next to my ear. Seriously, not sure if its the AMP on this card or if its the card itself or both, but Asus has demolished Creative with this card.
> 
> Whats good is that i finally have no noise which the Creative card could have especially in high volumes. This card cancels out everything that could interfere with the card. Im really blown away, nothing more to say.


 

 Did you delete all the Creative software?
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
 Try the third party drivers "Unified Xonar Drivers".
 Trying using Foobar2000 for playing audio files?


----------



## wanted110

JohnnyReef > So believe me, the stock AMP are so bad compared to LME49720HA / AD797BR,they totaly worth the 25/30€ you can pay them on ebay.


----------



## Powahlam

wanted110 said:


> JohnnyReef > So believe me, the stock AMP are so bad compared to LME49720HA / AD797BR,they totaly worth the 25/30€ you can pay them on ebay.


 
 just buying two of those LME49720HA is enough right ??? and is the installation easy and capable with just hands ?


----------



## captain3xtreme

I have owned the Xonar Essence STX for about a year now but something has been driving me crazy and I can't find answers on google. Can anybody tell me if there is a reason to select more than 2 channels when using headphones with this card? Does it improve the surround sound from Dolby Headphone or is it pointless because headphones only have 2 speakers?


----------



## howzz1854

captain3xtreme said:


> I have owned the Xonar Essence STX for about a year now but something has been driving me crazy and I can't find answers on google. Can anybody tell me if there is a reason to select more than 2 channels when using headphones with this card? Does it improve the surround sound from Dolby Headphone or is it pointless because headphones only have 2 speakers?


 
  
 it's only for when you play games or watch movies. other than that, you would use hifi stereo for music listening.


----------



## PurpleAngel

powahlam said:


> Just buying two of those LME49720HA is enough right ??? and is the installation easy and capable with just hands ?


 

 Only need to replace the two I/V op-amps, for the headphones.
 Just need a small Philips head and a really small flat head (for poping out the stock op-amps) screwdriver.


----------



## superfedya

What is the best crystal clock for STX? And most important, when I can buy ig?


----------



## wanted110

Powahlam
   -> Yes just 2x LME49720HA ( HA do is important! ) and bend them a bit to make them fit, you can google image this  
  
 superfedya -> Vanguard TCXO from ebay, about 30€.  There is only 1 reference when i search it :
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111071282361&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## ady1989

Hello everyone, first time poster here! I've had the Essence STX for a long time now and I am not satisfied with the sound I'm getting through my HD595's. It's decent, but I feel like it could be better. The bass feels lacking and muddled while the highs seem too harsh. I had a very ghetto setup dedicated to my headphones, including an old Sony receiver and it seemed a bit better. That being said, I am content with what I'm getting out of my speakers but there's always room for improvement! Can someone please recommend some Op Amps that are best matched with my setup? Thanks a ton!
  
*Xonar Essence STX --*> custom RCA cables -> NAD C730 Stereo Receiver -> Polk TSi 500 towers and Polk 8" sub
                             --> Sennheiser HD 595 w/ soundstage mod


----------



## Sandbo

It was said that all these 498XX/497XX are defected with bass being suppressed, you may find a more detailed discussion at page around 200,
 so now I am getting this LME49990:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/190928099571?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 They are single channel per chip, so you will need 2 of them soldered on a single mount to install on the asus card. I don't have soldering tools at hand so I ordered the finished version, 
 3 of them arriving by Nov. Will see if there is any real improvement over stock amps.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ady1989 said:


> Hello everyone, first time poster here! I've had the Essence STX for a long time now and I am not satisfied with the sound I'm getting through my HD595's. It's decent, but I feel like it could be better. The bass feels lacking and muddled while the highs seem too harsh. I had a very ghetto setup dedicated to my headphones, including an old Sony receiver and it seemed a bit better. That being said, I am content with what I'm getting out of my speakers but there's always room for improvement! Can someone please recommend some Op Amps that are best matched with my setup? Thanks a ton!
> 
> *Xonar Essence STX --*> custom RCA cables -> NAD C730 Stereo Receiver -> Polk TSi 500 towers and Polk 8" sub
> --> Sennheiser HD 595 w/ soundstage mod


 
 LME49720 are a low cost (under $10) way of improving the Essence STX's audio quality.
 I use three AD797BRs op-amps in my STX, LME49990 have gotten good reviews.
 both cost around $50 for three.
 Technically with the LME49990 and AD797BRs you need to use 6 op-amps (cost $50) as they have to be added in pairs to the three DIP-8 slots on the STX
  
 Have you compared the audio quality of the HD595 plugged into the Essence STX and the NAD?
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio when you installed the Essence STX?


----------



## ady1989

Thanks for the replies as well as the link Sandbo. I should have mentioned before that cost is not an issue. Which op-amps would be better suited specifically for the 595's, do you think?
  
 To answer your questions PurpleAngel - yeah I've disabled onboard audio long ago and the jump to the Xonar was like day and night but I now want to see the full potential of the STX. Saves me from building a dedicated headphone amp, at least for the time being (with the only concern being my wallet). While the NAD is an awesome receiver for the speakers, it doesn't shine with the headphones. The Sony sounded much better to me but I don't have enough desk room for a giant setup just for the cans. By the way, the C730 was free! It was just collecting dust and given to me


----------



## ady1989

purpleangel said:


> LME49720 are a low cost (under $10) way of improving the Essence STX's audio quality.
> I use three AD797BRs op-amps in my STX, LME49990 have gotten good reviews.
> both cost around $50 for three.
> Technically with the LME49990 and AD797BRs you need to use 6 op-amps (cost $50) as they have to be added in pairs to the three DIP-8 slots on the STX
> ...


 
  
 I was playing around with my audio setup last night and boy, do I ever feel dumb. I did NOT have on-board audio disabled. I can't believe I've been "using" this card for 2 years like that. Audio quality went up dramatically when I installed it but nothing like this. Since I have an IT background I should know better - I can only bow my head in shame! The headphones sound worlds better but the sound is not nice and defined like I would prefer. The bass sounds muddy and everything else is distant and almost hollow/tin-can like. I ordered 3xLME49990 op-amps today and I'll be giving that a shot. Thanks for asking me about the on-board audio or I would have never checked. I was dead sure I had it all set up properly when I built and overclocked the system.
  
 How hot do the LME49990 op-amps get? If it's a big concern I could easily fab up some aluminum heatsinks.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ady1989 said:


> I was playing around with my audio setup last night and boy, do I ever feel dumb. I did NOT have on-board audio disabled. I can't believe I've been "using" this card for 2 years like that. Audio quality went up dramatically when I installed it but nothing like this. Since I have an IT background I should know better - I can only bow my head in shame! The headphones sound worlds better but the sound is not nice and defined like I would prefer. The bass sounds muddy and everything else is distant and almost hollow/tin-can like. I ordered 3xLME49990 op-amps today and I'll be giving that a shot. Thanks for asking me about the on-board audio or I would have never checked. I was dead sure I had it all set up properly when I built and overclocked the system.
> 
> How hot do the LME49990 op-amps get? If it's a big concern I could easily fab up some aluminum heatsinks.


 

 I'm assuming you ordered the 6 LME49990 op-amps presoldered in pairs on to three Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapters?
 I'm not aware of any heat issues with the LME49990.
  
 What gain setting for the headphone amplifier, do you have set on the STX?


----------



## ady1989

purpleangel said:


> I'm assuming you ordered the 6 LME49990 op-amps presoldered in pairs on to three Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapters?
> I'm not aware of any heat issues with the LME49990.
> 
> What gain setting for the headphone amplifier, do you have set on the STX?


 
  
 Yep, I ordered 3 of these: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/190928099571?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 I'm using normal (0 db) gain for the 595's.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ady1989 said:


> Yep, I ordered 3 of these: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/190928099571?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> I'm using normal (0 db) gain for the 595's.


 

 That is the exact eBay seller I was going to recommend.
 You might try setting the gain on the STX to "64~300-Ohm", might improve audio quality.


----------



## ady1989

purpleangel said:


> That is the exact eBay seller I was going to recommend.
> You might try setting the gain on the STX to "64~300-Ohm", might improve audio quality.


 
 I tried that and while the bass seems to sound a little deeper the definition issue is still there. It makes it louder and I actually have no idea if it's placebo or if it actually sounds better. Besides the op-amps, what else can I change on this card? I have read about changing the clock and the power supply - are there any guides on doing so?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ady1989 said:


> I tried that and while the bass seems to sound a little deeper the definition issue is still there. It makes it louder and I actually have no idea if it's placebo or if it actually sounds better. Besides the op-amps, what else can I change on this card? I have read about changing the clock and the power supply - are there any guides on doing so?


 
 I'm not too knowledageable about other hardware updates, besides the op-amps
  
 Try the third party drivers "Unified Xonar Drivers".
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 Foobar2000
 http://www.foobar2000.org/
  
 Might be time to sell off the HD595 are get new headphones.


----------



## ady1989

Yeah, I think you're right about getting new cans but for the time being the 595's will have to do. It's an expensive hobby, I'll have to sell some rifles to fund an amp building project and new headphones


----------



## howzz1854

sell all the rifles.. what are you gonna do with a bunch of rifles, there're no zombies. with the cans, you can listen to as much music as you want.


----------



## Powahlam

I just got a set of LME 49720HA from ebay but I notice they didn't come with a 8 dip adapter is there a way of installing it by just bending the pins but they are pretty long ??? Or is there a way to just buy the adapter??


----------



## ady1989

howzz1854 said:


> sell all the rifles.. what are you gonna do with a bunch of rifles, there're no zombies. with the cans, you can listen to as much music as you want.


 
  
 I compete with them


----------



## azif

Just got my hd600s after using ad700s for a while.
  
 I have:
 Xonar STX >>> RCA >>> Matrix Mstage >>> HD 600
  
 Can't really hear much of a difference between:
 Xonar STX >>> HD 600
  
  
 Am i doing something wrong, what settings should i be using?


----------



## Redshift Rider

azif said:


> Just got my hd600s after using ad700s for a while.
> 
> I have:
> Xonar STX >>> RCA >>> Matrix Mstage >>> HD 600
> ...


 
  
 Set the output to 2 speakers and set volume to 100 in asus control center (to control volume use m-stage only).
 Set the appropriate gain on the m-stage for HD600. They are 300 ohms, so i guess you should try both 10 and 18 gain settings and see how do you like it.


----------



## Xovaan

Hey everyone, got some questions:
  
 1. If I'm using s/pdif passthrough to an Icon HDP, I will not benefit from OpAmps, correct?
 2. When gaming (Counter-Strike:GO, for example), using s/pdif out, which will offer the greatest precision: 2ch HF, 8ch HF, or 6ch with Dolby Headphone? Open to suggestions!
 3. I mainly listen to Spotify Premium. I assume 24/96 in both the STX panel and the digital out in Windows 7 audio panel with 2ch HF are my best bet for sound quality?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## azif

redshift rider said:


> Set the output to 2 speakers and set volume to 100 in asus control center (to control volume use m-stage only).
> Set the appropriate gain on the m-stage for HD600. They are 300 ohms, so i guess you should try both 10 and 18 gain settings and see how do you like it.


 
  
 Thanks! will have a play, had those settings already on the stx, but will have a play around with the gain.


----------



## wanted110

powahlam said:


> I just got a set of LME 49720HA from ebay but I notice they didn't come with a 8 dip adapter is there a way of installing it by just bending the pins but they are pretty long ??? Or is there a way to just buy the adapter??


 
 You can just bend them a little yes.


----------



## Powahlam

I tried bending one but it seems like it's too long to put the cover back on after =(


----------



## wanted110

powahlam said:


> I tried bending one but it seems like it's too long to put the cover back on after =(


 
 Come on, cut it ^^


----------



## Powahlam

U can cut it ?? And would that impact performance ??? Kinda a noon at this


----------



## wanted110

You can cut the 8 legs to make it shorter without any problem. Look at google image for LME49720HA and you will see one very short cutted on a STX socket.


----------



## iphonedanok

Right,without the slightly undefined bass that I feel they can have at times through the line-outs.thank you


----------



## Powahlam

Plugged it in only one side of the sound works =/ think I broke it when I cut and bent it to make it work .. There goes 25 down the drain


----------



## Novorei

Recently moved a Xonar ST to a new computer and things have changed.
  
 I noticed a lack of definition, muddy sound, listening fatigue.
 Also noticed a very loud floor noise when playing music. I'm not sure if it was there before.
  
 1) The card is in a PCI slot from a Z87 MB. That's not native PCI.
 2) The card is sitting right next to a 480GTX. Haven't tried using on Z87 video.
 3) There's a new PSU which should be better than the last one.
  
 Anyone experienced this kind of behavior?


----------



## PurpleAngel

novorei said:


> Recently moved a Xonar ST to a new computer and things have changed.
> 
> I noticed a lack of definition, muddy sound, listening fatigue.
> Also noticed a very loud floor noise when playing music. I'm not sure if it was there before.
> ...


 

 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?
 Try removing the Asus drivers/software and install the "Unified Xonar Drivers".
 Try using Foobar2000, for playing audio files.


----------



## OneSec

novorei said:


> Recently moved a Xonar ST to a new computer and things have changed.
> 
> I noticed a lack of definition, muddy sound, listening fatigue.
> Also noticed a very loud floor noise when playing music. I'm not sure if it was there before.
> ...


 
 Interesting.
  
 I had ST long time ago, and was in a familiar situation. Couple things I did was:
 1) Place the audio card at the furthest slot, away from other cards
 2) Earth the computer case.
  
 This is probably a bad idea, but I will share it anyway. With extreme caution:
 3) Use an aluminum fold and wrap it around a cardboard, put the cardboard to separate audio card from the rest of the peripherals. Careful there you have to make sure it doesn't touch any component or it MIGHT short your devices - You have been warned  Earth it with option 2.
 I slot the cardboard into one of the PCI slot - but make sure that the bottom part which connects to the PCI slot does not have aluminum fold!


----------



## stv014

> Originally Posted by *Novorei* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also noticed a very loud floor noise when playing music. I'm not sure if it was there before.


 
  
 Do you have anything external connected to the sound card, particularly an amplifier ?
  
 Are you using the front panel headphone jack ?


----------



## Gustav Mahler

novorei said:


> Recently moved a Xonar ST to a new computer and things have changed.
> 
> I noticed a lack of definition, muddy sound, listening fatigue.
> Also noticed a very loud floor noise when playing music. I'm not sure if it was there before.
> ...


 

 No....suggestion...reseat the xonar and listen again...also make sure hda is disabled in the bios...good luck!
  
 Cheers!
  
 Gustav


----------



## eliben85

Hi everyone,

i'm a happy owner of the xonar stx for about a year now but I have a problem that is driving me crazy. The card is picking up noise from the PC all the time and in the past few months it has become very audiable. i hear the hard drives spinning and this very annoying tzzzzt sound. Has anyone experienced this and if so, is there a solution other than getting an external dac? 

Thanks
Eli


----------



## AladdinSane

eliben85 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> i'm a happy owner of the xonar stx for about a year now but I have a problem that is driving me crazy. The card is picking up noise from the PC all the time and in the past few months it has become very audiable. i hear the hard drives spinning and this very annoying tzzzzt sound. Has anyone experienced this and if so, is there a solution other than getting an external dac?
> 
> ...


 
 Front panel or rear jack?  I never got the front panel to quiet down but no noise at all from the rear jack.


----------



## PurpleAngel

eliben85 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm a happy owner of the Xonar Essence STX for about a year now but I have a problem that is driving me crazy. The card is picking up noise from the PC all the time and in the past few months it has become very audiable. I hear the hard drives spinning and this very annoying tzzzzt sound. Has anyone experienced this and if so, is there a solution other than getting an external DAC?


 
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
  
 I'm in the process of replacing my Essence STX with a Audio-GD NFB-15.32 DAC/Amp ($255+ shipping).
 No background noise and does a nice job of driving all my headphones (dual WM8741 DAC chips).
 Comes with USB/optical/coaxial inputs.


----------



## eliben85

I did not disable the on-board audio. Hope I find how to easily :/
I read a few posts back and in some other places about grounding the computer. I'm not entirely sure what that means but the symptoms others who got that advise seem identical. Also, the card makes more noise since I moved to a new flat so it makes me think grounding is the issue. 
I'm using the rca out all the time. I just connected headphones to the headphone out and it makes the same noise, just louder. 
I will disable the on board audio and move the card further from the graphics card and hope that helps. Any advise on grounding would be appreciated


----------



## eliben85

On board audio is disabled (always was it apears) I also removed the video card but the noise is still there. Any advise?


----------



## OverlordMittenz

Just bought this card!  I plan on pairing it with a pair of AKG Q701's.  After I get it all set up, I plan on evaluating whether or not to get a stand alone amp or not (Schiit Magni or O2), and am currently reading through to decide what OP amp upgrades would fit me best.  This set up will mainly be used for gaming, so sound stage, clarity, and slightly less bass or at least less extended becuase I don't want my audio cues be drowned out by explosions and such.  However, I do enjoy music also (Who doesn't?), and some of it is bass, so I'd like to be able to switch between inputs and be able to get more detailed or extended bass for music.  I'm not expecting amazingly extended bass or anything from the Q701s, though.  I mainly chose the Q701s over the K701s because their better overall better usage and did not want to purchase multiple headphones for different uses just yet.  Well, I say me, but I mean the wife.


----------



## PurpleAngel

overlordmittenz said:


> Just bought this card!  I plan on pairing it with a pair of AKG Q701's.  After I get it all set up, I plan on evaluating whether or not to get a stand alone amp or not (Schiit Magni or O2), and am currently reading through to decide what OP amp upgrades would fit me best.  This set up will mainly be used for gaming, so sound stage, clarity, and slightly less bass or at least less extended because I don't want my audio cues be drowned out by explosions and such.  However, I do enjoy music also (Who doesn't?), and some of it is bass, so I'd like to be able to switch between inputs and be able to get more detailed or extended bass for music.  I'm not expecting amazingly extended bass or anything from the Q701s, though.  I mainly chose the Q701s over the K701s because their better overall better usage and did not want to purchase multiple headphones for different uses just yet.  Well, I say me, but I mean the wife.


 

 To me the only real advantage the Magni and O2 have over the STX' amp is with headphones that are under 50-Ohms.
 And you get an external volume knob at your finger tips.
 Also when you hook an external headphone amplifier up to the STX's RCA outputs, you lose Dolby Headphone Surround Sound.
  
 Or you could try what I'm doing, replacing my STX with a Audio-GD NFB-15.32 DAC/amp, $255+shipping.
 As the 15.32 comes with USB and S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) inputs, it can be connected straight to a motherboard and used with lower costing sound card (SB-Z OEM or Xonar DX).


----------



## OverlordMittenz

purpleangel said:


> To me the only real advantage the Magni and O2 have over the STX' amp is with headphones that are under 50-Ohms.
> And you get an external volume knob at your finger tips.
> Also when you hook an external headphone amplifier up to the STX's RCA outputs, you lose Dolby Headphone Surround Sound.
> 
> ...


 
 I had considered other options, although not that one specifically, but the STX is in the price range I have to work with right now.  I might consider a different option down the road, but this is basically the best I can get with the amount of money I have to work with.  I'm already pushing the budget my wife gave me of 150 bucks.  
  
 Ahh, okay, I didn't know I'd lose DH using the RCA. That's saddening.  I guess OP amp upgrades are really my next best option for improving sound until I switch to a different set up.  I'd just use the STX's SPDIF, though.  I'd rather not sell it and then purchase a cheaper sound card with a better quality amp/DAC.  
  
 EDIT: For grammar.


----------



## PurpleAngel

overlordmittenz said:


> I had considering other options, although not that one specifically, but the STX is in the price range I have to work with right now.  I might consider a different option down the road, but this is basically the best I can get with the amount of money I have to work with.  I'm already pushing the budget my wife gave me of 150 bucks.
> 
> Ahh, okay, I didn't know I'd lose DH using the RCA. That's saddening.  I guess OP amp upgrades are really my next best option for improving sound until I switch to a different set up.  I'd just use the STX's SPDIF, though.  I'd rather not sell it and then purchase a cheaper sound card with a better quality amp/DAC.


 

 The Essence STX, ST and Xonar DX & D1 all use the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.
 So the "audio controls" are really the same and everything is equal, when using the S/PDIF optical output.
 But I guess the wife has set your budget.
  
 Check out the LME49990 and AD797BR op-amps, they are around $50 for a set of three (presoldered).
 There are other op-amps options, just can't remember their model numbers.
  
 Might also try the third party "Unified Xonar Drivers".


----------



## OverlordMittenz

purpleangel said:


> The Essence STX, ST and Xonar DX & D1 all use the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.
> So the "audio controls" are really the same and everything is equal, when using the S/PDIF optical output.
> But I guess the wife has set your budget.
> 
> ...


 
 Have the ASUS drivers not been fixed? What would be the benefit of using the Unified Xonar Drivers?


----------



## PurpleAngel

overlordmittenz said:


> Have the ASUS drivers not been fixed? What would be the benefit of using the Unified Xonar Drivers?


 

 From my best understanding, the Unified Xonar drivers are Asus drivers that have been stripped of unnessary stuff and also some enhansement that Asus has not gotten around to incorperating.
 But just search for the 'Unified Xonar Drivers" and read up for yourself.


----------



## ady1989

I've been using the STX with LME49990's from eBay user 'frugalphile' and I just wanted to do a little update for anyone that's thinking about these. They definitely do make a difference. The music is a bit more defined and the biggest difference is in the bass. It's feels way "fuller" and punchier without taking away from the awesome definition. It's almost like the headphones have more power behind them. It's hard to remember exactly what the stock op-amps sounded like since I can't do a side by side comparison but the difference is there. The more I listen the more I enjoy. I apologize but I'm not very good at describing sound.
  
 Was it a HUGE difference over the stock op-amps? No, they were in fact quite decent. Do I regret spending 50 bucks for better ones? To me, it was worth it, it's not a fortune and everything sounds better.
  
 Also, thanks for everyone that helped me decide on the LME49990's as well as helped me with the STX!


----------



## bcschmerker4

Speaking of the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990HA, are there different workable designs of adapter board from the frugalphile@ebay.com kit for the JEDEC 8-pin DIP socket (for replacing the stock JRC2114D dual op amp)?  I anticipate doing some compensation circuitry along with the two '49990HA's at each of the two I/V sockets on _my_ XONAR® Essence™ STX™; as a descendant of the LM318, the LME49990 has Balance/Compensation (rather than Offset Null) provisions for the input side, in addition to an Output Compensation provision.
  
 And links to the alternate adapter boards _would_ be appreciated.


----------



## mchart

eliben85 said:


> On board audio is disabled (always was it apears) I also removed the video card but the noise is still there. Any advise?


 
  
 All I can suggest is to check your grounds and make sure that your motherboard or any other component isn't possibly shorted to the case.


----------



## davisman

I have a few questions, hopefully someone can help me with. I debated on a separate thread but Ill post here first. My audio setup is as follows Foobar2000>Asus Stx Optical out>schiit bifrost> Schiit asgard2. 
  
 Should I set my windows playback to 'Digital output Asus Xonar Essence Stx'? And if so, how do I enable dolby headphone processing, and take use of the Xonar Audio Center?
 Or Should I set it to 'Speakers Asus Xonar Essence Stx audio'? This is how I am currently running with SPDIF OUT enabled. I wish it didnt send a signal to analog out as well, but thats me nitpicking. 
  
 Also, how should I handle different sample rates? Do I have to change the sample rate in Xonar Audio Center? I was hoping that it would send the signal to my Bifrost and not up/down sample. 
  
 Thanks in advance! And I apologize if someone else has already asked this question.


----------



## PurpleAngel

davisman said:


> I have a few questions, hopefully someone can help me with. I debated on a separate thread but Ill post here first. My audio setup is as follows Foobar2000>Asus Stx Optical out>schiit bifrost> Schiit asgard2.
> 
> Should I set my windows playback to 'Digital output Asus Xonar Essence Stx'? And if so, how do I enable dolby headphone processing, and take use of the Xonar Audio Center?
> Or Should I set it to 'Speakers Asus Xonar Essence Stx audio'? This is how I am currently running with SPDIF OUT enabled. I wish it didn't send a signal to analog out as well, but thats me nitpicking.
> ...


 
 "Digital Output Asus Xonar Essence STX" will bypass the STX's audio processor (no Dolby Headphone surround sound), but you could still use a program like Foobar2000 to play music audio.
 "Speaker Asus Xonar Essence STX" allows the STX's audio processor to be involved, so you can use Dolby headphone surround sound.
 I usually just leave Xonar control panel sample rates at 96Khz.


----------



## davisman

Thanks, 99% of my music is 44.1 anyway so Ill probably just leave it there.


----------



## lumzi23

Something is wrong with my STX card and I think it has to do with my mobo, bios or psu.
  
 Some weeks back I reinstalled Windows 7 on my PC and one of the things I noticed was that my STX 'suddenly started working.' Prior to this I had only enjoyed truly good sound from this thing intermittently, but now it was sound much richer, fuller somehow. Some noticable differences. Star Craft 2 had this weird echoey and ME3 on sounded muted when I set the dynamic range to high (which I understood to mean my Senn PC 360's weren't up to dealing with games dynamic range or something). Then I had had to go and spoil everything.
  
 You see I got it into my head that my cpu fan was too loud. So I went to reseat it. Long story short I ended up having to clean some thermal paste from the under side of my CPU to get my computer working again.
  
 During this process I noticed the Asus logo on startup changed from a big blurry version on the middle of the screen to a smaller more sharp version located higher up. Since then my card has not sounded right. I compared the sound of the card to the onboard sound and I can't tell any difference. I even compared it to my cheap laptop sound via the same headset (PC 360) no difference.
  
 Desperate I moved the card from the PCIe 16 slot to a PCIe 1 slot right between my GPU and Heatsink. At first it seemed my problem was solved. The sound seemed different. Louder and smoother. This was short lived as I started getting headaches from the sound. I opened my system and noticed the pins on the underside of of the card were touching the heatsink. Yikes! I changed the orientation of the heatsink. It still sounds sounded louder and maybe even clearer but there is something big missing. Today I reinstalled windows again to see if that was the problem. Nope nothing. Same rubbish sound. I don't know what is wrong. The red light on the spdif thing is on and the card clicks as it is supposed to. Has anyone had this problem.
  
 I have had some epic shut downs due to power outages so I am thinking that possibly my PSU is messed. I have heard that a faulty PSU can cause all sorts of problems. Then that weird logo change has me thinking as well. It changed to the big blurry logo when I flashed to the latest Bios a while back but when I reseated the heatsink it changed rather mysteriously. I have flashed to an older bios with a similar fat logo (I think) to see if that helps. Nope. I will flash to the oldest Bios to see if that does anything.
  
 Interestingly, I had an issue a while back (earlier in the year) where my keyboard was not working until windows started which is what caused me to flash my Bios in the first place. I couldn't access the bios because the keyboard wouldn't work till windows started. I heard that that could be because of a failing mobo. Ever since the flash I have had no keyboard problems (though I notice my keyboard light settings don't show up on a fresh boot, only from a restart within windows or the login screen). I think prior to that I was pleased with the card though I can't be sure. In any case I know this card should sound better than it does even with my modest (sorta) headset. I have heard people claim they are unimpressed with the sound of the card while I have heard people compare the sound of it vs onboard to a rocket ship (stx) and a Kia (onboard). I have had both experiences. From being unimpressed to being moved deep inside my very being. Is the card defective? Is it a mobo issue? Or is it a PSU thing?
  
 Any hints or even downright technical papers that will help me fix this issue would be appreciated. I am on the verge of buying a brand new mobo and PSU but I thought I would try here first. Any help would be appreciated. Please. Help.
  
 I am using the unified drivers if that helps and hearing tests I performed were with foobar Wasapi (stx wasapi vs onboard wasapi) I also did more general test with with VLC (and I think some games).


----------



## PurpleAngel

lumzi23 said:


> Something is wrong with my STX card and I think it has to do with my mobo, bios or psu.
> 
> Any hints or even downright technical papers that will help me fix this issue would be appreciated. I am on the verge of buying a brand new mobo and PSU but I thought I would try here first. Any help would be appreciated. Please. Help.
> I am using the unified drivers if that helps and hearing tests I performed were with foobar Wasapi (stx wasapi vs onboard wasapi) I also did more general test with with VLC (and I think some games).


 
 Is the on-board audio disabled? in the BIOS


----------



## lumzi23

purpleangel said:


> Is the on-board audio disabled? in the BIOS


 
 Yes. Though since the latest reinstall (yesterday) I have noticed that a mysterious 'high definition audio device' is always present. I think it is because I had the onboard disabled while installing Windows 7. When I enable onboard, two of these things (HD audio device) appear. I don't know if that is significant.


----------



## moot11

I have a STX with HE-400s. I'm finding that my headphones aren't very loud, and was wondering if I either need an AMP or if I might have some settings wrong?


----------



## stv014

moot11 said:


> I have a STX with HE-400s. I'm finding that my headphones aren't very loud, and was wondering if I either need an AMP or if I might have some settings wrong?


 
  
 Try increasing the gain and/or volume.


----------



## AladdinSane

Yes, in the Xonar Essence Audio Center software check what gain setting you are using (click on the "hammer"). Adjust!


----------



## PurpleAngel

lumzi23 said:


> Yes. Though since the latest reinstall (yesterday) I have noticed that a mysterious 'high definition audio device' is always present. I think it is because I had the onboard disabled while installing Windows 7. When I enable onboard, two of these things (HD audio device) appear. I don't know if that is significant.


 
 Better to disable on-board sound.


----------



## moot11

stv014 said:


> Try increasing the gain and/or volume.


 
  
 Doh, that was silly of me. I set it to high gain and I'm really happy with the setting and don't feel like I need an AMP.


----------



## lumzi23

purpleangel said:


> Better to disable on-board sound.


 
 It is disabled.
  
 Also, I notice that when I connect via cards quarter inch jack there isn't the brief noise like when I connect directly to the motherboards 3.5mm one. I am talking about the short brief hiss (or static). Is this normal?


----------



## lumzi23

I think that the issue is with noise and interference from my case. I will try to see what I can do to reduce this. Thanks for all the help.


----------



## SCHYNEYDER

It's worth out of a Xonar D2X for STX?
 I have a Sennheiser HD 598 and still a Onkyo TX-NR 616.
 It is worth investing in STX, or both, Xonar and receiver are sufficient to push the phone ?
 I felt that the Onkyo is better for music than the Xonar D2X.
 Movies and TV shows have not yet tested, using the receiver.


----------



## PurpleAngel

schyneyder said:


> It's worth out of a Xonar D2X for STX?
> I have a Sennheiser HD 598 and still a Onkyo TX-NR 616.
> It is worth investing in STX, or both, Xonar and receiver are sufficient to push the phone ?
> I felt that the Onkyo is better for music than the Xonar D2X.
> Movies and TV shows have not yet tested, using the receiver.


 
 Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS
  
 You would be better off getting a headphone amplifier and using it with the D2X.
 The STX & D2X share a lot of the same hardware, the D2X just lacks a true headphone amplifier.
 Schiit Magni headphone amplifier, $99.


----------



## harney

Hi
  
 Just about to purchase a pair of *LME49720 *but notice there made by different company's national, ti ect
  
 Is there one brand i should stick with or are they all the same re build sound quality  ...
  
  
 ta h


----------



## bcschmerker4

harney said:


> Hi
> 
> Just about to purchase a pair of *LME49720 *but notice there made by different company's national, ti ect
> 
> ...


 

 Texas Instruments, Incorporated, is the owner of both National Semiconductor® and Burr-Brown®.  Each brand is targeted at specific segments of the market for chips of the same pinout and case.
  
 The NSC® LME49720NA and LME49860NA (improvements on the LM4562N, which is the stock line-level buffer) and the Burr-Brown™ OPA627 are direct competitors for the Asus® XONAR® Essence's™ two I-V positions (the ST and STX ship with JRC2114D's in the I-V); some of the more adventurous are using paired surface-mount single op amps (e.g., the TI® THS4031 or NSC® LME49990MA) on 8-pin DIP adapter printed-circuit boards.


----------



## harney

bcschmerker4 said:


> Texas Instruments, Incorporated, is the owner of both National Semiconductor® and Burr-Brown®.  Each brand is targeted at specific segments of the market for chips of the same pinout and case.
> 
> The NSC® LME49720NA and LME49860NA (improvements on the LM4562N, which is the stock line-level buffer) and the Burr-Brown™ OPA627 are direct competitors for the Asus® XONAR® Essence's™ two I-V positions (the ST and STX ship with JRC2114D's in the I-V); some of the more adventurous are using paired surface-mount single op amps (e.g., the TI® THS4031 or NSC® LME49990MA) on 8-pin DIP adapter printed-circuit boards.


 

 Thanks bcsc
  
 Did not know that re company's
  
 Should have stated what there for its for the asus essence st to go with the hd 650 headphones.....and from what i have been reading seems that the best combo is LME49720 these are also what asus sell as the upgrade kit for a hefty price but i can get these at under £2
  
 http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instruments/lme49720na-nopb/op-amp-audio-17vin-55mhz-8dip/dp/2102668
  
 so i assume these are the same
  
 Still trying to work out what go's where re  i-v or buffer i am still researching this.
  
 I am very impressed with this asus card for the price
  
 My current set ups are RME 9632 with balanced cable mackie 1642 vlz pro & a bottle head crack with speed ball and various tubes
  
 ta h


----------



## Panagiotis

Hello to you all! 
  
 Two days ago I recieved my brand new Asus Xonar Essence ST card and I 'd like to thank you all for your valuable knowledge and impressions that are posted in this thread and forum.


----------



## Panagiotis

After two a few days owning the Asus Xonar Essence ST and about a month reading this thread I would welcome some of your valuable help in  the field of op amp swamping or tweaking. 
  
 I've done a search in ebay and I'm thinking to buy a few sets of op amps from Burr Brown, Analog Devices and Muses. What would you recomend with your experience backround?
  
 I'm interested in gaining more sound stage size and better mids and highs in terms of detail and harmonic richness without loosing in bass performance. All these in comparison with the default op amp set of the sound card.  My Essence ST is installed in my PC which is used in a two channel hi-fi system.
  
 Thanks in advance.
  
 I would really need some help because this thread is an ocean of information and is easy to loose your way (in good manner)


----------



## PurpleAngel

panagiotis said:


> After two a few days owning the Asus Xonar Essence ST and about a month reading this thread I would welcome some of your valuable help in  the field of op amp swamping or tweaking.
> 
> I've done a search in eBay and I'm thinking to buy a few sets of op amps from Burr Brown, Analog Devices and Muses. What would you recomend with your experience backround?
> 
> ...


 
 Start out with the LME49720 DIP-8, they are very low cost.
  
 Check out the AD797BR and LME49990
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4b48da0
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/190999739495?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2c7878bc67


----------



## Panagiotis

purpleangel said:


> Start out with the LME49720 DIP-8, they are very low cost.
> 
> Check out the AD797BR and LME49990
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks alot!
  
 They look smaller than the usual opamps but I guess this hasn't got to do anything with the performance...


----------



## Panagiotis

Thanks alot!
  
 These op amps look smaller than usual but I guess this has nothing to do with the performance...


----------



## Panagiotis

What you say about these?
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Dual-Low-Noise-OpAmp-Pro-audio-OPA2107AP-OPA2107-IC-m-/180557996267?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a1860eb
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400601278364
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330877127156
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160700510037
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200288771574


----------



## Panagiotis

I was also wondering of the possibility to use Jfets.
  
 I'm sorry if I'm tiring you with lots of questions but in this you are the people with richest experience on Essence ST(X) tweaking.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So is it a good idea to use jfets? (or all the op amps are jfets and I'doing a silly question?)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have also tried to find an online store to buy burson op amps and I cannot. They are pretty expensive also...


----------



## PurpleAngel

panagiotis said:


> Thanks alot!
> 
> They look smaller than the usual op-amps but I guess this hasn't got to do anything with the performance...


 
 The current op-amps in the Essence ST are dual channel DIP-8 op-amps.
 (As well as the LME49720NA).
 The AD797BR and LME49990 are SOIC single channel op-amps.
 So 2 SOIC op-amps need to be soldered on to a Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter, to work with the Essence ST.


----------



## Panagiotis

purpleangel said:


> The current op-amps in the Essence ST are dual channel DIP-8 op-amps.
> (As well as the LME49720NA).
> The AD797BR and LME49990 are SOIC single channel op-amps.
> So 2 SOIC op-amps need to be soldered on to a Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter, to work with the Essence ST.


 
 Thanks for the answer. I haven't got any experience on these things and I'm asking in order to learn something.


----------



## PurpleAngel

panagiotis said:


> Thanks for the answer. I haven't got any experience on these things and I'm asking in order to learn something.


 
 Your allowed 3.4 (three point four) questions per 24 hours period on Head-Fi, hopefully that is enough.
 After that it's $124,000 per additional question with in a 24 hour period.
 Just make out the check to the California Audio Sound Headphoners, or C.A.S.H for short.


----------



## Suopermanni

Would any Australian Head-Fi member be willing to mod an STX for me? It's just that I don't have a soldering iron and I have a rather bad case of shaky hands which makes using a soldering iron rather risky. That, and I have bad experiences with modding STXs.


----------



## rfe777

I've just bought the Xonar Essence STX a few days ago. I have two problems with it:
  
 1. There isn't enough bass, even the on-board sound card gives more bass. Maybe I need to tweak something in the Audio Center?
  
 2. In order to squeeze 100% from this card I have to install this WASABI thing(using Win 7)?
  
  
 I'm using it only with my Sennheiser HD 380 Pro headphones, not going to use any external speakers and/or amp/DAC.
  
  
 Anyone knows?
  
 TIA


----------



## PurpleAngel

rfe777 said:


> I've just bought the Xonar Essence STX a few days ago. I have two problems with it:
> 1. There isn't enough bass, even the on-board sound card gives more bass. Maybe I need to tweak something in the Audio Center?
> 2. In order to squeeze 100% from this card I have to install this WASABI thing (using Win 7)?
> I'm using it only with my Sennheiser HD 380 Pro headphones, not going to use any external speakers and/or amp/DAC.


 
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
 Try installing the Unified Xonar drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
 Try upping the STX gain to 64-300
 For music audio, do you set the STX's "Audio channel" to 2-channel?
  
 Try using Foobar2000 (with component updates) for playing music audio files


----------



## Panagiotis

My Essence ST is also new, but I didn't have any problem. It haw excellent performance across the spectrum with the stock opamps. Have yoy checked your earphones's impendance in order to adjust the proprer value in the xonar driver softrware?
  
 Have a second, good look in the manual of the soundcard, read it carefully, and then set the card for playback.


----------



## Panagiotis

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
> Try installing the Unified Xonar drivers.
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
> Try upping the STX gain to 64-300
> ...


 
  
  
 I' ve came across, many times, on comments concerning the Unified Xonar drivers and I was quite qurious, using them. What do they offer more than the Asus Drivers? If I use them will I have sonic improvement?


----------



## Panagiotis

I have added a ferrite around the psu supply cable of the card and I noticed a slight improvement. I  suggest you try it.
  
 It can be seen on the bottom of the picture.


----------



## PurpleAngel

panagiotis said:


> I've came across, many times, on comments concerning the Unified Xonar drivers and I was quite qurious, using them. What do they offer more than the Asus Drivers? If I use them will I have sonic improvement?


 
 I believe with Unified Xonar drivers, your getting updates included that Asus has not gotten around to including in their software.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## Panagiotis

purpleangel said:


> I believe with Unified Xonar drivers, your getting updates included that Asus has not gotten around to including in their software.
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


 
  
  
 Thanks for the link. 
  
 I read it and it's obvious that they have invested their time to offer great support. I'll give it a try purple angel and I'll write my impressions. I'm quite new on the Essence ST thing but after a month of experience wit asus xonar drivers I cannot say that they are the best...  What a pity not to support a great product with such an acceptance, as it worths...


----------



## rfe777

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
> Try installing the Unified Xonar drivers.
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
> Try upping the STX gain to 64-300
> ...



ok, but how do I set the bass level? and how do I set 5.1 channels in Windows 7?


----------



## harney

rfe777 said:


> I've just bought the Xonar Essence STX a few days ago. I have two problems with it:
> 
> 1. There isn't enough bass, even the on-board sound card gives more bass. Maybe I need to tweak something in the Audio Center?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Make sure you are in 2 channels and NOT using non of the Dolby gx game modes ect these mess with the overall sound and sound terrible in stereo all so make sure you have the right ohm's set for your headphones..
  
 Also i find any of the  on-board sound-cards to be very muddy in bass sound so this can be misleading and sound very bass heavy but the overall quality of it is poor..I can tell you the bass of my xoner is fantastic all-most on par with my rme 9632 and that triple in price...
  
 Use the Asus eq to add more bass i use a small classic eq smile ....cut the midrange up the bass
  
 hope this helps


----------



## cheneric

Who's running the beta driver vs. the old? They changed the icon from blue to red. The beta gives a loud pop changing analogs. I wish asus can update their drivers.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rfe777 said:


> ok, but how do I set the bass level? and how do I set 5.1 channels in Windows 7?


 
 For inputting a 5.1 (6-channel) audio signal into the STX, go to the Xonar Control Panel and set Audio Channel to 6-Channels.
 There is a also a tab for the EQ, but I removed my STX a few weeks ago, so I can't remember exactly where it is in the control panel (never used it).


----------



## bcschmerker4

> Originally Posted by *PurpleAngel* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> ....Try installing the Unified Xonar drivers.
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
> ...


 
 I recently had to reinstall Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001 (Kernel 6.1.7601) from a back-up image from 2011 and upgrade a lot of software.  Be advised that certain multimedia server apps, e.g., ManyCam® 3.0-up and its competition, will interfere with the installation of both the Asus® XONAR® Audio Center™ (C-Media® CMI8788 Driver 7.12.8.1792) and the Unified XONAR® Audio Software™ (different CMI8788 Drivers dep. on release) - I had to uninstall ManyCam® 4.0.44 before Unified XONAR® Audio Software™ 1.64.2 (CMI8788 Driver 8.0.8.1815) would install properly.  I selected the C-Media® Audio Controller DLL with GX enabled, as I wish to test GX with some online audio services.


----------



## rfe777

purpleangel said:


> For inputting a 5.1 (6-channel) audio signal into the STX, go to the Xonar Control Panel and set Audio Channel to 6-Channels.
> There is a also a tab for the EQ, but I removed my STX a few weeks ago, so I can't remember exactly where it is in the control panel (never used it).


 
 Did you remove it because you didn't like it or because you upgraded to a better hardware?


----------



## PurpleAngel

rfe777 said:


> Did you remove it because you didn't like it or because you upgraded to a better hardware?


 
 Really did not have anything again using the STX, still think it's a great bang for the buck.
 I did the swap to the NFB-15.32 for a lot of minor reasons.
 I have some low impedance headphones and the 15.32 headphone output impedance is only 2-Ohms, compared to the STX's 10-Ohm.
 I have 600-Ohm headphones and thought the 15.32 more powerful headphone amplifier might(?) drive them a little better.
 The 15.32's dual DAC chips (WM8741) are 128SNR compared to the STX's DAC chips (PCM1792A) 124SNR.
 The 15.32 being totally external, eliminated the very slight electrical noise in the audio signal.
 The 15.32 gives me a volume knob right as my finger tips.
 I justified the 15.32's expense by thinking I would be able to sell off the STX.
 I have a Xonar DX laying around and it has the same audio processor as the STX,
 so I could connect the DX to the 15.32 using S/PDIF (still be able to use the DX's headphone surround sound feature.
 Also felt I had to try something new.


----------



## rfe777

purpleangel said:


> Really did not have anything again using the STX, still think it's a great bang for the buck.
> I did the swap to the NFB-15.32 for a lot of minor reasons.
> I have some low impedance headphones and the 15.32 headphone output impedance is only 2-Ohms, compared to the STX's 10-Ohm.
> I have 600-Ohm headphones and thought the 15.32 more powerful headphone amplifier might(?) drive them a little better.
> ...



Do you recommended using a DAC/amp with the STX? this is what will give me more bass?


----------



## Callek

I have a Essence STX with a custom O2 amplifier connected via RCA. My primary headphones are a pair of Denon AH-D5000 with a "light markl mod".
 Is there any benefit from op amp rolling when using the RCA output? I tried some different op amps when I was using the built in amplifier but always came back to the stock setup.
  
 The O2 does however sound much better compared to the built in amplifier with my (low impedance) headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rfe777 said:


> Do you recommended using a DAC/amp with the STX? this is what will give me more bass?


 
 I would assume the STX would bring out as much "quality" bass as possible for the HD380 Pro.
 If the HD380 Pro was plugged into a jack with a high output impedance, then chances are it would cause a bloated (louder, but less detail) bass.
 You can plug a external or add-on DAC to the STX, just an amp the line-output (RCA jacks)
 Otherwise right now my brain can't think of anything else that might be causing the STX to have the bass issue.


----------



## rfe777

purpleangel said:


> I would assume the STX would bring out as much "quality" bass as possible for the HD380 Pro.
> If the HD380 Pro was plugged into a jack with a high output impedance, then chances are it would cause a bloated (louder, but less detail) bass.
> You can plug a external or add-on DAC to the STX, just an amp the line-output (RCA jacks)
> Otherwise right now my brain can't think of anything else that might be causing the STX to have the bass issue.



lol ok. Then maybe s different headphones are the solution? anything you can recommend(like the HD 380 Pro, closed, very sound isolating, same sound signature but with more bass)?


----------



## connieflyer

I have been using the Stx for two years now, started with the HD 380's and went to the HD 650 Sennheisers and while it worked good, I looked for more quality.  I tried a dragonfly dac v.2 and returned it almost immediately.  The Stx's dac section is actually quite good. The amp on the other hand leaves something to be desired.  After much searching decided on the Project Ember (http://garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm)  It is a hybrid amp that uses a dual triode tube and also op amps in the output.  It is a very powerful headphone amp, they also have other amps that are just right for a lower price range.  To my ears this fills the bill for me.  The sound has more body, a much fuller sound than the stx.  I use rca's out to the Ember and love it.  It makes tube rolling (trying different tubes) so much easier.  No bias to set just plug and play.  Garage 1217 is working on a solid state amp as well, so if you prefer a solid state amp, this could fill the bill.  A very helpful customer service and it is made in the USA! which, if you care, is a plus.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rfe777 said:


> lol ok. Then maybe s different headphones are the solution? anything you can recommend(like the HD 380 Pro, closed, very sound isolating, same sound signature but with more bass)?


 
 Currently my preferred closed headphone is the Audio Technica ATH-A900X, with Hifiman Velour ear pads.
 To me the A900X have fairly decent bass and a good over all balanced audio.


----------



## rfe777

I think the Dolby settings of the STX and Windows 7 are not "synchronized". I just watched a Gears Of War 2 walkthrough video, and weapon fire, explosions and talking that came from the sides, back or far away were very low or not audible at all. How can I set this correctly?


----------



## Lucky87

Hey guys I recently purchased the STX and I made sure all of my onboard sound drivers and bios were removed and turned off and I made sure my Nvidia Audio driver was removed upon a fresh install recently. I noticed anytime I move my mouse or mouse wheel I hear a hum and a morse code sound beeping then I stop moving my mouse it stops. I also get really load popping sometime when playing music and games.
 I assume this is not normal and just wondering if anyone have had same issues and what did you do to fix it?
  
 Thanks


----------



## AladdinSane

Are you using rear panel jack or have you connected to the front panel jack? I get a lot more interference from my PC using the FP jack , none (that I can hear) from the jack on the rear of the card.


----------



## Lucky87

aladdinsane said:


> Are you using rear panel jack or have you connected to the front panel jack? I get a lot more interference from my PC using the FP jack , none (that I can hear) from the jack on the rear of the card.


 
 Rear RCA L and R out straight to my Adam speakers unbalanced.  I have tried 3 set of cables as well the problem is still there so I am thinking it might be a bad sound card.


----------



## Lucky87

I was using a after modded STX driver and I decided to uninstall it and try the stock Asus Driver from there site and all is working 100% now with zero hum or popping etc.. Now that's what I am talking about crystal clear at high volume. I might just have to keep this card after all, but I am looking forward to try the TEAC UD-H01 via XLR to compare..
 Thanks


----------



## AladdinSane

Good job Lucky87. I was going to suggest drivers (usually people go from stock to unifed) or possibly moving slots. I've not had any issues with stock drivers on Win7 machine in the many years I've had my STX. Enjoy the music!


----------



## tombomb21

When gaming (Counter-Strike:GO, for example) which will offer the greatest precision: 2ch HF, 8ch HF, or 6ch with Dolby Headphone?
  
 Open to suggestions!


----------



## mindbomb

with old games like cs go and tf2, try snd_legacy_surround 1 and snd_surround_speakers 5 with gx mode, with dolby headphone.
 For audio channel, 6 channels is good in general. I believe the setting is actually irrelevant if GX mode is in use.


----------



## tigerdx619

~~Hi All recently a bought a used (Xonar Essence STX) installed driver and card when the volume is 100% i hear almost no sound both speakers and Headphones ( only very very low sound ) some stuff u might ask that i've already did :
 - 4-pin power cable is connected right - driver used 1777 , 1793 , 1794
 - Asus Essence STX speakers is the default playback
 - i've chosen heaphones and 2 speakers , still sound is coming but extremely low
 - onboard sound cars is disabled


----------



## bcschmerker4

tigerdx619 said:


> ~~Hi All recently a bought a used (Xonar Essence STX) installed driver and card when the volume is 100% i hear almost no sound both speakers and Headphones ( only very very low sound ) some stuff u might ask that i've already did :
> - 4-pin power cable is connected right - driver used 1777 , 1793 , 1794
> - Asus Essence STX speakers is the default playback
> - i've chosen heaphones and 2 speakers , still sound is coming but extremely low
> - onboard sound cars is disabled


 

 Sounds like either insufficient drive gain at your external amplifier, an incorrect headphone-amplifier gain setting, or a serious hardware issue with your STX'™ analog-output section.  I have used an STX™ for over a year in an Asus® CM1630-06 and it has performed as advertised, once the drivers are installed (see also my caveat Post #4778 concerning attempting to install the Maxed Tech® UNi XONAR® Audio Software when virtual-webcam softwares are present); I normally run the RCA outs ("2 Speakers") through a Pyle® PCA2 amplifier into a pair of Realistic®/Radio Shack® #40-2054 two-ways, with the internal Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 on the 6.3mm TRS jack ("Headphones") on standby for any of a number of headphones I use.
  
 Failures of the dual op amps in the I-V section are rare but not unknown.  The JRC® 2114D and its competition have similar weaknesses to most linear integrated circuits; same applies to the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM4562N and competitive dual audio amps in line-level buffer position.  As I understand things, the Asus® XONAR® Audio Center™ can set the headphone-amplifier gain for different load impedances; three gain levels are provided.
  
 "Hard" hardware issues for the XONAR® Essence™ Series may involve the actual resistors and capacitors of the signal chain from the I-V section to the headphone jack and RCA line-level outputs.  Functional headphone jack and dead RCA's indicate a failed line-level buffer dual audio amp, while a dead headphone jack and functional RCA's indicate a failed headphone-amplifier IC.


----------



## tigerdx619

bcschmerker4 said:


> Sounds like either insufficient drive gain at your external amplifier, an incorrect headphone-amplifier gain setting, or a serious hardware issue with your STX'™ analog-output section.  I have used an STX™ for over a year in an Asus® CM1630-06 and it has performed as advertised, once the drivers are installed (see also my caveat Post #4778 concerning attempting to install the Maxed Tech® UNi XONAR® Audio Software when virtual-webcam softwares are present); I normally run the RCA outs ("2 Speakers") through a Pyle® PCA2 amplifier into a pair of Realistic®/Radio Shack® #40-2054 two-ways, with the internal Texas Instruments® TP6120A2 on the 6.3mm TRS jack ("Headphones") on standby for any of a number of headphones I use.
> 
> Failures of the dual op amps in the I-V section are rare but not unknown.  The JRC® 2114D and its competition have similar weaknesses to most linear integrated circuits; same applies to the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM4562N and competitive dual audio amps in line-level buffer position.  As I understand things, the Asus® XONAR® Audio Center™ can set the headphone-amplifier gain for different load impedances; three gain levels are provided.
> 
> "Hard" hardware issues for the XONAR® Essence™ Series may involve the actual resistors and capacitors of the signal chain from the I-V section to the headphone jack and RCA line-level outputs.  Functional headphone jack and dead RCA's indicate a failed line-level buffer dual audio amp, while a dead headphone jack and functional RCA's indicate a failed headphone-amplifier IC.


 

 tried the three levels of gain
 0-64 just like no sound
 64 - 300 higher but very very very low sound
 300 - 600 higher but still barely hearable

 both rca and headphones out are not working , I think it is a gain problem , what possible solutions I could do ?


----------



## Honkytime

tigerdx619 said:


> tried the three levels of gain
> 0-64 just like no sound
> 64 - 300 higher but very very very low sound
> 300 - 600 higher but still barely hearable
> ...


 
 i noticed in the picture your SVN is clicked on and this with screw with your volume controls as it normalizes the volume


----------



## tigerdx619

honkytime said:


> i noticed in the picture your SVN is clicked on and this with screw with your volume controls as it normalizes the volume



Without svm nothing is changed


----------



## AladdinSane

Do you happen to have a S/PDIF device to try? What player are you using?


----------



## sicbud

Hello all,
  
 I just received my HE-400 headphones today and have them hooked up to my Asus Xonar ST and had a few questions.
  
 First of all, the headphones were really quiet when using the "Normal Gain", so I changed that setting to "High Gain" which resolved that issue, but I'm hardly noticing any bass at all (this was the same thing as my previous headphones).
  
 If I change the equalizer in the Audio Center to the Bass option, it greatly helps, but I really don't want to have to use the equalizer just to be able to hear bass.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Will switching out amps help with the bass?  Should I buy an external AMP instead?  The headphones are brand-new, so I know they need to be burned in; will burning them in increase the bass at all?
  
 I did purchase some replacement Velour pads, but not sure if that will help or not.
  
 Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


----------



## tigerdx619

aladdinsane said:


> Do you happen to have a S/PDIF device to try? What player are you using?


no i dont have 
Teied wmp and even the asus audio centee test is very low


----------



## rfe777

I've noticed that only if I change the gain from normal to high I get an acceptable amp for my headphones. without it, even with system sound at 100%, the volume is too weak. I don't know, as higher gain can damage the headphones right? it looks like the amplification of the STX isn't worth much...


----------



## sicbud

I thought raising the gain just increases the volume output and wouldn't damage your headset unless you had the volume too loud?


----------



## germanium

sicbud said:


> I thought raising the gain just increases the volume output and wouldn't damage your headset unless you had the volume too loud?


 

 you are correct. it just raises volume potential.


----------



## PurpleAngel

sicbud said:


> I just received my HE-400 headphones today and have them hooked up to my Asus Xonar ST and had a few questions.
> First of all, the headphones were really quiet when using the "Normal Gain", so I changed that setting to "High Gain" which resolved that issue, but I'm hardly noticing any bass at all (this was the same thing as my previous headphones).
> If I change the equalizer in the Audio Center to the Bass option, it greatly helps, but I really don't want to have to use the equalizer just to be able to hear bass.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Will switching out amps help with the bass?  Should I buy an external AMP instead?  The headphones are brand-new, so I know they need to be burned in; will burning them in increase the bass at all?
> I did purchase some replacement Velour pads, but not sure if that will help or not.
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!


 
 Is the motherboard's on-board audio disabled? in the BIOS.
 Remove the Asus drivers and try a clean install of the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
 Try using the program Foobar2000 for playing audio files.


----------



## echopapa

A question regarding my DT990 headphones (250 ohms):  I have the gain set at the middle level (64~300 ohms), but would going to the higher level benefit me at all?  Also, I saw in the OP that the HF (hi-fi) setting is recommended to be turned on.  After this is ticked all EQ settings go away in the Xonar Audio Center and my headphones sound pretty flat.  Do I just use Foobar to adjust EQ now?


----------



## Simcon

echopapa said:


> A question regarding my DT990 headphones (250 ohms):  I have the gain set at the middle level (64~300 ohms), but would going to the higher level benefit me at all?  Also, I saw in the OP that the HF (hi-fi) setting is recommended to be turned on.  After this is ticked all EQ settings go away in the Xonar Audio Center and my headphones sound pretty flat.  Do I just use Foobar to adjust EQ now?




I too have the same combo, but there is no advantage to setting the gain any higher, it would just make the volume very high.


----------



## echopapa

*BUMP*  Anyone know where I should be EQing at when I have the HF option ticked?  Just EQ in FooBar?


----------



## tombomb21

What settings should I use on this card to get optimum positional audio from counter-strike: Global offensive? Is it better to have it set in 2ch or 8ch? dolby on/off? hi-fi mode -  game mode?
  
 CSGO and music are the only things I use my computer for haha. Any help appreciated. 
  
 thanks
  
 headphones: Phillips Fidelio X1


----------



## Panagiotis

Hello to you all!

Recently. I bought three discrete op amp to upgrade my asus essence st. Well i mounted them on the card double checked if everything is ok and when i sat listen i noticed that while playing there was distorsion. It goes away when i lower the volume of foobar almostt at -60 or -70%but it is not a solution. Do you have any similar experience and if yes what could i do?


----------



## devhead

I've had the STX for a little over 2 years now, and absolutely love it.  I've got it digitally connected to my AV amp, since my music collection is on my PC.  Running JRiver Media Center in WASAPI mode, it's a great sounding system.


----------



## aleex

I might have brought up this problem before, but I seem to be only able to control the audio volume on the left channel on any device connected to my sound card. I encountered this problem about a year ago, and then it disappeared for a while, only to come back a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember doing anything to cause this. I've updated the drivers, but the problem remains. Ideas?


----------



## cheneric

I'm trying to get flexbass (LFE?) to work with my subwoofer and my powered monitors. How can I make this work? My subs are RCA, which i can convert to digital coaxial..and my powered monitors take the rca. will the xonar be able to recognize that the digital coaxial is a subwoofer?


----------



## mindbomb

cheneric said:


> I'm trying to get flexbass (LFE?) to work with my subwoofer and my powered monitors. How can I make this work? My subs are RCA, which i can convert to digital coaxial..and my powered monitors take the rca. will the xonar be able to recognize that the digital coaxial is a subwoofer?


 
  
 try this - set the xonar control panel to Audio Channel: 2 channel, and Analog Out:5.1. Then connect the sub to the center/sub jack using a 3.5mm to rca.
  
 edit: well, that would work on my xonar dx, but I forgot the essense stx doesn't have a center/sub output.


----------



## mindbomb

aleex said:


> I might have brought up this problem before, but I seem to be only able to control the audio volume on the left channel on any device connected to my sound card. I encountered this problem about a year ago, and then it disappeared for a while, only to come back a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember doing anything to cause this. I've updated the drivers, but the problem remains. Ideas?


 

 You can try to use the front panel connector rather than the sound card connector or vice versa.


----------



## JohnSantana

Hi All,

I'm interested to upgrade my current PC sound card which is comes with old Asus Rampage Formula Motherboard with *Asus Xonar STX*. so I wonder if the Sound quality of the music that I will be listening on can be improved when using the SPDIF (TOS Link) out to Oritek *OMZ DAC v4.1* and then *Lisa III XP amp* (as per my post signature ?


----------



## JohnSantana

purpleangel said:


> Is the motherboard's on-board audio disabled? in the BIOS.
> Remove the Asus drivers and try a clean install of the Unified Xonar Drivers.
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
> Try using the program Foobar2000 for playing audio files.




So from the K-Lite Audio codec is this the correct setting to fully utilize the Asus Xonar STX to the highest setting to listen for HD Tracks 24 bit / 96 KHz files ?



> Input format: Flac Stereo 88200
> User format: PCM24 Dolby ProLogic II 192000
> Output format: PCM24 Dolby ProLogic II 192000
> 
> ...


 

Any kind of idea and suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,


----------



## PurpleAngel

ASUS Announces the Essence STX II and Essence STX II 7.1 Sound Cards http://www.techpowerup.com/198852/asus-announces-the-essence-stx-ii-and-essence-stx-ii-7-1-sound-cards.html
  
  
 I'm going to guess they replaced the C-Media CMI8788 PCI and bridge chip with the CMI8888 native PCI-E chip.


----------



## bcschmerker4

purpleangel said:


> ASUS Announces the Essence STX II and Essence STX II 7.1 Sound Cards http://www.techpowerup.com/198852/asus-announces-the-essence-stx-ii-and-essence-stx-ii-7-1-sound-cards.html
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess they replaced the C-Media CMI8788 PCI and bridge chip with the CMI8888 native PCI-E chip.


 







 Thanks for the heads up on a hardware-corrected version - the STX™ II will be able to hook up to the XONAR® H6™ daughtercard I have been previously unable to install in the CM1630-06 (as of 13 March 2014).  Replacing the C-Media® CMI8788 and bridge with a CMI-8888DHT means the restoration of the additional-analog-outputs circuitry from the original XONAR® Essence™ ST™ that the EAH6850 contraindicated during my original set of upgrades.  Hopefully Maxed Tech® will be ready with updated UNi™ XONAR® Audio Software™ when the STX™ II hits the stores - the ROG® XONAR® Phoebus™ already uses the newer DSP, and the STX™ II packs the cleaner analog-output circuitry inherited (perhaps even improved?) from the ST™ and first-gen STX™.
  
*Heads up on an alternate procedure!*  For the cost-conscious who are otherwise satisfied with the first-gen XONAR® Essence™ models, Audiotrak® offers the MUSES® 8920 dual JFET op amps a la carte ($15.00 as of 14 March 2014 from gyrocom at eBay®).


----------



## kotk

Do you guys also hear a hiss in the quiet parts of song? Just wondering if it's just me...


----------



## connieflyer

Thanks for the heads up on the chip 

bcschmerker4,  how many chips needed just for the rca output?  thanks..


----------



## bcschmerker4

The ST and STX use three total dual op amps, one for each I-V on the Front Out (2 total) and one for the line-level buffer.  The MUSES® 8920 can run all three positions on the ST and STX - I'd like to read how well it rolls about an STX II or ST and H6 as a complete set (twelve total dual op amps, viz., eight I-V and four line-level buffer).


----------



## connieflyer

bcschmerker4 said:


> The ST and STX use three total dual op amps, one for each I-V on the Front Out (2 total) and one for the line-level buffer.  The MUSES® 8920 can run all three positions on the ST and STX - I'd like to read how well it rolls about an STX II or ST and H6 as a complete set (twelve total dual op amps, viz., eight I-V and four line-level buffer).


 
 Thanks for the info, will wait a while until we can get some comparisons between old and new stx. I had upgraded the opamps a year ago and this sounds good to my ears now.  Since I only use the rca outputs now I guess since I only need one I could experiment and get one of the MUSES.  Of course I have been buying so many tubes lately the wife may object, but that is part of the fun.


----------



## PurpleAngel

bcschmerker4 said:


> Thanks for the heads up on a hardware-corrected version - the STX™ II will be able to hook up to the XONAR® H6™ daughtercard I have been previously unable to install in the CM1630-06 (as of 13 March 2014).  Replacing the C-Media® CMI8788 and bridge with a CMI-8888DHT means the restoration of the additional-analog-outputs circuitry from the original XONAR® Essence™ ST™ that the EAH6850 contraindicated during my original set of upgrades.  Hopefully Maxed Tech® will be ready with updated UNi™ XONAR® Audio Software™ when the STX™ II hits the stores - the ROG® XONAR® Phoebus™ already uses the newer DSP, and the STX™ II packs the cleaner analog-output circuitry inherited (perhaps even improved?) from the ST™ and first-gen STX™.
> 
> *Heads up on an alternate procedure!*  For the cost-conscious who are otherwise satisfied with the first-gen XONAR® Essence™ models, Audiotrak® offers the MUSES® 8920 dual JFET op amps a la carte ($15.00 as of 14 March 2014 from gyrocom at eBay®).


 
 I just figured out the STX II still uses the CMI8788 chip (and a PCI to PCI-E bridge chip).
 The STX II appears to just be a slight revision of the current STX design.


----------



## connieflyer

Well may be they will at least get some new driver software now.


----------



## FangJoker

I have no issues with the drivers on my win 7 box.  What is the problems the rest of you are having?  And I see no reason to upgrade.  I use it for a line out to speakers.  It was ok as a headphone amp, but I went with a separate dac and amp via usb out to get better sound.


----------



## Vartan

Hello guy!!!
 Can I use MUSES 01 op amp in buffer section?
 MUSES 01 is dual channel op amp, right?
 What you think about MUSES 01?
Have anyone tried out MUSES 01 op amp?


----------



## germanium

You can use them in either I/V or buffer or even both.


----------



## cristianuk

need some help with the order the two regulators from NewClassD, not sure which one i need to buy because they have negative and positive on their site http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=70&hv=1 
  
 i successfully installed their clock but looking to upgrade further


----------



## Lynkdev

I'm currently using the HD 650's from Sennheiser and wondering if these settings are correct with the audio center and my STX please:
  
 I have the modmic plugged into the line out jack and the 650's in the Headphone jack. I also own the Logitech z5500's which i have going to the SPDIF jack via toslink.
  
 HF checked
 Extra High Gain
 Dolby headphone (unchecked) --can this be checked on along with 7.1 surround or just for speakers?
  
  
 thanks


----------



## Androb

Hello!
 I'm wondering if anyone could figure out why I get bluescreen when i'm using an external dac through the spdif?
 I'm not getting it when i'm using 16 bit, but it's after I have changed to 24bit that I get them. Not instantly, but they come after a while. I think it has something to do with the STX.
 Thanks!


----------



## connieflyer

I purchased these 3  *DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER and have been listening to them for a little while now and can say they are the last upgrade to the the Essence. I had 3  of the 49720na for about a year and liked them better than the original parts, but it was not a huge difference.  These are 49990's are clearly better in that the voices and bass lines are more articulate, listening to hi rez files of Diana Krall, makes you want to turn your head to see if she is in the room with you.  Very nice indeed.  I purchased them from frugalphile on Ebay....*
http://www.ebay.com/itm/190999739495?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 and he is every bit as good as others have said.  Fast shipping, great packaging, and the workmanship is some of the best I have seen.  All three worked fine no problems, no bent pins, popped the others out, in with the new and worked with no issues.  Ships from New York for those interested.


----------



## PurpleAngel

androb said:


> Hello!
> I'm wondering if anyone could figure out why I get bluescreen when i'm using an external DAC through the S/PDIF?
> I'm not getting it when I'm using 16 bit, but it's after I have changed to 24bit that I get them. Not instantly, but they come after a while. I think it has something to do with the STX.
> Thanks!


 
  
 Have you disabled the on-board audio? in the BIOS.
 Try deleting the Asus drivers and install the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## Androb

purpleangel said:


> Have you disabled the on-board audio? in the BIOS.
> Try deleting the Asus drivers and install the Unified Xonar Drivers.
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


 
 Haven't deleted the on-board audio. Will try that soon!

 The drivers didn't work for me, already tried them  Still got bluescreens.


----------



## PurpleAngel

androb said:


> Haven't deleted the on-board audio. Will try that soon!
> 
> The drivers didn't work for me, already tried them  Still got bluescreens.


 
  
 Deleting the motherboard's on-board audio software/drivers is optional.
 You need to make sure the on-board is disabled, in the BIOS.


----------



## bcschmerker4

androb said:


> Haven't deleted the on-board audio. Will try that soon!
> 
> The drivers didn't work for me, already tried them  Still got bluescreens.


 
 I cannot rule out the need to install the latest Maxed Tech® UNi™ XONAR® Audio Software™ in Safe Mode, having recently had the out-of-sync Power Status problem on my Asus® CM1630-06 when updating from Release 1.63 to 1.71 (under Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001, Kernel 6.1.7601).  Winboxes, under certain conditions, can be quite temperamental with new hardware of any sort, and some drivers will only install in Safe Mode. (In my case, the planar VIA® VT1208 was already forced offline at the BIOS level and therefore not a factor in the failed-install issue.)


----------



## Androb

bcschmerker4 said:


> I cannot rule out the need to install the latest Maxed Tech® UNi™ XONAR® Audio Software™ in Safe Mode, having recently had the out-of-sync Power Status problem on my Asus® CM1630-06 when updating from Release 1.63 to 1.71 (under Microsoft® Windows® 7.0.8001, Kernel 6.1.7601).  Winboxes, under certain conditions, can be quite temperamental with new hardware of any sort, and some drivers will only install in Safe Mode. (In my case, the planar VIA® VT1208 was already forced offline at the BIOS level and therefore not a factor in the failed-install issue.)


 
 Ehm it seems like it's something with my soundcard that is wrong. Using USB to the dac now and it's working perfect.


----------



## ogarmi21

Not sure if they will design a balanced out put on this sound card.


----------



## bcschmerker4

ogarmi21 said:


> Not sure if they will design a balanced out put on this sound card.


 

 In fact, the only member of the Asus® XONAR® family with balanced outputs is the Essence™ STU™, a USB device with integrated power supply.  Balanced outputs are not currently supported on any internal sound card, ISA, PCI, or PCIe, with the exception of the E-MU® 1010 and 1010e from Creative® Professional™; the 1010 and 1010e require an external connection box for XLR balanced outs.


----------



## eXistencelies

Just purchased this card along with the Q701s. I use my onboard sound for my 5.1 speakers. They are the basic logitech. So nothing special. I do use them when I am watching a stream on twitch. Im hoping I can leave the onboard sound enabled while using the STX for my headphones. I will of course will have to go to sound properties and switch between the two. That is what I do right now with these crappy Razer Kraken 7.1 USB gaming headphones I have. Not sure if anyone has done this?


----------



## Gixxer420

Anyone using the STX under Windows 8.1? The sound is just so damn awful, I'm using the latest UNI drivers too. Worked perfect under 7 and 8.


----------



## CT007

I just replaced the stock op amps with 3 LME49990's from ebay...
  
 The sound is now much more detailed, but also significantly quieter, the bass is practically gone, and it definitely sounds distorted, like some instruments are played way off in the background...
  
 What the heck is going on? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Do I only need to replace the B & C op amps, to affect RCA output or something? I don't use the headphone port.
  
 Thanks!
  
  
 EDIT: I put stock op amp A back in, and now the headphone output sounds very similar to the stock RCA sound, perhaps less harsh, or missing some detail, and the RCA output still sounds very hollow & bass-less. According the STX op amp replacement guide I downloaded, it says to replace all 3 op amps to change RCA sound, so I don't understand why it sounds so bad... Stock RCA seems best still, and I just dropped $45 for these? :\
  
 EDIT 2: The weird audio problem was this POS cable I had just gotten & tried for the first time along with the new op amps... After swapping the op amps several times, I conclude there is negligible difference(using HD600). If there is a difference, the 49990 is _minutely_ less harsh, and has _minutely_ less impact/bass. The 49990 through the headphone output did sound better than stock, however it's still not as good as stock RCA sound. After the 9th or so op amp swap, I accidentally put one of my stock chips in backwards, and got to smell melting plastic, which lead to a burnt chip and no left channel...so now I'm stuck with the 49990. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's all good!


----------



## PurpleAngel

gixxer420 said:


> Anyone using the STX under Windows 8.1? The sound is just so damn awful, I'm using the latest UNI drivers too. Worked perfect under 7 and 8.


 
  
 Is your on-board audio disabled? in the BIOS.


----------



## IncredulousD

I just wanted to pop in to thank this thread sincerely. I find a lot of audiophile stuff to be a bunch of hogwash, but I do have a pair of HD 800s and an Essence STX that I've used for years now. I just discovered this thread tonight and I have to say there is an absolute night and day difference in the sound I am getting with these cans after setting up foobar properly and using the unified drivers. The soundstage, which always floored me, is somehow even more amazing and the bass is just so tight and defined. Really a genuine enhancement to my listening experience. Thanks again for taking the time to gather this information up!


----------



## networkn

incredulousd said:


> I just wanted to pop in to thank this thread sincerely. I find a lot of audiophile stuff to be a bunch of hogwash, but I do have a pair of HD 800s and an Essence STX that I've used for years now. I just discovered this thread tonight and I have to say there is an absolute night and day difference in the sound I am getting with these cans after setting up foobar properly and using the unified drivers. The soundstage, which always floored me, is somehow even more amazing and the bass is just so tight and defined. Really a genuine enhancement to my listening experience. Thanks again for taking the time to gather this information up!


 
  
 Could you post the URL to the particular posts relating to "setting up foobar correctly" please?


----------



## IncredulousD

Sure - one poster linked to the HeadFi wiki, which you can find for the STX at http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx#wiki
  
 Took 5 minutes to disable on-board audio which was mentioned a few posts back, find an ASIO plugin for Foobar, set up the PPHS resampler dsp and bam! For opinions, what do you folks think about running out of the STX into a Schiit Valhalla 2? I'd love to compare the two amp styles, so I was thinking of picking up one.


----------



## networkn

Well I'm thinking I want to re-enable my onboard so I can have a second Toslink. One for my BiFrost DAC and the other for my Logitech Speakers. Someone said to connect my logitech speakers via analog but I would think a digital link would be superior right?


----------



## CT007

incredulousd said:


> ...after setting up foobar properly...


 
 I dunno how people use that program. :\ It's like DOS... MusicBee did the trick for me(ASIO, WASAPI), good enough to live without WinAmp, although I miss having a hotkey to "rate song 5-stars".


----------



## powerhouse64

Just for reference, I am using the Xonar Essence STX for nearly a year now on a Linux Mint PC. No issues whatsoever. I'm running Gmusicbrowser using ALSA in a bitperfect setup (here is how it's done: http://www.head-fi.org/t/561961/bit-perfect-audio-from-linux#post_7596268). The onboard sound is disabled. The STX drives either a deVa amplifier or my Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250 Ohm headphones.


----------



## lucianpescaru

Has anyone used LM6172 opamp in IV position? Is it stable? Needs any extra decoupling?


----------



## neogeosnk

Was wondering how to install the DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER opamps on my ST??   Does 1&8 represent the “U” shaped cut on the original opamp?  I'm also buying from frugalphile but wanted to make sure so I don't burn anything up.


----------



## Izzot

Does anyone know if it's possible to duplicate your sound card as a second device output? 
  

↖                                    ↗
 Here is an example for anyone confused. 
  
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Spenty

Does anywhere sell the STX with upgraded opamps preinstalled?


----------



## PurpleAngel

neogeosnk said:


> Was wondering how to install the DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 ADAPTER op-amps on my ST??   Does 1&8 represent the “U” shaped cut on the original op-amp?  I'm also buying from Frugalphile but wanted to make sure so I don't burn anything up.


 
  
 I'm not around my STX right now, so I can't double check.
 But there should be a small white half circle (You call it "U" shaped) on one end of the dual op-amps to DIP-8 adapter (Assuming it's were the 1 & 8 is)
 There should also be a small notch in the white outline of the buffer and I/V slots.
 So those two notch/circles should be lined up and show you how the op-amp/adapter should be facing.
 I'm guess the 1&8 should be towards the back panel of the ST.


----------



## PurpleAngel

networkn said:


> Well I'm thinking I want to re-enable my on-board so I can have a second Toslink. One for my BiFrost DAC and the other for my Logitech Speakers. Someone said to connect my Logitech speakers via analog but I would think a digital link would be superior right?


 
  
 Chances are the CS4398 DAC chip on the Xonar DX/D1 (used $60) offers better audio quality then whatever DAC feature was built into the Logitech 5.1 speakers.
 A Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z also comes with the CS4398 DAC chip.
 Both the Xonar DX/D1 (Dolby Headphone) and SB-Z (SBX Headphone) comes with optical output and 5.1 analog speaker output.


----------



## Spenty

Anyone went from a lower xonar card like a DGX to the STX and noticed a difference? I have the chance to pickup an STX at a reduced price brand new tomorrow but don't know if it's going to offer a noticeable improvement.


----------



## genclaymore

the STX will offer you a better headphone as well op-amp rolling which you don't have on the DGX. so if you can get it cheap, i would say go for it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

spenty said:


> Anyone went from a lower Xonar card like a DGX to the STX and noticed a difference? I have the chance to pickup an STX at a reduced price brand new tomorrow but don't know if it's going to offer a noticeable improvement.


 
  
 It might depend on the headphones, but you should notice some amount of audio quality improvement.
 What headphones are you using?
 What price for the STX?


----------



## Spenty

Phillips Fidelio X1
 £109 for the STX


----------



## IncredulousD

Just to have another flavor around I am expecting my Schiit Valhalla 2 to arrive tomorrow! From what I gather, I'll be running RCA out from the STX to the Valhalla and the STX will just act as a DAC. Advice on the best settings for the STX in this mode? I normally have it on the highest gain for the HD 800s but I believe I should keep it on the lowest gain setting with volume maxed and just use the Valhalla's volume control. I'm sure the line out signal already takes into account that you'll be using it just as a DAC since it uses a different part of the board. Any other settings I should change or have enabled to make sure the STX just acts as a DAC or does the line out signal automatically take care of that?


----------



## whirlwind

Should i go from coax from stx to my dac
  
 Or should I just use usb
  
 I have bought a new dac
  
  
 Thinking coax from stx to ps audio nuwave to mad ear +hd
  
 Does this sound right


----------



## genclaymore

The only reason to use your STX thru optical or coax is if you want to run dolby headphone from the STX into your external for games or your usb ports are flaky like mine. Other wise use the USB and keep the STX for backup or sell it.


----------



## whirlwind

genclaymore said:


> The only reason to use your STX thru optical or coax is if you want to run dolby headphone from the STX into your external for games or your usb ports are flaky like mine. Other wise use the USB and keep the STX for backup or sell it.


 
  
 Well, that is what I was thinking....for gaming purpose....I could still use my stx by going optical....correct


----------



## genclaymore

whirlwind said:


> Well, that is what I was thinking....for gaming purpose....I could still use my stx by going optical....correct


 

 Yea


----------



## whirlwind

Great...thanks  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 So I will be able to use my dolby headphone for playing games....but still be using my ps audio nuwave & MadEar for music


----------



## genclaymore

Just make sure to set the windows speaker settings to 5.1 and games too and set asus panel input to 5.1 so dolby headphone will work better.


----------



## whirlwind

Great....thanks


----------



## eggyhustles

Have new modded drivers been released in the last 6 months or so?


----------



## bgalakazam

eggyhustles said:


> Have new modded drivers been released in the last 6 months or so?


 
 I don't know, probably not. I just ordered the card and am split between installing the ASUS driver or the unified one. I run Windows 8.1. Current latest drivers I found:
  
ASUS official - Beta Version  8.1.8.1822 *- **2014.01.06*
  
UNi Xonar -  version 1.72 (based on 1822) - *06.01.2014*


----------



## Spenty

Had no issues with the official ASUS drivers, do the unified ones offer anything to make me bother switching?


----------



## FangJoker

I want to use my IEM and a zalman clip on zm-1 mic.  Both have 3.5mm connectors and I've been looking for adapters to make it work with the asus stx, but I'm not 100% sure which adapters for the mic and for the headphones to buy.  Can anyone PM me or post the link for adapters that will make this work. Thanks.   I don't want to get a mixamp pro or cheap usb amp/dac to make it work if possible.  I'm just looking for the proper 3.5mm to 1/4" adapters for the IEM and for the microphone.


----------



## FangJoker

I'm also having issues with the mic and the current adapter I have.  No sound is coming out.  I probably need a different adapter (mono or stereo?) or just get a cheap usb sound card for gaming.  I really would rather get an adapter to work with my sound card since sound output works. I just can't get the mic to work.


----------



## FangJoker

There's new uni drivers out so I installed it and now my mic works.  Now I just need another 3.5mm to 1/4" stereo plug.  I really don't want to spend money for just one game where I'll hardly be using the mic anyway.


----------



## bgalakazam

spenty said:


> Had no issues with the official ASUS drivers, do the unified ones offer anything to make me bother switching?


 
 The unified has modes that lower the DPS latency from 0.2ms to about 0.125ms. For some music content creators this is a huge difference. I saw many people quoting the card an Amazon as not being good for content creation. The default DPS latency is just fine for music, movies, gaming, and playback in general.
  
 The other stuff with reducing the boot time and memory usage is probably irrelevant now, but 4 years ago may have been useful.


----------



## Veedo

Been running the stx in stock form for a year or so now and I do like it a lot, but looking to experiment with op amps. I'm using the rca outs to a small ta2021 indeed t amp, driving a pair of energy rc10's near field at the moment. I'm looking through various threads on the stx, and there is a lot of info out there for sure. Just looking to see what you guys thought would be a good starting point, and maybe some tips on where to purchase. I know this is subjective, but if you could point me towards some I might like to try, that'd be cool. Should also add that I'd like to try near field monitors in the future to see the difference vs bookshelf's, so if you have input on that feel free to chime in. Thanks.


----------



## Schroeder

Hey,


 


just a quick question.


Does the Essence STX provide full 7.1 Dolby Headphone support without the use of Virtual Speaker Shifter?


For example: DTS HD-Master Audio Sound Check 7.1 (Lossless); from: http://www.demo-world.eu/trailers/high-definition-trailers.php


Do you get the 7.1 impression with just Dolby Headphone activated or do you have to also activate Virtual Speaker Shifter?


 


Thanks for reading,


Schroeder


----------



## Valhallatier

those who has the essence STX with beyer DT880 250ohm, can you share your impressions?
 wanna buy the soundcard for my DT880


----------



## PurpleAngel

veedo said:


> Been running the STX in stock form for a year or so now and I do like it a lot, but looking to experiment with op amps. I'm using the RCA outs to a small TA2021 indeed t amp, driving a pair of energy RC10's near field at the moment. I'm looking through various threads on the STX, and there is a lot of info out there for sure. Just looking to see what you guys thought would be a good starting point, and maybe some tips on where to purchase. I know this is subjective, but if you could point me towards some I might like to try, that'd be cool. Should also add that I'd like to try near field monitors in the future to see the difference vs bookshelf's, so if you have input on that feel free to chime in. Thanks.


 
  
 LME49720NA are only $4 each and they are a dual channel op-amp.
 Technically the LM4652 op-amp in the STX's buffer (DIP-8) slot is a renamed LME49720NA
 So would just need to replace the two JRC2114 op-amps in the I/V slots
  
 I installed three AD797BR (SOIC) op-amps in my STX, $17.99 each (3 X 17.99 = $55.97)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4b48da0
  
 LME49990 (SOIC) are also popular op-amps for the STX, $14.99 each, (3 X 14.99 = $44.97)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/201139716454?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2ed4dc8166
  
 The AD797BR & LME49990 are single channel (SOIC) op-amps, so they have to be soldered on to a dual (SOIC) to DIP-8 adapter.
 The two eBay lists are for pre-soldered op-amps, both sells have good reputations.
  
 There are other op-amps what will work on the STX, but I can't remember their model number.


----------



## PurpleAngel

valhallatier said:


> those who has the essence STX with beyer DT880 250ohm, can you share your impressions?
> wanna buy the soundcard for my DT880


 
  
 The STX/DT880 combo works fine (both the Pro 250-Ohm & Premium 600-Ohm)


----------



## neogeosnk

Just throwing my two cents out there.  I almost dumped the Xonar ST, but then I got the DUAL SOIC LME49990 omp amps.  Wow, game changer for me.  Everything sounds significantly better, after about 40 hours burnin time.


----------



## wrists

hi, ive got the essence ST. can you recommend me a music player and what settings/plugins to use (asio, wasapi, ..?)
  
 i am currently using foobar with wasapi (ive got hd600 as headphones)


----------



## PurpleAngel

wrists said:


> hi, I've got the essence ST. can you recommend me a music player and what settings/plugins to use (asio, wasapi, ..?)
> 
> I am currently using foobar with wasapi (I've got hd600 as headphones)


 
  
 I believe Foobar200 with WASAPI is about as good as it gets.
  
 But here is a list of lots of free (and maybe shareware) audio players.
 If you find something you think is better then Foobar2000, lets us know.
 http://www.majorgeeks.com/mg/sortpopularity/audio.html


----------



## wrists

cool, thanks


----------



## Kid 1

Hi I'm considering an Essence STX but i have a question as how much heat  this sound card can endure. the ONLY pci slot I have open is above my geforce GTX480s in SLI. I do have a well ventilated Cooler Master Sniper case with 4 large fans in it. the sound card will be about 1/2 to 3/4 inch above the GTX480.


----------



## cladisch

> how much heat  this sound card can endure


 
  
 For the effects of heat on the sound quality, see page 12 of the PCM1792A datasheet.
  
 The card itself should work fine. None of the card's components are run near their limits.
 (Compare with a CPU or GPU: 192 kHz is 0.000192 GHz.)
  
 If you want to improve cooling, _remove_ the shield from the card (it's just for show).


----------



## Kid 1

Thx so much for your reply and tip on the shield. after reading through the datasheet for the dac the performance does not change under a wide array temperatures.I'll be ordering the stx tonight looking forward to the sweet sounds.


----------



## Kid 1

Well just ordered the STX it will be here by the weekend. so the next question is what drivers do you guys think I should use, the latest from ASUS or the latest unified drivers? I'll be using the sound card on windows 7 64bit.


----------



## Lorienblack

I know this has been asked before but I remain a little confused after reading replies. I have the option of digital out "coax spdif" from my asus motherboard and the option of the stx digital out "coax spdif". 

Is there an appreciable difference/improvement by using the sound card? And to what extent can the stx implement room EQ or DSP that might make it a keeper? 

Many thanks for your thoughts or experiences.


----------



## mindbomb

dolby headphone allows you to experience surround sound from games and movies, and music I guess if you have any 5.1 music. Though an stx doing just that is overkill, as the $30 xonar dgx can do that as well over digital. Actually, I guess for music, there is a dolby headphone plugin for foobar that you can use instead.


----------



## Aegen

Is there a method to limit the maximum volume? I rarely go over 10% with the windows volume setting and would like forcibly limit the output capability just in case software glitches happen and sets the system volume to a deafening 100%.

It has already happened twice while using MPC. NOT fun.


----------



## mindbomb

aegen said:


> Is there a method to limit the maximum volume? I rarely go over 10% with the windows volume setting and would like forcibly limit the output capability just in case software glitches happen and sets the system volume to a deafening 100%.
> 
> It has already happened twice while using MPC. NOT fun.


 
 I have had this happen as well, but I'm pretty sure it was because I configured my audio renderer in a peculiar way. Actually, can you tell me more about what happened in your case, I think it might have been the same deal.
  
 As for volume limiting, idk, use headphones that require a lot of power to get loud?


----------



## Aegen

mindbomb said:


> I have had this happen as well, but I'm pretty sure it was because I configured my audio renderer in a peculiar way. Actually, can you tell me more about what happened in your case, I think it might have been the same deal.
> 
> As for volume limiting, idk, use headphones that require a lot of power to get loud?



Can't really recall, but it definitely had something to do with audio renderers screwing up. The first time was maximum volume and the second time was a loud tone at maximum volume. Luckily both times I was only wearing disposable Walmart iems and not my expensive ones.


----------



## mindbomb

aegen said:


> Can't really recall, but it definitely had something to do with audio renderers screwing up. The first time was maximum volume and the second time was a loud tone at maximum volume. Luckily both times I was only wearing disposable Walmart iems and not my expensive ones.


 
 what audio renderer were you using? default directsound? or something else like reclock.


----------



## Aegen

mindbomb said:


> what audio renderer were you using? default directsound? or something else like reclock.




Reclock was probably what caused the loud tone at 100%. I think I opened a video while listening to foobar and then it happened. Tried to replicate it but couldn't. 

Now that I think about it also happens in games sometimes too, but very rarely. Been using the uni drivers the entire time.


----------



## mindbomb

aegen said:


> Reclock was probably what caused the loud tone at 100%. I think I opened a video while listening to foobar and then it happened. Tried to replicate it but couldn't.
> 
> Now that I think about it also happens in games sometimes too, but very rarely. Been using the uni drivers the entire time.


 
 I've had this issue when i set up reclock to be bitperfect. I think that was the problem, since it isn't intended to be used like that. When I use reclock's regular settings with wasapi, it never happens.
  
 edit - so i think i know why this happens, it's caused by the buffer in the renderer being too low. I'm able to recreate it frequently under those situations.


----------



## suryahalim

I just Purchased STX card and going to upgrade the omp amp to LME49990 which i purchased from here
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-of-LME49990MAs-converted-to-1-dual-op-amp-DIP8-for-Xonar-Essence-HUD-MX1-STX-/281404248667?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Parts_Accessories&hash=item418500125b. and i would like to ask is there any correct way to change the omp amp since i have to import it because cannot find it in my country i dont want to ruin it by installing the wrong way. btw this is my first time changing omp amp 
  
 Thanks
 Surya Halim


----------



## Lorienblack

Your replacements have the PIN numbers printed on top, this is your savior. Look up the specs of the opamp your replacing and you will see the position of its pins in relation to the orientation of the opamp. Your original will have the generic scoop out of one end. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## PurpleAngel

suryahalim said:


> I just Purchased STX card and going to upgrade the op-amp to LME49990 which i purchased from here
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-of-LME49990MAs-converted-to-1-dual-op-amp-DIP8-for-Xonar-Essence-HUD-MX1-STX-/281404248667?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Parts_Accessories&hash=item418500125b. and i would like to ask is there any correct way to change the op-amp since i have to import it because cannot find it in my country i don't want to ruin it by installing the wrong way. btw this is my first time changing op-amp
> 
> Thanks
> Surya Halim


 
  
 Did you buy 2 (4 chips) or 3 (6 chips) of these LME49990 pre-soldered op-amps?
  
 On the Essence STX there is a white line around the op-amp socket, on one end there is a "V" notch.
 And on the soldered op-amps, there is a while rectangular outline on top of the adapter, with a "U" shaped notch (looks more like a cut in half O).
 You want to V and the U to be next to each other, when you install the newer op-amps
  
 Unless you have an op-amp extraction device, I'm assuming you will be using something like a really tiny flat head screwdriver to remove the stock op-amp.
 Guess you want to use the screwdriver on each end of the stock op-amp (switching several times) to slowly prop it out of the socket.
 You might want to make sure the stock op-amps are not damaged, otherwise if the newer LME49990 op-amps being shipped to you do not work, you would want to be able to reinstall the stock op-amps.


----------



## Nirraven

I am searching for an STX upgrade, but i am not sure what i should get...
  
 I have a AKG 702 and i love the great soundstage and i also wanna an op amp what gives me a better soundstage and maybe a little bit more punchie bass.
  
 I heared the muses 01 or 02 have a good soundstage but what would better for my taste?
  
 I also heared good things in this thread about the LME49990, can anyone describe me the differences between muses01/02 and LME49990?


----------



## Broco07

Sorry for this noobish question, but I am a newbie to this place. Im an owner of Xonar Essence ST. Should I replace the stock opamps for some better ones, does the change affect also the headphone output, or is this feature related only to speaker output? Thanks!


----------



## CT007

Just upgraded my cpu, and ordered a motherboard without any PCI-E 1x slots...doh! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So I'm gonna try sticking the Xonar in my 2nd PCI-E 16x slot and see if it works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Onboard sound ain't bad, but the STX is nicer 
  
 EDIT: Looks like it worked!


----------



## WarrenR

Hi all.
  
 I need some guidance.  I have some HD650's and would like to try a couple of inexpensive opamps so I am looking at the _LME49720__'s.  _I can pick them for up for £3.70 each.  So If all I use the card for is Headphone use do I only need two of these in the I/V stage?  What about the buffer stage?  Does the buffer opamp have any bearing on the I/V stage at all?  Should I pick up an extra _LME49720__ _for that too or just save my money?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## IncredulousD

Wondering if anyone has run into this strange issue I am having with my STX (using unified drivers). I recently purchased a Valhalla 2 and have been running STX > Valhalla 2 > HD 800s. Everything was going great for a few weeks but now I am starting to notice some strange noise issues just at my normal listening volume. There can be sort of a low electronic hum/squeal in the background and it changes depending on how I move my mouse or what programs I load. This is not the tubes since that is a different type of noise I only hear when cranking the volume knob past realistic and safe listening levels. Different programs or games will have a different hum. Nothing has changed temperature-wise in my case but I am wondering if maybe an issue developed with the amp chips for the line out, since I never used them until I purchased an external amplifier. I plan on trouble-shooting all the different listening steps but wanted a place to focus on if anyone has an idea.


----------



## FangJoker

All of a sudden the unified drivers wouldn't show spdif so I had to uninstall and use the latest (updated last year) drivers from asus and all is good again.


----------



## IncredulousD

I'm going to try uninstalling the unified and re-installin the original ASUS ones, then. I'll report back with results!


----------



## FangJoker

incredulousd said:


> I'm going to try uninstalling the unified and re-installin the original ASUS ones, then. I'll report back with results!


 
  
  
 I hope it works but it sounds like an electronic noise issue.  Maybe you need to move the card into a different slot or maybe some cable is causing it to make noise.


----------



## Kristijonas

Hello, anyone tried Burson op-amps for Xonar or Sound Blasters? They look pretty cool.
 http://www.partsconnexion.com/opamp_burson.html


----------



## SolAr]![s

It's look like some did:
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-stx-sound-card-upgraded-with-burson-opamps/#comment-71


----------



## Kristijonas

Looks impressive... Would really like to hear more people tell of their own subjective experiences with the changes in the sound quality. 
 I have a Sound Blaster ZXR and want to mod it, but it is so difficult to choose op-amps. Especially when there's 4 of them. I still don't understand why some people put different kind of op-amps into different slots... Why not just put the best/favorite into all four slots...


----------



## skullmonkee

Hi there
  
 I recently purchased some LME49990 op amps, similar to these:
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320863638478?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
  
 However, when ever they are in, the sound is extremely low.  I am 99.99% sure this is not caused by any settings on the computer, as i can put the stock op amps back in without changing a thing and the sound level becomes normal again.
  
 I was hoping someone could give me some suggestions about why this is happening?  Is there some kind of extra trick to installing them?  Could they be dead or broken?  I find this hard to believe since i can hear sound (albeit barely).
  
 Any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## verde57

Need a confirmation, Is the ST/STX still the king in computer audio or not?


----------



## PurpleAngel

verde57 said:


> Need a confirmation, Is the ST/STX still the king in computer audio or not?


 
  
 ST/STX is as good, audio quality wise, as any other main steam sound card.
 Technically the SB-ZxR has a slightly better line-output.


----------



## Place Holder

.


----------



## verde57

Most important factors to me for this category are  : DAC chip, clock(clocks), modding capabilities and also important background noise levels.
 and that is why I'm saying ST/STX is the king.


----------



## wasabi8tr

Hi,
 anybody know of any difference between the authentic MUSES1/MUSES2 ones and the fake ones?
 Do they sound soundwise the same as the originals I mean not build quality wise ..
  
 Are the fake ones even of NJR MUSES identical type or are they relabeled and disguised as other OPAMPS inside like some LME,NJM;HA Opamps instead?
  
 What are the risks using fake Opamps? Can they damage the equipment?
  
 I ordered some MUSES02 MUSES01 a week ago but only just noticed that they are retailing at higher prices on other sites.
 I think they might be fake ones bc of the price.
  
 I ordered them for the  ASUS Xonar Essence ST soundcard are there any OPAMP recommendations for this card?
 And what to use as buffers? Some recommend the MUSES with the HA-5002 some say the OPA1611+LME49600 is the better combo.
  
 Where should I insert the MUSES2 on the soundcard? Switch the LM4562NA with the MUSES?


----------



## wasabi8tr

http://i.imgur.com/ksNCykp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HlAcmJy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lFq7q3N.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/14qHmvM.jpg

 ?


----------



## wasabi8tr

Whats the best Opamp combination out there?
  
 Can someone explain me what I/V means? And what does Buffer mean?
  
 Can I put for example a LME49720 in the buffer zone and I/V zone ?
  
 Whats the difference between a J-FET and BI-Polar OPAMP?


----------



## verde57

I use 2 x LME49990 and OPA627AU in the buffer, and they can be switched either way
  
 opamp can be single or dual per channel:
 http://cimarrontechnology.com/audioupgradeadapters.aspx


----------



## PurpleAngel

wasabi8tr said:


> Whats the best Op-amp combination out there?
> Can someone explain me what I/V means? And what does Buffer mean?
> Can I put for example a LME49720 in the buffer zone and I/V zone ?
> Whats the difference between a J-FET and BI-Polar OPAMP?


 
  
 I use AD797BR op-amps ($17.99 each) in my Essence STX and I do like them.
 It's cost me $54 for three AD797BR (soldered) op-amps for my STX.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4b48da0
 The Essence ST (& STX) uses the 2 I/V slots for the headphone output, the line-output (RCAs) use all three op-amps (I/V & buffer)
 The LM4652 op-amp used in the buffer is the same as the LME49720.
 Replacing the the two JMC2114 op-amps in the I/V slots with LME49720 is very common
  
 The LME49990 ($14.99 each) is a well liked op-amp for the Essence ST/STX
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUAL-SOIC-LME49990-DIP8-ADAPTER-/201176398615?pt=US_Amplifier_Parts_Components&hash=item2ed70c3b17
  
 The op-amps slots on the STX/ST are dual channel (DIP-8) and the AD797BR and LME49990 are single channel (SOIC) op-amps.
 So two SOIC op-amps need to be soldered on to an adapter, for them to work with the DIP-8 slots on the ST/STX sound cards.


----------



## Strangelove424

I recently put the stock op amps back into the IV position and put a 49860 (the descendant of the stock 4562) in the buffer. I have come to the conclusion that it sounds best this way. The 49860s in IV position creates an extremely bright sound, far brighter than neutral I think. The STX, with 49860 op amps, has always been the odd man out in all my gear - the bright source. I have a Denon AVR that has an accurate DAC and headphone out, and after putting the stock op amps back in the STX both sources now sound very similar. If the measurements that were included for each of our cards were done with JRC2114s, and the circuit itself designed for those op amps, then by changing the op amps I think those measurements are no longer valid. Once the op amps are switched, there is no telling how our card is behaving without testing. I don't have proper testing equipment, but I would be willing to bet the 49860s create a higher distortion level in the higher frequencies than the stock op amps, despite the fact that the TI opamps themselves have better specs. Implementation in the circuit is everything, and despite having lower THD+N, perhaps the TIs have different voltage characteristics that don't mesh with the STX's design. 

 These impressions were gathered on both a DT880/600 and HD600, so I don't think one op amp favors a warm headphone or the other a cold one. With the TI op amps in the IV spots, the Beyers displayed an almost bullet-like quality to the high frequencies and the HD600's treble sounded grainy. After playing with EQ, I found the bullet-like highs on the DT880s and graininess on the HD600 was a symptom of increased activity in the 4khz-8khz region, which the TI49860s seem to emphasize. The stock op amps gave both headphones a more balanced response, and made them sound more similiar to my other sources. I truly believe the JRCs are closer to neutral as implemented within this specific circuit design.

 I had ordered 49990s and adapters, and was planning to try that next. But after reading about heat and stability issues, I am coming round to the idea of leaving the card alone. Just my two cents.


----------



## recepky

Hİ guys
  
 Sorry I am sorry to disturb you, but
 if anybody out there still using stock drivers, delete them and go for the Unified drivers. 
  
 I was using official drivers until now but today I give the unified drivers a try and with the first song in the spotify(through fidelify) I must say that sound difference is just like day and night IMHO
  
 I installed Cmedia panel installation, the difference was like modding the precision clock of the card. Because I get this much improvement before, with my Audio-GD master clock upgrade on this card.
  
 again; if you have a good headphones(like hd 600) or stereo system, you will notice the difference just like me, dynamics, details, bass definition... everything is perfect now


----------



## wrists

do you mean those? http://maxedtech.com/
 do they really improve the sound quality or just fix some bugs?


----------



## recepky

wrists said:


> do you mean those? http://maxedtech.com/
> do they really improve the sound quality or just fix some bugs?


 
 yes I mean those, they really improved the quality. I am using DIY tube preamp with bang olufsen power amp and ELAC 108.2 stereo speakers, and sennheiser hd600 as phones. I can definetely tell you these drivers improved the sound quality through my system. I think low DPC latency of this driver has caused this improvement.  bass texture and musical dynamics are far better than old official asus driver.


----------



## wrists

k i might test them, are there any problems with uninstalling them if i dont like them?


----------



## wrists

which one is recommended btw, normal, low or cmedia?


----------



## Ari33

wrists said:


> which one is recommended btw, normal, low or cmedia?


 
  
 I cant speak for the other drivers but Im using the 1822 1.72 drivers with my ST which gives me a nice low DPC latency, great sound quality and no issues found as yet with Win7 64bit, Asus z77 v-pro, I5 2500k and 128GB SSD.
  
 Unrelated issue-A dodgy ASmedia USB3 driver initially give me big issues with DPC latency but once I rolled back that driver everything was perfect.
  
 I haven't had to uninstall them but if you have any problems uninstalling them use CCleaner or similar to remove the drivers and you shouldn't have any issues.


----------



## wrists

ok thanks, ye i got the same driver version. but there are different options. but i guess they are similar, mostly just different control panels


----------



## combat fighter

Hi there,
  
 I currently have a Asus Essence STXII sound card upgraded with 3x (genuine) MUSES01. Have to say it does sound really good but I am wondering how much better would the Asus Essence One Muses edition be compared to my STXII with muses01?
  
 I was thinking if I ever did go for Asus Essence One Muses edition I can put my Muses01 in the Essence one plus that would mean I only need 2 more to max it out. 
  
 I'd love to know!


----------



## PurpleAngel

combat fighter said:


> I currently have a Asus Essence STXII sound card upgraded with 3x (genuine) MUSES01. Have to say it does sound really good but I am wondering how much better would the Asus Essence One Muses edition be compared to my STXII with muses01?
> I was thinking if I ever did go for Asus Essence One Muses edition I can put my Muses01 in the Essence one plus that would mean I only need 2 more to max it out.
> I'd love to know!


 
  
 For an external, you might be better off getting a Audio-GD NFB-15 or NFB-11.


----------



## combat fighter

purpleangel said:


> For an external, you might be better off getting a Audio-GD NFB-15 or NFB-11.


 
  
 Why would I be better to get them over the Asus Essence One Muses edition?
  
 Is it simply on price?


----------



## PurpleAngel

combat fighter said:


> Why would I be better to get them over the Asus Essence One Muses edition?
> Is it simply on price?


 
  
 Yep, price.
 My best guess(?) is the Audio-GD would offer compatible audio quality to the Essence One, but for less money.


----------



## bcschmerker4

combat fighter said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I currently have a Asus Essence STXII sound card upgraded with 3x (genuine) MUSES01. Have to say it does sound really good but I am wondering how much better would the Asus Essence One Muses edition be compared to my STXII with muses01?
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the advance report on the 3x (6x?) MUSES01, which I'll further research - might make a better installation than the 12x NSC/TI LME49990MA contingency, which requires adapter boards to fit the JEDEC 8-pin DIP sockets on my own STX.


----------



## Lev Ahriman

Hello everyone , first post here

 Been reading this thread for the past 2 weeks but still cant find an answer to my question 

 Using my STX with external amps via RCA (NAD C372 + C272) Bi-amp'd to external speakers
 also connected to Pioneer S-DJ05 from same RCA outputs =)
 and now i want to play around with the op-amps for the RCA output, don't care much about headphones =P
  
 as i understood that its 3 op-amps / 2 for headphones / one for RCA

 Now my Q is : in order to get results for the RCA output do i need to to change only the buffer output op-amp or all 3 need to be changed ? and any tips for op-amps?
 did anyone try muses02 ?

 Again i don't want to effect how the headphones sound , its only RCA whats really matters to me.
  
 Now if its only the buffer op-amp that can be changed then i can get 1 och each recommended models and test them out,
 I personally think that the stock op-amp is too bright for my taste , I'm looking for a deep dark warm tuby feel in sound or something similar to old school NAD sound, if someone heard hifi amps from the 80s will know what i mean =) 
  
 Thanks in advance 
 Greetings from Sweden.


----------



## PurpleAngel

lev ahriman said:


> Been reading this thread for the past 2 weeks but still cant find an answer to my question
> Using my STX with external amps via RCA (NAD C372 + C272) Bi-amp'd to external speakers
> also connected to Pioneer S-DJ05 from same RCA outputs =)
> and now i want to play around with the op-amps for the RCA output, don't care much about headphones =P
> ...


 
  
 With the Essence STX, the two I/V slotted op-amps are used for the headphone output, the line-output (RCA) uses all three op-amps.
 The LM4652 buffer op-amp is a relabeled LME49720.
  
 Which op-amps will give the deep dark warm tubby feel? I have no idea.


----------



## Lev Ahriman

Thanks PurpleAngel 
  
 Now i know all 3 need to be changed. I'm considering muses01 and 02 but
 I have no idea what op-amp would give me a warmer feel and that's why i dropped a question on here =)
 Noticed that a lot of people here have tested many kinds of op-amps so thought that maybe someone will turn up with a tip.


----------



## PurpleAngel

lev ahriman said:


> Thanks PurpleAngel
> 
> Now i know all 3 need to be changed. I'm considering muses01 and 02 but
> I have no idea what op-amp would give me a warmer feel and that's why i dropped a question on here =)
> Noticed that a lot of people here have tested many kinds of op-amps so thought that maybe someone will turn up with a tip.


 
  
 Might also try asking here.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread
  
 I went for the AD797BRs for my STX, the LME49990 seems to have good feedback.
 But I'm guessing these are not the op-amps your looking for.


----------



## brokenToaster

Guys, I really need some help, I think I fried my xonar stx.
  
 tl;dr plugged 4 pin into pci/cpu instead of sata
  
  
 I was upgrading my power supply, and I guess I got tired and plugged in the 4-pin peripheral power cable into the power supply's CPU/PCIE output instead of sata/peripheral. Now, windows reports the card working, it clicks as it should, and the xonar control center even shows waveforms being generated. However, there is no sound at all from the card. If I max out the gain/impedance, I get barely audible distorted sound, but other than that, it's quiet.
  
 I plugged it into the yellow, I was supposed to plug it into the green
 https://i.imgur.com/41bUTVj.jpg
 https://i.imgur.com/KsS7ka3.jpg
  
  
  Did I fry it? Can it be repaired?


----------



## PurpleAngel

brokentoaster said:


> Guys, I really need some help, I think I fried my Xonar STX.
> tl;dr plugged 4 pin into PCI/CPU instead of SATA
> I was upgrading my power supply, and I guess I got tired and plugged in the 4-pin peripheral power cable into the power supply's CPU/PCI-E output instead of sata/peripheral. Now, windows reports the card working, it clicks as it should, and the Xonar control center even shows waveforms being generated. However, there is no sound at all from the card. If I max out the gain/impedance, I get barely audible distorted sound, but other than that, it's quiet.
> I plugged it into the yellow, I was supposed to plug it into the green
> ...


 
  
 I'm far from an expert in this stuff, but I do not think what you did automatically fried the STX (but then again you just might have fried the headphone amplifier).
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, when you installed the STX.
 (Just in case that an active on-board audio is causing issues with the STX).


----------



## Lev Ahriman

purpleangel said:


> Might also try asking here.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread
> 
> I went for the AD797BRs for my STX, the LME49990 seems to have good feedback.
> But I'm guessing these are not the op-amps your looking for.


 
  
 Thanks PurpleAngel 

 I will Look into that.


----------



## brokenToaster

No, 


purpleangel said:


> I'm far from an expert in this stuff, but I do not think what you did automatically fried the STX (but then again you just might have fried the headphone amplifier).
> 
> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, when you installed the STX.
> (Just in case that an active on-board audio is causing issues with the STX).


 
 No, I did not disable the onboard audio. I have been using both simultaneously for two years without an issue. I can try disabling onboard, but i doubt it will be of much help, since it's supposed to be working either way. 
  
 Does this look like a burnt amp?

 http://imgur.com/pqk1Y89


----------



## PurpleAngel

brokentoaster said:


> No,
> No, I did not disable the on-board audio. I have been using both simultaneously for two years without an issue. I can try disabling on-board, but i doubt it will be of much help, since it's supposed to be working either way.
> Does this look like a burnt amp?
> http://imgur.com/pqk1Y89


 
  
 The op-amp (operational amplifier) might be burned out, luckily you can get some LME49720NA DIP-8 replacement op-amps for around $3-$4 each.
 People seem to like the LME49720NA op-amps a little better then the two JRC2114 stock op-amps, that come installed in the two I/V (DIP-8) slots.
 The third LM4652 op-amps, used in the buffer (DIP-8) slot, is a relabeled LME49720NA.
 Maybe order 3 op-amps to replace all the STX's stock op-amps, just to be safe.
  
 If replacing the op-amps (and maybe disabling on-board), does not help, then you might be looking at replacing the Essence STX with another STX or something else.


----------



## brokenToaster

purpleangel said:


> The op-amp (operational amplifier) might be burned out, luckily you can get some LME49720NA DIP-8 replacement op-amps for around $3-$4 each.
> People seem to like the LME49720NA op-amps a little better then the two JRC2114 stock op-amps, that come installed in the two I/V (DIP-8) slots.
> The third LM4652 op-amps, used in the buffer (DIP-8) slot, is a relabeled LME49720NA.
> Maybe order 3 op-amps to replace all the STX's stock op-amps, just to be safe.
> ...


 
 Thank you for your response. Do you have any idea as to what might have happened to the card itself? It has no signs of damage, and worked absolutely great before. Lastly, could all three amps be burned out, since I don't hear any sound from the headphone or the RCA ports? The heaphones/speakers also click when switching inputs, something that didn't happen before.
  
 Edit: Are these the right amps?
  
LM4562 (1x buffer)
  
LME49720NA (2x IV)


----------



## PurpleAngel

brokentoaster said:


> Thank you for your response. Do you have any idea as to what might have happened to the card itself? It has no signs of damage, and worked absolutely great before. Lastly, could all three amps be burned out, since I don't hear any sound from the headphone or the RCA ports? The headphones/speakers also click when switching inputs, something that didn't happen before.
> 
> Edit: Are these the right amps?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Replacing the op-amps is about the only thing you can do to try to get the card working.
 Otherwise throwing the card away and buying something else is your only other current option I can think of.
  
 Those are the correct op-amps and both op-maps are listed with the same specs.
 Just buy three LME49720NA.


----------



## EdibleStereos

brokentoaster said:


> Guys, I really need some help, I think I fried my xonar stx.
> 
> tl;dr plugged 4 pin into pci/cpu instead of sata
> 
> ...


 

 You're card is dead most likely.

 The STX draws both 12v and 5v from the molex connector. You connected your molex connector to a header for PCI-E video cards, they ONLY output 12v.

 So your STX likely received 12v through sections designed for 5v. Over twice the designed voltage. It is likely dead. Parts do not have to show physical signs of damage to be destroyed.

 Next time, do not get fully modular power supplies, the fully modular system has no advantages. Also, don't buy cheap power supplies from what is probably an off-brand power supply. They have dirty power, tend to fail more often, and, which has turned out to be a costly lesson for you, they don't change their pin shapes for different connectors. Better brands change their connectors so that it is physically impossible for you to insert them into the wrong one.

 Sorry to hear man.


----------



## brokenToaster

ediblestereos said:


> Also, don't buy cheap power supplies from what is probably an off-brand power supply. They have dirty power, tend to fail more often, and, which has turned out to be a costly lesson for you, they don't change their pin shapes for different connectors.


 
 This doesn't apply here. I bought a Corsair AX unit.


> Better brands change their connectors so that it is physically impossible for you to insert them into the wrong one.


 
 No, they don't. Corsair didn't.


----------



## EdibleStereos

Well, can't say I've run into this problem with any of the modular power supplies I've owned. Though I stick to the Antec TruePower units, and they physically change the connectors, so that even if one is 2x3, or 2x4 pinouts, they physically can not be inserted into the connectors they are not meant for. It is a basic little thing I suppose, but it prevents mistakes. In this case a 200$ mistake.


----------



## Strangelove424

ediblestereos said:


> Next time, do not get fully modular power supplies, the fully modular system has no advantages.


 
  
 Coming from a semi-modular PSU to a fully modular one, I noticed there are actually many advantages, enough to convince me never to buy anything other than fully modular again. 
  
- No unnecessary cables need to be stuffed anywhere
 - If one of the cables becomes faulty, you only have to replace the faulty cable, not the entire PSU
 - If the PSU itself dies, you don't have to disassemble or re-cable the whole computer, just unhook cables and drop in a new PSU.


----------



## EdibleStereos

I've been building computers for over a decade and have never encountered any of those problems.
  
 An ATX cable and ATX 12v cable are always required. So full modular has no advantage over semi modular here.

 A cable should never become faulty. They are physical equipment, they do not fail unless they arrive faulty, or are abused. So no advantage for full modular here.

 Your last point would be the only case where a full modular would be of any advantage. Though if having to reroute an ATX and ATX12 cable is an issue that takes more then 60 seconds. Then something isn't right with the person.

 All of those things are very rare occurrences, and do not prove any real advantage.

 Though full modular has several disadvantages.

 An ATX and ATX12v cable are always required, so having them modular is unnecessary complexity. And adds another point of failure.

 Modular connectors increase resistance on high amp connections like the ATX12v and PCI-E. This can cause voltage drop, as well as provide a weak point for failure. In fact, there is reports of the same Corsair AX line the OP mentioned having their connectors melt and fuse together at the psu/source end. The actual metal got hot enough from resistance to fuse metal, high amp connections are best left soldered to the pcb inside the psu.

 Modular connectors can increase resistance and mess with vsense regulating power supplies.

 And then there is the problem the OP came across, that fully modular without connectors that vary their pins so that they can't be inserted into the wrong port and fry expensive hardware.


----------



## mindbomb

hey guys, I was wondering if the rca output still worked if you set analog output to headphone in the driver control panel? So that you could get the headphone specific effects with a different headphone amplifier.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mindbomb said:


> hey guys, I was wondering if the RCA output still worked if you set analog output to headphone in the driver control panel? So that you could get the headphone specific effects with a different headphone amplifier.


 
  
 Nope, the Essence STX can not send it's Dolby Headphone surround sound thru the RCA outputs.
 If you were using a third party software like Razor, which would process the headphone surround sound, before the audio is sent to the sound card, then maybe you could route that audio out the RCA jacks.


----------



## mindbomb

okay, thanks. Also, in terms of voltages, what is the difference between the different gain settings? High gain is 7v rms I presume, but what are the others?
  
 edit - it's .9v, 3.5v, and 7v according to the stereophile review.


----------



## bcschmerker4

brokentoaster said:


> Guys, I really need some help, I think I fried my xonar stx.
> 
> tl;dr plugged 4 pin into pci/cpu instead of sata
> 
> ...


 
  
  


ediblestereos said:


> You're card is dead most likely.
> 
> The STX draws both 12v and 5v from the molex connector. You connected your molex connector to a header for PCI-E video cards, they ONLY output 12v.
> 
> ...


 
 Concerning power supplies, when I corrected my Asus® CM1630-06 for a no-SATA-3.3VDC issue (the stock 300W LiteOn® was mis-built), I went with an Antec® TruePower® New™ 750 Blue™, one of the smartest designs in its capacity class.  This semi-modular packs four permanent harnesses:  One 20+4-pin ATX motherboard harness, one 4+4-pin CPU-power harness, and two 6+2-pin PCIe auxiliary video power harnesses (each with its own +12VDC rail!).  Additionally, color-coded 2x4-pin jacks are on the body for connecting additional harnesses, e.g. a quad SATA power harness for hard drives and/or SSD's, at need.  The XONAR® audio cards take a 4-pin Molex® harness wired consistently with disquette and tape transports and pre-SATA hard and optical drives:  One +5VDC and one +12VDC pins, plus two grounds.
  
 As of November 2014, the closest model to the discontinued TPN-750 in production is the Antec® High Current Pro™ 1000 Platinum™, which has 30maxA load capacity for each of its four +12VDC rails and a combined +3.3/+5VDC rating of 130W.


----------



## grinny

-


----------



## cladisch

> How bad does it look?
> http://imgur.com/a/997BS


 
  
 All the magic smoke got let out of that chip.
  
 Good news: you get to buy yourself a christmas present, a shiny new sound card!


----------



## grinny

-


----------



## bcschmerker4

grinny said:


> How bad does it look?
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/997BS
> 
> P.S: First photo is mine, second is what it should look like.


 







  Oye!  Ye lost Integrated Circuit U35 ("EZ=AJ / 11K"; may be a Texas Instruments® TPS63700 DC-DC Converter used to generate the -Vss for the headphone and buffer amplifiers and I-V op amps).  Additionally, some of the traces going to the fried IC are also damaged; suspect thermal damage to traces betwixt the circuit-board layers resulting in multiple open circuits that cannot be reached.  Better off getting a replacement card (e.g., the Asus® XONAR® STX II, which packs expansion provisions for an H6 daughtercard) than attempting to repair this ruined STX.


----------



## grinny

-


----------



## vvilliamm

I finally got everything! Thanks PurpleAngel you've been extremely helpful
 $100 dollar sound card - Asus xonar essence stx
 $50 dollar op-amp x3 chips - LME49990
 $170 headphones - hd 598
 $54 antlion mod mic
 $20 dollar ear muff -Brainwavz HM5 Velor Memory Foam Replacements Earpads 
  
 Question now:
  
 I tried both Normal and high gain settings and it does seem like the 64>300 ohms sound a bit better. Any one have similar experiences with that?
  
 When i have it as normal gain <64ohms only when im at 100 volume things sound good. When i set it to high gain 64-300 ohms i have to set the volume to 50%.
 Will using the setting high gain 64-300 ohms fk up my headphones if i leave it at that settings? Only if I have it max at 100% volume on high gain 64-300ohms right? because it will be powering my headphones at 300ohms?


----------



## PurpleAngel

vvilliamm said:


> I finally got everything! Thanks PurpleAngel you've been extremely helpful
> $100 dollar sound card - Asus Xonar Essence STX.
> $50 dollar op-amp x3 chips - LME49990
> $170 headphones - hd 598
> ...


 
  
 From my understanding, the higher gain settings just starts off the voltage at a higher setting.
 So for a given volume level, all three gain setting would be feeding the same amount of voltage, for the same volume level.
 The 50-Ohm Senn HD5XX series are very easy to drive, but also seem to improve with more voltage.
  
 Ohms is impedance, not power (voltage, current, watts, etc)
 The higher the Ohms (impedance), the more power it takes to send a signal.
 One school of though is the more voltage is used, the better the control over the diaphragm (speaker).
 I guess impedance helps tam the signal?
  
 I say just to use the 64-300 gain setting.


----------



## vvilliamm

thanks! for your explanation things sound much better with 64-300 settings


----------



## mimart7

I'm looking for recommendations for opamps for this card.  I'm currently using pwered studio monitors KRK Rokit 5's, and using V Moda M-80s.  My music tastes are varied, but I generally listen to classic rock, blues, bossa noa, some metal.  Any ideas would be appreciated.


----------



## xeizo

mimart7 said:


> I'm looking for recommendations for opamps for this card.  I'm currently using pwered studio monitors KRK Rokit 5's, and using V Moda M-80s.  My music tastes are varied, but I generally listen to classic rock, blues, bossa noa, some metal.  Any ideas would be appreciated.


 
  
 I ended up with a cheap modification I'm happy with, it made the RCA:s sound a little more exciting. On an Essence ST it is(PCI), which has the jitter-reducing circuit missing on the STX(STXII has a better clock-chip instead).
  
 I changed the I/V from 2xJRC2114DD, which is standard, to 2xLM4562NA which results in very good resolution and troublefree sound on the HP-out. LM4562NA has much higher specs than the 2114DD and that seems to work out nice on th I/V-stage. Also, LM4562NA are not very expensive.
  
 After that I removed the standard 1x LM4562NA from the RCA-buffer and replaced it with one of the leftover 2114DD:s from the I/V. The 2114DD does a much better job on the buffer imho as it is more "musical" and full sounding in that position. The LM4562NA sounds sort of sterile, dry and a little lifeless - while reasonably correct.
  
 It can be that it is de facto better to have a little lower specced OP on the buffer-position, as that position also functions as an lowpass-filter and too good specs may render the actual intended filtering worse. On the HP-out so does the HP-amp chip do the lowpass filtering instead, which means the LM4562NA:s or better does fine in that position(I/V).
  
 Also, 2114DD is very proven as an output buffer chip for digital audio on merits of it's sound rather than it's specs, it is used on some vintage high-end CD-players in the same position. 2114DD is a development of the NE5532 which is a super standard chip but very proven and appreciated, 2114DD is sort of a NE5532 on steroids.
  
 Anyway, this simple swapping of positions, at low cost, made my card sound considerably more nice and lifelike on both outputs.


----------



## bcschmerker4

xeizo said:


> I ended up with a cheap modification I'm happy with, it made the RCA:s sound a little more exciting. On an Essence ST it is(PCI), which has the jitter-reducing circuit missing on the STX(STXII has a better clock-chip instead).
> 
> I changed the I/V from 2xJRC2114DD, which is standard, to 2xLM4562NA which results in very good resolution and troublefree sound on the HP-out. LM4562NA has much higher specs than the 2114DD and that seems to work out nice on th I/V-stage. Also, LM4562NA are not very expensive.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for a budget-friendly approach that apparently works; I might test it out on my own STX, should I land a quartet of NSC/TI LME-49720NA's or LME-49860NA's (with four JRC-2114D's, I've more than enough for the experiment).


----------



## paulguru

Anyone know the specific of amplification of this card ? 
  
 The STX II around 32ohm how many mW can give ? 
 Creative ZXR give 80mW to 32ohm for example.


----------



## xeizo

paulguru said:


> Anyone know the specific of amplification of this card ?
> 
> The STX II around 32ohm how many mW can give ?
> Creative ZXR give 80mW to 32ohm for example.


 
  
 Those cards has the same HP-amp chip, I'm sure that if they differ at all it wont be by much.


----------



## PurpleAngel

paulguru said:


> Anyone know the specific of amplification of this card ?
> 
> The STX II around 32ohm how many mW can give ?
> Creative ZXR give 80mW to 32ohm for example.


 
  
 The Asus STX and ST and STX II and SB-ZxR all use the same TI 6120A2 headphone amplifier chip.
 So I doubt much of a difference between them.


----------



## PredCaliber

Hello everyone,
  
 Good to see that the Xonar STX still being used in 2015! 
 I bought the Xonar STX last month together with my new pair of HD 650's and I love the combo so far!     
  
 The only thing that bothered me was that when I read some of the topics here about the HD650 + Xonar STX combo, that the Xonar STX did not do the HD 650 enough justice because it could not produce the nice 'mids' for the HD650.
 For that I feared that I mabey picked the wrong audio solution for my HD 650.  (A dedicated amp/dac would probably be better for the HD650. .?)
  
 Unfortunatley I can't return the Xonar STX anymore, but I was wondering if it is still possible to connect a dedicated AMP to my Xonar STX? (perhaps via the line-in port)  Id rather not replace any OP amps on the card itself, unless it makes a really big difference.  But from 
  
 In example, would it be possible to connect a Little Dot Mk3 on my Xonar STX its line in, and bypass the internal amp, but still keeping the benefits from the Xonar STX?   or  is it just better to replace the entire Xonar STX with a dedicated amp like the Mk3?
  
 Or does anyone have any other advice what to use instead or in combi with the HD 650?   (please note its a 300 ohm headphone)
  
 Thx in advance!


----------



## BigTerminator

If you love the combo then do not worry. I compared my Xonar Essence ST to a V90 DAC and Yulong A800 amp for DT990's and my speakers. Both the headphones and speakers sounded so close that whatever gains there was was not worth the money. Change the op amps if you want to color the sound for your tastes. Make sure your power supply has low ripple as well.


----------



## PurpleAngel

predcaliber said:


> Good to see that the Xonar STX still being used in 2015!
> I bought the Xonar STX last month together with my new pair of HD 650's and I love the combo so far!
> The only thing that bothered me was that when I read some of the topics here about the HD650 + Xonar STX combo, that the Xonar STX did not do the HD 650 enough justice because it could not produce the nice 'mids' for the HD650.
> For that I feared that I maybe picked the wrong audio solution for my HD 650.  (A dedicated amp/dac would probably be better for the HD650. .?)
> ...


 
  
 You can connect just about any external headphone amplifier to the line-output (RCAs) on the STX.
 The STX can not send it's Dolby Headphone surround sound thru the RCA jacks, but if this setup is mostly for music, then no problems there.
  
 Hopefully you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS.
 As sometimes on-board causes issues with an add-on sound card.


----------



## autonugz420

I grabbed me the stx to go with my sennheiser g4me zero's and been really happy with sound quality but can't seem to get my mic (on headset) to work, i have the mic cord plugged into the line in/ mic in port on the back of the card but cant get it to work with any program, the mic works with the motherboard audio so i must be missing something in the asus settings. if you need any info let me know
  
 i7 3770k
 gigabyte* GA-Z77X-UD5H*
*16gb ram*
 windows 8.1 64bit


----------



## shamowfski

Just got the Xonar STX earlier this week.  Paired with DT990's. Happy so far but had some real issues getting everything working.
  
 Like an idiot I didn't notice that you had to 'set' the output you wanted to use.  I was uninstalling drivers, trying differing power, everything until I decided to try the rca outputs.  Then i figured it out...


----------



## PurpleAngel

autonugz420 said:


> I grabbed me the stx to go with my sennheiser g4me zero's and been really happy with sound quality but can't seem to get my mic (on headset) to work, i have the mic cord plugged into the line in/ mic in port on the back of the card but cant get it to work with any program, the mic works with the motherboard audio so i must be missing something in the Asus settings. if you need any info let me know
> 
> i7 3770k
> gigabyte* GA-Z77X-UD5H*
> ...


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?
 Sometimes active on-board audio has a negative effect on the add-on sound card.
  
 Might also try deleting the Asus software and use the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## PurpleAngel

shamowfski said:


> Just got the Xonar STX earlier this week.  Paired with DT990's. Happy so far but had some real issues getting everything working.
> 
> Like an idiot I didn't notice that you had to 'set' the output you wanted to use.  I was uninstalling drivers, trying differing power, everything until I decided to try the rca outputs.  Then i figured it out...


 
  
 Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?


----------



## rvcjew

autonugz420 said:


> I grabbed me the stx to go with my sennheiser g4me zero's and been really happy with sound quality but can't seem to get my mic (on headset) to work, i have the mic cord plugged into the line in/ mic in port on the back of the card but cant get it to work with any program, the mic works with the motherboard audio so i must be missing something in the asus settings. if you need any info let me know
> 
> i7 3770k
> gigabyte* GA-Z77X-UD5H*
> ...


 
 Do you see it in the recording section of your sound settings?


----------



## shamowfski

purpleangel said:


> Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?


 
 Not yet.  Good call.
  
 It seems to be working fine, but will slightly decrease overhead.


----------



## nimo

Just picked up the Essence STX.

 Listening with Sony MDR-7506: Stock Opamps
 Top-end sounds a little harsh.
 Mid-range is ok; more body be nice perhaps.
 Bass-notes are a tad boomy; looking for tighter kicks.
  
 After almost 3 hours of going through this thread:
 Gonna try the 2x LME49720 on the I/V section; general consensus here that these are good upgrades.

Need thoughts on the Buffer section.
 OPA2107 - used in Little Dot 1+ previously; good but most costly after the OPA627
 OPA2134 - never used.
 LM6172 - never used.
  
 The OPA627 is off the list, too costly. Prefer not to open up my PC case too many times if I can help it.
 Appreciate if anyone has used the above config to chip in. I tend to thread on the darker side of things.
 Quick equipment list below if it helps.

 Headphones:
 SONY MDR-7506 (vinyl-rips)
 PHILIPS SHP-9500 (general listening)

 Pre-amp: NAD C162
 Power-amp: ARCAM Delta 290P
 CD-Player: NAD C542
 Tuner: NAD C422
 Speakers: VIFA 'PL' drivers; custom 2-way bookshelf/floorstanders, 3-way floorstanders


----------



## PurpleAngel

nimo said:


> Just picked up the Essence STX.
> Listening with Sony MDR-7506: Stock Opamps
> Top-end sounds a little harsh.
> Mid-range is ok; more body be nice perhaps.
> ...


 
  
 The stock LM4542 op-amp in the buffer is a relabeled LME49720 (just is case you did not know).


----------



## wanted110

After reading >200 pages on the Essence One thread and and more pages on the AOP one, i mixed that with what i have already tested. The AOP that are a must-try : 
 - LME49720HA or LME49710HA x2, not NA nor MA, metal can TO-99 version
 - AD797BR (Tricky to use)
 - LT1363CS8 
 - Muses01 & 02
  
 Haven't tested them all but it is planned.
 LME49720HA sound very good and detailled, with a superb sound stage, but become fatiguing on long listening.
 THe first time i listenned to AD797AR i was " Wow ", but i don't know why exactly. Can't wait to test the higher grade "BR".


----------



## nimo

purpleangel said:


> The stock LM4542 op-amp in the buffer is a relabeled LME49720 (just is case you did not know).


 
 Yup, thanks!


----------



## nimo

Ok, down to either the OPA2107 or OPA2111 for the buffer.

Thoughts anyone?


----------



## bcschmerker4

nimo said:


> Just picked up the Essence STX....
> 
> Need thoughts on the Buffer section.
> OPA2107 - used in Little Dot 1+ previously; good but most costly after the OPA627
> ...


 
 Concerning the integrated circuits listed, the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172N is a dual video amplifier that I have under consideration for the I-V, but not the buffer due to lack of stability certification for a 600Ω load.  The LM4562N is a known decent buffer; the LME49720NA and LME49860NA are directly comparable.


----------



## nimo

bcschmerker4 said:


> Concerning the integrated circuits listed, the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172N is a dual video amplifier that I have under consideration for the I-V, but not the buffer due to lack of stability certification for a 600Ω load.  The LM4562N is a known decent buffer; the LME49720NA and LME49860NA are directly comparable.


 
 Thanks! Took a look at the LME49860NA which I totally missed only from your input.

 Just ordered from Element14 (farnell):
 2x LME49860NA for I/V
 1x OPA2107AP for Buffer
 1x LM6172IN/NOPB for Buffer
  
 The LME49860NA is twice the price compared to the LM4562NA/LME49720NA but in reality just a little more so figured wth.
 The OPA2107AP for the Buffer is rather expensive but I found close enough to the OPA627 so that's that.
 The LM6172IN/NOPB just to 'try'; not sure if the 600ohm bit is relevant since it's output thru RCA - maybe I missed something?


----------



## bcschmerker4

bcschmerker4 said:


> Concerning the integrated circuits listed, the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172N is a dual video amplifier that I have under consideration for the I-V, but not the buffer due to lack of stability certification for a 600Ω load.  The LM4562N is a known decent buffer; the LME49720NA and LME49860NA are directly comparable.


 
  
  


nimo said:


> Thanks! Took a look at the LME49860NA which I totally missed only from your input.
> 
> Just ordered from Element14 (farnell):
> 2x LME49860NA for I/V
> ...


 
 600Ω is the standard characteristic impedance for unbalanced line-level devices (-10dBV) common to home audio installations.  As a video amplifier, the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172IN may be built for 75Ω loads common to component and composite video but is untested at 600Ω.


----------



## Vopidu

Best upgrade for STX II?


----------



## wanted110

The stock muses 8920 look to be good, so i don't know if try some other amp will improve the sound quality to you. But, if you want to test some good amp, start with AD797BR (take a goodlook at the datasheet, there are capacitors to add, between 2-6 and 6-8 if i remember).


----------



## Monitox

Hello everyone,
  
  
 It is possible that this has been discussed already, but in over 300 pages is hard to find.
 If it has been discussed, I apologize, anyway, my question: to an Xonar Essence STX, which is the best op-amp for buffer, if I want to keep those two JRCs that came with the sound card from the factory. ? I just want to change my present buffer, with another, more efficient.
  
 Thx.


----------



## PurpleAngel

monitox said:


> It is possible that this has been discussed already, but in over 300 pages is hard to find.
> If it has been discussed, I apologize, anyway, my question: to an Xonar Essence STX, which is the best op-amp for buffer, if I want to keep those two JRCs that came with the sound card from the factory. ? I just want to change my present buffer, with another, more efficient.


 
  
 The LM4562 op-amp used the buffer slot on the Essence STX is a relabeled LME49720 op-amp, which I guess is more liked then the JRC2114 op-amps in the two I/V slots.
 A lot of people just replace the two JRC2114s with two LME49720 op-amps, to improve audio quality.
 With the Essence STX, only the two I/V slot are for the headphone output, for line-output (RCAs) all three op-amps are used.


----------



## Monitox

The problem is that I believe that I have problems with the buffer OP-AMP and not with the JRCs. The sound in my speakers, (Corsair SP2500), is somehow gutural, if I can say this. In headphone instead, the sound  is best of the best, clear like mountain water, and I know that for headphones the sound not pass through the buffer. This mean that if in my speakers the sound is not clear, and in headphones is, only the buffer can be guilty.
  
 Therefore I asked which OP-AMP is best for buffer, and to work very well with the default JRCs?
  
 Excuses for my poor english, it's because I'm not a native english speaker.


----------



## PurpleAngel

monitox said:


> The problem is that I believe that I have problems with the buffer OP-AMP and not with the JRCs. The sound in my speakers, (Corsair SP2500), is somehow gutural, if I can say this. In headphone instead, the sound  is best of the best, clear like mountain water, and I know that for headphones the sound not pass through the buffer. This mean that if in my speakers the sound is not clear, and in headphones is, only the buffer can be guilty.
> 
> Therefore I asked which OP-AMP is best for buffer, and to work very well with the default JRCs?
> 
> Excuse for my poor english, it's because I'm not a native english speaker.


 
  
 I'm just having a hard time believing it's the design of the LM4652 op-amp that is causes the "gutural" issue.
 Sometimes the op-amps are not full seated in their slots, so take off the EMI cover and careful press down on the op-amps to make sure they are fully seated.
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before installing the STX and the Asus software?
 Try deleting the Asus drivers and installed the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 Any chance there is a issue with the Corsair SP2500?
 Have you tried plugging the Corsair SP2500 into anything else besides the STX?
  
 Maybe try replacing the RCA to RCA cable for connecting the Essence STX to the SP2500?
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021814&p_id=2864&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Monitox

- I didn't looked in the sound card, to see if some components are not in their place properly, but I'll take a look.
 - Yes I disabled on-board audio, and installed the modded driver UNi Xonar Driver
 - Don't know if the problem is with my Corsair, I put signal from my smartphone, and it sounds well, no more "guttural" sounds, wich, between us, is not one too significantly, it's just a bit, a bit but enough annoying.
 - The RCA cable is the original which came with the speakers, I doubt, somehow, to be from he.
  
 What's curious is the fact that I have the sound card and the Corsair SP2500 for a year, and this phenomenon appeared by two or three months, till then everything was ok with the sound: clear in speakers, clear in headphones.


----------



## lucianpescaru

monitox said:


> The problem is that I believe that I have problems with the buffer OP-AMP and not with the JRCs. The sound in my speakers, (Corsair SP2500), is somehow gutural, if I can say this. In headphone instead, the sound  is best of the best, clear like mountain water, and I know that for headphones the sound not pass through the buffer. This mean that if in my speakers the sound is not clear, and in headphones is, only the buffer can be guilty.
> 
> Therefore I asked which OP-AMP is best for buffer, and to work very well with the default JRCs?


 
 Connect the headphones to the RCA socket using the supplied RCA to 3.5mm cable and see if the sound is still distorted.


----------



## Monitox

Same sound unclear as on the speakers. If someone could tell me which thinks is the best OP-AMP for buffer, and also to work very well with the default JRC's, I'd appreciate.


----------



## lucianpescaru

I have OPA2107 for the hole bunch eg IV and buffer. Sounds a bit bright but it's clearer than the stock config and I'm happy with the sound.


----------



## Monitox

Someone told me, to put for buffer: OPA2132P, and also to buy an LM4562NA, because is the same with the one I have now for buffer.
 And, he said me to do two tests:
  
 1 - OPA2132P buffer + original JRC's I/V
 2 - OPA2132P buffer + 2xLM4562's I/V (the new one and the original one, that was for buffer)
  
 And to see in which one of these two combinations, sounds better.


----------



## lucianpescaru

monitox said:


> Someone told me, to put for buffer: OPA2132P, and also to buy an LM4562NA, because is the same with the one I have now for buffer.
> And, he said me to do two tests:
> 
> 1 - OPA2132P buffer + original JRC's I/V
> ...


 
 Sounds cool.


----------



## Hellhog

Some quick questions regarding this sound card if anyone would like to help me out.
  
 I currently use instead of my laptop's terrible onboard audio a FiiO E17 to drive my Sennheiser PC 350 headset and a FiiO L7 dock connected to the E17 to line out to my powered 2.0 speaker system as well as a cheap audio dongle to get better mic input clarity with less of the noise.
  
 I'm thinking of a PC build and this has been high on my list of items to include for my current headset and speakers above. How exactly does switching between the R/L outputs and the Headphone output work? Do both constantly receive a signal or do you have to set it in windows or the software to enable one and disable the other. Also is the R/L RCA outputs line out or powered? I'm not exactly keen on plugging in my 2.0 powered speaker system into anything other than line level.
  
 How is the microphone input quality? Is it clear sounding and true? Noisy at all? Or would I be better off getting a separate solution for microphone use (I've had my eye on an Audio Technica AT2020 but would prefer to use my headset if it is good enough).
  
 Lastly, how do the front panel connections work? About 99% chance I'd never use this part but are they amplified as well for high impedance headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

hellhog said:


> Some quick questions regarding this sound card if anyone would like to help me out.
> I currently use instead of my laptop's terrible on-board audio a FiiO E17 to drive my Sennheiser PC 350 headset and a FiiO L7 dock connected to the E17 to line out to my powered 2.0 speaker system as well as a cheap audio dongle to get better mic input clarity with less of the noise.
> I'm thinking of a PC build and this has been high on my list of items to include for my current headset and speakers above. How exactly does switching between the R/L outputs and the Headphone output work? Do both constantly receive a signal or do you have to set it in windows or the software to enable one and disable the other. Also is the R/L RCA outputs line out or powered? I'm not exactly keen on plugging in my 2.0 powered speaker system into anything other than line level.
> How is the microphone input quality? Is it clear sounding and true? Noisy at all? Or would I be better off getting a separate solution for microphone use (I've had my eye on an Audio Technica AT2020 but would prefer to use my headset if it is good enough).
> Lastly, how do the front panel connections work? About 99% chance I'd never use this part but are they amplified as well for high impedance headphones?


 
  
 When you talk about the "R/L RCA outputs", what are these RCA outputs connected to?
 I would assume you would connect the E17 to the optical port on the new PC (just like the laptop?).
 Keeping everything the same as you had on the laptop.
 The front panel headphone jack may or may not be amplified (for headphones), depends on the motherboard or whatever internal add-on card you might use.


----------



## lucianpescaru

bcschmerker4 said:


> As a video amplifier, the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LM6172IN may be built for 75Ω loads common to component and composite video but is untested at 600Ω.


 
  
 LM6172 sounds like crap compared to the originals and OPA2107 I have now in the IV position.


----------



## Monitox

Well, I stopped at the configuration with  OPA2132PA, for buffer + 2x JRC2114D (the original ones) for I/V.
 For my 2.1 Corsair system, (and my taste, of course), sounds really great.
 Just changed the buffer.


----------



## klaxian

What is the consensus regarding replacing the JRC2114 in the original STX with the MUSES 8920 that the STX II uses?  Or with the MUSES01/02?  Is it a worthwhile upgrade?  How do the MUSES sound compared to the stock op-amps?
  
 I've been generally happy with my original Xonar STX during the year I've owned it.  However, I think it's holding back my Sennheiser HD 700.  I'd prefer to stay with the Xonar because I enjoy the Dolby Headphone capability for surround emulation in games.  However, I'd like to get as much as I can from the card.  I've searched the forums and Google, but I can't find any detail to answer my question.  There were a few posts from members reporting good results replacing their original op-amps, but they were vague.
  
 I'm new to the forum and still learning.  I appreciate your help!


----------



## xPakrikx

Hello
  
 I have default I/V and buffer oamps on my STX , i want upgrade oamps for my new eve audio sc205/DT990 , witch combination of oamps is best under 50$ , i prefer wide soundstage and dynamic , music style : jazz , metal , djent ...
  
 Thanks


----------



## Monitox

Well, after many searches, and some attempts, I stopped on an excellent configuration for me with a sound balanced on all three lines: low, medium and high. A sound very pleasant, warm with perfect accuracy and an SNR of 122 dB.
 And all these, obtained with 3x OPA2132PA (buffer + I/V)


----------



## bcschmerker4

In which case, the Brown-Burr® OPA2132PA is a candidate for the I-V in my Asus® CM1630-06 as upgraded.  Texas Instruments has dual amplifiers in the JEDEC 8-pin DIP for most tastes, and the aftermarket has adapters for TI's surface-mount singles such as the National Semiconductor® LME49990MA.  Hopefully I can get me a USB XONAR® product for auditioning headphones at the 18 July 2015 meet....


----------



## Monitox

I want to mention that I have heard many people saying that the real music it's listening without equalizer, or another mode of sound correction . Personally I prefer to listen the music using the equalizer, where I like to dose the sound how I wish, meaning the high line, low or medium.
 Therefore, it could be possible that the  OPA2132PA triplet, to not ring as well defined, on all three lines: low, medium and high, without the equalizer intervention.


----------



## kudo

What is current price for this soundcard? I see most stores here have it for 180 euros which is a lot if I think back few years I think it was around 100-150, as I remember I had long nights thinking whether to get this or Bravura, turned out my choice was wrong cause Bravura will have to go when Windows 10 comes.


----------



## Monitox

kudo said:


> What is current price for this soundcard?...


 
 That depends from where you buy it. In my country, for example, it cost around 200-220 euros, from one store to another.


----------



## iwing88

hi i just got my xonar stx and i am about to order some op amp and buffer.
 can some advice me what combination is best for clear and natural sound, good sound stage and good mid. bass not sure worry because my headphone is philips x1 can product good base.
  
 please help 
 thanks


----------



## BigTerminator

You basically described the LME4562, 49720, 49860 family. I would say get the LME49860 as it is the cherry picked version of the group, plus they are still only $3 a pop. Just get 3 of them for the I/V and the buffer. It gives very good clarity and sound stage. Make sure you have a low ripple PSU as well.


----------



## iwing88

cool so LME49860 x 3 is the best setting? i dont mind paying a bit more for it. as long as give good clear natural and good sound stage.
 i am using seasonic 860w platinum. i think should be fine.
  
 thanks for the advice mate.
 cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> cool so LME49860 x 3 is the best setting? i dont mind paying a bit more for it. as long as give good clear natural and good sound stage.
> i am using Seasonic 860w platinum. i think should be fine.
> 
> thanks for the advice mate.
> cheers


 
  
 Maybe get the dual channel LME49860 (DIP-8) for now, it does not cost that much for three.
  
 I spent around $56 for three AD797BR op-amps.
 The AD797BR (SOIC) is a single channeled op-amp, so has to be soldered in pairs to a dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
 So it's around $18 for each dual ADA797BR soldered adapter, $18 X 3 = $56.
  
 The LME49990 (SOIC) is also liked and around $56 for the setup.
  
 Still say to get the LME49860 for now.


----------



## iwing88

ok mate thanks will go for LME49860 x 3 for now.
 later will upgrade later.
  
 btw the AD797BR (SOIC) / LME49990 (SOIC) and LME49860 very big diff?
  
 cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> ok mate thanks will go for LME49860 x 3 for now.
> later will upgrade later.
> btw the AD797BR (SOIC) / LME49990 (SOIC) and LME49860 very big diff?
> cheers


 
  
 Never tried the LME49990
 Hard to remember the different op-amps
 I at first had replaced the stock op-amps with the LME49860, then swapping them out for the AD797BR and I replaced my Essence STX with a NFB-15.32 external DAC/amp about 18 months ago.
 So can't really remember much about the different op-amps.


----------



## iwing88

cool thanks.
  
 BTW those external DAC is much better if compare to xonar stx?
 thinking of upgrading next year not sure which one to get.
 my country is very limited DAC brand.
  
 Fiio, ibasso, schiit, bravo cannot remember others.
  
 cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> cool thanks.
> BTW those external DAC is much better if compare to Xonar STX?
> thinking of upgrading next year not sure which one to get.
> my country is very limited DAC brand.
> ...


 
  
 Audio-GD will ship the NFB-15 (later revision of the NFB-15.32) to just about anywhere in the world.
 Your looking at around $315 (including shipping) for the NFB-15
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm
 And you can sell off the Essence STX for some cash to help cover the cost of the NFB-15.
  
 So just get the LME49860 op-amps for now, then save up some cash for later on (next year?) and then get the NFB-15.
  
 What country are you in?


----------



## iwing88

ah ok cool
 i am in malaysia.
 how about you?
  
 cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> Ah ok cool
> I am in Malaysia.
> How about you?


 
  
 San Francisco Bay Area.
 I'm 15 minutes from Silicon Valley


----------



## iwing88

Wow nice. Btw nfb 15 for this price range is the best compare to shiit and aune?


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> Wow nice. Btw nfb 15 for this price range is the best compare to shiit and aune?


 
  
 In my personal opinion I think it is.
 But a Schiit Modi Uber and Schiit Magni 2 Uber is very close.
 But I really like that the NFB-15 comes with dual DAC chips.


----------



## iwing88

hi thanks,
  
 you mean Schiit Modi Uber and Schiit Magni 2 Uber only single DAC?
 what is the different ? 2 and 1.
 i thought it only convert digital signal to analog so one should be enough.
  
 btw how do you connect your NFB-15? using coxial or USB or optic. which connection give the best SQ. optic only max 96khz right?
 thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> hi thanks,
> 
> you mean Schiit Modi Uber and Schiit Magni 2 Uber only single DAC?
> what is the different ? 2 and 1.
> ...


 
  
 If you separate out the signals (right and left channel) you get a higher SNR (Signal/Noise Ratio?) and the higher the better.
 But their are more factors, like the chips that work with the DAC chip(s) that effect audio quality, maybe PCB design, quality of all the parts used, all effect audio quality.
 When I bought my NFB-15.32, Schiit did not have the Modi 2 Uber or Schiit 2 Uber, so Schiit would not have been considered at that time.
 The USB on the Audio-GD is a VIA 32-bit/384K capable interface, which is nice, but sometimes the drivers get a little finicky, but that might be more true in the past (18 months ago) and Audio-GD (or VIA) had lots of time to improve the firmware/drivers.
 I just stick to the optical, as it allows me to still use the features of the sound card (like Headphone surround sound)
 Where as USB bypasses the sound card features, which does not matter for music or watching videos in stereo audio.


----------



## iwing88

ok 
 now i have learned something new thanks.
 does the motherboard optical / coxial will by pass everything and go straight into NFB-15.32 and do all the magic?
 so you don't need sound card anymore. not sure.


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> ok
> now i have learned something new thanks.
> does the motherboard optical / coxial will by pass everything and go straight into NFB-15.32 and do all the magic?
> so you don't need sound card anymore. not sure.


 
  
 The motherboard's optical & coaxial port are integrated into the motherboard's on-board audio.
 So you can use the on-board audio features with the NFB-15 (or NFB-11).
 There is also a setting in Windows (Playback tab) that will have the on-board optical and coaxial ports bypass the sound card features, if you wish.


----------



## iwing88

ok that means i can sell the xonar and use motherboard coaxial / usb / optic direct out to NFB - 15
 can window 8.1 do that? thanks man


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> ok that means i can sell the xonar and use motherboard coaxial / usb / optic direct out to NFB - 15
> can window 8.1 do that? thanks man


 
  
 I was using Windows 8.1 with my NFB-15.32 for a year.
 The NFB-15's USB, optical, coaxial can be hooked up to just about anything, with those ports (Macs, TV, etc)


----------



## iwing88

ahh thanks again.
 so which headphone can pair with the NFB 15? price range 300-400 open back headphone.
 brand that i like beyerdynamic, audio technica, AKG not sure about hifiman but the review are good.
  
 thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

I believe the AKG K7XX is a good value, at $200 (used), it seems to be about equal as the next higher priced AKG (Can't remember which model).
 I the K7XX are being built in China, as normally AKG's higher end headphones are still make in Austria.
 Guess that why the K7XX offers such nice sound, for it's price.


----------



## iwing88

nice AKG K7XX. does it give good bass not too much , detail and smooth sound?
 thanks
  
 i will check it out
 how about Audio-Technica ad2000x?
  
 thanks


----------



## iwing88

hi i am just curious. MUSES01/02 can work in the xonar stx? and how do they sound?
  
thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> nice AKG K7XX. does it give good bass not too much , detail and smooth sound?
> thanks
> i will check it out
> how about Audio-Technica ad2000x?


 
  
 Audio Technica are among my favorite headphones, currently my ATH-W1000X is my preferred headphone.
 The ATH-AD2000X would need very little power, so the amplifier in the NFB-15 might be overkill (but yes the AD2000X would sound very nice plugged into the NFB-15).
 If you got the AD2000X, then you could just use something like the Schiit Fulla ($79) USB/DAC/Amp.


----------



## iwing88

Ok thanks. Does higher ohm light 250 ohm sound better then 90 ohm? I just check the muse price too expensive and not worth getting it.

Not sure about high ohm vs low ohm.


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> Ok thanks. Does higher ohm light 250 ohm sound better then 90 ohm? I just check the muse price too expensive and not worth getting it.
> Not sure about high ohm vs low ohm.


 
  
 I own three 600-Ohm headphones, four 250-Ohm headphones and my preferred headphone is 40-Ohms (W1000X)
 The Denon AH-D2000 was a well liked headphone and it was only 25-Ohms.
 So the Ohms is not really the deciding factor for audio quality.
 But if some company goes to the trouble of making a headphone over 100-Ohms, chances are it's going to be fairly good, over wise no-one would buy it.
 Usually low costing cheapo headphones are around 32-Ohms, something that will work with out the need of a headphone amplifier.
 If you have a A/V or stereo receiver, usually their headphone jack works better with higher Ohm headphones.
 (I like to use my DT990 Premium 600-Ohm, plugged into my Yamaha A/V receiver, for watching Blu-ray movies)
 I think more in the past the better sounding headphones were higher Ohm, worked well with a studio setup and die hard music listeners would be will to spend cash for a tube amplifier.
 But the headphone market today has shifted to smartphone, iPhone, iPod, DAP were low Ohm headphones/IEMs work best.
 So companies invest in technologies to improve low Ohm headphones.


----------



## iwing88

ahh cool learn something again thanks.
 i have an old yamaha  v1200 av receiver sitting around. 
 i try to hock it with my pc via toslink. when i play the music file i cannot hear anything from my headphone.
 i need to turn the volume to the max and i can only hear very very low voice.
 my headphone is 30 ohm. not sure why? may by the av receiver not good enough to power the headphone?
  
 thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> ahh cool learn something again thanks.
> i have an old yamaha  v1200 av receiver sitting around.
> i try to hock it with my pc via toslink. when i play the music file i cannot hear anything from my headphone.
> i need to turn the volume to the max and i can only hear very very low voice.
> my headphone is 30 ohm. not sure why? may by the av receiver not good enough to power the headphone?


 
  
 The Yamaha AV1200's headphone jack outputs way more power then those 30-Ohm headphones would every need, the problem is how the power is delivered.
 For best damping and control of the headphone diaphragm, you want the headphones to have at least 8 to 10 times the impedance (Ohms) of the source.
 So for 30-Ohm headphones, you would want to use a source jack with an impedance of around 4-Ohms or less.
 If you plug 30-Ohm headphones into a source that is 15-Ohms, it would still sound decent, maybe get slightly bloated (louder, less detailed) bass.
 The Essence STX's headphone jack has an output impedance of 10-Ohms, the NFB-15 2-Ohms.
 Chances are the Yamaha's headphone jack could roughly have an output impedance of 75-Ohms to 300-Ohms.
 So headphones in the 250-Ohm to 600-Ohm range would be better for use with your Yamaha.


----------



## iwing88

oh ok that is why it sound very very soft. i mean whisper sound.
  
 i always have this question. an avr vs NFB-15
 i saw this ad selling pioneer vsx 323 k for USD 180 (used)
 and NFB-15 USD 280 (new)
  
 which one sound better? of course the avr has all the feature and so on.
 or both sound the same.
  
 cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

iwing88 said:


> oh ok that is why it sound very very soft. i mean whisper sound.
> i always have this question. an avr vs NFB-15
> i saw this ad selling pioneer vsx 323 k for USD 180 (used)
> and NFB-15 USD 280 (new)
> ...


 
  
 For headphones.
 The NFB-15s dual DAC chips and low output impedance headphone amplifier should make headphones sound better.


----------



## iwing88

Ok nfb 15


----------



## iwing88

hi how about hifiman 400 or 400i have you try it how do they sound like?
  
 thanks


----------



## hankypanky2

purpleangel said:


> For headphones.
> The NFB-15s dual DAC chips and low output impedance headphone amplifier should make headphones sound better.


 
Hello, I want to know how many channels should I set Xonar to... I have connected Bose Soundlink Mini speaker to Xonar. 
  
Also does Xonar not play without a headphone? I want to listen to my laptop speakers but when Xonar is in, I don't hear anything unless I plug in to the Xonar
  
 I set the Digital Output as Xonar X3 and made it the default device, and then I tried seeing if sound played with Speakers as the default communication device on and then another time with it disabled.. Still no sound on laptop speakers. I'm on a HP laptop with Beats installed.
  
 Please help me out with this.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hankypanky2 said:


> Hello, I want to know how many channels should I set Xonar to... I have connected Bose Sound link Mini speaker to Xonar.
> Also does Xonar not play without a headphone? I want to listen to my laptop speakers but when Xonar is in, I don't hear anything unless I plug in to the Xonar
> I set the Digital Output as Xonar X3 and made it the default device, and then I tried seeing if sound played with Speakers as the default communication device on and then another time with it disabled.. Still no sound on laptop speakers. I'm on a HP laptop with Beats installed.
> Please help me out with this.


 
  
 Xonar X3? assuming you mean Xonar U3, the $40 Xonar USB sound card?
 And you using a 3.5mm (1/8") plug to 3.5mm plug cable to connect the U3 to the Bose?
 The Xonar U3 should have automatically become the default audio device, when you plugged it into the computer (and installed the Asus software).
 The Xonar U3 control panel should have the output set to "Speaker"
 and as I'm assuming this setup is for music, the Xonar control panel's Audio channel should be set to "2-channels".
 Should not need to have the "digital output" enabled (leave disabled).


----------



## hankypanky2

purpleangel said:


> Xonar X3? assuming you mean Xonar U3, the $40 Xonar USB sound card?
> And you using a 3.5mm (1/8") plug to 3.5mm plug cable to connect the U3 to the Bose?
> The Xonar U3 should have automatically become the default audio device, when you plugged it into the computer (and installed the Asus software).
> The Xonar U3 control panel should have the output set to "Speaker"
> ...


 
  It's the U3 yes. Can I not play the music from the U3 playing on my Bose, which then the Bose can be heard on my laptop speakers?


----------



## hankypanky2

purpleangel said:


> Xonar X3? assuming you mean Xonar U3, the $40 Xonar USB sound card?
> And you using a 3.5mm (1/8") plug to 3.5mm plug cable to connect the U3 to the Bose?
> The Xonar U3 should have automatically become the default audio device, when you plugged it into the computer (and installed the Asus software).
> The Xonar U3 control panel should have the output set to "Speaker"
> ...


 
 When playing my Xonar U3 through my Bose Soundlink Mini, what should my 'SPDIF' settings be? Unticked/Ticked PCM
  
 Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

hankypanky2 said:


> When playing my Xonar U3 through my Bose Sound link Mini, what should my 'S/PDIF' settings be? Unticked/Ticked PCM
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Assuming your connecting the U3 to the Bose using an analog cable (and not optical), leave the S/PDIF unchecked (unticked).


----------



## iwing88

hi has anyone try stx rca out to headphone amp? like schiit asgard?
  
 thanks


----------



## Natslx

iwing88 said:


> hi has anyone try stx rca out to headphone amp? like schiit asgard?
> 
> thanks


 
 Using STX RCA out to my Asgard 2, works fine.


----------



## iwing88

cool thanks.
 anyone try stx with Lafigaro 339 Amplifier? how does it sound like compare to asgard 2?
  
thanks


----------



## ChosenUno

It's been a while since I used my essence. Does anyone still have the problem where it suddenly screeches very loudly? I had to stop using it for fear of damaging my stuff as well as myself, but it's been over a year so I'm hoping there might have been progress on that front.


----------



## jincuteguy

Isn't the SoundBlaster ZxR or X7 is better than the Asus Xonar Essence STX?


----------



## PurpleAngel

jincuteguy said:


> Isn't the Sound Blaster ZxR or X7 is better than the Asus Xonar Essence STX?


 
  
 All three use DAC chips from the PCM179X series, so audio quality should be around the same.
 All the use the same TI 6102A2 headphone amplifier chip.


----------



## jincuteguy

purpleangel said:


> All three use DAC chips from the PCM179X series, so audio quality should be around the same.
> All the use the same TI 6102A2 headphone amplifier chip.


 
 Oh I see, thx for the headup.  The X7 is the newest and latest from Creative, but to my surprise they still use the same DAC quality as like 5years ago since the STX and ZxR came out around that time ago.


----------



## hutt132

I noticed that the Dolby Digital Live setting for SPDIF Out has a lot of distortion when I'm using coaxial to my receiver. I set it to PCM and it was crystal clear.
  
 Does the PCM setting support 5.1?


----------



## tkoreaper

Can anyone recommend a good opamp combination for DT990 Pro 250 OHM? Money isn't an issue. Currently running 2x*LME49720 *with stock buffer. I've always used the headphone out so the buffer never mattered, but now that I've switched the sound is very displeasing... It lost a lot of bass. I also just upgraded the opamp in my LD+1 to a MUSES 02 so that may have added to the loss in bass.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> Can anyone recommend a good opamp combination for DT990 Pro 250 OHM? Money isn't an issue. Currently running 2x*LME49720 *with stock buffer. I've always used the headphone out so the buffer never mattered, but now that I've switched the sound is very displeasing... It lost a lot of bass. I also just upgraded the opamp in my LD+1 to a MUSES 02 so that may have added to the loss in bass.


 
 AD8066AR has excellent bass, although I doubt it will make up enough bass if your lacking... http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-AD8066AR-SOIC-TO-DIP-High-Performance-145-MHz-FastFET-Op-Am-/120885159736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c25512738
  
 I use it in the buffer, along with some OPA627BM's in the I/V. I find this combination is very balanced/neutral, with great overall sound in all areas of the spectrum.


----------



## tkoreaper

xxicrimsonixx said:


> AD8066AR has excellent bass, although I doubt it will make up enough bass if your lacking... http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1x-AD8066AR-SOIC-TO-DIP-High-Performance-145-MHz-FastFET-Op-Am-/120885159736?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c25512738
> 
> I use it in the buffer, along with some OPA627BM's in the I/V. I find this combination is very balanced/neutral, with great overall sound in all areas of the spectrum.


 
 Any experience using 2x LME49720NA + LM6172IN?


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> Any experience using 2x LME49720NA + LM6172IN?




I have experience with the LME49720NA, but not the other one. They are warm, so if your lacking in bass, it should help.


----------



## tkoreaper

xxicrimsonixx said:


> I have experience with the LME49720NA, but not the other one. They are warm, so if your lacking in bass, it should help.


 
 Gonna take your word for it and try your setup... This $150 better be worth it lol.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> Gonna take your word for it and try your setup... This $150 better be worth it lol.




Which setup witless you be using?


----------



## tkoreaper

xxicrimsonixx said:


> Which setup witless you be using?


The one you first mentioned to me.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> The one you first mentioned to me.


 
 Your going to need some risers, because the OPA627BMs require 2 per channel as they are single channel, and they won't fit otherwise. Also, you might need to use some electrical tape to insolate incase there is some touching. If you want, I can take a picture of my setup later.
  
 I use it with a K702/65, and I find that it complements the headphones wonderfully.


----------



## tkoreaper

xxicrimsonixx said:


> Your going to need some risers, because the OPA627BMs require 2 per channel as they are single channel, and they won't fit otherwise. Also, you might need to use some electrical tape to insolate incase there is some touching. If you want, I can take a picture of my setup later.
> 
> I use it with a K702/65, and I find that it complements the headphones wonderfully.


 
 That would be great, thanks. Can you give me a link to some risers?
 I purchased these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745066952
  
 But the seller contacted me saying he doesn't have those in stock anymore, but he does have these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745067269
  
 Those are much wider and he asked me if those would still work.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> That would be great, thanks. Can you give me a link to some risers?
> I purchased these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745066952
> 
> But the seller contacted me saying he doesn't have those in stock anymore, but he does have these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745067269
> ...




I just got to work, I'll post the pictures later tonight.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

Here are the OPA627BM's, as you can see, I have 3 risers attached to the one of the pairs to make it fit over the other one. I have wrapped the risers in electrical tape to keep them together.
  

  
 Here is the AD8066AR sitting pretty in the buffer.
  

  
 Here is a side view, the card sits between 2 graphics cards.
  
 A couple things to note. You will no longer be able to use the EMI shield that it comes with (although I don't notice a difference of it being there or not). Also, it makes the card use 2 slots in the computer.
  
 Get these instead of the one you linked to me. http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOD-1set-OPA627BP-TI-BB-Dual-to-Mono-Op-Amp-Upgrade-Part-replace-NE5532/261212204388?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D32298%26meid%3Daa1d7beb0928484580e672384b7aedac%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D350745066952
  
 It is the same thing, only plastic instead of metal, so you probably won't need electrical tape if you use those (as it takes away the conductive factor). The two op amps need to be close together, not like the one you linked to me, otherwise they certainly won't fit.
  
 As for risers, I have no idea where to get them, I was lucky and they came with my order. Try contacting the seller to see if they have any.
  
 I ordered my OPA627BM's from here. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/OPA627BM/32386197524.html You might get lucky and they send you some risers too.

 EDIT: I found some risers here: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shiping-120PCS-8pin-DIP-IC-sockets-Adaptor-Solder-Type-8-pin/1595317231.html


----------



## tkoreaper

Thanks for the pictures. Sucks that there isn't just a little more room for them.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> Thanks for the pictures. Sucks that there isn't just a little more room for them.


 

 It's true, they *just* fit with my setup.


----------



## tkoreaper

xxicrimsonixx said:


> It's true, they *just* fit with my setup.


 
 I'm hoping with the plastic one I don't need to use as many risers.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

tkoreaper said:


> I'm hoping with the plastic one I don't need to use as many risers.




You're on your own with that one.


----------



## sametbars

I bought this card and I wonder if I can connect this to my AVR using analog output and get 5.1 sound? I'm currently using SPDIF optical output and having problems with audio delay and upmixing. I think asus drivers are broken and they work if you are lucky enough...


----------



## tkoreaper

The analog connection only puts out stereo, not surround. Also, the stock drivers are terrible, use the ones from this website: http://maxedtech.com/


----------



## sametbars

I have also tried those drivers, but never got upmix working with them. With the stock one, I can sometimes get it working if I'm lucky, but not this time, after upgrading to Windows 10 
  
 Everything except the real surround sound sources (firefox, spotify, etc) play only front left and front right speakers, not even center.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

Try connecting the AVR to the RCA connectors. That is how I have mine connected (using Yamaha AVR). Which AVR are you using? Make sure that the receiver is set up to use all the speakers, because I know with mine, it can be set to just stereo, or to upmix to 5.1.


----------



## sametbars

I'm using Denon X2000 AVR, and I believe it is configured properly. I get surround sound from games, but firefox, spotify, etc only outputs front left and right. According to tkoreaper's answer, RCA (analog) connectors will only output stereo sound to my AVR, even if I set upmix stereo to surround from AVR, it will not be real surround. I'm a newbee about the audio connections, correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## PurpleAngel

sametbars said:


> I bought this card and I wonder if I can connect this to my AVR using analog output and get 5.1 sound? I'm currently using S/PDIF optical output and having problems with audio delay and upmixing. I think Asus drivers are broken and they work if you are lucky enough...


 
  
 The Essence STX can only output 2-channels thru the RCA line-output, to you need to use S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), to output 6-channels (5.1) from the STX.
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before you installed the Essence STX and driver software?
  
 What exactly are you trying to up-mix?
 (from what to what)


----------



## masterkaj

Sorry if this has been answered before, but according to the FAQ on the Uni driver page we should set the software and windows control panel to 24bit/44.1khz (generally speaking).  However, the guide section on the Head-Fi Asus Xonar Essence STX page states we should up-sample to 48khz due to a 24bit/44.1khz bug.  Was this resolved recently and the Head-Fi guide is out of date?


----------



## sametbars

purpleangel said:


> The Essence STX can only output 2-channels thru the RCA line-output, to you need to use S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), to output 6-channels (5.1) from the STX.
> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before you installed the Essence STX and driver software?
> 
> What exactly are you trying to up-mix?
> (from what to what)


 

 No I did not disable it from the bios, I disabled it from the device management in windows. I want to upmix from 2.1 to 5.1
  
 In windows 8.1 I could set everything as I wanted, after upgrading to windows 10, it was still working, then I wanted to do a clean install and could not set it up again.


----------



## magnum703

I'm loving this sound card with my pair of Paradigm Shift Powered speakers and Paradigm PDR100 subwoofer! Also can connect my headphones all together!


----------



## PurpleAngel

sametbars said:


> No I did not disable it from the bios, I disabled it from the device management in windows. I want to upmix from 2.1 to 5.1
> 
> In windows 8.1 I could set everything as I wanted, after upgrading to windows 10, it was still working, then I wanted to do a clean install and could not set it up again.


 
 Upmixing on the Essence STX or the receiver?
  
 I would run optical from the Essence STX to the receiver.
 Set the STX's Audio Channel to 6-channel and enable DDL (Dolby Digital Live) in S/PDIF
 And send 6-channels of audio to the receiver.
 To output to the 5.1 speaker setup.
 Or is your setup different?


----------



## sametbars

purpleangel said:


> Upmixing on the Essence STX or the receiver?
> 
> I would run optical from the Essence STX to the receiver.
> Set the STX's Audio Channel to 6-channel and enable DDL (Dolby Digital Live) in S/PDIF
> ...


 
 My settings are the same as you said. I get 5.1 audio from games. I think upmixing should be done within the STX, only 2.1 (stereo) source should be upmixed to 5.1 and 5.1 source should not be changed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Not sure why your up-mixing in the first place (2.1 to 5.1)?


----------



## JamesBr

sametbars said:


> My settings are the same as you said. I get 5.1 audio from games. I think upmixing should be done within the STX, only 2.1 (stereo) source should be upmixed to 5.1 and 5.1 source should not be changed.


 
 What is the purpose of the upmixing?


----------



## sametbars

jamesbr said:


> What is the purpose of the upmixing?







purpleangel said:


> Not sure why your up-mixing in the first place (2.1 to 5.1)?




Well, I like it much more when all my speakers work together. And because of it only plays 2 of my speakers, sound is not very clear and no fun to listen to music like this. I know this card can do what I want, but drivers are just too bad.


----------



## PurpleAngel

sametbars said:


> Well, I like it much more when all my speakers work together. And because of it only plays 2 of my speakers, sound is not very clear and no fun to listen to music like this. I know this card can do what I want, but drivers are just too bad.


 
 Guess I would have used the term "Expanded Stereo", your taking a 2.0 audio signal and expanding it to 5.1.
 If it's he sound you like, cool.


----------



## sirthuc

Hi everybody, im new to the opamp rolling, i have an Asus Xonar STX, after reading reading and reading... i finally chose these options, please give me recommendations, it's appriciated 
  
 should i put: 
  
 Option 1: 1x Muses02 in buffer and 2x Muses8920 in I/V
 Option 2: 1x Muses02 in buffer and 2x LME49860 in I/V
 Option 3: 3x Muses02
  
 or else?
  
 thank in advanced


----------



## tkoreaper

I haven't tried the Muses02 in my STX, but I did recently put it in my Little Dot 1+ and fell in love with it.


----------



## manhas

Hi guys
 i have a Xonar D2 and an 5.1 system Philips Hts 5540 and i connect the two through a coaxial cable
 My question is in coaxial do i use the hts 5540 dacs or the Xonar dacs?
 IF it is the Hts 5540 dacs is there a way i can use the Xonar dacs through coaxial?


 P.s: The 5.1 system has only coaxial in and stereo in so i cant use three 3.5mm jacs to connect the soundcard



 Thanks for the help!


----------



## PurpleAngel

manhas said:


> Hi guys
> i have a Xonar D2 and an 5.1 system Philips Hts 5540 and i connect the two through a coaxial cable
> My question is in coaxial do i use the hts 5540 dacs or the Xonar dacs?
> IF it is the Hts 5540 dacs is there a way i can use the Xonar dacs through coaxial?
> P.s: The 5.1 system has only coaxial in and stereo in so i cant use three 3.5mm jacs to connect the sound card


 
  
 Can't use the the Xonar D2 digital outputs (optical or coaxial) and still be able to use the D2's DAC.
  
 You could connect the D2's Front Speaker output and connect it to the Philips RCA (red/white) inputs, then you would be using the D2's DAC thru the Philips, but only in stereo audio.
 So you would only get audio out the Philips 2 Front Speakers, which I guess is find for music or any other 2-channel audio source.
 If the Philips comes with an "Expanded Stereo" option, then you could get the stereo audio to come out all 5.1 speakers, but it would still only be stereo audio (not surround sound).


----------



## manhas

thanks i just tried that and i can t hear any sound quality difference between the coaxial in and aux(stereo in) that s strange...


----------



## PurpleAngel

manhas said:


> Thanks I just tried that and I can t hear any sound quality difference between the coaxial in and aux (stereo in) that s strange...


 
 Was the S/PDIF (coaxial) output set to PCM or DDL, when testing?
  
 Is your motherboard's on-board audio disabled, in the BIOS?
 Have you tried the Unified Xonar Drivers?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 How about using the program Foobar2000 (with WASAPI) to play your audio files?


----------



## manhas

yes i m using the uni xonar drivers and the spdif is set to pcm
 i use aimp 4 on wasapi xonar d2 speakers audio device and the onboard sound is disabled in the motherboard bios


----------



## JamesBr

purpleangel said:


> Guess I would have used the term "Expanded Stereo", your taking a 2.0 audio signal and expanding it to 5.1.
> If it's he sound you like, cool.


 
 Got it!


----------



## juanej

my essence STX is blowing after a while with full or above full volume distorted sound, any thoughts?


----------



## mindbomb

juanej said:


> my essence STX is blowing after a while with full or above full volume distorted sound, any thoughts?


 
 heat? keep it as far away from your graphics card as possible


----------



## psygeist

Repalce I/V with AD8620ARZ
  
 Buffer with MUSES02
  
 Using RCA out.
  
 Sounds more forward and much emphasis on vocals.
  
 Have anyone tried this combination ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

juanej said:


> My Essence STX is blowing after a while with full or above full volume distorted sound, any thoughts?


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the STX?
 Have you tried the Unified Xonar Drivers?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## sirthuc

psygeist said:


> Repalce I/V with AD8620ARZ
> 
> Buffer with MUSES02
> 
> ...


 
 Im using STX with Muses02 in buffer and 2x Muses 8920 in I/V ... The sound seems good ) or maybe, i cannot realize the difference between the Museses and stock opamps ))))
  
 remember, 2x Muses 8920 in I/V is the config of STX II
  
 now, i still have another 1x Muses02 and 2x LME49860, and feeling lazy to rolling them ))


----------



## psygeist

sirthuc said:


> Im using STX with Muses02 in buffer and 2x Muses 8920 in I/V ... The sound seems good ) or maybe, i cannot realize the difference between the Museses and stock opamps ))))
> 
> remember, 2x Muses 8920 in I/V is the config of STX II
> 
> now, i still have another 1x Muses02 and 2x LME49860, and feeling lazy to rolling them ))


 
 Woah. All MUSES. I can't do that. Not without ordering a new pair.
  
 Where do you source your MUSES from ?


----------



## Romita

Hello to everyone, I bought this card few days ago used at a very good price, I've read 200 pages aprox. Just want to thank you all for the information posted here, taking some of your time to explaing how to do things, differences between op-amps and some technical stuff.
  
 Regards.


----------



## sirthuc

psygeist said:


> Woah. All MUSES. I can't do that. Not without ordering a new pair.
> 
> Where do you source your MUSES from ?


 
 Im Vietnamese, the Museses ordered from stores of Taobao.com (chinese website/providers). where are you from?
  
 here 2x Muses02 + 2x Muses8920 cost me only US $20, pretty cheap huh )


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

hi  i have one problem and i want to help me please;;
  
 my name is jim and today i bought gamezero sentheizer

i have my asus xonar stx but i have some questions

gamezero is 150 ohms headset but i put the 150 ohms from the amplier from asus stx and the volume was too slow i was putting 100 and in all the games the sound was low

but after i put the 300-600 ohms from the amplier from my asus stx the sound was fantastic and very loud and avesome

my question is will i have problems now which i put 300-600 ohms;;

because gamezero is 150 ohms...


but if i put 150 ohms the sound is very low in alla the games ,,, music and movies

but when i put 300-600 ohms the sound is superb


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

look in the asus stx software is telling me 

normal gain or for 64ohms headsets

high gain for 300 ohms headsets

extra high gain for 300--600ohms headsets

when i choose the high gain for 300 ohms headsets when i was playing games ,,,or music 

i was puting the volume at 100 and the sound was too low 

but when i choose the extra high gain for 300--600ohms headsets 
the sound was very loud and i was very impresed

do you understand what i mean now;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

so will  i have  problem;'';;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

please;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

can someone  help me please;;


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> look in the asus stx software is telling me
> normal gain or for 64ohms headsets
> high gain for 300 ohms headsets
> extra high gain for 300--600ohms headsets
> ...


 
  
 As you have not told us what headphones you are using, we not sure how to help you.
  
 did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the STX card?
  
 If you set the STX for mid gain (64~300) and it works, guess that mean in general the card is doing it's job?


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

I AM USING 
Sennheiser G4ME Zero  
  
*Specifications:*

*Colour* white
*Wearing style *Headband
*Impedance *Headphones: 150 Ω
*Connector *2 x 3.5 mm for desktop/laptop
*Frequency response (microphone) *50 Hz - 16,000 Hz
*Frequency response (headphones) *10 Hz – 26.000 Hz
*Sound pressure level (SPL) *108 dB
*THD, total harmonic distortion *< 0.1%
*Ear coupling *Headphones, around-the-ear, closed acoustic design
*Cable length *3 m
*Weight *312g
*Pick-up pattern *Microphone: Noise Cancelling
*Sensitivity *Microphone: -38 dBV at 94 dBSPL
  
  
  
but my gamezero is 150 ohms and me i put 300-600 ohms from the amplier of my stx

will i destroy my headsets and my asus stx;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

look in when i put 150 ohms from the amplier of my asus stx in games movies i dont hear big sound how to explain you my ears doent blow way


but when i put 300-600 the sound is very loud and fantastic and i feel that i am inside  in  the  game


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

yes i have disable  the motherboard's on-board audio


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis




----------



## Jim Arvanitakis




----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

so am i risk;;;;  tell me please;;


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> so am i risk;;;;  tell me please;;


 
  
 So your issue is if setting the STX for the highest gain (300~600), will it damage your 150-Ohm G4ME ZERO headphones?
 In general, you will not damage the G4ME zero headphones using the STX's highest game settings.
 Wither the STX is set for low or mid or high gain, it still takes the same amount of voltage to make a certain volume level.
 So the level you set the volume control on the STX more so dictates the voltage, more then what the gain is set to.
 Chances are your ear drums would suffer damage before the diaphragms in the headphone cups break.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

so is it safe  to  put 150-Ohm G4ME ZERO headphone   in   highest gain (300~600);;;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

but  you know something  for a long  time i didnt use asus  stx because i didt  have headfones and now i see  how powefull is the asus stx
  
  
 very powerfull card
  
  
 am i corect;;
  
  
 it looks like  you are in  tha game inside


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

when i play games and i put  highest gain (300~600)  the  volume i have it in  30  because  if i  put in  60 and 70  is lilke
  
 how to explain   eartquake
  
  
 you  hear  everything  guns  all the effects


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> So is it safe to put 150-Ohm G4ME ZERO headphone in highest gain (300~600);;;;


 
  
 In a very general sense, it's safe to use the 300-~600 gain setting for 150-Ohm headphones.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

but why   it's safe to use the 300-~600 gain setting for 150-Ohm headphones.;;;; can   you tell me the reason please;;;


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> But you know something for a long time I didn't use Asus STX because I didn't have headphones and now I see how powerful is the Asus STX.
> Very powerful card.
> am I correct;;
> It looks like you are in the game inside.


 
  
 The headphone amplifier built into the Asus Xonar Essence STX is decently powerful.
 My STX could drive my 600-Ohm headphones.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

but why   it's safe to use the 300-~600 gain setting for 150-Ohm headphones.;;;; can   you tell me the reason please;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

but  the gamezero sentheizer  are  very good for my opinion
  
 what is  your  opinion  for  gamezero sentheizer'''';;;;


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> but why it's safe to use the 300-~600 gain setting for 150-Ohm headphones.;;;; can   you tell me the reason please;;


 
  
 Setting the STX's gain to 300~600 just makes the headphone amplifier's default voltage output start out a little higher.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i have another question i want to connect  the  microfone from gamezero in the asus stx
  
 but  it says  that i need   adapter
  
  
 what adapter i need;;
  
 can  you show me in one link what adapter i need
  
 because i dont have it


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> i have another question i want to connect  the  microfone from gamezero in the asus stx
> but  it says  that i need   adapter
> what adapter i need;;
> can  you show me in one link what adapter i need
> because i dont have it


 
  
 Game zero?
 I thought you had the G4ME Zero.
 There is the older 150-Ohm G4ME zero and the newer 50-Ohm Game zero, which one do you have?


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i have the game zero


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i send the  links to see


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

why;;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

http://technosound.gr/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=3449
  
*Technical Data and Specification of G4ME™ ZERO*   
Color : black​
Wearing style Headband​
Impedance Headphones: 150 Ω​
Connector 2 x 3.5 mm for desktop/laptop​
Frequency response (microphone) Microphone: 50 Hz - 16,000 Hz​
Frequency response (headphones) Headphones: 10 Hz – 26.000 Hz​
Sound pressure level (SPL) Headphones: 108 dB​
THD, total harmonic distortion Headphones: < 0.1%​
Ear couplingHeadphones: around-the-ear, closed acoustic design​
Cable length: 3 m​
Weight: 312g​
Pick-up pattern Microphone: Noise Cancelling​
Sensitivity Microphone: -38 dBV at 94 dBSPL​


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

http://www.odes.gr/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=9179&Itemid=138&ref=bestprice.gr
  
  
The ultimate model headset-closed-ideal for professional gamers
 Comfortable to wear, with superior sound and design, the Game Zero delivers great sound across a range of sound frequencies (10 Hz - 26,000 Hz). Features CHCHL soft foam pads headphone / cue and automatically mute the microphone by raising the   boom.. The G4ME ™ ONE and the G4ME ™ ZERO represent the beginning of a new era in the design of professional gaming Headset. Particular emphasis was given to ergonomics and comfort for long hours of use.Alongside the leading technology in embedded noise cancellation microphone ensures clear communication.
 
The SENNHEISER remains the only gaming headset manufacturing company in the world that produces its own sensors, the units are the G4ME ™ ZERO and G4ME ™ ONE adapted to reproduce with impressive detail the sound of a game. But the peak of activity smart features such as intuitive audio controls to the headphone capsule and the ability to set the microphone to mute, just lifting it, show that without distractions you can dedicate to gaming action.
 
 
Application:GamingType:Headband, closed typeFrequency response:Headphone: 10 Hz - 26.000 Hz- MIC: 50 Hz - 16,000 HzResistance:150 OhMaximum harmonic distortion:<1%Cable length:3mColour:Black


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

you mean gameone has  50  ohms


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i have  the  newest gamezero with 150 ohms
  
 this gameone  you mean has  50 ohms
  
  
  
 there are  2
  
 gameone and gamezero


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

can you tell me please;;
  
 what happened;;


----------



## lucianpescaru

jim arvanitakis said:


> can you tell me please;;
> 
> what happened;;


 
 http://www.amazon.com/iMBAPrice%C2%AE-Premium-Quality-Adapter-STEREO/dp/B00BE50BPO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1441209406&sr=8-2&keywords=3.5+6.5+adapter&pebp=1441209413038&perid=0KFYPB1PRTMHB695SA1V


----------



## ark123

***zzz***


----------



## Romita

The million question is why you make so many posts, rushed by impatience. You can google the answer too.


----------



## psygeist

jim arvanitakis said:


> why;;;


 
 I am just trying to wrap my head around the use of ;;; in your posts. I am curious to know the reason if you may indulge to my whim.


----------



## tkoreaper

Just came here to say that I just put 2 Burson Supreme Sound Opamps in the I/V and a MUSES02 in the buffer... WOW! Everything is perfect. Just keep in mind that you'll need some extensions because these things are huge. luckily Burson offers extensions that you can purchase separately.
  
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/discrete-opamp/


----------



## bcschmerker4

Thanks for the lookup on the Burson® Supreme Sound™ modules; they're perfect for a number of home-audio devices.  I'm more awaiting an all-SMT counterpart thereto that I can fit in my STX' buffer sockets and not have to punch holes in the RFI shield; I cannot use them in my Asus® CM1630 at present, as the STX has to sit right next the EAH6850DC/2D1S/1GD5 video card due to the expansion-slot set-up on the stock M4A78LT-M 'board.


----------



## tkoreaper

bcschmerker4 said:


> Thanks for the lookup on the Burson® Supreme Sound™ modules; they're perfect for a number of home-audio devices.  I'm more awaiting an all-SMT counterpart thereto that I can fit in my STX' buffer sockets and not have to punch holes in the RFI shield; I cannot use them in my Asus® CM1630 at present, as the STX has to sit right next the EAH6850DC/2D1S/1GD5 video card due to the expansion-slot set-up on the stock M4A78LT-M 'board.


 
 I run SLI GTX 970s and I noticed no difference when I had my RFI shield off. It's also really tight in mine too, but the great thing about the Burson extensions is that they're bendable. I am now able to put my RFI shield back on without having to cut anything on the face of the card. I did notch out a spot on the sides so that the two Opamps could go through. Ignore the electrical tape... I just wanted to be sure it couldn't do anything bad.


----------



## Romita

Hello guys, i purchased a Senn HD650 and i want to try a few op-amps. Reading the recommendations given in the first post, would be a good idea to try _LME49720NA _in the buffer an leaving the I/V stock ?
  
 My idea is to get a little more soundstage with a bit more of bass. I'll appreciate the recomendations !
  
 (Sorry for my english, maybe writing here is a good way to improve it).


----------



## PurpleAngel

romita said:


> Hello guys, i purchased a Senn HD650 and i want to try a few op-amps. Reading the recommendations given in the first post, would be a good idea to try _LME49720NA _in the buffer an leaving the I/V stock ?
> 
> My idea is to get a little more sound stage with a bit more of bass. I'll appreciate the recommendations !
> 
> (Sorry for my English, maybe writing here is a good way to improve it).


 
  
 The LM4652 in the STX's buffer slot is a relabeled LME49720.
 So I'm guess you will want to replace the two op-amps in the I/V slots.


----------



## lucianpescaru

The buffer does not pass signal to the integrated headphone amp. The hp amplifier gets the signal directly from the I/V. If you have an external HP amp then you might try swapping the buffer but it should sound similar to the stock config.


----------



## ulfarn

hi guys,
 right now i have 2 LME49720NA  and 1 LM6172 in buffer.
 would it also be possible to use single Op-Amps (like the LME49710HA) in the I/V ?


----------



## Romita

lucianpescaru said:


> The buffer does not pass signal to the integrated headphone amp. The hp amplifier gets the signal directly from the I/V. If you have an external HP amp then you might try swapping the buffer but it should sound similar to the stock config.


 
 You're right, thanks for the info. I think i just have to read a lot about op-amps and which combination would be a good match for the HD 650.
  
 If anyone has an idea how to get a little more bass and a soundstage, i'll appreciate it.


----------



## ulfarn

on the first page of this thread you can find some different Op-Amps tested with the HD650s.
 According to it the LME49720 is a good choice, if you want more bass the LM6172 would be a better choice.

 The LME49720HA has a better bass and also the sound stage should be better than the NA´s, but you willl need an adapter to DIP8 or you have to bend the pins to fit in (it comes in TO-99 metal casing). 


leeperry said:


> these 49720 are not perfect, a slight lack of bass(but it sounds natural! I don't want a DT770/Pro-like subwoofer bass
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 According to other posts the sound quality will also improve, when you use two single rail OP-AMPs (for example 2 LME49710HA) on an adapter board. 
  
 But in the end your choice depends on your personal preferences and how you want the sound. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I will probably order the LME49710HAs and an adapter. Then i can tell you how it sounds compared to my current setup (2x LME49720NA and 1x LM6172 in buffer).


----------



## Vartan

Guys for line out card is using 3 op-amp same time?
 I forget it


----------



## StarFeces

Hey all,
  
 I am going to begin perusing the 300+ pages to see what I can find, but I am just now getting around to assembling a build with a Xonar Essence STX and Windows 8.1 64-Bit.
  
 I am not ready to use third-party drivers, and would rather avoid the "Beta" drivers provided by ASUS. This leaves me with little to choose from. Do/Would the Windows 8 drivers work for Windows 8.1 with a Xonar Essence STX?
  
 Is there perhaps a different sound card recommendation that is more up to date? Frustrating predicament, to say the least. Weird that ASUS doesn't seem to support this card more...
  
 Thanks all


----------



## cas33

sirthuc said:


> Im Vietnamese, the Museses ordered from stores of Taobao.com (chinese website/providers). where are you from?
> 
> here 2x Muses02 + 2x Muses8920 cost me only US $20, pretty cheap huh )


 
 Those prices are screaming fakes. A used muses01/02 are found near the $30 mark. It is generally risky to be ordering electrical parts from Taobao. Mouser electronics/ more research could be a good source to check for price references.


----------



## lucianpescaru

vartan said:


> Guys for line out card is using 3 op-amp same time?
> I forget it


 
  
 Yes, 2xIV / lowpass and one for buffer. Anyone tried OPA2107AP? It's expensive but it's supposed to sound close to the famous single OPA627.


----------



## PurpleAngel

vartan said:


> Guys for line out card is using 3 op-amp same time?
> I forget it


 
  
 Yes, line-output on the Essence STX (& ST) use all three op-amps.


----------



## JamesBr

purpleangel said:


> Yes, line-output on the Essence STX (& ST) use all three op-amps.


 
 +1


----------



## gandahar

hi
  
 i consider getting this card , however in the past i had asus xonar d1 and i expirenced problems such as
  
 horrible random high volume noise - not very common , but when it happen it is scarry and could damage earing
  
 card not detected during startup - this started to happen around a year after i got the card
  
 my question is , how common are this problems ? (i notice that in this forum there is a thread about the random high noise from the card) , how reliable the card is ? , do you own it for more than a year without problems ?
  
 thanks for any answer.


----------



## paulguru

New soundcard by Asus.


----------



## tkoreaper

gandahar said:


> hi
> 
> i consider getting this card , however in the past i had asus xonar d1 and i expirenced problems such as
> 
> ...


 
 I've never had any issues outside of compatibility ones and that is fixed by using better drivers. I've gone through 3 of these cards... First was a standard PCI card and then I upgraded my motherboard so I had to get a PCI-E version and the first one one those I got was DOA, but I was quickly given a replacement from Amazon. No other issues since.


----------



## gandahar

another question, what DAC/AMP would you consider as an alternative for this card ?
 (in terms of sound quality) ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

gandahar said:


> another question, what DAC/AMP would you consider as an alternative for this card ?
> (in terms of sound quality) ?


 
  
 Maybe a Schiit Fulla, USB/DAC/amp


----------



## bcschmerker4

gandahar said:


> hi
> 
> i consider getting this card , however in the past i had asus xonar d1 and i expirenced problems such as
> 
> ...


 

 Card not detected during startup?  That is a known hardware issue with the C-Media CMI-8788 digital audio processor.  The Advanced LinUX Sound Architecture Project has a full Page "Xonar EEPROM failure" on this issue and a solution usable in International Business Machines PC DOS or equivalent.


----------



## gandahar

i am not sure if my case with the d1 is exactly the problem that you describe.
 since sometimes the card is not detected and after few more reboots and it suddenly detected.
 and by "detected" i mean a clicking sound during startup and recognition by windows.
  
 also the card had another problem which is random very high noise , luckly everytime it happen
 i was using headphones that are not very loud and i was able to get them away from my head very 
 fast, however if i had full size headphones during this event i could had earing damage....
  
 anyway i don't think that i will buy an asus sound card again, their cards are very tempting
 to get, with alot of features & good sound quality , however the fact that i paid money for something
 that died so soon is just so annoying, i had much less expensive hardware that lasted for years.
  
 i guess that there is a reason why they don't give more than one year warrenty for their sound cards...


----------



## tkoreaper

gandahar said:


> i am not sure if my case with the d1 is exactly the problem that you describe.
> since sometimes the card is not detected and after few more reboots and it suddenly detected.
> and by "detected" i mean a clicking sound during startup and recognition by windows.
> 
> ...



You're free to do as you please, but IMO I wouldn't let 1 card influence your decision just because you got unlucky. I assure you that it's a rare occurance... Stuff like that is a possibility on all hardware. Maybe you should hold out until these new STRIX cards come out... they're looking to be amazing.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

Hello
  
  
 before    one month ago I bought the headphones gamezero
  
  
 My question is   that the headphones is    150 ohms and I put them in the amplier asus stx to 300-600 ohms for the reason that in 150 ohms  i  was listening LOW .. although they  told me   that the amplier from   asus stx can handle my   headphones ..which are  150  ohms
  
  
 my question is and I do not know maybe is  my   imagination
  
  
 I think   that     they    do not give the intensity as they gave before  ... did my headfones  burned ;;;
  
  
 ;; I want to say is it  POSSIBLE  that  gamezero   loses a little in intensity ,,,,,,,,,, ... ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
  
 did  my headfones burned;;;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i am  hearing sound  but i  think   my headsets  loses  little  volume sound;;
  
 is my imagination;; or my gamezero  burned;;;;;;;;;;;;; and  the  volume sound is  not very loud as before;l;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

did  my  gamezero burned  because  i  have   them in 300-600 ohms  from  the amplier  from my asus stx΄΄;;  one month now..


----------



## PurpleAngel

jim arvanitakis said:


> Before one month ago I bought the headphones game zero
> My question is   that the headphones is 150 ohms and I put them in the amplifier Asus STX to 300-600 ohms for the reason that in 150 ohms  I was listening LOW .. although they told me that the amplifier from   Asus STX can handle my headphones..which are 150 ohms
> my question is and I do not know maybe is  my   imagination
> I think   that     they    do not give the intensity as they gave before  ... did my headphones  burned ;;;
> ...


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before installing the STX and the Asus software?


----------



## PurpleAngel

> Did my Game zero burned because I have them in 300-600 ohms  from  the amplifier  from my Asus STX΄΄;;  one month now..


 
  
 Chances are setting the STX to it's highest gain (300~600) did not damage your 150-Ohm Sennheiser Game Zero headphones.
 No matter which gain setting you use on the STX ( <64-Ohm or 64~300-Ohm or 300~600-Ohm), it still takes the same amount of voltage for a given volume, on your headphones.
 The higher gain settings give an extra voltage boost, but it's still the volume control that has the final say on how much voltage is sent to the headphones.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

yes  i disable it            before installing the STX and the Asus software


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

I think   that     they    do not give the intensity as they gave before  ... 
 ;; I want to say is it  POSSIBLE  that  Game Zero   loses a little in intensity
  
  
  
  
  
 is it posible  this;l;


----------



## CT007

Fooling around with Xonar Audio Center settings. Found a cool way to add a nice, clean bass & body boost to my HD600's, instead of messing with the damn EQ.
  
 1) Enable 'Dolby Virtual Speaker' ('Reference Mode' sound cleanest)
 2) Enable '7.1 Virtual Speaker' (default)
 3) In the 7.1 Virtual Speaker tab, click the guy in the middle of the blue square and drag him up a bit.


----------



## jamessmith

Hi. 
  
 I'm using Foobar+ASIO with this card in Windows 8.1 and previously in Windows 7. I'd like to browse the web while listening to music but any activity on the browser (clicking tabs, opening the browser window, etc) gives me clicks and pops, bothering the audio reproduction. 
  
 I tried this: Enable onboard audio as favourite device for general purpose (everything else but music) leaving music to Foobar and Xonar Essence in the output options of Foobar, but still I'm getting clicks and pops when operating the browser window. 
  
 Should I give up ASIO playback in favour of Wasapi or Kernel Streaming? Do Unidrivers solve this (I always used ASUS drivers)?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## mindbomb

jamessmith said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm using Foobar+ASIO with this card in Windows 8.1 and previously in Windows 7. I'd like to browse the web while listening to music but any activity on the browser (clicking tabs, opening the browser window, etc) gives me clicks and pops, bothering the audio reproduction.
> 
> ...


 
 Disable all audio devices except the one you are using.


----------



## PurpleAngel

jamessmith said:


> I'm using Foobar+ASIO with this card in Windows 8.1 and previously in Windows 7. I'd like to browse the web while listening to music but any activity on the browser (clicking tabs, opening the browser window, etc) gives me clicks and pops, bothering the audio reproduction.
> I tried this: Enable on-board audio as favorite device for general purpose (everything else but music) leaving music to Foobar and Xonar Essence in the output options of Foobar, but still I'm getting clicks and pops when operating the browser window.
> Should I give up ASIO playback in favor of Wasapi or Kernel Streaming? Do Unidrivers solve this (I always used ASUS drivers)?


 
  
 Leave on-board audio disabled in the BIOS, just use the STX for all audio.
 Move STX to PCI-E slot farthest from graphics card
 Try using WASAPI component with Foobar2000.
 Delete Asus drivers and install the Unified Xonar Drivers.
  
 If you still have clicking issues, you might consider selling off STX and getting something (DAC/amp) external.


----------



## mindbomb

I've had something similar happen with wasapi exclusive in windows 7 and google chrome. Chrome would see that the audio device wasn't available, and then would automatically force itself on the next available audio device, causing the drop outs in the exclusive renderer. I didn't think it happened with asio though.


----------



## lucianpescaru

jamessmith said:


> Hi.
> 
> Should I give up ASIO playback in favour of Wasapi or Kernel Streaming? Do Unidrivers solve this (I always used ASUS drivers)?
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Foobar with WASAPI (push) works best for me, I had pops using ASIO too.


----------



## jamessmith

I'm gonna try all this options and combinations and see what works for me... I'll let you know the results. Thanks for the quick feedback 
  
 EDIT: I tried everything except Unified Xonar drivers. Only way I get rid of clicks and pops when using Chrome is selecting Wasapi or KS. So, ASIO seems to have problems to coexist with other PC activities like using a web browser. I'll try Unified drivers now.


----------



## mindbomb

just to elaborate, to disable the other sound devices, you go to control panel, hardware and sound, sound, right click on everything and click disable until there is just one xonar entry remaining.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mindbomb said:


> just to elaborate, to disable the other sound devices, you go to control panel, hardware and sound, sound, right click on everything and click disable until there is just one Xonar entry remaining.


 
 Basically that should work.


----------



## saddleup

Man there is a lot of info in this thread.  Thanks to everyone for the valuable read.  I'm using the STX with JRiver and Wasapi.  I'm about to order 3 Burr Brown OPA627AU op amp modules.


----------



## y0d4

Hi,
  
 can i get some assistance here? 
 i have issue with DPC, constant is around 600-1000, sometimes  he hold 1000 sometimes 600 ..
 i saw that others have under 50 ..
  
 What i can do to decrease it?
  
 p.s: using latest asus-xonar-unified-drivers on windows 10 64bit (also test DPC without driver and it is same).
 switching hpet on/off did not change situation...
  
 latencymon on drivers:
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/tzhbdx09z5be85v/latency.PNG?dl=0
  


> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> CONCLUSION
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Your system appears to be suitable for handling real-time audio and other tasks without dropouts.
> ...


 
  
 and jriver from time to time just crash (using over asio driver) and jriver is default playback device on windows.


----------



## lucianpescaru

saddleup said:


> Man there is a lot of info in this thread.  Thanks to everyone for the valuable read.  I'm using the STX with JRiver and Wasapi.  I'm about to order 3 Burr Brown OPA627AU op amp modules.


 
 OPA627 is single OPA. STX uses duals. You may order OPA2107AP which is supposed to be close sounding to the 627. Or you can go with the 627 on adapters but you need 6 pcs.


----------



## saddleup

Yep, getting them preassembled. http://www.partsconnexion.com/product4269.html


----------



## xPakrikx

3x muses02 or 3x muses01 ?
  
 Speakers : EVE audio sc205
  
 Thanks


----------



## lucianpescaru

saddleup said:


> Yep, getting them preassembled. http://www.partsconnexion.com/product4269.html


 
  
 Ouch... and I thought my OPA2107AP were expensive


----------



## saddleup

I came from a world of $2000 CD and Universal players.  Using a computer as a source is huge bargain by comparison.  Some of the best players I've experienced have used the OPA627 in the analog output stage and Burr Brown Dacs.  I'm really excited to be able to get the sonic signature I'm after for the cost of the Xonar STX and the OPA627 op amps.
  
 It wasn't until I discovered JRiver that I realized a computer can make music that rivals high end CD players!


----------



## y0d4

y0d4 said:


> Hi,
> 
> can i get some assistance here?
> i have issue with DPC, constant is around 600-1000, sometimes  he hold 1000 sometimes 600 ..
> ...


 
 i found the cause!
 I have on my mobo EIST (Enhanced Intel SpeedStep® Technology) option which make constant latency of DPC, when i turn that off, seems that computer runs better and latency is under 10!!
 Also jriver now working great, without issues which i was have!
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/68vvfds70l9o1uh/latency2.jpg?dl=0


----------



## rvcjew

y0d4 said:


> i found the cause!
> I have on my mobo EIST (Enhanced Intel SpeedStep® Technology) option which make constant latency of DPC, when i turn that off, seems that computer runs better and latency is under 10!!
> Also jriver now working great, without issues which i was have!
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/68vvfds70l9o1uh/latency2.jpg?dl=0


 
 Yup speedstep likes to introduce a lot of latency at low clocks.


----------



## Burson Audio

tkoreaper said:


> Just came here to say that I just put 2 Burson Supreme Sound Opamps in the I/V and a MUSES02 in the buffer... WOW! Everything is perfect. Just keep in mind that you'll need some extensions because these things are huge. luckily Burson offers extensions that you can purchase separately.
> 
> http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/discrete-opamp/


 
  
 Thank you for your kind feedback.  We have just introduced a “not so” huge V5 SS OPA.  It is 30% smaller and requires 3 times less current, which means it suits the STX perfectly.  http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/ please feel free to contact us on or off HF if you have any questions. : )


----------



## rjm003

Greetings. Today I modified my STX by upgrading the four 2700 pF caps in the LP filter to WIMA FPK and, while I was in there, changing out the LM4562 and 2114D for 3x NE5532A.
  

  
 To my ears the TI NE5532A sounds as a good as any op amp for these kinds of low impedance, low gain applications. Warm, rich, lush. Did not disappoint me in the STX: Truly the comfy chair of op amps. There are cleaner-sounding op amps out there, probably more spacious-sounding op amps out there too, but NE5532/4 brings me my music the way I like it: dark and just a little smoky.
  
 LM4562 and 2114D in comparison sound thin to the point of skeletal.


----------



## y0d4

Hi rjm003, 
  
 can you explain little more what you done exactly?
 because i found this chip with ok price, maybe i would upgrade my STX 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NE5532-NE5532A-Low-noise-dual-opamp-TRUE-TI-from-USA-genuine-avoid-Asian-fakes-/181902399601?hash=item2a5a3a5871:g:VvcAAOSwA4dWHbCD
  
 tnx.


----------



## rjm003

Sure, let me give it a shot.
  
 Here's the stock board with the cover off,
  

  
 The three socketed 8 pin op amps for the I-V stage and output stage are visible top left. Zooming in,
  

  
 The I-V stage is to the right, two JRC2114D shown. The output differential-single converter / low pass filter is the LM4562 at left. It has four 2n7 (2700pF) caps around it, the small white rectangles right next to the op amp marked 2n7J400. Those caps are not bypass caps, but rather the low pass filter. The circuit is almost certainly based on the one in the PCM1792A datasheet,
  

  
 So, apart from removing the stock op amps and replacing them with NE5532A (mouser part number 595-NE5532AP) I desoldered the four caps and replaced them with WIMA FKP (mouser part number FKP2D012701D00HA00).


----------



## y0d4

Great, it`s clear! 
 just confirm me are this what i need?
 4x
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-WIMA-FKP2-2700P-2700PF-2-7nF-2-7nF-100V-2-5-pich-5mm-Capacitor-/151254779255?hash=item23377cc577mC0U9x6PxzCGcFWuSLWnA9A
 3x
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TEXAS-INSTRUMENTS-NE5532AP-OP-AMP-DUAL-LOW-NOISE-5532-/271305187078?hash=item3f2b0c9f06mLYAmmERqht4m1si2Qb_ytQ
  
 ?
  
 thank you!


----------



## rjm003

Yes, those should do.
  
 By the way, about the NE5532/4, it's worth noting that these are recommended by default in the datasheet for the IV stage as being guaranteed to reproduce the datasheet performance figures for the DAC. Don't let the low price put you off, they are very good for general purpose audio.


----------



## lucianpescaru

The ebay caps - they're already 10pcs, you only need 4 pcs. So just one item from ebay.
  
 If you like bright and detailed sound with tight bass try OPA2107. They're coloured but they sound nice


----------



## y0d4

thank you rjm003! i ordered and when i set i will write my impression.
  
 Lucianpescaru, thank you for ebay notice! i did not saw 10pcs 
 I will try your recommendation if i am not satisfied with NE5532.


----------



## Burson Audio

After following your discussions here I have decided to also get my hands on a Xonar Essence STX sound card.   Out of the box, I am really impressed by the built quality and performance of this sound card.  I have since done the V5 SS opamp mod and found its sound changed in interesting ways. 
  
 I know there are so many other mods and each pushes the performance of the STX from different angles.   I hope to attempt them down the track and I am also open to any suggestions. 
 Here is the link to the mod page: : ) http://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-essence-stx-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/


----------



## rjm003

@Burson Audio
 With input offset bias currents for the SS V5 module in the hundreds of microamps (compared to nanopamps for the NE5532) I'm a little concerned about the output offset voltages. From your published datasheet and the PCM1792A example circuit I estimate the offset might reach as high as 100-200 mV. Can you confirm the offsets at both the output of the IV and LP stages for us please?


----------



## Burson Audio

Are you looking at the new V5 data sheet? It only require 7ma not hundreds  It is very well suited for PC sound card project.


----------



## Burson Audio

rjm003 said:


> @Burson Audio
> With input offset bias currents for the SS V5 module in the hundreds of microamps (compared to nanopamps for the NE5532) I'm a little concerned about the output offset voltages. From your published datasheet and the PCM1792A example circuit I estimate the offset might reach as high as 100-200 mV. Can you confirm the offsets at both the output of the IV and LP stages for us please?


 
  
 You maybe thinking about the V4 opamp. The V5 has been redesigned for lower voltage and less current drawn. Only require 7ma so it is very well suited for PC sound card mod. Not to mentioned the much smaller profile.


----------



## MrHeadphone

Hey guys, quick question about the *Xonar STX Soundcard*. Im using the RCA Outputs into a 2.1 Soundsystem with an integrated amp .
  
When I set the Volume to 80-100% in the Asus driver on Windows, the Sound gets very distorted, so I have to keep it at about 50-60% for "clean" audio. Is my card broken or is it normal, that the audio gets "*scratchy"* on higher volume level?
  
The Headphone output on the other hand sounds very clean, even on 100% volume. So Im concerned about the RCA Volume issue.
  
Please let me know what you think.


----------



## lucianpescaru

Plug your headphones or another amplifier to the RCA outs.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mrheadphone said:


> Hey guys, quick question about the *Xonar STX Sound card*. I'm using the RCA Outputs into a 2.1 Sound system with an integrated amp .
> When I set the Volume to 80-100% in the Asus driver on Windows, the Sound gets very distorted, so I have to keep it at about 50-60% for "clean" audio. Is my card broken or is it normal, that the audio gets "*scratchy"* on higher volume level?
> The Headphone output on the other hand sounds very clean, even on 100% volume. So I'm concerned about the RCA Volume issue.
> Please let me know what you think.


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the Essence STX?
  
 Might also try replacing the Asus drivers with the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## MrHeadphone

lucianpescaru said:


> Plug your headphones or another amplifier to the RCA outs.


 
Turned out that plugging my headphones directly into the RCA Outs, even on 100% volume there is no distortion or scratchy noise. Does that mean the distoriton is *due to my 2.1System?*
  
My Setup:
Xonar STX -> RCA LR OUT -> Teufel 2.1 Concept C200 BE
  
The 2.1 System has an integrated amp and I asume that the amp is somehow causing the distortion, but only when windows volume is set higher then 70%. 
  
Example Szenario: 1) Windows sound is set to 100% and the 2.1System Volume is set to minimum=Distortion
                            2) Windows sound is set to 50%, 2.1 System volume set to maximum = No distortion
  
What could be the reason for this?


----------



## rjm003

burson audio said:


> You maybe thinking about the V4 opamp. The V5 has been redesigned for lower voltage and less current drawn. Only require 7ma so it is very well suited for PC sound card mod. Not to mentioned the much smaller profile.


 
  
@Burson Audio
  
 I was referring to the input bias currents and the resulting, possibly high, output voltage offset. This has nothing to do with the power consumption or the current draw of the package.
  
 Please measure the output offset voltages of the op amps when used in the STX. They might be dangerously high.
  
 No offence but are you an intern or something? It's rather worrisome that someone working at Burson wouldn't know to check this when testing a module in any new circuit environment.


----------



## Burson Audio

rjm003 said:


> @Burson Audio
> 
> I was referring to the input bias currents and the resulting, possibly high, output voltage offset. This has nothing to do with the power consumption or the current draw of the package.
> 
> ...


 
 The new V5 has a very low DC offset measurement of 5mv due to its new design.


----------



## rjm003

The output DC offset voltage is application dependent. It depends on the gain, the input offset voltage, input offset current, input bias current, and the impedances seen by the IN+ and IN- inputs.
  
  
 (And shouldn't you be the one telling _me _this, and not the other way around? This whole conversation is surreal...)
  

  
 Those are the datasheet values for the SS V5. For low gain, high impedance application with unbalanced input loading the key number is the maximum input bias current of 0.27 mA. The maximum output offset voltage expected under this approximation is (Zin- - Zin+) * 0.00027 A * GAIN. Far from 5 mV, the output offset voltage in any real circuit could easily be 1 V or more.
  
 If you consider the following example,
  

  
 The output offset with the SS V5 could be as high as (10k-909 ohms) * 0.00027 * 11 = 27 volts. (The comparable figure for the NE5534, max bias current 0.000002 A, is 200 mV) For the STX it shouldn't be anywhere like as bad, but given your module has input bias currents and input offset currents 100 and 1000 times higher, respectively, than the ICs they are designed to replace don't you think it would be prudent to actually go and measure it with DVM and get back to us with this information?


----------



## MrHeadphone

mrheadphone said:


> Turned out that plugging my headphones directly into the RCA Outs, even on 100% volume there is no distortion or scratchy noise. Does that mean the distoriton is *due to my 2.1System?*
> 
> My Setup:
> Xonar STX -> RCA LR OUT -> Teufel 2.1 Concept C200 BE
> ...


 
  
*EDID: *It gets weird.

 Asuming my 2.1 System was causing the distortion, for testing purposes I pluged my Iphone, Notebook and OnboardSoundcard of my PC to my 2.1System with 100% Windows Volume and there was no distortion whatsoever.

 Afterwards I hooked up the STX Soundcard to my old Denon Amp, 100% windows volume and....no distortion.
 Somehow the STX Soundcard and my 2.1 System wont get along with each other, at least when windows volume is set higher then 70%. But why? Im guessing it has something to do with impedance, but it would be very great to get some input from you guys here.

 Please let me know what you think.


----------



## rvcjew

mrheadphone said:


> *EDID:* It gets weird.
> 
> 
> Asuming my 2.1 System was causing the distortion, for testing purposes I pluged my Iphone, Notebook and OnboardSoundcard of my PC to my 2.1System with 100% Windows Volume and there was no distortion whatsoever.
> ...


Perhaps the 2.1 with stx is causing a ground loop, and you need a ground loop isolator in between. Is the distortion with a hum included?


----------



## MrHeadphone

rvcjew said:


> Perhaps the 2.1 with stx is causing a ground loop, and you need a ground loop isolator in between. Is the distortion with a hum included?


 
 There is no hum or static noise. Its a typical distortion sound (boosted, uneven and "scratchy / crackly"). Could it be that the STX needs a higher quailty amp like my Denon, because as mentioned, with the Denon Amp there is no problem in soundquiality. 
  
 Connecting the 2.1 System to my notebook or iphone did not repreduce the distortion. So the 2.1 System is working. Maybe the STX RCA Output has a too high preamplification for the 2.1System?? I really want to solve this here... but Im out of Ideas.


----------



## rvcjew

mrheadphone said:


> There is no hum or static noise. Its a typical distortion sound (boosted, uneven and "scratchy / crackly"). Could it be that the STX needs a higher quailty amp like my Denon, because as mentioned, with the Denon Amp there is no problem in soundquiality.
> 
> Connecting the 2.1 System to my notebook or iphone did not repreduce the distortion. So the 2.1 System is working. Maybe the STX RCA Output has a too high preamplification for the 2.1System?? I really want to solve this here... but Im out of Ideas.


 
 Does the denon have like a zone 2 preamp out of its own that you could hook to the 2.1 system after hooking the stx to the denon normally, that would boost the signal to the 2.1 system. Perhaps the 2.1 is not getting enough of a signal from the stx. Your other sources: laptop and iphone, would already be amped to some degree. Is it distorted at any volume? EDIT: just noticed that your 2.1 has a headphone out on the volume console, if you plug in your headphones to that area is the signal still distorted?


----------



## MrHeadphone

rvcjew said:


> Does the denon have like a zone 2 preamp out of its own that you could hook to the 2.1 system after hooking the stx to the denon normally, that would boost the signal to the 2.1 system. Perhaps the 2.1 is not getting enough of a signal from the stx. Your other sources: laptop and iphone, would already be amped to some degree. Is it distorted at any volume? EDIT: just noticed that your 2.1 has a headphone out on the volume console, if you plug in your headphones to that area is the signal still distorted?


 
 First of all thanks a bunch for your effort. As you suggested, I pluged my headphones into the headpohone out on the volume console of the 2.1System and yes, distortion is there as well.
 I tried the RCA Pre-Out on the Denon Amp, but I wasnt able to get Sound.
  
To sum up: Setting is always 100% Windows Volume.
 1) XonarSTX ->RCA Out -> 2.1System = *Distoriton*
     XonarSTX ->RCA Out -> 2.1System > Headphones on Headphone Out = *Distoriton*
     Xonar STX->RCA Out -> Headphones = No distortion
  
     Xonar STX-> Denon Amp= No distortion
     Xonar STX-> DVD Player RCA input = No distortion
  
 2) 2.1System. -> Notebook = No distortion
     2.1System -> Iphone full Volume = No distortion
     2.1System -> SamePc with OnBoard Soundcard = No distortion
 One note: Since the Notebook, Iphone and Onboard have 3,5mm out, im using a 3,5mm to RCA LR adapter into the 2.1System.
  
 Finally I just want to remember that setting Windows Volume to around 60% and lower, solves the distortion problem with the STX-2.1 Setup.
  
 ^^Any Ideas?


----------



## rvcjew

mrheadphone said:


> First of all thanks a bunch for your effort. As you suggested, I pluged my headphones into the headpohone out on the volume console of the 2.1System and yes, distortion is there as well.
> I tried the RCA Pre-Out on the Denon Amp, but I wasnt able to get Sound.
> 
> To sum up: Setting is always 100% Windows Volume.
> ...


 
 Odd are you using stock or uni drivers, stock has an issue at 80-100 volume but your headphones should have gotten that too?


----------



## MrHeadphone

rvcjew said:


> Odd are you using stock or uni drivers, stock has an issue at 80-100 volume but your headphones should have gotten that too?


 
 Im using stock drivers. Just tested my headphones on the Stx Rca again and it sounds fine. So when my headphones connected directly to the STX RCA have no distortion, that means that there is nothing wrong with my soundcard, right? What do you mean stock has an issue at 80-100? Didnt know about that.
  
 Eventhoguh I dont have enough knowledge to back this up, but my explanation would be that the preamp of the STX is simply too strong for the 2.1Amp to handle. Because the Denon Amp has more watt, and better quality, I guess thats why the STX sounds fine even on 100% volume.
  
 My conclusion would be, that neither my soundcard or my 2.1 system is broken. Correct me if im wrong.
 Thank you again for your time and ideas.


----------



## rvcjew

I would agree with that the question is how to fix the problem.


----------



## MrHeadphone

rvcjew said:


> I would agree with that the question is how to fix the problem.


 
  
 The solution would be to keep windows volume below 60% and turn up 2.1System Volume.
 But there is another question i have about volume:
  
 In general, what is the better volume balance, keep soundcard low and amp high or other way around?
  
 EDID: Is there another way you know of to fix this problem?


----------



## rvcjew

mrheadphone said:


> The solution would be to keep windows volume below 60% and turn up 2.1System Volume.
> But there is another question i have about volume:
> 
> In general, what is the better volume balance, keep soundcard low and amp high or other way around?
> ...


 
 Normally you have volume all the way up on the stx so that it is at line out volume, then you use the amp for volume.


----------



## WeirdChild

Settled at *DUAL SOIC LME49990 *for a while and now I just took the plunge and ordered 3 Dual opamps from Burson (V5 model), will post a review once I get them running.


----------



## spidermad

I've just installed these and been really happy so far.


----------



## WeirdChild

*This is not review per se. This is a short story...  *






 Hi!

 Been a happy owner of the Xonar SXT for some years now. Was really impressed from the first time since it gave life to my old crappy set of headphones, but I wanted more joy, so  almost right after I got the card acquired a nice set of headphones that have been my main drivers since then (Sennheiser 650HD). I was all happy and rediscovering the music I love and such. One day while reading thoroughly this thread took I the plunge and ordered 3 DUAL SOIC LME49990 DIP8 opamps to upgrade my the STX. Once again I was impressed.

 Settled up for long time and totally forgot about improving the sound, you know, work, travels, life and other everyday issues kept me busy. I still enjoyed the sound and had a lot of fun for sure. So after a while, life became more easy going, more steady (so did work), and had the need to invest into better sound gear. So yeah, I bought my first headphone amplifier and was mesmerized by the great improvement. Along acquiring a tube amp comes the urge to improve it with better tubes (some of you can relate) and so I did, got into rube rolling and once again, results were there!

 One day I was thinking of getting a new DAC, was looking into some models, calculating budget, etc. Then I looked at my long time friend, the STX and thought of getting those weird looking op amps I once read about, the old Burson ones. So I emailed Burson and said I wanted them for my card, they answered and said they had a new, improved and more compact model that fits better into the STX.

 Took me a day to decide whether to get them or not, I always had the option to buy an external DAC, but I am emotionally attached to the STX, then I said, let's upgrade this fella!
  
 So I took the plunge and ordered 3 dual op amps for the STX, the reasons I did so were:
  
 -Life time warranty.
 -Same as above, whenever I feel it is time to replace the STX (not soon) and buy an external DAC that has the option to roll op amps I can move the Bursons there. 

 Hope you are not bored by the rant yet, so let's look at some pictures: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
*Picture 1: *_Location of the LME49990._
  

  
*Picture 2: *_Burson Supreme Sound Opamp V5 in the case they came with. Banana for scale._
  

  
*Picture 3: *_Another comparison picture._
  

  
*Picture 4: *_After removing the Xonar STX from the case I knew of course, the shield from the card wont be needed anymore so I put it away in a safe location. Then I installed one V5. _
  
  

  
*Picture 5: *_So now we have the 3 op amps installed in the card. Easy stuff. Things looking good so far._
  

  
*Picture 6: *_Top view. Double checked the op amps were installed in the right position. One concern before install... I was wondering if I had enough space inside the case, my STX in the far bottom slot... Even though the V5's are not that tall once installed in the card the whole thing is takes more vertical space than an average video card...so let's see what happens._
  

  
*Picture 7: *_Wow, that was close. Had enough space to keep the STX in that slot! Of course you can always move your card to another slot, but in my case, I did not want to. So yeah, pretty good by now._
  

  
  
  
*Overall Results:*

 -Music sounded clearer.
 -Separation of instruments very much improved.
 -Instruments seem to have better, more real mass (hard to explain) and of course an improved sound stage.
 -More layers of sound?
 -I don't recall that song having that instrument.
 -More enjoyable experience.
 -Going to keep the STX for a long time. 
  
  
  
*Final thoughts:*

 I am very happy with my purchase. Justified purchase buck by buck? Depends on how much you want to push the STX. But surely the Bursons do their job and help you take your card to a next level. But do not let your wife know how much these little things cost. LOL. 
  




  
English is not my first language. 
  
 Cheers.


----------



## y0d4

rjm003 said:


> Yes, those should do.
> 
> By the way, about the NE5532/4, it's worth noting that these are recommended by default in the datasheet for the IV stage as being guaranteed to reproduce the datasheet performance figures for the DAC. Don't let the low price put you off, they are very good for general purpose audio.


 
 Hi rjm003, i successful replace like you said and ... sound is little "dirty" compare with stuck, but to be honest i like it more then original, because bass is more massive which i like it.
 Voices are richer, only high freq. are little "stolid", but don`t care, general i am satisfied with this change.
 thank you one more time! 
 BR.


----------



## saddleup

@ WeirdChild.  Thanks for the review and photos.


----------



## xPakrikx

weirdchild said:


> *This is not review per se. This is a short story...  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice
  
 I plan buy this oamps as my christmas gift for myself , now i use original oamps. But i must use extension cabels for dip8 :| custom made 10cm . I have Jonsboo C3 case and Asus v gene MB , sound card use last PCI-E stol , there is no space  .
  
 Hmmm my girlfrend knows how much these things cost, and now, i am little kid, for her 
 but she understands it.
 maybe


----------



## WeirdChild

xpakrikx said:


> Nice
> 
> I plan buy this oamps as my christmas gift for myself , now i use original oamps. But i must use extension cabels for dip8 :| custom made 10cm . I have Jonsboo C3 case and Asus v gene MB , sound card use last PCI-E stol , there is no space  .
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi! I have a somewhat large case but all the other slots were not available. But in your case the extensions will work good! I was just kidding, my fiancee is very supportive of my hobby, how can she not be? She enjoys music as much as I do. In fact she is a better judge than me, I like it when she says "Oh that song sounds much better now". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yes, we are like little kids! Hope you get them by christmas, or whatever you want to get, the thing like I say is to enjoy life more, if music is a big part of your life, so be it. And like I said, I am happy I am sticking to the STX and it deserved a this great upgrade.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## x3dnd3x

How does the V5 opamp sound?


----------



## diforce

How does the STX perform with low impedance phones such as Fostex T50 RP ? they are 50 ohms. 
  
 also does changing the OP AMPS to better ones actually makes it better ( aka it was tested on proper testing equipment )  or is it all audiophile voodoo ?


----------



## verde57

Opams, shore do make a difference. The ST/X goes well with low impedance headphones, with high imp. ones they loose "fullness" of sound.
 Also a big, big difference in sound quality(precision, details) is achieved by modding the crystal oscillator, just like it is showed here somewhere with the big Vanguard quartz.


----------



## PurpleAngel

diforce said:


> How does the STX perform with low impedance phones such as Fostex T50 RP ? they are 50 ohms.
> 
> also does changing the OP AMPS to better ones actually makes it better ( aka it was tested on proper testing equipment )  or is it all audiophile voodoo ?


 
  
 I used headphones from 32-Ohm to 600-Ohm, with my Essence STX.
 So 50-Ohm headphone is fine.
  
 From my under standing, headphones like the Fostex T50P are not as picking about the output impedance of the source (amplifier).
 Replacing the two JRC 2114 (I/V) with LME49720 is a low cost way of trying different op-amps.


----------



## diforce

Thanks for the help, have some final thoughts before getting me a STX card. 
  
 I'm using windows 10, Should I get the original Asus drivers package or get that UNi Xonar drivers ? 
  
 If the UNi Xonar drivers are better , should I get the normal package or the Low DPC latency package ? 
  
 Will be using only my modded Fostex T50RP ( 50 ohm's , so gain should be at normal right ? ) for music and gaming , for gaming I would like to have the option to mimic some sort of surround sound via software , does the UNi driver supports that ? 
  
 Also , please suggest a good OP AMPS upgrade that will not break the bank  
  
 Oh and almost forgot , my PC has a rather noisy GPU card radeon R9 270x with something like 45 fans. 
 Could I wrap the STX in some magnetic interferance isulating wrap ( that yellow thing? ) ? would that be wise ? or should I worry about heat ? the PC case is ventilated very well , or should I wrap certain areas that are prone to pick up magnetic interferance only ?


----------



## Maquis22

Hi, new user and STX owner here. I've been reading things about leaving the volume at 76%. Is this necessary when you're using the SPDIF output? Or is it best to leave everything at 100%?


----------



## PurpleAngel

diforce said:


> Thanks for the help, have some final thoughts before getting me a STX card.
> I'm using windows 10, Should I get the original Asus drivers package or get that UNi Xonar drivers ?
> If the UNi Xonar drivers are better , should I get the normal package or the Low DPC latency package ?
> Will be using only my modded Fostex T50RP ( 50 ohm's , so gain should be at normal right ? ) for music and gaming , for gaming I would like to have the option to mimic some sort of surround sound via software , does the UNi driver supports that ?
> ...


 
  
 I always use the Unified Xonar Drivers, my guess is the guy(s) behind the Unified Xonar drivers can include updates to the software a lot sooner then Asus, with their software.
 If there might be an electrical noise issue inside your computer case, then you might consider getting something like the low cost Asus Xonar DG or DGX sound card and an external (optical input) DAC and headphone amplifier.


----------



## PurpleAngel

maquis22 said:


> Hi, new user and STX owner here. I've been reading things about leaving the volume at 76%. Is this necessary when you're using the S/PDIF output? Or is it best to leave everything at 100%?


 
  
 I think if you can set the PC/STX volume setting at 100%, without any issues, for using S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) then great.
 Otherwise setting it to around 76% is almost as good.


----------



## lucianpescaru

maquis22 said:


> Hi, new user and STX owner here. I've been reading things about leaving the volume at 76%. Is this necessary when you're using the SPDIF output? Or is it best to leave everything at 100%?


 
  
 76% default is really 100% digital so leave as it is or it will distort on louder tracks.


----------



## Maquis22

purpleangel said:


> I think if you can set the PC/STX volume setting at 100%, without any issues, for using S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) then great.
> Otherwise setting it to around 76% is almost as good.


 
  What issues would those be? I have had it set to 100 for a while and haven't noticed anything major.


lucianpescaru said:


> 76% default is really 100% digital so leave as it is or it will distort on louder tracks.


 
  
 Really? So which volume control should be 76? There's the speaker icon in the system tray, the Audio Center and then there's my music player.


----------



## lucianpescaru

I no longer have the card, the wave volume in audio center should be left at default. Windows volume to 100%.


----------



## mindbomb

yes, the default mixer values correspond to full output. The other thing I noticed is that if you do plan on using dolby headphone, you actually should lower the system volume to prevent clipping. It can get to like +10db for a 5.1 signal and +14db for 7.1. So you'll want to stick to a windows volume of around 50% or 40% respectively or lower.


----------



## cdelucia

Maybe a dumb question, but has anyone ever modded the STX to have the op-amps installed in the bottom of the card? Basically the way the card installs on the motherboard has the top side (with the metal cover) facing the bottom of the computer case. Has anyone tried unsoldering the op-amp holders and re-soldering them to the other side of the card? Reason I'm asking is I just purchased an STX II and was entertaining the thought of getting some Burson SS v5's for it but I also have two graphics cards - one of which is directly below the STX II. Basically there's no way I'd ever have room enough for the SS v5's (~1-1/4" tall) due to my mobo layout w/ graphics cards. So, there's always the option to use a PCIe extender along with a special bay mounting bracket to put the card in the 5-1/4" bay area of my tower (and have cables coming out the front of the case) or install the card in my top most PCIe slot and have to re-jigger the op-amp mounts to have SS v5's sticking up towards my processor - there'd be enough room that way.
  
 Also realized the pinout for the op-amps would be mirrored, if I'm not mistaken. Man, this really isn't a great idea. . .


----------



## PurpleAngel

maquis22 said:


> What issues would those be? I have had it set to 100 for a while and haven't noticed anything major.
> 
> Really? So which volume control should be 76? There's the speaker icon in the system tray, the Audio Center and then there's my music player.


 
  
 If there are no issues with the PC audio set to 100%, then I guess there is no issue.
 I believe the STX main volume control and the PC's main volume control are locked together, so it might not matter which one you use.


----------



## WeirdChild

x3dnd3x said:


> How does the V5 opamp sound?


 
  
 Sounding better each time after 100+ hours of use.


----------



## cdelucia

Well, I don’t know if it was the prospect of a long weekend or the turkey, but I did my “not-so-great” idea and attempted to desolder the DIP8 holders from my STX II and re-solder them to the opposite side of the card. This then allows room for attaching Burson’s SS v5 op amps; given the total lack of room below the sound card with my current dual graphics card configuration.
  
 In order to make this work, you have to take into account that the pin-outs on the other side of the sound card will be reversed (pin 1 is where pin 8 should be, pin 2 is where 7 should be, etc.). To correct for this I ended up buying several blank bread boards from Radio Shack (yes, some are still open) and tried wrapping my head around exactly how to do the switcheroo.
  
 Of course the first step is removing the current DIP8 sockets from the sound card and re-soldering them to the other side of the card. Desoldering the bracket pins pretty much destroyed them, so thankfully Radio Shack had ready replacements available. This proved to be the most difficult part of the project, and I was a more than a little worried that I’d created shorts during the re-soldering of the brackets.
  

  
  
  
 Due to the miniscule size of the DIP8 bracket pins and my lack of soldering skills I ended up using 22 gauge solid core copper wire with standard insulation. I created 8 legs for each op amp module (obviously); each leg is 5/8” long with 1/8” of insulation stripped away. This stripped area is just pressure fitted into the Radio Shack DIP8 socket – no solder. The leg then bends to the opposite side of the socket and then bends upward to meet the pin of the DIP8 bracket that came with the SS v5’s. After having bent each leg into this shape (3 x 8 = 24 legs!) I then carefully pressed and removed a sewing pin into the upward portion of each leg to create some room for the bottom pin of the SS v5’s bracket. Again, this connection was simply pressure fitted as well – no solder. I realize this isn’t “best practice electronics” but the solder was just rolling off the joints and causing the insulation to shrink, possibly causing a short due to the close proximity of the legs.
  

  

  
  
  
 I eventually got each leg attached to the SS v5 socket. A little tidying is done to get the legs roughly in a row and then it’s time to plug one side of legs into the DIP8 socket on the board. Needless to say, needle-nose pliers are a necessity. Once one side is in, the challenge is getting the other side in to their individual sockets without disrupting the original side. With some patience and a few breaks I was able to get all three brackets ready before dinner.
  

  
  
  
 I then popped in the secondary op amps that came with the card and shoe-horned the card back into its position in my case (did I mention I have a water cooling loop w/ two graphics cards?). I basically made sure everything is connected and in its rightful place, fired up the system, and plugged in the headphones to the STX II. I must stress again how poorly the removal of the original brackets went (had to use a sewing needle heated by the soldering iron and press down with a lot of force to clear the sound card’s contact holes), and attaching the replacement DIP8 brackets to the card wasn’t much smoother either. I wasn’t about to power everything on and have the SS v5’s go up in smoke – the loss of the replacement op amps I could stand. Yes, I realize that would probably mean the card is forever ruined too, but why lose $$$$ when you can do some risk mitigation and merely lose $$? To my relief everything sounds alright. Checked out the left and right channel jacks as well – those sound good too. Quite a relief. Downed some very-berry pie (sorry, no pumpkin this year) to celebrate.
  

  
  
  
 Last step was popping out the replacement op amps and plugging in the SS v5’s. Thankfully the replacement amps came out much easier than the original ones that come with the card. The SS v5’s in their place, I close everything up and start the 100 hours burn-in.
  
 Anyone who knows anything about electronics will tell you the way I attached the wire “legs” to the top DIP8 socket is far from ideal. Solder has been around for a long while and is used for a reason: longevity of the electrical connection, as well as providing _some_ structural support. That being said these circuits aren’t going for a bumpy ride in a car, nor are they shouldering mission critical communications on the lunar lander module, so I guess I get a passing grade on this one. Not much better though. Maybe if I had more time to think this through and the #@$%@# solder would actually adhere (even used some flux – to no avail) I’d have something that wouldn’t make an electrician smack his forehead in disgust.
  
 Sorry for this tome of a post, but I’m pretty thrilled at what I’ve been able to pull off. I guess I just wanted show that it can be done. And can probably be done better by anyone other than me! Enjoy your long weekend.


----------



## saddleup

Well done sir!


----------



## Soriordan

Mind showing us the rest of your computer? I'm seeing an EKWB and must see more haha


----------



## Burson Audio

Adding in the extra 0.1uf MKP bring out more micro details and improved top end smoothness. A worthwhile upgrade with simple soldering required.
  

  
 More details please see here: http://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-essence-stx-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/
  
 We are also selling this card via our eBay shop now


----------



## cdelucia

Any word on what the AC and DC voltages should be on those 0.1uf MKPs?


----------



## vegards

Burson Audio,

 Does the 0.1uf MKP capacitors come with if you buy the V5 Op-Amps? Do you have a higher resolution picture of the soldering?


----------



## lucianpescaru

vegards said:


> Burson Audio,
> 
> Does the 0.1uf MKP capacitors come with if you buy the V5 Op-Amps? Do you have a higher resolution picture of the soldering?


 
  
 I don't think they're included. The MKP caps as far as I can tell can be 30vac/50vdc (5mm pitch that's important) they won't see more than 12vdc anyway and they're soldered to the 2 opamp decoupling caps, the 2 headphone amp caps and the 2 output rca coupling caps. From my modding experience bypassing with MKP on the OPA caps degrade the sound quality somehow but the headphone amp and the output ones benefit from bypasses.


----------



## cas33

Does anyone have experience in these burson vs Muses01+02 in I/V slot?


----------



## funkisound

I want to give some impressions/thoughts on the Essence STU, the external dac/amp that is more or less based on the STX, and also compare it to the STX II. Before I bought it (a week ago), I didn't know what to expect, because while there's reviews out there there isn't any mention anywhere on how it compares to the STX cards (only vague mentions of how it compares to the Essence One).
 So I figured there might be more people wondering the same thing. You always hear about the E1, but almost never about the STU, which costs somewhere between the STX and E1, but just like the E1 is a USB dac. Reviews do mention the STU on the inside is pretty much an STX with slight improvements, and that's what I expected. However, I was surprised that the sound quality was actually a good step up from the STX II, which I used before this for nearly a year. (I'll simply call it STX now so I don't have to add the "II" every time.)
  
 First of all, it's not a "huge" difference by any means (the STX of course already sounds very good), but for music listening imo it's definitely another step up in sound quality. The difference? Well, the sound is cleaner, for one, so I think it's more pleasing to listen to. Music also sounds less distant that on the STX. Mainly I just think that music sounds more real and natural, with a less distant sounding soundstage (but better depth to the music) and cleaner sound. So overall I think it's a pretty good upgrade from the STX.
  
 Anyway, those are my initial thoughts, who knows more might follow later. I might wanna add that I only used the headphone out so far, and used the same opamps while comparing (LME49720). Also, I haven't used for example the Essence One or any other DAC/amp that competes in the STU or E1 price range, so I don't know how the STU fares against those, so I'm simply comparing to the STX.


----------



## funkisound

By the way, the price is also important, and I think the price of the STU over here is I think much less than in the U.S., so whether this is worth it or not also depends on the price.
  
 I got it for 300 euros, and for that price I can definitly recommend it, seeing that the STX is almost 200, and the STU (1) has better SQ, and (2) is an external device, nice looking too I might add (and no chance of random noises due to interferance, and can be used with PC, laptop, windows, mac, pretty much anything with USB).
 I think I can recommend it for even twice the price (around 400) of the STX, if you already like the SQ and sound signature of the STX. Of course, from 400 euros and on it's tricky as there's bound to be a lot of strong competition there (also you get pretty close to the price of the E1).


----------



## kire101

Ive checked the forums via the search feature and haven't found much on this. So if anyone knows the answer that'd be great!
  
  
 Does anyone know if this sound card can output to two difference sources at once, primarily speaking of the headphone out on the back and the RCA/Phono/Stereo out at the same time?
  
 Ideally I'd like to have my headphones plugged into the headphone slot on the back (DT990 Pro's) - but ALSO have the same sound coming out via the Stereo Out Phono jacks on the back at the same time. . The reason being I want to send all my audio also to a secondary PC since I do online twitch streaming. - I currently just use a FiiO E10 which allows me to use the headphone jack on the front with my DT990's and output the same sound simultaneously via the Line Out 3.5mm on the back to my 2nd computer. 
  
  
 Also, if that isnt possible, does anyone know how much sound quality would be lost via using a Y splitter?


----------



## cdelucia

I use an STX II in Windows 7 (x64) and I'm sorry to say it can only output one (RCA _or_ headphone) at a time. It _can_ however simultaneously output to the SPDIF. Of course you'd be using a coaxial or Toslink line from the SPDIF port, so that's something you'd have to take into consideration.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kire101 said:


> Ive checked the forums via the search feature and haven't found much on this. So if anyone knows the answer that'd be great!
> Does anyone know if this sound card can output to two difference sources at once, primarily speaking of the headphone out on the back and the RCA/Phono/Stereo out at the same time?
> Ideally I'd like to have my headphones plugged into the headphone slot on the back (DT990 Pro's) - but ALSO have the same sound coming out via the Stereo Out Phono jacks on the back at the same time. . The reason being I want to send all my audio also to a secondary PC since I do online twitch streaming. - I currently just use a FiiO E10 which allows me to use the headphone jack on the front with my DT990's and output the same sound simultaneously via the Line Out 3.5mm on the back to my 2nd computer.
> Also, if that isnt possible, does anyone know how much sound quality would be lost via using a Y splitter?


 
  
 I believe the Xonar control panel only allows you to use one output at a time, from the STX.


----------



## bcschmerker4

kire101 said:


> Ive checked the forums via the search feature and haven't found much on this. So if anyone knows the answer that'd be great!
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this sound card can output to two difference sources at once, primarily speaking of the headphone out on the back and the RCA/Phono/Stereo out at the same time?
> ...


 

 Thanks for the installation question.  I reckon ye meant up to two _loads_ at once from the XONAR® ST/STX/STX II (two sources mean simultaneous inputs from the Mic In/Line In jack, Aux In header, and Wave digital input signal).  Sorry, hardware safety situation here - the XONAR® Essence™ series uses relays off the AV-100 DSP/controller to direct output signal to one of the Line Out jack(s) via the buffer dual-audio-amplifier IC ("2 Speakers"), the headphone jack via the integrated Texas Instruments® TPA6120 headamp ("Headphone"), and the internal Intel® High Definition Audio™ header ("Front Headphone/Front 2 Speakers"), so, unless one of the developers at the Advanced LinUX Sound Architecture Project managed to incorporate multiple-simultaneous-load output control into the snd-virtuoso driver, no, multiple simultaneous loads would not be possible.  To my knowledge, C-Media® incorporated only the output switching originally requested by ASUSTeK Computer for the XONAR project into the CMI-8788 Drivers for Microsoft® Windows® 6.n and 10.0 (used in the MaxedTech® UNi™ XONAR® Audio Software™ suites).


----------



## Michael V

I read somewhere that using the front left+right rca ports with the 2in1 adapter on the STX is better than using the headphone jack since the SNR of the rca ports is 124 vs 110 of the headphone jack. Can anyone chime in?


----------



## PurpleAngel

michael v said:


> I read somewhere that using the front left+right rca ports with the 2in1 adapter on the STX is better than using the headphone jack since the SNR of the rca ports is 124 vs 110 of the headphone jack. Can anyone chime in?


 
  
 You want to connect headphones to the STX's headphone jack.
 And connect studio monitors (self powered speakers) or amplifiers to the STX's RCA line-output jacks.
 Not sure where (or why) the 2 in 1 adapter fits in this issue?


----------



## rjm003

y0d4 said:


> Hi rjm003, i successful replace like you said and ... sound is little "dirty" compare with stuck, but to be honest i like it more then original, because bass is more massive which i like it.
> Voices are richer, only high freq. are little "stolid", but don`t care, general i am satisfied with this change.
> thank you one more time!
> BR.


 
 Sorry for the long delay getting back to this.
  
 I think you nailed the sound perfectly. Dirty but enjoyable, weighted to the lower midrange / midbass.
  
 Yesterday I switched the output op amp briefly back to the LM4562 (DAC I/V still 5532) and confirmed that the balance does indeed shift up dramatically to the upper midrange, being dryer and harder. Not my thing at all. I remain quite satisfied with the 5532, my only remaining complaint with the STX is really not the op amps but the power delivery (regulation) which I feel holds back that last 10%. What missing is the real high end sense of _presence _you can feel with the best audio sources.


----------



## tkoreaper

cas33 said:


> Does anyone have experience in these burson vs Muses01+02 in I/V slot?


 
 Yes, I've used the Muses02 and I can tell you that the Bursons are better... similar in sound, but better. Either one is a great choice though, you can't go wrong.


----------



## x3zsp

Hey guys, since Christmas I own a STX II (hdav 1.3 before) and also since back then I preying the net for improving the sound quality further more (Muses 02 are laying next to me).

I found something interesting in a hifi tuning store: a customized powersupply that loads a NiMh rechargeable batterypack which actually supplies the DAC/Preamp. Plesse take a look at the picture/link. The key benefit of this is that all the current supplied is clean by principle and must not be expensively cleansed (although I dont think this will be cheap either).

Please tell me what you think of this? I'm eager to hear your thoughts.


http://www.hoer-wege.de/bilder/phono3_offen.jpg
http://www.hoer-wege.de/phono-v3.htm


----------



## bcschmerker4

x3zsp said:


> Hey guys, since Christmas I own a STX II (hdav 1.3 before) and also since back then I preying the net for improving the sound quality further more (Muses 02 are laying next to me).
> 
> I found something interesting in a hifi tuning store: a customized powersupply that loads a NiMh rechargeable batterypack which actually supplies the DAC/Preamp. Plesse take a look at the picture/link. The key benefit of this is that all the current supplied is clean by principle and must not be expensively cleansed (although I dont think this will be cheap either).
> 
> ...


 

 Concerning upgrades for the XONAR® Essence™ Series, our fellow Head-Fi'er @raymond555 gave us information on the Sparkos® SS3602 discrete dual operational amplifiers, currently the cleanest, fastest available for those who can afford them for the I-V (@PurpleAngel has them on or about $80.00 per JEDEC DIP-8 module):
  
 http://sparkoslabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SS3601_SS3602.pdf
  
 The SS3602 is also usable for the line-level buffer, but some have acceptable results with the old Signetics® NE5532 dual audio amplifier in the buffer position.  Sorry I cannot help with the Hör-Wege® modular audio system, but I haven't encountered it before.


----------



## xPakrikx

In this short post Im gonna try to describe my feelings about my STX + Burson V5-OPA-D and what mods I have done on STX. 

 I am a very happy owner of speakers EVE audio sc205, which I bought in 2015. Before them I was using M-audio BX5 D2. After short time I started to think about upgrade of my STX, because of new speakers of course  After quick search i found couple upgrades possible, like:

 - change OP amps in din8 socket
 - upgrade crystal oscillator
 - change caps in LP filter
 ...

 In first step i chose to change OP amps, its less invasive to PCB and the simplest way to improve sound. In the beginning i tried to obtain MUSES 02, but without success, only one shop sell this OP amps in my country (Slovakia), pretty high price for shipping .... Ok then i try buy some on aliexpress, fake of course, but for extremly low price.
 Fake MUSES 02 sounds dull,thick, inaccurate bass with messy layering. After this "test" with fake MUSES i increase budget for OP amps and start looking for Burson discrete AP amps. In november I finally decided to buy Burson V5-OPA-D2. I took “Head-fi Hot Topic Deal” for $180USD inclusive of postage + after communication with burson i got extension legs for free. Very friendly and helpful communication, thanks for this to Burson.

 After installation i had problem with EMI from PSU. Soundcard was very close to PSU and unfortunately i have m-atx MB (asus maximus v gene) and two-slot GPU + tiny pc case (Jonsboo C3).
 To solve this problem i got idea to customize original EMI shield, photos bellow 


 How does Burson V5-OPA-D sound?
 - much better separation in mids
 - very clear and natural sound
 - much better dynamics
 - very clear heights
 - significantly improved precision and deep bass
 - beautiful sound stage and stereo imaging
  
  
 Some photos  from my "mod".
  

  

  


 In final step i fix dip8 sockets to EMI shield ... next time
  
 Thanks Burson  sounds perfect


----------



## alej16

hello. im sorry that i write this here , i try to create new thread in computer audio but cant do it for some reason ..
  
  
 i have xonar stx for a long time now , and yesterday i upgraded PSU , everything was ok after that i watched some ytube videos and no problems was found
  
 so today i start the pc to listen some music with foobar (line out with amp and speakers) and notice that my right speaker is way louder than my left speaker , u cant hear left at all unless u mute right speaker .
  
 so i thought there is something with volume control , then i checked and all was fine . then i reinstaled drivers for STX same problem .
  
 so next thing was to check all the connections maybe there is something wrong all was fine i even try with diferent power cable but the problem was still there .
  
 next thing was to try headphone out and there is no problem with volume , left and right channel is same volume .
  
 so i took the card out and for the first time took the shield off and noticed that one of the opamps was a bit out of its socket and i thought that was the probelm so i pushed it in all the way but that didnt make any difference , then i swaped two of the op amps since they are the same and that didnt help also...
  
 i really dont know what to try anymore , card seems to work with headphone out normaly but with line out left speaker is very quiet
  
 maybe some of u guys can help me here i really dont have money for new card at the moment .


----------



## xPakrikx

Hmm, ok then problem is after filtering , check output power from RCA, with voltmeter


----------



## alej16

quick update
  
 i just found a spliter from 2x rca to headphone jack and it works normal with this cable so RCA output is OK
  
 it seems something is wrong with my NAD amp after all hmm .


----------



## xPakrikx

yop  or speakers


----------



## alej16

well.... everything is back to normal yay 
  
 after finding that RCA is ok i put everything back to normal and started playing with amp.
  
 we all know that NAD amps maybe are not best build quality etc. i have 326 model
 and looks like the potenciometer for balance is acting a little turned him left right few times and seems that worked lol .
  
 heh even electronic can have bad day sometimes


----------



## phaenius

Hi guys,
  
 I recently bought an Asus Xonar Essence STX card from ebay.de. The seller assured me that the card was "nearly new" and fully working, modded with new OP-AMPs and all, but when I got the card, it only worked on digital level. On analog (the value of this particular sound card) I could only get a very low and distorted sound on line-out and no sound at all on headphones output. So, basically I got scammed. Now, I know that many of you will suggest to throw away the card and buy a new one, presumably a STX-II, etc., but if I would have had that much money, I wouldn't have bought an used one in the first place. So, my question is if anyone has any suggestions on what to do in order to repair the card and if it can be done. I gave the card to person I know, who's very good in electronics and he told me that the power supply section of the card, the one that is giving current to analog section of the card is messed up. He already found a fried PolyZen chip, but I would like to know if you have any more suggestions of what I may do. Also, some schematics would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Sometimes the op-amps come lose, did you every try pushing on them to make sure they are well seated?
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the STX?


----------



## phaenius

I disabled the on-board sound, the sound card IS recognized by computer. And no, OP-AMPs are fine, I even bought new ones (yes, I installed them correctly).


----------



## beepover

ady1989 said:


> Hello everyone, first time poster here! I've had the Essence STX for a long time now and I am not satisfied with the sound I'm getting through my HD595's. It's decent, but I feel like it could be better. The bass feels lacking and muddled while the highs seem too harsh. I had a very ghetto setup dedicated to my headphones, including an old Sony receiver and it seemed a bit better. That being said, I am content with what I'm getting out of my speakers but there's always room for improvement! Can someone please recommend some Op Amps that are best matched with my setup? Thanks a ton!
> 
> *Xonar Essence STX --*> custom RCA cables -> NAD C730 Stereo Receiver -> Polk TSi 500 towers and Polk 8" sub
> --> Sennheiser HD 595 w/ soundstage mod




hd595 lacking bass...not the stx...get better headphones...i have the 595...great sound no bass


----------



## koaly

Hello everyone,
  
 I would ask for an advise.
 I've got Essence ST on Ebay for a bargin price. I've managed to install it (Asus Sabertooth FX 990, Win 10x64) and the driver works well. There is an issue that the sound is somewhat slower by 50% in every Windows application. All headphone / RCA / SPDIF outputs work the same. If I switch between outputs (front / rear headphones) in the Asus app I hear clicks from the soundcard. Is it normal?
 I've noticed that when I switch the frequency to 44.1 kHz it gets a liitle faster. Asio driver makes no difference. It's not an issue of the motherboard as I just removed M-Audio PCI card that worked well.
 I've noticed certain signs of very bad quality soldering on the card by previous owner(s). Looking at the pins with extra solder it seems that they installed another oscillator. The original oscillator has no marking on it and very rude solder on its both sides as well as on one pin of 7805. Capacitors that are installed right after opamps have shortcuts on the other side of the pcb.
I appreciate getting your ideas whether the oscillator can cause the issue or anything else.


----------



## PurpleAngel

koaly said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I would ask for an advise.
> I've got Essence ST on Ebay for a bargain price. I've managed to install it (Asus Sabertooth FX 990, Win 10x64) and the driver works well. There is an issue that the sound is somewhat slower by 50% in every Windows application. All headphone / RCA / SPDIF outputs work the same. If I switch between outputs (front / rear headphones) in the Asus app I hear clicks from the sound card. Is it normal?
> ...


 
  
 Is the on-board audio disabled the BIOS?
 Sometimes active on-board causes issues with an add-on internal sound card.
  
 My Asus Xonar Essence STX use to make the click sound.
 But I stopped using the STX a few years ago, so memory might be a little foggy.
  
 Have you tried the Unified Xonar Driver?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## koaly

Hi PurpleAngel,

Thanks. Yes I've disabled Azalia (Realtek) in Bios, deinstalled its drivers and updated the Xonar driver to the last Uni version. No change unfortunately. For the moment I see the only one solution - to buy Vanguard thing and try to replace the default oscillator, because the card had signs of such an upgrade. I just thought if anybody has an idea of what hardware element could influence the slow sound?
Here's what I found on the PCB


Spoiler: Photos


----------



## phaenius

koaly, did the seller notified you he made modifications to the card ? How much did you paid for it ? Maybe you are covered by ebuyer protection.


----------



## phaenius

Can't find a way to edit my last post, so I add another one. The clicks are a relay working. It's a protection, it's normal.
  
 Edit: "Now" I found the pencil for editing posts. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sorry for the double post.


----------



## Rainjam

Hey rjm003,
  
 I've been using the stock Essence STX for a few months now and after reading your posts about the opamps, I ordered those NE5532's. Not that there is much of a difference to notice, but that had to be expected.
 Now I'd like to replace the capacitors. Is there some sort of orientation for soldering them? 
  
 Hope for your feedback. RJ


----------



## koaly

phaenius said:


> koaly, did the seller notified you he made modifications to the card ? How much did you paid for it ? Maybe you are covered by ebuyer protection.


 
 thanks for the hint. I would like to repair the card. The question is not in returning money. I have noticed that two SMD capacitors are missing on the PCB next to the clock generator. Seems that the previous owner de-soldered them for some reason. Could it be that the missing capacitors cause the slow tempo of the sound? I have ordered a couple of 15 pF.capacitors at Mouser. Will try at least. The Vanguard oscillator is also on the way. I expected to get an advice here


----------



## phaenius

You can follow my problem with one card also bought from ebay, just previous page. I bought it in good faith, as it was described as fully working and "as new", but when I got it, it got very distorted sound on the analogue side. I tried to return it, but both seller and ebay rallied against me and I was lucky that a friend managed to repair it. It was a fried polyzen and we also replaced a PWM controller and a +12V stabilizer as a caution.
  
 Your card was sold as modded or default, standard manufacturer release ? It's a matter of preference, but I like the stock one, as released by ASUS. I even replaced the modded OP-AMPs I got in my card with default ones. I don't know why you are missing the original clock generator and the capacitors as I believe those were put there by ASUS engineers with a reason. But I don't get it. Is your TEMPO slowed down or the sound output level is decreased ? Why would anyone want to temper with the clock ? What gain you could get from this ? Sorry, I can't help you more, as I'm not a specialist. Good luck in repairing the card.


----------



## rul3s

Hi People, i'm new to this forum 
  
 I've recently buy a Xonar STX and I'd like to know if there's a option to have conected my speakers and headphones at the same time, don't need to hear both at the same time, just switch between by software/drivers.
 Before I was using the mobo integrated soundcard and an aditional Xonar DSX, headphones in DSX and Speakers on mobo, and switching between by windows, but now i'd like to use STX for both and dont need to plug and unplug 3.5 jack every time.
  
  
 There is a way to do what I want?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## phaenius

> Originally Posted by *rul3s* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'd like to know if there's a option to have conected my speakers and headphones at the same time, don't need to hear both at the same time, just switch between by software/drivers.


 
  
 Who's stopping you ? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 STX offers different outputs for line out and headphones. You plug your amplifier to the RCA socket and your headphones to the headphones socket and there you go. You switch between the two from inside the STX Audio Center. From the "Analog Out" pull-down menu, you select either 2 speakers or Headphone. It's very easy and intuitive.


----------



## rul3s

phaenius said:


> Who's stopping you ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Impresive! Thanks you a lot! 
  
 Can I ask you a last question? What drivers do you recommend me, last from asus website or UNi Xonar with Asus Control panel?


----------



## phaenius

You're welcome. It's not impressive, it's very intuitive. I personally use the latest UNi Xonar Drivers http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/ but I also tried the ones from Asus official page and work as well in my case. You can give it a try on both.


----------



## rjm003

rainjam said:


> Hey rjm003,
> 
> I've been using the stock Essence STX for a few months now and after reading your posts about the opamps, I ordered those NE5532's. Not that there is much of a difference to notice, but that had to be expected.
> Now I'd like to replace the capacitors. Is there some sort of orientation for soldering them?
> ...




They are film type, the orientation doesn't matter. You just replace the four original ones with new ones in the same position.

I don't claim it made any difference, but it doesn't hurt.

The more time I spend with the stx the more I like it. Both the output and inputs are very low noise and low distortion. The headphone amp is good but the line outs can do better.


----------



## Rainjam

Thanks, will try that as soon as they arrive.
  
 For the price, the card's been great. And even if I'll upgrade to an external amplifier later, the line outs still suffice as a dac.
  
 RJ


----------



## recepky

Hi everybody
I have the STX card for the long time (over 2 years) with stock op amps and upgraded master clock.
I want to upgrade the op amps. I am after lush, warm and smooth midrange with a little bit rolled of trebles(without completely losing them). I also dont need extra powerfull bass. Actually i am using the card mainly with KEF ls50 speakers. Sometimes i use HD600 headphones. What op amps do you suggest me ?


----------



## Rainjam

Hey,
 I recently installed texas instruments NE5532's, they're not very expensive (~6€ for five) and deliver the kind of sound you're after. (Look up rjm003's post, he described them as "warm, rich, lush" (p.346))
 RJ


----------



## recepky

Hi
 I will buy NE5532AP for both IV and buffer stages, but I also want to order AD8620 for IV stage and LME49710HA matal can opamps.
 Which model should I buy there are more than 10 results when search on the MOUSER for instance "AD8620" ? can anybody help to find exact part?
 Thanks


----------



## koaly

Hi guys,
 i used two irons for de-soldering the original oscillator at ST card. But somehow the contact plates got out of the PCB. The card seem to be twicked by the previous owner and I assume he damaged the PCB contact plates.
 I hope there is still a chance to connect the oscillator via a wire to the place on the PCB that get a line from the damaged connection plate. Please advise


----------



## phaenius

Anyone having the problem with sound entering a "loop mode" when using ASIO drivers ? It's very annoying. It works ok with WASAPI, Direct Sound, Wave Out, etc., but, randomly, on ASIO mode, it enters a mode where a short sample is repeated indefinitely until you stop the player. I am using JRiver Media Center 20 player and UNi drivers. Thanks.


----------



## shadowlord

I moved my xonar essence st to a secondary music system, where it would be really helpful if both, RCA line out ( on the back) and front panel line out, could work simultaneously.
 Playback software is foobar2k.
  
 Unfortunately i can only alternate between back rca, headphone and front panel in the control center drop down menu.
  
 anyone here knows a workaround for this ?


----------



## Rainjam

As far as I know there is no workaround. The outputs on the STX get switched with relays, that's the clicking noise you're hearing. Thus the other outputs that are not in use get muted.
 RJ


----------



## recepky

Hi guys
I replaced all of my stock op amps with NE5532s. And applied rjm003's capacitor upgrade in the IV stage. These NE5532s are very cheap op amps but the result is not very cheap. Actually I now understand how important the op amps in this card. Sound is improved in every way. Bass become tight powerful amd impactful. Trebles are very detailed and there is no sign of harsness. Mids are very clear and lush warm. Sound stage from left to right is now razor sharp. 
I can clearly say that before buying any expensive op amps everybody "must" try NE5532. also you can apply @rjm003 capacitor upgrade in the IV stage if you have good soldering skills. 

These are my subjective comments based on my stereo system. Not through headphones. Still didnot try these opamps with my HD600.


----------



## recepky

One last comment: music is now less fatiguating compared to stock op amps. Actually stock opamps are terrible after hearing NE5532s IMHO.


----------



## bcschmerker4

@recepky Glad the Signetics® or equivalent NE5532's worked out; I had them shortlisted for my Asus® STX' line-level buffers (with Sparkos® 3362's in the I-V where op amp performance is critical) before I read of a regression in the audio stack in Microsoft® Windows® 10.0.x and pulled the STX for a Creative Laboratories® SB1550, which the 6 kHz scream turned on and off by OS events is not currently known to afflict (see also "Xonar Essense stx Random LOUD high-pitched Ringing Noise?").  I've a contingency for a review of the SB1550, which has to run alongside the EAH6850 DirectCU® in my Asus® CM1630-06 as upgraded due to the way the expansion slots are laid out on the stock M4A78LT-M LE.
  
*Update:*  As of 2 April 2016 I have the STX running in my hot rod LinUX box under Ubuntu® 16.03b2, and I have availability of all inputs, with gain control and selectable boost on the Mic In, in ALSA; the Aux In is a fixed-gain input consistent with some switchers used in home stereo.


----------



## Unclewall

NE5532s are way better than stock Im using opa2134 which is a big improvement over both


----------



## wrists

Hi, I got the Xonar Essence ST and Sennheiser HD650, using foobar2000 for music.
  
 What settings do you recommend for kHz? I just noticed I got some tracks with 48khz and 24bit but most are lower (44.1khz/16bit). Should I use 48khz at the driver (I use uni drivers) and windows settings anyway or 44.1?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Set sample rate at 48K, in the ST control panel, should cover you for any music files (or 99% of them).


----------



## Unclewall

use 24 bit 48k in control panel it sounds better to me 
 The best sound I am able to get out of this card is to use ASIO to use go into settings in F2k File - preferences go to playback tab - output tab and select asus ASIO driver


----------



## wrists

Ok thanks, and Unclewall: I dont have this option, Im using WASAPI there sometimes, though


----------



## eXistencelies

Hello, 
  
 I have been using this card close to two years. I game with it 99% of the time and then listen to music with it the other 1% haha. I was wondering if upgrading the amps as mentioned above will make the sound better? I have this card paired with AKG Q701 headphone. I am wanting a tighter bass. I did the mod on the headphones by removing the sticker inside the cans. Would I notice a difference by upgrading the op amps? Also if so how many do I need and I am assuming they are solder only or are they removable without solder?


----------



## PurpleAngel

existencelies said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have been using this card close to two years. I game with it 99% of the time and then listen to music with it the other 1% haha. I was wondering if upgrading the amps as mentioned above will make the sound better? I have this card paired with AKG Q701 headphone. I am wanting a tighter bass. I did the mod on the headphones by removing the sticker inside the cans. Would I notice a difference by upgrading the op amps? Also if so how many do I need and I am assuming they are solder only or are they removable without solder?


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the Essence STX card?
  
 Have you tried the Unified Xonar Drivers?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 The STX comes with 3 dual channel op-amps in 3 slots.
 The stock op-amps are just pushed into the slots, no soldering needed
 Two JRC2114 op-amps in the I/V (DIP-8) slots, which are used for the headphones and line-outputs (RCA jacks)
 One LM4562 op-amp in the buffer (DIP-8) slot, which is used for line-output (RCA) only.
 So all three op-amps are used when the STX is set for line-output (speaker) and just the two I/V are used when the STX is set for headphone output.
  
 Replacing the two JRC2114 with two LME49720NA ($4 each?) is one of the cheaper way for trying to improve audio quality.
 Not sure what op-amps can be used to improve the bass
  
 Some op-amps are dual channel (DIP-8) and some are single channel (SOIC).
 The JCR2114, LM4652, LME4920NA are all dual channel op-amps
 So to use the SOIC op-amps, two SOIC op-amps need to be soldered to a Dual SOIC to DIP-8 adapter.
 Once the two single channel op-amps are soldered onto the adapter, the adapter can be just pushed into the slots on the STX.
  
 You might consider replacing the AKG Q701, with the (Massdrop) AKG K7XX headphones, for more (better?) bass.


----------



## eXistencelies

Are the K7XX just a Q701 with pads? Aren't they the same drivers? I also have my speakers hooked up to my mobo sound. They are the cheap logitech 5.1 speakers. Only have headphones and mic plugged into soundcard. I figured I would try out the new op amps to see if I notice any difference. It isn't expensive.


----------



## PurpleAngel

existencelies said:


> Are the K7XX just a Q701 with pads? Aren't they the same drivers? I also have my speakers hooked up to my mobo sound. They are the cheap logitech 5.1 speakers. Only have headphones and mic plugged into sound card. I figured I would try out the new op amps to see if I notice any difference. It isn't expensive.


 
  
 Read here about the AKG K7XX
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/the-akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-thread


----------



## CVLover

So im about to Recap my card this week/weekend. im going to use the Elna Silmic II caps 220uf 100v caps and Mundorf EVO Silver Gold Oil 0,1uF 650V as "MKP" cap parallel to the silmic II on the back side of the sound card. i was wondering if this would work ok together and what improvements i should/will experience. i talking about the output stage of the card. i have the Burson Audio Supreme Sound V5 OP-Amps installed and made i big difference in sound quality!


----------



## Voxata

The Burson V5 opamps made a MASSIVE difference with my card. I was honestly ready to upgrade from the STX on my HTPC, however, that won't be happening now.


----------



## topcat888

Can I just ask, does changing the opamps have any affect on the digital output or is it bypassed when using the spdif output..?


----------



## PurpleAngel

topcat888 said:


> Can I just ask, does changing the op-amps have any affect on the digital output or is it bypassed when using the s/pdif output..?


 
  
 The STX's op-amps (analog) have no effect or involvement in the card's digital outputs.


----------



## topcat888

As I thought, thank you for confirming that...


----------



## Voxata

If you plan to use optical put you're bypassing the STX entirely. Its a great dac for the money. That's my primary use with it, goes into my home theatre 2chan setup.


----------



## scruffy1

purpleangel said:


> The STX comes with 3 dual channel op-amps in 3 slots.
> The stock op-amps are just pushed into the slots, no soldering needed
> Two JRC2114 op-amps in the I/V (DIP-8) slots, which are used for the headphones and line-outputs (RCA jacks)
> One LM4562 op-amp in the buffer (DIP-8) slot, which is used for line-output (RCA) only.
> So all three op-amps are used when the STX is set for line-output (speaker) and just the two I/V are used when the STX is set for headphone output.


 
  
 new to this forum, but a long term user of a pair of xonar hdav 1.3's for myself and my daughter's desktops ; ttbomk the xonar stx and the hdav have the same layout wrt the 3 opamps
  
 i have already upgraded the buffer amp to in both to a (2x mono to "single dual") opa627 which improved the sound quite noticeably
  
 recently i got the itch on trying the new burson V5i, a pair of which will soon arrive and usurp the opa627 positions, and will report here on my experiences (and my daughter's thoughts) once they have settled in
  
  
 however, having digested the above information, a few questions on the op amps i have to play with, and whether the following ideas are not a good idea, or useful experiments :
  
 firstly, V5i in the buffer, and replace the pair of jrc2114's with the liberated pair of dual opa627's  ?
  
 secondly, v5i in the buffer and the earlier liberated LM4562's in the i/v slots to replace the jrc2114's ???  is there any sort of likely benefit to be had ?
  
 and finally (though less likely as i am greedy for a V5i for myself), the opa627 left in the buffer, and the V5i's in the i/v slots - my daughter has a better desktop sound set up than me, so it would be in her rig for maximal benefit
  
  
  
 downstream from the hdav i am running a pair of klipsch 2.0, whereas hers runs through a topping t22 class t amp, and on to a pair of venerable but pristine wharfedale diamond 3's
  
 we both also use audiotechnica ath-ad700's, but in both cases they plug via the rca route - in my case into the headphone jack on the klipsch, in hers, via the front jack on the topping amp
  
 apart from the complication of an extra component channelling the rca to a headphone jack, they are similar routes
  
 i am most pleased for any erudite comment on the combinations of op amps proposed, as i am naive as to the best choices for the i/v slots, but well satisfied with the opa 627's i am using, and looking forward to hearing the bursons +/- a little bit more tweaking once i get used to them
  
 thanks in anticipation
  
 cheers


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Out of curiosity has anyone had the Burson OPA V5 duals do damage to a STX 2 as of yet? My last STX 2 completely burned up right after I started using them and they were never placed into it improperly. My sound system was a STX 2 coupled with a Klipsch Promedia 2.1, a Astro A40 headset and a V Moda M-100 set.
  
 Edit: I brought this up with Burson however, I never had issues when I was running two OPA V5 D's in the right and left slots and a Muse 8920 in the I/V slot. They sent me a V5i to try and replaced the others that burned up which I am very thankful for. However that STX 2 is gone and I am hesitant to redo this build with a 2nd STX 2.


----------



## scruffy1

it's a tight squeeze to get the V5i into the buffer socket in the asus xonar hdav1.3, but with some gentle "encouragement" if seats well after making sure the adjacent components give it some space
  
 the metal cover / faraday cage fits over the applied op amp with a little head room - my cover already has a paper adhesive "pad" which used to be my ersatz insulation for the naked dual opa627 which stretches about 7.8mm above the buffer socket (some 0.2mm taller than the encased V5i), because it was really close to if not quite touching the 'cage
  
 i was immediately impressed by the improvement over the opa627 solution, so much so that i have been feeding back to back flacs to the klipsch 2.0's since i first re-sealed the computer, which by my clock is now over 9 hours straight apart from a brief break for dinner, where it was still playing in the study off the dining area
  
 perhaps despite the above poster's experience, there was a short somehow ? 
  
 jon, did you use the buffer slot with the V5's ?  or was it the i/v slots ?
  
 and can you confirm it was the V5 and not the V5i ?
  
 for the record, the dual V5i in the buffer slot on my xonar hdav1.3 has been without issue used continually immediately after placement for over a third of a day thus far; my only complaint is that i have been unable to drag myself away from the desk chair because i am spellbound
  
 when i eventually stop exclaiming "no way ! "  and "you're kidding ! !! " from repeatedly hearing details i never even knew were there despite this system being the 3rd best combination of audio components in the house (until the upgrade), i'll attempt to give a coherent description of the things i am enjoying about it
  
 but i'd best get some sleep first, if i can detach myself


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I was using 3 OPA V5-D's originally, now I'm using two OPA V5 D's and a V5i (I decided to go ahead and try the combo after replacing my STX 2.) The interesting thing is the V5's only suffered damage when I was running my Klipsch Promedia 2.1 over the RCA jack. This happened twice before my last STX 2 was damaged


----------



## scruffy1

could there be a current leak from your 2.1's ?  i am a noob when it comes to electrickery, so don't even know if that's a possibility
  
 my hdav is also ported from the rca plugs (not that there's a lot of other choice),and as noted, is completely well behaved
  
 how long into use did the stx get toasted ?


----------



## AllYourFort

Hi guys. So I got my STX 2 in the mail a few days ago got it in my system. It is by far the best sound card I've owned! The sound is leaps and bounds above the on board. I am using the DT 990 Premium 600 Ohm they sound amazing. It's a pleasure playing the new Doom with good sound. I have just a quick question about what I should set my sampling rate to. I have it set to 192 khz currently.


----------



## scruffy1

allyourfort said:


>





> I have just a quick question about what I should set my sampling rate to. I have it set to 192 khz currently.


 
  
 i had mine set at 44.1 because that was the sample rate of the flacs i was playing, but only yesterday discovered that perhaps because of the better abilities of the upgraded buffer amp that 192 sounds decidedly better
  
 my guess is that the best setting is entirely up to where it sounds best to you, as there is probably no "correct" setting, just options to see what does it best for you


----------



## scruffy1

*how to fit the burson (dual) v5i opamp in xonar hdav or xonar stx sound card*
  
  
  
 here's how it fits   ....just
  
 pardon the detail, but this is included for the benefit of those who may not have done this previously
  
 a reminder that you need the *burson v5i dual opamp* for this situation, or any other dual opamp you might choose that is compatible with the specs required
  
 please note that you modify your card at your own risk; my enthusiasm to have you enjoy an upgrade needs to be weighed against your potential disappointment if you somehow nuke your previously lovely sound card
  
 that would be sad, but it won't be my fault, will it ? so as long as we have that understanding...
  
 i presume anyone rocking a xonar is familiar with pci-e slots and fitting cards, but if not, get some assistance or do some reading
 as always, you need to power down and safely remove the xonar, noting the ancillary molex needs to be unplugged too - take the usual precautions re static discharge
  
 undo the 4 small screws holding the cover / faraday cage, noting that they can strip their mounting holes easily, and you may need traction on the cover to make them screw out easily - gently but firmly does it
 and put them somewhere safe - not just on the bench, from where they will migrate mysteriously to your utter frustration at the end of replacing the opamp; a small bowl or equivalent is fine
  
  
 okay, ready for the rather simple but slightly more nerve wracking part if you are new to this :
  
  
 take your hdav 1.3 (or an stx), noting the "blue" dual opa627 is in the buffer socket - easier to see the colour in the closer view
 the original amp supplied in that spot is marked (LM)4562NA
  

  
 yep, that's it there, with all those white things labelled "8n2 100" snuggling up cosy
 you need to pull it out - purists have a tool, but i have fingers which do fine with the dual opa627; but i think i recall using a bios chip puller for assistance when i took out the original buffer amp, as it hasn't got the same lip to grasp, a small screwdriver or a spudger will help - a thin guitar pick is good
  
 if you choose a screwdriver, don't slip and gouge the traces or the only sounds you'll hear thereafter may be profanity
  

  
  
 the v5i is marginally less high above the socket than the opa627 is when seated, but it's definitely wider
 trying to get it to fit between those white protrusions takes a little persistence
  

  
  
 looking "along" the socket you will note the slight slant you'll need to impose on the components
 they move pretty easily with a firm grip, courage and one gentle tweak...  but i suggest you shouldn't wiggle them lest you break their legs
  

  
  
 and in goes the v5i, taking note of the notch under the v5i to confirm orientation with the notch of the socket (facing the camera, as easily seen in the photo above)
 even though the opamp looks uneven below, it seems quite firm and refuses to sit under the level of the right sided components - it is however quite properly seated
  
 i have now replaced the buffer in both my xonar hdav cards with the v5i - both fit as shown, and most importantly, both are working fine despite the minor apparent asymmetry - closer inspection above (and below) reveals that the vertical obstruction is marginally closer on the side nearer the pci-e connectors
  
  

  
  
 don't forget to screw back on the cover / faraday cage before you re-mount the card in your computer, and also to plug back in the molex and your rca's
  
 then boot up, sit back, and enjoy your new improved audio experience
  
  
 hope that helps instil confidence, because apart from the minor jostling for seating space, it's an easy job


----------



## eXistencelies

So I have owned this card for 2 years and have really enjoyed it, but I am going to be doing a custom PC water loop and having this card inside my case may ruin the aesthetic look I want to have. So I have been tinkering with the idea of going to an external amp/dac. This SC powers my AKG Q701 and ATH M50x. Anyone here have any suggestions on an external amp that will be the same quality to the SC? I'd also like to keep dobly, but that may not be possible I don't think? So if I can find a good external amp/dac that doesn't break the bank I will be selling my card here or over on reddit's hardware swap.


----------



## scruffy1

why not the external version of the same card ?
  
 https://www.asus.com/au/Essence-Hi-Fi-Audio/Xonar_Essence_One/


----------



## eXistencelies

scruffy1 said:


> why not the external version of the same card ?
> 
> https://www.asus.com/au/Essence-Hi-Fi-Audio/Xonar_Essence_One/


 
 Well crap. Did not know they made this lol. Will def look into. Basically it is the same as the STX, but external? On second thought that thing is way over priced and out of my budget.


----------



## scruffy1

there's a less expensive version, but compared to the stx or hdav, it's way more $
  
 but bear in mind you get an integrated power supply and knobs and switches, which a card won't need that add to the total cost
  
  
 maybe this might suit you instead ?
 http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_d1
  
 still not cheap now that the oz $ is flat, but was cheap early last year...


----------



## eXistencelies

scruffy1 said:


> there's a less expensive version, but compared to the stx or hdav, it's way more $
> 
> but bear in mind you get an integrated power supply and knobs and switches, which a card won't need that add to the total cost
> 
> ...


 
 See if I was going to spend that much I was just going to go with the Schiit M/M Stack.


----------



## cdelucia

*Status Update on My Op-amps Coming Out the Bottom of an STX II Modification*
_Original mod can be found on page 349 of this thread (post #5233 http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread/5220#post_12113600 )_
  
  
 As proud as I was to fit an STX II with Burson Audio's towering SS v5’s op-amps into a fully loaded computer tower, I found myself hearing what can only be described as "wind" (transient static, I guess) and some occasional popping when I would crank the volume all the way up on my Little Dot Mk III headphone amp (attached to the STX II's RCA jacks) - without playing any music/sound of course. This was a kind of litmus test to see how good the signal really was, though I’d never have the Little Dot amp cranked that loud when actually listening through it.
  
 A couple months after my modification some "wind" started to creep in whilst listening to music. There'd also be the occasional click or pop. Soon I was opening the side panel on my tower and nudging the op-amps to eliminate this; it'd work for an evening but I'd have to readjust them a couple days later. Of course you know how it goes – it started happening even more frequently. After a while it was a question of how loud the problem would get.
  
 It's obvious now that my horrible wiring job was just that – horrible:
  

_As you can clearly see_
  
  
 Essentially wires from the bottom connector weren’t making satisfactory contact with the leads on the top connector, and/or I was getting cross-talk. I’d essentially just stuffed the leads from the top connector into the wire insulation – that’s it. Something had to be done and eventually I broke down and bought Burson Audio’s op-amp extensions and got to work.
  
  
  
 I started by cutting through the clear heat-shrink tubing, then de-soldering the leads of the top connector off.
  

  
  
 To make the connections in the right order (again you'll note I have the op-amps coming out the bottom of the card) I bent the wires to opposite sides.
  

  
  
 Now's the time to find the smallest heat shrink tubing available, cut to length, and slide them on.
  

  
  
 Now the wires are bent up.
  

  
  
 Next I used the top connector to measure how much wire I'd need to mate with the adjoining contact. After marking the length, I cut the wire and then carefully stripped (as best I could) the proper length with an X-acto knife.
  

  
  
 I then put some flux on and tinned each of the top connector leads.
  

  
  
 Time to solder! I did all four contacts on one side, pushed the heat-shrink tubing up onto the newly soldered leads, then did the same with the other side. The vice grips and ceramic coaster were indispensable.
  

  
  
 Finally, I used a candle to activate the heat shrink tubing.
  

  
  
  
  
  
 Victory was mine – no more “wind” when listening to silence with the volume cranked all the way up.
  
 It was a fight to make the extensions as short as possible, but even then there was a tendency for them to slowly lean towards one side or the other thus pulling the bottom leads of one side slightly up out of the card's op-amp socket. Since I didn't want to be in the tower again after a couple of months (“Uggghhhh!”) I decided something had to be done about it now. Enter the brace:
  

  
  
 Using 1/8" x 1/8" strips of styrene and some calipers for measuring, I was able to make a brace, or pedestal if you will, for each op-amp. The styrene members are glued together with super-glue (Cyanoacrylate). They simply stand on the top side of the card snugly under the op-amp, fitting around its extension. It took a bit of sanding to bring each brace to the correct height as the extensions are of slightly differing lengths despite my best efforts. They may not be much to look at, but these things aren't going anywhere now.
  

_MUCH better!_
  
  
  
  
 It's been a month and no wayward static nor accompanying nasties have come creeping back! Soldered and completely insulated wires/leads are infinitely better than the terrible loose strands of wires I had before (that should come as a surprise to no one).
  

_This is bad. This is very bad._
  
  
 Some pointers:
 -     - When finished and fully assembled, the extension's bottom connector should be completely flush with the top of the sound card's op-amp socket. You shouldn't be able to see the copper contacts when looking at the base - just black plastic up against black plastic.
       - For peace of mind use a multi-meter to confirm each contact on the bottom connector not only sends current to its corresponding contact on the top connector, but also isn't sending current to any of the other contacts.
 -     - I had to use a pair of sharp, angled tweezers to push the heat-shrink tubing up around the bend of each wire.
       - You'll note I've connected a spare op-amp socket to the extension's bottom connector in some photos. This is ensures you understand just how tall the whole assemblage is going to be. It also ensures the vice grips don't crunch the extension's bottom connector; basically it's a sacrificial lamb of sorts.
       - It goes without saying when maneuvering/shoving heat-shrink tubing around the bends of these tiny wires a disorderly row of wires will be the result. Do all the maneuvering/shoving first, then you can nudge the wires back into a neat row using a pair of needle-nose pliers. It's disconcerting at first, but take your time and it'll work out in the end.
 -     - Needless to say, it’s imperative to have a well-lit work area, and a decent soldering iron.
  
 I should take a moment to thank the Penguins (hockey team here in Pittsburgh) for giving me something entertaining to listen to over the 'ol radio while stripping and soldering tiny, cantankerous wires. Probably saved my sanity on more than a couple nights.
  
 And yes, I now realize I have the top connector’s alignment notch facing the opposite direction from the bottom connector’s notch on the extension in the photo - still works the same though. Just when you think you've got all your bases covered. . .
  
 Alright, everybody enjoy the weekend.


----------



## rvcjew

Damn that's nice looking work right there Cdelucia. I only have the stock opamps at the moment and was thinking of going straight to the v5 bursons as I have the space to keep it on the front of the card. If I remove the EMI shield to do this on the front it's basically just based on user config of the case if interference is an issue? My case is a rectangle so the PSU is away from the sound card. I do own a dremel but would hate to cut up the stock shield.


----------



## scruffy1

just a heads up :
  

  
 burson produce extension leads for the task (4th item in the row)
  
 http://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/


----------



## rvcjew

scruffy1 said:


> just a heads up :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have the space to have the card just be like this and was just wondering if the card staying "naked" was okay or If I would need to plan to modify the shield to fit on it too.

 EDIT: seems others are already doing this with no issues.


----------



## mike5555

I have this card, is there a list where it shows witch op-amps I can use Or are there certain specs. I need to adhere to?
 And last of all are any of the Muses op-amps  compatible because I have several muses01, Muses02, Muses8820 and
 muses8920 I have a few of each and more.
  
 By the way I am new here as of tonight. I will have more questions later on different projects. This looks like a knowledgeable
 group!
  
 Thank you for your time and thank you!
  
 Mike Ward


----------



## fredeb

Excellent work there Cdelucia ! Amazing !
  
 Quote:


mike5555 said:


> I have this card, is there a list where it shows witch op-amps I can use Or are there certain specs. I need to adhere to?
> And last of all are any of the Muses op-amps  compatible because I have several muses01, Muses02, Muses8820 and
> muses8920 I have a few of each and more.
> 
> ...


 
 What I did is download the datasheets for the original opamps ( LM4562 and JRC 2114D’s ) and compare to a bunch of opamps I have .
  
 I'm trying 2x OPA2111KP's in the I/V stage and 1x LM6172 in the buffer stage - sounds really good . Good sound stage , powerful bass , clear mids and highs .
  
 I had 3x LME49720  before these and did detect some HF distortion , and before had 2x OPA2228 with 1x LME49720 - didn't like the sound of that either .


----------



## mike5555

Thank you very much this helps, I was a bit Leary to start changing chips and screw something up!
 Mike


----------



## Unclewall

mike5555 said:


> I have this card, is there a list where it shows witch op-amps I can use Or are there certain specs. I need to adhere to?
> And last of all are any of the Muses op-amps  compatible because I have several muses01, Muses02, Muses8820 and
> muses8920 I have a few of each and more.
> 
> ...


 
 If you know how to solder, I using OPA1662 soldered in a SOIC to dip8 adapter in I/V for headphone out and it outstanding. I think some of the newer op amps are a big improvement and plan or trying more soldering soic chips are much easier than I would have thought


----------



## fredeb

unclewall said:


> If you know how to solder, I using OPA1662 soldered in a SOIC to dip8 adapter in I/V for headphone out and it outstanding. I think some of the newer op amps are a big improvement and plan or trying more soldering soic chips are much easier than I would have thought


 
 I was looking at the OPA1662 , I sent a message to a guy in the States on Ebay asking if he'd be willing to send 2x OPA1662's on DIP8 adapters to South Africa . Slew-rate , THD+N , CMRR and PSRR all look fantastic .


----------



## Unclewall

I was quite surprised on how well it worked with my equipment STX ii and M-100 all the other op amps up till OPA1662 were good in some areas and some areas that were lacking. They are a lot better than stock op amps but kinda on the warm and to some on the dark side
 I might be able to help you get a set, pm me. The newer op amps are quite good but don't come in dip8 I'm going to try more in this series


----------



## mike5555

Another question, I see that everyone is replacing the two headphone amps and using a separate type of amp in the other socket.
 Is there an advantage or can you use the same amps in all three sockets.


----------



## Unclewall

STX has 3 opamp sockets 2 I/V and 1 buffer. The 2 I/V are used in all forms of output and buffer is used only when using rca out the headphone output uses I/V only. I mostly have experience with i/v headphone out but you can used all 3 the same op amps but it usually better to use a different op amp in the buffer


----------



## Voxata

The Burson Air I demo'd did one hell of a job if you're looking to go external dac/amp/pre amp. As far as the V5's burning up an STX.. I've been using them for a couple months or so with heavy usage and no issues thus far. The STX2 is identical pretty much to the 1, right?


----------



## barsh

Hi, i'm new to this forums. I currently have the original STX. Does any one know how can i upgrade the sound and which amps  get for better audio? Never upgraded amps on a soundcard before


----------



## fredeb

Just look back about 10 posts or so , and you should get a good idea . I'm using 2x OPA2111KP's in the I/V section  and 1x LM6172 in the buffer section and am loving the sound , good upgrade for the little money spent . Unclewall mentions OPA1662 soldered in a SOIC to dip8 adapter in the I/V section . OPA1662 being one of TI's latest greatest opamps - incredible specs . Many are raving about the 4 Muse opamps , which cost a lot more . I can highly recommend the LM6172 in the buffer section .
  
 For a whole lot more money ( and I mean a lot ) , you can go for discrete opamps - Burson , Sparkos et al ...


----------



## rvcjew

voxata said:


> The Burson Air I demo'd did one hell of a job if you're looking to go external dac/amp/pre amp. As far as the V5's burning up an STX.. I've been using them for a couple months or so with heavy usage and no issues thus far. The STX2 is identical pretty much to the 1, right?


 
 Did you get your V5's from this link? http://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-essence-stx-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/ I just did it and was wondering if you ever got an email with the tracking or they just showed up or if they no longer provide this discount and I should refund it and talk with them direct to purchase the V5?
  
 EDIT: Burson told me it is still in effect.


----------



## pr0cesor

Hi,
  
 I am a music producer and I just got the Xonar STX. Is it best to leave the settings on Default clean when making some beats or do I need to tweak something ? Anyone in this field knows maybe?


----------



## fredeb

pr0cesor said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a music producer and I just got the Xonar STX. Is it best to leave the settings on Default clean when making some beats or do I need to tweak something ? Anyone in this field knows maybe?



I'd personally go for clean settings , so as to have a decent idea of what your audience might be hearing .


----------



## rvcjew

pr0cesor said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a music producer and I just got the Xonar STX. Is it best to leave the settings on Default clean when making some beats or do I need to tweak something ? Anyone in this field knows maybe?


 
 If using the ASUS drivers and not UNI then go into xonar audio center and set it to hifi (turns off enhancements), then go your sound settings in windows for playback devices and configure the stx for stereo with full speakers, then go to the properties of the stx and set the advanced tab to 24bit whatever sample rate you want and you should be good to go.


----------



## pr0cesor

I don't see any advanced tab. Where can I find it ?


----------



## rvcjew

pr0cesor said:


> I don't see any advanced tab. Where can I find it ?


----------



## bcschmerker4

I've begun a contingency plan for upgrades to my STX:  For the I-V, I'm anticipating a shootout between the Sparkos® 3362 and Burson® V5i, using the stock LM4562N in the buffer position feeding the Pyle® amplifier and Radio Shack® speakers my station (I can upgrade the buffer at a later date if new external amplifiers and/or speakers warrrant).  But concerning the onboard oscillators, exactly what types are stock, and where on the card?  I'll need the data to determine what upgrade TCXO's will function, as the onboard heaters need a constant DC voltage supply.


----------



## bluex

I purchased the ASUS STX II, and i'd like to ask you guys, if it's worth to replace the op-amp ( the default one ) with Texas Instruments LME49720  / MUSES 8820
Does it make a difference, at all ? Are there any better om-amps, compatible with ASUS STX II ??
Thank you


----------



## Voxata

Huge difference, just take the plunge and get the V5s from Burson


----------



## bluex

Voxata, what do you mean with " huge difference " ?   Texas Instruments LME49720  / MUSES 8820 vs the default ones ??
The sound is very clear, i like it a lot, but i wish it should had a bit more bass / more power /
I don't know how to explain, my english is pretty poor
Thank you


----------



## funkisound

If you really want more bass you're better off changing your headphones/speakers for that - swapping opamps only really changes the sound signature a bit but usually nothing too dramatic like a big bass boost. Maybe you can use the equalizer in the STX control panel for that. And also, the STX' headphone output has a high output impedance so it's best to use it with high-impedance headphones (80Ohm or more) or they well lack bass.
 By the way, if you use headphones with the STX and want to swap opamps, you only have to swap the two opamps in the I/V stage for the headphone-out; swapping the 8820 (low pass filter stage) opamp won't make a difference for the headphone-out, it's only connected to the RCA outputs. The STX II should come with 2 x Muses 8920 and 2 x LME49720 for that, and the 8920s will probably give a less punchy and more natural sound. There's opamp swap guides for the STX on the internet (and this site), maybe you can google it if you wanna know which opamps maybe give a more bassy sound.


----------



## Unclewall

You dont need high Ohm head phones mine are 32 Ohm and work fine,
 I have a STX II and changing the op amps can have a big improvement in sound over the amps that come with the card
 If you want to improve Bass, sound stage and details you might want to try op amps in the TI Burr Brown line such as OPA 2134
 If you can solder you can use Burr Brown OPA1612 which Is one I like best so far but they need to be soldered in to adapters 
 If you you use the headphone amp you only need 2, But make sure you put the chips in the right direction other wise you will burn out the chip or your STX this also will happen if the wrong type of chip is used so stick with chips that are known to be compatible


----------



## Voxata

Well, the V5 added a lot of bass and power with realistic heft for me compared to the LME


----------



## bluex

So, the V5 will add more bass / power ? I hope i could notice a difference, with the V5 vs the default ones
 As I said, i use only the headphones Sennheiser HD600.
 One more question : would you recommend the UNi XONAR driver, for STX II ?


----------



## CVLover

it will increase the quality alot, the bass will be deeper and with more impact, also the soundstage is amazing on these. you will find yourself beeing able to play music at a louder volume because of the clearness. with the stock op amps its very sharp sounding at high volumes.


----------



## bluex

Okay, i will order the V5. Would you give me a link, please ?
 As I said, i use only the headphones Sennheiser HD600
 What exactly do i have to order ? And how many ? 1 or 2 ??
 Thank you very much


----------



## Unclewall

Burson Audio v5's are being recalled because they melt and I have heard  of a few STX line of cards damaged, Last I heard they werent for sale


----------



## bluex

where did you read this ?


----------



## Unclewall

bluex said:


> where did you read this ?


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier/5010#post_12610516
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/735828/gustard-h10-high-current-discrete-class-a-output-stage-headphone-amplifier/4275#post_12277319
  
 And on other forums 
  
 Last I heard Burson stopped selling V5's because they were melting and was giving a credit or credit and V5i's (V5i's don't sound as good ) don't know if they resumed sales
 Thanks I will pass


----------



## bluex

So, what else should i go for ? Any ideas ?
 Thank you


----------



## Unclewall

There is not a best op amp just like there is no best headphone, Everyone has different hearing and what they like and don't like
 Your previous post said that you have a STX II and wanted to get more bass and warmer sound like I said TEXAS INSTRUMENTS Burr Brown OPA2134
 http://www.newark.com/texas-instruments/opa2134pa/audio-operational-amplifier-8mhz/dp/74K3897
 is a good op amp to start with which comes in 2 channel dip8 which drops right in and costs $4 us each from TI authorized distributor dont buy on Ebay (Burson V5 are $70 each)  you need 2 if you use the headphone amp 
 If you know how to solder, the newer burr brown op amps are soic8 and need to be soldered to a adapter they are small about 1/10 the size of a dip8 chip but they are great sounding maybe I could help you with this
 I highly recomend the  UNi XONAR drivers in ASIO mode
 If you just bought the card it need 40 -50 hours at least to burn in


----------



## bluex

Thank you very much, Unclewall
 I will take a deeper look at this link
 Excuse me, but what do you mean with 
 " If you just bought the card it need 40 -50 hours at least to burn in "
 I tried many times to install the UNi XONAR drivers but i couldn't. Even in test mode, not a chance
 I did like here, as well
 https://www.raymond.cc/blog/loading-unsigned-drivers-in-windows-7-and-vista-64-bit-x64/


----------



## Unclewall

I the card is brand new you need to use it for 40 - 50 hours of use for it to break in and get the best sound out of it. 
 You could not get it to install did you uninstall other driver, disable on board sound if you have it, You get unsigned driver error? the FAQ on that site talks about that 
 Are you using STX II version not reg
 More power, what headphone are you using and how many ohm? what gain setting are you using


----------



## bluex

I uninstalled the ASUS drivers first, the onboard sound is disabled, and as I said, the same error, i can't install the UNi Xonar driver
 Yes, i'm using the STX II version
 My headphones are Sennheiser HD600, 300 ohm, gain settings - extra high gain 300- 600 ohm headsets
 I tried as well with SPDIF Out - PCM and without PCM, i couldnt notice a difference
 Underneath of PCM i have Dolby Digital Live, but when i try / test / this, there is no sound , only mute ...
 Whats the advantage with UNi Xonar driver vs the official one ?
 Thank you


----------



## Unclewall

Uni drivers have slightly better sound and work a little better if you can't get them working I wouldn't worry too much. Spdif out is a different type of output you don't need to use it. A good way of playing music is using ASIO to use it you need a music player that supports it such as musicbee which I use, it by passes windows and send sound directly to the sound card it has the best sound, Google ASIO and your music player


----------



## bluex

I installed UNi driver and played with the setting a bit, but i can't find the option for gain headsets ohm and Smart Volume
 Is there, any ?
  
 LE : what's the best setting for LFE crossover frequency ? I tried there everything, but i couldn't notice a difference


----------



## Unclewall

The smart setting and gain are controlled by the xonar control panel which should have also been installed 
LFE is for use with a sub woofer so not used


----------



## bluex

I will try today, to change the OP AMPS, but i don't know exactly which one is the buffer
  
 https://postimg.org/image/f6gt9ig1l/
 Does it matter if the soundcard is on the PCI ex4 instead x1 ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

bluex said:


> I will try today, to change the OP AMPS, but i don't know exactly which one is the buffer
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/f6gt9ig1l/
> Does it matter if the sound card is on the PCI ex4 instead x1 ?


 
  
 The Asus PCI-E sound card will work in the PCI-E X1 or X4 or X8 or X16 slot


----------



## fredeb

bluex said:


> I will try today, to change the OP AMPS, but i don't know exactly which one is the buffer
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/f6gt9ig1l/
> Does it matter if the soundcard is on the PCI ex4 instead x1 ?


 
 The 2 together are the I/V ( current/voltage ) stage , and the one on it's own , closest to the outputs is the buffer . The buffer only affects the RCA outputs ( amplifier and speakers ) , whereas the other 2 affect everything ( headphone and RCA outs ) .
  
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh250/fredeb777/HiFi/STX_II.jpg


----------



## bluex

I tried the new op amps, i still miss some bass
 Question : would something like this be ok, together with STX II ?
 http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/marantz/pm6005/mara-pm6005-blk


----------



## fredeb

bluex said:


> I tried the new op amps, i still miss some bass
> Question : would something like this be ok, together with STX II ?
> http://www.richersounds.com/product/amplifiers-receivers/marantz/pm6005/mara-pm6005-blk


 
 In which country do you live Bluex ? The reason I ask , is that I think you should look for  something 2nd hand , and at least 100wpc@ 8ohm for the same money the Marantz is going for . Whilst I'm sure the Marantz is a fine amplifier , it is only a 45 wpc amp . If you like bass and are looking at using the going standard in speakers ( 88-91 dB/w @ 1m ) , you're going to be disappointed . Good bass likes power  . 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252548138969?rmvSB=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222265330967?rmvSB=true
http://www.hifi-forsale.co.uk/moreinfo.php?prod_title=Quad_405_MK_I_Power_Amplifier&p=power_amplifier&prod_id=37893&offset=
  
  
  
 If you can , save up for this : http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/product-page/7311fc00-3eda-16fb-cd8d-a48863ca1bab
  
 Or ..... buy these and build it yourself :
  
https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=2287        2x these Class D amplifier modules 
https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=3140        1x Switch mode power supply
  
 The UcD400HG w HxR modules ( 400wpc @ 4ohm 200wpc @ 8ohm ) would be even beter .


----------



## bluex

I'm from Germany
 Someone recommended this :
 https://www.amazon.com/Micro-iCAN-SE-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01ARIQX3W
 What do you think, fredeb ?


----------



## fredeb

bluex said:


> I'm from Germany
> Someone recommended this :
> https://www.amazon.com/Micro-iCAN-SE-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B01ARIQX3W
> What do you think, fredeb ?


 
 That looks goooood ! I'd say go for it .


----------



## bluex

Would that add more " power " ?
 Not only bass, i mean more " life " to the sound....
 Thank you


----------



## fredeb

bluex said:


> Would that add more " power " ?
> Not only bass, i mean more " life " to the sound....
> Thank you


 
 That should surely knock things up a notch or two . The specs certainly look impressive , 4 watts to drive your headphones is pretty impressive .
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GUSTARD-H10-High-current-Discrete-Class-A-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-/111973434307?hash=item1a122303c3:g:Uv8AAOSw-dBTsq2M
  
 If you do get a dedicated Head Amp , and you're then using the RCA outs from the STX2 , be sure to try LM6172* *the buffer section , I like it a lot .
  
  
 Hopefully some other people will also offer advise regarding choosing an amp for your HD600's and what works well with them .


----------



## bluex

As I said, i purchased ASUS STX II, i love it when i listen music, way better than ZxR
 But for gaming, ZxR is the winner, no doubt
 Now i have both soundcards, i'd like to keep them both
 Is there an option to use them both with 1 single headphone ? I could select from the Windows Control Panel ZxR or ASUS, but everytime i have to unplug the headphone from ASUS - ZxR and that's a bad idea
 Some splitter / convertor / ?
 Thank you


----------



## fredeb

bluex said:


> As I said, i purchased ASUS STX II, i love it when i listen music, way better than ZxR
> But for gaming, ZxR is the winner, no doubt
> Now i have both soundcards, i'd like to keep them both
> Is there an option to use them both with 1 single headphone ? I could select from the Windows Control Panel ZxR or ASUS, but everytime i have to unplug the headphone from ASUS - ZxR and that's a bad idea
> ...


 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Input-Selector-Relay-Module-Board-4-L-R-to-1-L-R-Japan-TAKAMISAWA-Relays-/201062378205?hash=item2ed0406add:g:xngAAOSwFqJWjd2f
  
 Nice little DIY project for you - this device will mute output during switching , there-by avoiding damage to your headphones .


----------



## bluex

Do i still have to unplug the headphones everytime when i want to select another soundcard ??


----------



## Panagiotis

Hello to you all.

I purchased a few days ago three AD797BR opamps and installed them on my asus xonar essence st card. To my pleasant suprise they were playing excellent though one of the three didn't work and had to change it with another. 
To my next suprised one of the two remaining was burned giving away while playing... I realised then that the first had burned also. Both pf the two opamps gave up on the left iv channel position... I own my asus st card more than three years and never I never have had experienced such a thing. Is ad797br out of specs for st? Have you experienced something similar?


----------



## fredeb

panagiotis said:


> Hello to you all.
> 
> I purchased a few days ago three AD797BR opamps and installed them on my asus xonar essence st card. To my pleasant suprise they were playing excellent though one of the three didn't work and had to change it with another.
> To my next suprised one of the two remaining was burned giving away while playing... I realised then that the first had burned also. Both pf the two opamps gave up on the left iv channel position... I own my asus st card more than three years and never I never have had experienced such a thing. Is ad797br out of specs for st? Have you experienced something similar?




AD797BR is a single opamp , you need to replace the stock opamps with dual opamps that are pin for pin compatible . Study the datasheets of the stock opamps and find out what each of the 8 pins function is .

http://vakits.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/LM833.JPG


----------



## Panagiotis

fredeb said:


> AD797BR is a single opamp , you need to replace the stock opamps with dual opamps that are pin for pin compatible . Study the datasheets of the stock opamps and find out what each of the 8 pins function is .
> 
> http://vakits.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/LM833.JPG




I didn't put it the right way...
I bought them dual to mono on adapter board. Not the mono dip8 version.


----------



## Panagiotis

Anyway.... I bought them from a Chinese ebay seller for a very low price... Maybe I should have been more careful. Or not?


----------



## fredeb

panagiotis said:


> I didn't put it the right way...
> I bought them dual to mono on adapter board. Not the mono dip8 version.


aah ... I see ! I bought a similar setup where opamps where mounted back to front . In such cases one may look for pins 2 and 3 by using a multimeter to check input impedance , and then find pins 5 and 6 , which should have similar impedance . Once you've found pins 2 and 3 , pin 1 should be obvious


----------



## Panagiotis

Could you suggest some reliable e-sellers for opamps please?
  
 I know already the french.


----------



## fredeb

panagiotis said:


> Could you suggest some reliable e-sellers for opamps please?
> 
> I know already the french.


 
 I'm afraid that I really can't think of anyone to suggest , I take my chances on Fleabay , like you I guess .


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I still have not figured out why every V5 and V5i (I have gone through a total of 8 of them now) I have used has overheated using my STX 2. I have used 2 seperate STX II's for this as well (It has occured on both of them.) I made sure they were inserted the properly. Burson was kind enough to replace two sets of them. I decided to stop after the 2nd set. While they were working they were the best things I have ever listened to. I just do not understand why they were overheating.
  
 This was my first set http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii32/Zenairis/IMG_0218.jpg


----------



## fredeb

jonathan crouch said:


> I still have not figured out why every V5 and V5i (I have gone through a total of 8 of them now) I have used has overheated using my STX 2. I have used 2 seperate STX II's for this as well (It has occured on both of them.) I made sure they were inserted the properly. Burson was kind enough to replace two sets of them. I decided to stop after the 2nd set. While they were working they were the best things I have ever listened to. I just do not understand why they were overheating.
> 
> This was my first set http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii32/Zenairis/IMG_0218.jpg


 
 Did the guys at Burson not have any idea ? Voltage too high perhaps ?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

They weren't sure either. They gave me a V5i to test out in the slot that was having the issue the most which was the LPF slot. That one lasted longer but even it burned out after about 2 weeks of use. I really have no idea what's causing those to get so hot. The standard amps that came with it have not had issues even after months of use which I do not understand.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

One of the capacitors for that amp slot blew up as well. I attempted to fix it replacing the capacitor on my 1st STX II. It didn't work out unfortunately. Since then I have been using my 2nd STX II. The motherboard and power supply I'm using are an ASUS Maximus VII and a Corsair HX1000i. 
  
 Edit: The last set I tested was two V5-D's in the two rear I/V with the V5i-D in the LPF slot.


----------



## fredeb

jonathan crouch said:


> One of the capacitors for that amp slot blew up as well. I attempted to fix it replacing the capacitor on my 1st STX II. It didn't work out unfortunately. Since then I have been using my 2nd STX II. The motherboard and power supply I'm using are an ASUS Maximus VII and a Corsair HX1000i.
> 
> Edit: The last set I tested was two V5-D's in the two rear I/V with the V5i-D in the LPF slot.


 
 It may be the 2 in the I/V stage creating too much current and/or voltage for the next stage ( accumulative power ) . Was the soundcard volume set high when it happened ?
  
 You have an excellent motherboard and PSU , I doubt it has anything to do with them , probably an increase in power delivery that Asus made from the STX to the STX2 . Might be worth asking Asus support , so that others don't make the same mistake .
  
 I'm sorry that that happened to you .
  
 Ari


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

The volume was kept at 76% which is 


fredeb said:


> It may be the 2 in the I/V stage creating too much current and/or voltage for the next stage ( accumulative power ) . Was the soundcard volume set high when it happened ?
> 
> You have an excellent motherboard and PSU , I doubt it has anything to do with them , probably an increase in power delivery that Asus made from the STX to the STX2 . Might be worth asking Asus support , so that others don't make the same mistake .
> 
> ...


 
 The volume was kept at 76% which is the normal threshold for the STX 2. Although I have seen people upgrade the STX 2 with these and not have issues as far as I know. I will definitely consider asking ASUS though and see what happened. Although the I/V stages eventually burned out as well.


----------



## Panagiotis

Hello to all of you.

After reading this thread and through some advices of yours I ended up using for my asus essence st three ad797br dual to mono opamps. They were the best sounding for my taste among the below I bought and tested.

Opa2607
Jrc2114
Lme49720na
Lme4562
Jrc4556
Ne5532

The ad797br were a lot better in the bellow points.

Better stereo seperation better intrument imaging spacing and presence. Better high frequencies with clear presence and richer detail. Fluid midrange and very musical but not coloured. Great low frequency presence with very good aeticulation of notes. Better air ant transients.

System.
Audio Physic Scorpio II speakers
Pass Labs INT30A amp
Dedicated audio pc with ssd ans asus xonar essence st.

Now I'm thinking if it worth to go for audiogd earth opamps. 

No way for burson because of high cost.


----------



## Panagiotis

jonathan crouch said:


> I still have not figured out why every V5 and V5i (I have gone through a total of 8 of them now) I have used has overheated using my STX 2. I have used 2 seperate STX II's for this as well (It has occured on both of them.) I made sure they were inserted the properly. Burson was kind enough to replace two sets of them. I decided to stop after the 2nd set. While they were working they were the best things I have ever listened to. I just do not understand why they were overheating.
> 
> This was my first set http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii32/Zenairis/IMG_0218.jpg


 
 Is there a big sonic difference towards the burson opamps?
  
 I'm asking because the cost is great for a triad of them...


----------



## Voxata

The cost of the Burson opamps is worth every penny. Difference is great.


----------



## Panagiotis

Thanks for the answer. 

I have bought up to now some opamps and honestly the differences between them were subtle except of the ad797br which were quite better. 

The above experience I had has made me a bit suspicious on the amount of improvement in case I buy burson opamps.

Your comment is clear though on the amount of improvement.


----------



## PurpleAngel

panagiotis said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> I have bought up to now some opamps and honestly the differences between them were subtle except of the ad797br which were quite better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 AD797BR, liked having those in my STX card


----------



## scruffy1

panagiotis said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> I have bought up to now some opamps and honestly the differences between them were subtle except of the ad797br which were quite better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 i had previously upgraded the (LM)4562NA in the primary with an opa627, which was a quite distinct improvement
  
 then i put a single v5i in the primary slot, leaving the default (2x) JRC 2114D in the secondary slots as before
  
  
 the improvement was immense... even if you only replace the primary to save expense, you will be very happy... i have yet to consider replacing the secondaries, as i am happy enough as it now sounds to not let that genie out of the bottle


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

You will not believe the difference Burson's V5's make. I just use I knew why mine burned up.


----------



## Panagiotis

jonathan crouch said:


> You will not believe the difference Burson's V5's make. I just use I knew why mine burned up.





The burs on opamps burned or the card?

Which card you are using? St, Stx or Stx II?


----------



## Voxata

The rest of the OPAmps I tried were thin.. the Bursons had a lot of depth and meat added to the sound. Hope this helps.


----------



## Panagiotis

All of your comments are helpful.

My question had mostly to do with the level of improvement when using the burs on opamps. You see as I wrote earlier most of the opamp rolling I made had no significant amount of differentiation between the ones I used with an exception f the ad797br were change was slightly more noticeable. All this Mede me doubtful on the amount of change or improvement a discrete implementation such us the v5's would give me.

From your comments I realize that opamp installation of burson modules will give a huge difference that justifies their high cost. 

I'm also curious how would a dexa digital dual opamp perform on an Asus essence st or Stx....


----------



## scruffy1

@Panagiotis :
  
 i was impressed with the difference the opa627 (dual) made in the primary slot as my first upgrade - they are relatively cheap, so maybe that would be an easy trial ?
  
 if you think there is no difference to stock, then maybe either your other components (or your ears) need to change 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 for me, the opa627 made the bass immediately much more "tight' (as in , hearing distinct notes, and drum kicks rather than a blur of sub-sound), and the whole sound stage was wider and more "beautiful" - distinct without being too sharp (harsh) - i am uncertain how to realistically write about sounds as you need to hear them not read about them
  
 in any case, if the '627 isn't notably a major lift in quality for you, then maybe the bursons won't be either - but they were a marked step up from what the 627's did, and the '627's really opened my ears


----------



## Albert King

Hi, i am new to here and glad that here is a thread about the card.

I have an issue with my stx that there is hissy audible at 44.1hz sample rate.

But it can be fixed if it is switched to other sample rate.

My question is are there any solutions other than switching to other sample rate?

Btw，how about the stx II? Is the same issue fixed by asus?

Thanks for help.


----------



## PurpleAngel

albert king said:


> Hi, i am new to here and glad that here is a thread about the card.
> I have an issue with my stx that there is hissy audible at 44.1hz sample rate.
> But it can be fixed if it is switched to other sample rate.
> My question is are there any solutions other than switching to other sample rate?
> Btw，how about the stx II? Is the same issue fixed by Asus?


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the STX card?
 Have you tried the Unified Xonar Drivers?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 Not sure why you have a hiss with a 44.1K sample rate.
 Why not just leave the sample rate at 48k or 96K, can't see any reason why not.


----------



## Albert King

Hi Purpleangel，

Sure，the onboard audio was disable when installing the stx.

Regarding the hiss， some people mentioned before here in this forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/546291/white-noise-coming-from-my-essence-stx-from-44-1khz

But will the sample rate affect the sound quality?


----------



## PurpleAngel

albert king said:


> Hi Purpleangel，
> 
> Sure，the onboard audio was disable when installing the stx.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I do not think you will lose any sound quality setting the card for 48K.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

Hey guys- I got a STX 2 with a pair of dt 880's (600ohm ones)
  
 looking to swap OP-amps into one of the following configurations:
  
  
 1. 2x Muses01 1x Muses02
 2. 3x Muses01
 3. 3x Muses02
 4. 2x Muses02 1x Muses01
 5. 3x v5 burson
 6. some other combination using muses01, muses02, or v5/v5i burson 
  
  
 can someone with experience please comment on which setup will sound the best and how much of a difference there would be between muse01's, muse02's, and v5s
  
  
 Ive been searching/reading about this all day but it would be great to find someone who has a similar setup and has tried the variations


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Bursons are better than Muses. However, I've yet to find out what caused my STX 2 and it's V5-D's to burn up. So for now I cannot say if it's safe to use them in one since I've burned up one STX 2 and I've burned up amps in two different STX 2.
  
 Now from the Muses I use 2 8820 (Muse 02,) and 1 8920 (Muse 01.) I've found that it sounds better than 2 8920 and 1 8820. 


th2pun1sh3r said:


> Hey guys- I got a STX 2 with a pair of dt 880's (600ohm ones)
> 
> looking to swap OP-amps into one of the following configurations:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bursons are better than Muses for practically everything. However, I've yet to find out what caused my STX 2 and it's V5-D's to burn up. So for now I cannot say if it's safe to use them in one since I've burned up one STX 2 and I've burned up amps in two different STX 2.
  
 Now from the Muses I use 2 8820 (Muse 02,) and 1 8920 (Muse 01.) I've found that it sounds better than 2 8920 and 1 8820. 
  
 Edit: As I said I've tried 3 V5-D's, 2 V5-D's and 1 V5i-D. Both destroy setups completely destroyed anything I have ever listened to in terms of amps. However as was stated they quickly got hot and burned up in two separate STX 2's. Yet, I see plenty of other people doing it without problems. So I have yet to find the cause.


----------



## CVLover

my first stx 2 lasted about 4-5 months before i got popping in my right side on headphones, also on rca out. i wanted do change the capacitors and see if that made a difference. i dont have the skills to do so, so i bought 1 stx 2 used and that lasted 5 mins before i got the same popping, this time it destroyed my headset. i have very low sound in my right side like really low. if i set my mixer on 11% on my left channel and my right side on 100 its about equal in sound also the same on my phone :S so headset + 2 stx 2 toasted ;( sad


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

cvlover said:


> my first stx 2 lasted about 4-5 months before i got popping in my right side on headphones, also on rca out. i wanted do change the capacitors and see if that made a difference. i dont have the skills to do so, so i bought 1 stx 2 used and that lasted 5 mins before i got the same popping, this time it destroyed my headset. i have very low sound in my right side like really low. if i set my mixer on 11% on my left channel and my right side on 100 its about equal in sound also the same on my phone :S so headset + 2 stx 2 toasted ;( sad


 
  
 It probably was the capacitors because after I started using the V5's one of the capacitors on the buffer stage blew on my first one. I did research and replaced the capacitor but that still did not fix it. Heck I still have it sitting over here with the replacement in it.


----------



## CVLover

i was abit wrong.. have my left channel on 50% and right on 100. its weird tho.. hope caps will fix it or just forget about the stx 2 and move onto something better. because this is starting to be expensive


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

cvlover said:


> i was abit wrong.. have my left channel on 50% and right on 100. its weird tho.. hope caps will fix it or just forget about the stx 2 and move onto something better. because this is starting to be expensive


 
 I know the feeling after going through 1 STX 2 and 7 Burson V5-D's and 1 V5i-D. That's when I stopped experimenting. Roughly $500 in amps alone burned up not to mention the STX 2. Until I can find answers why they burned up.


----------



## scruffy1

jonathan crouch said:


> I know the feeling after going through 1 STX 2 and 7 Burson V5-D's and 1 V5i-D. That's when I stopped experimenting. Roughly $500 in amps alone burned up not to mention the STX 2. Until I can find answers why they burned up.


 
  
 did all this happen in the same pc ?  in the same slot ?
  
 there might be some regulation issue with the power supply - what are you using, and how old is the psu ?
  
 is it "fed" via a molex off the power supply, or is there an intermediate adapter ?
  
 fwiw i run two separate machines with the xonar hdav 1.3, and both have been flawless with burson v5i in the buffer slots - both have more than marginal power supply for the components (corsair hx650 and antec earthwatts 500 in a gaming i5 and basic i3 rig respectively)
  
 could that possibly be an issue for your set up ?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

scruffy1 said:


> did all this happen in the same pc ?  in the same slot ?
> 
> there might be some regulation issue with the power supply - what are you using, and how old is the psu ?
> 
> ...


 
 It's been tried in multiple slots on two separate STX 2's. It uses a molex off of a HX1000i. I'm using a Maximus Formula VII. Edit: This HX1000i is less than a year old.


----------



## scruffy1

jonathan crouch said:


> It's been tried in multiple slots on two separate STX 2's. It uses a molex off of a HX1000i. I'm using a Maximus Formula VII. Edit: This HX1000i is less than a year old.


 
  
 ah... *too much *power


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

scruffy1 said:


> ah... *too much *power


 
 That's just the thing. No one has been able to tell me what's causing this. What I do not understand is why the normal amps do not have issues. However, when I use the V5's they get hot; almost hot enough to burn my hands. However, the same issue is persisting on the 2nd STX 2. After the last two V5's and the V5i blew up I stopped trying altogether.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

jonathan crouch said:


> Bursons are better than Muses. However, I've yet to find out what caused my STX 2 and it's V5-D's to burn up. So for now I cannot say if it's safe to use them in one since I've burned up one STX 2 and I've burned up amps in two different STX 2.
> 
> Now from the Muses I use 2 8820 (Muse 02,) and 1 8920 (Muse 01.) I've found that it sounds better than 2 8920 and 1 8820.
> 
> ...


 
  
 yeah I read about the bursons causing some channels to have problems over time from multiple people (maybe it is a voltage issue?)
  
 I still have my old stx1 maybe il try bursons on that (since it wont be a big deal if it burns up)
  
 for stx2
  
 I guess I will try the 2-1 setup both ways for the muses and see which one sounds better.
  
 Anyone else have suggestions on this?
  
  
 Also, the 2 amps in the IV stage are the ones that affect headphones right so if im using my DT 880s there would be no diference between putting 2 muse02s and 1 muse01 versus all 3 muse02's right? I think I read somewhere it only uses the buffer stage for the speakers RCA?


----------



## CVLover

different motherboard and i am using a "adapter" to get the cable long enough. maybe that one is bad. i dont know. im using a xfx 1250 pro powersupply.


----------



## fredeb

jonathan crouch said:


> That's just the thing. No one has been able to tell me what's causing this. What I do not understand is why the normal amps do not have issues. However, when I use the V5's they get hot; almost hot enough to burn my hands. However, the same issue is persisting on the 2nd STX 2. After the last two V5's and the V5i blew up I stopped trying altogether.



It definitely sounds like a Burson / STX2 issue , as others have been experiencing similar problems with the combo , but not with the original STX . It would be nice if someone who had a similar problem would chip in here .


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

btw I just saw that muses03 are coming out soon (december) supposedly its going to be better than 01/02


----------



## Jay Callen

th2pun1sh3r said:


> btw I just saw that muses03 are coming out soon (december) supposedly its going to be better than 01/02


 

 NJR's press release re new flagship op amp Muses03, dated Oct 11, 2016:  http://www.njr.com/products/press2016/MUSES03.html
 _____________________________________________
  
 Damn, I hate reading about V5 / V5i defects and/or incompatibilities.  Last week I ordered Burson op amps for my new STX II because its stock Muses 8820 / 8920 are so lousy that after one week I switched back to my Dell XPS' onboard Realtek ALC3861 audio.  I'll not go back to STX II unless Burson V5 / V5i (ordered both) significantly improve its SQ.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

what kind of headphones are you using jay? I definitely think the stx2 could use some tweaks with op amps but its not "that bad" is it?


----------



## Jay Callen

th2pun1sh3r,
  
 Since installing the STX II last week, Adam Audio F5 stand-mounted powered studio monitors have been my primary source for near-field critical listening, not headphones. After the Burson op amps (waiting for arrival) are installed and compared, then I’ll learn a lot more about the SQ of swappable op amps vs. sound card per se.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

ahh yeah I have a pair of logitech speakers w/ sub but I think the asus guys said you need to swap the buffer to make the speakers sound good. Headphones are way better though.
  
 I am hoping muse01/02 combo will improve speakers


----------



## Jay Callen

th2pun1sh3r said:


> ...I am hoping muse01/02 combo will improve speakers


 
 Well, for that kind of money plus a bit of price negotiation, one could buy discrete or hybrid “audiophile designer” op amps which virtually every Head-Fi reviewer says beat the monolithic IC Muses8820/8920/01/02 hands down.  And that's why I considered Sparkos SS3602, Burson V5 / V5i, and ordered the latter.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

yeah you are right, I am now considering sparkos- I wanted to get burson but after hearing about all the dead cards and burned card that result from that combo it seems risky.


----------



## fredeb

jay callen said:


> th2pun1sh3r,
> 
> Since installing the STX II last week, Adam Audio F5 stand-mounted powered studio monitors have been my primary source for near-field critical listening, not headphones. After the Burson op amps (waiting for arrival) are installed and compared, then I’ll learn a lot more about the SQ of swappable op amps vs. sound card per se.


 
 I wouldn't install Bursons in a STX II , after the reports of Bursons burning out and caps popping on STX II's , rather try them on original STX .
  
 Anyways , I've just swopped OPA2111KP's for TI OPA1612 SOIC soldered onto dip8 adapters . That's in the I/V section and left LM6172IN in the buffer . Noise floor has dropped considerably and definition is the sharpest I've come across . I'm listening to a vintage pair of B&W DM12's being driven by a Linsey Hood 80wpc amp with shunt regulated dual rail supply .
  
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1612.pdf
  
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm6172.pdf


----------



## fredeb

I seriously can't think how the Muses opamps can possibly be better than the OPA1612 , check out the spec sheets . Methinks it's a scam .
  
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa1612.pdf
  
http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/NJR%20PDFs/MUSES01.pdf
  
http://www.njr.com/semicon/PDF/MUSES02_E.pdf
  
 I can highly recommend giving OPA1612 a try , the highest quality opamp available from Texas Instruments . Get a SOIC opamp and SOIC to DIP8 adapter and give it ago .
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-5pcs-SOP8-SO8-SOIC8-TO-DIP8-adapter-pcb-conveter-board-/190814801321?hash=item2c6d72cda9:g:~x8AAMXQO21RyVCZ


----------



## CVLover

so i tested the soundcard again, im currently listening on it now. and have not experienced any popping suddenly.. that is strange. im going to give it some days. i hope the card will keep up


----------



## CVLover

but i feel like the sound is not as clear as it used to be. may be because of the different op amps. im so used to the burson awesomeness


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Bursons customer service still remains second to none. They were going to send me another set of V5's this would put them out over $500 in replacements they've sent me. Although, I told them I will just purchase a Conductor Air. Since I need a good amp for my phone as well. I've heard a lot of good things about the Conductor Air. So we shall see how everything goes. The Cable+ looks amazing too. Although that upgrade will have to wait. I cannot rule out what is causing the issues with the STX 2. There's still an STX, although unfortunately I gave it to another member of my family who also lives here. So I can no longer use that for testing purposes. I would very much like to see however, It would prove if or not it's a problem linked to the design STX 2 itself. 
  
 I will post how everything works with the Conductor Air once it's in. Some have reported the audio quality to be superior to the STX/V5 combo.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

il let u guys know what I think once the muses01 and muses02 get here , il throw em in  hopefully its significantly better quality


----------



## fredeb

cvlover said:


> so i tested the soundcard again, im currently listening on it now. and have not experienced any popping suddenly.. that is strange. im going to give it some days. i hope the card will keep up


 
 I'm happy to hear your card is working - I was wondering what Asus's policy is regarding under warranty replacement ? They do , after all , push the fact that the card is opamp swapping capable . 
  


cvlover said:


> but i feel like the sound is not as clear as it used to be. may be because of the different op amps. im so used to the burson awesomeness


 
 Is it the stock opamps you have in there now ?
  


jonathan crouch said:


> Bursons customer service still remains second to none. They were going to send me another set of V5's this would put them out over $500 in replacements they've sent me. Although, I told them I will just purchase a Conductor Air. Since I need a good amp for my phone as well. I've heard a lot of good things about the Conductor Air. So we shall see how everything goes. The Cable+ looks amazing too. Although that upgrade will have to wait. I cannot rule out what is causing the issues with the STX 2. There's still an STX, although unfortunately I gave it to another member of my family who also lives here. So I can no longer use that for testing purposes. I would very much like to see however, It would prove if or not it's a problem linked to the design STX 2 itself.
> 
> I will post how everything works with the Conductor Air once it's in. Some have reported the audio quality to be superior to the STX/V5 combo.


 
 Good to hear about Burson's customer service - that makes a big difference .


----------



## CVLover

Im using the ones that comes with the card. Not the original ones


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Also, Burson asked me to send my card to them for testing. They'll have a better chance than I do at getting to the bottom of the issue. We'll see how everything turns out. Even if the card proves incapable of holding the amps down. I will be able to use the Conductor Air once it arrives. They have really gone out of their way to help me. They're even planning to replace the V5-D's still. This will put them out over 700$ on this if you include all the amps I've gone through.
  
 Edit: I really hope they can find the issue. The STX 2 is really the only card I have that can push my HD 700's. The Maximus Formula VII has a half decent DAC and AMP. However, it cannot and will not do what the STX 2 can.


----------



## CVLover

Thats great customer service right there. I hope they find the problem!


----------



## fredeb

cvlover said:


> Im using the ones that comes with the card. Not the original ones


 
 I see . 
  
 Could you please relate what sets the burson sound apart from other op amps ( describe the Sound Quality ) ?
  
 For example , for hifi listening I have Class D Hypex mono-blocks , a vintage Class A/B Harman Kardon PM660 and custom built 300B Push Pull with inter-stage transformer mono-blocks . 
  
 The Hypex amps are the epitome of neutrality , imaging is good , PRAT is spot on , bass control and definition is excellent ; *BUT *time and time again I am drawn back to the HK or 300B PP . Why ? Because of the " musicality " of these amps , they're an absolute pleasure to listen to , non-fatiguing . I can't wait to hear the 300B when I get home from work  . Almost every genre too - 'cept maybe some very fast deep electronic drum music ( Drum n Bass  and such the like ) .


----------



## fredeb

jonathan crouch said:


> Also, Burson asked me to send my card to them for testing. They'll have a better chance than I do at getting to the bottom of the issue. We'll see how everything turns out. Even if the card proves incapable of holding the amps down. I will be able to use the Conductor Air once it arrives. They have really gone out of their way to help me. They're even planning to replace the V5-D's still. This will put them out over 700$ on this if you include all the amps I've gone through.
> 
> Edit: I really hope they can find the issue. The STX 2 is really the only card I have that can push my HD 700's. The Maximus Formula VII has a half decent DAC and AMP. However, it cannot and will not do what the STX 2 can.


 
 Amazing customer service indeed - bless them !
  
 I'm interested in hearing your impressions of the Conductor Air .
  
 Just a thought : http://www.head-fi.org/t/794856/manley-labs-headphone-amp


----------



## CVLover

the lows are much cleaner and is more pronounced, mids sound wider and is smoother. I love the smootheness of the highs. I find myself beeing able to put the volume abit louder without getting harsh or sharp tones. It has to be heard. Its a great upgrade compared to the stock. This was probably a bad description


----------



## CVLover

There are also certain things you hear in songs that you dont realize is there when you are using the burson op amps


----------



## fredeb

cvlover said:


> the lows are much cleaner and is more pronounced, mids sound wider and is smoother. I love the smootheness of the highs. I find myself beeing able to put the volume abit louder without getting harsh or sharp tones. It has to be heard. Its a great upgrade compared to the stock. This was probably a bad description


 
 No - that is a good description . It sounds like the sound I like hearing ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Clean and unobtrusive .


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

fredeb said:


> I see .
> 
> Could you please relate what sets the burson sound apart from other op amps ( describe the Sound Quality ) ?
> 
> ...


 
 What CV said you will notice things you never noticed before... I noticed such a difference that I pulled my Astro's off of digital for analog back before I had the HD 700's. The Astro A40's are almost horrible on any analog source... That being said with the bursons they sounded better than on their own digital amp that's designed for them. It literally makes things open up. I have not tested them on a audiophile headset yet. However, now that I own one I will be testing it as soon as Burson gets the Conductor Air to me. I will also be testing my STX 2 on it once they are able to find the problem with it. I will also leave my impressions on the Conductor Air here. I've heard it's amazing for a portable amp.
  
 Edit: Considering it uses a Sabre ESS 9018 and the Burson V5i's I'm expecting a lot out of that little amp. We'll see =D


----------



## fredeb

jonathan crouch said:


> What CV said you will notice things you never noticed before... I noticed such a difference that I pulled my Astro's off of digital for analog back before I had the HD 700's. The Astro A40's are almost horrible on any analog source... That being said with the bursons they sounded better than on their own digital amp that's designed for them. It literally makes things open up. I have not tested them on a audiophile headset yet. However, now that I own one I will be testing it as soon as Burson gets the Conductor Air to me. I will also be testing my STX 2 on it once they are able to find the problem with it. I will also leave my impressions on the Conductor Air here. I've heard it's amazing for a portable amp.
> 
> Edit: Considering it uses a Sabre ESS 9018 and the Burson V5i's I'm expecting a lot out of that little amp. We'll see =D


 
 I correlate "Open" to a depth in sound stage , contributing to image 3-dimensionality , and thus creating space between the different instruments /voices . The "Z" axis , as it were .
  
 I'm sure the Conductor Air won't disappoint .


----------



## jimwallen

I've used the Burson Op Amps both in the STX and now in the STX II, since it became available. I've never had a problem. There's a huge jump in sound quality with the Bursons, and I would highly recommend them. They are worth the price. The new version Bursons are also a big jump in sound quality compared to the originals. I listen with Martin Logan ESL's and Audeze LCD-4's. I love the Bursons!


----------



## CVLover

how do you like the martin logans ? those looks so good and also the audeze?


----------



## Jay Callen

jimwallen said:


> I've used the Burson Op Amps both in the STX and now in the STX II, since it became available. I've never had a problem. There's a huge jump in sound quality with the Bursons, and I would highly recommend them...


 
  
 jimwallen,
  
 Thanks for your reassuring words, as I’m eagerly awaiting arrival of Burson op amps for my new STX II. Just to clarify, about how long (years? months?) have you been running trouble-free Bursons in the STX II?


----------



## jimwallen

I used the 1st version Bursons for a year or two in the old STX and the new version Bursons in the new STX II for almost two years now. Trouble free and clean clear audio.


----------



## jimwallen

I love the Martin Logan ESL's. Clean, clear, airy. A subwoofer is recommended. Friends are astounded when they hear them, as was I. I have no regrets. Love 'em. The Audeze headphones, I can never say enough good things about them. I had the LCD-3's for two years and just upgraded to the LCD-4's. Quite pricey but the clarity, cleanness and airiness is the best I've ever heard. Before Audeze came along I had the Sennheiser 650's which are still a pretty good headphone, especially at their price. I bought both Audeze's straight from the company..Tony Hamilton..unheard and unseen, based only on reviews. I'd say just order them and enjoy. I doubt you'll send them back; speakers and headphones. Good luck.
 -jim


----------



## jimwallen

You will be very pleasantly surprised and happy with the Bursons. I promise.


----------



## fredeb

jimwallen said:


> I used the 1st version Bursons for a year or two in the old STX and the new version Bursons in the new STX II for almost two years now. Trouble free and clean clear audio.


 
 Hmm ... sounds like Jonathan Crouch's STX2 may be faulty then , in which case Asus should replace if still under warranty , right ?
  
 Unless other mods have been done ( caps ect. ) I guess .


----------



## fredeb

Here's RTA graph from REW - STX with 2x OPA1612 in I/V and LM6172IN in buffer 
  

  
 I wonder what that horrible spike is at 65hz ? Mains ?


----------



## jimwallen

My ears prefer the Burson Supreme Op Amps V5 above any chip. I've swapped out quite a few of the mentioned chips, but when I stumbled on the Burson's I found them to sound far better than the rest. Just my experience and opinion. -jim


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

i mean yeahj the bursons might sound nice but i dont feel like having card problems lol. i hope the muses01 are good enough


----------



## jimwallen

They will sound pretty good. I tried them, too. I have a great deal of doubt about the Bursons burning out the sound cards, but then again, I'm no electronics wizard. My experience has been very good. -jim


----------



## IronMan2

So im new into audio, i currently am looking to get a good pair of headphones, wether be the DT990 pRos or Soundmagic HP200. i have a Asus xonar STX 2 soundcard and was looking into getting new OP amps, what would be best to have the best sound quality instead of buying an amp such as the Schiit Magni 2 uber?


----------



## jimwallen

I'm a big fan of the Burson Supreme Op Amps.


----------



## IronMan2

ok, so would they be good formy sound card? im new to this whole thing lol


----------



## Jay Callen

Hi IronMan2,
  
 Also a newbie, I’ve read virtually every Head-Fi review and/or comment about DIP8 swappable op amps. To jump-start your own research, here’s an interesting review comparing 3 top contenders (Burson V5 discrete, V5i hybrid, and Sparkos SS3602 discrete) for best sound from ASUS Essence STX II: http://www.head-fi.org/t/708756/asus-xonar-essence-stx-ii/510#post_12821726. Hope this helps.


----------



## noclevername

Test Setup:
 
Asus Essence STX
Buron V5 OPamp upgrade
Burson Cable+
Schiit Asgard
HiFiMan HE 400i
Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohm
Sennheiser HD555
 
I am comparing this setup to my current one.
 
My current set up is:
 
Schiit Modi 2 Uber
Schiit Asgard
HiFiMan HE 400i
Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohm
Sennheiser HD555
 
The quality of the make of both the V5 OPamps and the Cable+ are top notch. It was clear from just inspecting both items that Burson put their time and efforts into making high quality products. The V5's are constructed very well, have a nice clean look. Although they are large in size, comparatively speaking to my old OPamps, they definitely are not obstructing anything in my case. The Cable+ is built very well all the way around. The connections are made from a high quality material, and feel like they will hold up to many years of use. The box in the middle is built of a nice solid metal. The housing protects all the internal components very well. The power port for the board is built solidly and does not seem like this will become loose over time. The rounded edges on the housing not only look nice, but in my opinion help from keeping any cables from snagging an edge on it. 
 
My initial impression of the cable plus can be found here. I am expanding on this review.
 
I added the Burson V5 OPamp upgrade to my Essence STX. While just using the Cable+ the sound was warm, vibrant and clear, but adding the V5 OPamp upgrade has improved on this quality even more. This combo has rivaled my Modi 2 Uber, and even surpassed my expectations for such a small upgrade. My previous set up was having a hard time pushing my DT990's, but running the upgraded OPamps along with the powered cable has been able to drive them with much more ease. I also saw a gain in my HE 400i's as I no longer have to turn the volume up on the Asgard up as much to obtain the same level I am used to listening to. I was able to dial back by about 25% compared to where I was before. 
 
 
In music settings I tested using a wide set of genres. I chose the artists based off bands and people I have listened to for years.Some of the artists chosen were: Tech N9ne, Metallica, System of A Down, Andre Bocelli, Garth Brooks, Nighwish, Van Halen, and much more. I tested both with just the OPamp upgrade, as well as using the Cable+ replacing just RCA cables. The V5 upgrade was definitely a game changer over my old OPamps. The clarity, warmth, and all around sound quality improvement was beyond what I was expecting. The treble with the V5's became quite a bit brighter, but not to the point that the mids or lows were drown out. The mids are very precise. The individual notes of the guitar are easily discernible. The lows are more brought out more vibrant without becoming harsh or muddled. All around this set up for music has made a very vibrant, warm, and enjoyable listening experience. 
 
I also tested this with a few games that are very sound oriented to game play. I tested with Counter Strike Global Offensive and Call of Duty Black OP's III. Both these game in multiplayer are very sound oriented. Directional sound is crucial to game play. One must be able to discern the direction of players, gunfire, grenades and the like. Adding the V5's to the Essence STX alongside the Cable+ brought a clarity into game play I have yet to come across. While just using the Cable+ made an improvement on directional sound, the V5's brought it up to a whole new level for me. In one test for directional sound I had a player run wide circles around me. I was able to hear his location so clear I was able to determine exactly where he was around me by sound alone. Playing in some of the maps there are subtle sounds that can give away a players location like dropping off an edge, running on tile or wood, reloading, or even just changing weapons. I was able to precisely locate and enemy player just by the small subtle sounds. Not only did both the V5 OPamps and Cable+ improve directional sound, but vastly improved the overall quality of in game sounds. Gun sounds such as firing and reloading became realistic. It felt as if it were happening right next to me. 
 
All in all the V5 OPamps and Cable+ have improved sound quality for areas. Both products have a wide variety of applications. There are multiple sound cards that can utilize the V5 Opamps, and even more applications for the Cable+. Whether it be used as I did to a dedicated amp, a sound system in your house, or with your car stereo. The uses are infinite for both products. If your serious into HIFI or just wanting a simple upgrade without breaking the bank this is easily an affordable way to go.

For further clarification on the use of the Cable+ check out this video to explain the importance and uses of the Cable+.

[VIDEO]
[/VIDEO]

 
 
 

 

 


 

[VIDEO][VIDEO][VIDEO][VIDEO][/VIDEO][/VIDEO][/VIDEO][/VIDEO]


----------



## Voxata

Excellent impressions!! I love the V5s


----------



## rvcjew

I agree, great review and nice rig.


----------



## th2pun1sh3r

just put 2 muses01 and 1 muses02 into my stx2, holy F the difference is night and day. Everything sounds better, clearer, smoother?! Its hard to describe but I can't get this smile off my face.
  
  
  
 I tried the stock setup before (and also swapped in the amps that came with the card) but there wasnt any magic until I put in the muses01/02
  
 Can't wait to try 2 muses02 and 1 muses01 on the old STX card as well-
  
  
 edit- Need to add this in here (Am getting chills listening to songs ive heard many times before, and there are details that make the song more complex that I couldn't hear before?)
  
  
 edit2- stx with 2x muse2 1x muse1 sound amazing as well- I would say 10% worse compared to STX 2 with 2x muse1 1x muse 2.
  
 also, just for ****s I tried the 600ohm dt 880s vs my 33ish ohm ADH 700's and the difference was huge there too, but even just with the crappy headphones it sounded way better than stock.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

An update on my end as well. The Conductor Air arrives today. So I will write my impressions about that later on today. Burson should have received my STX 2 today according to the tracking. I will also be finding out about that as well soon hopefully.


----------



## fredeb

jonathan crouch said:


> An update on my end as well. The Conductor Air arrives today. So I will write my impressions about that later on today. Burson should have received my STX 2 today according to the tracking. I will also be finding out about that as well soon hopefully.


 
 Can't wait to hear of their findings , and the Conductor Air .


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I'll take more photo's later. After some testing it's safe to say this is a powerful portable amp. It packs quite a punch I can't even max the volume out. It's roughly the size of a credit card and a half and about an inch deep. Just by the weight and feel of this I can tell it's very high quality.
  
 Now onto the sound detail. It's very neutral (tested on the Sennheiser HD 700) It actually makes the HD 700's sound closer to a pair of HD 600's with more detail. As with my previous experience with the Burson products the bass is very clear. There's force but it's not "punch" however, you can hear the micro details in the bass. The mids and high's are well pronounced but not overpowering which is saying a good bit coming from the HD 700. Now It's hard to say how the comparison is the OPA V5-D STX. It's very, very close to what I remember my STX 2 being with x3 OPA V5-D. However, I will update this once my STX 2 is back from Burson. Also, a note I only had a pair of HD 600's for a bit which was used with my STX on stock amps I cannot vouch for how it would sound on this setup.
  
 Edit: I'd be interested to hear how the HD 800 sound with the Conductor Air.
 Edit 2: For the sound quality, it's hard to believe this comes from such a small portable DAC/Amp.


----------



## Freshage

Yo!
  
 I just picked up an STX for £100 to put in my PC to power my HD650's.
  
 I enjoy natural sound over bass thumpers, any advice on an op amp setup?
  
 I game and music is #1 priority


----------



## fredeb

freshage said:


> Yo!
> 
> I just picked up an STX for £100 to put in my PC to power my HD650's.
> 
> ...


 
 It depends on what kind of money you want to spend . If you want to go for more affordable options I'd recommend 2x OPA1612 in the I/V stage ( that's the 2 next to eachother ) , and LM6172 in the buffer ( the 1 opamp on it's own ) . 
  
 For OPA1612 you need to buy it soldered onto DIP8 adapter , because it comes in SOP8 form factor . 
  
 Like so : http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-TI-OPA1612AID-ON-DIP-ADAPTER-/252603693880?hash=item3ad05a7b38:g:xpgAAOSwXeJYDyWW


----------



## Freshage

Awesome, just something cheap to start with really, to get me going and upgrade from there.
  
 The one down side, it's going into a micro atx build so having the shield off the card might cause problems, so I'd need it to fit with the shield on. Unless you feel it will be fine? 
  
 So this with those *TI OPA1612AID's?*
  
*Thanks!*


----------



## fredeb

freshage said:


> Awesome, just something cheap to start with really, to get me going and upgrade from there.
> 
> The one down side, it's going into a micro atx build so having the shield off the card might cause problems, so I'd need it to fit with the shield on. Unless you feel it will be fine?
> 
> ...


 
 Yes , shield will fit . And remember you need to order 2 of them .


----------



## Freshage

fredeb said:


> Yes , shield will fit . And remember you need to order 2 of them .


 
 Cool, now to find somewhere in the UK!


----------



## Freshage

Any other tips for the STX? My budget wouldn't allow for the STX ii, but from what I see, they are almost identical anyway.


----------



## PurpleAngel

freshage said:


> Any other tips for the STX? My budget wouldn't allow for the STX ii, but from what I see, they are almost identical anyway.


 
  
 The LM4562 op-amp used in the STX's buffer slot is a relabeled LME49720.
  
 For a low cost option you could replace the two JRC2114 op-amps with two LME49720.
 Or replace all three of the STX's op-amps with LME49860
 (the LME49860 is a cherry picked LME49720).
  
 My final choice with my STX was three AD797BR (about $50-$60 for the three)


----------



## guestie

Hey,
  
 I was looking into this op-amp upgrade for my Xonar essence STX:
  
 https://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-essence-stx-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/
  
 The only thing I am really concerned about is that my sound card gets some electrical interference sometimes at very low volumes, would this upgrade have any effect on that?
  
 Also, I haven't really got any soldering experience, is this an easy upgrade to do yourself?
  
 Is this the best sound quality upgrade I could go for with my sound card and how do cheaper options compare? (based in England, keep in mind shipping etc)
  
 Finally, if the interference problem would not be solved, what amp+dac upgrade is going to be noticeable over my stock STX for a similar price to the burson audio upgrade ($200)
  
 Thanks
  
 EDIT: Using AKG K712's


----------



## fredeb

guestie said:


> Hey,
> 
> I was looking into this op-amp upgrade for my Xonar essence STX:
> 
> ...


 
 Be careful that your interference problem doesn't just affect any device that you connect to your PC . I have the same problem , when I use an external USB DAC the problem persists . Could be : Power Supply , a case fan , GFX card or GFX card fan , capacitors going on motherboard , earth on monitor power etc. etc. 
  
 First isolate the problem before proceeding - otherwise upgrades are pointless .
  
 You don't need soldering skills to upgrade your STX to Burson , just unplug the current ones and replace with Burson with correct orientation .


----------



## guestie

fredeb said:


> Be careful that your interference problem doesn't just affect any device that you connect to your PC . I have the same problem , when I use an external USB DAC the problem persists . Could be : Power Supply , a case fan , GFX card or GFX card fan , capacitors going on motherboard , earth on monitor power etc. etc.
> 
> First isolate the problem before proceeding - otherwise upgrades are pointless .
> 
> You don't need soldering skills to upgrade your STX to Burson , just unplug the current ones and replace with Burson with correct orientation .


 
  
 The problem only happens when certain programs are running so I have no idea how I would isolate it. It's only a slight humming and it never happens with music players so it isn't really a big problem. 
  
 Anyway, I wasn't upgrading to get rid of the interference, I was wondering if it would help it in any way. Is the sound quality increase really very noticeable?
  
 Thanks for your answers


----------



## fredeb

guestie said:


> The problem only happens when certain programs are running so I have no idea how I would isolate it. It's only a slight humming and it never happens with music players so it isn't really a big problem.
> 
> Anyway, I wasn't upgrading to get rid of the interference, I was wondering if it would help it in any way. Is the sound quality increase really very noticeable?
> 
> Thanks for your answers


 
 Wow ! I just solved my noise problem - woo-hoo ! It was the extention kettle plug going to the power supply - it has driven me mad recently . I dis-assembled my pc , cleaned every part , de-oxyed the fans , swopped them , and to no avail . Now it's solved - I shall imminently dance a jig to sweet tunes .


----------



## Dustinthewind0

So what's the consensus on the old Essence cards? I have a ST that I've had for ages, and I'm wondering if it's sufficient for something like a ZMF Vibro or Hifiman HE400i.


----------



## fredeb

dustinthewind0 said:


> So what's the consensus on the old Essence cards? I have a ST that I've had for ages, and I'm wondering if it's sufficient for something like a ZMF Vibro or Hifiman HE400i.


 
 Excellent card - if you don't want it or don't have a PCI slot in your new motherboard - send it to me !


----------



## Dustinthewind0

Haha, I'm not quite ready to part with it. This will probably be my last upgrade cycle with it though. Finding a PCI slot on newer motherboards is getting harder and harder. 


fredeb said:


> Excellent card - if you don't want it or don't have a PCI slot in your new motherboard - send it to me !


----------



## fredeb

dustinthewind0 said:


> Haha, I'm not quite ready to part with it. This will probably be my last upgrade cycle with it though. Finding a PCI slot on newer motherboards is getting harder and harder.


 
 I'm pretty sure it's more than good enough to drive your 'phones . Have you tried swopping opamps ? 
  
 Another thought is using it to drive external Headamp , and/or poweramp with good speakers .
  
 Nice thing is that the PCI version doesn't require extra molex connector as enough power is to be had through the PCI slot .


----------



## Dustinthewind0

fredeb said:


> I'm pretty sure it's more than good enough to drive your 'phones . Have you tried swopping opamps ?
> 
> Another thought is using it to drive external Headamp , and/or poweramp with good speakers .
> 
> Nice thing is that the PCI version doesn't require extra molex connector as enough power is to be had through the PCI slot .


 
 Haven't gotten into the opamp game. Been pretty satisfied with the power, since I haven't even really owned any high impedance cans (HD 598 and AKG K550). Only just now considering some higher impedance planar magnetic headphones.
  
 I'm using it as a source for SMSL SA-98E with my AA CBM 170SE. 
  
 It's the only thing in my system using a molex connector these days, but she's held up admirably.


----------



## fredeb

dustinthewind0 said:


> Haven't gotten into the opamp game. Been pretty satisfied with the power, since I haven't even really owned any high impedance cans (HD 598 and AKG K550). Only just now considering some higher impedance planar magnetic headphones.
> 
> I'm using it as a source for SMSL SA-98E with my AA CBM 170SE.
> 
> It's the only thing in my system using a molex connector these days, but she's held up admirably.


 
 The AA CBM 170SE look pretty cool . I didn't know about them , and I don't know why I thought the ST doesn't need a molex connector , I must be thinking of something else .
  
 I've only tried budget opamps in my STX , no Bursons , Sparkos and the like . It's been an interesting experience , worth playing around with IMHO . Favourites for me thusfar in the I/V stage have been ( in order of preference ) OPA1612 on dip adapters , and OPA2111 . I also tried , but didn't like OPA2137PA , LME49720NA , OPA2228P , OPA2134PA . It seems that in every case LM6172 is my preference in the buffer stage . I've just received 2x  LME49990MA ( 2 mono SOIC's soldered onto DIP adapter ) and need to give 'em a try , specs look good .
  
 Input Noise Density (f = 1kHz) 0.9nV/vHz (typ) 1.3nV/vHz (max)
 THD+N (AV = 1, VOUT = 3VRMS, fIN = 1kHz) RL = 600ohm 0.00001%
 1/f Corner Frequency 43Hz (typ)
 Slew Rate ±22V/µs (max)
 Gain Bandwidth (AV = 104, RL = 2kO, f = 90kHz) 110MHz (typ)
 PSRR 144dB (typ)
 CMRR 137dB (typ)
  
 Looking at datasheets of opamps is how I decided which ones to try , and then depend on my ears - for lack of test equipment . I suppose your own ears are all that really matter , and taste differs . I must say though , that OPA2111KP do sound sweet , must have something to do with harmonics , but I can't prove it .


----------



## Nosce Te Ipsum

Hi, I have an Essence ST with 3x LME49990MA (on dip8 adapters for a total of 6 chips) and I think they're very good sounding opamps, maybe not the best combination out there but still quite an improvement over the default ones. My headphones are the HD650s. I don't know if it's a good choice on the buffer though. From what I've read the default LM4562 was already very good and maybe a better option... but I'm too lazy to remove the card/plate and reinstall the LM4562. Anyway, just wanted to know your impressions about your 2x 49990 on the I/Vs and the LM6172 on the buffer. Thanks


----------



## fredeb

nosce te ipsum said:


> Hi, I have an Essence ST with 3x LME49990MA (on dip8 adapters for a total of 6 chips) and I think they're very good sounding opamps, maybe not the best combination out there but still quite an improvement over the default ones. My headphones are the HD650s. I don't know if it's a good choice on the buffer though. From what I've read the default LM4562 was already very good and maybe a better option... but I'm too lazy to remove the card/plate and reinstall the LM4562. Anyway, just wanted to know your impressions about your 2x 49990 on the I/Vs and the LM6172 on the buffer. Thanks


 
 Just installed the LME49990MA's ( LM6172 in buffer ) now and am listening to my reference track , from Al di Meola's " Cielo e Terra " - " Traces of a Tear " . Wow ! SQ is amazing , stage is wide , high and deep and extremely well-defined . Noisefloor is non-existant , by my perception anyway . This track has many quiet nuances , which all appear to be crystal-clear , timing is spot-on . Beautiful .
  
 Hmm ... what to try for something with a bit of bass .... OK - Robert Rich's " Seven Veils " , 1st track " Coils " . Again , lots of fine detail , between the relentless onslaught of the very deep drums . It's very fast , LM6172 has slewrate that few can keep up with , so no bottlenecking . Definitely worth a try !


----------



## fredeb

Now for some visceral psychedelic bad craziness . Track no.2 from White Zombie's " _Supersexy Swingin' Sounds " _- " More Human than Human " . The STX doesn't get befuddled here either , everything stops and start exactly on time , juxtaposition of jagged noise and barely instantaneous silence . Gotta hear it to believe it . Ok , I think I'm freaking my neighbours out now . 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Remember , the buffer shouldn't affect headphones , only RCA outs , thus me using amp and speakers to listen .
  
 Between LME49990MA and OPA1612 it's pretty close , but I'd still say that LME49990MA wins the day - damn they sound good .


----------



## Nosce Te Ipsum

fredeb said:


> Just installed the LME49990MA's ( LM6172 in buffer ) now and am listening to my reference track , from Al di Meola's " Cielo e Terra " - " Traces of a Tear " . Wow ! SQ is amazing , stage is wide , high and deep and extremely well-defined . Noisefloor is non-existant , by my perception anyway . This track has many quiet nuances , which all appear to be crystal-clear , timing is spot-on . Beautiful .
> 
> Hmm ... what to try for something with a bit of bass .... OK - Robert Rich's " Seven Veils " , 1st track " Coils " . Again , lots of fine detail , between the relentless onslaught of the very deep drums . It's very fast , LM6172 has slewrate that few can keep up with , so no bottlenecking . Definitely worth a try !


 
  
  


fredeb said:


> Now for some visceral psychedelic bad craziness . Track no.2 from White Zombie's " _Supersexy Swingin' Sounds " _- " More Human than Human " . The STX doesn't get befuddled here either , everything stops and start exactly on time , juxtaposition of jagged noise and barely instantaneous silence . Gotta hear it to believe it . Ok , I think I'm freaking my neighbours out now .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for your listening impressions. Yes, you're right, the buffer only affects RCAs. Headphone out instead uses both the I/Vs and buffer if I remember correctly. Would you consider the LME49990MAs among the best of all those you tried? I just looked at the datasheet of both 4562/6172 and looks like the 4562 is more suited for a sound card etc. than the 6172... or maybe it's just my impression, don't know much about all that technical stuff. The "suspect" came from reading the data under the "Application" tabs.
  
 Here are the links: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm4562.pdf | http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm6172.pdf
  
 Anyway, could you try the default 4562 (buffer) with 49990s (I/V) combination if you're not too lazy like me?  Maybe you could find out that the 4562 is better than the 6172...


----------



## Freshage

Question for those using this form gaming as well.
  
 The 'Game' mode sounds incredibly horrible. Truly. Is the 8 channels really essential when in hifi for gaming?


----------



## Freshage

purpleangel said:


> The LM4562 op-amp used in the STX's buffer slot is a relabeled LME49720.
> 
> For a low cost option you could replace the two JRC2114 op-amps with two LME49720.
> Or replace all three of the STX's op-amps with LME49860
> ...


 
  
 I can't for the life of me find these in the UK (or at least anywhere to buy from), any suggestions? I'm on about the AD797BR.


----------



## fredeb

freshage said:


> I can't for the life of me find these in the UK (or at least anywhere to buy from), any suggestions? I'm on about the AD797BR.


 
  
http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Analog-Devices/AD797BRZ/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv9yaQC4TiGCZp%252bzjCMT2SRpJ177c0LLRY%3d
  
 You need 2 of these per Dual SOIC to DIP8 adapter , and you need the adapters . If I were you , I'd just order them made up from China on Ebay . I have done so with good results , if sellers on Ebay sell fake goods , they can get thrown off , and mostly it's worth their while staying on . Otherwise , why not try something that is available in DIP8 format , and be sure it's a dual-mono to dual opamp adapter as the AD797BR is a mono channel opamp and all the ones in the STX are dual opamps .


----------



## fredeb

@ Freshage
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?hash=item3cd4b48da0:g:cbAAAOxyjxlTON9~
  
 You have to see an AD797 above and below the DIP9 adapter board .
  
 ... and cheaper 
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-AD797BR-replace-OPA2604/262450099170?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D38530%26meid%3Df9a20163266a41ba83f374daa1e8d320%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D272462906198


----------



## Freshage

fredeb said:


> @ Freshage
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?hash=item3cd4b48da0:g:cbAAAOxyjxlTON9~
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cool, think I'll order 3 of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?hash=item3cd4b48da0:g:cbAAAOxyjxlTON9~&rmvSB=true
  
 Hopefully I'll notice a difference  Fairly new to all of this.


----------



## fredeb

freshage said:


> Cool, think I'll order 3 of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/mod-1x-AD797BR-Dual-to-Mono-Op-amp-module-ultralow-noise-replace-a-dual-op-/261266640288?hash=item3cd4b48da0:g:cbAAAOxyjxlTON9~&rmvSB=true
> 
> Hopefully I'll notice a difference  Fairly new to all of this.


 
 Hmmm .... I'm wondering if you shouldn't just order 2 pairs and then go for LM6172 in the buffer , or just stick with the LM4562 that should be there already .
  
 .... and yes , the link you chose looks like the neater set . You should notice a huge difference from the stock JRC 2114D’s .
  
 Also be sure to look at page 1 of this thread , as various peoples' opinions of trying different combinations are listed there .


----------



## Freshage

fredeb said:


> Hmmm .... I'm wondering if you shouldn't just order 2 pairs and then go for LM6172 in the buffer , or just stick with the LM4562 that should be there already .
> 
> .... and yes , the link you chose looks like the neater set . You should notice a huge difference from the stock JRC 2114D’s .
> 
> Also be sure to look at page 1 of this thread , as various peoples' opinions of trying different combinations are listed there .


 
  
 Cool, I'd like to upgrade the buffer as well to learn to see if I can notice a difference in them. Any helpful links for that one?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## fredeb

freshage said:


> Cool, I'd like to upgrade the buffer as well to learn to see if I can notice a difference in them. Any helpful links for that one?
> 
> Thanks!


 

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM6172IN-NOPB/?qs=QbsRYf82W3HiTd0xlL7RxQ==


----------



## Nosce Te Ipsum

Looks like Texas Instruments removed anything about the LME49990MA ... all the others opamps are still there
  
 http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/amplifiers/op-amps/audio-op-amps-products.page#
  
 In the Mouser page it is considered 'obsolete' .. no idea why.
  
 http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LME49990MA-NOPB/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugkO7ci4kEFwm%2fTOLuIktPP%252bvUpLGztZwELysmnINk%2fD7bXnuEi%2f42%252b


----------



## bcschmerker4

Speaking of Texas Instruments®, I read of other dual audio amplifiers that might be suitable for line-level buffer.  We know about the National Semiconductor® LM4562N, LME49720NA and LME49860NA.  But additionally, the Brown-Burr® OPA1642 has a mild 11 MHz gain-bandwidth product, 20 V/μS slew, and 5.1 nV/√Hz noise figure; the OPA1612, a 40 MHz gain bandwidth product, 27 V/μS slew, product and 1.1 nV/√Hz noise figure.  Both OPA's can go rail to rail at the output and are safe to 36 VDC supply.


----------



## jimwallen

My opinion and experience go hands down to the Burson Supreme Op Amp V5. It's a huge leap in sound quality-pick an adjective-than any of the ic chips mentioned. I tried them all, obsessive tweaker that I can be! I don't have a horse in this rate, I just want to share my experience with you.


----------



## fredeb

jimwallen said:


> My opinion and experience go hands down to the Burson Supreme Op Amp V5. It's a huge leap in sound quality-pick an adjective-than any of the ic chips mentioned. I tried them all, obsessive tweaker that I can be! I don't have a horse in this rate, I just want to share my experience with you.


 
 I'm sure you're right , I just can't afford these ATM , and besides , if I didn't try the others I probably wouldn't appreciate the difference as much - it is fun , after-all . 
  
 Did you try other discrete options ? Like Sparcos or Sonic Imagery ? Just wondering , for when I can afford to go these routes ( nothing like positive thinking , hey ? ) .


bcschmerker4 said:


> Speaking of Texas Instruments®, I read of other dual audio amplifiers that might be suitable for line-level buffer.  We know about the National Semiconductor® LM4562N, LME49720NA and LME49860NA.  But additionally, the Brown-Burr® OPA1642 has a mild 11 MHz gain-bandwidth product, 20 V/μS slew, and 5.1 nV/√Hz noise figure; the OPA1612, a 40 MHz gain bandwidth product, 27 V/μS slew, product and 1.1 nV/√Hz noise figure.  Both OPA's can go rail to rail at the output and are safe to 36 VDC supply.


 
 I've tried LM4562N, LME49720NA in the buffer , but still prefer LM6172 . I've only tried OPA1612's in the I/V section , and must say they are of the best there , I've got LME49990MA's in the I/V now ( right up there with OPA1612 in this position ) , so I could try OPA1612 in the buffer now . I'll report back re OPA1612 in buffer .
  
 I have to mention that I de-soldered a OPA2134 in my phono-stage and inserted opamp socket with OPA1612 there - simply amazing , clean , crystal-clear highs with pin-point definition , excellent seperation .  You got me wondering about OPA1642 now .


----------



## illusiveart

New Asus Essence STX skin for audio center!
 http://stxiiskinmod.blogspot.com/p/audio-center.html


----------



## gug42

Anyone try AD827SQ in I/V with STX ?


----------



## igytech

gug42 said:


> Anyone try AD827SQ in I/V with STX ?


 
 Yes, Raymond, quote:
  
 "With the AD827SQ in the I\V in the STX II & Muses02 in the buffers,the sound is natural and cold,spot on,kinda boring and dull.
 channel speration improved drastically,from avarage to great,but still not excellent as the ZXR."


----------



## Hansolo76

I would like to start off by thanking Charles from SS-Audio for the sample for this review.
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 First impressions, amazing!
  
 I am already using a Burson V5i in my Little Dot I+ and in my Xduoo XD-05 and the improvement was more than noticeable.  With that in mind, I was expecting a lot from the big brother and it did not disappoint.
  
 The first thing that I noticed was that the overall clarity and separation was significantly better.  The left and right audio channels were much more distinct and the accuracy of the music was very vibrant and crisp.
  
 While comparing the tracks listened to before and after, the mid range percussion stood out much better and I could distinguish beats and sounds that I didn't notice before.  It seemed like un-muting another layer in the music to me.  During female vocals I could actually hear the singer breath in between lines and was amazed by the new found details.
  
 The bass did not seem to change much.  It was very strong and pronounced both before and after.
  
 The mids improved by far the most.  They became much stronger and cleaner.  It was more than like just boosting the mids on an EQ.  It was hard to believe that I was listening to the same file because of how much more clarity I was now hearing.  I was very impressed with the amount of detail that was now present.
  
 The highs were also greatly improved, nicely bright with a good amount of detail as well.  Some songs did become a tad bit overly bright, but generally not too fatiguing overall.  That would be my only concern, but the benefits easily out weigh the concerns.
  
 What I used for this review:
  
 Custom PC > foobar2000 > Asus Xonar Essence STX > Beyerdynamic DT880 (600Ω)
  
 Overall thoughts:
  
 If you can find the room for the large size and have the money for the moderate price, these are a solidly good investment.  By far the best improvement that I've heard from an OP AMP and I've at least tried a handful.  Although not cheap, they are a bargain for what you get and the sound is impressive.


----------



## WhoIsThis

Just wondering, can the shielding be added with the Sparkos Op Amps?
  
 I think the version is the "dual discrete" SS3602?


----------



## Hansolo76

whoisthis said:


> Just wondering, can the shielding be added with the Sparkos Op Amps?
> 
> I think the version is the "dual discrete" SS3602?


 
  
 I wouldn't be able to say for sure, but from looking at pictures of the Sparkos there is a good chance that it could.  You would just have to try and as long as the new Op Amps aren't taller than the copper rail in the center, you would be fine.


----------



## rvcjew

I was as well like some others contacted by Charles at SS-Audio about two months ago since I have had the V5’s for quite some time to just have my honest opinions of the V5i which I heard were being developed at the time I purchased the STX Head-fi deal for the V5’s. I had been stuck with work and personal trips so I finally have gotten around to posting my opinions on here as they rightfully deserve since they sent me the 3 V5i’s I requested and two others (shipping error I think) in a timely matter and I have been the hold up in this review and not them for clarification sake.
  
 When I first got the V5’s I think in January of 2016 I was expecting a good improvement to separation and clarity. To say that I was blown away by the difference is an understatement as the stock STX op-amps at least for the RCA out portion was way too heavy on bass impact, so much so that it seemed to muddle the mids of songs to me and the separation to me felt way to close. My left ear hears with slightly less volume than the right so when the V5’s were put in I was very relieved that the soundstage was not as close and was not super wide either. With my speakers at about 5 feet from each other (not much space in my location) and a listening distance of about 4 to 8 feet the stock soundstage was too close in my opinion, but even as good as the soundstage became to what I was hoping the clarity of tracks that I previously had listened to on either YouTube or in J-River MC 20-22 with WASAPI to my O2 with cans or my AVAMP was just stunning. It was as if I could hear sound channels that did not exist before on lossy tracks and especially some of the lossless studio recordings I have. Female vocals especially sounded good, and the lows were not as prominent but still there. I would have to describe it as becoming much more natural as opposed to being slightly V-shaped before I think. Now I jumped directly to the V5’s off of the stock op-amps so I cannot compare the other recommendations floating around for this card to them, but from what I have experienced I would pay the money for them all over again.
  
 Now to compare them to the V5i’s, with the V5’s you cannot use the stock EFI shield unless you use extenders and cut a hole on the side of it. I opted to just remove it as I have the space in my case and I have not had any issues with it off. The V5i’s will fit under the EFI shield. After installing them I put the shield back on and started listening to some music on YouTube and some other sites that I knew had good quality but not lossless tracks and went from EDM to Classical to OST Scores. First impressions are that the soundstage is wider than the stock op-amps but not as wide as the V5’s and the clarity of the mids are the same but seem more recessed. What I mean by this is that they seemed not distorted but just farther away in the stage then say the highs or lows. I also think the lows are a little muddier then the V5’s but only in the higher frequencies of the lows (liking more bass or tighter bass I think is more personal than good or bad). Same can be said for the lossless content I listen to and I put the V5i’s not lower in the product stack with V5’s but more along the line of what personal tweak you want to your sound preferences’ I think.
  
 Both of the Burson’s are in my opinion better than the stock op-amps any way you slice it and I would recommend them to anyone who has the cash and wants a big upgrade to the DAC part of their chain.
  
 My setup is as follows all ran off a Cyperpower CP1500PFCLCD (pure sign wave, also powered my system during a storm for 15 minutes letting me finish my work that night) and using UNI Drivers 1816/1823 v1.80a r3 on Win 7 Pro x64 in test mode:
  
 J-River MC 22 (WASAPI)>STX RCA’s> O2 (with K7XX or TH-X00) or Onkyo TX NR525 (to Fluance SXHTBCS-SX6-KIT or R-15M’s)
  
 Malcolm
  
 V5:
  

  

  

  
 V5i:


----------



## rvcjew

whoisthis said:


> Just wondering, can the shielding be added with the Sparkos Op Amps?
> 
> I think the version is the "dual discrete" SS3602?


 
 I saw this image that shows them next to the V5 and V5i and some others, the V5i fits under the shield they look taller than those.
  
 Malcolm


----------



## saddleup

whoisthis said:


> Just wondering, can the shielding be added with the Sparkos Op Amps?
> 
> I think the version is the "dual discrete" SS3602?


 
  
  


hansolo76 said:


> I wouldn't be able to say for sure, but from looking at pictures of the Sparkos there is a good chance that it could.  You would just have to try and as long as the new Op Amps aren't taller than the copper rail in the center, you would be fine.


 

 This question was answered for me by another member in another thread just recently.  The answer is 'no', but he's never experienced any issues because of it.


----------



## Renfield1217

​Btw, new unidrivers released for the CM-8788 cards, and they sound really good.
  
 Ren


----------



## bcschmerker4

MaxedTech® has incorporated C-Media® CMI-8788 Driver 8.3.1.1825 into *UNi™ XONAR® Audio Software™ 1.81a Rev. 2*.  Looks as though C-Media International has been working on getting to the bottom of the 6 kHz scream that defied ASUSTeK's own engineers for nigh onto a decade and executing as much of a fix as the Vista audio stack permits for Microsoft® Windows® 10 Build 1607 10.0.14393.576 and later (see also "Xonar Essense stx Random LOUD high pitched Ringing Noise?").


----------



## Mahoogan

I know you can't apply Dolby Headphone through the RCA outputs, but does the EQ settings of the Xonar control panel affect the RCA outs?  Thanks


----------



## fredeb

mahoogan said:


> I know you can't apply Dolby Headphone through the RCA outputs, but does the EQ settings of the Xonar control panel affect the RCA outs?  Thanks




The equalizer does indeed affect the RCA outs .


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I'm able to finally get back and post I have been out on a trip to Canada among many other things. Burson finally did get my STX 2 back to me. They used a few zip ties to hold the V5's down. Also, I opened up the side of my case to reduce the amount of heat in there. I have been running them for over a month straight now without any issues. Everything has been great so far I also got something else in today from them that's a gift for another friend of mine that is an audiophile also.
  
 Burson has done a great job and I'm thankful they've been helpful with replacing and repairing anything that was damaged in the process. It's just nice to hear the HD 700's sing again they run beautifully on the V5 STX 2.


----------



## Mahoogan

fredeb said:


> The equalizer does indeed affect the RCA outs .




Thank you. I've received my STX 2 and like it so far. I've ordered a couple cheaper opamp to try before going Burson.

I've really been eyeing a Supreme Sound/Burson Lycan headphone amp to use with the RCA out, which has the V5 installed. Anyone have thoughts on the difference it will make over the internal amp? I get plenty of volume from the internal on my DT990 Pro, but I know there's more to the sound than just the max volume achieved.


----------



## fredeb

Why not use the headphones with the STX 2 first , for a while , that way you will at least appreciate the difference when changing opamps or using an external amplifier .

What cheap opamps did you order ? ( for interets sake ) . Let us know how your journey goes . 

@Jonathan - amazing of the folks at Burson for sorting your STX ! Did they perhaps discover what caused the problem ? I'm assuming heat re your comments on leaving the case open . Perhaps you need a more airy chassis , like those Inwin skeletal jobs , can't remember the model name now ... Anyways , I almost always left my chassis's open , being a tinkerer and all .


----------



## Mahoogan

fredeb said:


> Why not use the headphones with the STX 2 first , for a while , that way you will at least appreciate the difference when changing opamps or using an external amplifier .
> 
> What cheap opamps did you order ? ( for interets sake ) . Let us know how your journey goes .




I ordered the NEC C5470C and JRC4558D that someone else mentioned above. Even though I don't believe I'm using the buffer while using the headphone port.

The reason I was rushing a bit on the Lycan is that I am able to get a brand new one delivered for $200 from someone locally. My thought was that I could get a good amount of that back by selling if I didn't like it for whatever reason.


----------



## Powersurge

So quick question fellows, as i am very new to this. Would a DAC/AMP combo like the Fulla2 or a dedicated amp like say the Vali2 be a considered an upgrade from my Essence STX? (first version, stock opamps)
  
 I'm listening on a K712 Pro, using Flacs via foobar2k and ASIO.


----------



## PurpleAngel

powersurge said:


> So quick question fellows, as i am very new to this. Would a DAC/AMP combo like the Fulla2 or a dedicated amp like say the Vali2 be a considered an upgrade from my Essence STX? (first version, stock opamps)
> 
> I'm listening on a K712 Pro, using Flacs via foobar2k and ASIO.


 
  
 Think your better off spend up to around $60 to upgrade the op-amps in the Essence STX.
 Maybe spend $214-$250 for the Darkvoice tube headphone amplifer, connect it to the STX line-output (RCA).


----------



## gug42

Hello,
  
 Can you help me between thoses 3 options plz ? Any advice or sound signature review plz ?
 I read lots but hard to know ...
 - OPA2228 P
 - OPA2111 (KP)
 - OPA2107 AP
 - LME49720 NA
 - LF442CN
  
 Thank you in advance !
  
 Regards,


----------



## fredeb

I'd just put 2x opa1612 in the I/V section and LM6172 in the buffer and be done. I've tried all except the last opamp in your selection .


----------



## gug42

What's your impression ? sound sensation/signature ?


----------



## Maxmiz

Hello everyone,
  
 I have a ST connected to a Marantz CR510 connected to klipsch f30 in a living room of 30m2.
  
 The sound is not bad but I lack a little detail and dynamics.
  
 I would not like to add more bass, but reinforcing a bit the high mediums would be good.

 I have read more than 40 pages and frankly I'm lost, you've tested so much chip that I really do not know which ones to choose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 So if someone could give me the good references, it would be super-friendly


----------



## gug42

Did you think thoses muses 8920 are not fake ? real and good ones ?
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1PCS-Audio-Operational-Amplifier-IC-NJR-JRC-DIP-8-MUSES8920D-MUSES8920-/272070567823?hash=item3f58ab678f:g:hYUAAOSwxN5WUxza
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1-5-10-30-50pcs-New-Genuine-MUSES8920-MUSES8920D-DIP8-IC-Free-Socket-/272244653184?var=&hash=item3f630bbc80m7U7EM4A0X5F9Bu7sHJig6g
  
 Regards


----------



## fredeb

gug42 said:


> What's your impression ? sound sensation/signature ?


 
 My impression is that they are completely neutral and fast with extremely low noise-floor .
  
 2x these : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1pcs-TI-OPA1612AID-ON-DIP-ADAPTER/252603693880?_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160608112848%26meid%3D8522d03e78774357be5e2e64a3943c31%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D272244653184
  
 1x http://www.ebay.fr/itm/LM6172IN-CIRCUIT-INTEGRE-DIP-8-/322278871044?hash=item4b09515004:g:joIAAOSwUuFWzzx5
  
 The LM6172 in the buffer is praised by many in the first page of this thread , super fast , even though the datasheet makes it look as if it's not meant for audio it works extremely well in the buffer position .
  


gug42 said:


> Did you think thoses muses 8920 are not fake ? real and good ones ?
> http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1PCS-Audio-Operational-Amplifier-IC-NJR-JRC-DIP-8-MUSES8920D-MUSES8920-/272070567823?hash=item3f58ab678f:g:hYUAAOSwxN5WUxza
> http://www.ebay.fr/itm/1-5-10-30-50pcs-New-Genuine-MUSES8920-MUSES8920D-DIP8-IC-Free-Socket-/272244653184?var=&hash=item3f630bbc80m7U7EM4A0X5F9Bu7sHJig6g
> 
> Regards


 
  
 I'm sure you can trust these , if they do turn out to be fake , you can contact the seller , who will not want to be kicked off ebay .


----------



## gug42

Thank you for your return and advice 
  
 Some LM6172 are on the way.  I bought the muse too. I will test all this little thing


----------



## fredeb

gug42 said:


> Thank you for your return and advice
> 
> Some LM6172 are on the way.  I bought the muse too. I will test all this little thing


 
 Let us know how it goes ! Only use 1x LM6172 in the buffer position , it doesn't do well in the other 2 positions ( I/V stages )


----------



## gug42

Yes for sure !  in a few weeks (time to cross the ocean )
 Thx


----------



## fredeb

maxmiz said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I have a ST connected to a Marantz CR510 connected to klipsch f30 in a living room of 30m2.
> 
> ...




Somehow I think 2x OPA1612 in the I/V section is what you're looking for if you want more dynamics , a more refined sound . Look at link provided two or three posts back .


----------



## Maxmiz

fredeb said:


> Somehow I think 2x OPA1612 in the I/V section is what you're looking for if you want more dynamics , a more refined sound . Look at link provided two or three posts back .


 
  
 Thank you very much for your answer.
 In the meantime I changed amp, I switched from a Marantz cr510 to SMSL AD18. And in HP cable I switched from Rega duet to Mogami 3082.
 So, I gained in dynamics and in detail.
  
 I just have to erase some shine in the treble but not diminish them.
  
 So do I always have to go on 2x OPA161?
 And a LM6172 buffer?


----------



## fredeb

maxmiz said:


> Thank you very much for your answer.
> In the meantime I changed amp, I switched from a Marantz cr510 to SMSL AD18. And in HP cable I switched from Rega duet to Mogami 3082.
> So, I gained in dynamics and in detail.
> 
> ...




Yip ! Just like that - please report back with your findings . I'm really impressed with that combo , after having tried a whole barrage of opamps . ATM I run that into a 80wpc Linsey Hood design driving a pair of vintage B&W DM12's ( phenomenal speakers if you ever come across a pair ).

I like making up my own Mogami interconnects .


----------



## Maxmiz

fredeb said:


> Yip ! Just like that - please report back with your findings . I'm really impressed with that combo , after having tried a whole barrage of opamps . ATM I run that into a 80wpc Linsey Hood design driving a pair of vintage B&W DM12's ( phenomenal speakers if you ever come across a pair ).
> 
> I like making up my own Mogami interconnects .


 
  
 Thanks for the info, so I ordered. I'll tell you later if it makes it right.
  
 And long live the Mogami


----------



## Haik

Hi all.
 Is there any better OAMPs at this moment than OPA627 6 pieces putting to both I/V and buffer? I read all topics and some other forums. Everywhere i saw winner is original BB OPA627 amps. Or there any other things? Thanks in advance.


----------



## fredeb

haik said:


> Hi all.
> Is there any better OAMPs at this moment than OPA627 6 pieces putting to both I/V and buffer? I read all topics and some other forums. Everywhere i saw winner is original BB OPA627 amps. Or there any other things? Thanks in advance.


 
 Other than the standard opamps there are a couple of discrete offerings by Burson Audio and Sparkos .
  
 I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of 3 Burson Audio  Supreme Sound Opamps v5i . A kind of hybrid .
  
https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/
  
 Till these arrive , I'm still enjoying the OPA1612's in the I/V and a LM6172 in the buffer .


----------



## Haik

fredeb said:


> I'm still enjoying t


 
 Is these better than OPA627 AD825 combination? And where can i buy genuine ones of that 2 ics?


----------



## fredeb

haik said:


> Is these better than OPA627 AD825 combination? And where can i buy genuine ones of that 2 ics?


 
 Unfortunately I have not tried OPA627 or AD825 - so all I can do is compare specification sheets .
  
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/LM6172IN-NOPB/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsko7UDAsUSIUiwSwkIwRbLiUMrrH65y7g%3d
  
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/OPA1612AID/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtxdzBvM0rKcSBSa86la16Fc0OGuY6L6Lo%3d
  
 For the 2x OPA1612's you require 2x SOIC-8 to DIP-8 adapters .


----------



## zilch0md

rvcjew said:


> I saw this image that shows them next to the V5 and V5i and some others, the V5i fits under the shield they look taller than those.
> 
> Malcolm


 
  
 This makes it a lot easier to compare the sizes.  Thanks!
  
 I found the original, tweaked the perspective and annotated it:


----------



## Renfield1217

Hi zilch0md,
  
 Great picture, however you should not use it for height comparisons. The Sparkos opamp clearly has an additional socket attached ( Sparkos sends out their opamps with an additional socket attached to protect the
 gold plated pins and of course this shouldbe removed before installation). In fact, it looks like the Sonic Imagery also has an additional socket attached in the pict.
 I checked my 5Vi's and it looks like they are sitting correctly.
  
 Hope this helps,
 Ren


----------



## zilch0md

^ It's not my photograph, but yeah, hopefully, people would notice the stacked sockets when they view the enlarged image.  Then again, I know someone who bought the SS3602 and complained that it was too tall for his application. He was surprised when I then suggested that he just remove the extra DIP8 socket. That did the trick.  So...  I guess we can't assume people will figure out that those sockets can be removed, even when they've got the op-amps in their hands. It's just a matter of knowledge and experience, not intelligence.


----------



## bcschmerker4

rvcjew said:


> whoisthis said:
> 
> 
> > Just wondering, can the shielding be added with the Sparkos Op Amps?
> ...


 
*Thanks for the photo comparison.*  Looks as though I might be able to use a bit of Antec® Formula 7™ thermal compound on the Burson® V5i to heat-sink it to the RFI shield on my STX.


----------



## Fiskus

Any recommendation on Opamps for HD800?
 Will probably replace the soundcard with a dedicated dac in the future but for now i will use my stx-card and whould be nice if there was a better one suited instead of the stock.


----------



## PurpleAngel

fiskus said:


> Any recommendation on Opamps for HD800?
> Will probably replace the soundcard with a dedicated dac in the future but for now i will use my stx-card and whould be nice if there was a better one suited instead of the stock.


 
  
 Budget for upgrading op-amps?
 I myself spend about $60 for three AD797BR op-amps.


----------



## jimwallen

I'm using the Burson Supreme op amps on my STX II. Awesome. https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/


----------



## Fiskus

jimwallen said:


> I'm using the Burson Supreme op amps on my STX II. Awesome. https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/


 
  
 How does the Burson affect the music compered to the originals?


----------



## jimwallen

Greater depth. Clarity, bass, mids and highs are all improved greatly. Separation, imaging of the sound stage are improved dramatically. It's really like night and day, and worth it. I think there is a trial period for them, but I don't remember for sure.


----------



## Renfield1217

jimwallen said:


> Greater depth. Clarity, bass, mids and highs are all improved greatly. Separation, imaging of the sound stage are improved dramatically. It's really like night and day, and worth it. I think there is a trial period for them, but I don't remember for sure.


 

 Hi jimwallen,
  
 I also run an STXII and I agree on the discrete opamps, I am running Sparkos and simply love them. Just a heads up for people considering, Sparkos runs an ebay store also where you can make an offer and it's only $6 shipping in the US.
  
 Ren


----------



## fredeb

I'm waiting for a couple of Burson V5i's to arrive . When they do , I'll give my impressions here . ATM my STX has OPA1612 installed , I'm quite impressed , the best I've experienced before going discrete .


----------



## Renfield1217

fredeb said:


> I'm waiting for a couple of Burson V5i's to arrive . When they do , I'll give my impressions here . ATM my STX has OPA1612 installed , I'm quite impressed , the best I've experienced before going discrete .


 

 hi fredeb,
  
 And great, let us know your thoughts. They take some time to break in, so be aware of that. If you are using these in an original STX  you should be fine. I think there is an issue with them and the STXII since the STXII has decoupling caps on the card, where the STX does not.
 They should be a nice upgrade from the OPA1612's though. Darker, better bass, and will make most anything sound better (ie; forgiving).
 Looking forward to your impressions...
 Ren


----------



## jimwallen

I've not had any issues with my STXII and the Burson's.


----------



## Renfield1217

jimwallen said:


> I've not had any issues with my STXII and the Burson's.


 

 Hi jimwallen,
  
 And great to hear. 
 My post was just my observations of Burson 5Vi's in an STXII. Was not meant that everyone would have the same experience. I liked the 5VI's, at their price point they are very good opamps.
 Perhaps had I never ran full discrete opamps before trying the V5i's I would have liked them better.
 But, it would be interesting to know if the V5i's circuitry included decoupling caps, especially since the STXII already has them.
  
 Ren


----------



## Muad'dib

Figured I'd chime in as I was upgrading my Xonar Essence ST to Burson V5i's and its been a nightmare so far.  Put v5i's in both the opamp and buffer and I always get a loud noise that starts to sweep frequencies. 
  
 Been trying to get some help from Burson but its been weeks and not much luck at all.  Been testing them in the buffer space alone for defects, but when I told them one had bad balance they thought the problem was identified and just sent another one problem solved... problem is I already bought a spare from them and told them the 3 others were still not working together, when I reminded them of that they said, "I am sure you can put back the set of three in there. Just make sure they have some sort of reinforcement pressing them down to the PCB." *facepalm*
  
 After longer testing in the buffer I found they start to cut out with loud pops in one channel, and if i played a strong signal back and tried to mute that channel it would pump out quite a  bit of noise, but otherwise it would be hard to tell anything was wrong in buffer but when put in I/V and buffer definite sweeping noises would creep in almost immediately.
  
 Anyone else have this experience with the burson opamps? Really didnt think all 4 would be unusable.


----------



## Voxata

No, this is very odd behavior. Are any sockets damaged?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

This usually happens because they are not secure and need a cool/well ventilated environment. Burson had sent me 3 sets of amp's from my first 3 that I had damaged and they worked extensively with me to fix the problem. They seem to get hot pretty fast otherwise which destroys them.


muad'dib said:


> Figured I'd chime in as I was upgrading my Xonar Essence ST to Burson V5i's and its been a nightmare so far.  Put v5i's in both the opamp and buffer and I always get a loud noise that starts to sweep frequencies.
> 
> Been trying to get some help from Burson but its been weeks and not much luck at all.  Been testing them in the buffer space alone for defects, but when I told them one had bad balance they thought the problem was identified and just sent another one problem solved... problem is I already bought a spare from them and told them the 3 others were still not working together, when I reminded them of that they said, "I am sure you can put back the set of three in there. Just make sure they have some sort of reinforcement pressing them down to the PCB." *facepalm*
> 
> ...


----------



## Muad'dib

The sockets dont appear to have any damage, after taking the burson opamps out havent had a problem and I've looked at the socket closely since trying this out.
  
 Interesting about the temps, I'd definitely heard if they have bad contact and or slide out it they could definitely overheat and cause damage, didnt realize they were actually super sensitive to temps otherwise. 
  
 As it is in this case, it is a well ventilated case, got 3k rpm noctua's in there that gets a bit a flow over the card and out the empty slot below it, and in testing I periodically checked the opamps to see if they were overheating and didnt have a problem.


jonathan crouch said:


> This usually happens because they are not secure and need a cool/well ventilated environment. Burson had sent me 3 sets of amp's from my first 3 that I had damaged and they worked extensively with me to fix the problem. They seem to get hot pretty fast otherwise which destroys them.


 

 What did you end up doing to ensure they dont over heat? something like making sure there was an open slot beneath the car to vent?  Can't think of anything more I can do in that regard, and they definitely didn't budge out of their socket, just as snug as in initial when checked.


----------



## Muad'dib

Hey also curious jonathan, it sounds like such an issue would creep up over time, is that the case? I ask cause I got the sweeping noises immediately after install, didnt seem like there was time for overheating to be an issue.
  
 Edit: Nvm read through your post history, intense, but it sounds like you didnt resolve the issues, that you ended up switching to another soundcard, is that the case?


----------



## Haik

Hello. I have 3 pcs AD8620AR AD823 genuine from AD, 4pcs LM6172IN and 2 pcs OPA1612AID 4xOPA627AU from Texas and  LT1634CN. So what combination will better?


----------



## fredeb

haik said:


> Hello. I have 3 pcs AD8620AR AD823 genuine from AD, 4pcs LM6172IN and 2 pcs OPA1612AID 4xOPA627AU from Texas and  LT1634CN. So what combination will better?


 
 I'd start with 1x LM6172IN in the buffer position and 2x OPA1612AID in the I/V section , and try all the rest in the I/V section and see which sound you prefer . We all have our own ears , and one man's meat is anothers poison . Play with them - there's a time and a place for everything . Try different styles of music , acoustic , electric , vocal etc.


----------



## Haik

I set 3 AD8620AR at this moment and they sounds very very good. I don't think there can be better sound. But not yet tried others, because i wait for soic 2 dip adapters. I soldered directly AD8620 temporary until they come.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

muad'dib said:


> Hey also curious jonathan, it sounds like such an issue would creep up over time, is that the case? I ask cause I got the sweeping noises immediately after install, didnt seem like there was time for overheating to be an issue.
> 
> Edit: Nvm read through your post history, intense, but it sounds like you didnt resolve the issues, that you ended up switching to another soundcard, is that the case?


 
 The issues were resolved by securing them. I have been using them for almost 3 months now without problems. I'll post pictures of mine soon


----------



## fredeb

*Burson Audio Supreme Sound Op amp V5i Dual review*
  
  
  
 I was approached by Charles from Burson Audio to see if i would like to review the Supreme Sound V5i . Yeah ! For sure I'd be interested . This was on the 22nd of February , and finally , about a week ago , 3 beautiful Supreme Sound Op amp V5i's arrived . 2 months sounds about right for the understaffed , under-payed  South African Postal Service employees . 
  
 The V5i's ( and Burson Audios other op amps ) come in a dual op amp or single op amp  package , I was approached due to my involvement in the STX op amp thread , and was thus sent 3x dual channel versions of the V5i . If you have a Xonar Essence STX or STXll , these are what you need . Other devices may require single channel versions , check the data sheet of your current op amps to be sure which version you need .
  
 Homepage : https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/
  
 Data-sheet : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bxn23njCr8VCWGh4bHBZYTVLYWs/view
  
                                                       
  
  
 First off , I tried 1x V5i in a WM8740/DIR9001* *DAC board from eBay . I previously had inserted an OPA1612AID in place of the stock JRC5532 into the single op amp socket , and had wondered how on earth the sound could possibly get any better . I was using the DAC at my workshop - feeding it FLAC files from my laptop . The DAC then feeds a vintage ~1970 Pioneer SM-83 Push/Pull valve amplifier , which in turn drive full-range vintage Goodman Twin axiom 10's . 
  
  
     
  

  
  
  
  
 Second , I tried all 3 V5i's in the Xonar STX in my home PC - feeding a vintage ~1989 JL Hood/Hart K1100series mosfet amplifier that is driving vintage B&W DM12's ( superb monitors if you ever come across a pair ) . The Xonar STX has up until now had 2x OPA1612AID in the I/V section and a LM6172IN in the buffer . 
  
 JL Hood/Hart K1100 :  http://www.angelfire.com/sd/paulkemble/sound3d.html
  
                                                 
  
  
  
  
  
 I have a couple of reference tracks that I listen to , to evaluate various gear that I own . One of my references is Al di Meola's " Traces of a Tear " from the album " Cielo e Terra " . What I immediately noticed is that the  sound is much fuller , bass is more well-defined , and timbre seems more accurate . In case you don't know what timbre means : " In music, *timbre* (/ˈtæmbər/ _*tam*-bər_, also known as *tone color* or *tone quality* from psycho-acoustics) is the perceived sound quality of a musical note, sound, or tone that distinguishes different types of sound production, such as choir voices and musical instruments, such as string instruments, wind instruments, and percussion instruments, and which enables listeners to hear even different instruments from the same category as different (e.g. a viola and a violin). " . Yes - it means a violin sounds like it's meant to - accurate portrayal of timbre . Separation is also quite exceptional , I can hear the over-laid voices , guitars , every seed dropping from the rain-stick , and chimes clearly and individually , including the fingers sliding on the strings . Amazing ! Decay is excellent , fast - sound stops to dead silence instantaneously , when it should . The sound is syrupy sweet , warm in a musical sense - I'm guessing that odd and even order harmonics were paid attention to in the design of this op amp - this is possible in valve and solid-state design if the designer has an awareness of it .
  
Here's an article to familiarize yourself with different types of distortion : http://douglas-self.com/ampins/dipa/dipa.htm
  
                                                  
  
 Next I thought I'd try a little psychedelic music - White Zombies' " More Human Than Human " (Meet Bambi In The King's Harem Mix) from their album " Supersexy Swingin' Sounds " . All the glorious power that this track portends is present as is right in psychedelic carnival world of White Zombie . The " fullness " of sound I mentioned earlier does not polarize the fullness in " More Human Than Human " , but only enhances the sound . The various layers within each other portrayed quite clearly , it's getting late and I must remember not to alienate my elderly neighbors .   All the twisted , horror bits woven through the various tracks further into the album are made plain by the V5i's , loving them ! I totally get Renfield1217 statement earlier re darkness of the bass . And so listenable , never fatiguing , well balanced , straight-forward and honest . 
  
  
                                    
  
 I trully didn't believe the sound could get any better , and it has , astoundingly so . Wow !
  
 Burson Audio are certainly on track with this phenominal product - get some now ! 
  
 if I get time , I'm gonna stick these babies in my phonostage too !


----------



## Muad'dib (Apr 27, 2017)

Jonathan Crouch said:


> The issues were resolved by securing them. I have been using them for almost 3 months now without problems. I'll post pictures of mine soon



Thanks but your info doesn't seem to be related as you mentioned using the V5, I am using the V5i-d's, they are much smaller, and I can tell you they never moved a milimeter out during my testing. In fact I have the single replacement they offered right now in the buffer and it also shows immediate issues. Similarly they were well ventilated and tested for being hot.

I wonder if someone else with V5i's in their essence ST could test if you can mute one channel and play music t hrough the other?  I just got 1 replacement opamp from them to try in the buffer and it will produce very loud scratching noises through the muted channel, would be interested if people can tell me their clearly pass the test.


----------



## gfache

Muad'dib said:


> Thanks but your info doesn't seem to be related as you mentioned using the V5, I am using the V5i-d's, they are much smaller, and I can tell you they never moved a milimeter out during my testing. In fact I have the single replacement they offered right now in the buffer and it also shows immediate issues. Similarly they were well ventilated and tested for being hot.
> 
> I wonder if someone else with V5i's in their essence ST could test if you can mute one channel and play music t hrough the other?  I just got 1 replacement opamp from them to try in the buffer and it will produce very loud scratching noises through the muted channel, would be interested if people can tell me their clearly pass the test.



Hello Muad'dib,
I've also the STX2 unto which I set 3 Burson V5i and get the sweeping noises immediately after install. I was thinking to interferences between the card and the speakers (Dynaudio BM5A) but by changing cables, assuring the cable be far from power cable it didn't fixed it. I finally get an exellent fix by replcing the buffer aop by one of the remaining Muse 8920. The sound is really good in this configuration using the HIFI mode in asus software.


----------



## Muad'dib (May 1, 2017)

gfache said:


> Hello Muad'dib,
> I've also the STX2 unto which I set 3 Burson V5i and get the sweeping noises immediately after install. I was thinking to interferences between the card and the speakers (Dynaudio BM5A) but by changing cables, assuring the cable be far from power cable it didn't fixed it. I finally get an exellent fix by replcing the buffer aop by one of the remaining Muse 8920. The sound is really good in this configuration using the HIFI mode in asus software.



Welcome to head-fi gfache. Actually I have the Asus Xonar ST so I dont have muse opamps in there, but thats an interesting idea to try if the opamps havent actually self destructed like the crackle pop sounds make it seem like,

EDIT: Well I tried it with my previous opamp and it still popped and crackled, no noises to warn of that coming though this time.
After I ran the test I realized I already had tested just the I/V by trying the builtin headphone amp but that also crackled and popped.  Oh well something else to try at least.


----------



## Reyer (May 5, 2017)

Hello.
I'm total newbie equipped in Xonar STX and Superlux HMC631 headphones. I know that the latter is not some high end quality product but still this headphones are considered as "above average" in their price range. If modifying my STX won't help I will probably buy something better to replace them in the near future.
My only concern is that the most of the time when I listen to music it feels like everything is blurred a bit, like if I had some blanket or towel wrapped around my head. Scene feels a little unnaturally, like it's more "flat" than it should be and also is slightly "warped" on some invisible bubble about 1,5-2m behind that blanket. Just like if I was sitting in a middle of the ball with soft rubber walls.
On the other side overall quality and sounds distinction is really good. Good enough to make me take off headphones from time to time just because I heard some realistic noise/sound/call on a track that felt like it was placed somewhere next to me, in reality.

First - I want to fix that blurry sounding with opamps but I would like to know few things:
1. Will placing for example 1x OPA1612 and 2x LME49990 sound dramatically different than 1x LME49990 and 2x OPA1612? What exactly changes in terms of quality that alone opamp.
2. Is there any way to determine if I bought a fake opamp without having any experience on this topic (beside of having worse or better sounding audio system in comparison to what I had before)?
3. Which set of opamps would be better to fix my problem and in which combination? I've researched a bit and heard good things on such opamps - OPA1612, LME49860 and LME49990.

Second - I may try to modify the rest of the card later so I would like to know if there was some guide regarding changing capacitors, oscillator and such stuff that would guide future semi-newbie with a lesser chance of destroying something. I know that I ask for a lot but it's a bit hard to search through the 370 pages on one site, 390 on other and 270 somewhere else. If you, by a chance, have encountered some guide and luckily you've saved a link to it i would be very grateful. If not, tough luck, I'll just keep slowly digging through the internet, page by page.

Thanks for help, no matter how big, I'll appreciate everything.


----------



## alphanumerix1 (May 8, 2017)

Hey all,

I still have the stock setup with my stx whats the best way to go upgrade wise before going to the Burson V5s?

From the reading I've been doing the muses are quite an upgrade in SQ?


----------



## Renfield1217

alphanumerix1 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I still have the stock setup with my stx whats the best way to go upgrade wise before going to the Burson V5s?
> 
> From the reading I've been doing the muses are quite an upgrade in SQ?



Hi alphanumerix1,

Personally I would think about the Burson V5i's. before going fully discrete, it would be a big step up from stock monolithic opamps, and give you a taste of the Burson sound to see if you like it.
Muse make some great monolithic op amps, but if you are thinking of going Burson discrete, I would try the V5i's first will save you time and money.
Ren


----------



## alphanumerix1

Renfield1217 said:


> Hi alphanumerix1,
> 
> Personally I would think about the Burson V5i's. before going fully discrete, it would be a big step up from stock monolithic opamps, and give you a taste of the Burson sound to see if you like it.
> Muse make some great monolithic op amps, but if you are thinking of going Burson discrete, I would try the V5i's first will save you time and money.
> Ren



Thanks for the reply i think i will go that route first. Appreciate it.


----------



## Reyer

Reyer said:


> [...] when I listen to music it feels like everything is blurred a bit, like if I had some blanket or towel wrapped around my head. Scene feels a little unnaturally, like it's more "flat" than it should be and also is slightly "warped" on some invisible bubble about 1,5-2m behind that blanket. Just like if I was sitting in a middle of the ball with soft rubber walls.


For those with similar problem or experience - I've changed stock headphones opamps for OPA1612 and it helped a lot. Scene is much bigger with much better positioning and sound separation. Bass is now on point and it's not flooding and blurring whole scene anymore... but I feel that it lacks some power. I've ordered 4x LME49990 and I will see if they'll suit me better in that matter.


----------



## Muad'dib

Reyer said:


> For those with similar problem or experience - I've changed stock headphones opamps for OPA1612 and it helped a lot. Scene is much bigger with much better positioning and sound separation. Bass is now on point and it's not flooding and blurring whole scene anymore... but I feel that it lacks some power. I've ordered 4x LME49990 and I will see if they'll suit me better in that matter.



Hey reyer just chiming in to ask how you're luck was with the lme49990, I have 4x those as well but I use an external amp so I have to decide what to use with them in the buffer so Im still using lme49860's in all spots though its pretty similar to stock. Unfortunately the v5i's didnt work out as they wouldn't even function in my system properly so I'm back to checking out other options.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Renfield1217 said:


> Hi alphanumerix1,
> 
> Personally I would think about the Burson V5i's. before going fully discrete, it would be a big step up from stock monolithic opamps, and give you a taste of the Burson sound to see if you like it.
> Muse make some great monolithic op amps, but if you are thinking of going Burson discrete, I would try the V5i's first will save you time and money.
> Ren





Muad'dib said:


> Hey reyer just chiming in to ask how you're luck was with the lme49990, I have 4x those as well but I use an external amp so I have to decide what to use with them in the buffer so Im still using lme49860's in all spots though its pretty similar to stock. Unfortunately the v5i's didnt work out as they wouldn't even function in my system properly so I'm back to checking out other options.



*Thanks for the heads up on a suspected incompatibility.*  Looks as though I may have to rule the Burson® V5i out of further consideration for the I-V on _my_ XONARESSENCESTX/A; the Sparkos® SS3602 is the other hybrid-IC candidate.  I've monolithic IC's shortlisted for a line-level buffer upgrade, as I'm saving up for a Heil Sound™ Pro Set™ (iC ideal, MediaPro acceptable) to run on the Hot Rod, after a cable upgrade to dual 6.3mm TRS, and check out for performance quirks - the tuned earcups, originally intended for maximum performance in a communications environment, may or may not hurt music playback.


----------



## Muad'dib

Well just to mention my soundcard is the xonar essence ST not STX, and I think some have chimed in here about it working on the ST but I can't personally vouch for any of that as in my system they would make a background noise that would oscillate and then after a bit they would just start cutting out entirely, much more so when used in the I/V than just the buffer, replacement had same issue in the buffer alone, never got a full replacement sent, burson was done at testing 1 new one in the buffer which showed the same issues, so I had to put in for refund at that point.   Though another point is that the sparkos is much more of a discrete opamp, if you look at the pictures inside the shield of v5i its a single ic with a few caps and resistors.


----------



## Muad'dib

bcschmerker4 said:


> *Thanks for the heads up on a suspected incompatibility.*  Looks as though I may have to rule the Burson® V5i out of further consideration for the I-V on _my_ XONARESSENCESTX/A; the Sparkos® SS3602 is the other hybrid-IC candidate.  I've monolithic IC's shortlisted for a line-level buffer upgrade, as I'm saving up for a Heil Sound™ Pro Set™ (iC ideal, MediaPro acceptable) to run on the Hot Rod, after a cable upgrade to dual 6.3mm TRS, and check out for performance quirks - the tuned earcups, originally intended for maximum performance in a communications environment, may or may not hurt music playback.



I was checking the feedback on the v5i's at burson and there is a new user who even had an STX2 that just posted this last week "Big difference in sound quality from the muses. Detail and clarity are pronounced. But I’m having popping and cracking sounds with 3 of them installed still investigating…." So it seems others are having this issue as well on more than just the ST, it would be a shame if this were just a recent QC problem out of hong kong and whatever factory they originate.


----------



## glad (Jun 29, 2017)

You guys should try Tz amps.


> These are much purer at handling the mirror-artifacts present on all non oversampled DA outputs, which extend into the many M\Hz. Back in the day, that was the theoretical ultimatum in choice for designs - a digital filter placed before the converter [to suppress images digitally] can otherwise be replaced by this capable but more expensive analog stage, placed after. However these were somewhat of a secret among IC designers, let alone product manufacturers - and expensive. About $40 in 1990 for the military grade' AD846 / OPA600.
> Theyre cheaper now, one of the more recent ones is the LME47913. Interesting thread on its development here. (once in a lifetime thread that). Its nothing short of 'current conveying' which is exactly what a tube does. Of course tubes were/are uneconomical. They make you realize how petty the art of sound card 'Op amp rolling' is.



Source


----------



## Muad'dib

glad said:


> You guys should try Tz amps.
> 
> 
> Source



Pretty sure we are, that post just recommends something like the lme47913 an old variant of the lme49860.  I didnt know before but I think "tz amp" is just a circuit description, I think you might have confused it as a brand, might be as described here, enjoy! http://www.jensign.com/noisegain/index.html


----------



## Vartan

Hi guys
I all ready have LME49990 on I/V part. Will it be right to put one more LME49990 on buffer part?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Vartan said:


> Hi guys
> I all ready have LME49990 on I/V part. Will it be right to put one more LME49990 on buffer part?


The buffer op-amp is for the line-output (RCA) port and does not effect the headphone output.
But yes, you can install the LME49990 op-amp into the STX's buffer slot.


----------



## Vartan

I know that, I use line out with other amps


----------



## Voxata

Burson V6 is coming... I can't wait to lay ears on it!


----------



## Oubadah (Dec 22, 2019)

.


----------



## Muad'dib

I believe the STX was discontinued in 2012, to answer your question, it seems you are looking in places that only handled the overstock, dont know where to suggest not even knowing your region, but amazon here in north america is still selling the STX II, and the asus site still lists the STX II... so someday somehow, you should be able to find the STX II, but the STX may have finally depleted the main supply.  Real shame is I want another ST in case mine dies... that'd probably be hard to find.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Oubadah said:


> Has the STX been discontinued? All the stock seems to have dried up in my country. There's no STX II stock either, but there never really was here - there was still plentiful STX stock in mid-2015 when I purchased my last one, while the STX II was impossible to get.
> 
> I'm sure everyone was still selling the STX when I looked last year. Now when I go to buy one, nothing.





Muad'dib said:


> I believe the STX was discontinued in 2012, to answer your question, it seems you are looking in places that only handled the overstock, dont know where to suggest not even knowing your region, but amazon here in north america is still selling the STX II, and the asus site still lists the STX II... so someday somehow, you should be able to find the STX II, but the STX may have finally depleted the main supply.  Real shame is I want another ST in case mine dies... that'd probably be hard to find.


*Thanks for the notes on availability.*  I anticipate some rebuild on the Hot Rod gPC™, and my first target is the original ST, as I need PCI 2.2 due to anticipated need for both PCIe slots for other requirements on either the Gigabyte® GA-MA78GM-S2HP currently installed or (if I can't get the stock ITC® super multi-I/O to behave) a GA-MA785GM-US2H.  (I'm transferring the ASUS® EAH6850/2DIS/1GD5 from the CM1630-06 when I land a 4+ GiB video card to operate under Microsoft® Window_s_® 10.0.17604._nnn_; Win 10 is a video-memory hog compared to 6.1.7601.)  The STX II restores the expandability of the original ST in a PCIe x1 format.


----------



## Muad'dib

bcschmerker4 said:


> *Thanks for the notes on availability.*  I anticipate some rebuild on the Hot Rod gPC™, and my first target is the original ST, as I need PCI 2.2 due to anticipated need for both PCIe slots for other requirements on either the Gigabyte® GA-MA78GM-S2HP currently installed or (if I can't get the stock ITC® super multi-I/O to behave) a GA-MA785GM-US2H.  (I'm transferring the ASUS® EAH6850/2DIS/1GD5 from the CM1630-06 when I land a 4+ GiB video card to operate under Microsoft® Window_s_® 10.0.17604._nnn_; Win 10 is a video-memory hog compared to 6.1.7601.)  The STX II restores the expandability of the original ST in a PCIe x1 format.



Yep, obviously I can confirm my ST is pci, works with an H6 card.  And that yes if you can find it, I believe the original ST has the best SNR, and build quality, of all the essence line.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Voxata said:


> Burson V6 is coming... I can't wait to lay ears on it!



There's a v6 now?


----------



## Shredicus

alphanumerix1 said:


> There's a v6 now?



Yes, I've got a set on the way as well for my ST I/V stages. Looks promising!


----------



## Jay Callen

Shredicus said:


> Yes, I've got a set on the way as well for my ST I/V stages. Looks promising!




Hello Shredicus,

As owner of two defective V5 (both failed after ~200 hours in STXII I/V stages), I'm curious to know whether your V6 order is 1.) new purchase, or 2.) warranty replacement for V5?

Thanks.


----------



## alphanumerix1 (Jul 28, 2017)

Shredicus said:


> Yes, I've got a set on the way as well for my ST I/V stages. Looks promising!



Oh right v6 vivid and classic.

Nice, My stx needs upgrade for sure.

Do i get dual or single? 2 or 3 of each?


----------



## Shredicus

Jay Callen said:


> Hello Shredicus,
> 
> As owner of two defective V5 (both failed after ~200 hours in STXII I/V stages), I'm curious to know whether your V6 order is 1.) new purchase, or 2.) warranty replacement for V5?
> 
> Thanks.



New purchase. I've seen some other users posting issues similar to yours. Hoping the v6 is more robust.



alphanumerix1 said:


> Oh right v6 vivid and classic.
> 
> Nice, My stx needs upgrade for sure.
> 
> Do i get dual or single? 2 or 3 of each?



Our cards use 3 dual opamps. I bought 2 for I/V stage since I really only use the headphone jack. For speaker listening add 1 more for the buffer stage. I opted for vivid as well.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Shredicus said:


> New purchase. I've seen some other users posting issues similar to yours. Hoping the v6 is more robust.
> 
> 
> 
> Our cards use 3 dual opamps. I bought 2 for I/V stage since I really only use the headphone jack. For speaker listening add 1 more for the buffer stage. I opted for vivid as well.



Thank you

Ill get the 3 as i do speaker listening also.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Voxata said:


> Burson V6 is coming... I can't wait to lay ears on it!



Did they arrive? impressions?


----------



## flea22

Hello guys, was looking around for a desktop headphone amp for my lcd 3's, was thinking this could be a good option seeing I all ready have the stx. Would the burson v6 on the stx be able to drive the audeze lcd 3's? I really dont have the desk space for a external amp. The other option I was looking at was the woo audio firefly because of the size and I love the look of it. Also I'm a noob and have no idea what i'm doing.
Cheers Leigh


----------



## Muad'dib (Aug 11, 2017)

Leigh Quigg said:


> Hello guys, was looking around for a desktop headphone amp for my lcd 3's, was thinking this could be a good option seeing I all ready have the stx. Would the burson v6 on the stx be able to drive the audeze lcd 3's? I really dont have the desk space for a external amp. The other option I was looking at was the woo audio firefly because of the size and I love the look of it. Also I'm a noob and have no idea what i'm doing.
> Cheers Leigh



Hi Leigh, this post is about opamp upgrades to the asus xonar, these go BETWEEN the dac inside the xonar and its internal headphone AMP, so this isn't an upgrade for the amp itself, these are attempts simply to refine the DAC sound going to the internal amp or to an external amp, so its unlikely to change its ability to drive something like the lcd-3's, other than possible making it output nothing but noises and crackles before it dies (a common occurence with the burson).  The internal amp should be adequately capable of driving the lcd-3's but I dont own them and am not looking at the specs, but it sounds like you have them, so I'll say if the volume level is the problem you need to find a different option for a headphone amp, this thread doesn't have headphone amp discussions, although seemingly plenty of australian users like yourself and burson sales people...


----------



## 481680

so I have the STX2 and so far I like it alot. but I'm upgrading my pc and getting a pair of monitor speakers (Adam A7X) 
and thought I should really upgrade my amps while at it.
do any of you have experience with pairing V5i's and Muse 8920 or sparkos ss3602 combo?
I was thinking V5i's on I/V and Muse 8920 or sparkos SS3602 on buffer?
how do you think this would work?


----------



## flea22

Muad'dib said:


> Hi Leigh, this post is about opamp upgrades to the asus xonar, these go BETWEEN the dac inside the xonar and its internal headphone AMP, so this isn't an upgrade for the amp itself, these are attempts simply to refine the DAC sound going to the internal amp or to an external amp, so its unlikely to change its ability to drive something like the lcd-3's, other than possible making it output nothing but noises and crackles before it dies (a common occurence with the burson).  The internal amp should be adequately capable of driving the lcd-3's but I dont own them and am not looking at the specs, but it sounds like you have them, so I'll say if the volume level is the problem you need to find a different option for a headphone amp, this thread doesn't have headphone amp discussions, although seemingly plenty of australian users like yourself and burson sales people...



Thanks for the info, I ended up getting a wa7, I still want to try the wa7 with the stx. Im not going to use the stx headphone amp. So will I only need 2 burson v6 opamp's? Dont want to spend money I dont have too. If anyone could answer this question that would be great.


----------



## recepky

Raine said:


> so I have the STX2 and so far I like it alot. but I'm upgrading my pc and getting a pair of monitor speakers (Adam A7X)
> and thought I should really upgrade my amps while at it.
> do any of you have experience with pairing V5i's and Muse 8920 or sparkos ss3602 combo?
> I was thinking V5i's on I/V and Muse 8920 or sparkos SS3602 on buffer?
> how do you think this would work?



I am using 2 sonic imagery 994enh on IV stage and 1 burson v5 on buffer, very impressive, you can start with IVs, I strongly recommend sonic imagery  opamps


----------



## 481680 (Aug 28, 2017)

recepky said:


> sonic imagery 994enh


well with that price tag, it should be impressive 

but I'm planing to mainly listen to RCA outputs. not sure how I should pick my op amps because it's the first time upgrading for me.
I've been thinking two *V5i*'s and one *LT1028ACN8 *or* LT1010 *buffer
want to get the most out of my monitors. could also afford to spend up to 100$ for amps, but can't have anything that would protrude through EM shield.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I decided to sell my Burson V5-D modded STX 2 if anyone is looking to buy one.
This is the link I have it for sell on Ebay currently. http://www.ebay.com/itm/263242615165?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649


----------



## Voxata (Oct 10, 2017)

Figured I'd post an update here as my last Essence STX w/V5s has officially been retired from HTPC duty and gifted to a friend. I'm now running a Burson Play! with V6 Vivid OpAmps. On the STX the V5's to me were the best opamp option as they help with soundstage height, punch and authority. I really enjoyed the combo however the micro detail presentation would be the biggest weakness to me. I saw some mods using resistors on the back of the STX that would supposedly help this problem a bit however, not solve it. When listening to the STX I have the urge to crank the volume through the roof. As if my brain was craving more information in a way. With the Play! I'm able to keep my volume lower and the detail retrieval is on another level. The euphoric presentation is still there too. There is also a preamp out rear panel, front 1/4 jack and 3.5mm mic in - plus a remote and it is 5.25 form factor with external desk mount option. So, no more using my keyboard hotkeys on the couch haha. I'll be getting into some comparisons later this week for those who want more info from an early adopter but seeing used OpAmp STXs go for $200 range I can't see a single reason to not just get a Play instead. More to come soon, fellow PC Master Race friends.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Voxata said:


> Figured I'd post an update here as my last Essence STX w/V5s has officially been retired from HTPC duty and gifted to a friend. I'm now running a Burson Play! with V6 Vivid OpAmps. On the STX the V5's to me were the best opamp option as they help with soundstage height, punch and authority. I really enjoyed the combo however the micro detail presentation would be the biggest weakness to me. I saw some mods using resistors on the back of the STX that would supposedly help this problem a bit however, not solve it. When listening to the STX I have the urge to crank the volume through the roof. As if my brain was craving more information in a way. With the Play! I'm able to keep my volume lower and the detail retrieval is on another level. The euphoric presentation is still there too. There is also a preamp out rear panel, front 1/4 jack and 3.5mm mic in - plus a remote and it is 5.25 form factor with external desk mount option. So, no more using my keyboard hotkeys on the couch haha. I'll be getting into some comparisons later this week for those who want more info from an early adopter but seeing used OpAmp STXs go for $200 range I can't see a single reason to not just get a Play instead. More to come soon, fellow PC Master Race friends.


They’re already shipping? I didn’t think they were shipping until the 15th o.O


----------



## Voxata (Oct 11, 2017)

That's obviously a soft date, they seem to be shipping sooner I'm not the only one shipped to yet.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Voxata said:


> That's obviously a soft date, they seem to be shipping to some sooner I'm not the only one shipped to yet.



Alright hopefully mine will be in soon too. I ordered mine back the first day they were available to order. I already sold my STX 2 so I'm eagerly awaiting this one. I have a conductor air I ordered from them a while back that I've been using that I still prefer to the STX but this should be a fairly sizeable upgrade to even that and it will mount inside a desktop too which will help a lot.


----------



## Voxata

Mine took some email communication, I'm sure it'll ship soon. I also liked the STX over the Air in all but detail retrieval depending on the system used. The play just kills the STX though in everything. I'm primarily using AKG K702s and a Carver M200T with Event 20/20 monitors. Very, very revealing setups.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Voxata said:


> Mine took some email communication, I'm sure it'll ship soon. I also liked the STX over the Air in all but detail retrieval depending on the system used. The play just kills the STX though in everything. I'm primarily using AKG K702s and a Carver M200T with Event 20/20 monitors. Very, very revealing setups.



I use the HD 700's for my pair of cans. The 700's and 800's tend to be extremely picky over their signal source versus other headsets I've used. Thus far I've found Burson's products to be the best for them.


----------



## Voxata (Oct 11, 2017)

The play would be a good match with vivid opamps for those cans I believe. I found this to be forgiving of harsh treble yet still detailed and enjoyable. On the 702s through my other gear I have trouble enjoying EDM and other treble sharp genres for long. On the play I feel like I can listen to the K702s for hours and the engagement is excellent. It's not rounded or smoothed over up top, everything is present - just not piercing.


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Voxata said:


> The play would be a good match with vivid opamps for those cans I believe. I found this to be forgiving of harsh treble yet still detailed and enjoyable. On the 702s through my other gear I have trouble enjoying EDM and other treble sharp genres for long. On the play I feel like I can listen to the K702s for hours and the engagement is excellent. It's not rounded or smooth over up top, everything is present - just not piercing.



I made sure I purchased the Vivid's when I bought one. So we'll see how it goes.


----------



## Voxata

I've posted my review Jonathan, https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/burson-play.22702/


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

Voxata said:


> I've posted my review Jonathan, https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/burson-play.22702/


 Looks good I also wrote Burson today and asked them to join the audiophile community over at Massdrop. There's a lot of audiophiles there and you can get a lot of headphones there at a great price. Even some custom models are made by manufactures such as the HD6XX (special edition HD650 that they sell for $199,) AKG, Fostex and many others.


----------



## gandahar

did anyone upgraded to something better than the xonar stx ?

i am looking for one device (amp+dac) which would be better than the xonar stx
any suggestions ?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

gandahar said:


> did anyone upgraded to something better than the xonar stx ?
> 
> i am looking for one device (amp+dac) which would be better than the xonar stx
> any suggestions ?


That would be the Burson Play with V6 op-amps. Mine's supposed to be shipping today.


----------



## alphanumerix1

Hi guys for those interested 

*Review Burson Audio Supreme sound Opamp V6 vivid*

Thanks to Charles at SS-Audio for the trial units of the V6 vivid, I was sent these in return for my honest opinion.

*Equipment used:*

Asus essence stx

Burson V6 vivid x 3

Sennheiser hd600

Audio technica ad900

Preamble:

I'm in no way an audio professional as I am just a regular consumer who enjoys music. You could say I'm enthusiast but If you're after graphs and scientific findings this review will not be for you. I enjoy my music as we all do here and finding ways to improve that music is my and of course many of our goals.

Enters Burson Audio, I have been aware of the company for quite some time now and they have always created interesting and well-regarded products in the audio community. So, when I heard that Burson Audio released their latest op-amp I was very interested to try and see what they are all about.

I consume the majority of content on my desktop e.g. music, games etc. So easy ways to improve my audio experience that don't break the bank was always going to appeal to me as it would many a pc user.

This is where the Burson Audio V6 comes in,

Packaging: The V6 arrives in an unassuming padded envelope but it packed well and arrived without any issues.



 

Installation: Very simple installation with the V6 and the Asus essence stx. Remove the Emi shield of the stx unplug the op amps and insert the V6. Plugging in the V6 you will notice they lean against the capacitors ever so slightly but this has not been an issue. For reference I'm using 3 v6s



 


*Sound*: I have "burned in" the op amps for 150hours to satisfy those who believe in that and if you don't that’s fine too. I've heard that Burson Audio has recommended 100-150hours of burn in but not seen anything official on that so take that with a grain of salt. (Also, I'm coming from the stock op-amps that come with the asus essence stx)

*Bass *– First thing I noticed with the bass was there is more punch/presence with better control and quality. Don't expect a large bump in bass but the improvement in the bass area is noticeable its reaches lower and comes through with more authority to my ears.

*Mids* – Here I was greeted with fuller sounding natural vocals, slightly more forward vocals with better clarity.

*Treble* – There is some extra sparkle in the higher registers nothing harsh or sibilant to my ears. I did notice more details/definition in the treble region but only slight changes.

*Soundstage* – Probably the biggest difference I noticed was in soundstage, coming from the stock op amps there is a clear upgrade. I can hear better width and depth; the stage feels more atmospheric and lively with Improved placement of voices and instruments. I was very pleased in this department and this is where the improvements became more apparent.

Summary: So, when I comes down to the nitty gritty would I recommend the Burson Audio V6. Short answer is yes. If you have a headphone with you pleased with and looking for the extra something from your source the v6 can be great option. Pros: Easy plug and play installation strong after sales support from Burson Audio and improvement in sound quality Cons: Size, price. With the pros outweighing the cons i can recommend the The Burson Audio V6 opamp without hesitation.


----------



## Junglbob

Hi guys, can you help me to choose please, I have now Asus Xonar Essence STX and Sennheiser HD650, I want to make a little upgrade, but don't know what is will better...
1) I can buy Burson V6 Op Amp (x2) because I use only headphone out.
2) I can buy Schiit Magni 3 for STX (and maybe in future buy Modi 2).
I have not bad PSU in my PC > Thermaltake Toughpower 750W (W0117)
http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00000974

In overall I like a sound STX, but need some improve bass, little bit more density, more clarity in sound, maybe wider scene.

Waiting for your answer, Thanks!

p.s. sorry for my english.


----------



## r1sh

Hi guys!

Can anyone help me solving my problem. I'm choosing soundcard for gaming and choosing between Asus STX, Asus Phoebus and Titanium HD. Which will suit more and why?


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

r1sh said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Can anyone help me solving my problem. I'm choosing soundcard for gaming and choosing between Asus STX, Asus Phoebus and Titanium HD. Which will suit more and why?



If between these 3 the STX 2 (not the STX if you can avoid it.) If you want a sound card that literally has astounding quality that will pull out the finest details buy the Burson Play from Burson Audio.


----------



## Rainmaker91

r1sh said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Can anyone help me solving my problem. I'm choosing soundcard for gaming and choosing between Asus STX, Asus Phoebus and Titanium HD. Which will suit more and why?





Jonathan Crouch said:


> If between these 3 the STX 2 (not the STX if you can avoid it.) If you want a sound card that literally has astounding quality that will pull out the finest details buy the Burson Play from Burson Audio.



I have to agree with Jonathan on this. The STX series is likely as good of a card as should get for placing inside your computer. Still, even at this price point I really have to ask why you are not going for a dedicated DAC? The STX is really good, but there are also really good DACs in the same price range as well. Still the STX is likely as expensive as I would ever get for a PCI-e card as anything above that price point is virtually useless compared to a dedicated DAC.
The best option in my eyes is if possible to get a DAC with coax (if your board has digital coax out) as both USB and optical can be quite noisy (thgough there are filters for USB connections).

But, yeah. Out of the ones listed the STX is a clear winner, and if you desperately need more than 2 channels then the STX daughter board would be a good option.


----------



## r1sh

Rainmaker91 said:


> I have to agree with Jonathan on this. The STX series is likely as good of a card as should get for placing inside your computer. Still, even at this price point I really have to ask why you are not going for a dedicated DAC? The STX is really good, but there are also really good DACs in the same price range as well. Still the STX is likely as expensive as I would ever get for a PCI-e card as anything above that price point is virtually useless compared to a dedicated DAC.
> The best option in my eyes is if possible to get a DAC with coax (if your board has digital coax out) as both USB and optical can be quite noisy (thgough there are filters for USB connections).
> 
> But, yeah. Out of the ones listed the STX is a clear winner, and if you desperately need more than 2 channels then the STX daughter board would be a good option.



i'mg going to use only headphones like ad700x \ hd 598 \ dt 770 (32ohm)

Price for stx, tihd and phoebus is about $80-90 used in my country. I'm not shure that dedicated dac costs this low)


----------



## Rainmaker91

r1sh said:


> i'mg going to use only headphones like ad700x \ hd 598 \ dt 770 (32ohm)
> 
> Price for stx, tihd and phoebus is about $80-90 used in my country. I'm not shure that dedicated dac costs this low)



I see, I didn't know that you were getting it used. Still, you should look around for it as well since you are already looking for another audio card. The plus side is that a used dedicated DAC would be far less likely to have been damaged by stuff like static electricity and so on, the second people other than yourself is messing around with bare boards they could be doing who knows what and you wouldn't know it. It's one of the reasons I'm always sceptical at buying used computer hardware to start with, but audio equipment is usually better handled as it is more often than not just designed to be able to be handled by whomever (as long as the casing isn't opened).

Anyway, some things to know about the STX. The drivers are not updated all that often, and I have experienced instabilities every now and then (it's been a while since that though). Still, the card is great and the audio is a lot better than anything else in the same price range that also uses PCI/PCI-e.

As for the reasons to get the STX over the others, it's a pure audio focused card. There hasn't been any need for "gaming" cards since Vista was launched and effectively blocked hardware audio processing (Which is what Creative was known for), so the Phoebus is just a waste of money. The Titanium HD is just a card that I don't know anything about. It might be good, but I simply don't know. What I do know is that the STX (ver 1.0 in my case) is a terrific card that really still outshines any other internal cards I have tried (I haven't tried stuff much over that price range though). It also performs better in my opinion than the Dragonfly Red, but that is debatable. The plus side is that you can mess around with it and swap out the opamps and so on to your liking, or leave it as is if you don't want to (I still have mine fully stock, but the option is there).


----------



## rvcjew (Apr 3, 2018)

I was contacted by Charles from Burson to compare the V6 Dual Opamp to the 3x V5 Dual's I currently have in my STX since 2016. I have also reviewed the V5i versus these as well: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...ressions-thread.421890/page-367#post_13216339

First I would like to thank Charles for the opportunity to try new things.

So the V5 compared to the Opamp's shipped with the STX I would say first off the sound stage is much wider, the Lows are less boomy and more defined but not at the cost of presence. Sub bass also is more detailed as well. The mids are less recessed and the detail in my opinion is night and day especially with female vocals. The highs became less harsh for me as well. Basically it seems to have made it less warm sounding and more neutral. It was my preferred way to use the RCA out on the STX for speakers. Headphone out gets these improvements as well but for that I normally use a NFB-11.

Now for the V6 they made two types and I was given the Classic's so I can't speak for the Vivid's but the easy way to describe it is to compare it against the V5. I think the mids have been brought forward a little bit but they have more detail now and i'm hearing things on the STX that I can easily also pick out on the NFB-11 that I could not before for reference. The low is perhaps a little less but that one seems more placebo then anything, its pulling at straws there. The highs are more forward as well while not being harsh, I like this change. Overall the V6 Dual seems like a slightly warmer version of the V5 Dual with higher clarity in vocals and instrument separation is better as well.

My conclusion is I will be sticking with the V6 over the V5 for the STX (can't stand the stock ones anymore since the stage is so close). I also have tested it in my Xduoo XD-05 but that will require some case modding (cutting a hole) before I can really test it as a portable solution but I like what I hear so far as it widened the stage and clarity of that amp as well.



Spoiler: Last I will leave you some pictures of them in the STX vs the V5 and V5i




         



Items compared against:
*Sources:* NFB-11 (2016 Ver), Xonar STX, ODAC Rev B, AQ Dragonfly v1.2, Nvidia Audio, XD-05
*Speakers: *Loft 20, Loft 40, r-15m, SX6, SXC, SXS, Sub-1200
*Headphones: *M1060V2, K7XX (1st Drop), M50, TH-X00, IE80, M300, PORTA PRO, KSC75
*Amp: *NFB-11, Objective 2, TX-NR525, XD-05

Thanks again to Charles at Burson for reaching out to users for honest feedback.

Malcolm


----------



## sumpao

I am an gaming guy.
I own this Asus Xonar Essense ST for around 3-5 year.
I heard about Burson Op Amp from Head fi.

Bought  3 pcs of Dual V6 vivid opamp  from there site and take 5 days to arrive at my home

I install the V6 Vivid and Wow it totally upgrade.

First  : Sound stage is quite expand. And it more lively
Second : Dynamic is more musical sound. The stock opamp is ok but dynamic is not that clear. V.6 bring bass to my HD600 and more detail that ever.
Third :  Bass Bass is punchy and have more detail and power.

I use this for  HD600 and it matching very well. I play song. Play games and this combo work very good.
I must say if you looking for an upgrade you should looking for this opamp.

I have also use this sound card use as preamp + Marantz MM7025 to drive my book shelf spearker Elac B5.

I work quite ok. The detail is there. I would say it way above my expectation. But man sound card is not quite goods as dedicated preamp right?


----------



## mikerrr

i had  this card  before  4 years and i  had problems with  the  drivers


----------



## rvcjew

mikerrr said:


> i had  this card  before  4 years and i  had problems with  the  drivers


Do you still have the card and are saying your now having trouble with the drivers or looking for another card?


----------



## mikerrr

i had  this card  but now i am  looking for new..


----------



## PurpleAngel

sumpao said:


> I am an gaming guy.
> I own this Asus Xonar Essense ST for around 3-5 year.
> I heard about Burson Op Amp from Head fi.
> Bought  3 pcs of Dual V6 vivid opamp  from there site and take 5 days to arrive at my home
> ...


The Essence STX card and a pre-amplifier are not really the same.
So not sure why your say the sound card is not as good as a pre-amp?


----------



## sumpao

PurpleAngel said:


> The Essence STX card and a pre-amplifier are not really the same.
> So not sure why your say the sound card is not as good as a pre-amp?



Sound card can act as preamp.
Even nobody do that. But it can act like one.
I use this card as preamp with marantz MM7025 and it can do thier job.
result is ok but dedicate preamp is better


----------



## Stefan1971HH

Hello everyone,
I've been using the Essence STX on this mainboard
https://www.gigabyte.com/de/Motherboard/GA-890GPA-UD3H-rev-21#ov
and with this speaker system
https://www.edifier.com/int/en/speakers/s530d-2.1-subwoofer
for several years now, mainly for music (CDs and audio files in 
lossless compression). The sound has been brilliant, but in the
last few months in began to lack dynamics. It sounds unstable
(to my ears there are sometimes even slight erroneous changes
of the volume) and weak. I had always used the analog output,
but now tried the digital one and experienced the same problem.

What could be the reason? I've recently experienced  some other things
such as temporarily disappearing hard disks, that may point to a problem
with the psu (which is an older 500 W from Antec).
Can this also cause decreasing sound quality?  Or could a bad psu only
cause the card not to work at all?
Thanks


----------



## sumpao

Stefan1971HH said:


> Hello everyone,
> I've been using the Essence STX on this mainboard
> https://www.gigabyte.com/de/Motherboard/GA-890GPA-UD3H-rev-21#ov
> and with this speaker system
> ...


Did you try digital output from your main board to the speaker

Or from other source to your speaker
If there is a problem may be it come from speaker


----------



## rvcjew

I would definitely check the digital out of the pc mobo to the speakers as a volume fluctuation sounds more like the amp in the sub powering the speakers. Also unless the drives are not spinning up do to loss of power the disappearing disks is normally sata controllers going out or bad disks. Check your disks with Crystal Disk Info https://crystalmark.info/en/download/#CrystalDiskInfo

Malcolm


----------



## Junglbob

Hey guys, sorry for stupid question, but if I connect external amplifier for STX, do I need change all 3 x opamp? or just only 1?
Thanks.


----------



## fredeb

*From the first page of this thread :

Q: What's the deal with interchangeable opamps?*
A: The card has 3 swappable 8-pin dual opamps. The two matched I/V opamps impact the headphone out alone, while the 3rd "buffer" opamp impacts the RCA out. If you are only using the headphone out you only have to worry about the 2 I/V opamps. They can be removed and replaced using your fingers, a small flathead screwdriver, needle nose pliers, etc.


----------



## fredeb

Stefan1971HH said:


> Hello everyone,
> I've been using the Essence STX on this mainboard
> https://www.gigabyte.com/de/Motherboard/GA-890GPA-UD3H-rev-21#ov
> and with this speaker system
> ...



Are you overclocking ? This could cause problems . 

Try updating the motherboard Bios ( even if you over-write with same version ) , bios could be corrupt .

Other than checking disks with Crystal disk , you could also run low level memory diagnostics , Ultimate Boot CD may have some diagnostic applications .

Otherwise it could just be the entire mobo going - take the card and check on new computer .


----------



## Stefan1971HH (Nov 17, 2018)

Hello, thanks for the hints and sorry for getting back to you that late.
I was never overclocking. I have tried another Mobo (Asus Prime X370 Pro)
with another HQ card (Creative Soundblaster ZxR) and another psu but the
problem persists. I realised too late that the Xonar STX and STX II are already
known to be incompatible with my new board's chipset.
That probably points to the speakerset as the culprit.


----------



## bcschmerker4

Stefan1971HH said:


> Hello, thanks for the hints and sorry for getting back to you that late.
> I was never overclocking. I have tried another Mobo (Asus Prime X370 Pro)
> with another HQ card (Creative Soundblaster ZxR) and another psu but the
> problem persists. I realised too late that the Xonar STX and STX II are already
> ...


*Ouch!  When did intel® go to hardware that blows C-Media® DSP's?*  I've two systems with Advanced Micro Devices® 700-series chipsets, and the only problems I had installing and removing the XONAR® are OS-related.  The Winver whereunder I last ran my Essence STX (ASUS® AV-100, derived from the CMI-8788) was 6.1.7601; it's happier than a hog in slop in ubuntu® 16.04.5-LTS, as the Advanced LinUX Sound Architecture Project's snd-virtuoso driver is able to run circles around any of the C-Media® CMI-8788 Drivers for Microsoft® Windows® 6-up.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Junglbob said:


> Hey guys, sorry for stupid question, but if I connect external amplifier for STX, do I need change all 3 x opamp? or just only 1?
> Thanks.


With the Essence STX, the two V/I slots op-amps are used for the headphone output.
The STX's line-output (RCA) use both the two (dual channel) I/V op-amps and the single (dual channel) buffer op-amp.
So assuming you would connect the external amplifier to the RCA jacks, all three op-amps are in use.
How much are you willing to budget for an op-amp upgrade?
For around $60, you can easily get three nice op-amps (I went with AD797BR).


----------



## Ddhead

Hi, i just recently got my Essence STX, sorry i'm a bit late..
Currently using this Essence STX with my Audio Technica M40x
Ath M40x is 35 ohms
Essence STX output impedance is 10 ohms
Impedance matching rules says at least 8 times the ohm of source
So should be no less than 80 ohm to get best sound quality?

Then does this means a M40x is not suitable to be used with this Essence STX for monitoring or music production due to impedance mismatch that may ruin the low frequency due to reflections or damping factor cause by impedance mismatch?

I did test it plugging in directly to the STX, the M40x low frequency sound bloated everywhere or a lot low end uncontrolled bass, 
I then plug a Fiio A3 amp input from the STX headphone out and only then Fiio output to my M40x since the Fiio has a <0.2 ohms output impedance..
It does makes a very big difference in the lower end frequency,
So does this means i can't use the M40x with the STX well without external low output impedance amp?
Reallly love the sound of M40x though, hope to get the best sound out directly from the STX  (T_T)


----------



## Ddhead

Using a Fiio A3 at the Essence STX headphone out is it a downgrade due to Fiio A3 SNR >108dB and STX is >117dB? Or can we even hear the difference?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Ddhead said:


> Hi, i just recently got my Essence STX, sorry I'm a bit late..
> Currently using this Essence STX with my Audio Technica M40xAth M40x is 35 ohms Essence STX output impedance is 10 ohms
> Impedance matching rules says at least 8 times the ohm of source So should be no less than 80 ohm to get best sound quality?
> Then does this means a M40x is not suitable to be used with this Essence STX for monitoring or music production due to impedance mismatch that may ruin the low frequency due to reflections or damping factor cause by impedance mismatch?
> ...



Yea, it looks like for good audio, from the ATH-M40X. your going to need to use an external headphone amplifier (A3).

Try connecting the FiiO A3 to the line-output (RCA) jacks on the STX.
If might feed a better signal to the A3.


----------



## Ddhead

PurpleAngel said:


> Yea, it looks like for good audio, from the ATH-M40X. your going to need to use an external headphone amplifier (A3).
> 
> Try connecting the FiiO A3 to the line-output (RCA) jacks on the STX.
> If might feed a better signal to the A3.



Yup I tried that. Sound a lot better especially the low end. I feed the Fiio A3 using Fiio L16 cable from STX headphone out.. Think is better? Due to headphone out only have output impedance of 10 ohm as compared to RCA out which have 100 ohms..


----------



## PurpleAngel

Ddhead said:


> Yup I tried that. Sound a lot better especially the low end. I feed the Fiio A3 using Fiio L16 cable from STX headphone out.. Think is better? Due to headphone out only have output impedance of 10 ohm as compared to RCA out which have 100 ohms..


The audio signal coming from headphone jack is designed for driving headphones.
Where as the signal coming from the line-output (RCA) jack is designed to feed a signal to a line-input jack.
Both signal are somewhat alike, but not exactly the same.
The Essence STX can not send it's Dolby Headphone out the line-output, so it basically stereo (2.0) audio, which is fine for music audio or video that uses stereo audio.


----------



## Reyer (Jan 26, 2019)

Hello.
I'm looking for an amp recommendations that I would use with my STX I. Are there any worthy and affordable mentions that would improve my overall audio quality? Is getting an amp to use it with Xonar RCA even worth it? Maybe I should not spend any more money on Xonar and just get some well received AMP/DAC combo?
I'm not experienced enough to evaluate how good or bad is the one implemented in xonar but I've already heard that even if it is supposed to power up 600ohm headphones it will never squeeze as much of juice from them as it should to. It was said that this amp does nothing good to audio and is only mediocre at best; that we should use RCA instead.

Since I've seen *numerous* comparisons and conclusions that swapping xonar for any O2+ODAC/Magni+Modi combo brings literally 0 improvement in audio quality I suppose that I should treat them as equivalents and search for something better and probably more expensive.
Also this makes me wonder... if Xonar amp is bad enough for people to discourage others from getting xonar why do they recommend Magni/O2 instead? If Xonar amp is bad and Magni sounds the same doesn't that mean that Magni is as bad as xonar?

Mind that I would prefer to keep the cost as low as possible - if getting an amp that already cost $300 brings no improvement but getting $400/$500 DAC/AMP combo makes big difference I would simply go for the latter. However if the price to quality ratio goes wild I'll stay with my xonar until something better or cheaper will show on the horizon.

Thanks in advance \o


----------



## Jonathan Crouch (Jan 26, 2019)

Reyer said:


> Hello.
> I'm looking for an amp recommendations that I would use with my STX I. Are there any worthy and affordable mentions that would improve my overall audio quality? Is getting an amp to use it with Xonar RCA even worth it? Maybe I should not spend any more money on Xonar and just get some well received AMP/DAC combo?
> I'm not experienced enough to evaluate how good or bad is the one implemented in xonar but I've already heard that even if it is supposed to power up 600ohm headphones it will never squeeze as much of juice from them as it should to. It was said that this amp does nothing good to audio and is only mediocre at best; that we should use RCA instead.
> 
> ...



Alright if you need a all around knock it out of the park configuration look no further than the Burson V6 classic and Vivid. The Vivids spatial sound and clarity will blow you away. The Classic deviate from the Vivid they are more warm. I’ve been told that 2 Vivids with one Classic is best for the STX. I’ve since sold my STX and just upgraded to a Burson Play W/ a Vivid Classic combo. Kills the STX in every range.

Edit if you go this route I recommend using Zip ties to hold the amps to the card. As they have a tendency to fit loosely in the slot. It is worth the effort though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Reyer said:


> Hello.
> I'm looking for an amp recommendations that I would use with my STX I. Are there any worthy and affordable mentions that would improve my overall audio quality? Is getting an amp to use it with Xonar RCA even worth it? Maybe I should not spend any more money on Xonar and just get some well received AMP/DAC combo? I'm not experienced enough to evaluate how good or bad is the one implemented in Xonar but I've already heard that even if it is supposed to power up 600-Ohm headphones
> it will never squeeze as much of juice from them as it should to. It was said that this amp does nothing good to audio and is only mediocre at best; that we should use RCA instead.
> Since I've seen *numerous* comparisons and conclusions that swapping Xonar for any O2+ODAC/Magni+Modi combo brings literally 0 improvement in audio quality I suppose that I should treat them as equivalents and search for something better and probably more expensive.
> ...


It might help to know what headphones you now have or planning on buying in the future?
The STX also comes with some very nice DAC chips 
I think the Asus Xonar Essence STX comes with a decent headphone amplifier (fine for headphones in the 40-Ohm to 300-Ohm range), but the Schiit Magni or JDS Atom is more desirable.
Such as the Magni/Atom coming with a very low (>1-Ohm) output impedance, which is better (better detail in audio) for driving headphones in the 8-Ohm to 60-Ohm range, over the STX's headphone jack having a 10-Ohm output impedance.
I would also assume(?) the Magni/Atom offer more over all power, then the STX's head amp.
Hooking a head amp to the STX's RCA (line-output) takes advantage of all three of the STX's op-amps (operational amplifiers)
The STX's head amp only uses two of STX's the op-amps.
For $60 ($20 each), you could easy get 3 better op-amps.
The only down side to connecting an external head amp to the RCA jacks is it bypasses the STX's Dolby Headphone (surround sound) feature.
I swapped out my STX (with AD797BR op-amps) for a $350 Audio-GD external DAC/amp, really only minor improvement, but to me it was worth it.


----------



## Reyer (Jan 27, 2019)

Wow.
Thank you for your quick answers.
As of now I have swapped the stock opamps for 2x LME49990 and OPA1612 on buffer. I'm a total newbie if it comes to electronics so I might have committed some faux pas there (are these ok?)... I've personally chosen them after a dozen hours or more of research and believe that they vastly improved audio clarity and the sound stage. STX out of the box felt a little lifeless and as if the audio was tightly covered by some cloth... and quite surprisingly these new opamps changed a lot.
My total goal was to get the most neutral and crystal audio with best sound stage as possible (like probably everyone that have not tasted the lamp amps yet or isn't mortally bored of neutral sounding).
I've got an AKG K550 (MKIII, 32ohm) which sounds really good but a little bit disappointing as I have expected them to give me a bigger WOW effect - later I've discovered that they sound a little bit better on RCA output (might be a placebo tho) and that they're not suited to the headphone output because of the rule of 1/8 regarding the output and headphones impedance relation. There is a new pair of AKG K7xx flying to me right now that I should receive in about of week and I plan to get DT990 (PRO 250ohm or Edition 600ohm) later, when I already decide if my xonar is capable of driving them properly or if I actually need some desktop amp to do it.

JDS Atom looks really promising, despite of its shipping+tax price of $171.40. I'll check it out.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Reyer said:


> Wow.
> Thank you for your quick answers.
> As of now I have swapped the stock op-amps for 2X LME49990 and OPA1612 on buffer. I'm a total newbie if it comes to electronics so I might have committed some faux pas there (are these ok?)... I've personally chosen them after a dozen hours or more of research and believe that they vastly improved audio clarity and the sound stage. STX out of the box felt a little lifeless and as if the audio was tightly covered by some cloth... and quite surprisingly these new op-amps changed a lot.
> My total goal was to get the most neutral and crystal audio with best sound stage as possible (like probably everyone that have not tasted the lamp amps yet or isn't mortally bored of neutral sounding).
> ...


The LME 49990 are op-amps I would have considered buying for my STX
The AKG K550 is a little bit boring in the sound, but otherwise I like them myself (but have not used them in years).
Driving the 32-Ohm K550 off the STX's RCA jacks I would assume is giving the K550 a bloated (louder, less detailed) bass, so you might just be liking the louder bass.
I would say to skip on the DT990, I own both the 250-Ohm and 600-Ohm versions, there are better headphones.
Like the Soundmagic HP200, which I would consider an improved DT990.
The STX's headphone amplifier will have no problem driving the 62-Ohm Massdrop/AKG K7XX headphones.
Where do you live that makes the Atom cost so much?


----------



## Reyer (Jan 27, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> The LME 49990 are op-amps I would have considered buying for my STX
> The AKG K550 is a little bit boring in the sound, but otherwise I like them myself (but have not used them in years).
> Driving the 32-Ohm K550 off the STX's RCA jacks I would assume is giving the K550 a bloated (louder, less detailed) bass, so you might just be liking the louder bass.
> I would say to skip on the DT990, I own both the 250-Ohm and 600-Ohm versions, there are better headphones.
> ...


As I have seen on the JDS website whole world, beside the US, have shipping cost of $35 (which also means that even Mexico pays the same while being on the same continent) and because of that I live in the EU, from the price of $99+$35 I have yet to pay 21% VAT (Poland) and then guaranteed additional custom fees for anything imported from outside of EU.
I've read that JDS is planning to send their Atoms to the EU shops in early 2019 but the exact price and date was not mentioned anywhere.

--EDIT--
As for the AKG K550 and RCA, I think I have heard more space/air between the instruments, slightly better positioning and less noise/blur on mids and highs. To be honest I have not noticed anything regarding the bass but I wasn't actively "probing" it while listening to my samples.
I'm not sure if that's the case tho because the volume between the outputs differ a bit and the time to swap them is long enough to lose track of all of these subtle details.

Right now I've ordered some parts to make my own A/B switch for 4 pairs of headphones and 2 outputs with the output selector switch that will allow me to swap one source with another with a single flip of 6P3T switch. All parts should be much less than 1 ohm so if I don't screw something up I should be able to compare sources and headphones with no quality lost just with a single flip of a switch (and XonarSwitch profiles in windows to match the gain and volume; manually at first but later with the use of Arduino board to make things automatic).

Thank you for your suggestion about HP200. I've been considering DT990 as an offset to my neutral and "boring" AKG K550. Wanted something fun, that I would just switch on to rest a bit from analytical sounding. To use them with music where its "soul" is worth more than a deep "admiration of a subtle timbre of a cello".


----------



## PurpleAngel

Reyer said:


> As I have seen on the JDS website whole world, beside the US, have shipping cost of $35 (which also means that even Mexico pays the same while being on the same continent) and because of that I live in the EU, from the price of $99+$35 I have yet to pay 21% VAT (Poland) and then guaranteed additional custom fees for anything imported from outside of EU.
> I've read that JDS is planning to send their Atoms to the EU shops in early 2019 but the exact price and date was not mentioned anywhere.
> As for the AKG K550 and RCA, I think I have heard more space/air between the instruments, slightly better positioning and less noise/blur on mids and highs. To be honest I have not noticed anything regarding the bass but I wasn't actively "probing" it while listening to my samples.
> I'm not sure if that's the case tho because the volume between the outputs differ a bit and the time to swap them is long enough to lose track of all of these subtle details.
> Thank you for your suggestion about HP200. I've been considering DT990 as an offset to my neutral and "boring" AKG K550. Wanted something fun, that I would just switch on to rest a bit from analytical sounding. To use them with music where its "soul" is worth more than a deep "admiration of a subtle timbre of a cello"


Check out the website AVforum, it's located in the United Kingdom (Europe) so people on that forum might be able to point you to places in Europe that sell headphone amplifiers.
https://www.avforums.com/
My current thought is maybe you really do not need to rush at buying an external headphone amplifier, it might not be worth it for all the taxes and shipping charges.
And may not make that noticeable of an improvement, with the headphones your using (or close to buying).


----------



## Reyer (Feb 4, 2019)

Newbie questions part 2:
I've read that, as PurpleAngel mentioned, RCA output is measured at about 99ohm and since Headphone amp output impedance is 10ohm, my AKG K550 (32ohm) isn't performing as good as it should.
Is it possible to achieve their real potential by adding an amp (let's assume JDS Atom) to the RCA output and then connecting K550 to it, or I'll never be able to get them to work with xonar?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Reyer said:


> Newbie questions part 2:
> I've read that, as PurpleAngel mentioned, RCA output is measured at about 99ohm and since Headphone amp output impedance is 10ohm, my AKG K550 (32ohm) isn't performing as good as it should.
> Is it possible to achieve their real potential by adding an amp (let's assume JDS Atom) to the RCA output and then connecting K550 to it, or I'll never be able to get them to work with Xonar?


I would say getting a headphone amplifier with a very low (>1-Ohm) output impedance (like the Atom), for driving low Ohm headphones is a good idea.
I use have an O2 (Objective 2) head amp connected to the RCA jacks on my STX.
The STX's Dolby Headphone will not work with the line-output (RCA), which never was a big deal to me.


----------



## bcschmerker4 (Feb 5, 2019)

@PurpleAngel @Reyer *I consider the National Semiconductor®/Texas Instruments® LME49990NA a fallback* in case I'm unable to land a pair of MUSES® 01 monolithic or Burson® V5i hybrid dual amplifiers; the V5i's are the largest I-V candidates I can shoehorn under the RFI shield on my XONAR® STX™.  (I had to rule out the full-size Burson® V5 and V6 discretes, as my hybrid LinUX box's GIGABYTE® GA-MA78GM-S2HP has the video-card slot, to which I'm transferring the ASUS® EAH6850DC/2DIS/1GD5 from the CM1630 when I land a Win 10-supported RX-series card, immediately adjacent the XONAR - a difficult-to-circumvent motherboard design issue which has RFI written all over it.)  I'm preparing to audition, of all currently-available computer headsets, the HEIL SOUND™ ProSet™ MediaPro™, a development of Bob Heil's radio-headset experience with tuned closed-back 200Ω ear speakers, an electret mini-boom microphone, and a phase switch on the right earcup; the STX' internal TI head-amp should have no problem driving the ProSet.


----------



## Reyer (Feb 8, 2019)

Little update for those who are wondering which op-amps should they put into their STX.

Until recently I've been using LME49990 which I absolutely love but I have decided to give a try to the MUSES 8820... and honestly I cannot describe how disappointed I am right now.
I'm using only the Headphone output which means that my OPA1612 on buffer shouldn't affect the overall sound coming from the card. Headphones I'm using are AKG K550 and DT990 PRO (I've had AKG K7xx ordered but they've arrived DOA and there was no replacement for them...).
BEWARE: I'm not an audio expert and my definitions may be vague and unprofessional. *This comparison is only between the op-amps and it doesn't take into the account the quality of the STX itself.*

*LME49990* vs *MUSES 8820* - there are no direct comparison of these two on the internet. Literally none, and this is why I want to write something about them myself:

*Stock op-amps* - while they offered an improvement in terms of quality over the integrated MOBO sound card and were great for a while I've always felt that the music I'm listening to is a little bit sluggish and flat, as if my head was covered around with some cloth. Stage wasn't really impressing and separation was like it didn't exist at all. Although STX was my first "real" piece of audio hardware I've felt that its nowhere close to what it could have sound like. Few months later, after one whole month of research I've decided that I'll either get MUSES8820 or LME49990. I was hoping to maintain my card as neutral as possible while improving the stage as much as it was possible and opinions about LME49990 were describing exactly what I wanted.

*LME49990* - I was welcomed by an unexpected amount of space and audio clarity. At last I could perfectly separate all sounds in the music and the sound stage stopped feeling claustrophobic and become "limitless".
Lows- A little bit on the lean side, without much of the sub-bass however they were perfectly controlled and still better than the Stock op-amps. They were not flowing into the mids and were quick and crisp. If needed they could go very low and were not overwhelming at all.
Mids - Clear and bright. I cannot tell much about them but they felt like I would expect them to be.
Highs - Went higher than ever before. They were clear and bright with a delicate round-off at the top-highs keeping them away from sybilization.
Overall - Perfectly neutral with a huge sound stage. You could feel the separation between instruments and the dark background behind them. If some instruments went silent, you could feel its disappearance and the empty space they left. Guitars had their actual "acoustics" and believable sounds of strings. Nothing was faked or artificially "improved".

*MUSES 8820* - At first there was an impression of higher musicality in my music - it was less clinical and the sound was a little bit darker and warmer than before. Next thing I've discovered was that the whole audio spectrum was "flattened and moved down a bit". Anything that was considered as Mids in LME49990 now felt here like lower-mids, bass felt like sub-bass and highs were severely lacking. It felt like if the singer was trying to go higher but simply couldn't. Hats and trumpets were slower and insignificant, like if they were just a background... no matter if that was their own solo.
Lows - Quite a lot of sub-bass. It felt like it was overflowing into the all of the audio spectrum. Coloring it with warm colors and hiding individual instruments from the in-depth analyze. Bass was very boomy but not to the point of being annoying. It was still well controlled but you could tell that it started lagging behind a bit. Bass was fun and I liked the texture it was creating for each kind of instrument.
Mids - Not only noticeably quieter but also heavily shaded by the bass. It felt that they were just at 3/4 of their real volume. They've moved much closer to the listener that you could almost smell singers breath from this position.You could barely hear separation between different instruments and their lack of clarity made you feel like you're listening to some soup. All mids felt like someone blended them together.
Highs - Flat and recessed. They were much lower than when they were on LME49990. If I were to compare them to colors then on LME49990 they would be sparky-yellow/gold or white and in MUSES they would be a dark, brownish-orange.
Overall - Boomy and certainly not boring bass but with ruined and compressed highs and mids. No longer as bright, airy and spacious as LME, with much warmer and lazy sound. Because of the recessed mids and highs, lows were over-represented making the sound overly bloated with bass.

In the end I can compare these both op-amps to the headphones I own. LME49990 would be my AKG K550, neutral with insanely big and accurate stage. MUSES 8820 would be my DT990 with their emphasis on bass but without their highs, adding a little bit of excitement to the songs I've listened to.
Funniest thing was that the MUSES made my "boring" AKG sound just as bassy or even more as the DT990.

In about few months I'll probably revisit MUSES and try them once again but this time with a little help of my friend to see if we all agree about the sound they contributes to.


----------



## raoultrifan (Apr 8, 2019)

Based on http://nihtila.com/2017/01/08/pcm1794a-output-stage-opamp-measurements-lm4562-ne5532-and-opa2134/ I would use 5532 chips in I/V or the original JRC2114D; as per LPF, LM4562 is just fine.

Without measurements, just based on listening tests, I can't recommend you any upgrades, sorry. Reasons would be:
- lack to identify if oscillations or post-ringing occurs
- THD could increase if incompatible opmaps are used

It's all in the PCB layout and power supply rails quality, so sometimes very good and expensive opamps might work worse in some situations.

L.E.: Wrong thread, although it might apply to STX as well, not sure yet. Thanks for understanding.


----------



## Varmintbaby (Apr 9, 2019)

I just got two Burson V5 op amps to put in the I/V slot on my STX II. The sound is better, especially on music. If it makes sense, it sounds like it takes less "effort" for the music to play. It's very smooth and buttery sounding. I really like it a lot. If I ever decide to start using speakers, I''ll get a 3rd one to put in the Buffer slot and rock with that. I'd like to try the V6 as well, but I worry it won't be that huge of a difference from the V5.

Edit: Upon listening to more music, I'm hearing more parts of songs that I didn't hear before. Michael Jackson's Wanna Be Startin Somethin' has some background stuff going on that I just didn't catch before. It's not my imagination either. I listen to music very discerningly and it's like certain effects and bits are more pronounced since switching to the V5. I need to get a 3rd one as I have some Samson monitors on my desk that are connected to the sound card. I want to see if they sound better and if I hear those same bits I was not catching before. Highly recommend upgrading to the V5 for sure!


----------



## Varmintbaby

Guys check out this. I don't think it's reachable from their main pages. https://www.bursonaudio.com/asus-xonar-essence-stx-upgraded-with-supreme-sound-v5-op-amps/

Pretty good deal for STX users!


----------



## bcschmerker4

@Varmintbaby *After reviewing the STX-modification infosheet from Burson®,* the triple-V5i package _will_ fit heavily-populated tower systems.  Ideally, Burson Audio will offer similar packages for the original ST (PCI 2.2) for systems with "video card" space available at a legacy PCI slot.


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION (May 26, 2019)

Hi there guys. i would really love you advice. let me talk about my setup first.

Right now i play my flac files that are stored in my pc, through an asus xonar ds. signal goes to my console ( Behringer xenyx x2222) and from there to my sansui au 717 intergrated amp. speakers are diy floorstanders and are amazing and really hi end.
Obviously you will laugh at my sound card. It is high time i got it upgraded. i would have done that ages ago, but the real upgrade to my system (the speakers) are less than a month old, so...).

I have set my mind and will buy a xonar essence stx or stx ii. used. from what i read in this forum, stx ii should be better (better clock etc). But what about upgraded stx and upgraded stx ii. which would be better? hence my post

firstly let me say that is almost no way that i will use the headphone out of the card. my headphones are stuck in the console where i control all my other equipment. drums laptop etc etc. and i dont care about listening to music through phones.
My pc will just be hooked through the rca outpout of the card, to my console.

Secondly and most importantly, what id like to achieve with the card id choose and its mods (mainly upgrading the op amps), is to achieve a neutral signal going out of the sound card. i dont want any freq band exagerated Like a u or v smile, no roll off etc. i want a neutral signature.  soundcard should feed my console (which then connects to the amp) without coloring the sound. i want to hear to music and not my equipments. (as much as it possibly can happen because nothoing is 100% neutral).

i said these things because id like to ask you guys what op amps id be better of using. after reading many threads and pages here, i think i do not want to go with the bursons. high price and i read some problems especially with the 5i. also i am not convinced that they are neutral. to the contrary. that is not a bad thing for many people. id like to steer to a different direction.

apart for a suggestion of which of the 2 sound cards i should choose and which op amps i should get, id also like to ask this.
should i change all 3 of them? or just the buffer one since i wont use headphone out? in this forum i run into 2 posts one claiming i should change just the buffer op amp, and the other i should change all three, since rca use all 3 of them.
Also i read the byffer op amp could be different to the other 2.

any other easy upgrade? clock needs soldering etc which i cant to so i am steering out of this. unless it is THAT crucial so pehaps id send it to an electrician to upgrade it. any advice on what i am getting for a clock instead?
what about  I/V conversion op amps. is it easy to change these? should i do it?

in conclusion what would be the most value for money upgrade? changing just the 3 op amps (or less since i only care about rca) and be done with it? and which should these be for a neutral sound signature? and should i go for stc or stx ii? would the "better" clock in stx ii be worth the around 50 euros difference in price in ebay? and finally, is there any issue with uni drivers? should i prefer stx over stxii (or vice versa) due to driver support?
thank you


----------



## Varmintbaby

BURNIN AMBITION said:


> Hi there guys. i would really love you advice. let me talk about my setup first.
> 
> Right now i play my flac files that are stored in my pc, through an asus xonar ds. signal goes to my console ( Behringer xenyx x2222) and from there to my sansui au 717 intergrated amp. speakers are diy floorstanders and are amazing and really hi end.
> Obviously you will laugh at my sound card. It is high time i got it upgraded. i would have done that ages ago, but the real upgrade to my system (the speakers) are less than a month old, so...).
> ...



I would suggest getting the STX II and upgrading the op amps. I know you said you don't think you want Bursons, but they really are the best op amps. They don't "color' the sound really. You get the sound the way the audio engineer mastering the track wanted you to. As long as you don't use the EQ that comes with the driver software, it will be reference high quality sound. I have 3 V5s but you could also try the V6 classics or V6 Vivids. I can only attest to the greatness of the V5s though. You will need to replace all 3. Headphones is just the 2 I/V and the RCA out is all 3. You won't regret getting this sound card. I have some $90 monitors sitting on my desk and paired with the V5 op amps they sound amazing. My wife even commented on how good the sound was and she's not all into gadgets and electronics like me. I use my HD6xx headphones most of the time to avoid disturbing my wife and neighbors, but when I can crank up my speakers they are awesome also. I can't recommend the STX II with Burson amps enough. It has sound quality to setups 3-4x it's price. Good luck my friend!


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

thank you very much my friend!!!!! this is greatly useful info!!!


----------



## ManuLM

hey BURNIN AMBITION, 
sorry but I can't help to think you just ran into a Burson salesman... don't be angry with me Varmintbaby, but your vocabulary is all emotional plus the typical pitch that sounds so deja vu (the wife thing, the 3-4x it's price, sorry but I have been reading this a million times, feels like paid publishing), and nothing about the essence of making a great audio card (not a word on high output voltage, driving the OA with better / cleaner source voltage ... you name it, this forum has a million experts that are around for a long time). 
STX II no doubt will sound good with Bursons, but not like a million times better than stock STX II without any serious tweaking not necessarily involving Bursons.
I'm being a bit straight here, but I think someone has to spread a doubt on such posts... amd I am tired of such posts


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

thank you ManuLM for pointing this out. it is never bad to have 2 different opinions about the same thing. in audio, there is never black or white. so all opinions are dully noted. have i made my mind yet on the path i choose? obviously not. but your post is helpful. cheers


----------



## Varmintbaby (May 28, 2019)

ManuLM said:


> hey BURNIN AMBITION,
> sorry but I can't help to think you just ran into a Burson salesman... don't be angry with me Varmintbaby, but your vocabulary is all emotional plus the typical pitch that sounds so deja vu (the wife thing, the 3-4x it's price, sorry but I have been reading this a million times, feels like paid publishing), and nothing about the essence of making a great audio card (not a word on high output voltage, driving the OA with better / cleaner source voltage ... you name it, this forum has a million experts that are around for a long time).
> STX II no doubt will sound good with Bursons, but not like a million times better than stock STX II without any serious tweaking not necessarily involving Bursons.
> I'm being a bit straight here, but I think someone has to spread a doubt on such posts... amd I am tired of such posts



Actually I'm not a Burson salesman, I work for a medical company as IT support.


----------



## Varmintbaby

BURNIN AMBITION said:


> thank you ManuLM for pointing this out. it is never bad to have 2 different opinions about the same thing. in audio, there is never black or white. so all opinions are dully noted. have i made my mind yet on the path i choose? obviously not. but your post is helpful. cheers



That was the response of a miserable


BURNIN AMBITION said:


> thank you ManuLM for pointing this out. it is never bad to have 2 different opinions about the same thing. in audio, there is never black or white. so all opinions are dully noted. have i made my mind yet on the path i choose? obviously not. but your post is helpful. cheers



I wouldn't pay much attention to that guy, for someone whose so tired of reading other peoples opinions, he doesn't have the intellect to stop going to message boards or turn off his computer.


----------



## bcschmerker4 (May 27, 2019)

BURNIN AMBITION said:


> Hi there guys. i would really love you advice. let me talk about my setup first.
> 
> Right now i play my flac files that are stored in my pc, through an asus xonar ds. signal goes to my console ( Behringer xenyx x2222) and from there to my sansui au 717 intergrated amp. speakers are diy floorstanders and are amazing and really hi end.
> Obviously you will laugh at my sound card. It is high time i got it upgraded. i would have done that ages ago, but the real upgrade to my system (the speakers) are less than a month old, so...).
> ...


@BURNIN AMBITION *XONAR® DS™?  Sounds as though ye need the original XONAR® Essence™ ST™,* which uses the same legacy PCI 2.2 slot interface as your existing DS.  The STX II™ is designed to bring the expandability of the original ST to current systems with available PCIe x1 slots; it will not retrofit to legacy PCI.


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

bcschmerker4 said:


> @BURNIN AMBITION *XONAR® DS™?  Sounds as though ye need the original XONAR® Essence™ ST™,* which uses the same legacy PCI 2.2 slot interface as your existing DS.  The STX II™ is designed to bring the expandability of the original ST to current systems with available PCIe x1 slots; it will not retrofit to legacy PCI.


i do have pcie available in my pv, so no problems here. thank you


----------



## ManuLM

BURNIN AMBITION said:


> thank you ManuLM for pointing this out. it is never bad to have 2 different opinions about the same thing. in audio, there is never black or white. so all opinions are dully noted. have i made my mind yet on the path i choose? obviously not. but your post is helpful. cheers



No worries, I see message got accross... There are plenty of suggestions on this very thread for STX tweaking.



Varmintbaby said:


> Actually I'm not a Burson salesman, I work for a medical company as IT support.



I think everyone will be able to appreciate your ability to take a step back and realize how you consider other opinions... and manage to announce out of 3 months on HeadFi the "best" setup for the Asus sound card that has been discussed for years 
Keep your enthusiam, get more humble man (and polite). This is a gentlemen discussion forum. Keep it this way or go somewhere else ...


----------



## PurpleAngel

BURNIN AMBITION said:


> Hi there guys. i would really love you advice. let me talk about my setup first.
> Right now i play my flac files that are stored in my pc, through an asus xonar ds. signal goes to my console ( Behringer xenyx x2222) and from there to my sansui au 717 integrated amp. speakers are diy floorstanders and are amazing and really hi end.
> Obviously you will laugh at my sound card. It is high time i got it upgraded. i would have done that ages ago, but the real upgrade to my system (the speakers) are less than a month old, so...).
> I have set my mind and will buy a xonar essence stx or stx ii. used. from what i read in this forum, stx ii should be better (better clock etc). But what about upgraded stx and upgraded stx ii. which would be better? hence my post
> in conclusion what would be the most value for money upgrade? changing just the 3 op amps (or less since i only care about rca) and be done with it? and which should these be for a neutral sound signature? and should i go for stc or stx ii? would the "better" clock in stx ii be worth the around 50 euros difference in price in ebay? and finally, is there any issue with uni drivers? should i prefer stx over stxii (or vice versa) due to driver support? thank you


Unless you need the features of a sound card, it might be better to replace the Xonar DS with an external DAC (USB or optical).
Like the Topping D50 DAC?


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

PurpleAngel said:


> Unless you need the features of a sound card, it might be better to replace the Xonar DS with an external DAC (USB or optical).
> Like the Topping D50 DAC?


hmmmm not a bad suggestion. well, i thought of an internal card so that everything would fit in my pc box and would be neat. but if i connect pc with external dac perhaps that is a nice option indeed. wouldnt know where to start or what characteristics the external dac should have. will check the topping for starters. thank you my friend for suggesting something different. it is a viable option....


----------



## jBEVIA (Jun 11, 2019)

Hi, ASUS  GTX II, I do not use headphones, I use rca or optical output for speakers. To improve loudspeaker sound is it necessary to change the three op amps? or can you change only one, because I understand that the two twins are for headphones? what kind of burson you advise me for a few treble a little brighter V5 or V6 Thank you.


----------



## fredeb (Jun 11, 2019)

According to the Asus opamp swapping guide : " Modifying OP A,B and C will change the tonal quality of RCA outputs, while modifying OP A and B changes the tonal quality of 1/4” Headphone output. "

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...ar_Essence_STX_OPamp_swapping_instruction.zip


----------



## raoultrifan

It's all about the added harmonics (a bit more THD), phase delay and frequency roll-off. Great devices that are able to change the sound could be found here: https://www.thomann.de/gb/spl_psychoacoustic_effects.html.

I strongly recommend doing RMAA or ARTA tests prior and after opamp change, for a better understanding of what is changing in the output sound. Here a "visible" and audible difference when changing NE5532 with MUSES01 (originals!): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/asu...-dac-cebit-2011.542563/page-236#post-14799061. As you can see, a 18dB higher 2nd harmonic will make the sound to be more...melodious, while few dB difference in harmonics between the two channels will increase the soundstage.

My personal thoughts: with NE5532 (or perhaps with the better OPA1612) the sound will be more similar with what the recording studio intended to be, while adding euphonic opamps (MUSES01/02/03, Sparkos, Burson SS etc.) will make the sound to be more...melodious/warm/musical. It's all about a personal choice after all.


----------



## Moses4188

raoultrifan said:


> It's all about the added harmonics (a bit more THD), phase delay and frequency roll-off. Great devices that are able to change the sound could be found here: https://www.thomann.de/gb/spl_psychoacoustic_effects.html.
> 
> I strongly recommend doing RMAA or ARTA tests prior and after opamp change, for a better understanding of what is changing in the output sound. Here a "visible" and audible difference when changing NE5532 with MUSES01 (originals!): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/asu...-dac-cebit-2011.542563/page-236#post-14799061. As you can see, a 18dB higher 2nd harmonic will make the sound to be more...melodious, while few dB difference in harmonics between the two channels will increase the soundstage.
> 
> My personal thoughts: with NE5532 (or perhaps with the better OPA1612) the sound will be more similar with what the recording studio intended to be, while adding euphonic opamps (MUSES01/02/03, Sparkos, Burson SS etc.) will make the sound to be more...melodious/warm/musical. It's all about a personal choice after all.



So I would like to ask You what is the best choice for the as much as possible neutral sound? I was thinking about the Burson V5i Duals but it looks like they're just more an eyecatcher than actually accurate. What is the top of the tops possible?


----------



## raoultrifan

@Moses4188, I would try OPA1612 in I/V and LPF, but also LME49720/LM4562 in I/V and LPF as well. Based on http://nihtila.com/2017/01/08/pcm1794a-output-stage-opamp-measurements-lm4562-ne5532-and-opa2134/: 
_"The best solution is to use NE5532 in I/V-stage and LM4562 in differential amplifier as it gives almost identical performance to all-LM4562 implementation"._

If DAC implementation is a very good one and the PCB layout is very good too, then with cheap opamps we can achieve lowest THD+N and a neutral sound.


----------



## dB Cooper

Migrating to a laptop and regrettably have to let my old friend go. It's up for grabs and would rather it go to an enthusiast. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ASUS-Essen...197078&hash=item215f9b2b97:g:yRUAAOSwW7FdOQXp


----------



## Panagiotis (Aug 11, 2019)

Hello dear friends

I have been using for a couple of years 3X AD797BR opamps on my asus xonar essence st (of course on a dual to mono soic adaptor) being gratly satisfied until i tried the opa1622 opamp. I've been greatly impressed! Currently I have only one on the buffer stage keeping my ad797br's on the IV section.

I'm thinking of purchasing two more opa1622 for the IV stage but I also study the case of trying a FOX LAB NT-D1 discrete op amp on the buffer stage as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOX-Lab-NT...564395?hash=item1cd45721eb:g:GM8AAOSwK-NbaBES

Do you have any experience on the FOX LAB NT-D1 discrete op amp? I cannot find any reviews anywhere... For the people that might suggest Burson, I'd say that I'm not willing to spent the amount for them as a personal decision.

I thank you in advance.


----------



## WarrenR (Nov 29, 2019)

Hi.

I've been thinking about picking this up again.  I had this card many years ago with stock op amps driving some HD650's and I wasn't that impressed back then from what I can remember.  At the moment I have a Chord Mojo and some Nighthawks.  They don't get much use so I am thinking of selling them and replacing them with a soundcard.  I currently have some Denon AH-D1001 (Creatives Aurvana's) which are 32 Ohms.  I currently have a Xonar DG powering these and the Xonar isn't too bad for a cheap Soundcard.

I've read the headphone amp of the Essense ST is a real weak point.  How will it drive the Denon AH-D1001's?  I've heard low ohm headphones can be distorted with the Essence ST.  If I get the Essence it will also be sat next to a graphics card.  Will this be a problem?  My PSU is very very good quality.

Cheers.


----------



## PurpleAngel

WarrenR said:


> Hi.
> I've been thinking about picking this up again.  I had this card many years ago with stock op amps driving some HD650's and I wasn't that impressed back then from what I can remember.  At the moment I have a Chord Mojo and some Nighthawks.  They don't get much use so I am thinking of selling them and replacing them with a soundcard.  I currently have some Denon AH-D1001 (Creatives Aurvana's) which are 32 Ohms.  I currently have a Xonar DG powering these and the Xonar isn't too bad for a cheap Sound card. I've read the headphone amp of the Essence ST is a real weak point.  How will it drive the Denon AH-D1001's?  I've heard low ohm headphones can be distorted with the Essence ST.  If I get the Essence it will also be sat next to a graphics card.  Will this be a problem?  My PSU is very very good quality. Cheers.


I would not call the Asus Xonar Essence ST's head amp the weak point (in general), no problem driving 250-ohm headphones.
The Essence ST's headphone jack has an output impedance of 10-Ohm, not the best choice for driving 32-Ohm headphones, as it might cause a (slightly) bloated bass.
Why getting another sound card?
Do you need the features of a sound card?
Otherwise an external DAC/amp might be a better choice.


----------



## WarrenR

PurpleAngel said:


> I would not call the Asus Xonar Essence ST's head amp the weak point (in general), no problem driving 250-ohm headphones.
> The Essence ST's headphone jack has an output impedance of 10-Ohm, not the best choice for driving 32-Ohm headphones, as it might cause a (slightly) bloated bass.
> Why getting another sound card?
> Do you need the features of a sound card?
> Otherwise an external DAC/amp might be a better choice.



I had a snipe set up on a Essence but pulled it at the last minute.  I've decided to keep my Mojo and Nighthawk cans as the sound is just too good.  I also find the Denons that I was going to use with the Essence a little fatiguing whereas the Nighthawks are perfect for my ears.

Cheers.


----------



## xeizo (Jan 10, 2020)

I haven't used my Xonar ST in a long time now, It's PCI and I haven't used PCI mobos for a long time(should have gone for the STX). Anyway, just for fun I built together a simple box with the last PCI mobo I had in the closet a Asus Z87 and other leftover parts. Using a 4790K and 16GB 2133MHz DDR3. I will get back to how it sounds compared to more modern stuff, here is the "leftover parts" build. Can it sound good, one wonders, way more bulky than a desktop DAC anyway  

edit. I would say it sounds good, not as resolving as my audio interfaces, but I think it do sound better than the built in DAC in my A/V-receiver. The ESS 9006s in the receiver can sound a bit harsh. Xonar ST has the upper hand here, as it's buttery smooth and even has more impact/slam than the ESS DACs. One noteworthy thing is the sound became a whole lot better when I turned on Exclusive Mode in Tidal. The Asus(Uni) drivers doesn't seem to like the Windows mixer much. Otherwise, it works pretty flawless with the Uni-drivers. I choose the most stable version, 1.75 something. It has no prolems with the latest Windows 1909 as far as I can tell. I'm currently using three identical LME4562NA/NOPB I got directly from National Semiconductor. The original single 4562 is removed. I like them, I ran LME49990 when I last used the ST. I remember 49990 as high resolving, but the 4562/NOPBs has more body and sound warmer. From what I can recall I preferred that at the time.


----------



## thedonfranz

First. 6 years ago i only changed the buffer op amp from stock to ad823anz. mostly im using speakers via rca for listening. does changing it alone improves the SQ? or do I also need to change the stock iv?

Second. if considering to replace since I bought a lot of different op amps. is it ok to change the iv to unpaired op amps?

Third. also for an upgrade im leaning towards burson op amps maybe v6 vivid? or combination of what is better? i do prefer warm sound signature


----------



## Freshage

For those curious, don't buy direct from Burson Audio for Burson Op-Amps... Their postal service is all over the place. I ordered 3 V6 vivids through their site special offer and that was almost a month ago. They had to change courier and as a result, it went into Singapore post on the 7th and hasn't updated since (ordered at the end of March). I've asked for a refund after giving them the benefit of the doubt on my last communication with them.

Now I've not heard back from Burson... So I guess I just threw away $170.


----------



## Varmintbaby

Freshage said:


> For those curious, don't buy direct from Burson Audio for Burson Op-Amps... Their postal service is all over the place. I ordered 3 V6 vivids through their site special offer and that was almost a month ago. They had to change courier and as a result, it went into Singapore post on the 7th and hasn't updated since (ordered at the end of March). I've asked for a refund after giving them the benefit of the doubt on my last communication with them.
> 
> Now I've not heard back from Burson... So I guess I just threw away $170.



I had issues with them also. First they sent me only 1 op amp when I'd ordered two. Then they send me two additional op amps giving me a total of 3.  I ended up just keeping the third and installing it in my STX II card and they offered me a discounted price on the third since I didnt ask for it. I was only going to buy two since I mainly use headphones with the card, but having the third made it so if I ever connected speakers I would get the benefit. Worked out because I now have some Pioneer DM40 monitors connected to it. Don't give up hope, they are slow when it's normal.... with COVID-19 popping off I'm sure they are even worse. Best of luck to you....


----------



## raoultrifan

That's definitely due to COVID-19 thing, just give'em an email and talk to them.


----------



## Freshage

raoultrifan said:


> That's definitely due to COVID-19 thing, just give'em an email and talk to them.



I've been in comms with them, credit where credit is due, they've been great thus far. I've stated that as long as there is an update to tracking, not even delivery, just an update then I will extend my request for a refund another 2 weeks. But it's not looking like an update will happen. Which means it's almost 4 weeks since the last update on the tracking.

They did state this has been an issue for them and I'm not the only one struggling right now with their postal setup.

It's super annoying as I can't find any suppliers in stock here in the states.


----------



## Freshage

I'd like to give an update as Burson Audio have so far convinced me that they are a great small company.

So the original order tracking still has no movement and it's now been 3 weeks since an update, the last being that it arrived in shipment hub in Singapore on the 7th. I reached out and stated I'd like to refund as I just had zero confidence that it would ever update seeing as I paid for priority shipping. Dennis at Burson without me asking sent out a new set of my order via FedEx Express with no cost to me which has an estimated delivery date of Monday 24th. This was all done yesterday.

If the originals turn up I told Dennis that I'm more than happy to send them back to their office or a reviewer for them as I am not a dishonest person especially for a small company. But I thought I'd just put this here that it's not Burson Audio's fault, they understand they are having shipping issues for international post due to the Singapore Post being remarkably unreliable at this time.

I'll update when the new order arrives, both on audio quality/improvement and if the original order ever arrives.

Lastly, I have a STX ii, my wife has my old STX which has this very random and not common issue that happens from time to time where it blasts random distortion through the right channel or a very loud high pitch so we've ordered an STX ii for her PC as well. If the Op-amps are that good, I'll probably keep the second order if they ever arrive and give Burson their money for that. Excited!


----------



## Eddie C

Hey folks,

I've been using the STX mk1 with V5is for a very long time. Recently have the itch to go external desktop amp to power my Sundara's properly. Would you guys recommend I use RCA line out to use it as a DAC, or go external DAC like the Topping D30?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Eddie C said:


> Hey folks,
> I've been using the STX mk1 with V5is for a very long time. Recently have the itch to go external desktop amp to power my Sundara's properly. Would you guys recommend I use RCA line out to use it as a DAC, or go external DAC like the Topping D30?


Using the STX's line-output (RCA) to connect to an external headphone amplifier is fine, but it bypasses the STX Dolby headphone, so really only (normally) get 2-channel stereo (2.0) audio, with that setup.
If your ok with stereo audio, then go ahead an get an external headphone amplifier.
The STX's headphone jack output impedance is 10-Ohm, which might cause 20-Ohm Hifiman Sundara's to have a bloated bass.
A headphone amplifier (Schiit Magni or JDS Atom or other) with a low output impedance would be better for driving the Sundara (better damping control).
Also using the STX's line-output, takes advantage of all three op-amps, the STX's headphone output only use 2 of the op-amps.


----------



## Weaves (May 1, 2020)

So, I think mine finally bit the dust.  Should I be able to take over the cover and look for bad capacitors, or anything else?


----------



## kiran1103

Am about to go for the WIMA 0.1uf mod for the essense stx ii. Already on burson v6 and love it. Does the below one work? Also looking at pics its adding to the current caps and not replacing correct? I just have to solder it from backside. 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/wima/MKP1D031003G00JSSD/1928-1386-ND/9370328


----------



## Weaves

Weaves said:


> So, I think mine finally bit the dust.  Should I be able to take over the cover and look for bad capacitors, or anything else?



So, it looks as though a Windows 10 update broke the original driver.  I installed Unified drivers and all is right again.
Quick question: 
Would I benefit from using the rca outs from the card into a little dot +1 amp?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Weaves said:


> So, it looks as though a Windows 10 update broke the original driver.  I installed Unified drivers and all is right again.
> Quick question:
> Would I benefit from using the rca outs from the card into a little dot +1 amp?


For a Little Dot +1, not worth it.

The STX can not send it's Dolby headphone out the line-output jacks (RCA).
If you use lower Ohm (Impedance) headphone, like under 50-Ohm, then a Schiit Magni or JDS Atom might be worth it.
The STX headphone jack has a 10-Ohm output impedance, so it can cause lower Ohm headphones to get a bloated bass (louder, less detailed) bass.
I've plugged 32-Ohm headphones into my STX's headphone, which was not really a big issue, but I think my O2 head amp helped bring out the detail.


----------



## Weaves

PurpleAngel said:


> For a Little Dot +1, not worth it.
> 
> The STX can not send it's Dolby headphone out the line-output jacks (RCA).
> If you use lower Ohm (Impedance) headphone, like under 50-Ohm, then a Schiit Magni or JDS Atom might be worth it.
> ...



Thanks Purple Angel,

So, let me ask another question.  Using the ST (my version is pci) primarily with 600ohm DT990's, what would be some good opamp upgrades here in 2020?

Thanks in advance


----------



## PurpleAngel

Weaves said:


> Thanks Purple Angel,
> So, let me ask another question.  Using the ST (my version is pci) primarily with 600-Ohm DT990's, what would be some good op-amp upgrades here in 2020?
> Thanks in advance


I used AD757BR op-amps, but there are lots of other good op-amps.


----------



## Marval (May 19, 2020)

Hi guys ! 
So, after some researches, i recently bought an Asus STX II as lot of peoples said it was very good deal.
I mostly only liked "good sound" without really trying to tweak anything but i'm here for some advices about that.

So, most of the time, i'm listening and mixing electronic music, trance and progressive, which need deep bass and clear high frequency.
And i'm here because, after testing for 1 week my card (I heard Op-Amp need time to adjust, just like headphones/Speaker),i find the sound "cheap". 
I use my card only with headphones (Sennheiser HD-700 and Pioneer HDJ 2000) and with both of them, while lot of precedent experiences made me find them pretty amazing, the sound here looks like it lacks of power, of "surround", like if its too cheap in the bass, and too generous on the mid and very high frequency, especially when i use the Hi-fi mode.
I mean, there's a big improvement in spatialization and clarity, but i find the sound very "little", where everything seems cheap almost like what 30$ earbuds can deliver in term of presence if i dont tweak the equalizer a lot (like +10 to +15 on 60Hz and -5 on 500Hz and 1Khz), which is way too much for the neutrality.
And even with this, i'm still feeling the sound just being enhanced but not very powerfull as its basics, because enhhancing that much obviously destroy all frequencies.
The impact on the bass are not here at all, it just add presence without any precision.
And here, i'm not talking about too bass-boosted previous setup who might had "damaged" my sense, nop, just about a VERY cheap sound if i dont touch the equalizer.
Most of the time, it always ended after half an hour, finding my ears exhausted by the high frequencies, without having enjoyed anything because of the cheap sound caused by the big mid and little bass !

I tried tweaking the Muses 8920 originally put in the card for the LME49720, and it sounded like less clearer high frequencies, without adding any "power" to the bass, so, all in all, too mid and high powered.

My question is, is there any Op-Amps who can help my new card deliver real deep and spatialized bass and correct the "Cheap Mid frequencies" effect?

Thanks for your advices, it could really help me finding a solution different than just returning it 

Edit : Made a long-term musician friend of mine test it and he had exactly the same thought, sound not equalized is looking little and "compressed" like if it was coming out from a very little source, hardly better than a motherboard built-in sound aside clarity and spatialization


----------



## Octavian81

rjm003 said:


> Sure, let me give it a shot.
> 
> Here's the stock board with the cover off,
> 
> ...


Hello alphanumerics1, one question if you allow me, wima capacitors have a way to be assembled? I can't figure out if they have a positive and negative pole and how to differentiate them. Thank you.


----------



## KING DRANZER

Which OP AMP config be best if i want best possible surround, wide sound-stage, lossless details, neutral and clear output.


----------



## Dartin Bout

I don't know about the STX II yet, but I have been running a full Burson V6 VIVID 7.1 RCA output from my Auzentech for the 2 years. It is the sweetest thing, I've ever heard, outside of small, live music clubs. MY HTPC needs to be upgraded and I need a PCI-E solution. I just got STX II card and I ordered the rest of the VIVIDS. I expect to die a happy man. I came here to see if anybody had ever modified the Faraday Cage (God,  the geek in me loves typing Faraday). Anybody modded one yet?


----------



## PurpleAngel (Jun 13, 2020)

KING DRANZER said:


> Which OP AMP config be best if i want best possible surround, wide sound-stage, lossless details, neutral and clear output.


----------



## KING DRANZER

PurpleAngel said:


> IMHO, I doubt surround sound and sound stage are affected by which op-amps you use.


I have come across multiple quotes in this thread and other related treads saying that one op-amp made the sound stage wider and improved surround over the other. Some even claim it to make difference to level of improving surround by clearly distinguishing and giving clear separation to channels over headphone making movie watching experience improved a lot.


----------



## 18000rpm

I've just recently replaced my Xonar D2X with the STX II 7.1 (I need surround and LFE) and am very happy with the improved sound.

I'm interested in upgrading my op-amps but I'm concerned about removing the EMF sheild. Wouldn't that cause noise? My PC is also used for movies (with video processing etc), gaming etc.

Also I read in some of the earlier posts that some people had heat and reliability issues with Bursons. Is this no longer an issue?


----------



## bcschmerker4 (Jul 15, 2020)

@18000rpm *The BURSON® V5i is the largest dual-amplifier module that will fit under the  ASUS® XONAR® Essence™ ST/X/II's stock RFI shield;* I have it shortlisted for the I-V of _my_ STX with a Signetics® NE5532 shortlisted for the line-level buffer.  In either of my µATX desktops (viz., the ASUS® CM1630-06 (ASUS M4A78LT-M/CM1630/DP_MB) and/or the Hot Rod gPC (GIGABYTE® GA-MA78GM-S2HP 2.0), I'd need the original ST to utilize any of the V5, V6 Classic, or V6 Vivid, short of retrofitting any of Burson's 5-1/4" half-height head-amp modules; both desktops' 'boards have the PCI x1 and x16 adjacent, with the legacy PCI 2.2 slots at the system unit foot in both cases.


----------



## 18000rpm (Jul 15, 2020)

bcschmerker4 said:


> @18000rpm *The BURSON® V5i is the largest dual-amplifier module that will fit under the  ASUS® XONAR® Essence™ ST/X/II's stock RFI shield;* I have it shortlisted for the I-V of _my_ STX with a Signetics® NE5532 shortlisted for the line-level buffer.  In either of my µATX desktops (viz., the ASUS® CM1630-06 (ASUS M4A78LT-M/CM1630/DP_MB) and/or the Hot Rod gPC (GIGABYTE® GA-MA78GM-S2HP 2.0), I'd need the original ST to utilize any of the V5, V6 Classic, or V6 Vivid, short of retrofitting any of Burson's 5-1/4" half-height head-amp modules; both desktops' 'boards have the PCI x1 and x16 adjacent, with the legacy PCI 2.2 slots at the system unit foot in both cases.



Ah, so I can buy 3 DUAL BURSON V5i (I'm using RCA outputs) and keep my EMF shield. Are there any reliability/overheating issues with the V5i?

And for those of you who removed the EMF shield, do you get any additional noise?

How can I buy V5i when they show this chart


----------



## Eddie C

I do not recommend the V5i, at least with the pair i had. Now and then it would have a grainy fuzzy sound when no music was playing, which is less apparent when using higher impedance headphones. I've also seen this mentioned by someone else before.


----------



## Globali (Jul 23, 2020)

Hi

Did you manage to do this and what were the results?



kiran1103 said:


> Am about to go for the WIMA 0.1uf mod for the essense stx ii. Already on burson v6 and love it. Does the below one work? Also looking at pics its adding to the current caps and not replacing correct? I just have to solder it from backside.
> 
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/wima/MKP1D031003G00JSSD/1928-1386-ND/9370328


----------



## Moses4188

raoultrifan said:


> @Moses4188, I would try OPA1612 in I/V and LPF, but also LME49720/LM4562 in I/V and LPF as well. Based on http://nihtila.com/2017/01/08/pcm1794a-output-stage-opamp-measurements-lm4562-ne5532-and-opa2134/:
> _"The best solution is to use NE5532 in I/V-stage and LM4562 in differential amplifier as it gives almost identical performance to all-LM4562 implementation"._
> 
> If DAC implementation is a very good one and the PCB layout is very good too, then with cheap opamps we can achieve lowest THD+N and a neutral sound.



What about OPA1656 or  NE5532?


----------



## raoultrifan

Moses4188 said:


> What about OPA1656 or  NE5532?


Yes, of course, I don't see why not. Just measure the DC voltage on the outputs before connecting an external amp or the headphones.


----------



## L36i

Thought I'd share my experience. I recently swapped out my LM49720NA for V6 Classic on my Xonar STX. I have HD650s with stock cable. All I have to say is WOW. These op amps are no snake oil. The best out there. Worth every dollar. This sounds cliche as heck but with the V6 there are sounds in songs I've never perceived before.


----------



## kiran1103

Globali said:


> Hi
> 
> Did you manage to do this and what were the results?


Hi, 

Sorry for being late. Yes I did and it did get the micro details out. Am so impressed. It did significantly change the sound


----------



## Telix

I can't believe I started this thread 12 years ago and it's still getting new posts!!


----------



## Rantanplan

Yup, and its about to have one more.

Thanks to this thread, i started swapping my op-amps a few months ago.



Eddie C said:


> I do not recommend the V5i, at least with the pair i had. Now and then it would have a grainy fuzzy sound when no music was playing, which is less apparent when using higher impedance headphones. I've also seen this mentioned by someone else before.



I just ran into the same issue, especially when they were used in the I/V stage, that's a shame for their price.


----------



## bcschmerker4

*BURSON® Audio has released a revised hybrid dual amplifier as of 29 May 2021:*  The Model V5i-D, which is probably compact enough for any of the ASUS® XONAR® ST, STX, or STX II.  Electrically compatible with the same models as the earlier V5i.  BubisUK has a review in progress as I post this.


----------



## davidrf

Hi there, my Essence STX I suddenly began to emit a loud static noise on the right channel. I tried to swap the two 2114Ds op-amps and now the noise is on the left channel, but the right channel is 100% dead. No sound, no static. Would I fix the problem by changing both 2114Ds with new ones? Thanks!


----------



## fredeb

Telix said:


> I can't believe I started this thread 12 years ago and it's still getting new posts!!


I've come back to this thread so many times over the years , thank you so much for starting it Telix ! Great opamp lessons .


----------



## connieflyer

Same here, still subscribed


----------



## Jonathan Crouch

I still visit but I won’t use another E-STX. I’m too used to high end desktop DACs now especially Toppings considering the price to performance ratio.


----------



## davidrf

Ok, this thread is surely awesome. Any help with what I posted above?  Thanks


----------



## fredeb

davidrf said:


> Hi there, my Essence STX I suddenly began to emit a loud static noise on the right channel. I tried to swap the two 2114Ds op-amps and now the noise is on the left channel, but the right channel is 100% dead. No sound, no static. Would I fix the problem by changing both 2114Ds with new ones? Thanks!


It certainly must be worth a try David  , It does sound as though the opamps may be fried , perhaps the STX is on the way out . Examine the opamp sockets for damage when you swap out the opamps . If you don't have or can't loan any replacement opamps the cheapest route may be NE5532 , just to see if the card is still working . If not , I guess you could get a techie to replace all electrolytic caps and perhaps reflow solder .

Good luck


----------



## fredeb

.... and be sure to install opamps in correct orientation .

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/...ar_Essence_STX_OPamp_swapping_instruction.zip


----------



## fredeb

Jonathan Crouch said:


> I still visit but I won’t use another E-STX. I’m too used to high end desktop DACs now especially Toppings considering the price to performance ratio.


Hi Jonathan . Which Topping are you using ? I've been considering buying the E50 .


----------



## dav3

Can you upgrade just two op-amp slots (A and B in the instructions) and still use the RCA output for speakers? I use my headphones 90% of the time and don't care much to upgrade the speaker's sound right now.


----------



## Voxata

Yeah, it's best to just do all of them though. Unless you are using some crazily expensive opamp.


----------



## dav3

Voxata said:


> Yeah, it's best to just do all of them though. Unless you are using some crazily expensive opamp.


Thanks for your reply;

I'm looking at getting the Burson Audio Dual V6 Vivid's and I guess they are a bit pricey.. it's $123 for 2 vs $207 for 3 making it $84 cheaper.

As long as the speakers don't sound worse than they currently do I'd be happy with that.


----------



## venky

I am planning to buy Audio Technica R70X to connect with my Essence STX. Will this be good enough to drive these cans or do you guys have any suggestions for op amps upgrade?


----------



## PurpleAngel

venky said:


> I am planning to buy Audio Technica R70X to connect with my Essence STX. Will this be good enough to drive these cans or do you guys have any suggestions for op amps upgrade?


My STX could decently drive my 600-Ohm headphones (DT880/DT990), I would also guess(?) the 470-Ohm R70X is easy to drive, for a 470-Ohm headphone.
AD797BR is the op-amps I used, the LME49990 and LME49710 have gotten good feedback.


----------

