# Astell & Kern AK10 portable DAC and amp



## georgelai57

Here's a new product from Astell & Kern - the AK10 portable DAC (for iPhone, Android, Mac and PC) and Amp! See astellnkern.com


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## georgelai57




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## Gurdipurdi

Any word on price?


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## georgelai57

Official price in Singapore is US$320 but pre order price is US$288


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## Gurdipurdi

Thanks, 
  
 but this will not support the 4/4s?


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## georgelai57

gurdipurdi said:


> Thanks,
> 
> but this will not support the 4/4s?


Seems to be iPhone 5 onwards because of lightning connector.


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## Gurdipurdi

Looking at the pictures, it does seem to have a mini-usb in. Also, Samsung devices and pc/mac are supported. So I'd think  iPhone 4(/s) support would be possible — if iriver would have it so.


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## reginalb

georgelai57 said:


> Official price in Singapore is US$320 but pre order price is US$288


 
  
 Pretty handsome, but I wouldn't take it at that price, most likely. As much as I like the size and the form factor, and the fact that the idiots there seem to have figured out output impedance at long last, but still. I would be shocked if it out-performs the Fiio E17. For the smaller size I Would pay a slight premium over the Fiio, but not a $200 premium. But the A&K brand seems to be the "we're going to WAY overcharge for this thing" brand at iRiver. 
  
 EDIT: LOL, after saying that, I cruised over to the A&K section of the iriver shop. Wow, check out ASTELL&KERN MQS ALBUM VOL. 1. Twelve songs for $49. To be fair, it also comes with a 4GB micro SD card. So you get around $15 worth of stuff for that $50.


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## wolfetan44

reginalb said:


> georgelai57 said:
> 
> 
> > Official price in Singapore is US$320 but pre order price is US$288
> ...


 
 The AK100/AK120 sound amazing. I wouldn't call it overpriced at all. I am excited for this amp/DAC, personally.


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## georgelai57

wolfetan44 said:


> The AK100/AK120 sound amazing. I wouldn't call it overpriced at all. I am excited for this amp/DAC, personally.


 
Indeed. The e17 can't function as a DAC when connected to the lightning jack on an iPhone 5 so the AK10 is actually pitched against a different category of product. Way way cheaper than a HP-P1, PHA-1 etc


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## reginalb

georgelai57 said:


> Indeed. The e17 can't function as a DAC when connected to the lightning jack on an iPhone 5 so the AK10 is actually pitched against a different category of product. Way way cheaper than a HP-P1, PHA-1 etc


 
  
 That is a very good point. Perhaps the Android (and hopefully PC functionality) are just perks.


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## wolfetan44

You can use it with the computer.





reginalb said:


> georgelai57 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed. The e17 can't function as a DAC when connected to the lightning jack on an iPhone 5 so the AK10 is actually pitched against a different category of product. Way way cheaper than a HP-P1, PHA-1 etc
> ...


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## georgelai57

wolfetan44 said:


> You can use it with the computer.



Although it can be used for Macs and PCs, I feel that buying it for that purpose solely would not be justified as there are tons of alternatives available. The primary objective is as a iPhone and Android portable DAC/amp. 

And for those who don't want to pay the high prices of their AK100 and AK120 DAPs, here is one alternative using your iPhone as the digital transport.


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## Bill-P

And here I was thinking of purchasing a AK100/AK120... and this came out.
  
 Looks just like what the doctor ordered. I have contents on iTunes that I wouldn't be able to sync with the AK100/120 easily... but if I could use my iPhone or MacBook with an amp/DAC like this, it's just perfect.
  
 At about the same size as an ODAC, it's pretty damn impressive! Specs say 110dB SNR and -106dB crosstalk... (iPhone's crosstalk is -75dB)
  
 Wolfson DAC is just icing on the cake.
  
 Totally going to be on the lookout for this!


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## reginalb

georgelai57 said:


> Although it can be used for Macs and PCs, I feel that buying it for that purpose solely would not be justified as there are tons of alternatives available. The primary objective is as a iPhone and Android portable DAC/amp.
> 
> And for those who don't want to pay the high prices of their AK100 and AK120 DAPs, here is one alternative using your iPhone as the digital transport.


 
  
 About as thick, but otherwise it appears to actually be quite a bit smaller.


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## JmoonAK

Guys, more details on the AK10 is found here: http://astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak10/ak10_feature.asp
  
 We just showed it off at RMAF with VERY positive responses. Along with the Lighting connector, a USB cable is provided as well, allowing it to be used as a USB DAC and fully compatible with for both PC and Mac!


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## wolfetan44

Thanks, Jimmy!





jmoonak said:


> Guys, more details on the AK10 is found here: http://astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak10/ak10_feature.asp
> 
> We just showed it off at RMAF with VERY positive responses. Along with the Lighting connector, a USB cable is provided as well, allowing it to be used as a USB DAC and fully compatible with for both PC and Mac!


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## kimvictor

I'm excited! I love AK100 and hopefully AK10 will be good. But no S/PDIF support?


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## reginalb

Still think the price is a touch steep, but looks like the $300 range was about right:
  
http://www.headphone.com/headphone-amps/astellkern-ak10-headphone-ampdac.php


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## kimvictor

reginalb said:


> Still think the price is a touch steep, but looks like the $300 range was about right:
> 
> http://www.headphone.com/headphone-amps/astellkern-ak10-headphone-ampdac.php


 
 That seems pretty reasonable if they have SQ level of AK100.


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## shotgunshane

jmoonak said:


> Guys, more details on the AK10 is found here: http://astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak10/ak10_feature.asp
> 
> We just showed it off at RMAF with VERY positive responses. Along with the Lighting connector, a USB cable is provided as well, allowing it to be used as a USB DAC and fully compatible with for both PC and Mac!




I'm going to assume (or hope) the output is as clean as the ak100 was, so I can use it in conjunction with a Meier Quickstep amp.

Can you confirm the amp stage? Is it using discrete fets like the ak100? Or is it really just a dac with digital volume control of the line out?


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## qtiefi

How does the sound of this compare to the e17?


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## all999

qtiefi said:


> How does the sound of this compare to the e17?


 
  
 How should we know that?


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## CosmicHolyGhost

so who is gonna amp this? LoL


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## kimvictor

qtiefi said:


> How does the sound of this compare to the e17?


 
 If we assume that iRiver used AK100's components, it's likely better, but no one knows for sure.


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## Gurdipurdi

A small piece on the AK10. Seems to be a AK100 without the screen and storage. So perhaps an AK12 in the future? 
  
 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/canjam-at-rmaf-2013-part-1/?page=2


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## f198

*Astell & Kern external USB DAC New AK10 release (3pages)​* http://www.imp3.net/2/show.php?itemid=22424&page=3


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## reginalb

jmoonak said:


> Guys, more details on the AK10 is found here: http://astellnkern.com/eng/htm/ak10/ak10_feature.asp
> 
> We just showed it off at RMAF with VERY positive responses. Along with the Lighting connector, a USB cable is provided as well, allowing it to be used as a USB DAC and fully compatible with for both PC and Mac!


 
  
 Do we have a date? 
  
 Really wish this had a line-out.


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## GoSUV

I just picked up an AK10 and a new 64GB iPod Touch yesterday. I have not compared it with the AK100/AK120 before as I wasn't prepared to leave the iOS ecosystem, and I'm glad that A&K released this product so that I can still enjoy music without using the iPod's built in DAC.
  
 Initial impressions are that it is a significant improvement over the iPod's internal DAC, as the music is much smoother, and the sound is better controlled. Couldn't believe it is very light, despite with a built-in battery. The included leather case is a nice touch also.


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## Gurdipurdi

Wohoo, first impressions! Glad you like it.


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## georgelai57

gosuv said:


> I just picked up an AK10 and a new 64GB iPod Touch yesterday. I have not compared it with the AK100/AK120 before as I wasn't prepared to leave the iOS ecosystem, and I'm glad that A&K released this product so that I can still enjoy music without using the iPod's built in DAC.
> 
> Initial impressions are that it is a significant improvement over the iPod's internal DAC, as the music is much smoother, and the sound is better controlled. Couldn't believe it is very light, despite with a built-in battery. The included leather case is a nice touch also.




I placed a pre-order for the same reason that I did not want to leave the Apple and iOS ecosystem. However for those of us here in Singapore the launch has been delayed from end of the month to mid-November. 

I see from the website that the micro (mini?) USB terminal on the AK10 looks recessed so it might not fit other cables. Is this true?

And do post more impressions, please, as you are the first person on this thread that's actually taken delivery. Thanks.


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## kimvictor

gosuv said:


> I just picked up an AK10 and a new 64GB iPod Touch yesterday. I have not compared it with the AK100/AK120 before as I wasn't prepared to leave the iOS ecosystem, and I'm glad that A&K released this product so that I can still enjoy music without using the iPod's built in DAC.
> 
> Initial impressions are that it is a significant improvement over the iPod's internal DAC, as the music is much smoother, and the sound is better controlled. Couldn't believe it is very light, despite with a built-in battery. The included leather case is a nice touch also.


 
 Whoo! Nice impressions! I want one for my android so I don't have to carry a separate AK100. I want to do a comparison/review with AK100, but I'm broke right now.


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## GoSUV

georgelai57 said:


> I placed a pre-order for the same reason that I did not want to leave the Apple and iOS ecosystem. However for those of us here in Singapore the launch has been delayed from end of the month to mid-November.
> 
> I see from the website that the micro (mini?) USB terminal on the AK10 looks recessed so it might not fit other cables. Is this true?
> 
> And do post more impressions, please, as you are the first person on this thread that's actually taken delivery. Thanks.


 
 The USB terminal on the unit is recessed, so it appears that only the supplied cables will fit. Also the port does not seem to be the standard USB micro-B either (it's definitely not mini-B), but I will try my local computer arcades to see if such a connector or cable is available (USB-A to AK10). But getting such a cable that fits the recessed port may still not get the unit to work with legacy iOS devices that uses the 30-pin connector with the CCK either, as the manufacturer specifically mentions only the iPhone5 (s/C) and the iPod Touch 5G as being supported for Apple. So for example if you have an iPhone4S that runs iOS 7 or an iPad4 or older, you may still be out of luck.
  
 Sonic impressions I'll reserve for later, as the unit is still brand new and breaking in.
  
 But I can share some more usability impressions.
  
 This morning I worn the unit to work on my commute. I clipped the unit to my jeans belt, slipped the iPod in my jeans pocket, and it is almost weightless. Portability is unbeatable. Also, it is very convenient to pause the music, forward/backward skip tracks, and adjust volume, without removing my iPod from the pocket, and you can just directly access the unit with buttons. In fact, all you need is just to connect up the cables and you can just hit play/pause on the unit without fiddling with the iPod's touch screen at all. This is excellent when you put your entire library on the iPod on shuffle and just let the music flow.
  
 Since the unit is so small, the leather case will only fit belts that are not too big or thick. You can remove the small elastic band that's supplied with the case, so it is easier to slip the flap onto your belt.
  
 P.S. I use the unit with a pair of Shure SE530 IEM. I don't hear hiss at all, and the output impedance being 1 ohm, matches well with the IEM nicely. Later I will try with my laptop and my Beyer T5p full size headphones.


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## georgelai57

Actually it sounds perfect in both sense of the word because I intend to use it with my iPhone 5. It is the recessed jack that worries me as it limits us to only their cable whose length (what is it by the way?) may not suit different purposes e.g. iPhone 5 in pocket, in backpack, etc. Thanks again.


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## GoSUV

The Lightning to AK10 cable is only about 6 inches long, and the USB-A to AK10 cable is about 1 meter long.
  
 And it looks as though you are limited to only the supplied cables as the shape of the plastic casing of the connector is molded into the shape of the recess in the unit itself.
  
 Now before anyone shouts "RIP OFF!" and mourns that we cannot just use cheap off-the-shelf cables with a length of our choice, but I really do think the recessed port idea is a brilliant design. The AK10 is a portable device, and is designed to be used as such, and with a connector this small, tremendous stress is going to be put on the electrical contacts themselves in daily use where the unit is going to be flopped around, pulled and crushed. In no time either the cable or the port itself is going to break. But it seems this design is making the weakest link strong by having the molded part of the plastic casing share the load across the recessed part after insertion. And it is evident that it feels very robust in the hand. I do not fear that the cable or the connector would break after moderate use. You just have to see and touch the real thing to see what I mean.
  
 I don't work for A&K, but it is curious why this isn't in their marketing material.
  
 However I do appreciate good designs when I encounter them.


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## GoSUV

This is unofficial, but:
  
*The AK10 does work with the iPhone4S and iPad2 with the USB Camera Connector, running on iOS 7.*
  
 You do not need a powered USB hub as with some other USB DACs who draw power from USB itself, as the AK10 does have its own built-in battery.
  
 Obviously, you cannot use the Lightning cable as both the iPhone4S and iPad2 (or iPad3) have the old 30-pin connector, so you'll need the USB-A to AK10 cable that is 1 meter long. Also, one caveat I found is that the volume levels seem to be quite a bit lower than compared to the iPod Touch 5G (Lightning). I set the volume to be around 50-60% on the iPod Touch 5G, but need to go up to 80-90% on both the iPhone4S and iPad2 for the same listening levels. That's not a big problem to me, but may be an issue for people who have less sensitive headphones.
  
 Note that the rotary volume pad on the AK10 is a "drive-by-wire" design, and moves in step with the visual slider on your iDevice.
  
 The other hard buttons all seem to work properly, such as play/pause, skip/back etc.


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## georgelai57

gosuv said:


> The Lightning to AK10 cable is only about 6 inches long, and the USB-A to AK10 cable is about 1 meter long.
> I
> And it looks as though you are limited to only the supplied cables as the shape of the plastic casing of the connector is molded into the shape of the recess in the unit itself.
> 
> ...




I totally agree with your observation regarding the design. In fact initially I was annoyed that it wasn't the standard USB size so I could use my normal cables but indeed the USB plug would have been disproportionately big. I think 6 inches is about right. 

Although I'll still wait to get mine and then explore aftermarket cables


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## HiFiGuy528

worked great on my iPhone 5c with the included Lightning to micro-USB cable.


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## georgelai57

hifiguy528 said:


> worked great on my iPhone 5c with the included Lightning to micro-USB cable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ExpatinJapan

The length of the included cables (and that they dont end in USB-A so I can use my own) is off putting for me.


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## Kermy

Is there a place I can pre-order this right now in the US?


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## Rage038

Can anyone comment if it also works on other Android phones?


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## kimvictor

rage038 said:


> Can anyone comment if it also works on other Android phones?


 
 iRiver says it works with GS3,4.


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## Rage038

kimvictor said:


> iRiver says it works with GS3,4.


 
 Yes, but I have an HTC and I wouldn't switch over to Samsung to use this device. On the other hand, I really want to use this device.


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## kimvictor

rage038 said:


> Yes, but I have an HTC and I wouldn't switch over to Samsung to use this device. On the other hand, I really want to use this device.


 
 I guess you can try contacting iriver. Ask them if they have tested with HTC phones. Otherwise, you may also choose to wait for user responses(but know that not that many head-fiers own HTC phone+AK10).


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## Rage038

That's probably the best thing to do. Hopefully they provide you with a 10-15 cm cable.


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## Philipperus

What do you guys think... How would the ak10 pair with the new jh audio roxanne? Or CIEM's in generall?


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## xero404

Been following the Fiio E18 but came across this and the form factor is so much more friendly for my train commute. That price though! I guess that apple license is pretty expensive...


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## kimvictor

xero404 said:


> Been following the Fiio E18 but came across this and the form factor is so much more friendly for my train commute. That price though! I guess that apple license is pretty expensive...


 
 The sound will likely be good too! I mean seriously.


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## MH01

It's actually a lot bigger than I had expected. Looking forward to some reviews.


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## LCfiner

I just heard about this thing. I think I need to pick one up at launch. it’s perfect for my needs It’s the smallest Apple approved outboard DAC/amp unit out there. and the cheapest too. compared to the bulky HP-P1 or a CLAS/amp combo or the new Centrance units, this thing is actually portable and doesn't cost over 500 bucks. 
  
 Having playback controls on the unit is also really smart. Again, first time I’ve seen this on one of these things.
  
 I’ve owned an RWAK100 before and liked the sound a lot (the original AK100 I was mixed about). This unit looks to be similar to the AK100 mk2 with a 1 ohm output. Output SQ should be pretty good (positive first impressions are a good sign). And no need for me to give up the smoothness of iOS


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## jespersen

If they require a proprietary cable I would expect more choice than only a 15cm lighting and 1m USB cable at least as an available accessory; but really more should be included in the package. Personally I would not purchase this AK10 without also a 1m lighting cable, allowing me to put the iDevice further away and have the AK10 in a convenient location. 15cm seems a bit long for making an iDevice/AK10 "sandwich", but too short for having the iDevice in the inner jacket pocket and the AK10 on the hip... At ~300$ this should be solved.


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## Gurdipurdi

jespersen said:


> If they require a proprietary cable I would expect more choice than only a 15cm lighting and 1m USB cable at least as an available accessory; but really more should be included in the package. Personally I would not purchase this AK10 without also a 1m lighting cable, allowing me to put the iDevice further away and have the AK10 in a convenient location. 15cm seems a bit long for making an iDevice/AK10 "sandwich", but too short for having the iDevice in the inner jacket pocket and the AK10 on the hip... At ~300$ this should be solved.


 
 Agreed. But I fear, since this is the cheapest of AK's offerings, that they will milk the accessories department.


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## georgelai57

Pros and cons of different approaches. I'd hate something with too many cables and accessories that I might not use. Quality will be lower and you're paying for something you don't need. What is more important as a poster earlier here who has bought it said, which is how the mini/micro USB going into the unit looks like, whether after market cable jacks will also fit.


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## audionewbi

Placed my order, I hope it pairs nicely with ipod nano. Its price and versatility makes it a good relatively cheap for on the go music listening in cases where you dont want to take anything expensive.
 Hopefully it pays off and hopefully some genious figures out how to pair it with ipod classic. 
  
 I know onkyo has an app that will let you send HD audio out but I have no way to check if it will work.


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## georgelai57

audionewbi said:


> Placed my order, I hope it pairs nicely with ipod nano. Its price and versatility makes it a good relatively cheap for on the go music listening in cases where you dont want to take anything expensive.
> Hopefully it pays off and hopefully some genious figures out how to pair it with ipod classic.
> 
> I know onkyo has an app that will let you send HD audio out but I have no way to check if it will work.



Hi, are you sure it works with the iPod nano because it's not listed as a compatible device on their website. Astellnkern.com


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## audionewbi

georgelai57 said:


> Hi, are you sure it works with the iPod nano because it's not listed as a compatible device on their website. Astellnkern.com


I guess I'll find out I hope it does. What makes it appleaing for me is that it is not just an Idevice dac alone, that is a big plus and it is the smallest device of its kind.


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## Philipperus

That would be great to know!
I am confused since there are many apps claiming 24/192 playback via apple camera connection kit... 
But according to Astell & Kern the AK10 is via iPhone only able to get 16/48... 
I am wondering if all these apps claiming 24/192 can deal with iDevice Dac/Amps without the camera connection kits...

By the way I found a store claiming to have the AK10 in stock...
http://www.hk-68.com/newrecordsproduct/headphone-earphones/headphone-amplifier/astell-kern-ak10.html


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## reginalb

philipperus said:


> That would be great to know!
> I am confused since there are many apps claiming 24/192 playback via apple camera connection kit...
> But according to Astell & Kern the AK10 is via iPhone only able to get 16/48...
> I am wondering if all these apps claiming 24/192 can deal with iDevice Dac/Amps without the camera connection kits...
> ...


 
  
 It's 24/48 with the iPhone according to the A&K specs on their site.


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## audionewbi

HK has stock of ak10 long before now, matter of time you will find them cheap in the market.


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## jespersen

georgelai57 said:


> I'd hate something with too many cables and accessories that I might not use. Quality will be lower and you're paying for something you don't need.


 
 An extra cable in the package would be rather inexpensive compared with the AK10 price I presume. After all this is marketed as a premium device... Anyways, if only original AK (soon to be available?) cables work this could end up increasing the price for a "usable" setup a lot depending on cable and shipping price, which can be a lot depending on where you live. In any case it's a bit annoying to have to buy accessories right from the start; that is, if a 15cm cable is not your ideal cable length. I presume their marketing dep. thought "short cable for iPhone, long cable for PC use" or something...
  
 I should probably add that the device otherwise looks absolutely cool!


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## audionewbi

Here are my prediction of the future revision:
  
 1-AK20: Dual DAC wolfson variety
 2-AK60: DSD enabled
 3-AK160: Dual DAC sabre native DSD (if the rumors about the Ak200 is true.)


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## BillsonChang007

audionewbi said:


> Here are my prediction of the future revision:
> 
> 1-AK20: Dual DAC wolfson variety
> 2-AK60: DSD enabled
> 3-AK160: Dual DAC sabre native DSD (if the rumors about the Ak200 is true.)




Haha possible portable tube DAC amp for iDevices in the future ^_^ 

http://www.venturecraft.jp/gadget_en/gtt/index.php


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## audionewbi

AK10 arrived, I cannot believe how tiny it is. Bad news it does not support nano 7g (I wish it did, that would be the ultra-portable device of all time).
  
 Soundwise, better than Ak100, as good as ODAC, powerful! 
  
 I am going to pair it with nexus 7 later, I hope it pairs with it.


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## CosmicHolyGhost

Ak10 sounds better than AK120!?


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## audionewbi

cosmicholyghost said:


> Ak10 sounds better than AK120!?


 
 typo I meant AK100 but with certain gears it is as good as ak120. Only with super sensitive and detail oriented IEM like the ck100pro you can sense a better separation from AK120 and less aggressive tonality but honestly that could be all in my head as I am listening to hear a difference between the ak10 and ak120.
  
 It is a shame ipod nano 7G does not work with AK10, I have a feeling that the restriction is placed by iriver themselves. Honestly that combo can offer serious fidelity on the go. I mean add in something like the pico slim (not that you need it) it will provide the ultra portable fidelity on the go with the amazing UI if apple.

 Ak10 does not charge your device. 
  
 The bad, they are using some weird USB connection that I have not seen. Also using the onkyo app despite the 24/96 ability of the AK10 we cannot output anything more than 24/48. 
  
 There has to be a reason why ipod nano 7G is not working, I do not buy the battery argument, that should not be a restriction, it should be an option that user should be left to decide for themselves. Even if it reduces the battery life of nano to 3-4 hours that is plenty for the size of this combo. 
 I have PM Jmoon from iriver, hopefully he can give us some answer. I also have left a massage on their US page.


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## iamdacow

Nom nom popcorn subbed XD


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## audionewbi

I just hope iriver focuses on this section of their product line more. There is no doubt that apple is best in UI and companies who cannot make anything better respect it and embrace it. Listening out of AK10 via FAD VI the sound is incredibly engaging. AK120 sounds a bit more laid back and wider on sound stage but than again it cost 4 times more than AK10. 
  
 Iriver please enable ipod nano 7G usage with your iDac I promise it will make your AK10 become a sale out. The staking with ipod touch 5G becomes a little odd considering how the include cable is not right angel but when I stack it with ipod nano they are like made for one another.
  
 I will take some picture of it in upcoming days but sound-wise it has power and good enough quality that will make a lot happy for it current selling price. That is something very positive considering how I could not stand AK100 right from moment I got it. I do appreciate Ak120 but it is not something I like to take out to work with me.
  
 We live in an era where idevices have dominate control over the market, devices like AK10 will enable good sound for the masses without having price tag that only certain small portion of the society can enjoy. As an entry product and their first official iDac they have got many things right on this. Sure there are a number of things I like the future revision to include like battery meter, use of micro-USB connection, usage of AAA size rechargeable batteries which are user replaceable, but as a first time product it is not bad at all.


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## BillsonChang007

audionewbi said:


> typo I meant AK100 but with certain gears it is as good as ak120. Only with super sensitive and detail oriented IEM like the ck100pro you can sense a better separation from AK120 and less aggressive tonality but honestly that could be all in my head as I am listening to hear a difference between the ak10 and ak120.
> 
> It is a shame ipod nano 7G does not work with AK10, I have a feeling that the restriction is placed by iriver themselves. Honestly that combo can offer serious fidelity on the go. I mean add in something like the pico slim (not that you need it) it will provide the ultra portable fidelity on the go with the amazing UI if apple.
> 
> ...


 
 Indeed we need an answer on why can't AK10 work with iPod Nano 7G! 
  
 Does it work with the old 30-pin? The iClassic!


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## audionewbi

billsonchang007 said:


> Indeed we need an answer on why can't AK10 work with iPod Nano 7G!
> 
> Does it work with the old 30-pin? The iClassic!


 
 I cannot test it, I do not have the cable for it. It uses some strange connector on the ak10 end which I think is unique for AK10. I wish they just made the AK10 a bit longer and instead used a regular USB type A.
  
 I think they have used mini A.


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## CosmicHolyGhost

audionewbi

Thanks for clearing this up...


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## audionewbi

no problem. I think the reason why we cannot use ipod nano with AK10 is because the UI on the ipod nano is not identical to ipod touch. AK10 actually uses the OS of ipod touch to navigate to different song and increase/decrease volume. 

 I would rather have those features removed and instead just get hardware volume control than software based volume control and rather use the idevices screen to change track than the hard button provided on the side of AK10 in order to be able to use ipod nano with the AK10. I am sure it can be fixed with a firmware update, I am almost certain of it and I know (and i hope) if there is enough interest they will implement it just like how the AK120 UI was implemented on Ak100.


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## Sweden

What is the output impedance of this thing?
 The AK100 had way too high output impedance at 23 ohm with low and fluctuating impedance multi driver in-ears.


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## CosmicHolyGhost

1.1 according to the published spec on their website, dont think they r gonna keep the ak100 genius design


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## Sweden

1.1  is rather good. I'm not a believer that the damping factor have to be 10 times for a headphone to sound good, but with these armature in-ears with wildly swinging impedance characteristics you will get a screwed up tonal balance, sometimes for the better, most times for the worse, with that high output z.
 Good to see this company making a little effort this time.
 How they could release a product made for portable headphone with that big a flaw and that high a price is outrageous.


----------



## Spadge

Can anyone who has this device confirm weather or not it works via a USB 3 port on a 64bit Operating system?

Thanks,
Paul


----------



## kimvictor

spadge said:


> Can anyone who has this device confirm weather or not it works via a USB 3 port on a 64bit Operating system?
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul


 
 Interestingly, my mid 2012 air with usb 3 port works.... I wonder what's up.

  

 Edit: My bad. I thought this was the AK100 thread. This is my answer for AK100, not AK10. Disregard this answer.


----------



## DW999

Just picked up one of these in HK.
  
 After listening to it for a few days, I find the sound to be quite adequate for what it is, but I feel it works better as a USB DAC than with my iPhone 5S.
  
 The biggest flaw I think is that the Lightning cable is much to short to be useful.  It makes it very awkward to carry; it won't all fit in my pant pocket and its not quite long enough to put in my work bag with the AK10 hanging out for audio controls.
  
 Also, this thing is quite expensive, 3000 HKD (~390 USD).  However, after I got back to Taiwan, I was informed that these can be bought locally for about 7000 NTD (~240 USD).
  
 Quote:


billsonchang007 said:


> Indeed we need an answer on why can't AK10 work with iPod Nano 7G!
> 
> Does it work with the old 30-pin? The iClassic!


 
  
 As to why AK10 won't work on iPod Nano 7, iOS devices that use Lightning connectors utilize a new firmware protocol, iAP2, that was released along with the devices.  Past devices and the Nano 7 use iAP1 as a protocol for firmware.  iRiver would have to rewrite the firmware to use both iAP1 and iAP2 in order for the Nano 7 to be compatible.  But then they would need to re-certify the product with Apple; I doubt they want to do this.


----------



## jespersen

dw999 said:


> The biggest flaw I think is that the Lightning cable is much to short to be useful.  It makes it very awkward to carry; it won't all fit in my pant pocket and its not quite long enough to put in my work bag with the AK10 hanging out for audio controls.


 
 As predicted earlier in the thread... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hope that Astell & Kern comes out with a longer lighting cable soon, especially since it looks to be proprietary with a plug that exactly fits the resessed opening (maybe for increased solidity, which is likely a good thing). If anyone hears about a longer lighting cable for this device please don't keep it to yourselves...


----------



## John Gazerro

FYI this from A&K when I asked if they would make a 30-pin cable for the AK10:
  
_Dear iriver customer,_
  
_Thank you for contacting iriver customer support._
_When the AK10 gets released, it should have various cables such as the 30-pin cable that would be compatible with older Apple devices. If you have any questions or concerns, please email us back at any time._
  
_Thanks & Regards,_
_iriver Inc.
 CS & Tech Support
 949-336-4540/4541
 shop.iriverinc.com_


----------



## sibilantz

dw999 said:


> Just picked up one of these in HK.
> 
> After listening to it for a few days, I find the sound to be quite adequate for what it is, but I feel it works better as a USB DAC than with my iPhone 5S.
> 
> ...


 
 I was going to pick one of these up as well, however pricing was around $2500 hkd though! How is it so much cheaper in Taiwan?!
 Do you feel it is worth $300 though for portable usage? I mainly use my phone so was going to try to see if this would improve things or if I should just buy another pair of iems... haha
  
 Do you know any taiwan retailers that have a website selling it for that price btw?


----------



## DW999

To be honest, at the price I purchased at, I think this thing is VERY overpriced.  Even at 300 USD (80 USD less than I paid), its overpriced.  I feel the proper price for this should be under 200 USD.
  
 As to the price in Taiwan, I am not quite sure why its so much cheaper here.  Price is listed at ~8500 NTD, but can be negotiated down to ~7000 NTD.
  
 Unfortunately I don't know any Taiwan online retailers as I cannot read Chinese so I don't bother researching these online, I just normally walk into the local shops.
  
 Even though the unit is very compact and light, its very cumbersome to actually use; for portable use, its actually very annoying.
  
 One more nitpick about this product is its volume control.  While the turntable design is very neat and aesthetically pleasing, the rate it changes volume is very annoying.  Each quarter turn only increases/decreases by 1 notch on iPhone and Mac.  1 notch of volume every 25-30 degrees would have been much better than 90 degrees.
  
 Having said that, the sound quality is better than I expected and I enjoy listening to it while sitting at my desk at work; not so much during my commute to work, which was my main purpose for buying this unit.


----------



## GoSUV

Wow, 7000 NTD would be an excellent price, as I've bought this in HK 2 weeks ago for HK$2580 (I live in HK), but have just come back from Taiwan, and didn't see the AK10 yet. I probably wasn't looking seriously and didn't go to the right places, but I would have bought one from Taiwan had I found one and not already bought in HK.
  
 As for cables, mine only came with the short Lightning cable, a 1m USB cable and a 80cm cable for Android phones. No 30-pin cable for older iDevices was included. The Android cable was not included inside the box, but given to me by the retailer in a separate bag.


----------



## Philipperus

I dont get why everyone complains about the price!
If you compare it to the AK100 (whis is pretty much a AK10 with screen and storage) and some comon iDevice Dac/Amp combos --> its a bargain!
A algorhythm solo is only a Dac (not a Wolfson Dac!) and it costs more! A Fostex Hp-p1 costs almost double...


----------



## georgelai57

philipperus said:


> I dont get why everyone complains about the price!
> If you compare it to the AK100 (whis is pretty much a AK10 with screen and storage) and some comon iDevice Dac/Amp combos --> its a bargain!
> A algorhythm solo is only a Dac (not a Wolfson Dac!) and it costs more! A Fostex Hp-p1 costs almost double...


 
 You've hit the nail on the head. If you want a good SMALL DAC/amp to listen to your iPhone on the go, (SMALL is the key operative word here), this is the only product. Slightly bigger might be a CCK+HRT (cumbersome) or a ADL X1 (BIGGER but quite light).


----------



## DW999

In my opinion, EVERYTHING in HiFi industry is overpriced.  That's because companies know they can get us to pay for it.
  
 I work in manufacturing, specifically accessories for consumer electronics and can make a few educated guesses on the actual costs of these devices.
  
 The AK10 BOM cost shouldn't cost more than 20 USD to manufacture and should have a ex-factory price of 22-25 USD. 
  
 Standard industry pricing is to set MSRP 4 times higher than ex-factory pricing meaning a reasonable price for this unit would be ~100 USD (This would include retailers margin as well).  If we were to double that, and give iRiver a HUGE profit, I would still call that reasonable because as someone mentioned before, options for good small DAC/AMP are limited.
  
 At a MSRP of over 300 USD, iRiver's margin's are well over 150 USD per unit.  I call this overpriced and unreasonable.  Especially for something that is not "perfect".
  
 Also, you cannot compare this unit to the AK100.
  
 The AK100 is a DAP and is FAR more complicated to manufacture as well as develop.  The development of the S/W and F/W is considerably more time consuming as is the after sales support; i.e. Firmware updates.
  
 Furthermore, taking away a screen and storage should reduce the price by MORE than 50%.  These two "simple" things take up more than 70% of the BOM cost and development of S/W and F/W hasn't even been amortized into it.
  
 AK10 is not 50% of a AK100; its more like 30%.
  
 While yes, I know the Fostex and Cypher Labs products all cost quite a bit more than the AK10, I believe that these warrant the price, as to me, these sound much better!
  
 Anyways, this is just my opinion and I'm sure it will not win me many friends here.


----------



## GoSUV

You are right, DW999. I guess A&K has the right to charge the highest price they can get away with where consumers are still willing to pay, and this would have absolutely nothing to do with how much it costs to manufacture the product itself in the first place. When you look at competing products, the AK10's price is actually in line with the others (e.g. Solo, HP-P1, Sony's offering). I guess you could also categorize the HRT microstreamer and AQ Dragonfly in there because they would also work with the newer iPhones/iPod Touches running iOS 7 without a powered USB hub, but both the HRT and AQ depend on the player's USB power to drive its headphone amp, with no built-in battery. Whether you think this is a plus or a minus is purely a personal choice.
  
 In fact, as a side note, I was prepared to go for the HRT when I walked to the store, but they had none available and would take 2 weeks to order one in, then ended up buying the AK10 instead as it just came hot off the press. I'd read about it before and didn't think I would be one of the first ones to get it in time for my plane trip last week.
  
 When I looked back, the AK10 actually did serve a little better in terms of usability due to the external control buttons. Had I gone for the HRT, I would have needed the Lightning CCK, plus the USB connecting cable, and I would need to take out my iPod Touch every time I need to do volume adjustments, skip tracks etc and it will be a bit cumbersome to say the least. The iPod can now stay in my pants pocket, and the AK10 attached to my belt, and I can access the basic controls easily there.
  
 P.S. The Meridian Explorer will not work with iPhones/iPod touch/iPads without a powered USB hub, although it is considered another competitor to the microstreamer and Dragonfly.


----------



## georgelai57

I still maintain that if you want to use with laptops, there are many many choices. You want to use with iPhone, there is this, or the slightly more expensive ADL X1 (bigger though light but half the battery life) and then the big boys at higher prices (PHA-1, HP-P1, M8, Theorem).


----------



## BillsonChang007

john gazerro said:


> FYI this from A&K when I asked if they would make a 30-pin cable for the AK10:
> 
> _Dear iriver customer,_
> 
> ...




Thanks for the effort! 


Isn't the AK10 the cheapest DAC that is specially for iDevices? Or is there cheaper version without using the CCK?


----------



## GoSUV

billsonchang007 said:


> Isn't the AK10 the cheapest DAC that is specially for iDevices? Or is there cheaper version without using the CCK?


 
 If you limit it to without using the CCK, yes indeed the AK10 is the cheapest DAC with headphone amp for iDevices. But on the other side of the coin, the Solo's, HP-P1 etc would work with much older iDevices, including smaller (and cheaper) iPod nano's (don't know about the shuffle), or the higher capacity iPod Classic's, should you wish to. So the overall weight, size and price difference could be smaller than you think.


----------



## Purga

When the AK10 is used in combination with an iPhone 5 and a headphone with iphone remote control, does the remote control still work or do i have to use the controls on the AK10 then?
  
 What kind of sound quality boost can i expect with headphones like Sennheiser Momentum or B&W P7 ?
  
 Iam relatively new to headphones and am very interested on using it on the go while commuting. When i listen with my Sennheiser Momentum from my Macbook Air i imagine to hear a slightly better sound quality than from the iPhone, so iam wondering what kind of music quality i can expect from such a DAC/AMP and if it worth the money + the additional weight being carried around.  ( I have never listened to a hifi dac/amp in my life)


----------



## DW999

I wouldn't say that the AK10 is the cheapest DAC/AMP.  I believe I have seen some that are significantly cheaper than this.  But I would say that its the cheapest that uses high end solutions and has a nicely designed housing.
  
 GoSUV, A&K CAN charge whatever they want for it, but I believe what it boils down to in this case is perception of value.  I feel that the AK10 is not quite worth what they are asking.
  
 While it does sound great, its far from spectacular.  I have tried to use the case to attach to my belt, but my belt is too thick and or wide to be used that way.
  
 I guess its just me that feels this way, and to me its a shame, because I really hoped that this would be better than it is.  
  
 I really like the Astell & Kern brand and really like the AK120, I was just hoping not to have to leave the iTunes ecosystem.


----------



## georgelai57

There isn't a cheaper portable DAC/amp if you want to use with an iPhone on the go (and I presume Androids too). There are tons of cheaper portable DAC/amps for laptop use.


----------



## kimvictor

There's a cheaper one for android. Leckerton UHA-4 and UHA-6S.MKII.


----------



## georgelai57

kimvictor said:


> There's a cheaper one for android. Leckerton UHA-4 and UHA-6S.MKII.



Ok I stand corrected. My AK10 is solely for my iPhone 5 use. Thanks.


----------



## DW999

http://akihabaranews.com/2013/10/27/article-en/dda-l10rcbk-new-lightning-headphone-amplifier-remote-control-iphone-2102993618
  
 I have also seen a few others.


----------



## bixby

georgelai57 said:


> There isn't a cheaper portable DAC/amp if you want to use with an iPhone on the go (and I presume Androids too). There are tons of cheaper portable DAC/amps for laptop use.


 
 hrt microstreamer?


----------



## Wyd4

Hey all, how does the amp section compare to the ak100s?


----------



## bixby

From the brief time I spent with both at RMAF, about the same.  But different music, and different players, etc could be more than that.  Did make my touch 5th gen sound better/ different.


----------



## KT66

Surely it can't be long before FIIO do a Lightning DAC
 If others are now starting to do so?


----------



## KT66

dw999 said:


> In my opinion, EVERYTHING in HiFi industry is overpriced.  That's because companies know they can get us to pay for it.
> 
> I work in manufacturing, specifically accessories for consumer electronics and can make a few educated guesses on the actual costs of these devices.
> 
> ...


 
 How much do IRiver pay for the licensing to make a lightning compatible product? I would imagine A LOT!
  
 From my old days in HIFI retail 10x the material cost = retail cost, was the understood rate, 
 and that only allowed for a 30-40% margin at retail.
 So factor in the Cost of Sale Labour and Overheads and you can guess what the manufacturers make.
 HIFI Shops have a lower margin that almost every other high street industry, it's amazing that any of them survive.
  
 Now we mainly buy from Web Sites, HIFI should be cheaper than ever!


----------



## georgelai57

bixby said:


> hrt microstreamer?



I'm not sure you can connect an iPhone 5 direct to the microstreamer.


----------



## bixby

georgelai57 said:


> I'm not sure you can connect an iPhone 5 direct to the microstreamer.


 
  
 Edit:  Semantics I guess, two small cables.  One to do the Apple magic and one short usb.  
  
 Here are a few head-fi folks doing it directly with the Apple lightning to cck/ usb connector.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/682222/ios7-iphone-and-apple-cck/180
  
 I'll be reviewing the HRT microstreamer at my blog below in the next few weeks.  I will be using an ipod touch 5th gen.


----------



## georgelai57

bixby said:


> Here are a few head-fi folks doing it directly with the Apple lightning to cck/ usb connector.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/682222/ios7-iphone-and-apple-cck/180
> 
> I'll be reviewing the HRT microstreamer at my blog below in the next few weeks.  I will be using an ipod touch 5th gen.



Thanks for the link but I am aware of the CCK route. The issue is whether there is any cheaper DAC/amp that can connect directly to the iPhone 5. But thanks anyway.


----------



## Purga

can anyone tell me if IOS headphone remote cable functions work when used with this DAC ?   (microphone, volume, play/pause, etc.)


----------



## DW999

kt66 said:


> How much do IRiver pay for the licensing to make a lightning compatible product? I would imagine A LOT!
> 
> From my old days in HIFI retail 10x the material cost = retail cost, was the understood rate,
> and that only allowed for a 30-40% margin at retail.
> ...


 
 My original estimate for the cost of the unit included the Apple components.  Apple does not charge money to join MFi program, but rather collects royalties per item sold.  The costs stands for less than 2% of the unit cost at the retail side.  So its not as much as you are thinking.
  
 What retailers discount their products to has little effect on the per unit profits at the wholesale level.  Retailers can cut each others throats on pricing all they want, but iRiver still makes the same amount.  This is not to say that retailers discounting products has zero effect on a brand, but thats not what we are talking about here.
  
 Wholesale prices will always remain constant, and it is the retailer that decides the final sale price of the unit based on what the market can take.  Thats my guess to why you can find these discounted to the 7K NTD level in Taiwan.
  
 Purga,
  
 I just tried my iPhone cable with the AK10; unfortunately it does not work.


----------



## georgelai57

purga said:


> can anyone tell me if IOS headphone remote cable functions work when used with this DAC ?   (microphone, volume, play/pause, etc.)



Nope it will not work. The only portable DAC/amp that will work for making/receiving phone calls is the ADL X1 using a special 3.5 mm jack to 3.5 mm interconnect wire they provide. However when you do that you will not be using the DAC portion of the X1. The 3.5 mm jack at both ends have a 3-ring or 4-post design as per your iPhone mic headphones.


----------



## Spadge

JmoonAK has confirmed via PM that the AK10 will work as a USB DAC on 64-bit Windows 8 and USB 3.0.

I think I'm going to get one of these.


----------



## pilgrim-frw

Hi everybody,
Can somebody confirm that this nice little thing will works together with heavy cans such as sen hd600?
Thanks


----------



## DW999

pilgrim-frw said:


> Hi everybody,
> Can somebody confirm that this nice little thing will works together with heavy cans such as sen hd600?
> Thanks


 
 I don't know if this helps, but I tried the AK10 with HD800's the other day.
  
 I thought it lacked the power to push the HD800.  Max volume is like listening to IEM's at 50% volume.


----------



## Purga

dw999 said:


> Purga,
> 
> I just tried my iPhone cable with the AK10; unfortunately it does not work.


 
  
 Quote:


georgelai57 said:


> Nope it will not work. The only portable DAC/amp that will work for making/receiving phone calls is the ADL X1 using a special 3.5 mm jack to 3.5 mm interconnect wire they provide. However when you do that you will not be using the DAC portion of the X1. The 3.5 mm jack at both ends have a 3-ring or 4-post design as per your iPhone mic headphones.


 
  
 thanks for the info! Is there any reason why this feature is not built in any portable DAC ?
  
 What kind of sound quality boost can i expect to the built-in iPhone 5 DAC ? Is it much better? (and therefore worth the additional device, weight, 300$ cost and lack of remote control features?)


----------



## pilgrim-frw

Thanks for comment. Any another?


----------



## Gurdipurdi

purga said:


> What kind of sound quality boost can i expect to the built-in iPhone 5 DAC ? Is it much better? (and therefore worth the additional device, weight, 300$ cost and lack of remote control features?)




+1?


----------



## audionewbi

Wider soundstage, bass impact, much better midrange. I need to say that ak10 has a few bugs that i need to test to confirm it. Its high is just as good as apple so nothing to rave about.


----------



## GoSUV

purga said:


> thanks for the info! Is there any reason why this feature is not built in any portable DAC ?
> 
> What kind of sound quality boost can i expect to the built-in iPhone 5 DAC ? Is it much better? (and therefore worth the additional device, weight, 300$ cost and lack of remote control features?)


 
 The AK10 does already come with basic remote control features, like play/pause, next track, previous track, and volume control. It also has a slide lock which locks out the buttons so you don't accidentally push them. The only "feature" missing compared to your iPhone inline remote would be the ability to place calls and a microphone. But this is a DAC for music playback, and it would defeat the purpose since the very definition of an external DAC is to offload the audio processing to an outboard device for superior quality. If you are going to add a mic mixer in that circuitry, you are going to overly complicate things and make the device unattractive in terms of weight, size and price.
  
 Sound quality boost is of course subjective. Some people think it is crazy to spend another $20 for a better set of earbuds when the bundled (re: free) ones with their iPhone/iPod work just fine. Who am I to argue with them? The best way to decide if this DAC is for you is to try it out and listen for yourself. In general, it is not just about the ability to play "louder" with an external DAC/amp. Granted, the built-in iPhone/iPod volume range is loud enough with most earbuds to seriously damage one's hearing. But what an external DAC/amp provides is better control. You get better treble/bass extension, sweeter midrange, better layering, wider/deeper soundstage and more detail retrieval. You don't have to have an expensive set of earbuds to enjoy these advantages, but of course a decent pair will do the DAC/amp justice.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Basically, there is the FiiO E18 for Andriod and AK10 for iPhone... not bad haha


----------



## NZtechfreak

billsonchang007 said:


> Basically, there is the FiiO E18 for Andriod and AK10 for iPhone... not bad haha


 
  
 ??? There are dozens of USB DAC/amps that work with Android phones.


----------



## BillsonChang007

nztechfreak said:


> ??? There are dozens of USB DAC/amps that work with Android phones.


 
 talking about recent release hehe


----------



## NZtechfreak

billsonchang007 said:


> talking about recent release hehe


 
  
 Fair enough


----------



## audionewbi

Bad news, camera kit does not work with ipod touch 5G and AK10. It detects the AK10 and than displays the message that it is using too much power and hence it cannot be use.


----------



## BillsonChang007

audionewbi said:


> Bad news, camera kit does not work with ipod touch 5G and AK10. It detects the AK10 and than displays the message that it is using too much power and hence it cannot be use.




What iOS?


----------



## audionewbi

billsonchang007 said:


> What iOS?


 
 It is working now, after a full charge it no longer is giving me that error. I am using 7.0.3.


----------



## BillsonChang007

audionewbi said:


> It is working now, after a full charge it no longer is giving me that error. I am using 7.0.3.




Good sign ^_^ the new iOS is very laggy when your batt is low... Agree?


----------



## iamdacow

billsonchang007 said:


> Good sign ^_^ the new iOS is very laggy when your batt is low... Agree?


 

 Eh is that so 0.0, never noticed it lol


----------



## BillsonChang007

iamdacow said:


> Eh is that so 0.0, never noticed it lol




Try it! At full charge 100%, you test the performance. Then when the batt is at around 5% multitasking gets slightly laggy... xD


----------



## iamdacow

billsonchang007 said:


> Try it! At full charge 100%, you test the performance. Then when the batt is at around 5% multitasking gets slightly laggy... xD


 

 Hmm okie XD


----------



## rahjinoh

I haven't got the CCK yet - but tempted to do so. Did anyone manage to test iPhone 5s + CCK + AK10 and see if it output 24/96 instead of down-sampling to 48?
  
 I'm playing my FLACs (192KHz) and DSDs (2.82MHz) with the Onkyo HF Player with HD Pack.


----------



## John Gazerro

I would like to use the AK-10 with an iPod classic. I found a 30-pin male to lightning female cable.  I wonder if this passes audio so it can be used with the AK-10's lightning cable:
  
 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA2JX0YU6536&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Chargers+%26+Cables-_-9SIA2JX0YU6536
  
 Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you!


----------



## GoSUV

I doubt this will work (AK10 with iPod Classic). This is not plumbing. It is not just a matter of getting the right connectors and adaptors to connect up the cables. The iPod Classic lacks the software/firmware code needed to act as a USB master device (may not be the right technical term). In fact, even the iPhone 5 did not have this ability until iOS 7 was released. Strangely, the iPad's can act as such prior to iOS 7.
  
 I tried the AK10 on the Multi-touch iPod nano 7G and it did not work, in case you are also wondering.


----------



## John Gazerro

Thanks for the response. I understand the difficulties. I am somewhat optimistic about getting an AK-10 to work with an iPod classic because A. The adapter cable I found can be used for not just charging but syncing, so it's passing some type of signal and B. I have a Vamp Verza DAC and it can be used with my iPod classic and my iPhone 5 with only a cable swap.


----------



## Philipperus

I would like to buy one...
But the HK-68 store is very very slow. I cant get to the checkout process...
I am from switzerland... 
Where can I online buy an AK10 for 299$ and in stock?


----------



## CJG888

Has anyone tried this?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GEBEN-24Bit-192Khz-USB-Audio-DAC-Portable-Headphone-AMP-Heandphone-Amplifier-iDA-1-for-iPod-iPhone/1163931651.html

Just curious...


----------



## Philipperus

Looks nice... Wolfson wm8741 is a very good dac...
Good price as well...
But i think what makes the ak10 so interesting is its size!
I ordered one... Should be coming next week...
Does anyone know how it would pair with CIEMs?


----------



## audionewbi

I wonder if Vinnie is willing to mod this with wm8741?


----------



## Philipperus

Good idea...
Just emailed them ...
But i guess that the problem would be that the amp wont work anymore because of the firmware...
At least that is the case with a ak100 and ak120 modded with a wm8741 chip.
So it would bi a iDevice dac only...


----------



## audionewbi

Just had a quick look inside AK10, battery is user replaceable as it is plug and play type of thing. There is a little bit of empty room inside the device which moding community can use.
  
 I for one find the low end of AK10 more pronounced than AK120, it is much more meaty than AK120. Volume wise I think it has just about the same volume as AK120. All and all AK120 wins because of soundstage, the rest I honestly thing AK10 does quiet right.
  
 Perhaps the major issue with AK10 that it is not as quiet as AK120 at louder volumes. I can hear a faint sort of humming sound. 
 Okay it seems that the humming sound is not there when I have the ipod set on flight mod. I need to conform this but for now I think it is a poor sheilding issue.


----------



## Philipperus

Hard to imagine that there is some space left... But sounds great!
Would love to see some mods...
Mine is coming monday... Cant wait!


----------



## ohaider

If anyone is getting this and has the Sony PHA-1, I would love some comparisons between the two with the use of an iphone 5.


----------



## audionewbi

philipperus said:


> Hard to imagine that there is some space left... But sounds great!
> Would love to see some mods...
> Mine is coming monday... Cant wait!


 
 Please let us know how you like it. Also I can conform that the camera kit and onkyo app do work and the unit can handle 24/96 and can upsample us well but honestly sonically I cannot see the need. The camera kit adds a bulk and extra cash which is just last think we need in ultra portable set up.
  
 I am doing another run this week with other gears I have so I can decide for good what is the proper tonality of AK10 but for now to my ears it is definitly on the warm organic side with a very nicely presented mid. 
  
  
 Here is a photo from AK10 internal:


----------



## Philipperus

Can I use the onkyo app and output 24/96 without a cck?


----------



## audionewbi

You can playback 24/96 flac and even 24/192 but it will not be played back at those resolution.With the CCK you can playback 24/96 max without having any downsampling.
 What I do with the onkyo app is load my flac files so I do not have to convert it to alac or resample it to so I can transfer it to my ipod touch. Also the onkyo app provides a nice EQ setup which works nicely. 
  
 So to answer your question no.


----------



## Philipperus

just got my ak10!
 the first impression was very good!
 very nice box! was surprised to get a leather case (at this price point). It is a very convenient case!
 The device itself is smaller than I expected...
 As far as sound goes I really like it! its definitely more on the warm side of things... I compared it to a ak120.
 I musst say that the ak120 offers more detail (especially in the highs) (You know the sounds when you hear the artist breathe...)
 The soundstage is also a bit better with the ak120.
 Still, while using the ak10 I never felt like "ou no where is my ak120"!
 But can we really compare the two? I mean the ak10 costs just a quarter of the ak120!
 In terms of value I am 100% happy! for 299$ its a good deal!
 The only thing I would have loved to see would be a a clip on the back of the device and a longer thunderbolt cable so you could use the ak10 just like a ipod shuffle and clip it somewhere on your shirt...
 Other than that its really good (especially with IEMs).


----------



## audionewbi

Agree on that, also i like to see a better set of accessories and support for ipod classic and ipod nano.


----------



## Rocco Khan

Great device. Portable, dynamic sound.
  
 As the AK10 is slightly mid centric, pairs great with Denon D600, which have a U or V shaped frequency response. I have the Cypherlab Solo + ALO RxMK2 and this little device does not sound that far off and most importantly, the AK10 does not weigh a kilo and look like bomb on an airplane.
  
 From a sound perspective, the obvious features of added dynamism, widened soundstage, power to the bass notes are all included.
  
 I have actually ended up using the AK10 a lot. I have had it for the past 2 weeks everyday and have it permanent connect to my iPod. I stopped using the Solo+RxMK2 after a week.
  
 I wished they made the AK10 flatter though by maybe moving the battery so it is next to the wheel so it's rectangular but flatter such that i can just stick it to the back of my iPod.


----------



## Wilderbeast

I've had the AK10 for a couple of weeks now, driving my UE 900 and UM Miracle from an iPhone 5S. Will post a pic or two once I have site permission.
  
 I do like the look and feel of the AK10. It's smaller and lighter than I'd expected and the controls work well. It's possible to nudge the volume up or down in much smaller steps than the 5S buttons allow, though the wheel gets stuck sometimes. I expect it will loosen over time.
  
 My initial impressions of the sound are mixed. Compared with the 5S, the AK10 is warmer and the notes thicker, making a richer sound which I think most people will appreciate. To my ears this comes at a cost though, as music loses some clarity and detail.
  
 I'll post more thoughts once I've had it a while longer.


----------



## vkalia

Erm, with 1.7V out, this isn't really much of an amp, is it?


----------



## kimvictor

vkalia said:


> Erm, with 1.7V out, this isn't really much of an amp, is it?


 
 It's more about the DAC feature than an amp.


----------



## pilgrim-frw

Hi everybody.
Can somebody force to work iPad with ios 7 with hd files ( onkyo hf player). I can't . When I connect ak10 to iPad throuout cck, iOS says that ak10 needs to much energy and cannot be used.
Any ideas,
Thanks


----------



## vkalia

kimvictor said:


> It's more about the DAC feature than an amp.


 
  
 Yeah, I spose so.
  
 I'd really like to see a simple DAP which doesn't bother with an amp - just a source reader/UI that works really well and a good LO.


----------



## kimvictor

vkalia said:


> Yeah, I spose so.
> 
> I'd really like to see a simple DAP which doesn't bother with an amp - just a source reader/UI that works really well and a good LO.


I guess for serious audiophiles, that might be good. But for bit more mainstream market, ak10 is already good enough.


----------



## GoSUV

pilgrim-frw said:


> Hi everybody.
> Can somebody force to work iPad with ios 7 with hd files ( onkyo hf player). I can't . When I connect ak10 to iPad throuout cck, iOS says that ak10 needs to much energy and cannot be used.
> Any ideas,
> Thanks


 
 The AK10 does work with older iDevices running iOS 7 with the CCK and the supplied USB cable. I have tried iPhone 4S, iPad2 and they all work fine. But you have to first turn on the power to the AK10 before connecting otherwise the device might complain and strange things can happen. I have run into an issue with the iPad2 that it froze and wouldn't respond to anything anymore. I have to wait until it shuts down itself and reboot. I guess that's why older devices with the old 30-pin connector isn't officially supported by the AK10.
  
 If your iPad is the one with the Lightning connector, there is no reason to use a CCK. I have tried the iPod Touch 5G and the iPad mini w/Retina and both work without any problems with the supplied Lightning cable. All the iPads also aren't listed as officially supported, but I guess A&K just don't bother to list them on their site since they market it as hifi for your smart phones. Otherwise I see nothing why the iPod Touch 5G would behave any differently than the iPad mini.


----------



## pilgrim-frw

gosuv said:


> The AK10 does work with older iDevices running iOS 7 with the CCK and the supplied USB cable. I have tried iPhone 4S, iPad2 and they all work fine. But you have to first turn on the power to the AK10 before connecting otherwise the device might complain and strange things can happen. I have run into an issue with the iPad2 that it froze and wouldn't respond to anything anymore. I have to wait until it shuts down itself and reboot. I guess that's why older devices with the old 30-pin connector isn't officially supported by the AK10.
> 
> If your iPad is the one with the Lightning connector, there is no reason to use a CCK. I have tried the iPod Touch 5G and the iPad mini w/Retina and both work without any problems with the supplied Lightning cable. All the iPads also aren't listed as officially supported, but I guess A&K just don't bother to list them on their site since they market it as hifi for your smart phones. Otherwise I see nothing why the iPod Touch 5G would behave any differently than the iPad mini.




Thanks for comment. I tested ak10 with iPad air and got this issue . For sure ak10 can works direct with own lightning cable , but I want to get ability to listen HD files. How I can do it without cck?


----------



## vkalia

kimvictor said:


> I guess for serious audiophiles, that might be good. But for bit more mainstream market, ak10 is already good enough.


 
  
 That's the thing - all these companies are making $1000 products geared at audiophiles, many of whom DO want a stacked sandwich to drive their headphone of choice.   It amazes me that no one has decided to just make a high-quality portable DAC + memory reader, freeing people to use their amp of choice.


----------



## kimvictor

vkalia said:


> That's the thing - all these companies are making $1000 products geared at audiophiles, many of whom DO want a stacked sandwich to drive their headphone of choice.   It amazes me that no one has decided to just make a high-quality portable DAC + memory reader, freeing people to use their amp of choice.


 
 Lol. You have no clue how many non-audiophiles might have purchased AK100. I mean, I've seen users in Korea buying the AK100 to pair them with beats. That being said, I think AK10 was meant to be for tech sabby people, not dead serious audiophiles.


----------



## vkalia

kimvictor said:


> Lol. You have no clue how many non-audiophiles might have purchased AK100. I mean, I've seen users in Korea buying the AK100 to pair them with beats. That being said, I think AK10 was meant to be for tech sabby people, not dead serious audiophiles.


 
  
 Ha, true dat, i suppose.
  
 Well, I am still on my quest, anyway


----------



## LFC_SL

vkalia said:


> That's the thing - all these companies are making $1000 products geared at audiophiles, many of whom DO want a stacked sandwich to drive their headphone of choice.   It amazes me that no one has decided to just make a high-quality portable DAC + memory reader, freeing people to use their amp of choice.


 
  
 Within the context of Head-Fi, iDevice dacs and their line-outs are pretty ubiquitous now. Cyperlabs in particular. The next evolution was always going to be losing the third stack and having quality built-in headphone amps
  
 Personally I think AK10 and Herus compete in different circles. I can see a case for owning a dac+amp stack alongside these small all-in-one devices


----------



## vkalia

lfc_sl said:


> Within the context of Head-Fi, iDevice dacs and their line-outs are pretty ubiquitous now. Cyperlabs in particular. The next evolution was always going to be losing the third stack and having quality built-in headphone amps


 
  
 Well, that can go 2 ways.     Audiphiles want control over their DAC and over their amp, but 3-slab stacks get a bit too much for most people.
  
 One way to lose the third stack would be to sell what is essentially a high-quality DAC, with a front-end interface/music player built in, to pair with the user's choice of amplification.    
  
 There are plenty of two-box all-in-one solutions (DAC + amps) as well as a three-box solution (CLAS + amp).   The only thing that seems to be missing to me is a two-box solution of a different type.
  
 Atleast, that's what it seems to me.


----------



## z3r0day

Could someone here compare this to the HRT Microstreamer, to be used with iPhone 5s?


----------



## z3r0day

Ordered on Amazon! Looking forward to test this with my UE900s before my Roxannes arrive


----------



## Philipperus

z3r0day said:


> Ordered on Amazon! Looking forward to test this with my UE900s before my Roxannes arrive


 
 doing the exact same thing... but it might take some time till the roxanne arrives...


----------



## nelkon

How would the iphone+AK10 compare to a stand alone player like a X3 or DX50 assuming the same source file?

A little wet bind the ears and in the market to boost my listening exp after getting the FAD IV


----------



## Berdugo

Hello there,
  
 I'm curious how this AK10 compares against the Pico DAC/AMP combo...

 Anyone got the chance to compare them ?


 Anyway I ordered one (AK10) and should receive it in a few days, I will post my impressions versus the AK100 that I sold recently (disappointed by the boring and recessed mid range).


----------



## Wilderbeast

wilderbeast said:


> I've had the AK10 for a couple of weeks now, driving my UE 900 and UM Miracle from an iPhone 5S. Will post a pic or two once I have site permission.
> 
> I do like the look and feel of the AK10. It's smaller and lighter than I'd expected and the controls work well. It's possible to nudge the volume up or down in much smaller steps than the 5S buttons allow, though the wheel gets stuck sometimes. I expect it will loosen over time.
> 
> ...


 
 A quick update on the above: I'm really enjoying this little DAC/amp now. After listening for several weeks it's hard to go back to listening through the iPhone 5S alone. The AK10 is warm, rich and has an incredible 3D quality (with UM Miracle) that I haven't heard before. It's a pleasure to listen to. 
  
 A few (very) minor gripes: There is a small amount of background noise and some occasional phone reception interference. The volume wheel sometimes gets stuck.
  
 On the whole I'm really pleased though. I would like to hear some more comparisons with the AK100 and AK120. If I could get a little more clarity I'd be interested in another upgrade. I'd certainly like to see the release of an Astell&Kern AK12


----------



## drgajet

I am considering purchasing this internationally. Does anyone know when it will be available in the US?


----------



## orcheung2002

I had the AK10 several weeks with my Android phone and enjoyed the lush sound. Only one problem is the original android connection cable of 0.8m too long and not a superior quality. Does anyone know any brand connection cable for this AK10. Thx.


----------



## Wolven777

Does any know if this is compatible with Ipod Touch 5g?


----------



## Wolven777

One more question - where can i order this in north america? Is it available ?


----------



## Berdugo

orcheung2002 said:


> I had the AK10 several weeks with my Android phone and enjoyed the lush sound. Only one problem is the original android connection cable of 0.8m too long and not a superior quality. Does anyone know any brand connection cable for this AK10. Thx.


 
 You mean the cable that is included with the AK10 ?

 I only know that there is one on ebay : http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Official-iriver-Astell-Kern-AK10-microUSB-10cm-for-Android-AK10-AKML01-/111230231684?pt=US_MP3_Player_Cases_Covers_Skins&hash=item19e5d6a484


----------



## drgajet

It is compatible with iPod 5g according to their web site but not available in North America yet. Will have to order from Japan or Korea as far as I can see.

Jim


----------



## DannyBai

I was able to get it via Amazon Japan using Tenso forwarding service and costing just under $300 total.


----------



## audionewbi

Good news the new firmware update not enables use to have 24/96 out using the onkyo app without the need of camera kit. 

Still no ipod nano 7G support iriver please make us all happy and enable that.


----------



## orcheung2002

Thanks Berduge. This solves the length issue but not improve the quality. Will purchase this if no other alternative.


----------



## Berdugo

orcheung2002 said:


> Thanks Berduge. This solves the length issue but not improve the quality. Will purchase this if no other alternative.


 
 Is the 0.8-meter android cable you mentionned the cable included with the AK10 ? Because I ordered an AK10 and the seller told me that an android cable was included, I asked him what type of cable but no answer yet.


----------



## audionewbi

No andiod cable was in mine unless they have upgraded their package.


----------



## georgelai57

It comes with 3 cables - Lightning, Android and a longer USB one for charging. The Android is probably an afterthought as it was bundled outside the box.


----------



## georgelai57

georgelai57 said:


> It comes with 3 cables - Lightning, Android and a longer USB one for charging. The Android is probably an afterthought as it was bundled outside the box.




I'm trying to get rid of my Android cable and will swop with any Android user. For an Apple Lightning one of course.


----------



## Berdugo

I finally received my AK10 this morning, plugged into my Galaxy S4 (the official iriver android cable was included). I previously owned an AK-100, which I did not like because of the recessed / boring mids and treble.
  
 I must say the AK10 sound is, compared to the stock S4 more detailed and "airy", with greater separation, the bass is really well defined and dynamic. But there is one important thing I don't like : the mids are boring, a bit recessed, a tad dry, not very smooth and "liquid". It is better than with the AK100 I think, but still not great. And this point is crucial for me, like a deal breaker.
 I could not compare the AK10 to the AK 120 since I never tested it. Compared to the AK100 however, the sound is better IMO.
  
 I will let my AK10 burn in a little, but I don't expect much improvement... I may very well sell it soon I think...


----------



## kimvictor

berdugo said:


> I finally received my AK10 this morning, plugged into my Galaxy S4 (the official iriver android cable was included). I previously owned an AK-100, which I did not like because of the recessed / boring mids and treble.
> 
> I must say the AK10 sound is, compared to the stock S4 more detailed and "airy", with greater separation, the bass is really well defined and dynamic. But there is one important thing I don't like : the mids are boring, a bit recessed, a tad dry, not very smooth and "liquid". It is better than with the AK100 I think, but still not great. And this point is crucial for me, like a deal breaker.
> I could not compare the AK10 to the AK 120 since I never tested it. Compared to the AK100 however, the sound is better IMO.
> ...


 
 Wait, mids of AK100 is boring? I though AK100 was praised for liquid and smooth sound. Whoa. You must like a really mid centric sound.


----------



## kimvictor

Oh, I will get a chance to try them real soon btw. I saw one on demo at a store today. Didn't feel like trying them today. However, I did try to AK120 with UERM, and it was real good.


----------



## Berdugo

kimvictor said:


> Wait, mids of AK100 is boring? I though AK100 was praised for liquid and smooth sound. Whoa. You must like a really mid centric sound.


 
 Not at all, I like a well-balanced sound, and the mids are as important as the rest of the spectrum, and to many people it's even the most important part.
 Beautiful voices are not enjoyable with the AK-100 IMHO. With the AK-10 it is a bit better but nah.

 I'm not the only one to say that about the AK100 by the way : http://www.audioexcursions.com/files/astell-and-kern-ak100-high-end-audio-player-review.html


----------



## audionewbi

the mids are there it is perhaps is masked away due to the warmer toanlity of the lower ends of the AK10. Cant say with burnin things have changed.


----------



## kimvictor

Hmm. OK. Let me hear the AK10. I'll report back in a day or two to see if I think the mids are better than my AK100.


----------



## vkalia

I just picked up an AK10 as well yesterday.
  
 Anyone using it with an external amp?   If so, how does it sound?
  
 Also, any tips on how to make a neat sandwich with it and an iPhone 5S?


----------



## audionewbi

vkalia said:


> I just picked up an AK10 as well yesterday.
> 
> Anyone using it with an external amp?   If so, how does it sound?
> 
> Also, any tips on how to make a neat sandwich with it and an iPhone 5S?


 

I hear distortion at high volumes (more than 90%). 
I like to use at as a source with my ipod touch. I set the volume around 80% to keep the signal out quiet. Obviously dont expect the line out to be as good as AK100 or AK120. Quiet a warm sounding source which can be pleasing. 
I recommend to have the latest firmware installed on AK10 and onkyo app installed *without any camera kit requirement*. You can get 24/96 out of and any iDevice which supports the onkyo app.


----------



## Dannumk6

Hi guys,

New member and need some suggestion on headphone more to clarity.

My gear,
5s, ak10, play songs using onkyo hd. 

Currently on rha m600 earphone and would like to try out headphone. 

Any suggestion? Tested sony mdr 1r mk2. Sounds great but a bit over budget.


----------



## audionewbi

How about  MDR-CD900ST?


----------



## Dannumk6

dont think i can get it here. i have choice of mdr 10r or mdr 1r mk2 if i go for sony


----------



## audionewbi

But didnt you say they are over your budget?


----------



## Dannumk6

Yup over budget. I mean the sony shop here only have mdr 10r and 1r. They don't carry cd900st model.


----------



## audionewbi

I never do my shopping from shops, I do online. That is the cheapest option.


----------



## vkalia

audionewbi said:


> I hear distortion at high volumes (more than 90%).
> I like to use at as a source with my ipod touch. I set the volume around 80% to keep the signal out quiet. Obviously dont expect the line out as good as AK100 or AK120. Quiet a warm sounding source which can be pleasing.
> I recommend to have the latest firmware installed on AK10 and onkyo app installed *without any camera kit requirement*. You can get 24/96 out of and modering iDevice which suppors onkyo app.


 
  
 Thanks for that.  I'll also check out the Onkyo app.


----------



## kimvictor

I'm probably gonna purchase one in few day. I'm sick of carrying AK100+amp or just my phone to power my UERM. I guess this is a good solution.


----------



## audionewbi

try it first if you can. Dont expect it to top that. I just bought mine hoping that one day it will support ipod nano 7G. I can live with that combo for on the go purpose for a long time. I am finding myself that when I go out I take the nano more than any other DAP I have. It is made for easy on the go music listening, it just one solid little gear that if it had 32 GB of internal space I think it would be very hard to beat.


----------



## vkalia

kimvictor said:


> I'm probably gonna purchase one in few day. I'm sick of carrying AK100+amp or just my phone to power my UERM. I guess this is a good solution.


 
  
 I dont think the amp section in this is particularly powerful either, TBH.    Quite frankly, I think this falls in a nether area, quality wise and it would be better to spend more and get a CLAS or other $500 MFi device with a *proper* amp.
  
 It's not a bad device per se and if all you want to use it with are IEMs, it will suffice.   But given that a little more gets you an ability to drive big headphones as well, I think this product only makes sense if someone values compact size uber alles.


----------



## Dannumk6

guys, is the lighting cable that comes with the ak10 easily replace? anyone know?


----------



## audionewbi

not quiet, dont think the DIY community will even bother with it.


----------



## kimvictor

vkalia said:


> I dont think the amp section in this is particularly powerful either, TBH.    Quite frankly, I think this falls in a nether area, quality wise and it would be better to spend more and get a CLAS or other $500 MFi device with a *proper* amp.
> 
> It's not a bad device per se and if all you want to use it with are IEMs, it will suffice.   But given that a little more gets you an ability to drive big headphones as well, I think this product only makes sense if someone values compact size uber alles.


 
 The thing is, I'm going to be using it only with iems. So not having enough power is fine. If I need more power, I can use UHA-6S.MKII.


----------



## kimvictor

OK. Just demoed the AK10 and tried to purchase it, but the audio store was out of stock. Anyways, my thoughts on AK10:
 Great size and form factor. I don't like the volume wheel, but I can deal with it. It's like a dream solution for portable rig. I hate carrying a extra DAP or a big amp with my phone. Also, my phone is a great music storage. But the power is indeed weak(it's powerful enough though. I powered a SRH1540 without much issue). Now, I'm just waiting for the store to call me back when they get some AK10 in stock.


----------



## audionewbi

I for one looking for the day where RWA is going to mod this, I do not mind carrying modestly size DAC around. It stacks rather nicely on top of MHd-Q7.


----------



## vkalia

audionewbi said:


> *I for one looking for the day where RWA is going to mod this*, I do not mind carrying modestly size DAC around. It stacks rather nicely on top of MHd-Q7.


 
  
 Mod it to do what?


----------



## wolfetan44

vkalia said:


> audionewbi said:
> 
> 
> > *I for one looking for the day where RWA is going to mod this*, I do not mind carrying modestly size DAC around. It stacks rather nicely on top of MHd-Q7.
> ...


 
 Sound better. RWA has modded both the AK100 and the AK120, next could be the AK10. What would be interesting is them modding the AKR01


----------



## orcheung2002

Guys, I found this is quite strange that the sound volume can be adjusted by both the phone and the AK10. As the AK10 with dac and amp sections, should the amp of the phone is by pass and only use the AK10 to adjust sound volume. Pls advise if you know the reason. Thx.


----------



## audionewbi

vkalia said:


> Mod it to do what?


 
 As wolftan44 said to make it sound better, true line out.


----------



## audionewbi

wolfetan44 said:


> Sound better. RWA has modded both the AK100 and the AK120, next could be the AK10. What would be interesting is them modding the AKR01


 
 They have just announced AKR02!


----------



## BillsonChang007

orcheung2002 said:


> Guys, I found this is quite strange that the sound volume can be adjusted by both the phone and the AK10. As the AK10 with dac and amp sections, should the amp of the phone is by pass and only use the AK10 to adjust sound volume. Pls advise if you know the reason. Thx.


 
  
 What phone are you using and how did you connect it? @.@


kimvictor said:


> OK. Just demoed the AK10 and tried to purchase it, but the audio store was out of stock. Anyways, my thoughts on AK10:
> Great size and form factor. I don't like the volume wheel, but I can deal with it. It's like a dream solution for portable rig. I hate carrying a extra DAP or a big amp with my phone. Also, my phone is a great music storage. But the power is indeed weak(it's powerful enough though. I powered a SRH1540 without much issue). Now, I'm just waiting for the store to call me back when they get some AK10 in stock.


 
 You bought the SRH1540? Congrats! How does it sound though?


----------



## orcheung2002

Just a sony mobile phone with android 4.1 and connected by the provided AK cable. I think this is not with the phone but the design of AK10. Think other users have the same issue.


----------



## wolfetan44

audionewbi said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > Sound better. RWA has modded both the AK100 and the AK120, next could be the AK10. What would be interesting is them modding the AKR01
> ...


 
 You have got to be frigging kidding me. Are you serious?! Well, this royally pisses me off. 
  
 EDIT: Let's hope its far out of my budget..


----------



## audionewbi

wolfetan44 said:


> You have got to be frigging kidding me. Are you serious?! Well, this royally pisses me off.
> 
> EDIT: Let's hope its far out of my budget..


 
 is your buget 1200 USD? 

 I for one will be far away from my wallet for a very long time. 
  
 PS: AK140 is due in CES2014 but it will not be out till probably June. I respect the impact AK has in our audio community but I just do not like their product release strategies from a consumer point of view.


----------



## kimvictor

billsonchang007 said:


> What phone are you using and how did you connect it? @.@
> You bought the SRH1540? Congrats! How does it sound though?



I wish. They had a srh1540 on demo, so i used them freely with ak10. Great audio store!


----------



## BillsonChang007

kimvictor said:


> I wish. They had a srh1540 on demo, so i used them freely with ak10. Great audio store!


 
 Where is the store?


----------



## kimvictor

billsonchang007 said:


> Where is the store?


Gangnam, Korea


----------



## BillsonChang007

kimvictor said:


> Gangnam, Korea


 
 Never knew Gangnam is a place @.@ and that reminds me of... OPPA GANGNAM STYLE...OP OP OP OP...


----------



## wolfetan44

audionewbi said:


> wolfetan44 said:
> 
> 
> > You have got to be frigging kidding me. Are you serious?! Well, this royally pisses me off.
> ...


 
 Are you sure its 1200? If so, wooooo!


----------



## vkalia

I did some initial listening tests with the AK10 and my iPhone 5S.   Headphones were Audio Technica AT-ESW9A.   Not the most high-end of cans, but this is what i listen to on the go, and where the AK10 kicks in.
  
 I initially listened to "Quarter Chicken Dark" from the Goat Rodeo Sessions - the stock 5S output actually felt a little more bassy, but it came at the cost of detail and timbre:  with the AK10, the string bass felt a lot more life-like.  The AK10 also extended the treble a little while keeping it smooth.  
  
 Next up was Erich Kunzel's bombastic performance of "Bolero" - here, with a lot of instruments going off, the difference was much more subtle. I think  lack of precise volume matching made it hard to say for sure as well.  
  
 Short summary:  there is a difference but only if someone is going to be listening critically.   For casual listening, the difference isnt huge.


----------



## Dannumk6

Portable music gear by dannygeni, on Flickr

Just bought my mdr-1r mk2 and at a price within my budget. Thanks to my friend working in sony . Complete my portable gear for now.


----------



## Dannumk6

Sorry double post


----------



## BillsonChang007

dannumk6 said:


> Portable music gear by dannygeni, on Flickr
> 
> Just bought my mdr-1r mk2 and at a price within my budget. Thanks to my friend working in sony . Complete my portable gear for now.


 
 Once you joined Head-Fi, your audio rig shall never be "complete" xD


----------



## Dannumk6

billsonchang007 said:


> Once you joined Head-Fi, your audio rig shall never be "complete" xD




Agreed, That's y I type in 'complete for now'. Lol. Surely i will upgrade in next few months


----------



## BillsonChang007

dannumk6 said:


> Agreed, That's y I type in 'complete for now'. Lol. Surely i will upgrade in next few months



Good luck and have fun xD


----------



## kimvictor

Whoa. AK10 is good. I bought them used with out the usb cable, but screw it. I have AK100 for computer use. At least I got the android otg cable for it. So far so good. Sound is a bit different from AK100 to be honest though. Don't know which is better. AK10 sounds bit more colored, which I don't mind too much.


----------



## kimvictor

AK100 vs AK10 review in a few weeks!


----------



## BillsonChang007

kimvictor said:


> AK100 vs AK10 review in a few weeks!


----------



## Berdugo

Has anyone got the chance to compare the AK10 to the iBasso D42,the Fiio E18, or the headamp pico dac/amp ? I'm a little bit lost right now...


----------



## kimvictor

berdugo said:


> Has anyone got the chance to compare the AK10 to the iBasso D42,the Fiio E18, or the headamp pico dac/amp ? I'm a little bit lost right now...


To confuse you a bit more, also look at leckerton uha-6s.mkii. Probably the best amp you can get for under $300. I own both ak10 and leckerton, and leckerton totally destroys the ak10 in all aspects(in terms of sound)


----------



## audionewbi

That bad?


----------



## kimvictor

Does anyone know where I can get a extra android AK10 cable? I snapped mine yesterday. ****.


----------



## Dannumk6

I need extra cable too.


----------



## georgelai57

I don't use my Android cable and perhaps could swop with someone's Lightning cable.


----------



## Berdugo

kimvictor said:


> To confuse you a bit more, also look at leckerton uha-6s.mkii. Probably the best amp you can get for under $300. I own both ak10 and leckerton, and leckerton totally destroys the ak10 in all aspects(in terms of sound)


 
 Thanks, I will consider that option.


----------



## pilgrim-frw

Does anyone know it will works or not? Will ak10 works with dsd converted to PCM by onkyo HF player without down sampling ( with CCK or without with last upgrade of firmware)?


----------



## kimvictor

I have a AK10 with lightening cable for sale for $180+pp+shipping
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/698113/major-clean-up-very-good-prices-hp-iem-source


----------



## rasmushorn

vkalia said:


> I dont think the amp section in this is particularly powerful either, TBH.    Quite frankly, I think this falls in a nether area, quality wise and it would be better to spend more and get a CLAS or other $500 MFi device with a *proper* amp.


 
  
 Did you - or anyone else - in here compare the AK10 with the new or old CLAS?


----------



## vkalia

Rasmus - I havent A/Bed it, unfortunately.   My CLAS -R/Conti V3 stack is for a totally different use case, so i dont really see the point of bothering with a comparison.
  
Quick q for other AK10 owners - can you remind me what cables/chargers came with it?   I can only find the Lighting cable and a USB cable, but the USB cable's other end is too thick to fit into the AK10 - which makes me wonder how I had charged it a couple of weeks ago.
  
 [Nevermind.  I was using the cable from a camera - I found the correct cable]


----------



## damifly

need extra cable too.


----------



## Berdugo

kimvictor said:


> To confuse you a bit more, also look at leckerton uha-6s.mkii. Probably the best amp you can get for under $300. I own both ak10 and leckerton, and leckerton totally destroys the ak10 in all aspects(in terms of sound)


 
 Could you give more details please ?
 Thanks


----------



## kimvictor

berdugo said:


> Could you give more details please ?
> Thanks


 
 Well, UHA-6S.MKII has more power, less hiss, more detail, better clarity, and more resolution. AK10 is great for a small portable thing, but isn't purely $300 worthy. I paid $200, so I think I had a great deal, but if you don't mind the portability, there are lot more options besides AK10.


----------



## kimvictor

Alright. I got my AK10 Micro USB cable. Now that I'm comparing AK10 and AK100, I can say few things.
 AK100 has much more power and overall impact. Much more layered.
 AK10 has fair sq for $200(i paid $200).
  
 Hmm. I still like my AK100 more. This evaluation was done using: GS3+AK10+MDR7550 and AK100+MDR7550. I feel like part of this could be due to my phone's lousy usb audio out. I would like to do more evaluation with iPhone, but that is for later.


----------



## kimvictor

For US buyers!
 http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/h
  
 WTH is this? iRiver gave me this link...


----------



## bixby

kimvictor said:


> For US buyers!
> http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/h
> 
> WTH is this? iRiver gave me this link...


 
 the link is bad takes you to a 404 error page
  
 is this what you wanted to communicate?
  
 http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/headphones-amps.html


----------



## kimvictor

bixby said:


> the link is bad takes you to a 404 error page
> 
> is this what you wanted to communicate?
> 
> http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/headphones-amps.html



Yup


----------



## maverick72

Hello all,
  
 Beyer Germany processed my card this morning for my a200p order.  I should have it in a week or so but since i never tested the ak10 i wont be able to compare the two but still should be able to provide pics/feedback.
  
 Will be hooked up to (iphone5/nexus5) and some hp's (beyer t5p and dt770, bose qc15, sennheiser pc360, shure se210).
  
 Great forum


----------



## kimvictor

maverick72 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Beyer Germany processed my card this morning for my a200p order.  I should have it in a week or so but since i never tested the ak10 i wont be able to compare the two but still should be able to provide pics/feedback.
> 
> ...


 
 Lol. I'm pretty sure that they are the same. When I asked iRiver USA for accessories for AK10, they told me to contact beyer, as they are the same.


----------



## 4umF

For those have played with AK10 how's the build quality ? And do they have a belt clip to put on this thing ?


----------



## kimvictor

4umf said:


> For those have played with AK10 how's the build quality ? And do they have a belt clip to put on this thing ?


 
 Build quality is nothing but solid. A well built device, as expected of iriver. And they do come with a case with a strap, so you can attach it to a belt. I do that sometimes.


----------



## james444

kimvictor said:


> Lol. I'm pretty sure that they are the same. When I asked iRiver USA for accessories for AK10, they told me to contact beyer, as they are the same.


 
  
 Hmm, according to German hifi forum, Beyerdynamic states the A200p's output impedance as 28 Ω. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also, EU buyers beware: the EU version of the A200p has only 150 mVrms and is only recommended for ≤ 32 Ω, whereas the US version has 1,7 Vrms and is recommended for ≤ 600 Ω (source: beyerdynamic.de).


----------



## 4umF

kimvictor said:


> Build quality is nothing but solid. A well built device, as expected of iriver. And they do come with a case with a strap, so you can attach it to a belt. I do that sometimes.




Thanks kimvictor, my father and I have been prospecting on this thing. Prob give it a run now. Will be my first iriver product so I'm siked.


----------



## maverick72

Just got mine from Beyer EU yesterday.  Construction is ... well .... German 
  
EU buyers must also be aware that there is the EU audio limiter (can be deactivated at each utilisation)
  
 As for SQ i can't say much atm since i'm testing it on a brand new pair (delivered also yesterday) of t5p's.  I can say through that with the audio limiter the sound is not loud enough to push the t5p into audio outerspace.  I'll test it further with my old DT770 pair.  See how it goes.


----------



## Berdugo

maverick72 said:


> Just got mine from Beyer EU yesterday.  Construction is ... well .... German
> 
> EU buyers must also be aware that there is the EU audio limiter (can be deactivated at each utilisation)
> 
> As for SQ i can't say much atm since i'm testing it on a brand new pair (delivered also yesterday) of t5p's.  I can say through that with the audio limiter the sound is not loud enough to push the t5p into audio outerspace.  I'll test it further with my old DT770 pair.  See how it goes.


 
 How do you deactivate it ?


----------



## maverick72

Hold the play/pause button for a few seconds (it resets it to zero) then you turn it up.  You will see the blue volume light blink red (which means your volume is higher than the recommended EU limit).


----------



## Berdugo

maverick72 said:


> Hold the play/pause button for a few seconds (it resets it to zero) then you turn it up.  You will see the blue volume light blink red (which means your volume is higher than the recommended EU limit).


 
 Ok thanks !


----------



## JonathanCandel

james444 said:


> Hmm, according to German hifi forum, Beyerdynamic states the A200p's output impedance as 28 Ω.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm bummer... sounds like this is a no go for the JH Roxanne...


----------



## vermilions

james444 said:


> Hmm, according to German hifi forum, Beyerdynamic states the A200p's output impedance as 28 Ω.
> 
> Also, EU buyers beware: the EU version of the A200p has only 150 mVrms and is only recommended for ≤ 32 Ω, whereas the US version has 1,7 Vrms and is recommended for ≤ 600 Ω (source: beyerdynamic.de).




Does this mean it couldn't drive something like the Mr speakers Mad Dogs? Thanks.


----------



## BillsonChang007

vermilions said:


> Does this mean it couldn't drive something like the Mr speakers Mad Dogs? Thanks.




Better off with full size amp for mad dogs IMO


----------



## vermilions

billsonchang007 said:


> Better off with full size amp for mad dogs IMO




Thanks so much for the quick reply. Would the leckerton uha 6s be considered a full size dac/amp? Cheers.


----------



## BillsonChang007

Something more powerful maybe?


----------



## vermilions

billsonchang007 said:


> Something more powerful maybe?




Sorry for being off topic. Last question, what specs should I be looking out for in an amp to make sure the Mad Dogs have enough power and not for iem to hiss? Thanks a lot


----------



## BillsonChang007

vermilions said:


> Sorry for being off topic. Last question, what specs should I be looking out for in an amp to make sure the Mad Dogs have enough power and not for iem to hiss? Thanks a lot




I am not sure what's Mad Dog's impedance but you want to make sure the amp' output power is as high as possible at that impedance. Something above 300mW~500mW should power the Mad Dogs well I believe


----------



## kimvictor

****. I don't have the USB cable and I can't use my AK10. I can't charge the AK10 via android or iphone. What!!!! Beyer hasn't been responding to my emails regarding a replacement cable.


----------



## BillsonChang007

kimvictor said:


> ****. I don't have the USB cable and I can't use my AK10. I can't charge the AK10 via android or iphone. What!!!! Beyer hasn't been responding to my emails regarding a replacement cable.




Took that* long for them? @.@ have you tried sending another email to them? I have heard companies who read messages from top to bottom not bottom to top. As in they read from most recent to oldest


----------



## kimvictor

billsonchang007 said:


> Took that* long for them? @.@ have you tried sending another email to them? I have heard companies who read messages from top to bottom not bottom to top. As in they read from most recent to oldest


 I sent another one yesterday, and that was my third email. I really hope they respond to this one.


----------



## BillsonChang007

kimvictor said:


> I sent another one yesterday, and that was my third email. I really hope they respond to this one.




Or maybe try PM them via FB message 

Good luck!
Billson


----------



## kimvictor

Nice job Beyer. Way to ignore my email 3 times. 3 times to beyer USA, 1 time to beyer germany. Whoa. They must hate me.


----------



## tan1415

Does this fit with a apple 3 gs?


----------



## georgelai57

tan1415 said:


> Does this fit with a apple 3 gs?



At the moment the cable is only for iPhones with Lighning connectors, in other words iPhone 5, 5S, 5C, though I read somewhere they are coming out with a 30-pin for iDevices like the 3GS.


----------



## GoSUV

You can use the USB cable, but you'll need the 30-pin USB Camera Connector from Apple, and you have to be running iOS 7 as well. I tried it with my iPhone 4S, and the iPad2, they work. But just be careful, power up the AK10 before you connect them up, otherwise your iDevice may freeze up.
  
 The Lightning connector also works with the iPad mini, as well as the iPod Touch 5th gen obviously.


----------



## georgelai57

Firmware update for Mac two weeks ago http://www.iriver.com/support/download_view.asp?dNum=1095


----------



## HiFiGuy528

kimvictor said:


> Nice job Beyer. Way to ignore my email 3 times. 3 times to beyer USA, 1 time to beyer germany. Whoa. They must hate me.



 


Was your unit brand new and sealed on both ends of the box? See my unboxing video. You have the Beyer version A200p right?


----------



## kimvictor

hifiguy528 said:


> kimvictor said:
> 
> 
> > Nice job Beyer. Way to ignore my email 3 times. 3 times to beyer USA, 1 time to beyer germany. Whoa. They must hate me.
> ...


 
 I got mine used, so I'm pissed at the seller, but what can I do. The seller is long away. I'm sure the USB cable was included at first. I'm just looking for a replacement.
 Beyer did contact me back, but I feel like it'd be easier to just get a replacement from iRiver when I'm in Korea.


----------



## georgelai57

W





georgelai57 said:


> Firmware update for Mac two weeks ago http://www.iriver.com/support/download_view.asp?dNum=1095


So I've done the update but I'm not sure how to take advantage of it using the Onkyo HF player on my iPhone 5S


----------



## georgelai57

georgelai57 said:


> W
> So I've done the update but I'm not sure how to take advantage of it using the Onkyo HF player on my iPhone 5S



Okay, after a bit more fiddling around my 44.1 KHz MP3 music files are up sampled to 48 KHz and the output on the Onkyo HF player app shows 96 KHz PCM. What does this mean? In plain English?


----------



## georgelai57




----------



## georgelai57

[/IMG]


----------



## georgelai57




----------



## ExpatinJapan

I find the last two photos very interesting.
  
 Does anyone have AK10 with FW1.10 and flacplayer app? ( iphone 5 or touch5G).
  
 We do the tests again to see whether AK10 has unlocked 24/96 playback natively.
  
 Although the above two photos seems fairly conclusive for the tiny DAC/amp.
  
 ______________________________________________________________
  
 also:
  


clieos said:


> Either it is because of the hardware (*USB receiver) limitation or the fact that anything beyond 24/96 needs USB Audio Class 2 driver that is not found on iDevice or most Android. Looking at the spec, I'll say the former is more likely. I'll be interested as long as iriver isn't following the trend of AK120 pricing. Well, that could be a long shot.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685406/iriver-ak10-for-iphones#post_9881702


----------



## puhn

I have updated AK10 to 1.10 and got the Flac Playet app on my iPhone 5s, I can confirm that the AK10 indeed output audio at 24/96 (tested by feeding the AK10's headphone out into PC's HD Audio line-in & record using Adobe Audition)


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Awesome. Can you post a screenshot please of flacplayer app showing 24/96!playback?
Thanks


----------



## puhn

Of course, here you are:


----------



## ExpatinJapan

Thanks. Awesome stuff guys!

You should post these shots in the Portable Rig photos thread.


----------



## rasmushorn

I would love to hear if anyone could compare the sound and performance of the AK10 (or Beyerdynamic A200p) with the sound of a Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo original+amp when playing from iPhone. 
  
 Would it be an upgrade to make a simpler setup with iPhone + AK10 and replace the CLAS+AMP or should I just keep what I have?


----------



## techmonstr

Hey guys, do you think this will work with the XPERIA Z2 thats coming out soon? It apparently supports all types of USB DACs out of the box. Also, how does this compare to the FiiO e18? Thanks!


----------



## orcheung2002

AK10 works well with all android phones with version 4.1 or above.


----------



## Earbones

How exactly is this firmware update supposed to be accomplished on a mac? I can't find a way to make it work...
  
 Instructions on the A & K website are as follows:
  
 1. Download the attached firmware tool.
 Okay, I did that...
  
 2. Decompress the file and check AK10 1.10 firmware and firmware tool are in same folder.
 Done and done...
  
 3. Double click window and then POP-up window is shown as below.
 Okay. But why are you capitalizing "pop"? Are things about to get screwy?
  
 4. Drag & Drop the app icon to the application folder for installation.
 Simple enough. But again, your weird capitalizations in the instructions give me a bad feeling this is about to go all wrong.
  
 (then there's a nifty little diagram of the standard mac file to app folders window)
  
 5. Power off the AK10 (Slide the power key to the left for 3 sec.) and check LED off.
 Okay. Done.
  
 6. Connect the AK10 to PC by USB cable with the RW & FF keys pressed together.
 Okay. Why is this in red? And the continued pigeon English is making my bad feeling a full on premonition of failure.
  
 7. Then, LED color gets purple. (Blue + Red lights)
 Ah jeez. That's not really a sentence, is it? Nevertheless, the LED is now purple.
  
 8. Execute the application downloaded and press start button.
 And here we go. Execute the application? What the hell does that mean? You already had me open it, all I should be able to do is press start. Except I can't, because it's grayed-out and un-clickable. It does give me the option to click a button titled "choose", so I do that and it opens my files. But anything pertinent to the AK10 firmware update is grayed-out and un-clickable. So there's really nothing I can do. And here's the total fail.
  
 9. Upgrade is done once "Bootload successful!!" message is shown.
 Once _the_ "Bootload successful!!" message is shown. There should be a _the_ in there. Since you've adopted a pseudo upper-crust British moniker to evoke feelings of luxury and sophistication, the least you could do is hire somebody who actually speaks English to write this thing. And maybe somebody else who actually knows how to write a firmware program that works, while you're at it.
  
 10. To check the upgraded version-
 Yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there, because I've read about all the bad English I can take, and nothing works. Boring. I'm bored. And my AK10 isn't updated. You kind of suck, Astell & Kern.


----------



## georgelai57

For step 8, where it says choose, go to the files you downloaded. If I recall correctly, there's one innocuous looking small file (I can't recall the file extension but it isn't a common type). Click on that and now you can continue. It took me two tries because the first time my AK10 hung and I couldn't even power off the AK10.


----------



## plakat

As I'm having troubles with my Beyerdynamic A200 variant of the AK10 (it works when connected to my Mac but does not when I try with an iPhone or iPad -- and I tried several different ones each): Did someone try to apply that A&K firmware update to the A200? Or did someone have problems connecting their AK10 to an iDevice and can suggest a solution?


----------



## Wilderbeast

Just some eye candy. The AK10 with iPhone 5S and UM Miracle. 
  
 Overall I like the AK10 - it's really small and light.
  
 My only gripe is the volume wheel, which looks great but doesn't work well. My fingers don't 'stick' to the wheel. I've put a small dot of blue tack on it so I can get some grip while adjusting the volume. I'm sure A&K could have simply made it from a different material.


----------



## georgelai57

I find the best way to handle the volume control is this. Place your thumb on it, do not press, and after a second or so, it seems to turn freely. I don't know if there is some kind of heat or static sensor underneath.


----------



## Wilderbeast

georgelai57 said:


> I find the best way to handle the volume control is this. Place your thumb on it, do not press, and after a second or so, it seems to turn freely. I don't know if there is some kind of heat or static sensor underneath.


 
  
 Hmm, that's interesting. I'll give that a go when I get home tonight. 
  
 They my have done that to prevent accidental volume change, which would be clever.


----------



## georgelai57

wilderbeast said:


> Hmm, that's interesting. I'll give that a go when I get home tonight.
> 
> They my have done that to prevent accidental volume change, which would be clever.



Indeed. 
Even with a volume lock it's good if the volume wheel doesn't straightway respond or else it could be dangerous.


----------



## Wilderbeast

Has anyone worked out how to use the AK10 with an iPod Classic yet?


----------



## plakat

I think they promised to offer a 30pin cable as an option... Did not investigate that as I only have Lightning-based devices.


----------



## Wilderbeast

plakat said:


> I think they promised to offer a 30pin cable as an option... Did not investigate that as I only have Lightning-based devices.


 
  
 ...as did I until my iPhone was stolen 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Now I have an iPod Classic and an AK10 that don't work together. I hope they bring out a cable soon.


----------



## kimvictor

So AK10 can't be charged through OTG?


----------



## Wilderbeast

I have a question for those more tech-savvy than me:
  
 As the AK10 bypasses the iPhone's internal DAC and amp, how am I able to change the sound by using the iPhone's equalizer? (I'm not even sure why I tried this, but there you are).
  
 If the digital information (the 1s and 0s) is passed from iPhone to AK10 via the lightening connector, surely using the iPhones eq shouldn't affect the sound? Am I misunderstanding the way the two work together?


----------



## plakat

I don't think the EQ the iPhone uses is an analog implementation, so it could modify the digital signal before it reaches the external DAC.


----------



## Wilderbeast

plakat said:


> I don't think the EQ the iPhone uses is an analog implementation, so it could modify the digital signal before it reaches the external DAC.


 
  
 That makes sense - thank you. Using the EQ sounded horrible.


----------



## willyvlyminck

It might feel robust but it isn´t,mine seems to be broken, the Android cable still works but no Sound of only a few seconds with my iPhone, and than the both phone and amp shut up, so according to someone at Beyerdynamic he says I Need a replacement cable, which will be no Problem, got this divice Little than two weeks.
 Hope some aftermarket cables will see the light of day.


----------



## kimvictor

willyvlyminck said:


> It might feel robust but it isn´t,mine seems to be broken, the Android cable still works but no Sound of only a few seconds with my iPhone, and than the both phone and amp shut up, so according to someone at Beyerdynamic he says I Need a replacement cable, which will be no Problem, got this divice Little than two weeks.
> Hope some aftermarket cables will see the light of day.


 
 The cable? No. Cables are not robust, but it's not really anyone's fault. The nature micro USB cable makes them really weak. I have not ever seen a robust micro usb cable, even after market ones. They bend super easily.


----------



## plakat

Interestingly I had problems with my iPhone cable, too. Just got my replacement cable, now everything is fine.
  
 After market cables? Guess not... the connector on the device looks... proprietary.


----------



## kimvictor

plakat said:


> Interestingly I had problems with my iPhone cable, too. Just got my replacement cable, now everything is fine.
> 
> After market cables? Guess not... the connector on the device looks... proprietary.


 
 I mean, you do place them in your pocket. They are no where near as durable as most 3.5mm cables. I guess no USB cables are.


----------



## plakat

Mine was dead on arrival, it never worked.


----------



## kimvictor

plakat said:


> Mine was dead on arrival, it never worked.


 
 Lol. That's sad to hear.
  
 TBH, my android cable broke after a week of use too. The second one is lasting longer though.


----------



## willyvlyminck

Latest update on this one, I was in my HiFi shop where I did buy the amp, we testet again on mine and another iPhone, same result, but also with new cable, so it was not the cable, but the Amp, but I did get immidiately a new one, and so the problem was solved. In this case I was happy to have bought the amp in a shop and not with mail-order. Price was the same, but the fast and friendly service you only have in a shop.


----------



## plakat

Yes, its often better to buy local, just in case you might need service. I bought directly at Beyerdynamic and while they were very helpful it took some time to get to the right person and to receive the replacement cable. Nevertheless good service.
  
 I was able to use the amp off my Mac, so chances were quite high that only the cable was defective.


----------



## willyvlyminck

Another update, having now be able to listen with my iPhone 5s, the results are less spectaculair than on my Samsung tablet. wich says a lot about the Sound Quality of the 5s, i think an underrated device by the high-end Brigade, but I think still the best souding phone out there.


----------



## BillsonChang007

willyvlyminck said:


> Another update, having now be able to listen with my iPhone 5s, the results are less spectaculair than on my Samsung tablet. wich says a lot about the Sound Quality of the 5s, i think an underrated device by the high-end Brigade, but I think still the best souding phone out there.


 
 I agree that the iPad and iPhone does have decent DAC and amp built in it


----------



## kimvictor

willyvlyminck said:


> Another update, having now be able to listen with my iPhone 5s, the results are less spectaculair than on my Samsung tablet. wich says a lot about the Sound Quality of the 5s, i think an underrated device by the high-end Brigade, but I think still the best souding phone out there.


 
 They do, and they are not underrated. People do regard them highly, and often compare them to actual DAPs. I also happen to think that they are at the level of entry level(100$) DAP, rivaling SQ of sansa and lower end walkman. That's pretty impressive for a phone.


----------



## puhn

A look inside,


----------



## plakat

Nice -- thanks for the photos!


----------



## SilverEars

I'm thinking about trying these out.  Will these provide SQ comparable to atleast AK120?


----------



## kimvictor

silverears said:


> I'm thinking about trying these out.  Will these provide SQ comparable to atleast AK120?


 
 No. More like AK100 mkii.


----------



## plakat

Beyerdynamic now has a 30pin cable for the A200p variant of the AK10, part number is 920.347
 that cable is compatible with iPhone up to 4s, iPod Touch up to Gen. 4, iPad up to Gen. 3
 According to Beyer it does not work with the iPod Nano or the iPad Mini however.


----------



## gerard14ph

Can this be used as a preamp? Or is there a preamp feature?


----------



## plakat

It only has a headphone output. I can't say whether that has enough juice to drive active speakers (for home use probably, professional +4dBu inputs won't be satisfied).


----------



## DrSheep

FYI, I think this is one of those pointless product / anime tie-in ever... the AK10 LoveLive! Edition
  
 http://p-bandai.jp/item/item-1000090785/
 http://www.iriver.jp/products/product_102.php
  

 Like the AK10 and love the anime, but come on...


----------



## plakat

Well, one can't argue over taste I guess... but to me its completely pointless. I don't even like anime


----------



## pilgrim-frw

der Gents,
 what do you think? Is there any difference between AK10 and Beyerdynamic?


----------



## willyvlyminck

pilgrim-frw said:


> der Gents,
> what do you think? Is there any difference between AK10 and Beyerdynamic?


 Only the brandname, but bypacked cables in Europe still have the AK label.


----------



## pilgrim-frw

Thanks for comment. 
And what about firmware? In European version of Beyerdynamic it is possible to dismiss volume limit to have possibility to use with heavy cans ~600ohm.


----------



## willyvlyminck

pilgrim-frw said:


> Thanks for comment.
> And what about firmware? In European version of Beyerdynamic it is possible to dismiss volume limit to have possibility to use with heavy cans ~600ohm.


 You can, If you want to use cans like Sennheiser 650. I use mostly in ears, the Grado GR10 and the Senn IE80, and in case of the latter I dismiss the volume limit because i like the grunt necessary for bass heavy music like Primus.


----------



## pilgrim-frw

And how a can dissmis if I have AK10 not beyerdynamic?


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## willyvlyminck

pilgrim-frw said:


> And how a can dissmis if I have AK10 not beyerdynamic?


 there are 3 little buttons on one side, all you have to do is pushing the middle one and hold a few seconds. Than you can turn the volume wheel as far as you like.


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## pilgrim-frw

Thanks for the advice, but this trick doesn't works for AK10, this is instruction for beyerdynamic. What I should do in case of AK10?


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## willyvlyminck

pilgrim-frw said:


> Thanks for the advice, but this trick doesn't works for AK10, this is instruction for beyerdynamic. What I should do in case of AK10?


 I thought they were authentic, if not , I hope people with an AK10 can help you further, will some research myself as this is rather strange


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## DannyBai

I just tried it with the AK10 and the red light is lit at max volume and pressing the middle button for a few seconds doesn't do anything.  I think you might be SOL when trying to drive 600ohm cans with this little thing.


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## plakat

The Non-EU version of the A200p does not have a volume limit... does the A&K 10 even have one?
  
 Disengaging the limit on the EU-A200p is a bit more complicated and involves disconnecting everything. Just looked it up:
 *) disconnect all cables
 *) power on the device
 *) lock the keys (i.e. power key in lock position)
 *) press the Play-button for about 5sec. Power-LED should flash purple and turn red. Volume limit is turned off now.
 *) Power off
 *) re-connect cables and power on device
  
 Same goes for re-enabling the limit (LED flashes purple and then blue in that case). Use on your own risk -- listening at high volumes can damage your hearing etc.
  
 Maybe you want to try that on your A&K 10?


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## pilgrim-frw

Thanks for advice . I did this. Unfortunately it doesn't works with AK10.


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## plakat

Sorry to hear that. I did not even know the A&K version actually has a limitation. Did you ask your retailer? What did the product description say? The A200p non-eu version explicitly states compatibility with high-impedance headphones up to 600Ohm while the eu-version talks about 32Ohm.
  
 Furthermore the limitation is said to be in effect only when connected to a smartphone. Did you try to connect the A&K to your computer?


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## andyph666

Has anyone tried the a200p or ak10 with the Roxannes? Wondering if i should pull the trigger. Thanks.


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## hearo

In case anyone is wondering, the AK10 works with the iPhone 6. It does sound lovely with my JH5 CIEM's 
  
 The A200P should work with the iPhone 6 too.
  
 In some testing with the JH5 straight out of the iPhone (Spotify, extreme quality mode) it was very transparent, detailed and sounded pretty good, however, the AK10 adds a fills in a good deal of body, decent thump and richness. Definitely worth it when considering the elegance on top of the sound quality- a really easy, quality, uncomplicated add-on to the iPhone.
  
 With that said, I haven't tried the E18 and would be curious about how a strap-on portable amp (e.g. E12) would fair.


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## kalrykh

hearo said:


> In case anyone is wondering, the AK10 works with the iPhone 6. It does sound lovely with my JH5 CIEM's
> 
> The A200P should work with the iPhone 6 too.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, the A200P works fine with the iPhone 6.
  
 However, when I put the A200P in bootloader mode, the firmware update software does not recognize it and therefore I cannot update the firmware.  I've tried this on mac and pc.  POS 
  
 I believe it does the job well, but it still feels like a cheap POS with a lousy designed volume wheel.


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## plakat

kalrykh said:


> (...) with a lousy designed volume wheel.


 
  
 Yes, the volume dial was not the best idea... very unfortunate design decision. There was something about form and function, but I don't remember the details


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## georgelai57

plakat said:


> Yes, the volume dial was not the best idea... very unfortunate design decision. There was something about form and function, but I don't remember the details


 

 I wonder if the volume dial was deliberate. Too easy to move and it could be disastrous on your ear drums. I found the best way is that you leave your finger there for a second or two and then it moves easily.


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## kalrykh

I read that either here or elsewhere as well, about holding your finger on it for a second and it turning more easily...tried it and only had success on hot days  I guess a little sweat gives some grip. Doesn't do a damn thing when it's cold though.


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## georgelai57

kalrykh said:


> I read that either here or elsewhere as well, about holding your finger on it for a second and it turning more easily...tried it and only had success on hot days  I guess a little sweat gives some grip. Doesn't do a damn thing when it's cold though.



Well I do live in the tropics.


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## kimvictor

I never use the dial. I just use my computer's own control(does the same as the dial) or my phone's own control. It works the same, and doesn't cause the hassle. I do think that it's a bit of a pain to turn the dial though.


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## kalrykh

...everything I've read says leave the computer volume at 100% to avoid issues.


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## kimvictor

kalrykh said:


> ...everything I've read says leave the computer volume at 100% to avoid issues.


 
 OK. That's normally the case, but I noticed that the volume wheel just changes my computer's volume. So it's the same. I've had tons of DACs. A&K is the only DAC that does this, and for me, setting the computer volume at 100% will blow my ears out. If i set my computer volume to 100 and turn down the dial, the computer volume would go down.
  
 There are other DACs(like dragonfly), I believe, use a similar volume control method. In this case, not having my computer volume to 100% will not affect anything. I'm really really sensitive to distortion, and AK10 doesn't distort, even with volume not set to max.


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## kalrykh

Ahh. It doesn't behave that way on mine. I get dramatic volume differences with just a little movement of the volume dial on the computer. Sounds like I'm double amping


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## Paulie651

This is the same amp as the Beyerdynamic A200p right?


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## willyvlyminck

paulie651 said:


> This is the same amp as the Beyerdynamic A200p right?


 Yes it is the same, in Europe the Dac is released under the Beyerdynamic banner


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## willyvlyminck

kalrykh said:


> ...everything I've read says leave the computer volume at 100% to avoid issues.


 I use it only on my iPhone, for pc i have another solution in the form of a Teac UD-H01.
I have a second generation AK10 with a little button on the wheel which make things go easy, but you can avoid and use your phone volume. The AK10 sounds wonderfull with my Philips Fidelio L2 in case some might be intrested


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## georgelai57

I've never had issues with the rotary volume dial. I did stick a small dimple on it once and promptly removed it. Being able to instantly change volumes is not an advantage.


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## georgelai57

Another way to adjust the volume dial is to throw away the leather case that comes with it. Ok put in a drawer then. Without the case put your finger to straddle both the dial and the plastic body. Then it's a piece of cake to adjust volumes.


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## Endeavour63

How does the DSD tab work on my AK240 ?  Cant see any music in there. How do i get it ? Any ideas ?
  
 Thanks  Endeavour


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## kimvictor

endeavour63 said:


> How does the DSD tab work on my AK240 ?  Cant see any music in there. How do i get it ? Any ideas ?
> 
> Thanks  Endeavour


 
 Lol. Wrong thread mate.


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## georgelai57

kimvictor said:


> Lol. Wrong thread mate.


 

 To be fair, many people do mistake my AK10 for an AK240


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## ardenpm

I have been shopping for an AK10 in Tokyo and interestingly it seems over the last week they have started to sell out in many places and the price has started to come down (price went down almost $40 on Amazon here in the last few days). One place I went to purchase it told me it was discontinued, though could be something lost int he translation. Since the price has dropped I will likely get one regardless but anyone else seen signs the AK10 may stop being made?
  
 Headphone amps are so mainstream here in Japan, all the big chain stores have decent high end gear, such a contrast to Australia where you need to order in almost everything.


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## willyvlyminck

ardenpm said:


> I have been shopping for an AK10 in Tokyo and interestingly it seems over the last week they have started to sell out in many places and the price has started to come down (price went down almost $40 on Amazon here in the last few days). One place I went to purchase it told me it was discontinued, though could be something lost int he translation. Since the price has dropped I will likely get one regardless but anyone else seen signs the AK10 may stop being made?
> Maybe an AK10 II is in the pipeline, and or sales did drop dramatically as the competion don't sleep. FiiO E17K II delivers the same at half the price to name just one.
> Headphone amps are so mainstream here in Japan, all the big chain stores have decent high end gear, such a contrast to Australia where you need to order in almost everything.


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## ardenpm

For me the reason to go with an AK10 is for native Lightning support and size (I need mine for flying), there are so few Apple MFi devices out there and most a toys. It's a real shame that FiiO don't get any response from Apple when they request MFi access, I would like a native Lightning FiiO product. It sounds like the MFi licensing is a real obstacle to companies like FiiO. In any case, I ordered an AK10, should have it tomorrow, fingers crossed it plays nice with everything else I have.


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## georgelai57

ardenpm said:


> For me the reason to go with an AK10 is for native Lightning support and size (I need mine for flying), there are so few Apple MFi devices out there and most a toys. It's a real shame that FiiO don't get any response from Apple when they request MFi access, I would like a native Lightning FiiO product. It sounds like the MFi licensing is a real obstacle to companies like FiiO. In any case, I ordered an AK10, should have it tomorrow, fingers crossed it plays nice with everything else I have.



Recently a retailer here in Singapore reduced the price from Singapore dollars 399 to 299. Check with them via their FB page - e1 Personal Audio.


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## ardenpm

Well my AK10 arrived today, seems to work well with my iPhone 6, iPad Air and Macbook Pro Retina and seems to drive my DT770 Pro (80ohm) well enough. I think for this things size (it's tiny) it would be hard to beat, particularly with the direct Lightning connection. Perfect for the plane and dragging place to place I think. Now that I pulled the trigger I am sure the new model will be announced on Monday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I don't find the LED indicators and power management particularly intuitive but probably just need to get used to it.


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## willyvlyminck

ardenpm said:


> Well my AK10 arrived today, seems to work well with my iPhone 6, iPad Air and Macbook Pro Retina and seems to drive my DT770 Pro (80ohm) well enough. I think for this things size (it's tiny) it would be hard to beat, particularly with the direct Lightning connection. Perfect for the plane and dragging place to place I think. Now that I pulled the trigger I am sure the new model will be announced on Monday :bigsmile_face:
> 
> I don't find the LED indicators and power management particularly intuitive but probably just need to get used to it.


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## willyvlyminck

Wonder what you will think of the sound? Yesterday I did a listening session with my Grado GR10 and Philips Fidelio L2 and as source my iPhone 5s , maybe I am deaf but I didn't notice any difference with or without the AK10.


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## ardenpm

I probably need to spend more time comparing however to my ear with the DT770/80's I need to push the volume pretty high with the standard jack and it sounds pretty stressed at that level, with the AK10 outputting about the same volume it doesn't sound like anything in the chain is really struggling too much. I am definitely no expert listener and I don't have a particularly critical ear. I don't really know how to describe it other than it feels to me light its easier for the headphones (and my ears) to listen at volume with the AK10.

 Haven't tried anything uncompressed yet, I just updated to the 1.1 firmware which mentioned it will enable 24/96 support (I didn't think MFi allowed it but it specifically says in the release notes it works with FLAC Player). I think the real test will be a 10 hour flight in a few weeks to see how an extended listening session goes.


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## plakat

willyvlyminck said:


> Wonder what you will think of the sound? Yesterday I did a listening session with my Grado GR10 and Philips Fidelio L2 and as source my iPhone 5s , maybe I am deaf but I didn't notice any difference with or without the AK10.


 

 There's one difference I appreciate: the A200p (I have the Beyerdynamic version) drives the Custom Studio with ease (after disabling the EU volume limit) while the iPhone on itself does not. But right now I'm once again reminded that it needs a proprietary cable... as I can't find mine to charge it. Thats really unfortunate... I don't quite understand why it does not use Micro-USB.


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## Letsgogo

Anyone can give a comparison btw ak10 and geekout?


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## thenoisyhwa

Just got my AK10! It was 84 Singapore dollars online, manage to catch a discount on the right day. = )
  
 Problem is, my computer isn't detecting it. Anyone know anything about how it connects to Windows 10?
  
 Edit: Got it working. Had to unplug and re-plug in multiple times, but the computer recognised it after a while.


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## willyvlyminck

thenoisyhwa said:


> Just got my AK10! It was 84 Singapore dollars online, manage to catch a discount on the right day. = )
> 
> Problem is, my computer isn't detecting it. Anyone know anything about how it connects to Windows 10?
> 
> Edit: Got it working. Had to unplug and re-plug in multiple times, but the computer recognised it after a while.


It doesn't, sorry to say even if cheap, it is a waste of money. If you have an lPhone you won't detect any changes in sound


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## thenoisyhwa

I did get it to work, though. Just took a couple more tries that I thought. 
  
 To be honest, I just wanted to get something that would sound better than my laptop, and cut out the really irritating hiss from my laptop's headphone out. And it does that, so happy with the purchase!


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