# Calling All "Vintage" Integrated/Receiver Owners



## moodyrn

This is a topic that doesn't get discussed much, but from my time here I've read posts of many people who own either vintage integraded amps or receivers. I know since they are vintaged it can be really hit or miss. But there are many who have had great results with these products. So I've created this thread for those owners to discuss the performance of their vintage gear and how they may compare to some of the current gear they have owned or listened to.


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## mrarroyo

Although I do not post much here anymore I saw this and ... I use a 1977 Marantz 2238B. Both as an speaker amp and headphone amp. Lastly I also drive the K1000 via the speaker outs as well as an Stax SRD7Pro. Lovely sound!
   
  BTW, this has been discussed before.


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## moodyrn

I've came across threads asking about vintaged gear, but I thought it would be a good idea to start a thread dedicated to vintaged gear owners. I have read a lot of good things on the 2238B on other forums. It seams to be a well sought after piece.


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## Stevebol

I like the older receivers. I have a Pioneer SX-750 and just got a Kenwood 5400. Pioneers are very clean sounding. The Kenwood is darker and some say not unlike an old Marantz. I never heard a modern receiver I liked but never really did a side by side comparison with the older 70's models. Old receivers are great. The one's that get top dollar, outside of the Marantz's are the one's with lots of watts. 30-50 watts by 1970's standards is quite loud. That's what makes the lesser-powered older receivers such a great buy.
  AudioKarma is a great site for info on all this.


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## moodyrn

I agree with you on watts. 30-50 watts on old receivers sounds very powerful compared to today's receivers power ratings(referring to stereo receivers only). There are very few that actually putting out their rated power. They are getting better, the receivers from the early 2000s were just garbage IMO. I have an old sony from the 70s rated at 37 wpc I think. Those 37 watts sound very powerful and gets my psb floorstanders plenty loud. There's just something about the sound of that receiver that sounds so different from modern gear. I wouldn't call it an audoiphile sound, it's just different. Whether it's a good or bad different is up to the listener. I love the sound of my fisher tube integrated. It's very lush sounding, and one of the more "musical" amps I've ever listened to.


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## Stevebol

The receiver wars in the 70's made for lot's of great gear.


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## SteveA

I used an Advent 300 for years.  I drove Grados and Sennheisers out of the headphone jack and Stax electrets out of the speaker outputs.  Great sound and an outstanding Tomlinson Holman phono section.
   
  Steve


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## Skylab

Well, moodyrn, like you, I am a big fan of the Fisher KX100 

I've been very tempted to pick up one of the vintage HH Scott tube integrateds that Mapleshade mods...


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## moodyrn

I thought of picking up a second amp as well, but over the past several months the prices have skyrocketed. Even ones needing a major overhaul is going for much more than I paid for mine which was brought up to spec. Maybe people like me have been calling too much attention to them. The vintage solid state integrated/receivers are still going for decent prices. I would love to listen to one of those, but I'm just so in love with tubes.


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## Skylab

Yeah, and that would be much more of a crapshoot...there was some REALLY bad solid state in the 70's, man...really bad. Whereas there were a lot of great stereo tube integrateds made.

One notable exception to the above is the Dynaco SCA-50. Pretty decent sounding SS integrated from the 70's, and highly moddable.


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## scompton

I'm listening to a normal bias Lambda out of an SRD-7 driven by a Realistic STA2200.  It's a beast of a mosfet amp from the 70s.  It weighs about 60 pounds and I made the mistake of having it delivered to work.  It sat in my office for 2 months before I managed to get it home.
   
  Vintage amps are very popular on the ortho thread.


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## moodyrn

Wow that is a beast. That must have one heck of a transformer inside.


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## article1

I'm new here, so I may be ignorant, but what constitutes "vintage"?  I have a Denon 2000 ivr integrated that weighs in at about 60 pounds.  No idea it if is "vintage," but I know it's not made any longer.  I think it's rated at 80 watts, but I've read that is extremely conservative.  I'm not that experienced, but I love the way this amp sounds pushing my Polk LSI9s, which are demanding.  This amp doesn't break a sweat driving these speakers to loud, clean volumes.  In terms of headphone performance, I have really enjoyed listening to my AKG 701 and Grado 225i through the integrated's headphone out.  I recently posted on this by asking whether forum members think I'd enjoy an upgrade if I used a dedicated headphone amp.


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## linuxid10t

The vintage integrated receiver I have is a Panasonic RA-6500.  It is a solid state receiver from the early seventies.  I believe 1972, but I could very well be wrong.  It is quite large and heavy, although, it does have a lot of fun switches and knobs   It may not be an integrated, but I have a Scott 559T tuner and a Sony Legato Linear TA-AX44.  I also have a MCS 3548 cassette deck (not that I have ever used it.)


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## RexAeterna

that's cause the amp section was masured correctly. most amps nowadays are only mesaured at 1khz@8ohms where amps from the 70's to early 90's are measured 20hz-20khz@1w into 8ohms and power doubles lower the impedance. also there is more to it then watts that delivers good performance. i have 2 sansui amps. a 1972 sansui 5000x 60wpc into 8ohms and 1980's Sansui Au-D7 amp rated at 80wpc into 8ohms and combination of class A/B amplifier but which of these slam my 2 sets of 200w technic 3-way floor speakers? the sansui 5000x. even tho rated at 20wpc less then my sansui au-d7 it can out muscle it behind the power amp section but both of them sound absolutely wonderful.


 i love the older Sansui's. lovely amps and can drive about any speaker on the planet no sweat. i never liked pioneer or marantz and honestly think they're over-rated and sell for rediculous prices nowadays. don't take my opinion serious tho. i love kenwood too myself. kenwood and sansui are my top picks when it comes to good sounding receivers. wattage has nothing to do with the sound of the receiver/amp.  i use all my vintage receivers with headphones as well. soon to get a pair of 600ohm akg's for them  from a local since i'm the only one he knows can sell it to and capable of driving them.  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I agree with you on watts. 30-50 watts on old receivers sounds very powerful compared to today's receivers power ratings(referring to stereo receivers only). There are very few that actually putting out their rated power. They are getting better, the receivers from the early 2000s were just garbage IMO. I have an old sony from the 70s rated at 37 wpc I think. Those 37 watts sound very powerful and gets my psb floorstanders plenty loud. There's just something about the sound of that receiver that sounds so different from modern gear. I wouldn't call it an audoiphile sound, it's just different. Whether it's a good or bad different is up to the listener. I love the sound of my fisher tube integrated. It's very lush sounding, and one of the more "musical" amps I've ever listened to.


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## RexAeterna

i love Radioshacks stuff from the 70's. they made really amazing items.  also build some back bone . my sansui's are huge with solid steel case and solid wood case on my other sanui easily weighing over 50lbs each. i use to carry them up and down the stairs in my house. man it was so much fun
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scompton said:


> I'm listening to a normal bias Lambda out of an SRD-7 driven by a Realistic STA2200.  It's a beast of a mosfet amp from the 70s.  It weighs about 60 pounds and I made the mistake of having it delivered to work.  It sat in my office for 2 months before I managed to get it home.
> 
> Vintage amps are very popular on the ortho thread.


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## scompton

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Wow that is a beast. That must have one heck of a transformer inside.


 


  And huge heat sinks.


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## linuxid10t

The Sony I have, half of the interior is heatsink...  XD
  
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scompton said:


> Quote:
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> 
> 
> ...


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## Philimon

I've used my Luxman R1050 (55wpc, known to have a warmer signature for an SS though not in a bad way) for ortho, Stax, and Grado. I bought mine for less than $100 about 2 years ago. I don't have to turn the volume knob much with my speakers which is kind of a shame since the Luxman has some cool LED DB meters that don't get a work out due to the efficiency of the TimeWindows (also vintage though not as old).
   
  As someone has already mentioned - Audiokarma.org is the equivalent of Head-Fi on all things vintage audio related.


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## wualta

How big _*are*_ those heat sinks, anyway? Here's the inside of the Realistic STA-2200:
   

   
_EDIT: Not my photo; it's from an online auction. Scompton's correct, it's barrel distortion in an undercorrected zoom causing the woozy curvature. Sure an' that tablecloth would've suited me sainted Eirish grandmoother just fine._


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## googleborg

i trust the amp isn't actually warped to death from intense heat and it's just the camera you're using


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## scompton

A little barrel distortion from a wide angle lens.  It does run warm, but the Shiit Asgard I bought recently runs warmer.  It's heavy enough that it's a pain to set up.  It doesn't slide to well.


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## moodyrn

I'm really digging that transformer. You don't see many like that anymore.


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## scompton

Especially labeled Realistic Quality


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## scottiebabie

i've just got into this vintage thangy not so long ago & am loving it. its sooo much fun discovering new "toys" on the cheap & they sound sweet. i've got a Sansui AU-666 (full woodie enclosure), AU-517 (love the dual transformer all the way down), another Sansui 4000 (receiver which sounds the sweetest on the HE5LE orthos), a semi monsta Sony STR-6800SD (2nd from TOTL in its time), a Marantz SR-6000SD receiver & and a baby Harman Kardon HK230a.
   
  all of which btw has great headphone outs & most betters any dedicated headamp i've heard (PPAv2, Zhaolu V2.0 discrete amp, LD II, D1, D10) & drives any headphone that i have include the aforementioned orthos & a set of AKG K240 Sextetts. the 'Sui 4000 drives my recabled Yuin PK1 like nothing else & in lower sound thresholds, may even rival an ex HD600 (though this is based on memory so take it for what its worth). just sayin my PK1 sounds huge with tremendous thunder & range - just not at large volume cos poor lil PK1 drivers start poppin/clickin as they reach max extension & then some.
   
  i dont think i'll ever spring for a dedicated headamp again given the quality of these vintage amps. O & by the by, most if not all of these amps feature full discrete components so valued & desired nowadays. nice
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  im still on the lookout for a vintage tube like a Fisher x-100 or a HH Scott or simlar to round out this splendid experiment to the dark side.


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## REB

I am something of a sansui nut and have two sansui integateds (another two died on me). A au505 and an au555a which needs to be repaired at the moment. I also have a sansui receiver coming, the g3000 (gorgeous looking animal with plenty of power: 40 watts per channel of real 70s watts). I'm hoping it will drive my headphones as well as I think it will drive my speakers!


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## james93

At the moment I have a Yamaha CR-1020, Marantz 2238B, Harman Kardon H/K 730 and 930 but the 930 needs some work and McIntosh C-38 matched up to a MC-2105.
   
  I just have Grado SR-60 and use the McIntosh and H/K 730 the most with them, both sound great....
   
  James


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## Skylab

This thread needs MORE PICS.  I absolutely love the look of vintage audio gear.  So I will repost one of my faves - this is my Fisher KX100.


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## googleborg

the way the phones are in the middle with the speaker off switch almost makes it look like it was made for headphones ^_^


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## mythless

I've became a fan of vintage gear, not just amplifiers/receivers but turntables and speakers as well.  Though, while they're great for speakers, I do find many have a terrible background noise with headphones.  I find it much more pleasing using the tape-out with my kicas out of my rotel amplifier.


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## Philimon

Not my pic, but I have the same one. LED db meters featured on this integrated are original equipment which made it kind of unique for the time. Luxman R1050:


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## RexAeterna

trust me that sansui will drive about any speaker on the planet. can even deliver large amounts of current for planer magnetic speakers and large voltage swings for electrostatic speakers as well. the power amp section on these old sansui were best of enginering in the 70's and 80's. i have only 2 sansui's.

    http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/RexAeterna/DSC00944.jpg


  the top is the 1980 sansui AU-D7 rated at 80wpc and uses a class A/B amplifier and i paid only 50 bucks for it from a local on craigslist. on the bottom is my favorite Sansui 5000x model. not sure exactly on what power amp circuit it uses but can out power my sansui au-d7 integrated amp even tho it's rated at only 60wpc@8ohms. i also had no trouble powering 4ohm piezoelectric tweeters from my dads old KLH bookshelf speakers and pair of 4ohm metal dome tweeters i installed in my technics sb-2845 floor speakers. best i ever heard from a dynamic tweeter in my oppinion. it can also drive 1/2w of power into 680ohms on the headphone out.

 i paid only 65 bucks for my sansui 5000x i found at local trading post cause the seller kept claiming the tuning section is broken but i easily fixed it. it was just hanged up. now they sell for crazy prices of 200 bucks or more i been seeing. hitting in marantz terriotry in prices. don't worry about speaker driving since these old sansui's will have more then enough muscle for most speakers. even sounds great on my 1970's pioneer 4-way floor speakers with tweeter horns.


  
  Quote: 





reb said:


> I am something of a sansui nut and have two sansui integateds (another two died on me). A au505 and an au555a which needs to be repaired at the moment. I also have a sansui receiver coming, the g3000 (gorgeous looking animal with plenty of power: 40 watts per channel of real 70s watts). I'm hoping it will drive my headphones as well as I think it will drive my speakers!


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## REB

That's a steal for those two amps! I've heard the au-d7 and it sounds sweet. Enough power to drive magnaplanars. I don't think I know the 5000x. Is it a receiver or an amp? Oh, just checked the picture. I know the series. And you've got a silver d7! Didn't know they existed. looking very good!
  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> trust me that sansui will drive about any speaker on the planet. can even deliver large amounts of current for planer magnetic speakers and large voltage swings for electrostatic speakers as well. the power amp section on these old sansui were best of enginering in the 70's and 80's. i have only 2 sansui's.
> 
> http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/RexAeterna/DSC00944.jpg
> 
> ...


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## REB

Very nice! I assume it's got the typical lush Luxman sound?
  
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philimon said:


> Not my pic, but I have the same one. LED db meters featured on this integrated are original equipment which made it kind of unique for the time. Luxman R1050:


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## Philimon

Quote: 





reb said:


> Very nice! I assume it's got the typical lush Luxman sound?


 

 Oh it sounded just perfect with my Lamdas. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am keeping an eye out for another Lamda/SRD7 since it is a perfect combo, especially in the price range (paid $65 for the receiver off a Craigslister).


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## RexAeterna

thanks! i didn't know if the silver version of the au-d7 was rare or not. all i knew sansui offered them at either black or silver at the time and was rated at 80wpc. i love them both but i love the classic look of my 5000x with it's solid real wood casing and it seems to me have much more torque behind the power amp section on how it can drive 4 200w technic speakers and pair of 100w pioneer cs-77a with horns effortlessly all at once and can run for hours and the heatsink just gets lukewarm and not hot at all where you can touch it without worrying of getting burned from hot steel(it has massive heatsink on the back outside the case)
  Quote: 





reb said:


> That's a steal for those two amps! I've heard the au-d7 and it sounds sweet. Enough power to drive magnaplanars. I don't think I know the 5000x. Is it a receiver or an amp? Oh, just checked the picture. I know the series. And you've got a silver d7! Didn't know they existed. looking very good!
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## evanolynuk

I have a 1979 Marantz PM 300.  For some reason I cant find any info on it.  I sounds fantastic with my laptop and udac as a source though into a pair of early 80's Koss Kossfire 110's.


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## RexAeterna

really nice looking amp. only thing i know is, it's around 40wpc@8ohms. that's about it. can ask around audiokarma for more info. i barely found anything online either and the hifiengine had no record of it at all either with any manuals or schematics. nothing on it but someone should know over in audiokarma cause one of them possibly owned one or serviced one and has knowledge of the system you want to know.
  
  Quote: 





evanolynuk said:


> I have a 1979 Marantz PM 300.  For some reason I cant find any info on it.  I sounds fantastic with my laptop and udac as a source though into a pair of early 80's Koss Kossfire 110's.


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## scompton

It's a nice looking amp


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## scottiebabie

thought i'll contribute with a snap of one of my prized receivers - a rare Sony STR-6800CD. outputs at a conservative 85w rms@8ohm & is built like a tank (prolly weighs 50lbs or so). it was 2nd TOTL in its heyday & is based on Sony's famed ES II series. i hear its a darling of the British audiophile community & its rarity adds to it i guess. O & pardon my lousy photographic skills


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## scottiebabie

& heres my Marantz SR-6000dc receiver. not quite as well built as the 22xx's but sweet sounding non the less. tuners exceptionally good sounding IMO. pulls in some great CBC classics for me


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## scottiebabie

& heres the headphone "station" beside the PC. the bottom black mess is the 'Sui AU-517 Integrated amp - my current fav. above it is the 'Sui 4000 & 'Sui 350 receivers both of which are very warm tubey sounding. i find the 4000 slightly tilted upwards on the upper mids while the 350 has the emphasis on lower mids. both sound very good with my cans with smooth as butta yet detailed being the chant.


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## scottiebabie

& lastly (do pardon the bad pic) a shot of teh "snake"! LOL its a 4pin XLR to amp speaker pins adapter cable i DIY'd to hookup the HE5-LE to the amps. not purty but im proud of it nonetheless


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## RexAeterna

heres some of my stuff. cleaning up and building my brother' rig at the same time.


    http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/RexAeterna/DSC00960.jpg


 From top to bottom:

 Kenwood KX-644w dual tape deck

 1976 Craig receiver

 1980 Sansui AU-D7 Integrated Amp

 1972 Sansui 5000x receiver


 not all of it. just most. i still have a kenood kr-720 receiver downstairs and a few other tape decks and cd players with some more speakers. also as you can see the signal meter light on my sansui 5000x is out but dosen't bother me. i'll get to it eventually. 



 @scottiebabie 


 amazing collection there. i'm totally jelous.


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## scottiebabie

@RexAeterna thxs bra u have some nice stuff too. im actively looking for the 5000x & perhaps one of Fisher's or HH Scott or even a Dynaco/Dynakit tube amps. i love the lush mids that allows me to listen for hours & its nice to have a few other SS amps/receivers to balance it all out when u want some slam & thunder. i just sold an awesome tuner, 'Sui TU-717, cos i found i dont do much radio & if i do, the receivers do a decent enuff job but this TU-717 is in another league ofcos.
   
  anyhoos may i present the belle of the ball - the 'Sui AU-666. it looks much finer live & the wood enclosure is gorgeous


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## REB

That is a beauty!
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> thought i'll contribute with a snap of one of my prized receivers - a rare Sony STR-6800CD. outputs at a conservative 85w rms@8ohm & is built like a tank (prolly weighs 50lbs or so). it was 2nd TOTL in its heyday & is based on Sony's famed ES II series. i hear its a darling of the British audiophile community & its rarity adds to it i guess. O & pardon my lousy photographic skills


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## RexAeterna

@ scottiebabie


 yea that sansui there is a sexy beast. i know what you mean when you say you have to see them in person to see their true beauty. i like to polish and clean my amps once a month so they be running for other 40 plus years no sweat. just my sony camera sucks at capturing accurate colors and makes everything a warmer picture.

 also once you get the 5000x you're going to be in for a surprise. not only is it very heavy and big but you be surprise how much torque it'll have and how lovely the sound is at the same time. i call it the beauty&beast. it sounds and looks absolutely beautiful  but give it some power hungry speakers and it'll show you how muscle under the hood it has. it'll be like owning  a 1969 Dodge Super charger of receivers. not sure how it compares directly to the 4000 but if you loved that,you'll defiantly love the 5000x.


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## REB

Great collection, scottiebabie! My newest purchase should be delivered today: sansui g301 receiver in pristine condition (or let's hope so!).


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## scottiebabie

thxs REB, i think the old receivers look gorgeous too. if im not incorrect a G-301 is european equivalent to our G-3000. the 'Sui G series is one of the most highly rated Sansui receivers culminating in the G-9000 or the later G-9500 & G-9900 but i believe the G-9500 is the best of the trio. i hope to own 1 of em these days.
   
  yaa RexAeterna my 'Sui 4000 looks puny but it is much more substantial than it looks so your 5000x must even be heavier. the X000 series & xx0 series are all tuned to have a "tube" sound whilst the later series are more cleaner & accurate. x17 & x19 are the muscle amps of Sansui. the innard of my AU-517 looks feels & weighs like its built to the standards of Krells & Levinsons. big dual trafos to separate psu boards to dual everything including dual big heatsinks! to build them like this now would cost multikilos.
   
  try to get ya hands on one of em x17 or x19 series & see how much control they have over speaker drivers. i hear & feel it even thru the headphone out. my lil Yuin PK1 pounds out bass like theres no tomorrow! granted PK1s dont do loud or low bass but thru the 517, they sound like fullsize cans & not just fullcans but gooood fullcans! as i said before, caveat with 3yr old memory being what it is, the lil PK1s driven by the 517s feel almost as substantial & full range as an ex HD600! albeit with lower vol restrictions & only losing out in ultimate extension & details but mang, these PK1s sound sick! i dont remember nor have heard them like this ever never!
   
  im now awaiting the arrival of a pair of hifiman HE5-LEs to put all these amps thru their pace & see which series & make is the ultimate! i have a feeling its btwn the cleaner but more muscular 517 and the sweeter smoother but softer 4000 or 350. it mite boil down to the type of music & perhaps synergy with particular cans.
   
  this vintage stuff is totally fun & seriously addicting, i cant stop wanting to own more! LOL


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## Skylab

LOVING the pics, guys!!!  Nice.  Keep them coming!  Vintage gear is so cool looking


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## RexAeterna

@scottiebaby

  i have to have luck finding a x17 or even x19 at a reasonabe price. they  go for major bucks locally and online.especially if the seller finds out how popular and sought after gear they are he'll diliberty jack it up to crazy prices(i see the au-717 selling as high as 500 bucks!).yea also the european versions were black faced instead of silver. i want to find a sansui g-771(euro version of the g-7700) myself.


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## REB

an au-717 in good state will easily set you back 800 euro or more. Vintage sansui amps are quite popular, I'm afraid...
   
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> @scottiebaby
> 
> i have to have luck finding a x17 or even x19 at a reasonabe price. they  go for major bucks locally and online.especially if the seller finds out how popular and sought after gear they are he'll diliberty jack it up to crazy prices(i see the au-717 selling as high as 500 bucks!).yea also the european versions were black faced instead of silver. i want to find a sansui g-771(euro version of the g-7700) myself.


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## Philimon

Nevermind. Found the answer.


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## googleborg

a sansui a717 been here for a while
   
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FREE-BONUS-Sansui-AU-717-Integrated-Amplifier-85-WATTS-/160541801789?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2561097d3d#ht_3314wt_1139
   
  paying 800 euros for that is _madness _


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## REB

My sansui g3000 (not g301! I was mistaken) arrived today. Well-packaged and in incredible condition. The potmeters felt like they were new and the whole thing looks like it came out the factory last week. The pic is not very good, but I'll try to make some more with daylight. I hooked it up to my computer audio set-up and it works beautifully. Absolutely hiss or hum free. The tuner is sensitive and works well. The sound is darkish, but I guess it is not a very good match with my wharfedale speaker, which are also a tad darkish. If I adjust the treble though the darkishness disappears. It sounds much better than it should and than I expected. I had somewhat high expectations, but this g3000 is just so powerful! I can't turn the volume knob past the 1 position without risking hearing damage. The sound is very pure, no wonder with all those old-fashioned rms watts behind it! The headphone out is also very good. Not as good as my headphone amps, but it comes very close. It's also darkish, but easily adjusted (seems somewhat more sensitive to adjustment than the speakers). It drives my powerhungry dt990s/600 ohm as if they're low impedance audio technica's! It also drives the k500 very well. The receiver has the signature warmish tube sound of sansui, loads of power and very good instrument separation. Just played some classical and it did that very well. I'm very happy with this new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!


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## CrazyRay

[size=12pt]Here is some of my gear.











[/size]


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## scompton

CrazyRay, great setup.  You must not be married.  My wife would scream bloody murder at your setup.  She's close to that with the little equipment I have.
   
  BTW, what's the rack that the Kenwoods and turntables are on?  What I currently have isn't working for me and I'm looking for something better.


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## CrazyRay

You are right scompton, I am not married.
  I bought the rack many years ago, I do not remember the name.
  Even if I had the name I doubt you would be able to find it anywhere.
  Ray


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## RexAeterna

@CrazyRay

 i'm loving your kenwoods and reel to reel player. wish i was able to find a good reel to reel player nearby but no luck. i also love kenwood. very under-rated brand and amps. the only time i remember kenwood got recognized was with their monsterous supreme series of receivers and even thoes go un-noticed compared to pioneer,marantz and sansui.


 @REB 

 that sansui looks in phenomal condition. who ever sold it packed it really really well. hope you enjoy it.


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## REB

Wow, CrazyRay, that's a wonderful set-up. Is the reel-to-reel player your main source?


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## CrazyRay

[size=12pt]Hi REB,
 My main source for headphones is a Meridian 506, and on the Kenwood (vinyl and tape)



[/size]


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## scottiebabie

Quote: 





reb said:


> an au-717 in good state will easily set you back 800 euro or more. Vintage sansui amps are quite popular, I'm afraid...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 Holy mother of Christ! 800euros for a AU-717??? Yikesss! think im gonna grab all the X17s i can, ship em over to EU & make a killin! what say u REB - u wanna go into the vintage amp biz wit me?? LOL. dont know if should say this incase u guys think im gloating but i paid $250 for teh AU-517...& TU-717 combo! & i thought that was high. i just sold the TU-717 tuner for $200 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  seriously i dont know whether to shed tears of sympathy for u europeans or laugh in joy at the ridiculously low (relatively) prices we pay here. not that i dont choke...cough...cough...at the prices i sometimes see. i almost tossed ma lunch the other day seeing someone ask $1800 for a Pioneer 1980 receiver on the local CL. incase u havta ask, the 1980's pioneer TOTL monsta receiver sporting 300w rms per channel weighing something like 80lbs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. things like twice da size of reg receivers - niceeee
   
  O & incase we think that big bucks, Sansui's equivalent G-33000 goes for $8-10k. its all bout braggin rights & yaa they are very prized collectables too. LOL
   
   
  O & CrazyRay, ya |Kenwood tuner amp combo looks ravishing in full woodie. mikey likey


----------



## Skylab

That is indeed a sweet rig, CrazyRay.  Kenwood made some GREAT gear back in the day.


----------



## REB

Hi Scottiebabie, great idea! Let's get rich dealing in vintage stereo equipment. good thing is, sansui stuff is easily changed from 110v to 220v. usually it's just a switch right on the back.
   
  No seriously, I don't know why sansui fetches these prices. Luxman (except for the really high-end stuff) is relatively cheaper. there's apparently still a mystique associated with sansui. That said, I totally understand it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Holy mother of Christ! 800euros for a AU-717??? Yikesss! think im gonna grab all the X17s i can, ship em over to EU & make a killin! what say u REB - u wanna go into the vintage amp biz wit me?? LOL. dont know if should say this incase u guys think im gloating but i paid $250 for teh AU-517...& TU-717 combo! & i thought that was high. i just sold the TU-717 tuner for $200
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Deep Funk

Interesting thread...


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is indeed a sweet rig, CrazyRay.  Kenwood made some GREAT gear back in the day.


 

 Thanks Skylab!


----------



## CrazyRay

> > O & CrazyRay, ya |Kenwood tuner amp combo looks ravishing in full woodie. mikey likey


 
   
   
  Hi scottiebabie,
  The wood combo is a Pioneer SA-8100 integrated amplifier with a Pioneer TX-8100 tuner.
  The Kenwood is this system, Kenwood KA-907 pre amp and Kenwood KT-917 Tuner.


----------



## Kassem

I've got a Marantz 1060, love it.  Don't use it much anymore other than for a cheap speaker set up in my other living room.  Used to use it with the HD600 and it was great.


----------



## REB

wonderful set-up! I'm jealous...
  
  Quote: 





crazyray said:


> > > O & CrazyRay, ya |Kenwood tuner amp combo looks ravishing in full woodie. mikey likey
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## vuntruong

I Sold The RSA amp because i find the vintage Kenwood 600 sounds wonderful. The KA 7300 Sounds great too.  and it is Cheap.  Easy to mod with fancy or cheap capacitors.


----------



## scompton

I have a non functioning KA 7100 that I really need to fix.


----------



## REB

Nice set-up! The power amp is also a kenwood?
  
  Quote: 





vuntruong said:


> I Sold The RSA amp because i find the vintage Kenwood 600 sounds wonderful. The KA 7300 Sounds great too.  and it is Cheap.  Easy to mod with fancy or cheap capacitors.


----------



## Deep Funk

Sansui AU-217 I and Pioneer SA-530 plus matching tuner (TX-530). I am only using the Sansui though...


----------



## scottiebabie

here's a coupla snaps of my AU-517 & TU-717 combo although the TU-717s sold & is awaiting pickup as the buyers from outta town. again pardon the lousy pic shots


----------



## Skylab

This is fast becoming of of my favorite threads on head-fi


----------



## BmWr75

Marantz 3800 preamp, 115B tuner, 510M amp (256 watts per channel)


----------



## vuntruong

WOW, Nice Marantz amp.  Blue on black VU meters are nice.


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





reb said:


> Nice set-up! The power amp is also a kenwood?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 The Power Amp is a Pioneer Spec 4.  I am using it to drive 12 inch woofer.  NIce sounding amp, very warm, and tube like.  Bass response is not as deep and nice as the kenwood.


----------



## RexAeterna

i do love kenwood myself. totally under-rated brand and always outside of the rader of vintage receivers and amps. i never saw a vintage kenwood power amp before but i do own a nice late 70's kenwood kr-720 receiver. even at 40wpc it sounds absolutely amazing and has very good push-pull control of the 12'' woofers in my 3-way technic floor speakers allowing for very accurate bass response. and how it handles high frequency extension is autonishing. i might take a pic later cause i'm letting my dad use it with pair of my 1970's pioneer cs-77a 4-way floor speakers.


----------



## scottiebabie

hey Rex how does your Kenwood KR-720 compare to the Sui 5000x? i've always wanted to take a dip in Kenwood waters but never quite found anything interesting 'cept perhap the KR-9050 monsta. LOL so give me a lowdown on sonic differences btwn the Kenny & the 'Sui. thxs


----------



## RexAeterna

i used my kenwood with my sansui for bi-amping my 2-way technic speakers. from what i remember the reason using my kenwood it gave a little more smoother midrange and highs and the clarity was better in the upper high frequencies and more controlled. my sansui sounded amazing as well and they sounded about almost the same but the thing that over lapped my kenwood was of course raw power and harder bass slam. if you want to get a pair of dual 5.5'' woofers to slam your lungs out and cause chest discomfort my 5000x is the one for the task. them together made the perfect match with my speakers untill i decided to give it to my dad. now i use my sansui au-d7 amp for my speakers.

 gives me that clairty in the highs and midrange my kenwood had while giving me that bass slam i want sometimes when i'm in the mood when i feel like turning up my super bass and bass knobs(that's right. it has a knob to boost 10hz frequencies aka ''super bass'')
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> hey Rex how does your Kenwood KR-720 compare to the Sui 5000x? i've always wanted to take a dip in Kenwood waters but never quite found anything interesting 'cept perhap the KR-9050 monsta. LOL so give me a lowdown on sonic differences btwn the Kenny & the 'Sui. thxs


----------



## Deep Funk

Quote:


skylab said:


> This is fast becoming of of my favorite threads on head-fi


 
  Once you get bitten by the vintage bug...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## googleborg

...your arms and legs will drop off


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I have been into vintage hifi basically my whole life! I was using 60's Dynaco tube gear when I was in college in the 80's. While most of my gear is pretty modern, I'm still a tubes-n-vinyl guy . But I have been so enamored with my Fisher, I am considering buying another tube integrated, like maybe a Scott.


----------



## moodyrn

I saw a Scott 222 go for a pretty good price on eBay recently. I almost pulled the trigger, but I didn't have any idea what it would have taken to bring it up to spec. Maybe I should have pulled the trigger anyway.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, thats the one that interests me, due to the tube complement and the headphone jack  . They do seem typically to not be cheap, though. Going to do some eBay watching for a while...


----------



## moodyrn

I recently scored a pair of klipsch epic cf-2 in a thrift store for 200.00. They aren't quite vintage(early 1990s), but those and my fisher are a match made in heaven. It's one of the most musical sounds I've ever heard. Since their efficiency is around 98, it takes very little on the volume knob to get these to ear blasting levels. The speakers, as big as they are, just disappear in my small 10x10ft office. It's really like being there. That whole set up only cost me 450.00. And I would put it up against any 10,000.00 two channel setup that I've listened to. Simply amazing.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> AYeah, thats the one that interests me, due to the tube complement and the headphone jack  . They do seem typically to not be cheap, though. Going to do some eBay watching for a while...





 



Well thanks Skylab. You just made me feel sick about not pulling the trigger. I think it went for about 200.00ish(lol).


----------



## Skylab

LOL! That seems like a good price, but it probably would have needed re-capping at a minimum. I have to buy mine where that has already been done, as I just don't have the time or patience to do my own repair work. Maybe when I retire


----------



## moodyrn

That's whats kept me from getting it. But at that price, it might have been worth it. Well only having the fisher isn't a bad consolation prize.


----------



## mythless

Lots of nice pieces I see and read.  A small piece of AK on Head-Fi lol.  Let's seem what do I have in terms of amplifiers.  HK PM660, Rotel RA-1312, and Pioneer SA-9500ii.  Got some other pieces that need to be fixed, most notable is a Canadian Amplifier - Audio Design 75wpc.  Also got tons of turntables and speakers to boot.  I'll see if I can get some pictures of my Rotel 
   
  I've been looking for some an entry tube amplifier, anyone have any suggestions?  I don't know if I want to dip into tubes just yet.


----------



## livewire

I have three dinasours that I have restored, all mid-fi stuff that sounds really good.
   
  A 1963 vintage Sansui 1000 tube receiver, 32 watts per channel.
   
  A 1974 vintage Marantz Model 2275 "Stereophonic" Receiver, ~75 watts per channel.
   
  A 1975 vintage Pioneer SX-1010 -  Heralded as "The first Monster Receiver", 100+ watts per channel.
   
  I usually push speakers with these, they all sound great with my K702's too.


----------



## scottiebabie

the Kennie has clarity in mids & highs while the 'Sui 5000x has bass slam...hmmmm...sounds (pardon teh pun
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) familar...DANG thats be da AU-517! LOL. seriously though, the 517/717 has mid/high clarity & has even more defined extended bass atleast compared to the 'Sui 4000. i like the 'Sui 4000/350 for its tube-like texture (softer & more mid-centric) for different headphones & genres. i must get ma hands on a Kennie to play with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i used my kenwood with my sansui for bi-amping my 2-way technic speakers. from what i remember the reason using my kenwood it gave a little more smoother midrange and highs and the clarity was better in the upper high frequencies and more controlled. my sansui sounded amazing as well and they sounded about almost the same but the thing that over lapped my kenwood was of course raw power and harder bass slam. if you want to get a pair of dual 5.5'' woofers to slam your lungs out and cause chest discomfort my 5000x is the one for the task. them together made the perfect match with my speakers untill i decided to give it to my dad. now i use my sansui au-d7 amp for my speakers.
> 
> gives me that clairty in the highs and midrange my kenwood had while giving me that bass slam i want sometimes when i'm in the mood when i feel like turning up my super bass and bass knobs(that's right. it has a knob to boost 10hz frequencies aka ''super bass'')
> 
> ...


----------



## betweentheears

Here's one of my "vintage unit's" . An early '70's Pioneer SX525


----------



## scottiebabie

Skylab i lubya Fisher X-100. been on teh lookout for ages but havnt spotted any yet. almost picked up a HH Scott LK48 though but i passed on it cos it wasnt in the best of condition & i didnt wanna own a tubey paperweight. let me repeat... i lubya woodie Fish...er X100. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



    

  


skylab said:


> Yeah, I have been into vintage hifi basically my whole life! I was using 60's Dynaco tube gear when I was in college in the 80's. While most of my gear is pretty modern, I'm still a tubes-n-vinyl guy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL! That seems like a good price, but it probably would have needed re-capping at a minimum. I have to buy mine where that has already been done, as I just don't have the time or patience to do my own repair work. Maybe when I retire


 


  By time you retire, your eye sight won't let you do it.  I'm already there, with the eye sight that is.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, that's a very nice case. I've been working on the case for mine. I'm in the middle of sanding it right now. I hope to have it completed sometime next week. I think I might sand and refinish my cf-2s also. I want them too match the finish of my fisher once I complete it.


----------



## betweentheears

" If it dosen't have wood, it's no good!"


----------



## moodyrn

Actually, I looks pretty good even without the case. Which is why I've been taking my time with it. Many owners never bothered with the case, but I do prefer the look of wood, it still looks pretty nice without the case. I'll post pics later.


----------



## Deep Funk

Do not forget massive metal parts and brushed fronts, I love the clean design of my simple Sansui. No plastic! Because of this thread I now want to hunt down the AU-517 so I should just leave this thread for a while...


----------



## moodyrn

Here's a couple of images of mine without the case. It does needs a little polishing, but I'm saving all of that for once I finish my case.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> Skylab i lubya Fisher X-100. been on teh lookout for ages but havnt spotted any yet. almost picked up a HH Scott LK48 though but i passed on it cos it wasnt in the best of condition & i didnt wanna own a tubey paperweight. let me repeat... i lubya woodie Fish...er X100.




LOL! Thanks man . I was actually looking at a sweet LK48 n Audiogon, but sadly that one has no headphone jack.




moodyrn said:


> Here's a couple of images of mine without the case. It does needs a little polishing, but I'm saving all of that for once I finish my case.





 
I forgot that yours was a X100C. I assume that means yours is actually a slightly later model than mine?


----------



## moodyrn

I did a lot of research before I got mine. There were 3(technically 4 if you count yours) version of the x100 seriers. The original x100 debuted in 1961. It used the el84/6bq5 output tubes, and outputed 18 wpc. It also didn't have the headphone jack. The x100b(which is what yours is essenitally) were made between late 1962 and early 1963. This is when they went with the more powerful 7868 output tube and power increased to 24 wpc. The x100c was made between late 1964 and early 1965. The date code on my is 1964. The kx100 is the same as the x100b. The "k" signifies kit. The kx100 is the x100b in kit form and was a diy instead of being put together in the factory. The the only difference in the x100b(kx100)  and the x100c is the front face. They are the same internally. There is on small difference between the x100b and the kx100. The KX100 lacks the bias adjustment pot the x100b has. It uses a fixed resistor instead.


----------



## REB

I almost bought both this amp and preamp a while ago, but I was narrowly outbid. How does it sound? It looks absolutely gorgeous.
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Marantz 3800 preamp, 115B tuner, 510M amp (256 watts per channel)


----------



## 00940

The HK A401 was a cutie. 20wpc of charming sound behind a demure look.
   

   
  I modded a pair (I replaced the preamp section for a more modern one and changed all the electrolytics) and I really loved them. I finally gave them away.


----------



## RexAeterna

not a good pic here but here's a quick pick of my kenwood kr-720 sitting on top of my sansui au-d7. 

    http://i882.photobucket.com/albums/ac26/RexAeterna/DSC00979.jpg


    gave it a nice polish and might put it up on craigslist or classifies here for possible trade of headphones. preferbly akg monitors hopefully(locally).


----------



## BmWr75

It is driving Dahlquist DQ-10s and sounds great.  Have some cases being built for the components right now.
  
  Quote: 





reb said:


> I almost bought both this amp and preamp a while ago, but I was narrowly outbid. How does it sound? It looks absolutely gorgeous.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> I did a lot of research before I got mine. There were 3(technically 4 if you count yours) version of the x100 seriers. The original x100 debuted in 1961. It used the el84/6bq5 output tubes, and outputed 18 wpc. It also didn't have the headphone jack. The x100b(which is what yours is essenitally) were made between late 1962 and early 1963. This is when they went with the more powerful 7868 output tube and power increased to 24 wpc. The x100c was made between late 1964 and early 1965. The date code on my is 1964. The kx100 is the same as the x100b. The "k" signifies kit. The kx100 is the x100b in kit form and was a diy instead of being put together in the factory. The the only difference in the x100b(kx100)  and the x100c is the front face. They are the same internally. There is on small difference between the x100b and the kx100. The KX100 lacks the bias adjustment pot the x100b has. It uses a fixed resistor instead.





 
That is very good information, thanks! I'm glad I have the one that doesn't require biasing


----------



## mralexosborn

Anyone have a Marantz 2220B? There is one in my area for $95, should I jump on it?


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> Anyone have a Marantz 2220B? There is one in my area for $95, should I jump on it?


 

 Check over on Audiokarma.  I'm sure the marantz folks over there can give u a much better insight.  along with street market value.


----------



## scottiebabie

the 22xx series are the best solid state receivers that Marantz made. that said, i believe the 2220 is at the bottom rung of the 22xx series sporting 20w a side @8ohms ofcos. though prices of Marantz have gone up lately (gee i wonder why with threads like this LOL), i still think that a tad high for that model. $50 would be fair value & anything more is to the eye of the beholder. also the condition would have a big say in the matter. if it were me, i'd rather pay more & have a fully functional mint unit than pay less & get stressed.
   
  if it were me & i really like it  & the condition is good, i'd prolly go as high as $70 tops. but thats just me. as always YMMV
   
  Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> Anyone have a Marantz 2220B? There is one in my area for $95, should I jump on it?


----------



## mralexosborn

This 2220B is in my area so I won't be paying for shipping. Is $95 a good price then?


----------



## mralexosborn

I just got a few picture of the 2220B. It is in near mint condition and has the wood "box". All the knobs are straight too! The only repair that is need it the front lamps. I will have to do some research on how to do this. I think I am going to pick it up later this week.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> This 2220B is in my area so I won't be paying for shipping. Is $95 a good price then?


 


  I would say that's fair for a 20wpc marrantz.  If you can get it lower than all the better.


----------



## mralexosborn

I shouldn't push my luck, evidently there already is some interest. Still a good price. I don't have speakers to go with it, what would you guys recommend in the sub-$200 used range?


----------



## scottiebabie

yo its a sad cold rainy day out here in the wetcoast so i went shoppin. guess wot daddy brought home.....(hint:its the unit on top  )
   

   


   
   
  yaaa its a baby (well maybe not so baby but more like a teeny bopper) Technics SA400 - my very 1st Technics of any vintage! havent had a chance to clean & deoxit all controls & switches (i find it could & often do effect the sound...by quite bit) so no conclusions as yet but listening to it now, its sounds very clean & flatter in the freq range compared with the 'Sui's atleast. but things mite change once its cleaned up though. 
   
  only fly in the ointment is a missing toggle knob for the TAPE-REC control but i picked it up for a song & perhaps a quick 2step dance. i believe the SA-400 is a 40watter rms@8ohms. for 25 big ones, guess i cant complain too much.


----------



## RexAeterna

for 95 bucks you can get a higher wpc kenwood,sansui,yamaha,hitachi or sony that will sound just as good or better then most marantz gear. it's a great receiver of frinkin course and probally decent price compare to how marantz sells nowadays. hell i saw a marantz 2270 on ebay sell for over 2000. bidding was crazy and most marantz out shine the famous monster pioneer sx1980 in price range and the pioneer is wimpy compared to the not well known Technics SA-1000 rated at 330wpc@8ohms which goes for far less than most marantz gear.

 just saying you can do better for 100 bucks.
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## RexAeterna

i like technic stuff lot. i never used there receivers or amps but i used tons of their vintage and new floor speakers and all i loved. 
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> yo its a sad cold rainy day out here in the wetcoast so i went shoppin. guess wot daddy brought home.....(hint:its the unit on top  )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mralexosborn

First one that popped up.
   
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/71217-rare_330_wpc_technics_sa1000__exceptional_condition
   
  That is a bit too much.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> for 25 big ones, guess i cant complain too much.





 


25bucks? WOW. Nice pick-up! What sort of place did you score that, may I ask?


----------



## scottiebabie

LOL no worries. i got it off the local CL. been spyin it for quite a while but apparently, there werent much bites on it plus the owner lives wayyyy out in the 'burbs (1/2hr drive from downtown but to us wetcoasters, thats the sticks! heh). over here yonder, Marantz & 'Suis are the big hitters. Kennies & Techies usually go under the radar & decent deals can be had. sides us Canucks are cheapskates...biggggtime! hehe. 
   
  i kinda wait a bit & circle da wagon a few times before goin fo the kill! ahahaha. seriously though, i have amps up da wazoo (& then some) so i havta luxury of walkin away til i find the "rite" deal. esp since in using them primarily as headamps, sonics is my main concern much rather than big wattage - though i wouldnt kick the big boys outta ma bed if they were to miraculously make me a housecall. heh
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> 25bucks? WOW. Nice pick-up! What sort of place did you score that, may I ask?


----------



## REB

I spent some quality time with my new vintage sansui g3000 and it isn't disappointing me. It's powerful, the tuner is great, sound is detailed and a tad darkish. The headphone out turns out to be very good. I plugged in my k500s and to my surprise it drives them almost on a par with the graham slee solo. Funny thing is, listening to the radio (antenna, not digital or cable) over the headphone out gives better sq than listening to lossless files through my dac. Not sure how that is possible, but I'm liking it.


----------



## Skylab

If you get good reception, and have a station that is putting something good out, the sound from FM can be astonishingly good.


----------



## REB

Yes, indeed. I am used to the reception being good around here and with the sansui tumers I have, but when I was listening through the k500s, the bass was astounding. Not the quantity, but the quality and texture. Soundstage is also very good, as is detail.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> If you get good reception, and have a station that is putting something good out, the sound from FM can be astonishingly good.


----------



## BmWr75

Technics SL-23, Pioneer TX-9100, SA-9100, SG-9800, CT-F9191, RT-707 driving Ohm Walsh 2s.


----------



## ejs811

Proud owner of a Sherwood 7200 with a set of ADC's.


----------



## linuxid10t

Consider my jaw dropped...  That is quite a stack, and on top of it you have a reel to reel!
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Technics SL-23, Pioneer TX-9100, SA-9100, SG-9500, CT-F9191, RT-707


----------



## scottiebabie

yup them be a fine lookin stack! vintage Pioneer rockssss....hell all vintage from the "Golden/Silver Era" rocks! i love em the retro looks & theres nothin like walkin into a room lit with a wall of vintage gear!


----------



## livewire

Nice stack!
  btw, the reel to reel is on the bottom


----------



## linuxid10t

livewire said:


> Nice stack!
> btw, the reel to reel is on the bottom




LOL I meant that in a different way... But... Whatever


----------



## moodyrn

LOL!!! If figured someone would get the wrong interpretation of that. But I think most of us knew what you meant.


----------



## Tomoyo

The only vintage amps I have are from my father which are the Denon PMA-750 and Audiolab 8000C.


----------



## Lazerboy2000

I just found a Pioneer SA-8500 on craigslist for $75. It looks to be in good condition and the owner says it all works. Is $75 a good price for this? I'd be using it with Jamo-E660 tower speakers 6ohm.
   
  It sure looks amazing!
  http://oldaudioarchives.com/images/p/Pioneer_SA-8500_classicaudio.jpg


----------



## RexAeterna

it sure does look pretty. i say go for it. 75 dollars is a great price if it does in fact all work without issues on all inputs and outputs.
  
  Quote: 





lazerboy2000 said:


> I just found a Pioneer SA-8500 on craigslist for $75. It looks to be in good condition and the owner says it all works. Is $75 a good price for this? I'd be using it with Jamo-E660 tower speakers 6ohm.
> 
> It sure looks amazing!
> http://oldaudioarchives.com/images/p/Pioneer_SA-8500_classicaudio.jpg


----------



## scottiebabie

if it were me, i've be all over it like bees to honey! LOL. these pioneer integrated have an awesome industrial look to them. IMO u wouldnt be over paying at $75 but cheaper is always best heh. O & a woodie case would truly be the icing on da cake for me. make sure it works, all knobs & switches are intact & all lights light up. when testing do a thorough check on all controls including tonal & balance. try & talk down the price if u find scratchiness or static noise when u turn the controls.
   
  make sure u give it a good dusting & cleaning with a good contact cleaner on all controls & switches. wait till its all dry & hook up ya speakers & fire her up. sit have a coffee (or smoke) & enjoy,
   
  ps:theres a SA-8500 & a SA-8500 II with the former touting 60w rms & 80w rms for the later. goodluck
  Quote: 





lazerboy2000 said:


> I just found a Pioneer SA-8500 on craigslist for $75. It looks to be in good condition and the owner says it all works. Is $75 a good price for this? I'd be using it with Jamo-E660 tower speakers 6ohm.
> 
> It sure looks amazing!
> http://oldaudioarchives.com/images/p/Pioneer_SA-8500_classicaudio.jpg


----------



## woob

I found a local Marantz 2245 receiver for sale for $150.  It is being sold by a local vintage audio shop and comes with a 30-day warranty (I assume it has been serviced).  Is this a good deal?  I'm fairly new to this whole vintage game.  I'll be using it for its phono stage and it will be powering Beyer 990/250s.
   
  Sorry, no pics, because the link on the website is broken, but the store is fairly reputable.


----------



## livewire

I checked fleabay completed auctions as a barometer on what these are fetching.
  $150 is reasonable if everything is indeed working & is in good cosmetic condition.
  (read previous post #135)
  The optional wood cabinet (if included) also adds value to your treasure.
  (and is also much easier on the eyes than the fake vinyl woodgrain over metal box.)
   
  They can be costly to have serviced. (new panel lights, clean scratchy controls and recap)
  I did this myself on my 2275 (pic on page 7, this thread). It was no walk in the park.
  A lot of exacting work to disassemble and put back together.
  There is a lot of useful info online regarding how to service these dinasours.


----------



## scottiebabie

yaa $150 doesnt seem that exorbitant  for a Marantz 2245 though i certainly wont pay that kinda dosh myself but if u like it & the units as advertized, its not a deal u can lose much on. Marantz 22xx have this warm analoguish sound that mite jive with your speakers. in any case, u can easily resell if it doesnt float ya boat.
   
  O & my Marantz SR-6000 powers my DT880-600 wonderfully. im sure your DT990 will sound great offa it too.


----------



## diodiel

oh i had this pioneer sx-780, it sounds great out of my infinity reference 2000.2 ^_^ i just wish it had a center and subwoofer input...
   
  btw... are there any good old receiver that has one "center/sub input"?


----------



## livewire

Back in the 1960's, consumer grade receivers were only mono or stereo.
  Then in the 1970's quad systems emerged for sale, one of the first being Marantz.
  I've read about one high end system used for soundstages (as in theaters)
  that utilized three front channels with a center channel but it was experimental at the time.(1973)
  True high-end "5.1" channel systems with center/sub speakers came out in 1987.
  It wasnt until the mid 1990's that they began to sell commercially at the retail level.
  So "old" is a relative term.
   
  I'm sure there is someone around here at HF that could add to this or correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## diodiel

hey you guys think you can help me pick a reciver? http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/539918/which-receivershould-i-get#post_7280446 in this thread? thanks a lot!


----------



## livewire

All of those prices listed sound great if the units work.
   
  What you need to do is study the specs of each, they are listed online.
   
  Check product reviews online as well.
   
  Check ebay auctions (open and closed) for what these sell for and
  general popularity or scarceness.
   
  When going to look at one, have them power it on with speakers to
  check functionality, check all controls, look for scratchiness, static, frozen controls.
  This can sometimes be hard to do if the owner has it stored outside in the garage in a box.
  If need be, bring your own speakers, cables and peripheral devices,
  and insist that it be hooked up and powered on before buying.
  You would not buy a car without taking a test drive, right?
   
  I looked into two of these that you had listed.
  I am no expert regarding these models you had picked.
  The Marantz seems to be an early 5.1 receiver, not high end and rather scarce.
  I would probably steer clear of it.
  On the other hand, the Kenwood VR-405 seems to be well built,
  popular in it's time, has a good set of control functions, is powerful and reliable.
  With 400 watts total output (80W X 5 CH), I would not stack anything on top.
  That well ventilated case top needs to breathe. That is, let out the heat.
  It also normally sells for quite a bit more than the price you listed.
   
  Do your homework grasshopper.
  It is you that will need to live with (and hopefully enjoy) your choice.


----------



## livewire

Duplicate post due to system crash.


----------



## HeatFan12

Caught your thread moodyrn a few days back and remembered I had a Yamaha receiver in storage.  Not exactly vintage but I purchased it in the '90s.  Took it out of storage today to fire it up.  I forgot it had a headphone out that I have never used.  Opened the hood, everything seemed in order and cranked her up with a PCDP and my KSC75s that were close by.  The head-out is damn good indeed.  I'm trying several phones with it now.
   
   
  EDIT:  The heck with this...lol.....Brought it up to my main listening station where I paired it with a Sony CDP-CE335 that IIRC, I purchased it along with it....It sounds awesome through the headphone out.  Ultrasones rockin' atm...Beyers and Senns are next...Good times....What am I going to do with all my headphone amps.....lol...
   
  Cheers..
   





   
   
  Yamaha RX-460


----------



## scottiebabie

hey Heatfan dont know what others think but i lov it! nothings can be overdone if it means moar juice moar power moar tunes! LOL. seriously though, im sure the lil K75s sound great off the yami. if i IIRC K75s do need quite a bit of juice to sound good. niceeeee


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> hey Heatfan dont know what others think but i lov it! nothings can be overdone if it means moar juice moar power moar tunes! LOL. seriously though, im sure the lil K75s sound great off the yami. if i IIRC K75s do need quite a bit of juice to sound good. niceeeee


 

 I'm loving it scottie...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just hooked up my ipod dock via its aux and it is sounding damn good.  The Yami also has a 75ohm BNC looking plug that says unbalanced.  Do you know what that is for?...Just trying to maximize my new found friend...lol...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





heatfan12 said:


> I'm loving it scottie...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  yo Heatfan bro tat be a niceee lookin pod dock! is it one them iMod woodie cap docks perchance? as for them unbalanced BNC inputs, its one of funny input jacks for them unbalanced europeans. LOL. seriously though, i bliv unbalanced input is for unbalanced sources (which is 99.9% of most home hifi) & BNC is equivalent to our RCA input jacks. do correct me if im wrong though


----------



## HeatFan12

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> yo Heatfan bro tat be a niceee lookin pod dock! is it one them iMod woodie cap docks perchance? as for them unbalanced BNC inputs, its one of funny input jacks for them unbalanced europeans. LOL. seriously though, i bliv unbalanced input is for unbalanced sources (which is 99.9% of most home hifi) & BNC is equivalent to our RCA input jacks. do correct me if im wrong though


 


 Thanks scottie...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's an ALO Audio ipod dock (analog).  It has a mini & RCA out and charges the ipod as well.  Purchased it a few years back....
  Thanks for the info...
   
  Cheers


----------



## moodyrn

I'm glad to hear that you are have good results with something that's been forgotten about. Sometimes I think we go overboard with headphone amps without trying something we might already have first. Now don't get me wrong, headphone amps are more of a sure thing. Vintage gear can really be hit or miss. But there are some gems out there.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I'm glad to hear that you are have good results with something that's been forgotten about. Sometimes I think we go overboard with headphone amps without trying something we might already have first. Now don't get me wrong, headphone amps are more of a sure thing. Vintage gear can really be hit or miss. But there are some gems out there.


 


  i've had a lot hits than misses. i found the trick is to drive hi Z cans with em vintage amps. FWIW the only cans i've found that sounded worst thru them headouts are the low Z BA iems UE TF10pros & klispch X5. all others sounded great.


----------



## REB

I've had an equal share of misses as well. THe sansui au4900 turned out to be very average in turns of headphone amplification and the vintage rotel set I had (I forget which set precisely: late seventies) wasn't particularly impressive either in that regard.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i've had a lot hits than misses. i found the trick is to drive hi Z cans with em vintage amps. FWIW the only cans i've found that sounded worst thru them headouts are the low Z BA iems UE TF10pros & klispch X5. all others sounded great.


----------



## pp312

You need to use well-designed amps to start with and the idea that all vintage amps are gold is ridiculous. I was around when these amps came out and the Sansui au4900 was neither well thought of or well reviewed at the time. As for Rotel, it's often forgotten that Rotel was a crap brand in the 70s and only began to be legitimized when it tried to follow NADs lead. Forget Rotel until about the mid-80s.


----------



## Skylab

No doubt about that.  The reason that tube amps remained popular with a lot of audiophiles is that many early solid state amps sounded absolutely HORRID.  I mean peel-the-paint horrid. 
   
  But you can score vintage amps for crazy cheap, too.  I just bought a 70's Kenwood integrated for $50.  You can't buy interconnects for that price!  It's in beautiful shape too.  Looking forward to testing it out.  If it's awful, who cares?


----------



## REB

You are right. But it's not always easy to tell the crap from the gold. Earlier (and later) Sansui amps comparable to the 4900 in terms of wattage etc. were worth it. And a well-designed integrated amp does not necessarily have a good headphone out of course.
  
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> You need to use well-designed amps to start with and the idea that all vintage amps are gold is ridiculous. I was around when these amps came out and the Sansui au4900 was neither well thought of or well reviewed at the time. As for Rotel, it's often forgotten that Rotel was a crap brand in the 70s and only began to be legitimized when it tried to follow NADs lead. Forget Rotel until about the mid-80s.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





reb said:


> You are right. But it's not always easy to tell the crap from the gold. Earlier (and later) Sansui amps comparable to the 4900 in terms of wattage etc. were worth it. And a well-designed integrated amp does not necessarily have a good headphone out of course.


 

 I think headphones were an after thought.  I've only found lower powered amplifiers to have the best headphone out.  But, it's all about design and the overall impedance/sensitivity of your headphones.  I wouldn't dismiss Rotel too quickly, having been inside of my RA-1312, it's a well build amplifier, wasn't TOTL but it was second to the top.  Same with the SA-9500ii and Audio Design.
   
  With the age of information, it's very easy to know what's gold and what's not.  Prices are one factor but finding information on especially known makers are pretty easy, it's those esoteric ones that are hard and whether or not they're worth the cash. 
   
  Being an owner of the Bottlehead Sex amplifier, I can see why many people love tube, it has to be the most smoothest sounding amplifier I've owned, and can power some of my vintage speakers too.  Need to see if I can find me a Fisher tube amplifier or even an older Trio.  However, I've also heard tube amps that didn't sound good either especially when matched with classical music.
   
  Speaking of quadraphonic.  I've actually come across an amplifier that actually has a subwoofer or center channel output connector, making it almost a 4.1 sound and I think the amplifier was made either in the early or mid 70s.


----------



## diodiel

hey guys! im just wondering what would happen if i plug in a 3.1 setup into a 5.1 receiver? would i lose sound? or all 5.1 receiver can transform their function into 3.1? thanks!!


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





diodiel said:


> hey guys! im just wondering what would happen if i plug in a 3.1 setup into a 5.1 receiver? would i lose sound? or all 5.1 receiver can transform their function into 3.1? thanks!!


 


  I dont really understand your questions.   5.1 channel are use when one is watching movies or 5.1 music source. When playing CDs, MP3.  you only have 2 channel audio signal.


----------



## diodiel

ohhhh cuz i have 2 bookshelf, 1center and a subwoofer but im getting a 5.1 receiver.. i hope im making sense


----------



## scompton

Most 5.1 amps allow you to turn off specific channels so you can do 2.1, 3.1, 4.1, 5.1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.  Not sure why you're asking this in a thread about vintage stereo receivers though.


----------



## diodiel

oh sorry about that but thanks! sorry to ruin the thread but this seemed like an active one mostly likely to get a faster response like just what you did , thanks!


----------



## CrazyRay

[size=12pt]Apology not excepted. [/size]


----------



## RexAeterna

@mythless

 headphone outs on these older amps were never an afterthought really. music listening was much more cherished and cared for during the 70's and 80's untill the HT became mainstream. they just ensured that headphones don't fry by putting a dropping resistor for both the left and right channel between the power amp section and headphone out. these older amps have more then enough juice to power about any headphone you stick in the the headphone socket.

 like i explain before this whole impedance matching is kinda far fetched cause impedance always varies with frequencies and the push-pull design of these amps can handle the mutiple loads of voltage and current fine. the engineers knew this. headphones don't require much power at all when it comes to dynamic drivers compared to speakers so it doesn't take much for these amps to drive a 300-600ohm load no problem. speaker and headphone impedance are completely different. most speaker might be 8ohm avg in certain frequencies but require much more push-pull load than a 600ohm headphone. planer magnetic headphones uses a much more powerful magnet design compared to dynamic drivers so it's okay to plug them directly to speaker outputs without frying. electrostatics same thing. way they're design is to take large amounts of voltage as speakers do. that's why they are refered to as ''earspeakers''


 volume level has to do how many w/mw can be driven into that specific load and due to how senstive the speaker or headphone is in db at 1w/mw. most dropping resistors are from 1/2w-2w into whatever resistor value(220-680ohm) and so forth. you can take the resistors out for full force of the power amp but goodluck with that cause even a pair of 600ohm beyerdynamic T1 will say bye-bye to it's drivers due to massive amount of voltage driven from the power amp section but most of all it's a matter of preference. there is no right or wrong when it comes to music listening. everyone is different and must be respected for their own personal taste and opinions. i respect your opinion and i'm fine with it.


----------



## REB

wth?
  
  Quote: 





diodiel said:


> oh sorry about that but thanks! sorry to ruin the thread but this seemed like an active one mostly likely to get a faster response like just what you did , thanks!


----------



## REB

@rexaeterna: could you give me a rough idea how your d7 sounds compared to your sansui receiver? I've never heard the d7/9/11 and am very curious as to how they sound. Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> @mythless
> 
> headphone outs on these older amps were never an afterthought really. music listening was much more cherished and cared for during the 70's and 80's untill the HT became mainstream. they just ensured that headphones don't fry by putting a dropping resistor for both the left and right channel between the power amp section and headphone out. these older amps have more then enough juice to power about any headphone you stick in the the headphone socket.
> 
> ...


----------



## diodiel

just joking lol but im still sorry


----------



## REB

Go say 150 Hail Sansui's and you're forgiven.
   
  Quote: 





diodiel said:


> just joking lol but im still sorry


----------



## mralexosborn

Picking up my 2220B tomorrow. It is way older than I am!


----------



## REB

Welcome to Team My Gear is Older Than Me!
  
  Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> Picking up my 2220B tomorrow. It is way older than I am!


----------



## mralexosborn

Thanks!
   
  What pair of high efficiency speakers can I get for under $150? I may build a pair myself if I don't find anything. Also this will be powered by the aforementioned 2220B.


----------



## REB

Eltax monitor III. They are incredibly good for the money and very sensitive (sensitive enough to run with a small t-amp and still get enough volume).
  Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> Thanks!
> 
> What pair of high efficiency speakers can I get for under $150? I may build a pair myself if I don't find anything. Also this will be powered by the aforementioned 2220B.


----------



## mralexosborn

There are a pair of Advent Legacy's in my area for $45. Is it worth it?


----------



## BmWr75

If the Legacy's have been refoamed and recapped, $45 is a deal.  If not, no deal.


----------



## scottiebabie

hey Rex dont fret it, impedance impudance if it sounds good to your ears, that what counts. btw one can power any headphones directly of home amp speaker taps even if the amps rated at 1000w rms. only issue is u woudnt have much if any volume headroom to play with - a case of all or nothing if i ever heard (pardon da pun) one. ofcos if u crank it up im sure driver coils wont be the only things gettin blown 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  btw before we pan our vintage amps, have we ever wondered that its....well vintage? most are 30-40yrs old & then some. besides wear & tear, there are other factors such as corrosion, solder oxidation, cap leakage, etc etc that can & will affect sonics. unless one has done a full refurb or a service + cap/resistor replacement, i'll venture to say that alot of the amps arent sounding optimal or atleast not as when it was new - jus sayin.
   
  have we also wondered that the headouts of these amps were designed in the era of when headphone were mainly 300-600ohms? indeed studio cans were mainly in the 600 range. its not only until quite recent (everyone scream...ipod!) that low Z cans started coming on song so is it a wonder that some cans wont sound great offa these vintages? - jus sayin.
   
  also isnt amp-headphone synergy a large factor with dedicated headamps as well? does every headamp drive every cans superbly? wouldnt there be just one brand & one model left on the market if just one headamp is best & drove everything well? if dedicated headamps cant do it, can we ask it of our vintage amps? - jus sayin.


----------



## Skylab

Spent some time listening to the Kenwood KA-2600 today.  Pretty nice amp for $50.  Used it with the D7000.  I can hear a tiny but of hiss, but not bad.  Has silly amounts of power.  Sound was surprisingly smooth.  Not the last word in transparency, but ridiculously good for a $50 headphone amp.  Not bad looking, either:


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Spent some time listening to the Kenwood KA-2600 today.  Pretty nice amp for $50.  Used it with the D7000.  I can hear a tiny but of hiss, but not bad.  Has silly amounts of power.  Sound was surprisingly smooth.  Not the last word in transparency, but ridiculously good for a $50 headphone amp.  Not bad looking, either:


 

 nice catch for $50. as far as my experiences go, Yamaha & Technics are the ones to tryout if clarity is what ya after. Marantz, Sansui, Pioneers & Kennies too are known to lean more toward the warmer side of neutrality.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> nice catch for $50. as far as my experiences go, Yamaha & Technics are the ones to tryout if clarity is what ya after. Marantz, Sansui, Pioneers & Kennies too are known to lean more toward the warmer side of neutrality.



Thanks! Yeah I prefer to lean a little toward warm, if I lean one way


----------



## scompton

The typical impedance mismatch with the Denons must warm them up even more.  It does a nice job with my vintage Beyers.


----------



## RexAeterna

@scottiebabie

 true enough. my bad for rambling over and over again about the same thing but your right. also 600ohm headsets been around since the 60's i believe for radio telecasters. they actually used copper wire from telephone wire for the headset 1/4 phono jack i believe. my grandfather in the military always fixed up old tube radios and made his own voice coils all the time. i still have his old work table i'm using now and some of his realistic tape decks.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scompton said:


> The typical impedance mismatch with the Denons must warm them up even more.  It does a nice job with my vintage Beyers.


 


  I'm going to try the T1's tomorrow.  But are you saying it's likely that the headphone out has a high output impedance, even though this is a solid state amp?


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm going to try the T1's tomorrow.  But are you saying it's likely that the headphone out has a high output impedance, even though this is a solid state amp?


 


  yup if u open her up, u'd prolly find a pair of resistor in series to the headout prolly 330ohm or even 470ohms. so in theory & I stress THEORY, your denons are quite possibly under damped resulting in a bit of flubby bottom hence "warmer" than usual. LOL


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> @mythless
> 
> headphone outs on these older amps were never an afterthought really. music listening was much more cherished and cared for during the 70's and 80's untill the HT became mainstream. they just ensured that headphones don't fry by putting a dropping resistor for both the left and right channel between the power amp section and headphone out. these older amps have more then enough juice to power about any headphone you stick in the the headphone socket.


 


  I'm in agreement with you.  Even the Bottlehead is probably similar in design.  It has two 120ohm resistors on the headphone jack, when you remove it you do get more "volume" and more attenuation but a lot more hiss and hum.  Sounds much better with the resistors in.


----------



## Skylab

Interesting, will open it up and look, but I will try the T1 and the HD800 tomorrow just for grins. Also going to try the HE-6 for grins as well, to really torture the poor thing.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Interesting, will open it up and look, but I will try the T1 and the HD800 tomorrow just for grins. Also going to try the HE-6 for grins as well, to really torture the poor thing.


 
   
  me thinks your T1 will sound great as my DT880-600 does. cant say much about the HD800 but my buddys HD650 rocks on it too. that said, not all vintage amps sound the same even with the same make & made in the same period. the reason i've been indulging myself with amps/receivers of late is cos its fun discovering each make & models siggy.
   
  my fav amp, a Sansui AU-517 has good bass, clarity & resolution without being cold. i can say the same for Technics, Marantz & Sony i have of the same period as they have a treble bite that the 517 dont. my other 'Suis sound even warmer & tube-like than the rest of em. all this thru the headouts as i find it much harder to discern differences thru speakers.


----------



## RexAeterna

i always saw 220-330-680ohm resistors in these amps. 470ohms seem unusal for me...but then again not. i only ever opened up a few in my life so far and my kenwood kr-720 receiver uses a 560ohm 1/2w resistor for both left and right channel. my 5000x uses the highest value of my amps of 680ohm 1/2w resistor for both left and right channel of the headphone out.
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> yup if u open her up, u'd prolly find a pair of resistor in series to the headout prolly 330ohm or even 470ohms. so in theory & I stress THEORY, your denons are quite possibly under damped resulting in a bit of flubby bottom hence "warmer" than usual. LOL


----------



## RexAeterna

i kinda had the opposite. but then again i only own a pair of akg 240s so that's why maybe but out of my kenwood kr-720,sasnui au-d7 and sansui 5000x it sounded pretty much the same in both extensions and had perfect transparency and detail. i know people will pick on me cause the price of the headphone and be ''lol 99 bucks ain't hi-fi'' 

 really great headphone and very close to natural sounding as my speakers. i guess there were a reason the 240 model is akg's longest lasting model. speakers tho i was able to tell a difference in both extensions of my amps but then again all my amps are different wpc(even tho watts don't have much to do with overall amp qaulity and built)

 also who knows all this can be psychological effects of the brain messing with me or not. the brain does weird things with your senses especially if it's psychological.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> l this thru the headouts as i find it much harder to discern differences thru speakers.


----------



## RexAeterna

that is very interesting to me. thank you for sharing this info. i'm curious tho do headamp makers ever produce the schematics of their products? or is it always shh-shh about it? i never once saw headamp schematic before. i'm curious what these guys really use in their product.
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> I'm in agreement with you.  Even the Bottlehead is probably similar in design.  It has two 120ohm resistors on the headphone jack, when you remove it you do get more "volume" and more attenuation but a lot more hiss and hum.  Sounds much better with the resistors in.


----------



## Ultrainferno

How "old" does a reveiver need to be, to be considered as vintage?
  70s? 80s? What about 90s?


----------



## REB

Not sure. I tend to think about stuff from the mid 80s and earlier as vintage, but that's a highly subjective standard! You could make a case for the early 90s to be considered vintage, it's been two decades after all. I guess vintage is the product of (distance in time) * (changes in technology).
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> How "old" does a reveiver need to be, to be considered as vintage?
> 70s? 80s? What about 90s?


----------



## Skylab

I don't think 90's can be considered vintage.  Mid-80's and earlier sounds about right to me.
   
  I'm going to also try my K340's with the Kenwwod...and connect my 80's Denon DP59L turntable since the Kenwood has a phono stage...that would be an all-vintage rig!


----------



## REB

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm going to also try my K340's with the Kenwwod...and connect my 80's Denon DP59L turntable since the Kenwood has a phono stage...that would be an all-vintage rig!


 


  That would be truly vintage indeed! Do you think the Kenwood will be able to drive the k340s?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





reb said:


> That would be truly vintage indeed! Do you think the Kenwood will be able to drive the k340s?


 

 I will know in about an hour


----------



## tnmike1

anyone using 1950s or 1960s tube Macintosh stuff??  Separate amp and preamp and tuner combos??  Ungodly priced but glorious sound


----------



## Skylab

So actually, the KA-2600 drives the K340 VERY well.  I'm impressed.  The Kenwood has PLENTY of oooomph for the K340.  Much better sound than with the Denon, too - so you guys mush have been right about the big ole resistor on the headphone out.
   
  For $50, this is silly-good sound from a headphone amp.
   
  One more fresh pic


----------



## REB

'Fraid not. Precisely because of the ungodly prices....
  
  Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> anyone using 1950s or 1960s tube Macintosh stuff??  Separate amp and preamp and tuner combos??  Ungodly priced but glorious sound


----------



## REB

NIce picture. I'll keep an eye open for a KA-2600 . Sounds like a winner!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So actually, the KA-2600 drives the K340 VERY well.  I'm impressed.  The Kenwood has PLENTY of oooomph for the K340.  Much better sound than with the Denon, too - so you guys mush have been right about the big ole resistor on the headphone out.
> 
> For $50, this is silly-good sound from a headphone amp.
> 
> One more fresh pic


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> that is very interesting to me. thank you for sharing this info. i'm curious tho do headamp makers ever produce the schematics of their products? or is it always shh-shh about it? i never once saw headamp schematic before. i'm curious what these guys really use in their product.


 

 I'm sure Bottlehead does since they're supplying kits.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I only have a 1970s grundig RTV800 http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_rtv_800_hifi.html Any thoughts?


----------



## Ouspensky

I found a very modest SR225 marantz in my late dad's garage just gathering dust. I know it ain't nothing really special, but WOW does it have juice in it to make the bass in my xb700 sound like thunder. really enjoying it


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> I only have a 1970s grundig RTV800 http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/grundig_rtv_800_hifi.html Any thoughts?


 

 Should be a good product, germany made some really interesting products back then.  They're probably even better than the japanese.
   

  
  Quote: 





ouspensky said:


> I found a very modest SR225 marantz in my late dad's garage just gathering dust. I know it ain't nothing really special, but WOW does it have juice in it to make the bass in my xb700 sound like thunder. really enjoying it


 

 Speaking of Marantz another anything from the 22xx series of receivers are also excellent pieces, but they do carry a high price.  I've been looking at a 2215b as a potential new receiver.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Speaking of Marantz another anything from the 22xx series of receivers are also excellent pieces, but they do carry a high price.  I've been looking at a 2215b as a potential new receiver.


 


  Funny you should say that - I just bought a refurbed 2275 a couple days ago.  Couldn't help myself.  Should get it mid next week.  That will be my final vintage solid state amp experiment.  Assuming the Marantz works as planned, will probably sell the Kenwood, although we will see.
   
  Here is the pic of the Marantz from the seller - hope it's this nice looking in person:


----------



## tnmike1

So what do you all suggest I use for a turntable/speaker only setup??  Don't need the tuner part of things so would think I'd be searching for an integrated amp.  Ideas??


----------



## REB

I'm partial to Sansui, so I'd recommend a powerful Sansui integrated amp. If you like a warm tubey sound, try to find a Sansui au7900 or higher. The somewhat newer au717/719 and higher (au917/919) are incredibly powerful and have a very clean sound. They'll drive just about anything. Good thing about the older Sansui's is that they have two phono connections: mm and mc (not sure about the later series, although I wouldn't be surprised if they had that as well).
   
  Then again, if you're going vintage, there's so much to chose from! I'm sure you'll get more suggestions. I've always wanted to try a good quality Luxman vintage set-up btw.
   
  EDIT: McIntosh of course! Vintage tube stuff with preamp and power amp! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> So what do you all suggest I use for a turntable/speaker only setup??  Don't need the tuner part of things so would think I'd be searching for an integrated amp.  Ideas??


----------



## mralexosborn

Picking up the 2220B. Still looking for a decent TT that isn't $$$.


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> So what do you all suggest I use for a turntable/speaker only setup??  Don't need the tuner part of things so would think I'd be searching for an integrated amp.  Ideas??


 

[size=12pt]Try and find some vintage Klipsch speakers. They will not disappoint!![/size]


----------



## scompton

My wife would never let most of those in the house


----------



## mralexosborn

There are a pair of Cornwalls in my area...for $550. How sad.


----------



## CrazyRay

Great price!!!
  There was a pair of Klipsch Forte II's for sale in my area, but I already had a pair and had nowhere to put them.


----------



## mralexosborn

I can't afford $550 at this point in my life. Grrr. I think I will build a pair of Fostex FE126's in BR cabinets and get an active sub to compensate for the lack of bass. There are numerous vintage speakers "in my area" but at not so great prices and too far away.
   
  Is a Garrard Synchrolab 95B worth $40 in working order? I found one.


----------



## RexAeterna

look for some at local goodwill. you be surprise what you find there especially if your goodwill is near a high income area(those rich people throw about anything away or donate it) i found all my speakers at goodwill for like 20 bucks most i spent. my main speakers are a pair of vintage Technics Sb-2845. wonderful huge floor speakers. only thing i had to do tho was replace the tweeters but i had spare speakers around my house. massive soundstage,natural sound and hard hitting 12'' woofers. other wonderful speakers i scored was a pair of vintage pioneer cs-77a floor speakers. very heavy around 40lbs each cause of the beautiful cabnients and the woofers and midrange was made out of CLOTH. had some nice tweeter horns as well. i'm thinking of stealing them back from my brothers cause i'm letting them use it for now with my sansui 5000x.

 if you want floor speakers with killer woofers vintage sony and technics made insane hard hitting monsters where no dedicated subwoofer is needed when you crank up the bass/super bass knobs  on your amp. thing tho you might have to worry about when finding these. not all of them is in perfect condition  and you can't test them out there cause there is no available speaker wire usually and might not have any amps or receivers sitting around to plug in. can also have the possibility of foam surrounds decay cause some speakers used cheap surrounds and have to replace the surrounds or once of the speakers can be dead or possible it is the cross-over caps.

  
  Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> I can't afford $550 at this point in my life. Grrr. I think I will build a pair of Fostex FE126's in BR cabinets and get an active sub to compensate for the lack of bass. There are numerous vintage speakers "in my area" but at not so great prices and too far away.
> 
> Is a Garrard Synchrolab 95B worth $40 in working order? I found one.


----------



## mythless

EPI speakers are great as well, TT depends if you want belt or DD.  Recevier/amplifiers doesn't matter imo, unless you want to save space.
   
  Some speakers that might be cheaper than the more known ones are General Sound (Satelitte + passive sub), EPI/Genesis, Boston Acoustic, and Magnat are some.  Axiom, PSB, Energy are some Canadian brands.  There are so many great speakers out there, you just have to look.


----------



## scompton

Where in VA do you live?  There are 3 Goodwills along Rt 50 in Arlington and Falls Church that sometimes have lots of electronics.


----------



## moodyrn

I just finished sanding and refinishing both my fisher cabinet and klipsch epic CF-2s. I'll try to get some pics up later tonight. The epics are really some great sounding speakers. I prefer them to just about all the current klipsch I've heard the last 5 years.


----------



## moodyrn

These are just some preliminary pics. I'm still not quite finished. I still have to bolt the fisher to the case, and I still need to polish/buff the amp chassis. The brass knobs have become a little tarnished. I also have some matching speaker spikes on the way that are suppose to be here tomorrow. The speakers were a light  oak finish to begin with, but they were scratched up. So I wanted them to match my fisher along with the rest of the furniture in my office. It's been a long week. I started this process on Monday. I am an amature so please don't judge my work too harshly.


----------



## Skylab

Looks beautiful, Moodyrn! Nice work.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Skylab. Maybe tomorrow I can finally get back to enjoying my "vintage" setup.


----------



## Skylab

Did you make the Fisher cabinet from scratch, or did you refinish a vintage one?


----------



## moodyrn

I bought an old one on ebay just to refinish it. But it was in worst shape than I thought it would be. The bottom had dry rotted and there were chips as well. I ended filing a dispute with paypal to get a partial refund because the seller described it in excellent condition with only a few scratches. When I took it out of the box, the bottom literally fell to peices. I paid 40.00 for it and got a 15.00 refund(imo, it still wasn't worth 25.00). It took quite a while to sand it deep enough to get all of the scratches out. I had to use some wood filler on a couple of chips on the back edges. When I first got it, it looked so bad, I considered trashing it and having mcintosh cabinets build me one, but I decided to give it a try since all I would be investing in was sanding blocks, varnish, and lacquer.


----------



## Skylab

Well it sure looks like it came out well. Congrats!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks.


----------



## BmWr75

You guys want to see a lot of vintage (and new), check out AudioKarma's Member's Systems forum:
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=175


----------



## mralexosborn

Quote: 





scompton said:


> Where in VA do you live?  There are 3 Goodwills along Rt 50 in Arlington and Falls Church that sometimes have lots of electronics.


 

 I will check those out on Sunday either before or after the meet since I will be in NoVa anyway. Excited?
   
  I picked up the receiver. The guy was pretty awesome. He wasn't much into vintage speakers but receivers are something that he does not lack. He had a cute little Technics turntable too. I am using my SM3's and the 2220B's FM radio. No antenna but I still get a couple very clear signals.


----------



## mythless

Here is a picture of my Rotel.


----------



## scompton

The only problem with Goodwill is it's very hit or miss.  I can't use speakers so I've never really investigated them but at times, I've seen 20 pair at one or another of those stores.


----------



## mythless

I have never been lucky at any second hand store besides one pawn shop.  Even garage sales have been fruitless for me.  But, it's all about luck, even with online listings.  A safe TT is technics or pioneer with Direct Drive and with S-shaped arm.


----------



## scompton

I got a nice NAD 3155 at Goodwill and I've seen a couple of other receivers that I should have bought but went home to research first.  Went back to buy it and it was gone.
   
  I also found a Dual 1219 at an estate sale for $10.  Unfortunately it needed $150 to get it working.


----------



## mralexosborn

All I want is a decent TT for under $50 then I will get a decent cart for $50. Then it will sit on my Marantz and play with my future Fostex cubes. I will have a cute little setup then. I saw a Pro-Ject Debut III (in white!) at Best Buy for $250, open box. I was tempted but I resisted since I read that many vintage TT's sound better for the price.


----------



## mythless

I've seen and heard the pro-ject debut and the turntables that I have can run circles around it.  If you want new go with P2/P3 rega. 
   
  Keep looking for vintage, let me name a few that generally go for cheap:
  Realistic LAB-400/420 (though prices are getting higher) LAB-500 even the LAB-440 is pretty good
  Taya DP-550 or other Taya
  Sanyo Q60/Q50/Q40 and other "Plus Series"
  Fisher tables with the S-Shaped arm (MT-6225 or higher)
  Pioneer PL-518
  Technics SL1xxx but be careful of the mk2 line
  Hitachi - any S-shaped
  Dual - idler,belt and DD were pretty good
  Lenco
  Akai - any S-Shaped arm
  JVC - I had a QL-F4 great table but many JVC tables fly under the radar and can be bought for cheap.
   
  Hrmm that should do lol I can probably name some more but I think you'd get the picture.  Don't be misled by brand names, especially Japanese that includes Marantz.  Many tables were made by CEC who OEM tables for Taya, Realistic, Marantz, and many others.  Generally speaking, any Japanese tables made in the 70s are pretty good tables.


----------



## mralexosborn

I just checked, non of those are on Craigslist in my area. Grrr. Thanks for the suggestions though, I will keep looking.


----------



## Deep Funk

Philips also made good turn tables. It still amazes me how underestimated that manufacturer has become...


----------



## REB

That is gorgeous! How many layers of varnish did you apply?
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> These are just some preliminary pics. I'm still not quite finished. I still have to bolt the fisher to the case, and I still need to polish/buff the amp chassis. The brass knobs have become a little tarnished. I also have some matching speaker spikes on the way that are suppose to be here tomorrow. The speakers were a light  oak finish to begin with, but they were scratched up. So I wanted them to match my fisher along with the rest of the furniture in my office. It's been a long week. I started this process on Monday. I am an amature so please don't judge my work too harshly.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks REB! On the fisher cabinet, I used 2 layers of varnish and 4 layers of polyurethane. On these speakers, I used 3 layers of varnish and 2 layers of polyurethane. I don't know what kind of wood the speakers used, but they didn't soak in the varnish as well as the fisher cabinet did. But on the other hand, I didn't have to apply as many coats for poly urethane either.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Here is a picture of my Rotel.


 


  Wow that is very cool looking!  How's the headphone out?


----------



## Adu

I own a NAD 3020 "i"-version.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Thanks REB! On the fisher cabinet, I used 2 layers of varnish and 4 layers of polyurethane. On these speakers, I used 3 layers of varnish and 2 layers of polyurethane. I don't know what kind of wood the speakers used, but they didn't soak in the varnish as well as the fisher cabinet did. But on the other hand, I didn't have to apply as many coats for poly urethane either.


 


 O WOW I'm amazed you could mix the polyurethane with the layers of varnish.  ON my antique boats I either use one or the other, but never a combination on top of each other.  Varnish needs to "breathe" and poly might seal it.  Also did you use 0000 wet steel wool or ultra=smooth wet sanding between varnish coats?  THat would give the previous layer some "tooth" for the next layer to bebetter attached
   
  Please don't take any of this as criticism and don't forget I'm doing boats subjected to water and weather, not indoor stuff.  And my usual coats are 12-14 layers deep.  Still, it's a beautiful projedt and you should be proud of the results


----------



## mralexosborn

Has anyone heard of the Akai AP-D2?


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> I just checked, non of those are on Craigslist in my area. Grrr. Thanks for the suggestions though, I will keep looking.


 


  There's a good thread by memepool on good vintage turntables.  Also check local listings on eBay.  Just make sure it's local enough to do a pick up instead of having it shipped.


----------



## mralexosborn

I just won the Akai AP-D2 for $16 +$20 shipping. Good working condition but the cover is a bit scratched up. Good buy?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=150563423371&si=rJHfqMyJCfTbe13lsR21QzyAuWs%253D&viewitem=#ht_526wt_1139
   
  Also what instruction should I give on shipping, if I recall correctly there was a specific way to ship a TT?
  What cart to get?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





deep funk said:


> Philips also made good turn tables. It still amazes me how underestimated that manufacturer has become...


 

  
  Yes, they made very good tables and also amplifiers too.  I've been on the look out for some of their gear.


  Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> I just won the Akai AP-D2 for $16 +$20 shipping. Good working condition but the cover is a bit scratched up. Good buy?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=150563423371&si=rJHfqMyJCfTbe13lsR21QzyAuWs%253D&viewitem=#ht_526wt_1139
> 
> Also what instruction should I give on shipping, if I recall correctly there was a specific way to ship a TT?
> What cart to get?


 


  Akai made decent tables, should be a nice starter.  Err look on audiokarma on packing instructions....how much you want to spend on a cartridge?  But, you should just wait and see what it comes with.


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow that is very cool looking!  How's the headphone out?


 

 Pretty good  can drive just about anything but it's not the best signal ever.  Lots of background noise.  But, sounds ok, haha I just tend to use the tape out with my Kicas.


----------



## mralexosborn

The seller said he doesn't know how old the cartridge is but it sounds good. I am looking at spending $50 max on the cartridge. Shure M97Xe or Grado Black seem to have good things said about them.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Is there some kind of website where you can look up how much receivers, speakers, etc cost in the past and what the actual value of them is now?
  I think I saw something like that once but I can't seem to find it anymore via Google.
  It would be very handy to judge second hand offers, that's why I'm asking. (Pair of B&W DM14 for 50$, ao )
  Thanks!


----------



## mralexosborn

Classic Audio give the common resale value on some gear. 
http://www.classic-audio.com/


----------



## livewire

Most of the stuff shown in the Classic Audio marketplace is
   just open auctions that are from elsewhere. Therefore, I use:
   
*Ebay.*
  Run a search for the item you are interested in.
  Search *both open and closed auctions.*
  This serves as a real world barometer as to what these items
  are actually selling for and their popularity in the used market.
  Armed with that info, you will know what a "good deal" is
  if you happen to find the same item locally at a garage sale or swap meet
  or at a Goodwill outlet as well as Craigslist.
   
  Here again, buyer beware. Old stuff can be in bad shape requiring
  expensive rework or repair.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For $50, this is silly-good sound from a headphone amp.


 
  Hee hee. What'd I tell ya? And your Kenwood is from the early '70s. Wait'll you hear some stuff from late in the decade or beyond, when everyone decided to tackle the "transistor sound" problem.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Hee hee. What'd I tell ya? And your Kenwood is from the early '70s. Wait'll you hear some stuff from late in the decade or beyond, when everyone decided to tackle the "transistor sound" problem.


 


  Haha, that's true too, there are so many nice sounding SS stuff in the late 70s.  Early 80s had some decent stuff too.  Skylab or anyone, if you ever see any Optonica gear for sale and cheap too I would recommend you pick them up.  They were Sharp's high end equipment and were really advance back the day but they had lousy marketing so it never took off, but they made excellent stuff.  Some of their turntables used a granite (real) plinth, and the table probably weight near or over 30lbs from what I've read.


----------



## Skylab

Well the Marantz 2275 I just bought will be the more interesting test. While still not expensive by the standard of the sort of headphone amps we buy around these parts, I paid several hundred dollars for a mint unit, which is a lot more than the $50 I paid for the Kenwood. So the Marantz will face a bit more scrutiny, not just from my headphone amps, but also from my vintage Fisher KX100. Will be a fun time comparing them. This is my latest little "project"


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well the Marantz 2275 I just bought will be the more interesting test. While still not expensive by the standard of the sort of headphone amps we buy around these parts, I paid several hundred dollars for a mint unit, which is a lot more than the $50 I paid for the Kenwood. So the Marantz will face a bit more scrutiny, not just from my headphone amps, but also from my vintage Fisher KX100. Will be a fun time comparing them. This is my latest little "project"


 


  Marantz generally sell a lot higher than other brand names because of the history being an American company, however the Japanese did purchase the company in the early 70s.  But, being made in USA and being an Americana item makes it valuable to some, generally Americans.  JBL is another.  I'm the same way with Canadian products, if I can find any haha.  From what I know of Marantz, and I've only heard them never owned, they sound really smooth very comparable to tubes but with more oomphs, Good mid range and bass and also good treble, however it may not be as "sharp" compared to other SS amplifiers.  I think your receiver is 75wpc?  I think this unit generally sells between 200-400 depending on condition.  Worth while for some and others might look else where.  Desirability, especially in vintage, doesn't necessarily reflect on the sound quality or features they produce but rather affected by the people who are looking for them and what they're willing to pay.  Anyone have interest in vintage speakers?


----------



## tnmike1

searching ebay I see some vintage receivers have been cleaned and serviced and many are flaunting the fact they have "original transistors" and "new LED lighting" for the panels.  Is this a good thing?  I mean the original transistors vs. new transistors.  And aren't those LEDs brighter than the original soft glow of the original Marantz look??


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> searching ebay I see some vintage receivers have been cleaned and serviced and many are flaunting the fact they have "original transistors" and "new LED lighting" for the panels.  Is this a good thing?  I mean the original transistors vs. new transistors.  And aren't those LEDs brighter than the original soft glow of the original Marantz look??


 

 Well, newer transistors can change the sound quality so being original is better but it's just how they want to "market" their ad.  But, transistors can last for quite some times unless it amplifier was abused or wasn't properly cared for.  Bulbs die out and need to be replaced and don't affect the value at all.  Some bulbs are unobtainable and need to be replaced with LEDs.


----------



## Skylab

I wouldn't want "new transistors", but LED bulbs are a godsend. Replacing lightbulbs sucks. I had a Dynaco Stereo 400 with the coolest blue meters, but that thing ate through lightbulbs like a teenager eats big macs.


----------



## takezo

if "old" transistors are replaced with "newer" or recent equivalent transistors and the sound is worse, then most probably the bias servo circuit
  is out of whack and needs adjustments. if it has the adjustable bias servo it can be adjusted to account for the differing characteristics of the
  transistors. the performance headroom of the amp bias servo circuit needs to be restored for the amp to sound as it was intended. and imo,
  transistors, although they do contribute, do not make the sound of the amp, on their own. the design and topology is the more critical factor imo.
   
  this applies as well to the caps. changing out caps requires adjustments to the bias servo as well. transistors and ic's usually last many decades
  if used within their tolerances, but eletrolytic caps do not last forever. those found in the power supply section are usually the culprit; as they
  lose their ability to hold the voltages, thanks to the eletrolytes drying out over time, the current getting through increases and tends to fry
  the resistors, transistors, ics, relays and others...


----------



## tnmike1

many thanks to you all for educating me on the transistor issue. And LEDs vs. original lighting sounds logical too


----------



## zajo

Here is my Sansui 9090db, it sounds quite good with my HD650's.  I will be building a bottlehead crack amp soon to see how a dedicated headphone amp compares.
   

   
  I also have a pair of EPI A120's that are in desperate need of a re-foam. The tweeters in these are one of my favorites.  Very good detail with-out listening fatigue.
   

   
  This is my Rotel RX-403.  It definitely doesn't sound as good as my Sansui, but I picked it up for 50 cents at a garage sale and it got me through high school and college.


----------



## mythless

I will have to post up a picture of some of my other gear.


----------



## wualta

If no one's mentioned it yet, Audiokarma.org is a whole gaggle of forums devoted heavily but not exclusively to vintage electronics, tape machines, speakers, and what have you. What doesn't satisfy them, they modify. Not unlike HF, come to think of it.
   
  Yeah, don't pay too much attention to the "original transistors" ploy-- kinda makes you wonder what _*else*_ might have been swapped out. Mostly you want to know if a given piece has been serviced, and if so, what was serviced, and by whom. Sometimes replacement parts have to be hand selected so they match existing parts, so you want the work to have been done by someone competent. So always ask the "has it been serviced" question. Sometimes the seller knows, and sometimes not. If not, you have to do some detective work and get photos of the interior, and so on. Buying vintage is fun and cost effective, but it's also a gamble.
   
  And yes, Optonica is worth a second look if you stumble over some. They made a very interesting MOSFET power amp, for example.


----------



## woob

I am a new vintage receiver owner!!  Picked this up today.  Haven't had a chance to listen yet.  I idiotically left my headphones at the shop haha.  Picking them up tomorrow.


----------



## REB

That is a wonderful Sansui! That the TOTL for receivers right?
  
  Quote: 





zajo said:


> Here is my Sansui 9090db, it sounds quite good with my HD650's.  I will be building a bottlehead crack amp soon to see how a dedicated headphone amp compares.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## REB

I'd be really interested in hearing your impressions as to how the Marantz sounds, Skylab. I've seen a couple here for sale in very good condition, but they do fetch a fair price! Might be worth it if they sound as good as they look (blue vu-meters just are gorgeous!).
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well the Marantz 2275 I just bought will be the more interesting test. While still not expensive by the standard of the sort of headphone amps we buy around these parts, I paid several hundred dollars for a mint unit, which is a lot more than the $50 I paid for the Kenwood. So the Marantz will face a bit more scrutiny, not just from my headphone amps, but also from my vintage Fisher KX100. Will be a fun time comparing them. This is my latest little "project"


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, if you visit AudioKarma you will find the 2275 is s very well liked unit. Personally I favor the 2230 (still looking for one) based on a short listening session I had. Meanwhile I am making do with a 2238B in excellent condition.
   
  Note these receivers work wonderfully driving cans like the AKG K1000 and Stax cans via energizer boxes.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, Miguel! Your Marantz looks great. Really looking forward to getting mine. Should arrive Wednesday.


----------



## BmWr75

Sony VFET integrated - the headphone out on this amp sounds really good driving 600 ohm cans.


----------



## wualta

Yay VFET!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> O WOW I'm amazed you could mix the polyurethane with the layers of varnish.  ON my antique boats I either use one or the other, but never a combination on top of each other.  Varnish needs to "breathe" and poly might seal it.  Also did you use 0000 wet steel wool or ultra=smooth wet sanding between varnish coats?  THat would give the previous layer some "tooth" for the next layer to bebetter attached
> 
> Please don't take any of this as criticism and don't forget I'm doing boats subjected to water and weather, not indoor stuff.  And my usual coats are 12-14 layers deep.  Still, it's a beautiful projedt and you should be proud of the results


 

 No, I didn't take it as criticism. But I'm surprised by your reaction of using layers of both. I just basically followed the direction on the label. I also watched some online guides which were basically the same as the directions on the labels. After applying each coat of varnish, I waited 10-15 min until it reached my desired color. And wiped off the excess with a cloth. I waited 4 hours between coats. I didn't do any sanding because the directions specifically said do not sand at all. Now on the poly, I used a fine grit sanding block(still following the directions and online guides) between coats. Eventhough I'm not an expert, and this was my first time doing anything like this, I'm happy with the results. I really was just hoping I wouldn't mess it up.


----------



## jeffreyfranz

I have a Dynaco preamp that came our around the same time as my Dynakit Mk. III tube amps. I forget the name of the model. It's out in the garage at the moment.


----------



## zajo

reb said:


> That is a wonderful Sansui! That the TOTL for receivers right?




Yeah I believe the 9090db was TOTL in '75. 

Mine is in near mint original condition. It has never been opened up and it still has it's original inspection stickers on it.


----------



## scottiebabie

*@moodyrn* great job! thats gonna be my project once i find a worthy "victim" as i've promised myself i must own atleast one classic tubie before im don with this hobby. 
   
  @BmWr75 hey its Sony VFET. been looking for one of those for the longest but they are few & far btwn in my neck of the woods atleast. i hear they were sony's best effort at sonics.


----------



## REB

Does anyone have a vintage Pioneer receiver? I've got one in a by now rather sorry state, an SX-770. Should have it revised, I guess, because I can't do it myself. It sounded good though, warmish and powerful. It's good blue lights (always good) and the casing is made from some sort of 70s incarnation of bakelite. Very stylish.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> No, I didn't take it as criticism. But I'm surprised by your reaction of using layers of both. I just basically followed the direction on the label. I also watched some online guides which were basically the same as the directions on the labels. After applying each coat of varnish, I waited 10-15 min until it reached my desired color. And wiped off the excess with a cloth. I waited 4 hours between coats. I didn't do any sanding because the directions specifically said do not sand at all. Now on the poly, I used a fine grit sanding block(still following the directions and online guides) between coats. Eventhough I'm not an expert, and this was my first time doing anything like this, I'm happy with the results. I really was just hoping I wouldn't mess it up.


 


 glad you didn't take it as a criticism because it wasn't meant that way.  And the more I think on it, I'm applying a wood-preserving material=--varnish--to wood that will flex, shrink and swell and not be as "stable" as a piece of furniture--your receiver and speaker--in a controlled environment.  So for my application, poly on a boat hull would never do because it doesn't flex.  Varnish does.   So we're talking of two different applications: wood in a wet, outdoor environment vs. furniture in a controlled environment.  Two different animals entirely


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Rob, if you visit AudioKarma you will find the 2275 is s very well liked unit. Personally I favor the 2230 (still looking for one) based on a short listening session I had. Meanwhile I am making do with a 2238B in excellent condition.
> 
> Note these receivers work wonderfully driving cans like the AKG K1000 and Stax cans via energizer boxes.


 


 a quick search of ebay turned up several 2230s plus some other goodies.  DOn't know what they should sell for, but interesting tracking them.  Assuming, Miguel, they're the 2230s you're talking about


----------



## Skylab

Well, my Marantz 2275 came today, and it's everything I had hoped for.  The FM section sounds just AMAZING.  I paid a little extra to get one in mint condition, but I think it was worth it:


----------



## moodyrn

Great news Skylab. Please keep us informed.


----------



## CrazyRay




----------



## mralexosborn

If you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for it?


----------



## Skylab

$625.  I've seen them go for around $400 in just a little worse shape than this one.  But this one really looks mint, and sounds terrific - not a hint of noise or hum or hiss.  The sound with my Beyer T1's is actually pretty spectacular.  It was a little dark with the D7000 - probably that old impedance mismatch issue.


----------



## mralexosborn

Well...nevermind! Way out of my price range. Enjoy!


----------



## CrazyRay

Worth every penny IMO!!!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, my Marantz 2275 came today, and it's everything I had hoped for.  The FM section sounds just AMAZING.  I paid a little extra to get one in mint condition, but I think it was worth it:


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> $625.  I've seen them go for around $400 in just a little worse shape than this one.  But this one really looks mint, and sounds terrific - not a hint of noise or hum or hiss.  The sound with my Beyer T1's is actually pretty spectacular.  It was a little dark with the D7000 - probably that old impedance mismatch issue.


----------



## moodyrn

That's a really good price. I've seen them in much worst shape go for that price. You always seem to have a tendicy to find some really great deals. That's probably the nicest 2275 I've seen. Congrats!!


----------



## mythless

Very nice buy, mint conditions are really hard to come buy.  I should bite the bullet and buy a Marantz myself.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks fellas. I was really anxious after buying it, to see what it looked like in person. Fortunately, it exceeded my expectations


----------



## moodyrn

Can't wait to hear how it compares to the fisher, both speaker and headphone out. But I suspect that the headphone out is more powerful. Fisher put in some pretty high value resistors which is why I replaced mine to make the headphone out more powerful.


----------



## tnmike1

searching ebay for a Marantz for myself, came across "penninw" a builder of Marantz cabinets for most of the 22xxseries.  Builds out of walnut.  From the picture, looks really nice and may be a good replacement for the metal cabinets of the Marantz line.  Says he also builds cabinets for other brands.  Might be of some interest


----------



## RexAeterna

holy crap! me personally would never pay over 400 bucks maybe and that's being generous for a marantz receiver. i know it's american made and everything but the prices on these things are going nuts. i probably would spend up to 600 for a nice american made Fisher 500b Tube amp in mint condition with all original parts. i think i stick with the japanese made stuff and Sansui for me but i congradulate you on your purchase and i hope you have fun with it for many years to come. thing i do like about some marantz is they built them very well with heavy steel and real wood. not that simulated vaneer stuff that some receivers used back in the day.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> $625.  I've seen them go for around $400 in just a little worse shape than this one.  But this one really looks mint, and sounds terrific - not a hint of noise or hum or hiss.  The sound with my Beyer T1's is actually pretty spectacular.  It was a little dark with the D7000 - probably that old impedance mismatch issue.


----------



## Headphone Workshop

I have an integrated Sansui AU-777 (the first solid state Sansui amp after they moved from tubes)--it definitely has that "vintage sound." While we're on vintage gear, I picked up a cheap ($35) 6v6 headphone amp on ebay a while back and it sounded great with a vintage lush sound and a huge transformer, but not nearly as refined as a more modern amp.


----------



## RexAeterna

sansui au-777 is a great amp but i don't get what you  mean by ''vintage sound''. i know it's your personal experience and your opinion and i respect that. just curious what ''vintage sound'' means? i heard lot of vintage amps and receivers and never once experience a ''vintage sound'' it either was accurate reproduction or ''warm'' like tube sound(not saying all tubes sound warm tho). sorry if it seems like i'm being a douche. it's hard to understand emotion through text. i just sometimes don't understand and would love to hear others interpretation of ''sound'' as a learning experience. 
  Quote: 





headphone workshop said:


> I have an integrated Sansui AU-777 (the first solid state Sansui amp after they moved from tubes)--it definitely has that "vintage sound." While we're on vintage gear, I picked up a cheap ($35) 6v6 headphone amp on ebay a while back and it sounded great with a vintage lush sound and a huge transformer, but not nearly as refined as a more modern amp.


----------



## francisdemarte

quote name="Skylab" url="/forum/thread/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/270#post_7296066"] $625.  I've seen them go for around $400 in just a little worse shape than this one.  But this one really looks mint, and sounds terrific - not a hint of noise or hum or hiss.  The sound with my Beyer T1's is actually pretty spectacular.  It was a little dark with the D7000 - probably that old impedance mismatch issue.
[/quote]

The headphone out of my Marantz 2265b is extremely warm sounding. Any other Marantz owners notice this?


----------



## livewire

My Marantz 2275 "woody" has that "vintage sound".
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Paid $250 for it last year.
  Cosmetically perfect, it did need the controls cleaned and new bulbs.


----------



## scottiebabie

nice score on the 2275 skylab - it looks very minty & u did say its totally refurb so it should last the next generation of little skylabs too.LOL. i try to buy a 2275 last year but was a tad late. the thing went for $295 & i thought that was large! heh esp considering that an equivalent Akai AA-8500 (muy cool looking btw) goes for $50.
   
  isnt this vintage gear the bomb though??!! drive speakers & headphones with equal aplomb & retro cool is soooo in! i just love this hobby. glad some headfiers are branching out to "alternative" power sources. its alll goooood!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Lets just hope our enthusiasm don't continue to drive the prices up. It's already too late for the vintage tube gear. Even the ones needing a major overhaul are going for several hundred dollars. I hope the same doesn't continue to happen with the solid state vintage gear.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lets just hope our enthusiasm don't continue to drive the prices up. It's already too late for the vintage tube gear. Even the ones needing a major overhaul are going for several hundred dollars. I hope the same doesn't continue to happen with the solid state vintage gear.


 


  Too late on some items, have you seen the prices on some Pioneer turntables?  Even some of the SS like the AU-717, and Pioneer lines have gone through the roof...I guess anything that was TOTL or dual transformer or with a name behind them like Marantz have dramatically jumped in price.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lets just hope our enthusiasm don't continue to drive the prices up. It's already too late for the vintage tube gear. Even the ones needing a major overhaul are going for several hundred dollars. I hope the same doesn't continue to happen with the solid state vintage gear.


 

 true dat! scratch wot i've been postin on these here old rusty tin buckets! they sound liek shiaaat, look liek shiaaaat & devalue liek shiaaaaat!
  dont buy none no matter what no matter who no matter when. luckily im a shiaaaaat kinda dude so its ok if i buy cheaaaap shiaaaaat! pls remember all that folks! be a "real" headfier & keep buyin em shiny cool dedicated headamps. they da bomb!


----------



## RexAeterna

i know what you mean. i mean some prices due to popularity or cause  it's ''old'' must mean ''high price!'' lot people that find them sitting in their garage or a hand-me-down. so people you know what to do to prevent prices of sky rocketing. ''these old rusty boxes sound so dull and crappy,tinny and like listening to a tin can.it's like listening to a fancy flashing turd nugget.'' spread the word and claim all the profit for yourself.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lets just hope our enthusiasm don't continue to drive the prices up. It's already too late for the vintage tube gear. Even the ones needing a major overhaul are going for several hundred dollars. I hope the same doesn't continue to happen with the solid state vintage gear.


----------



## diodiel

did anyone experience pioneer sx-780 here? what do you guys think =)


----------



## REB

me want!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, my Marantz 2275 came today, and it's everything I had hoped for.  The FM section sounds just AMAZING.  I paid a little extra to get one in mint condition, but I think it was worth it:


----------



## REB

If it sounds as good as it looks (and it does, reading your posts), it's worth every penny. Absolutely gorgeous receiver! How's the gyroscope tuning compared to 'normal' tuning?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> $625.  I've seen them go for around $400 in just a little worse shape than this one.  But this one really looks mint, and sounds terrific - not a hint of noise or hum or hiss.  The sound with my Beyer T1's is actually pretty spectacular.  It was a little dark with the D7000 - probably that old impedance mismatch issue.


----------



## REB

I think in general what is meant by vintage sound (and that's the way I use it too for my sansui amps) is a sound that is recognizably warmer and more powerful than the average sound of a comparable set (in terms of money) nowadays. You're right, though, it is an emotive word, making it hard to pin it down. As far as accuracy is concerned, I guess it's as accurate as most reproductions nowadays.
  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> sansui au-777 is a great amp but i don't get what you  mean by ''vintage sound''. i know it's your personal experience and your opinion and i respect that. just curious what ''vintage sound'' means? i heard lot of vintage amps and receivers and never once experience a ''vintage sound'' it either was accurate reproduction or ''warm'' like tube sound(not saying all tubes sound warm tho). sorry if it seems like i'm being a douche. it's hard to understand emotion through text. i just sometimes don't understand and would love to hear others interpretation of ''sound'' as a learning experience.


----------



## REB

I have an sx770 which is probably the same except for the watts it produces. Rich, warm and detailed sound when I had it hooked up to my speakers (ungodly large monsters built by my father-in-law, which sounded fabulous until old age got them).


----------



## REB

It's slightly different in Europe, I'd say. Vintage Japanese stuff like Sansui is almost unaffordable. An au-d9 in good condition (not mint, but nothing wrong with it) will set you back 300-350 euros on the private market and more when you buy from a dealer. Marantz is still affordable, unless you're talking about stuff like Skylab's: excellent equipment in mint condition. You really have to dig deep in your wallet for stuff like that. I just saw an ad for a Sansui ca-f1 and ba-f1 preamp-amp combo: 1199 euros... that's about 1600 USD right? Also saw an ad for a vintage marantz tuner in mint condition with an oscilloscope. Would love to have it, but it's pricey: 425 euros.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





reb said:


> If it sounds as good as it looks (and it does, reading your posts), it's worth every penny. Absolutely gorgeous receiver! How's the gyroscope tuning compared to 'normal' tuning?


 

 One of the most impressive things is actually the sound of the FM tuner, which is GREAT.  The Gyroscope tuning is cool, but not sure it buys anything more than that   But man I had forgotten how good FM can sound!
   
  There are still a lot of vintage SS integrated amps and receivers that can be had very, very cheap.  I bet most of them sound pretty good.  I bought that Kenwood for $50, and it sounded good as a headphone amp, and had no problem driving even the HE-6!
   
  Things like the Fisher and Scott tube amps have been pretty pricey for a while.  I am no expert in vintage SS gear, but I have been into "vintage" (70's/80's) turntables for almost 10 years.  Prices are all about a combination of overall desirability of a given piece PLUS the condition.  With vintage, you always pay a premium for mint.   I paid the double-premium for the Marantz I just bought - excellent cosmetic condition AND just serviced with new LED lights, etc. etc.  There are still some major bargains to be had in vintage audio of all kinds, but it requires a lot of learning, and some trial and error even if you have done the research.


----------



## REB

I listen to the radio (FM) a lot, so I'm paying attention here! I haven't found my Holy Grail tuner yet. I have a sansui tuner that is very good and a sansui receiver that is also very good, but I wouldn't say excellent. I think it FM sound can still be bettered in my set-up. Vintage Sansui tuners are ridiculously expensive over here. What would you say to between 1,000 and 1,500 euros for a Sansui X1 tuner? So I might keep my eyes open for a Marantz tuner. Or a Kenwood tuner. Word is they made some very good tuners back in the day.
   
  Anyway, congratz on the purchase and enjoy it!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> One of the most impressive things is actually the sound of the FM tuner, which is GREAT.  The Gyroscope tuning is cool, but not sure it buys anything more than that   But man I had forgotten how good FM can sound!
> 
> There are still a lot of vintage SS integrated amps and receivers that can be had very, very cheap.  I bet most of them sound pretty good.  I bought that Kenwood for $50, and it sounded good as a headphone amp, and had no problem driving even the HE-6!
> 
> Things like the Fisher and Scott tube amps have been pretty pricey for a while.  I am no expert in vintage SS gear, but I have been into "vintage" (70's/80's) turntables for almost 10 years.  Prices are all about a combination of overall desirability of a given piece PLUS the condition.  With vintage, you always pay a premium for mint.   I paid the double-premium for the Marantz I just bought - excellent cosmetic condition AND just serviced with new LED lights, etc. etc.  There are still some major bargains to be had in vintage audio of all kinds, but it requires a lot of learning, and some trial and error even if you have done the research.


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> holy crap! me personally would never pay over 400 bucks maybe and that's being generous for a marantz receiver. i know it's american made and everything but the prices on these things are going nuts. i probably would spend up to 600 for a nice american made Fisher 500b Tube amp in mint condition with all original parts. i think i stick with the japanese made stuff and Sansui for me but i congradulate you on your purchase and i hope you have fun with it for many years to come. thing i do like about some marantz is they built them very well with heavy steel and real wood. not that simulated vaneer stuff that some receivers used back in the day.


 


 the "vintage" argument could be made for wooden boats.  People in fiberglass "chlorox bottles" see me on the lake in a 1952 wooden Chris Craft and wonder why I spend 100+ hours per year on maintenance.  Or, go to an antique boat show and a boat selling for $500 in the 1950s now sells for $35,000 and up perfectly restored.  Yet there is an argument for things vintage: (1) the love of things from the past (2) the look/warmth of the object (3) the harkening back to "when I was a kid" or (4) the stuff was just better made and sounded or performed better back then.
   
  At least this is the way I see it


----------



## REB

I hear you. As kids we used to sail with my father a lot and he always had a wooden sailing boat (different makers, types and sizes), usually quite old. the hours we had to put in it to protect it from the elements were substantial. It was worth it to us though, because a vintage thing brings something special. Especially if you're talking about wood.
   
  It's probably no coincidence that I like vintage things as well and that it was my father who first gave me a reel-to-reel recorder and a vintage pioneer receiver. This was when the cd-player had already been introduced btw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> the "vintage" argument could be made for wooden boats.  People in fiberglass "chlorox bottles" see me on the lake in a 1952 wooden Chris Craft and wonder why I spend 100+ hours per year on maintenance.  Or, go to an antique boat show and a boat selling for $500 in the 1950s now sells for $35,000 and up perfectly restored.  Yet there is an argument for things vintage: (1) the love of things from the past (2) the look/warmth of the object (3) the harkening back to "when I was a kid" or (4) the stuff was just better made and sounded or performed better back then.
> 
> At least this is the way I see it


----------



## REB

just made an offer on a sansui tu719, almost totl (the tu919 was ahead of it). Great looking tuner with very good fm capabilities. Let's see whether I get it!


----------



## Skylab

Good luck, REB! 
   
  I wish I could sample a bunch of these vintage receivers, just to gain some first hand knowledge about the differences in their sound.  This Marantz drives the 600 ohm Beyer T1's so well, it's really quite surprising to me.  Honestly, it makes it kind of hard to justify some of the stand-alone headphone amps I have heard. 
   
  There is a very interesting phenomenon, in that there are better headphones now than ever, but I have found the "built in" headphone outs of some of the modern gear I have (CD players and preamps) to be well below my dedicated headphone amps in terms of performance.  And yet, of the three vintage 70's SS amp/receivers I have tried lately, all three of them sounded no worse than very good in driving modern, sometimes tricky headphones.
   
  Although having said that, it was the astonishing headphone performance of the Leben tube integrated that got me thinking about trying vintage integrateds and receivers in the first place...


----------



## REB

But you can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!
   
  You're right, it is a strange phenomena. Headphone sales have skyrocketed over the past decade or so, but the quality of headphone outs has decreased significantly. It does make you wonder whether all the dedicated amps are necessary... (he swallows, remembering he just bought a yarland p100)
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Good luck, REB!
> 
> I wish I could sample a bunch of these vintage receivers, just to gain some first hand knowledge about the differences in their sound.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Good luck, REB!
> 
> I wish I could sample a bunch of these vintage receivers, just to gain some first hand knowledge about the differences in their sound.


 

  Some are easy to come by.  Haha, there are still plenty of amp/receivers that haven't sky-rocketed in price just yet, besides Kenwood, Onkyo is another.  Aurex, optonica, hitachi, mitsubishi, NEC, Akai, philips and even technics tend to fly under the radar, of course you have to know what you're looking for.


----------



## RexAeterna

i never said anything towards vintage if that's what you mean with this analogy. vintage receivers and amps is all i own and love. especially vintage speakers. just was saying i'll never probably pay personally more then 400 bucks for a marantz receiver.feel there prices are more rediculous than lot of pioneers go for. they are very pretty to look  at and can be nice sounding but not my cup of tea.
  
  Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> the "vintage" argument could be made for wooden boats.  People in fiberglass "chlorox bottles" see me on the lake in a 1952 wooden Chris Craft and wonder why I spend 100+ hours per year on maintenance.  Or, go to an antique boat show and a boat selling for $500 in the 1950s now sells for $35,000 and up perfectly restored.  Yet there is an argument for things vintage: (1) the love of things from the past (2) the look/warmth of the object (3) the harkening back to "when I was a kid" or (4) the stuff was just better made and sounded or performed better back then.
> 
> At least this is the way I see it


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i never said anything towards vintage if that's what you mean with this analogy. vintage receivers and amps is all i own and love. especially vintage speakers. just was saying i'll never probably pay personally more then 400 bucks for a marantz receiver.feel there prices are more rediculous than lot of pioneers go for. they are very pretty to look  at and can be nice sounding but not my cup of tea.


 
   
  I've seen the better Pioneer vintage receivers going for about the same prices, though, if they are in the kind of condition my Marantz is in.  But if you prefer the sound of the Pioneer, that's of course another matter.  Which Pioneer receivers do you favor?  Maybe I will have to try one out if I can find a nice one, and have a little vintage receiver war.  I'm thinking of selling off some of my dedicated headphone amps to fund it...I have a lot of them, and the Marantz 2275 is already impressing me as easily being in the same league as some of them...
   
  I should add: I make no bones about the fact that I like vintage hi-fi for the looks as much as the sound.


----------



## moodyrn

Skylab I know you have limited time with it, but from your impressions so far, which of your headphone amps would you put it on par with?


----------



## Skylab

I need to compare it directly, but when connected to my Van Alstine DAC as the source, it seems to me to be on par with the Meier Concerto in terms of overall sound quality, but with more power available that with the Meier.  I only did a very quick comparison so far, but the only reason I did one at all was I wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy, and that the headphone out of the Marantz was really that good.  IMO, it is, with the T1.  It was less good with the Denon, where I felt the Denon was a little too muddy.  It must be an impedance mismatch, as the sound with the T1 is more on the clean/clear side than the warm side. 
   
  But I really hesitate to say too much when I have just started listening.  Some people believe initial impressions are the most accurate, but I am not one of those people - I prefer to evaluate over several weeks before really deciding how I really feel about the sound if something, in detail, beyond just "it sounds very good" or "it sounds like crap".


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





reb said:


> just made an offer on a sansui tu719, almost totl (the tu919 was ahead of it). Great looking tuner with very good fm capabilities. Let's see whether I get it!


 


  the TU-717 i had sounded sweet the short time i had it. eyes closed on a good jazz broadcast, i swear its sounded like a long bygone turntable i had. its that good! too bad i dont do radio. if i had to keep one, it'll be the TU-9900.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've seen the better Pioneer vintage receivers going for about the same prices, though, if they are in the kind of condition my Marantz is in.  But if you prefer the sound of the Pioneer, that's of course another matter.  Which Pioneer receivers do you favor?  Maybe I will have to try one out if I can find a nice one, and have a little vintage receiver war.  I'm thinking of selling off some of my dedicated headphone amps to fund it...I have a lot of them, and the Marantz 2275 is already impressing me as easily being in the same league as some of them...
> 
> I should add: I make no bones about the fact that I like vintage hi-fi for the looks as much as the sound.


 

 nothing against Marantz plus they hold their value very well so i dont think u'd be losing any even in the short run but for the 600+ smackers u paid for the 2275, i woulda picked up Pioneer SX-1250. its a monsta of 125w rms proportions & dwarfs most receivers i've seen. i hear it sounds pretty good too. heh
   
  ofcos a 'Sui G-22000 would be even better or holy grail of holy grails...da G-33000! last time the beast went thru fleabay, it fetch over $10k+ IIRC. nope i dont think i'd be an owner anytime soon but for those with trust funds, the G33000 pumps out 300w rms per channel! moar.....moar....MOAR....POWERRRRR! LOL


----------



## RexAeterna

i only heard the sx-950 and the sx-1250. both really great sounding units and damn are they pretty to look at in person. that's one thing i have to give pioneer and marantz credit for is that they make killer looking products with amazing sound. also i'm not surprise you enjoy the headphone out of the marantz more or the same. if you want more power or volume you can simply change the resistor's value or plug the headphones directly to back of the speaker outputs with some soldering and modification and you'll have the benefit from the  full force of the speaker's power amp section. not just perfect for othos and electrostats. i have tested out some low impedance dynamic drivers as well and they respond very well out any speaker taps i plug them into. just be a warning. keep volume level set to 0 everytime you turn the amp on to prevent accidental frying of the drivers lol cause these receivers and amps are, are just ''voltage'' sources so they can deliver very large amounts of voltages which will increase also current flow and can potentially damage any speaker or headphone's voice coils you plug into if you don't know what your doing
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've seen the better Pioneer vintage receivers going for about the same prices, though, if they are in the kind of condition my Marantz is in.  But if you prefer the sound of the Pioneer, that's of course another matter.  Which Pioneer receivers do you favor?  Maybe I will have to try one out if I can find a nice one, and have a little vintage receiver war.  I'm thinking of selling off some of my dedicated headphone amps to fund it...I have a lot of them, and the Marantz 2275 is already impressing me as easily being in the same league as some of them...
> 
> I should add: I make no bones about the fact that I like vintage hi-fi for the looks as much as the sound.


----------



## RexAeterna

God... there is times i wish i won the lottery and became filty stinking rich....i can only dream i guess.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> sansui G-33000!


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Good luck, REB!
> 
> I wish I could sample a bunch of these vintage receivers, just to gain some first hand knowledge about the differences in their sound.  This Marantz drives the 600 ohm Beyer T1's so well, it's really quite surprising to me.  Honestly, it makes it kind of hard to justify some of the stand-alone headphone amps I have heard.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think that is because most "good" vintage amp headphones jack actually tapped the Speakers outputs ( with a resistors to dampend sounds).  And they have really good power supply, usually over spec, hence the big heatsink.


----------



## scottiebabie

and thats exactly why i've been on a buying tear lately cos every make & model has its own siggy - to my ears via headphones atleast. infact i've own a few Marantz, Sansuis, Technics, Harman Kardons, Akais and i've settled on the 'Sui AU-517 as the best "headamp" i've heard for my cans & tastes that is.
   
  however im def not done as yet. besides a must-have real vintage tube amp, im also actively looking for a Yami of the rite model & vintage. psssst...tell u guys a secret...certain Yamis have a switch to turn em into true Class A mode of 10-20w!!! gotta have one of those!
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I need to compare it directly, but when connected to my Van Alstine DAC as the source, it seems to me to be on par with the Meier Concerto in terms of overall sound quality, but with more power available that with the Meier.


 
   
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Good luck, REB!
> 
> I wish I could sample a bunch of these vintage receivers, just to gain some first hand knowledge about the differences in their sound.  This Marantz drives the 600 ohm Beyer T1's so well, it's really quite surprising to me.  Honestly, it makes it kind of hard to justify some of the stand-alone headphone amps I have heard.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> and thats exactly why i've been on a buying tear lately cos every make & model has its own siggy - to my ears via headphones atleast. infact i've own a few Marantz, Sansuis, Technics, Harman Kardons, Akais and i've settled on the 'Sui AU-517 as the best "headamp" i've heard for my cans & tastes that is.
> 
> however im def not done as yet. besides a must-have real vintage tube amp, (snip)


 

 Yeah, I figured that the various brands would have their own sound signature.  I'm going to be on the lookout for a nice Pioneer or Sansui - I like the look of several of those.
   
  Give strong consideration to the Fisher X-100 when you are ready for a vintage tube amp - its a real winner.


----------



## mralexosborn

My Akai AP-D2 arrived. Fantastic condition considering how old it is. Any cart/stylus recommendations? I won't buy anything until I test it out once I get a record or two from a local pawn shop but the stylus is very dusty and the cart looks ancient.


----------



## Skylab

That model Akai uses a standard mount cartridge.  That means you have almost infinite choices - what price range can you consider?
   
  My normal recommendation is the Shure M97XE - almost unbeatable for the money.  $55 from J&R Music World.


----------



## mralexosborn

That price is fine. I was thinking 50 or under. Anything a tad less expensive that is worth it? If not then I'll just get the Shure.


----------



## Skylab

The Audio Technica 95E is pretty good, for $50, but I prefer the Shure.


----------



## mralexosborn

I will go ahead and order one once I get a record to try out the current one. Are there any good guides for using and maintaining a turntable? I have never used one, so where to begin?


----------



## Skylab

Cartridge set-up is not hard, but it does require some specific knowledge.  There are some good threads on head-fi which are really helpful there.


----------



## mralexosborn

I was just wondering what is needed to keep a turntable functioning, in general.


----------



## Skylab

Lots of records 

Seriously, as long as that TT works, you need a new cartridge so you don't wreck your records, and the cartridge needs to be set up correctly. Beyond that, then, you will need to replace the stylus every 2,000 hours of playing time or so.


----------



## mralexosborn

Okay, thanks!


----------



## scottiebabie

gonna go checkout a Pioneer SA-7500 after dinner. think i would wanna bring it home if its as nice as the sellers says. cant wait.....


----------



## RexAeterna

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/pio/SA7500.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/pio/SA7500.html&h=545&w=1000&sz=90&tbnid=wg_m2cMiVt2wKM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=149&prev=/images%3Fq%3DPioneer%2BSA-7500&zoom=1&q=Pioneer+SA-7500&usg=__Z6TryDDmiZfvqbdzMPMfHaMWZbY=&sa=X&ei=y9FlTc3EC8Wclgf5oJHrDA&ved=0CD4Q9QEwBw

  she is pretty i mean look at that backside. i would tap that hardcore
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> gonna go checkout a Pioneer SA-7500 after dinner. think i would wanna bring it home if its as nice as the sellers says. cant wait.....


----------



## RexAeterna

i never understood that with lot of people when they explained this. i know with the amps i heard i can instenstly tell if there is a lack of treble,midrange or bass and sub-bass or if there is too much but that have to do with the build of the power amp section and how much torque it has behind it at the frequency spectrum as a whole i personally feel. also how the amp was tuned. most eq-boards on these receivers are eq'ed to be flat from 20hz-20khz also depends on the tone controls i guess since allow different adjustments of -db and +db. i always keep mine balanced in the middle. but i can be wrong. just to me personally how i feel. if something sounds good to my ears and close to what i hear in real life then i'm happy  with it. i have heard dull treble and bright treble before that people speaker of. i just never understood the sound signature aspect of things...sorry for seeming ignorant.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I figured that the various brands would have their own sound signature.


----------



## Skylab

The circuit design of an amp will impact its sound, and as such, the main audio engineers at a company, and the circuits they designed and used, will often lead to a "house sound".


----------



## RexAeterna

i see but reason behind ''solid state'' is to accurately reproduce the frequencies as possible. i think when people mention it sounds like tubes i'm guessing cause of the caps used cause caps act like filters in the amp. i can be wrong. also i know not all tubes sound ''warm'' like how tubes are mentioned when brought up to explain sound of tubes.


----------



## moodyrn

That's very true about all tubes not sounding warm. I have owned some very neutral sounding tube amps. In my experiences, the warmness associated with some(but not all) tube amps isn't from the tubes, but the capacitors used. I've owned solid state amps that were more warm sounding than some of the tube amps I've owned.


----------



## scottiebabie

lookie wot the cat brought in lastnite....
   

   
  just spent the last coupla hrs cleaning & dexoit'in all controls & switches as its was scratchy as a dog on lice (LOL). innards was dusty but is in mucho better condition that what i had originally thought..
   

   
  trafo & ps looks fairly beefy & i was lucky of the controls are visible with easy access...
   

   
  this amp has 2 funky tone controls with dual cutoffs for bass & treble..
   

   
  & a very cool Reverse Stereo to Normal Stereo to Mono to Mono L & Mono R
   

   
  finally in a pose off with the Technics SA-400 receiver ontop
   

   
   
  wont listen to it yet as experience tells me its going to very high harsh in upper freq till the contact cleaner is all dried. then im a gonna have a Pioneer vs Sansui vs Technics vs Marantz faceoff! hehe


----------



## Skylab

Very nice! Looks like a sweet piece. Do tell us how it sounds once you fire it up.


----------



## scottiebabie

LOL not so sure 'bout the nice part - looks pretty ugly in an retro industrial way similar to my 'Sui but the black facia white lettering of the 'Sui blows this Pioneer away atleast in the looks dept. in other ways these 2 are very similarly spec'd 'cept the 'Sui is just another level in build quality. big dual trafos, dual psu. heatsinks, etc..all the way to the output reminds me of Krells & Levinsons. not sure if it means anything but the 'Sui's also heavier by a substantial margin.
   
  did a quickie on the SA-7500 & its sounding very very clean cept for the upper harshness usual in freshly cleaned units. though nice, im still thinking the Pioneer has a steep hill to climb to dethrone the AU-517 as my "headamp" of choice. maybe i'll get a nice set of vintage speakers for this Pioneer to drive


----------



## RexAeterna

that must be it cause i been doing a lot of reading and lot people seem to mention once they changed some caps in their amp or receiver the sound is not the same. also i'm not sure but i heard the ''warmth'' sound comes from a type of harmonic distortion taking place. i have heard warm sound solid states myself. believe or not my old Craig receiver i was given sounds much warmer then my sansui 5000x and supposedly sansui x000 was made to sound tube like. to my ears sounds about as close to neutral to my sansui au-d7 amp but with little bit more of a slightly warm low-end with much more power in the same frequency as well but it is not sloppy or ''loose'' in any way.

 that's of course with my speakers. my headphones each sounds about the same to be percise. just each uses different dropping resistor value giving me more headroom for volume. that's about it. 
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That's very true about all tubes not sounding warm. I have owned some very neutral sounding tube amps. In my experiences, the warmness associated with some(but not all) tube amps isn't from the tubes, but the capacitors used. I've owned solid state amps that were more warm sounding than some of the tube amps I've owned.


----------



## RexAeterna

very smexy unit you got their. good find.
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> lookie wot the cat brought in lastnite....
> 
> 
> just spent the last coupla hrs cleaning & dexoit'in all controls & switches as its was scratchy as a dog on lice (LOL). innards was dusty but is in mucho better condition that what i had originally thought..
> ...


----------



## scottiebabie

picked up a tiny ass bulb for the burnt power light & after mucking round for a 1/2hr or so, i got liftoff! look mom, i can now tell that the pioneer's on. LOL. had to use a higher volt rated bulb as the EE doesnt have the exact spec'd item so its pretty dim but still visible though. bonus is the darn thing should last forever now & its only a $1. nice
   
  got a chance to hookup the "snake" pigtail adapter to the screwy (pun intended) screw-in binding posts, instead of the usual spring-loaded common with vintage amps. listening to the pioneer rite now via the HE5-LE direct of speaker taps, i must say im impressed. its sounding very very good. i'd venture to say its in the vicinity as my reference 'Sui AU-517 with only a few caveats. mids on the pioneer seems a smidgen more forward & highs are slighty tizzier ( or is more extended - not sure). otherwise both amps are much similar than dissimilar.
   
  so far, i prefer matching the 517 with the HE5-LEs only cos the hifimans arent exactly dark & i dont need the extra energy up top even if its only slightly. im sure the pioneer will go better with the HD650 thats arriving shortly.
   
  i can see why these pioneers are so desired. they are very good indeed & are in the same level as the better 'Sui's. afterall the 'Sui AU-517/717 duo are said by some at Audiokarma to be amongst the best vintage integrateds ever built. the pioneer offers a very slight variation in sound siggy as all & to my ears & with the HE5-LEs offa direct speaker taps, they arent inferior to the 'Suis. & i rate the 'Sui x17 better than the rest of the bunch that i own or owned (just sold the Marantz SR6000 lastnite as the offers too good to refuse).
   
  so guys, keep ya eyes & ears peeled & purked for these Pioneer SA-x500/x800/x900 series, they are very good indeed & usually fly under the radar of their other brethens. a great deals to be had - goodstuff!


----------



## mralexosborn

I finally got some records to try out my Akai AP-D2. I am thoroughly impressed. The sound does have lots of pops and clicks BUT the rest of the sound sounds on par if not better than my uDac, IMO. 
  The uDac sounds very dry in comparison. The cart is old. Pickering NP/AC. It was all the rage in the 60's I believe. I fear that all my time will go into my TT now once I get some records and a new cart. Maybe it is the amp that sounds so great? 
   
  In the long run is it better to get a better cartridge or a better TT? Also when I am ready to upgrade, what vintage TT can I get for around $200?


----------



## Skylab

A new cartridge is really critical.  You could easily be damaging the records playing them with a worn needle.  If you got something like the Shure M97XE, that's a good enough cartridge to be used on a $200 vintage TT later.  Do that first, before getting a new TT.
   
  Or if you are uncomfortable doing the cartridge setup, here is a nice vintage TT/Cartridge combo:
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-P-750-Direct-Drive-Auto-Turntable-Ortofon-Cart-/140516385014
   
  I actually can vouch for this seller, as I just bought an Optonica ST-7305 integrated amp from him which is VERY sweet!  Here is a little teaser on that:
   

   
  This amp is a heavy beast, and the headphone out drove the HE-6 to deafening levels without breaking a sweat!  Just got it in yesterday so have only begun to mess around with it.  Love the LED power meters, though


----------



## mralexosborn

Is the M97xe $20 better than the $38 AT95e? Also I was trying to setup the counterweight on my TT. The guides I read said it should be floating level with the record. When I do this I get lots of fuzziness in the sounds. If I set the counterweight (thus lowering the needle side of the arm) it sounds better, much better. Is this a sign that the stylus is worn? Is it worth betting a used cartridge? http://cgi.ebay.com/SHURE-M97xE-Audiophile-Hi-Fi-Phono-Cartridge-Metal-Box-/120687368625?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c198719b1#ht_1793wt_1139


----------



## JadeEast

I think you may need to re-read a bit more about cartridge set up or find another guide.
  Balancing the tone arm is the first step, the second is adding the appropriate downward force for the cartridge suspension.


----------



## scottiebabie

isnt optonica made by panasonic? looks very german ergo correct functional stylish - love those teardrop control knobs.  IIRC i think braun also had an amp (made by the japs too) thats low profile in that similar vein too. u gotta let us know how it compares with the 2275 u just brought home. infact Rob, it would be great if u could do a more detailed comparo of the headouts of your present vintage amps & the 'dedicated' headamps in your possession or u've heard.
   
  i had someone drop by after spending sometime at a specialized headphone store called The Headphone Bar listening to Icon HDP. i 'intro'd' him to my buddie Mr.Technics & he was floored by how much the vintage Technics SA-400 headout is cleaner, clearer, extended & overall better than the $500 HDP. he's planning on getting a HD6x0 soon & he wants my Technics as 'headamp' LOL!


----------



## Skylab

As I understand it, Optonica was a high end moniker for Sharp. This amp is certainly VERY high end in terms of build quality. It's really very impressive.

I definitely plan to put down some thoughts on the relative quality difference between vintage amps and receivers versus modern dedicated headphone amps. I listened to the Marantz and this Optonica for extended periods today, and I continued to be very impressed with both. 

The really sick thing about the Optonica - I paid $100. Given the way it's built, and how it sounds, and that it includes a very nice phono stage too, it's an absolutely obscene bargain. You can't buy most LOD cables for $100! And here is a speaker amp, headphone amp, phono amp....

I have been hip to vintage tube gear and vintage vinyl for quite a while, but had never considered vintage solid state gear until recently, and I have to say, with a little research and a little luck, it may be one of the last really great bargain areas of hi-fi and head-fi...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The really sick thing about the Optonica - I paid $100. Given the way it's built, and how it sounds, and that it includes a very nice phono stage too, it's an absolutely obscene bargain. You can't buy most LOD cables for $100! And here is a speaker amp, headphone amp, phono amp....
> 
> I have been hip to vintage tube gear and vintage vinyl for quite a while, but had never considered vintage solid state gear until recently, and I have to say, with a little research and a little luck, it may be one of the last really great bargain areas of hi-fi and head-fi...


 

 i know but......shhhhhhhhshhhhh! dont want the 'word' to spread too quickly as us vintage gearheads still wanna our fill of the cheap goodstuff! its insane how much one can get for less than the price of a boutique ipod LOD! & dont forget too, these things will drive speakers too............loud! & the tuner on yr Marantz's not exactly chopped liver either! LOL


----------



## Skylab

No joke, I spent some time tonight listening to FM with the lights out, just staring at the lights on the Marantz...felt like I was 13 again...LOL...

The Tuner on the Marantz is outstanding.


----------



## mralexosborn

My 2220B's tuner also sounds fantastic but gets very few stations. 
   
  Is it possible for the tracking force "dial" to be broken on my TT? I set it to be balanced and turning the "dial" doesn't change anything. Also it is impossible to turn the counterweight without turning the tracking force "dial". Argh.


----------



## scottiebabie

sounds like either your antenna's not hooked up, or u live in a radio deadzone or your tuner trackings wayy off if u can only get a few stations. im not sure what u mean by "tracking force dial" but its not impossible for the strings (yes the whole tunning shebangs run off strings connect to the gyro dialknob) to be snagged somewhere. i'd take off the case & have a peek inside - errr power off & unplugg'd ofcos LOL. u can easily trace the path where the strings run & inspect each section for any snags or wateva. 
   
  also search online for service manuls - hifiengine is a good start. its not impossible to adjust the tracking to specs. other than that, a shop will be your best bet but it wont be cheap. goodluck


----------



## mralexosborn

I was talking about the tracking force dial on the TT. I am just in a radio dead zone. But yes, when I opened it up I saw the strings and the gears, I giggled a bit. 
   
  I can't find a manual for the AP-D2. Sad, sad. Maybe I just need a tracking force scale to help?
  Just to clarify, the tracking force scale would read 0 with just the counterweight set and should read equal to the tracking force dial right?
   
  I tried balancing it again but the record plays better when the cart side is heavier. Why is this? Bad stylus?


----------



## mralexosborn

Has anybody heard of this cart? AT95e Special Edition. Should I try it?
   
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/87358


----------



## Skylab

mralexosborn, as much as I love to discuss Vinyl, this is too off topic for a thread about vintage amps and receivers, so I don't want to answer any more questions about TT set-up in this thread.  Please make a new thread for that - lots of people with great TT knowledge will help.
   
  Back OT, I made an offer to a local hi-fi store on a Pioneer SX-950 - they wanted $370, and after some research that seemed WAY high to me, but since I could just pick the thing up, I stretched and offered $300.  Amazingly, they declined. 
   
  I want to get one more vintage receiver to compare to the Marantz, which will likely be either a Sansui or Pioneer...but I have to get the right deal...


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> mralexosborn, as much as I love to discuss Vinyl, this is too off topic for a thread about vintage amps and receivers, so I don't want to answer any more questions about TT set-up in this thread.  Please make a new thread for that - lots of people with great TT knowledge will help.
> 
> Back OT, I made an offer to a local hi-fi store on a Pioneer SX-950 - they wanted $370, and after some research that seemed WAY high to me, but since I could just pick the thing up, I stretched and offered $300.  Amazingly, they declined.
> 
> I want to get one more vintage receiver to compare to the Marantz, which will likely be either a Sansui or Pioneer...but I have to get the right deal...


 


 Great idea.  Now that I've got a Marantz 2216 on its way, thanks to this thread, will be looking for a vintage turntable to go with it
   
  How about someone starting a thread on "dedicated source components" forum or somewhere else where we can follow turntables and cartridges and leave this thread to only amps/receivers??
   
  OK just started a thread on Dedicated Source Components.  Have at it


----------



## mralexosborn

Sorry guys. 
  I love my Marantz.


----------



## scottiebabie

Rob one cant really call themselves a vintage gearhead unless u own or aspire to own one the golden era great integrated esp if sonics is prime. 'Suis & Pioneer made some great integrated that competes with stuff made today even & certainly within its price point & i'd say quite a few times higher.
   
  if build quality is your thang -its mine- then the Sansui AU-517/717 & AU-819/919 will surely dazzle u. my little 517 only pumps out a measly 65w rms but the over engineering built in is astounding. i think its about a hair (ok ok may a hair & a toenail too) short of what u mite see on Krells & Levinsons but its very impressive nontheless. the ol ticker misses a thump each time i open her up.
   
  if a little warmer nostalgia is your thing, then the higher 'Sui AU-x500/x900 (9500 is my fav) is again something to behold & best of all, its still affordable....for now. 
   
  if radio is ya thing, not very many current tuners today can compete with the golden 'Sui tuners - TU-717/TU-919/TU9900 or the ultimate TU-X1 with the latter models still affordable, again for now. their performances rivals the best magnum dynalabs of today & yesterday.
   
  if u're really serious about being a collector even more so than a connoiseur, then wait for the bigboys Pioneer SX-1050/1080/1250, Sansui G-8080/9090, G-9x00 as they are still relatively affordable. ofcos if u have the dosh to burn, the really big boys SX-1980/G22000/G33000 are musthavs.
   
  thats what i would do if i were u since u already have so much gear. wait walk til u find the rite ones cos then, they're keepers with ever escalating value (in more ways than one LOL).


----------



## Skylab

Awesome, Scottie, thanks. I will keep my eyes open for some of those. I already had my eyes on the 8080/9090, and the SX-1050/1250, so I am not too far off the right track. I want to get one more killer vintage piece - integrated or receiver, it doesn't really matter, since I already have the Marantz when I want to listen to FM (which until I got the Marantz was pretty seldom).

Appreciate the advice!


----------



## scottiebabie

no worries S'Labman im dinking around with all these lower end stuff cos im trying to find the ultimate "headamp" to drive my cans cos i know which drives my speakers best. unlike me u already own (or have owned) quite a buncha fine headgear so i dont see the point of u dinking around with the lower end stuff. sure u may pay more for the topend but they're usually prized collectables in their own right & not only highly desireable & hold their value, they will only appreciate. 
   
  usually but not always, the topend are showcases for each mfgrs technology & so should sound the best of its ilk. sidessss theres nothing like owning monsta amps/receivers & being able to ermmm describe ....shuck it...BOAST of its 150w - 300w rms output! & if u think your 2275s nice, put it beside one of these monstas & u get an idea how puny it is. these monstas are like 1.5 times the size with hugh heatsinks & weigh inexcess of 80lbs. infact the G-33000 comes in 2pieces & weigh about 115lbs total! i dare anyone to not do a double take when they see it!!!
   
  and thats why we wanna own MONSTA amps & receivers folks! O & the fact that it sucks 1000w at full output only adds to its street cred. god i lov it!


----------



## REB

This thread is bad! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 for my wallet... Just made an offer on a mint kenwood kt7002 amp and ku7001 tuner... they looked very good and the amp's build quality (and sound quality) is supposed to be extraordinary.


----------



## Skylab

last night I just missed a mint AU 717. looking at the pics, you are right - built quality i4 ama7ing on that!


----------



## moodyrn

I've missed a few marantz, pioneers, and sansui's. Starting this thread was a bad idea. I really hope I get lucky in a thrift store soon. If I don't think my wallet is going to take a hit real soon!!


----------



## REB

Got the kenwood set... here's a pic (sound of crying wallet in the background):


----------



## moodyrn

very nice!!


----------



## RexAeterna

your right about the collecting part but i usually feel bad buying all these nice amps and receiver and not enough speakers to go around! my place is not very big either and i love big speakers. also it comes to it more then watts for the power of the receiver or amp. i heard some amps that were over 100wpc  pioneers not sound sonically near as good to a 40wpc kenwood or sansui. i say kenwood,sony,hitachi,technics and sansui made some of the best stuff when it came to sonic quality.i like marantz too but most marantz gear seems too much on the bass heavy side of things to me and be perfect for bassheads. it is in fact my opinion tho and everyone is different.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Rob one cant really call themselves a vintage gearhead unless u own or aspire to own one the golden era great integrated esp if sonics is prime. 'Suis & Pioneer made some great integrated that competes with stuff made today even & certainly within its price point & i'd say quite a few times higher.
> 
> if build quality is your thang -its mine- then the Sansui AU-517/717 & AU-819/919 will surely dazzle u. my little 517 only pumps out a measly 65w rms but the over engineering built in is astounding. i think its about a hair (ok ok may a hair & a toenail too) short of what u mite see on Krells & Levinsons but its very impressive nontheless. the ol ticker misses a thump each time i open her up.
> 
> ...


----------



## RexAeterna

your gonna be very happy. i love vintage kenwood. also make sure to buy some books on radio electronics or electronics in general just in case. another thing about these old receivers/amps is you learn a lot about electronics and DIY skills. not saying you'll have problems with it. not at all. these things are built to last forever if taken cared of well. even after 30+ years these old amps are still out-performing modern gear and running strong. just it's great to study up on it just in case cause it can be lot cheaper doing things on your own than paying a tech to do the same job. 
  Quote: 





reb said:


> Got the kenwood set... here's a pic (sound of crying wallet in the background):


----------



## scottiebabie

nice snag REBman! gotta love the flashy silver with woodie treatment. hope it didnt cost u an arm & leg over thar them dutch hills. LOL. be sure to let us know how it sounds ya.
   
  i too have a handle on a coupla baby amps & am in deep thoughts considering picking em up or not. one's baby Pioneer XS-450 receiver & the other's a Kennie too, Kenwood KA-3700 integrated. both are little 20watters but more than enuff for me to utilize as 'headamps. this sure is a fun hobby 
   
  O & theres a Pioneer SX-1050 waiting for an owner too but it is a little pricey. if only i can find the honeyed words to convince the missus.......


----------



## tnmike1

Anybody have any love for the SET amps?? Single End Triode?  Put out 15w. max using big 300 tubes (THink Cary 300 SEI) yet clean and efficient enough to power Klipsch horn-loaded speakers.
   
  I know Cary makes them as did McIntosh I believe.  Wonderful, full-range tube sound altho upper end of the price ranges


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> last night I just missed a mint AU 717. looking at the pics, you are right - built quality i4 ama7ing on that!


 

 too bad u missed it. im sure u'll absolutely love it as ilubma517. if im not incorrect, i do believe the AU-517/717 duo are the only amps made by Sansui with dual trafos with nothing shared cept input power source. the 819/919 are also a similar dual mono design but they sports a single larger trafo instead. u better get one soon before the price explodes skyhigh on them. i too made a bid on a 717 amp/tuner combo lastweek but was declined whereas the same offered price woulda been swooped up lastyear. surprizing indeed.


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> yet clean and efficient enough to power Klipsch horn-loaded speakers.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





tnmike1 said:


> Anybody have any love for the SET amps?? Single End Triode?  Put out 15w. max using big 300 tubes (THink Cary 300 SEI) yet clean and efficient enough to power Klipsch horn-loaded speakers.
> 
> I know Cary makes them as did McIntosh I believe.  Wonderful, full-range tube sound altho upper end of the price ranges


 

 lov em - cant get em for a reasonable sane price in acceptable condition esp vintage. Mac stuff is crazy money & im not sure if Cary amps started in the 60s & 70s. the 60s Marantzs & Sansui tubes fetch large & i mean LARGE coin now & thats if they even come up forsale. even the Fishers, Dynacos, Eicos etc..etc.. arent going for pocket change no more.
   
  but yaaa the old vintage tubies represent the classic tube siggy with sweet liquid lush mids & woolly bottoms & rounded highs. klipschs were designed for those kinda amps. which talking about Klipschs, theres a LaScalla II & a drop dead La Belle for sale in my neigborhood. wish i can afford them & more specifically, have a cathedral hall sized living room to let them sing.


----------



## mralexosborn

The lamps came in for my Marantz. It looks gorgeous now. I prefer the incandescent over the unnatural blue LED's.


----------



## melomaniac

well, the Outlaw RR2150 looks like a "vintage" integrated/receiver...
   
  http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





melomaniac said:


> well, the Outlaw RR2150 looks like a "vintage" integrated/receiver...
> 
> http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html


 
  looks like duck walks like a .... stylish art deco kinda duck but me thinks it dont quack like a duck. LOL. seriously though price is more than fair for 100w @8ohm output but im guessing this the "new age " wattage instead of the old school wattage which brings it to a more honest 60w. which btw is still very decent for only $599. now someone go buy one & tell us how it sounds


----------



## francisdemarte

Those that replaced the lamps in the Marantz recievers with LEDs, where is the best place to get them?


----------



## peter braun

Glad to see a thread with a focus on vintage gear. My audiophile interests began with headphone related products but gravitated to vintage equipment over the last several years. I have owned various receivers, pre/amps, integrateds, tuners,reel to reels, speakers, and turntables from Accuphase, ADS, Ampex, Concept, Kenwood, Marantz, McIntosh, and Sansui. I love the warm, punchy sound of vintage gear along with the heft. Now with kids in the house most of my collection has been either sold or packed away in storage. McIntosh is my all-time favorite and nearest to my heart, but of course pricey even for early models. I think the Marantz 22xx series receivers provide the best bang for the buck in terms of sound, build quality, and aesthetics for those looking to pick some reasonably priced vintage gear. The late 70s era Sansuis like those mentioned above are also very solid pieces (_literally_), but I always found the headphone jacks to be a little noisy and the amps overall do not possess the rich warmth of Mac or Marantz gear.


----------



## mralexosborn

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> Those that replaced the lamps in the Marantz recievers with LEDs, where is the best place to get them?


 


http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=2


----------



## scottiebabie

there's no Marantz specific LEDs cos there wasnt any back then. so as far as LEDs go, get the rite size & color that u need - any electronics parts store will carry it. then u step it down to the correct voltage (prolly 8v or perhaps even 12v but more likely 8v from my experience) with a series resistor. 200ohm for 8v if i remember correctly but the store should have a chart. then u solder everything together & voila u got lights. LEDs should last a lifetime.
   
  alternatively take the burnt bulb & get the closest match in size & voltage. again they should sell generic bulbs at any elec parts store. u can always go with higher voltage bulbs & it'll just be dimmer. i personally like it dim with the added bonus of the bulb lasting a very long time.
   
  where i am, LED bulbs are about $1 each & a 200ohm (or whatever) resistor is $0.15-0.25 each & an filament bulb is also about $1 too. hard parts excess to the darn things. goodluck


----------



## melomaniac

I've had one for about four years or so. It doesn't sound anything like what this thread mostly features, obviously. But it powers my Magnepan MMGs competently, and has a dedicated sub out (Outlaw knows from subwoofing) and that helps the MMGs with movies. Stereophile did a nice review of this a while ago.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> looks like duck walks like a .... stylish art deco kinda duck but me thinks it dont quack like a duck. LOL. seriously though price is more than fair for 100w @8ohm output but im guessing this the "new age " wattage instead of the old school wattage which brings it to a more honest 60w. which btw is still very decent for only $599. now someone go buy one & tell us how it sounds


----------



## scottiebabie

my Senn HD650 came in today but other than a sneakpeek, i didnt get to listen to it till now. tried with the 'Sui 517, Pioneer SA-7500 & Technics SA-400. based on listening to all these amps before with my other cans, my intuition tells me that the Technics sound siggy will pair well with the Senns & boy was i right. the Technics HD650 combo's sounding seriously good & these Senns arent any where dark or even just warm but very nicely balanced. this is with stock cable ofcos.
   
  its just missing that slight clarity & resolution compared with the HE5-LE 'Sui517 combo but its a close second. very nice for a $25 amp. heh


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hi guys,
   
  earlier in another topic where we were comparing the DT990/600 and the Senns HD600 (300 ohm) I stated that with the A1 amp the Senns sounded way better then the DT990s, as well in the bass compartment.
  Of course everyone declared me as crazy but that is what I was hearing.
   
  So tonight I decided to use my 1991 Kenwood receivers headphone out (Laptop to Dac to Receiver) and the DT990 (and HD600) changed completely. There were huge amounts of base I never ever heard with the A1 amp and it seemd to power the DT990 way better then the dedicated amp. The dedicated amp does win in musicality but the Receiver has the power and bass. So a mix of both would be perfect.
   
  Now for my question. Is it possible a 91 Kenwood Receiver (KR-A5040) powers my headphones better as the Maverick A1?
   
  A1: Maximum headphone impedance: 600 ohms & Headphone output power: 300mW ~ 1000mW)
  Kenwood: I couldn't find any info on the HP out
   
  Isn't a dedicated (tube) amp supposed to at least deliver the same amounts of power and bass to my headphones? Or is the Maverick A1 just "worthless"?
   
  Thanks


----------



## tnmike1

Playing with my newly-aquired Marantz 2216 and am using in an area with virtually no FM reception.  Can get nothing at all, and only one AM station.  So FM antenna is in order.  Any ideas for something without breaking the bank?  I think I'm about 40 miles away from the closest radio station if that helps


----------



## livewire

Probably a cheap "T" shaped dipole strung up on the wall would do the trick.
  That's what I use with my Marantz 2275 and the reception is golden.
  Then again, i am only ~15 miles away from most transmitters in San Diego.
   
  At least it will bring in a few stations. If you wanna get fancy (and pay more)
  a roof mount TV type antenna with FM capability would do it.


----------



## Skylab

Many years ago I played around a LOT with antennas for FM.  Got all sorts of powered ones, the Goddard, and quite a few others.  Bottom line - a folded dipole, which is cheap as dirt, is the best way to go if you don't have a rooftop antenna, which is if course by FAR the best, but also by FAR the most expensive and complex to deal with. 
   
  I get great FM reception with a folded dipole, but I live in an area with very strong FM reception.  My biggest problem is multipath.  My Marantz 2275's multipath meter setting proved very useful in that regard in positioning the folded dipole from my favorite station.


----------



## tnmike1

Thanks for the tips.  WIll go to my local Radio Shack and see if I can get a dipole antenna


----------



## scottiebabie

i use a 12ft lamp cord i had lying around split in 3-4ft at the other end. granted i dont live in a radio deadzone but its seem to work very well. some jazz & classic broadcasts i receive are not bad at all. the low signal to noise ratio doesnt encourage critical listening but i do enjoying while working at the workstation. good enuff for me
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  @ultrainferno it is very possible that your Kenwood receiver powers your high impedance Beyers & Senns as well if not even better than the Maverick headamp. vintage amps headphone outs are designed for such cans & so should sound excellent. that said not all vintage amps headouts sound good much like the amp itself as it depends on the make model & condition of said amp. also amp - headphone synergy plays a large part too.


----------



## Mochan

I've not heard the Kenwood in question but I wouldn't be surprised if it can drive headphones, or a specific headphone, better than the A1. Dedicated headphone amps are great but the "dedicated headphone circuitry" advantage is bullocks IMO. My Marantz easily beat out all the other headphone amps I have tried. 
  
  Quote: 





ultrainferno said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> earlier in another topic where we were comparing the DT990/600 and the Senns HD600 (300 ohm) I stated that with the A1 amp the Senns sounded way better then the DT990s, as well in the bass compartment.
> Of course everyone declared me as crazy but that is what I was hearing.
> ...


----------



## Skylab

I decided that the headphone driving capability of the Marantz 2275 is of high enough quality that I got rid of my Meier Concerto. I knew I wouldn't ever use it again, as good as it is. I mostly listen to headphones via the Leben CS300XS, which is better than the Marantz, but the Marantz is really astonishingly good as a headphone amp, and is all the solid state headphone amp I will ever need.


----------



## REB

O wow, that's quite a statement! Is your Marantz hooked up to other sources (except FM that is)?
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I decided that the headphone driving capability of the Marantz 2275 is of high enough quality that I got rid of my Meier Concerto. I knew I wouldn't ever use it again, as good as it is. I mostly listen to headphones via the Leben CS300XS, which is better than the Marantz, but the Marantz is really astonishingly good as a headphone amp, and is all the solid state headphone amp I will ever need.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





reb said:


> O wow, that's quite a statement! Is your Marantz hooked up to other sources (except FM that is)?


 

 Absolutely.  I have my older model Audio By Van Alstine tube-hybrid DAC connected to it (fed both by iPod>Cambridge Audio digital dock and a Denon CDP), as well as my Denon DP-59L TT (all of which live in my office).


----------



## REB

I just received my Kenwood amp and tuner and although they are far from the pristine state they were supposed to be in (dirty on the outside, urgent deoxing needed, some push buttons won't stick in the on position etc), the headphone out is something else. The tuner needs a cleaning (and an antenna!), so I couldn't really use it to judge sound quality, but I just hooked my hifiman 602 up to the aux input and am listening through the headphone out to my k500s. The sound is very, very controlled and tight (in a good way), it sounds as if some told the hifiman (which I really like btw) to stand up and pay attention. It's detailed, spacious, lighter than the darkish hifiman and very, very, very tight, which may have something to do with the tons over overcapacity the kenwood has (ka 7002).
   
  I'm putting it through the paces with my favorite music:
   
  1. tord gustavsen trio - where breathing starts: darkish, good detail, intimate, but missing something in the bass texturing
   
  2. lisa ekdahl - it had to be you: feisty, spacious, lots of detail and very much alive!
   
  3. stacey kent - i'm old-fashioned: musical, alive, darkish but it works. this is the warmth of a tube amp, including the bass bottom giving out at times
   
  4. nicolaus harnoncourt - mozart requiem, dies irae: this sounded crappy, until I noticed, the k500 plug was not entirely in (...). Fantastic! It plays this very impressive part with authority and oomph. I do notice each genre needs slight adjusting of the bass and treble knobs and tumbling switches. Happy to oblige and do some fiddling though.
   
  5. julie london - laura: this song starts with just julie singing, no instruments. Wonderfully spacious and warm. Then bass and guitar set in and it only gets better. This amp needs deoxit, but sounds darned good.
   
  6. glenn gould - goldberg variations: the glenn gould test - will i hear the every important humming in the background? Answer is a resounding yes. Detail and musicality are in the house, ladies and gentlemen.
   
  Summing up, I need to clean the amp. but is has potential. Lots of juice and a very nice, warm house sound.


----------



## burgunder

I guess all this leaves the question, whether you can find "modern" integrated amps or receivers(which i doubt) other than the Leben, that will have drive headphones just as good as these vintage amps does.
   
  It would be a bit more convenient.


----------



## Skylab

There are for sure some current production integrated amps that have good headphone capabilities, but many current production integrated amps are pretty expensive. 

My guess is that most surround receivers, if they even have a headphone out, would not have a very good one, because they already have SO many other priorities. But I have no evidence for this theory.

Still, I bought that killer 80's Optonica integrated for $100. anything close to that in quality you could buy today would be way over $1K.


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are for sure some current production integrated amps that have good headphone capabilities, but many current production integrated amps are pretty expensive.
> 
> My guess is that most surround receivers, if they even have a headphone out, would not have a very good one, because they already have SO many other priorities. But I have no evidence for this theory.


 


  
   I have no evidence either, but I have the same suspicion. Let's not forget though that most of the major manufacturers are still producing budget integrated amps. I can attest that Marantz's PM5003 and Cambridge Audio's A340SE are very nice with headphones. Pioneer's A109 is supposed to have a good headphone out. NAD and Rotel are still steaming aling with multiple budget integrateds. You don't need to rely on vintage gear with leaking caps and blackened resistors; there's plenty of current stuff worth investigating.


----------



## moodyrn

Usually that is the case. I have three home theater receivers. In two of them, the headphone out is an afterthought. But now I'm thinking maybe the flagship receivers may be an exception( or at least some of them). I recently purchased onkyo's latest flagship; the nr5800. The headphone out is extremely good. One of the best solid state headphone amps I've heard. It even has enough juice to drive the he-6. I was really surprised at how good it sounded. But it is almost a 3000.00 receiver, so I guess the headphone out should be pretty good. But out of all the home theater receivers I've owned over the years, it's the only one.


----------



## pp312

With regard to the Onkyo, I have an Onkyo a-9555 integrated and unusually it uses an op amp based separate amp for headphones. It appears this same HP amp is used in all high end Onkyo amps, so it's almost certainly the same as yours. The sound is indeed excellent; in fact I'm trying to get some subjective impressions on the HP performance of Onkyo amps in another thread. Regarding the circuit, it uses an NE5532 op amp with discrete output stage and appears to be based on the Earl Eaton HP amp, if you want to Google it (you'll probably understand it better than I do). A previous thread had one poster comparing the 9555 with his $750 GS head amp and being unable to hear much if any difference.
   
  I'd be interested in hearing any further comments you might have on the nr5800 with headphones.
   
  *The NR5800 has a list price here in Oz of $5,999!
   
  Edit: I managed to locate the circuit diagram.


----------



## BmWr75

New to me Sansui 7000, mint condition.  Sold only to military out of PXs (I think).  Similar to the Sansui Eight that was sold to the public.  Headphone out sounds good.  This receiver came in the original box with the owners manual, service manual and laminated illustration of how to connect it up to speakers, sources, etc.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice! Looks like it's in great shape. Amazing how clean some of these vintage receivers are.


----------



## PhaedraCorruption

My current setup.


----------



## sling5s

I used to have a vintage Marantz.  Headphone out was a little grainy.  I currently have the Setton RS220, much smoother.  Almost tube like.  It has a thick and full midrange. 
  I preferred it to many of my past dedicated desktop headphone amplifiers.


----------



## wualta

Has anyone tried Panasonic's now-discontinued line of receivers with digital amps [models SA-XR##]?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> I used to have a vintage Marantz.  Headphone out was a little grainy.  I currently have the Setton RS220, much smoother.  Almost tube like.  It has a thick and full midrange.
> I preferred it to many of my past dedicated desktop headphone amplifiers.


 


  There is no grain at all from the headphone out of my Marantz 2275.  I was surprised how clean it was - very surprised.  But with vintage stuff I am sure it varies a lot not just from model to model, but even sample to sample.


----------



## googleborg

might be because it's a digital amp?  i think they explode or something if you try to attach headphones in a conventional manner 'cos of separate grounds   nice of them to provide the socket though rather than blather on about 'simplifying' their amp.
  
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> With regard to the Onkyo, I have an Onkyo a-9555 integrated and unusually it uses an op amp based separate amp for headphones.


----------



## linuxid10t

I love how you zero in on the fan setup... XD


----------



## REB

Look what the postmen brought... in their original boxes nonetheless.

   
  And with the original styrofoam!
   

   
  The amp
   

   
  the tuner and amp together.
   

   
  They work, but they need cleaning and some revision. Sound good though! Very powerful and smooth.


----------



## Skylab

Most excellent, REB!


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





googleborg said:


> might be because it's a digital amp?  i think they explode or something if you try to attach headphones in a conventional manner 'cos of separate grounds   nice of them to provide the socket though rather than blather on about 'simplifying' their amp.


 

 Well, I think it's actually because it's Class D--same as T amp in that you can't common the grounds. It IS digital, however, which is very handy in terms of fine adjustment of the remote volume control. The sound is so clean and smooth you have to think that any amp that departed from it, even in terms of providing more detail, was somehow adding something that wasn't supposed to be there.


----------



## RexAeterna

that sansui looks very lovely. yea sansui was popular brand among the military. during the 70's and 80's that's all military own oversees cause the soldiers got a killer discount for hi-fi sansui equipment. most popular among them i believe is what i own is the sansui 5000 series(was 3 model.5000,5000A,5000X). 
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> New to me Sansui 7000, mint condition.  Sold only to military out of PXs (I think).  Similar to the Sansui Eight that was sold to the public.  Headphone out sounds good.  This receiver came in the original box with the owners manual, service manual and laminated illustration of how to connect it up to speakers, sources, etc.


----------



## googleborg

i've not yet used a class D/T amp 
  
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Well, I think it's actually because it's Class D--same as T amp in that you can't common the grounds. It IS digital, however, which is very handy in terms of fine adjustment of the remote volume control. The sound is so clean and smooth you have to think that any amp that departed from it, even in terms of providing more detail, was somehow adding something that wasn't supposed to be there.


----------



## REB

Just gave my Kenwood ka7002 a thorough cleaning and many of the problems I heard (hiss, crackling, disappearing channels) have disappeared. Been listening to Black Moses by Isaac Hayes. It's the perfect vintage sound for a perfectly recorded 70s album.


----------



## REB

Now listening to Julie London (Her Name Is Julie 2) on which she is only accompanied by bass and guitar. The guitar is something special through the Kenwood. It sounds like I've never heard it sound before. There's a very metallic quality to it, but in a very good way. There's is also a spaciousness to this recording that my other amps never quite picked up. There is a hint of sibilance, just a hint, it doesn't really become sibilant.
   
  I tried my esw10jpns straight out of the Kenwood, but that wasn't a good idea at all. They sounded terrible. Congested, dark, dull. Probably because the impedance of the Kenwood is much higher or because the esw10jpns can't deal with that much juice. The k500 flourishes, though.


----------



## JadeEast

Quote: 





reb said:


> Just gave my Kenwood ka7002 a thorough cleaning and many of the problems I heard (hiss, crackling, disappearing channels) have disappeared. Been listening to Black Moses by Isaac Hayes. It's the perfect vintage sound for a perfectly recorded 70s album.


 


  I hope you're at least looking at the vinyl albums massive gatefold. That one is a classic example of what LP artwork can be.
  PS. The Kenwood looks very sweet.


----------



## 3602

Just saw this thread, so.
  Has a Lloyd's H430. Surely a rebadge, Elna and STK080 innards. No FM stereo but the indicator bulb may be bust (some receivers won't go into FM stereo because of a single bust bulb). Whole thing drifted slightly. Was my headphone amp for a long time.


----------



## sling5s

Can someone help me?  Are my ears not developed or refined enough?
  I have had some good amps: Woo Audio 6 upgraded, Corda Symphony, RSA X-7, Nuforce HDP and many other portable amps but I keep coming back to my Setton Vintage Amp.
  It has a fuller, thicker, warmer midrange, wide spacious soundstage and more bass than any other amp.  In comparison, it makes dedicated SS headphone amps sound thin, flat and cold.
   
  Beside maybe tube amps, does anyone prefer their vintage amps to dedicated SS headphone amps?  Maybe its just me and my lack of golden ears.
  Should I try Audio GD C-2 amp?  Or will I regret it and prefer my old vintage amp?


----------



## pp312

There's nothing wrong with your ears. Many people perfer their vintage amps to expensive dedicateds, and not just vintage amps--many of us prefer even modern integrateds to dedicated amps. They have to be well designed, of course. Speaker amps generally, and vintage speaker amps in particularly, do give a warmer, friendlier sound than dedicateds, but sometimes at the expense of a looser bass. It's horses for courses.


----------



## Wenger

I have a Marantz 2252b receiver sitting around, do you think it will do good as a headphone amplifier?
   
   
  Also, I still haven't settled on what headphones I'm going to use with it but was thinking of the Beyer dt990 pros for an open headphone with bass, but I heard that there is too much treble with the dt990's. If I used the treble controls on the Marantz to turn down the treble do you think that would help?


----------



## pp312

Try your Marantz and see. There's no technical reason why it shouldn't be able to drive anything.
   
  I don't know the Beyers, but I've also heard they're trebley and certainly the graph below indicates that. Yes, you could use the treble control but it won't compensate for the large peak as it will have a turnover frequency (the point at which it starts to roll off the treble) at around 2khz whereas the peak centres on 9khz. Better to buy a phone with a smoother response like the Sennheiser HD600/650 and then use the treble control to add a touch of treble, as I do--but just a touch. Tone controls are best avoided if possible, but they can still be very useful.


----------



## scottiebabie

dude dont know if ya yanking our collective chains or ya serious but im gonna play along & take u for real. granted i havent heard a whole lot of headamps or any of the highend stuff eg.B22, Audio Gd Pheonix, etc etc but of all that i've heard, my vintage amps pawn them all...for peanuts to the dollar. so much so that i've even built myself a little custom voltage divider series of boutique resistors (kiwames FWIW) so i could power my cans directly from the main amp out ie.speaker outs. & yes to my ears, it sounds better thru the adapter box than thru the headout jacks. but ofcos not every vintage amp sounds good nor not every vintage amp sounds good with all cans. much like amp & speakers, some amps will sound much better with some speakers. only way to tell is to try it out which is why i have a crapload of vintage amps! LOL. & bliv it or not, all of them combined wouldnt add up to the price of your Woo6. heh
   
  FWIW i think some posts back in this thread, even Skylab whos had his fair share of headamps (&def more than me LOL) says his ears tells him that the headphone jack of his vintage Marantz is of similar quality if not better than this meir concerto.
   
  though i've not even heard of the Setton brand, i've no doubt that it could be the bee's knees so no, i dont think ya nuts or ya ears need dewaxing. personally i think u already have had your fair share of nice headamps so i wouldnt bother doing the audio gd c2 if it were my coin. trust your ears & not what i say or anyone else says - thats what i say.
   
  ps:i must say i havent had a classic vintage tubie amp as yet so i dont know how it would compare to the other SS vintages. the Leben that S'Lab man has seems very nice but i dont have the $3k to try it out myself. too bad so sad.
  Quote 





sling5s said:


> Can someone help me?  Are my ears not developed or refined enough?
> I have had some good amps: Woo Audio 6 upgraded, Corda Symphony, RSA X-7, Nuforce HDP and many other portable amps but I keep coming back to my Setton Vintage Amp.
> It has a fuller, thicker, warmer midrange, wide spacious soundstage and more bass than any other amp.  In comparison, it makes dedicated SS headphone amps sound thin, flat and cold.
> 
> ...


----------



## scottiebabie

O REBman ya Kenwood(ies) seems like quite the dynamic duo. the 7002 is quite a catch & is suppose to sound excellent. good for u bud! happy listening


----------



## REB

Thanks, mate! The amp is sounding quite nice, but I think I will need to have it revised. The tuner isn't receiving too well... lots to figure out!
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> O REBman ya Kenwood(ies) seems like quite the dynamic duo. the 7002 is quite a catch & is suppose to sound excellent. good for u bud! happy listening


----------



## REB

The 7002 is sounding better every time I turn it on. It was out of action for a long, long time and needs time to recuperate (if that's the word). I'm now listening to the Tord Gustavsen Trio, Where Breating Starts, which as a wonderful standing bass solo. The 7002 is better than I thought it was. The bass solo is outstanding: the bass extends and is very well textured. Just the slightest murmur in the left channel at times.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> O REBman ya Kenwood(ies) seems like quite the dynamic duo. the 7002 is quite a catch & is suppose to sound excellent. good for u bud! happy listening


----------



## REB

No sorry, I've got a digital version 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I use the Kenwood at my office, putting a pick-up there would be pushing it. Explaining vintage audio on my desk is tasking enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
  Quote: 





jadeeast said:


> I hope you're at least looking at the vinyl albums massive gatefold. That one is a classic example of what LP artwork can be.
> PS. The Kenwood looks very sweet.


----------



## moodyrn

I spent some time in my garage today and stumbled upon an old superscope receiver. I thought "what in the world", but doing a little search on audiokarma I found that they were actually rebranded marantz. Some users reported they couldn't hear a difference comparing them side by side. It's very dusty, but I decided to give it a try. I haven't tried speakers yet, but the headphone out sounds pretty decent on my d7k's. It can't do much with my he-6, but the speaker outs sound pretty good with them. I didn't know where it came from, but come to find out, my wife's dad gave it to her when she was a teenager.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, how cool.  I never find cool stuff like that in MY garage!


----------



## moodyrn

This should hold me for a while since I just spent my receiver money on a set of tubes for my fisher. I scored some nice sylvania 12ax7 and a set of 7868s that tested nos. I shouldn't have to worry about tubes for a while.


----------



## REB

I was fiddling around with the kenwood kt7002 and put on solitude (duke ellington classic) from the soundtrack of kansas city. That version is recently (well, ten years back or so) recorded and features a bass, piano, clarinet, trombone, cornet, trumpet, bariton, tenor and alt saxophones, guitar and drums. The recording is very clean, but was recorded as a live session under controlled circumstances, so you get the best of both worlds.
  It sounded astounding. Separation of the instruments was really good, the bass had impact, the baritone sax actually gave me shivers running down my spine, the guitar sparkled. The details in the spaciousness (people humming and moving around) were impressive. The same album also has a track called 'solitude reprise' which is the same song, but now with drums and piano strictly in the background and with two standing basses (played by legend ron carter  and the then still young christian mcbride). The basses switch place continuously, alternatively playing the melody or playing the original bass part, culminating in the end in an extended bass solo (of two basses; is that still a solo or a double solo or a duo? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). It sounded like heaven, instant eargasm!


----------



## RexAeterna

to be honest,no one here on this site no matter how much they claim do not have ''golden'' ears. no one does. you can have very trained ears yes but that comes through lots of time listening and hearing different tones and harmonics. people don't know but reason why lot of instruments sound different is due to harmonics in the air. every sound is colored untill it hits our ear drum then it flattens out but still it all sounds different due to how the instrument harmonics react in the air. if everything was flat as people claim then all instruments would sound the same. i say if you enjoy your vintage amp more then that's perfectly fine. if you enjoyed your head-amp more then that's fine too but i'm not surprise lot of these vintage amps impress people. in order to get the quality in solid state build(or even tubes) you'll have to spend more than 2k to get the same push-pull quality design in todays economy. everything is sooo much more expensive to design and make nowadays. 
  
  Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Can someone help me?  Are my ears not developed or refined enough?
> I have had some good amps: Woo Audio 6 upgraded, Corda Symphony, RSA X-7, Nuforce HDP and many other portable amps but I keep coming back to my Setton Vintage Amp.
> It has a fuller, thicker, warmer midrange, wide spacious soundstage and more bass than any other amp.  In comparison, it makes dedicated SS headphone amps sound thin, flat and cold.
> 
> ...


----------



## francisdemarte

I think I'm the only one who does not like how the headphone out of my Marantz (2265B) sounds.

 While it's powerful enough to drive just about anything, I find the sound thick, slow, and congested. Maybe I need a re-cap of the amp board, but the speaker out's measure perfectly in spec and sound great.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> I think I'm the only one who does not like how the headphone out of my Marantz (2265B) sounds.
> 
> While it's powerful enough to drive just about anything, I find the sound thick, slow, and congested. Maybe I need a re-cap of the amp board, but the speaker out's measure perfectly in spec and sound great.


 


  nope u & me too bra. i hope the marantz fans take it easy on me for the heresy but i do think that marantz's are overrated esp for the dosh they command nowadays. O they sound good'nuff but i find some others are better (to my ears) period. a great alternative is pioneers of which i currently have 2 & both sound excellent amp-out & headout. & for much less money to boot - im been eyeing (ownership depends on the whims of my households financial director) an SX-1050 for a 1/3less than what it would cost to buy a similar conditioned 2265/75.
   
  cant really complain as i've made decent coin flipping the last 2 marantz's i've owned. the only thing i love about them is the gyro radio  tuning knob but then again, i hardly do radio & use it mainly for burn-in.
   
  kenwoods another unrated brand that sounds great. some of their amps were designed by the team that branched off to start a small little audio outfit caled...accuphase. i think some of us mite have heard about them somewhere. LOL


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Has anyone tried Panasonic's now-discontinued line of receivers with digital amps [models SA-XR##]?


 


  The only mention of them that I remember was by tfarney.  I seem to remember he compared it to the HK  A-402 and a Glow One but I can't find the posts.  I can only find comparisons to a Bithead, although he was posting about the Panasonic at the same time he was posting about the HK and Glow one.  If his signature is accurate, he kept the Panasonic.
   
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> dude dont know if ya yanking our collective chains or ya serious but im gonna play along & take u for real. granted i havent heard a whole lot of headamps or any of the highend stuff eg.B22, Audio Gd Pheonix, etc etc but of all that i've heard, my vintage amps pawn them all...for peanuts to the dollar. so much so that i've even built myself a little custom voltage divider series of boutique resistors (kiwames FWIW) so i could power my cans directly from the main amp out ie.speaker outs. & yes to my ears, it sounds better thru the adapter box than thru the headout jacks. but ofcos not every vintage amp sounds good nor not every vintage amp sounds good with all cans. much like amp & speakers, some amps will sound much better with some speakers. only way to tell is to try it out which is why i have a crapload of vintage amps! LOL. & bliv it or not, all of them combined wouldnt add up to the price of your Woo6. heh


 

 I heard a balanced B22 driving the LCD2 at a recent meet and it was pretty incredible sounding.  I doubt there's much that can pwn that particular setup on sound.  It's way out of my price range though, both amp and headphone.  Of all the high end rigs I've heard at meets, that's the first I've heard that tempts me to spend a lot.


----------



## Skylab

Well, the Skylab-Vintage-Receiver-as-headphone-amp bake-off is ON.  I scored a nice Sansui 9090 on off Craigslist, and a nice clean Pioneer SX-780, for $90.  So I will pit them against the Marantz 2275, and have a throw down.


----------



## moodyrn

I'm looking forward to those results. Maybe my vintage receiver cookie jar will be built back up by then.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I heard a balanced B22 driving the LCD2 at a recent meet and it was pretty incredible sounding.  I doubt there's much that can pwn that particular setup on sound.  It's way out of my price range though, both amp and headphone.  Of all the high end rigs I've heard at meets, that's the first I've heard that tempts me to spend a lot.


 
  though i havent had the pleasure of listening to either the LCD2 nor a balanced B22 (& i mean that sincerely), i dont for a moment doubt the combo sounds great. & they should be spectacular being that both are amongst the pinacles of current headphone technology esp the B22 with the moniker of best SS dedicated headamp.
   
  that said, if one hasnt heard my rig or something similar, one wouldnt know how high it flies it the exalted headamp heights. cost differential aside, one mite very well be truly surprised by how well a well synergized vintage amp would sound with the LCD2 or alot of other cans too. i personally have been enjoying my HE5-LE on a 32yr old Sansui & the very same amp recently gave a friend with a HE6 major goosebumps. hell short of ridiculous exoticas, i'd pit my 30ish young Technics receiver on a stock HD650 against any comers amp for amp.
   
  considering that both the aforemention vintage amps costs 1/20th of a B22, i wouldnt mind being proved wrong. seriously! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, the Skylab-Vintage-Receiver-as-headphone-amp bake-off is ON.  I scored a nice Sansui 9090 on off Craigslist, and a nice clean Pioneer SX-780, for $90.  So I will pit them against the Marantz 2275, and have a throw down.


 
  rite on S'Labman, been waiting for a faceoff like this for the longest. do include some well respected "dedicated" headamps to make this even more interesting will ya. IIRC your 2275's is full refurb while these 2 other seems to b private pickups. i've yet to buy an amp that worked perfect off the bat. at the very least, they all required a 'liberal" soaking of contact cleaner. even the headphone jacks been known to be filthy once in a while! heheh
   
  i do hope u keep in mind the fact the 3 vintages  in dissimilar condition mite skew the results. regardless i await your vintage trial & tribulations with abated breath


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





article1 said:


> I recently posted on this by asking whether forum members think I'd enjoy an upgrade if I used a dedicated headphone amp.


 

 Assuming of course that a dedicated amp was an upgrade.
  
  Definitely not a given.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> rite on S'Labman, been waiting for a faceoff like this for the longest. do include some well respected "dedicated" headamps to make this even more interesting will ya. IIRC your 2275's is full refurb while these 2 other seems to b private pickups. i've yet to buy an amp that worked perfect off the bat. at the very least, they all required a 'liberal" soaking of contact cleaner. even the headphone jacks been known to be filthy once in a while! heheh
> 
> i do hope u keep in mind the fact the 3 vintages  in dissimilar condition mite skew the results. regardless i await your vintage trial & tribulations with abated breath


 

 You are 100% correct.  I already took the Sansui partially apart and started the contact cleaner treatment. The Sansui was thoroughly serviced and cleaned a couple years ago, according to the guy who sold it to me.  It's in pretty good shape, but there was a little noise on the balance control.  So I have been using my contact cleaner liberally, indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Pioneer I will get to crack open over the weekend, and we'll see what's in store there.
   
  The one thing I will not be able to account for is that the Marantz had some caps replaced, and the others I have to assume are 100% original.  But of course the review will mention that.  And of course the receivers will get compared to traditional headphone amps.  Will be fun!!!!


----------



## REB

That's good news! Can't wait to see the results.
   
  I do envy those of you in the States though. It seems so much easier to get hold of nice equipment for fair prices. I can't recall a sansui 9090 up for sale here!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, the Skylab-Vintage-Receiver-as-headphone-amp bake-off is ON.  I scored a nice Sansui 9090 on off Craigslist, and a nice clean Pioneer SX-780, for $90.  So I will pit them against the Marantz 2275, and have a throw down.


----------



## francisdemarte

Take some pictures too!


----------



## Skylab

For sure will do that, love pics


----------



## Skylab

Well...
   
  A bit of bad news, the eBay seller who I got the Pioneer from packaged it with a whopping one thin sheet of bubble wrap, and it was loose in a big FedEx box getting slammed around.  Not surprisingly, it arrived DOA.  Ugh.
   
  Now the good news - in addition to the Sansui I got off Craigslist, I got a HUGE and HEAVY vintage Sony STR-7800 SD.  Late 70's vintage.  Some pics of both:
   
   
  The Sansui 9090:
   
   



   
   
  And the Sony:
   


   
   
  I'm still going to see if I can score a Pioneer before completing the bake-off...


----------



## pp312

Some people have no idea about packaging. I received a CD player once with no packing at all, just knocking around in this big old box (thankfully it was okay). Some people are the opposite and wrap even cheap items up like a Russian Doll, with so many layers of wrapping that it costs twice as much postage. Eek.


----------



## scottiebabie

too bad 'bout the Pioneer Rob, suxs for sure! shipping costs aside, this is the major reason im gonna stick to buying big ass heavy amps locally as i get to eyeball the condition & ensure the amps working as stated. plus i get to rag 'bout defects so buddie lowers his price! LOL. ya ya i know im a cheap ass bargain pooper shopper but hey, how else can i finance this addicting habit on my limited "allowance". heh. hope u get this resolved amicably - now go look for an SX-1050/1250 as i toldya! LOL
   
  OTOH congrats on the Sony. its one of the best looking vintage receivers to my eyes. i had (sold it off not too long ago) the younger bratha STR-6800SD which is basically the same config with a huge toroidal trafo, Darlington power outputs, mosfet 4gang tuner, 3speakers outs, adapter loop, dolby FM (??), etc.. 'cept for 30w/channel less. broke my heart to sell cos i really really lov'd the look&feel of it but the "boss" woudnt allocate more funds for new acquisitions so somethings had to go. it was fine on speakers but i must admit i wasnt too enamor'd of it as a headamp. cant wait to hear what u think of it.
   
  nice 9090 too. havent heard this particular model though i really really like the G-9000


----------



## Skylab

It's pretty amazing how huge and heavy both the Sansui and Sony are. I mean MASSIVE. Both have absolutely enormous power transformers. The Sansui won't fit in any rack I own, as it's 21 plus inches wide. It's the most monsterous thing I have ever seen. I absolutely love it 

Via it's tuner at least, the 9090 is pretty warm and ripe via headphones, at least lower impedance ones. Need to try it with the T1's. All I know so far about the Sony is that it works and is clean, meaning no hiss or distortion, although some controls need blowing out with contact cleaner for sure.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's pretty amazing how huge and heavy both the Sansui and Sony are. I mean MASSIVE. Both have absolutely enormous power transformers. The Sansui won't fit in any rack I own, as it's 21 plus inches wide. It's the most monsterous thing I have ever seen. I absolutely love it


 

 ROTFL!! welcome to the club mon ami. next thing u know, u end up with a wall of amps/receivers & a huge electrical bill. but trust me, theres nothing like walking into a room with the "wall' lit up with em gear! then u say....AHH LUB TIS!


----------



## francisdemarte

pp312 said:


> Some people have no idea about packaging. I received a CD player once with no packing at all, just knocking around in this big old box (thankfully it was okay). Some people are the opposite and wrap even cheap items up like a Russian Doll, with so many layers of wrapping that it costs twice as much postage. Eek.




I took a gamble and ordered my Marantz and Sony PS-X7 turntable off of ebay too. The Marantz arrived double boxed, padded with old pillow cases, window curtains, egg crates, mis-matched bubble wrap, pretty much everything but the kitchen sink! 

My turntable came with a few pieces of thin foam, the dust cover was in pieces. Some sellers just are either lazy or cheap to package correctly.


----------



## Shahrose

I got my dad's old Pioneer A-447 Integrated amp. This thing is definitely better than most headphone amps I've heard...surprisingly very tubey sounding without being mushy/slow. Massive soundstage and very liquid. Transparency is not a strong suit, but when you make sources sound like that, I think most would forget about transparency.
   
  The old-school bass and treble controls are pretty useful too. It's quite large/heavy and looks great. I had some friends come in and ask me how much I spent on it, thinking it was another crazy >$1k purchase.
   
  Pics here (not my own): http://xarchiwum.pl/wysokiej-klasy-pioneer-model-a-447-i1381661347.html


----------



## Shahrose

Jeez, I thought my amp was big...I just browsed through some earlier pages in this thread. Those 70s amps are monstrously huge.
   
"This receiver measures 6.75" tall, 21" wide, 14.75" deep and weighs a beefy 43 pounds."
  Description of Skylab's Pioneer SX-950.


----------



## Zida

I spent a decent bit of time tonight reading through this entire thread and I'm kind of surprised how little mention there was of Harman Kardon receivers. I thought they were supposed to be of generally good quality.
   
  Anyone have anything to say about them? I only just recently started researching vintage receivers and was thinking of picking up an HK 380i I found locally.


----------



## wualta

Skylab's Pioneer is big and beefy partly because it's a receiver. Take out the analog tuner trinkets and you can make the box smaller. Back in the day, it was a truism that a receiver, though convenient and impressive-looking, was really a compromise: a tuner, preamp and amp all shoved into one box vying for space and a slice of the project budget. A separate tuner, amp and preamp would not only allow you to buy 3 separate power supplies-- a good thing, though it sounds redundant-- it would mean that the manufacturers could concentrate on putting better parts in each, since competition wasn't so fierce for separates. The real plus was that with some research and imagination, you could pick your own best tuner, preamp and amp, depending on what was most important to you.
   
  After all, if you wanted dizzying power like 85 watts per channel plus a topnotch tuner plus a knob for every preamp function known to man, all in one box, something had to give somewhere. At least, such was the thinking circa 1977. And, it was going to be BIG.
   
  That said, receivers sold in the zillions, so in their long afterlife, they're affordable (mostly), sometimes slap-happily so. Still, if you concentrate on getting a good integrated or power amp, you'll probably get better build quality for roughly the same money, and a smaller cabinet as well. A lotta guys fall in love with the Captain Midnight dashboard look of vintage receivers, but if you can get around that, you can pick and choose your way into a nicely versatile and flexible setup that will serve not only for headphones but for speakers, and without taking up too much space.


----------



## Skylab

No doubt.  The Optonica (high-end Sharp) Integrated I bought, while still being VERY heavy due to the huge transformer, is about half the height of the receivers of the day (late 70's).  And it is astoundingly good as a headphone amp, and I got it for $100.  It's not as cool looking as the vintage receivers (LOL @ "Captain Midnight"), and not necessarily cheaper, but both a but cheaper, and quite possibly a bit better.  I bought all my first stereo gear in the 70's, and as far as HIGH END was concerned, there is no question separates were (and still are!) where it's at.  My first amp was an integrated (1978 Heathkit AA-1219 - still have it).
   
  But in the 70's, integrated amps were less common than receivers, and are harder to find.  And further, one of the cool things about some 70's receivers is, in fact, their tuners!  I live in an area with some great radio stations, including a close-by public station that broadcasts 100% Jazz, and has great sound.  So in my case the very high quality tuner section of my Marantz 2275 is a huge plus.  Something to consider.
   
  But either way, the headphone performance of the Marantz 2275 and the Optonica integrated are far better than I had expected they would be, and were better with my main headphones than any of the SS dedicated headphone amps I had (which were not super-high end, as all my high end headphone amps were tube). My higher-end tube headphone amps outperform any of the headphone outs of this vintage stuff, IMO, in nuance, if not in total power delivery.  But the point is more about the sometimes slap-happy silly cheapness - and I scored the Optonica super cheap.
   
  Oh and for the record, I don't have a Pioneer receiver.  The one I bought was DOA and got trash-heaped.  I have a Sansui 9090, Marantz 2275, and Sony STR-7800SD.


----------



## moodyrn

Skylab how does the vintage receivers you have compare to your fisher?


----------



## Skylab

It's kind of apples and oranges in some ways. The Fisher, which I absolutely adore, is a pretty tubey sounding amp. I like its sound quite a bit, but I know it isn't neutral. What I hear from the Marantz is really very neutral. Same with the Sony, in my limited experience with it, although it doesn't seem to that'd the transparency as the Marantz, and the Marantz is smoother. While neither is at all bright, you're not going to confuse either one with a vintage tube amp like the Fisher.

On the other hand, so far my feeling about the Sansui is that it actually WAS trying to sound like a tube amp. It's very warm and lush, but a little thick sounding.


----------



## moodyrn

That's interesting. With all of the talk about "sansui's are king, and marantz are over-rated" I was set on finding a good deal on a sansui. Now I think I might consider going with something else. I want my solid state amp to be as neutral as possible. If I want a tubey sounding amp, I would go with a tube amp and not a tubey sounding solid state amp. I agree the fisher is a very tubey sounding amp; even for a tube amp. But I still love the way it sounds. With some of the headphones I've tried, it was too tubey sounding. with others, they sounded truly outstanding. I love my d7000s with it, which is a little surprising since they are a touch on the warmer side of neutral.


----------



## sling5s

Skylab, how do they compare to dedicated Solid State headphone amps?  I know it's an unfair comparison but lets say Corda Concerto?


----------



## Skylab

Moodyrn, Totally agree about the Fisher. Sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered - love it with the HD800, for example.

I don't claim to be any sort of expert on this vintage stuff, so you should only take my thoughts as my experience with a few limited samples. But of the ones I got, there is no question the Sansui is voiced warm, and that the Marantz is more neutral. Also note that my Marantz has been recapped, and my Sansui has not (my Fisher was also recapped).

Sling5s, I actually thought the Marantz 2275 sounded better than the Concerto, to the point where I got rid of the Concerto. Anyone who has read my review of the Concerto knows I liked it quite a bit. I liked the Marantz as a headphone amp better. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## sling5s

Wow, I guess I'm not that crazy.  I owned the Marantz and Setton vintage amps and could not understand how they sounded better to my ears, than many Solid Stage dedicated amps but you have just confirmed it thanks.  
  There is a tonality to these vintage amps that really sounds right.  Especially with high impedance cans.  When I had the Woo Audio 6, it struggled to drive my old pair of AKG K 240M (600 oms) but the Setton drove them like it was nothing. I regret selling my Marantz.  I hope someday to find one at a thrift store again, maybe a Sansui too. 
   
  Thanks again. 
    
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sling5s, I actually thought the Marantz 2275 sounded better than the Concerto, to the point where I got rid of the Concerto. Anyone who has read my review of the Concerto knows I liked it quite a bit. I liked the Marantz as a headphone amp better. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## sling5s

Those are my opinions exactly. Dedicated headphone amps do have a advantage on detail and transparency but when it comes to soundstage and smoothness, it hard to beat.
  I think vintage amps make a excellent secondary set up, like in the bedroom.
  
  Quote: 





shahrose said:


> I got my dad's old Pioneer A-447 Integrated amp. This thing is definitely better than most headphone amps I've heard...surprisingly very tubey sounding without being mushy/slow. Massive soundstage and very liquid. Transparency is not a strong suit, but when you make sources sound like that, I think most would forget about transparency.
> 
> The old-school bass and treble controls are pretty useful too. It's quite large/heavy and looks great. I had some friends come in and ask me how much I spent on it, thinking it was another crazy >$1k purchase.
> 
> Pics here (not my own): http://xarchiwum.pl/wysokiej-klasy-pioneer-model-a-447-i1381661347.html


----------



## Frank I




----------



## Frank I

The above is a 1976 2220B 20 W receiver all restored except for the original transistors running the HE6 out of the speaker terminals and the D7000 out of the headphone jack. Very nice piece indeed.


----------



## Frank I

Here is a better photo it is mint.


----------



## TheWuss

gorgeous.  i'm jealous, frank!


----------



## Skylab

Really nice, Frank! that is really astoundingly nice condition. Congrats.


----------



## grokit

My Kenwood KA-6000 is a powerful and neutral integrated amp from the 1970's. It had a very clean sound until it stopped turning on, hopefully it's something like the power switch rather that the PSU and I will be able to revive it sometime soon. I also have a nice 1980's Sansui tuner I can use with it. A good friend gave me the amp in the 1980s, and I got the tuner from a pawnshop for $20 in the 1990s.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





zida said:


> I spent a decent bit of time tonight reading through this entire thread and I'm kind of surprised how little mention there was of Harman Kardon receivers. I thought they were supposed to be of generally good quality.
> 
> Anyone have anything to say about them? I only just recently started researching vintage receivers and was thinking of picking up an HK 380i I found locally.


 

 i had a HK230 reciever for a while. small compact with cool tuner lighting functions. wasnt as enamored of it as a headamp though. dont know much about the 380s but if it were my coin, i'd look for a higher end x30 twin power series. i do believe they are a dual mono design & are supposed to sound very good.
   
  btw not all Sansui's are good. i still have a 350 & 4000 late 60s receivers & they're ok but nothing exceptional though they do sound especially good with vintage speakers. i do find the dual mono 517/717 & prolly 819/919 (never heard but suppos to be slightly more evolved) to be exceptional. dont know if its the dual mono design or dc coupling but i find them to be a great combo of clean clear & extended while retaining a very organic sound.
   
  once u get to play with a few of them, u start to realize much like dedicated headamps, each model within the same make has its own siggy nevermind other brands. a lot also depends on which cans u pair it with & how one likes their music. another factor to consider is that their headouts mere second thoughts to the primary purpose of being speaker amps so its definitively not optimized for todays headphone cornucorpia. some of yous mite wanna think about diy'in a (specific for your amp) voltage divider adaptor to make it more headfi friendly. to me it makes a significant difference as i can drive all my cans direct off the speaker taps while retaining similar vol headroom as normal speakers. also the voltage divider adaptor brings the output impedance to 120ohms or so which makes it much better for low Z cans.
   
  receivers back in the 'golden era' arent as much of a compromise as we mite think. to start theres the receiver wars where each mgfr does their best to outdo the other by incorporating their best technology. also they used premium parts even by todays standard. while 80w/channel mite sound big today, it was low-mid end in the golden era where mid end is 150w & hiend is at the 300w range. & some of them werent built as a compromise but as showcase products.
   
  for eg the Sansui AU-20000 integrated amp was a true marriage of Sansui's well known CA-3000 preamp and BA-3000 power amp in every way. ditto for 'Sui G22000/33000. infact the G33000 comes in 2 pieces separating preamp/tuner & amp with an umbilical cord.
   
  ps:yes Grokit Kenwoods are very nice indeed. i think i did mention that Accuphase was spinoff company started by ex Kenwoods audio engineers. goodstuff!


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No doubt.  The Optonica (high-end Sharp) Integrated I bought, while still being VERY heavy due to the huge transformer, is about half the height of the receivers of the day (late 70's).  And it is astoundingly good as a headphone amp, and I got it for $100.  It's not as cool looking as the vintage receivers (LOL @ "Captain Midnight"), and not necessarily cheaper, but both a but cheaper, and quite possibly a bit better.  I bought all my first stereo gear in the 70's, and as far as HIGH END was concerned, there is no question separates were (and still are!) where it's at.  My first amp was an integrated (1978 Heathkit AA-1219 - still have it).
> 
> But in the 70's, integrated amps were less common than receivers, and are harder to find.  And further, one of the cool things about some 70's receivers is, in fact, their tuners!  I live in an area with some great radio stations, including a close-by public station that broadcasts 100% Jazz, and has great sound.  So in my case the very high quality tuner section of my Marantz 2275 is a huge plus.  Something to consider.
> 
> ...


 

 I've been following this thread since I have a Fisher X-100-B (which sadly I am having to send to a "fisher doctor" for repair soon) and saw Skylab's post several pages back about the Optonica 73005.  I had never heard of the brand and out of curiosity, did an e-bay search.  There was one on auction (same model).  They claimed the only flaw was a bent grounding screw on the back.  I thought what the heck and put a bid of $50.  Ended up winning it for $47 and the matching tuner for $9.99!  Everything on it works perfect and is in great shape cosmetically.   Skylab is right, it is crazy good, especially for the money.  I think most of the time they go for around $100  or more when you can find them but I guess the bent screw on the back scared some bidders.  It is heavy, built like a tank, and has great sound - silky smooth, neutral and detailed but not bright with both headphones and speakers.  It is not as cool looking as most vintage amps / receivers and probably had a lot to do with it's lack of popularity but is a heck of a deal if you can find them.  Thanks Sky!


----------



## francisdemarte

Well my Sony PS-X7 turntable went belly up this evening. Listening to a record and noticed it starting to warble, had trouble maintaining a constant speed. Opened it up to test some voltages with my multimeter and it stopped working all together. No lights, no nothing. Power supply went completely dead. 

Guess I'm going to start hunting craigslist for another one. :mad:


----------



## Skylab

Holy crap davo50, that was a SCORE! Wow. Pretty impressive with the big orthos, isn't it?


----------



## pp312

Biggest problem with vintage amps is lack of inputs.


----------



## Zida

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i had a HK230 reciever for a while. small compact with cool tuner lighting functions. wasnt as enamored of it as a headamp though. dont know much about the 380s but if it were my coin, i'd look for a higher end x30 twin power series. i do believe they are a dual mono design & are supposed to sound very good.


 
   
  Thanks, based on your advice I guess i'll pass on it. Is there anywhere you gather your info about these amps? I have developed a list of local amps of interest and am having a hell of time narrowing it down to just one (two wouldn't kill me, I guess 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Biggest problem with vintage amps is lack of inputs.


 


  ? How many inputs do you need? My fisher has five, and I only use one of them. I can hook up cd player, a dac,  tuner, a record player, and a tape player. Many vintage integrated and receivers have even more than that. I don't think many that owns them uses them all anyway, and the number of inputs is the last thing I would look at. No, take that back, I don't even look at how many inputs vintage gear have when I'm trying to decide what to get.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> ? How many inputs do you need? My fisher has five, and I only use one of them. I can hook up cd player, a dac,  tuner, a record player, and a tape player. Many vintage integrated and receivers have even more than that. I don't think many that owns them uses them all anyway, and the number of inputs is the last thing I would look at. No, take that back, I don't even look at how many inputs vintage gear have when I'm trying to decide what to get.


 

 For two turntables, two tape decks with returns, plus a tuner, an auxiliary input, and a couple more see my modest Kenwood, above.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





zida said:


> Thanks, based on your advice I guess i'll pass on it. Is there anywhere you gather your info about these amps? I have developed a list of local amps of interest and am having a hell of time narrowing it down to just one (two wouldn't kill me, I guess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  oh nooo hope i didnt steer u away from a nice amp. LOL audiokarma's very good vintage resource & since google's your best friend, doing your homeworks half the battle. i still have about 7amps & have sold atleast that much just in the past year so i guess one picks up info along the way. despite or inspite rather of forums posts with the best intentions, the only way to truly know is to buy & try it out in your rig. luckily for now atleast, vintage gear can be had for very little money so one can literally go to down on trying stuff. keep the ones u like & blow the rest out for very little loss again if u do your homework.
   
  another good thing for us headfier is we dont need the big guns. anything above 20w is 100x overkill to begin with for anything other than K1ks & hifiman orthos. even with those, 20w rms will drive em to mind blowing volumes. if u havnt caught on yet, 20-40watter baby amps get no respect from buyers which works out beautifully for us headthumpers. eg i just pick'd up a pioneer sx450 lastweek for $15 with some blown lights. $5, 5bulbs & a coupla hrs later, she's lighting up the room like a mini xmas tree. i havent found a vintage amp yet that hasnt needed the case to be crack'd open & thoroughly soak with a good contact cleaner - we canucks can get MG's Nu-trol for $11 a big can & it works wonders. case her back up, let her dry & fire her up. thats it.
   
  thats about all normal pitfalls of buying old stuff. ofcos i've screw'd the pooch a coupla times but i take my lumps & call it partial payment in vintage education. OTOH i've more than made up for it in reselling stuff. u have it much better over me with much bigger pickin's in the GTA region as GVRD is 4-5x smaller market. i'd snoop round CL as its been my best source so far both for buying & reselling. personally i stay from fleabay if for no other reason, shipping costs a ton,
   
  thats as far it goes for headfi needs. if u do turn into a collector, thats another ballgame entirely. its even more fun & potentially a better investment although it also comes with bigger pitfalls. im very close to being done for headfi & am basically looking for collectable purchases. thats where MONSTA amps/receivers come in. for those that think a 'Sui 9090s big, put a SX1980 beside it & everybody goes......Holyyyy Jeeeeezz! heheh. i love it!
   
  ps:no diss intended on the 'Sui 9090 as its a very well respected receiver & its big by most standards. just goes to demo how "BIG" Monsta amps/receivers are.


----------



## REB

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My Kenwood KA-6000 is a powerful and neutral integrated amp from the 1970's. It had a very clean sound until it stopped turning on, hopefully it's something like the power switch rather that the PSU and I will be able to revive it sometime soon. I also have a nice 1980's Sansui tuner I can use with it. A good friend gave me the amp in the 1980s, and I got the tuner from a pawnshop for $20 in the 1990s.


 

 Very nice! And that for $20... Design-wise, It is strikingly similar to my ka7002.


----------



## grokit

Actually the amp was free, or in return for a favor or something; the guy wasn't using it any more. I was driving a multi-zone speaker system with it until a few years ago.
   
  The tuner was $20


----------



## REB

Ditto for mine: two phono imputs, two aux, one tuner, two tapes, one mic.


----------



## REB

That's even better! Hope you can get it fixed.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Actually the amp was free, or in return for a favor or something; the guy wasn't using it any more. I was driving a multi-zone speaker system with it until a few years ago.
> 
> The tuner was $20


----------



## REB

Listening to keith jarrett, jack de johnette and gary peacock live at the blue note through the Kenwood: It's like I'm there.


----------



## REB

I had that happen with a sansui 555a. The seller put it in a large cardboard box (not a snug fit at all, the amp could move around) and that was it. the amp is now at a repair center to see whether it can be salvaged.
  
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Some people have no idea about packaging. I received a CD player once with no packing at all, just knocking around in this big old box (thankfully it was okay). Some people are the opposite and wrap even cheap items up like a Russian Doll, with so many layers of wrapping that it costs twice as much postage. Eek.


----------



## pp312

Did you let the seller or Ebay know?


----------



## REB

I bought it through a local site (similar to craigslist in the states). I let the seller know, but he never responded. i paid only 50 euro's, but still... mostly, buying vintage audio from that site works just fine. This one time it didn't.
  
  Quote: 





pp312 said:


> Did you let the seller or Ebay know?


----------



## Skylab

Yep, I learned the hard way - no EBay, at least not for bargain hunting, or unless the seller is local to me (which in Chicago certainly does happen).  It will be really sad Wednesday when it's trash day to see that SX-780 on the trash heap.  With a better packing job, it could have been different. 
   
  But if you live in a major metro, I've discovered just in a month or so of looking there are opportunities to buy vintage amps and receivers than one could ever even check out!  I'm trying to resist the temptation right now to buy a fully serviced Pioneer SX-1250, which I could pick up 12 miles from here...


----------



## REB

The good news is that I just heard from the repair guy that the sansui amp will be ready next week and that everything will have been fixed for a reasonable price. If that is the case, I'm gonna send him my other vintage stuff as well to clean, upgrade and revise.
   
  That pioneer is a beauty! to quote oscar wilde: I can resist anything but temptation. So go ahead and take one for the team!

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yep, I learned the hard way - no EBay, at least not for bargain hunting, or unless the seller is local to me (which in Chicago certainly does happen).  It will be really sad Wednesday when it's trash day to see that SX-780 on the trash heap.  With a better packing job, it could have been different.
> 
> But if you live in a major metro, I've discovered just in a month or so of looking there are opportunities to buy vintage amps and receivers than one could ever even check out!  I'm trying to resist the temptation right now to buy a fully serviced Pioneer SX-1250, which I could pick up 12 miles from here...


----------



## Zida

This might be better suited for the sound science forum, but I feel it relates to vintage receivers better than most other topics on head-fi...
   
  What do you guys think about the THD%. I've seen them listed as high as 1% and all the way down to 0.004% out of these vintage amps. I'm inclined to weed out some amps based on that spec, but I'm not sure if it's actually audible and I might be passing on some good amps for no good reason. Now, I believe that, as WPC can actually only tell you so much about an amps ability to drive speakers, a THD spec can only tell you so much about the harmonic distortion, but in some of your experiences (any of you who have toyed around with a couple receivers) have you noticed anything about THD worth noting?



 -----
 And incase anyone feels like passing some judgement on some local deals I'm now looking at
  a Pioneer SA-8500, not mkII,         60wpc        0.1%thd       which is supposed to have a clean and clear sound sig which is important to me,
  Harmon Kardon HK630,                30wpc        0.7%thd        twin powered *receiver model, not the integrated amp of, seemingly, the same name

 there also looks to be a well upkept sansui 7070 which probably isnt a bad idea for me since I've never tried to clean electronics or change caps or anything.


----------



## Skylab

First of all, I seriously doubt anyone could hear the difference between 0.7% THD and 0.1% THD, but that said, it also depends on what the harmonics even are.  even-order harmonics are generally considered to be pretty benign, whereas odd-order harmonics are more objectionable.  So only knowing THD without knowing what the distortion products are, isn't enough to go on.
   
  And the fact of the matter is, in a vintage receiver, noise is likely to swamp THD anyway.


----------



## wualta

I'm with Skylab on this one. Using a one-dimensional figure of merit like THD to make a buying decision is like buying an LCD computer monitor by looking at the response-time spec. It tells you something about the design philosophy of the unit, but it's far-- too far-- from giving you the whole picture.


----------



## moodyrn

I would also like to add, if people soley went on thd, there would be very few tube amp owners out there. Some very good tube amps can have a thd as high as 1.0%. A lot of people will tell you that anything below 1.0% is inaudible. This is just like people only looking at frequency response graphs to judge how a headphone will sound.


----------



## wualta

Eggzackly. By the time we'd hit the mid-'70s, the technology had matured to the point where THD was a minor factor in a buying decision. I know you need something to eliminate the nonstarters, but THD isn't the spec to do that.
   
  If you can see a graph of THD vs. frequency, that will tell you more of what you want to know about an amplifier. By itself, though, it's still not enough.


----------



## grokit

Agreed with the above, comparing vintage gear to modern is like comparing tubes to solid-state regarding specs, you only get part of the story and it doesn't really relate that much to what we actually hear.
   
  Skylab, I hope you got a full refund and/or left extremely negative feedback re your eBay seller


----------



## scottiebabie

Zida i have the SA-7500 & its a very nice amp indeed so i think u'd be very happy with the SA-8500. though i like the AU517 better, the pioneer drives high Z cans like the HD650 very well with solid cracking bass & just enuff tizz up top to make it clear & extended for warmer cans. very transparent too.
   
  talking of which, have any of u guys had the room light dim for a fraction when u turn on your vintage amp? this doesnt happen on any other amp i have/had 'cept the '
  measly 65w Sansui AU517. goes to show how much juice it sucks in to power up the caps which i guess explains why the bass on this thing is so deep & controlled. its all about the power supply folks.
   
  amp design isnt rocket science so im guessing its about proper implementation with good quality parts & a great power supply. Sansui started off as a transformer mfgr that branch off into amps which does explain why they made some very good amps. its all about the power...aye cap'ain...moar powerrr! LOL 
   
  O skylab, get the SX1250...now! its a beast of a receiver & it'll be your pride & joy fo sho!


----------



## francisdemarte

skylab said:


> Yep, I learned the hard way - no EBay, at least not for bargain hunting, or unless the seller is local to me (which in Chicago certainly does happen).  It will be really sad Wednesday when it's trash day to see that SX-780 on the trash heap.  With a better packing job, it could have been different.
> 
> But if you live in a major metro, I've discovered just in a month or so of looking there are opportunities to buy vintage amps and receivers than one could ever even check out!  I'm trying to resist the temptation right now to buy a fully serviced Pioneer SX-1250, which I could pick up 12 miles from here...




To get your money back on ebay you need to send the unit back and give them a tracking number. You may not want to trash it just yet!


----------



## Zida

I figured that unless the THD is abysmal it couldn't really tell you anything. I just wasn't sure at what % it crosses the line. Thanks

 Scottie, any comment on how your Pioneer 7500 handles your orthos? I'm going to be using my amp with pretty much nothing but HE-6.
 All I'm looking for is a nice cheap neutral powerhouse. That shouldn't be a problem, right?


----------



## Skylab

The seller told me he would send me a refund. If I don't get it in a few days I will file an official complaint via eBay. So I will not throw it out until I get the money.

Scottie you about have me convinced on the SX1250. I like the look of the SX-x80 series better than the x50 series, but if I understand it right, the x50 series uses discrete transistors, whereas the x80 series uses the Darlington "power packs", which were somewhat problem prone. Does that sound right?


----------



## moodyrn

Agreed Skylab. Just get your money back. But on the otherhand, unless it's serverely damamged on the outside, I would consider working out an agreement to get a partial refund and taking it to a repair shop. I've seem people shelling out some serious cash on defective units on ebay just to get them repaired. That receiver has quite the reputation.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I might consider that if it were mint cosmetically. But it's not. Not awful, but not great. For sure in the worst condition of the four receivers I have bought. 

About 8 years ago, when I was experimenting with vintage 70's Japanese DD turntables, it was the same story. Some were shipped to me very well, and in great condition. Others were exaggerated greatly in terms of the condition they were in, and/or packed very poorly. In the end, the only one I've kept these many years later I bought locally. I'm glad I found a Sansui locally, since that would have been a mutha to ship.

I've been hovering on the Audiogon page for that SX1250...must...resist...


----------



## scottiebabie

Zida any of the vintage amps u're looking at will be 10x overkill for your HE6 interms of power. i be seriously shocked if u can turn it up anywhere close to 12'clock high. the SA7500 powers my HE5-LE very well just not as well as the 'Sui AU517...to my ears. heres why - the 517 doesnt do bass as impactful but it goes deeper & is more 'organic' sounding. this organiness (is there such a word?) extends all the way thru out both ends. also i find the SA7500 slightly too 'energetic' up top while the 517s about perfect to my ears.
   
  we both know the hifiman orthos dont lack for treble nor bass & its seems that the 'Sui matches the strengths & balances out the weakness about the best of all the amps i've heart. OTOH i find the pioneer slightly better for the HD650. all this to my ears ofcos. that said if u do get the pioneer, u mite also wanna keep a lookout for an AU-517/717 score & see if your tastes runs in the same vein as mine. then sell which ever amp that pleases u less as both these series are very well respected & in high demand for resale.
   
  & dude dont worry bout THD in any of the above amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  skylab dude get the SX1250 & u wont look back! trust me as i've seen it live. its frakin huge & about as solid as a brick sheeeshous as u can get. O & its 65 odd lbs so u get to build some bi tri & pecs while ya at it too. its def something u wanna show off as i think ppl will gaga at the 1250 even more so than your exotic leben. while it mite not sound as good as the leben with cans, i can guarantee it'll sound aweesome & loud with just about any kind speakers u wanna throw at it. and it goes loud. did i say loud? ya it goes loud. errrr i meant LOUUD! hehe
   
  & be prepared for an extended electric bill if u keep it lit. if its anything like my 'Sui, looks for a slight drop & dimming in the room lights when u switch it on too. fraks im sooo jealous. wish i have the resources u do. dang maybe i should trade my wife in for a more gear friendly model LOL
   
  edited:forgot about this - consensus is both are very good sounding with the 1280 having slightly more features & arguable better looks. it seems the 1280 has some unobtainium parts so 1250 is the way to go for sure. even resale, i do bliv 1250 is possibly more desireable.


----------



## scottiebabie

holyyyy fraks! i did a 'gon search for your 1250 & they want $1k!!??? to give u some perspective, the last 2 12x0 thats gone thru locally (my locality ofcos) went for $600 or so. unless this beast has been fully recond & in as new condition, i'd take a pass. however it mite be worth your while if the seller has the receipts to show all the extra work he's done. 
   
  if its a full recond/refurb, the beast should be heirloom material. hope your son (& his son) realizes how lucky he issssss. heh


----------



## Skylab

Actually they want $700 OBO. I was gonna offer $600. They are claiming it was fully serviced, including key caps replaced, etc. The nice thing is, no wasted money on shipping, and no risk in breakage, and if I show up to pay cash and it's a dog, I can walk...


----------



## scottiebabie

a 1250s worth $600 all day & can only appreciate. personally i would go $700 if buddy can show receipts proving all the work done. even simple cleaning, bias adjustment can set u back over $100 & caps changed would be a big bonus. 
   
  heres how i would do this if i were shopping. contact buddy & set up the meet. hoof it there & do a proper audition as the amp should work & sound great. if i like what i see & hear, offer buddy $600 to take it home. if he refuses, be prepared to do a good hum & ha routine. then call the "wife" for permission to up the ante another $25 or so. i think $650 will def buy it & anything lower will depend on your haggling abilities. LOL
   
  if the disposible incomes not an issue, look at it this way. u are NOT really spending or buying or splurging. u are merely TRANSFERING the cash from sitting doing nothing in the bank to another financial vehicle which provides extreme pleasure - priceless btw. u can always resell for very close to what u paid if not as much or more. atleast that be how i justify my purchases to the boss. heh.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah that's a good way to rationalize...I mean JUSTIFY it  But thanks for the info on the price - that helps a lot.

For me it's not so much about spending the money as long as I feel like I am getting a good value - the issue is more the space. I don't have anywhere good to put another one. I kinda wish I hadn't jumped the gun ton the only, as I'd rather have the Pioneer, as nice as the Sony is.

Decisions, decisions...


----------



## hrbballman

I haven't read the whole thread but I have a Channelmaster 6600 integrated amp!  It has 4 EL-84's and it used to have ceramic capacitors but i updated it a little and installed newer ones.  I replaced the old el84's with Genalex gold lion el84's.  Its super warm and I really enjoy it(I am quite the noob though).  Here are a few pics....(picture is old and shows original tubes)


----------



## Skylab

Very nice! Love EL84 tube amps. Very ccol.


----------



## Zida

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Zida any of the vintage amps u're looking at will be 10x overkill for your HE6 interms of power. i be seriously shocked if u can turn it up anywhere close to 12'clock high. the SA7500 powers my HE5-LE very well just not as well as the 'Sui AU517...to my ears. heres why - the 517 doesnt do bass as impactful but it goes deeper & is more 'organic' sounding. this organiness (is there such a word?) extends all the way thru out both ends. also i find the SA7500 slightly too 'energetic' up top while the 517s about perfect to my ears.
> 
> we both know the hifiman orthos dont lack for treble nor bass & its seems that the 'Sui matches the strengths & balances out the weakness about the best of all the amps i've heart. OTOH i find the pioneer slightly better for the HD650. all this to my ears ofcos. that said if u do get the pioneer, u mite also wanna keep a lookout for an AU-517/717 score & see if your tastes runs in the same vein as mine. then sell which ever amp that pleases u less as both these series are very well respected & in high demand for resale.
> 
> & dude dont worry bout THD in any of the above amps






 Thanks. I personally like the idea of getting a clean and brutally neutral amp and just letting the headphones be what they are (and maybe applying a parametric EQ if I really find it necessary), so as long as I don't feel the SA8500 is adding to the treble I think I'm going to be very happy with it. I'll miss being able to crank the volume knob, though 

 There's actually a sansui 719 available in my area. The way you raved about that series I nearly jumped when I saw it, but I don't think I'd want to spend $450 on an amp.

   
   
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> if the disposible incomes not an issue, look at it this way. u are NOT really spending or buying or splurging. u are merely TRANSFERING the cash from sitting doing nothing in the bank to another financial vehicle which provides extreme pleasure - priceless btw. u can always resell for very close to what u paid if not as much or more. atleast that be how i justify my purchases to the boss. heh.


 
  You're starting to sound like me, now. That's how I've justified all my gear on a  budget


----------



## moodyrn

I like that also. It appears to have some good iron.


----------



## grokit

Skylab you probably know this but be sure and save your packaging as well just in case for the claim.


----------



## Uri Cohen

How did I miss this thread?


 Oh well I'm using a Fisher RS-1035 (Sanyo era Fisher) with my RS-1i and a Cyrus CD6S player.  Good match for what it does.  I might get a real headphone amp for better performance with my Grados.  The Fisher has plenty of power but I prefer a real headphone amp for it.  The Fisher is huge when you are carrying it around all over the place.


----------



## scottiebabie

yaa Zida i woudnt pay $450 for the 719 either. its worth $300 as it is a 95watter after all. again u know u talking about a very good speaker amp here & its not just for headphones. taking that into acct, its actually not too bad. 
   
  about the pioneer vs sansui, u just have to hear it out for yourself as anything i says gonna biased for my ears & taste. that said, i dont believe u're gonna be too unhappy with the SA8500. pick it up at a decent enuff deal & one can always liquidate for a profit - thats another fav line for the boss! hehe
   
  skylab..Rob u have no idea what a monsta the 1250 is. spaces the easiest prob to fix - nice as the Sony is, blow it out as its not even in the same postal code (thats zipcode for u yanks heh). not sure what u paid but i sold my STR6800 for $200 even. i paid $120 btw 
   
  hell blowout the 2275 for that matter as me thinks u'll be way more impressed by the pioneer. let me refresh your memory just incase - its a 160w/channel of old school power which btw should measure close to 200w per. have u seen the innards of the big...scratch that...ginormous trafos with 4 equally crap inducin montrous power caps?? take it off at buddy pls & check it out. theres nothing tat spells good ol american excess as these monsta receivers....wait arent these things japanese? well mayb the japs did it specifically for power crazed americans! ahahaha!
   
  if it were me, this is the receiver i'd keep over all 4 you've got. theres only a few others that i'd rather have! just do it as u'll slap yourself silly for getting a pansy sx750 850 950 heck don matter...they're all pansies. well 'ceptin the 1950/80 ofcos. now thats the receiver i'd get if i were spending your coin....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  pspps theres no sx1950. my bad.


----------



## Skylab

You convinced me, Scottie. Thank god I have this site to gather my fellow junkies to convince me to score 

If he accepts the offer I will just sell the Sony. I agree it's nice but not in the same league as this Pioneer, or the Marantz or Sansui. Plus I have seen them going on eBay for twice what I paid for it


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You convinced me, Scottie. Thank god I have this site to gather my fellow junkies to convince me to score
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I am getting a kick out of watching you buy all these receivers, The marantz 2220B is nice with the HE6 but all the detail and musicality of the Decware amps is not there. I really like listening to the tuner and did listen to CD today with the Marantz but as good as it is it not a reference lvel as my tube amps but serious fun anyway ad I like the blue lights


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I'm a maniac.

I pick up the SX1250 tomorrow


----------



## scottiebabie

OYAAAAH!!! Sheeez I feel I'm living the high life thru u! LMAO. Do take lots of pic of innards & of it with the other amps. It's jus in another class. Fun isn't it....for the price of a 'pod LOD & a set of cables. To paraphrase MC Hammer "Cant Touch This.....

Btw Frank u do realize the 2220 is the bottom model of the series. The power supply amongst other things, gets better as u move up. Plus to my ears, marantz's are far from sounding the best with hifiman orthos. Jus sayin


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I'm a maniac.
> 
> I pick up the SX1250 tomorrow


 


  LOL And Rob dont forget the 10W Jolida over at Music Direct may be perfect for the he6 with 4 EL84


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Btw Frank u do realize the 2220 is the bottom model of the series. The power supply amongst other things, gets better as u move up. Plus to my ears, marantz's are far from sounding the best with hifiman orthos. Jus sayin


 


  x2. The receivers Skylab have purchased recently and the 2220 are worlds apart and in completely different leagues.


----------



## Skylab

I spent some time today with the Sansui 9090 and the LCD-2 - and I may have underestimated the Sansui. MAN does it sound good with the Audeze. I mean slap-your-mama good. Couldn't get enough. I also was digging the Marantz 2275 with the LCD-2, though. Gonna spend more time with that combo tomorrow, if I get any time at work where I am just on the computer working and not in meetings.

And then at Lunch I get the 1250, so we all know what I will be doing tomorrow night 

NOW - who wants to buy my Sony STR-7800? I've seen these selling on EBay for $500+. I will make someone here a sweet deal!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> OYAAAAH!!! Sheeez I feel I'm living the high life thru u! LMAO. Do take lots of pic of innards & of it with the other amps. It's jus in another class. Fun isn't it....for the price of a 'pod LOD & a set of cables. To paraphrase MC Hammer "Cant Touch This.....
> 
> Btw Frank u do realize the 2220 is the bottom model of the series. The power supply amongst other things, gets better as u move up. Plus to my ears, marantz's are far from sounding the best with hifiman orthos. Jus sayin


 

 I bought it for the tuner and frankly it sounds good with the He6 also. I knew that the Sansui receiver were better but I more or less bought the marantz because it was very clean and priced right and for a  piece to fiddle with.. None of the receiver even if I would spend more money will be able to replace my tube amps anyway.  It looks nice and sounds good and as you move up the Marantz line it more about power differences IMO anyway and frankly I do not use it with my speakers as my tube amps keep me happy. But I will admit uif fun listening to the tuner and I did use it for the HE6 today and it was god but it wont compare to my reference Decware amps. Actually the 2220B was not the bottom of the line. The 2216B was the least expensive. The 220  series diferrences were in power. The 2275 retailed for 599..0 while the 2220B was 299.00 which was common for receivers with different power ratings. The more power the more it cost. Also to not that this is not being used for speakers so running more than 2oW for what I use them for would be overkill. But Sansui was know in the 70's to be the best receivers. But the Marantz line was no slouch. In the 70 the Japanese were trying to outdo themselves in receivers. And NAD changed all the rules by introducing the 3020 which was not a receiver but an integrated amplifier.  I was not looking to buy an expensive vintage receiver for sound as I use my tube amps all the time.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I spent some time today with the Sansui 9090 and the LCD-2 - and I may have underestimated the Sansui. MAN does it sound good with the Audeze. I mean slap-your-mama good. Couldn't get enough. I also was digging the Marantz 2275 with the LCD-2, though. Gonna spend more time with that combo tomorrow, if I get any time at work where I am just on the computer working and not in meetings.
> 
> And then at Lunch I get the 1250, so we all know what I will be doing tomorrow night
> 
> ...


 

 Are you using the headphone jack or the speaker taps?


----------



## Skylab

This was via the headphone out!


----------



## dunross

You can find quite a few threads here about this particular topic. They usually devolve into a shouting match about why receivers and integrated amps suck for headphone duty. This thread has a decidedly different feel to it as most participants are true believers. And a few participants have enough credibility to perhaps keep the naysayers at bay.
   
  Anyway it's been a really fun thread to read as I am also a true believer.Now, I have a few utilitarian looking pieces of audio equipment serving duty here, but in the vintage area, looks count.
   
  Here's a pretty little Marantz 1030 integrated that is a headphone daily driver for me. She is only 15 watts per side but she plays headphones most beautifully.


----------



## livewire

Sweet!
  What source are you using?


----------



## scottiebabie

ooopsie doooosie! double post! mea culpa


----------



## scottiebabie

@dunross nice  integrated marantz & i see u're power a low Z Denon with it. i know the old school way of stepping the down the voltage after pulling out the signal offa main amps out with resistors works very well with high Z cans but 'xeptin the 38ohm HE5-LE, i dont have any nice low z cans to try it out.
   
  O & a big welcome to the club as its nice to have another true believer. i've stuck to my guns cos i believe what my ears tell me & after trying out over a dozen amps, my ears tells me they sound very very good. it would be much better id i had access to a real hi end dedicated headamp as a means of comparo but i guess having skylab do it for me is the next best thing. so S'labdude better get yo ass in gear & brings us some reviews. LOL
   
  @Zida i just thought of what u said about wanting something clean & neutral so im gonna throw u a coupla curve balls to catch. in my vintage travels, my ears have been telling me that Technics & Yamahas lean more toward that neck of the woods than the more popular standards like Marantz, 'Suis, & Pioneers. my Technics SA-400 sounds exceptional clean, quick & transparent - infact too much so for my orthos but great with the darker Senns. ditto for a Yami CA610 i've heard.
   
  so these two particular makes mite be exactly what the doc ordered for u. indeed i personally would pick up the Yami CA810 & above series of integrated cos they have an internal switch that allows one to run in pure class A - i bliv 15w per for the CA810 up to 25w per for higher models. something for u to chew on. 
   
  addon:O & Frank before u put the triple hex on me, there's no intention on my part to ruffle any feathers nor any thoughts of diss'in your 2220 or any Marantz for that matter. heck one of my 1st purchases was a 2250 & it was darn good. i merely used overated as a means of objection to the ridiculous resale values they command nowadays. dont mean they're arent good - just not for the prices they go for now cos there's aplenty that just as good IMO for much less dosh.
   
  that said, i do bliv that a better trafo & psu improves the sound. all things being equal, if we just upgraded the psu on any amp, what would the resultant be. now moving up another step, if a true dual mono psu design was implemented, what then. at the very least thats what a higher output brings to the table.
   
  these amps were built in the "golden/silver era" in combination with the receiver power wars basically ensured each mfgr gave their best both in technology & parts. power outputs werent just some opaque obsure meaningless numbers & bench testing showed that most of them output'd more than stated. this can only be achieved when the power supply is over designed & over built at the very least.


----------



## Frank I

LOL No hex intended Scottie.  I paid 200.00 with the case for a mnt almost new lookingt receiver. I can get stuff much cheaper but this one was too nice to pass and for 200.00 it very clean. I agree  there are many around but look at what the Sansui are going for and most not even restored. I would love to get a 9090 if the price was right. There is a restored one I seen for 1400.00 Nuts


----------



## Skylab

That's the key, Frank - you got a nice unit, LOCALLY, for a good price.  I have seen JUST the wood cases in the condition yours is in going for $150!!!  You got a steal.  And so far, I prefer the Marantz with headphones to the Sansui and the Sony monster receivers.  I'm listening to the 2275 right now with the LCD-2, and I am telling you, it's stupid-good.  JMO, of course, and frankly, the Sansui is very close, and it's also killer.  The Sony's headphone out is good but not great.  It's a little lacking in transparency. 
   
  I pick up the SX-1250 in a few hours.  I'm geeked!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's the key, Frank - you got a nice unit, LOCALLY, for a good price.  I have seen JUST the wood cases in the condition yours is in going for $150!!!  You got a steal.  And so far, I prefer the Marantz with headphones to the Sansui and the Sony monster receivers.  I'm listening to the 2275 right now with the LCD-2, and I am telling you, it's stupid-good.  JMO, of course, and frankly, the Sansui is very close, and it's also killer.  The Sony's headphone out is good but not great.  It's a little lacking in transparency.
> 
> I pick up the SX-1250 in a few hours.  I'm geeked!


 

 Its been a fun receiver with both the HE6 and the D7000 out of the headphone jack and the 6 on the pigtail. Listening to the tuner also and like what I hear so for 200.00 with the case and this condition Rob I am very happy with the unit and I see no reason to get another one. The 20W is way more than enough for what I am using it for. Your 2275 is also very very good. Glad you like it more than the 9090 Sansui


----------



## dunross

I have a Panasonic sa-xr55. It is a 7.1 receiver. They achieved some renown a few years back for their digital amps. I have it hooked up to a TV in the kids' play room. I have one or two vintage pieces that sound better to me on my speaker rig but it does a credible job nonetheless. More to the point of this thread, my digital receiver has one of the worst headphone amps I have ever heard.   Here is a pic.
   
   

  Quote: 





wualta said:


> Has anyone tried Panasonic's now-discontinued line of receivers with digital amps [models SA-XR##]?


----------



## CrazyRay

Dunross,
 I'm sorry but that unit is not vintage.
 1980 and earlier is vintage not 2005.
 That is why it sounds like crap.


----------



## Skylab

Well, Scottiebabie, I thank you most sincerely for giving me a nudge on the Pioneer SX-1250.  I picked it up at lunch, and let me tell you, it was lust at first sight, but really and truly LOVE at first LISTEN.  The thing sounds absolutely AMAZING.  I am really impressed.  Not that it would really have an excuse to sound bad - I have never before seen a receiver that was built quite like this.  Lifting it is VERY difficult.  I have also never seen a toroidal transformer as big as this one in my life, and I have seen a LOT of gear.  It's really astonishing.  Listened for a bit with both the Senn HD800 and the LCD-2, and it drove both at a level that you would have to spend much more than $1K to get from a dedicated headphone amp.  For the $600 I paid, it's just ridiculous.  And the tuner is absolutely outstanding. 
   
  Now, for the fun part:


----------



## dunross

This is my source and path out:  Foobar2000>USB>Musiland Monitor 02>vintage amp or receiver.
   
  I have alot of music in Flac format, some Wav and a little 320K MP3. I also listen to internet radio thru Foobar although I am looking for a more user-friendly way of handling internet radio. I also have the fantastic Sony XRD-F1HD for FM. I enjoy rotating my vintage amps every now and then I will post a few more pictures in a bit.
   
  The Musiland is a terrific little device but I am going to upgrade my DAC at some point. 
  
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> Sweet!
> What source are you using?


----------



## sling5s

That's just ridiculously looks amazing.  That is going on my wish/want list. Congrats! 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, Scottiebabie, I thank you most sincerely for giving me a nudge on the Pioneer SX-1250.  I picked it up at lunch, and let me tell you, it was lust at first sight, but really and truly LOVE at first LISTEN.  The thing sounds absolutely AMAZING.  I am really impressed.  Not that it would really have an excuse to sound bad - I have never before seen a receiver that was built quite like this.  Lifting it is VERY difficult.  I have also never seen a toroidal transformer as big as this one in my life, and I have seen a LOT of gear.  It's really astonishing.  Listened for a bit with both the Senn HD800 and the LCD-2, and it drove both at a level that you would have to spend much more than $1K to get from a dedicated headphone amp.  For the $600 I paid, it's just ridiculous.  And the tuner is absolutely outstanding.
> 
> Now, for the fun part:


----------



## scottiebabie

Ooooooyyyaaaaaa! u actually bought it! LOL! i've lusted after it ever since i saw & heard it. at that time i found it hard to justify being an owner just to power headphones. plus that beast suxs like 1200w - not sure what it consumes at idle but for sure theres non of the standby mode crap. watch for how the rooms light go dim when u flip it on! 
   
  now that i've found my "headamp", im gonna start spring cleaning on the rest of the gear & cherry pick some collectable amps of which the SX1250 is a musthave. im very happy to hear that u think so highly of its headout - im not hallucinating afterall as the ears tells me my current rig sounds pretty awesome but its hard to know without some good respected gear as a means of comparo. 
   
  O & Congrats! it was my pleasure to give yo butt a kick in "right" direction. LOLLLLL!
   
  ps:if ya really sincere, u can buy me a bottle if u ever find yourself in my neck of the woods


----------



## scottiebabie

the thing sounds like crap cos surprize of all suprizes, its got a crap dedicated headamp! the best cleanest output is always off the main amp - if it sounds lousy, then either the amps lousy to begin with or its a mismatch load. IMO ofcos
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





dunross said:


> I have a Panasonic sa-xr55. It is a 7.1 receiver. They achieved some renown a few years back for their digital amps. I have it hooked up to a TV in the kids' play room. I have one or two vintage pieces that sound better to me on my speaker rig but it does a credible job nonetheless. More to the point of this thread, my digital receiver has one of the worst headphone amps I have ever heard.


----------



## dunross

Thanks Scottie for the welcome. Yes, up to this point I have only used Denons and Grados on my vintage pieces. Between us we have the whole range covered. Every vintage piece I've tried has done an admirable job; some better than others but all quite good.
   
  I have often wondered if I am missing out on something by not using a dedicated head amp so this thread is providing great info for me. My vintage gear was sounding so good that it just didn't make sense to me when I would read that integrated amps and receivers were inferior. I must admit there are still quite a few dedicated amps I am dying to try. In order for me to pull the trigger on a dedicated, the piece will have to multi-task. I am most interested in ones that can serve as dacs and preamps as well. I am itchin' to try the new Burson that has gotten great reviews as a dac and pre as well as a head amp. At some point I will get the Decware CSP2 Pre that is known as a wonderful head amp.
   
  Skylab's opinion is much valued on the board. I am looking forward to anything he might have to say regarding our beloved vintage amps. It could cause quite a stir. That's always fun. And his opinion holds sway over me too, which is why I am currently waiting for delivery of an Optonica SM-7305 that I grabbed off the bay the other day for 89 bux.
   
  Thanks to Sky and the others who introduced me to Optonica.    
  
  Quote:Originally Posted by *scottiebabie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

  @dunross nice  integrated marantz & i see u're power a low Z Denon with it. i know the old school way of stepping the down the voltage after pulling out the signal offa main amps out with resistors works very well with high Z cans but 'xeptin the 38ohm HE5-LE, i dont have any nice low z cans to try it out.
   
  O & a big welcome to the club as its nice to have another true believer. i've stuck to my guns cos i believe what my ears tell me & after trying out over a dozen amps, my ears tells me they sound very very good. it would be much better id i had access to a real hi end dedicated headamp as a means of comparo but i guess having skylab do it for me is the next best thing. so S'labdude better get yo ass in gear & brings us some reviews. LOL
   
  @Zida i just thought of what u said about wanting something clean & neutral so im gonna throw u a coupla curve balls to catch. in my vintage travels, my ears have been telling me that Technics & Yamahas lean more toward that neck of the woods than the more popular standards like Marantz, 'Suis, & Pioneers. my Technics SA-400 sounds exceptional clean, quick & transparent - infact too much so for my orthos but great with the darker Senns. ditto for a Yami CA610 i've heard.
   
  so these two particular makes mite be exactly what the doc ordered for u. indeed i personally would pick up the Yami CA810 & above series of integrated cos they have an internal switch that allows one to run in pure class A - i bliv 15w per for the CA810 up to 25w per for higher models. something for u to chew on. 
   
  addon:O & Frank before u put the triple hex on me, there's no intention on my part to ruffle any feathers nor any thoughts of diss'in your 2220 or any Marantz for that matter. heck one of my 1st purchases was a 2250 & it was darn good. i merely used overated as a means of objection to the ridiculous resale values they command nowadays. dont mean they're arent good - just not for the prices they go for now cos there's aplenty that just as good IMO for much less dosh.
   
  that said, i do bliv that a better trafo & psu improves the sound. all things being equal, if we just upgraded the psu on any amp, what would the resultant be. now moving up another step, if a true dual mono psu design was implemented, what then. at the very least thats what a higher output brings to the table.
   
  these amps were built in the "golden/silver era" in combination with the receiver power wars basically ensured each mfgr gave their best both in technology & parts. power outputs werent just some opaque obsure meaningless numbers & bench testing showed that most of them output'd more than stated. this can only be achieved when the power supply is over designed & over built at the very least.


----------



## dunross

Don't be sorry Ray. I know it isn't vintage. Someone inquired about it earlier in the thread. I was merely providing an accommodation.
  
  Quote: 





crazyray said:


> Dunross,
> I'm sorry but that unit is not vintage.
> 1980 and earlier is vintage not 2005.
> That is why it sounds like crap.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Ooooooyyyaaaaaa! u actually bought it! LOL! i've lusted after it ever since i saw & heard it. at that time i found it hard to justify being an owner just to power headphones. plus that beast suxs like 1200w - not sure what it consumes at idle but for sure theres non of the standby mode crap. watch for how the rooms light go dim when u flip it on!
> 
> now that i've found my "headamp", im gonna start spring cleaning on the rest of the gear & cherry pick some collectable amps of which the SX1250 is a musthave. im very happy to hear that u think so highly of its headout - im not hallucinating afterall as the ears tells me my current rig sounds pretty awesome but its hard to know without some good respected gear as a means of comparo.
> 
> ...


 


  Dead serious, and will be very happy to buy you a few drinks if I'm ever out your way, and I probably will be at some point, as I travel a lot for work.
   
  The SX-1250 a pretty amazing piece of kit.  No doubt.  I've got the unholy trinity now - vintage Marantz, Sansui, and Pioneer.  The games can begin in earnest!


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> the thing sounds like crap cos surprize of all suprizes, its got a crap dedicated headamp! the best cleanest output is always off the main amp - if it sounds lousy, then either the amps lousy to begin with or its a mismatch load. IMO ofcos


 


 That's true in many cases but not all (and remember, many if not most dedicated amps use op amps) . I personally prefer HP jacks to be driven from the main amp but my Onkyo 9555 integrated uses a dedicated head amp and sounds brilliant. With their higher-end stuff Onkyo seem to have gone to the trouble of designing a really good sounding head amp, and they may not be the only ones. As always it's a case of suck it and see.


----------



## scottiebabie

its a date!  wait....that just sounds so wrong & vancouver does have more than its fair of the "alternative" lifestyle (2nd only to San Fran as i hear it)! hehe. lets just call it a mini headfi meet should u come my way....wait that dont sound so right either! LMAO!
  
 hows this - u get the drinks i get the sushi. hope u like raw fish & stuff as we prolly have some of the best sushi outside japan. & cheap too! hows $10.99 all u can eat sushi or $8 for a big plate (im understating here) of spicy salmon sashimi! & dont worry bout gettin the raw (pun intended) end of the deal as im a cheap drunk. heh
  
 actually too bad u didnt get the 'Sui G9000 as thats more a direct competitor to the SX1250. regardless Pioneer receivers ranks in the top while Sansui's strength was in its intergrateds & tuners. another beast would be the Kenwood KR9600 should a sweet deal catch your eye.
  
 but onwards with your much anticipated headfi game changing vintage amps vs dedicated headamps game of death. we all know who wins in bang for the buck, who goes loud, who powers speakers, who has radio, who does MC phono, who has up to 6 inputs, who has the biggest trafos, who weighs a ton, who has tone controls, so on & so on! hehe
    
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Dead serious, and will be very happy to buy you a few drinks if I'm ever out your way, and I probably will be at some point, as I travel a lot for work.
> 
> The SX-1250 a pretty amazing piece of kit.  No doubt.  I've got the unholy trinity now - vintage Marantz, Sansui, and Pioneer.  The games can begin in earnest!


----------



## Skylab

Yeah there is NO DOUBT that where value is concerned, this is where it's at. Right now I am sitting in the dark, the only light coming off the face of the SX1250, playing Dark Side of the Moon. It's the closest I have felt to being 13 again in a long, long time...and I'm digging it  But the sound isn't nostalgic - it's just plain killer.


----------



## moodyrn

Does it gives you leben any competition. I know it's ss vs tube, but does it come as close to being as enjoyable?


----------



## Skylab

Well they are both VERY enjoyable!  At this point I still personally prefer the Leben. But I've only spent a few hours with the Pioneer, and it has been very impressive (also only used it with the LCD-2 so far).  And the TUNER - holy crap is it good.  Tuner is even better than the Marantz's, for sure.  I need to try the phono.  If it's good, which it very likely is, then let's see, I got a great tuner, a great phono preamp, a great headphone amp, all for $600, before you even consider that it will drive 95% of speakers in the world...yeah, that strikes me as the bargain of the century.


----------



## scompton

An Optonica SA-5206 receiver was just delivered.  It's very neutral sounding with plenty of power to drive my vintage orthos.


----------



## Skylab

VERY nice!!!  Optonica stuff is really good stuff, based on my experience with the 7305 integrated.


----------



## CrazyRay

It looks like something that Darth would own!!!
   






  
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> An Optonica SA-5206 receiver was just delivered.  It's very neutral sounding with plenty of power to drive my vintage orthos.


----------



## scompton

Your review and pictures are what convinced me to look at the brand.  They really are nice looking.  I got it from eBay for $80 shipped from an electronics shop.  They advertised in the auction that it was fully tested and cleaned and it sure looks in near mint condition.


----------



## Skylab

That is an absurdly cheap price.  Optonica doesn't have the following that the better known brands do, but the piece I got was so amazingly well built I was blown away.


----------



## scompton

I'm listening to a jazz radio station right now and it really sounds good.


----------



## joehalo

My dad has an older Sansui G-8000 receiver sitting in his basement, anyone know anything about this model?
   
   

  not my picture


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scompton said:


> An Optonica SA-5206 receiver was just delivered.  It's very neutral sounding with plenty of power to drive my vintage orthos.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi scompton - what's the power rating on that one?  I have a 7305.


----------



## scottiebabie

yup its a 120w per of pure old school Sansui power which means muscular warm & very musical. its the 2nd TOTL to the G9000, which is my fav 'Sui receiver, in the X000 series. its equivalent in the Pioneer series is the SX1050/80. to me, the pioneer sounds a tad better as its clean & more neutral though still warm by todays standards but its down to a matter of tastes & which speakers u're powering. in any case its has a great tuner, great looks & is definitely a collectable.
   
  bring it out of mothballs & try it out. i think u mite be pleasantly surprized how good it sounds with your headphones esp AKG K1k, 701 & its ilk as i think they meld wonderfully with leaner cans. YMMV ofcos
  
  Quote: 





joehalo said:


> My dad has an older Sansui G-8000 receiver sitting in his basement, anyone know anything about this model?


----------



## Skylab

Joehalo, that's a very nice receiver! You should see if your Dad will let you "borrow" it


----------



## scottiebabie

Skylab hows it goin wit the comparo?? inquiring minds have a need to know! LOL


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Hi scompton - what's the power rating on that one?  I have a 7305.


 


  Only 45 watts.  I bought a service manual because I couldn't find any information.  The amplification is by a couple of Sharp ICs.  The service manual actually has a circuit diagram for the inside of the IC.


----------



## Skylab

Today I spent quite a bit of time listening to the Pioneer, and comparing it to the Marantz and the Sansui. From the headphone outs, I would put the Pioneer first, but the Marantz is very, very close. The Sansui is also quite good, but it's more colored than the Pioneer or Marantz. So I ranked it third of those three. 

All three of them are absolutely on par from their headphone outs with the WooAudio 6. In fact, i think the Pioneer is better than the Woo WA6 as a headphone amp, and the Marantz very well might be. I need to compare a bit more. My other tube amps - the Trafomatic Head One, WooAudio WA2, Decware MiniTorii, and especially the Leben CS300XS all offer performance that is a little better, in one way or another. The Leben especially offers a silkier treble that is a bit more delicate, while still offering slightly better detail, and has a bit better midrange transparency. The spundstage is also just a little better.

But what was actually most impressive to me is how close the big Japanese receivers are to these dedicated headphone amps in performance. Much, much closer that I ever would have thought. 

I want to do more direct comparisons, and I want to add the Optonica integrated into the mix.


----------



## ACDOAN

So far I have been happy with my discontinued Pio Elite A 35R with 35 WPC which can handle 4ohm load with no sweat. I am always look out for a better amp but I realy feel there is no rush since this $200.00 intergrated can drive any cans to insane level and it sounds freaking good too.


----------



## sling5s

No one believed me and I couldn't believe it too that my vintage receivers (marantz and setton-a higher end receiver made by pioneer and designed by pierre cardan) from a thrift store sounded better than my woo audio 6 but I guess I was right.  
   
  Also, I know you once reviewed the audio gd-c-2.  Does the audio gd c-2 out perform the woo 6 and your vintage receiver or fall below both?
  I'm asking because I just ordered an audio gd c-2 and hoping that it will sound better than my vintage amps. Heard so much about audio gd, just wanted to try their dac and amps. 
   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Today I spent quite a bit of time listening to the Pioneer, and comparing it to the Marantz and the Sansui. From the headphone outs, I would put the Pioneer first, but the Marantz is very, very close. The Sansui is also quite good, but it's more colored than the Pioneer or Marantz. So I ranked it third of those three.
> 
> All three of them are absolutely on par from their headphone outs with the WooAudio 6. In fact, i think the Pioneer is better than the Woo WA6 as a headphone amp, and the Marantz very well might be. I need to compare a bit more. My other tube amps - the Trafomatic Head One, WooAudio WA2, Decware MiniTorii, and especially the Leben CS300XS all offer performance that is a little better, in one way or another. The Leben especially offers a silkier treble that is a bit more delicate, while still offering slightly better detail, and has a bit better midrange transparency. The spundstage is also just a little better.
> 
> ...


----------



## dunross

Looking good scompton. I am hoping my optonica arrives today so I can compare it to my other vintage pieces.
  
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> An Optonica SA-5206 receiver was just delivered.  It's very neutral sounding with plenty of power to drive my vintage orthos.


----------



## Skylab

The Audio-GD product I reviewed was not the C2, it was an older model C-2C.  It was not as good as the Woo Audio WA6, and as such I highly doubt it would compete with any of these big receivers I have, but I have not had the C2C in far too long to say for sure.


----------



## InnerSpace

This is a very cool thread - and very nostalgic.  This is exactly where modern-era headphone listening began ... guys would save up for a pair of Koss Pro-4aa cans and plug them into their dads' big receivers.  Remember?  It's interesting how we've gotten to where we are today, without really traveling too far.  Me, I always wanted a Pioneer SX1980 - 370 watts per channel, I think.  I had never heard of such numbers.  I got a brochure, which is all I could afford.  (Still got it somewhere.)  Now you're making me think of hunting one down.  This crazy hobby ... if we can't find something new to buy, we buy something old!


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Today I spent quite a bit of time listening to the Pioneer, and comparing it to the Marantz and the Sansui. From the headphone outs, I would put the Pioneer first, but the Marantz is very, very close. The Sansui is also quite good, but it's more colored than the Pioneer or Marantz. So I ranked it third of those three.
> 
> All three of them are absolutely on par from their headphone outs with the WooAudio 6. In fact, i think the Pioneer is better than the Woo WA6 as a headphone amp, and the Marantz very well might be. I need to compare a bit more. My other tube amps - the Trafomatic Head One, WooAudio WA2, Decware MiniTorii, and especially the Leben CS300XS all offer performance that is a little better, in one way or another. The Leben especially offers a silkier treble that is a bit more delicate, while still offering slightly better detail, and has a bit better midrange transparency. The spundstage is also just a little better.
> 
> ...


 


 My Pioneer A-447 sounds better than the WA6+Sophia to me. Faster, more resolving, punchier, more transparent. I also think the bass/treble controls make it more versatile than traditional headphone amps.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, the Pioneer SX-1250 have very sophisticated tone controls - bass can be adjusted at either 50 Hz or 100 Hz, and in 2 dB increments.  the +2dB at 50 Hz does WONDERS for the HD800


----------



## moodyrn

That's what I love about vintage audio. The tone control on my fisher uses their own dedicated tube(12ax7) preamp for tone controls. Using tubes for tone control is great because the adjustments sounds natural as oppose to the synthetic or processed sound you get with digital tone controls. I'm not an eq guy, but I find the tone controls on my fisher both usefull and fun. If I adust the bass, it doesn't sound like I'm using an eq. It sounds like an amp with more bass presence.


----------



## ford2

A Sansui modified so that speaker A feeds the 4 pin XLR.Driving K1000 with a RME DIGI 96 as the source.
   
  The RME is set at -20db for effective volume control on the amp,this is needed because of the 130mv input on these older amps.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That's what I love about vintage audio. The tone control on my fisher uses their own dedicated tube(12ax7) preamp for tone controls. Using tubes for tone control is great because the adjustments sounds natural as oppose to the synthetic or processed sound you get with digital tone controls. I'm not an eq guy, but I find the tone controls on my fisher both usefull and fun. *If I adust the bass, it doesn't sound like I'm using an eq. It sounds like an amp with more bass presence.*


 


  That's exactly what I found. I've been using EQs for several years and have found uses for them (moreso for speakers), so I'm not one for general bass/treble controls. However, the seemingly crude bass/treble controls on these are actually very well implemented and sound great. Reminds me of the bass boost on my M^3, which I was also impressed by. This isn't the type of bass boost that adds boominess or muddiness.


----------



## wualta

Good grief, I go away for a couple of days and come back to find you kids have discovered EQ! EQ, of all things! Don't you know using it will keep you from getting into heaven?
   
  I always wondered why I kept seeing Church Of No EQ religious fanatics marching up and down the forums here at HF. Now I think I know-- EQ on modern digital gear (probably digital fake graphic equalizers using maybe 4 bands) must be so absolutely execrably awful that no one in his right mind would seriously believe in it. But now you've discovered properly-implemented EQ with some grunt behind it (very important), and it can be very nice. It's also a handy tool for testing a headphone's mettle. So get out there and enjoy your forbidden fruit.


----------



## Zida

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> @Zida i just thought of what u said about wanting something clean & neutral so im gonna throw u a coupla curve balls to catch. in my vintage travels, my ears have been telling me that Technics & Yamahas lean more toward that neck of the woods than the more popular standards like Marantz, 'Suis, & Pioneers. my Technics SA-400 sounds exceptional clean, quick & transparent - infact too much so for my orthos but great with the darker Senns. ditto for a Yami CA610 i've heard.
> 
> so these two particular makes mite be exactly what the doc ordered for u. indeed i personally would pick up the Yami CA810 & above series of integrated cos they have an internal switch that allows one to run in pure class A - i bliv 15w per for the CA810 up to 25w per for higher models. something for u to chew on.


 
   
  Thanks for the thoughts. I'm really most likely to wind up picking up whats quality and available. The guy with the Pioneer wants to hang onto it and have it fully fixed up before selling it (my hero!). I'm still planning on picking it up, but I'll keep my eyes open for some Technics and Yamahas. I'm not against owning two amps and running some A/B to pick out my favorite.


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Good grief, I go away for a couple of days and come back to find you kids have discovered EQ! EQ, of all things! Don't you know using it will keep you from getting into heaven?
> 
> I always wondered why I kept seeing Church Of No EQ religious fanatics marching up and down the forums here at HF. Now I think I know-- EQ on modern digital gear (probably digital fake graphic equalizers using maybe 4 bands) must be so absolutely execrably awful that no one in his right mind would seriously believe in it. But now you've discovered properly-implemented EQ with some grunt behind it (very important), and it can be very nice. It's also a handy tool for testing a headphone's mettle. So get out there and enjoy your forbidden fruit.


 
   
  Not sure if you're referring to me but,
   
  I use a parametric software EQ (64 band) and I've used it for years...If you know how to use it properly, then it can be way better than the hardware bass/treble controls that are on these amps. The latter are just more convenient, quicker, and nice-sounding for a 2-knob control, that's all I'm saying.
   
  But, EQ can only change tone and takes time to properly use. The No-EQ purists exist because they know that component upgrades are a better way to change your sound as they yield improvements in more than just tonal balance.


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





shahrose said:


> The No-EQ purists exist because they know that component upgrades are a better way to change your sound as they yield improvements in more than just tonal balance.


 


 That's true but there's another aspect, which is that no matter how satisfied you think you are with one setting you'll eventually find a recording it doesn't suit and be tempted to change it, thus setting off an endless cycle. EQ is great as a fun thing, but it's just too easy and tempting to fiddle with and for that reason alone I doubt it can lead to permanent satisfaction. Still, whatever floats the old boat...


----------



## Shahrose

Quote: 





pp312 said:


> That's true but there's another aspect, which is that no matter how satisfied you think you are with one setting you'll eventually find a recording it doesn't suit and be tempted to change it, thus setting off an endless cycle. EQ is great as a fun thing, but it's just too easy and tempting to fiddle with and for that reason alone I doubt it can lead to permanent satisfaction. Still, whatever floats the old boat...


 

 I agree. I try to avoid it as much as possible, but it's very useful for say, helping to remove room resonances for speakers in a room etc. (Sorry for the OT posts...no more from me).


----------



## moodyrn

Lets stay on topic here. Eq discussion is for another forum. This has been discussed enough on this thread.


----------



## Frank I

The question I have which were the best receiver from the 1970's What about some othe Sansui like the 8080B and 5000G were they good or just average. I know about the ones Rob has and the Pioneer. Would like some input on the lower power ones as well and Scottie I know you know so input appreciated. I can get the G5000 in the State for less than 150.00 and a 8080 for 250.00 would these be good receivers for the headphones as i really only use the tube amps with the speakers. The 8080B is in Kansas


----------



## scottiebabie

hey Frank u know u're asking a loaded question esp for someone with your discerning tastes. personally i like the G series as its the beefier macho looker of the two. sonics on headphones OTOH is a serious toss. only way to tell is to try it out for yourself.
   
  FWIW pricing on both seems to be within reason. if u arent in a big rush or have a need for instant gratification, i'd wait a while til a unit comes along locally. if it were me, i'd wait for a G8000 or G9000 as those are real collectables with very good SQ, to my ears. better yet, keep a lookout & invest in a G22000 & u'd have it all.
   
  seems to me u already have/had your share of amps so why dick 'round. same advise for u as skylab - go for the top echelons of receivers & u wont look back. bliv in the God Nike & JUST DO IT!!! LOL 
   
  ps:if u really want a Sansui to power headphones, look into the all dual mono designs of 'Suis AU517/717 819/919 quad amps. one can pick up a 517 for round $200 (i think) & its a serious amp. only 65w per but unbelievable build & absolutely over designed for what it is - dual trafos down to the output. its one of the best vintage intergrateds evar! its my fav esp for hifiman orthos. as Arsenio Hall use to say......Hmmmmmmmmmm....! heh


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> hey Frank u know u're asking a loaded question esp for someone with your discerning tastes. personally i like the G series as its the beefier macho looker of the two. sonics on headphones OTOH is a serious toss. only way to tell is to try it out for yourself.
> 
> FWIW pricing on both seems to be within reason. if u arent in a big rush or have a need for instant gratification, i'd wait a while til a unit comes along locally. if it were me, i'd wait for a G8000 or G9000 as those are real collectables with very good SQ, to my ears. better yet, keep a lookout & invest in a G22000 & u'd have it all.
> 
> ...


 


 thanks


----------



## Inkmo

I have an old Pioneer SX-828 that I had fixed up recently.  Been thinking about new speakers for it.  Guy at the hifi shop near my house said it should be able to drive most of the stuff in his shop on its own.  I think it's pretty warm sounding and there's noticeable hiss with my easier to drive headphones.  I don't spend much headphone time with it, though I should.  I have a pair of Fostexes and a pair of Grados I use with it.
   
  One thing I've noticed is that my turntable playing through it seems to be at a bit lower level and much bassier than sources coming through the tape monitor or aux input (I have to turn the volume up further to achieve similar sound levels).  Don't know if it's the Pioneer's phono amp or if it's my Thorens or Shure cart.


----------



## Skylab

That the phono input is lower in level is not a great surprise - a modern CD player will have a much higher voltage level hitting the AUX input than what was available back then.  The "much bassier" part is harder to say, might be the cartridge, might be the Pioneer's phono stage.


----------



## ACDOAN

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Good grief, I go away for a couple of days and come back to find you kids have discovered EQ! EQ, of all things! Don't you know using it will keep you from getting into heaven?
> 
> I always wondered why I kept seeing Church Of No EQ religious fanatics marching up and down the forums here at HF. Now I think I know-- EQ on modern digital gear (probably digital fake graphic equalizers using maybe 4 bands) must be so absolutely execrably awful that no one in his right mind would seriously believe in it. But now you've discovered properly-implemented EQ with some grunt behind it (very important), and it can be very nice. It's also a handy tool for testing a headphone's mettle. So get out there and enjoy your forbidden fruit.


 
  May I add that there is also a Church Of No EQ / No Tone Control ?


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





inkmo said:


> One thing I've noticed is that my turntable playing through it seems to be at a bit lower level and much bassier than sources coming through the tape monitor or aux input (I have to turn the volume up further to achieve similar sound levels).  Don't know if it's the Pioneer's phono amp or if it's my Thorens or Shure cart.


 

 If you're playing U.S. vinyl with a Shure cartridge, the signal reaching your phono amp "expects" to be de-emphasized via the U.S.-standard RIAA curve.  But - amazingly - that standard wasn't respected internationally in the 70s (even the 80s) ... foreign manufacturers used their own local interpretations, and were happy to, especially if they gave a little warmth in markets expecting something different.  Thus, what you're hearing is almost certainly because Pioneer's RIAA tuning was individual to Japan, and perhaps even to them.
   
  And yes, today's 0db=2v line levels were an 80s invention, much higher than previously.


----------



## Aris488

Hi,
   
  Is anyone know about vintage amp PIONEER SA 9100 and how it compare with vintage MARANTZ and SANSUI?
   
  I plan to buy one on EBAY for about 400 USD, restaured and in mint condition.
   
  Thanks.
   
  Cheers.
   
  Chris.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





inkmo said:


> I have an old Pioneer SX-828. ...I think it's pretty warm sounding and there's noticeable hiss with my easier to drive headphones. One thing I've noticed is that my turntable playing through it seems to be at a bit lower level and much bassier than sources coming through the tape monitor or aux input.  Don't know if it's the Pioneer's phono amp or if it's my Thorens or Shure cart.


 
  This is arguably even more OT than EQ, but WTH. You've had these for a few years, correct? So I'm assuming this is not a new problem. While it's possible the cables on the Thorens are old high-capacitance cables which would tend to roll off the highs, my gut feeling is it's the RIAA section drifting off spec. It might just be time to swap your old Pioneer for something a bit newer and but still TOTL. Alternatively, you could put the 828 under the knife and replace parts in the RIAA network.


----------



## grokit

Or if you have an outboard phono stage lying around try that with a different input to help narrow down the issue a bit more.


----------



## BmWr75

The 9100 was the TOTL Pioneer integrated amp in its day.  I have one in a 2 channel system.  But have not listened to the HP out.
  
  Quote: 





aris488 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Is anyone know about vintage amp PIONEER SA 9100 and how it compare with vintage MARANTZ and SANSUI?
> 
> ...


----------



## scottiebabie

$400 for a "only" 60watter Pioneer amp seems a tad too much atleast over this side of the pond. for some perspective, there's a SA-9100 TX-8100 amp tuner combo sitting unsold for close to a month with the seller asking $300 (sans shipping). he claims it to be mint too but ofcos a full shop certified & backed refurb unit is a much safer (&prolly better) proposition as it could easily cost up to $200 for the work, depending how much is done. personally i wouldnt pay anymore than $200-250 max for the unit.
   
  that said, if the SA-9100 sounds anything like my SA-7500 & SX450, im sure u're gonna be very happy with the sound. IMO the Pioneer is everybit the equal of corresponding Marantzs sharin6g similar sonic traits. unfortunetly both my Marantzs have been sold so im basing this opinion purely on memory. my Sansui AU-517 -also a 65watter equivalent- is prolly a tad warmer/organic or perhaps a tad less tizzy up top is more of a different flavor & a laterally upgrade than anything. hope this helps.


----------



## REB

To revisit the tone control/eq issue: I noticed that when I use my kenwood ka7002 I really need the tone controls to adjust the sound to different recordings. I am not sure why, but there seems to be much more sensitivity (for lack of a better word) with regard to differnences in recordings. The bass and treble controls are pretty sophisticated (for a 1971 amp): 150 and 300hz for the bass and 6000 hz and 2000 hz for the treble and while I never used tone controls on any of my other amps, I now do with the kenwood. Simply because it sounds better to use them.
   
  Different question, but has anyone experience with vintage akai and onkyo receivers?


----------



## Skylab

Again, I think the tone controls on many amps if this era were very well implemented, and that's likely why you are enjoying their use.
   
  I agree we should NOT let this thread turn into a religious discussion about EQ, but questions/issues related to specific implementations of vintage gear's tone controls seem pretty reasonable to me.  But I am NOT the OP, so I will let Moodryn make that call.
   
  Innerspace, great post about the RIAA curves being different in Japan and US.  I was not aware of that.  I have not tried the phono section of my receivers yet, but I plan to soon.


----------



## REB

Quote: 





> I agree we should NOT let this thread turn into a religious discussion about EQ, but questions/issues related to specific implementations of vintage gear's tone controls seem pretty reasonable to me.  But I am NOT the OP, so I will let Moodryn make that call.


 

 Agreed. I also feel that specific discussion of the usage of tone controls of vintage gear is reasonable in this thread, but I will abide by Moodryn's decision as well.
   
  Meanwhile, I am still struggling (in a pleasant sense) to make sense of the kenwood's sound signature. It seems to differ depending on what you feed it. Much more so than any of my other (vintage) gear.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Innerspace, great post about the RIAA curves being different in Japan and US.  I was not aware of that.  I have not tried the phono section of my receivers yet, but I plan to soon.


 

 Thanks.  It's a real "Who'd have thought?" thing, isn't it?  At the beginning, each record company would do it differently, never mind each country or regional market.  There was a sustained effort in the 1950s toward standardization, but it failed.  And even as late as the 1980s, in Eastern Europe and Asia, different record companies were still doing it differently.  Hardware companies went for whatever compromise worked locally.  The technical goal was the same, so outcomes weren't vastly dissimilar, but even so, with an emphatic +20db/-20db EQ process, small variations will be readily audible.


----------



## musicman59

I just bought his Luxman LV-105 hybrid inteated amplifier. I remember a friend used to own it in the late 80s and it was very nice. It should be here in a few days.


----------



## Aris488

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> $400 for a "only" 60watter Pioneer amp seems a tad too much atleast over this side of the pond. for some perspective, there's a SA-9100 TX-8100 amp tuner combo sitting unsold for close to a month with the seller asking $300 (sans shipping). he claims it to be mint too but ofcos a full shop certified & backed refurb unit is a much safer (&prolly better) proposition as it could easily cost up to $200 for the work, depending how much is done. personally i wouldnt pay anymore than $200-250 max for the unit.
> 
> that said, if the SA-9100 sounds anything like my SA-7500 & SX450, im sure u're gonna be very happy with the sound. IMO the Pioneer is everybit the equal of corresponding Marantzs sharin6g similar sonic traits. unfortunetly both my Marantzs have been sold so im basing this opinion purely on memory. my Sansui AU-517 -also a 65watter equivalent- is prolly a tad warmer/organic or perhaps a tad less tizzy up top is more of a different flavor & a laterally upgrade than anything. hope this helps.


 

 Thanks for your reply and advices Scottiebabie. I'll wait for a cheaper one or a certified. Is the heaphone out on par with dedicated headphone amps SS or valve, like Skylab said for his vintage ?


----------



## Aris488

Thanks for your reply BmWr75.
   
  Have you listened to the heaphone out? how it sounds? i plan to listen 1/2 HP and 1/2 headphone.

  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The 9100 was the TOTL Pioneer integrated amp in its day.  I have one in a 2 channel system.  But have not listened to the HP out.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Again, I think the tone controls on many amps if this era were very well implemented, and that's likely why you are enjoying their use.
> 
> I agree we should NOT let this thread turn into a religious discussion about EQ, but questions/issues related to specific implementations of vintage gear's tone controls seem pretty reasonable to me.  But I am NOT the OP, so I will let Moodryn make that call.
> 
> Innerspace, great post about the RIAA curves being different in Japan and US.  I was not aware of that.  I have not tried the phono section of my receivers yet, but I plan to soon.


 


   


  Quote: 





reb said:


> Agreed. I also feel that specific discussion of the usage of tone controls of vintage gear is reasonable in this thread, but I will abide by Moodryn's decision as well.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am still struggling (in a pleasant sense) to make sense of the kenwood's sound signature. It seems to differ depending on what you feed it. Much more so than any of my other (vintage) gear.


 

 I have no problem with the discussion of tone controls/eq as it relates to vintage gear. But others had started turning this into an eq thread making comments that didn't have anything to do with vintage or amps in general. They were based on whether you are a believer or not and why you should be or shouldn't be. Basically turning it into a thread that shouldn't even be in amp, headphones, dac threads at all. But the thread limited to sound science. But discussing the merits of tone controls as it relates to vintaged gear is something very relevant and completely different altogether.


----------



## REB

Nice! I've been on the verge of buying this one myself a couple of times. Am very interested to hear what a hybrid luxman sounds like. Do let us know!
  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just bought his Luxman LV-105 hybrid inteated amplifier. I remember a friend used to own it in the late 80s and it was very nice. It should be here in a few days.


----------



## BmWr75

I just have the SA9100 headphone out a quick listen.  The sound quality is very acceptable.  This is a very good vintage amp (~35 years old) and mine has had significant refurbishment work done.  Due to age, all vintage equipment may require some refurbishing (capacitor replacement mainly).
   
  Quote: 





aris488 said:


> Thanks for your reply BmWr75.
> 
> Have you listened to the heaphone out? how it sounds? i plan to listen 1/2 HP and 1/2 headphone.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





aris488 said:


> Thanks for your reply and advices Scottiebabie. I'll wait for a cheaper one or a certified. Is the heaphone out on par with dedicated headphone amps SS or valve, like Skylab said for his vintage ?


 
  youre welcome mon ami. as to how good the headout is, i think my vintage amps drives my headphones wonderfully & is as good if not better than anything i've heard. but let me clarify factually that i have not heard much headamps nevermind any of the TOTL stuff SS or tubes, lest the headfi nazis deem me guilty & banish me for such heresy! heh
   
  me thinks its best of u to direct that question to Skylab as he has or atleast had access to a slew of headamps with the creme de la creme amongst them. now he even dabbled into vintage gear & currently has a few very respected receivers & amps to count amongst his playtoys. infact if im not mistaken, his review & comparo of his various vintage receivers&amps with a dedicated headamp comparo thrown it should be out shortly.
   
  u heard it Skylab - get ya ass in gear as inquiring minds want to know! LOL


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just bought his Luxman LV-105 hybrid inteated amplifier. I remember a friend used to own it in the late 80s and it was very nice. It should be here in a few days.


 
   
  Nice! One of the first, last and only pieces that Alpine did right after they took the American market for Luxman and destroyed the brand back then..... couldn't keep a good one down though.


----------



## ford2

Well this just reached $800 so that takes me out of the bidding.
   
  And still 5 days to go.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sansui-G-7000-Pure-Power-DC-Monster-Receiver-RARE-MINT-/180640573307?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2a0f04677b


----------



## REB

Oh wow, that's a hefty price already! But it is probably worth it and hifi equipment is much more expensive in Australia (sadly; when I worked in Canberra, I looked up a hifi shop to buy a pair of k701s, but declined when the shop owner politely informed me they would be $1000 AUD....). I have its smaller sibling at home, a g3000 and it's wonderful. No frills, but beautifully engineered (the volume knob alone must be worth buying it for!) and great sound.
  
  Quote: 





ford2 said:


> Well this just reached $800 so that takes me out of the bidding.
> 
> And still 5 days to go.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sansui-G-7000-Pure-Power-DC-Monster-Receiver-RARE-MINT-/180640573307?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2a0f04677b


----------



## REB

I keep being amazed by the (seeming) (differences in sound signature of the kenwood ka7002. I would say that it is a warmish amp, as you would expect of an early 70s Japanese overengineered amp, but I am now listening to an audiophile recording of vivaldi's four seasons and I've had to lower the treble tone controls because it is sounding brightish. The violins sounded as if they were piercing my ears. I've toned down the treble a bit and it sounds very good again. Spacious, detailed, good separation, musical. I'm liking the kenwood a lot, but understanding it less every time I listen to it.


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately my work schedule the next few weeks will prevent any sort of formal review soon - but my experience with the 3 vintage receivers I have certainly says that if they are in good condition, and that if their size and weight is not an issue for you, and that if you can get one at a good price, that you get WAAAAAY more for your headphone listening dollar this way than by buying dedicated amps.  The Pioneer 1250 blows away any headphone amp I have ever heard for the $600 I paid for it.


----------



## scompton

Just received a Kyocera R-851 that I won  on eBay for $77 shipped.  I've been low ball bidding on these for a couple of years and finally got one because it has a little damage to the wood sides.   It functions perfectly though except for some noisy controls.  For those who like tone controls, this is the receiver for you.  It has +- 10dB bass, mid, and treble stepped controls.  Another set of knobs control which frequencies are effected.  100, 125, 160, 200, 250, 320, 400, or 500 Hz for bass, 500, 630, 800, 1K, 1.25K, 1.6K, or 2K for mids, and 2K, 2.5K, 3.2K, 4K, 5K, 6.3K, 8K, or 10K for treble.
   
  Here's a picture of it sitting on top of the Optonica


----------



## Aris488

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I just have the SA9100 headphone out a quick listen.  The sound quality is very acceptable.  This is a very good vintage amp (~35 years old) and mine has had significant refurbishment work done.  Due to age, all vintage equipment may require some refurbishing (capacitor replacement mainly).


 


   


  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> youre welcome mon ami. as to how good the headout is, i think my vintage amps drives my headphones wonderfully & is as good if not better than anything i've heard. but let me clarify factually that i have not heard much headamps nevermind any of the TOTL stuff SS or tubes, lest the headfi nazis deem me guilty & banish me for such heresy! heh
> 
> me thinks its best of u to direct that question to Skylab as he has or atleast had access to a slew of headamps with the creme de la creme amongst them. now he even dabbled into vintage gear & currently has a few very respected receivers & amps to count amongst his playtoys. infact if im not mistaken, his review & comparo of his various vintage receivers&amps with a dedicated headamp comparo thrown it should be out shortly.
> 
> u heard it Skylab - get ya ass in gear as inquiring minds want to know! LOL


 


 Thanks again BmWr75 & scottiebabie!


----------



## wualta

You, sir, are the new Kyocera Ninja. That's what the AK guys call a _scroe--_ a really good score. You've got one from the first year of production. Let us know how it goes.
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> Just received a Kyocera R-851 that I won  on eBay for $77 shipped.


----------



## REB

I'd like a few of those... or just one...


----------



## REB

I'd like a few of those... or just one...


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> You, sir, are the new Kyocera Ninja. That's what the AK guys call a _scroe--_ a really good score. You've got one from the first year of production. Let us know how it goes.


 


   
  It's amazing how much the price drops with a little cosmetic damage. 
   
  It's sounding great.  It's a bit warmer sounding than the Optionica or Hitachi I have at work.  I'm listening with  a Fostex T20v2 right now and it complements it well.  The only real problem is that the gain is too high.  I have the volume slider at less than 1. 
   
  The really good news is that the freon heat pipe is working.  I've read on other sites that that could be a problem.  The small heat sink is a little warmer than the big one, but not by much.
   
  Reb,  I saw that picture yesterday on this thread http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75731.
   
   
  Quote: 





> The pic is from the cover of the May 1978 issue of Stereo Review Magazine showing some of the Monster Receivers together (from top to bottom they are the Nikko NR-1415, Hitachi SR-2004, Kenwood KR-9600, Marantz 2600, Rotel RX-1603 and Pioneer SX-1980)


----------



## Skylab

Here is how good I think the Pioneer SX1250 is as a headphone amp - I just ordered a second pair of LCD-2's so I can have a pair for the office connected to the Pioneer full-time


----------



## moodyrn

The lcd-2's must have really good synergy with the pioneer. Everytime I save up a little for a vintage receiver, I spend it on something else. Last time it was tubes, this time another pair of headphones. But one day I will have one to go along side my fisher.


----------



## REB

Quote: 





scompton said:


> Reb,  I saw that picture yesterday on this thread http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75731.


 
  Got if from an Ebay ad for a kenwood/trio receiver (something 9600).


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here is how good I think the Pioneer SX1250 is as a headphone amp - I just ordered a second pair of LCD-2's so I can have a pair for the office connected to the Pioneer full-time


 


  My newly arrived LCD-2s sound great with the Sansui 7000 I posted on earlier in this thread.


----------



## Skylab

I bet they do!  They just love having all that power to play with - so do the HE-6.


----------



## FrankWong

I used to have a Marantz 2230 that sounds like heaven with paired with brighter headphones like Grados. Very good value considering it's also got a great FM tuner, phono pre and other goodies.
   
  - FW


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





scompton said:


> The only real problem is that the gain is too high.  I have the volume slider at less than 1.


 
  Try using the -20dB mute button.
  
  Does the tuner work?


----------



## Skylab

That -20dB mute button is awesome. Wish all receivers had it.


----------



## Frank I

This is what came today. It on itw way back to the seller and I left negative feedback and opened an Ebay case. Tomorrow I go look at a Luxman 1040 from a local seller, That the best part of it in the picture


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





frank i said:


> This is what came today. It on itw way back to the seller and I left negative feedback and opened an Ebay case. Tomorrow I go look at a Luxman 1040 from a local seller, That the best part of it in the picture


 


  Plus I have emails stating no chips no scratches in mint condition. And this is from a 100 percent positive feedback so beware when you looking ebay. This is the worst condition I have ever seen a piece. The dust and cord looked like they been as old as the receiver.


----------



## flaming_june

I actually have more skepticism buying from 100% positive feedback sellers on ebay than one that isn't perfect. My past experiences indicates to me that everyone does things like that once in a while.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Try using the -20dB mute button.
> 
> Does the tuner work?


 

  
  I saw that button and promptly forgot about it.  It's great.  Now the volume slider's on 3.  The power meters even flicker a little.
   
  The tuner works great.  Stations are at the correct frequency and are very clear even without an antenna.  Seek doesn't work without an antenna, but there's only a few stations I really listen too so that doesn't matter.


  Quote: 





frank i said:


> This is what came today. It on itw way back to the seller and I left negative feedback and opened an Ebay case. Tomorrow I go look at a Luxman 1040 from a local seller, That the best part of it in the picture


 
   
  The Kyocera has even more damage but it was fully disclosed in the auction with pictures,  It's obviously been dropped more than once but it's a tank.  The wood on the top and bottom left corners has been crushed with only slight damage to the metal on the top left.


----------



## Skylab

That's a bummer, Frank.  Fortunately the guy who shipped me a Pioneer SX-780 with poor packaging refunded my money without my needing to leave negative feedback or open a case.  But after that I vowed to buy locally only, and the two receivers I bought here in Chicagoland are awesome.


----------



## Frank I

Rob I had emails from this seller telling me there were no scratching,no chip and it was their personal receiver and no way would I be unhappy with this one. No answers to my emails and frankly people need to know this seller is not selling the proper way. I opened the case because I feel not only should get the money and shipping back plus the return shipping. We live and learn. Negative feedback in this instance was really called for. Local at least you can see it which is the way i bought the 2220B and hopefully find one at the guys home tomorrow that will be as nice. He telling me the Luxman 1040 is super nice.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I saw that button and promptly forgot about it.  It's great.  Now the volume slider's on 3.  The power meters even flicker a little.
> 
> The tuner works great.  Stations are at the correct frequency and are very clear even without an antenna.  Seek doesn't work without an antenna, but there's only a few stations I really listen too so that doesn't matter.
> 
> ...


 


  If I would seen all the pictures and I ionly showed one (Rob seen them all) the receiver wI got was way worse and when i asked I got an email it no scrates or chip my personal receiver and you will be happy with it. Not only was it misrepresented in ebay add but the pictures I have of the back clearly show it has not even been plugged in in years and so bad i would be afraid to plug it in. Plain simple it should not be sold. At least your selller was honest and it was your choice my seller flat out lied.


----------



## Frank I




----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





frank i said:


>


 


  The rest are as bad or worse. Its gone. I sent it out as fast as it was unpacked it went back.


----------



## cifani090

This is my new favorite thread
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





all i can say is wow


----------



## wualta

Quote:


scompton said:


> I saw that button and promptly forgot about it.  It's great.  Now the volume slider's on 3.  The power meters even flicker a little.
> 
> The tuner works great.  Seek doesn't work without an antenna, but there's only a few stations I really listen too so that doesn't matter.  It's a tank.


 
  Glad you found the "mute" (we should call it a "pad" but "mute" will do) useful. That volume slider works well but some folks complain that it's difficult to make fine adjustments near the bottom; with sensitive headphones (which didn't exist in 1982) it's true-- you'd be in trouble without that -20dB switch.
   
  Glad also to hear the tuner works. It *is* an excellent tuner (stick a foot and a half of hookup wire in the center of the 75-ohm antenna terminal and see how many stations you get), but time has for some reason not been kind to many of them. Press the AUTO/MANUAL button and the FM mute will go on and your seek function will come back. Stick a 75-ohm balun on a plain set of VHF rabbit ears and _then_ see how many stations you get.
   
  One of the reasons I like the R-851, aside from the sound and the versatile semiparametric EQ, is the lack of glass windows and protruding knobs. This makes it much easier to pack for shipping and increases the likelihood of its arriving without scathe. Not as sexy and inviting as a Pioneer SX-1250, I admit, but still modern-looking.


----------



## scottiebabie

Craps Frank thats one SX in pitiful condition. im glad u\re shipping it back immediately as its a clear case of misrepresentation atbest, at worst its fraud so its good u're giving him neg feedback  to warn others of his shenigans. unfortunetly buying 30+ yrs old vintage (or even just used) equipment can be a bit of a crapshoot & its best to eyeball it personally. even then there's no assurance it wont croak on u.
   
  for sure thats the major drawback to buying vintage but there's some gems & bargains to be had if one's careful. but ofcos, it would be even better if one is adept at EE & have the requisite diy skills. to that effect, i've bought myself a decent soldering station + tools with some cheap receivers/amps to practise on. dismantling, replacing parts & resembling isnt so much an issue as diagnosing - guess i can relate to what House does! LOL!
   
  too bad bout the SX as i think u'd be very impressed with the sonic qualities of the pioneer. again i caution against haste as u already have all the amps for your needs & it seems this acquistion spree is more a factor of curiosity than any real need. unless jersey's an island in the middle of the pacific, im sure there'll be good deals on the rite gear to be had if u can just wait til it come along. goodluck though.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





ford2 said:


> Well this just reached $800 so that takes me out of the bidding.
> 
> And still 5 days to go.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sansui-G-7000-Pure-Power-DC-Monster-Receiver-RARE-MINT-/180640573307?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item2a0f04677b


 

 Holy Fishcakes Batman, somethings a tad fishy down under! $800 & counting is just bit wack'd IMO. but then again we are talking 'bout an island in the middle of nowhere next to the antarctica! LOL!! jus kiddin but i do feel for u assies & im guessin europeans don have it much better too. but u guys do have nice white sandy beaches & warm temperatures while we canucks have loadsa not so sandy but very white..... snow. did i mention snow? yaaa we have snow & lots & lots & lots of the fluffy stuff. did i say lots? i mean we covered with 'em up to the eyeballs with snow. so whos got it good i wonder. hmmmmmm??!! heh

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unfortunately my work schedule the next few weeks will prevent any sort of formal review soon - but my experience with the 3 vintage receivers I have certainly says that if they are in good condition, and that if their size and weight is not an issue for you, and that if you can get one at a good price, that you get WAAAAAY more for your headphone listening dollar this way than by buying dedicated amps.  The Pioneer 1250 blows away any headphone amp I have ever heard for the $600 I paid for it.


 
  Quote:


skylab said:


> Here is how good I think the Pioneer SX1250 is as a headphone amp - I just ordered a second pair of LCD-2's so I can have a pair for the office connected to the Pioneer full-time


 
  im totally surprised not very many ppl pick'd up on these 2 statements by our resident amp maestro. knowing how politically polite skylab is, me thinks this is as close as we're gonna get from him admitting how awesome vintage gear can double as "dedicated" headamps before feathers starts ruffling.
   
  that said, let me caution that not all vintage gear sounds good which also means a great sounding amp will not neccessarily play nice with any & all headphones. if we take that in consideration plus the age & possible breakdown issues (it is vintage gear afterall), i do believe theres no better deal to be had. plus it does speakers, do radio, play nice with turntables & theres no arguing captain midnite can be mesmerizing. plus i do love the retro look & feel. O & i do use it occasionally to workout the bi tri pecs delts abs hams quads......heh


----------



## REB

Oh man, that just breaks my heart!


----------



## REB

A pair of fostex r20v2 just showed up at the office today , courtesy of leeperry from whom I bought these. Plugged them into the Kenwood and instant synergy happened. Fiddling with the tone controls is now even more important, but, boy, do these sound good! the kenwood has tons of power and you can hear that in the way the fostex reproduces the music (fed by a hifiman 602). Detail is even better than on the k500 (never thought I'd say that) and the bass is incredibly deep, detailed and textured. I was listening to Mozart's Requiem and the bass was literally awe-inspiring. Detail, depth and a soundstage that is both intimate and deeper than I expected. I do have to turn the volume knob up a fair bit more than with the k500.
   
  Am debating whether I should buy a sansui g6000 in excellent (revised) condition...


----------



## ejs811

Powering my vintage Audio Dynamics speakers.


----------



## REB

Nice! What are the specs?


----------



## Frank I

I went to look at a collection of pretty receiver today. I listened to a vintage sansui 5000X and Marantz 2270 and Luxman 1040 was acting up and the Pioneer SX980. I also seen two Kenwood 11G monster amps. you need a room by itself way too big for my rack. I ended up buying the SX980 80W receiver in very very nice condition I will post pictures and paid 180.00 for it a score. This is one very detailed piece and drives the hE6 out of the headphone jack very easily. I also noticed the Watt meter work and going up to about 8W at points most of the time at around 1W


----------



## Happy Camper

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I went to look at a collection of pretty receiver today. I listened to a vintage sansui 5000X and Marantz 2270 and Luxman 1040 was acting up and the Pioneer SX980. I also seen two Kenwood 11G monster amps. you need a room by itself way too big for my rack. I ended up buying the SX980 80W receiver in very very nice condition I will post pictures and paid 180.00 for it a score. This is one very detailed piece and drives the hE6 out of the headphone jack very easily. I also noticed the Watt meter work and going up to about 8W at points most of the time at around 1W


 


  Was there a grin on your way home?


----------



## Frank I

What do you you think? LOL
  
  Quote: 





happy camper said:


> Was there a grin on your way home?


----------



## Skylab

Very, very nice Frank!  Love the look of the SX-xx80 series.  Congrats!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very, very nice Frank!  Love the look of the SX-xx80 series.  Congrats!


 


  Thanks Rob so far so good. Very powerful more than i would ever need and very nice and musical receiver. Looks like it was well cared for.


----------



## Happy Camper

That is a heyday special.


----------



## Frank I

Spending a bunch of hours today with both the D7000 and the hE6 with the Pioneer SX980. All I can say these were the days were receivers were King and this Pioneer is simply amazing. For anyone wanting to get a headamp in the SS variety for the hE6 or anything else for that matter you will be shocked when you hear what these Pioneer sound and look like. Powerful and robust with great detail and musicality. I need no more power for sure and this is the best I have heard my D7000 on every amp I have owned. The HE6 does so well with the headphone jack but I also have the pigtail but have seen very ltitle reason to use it. This receiver has tight and controlled bass and is a marvel to both listen to and look at. Well worth the search for one of these in the Silver series when the receiver were overbuilt and sounded great. I am in agreement with Rob and his is bigger and more powerful and he was so right with this as was Scottie. I do not believe any headamp will compete with these IMO.


----------



## moodyrn

$$$$$$$. That's all I can say. This tread is make people selling vintaged gear very happy. I better go ahead and get one soon! But on a serious note, congrats Frank, it's good to see you've found happiness given what has happened to you lately.


----------



## grokit

Congrats Frank, nice score!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> $$$$$$$. That's all I can say. This tread is make people selling vintaged gear very happy. I better go ahead and get one soon! But on a serious note, congrats Frank, it's good to see you've found happiness given what has happened to you lately.


 


  Thanks. The ebay fiasco still not  over. The seller is total fraud had wrong address on the UPS label wont give the new one and ebay is handling it now For anyone interested I will be selling the restored 2220B Marantz and will list it soon if anybody interested send me a pM..


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Congrats Frank, nice score!


 


  Yes I still have my sales skills. This is the one he wouldnt sell yesterday but he has 15 and this was the only Pioneer. He had two Kenwood 11G one had an equalizer but those monsters were twice the size of this one. Thanks


----------



## Frank I

Funny how the D7000 on the Pioneer SX980 plays so well and the meter show burst hitting 1W and when I use the HE6 the meter will hit the 80W burst on certain passages. it is a real trip and it show that the planar can and will whatever you give it in terms of power. This receiver has been a blast and a real pleasure to listen too, If you own a HE6 I suggest you seek out the Pioneer receivers SX5or 8 series and this is perfect for my cans. I figure even if you need to rebuild these and its cost a few hundred you could never get anything near this quality again. This is the last amplifier I will need as it is that good and I sold the Marantz 2220B today locally it was listed a few hours and sold. Demand is great for these vintage receivers and glad I snagged this one.


----------



## burgunder

Is that reading of 80w while listening through the headphone output or the speaker terminals? If it's through the HP out there's reason to believe that there's actually only talk of 2w as it was common that those outputs had 330 ohms resitors at that time. I have BTW seen a threadf somewhere that talked about improved soundquality if the resistors were changed to 120 ohms, but that might make it difficult to listen to the D7000s.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





burgunder said:


> Is that reading of 80w while listening through the headphone output or the speaker terminals? If it's through the HP out there's reason to believe that there's actually only talk of 2w as it was common that those outputs had 330 ohms resitors at that time. I have BTW seen a threadf somewhere that talked about improved soundquality if the resistors were changed to 120 ohms, but that might make it difficult to listen to the D7000s.


 

 That is through the headphone jacks and I have also used it thru the speaker taps with same results but lower on the volume knob. i would assume your correct and I love the D7000 the way its sounding so I wont mod this. if it goes and need a rebuild I will try to get it in original state as it so good sounding now why mess with a good thing but that great info.


----------



## moodyrn

My experience is similar on my fisher. When I first got it I had he-5s at the time. It didn't have nearly enough juice to power them from the headphone out. After downloading a schematic I saw that it used 330ohm resistors at the headphone out. So I changed them out for 165ohm resistors essentially doubling the power. I had great results with them, after that. But on the flip side, I could get hum free performace before that switch with my iems. After the switch there was a little hum. It was only with iems though. Now after upgrading to the he-6, the headphone out with the 165ohm resistors powers them about the same the stock resistors did with the he-5s. But I'm leaving well enough alone because the headphone out is just right for my denons. No hum whatsoever. I get a little when I push the volume up past the point where it would damage both my hearing and the denons. But I can get to insanely loud levels hum free. As for the he-6, they sound outstanding powered from the speaker taps.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, I was browsing on craigslist a couple of days ago, and I came across a listing for a pioneer sx-1010 receiver. I really hadn't heard too much about this particular receiver and wondered would it be worth it to drive  an hour and 45 minutes to Huntsville to pick it up. I also wondered since it was a 1000 level sx receiver it it would be anywhere close to a sx1050 or 1080. To my surprise, there's quiet a bit of information about it on audiokarma. Not only is it up there with the 1050/1080, but it's actually a notch above those. The 1010 was acually the totl receiver in that particular year and was the receiver the 1250 replaced. So I spent half the night last night reading impressions and there were a ton of people who owns this and the 1250. At least half of them prefered it to the 1250 and all of them said it was a step up from the 1050. From my reading I also found that this receiver was the original "monster" receiver, and it was from this receiver that started it all when it came to 100+ wpc receivers. Also this receiver is even more rare than the rest of them. So I decided to see that the lady was asking since she was selling this as a bundle with other vintage gear for 850. She told me 200.00 and would accept 165.00. Wow!! I thought there must be something wrong with it. She later sent me a message telling me that it was in perfect working condition with only a couple of cosmetic blemishes, and untill very recently was kept in an entertainment cabinet for 20+ years. I really thought this was too good to be true, but it would be worth the trip to check it out. I took my he-6 with me to test it out to see if the headphone out was really as powerful as Skylab and Frank indicated. After plugging them in, my jaw  litterally hit the floor. If anyone read my impressions in the he-6 thread, they will see I was one of the first going on about these needing a dedicated speaker amp to power these cans. I didn't think there was a "dedicated" headphone amp inexistence that could drive these to their "full" potential. I have listened to these on several powerful dedicated headphone amps including a very nice beta 22. Some could get a nice volume out of them, but non powered them to their full potential. So that's why I was so amazed that the  headphone out could not only drive them to a decent volume, but drive them as well as a dedicated speaker amp. And I don't even have to go anywhere close to 12:00 on the knob either. The sound was amazingly clean, and this was using the lineout from my iphone4. There were a couple of minor things. The antenna holder was broke and there's a few small blemishes on the front left corner of the wood cabinet(and easy fix if I chose to). Other than that, it scratch free and looks very good. I haven't tried them with any speakers yet, but the headphone out alone is enough for me. I can't belive how good the headphone out is. It's by far the  best solid state amp I've listened to for headphones; and I mean by a large margin. Frank, you and I haven't agreed on everything, but you and Skylab were absolutely right about this. Even with the couple of small issues, I kind of feel guilty leaving that lady's house with this thing only giving her 165.00. What!! 165.00. I have struck gold quite a few time with some really great bargins, but this is an outright steel for 165.00, and is the bargin of the century. It's an even bigger bargin than the 250.00 I got my fisher for. I can't wait to try this thing out with my other headphones and speakers. This thing is a beast. I struggled to carry this to my car. Pics to follow later.


----------



## moodyrn

Please excuse all of my typos. I'm just too excited right now.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Please excuse all of my typos. I'm just too excited right now.


 


  it was Scottie who got Rob on the Pioneer kick and Rob and scottie got me interested and I smile all the time and glad you made a better score than I. But they are really special receivers and even if the kaput woth the bucks to rebuild. They are special for sure and glad you see it the same way and no need for pigtail with the puppies in the headphone jack. it is my best headphone amps for them for sure and man my D7000 thrives with it. Welcome to Team Pioneer.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I really need to thank Scottie for putting us on to the pioneer sx line.  So...thank you Scottie.


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## moodyrn

Pics really don't show how massively built this thing is. It has what appears to be an EI transformer(which is preferred by many). I say appears because I've never seen this type of transformer anywhere near this size. It's as big as a large toroid. Those two caps are almost the size of the car audio caps used to go between the battery and amp.


----------



## BmWr75

I picked up a 1010 a few years ago.  Had a tech check it out.  Its my garage system receiver now.  Guess I should try the HP out.


----------



## cifani090

Here is a thread i started, wouldent mind if people contributed; http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/546478/audio-hunting#post_7367122


----------



## Skylab

Moodyrn, that Pioneer looks AWESOME!  Congrats.  Still loving my big Pioneer.


----------



## Zida

Does anyone know of a site for learning about the lineup of amps and receivers of manufacturers as good as http://www.silverpioneer.netfirms.com/ is at telling you about Pioneer gear?
  It ain't that easy finding your way around a myriad of model numbers from thirty to forty years ago


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Moodyrn, that Pioneer looks AWESOME!  Congrats.  Still loving my big Pioneer.


 


  Thanks Skylab. Glad to be part of the club. I never knew this type of sound existed in these receivers.


----------



## Zida

Someone is selling a fully restored Pioneer SX-1010 in my area for $600. Sometimes I wish I was more reckless.


----------



## livewire

$600 is a rip-off, if it hasnt had a documented recent major overhaul.
  Value is in the eye of the beholder and what the market will bear.
  Due to the popularity of the older higher end Marantz and Sansui iron, prices on the other
  stuff such as Pioneers is following that trend.
   
  These Pioneers, specifically the SX-1010 have typically been selling for $100 to $150
  for the last two years. I follow the trends on ebay and the prices are heading up
  probably due to sites like HF with members discovering the virtues of these oldies.
  Added higher shipping costs have to be factored in due to their high weight.
  That being said, shipping them is not a good option unless they are packed correctly,
  They should be crated with edge foam or double boxed.
   
  BTW, I got my SX-1010 for free from the original owner who had it mothballed in his garage.
  It did need minor cleaning of the scratchy sounding controls. A spritz of Deoxit and all is like new.
  I posted pics of it in this thread about fifteen pages ago, but did not offer any listening impressions.
  I will say that it does sound awesome with my K702's.


----------



## scottiebabie

im sure glad u guys are finding so much goodness in the old stuff. they are were built in a different era & monsta receivers like these will never again be built nor duplicated. i have an ear to ear smile everytime i turn em on & now u guys have validated my hearing isnt exactly as wooden as i sometimes felt.
   
  @Moodryn your 1010 for $165 is a screaming score & a half - i woulda broken my arm in the haste pulling out the wallet upon such a discovery! LOL. not sure about it bettering the XX50s or XX80s but it is very nice & an awesome deal. good for u!
   
  @Zida if it were my money, $600 would be a very fair deal for a 1250/80 in minty condition. the 1010 is perhaps much underated but resale on it would not surpass the former duo IMO ofcos. if buying a collector isnt your thang, the lower x50/80 series wouldnt be far behind, if any, in sonic goodness. FWIWi have a hard time (& still do) distingiushing any differences btwn the baby SX450 & the more hardcore dedicated SA7500 amp so u mite wanna wait for a much more reasonably priced SX or SA.
   
  inspite of all the Pioneer love goin on here, let me say that there are other gems waiting for "discovery". i hear the higher end Kyocera's have a more refined (ie.audiophile) sound while the monsta Kennies arent exactly chop'd liver. to be fair, the big Yamis have their own juicy goodness & the twin power'd Harman Kardons 930 while sporting only 50w a side, are considered extremely musical.
   
  all these are viable alternatives esp as "headamps" as wattage no longer have any meaningful impact. much more important is their over engineered over built power supplies & the rest of the goodies these TOTL receivers sported as showcase products for their individual mfgrs. i sincerely hope this doesnt turn into just a Pioneer only Love thread as it would then be boring at the very least - not that theres anything rotten in the state of Pioneer as i own 2 & have no plans to sell them anytime soon.
   
  as william cowper once wrote..“Variety's the very spice of life, That gives it all its flavor”. hehe
   
  addon:FWIW while the 1010 mite not be worth the asking $600, a full documented shop refurb of any of these receivers can cost $200-400. a genuine rebuilt unit can provide another 30-40yrs of service so the aforemention 1010's asking price maynot be the "ripoff" as superficially thought.  while its true that many of these units sold for low prices, those deals may no longer be available. anyone following current pricing will find it very difficult to procure a...say 1250 for anything less then $500-600. im sure there are little old widowed ladies with these stored in their attics giving them away but i wouldnt hold my breath on scoring one either. for those that bought at current 'inflated" prices, its my humble opinion that there will be very little loss if any if one should decide to resell.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah it's not uncommon to see fully serviced SX1250's go for $1,000, based on what I have been seeing. And I've been looking for a Sansui G9000, but fat chance on that for a nice one in terms of a good price.


----------



## sling5s

Setton RS 220 Receiver  "Built in 1977 by Setton (a partner or subsidiary of Pioneer), this uncommon receiver is said to have been designed by Pierre Cardin, who has dabbled in things other than clothing."  I finally decided to put up my vintage Setton RS 220 Receiver.
  I used to have a 70 's vintage Marantz but sold it on ebay and later picked this up.  To my ears, it's smoother than the Marantz.


----------



## moodyrn

There's a couple of 1010s on eBay now. One is working for a buyitnow of 600(500 starting bid). The other one is non working for 300. I saw this before I decided to make the trip to get mine. Prices are going up, but it's not because of us. They have been trending that way for some time. There are several vintage sites that's been hyping these beauties up. Just visit audiokarma, they will tell you that you would have to spend thousands to duplicate the same sound. I don't know about that, but vintage gear has been getting hype for a while now. We are just late to the party.


----------



## Frank I

You can have any of the Pioneer overhauled from between 175-375 total and I ask myself even if I invested another 350.00 for a total of 530.00 I have truly a receiver of art that is better than any headphone SS amps I have heard or owned including my favorite the Concerto which was 710.00 this puppy as Scottie said rebuilt will outlive me and I will not ever get this quality again . Its perfect plus you also have a nice tuner to boot and can drive full range speakers if you choose to.


----------



## moodyrn

I agree Frank. One thing you have to look at, even if you spend upwards of 600.00 for a refurb, just ask yourself how much would I have to spend on an amp to get something that sounds this good? The answer would be....a lot more than 600.00. And the tuner is exceptional. Not only for sound, but I haven't hooked up an antenna yet, but I can still pull in just about every radio station in my area.


----------



## scottiebabie

Skylab u'll lov the big 'Sui G fo sho! If memory serves me, I thinks it's jus a tad cleaner than the more ol school 9090 much like I find the AU517/717 cleaner than the other 'Suis I've heard.

Since u now hav amps up the yinyang u can afford to wait it out til the perfect score blows in. Do keep a lookout for the big Kennies too as u mite be very pleasantly surprised. Goodluck


----------



## RexAeterna

yea. not just receivers and integrated amps but speakers as well. the vintage power amps tho don't get as much notice tho since they are just for driving speakers but are very powerful and meant for very very large rooms. having a vintage sansui power amp of 330wpc is total overkill if your not living in an insanely large area or using it for parties. you can drive headphones too if you do little soldering to be used in the speaker outputs but not many are willing to rip apart their expensive headphones.

 it's only the big sansuis,marantz and pioneer that been getting hyped a lot since they are the big heavy weights and sought after receivers. lot of big kenwoods as well get underlooked but lately been getting more popular. thing too bout i love about some of these well built units is they can drive 2ohm and 4ohm speakers no sweat and can drive electrostatic speakers as well with enough voltage swing. it's true they don't make them anymore like they use to. it was also much cheaper back then as well due to better economics. in order to get a nice stereo amp of same built structure  as late 60's to early 80's you need to spend easily over 1000 and even then it might not live up to your 50 dollar sansui you found at a thrift store or so forth due to different tapeogly curcuit design. most designers back then treated their design as artwork. thinking of a perfect curcuit is like michelangelo thinking of a painting. it was all about art. yea a perfect amp would basically would just be all wires and curcuits with no picticular sound to it of it's own but it doesn't hurt to have different taste of your art dose it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> There's a couple of 1010s on eBay now. One is working for a buyitnow of 600(500 starting bid). The other one is non working for 300. I saw this before I decided to make the trip to get mine. Prices are going up, but it's not because of us. They have been trending that way for some time. There are several vintage sites that's been hyping these beauties up. Just visit audiokarma, they will tell you that you would have to spend thousands to duplicate the same sound. I don't know about that, but vintage gear has been getting hype for a while now. We are just late to the party.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah it's not uncommon to see fully serviced SX1250's go for $1,000, based on what I have been seeing. And I've been looking for a Sansui G9000, but fat chance on that for a nice one in terms of a good price.


 

 Skylab,
   
  I have a lead on a Sansui 9090DB in the Chicago area for $300.  Supposed to be in decent cosmetic shape and good functional condition.  If the guy won't ship it, are you interested?  Let me know.
   
  BmWr75


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the offer, but I already have a 9090 in good condition. If I were to go for another Sansui it would need to be the G9000, and it would have to be in great shape.

Scottie I may look into one of the big Kenwwods too, like you said if I find one local and in great shape at a nice price! I'm definitely not in a hurry anymore, lots of these to play with, more interested in finding the exact right score, just as you said.


----------



## musicman59

Hi guys,
  I got a Luxman LV-105 Hybrid integrated amplifier in great cosmetic conditions and perfect operation. Unfortunately I need to sell it because I found a Threshold T50 that I want to buy for the HE-6.
  If somebody is interested you can see it here:
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110668072357&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_850wt_1141
  http://ads.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?intatran&1306624067


----------



## mythless

Kenwood's stuff have become quite strong in their following and certain models are highly sought after, I say maybe 35% are sought after and the rest are really undervalued like their receivers.  However, their supreme, or their older 3 digit amplifiers or their dual transformer gear as well tuners are highly sought after.


----------



## rgs9200m

I spent my formative audio years parked in front of an AR receiver I bought new long ago, driving Dynaco A25s with an AR turntable w/Shure V15. My 1st phones were Superex ProB-Vs (the green ones).
  Loved that system (at least my really young ears did).
  This led to my lifelong affair with with gear.


----------



## cifani090

Hey everyone, how is a G5000 for $90. Isnt that a steal?


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





rgs9200m said:


> I spent my formative audio years parked in front of an AR receiver I bought new long ago, driving Dynaco A25s with an AR turntable w/Shure V15. My 1st phones were Superex ProB-Vs (the green ones).
> Loved that system (at least my really young ears did).
> This led to my lifelong affair with with gear.


 

 dynaco a25s sure brings back the good times. dont do loud nor big bad bass but they were & still are a great set of bookshelfs. i just snagged abit of canadian west coast loudspeaker history with a set of pro linear stage 3s ($30!! hoooyaaaa
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) which reminds me alot of the dynacos. these pro linears sound esp good with vintage amps.
   
  what i really want is a mint pair of the bullnose original large advent loudspeakers. a buds dad had them & i remembered them sounding awesome with big bad bass - for a 10" woofer (though with a 12" basket) that is. atleast thats what i can recall from my young teen years. LOL the red "fried egg" tweeters was something else which was again, never to be duplicated. man would i love to score a minty pair of them. after 30 odd years, i'd still put them up against any bookshelfs of today!
   
   
  ps:not sure about a "steal" but a "Sui G5000 for $90 is a very decent deal. $50 would be a steal IMO but $90 woudnt be overpaying by any means. good for u! so buy it & let us know how u like it


----------



## eggontoast

What a great thread, nice to see a bit of interest in the vintage gear here on Head-Fi
   
  There is some really nice gear listed on the thread. Here is my vintage stack comprising of a Pioneer SA-7800, RG-2, SR-303 and a DT510. Please excuse the image quality it was taken on my iPhone.


----------



## rgs9200m

After the Dyancos,  I had the big Advents, then moved on to Infinity Q5s. Ah the good old days...


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





eggontoast said:


> Here is my vintage stack comprising of a Pioneer SA-7800, RG-2, SR-303 and a DT510.


 
  Ah, Fluroscans. Your 7800 is one of the socalled "non-switching" amps. This is the roughly the start of the Japanese mfrs. tackling the problem of "transistor sound". Thumbs up!


----------



## kstaken

I've been following this thread for a while and it finally got the best of me so I stopped in a local shop that sells a lot of vintage and took a listen to a few pieces.
   
  I tried a Pioneer SX 950, Kenwood KA-5700, Sansui Au-919 and Yamaha CR-2020 with both the LCD-2 and HE-5LE. These were VERY quick impressions but of these units the Yamaha, wasn't worth the time, muddy, diffuse and well ... just ugly sounding, everything I'd expected a piece from the 70s to sound like (If it wasn't for this thread anyway). The Kenwood was a bit on the bright side and was fatiguing in just a few minutes with the LCD-2s so I didn't listen very long. The Pioneer showed promise but I think the Sansui may have had the most promise based on these quick impressions. Unfortunately the Sansui was being auctioned on ebay so I ended up borrowing the Pioneer for some extended listening.
   
  I now have the Pioneer on loan for a few days. This unit has been fully restored and recapped. My question is for the people that are impressed with these, are you using the headphone jack or the speaker outs to drive the orthos?
   
  I ask this as I've found the headphone out to be OK but really pretty unrefined and it definitely runs out of steam with the HE-5LE, getting harsh and compressed at higher volumes. It's not terrible but definitely not what I was hoping for either. That said, the HE-5LE off the speaker jacks, completely different beast, best I've heard them sound. I have several more modern speaker amps and the Pioneer easily beats all of them. There's some hiss, but I find the sound much more dynamic, open and transparent with considerably more defined imaging and better texture overall. In general simply more engaging than any other amp I own. I don't have the ability to hook the LCD-2s to the speaker taps yet but I suspect the hiss will be too much for them. So is my experience here out of line? Is the SX 950 known for not having the best headphone output?
   
  BTW, the guys in the shop thought I was crazy for thinking these things might be good headphone amps even though they sell a lot of vintage.


----------



## eggontoast

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Ah, Fluoroscans. Your 7800 is one of the socalled "non-switching" amps. This is the roughly the start of the Japanese mfrs. tackling the problem of "transistor sound". Thumbs up!


 


  Cheers for the thumbs up.
   
  Love these first Fluoroscan amplifiers, it took me a while to find one as you don't get to many over here in the UK. When I found it it was covered in dust and grime but no damage, it was missing knobs but was fully working albeit a trifle crackly. Done an overhaul on it by thoroughly cleaning inside and out, cleaned pots and switches, replaced electrolytics with some nice nichicons, replaced the power indicator with an led, reseated the power devices and finally after much searching found some replacement knobs from somewhere in Chicago. The result is outstanding, these amplifiers sound excellent through speakers and headphones IMO.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





kstaken said:


> I've been following this thread for a while and it finally got the best of me so I stopped in a local shop that sells a lot of vintage and took a listen to a few pieces.
> 
> I tried a Pioneer SX 950, Kenwood KA-5700, Sansui Au-919 and Yamaha CR-2020 with both the LCD-2 and HE-5LE. These were VERY quick impressions but of these units the Yamaha, wasn't worth the time, muddy, diffuse and well ... just ugly sounding, everything I'd expected a piece from the 70s to sound like (If it wasn't for this thread anyway). The Kenwood was a bit on the bright side and was fatiguing in just a few minutes with the LCD-2s so I didn't listen very long. The Pioneer showed promise but I think the Sansui may have had the most promise based on these quick impressions. Unfortunately the Sansui was being auctioned on ebay so I ended up borrowing the Pioneer for some extended listening.
> 
> ...


 
  interesting impressions. i do agree with some of your observations but, albeit based on memory,  i heard an entirely different presentation of the yamaha & kenwood. that said, i absolutely respect your impressions & my interpretations does not in anyway invalidate what u heard.
   
  the yami CA610 that i heard was clean quick transparent with very good dynamics much similar to a technics receiver that i have. the  kennie KR9400 receiver i heard was fabulous to my ears & every bit the equal of any of its comtempories IMO. both so impressed me that i have plans to own a higher end unit of both makes. to be honest its the 1st i've heard of the highly respected hi-end yami CRs termed "muddy & diffuse" & its a total surprize that any vintage kennie is "bright & fatiguing". its not beyond the realm of possibility that the brightness, harshness, muddiness, etc..etc u heard are bad caps, bad connectors, bad resistors, bad diodes, bad solder joints etc..as these are 30-40yr old vintage amps afterall. or we just plain hear differently. whatever the reason  all i can say is one flower does not a whole garland make & its quite possible another similar unit mite sound different.
   
  OTOH i totally agree that pioneers are great amps both speaker & headouts. i bliv both Skylab & Frank run their orthos (LCD2 & HE6 respectively) off the headphone jack of their SXs. & with great success i hear. 
   
  & yes with the HE5-LE, i like my sansui AU517 better than both my pioneers although the pioneer does synergize more with the HD650. FWIW the HD650 sounded totally fab on the yami CA610 i heard - better than both sansui & pioneers i have.
   
  & yes speaker taps trumps headout in every respect on the HE5-LE atleast.
   
  ps:a big YES to ppl freakin when i tell them i use these mainly as "headamps". its quite funny to me too! hehe


----------



## REB

I decided to take a gamble on a brand that is only seen as a major brand in australia afaik: TEAC. I bought a TEAC bx500 for the measly sum of 25 euros. It's supposed to be in a good state (guy who sells it knows how to maintain audio gear) and a bit of a sleeper according to a number of euro websites and the folks over at audiokarma. Its soundsig is supposed to be less seventies than sansui or pioneer. Less warm and more transparent. It was solidly built and features a pretty large ring transformer. And it's got those nice, big vu meters! Can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## REB

I think I'll use it at the office, while my kenwood ka7002 gets revised.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





kstaken said:


> I've been following this thread for a while and it finally got the best of me so I stopped in a local shop that sells a lot of vintage and took a listen to a few pieces.
> 
> I tried a Pioneer SX 950, Kenwood KA-5700, Sansui Au-919 and Yamaha CR-2020 with both the LCD-2 and HE-5LE. These were VERY quick impressions but of these units the Yamaha, wasn't worth the time, muddy, diffuse and well ... just ugly sounding, everything I'd expected a piece from the 70s to sound like (If it wasn't for this thread anyway). The Kenwood was a bit on the bright side and was fatiguing in just a few minutes with the LCD-2s so I didn't listen very long. The Pioneer showed promise but I think the Sansui may have had the most promise based on these quick impressions. Unfortunately the Sansui was being auctioned on ebay so I ended up borrowing the Pioneer for some extended listening.
> 
> ...


 

 I cant speak \ for the SX950 as I have the SX980 and can say IMO this is better than any other SS headamp I have heard or owned. The HE6 out of the headphone jack is perfect. Very detailed receiver and perfect for both my D7000 and HE6. I have compared to the speaker taps also with the HE6 and listen through the headphone jack mostly. Not sure about the 950 but the 980 works super.


----------



## Skylab

I agree, Frank.  I have a bit of experience with stand alone headphone amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  And I can say with some certainty that for me anyway, the Pioneer SX-1250 drives the LCD-2 and HE-6 (and pretty much everything else) as well or better than any solid state dedicated headphone amps I have tried, and further is outstanding as a headphone amp in absolute terms.
   
  I am SURE people would look at you sideways if you suggested to use the 70 lb, enourmous receivers like these as headphone amps, but it isn't due to the performance, it's the silliness in general, for most folk, who think for headphones, an iPod is fine.  Even audio shop people are likely not to have heard of the HE-5 or 6 and don't know what it takes to drive them.
   
  Again, I still perefer my high end tube amps for headphones.  Not everyone will be into the performance these big vintage receivers have, and they absolutely all sound different!  The 1250 was the most neutral of all the ones I tried, while steering away from bright still.
   
  Anyway JMO, YMMV.


----------



## moodyrn

I also agree. I think there must be a bad resistor or something with your headphone out. I have the sx-1010, and compared the speaker outs and headphone outs using the he-6. For the first time I can hear hiss with the he-6 using speaker outs. It's not a lot but it's there. This is really astonishing because I have listened to a few amps that was more than 100wpc and didn't get any hiss. That's just another testiment of how powerful and under rated the power ratings are. The speaker outs is just over kill for these. But the -20db button fixes this, and the background with the -20db button is completely quiet and sounds lovely. So I agree with you there about the speaker outs. But when I plug them into the headphone out, the sound is the same. The headphone out sounds pretty much the same as using the speaker out with -20db button. I can't really hear a difference which is very, very impressive. So if you love the sound out of the speaker outs, you should also love the sound out of the headphone out unless there's a problem. I am using the sx-1010, but I can't seeinng them being that different. I still prefer the speaker out on my fisher with my he-6. But I do prefer the 1010 with my d7000. The synergy with those is just lovely.


----------



## Frank I

Rob those Kenwood 11G are twice in size and I had an opportunity but honestly the Pioneer SX 980 fits in the rack so its all I need. I did not listen to the Kenwood but it probably a good one but you need lots of room for that beast if you getting one.  I see this as my last SS amp for my headphones and I like having a tuner again. I  can imagine the how great the  1250/1280 sound great also. Now if I decided to run Maggies again thats what i would be looking for also.


----------



## moodyrn

I use a onkyo nr5008 receiver(their current top of the line). This receiver tested at outputting more than their rated(2 channels driven) 145@8ohms. I have owned a few flagship receivers in the past. And this is by far the best sounding home theater receiver I've listened to. I thought my psb T65 were great for home theater but only so so with music. After getting this receiver, I don't feel that way. Now I really enjoy these with music, and their two channel performance is very good. I said all of that to say this. The sx-1010 is rated at 110 watts@8ohms, and it's much more powerful than my onkyo. It also sounds better as well. But I use it upstairs in my office with my klipsch epic CF-2s(along with my fisher). I've also owned dedicated power amps, and from memory it outperforms those as well. I really don't see myself ever needing another solid state amp of any kind. Whether it's a speaker amp or headphone amp. It's that good as far as solid state amps are concerned.


----------



## kstaken

Yeah, it sounds like this SX 950 may have an issue with the headphone out then. It has supposedly been fully gone over, recapped and all that but there is also a lot of noise in the phono section and after it's been on for a few hours I've noticed noise overall so it's definitely not a perfect example. The size of this thing is an issue but maybe I'll keep an eye out for another unit as it does sound very good via the speaker outs. I also tried it with a pair of Maggie MMG speakers, very nice there as well so speaker outs are definitely good.


----------



## scottiebabie

i just noticed that u're from Phoenix & everyone knows that while Google is our friend, heat is the enemy. with the extreme desert heat its not entirely preposterous an assumption for caps & such to have an accelerated deterioration cycle. either that or theres a fishy whiff coming from the shop u visited.
   
  if it were me i'd try to have a bit more auditions of the home environment variety before drawing any conclusions
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  ps:FWIW i hear no hiss from any of my vintage gear on any of my headgear xceptin when vol's max'd - totally understandable when gain's >30+ on home amps.


----------



## kstaken

The shop is good, I know the guys well and have been going there for several years. My understanding is that the Pioneer had been there for a while and hadn't been powered on in several months. I gave it back to them today.
   
  When I was there the other day they also had a Kenwood KA-9100 that was in need of cleaning/service. When I went in today that was back and ready to be listened to, so I now have that one at home for a few days. The size of it is definitely more manageable. I'll post impressions after I've had a few hours with it.


----------



## rgs9200m

scottiebabie -- here are your Advents:
  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1306800207&/Advent-Large-Speakers


----------



## scottiebabie

buuuyaaaaa! them be the advents fo sho! looks very minty in the pics with bullnose cabinet n all - mikey likey
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. those are the "new" large advents which some say is even better than the originals. thxs bro
   
  $300 isnt cheap for them & i'd def need some quality facetime with them so buying online would be outta question for me. a quad pair isnt outta the question if i can find deal on them as i hear these thangs turn the neigborhood into a rock stadium venue when quad stacked! nice!!!
   
  back on topic here's some pics of my triple-deck "headamp" station for those that deem a single receiver too large. heh


for
   
  for the curious, the bright flashy looking contraption at the bottom is a car booster power pack i adapted to power my mod'd MF V-DAC instead of using the standard walwart. heh! 
   
  the top is a mid end technic receiver which i find perfect for the HD650. 2nd down is the pioneer integrated which i find sounds great with iems, pk1s & some other lesser cans. bottom is the 'Sui integrated that sounds best with the hifiman orthos.
   
  why get 1 when one can have 3! LOL


----------



## Skylab

Nice stack, there, Scottie! I love the stack look - very vintage in and of itself.


----------



## scottiebabie

thxs Rob - wish the wife shares your view!  everyone who sees it 1st time always does a double or perhaps a triple take for a few secs before the usual What is that!!?? LMAO!
   
  a small addon for those with HD650 & considers it dark warm slow veiled or whateva. get ya hands on a vintage technic receiver/integrated & hear it transform. if the hd650 can ever be considered quick(er) bright(er) & bass 'lite(r)', this combo is IT! not quite a Grado but more like a Ultrasone. to my ears atleast. plus the technics seems to bump the upper mids to make the senn sound more intimate. again while not quite onstage grado style, its a 2-3 row now instead of the 10+ row on stock senns. i cant wait til i diy a cryo copper cable for it! goodstuff indeed!
   
  btw the tripledeck station set me back a whole 125 smackeroos (not counting gas for pickup & the bucket of contact cleaner) for those that think its an 'expensive' habit. as stated before, im basically done on headamps & will only be scouting for stonkin deals on collectables. unless by a stroke of luck, i become financially independent like skylab! hehe


----------



## REB

Well, the teac bx500 arrived and except for a faint crackle in the volume pot which appears now and then it is in the condition the seller promised me it would be in. That is to say, very good, all the pot meter (alps) are fine, no channel imbalance, the vu meters work and so do the lights. With the muting (20dB) on, the vu meters move up and down quite nicely.
   
  This one is a surprise soundwise because it is significantly more transparent, spatious and open than my other vintage gear. If you fiddle a bit with the tone controls, you'll get that typical 70s sound out of it (warm, comforting, but detailed and powerful), but in 'neutral' it is not warm at all. I am getting used to it as we speak, but I have been pleasantly surprised, both by the quality and the signature of the sound. And being somewhat of a cheap skate, by its ridiculous price of 25 euros. It may be a bit too trebly for me in with all the controls on the zero, but that's easily remedied.  I'm inclined to think teac amps are a bit of a sleeper!
   
  I am listening through a k500 and a fostex 20rpv2 btw. It drives both of them effortlessly. It is only too trebly with the k500, I just found out. The fostex is much darker by nature.


----------



## REB

And it's got this cool reverse stereo switch (I guess for if you wire the speakers the wrong way?)
   
  Playing with it and listening to it, I don't think it's in the same class as the kenwood ka7002, but it's more involving in a way. Maybe because it's a bit 'lighter' than the kenwood. It is certainly less powerfull than the kenwood. Now listening to julie london, who sounds fabulous through the kenwood. The teac definitely has more synergy with the k500, while the kenwood does better with the fostex. Can't keep both amps at the office though...


----------



## moodyrn

It may not be the case with yours, but I thought it was odd when I saw one on my fisher. After trying the headphone out, I noticed the channesl were reversed. So after a investigation I learned the reverse switch was for the headphone out and it was wired reversely intentionally which makes no sense to me. Well, when I changed the resistors out, I corrected it myself and switched the channels on the headphone out. It would be annoying to have to flip a switch every time I plugged in headphones. So you might want to confirm this isn't the case with yours.


----------



## REB

Will do, but I haven't hooked up any speakers yet. And I don't think I'm going to fiddle with the insides... I don't trust myself with a soldering iron.
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> It may not be the case with yours, but I thought it was odd when I saw one on my fisher. After trying the headphone out, I noticed the channesl were reversed. So after a investigation I learned the reverse switch was for the headphone out and it was wired reversely intentionally which makes no sense to me. Well, when I changed the resistors out, I corrected it myself and switched the channels on the headphone out. It would be annoying to have to flip a switch every time I plugged in headphones. So you might want to confirm this isn't the case with yours.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





reb said:


> And it's got this cool reverse stereo switch (I guess for if you wire the speakers the wrong way?)


 
  Those switches were usually survivors from the birth of stereo twenty years earlier.  Some people had a big mono speaker - perhaps built into a corner - and would buy a second and often non-matching speaker (believe it or not) for the other channel.  The reverse switch allowed them to move basses and tympani from right to left into the bigger speaker for better bass response, if necessary.


----------



## REB

Aha, now that makes sense.
  
  Quote: 





innerspace said:


> Those switches were usually survivors from the birth of stereo twenty years earlier.  Some people had a big mono speaker - perhaps built into a corner - and would buy a second and often non-matching speaker (believe it or not) for the other channel.  The reverse switch allowed them to move basses and tympani from right to left into the bigger speaker for better bass response, if necessary.


----------



## Kees

Quote: 





reb said:


> I decided to take a gamble on a brand that is only seen as a major brand in australia afaik: TEAC.


 

 TEAC used to be a very big name in Europe, especially for tape decks. Later on they made a very good CD player too, the VRDS 10. Their top products now sell under the name Esoteric.


----------



## REB

I know about their tape decks (the vintage knob has a nice on-line collection), but in terms of amplifiers and other separates they never did as well (saleswise) as the really big names in Europe, did they? Or perhaps I just never paid much attention to the brand. Esoteric seems to be pretty esoteric, btw, if you'll forgive me the pun. It seems to be hard to find.
  
  Quote: 





kees said:


> TEAC used to be a very big name in Europe, especially for tape decks. Later on they made a very good CD player too, the VRDS 10. Their top products now sell under the name Esoteric.


----------



## rgs9200m

Awesome nice pile Scottiebabie! Good luck !!


----------



## Skylab

I'm finding that the +2.5 dB 50 Hz bump that the SX-1250 has is just wonderful for the HE-6.  I definitely prefer listening to them this way over flat.  50Hz is low enough there is zero impact on the mids from this very subtle bass bump.


----------



## scottiebabie

LololoL!!! Skylab tats EXACTLY what I use for the HE5-LE. Just gives it that xtra rumble kick tats makes everything more enjoyable. The HE5LE handles it so well that it feels perfectly natural.

Tone controls on these things are just wonderful. I even flip on the "loudness" for the custom livewires iem which together with the -20db mute makes them just about perfect  

ps: @rgs9200m thxs bro, glad u like all 100+ lbs of the tri-deck 'headamp' stations. still looks ridiculous to me but i lub it!


----------



## Skylab

LOL indeed!  But not surprising, Scottie.  The Hifiman can easily handle the extra bass, as you said, and the Pioneer tone controls are so well thought out and implemented.  I can detect no sonic penalty in using them.
   
  I'm here to tell you, the SX-1250 driving the HE-6 with +2.5 dB at 50Hz is absolutely THRILLING.  I can't get enough.  A lot of other amps around here are feeling pretty lonely, and of course quite a few others were sent packing


----------



## scottiebabie

wooooah! am i detecting downsizing plans for our resident amp maestro??? ahahaha! at this rate, u'll be selling out the "headamps" portion of your rig/s maybe 'ceptin the exotica tubies. i wonder though how vintage or near vintage reg home tube amps would sound in headamp mode??
   
  like say a classic vintage ARC integrated or perhaps a pre/amp combo like an SP3/D51 duo? perhaps something like that mite give an even bigger hi-end tube "thrills" both for speakers & headphones. something to ponder on for sure. perhaps someone here whos tried it with headphones mite care to chime in.
   
  hey Rob how u heard your HE6 via the 1250 playing Jennifer Warnes (The Hunter) Way Down Low? absolutely mindboggling bass kick - the cans actually rumbles & shakes that it tickles! niceeeee
   
  O before i forget, REB'man thats one sweet lookin Teac. lov the VU meters if nothing else but for 25euros, its a screamer of a deal! congrats!!
   
  edited:btw Rob i think u using the 1250 exclusively as a headamp sounds & looks as ridiculous & wack'd too im sure as me using 3 of these beast similarly. better not tell too many ppl else they mite call the dudes with the straitjackets for pickup! heh


----------



## Skylab

Well, given the physical size of my trio of vintage receivers, "downsizing" might be the wrong word 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I did get rid of all my other headphone amps except the high end tube amps and the portables, though.  No need for the low-end tube ones, or any other solid state.  My listening will be either to my tube amps (Leben, Woo, Trafomatic, or Decware) or to the SX-1250, Marantz 2275, or Sansui 9090.  And even at that, that's a lot of sharing of the head time.
   
  And yeah, using this monstrous beast as just a headphone amp is pretty silly...but it sure is good!  I'm going to hook it up to my baby Nautiluses soon though (B&W N805).  As good as the Pioneer is, not sure it will drive the BIG Nautiluses the way the 650 wpc Sunfire does.  But the baby B&W should be KILLER....


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





kees said:


> TEAC used to be a very big name in Europe, especially for tape decks. Later on they made a very good CD player too, the VRDS 10. Their top products now sell under the name Esoteric.


 

 You are right Kees. Teac tape decks were very good and at par with Nakamichi. The CD players were awesome. Wadia used to use (or still use) their VRDS transport mechanism. I still own a VRDS 10 modified by Steve Huntley from the Great Northern Sound (former Wadia engineer) as my transport in one of my sets. It has the same mechanism of the Wadia 20 and the 560/561.


----------



## moodyrn

I thought I might have been the only one using that 2.5db bump with the he-6. It does give that extra punch they've been missing, and yes it doesn't mess with anything else. This amp and my fisher is putting up a serious fight as to which one going to be the primary amp with my he-6. The pioneer has already won that fight with my d7000. But what the fisher does for the mids is addictive. It's too much lushness for the already lush d7000, but just right for the he-6. But the slam I now get with the pioneer is also addictive. Well I guess may the best amp win.
   
   
   
  I still can't believe how good this beast sounds; both speaker out and headphone out.


----------



## Skylab

I hooked up the turntable finally to the SX-1250.  Phono stage is terrific.  Very low noise, very clean, very transparent.  Here is one way in which the Pioneer absolutely slays the Fisher KX-100.  The KX-100's phono stage is VERY tubey ans syrupy.  Too much of a good thing.  Right now I have the Pioneer's tape out connected to the Fisher, which I had done so I could play the Pioneer's FM via the Fisher, which is currently driving the B&W N805.  Now I can also play the Phono that way, and it's better sounding that way.
   
  I'm keeping the Fisher no matter what, as I LOVE its sound.  But I sense a fight between it and the SX-1250 over which gets to power the baby beemers soon.
   
  I'm like a giddy little kid with this thing.  It sounds so good with the Denon DP-59L TT it's hard to believe.  Modern era cartridge, of course, and modern era headphones, but vintage turntable and receiver are sounding mighty good!!!!


----------



## moodyrn

The pioneer has made selling the fisher cross my mind, but that's all. The fisher does sound too good to part with. It's one of the better sounding tube amps I've had in many ways. It just doesn't mate well with all headphones. But with others, it sound absolutely gorgeous. I still prefer it with my klipsch epics, but they are klipsch and can sound bright. The fisher really balanced them out, and just throws images all over the room. This reason alone is enough not to ever sell it. But the pioneer is really putting up a heck of a fight as to which one going to be the primary amp for the he-6 though. They both sounds amazing with them with each having their own strength.


----------



## Skylab

So I went ahead and connected the N805s to the SX1250. WOW. That's all I can say. They are going to STAY connected to the big Pioneer. They love it, and It loves them. OMG.


----------



## scottiebabie

ROTFL!! in that case skylab, mite i interest u in the ultimate uber Pioneer Receiver -The SX1980- me thinks this one will drive your big nautilus ya.

   
  270w a side of pure unadulterated pioneer power never made again & prolly never will. only the technics SA1000, the marantz 2600 & the even crazier sansui G33000 can apply for this exclusive club! i can hear it calling u - wouldnt be surprised if u wake up in a cold sweat dreaming of all 78lbs of the 1980 ontop of ya!!! ahahahaha
   
  incase u really are nuts & ready for the off reservation excursion, theres one selling in ontaria canada for $1800. i think u mite be able to sweettalk him into doing it shipping included! ehehehe


----------



## moodyrn

I pretty much expected that. My sx-1010 is probably has one of the best solid state amps I've listened to. I can use the -20db button on my klipsch, and still drive them to ear bleeding levels. Well, they are around 96db efficiency which is another reason the fisher gels so well with them. But I can also get my psb's pretty loud with the -20db button press. That's great Skylab. I'm glad you are finding so many uses for it. It really is one impressive tool kit; an excellent tuner, speaker amp, headphone amp, and phono all rolled up in one. IMO you bought bought all these components separate with the same level of quality, there's no doubt in my mind you would be out of multiple thousands. I'm now a fanboy of the sx line. I have a feeling I still might become fans of other vintage gear that I may eventually get my hands on. I had scored a good deal on a marantz 2252 for 125.00, and had planned on getting it the day after I bought the 1010. But right now, I simply have no desire for anything else.
   
   
  PS. Don't worry old fisher, I'm still a fan of you too.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> ROTFL!! in that case skylab, mite i interest u in the ultimate uber Pioneer Receiver -The SX1980- me thinks this one will drive your big nautilus ya.
> 
> 
> 270w a side of pure unadulterated pioneer power never made again & prolly never will. only the technics SA1000, the marantz 2600 & the even crazier sansui G33000 can apply for this exclusive club! i can hear it calling u - wouldnt be surprised if u wake up in a cold sweat dreaming of all 78lbs of the 1980 ontop of ya!!! ahahahaha
> ...


 


  All I can say is wow!!! This thing should be on The History Channel's monster quest.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL indeed!  But not surprising, Scottie.  The Hifiman can easily handle the extra bass, as you said, and the Pioneer tone controls are so well thought out and implemented.  I can detect no sonic penalty in using them.
> 
> I'm here to tell you, the SX-1250 driving the HE-6 with +2.5 dB at 50Hz is absolutely THRILLING.  I can't get enough.  A lot of other amps around here are feeling pretty lonely, and of course quite a few others were sent packing


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So I went ahead and connected the N805s to the SX1250. WOW. That's all I can say. They are going to STAY connected to the big Pioneer. They love it, and It loves them. OMG.


 

 I'm pretty sure you don't need that 2275 anymore, hint hint.


----------



## Skylab

Ha ha, Larry, nice try 

And Moodyrn, I still love the Fisher too. Different sound, but wonderful in it's own way. I always knew asking it to drive the B&Ws was pushing it. That's not really the kind of speaker for it. I need to get some Klipsch or other high-eff speakers to use with the Fisher. But it has that very magical vintage tube sound, very different from modern tube amps, and I wouldn't want to be without it.

The SX1250, though, is very impressive in its doing so many things well. Great tuner. Very good phono stage. Outstanding with what in the B&W N805's are some pretty decent but not easy to drive speakers. And will drive any headphone on earth. That's a lot of audio lovin' for the $600 I paid.

Scottie, don't think I haven't eyed that SX-1980...Daddy WANT. But no way I will get one of those shipped to me. Now, if one comes around locally...well...


----------



## Zida

So I've been waiting on picking up this one gents Pioneer SA-8500 for a while now, but just today I saw a Pioneer A-77x get posted FS in, apparently, pretty much perfect condition for $300. Unless any of you have any experience to point me otherwise I intend to buy that guy up ASAP.


----------



## scottiebabie

havnt heard the A-77X or A-88X for that matter but its not quite the vintage (its made in later 80s i think) so beloved by the crew in this thread. however the specs seem mind blowing sporting 3 trafos (1@L/R/pre) & 7 (yaaa count em again!) psu. specs also read its the 1st of the elite line so me thinks u got nothing much to lose bud.
   
  only fly in the ointment besides ensuring premium working condition is the price seems atad high but WTH - so what if u need to blow it out & lose $100 or so. i doubt it but who knows. however me thinks its gonna be a keeper & make Zida a very happy camper. get it & get back on how it performs with the HE6.
   
  im betting its gonna be batting close to 1000. be as Nike & Just Do IT! heh!


----------



## Zida

I just hope it's built to sound great and not just read off as an impressive spec list. Another concern might be that by the time this amp rolled around headphones were more efficient and it might have more resistance on the headphone out. I guess I have to just try it and see.

 It's more than I wanted to spend but how can you say no to an amp like _that_.


----------



## mythless

lol Skylab has gotten the vintage bug badly.  Picked up my first Marantz, 2230B, sounds pretty good, a bit more intimate than some of my other amplifiers (Rotel, Sansui, Hitachi, Pioneer, Technics) but, I may prefer my HK and Luxman over it.  And, it's by far the most expensive low wattage receiver I ever bought, looks pretty cool though.  Cost me more than my newly acquired Pioneer SA-9100!  But, I do admit after getting a set of Yamaha HP-2, those old amps/receivers do a lot better job in driving certain headphones than regular headphone amps.


----------



## scottiebabie

@Zida i PM'd u on a link for a local SA7500/TU500 combo that u can audition & make an offer it strikes your fancy. i have the same amp & think its one sweet potato. def will drive your HE6 with aplomb but like all things, whether it will float your boat is another issue. regardless its time to get your feet wet & go for it. any opinions garnered here are just that - opinions. the only opinion that counts is yours & yours alone. goodluck & give us the lowdown on what u thunk.
   
  Skylabs downward (or isit upwards??) spiral into vintage lunacy is something else indeed! sorry Rob but its almost comical when i think how fast u went from zero to hero in the span of a month! ROTFL!!! mite well be a record 1st for anyone using or even contemplating a pioneer MONSTA SX1980 for headphones! my hero indeed!


----------



## ardgedee

Hmm...
   
  Say I had to choose between a Scott 222C and a Fisher X-202-B. Both are integrated amps from 1961, heavy on the tubes. The Scott is around 20 wpc / 8 ohm, the Fisher around 30 wpc / 8 ohm. Both are stock, working order, clean, rust-free and cosmetically intact (all the original knobs are present, all the screened-on labels are readable, etc.), both bearing equal amounts of age and wear. But I have to choose without listening to either first. Disregard cost as a factor for the time being.
   
  I'd be using one to drive a desktop stereo -- mostly headphones, including a pair of HE-6 -- and sometimes a pair of bookshelf speakers standing on the desk -- so power quantity is nice but far from necessary. Source will be nearly exclusively digital audio, and sometimes an FM tuner.
   
  Which should I go with?
   
  This is a mostly but not entirely hypothetical question at the moment.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> Skylabs downward (or isit upwards??) spiral into vintage lunacy is something else indeed! sorry Rob but its almost comical when i think how fast u went from zero to hero in the span of a month! ROTFL!!! mite well be a record 1st for anyone using or even contemplating a pioneer MONSTA SX1980 for headphones! my hero indeed!




Yeah, I can get like that sometimes. When I get into something, I get INTO it. The funny thing is I rarely get out of it  I'm still big into vinyl, and tubes, and headphones, and...well every audio obsession I've every had 

Today was an almost entirely headphone free day though. Was spinning records on the Denon and blasting the N805's with the SX1250. And it was a GREAT day. Spinning Steely Dan's Aja as I type this. Very, very nice. The Pioneer's phono stage lacks the transparency of my Eddie Current tubed one, but heck, that was $1,200 just for the phono stage! The Pioneer is very enjoyable with vinyl to be sure. And man it has CONTROL of the baby Beemers.


----------



## scottiebabie

i bet the 1250 sounds sweet on the baby B&Ws. have u tried it on the big nautilus yet? wouldnt surprize me if it drives it just as well too. puts a smile on my face seeing how u like spinning vinyl so much that i wish i can get into it as prices on vintage TT are soooo cheap! heck even decent micro seiki TTs arent too unreasonable either but i just cant do it. the hassle of cleaning, de-static'in, spinning, flipping & storages just too darn painful! LOL
   
  btw Rob hope u arent gettin me wrong as im not teasing u or god forbid, riding u bout this vintage trip. dang if anything, im kinda amped as in a weird way, i feel like im trippin with u. its just that when i think about it, its pretty darn hilarous. its like u flip a switch & bada bing bada boom ya IN LIKE FLINT! & not just in but way off the deep end! it took me a year & tons of auditions & playin round to get to this stage but u took all that & compressed it into <1mth!! i just have a ear2ear grin everytime i think bout it!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i bet the 1250 sounds sweet on the baby B&Ws. have u tried it on the big nautilus yet? wouldnt surprize me if it drives it just as well too. puts a smile on my face seeing how u like spinning vinyl so much that i wish i can get into it as prices on vintage TT are soooo cheap! heck even decent micro seiki TTs arent too unreasonable either but i just cant do it. the hassle of cleaning, de-static'in, spinning, flipping & storages just too darn painful! LOL
> 
> btw Rob hope u arent gettin me wrong as im not teasing u or god forbid, riding u bout this vintage trip. dang if anything, im kinda amped as in a weird way, i feel like im trippin with u. its just that when i think about it, its pretty darn hilarous. its like u flip a switch & bada bing bada boom ya IN LIKE FLINT! & not just in but way off the deep end! it took me a year & tons of auditions & playin round to get to this stage but u took all that & compressed it into <1mth!! i just have a ear2ear grin everytime i think bout it!


 

 No way man, love your comments, keep 'em coming!  All good. 
   
  When I get into something, I tend to buy a bunch of stuff, listen to it all, and then sort it out later and sell what I don't like or want to keep.  I'm going to sell that vintage Sony I bought when I get around to it, for example.  Not that it isn't good, but I prefer the other 3 I got.
   
  But you should take the plunge on a vintage TT!  A Micro Seiki would be a good choice.  I had one for a while, nice deck.  Ended up donating it to my kids' school so the music teacher could play records.  Scottie with your amps, the phono stages you have are just begging to be used!!!
   
  I won't be trying the Pioneer with the N800's though - just not practical - would require WAAAAAAY too much rewiring.  And as good as the Pioneer is, I booted a pair of 200W monoblock Audio Research amps from driving the N800 for too little power!  It's 300 wpc absolute bare minimum for the N800.  The Sunfire at 650 wpc is just about right


----------



## wualta

Scottiebabie, I'm shocked-- if you don't have a 'table, a *TT*, you're _really_ missin' out. Skylab's right. You know in your heart of hearts that he is. He got the Pioneer, so you know what you gotta do!


----------



## scottiebabie

yaaa i've given TTs massive thought esp when i spot a nice TT on the local CL. then i wake up from the daydream & remember the hassles of it all & who can forget the accompanyin snap crackle & pop. i just cant pull the trigger as im so used to my computer cum music station & gotton so lazy that moving my ass to grab a brewski from the fridge in the kitchen is too much work! - which reminds me...i need a bar fridge next to the music station
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  dont think i can ever see myself going back to the vinyl spinning days though it is better. despite reading bout how much more superior redbook playback (never mind SACD & higher), plain old vinyl sounds better. despite the nasty SNR, musics justs sounds better - organic, smooth natural with a "bloom" that i cant hear in any digi rig i've heard. 
   
  but (aint buts a bitch?) i just cant get into the "old days" of all that work just to listen to 1 track on an album. no matter how mikey likes it. it'll just end up being a white elephant - talking of which, theres this Sansui AU-9900 i've eyeing for the longest......MIKEY WANTS!!! heh


----------



## wualta

I know your conscience will get the better of you someday. After all, aside from buying a signal generator, what easier way is there to test headphones using a step input than a good old scratchy LP?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Well, I failed to snag the refurbished Marantz 2275 that I originally wanted, but I have a stock 2240 on the way instead, for about 1/4 the cost.  Looking forward to trying it out soon!  I've been told that this particular unit sounds better than the Meier Concerto, by a reputable head-fi member...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Well, I failed to snag the refurbished Marantz 2275 that I originally wanted, but I have a stock 2240 on the way instead, for about 1/4 the cost.  Looking forward to trying it out soon!  I've been told that this particular unit sounds better than the Meier Concerto, by a reputable head-fi member...


 

 NOOOOOO say it aint so! a cheap crappy 35yr old receiver sounding better than an expensive dedicated headamp??? whats the world coming to??!!! LMAO!!!
   
  all kidding aside, welcome to the club Larry. looking forward to your gushing impressions of the marantz. who knows, pretty soon u'll be diving headlong into this lunacy we call vintage gear!
   
  ps:FYI the race is on for the (most likely im sure) record setting bid for owning & using a 300w a side MONSTA receiver as a dedicated headamp - 1st time in the world (that i've heard of). so far me thinks Skylab has the lead with his 160watter SX1250 but u aint gonna let a measly little thing like that stop ya are u?? pssssssst marantz has a model 2600 300w@8ohms rms receiver so u can one up Robs SX1250 - go go team marantz! LOLOL!!!


----------



## REB

Thanks, scottie, it's performing very well. Powerful, transparent and spacious, so I'm liking it a lot. The tone controls seem to have been implemented well, so even the loudness makes sense in some recordings! Love those VU-meters going back and fro while I'm working... Bass is very good. I never thought I'd say this, but it's on a par with the bass from my graham slee solo (i particularly like the solo's bass). It's all there, but not overpowering, sublimely textured and you can actually hear the strings being pulled through all the 'noise.' I'm a happy camper at the moment.
  
  Quote: 





> O before i forget, REB'man thats one sweet lookin Teac. lov the VU meters if nothing else but for 25euros, its a screamer of a deal! congrats!!


----------



## Happy Camper

Quote: 





reb said:


> .....It's all there, but not overpowering, sublimely textured and you can actually hear the strings being pulled through all the 'noise.' I'm a happy camper at the moment.


----------



## REB

LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





happy camper said:


>


----------



## BmWr75

Her's some pics of the Akai M-8 tube monoblock amps I recently refurbished.  Have them interconnected and am using the HP out jack.  They sound amazing with AKG K702s.
   
  Before:

   
  After:


----------



## rprokop63

Very nice!



bmwr75 said:


> Her's some pics of the Akai M-8 tube monoblock amps I recently refurbished.  Have them interconnected and am using the HP out jack.  They sound amazing with AKG K702s.
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...


----------



## rgs9200m

Those are probably what HE6s need...


----------



## REB

Gorgeous! What's the sound sig like?
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Her's some pics of the Akai M-8 tube monoblock amps I recently refurbished.  Have them interconnected and am using the HP out jack.  They sound amazing with AKG K702s.
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Those look VERY cool, BmWr75!  Nice.  Are you going to use the r-2-r?  Curious as to how you think it sounds.  Been contemplating picking up a reel deck to futz with, there are lots around locally...


----------



## darkswordsman17

I'm still kicking myself for not buying the Marantz I was eyeing a couple of years back. Can't remember the specific model, but I believe it was rated 20WPC, and it had wood finish (but not a wood enclosure like is often the case, I don't know if it was real wood or not) that looked like it would be a decent match for the W5000's cups (I had W5000 at the time, and so was doubly tempted, and I have a feeling one of these warm vintage amps would be a good fit, and the tone controls could help boost the bass a bit). I think it was only like $50 too and was in excellent condition.
   
  If you guys happen to come across something like that, let me know I'd be very interested as it'd be a good fit for my needs now (needing something for computer setup, simple Polk bookshelf, and headphone amp, so don't need some of the behemoths I've seen posted here). I've been considering just getting one of the Dayton T-amps, but I'm not hopeful that it'll be good for headphones.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





darkswordsman17 said:


> If you guys happen to come across something like that, let me know I'd be very interested as it'd be a good fit for my needs now (needing something for computer setup, simple Polk bookshelf, and headphone amp, so don't need some of the behemoths I've seen posted here). I've been considering just getting one of the Dayton T-amps, but I'm not hopeful that it'll be good for headphones.


 

 I've had reasonable success powering the HE-6 through the speaker taps on a Cityspot T-amp. If you try this your headphone will have to have totally separate + and - lines for each channel, and you can't run the speaker outputs through a conventional headphone plug adaptor.
   
  Some of the Dayton T-amps have headphone jacks, but unless Parts Express states otherwise the headphone jack will have its own low-grade amplification circuit separate from the Tripath amp that powers the speakers. As such, the sound from the headphone jacks is probably not an improvement over whatever you've got now. Save your money and track down a nice old home stereo receiver.


----------



## Skylab

The Musical Paradise t-amp does NOT have a separate path for the headphone amp, it uses the main amp.
   
  Still, it sounds nowhere near as good (nor has even lose to as much power) as one of these vintage receivers/integrateds - if you can score locally and not have to pay for shipping, you can get a nice receiver/integrated for about the same price as one of these t-amps that will sound much better.  If you don't have space I could understand that.  But consider that I got a 70 wpc Optonica integrated with a MASSIVE torroidal transformer and all discrete output devices that sounds better than some $500-1000 SS headphone amps I have heard...for $100!  The high-powered T-amps are more than that...


----------



## elrod-tom

Nice...I have an X-202B that looks a lot like this one.  I've not yet sprung for a wood case for mine...it's a nice look.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> This thread needs MORE PICS.  I absolutely love the look of vintage audio gear.  So I will repost one of my faves - this is my Fisher KX100.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> Nice...I have an X-202B that looks a lot like this one.  I've not yet sprung for a wood case for mine...it's a nice look.


 
   
  Thanks man!  Nice to "see" you 'round these parts.   The X-202-B is very nice! 
   
  I got my case separately.  If did not come with the amp.  Ordered it from http://mcintoshcabinets.com/  The guy takes a while but the final product is very nice, IMO.


----------



## Adda

I have been reading though this thread for a while, my first sound system was built around a vintage Sanyo stereo rack and my speakers where built back in 1975 by my dad, they are older then I am.
  So I have use vintage gear as long as I have had a stereo, I still use my ancient speakers and an ancient Nikko Alpha III power amp.
  My first headphone amp was a H/K PM665, plenty of power, but grainy with poor bass extension.
  The problem with vintage integrads is that they are so complicated that you HAVE to know how to maintain them to get the most of them.
  Due to their complexity, many things can fail, plenty of dials and switches, and a relatively complicated circuitry and lets not for get the high power draw.
  If you want to get around some of these problems you could try looking at some vintage preamps, I have found my Aragon 18k to be absolutely amazing, simple, easy to maintain, and insanely powerful.
  It is direct coupled, pure class A, uses mosfets, only has a single switch in the entire signal path and has an output impedance of just 10 ohms.
  So if you like vintage gear, don't limit your self to integrated amps, there are some sweet preamps to be found out there as well.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those look VERY cool, BmWr75!  Nice.  Are you going to use the r-2-r?  Curious as to how you think it sounds.  Been contemplating picking up a reel deck to futz with, there are lots around locally...


 


  Thanks Rob.  I am thinking about parting out the RtR.  It is very noisy.  I tried it for recording while it was still unmolested.  It recorded fine.....but was no where near what I'd call Hi-Fi quality.  There are lots of better 70s vintage RtRs out there by Teac, Otari, Tascam, Akai, etc.


----------



## elrod-tom

Yeah, that's the place that was recommended to me by NOS Valves.  I've actually got two of them, the X-202-B and a 500C that was a gift from my father in law.  It was the first thing that he bought after he finished his PhD at Berkeley in the 60's...back then it cost about $300.  It's in beautiful shape, and obviously has great sentimental value too...I'd really like to get cases for both, but for sure for the 500C.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks man!  Nice to "see" you 'round these parts.   The X-202-B is very nice!
> 
> I got my case separately.  If did not come with the amp.  Ordered it from http://mcintoshcabinets.com/  The guy takes a while but the final product is very nice, IMO.


----------



## BmWr75

REB,
   
  I typed a lengthy reply to your question about the Akai amps sound signature, then it was lost when I hit submit.
   
  In brief, these amps make AKG K702s sound very engaging, as they do Koss HV-1s and Grado SR-60s.
   
  I could listein to the Akai amp and K702s for hours.
   
  The Akais don't sound as good with my LCD-2s.  The LCD-2s sound better with my vintage Sansui 7000 receiver.  No hum or anything, just not as good as the solid state receiver.
   
  Regards,
  Scott


----------



## darkswordsman17

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I've had reasonable success powering the HE-6 through the speaker taps on a Cityspot T-amp. If you try this your headphone will have to have totally separate + and - lines for each channel, and you can't run the speaker outputs through a conventional headphone plug adaptor.
> 
> Some of the Dayton T-amps have headphone jacks, but unless Parts Express states otherwise the headphone jack will have its own low-grade amplification circuit separate from the Tripath amp that powers the speakers. As such, the sound from the headphone jacks is probably not an improvement over whatever you've got now. Save your money and track down a nice old home stereo receiver.


 


  Yeah, I'd basically be just going with it just for speakers. I figure put that $100 towards a vintage receiver that will be a bit better for my needs anyway.


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Musical Paradise t-amp does NOT have a separate path for the headphone amp, it uses the main amp.
> 
> Still, it sounds nowhere near as good (nor has even lose to as much power) as one of these vintage receivers/integrateds - if you can score locally and not have to pay for shipping, you can get a nice receiver/integrated for about the same price as one of these t-amps that will sound much better.  If you don't have space I could understand that.  But consider that I got a 70 wpc Optonica integrated with a MASSIVE torroidal transformer and all discrete output devices that sounds better than some $500-1000 SS headphone amps I have heard...for $100!  The high-powered T-amps are more than that...


 

 Haha, yeah, I saw that earlier, that thing is just awesomely absurd.
   
  I check Craigslist and keep an eye out, but there's slim pickings around here, and the few that I've come across the people basically won't even check to see if they work and they look like they just dug them out of the trash or something so I pretty much pass.
   
  Audiogon seems to be about the best bet for me.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, living in a big city has some advantages.  Check out Craigslist Chicago.  All sorts of stuff on any given day.  Some if junk, for sure, but some is not.
   
  Of course in my case, that may not be a good thing


----------



## scottiebabie

youre absolutely correct & yes i've given & have been giving vintage preamps some heavy thought to using one as a "dedicated" headamp. i cant disagree that using full blown amps as headamps is not only overkill but less than enviromental & energy friendly. only problem is the headspinning amount of choices with an equally headcracking lack of info & knowledge on which particular make & model uses what circuitry & most importantly, which sounds good. i shudder to think i'd have to go thru a dozen preamps or so to find that out. plus it would seem that preamps are even less wallet friendly than amps!
   
  no doubt its a very interesting & valid point. shucks i mite even get a tubed preamp if opportunity presents itself. btw  the aragon 18k is very nice although not cheap by any means - least not in my neigborhood.
   
  ps:BMW75r love how u recased the dual mono akais. i almost picked up an akai AA-8500 receiver last month which has the funkiest looking tuner display i've seen. no idea bout sound though.
  
  Quote: 





adda said:


> If you want to get around some of these problems you could try looking at some vintage preamps, I have found my Aragon 18k to be absolutely amazing, simple, easy to maintain, and insanely powerful.
> It is direct coupled, pure class A, uses mosfets, only has a single switch in the entire signal path and has an output impedance of just 10 ohms.
> So if you like vintage gear, don't limit your self to integrated amps, there are some sweet preamps to be found out there as well.


----------



## Skylab

A lot of preamps don't have the muscle for many of today's better headphones.


----------



## scottiebabie

yaaa Skylabs rite on the power issue although most modern low Z to an hd800 wouldnt be much of an problem. the orthos def need a real amp.


----------



## Adda

Yes the Aragon 18k is on the expensive side, it looks like they normally go for around 400$, that was what I payed for mine, for what you get, that is dirt cheap.
  The Aragon 28k and Aurum should be good as well, the 28k has an internal power supply and a remote control, the Aurum uses a quad mono design with balanced outputs and an upgraded power supply, it's output impedance is 20 ohms.
  All of these use the same mono blocks so should sound pretty much the same, the 18k seems to be way cheaper then the others though.
  The 18k is a perfect mach with K240DF's, it drives the them with ease and total authority, it even gives the DF's bass below 40Hz so they almost sound bassy, quite amazing.
  I wonder what would happen if it was paired with Sextetts or 600 Ohm DT880's or even a K340.
  It probably wouldn't be the best choice with orthos no, I suspect that it will deliver several watts in to the 50 Ohm range though.


----------



## milosz

Sugden A25
   
  This is a pretty nice Sugden amp from the 1980's (?) I got it off eBay for $125 in 2007. I've modified it by putting the line stage opamps on sockets.  Right now I have OPA627ab's in there. I'd like to try some Audio-Gd discrete OPA's in there some day.
   
  The headphone jack is OK, but I have some fun with this amp when I connect my Audeze LCD-2's or HiFiMan HE-6's to the speaker outputs.  Sounds pretty good.  Not my favorite amp, though.  
   
  I actually like using this amp to drive speakers.  Sounds a bit tube like in the mids and treble.  Has a phono preamp, but I haven't tried it yet.
   
  I've come across info stating this amp is class A (it gets REAL HOT!  I put a little 12 VAC transformer / diodes / caps in it to run two 1.5 inch fans which get turned on by a 150 degree F thermal switch I bolted to the heatsink, which is inside the amp.)  However I suspect it is NOT class A but a rather high-bias class AB.
   
  Sugden sent me a schematic for the amp, if you need it HERE it is.  It's not an easy schematic to find.


----------



## cifani090

I'll be buying a Pioneer SX-636 today for $40. He said that the case is in perfect shape and that we ran some  cheap bookshelf speakers out of it. What do you guys think? Ill be running if thru my B&W Dm610i's.


----------



## mythless

Good price for a SX-636, 25 wpc is enough.


----------



## scottiebabie

i remember a friend having a sugden integrated & thinking at that time that its minimalist design very similar to a cambridge audio i had. sounds decent enuff at this place but i never thought to investigate its headamp capabilities although the cambridge amp did sound more than decent (coudnt tell much difference it & a PPAv2) thru a HD600. however both werent vintages by any means.
   
  if im not incorrect, dont all AB amps runs class A upto 2x bias current? im sure one can tweak it up higher but it'll still be in the mw range & shouldnt affect heat output much. atleast not to the effect of needing cooling fans. but waddaikno. its interesting though. i do know however that there are some models of AB amps that are factory designed to run class A upto a higher specific class A wattage before switching to AB. some, like the higher yami CAxxxx vintages, even have an internal switch to allow for pure class A although at a much lower rated output.


----------



## cifani090

Need some help decidinglol; http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548407/kenwood-9gx-or-marantz-2265b#post_7392111


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Need some help decidinglol; http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548407/kenwood-9gx-or-marantz-2265b#post_7392111


 


  Depends on the price.  I sold my Marantz 2230B since it didn't sound as good as my Pioneer or HK receivers, and all three are equally cool looking with their lights, fluoroscan on the pioneer and HK430.  Like Luxman stuff Marantz has a very mellow, soft and smooth sound, not was clean cut or transparent as Pioneer or HK,  I would think the Kenwood might have similar sound signature to the pioneers of that time too.  Again, it all depends on price and how much you want to pay and how badly you want it.  If you are all for the Marantz go for it, you may enjoy it and besides you can probably sell it for the same price you bought it for.


----------



## scompton

Just scored a Marantz 2230 at Goodwill for $40.  It's beat up, no power button, the volume and balance shafts are bent, no light in the tuner.  It sounds great though.


----------



## Skylab

Man, I went to Goodwill on Sunday, and they never have JACK.  That is an unbelievable score.  Congrats!


----------



## scompton

The no power button makes it pretty unusable since I have to unplug it to turn it off.  Fortunately when the power button broke off, it broke with the power on.


----------



## Skylab

I'm sure you know this, but you can get all those parts very easily on eBay, if you are so inclined.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks man!  Nice to "see" you 'round these parts.   The X-202-B is very nice!
> 
> I got my case separately.  If did not come with the amp.  Ordered it from http://mcintoshcabinets.com/  The guy takes a while but the final product is very nice, IMO.


 


   


  Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> Nice...I have an X-202B that looks a lot like this one.  I've not yet sprung for a wood case for mine...it's a nice look.


 


  Its really too bad that the prices of Fisher's have to go up. Ive been looking for one of these, but everyone is catching on to the vintage trend


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scompton said:


> The no power button makes it pretty unusable since I have to unplug it to turn it off.  Fortunately when the power button broke off, it broke with the power on.


 


  Just your luck
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Still a great score, and i bet it sound great!


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm sure you know this, but you can get all those parts very easily on eBay, if you are so inclined.


 

 Those parts are pretty easy to replace too.  I've already ordered a service manual and I'm watching a couple of balance pots.  There's no power switch right now, but I've saved the search.  It's sitting on top of a Kenwood KA-7100 on my work bench.  The Kenwood needs a transistor replaced.  It's a 50 cent part at Radio Shack but I haven't had time to do the work.


----------



## wualta

Scompton, couldn't you just use a good-quality power strip on the Marantz?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Sorry that I've been too sick, and busy with the kids, to unbox my Marantz 2240 and try it yet - it arrived last Thursday. :mad:


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Scompton, couldn't you just use a good-quality power strip on the Marantz?


 
   
  
  I thought of that, but the way I have things set up now, I don't have room for one that would be accessible.  I need to rearrange things so I can set it up.  I really didn't need another receiver, but it was too good of a deal to pass up.


----------



## Frank I

Well the SX650 ended up back at my house because the seller gave wrong address and do not seem to want it back. Ebay refunded me so all I am out 35.00 for shipping both ways. I cleaned it up and need to repair the side wood splits but I must say this 35W amp is better than the marantz 2220B I sold and is driving the HE6 out of the headphone jack and sounds great. It does not sound as good as my SX980 and is much less powerful but it does so well with headphines and if you looking for a least expensive option this SX650 will not disappoint.  I can say if you find one on the cheap you will be satisfied as it still better than the 4 solid state headamps  I owned and the only one that can drive the HE6 and do it well.


----------



## moodyrn

I saw a x550 in the thrift store last week. It worked, the front face was in good shape, but most of the vinyl had pealed off the side wood panels. I came so close to getting it. It was only 35.00, but I just don't have any use for another piece of vintage gear. So over the past few days I agonized over it and convinced myself that maybe it was too good a deal to pass up. Made another trip to the thrift store and of course it's gone.


----------



## Skylab

I hear ya about not really needing the extra gear, for sure, but that's a nice price!

I'm sitting here tight now just in awe of how good the SX-1250 sounds. Been spending quite a bit of time listening to it driving the B&W N805's lately. It really does a great job with them. It's hard to believe how good the sound is from this rig. Grooving to Pink Floyd's The Division Bell right now, and I'm in a trance.


----------



## moodyrn

Does it give any of your tube amps "a run for their money"?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Does it give any of your tube amps "a run for their money"?


 

 Good question.  I assume you meant with headphones.  With speakers, the SX-1250 has so much power that it does a better job with my N805's than the Fisher KX-100 did, ALTHOUGH I do prefer the KX-100's midrange presentation, even with the N805.  I did not become a tube junkie without reason. I love tube midrange, and I have never heard ANY SS based design that has it.  The SX-1250 is no exception.  The thing of it is, with headphones, which are relatively easy to drive versus speakers, it's easier to get around some of the limitations of tube designs in terms of total power output.  The KX-100 is a push-pull pentode design with a slew of tubes and still manages just 35 WPC.  The SX-1250 is pumping out 160 clean watts per channel, and the B&W's like this.
   
  In my main rig, everything is tube, even the DAC, except my power amp.  My big B&W's need a LOT of power, and only SS will work for them, within reason.
   
  With headphones, though, it's different.  Until the HE-6, even 1-2 watts was way more than enough.  So with the LCD-2, T1, HD-800, R10, etc., I prefer one or another  of my high-end tube amps over the SX-1250.  With the HE-6, it's a tougher call, because they too love power.  The sound with the HE-6 and the 1250 is so very good it's hard for me to say I have heard anything that is really BETTER.
   
  But again, let's look at what I PAID.  Leben CS-300XS: $2,400, used.  Decware Mini-Torii: $1,495, new.  Trafomatic Head One: $900, used.  Woo Audio WA2: $800, used.  SX-1250: $550, used.  and the SX-1250 comes with an outstanding FM tuner and an excellent phono stage!  Not to mention driving 90%+ of the world's loudspeakers very well...
   
  Anyway, you know the drill.  Just my random thoughts.


----------



## Frank I

I agree with Rob when you look at the prices you can get good vintage receivers for yi makes more sense to save bucks big time. I have about 2400 invested in my Decware amps with the tubes in there now and the 980SX cost me 180.00 and this SX650 is 39.00 because I had issues with the seller. But to be honest this SX650 is driving the HE6 and doing it off the headphone jack so well. To me it would make more sense to spend this much less and go with a great vintage receivers. I am partial to the Pioneer Silver face receivers. my Tube amps are driving my speakers and its nice to switch off but if my dollars were really limited one of the Pioneer would serve me well.


----------



## moodyrn

Well Skylab, the he-6 is the trump card for me as well, when it comes down between the fisher and my pioneer. With the speaker out on the fisher, power isn't a concern. But with the pioneer having so much more power, the bass is extremely tight and extends deeper(especially with the 2.5db bump). The sound stage is a little wider and it's extremely clear and transparent. I would say maybe neutrality at it's best without being cold sounding. But on the other hand, the fisher does something with the mids that the pioneer just can't match. And with the uncolored sound the he-6 already have, they actually benefit from the lush romantic sound of the fisher. So it's really hard picking a true winner.  As far as speakers go, I prefer the fisher with my klipsch epics and the pioneer with my psbs. The kipsch's does have a sensitivity of 98db, and this is a perfect match for the fisher. The sound is big, full bodied, and very musical. The pioneer sounds good with them to, but the fisher just takes them to another level. If you ever come across some vintaged klipsch's I would suggest you give them a try with the fisher you have. I think you will be impressed with what it could do with some highly sensitive speakers.


----------



## Skylab

Moodyrn that all makes 100% perfect sense to me.  I kinda do want a pair of Klipsch's.  Was thinking maybe Heresy III's...


----------



## moodyrn

Those would be very nice. I haven't listened to them , but in the klipcsh forum they are compared to and preferred by some over the b&w 800 series. That's a very bold statement, but it is the "klipcsh" forum though. I will say this, I prefer my epics over any klipcsh I've listened to produced over the last ten years. The heresy would be even better than those.


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





skylab said:


> ...  I kinda do want a pair of Klipsch's.  Was thinking maybe Heresy III's...


 

 Nah, go all the way to La Scalas.  I have had a pair for 15 years, and they're amazing.  They do every individual hi-fi thing "wrong", but the overall result is so "right" in a musical sense you don't notice.  Perfect for old receivers and tubes.  The only negative is their washing-machine size.  If you don't have room, the Heresy is kinda two-thirds the deal ... but you'll get hooked and upgrade within weeks, I promise.


----------



## Skylab

No chance, man - due to the space.  The nice thing about the Heresies is they are not too big...


----------



## musicman59

I was a Klipsch fan from the early 80s to mid 90s. I have extensively listen to the Heresy, Belle and Horn. I used to own the Forte and then the Cornwall. IMO out of the full Heritage line the Cornwall is the most balanced sound of all. When I was replacing my Forte I had the chance to buy any of the bigger ones all the way to the Horn. I had the oportunity to listen to all of them in an A/B comparison at my dealer. I loved the looks of the Belle and Horn but the best balanced sound to my ears of all was the one from the Cornwall. If you have the space for them that's the one I would recommend.
   
  Take it from a fellow B&W lover.


----------



## CrazyRay

I love my Forte II's


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I was a Klipsch fan from the early 80s to mid 90s. I have extensively listen to the Heresy, Belle and Horn. I used to own the Forte and then the Cornwall. IMO out of the full Heritage line the Cornwall is the most balanced sound of all. When I was replacing my Forte I had the chance to buy any of the bigger ones all the way to the Horn. I had the oportunity to listen to all of them in an A/B comparison at my dealer. I loved the looks of the Belle and Horn but the best balanced sound to my ears of all was the one from the Cornwall. If you have the space for them that's the one I would recommend.
> 
> Take it from a fellow B&W lover.


 


  Thanks Jose...but I have almost NO space where I have my vintage rig.  That's why I am using the B&W N805's there.  In my big rig, where I have the N800's, I could have anything (the N800's weigh 375 lbs each!).  But I have NO interest in replacing the N800.  I wouldn't mind something else for the N805 in the vintage rig, but it cannot be big.
   
  What do you think if the Heresy?


----------



## Canuck57

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I was a Klipsch fan from the early 80s to mid 90s. I have extensively listen to the Heresy, Belle and Horn. I used to own the Forte and then the Cornwall. IMO out of the full Heritage line the Cornwall is the most balanced sound of all. When I was replacing my Forte I had the chance to buy any of the bigger ones all the way to the Horn. I had the oportunity to listen to all of them in an A/B comparison at my dealer. I loved the looks of the Belle and Horn but the best balanced sound to my ears of all was the one from the Cornwall. If you have the space for them that's the one I would recommend.
> 
> Take it from a fellow B&W lover.


 

 I'm a big Klipsch fan too! I've owned the Forte, La Scala (should have never sold them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and I currently have 1977 Cornwalls (walnut veneer cabinets) and Heresy II (walnut veneer pristine condition). I agree that the Cornwall have the most balanced sound, they sound effortless. I just picked up a Sansui G-7000 Receiver that I had a technician refurbish and it sounds great with the Cornwalls.
   
  I love the Heresey speakers too, their rated frequency response is 65-20,000 so they should sound bass shy, however I find them great without a sub. I'm using a Jolida tube hybrid & Jolida tube CD player with them.
   
  I should take pics of my vintage amps/receivers, I have a Marantz 2245, 2235b, 2226b (all with wood cases), Sansui AU-7900 Integrated, Sansui 7070, and a few others...I guess I'm a bit obsessed!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





canuck57 said:


> I should take pics of my vintage amps/receivers, I have a Marantz 2245, 2235b, 2226b (all with wood cases), Sansui AU-7900 Integrated, Sansui 7070, and a few others...I guess I'm a bit obsessed!


 

  
  Ill be taking pictures of my Kenwood 9000GX when i get home and you guys can see all of the beautiful meters, etc


----------



## scottiebabie

heard some klipsch Heresy & Belle -said to be a "beautified" version of heresy's & boy are they puuuuurty!- & they are big speakers both in size & need for breathing space. i heard them off a SS (forgot which) amp & found them a tad 'lively' up top. i think a pairs of klipschs will sound fab off your Leben or Decware more than even a vintage SS as juice isnt what they need IMO ofcos.
   
  on the other hand, theres a pair of vintage wharfedale Rosedales -fried egg tweeters, 15" woofer & all for only $159!!!- on the local CL that i soooooo wanna own but alas, i just dont have the room for these to sing. bet they'll sound mitey sweet with a good vintage SS amp! sigh.............................


----------



## Skylab

Right - the Heresies would be for the Fisher, not the Pioneer. The Pioneer LOVES the B&W N805. But the Fisher couldn't really handle them. The Fisher needs something with higher sensitivity - and yes, they could for sure also be used wi the Leben and the Decware Mini-Torii, which is another reason I'm considering them.

But I'm in no rush. I did just decide to pick up another item for my vintage rig...but you will all have to wait until Sunday or Monday for the Big Reveal


----------



## scottiebabie

oyaaa forgot bout them purty Fisher X100 tubies u have. boy are these 2 a match made in heaven!
   
  cant wait for yo big surprise unveil. hoope  its a whooper!!!


----------



## Skylab

Well, in the meantime, I have swapped out the Sansui 9090, which I think needs recapping, with fully restored and recapped 9090DB. Sounds MUCH better. I'm listening to it right now with the Sony R10...and it sounds KILLER.


----------



## scottiebabie

a recap cum service mite very well be what the doc orders for a 'sick' 9090 as the 8080 i heard is in no way inferior to the marantz. while not exactly the same, they both share more similarities of the old school vintage 'phat' siggy than not. i found the 2040 i used to own more of a lateral difference than a superior to the 8080.
   
  another issue mite be a waylaid bias & a readjustment mite make a world of diff. an unusually hot running amp is a good indication that it needs the bias adjusted so get yaself a service manual to play with.


----------



## Skylab

I took the 9090 to Deltronics. We'll see what they have to say about it. When it gets all spruced up, I will company it to the 9090DB, and then the loser will be sold. But you're right, the recapped 9090DB is every bit as good as the Marantz 2275. I may even like the 9090DB better. Hard to say. But in any case I feel like I've got my own version of the Big Three now 

What I am picking up Sunday is NOT a receiver.


----------



## Frank I

I am picking up a sansui G4500 40W receiver Sunday for 45.00 from a guy who is a collector and has has 5 pairs of vintage speakers plus more receivers. I cant drag home the KLH he wants to sell fully restored. I did not ask the price.  Need to check Craig List daily for deals. My SX980 is still at the shop being serviced hope thats back next week.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I took the 9090 to Deltronics. We'll see what they have to say about it. When it gets all spruced up, I will company it to the 9090DB, and then the loser will be sold. But you're right, the recapped 9090DB is every bit as good as the Marantz 2275. I may even like the 9090DB better. Hard to say. But in any case I feel like I've got my own version of the Big Three now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Some of that music on reel to reel gonna cost you over 125.00 tape, You need to up your sales goals buddy can go broke pretty quick. LMAO


----------



## scottiebabie

personally i would keep the vanilla 9090 over the 9090DB, all things being equal. IIRC the DB forces the signal to run thru the dolby circuitry which degrades the sound somewhat plus i hear the dolby boards tends to have issues. i think u must have one of Sansui's big G series to complete your collection. i also think the big G has more similarities with your 1250 being more neutral but yet with an authoritive bottom. try it out if u can.
   
  Frank, i think u'll love the G4700. its the best ss receiver series the Sansui made IMO. let us know what u think & how it compares with the silver pioneers.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> personally i would keep the vanilla 9090 over the 9090DB, all things being equal. IIRC the DB forces the signal to run thru the dolby circuitry which degrades the sound somewhat plus i hear the dolby boards tends to have issues. i think u must have one of Sansui's big G series to complete your collection. i also think the big G has more similarities with your 1250 being more neutral but yet with an authoritive bottom. try it out if u can.
> 
> Frank, i think u'll love the G4700. its the best ss receiver series the Sansui made IMO. let us know what u think & how it compares with the silver pioneers.


 


  I will do that. The Sansui according to the guy is excellent and has zero issues.  I do love the Silver Pioneer. I also gonna check out his speaker collection while I am there.  I can use the (*)Sx for floorstanders but the old lady wonty here it at least today I will nag and nag


----------



## Skylab

I'm watching for a G8000 or G9000. I'm also watching for a Marantz 2500 or 2600, and a Pioneer SX1980. Oh and a Kenwood 9600 with wood cabinet. 

I am HOPELESS, LOL.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm watching for a G8000 or G9000. I'm also watching for a Marantz 2500 or 2600, and a Pioneer SX1980. Oh and a Kenwood 9600 with wood cabinet.
> 
> I am HOPELESS, LOL.


 

 There is a G9000 in Philly he is asking 700.00 for it. I dont need the power nor do I want to spend that kind of dough. Rob you need the G33000


----------



## scottiebabie

Rob alls i gatta says is U DA MAN! owning any of them as a dedicated headamp certainly qualifies u as hopeless..... & INSANE! LOL.
   
  again, i could be wrong but any of em as headamp only will certainly be in the guinness book of records -if theres such a category! LMAO
   
  ps:yaaaaa i do bliv Franks rite. U NEED DA G33000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Rob alls i gatta says is U DA MAN! owning any of them as a dedicated headamp certainly qualifies u as hopeless..... & INSANE! LOL.
> 
> again, i could be wrong but any of em as headamp only will certainly be in the guinness book of records -if theres such a category! LMAO
> 
> ps:yaaaaa i do bliv Franks rite. U NEED DA G33000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 


  LMAO then maybe Rob you can be done that is a beast and probably the end all  for receivers.


----------



## Skylab

I've seen pics of the G33000, that thing is absurdly large. It's a two-piece! Calling it a receiver is really a misnomer, it's a preamp-tuner plus power amp.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've seen pics of the G33000, that thing is absurdly large. It's a two-piece! Calling it a receiver is really a misnomer, it's a preamp-tuner plus power amp.


 


  The list on that in the 70.s was 1900.00 in topdays dollars would be 5300.00


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm watching for a G8000 or G9000. I'm also watching for a Marantz 2500 or 2600, and a Pioneer SX1980. Oh and a Kenwood 9600 with wood cabinet.
> 
> I am HOPELESS, LOL.


 


   
  Watching
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Is there one for sale? Share the link


----------



## Skylab

Nah, I am just generically watching, mostly in hopes to score one locally.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nah, I am just generically watching, mostly in hopes to score one locally.


 

 Quote:
  


frank i said:


> The list on that in the 70.s was 1900.00 in topdays dollars would be 5300.00


 
  Skylab, what do you think you would want to pay for one? I just bought a rare European Kenwood from a local seller and he has a bunch of stuff. I can alert him and my picker if they come across one.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





frank i said:


> The list on that in the 70.s was 1900.00 in topdays dollars would be 5300.00


 

 even in the uber rarified world of rare vintage amps, G33000s are rare! last one i 'heard' about sold for the $10k figure & thats if one does come up forsale! otherwise goodluck finding one never mind price!
   
  if its rare in north america, me thinks there isnt gonna be one in EU. if anything, perhaps Asia mite have some.
   
  & Robs totally understating the size. its stupidly huge & weighs close to 120lbs. 
   
  psssssst Rob, up my way theres a 1980 forsale for $1800. i think $1500 would be a fine score considering some sold on upay for $3k!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks Jose...but I have almost NO space where I have my vintage rig.  That's why I am using the B&W N805's there.  In my big rig, where I have the N800's, I could have anything (the N800's weigh 375 lbs each!).  But I have NO interest in replacing the N800.  I wouldn't mind something else for the N805 in the vintage rig, but it cannot be big.
> 
> What do you think if the Heresy?


 

 Rob,
  The footprint of the Heresy is very close if not the same as the Forte. In my opinion I would buy the Forte. 
  When I was going to buy my first pair of Klipsch back in the mid 80s they were just offering the Heresy and then jump all the way to the Cornwall. At that moment I was not able to afford the Cornwall and even that the Heresy sounded very good they were bass shy to my taste and never bought 100% into them. I always thought if they just make another one with the same drivers but a bigger box to increase bass would be perfect. About 6 months later they announced the Forte and I bought the first pair that arrived at my dealer.
   
  Here are the specs of the Forte:
   
[size=1.6em] Specifications[/size] 

 [tr] [td]FREQUENCY RESPONSE​[/td] [td] 32Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]POWER HANDLING​[/td] [td] 100 watts maximum continuous (500 watts peak)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SENSITIVITY​[/td] [td] 98dB @ 1watt/1meter[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]NOMINAL IMPEDANCE​[/td] [td] 8 ohms[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]CROSSOVER FREQUENCY​[/td] [td] HF 6,000 Hz
 LF 700 Hz[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]TWEETER​[/td] [td] K-75-K 1" (2.54cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]HIGH FREQUENCY HORN​[/td] [td] 90(o)x40(o) Exponential Horn[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]MIDRANGE​[/td] [td] K-53-K 1.5" (3.81cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]MID FREQUENCY HORN​[/td] [td] 90(o)x40(o) Exponential Horn[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]WOOFER​[/td] [td] K-23 12" (30.48cm) Fiber-composite cone active / KD-13 12" (30.48cm) Fiber-composite cone passive[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]ENCLOSURE MATERIAL​[/td] [td] Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]ENCLOSURE TYPE​[/td] [td] Bass reflex via passive radiator[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]DIMENSIONS​[/td] [td] 35.4" (89.92cm) x 16.5" (41.91cm) x 12" (30.48cm)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]WEIGHT​[/td] [td] 56 lbs. (25.4kg)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]FINISHES​[/td] [td] Walnut Oil, Walnut Lacquer, Oak Oil, Oak Lacquer, Finished Black[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]BUILT FROM​[/td] [td] 1985[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]BUILT UNTIL​[/td] [td] 1989[/td] [/tr]    
   Here are the specs of the Heresy:
   
[size=1.6em] Specifications[/size] 

 [tr] [td]FREQUENCY RESPONSE​[/td] [td] 50Hz-17kHz(+-)5dB[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]POWER HANDLING​[/td] [td] 105 watts maximum continuous (500 watts peak)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]SENSITIVITY​[/td] [td] 96dB @ 1watt/1meter[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]NOMINAL IMPEDANCE​[/td] [td] 8 ohms[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]TWEETER​[/td] [td] K-77-M 1" (2.54cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]HIGH FREQUENCY HORN​[/td] [td] 90(o)x40(o) Exponential Horn[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]MIDRANGE​[/td] [td] K-55-V 2" (5.08cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]MID FREQUENCY HORN​[/td] [td] 80(o)x30(o) Exponential Horn[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]WOOFER​[/td] [td] K-22 12" (30.48cm) Fiber-composite cone[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]ENCLOSURE MATERIAL​[/td] [td] Birch Plywood or Veneered Lumbercore[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]ENCLOSURE TYPE​[/td] [td] Sealed[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]DIMENSIONS​[/td] [td] 21.4" (54.36cm) x 15.5" (39.37cm) x 13.2" (33.53cm)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]WEIGHT​[/td] [td] 55 lbs. (24.97kg)[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]FINISHES​[/td] [td] Walnut, Rosewood, Teak Oil, Walnut, Oak, Cherry Lacquer, Raw, Black Birch[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]BUILT FROM​[/td] [td] 1957[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]BUILT UNTIL​[/td] [td] 1985[/td] [/tr]    
  As you can see the foot print is basically the same but look at the frequency response and gain of 2db in sensitivity.
   
  By the way, I envy you with your N800. I have always been wanting a pair of either N800D or N801D. I have one of the last pairs of 801 Matrix S3 produced before changing to the Nautilus series in my living room system and a pair of N803 with a REL sub in my bedroom system.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> I took the 9090 to Deltronics. We'll see what they have to say about it. When it gets all spruced up, I will company it to the 9090DB, and then the loser will be sold. But you're right, the recapped 9090DB is every bit as good as the Marantz 2275. I may even like the 9090DB better. Hard to say. But in any case I feel like I've got my own version of the Big Three now
> 
> What I am picking up Sunday is NOT a receiver.




the DB boards if have any issues will be such a pain in the ass to repair and get working correctly if something happens. i'm wondering are you just buying up all these receivers for headphone use? no speakers? lot of these vintage receivers are capable of driving heavy loads no problem when it comes to speakers and honestly nothing plays more true to the source through good speakers like a good vintage receiver or integrated amp.


unless your a collector i find it very odd for someone to dish 100's or even 1000's of dollars just for headphone use on these monsterous and wonderful receivers. it's your money tho so i have no say in what you do and respect your decisions.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

So I compared my stock Marantz 2240 briefly to a stock Nuforce HDP that I keep in the basement rig, for when I don't have time to warm up the ZDT tube amp.  I had the 2240 connected to the RCA out of my PS Audio Perfectwave DAC and Bridge, and the HDP connected to the RCA loop-out of my Woo WES, which is connected to the balanced out of the PWD&B.  I'm using anti-cables XLR and RCA interconnects for everything.  I've previously compared the two outputs and found them to sound essentially the same, and I actually use the loop-out to feed my ZDT amp because it eliminates the ground loop hum I get in the ZDT if I connect both amps to the PWD without a ground strap between amps.  
   
  I used Apple lossless music, with my Grado HF-2 plus some hard to drive Smeggy made custom 120ohm SFI orthodynamics, as they were within easy reach.  Both amps had the normal listening volume for the HF-2 at about 10 o'clock.  The SFI orthos are harder to drive and need about 11:30 on the 2240 volume, but even more on the HDP. * At first the sound of the two amps was not all that different, but after an hour of listening what I came away with was that the 2240 has a little better 3D layering, air, ambience, and depth.  Maybe it has a slightly stronger or warmer bass by about 1-2 dB as well. *
   
  Interestingly, I found that these are the same areas where my other HDP upstairs improved when I installed a 15V Sigma 11 PSU for it.  I'm guessing, if my future comparisons will bear this out, that the HDP and Sigma 11 PSU will even more closely match the sound out of the 2240 headphone jack.  Note - in previous comparisons of the HDP/S11 to my CEntrance DACmini using my LCD-2, the DACmini still won out by a small margin ($795) using each unit's built-in 24/96 USB DAC as the source with Macbook Pro.  However, the DACmini and HDP are underpowered for my HE-6.  So, soon I plan to bring the HE-6 and LCD-2 downstairs and give them a try with the Marantz too.


----------



## Skylab

@RexAeterna - I am using the receivers for both headphones and speakers. The Pioneer SX1250 is driving B&W Nautilus N805's in my Man Cave, and the Marantz 2275 is driving RBH Sound MC5c's in my office. Currently only the Sansui is not driving speakers, but I plan to rotate it out with the other two after I decide which of the two Sansui's I will keep.

@HeaphoneAddict - Larry, interesting that you note that the improve,improvements you hear with the Marantz are similar to the type of improvements you've hea when improving power supplies, because of course the Marantz has a very stout power supply!

@Musicman59 - Jose, thanks for that info - I will look into the Fortes!


----------



## HayU

I like the idea of the thread... thanks for starting.. I don't often post but will provide details as to what I have in terms of equipment. I assume by vintage you mean something older than 25 years or so?
  I currently (and for the forseeable future) have a Rotel RCC 945 CD Changer, combined with Rotel RA- 820B Integrated amplifier and Rotel RT-850 Tuner. The integrated amp appears to drive my Beyerdynamic DT990's, (600ohm) quite well. I am not a techie but I only need to set volume to around 3.5-4 on on a setting scale of 10 to get the volume I need. I listen to mostly Classical and Jazz, and most recordings sound great, even older recordings such as Oscar Petersons Night Train recorded in 1962
   
  I have been toying with the idea of purchasing a separate headphone amp and was wondering if this would realy make a difference to the overall sound quality from my headphones?
   
  Thanks
   
  Larry Y


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> @RexAeterna - I am using the receivers for both headphones and speakers. The Pioneer SX1250 is driving B&W Nautilus N805's in my Man Cave, and the Marantz 2275 is driving RBH Sound MC5c's in my office. Currently only the Sansui is not driving speakers, but I plan to rotate it out with the other two after I decide which of the two Sansui's I will keep.!





those are some hefty speakers. i bet you have fun moving those around. i think for your B&W's you might find your sansui's to do a better job at driving them compared to the pioneer especially when impedance dips below 4ohms. you should give it a try when you get it back from the tech. you might be very surprised. i never used the 1250 exactly but i saw the sx-5590 before(blackfaced military version of the 1250). it was an impressive looking piece.


----------



## ardgedee

Pulled the trigger, signed the bottom line, crossed the t's and dotted the i's and there'll be a *Fisher X-202-B* nestled into the hi-fi array next to my desk by Thursday evening. I could have taken it home today except the headphone jack has its left and right confused and so while that's getting fixed the pots will be cleaned and the solder joints checked as well.
   
 
   
  The jumpered reverb loop in the middle of the back panel will be a good place to attach a headphone crossfeed box. Which is what the cool kids use instead of reverb these days.
   
  Note the inputs are marked *A* and *B*, while the outputs are marked *Left* and *Right*. This is also observed on the front panel: The mode selector switch (third from left, lower row) refers to channels as *A* and *B*, while the output balance is marked *Left* and *Right*. This seems to be the manner of the day: I've got a Scott 222C from the same era in for refurbishment and it, too, refers to channels as *A* and *B*. Unlike the Fisher, The Scott's channels are uniformly *A* and *B* from input through output, *A* implicitly meaning *Left*.
   
  The gentleman who's working on it showed me how to wire up the speakers. It's remarkably counterintuitive, so that was appreciated.
   

   
  According to him, this is what a 4-ohm hookup looks like.
   
  Left and Right are connected differently. For an 8-ohm connection, the right channel has a wire move from RIGHT SPEAKER 4 to RIGHT SPEAKER 8 and for the left channel the blue wire moves from the GND terminal to the IMP SEL LEFT 8. A 16-ohm connection works similarly. What is the IMP SEL LEFT 4 terminal for? Apparently, it's the same as GND in the circuit, but putting the blue wire on GND keeps it out of the way, nothing more. I have a slightly different guess.
   
  This is my guess: Note there's a *Left*, *Center*, and *Right* channel. Center is a monophonic sum of Left and Right's signals. The Center terminals are labeled identically to the Left terminals. If you're running a Center in addition to stereo (back in the day, it might be a satellite speaker; these days, it might be a subwoofer), GND is a common 4 ohm impedance selection for the Left and Center channels. I don't really know, though: I haven't been able to find a user's manual. The service manual -- with full wiring diagram -- is easy to find, and the way things work can be sussed from that, but it's not quite a substitute for Fisher's own documentation of how they'd rather you do it.


----------



## Skylab

@RexAeterna - yeah I will try the Sansui with the N805 when it comes back, no doubt. Loving the SX-1250 with them, though, I gotta say. The N805 are the baby Nautilus so they are not so horrible to drive, like my monster N800's are. But they are pretty darned heavy for 2-ways.

@argedee - beautiful Fisher! Congrats.


----------



## VALIENTE

Excuse me guys, may I ask if this vintage amplifier has a nice headphone amp: *Pioneer SX-880*.

http://www.silverpioneer.netfirms.com/800_series_receivers.htm


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





valiente said:


> Excuse me guys, may I ask if this vintage amplifier has a nice headphone amp: *Pioneer SX-880*.


 

 May i ask what you paid for it


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## VALIENTE

cifani090 said:


> May i ask what you paid for it




I have seen one unit at around $150. Is this a good price? Do you have this receiver?


----------



## Zida

I don't know what the market is like where you are, but out here I'd consider that an average to quite good of a deal depending on the condition and whether or not it has been serviced relatively recently. IMO. There are other more experienced opinions on here.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





valiente said:


> Excuse me guys, may I ask if this vintage amplifier has a nice headphone amp: *Pioneer SX-880*.


 


  Buy it. It is one below my SX980 and two up from my SX650 and both those are excellent plus you get to cool meter on the 880 as on the 980


----------



## RexAeterna

valiente said:


> Excuse me guys, may I ask if this vintage amplifier has a nice headphone amp: *Pioneer SX-880*.
> 
> http://www.silverpioneer.netfirms.com/800_series_receivers.htm




it should do fine. check the schematics.....well naw give me a sec.i check. well i gave a quick look and it seems it uses a 150ohm@3w resistor for both the left and right channel between the headphone jack and power amp section. so basically if you plug a headphone of 150ohms into the socket you be able to drive up to 3w(3000mw) of power into that given impedance load.


----------



## 5aces

skylab said:


> No chance, man - due to the space.  The nice thing about the Heresies is they are not too big...




Late reply but here is a shot of my stacked Heresy II's:


For perspective,the 1985 Vandersteen Model 1 are app.3ft. tall.
The 1989 Klipsch Heresy II are on stands 18" high and are app.22" tall.
Stacked on top are 1980 JBL L112's,app.2 ft.tall.
Also running an active subwoofer.

Vandy's powered by a 1985 220W Vector Research receiver.
Klipsch fed with a scarce 1979 25W Pioneer M 22 amplifier,using a Marantz Model 2285 as a pre.
JBL driven by the Prince of vintage,a 1978 Sansui AU 20000.
All of these are connected via the tape loops.
A Creek OBH 22 can be installed between the pre/mains or between the tape loops of the receivers or integrated amp to provide remote volume control for watching the TV etc.

As a time traveller from the 70's this is my dream "wall of sound",like something out of an old Who concert.
I had the JBL 112 first and it was a choice to stack them with the earlier JBL 166 or the Heresy's.
Given that the sound preference is roughly split 50/50 for the 112's vs 166,I caved in to the urban legend that Paul Klipsch actually used a pair of Klipsch Heresy II's in his home.
I picked the Klipsch up used for $400.
Paired with the Pioneer M 22 you barely turn the volume and these speakers jump.
The Klipsch do me no wrong,they play loud and clear.Lively,dynamic detail-right in your face,like a good horn.
Vandersteen have a niceness about their sound and a contrasting 'pleasantry' to the Klipsch realism.
The JBL and the Sansui amp are a match made in heaven,the JBL's can be a tad bright but the Sansui tames them.
The brightness of the JBL's titanium tweeter is easily highlighted by some amplifiers.

This system will win friends and influence enemies,or at the very least provide a wonderful "break the lease" party.


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## cifani090

Quote: 





valiente said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think that is exactly what the market is for those units.


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## Frank I

Picked up a super clean G4500 Sansui for 45.00. This one looks new. No static very clean piece and well cared for. It weighs less than the SX650 but has 10 more watts than the SX650 and very close in sound signature to the Pioneer Silver Series. It driving the HE6 out of the headphone jasck at 9 very7 loud and clean. As the Pioneer still besting all my head amps in the SS arena and by a distance. For 45.00 I consider this a score and happy it handles my HE6 and D7000. No pigtail required . Will post pictures and more impressions as I get more time on it.


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## Skylab

That's very cool, Frank! We want pics


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## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's very cool, Frank! We want pics


 


  x2


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's very cool, Frank! We want pics


 


  I will but I can say its very nice for sure but I think I prefer the Pioneer both of them and the SX650 slightly better with more focus and better definition. But this one is very clean and weighs much less than the SX650 both list price similiar. Those Pioneer spoiled me.


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## moodyrn

I was thinking the other day and thought....."what took so long"!! When you look at some of these vintage amps, many of them have the recipe for producing great sound whether it's through headphones or speaker. They have very, very good and overly built power supplies, and fully discrete components and output stages. Even some higher end dedicated headphone amps are op amp driven. And the high end headphone amps with discrete output stages may sound good, but many of them lack power to drive every headphone. So even with those you have to be careful matching them to certain cans. You do save a lot of space with them, but many(not all) just don't have the guts some these vintage receivers have. I'm really speaking more so about solid state headphone amps. Vintage tube amps are great too, but there are many current production tube tube amps that are really great. Well....maybe not. I would say there are some. The highest rated tube amps now aren't really dedicated headphone amps. The leben among others are really tube integrated with headphone outs. So while there are very few "dedicated" headphone tube amps that will compete with the best of these vintage receivers you still may have to step up to a current production integrated to surpass some of the "monster" vintage receivers. And this is coming from a tube guy.


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## RexAeterna

moodyrn said:


> I was thinking the other day and thought....."what took so long"!! When you look at some of these vintage amps, many of them have the recipe for producing great sound whether it's through headphones or speaker. They have very, very good and overly built power supplies, and fully discrete components and output stages. Even some higher end dedicated headphone amps are op amp driven. And the high end headphone amps with discrete output stages may sound good, but many of them lack power to drive every headphone. So even with those you have to be careful matching them to certain cans. You do save a lot of space with them, but many(not all) just don't have the guts some these vintage receivers have. I'm really speaking more so about solid state headphone amps. Vintage tube amps are great too, but there are many current production tube tube amps that are really great. Well....maybe not. I would say there are some. The highest rated tube amps now aren't really dedicated headphone amps. The leben among others are really tube integrated with headphone outs. So while there are very few "dedicated" headphone tube amps that will compete with the best of these vintage receivers you still may have to step up to a current production integrated to surpass some of the "monster" vintage receivers. And this is coming from a tube guy.




yea but impedance is actually not a big deal at all as some believe since there is no matter what speaker or headphone used you will encounter spikes and dips across the frequency range. you can try to match the nominal impedance with either speaker or/and headphones but that's the avg/nominal impedance load given. you can't always assure perfect impedance matching with any amp. these vintage amps don't use any type of dedicated headphone out like some say. they just use a simple dropping resistor between the power amp section and headphone socket. the headphone socket is always tied within the speaker outputs from the same power amp used in the integrated amp/receiver. that's why they don't have trouble powering most if all headphones. only type of headphones i suggest never plug into the sockets of these amps are very sensitive 16ohm earbuds. you can fry those very easily. they might use a resistor but they were never meant for headphones that can be driven from weak sources.

headamps are basically of same design of power amps/receivers/integrated amps but are usually more portable and much much lighter in weight. headamps are basically very low-powered power amps/receivers/integrated amps.


----------



## moodyrn

That's the point I was making. The better the power supply is, "usually" the better the amp will sound. Many dedicated headphone amps just don't have the "guts" many of these vintage receivers have. They may have a similar design internally but will not sound as powerful and clean as some of these vintage receivers.


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## ardgedee

Quote:


rexaeterna said:


> headamps are basically very low-powered power amps/receivers/integrated amps.


 

 The Schitt Lyr may only have a published rating of 6 watts at 32 ohms, but that is equivalent to 24 watts into a conventional 8 ohm speaker load - low-powered, but not very low. The other Schitt amps are closer to 12-16 watts @ 8 ohms.
   
  Conversely, since most receivers/integrated amps have resistors at the headphone jack, there can be significantly less power available to headphones: A 100 WPC receiver's headphone jack might only drive a 32 ohm headphone load to 2 watts or so - in the same range as the Schitt Asgard, Violectric HPA V100, and other headphone amps. (*Edit:* This is tangential at best to the discussion regarding _quality_ of power supply, which I agree with you all on.)
   
  I cooked up a spreadsheet to calculate and compare things like speaker and headphone efficiency, and amplifier output at the speaker taps and headphone jack. If anybody else wants a copy (and/or check my work; I may be doing something wrong), I'll clean it up, make it Excel-friendly, and post it for download tomorrow.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> The Schitt Lyr may only have a published rating of 6 watts at 32 ohms, but that is equivalent to 24 watts into a conventional 8 ohm speaker load - low-powered, but not very low. The other Schitt amps are closer to 12-16 watts @ 8 ohms.
> 
> ...


----------



## moodyrn

The resistor value are not the same on integrated amps. In fact, some of them don't even have them at all. I had an old sony from the late 70s. I really couldn't plug any headphones into the jack. It was way too powerful. Even with 600ohm cans there would be a great amount of hiss. I checked the inside and there wasn't any resistors. The headphone out was the same as the speaker out. The only headphones I was ever able to plug in without the risk of damaging them was a pair of he-5s I had at the time. My fisher had a pair of 330ohm resistors(now 165). And even with the 165ohm I have in it now, my he-6 are underpowered. So I have to use the speaker out for those. Some have 120ohm resistors others have some impedance different from that. So the formula ardgedee used isn't really a true formula. It may be for some, but definitely not for most of the vintage receivers/integrateds. But one thing I think we could all agree on is the superiority of the power supplies. A two watt vintage will sound more powerful and more clean than a "typical" two watt dedicated headphone amp.


----------



## RexAeterna

ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> The Schitt Lyr may only have a published rating of 6 watts at 32 ohms, but that is equivalent to 24 watts into a conventional 8 ohm speaker load - low-powered, but not very low. The other Schitt amps are closer to 12-16 watts @ 8 ohms.
> 
> ...




i see what your saying but it depends cause all receivers/amps use different value resistors. it can range from anywhere of 120ohms@3w to 680ohms@2w. i mean you can easily change the resistor value of the receiver/amp to send 6w into 32ohms but that much will kill your hearing and the drivers since it only take a 1 MW for headphones to reach it's SPL of 86-92db due to it depending on how sensitive the headphone are. speakers it only takes 1w@ given sensitivity@1m. so that's why wattage is not much a big factor when powering speakers. same can go for headphones. it's usually the circuit tapeolgy design and how well it handles the shift of current and voltages change due to impedance spikes and dips. usually most amps/receivers won't have issues with big voltages and impedance spikes(16-100ohms) but it's the impedance load of 4ohms and under that can be an amp killer. that's speakers tho. most if all amps won't have issues running out of current or voltage for headphones. i'm not disagreeing either on your findings. it's good to see you know your stuff and i'm not hating on headamps at all. i will admit as well that i do not know everything.


----------



## scottiebabie

went to a vintage meet this afternoon to meet some fellow gearheads & despite mumbling&promising that im totally done with buying more vintage 'headamps", i couldnt help but brings these boys home.






   
  its the bizzaro twins - a JVC JR-S300 MkII & a slightly newer (early 80s)  Pioneer SX3600 fluroscan. besides giving the both of them a nice soaking of contact cleaner & surface scrubbing, i havent done much listening but initial impressions says im very impressed with the JVC driving the HD650 & the vintage Pro Linear speakers. its very clean & seems to have a bigger than usual bottom heft than the pioneer(s). im loving the famed JVC SEA 5band eq - every amp should have this! both of em even having power meters with the SX3600s fluroscan leading the way.
   
  reason i broke my promise not to buy anymore "headamps" is cos i snagged both for whooping $60! how can anyone pass it up?? booooyaaah!!
   
  O & i totally agree with Moodryn - its all about power....power supplies that is. no headamp or even modern day hifi amps (at least <$1k) can come close to the kind of power supplies these vintages have. its the main reason why they sound sooo good! go ask Skylab bout the trafo, power caps & psu's in his SX1250!


----------



## bunit

I'm a lot younger than the average poster in this thread I assume, but thats of course because it seems like I've inherited some gear that I didn't think of previously...this stuff is currently sitting in the garage with no use on them so I think I'll play around with them pretty soon.  
   
  what I have on my hands is:
   
  An EQ? it seems like... ADC Sound Shaper SS-315X
  An integrated receiver?   Sony Legato Linear STR-VX4
  Unrelated but also a JVC TD-W11x Stereo Double Cassette Deck..
   
   
  I've done a little googling on this but I guess I just want an opinion - are these worth playing around with my headphones with?  From what I understand they were used primarily for my dads speaker system...but headphones should be fine too right?  I currently don't have any high impedance headphones or anything but I'm interested to see how these might change the sound of my (admittedly very modest) headphone collection.  I'm guessing I need a source to feed them though so I'll probably have to find one since I'm guessing my iPod isn't going to cut it? ....I don't even have an amp right now so that makes me especially excited to possibly tinker with these garage goodies haha.
   
  Sorry for my ignorance and any help is greatly appreciated!
  also, I'm down to take pictures and post (uneducated) impressions if anybody is remotely interested


----------



## Skylab

Nice score Scottie!  How's the 3600 sound?  I've thought about getting a 3700 I have seen locally on CL - I like the Floroscan


----------



## mythless

I have a 3700 and it sounds nice and looks great.  It's very transparent in tonal signature, reminds me of Audio-gd stuff or even the Kicas.  Might be a tad bright/forward sounding with certain speakers.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nice score Scottie!  How's the 3600 sound?  I've thought about getting a 3700 I have seen locally on CL - I like the Floroscan


----------



## Frank I

I believe that was the beginning of the microprocessor amps. I have limited myself to the 70'v vintage receivers because they are analog. Not sure if those would be better than modern era receivers because of the advances in digital over the years.  I may be wrong but the receiver wars ended early 80;'s and the approach to receivers were different. The 80's marked the beginning of the integrated amplifiers and a new area of battles began but the receiver era was over.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Mythless.  It's not something I should get, having 4 big receivers as it is.  I want to get rid of the Sony STR-7800SD - it's nice, but it's not at the level of the others.  That said, I should not immediately go and replace it


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks Mythless.  It's not something I should get, having 4 big receivers as it is.  I want to get rid of the Sony STR-7800SD - it's nice, but it's not at the level of the others.  That said, I should not immediately go and replace it


 


  Haha, multiple listening spots.  Sony's are pretty well known I am sure you won't have any problems moving that unit.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





bunit said:


> I'm a lot younger than the average poster in this thread I assume, but thats of course because it seems like I've inherited some gear that I didn't think of previously...this stuff is currently sitting in the garage with no use on them so I think I'll play around with them pretty soon.
> 
> what I have on my hands is:
> 
> ...


 


  I'd say it's worth playing with.  What do you have to lose?  According to what I can find on audiokarma, it's a decent mid level receiver.


----------



## scottiebabie

on very brief listening, the SX3600 fluroscan is as Mythless described - clean transparent but not thin & brittle like the modern amps. it does seem a tad brighter as compared to the usual suspects but i'd have to really sit down & do a more detailed comparo.
   
  the JVC though does impress me more. it seems to have a very big & solid heft to the sound esp driving vintage speakers. on headphones, it drives the HD650 very well (as good if not better than anything in my repetoire) but not as refined & smooth with the HE5-LE where the Sui AU-517 is stil golden.
   
  all in all, everything works every meter swings every bulb lights so im very pleased for the money paid.
   
  @bunit, not sure about the Sony but ADC soundshapers had a very good rep. try it out & let us know.


----------



## Canuck57

Something to keep in mind with respect to vintage gear (not gears!) is that the general consensus is that gear before 1980 is of much better quality & sounds better than post 1980 gear...
   
  "What the heck happened in 1980?
 The exact date varies from brand to brand, but *the bottom fell out of the build quality*. Manufacturers sacrificed quality for production speed and started aiming at the 'general' market instead of the 'audiophile' market. Analog tuners were replaced with digital tuners. Discrete output devices were often replaced with integrated circuits, many of which are no longer available today. Some pre-1980 models used output ICs, and some post 1980 models were still well built."
   
  http://www.classicaudio.com/value/


----------



## Frank I

Here is a picture of the Sansui G4500 I picked up yesterday


----------



## Skylab

Sure looks nice! Can't believe how cheap you scored that. Nice one Frank!


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sure looks nice! Can't believe how cheap you scored that. Nice one Frank!


 


  Get this I found a guy who has two pairs of vintage speakers Bozac and Altec Horns with the radiator stuff that I may be able to score cheap. He the guy who sold the SX780 and has a 2270 at his brothers I may also be able to get under 100.00 if i work it.


----------



## Canuck57




----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





canuck57 said:


>


 


  Thats a nice G7000 there is a G9000 in Philly asking price 700.00 Too steep for me. I think I may only want one more receiver if I find a steal again it may be on the Marantz 2270 or 2275 . But if I found a G7,8 0r 9000 priced right I may bite. Hell was a day late on a Pioneer SX780 for under 100.00 could got it for 90.00 or less I sonoozed on hat one


----------



## Skylab

Canuck57 that G7000 is a beauty! Very nice. Love the look of those G series Sansui's.


----------



## wilyodysseus

I'm just now discovering vintage receivers, and I'm pretty impressed. The Marantz sounds fantastic. I also picked up a Sansui Solid State 200, but it needs some work (hopefully only a few transistors replaced). 

There's some beautiful gear in this thread.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


rexaeterna said:


> i see what your saying but it depends cause all receivers/amps use different value resistors. it can range from anywhere of 120ohms@3w to 680ohms@2w. i mean you can easily change the resistor value of the receiver/amp to send 6w into 32ohms but that much will kill your hearing and the drivers since it only take a 1 MW for headphones to reach it's SPL of 86-92db due to it depending on how sensitive the headphone are. speakers it only takes 1w@ given sensitivity@1m. so that's why wattage is not much a big factor when powering speakers. same can go for headphones. it's usually the circuit tapeolgy design and how well it handles the shift of current and voltages change due to impedance spikes and dips. usually most amps/receivers won't have issues with big voltages and impedance spikes(16-100ohms) but it's the impedance load of 4ohms and under that can be an amp killer. that's speakers tho. most if all amps won't have issues running out of current or voltage for headphones. i'm not disagreeing either on your findings. it's good to see you know your stuff and i'm not hating on headamps at all. i will admit as well that i do not know everything.


 

 This is all true, and I set the calculator up to make the value of the inline resistance changeable on the fly, since I doubt this is a standard value across receivers/integrateds/etc. So for the Fisher coming my way (which, like moodyrn's, has a 330 ohm resistor in the headphone line), the headphone jack maxes out at 0.7 watts at 32 ohm (!), which by current standards seems inefficient for many popular inefficient and/or high-impedance cans. Take out those resistors and it can manage a probably overly-generous 8 watts into 32 ohm.
   
  I've put the calculator on Google Docs and set it to allow anybody to edit in their own values.
   
  This originated as a way to calculate headphone volume (in dB) in terms of amplifier output, transducer efficiency and transducer impedance, to satisfy my curiosity regarding that. So I extended it to also translate power output at arbitrary impedance values. You can enter the watt and impedance values for your receivers and headphone amps, efficiency and impedance values for your headphones and speakers, and it will accommodate to the best of its ability. I had to make some assumptions to construct this, and those assumptions might not be accurate. Corrections are welcome!


----------



## mralexosborn

I found an SX-6000 for $100 in my area. Hmm...


----------



## ardgedee

I don't mean to derail the thread too much with wonkery, by the way.
   
  So I just wanna say here that I'm envious of the Canadians in this thread who are making some fantastic finds. It makes me want to try thrift-shop hunting when I'm in Vancouver next month, although some of these big ol' receivers might not fit in my carry-on, even if I throw out all the clothes.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I don't mean to derail the thread too much with wonkery, by the way.
> 
> So I just wanna say here that I'm envious of the Canadians in this thread who are making some fantastic finds. It makes me want to try thrift-shop hunting when I'm in Vancouver next month, although some of these big ol' receivers might not fit in my carry-on, even if I throw out all the clothes.


 

 Canadians? I'm envious of all of you across the pond. To ship a SX-1250 to England would cost around $450 (US) and that's without not even being able to try it first.


----------



## youngngray

I've got a whole stereo system from Kenwood from, I believe '87. I'm not exactly sure as it was my Dad's. It has each of the components separate, i.e. separate Power Amp, Control Amplifier, FM Tuner, CD Player, Tape Deck, Turntable, and Remote control system. I don't have each of the parts with me at the moment so I can't post all of the model numbers but the Power Amp is a KM-205, and the Control Amp is a KC-105. ATM I just have it driving a less than power-hungry pair of Polk R-10's and it sounds quite good, though I do admit that I don't have much to compare it against.

I've done numerous google searches on the equipment, but I haven't been able to find many real details about the system in general, like the specs, model year, original price, etc. If anyone knows anything about them or finds anything out, it would be awesome if you let me know because I'm still curious.


----------



## mythless

Depends where in Canada you live.  Not much in my area but when a deal comes it goes quick.  Lots of hunters out there, lol...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I don't mean to derail the thread too much with wonkery, by the way.
> 
> So I just wanna say here that I'm envious of the Canadians in this thread who are making some fantastic finds. It makes me want to try thrift-shop hunting when I'm in Vancouver next month, although some of these big ol' receivers might not fit in my carry-on, even if I throw out all the clothes.


 

 LOL! i wouldnt bother with the thrift shops atleast not in vancouver as theres nothing to be found nowadays. i did that way back when so i know. most of my finds are thru the local CL, ppl that i know & ppl that i've bought offa. as mentioned, eyes wide opened 24/7 is the best tool to getting deals IMO. heh
   
  if u want, let me know what ya seeking cos if i have it, i mite let go for a fellow headfier.


----------



## Frank I

One thing with craig list you need to check it daily sometimes more than once to make a find. I picked up two of the receivers off of craig list and look constantly and search all areas within 1hr drive and  thats =how I got lucky with the G4500


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> LOL! i wouldnt bother with the thrift shops atleast not in vancouver as theres nothing to be found nowadays. i did that way back when so i know. most of my finds are thru the local CL, ppl that i know & ppl that i've bought offa. as mentioned, eyes wide opened 24/7 is the best tool to getting deals IMO. heh
> 
> if u want, let me know what ya seeking cos if i have it, i mite let go for a fellow headfier.


 

 That's appreciated, but I have to travel light, and hi-fi gear of the era was anything but...
   
  I'm enjoying the mental picture of trying to bring something like Frank I's Sansui G-7000 through customs in a carry-on bag, though.


----------



## scottiebabie

just so happens theres a G7500 selling for $350 locally hehe! too rich for my blood though. dont know bout the regs on bringing big heavy electronics aboard planes but u do realize that its about 40lbs naked rite! LOL


----------



## Skylab

So here is the latest addition to my vintage rig:
   

   
   
  Really nice Teac reel-to-reel deck.  I have been enjoying it a lot, even though I only have about a half-dozen tapes to play 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  One last thing to add this week, then my vintage rig will be complete


----------



## Canuck57

that's a beauty Skylab!


----------



## Canuck57

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> just so happens theres a G7500 selling for $350 locally hehe! too rich for my blood though. dont know bout the regs on bringing big heavy electronics aboard planes but u do realize that its about 40lbs naked rite! LOL


 

 Just to give you an idea of used market values I paid $250 CDN for my Sansui G-7000, about $275 for a Marantz 2245 (with wood case), $250 for a Sansui AU-7900 Integrated (the best of all my vintage gear) ...... my other Marantz receivers were $200 to $300 with wood cases.... Also have a Kenwood Integrated beast...forget the model # was $275...........All the gear is pre 1980 which is better quality & more sought after....


----------



## imdskydiver

I had a 30 + year old JVC A-X9 Super A Receiver , (100 watts per channel )  that i paired up with some Koss 1030's
  The JVC  was vastly superior to  the Yahama RX v1800 that i have now . It's hard to believe that in 30 + years there hasn't been some huge technological improvements .
   I think i paid $1200.00 for it new .


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So here is the latest addition to my vintage rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  LMAO wait till you see the cost of the music. What else you adding . Vintage Bozac or Altec speakers would be nice I am working on those and found two pairs that I will give a listen too.


----------



## RexAeterna

frank i said:


> Picked up a super clean G4500 Sansui for 45.00. This one looks new. No static very clean piece and well cared for. It weighs less than the SX650 but has 10 more watts than the SX650 and very close in sound signature to the Pioneer Silver Series. It driving the HE6 out of the headphone jasck at 9 very7 loud and clean. As the Pioneer still besting all my head amps in the SS arena and by a distance. For 45.00 I consider this a score and happy it handles my HE6 and D7000. No pigtail required . Will post pictures and more impressions as I get more time on it.




*looks at location*

you little punk you lol. i was eyeing up that sansui for some time now. i just didn't have cash when i saw it. when i went to look for it,it was gone. i think i now know who's been buying up all the good gear. at least i still find some good speaker finds at my local goodwill for good prices.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I need to try your goodwill next LMAO. I should check couple those out to see whats there but that dude in Maple SWhade buys up all that stuff.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 there is one more on there but he wants 100.00 but you can tell him what I paid


----------



## RexAeterna

frank i said:


> I need to try your goodwill next LMAO. I should check couple those out to see whats there but that dude in Maple SWhade buys up all that stuff.




guy in maple shade? dang. i guess lot more people knows about this stuff then i thought. atleast i'm happy with my sansui 5000x score for 65 bucks and sansui au-d7 for 50 bucks locally. both in perfect working cosmatic condition. i just never had luck with headphone scores or saw any at all. mostly speakers,tape decks and sometimes but rare for me receivers/amps at my local GW.


----------



## RexAeterna

frank i said:


> there is one more on there but he wants 100.00 but you can tell him what I paid




thanks. i'll see what he says but you know how some people are when negotiated.


----------



## 2sick2pray

Found a Yamaha R500  40wpc Analog Reciever at the local thriftshop and it was $2 bag day apparently. Cleaned it up and sprayed the switches, and viola great Yammy sound and perfect tuner. Without an antenae it still pulled in the local FM beautifully. If I could I would post pics but my Palm and HP are fighting right now. Best score I had.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


skylab said:


> Really nice Teac reel-to-reel deck.  I have been enjoying it a lot, even though I only have about a half-dozen tapes to play
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A lava lamp?
   
  Love the Teac. One of the really wonderful things about old tube gear and old analog gear is all the exposed working bits. There's a primal sense for some people in seeing the glowing glass in their amp and knowing it's not a simple pilot light, it's a byproduct of the electricity and audio signals going through them. Or in watching tape thread through the spools moments before it's turned into sound.
   
  I don't have analog gear any more, but I still find it lovely to look at.


----------



## Skylab

I SHOULD get a lava lamp! LOL.

One of the things I like about this vintage rig is how much fun it is both to look at and to listen to. I still love my modern high end speaker rig, but it cost abbot twenty times what this vintage rig cost me, and sure isn't 20 times better.


----------



## CrazyRay

Nice score Skylab!!!!
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So here is the latest addition to my vintage rig:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I SHOULD get a lava lamp! LOL.


 
   
  ...want one? PM me if you do because I've got one going to Goodwill soon otherwise.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> ...want one? PM me if you do because I've got one going to Goodwill soon otherwise.


 


  PICTURES!


----------



## Skylab

ardgedee said:


> ...want one? PM me if you do because I've got one going to Goodwill soon otherwise.


Appreciate the offer but don't have room. Every inch filled with gear or music


----------



## ardgedee

But but but... Accurately positioning a lava lamp on top of your speakers is just the thing to bring a liquid midrange and radiant highs to the presentation and... yeah. I got nuffin'.
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> PICTURES!


 

 Hah, maybe tonight. It's in a box full of stuff destined for charities. I don't think it's been powered up in a decade.
   
  Well, if anybody reading this is willing to meet me in southeastern Michigan to hand it off, PM me and you can get a free lava lamp.
   
  (*Edit:* I suppose I should be trying to trade this up for somebody's receiver, but I don't have room for one of those either. Oh well.)


----------



## Frank I

The Sansui G4500 has a great FM tuner. I am using a cheap 2.95 300 ohm antenna and get almost full strength on the meters. This is one cool little dude for sure. A blast listening to the Philly rock stations


----------



## VALIENTE

Guys, I have seen a vintage Marantz 2230 receiver. Is it also a nice receiver? It's price is around $250. 

Frank I, between Pionner SX-880 and Marantz 2230, in your own opinion, which one has a better headphone amp ?


----------



## Frank I

The Pioneer SX880 will be better and buy a wide margin. Even my Sansui G4500 was better than the 2220B I owned. The SX880 is I believe 60W and buiklt like a tank with the cool wattage meters I would go Pioneer. If your going marantz 2270 or 2275 is the way to go but my money would go to the 880SX and thats way too much for the 2230. There is one on craigs list here asking 75.00


----------



## scottiebabie

thats one cool R2R rig but then again, TEAC made some great gear. congrats Skylab.
   
  hey Frank, i can remember it wasnt too long ago when u werent too impressed when i gave my 2cents on your then newly acquired 2216. & there u are parroting my sentiments! LOL! seriously though, Franks absolutely correct. for now atleast, silver pioneers are one of the best values in amps. get one (or 2) while its still cheap


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> thats one cool R2R rig but then again, TEAC made some great gear. congrats Skylab.
> 
> hey Frank, i can remember it wasnt too long ago when u werent too impressed when i gave my 2cents on your then newly acquired 2216. & there u are parroting my sentiments! LOL! seriously though, Franks absolutely correct. for now atleast, silver pioneers are one of the best values in amps. get one (or 2) while its still cheap


 


  the 2220B was Ok it was not in the same league even as the Pioneer SX650 which was the same list price. Both Pioneers are better and the Sansui would rank  as also being better than the 2220B amp I had. The Marantz bass was not as tight maybe deeper but not as detailed as all the others. The 980 is my favorite receiver. The G9000 is way too e xpensive unless i get lucky and I have no more room for the bigger Pioneer 1250 or 1280 but from what i see with the Siver Series they are all the same sound signature just different power and thea 80W will power anything if I want some speakers which is a good possibility if the wife caves and lets me put another Floorstander in the living room or a maggie again. The bigger Marantz would be nice and I have my eyes open for a 2270 or 2275 if I find one reasonable local


----------



## Skylab

OK, Vintage rig complete 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Only thing not pictured here is the LCD-2.
   




   
  The last shot shows one of the B&W N805's.  And for those who are worried about me, the Sansui EQ is not in the signal path - it's just for the cool spectrum analyzer display


----------



## Frank I

Rob great pictures and super layout buddy. When i get to Chicago I am coming over to hear that stuff.


----------



## moodyrn

That's one impressive rig indeed. Not only is it an impressive vintage rig, but it's impressive no matter how you look at it. You would have to spend thousands on modern gear to supass that. My vintage rig sounds so good, I now consider it my main rig.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Rob great pictures and super layout buddy. When i get to Chicago I am coming over to hear that stuff.


 

 You know you are welcome anytime, buddy!
   


  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That's one impressive rig indeed. Not only is it an impressive vintage rig, but it's impressive no matter how you look at it. You would have to spend thousands on modern gear to supass that. My vintage rig sounds so good, I now consider it my main rig.


 

 Thanks, and LOL - same here - I'm spending most of my listening time with this rig!  I just love it.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK, Vintage rig complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Holly crap Rob!!!
  That is so beautiful!!! I am full of good envy....I want one of those Pioneer SX-1250!!!


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK, Vintage rig complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Fantastic!  Reminds me of a rig one of my friend's dad had back in the 70's that I used to drool over!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK, Vintage rig complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Fabulous Skylab, i keep looking at it and wondering what that is between the equalizer.


----------



## Skylab

davo50 and Cifani090' thanks for the kind words, but please edit your posts so they do not have the quote box - the pics don't need to be repeated so many times  Thank you.

Cifani090, not sure what you mean by "between" - do you mean the spectrum analyzer display, which is the blue lights between the left and right fader banks?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> davo50 and Cifani090' thanks for the kind words, but please edit your posts so they do not have the quote box - the pics don't need to be repeated so many times
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Its right on the middle shelf, in the middle between the two pieces of equipment.


----------



## Skylab

Ahhhh...that is a Discwasher record cleaning kit 

And thanks for editing your posts guys, and again thanks for the kind words! The vintage rig is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ahhhh...that is a Discwasher record cleaning kit
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 






, what kind of turntable is "Daddy's Turntable?"


----------



## ardgedee

The Fisher X-202-B is finally in its new home and warmed up.
   
  Holy cats. This thing is the HE-6's new best friend.


----------



## Skylab

ardgedee said:


> The Fisher X-202-B is finally in its new home and warmed up.
> 
> Holy cats. This thing is the HE-6's new best friend.


Yep, that is going to be a KILLER combo I am sure.



cifani090 said:


> , what kind of turntable is "Daddy's Turntable?"



LOL - That's the Denon DP59L, as drawn by my daughter 7 years ago


----------



## CrazyRay

That is really nice Skylab!!!!
   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK, Vintage rig complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ardgedee

Spent a little more time with The Fisher / HE-6 combo. Had a brief writeup prepared about its particular tonal profile, and then saw that I had iTunes EQ engaged for the work office listening setup, and it should have been disengaged. Whoops.
   
  I don't think there's any getting around that this amp is going to be warm, both thermally and audibly, but it will bear re-listening to give it a fair shake. Even with caveat noted, it was already a fine combo just for giving the HE-6 the energy it so desperately craves.


----------



## Skylab

The Fisher amps are warm and tubey.  No doubt.  But sometimes that's just what the doctor ordered


----------



## scottiebabie

dang i so would like to play with a vintage fisher/hh scott/eico/marantz/sansui tubie amp but havnt seen any locally as yet - least nothings thats in reasonable condition at a decent deal. im very envious!


----------



## ardgedee

I still have a Scott 222C coming my way. I've had it for a long while without being able to hear it, so it's finally getting fixed up and running. Years ago, I had managed to get it for extremely cheap, but I couldn't afford to get it serviced at the time and it ended up languishing in storage.
   
  I can only keep either the Fisher or the Scott, not both, so I'll be doing some careful listening when the Scott returns in a few weeks. A friend has dibs on the one I don't keep, but if he declines I'll put it up for sale.
   
  I'm sure some intelligent tube rolling can smooth out The Fisher's response, but that's yet another rabbit hole of obsession...


----------



## livewire

I loves my Sui 1000. (first year build: 1963)
   
  Last year i picked it up as a $50 barn find.
  Full of dust, rat turds and cobwebs and overspray.
  Power output sweep tubes were shot, all others tested fine.
  $100 worth of russian tubes and JJ electrolytic caps later, it sounds wonderful.
  32 watts of tubey splendor driving my 1972 vintage Rogers Sound Labs mini-monitors.


----------



## ardgedee

That's a beautiful looking piece, livewire! What is the red eye on the left of the display for?


----------



## livewire

Thanks ardgedee!
   
  The semi-circular legend around the eye says "MPX INDICATOR".
  1963 was the dawning of "true" FM stereo. Back then they called it FM Multiplex or just "MPX" for short.
  It lights up when a FM stereo signal is detected.
  Back then not all FM transmissions were in stereo, many were mono.
  The eye is the equivalent of the later FM STEREO indicators found on more modern receivers.
   
  Prior to this model year, if one wanted to receive "simulated stereo", they would need to buy
  a receiver with dual tuner controls/bands. A separate knob for FM and another one for AM.
  You would then tune in the left channel on one tuner and then tune the right channel with the other.
  (the FM radio station would tell you where to tune on the AM band for that half of the broadcast.)
  The internally mixed or "multiplexed" or "multipath" tuner signals were then sent to the amp section and then to the outputs.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Spent a little more time with The Fisher / HE-6 combo. Had a brief writeup prepared about its particular tonal profile, and then saw that I had iTunes EQ engaged for the work office listening setup, and it should have been disengaged. Whoops.
> 
> I don't think there's any getting around that this amp is going to be warm, both thermally and audibly, but it will bear re-listening to give it a fair shake. Even with caveat noted, it was already a fine combo just for giving the HE-6 the energy it so desperately craves.


 

  
   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Fisher amps are warm and tubey.  No doubt.  But sometimes that's just what the doctor ordered


 

 Yep, especially with the he-6. They are bordering analytical and clinical with solid state amps imo. The fisher makes them more fun and musical sounding. They still sound excellent through my pioneer, but my fisher makes them a little lush and romantic sounding. One thing about the fisher, it doesn't pair well with all the headphones I've tried. But with certain headphones it can sound magical and almost addictive.


----------



## JCred

I have the opportunity to purchase a Pioneer SX-450 for $45 that is purported to be in perfect working condition. Is this a good deal?


----------



## RexAeterna

frank i said:


> The Sansui G4500 has a great FM tuner. I am using a cheap 2.95 300 ohm antenna and get almost full strength on the meters. This is one cool little dude for sure. A blast listening to the Philly rock stations




i never used an antenna before. i just hook up some speaker wire to the 75ohm and 300ohm screws in the back for fm radio on my sansui 5000x and works wonders. when i test receivers before i buy them to see if the fm works is use your 2 fingers and you'll be one giant antenna if you ever need to do testing on the tuner.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> OK, Vintage rig complete
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i'm totally jealous of that awesome set-up. you know what time it is tho. time for some fun music listening sessions and later try to work with the acoustics of the room to have more fun.

fun thing i love to do is voice testing. like if you enter a room with drywall or plaster and talk or yell you'll hear a nice echo from the reflections. then you go into a room with either carpet on the walls and ceilings or acoustic padding and you can yell all you want without no sign of echo/reflections. i like to do it for the LOL's and i find it amusing for myself playing around like that.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


livewire said:


> Thanks ardgedee!
> 
> The semi-circular legend around the eye says "MPX INDICATOR".
> 1963 was the dawning of "true" FM stereo. Back then they called it FM Multiplex or just "MPX" for short.
> ...


 

 Cool. I thought it might indicate multiplex/stereo but it looked weirdly huge for that purpose. By your description it makes sense they'd want to draw attention to such a major new feature, though.
   
  The place where I found the Fisher has a big ol' Lafayette mono tuner. They haven't had an easy time trying to sell it... (I make it sound like a place lost in time, but I don't think they have any electronics for sale that are as old as these, aside from what I've already mentioned. Maybe some turntables.)


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i'm totally jealous of that awesome set-up. you know what time it is tho. time for some fun music listening sessions and later try to work with the acoustics of the room to have more fun.
> 
> fun thing i love to do is voice testing. like if you enter a room with drywall or plaster and talk or yell you'll hear a nice echo from the reflections. then you go into a room with either carpet on the walls and ceilings or acoustic padding and you can yell all you want without no sign of echo/reflections. i like to do it for the LOL's and i find it amusing for myself playing around like that.


 


  Thanks Rex!  There has been a LOT of fun music listening there already, and much more to come - I'm actually spending most of my music listening time these days with this rig!
   
  Acoustic treatment up there is a complete non-starter, though.  There is nice thick carpet on the floor, but that is the best I will get.  My wife does have limits to her understanding


----------



## wualta

Another reason the STEREO indicator is so big is that there were no LEDs. They'd just been invented and weren't yet cheap enough to use in consumer gear. Back in the day, indicator lamps were little incandescents roughly the diameter of your average green pea. So in this case, though I'm sure they were proud of the new stereo capability, it may just be because that they used a standard #47 indicator lamp.


----------



## ardgedee

The plastic jewels for the status lamps on the Fisher amp are 5mm wide. The lamp housing (which looks to be a tube of stiff canvas - I hope it's organic and not asbestos) is quite a bit larger but the inner diameter of it appears to be only a couple mm wider than the jewel. So Sansui could've made their lamp smaller if they wanted to; whether they chose otherwise out of economy, design or marketing strategy is probably lost to history.
   
  (Why yes, I always keep a caliper on my desk.)
   
  Of course all that's really important is whether small lamps improve the sound quality more than large lamps. More listening time is called for. Much more...


----------



## wualta

My guess is that it's asbestos. Don't poke it up your nose and you'll be fine. As for the effect of lamp size on sound quality, you could always indulge in some lamp-rolling...


----------



## RexAeterna

i don't know if this right place to say anything but i put my near mint and well taken care of silver faced Sansui AU-D7 amp for trade on CL. not gonna post it since be considered advertisment. only in south jersey tho so if anyones interested. i barely use it and for some reason i'm interested into hearing some yamaha gear.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


wualta said:


> My guess is that it's asbestos. Don't poke it up your nose...


 

 There goes that idea. Oh well.
   
  A little more seriously, a couple of the bulbs are out, so I'm eventually going to have to get behind the front panel to replace things. Maybe with white LEDs so I (or the next owner) won't have to worry about it for a few years.


----------



## RexAeterna

well i got a trade offer already for my sansui au-d7. guy wants to trade me a 1980's yamaha R-9 Class A receiver for it. it's 125wpc@8ohms so it provides more power than my sansui at 80wpc@8ohm and my sansui is considered class A/B. he told me he had no issues driving 4ohm Mirage 290 bookshelf speakers since he had it so i might take up his offer and give it a try. thing about Class A amps is they run hot since class A amps are ineffcient and always have all transistors active. cool thing is it has a button to turn off the Class A mode and go to class A/B mode for cooler runs and for more power needed. i read it only stays in class A up to 35w or so but that's plenty of power for my pioneer floor speakers with 3 6ohm peerless mid-woofers since it only takes 1w@1m to reach 87db.


----------



## Canuck57

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> well i got a trade offer already for my sansui au-d7. guy wants to trade me a 1980's yamaha R-9 Class A receiver for it. it's 125wpc@8ohms so it provides more power than my sansui at 80wpc@8ohm and my sansui is considered class A/B. he told me he had no issues driving 4ohm Mirage 290 bookshelf speakers since he had it so i might take up his offer and give it a try. thing about Class A amps is they run hot since class A amps are ineffcient and always have all transistors active. cool thing is it has a button to turn off the Class A mode and go to class A/B mode for cooler runs and for more power needed. i read it only stays in class *A up to 35w or so but that's plenty of power for my pioneer floor speakers with 3 6ohm peerless mid-woofers since it only takes 1w@1m to reach 87db*.


 
   
  87db speakers are not very efficient, they require more amplifier wattage than you might think,,,,
   
  http://www.axiomaudio.com/power.html


----------



## ardgedee

It depends on speaker placement and the size of the room. My bookshelf speakers are not particularly efficient (88 dB), but they get plenty of headroom on little power because they're mounted on my desk less than a meter from my ears and a couple cm away from the wall. If they were a conventional 2-3 meters away from me, I don't think I'd be as happy with the setup.


----------



## RexAeterna

canuck57 said:


> 87db speakers are not very efficient, they require more amplifier wattage than you might think,,,,
> 
> http://www.axiomaudio.com/power.html




no speaker is very efficient from a power standpoint. Power delivered equals power consumed. your talking about my speakers sensitivity.

87db is pretty loud and i don't listen to my speakers at ear piercing spl's. it does depend on the room as well and the walls used cause frequencies reflect off the walls and that cause a db increase or decrease at certain frequencies. i say 35w if running in class A plenty of juice and the yamaha can run 2ohm loads no problem either. you be surprise how loud a 10w tube amp can sound through speakers(just saying).

it comes down to more than watts. usually all depends on how well the amp handles impedance dips and spikes load that matters. i haven't decided yet. i actually have couple more interesting people willing to pay me my asking price and one person wants to throw me an extra 50 bucks just to hold it. i didn't know i would get this much interests in my amp this quickly but i most likely decide to trade with the guy maybe. i'm thinking about it.


----------



## scottiebabie

Rex...buddy try to hold out for one of the higher yami CA series if possible. there u have a great combo of sweet 'natural' sound with true Class A juice (via a switch inside the case on CA8xx & up). i've often heard of the CA10xx being bandied around amoungst the best integrateds made. indeed i've got my eyes peeled watching for a score locally.
   
  ps:FWIW my power meters shows me that the meat of the music happens within the initial 10w & most anything else is just headroom transients - all within reasonable sound levels ofcos. as someones once told me 'u can have all the power u want buts its the 1st 10watts thats most important'


----------



## Inkmo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That the phono input is lower in level is not a great surprise - a modern CD player will have a much higher voltage level hitting the AUX input than what was available back then.  The "much bassier" part is harder to say, might be the cartridge, might be the Pioneer's phono stage.


 


  Coming back to this from a while ago.  Got a cheapy mini to RCA cable that fit my receiver and ran my Rockboxed iPod through it and listened on my Grados.  I played the same track on vinyl and ogg and switched back in forth.  I was able to determine that my turntable is about 10dB quiter than something playing on AUX or tape inputs.  The sound signatures between the two were actually pretty similar, so I think whatever perceived difference I had in sound signature are either the fault of my speakers or my room.  The TT had some noise and ramble, obviously.  The bass and mids were maybe a little bleedier, but it's not high end gear, so I don't think that's a huge disappointment.  They were still similar enough that I occasionally forgot which was which.


----------



## RexAeterna

scottiebabie said:


> Rex...buddy try to hold out for one of the higher yami CA series if possible. there u have a great combo of sweet 'natural' sound with true Class A juice (via a switch inside the case on CA8xx & up). i've often heard of the CA10xx being bandied around amoungst the best integrateds made. indeed i've got my eyes peeled watching for a score locally.
> 
> ps:FWIW my power meters shows me that the meat of the music happens within the initial 10w & most anything else is just headroom transients - all within reasonable sound levels ofcos. as someones once told me 'u can have all the power u want buts its the 1st 10watts thats most important'




i was doing that when i first posted it. found out actually the R-9 uses the same power amp inside it as the MXX power amps from yamaha . person told me i can always trade back if i get better offer or don't like the yamaha.supposedly also from trying to find info around it on audiokarma some people actually prefer the later Rxx series to the CR/CA series. i know it's matter of preference. i have no idea. if i like the amp i might keep it. if not i can always put my sansui back up for sale cause i didn't realize how sought after it was. he was the first person to hit me up so i was thinking of going by first come first serve bases but i tell him i think i might wait it out a bit for a few days to see if i get any better offers.


----------



## Skylab

I tell you what, fellas, the Pioneer SX-1250 has pretty much turned my audio world on its ear. LPs and reel tapes sounded so awesome on it that I felt I had to bring my AVA DAC up to the attic so I could improve digital playback in this rig. That was a huge mistake, in that now I need to buy another one. No way can I live without the AVA in the vintage rig, This rig now sounds so good it's just SICK. I simply can't believe what the SX-1250 is capable of. It's driving $2500/pair loudspeakers from a $2K DAC, and it is delivering the whole enchilada, absolutely no doubt. I just got done playing the new Alison Krauss record on it for the 4th time in that last 3 days, and I cannot get enough.


----------



## cifani090

How can i use my headphone out for my ipod. I am using a 1/8 to 1/8 to a 1/4 adaptor. My amp is a Kenwood 9000gx


----------



## Happy Camper

For those willing to do some investigating, the 70s era receivers were the heyday. I remember the Bose 901 ver. II were unlimited power rated and a friend had one of the big Pioneers hooked up to them. To this day, that was a highlight system. Another was two pair of large Advents stacked on a Pioneer. Ahh the good old days of Utah woofers and Infinity ribbons, Snell and Dalquist, Apogees and Quads.


----------



## Happy Camper

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> How can i use my headphone out for my ipod. I am using a 1/8 to 1/8 to a 1/4 adaptor. My amp is a Kenwood 9000gx


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





happy camper said:


>


 

 I do have one of those going to my computer. But there is no way for me to use the headphone out for my ipod with the listed 1/4 to 1/8?


----------



## ardgedee

The Fisher in its new home, perched atop a 70s-era Realistic tuner I haven't had time to plug in yet.
   

   
  Some of the glowingest tubes I've seen. The 7591s are original, with THE FISHER stamped on the bases. It'd be interesting to know who the OEM was.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I tell you what, fellas, the Pioneer SX-1250 has pretty much turned my audio world on its ear. LPs and reel tapes sounded so awesome on it that I felt I had to bring my AVA DAC up to the attic so I could improve digital playback in this rig. That was a huge mistake, in that now I need to buy another one. No way can I live without the AVA in the vintage rig, This rig now sounds so good it's just SICK. I simply can't believe what the SX-1250 is capable of. It's driving $2500/pair loudspeakers from a $2K DAC, and it is delivering the whole enchilada, absolutely no doubt. I just got done playing the new Alison Krauss record on it for the 4th time in that last 3 days, and I cannot get enough.


 












   


  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I do have one of those going to my computer. But there is no way for me to use the headphone out for my ipod with the listed 1/4 to 1/8?


 

 that would be a biggg NOPE. aint no way to gain input via 1/4" 1/8" 1/16" or 1 whateva. all inputs on vintage gear are via RCAs with some accepting EU DIN plugs. do the rite thang & git yaself a 1/8-RCA cable & ya golden!


----------



## scompton

I'd suggest getting a line out dock or cable.  If you use the headphone out, you'll need to crank the volume all the way up to get line out levels out of the headphone jack.  I did this when I first got my iPod.  It's very easy to forget the volume is at 100% and turn it on with IEMs.  Very painful.
   
  My suggestion is to get an Apple, Sendstation, or other brand dock and the cable shown above, or a line out cable with RCA termination.  Like this http://www.ramelectronics.net/ipod-mp3/ipod-cables/ipod-extreme-series/i-extreme-ipod-docking-to-stereo-rca-cable/prodIFEPDRCA.html


----------



## elrod-tom

Is that an X-202-B?  Looks a lot like mine...well, except for the Fisher 7591's.  They're in the 500C in lieu of new EH's in the X-202-B.  What can I say?  The 500C was a gift from my father in law.  Couldn't very well put the NEW tubes in THERE?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Gonna have to get some pics up sometime soon...maybe after I finish rewiring my system in my den later today.
   


  


  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The Fisher in its new home, perched atop a 70s-era Realistic tuner I haven't had time to plug in yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the glowingest tubes I've seen. The 7591s are original, with THE FISHER stamped on the bases. It'd be interesting to know who the OEM was.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


elrod-tom said:


> Is that an X-202-B?  Looks a lot like mine...well, except for the Fisher 7591's.  They're in the 500C in lieu of new EH's in the X-202-B.  What can I say?  The 500C was a gift from my father in law.  Couldn't very well put the NEW tubes in THERE?


 

  Yup, it's an X-202-B. I haven't checked the other tubes - mostly 12AX7 - for vintage and provenance, but I suspect they're not going to be newer. The amp seems to have suffered a great deal more from idleness than overuse and so far the bottles don't seem the worse for wear.
   
  I'm keeping a close eye on it. There's an acceptably minuscule amount of ground hum, but there's a buzzing coming from somewhere on the right side of the chassis - it's either the big transformer or one of the capacitors in front of it.
   
  The platform they're on is nearly the only space I can dedicate to audio gear, and as you can see it's pretty crowded. So after settling down with a favorite setup, I'm going to have to sell off the less-favorite stuff. Deciding will be hard, because there's not a clinker there; only good and better. This is not a bad problem to have.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


cifani090 said:


> I do have one of those going to my computer. But there is no way for me to use the headphone out for my ipod with the listed 1/4 to 1/8?


 

 There are some decent portable line-out docks for around $10-30 (link goes to search results on amazon.com). The cheaper ones simply have an iPod dock plug on one side, and a 1/8" stereo plug on the other - Fiio makes some well-regarded economical ones. The more expensive LODs (such as the SendStation models; I have one by Nuforce that doesn't appear to be listed any more) have a 1/8" stereo jack and a mini-USB (or micro-USB) jack - so you can plug the adaptor into the iPod and the cable above into the adaptor, and then you can keep the iPod charged through a USB line. For a tabletop dock, there are all kinds available, from cheapos through the usual direct-from-China vendors to high-end custom models with sculpted bases. If you have an iPod that's a couple years old, you can usually economize and get an original Apple dock (or licensed third-party dock) for cheap.


----------



## elrod-tom

I bought mine at an estate sale some 7+ years ago, and it's only in the last year that I've finally got it restored and up and going.  You'll want someone to replace the rectifier and the caps for sure.  Maybe that's the cause of the humming you're hearing...I never had humming, but lots of crackling.
   
  Craig at NOS Valves did my restores on both amps.  He does a nice job, but it's gonna cost a bit...worth it IMHO for sure.  The 500C is beautiful inside and out now...like new.  It was a family heirloom (first thing my F-I-L bought when he got his PhD at Berkely in the early 60's) of sorts, and when he saw and heard it I think he wished he'd kept it and restored it himself. 

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yup, it's an X-202-B. I haven't checked the other tubes - mostly 12AX7 - for vintage and provenance, but I suspect they're not going to be newer. The amp seems to have suffered a great deal more from idleness than overuse and so far the bottles don't seem the worse for wear.
> 
> ...


----------



## ardgedee

There's crackling on powerup and shutdown but I am attributing that to expansion and contraction. The thing puts out a lot of heat, and my basement office is cool to cold all year round. I kind of wish I'd gotten it last October and benefited from the space heater functionality.
   
  It's deserving of a restoration, if not a little hotrodding, but as long as it works as well as it does now, I'll defer. I was expecting the headphone jack would be underpowered, but it makes 600 ohm Sextetts sing sweeter than I'd ever heard them. All the same, there's an opportunity to insert an impedance switch ahead of the headphone jack, bridge the tone controls, upgrade the caps, retest the valves...
   
  There are so many upgrade-itis rabbit holes to fall into that it's more challenging to leave the amp alone for a while and just listen to it.


----------



## elrod-tom

The headphone jacks on these Fisher tube amps are a really pleasant surprise.  I also have a pair of Sextets (I bought them in 1982) that sound VERY good out of it.  Lately they are doing regular duty in my basement office rig out of a Schiit Asgard.  Gotta love ALL kinds of vintage gear.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> There's crackling on powerup and shutdown but I am attributing that to expansion and contraction. The thing puts out a lot of heat, and my basement office is cool to cold all year round. I kind of wish I'd gotten it last October and benefited from the space heater functionality.
> 
> It's deserving of a restoration, if not a little hotrodding, but as long as it works as well as it does now, I'll defer. I was expecting the headphone jack would be underpowered, but it makes 600 ohm Sextetts sing sweeter than I'd ever heard them. All the same, there's an opportunity to insert an impedance switch ahead of the headphone jack, bridge the tone controls, upgrade the caps, retest the valves...
> 
> There are so many upgrade-itis rabbit holes to fall into that it's more challenging to leave the amp alone for a while and just listen to it.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The Fisher in its new home, perched atop a 70s-era Realistic tuner I haven't had time to plug in yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the glowingest tubes I've seen. The 7591s are original, with THE FISHER stamped on the bases. It'd be interesting to know who the OEM was.


 

  
  Argedee, Very nice Fisher amp you have there. Just need some brass dress caps for the knobs to make it shine brightly.
  From time to time I see these (new manufacture brass caps) on ebay. Or the occasional used Fisher knob set as well.
   
  I've read that the Fisher branded 7591s were made by Westinghouse. It is also possible that they may have sourced them
  from others as well. RCA, Sylvania, GE and others also produced the 7591 tubes in that time period.
  As a historical sidenote, RCA, GE and Westinghouse were all in the same corporate boat until 1930 when antitrust laws broke up their monopoly.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


livewire said:


> Argedee, Very nice Fisher amp you have there. Just need some brass dress caps for the knobs to make it shine brightly.
> From time to time I see these (new manufacture brass caps) on ebay. Or the occasional used Fisher knob set as well.
> 
> I've read that the Fisher branded 7591s were made by Westinghouse. It is also possible that they may have sourced them
> ...


 

 Thanks for the lead. I owe the amp a thorough washing-down (it can boil its own water, hey!), but I'm going to hold off fixing the lights, decorations, etc. until I decide its fate.
   
  When buying the amp, I chatted with the tech about where the tubes might've been sourced from, and he and an associate (both of whom are of a respectable age at which they would have also serviced these amps when they were new) looked at each other and laughed and said whichever vendor bid lowest for the contract provided them. Fisher- or Scott-branded tubes were as likely manufactured by them as mice and keyboards are manufactured by Apple (and I'll note here: That's not meant as an insult to any of these companies) - the branding company provides the specs and design requirements, other manufacturers compete to fulfill them. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> *You'll want someone to replace the rectifier and the caps for sure.*  Maybe that's the cause of the humming you're hearing...


 

 Yup! With these 30 to 50 year old relics that is a given. I wouldnt use it much until then.
  The old electrolytic caps dry up and things begin to hum and hiss and buzz.
  The rectifiers from that era are a liability as well.
  Purge that nasty old stuff, test & replace all tubes and resistors, and you rig should purr like new.
  Remember if one of those old caps or rectifiers opens up things might stop working.
  If they become shorted, out comes the "magic smoke". Not good!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I tell you what, fellas, the Pioneer SX-1250 has pretty much turned my audio world on its ear. LPs and reel tapes sounded so awesome on it that I felt I had to bring my AVA DAC up to the attic so I could improve digital playback in this rig. That was a huge mistake, in that now I need to buy another one. No way can I live without the AVA in the vintage rig, This rig now sounds so good it's just SICK. I simply can't believe what the SX-1250 is capable of. It's driving $2500/pair loudspeakers from a $2K DAC, and it is delivering the whole enchilada, absolutely no doubt. I just got done playing the new Alison Krauss record on it for the 4th time in that last 3 days, and I cannot get enough.


 

 So, you're saying that it sounds much better than the Marantz 2240 you just sold me?


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> So, you're saying that it sounds much better than the Marantz 2240 you just sold me?


 


 A Marantz 2240 aint that high up on the food chain.
  The Pioneer 1250 definitely trumps it.


----------



## Skylab

headphoneaddict said:


> So, you're saying that it sounds much better than the Marantz 2240 you just sold me?


Yeah, sorry pal. I kept the good stuff for meesef


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> So, you're saying that it sounds much better than the Marantz 2240 you just sold me?


 


  Larry the 1250 is a 950 list receiver in the 70's the 2240 was in the 300.00 range big difference even with the Pioneer 980 I own over the 2220B I sold and that was closer to the 300.00 range the SX650 trounced my Marantz 2220B and both the same list price. When Marantz was sold to Superscope and the production went to Japan it was an OEM making the Marantz line. I find the Pioneer the best out of the three I owned or own now. Sansui has great tuners and I will say I heard a 2270 which sounded good but I bought the 980 that day and had a choice of either.


----------



## Skylab

Pretty sure Larry was kidding around, fellas


----------



## scompton

I received 2 low impedance headphones yesterday, an XB500 that I bought for the pads and HD595 that was too cheap to pass up just for trying them out.  Boy does the Kyocera hiss with them.  The impedance mismatch really pumps up the bass on the HD595 without masking the mids.  They sound pretty good.  I don't think anything can make the XB500 sound good.  It was over priced at $20.


----------



## wualta

With modern 'phones you may very well get residual hiss (the Kyocera adds some when you switch in the EQ section, for example), which is why I always recommend an inline pad to crank the sensitivity back to 1982 levels.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Pretty sure Larry was kidding around, fellas


 

 Yup!


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta said:


> With modern 'phones you may very well get residual hiss (the Kyocera adds some when you switch in the EQ section, for example), which is why I always recommend an inline pad to crank the sensitivity back to 1982 levels.




i notice the hiss is only bad if you have really sensitive headphones and it's your source. i have a pair of pretty senstive akg 240s that are 91db@1mw and i don't don't notice a hiss on either my sansui 5000x or sansui au-d7 amps at comfortable listening levels. even my modded tehcnics sb-2845 floor speakers with some pioneer FB drivers at 92db@1w i don't notice any background noise untill i hit 12 o'clock. and at 12 o'clock tho on speakers or headphones both my speakers/headphones and ears will be blown if i cranked it that high. i never go pass 9 o'clock(or 2 on my sansui au-d7)

i don't know how the kyocera amp is or never really heard of it so i can't say. there are amps from the 70's and 80's that are very quiet and some that are not. hissing tho can be a big problem if you decide to make you headphones balanced and use the speaker outputs to power them but that depends of course on the amp and source.


----------



## scompton

The headphones I heard the hiss with are 112dB@1V and 104dB@1mW.  They're both really too sensitive to play out of any of my vintage amps, or for that matter, any headphone amp I've ever owned.


----------



## Frank I

My Denon D700 does not hiss on either of my three vintage receivers. They all play both my HE6 and the Denon D7000 with no hiss


----------



## wualta

If you know how to build a -10 or -20dB pad, hiss shouldn't be a problem, and there's no downside, as long as the resistor network isn't inductive, or some crazy thing. Otherwise just get an inexpensive inline volume control to test the concept.


----------



## scompton

Building a pad isn't a problem.  I don't really need one though because the headphones I normally listen too, I don't hear hiss even at full volume.  I'll never listen to the Sony again and the HD595 will be never be used out of my vintage amps.  I probably only listen to it with my iPod when I want to use a full sized headphone.  Currently I use a DT931 for that, but the HD595 is much easier to drive.


----------



## wualta

All I wanted to do was remind folks that while some amps may or may not show audible hiss at full gain (which noise won't be helped by a pad), it's the *residual* hiss, the kind that doesn't go away when you turn the volume all the way _down_, that might show up with modern headphones. As Scompton says, if all the headphones you plug into the amp are orthos, or ones of similar sensitivity, the problem will never come up.


----------



## scompton

That's the type of hiss that the Kyocera has.  It's there with the volume at 0.


----------



## singh

I seriously envy you guys !! here in india vintages are hard to come by !!  Yesterday bought 2 vintages ...one is great with sound but Needs some serious servicing.
   
  I need vintages for HE6 ,( will also get bookshelves but not now )
   
  i keep checking ebay for good deals though . shipping from US/UK for these is 200 +    .( and very few ship here )
   
  another thing .. how is the technics sa202  ( its 30 W ) .
   
  also is the nad 3020a good enough to be compared to the great  vintages . ( am talking about the classic 3020a )


----------



## scompton

I had an NAD 3155 that was very nice.  Unfortunately, I took it to a meet and when I got home the right channel was dead.


----------



## scottiebabie

just wanna remind u guys to check your vintage amps for both Bias current & DC offset as either can be the cause of distortion &or other issues. i did a quick check with DMM at speaker taps & found a couple of amps with DC offset >100mv (factory spec is +-5mv). did some adjusting & even tried a Bias setting of 50mv-90mv (factory spec +-20mv) which i found sounds better. but im also very diligent in montoring overbiasing overheat issues.
   
  so far so good as i think vintage amps are over designed over spec'd to begin  with. im gonna keep this mod if things progress as it seems to. something to play with for the folks thats into a bit of mods.


----------



## wualta

Checking for DC offset is an excellent suggestion, and anyone with a decent voltmeter can do it. There's a whole thread on AudioKarma devoted to this one check of an amp's health.


----------



## scottiebabie

yup its ridiculously easy to check & not too far off to adjust either provided one doesnt mistake the Bias current pot for DC. just download a service manual (usually free too) & the adjustment pots should be well detailed. unlike Bias which maybe different for different make & models, DC offset should be as close to zero as possible - for all amps regardless.
   
  just make sure the amp's warmed up for 5-10mins before sticking the test leads into the speaker taps. O & it doesnt matter if the readings + or - as its the number thats significant. the - polarity's just means the test leads connections reversed.


----------



## Skylab

It's a very good thing to own a multimeter.  I use mine most often to check cable continuity.


----------



## scottiebabie

just a brief update for my fellow gearheads to monitor heat when playing with Bias current. my JVC JR-S300 got nasty hot in short order once i set it at 25mv (factory spec'd 10mv) so i did some playing & listening to finally settle on a setting of 15mv. unit runs not much warmer than 10mv but sonics got discernibly better.
   
  things improved most with the Sansui AU-517 with ori readings of 14+mv L & 16+mv R (factory spec'd 20mv). i did some listening at 50mv though heat didnt seem an issue & bass got tighter & quicker with a much fuller detailed sound, there was a graininess that bothered me. did some more adjusting & found that factory spec of 20mv was the best compro sonics to my ears. didnt seem to make much of a big diff with the hifiman orthos but a very significant improvement with the HD650. better deeper tighter fuller bass with increased detailed highs & in increase forwardness in mids. i used to think this Sui drove the Senns the worst of all my amps - that is no longer true.
   
  In alot of cases, increasing the Bias current may yield results, such as improved speed, better coherence, increased spatial information and usually a better, clearer bass and less distortion, both static (THD, IM) and especially dynamic (TIM, TID, SID, etc). However, it will also cause the output stage to produce more heat, so one must be careful to monitor this. so if any of yous find the your vintage amp's underperforming, its very worthwhile to get your DMM out of mothballs & put it to good use. FWIW i use alligator clips extension cable to hookup the DMM to the amps test leads so i can adjust on the fly & more importantly, not poke the leads in undesirable pls & short out the amp or worst electrocute myself!!! LOL - remember ITS A LIVE AMP SO SAFETY FIRST!


----------



## RexAeterna

good advice scott. i have a multi-meter but never used it for my amps since everytime i made a score i just got really busy and was not able to give my amps full testing at the time of my purchases so i always had a good bud of mine and local tech that been working on electronics for over 30 years to give my amps a check-up and test run. also he seemed always happy when he see me bring in some vintage gear especially Sansui gear so i let him get the honors of the first listen while i'm busy working or helping friends with house improvements.

 also i opened up my options for my sansui amp on craigslist for trade. i'm considering trades of either some vintage planer magnetic headphones,akg 501, akg 601's or akg 340 electrodynamics. for some reason i'm really curious about these and i also love akg. i'm a boring person  so i need something more natural sounding compared to my akg 240's.


----------



## scottiebabie

im not sure about K501/601s being natural sounding as to my ears, they seem pretty thin at the bottom but the K340 or a good vintage yami or fostex ortho will be veeeeerrrrry interesting. mod'd & damp'd correctly, they def have da goodstuff plus your vintage amps will have more than enuff juice to drive them. indeed ive been seriously pondering selling/trading my hifiman HE5LE for a pair of smeggy Thunderpants
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!
   
  glad your 'Sui amps gettin mucho attention but im not sure its a goodthang or .....!? there goes my chances of scoring a 'cheap' AU-919/9x00! heh!
   
  on the plus, i think i can reduce my tri-stack 'headamp' station to only one - the 'Sui AU517. after the recent Bias & DC adjustment, its def my fav for all of my cans. the hd650 sounds so crazy good that im gonna order some cryo cu cable to diy a recable. time to clear out some inventory just in time for spring cleaning. dang im gonna make the missus happy....until i bring more stuff home! hehe


----------



## Skylab

Well, I did the unthinkable...I bought an SX-1980. I just couldn't help it. Couldn't stop wondering of it's worth all the fuss. I guess I will find out. I was encouraged by being able to find one that has been recapped and fully serviced, at a somewhat reasonable price. I am having to have it shipped, so we will see what that brings...hoping for the best.

But it means I have to sell my Sansui 9090. Pity since I just had it serviced and it now sounds clean as a whistle. But the 1980 kept taunting me...


----------



## scottiebabie

skylab....buddy im IMPRESSED! u actually went out & did it!!! to be honest, the 1980 mite not surpass your 1250 sonically but its worth having just for the pride of ownership if nothing else. its a true monsta in the real sense of the word & such a beast will never again be built. u are not only owning a monsta amp but a slice of of receiver history.
   
  theres no other peak to climb with such a receiver - well theres still the Marantz 2600, Technics SA1000 & Sansui G33000 but thats well about it (pls feel free to chime in if i left out any others). good for u & congrats!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> skylab....buddy im IMPRESSED! u actually went out & did it!!! to be honest, the 1980 mite not surpass your 1250 sonically but its worth having just for the pride of ownership if nothing else. its a true monsta in the real sense of the word & such a beast will never again be built. u are not only owning a monsta amp but a slice of of receiver history.
> 
> theres no other peak to climb with such a receiver - well theres still the Marantz 2600, Technics SA1000 & Sansui G33000 but thats well about it (pls feel free to chime in if i left out any others). good for u & congrats!


 

 Yeah I am actually not expecting it to surpass the SX-1250 - everything I have read leads me to believe the 1250 is a little better sonically.  And that's cool - I actually kind of hope it IS better.  But it will be fun to compare.
   
  And man I NEED to be done buying vintage receivers   These things are not like tubes where I can just go stick another in the closet!  When one comes in, another HAS to go out.  I truly have been loving listening to music in my vintage rig from the SX-1250 - not just as a novelty, either, but as a serious hi-fi.  We will see how the SX-1980 competes!


----------



## singh

@SKYLAB,  how much for the 1980 ?
  and congrats !! i ave been reading about sansui an pioneer receivers in last few weeks and yeah the G22000/33000 and the sx-1980 are leading the pack. 
   
  i wish there was a piece for sale here in india , shipping costs $600 for those. ( i inquired  )
   
  BTW  found a Sansui au-999 here in india ...i will be posting impressions soon .


----------



## scottiebabie

a minty fully reburb 1980....im thinking $1.6-$2k is fair market value. ofcos anything substantial under would constitute a 'snag' but goodluck finding lil ol ladies with no net access 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. if not i can give u an intro to my granny who just so happens to have a bridge somewhere in brooklyn for sale.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. FYI theres been 1980s up&gone at the upay site for $3k so take it for what thats worth.
   
  Rob since ya well nigh evolved into a full card carrier vintage gearhead, me thinks only TOTL best-0f-da-best rare-0f-da-rare gear will only do so i think u can start some spring cleaning. i seriously dont see the need for a mere 'Sui 9090 nor a puny Marantz 2275 in your case as it'll only be gathering dust while u freck around with ya King Pioneers. by all means blow em out & start collecting the rest of the Monstas.
   
  i think u just gain membership into a very exclusive club where the motto as slogan'd by the US Navy....Its Not A Job Its An Adventure!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  ps:we need pics both internal & ex of the beast plus the usual sonic comparo ofcos so pls dont disappoint the rest of us who can only watch & drool


----------



## Skylab

The SX-1980 was $1,900 shipped.  Given that it was already refurbed to the tube of $650 (with receipt for the work provided with the unit), I felt this was a decent deal.  Not a "score" of a deal, but far from overpaying, IMO, based on what I have seen. Interestingly, the SX-1980 was $1,295 list when new in the 70's. That equates to over $8,000 today!
 
Yeah the 9090 will be listed FS (here and AudioKarma first, then AidioGone and EBay) as soon as the 1980 arrives and I know all is well with it.  The Marantz is staying though - it's enough smaller than the 9090 and the bi Pioneers that it fits into my office rack nice and easy, so there it will stay.


----------



## scottiebabie

i would say thats a more than decent buy. the full refurb would mean its gonna be hangin & singin for another 40yrs!
   
  heres some food for thought for the office rig. hows a "Sui duo of AU/TU-717 or better yet, AU/TU-919 if the pockets deep enuff. i still think your missing out on teh 'Sui magic if u havent tried out this separates combo as to me, its incorporates the best of the 'Sui old school charm with newer low THD clarity. i think its gonna be substantially 'better' than any 22xx marantzs both amp & tuner side while still having a small footprint.
   
  then ya all set to wait & pounce on a Marantz 2500/2600 at the best possible score - if that ever exists ofcos.


----------



## 5aces

Here is the 1977 Marantz Model 2285 that I use as a preamp and tuner.

I do have the matching wood case but like the receiver 'naked'.


----------



## 5aces

Here is my 1979 Pioneer M-22 monoblock that I use to run a Stax transformer or a pair of Klipsch speakers.



Mint Sansui AU 20000,my favorite 1978 integrated amplifier.
Moving some gear around today so got them on the table for a picture.
All of it sounds mystical.


----------



## Skylab

Wow - that is some REALLY nice stuff there, 5aces!


----------



## musicman59

Those are  a pair of jewels!!


----------



## scottiebabie

dang 5Aces....bro thems be da goodstuff! love the AU-11000 & the M22 even more. both are rare as shiaaat & even better, they look mint. i hear the M22 sounds as good if not better than the Firstwatt F1!


----------



## ardgedee

That Pioneer amp is some beautiful audio sculpture. I didn't know they made such things. The power switch looks uncomfortably close to the heatsink array, though.


----------



## cifani090

Very nice Sansui AU 20000, never loved a Sansui that much. I am rethinking my Kenwood 9000gx now. What would the going price of the AU 2000 be?


----------



## Skylab

An AU20000 is going to run close to $2K.


----------



## 5aces

"Of all the vintage Sansui amps, the AU-11000 (or AU-20000) are probably the best value. 

The 20000 is very valuable but for some reason, finding one where the meters work (and they cannot be replaced) is like finding the holy grail...

What also makes them so valuable (= expensive..) is that they are very rugged, extremely well made, well designed amps that produce good clean power with very good "head room"

Also, there is almost no 'plastic'... everything is metal, including the machined aluminum knobs. 

Pot slide contacts and switch contact surfaces are silver (not ceramic or graphite) and because of the massive power transformers, they run extremely cool.

Other than certain weird switches, faceplates, knobs, (and the AU-20000 vue meters...), almost all of the circuitry parts can be serviced, repaired, or replaced.

Sansui included a common parts list with the units allowing techs to cross reference the caps, resistors, transistors, etc. to the same coding as those items produced in the US. 

That allows a competent technician to easily service the units even to this day."

Fully restored (not 'repaired') takes you into the $1,500++ territory.

For some,not worth the hassle or $$$,except for emotional value if you lusted after one when you were a kid.(my story)

Sansui made some real diamonds,this is one of them.


----------



## sluker

subscribed


----------



## Zida

I hate you. I've literally had dreams where I found an M-22 for sale. How much do those even go for?


----------



## singh

^^ lol i had dream that i bought a au20000 
  these are real gems i tell you.
   
  Great stuff there 5aces. I would love to won a G33000/ AU20000 some day.


----------



## scottiebabie

whooopiessss aces dont know why but the AU11000 kept sticking in my brain & i took your AU20000 to be one - my bad as theres a big difference! AU22000 is THE TOTL Biggasss'd Intergrated that Sansui ever made! 
   
  for sure Sansui made quite a few gems esp in Intergrateds & inspite of AU9500/9900/11000/22000 goodness, its still my 2cents that a AU/TU717 combo is THE VALUE of the day, atleast for Sansui. one can still pickup a set for $300ish & i'd offer a challenge to anyone to find similar sonics for the money, vintage semi vintage modern or otherwise. plus the TU717s is amongst the best tuners ever eclipsing even modern magnum dynalabs!
   
  grab a set folks, while units still available & prices are sane. no regrets fo sho!!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> whooopiessss aces dont know why but the AU11000 kept sticking in my brain & i took your AU20000 to be one - my bad as theres a big difference! AU22000 is THE TOTL Biggasss'd Intergrated that Sansui ever made!
> 
> for sure Sansui made quite a few gems esp in Intergrateds & inspite of AU9500/9900/11000/22000 goodness, its still my 2cents that a AU/TU717 combo is THE VALUE of the day, atleast for Sansui. one can still pickup a set for $300ish & i'd offer a challenge to anyone to find similar sonics for the money, vintage semi vintage modern or otherwise. plus the TU717s is amongst the best tuners ever eclipsing even modern magnum dynalabs!
> 
> grab a set folks, while units still available & prices are sane. no regrets fo sho!!!


 

 I took a look at the AU11000 yesterday and how could he even recommend me that. I'll spend a little extra for the AU22000, because there is nothing else like it.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Here is my 1979 Pioneer M-22 monoblock that I use to run a Stax transformer or a pair of Klipsch speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Those are very impressive pieces of audio equipment. I really love the sansui. You must be pleased with the way it sounds.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I took a look at the AU11000 yesterday and how could he even recommend me that. I'll spend a little extra for the AU22000, because there is nothing else like it.


 

 i hear ya bro. much as i love Sansui & as hardcore card carrying 'Suihead as any, i'd get a Accuphase E-202 1st over most any IA. discounting vintage collectable exclusivity, i'd safely say the E202 is one of the best ever SS IA ever made if sonics were thrown into the equation.


----------



## 5aces

Some dry internet banter regarding Sansui:

SANSUI IS ADDICTIVE AND MAY RUIN YOUR FINANCIAL HEALTH

"I guess they don't call them the McIntosh of Japan for nothing. I better keep all my Sansui stuff.

Wait a minute. I always thought that Luxman was the McIntosh of Japan... and Accuphase. Now I'm confused.

I always thought that McIntosh was the gringo Accuphase".

Not to derail this thread into vintage speakers but currently have the AU 20000 paired with these 1980 JBL L112's:



Meters bouncing 40 dB to the music:


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Some dry internet banter regarding Sansui:
> 
> SANSUI IS ADDICTIVE AND MAY RUIN YOUR FINANCIAL HEALTH
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice meters. Im not sure why we haven't started a vintage speaker forum, but now we have


----------



## singh

THe AU-X1111 mos is also a competitor for the best sansui integrated. au22000 and aux1111


----------



## Maverickmonk

Alright, This is the largest source of vintage amp information i've found on the net so far. I'm getting ready to go yardsale hunting/fleamarketing for a receiver to power my speakers. Here's the kicker, they're a pair of technica SB-2760's, which have a max rms power of 200w each into 8 ohms. I'm guessing I need about 50wpc to power them decently? What receivers should I be looking for with that kind of juice? My budget is <$100, since over that I could buy a  Dayton Audio T-amp, or build my own dual mono chip-amp with dual power supplies.
   
  Any suggestions? My headphones are currently a pair of Grado's, and I don't plan on moving too far up the food-chain in the near future (maybe a D2000 for classical, but nothing mid/hi-fi yet), so the headphone out doesn't have to be that beastly. I'm mostly in it to power the huge floorstanding speakers in my room.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Alright, This is the largest source of vintage amp information i've found on the net so far. I'm getting ready to go yardsale hunting/fleamarketing for a receiver to power my speakers. Here's the kicker, they're a pair of technica SB-2760's, which have a max rms power of 200w each into 8 ohms. I'm guessing I need about 50wpc to power them decently? What receivers should I be looking for with that kind of juice? My budget is <$100, since over that I could buy a  Dayton Audio T-amp, or build my own dual mono chip-amp with dual power supplies.
> 
> Any suggestions? My headphones are currently a pair of Grado's, and I don't plan on moving too far up the food-chain in the near future (maybe a D2000 for classical, but nothing mid/hi-fi yet), so the headphone out doesn't have to be that beastly. I'm mostly in it to power the huge floorstanding speakers in my room.


 

 If you think this is a large source, you need to check out audiokarma.org.  If you're planning on listening to your Grados out of a vintage amp, I'd try to audition it first.  When I go to Goodwill, I take my iPod with a lineout dock with RCA termination and my headphones.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Will do! I'm far more concerned about the speakers though. I'm honestly content with the headphone out of the uDAC for now. Eventually I'd build a starving student or pimeta, but I was just given this pair of speakers yesterday (A guy at my church was throwing them out) and now I'm more focused on getting them hooked up.


----------



## scompton

As I posted in your other thread, speakers are forbidden in the house by my wife.  I've been tempted a few times on eBay for local pickup, but didn't give in because I knew my wife would have a fit.  And there's no place for a man cave in our little house from the 30s.
   
  Edit:  audiokarma.org has a speaker forum with 42,000 threads.  I figured they did but I've never seen it since I never search for speakers.


----------



## RexAeterna

don't worry about wattage rating on the speakers. they probably can only with stand 200w for less then a second before melting the voice coils. depending on room size and sensitivity of the speaker i say 20-35wpc is more then fine to be honest especially if your going vintage in the receiver/amp market. even 10w tube amps be great. it's how the amp handles the impedance dips and spikes what counts the most. headphones it depends. lot of different receivers/amps have different topology design and offer different sound sometimes so it depends. most amps depending on the dropping resistor will tell you how high of impedance the headphone out can provide so reading the schematics is how you find that out. if the resistor value is too low you can always change it since the power from headphone socket is always tied into the speaker outputs and share the same power amp section. that's why if someone asks how the headphones will sound out the speaker outputs i tell them plug it in the headphone socket and done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Alright, This is the largest source of vintage amp information i've found on the net so far. I'm getting ready to go yardsale hunting/fleamarketing for a receiver to power my speakers. Here's the kicker, they're a pair of technica SB-2760's, which have a max rms power of 200w each into 8 ohms. I'm guessing I need about 50wpc to power them decently? What receivers should I be looking for with that kind of juice? My budget is <$100, since over that I could buy a  Dayton Audio T-amp, or build my own dual mono chip-amp with dual power supplies.
> 
> Any suggestions? My headphones are currently a pair of Grado's, and I don't plan on moving too far up the food-chain in the near future (maybe a D2000 for classical, but nothing mid/hi-fi yet), so the headphone out doesn't have to be that beastly. I'm mostly in it to power the huge floorstanding speakers in my room.


----------



## elrod-tom

No doubt about it...this is my new favorite thread.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Many thanks! I'm actually headed over this afternoon to take a look at a Marantz 2245. I'm pumped!


----------



## ardgedee

There aren't a lot of headphones that are going to benefit from an amplifier's speaker taps. Especially massive, muscular, he-man amps like some of the receivers we're talking about here. Like RexAeterna says, ultimately some receivers do a better job of the headphone section than others, but on amps like that you can't necessarily compensate for it by running the phones off the speaker taps. Not without some kind of junction box to incorporate a resistor line and maybe a second volume pot. At that point you might want to ask yourself what you signed up for. (Once, years ago when I was reckless-er than now, I destroyed a perfectly good NAD receiver by plugging my Grado SR-60s into the speaker taps and bridging the channel grounds. Another reason to be wary.)
   
  The reason why some headphones (most notoriously the HiFiMAN HE-series and the AKG K-1000) benefit from the speaker taps is because they've got moderate impedance and are ridiculously inefficient. Headphones with low-medium impedance and higher efficiency -- which describes almost all of the headphones that head-fiers like -- aren't going to improve overall when there's a tower of power behind 'em; there might be more headroom and clarity, but possibly also a lot of noise and a sound level that's borderline too loud when the volume knob's barely above the lowest-possible position. Amp designers can be assumed to know what they're doing, and when the hobbyist community finds better ways to do 'em, it's because we know now what the designers didn't know then, or because we have things they didn't have (such as big ol' earspeakers), or because we dare to do borderline warranty-violating things to equipment that's long out of warranty, but in a reasonably well-informed manner.
   
  Headphones (when they're on your head) need milliwatts to achieve sound pressure levels that speakers need whole watts for.


----------



## leveller1642

Not an amp, but I am really impressed with the sound coming from the headphone output of a Marantz CD-80 CD player. Nice and airy. A Dacmagic sounds brash in comparison. My living situation has changed and I'm now running this CD player, a Onkyo Integra pre amp ,a Yamaha M45 power amp and a pair of Mordaunt-Short bookshelf speakers. I'd like to turn it up, but don't want to upset the neighbours- as i play it now, the power meters barely move.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Just picked up a Marantz 2245 to hook up to my technics speakers. The Grado's sound beautiful through the headphone out too. Shee needs some TLC (Phono rca jacks arn't attatched right anymore, volume pot crackles) but I'm loving the sound. Sounds nice and tube-like. Very very smooth. The guy I bought it from threw in a Dual 1218 turntable too! Marantz receiver and a turntable for 75 bucks? I think it's been a good day.


----------



## Skylab

That is a STEAL, even with a few warts.  Congrats.  I personally love the sound of the Marantz 22xx series.


----------



## cifani090

Where are you located, over here in the D, that is hard to come buy with all the audio wanabees over here


----------



## Maverickmonk

I'm in Pa, and just happened to get lucky. He was planning on starting from scratch, selling off most of his speakers, a few reel-reel machines (a pioneer and a teak), and some denon receivers and other stuff. Great guy to talk to as well.
   
  Now i've got a turntable to work on too...it doesn't stop! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Between the uDAC, the Marantz, free speakers, and the Grados, I've only spent about 250 on my setup though, and that makes me pretty happy.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> I'm in Pa, and just happened to get lucky. He was planning on starting from scratch, selling off most of his speakers, a few reel-reel machines (a pioneer and a teak), and some denon receivers and other stuff. Great guy to talk to as well.
> 
> Now i've got a turntable to work on too...it doesn't stop!
> 
> ...


 

 If you dont mind me asking, what did you pay for those Pioneer speakers? Did you find them on craigslist? I've had a few people selling off vintage equipment around here ( i bought a Kenwood 9000gx off of one,need to get some pictures up here) and most of them are jerkes and try to sell it for more that what it is worth. They also tell me tubes are not good, and are a gimic, and bla bla bla. I gave them an example of the Fisher X-1000 and how its a good tube intergrated amp, than he gives me an example of the badly made Fisher speakers. Im dont with that guy


----------



## Maverickmonk

They're actually technics, which I thought was part of panasonic. I got them for free from a family friend who was throwing them out, since he now uses a pair of smaller bookshelf speakers or his surround system.
   
  Speaking of bad fisher speakers, I have a pair of those in my basement from my dad's old fisher sound system. Huge 15" woofers, and I'm assuming the bass is bloated about as much as the woofers, but they're huge and I don't feel like carrying them up to my room to A/B with my technics...actually...that sounds kind of fun now that you mention it...
   
  The technics arn't really anything special, but they sound pretty good to my ears. More importantly: for free, they sound absolutely amazing. Bad news: With ported 12" woofers, my parents are already threatening to make me live in the basement. I'd have more room for proper placement that way though!


----------



## Skylab

Technics was indeed a brand name of Panasonic.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Bad news: With ported 12" woofers, my parents are already threatening to make me live in the basement. I'd have more room for proper placement that way though!


 
  That's why I stick to headphones.  If its not you parents, it your roommates.  If its not you roommates, its you neighbors.  If its not your neighbors, its your wife...
   
  I want to move to the middle of nowhere and make an infinite baffle setup with rear wave going outside and make half the walk-out basement a giant horn for the sub.  Dreams...


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> whooopiessss aces dont know why but the AU11000 kept sticking in my brain & i took your AU20000 to be one - my bad as theres a big difference! AU22000 is THE TOTL Biggasss'd Intergrated that Sansui ever made!
> 
> for sure Sansui made quite a few gems esp in Intergrateds & inspite of AU9500/9900/11000/22000 goodness, its still my 2cents that a AU/TU717 combo is THE VALUE of the day, atleast for Sansui. one can still pickup a set for $300ish & i'd offer a challenge to anyone to find similar sonics for the money, vintage semi vintage modern or otherwise. plus the TU717s is amongst the best tuners ever eclipsing even modern magnum dynalabs!
> 
> grab a set folks, while units still available & prices are sane. no regrets fo sho!!!


 

 So glad you posted this... I bought an AU-717 a couple of days ago for $200.  I feel better about my purchase now!  Still waiting for it but can you tell me anything about the headphone out?  As powerful as some of these other 70's amps / receivers seem to be?  I plan to use an HE-6 with it but if the head-out isn't sufficient, I will go off the speaker taps.


----------



## RexAeterna

technics do make good speakers. they are very underlooked even for just house party speakers. i found a pair of vintage technics sb-2845 for 16 bucks but one of the tweeters were dead so i swapped them from another laying around speakers i had and was a perfect match. for 16 bucks tho they had impressive soundstage and very good heavy hitting bass when cranking up the bass knob for fun. i also have a pair of discontinued(not vintage) technics sb-t200's floor towers i found for 75 bucks and i bi-amped them once for fun. for dual 5.5'' woofers they had crazy powerful bass perfect for HT and when you want to knock your chest out. they put to shame some 15'' woofers i heard before. i loved the silk dome tweeter it used too. was very pleasing to the ear.if you can also find the bigger brother sb-t300's are wonderful and can be found cheap compared to other brands and it uses a nice ribbion tweeter as well as a silk dome tweeter.

 you also got the famous technics sb-6000/7000a's people rave about.technics also was one few who made one of the highest end and heaviest speaker of close to 400lbs per speaker at one time. i think they went for 50,000 a piece. 
  
  Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> They're actually technics, which I thought was part of panasonic. I got them for free from a family friend who was throwing them out, since he now uses a pair of smaller bookshelf speakers or his surround system.
> 
> Speaking of bad fisher speakers, I have a pair of those in my basement from my dad's old fisher sound system. Huge 15" woofers, and I'm assuming the bass is bloated about as much as the woofers, but they're huge and I don't feel like carrying them up to my room to A/B with my technics...actually...that sounds kind of fun now that you mention it...
> 
> The technics arn't really anything special, but they sound pretty good to my ears. More importantly: for free, they sound absolutely amazing. Bad news: With ported 12" woofers, my parents are already threatening to make me live in the basement. I'd have more room for proper placement that way though!


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> So glad you posted this... I bought an AU-717 a couple of days ago for $200.  I feel better about my purchase now!  Still waiting for it but can you tell me anything about the headphone out?  As powerful as some of these other 70's amps / receivers seem to be?  I plan to use an HE-6 with it but if the head-out isn't sufficient, I will go off the speaker taps.


 

 dude welcome to the X17 club. i think u'll love the amp as its built like a tank, weighs like 1/2 a brick outhous & sings like a very musical bee! if Luxman & Accuphase are the Japanese Mac, then the top 'Sui x17/x19s are the Japanese Krell. open her up & u'll find 45lbs of true dual mono construction with 2 of everything - dual sealed bigass trafos, dual amp section with individual driver boards, dual sets of output transistors on separate 1/4thick alu cooling fins, etc etc. *the Pre-Power amp can be used independently & can either be direct or cap coupled plus 6 sets of inputs with both MM & MC phono stages.*.
   
  besides the usual suspects of ensuring full function operationality, it'll prolly need a full contact cleaner bath on all knobs & switches. i found the biggest difference to effect the sound to be Bias setting. the bass can be soft & round or quick & punchy, mids laidback or aggressively forward all 'tunable' depending on Bias. i've even had the Bias current at 3x factory spec with no heat issues & without external cooling fans - testament to its over design. FWIW the DC & Bias trimpots & test leads are darn easy to access & adjust.
   
  as far as power goes, the conservative 85w per of old school high current juice will power the hifiman orthos & your proacs with aplomb. to my ears, i find the speaker taps to provide the best sonics prolly due to a better impedance match (but waddaikno) - headphone jacks run off the main outputs with 2x 220ohm resistors. u prolly wont find any more powerful 85watter baring multikilo exotica amps. i love my 517 (basically the same build spec as 717 with slightly less output) best of all the vintages i have & had.
   
  edit:FWIW i've done the some of the dumbest thangs to this amp like shorting the outputs (usually catastrophic) & the awesome protection circuitry prevented any damage. it even auto cut in when the DC offset was too high (>150mv) thus functioning as a 'service' reminder.
   
  incase anyone thinks its perfect, the springloaded binding posts sux the big 'un! perhaps a future recappin project so it'll keep singin for another 40yrs & i guess i coulda stole it from some poor ol lady although im not sure how much more of a score i can get as the black beast stands me a whole $50
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! otherwise im all outta complaints!


----------



## RexAeterna

scott your killing me man. all this hyping is gonna continue driving up prices lol. i found a sansui au-717 locally but for 300 bucks and needs cleaning and stuff. i found a g-9000 as well but owner want 800 bucks....i think i'm going to go into the kenwood domain and snatch myself a powerful eleven series receiver or onet of the famous integrated amps of kenwood since kenwood is another favorite of mine and still going for sane prices.things like pioneer,marantz and mcintosh is long out of my reach since they already reached borderline crazy prices. also i'm not big marantz or pioneer fan. i always did want a tube mcintosh but that's out of question for me budget wise unless i won the lottery.


----------



## scottiebabie

LMAO!!! REX bud i wish i have a warehouse of these black beauties so i can do more hypin & make a killin! hehe! seriously though im kinda flub'd & a tad surprised that theres no other gearhead in all headfi-dom thats got some listening time with these particular Suis. i can accept being branded a shrill if someone with a bit of rep 'disproves' my words - atleast then i know i've wooden ears!
   
  but dang mang, my 517 sounds sweeter, smoother & more organically better than anyother amp atleast with my gear. i know the boys at Audiokarma think the world of them but then no one there actually uses these as dedicated headamps though. i do know what my ears tells me but that dont mean i dont question them so folks whos heard them & uses them as headamps, pls stand up - its atad lonely being in a club of one!
   
  regardless, for now these amps are still affordable & more importantly, available so it shouldnt be too much of a task to buy em & try em. one can always blow em out (with very little if any loss IMO) if they dont float ya boat. for me, someone would have to pry em out of my cold dead hands before i let em go
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ps: pssssst REX u need a set of the Kenny 600 Trio! im sure u can pry a unit or 2 from the lil old widows out there in the Jeysey sticks. hehe!


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> dude welcome to the X17 club. i think u'll love the amp as its built like a tank, weighs like 1/2 a brick outhous & sings like a very musical bee! if Luxman & Accuphase are the Japanese Mac, then the top 'Sui x17/x19s are the Japanese Krell. open her up & u'll find 45lbs of true dual mono construction with 2 of everything - dual sealed bigass trafos, dual amp section with individual driver boards, dual sets of output transistors on separate 1/4thick alu cooling fins, etc etc. *the Pre-Power amp can be used independently & can either be direct or cap coupled plus 6 sets of inputs with both MM & MC phono stages.*.
> 
> besides the usual suspects of ensuring full function operationality, it'll prolly need a full contact cleaner bath on all knobs & switches. i found the biggest difference to effect the sound to be Bias setting. the bass can be soft & round or quick & punchy, mids laidback or aggressively forward all 'tunable' depending on Bias. i've even had the Bias current at 3x factory spec with no heat issues & without external cooling fans - testament to its over design. FWIW the DC & Bias trimpots & test leads are darn easy to access & adjust.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks scottie.  You got me pumped now.  Glad to know it's a great speaker amp too.  If these things are as great as you say, and I am sure they are, they are a really good deal and there's a lot of them available right now.  Looking for the tuner now....


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> scott your killing me man. all this hyping is gonna continue driving up prices lol. i found a sansui au-717 locally but for 300 bucks and needs cleaning and stuff. i found a g-9000 as well but owner want 800 bucks....i think i'm going to go into the kenwood domain and snatch myself a powerful eleven series receiver or onet of the famous integrated amps of kenwood since kenwood is another favorite of mine and still going for sane prices.things like pioneer,marantz and mcintosh is long out of my reach since they already reached borderline crazy prices. also i'm not big marantz or pioneer fan. i always did want a tube mcintosh but that's out of question for me budget wise unless i won the lottery.


 


  Thats a fishy deal too. The guy wuill only meet you in a public place which tells me something is wrong with it.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Thanks scottie.  You got me pumped now.  Glad to know it's a great speaker amp too.  If these things are as great as you say, and I am sure they are, they are a really good deal and there's a lot of them available right now.  Looking for the tuner now....


 
   
  no worries bud. however incase hype doesnt meets expectations, youre getting no refunds from me ya. LOL. i noticed u have a coupla very very nice tubie headamps from your siggy & while im not expecting equivalent performance (afterall the 717 is only a small fraction of what u paid for either the Cary or the WA & it is 30+yrs old to boot), im very interested your impressions & comparo btwn the 3of them. esp how the 717 synergies with the HD800 as its one the cans i do have aspirations of ownership.
   
  at the risk of sounding long winded, do remember to clean all contacts, switches & controls with a good contact cleaner with lube and adjust the DC offset & Bias to factory spec so we can atleast have a reasonable performing amp. otherwise, im looking forward to your impressions.
  
  btw the companion TU717 is an awesome tuner. heres some mods that brings it up a few notches.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> no worries bud. however incase hype doesnt meets expectations, youre getting no refunds from me ya. LOL. i noticed u have a coupla very very nice tubie headamps from your siggy & while im not expecting equivalent performance (afterall the 717 is only a small fraction of what u paid for either the Cary or the WA & it is 30+yrs old to boot), im very interested your impressions & comparo btwn the 3of them. esp how the 717 synergies with the HD800 as its one the cans i do have aspirations of ownership.
> 
> at the risk of sounding long winded, do remember to clean all contacts, switches & controls with a good contact cleaner with lube and adjust the DC offset & Bias to factory spec so we can atleast have a reasonable performing amp. otherwise, im looking forward to your impressions.
> 
> btw the companion TU717 is an awesome tuner. heres some mods that brings it up a few notches.


 

 Ha!  I won't hold you to anything!  I realize it may not live up to some of my other HP amps but I bought it for other reasons too - backup speaker amp, HE-6 alternative, etc. but also, like many in this thread I suspect, I am a child of the 70's when these things were in their hay day...  being in my early teens, I could only dream about some of these pieces.  So - for nostalgia reasons also.  And since every other amp I own is tube, I wanted a SS around.
   
  The amp has supposedly been cleaned and in 10/10 condition internally but we will see - it's due here tomorrow.  I do hear you though about cleaning / re-capping / bias adjustment, etc.  My fisher x-100-b is being restored this week by Paul Grzybek of TAD so I know how it goes with some of these old pieces.  I am not much of a DIY guy, but am slowly learning how to do some of the basics like bias adjustment and cap replacement.  I do own a multi-meter and soldering iron now!
   
  Thanks for all your good info and I'll let you know my impressions.


----------



## 5aces

Giving the JH-13's what they should have.

My old rugby coach said "hit 'em so hard the snot runs down their nose..."

I cannot turn the volume near half mast(1.0 watt @ -20dB),even though the details are crystal clear,the sound is like a UFC 129 front kick knockout from this 60 pound beast.

Exactly what I wanted,enough horsepower to spin you sideways and guaranteed to keep you smiling.(.5 watts @ -25 dB)

Lord knows I tried enough portable gear but this amplifier just keeps me coming back,the little Pico Slim obviously trampled into the dirt.

This amplifier is a Masterpiece as is the Pioneer M-22,more on that one later...for now,simply wonderful sound.

I really enjoy the Ronnie Wood (Stones) show,Absolute Classic Rock via the internet on Icecast.


----------



## Skylab

Wow that is an absolute stunner. Congrats man!!!


----------



## Skylab

I received my own little bundle of joy today...all 80 pounds of it...
   


   
  Sounding pretty good so far!


----------



## 5aces

Everyone in this thread will be running out of room soon,I use a table instead of a rack,the Sansui is 18 inches wide and 16 deep.

Your minty Receiver looks even larger.

Great to see people keeping the old sound spirits alive for future hi-fier's.

If we reach 80 years,it would be a task to rearrange the stack!

Vintage gear has a higher drool factor over more than a few new pieces,in my estimation.

Yes,I do salivate when raising the roof with a bitchin' amp...


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Giving the JH-13's what they should have.
> 
> My old rugby coach said "hit 'em so hard the snot runs down their nose..."
> 
> ...


 


   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I received my own little bundle of joy today...all 80 pounds of it...


 
  Wow!! Both of those look really impressive. Skylab be sure to let us know how it compares to the 1250.


----------



## MrQ

Skylab... that's just vintage audio p0rn.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks. She's a beauty, alright. Sounding great driving LCD-2's. Will be a while before I can try it with speakers...I'm not sure it's going to fit in my rack...it's almost 9" high, 20" deep, and 22" wide. The depth and width I was prepared for. But I sorta forgot about the height. And I am a pretty fit guy, but hoisting this 80 pound monster around is no easy trick...


----------



## MrQ

Quote:  





> <snip>
> I'm not sure it's going to fit in my rack...it's almost 9" high, 20" deep, and 22" wide.


 
  Heh, that's not a receiver, that an oven with VU's. I've got a 1250 in my sights, so I'll be interested to see how it compares. Congrats on your  purchase.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Giving the JH-13's what they should have.
> 
> My old rugby coach said "hit 'em so hard the snot runs down their nose..."


 

 What's the noise floor on that with IEMs? Is there any background hum?
   
  ps I Thought you guys west of UK didn't play without lots of padding, being delicate n' all.


----------



## scompton

5aces, it's amazing that the volume isn't at brain melting levels even at the setting in the picture.  I've never attempted to plug an IEM into one of my vintage amps.  Every portable amp I've tried has too much gain for me with IEMs.


----------



## musicman59

OMG Rob!! That "super" receiver is just incredible!!


----------



## scottiebabie

i just get a warm fuzziness seeing a monsta 170watter intergrated amp being used to drive a set of IEMs. i just love this hobby!
   
  skylab if u do get a chance & provided u have a normal receiver on hand, do post a 1980 vs side by side or a plain missionary pic as i dont think too many folks have an idea how much of a beast the 1980 is. its huge both in terms of output & physical presence!


----------



## Skylab

musicman59 said:


> OMG Rob!! That "super" receiver is just incredible!!




Thanks Jose! I am definitely digging it 


scottiebabie said:


> skylab if u do get a chance & provided u have a normal receiver on hand, do post a 1980 vs side by side or a plain missionary pic as i dont think too many folks have an idea how much of a beast the 1980 is. its huge both in terms of output & physical presence!



I wish I could, but I don't own any "modern" receivers. I have always been a separates guy...my modern stereo is separate preamp/power amp, etc. But you're right, it is hard to imagine how massive this beast is unless you see it live. It is larger than even the very biggest surround-sound receiver I have ever seen. And for sure way heavier. The build quality on this and the SX-1250 is nothing short of astonishing.


----------



## 5aces

Here is what I said about the 'best' portable amplifier for the 13's:

"Am I the only sadist on here that listens to the Pico Slim at full bore,straight out of the pipe?
With this amp,nothing happens until after the 9 o'clock turn,faint sound at 10,late night listening at 2 or 3 and then the full monty on a track I know and love."

I was hella frustrated due to the lack of gain on portable gear.

Your vintage pieces must be fully serviced and tuned.
If you plan on storing some gear,you have to bring it out of the closet every 3 months,power it up and cycle all the switches to keep it running clean.

If a signal is running through any of my pieces I just hear music through the headphone out,no crackle or hiss.
I have spent many evenings on the Marantz headphone out.

On the Sansui,I can get to half with the 13's but you know the level should not be sustained for long by the human ear.
Different story with the JBL 112 speakers.
They were made to take power for long periods of time and are a match made in heaven with the AU 20000 for the blues and rock I crave.
In the small listening room as the dial is turned up,the amplifier just jams right through any musical passage you play and friends faces look agape as the music is pressed right through their body.
I could take this amplifier to a desert island and be content.
Some of it is nostalgia,as I'd saved up all my cash as a teenager and bought brand new '76 Sansui AU 5500/TU 5500,Sansui 3-Way Speakers and a JVC direct drive turntable with a Sonus Blue Label cartridge.

Gave it all to my son,this is what I have created:


P.S. chances for a contusion playing proper rugby anywhere is 100%,that much I remember...


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





5aces said:


> I was hella frustrated due to the lack of gain on portable gear.
> 
> 
> P.S. chances for a contusion playing proper rugby anywhere is 100%,that much I remember...


 

 LOL, and I'm frustrated with the excessive gain on portable gear on low gain settings.
   
  I worked with a rugby player once.  He came in with a different severe injury every week.  None of them stopped him from playing, even a broken arm and broken nose.


----------



## RexAeterna

trust me,after a while you'll get use to it. not just receivers but i use to haul around 100lb professional CRT monitors up and down stairs all the time when i made a score(i sure love sony's legendary crt's).anyways...

 that's a really nice piece you got their. you got one of the monsters. only other receiver i know of that has it over the pioneer's is the technics SA-1000 but i heard it doesn't sound as good as it looks.it's only good for raw horsepower. well congrats. hope you enjoy your new toy.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks. She's a beauty, alright. Sounding great driving LCD-2's. Will be a while before I can try it with speakers...I'm not sure it's going to fit in my rack...it's almost 9" high, 20" deep, and 22" wide. The depth and width I was prepared for. But I sorta forgot about the height. And I am a pretty fit guy, but hoisting this 80 pound monster around is no easy trick...


----------



## Frank I

That Pioneer is a beast. tomorrow I am peeking at the 5590. I want to stop buying this stuff. My family thinks I cracked up. LOL But its fun Imaginne using 160W to drive a 93DB single driver I must be cooked. but the He6 are coming with me


----------



## RexAeterna

i see he uses a gibson sg. good guitar. i just love the heavy body of gibsons with some nice warm symour ducans installed. also big fan of ibanez's. i had one one with pair of dimarzio evolutions. man did it sing on my friend's huge marshall stack system.i love the blues,jazz and soft rock. i mostly listen to that stuff on the my tuners or run it off my stored hard drives. good stuff just to sit back and listen to. you introduce your son to some of the good stuff from some of the older albums?
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> Here is what I said about the 'best' portable amplifier for the 13's:
> 
> "Am I the only sadist on here that listens to the Pico Slim at full bore,straight out of the pipe?
> With this amp,nothing happens until after the 9 o'clock turn,faint sound at 10,late night listening at 2 or 3 and then the full monty on a track I know and love."
> ...


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks. She's a beauty, alright. Sounding great driving LCD-2's. Will be a while before I can try it with speakers...I'm not sure it's going to fit in my rack...it's almost 9" high, 20" deep, and 22" wide. The depth and width I was prepared for. But I sorta forgot about the height. And I am a pretty fit guy, but hoisting this 80 pound monster around is no easy trick...


 


  I can only imagine how big that beast is. My sx1010 is the original monster receiver. It's 20.5" wide, 16.5" deep, and almost 7" high. It's a nearly 50lb beast but that doesn't come close to that 80lb marvel of yours.


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well I have onkyo's current flagship receiver. It's 17 1/4" wide, 16.5" deep and 7 1/4 high and weighs 55lbs. Overall it's a little smaller and a little heavier than my sx1010. But here's the thing. It's a 9 channel receiver rated at 145wpc. My sx1010 is two channels and rated at only a little more than 100wpc. The 1980 is bigger, much more heavier, and nearly three times more powerful. They just don't make them like that anymore.


----------



## Skylab

frank i said:


> That Pioneer is a beast. tomorrow I am peeking at the 5590. I want to stop buying this stuff. My family thinks I cracked up. LOL But its fun Imaginne using 160W to drive a 93DB single driver I must be cooked. but the He6 are coming with me



Yeah it's crazy. Using the 1980 to drive headphones is a little like using a Ferarri to only drive up and down the block. But you know what? I'm still loving it.

There is no doubt, as has been said, that it is not just the stellar performance, which is there for sure, but also for me the nostalgia from the perspective of the fact that when I was a young teen I absolutely listed after these. And so it is a huge kick to actually own and use one now. And add to that how flipping fantastic it sounds, many years later.

The reason I bought this particular SX1980 though is that it had already been completely serviced: recapped, bias adjusted, tuner aligned, and generally cleaned and lubed. I dont have the time, sadly, to do much of that work myself. I would like to...maybe someday.


----------



## Frank I

The funny thing I am still amazed at how fgood this SX650 sounds. its so detailed and musical. Its great with both headphones and it all i really need. I never thought this would sound as good as it does. But I will get to listen to the 5590 160W tomorrow and see what condition it is in.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm still waiting for you to get tired of the 2275, but the 1250 is pretty attractive now.  You can't possibly keep them all...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Actually, I really should stop spending money on audio one of these days...


----------



## Frank I

Larry your getting the itch too. LOL It really is crazy. I am only using 2 of the three receivers now and my Sansui G4500 needs more love. I am enjoying the Puioneer Silverface receivers they are musical but I want to see if that 5590 is in good condition as it can be had reasonable.


----------



## Frank I

Well I looked at the 5590 today. It was magnificent looking but there was a static issue in the left channel so I passed. It reminded me of the issue with my SX980 so I did not want to have it repaired so i passed on it.


----------



## RexAeterna

how much did they want for it?
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> Well I looked at the 5590 today. It was magnificent looking but there was a static issue in the left channel so I passed. It reminded me of the issue with my SX980 so I did not want to have it repaired so i passed on it.


----------



## RexAeterna

none of the parts are original? kinda too bad cause you probably not know how the pioneer sounded before and after recap. if you like the sound then that's all that matters. i never had any of my amps recapped. still all original from the factory and in cared for condition. no sign of dried up caps,leakage or any disfiguration. my 5000x though is in need of bias adjustment but i can't do anything till i pick up some fuses for my multi-meter today 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> how much did they want for it?


 

 500.00


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> none of the parts are original? kinda too bad cause you probably not know how the pioneer sounded before and after recap. if you like the sound then that's all that matters. i never had any of my amps recapped. still all original from the factory and in cared for condition. no sign of dried up caps,leakage or any disfiguration. my 5000x though is in need of bias adjustment but i can't do anything till i pick up some fuses for my multi-meter today


 

 The problem is not the replacement capping its the caps he used. he probably put crap in there so he need to get it right. if he would use audiophile caps no issue would be there. He will get it right or I will force him to buy it. Sometime they cut corners because they not dealing with people who know sound. He know now what I want and he should fix it.


----------



## RexAeterna

really i was expecting in the 1000's. in a couple months if they don't sell it  i might check it out maybe...but i'm not positive if i would consider it. i never been to the store there. is all there gear in the hundreds? i see their store listed all over craigslist but it seems cheapest gear they carry are speakers and are in 250 range. i only know about barracks trading post and goodwill stores i usually visit to see if i can get anything for a fair price.
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> 500.00


----------



## RexAeterna

yea i know what your saying. i was just saying it cause it could of been a fun experience. i never heard the term ''audiophile caps'' before. i just know about the materials used in each cap and how the material can impact the sonic qualities especially power filter caps. i had tons of people trying to recap gear without knowing what to look for and had no satifying results and end up putting the old caps back in.
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> The problem is not the replacement capping its the caps he used. he probably put crap in there so he need to get it right. if he would use audiophile caps no issue would be there. He will get it right or I will force him to buy it. Sometime they cut corners because they not dealing with people who know sound. He know now what I want and he should fix it.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> none of the parts are original? kinda too bad cause you probably not know how the pioneer sounded before and after recap. if you like the sound then that's all that matters. i never had any of my amps recapped. still all original from the factory and in cared for condition. no sign of dried up caps,leakage or any disfiguration. my 5000x though is in need of bias adjustment but i can't do anything till i pick up some fuses for my multi-meter today


 

 The general consensus on AudioKarma seems to be that outside of the main filter/reservoir caps (assuming those are OK), recaps are mandatory on older gear - out of spec caps will color the sound as much or more than new replacements would change it from what it was.  What is considered generally sacrosanct are the output devices.  If you change those, why bother buying the vintage piece other than the looks.  That makes sense to me, so that is the path I have followed.  Old caps can also pose somewhat of a hazard, too, so best to recap as needed.  And of course re-aligning the tuner is not replacing any vintage parts...


----------



## RexAeterna

i know it's meant to be mandatory for some but i haven't had any issues with either my amps or tried recapping them. only way to test the caps is take them out and i kinda don't want to mess with it unless i was actually considering doing a recap job. i will consider recapping in the near future but for now i'm gonna take care of the smaller things and do bias adjustment and so forth. only thing i be recapping soon is some crossovers for my pioneer cs-77a speakers i found since the caps are way over 30 years old and past their time and the fb drivers used are really good drivers especially the woofers. i might even build a new wood cab for my 5000x and paint it black. i'm a sucker for wood cabs on receivers. 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The general consensus on AudioKarma seems to be that outside of the main filter/reservoir caps (assuming those are OK), recaps are mandatory on older gear - out of spec caps will color the sound as much or more than new replacements would change it from what it was.  What is considered generally sacrosanct are the output devices.  If you change those, why bother buying the vintage piece other than the looks.  That makes sense to me, so that is the path I have followed.  Old caps can also pose somewhat of a hazard, too, so best to recap as needed.  And of course re-aligning the tuner is not replacing any vintage parts...


----------



## scottiebabie

IMO besides the ubiqitious cleaning & adjustments for proper function, theres no real "need" for any work to be done as long as theres music coming out of these amps. that said, i would say its a safe bet that 30-40yr old amps wont sounding their best or atleast as how they should sound when new as everything has a shelf life. plus technology has improved the materials used in electrolytic caps so a full recapping projects more than a good idea.
   
  for me, the actual recapping is the easier part, its the disassembly/reassembly & perhaps getting the correct BOM list for the requisite parts thats the headache. as for using non factory spec'd parts eg.output transistors, i suppose its no different than tube rolling cap rolling or opamp rolling. 
   
  IMO what makes these vintages 'special' besides the topnotch quality & purty casing (to my eyes anyways). machined alu knobs & faceplates, captain midnite lighting, etc etc, is the incredible (&beeeeeefffffy) power supplies. as an eg, just 1 of the 2 trafos in my 65watter AU-517 is bigger than the trafos used in most modern 100+ watters stereo amp/receivers. i do believe its this over built over designed power supplies that gives our vintages their special sonics esp in warmth, bottom end extension/fullness & the ability to drive almost any type of load. FWIW these power supplies are also the primary cause of the back breaking weight of our amps.
   
  all that plus discrete circuitry, perhaps full discrete in most of these amps because they were built at any age before the invasion of cheap ubiqitous (&oft crappy sounding) opamps!
   
  its the expensive way of building amps & we're lucky that that was how things were done back then. so lets keep our amps running for another 50yrs so our kids & grandkids can enjoy them too.


----------



## Skylab

@RexAeterna - I'm the same about the wood on the receivers - I got the recommendation on AK to use some Old English Scratch Cover on my 1980's wood. I just did that and the results were STUNNING. I highly recommend it.

@ScottieBabie - No doubt man, the power supplies are a BIG reason these things are so awesome. the power supply on the 1250, 1980, and the Sansui 9090 are just the kind of thing you only see on VERY night end products today. Of course, those all WERE high end products, back in their day


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> really i was expecting in the 1000's. in a couple months if they don't sell it  i might check it out maybe...but i'm not positive if i would consider it. i never been to the store there. is all there gear in the hundreds? i see their store listed all over craigslist but it seems cheapest gear they carry are speakers and are in 250 range. i only know about barracks trading post and goodwill stores i usually visit to see if i can get anything for a fair price.


 

 There are plenty speakers in their including vintage AR for 289.00 but I would offer him way less as the jpoint is closing. That 5590 has an issue in the left channel and its probably cap and solder so expect at least 150.00 or more to repair it plus antenna is cracked and its mssing two switches and the rear fin is cracked and missing a piece but my concern is the static in the right channel.


----------



## RexAeterna

old english is amazing. i use it on my sansui 5000x all the time. borught the nice natural wood color right out and gave it an amazing polish as well. i like using brasso to polish and clean faceplates and knobs as well. brasso smells like straight up cat litter but works really well.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> @RexAeterna - I'm the same about the wood on the receivers - I got the recommendation on AK to use some Old English Scratch Cover on my 1980's wood. I just did that and the results were STUNNING. I highly recommend it.
> 
> @ScottieBabie - No doubt man, the power supplies are a BIG reason these things are so awesome. the power supply on the 1250, 1980, and the Sansui 9090 are just the kind of thing you only see on VERY night end products today. Of course, those all WERE high end products, back in their day


----------



## RexAeterna

dang i didn't know that bad. if they were giving it price of 150 or so i probably would consider it due to it's rarity maybe. i didn't know their gear had issues so that whole thing about everything being serviced by professionals is bunch of b/s they advertise huh? i give them a look. i know it's in maple shade but i need to find where. i'm looking for a nice yamaha receiver to get my hands on or yamaha power amps. do they carry headphones by any chance? i never been having luck lately finding headphones locally cause i do not buy from independent sellers online. been trying to find a pair of older akg 240 monitors. some reason i always wanted a pair. 
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> There are plenty speakers in their including vintage AR for 289.00 but I would offer him way less as the jpoint is closing. That 5590 has an issue in the left channel and its probably cap and solder so expect at least 150.00 or more to repair it plus antenna is cracked and its mssing two switches and the rear fin is cracked and missing a piece but my concern is the static in the right channel.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> dang i didn't know that bad. if they were giving it price of 150 or so i probably would consider it due to it's rarity maybe. i didn't know their gear had issues so that whole thing about everything being serviced by professionals is bunch of b/s they advertise huh? i give them a look. i know it's in maple shade but i need to find where. i'm looking for a nice yamaha receiver to get my hands on or yamaha power amps. do they carry headphones by any chance? i never been having luck lately finding headphones locally cause i do not buy from independent sellers online. been trying to find a pair of older akg 240 monitors. some reason i always wanted a pair.


 
  There were no yahama receivers and so you know they are not thought of too highly on audiokharma.. i would stick vintage to Sansui,Marantz,Pioneer. There were no headphones in there and I can tell you they service nothing but will tell you they do. Dishonest tones in there and he is to be frank a moron. So be cautious in there. They will be out of there in a month so I am not sure what happened but just be careful. If he dont want to put that amp on ebay its because of chargebacks because he sold on ebay before.. I know they service nothing because he said he sprayed all the controls but when he started to open it up he did not know how to take the cover off to get to the volume control so caught a little lie there


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> dang i didn't know that bad. if they were giving it price of 150 or so i probably would consider it due to it's rarity maybe. i didn't know their gear had issues so that whole thing about everything being serviced by professionals is bunch of b/s they advertise huh? i give them a look. i know it's in maple shade but i need to find where. i'm looking for a nice yamaha receiver to get my hands on or yamaha power amps. do they carry headphones by any chance? i never been having luck lately finding headphones locally cause i do not buy from independent sellers online. been trying to find a pair of older akg 240 monitors. some reason i always wanted a pair.


 

 He wont sell for that he wants 500.00 cash no credit cards another red flag


----------



## scompton

frank i said:


> There were no yahama receivers and so you know they are not thought of too highly on audiokharma..





I've seen numerous threads on Yamaha receivers that are highly thought of in the CR-x10 and CR-x20 series.  Some of the amps, like the B-1, go for astronomical prices, but are unrepairable if a VFET goes.  They're also very highly thought of on the ortho thread.  A number of people over there have the CR-620 and love them.


----------



## RexAeterna

that's horrible and i thought barracks was bad. i still see what he got. i wonder what's gonna happen once the store shuts down. maybe everything get thrown in the dump? i be scoring some free LPs lol.
  
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> There were no yahama receivers and so you know they are not thought of too highly on audiokharma.. i would stick vintage to Sansui,Marantz,Pioneer. There were no headphones in there and I can tell you they service nothing but will tell you they do. Dishonest tones in there and he is to be frank a moron. So be cautious in there. They will be out of there in a month so I am not sure what happened but just be careful. If he dont want to put that amp on ebay its because of chargebacks because he sold on ebay before.. I know they service nothing because he said he sprayed all the controls but when he started to open it up he did not know how to take the cover off to get to the volume control so caught a little lie there


----------



## RexAeterna

i see the cr-620 sell all the time locally. was thinking about it but i passed cause i was looking for more power speaker wise. i gotten a trade offer for an vintage R-9 receiver for my sansui au-d7. while i was thinking about it he said he gave it to his dad. i found a cr-1000 as well for 75 bucks but owner says left channel is out so i might hit him up saying 60 is the highest i'll go.
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> I've seen numerous threads on Yamaha receivers that are highly thought of in the SR-x10 and SR-x20 series.  Some of the amps, like the B-1, go for astronomical prices, but are unrepairable if a VFET goes.  They're also very highly thought of on the ortho thread.  A number of people over there have the SR-620 and love them.


----------



## Skylab

The main reason the AK crowd dumps on the vintage CR series of Yamaha receivers isn't the sound - it's that the are many unobtainable parts, and so buying one is risky in that many issues result in it being a doorstop.


----------



## 5aces

rexaeterna said:


> i see he uses a gibson sg. good guitar.You introduce your son to some of the good stuff from some of the older albums?




He is an illustrator and wonderful guitar musician.
Whoever would draw Keith Moon when learning to sketch? And take pictures of EL 84 Tubes at a young age? 


I know he would like the Gibson Reissue series guitar and has little faith in Sovtek guitar amplifier tubes...

I passed the entire vinyl collection to him,which was extensive.
Before Remixes,we had the notorious Disco,so he even must endure that in the collection.
Bit of a gap in Folk music,I still shudder at the thought of being locked in a girlfriends room when she reached for another shot of John Denver or America to que up on the turntable.
On the way home in the car,it was Rush and April Wine 8 tracks to hammer away the folk singers.

Plenty of time spent at Sam the Record Man on Yonge St. in Toronto.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Plenty of time spent at Sam the Record Man on Yonge St. in Toronto.


 

  
  wow...Sam The Record Man sure brings back the memories! time of misspent youth on Yonge St, Eaton Centre, skating dates at city hall & last but not least, 24hr all nite kungfu flicks rite beside Sams. i remember the buncha us walking up & down Yonge to Yorkville & back just to window shop & yes....drool at the hifi gear we could never afford! too bad i hear Sams gone to record heaven.


----------



## RexAeterna

very nice art. i wish i had those things available to me when i was younger i would of know a lot more today then i do now. i like to draw sometimes but not great at it. i'm more abstract type of guy. i really do like the drawing tho and he is very talented. also i would assume he is a great musician as well. i'm all self-taught in everything i do and so-so at it. hard finding good gear when being left-handed. i never liked flipping strings cause my arm would get in way of tone controls.
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

I hooked my SX-1980 up to my B&W N805's roday, and I do think it actually sounds a little better than my SX-1250 (which itself I think sounds fabulous).  It's important that I caveat this as "MY" versions, since both my 1250 and 1980 were recapped.  The phono stage in the 1980 strikes me especially as being better on the 1980.
   
  So the 1980 is going to take up permanent residence in my vintage rig:
   

   
  Looking much better after the Old English treatment, too:


----------



## RexAeterna

well i just got back from messing around in radioshack,lowes and home goods today. i decided to buy a new basic digital multi-meter to reset the bias on my 5000x. lowes i got some black spray paint for wood and gonna build up a new wood encloursure for my sansui 5000x and paint it satin black. in my head i imagine it looking really killer looking to me. lets see how the paint job turns out. i'm never ever ever ever gonna sell my sansui 5000x cause it's really special amp with lots of power for very heavy loads so i'm like ''why the hell not?''. i also bought some carpet for more room acoustic treatment on my back wall cause carpet is cheap and works as well or better then acoustic foam. acoustic foam would cost me more ordering it from parts express cause i would need a lot to cover my wall compared to the free carpet i got from my friend and the one i spent on home goods cause of clearance sale.

 you can tell huge difference in your voice in my area with treated carpet compared to my other rooms in my house. even my friends that's not into music like me can automatically hear a major difference as soon as they walk in my area.


----------



## RexAeterna

that's totally awesome. glad your enjoying your new pioneer. good job on the clean up as well. you can see huge difference in the wood finish after the old english treatment.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I hooked my SX-1980 up to my B&W N805's roday, and I do think it actually sounds a little better than my SX-1250 (which itself I think sounds fabulous).  It's important that I caveat this as "MY" versions, since both my 1250 and 1980 were recapped.  The phono stage in the 1980 strikes me especially as being better on the 1980.
> 
> So the 1980 is going to take up permanent residence in my vintage rig:
> 
> ...


----------



## nbourbaki

My recapped Sony STR-V6


----------



## Skylab

Wow! Very nice. That series of Sony are very nice sounding receivers. Very cool.


----------



## nbourbaki

Thanks!  I had to choose between this and my Marantz 4270 quad receiver for bedroom duty.  This one won.  My favorite vintage pieces are my Yamaha B2 V-FET amps and matching C-2a preamp.  I just don't have room to set them up and summer is coming and those amps put out the heat for 100w amps.


----------



## wualta

[sets up annoying rhythmic chant]
  B-2!
  B-2!
  B-2!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I hooked my SX-1980 up to my B&W N805's roday, and I do think it actually sounds a little better than my SX-1250 (which itself I think sounds fabulous).  It's important that I caveat this as "MY" versions, since both my 1250 and 1980 were recapped.  The phono stage in the 1980 strikes me especially as being better on the 1980.
> 
> So the 1980 is going to take up permanent residence in my vintage rig:
> 
> Looking much better after the Old English treatment, too:


 


  That's so beautiful.  I just can't imagine spending that much on a vintage receiver, although I was prepared to take the 2275 off your hands instead of the 2240.  What was wrong with the 1250 that made you spring for the 1980?


----------



## RexAeterna

well i just got done putting a new custom walnut enclourse together and painting it. it turned out lot better then expected. new black wood enclourse looks beautiful and looks as stunning on the sansui 5000x as i imagined. satin black fits the silver face plate and vintage green lights very well.will take pics as soon i let the wood dry over night completely.


----------



## Skylab

@Wualta - that Yammy looks WAY cool! Very nice.

@HeadphoneAddict - nothing at all wrong with the SX-1250 - in fact it's killer. I have this annoying habit iof liking to scale the heights of things once I get into them, that's all, and the SX-1980 is in many ways the height of 1970's receivers...for sure it is the height of the Pioneers. Plus I found one already recapped for a decent price. 

Also, these are not "trophys" for me - the SX-1980 got plopped into my man-cave rig where it will be used daily, and the Marantz 2275 is powering both speakers and headphones in my office. I use the stuff I buy 

@ RexA - looking forward to seeing the pics, man, sounds awesome!


----------



## audiopoor

I'm late to this party but it all trips me out, especially the photos because I remember when these components were brand new, sitting on dealers shelves.
  I caught the bug in '73 when in the 8th grade while I was attending school in NH.  I went into the Art House and found a Stereo Review.  I picked it up and read and looked at the pictures and was forever hooked.
  At the end of the school year we moved to the Chicago area.  It was a true audio nut's playground in the '70s as most of us know.  But nothing topped Providence, where I moved to in 1976.  I remember spending Saturdays up on the east side with my girlfriend when she was attending Brown.  In a 2 square block area at Thayer and Angell there was Tech HiFi, Tweeter Etc. (when it was "higher-end" audio only), Music Systems Ltd., Ashly HiFi, Public Stereo, Student Discount Center and Sound II.  The suburbs were packed too.  Remember that during this time there were 300 Yen to the dollar and decent gear was affordable to all.  Color tvs cost a lot, there was no pre-recorded video, no video games, no computers/internet.  Everyone wanted a "stereo" and yeah we had Quaaludes too.
  Today good gear is crazy expensive although there are bargains and diamonds in the rough to be found.  But that '70s gear looked the part, didn't it?  It is also easy to restore and modify with today's better parts that yesterday's designers only dreamed about.  I was one of them.
  Even my 1974 entry level Pioneer SX-424 receiver qualifies as eye candy by today's standards.


----------



## 5aces

Many of you will know this already but for those who may not:

*SPEAKER WARNING!--*This applies to most vintage amplifiers:

Do *NOT* connect 4 speakers to your amp if the impedance of any of the speakers is 4 ohms. 
This will definitely damage the amp sooner or later. 
Remember some amps do not have fused output lines or fused power supply rails. 
You are likely to cause major damage to your equipment if you ignore this warning. 
If you must use 4 speakers, then all 4 speakers must be 8 Ohms (not 6 or 4 ohms). 
Usually specified by the manufacturer.Please pay attention to this. 
Many amplifiers are damaged this way. 
Note that most new speakers are 4 Ohms or less! 
If you must use 4 speakers that are 4 ohms, then you must connect each pair in series and then connect either to system A or B but not both. 

High wattage amplifiers/receivers may be a pleasure to hear,having the power reserve on hand to supply better realism to the music for transients-dynamics but you now have the capability to melt many voice coils on the planet if turned to full volume.
Other purposes may be to drive multiple speaker systems throughout your living quarters,without undue stress on the equipment.

Some real TOTL vintage gear here,all of these pieces evoke a memory of some kind...just make sure the smell of burned electronics isn't one of them!
Keep on listening...


----------



## RexAeterna

well heres a quick pic of finish project. sorry for crappy pic. i seriously do not have the best cam in the world.



         
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









EDIT: sorry but having hard time posting pic on the forum here. i use the correct 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 each end but won't load pic and when you click on the link says not found. is it cause of the size? this current direct link works fine. just when i try to post it as an image it won't.


----------



## scompton

Click the picture icon and post the url into the 2nd tab.  The site by default uses HTML instead of BB code.  Supposedly, you can change it back to BB code in your profile.
   
  Does that have enough ventilation?


----------



## RexAeterna

scompton said:


> Click the picture icon and post the url into the 2nd tab.  The site by default uses HTML instead of BB code.  Supposedly, you can change it back to BB code in your profile.
> 
> Does that have enough ventilation?




got it working. i had to change it to BB code in my profile. and yes it has plenty. the vents look bigger in person. it has a massive heatsink in the back for the output transistors. it can be a pain tho hooking up speakers cause the speaker terminals are right underneath the massive heatsink in the back and my hands aren't exactly small either so it can be a pain for me. it's a very powerful amp and has no issues driving any load,even can put some ohm walsh 2ohm speakers in there place easily. i think cause of the massive power supply as well this thing has.


----------



## Skylab

RexA that looks awesome, man. Nice work.

5Aces, good advice. I'm only using one pair of speakers with mine! No need for multiple sets of speakers anywhere in my house, other than the surround rig, and I have multiple amps for that...the vintage receiver has just one pair of speakers to drive.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> RexA that looks awesome, man. Nice work.




thanks. it looks lot better in person cause you actually see the paint finish how it bonded to the wood grain. i'm such horrible picture taker as well. if i spent as much of my time taking photos as i do listening to music i'll probably be a professional by now


----------



## Maverickmonk

nbourbaki, that sony is gorgeous. I love the look of old sony gear.
   
  In other news:
  The marantz 2245 is running well, I bought some cheap rca jacks at radioshack and fabbed up a mounting plate out of sheet pvc. Got them all wired up and now everything's connected all properly and such. There's still a slight humm in the background, but hopefully that will go away when I work up the nerve (and paycheck) to recap and rebias the thing this summer. Until then, it's happy listening time!


----------



## GrandZechs

Here is my Sony STR-V5 with my Stanton Dynaphase Fiftys.
   

  Just thought I'd share.


----------



## shipsupt

I am picking up a pioneer SX-650 tomorrow that I plan to try with my LCD-2 and HE5-LE.... Yes I'm very excited to give the vintage kit a try!

How is the HPO on the 650? Should I be thinking about speaker taps, or will I be fine just plugging in?


----------



## strum4h

I have a Technics SA-500 I got in fantastic condition for 20 dollars. It is my first piece of audio gear other then this crappy magnavox stereo I have. Ill post a pic when I get home (at uni)


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I am picking up a pioneer SX-650 tomorrow that I plan to try with my LCD-2 and HE5-LE.... Yes I'm very excited to give the vintage kit a try!
> 
> How is the HPO on the 650? Should I be thinking about speaker taps, or will I be fine just plugging in?


 

 The SX650 drives my hE6 out of the headphone jack and i have not used the speaker taps. It surprisingly very very good and very powerful on speakers for only 35W it feels its on steroids.


----------



## RexAeterna

well i'm having a guy coming by my place to check out my sansui au-d7(silver face version) amp for trade. he clearly won't be disappointed cause i driven this amp hard with no issues and if you really wanted to you can use this amp as a dedicated subwoofer amp to create an earth quake in your area you have no problem doing so(mentioning bass all the time since low frequencies require most of the power while midranges and tweeters need very little compared to the woofers and subwoofers. i am not a basshead tho).

i'm going into yamaha territory now and seeing how his yamaha R-9 is. read lot of people loved the yamaha R-9 actually over the older CR models,so i see how it goes. his yamaha is class A amp from 1980's. i see how i like it compared to my sansui 5000x since my sansui 5000x has always been my main amp. i have heard many amps that have more raw power in specs compared to my 5000x but for some reason i always find something special about it's sound and power handling. lets see how this 125wpc yamaha R-9 stacks up to it in sonics.


----------



## shipsupt

frank i said:


> The SX650 drives my hE6 out of the headphone jack and i have not used the speaker taps. It surprisingly very very good and very powerful on speakers for only 35W it feels its on steroids.




Thanks Frank! Yours was one of the recomendattions that had me add the 650 to my vintage watch list.


----------



## sphinxvc

Hold that Lyr after all, I'm getting good power right out of my Sony STR-D715 receiver's HPO with my 5LEs.  
   
  Thinking the vintage receiver route now.
   
  Shipsupt, would you share what else was on your vintage watch list?  
   
  There are a couple of sx-650s and 680s on ebay at the moment.
   
  This frees up my budget alot.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Hold that Lyr after all, I'm getting good power right out of my Sony STR-D715 receiver's HPO with my 5LEs.
> 
> Thinking the vintage receiver route now.
> 
> ...


 


  Try your craig list and search under Pioneer daily and then untder vintage electronics and you will find one like I found my SX980. I also see two 750SX and  a680 and 780 on there in NJ right now. Plum out of space for any more unless I find a 1250 or 5590 in good condition. I passed on a 5590 because it had left channel static so i did not want to spend another 150.00 to clean and repair


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


frank i said:


> Try your craig list and search under Pioneer daily and then untder vintage electronics and you will find one like I found my SX980. I also see two 750SX and  a680 and 780 on there in NJ right now. Plum out of space for any more unless I find a 1250 or 5590 in good condition. I passed on a 5590 because it had left channel static so i did not want to spend another 150.00 to clean and repair


 

 Thanks, will do.  How does the 650 compare to your 980 and do you use HPO w/ both?


----------



## RexAeterna

well i just got the yamaha r-9. powerful and nice sounding unit. i actually like it more than my sansui au-d7 i traded for it. thing is this thing gets hot. i mean HOT! running in class A mode. looks lot better and bigger in person as well. it's actually larger then my sansui 5000x.


----------



## RexAeterna

after some brief listening i actually like this as much as my sansui 5000x but my 5000x still has slight edge in sonics but defiantly not power. this thing has insane torque. no need to crank the bass knob anymore. well this unit is of course 125wpc class A/B amp compared to my sansui rated at 60wpc. stays in class A up till 35w but don't let that little number fool you cause you can get some nice volume headroom for 35w.

for my akg 240's i still like them on the sansui 5000x more. sounds like it has too much bass on the yamaha compared to my sansui. sounds just right on my speakers tho. maybe if i get some vintage yamaha orthodynamics they probably sound nice on it since lot of yamaha orthos are known to pair well with vintage yamaha gear. i love the amp. first yamaha amp and love it. it runs luke warm in class A/B but insanely hot in class A due to more current being drawn.it's a keeper for sure. i will take pic soon.


----------



## scompton

The Yamaha CR series put a plastic plug in the headphone jacks that said, "Reserved for Yamaha Orthodynamics". A pretty amusing bit of marketing hype.   A few people on the ortho thread have the CR-620 and really like it with Yamaha orthos.


----------



## wualta

True, although the example I had was just... good. To my ears, typical mid-'70s transistor sound, albeit from one of the better manufacturers of the time.


----------



## RexAeterna

scompton said:


> The Yamaha CR series put a plastic plug in the headphone jacks that said, "Reserved for Yamaha Orthodynamics". A pretty amusing bit of marketing hype.   A few people on the ortho thread have the CR-620 and really like it with Yamaha orthos.




i never heard that before. that is interesting so i guess i be better off trying to find some yamaha orthos for this receiver? my amp tho is not part of the CR series since the CR series was made in the 70's. this R-9 was made around 1985 i think and actually has inputs for video equipment as well as audio but still an audio receiver first.


----------



## RexAeterna

well heres a quick pic of the yamaha R-9.









i tried to get best lighting as possible but for life of me couldn't get a nice shot to turn the way i wanted it. anyways it's better looking in person and is very nice sounding as well with lots of power. i think this was yamaha's flagship during the 80's. i'm not sure.


----------



## mythless

One of my latest acquisitions and despite the name, it's a well made receiver and sounds pretty good, a bit too much hiss with the HF-2 though, probably likes higher impedance headphones more.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mythless said:


> One of my latest acquisitions and despite the name, it's a well made receiver and sounds pretty good, a bit too much hiss with the HF-2 though, probably likes higher impedance headphones more.


 

 Too bad it has that "brand"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The guy i bought my Kenwood from said that his (wanted me to buy his, or the "steal" price of anothers on craigslist) Bose speakers and said they would be better than my B&W.


----------



## Inkmo

I have pretty noticeable hiss on all my headphones through my pioneer sx-828 - except for my fostex t40.  nice thing about the 828 is it has a -20db mute switch that addresses the headphone problem pretty well


----------



## nbourbaki

RexAeterna, that Yamaha looks great.  For the life of me I can't get a good shot of my B-2's.  The black makes it hard to get a good picture.  Was the the R-9 that was on sale in Canada?  Enjoy!


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Too bad it has that "brand"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nothing really wrong with Bose, I have the 901 IV series speakers and EQ to go along with it.  Is it the best speaker I've heard, nope.  But, it's not the worst.  Sounds pretty good, but could use a refoam job and I am not really looking forward to do that just yet, lol.  And, it is really a neat bunch of equipment.  So many receivers and not enough speakers, hrmmmm.....Need to get a hold of some vintage Stax and Fostexs.


----------



## scompton

Stax are what go me buying vintage amps.  I wanted an upgrade from a T amp.  I realized the headphone out worked pretty good too.


----------



## shipsupt

@sphinxcv - I was honestly just getting the list started.  I was using this thread and some of the Ortho threads to start my research on some of the usual suspects.  The prices are all over the place on this vintage gear.  When Frank and others mentioned the Pioneer SX line it jumped out at me as very capable, had the features I wanted, and seemed reasonably priced.  The fact that the HPO out on these were praised was a very big factor in my decision as I preffered it to speaker tapping... just my preference.  I also don't have any current plans to drive speakers with it.  As luck would have it I found one right away on Craigslist for $50 and figured I couldn't go wrong... So my list creation got cut short.

So I picked up this monster today.  The good, it's clean inside and out, and the front silver face, dials, etc... are in perfect condition.  The not so good, the "wood" sides do have some cosmetic issues so it's not pristine, but for it's age it looks pretty good.  I'll do some work to clean it up and think about potential ideas to refurbish it.  The VERY good is the sound.  It's dead quiet with the orthos hooked up to the HPO and it is sounds wonderful.  Wow, the power!  I was struggling with the sound of my LCD-2's from my previous headphone amps, but beleive this '76 vintage gear has just changed that.  Yes, this 35 year old receiver seems to be the key for me to really appreciate my new orthos.  I've been listening since I got it home and it's just got me grinning from ear to ear.  A quick listen with the HE-5LE (which I found much better with my other gear) gave me a similar reaction.

I have to say that I was hesitant that this vintage craze was a bit of FOTM, but I am now a believer!

If there is any downside to this new aquistion for me it's that I have no idea where it's going to live at my place.  It's big and doesn't really fit at either of my listening spots.  But for sure it's going to find a place where I can get some serious listening time with it.


----------



## Zida

So I just got my Pioneer SA-8500 today. It feels like it's driving my HE-6 so well I don't know if I have to bother with going to the speaker taps, but I'll give it a whirl anyhow. My volume knob is only at 9:00 though 

 I've been looking forward to grabbing this amp for months and it finally happened. I sat down and enjoyed it (and it's great tone controls!) for maybe 4 hours before I decided to have a last look around craigslist and just found an SA-9100 for a great price. Oy. And I just haaad to find this thread, too [http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105549].

 This is getting silly, now.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> @sphinxcv - I was honestly just getting the list started.  I was using this thread and some of the Ortho threads to start my research on some of the usual suspects.  The prices are all over the place on this vintage gear.  When Frank and others mentioned the Pioneer SX line it jumped out at me as very capable, had the features I wanted, and seemed reasonably priced.  The fact that the HPO out on these were praised was a very big factor in my decision as I preffered it to speaker tapping... just my preference.  I also don't have any current plans to drive speakers with it.  As luck would have it I found one right away on Craigslist for $50 and figured I couldn't go wrong... So my list creation got cut short.
> 
> So I picked up this monster today.  The good, it's clean inside and out, and the front silver face, dials, etc... are in perfect condition.  The not so good, the "wood" sides do have some cosmetic issues so it's not pristine, but for it's age it looks pretty good.  I'll do some work to clean it up and think about potential ideas to refurbish it.  The VERY good is the sound.  It's dead quiet with the orthos hooked up to the HPO and it is sounds wonderful.  Wow, the power!  I was struggling with the sound of my LCD-2's from my previous headphone amps, but beleive this '76 vintage gear has just changed that.  Yes, this 35 year old receiver seems to be the key for me to really appreciate my new orthos.  I've been listening since I got it home and it's just got me grinning from ear to ear.  A quick listen with the HE-5LE (which I found much better with my other gear) gave me a similar reaction.
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you like it. I still am amazed at what comes out of the SX650. I also have cosmetic issue and if I can get someone to build a new wood case for me it would be worth it as the sound is clean and I have no issues with the receiver. All three of my receivers are fun to listen too and sound very very good. Powerful and graceful in one receiver is something to appreciate.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


shipsupt said:


> @sphinxcv - I was honestly just getting the list started.  I was using this thread and some of the Ortho threads to start my research on some of the usual suspects.  The prices are all over the place on this vintage gear.  When Frank and others mentioned the Pioneer SX line it jumped out at me as very capable, had the features I wanted, and seemed reasonably priced.  The fact that the HPO out on these were praised was a very big factor in my decision as I preffered it to speaker tapping... just my preference.  I also don't have any current plans to drive speakers with it.  As luck would have it I found one right away on Craigslist for $50 and figured I couldn't go wrong... So my list creation got cut short.
> 
> So I picked up this monster today.  The good, it's clean inside and out, and the front silver face, dials, etc... are in perfect condition.  The not so good, the "wood" sides do have some cosmetic issues so it's not pristine, but for it's age it looks pretty good.  I'll do some work to clean it up and think about potential ideas to refurbish it.  The VERY good is the sound.  It's dead quiet with the orthos hooked up to the HPO and it is sounds wonderful.  Wow, the power!  I was struggling with the sound of my LCD-2's from my previous headphone amps, but beleive this '76 vintage gear has just changed that.  Yes, this 35 year old receiver seems to be the key for me to really appreciate my new orthos.  I've been listening since I got it home and it's just got me grinning from ear to ear.  A quick listen with the HE-5LE (which I found much better with my other gear) gave me a similar reaction.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm checking out a 780 in a few hours, looks pretty clean, and the seller said the HPO works.  Might just come home with it.


----------



## RexAeterna

nbourbaki said:


> RexAeterna, that Yamaha looks great.  For the life of me I can't get a good shot of my B-2's.  The black makes it hard to get a good picture.  Was the the R-9 that was on sale in Canada?  Enjoy!




i'm not sure really if it was sold in canada or not. only thing i know i think the r-9 is the flagship model of the series. it's also first above 100w receiver i owned that i enjoy a lot. it gets really hot in class A mode tho.i always wanted to try to get a yamaha B-2 but can't find any locally.


----------



## Inkmo

Hmm, maybe I oughta check out a pair of these new-fangled orthos, since I have an old school Pioneer SX myself...
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> @sphinxcv - I was honestly just getting the list started.  I was using this thread and some of the Ortho threads to start my research on some of the usual suspects.  The prices are all over the place on this vintage gear.  When Frank and others mentioned the Pioneer SX line it jumped out at me as very capable, had the features I wanted, and seemed reasonably priced.  The fact that the HPO out on these were praised was a very big factor in my decision as I preffered it to speaker tapping... just my preference.  I also don't have any current plans to drive speakers with it.  As luck would have it I found one right away on Craigslist for $50 and figured I couldn't go wrong... So my list creation got cut short.
> 
> So I picked up this monster today.  The good, it's clean inside and out, and the front silver face, dials, etc... are in perfect condition.  The not so good, the "wood" sides do have some cosmetic issues so it's not pristine, but for it's age it looks pretty good.  I'll do some work to clean it up and think about potential ideas to refurbish it.  The VERY good is the sound.  It's dead quiet with the orthos hooked up to the HPO and it is sounds wonderful.  Wow, the power!  I was struggling with the sound of my LCD-2's from my previous headphone amps, but beleive this '76 vintage gear has just changed that.  Yes, this 35 year old receiver seems to be the key for me to really appreciate my new orthos.  I've been listening since I got it home and it's just got me grinning from ear to ear.  A quick listen with the HE-5LE (which I found much better with my other gear) gave me a similar reaction.
> 
> ...


----------



## sphinxvc

The SX-780.  Effortless power right out of the HPO.  Looks great too, that little blemish on the right side is nothing but glare on some scotch tape where the veneer was peeling.
   
  It's warm and musical, a very cohesive sound.  The lows are fantastic.  Need some more time to acclimate myself to it though.
   
  About $70 bucks.
   
  So is there any way to figure out how many WPC I'm getting out of the HPO?


----------



## shipsupt

Looks great!  Are you finding yourself listening with the Loudness on or off?

  
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> The SX-780.  Effortless power right out of the HPO.  Looks great too, that little blemish on the right side is nothing but glare on some scotch tape where the veneer was peeling.
> 
> It's warm and musical, a very cohesive sound.  The lows are fantastic.  Need some more time to acclimate myself to it though.
> 
> ...


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


shipsupt said:


> Looks great!  Are you finding yourself listening with the Loudness on or off?


 

 More on than off so far, I like the fullness.  Still playing around with it though.


----------



## RexAeterna

sphinxvc said:


> The SX-780.  Effortless power right out of the HPO.  Looks great too, that little blemish on the right side is nothing but glare on some scotch tape where the veneer was peeling.
> 
> It's warm and musical, a very cohesive sound.  The lows are fantastic.  Need some more time to acclimate myself to it though.
> 
> ...




to find how much power goes into the headphone out section you have to read the resistor's value in the schematics. usually HPO range from 1/2w-2w resistors. that's more then enough for about all headphones.


----------



## RexAeterna

sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> More on than off so far, I like the fullness.  Still playing around with it though.




i never liked using the loudness button really except on my 1976 craig receiver. if i find myself cranking the tone controls or loudness control other then fun then it might just mean i have to either get new speakers or more powerful amp.


----------



## sluker

I just picked this up from a local seller off of craigs list.
  I paid $200 and got the receiver, a tape deck (SC-1110) and the Sansui rack it came in. Listening right now with the LCD-2 out of the HP out and it sounds great. The highs are a bit bright but it could be just the fact that I am used to my LF339 which is warmer in comparison. Will report back after more time with it, but at this point I am really happy with it. Thanks to everyone in this thread for turning me on to vintage receivers.
  By the way I have no use for the tape deck or the rack if anyone is interested PM me.


----------



## scompton

I've come across some very odd turn table auctions recently
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300556669010&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/SHARP-OPTONICA-BOTH-SIDES-PLAY-TURNTABLE-RP-117-W-INSTS-/260781296102?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb7c6c9e6


----------



## 5aces

sluker,welcome aboard the '70's Sansui sound machine.

I am sure that by now you have become familiar with the Sansui 'house' sound.

Soon,a BA 3000 will be powering your Stax...

If you do put some speakers on the amp,leave the front speaker switch to 'off' until it warms up a little.

Conversely,before you power off the amp turn the speaker switch to 'off'-it avoids the speaker 'pop' that sometimes accompanies vintage gear. 

Enjoy your AU 717.


----------



## sluker

5aces, thanks for the heads up.
  I am eventually planning to hook up my B&W CM1's to see if I can get rid of the Adcom GFA 5400 and clear some space. I wonder how the AU-717 wlll compare to the GFA5400?
  
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> sluker,welcome aboard the '70's Sansui sound machine.
> 
> I am sure that by now you have become familiar with the Sansui 'house' sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Sphinxvc and Slurker, very nice looking stuff!


----------



## 5aces

sluker said:


> 5aces, thanks for the heads up.
> I wonder how the AU-717 wlll compare to the GFA5400




Those B&W speakers call for 30-100 watts,so the Sansui at 85 watts is perfect.

Your Adcom is 125 watts,also a good match.

Most of us listen at 1 watt or less,so you can judge easily.

Sansui is often described as 'clear' as opposed to say,Marantz,as 'warm'.

I am only familiar with Adcom preamplifiers.

Do tell what you hear.


----------



## nbourbaki

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> The SX-780.  Effortless power right out of the HPO.  Looks great too, that little blemish on the right side is nothing but glare on some scotch tape where the veneer was peeling.
> 
> It's warm and musical, a very cohesive sound.  The lows are fantastic.  Need some more time to acclimate myself to it though.
> 
> ...


 

 I've always loved the look of the classic Pioneers, came really close to buying many times.  One of these days


----------



## RexAeterna

i did some more cleaning up today on my yamaha r-9 when i gotten home and had some more time listening on my speakers and my akg 240's. at first i thought my akg's sounded bassy compared to my sansui,but after some more listening to different genres(like classical,soundscape,ambient,ect.) i found the bass balanced and it was the source that was bassy. i really am starting to enjoy this monster receiver as much as my sansui. it's also very very quiet on speakers and headphones(only noticable hiss with volume cranked to 3 'o clock). i haven't tried any of my DIY headphones that i put together with 16 awg speaker wire to be used off the speaker taps yet.


----------



## sphinxvc

So have any of you guys bothered speaker tapping these vintage receivers for your orthos?  Or am I just asking for trouble?  From what I understand this thing (the SX-780) puts out 45W per channel.
   
  While I'm enjoying the whole warm, full, musicality of this vintage receiver I'm also hearing a bit of harshness at times.  That's one thing I didn't notice with the Lyr when I tried it this past weekend.  Another thing I've noticed is that it lacks refinement in the soundstage, there isn't much layering or distinction to the micro-details. 
   
  Question: this VU meter, I'm seeing it dance around 1W and jump up to 10W, and then sometimes, even up to 25-50W.  Is this accurate?  Is it attenuated down to 2Ws or so?  I couldn't find the schematic to double check.  
   
  Also, anyone know how the 980s HPO compares to the lower end Pioneer's HPO?  I see one for sale.
   
  On the whole, I'm really liking what this thing is giving me for a $70 investment.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I just picked this up from a local seller off of craigs list.
> I paid $200 and got the receiver, a tape deck (SC-1110) and the Sansui rack it came in. Listening right now with the LCD-2 out of the HP out and it sounds great. The highs are a bit bright but it could be just the fact that I am used to my LF339 which is warmer in comparison. Will report back after more time with it, but at this point I am really happy with it. Thanks to everyone in this thread for turning me on to vintage receivers.
> By the way I have no use for the tape deck or the rack if anyone is interested PM me.


 

 woaah finally another X17 player! my feelings about the x17s are fairly well defined on this thread so im more than glad to have another partner in crime onboard LOLOL! i think alot if not most SS amps will sound bright(er) when compare to a similar tubie so its not that strange. what i do lov about my 517 its lack of vocal sibilancesssss (comparatively) & its very nice combo of smoothness & organic warmth without losing any upper info.
   
  do ensure that the pots & controls are well cleaned & lubricated as a dirty/oxidized pot can be a source of distortion. its ridiculous easy to adjust both DC offset & Bias current so do ensure u set to factory spec at the very least. i enjoyed playing with higher Bias & finally settled on 24mv +-1mv as best sounding on my dynamic cans. on the HE5LE, there isnt that much of a difference. your LCD2 should like a higher than factory setting guessing by my experiences but waddaikno.
   
  do give us more impressions & welcome to the club!
   
  ps: REX nice pickup on the R9 yami bud. lets us know how it sounds comparo to the now gone sansui willya


----------



## Skylab

VU meters are calibrated for 8 ohms, so no, they are not accurate with headphones. 
   
  But I have not used the speaker outs of my vintage receivers.  They are all capable of close to 10 W, or more, via their headphone outs.  Even the HE-6 don't need that.  But my vintage receivers are all 100 wpc into 8 ohms speakers, so they hare pretty powerful.
   
  My Sansui hisses a little with headphones unless I put the -20dB muting on.  But with that it is dead silent, and still plenty of power.  My Pioneers have no hiss at all, though.


----------



## stuckonsound

I came across this on ebay. It doesn't have a headphone out, but maybe speaker taps could be used for some orthos? I like how clean the layout of the tubes and transformers is.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-60s-FISHER-500-B-TUBE-STEREO-RECEIVER-TUNER-AMP-/250818835506?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3a65f7b432#ht_500wt_1156


----------



## RexAeterna

scottiebabie said:


> REX nice pickup on the R9 yami bud. lets us know how it sounds comparo to the now gone sansui willya




thanks. only thing i wasn't too fond of my sansui au-d7 was the ''presence'' knob. presence is for upper midrange and not midrange like other receivers or amps have. just the midrange sounded too focus and sometimes little harsh on a lot. had wonderful highs tho. lows was very tight but lacked the major thump my sansui 5000x had and midrange was more natural on my sansui 5000x. believe or not my sansui 5000x known to sound like tubes to some actually seemed more balanced to my sansui au-d7. both sansui's were very clean sounding as well.

now the yamaha R-9 does everything better than my sansui au-d7. i don't know cause of extra 45w over my au-d7 but there is no need to touch the bass knob ever agian if you have powerful floor towers or subwoofers when playing a game or watching a movie. it's pretty balance tho cause at first i thought it was bass heavy in some cases (or just never realized my speakers could put this much out) but after some listening to some acoustic,folk,classical and more laidback genres i found it was more of the source/track that over-emphisize a certain frequency range.it's as clean sounding as well as my sansui's.

i still love my sansui's even tho i crawled over yamaha's territory. one sansui amp i'll always find to have that special sound and performance is of course my 5000x. i still love everything sonically about this receiver and still like it over the yamaha. the yamaha might not be as pretty as some of the silver face receivers/amps but it sure does have lots of power and sounds really wonderful. only thing i don't like on the yamaha is it runs scary hot in class A mode. i never run it in class A. it stays in class A/B at all times. i don't notice a difference in class A over A/B annyways but i heard you can if you have some good LP's and turntable so i'm on hunt for a killer TT now.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> VU meters are calibrated for 8 ohms, so no, they are not accurate with headphones.
> 
> But I have not used the speaker outs of my vintage receivers.  They are all capable of close to 10 W, or more, via their headphone outs.  Even the HE-6 don't need that.  But my vintage receivers are all 100 wpc into 8 ohms speakers, so they hare pretty powerful.
> 
> My Sansui hisses a little with headphones unless I put the -20dB muting on.  But with that it is dead silent, and still plenty of power.  My Pioneers have no hiss at all, though.


 

 The G4500 Sansui has no hiss at all. Its kind cool looking at the VU meters go way up on the he6 and barely hit the 1W on the D7000 so it kind gives you an idea how much powet the HE6 really needs and hit on dynamic music. My two Pioneer are also no hiss.


----------



## elrod-tom

If you can find the 500-C, it has a fantastic headphone out.  I'm pretty sure that, other than that, it's the same receiver.

  
  Quote: 





stuckonsound said:


> I came across this on ebay. It doesn't have a headphone out, but maybe speaker taps could be used for some orthos? I like how clean the layout of the tubes and transformers is.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-60s-FISHER-500-B-TUBE-STEREO-RECEIVER-TUNER-AMP-/250818835506?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3a65f7b432#ht_500wt_1156


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


skylab said:


> VU meters are calibrated for 8 ohms, so no, they are not accurate with headphones.
> 
> But I have not used the speaker outs of my vintage receivers.  They are all capable of close to 10 W, or more, via their headphone outs.  Even the HE-6 don't need that.  But my vintage receivers are all 100 wpc into 8 ohms speakers, so they hare pretty powerful.
> 
> My Sansui hisses a little with headphones unless I put the -20dB muting on.  But with that it is dead silent, and still plenty of power.  My Pioneers have no hiss at all, though.


 
   
  Ah, ok, gotcha.  I didn't figure it was accurate but it's a neat little meter all the same.
   
  Do you find a harshness to your Pioneers?  I put in an hour's session last night and I was a bit fatigued by the end of it.  Perhaps I've just become spoiled by tubes or perhaps the caps and various internals are past their prime and the output isn't as clean anymore.
   
  Quote:


frank i said:


> The G4500 Sansui has no hiss at all. Its kind cool looking at the VU meters go way up on the he6 and barely hit the 1W on the D7000 so it kind gives you an idea how much powet the HE6 really needs and hit on dynamic music. My two Pioneer are also no hiss.


 

 It is a neat little indirect way of seeing power requirements.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Ah, ok, gotcha.  I didn't figure it was accurate but it's a neat little meter all the same.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah man, I *DIG* VU meters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 No doubt!
   
  Actually I do not find either if my Pioneers harsh at all - surprisingly smooth, in fact.  I was surprised by this, considering I am a tube guy, and these are 1970's solid state!  Both of mine have been recapped, though.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah man, I *DIG* VU meters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You need to try some HK gear, they are surprisingly pleasant, not very powerful but really nice sounding units.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah man, I *DIG* VU meters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Same here. I'm also a tube guy and never really been a huge fan of solid state, but my sx1010 is very clean and smooth sounding. I think it's  solid state at it's best. There no harshness, and not a hint of grain.


----------



## sphinxvc

I guess it's just my unit then.  It is unmistakably fatiguing, the highs are etched and tiring.  Kind of disappointing, I didn't catch it when I demo'd it.  I like listening to my '95 Sony receiver more.  No doubt it needs some recapping.
   
  Shipsupt, how's yours doing?  Fatiguing at all with your 5LEs?


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I guess it's just my unit then.  It is unmistakably fatiguing, the highs are etched and tiring.  Kind of disappointing, I didn't catch it when I demo'd it.  I like listening to my '95 Sony receiver more.  No doubt it needs some recapping.
> 
> Shipsupt, how's yours doing?  Fatiguing at all with your 5LEs?


 

 So far it's been all LCD-2 from the Pioneer except for a very short listen on the 5LE's.  No fatigue issues or harshness up high with them, very warm and lush.  I'll do some listening with the 5LE's this weekend and report back.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I guess it's just my unit then.  It is unmistakably fatiguing, the highs are etched and tiring.  Kind of disappointing, I didn't catch it when I demo'd it.  I like listening to my '95 Sony receiver more.  No doubt it needs some recapping.
> 
> Shipsupt, how's yours doing?  Fatiguing at all with your 5LEs?


 
  i have to say i hear similar type & amt of sibilancesssss with all of my vintages so im not really positive if its just a matter of recapping & replacing old parts. my recent exploits have made me realize the culprit(s) is the volume (or rather high dB volume in my case) combo'd with a treble centric headphone (5LEs to be specific). at a more normal & sane listening vol, this sibilant fatique is much reduced & in most cases, a non factor.
   
  in case i blame the 5LEs, i also hear it at the same passages on the same material with the HD650 with an albeit, much lower irritation factor. perchance u're listening at a different vol on the Sony as opposed to the Pioneer? another factor maybe the type of headout circuitry your Sony has. its more than a smidgen of likelyhood that its powered by opamps rather than off the main outs.
  
  FWIW what i hear at high vols isnt harshness but vocal sibilance to be specific. this doesnt recur with all songs so im pretty sure its material specific. on well recorded stuff, theres NO issue even at ear poppin vols.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> i have to say i hear similar type & amt of sibilancesssss with all of my vintages so im not really positive if its just a matter of recapping & replacing old parts. my recent exploits have made me realize the culprit(s) is the volume (or rather high dB volume in my case) combo'd with a treble centric headphone (5LEs to be specific). at a more normal & sane listening vol, this sibilant fatique is much reduced & in most cases, a non factor.
> 
> in case i blame the 5LEs, i also hear it at the same passages on the same material with the HD650 with an albeit, much lower irritation factor. perchance u're listening at a different vol on the Sony as opposed to the Pioneer? another factor maybe the type of headout circuitry your Sony has. its more than a smidgen of likelyhood that its powered by opamps rather than off the main outs.
> 
> FWIW what i hear at high vols isnt harshness but vocal sibilance to be specific. this doesnt recur with all songs so im pretty sure its material specific. on well recorded stuff, theres NO issue even at ear poppin vols.


 

 Well I don't have an SPL meter handy but I think I'm listening at the same low volumes I've always listened at.  Just going off how loud I've noticed others listen at head-fi meets, I think I'm a low volume listener.  I think I'll get one of hi-flight's XLR-banana adapters and see what I hear out of my Sony's speaker taps.  I already like how it's doing with it's HPO but it's obvious..when I take it to higher volumes..that it doesn't have the necessary juice out of HPO.  My Pioneer needs a time out on craigslist or ebay.  =] 
   
  And yeah, it is vocal sibilance specifically, I agree.
   
  One more thing, my Sony is a 5-channel receiver.  If I speaker tapped it just out of the front R and front L channels am I missing out somewhere since I would think there's signals also going to the back R, L and center channels.  I don't see any option to lock it into stereo mode.


----------



## BmWr75

A buddy at work gave me this Kenwood KR-9050 to check out today.  Just checked the DC offset on both channels.  Left - -11.7 mV, Right = +10.5 mV  Receiver appears to be all original, no restoration.
   
  Will look at zeroing it tomorrow and checking the Bias.
   
  Here are a couple of pictures.  It is in very good cosmetic shape, expect for a broken 3 way toggle switch cover.  Wonder how easy it will be to find one of those?  
   
  Can potential value be talked about in this thread?  I'd like to get some input on a fair offer.


----------



## sphinxvc

Pretty. 
   
  Why is it called "high speed"?


----------



## scottiebabie

sphinxvc hows this for an experiment - atleast to test if your pioneers at fault. try listening to a copy of "Natalie Merchant - Tigerlily (MFSL Gold CD)" at the exact or even higher vol that u hear sibilance/fatigue with other material. to my ears, i find almost zero sibilance issues with this album at any vol that i can handle with my Sansui amp. if its theres no issues, than i can only extrapolate that its more likely than not, just a case of treble centric cans with a less than optimal synergistic amp. just my 2cents ofcos.
   
  as for your Sony AV receiver, im pretty sure the headouts an opamp deal so theres no way no how its gonna output enuff juice for the 5LEs. even an ipod mite power the hifimans but that dont mean its powering it well or anywhere close to its potential. again my 2cent ofcos.


----------



## BmWr75

Never noticed that.  I have no idea.  Maybe because it looks fast just sitting still!


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> A buddy at work gave me this Kenwood KR-9050 to check out today.  Just checked the DC bias on both channels.  Left - -11.7 mV, Right = +10.5 mV  Receiver appears to be all original, no restoration.


 

 im pretty sure the KR9050s kenwoods version of the pioneer 1250/80. if its in full functional condition plus minor cosmetic defects, i'd pay as much as $200-$300 but thats just me. im sure these babies have sold on upay for more.
   
  if by DC bias u mean DC offset, then optimal value should be zero as close as possible. if its Bias (or Quiescent) current, then its very likely to be slightly higher - more likely than not 20-30mv factory spec.
   
  edit: FWIW even though not optimal, a DC offset of 10ish mv isnt much to lose sleep over as anything to 20mv is considered acceptable & up to 50mv, acceptable as safe. OTOH an under Bias'd amp mite sound slow & flabby while a high Bias mite make the amp edgy & grainy so the demo mite not reflect true capabilities. YMMV


----------



## BmWr75

Meant DC offset, corrected the earlier post.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> A buddy at work gave me this Kenwood KR-9050 to check out today.  Just checked the DC offset on both channels.  Left - -11.7 mV, Right = +10.5 mV  Receiver appears to be all original, no restoration.
> 
> Will look at zeroing it tomorrow and checking the Bias.
> 
> ...


 

 Is he giving it to you, or is he having you service it?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> im pretty sure the KR9050s kenwoods version of the pioneer 1250/80. if its in full functional condition plus minor cosmetic defects, i'd pay as much as $200-$300 but thats just me. im sure these babies have sold on upay for more.
> 
> if by DC bias u mean DC offset, then optimal value should be zero as close as possible. if its Bias (or Quiescent) current, then its very likely to be slightly higher - more likely than not 20-30mv factory spec.
> 
> edit: FWIW even though not optimal, a DC offset of 10ish mv isnt much to lose sleep over as anything to 20mv is considered acceptable & up to 50mv, acceptable as safe. OTOH an under Bias'd amp mite sound slow & flabby while a high Bias mite make the amp edgy & grainy so the demo mite not reflect true capabilities. YMMV


 
  There isa one on ebay for 750.00 if you want it LOL too rich for me


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Is he giving it to you, or is he having you service it?


 

 Neither, let me borrow it to see if I want to buy it.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> woaah finally another X17 player! my feelings about the x17s are fairly well defined on this thread so im more than glad to have another partner in crime onboard LOLOL! i think alot if not most SS amps will sound bright(er) when compare to a similar tubie so its not that strange. what i do lov about my 517 its lack of vocal sibilancesssss (comparatively) & its very nice combo of smoothness & organic warmth without losing any upper info.
> 
> do ensure that the pots & controls are well cleaned & lubricated as a dirty/oxidized pot can be a source of distortion. its ridiculous easy to adjust both DC offset & Bias current so do ensure u set to factory spec at the very least. i enjoyed playing with higher Bias & finally settled on 24mv +-1mv as best sounding on my dynamic cans. on the HE5LE, there isnt that much of a difference. your LCD2 should like a higher than factory setting guessing by my experiences but waddaikno.
> 
> ...


 

 I have had my 717 for a week or so now.  The head-out sounds surprisingly good, but doesn't seem to be nearly as powerful as the Pioneer receivers being reported.  No way with the HE-6.  It's in pristine condition cosmetically, but I am considering sending it off for a re-furb / re-cap and may get the resistor(s) changed on the head-out for more power.  I will get the tu-717 tuner in next week.  They look great stacked but will have to start another rack next to my present one to stack them together. I'll try to post some pics once that happens.  I haven't tried it with my speakers yet.  I am waiting on some adaptors for the spring clips from Paul Grzybek.  I may PM you Scottie for a little help with adjusting the bias?


----------



## donunus

heres a vintage amp I found
   

   
   
   
   
  It's pretty decent actually. the headphone jack is slightly better in tonality vs the fiio e9 except for a slight rolloff on the highest octave


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





donunus said:


> heres a vintage amp I found
> 
> It's pretty decent actually. the headphone jack is slightly better in tonality vs the fiio e9 except for a slight rolloff on the highest octave


 

 Ohhhhhh nice, what kind is it? Im liking it similarly to my K9000gx


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> I have had my 717 for a week or so now.  The head-out sounds surprisingly good, but doesn't seem to be nearly as powerful as the Pioneer receivers being reported.  No way with the HE-6.  It's in pristine condition cosmetically, but I am considering sending it off for a re-furb / re-cap and may get the resistor(s) changed on the head-out for more power.  I will get the tu-717 tuner in next week.  They look great stacked but will have to start another rack next to my present one to stack them together. I'll try to post some pics once that happens.  I haven't tried it with my speakers yet.  I am waiting on some adaptors for the spring clips from Paul Grzybek.  I may PM you Scottie for a little help with adjusting the bias?


 

 no worries bigguy be glad to help. much as i would like to be a credithog, the fact is that its Sansui that made the 517/717 muy simple for DC & Bias adjustments. our 2 models share the same service manual & hence the same Bias specs too. all u need are some basic simple tools & ya golden. PM when u're ready.
   
  however woudnt the shop do all this too if u send it out for a refurb? also if u're going to go all out here, consider changing the crappy springloaded binding posts to some modern 5way posts. it does require a bit of fabrication work but its muy simple once the amp is apart. personally i would think twice (&perhaps thrice) before changing the headphone jack's stepdown resistor value. if all u are using is the HE6, then u wouldnt even need a resistor as the HE6 can def handle the main amp out. however if u do have plans to use it with conventional headphones, u mite lose quite a fair bit of vol headroom. eg my HD650 barely makes it to 9 o'clk on the vol dial & trust me when i tell u im not listening softly at that.
   
  again if u are sending it to the shop, they can do a slightly more involved resistor mod that'll make the headphone out to approx 5v 120ohms headout which'll make it about the best compro for most cans. then all yous gotta do is drive the HE6 from the speaker taps with a pigtail adapter cable - something to ponder.
   
  as for as stock headphone output, i dont find it much different from any of my other vintage amps/receivers as most of my cans require about the same vol level. personally i never liked driving my 5LEs from the headout & much prefered the speaker taps. i thought it was cos of the impedance/load mismatch (38ohm-5LE & 220ohm-headout) till Skylab mentioned something about planar/orthos not being affected by impedance & damping factor. if thats the case, im thinking its cos of the restricted current output (thru the headphone jacks 220ohm resistors) as opposed to the unrestricted speaker outs but waddaikno. alls i can says try it via the speaker outs & determine for yourself.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





frank i said:


> There isa one on ebay for 750.00 if you want it LOL too rich for me


 


  O thxs for the heads up Frank but im gonna havta pass. 750 + shipping to boot is jussssssss a tad too rich for my blood too. LOL


----------



## donunus

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Ohhhhhh nice, what kind is it? Im liking it similarly to my K9000gx


 

 Kenwood KR-6600. I checked online and the ones Ive seen look naked. Mine is still a woody


----------



## wualta

"High Speed" refers to the amps in the Kenwood. This was back during the time when everyone was looking for causes and solutions to the problem(s) of "transistor sound". Some fixed on the concept of slew rate and tried to make their circuitry linear up far past 20kHz, giving them ridiculously short rise times. You'll see terms like "high slew rate" and "wideband" tossed about in reviews of the time. Kenwood produced some very high end monoblock amps with model names like L-05/6/7, with preamps to go with them-- very interesting designs, well worth a lookup.
  So whether the Kenwood sounds better than the average ~1979 receiver/amp or not, it means the Kenwood guys were at least listening and trying to improve their products' sound.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> sphinxvc hows this for an experiment - atleast to test if your pioneers at fault. try listening to a copy of "Natalie Merchant - Tigerlily (MFSL Gold CD)" at the exact or even higher vol that u hear sibilance/fatigue with other material. to my ears, i find almost zero sibilance issues with this album at any vol that i can handle with my Sansui amp. if its theres no issues, than i can only extrapolate that its more likely than not, just a case of treble centric cans with a less than optimal synergistic amp. just my 2cents ofcos.
> 
> as for your Sony AV receiver, im pretty sure the headouts an opamp deal so theres no way no how its gonna output enuff juice for the 5LEs. even an ipod mite power the hifimans but that dont mean its powering it well or anywhere close to its potential. again my 2cent ofcos.


 
   
  Listened to Natalie Scottie, there's little to no sibilance, however, the overall presentation is still a bit tiring.  It's subtle, I admit, but over a long session it tends to wear on you.  I don't feel like throwing $450 at a Schiit Lyr so I'm really keen to try the speaker tap route.
   
  The only thing that's stopping me at this point is the confusion between 5-channel and stereo receivers.  
   
  If I speaker tap my 5-channel Sony from the front-left and front-right speakers is it effectively identical to tapping a stereo receiver like the Pioneer?


----------



## scottiebabie

sphinxvc i dont see any particular reason why a 5.1 receiver cant power only the frt L/R. if u must, try yanking out the rest of speakers in the rig 'ceptin only the L/R - im betting there'll be tunes. however there must be a "2channel stereo" selector somewhere on the receiver. if not, the Sonys mite be doing some funny stuff to the spatial info in 5.1 mode but im only guessing here ya.
   
  u know bud, im thinking we both hear quite similarly. i've expressed my views of Pioneers (& most of the rest that i've tried) on quite a number of posts that i find them slightly "lively & tizzy" up top, atleast on my 5LEs. i've only recently realized im a closet basshead with an unconscious predilection for loud listening & (again subconsciously) tried to satiate both by upping the vol which exacerbates the sibilance tendencies on the 5LE. bliv it not, it took me about 15 vintage amps/receivers before i settled on the 'Sui AU-517 as being the most 5LE synergistic - which btw once Bias optimized, im finding its dang fine for most of the rest of my dynamic stuff too. funny thing was that my very 1st vintage amp was the 517! LOL
   
  most of the boyz in this thread having great results via the headout are using HE6s, LCD2s & D7000s. not having access to any of those, i can only guess that our 5LE is less bottom heavy at least stock with no eq - i think Skylab has/had all 4 cans so maybe he can chime in here but to my ears, my 5LE thru headout is discernibly leaner. YMMV


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> sphinxvc i dont see any particular reason why a 5.1 receiver cant power only the frt L/R. if u must, try yanking out the rest of speakers in the rig 'ceptin only the L/R - im betting there'll be tunes. however there must be a "2channel stereo" selector somewhere on the receiver. if not, the Sonys mite be doing some funny stuff to the spatial info in 5.1 mode but im only guessing here ya.
> 
> u know bud, im thinking we both hear quite similarly. i've expressed my views of Pioneers (& most of the rest that i've tried) on quite a number of posts that i find them slightly "lively & tizzy" up top, atleast on my 5LEs. i've only recently realized im a closet basshead with an unconscious predilection for loud listening & (again subconsciously) tried to satiate both by upping the vol which exacerbates the sibilance tendencies on the 5LE. bliv it not, it took me about 15 vintage amps/receivers before i settled on the 'Sui AU-517 as being the most 5LE synergistic - which btw once Bias optimized, im finding its dang fine for most of the rest of my dynamic stuff too. funny thing was that my very 1st vintage amp was the 517! LOL
> 
> most of the boyz in this thread having great results via the headout are using HE6s, LCD2s & D7000s. not having access to any of those, i can only guess that our 5LE is less bottom heavy at least stock with no eq - i think Skylab has/had all 4 cans so maybe he can chime in here but to my ears, my 5LE thru headout is discernibly leaner. YMMV


 

 Oh it definitely will work with just the L and R channels connected.  Problem is I can't find any 2-channel stereo mode, hence my confusion.  Maybe it defaults to stereo mode when the other 3 channels aren't connected?  I'll see if I can find out in the original manual.  
   
  For now, turning up the bass dial a notch and the treble down two helps (on the Pioneer) - still pretty bad though on some tracks.  
   
  Maybe I oughta hunt down a Marantz since they're known for warmth.


----------



## scottiebabie

been there done that with both the Marantz 2250 & SR6000 - pretty similar results as all the rest, to my ears. if u hear anything like me, hunt down a 'Sui AU-517/517 instead. my 5LE+AU-517 rig's sounding pretty sweet with only a (non irritating) hint of sibilance on the lousy stuff. with a notch (+2dB or so) of bass boost, its about as puuuurfect as i've heard without spending any more dosh.
   
  another mod u can do is to 'play' with the amp/receiver's Bias/Quiescent current. personally i've found a low(er) setting 'softens' the amp & vice verse so u mite find some success in tunning out (or atleast reduce) the listening fatigue.
   
  or alternatively, for $200 or so, hunt down a used hifiman HF5 hybrid tube amp.
   
  or do as Scottie does, get a used HD650 for easy listenin esp on the crappy lower bitrate stuff. FWIW the pioneer headout drives the senn wonderfully.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> been there done that with both the Marantz 2250 & SR6000 - pretty similar results as all the rest, to my ears. if u hear anything like me, hunt down a 'Sui AU-517/517 instead. my 5LE+AU-517 rig's sounding pretty sweet with only a (non irritating) hint of sibilance on the lousy stuff. with a notch (+2dB or so) of bass boost, its about as puuuurfect as i've heard without spending any more dosh.
> 
> another mod u can do is to 'play' with the amp/receiver's Bias/Quiescent current. personally i've found a low(er) setting 'softens' the amp & vice verse so u mite find some success in tunning out (or atleast reduce) the listening fatigue.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well good to know.  I'll see if a 517 turns up on CL here, must be rare though.  I'd try to adjust the bias/quiescent current, but I have no know-how of that kind of stuff whatsoever.  For now it's back up on CL for sale or trade.  I heard the Hifiman EF5 hybrid a week ago and didn't like it much, I prefer the Lyr over it.  
  And I'm certainly not going back to the HD650s!


----------



## RexAeterna

@Scottie

also don't completely disreguard the late 1960's to early 1970's sansui x000 receiver series. if you can find a 5000x for 200 or under(since prices for this thing keeps rising quickly) you should look into getting it. it's heavy,looks good,powerful and sounds wonderful. 5000x is one of the most liked sansui's besides the au-xxx series and the big G series. some even prefer the 5000x to bigger pioneers and marantz sonically.

if you find one you should defiantly check it out. you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Zombie_X

Speaking of Sansui, I have a older A-40 model from the 1980's and it sounds nice, though a tad bright.
   
  I also have a mint condition Fisher X-100-B that I am finishing restoring (tubes, caps, resistors, and transformers). So far the restored parts make the amp sound oh so good.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


rexaeterna said:


> @Scottie
> 
> also don't completely disreguard the late 1960's to early 1970's sansui x000 receiver series. if you can find a 5000x for 200 or under(since prices for this thing keeps rising quickly) you should look into getting it. it's heavy,looks good,powerful and sounds wonderful. 5000x is one of the most liked sansui's besides the au-xxx series and the big G series. some even prefer the 5000x to bigger pioneers and marantz sonically.
> 
> if you find one you should defiantly check it out. you won't be disappointed.


 
   
  How's the 5050?  Any experience?


----------



## cifani090

I think it was Skylab that was interested in a 33000 Sansui, and there is one here


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> @Scottie
> 
> also don't completely disreguard the late 1960's to early 1970's sansui x000 receiver series. if you can find a 5000x for 200 or under(since prices for this thing keeps rising quickly) you should look into getting it. it's heavy,looks good,powerful and sounds wonderful. 5000x is one of the most liked sansui's besides the au-xxx series and the big G series. some even prefer the 5000x to bigger pioneers and marantz sonically.
> 
> if you find one you should defiantly check it out. you won't be disappointed.


 
  unless the 'Sui 5000x is substantially different than a 4000, been there done that. not putting anything on it but my 'Sui 4000 dont boogie with the 5LE unfortunetly (v. 517). FWIW i still own the 4000 though its sitting lonely gathering dust ATM. i also tried an earlier 'Sui 350 receiver as well with similar results.
  
   


  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Speaking of Sansui, I have a older A-40 model from the 1980's and it sounds nice, though a tad bright.
> 
> I also have a mint condition Fisher X-100-B that I am finishing restoring (tubes, caps, resistors, and transformers). So far the restored parts make the amp sound oh so good.


 
  unfortunetly the bean counters left their indeligible mark on Sansui in the late 80s when the A-40/50/60s made their entry as mass market combo rack systems. pick one up & the heft (or lack of rather) shows where the corners been cut. with few exceptions, the zenith of Sansui amps were the mid 70s to early 80s higher AU series. none of those amps were ever bright IMO.
   
  the Fisher X100b OTOH were & still is a gem. hope ya getting a woodie case made for it.
  
   


  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I think it was Skylab that was interested in a 33000 Sansui, and there is one here


 

 Oooyaaaa thats the beast aiigt. seriously though, $2600 is a score for it so i hope Skylab grabs it. howeva shippings another $500+!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> unless the 'Sui 5000x is substantially different than a 4000, been there done that. not putting anything on it but my 'Sui 4000 dont boogie with the 5LE unfortunetly (v. 517). FWIW i still own the 4000 though its sitting lonely gathering dust ATM. i also tried an earlier 'Sui 350 receiver as well with similar results.
> 
> 
> Oooyaaaa thats the beast aiigt. seriously though, $2600 is a score for it so i hope Skylab grabs it. howeva shippings another $500+!


 

I didn't even look at shipping, thats a heck of alot of moneyIt only say's it's $72?. I have a Keenwood 9000gx and how would a Marantz 2265B compare with it? Also would a 5000x be better than the 2265B, and is their any other companies make similarly beautiful colored amps (cosmetically) like the Keenwoods?


----------



## RexAeterna

scottiebabie said:


> unless the 'Sui 5000x is substantially different than a 4000, been there done that. not putting anything on it but my 'Sui 4000 dont boogie with the 5LE unfortunetly (v. 517). FWIW i still own the 4000 though its sitting lonely gathering dust ATM. i also tried an earlier 'Sui 350 receiver as well with similar results.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the 5000x might be simuliar looking on the outside but it's different in the inside especially with the driver board upgrades sansui did with the f-6103 boards in the newer series( 5000,5000A,5000x) due to faulty f-1040 boards. i was also actually talking overall about the 5000x with speakers as well besides headphones. lot of speakers pair very well with the 5000x especially if your driving speakers under 4ohms. i can't say how it'll sound with the hifi-man headphones since i never owned or used one before. if i had a loaner from a friend or something then maybe i can shed some thoughts but i don't. everyone i know locally is not into music as much as i am. i am forever alone


----------



## Zombie_X

The wood case mine has is "mint condition" but the internal parts are not.. I had to refinished the wood as it had some water spots but now looks mint. Once it's all done I'll make sure to post some pictures. It will still be months before it's done though as it's being done in my spare time. And yeah the X-100-B is very good and I had snagged it for a most excellent price at $200. When I bought it it sounded great but the inside had bulging caps, oxidized tube sockets, and oxidized rca/speaker connections. I have all those cleaned up now and put new terminals in.
   
  And about that Sansui, it has some problems right now that need to be fixed such as the power button being messed up and the POT needs to be cleaned as it has noise. Some caps are damaged or are going to die. Otherwise the amp is in excellent shape and does sound good. I don't know why mine is so bright but it's not harsh at all. Can't complain as I got it for $30 at a garage sale.
   
  Also I recently got a old Zenith tube radio and had to do some work on it as well. I got it from my grandparents who had it next to the utility tub in their basement . Had a crap ton of water damage to the case and the dial developed noise and the inside of the unit is a tad dusty with some minor oxidation. I love the sound of it though and it's my favorite vintage radio yet. The tubes need to be replaced as a couple of them are nearly dead (test about 20 on my tube tester) while the others test in the 70's.
  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> unfortunetly the bean counters left their indeligible mark on Sansui in the late 80s when the A-40/50/60s made their entry as mass market combo rack systems. pick one up & the heft (or lack of rather) shows where the corners been cut. with few exceptions, the zenith of Sansui amps were the mid 70s to early 80s higher AU series. none of those amps were ever bright IMO.
> 
> the Fisher X100b OTOH were & still is a gem. hope ya getting a woodie case made for it.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> The wood case mine has is "mint condition" but the internal parts are not.. I had to refinished the wood as it had some water spots but now looks mint. Once it's all done I'll make sure to post some pictures. It will still be months before it's done though as it's being done in my spare time. And yeah the X-100-B is very good and I had snagged it for a most excellent price at $200. When I bought it it sounded great but the inside had bulging caps, oxidized tube sockets, and oxidized rca/speaker connections. I have all those cleaned up now and put new terminals in.
> 
> And about that Sansui, it has some problems right now that need to be fixed such as the power button being messed up and the POT needs to be cleaned as it has noise. Some caps are damaged or are going to die. Otherwise the amp is in excellent shape and does sound good. I don't know why mine is so bright but it's not harsh at all. Can't complain as I got it for $30 at a garage sale.
> 
> Also I recently got a old Zenith tube radio and had to do some work on it as well. I got it from my grandparents who had it next to the utility tub in their basement . Had a crap ton of water damage to the case and the dial developed noise and the inside of the unit is a tad dusty with some minor oxidation. I love the sound of it though and it's my favorite vintage radio yet. The tubes need to be replaced as a couple of them are nearly dead (test about 20 on my tube tester) while the others test in the 70's.


 

 Im thinking of buying a Zenith tone register (even though i have a receiver), what would i have to do (besides maybe replacing tubes)? I am new to all this, and i have never soldered, but i can try?


----------



## moodyrn

The fisher x series are a gem. People over at audiokarma says it ,along with other tube integrate amps from that era, produces a sound that haven't been duplicated to this day(whether that's good or bad is in the eye of the beholder). I had to refinish the case on mine as well(fun little project). It mates better with some headphones better than others, but still sounds good on them all. But as a speaker amp is where it really shines, provided you have some efficient speakers. The 25wpc is conservatively rated. I've run them off floor standers with only 91db rating. I now run it off a pair of klipsch epics, and it's a match made in heaven. 200.00 was a very good score on that one. I've seen them go for more than that in non working condition. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I didn't even look at shipping, thats a heck of alot of moneyIt only say's it's $72?. I have a Keenwood 9000gx and how would a Marantz 2265B compare with it? Also would a 5000x be better than the 2265B, and is their any other companies make similarly beautiful colored amps (cosmetically) like the Keenwoods?


 
   
  my ebay says $512.79 shipping - prolly cos im in canuckistan! LOL. $2600 + $72 shippings a score & a snag!!! quick someone grab it - im being totally serious here!
   
  for those not in the know, the 'Sui G33000 isnt just any old monster receiver. its the T-REX of monster receivers! & mucho rare at that. though rated at 'only' 300wpc@8ohms, they're suppos to measure at almost 400wpc!!! if u look carefully at the pics on ebay, checkout the size of the trafos & power caps on the separate amp section. yes folks, this T-REX comes in 2 pieces & weigh over 110lbs!!! i'd be like white on rice on it if i had the disposible cash. too bad i need food & shelter.....
  
   


  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> the 5000x might be simuliar looking on the outside but it's different in the inside especially with the driver board upgrades sansui did with the f-6103 boards in the newer series( 5000,5000A,5000x) due to faulty f-1040 boards. i was also actually talking overall about the 5000x with speakers as well besides headphones. lot of speakers pair very well with the 5000x especially if your driving speakers under 4ohms. i can't say how it'll sound with the hifi-man headphones since i never owned or used one before. if i had a loaner from a friend or something then maybe i can shed some thoughts but i don't. everyone i know locally is not into music as much as i am. i am forever alone


 

 yup was refering to driving the 5LE orthos. otherwise my 4000 sounds great driving my vintage pro-linears.


----------



## singh

^^ for me shipping is $1386.33 !!
  but that sure is compelling ....G33000 , is on top of them all. let see how much it goes for


----------



## BmWr75

Got the Teac A-3300SX 2T back from the shop yesterday.  Recording the album Robin Trower - Bridge of Sighs to tape at 15 ips now.


----------



## wualta

Ah, the classic 3300 TEAC "deuce". Yours has the newfangled cueing lever. Ain't it great?


----------



## Skylab

BmWr75, beautiful TEAC - and your whole rig looks sweet. I love my Teac reel deck!

Scottie - you are right, the HE-5LE has a bit of a hot treble. Much more so than the LCD-2, that's for sure. I think that's what some folks are hearing. I don't hear fizziness on my SX1980 or 1250 with either my headphones or with my B&W speakers. Actually I have been surprised how smooth the big Pioneers are. I expected some 70's solid state nasties when I started down this path, especially being mostly a tube guy, but really have not experienced that. Still, I would not pair a vintage receiver with a bright headphone, or one with a hot treble, probably.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Ah, the classic 3300 TEAC "deuce". Yours has the newfangled cueing lever. Ain't it great?


 

 Best I can tell, all the lever does is allow you to hear the recording at very high speed during rewind and fast forward.  Guess that is useful if you are looking for a blank section in the tape.


----------



## wualta

Yup, that's exactly what it's for. The pro machines the TEAC is a copy of had ways of partially defeating the tape lifters so you could, with practice, find a spot on the tape while shuttling back and forth at high speed. It was the one thing the 3300 lacked, so they came up with a simple way to tuck it in. Which is why we loved TEAC back in the day. A practiced thumb could substitute on the leverless 3300. 
   
  But I meant to be asking if you thought the TEAC itself was great, not just the cue lever.


----------



## cifani090

***Skylab***
  Are you going for that Sansui?


----------



## Meewoo

I have been a lurker for the website and this forum for a long time. You guys just "itched" me for my first post. 
  My daily use home headphone is AKG Q701 and my speaker is KEF Q90.
  I want to say that vintage stuff is a totally sold to me.
   

  Luxman R-1120a and Q701

  Luxman 1120a & R-113

  Au-517 & TU-717

  Yamaha CR-1020
   
  IMHO, r-1120a sounds best for me, silk-smooth with wide sound stage. CR-1020 & AU-517 sounds second. But I like Sui most when I listen to Rap, hip-hop and other bass heavy music. Sui just has the authority in bass. Luxman r-113 has some veil to me, mid-low seems spreading in all range. I totally agree you gurus' opinions about Sui and Pioneer (I have Pionner SX1050 & SA-6800), I just want to share my 2 cents about Luxman and Yammy.
   
  IMHO, every vintage stuff will sound differently even they are the same model. I have one Sansui 5000a and one 5000x, the 5000x sounds a lot drier than 5000a. I think recapping will solve the problem since 5000x is in bad condition. If you buy vintage stuff, you'd better remember that your stuff may sounds totally different from people's here. 
   
  Scottie, please add me to your Sansui x17 club, your opinion on Sui is priceless to me!! And thank you Skylab, you opinion about dedicated headphone amp and vintage stuff make me investing the Vintage stuff!! And thanks all members here  for sharing your thoughts!!!


----------



## cifani090

That Luxman R-1120a looks very solidly built


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> That Luxman R-1120a looks very solidly built


 


  Thanks!
  Its building quality is better than Pioneer sx-1050 but I have trouble to find the bulb for front dial. The Sui AU-517 is built like tank!!!!


----------



## sluker

So I have been listening to the Sansui AU-717 for a few days now, exclusively with the LCD-2's.
  My first impressions still stand, this amp is brighter than both the LF339 and the M-stage (w/class A mod).
  On sibilant recordings the ssss's are pronounced to the point of being distracting. However with most of my rock, jaz and classical once my ears get accustomed to the sound I barely notice it.
  The bass is tight and punchy and much better than the M-stage, but not as clean as the LF339. 
  The volume pot has some nose in the right channel when attenuating, but dead silent otherwise.
  The one thing I have noticed that bothers me and I wonder if there is a fix for, is that when Muting is "on" and the volume is above 80db there is a slight distortion at the very top of the mids. This is most pronounced when listening to guitar centric rock music, it is annoying to the point where I actually turn down the volume (god forbid). However, this goes away when mute is off, so it is not a major issue. I would like to be able to use the mute feature because it provides more control of the volume, however if i use a sources with volume control it is a non issue.
  Question: is there a way to fix this?
  Overall I am quite happy with this purchase and I am willing to spend some money getting it tuned up. How would I go about finding someone to tune this thing up? DC, Bias, perhaps new caps...etc. I live in LA so I would prefer someone local as to avoid shipping charges. 
  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Zombie_X

I don't really have speakers for it yet but was looking to get some in the future. I wonder what kind would mate best with them. I was almost looking to see if Audioengine would send me some A2's, but only use two lefts channels. I bet they would sound incredible on this amp.
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The fisher x series are a gem. People over at audiokarma says it ,along with other tube integrate amps from that era, produces a sound that haven't been duplicated to this day(whether that's good or bad is in the eye of the beholder). I had to refinish the case on mine as well(fun little project). It mates better with some headphones better than others, but still sounds good on them all. But as a speaker amp is where it really shines, provided you have some efficient speakers. The 25wpc is conservatively rated. I've run them off floor standers with only 91db rating. I now run it off a pair of klipsch epics, and it's a match made in heaven. 200.00 was a very good score on that one. I've seen them go for more than that in non working condition. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.


----------



## BmWr75

Aren't A2s powered speakers?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


stuckonsound said:


> I came across this on ebay. It doesn't have a headphone out, but maybe speaker taps could be used for some orthos? I like how clean the layout of the tubes and transformers is.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-60s-FISHER-500-B-TUBE-STEREO-RECEIVER-TUNER-AMP-/250818835506?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3a65f7b432#ht_500wt_1156


 

 You should be aware there's been discussion recently about using orthos with transformer-coupled tube amps like vintage Fishers - it may endanger the transformers.
   
  Skylab got the ball rolling by repeating a warning from Musical Paradise - start there if you want to read the whole exchange. PhaedrusX explained the electronic principles behind the problem, and kwkarth has been providing advice and help. The simple solution -- to add a resistor in parallel with the headphone's pigtail -- will work but will also absorb most of the amp's output, which diminishes the point to using speaker terminals in the first place.
   
  I was happy with the sound the X-202-B got out of my HE-6, but I am disinclined to shorten its useful life, so once again I am sizing up what's available in amplifiers and vintage receivers.


----------



## cifani090

I trading a pair of B&W DM610is and a Rotel 1062 for a  Sansui AU-999 a pair of Omega 5" Monitors. He also has a Onkyo TX 4500 MKII Receiver but it needs a bit of work, but it works and a Dual 1209 turntable. I really want the Sansui and Omega's but the two others are also pretty nice also


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





sluker said:


> So I have been listening to the Sansui AU-717 for a few days now, exclusively with the LCD-2's.
> My first impressions still stand, this amp is brighter than both the LF339 and the M-stage (w/class A mod).
> On sibilant recordings the ssss's are pronounced to the point of being distracting. However with most of my rock, jaz and classical once my ears get accustomed to the sound I barely notice it.
> The bass is tight and punchy and much better than the M-stage, but not as clean as the LF339.
> ...


 

  There is a guy on e-bay selling AU-xxx re-furb services.  He has various levels, but his main one is $250 with a long list of what he does for that price.  I don't know anything about him, but I have an au-717 also and might check with him eventually.  He lists a phone number in his ad.  Just do an e-bay search for au-717 and he will pop up on the list.  He also sells re-built boards for DIY types - pop it in and connect the cables and you are done.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I trading a pair of B&W DM610is and a Rotel 1062 for a  Sansui AU-999 a pair of Omega 5" Monitors. He also has a Onkyo TX 4500 MKII Receiver but it needs a bit of work, but it works and a Dual 1209 turntable. I really want the Sansui and Omega's but the two others are also pretty nice also


 


  For me, Rotel 1062 & B&W 610i are easier to find than Sui AU-999. I didn't own the 1062, but I have NAD stuff. My Sui AU-517 sounds better than NAD 7240PE &7400. Just my 2'C.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sluker said:


> So I have been listening to the Sansui AU-717 for a few days now, exclusively with the LCD-2's.
> My first impressions still stand, this amp is brighter than both the LF339 and the M-stage (w/class A mod).
> On sibilant recordings the ssss's are pronounced to the point of being distracting. However with most of my rock, jaz and classical once my ears get accustomed to the sound I barely notice it.
> The bass is tight and punchy and much better than the M-stage, but not as clean as the LF339.
> ...


 



 Did you check http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005
  I think deoxide will help you lot!


----------



## Zombie_X

Yes they are, I use them with my PC. I was looking to either get two of the left channel speakers (A2) or two of the left channel for the A5's. I had even considered trying to find a left channel by itself.
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Aren't A2s powered speakers?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> For me, Rotel 1062 & B&W 610i are easier to find than Sui AU-999. I didn't own the 1062, but I have NAD stuff. My Sui AU-517 sounds better than NAD 7240PE &7400. Just my 2'C.


 

 Duh, but vintage stuff is cooler to look at and is better sounding for the $


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Yes they are, I use them with my PC. I was looking to either get two of the left channel speakers (A2) or two of the left channel for the A5's. I had even considered trying to find a left channel by itself.


 
  Are you limited on speaker size?  If not, there are lots of vintage alternatives, Dynaco A25 for example, which can be had in restored condition for ~$150/pair.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Duh, but vintage stuff is cooler to look at and is better sounding for the $


 

 Sorry, I though you were trading *your AU-999* for Rotel.  Yeah, vintage stuff is definitely keeper!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Sorry, I though you were trading *your AU-999* for Rotel.  Yeah, vintage stuff is definitely keeper!


 

 I know better


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





sluker said:


> So I have been listening to the Sansui AU-717 for a few days now, exclusively with the LCD-2's.
> My first impressions still stand, this amp is brighter than both the LF339 and the M-stage (w/class A mod).
> On sibilant recordings the ssss's are pronounced to the point of being distracting. However with most of my rock, jaz and classical once my ears get accustomed to the sound I barely notice it.
> The bass is tight and punchy and much better than the M-stage, but not as clean as the LF339.
> ...


 

 hmmmm am thinking of the best way to reflect what u're hearing witout being too defensive. anyways at the risk of sounding like a sansui shrill, i have to admit im a tad puzzled as wat u're hearing off the 717 is almost the opp of what i hear. i suppos the 517717s can be considered 'brightttttt & sssssssibilant' depending on which side of the mountain ya standing on, however (& to my ears) i can hardly call it anything but. of all the amps i've heard & tried, i found my 517 to have the least of those traits even on my trebleeesssssssz happysssssssz HE5LEs - im sure sphinxvc can attest to that as he's finding out on his SX780+5LE combo.
   
  ok now lets try the KISS elementary deduction session:
   
  1.since ya hearing static noise on the pots, im guessing your 717 hasnt been cleaned nor lubed. take off the cover & go to town wit a good contact cleaner wit lube (Caigs Deoxit are the most well regarded). give all controls & pots a good soaking of the goodstuff. also clean all contact points eg,RCA jacks & dont forget to clean&lube the headphone jack too (i use Deoxit soaked q-tips even on solder joints - u'd be surprized at how nuch grunge's on them. btw let it all dry for a day or 2 before flipping it on for a listening session.
   
  2.the high mid distortion ya hearing mite well be a sign of a high Bias setting as its been my experience that on the 517 at least, the higher the Bias the more 'aggressive' & perhaps edgy&grainy the mids. so the next thang to do is to adjust your 717 back to factory spec at the very least. u can download a copy of the service manual online for the best price of.....free - cant beat that! if u have problems deciphering the manual, i'll be glad to of some assisstance so PM if u need instructions on adjusting DC offset & Bias.
   
  3.lastly & hopefully not in your case, brightness, sibilance & other such distortion are an indication of bad or failing caps, resistors, etc. perchance is your unit from socal or worse, NV/AZ/NM & so on? reason's cos as as we all know, heat is the enemy. so if your unit has spent its entire life in high desert heat or worse, hi heat with hi humidity, then its more than likely your unit has excelerated thermal wear & tear. take a good look at the innards for such signs when youre deoxit'in.

 thats all i can tellya for now. do the above 1+2 before making any drastic conclusions - u mite be surprized
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> IMHO, r-1120a sounds best for me, silk-smooth with wide sound stage. CR-1020 & AU-517 sounds second. But I like Sui most when I listen to Rap, hip-hop and other bass heavy music. Sui just has the authority in bass. Luxman r-113 has some veil to me, mid-low seems spreading in all range. I totally agree you gurus' opinions about Sui and Pioneer (I have Pionner SX1050 & SA-6800), I just want to share my 2 cents about Luxman and Yammy.
> 
> IMHO, every vintage stuff will sound differently even they are the same model. I have one Sansui 5000a and one 5000x, the 5000x sounds a lot drier than 5000a. I think recapping will solve the problem since 5000x is in bad condition. If you buy vintage stuff, you'd better remember that your stuff may sounds totally different from people's here.
> 
> Scottie, please add me to your Sansui x17 club, your opinion on Sui is priceless to me!! And thank you Skylab, you opinion about dedicated headphone amp and vintage stuff make me investing the Vintage stuff!! And thanks all members here  for sharing your thoughts!!!


 

 ya in like flint babie! LOL welcome to the 'Sui X17 club! nice to know we feel the same about the bottom/bass heft our 517 has. ontop, compared with the rest of the vintages i've had/heard, its also the smoothest & most organic sounding amp that even manages to tame the ssssssssbilance of my 5LE - that be no mean feat i tellya!
   
  not surprizingly, a high end vintage Luxman is one of the amps i've been wanting to tryout for the longest. alas ladyluck's not be too kind to me as i've havnt been able to track one down locally. howeva i've no doubt its a silky smooth beast. 
   
  question for ya: how ya feel about the synergy btwn the 517 & AKG K/Q701? i hear 701s are lean & bright so does the 517 strengthens those weakness as oppose to all the other amps u have & heard? asking cos a K701/2 mite be next on the agenda so any impressions & opinions is greatly valued.


----------



## Meewoo

Hi, Scottie, Thanks lot!  I am proud x17 club member!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  IMHO, I saw people bashing Q701 in other forum just saying it's another rebadged K701 or K702. I don't own K701 or K702, but I can definitely say the bass on Q701 is good enough.  Maybe it's because I am not a bass-head. Believe or not, the Q701 needs burn-in for about 150 hours. Right of box, the Q701 just occasionally pieced your ears and sometimes loses the bass, I couldn't used it for 2 hour straight. But now, the high just tamed and bass extended. It's really a enjoy for me. Oh, I have HD650 too, but I just don't like the Sennheiser veil though I enjoy the relax sound very much. The Q701 is very revealing also, I can hear vintage stuff scratches that I can't hear from speakers. Normally, I turn the bass control to 2db when I use Q701. That's just perfect for me. Sometime, I also turn the treble to -2db for long listening.  The Au-517 is perfectly paired with Q701, The bass is tight, full of energy, and you are right, "most organic sounding".  I have no complain with these combo. If let me choose weakness, they have a narrow sound-stage than Luxman. But Luxman lacks the power & energy of Sui. Do any brands have the combination of Luxman and Sui, smooth, sweet, energitical , powerful???


----------



## Meewoo

My Rotel RX-2001 & RX-304

  The RX-2001 is built like tank, all knobs and buttons are metal (no plastics). Inside is total mess, wires all over the place like spider web. I do find that high power receivers have tighter bass than lower power siblings, and sound seems more controlled. IMHO, Rotel rX-2001 sounds little step ahead my SX-1050.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> hmmmm am thinking of the best way to reflect what u're hearing witout being too defensive. anyways at the risk of sounding like a sansui shrill, i have to admit im a tad puzzled as wat u're hearing off the 717 is almost the opp of what i hear. i suppos the 517717s can be considered 'brightttttt & sssssssibilant' depending on which side of the mountain ya standing on, however (& to my ears) i can hardly call it anything but. of all the amps i've heard & tried, i found my 517 to have the least of those traits even on my trebleeesssssssz happysssssssz HE5LEs - im sure sphinxvc can attest to that as he's finding out on his SX780+5LE combo.


 

 I have a confession to make.  I posted a while back that I didn't think the 717 head-out was as powerful as other vintages....  the -20db mute was on!  I am not used to having that feature, so didn't check.  My face is red, but the power ouput on the 717 head-out is huge.  With my HE-6 I can only go to 9 o'clock or so on the volume!  (with mute off duh!!!).  With HD800 and LCD-2 it only takes a tick or two to get there.  And....  I am listening now after a good hour of warm up and SQ is amazing!  I am thrilled with this purchase!
   
  I am not hearing any brightness or sibilance either.  I am with you, something is amiss with Sluker's 517.  Just don't think anyone could call the Sansui sound bright if all is working well.  Quite the opposite.  Bass is wonderful....  never heard the HD800s with so much bass!  It is sounding so good that I am going to hold off on any kind of re-furb or re-cap.  I guess I got lucky with this one.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





davo50 said:


> I have a confession to make.  I posted a while back that I didn't think the 717 head-out was as powerful as other vintages....  the -20db mute was on!  I am not used to having that feature, so didn't check.  My face is red, but the power ouput on the 717 head-out is huge.  With my HE-6 I can only go to 9 o'clock or so on the volume!  (with mute off duh!!!).  With HD800 and LCD-2 it only takes a tick or two to get there.  And....  I am listening now after a good hour of warm up and SQ is amazing!  I am thrilled with this purchase!
> 
> I am not hearing any brightness or sibilance either.  I am with you, something is amiss with Sluker's 517.  Just don't think anyone could call the Sansui sound bright if all is working well.  Quite the opposite.  Bass is wonderful....  never heard the HD800s with so much bass!  It is sounding so good that I am going to hold off on any kind of re-furb or re-cap.  I guess I got lucky with this one.


 

  

 My Sui AU-517 sounds more powerful than my SX-1050. It has a lot of headroom for sure.
  It sounds warm or neutral but absolutely not bright, even on my AKG Q701. I say neutral since my Sui 5000a is warmer and mellower than my 517. I do agree that there is something wrong with Sluker's 517.


----------



## sluker

Thanks scottiebabie,
  I will definitely do 1 & 2. Hopefully that will fix any static I am hearing from the volume pots.
   
  In regards to sibilance, I think a big factor in what I hear is my frame of reference. Since I was mostly using the LF339 with the LCD's before I got the AU -717 I was used to the smooth tube sound which may not be as neutral as I think it is.
  As I mentioned, I only notice the sssssibilance on certain recordings so I would not [size=11.0pt]necessarily attribute it to the AU-717.[/size] However, I really want to hear it with my HE5-LE's before I decide if it's a keeper, hopefully I will get them back in the next week or so which will give me time for a proper cleaning of the sansui.
  In regards to the upper mids distortion, I only hear that with the -20db mute on. So I do not anticipate it to be a problem as I am mostly using the amp with the mute setting in off. 
   

  
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> hmmmm am thinking of the best way to reflect what u're hearing witout being too defensive. anyways at the risk of sounding like a sansui shrill, i have to admit im a tad puzzled as wat u're hearing off the 717 is almost the opp of what i hear. i suppos the 517717s can be considered 'brightttttt & sssssssibilant' depending on which side of the mountain ya standing on, however (& to my ears) i can hardly call it anything but. of all the amps i've heard & tried, i found my 517 to have the least of those traits even on my trebleeesssssssz happysssssssz HE5LEs - im sure sphinxvc can attest to that as he's finding out on his SX780+5LE combo.
> 
> ok now lets try the KISS elementary deduction session:
> 
> ...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Hi, Scottie, Thanks lot!  I am proud x17 club member!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  an AKG D701/2 is on my must-try-before-i-die list but just never got round to doing anything mainly cos i hear its bright & lean. im super glad to hear it jives well with the 'Sui so i'll make an effort to grab a pair - hopefully nicely recabled. heh
   
  to be honest, i dont hear any soundstage deficiencies with any of my amp. im quite pleased with the stage im getting outta the 5LE & HD650s. i recently fine-tuned the Pioneer SA7500 & i must say while not optimal for the 5LEs, its very very good with the HD650 - as good as i've heard it & better than a opa627 PPAv2 i once had. drives the 650 quick, snappy with full mids & detailed highs. i certainly dont hear the dreaded senn veil but i do hear the 650s rolloffs. amazing what good amplification can do to the phat senns.
   
  nice rotels btw. i was eyeing a rotel ra1412 a few months back when it came on the local CL. passed on it cos the seller want fairly large coin but mainly cos i couldnt justify it to the missus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





davo50 said:


> I have a confession to make.  I posted a while back that I didn't think the 717 head-out was as powerful as other vintages....  the -20db mute was on!  I am not used to having that feature, so didn't check.  My face is red, but the power ouput on the 717 head-out is huge.  With my HE-6 I can only go to 9 o'clock or so on the volume!  (with mute off duh!!!).  With HD800 and LCD-2 it only takes a tick or two to get there.  And....  I am listening now after a good hour of warm up and SQ is amazing!  I am thrilled with this purchase!
> 
> I am not hearing any brightness or sibilance either.  I am with you, something is amiss with Sluker's 517.  Just don't think anyone could call the Sansui sound bright if all is working well.  Quite the opposite.  Bass is wonderful....  never heard the HD800s with so much bass!  It is sounding so good that I am going to hold off on any kind of re-furb or re-cap.  I guess I got lucky with this one.


 
   
  LOL! i did a coupla WTFs!?? when u said that the 717s headout wasnt juiced up! yaaaa mutings one of those options a 717 has over my 517. if noting else i'd still do a DC offset & Bias adjustments if i were u. perhaps once settled, u mite wanna crack open the case & hookup a coupla DMMs & 'tune' the Bias to your liking (on the fly) - its pretty fun & the 517/717 has loads of headroom for that.
   
  while i have no doubt the 717 boogies with the HE6, are u saying the the 717 plays nice with your HD800 as well as the WA22? would love to hear more about your escapades if u should so desire to share it with us. afterall, we're still a club of only 4 (&1s crippled)...for now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





sluker said:


> Thanks scottiebabie,
> I will definitely do 1 & 2. Hopefully that will fix any static I am hearing from the volume pots.
> 
> In regards to sibilance, I think a big factor in what I hear is my frame of reference. Since I was mostly using the LF339 with the LCD's before I got the AU -717 I was used to the smooth tube sound which may not be as neutral as I think it is.
> ...


 


  come to think of it, the 'distortion' u're hearing with the mute on driving the LCD2 is prolly the amp clipping. afterall, the LCD2s aint exactly a easy load to begin with plus the 220ohms stepdowns do suck quite a bit of juice + the -20dB.....well im sure u getting ma drift. regardless, do 1+2 so's u know u have a spec'd amp. but for sure, the 517/717 isnt on the bright nor lean side of the equation. & sibilancessss on the dark LCD2 is certainly unexpected. regardless, cant speak for the LF339 tubie but theres def an issue if u find your 717 brighter & more sibilant than the M-Stage. IMO ofcos


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Yes they are, I use them with my PC. I was looking to either get two of the left channel speakers (A2) or two of the left channel for the A5's. I had even considered trying to find a left channel by itself.


 

 The left channels are the ones with the amps inside.  However, I think they have an A4 that is un-amplified, for your type of usage with external amp.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> LOL! i did a coupla WTFs!?? when u said that the 717s headout wasnt juiced up! yaaaa mutings one of those options a 717 has over my 517. if noting else i'd still do a DC offset & Bias adjustments if i were u. perhaps once settled, u mite wanna crack open the case & hookup a coupla DMMs & 'tune' the Bias to your liking (on the fly) - its pretty fun & the 517/717 has loads of headroom for that.
> 
> while i have no doubt the 717 boogies with the HE6, are u saying the the 717 plays nice with your HD800 as well as the WA22? would love to hear more about your escapades if u should so desire to share it with us. afterall, we're still a club of only 4 (&1s crippled)...for now


 

 The 717 sounds really nice with all of them, but not as refined sounding as the WA22 (which is as I expected.) Especially with the HD800.  Just more detail, lush tone. and transparency with the WA22 but the 717 has really good bass which warms up the HD800 nicely.   With the LCD-2 it comes a lot closer.  With the right tubes the wa22 is very good with the LCD-2, but the 717 comes darn close.  I could easily use it as my main amp with the 2s.  But HE-6 really shines...  loves that power. 
   
  I definitely want to adjust the offset & bias.  I'll be pm-ing you soon when I get some time to work on it, I appreciate your offer to help!


----------



## scottiebabie

no worries bud. be glad to help a fellow 'Suihead as we x17'fiers be rare in these parts! LOL. plus im totally stoked my hearings isnt all #$%^# damaged from all the loud listening. i knew my 517 were 'special' but waddaikno - i certainly cant state that with any degree of certainly due of amp inaccessibility & inexperience & im far from having golden ears unlike some of my fellow gearheads.
   
  that said, my now finely 'tuned' Pioneer SA-7500 sounding seriously fine driving the HD650. where the 517s heftier & fuller, the SA7500s punchier, quicker, airy & seemingly flushes out upper microdetails to the fore. very nice indeed & makes a good companion to the heftier & smoother 517.
   
  i have 2 'head'amps to suit different moods & different cans. cant say i aint stoked!
   
  ps:do keepup with the impressions ya


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> that said, my now finely 'tuned' Pioneer SA-7500 sounding seriously fine driving the HD650. *where the 517s heftier & fuller, the SA7500s punchier, quicker, airy & seemingly flushes out upper microdetails to the fore.* very nice indeed & makes a good companion to the heftier & smoother 517.


 


  Wow, Scottie, you really know how to describe the sound!!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




My Pioneer sx-1050 & sa-6800 sounds as your description. I would say my reotels sound between Sui and Pioneer.
   
  Are there anyone can describe the Yammy , Kenny and Sony house sound? I would say Kenny is recess, dark and relax.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> Wow, Scottie, you really know how to describe the sound!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i wouldn't say kenwood sounds dark or recessed. depends on the speakers and room most likely. yamaha i have no idea on it's so called ''house'' sound. i just recently gotten a 1985 yamaha r-9 class A receiver. very powerful,spacious,natural response,digs insanely deep in the bass department with massive impact if the track has it and if driving powerful PA speakers,subwoofers or floor towers due to it being able to push-pull large amounts of current.

i also would have to say it depends on room size and acoustics as well. i pretty much have my room treated to sound almost completely dead with carpet on my walls,floor and ceiling. if your talking headphone wise it depends as well i assume. i barely listen to headphones much and only own a pair of akg 240's and some DIY custom headphones with 16 gauge copper speaker wire for speaker terminal hook-ups.


----------



## mrsal

i have an old onkyo tx 80 if that counts, im gonna take it to lake electronics for repair some time


----------



## cifani090

I got my Sansui AU-999 in black metal (not wood), a pair of red headphones (will post model later), pair of speakers (forgot brand), and an Onkyo MKii will a bit of work needed to be done, but works. I will post picture's later


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i wouldn't say kenwood sounds dark or recessed. depends on the speakers and room most likely. yamaha i have no idea on it's so called ''house'' sound. i just recently gotten a 1985 yamaha r-9 class A receiver. very powerful,spacious,natural response,digs insanely deep in the bass department with massive impact if the track has it and if driving powerful PA speakers,subwoofers or floor towers due to it being able to push-pull large amounts of current.
> 
> i also would have to say it depends on room size and acoustics as well. i pretty much have my room treated to sound almost completely dead with carpet on my walls,floor and ceiling. if your talking headphone wise it depends as well i assume. i barely listen to headphones much and only own a pair of akg 240's and some DIY custom headphones with 16 gauge copper speaker wire for speaker terminal hook-ups.


 
  Rex, do you prefer R-9 to Sui you traded? My Yammy CR-1020 has enough bass, but not in the same league with AU-517. I think 80's analog products are more bass oriented, my Luxman r-113 has more "uncontrolled" bass than R-1120a. All post on AK didn't mention 70's Yammy have "insanely deep in the bass department with massive impact".
   
  I know room dimension and apace will affect sound, but using headphone can reduce this effect.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I forgot to ask vintage Marantz house sound, are there marantz fans can chime in? I do think it has more characteristics than warm?
   
  I don't know whether 80's NAD belongs to "vintage" category, NAD can be a good headphone amp.  But I can safely say that 21st century NAD has no enough juice for phones output. Can any one tell me when the phone ports of receivers lose the juice??


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I got my Sansui AU-999 in black metal (not wood), a pair of red headphones (will post model later), pair of speakers (forgot brand), and an Onkyo MKii will a bit of work needed to be done, but works. I will post picture's later


 

 Congratulation to your Sui!!
   
  Could you post the nude pic of Au-999? Just want to compare it with AU-x17.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mrsal said:


> i have an old onkyo tx 80 if that counts, im gonna take it to lake electronics for repair some time


 


  I do think 80's products still have enough juice for headphone ports. My NAD, Carver, Denon drive my Q701 without sweat. But they just don't have the look of "vintage" (the meter, lights, big knob and shinning face plate).


----------



## RexAeterna

@Meewoo

yes i actually do. i traded my sansui au-d7 amp which was great amp but i gotten curious on yamaha and found a local that offered me his R-9 for it. i know sansui has more value to it but value is not much important to me. it's either a keeper or not. if not i try to get a trade out of it instead of selling usually.

it might not be shiny and fancy as lot of earlier 70's silver face receivers but it sounds really wonderful and love the variable loudness dial. if you have a pair of powerful floor towers or floor speakers with powerful woofers your gonna feel that heavy bass and don't even need to touch the bass knob at all. it just has that torque needed to bring out the sub-bass frequencies . it's really an impressive receiver. i think personally as well that the red dial lights are a nice touch. if your looking for one i think you can easily spot one for 100 bucks or less in mint condition since the 1980's R series are not as sought after as the older CR series. i like mine so much with short amount of time i had with it i think i might try to find another one to purchase over the weekend.


----------



## Meewoo

@Rex
   
  Have you tried 80's stasis Nakamichi? I have a SR-2A, it's the best "loose" and deep bass I ever heard. But I am not basshead, so it's collecting dust in the closet now. I agree with you, it's kind of luck to find "your" sound.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> @Rex
> 
> Have you tried 80's stasis Nakamichi? I have a SR-2A, it's the best "loose" and deep bass I ever heard. But I am not basshead, so it's collecting dust in the closet now. I agree with you, it's kind of luck to find "your" sound.




i never heard any nakamichi receivers/amps before. i know they make some of the best tape decks around. now i'm curious on them. i'm not basshead either i just use sub-bass/bass as a power check to see how much power can be drawn for fun since woofers or sub-woofers use up most of power in a pair of speakers. i wouldn't say it's bloated or sloppy either. it's pretty tight but wasn't as tight as my au-d7 i had but it defiantly didn't bring out the deep sub-bass like my current yamaha does. if you find one around you should check it out. i personally tried getting an CR-1000 yamaha but by time i had extra cash for it on my local CL, it was gone.


----------



## nbourbaki

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> @Rex
> 
> Have you tried 80's stasis Nakamichi? I have a SR-2A, it's the best "loose" and deep bass I ever heard. But I am not basshead, so it's collecting dust in the closet now. I agree with you, it's kind of luck to find "your" sound.


 

 There was one for sale a couple of years ago not more than 5 miles from where I live.  I missed the end of auction due to travel for work.  I bought a brand new Parasound Halo A51 instead.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> My Rotel RX-2001 & RX-304
> 
> The RX-2001 is built like tank, all knobs and buttons are metal (no plastics). Inside is total mess, wires all over the place like spider web. I do find that high power receivers have tighter bass than lower power siblings, and sound seems more controlled. IMHO, Rotel rX-2001 sounds little step ahead my SX-1050.


 

  
  Rotels have a nice tonal signature.  Smooth, transparent but not as bright as pioneer, almost a laid back presence overall.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





mrsal said:


> i have an old onkyo tx 80 if that counts, im gonna take it to lake electronics for repair some time


 


  personally if the onkyo's on the fritz, i wouldnt bother sending it the shop. im sure u can pick up a full functional vintage amp/receiver for similar or less money than what the shop would charge for repairs. esp if u get lucky & come across a TX-8500, jump on it!


----------



## ardgedee

Been feeling down in the dumps about The Fisher X-202-B. It makes the HE-6 sound beautiful, but the phones risk its health. I'm not sure what to do about it now.
   
  But I briefly dropped by my friendly local crack hi-fi dealer this evening, and they have a Marantz Model 18 receiver in the used-and-stuff room. I'm not sure what to do about that either, or what to offer if I do decide. They would allow me to try before buying, which is a material advantage over Ebay sales.
   
  Fortunately, the very vintage, extremely refurbished (and, yeah, kinda four-digit spendy) McIntosh receiver in the same room the last time I visited is no longer a temptation, as some brave unknown has sacrificed his soul for the goodness of the rest of us.


----------



## scottiebabie

Art for your HE6, i'd hunt down a sansui AU-517/717 if i were u. wait....i did hunt one down! LOL. seriously though im sure u'd be very pleasantly surprised & stoked by how much thunder the 'Sui can impart on the hifimans.
   
  too bad we didnt get a chance to hookup for a chat as the meet got postponed to June. hope u enjoyed our fair (& wet) city & had lots of sushi & chinese! LOL


----------



## ardgedee

Your fair city was actually less wet than southeast Michigan during the trip. It was probably a good time to get away. Vancouver's great for all kinds of Asian food; I think we ate mostly Korean and Japanese on the trip but the Chinese was good too. The only western meals we had, really, were breakfasts. Dunno if Japadog counts. I think I have the entire length of Robson memorized still. In fact, we were strolling down it when the Canucks playoff victory parade started. That was something. I'd be afraid for my ears if I was there during a Stanley Cup victory parade.
   
  Anyway, the Marantz would be a bird in the hand, of sorts, but I don't have a brand loyalty. Haven't seen many Sansuis of any description floating through the local sales channels, but I'll admit I haven't been looking for long yet. It's going to be difficult to get out yardsaling for a while, too, so I'm not counting on a treasure falling in my lap.


----------



## ardgedee

Hm... okay, no decent-looking AU-717s around, but there's a G5000 within reach. On the one hand, they want a couple hundred; on the other hand, it's recently recapped.
   
  A higher-powered receiver (something that can juice the HE-6 through the headphone jack rather than speaker terminals) is becoming increasingly appealing. It would be a good reason to declutter-away a variety of other electronics (tuner, amps, integrateds, preamp) that have been accumulating while trying to scratch the audiophile itch.


----------



## scottiebabie

for sure in recent years, robson st has become a smorgasboard of culture esp with the influx of foreign exchange students from korea, japan, china & whereever else. if u visit later in the heart of summer, robson become a zoocorpia of humanity waltzing up & down. i remember spending some funtimes with my biker buds hangin out corner of robson&thurlow checking the 'wildlife'! if nothing, its feast for the eyes & a great way to chillout with the buds on a sunday afternoon! LOL
   
  back on topic, i still think speaker outs da way to go. i think the headouts stepdown resistors shunts out (some) current that our orthos so desperately needs to bloom which btw, seems to jive with what slight leaness i hear using the headout with the 5LEs. but that could be just me ofcos.
   
  for sure, the bigger amps have way bigger (&better) power supplies which is what brings warmth, body & control IMO. coincidentally, did i mention my 517 (&717) has big twin trafos, 4x15k uf power caps, etc,,,, i feel thats one of the big reasons for its very authoritative bass, both in depth & heft, when compared to my other vintage amps. 
   
  talkin bout high power'd receivers, theres this G33000 still on ebay. nice score if one can manage it. no more upgrades fo sho!!! LOL


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> talkin bout high power'd receivers, theres this G33000 still on ebay. nice score if one can manage it. no more upgrades fo sho!!! LOL


 

 Wow, um... That's too big for my feet, I think a smaller size'll be more comfy.
   
  But it's certainly good to know what to look for when one needs a radio that can weld mufflers.


----------



## scottiebabie

could be just me but me thinks a radio that doubles as an arc welders more than kool - its da bomb kool! LOL. seriously though u'd have more than an receiver if u get it. its a work of art that will appreciate as a collectable & doubles as an amp, preamp & a tuner! dang how can u lose?? 
   
  howeva i think skylabs already got dibs on it. wont be long now before we see him post pics of his new toy! ahahahaha
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. u better hurry if ya gonna out bid him!


----------



## Skylab

LOL - but not a chance.  That thing is WAY too huge for me.  The SX-1980 is plenty big enough.  Maybe I just like the Pioneer sound, but I still think the SX-1980 and SX-1250 are phenomenal sounding, with both speakers and headphones.  I can't stop listening to the SX-1980.  It makes the B&W N805's sing in an unbelievably good way.


----------



## GrandZechs

My buddy brought over his pioneer SX-1280. What a beast, alas there is a problem somewhere as the right channel cuts out alot.

  I'm hoping the culprit is the stereo/mono toggle as if you fiddle with it alot sometimes the right channel will work.
  When it dose work, man this sounds sweet. And my poor old Burhoe Acoustic speakers are no match for its power.


----------



## Skylab

A good blast of de-oxit might fix the issue.  You need to take the top off and get into the controls with the de-oxit spray, and then work the controls back and forth repeatedly for a bunch of cycles.


----------



## GrandZechs

Quote: 





skylab said:


> A good blast of de-oxit might fix the issue.  You need to take the top off and get into the controls with the de-oxit spray, and then work the controls back and forth repeatedly for a bunch of cycles.


 


  Ya I'm gona get a can on the way to work today, it would be a shame for this NOT to get used.


----------



## sluker

Does anyone have any experience with the Sansui QRX 5500? How does it compare with the AU X17's?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the Sansui QRX 5500? How does it compare with the AU X17's?


 

 I heard Sansui G-8000, 8080db briefly, and I have 5000a and 5000x. But they all don't share the deep, tight, powerful bass of my AU 517. And I find 517 a little brighter than other Sui's. I don't know QRX 5500, but I's say G-xxxx sound near the AU x17.


----------



## gritzcolin

I have a Sansui AU 717 and matching TU 717 tuner, sadly the amp needs a cleaning and complete recap, I hope to get this done when I have some extra cash flow cause I have heard nothing in stores for less than $2000 that compare. Currently I am using a Sansui AU-x201i integrated amp and while it isnt as clean or powerful as the 717 it powers my Polk's and headphone out has more than adequate power for everything but my 600 ohm K240's.
   
  Basically I am saying if you find Sansui AU-xxxxxx items snag em. My Goal is to find an AU-919 and get that one day. The AU-X1 is supposedly an amazing unit but not till modifications are done cause of a flaw in the circuitry.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL - but not a chance.  That thing is WAY too huge for me.  The SX-1980 is plenty big enough.  Maybe I just like the Pioneer sound, but I still think the SX-1980 and SX-1250 are phenomenal sounding, with both speakers and headphones.  I can't stop listening to the SX-1980.  It makes the B&W N805's sing in an unbelievably good way.


 

 Nooooo say it aint sooo! Rob u have no idea how some of us (well one of us atleast) live vicariously thru your escapades. Dang im sooo bump'd & its allll your fault!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

  
  Quote: 





gritzcolin said:


> I have a Sansui AU 717 and matching TU 717 tuner, sadly the amp needs a cleaning and complete recap, I hope to get this done when I have some extra cash flow cause I have heard nothing in stores for less than $2000 that compare. Currently I am using a Sansui AU-x201i integrated amp and while it isnt as clean or powerful as the 717 it powers my Polk's and headphone out has more than adequate power for everything but my 600 ohm K240's.
> 
> Basically I am saying if you find Sansui AU-xxxxxx items snag em. My Goal is to find an AU-919 and get that one day. The AU-X1 is supposedly an amazing unit but not till modifications are done cause of a flaw in the circuitry.


 
   
  sad to hear that but mayhaps this is a great opportunity to learn some diy skills & do the recap yourself. theres some info of ppl diy x17 recaps specifically at audiokarma so it mite not be as difficult as thought. i also think that someones sells refurb boards & components for the 717 on ebay. something to chew on for sure.
   
  i'd have to agree that snagging a 919s a great idea.


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote: 





> sad to hear that but mayhaps this is a great opportunity to learn some diy skills & do the recap yourself. theres some info of ppl diy x17 recaps specifically at audiokarma so it mite not be as difficult as thought. i also think that someones sells refurb boards & components for the 717 on ebay. something to chew on for sure.
> 
> i'd have to agree that snagging a 919s a great idea.


 


  I have thought about doing the recap myself, I am ok with diy projects, fixing iPods, Nintendo DS', decent at soldering but those things can all be replaced this is a gift from my father and if I break it I won't forgive myself.


----------



## RexAeterna

i found a sansui au-717 for 90 bucks but it's missing the volume knob and source selector knob. owner says protection circuit stays on and right channel is completely out and left distorts. i'm guessing it's the bias and output transistors. i'm contemplating rather i should go for it or not and how hard it will be to find replacement knobs for it. i'm not too worried about the insides really. i'm more concerned finding replacement knobs.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i found a sansui au-717 for 90 bucks but it's missing the volume knob and source selector knob. owner says protection circuit stays on and right channel is completely out and left distorts. i'm guessing it's the bias and output transistors. i'm contemplating rather i should go for it or not and how hard it will be to find replacement knobs for it. i'm not too worried about the insides really. i'm more concerned finding replacement knobs.


 


  vol knobs a ubiquitious 40mm black knob & selector's about 20mm so they both should be easy to comeby. i think parts connexion sells them for $15@ or so. mite not be exact factory match but its close enuff. 
   
  howeva protection on means theres a short somewhere. left channel could be output transistors or any other blow part on the driver board. if ya gonna change transistors, mites well get matched sets for both channels. since ya gonna be ripping out the guts, u mites do a full refurb too.
   
  to be honest, unless ya good EE tech/diy'er i wouldnt touch it. a full operational unit can easily be had for $200 or so. why take the risk of not being able to diagnose the issue or worse, have to send it the shop where u mite get fleeced. jus my $0.02.


----------



## RexAeterna

yea. i was told it was glue issues on the driver boards and you need to rip them out and clean the oxdizing glue off cause the glue when it ages acts a conductor. to get to them you have to take apart the whole amp so i'm gonna pass for now.


----------



## shipsupt

Hmmmm... An AU717 on CL and local... Scottie you're killing me....


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Hmmmm... An AU717 on CL and local... Scottie you're killing me....


 


  heyyy why am i gettin the 'blame' here when theres a 3-4 other x17 players here too! LOL! seriously though, if the local units in minty full operational condition & u can snag it for under $200, its a good score.
   
  personally i cant anyone being too disappointed in its sonics both as a speaker amp or dedicated headamp. Davo50 rates his 717 at just a hair below his tube 'optimized' multiK$ WA22 driving the LCD2 so take it for whats its worth


----------



## ardgedee

Ssssh ix-nay on the ype-hay until I land one.
   
  *cough*
   
  I know a guy who had an AU-717 and he got kicked out of the audiophile club because he couldn't say "warm, liquid midrange" without spitting drool. A panel of experts agreed that the AU-717 only exhibits synergy with white van speakers and dog whistles. Did you know that if you listen to an AU-717 for too long, Rogaine works in reverse? Everybody knows that in the late 1970s, unsold AU-717s were melted down and used to make "ET: The Extra-Terrestrial" video game cartridges. So I'm not saying the amp is jinxed, but you don't really want to take chances like that in your own lovingly set up hi-fi system, do you?
   
  All these facts should be considered absolutely, totally true at least until I have one of my own to evaluate.


----------



## sluker

Just got my HE5-LE's back yesterday and burned them in all night with the 717. Perhaps not a good idea to run a 30+ year old amp straight for 8 hours. When I listened to them in the morning, every time I adjusted the volume the right channel would fade and cut out for half a second and then come back. So I decided to do a quick DeOxit cleaning on the volume pot and some of the more visible parts (I have no idea what I am doing obviously). 
  To my surprise it appears to have done the trick.
  Listening now and the bass on the HE5-LE's has never sounded so deep. In fact the sound is very similar to the MiniWatt via speaker taps, however the soundstage is  deeper and the bass is more articulate/detailed on the 717, where as the Miniwatt has a smaller soundstage and is a tad smoother with less detail in bass.
  FWIW these are quick first impressions A/B 'ing with some Tool and Rage Against the Machine. 
  One other observation is that the sibilance/brightness I notice on the LCD-2's does not seem to be a factor on the HE5-LE's, however keep in mind that the HE5-LE's are naturally bright in comparison to LCD-2.
  Regardless of price the 717 is my best combo for the HE5-LE, but for $200 it is a steal.
  I will not be melting mine down to make ET game cartridges


----------



## RexAeterna

scottie you seriously need to cut it out here. your killing my chances of getting these units cheap.if you keep it up here i be lucky to starting finding a au-7XX amp under 400 bucks lol. well i'm gonna pick up a au-719 for 200 in a week or two from a local since i get busy. monday i'm picking up a pair of akg 240 sextetts in perfect working order and near mint condition for 10 bucks! owner already gurantee me the headphones as well since he likes me and thinks i'm a cool guy.


----------



## ardgedee

On a more serious note, has anybody here tried old Heathkit units on modern equipment? I've got half a notion to track down the model my dad built back in the day purely for sentimental reasons. But I also remember our home stereo would cut out from time to time and the tuner didn't behave well. (edit: grammar!)
   
  Since these were all hobbyist-built, regardless of design the quality is wildly variable, so that and obscurity are why I assume they tend to be cheap on the resale sites.


----------



## scottiebabie

what can i say....when im right im right! LOL. seriously though, it took me over a dozen amps to discover the 'Sui AUx17 - orthos (hifiman 5LE atleast) synergy. bonus is its more than not bad with the HD650 & PK1 earbuds too. im seriously hoping the 517 can redouble its magic with an incoming K702.
   
  personally im more than pleased its not a figment of my imagination or am just a AU-x17 shrill when i touted the goodness of these amps. vindicated's a niceeee word i tellya! LMAO!


----------



## Skylab

I still have the Heathkit AA-1219 integrated my Dad and I built together when I was twelve. That was my first amp, and I loved it. Dusted it off the other day - was quite competent on headphones! I was just amazed that it worked 32 years later, given that it hadn't been used in probably 20 years.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> heyyy why am i gettin the 'blame' here when theres a 3-4 other x17 players here too! LOL! seriously though, if the local units in minty full operational condition & u can snag it for under $200, its a good score.
> 
> personally i cant anyone being too disappointed in its sonics both as a speaker amp or dedicated headamp. Davo50 rates his 717 at just a hair below his tube 'optimized' multiK$ WA22 driving the LCD2 so take it for whats its worth


 

 Yup, and I'm sticking to that statement.  Especially since I finally got my bias and dc offset adjusted.  Thanks for the help!
   


  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Ssssh ix-nay on the ype-hay until I land one.
> 
> *cough*
> 
> ...


 

 Well, I did own a white van once and most of my hair's gone.....


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


sluker said:


> Just got my HE5-LE's back yesterday and burned them in all night with the 717. Perhaps not a good idea to run a 30+ year old amp straight for 8 hours. When I listened to them in the morning, every time I adjusted the volume the right channel would fade and cut out for half a second and then come back. So I decided to do a quick DeOxit cleaning on the volume pot and some of the more visible parts (I have no idea what I am doing obviously).
> To my surprise it appears to have done the trick.
> Listening now and the bass on the HE5-LE's has never sounded so deep. In fact the sound is very similar to the MiniWatt via speaker taps, however the soundstage is  deeper and the bass is more articulate/detailed on the 717, where as the Miniwatt has a smaller soundstage and is a tad smoother with less detail in bass.
> FWIW these are quick first impressions A/B 'ing with some Tool and Rage Against the Machine.
> ...


 

 Is that wood on your 5LEs?!
   
  Much prefer the new glossy finish you have to the old matte black.
   
  Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> what can i say....when im right im right! LOL. seriously though, it took me over a dozen amps to discover the 'Sui AUx17 - orthos (hifiman 5LE atleast) synergy. bonus is its more than not bad with the HD650 & PK1 earbuds too. im seriously hoping the 517 can redouble its magic with an incoming K702.
> 
> personally im more than pleased its not a figment of my imagination or am just a AU-x17 shrill when i touted the goodness of these amps. vindicated's a niceeee word i tellya! LMAO!


 
   
  Aw, now I _have_ to get one of these!  =]


----------



## RexAeterna

scottiebabie said:


> what can i say....when im right im right! LOL. seriously though, it took me over a dozen amps to discover the 'Sui AUx17 - orthos (hifiman 5LE atleast) synergy. bonus is its more than not bad with the HD650 & PK1 earbuds too. im seriously hoping the 517 can redouble its magic with an incoming K702.
> 
> personally im more than pleased its not a figment of my imagination or am just a AU-x17 shrill when i touted the goodness of these amps. vindicated's a niceeee word i tellya! LMAO!




no big deal man. i get one one day. right now i just reseted the bias on my sansui 5000x. wow,what a big difference especially in clarity. the bias drifted way off in time to 46ma right channel and 38 left channel. i was getting distortion in my headphones and speakers. i brought both channels way down to 20.1ma and now it sounds as wonderful when i first bought it over a few months ago. now i'm waiting to pick up my pair of sextetts tomorrow and i'm bidding on a pair of vintage Koss E9's electrostatics and plan on redoing the transformer box and earpads.


----------



## sluker

Could someone please post a step by step on the bias adjustment. I have limited DIY skills when it comes to electronics, but I think a step by step may make it less daunting.


----------



## RexAeterna

sluker said:


> Could someone please post a step by step on the bias adjustment. I have limited DIY skills when it comes to electronics, but I think a step by step may make it less daunting.




what amp? you should be able to find the service manual either at audiokarma's data base or at hifiengine.com

in the service manual it will give you step by step on how to adjust the bias.


----------



## Skylab

I added a Cassette deck, and snapped some new pics


----------



## TruBrew

I just bought a Pioneer SX-950 to run my HE-6, and LCD-2 from. I hope it was a good decision. I should probably be saving my money, but oh well. It seemed like a good deal.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> I added a Cassette deck, and snapped some new pics




jealous.....congrats on the tape deck! if you find the right recording it will sound amazing and surprise you. so far my favorite tape i own is phantom of the opera tape with the original cast. when i first popped it in i couldn't believe my ears on how good and the dynamics of tapes and i'm using some kenwood dual tape deck.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks, Rex. I got a vintage Sansui, and I only have a few cassette tapes, but they sounded pretty darned good! And of course, love the analog VU meters  I managed to find a deck that was a good aesthetic match to the EST of the rig, and was well regarded. This deck weight as much as many power amps!


----------



## scottiebabie

Rob i gotta say i get more than a little tickled looking at your vintage collection. now u just havta do it & get a tapedeck of all things! LOL not sure how or when you're gonna use it but wth, its all good. talking bout tapedecks, i use to lust after my uncles Nakamichi Dragon & go gaga watching the tapedeck mechanical system ejecting the tape, spining it around and reloading it into the deck. nothing much cool'er than that when youre 7yrs old! btw these 'Dragons' do show up occasionally for like $1k & up!!!
   
  @sluker, REX's absolutely correct. go download the service manual & do some reading. i'll be happy to provide what modicum of assistance i can after u have read the basics. psssst....its not that difficult incase ya quivering in fear at reading manuals! hehe


----------



## sluker

The manual I was able to download is barely legible. Could someone please post a link to a 717 manual or just the schematic on page 3.


----------



## RexAeterna

i don't if you guys don't know this but i found out it's best to plug your amps especially your power hungrey ones directly into the walls and not in a surge protector cause some surge protectors are also current limiters and that can limit the amount of current your amp can pull at full load.

found out cause i was having issues when i turn and listen to my sansui i would get distortion when the sansui is on by itself but as soon i turned on my yamaha the distortion disappeared. found out i might be limiting the amount of current my amps could be drawing causing distortion so i'm buying 2 14 gauge extension cables tomorrow after i come back from picking up my sextetts from the guy and hooking my amps directly to my walls outlets.


found out also flourescent bulbs can cause a EMF causing interferences and suggest take unused short rca jacks and cover all unused jacks behind the amp.


----------



## RexAeterna

sluker said:


> The manual I was able to download is barely legible. Could someone please post a link to a 717 manual or just the schematic on page 3.




you mean sansui au-717?


 http://www.hifiengine.com/manuals/sansui/au-717.shtml


it's free to become a member and you can download this service manual.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I added a Cassette deck, and snapped some new pics


 

 That Pioneer looks like my Pioneer 4450 that needs to be restored. Anyway does anyone know where in Michigan i could get 3 vintage amps (Kenwood 9000GX, Sansui AU-999 (with inside diagram), and Pioneer Quartz MKii) serviced? Also im thinking of selling my Sansui and Pioneer for $1000, is that reasonable?


----------



## ardgedee

cifani090 - check your pm.


----------



## BmWr75

Ended up buying this receiver, turns out not too many 200+ WPC receivers were made.
   
The OVER 200 wpc gang:
 Technics SA-1000 330x2
 Marantz 2600 300x2
 Sansui G-33000 300x2
 Pioneer SX-1980 270x2
 Marantz 2500 250x2
 Sansui G-22000 220x2

200-watters
 Sansui G-9700 200x2
 Kenwood KR-9050 200x2
 Hitachi SR-2004 200x2
 Sanyo PLUS 200 ........ 200x2
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> A buddy at work gave me this Kenwood KR-9050 to check out today.  Just checked the DC offset on both channels.  Left - -11.7 mV, Right = +10.5 mV  Receiver appears to be all original, no restoration.
> 
> Will look at zeroing it tomorrow and checking the Bias.
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

That is one SWEET looking receiver. If I were ever to add one more receiver to my collection, it would be that, or the KR-9600. Very nice!


----------



## sluker

I just made a speaker tap for the Sansui AU717 and have been A/B ing for the last half hour. 
  The speaker taps are definitely more powerful, the volume at -47 via speaker taps is equal to -32 via the HO. 
  However, once adjusted for volume I notice only a slight difference in the impact of lower bass. The difference is so slight that you really need to concentrate to hear it. Soundstage, detail, highs and mids are identical.
  Perhaps my hearing is not what it used to be, regardless I will run the speaker taps for a while to see if things change once they settle in.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I just made a speaker tap for the Sansui AU717 and have been A/B ing for the last half hour.
> The speaker taps are definitely more powerful, the volume at -47 via speaker taps is equal to -32 via the HO.
> However, once adjusted for volume I notice only a slight difference in the impact of lower bass. The difference is so slight that you really need to concentrate to hear it. Soundstage, detail, highs and mids are identical.
> Perhaps my hearing is not what it used to be, regardless I will run the speaker taps for a while to see if things change once they settle in.


 

 well i certainly cant make any claims bout any great hearing either but i've been posting similar experiences for the longest. the HO sounds lean to me comparo with speaker taps. maybe this is just a 5LE phenomenon but for sure, speaker taps have way more gain. i struggle to get past 9o'clk vol & i aint listening low.
   
  FWIW i also find speaker taps atad more 'open' sounding. let me know when u do more listening as it seems u & I are in a very small exclusive x17+5LE club so i find your findings quite relevent.


----------



## RexAeterna

i just took out my little 1983 hitachi HA-2 amp and forgot how much i liked this little guy. it was just 5 bucks when i bought it and it uses 680ohm 1/2w resistors between the speaker outputs and headphone out. it's also 50wpc@8ohms for speakers. i been using it lately for headphone listening on my akg 240's and really like the clarity coming out of it. been using it also since i have to get the output transistors replaced for my sansui 5000x. i still use my big yamaha R-9 amp for my speakers of course.


----------



## scottiebabie

to any vintage gearheads in Hongcouver...errrn Vancouver i mean - one of my private vintage sources offered me a Yamaha CR-820 & a JVC CD4 4xxx Quadraphonic receivers both for the ungodly sum of 50 smackeroos.
   
  i had to pass on it (after a few slobbering moments) cos i've got too much gear in hand plus the wife will drill new holes in my head if i bring home any more stuff. 
   
  thought i'd throw this out there for any of my fellow gearheads


----------



## Frank I

I have been using the Highflight pigtail on the speaker taps of the SX980  and agree it is more open than my headphone jack but I do get a little nervous as its a 80W receiver. Anyone know what the wattage into 50ohs in the He6 is coming off the taps. Sounds great but want to make sure I wont hurt the He6


----------



## Skylab

Frank, if my calculations are correct, an amp rated at 80 W into 8 ohms would output somewhere around 15 W into 50 ohms. You should be OK as long as you don't do anything crazy, my friend - I don't think you can really hurt the HE-6 with too much power as far as playing music goes. Your ears would give up first.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Frank, if my calculations are correct, an amp rated at 80 W into 8 ohms would output somewhere around 15 W into 50 ohms. You should be OK as long as you don't do anything crazy, my friend - I don't think you can really hurt the HE-6 with too much power as far as playing music goes. Your ears would give up first.


 


  Thanks Rob i appreciate it I kind of figured it was no more than 15W but I just want to be cautious.


----------



## ardgedee

I've been keeping an eye on, well, the market, looking for a solid-state receiver/integrated to purchase. I let a Sansui G9700 slip past the other day - it went for cheap at under $400, but that was more than I wanted to spend and, to be honest, at a conservatively-rated 200 wpc it was going to trip the office's GPF circuit breaker every time I turned it on.
   
  Many of the G-series and AU-series Sansuis have been selling high lately. I appreciate the enthusiasm but it's not helping my wallet. Eesh.
   
  So there should be a Harmon-Kardon Twin Power 670 arriving on my front deck some time next week. In H-K's history, it's a transition from their 70s-era amps to their 80s-era amps: dual-mono like the classic HKx30 series, but with a large monolithic power supply instead of dual transformers. It was their TOTL subsequent to the HK930, which lately has been hard to find and selling dearly.
   
  Harmon-Kardon hasn't been getting a lot of love in this thread so it was time to take one for the team. I'll let you all know how well it plays with the HE-6.
   
  If somebody's feeling adventurous, one of the Carver integrateds or receivers would be interesting to try. Bob Carver's patented Sonic Holography circuit is a crossfeed implementation -- yet another variation of what Headroom and Jan Meier put in their amps -- so it's effectively pre-optimized for headphones. All that's left to determine is how well it works with our favorite difficult-to-drive phones.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

I recently obtained a Technics SA-700 100 watt receiver. It has an OK headphone out but I really love it driving my Mcintosh XR5s. it has a ton of preamp features and the speakers outs sound great. Lot of power. Problem is, no sound will come out of it now. Is it worth bringing it to somebody that fixes these things? A record shop nearby has a guy that works on vintage gear like this and I am thinking of taking it to him. Would it be worth $100-150 it might cost to fix? (It might be less, but I am preparing for the worst.) Thanks everybody. Vintage is the best.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> Frank, if my calculations are correct, an amp rated at 80 W into 8 ohms would output somewhere around 15 W into 50 ohms. You should be OK as long as you don't do anything crazy, my friend - I don't think you can really hurt the HE-6 with too much power as far as playing music goes. Your ears would give up first.




i could be wrong but i do not think headphone impedance and speaker impedance are no where near a like cause 1w@8ohmis is exactly around 2.75 volts and headphones need miliwatts and milivolts to function at it's given sensitivity. any higher is for more spl reasons. i know there is max voltage these little drivers can handle but i find driving more then 3 watts of power for your headphones to be kinda dangerous for your ears and drivers. i know they probably can handle the amount of power for certain amount of time but i don't think anyones ears can.


----------



## RexAeterna

georgegoodman said:


> I recently obtained a Technics SA-700 100 watt receiver. It has an OK headphone out but I really love it driving my Mcintosh XR5s. it has a ton of preamp features and the speakers outs sound great. Lot of power. Problem is, no sound will come out of it now. Is it worth bringing it to somebody that fixes these things? A record shop nearby has a guy that works on vintage gear like this and I am thinking of taking it to him. Would it be worth $100-150 it might cost to fix? (It might be less, but I am preparing for the worst.) Thanks everybody. Vintage is the best.




it's all up to you really if it's worth fixing or not. technics are under-rated in both the vintage receiver and speaker market. i find technics make some great quality stuff. i actually think the technics SA-700 is one of the most liked sonically. even lot of people prefer it to it's much larger monsterous brother SA-1000.it will make a great amp for speakers. headphone wise it depends really. i usually think when buying vintage gear i always think speakers first and headphone listening second thought cause these beastly amps have massive power supplies that can draw lots of current causing circuit breakers to blow lol.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It stinks for headphone, but I really enjoyed the Mcintoshes with it before it broke. I think I will fix it, even if it is a significant amount of money. That is all the sound quality I need in speakers.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I have been using the Highflight pigtail on the speaker taps of the SX980  and agree it is more open than my headphone jack but I do get a little nervous as its a 80W receiver. Anyone know what the wattage into 50ohs in the He6 is coming off the taps. Sounds great but want to make sure I wont hurt the He6


 

 dont fret it too much Frank. i've been powering my 5LE (which i hear is more efficient than the HE6) off the speaker taps since day one which nary an incident - maybe 'ceptin some occasional vocal shrillness with certain amps. just be judicious with the vol dial & youre golden.
   


  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I've been keeping an eye on, well, the market, looking for a solid-state receiver/integrated to purchase. I let a Sansui G9700 slip past the other day - it went for cheap at under $400, but that was more than I wanted to spend and, to be honest, at a conservatively-rated 200 wpc it was going to trip the office's GPF circuit breaker every time I turned it on.
> 
> Many of the G-series and AU-series Sansuis have been selling high lately. I appreciate the enthusiasm but it's not helping my wallet. Eesh.
> 
> ...


 

 congrats on the Harman Kardon Art. me thinks youre gonna be more than stoked with it. i've been on the lookout for a HK930 for the longest with zero luck as yet. the Carver Sonic Holography thingy sounds interesting though. whos gonna volunteer to take one for the team??
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> I recently obtained a Technics SA-700 100 watt receiver. It has an OK headphone out but I really love it driving my Mcintosh XR5s. it has a ton of preamp features and the speakers outs sound great. Lot of power. Problem is, no sound will come out of it now. Is it worth bringing it to somebody that fixes these things? A record shop nearby has a guy that works on vintage gear like this and I am thinking of taking it to him. Would it be worth $100-150 it might cost to fix? (It might be less, but I am preparing for the worst.) Thanks everybody. Vintage is the best.


 

 hmmm if it were me, i'd crack open the case for a look around 1st before i do anything expensive like sending it out to the shop. its more than a slight possibility that a fuse (or 2) mite have popped so check for fuses. with vintages, they're usually located on the board itself & sometimes on the chassis too. while ya at it, look for dark burnt marks for signs of destroyed parts - if nothing, they give an indication of which parts to replace & simplify diagnosis.
   
  KISS being the motto, check for blown fuses before doing anything else. goodluck


----------



## Frank I

Actually it sounds great on the SX980 out of the pigtail and it has enough power to really make them sing. Too bad its not tube power but it sounds great.


----------



## MrQ

You guys weren't joking about how good vintage receivers are with headphones. I've just acquired a *Marantz 2385 *in mint condition. I was meant to be getting the Pioneer sx-1250 and ended up with this instead...
   

   
  So far I've used the Beyer T1's and the sound has never been so good out of a headphone jack. I haven't even tried my LCD-2 yet.  
  It's like the Marantz is saying "Ha! I laugh at your 600Ohms, what else have you got?"
   
  I'm tempted to by the HE-6 this week. Not sure if I can wait a month. I'm using the NFB-10 as a DAC. Anyone got any DAC upgrade recommendations apart from the Ref 7.1?
   
  edit:
   
  I need to buy some Harbeth Super HL-5 speakers to match it. Well it would be rude not to.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mrq said:


> You guys weren't joking about how good vintage receivers are with headphones. I've just acquired a *Marantz 2385 *in mint condition. I was meant to be getting the Pioneer sx-1250 and ended up with this instead...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is beautiful. Man its sure is in nice shape. use it well and enjoy.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mrq said:


> You guys weren't joking about how good vintage receivers are with headphones. I've just acquired a *Marantz 2385 *in mint condition. I was meant to be getting the Pioneer sx-1250 and ended up with this instead...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is beautiful. Man its sure is in nice shape. use it well and enjoy.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, MrQ, awesome Marantz!!!! That is a killer receiver, I am sure it rocks with headphones. Very nice!


----------



## MrQ

Thanks all. It's unbelievable how much power this thing puts out. As it happens the guy I bought it from has a SX-1980 in mint condition. Seeing and listening to one of those in the flesh made me realise what a monster amp you have Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, the SX-1980 is pretty impressive to behold, and to listen to.  But that Marantz of yours is no slouch, man!  That's a highly regarded piece.


----------



## scottiebabie

LOL! the both of u has got enuff firepower to fry any headphones & perhaps 95% of all speakers too. 
   
  congrats Theo on finally scoring your big Marantz. glad u think its worth it. now u gotta work on a 2600 to one up skylab! hehe


----------



## Frank I

I been using the speaker taps on the HE6 and SX980 and listening to large scale recordings mostly SACD wide range and now i remember why I bought the hE6 and this SX980 is a winner especially driving them out of the speaker taps. Just unlimited headroom and speed and slam with detail its all there . Effortless dynamite.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> LOL! the both of u has got enuff firepower to fry any headphones & perhaps 95% of all speakers too.
> 
> congrats Theo on finally scoring your big Marantz. glad u think its worth it. now u gotta work on a 2600 to one up skylab! hehe


 

 You're a bad man Scott
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks for your off-thread advice. Here's the kicker, I can still get the 1250 when it's repaired.


----------



## scompton

rexaeterna said:


> i just took out my little 1983 hitachi HA-2 amp and forgot how much i liked this little guy. it was just 5 bucks when i bought it and it uses 680ohm 1/2w resistors between the speaker outputs and headphone out. it's also 50wpc@8ohms for speakers. i been using it lately for headphone listening on my akg 240's and really like the clarity coming out of it. been using it also since i have to get the output transistors replaced for my sansui 5000x. i still use my big yamaha R-9 amp for my speakers of course.




I have a Hitachi HA-MA Mk II mini system that sounds great. I think it's the same vintage. It's an odd little unit with an amp and tuner connected with a dedicated umbilical. The preamplifier controls are spread between the two. I think it was only sold in Europe. It has a Eropean plug but takes 110 or 220 volts. One set of speaker taps are some strange 2 prong things and recently started to cut in and out. Fortunately, the other taps are fine.

I was using it at work, but recently brought it home for a bedroom rig because WAF is good for it compared to just about anything else.


----------



## TruBrew

So I have a SX-950 on the way. I am thinking about buying some Stax. Do you guys think it would work properly with a WEE. I have no idea what kind of power it requires, but the Pioneer is supposed to put out 85w per channel.


----------



## scottiebabie

i traded for a 100+hrs K702 lastweek & it arrived today. finally got a chance to sit down after dinner & chores to have a listen. and....
   
  bad news is this sucka needs power -almost 1/3 more than the HD650 at equivalent vol- & im supa lucky i've got vintages amps with loadsa powwaaah.
  bad news is this sucka is..errr...atad lean (ok mucho lean v 650 & 5LE) & im supa lucky i've got a 'Sui AU-517 to give it some balls down low (pardon da pun).
  bad news is this sucka is...errr...still lean & im supa lucky i've got tone controls to provide bigga ballls down low.
  bad news is this sucka has only 100hrs or so in teh oven -i hear it needs upto 500hrs to bloom- & im supa lucky i've got vintage receivers to provide 24/7 radio static (or isit music?) for cookin.
   
  & the good news is...im darn lucky i've vintage amps & receivers to tame this german sucka of a headphone. gatta love being a vintage gearhead & a headfier


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> So I have a SX-950 on the way. I am thinking about buying some Stax. Do you guys think it would work properly with a WEE. I have no idea what kind of power it requires, but the Pioneer is supposed to put out 85w per channel.


 

 Why not ask Jack about his WOO WEE.
   
  Hopefully your SX-950 and my SX-650 come this Friday, but I am not getting my hopes up that my SX will be that great maybe on a par with your lyr. It seems the boys are doing a little flop flop about these amps.
  As far as using speaker taps I am not a convinced that speaker taps would be the best thing for the HE6's.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





mrq said:


> You guys weren't joking about how good vintage receivers are with headphones.
> It's like the Marantz is saying "Ha! I laugh at your 600Ohms, what else have you got?"


 
  Perfect! Couldn't have said it better myself. In the thread where I'm from, I've been trying to get this exact concept (once you got powa, fuggeddabout impedance!) across since oh, about 2007. Where have you guys _*been*?_
   
  Seriously, I was able to convince one person, and he's in this thread. For his sake, so he'll still have a system at work, I will suggest a humble mini system that was made for giant retailer Sears by Sanyo. Very inexpensive at auction since it's Under The Radar. No MOSFETs in this one:


----------



## RexAeterna

scompton said:


> rexaeterna said:
> 
> 
> > i just took out my little 1983 hitachi HA-2 amp and forgot how much i liked this little guy. it was just 5 bucks when i bought it and it uses 680ohm 1/2w resistors between the speaker outputs and headphone out. it's also 50wpc@8ohms for speakers. i been using it lately for headphone listening on my akg 240's and really like the clarity coming out of it. been using it also since i have to get the output transistors replaced for my sansui 5000x. i still use my big yamaha R-9 amp for my speakers of course.
> ...




that is a nice little system. i never heard of it since i haven't looked much into hitachi gear recently so you might be right it was only for europe or it could of just been a model made for europeans maybe.

i like hitachi gear. you can find some nice amps. i remember visiting my Godfather to see if he can spare me one of his extra receivers for speakers i found and when i went upstairs i saw this huge and heavy hitachi silver faced integrated amp. it was a very nice unit. i tried getting it off of him but he wouldn't let me use it.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I've been keeping an eye on, well, the market, looking for a solid-state receiver/integrated to purchase. I let a Sansui G9700 slip past the other day - it went for cheap at under $400, but that was more than I wanted to spend and, to be honest, at a conservatively-rated 200 wpc it was going to trip the office's GPF circuit breaker every time I turned it on.
> 
> Many of the G-series and AU-series Sansuis have been selling high lately. I appreciate the enthusiasm but it's not helping my wallet. Eesh.
> 
> ...


 


   I used to own the Carver "The Receiver" 130 watts per channel. I was never impressed with its sound and the magnetic field amplifier impementation. It was noisy and with a lean sound. I sold it and went to Adcom separates.
   
  On the other hand, I had the external Sonic Holography processor. That was very nice. You can still get it in Audiogon or Ebay for about $80 or so.
   
  Even after Bob Carver started with his new generation of amplifiers at Sunfire with the voltage tracking converter power supply I remember listening to the first Sunfire with a pair of Martin Logan ReQuest and the sound was terrible. Very harsh. We replaced the amplifier with a Conrad Johnson solid state and what a difference.
   
  I think Bob Carver is a very creative person but IMO his products have never reach the level of sound quality of other top tier brands.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Why not ask Jack about his WOO WEE.
> 
> Hopefully your SX-950 and my SX-650 come this Friday, but I am not getting my hopes up that my SX will be that great maybe on a par with your lyr. It seems the boys are doing a little flop flop about these amps.
> As far as using speaker taps I am not a convinced that speaker taps would be the best thing for the HE6's.


 
  The HE6 work nice on the SX650 headphone jack but it comes into a new league entirely with my SX980 out of the speaker taps and its my receiver of choice for them. Its only seeing 15W of the amps 80W 8 ohm rating and I cant see why you would not run the out of the speaker taps. My SX980 sounds great but the SX650 if its a clean one will surprise you and even out of the headphone jack. I have never used my HE6 on the SX650 except in the headphone jack and its drives them well


----------



## gritzcolin

Quote: 





mrq said:


> You guys weren't joking about how good vintage receivers are with headphones. I've just acquired a *Marantz 2385 *in mint condition. I was meant to be getting the Pioneer sx-1250 and ended up with this instead...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I had that exact receiver when I was 13 or 14 I traded it for something stupid that I no longer have. If only I could go back in time.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





gritzcolin said:


> I had that exact receiver when I was 13 or 14 I traded it for something stupid that I no longer have. If only I could go back in time.


 
  Heh. You never know, it might be the same one. Mine is an American model, so I have to use a step-down transformer.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i traded for a 100+hrs K702 lastweek & it arrived today. finally got a chance to sit down after dinner & chores to have a listen. and....<snip>
> & the good news is...im darn lucky i've vintage amps & receivers to tame this german sucka of a headphone. gatta love being a vintage gearhead & a headfier


 
   
  Trying my 702 now. Well thank goodness for tone controls and tone mode. I never been happier to see a bass control before.
  
   
  Quote: 





wualta said:


> Perfect! Couldn't have said it better myself. In the thread where I'm from, I've been trying to get this exact concept (once you got powa, fuggeddabout impedance!) across since oh, about 2007. Where have you guys _*been*?_


 
  Playing catch-up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I really can't see myself looking for another amp now. I can focus on getting a decent DAC now.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


wualta said:


> Seriously, I was able to convince one person, and he's in this thread. For his sake, so he'll still have a system at work, I will suggest a humble mini system that was made for giant retailer Sears by Sanyo. Very inexpensive at auction since it's Under The Radar. No MOSFETs in this one:


 

 Similar to how the LXI was made by Sanyo for Sears, the MCS receivers were made by Panasonic for JC Penney. It makes me curious what other electronic gear of that era are well-manufactured kit flying under the radar because they were made on contract for Radio Shack, Montgomery Ward, etc.
   
  We know about the headphones sold as Realistic Pro 30, Pro 50, etc. by Radio Shack back in the day, at least.
   
  I got sniped out of an auction for a Heathkit AU-1500A a couple days ago, and I'm still feeling a little sad about that. That's the model my dad built for our living room when I was a kid. In going back through some old literature on it, it turns out to have been quite the beast. Still and all, one good receiver should be enough. Amps are piling up as it is and I have to cull.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> i traded for a 100+hrs K702 lastweek & it arrived today. finally got a chance to sit down after dinner & chores to have a listen. and....


 

 Whoof. Sorry, man - if I could go back in time, I'd have warned you. (slow-mo of someone running towards the camera screaming "NOOOOOOO.....")
   
  Look up the Friend or Foe mod; it helps a lot, albeit at the cost of weakening the soundstage, one of the K70x's worthwhile qualities.
   
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I used to own the Carver "The Receiver" 130 watts per channel. I was never impressed with its sound and the magnetic field amplifier impementation. It was noisy and with a lean sound. I sold it and went to Adcom separates.
> 
> On the other hand, I had the external Sonic Holography processor. That was very nice. You can still get it in Audiogon or Ebay for about $80 or so.


 

  I already have a Corda Cross box I'm happy with so I won't be looking for an upgrade or replacement, but I hadn't known there was a standalone SH product. Interesting.
   
  Thanks for the data (and for short-circuiting my impulse to try one) - Bob Carver and his work are one of those polarizing things in the audiophile community. All the same, I feel like the audio world benefits from mad geniuses of his sort, now and again.


----------



## RexAeterna

my akg 240 sextetts just arrived around 30 minutes ago. so far these things are amazing coming out of my vintage amps(the midrange is totally Godlike. first thing i noticed on these). i think tho they need little burn in time(lol yes burn in time) cause owner told me he only used these only once and packed them away. they are near mint condition and i paid only 15 bucks for these. not sure what model sextett. i haven't bothered looking but i think late production cause my headband doesn't have the holes.if i didn't buy them he was gonna throw them away. i been seriously looking months upon months on CL to find these local and i finally have a pair.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> i traded for a 100+hrs K702 lastweek & it arrived today. finally got a chance to sit down after dinner & chores to have a listen. and....
> 
> bad news is this sucka needs power -almost 1/3 more than the HD650 at equivalent vol- & im supa lucky i've got vintages amps with loadsa powwaaah.
> bad news is this sucka is..errr...atad lean (ok mucho lean v 650 & 5LE) & im supa lucky i've got a 'Sui AU-517 to give it some balls down low (pardon da pun).
> ...


 

 Hey Scottie,
   
  Check out these mods Mad Max's recently done:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/321237/k701-appreciation-thread/1515
   
  Might indirectly help the lows.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i traded for a 100+hrs K702 lastweek & it arrived today. finally got a chance to sit down after dinner & chores to have a listen. and....
> 
> bad news is this sucka needs power -almost 1/3 more than the HD650 at equivalent vol- & im supa lucky i've got vintages amps with loadsa powwaaah.
> bad news is this sucka is..errr...atad lean (ok mucho lean v 650 & 5LE) & im supa lucky i've got a 'Sui AU-517 to give it some balls down low (pardon da pun).
> ...


 



 I am sorry to hear that!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  When I first tried my q701, it pierced my ears so badly that i just wanted to throw it away. After 50 hours burn-in, I can finally tolerate the phones. I very enjoy classics music and jazz through q701. But after around 120 hours, I am happy that hip-hop also is very enjoyable. I do noticed that at my first listening period, q701 can't handle very low stuff, it roll off all low stuff. I can't hear deep bass at all, it just produced some static sound. But now, It can handle low stuff well. Comparing q701 to HD650 is like Venus to Mars. They are totally in other direction. AKG is like a picture that we can see the every pixle dot, Sennheiser is like pictures photoshoped with soft. But I do believe what I hear from q701 is near what records should sound. I have HD380 and it's more like q701 than HD650. And form what I learned from internet, HD380 is more natural in all Sennheiser phones. Anyway, it's just two very different tastes. I hope you will enjoy k702 later after "burn-in", or you physically or mentally accept AKG. Sui AU-x17 pairs my q701 well, it won't warm up the AKG's lean or bright, but it helps AKG with more deep bass and produce more organ sound.
   
  I also have a Carver HR772 which features Sonic Holography and 150 wpc, but I also find it's very lean and not enjoyable. It can't compare to Vintage stuff. Sonic Holography does help increase sound stage, but it sound learner and lifeless. I messed carver with all it's tone control but couldn't produce a combination I like. Vintage stuff is easy, you simply turn the bass +2db or tremble -2db, and you find the sound you like.
   
   
  Pioneer SX-1050 on top of SX-1250


----------



## ardgedee

Mister Harman and Mister Kardon are in the house. Tonight, they will be performing on the HK 670 for your entertainment.
   
  I'm warming up the office with some American Music Club, a dual-mono high-watt amplifier and a recreational cold beverage. So far, through the wee little Design Acoustics bookshelves I use for nearfield monitors, everything is tight and and in tune and I'm getting more bass out of these speakers than any other amp I've tried yet. Hold that thought. 
   
  Some listening with the HE-6 after this break.
   

   
  Mark Eitzel's theatrically heartbreaking version of "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever" is rendered with every lachrymose breath and voice crack, well, intact. "Hello Amsterdam" rocks hard, but... man, that bass line is thick. Wow, it's like somebody upended a whole jar of nutella on that slice of toast. Well, these are alternate takes, not the album tracks, so maybe somebody was sleeping at the board.
   
  Okay. Right now. Why am I listening to such depressing stuff on a Friday night anyway? It's brilliant music but, um. Let's wake things up.
   
_What's Going On_ by Marvin Gaye is in the box and swinging. It's, um... not that much more cheerful. But oh man what a groove. James Jamerson is in the pocket and he's steering the ship. I remember Charlie Haden once saying in an interview that it's the bassist who keeps time, not the drummer. I don't think this has ever been as true before; and, um, it also kind of plays to that thing about the amp and the bass. It's, well, powerful. Tight. No farting. But it's really somewhere in the land of "a whole lot" or "too much". Not distracting, quite, but if I wasn't bobbing my head so much I might be worried. It's also made me notice, for the first time, a glitch in the horn section around 2:53 on "Mercy Mercy Me". This is an album I've listened to regularly for nigh on twenty years. So we have previously-unplumbed detail, for sure. If not for...
   
  ...and hey look. The loudness switch had been on the whole time (see photo). Its light is out and I hadn't noticed. _Click._
   
*This changes everything. Problems are swept away with the cleaning power of flatness!*
   
  Brother Marvin trading lines with his multitracked self and Eli Fountain's sax on "Wholy Holy" is sacred music. Jamerson's not controlling the proceedings any more but on "Inner City Blues" he's still running an essential smooth, funky counterpoint to Gaye's staccato scatting and tense poetry.
   
  I can't stop listening... It's time for something audiophile-approved: Cooder & Bhatt's _A Meeting By the River_. Friends, I have to tell you: You know it, you love it, you've heard everything there is to hear on it and you still return to it every so often. On the HE-6 and this receiver it's all that and a bag of bhel puri. Go and appreciate.
   
  HK 670: Twin powered thumbs up. Now it's time for cookies.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MrQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You're a bad man Scott
> 
> ...


 

 yes i am! LOL! more importantly ya gonna prove me right too & pick up that SX1250 arent ya?? cant have skylab get all the toys now can we? hehehe O & yeeeesssss thx god for tone controls. i feel for those with 'audiophile' amp with nothing but the vol. obviously they DONT have an K701/2 to poke their eardrums. LOL
   


  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Whoof. Sorry, man - if I could go back in time, I'd have warned you. (slow-mo of someone running towards the camera screaming "NOOOOOOO.....")
> 
> Look up the Friend or Foe mod; it helps a lot, albeit at the cost of weakening the soundstage, one of the K70x's worthwhile qualities.


 
   
  no worries bud. i had more than an idea of what to expect with the k702 but just thought these cans are a must have (atleast once) in this musical journey so's i know atad more of what im talking about. gotta admit it may not be my cup of tea though. thxs for the FoF mod tip.

  
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hey Scottie,
> 
> ...


 

 yup check'd out the mod & its pretty funky. not sure if its just me but the dynamat seem'd messy. certainly something to ponder on. thxs bro
   


  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I am sorry to hear that!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 thxs for the tips. i have it on 24/7 radio (12hrs music &12hr static) burn-in. hopefully it'll improve after a week or so. havnt done any extensive listening as yet but 1st impressions says im not sure these are keepers. they're certainly worth owning just for the experience though. no regrets & yes u are absolutely correct - the 517 does give it more bottom authority & lessen the tizziness while the pioneer SA7500 does the opposite. will certainly give these cans a fair shot before any judgements.
   
  O & dude ya my newest hero! mang u do have quite a number of these toys. do u ever stack em all against a wall & light up the wall of lights??? Boooooyaaaaaaaah!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





> O & dude ya my newest hero! mang u do have quite a number of these toys. do u ever stack em all against a wall & light up the wall of lights??? Boooooyaaaaaaaah!


 
  Oh, excellent idea! I will definitely try to light the wall with vintage stuff lights!! This thread and many your inputs made me investing in vintage stuff!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And hope you will enjoy AKG K702 later after burn-in!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  @ardgedee
  Your HK looks cool, what a beauty!!  I just wondering this thread only will increase the demand for all vintage stuff and push the price higher and higher.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> yes i am! LOL! more importantly ya gonna prove me right too & pick up that SX1250 arent ya?? cant have skylab get all the toys now can we?


 
   
  Heh. I'm already trying to justify buying it. I'm thinking 2nd rig in another part of the house. God I'm weak


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> ...and hey look. The loudness switch had been on the whole time (see photo). Its light is out and I hadn't noticed. _Click._
> 
> HK 670: Twin powered thumbs up. Now it's time for cookies.


 


  dont loudness (&tone) controls catch one off guard?? we're soo used to 'audiophile' flat no eq that these things seem so weird. i use the loudness with my vintage pro-linears whenever i listen at less than 10o'clk vol (which is prolly 99% time else i get yell'd - women! cant live wit em cant kill...). dont forget about the mute & tape monitor switches too as i thrown off sometimes when theres no sound.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Oh, excellent idea! I will definitely try to light the wall with vintage stuff lights!! This thread and many your inputs made me investing in vintage stuff!


 

 yup i do the wall of lights wheneva i can before wifey comes in & ruin the show...women! cant live wit em cant kill....! 
   


  Quote: 





mrq said:


> Heh. I'm already trying to justify buying it. I'm thinking 2nd rig in another part of the house. God I'm weak


 

 buddy over this side of the pond, we have main rigs, HT rigs, bedroom rigs, basement rigs, garage rigs, workshop rigs, study rigs, den rigs, backyard rigs, patio rigs, BBQ rigs, guest rigs, washroom rigs...u name it we rig & pimp it out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! already u englishmen are like 10 rigs behind. sooo yaaaaah u def need the 1250 for a rig somewhere.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottiebabie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> dont loudness (&tone) controls catch one off guard?? we're soo used to 'audiophile' flat no eq that these things seem so weird. i use the loudness with my vintage pro-linears whenever i listen at less than 10o'clk vol (which is prolly 99% time else i get yell'd - women! cant live wit em cant kill...). dont forget about the mute & tape monitor switches too as i thrown off sometimes when theres no sound.....


 
   
  The HK670 has a tone bypass switch, so I kept experimenting with the bass and treble knobs and the bypass switch to try to control that bass without ever looking at the loudness switch at the other end of the box.
   
  The front panel is minimal as major-label high-power receivers go. Far fewer lights, switches and controls. A little disappointing since I always like having more buttons to fidget with and more lights to be distracted by. But realistically, only thing I'm really missing is a -20dB mute switch.
   
  I'll have to find an outboard VU meter box to satisfy that need for more distraction.
   
   
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scottiebabie* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> buddy over this side of the pond, we have main rigs, HT rigs, bedroom rigs, basement rigs, garage rigs, workshop rigs, study rigs, den rigs, backyard rigs, patio rigs, BBQ rigs, guest rigs, washroom rigs...u name it we rig & pimp it out
> 
> ...





   
  Man I love that one episode of "Pimp My Ride" where Xzibit goes, "Yo dawg, we heard you like to sing in the shower, so we put a pair of Magnepans and Audio Research monoblocks in your tub so you can listen while you sing."
   
  (Okay... I wrote that as a joke but I just found out that the German version of the show is "Pimp My Whatever" because it's too difficult to make custom cars street-legal there.)


----------



## MrQ

Yay, I can see a new Head-fi video programme, _*Pimp My Rig  *hosted by Scottiebabie. _
   
_Is your vintage rig feeling a bit old_
_Is your DAC looking dowdy _
_Is your transport looking tired_
_Then pimp your rig_


----------



## Skylab

"I'll have to find an outboard VU meter box to satisfy that need for more distraction."

That's an easy fix - what you need it a vintage cassette deck


----------



## ardgedee

You're what they call an enabler, man.


----------



## sillysally

"Well raise my rent", I got my SX-650 and on a lark I tried my K701's, they sound as good if not better than my HE6's with the SX-650.
   
  The only reason why I had my K701 (stock) out was because of firing up my SX-650 for the first time, up till now if I blow them up it was no loss.
   
  The K701 sounds very good with the SX-650, all the range of the HE6's. There is no piercing highs and very nice low end bass along with very nice mids and a bigger/better/3D headstage.
   
  It is almost like the the high wattage of the SX-650 is overpowering the HE6's compared to driving the HE6's with my WA5LE.
  Yes the tonal quality of the SX-650 with the HE6 is very good along with the dynamic range, but its like the HE6's are shooting out the mids into your ears overpowering the background, but the strange thing is the background is there and it is in the right proportion to the mids.
   
  Anyway because of how good these K701's sound (go figure) with this SX-650, this makes for one very good and very inexpensive combo for the high SQ.
  I should add that the bass and treble settings are flat set at 0, along with loudness off, very well balanced set at 12:00.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> You're what they call an enabler, man.


 


  YUP:
   

   
  Just scored this one,  Nicer than the Sansui I bought before.  $45.  Cheap thrills!


----------



## wualta

You guys are my kinda peoples. Some of you have gone far beyond my cheapskate ways and are ready to ascend to the AudioKarma empyrean, which is paved with silver-faced monster receivers.
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Similar to how the LXI was made by Sanyo for Sears, the MCS receivers were made by Panasonic for JC Penney. ... what other electronic gear of that era are well-manufactured kit flying under the radar [?]
> 
> I got sniped out of a Heathkit AU-1500A a couple days ago... That's the model my dad built for our living room when I was a kid.


 
  The secret to buying old stuff is trying for the top of the line. Go for the biggest, heaviest, best-spec'd MCS and the most serious-looking LXI (some of which was made by Sherwood, or rather Sherwood's Korean parent company). I hope you get the Heathkit some day, because, well, dads are just cool, that's all, and like old electrolytics, they don't last forever.

  Quote: 





mrq said:


> Well thank goodness for tone controls and tone mode. I never been happier to see a bass control before.


 
   
  >snif<  So beautiful!
   
  Yes, the story of the K701 and -2 sounds very similar to the story of the K501. Dr. Gorike had this neat idea for increasing the feeling of openness in a semi-closed headphone, but some bass was inevitably traded off, and there were quality control problems that centered around that foam sheet that covers the baffle vents (which are in turn the simplified replacements for the Sextett's passive diaphragms), and how well and carefully it was glued down. With a powerful amp you can add in the missing bass and keep the extended soundstage. Or you can mod the baffle vents and leave your tone controls flat. Choice, she is good.


----------



## MrQ

That's lush Skylab. Wood ends, VU metres and a matching chrome finish, que bella.
   
*@sillysally* 'Shirley' you jest. 701 besting the HE-6! I really want that HE-6 now.
*@wualta *yes power rules and absolute power...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> "Well raise my rent", I got my SX-650 and on a lark I tried my K701's, they sound as good if not better than my HE6's with the SX-650.
> 
> The only reason why I had my K701 (stock) out was because of firing up my SX-650 for the first time, up till now if I blow them up it was no loss.
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you like it but I am listening now out of the headphne jack and love the sound the SX980 us more laid back with t a wider soundstage but the SX650 is driving these to nice levels can be more than 3-4 watts going through the jack so I have no  issue with overpowering but it does sound nice indeed, There is a resistor in the headphone jack also


----------



## ardgedee

Hm. It looks like Radio Shack sold a couple different stereo VU meters, a couple of which could even arguably be useful as well as entertaining. Unfortunately (for my purposes) it plugs into the speaker output rather than an auxiliary line out or tape out, so unless it's supposed to be run out of the same speaker taps the headphones or speakers are plugged into, I'm not sure of the point of it.
   
  [*edit:* On further research, I see the meter has high input impedance by design and meant to be wired in parallel with the currently active speaker. I'm guessing a 50-ohm HE-6 would be somewhat disruptive to what it considered high impedance, but otherwise, cool...]


----------



## scottiebabie

heyyyy Pimp Ma Rig sounds like a pretty cool idea fo sho!!! LOLOL. seriously though, buddies of mine have rigs everywhere round teh house since vintage receiver+speaker combos can be had for decently cheap esp when linked with home depots nomek cords. 
   
  on a (slightly) off topic note, as mentioned, i've had the K702s on 24/7 radio music/static combo 'cookin' since i got it with the JVC JR-S300. i've also slowly up the vol til output VU meters were bouncing btwn 25-50wpc!!! LOL. granted its off the resistor'd HO & calibrated for 8ohms too but i thought it was pretty funny nontheless. i could hear the static from quite a few rooms away...in the noisy day & insulated with bubble wrap in its case to boot! anyways just took a gander at the sound &....bass does seem fully & deeper with vocals having less bite. with a notch or 2 (+2-4dB) of the 'Sui 517s bass knob, this sucka's actually listenable - mite not seem huge but this coming from a albeit closet basshead, its something. will def keep at it for an other week or 2 at the very least. OTOH the headbands doing some funny stuff to the noggins......
   
  so Art, there is a practical application for having VU meters afterall besides the light show that is - good 'nuff reason to get a set fo sho! LOL


----------



## ardgedee

Yeah, Scott... if you're hairline-deprived, you might want to consider a sock mod for that headband, otherwise your friends will ask where'd you get those bumps on your head from. I can appreciate the K70x headphones being an experiment that almost but not quite succeeded, but the headband design was just plain not brilliant.
   
  I'm half-considering an LED VU meter. Some of the 2-channel units sold to club DJS have "bar mode" and "dot mode", the latter meaning a single LED is lit for each channel, running up and down the line as the music plays. It would look less of a piece than a nice old pair of bouncing needles, though.
   
  Keeping in mind that this is totally, completely unnecessary. Even in the context of everything else audiophilic.


----------



## Skylab

I think in the case of this Radio Shack one, you can plug it into the "B" speaker jacks, assuming you have a receiver with multiple speaker jacks and you are only using one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Realistic-APM-200-Peak-RMS-Audio-Power-Meter-RS-VU-/140557090849

 In the world of audio gear, this is pretty cheap at $60; on the other hand, I only paid $45 for that Pioneer tape deck I posted, and it not only has cool VU meters, it also plays tapes


----------



## ardgedee

Yup yup. That's exactly the one I spotted earlier, Skylab. This thread on Audio Karma discusses how it's supposed to be used and why.
   
  At the price it's spendier than your deck, but it's about in line with the low end of recent new and used two-channel LED units. For that matter, DIY kits cost about as much. So no matter which way I go, I'm looking at $60 and up unless I luck out at a rummage sale.
   
  I gather that competing models from Serious Audio Brands from back in the day start at some large multiple of this. For that matter, some other guys want $160 for the selfsame Realistic unit.
   
  Well, I guess I'd better go and buy it now, since discussions of vintage items here tend to make things spendier and harder to find...


----------



## ardgedee

The stereo is currently set up like this (retro ASCII graphic diagram!):
   

```
DAC | v Crossfeed | v HK670 --> [A] HE-6 \ -> [B] electret headphone adaptor -> desktop monitors
```
   
  So while there are two tape loops free, both speaker lines are claimed.


----------



## wualta

If you can get meters for your amp, I say go for it, though without calibration it's impossible to know how accurate the readings are. But what the meters will tell you is when you're getting close to clipping the amp, and that can happen with a 150-ohm headphone, as seen in this photo of my 100w/ch (8 ohms) Sanyo P55 amp driving a Yamaha YH-1 with hellacious amounts of bass boost supplied by an unseen Yamaha C-85 preamp with its parametric equalizer. Due to its high impedance, the headphone isn't drawing much current, so it's playing loudly and happily (and not melting like a fuse-- heating goes by the square of the current), but the amp is running out of power, since it can only supply roughly 5 watts max at the speaker out into 150 ohms. LEDs indicate peak clipping far more accurately than true VU meters, which take practice and training to interpret (for music-- tones are another matter), so try to find something with a red clip LED along with the bouncing needles to see if your amp is reaching its limits voltagewise. You don't want to clip your amp.
   

   
  By the way, it's entirely possible to overthink this and worry the fun right out of the enterprise, so trust your ears-- if you hear the onset of hardness or outright distortion, turn it down. Simple. For maximum enjoyment, get the accessory meters (likely to be more accurate for output power anyway) AND the yard sale miracle find mint condition cassette deck that doesn't need a new belt for $45. As Rod Serling said, this thread is actually part of the outer reaches of the AK Zone, and solving dilemmas by buying _both_ lemmas is the AK Way.


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta, i like that sanyo. it has pretty cool v-shape vu-meter. well, after i get my sansui 5000x amp fix i think i'm kinda done buying stuff up for awhile since now my set-up feels complete. after long,long search for a pair of akg 240 sextetts LP i finally found a pair locally for 15 bucks and is nearly brand new and perfect condition. never had anything replaced ever. all original and no signs of rotten foam or worn headband. everything near mint condition since owner told me only used it once. i heard each sextett sounds difference due to aging. i think i got lucky cause these sound extremely detailed...too detailed sometimes. every mistake is detected in the recording. people say they're suppose to sound gradoish...i don't hear it unless the recording intended a forward sound. these can be forward,bright,laidback if i hear it in the recording. only thing i tell it can't do well is have very low bass extension but that's fine by me but it can provide a nice impact(but not forceful) if it has it in the song(like lot of trance). midrange is what i notice the most these. simply godlike and the soundstage sounds like it bounces around outside my head which is really cool(nothing like speaker soundstage of course).


i think only receiver/amp i be hunting down when i have the money is a nice big sansui since i love sansui. so far i think i'm really satisfied with my system. just need to work on my room now more and get some more fiber glass and carpet to make my room sound more dead. i got like 55-60% done so far.


----------



## ardgedee

The APM-200 I just bought doesn't have an explicit clip light (it doesn't know what qualifies as clipping on any arbitrary amp) so instead it has a set of peak level LEDs set to trigger at designated intervals. Since the meters can display either a 2-watt range or a 200-watt range, the peak level intervals are .05, .15, .5, 1, and 2, or 100 times those values; there's also a 4/8 ohm input impedance switch on the back, for further fiddling.
   
  So hypothetically I can apply electrical tape over the lower peak LEDs so that the clipping peak levels are the only ones that throw red warning lights.


----------



## wualta

I like your black tape method! Just use the meter as a guide and you'll be fine. Most listening is done at surprisingly low levels. The rest of the power is used strictly to avoid distortion on peaks. Most listeners and their sources and headphones and other gear are good enough these days to hear clipping and avoid it. With lots of clean power, you'll end up training your ears even better. You'll never be able to go back to pipsqueak amps, no matter what their other virtues.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Well, I guess I'd better go and buy it now, since discussions of vintage items here tend to make things spendier and harder to find...


 


  Art just a thought here but one can also get a very nice power output display with standalone graphic eq's too. if u dont need one 'stat, then perhaps its wiser to wait til a vintage local unit comes on sale that suit your need plus u get a real Eq to boot. for sure they run out of the tape loop with a pass-thru to deactivate any line degradation. 
   
  i regularly see decent eqs (soundcraftsman, sansui, technics, jvc,etc etc) on CL from $10-50 or so. sounds like a win-win to me.


----------



## ardgedee

Yeah. Clipping's the least of my concerns with this particular amp; with headphones and speakers alike the volume knob is rarely above 8:00 on the dial, and that's true when I'm using the FM tuner or the aux input. Judging from the head-fi meets I've attended, my comfortable listening level is significantly quieter than others'.
   
  The occasional well-mastered album, with low average levels to provide more headroom (eg, _A Meeting By the River_) does require cranking the knob quite a bit. But that's not a bad thing either; there's room now. (I just wrote up my impressions regarding the HE-6, amps and headroom in another thread, so I'll save time and link to it here.)
   
  But hey, if I get to see a modest visual display with my music, I'm happy. If I get bored, it looks like I can swap the Realistic box for a DJ's VU meter more or less at cost.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Glad you like it but I am listening now out of the headphne jack and love the sound the SX980 us more laid back with t a wider soundstage but the SX650 is driving these to nice levels can be more than 3-4 watts going through the jack so I have no  issue with overpowering but it does sound nice indeed, There is a resistor in the headphone jack also


 
  I am sure you are right, but there is no comparison between the SX-650 and my WA5LE (with tube combo) driving the HE6's. So for the reasons I have already stated I see no reason to keep buying vintage receivers if I want to use my HE6's. And yes the HE6's are much better than the K701 if properly amp.
   
  btw, I used my front line system when I did my comparisons, just of-course changed amps.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Most listening is done at surprisingly low levels. The rest of the power is used strictly to avoid distortion on peaks. Most listeners and their sources and headphones and other gear are good enough these days to hear clipping and avoid it. With lots of clean power, you'll end up training your ears even better. You'll never be able to go back to pipsqueak amps, no matter what their other virtues.


 


  This is all very true.  My SX-1980 has integrated power meters, and even with speakers playing at VERY loud levels, I rarely get the meters past 10W.  The meters are calibrated for 8 ohms, and so their exact reading on headphones isn't accurate, but it's still very obvious that the power being drawn by the HE-6 is far, far, far below what such a huge amp can deliver, and there is no doubt this provides an incredible sense of ease with the HE-6 that none of my regular headphone amps can quite muster.  Will be interesting to see how the big vintage amps compare to the RSA Dark Star, though.


----------



## sillysally

If my SX-650 is any indicator to what you are saying about Watts, you still haven't heard what the HE6's can really do, sorry.
  And yes my SX-650 is a nice one.


----------



## Skylab

SillySally, they are not even close. The SX-650 is nice enough, but it is at the very low end of Pioneer receivers of the era. the SX-1980 I have is top of the line, and 270 watts per channel into 8 ohms. The 650 isn't even close to the same league as the 1980 in terms of power delivery, and no offense to anyone, it's just fact. The 650 has just more than 10% of the power that the 1980 can deliver.

The SX-650 is 35 wpc into 8'ohms. Since the Pioneers have resistors in the headphone jacks, the 650 probably provides somewhere between 2-3 watts or so into the HE-6'snimpedance via the headphone out. The SX-1980, OTOH, would be outputting over 20 wpc at least.

So no, SS, your experience with the SX650 is not at all analogous to mine. The 650 would deliver more power into the HE-6 from the speaker taps, of course, and from there, probably all the power that could ever be needed.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


skylab said:


> SillySally, they are not even close. The SX-650 is nice enough, but it is at the very low end of Pioneer receivers of the era. the SX-1980 I have is top of the line, and 270 watts per channel into 8 ohms. The 650 isn't even close to the same league as the 1980 in terms of power delivery, and no offense to anyone, it's just fact. The 650 has just more than 10% of the power that the 1980 can deliver.
> 
> The SX-650 is 35 wpc into 8'ohms. Since the Pioneers have resistors in the headphone jacks, the 650 probably provides somewhere between 2-3 watts or so into the HE-6'snimpedance via the headphone out. The SX-1980, OTOH, would be outputting over 20 wpc at least.
> 
> So no, SS, your experience with the SX650 is not at all analogous to mine. The 650 would deliver more power into the HE-6 from the speaker taps, of course, and from there, probably all the power that could ever be needed.


 
   
  Just wondering, why would Pioneer decide to output approx. 20WPC from the HPO of the SX1980?  Wouldn't that be unsafe for most headphones of that era (mostly dynamics, right?), and so, wouldn't it be unlikely that the power output (from the HPO) is that high?


----------



## moodyrn

sillysally said:


> I am sure you are right, but there is no comparison between the SX-650 and my WA5LE (with tube combo) driving the HE6's. So for the reasons I have already stated I see no reason to keep buying vintage receivers if I want to use my HE6's. And yes the HE6's are much better than the K701 if properly amp.
> 
> btw, I used my front line system when I did my comparisons, just of-course changed amps.




It's funny you would make a statement like that after trying a low end budget vintage. It's the same as if I tried a wa 3 and saying there's no reason trying a wa5 because of the results of the wa3. The difference between a budget vintage isn't just the amount of power but the components used, the power supply etc. A sx650 won't sound no where near as refined, clean, and dynamic as some of the higher end vintages myself and others own. The sx650 only gets you in the door the same way the wa3 gets you in the door when it comes to tubes. But to each his own.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


sphinxvc said:


> Just wondering, why would Pioneer decide to output approx. 20WPC from the HPO of the SX1980?  Wouldn't that be unsafe for most headphones of that era (mostly dynamics, right?), and so, wouldn't it be unlikely that the power output (from the HPO) is that high?


 

 If the headphone out is going to be driven by the main amplifier circuit, there's just so much damping of the amplifier output possible before it starts affecting sound quality at the headphone jack. The only other practical alternative is a dedicated headphone amp, and that's costlier to deploy than a bunch of resistors.
   
  I haven't tried the HE-6 on the HK670's headphone jack (I plan to), but I'm half-inclined to suspect differences in sound quality would be subtle compared to the speaker taps. The Sextett sounds about as spacious as I've heard it, although it sounded even better on The Fisher tubes ("midrange magic" ftw).
   
  Sextetts are surprisingly good vanguards for the HE-6 in one way. They've got high impedance (600 ohm) but are reasonably efficient (94 dB); in contrast the HE-6 is moderate impedance (50 ohm) and is unreasonably inefficient (83 dB). Both headphones require roughly the same amount of juice to be heard, and in my listening the volume knob is set similarly for either of them. I would imagine the natures of the loads they present to amplifiers differ (and their sound signatures certainly differ), but in broad strokes if one sounds good, the other will.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Yes of-course the 650 is entry level. What I am talking about is Wattage and what I find the basic's to be driving the HE6, not the over all quality.


----------



## moodyrn

The sx650 is still low end and doesn't compete with higher end vintage when it comes to both wattage and quality. It's just like the analogy I used earlier with the wa3 and wa5. The wa3 sounds as much like a wa5 as much as a sx650 sounds like a sx1000 series. It's the same with any other vintage brand.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes of-course the 650 is entry level. What I am talking about is Wattage and what I find the basic's to be driving the HE6, not the over all quality.


 


  besides just the basic wattage to drive the HE6, the major difference btwn a sx650 & say the sx1250 is the power supply. if u ever had or have a chance to see it, u'll know exactly what accounts for all the size & weight differences. even though both amps share similar topology, the sx1250's increased (major understatement here) power supply & its associated componentry brings multiple advantages.
   
  a larger PS provides a larger reservoir of electrical energy - less or even zero changes as current load increases
  a larger PS works faster & easier esp for demanding loads
  a larger PS as a (usually) bigger & better transformer which by itself is a better electrical filter - better filtering & hence better protection from high frequency pollution generated by  other electrical devices eg.dimmer switchs, electric motors, switching ps's, etc etc & even its own low frequency pollution.
   
  at every upgrade in power supply, the sound quality increases which may manifests as less metallic, more natural, your amplifier seems to be powerful and low frequencies are more present & so on. granted the power demands of headphones (yes even beasts such as HE6) are minute compared with home speakers, the benefits of better PS are not negated.
   
  though with similar topology, to say the SX650 is equivalent to a SX1250 even when driving only headphones is certainly at the very least, a misnomer. just my $0.02 ofcos.


----------



## Skylab

Look what I picked up locally today:
   

   
  Marantz 2440 Quad adapter. Four beautiful blue VU meters!  I need to get a wood cabinet for it.


----------



## ardgedee

Within any given product line, there's a common correlation between the claimed power output and the general quality of the unit. In other words, the TOTL for any season for any manufacturer tended to not only be the most featureful, it was also the biggest and loudest. As you walk down the product line, the features disappear, the wattage shrinks, and more corners are cut in the components manifest and build quality.
   
  Now, it's not inherent that more power == more better, even in the solid state world. This is purely a rule of thumb regarding the context we're discussing: Comparing receivers within a single product line by a given manufacturer.


----------



## ardgedee

In reading up on old receivers, I've seen a couple mentions of the 1970s Loudness War in home audio. Unlike the Loudness War of recent years (which refers to amplitude compression in recorded music), this is in reference to the escalation of amplifier specs for marketing purposes. Since wattage was the easiest marketing hook (similar to how CPU speeds have been in the personal computer era), that's what manufacturers emphasized in their product designs. You can easily see this if you compare the TOTL receivers of 1971 with their counterparts from 1978.
   
  So the marketing for receivers and amps trained the home stereo buying public to expect that quality could be quantified by comparing the wattage different receivers had. And, in turn, they put their best efforts into their biggest receivers, and made ever-bigger receivers every product cycle to one-up the competition. That's the main reason behemoths like the Sansui G-33000 exist.
   
  Not all manufacturers played along. While the leading Japanese companies were showcasing 300 wpc receivers, Harmon/Kardon's TOTL were in the 45-60 wpc range -- although they also followed the general pattern of making their nicest products their most powerful. The weaker stuff is likely to be a lot more than just lower-powered versions of the nicer stuff (although that can have fringe benefits; witness the popularity of the warmer-sounding AU-717 compared to the higher-spec AU-919)
   
  And, um... Sorry, I got distracted.
   
  Skylab, buddy, it might be getting time to admit you've got a problem. We're here for you, pal. You can talk things out. Here, I'll help you with that Marantz... it'll just weigh you down... you'll thank us for it...


----------



## Skylab

LOL! Oh yeah...I have a problem alright...no doubt...

I am determined to become CAPTAIN MIDNIGHT


----------



## mralexosborn

I am thinking about getting a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. Is the Marantz 2220B a good match?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Look what I picked up locally today:
> 
> 
> 
> Marantz 2440 Quad adapter. Four beautiful blue VU meters!  I need to get a wood cabinet for it.


 



 I saw four sleepy eyes! congrats!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now I just found that vintage bugs spread faster than I expected. More, more, bring moooooooooooooore!!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> I am thinking about getting a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. Is the Marantz 2220B a good match?


 


  I know Cornwall is very efficient,  but do you think 20w is a little shy. Why not go 2230 at least, or 2270 (the one most people agree warmest)?


----------



## Frank I

Silly sally got a commotion going on here. First the SX980 out of the speaker taps lets my HE6 really fit the bill. it realizes all its potential and sounds excellent. The SX 650 albeit entry level for the pioneer Silver series blows away the entry level Marantz 220B and the Sansui G4500. It may be the beggining of the chain for silver receivers but the Marantz 2220B I had and the G4500 Sansui I have does not compete with it. The SX650 while inexpensive still weighs a ton and is very detailed and appears to be much more powerful than the 35W its puts out. I still think the hE6 out of the headphone jack sounds grerat while it does not have the headroom of the SX980 which is 80W and cost more than twice retail of the SX650 get me there all the way and to get any more power for my HE6  is not necessary in my system as I do not run speakers off the SX980 and never will and if I did this amp putting out more than the stated watt and weighs close to 50 lbs id sufficient for me.  For people looking for an inexpensive quality amplification for the HE6 I would still give my recommendation for the SX650 and I would give it way more over than either the Marantz 2220B which could not drive the HE6 out of the headphone jack and the G4500 which can but not anywhere as good as the Pioneer 650. So for me my reference SS is the SX980 and for easier use and alternate I choose the SX650 but I will use it more much more than the Sansui G4500 which really gets not time here. So to clear up the preferences the SX980 at 80W putting out 15W into 50 ohms off the speaker taps sounds better but the retail is twice the cost of the SX650 but I would also say in comparision to the other two same price Marantz 2220B and the Sansui G4500 the SX650 plays well above its price point and yes it is good enought to drive the HE6 out of the jack and will sound better out speaker terminals but since I use the Sx980 no need for me to do that. The sansui I can lift upo with no effort and it weighs nothing same price and not the same built as the Silverface 650


----------



## ardgedee

If amplifiers and receivers were Pokemon, Skylab would be the Pokemon Master.


----------



## Meewoo

I just want to piont out that Sillysally's sx-650 might need refurbish. Every vintage stuff has it's own sound due to different condition.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> If amplifiers and receivers were Pokemon, Skylab would be the Pokemon Master.


 


  Yes, he is the Master.
   
  Now I just wonder why he didn't go to monster piece, but pick up the low model of Quad amp?? Will he begin to train little monster??


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I am sure you are right, but there is no comparison between the SX-650 and my WA5LE (with tube combo) driving the HE6's. So for the reasons I have already stated I see no reason to keep buying vintage receivers if I want to use my HE6's. And yes the HE6's are much better than the K701 if properly amp.
> 
> btw, I used my front line system when I did my comparisons, just of-course changed amps.


 

 Comparing an entry level to a very expensive tube amp makes little if any sense to me. I paid 35.00 for the SX650 so for the price and it is also solid state its playing well about its price poin but when I want to critically listen to my HE6 it is with the SX980 out of the speaker taps so i am seeing the 15W going in to it and I only invested 180.00 for that one so I am not in the thousands and its good enough and gives me all the headroom i could want and the detail is incredible as is the transparency. Now the bigger and much more powerful Sx980 gives me all i could want and for me it drives the he6 while my 2400.00 Decware setup sounds better on small scale recordings it cannot drive them on the large scale sacd recordings it just runs out of power where the Pioneer SX980 does not run out of power and has headroom for large scale classical recordings. But for small stuff the decware is a tube amp and sounds more detailed with a nice stage but will fall short on the classical genre for me.


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> Yes, he is the Master.
> 
> Now I just wonder why he didn't go to monster piece, but pick up the low model of Quad amp?? Will he begin to train little monster??



LOL! That's because I won't be using the amp part - I got the 2240 purely for the display. Captain Midnight ahoy, baby!


----------



## RexAeterna

sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Just wondering, why would Pioneer decide to output approx. 20WPC from the HPO of the SX1980?  Wouldn't that be unsafe for most headphones of that era (mostly dynamics, right?), and so, wouldn't it be unlikely that the power output (from the HPO) is that high?




yes it will kill any headphone easily if it outputted 20 watts into the drivers. i am not sure on the design of planer magnetics since i do not have much experience with them(i only used a few fostex passive monitors before)

headphone out is usually limited by resistors and resistors only go up to 2w at a specific value. you can find 5w resistors as well sometimes but most of the values can be too high for headphone use. higher the value like say if the resistors are 680ohm that will drop more voltages down to the headphone out from the power amp section. compared to say using standard 220ohm resistors. you can bypass this limitation by removing the resistors or re-wiring your headphones to be used off the speaker taps but should be carful cause off the taps your feeding the headphones voltages and not milivolts anymore so you can easily fry them and damage your ears permently if not careful.

each resistor has a specific limit in wattage output but if you plug say a headphone of 50ohms into headphone out using 680ohm@2w resistors it will allow you to pull more current if needed cause no matter what headphone you stick in, it will drop down the same amount of voltage to the drivers. so half of 680 is 340ohms. so if i stuck headphone in rated at 340ohms i can deliver 4 watts to it and lower the resistance even more,ect.


----------



## Skylab

The resistor in the SX1980 is 150 ohm. It will deliver 20+ wpc (actually if I did the math right it's more like 40 wpc) if you were dumb enough to crank the volume up that far. But I cannot imagine anyone ever turning the volume up all the way.


----------



## mralexosborn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I know Cornwall is very efficient,  but do you think 20w is a little shy. Why not go 2230 at least, or 2270 (the one most people agree warmest)?


 


  Because I already have 2220B and cash is short for a 15 year old after emptying my pockets for the Cornwalls and MAYBE even a tube pre amp.


----------



## wualta

Skylab's point about dumbth being the governing factor here is spot on.
   
*If* you like your music loud (and back in the '70s loud was new, dangerous, exciting), there are two ways to kill your speakers or headphones, and the first is counterintuitive: too little power, in which case turning the volume knob up too high makes the amp scream itself hoarse. All that distortion represents power in the ultrasonic range heating up the voice coils in your tweeters with frequencies they can't reproduce, so they just sit there getting hotter, like fuses. A good friend of mine fried a Heil tweeter using a Marantz 2230. That's hard to do!
   
  Once you do it, you learn the lesson that you're much more likely to hurt your speakers or headphones by clipping an amp than you are by overpowering them, and so, sadder but wiser, you buy the Monster Amp or the Monster Receiver. No more clipping for you. But suddenly the picture changes, and you realize that if you're dumb enough to crank the volume on the preamp high enough, you have enough power on hand to destroy something, so you start to worry. The good news is that this turns out to be even harder to do than the above method, because the sound will be so loud you won't be able to keep the headphones on or stay in the room with the speakers. Clean power, even if it's enough to make the drivers in your headphones jump right out of the cups onto the table, is much safer, not to mention nicer to listen to, than power delivered by an undersized power supply. 300 watts per channel is enough to destroy most speakers. So you don't turn it up that loud. 20 watts is more than enough to destroy most headphones. Same solution. There's enough power in that wall outlet to kill you and all of your friends.. so you don't stick a fork in there while grabbing a faucet. Same thing. Own the powa but respeck the powa and you and your speakers and headphones will live a long life.
   
  What became of my friend? He bought my Dyna 400 and some Electro-Voice Sentry IIIs and lived a loud and happy life.


----------



## mralexosborn

I look at this beauty and think I can rent out my room for a while. Any other super amps for a bit less?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


mralexosborn said:


> I look at this beauty and think I can rent out my room for a while. Any other super amps for a bit less?


 
   
   
  Prices are kinda' random in vintageland, so it depends on what you have in mind. The models everybody wants are getting bid up high, so the best thing to do is research the upper end of the line of less popular brands and see if there's anything there that crowds are passing by.
   
  If you want a good idea of how ridiculous the popular stuff is getting, somebody's currently selling a Sansui AU 20000 integrated amp, there are twenty bids on it and the price has been driven up to $151 with a day and a half to go. The unit doesn't even work - you have to look at the seller's photos to see that it's missing a power transformer.
   
  On the other hand, last week a big-shouldered ol' Sansui G9700 went for under $400 because the seller had mislisted it...
   
  In general, the big boxes by Panasonic/Technics, Marantz, Yamaha, and Sansui are popular. Specific models from other brands (Harmon/Kardon, Luxman, NAD, Onkyo, etc.) also draw crowds. Some brands seem to be sleepers (Nikko, Denon, Akai), mostly because their 1970s-era receivers are sufficiently obscure the market doesn't know what to do with 'em.
   
  Some models fly under the radar -- MCS was a JC Penney but the hardware was by Panasonic; similarly, Sears' LVX brand was built by Onkyo -- and if you know what to look for, you can get a good deal.
   
  I've got a receiver I'm happy with (mostly - the AUX line seems a little dodgy at the mo', but I'm loving the sound otherwise). It's a HK670, one of Harmon/Kardon's top-of-the-line receivers, but since collectors are attuned primarily to the HK930 and HK730, the price for mine didn't get bid up high and I ended up doing pretty well, bang-for-buck wise. Even if it's not as _nice_ in all possible ways as the HK930, it has gotten me extremely close at -- as far as I can tell -- about a fifth of the price.
   
  There is a lot of good equipment from the 70s. With the exception of some of the really excessive statement pieces, _all this stuff was mass-produced in large factories_. There are hundreds of thousands of perfectly fine receivers out there; some small fraction of them are always circulating on Ebay, Craigslist, yard sales, and by word of mouth.  There are various websites attempting to index many of these products -- either because they're fans of some specific brand or because they sell their repair services -- and the nitty-gritty of old equipment is an active topic of conversation on other audio boards. It's relatively easy to research any arbitrary model as long as it's not too rare. As long as you don't get fixated on landing some specific model as soon as possible, you'll be able to snag something good relatively quickly; just keep your mind open and your eyes alert.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> besides just the basic wattage to drive the HE6, the major difference btwn a sx650 & say the sx1250 is the power supply. if u ever had or have a chance to see it, u'll know exactly what accounts for all the size & weight differences. even though both amps share similar topology, the sx1250's increased (major understatement here) power supply & its associated componentry brings multiple advantages.
> 
> a larger PS provides a larger reservoir of electrical energy - less or even zero changes as current load increases
> a larger PS works faster & easier esp for demanding loads
> ...


 



 Yes I always would like a better and bigger power supply and I am a believer in that. But there are others that run balanced line tests with some very good testing equipment that will disagree biased on the test results, of-course saying that the maker didn't include flaws in the design.
   
  I never was saying that the SX650 was equivalent to the SX1250. All I was doing is getting a feel for how a silver face Pioneer SX would drive the HE6's with its higher wattage compared to my WA5LE and its lower wattage but huge power supply, and the fact that the WA5LE is a 300B tube headphone amp and tubes in it makes for some differences.
   
  I also said that the SX650 is a very nice sounding amp for the HE6 or the K701, and for the money it is a good way to go if you are on a budget. I also said that what the SX650 does for the K701's makes it a very nice budget combo.
   
  Just to be clear I am talking about the SXxxxx over all sound signature for use with the HE6 headphones only, not speakers. I am sure that the high end SXxxxx are better, but what I don't like is how my SX650 projects the sound using my HE6's, not the SQ. And as far as volume levels go using my SX650 I can't go over 9:30 on the volume knob, so I would say that there is a lot of volume headroom with my SX650 and I am not taxing the SX650 in anyway.


----------



## wualta

Quote:


mralexosborn said:


> I look at this beauty and think I can rent out my room for a while. Any other super amps for a bit less?


 

 The old Dyna ST-400 is nifty to look at and weighs a ton and is historically significant as arguably the first affordable "super" amp, but really, it didn't sound all that great. There was no doubt that there were 400 real watts there, but it didn't have the smoothness or transparency of later designs (don't forget, it dates to 1972). Quite an achievement for its day, but you can do better, and for less. The nostalgia factor (and the hypnotic blue meter option) pushes up the price of Dyna stuff beyond reason. And getting proprietary parts for old Dyna stuff is sometimes hard because Dyna's been out of business for 30 years. Have you considered under the radar brands like Sanyo, Hitachi, Ashly, Soundcraftsmen, or Nikko?


----------



## mralexosborn

I will check those brands out. Any websites to purchase equipment of that nature short of Ebay, Craigslist, and Audiogon?


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Yes I always would like a better and bigger power supply and I am a believer in that. But there are others that run balanced line tests with some very good testing equipment that will disagree biased on the test results, of-course saying that the maker didn't include flaws in the design.
> 
> I never was saying that the SX650 was equivalent to the SX1250. All I was doing is getting a feel for how a silver face Pioneer SX would drive the HE6's with its higher wattage compared to my WA5LE and its lower wattage but huge power supply, and the fact that the WA5LE is a 300B tube headphone amp and tubes in it makes for some differences.
> 
> ...


 

 understood & i certainly wasnt trying to imply u meant anything by your SX650 experiences. to be honest, personally i didnt like how the pioneer SX nor SA series drove my 5LE orthos either - my fav being a Sansui AU517 which also happens to sound best with a newly acquired K702. however my HD650 (& a Yuin PK1 too) syn'd very well with either the SX & SA pioneers so it still boils down to synergistic pairings mixed with subjective perferences to unleash optimum SQ.
   
  all i meant was that a SX650 does not come close to encompassing nor is it a fair representation of the 'vintage' experience. even within the SX family, there's a mulitude of factors to differenciate btwn the models not the least of which is the old adage of "Power supply with amplifiers is 80% of the game" regardless of output wattage. plus the comparison of the SX650 with your multi$kilo full tube WA5 is not even close to apples to oranges. if one is seeking that level of performance in vintage SS power, then mite i suggest a Pioneer M-22 Series 20 30wpc Class A amp which even now, will give any of the modern Pass Firstwatt or Aleph series more than a fright or 2.
   
  as far as output needed for a HE6, i've found even a Harman Kardon 230 receiver at 10wpc drove my 5LE beyond ear poppin volumes so its not just a mere factor of power. its the quality of power behind that 1 or 2 watts that says yay or nay. 
   
  again no offense intended but merely trying to give a fairer perspective of the 'vintage' experience.


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> The old Dyna ST-400 is nifty to look at and weighs a ton and is historically significant as arguably the first affordable "super" amp, but really, it didn't sound all that great. There was no doubt that there were 400 real watts there, but it didn't have the smoothness or transparency of later designs (don't forget, it dates to 1972). Quite an achievement for its day, but you can do better, and for less. The nostalgia factor (and the hypnotic blue meter option) pushes up the price of Dyna stuff beyond reason. And getting proprietary parts for old Dyna stuff is sometimes hard because Dyna's been out of business for 30 years. Have you considered under the radar brands like Sanyo, Hitachi, Ashly, Soundcraftsmen, or Nikko?




yea sanyo is great for turntables but i never tried their amps. also nikko are amazing if you can find one in good condition and great bedroom amps or even for the living room or office use. i like some hitachi's as well and they can be sleepers. i haven't experience much hitachi's besides my godfather's massive hitachi integrated DC amp(forgot what model) and my little hitachi ha-2 amp i found at a local goodwill for 5 bucks. my little hitachi might not pair well with my big floor towers but it sure sounds amazing using it as a dedicated headphone amp for my 600ohm akg 240 sextetts LP. i even like it over my big class A yamaha R-9 receiver and like it almost as much as my sansui 5000x receiver driving it when it comes to my headphone use.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> understood & i certainly wasnt trying to imply u meant anything by your SX650 experiences. to be honest, personally i didnt like how the pioneer SX nor SA series drove my 5LE orthos either - my fav being a Sansui AU517 which also happens to sound best with a newly acquired K702. however my HD650 (& a Yuin PK1 too) syn'd very well with either the SX & SA pioneers so it still boils down to synergistic pairings mixed with subjective perferences to unleash optimum SQ.
> 
> all i meant was that a SX650 does not come close to encompassing nor is it a fair representation of the 'vintage' experience. even within the SX family, there's a mulitude of factors to differenciate btwn the models not the least of which is the old adage of "Power supply with amplifiers is 80% of the game" regardless of output wattage. plus the comparison of the SX650 with your multi$kilo full tube WA5 is not even close to apples to oranges. if one is seeking that level of performance in vintage SS power, then mite i suggest a Pioneer M-22 Series 20 30wpc Class A amp which even now, will give any of the modern Pass Firstwatt or Aleph series more than a fright or 2.
> 
> ...


 

  

 NP, I never took offense to you or your posts. Matter of fact I agree with what you are saying, the proof is in my 80 pound Woo with its four huge primary copper and secondary silver transformers.
  And yes I always knew the comparison would be apples and coconuts, but I had to put a toe in the water first and hear if I wanted to add a new vise to my addiction.


----------



## BmWr75

Sansui G-22000 for sale in Barter Town over on AudioKarma.org.  Seller asking $1400.  You have to be an AK subscriber to access Barter Town forum.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> The old Dyna ST-400 is nifty to look at and weighs a ton and is historically significant as arguably the first affordable "super" amp, but really, it didn't sound all that great. There was no doubt that there were 400 real watts there, but it didn't have the smoothness or transparency of later designs (don't forget, it dates to 1972). Quite an achievement for its day, but you can do better, and for less. The nostalgia factor (and the hypnotic blue meter option) pushes up the price of Dyna stuff beyond reason. And getting proprietary parts for old Dyna stuff is sometimes hard because Dyna's been out of business for 30 years. Have you considered under the radar brands like Sanyo, Hitachi, Ashly, Soundcraftsmen, or Nikko?


 


  Indeed.  I had one of these for quite a few years, and used it as a subwoofer amp (back in the days before all subs were powered).  In that application it was great, and SOOOOO cool to look at.  But used to drive your main speakers, it's pretty unrefined and grainy. 
   
  Note that if you find one where the chassis is in good shape and the meters work, you could turn it into a great sounding amp by sending it to Audio by Van Alstine and having them put their audio circuits in it.  Basically all he keeps is the chassis and the transformer.  But that will cost you $1,200.


----------



## sillysally

State of the art meets "Vintage" Stereo 2ch Integrated/Receiver.
   
  I think I understand now what I was hearing and why I was saying what I was saying about how my SX-650 projected the soundstage in my HE-6's.
  I was using my main audio system to compare the SX-650, so that included my Smyth Realiser A8 in my audio chain. Anyway the SX650 being a stereo/mono speaker receiver/amp would not except properly a Binaural signal that the Realiser A8 recreates, so the SX650 was distorting the audio signal/soundstage. On the other hand my WA5 is a headphone amp and made for this type of signal.
  Here is a copy/paste from the link below that explains what I was hearing.
  "In stereophonics, the reproduced sound is distorted by crosstalk, where signals from either speaker reach not only the intended ear, but the opposite ear, causing comb filtering that distorts timbre of central voices, and creating false “early reflections” due to the delay of sound reaching the opposite ear. In addition, auditory images are bounded between left (L) and right (R) speakers, usually positioned at ±30° with respect to the listener, thereby including 60°, only 1/6 of the horizontal circle, with the listener at the center. Human hearing can locate sound from directions not only in a 360° circle, but a full sphere."
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiophonics
  You may want to read more about Binaural, see link.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
   
  On a side note, the tonal quality of the audio was clearer/livelier using the Realiser but not how the SX650 projected the soundstage/timbre of central voices for my HE6's, that was bad. I did hook up the SX650 to my Oppo BD-95 using the dedicated (ES9018 dac) two Ch stereo rca analog outs directly to my SX650, the soundstage in my HE6's sounded ok coming from a stereo amp.
   
  Conclusion, speaker Receiver's like my SX650 are designed for speakers, headphones are just a after thought.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> State of the art meets "Vintage" Stereo 2ch Integrated/Receiver.
> 
> I think I understand now what I was hearing and why I was saying what I was saying about how my SX-650 projected the soundstage in my HE-6's.
> I was using my main audio system to compare the SX-650, so that included my Smyth Realiser A8 in my audio chain. Anyway the SX650 being a stereo/mono speaker receiver/amp would not except properly a Binaural signal that the Realiser A8 recreates, so the SX650 was distorting the audio signal/soundstage. On the other hand my WA5 is a headphone amp and made for this type of signal.
> ...


 

 Wrong you are. these headphone receivers jacks are better than any SS head amps I owned includeding the 700 Concerto. You mayy not think so but the receivers were designed with headphones in mind name a few ss amps that can drive the HE6 you wont find many if any


----------



## Frank I

So the Woo 5 speaker amp should then also be discarded as it was designed as a speaker amp silly sally. Thats the same reverse scenario


----------



## WNBC

My first vintage 'late 1970s' integrated amplifier, the Sansui AU-717.  Picked it up from a seller on craigslist yesterday.  I will be the 3rd owner but both previous owners kept it pristine.  Awesome amp.  Power galore, definitely conservatively rated at 85 watts per channel.
   
  Drives the ortho HE-4 right from the headphone output ease.  It's so true these vintage receivers/amps have better headphone outs.  And the design of this amp is spectacular.  Even my wife thought this thing was worth it. 
   
  Any thoughts on this upgrade service.  Replacement of transistors, capacitors, etc. Seems like basically a check up but possibly worth it because I would like this amp to last for many more years.  I don't know how to replace these things on my own so a good preemptive strike to get this service done.  To my knowledge no work has been done on this amp.  The previous owner cleaned it by blowing out any internal dust.  No leaking caps right now.  30 year old amp, wait for an issue?
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sansui-Au-717-Professional-UPGRADE-Service-/250518363864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a540eded8#ht_1341wt_905
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sansui-Au-717-Professional-REPAIR-Service-/260508609509?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D250518363864%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D277881005347035232#ht_1616wt_905


----------



## MrQ

Nice amp


----------



## ardgedee

Some conventional wisdom says the caps should be replaced simply because it's time; others say wait and observe.
   
  If in doubt, or you want to be proactive, find a tech who'll diagnose it for a bench fee. Your friendly local hi-fi shop will do it or make a referral.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the advice.  The previous owner said it's in such good shape that it will probably out live me if I take good care of it.  
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Some conventional wisdom says the caps should be replaced simply because it's time; others say wait and observe.
> 
> If in doubt, or you want to be proactive, find a tech who'll diagnose it for a bench fee. Your friendly local hi-fi shop will do it or make a referral.


----------



## Meewoo

@WNBC
  Welcome to Sui AU-X17 club lead by scottie!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  When I open my 517 up, I was amazed by the clean and considerate design. I never see this kind of design before, I thought even best Sony ES line inner layer out can't compete with Sansui. And even women know the beauty of x17!
  And sound? I think scottie gave the best description....
  About refurbish, everyone has his/her opinion, I would like to fix it when it needs. If you want to refurbish right now, you can look info on AK. There are Sansui gurus provide their pro service.
  And most important, enjoy your music!!


----------



## scompton

After the posts talking about EQ and loudness, I decided to try it out with my Fostex T30 with XB700 pads.  The pads made the normally bass heavy T30 bass lean.  I hit the loudness button on my STA-2200 and it was way too much.  Two clicks on the bass knob with the turnover at 150Hz sound very good.  Both got the bottom light on the view meter to light up.  First time I've seen that and it's only intermittent.


----------



## wualta

Quote:  





> yea sanyo is great for turntables but i never tried their amps. also nikko are amazing if you can find one in good condition ...


 
  That is the trick with vintage gear. You have to be a bit of a gambler and not afraid to spend some money to learn. 
   
  It wasn't just you--_ nobody_ tried Sanyo's amps. That's why you can get the good ones (there aren't that many, but they *are* good) for reasonable amounts. Similarly, if you know how to pick and choose your Radio Shack stuff, you can get some very nice and affordable gear.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Indeed.  I had one of these for quite a few years, and used it as a subwoofer amp.  But used to drive your main speakers, it's pretty unrefined and grainy.


 
  That's how I'd describe the Dyna Stereo 400 too. I listened to what went in, then listened to what came out, which is something you can do with headphones that you can't do with speakers. When I heard the difference, I sold the amp. Someone wanting a Stereo 400 would be better advised to look for Dyna's own improved version, the Stereo 416, but be prepared for sticker shock.


  Quote: 





scompton said:


> I hit the loudness button on my STA-2200 and it was way too much.  Two clicks on the bass knob with the turnover at 150Hz sounds very good.  Both got the bottom light on the meter to light up.  First time I've seen that and it's only intermittent.


 
  It's so gloriously handy to have a choice of turnover frequencies that I would never recommend a preamp that didn't have 'em, and an integrated amp would have to be pretty darn good otherwise if _*it*_ didn't have 'em. The STA-2200's tone controls are not elaborate or fancy, but they are effective.
   
  Scompton now has an idea how much bass was being injected into my carelessly-glued AKG K501 (or my HOK 80 or my SE-500)  when I say the bass control was maxed and the loudness was on.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Scompton now has an idea how much bass was being injected into my carelessly-glued AKG K501 (or my HOK 80 or my SE-500)  when I say the bass control was maxed and the loudness was on.


 

 That's a lot of bass, but even a good K501 doesn't compare bass wise to the T30.


----------



## RexAeterna

sillysally said:


> State of the art meets "Vintage" Stereo 2ch Integrated/Receiver.
> 
> I think I understand now what I was hearing and why I was saying what I was saying about how my SX-650 projected the soundstage in my HE-6's.
> I was using my main audio system to compare the SX-650, so that included my Smyth Realiser A8 in my audio chain. Anyway the SX650 being a stereo/mono speaker receiver/amp would not except properly a Binaural signal that the Realiser A8 recreates, so the SX650 was distorting the audio signal/soundstage. On the other hand my WA5 is a headphone amp and made for this type of signal.
> ...




the receiver probably distorting cause your using a sound processor(DSP). i can listen to binaural recordings fine on my vintage gear and no need for a sound processor to emulate a binaural recording. if it was recorded as a binaural track then it will come through as a binaural recording. as for headphone out section. i don't see how since these old amps rely on a true ''push-pull'' discrete circuit design not just for speaker use but the headphone out is ran off the same power amp section and tied to the speaker outputs usually accompanied by a resistor for both the left and right channel to ensure the user of not accidently frying their headphones and damaging their hearing. if it was using a op-amp chip then yea it can be considered a ''second thought''

from what i understand lot of these headphone amps or soundcards with headamps rely on op-amp design with just couple dropping resistors usually,even the expensive ones. not hating on headamps. just saying. maybe that's why as well, lot of these headphone amp designers won't release schematic diagrams of their product i'm guessing.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





scompton said:


> That's a lot of bass, but even a good K501 doesn't compare bass wise to the T30.


 
  You got THAT right. Just saying that a good receiver with properly set up tone stage can really add some grunt to a headphone that never wanted to. If there wasn't a big power supply behind it, though, having all that EQ would be futile.
   
  WNBC, love that Sansui. I'd have one too, if my seller had had any notion how to pack a large metal object. Any notion at all. But no.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





frank i said:


> So the Woo 5 speaker amp should then also be discarded as it was designed as a speaker amp silly sally. Thats the same reverse scenario


 

 No not really, the WA5 is designed as a headphone amp, the speaker amp part of the WA5 is just a after thought. That's why I got the WA5LE instead of the WA5, anyway I have a Onkyo 705AV for my 7.1 surround speaker system.
   
  But for the most part you are right, the WA5 as a speaker amp is not that good, but for a headphone amp it is great and is one of the only high end headphone amps that can drive the HE6's properly.
   
  Rule of thumb as I know it is that receiver amps like my SX650, Onkyo 705, Denon 3930 and others, rings true.
  As I said as long as you feed the headphone jack of the SX650 or any of the other speaker amps I have had a 2ch stereo signal its fine. But just adding a headphone jack and resistors to a receiver like my SX650 speaker amp, doesn't turn it into a headphone amp. Just as adding speaker taps to a WA5 doesn't turn it into a great speaker amp also.
   
  Anyway we are getting away from my point about Binaural and what the differences are when you do use Binaural signal in a non headphone amp as opposed to a real headphone amp like the WA5/LE to drive the HE6's. I am sure there are exception's to this but I haven't heard one using a speaker receiver.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> The previous owner said it's in such good shape that it will probably out live me if I take good care of it.


 


  & for sure he aint too far off. its up to u if wanna go all out & fully refurb the 717, if it we me, i'd wait a bit & do some listening 1st to see if its a keeper -for the next 30 odd yrs- before plunking down the coin. also if i were going to do it, i'd go all the way including upgrading the power caps & maybe even changing to output modern transistors. if its worth doing its worth doing well esp if its going to be an heirloom. afterall parts & components do deterioriate over time but the least i'd is to adjust the Bias & DC offset back to factory spec.
   
  frankly speaking i dont think theres too many of us here thats heard its full potential as how Sansui meant it to be heard. whether its worth all that hassle is totally personal but i can safely say that there's not much sub $1k (&i suspect much much higher) to compete with a 717 at its best. regardless welcome to the select x17 club as its a great amp for sure.

  
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> @WNBC
> Welcome to Sui AU-X17 club lead by scottie!!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 what can i say? Meewoo is man after my own heart! LOL
   


  Quote: 





wualta said:


> You got THAT right. Just saying that a good receiver with properly set up tone stage can really add some grunt to a headphone that never wanted to. If there wasn't a big power supply behind it, though, having all that EQ would be futile.
> 
> WNBC, love that Sansui.


 

 hah! u hav no idea. i took out the K702 from the 'cooker' for a peeaboo session & omg what a difference. a notch +2dB (or 2 depending on the material) of bass boost on the 517 & the 702 sounds alot like the 5LE ortho with similar quickness, upper end sparkle & clarity & more than good bass snap. it does have a slightly larger stage but loses out in stage layering, has messier imaging focus & the bottoms not as extended nor as large. 
   
  otherwise it sounds eerily similar & just as punishing on inferior material. now i know why some ppl love this can.
   

  
  Quote: 





sillysally said:


> Conclusion, speaker Receiver's like my SX650 are designed for speakers, headphones are just a after thought.


 


  to be perfectly honest, i cant say i fully disagree with u on this. we have to remember that 30-40yrs ago, there wasnt much headphones to begin with of which most were 'pro studio' rated at 300-600ohms. so in that context, the HOs of these amps worked just fine esp since they share the inherent goodness of the amp section itself - those were the days of the golden age of receivers so the amp sections were extremely well built.
   
  however they certainly werent designed for the multitude of high efficient lowZ headphones of today. im sure the high-Z high-gain HO of vintage amps may not dance well with these types of cans often leading to less than stellar damping & loading issues.
   
  different times different needs IMO.


----------



## WNBC

Hi Scottie, thanks for the opinion, I'm gonna hold off for a little while before I make the upgrade plunge.  I was able to get this amp for $260 on craigslist, the upgrade service is about $250, not too bad for a solid amp.
   
  It will be a while before I hear it's full potential.  There's got to be about 50 step-wise clicks on the volume pot and I can only get 3 clicks in before I know my fellow apartment complex dwellers are cursing my new "old" amp.  
    
  Quote:


scottiebabie said:


> & for sure he aint too far off. its up to u if wanna go all out & fully refurb the 717, if it we me, i'd wait a bit & do some listening 1st to see if its a keeper -for the next 30 odd yrs- before plunking down the coin. also if i were going to do it, i'd go all the way including upgrading the power caps & maybe even changing to output modern transistors. if its worth doing its worth doing well esp if its going to be an heirloom. afterall parts & components do deterioriate over time but the least i'd is to adjust the Bias & DC offset back to factory spec.
> 
> frankly speaking i dont think theres too many of us here thats heard its full potential as how Sansui meant it to be heard. whether its worth all that hassle is totally personal but i can safely say that there's not much sub $1k (&i suspect much much higher) to compete with a 717 at its best. regardless welcome to the select x17 club as its a great amp for sure.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> the receiver probably distorting cause your using a sound processor(DSP). i can listen to binaural recordings fine on my vintage gear and no need for a sound processor to emulate a binaural recording. if it was recorded as a binaural track then it will come through as a binaural recording. as for headphone out section. i don't see how since these old amps rely on a true ''push-pull'' discrete circuit design not just for speaker use but the headphone out is ran off the same power amp section and tied to the speaker outputs usually accompanied by a resistor for both the left and right channel to ensure the user of not accidently frying their headphones and damaging their hearing. if it was using a op-amp chip then yea it can be considered a ''second thought''
> 
> from what i understand lot of these headphone amps or soundcards with headamps rely on op-amp design with just couple dropping resistors usually,even the expensive ones. not hating on headamps. just saying. maybe that's why as well, lot of these headphone amp designers won't release schematic diagrams of their product i'm guessing.


 

 Well in a way you could be right, but my Realiser A8 is not really a DSP however it does use op-amps for RCA analog outs.. Because of how the A8 works and is powered I use a Supernova 6 TOSlink (1/2M) plugged into a ADG DAC19 DSP1v5 (pcm 1704UK dac's) that has no Op-Amps and a much better power supply. So what is happening is the A8 is getting the analog 7.1/5.1/2.0 signal from my Oppo BD-95 via its 7.1 RCA analog outs using its Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC running to the input of the A8 via blue jean 7.1 rca cables (1M) as a true 7.1/5.1/2.0 signal. Then the A8 does a A/D (pcm 1794 dac) conversion and does its magic, from there it goes to my ADG19 and does the final D/A conversion and sends the audio signal via Eclipse 6 (1/2M) interconnects to my WA5LE.
  So my point is there is next to no distortion coming out of the DAC19, and because the WA5/LE has unlimited bandwidth and the tubes I am using, I would doubt very much that the WA5/LE signal to my HE6's is distorted. So the only distortion is coming from the SX650 speaker receiver as I have out lined in my above post.
   
  Now with other headphones like the K701's the problem is not nearly as noticeable as when using the HE6's.
   
  side note, I have nothing against op-amps if properly deployed. My A8 PRIR's where done at AIX sound studio out in LA with me in attendance, of-course.

 Please understand I am not knocking these vintage receivers they are a great buy and work very well for speakers, and as I have said and Scottie just pointed out for some headphones these receivers are fine.


----------



## scottiebabie

sillysally this Smyth Realiser A8 u're so enamored off sure sounds more than interesting. besides a full stax O2 rig & the now available JH3a, this Realiser thangy is prolly my next most wanted audio toy. if i read it correct, they simulated a loudspeaker experience so real so true its suppose to fool even the most experienced reviewer. wish i have the budget for such a toy.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> sillysally this Smyth Realiser A8 u're so enamored off sure sounds more than interesting. besides a full stax O2 rig & the now available JH3a, this Realiser thangy is prolly my next most wanted audio toy. if i read it correct, they simulated a loudspeaker experience so real so true its suppose to fool even the most experienced reviewer. wish i have the budget for such a toy.


 

 Yes I challenge anybody to fine a bad review on the Realiser, It does do what it says it will do.
  There are a few draw backs however, one is you should have access to a great speaker system/room acoustics so you can make your PRIR's from that system for the best results. Plus the PRIR's can only be used by the person that they are made for to sound really right. After I heard what a very high end system and acoustics sound like and then compared that to my Onkyo 7.1 system and my room acoustics, I nearly tossed out my room (because of its acoustics) and sound system.
  In my case I took a plane from Chicago to LA and back home in about 19 hours. I went to AIX sound studio out in LA, used there main sound room for my three PRIR's.
  AIX's sound engineer set up the 5.1 and then 7.1 reference sound system's and then the Theatrical THX 5.1 sound system, complete with a very large drop down screen where the large L/R front speaker's and center speakers where placed behind the screen, out of the room movie projector, etc. Lorr from Smyth SVS systems was there to setup the Realiser and placement of the mic's in my ears, also to run all of the test tones and make sure my PRIR's came out right. So now I have AIX's sound system and great room acoustics coming from my HE6's in my man cave.
   
  The last draw back is the sub bass, as we know headphones can't duplicate a SW, but the Realiser comes with R/L rca out for a Tactile, that I use to connect my Crownson Shadow Stereo Motion System: A300b Amplifier with a pair of TES100SS. So the end result is it sounds/feels like I am using a pair of  R/L SW's, the only difference to me is I don't get the blast of air coming from a normal SW, but then again AIX's SW is anything but normal its huge.
   
  The Realiser was developed by Steve Smyth PhD, the same guy that developed DTS. At least 50% of the units that are sold are bought by professional sound engineers, sound mixer's, the guys that do the movie and music mastering. You can make however many PRIR's from any room, hall etc as you want, and that is a big plus to the pro's because they can hear how there mastering sounds like in any give place, sound system and acoustics.
   
  I didn't get the STAX system because of the headphone system I have, so I just got the (magic box) so the Realiser cost me a lot less.
   
  Side not, you can use the L/R front speakers from a 5.1 setup by turning off the other speakers except the SW if you want to include the .1 effect.


----------



## moodyrn

It sounds like a great product for people who are wanting their headphones to sound like speakers. It's not something that interest me. I still like for my headphones to sound like headphones. I have three different speaker rigs, so when I want to listen to speakers, I just listen to a pair of those. But this really is the wrong thread for such a discussion.


----------



## RexAeterna

sillysally said:


> Well in a way you could be right, but my Realiser A8 is not really a DSP however it does use op-amps for RCA analog outs.. Because of how the A8 works and is powered I use a Supernova 6 TOSlink (1/2M) plugged into a ADG DAC19 DSP1v5 (pcm 1704UK dac's) that has no Op-Amps and a much better power supply. So what is happening is the A8 is getting the analog 7.1/5.1/2.0 signal from my Oppo BD-95 via its 7.1 RCA analog outs using its Sabre 32 ES9018 DAC running to the input of the A8 via blue jean 7.1 rca cables (1M) as a true 7.1/5.1/2.0 signal. Then the A8 does a A/D (pcm 1794 dac) conversion and does its magic, from there it goes to my ADG19 and does the final D/A conversion and sends the audio signal via Eclipse 6 (1/2M) interconnects to my WA5LE.
> So my point is there is next to no distortion coming out of the DAC19, and because the WA5/LE has unlimited bandwidth and the tubes I am using, I would doubt very much that the WA5/LE signal to my HE6's is distorted. So the only distortion is coming from the SX650 speaker receiver as I have out lined in my above post.
> 
> Now with other headphones like the K701's the problem is not nearly as noticeable as when using the HE6's.
> ...




have you tried running the pioneer straight to the A8 and not through the DAC at all? maybe that can help. or there is a possibility of interference and impedance mismatch on the inputs in the back that can give you nasty distortion. my yamaha r-9 had that issue is when i tried tying in my sansui to the tape-in section of my yamaha it would cause a distortion signal if i did not have both amps turned on. i thought it was my places wiring problems in the house but found out it was a nasty impedance mismatch between the input of the yamaha and the record out of my sansui causing the distortion in my speakers and headphones.

the A8 looks very interesting and would love to try it but it's very expensive just to experience speaker like sound stage with headphones. i know it's probably worth the money for sure but i usually use my headphones for night time listening and i find them very immersive in stereo. i do enjoy binaural recordings cause it can be very stimulating hearing the sound reflect outside your head,especially center image. lot headphones i know always had an issue with center imagery compared to speakers when comparing plain stereo listening.

also i'm not worry about you not liking your pioneer amp as much as you headphone amps. it's cool and doesn't bother me at all and i rarely get offended or even at all. i just was saying these old receivers just use a simple dropping resistor cause the designers know this was the most efficient and best way to power headphones at the time due to lot of inefficient headphones and high impedance of 600-2000ohms. lot of headphones tho back then if it was above 600ohms would always suggest stripping the wires and plugging directly to speaker outputs for proper dosage of high voltages needed cause they always wired the headphones with a 4 conductor balanced cable to the headphone jack just if the user wanted to strip it to be used off the speaker outputs.

next vintage amps if you can find it cheap i suggest going sansui route or even kenwood. for some reason i always liked sansui and kenwood over the more popular pioneer and marantz brands you see all the time.


----------



## RexAeterna

sillysally said:


> Yes I challenge anybody to fine a bad review on the Realiser, It does do what it says it will do.
> There are a few draw backs however, one is you should have access to a great speaker system/room acoustics





yes. that is one of the most underlooked parts for speaker listening i always see all the time especially with people that spend 1000's on their soundsystem and leave what's the most important aspect of listening...the room.

i know you can buy acoustic paneling but you there is other ways if one does research. most common materials is carpet and fiber glass. carpet is perfect for midrange and high frequency absorption while fiber glass depending on the thickness acts like a wonderful bass trapper or low frequency absorber for tightening up the long reflections that beam from the bass drivers or aka woofers.

there is other ways but me personally is using carpet for my floors,walls and ceiling and it makes a big difference where you can even hear the difference in your own voice as soon as you walk in my listening area. even my friends who never really care about their music listening as much as i do and i always thought were tone deaf told me they can tell an immedient difference. i seen people also use the famous egg carton trick and use either shirts or blankets as well. there is tons of ways to correct a room.


anyways besides me rambling i was gonna say i can see how this a8 device works if it gives you a speaker like listening experience from reading about it. even correction with lot of open headphones it can help as well cause sound that reflects/leaks out always reflects/leaks back in without any use of a sound processor and just plain stereo.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> to be perfectly honest, i cant say i fully disagree with u on this. we have to remember that 30-40yrs ago, there wasnt much headphones to begin with of which most were 'pro studio' rated at 300-600ohms. so in that context, the HOs of these amps worked just fine esp since they share the inherent goodness of the amp section itself - those were the days of the golden age of receivers so the amp sections were extremely well built.
> 
> however they certainly werent designed for the multitude of high efficient lowZ headphones of today. im sure the high-Z high-gain HO of vintage amps may not dance well with these types of cans often leading to less than stellar damping & loading issues.
> 
> different times different needs IMO.




Right, well said. I think we all got a little crossed up. I would never advocate running out to buy a high-powered vintage receiver's headphone out with a low impedance, high sensitivity headphone. There are many better stand alone headphone amps for that application. 

OTOH, for the current gen low sensitivity planar headphones, very few of the current headphone amps will work, although there are alternatives coming out, and even relatively inexpensive ones like the Lyr. That said, the SX-1250 I got for the same price as the Lyr, and it does wonders with the LCD-2 and HE-6, as well as being great for speakers. So for SOME folks, that can be a fun alternative.

But I am using the SX-1980 almost exclusively with speakers. When I have the chance, I would rather listen to speakers than headphones, and with my vintage rig in place I now have another venue for speaker listening, hidden off from bothering the family


----------



## Frank I

I have to agree with Rob. i paid a 180.00 for the 80W Pioneer SX980 and out of the headphone jack it drives them as does the 35.00 SX650. But out of the speaker terminals with the HE6 I have yet to hear a better combo in my house. The SACD recordings of classical music are thunderous and transparent with both a wide and deep soundstage. I cant find any amp for what I paid and more to drive these like the SX980 does. So without getting crazy in power and size this was the third from pioneer top when it was made much better than the SX650 and it also gives me a great tuner and I use it occasionally. The LCD2 is much easier to drive but make no mistake the HE6 is a bear.


----------



## ardgedee

Skylab: Have you had the opportunity to compare the Lyr with any of your vintage amps? I assume they won't sound the same, but I'm curious how it compares on qualitative terms.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> there is other ways but me personally is using carpet for my floors,walls and ceiling and it makes a big difference where you can even hear the difference in your own voice as soon as you walk in my listening area.





>


 


  LOL, I bet that has great WAF.  It won't happen in my house.


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately, the demand was so high for the Lyr (including more than just a few people who were buying it solely because it was the hot new amp and tried to use it with totally inappropriate headphones), I was not able to get a review loaner for a very long time, and recently told Schiit I wasnt interested in reviewing it anymore. I will be getting early loaners of the RSA Dark Star and the HifiMan EF6, though, and will be able to compare them with my various receivers driving the JE-6.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> have you tried running the pioneer straight to the A8 and not through the DAC at all? maybe that can help. or there is a possibility of interference and impedance mismatch on the inputs in the back that can give you nasty distortion. my yamaha r-9 had that issue is when i tried tying in my sansui to the tape-in section of my yamaha it would cause a distortion signal if i did not have both amps turned on. i thought it was my places wiring problems in the house but found out it was a nasty impedance mismatch between the input of the yamaha and the record out of my sansui causing the distortion in my speakers and headphones.
> 
> the A8 looks very interesting and would love to try it but it's very expensive just to experience speaker like sound stage with headphones. i know it's probably worth the money for sure but i usually use my headphones for night time listening and i find them very immersive in stereo. i do enjoy binaural recordings cause it can be very stimulating hearing the sound reflect outside your head,especially center image. lot headphones i know always had an issue with center imagery compared to speakers when comparing plain stereo listening.
> 
> ...


 

 First let me say this is a good thread with very nice folks using it.
   
  Anyway the distortion is not in the SQ its in the projection/illusion of a sound-stage, mainly in the voices (mids). The biggest reason why I use the extra DAC19 is because it out puts 2.5 volts using no op-amp, as where the A8 and its op-amp outputs 1.8 volts for the RCA outs. Because my WA5LE is a tube amp with very powerful series of four transformers, this helps the WA5LE volume level without distorting the SQ.
   
  Yes I have just used my BD-95 and sent the audio via interconnects to my SX-650, and yes the the distortion is gone but that is only because the A8 is not being used.and therefor there is no Binaural type of signal.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I just picked up a Marantz 2215B Receiver at a yard sale for $5.  Does this count as a Vintage Receiver?   It works, Don't know what I'm going to do with it.  It looked cool so I bought it.  The owner said he was going to throw it away but decided to toss it in at the garage sale.  Below is a photo of the Receiver  I found on the net.  Mine has the silver Front.  I'm tempted to plug my LCD's into it....


----------



## RexAeterna

scompton said:


> LOL, I bet that has great WAF.  It won't happen in my house.




through this whole time i wonder what that meant so i decided to wiki it and lol. naw man i'm cool. i'm still single so i can basically do what i want with my listening area around my place. too busy with other things as well to be settling down.


----------



## RexAeterna

sillysally said:


> First let me say this is a good thread with very nice folks using it.
> 
> Anyway the distortion is not in the SQ its in the projection/illusion of a sound-stage, mainly in the voices (mids). The biggest reason why I use the extra DAC19 is because it out puts 2.5 volts using no op-amp, as where the A8 and its op-amp outputs 1.8 volts for the RCA outs. Because my WA5LE is a tube amp with very powerful series of four transformers, this helps the WA5LE volume level without distorting the SQ.
> 
> Yes I have just used my BD-95 and sent the audio via interconnects to my SX-650, and yes the the distortion is gone but that is only because the A8 is not being used.and therefor there is no Binaural type of signal.




that sucks. maybe you might have better luck with another vintage amp next time around if you buy another one. sasnui au-717 is calling your name. you know you want one.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I just picked up a Marantz 2215B Receiver at a yard sale for $5.  Does this count as a Vintage Receiver?


 


  Definitely vintage receiver. it was built from 1973 to unknow. And Marantz 22xx line was considered as best vintage SS Marantz receivers.


----------



## Frank I

I sold my HE6 today and now I am selling two receivers. I think my SX980 and G4500 are both sold at least by the email i got from a collector. I decided to keep just my tube amps and one receiver for my D7000 so the S650 was the choice because its better than the Sansui G4500 and the SX980 is too powerful for my speakers which are single drivers and I need to use them like now while my decware are back at decware for service, While I loved the HE6 with the SX980 I decided I like Tube amps better so it was a hard decision but I made it anyway


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> Definitely vintage receiver. it was built from 1973 to unknow. And Marantz 22xx line was considered as best vintage SS Marantz receivers.




Indeed! It's pretty low power, but still nice, and FIVE BUCKS? I never score anything like that for five bucks. That's awesome. Try it with some of your headphones and let us know what you think!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed! It's pretty low power, but still nice, and FIVE BUCKS? I never score anything like that for five bucks. That's awesome. Try it with some of your headphones and let us know what you think!


 

 The guy told me it was out the whole day in the yard sale and nobody wanted it.  So I offered him five bucks.   After I clean it up I'll try the LCD's, that's all I own but I can borrow my daughters Grado 80's, Audio Technica ATH AD 700's, Audio Technica ES7's.   I wonder what small speakers I can pick up to go with this?


----------



## mhamel

*sigh*  Head-Fi's wallet-eating power strikes again.
   
  I've just jumped into the vintage ring an an option to power my LCD-2s after reading through this thread.   It was probably a bit too expensive for what it is, but I ordered a Pioneer SA-9100 today. Completely serviced/tested and came with a 6 month warranty.  It is supposed to ship tomorrow, so I should have it Friday.    
   
       -Mike


----------



## Skylab

warriorant said:


> The guy told me it was out the whole day in the yard sale and nobody wanted it.  So I offered him five bucks.   After I clean it up I'll try the LCD's, that's all I own but I can borrow my daughters Grado 80's, Audio Technica ATH AD 700's, Audio Technica ES7's.   I wonder what small speakers I can pick up to go with this?


The 2215b is 15 wpc into 8 ohms. For headphones it's hard to say what you would get, but might as well try it with the LCD-2 and see what you think. If you want o use it with speakers you need to get some pretty efficient ones, but that still could be nice,


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The guy told me it was out the whole day in the yard sale and nobody wanted it.  So I offered him five bucks.   After I clean it up I'll try the LCD's, that's all I own but I can borrow my daughters Grado 80's, Audio Technica ATH AD 700's, Audio Technica ES7's.   I wonder what small speakers I can pick up to go with this?


 
   
  not sure about all the rest but me thinks the LCD2 will do mitey fine with the 2215. color me ....well colored but me also thinks u'd be surprised at how loud 15wpc can be. with the right speakers, neighbors mite even pay unexpected 'visits'. good score btw!
  
   


  Quote: 





mhamel said:


> *sigh*  Head-Fi's wallet-eating power strikes again.
> 
> I've just jumped into the vintage ring an an option to power my LCD-2s after reading through this thread.   It was probably a bit too expensive for what it is, but I ordered a Pioneer SA-9100 today. Completely serviced/tested and came with a 6 month warranty.  It is supposed to ship tomorrow, so I should have it Friday.
> 
> -Mike


 

 i think u'd be seriously stok'd with what the SA9100 brings to the table. if its anything like my SA7500 -its prolly better- then the lively airy nature of the pioneer should meld more than fine with the LCD2. congrats & good for u!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


warriorant said:


> The guy told me it was out the whole day in the yard sale and nobody wanted it.  So I offered him five bucks.   After I clean it up I'll try the LCD's, that's all I own but I can borrow my daughters Grado 80's, Audio Technica ATH AD 700's, Audio Technica ES7's.   I wonder what small speakers I can pick up to go with this?


 

 That's a great find! Congrats!
   
  As for speakers, depends on where you'll use them.
   
  If you don't have a good stereo at your desk, now's the time to consider one.
   
  Small bookshelf speakers make for great computer speakers. Since they're nearfield (meaning less than 1 meter from the listener's head), the usual norms of efficiency don't apply; you can get considerably more perceived volume out of the power put in, and the bass is much more powerful and extends deeper since there's not as much space for the energy to dissipate before reaching your ears. And unless you still use a CRT or bare hard drives on your desktop, you don't have to worry about shielding.
   
  My PS-6a speakers, not generally considered efficient, could be played louder than I could stand 'em out of a little T-amp without ever getting squelchy or farty. The HK670 driving 'em right now has ridiculous power to spare... its power transformer alone is bigger than the whole T-amp is...
   
  What you do have to worry about is that you're sufficiently close to the speakers now that you can affect the balance depending on the relative position of your head to the tweeter or woofer (unless you have something like a nice pair of Tannoy concentric speakers, in which case, nevermind)
   
  Or, of course, you could get some ultra-high-efficiency Klipschorns...


----------



## mhamel

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i think u'd be seriously stok'd with what the SA9100 brings to the table. if its anything like my SA7500 -its prolly better- then the lively airy nature of the pioneer should meld more than fine with the LCD2. congrats & good for u!


 

 I'd been looking at Marantz, Pioneer and Luxman receivers, but everything I was finding in a decent price range needed work, which I really don't have time to do right now, and everything that's had the work done was more than I wanted to spend on this,  I'd seen the SA-9100 along the way, but was looking for something more in the late 70s (I absolutely love the look of gear in that time frame), but when I came across this one and dug into it a bit deeper, I just couldn't pass up, especially given the work has been done.  Not to mention, a 6 month warranty on 38 year old gear isn't too bad, either.   Quality-wise, it seems top-notch, and pretty much everything I've read about it has been positive.
   
  It also looks like it has a very nice phono stage, and while it's been a long time since I've played around with vinyl, it's a nice option to have for future wallet-eating fun.  Heh
   
       -Mike


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> I'd been looking at Marantz, Pioneer and Luxman receivers, but everything I was finding in a decent price range needed work, which I really don't have time to do right now, and everything that's had the work done was more than I wanted to spend on this,  I'd seen the SA-9100 along the way, but was looking for something more in the late 70s (I absolutely love the look of gear in that time frame), but when I came across this one and dug into it a bit deeper, I just couldn't pass up, especially given the work has been done.  Not to mention, a 6 month warranty on 38 year old gear isn't too bad, either.   Quality-wise, it seems top-notch, and pretty much everything I've read about it has been positive.
> 
> It also looks like it has a very nice phono stage, and while it's been a long time since I've played around with vinyl, it's a nice option to have for future wallet-eating fun.  Heh
> 
> -Mike


 

 Mike i think u already know it but incase u dont, let me say that u picked the cream of the crop in your 1st vintage foray. the SA-9100 is acknowledged to be amongst the better (if not with the best) integrated amps Pioneer ever made. its been the fav of many a Pioneer fan. its my opinion that each amp series has its own sound characterics & to my ears, the vintage pioneers SA series suit darker/warmer headphones (or speakers for that matter).
   
  so me thinks Mikeys gonna have a gay ol time playin with his pioneer & orthos


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I sold my HE6 today and now I am selling two receivers. I think my SX980 and G4500 are both sold at least by the email i got from a collector. I decided to keep just my tube amps and one receiver for my D7000 so the S650 was the choice because its better than the Sansui G4500 and the SX980 is too powerful for my speakers which are single drivers and I need to use them like now while my decware are back at decware for service, While I loved the HE6 with the SX980 I decided I like Tube amps better so it was a hard decision but I made it anyway


 

 Sorry to read this, the HE6's are really something special if (big if) properly feed and amp. It was Ed Wood that turned me on to the HE6 last June when he was beta resting the HE6's. Ed also has the Realiser A8 loves it and the HE6's paired with it.
  My point here is that I am starting to think the HE6's can really shine when feed a Binaural type of signal.
  And as I have said I really am not sold on the idea of running the HE6's off a fairly high powered amp from the speaker taps. It will be interesting to read how the new HE6 amp from Fang drives the HE6's, and as far as the new RSA Black Bart amp (or whatever) with its totted and imo unnecessary high wattage is just hype.


----------



## Dubwicht

Interesting thread. I have a wack of vintage receivers including Scott, Pioneer, Realistic, Marantz, Sony, Yamaha, B&O and others. Cheers, Doug


----------



## shipsupt

Giving the Pioneer SX-650 some time with the HE-5LE's tonight... Loving this old thing.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *WarriorAnt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I wonder what small speakers I can pick up to go with this?


 
   
  I'll assume we're talking nearfield listening, as RGD described above. New, it's hard to beat the cheap little Sony 2-ways (SS-B1000 or one of the several identical-looking predecessor models)-- you can often get 'em refurbed for $40/pr, shipped. If you want tiny and you don't mind DIY, mod a pair of Realistic Minimus-7s. There are, as you can imagine, lots and lots of possibilities. 15 watts a side is plenty to have fun with, with speakers *or* headphones. Now, if your head tends to drift off-axis into the lobes and notches of a typical 2-way's crossover region, and you really feel the need to go cheap 'n' coaxial (tweeter in the middle of the woofer), there's always the Insignia NS-B2111.


----------



## Hero Kid

I was pretty happy when I scored a Luxman L-5 integrated amplifier which was released in 1976 (which I understand was a good era for audio gear) off eBay. It's served me well over the past few yeas driving my old LEAK speakers as well as acting as a phono stage for my vinyl rig. I've since bought a standalone phono stage which removed my dependency on the amp as a one stop show pony in my (poor) Uni student home. The problem is I'm worried about how it will perform (and by extension sound) driving my incoming LCD-2s and I have begun to question it's existence.
   
  I know it is too much to ask how this specific amp works with "high-end" orthodynamics (namely the LCD-2) but what I was hoping for were some general comments on how amps from that era behave driving headphones, typical sound characteristics of Luxman amps, anything to give me half an idea of how things might work/sound with my LCD-2s. The alternative amp that comes to mind is a Schiit Lyr but if I can avoid having to buy one, I will.
   
  Here is a website with some info on the amp: http://audio-database.com/LUXMANALPINE-LUXMAN/amp/l-5-e.html. It was supposed to retail for ~$600 upon release, making it one of the mid-fi integrated amplifiers on the Luxman catalog of the time.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> I know it is too much to ask how this specific amp works with "high-end" orthodynamics (namely the LCD-2) but what I was hoping for were some general comments on how amps from that era behave driving headphones, typical sound characteristics of Luxman amps, anything to give me half an idea of how things might work/sound with my LCD-2s. The alternative amp that comes to mind is a Schiit Lyr but if I can avoid having to buy one, I will.
> 
> Here is a website with some info on the amp: http://audio-database.com/LUXMANALPINE-LUXMAN/amp/l-5-e.html. It was supposed to retail for ~$600 upon release, making it one of the mid-fi integrated amplifiers on the Luxman catalog of the time.


 


  Old receivers with HP outs that are just resistors hanging off the speaker taps do fine with orthos because they don't mind the extra output impedance like most dynamics do.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> I was pretty happy when I scored a Luxman L-5 integrated amplifier which was released in 1976 (which I understand was a good era for audio gear) off eBay. It's served me well over the past few yeas driving my old LEAK speakers as well as acting as a phono stage for my vinyl rig. I've since bought a standalone phono stage which removed my dependency on the amp as a one stop show pony in my (poor) Uni student home. The problem is I'm worried about how it will perform (and by extension sound) driving my incoming LCD-2s and I have begun to question it's existence.
> 
> I know it is too much to ask how this specific amp works with "high-end" orthodynamics (namely the LCD-2) but what I was hoping for were some general comments on how amps from that era behave driving headphones, typical sound characteristics of Luxman amps, anything to give me half an idea of how things might work/sound with my LCD-2s. The alternative amp that comes to mind is a Schiit Lyr but if I can avoid having to buy one, I will.
> 
> Here is a website with some info on the amp: http://audio-database.com/LUXMANALPINE-LUXMAN/amp/l-5-e.html. It was supposed to retail for ~$600 upon release, making it one of the mid-fi integrated amplifiers on the Luxman catalog of the time.


 

 as far as i know, Luxman made some fine midend amps which is reflected in how well u like your L-5 with the Leaks. personally i wouldnt mind getting my hands on one of their hybrid amps -something the the LV105 will do me fine- to play with.
   
  as to how well your L-5 will do with the LCD2, only you can be the final arbitor of that combo. however theres no logical reason for this combo to not work well as most all of the LCD2+vintage amps combos in this thread atleast have been more than favorable. IIRC skylab ordered a 2nd LCD2 to go with his big pioneer sx1250 office rig so take that for what its worth,.


----------



## WarriorAnt

when I get some free time I'm going to open up the 2215B, clean it up, set it up and then revisit this thread for speaker recommendations from you guys.   
   
   
  Last night I had a dream I went to another yard sale and found a Leben  CS300XS for $20...


----------



## mralexosborn

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> when I get some free time I'm going to open up the 2215B, clean it up, set it up and then revisit this thread for speaker recommendations from you guys.
> 
> 
> Last night I had a *wet* dream I went to another yard sale and found a Leben  CS300XS for $20...


 

 Edited. XD


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> when I get some free time I'm going to open up the 2215B, clean it up, set it up and then revisit this thread for speaker recommendations from you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mikha

Hello! Looking for an amp for my Hifiman HE-4 and my speakers and I'm really interested in vintage amps/recievers. I suppose to use line out with HE-4. Is there something really good for about 700$?
   
  Maybe Pioneer 980 or Tandberg 2075 or something better?


----------



## Skylab

Heck for $700 you can get something REALLY good! You can get a Pioneer SX-1250 for that, as you should a fully serviced Sansui 9090, or many of the Marantz 22xx receivers. Or you could get one of the nice Sansui integrated Scottie likes. $700 is damned near a fortune in vintage amp land!

I can only comment on what I have heard, but the SX-1250 is a beast, and sounds great with the HE-6.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mikha said:


> Hello! Looking for an amp for my Hifiman HE-4 and my speakers and I'm really interested in vintage amps/recievers. I suppose to use line out with HE-4. Is there something really good for about 700$?
> 
> Maybe Pioneer 980 or Tandberg 2075 or something better?


 

 The sX 980 I sold for 180.00 what i paid for it and they go around 250-300 on ebay. Look locally though and listen to it first if you can find one.


----------



## ardgedee

Realistic APM-200 meter box arrived! It's a beaut!
   
  Plugged in and listening to my desktop system (the mighty Harmon/Kardon 60 wpc, Design Acoustics PS-6a speakers).
   
  Test material: Aretha Franklin's inarguably classic album _Aretha Now_.
   
  Um.
   
  At my usual speakers-listening level, I can barely get those needles to _move_. I mean, seriously, a little sleepy eyelid-fluttering action at best.
   
  They'll actually start wiggling noticeably, the 0.05 watt peak light flashing on the occasional snare hit or chorus shout, if I push the volume up towards uncomfortable SPLs. Although if you're gonna go deaf, her version of "Night Time is the Right Time" is a great way to go out. It's for science, right?
   
  Still and all, for speakers rated at 88 dB/watt/meter, they are delivering more than advertised for my purposes. Granted, we're not in an anechoic chamber: There's a nice big wall a few inches behind them, too. But the main lesson to take from this is: What qualifies as 'inefficient' on paper can sometimes take a flying leap in practice.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> .... $700 is damned near a fortune in vintage amp land!
> 
> I can only comment on what I have heard, but the SX-1250 is a beast, and sounds great with the HE-6.


 

 LMAO! i cant help but LOLs when skylab thinks $700 is a lot money in with any gear when im sure he has spent more on a set of matching tubes!!! seriously though for sure $700 will buy u a number of options. one definitely cant go wrong with a SX1250 as its a beast in more than just size & power - its a top contender for best vintage receiver fo sho!
   
  my fav Sansuis will not be an improvement but a lateral upgrade of a different flavor. it really boils down to which headphone u wanna use & what your personal preferences are. IMO there's no wrong in either a Pioneer SX1250 or Sansui AU717. heck if u shop wisely, theres a distinct possibility one can score a SX1010 AND a Sansui AU517 on your budget!
   
  get eeeeet!

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Realistic APM-200 meter box arrived! It's a beaut!
> 
> Plugged in and listening to my desktop system (the mighty Harmon/Kardon 60 wpc, Design Acoustics PS-6a speakers).
> 
> ...


 

 enuff of the blabberin already! show us some pics of the lightshow bro. LOL


----------



## blur510

can someone identify this sansui? I'm trying to get a good receiver on craigslist and this was listed but I don't know what model it is, and if it is any good.. thanks


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> can someone identify this sansui? I'm trying to get a good receiver on craigslist and this was listed but I don't know what model it is, and if it is any good.. thanks


 


  cant tell for sure but it looks like a late 60s Sansui 350 receiver or a close variant. here's a pic of my 'Sui 350 at 22wpc. its a sweet little mid-centric receiver that was voiced to be as tubey as the SS of its day can be.


----------



## blur510

thanks.. will it be a good amp to power let's say an HE5-LE? or an HE-500/HE-6?


----------



## scottiebabie

well the 'Sui 350 certainly has enuff juice to power any of the hifiman orthos esp out of its speaker taps. my 5LE > Sansui AU-517 is better but thats to my ears. u mite hear different so best would be to take the headphone of choice with u to test on the receiver.
   
  regardless one can always resell if it turns out not be the cookie of choice. for what its worth, it took me over a dozen attempts to find the best combo for the 5LE & but even then, its the best of what i've heard. theres tons of different make & models so 'the truth is out there' still.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> well the 'Sui 350 certainly has enuff juice to power any of the hifiman orthos esp out of its speaker taps. my 5LE > Sansui AU-517 is better but thats to my ears. u mite hear different so best would be to take the headphone of choice with u to test on the receiver.
> 
> regardless one can always resell if it turns out not be the cookie of choice. for what its worth, it took me over a dozen attempts to find the best combo for the 5LE & but even then, its the best of what i've heard. theres tons of different make & models so 'the truth is out there' still.


 


  That is the great thing about buying these vintage amplifiers.  If you know what to look for in pricing, you can always resell without losing value.  To truly understand the best possible match, you yourself will have to go through several different amplifiers/receivers to get the sound you want.  My HF-2 Vixens are the most pickiest headphones ever, despite being only 32 ohms, I finally found the best possible match, the Sansui AU-5500 and most likely anything in this particular series of Sansui, sadly I had to sell it to fund repair money.  I got a HA-1100 sitting, and I have a soft spot for Hitachi gear.  Though, I do regret not using the Vixen with the Pioneer SX-3700, the Sansui and Pioneer sound very similar.


----------



## Skylab

@ ardgedee - my SX-1980 has built in power meters. With the B&W N805's, I can hit at most about 10W on peaks. And that is very rare, when things are really cooking in the bass. Most of the time it registers at about .01W or so. So your experience sounds about right.

But I am with Scottie - let's see pics!!!


----------



## Skylab

So I installed that Marantz Quad Adaptor in my vintage rig - man I tell you, i could just sit and stare at this rig for hours


----------



## moodyrn

I could sit and stare at that even with no music playing. It would make sense to me to separate my vintage rig so that I would have one centered around my fisher and one centered around my pioneer, but I just love having them both on the same rack even though I can only listen to one at a time.


----------



## moodyrn

I've found a great deal locally(well an hour away) for 25.00. There's only one side playing, but from the way the seller describe the sound coming in and out of the one channel if he turn a couple of knobs, sounds like it could just use a good dose of deoxit. But even if I have to send it in for repairs, what the guy is selling would be more than worth it. I suppose to go pick it up tomorrow. If is happens to be as simple as a good cleaning, this would definitely be the deal of the century. I'm going to wait until tomorrow to reveal what it is, but I'm very excited. I probably could sell this thing broken for around 150.00 to 200.00.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds cool! On what piece?


----------



## WarriorAnt

I can't look away.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sounds cool! On what piece?


 


  Well I'll go ahead and say it's a kenwood kr-9600. I think my sx1010 just might  be on the chopping block. No way I can keep two receivers that are so massive. So even if I do have to spend a couple of hundred on repairs, I think it would still be worth it. I hope it's only something minor that I can fix myself.


----------



## Skylab

Of you can get that Kenwood to work well, that would be the score of the CENTURY!

And thanks to you and WarriorAnt for the kind words


----------



## BmWr75

I've read on AK from a reliable source (EchoWars) that the transistors in the 9600 are unobtanium.  So, be sure both channels are playing at least intermittently...as in a dirty pot that needs Deoxit.
   
  I bought a KR-9050 recently in excellent condition (except a missing toggle switch cover, but think I found a suitable replacement on eBay).  The 9050 uses a different transistor that can still be bought today.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I had a great Kenwood receiver around 1972 it had a wired remote but I cannot remember the model number. Used it with a pair of Advents.  I have the Vintage bug now.  Stopped off at local Goodwills real quick and a few more yard sales.


----------



## WNBC

Somedays like today I wished I had gone into electronics rather than biology so I could understand how to repair and maintain these fine instruments.  Very cool set-up, must be a blast to hear as well.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So I installed that Marantz Quad Adaptor in my vintage rig - man I tell you, i could just sit and stare at this rig for hours


----------



## scottiebabie

yup output transistors on the kennie kr9600 is def extinct & similar stories for the sx1280/1980 (&some yamis too for that matter). but hell for $20 its worth it for the casing, knobs, tranny & woteva else. u always use it as a parts unit for a future kr9600 buy. good score moodryn!
   
  nice lightshow skylab - its da bomb mang
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. btw how the marantz quad sound in stereo?


----------



## mhamel

Nice!!
   
  Now, you just need one of these:  http://www.classicaudio.com/value/pio/SD1100.html    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> So I installed that Marantz Quad Adaptor in my vintage rig - man I tell you, i could just sit and stare at this rig for hours


----------



## Skylab

@ WNBC - Thanks 

@ Scottie - I need to find some speakers to use in the back. I thought I scored a nice pair of Advents tonight at Goodwill, which would have been my first Goodwill score ever, but one of the woofers was blown :mad:

@ Mhamel - OMG...must...have...one...


----------



## mhamel

Rob,
   
  I thought the same thing when I saw it... I guess they tend to go for around $1500-$1600.   There are also a couple of Technics models,  http://audioklassiks.de/wordpress/?p=86 - SAE also made a tuner with a scope, and it looks like a nice nixie tube display.  http://audioklassiks.de/wordpress/?p=1252
   
       -Mike


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> @ WNBC - Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was in Goodwill today looking around.  How often do you score at Goodwill?


----------



## Skylab

Have read over on AudioKarma about some AMAZING audio scores...but I personally have never, ever had one. Never scored audio from garage sales, either, although I don't make a very serios effort at either Goodwill or garage sale hunting, so that may be why...


----------



## ardgedee

By popular request, with lights on and lights off.

   

   
  In order to get the gratuitous 0.05 watt light to glow, I had to set the meter to assume 4 watt speakers, set the headphones down, and crank some bass-heavy hip-hop.
   
  The HE-6 sounds impressively clear from a couple feet away.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Have read over on AudioKarma about some AMAZING audio scores...but I personally have never, ever had one. Never scored audio from garage sales, either, although I don't make a very serious effort at either Goodwill or garage sale hunting, so that may be why...


 

 My $5 Marantz 2215B yard sale was the only audio score I've ever seen.  However I did retrieve a working Nagra from a dumpster back in 2001 when a family was cleaning out the home of a dead relative. They just tossed the the thing away with the rest of his stuff into a dumpster.  There were 2 tiny, very tiny tube mono blocks in that score also.  I don't remember their names.  I gave all 3 to a video producer friend of mine at the time who was helping me work on my house.  Apparently the dead relative was an old time field audio eng.
   
  I just finished cleaning the 2215B.  The radio dial front panel has a beautiful glow to it.  I have no idea how I'm going to use the thing.  I was going to hook it up to one of my TV setups and run a pair of headphones out of it to watch TV with but the beautiful lighted front panel is just too bright!   I'm going to hook it up  to my DAC-2 right now and give the headphone out a quick listen.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> So I installed that Marantz Quad Adaptor in my vintage rig - man I tell you, i could just sit and stare at this rig for hours


 


  It looks great and probably sounds as good


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> @ WNBC - Thanks
> 
> @ Scottie - I need to find some speakers to use in the back. I thought I scored a nice pair of Advents tonight at Goodwill, which would have been my first Goodwill score ever, but one of the woofers was blown :mad:
> 
> @ Mhamel - OMG...must...have...one...




did you see if the voice coils were burnt? if not you can actually rewire the ends to the terminals but can be a pain and need to be very patient cause the ends of the voice coil is as thin as a strand of hair. i repaired the silk dome tweeter of my technics sb-t200 floor towers like this once and worked wonderfully afterwards but thinking of buying some infinity Emit planer tweeters i found locally for 40 bucks in perfect condition and infinity dome midranges and crossovers all from a famous infinity RS6 speakers. thinking of building my own cabniets simular to the infinity rs6 for these drivers or see how the planer tweeters sound in my technics cabs. i also found same guy selling crossovers and drivers of the well known technics sb-7000A. might buy those as well if i can't find a pair of good condition technics sb-7000A's locally for reasonable price.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> My $5 Marantz 2215B yard sale was the only audio score I've ever seen.  However I did retrieve a working Nagra from a dumpster back in 2001 when a family was cleaning out the home of a dead relative. They just tossed the the thing away with the rest of his stuff into a dumpster.  There were 2 tiny, very tiny tube mono blocks in that score also.  I don't remember their names.  I gave all 3 to a video producer friend of mine at the time who was helping me work on my house.  Apparently the dead relative was an old time field audio eng.
> 
> I just finished cleaning the 2215B.  The radio dial front panel has a beautiful glow to it.  I have no idea how I'm going to use the thing.  I was going to hook it up to one of my TV setups and run a pair of headphones out of it to watch TV with but the beautiful lighted front panel is just too bright!   I'm going to hook it up  to my DAC-2 right now and give the headphone out a quick listen.




sucks to hear that. maybe you should kept the tubes atleast. i never once saw anything my grandfather left behind. he use to build tube and transistor radios,amps and even speakers. also would always wrap his own voice coils and build everything from scratch. only thing i have still of his is his old realistic tape deck he bought while working there as a tech in radioshack and his work table he used that was hand built in the phillipines when he was stationed there in the military on clark air base. everything else just disappeared. don't know what happened to his stuff after he passed.


----------



## ardgedee

The Scott tube integrated (still out for service) I got for... well, very little. The seller reduced the price three times while I looked, because she really wanted to be rid of it. Well... okay!
   
  In general, most people will get a few Good Finds eventually. But how much time are you willing to volunteer to the effort? If you're not inclined to get a pleasure out of the thrill of the hunt, scrounging yard sales grubbing through Salvation Army stores, then winning a sleeper on Ebay or buying something off a technician who specializes in refurbing old equipment is still good enough for bragging rights. After all, how many people really know about this old kit and know what to do with it?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> sucks to hear that. maybe you should kept the tubes atleast. i never once saw anything my grandfather left behind. he use to build tube and transistor radios,amps and even speakers. also would always wrap his own voice coils and build everything from scratch. only thing i have still of his is his old realistic tape deck he bought while working there as a tech in radioshack and his work table he used that was hand built in the phillipines when he was stationed there in the military on clark air base. everything else just disappeared. don't know what happened to his stuff after he passed.


 

 Sound like this old dude. He was very old when he passed on. There was even more stuff in the dumpster but it got smashed up as they tossed this dudes life away without thinking or caring.  I wanted to keep those tiny tube amps but my friend was drooling over them and he didn't have any kind of system at all and I had this expensive Krell setup I used to torture him with.  So I gave him the tiny tubes amp and the vintage nagra. 

 I'm listening now to the Marantz 2215B with my daughters Audio Technica AD 700's and her Grado 80i's and WOW!  This thing is amazing! Smooth, effortless and liquid like a vintage tube setup.  Not harsh at all or electronic sounding. I don't sense any congestion or glare. Seems to have enough power to do what it was designed to do within its limits.  Even the loudness button is well behaved.  How is this possible?   It is not muddy like I thought it would be. There is plenty of detail. I keep thinking smooth. It is satisfying in a way I didn't imagine.  It is not high end but it is musical.  Smooth and musical.  I better not tell my wife how nice this $5 find actually sounds.  It is not satisfying like a high end piece of gear but it is quite enjoyable. I don't mind spending time with it. Right now I'm listening to Freddie Hubbard's Red Clay alternate version live and it is moving along with all that live energy.  
   
  Listening to Bjorks Oceania is very dimensional and detailed.  Antony & The Johnsons "Epilepsy is Dancing" track is rendered with all its subtle double vocal detail.   My 16 year old daughter grabbed the cans and proclaimed the sound to be "Amazing" "Really Nice" "no way your'e selling this".  I think she's going to take it from me when I'm not looking.
   
  The unit is just very well balanced. Good detail, Natural. Pleasant.  On  Kistehén Tánczenekar's track Virágok a Réten (Romano Drom Remix) ,Putumayo Presents Gypsy Groove the opening steel string guitar and surface of the bongo is clearly depicted and in a nice space.  His voice comes across very natural, the children's choir at the end is wonderful.
On the track "Everything" by Jehro, Putumayo Presents: A New Groove, her voice is clearly defined and the deep bass line stays clean and does not cloud the melody and stays distinct.
   
  I've learned a humbling lesson from a piece of gear made from 1973-1977.


----------



## mralexosborn

A guy is selling his JBL L80t's for $250 on Craigslist. Is it worth it?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> A guy is selling his JBL L80t's for $250 on Craigslist. Is it worth it?


 


  Pricing seems to be fair.


----------



## blur510

question for the experts, how much should I expect to pay for a good working pioneer sx-1250? thanks


----------



## mralexosborn

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Pricing seems to be fair.


 
  Would this be a good first floorstander? Also can my 2220B power it sufficiently?


----------



## augustwest

I'm a Marantz guy myself but have always liked SAE gear too. Check out this SAE collectors collection. I've never seen anything quite like it.
   
  < http://www.jims-sae-site.com/ >
   
  - augustwest


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





augustwest said:


> I'm a Marantz guy myself but have always liked SAE gear too. Check out this SAE collectors collection. I've never seen anything quite like it.
> 
> < http://www.jims-sae-site.com/ >
> 
> - augustwest


 

 Nice!  I feel a new obsession coming on.


----------



## WarriorAnt

3 hours later and I can't stop listening to the 2215B.


----------



## moodyrn

I'm sure your wallet hopes this doesn't peak your interest into upgrading to even higher end vintage gear.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> Sound like this old dude. He was very old when he passed on. There was even more stuff in the dumpster but it got smashed up as they tossed this dudes life away without thinking or caring.  I wanted to keep those tiny tube amps but my friend was drooling over them and he didn't have any kind of system at all and I had this expensive Krell setup I used to torture him with.  So I gave him the tiny tubes amp and the vintage nagra.
> 
> I'm listening now to the Marantz 2215B with my daughters Audio Technica AD 700's and her Grado 80i's and WOW!  This thing is amazing! Smooth, effortless and liquid like a vintage tube setup.  Not harsh at all or electronic sounding. I don't sense any congestion or glare. Seems to have enough power to do what it was designed to do within its limits.  Even the loudness button is well behaved.  How is this possible?   It is not muddy like I thought it would be. There is plenty of detail. I keep thinking smooth. It is satisfying in a way I didn't imagine.  It is not high end but it is musical.  Smooth and musical.  I better not tell my wife how nice this $5 find actually sounds.  It is not satisfying like a high end piece of gear but it is quite enjoyable. I don't mind spending time with it. Right now I'm listening to Freddie Hubbard's Red Clay alternate version live and it is moving along with all that live energy.
> 
> ...




good you gave your friend some good stuff to experience. all extra gear i have i give to my friend cause i alway got tired of him using computer speakers and earbuds. i always find use of all my gear. no sitting around not being used.

i really like bjork especially for soundstage testing on speakers cause her stuff i love hearing some of the instruments pass behind my head especially songs like ''All is full of love'' track. i also enjoy it on my akg's. her recordings always sound like i'm listening to a binaural recording on my headphones.


----------



## dBel84

I know it is not zen to post ebay links but this is one of those beastly masterpieces which may fade into the ether - I don't own one but have heard one driving electrostatics before and it is a classic mosfet powerhouse..dB
   
  ( ps - power amp only so needs a preamp or some sort of controller)


----------



## publicholiday

have anyone experienced Luxman L81 and Kenwood KA-405 before?


----------



## Skylab

blur510 said:


> question for the experts, how much should I expect to pay for a good working pioneer sx-1250? thanks


in nice condition, working, and clean, about $500 or so. One already overhauled or in heirloom condition might be more like $750 at the highest. 


warriorant said:


> Nice!  I feel a new obsession coming on.




Ha! Loved reading your comments on the Marantz. I agree that the Marantz receivers are ultra-smooth. I love my 2275 - it is in my office, and drives the HE-6 very well - I use it every day.

And yeah...the vintage bug sure bit me, so watch your wallet!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


dbel84 said:


> I know it is not zen to post ebay links but this is one of those beastly masterpieces which may fade into the ether - I don't own one but have heard one driving electrostatics before and it is a classic mosfet powerhouse..dB
> 
> ( ps - power amp only so needs a preamp or some sort of controller)


 

 The seller also has the matching integrated preamp/tuner. The amp has two speaker outputs, but the speaker switch is on the back of the case under a heatsink, while the preamp has a single output line. I'm sure this made sense to somebody at the time.
   
  As for the various people asking about prices and recommendations... There are an awful lot of good vintage receivers out there, far more than a bunch of head-fiers can keep up with. Certain specific models have been discussed in detail here, and searching through the thread will get you some valuable information about those.
   
  I've hassled a knowledgeable member to annoyance about this (and I feel bad about it now; I owe you beers, man), and this is the zen that I have learned from it: If the price is cheap enough to be a safe gamble, go for it and contribute your knowledge to the collective pool.
   
  I have a receiver nobody else here has, and it sounds awesome (*edit:* And I'm glad to share my impressions to the thread). But before buying, I spent a long while watching auctions open and close, researching anything that looked interesting. Since other audio sites have larger memberships with greater experience using vintage gear, Google is your friend: The brand and model number alone can usually get you to first-hand opinions quickly across a variety of boards, and as a bonus you may see comments from people who've also had to service them professionally (a great way to know the unit you're considering doesn't have some obsolete unit that wears out with use).


----------



## Skylab

Good advices, ardgedee. Oh and love your RS Meter Box, man


----------



## ardgedee

Incidentally, there's been a parade of interesting vintage receivers and integrateds marching through Ebay recently, going for cheap -- by comparison to the brands frequently discussed here -- because they're not one of the brands frequently discussed here. If you dare to take one for the team, do some homework and you are as likely as not to discover something that becomes yet another cult item, like the SX-1250 or AU-717.


----------



## mralexosborn

Guess who found Cerwin Vega DX9's and Vandersteen 2ce's in my area. XD


----------



## Skylab

While I think that is true to an extent, and for sure people should experiment, there are some pieces that are classics for a reason. One only has to go over and read AudioKarma to see this. something like the SX-1250 has a huge following over there, and it is for a reason. Unfortunately, that does tend to drive-up prices. 

I don't think the pockets of interest in vintage audio here on head-fi has any real influence on prices of vintage gear.


----------



## augustwest

There is a 70's brand that is outstanding, that often gets over looked, it's name is Nikko. Not as well known as Marantz, Kenwood, or the others, but if you see one for sale it is well worth considering. The price will likely be attractive.
   
  - augustwest


----------



## ardgedee

Nikko is definitely a sleeper brand. The Nikko receivers I've seen threading through Ebay have mostly been their low and midline models, though, so I don't know how readily available are the high-power units that are going to be more covetable. Although fwiw, back in the day I had a friend with a low-end Nikko receiver, and it sounded mighty fine for what it was.
   
  Thanks for the peak meter flattery, Skylab. I'm a little disappointed that I can't get the pointers moving under normal listening conditions; I might have to buy one of those silly DJ VU meter boxes after all just to sate my need for a light show.
   
  And I agree with what you say about market influences. However, Head-fi has impressively high traffic volume; it's not so much an individual item getting talked up here will explode the market, but that opinions about audio here are readily findable and contribute noticeably to the collective public opinion. I doubt you'll see people on audiokarma citing opinions here about receivers as often as we'll cite them, but people who do not participate in either, doing due diligence on things they want to buy or sell, will find opinions reinforced by both sites. And that's how the market can shift.
   
  So, guys, you really have to start talking down those lousy gosh-darn AU-717s.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ha! Loved reading your comments on the Marantz. I agree that the Marantz receivers are ultra-smooth. I love my 2275 - it is in my office, and drives the HE-6 very well - I use it every day.
> 
> And yeah...the vintage bug sure bit me, so watch your wallet!


 


  I got another five bucks in my wallet just in case!


----------



## blur510

can anyone tell me if the sansui 7070 is any good? tried to do seach but nothing really relevant came up..


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> can anyone tell me if the sansui 7070 is any good? tried to do seach but nothing really relevant came up..


 


  Google is your friend.  Here's the first hit.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138900


----------



## blur510

thanks, but the thread didn't really talk about it as a headphone amp.. that's all.. I guess I will have to buy and sell... 
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Google is your friend.  Here's the first hit.
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138900


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


blur510 said:


> thanks, but the thread didn't really talk about it as a headphone amp.. that's all.. I guess I will have to buy and sell...


 
   
  Yeah, sorry, that's what I was trying to get at earlier: There's a lot of uncommon knowledge yet to be learned, since our interest is in using these things as broad-shouldered, he-man, overspec'd and overpec'd, high-featureset headphone amps. That's not really an interest most people have.
   
  Although the rule of thumb so far seems to be that receivers of a particular vintage simply power the headphones directly from the speaker amplifier circuit, putting little more than a clutch of resistors in the way. So, in general, if it makes speakers sound good, it's going to make headphones sound good. If the receiver has enough power, it will even be capable of powering difficult headphones (like the HE-6) through the headphone jack, no speaker tap adaptor needed.
   
  It wasn't until integrated circuits got small enough and cheap enough, during late 80s or 90s, that integrated audio equipment generally started using a separate output stage specifically for the headphone jack, divorcing the headphones from the power amp.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Not a vintage amp, but I picked up a teac eqa-10 equalizer today. I know, I know, it's early 80's gear, it's probably not the greatest sound quality, or any of that but at the price ($2) it was definitely worth it. The only thing is, some of the led's are very dim on the equalizer pannel, any suggestions? I was hoping to find some nicer stuff at the yardsales and fleamarkets today, but no such luck, just some 80's fisher gear and an old sears all-in-one turntable/tuner/amp combo that didn't seem to be too great


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah, sorry, that's what I was trying to get at earlier: There's a lot of uncommon knowledge yet to be learned, since our interest is in using these things as broad-shouldered, he-man, overspec'd and overpec'd, high-featureset headphone amps. That's not really an interest most people have.
> 
> ...


 
  When I picked up the Marantz 2215B the last thing I thought about was the headphone section but as it turns out the headphone section is quite respectable.  Plenty of power to drive the LCD-2 and not embarrass itself.  Bass response with the 2215B and the LCD is definitely surprising, it is deep and it's tonal portrayal retains its integrity throughout.   I was thinking last night that the 2215B must be supplying its headphone power directly from the amp circuit.  It does  drive the Audio Technica ATH 700AD and the Grado 80i much better though.   I'm wondering what would be the ideal pair of cans with this unit.
   
  The FM section is no slouch either.  I hooked up an Audioprism 6500 antenna to it and the FM signal is full bodied and dimensional.  Almost makes listening to FM enjoyable again, almost. Even the AM signal is impressive.


----------



## blur510

thanks I guess I will  be on craigslist more often, this all new to me so it's kinda exciting to be able to see and hear all these vintage goodies..
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah, sorry, that's what I was trying to get at earlier: There's a lot of uncommon knowledge yet to be learned, since our interest is in using these things as broad-shouldered, he-man, overspec'd and overpec'd, high-featureset headphone amps. That's not really an interest most people have.
> 
> ...


----------



## shipsupt

I've made room now for the SX-650 to have a sort of permanent home now.  Currently I set it up with an Airport Express to a Headroom Micro DAC to the receiver.  This is working well, but I'd like to free up the Micro to go back with it's brother Micro Amp as it's become a nice combo for my office set up and I don't want to have to plug/unplug it.  My Stello is close by, but is limited on outputs, so again I don't want to have to switch interconnects when I switch between amps.
   
  I was thinking of keeping the vintage (budget) thing going and adding a "vintage" DAC, maybe a tube DAC.  Anyone have any recommendations or experiences to share?  I'd prefer something that would allow me to connect directly to the AE optically.
   
  Sorry if this is a bit off topic...
  Cheers!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I've made room now for the SX-650 to have a sort of permanent home now.  Currently I set it up with an Airport Express to a Headroom Micro DAC to the receiver.  This is working well, but I'd like to free up the Micro to go back with it's brother Micro Amp as it's become a nice combo for my office set up and I don't want to have to plug/unplug it.  My Stello is close by, but is limited on outputs, so again I don't want to have to switch interconnects when I switch between amps.
> 
> I was thinking of keeping the vintage (budget) thing going and adding a "vintage" DAC, maybe a tube DAC.  Anyone have any recommendations or experiences to share?  I'd prefer something that would allow me to connect directly to the AE optically.
> 
> ...


 
  I just sold off my Theta Ds Pre DAC.  I don't know of many stand alone DACs that came before that one.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I was thinking of keeping the vintage (budget) thing going and adding a "vintage" DAC, maybe a tube DAC.  Anyone have any recommendations or experiences to share?  I'd prefer something that would allow me to connect directly to the AE optically.


 

 Don't think there is any such thing as a vintage DAC.  But a tube DAC might be a good match.  The Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-09 gets some good press and it runs $215 right now.


----------



## ardgedee

I am not always a good person. I'm quick to anger, occasionally glib. Sometimes I take the last cookie in the jar and sometimes I don't help little old ladies across the street.
   
  I don't consider myself due for any kind of preemptive showering of positive karmic reward. But I do my best to be a good person.
   
  And friends, I am here to tell you, that if you, too, do your best to be a good person, you may be rewarded in small ways from time to time.
   

   
  Current net investment: Nothing.
   
  I was delivering a tall stack of old computer kit to a charity electronics recycling event going on in the next township, and this stray pup was half-buried in one of the pallets. I asked a worker if I could take it home, he shrugged and said sure, whatever. One of the other workers recognized what I'd grabbed and reminisced for a while about the old Heathkit tubed mono amps he had built. Good times.
   
  So now I have an AR-1500, just like Dad's. Well, not really. Nothing - even old receivers with heavy-gauge stamped steel chassis - survives being thrown into a crate unscathed. There's a dent in the incredibly thick metal baseplate that looks heinous but isn't touching anything inside. The AM antenna's been torn off entirely, leaving a few cat's whisker wires behind. The faceplate labeling the buttons is long gone. The balance knob indicates that there's a channel reversal somewhere inside. I haven't tried plugging in any outboard gear other than a pair of headphones, so I can't tell you how anything other than the FM tuner and headphone jacks work.
   
  The tuner behaves just as poorly as Dad's did -- seriously, your average discount store portable radio pulls in more stations. The glue for the sheet labeling the buttons on his receiver failed too. But it's the idiosyncratic features that make this. The entire backplane is a heatsink. There's a pair of RCA jacks nestled alongside the component inputs. They're labeled Horiz and Vert. That's for an oscilloscope. Because if you're going to be serious about your FM listening, you are going to need an O-scope to be sure you're locked into a station with the utmost precision. Somewhat defeated by the quality of the tuner, in action, but this kind of overreaching always deserves respect.
   
  The late-century cabinet style, combined with the brass plate, chrome and black trim, and 1968 Ford Fairlane speedometer-style radio vernier, is distinct for gear of this caliber. It looks like it belongs in a room full of Ethan Allen furniture, under the lid of a tweed-lined console stereo with turned legs and dark walnut finish. Add a rich red shag wall-to-wall carpet, decoratively patterned wallpaper and wrought-iron chandelier to complete the look.
   
  Not like Serious Audio Gear in a Serious Audio Room, you know.
   
  However, it posts specs that put its preamp and amp sections on par with the Harmon-Kardon HK930. Which is Quite Serious, as audio gear of the time goes. The amplifier section was rated at 60 watts per channel RMS. The circuitry errs towards simple and direct; there's a lot of free space inside the case, aside from the massive power input section. The cosmetically-identical AR-1500A revision made the output circuit behave even more gracefully under load. Whether this particular puppy has the upgraded AR-1500A amplifier boards, I don't know. The previous owner was serious about his AR-1500, judging by the series of service tags still partially stuck to the underchassis, so it's possible.
   
  I fully expect this will need more TLC than my two hands are capable of. But I will make sure it is provided for.
   
   Interestingly, the gentleman who designed this for Heathkit has his own website. And he has a little to say about the AR-1500. And the 'scope intended to go with it.

   
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wualta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I hope you get the Heathkit some day, because, well, dads are just cool, that's all, and like old electrolytics, they don't last forever.


 

 Thanks, man. I'm going to clean this up as best I can and tell him what I found. And, yes, you are absolutely correct on all counts.


----------



## Insidious Meme

^^^ You know, that almost made me cry manly tears. Great that you are able to find a bit of a touchstone to your past.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone familiar with a Yamaha CR-820?  Someone in a few towns over is selling one.  I got the bug now.
  Here is link to the model
  http://www.vintageaudioonline.com/yamaha-cr-820-receiver/


----------



## ardgedee

I owe you an update on how this sounds, now that it's plugged into things.
   
  It sounds...
   
  incredible.


----------



## blur510

I know right? There is a yamaha cr-1020 close by so I am wondering if it's worth picking up... 
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Anyone familiar with a Yamaha CR-820?  Someone in a few towns over is selling one.  I got the bug now.
> Here is link to the model
> http://www.vintageaudioonline.com/yamaha-cr-820-receiver/


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> I know right? There is a yamaha cr-1020 close by so I am wondering if it's worth picking up...


 

  
  Pick them up if it's in your price range. I have CR-1020. To me, it sounds very smooth and natural (but not smooth and spacious as my Luxman R-1120a). Sometime I prefer it to my pioneer sx-1050 and sx-1250. Pioneers sound airy and quick, and sometimes you feel hollow. I was also informed not to pick up CR-xx40 line because of lack of parts. But Cr-xx20 line is very good, and build quality is above par of 70's stuff.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





augustwest said:


> There is a 70's brand that is outstanding, that often gets over looked, it's name is Nikko. Not as well known as Marantz, Kenwood, or the others, but if you see one for sale it is well worth considering. The price will likely be attractive.
> 
> - augustwest


 

 I can add some brands here, I have at least one piece those brands. They are somehow out of radar of most people, and can pick up comparatively cheap.
  Technics
  Fisher
  Sanyo JCX line
  Optonica
  Setton They are just pioneers with very interesting design
  To me, they all sounds good, but may feel a little flat. They just lack characteristics of big name. You may say they didn't color sound well since they don't sound fun and interesting sometimes.
  That can explain why they don't have many followers. But I still want to try Hitachi, Toshiba, Akai, and Concept in the near future. 70's is really golden age of stereo!!


----------



## RexAeterna

bored so here's a quick pic of the most under rated of all kenwoods and don't get much notice i think.







very nice sounding unit i personally think and tuner section is just killer with crystal clear reception using some 24 awg copper wire as a ghetto antenna.


----------



## WNBC

What is high speed DC and zero switching?
  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> bored so here's a quick pic of the most under rated of all kenwoods and don't get much notice i think.
> 
> 
> very nice sounding unit i personally think and tuner section is just killer with crystal clear reception using some 24 awg copper wire as a ghetto antenna.


----------



## ardgedee

Good explanations from a couple different people on AudioKarma. The short form is that starting in the late 70s higher-speed power transistors were available, and equipment using them were promoted thusly. There are varying opinions regarding the technology, of course.
   
  Marketers for all the major receiver brands used terms like _high speed_ and _fast switching_ in their literature. Engineers call it _slew rate_. Audiophiles refer to it as _transient response_.
   
  The EE-savvy guys here can do a better job of explaining the technology involved.


----------



## Dynobot

Just a Marantz 2230, sounds good to me...


----------



## moodyrn

I got my 9600 yesterday. The bad news is after giving it a thorough cleaning both inside and out, the left channel still doesn't work. I had suspected this because when I first tried it out, the right channel would come in an out intermittently but the left channel never did anything. The good news is, I've located the problem and don't think there's a blown board. There are 10 pins that's soldered to both power supply boards. All of the ones on the left board are broken off. I thought about fixing it myself, but I decided to play it safe and take it to the repair shop. Also this thing is in excellent cosmetic condition and it would be a shame to let something this beautiful go to wast.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I got my 9600 yesterday. The bad news is after giving it a thorough cleaning both inside and out, the left channel still doesn't work. I had suspected this because when I first tried it out, the right channel would come in an out intermittently but the left channel never did anything. The good news is, I've located the problem and don't think there's a blown board. There are 10 pins that's soldered to both power supply boards. All of the ones on the left board are broken off. I thought about fixing it myself, but I decided to play it safe and take it to the repair shop. Also this thing is in excellent cosmetic condition and it would be a shame to let something this beautiful go to wast.


 

 Yes, please restore such a beauty!! Congrats!!


----------



## wualta

Quote:


dbel84 said:


> ... this is one of those beastly masterpieces...  I don't own one but have heard one driving electrostatics before and it is a classic mosfet powerhouse..dB   ( ps - power amp only so needs a preamp or some sort of controller)


 

 Those big Mitsus are fun to look at and play with and idiosyncratic as all get-out (a bolt-on preamp section? wild!). One thing they don't have, however, is MOSFET output transistors.
   
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Incidentally, there's been a parade of interesting vintage receivers and integrateds marching through Ebay recently, going for cheap -- by comparison to the brands frequently discussed here -- because they're not one of the brands frequently discussed here.


 
   
  This is so true, it's like.... _true_, man. There are a few very popular receivers that go for thousands of dollars, and yes, it *is* for a reason. Well, a couple of reasons. People love the way they look. They also happen to sound good.
  And, let's face it, size matters. So it's not just the sound. You can get good sound and/or high power in a much less fancy wrapper, and you might just end up paying less. Just a wild, crazy, quasi-heretical thought.


----------



## franklyshankly

I have not read up on this thread yet, and I do plan to, but first I want to ask this question that I originally posted in the "amp for LCD2" thread. Here it is:
   
  "For those that know about using vintage amps in this way [for headphones], how does this sound: get something like the Meier StageDAC (or any other DAC/preamp combo) that has a built in preamp, then feed that into a vintage amp, the DAC/preamp being fed by Pure/iPod with coax ... would this allow me to fully harness the benefit of vintage amp?"
   
  Sorry for the noobiness of this question, I will read through this thread to educate myself, but for now I'm really unclear on how speakers amps work with headphones. It sounds like some vintage amps have a separate amp for headphones, while others use the full amp for headphones.
   
  I want to get into vintage stuff for a few reasons, but only if it makes sense for my purpose. If I get a preamp/DAC combo and plug it into a vintage amp (first of all, can I even do this?), then how would this affect the sound quality? My limited understanding is that if using a preamp, the main amp becomes a source of power only, while the preamp provides the tone or musical character.
   
  If I use a nice DAC/preamp combo, will I be getting the most out of a vintage amp? Or do i need to DIY some way to connect headphone cables to speaker outs?
   
  Does my question even make sense? Basically I want to know how to use vintage amps with LCD2 using a DAC ... if i need a preamp fine, if not, fine ... thanks for any guidance you can offer.


----------



## BmWr75

No preamp needed.  Plug the StageDAC fixed ouptuts into the vintage receiver AUX input.  Plug the LCDs into the vintage receiver HP out.  Control volume, balance, bass, treble, etc., using the receivers controls.  Enjoy!!


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





augustwest said:


> There is a 70's brand that is outstanding, that often gets over looked, it's name is Nikko. Not as well known as Marantz, Kenwood, or the others, but if you see one for sale it is well worth considering. The price will likely be attractive.
> 
> - augustwest


 

 The Alpha line of amps are somewhat popular.  I watched Nikko auctions for a couple of years.  The receivers go for low prices and should be a good deal if they sound as good as I've read.  The Alpha amps tend to go for a bit more money, though not in the range of Marantz, Sansui, or Pioneer.


----------



## ardgedee

_Preamp_ can be a confusing term.
   
  In general, a component audio system has to have these four things at a minimum:

 Audio source (such as a DAC) providing a line-level output
 Volume control
 Amplifier appropriate for the transducers
 Transducers (either headphones or speakers)
   
  If you've got all four, you've got the minimum equipment lineup needed.
   
  Since receivers are multifunction units, by definition they contain three of the four items above (an FM tuner for the source, volume control, and amplifier), and only lack the speakers or headphones. In addition, there are a variety of knobs and switches for managing multiple audio sources, changing the character of the sound, bypassing the things that change the character of the sound, and so on. Integrated amps are almost exactly the same -- they only lack the radio.
   
  So if you've got a DAC and a receiver and a pair of headphones, you're probably set. Oh yeah - as long as you've got wires to connect them all.


----------



## blur510

I added a preamp to my set up, so now I have a dac>pre amp (mar ear+) >amp (gilmore lite) and headphone. In this setup I have 2 volume controls. What the pre amp did for me was increase my volume by a lot.  What is confusing to me where to have each volume at..
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> _Preamp_ can be a confusing term.
> 
> In general, a component audio system has to have these four things at a minimum:
> 
> ...


----------



## RexAeterna

wnbc said:


> What is high speed DC and zero switching?




basically what ardgedee mentioned. it's actually one of the cleaner sounding kenwoods i heard. it sounds like a direct coupled amp due to it's clarity with my speakers it produces and for how little this unit is and only rated 40wpc@8ohm, it's more powerful then it looks and can drive 4ohm loads very effeciently as well with no issues. headphones is not bad either at all. has couple 560ohm@1/2w resistors between the headphone out and power amp section.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wualta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *[snip]* There are a few very popular receivers that go for thousands of dollars, and yes, it *is* for a reason. Well, a couple of reasons. People love the way they look. They also happen to sound good.
> And, let's face it, size matters. So it's not just the sound. You can get good sound and/or high power in a much less fancy wrapper, and you might just end up paying less. Just a wild, crazy, quasi-heretical thought.


 

 The run-with-the-crowd aspect shouldn't be discredited or, to be fair, sneered at either. The SX-1250 et al have been scrutinized from all angles, have an active user community, and they're good. So if you prefer your gratification more on the instant side, or especially if you don't have a lot of money, something from the this list is the pragmatic choice: Buy one good unit, enjoy the sound, be done with it.
   
  What does money have to do with it? Well, it's cheaper to spend $500 on one healthy, refurbished amp than $50 each on several amps that need work. Lots of small cheap things can add up to more than one big thing! What you miss out on with a single expense is the pleasure of experimentation, the thrill of the hunt, and the exploration of sounds. But if that's not your cup of tea anyway... not a problem.
   
  (My other hobby, bicycling, is full of people who dwell on how little they paid for one precious component, ignoring the garage full of stuff they'd bought before learning the hidden value of that one thing.)
   
  So thankfully, the vanguard's already benchmarked a few Flavors of the Month, and continues to look outward. It continues to be fun seeing what people are dragging in here.


----------



## Skylab

Exactly. Different people have different goals. I don't want to buy stuff I have to fix up, generally. That's why all of the vintage pieces I have bought were already overhauled and serviced, andwere the stuff that already has a strong reputation. For me, that's the best way. For many others, there are far better ways to go that can potentially save more money, and be more fun, for them. I'm really into enjoying what I get, more than fussing with it. So yeah, I paid a bunch for my SX-1980. But I have been enjoying it constantly since it arrived. I litterally can't wait for the chances I get each day to listen to it. For me thats what it's all about.

I also freely admit that I am big into the aesthetics and cosmetics of my gear. Always have been. I want it to look cool, to me.


----------



## moodyrn

It's not fair to throw criticism at people who go out and spend a lot of money on vintage gear. There are two camps. Some people do enjoy the thrill of the hunt and fun in trying to fix these units. But in a perfect world, the easiest thing to do is to buy something in pristine condition that works perfectly, looks great and sounds even better. That is how I prefer to do it. But a couple of great deals have fallen in my lap from time to time. When I bought my fisher, it was already serviced and in very good condition. All I had to do was open the box, plug it up, turn it on and enjoy. My sx1010 was in good condition, but I had to take it apart and give it a good cleaning. Although it was a fun little project, I still would prefer to go the other route. I told a member in a pm earlier; even if you have to invest several hundreds of dollars I still thought he would be happy with the end result. It would take much more than that not only to surpass what a good vintage piece is capable of, but it would take much more to even match it with a current production component.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I've been trying to pry a working Yamaha CR-820 from someone all weekend but he wants to sell it as a system with Mordaunt-Short bookshelf speakers and a not vintage sony CD player.


----------



## Hente

I'm looking for a cheap amp that I can use to drive my K240 Sextetts & future DT880 600s. I'm noticing a lot of Marantz 22xx receivers on ebay that are going for around $70 - $120. Unfortunately I can't use the search function as I am getting an error when trying to view past page 1, and the results that I have read were just people posting about how they got a killer $5 deal at a garage sale for one (oh god you people are lucky... ;_ so i'm wondering if that price range is good for any Marantz receiver. 

I have also checked Craigslist and no one is selling any 22xx models, can't use that as a reference point.


----------



## blur510

I get the same error. I think rexaeterna said the kenwood kr720 works great with the k 240 sextetts. Those can be bought for under $100.
  Quote: 





hente said:


> I'm looking for a cheap amp that I can use to drive my K240 Sextetts & future DT880 600s. I'm noticing a lot of Marantz 22xx receivers on ebay that are going for around $70 - $120. Unfortunately I can't use the search function as I am getting an error when trying to view past page 1, and the results that I have read were just people posting about how they got a killer $5 deal at a garage sale for one (oh god you people are lucky... ;_ so i'm wondering if that price range is good for any Marantz receiver.
> 
> I have also checked Craigslist and no one is selling any 22xx models, can't use that as a reference point.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I told a friend of mine about my new bug for vintage gear, something that BTW came from out of the blue and just hit me.  Anyway I told him about it and he said go to Goodwill, that's where he gets all his stuff and actually he does get some nice gear there.   So I tell him that I never see anything but junk at the Goodwill.  He laughed and told me his trick.  You have to find a Goodwill in a rich community and go there often. He says his drive is long but definitely worth it.  Now he's got me googling maps...


----------



## blur510

lol good idea.. now I have to do the same... I actually went to goodwill today but like you all I saw was junk, and it was a in a pretty good neighborhood
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I told a friend of mine about my new bug for vintage gear, something that BTW came from out of the blue and just hit me.  Anyway I told him about it and he said go to Goodwill, that's where he gets all his stuff and actually he does get some nice gear there.   So I tell him that I never see anything but junk at the Goodwill.  He laughed and told me his trick.  You have to find a Goodwill in a rich community and go there often. He says his drive is long but definitely worth it.  Now he's got me googling maps...


----------



## WNBC

It's a good enough reason to get out of the house on the weekend.  Grab some ice cream and a vintage receiver.  I'm gonna try it out where all of the Microsoft and Amazon people live.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You have to find a Goodwill in a rich community and go there often. He says his drive is long but definitely worth it.  Now he's got me googling maps...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> It's a good enough reason to get out of the house on the weekend.  Grab some ice cream and a vintage receiver.  I'm gonna try it out where all of the Microsoft and Amazon people live.


 
  I'm going to try a different strategy actually.  I'm going to go up to the big retirement community here  and check out the Goodwill there.  I'm thinking vintage all the way...


----------



## WNBC

The Microsoft people may drop off a Leben at Goodwill that I can pick up for $5  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm going to try a different strategy actually.  I'm going to go up to the big retirement community here  and check out the Goodwill there.  I'm thinking vintage all the way...


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> What is zero switching?


 
  Quick answer: The avoidance of a kind of distortion that becomes important at *low* (read: headphone-listening) power levels: crossover distortion, aka notch distortion, aka switching distortion.
   
  Bla bla bla answer: Not referring to the crossover network in a speaker, but rather to the region of a sine wave where a regular power transistor is about to turn off and then back on, when it's being used in what's called a class AB amplifier, which all of the receivers being discussed here have. Crossover meaning the point on a sine wave where the signal crosses over from positive to negative. It's near the zero line where the trouble happens. And it was originally for a very good reason.
   
  Turns out that letting a regular (read: BJT, Bipolar Junction Transistor) power transistor turn off when no power is being asked of it saves oodles of power and heat, which was the original idea behind class AB, but it also creates a problem, since there was a tendency for the transistors to wake back up just a little too late, creating distortion that actually got worse at low power levels. Which, it turns out, is where most listening is done. On an oscilloscope, a sine wave showed a little hitch in its otherwise smooth curve. This little discontinuity, when displayed by itself, looked like an ugly spike or notch, so this type of distortion was also called notch distortion. The cure turned out to be surprisingly simple. By supplying a little bias current in the region where the transistor was about to turn off so that in effect it almost turned off but didn't, the turning-back-on problem went away. According to AudioKarma's resident amp guru ilimzn, all it took for the simplest implementation was a couple of extra resistors. Of course, things aren't quite this simple in practice. If you'd like to _really_ dig into the topic, see http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/162559-new-class-super-non-switching-need-revival.html
   
  Pioneer called theirs "Non-Switching". Technics called theirs "New Class A". You'll also see the terms "computer bias" or "dynamic bias". All denote a biasing scheme for the output transistors that keeps them on the boil just enough to avoid this switching distortion by letting them _almost_ take a little break as the input signal heads to zero, but then at the last possible second jerking it away. The result is, ideally, a smoother sound (if everything else is working properly, of course), only a slight hit in the power consumption and heatsink temperature departments, and everyone's happy. Note, however, that making a transistor switch _faster_ doesn't necessarily mean it's switching _cleanly_. If you can get fast transistors and bias them cleverly so they don't ever have to switch (ie, act like switches, something they weren't good at 30 years ago), you can, theoretically, have a power stage that can follow the wildest input signal faithfully. Win-win. If you're buying vintage gear, it makes sense to at least consider the models with dynamic bias, which hit the mainstream manufacturers in 1978. It did a lot to knock down the evil "transistor sound" that was beginning to get on everyone's nerves back in the day.

  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> _Preamp_ can be a confusing term.


 
  Very true. It's a name that has stuck, and we're powerless to change it. *Control Amplifier* would be far more descriptive, and is sometimes used, but mostly everyone just says "preamp".


  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The run-with-the-crowd aspect shouldn't be discredited or, to be fair, sneered at either. The SX-1250 et al have been scrutinized from all angles, have an active user community, and they're good. So if you prefer your gratification more on the instant side, or especially if you don't have a lot of money, something from the this list is the pragmatic choice: Buy one good unit, enjoy the sound, be done with it.


 
  Or buy one good $50 unit and be done with it. Your choice.


----------



## RexAeterna

hente said:


> I'm looking for a cheap amp that I can use to drive my K240 Sextetts & future DT880 600s. I'm noticing a lot of Marantz 22xx receivers on ebay that are going for around $70 - $120. Unfortunately I can't use the search function as I am getting an error when trying to view past page 1, and the results that I have read were just people posting about how they got a killer $5 deal at a garage sale for one (oh god you people are lucky... ;_ so i'm wondering if that price range is good for any Marantz receiver.
> 
> I have also checked Craigslist and no one is selling any 22xx models, can't use that as a reference point.




check around nj area. i even know good thrift stores and goodwills since i live in NJ. you got some trading posts and flea markets as well. i would check locally before going to ebay cause shipping can cost arm and a leg on these units and you might end up with a broken unit from the shipping process. are you sure you only want to go marantz route? there is other great sleepers out there. 

 i say best score i ever gotten when it involves using as a dedicated headamp is my small hitachi HA-2 amp for 5 bucks i found when i first decided to start visiting goodwill. great little amp from 1983 and drives my akg 240 sextetts with ease and more then enough headroom in volume. very clean sounding as well. seems to be straight forward amp as well with no type of special sonic qualities so it all comes down to what you plug into it that will offer you it's own unique sound. lot of people say these older sextetts are treble light but i think they're wrong or i'm just very sensitive to higher frequencies cause in certain sources my sextett lps can be very transparent and can be very bright sounding on certain recordings with boosted treble on the eq like a lot of electronic music

basically saying should try other brands and if you can find this little hitachi i say go for it cause if you can find these they are insanely cheap with lots of power and well compacted for headphone use. if you lived closer to me i would of just say hit me up sometime and audition some of my amps with your sextetts or could use mine but Bergenfield is very far from where i'm at. i say check around jersey city and new york area since it seems closer to you.


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta said:


> Or buy one good $50 unit and be done with it. Your choice.




that can happen. i ran to many great amps for less then 100 bucks locally that i use for both speakers and headphones. some brands like pioneer and marantz are more expensive to hype and the name mostly which drives up prices. sansui use to be way under the radar untill people started hyping up the famous G-series and Au-series. now prices on sansui sky rocketed a lot since i started coming here. one of my favorite amps i want to buy locally pretty bad that i found is a little Electro voice amplifier with matching tuner. guy only wants 45 bucks for the amp and 35 for the matching tuner. amazing condition on the outside and in and works flawlessly..


----------



## cifani090

What do you guys think an Onkyo 4500 with a little work needed to be done, and a pair of vintage Omega's go for? Im looking to sell them in a few weeks and im thinking around $200


----------



## WNBC

Thank you for the detailed answer.  I need a good book(s) on this technical stuff.  Even though I don't need to know it to appreciate my headphones and receivers it would be nice to know to how they work.  I found this set of links to technical books online.  Forget how I stumbled upon them but a great resource.  Now that would be very cool if I could replace my own transistors and caps on my AU-717. 
   
http://www.pmillett.com/tubebooks/technical_books_online.htm
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *wualta* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Quick answer: The avoidance of a kind of distortion that becomes important at *low* (read: headphone-listening) power levels: crossover distortion, aka notch distortion, aka switching distortion.
> ...


----------



## sluker

Does any one have experience with the Toshiba receivers? In particular the SA5000. Any insight/opinions would be welcome.


----------



## TruBrew

I was wondering if anyone has heard the Pioneer SA-7800, and TX-7800. I am just wondering how they compare to my SX-950. The SA less power, but that doesn't mean everything. There is a guy selling those on CL. It is probably about a 45 minute drive from my place. He is also asking what I feel is a bit much. $250 for the amp, and $200 for the tuner. The tuner seems more overpriced than the amp. Still, I was wondering how they would compare. I would likely not keep both the SX and SA, if that helps. I am not going to buy it just for fun, I don't need another rig, and I don't have tons of extra space.


----------



## mythless

The Pioneers should sound very similar, I've only noticed the Fluoroscan ones to sound very different from the rest.  I personally think $450 is too much.  However, tuners will always be, in many cases, more expensive than amplifiers because they are more rare.  I am assuming and I could be wrong when CD came into play tuners were forgotten and probably thrown away to save space for the "better" items. 
   
  But, the SA-7800 is really a nice amp.
  
  Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I was wondering if anyone has heard the Pioneer SA-7800, and TX-7800. I am just wondering how they compare to my SX-950. The SA less power, but that doesn't mean everything. There is a guy selling those on CL. It is probably about a 45 minute drive from my place. He is also asking what I feel is a bit much. $250 for the amp, and $200 for the tuner. The tuner seems more overpriced than the amp. Still, I was wondering how they would compare. I would likely not keep both the SX and SA, if that helps. I am not going to buy it just for fun, I don't need another rig, and I don't have tons of extra space.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I was wondering if anyone has heard the Pioneer SA-7800, and TX-7800. I am just wondering how they compare to my SX-950. The SA less power, but that doesn't mean everything. There is a guy selling those on CL. It is probably about a 45 minute drive from my place. He is also asking what I feel is a bit much. $250 for the amp, and $200 for the tuner. The tuner seems more overpriced than the amp. Still, I was wondering how they would compare. I would likely not keep both the SX and SA, if that helps. I am not going to buy it just for fun, I don't need another rig, and I don't have tons of extra space.


 
   


 What?? Sa-7800 for $250 and TX-7800 for $200. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have SX-450,SX-1050  SX-1250, SX-727 and SA-6800.  Comparing SA-6800 to SX-1050 and SX-1250, at flat setting, SA is more low mid-range and bass focus, and has less sound stage ( maybe more detail sound of SX opens the sound stage). SA-X800 can be very fun with bass heavy music. 
  But If you can find a SX-x2x in your price range, you should definitely pick it up. The sound of SX-x2x is different from SX-xx50. It sounds lay back and very smooth and warm, not energetic and aggressive as Sx-xx50. I learned that the early SS was designed to sound like tube, so it's not surprise that 1972 SX-x2x has this signature. I also had Sansui 5000a , and it share the same warm sound of Pioneer SX-727.  Oh, this warm sound is not like SA-6800, it still has every tiny detail and didn't shadow the high and low. I think my modern Rotel and NAD also have this kind of warm sound. You will enjoy your jazz, country and classic music with this warm sound. I remember one member here has SX-1010 and he sang high praise for SX-1010. And from what I read, the SX-1010 also has this warm sound. I think other than SX-xx50 line, the early Pioneer is worth seeking.


----------



## blur510

I bought this kenwood Kr-720 today for $60, it works quite well with my LCD2.. So happy with it, I think I am selling my headphone amps.


----------



## Hente

rexaeterna said:


> Stuff




Thanks a lot for the reply, I've actually checked a thrift store & goodwill near me but I haven't found anything, and the only flea market that I know of only sets up every half year or so. I don't have a car either so I can't drive fat enough to get to any other stores nearby either. :\ I'd be fine with anything really, half the reason why I wanted to get any Marantz model was because of their aesthetics haha. They look really damn good and, from what I've read, are worth the money people invest into them. 

I haven't heard about any of those trading posts though, i'll try to look into them, thanks!


----------



## RexAeterna

hente said:


> rexaeterna said:
> 
> 
> > Stuff
> ...




yea marantz do have very pretty looking gear. but as they say don't judge a book by it's cover. my little hitachi might not look the best in the world and consider BPC(black piece of crap) by lot cause it's from the 80's era but it's far more impressive then it looks and i use as an extra dedicated stand a lone headamp cause how well it drives my 600ohm sextetts LP so effortlessly. i'm not bragging about it cause of the price i got it at. if it was junk then i would say it's junk but it's very nice small compact unit. speaker wise if your not using anything under 8ohms it can be nice cause the power supply is not hefty enough to handle 2ohm-4ohm loads very well so my speakers i have is out of the question. it's so-so with speakers but headphones i like it.

my suggesting would be if you still need to get something off ebay check out some H.H Scott receivers. lovely solid state and tube receivers that can be had for a good price.


----------



## RexAeterna

blur510 said:


> I bought this kenwood Kr-720 today for $60, it works quite well with my LCD2.. So happy with it, I think I am selling my headphone amps.




congrats on the kenwood. if you don't mind me suggesting if you want a stronger reception you can either use some left over speaker wire on the 75ohm FM on the back or if don't have have speaker wire sitting around if you have extra rca jacks,lamp cords,extension cable,basically anything involving copper wiring(every plug is the same and uses copper wiring) you can strip them and be used as an antenna.

also what i do to test the tuner if buying at a store/trading post. i use my fingers on the back cause your body will act like one big antenna.


----------



## franklyshankly

How does one determine the headphone out specs for various vintage amps? It seems as if there is quite a bit a discrepancy between headphone jack quality and output, so I'd like to be able to find a receiver that works best for LCD2's. I know there are a few that are really popular for the LCD2s, maybe I should just stick with these?
   
  Also, for anyone who has compared vintage amps to something like Burson, Violectric, and Woo amps, how would you describe the difference? Assuming the popular vintage amps can be had refurbished for around $500 or less, are the newer dedicated headphone amps worth the extra $2-500 in terms of sound quality?


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> How does one determine the headphone out specs for various vintage amps? It seems as if there is quite a bit a discrepancy between headphone jack quality and output, so I'd like to be able to find a receiver that works best for LCD2's. I know there are a few that are really popular for the LCD2s, maybe I should just stick with these?
> 
> Also, for anyone who has compared vintage amps to something like Burson, Violectric, and Woo amps, how would you describe the difference? Assuming the popular vintage amps can be had refurbished for around $500 or less, are the newer dedicated headphone amps worth the extra $2-500 in terms of sound quality?


 

 I'm using my LCD-2 out of a Marantz 2385. I was using it balanced out of my NFB-10ES. The NFB just gets used as a DAC now, the Marantz is that good. Effortless power. 
   
  How the 185 watts per channel translates to the Headphone jack I couldn't tell you, but the ability to tweak the tones has even given my K702 a new lease of life.


----------



## ardgedee

I have the Violectric HPA-100, and I haven't turned it on since getting the Harmon/Kardon receiver. The H/K has sounded as good as (if not better than) the HPA-100 with my usual go-to headphones (HE-6 and K240 Sextett).
   
  Now for the "yeah, but" part: The H/K is massive. If you're short on space, you should note that the Violectric HPA-series amps are probably around 1/12 the size, by volume. If you're trying to conserve energy, the H/K is a hungry beast.
   
  The Violectric sounds very, very, very good. It runs quieter than the Harmon/Kardon amp, and it's less unwieldy to use. The H/K can give the HiFiMan phones the power they crave and the Violectric can't. With more efficient headphones, the Violectric holds its own.
   
  So the upshot is: If you buy the Violectric, you have a known quantity with a manufacturer's warranty, in a compact, efficient single-function package that works well with a broad range of headphones. With a higher-powered vintage receiver, you have an amp that's far more versatile in function which might or might not be better. It might or might not require a visit to the shop if you buy it online. Either way to go is a perfectly valid decision.


----------



## franklyshankly

Quote: 





> I was using it balanced out of my NFB-10ES. The NFB just gets used as a DAC now, the Marantz is that good


 
  This is REALLY impressive! I suppose I don't really need to know the specs as long as I know that people who have the choice prefer the vintage. That is so cool. I do like the versatility of being able to EQ, and later on add some small bookshelf speakers if I want. That Marantz is a fine lookin amp!
   
  Ardge: thanks for the reply. Yeah, the size of the Violectric is more convenient but I have to admit there is something seductive about a 50 pound amp powering a pair of headphones! It's a tough call because the V200 is very sexy and compact, but I think the versatility of vintage may end up swaying me ... the good news is that you're right, either way can't go wrong.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> How does one determine the headphone out specs for various vintage amps? It seems as if there is quite a bit a discrepancy between headphone jack quality and output, so I'd like to be able to find a receiver that works best for LCD2's. I know there are a few that are really popular for the LCD2s, maybe I should just stick with these?
> 
> Also, for anyone who has compared vintage amps to something like Burson, Violectric, and Woo amps, how would you describe the difference? Assuming the popular vintage amps can be had refurbished for around $500 or less, are the newer dedicated headphone amps worth the extra $2-500 in terms of sound quality?


 

 At worst, vintage amps probably have a series resistor to knock down the power of the amp section.  At best they have a resistor network.  I doubt either case will create problems for vintage or new orthos.  You'll get plenty of power.


----------



## ardgedee

A quick note here on the Heathkit AR-1500: Sound through the headphone outputs are distinctly non-fabulous. Without popping the hood, I'm incapable of saying whether this is because of the design or the current state of the amp (channels are reversed on the headphone jacks, so it's already known-flawed). The Sextett sounds like it's got a sock on it. I haven't experimented to see if other phones sound better yet.
   
  Through the speaker taps, the HE-6 sounds as good as I've ever heard it. Qualitatively, it's a hybrid of the Harmon/Kardon's relatively dry stereotypically solid-state sound and The Fisher X-202-B's lush stereotypically tube sound. So it's a keeper, no question, and hope I can get it on a good tech's workbench sometime soon.


----------



## mralexosborn

Is a pair of JBL L80t's worth $250? They have yet to be refoamed but otherwise are in near perfect condition. 
   
  I found an Akai 1710W in my area for $15! I think I will get it if it is in working condition.


----------



## cardude

Anyone familiar with a Luxman R-3030 receiver?  I have a chance to buy one locally that is in great condition, with all lights and meters working.  I would put this in my bedroom rig.  Any opinions?  Thanks.


----------



## blur510

I was just thinking that... 
  
  Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> This is REALLY impressive! I suppose I don't really need to know the specs as long as I know that people who have the choice prefer the vintage. That is so cool. I do like the versatility of being able to EQ, and later on add some small bookshelf speakers if I want. That Marantz is a fine lookin amp!
> 
> Ardge: thanks for the reply. Yeah, the size of the Violectric is more convenient but I have to admit there is *something seductive about a 50 pound amp powering a pair of headphones!* It's a tough call because the V200 is very sexy and compact, but I think the versatility of vintage may end up swaying me ... the good news is that you're right, either way can't go wrong.


----------



## sluker

The vintage bug has once again attacked my wallet.
  While looking for a Pioneer SX, I came across this Toshiba SA-7100 locally. I was not able to find any reviews or opinions but for the round sum of $100 I thought I would take a test drive. Everything appears to be in working order so far with the exception of the power switch, which is missing the aluminum knob. I tried it briefly with my speakers and am now listening with the HE5-LE's.
  First impression is that it has a warm sound signature with excellent bass extension.Here is a quick pic.
   

  Toshiba SA-7100 Stereo Receiver
 Couple technical data:
 Manufacturer: Toshiba, Japan
 Sine Power: 2 x 110 watts into 8 ohms
 2 x 140 watts into 4 ohms
 Klirrgrad: 0.1%
 Intermodulation: 0.1%
 Outputs: TAPE REC, DIN, PRE OUT
 Sound controller: bass, treble
 Reception areas: AM / FM
 Power supply: 220/240 V, 50 Hz
 Power consumption: 700 watts
 Dimensions: 520 x 190 x 460 mm
 Weight: 20 kg


----------



## DemonicLemming

Anyone have any thoughts on a Sansui Model 800? Picked one up for my dad recently, and I've been pondering how well it'll do with my LCD-2s, but I wasn't sure if I could use the tape input for my DAC (not sure what the line voltage for vintage stuff was), since all my music is digital. Well, except for one Metallica LP i just bought today, but it hasn't even shipped yet.

Sort of pondering picking up a Marantz cd player, too, but there are so bloody many, I don't even know where to start, or if there are any under $150 worth buying.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on a Sansui Model 800? Picked one up for my dad recently, and I've been pondering how well it'll do with my LCD-2s, but I wasn't sure if I could use the tape input for my DAC (not sure what the line voltage for vintage stuff was), since all my music is digital. Well, except for one Metallica LP i just bought today, but it hasn't even shipped yet.
> 
> Sort of pondering picking up a Marantz cd player, too, but there are so bloody many, I don't even know where to start, or if there are any under $150 worth buying.


 


  Most vintage has enough power to power a slew of headphones.  However, synergy is very important.  I need to find myself another Pioneer Fluoroscan series to use as my main headphone amp. 
   
  Tape in is no different than Aux in.  Heck even the old ceramic phono inputs can be treated like an Aux in without any problem, maybe a bit of equalization.


----------



## blur510

that looks so nice!! 
  
  Quote: 





sluker said:


> The vintage bug has once again attacked my wallet.
> While looking for a Pioneer SX, I came across this Toshiba SA-7100 locally. I was not able to find any reviews or opinions but for the round sum of $100 I thought I would take a test drive. Everything appears to be in working order so far with the exception of the power switch, which is missing the aluminum knob. I tried it briefly with my speakers and am now listening with the HE5-LE's.
> First impression is that it has a warm sound signature with excellent bass extension.Here is a quick pic.


----------



## RexAeterna

mythless said:


> Most vintage has enough power to power a slew of headphones.  However, synergy is very important.  I need to find myself another Pioneer Fluoroscan series to use as my main headphone amp.
> 
> Tape in is no different than Aux in.  Heck even the old ceramic phono inputs can be treated like an Aux in without any problem, maybe a bit of equalization.




ceramic and aux are the same thing basically. they just changed the name of it later(i think late 60's/early 70's) to aux. tape is of course another ceramic input but usually tape/cd/aux all have slightly different output impedance which can(but very rarely) cause issues if trying to tie in multiple amps to one source(not anything to do with bi-amping or anything).


----------



## BobSaysHi

Howdy all, I have not read through this thread (I will tomorrow, most likely).
   
  Has anyone listened to/owned the Sansui 350A receiver? There's one on craigslist near me, and I don't want to pay a whole lot for an amp, since I realized I'm not much of an audiophile. I'm more of a hardcore bang/buck kinda guy. That's irrelevant though.
   
  I'm also getting into Vinyl. I'll try and find the Turntable thread that's been rolling around these parts lately. EDIT: And of course, I couldn't find it.
   
  Thanks a lot for your help.


----------



## Kees

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Most vintage has enough power to power a slew of headphones.  However, synergy is very important.  I need to find myself another Pioneer Fluoroscan series to use as my main headphone amp.
> 
> Tape in is no different than Aux in.  Heck even the old ceramic phono inputs can be treated like an Aux in without any problem, maybe a bit of equalization.


 
  Phono inputs are different and not to be confused with the other inputs.


----------



## mythless

That is very true, I forgot to mention that.  Do not put anything other than a turntable into the phono input, I think I've read you can ruin the circuit board for it.

  
  Quote: 





kees said:


> Phono inputs are different and not to be confused with the other inputs.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





bobsayshi said:


> Howdy all, I have not read through this thread (I will tomorrow, most likely).
> 
> Has anyone listened to/owned the Sansui 350A receiver? There's one on craigslist near me, and I don't want to pay a whole lot for an amp, since I realized I'm not much of an audiophile. I'm more of a hardcore bang/buck kinda guy. That's irrelevant though.
> 
> ...


 


  Depending on your budget, the best bang for your dollar is getting a nice vintage turntable.  Depending on your location and your patience, you can find a high end turntable from the 70s for little money.  Personally, I have found many TOTL or near TOTL turntables less than or equal to $100, of course they're all Japanese make and direct drive.  One day I will get my hands on a Thorens and high end belt drives!
   
  Rest of my money goes into buying either a cartridge or stylus as majority of the cantilevers have been well aged and do not perform as good as a fresh stylus, I have many that has the original stylus but can be a bit harsh sounding.
   
  An recent example would be just to show you what you can find with a bit of patience, and not to boast, I actually stumbled onto it by accident: Bose 901 IV with EQ, Bose Spatial Control Receiver and Technic SL-1600mk2 for with Shure V15 VMR (no stylus) for $150 and some great stories about the ownership of some of these pieces.  Then I go a Jico SAS and a new belt for the Technics, granted I did clean the receiver and the speakers do need a refoam.  But, they soundws pretty good and trying to top this complete system will a be a hard one.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


mythless said:


> That is very true, I forgot to mention that.  Do not put anything other than a turntable into the phono input, I think I've read you can ruin the circuit board for it.


 

 The greater concern you have with plugging anything other than a turntable into a phono input is that the phono line in a receiver/preamp/integrated/etc. is designed to amplify the relatively weak signal from the stylus, and equalize it (read up on the RIAA curve if you want the details). In other words, everything but the phonograph is expected to send an strongly amplified, flat signal, and the phonograph is expected to send a weakly amplified, non-flat signal.
   
  So plugging a DAC, tuner, or tape deck into the phono line will make it sound bad, and not give you your money's worth. You might ruin your equipment too, but for the receivers and integrateds we're discussing in this thread it's unlikely; at worst you'll blow a fuse.
   
  (*Bonus trivia: *When you look at really old hi-fi amplifiers, you'll see switches for multiple phonograph EQ curves. This is because in the early 50s different record manufacturers had competing curves, and it wasn't until the late 50s that what became known as the RIAA curve was settled on. During this time, too, competing reel-to-reel tape decks had different signal output standards, and so you can also find switches on equipment meant to handle having to pre-amplify tapes in different ways, too.)


----------



## mralexosborn

I am getting an Akai 1710W. Woot. 
   
  First 15 year old with a reel to reel?


----------



## Zida

In the last 30 years? Probably.


----------



## dukja

I have a question about general sound characteristics of vintage amps such as Sansui, Marantz, Pioneer, etc. 
   
  Just got HE-6 powered up by Audio-GD Phoenix and NAD216THX.   The super natural and realistic ortho sound really gets me this time, so I am looking for maybe a better vintage amp than my NAD.  After reading some posts here, I had a feeling that these vintage amp may have quite different sound signature, eg. some are more tubey and others more analytical sounding.  Coming from balanced SS gear with Beyer DT880 and T1, I like crystal clear and condensed sound.  Accurate imaging with multi-layer soundstage will be desirable.
   
  With these criteria, do you some vintage amps may be a good fit?


----------



## franklyshankly

Bump, also interested in the differences in sound sig between the most popular vintage amp brands ...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I have a question about general sound characteristics of vintage amps such as Sansui, Marantz, Pioneer, etc.
> 
> Just got HE-6 powered up by Audio-GD Phoenix and NAD216THX.   The super natural and realistic ortho sound really gets me this time, so I am looking for maybe a better vintage amp than my NAD.  After reading some posts here, I had a feeling that these vintage amp may have quite different sound signature, eg. some are more tubey and others more analytical sounding.  Coming from balanced SS gear with Beyer DT880 and T1, I like crystal clear and condensed sound.  Accurate imaging with multi-layer soundstage will be desirable.
> 
> With these criteria, do you some vintage amps may be a good fit?


 


  Since I owned all three I am partial to the Pioneer Silver Series IMO they were the best and most musical. I would look for a SX950 or higher I think the 50 series may be better than the SX980 I had but that was damn good also. What good is the SX950,80 and up can also be used as a stand alone amp with your Phonenix but the preamp are so good in them i thinl you would be happy. If you go Sansui go G8000 or 9000


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Since I owned all three I am partial to the Pioneer Silver Series IMO they were the best and most musical. I would look for a SX950 or higher I think the 50 series may be better than the SX980 I had but that was damn good also. What good is the SX950,80 and up can also be used as a stand alone amp with your Phonenix but the preamp are so good in them i thinl you would be happy. If you go Sansui go G8000 or 9000


 
   
  Frank, thanks to the good recommendation.  It is also good to know that SX950/80 can also be used as power amp alone.  I have seen some working in pure Class A until certain wattage.  That is also a very nice feature since I do plan to drive both HE-6 and my speaker out of it.
   
   
   
  The most common description I got from this thread (still have 99 pages to go. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) used word like "sweet" and "musical", which I translated into smooth treble and midrange.  Still more sonic classification would be greatly appreciated, such as more tube-like of SS-like sound, bass performance (depth, tightness, and control), transparency/clarity, and soundstage, etc.


----------



## Skylab

I can only give you guidelines based on my three models, and what I hear from each.  All of mine have been serviced and re-capped, which makes a difference.
   
  Pioneer SX-1250/1980 - the most neutral and transparent, not bright but in no way warm or tubey.  Powerful, bold sound.  Like a high-end vodka.
   
  Sansui 9090/9090DB - just a touch warm, and less transparent than the 1250, but very good nonetheless.  Like a nice gin.
   
  Marantz 2275 - the lushest of all three, but still remarkably transparent.  This is the one to get if you want a SS receiver that sounds a little more like a tube amp than a SS receiver.  Like a nice single-malt scotch.


----------



## dukja

Thanks a lot, Skylab.  I guess we posted about the same time and yet your post exactly answered my questions.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can only give you guidelines based on my three models, and what I hear from each.  All of mine have been serviced and re-capped, which makes a difference.
> 
> Pioneer SX-1250/1980 - the most neutral and transparent, not bright but in no way warm or tubey.  Powerful, bold sound.  Like a high-end vodka.
> 
> ...


----------



## ardgedee

There's a meetup in Detroit next weekend, and I've proposed an amplifier shootout to see what's best for driving the HE-6.
   
  If it goes down, the popular suspects will be in attendance: amps from AMB, Schiit, Woo... and a couple boxes representing Team Vintage.
   
  Expect surprises. Stay tuned.


----------



## WarriorAnt

anyone have direct experience with a Yamaha CR- 820?   I have a chance to grab one locally.   I'm confused about the headphone jacks  They are labeled  A & B which would seem to imply that one can use two pairs of cans with them but I have slao seen this in front of the jacks.  "Reserved For Yamaha Orthodynamic headphones"  This makes me wonder if these jacks were made for something other than standard headphone use.   Anyone have this unit and can verify?


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> anyone have direct experience with a Yamaha CR- 820?   I have a chance to grab one locally.   I'm confused about the headphone jacks  They are labeled  A & B which would seem to imply that one can use two pairs of cans with them but I have slao seen this in front of the jacks.  "Reserved For Yamaha Orthodynamic headphones"  This makes me wonder if these jacks were made for something other than standard headphone use.   Anyone have this unit and can verify?




you can use either one fine but yea yamaha did that as a marketing thing. so difference between each headphone jack might just be each has a different pair of dropping resistors tied in from the power amp section specifically for just headphone use and orthodynamic use. i'm not sure. i can check to see if i can find the schematics and get back on you from there.


EDIT: just did quick check and nope. no difference on both headphone jacks. each one uses a pair of 220ohm@2w resistors in place for both left and right channel for headphone use.


----------



## mythless

It depends, other than Marantz since I do no have enough experience.  Depending on the series and production date, tonal signatures can vary.  For example, Sansui AU-555a will not sound like the Sansui AU-5500.  My Pioneer SA-9100 has slight different sound over the SA-9500ii and even my old SX-3700.  Even my HK730 sounds different than my PM660.


----------



## dukja

Totally understood.  So, the SQ may need to be shared specifically to a certain series, not just brand, which is totally reasonable.  Please so share more (than just "different").  Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> It depends, other than Marantz since I do no have enough experience.  Depending on the series and production date, tonal signatures can vary.  For example, Sansui AU-555a will not sound like the Sansui AU-5500.  My Pioneer SA-9100 has slight different sound over the SA-9500ii and even my old SX-3700.  Even my HK730 sounds different than my PM660.


----------



## dukja

Next weekend!?  That will be too long of waiting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (or you mean the coming one?)
   
  Please do keep us updated here and in HE-6 thread.  Thanks!
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> There's a meetup in Detroit next weekend, and I've proposed an amplifier shootout to see what's best for driving the HE-6.
> 
> If it goes down, the popular suspects will be in attendance: amps from AMB, Schiit, Woo... and a couple boxes representing Team Vintage.
> 
> Expect surprises. Stay tuned.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> anyone have direct experience with a Yamaha CR- 820?   I have a chance to grab one locally.   I'm confused about the headphone jacks  They are labeled  A & B which would seem to imply that one can use two pairs of cans with them but I have slao seen this in front of the jacks.  "Reserved For Yamaha Orthodynamic headphones"  This makes me wonder if these jacks were made for something other than standard headphone use.   Anyone have this unit and can verify?


 

 The cover over the caps is marketing - Yamaha was (justifiably) proud of their orthodynamic headphones at the time. But it's just a headphone jack.
   
  As for plugging in two at once, some receivers have two jacks, most don't. Since the receiver has only one volume control, both listeners will have to be happy with their respective sound levels, whether or not the headphones are matched.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> you can use either one fine but yea yamaha did that as a marketing thing. so difference between each headphone jack might just be each has a different pair of dropping resistors tied in from the power amp section specifically for just headphone use and orthodynamic use. i'm not sure. i can check to see if i can find the schematics and get back on you from there.
> 
> 
> EDIT: just did quick check and nope. no difference on both headphone jacks. each one uses a pair of 220ohm@2w resistors in place for both left and right channel for headphone use.


 
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The cover over the caps is marketing - Yamaha was (justifiably) proud of their orthodynamic headphones at the time. But it's just a headphone jack.
> 
> As for plugging in two at once, some receivers have two jacks, most don't. Since the receiver has only one volume control, both listeners will have to be happy with their respective sound levels, whether or not the headphones are matched.


 
   
  Thanks for the lightning fast replies!   I'm suddenly bit by this vintage bug and another unit has fallen in my lap on its own.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Like a high-end vodka.


 


  Kept in the freezer until consumed I assume.


----------



## blur510

thanks skylab. The vintage bug has bit me, and now I want to get a pioneer, based on your description.  How are the Pioneers when it comes to spacial presentation?
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can only give you guidelines based on my three models, and what I hear from each.  All of mine have been serviced and re-capped, which makes a difference.
> 
> Pioneer SX-1250/1980 - the most neutral and transparent, not bright but in no way warm or tubey.  Powerful, bold sound.  Like a high-end vodka.
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> thanks skylab. The vintage bug has bit me, and now I want to get a pioneer, based on your description.  How are the Pioneers when it comes to spacial presentation?


 

 Absolutely astonishing, actually - far and away the best of my bunch, and in fact the SX-1980 competes with the best of ANY hi-fi in terms of holographic imaging with speakers.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Absolutely astonishing, actually - far and away the best of my bunch, and in fact the SX-1980 competes with the best of ANY hi-fi in terms of holographic imaging with speakers.


 

 Where did you get your receiver recapped? I just picked up a Pioneer SX-850 off CL for $100 and it works really well. Power button was stiff but I used DeoxIT and it's perfect now. I'm using it exclusively as a headphone amp at the moment as my room is too small for speakers. It sounds really great and powerful but there is a quiet hiss when there's no music playing. Does this mean the receiver should be recapped? How much would something like that cost?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Totally understood.  So, the SQ may need to be shared specifically to a certain series, not just brand, which is totally reasonable.  Please so share more (than just "different").  Thanks!


 

 Alright, but take it with a grain of salt, as they're all based of memory besides the big ol' pioneer gear, haha.
   
  Sansui AU-555A, very mellow sounding, tubes would be my first impression, IIRC it was very smooth and transparent but I think the bottlehead SEX amp did a better job in terms of tonal transparency, Sansui was a bit more lush sounding.
   
  Marantz 2230, lol can't remember...
   
  Sansui AU-5500/AU-6600, not very tubey at all.  Clean, clear and crisp.  Similar to the Pioneer SX-3700, but I found it to be a bit harsh that I needed the high filters to be on.  But, was the best match with my HF2 Vixens.
   
  Pioneer SA-9100, very neutral in presentation, very smooth treble and good bass, not as dynamic or as transparent as the SA-9500ii though, but still a very nice sounding unit.
   
  HK730, probably the best representation of what "tubes" should sound off a solid state receiver.  Very clean and transparent, neutral but a bit on the warm side.  I compared it with my Pioneer SM-B180 Tube receiver.
   
  Luxman L-215/235, utterly a big disappointment.  Very enclosed signature, was not expecting that, lush and somewhat veiled.  If this represented "tube" signature of the 80s, then it did a bad job in doing so.  Reason for disappointment, many people marked these units as "tube sound" my expectation may have been high but, a company such as Luxman I expected much more.  Never heard their 70s units yet.
   
  Technics SU-7700, Sounded like the Luxman, bit on the warm side, not as transparent or dynamic as other units I've heard, but FWIW it was a really nice sounding unit.
   
  Rotel RA-1312, a very neutral sounding unit and looks great, haha that's all I can comment on it.  Despite being a very good performer and really there is nothing special about it's tonal qualities over the other amps/receivers I've owned, I can't seem to part with it.
   
  None of these were serviced and could probably use recap to get them up to factory spec, but I'm quite content.  If I can think of more I will add some more impressions.  I've gone through a lot of mid-end stuff, so I may have heard them before.


----------



## Skylab

I bought all three of my receivers from people who had already had major overhauls done on them (and they provided receipts).  The companies that did the work were local to them, though.


----------



## dukja

Thanks a lot for taking time to write up.  I am taking note...
   
  Quote:


mythless said:


> Alright, but take it with a grain of salt, as they're all based of memory besides the big ol' pioneer gear, haha.


----------



## dukja

I had some candidates but the caps are not replaced. 
   
  What I learned from the Stax thread was that only electrolytic caps that have limited lifespan and need to be replaced.  Are there usually a lot of electrolytic caps to be renewed?  There were about 4 in some Stax amps.
   
  And anything else that needs to be done to recondition them? 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I had some candidates but the caps are not replaced.
> 
> What I learned from the Stax thread was that only electrolytic caps that have limited lifespan and need to be replaced.  Are there usually a lot of electrolytic caps to be renewed?  There were about 4 in some Stax amps.
> 
> ...


 
   
  For their age, yes their are lots.  You could potentially renew just one board, for example the phono section, if you want something in particular but, I think many would agree that it's better to do them all at once.
   
  It depends on how much reconditioning you want, even if it is a working unit, it can still be overhauled, new caps, new resistors, new lamps, tuner alignment, switches all cleaned and lubed, new veneer, etc, the works.


----------



## Zida

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Alright, but take it with a grain of salt, as they're all based of memory besides the big ol' pioneer gear, haha...
> 
> Pioneer SA-9100, very neutral in presentation, very smooth treble and good bass, not as dynamic or as transparent as the SA-9500ii though, but still a very nice sounding unit...


 

  I actually have both an SA-7500 and SA-8500 (both of which are now rather far from prime condition, unfortunately) and know of an SA-9100 available locally. 
   
  Would you say that your SA-x500 amp is tonally brighter than your SA-9100? Is there anything you like more about your 9100 than your 9500-2?


----------



## dukja

Some vintage amp has huge cylinder protruding on top of the case.  The manual said that they are electrolytic capacitors.  Are those capacitors of that size still available?  Or they are huge just because of old technology, so we can replace them with much smaller but similar rating ones?  My concern was the possibility of find replacement parts.
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> For their age, yes their are lots.  You could potentially renew just one board, for example the phono section, if you want something in particular but, I think many would agree that it's better to do them all at once.
> 
> It depends on how much reconditioning you want, even if it is a working unit, it can still be overhauled, new caps, new resistors, new lamps, tuner alignment, switches all cleaned and lubed, new veneer, etc, the works.


----------



## Skylab

The current audio dogma is that it is better to use a bunch of smaller capacitors that add up to the same amount of total filter capacitance as those big boys used to. Whether one big one or a bunch of small ones really is better I do not know personally.


----------



## francisdemarte

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Some vintage amp has huge cylinder protruding on top of the case.  The manual said that they are electrolytic capacitors.  Are those capacitors of that size still available?  Or they are huge just because of old technology, so we can replace them with much smaller but similar rating ones?  My concern was the possibility of find replacement parts.


 
   
  Due to advances in materials, newer capacitors of the same values tend to be smaller so they do not fit the larger clamp that attaches them to the case. I had to jury rig a few using rubber pieces to make up the difference.


----------



## dukja

I just bumped into a webpage: http://www.cdkands.com/index2.html
   
  This guy shows how to retrofit new cap into old base for the look.  It is pretty cool webpage for the vintage fan.
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## WarriorAnt

OK I just grabbed a Yamaha CR- 820 today to add to my Marantz 2215B.  Now I own two vintage receivers so I guess I can officially say I started a vintage collection.    Anyway I have a cleaning question.  What is the best way to clean the inside?   I took the cover off the Yamaha and used my air compressor to blow out all the dust but what is the best way to clean the circuit broads and the caps, transistors, resistors on the boards?   Is there a special electronic wash I can use or spray on or do I have to go at each one with a small semi stiff brush or something.


----------



## 5aces

Go to the very nice link above.

If you click on the Audio Restoration link for the Sansui AU 717 around page three he gets into board cleaning details,Sansui is noteable for old glue issues on the boards.

I realize you have a Yamaha and only want to clean up the boards but there are some good photos and explainations on that site,you will get the idea.

Also,there is a proper tools section on the left side of the page.

This man is a real Old Testament solid state repairman,a pleasure to see his work,thanks for the link,dukja.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Go to the very nice link above.
> 
> If you click on the Audio Restoration link for the Sansui AU 717 around page three he gets into board cleaning details,Sansui is noteable for old glue issues on the boards.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks!  I want to clean up the Yamaha and the Marantz.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Are receivers from the 80's considered vintage?  I have an NAD 7225PE from the late 80's   for some reason I'm thinking only receivers from the 70 and earlier are vintage.


----------



## ardgedee

It's a vintage, although it's probably not going to be considered a classic vintage.
   
  The major American and Japanese brands frantically escalated in power and build through the 70s before imploding in the 80s, while NAD steadily chugged along for the same period making well-built, modestly-scaled equipment. So in the 80s, while the quality of the majors began spiraling downwards, NAD looked increasingly better by comparison even though they hadn't really changed a whole lot qualitatively. Most NAD equipment of that period is respected even if most models fly under the radar.
   
  The best way to tell is your ears, of course. If it sounds good, it's good.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> It's a vintage, although it's probably not going to be considered a classic vintage.
> 
> The major American and Japanese brands frantically escalated in power and build through the 70s before imploding in the 80s, while NAD steadily chugged along for the same period making well-built, modestly-scaled equipment. So in the 80s, while the quality of the majors began spiraling downwards, NAD looked increasingly better by comparison even though they hadn't really changed a whole lot qualitatively. Most NAD equipment of that period is respected even if most models fly under the radar.
> 
> The best way to tell is your ears, of course. If it sounds good, it's good.


 
  Well this particular NAD does sound excellent.          The gear from the 70's though has that "look" to them and the units have that larger size that makes them stand out almost making the sound secondary for me.  The Marantz look is really nice and the 2215B sounds so smooth with headphones.  The Yamaha I have not listened to yet, it has a more utilitarian look to it then the Marantz but it still has that big receiver air about it.  I new to the vintage collection thing, the bug hit me out of the blue just last week so I don't really know if people are collecting for looks and size or more for sound.  I imagine both but even if a receiver from the 70's doesn't sound that great they still look so sweet.


----------



## sluker

WarriorAnt
  Are you using your LCD-2's with the Marantz? Is anyone else (other than skylab)? Please share your impressions.
  I find that both the Sansui AU 717 and the Toshiba 7100 pair really well with the LCD's. Especially the Toshiba. The limited reviews i read of it implied that it was lacking in bass, but I don't hear that at all. The ability to boost the bass on the LCD-2's and especially the HE5-LE's has been one of the best things so far. What I can't believe is how open and detailed this $100/30+ year old amp is with the orthos. If I would have discovered this combination sooner I am not sure I would have looked any further. 
  For now my LF339 and the D7000's are gathering dust.
  Plus, I am still trying to find a good sample of a Pioneer SX 12XX/1980 although the 1980's seem a bit pricey when they come up. There is one on CL locally for $1,500.


----------



## Dan S

Hello vintage fans!
   
  As WarriorAnt says, the bug just struck me last week myself. I picked up a Pioneer sx-650 and sx-780 last week. The guy who sold me the 780 was really nice, showed me the other vintage stuff he was restoring, and emailed me the service manual after I bought the 780.
   
  I've been listening to both, mostly with my HD-650s, and marveling at how much better they sound than with my newish NAD integrated and preamp. I can now see what people mean by the HD-650 veil -- it's been lifted, and man do these phones sing! So much more high quality treble than I'm used to, better resolution, so musical and still nicely warm.
   
  I'm running into a problem with the sx-650, though. After listening to it for about 15 minutes, the right headphone started getting fuzzy. So I shut it off, afraid of ruining my HD-650s. I turned it on again, trying it with my Grado SR-60s, and the same thing happened -- it sounded great at first, and then got fuzzy, maybe sooner this time.
   
  When I bought the sx-650, the guy said that there was some arcing or something with the power switch, so he disabled it, and so the unit's always on if it's plugged in. Are these two things this maybe related? Yikes, I just dipped a toe into this vintage thing, and I think I'm going to have to get into repairing these things, too. Do you guys repair your own gear? How did you get started? How do you troubleshoot what's wrong?
   
  Sorry to pepper you guys with repair questions on my first post to this thread! Any help is appreciated! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  In the meantime, I'm trying to read the whole thread......


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sluker said:


> WarriorAnt
> Are you using your LCD-2's with the Marantz? Is anyone else (other than skylab)? Please share your impressions.
> I find that both the Sansui AU 717 and the Toshiba 7100 pair really well with the LCD's. Especially the Toshiba. The limited reviews i read of it implied that it was lacking in bass, but I don't hear that at all. The ability to boost the bass on the LCD-2's and especially the HE5-LE's has been one of the best things so far. What I can't believe is how open and detailed this $100/30+ year old amp is with the orthos. If I would have discovered this combination sooner I am not sure I would have looked any further.
> For now my LF339 and the D7000's are gathering dust.
> Plus, I am still trying to find a good sample of a Pioneer SX 12XX/1980 although the 1980's seem a bit pricey when they come up. There is one on CL locally for $1,500.


 
  I tried the LCD with the Marantz but it just wasn't happening.  I did try my daughters Audio Technica ATH AD700's and her Grado 80i's and they were much better suited.  We were both amazed by how nice that old receiver sounded. Very enjoyable. It's what sold me on vintage gear right there.  I'm wondering if the sound of the 2215B is a glimpse into the house sound of the higher powered Marantz receivers of the 70's.  If so the higher models must sound pretty smooth and seductive indeed.  If there is a Marantz model that is THE model of that era can someone tell me I want to find it.  I can feel the receiver karma coming my way.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I can only give you guidelines based on my three models, and what I hear from each.  All of mine have been serviced and re-capped, which makes a difference.
> 
> Pioneer SX-1250/1980 - the most neutral and transparent, not bright but in no way warm or tubey.  Powerful, bold sound.  Like a high-end vodka.
> 
> ...


 

 Don't forget I called dibs on the 2275.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> Don't forget I called dibs on the 2275.


 
  Marantz 2275 I feel one moving towards me on the Euclidian plane right now...


----------



## MrQ

.


----------



## Skylab

A low power Marantz like the 2215 probably doesn't have enough juice from the headphone out for the LCD-2.  The 2275 works in that mode because it's 75 wpc into 8 ohms still produces enough power into the LCD-2 even via the headphone out which almost surely has a padding resistor.  I'm not sure a 2215 would have enough power left via the headphone out.
   
  To illustrate what I mean, a receiver with 15 wpc into 8 ohms will deliver 2.4W into 50 ohms - via the speaker outs.  But assuming a 150 ohm resistor in the headphone out (a pretty common value), then the power to the headphone out is 600 mW. 
   
  OTOH, the 75 wpc receiver is delivering 3 W vis the headphone out!
   
  And my SX-1980 is delivering more than 10 watts to the headphone out at 50 ohms - more than enough to send even the HE-6 into submission


----------



## Frank I

Rob is correct. The HE6 did not work out of the headphone out on the 2220B Marantz which was 20W amp. It worked well out of the Pioneer SX650 headout and that is 35W receiver. It sounded best out of the speaker taps on rthe SX980 65W receiver. I have been very happy with my Pioneer SX650 and is my SS amp of choice . It also sound  great driving the Omega Monitors very clean and has plenty of detail. The nice thing it is discrete. Hopefully it serves me well for a few years.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I got a line on a  local Marantz 2238, and a local Technics SA-400,  Marantz 4240, yamaha cr-1040.  NIKKO 501. Marantz 2440 Quad adapter.    I really like the look of the NIKKO 501 but haven't heard back yet.


----------



## Maverickmonk

I have a dumb question: has anyone replaced the resistor to the headphone out with a lower resistance resistor to increase the output wattage? Or would that cause an impedance matching issue?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> I have a dumb question: has anyone replaced the resistor to the headphone out with a lower resistance resistor to increase the output wattage? Or would that cause an impedance matching issue?


 

 I was wondering the same thing.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> I have a dumb question: has anyone replaced the resistor to the headphone out with a lower resistance resistor to increase the output wattage? Or would that cause an impedance matching issue?


 


  not sure if theres any major impedance mismatch issues but for sure lowering the stepdown resistors will increase gain & ensure one lose volume headroom. unless one have a serious inefficient set of headphones (ala hifiman orthos, K1ks & such), i wouldnt bother with it personally. now upgrading the 30+yr olds antiques to better quality boutique resistors would be another matter.
   
  FWIW, the stepdown resistors can range from 150-680ohms depending on vintage, make & model. if output wattage is the objective, i'd go with a speaker tap pigtail adapter instead.


----------



## ardgedee

Upthread a couple months ago, somebody mentioned dropping the resistance in the headphone circuit while refurbing an old tube integrated.
   
  I'll second Scott, though: Unless you're having a hard time getting decent volume or sound quality through the headphone jack with the stock circuit, it's not worth fiddling with. (If it continues to bug you and you feel ambitious, you could try replacing the stock circuit with a switched high/low resistor circuit, and see how that sounds.)


----------



## moodyrn

You might be referring to me, but mine was already serviced and brought up to spec when I bought it. I replaced the 330ohm resistors in my fisher integrated to 165ohm so that I could drive the he-5s I had at the time. But with mine being a tc tube amp, I was still able to drive low impedance cans without any hum or hiss. The only thing that had a little hum was my 16ohm iems. Everything above 20ohm was still dead quiet. I don't know if I would try that with solid state amps because then you could run into impedance mismatch issues. Now that I don't own those anymore I don't have the need for lower value resistors because it drove everything else pretty well and even with the 165ohm resistors, it still couldn't do anything with my current he-6. But ymmv.


----------



## 5aces

Today I was fortunate to insert a new Bel Canto 1.5 blackface DAC into the lineup.

Using the great Sansui AU 20000 as a preamp for the Pioneer M 22 driving a 1975 Stax SR-X MK3.

Bel Canto is fed via spdif,old meets new seems to work and sounds just fine,thanks.


----------



## mralexosborn

I just drooled so hard. Oh my.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





zida said:


> I actually have both an SA-7500 and SA-8500 (both of which are now rather far from prime condition, unfortunately) and know of an SA-9100 available locally.
> 
> Would you say that your SA-x500 amp is tonally brighter than your SA-9100? Is there anything you like more about your 9100 than your 9500-2?


 


  Maybe a tad brighter, but, if it were me I would take the 9500 over the 9100 because it has dual transformers, haha, and the capacitance control is on the front and not on the back like the 9100.  I do like the overall look of the 9100 over the 9500, the wood accent is a nice touch.  The 9100 also have gain controls, -15 and -30dbs for volume.  In terms of size the 9100 is a smaller amp.


  Quote: 





dukja said:


> Some vintage amp has huge cylinder protruding on top of the case.  The manual said that they are electrolytic capacitors.  Are those capacitors of that size still available?  Or they are huge just because of old technology, so we can replace them with much smaller but similar rating ones?  My concern was the possibility of find replacement parts.


 

 Regarding capacitors, size will be smaller.  However, my tech says capacitors either work or they don't and him personally he would not suggest a complete recap unless it is needed.  Rather, he would just replace the caps that need to be.  He's an honest guy.


----------



## Skylab

5Aces that is a really sweet looking rig. Nice.


----------



## 5aces

Much obliged to the designers of yore for sure Skylab,this system is the bomb says the mascot:



I'll plug a fully loaded Canto 3.5 in soon....


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Maybe a tad brighter, but, if it were me I would take the 9500 over the 9100 because it has dual transformers, haha, and the capacitance control is on the front and not on the back like the 9100.  I do like the overall look of the 9100 over the 9500, the wood accent is a nice touch.  The 9100 also have gain controls, -15 and -30dbs for volume.  In terms of size the 9100 is a smaller amp.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding capacitors, size will be smaller.  However, my tech says capacitors either work or they don't and him personally he would not suggest a complete recap unless it is needed.  Rather, he would just replace the caps that need to be.  He's an honest guy.


 

 Your repair guy is right. Capacitors aren't like resistors that can go out of spec. As long as there are no leaks they are fine. But there's nothing wrong if you're replacing them with better sounding capacitors. And doing a complete recap job may not be necessary, but since the caps are so old, it might not be a bad idea to do a full recap in case some do go bad in the future. At least that way you may be well covered for the next 20+ years.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Today I was fortunate to insert a new Bel Canto 1.5 blackface DAC into the lineup.
> 
> Using the great Sansui AU 20000 as a preamp for the Pioneer M 22 driving a 1975 Stax SR-X MK3.
> 
> Bel Canto is fed via spdif,old meets new seems to work and sounds just fine,thanks.


 

 That really is a sexy looking setup. I bet those sr-x mk3s really sounds excellent with that set up. I'm been thinking about moving my stax rig to my vintage set up as well.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Today I was fortunate to insert a new Bel Canto 1.5 blackface DAC into the lineup.
> 
> Using the great Sansui AU 20000 as a preamp for the Pioneer M 22 driving a 1975 Stax SR-X MK3.
> 
> Bel Canto is fed via spdif,old meets new seems to work and sounds just fine,thanks.


 
  What amp is that?


----------



## 5aces

1979 Pioneer M 22 amplifier.

Twin mono block design,left and right channels on one chassis and a tube crusher at that.

Drives all the Ohms and sounds good doing it.

Still listening to the sweet girl,the better the source the finer the music,so true...

Prior shots in the thread here:http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/960


----------



## scottiebabie

damn 5aces that M22 sure is sweet! its one of the few pioneers i truly drool over. too bad this & M25 hardly come up for sale & esp not in the condition yours is in. tats one fine amp! mikey likey....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





5aces said:


> 1979 Pioneer M 22 amplifier.
> 
> Twin mono block design,left and right channels on one chassis and a tube crusher at that.
> 
> ...


 


  That amp is a beauty.


----------



## WarriorAnt

So I'm reading up on the general cleaning of the circuit boards and I come across the suggestion of cleaning a dirty volume control that is sealed.  The author has drilled 2 small holes to introduce Deoxit into the volume pot,  Anyone ever do this themselves?


----------



## sluker

Score!!
  Help!
  Now I need to decide which one to keep (SX1250, AU 717, Toshiba 7100). Or else come up with a reason to keep all three (for the wife). I think I got a good deal on this one, $300 from the original owner and an hour drive to pick it up.
  Listening to speakers right now, and my B&W CM1's have never sounded this good.


----------



## TruBrew

$300 for the SX-1250? sounds like an awesome deal. I bought a SX-950 on eBay for $250 after shipping. I will trade you for the 950. You can tell the wife it is smaller, therefore no big deal to keep around. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously though, let us all know how they sound with the LCD-2. I thought about picking up a AU-717 off eBay as well but resisted the temptation. That an a Fisher 500C. I must admit, the reason I don't have that one is less resistance and more the fact that I was at work when the auction ended.
   
  My SX-950 will be back from the shop tomorrow, maybe I can snap some pics of it soon.


----------



## Skylab

No doubt, in good condition $300 for an SX-1250 is a major score.  Nice work!
   
  Oh, and I don't know anything about the Toshiba, but for sure you have to keep both the Pioneer and the Sansui


----------



## scottiebabie

wow sluker .... major congrats! your 1250 isnt a score, its a STEAL! u picked it up for basically (at the very least) 50% of current 'market' value. cant do no better than that these days. glad youre enjoying it.
   
  personally i'd keep the 1250 & the 717 but then again, waddaikno as i've not heard the toshiba. goodluck either way.


----------



## blur510

I say keep the toshiba nad sansui and sell me that crappy sx 1250 for $10..  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.. but seriously you got youseld a bargain.. I have been on the lookout for a Pioneer SX1250 for about 2 weeks now, nothing I found comes remotely close to what you got your for!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone here doing their own restorations?  
   
  Also are there any vintage receivers with tubes inside?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Man this bug won't stop biting me. 
   
  I just got off the phone with a local guy who has been collecting gear since 1967 and now he;s selling off his stuff.  Much of it he says he has had refurbished.   A Kenwood 9G, Pioneer SX650 to name a few.  He has reel to reels, turntables,2 sets Advent speakers, one bookshelf one floor,  DahlQuist DQ 10-s pretty much everything he's ever owned he's selling. 
   
  He's also selling a cache of tubes that I believe may be a few decades old and hasn't used in decades since he got rid of his tube gear way back when because he got tires of the love.  I wish I knew about tubes. What should I look for? Maybe I should buy his entire stash and take a chance.
   
  I'm heading to his place on Wednesday.


----------



## blur510

sweet, hope you strike gold!  
   
  Me personally I think my vintage itch is going to be limited to receivers and old amps (tube and SS).  I am quite happy with digital as my source and I think I like newish speakers.  
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Man this bug won't stop biting me.
> 
> I just got off the phone with a local guy who has been collecting gear since 1967 and now he;s selling off his stuff.  Much of it he says he has had refurbished.  Like a 1967 Nikko 501 he had refurbished, A Kenwood 9G, Pioneer SX650 to name a few.  He has reel to reels, turntables,2 sets Advent speakers, one bookshelf one floor,  DahlQuist DQ 10-s pretty much everything he's ever owned he's selling.
> 
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> sweet, hope you strike gold!
> 
> Me personally I think my vintage itch is going to be limited to receivers and old amps (tube and SS).  I am quite happy with digital as my source and I think I like newish speakers.


 
  I'm interested more in the looks of the receivers than the sound, of course I want them to work but I won't really be using them in that way.  The Nikko has a great look from 1967. All the vintage stuff from the 70's has a great look but for me the Marantz stuff really does it for me.     If his Advents are in good shape I'm pretty sure I'll have to get a set.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Anyone here doing their own restorations?
> 
> Also are there any vintage receivers with tubes inside?


 

 I do my own restorations. Originally with 1920's to 1960's AM tube radios.
  A few years ago I got into restoring "more modern" AM/FM receivers.
  So far I've done a Marantz 2275, a Pioneer SX-1010, a Sansui 1000,
  and a 1972 Kenwood that I bought new back in my high school days.
   
  The Sansui Model 1000 I restored is a tube receiver from 1963.
  Some other "famous brand" high fidelity tube receivers from that era were made by
  companies such as Fisher, Scott, Kenwood, Pioneer, Harmon Kardon and Magnavox.


----------



## scottiebabie

the Sansui model 1000 is a dang fine super rare tube receiver. wish i could find one locally. livewire good for u!
   
  @WarriorAnt i'd def grab the Kennie 9G at the right price. if the 2sets of Advents happen to be the Large Advent Loudspeakers, i'd grab them BOTH IN A HURRY esp if the price is right. besides sound awesome, stacked & amped of a good vintage with decent power (the kennie 9G@80wpc mite qualify), they also produce prodigious rock concert dBs to shake the house!
   
  hell if u have the space, grab the Dalquists too


----------



## scompton

I broke down and spent the money on a AU-717.  It's supposed to arrive on Monday.


----------



## BmWr75

There is an AU-717 for sale in Bartertown forum on AudioKarma.org (not mine).  You have to be an AK subscriber to view this thread though.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=375155
   
  Here's the description:
   
  Amp is clean inside and out. faceplate is a 9 
 top case was just painted. I've had a TT and
 CD hooked up everything works good. Tuner
 section is good. Don't really what to sell but
 I NEED another pair of speakers. If anybody is 
 interested give me a call. Asking 300.00 OBO
 plus some shipping.


----------



## scompton

That made me look at AK.  Someone scored a Sansui AU-20000, TU-9900, Pioneer PL-55DX tt, Teac A-4300SX reel to reel, Pioneer CT-F9191 tapedeck and two sets of Tempest Lab Series 1 with ribbon tweeters for $175 on CL.


----------



## mralexosborn

Pioneer SX-880 in my area for $125. Is it worth it?
  ...and an SX-636 for $50.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> There is an AU-717 for sale in Bartertown forum on AudioKarma.org (not mine).  You have to be an AK subscriber to view this thread though.
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=375155
> 
> ...


 


  heyyy nevermind the amp, thats a realistic mach one - my partee animal of choice! i remembered how those speaker rock so hard, they rattle windows & walls! & didnt need much wattage to do it either. i'd get one if i had the room for it. niceeeee!

  
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> That made me look at AK.  Someone scored a Sansui AU-20000, TU-9900, Pioneer PL-55DX tt, Teac A-4300SX reel to reel, Pioneer CT-F9191 tapedeck and two sets of Tempest Lab Series 1 with ribbon tweeters for $175 on CL.


 

 wow thats not a score, its highway robbery is what it is! the AU2k is worth $1k (& then some) by its lonesome! why cant i run across such deal???
   


  Quote: 





mralexosborn said:


> Pioneer SX-880 in my area for $125. Is it worth it?
> ...and an SX-636 for $50.


 

 not overpriced by any means but i'd wait & go for either a SX750 or better yet, a SX950 if best sonics is the objective. some say that either sounds better than the much bigger badder TOTL 1x80/1x50! YMMV ofcos


----------



## Meewoo

Hello, Scottie, are you enjoying your K702 better now? I actually found a good vintage SS receiver match the q701 very well. It tames the high of AKG and smooths all frequency pretty well in the same time keep the detail and sound stage of Q701. Only problem is that bass a little booming, not tight as Sui and Pioneer. The receiver is Nikko 8085.
   
  I have a quick question to ask. Are the integrate amp better than the corresponding receiver? I saw on flea-bay, a Yamaha cr-2020 ended at $380, but a Yammy CA-2020 ended at $720. Or it's just the rarity drove the price. Thanks!


----------



## ardgedee

meewoo said:


> I have a quick question to ask. Are the integrate amp better than the corresponding receiver? I saw on flea-bay, a Yamaha cr-2020 ended at $380, but a Yammy CA-2020 ended at $720. Or it's just the rarity drove the price. Thanks!


Depends on the models you're comparing. The NAD 7020 is the classic 3020 integrated with a radio on top. The HK505 is the HK670 without a radio. In both cases the receiver versions sell for significantly less than the integrated versions (eg, the HK670 seems to go for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the HK505, and even on eBay the NAD 7020 had been trading hands for well under us$100), so they're good ways to get more for your audiophile dollar.

I'm sure there must be examples from other manfs as well -- once you're committed to building a production line around a multiple-board device like a receiver, the temptation must be awfully strong to sell the same thing to people who don't want an integrated tuner. But that doesn't mean other details aren't altered to compensate: smaller power supply, for example. Or bigger.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> sweet, hope you strike gold!
> 
> Me personally I think my vintage itch is going to be limited to receivers and old amps (tube and SS).  I am quite happy with digital as my source and I think I like newish speakers.


 
   
  yeah, I thought that too about speakers...but then I bought a pair of Pioneer HPM-100's:
   

   
  And while they for sure are not my B&W N800's, they sound really, really good.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone familiar with a Nikko 501?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Depends on the models you're comparing. The NAD 7020 is the classic 3020 integrated with a radio on top. The HK505 is the HK670 without a radio. In both cases the receiver versions sell for significantly less than the integrated versions (eg, the HK670 seems to go for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of the HK505, and even on eBay the NAD 7020 had been trading hands for well under us$100), so they're good ways to get more for your audiophile dollar.
> 
> I'm sure there must be examples from other manfs as well -- once you're committed to building a production line around a multiple-board device like a receiver, the temptation must be awfully strong to sell the same thing to people who don't want an integrated tuner. But that doesn't mean other details aren't altered to compensate: smaller power supply, for example. Or bigger.


 

 So from the technical perspective, the THD difference between integrate amp and corresponding receiver is not obvious for most people? I found the integrate amp usually has lower THD than corresponding receiver. Thanks for your kind answer!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> yeah, I thought that too about speakers...but then I bought a pair of Pioneer HPM-100's:
> 
> 
> 
> And while they for sure are not my B&W N800's, they sound really, really good.


 
  Skylab I've been thinking about those Advent speakers you got at the Goodwill.
   
  Tomorrow I go to this guys house to look at his bookshelf Advents and his floor standing Advents.  His collection of decades old tubes, his large collection of vintage receivers, his large collection of vintage turntables, tape decks, even a tube reel to reel.   MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON MY SOUL!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> yeah, I thought that too about speakers...but then I bought a pair of Pioneer HPM-100's:
> 
> 
> And while they for sure are not my B&W N800's, they sound really, really good.


 

 It seems everyone on AK regards HPM-100 is THE pioneer speaker to pursue. Your pair are truly mint, but does your room have enough space to let the speakers breathe (I only see those wonderful vintage stuff)?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Tomorrow I go to this guys house to look at his bookshelf Advents and his floor standing Advents.  His collection of decades old tubes, his large collection of vintage receivers, his large collection of vintage turntables, tape decks, even a tube reel to reel.   MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON MY SOUL!


 


  But not all vintage stuff are good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I think eventually you soul will be at peace!! I mean everyone itches when bit by bugs, but will be at ease when time flows.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Hello, Scottie, are you enjoying your K702 better now? I actually found a good vintage SS receiver match the q701 very well. It tames the high of AKG and smooths all frequency pretty well in the same time keep the detail and sound stage of Q701. Only problem is that bass a little booming, not tight as Sui and Pioneer. The receiver is Nikko 8085.
> 
> I have a quick question to ask. Are the integrate amp better than the corresponding receiver? I saw on flea-bay, a Yamaha cr-2020 ended at $380, but a Yammy CA-2020 ended at $720. Or it's just the rarity drove the price. Thanks!


 

 the K702s been on a high energy stress 'cookin' diet since & for sure, its gone thru a few iterations. this past few days, i do believe its SQs matured to a constant that i can give a verdict. in short, i really really am liking these K702s. stock cable & off the AU-517 with a notch (+2dB) of bass boost, these cans are anything but lean & the upper mid shrillness has now mellowed to a slight tilt that gives the occasional high pitch vocals a bit of a gnaw instead of a bite.
   
  bass is remarkably deep, textured & quick whilst the highs have scrub off its initial grainy harshness. only gripes are the mid-upper bass/low mids are still slightly lean for my taste & i could do with a bit more treble refinement. but as is, its a very enjoyable headphone & provides a good contrast to my HD650 whilst still being eminently musical & fun. infact im finding the K702 as now, sharing quite a few traits with the HE5LE orthos. these are keepers & the only headscratching im doing is whether to diy a mini xlr cable (using cryo mogami) or go the full distance with a direct to drivers dual entry.
   
  as far as receivers & its corresponding integrated cousins, more times than not, i find the integrateds are more refined & cleaner sounding (however slight). dont really know but maybe its cos the integrated (& for sure the full separates) brethens have a better & beefier power supply &or perhaps its better regulated - truths more likely than not a bit of both IMO. which is why i finally settled on the Pioneer SA7500 & Sansui AU517 headfi combo (both of which surprise surprise, integrateds) as sounding best to my ears atleast incomparo to its receiver counterparts. YMMV as usual.
   
  glad u discover another K701/2 friendly amp in the nikko. its one of those brands that flies under the radar & hence easier to land the 'score' - i hope. heh
   
  O as far as the yami CR & CA goes, the CA8x0s & up have an optional internal switch that lets the amp sing in full class A mode - albeit as a much lesser wattage output. for what its worth, the CR receivers dont have this option no matter the model.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> But not all vintage stuff are good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I need some sort of cream for the itch!   
   
  How many people prefer the gear for the looks and how many people buy the gear for the sound?   I'm into the looks right now with the sound secondary.


----------



## AuralRelations

Is there an Audiophiles Anonymous? I think I'm ready to join. Here's my newest edition. Sounds OK with my SX-850 but VERY light on bass. Even lighter on bass than the K702! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  DCM Time Frame TF-500. For $40, I couldn't resist.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


meewoo said:


> So from the technical perspective, the THD difference between integrate amp and corresponding receiver is not obvious for most people? I found the integrate amp usually has lower THD than corresponding receiver. Thanks for your kind answer!!


 

 I forget the exact number, but there's a threshold below which THD isn't a meaningful number -- to the extent that it's a meaningful number anyway (tubes fans, of course, can have strong opinions about its relevance...)
   
  I'll try to fill in some gaps regarding the Harmon/Kardons, since I have the HK 670 and have read up on the HK 505 in the course of things. One documented difference between the two (besides the obvious) is that the HK 505 has preamp out/amp in jacks, and that might be all. The power supplies might or might not be different, but Harmon/Kardon doesn't seem to have skimped on the PS in the receivers (it's got the biggest transformer of any of my amps!). Other than that they have the same preamp and amp circuits. Opinions on AudioKarma and some other vintage boards differ regarding audible differences between the two; some prefer the HK 505, some don't hear a difference.
   
  Since examples of either unit are pushing thirty years old now, we might have to concede that the effects of age and wear are in play, and variances between the HK 505 and HK 670 might be as significant as variances between different units of the same model. Refurbishing can bring them back to numeric spec through fixes and adjustments, but once we're swapping in parts to replace worn-out ones, the amps are going to drift a little from their original factory sound simply because the parts being put in aren't from the same lots as the parts the amps were built with. At this point we're splitting fine hairs, however.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


auralrelations said:


> DCM Time Frame TF-500. For $40, I couldn't resist.


 

 Nice!
   
  I've been eyeing a pair of DCMs at a local shop for a couple years now; if I had room to use floor-standing speakers, these would severely tempt me.
   
  Of course, if I had the opportunity to get a pair of DQ-10 for dirt-cheap, _I'd make room for them_. So there's that.


----------



## mythless

Oh my, this thread has sparked a tiny Audio Vintage Revolution, haha, more competition!  Jokingly: you guys better not head up North, that's my hunting grounds! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, I am envious on some of the deals I hear from you guys in the USA.  Wish I was that lucky on some of the prices I hear/read.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Nice!
> 
> ...


 
  The original DCM Time Windows which sadly I gave away were the best speakers DCM ever made and if I find a pair again for reasonable money I will rebuy them. I owned them for over 25 years and they were outstanding. I paid 600.00 for them in 1979


----------



## sluker

[size=10.0pt]Location and demographics are a huge factor in finding good deals and good condition units. I think for those that live in the Los Angeles area we have a great opportunity due to the aging demographic in places like Pasadena, Santa Monica and Palos Verdes (yo name a few). There are people here who specialize in "raiding" estate sales for electronics. You find these guys on CL and they typically have 5 to 10 items listed at any one time. If you get to know them and let them know what you are looking for, just be patient and it will come up soon. [/size]
[size=10.0pt]The guy I bought my Toshiba SA-7100 from ($100) had a room packed full of vintage gear and said he mostly sells stuff to Taiwan and HK because they pay top dollar for it. But as recently as three weeks ago he sold a Pioneer SX-1980 in the original box with the manual for $700 (which he paid $100 for).[/size]
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> Oh my, this thread has sparked a tiny Audio Vintage Revolution, haha, more competition!  Jokingly: you guys better not head up North, that's my hunting grounds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## mythless

I completely agree, I've had my share of decent deals but not as good as the stuff I heard in the USA.  I do have quite the "collection" of items and I have gone through quite of few amplifiers and turntables but, again nothing like what I read over on AK.  My best deal as of yet was a pair of Bose 901 IV with EQ and stands, Bose Spatial Receiver Console and Technics SL-1600mk2 w/V15 VMR broken stylus for $150 and probably (well in terms of speakers) my highest end gear, haha.  Most of the time I usually pay fair price since I tend to deal with people that I know, like my Onkyo Model 20 speakers.
  
  Quote: 





sluker said:


> [size=10pt]Location and demographics are a huge factor in finding good deals and good condition units. I think for those that live in the Los Angeles area we have a great opportunity due to the aging demographic in places like Pasadena, Santa Monica and Palos Verdes (yo name a few). There are people here who specialize in "raiding" estate sales for electronics. You find these guys on CL and they typically have 5 to 10 items listed at any one time. If you get to know them and let them know what you are looking for, just be patient and it will come up soon. [/size]
> [size=10pt]The guy I bought my Toshiba SA-7100 from ($100) had a room packed full of vintage gear and said he mostly sells stuff to Taiwan and HK because they pay top dollar for it. But as recently as three weeks ago he sold a Pioneer SX-1980 in the original box with the manual for $700 (which he paid $100 for).[/size]


----------



## scottiebabie

dont forget that the great white north has only 1/10 the population of the States & hence by deduction, we only have 1/10 (if that) the amount of gear changing hands. plus the fact that alot of these vintage higher end stuff are military "issues" made available at good discounts to the men in uniform by various mfgrs. again we up north dont get these 'deals'.
   
  lets face it, even now we canucks pay more for most anything compare to u yanks. suxs the big one fo sho!


----------



## sluker

Yes, but you have your health
  Care


----------



## scottiebabie

ya but u have guns - big smal long short auto semi auto assualt anti personnel anti armor ...... - u yanks have it all! takes forever for us to even get a lic for a hunting rifle 
   
  on another subject, @auralrelations, those TF500s are in very fine condition. it was my very 1st "audiophile" speakers i bought with my 1st paycheck donkey years ago. frank's rite with not much bass but mids were sweet from what i could remember.


----------



## BmWr75

Here's my new to me vintage Fisher X-101C tube integrated.  Picked it up today. Am not sure if the cabinet is an original Fisher. The seller said he had been told it might be for a Scott. Regardless, the leatherette cabinet fits it very well. It's got a duke's mixture of power tubes installed: one Sylvania, one Dumond, and two RCAs. Haven't pulled it out of the cabinet yet to see what the 12AX7s are. The mode and volume knobs are from a later model Fisher, but I have the two original knobs, one of which is missing the brass colored cover. Will find that on eBay I guess. Has already been gone over by the local Pittsburgh tube guru technician, so should be ready to play for a while to come.


----------



## sluker

Congrats, that looks gorgeous.
  I thought I was done, but now I think I want a vintage tube amp. I will have to start researching.
  If the mid to late 70's were the "golden age" for SS integrated, what is the "golden age" for tube amps/receivers?


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Congrats, that looks gorgeous.
> I thought I was done, but now I think I want a vintage tube amp. I will have to start researching.
> If the mid to late 70's were the "golden age" for SS integrated, what is the "golden age" for tube amps/receivers?


 


 Late 50's to late 60's.


----------



## livewire

@ BmWr75 - Very nice and not often seen Fisher amp you have there!
   
  Have you tried it with headphones yet?


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> ya but u have guns - big smal long short auto semi auto assualt anti personnel anti armor ...... - u yanks have it all! takes forever for us to even get a lic for a hunting rifle
> 
> on another subject, @auralrelations, those TF500s are in very fine condition. it was my very 1st "audiophile" speakers i bought with my 1st paycheck donkey years ago. frank's rite with not much bass but mids were sweet from what i could remember.


 

 I did some research before buying them and it seemed like a good deal so I went for it. There's a dime sized hole on the "sock" for the left speaker but it's only noticeable up close. I really like the imaging and the mids/highs on them. I just wish bass went lower! The bass doesn't sound realistic enough on my Bill Evans recordings. I really hope that they're not broken but I wouldn't be surprised since they were only $40.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


bmwr75 said:


> Here's my new to me vintage Fisher X-101C tube integrated.  Picked it up today. Am not sure if the cabinet is an original Fisher. The seller said he had been told it might be for a Scott. Regardless, the leatherette cabinet fits it very well. It's got a duke's mixture of power tubes installed: one Sylvania, one Dumond, and two RCAs. Haven't pulled it out of the cabinet yet to see what the 12AX7s are. The mode and volume knobs are from a later model Fisher, but I have the two original knobs, one of which is missing the brass colored cover. Will find that on eBay I guess. Has already been gone over by the local Pittsburgh tube guru technician, so should be ready to play for a while to come.


 

  
  Beautiful, man. Welcome to Team Fisher!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> O as far as the yami CR & CA goes, the CA8x0s & up have an optional internal switch that lets the amp sing in full class A mode - albeit as a much lesser wattage output. for what its worth, the CR receivers dont have this option no matter the model.


 

 @Scottie
  I"m glad that you enjoy AKG with AU-517!! Yes, I also turn the bass a little +2db, and sometimes also low treble -2db.
   
  Wow, I don't know Yammy CA8x0 & up have this feature. I should keep my eyes on a Yammy CA in the future!  Thanks!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





livewire said:


> @ BmWr75 - Very nice and not often seen Fisher amp you have there!
> 
> Have you tried it with headphones yet?


 

 Just tried it with some Beyer DT-880 660 ohm cans.  It sounds very nice.  Maybe a little tizzy on the top end.  Need to see what 12AX7s are installed.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


warriorant said:


> How many people prefer the gear for the looks and how many people buy the gear for the sound?   I'm into the looks right now with the sound secondary.


 

 I missed this question earlier. I think it's a good'un.
   
  I'm buying stuff for the sound. At least, I'd like to think so.
   
  My decades-old amplifiers have soundly trounced all my dedicated headphone amps. There is room along the margins for quibbling: Sound can be analyzed and quantified objectively, but "good" is purely in the ears of the beholder. Certainly my Violectric amp is not shambolic at all. It's also some wee fraction of the size of any of my receivers, and it delivers all the power any of my headphones need (aside from the very needy HE-6). It also costs some multiple of the market price for all but the really monstrous integrateds and receivers - you could buy a couple AU-717s on Ebay for the price of a single HPA-100. That's kind of unfair, of course; The HPA-100 is currently in manufacture and its price is set at what Violectric can (presumably) reasonably charge, while our elderly receivers and integrateds are all heavily devalued from their original retail prices; much of the kit we're discussing here cost a thousand or more dollars when new, adjusted for 2011 currency, so as much as we moan about inflation in the current price of primo Pioneer receivers, we're really complaining about the SX-1280 being driven up from 1/10 of its original price to, oh, 1/4 or so.
   
  For me, the HE-6 throws the equation cockeyed, though. If I had some other flagship phone, like the LCD-2, HD800, T1, I probably would have stopped with the Violectric and been happy.
   
  The HE-6 is rarely happy with any headphone jack, to the extent that headphone amp designers have been rushing back to the drawing board (circuit design applications, anyway) to come up with anything compatible. On the other hand, we've already got all these receivers lying around in basements, garages, storage closets, and so on... as a happy side effect, we're discovering that they keep up pretty well with modern equipment on other tasks in addition to powering headphones.
   
  Back to the question of looks or sound. I think my Heathkit AR-1500 looks kind of comical - see earlier notes on that. If it wasn't for my memories of the thing as a child, I'd give it a pass, because stylistically it doesn't evoke any genre of high-end gear. Possibly some obscure McIntosh tuner, if unplugged and viewed in really, really dim light. But I also think it sounds great. On the other side, the HK receiver is almost too big, a massive aluminum and glass monster charged with electricity.  When I'm working at home it's perched on a filing cabinet inches from my left shoulder and somewhat intimidating. Its scale would be more attractive if it was planted safely somewhere across the room.


----------



## scompton

Mostly sound for me.  I don't think anyone would buy a Realistic STA-2200 for its looks.  I did buy the Optonica for it's looks and it also happens to be my least favorite sounding amp.


----------



## Maverickmonk

I might be picking up a JVC turntable and a broken Yamaha Cr 220 to play with this weekend. I'm pumped for cheap project amp!
   
  edit: I'm excited over a peice of broken electronics...this is a bad sign. I'm going to end up as doomed as the rest of you!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> I missed this question earlier. I think it's a good'un.
> 
> ...


 

 Well the question is all mute now!  Iv'e brushed off the bug, thrown it on the ground and stomped it dead!  I'm giving away my newly acquired Yamaha CR 820, keeping the Marantz 2215b I stole for $5 replacing a light in it and not looking back.  I decided NOT to go to that house today with the scores of vintage gear from 67 receivers, speakers, turntables, tubes reel to reels, and what not.  I knew if I did I'd never return, my bank account would further diminish and I'd truly become a vintage junky.  This stuff is way too beautiful and way too hard to resist. I know it will simply consume me if I go down the path.  Now I just have to get that bug off my shoe...


----------



## blur510

give the yamaha to me??
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well the question is all mute now!  Iv'e brushed off the bug, thrown it on the ground and stomped it dead!  I'm giving away my newly acquired Yamaha CR 820, keeping the Marantz 2215b I stole for $5 replacing a light in it and not looking back.  I decided NOT to go to that house today with the scores of vintage gear from 67 receivers, speakers, turntables, tubes reel to reels, and what not.  I knew if I did I'd never return, my bank account would further diminish and I'd truly become a vintage junky.  This stuff is way too beautiful and way too hard to resist. I know it will simply consume me if I go down the path.  Now I just have to get that bug off my shoe...


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well the question is all mute now!  Iv'e brushed off the bug, thrown it on the ground and stomped it dead!  I'm giving away my newly acquired Yamaha CR 820, keeping the Marantz 2215b I stole for $5 replacing a light in it and not looking back.  I decided NOT to go to that house today with the scores of vintage gear from 67 receivers, speakers, turntables, tubes reel to reels, and what not.  I knew if I did I'd never return, my bank account would further diminish and I'd truly become a vintage junky.  This stuff is way too beautiful and way too hard to resist. I know it will simply consume me if I go down the path.  Now I just have to get that bug off my shoe...


 

 Personally, I'd keep the Yamaha and sell the Marantz.  Secondly, you'll never get the bug off your shoes, once you're hooked it's hard to get it off, haha.  Do you still check craigslist while you check your emails?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Personally, I'd keep the Yamaha and sell the Marantz.  Secondly, you'll never get the bug off your shoes, once you're hooked it's hard to get it off, haha.  Do you still check craigslist while you check your emails?


 
  Craigs list, eBay, local eBay, oodle.com, all the local markets that fuel an OCD's yearning. I've got to get rid of both the Yamaha and the Marantz.  Could be a fast and furious trip to the Goodwill...and then a stop for a new pair of shoes...


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Craigs list, eBay, local eBay, oodle.com, all the local markets that fuel an OCD's yearning. I've got to get rid of both the Yamaha and the Marantz.  Could be a fast and furious trip to the Goodwill...and then a stop for a new pair of shoes...


 

 Hah, once you step into the Goodwill and you see something you like, you might come out with 3 items 
   
  Keep the Yammie as a bedside unit


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Hah, once you step into the Goodwill and you see something you like, you might come out with 3 items
> 
> Keep the Yammie as a bedside unit


 

 If that happens I'll take it as a sign to go all out collecting because I've been to 6 different Goodwill in the last two weeks and all I did was come out sneezing!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


warriorant said:


> Craigs list, eBay, local eBay, oodle.com, all the local markets that fuel an OCD's yearning. I've got to get rid of both the Yamaha and the Marantz.  Could be a fast and furious trip to the Goodwill...and then a stop for a new pair of shoes...


 

 Have you seen the vintage thread on Shoe-Fi? Some really amazing finds going on in Goodwill stores...


----------



## blur510

Anyone familiar with Realistic STA- 2100? It's supposed to be made by foster (fostex)


----------



## ornitorrinco

Hi, need some advice from experienced users.
  Do you think a very good 70's receiver or integrated amp is capable of matching or besting a $500-$1,000 desktop headphone amp such as Violectric V200, driving Audeze LCD2 headphones?
  Those VU meters drive me crazy, but ultimately I will choose performance over looks....
  Thanks!


----------



## blur510

I have only used a gilmore lite with DPS on my LCD2 and a kenwood kr 720 and a sansui G-7000. The kenwood worked awesome with the he5-le but not as good on the LCD2.  The Sansui worked awesome with the LCD2 better than the gilmore lite. 
  
  Quote: 





ornitorrinco said:


> Hi, need some advice from experienced users.
> Do you think a very good 70's receiver or integrated amp is capable of matching or besting a $500-$1,000 desktop headphone amp such as Violectric V200, driving Audeze LCD2 headphones?
> Those VU meters drive me crazy, but ultimately I will choose performance over looks....
> Thanks!


----------



## sluker

I still prefer my LCD's with my LF339 over the SX-1250 or the Sansui AU-717. But the HE5-LE's really like my vintage gear.


----------



## ornitorrinco

Thanks for your help, sluker and blur510.
  Is there a particular brand or model of vintage receivers/int.amps that is known to work best with headphones?


----------



## publicholiday

what u guys think about sansui au 101? worth to grab?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Have you seen the vintage thread on Shoe-Fi? Some really amazing finds going on in Goodwill stores...


 

 I have lived in many parts of the country and I would have to rate the Goodwill here where I am as the worst I've ever seen. A 1 on a scale of 10.


----------



## Skylab

Can't be any worse than mine.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> what u guys think about sansui au 101? worth to grab?


 

 Sure if it works and the price is right, entry level amp IIRC
   


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have lived in many parts of the country and I would have to rate the Goodwill here where I am as the worst I've ever seen. A 1 on a scale of 10.


 

 Nah, I have it worse, never find anything up here.


----------



## TruBrew

I want to hook up some speakers to my SX-950, but I am not sure if there is a better way then bare cable. It only has the clamp style speaker terminals. All of the speaker cable I have hanging around is either terminated with spades or bananas. Obviously I can cut the ends off, but I wasn't sure if cable oxidation is a problem. There may be some very skinny banana plug style thing I can use. Or I could try and tin the ends, though I have never done that before. I am just looking to get a consensus as to the best method.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I want to hook up some speakers to my SX-950, but I am not sure if there is a better way then bare cable. It only has the clamp style speaker terminals. All of the speaker cable I have hanging around is either terminated with spades or bananas. Obviously I can cut the ends off, but I wasn't sure if cable oxidation is a problem. There may be some very skinny banana plug style thing I can use. Or I could try and tin the ends, though I have never done that before. I am just looking to get a consensus as to the best method.


 
  If you're worried about oxidation, you could always just tin regular speaker wire with some solder. Haven't had a problem with tined or bare wires.


----------



## sluker

I use these.


----------



## 5aces

From my 1980 JBL L112 Instruction Manual bare wire is O.K.




Look for "Speaker Wire Pin Connectors" plenty out there,eBay etc.

I use the angled pin connectors and 16 gauge speaker wire,under $1.00/foot.


----------



## TruBrew

thanks a bunch, I will look around for some of those.


----------



## Meewoo

Where did you guys get the pin type plug. Amazon and monoprice are selling over $1/foot, and they are big pins, not small pins that can fit into all vintage receiver or amp.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





dukja said:


> Some vintage amp has huge cylinder protruding on top of the case.  The manual said that they are electrolytic capacitors.  Are those capacitors of that size still available?  Or they are huge just because of old technology, so we can replace them with much smaller but similar rating ones?  My concern was the possibility of find replacement parts.


 

 Those are the receivers that are best, i love the amps like the 1250 and the $8,000 Sansui's that have the huge air vent that takes up half of the amp and you can see the huge capacitors.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> Anyone familiar with Realistic STA- 2100? It's supposed to be made by foster (fostex)


 

 The STA series of amplifiers are very underrated, they are powerful, well built and can be had cheap because it struts the name Realistic on them.  However, lately prices of Realistic items have gone up.  There were 2 version, the STA-2100 and STA-2100D, the D meant it was the newer version and does not have the toroidal transformer, while the STA-2100 does.  Great receiver if you can get your hands on one.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mythless said:


> The STA series of amplifiers are very underrated, they are powerful, well built and can be had cheap because it struts the name Realistic on them.  However, lately prices of Realistic items have gone up.  There were 2 version, the STA-2100 and STA-2100D, the D meant it was the newer version and does not have the toroidal transformer, while the STA-2100 does.  Great receiver if you can get your hands on one.


 



 I just want to point out that STA-2100 was well built, but the sound signature is not good as well regarded Marantz, Sui, Pioneer, Yammy, Luxman, Rotel and Kenwood. It still has warm sound, but you will fell little flat, lifeless. My 80's NAD 7240pe has much sweet sound than Realistic. I have Sanyo and Technics at hand. And I will rate STA-2100 a little below Sanyo and Technics which are below those big name above. Well, if you use 2100 to drive speakers, that's another story. All my observation is based on my AKG Q-701.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> Where did you guys get the pin type plug. Amazon and monoprice are selling over $1/foot, and they are big pins, not small pins that can fit into all vintage receiver or amp.




http://axiomaudio.com/bulkcable.html
Up here I use this speaker cable,*12 *gauge all copper* .93 cents/foot*
Found a 50' spool of 16 gauge Monster XPHP (I know...) on clearance so I picked it up,it fits good.
The angled pin connectors were up here at Future Shop,clearance too(same as BestBuy).
They fit the vintage gear just fine.12 gauge wire is too big to fit bare on some vintage amps/receivers.
Search on eBay for the pins if you don't mind ordering online or even RadioShack if you're stuck out there somewheres.


----------



## WarriorAnt

How much do you thinks these will finally go for?  No matter how vintage I wouldn't pay this or anything near this, although the pair does look like they are in excellent condition.
   
   
  http://phoenix.ebayclassifieds.com/electronics/phoenix/pioneer-cs-99a-vintage-speakers-collectible-fb-cones-nice/?ad=10839860


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> http://axiomaudio.com/bulkcable.html
> Up here I use this speaker cable,*12 *gauge all copper* .93 cents/foot*
> Found a 50' spool of 16 gauge Monster XPHP (I know...) on clearance so I picked it up,it fits good.
> The angled pin connectors were up here at Future Shop,clearance too(same as BestBuy).
> ...


 
  Oh, sorry, I want to buy the plug (connector), not wire. I just wan to buy the thin pin type, bare wire is fine, but not convenient as plug. Especially when you have many receivers to enjoy. I checked Bestbuy and Radio Shack, they have big thick pin from the infamous M. But they don't carry small (thin) pin plug.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How much do you thinks these will finally go for?  No matter how vintage I wouldn't pay this or anything near this, although the pair does look like they are in excellent condition.
> 
> 
> http://phoenix.ebayclassifieds.com/electronics/phoenix/pioneer-cs-99a-vintage-speakers-collectible-fb-cones-nice/?ad=10839860


 


  Do some research on AK, they have enormous info about Pioneer speakers. CS-99a is for rock, you will want one as Skylab HPM-100. I found one pair CS-99a around me for $150, but not as minty as the one in your link.


----------



## ardgedee

trubrew said:


> ... All of the speaker cable I have hanging around is either terminated with spades or bananas. Obviously I can cut the ends off, but I wasn't sure if cable oxidation is a problem. There may be some very skinny banana plug style thing I can use. Or I could try and tin the ends, though I have never done that before. I am just looking to get a consensus as to the best method.


If you're swapping out one amp for another with long-term intentions, you may as well cut the cable. But if your plan is to experiment with a variety of amps, don't cut anything - use an adaptor instead. Get a set of skinny tipped speaker plugs like these, from Monoprice. The female end securely holds a banana plug. I bought a set for doing exactly this. They work.

So to use your banana plug-tipped speaker cables: To plug into amps with banana sockets or multi-way terminals, use the banana plugs. To plug into amps with spring-clip speaker terminals, plug the banana plugs into the plugs linked above and use those. Note the adaptors are bare metal, so you'll have to wrap in tape or heat-shrink to keep them from shorting if they shift and knock into each other.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> If you're swapping out one amp for another with long-term intentions, you may as well cut the cable. But if your plan is to experiment with a variety of amps, don't cut anything - use an adaptor instead. Get a set of skinny tipped speaker plugs like these, from Monoprice. The female end securely holds a banana plug. I bought a set for doing exactly this. They work.
> 
> So to use your banana plug-tipped speaker cables: To plug into amps with banana sockets or multi-way terminals, use the banana plugs. To plug into amps with spring-clip speaker terminals, plug the banana plugs into the plugs linked above and use those. Note the adaptors are bare metal, so you'll have to wrap in tape or heat-shrink to keep them from shorting if they shift and knock into each other.


 

 Could this pin and female banana plugs fit into Pioneer and Sui? I thought they were a little thick. Also, do you need to buy rubber band to cover up the metal part? Sometime I found banana plugs are too close to short the system. And I think vintage receiver and amp have more close speaker port, so using this pin to banana convertor may cause problem. Thanks!!


----------



## scottiebabie

sonically wise, best to use just bare wire esp for the spring clips. better yet, just tin the wire ends & plug it in. an extra layer of connection with pins/bananas/spades certainly wont help with better sound plus bare wire's free. sounds like a win-win to me.
   
  problem wot problem?! LOL


----------



## ardgedee

The pins should fit and the barrels (the thick parts) will probably touch each other. That's not a problem as long as the barrels are not bare metal, which means wrapping them in electrical tape or heat shrink. A rubber band might do but I wouldn't rely on it: it might slip and over a few months the rubber will eventually lose elasticity and slip off. 

I'll provide a picture tomorrow. It might help clear things up.


----------



## 5aces

You are correct to be concerned with a non insulated pin connector.

Here are the notorious 'M' angled pin connectors with 16 gauge speaker wire on the rear of a Sansui amplifier.

Obviously,straight pins would not work well in this application and it is preferable to have the insulation,no matter how tight the clamp/screw the wires will move when repositioning the amp.

These pins allow you to use a heavier gauge wire that would otherwise not fit into the terminal hole.

On the Marantz 2285 receiver,the straight pins would work as it has straight out clamp style speaker terminals but I still use insulated angled pins.

I move gear around a lot and prefer not to always be twisting/tinning speaker leads.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> sonically wise, best to use just bare wire esp for the spring clips. better yet, just tin the wire ends & plug it in. an extra layer of connection with pins/bananas/spades certainly wont help with better sound plus bare wire's free. sounds like a win-win to me.
> 
> problem wot problem?! LOL


 


  I know, but I don't have soldering tool and stuff. I really should stock these thing up for my vintage stuff.
   
  @5aces
  Where did you get these pin plugs? Thanks!


----------



## 5aces

Like I said,they are Monster angled pin connectors bought on clearance at Future Shop Canada.

Scooped all the packs they had at a good price along with that 50' roll of speaker wire,enough for the whole system!

I see them here:http://www.amazon.com/Twist-Crimp-Toolless-Speaker-Connectors/dp/B00104HKJE

or:
http://tinyurl.com/5r2tx7o

Be advised I would not use anything smaller than 16 gauge wire,14 would be preferable.

Won't take too much pull from heavier wire but I have not had any problems.

They are toolless and twist on tight _*counterclockwise.*_

Not the very best but the price and time was right so on they went,cheap and dirty.


----------



## blur510

where did you get those banana plugs? I need to get a set for my speakers.
 nvm found it at crutchfield


----------



## shipsupt

Looking to possibly scoop something quick with no time for proper research... So I'm posting hoping for a quick reply... Marantz 4300? Any thoughts? Price range if it's as mint as quoted?
Thanks...


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I just want to point out that STA-2100 was well built, but the sound signature is not good as well regarded Marantz, Sui, Pioneer, Yammy, Luxman, Rotel and Kenwood. It still has warm sound, but you will fell little flat, lifeless. My 80's NAD 7240pe has much sweet sound than Realistic. I have Sanyo and Technics at hand. And I will rate STA-2100 a little below Sanyo and Technics which are below those big name above. Well, if you use 2100 to drive speakers, that's another story. All my observation is based on my AKG Q-701.


 

 That is very subjective.  I think the Realistic can run with the big boys with their sound signatures, it all depends on what you're looking for.  I can easily "point out" that HK has better tonal qualities than Rotel, Marantz, Sansui, Pioneer, etc...but then again just like anything else in this hobby, it all depends on what you like as an individual.  And yes, I've heard lots of Realistic amplifiers, just never owned anything other than speakers and turntables, they also make great EQs if you are on a tight budget.


----------



## blur510

anyone here with info on a mac4100?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mythless said:


> That is very subjective.  I think the Realistic can run with the big boys with their sound signatures, it all depends on what you're looking for.  I can easily "point out" that HK has better tonal qualities than Rotel, Marantz, Sansui, Pioneer, etc...but then again just like anything else in this hobby, it all depends on what you like as an individual.  And yes, I've heard lots of Realistic amplifiers, just never owned anything other than speakers and turntables, they also make great EQs if you are on a tight budget.


 


  Yes, I know that all subjective when we talk sound. I just tried to give my opinion about STA-2100. I was at a guy's house to pick up a vintage receiver. Man, that guy has all sorts of vintage stuff except Yammy and HK, He has Sui g-22000, Rotel RX-1603. I audited the STA-2100, the biggest fisher receiver (RS-1080?), Rotel rx-1203, a biggest Toshiba receiver (Toshiba SA-7150) and Setton RS-660 for one hour. I mainly listened to Norah Jones from a MD player line out and some hip-op radio stations.  At that time, I felt Realistic is flat, lifeless, not exciting. I was torn between Setton and Realistic since the guy asked half the price of Setton for Realistic (while I don't want to pay $400 for other big guys). I finally grabbed Setton and left Realistic there. Later, the guy sold Realistic out. This was the only Realistic I ever heard and STA-2100 I heard might sound different from other 2100 units.
   
  Well, as you said "it all depends on what you like as an individual". I have Pioneer SX-1250, SX-1050, but I like my SX-727 more than them. Although Pionny is very popular, myself can't label them as the same league as Luxman, Marantz, Yammy and Sui. Again, I will put Rotel into top tier even though it's not popular.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Like I said,they are Monster angled pin connectors bought on clearance at Future Shop Canada.


 


  Sorry,  I was confused. The beautiful bike in your avatar made me dazzle....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Thanks for all help!


----------



## scompton

The STA-2200 doesn't sound flat and lifeless.  I have no idea how it compares to the Pioneers since I've never heard one of those.


----------



## Skylab

It's important to remember that any individual sample of a vintage receiver can sound bad due to having sagging/bad caps, poorly set bias, etc etc. Hard to generalize about the sound of a piece based on one sample.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's important to remember that any individual sample of a vintage receiver can sound bad due to having sagging/bad caps, poorly set bias, etc etc. Hard to generalize about the sound of a piece based on one sample.


 

 Well said!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Next time I will add "IMHO, on my experience, might ect" to avoid confusion.


----------



## wualta

Quote:


scompton said:


> The STA-2200 doesn't sound flat and lifeless.


 
  Whew. For some unknown reason, that's good to hear.
   
  The Realistic (wotta name, right?) STA-2100 and STA-2200 are two extremely different beasts. The 2100, in its two flavors, is a classic glass-and-steel unreconstructedly-analog high-power receiver-- and downright controversial. I haven't heard it myself, but something about the sound polarizes people-- it's the receiver equivalent of the Pioneer HPM-100 speaker. You can read more than you'll ever want to know about it on AK. Fair warning.


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's important to remember that any individual sample of a vintage receiver can sound bad due to having sagging/bad caps, poorly set bias, etc etc. Hard to generalize about the sound of a piece based on one sample.


 
  Oh, this is so true, it's, like, *true. *Once something survives to the age of, say, an STA-2100, you have to evaluate on a case by case basis, as you would if these were cars from the same era.


----------



## Meewoo

Nikko 9095 TOTL in 1975?, only 65wpc, but around 40lbs. The warmest receiver I ever have. It's my first choice for Q701 since it tames the bright of AKG through all frequency. though the bass is not tight as my others, it's not boomy. I have another Nikko TRM-600, but it sounds totally different from 9095. TRM-600 sound bright and a little cold.
  I would say I waste $50 for TRM-600, I thought it would sound like 9095.


----------



## ardgedee

That's a handsome piece of gear, Meewoo. I love the wiring and mechanism behind the tuner pointer, too.
   
How's it sound? (*EDIT:* Oh. You said how it sounds. My bad for not reading well.)


----------



## wualta

One guy whose online posts you might be interested to read is Tom Ishimoto. He worked for Onkyo, then Nikko (around the time of the Alpha and Beta III) and for a time was Chief Engineer for Marantz.
   
  There. I got the chronology right, finally.


----------



## buddyboy1

Picked these off of the curb, I got it all for free. I got Yamaha ca-610 II amplifier, a ct-410 II tuner, and a pair of "the Advent Loudspeakers". I believe everything is from 1978 or close to it. I have not yet tested the amplifier or the tuner as I just snagged them today. But the speakers sound great, I just need to re-foam them as all the foam is dried up and flaked off. I figure even if  the amp doesn't work right off the bat, it should hopefully be an easy fix. Enough talk, here are some pictures...


----------



## RexAeterna

buddyboy1 said:


> Picked these off of the curb, I got it all for free. I got Yamaha ca-610 II amplifier, a ct-410 II tuner, and a pair of "the Advent Loudspeakers". I believe everything is from 1978 or close to it. I have not yet tested the amplifier or the tuner as I just snagged them today. But the speakers sound great, I just need to re-foam them as all the foam is dried up and flaked off. I figure even if  the amp doesn't work right off the bat, it should hopefully be an easy fix. Enough talk, here are some pictures...




nice find! but man, antec 900...i have that case. was great case when i got into gaming more and was working as a tech at a computer shop but after some years i realize what a dust magnet it is. i like simple sleek cases now like li-lian. antec 900 tho is a good case with lots of airflow. just not big fan of fancy lights anymore. bad enough loudest component in my 5870. plan on getting a cheap laptop for music storing and listening at night cause when it's late and quiet. first thing i notice when trying to listen to my speakers before bed is my computer's noise lol.


----------



## Skylab

That is a pretty amazing curb-side free score. Wow. nice!


----------



## TheWuss

you know what they say:  one man's trash...


----------



## RexAeterna

thewuss said:


> you know what they say:  one man's trash...




yup. i scored lot of things in the trash. best place is scope a rich neighborhood on trash day. i can't say how many good rear projection hdtv's and lcd's i found but i usually pass on them. had no luck with amps or speakers yet. most stuff i try to look for i never find but other things that are valuable i could care less.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> One guy whose online posts you might be interested to read is Tom Ishimoto. He worked for Nikko (around the time of the Alpha and Beta III) and for a time was Chief Engineer for Marantz, winding up at Onkyo.


 

 Yes, I read some piece info on AK. Do you know his AK name? Or could you direct me to his post. Thank!
   
  @Buddyboy1,
  Nice rescue!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think all members or guests of this thread will consider it's a sin to trash these kind of gems! Congrats and Enjoy!


----------



## Meewoo

It may be irrelevant here, but..
  Is anyone here has experience with Cambridge Audio Azur 840a especially with headphone? Thanks!!


----------



## buddyboy1

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> nice find! but man, antec 900...i have that case. was great case when i got into gaming more and was working as a tech at a computer shop but after some years i realize what a dust magnet it is. i like simple sleek cases now like li-lian. antec 900 tho is a good case with lots of airflow. just not big fan of fancy lights anymore. bad enough loudest component in my 5870. plan on getting a cheap laptop for music storing and listening at night cause when it's late and quiet. first thing i notice when trying to listen to my speakers before bed is my computer's noise lol.


 

 Haha thanks. I would have to agree the case can be loud, but if it is under the desk it really isn't a problem for me. I have put a lot of work into the 900, painting and cable management etc and I really love my case. I would ask to swap some computer pics, but this isn't the thread to do so, perhaps on the computer thread?
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is a pretty amazing curb-side free score. Wow. nice!


 

 Ya I am lucky too because about 10 seconds after I had the stuff loaded someone else who wanted them drove up. I felt kind of bad, but at least the women who was getting rid of the equipment was happy I took them off her hands.
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Nice rescue!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks! I was ecstatic all day once I heard the speakers. These are the first vintage....well, anything that I have owned and I can say that I was in awe by the sound quality of 33 year old speakers and equipment. I now know what all the fuss is about vintage equipment now, pretty cool stuff. It will be a lot of fun refurbishing and getting these guys into working order!


----------



## Maverickmonk

Nice Yammies! I've got a CR-220 receiver from the same lineup that I'm trying to repare. Excellent condition! Especially for free


----------



## henree

Just picked up a Sansui A-550 Classique integrated from my local flea market. Anyone ever listen to this model? So far after hooking it up to my Denon D-2000 headphones it sounds very pretty. Great punchy bass and crisp treble.
  I was a little scared it wouldn't work because it was dirty and the connectors on back were very old and rusty. But after a hour of listening. I am really starting to think it is better at the mids and highs than my trusty 87' model NAD 7242 Power Envelope receiver. The NAD has more power maybe too much. The subsonic bass on the NAD can't be beat though. I will give a more extensive review later in the week.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yes, I read some piece info on AK. Do you know his AK name?


 
   
  It's *hadrian333*.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> It's *hadrian333*.


 

 Wonderful!! Thanks lot!!


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> It may be irrelevant here, but..
> Is anyone here has experience with Cambridge Audio Azur 840a especially with headphone? Thanks!!


 

 a number of years ago, i had a cambridge 640 (IIRC) integrated amp driving a pair of elac bookshelfs. i found it wasnt too bad cept it wasnt that detailed but it was smooth. i had a HD600 back then & the 640s headout was slightly below a PPAv2 with opa627s & is prolly comparable to a LDII+ i had at that time. IIRC the 640s bass was slightly looser & soundstage wasnt as coherent as the PPAv2. other than that i thought it drove the senns quite well & i was pleasantly surprise it measure quite well to 'dedicateds'.
   
  but ofcos the 840s mite be an entirely different beast altogether. i know the 840 CDplayer is miles ahead of the 640.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> a number of years ago, i had a cambridge 640 (IIRC) integrated amp driving a pair of elac bookshelfs. i found it wasnt too bad cept it wasnt that detailed but it was smooth. i had a HD600 back then & the 640s headout was slightly below a PPAv2 with opa627s & is prolly comparable to a LDII+ i had at that time. IIRC the 640s bass was slightly looser & soundstage wasnt as coherent as the PPAv2. other than that i thought it drove the senns quite well & i was pleasantly surprise it measure quite well to 'dedicateds'.
> 
> but ofcos the 840s mite be an entirely different beast altogether. i know the 840 CDplayer is miles ahead of the 640.


 



 Wow, Scottie, you really are an amp guru! Thanks!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I thought it might lack the power to drive headphones like modern HT receiver. It turns out not. I might find a store to audit it.


----------



## Philimon

Got this one today: Marantz 2252


----------



## TruBrew

Nice, is that an HE-6 running off the speaker taps.
  
   
  Edit: My mistake, you own the HE-4. Do you find they perform any better that way?
  Quote: 





philimon said:


> Got this one today: Marantz 2252


----------



## Philimon

The Marantz is definitely warmer (round?,) than my Luxman's headphone out, also is warmer on my speakers. I'm really enjoying the combination with fully turned "mid" tone control with HE-4 (did not have on Luxman). I will be comparing speaker vs headphone out on Marantz soon.


----------



## Trance88

I've got a 1980 Akai receiver. I use it as my computer audio amplifier. It's not bad, but I have a feeling it's gonna need a re-cap. The sound is a little thin I think. Definitely listenable though. I'll have to try to wire up my vintage Pioneer SE-30 headphones to the speaker outputs (they're 8 ohms) as opposed to using the headphone jack.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





philimon said:


> The Marantz is definitely warmer (round?,) than my Luxman's headphone out, also is warmer on my speakers. I'm really enjoying the combination with fully turned "mid" tone control with HE-4 (did not have on Luxman). I will be comparing speaker vs headphone out on Marantz soon.


 
   
  May I know what Luxman you have? I have Rx-1120a and RX-113, RX-113 is warmer than 1120a. But I like 1120a a lot since I feel it's the "perfect" warm sound. To me, a little warmer than 1120a is kind of veil, the detail starts losing;  a little brighter than 1120a is kind of too dynamic, the soothing feeling starts losing. And the 1120a has the wildest sound-stage in my vintage stuff. If you are trying to part with your Luxman, please let me know. I really  expect your review can compare Luxman and Marantz.


----------



## Philimon

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> May I know what Luxman you have? I have Rx-1120a and RX-113, RX-113 is warmer than 1120a. But I like 1120a a lot since I feel it's the "perfect" warm sound. To me, a little warmer than 1120a is kind of veil, the detail starts losing;  a little brighter than 1120a is kind of too dynamic, the soothing feeling starts losing. And the 1120a has the wildest sound-stage in my vintage stuff. If you are trying to part with your Luxman, please let me know. I really  expect your review can compare Luxman and Marantz.


 

 I really will be doing a close comparison between the two, because I plan on selling the loser. Luxman R-1050, 55WPC. I already have an interested buyer in the Luxman if I don't plan on keeping. Also, I would prefer to sell locally because I have no experience shipping these things... though for the right price... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My speakers are bi-ampable, but I've never and am not sure how. Is it possible to hook up both receivers at the same so that I can do easy A/B comparisons? This way I don't have to get up and switch cables. Or will this mess things up?
   
  I just looked up the 1120. *The* TOTL Luxman receiver, correct? 120WPC, nice. 
   
  Unfortunately for the Luxman I slightly prefer the Marantz look, and its convenient "mid" tone control. My belief was that on the Luxman that if you turn down the treble and bass knobs, then you are basically increasing the mids which would make a mids control knob unnecessary. Am I right?


----------



## Philimon

Luxman R-1050


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Wow, Scottie, you really are an amp guru! Thanks!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  bud much as i'd like it, amp guru im NOT! LOL! however theres quite a number of gurus here starting with my (now)vintage lovin brotha Skylab. he's prolly owned more amps than i'll ever see in a lifetime not to mention the gear he's heard. now he deserving of the title 'Amp Guru'. me im nothing but a fly on the wall as all.
   
  back to cambridge amps, im sure it'll drive anything short of the vaunted orthos & K1ks.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





philimon said:


> I really will be doing a close comparison between the two, because I plan on selling the loser. Luxman R-1050, 55WPC. I already have an interested buyer in the Luxman if I don't plan on keeping. Also, I would prefer to sell locally because I have no experience shipping these things... though for the right price...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 Well,  it's sad I am living in east coast.
  I am not familiar with Bi-amp, but I do know it requires two receivers. One receiver can only to bi-wire. I guess your speakers are Mirage. I have one pair old mirage 490i also. Yes, you can connect two receiver to speakers. If you want, you can disconnect the interconnect metal piece. I did A/B comparison this way (without disconnect the metal piece) for many times. But please make sure you turn off one receiver before turn on another. 
  Adjusting treble and bass combine can affect mid-range. It depends on which range the treble and bass are. I remember Luxman R-xx50 has two bass and two treble ranges. Those can do a lot of combinations. Some people can chime in this topic since they say Sansui's treble and bass control is not useful as Pioneer's. (someone please help this topic!!) 
  Again,  I am expecting your review!!
   
  @Scottie,
  I know Skylab is amp guru, I would consider he is Tube guru. You man are vintage guru!!!


----------



## RexAeterna

philimon said:


> I really will be doing a close comparison between the two, because I plan on selling the loser. Luxman R-1050, 55WPC. I already have an interested buyer in the Luxman if I don't plan on keeping. Also, I would prefer to sell locally because I have no experience shipping these things... though for the right price...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





you can bi-amp 2 different ways. you can have one amp power the highs while another power the lows or also known as ''vertical bi-amping''. Or you can have have one speaker channel(like speaker A) power the highs and speaker B power the lows or also known as ''horizontal bi-amping'' what bi-amping is meant for is split the impedance load to the amp(s) which can improve clarity and overall sound to your liking cause of better handling of impedance dips and spikes the amp sees. i use to use my amps to passively bi-amp my technics sb-t200's and while i did get a better control over the tweeter and woofers and while i was able to fine tune the sound to my liking i didn't really noticed too much difference. i do keep my technics sb-t200 towers bi-amped cause i make use of it's powerful dual 5.5'' woofers. i get crazy hard hitting bass from them and they go much lower compared to my other speakers. i only make use of them in some movies and when i crave my guilty pleasure of earth-quake like bass and to piss off my neighbors. other then that i love my smaller natural response of my modern pioneer sp-fs51-lr floor towers. 


i would only see bi-amping benifical if your using 2 weak amps and not be able to handle the whole frequency spectrum or feel not getting enough. i usually suggest using one powerful amp that can handle low impedance drives and so forth instead of using multiple amps unless you need to have control over the frequency range and if the amp cannot handle how power usage and consently clipping or chance of clipping .


----------



## henree

How do you know if you need a re-cap? I do hear a slight humming sound through headphones when no music is playing.


----------



## moodyrn

I finally got my kr-9600 back from the repair shop, but unfortunately, it does have a blown ic. But the good news is, I just scored a working one with a few blown bulbs for 250.00(wow). A broken one recently went on ebay for around 220.00. He really didn't want to sell it for that price but I talked him into it. The ic alone goes for 200.00 when they come available(which is why broken ones go for so much). So I could sell the spare one, break the rest of the unit down in parts and should get my money back and more. So looks like it's going to work out in the end. I can't wait to compare this to my sx1010.


----------



## mythless

Anyone a fan of Mitsubishi gear?  Just picked up DA-P10, DA-A10, DA-F10 and DA-M10.


----------



## KoninK

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Anyone a fan of Mitsubishi gear?  Just picked up DA-P10, DA-A10, DA-F10 and DA-M10.


 

 Yesyes, got any pictures?


----------



## mythless

Haven't taken any yet but, I'll post some nice pictures when it stops raining lol


----------



## WarriorAnt

My wife was at the local Goodwill and saw a set of speakers with the Bose name on them.  Thinking she'd heard the name before she picked them up thinking I might want them.   They are BOSE 301 Series II in pretty good  working condition.  Price $14.99 for the pair.


----------



## Skylab

Moodyrn I look forward to your comments on the KR-9600. That is the one additional receiver I'd sort of like to try.


----------



## dukja

I was eyeing similar (or the same) one at AG but did not have the guts to get it.
   
  Let us know how it sounds.  The DA-A10 seems to be a real sleeper according to some rumor....
  
  Quote: 





mythless said:


> Anyone a fan of Mitsubishi gear?  Just picked up DA-P10, DA-A10, DA-F10 and DA-M10.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I couldn't stay away.  These vintage receivers are just too shiny and big.   I see them in my sleep now.  The Marantz units glow so nicely in the dark.   So I decided to take the 700 hours of electronics I learned in the early 80's to get my 1st Class Radiotelephone commercial operators License from the FCC and brush up and learn how to repair these pre IC era beauties.  It's going to take me a while to study up again but hey I'm retired now so I have the time. I haven't touched a multimeter or an oscilloscope in 25 years so I have to figure out where the battery in the multimeter goes... 
   
  Anyone have a suggestion on what might be an easy first receiver to restore?


----------



## Skylab

WarriorAnt, you should spend some time over on AudioKarma to research that question.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> WarriorAnt, you should spend some time over on AudioKarma to research that question.


 

  
  Wow, just went over there. Quite a large contingent of vintage heads there! Thanks.


----------



## shipsupt

I've got a little sentimental attachment to the Scott 320R as I grew up with one in my bedroom, I've thought about keeping an eye out for one... but I haven't seen too many talking about Scott gear here.  It was not exactly high end in its day.  A little too new to expect that vintage magic?  Anyone try the HPO? 
   
  No chance to retrieve the "original", my brother still uses it daily to this day.  Last time I listened it was in need of having the volume pot cleaned, but otherwise was going strong.


----------



## mrarroyo

I won a beat up and untested Marantz 2230B with a matching and beat up as well WC-22 case in eBay. Hope I can bring it up to life, will post before an after pics in a few weeks. Oh, and if that was not bad enough (already have a 2238B and 2220) I am looking to get a McIntosh MC 2505. I need to stop! At least I am trying to sell some stuff, although the economy is very slow. Cheers.


----------



## Skylab

Congrats Miguel! At least the vintage stuff can be cheap thrills. I picked up a pair of Pioneer HPM-40 speakers super cheap - the drivers are perfect, but the cabinets needed some work. Spending today working on that. They are the "little brother" to my HPM-100, kinda cool.


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, I remember the HPM40 and HPM100 from my college days (old phart here). BTW, before you get to into the wood have you used Howard's Restor-a-Finish? See: http://www.howardproducts.com/restora.htm
   
  Just make sure you have up to 0000 steel wool and a few rags.


----------



## Skylab

I will try that Miguel!  Thanks for the tip.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> my HPM-100


 

 Skylab, now that you have two sets of Pioneer's HPM-tweeter speakers, you'll need to get one of their HPM headphones. Try for an SE-700.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I do need a pair of those. I have a nice pair of the 8 ohm SE-50, but they are a little too dark sounding for me.


----------



## henree

How do you hook up headphones to the speaker inputs of a receiver?


----------



## scompton

Speaker outputs, and you need to make an adapter.


----------



## RexAeterna

an adapter or just re-cable your headphones as balanced making the tips either banana connectors or spade type or can just have plain speaker wire ends as well.


----------



## henree

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> an adapter or just re-cable your headphones as balanced making the tips either banana connectors or spade type or can just have plain speaker wire ends as well.


 


  Will listening this way be an upgrade sonically?
  I saw the other day in radioshack, an audio cable that formed into a headphone input. Could this work? Could I just plug the red and yellow audio cable into the back of my Sansui receiver? I hope this won't damage my headphones.


----------



## WNBC

Probably not, I think you are describing a standard mini-stereo to RCA input cable.  This is typically used as aux input not output to headphones.
  Is this what you found?
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP
   
   
  As previously mentioned you need a balanced headphone cable and adapter.
   
  Here is an image of an adapter I bought off the forums here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/555546/hiflight-xlr-speaker-leads-adapter-banana-plugs-sold
  Or you could use something like this
http://www.head-direct.com/product_detail.php?p=104
   
*What headphones are you trying to drive?  What sansui model do you have?*_  _Most people use speaker taps for hard to drive headphones with amps/receivers having weak headphone output.  Under such a scenario one would benefit sonically.  Does your equipment fit this criteria?
   
  Quote:


henree said:


> How do you hook up headphones to the speaker inputs of a receiver?


 

  Quote:


henree said:


> Will listening this way be an upgrade sonically?
> I saw the other day in radioshack, an audio cable that formed into a headphone input. Could this work? Could I just plug the red and yellow audio cable into the back of my Sansui receiver? I hope this won't damage my headphones.


----------



## henree

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Probably not, I think you are describing a standard mini-stereo to RCA input cable.  This is typically used as aux input not output to headphones.
> Is this what you found?
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP
> 
> ...


 
  I have a Sansui A-550. There is no info anywhere about this unit. I have Denon D-2000 headphones. Which are easy to drive. I just wanted to see if there would be an improvement if listening through the back of the receiver. Oh and yes that amazon link you copied is what I thought could work.


----------



## Frank I

you would put too much power int to D2000 and fry the drivers. Use the headphone jack


----------



## henree

Quote: 





frank i said:


> you would put too much power int to D2000 and fry the drivers. Use the headphone jack


 


  Yeah I was afraid of that.


----------



## stockpimp007

Any recommendations for dealers on vintage A/V in Dallas area?


----------



## sesshin

Can finally join the vintage receiver club! Picked up a nice Kenwood KR-9600 today off of Craigslist for a decent price.
   
  First impression, amp sounds a lot more full and rich with my LCD-2s compared to the Harman Kardon 3490 and uDAC-2 I was running them on. Tuner is a joy to use. Can get the volume knob up to around '1' before it's too loud. Definitely a monster. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Now for my Audio-gd DAC to get here...


----------



## blur510

congrats, that's a beast receiver.
  
  Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Can finally join the vintage receiver club! Picked up a nice Kenwood KR-9600 today off of Craigslist for a decent price.
> 
> First impression, amp sounds a lot more full and rich with my LCD-2s compared to the Harman Kardon 3490 and uDAC-2 I was running them on. Tuner is a joy to use. Can get the volume knob up to around '1' before it's too loud. Definitely a monster.
> 
> ...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





henree said:


> I have a Sansui A-550. There is no info anywhere about this unit. I have Denon D-2000 headphones. Which are easy to drive. I just wanted to see if there would be an improvement if listening through the back of the receiver. Oh and yes that amazon link you copied is what I thought could work.


 


  LOL! if it were me, i'd definitely NOT hook up the D2k direct to speaker outs. i think u mite have perhaps O....say a mm or 2 of vol headroom before popping D2k tranducer cones or worst, your ear drums so no matter how inviting the speaker direct hookup mite seem, its NOT a brilliant idea for a super efficient headphone like the denons.
   
  OTOH i mite be tempted to try it out on an AKG K702. not sure if it'll be better sounding than the headphone jack but its def an interesting area of exploration


----------



## RexAeterna

henree said:


> Yeah I was afraid of that.




you be fine with any headphone off the speaker outputs. i rewired many headphones and even computer gaming headsets to be used off the speaker outputs and just soldered 16 gauge copper wire as an experiment to see how it works. just with headphone like the D2000 or other that has high sensitivity you would get very little to no headroom at all in volume and find yourself using the ''muting'' button all the time while keeping the volume at zero. i would only suggest speaker outputs for very power hungry and low sensitive headphones. usually any headphone ranging from 32-600ohms should be just more then fine off lot of these receiver's headphone jack with couple of resistors in place. 

i just don't suggest it to some cause your taking a big risk and seriously need to be alert when using your amp's speaker output cause one wrong move on the volume knob or tone controls(even loudness button) you'll fry your headphones within seconds or if lucky just kill them enough where you get annoying rattling consentingly rendering them as useless. if you do plan in the future. always remember before headphone use make sure volume is all the way down to zero and to make sure loudness is off and all tone controls are set to defeat/balance. even if the headphone can take lots of power your ears sure won't be able to so volume always at zero on power up. i don't know about you but i'm very sensitive to high SPL and very high frequencies(my hearing is better now then when i was a kid) so i always listen at the bare minimum spl at 1w/1mw with lot of speakers and headphones


----------



## popa

Get a Russound TBL-75 tabletop volume control. This has a headphone jack in front. This unit connects to speaker outs. It does not seem to color the sound to me. Works great for tapping for a headphone jack when do not have one.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Can finally join the vintage receiver club! Picked up a nice Kenwood KR-9600 today off of Craigslist for a decent price.
> 
> First impression, amp sounds a lot more full and rich with my LCD-2s compared to the Harman Kardon 3490 and uDAC-2 I was running them on. Tuner is a joy to use. Can get the volume knob up to around '1' before it's too loud. Definitely a monster.
> 
> ...


 
  I should have mine up and running by the end of the week. I really can't wait. It's going to be a cage match between it, and my sx1010. I have a feeling my sx1010 may be more neutral sounding and the the kr-9600 may be more fun and musical sounding. But only time will tell.


----------



## sesshin

here's a photo of the beaut

   
  I really really want to find the wooden case that goes with it but I guess they're super rare and hard to come by.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice looking! 

You can find people who will make custom wooden cases for those, but not sure you want to spend the $$$ - they tend to go for $150-200.


----------



## mythless

I do have a soft spot for rack handles and VU meters.


----------



## henree

What to do when you hear faint static out of the right and left channels through headphones?
  Sansui A-550 1982 year.
  The inside is very clean. No sigh of cap leakage.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





henree said:


> What to do when you hear faint static out of the right and left channels through headphones?
> Sansui A-550 1982 year.
> The inside is very clean. No sigh of cap leakage.


 

 De-oxide normally solves problem for you.
   
  @Sesshin, congrats!! What a beauty!! You are the second person who got KR-9600 in this thread if my memory serve me well. I always want big Kenwood, but it's really hard to find. I was told finding big Kenwood is more difficult than finding big Yammy.(of course at a fair price)


----------



## sesshin

Oh price was very fair. Hindsight I kind of lucked out.
   
  One weird thing though, after reading Audiokarma a bit and seeing a lot of people recommend recapping any 30+ year old receivers, I called around to some of the more reputable vintage audio repair shops in SoCal (Audio Specialists in Studio City, Classic Audio Repair in San Diego and Solutions in Los Angeles) and across the board they basically refused to recap the 9600. They said they could if I really wanted to, but it would extremely expensive and the benefit in sound quality be miniscule to non-existant. 
   
  Pretty dissuasive argument against recapping coming from guys with decades of audio repair experience. But otoh the guys on Audiokarma seem pretty adamant about the benefits also. I don't know who to believe. 
   
  If my soldering skills were a little more up to snuff I might attempt it myself just to see if there is a difference. But considering how rare these receivers are starting to become I'm pretty reluctant in fear of messing something up.


----------



## cifani090

@sesshin, i love your Kenwood. I think i have a soft spot for all Kenwood's. Also is anyone looking to buy a project Onkyo MKII 4500? Mint condition, just needs a few bulbs and a little fixing on one channel


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone own a Marantz 2245?


----------



## vuntruong

All Kenwood .  KH-71, sounds really good.  Just a 8 ohms though.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Nice!


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Oh price was very fair. Hindsight I kind of lucked out.
> 
> One weird thing though, after reading Audiokarma a bit and seeing a lot of people recommend recapping any 30+ year old receivers, I called around to some of the more reputable vintage audio repair shops in SoCal (Audio Specialists in Studio City, Classic Audio Repair in San Diego and Solutions in Los Angeles) and across the board they basically refused to recap the 9600. They said they could if I really wanted to, but it would extremely expensive and the benefit in sound quality be miniscule to non-existant.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like a lot of work!  How many capacitors?  maybe working on a Kenwood kr-9600 is a PITA or consume a lot of time.   The idea is to recap before something goes wrong and maybe improve on SQ by adding poly caps where they would help.  So.. its really depends on the amp.  If your amp still sounds great, then keep using it.  Should it start to act up, SQ is degrading, sounds weak, then it's time to recap.


----------



## blur510

talked to the guy from Classic Audio Repair from San Diego, and he told me the same thing, why replace parts that don't need replacing is what he told me. That guy is very smart btw and he has lots of experience, he is currently refreshing my sx-1010.
  
  Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Oh price was very fair. Hindsight I kind of lucked out.
> 
> One weird thing though, after reading Audiokarma a bit and seeing a lot of people recommend recapping any 30+ year old receivers, I called around to some of the more reputable vintage audio repair shops in SoCal (Audio Specialists in Studio City, Classic Audio Repair in San Diego and Solutions in Los Angeles) and across the board they basically refused to recap the 9600. They said they could if I really wanted to, but it would extremely expensive and the benefit in sound quality be miniscule to non-existant.
> 
> ...


----------



## mrarroyo

Caps, unlike wine do not get better with age. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You may wish to read:
   
  http://www.elna-america.com/tech_al_reliability.php
   
  http://www.hans-egebo.dk/Tutorial/electrolytic_capacitors.htm


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Caps, unlike wine do not get better with age.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not all wine age well, most should be consume once it has been bottled ( give or take 3-4 years) .  I just think Caps should be younger than the owner of the amp.


----------



## RexAeterna

theres lot of fuss and arguments over replacing caps especially the big power filter caps. the tech i know told me if there is nothing wrong and if it's not running out of spec then it does not need replacement. he told me through his years of repairing audio equipment(over 30 years) that these big hefty power supply caps last longer then people think. if you feel you need to replace the caps then go ahead but lot people will find no issue of keeping the old caps as long as there is no sign of it being dry,disfigured or leaking or running off of spec.


----------



## Frank I

Important is to get the right tech that knows the product or how to do a rebuild. The guy that worked on  my 980 when I had decided to put a different cap in the left channel and the sound of the amp went down the drain. He then put the old ones back  and all the magic came back. There are some people doing restoration on receivers for one is Mark the Fixer on audiokharma who works on  Pioneers and has a 18 month  wait but he charges 250.00 labor plus parts which he said to me that rarely runs over 50.00 Good deal for the guys in the Chicago are.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I have a chance to get a large pair of Advent speakers fro $25.  Thing is the woofers need to be completely refoamed and I'm not sure if thats an easy thing to do or if it worth doing.
  They look like this but without the woofer foam.


----------



## dukja

My Pioneer SX-950 came in today.  Thanks to Frank's note, I got this cosmetically and functionally wonderful one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  It was surely heavy and big.  Good thing is that I was used the sheer size of Ref-1/7 and the huge NAD power amp, so this wasn't difficult for me to handle.
   
  Hooked up HE-6 with speaker pigtail, the sound was smoother and warmer than my Rotel.  This shows how much HE-6's SQ can be amp sensitive.  I'll need some more time to form the final impression, but the initial impression is quite positive, probably the best I have heard (vs Phoenix alone, Phoenix+NAD, Rotel).  The sound is not "modern style" - crystal clear ultra-black background that kind of sound.  Still, the details, soundstage, and focus are there with rounded edges.  It is pleasing to listen.
   
  All the knobs and switches seem to work and FM pickup local NPR without additional antenna, which is a great plus.  It is just so interesting to go through all those switches.  And three speaker output will be very convenient for switching between my HE-6 and Monitor Audio speaker.
   
  I am happy to get a good one without worry about service soon (finger crossed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  The size and weight makes shipping challenge.  Up to now the best shipping I got is using Styrofoam cut to exact shape and frame/suspend the equipment in the box.
   
  BTW, these old "furniture" usually has a old smell.  I guess it is probably from the wood absorbing the molecule around the house.  Anybody knows a good way to clean it up?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have a chance to get a large pair of Advent speakers fro $25.  Thing is the woofers need to be completely refoamed and I'm not sure if thats an easy thing to do or if it worth doing.
> They look like this but without the woofer foam.


 


  Foaming is quite easy but a long process, there are tons of guides out there on the internet even youtube videos.  Good luck!


----------



## Sobeefus

My humble vintage rig. Found this in dads garage and was allowed to take it because "it didn't work" when in fact it works splendidly! Even gave new life to an aging pair of Sony cans I have  .


----------



## WarriorAnt

Is that a Sansui?   It looks just like one my sister had in the early seventies from which she drove a pair of Bose 901's with.  She's still using it with those same speakers.


----------



## RexAeterna

looks like the 5000A/5000x to me. i have one 5000x. wonderful receiver. i would never part with that. it was my first real ''power house'' receiver i ever bought and owned. i just can't believe the ridiculous prices they go for now. i bought mine for 65 bucks and that's barely even year ago. i think you guys help drive up prices around here lol. now i can't find a 5000x under 200 when it comes close to end of bidding time. it's all your guys fault.


----------



## Sobeefus

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> looks like the 5000A/5000x to me. i have one 5000x. wonderful receiver. i would never part with that. it was my first real ''power house'' receiver i ever bought and owned. i just can't believe the ridiculous prices they go for now. i bought mine for 65 bucks and that's barely even year ago. i think you guys help drive up prices around here lol. now i can't find a 5000x under 200 when it comes close to end of bidding time. it's all your guys fault.


 


   


  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Is that a Sansui?   It looks just like one my sister had in the early seventies from which she drove a pair of Bose 901's with.  She's still using it with those same speakers.


 
  Yep it's a 5000x. Dad bought it in Vietnam I believe. I'm just glad he thought it was broken and just too old to keep. His loss my gain 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now I know I need to clean up the face but I'm not sure how and am not about to experiment. Any suggestions? The wood by the way is in impeccable condition.


----------



## mythless

For cleaner I use those biodegradable/organic cleaners, dilute it with water and use a microfiber cloth and a toothbrush to clean my units.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





dukja said:


> My Pioneer SX-950 came in today.  Thanks to Frank's note, I got this cosmetically and functionally wonderful one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  that guy you bought it from had unblemished and lots of feedback so i thought it may be good. I think the 50 series is better than the 80 series with detail. I am glad you like it. Good luck and do enjoy it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sobeefus said:


> Yep it's a 5000x. Dad bought it in Vietnam I believe. I'm just glad he thought it was broken and just too old to keep. His loss my gain
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My sisters husband was in the Navy and got his at the base store. I've been scheming since the 70's to get it from her...


----------



## BmWr75

I would buy them at that price.  Refoaming is easy.  Recapping crossover is probably in order too.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have a chance to get a large pair of Advent speakers fro $25.  Thing is the woofers need to be completely refoamed and I'm not sure if thats an easy thing to do or if it worth doing.
> They look like this but without the woofer foam.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I would buy them at that price.  Refoaming is easy.  Recapping crossover is probably in order too.


 
  Yeah I think I'm going to take a chance on them and use one of these kits.    I could use the recapping experience.
  http://www.simplyspeakers.com/advent-speaker-repair-foam-edge-kits.html


----------



## vuntruong

http://www.tvmidtvest.dk/indhold/fast-arbejde-scan-speak
   
  Something to inspire you.  Ever wanted to see how they manufacture high-end drivers.


----------



## RexAeterna

sobeefus said:


> Yep it's a 5000x. Dad bought it in Vietnam I believe. I'm just glad he thought it was broken and just too old to keep. His loss my gain
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i use brasso for metal cleaning and it polishes and cleans the deep dirt great but smells pretty bad. for wood polishing. Old English i use. it will help bring out the wood coat and give it a nice deep clean. remember when cleaning wood,clean within the grain.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> it was Scottie who got Rob on the Pioneer kick and Rob and scottie got me interested and I smile all the time and glad you made a better score than I. But they are really special receivers and even if the kaput woth the bucks to rebuild. They are special for sure and glad you see it the same way and no need for pigtail with the puppies in the headphone jack. it is my best headphone amps for them for sure and man my D7000 thrives with it. Welcome to Team Pioneer.


 

  
  x2!
   
  I'm on Day 2 reading about vintage amps here in this thread. Was minding my business after dinner last night and discovered the discussions here. I already know a few of you head-fier's from around the site. I'm most familiar with Skylab.
   
  After reading the Scottiebabie - Skylab exchanges, complimented further by Frank and a few other's experiences and purchases, I got up this morning on a mission. Pulled the trigger on a somewhat scuffed up Pioneer SX-650 from ebay - $61.
   
  When I regain employment, I'll step up and get some real vintage iron! Or get the 650 dolled-up at the least. Meanwhile, I'm excited with what I bought. It ships Friday (FedEx Ground/economy) from Ohio; will likely get it 8 or 9 July. Can't wait to clean the exterior, spray the contacts and do some listening.
   
  Will return with photos once it arrives; find space in the listening room. I too, have D7000's and was initially concerned about its sensitivity at 25 ohms. But no other owners seems to be having any problems... great then!


----------



## shipsupt

Found a cool link to a page with lots of vintage amp info, owners manuals, service manuals, etc... I found the service manual for my SX-650 here.  I thought some of you might be interested...
   
http://jbmanuals.free.fr/


----------



## Skylab

SilentOne I will look forward to your thoughts on your Pioneer. Certainly you got a nice price there!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> SilentOne I will look forward to your thoughts on your Pioneer. Certainly you got a nice price there!


 

 Cabin fever ~
   
  To envy your gear, past and present, is way too easy. _That you got out of the house, and overseas to boot, now there's some real envy!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I absolutely love the SX-1250 you got! Shipsupt told me about his SX-650 last month and I started to think _"What if..."_
   
  Just recently, I followed up with him on the Pioneer to see if he had found a shop to get some work done. After that exchange, I really became interested. Then discovered this thread Wednesday night and after that, it was over - had to have one! My budget wouldn't allow for anything more than $85 local or shipped. Can always score something else later...
   
  Shipsupt and I only live about 20 minutes apart - might suggest to him we get together soon and clean up our units (After all, he got me in this mess). _Then eat, drink, look, listen!_




   
  When I find some reliable Media Mail packaging for shipping vinyl, I ought to send you Yamaha R&D's "Session III" this summer.


----------



## Frank I

I love the SX650. Mine beat up the cabinet needs work but its clean sounding and probably could use a cleaning also but for what i paid if this one goes I will just get another silver Series 50 series amp. I may look for a SX950 although for headphones the 650 will play anything on the planet and do it well. great receivers for headphone usage,. Good luck with yours and have some fun with it an do let us know what you think


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I love the SX650. Mine beat up the cabinet needs work but its clean sounding and probably could use a cleaning also but for what i paid if this one goes I will just get another silver Series 50 series amp. I may look for a SX950 although for headphones the 650 will play anything on the planet and do it well. great receivers for headphone usage,. Good luck with yours and have some fun with it an do let us know what you think


 

 Thanks. It's goin' to require a lot of patience from me up front. Will make payment later today; unit ships from back East (FedEx Economy) to Cali; then there's the holiday weekend. Hope to get my mitts on them in 10 days or so. Can't wait! 
   
  By chance, you, Skylab, anyone, try boutique fuses in your vintage gear?


----------



## shipsupt

silent one said:


> Cabin fever ~
> 
> To envy your gear, past and present, is way too easy. _That you got out of the house, and overseas to boot, now there's some real envy!_
> 
> ...




If you break out some vinyl we should do it soon!


----------



## WarriorAnt

I grabbed those Advents today, now for the refoaming, cabinet refinishing, and Crossover update.   Not sure what to drive them with,looks like they may need more power than my current inventory of Marantz 2215B and the Yamaha CR 820, but I'm pretty sure the first thing I'll test them with when they are done is Dark Side of the Moon.


----------



## BmWr75

The receivers you have will probably be OK.  The Original Large Advents I had didn't seem to power hungry.
   
  I use a AA battery to center the voice coil.  This after the new foam is attached to the cone and dried.  Apply the glue the foam that connects to the basket.  Attach the battery via 2 short wire leads.  It will pull the cone in or push it out as you swap the battery lead to the +/- posts on the woofer.  This centers the voice coil perfectly and prevents having to take an exacto knife to the old VC dust cover and use shims.
   
  Howard's Restor-a-Finish is the easiest way to refurb a set of cabinets that just look faded, have water ring, etc.  Sometimes complete stripping and refinished is needed, but Howard's is the way to go if they are not in bad shape.
   
  Deoxit the three way tweeter switch too.  They can become corroded and cause the tweeter to cut out.
   
  If the highs still don't sound good, then recap the crossover.
   
  Enjoy!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The receivers you have will probably be OK.  The Original Large Advents I had didn't seem to power hungry.
> 
> I use a AA battery to center the voice coil.  This after the new foam is attached to the cone and dried.  Apply the glue the foam that connects to the basket.  Attach the battery via 2 short wire leads.  It will pull the cone in or push it out as you swap the battery lead to the +/- posts on the woofer.  This centers the voice coil perfectly and prevents having to take an exacto knife to the old VC dust cover and use shims.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the tips!   The cabinets are ok for the most part except for some gouges here and there from handling at the goodwill I believe.


----------



## moodyrn

Well I received the kr-9600 that I got to pull an ic from for my current kr-9600. The surprising thing is, it works!! But cosmetically its in decent at best condition and my current one is mint. So I haven't exchanged the ic's yet, but I decided to crank it up to see what it sounded like. So first off, the headphone out isn't nearly as powerful as my sx1010. I have to go to about 1:00 to get the same volume I get with my 1010 at about 9:00. After 2:00 it starts clipping. I can't get the volume knob on my sx1010 high enough to clip because 12:00 is approaching very dangerous levels. But I will say, that it's pretty much what I expected the sound to be. The sx1010 is super transparent, dynamic, clean, airy, and dead neutral. It's the best solid state sound I've heard so far. The kenwood is organic, more analog like, lush, slightly warm, and a little less transparent. It's a very pleasing musical sound. I wouldn't say it tries to sound like a tube amp, because other solid state amps I've listened to that tried to sound tube like, sounded horrible. I would say that it tries to sound more musical instead of analytical. I think the headphone out may be a more "true" headphone out because every headphone I plugged into the 1010 had hiss. Even the k340 which i just recently sold had a little hiss(which was very surprising). But it's nothing the -20 button didn't solve. To me that button is more "the headphone button". So I haven't tried the speaker out yet with the he-6, but I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to hooking this up to all of my speakers. It's too soon to tell which one will be the he-6 champ, but the fight I'm really looking forward to is the kr-9600 vs the fisher x-100c on my 98db klipsch epics. The fisher narrowly beat out the 1010 on those. With the klipsch already being a little bright, the 1010 was just a little too clean sounding on those.


----------



## moodyrn

Just a few more impressions. I took it upstairs to my vintage rig which also holds my best source. The headphone out sounds better and the sound from the speaker taps is much better. But I still prefer my sx1010. The gain from the speaker tap isn't any more than the 1010. In fact I can move the volume knob further than I can on the 1010. I'm now wondering if something is going on. But as soon as I hooked it up to my klipschs, things changed. In fact, it has better synergy with them than my fisher. Even though the klipsch are 98db, they still benefit drastically from the extra power. The reason I preferred fisher to the pioneer is it's lush romantic tone. The pioneer was technically better, but the fisher was just more fun to listen to. Well with the kenny, most of the technical aspect of the pioneer comes through(most but not all), with much of the musically of the fisher. It isn't as warm or romantic sounding, but if I could use one word to describe it, it would be natural. It isn't bright, warm, lush, analytical or anything like that. Everything just sounds real and life like. They have great synergy together. Instrument separation is also outstanding. I also imagine this thing really do benefit from the dual power supplies. So like I said earlier, I still prefer the pioneer with the he-6. But.......after opening it up, I'm astonish it works at all. It looks like it was locked in a tomb with a mummy. Also there are bad caps all over this thing. So that would explain why the pioneer beats it so easily with the he-6, but the fact that it still sounds as good as it does makes me real excited to see just how good my other one is going to sound once I change out the output ic. The repair shop technician told me everything else inside is fine. So I will keep you posted. But here's some pics of the inside of the one I received today.
   

   
  Just for reference, here's a shot of "my" kenny.


----------



## blur510

wow that Kenny looks nice and clean.  I have sourced myself an SX-1010 but it is getting a refreshing right now,  I hope it sounds good when it's all done.  Right now I am using a Sansui G7000, and boy o boy.. it sounds so good.
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Just a few more impressions. I took it upstairs to my vintage rig which also holds my best source. The headphone out sounds better and the sound from the speaker taps is much better. But I still prefer my sx1010. The gain from the speaker tap isn't any more than the 1010. In fact I can move the volume knob further than I can on the 1010. I'm now wondering if something is going on. But as soon as I hooked it up to my klipschs, things changed. In fact, it has better synergy with them than my fisher. Even though the klipsch are 98db, they still benefit drastically from the extra power. The reason I preferred fisher to the pioneer is it's lush romantic tone. The pioneer was technically better, but the fisher was just more fun to listen to. Well with the kenny, most of the technical aspect of the pioneer comes through(most but not all), with much of the musically of the fisher. It isn't as warm or romantic sounding, but if I could use one word to describe it, it would be natural. It isn't bright, warm, lush, analytical or anything like that. Everything just sounds real and life like. They have great synergy together. Instrument separation is also outstanding. I also imagine this thing really do benefit from the dual power supplies. So like I said earlier, I still prefer the pioneer with the he-6. But.......after opening it up, I'm astonish it works at all. It looks like it was locked in a tomb with a mummy. Also there are bad caps all over this thing. So that would explain why the pioneer beats it so easily with the he-6, but the fact that it still sounds as good as it does makes me real excited to see just how good my other one is going to sound once I change out the output ic. The repair shop technician told me everything else inside is fine. So I will keep you posted. But here's some pics of the inside of the one I received today.
> 
> 
> 
> Just for reference, here's a shot of "my" kenny.


----------



## moodyrn

I think you will be quiet happy with the sx1010. Let us know how you like it once you receive it.


----------



## blur510

I definitely will, but it will be limited to, it's good and it's really good.. lol my skills with describing what I hear is not very good. thanks for the info on the Pioneer.
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I think you will be quiet happy with the sx1010. Let us know how you like it once you receive it.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





silent one said:


> By chance, you, Skylab, anyone, try boutique fuses in your vintage gear?


 

 I have never even tried any boutique fuses in my modern gear


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Found a cool link to a page with lots of vintage amp info, owners manuals, service manuals, etc... I found the service manual for my SX-650 here.  I thought some of you might be interested...
> 
> http://jbmanuals.free.fr/


 

 Helpful URL, thanks


----------



## henree

I have been getting a humming sound from my Sansui. Strangely when I touch the top of the unit the humming almost dissappears. Also when I unplug the audio wires there is no hum. What could be the culprit?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





henree said:


> I have been getting a humming sound from my Sansui. Strangely when I touch the top of the unit the humming almost dissappears. Also when I unplug the audio wires there is no hum. What could be the culprit?


 

 Ground loop maybe.....google it.


----------



## RexAeterna

henree said:


> I have been getting a humming sound from my Sansui. Strangely when I touch the top of the unit the humming almost dissappears. Also when I unplug the audio wires there is no hum. What could be the culprit?




ground loop or impedance mismatch on the input source. i get that problem big time with my ps3 when hooked up to a wall socket. best to use a surge protector but make sure it's not a current limiter cause lot people will highly suggest plug power amps/receivers always directly into the wall so you don't limit the amount of current drawn or use a 14-16 gauge extension cable cause you need thicker copper for more power transfer and can handle the heat with excess power. that's why it's very dangerous to upgrade your house's circuit breaker without doing a complete rewiring of the house with thicker gauge.

it's mostly likely ground loop tho. try it in a separate socket or a surge protector that is grounded. also it's very rare but you can actually receive interference from fluorescent bulbs nearby as well cause radio frequencies in the air. if all else fails it's most likely the power supply caps or the power transformer in the amp.


----------



## Skylab

OK so my latest vintage audio score is a mint condition Panasonic Audio Scope:
   



   
   
  Serves no real purpose but to add further bling to the Captain Midnight rig


----------



## WarriorAnt

OH NICE!   Love the name of the rig too!


----------



## Silent One

Anyone upgrade the power cord to their Pioneer SX-650? Was thinking maybe getting a high quality IEC connector that would pig-tail out of the chassis as a replacement. This way I could have a run at using my own power cord. Thoughts?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK so my latest vintage audio score is a mint condition Panasonic Audio Scope:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That looks really neat!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK so my latest vintage audio score is a mint condition Panasonic Audio Scope:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  The entire CM rig is something to behold. Especially the Marantz, in all of its blue four-gauge glory. Despite its beautiful face however, the big Pioneer is warm, inviting and downright mesmerizing to look at!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> OK so my latest vintage audio score is a mint condition Panasonic Audio Scope:
> 
> 
> Serves no real purpose but to add further bling to the Captain Midnight rig


 

 what's that big receivers again?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for the nice comments all 

WarriorAnt, that is the King of the Pioneers, the 270 watt per channel SX-1980.


----------



## ardgedee

That scope is a beaut, Skylab. I wonder how similar it is to the MCS-badged scope that Panasonic made for a while, too. Those have occasionally popped up in the usual places, though usually with burned-in CRTs (since they had TV band tuners and could be used as tiny televisions).


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks for the nice comments all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sure looks like a King!


----------



## Skylab

ardgedee said:


> That scope is a beaut, Skylab. I wonder how similar it is to the MCS-badged scope that Panasonic made for a while, too. Those have occasionally popped up in the usual places, though usually with burned-in CRTs (since they had TV band tuners and could be used as tiny televisions).




Thanks! I was fortunate that this one might even have been NOS - it was in original box, with manual and warranty card, and truly looks unused.

I have seen that MCS one and wondered about it, but it looks different. This Panasonic does not have a TV tuner in it, whereas the MCS seems to as you said.


----------



## Zida

I'd very much enjoy it if you mailed in that warranty card.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm really drawn to the Marantz sound. Can anyone suggest some models I should keep my ears out for?


----------



## henree

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm really drawn to the Marantz sound. Can anyone suggest some models I should keep my ears out for?


 

 Warriorant how would you describe the Marantz sound? I have never had one of their receivers. I only have a 1986 Nad and 1982 Sansui.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





henree said:


> Warriorant how would you describe the Marantz sound? I have never had one of their receivers. I only have a 1986 Nad and 1982 Sansui.


 

 Well I can only go by the Marantz 2215B I picked up and then plugged in my daughters Audio Technica ATH- AD 700's and Grado 80i's.   I found the sound to be amazingly smooth, effortless, liquid, as if it was a vintage tube amp. Not harsh in any way or electronic sounding.  The overall experience was warm and musical, it has a nice balance to the sound. also it has a big sound that is very engaging.  To be honest I hadn't heard a receiver since the 70's and I was astonished at how good the Marantz sounded. The 2215B is a low power unit but I am assuming that the higher powered Marantz units have the same characteristics that the low powered 2215B but I could be totally wrong in that regard. Thats why I want to get a more powerful Marantz. One that is higher in the line but don't know which one.  I was going to recap the 2215B but it sounds so good to me that I don't want to do anything to it that might change it's sonics until it gives up the ghost.

 The low power of the 2215B was respectable with the LCD's but really couldn't do the job. But with the 700's and the 80 it really impressed me which was something I hadn't realized would happen.


----------



## henree

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well I can only go by the Marantz 2215B I picked up and then plugged in my daughters Audio Technica ATH- AD 700's and Grado 80i's.   I found the sound to be amazingly smooth, effortless, liquid, as if it was a vintage tube amp. Not harsh in any way or electronic sounding.  The overall experience was warm and musical, it has a nice balance to the sound. also it has a big sound that is very engaging.  To be honest I hadn't heard a receiver since the 70's and I was astonished at how good the Marantz sounded. The 2215B is a low power unit but I am assuming that the higher powered Marantz units have the same characteristics that the low powered 2215B but I could be totally wrong in that regard. Thats why I want to get a more powerful Marantz. One that is higher in the line but don't know which one.  I was going to recap the 2215B but it sounds so good to me that I don't want to do anything to it that might change it's sonics until it gives up the ghost.
> 
> The low power of the 2215B was respectable with the LCD's but really couldn't do the job. But with the 700's and the 80 it really impressed me which was something I hadn't realized would happen.


 
  Wow you have me wanting to take the plunge into my first Marantz receiver. I really like my Nad 7240 receiver. But it is a little too dry and cold for my tastes. My Denon D2000 have warm characteristics. But the coldness of the Nad really neutralizes the sound. I had a Little dot hybrid. But the bass was lacking. So I found myself going back to the Nad because of this. I think I may hunt down the exact model you have.
  Thanks again for your sonic description.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm really drawn to the Marantz sound. Can anyone suggest some models I should keep my ears out for?


 


  Well I love my 2275.  Plenty of power for even the HE-6 right out of the headphone out.  Really nice sounding receiver.  I have my B&W N805's connected to it and they sound excellent also.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well I love my 2275.  Plenty of power for even the HE-6 right out of the headphone out.  Really nice sounding receiver.  I have my B&W N805's connected to it and they sound excellent also.


 
  Thanks Skylab, I'll keep an eye out for that one also.   I'm thinking about also picking up a local 2235B to restore because I found a step by step tutorial on the web to restore that model which seems like a good thing since I'm just beginning on restoration.
   
  http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/restoration/2235b.html
   
  In your opinion is there an overall Marantz sound, a Marantz house sound like the sound I was describing with the 2215B?


----------



## Skylab

Unfortunately I can't answer that question. I've really only heard the 2275. I had a 2240 briefly, and I did think it sounded fairly similar, although it wasn't in as nice a shape as my 2275. But based on that very small sample, I think their 22xx series receivers sound very good indeed.


----------



## Maverickmonk

I've heard the 2215B recently, albeit briefly, but it was very similar to my 2245 that I have as my main stereo setup (with technics speakers, denon cd player and jvc turntable). the 15b sounded cleaner, but I cannot comment on whether that is due to a difference in sound, or possible difference in condition, as I ahve not gotten around to recapping my 45 yet, and for all I know the 2215 was recapped in the past. both had the "warm" Marantz sound which, so far as I know, charactarizes all the 70's solidstate marantz gear. I love my 45 and wouldn't trade it for anything. I am not sure if it can power the planar monsters from the headphone out, but I do know that it supposidly (so i've heard) does quite a lovely job from the speaker taps. I wouldn't know firsthand on that since I don't have any of such highquality headphones in my posession. Goodluck with your vintage trip!
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thanks Skylab, I'll keep an eye out for that one also.   I'm thinking about also picking up a local 2235B to restore because I found a step by step tutorial on the web to restore that model which seems like a good thing since I'm just beginning on restoration.
> 
> http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/restoration/2235b.html
> 
> In your opinion is there an overall Marantz sound, a Marantz house sound like the sound I was describing with the 2215B?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> I've heard the 2215B recently, albeit briefly, but it was very similar to my 2245 that I have as my main stereo setup (with technics speakers, denon cd player and jvc turntable). the 15b sounded cleaner, but I cannot comment on whether that is due to a difference in sound, or possible difference in condition, as I ahve not gotten around to recapping my 45 yet, and for all I know the 2215 was recapped in the past. both had the "warm" Marantz sound which, so far as I know, charactarizes all the 70's solidstate marantz gear. I love my 45 and wouldn't trade it for anything. I am not sure if it can power the planar monsters from the headphone out, but I do know that it supposidly (so i've heard) does quite a lovely job from the speaker taps. I wouldn't know firsthand on that since I don't have any of such highquality headphones in my posession. Goodluck with your vintage trip!


 

 I have yet to hear the 2215B with speakers but will most likely do so tomorrow with a pair of Bose 301 Series II speakers I picked up at Goodwill for $14 the pair.  I was able to grab them before the "Goodwill Zombies" as I call them gravitated slowly towards them in their zombie like slow shuffle.  Besides the sound of the Marantz I simply love the way they look also.


----------



## sesshin

Regarding the "Loudness" function on the KR-9600 (although this might apply to other brands/models as well), can anyone explain exactly what that function does?
   
  After listening a while I find I actually prefer the way it sounds with Loudness engaged over the bare signal. It seems to work as a kind of sonic exciter, not just an EQ boost. When it's engaged the sound becomes more full and 3-D. It's very pleasant, almost tube like. I've tried replicating the effect using both software and hardware EQ but neither sounds the same.


----------



## henree

Just picked up a Marantz 2220 in mint condition off of craiglist for 125. The guy I bought it from is a former repair guy. He recapped the unit and restored the DC current to factory presets. All the lamp bulbs are new as well. I just love the look of this unit at night. The blue halo really adds to the ambience. Sound is very rich and crisp. This unit sounds really good with older material. I just listened to a remaster of Donna Summer. And her body of work sounds stupendous. This is my first Marantz. This Marantz has a very layered and fluid sound signature. And they make rock and orchestrated music sound like I am in a stadium. Thanks
  again warriorant for putting me on to the Marantz sound.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





henree said:


> Just picked up a Marantz 2220 in mint condition off of craiglist for 125. The guy I bought it from is a former repair guy. He recapped the unit and restored the DC current to factory presets. All the lamp bulbs are new as well. I just love the look of this unit at night. The blue halo really adds to the ambience. Sound is very rich and crisp. This unit sounds really good with older material. I just listened to a remaster of Donna Summer. And her body of work sounds stupendous. This is my first Marantz. This Marantz has a very layered and fluid sound signature. And they make rock and orchestrated music sound like I am in a stadium. Thanks
> again warriorant for putting me on to the Marantz sound.


 
  Beautiful!  Good price.  I offered a guy on Craig s list the same amount for a 2220 and he told me to take my $125 to the Goodwill!   His unit wasn't even mint or recapped.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


sesshin said:


> Regarding the "Loudness" function on the KR-9600 (although this might apply to other brands/models as well), can anyone explain exactly what that function does?
> 
> After listening a while I find I actually prefer the way it sounds with Loudness engaged over the bare signal. It seems to work as a kind of sonic exciter, not just an EQ boost. When it's engaged the sound becomes more full and 3-D. It's very pleasant, almost tube like. I've tried replicating the effect using both software and hardware EQ but neither sounds the same.


 

 It's meant to tilt up the low and high ends of the spectrum (a classic EQ "smile curve") to compensate for perceived losses at the frequency extremes when the stereo is being played at low volumes.
   
  Some systems don't really need it; the speakers (or headphones) will remain relatively flat at low volumes. Other systems might benefit from it if their frequency extension isn't all that great to begin with.
   
  The bass and treble dials will usually give more subtle emphasis in the same range; some better integrateds will even allow you to control the frequency rolloff, to be more accommodating of the actual frequencies the speakers/headphones are rolling off, preventing peaks in the bass or treble that the loudness switch usually imposes.


----------



## RexAeterna

i know most you guys buy these old amps for planers but wondering have any of you guys tried your higher impedance headphones? all i use are 600ohm AKG's(sextetts/DF's) and while i have no issues with my current vintage amps i wonder if anyone here else uses high impedance headphones as well out of curiosity.


----------



## Skylab

Hi Rex,

High impedance headphones work great out of the headphone jacks of mine. The Beyer T1 and my AKG K340 are both excellent out of all of my vintage receivers. The Sansui 9090 and the Beyer T1 is an especially nice combo for whatever reason. The only receiver I don't use the T1 with is the Marantz, because it lacks a 20dB muting feature, and the T1's have such high efficiency/sensitivity that this means that the Marantz has to use the very bottom of it's volume control where the channel tracking is not perfect. So the T1 is better with the Sansui and Pioneer receivers I have. But the performance there is absolutely excellent.

The K340 on the other hand are much less efficient and so they like all the power.


----------



## ardgedee

My Sextett sounds perfectly fine through the headphone jack on the Harmon/Kardon HK670. But what really made the Sextett sound magical was the comparatively low-powered headphone jack of the older, tube-powered Fisher X-101-B -- other headphones didn't flourish as dramatically with the Fisher as the Sextett did.
   
  By comparison, the HE-6 sounded pretty good through the HK670's headphone jack, but through the Fisher's headphone jack they were nothing special at all.
   
  As full-sized headphones go, the Sextett is efficient (94 dB at 1 mW). While it demands accommodation for its high impedance, it'll behave well if it gets it. If the vintage receiver is high-quality in general terms, it's probably going to bring what the Sextett needs; the Sextett isn't the watts-hungry monster the HE-6 is. The K340, in my limited experience, is more fussy about amplifier matching than the Sextett, even while it presents somewhat less of a load to the amp.


----------



## flaming_june

Speaking of which:
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/pioneer-SX1980-reciever-1970-/330584152978?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cf859db92#ht_4067wt_1035
   
  let the bidding war begin.


----------



## sesshin

Nice. The power section on that thing is gargantuan


----------



## RexAeterna

ardgedee said:


> My Sextett sounds perfectly fine through the headphone jack on the Harmon/Kardon HK670. But what really made the Sextett sound magical was the comparatively low-powered headphone jack of the older, tube-powered Fisher X-101-B -- other headphones didn't flourish as dramatically with the Fisher as the Sextett did.
> 
> By comparison, the HE-6 sounded pretty good through the HK670's headphone jack, but through the Fisher's headphone jack they were nothing special at all.
> 
> As full-sized headphones go, the Sextett is efficient (94 dB at 1 mW). While it demands accommodation for its high impedance, it'll behave well if it gets it. If the vintage receiver is high-quality in general terms, it's probably going to bring what the Sextett needs; the Sextett isn't the watts-hungry monster the HE-6 is. The K340, in my limited experience, is more fussy about amplifier matching than the Sextett, even while it presents somewhat less of a load to the amp.




yea. i'm not worried about really on my part amplifier wise cause both my sansui 5000x and hitachi ha-2 amps have an output impedance of 680ohms(due to 680ohm dropping resistors in place) . i was just curious if anyone was using high impedance headphones as well.

i just notice my sextett LP's are only picky with output impedance of the amps while my DF's surprisingly even sound great out my psp but lack serious volume, but they do shine when plugged into an amp close to an output impedance of 600ohms on the DF.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





flaming_june said:


> Speaking of which:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/pioneer-SX1980-reciever-1970-/330584152978?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cf859db92#ht_4067wt_1035
> 
> let the bidding war begin.


 


  I'm tempted to buy it for spare parts since it's local here in the Chicago area.  But will have to see what it goes for considering it is being sold "as-is" for "repair"...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm tempted to buy it for spare parts since it's local here in the Chicago area.  But will have to see what it goes for considering it is being sold "as-is" for "repair"...


 

 No case
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Still nice, i wish it could be my Christmas present (Skylab...)


----------



## flaming_june

I would try to bid for it too but the shipping to Canada is over 300.  Ouch.  Finding one of these locally is next to impossible though.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> Hi Rex,
> 
> High impedance headphones work great out of the headphone jacks of mine. The Beyer T1 and my AKG K340 are both excellent out of all of my vintage receivers. The Sansui 9090 and the Beyer T1 is an especially nice combo for whatever reason. The only receiver I don't use the T1 with is the Marantz, because it lacks a 20dB muting feature, and the T1's have such high efficiency/sensitivity that this means that the Marantz has to use the very bottom of it's volume control where the channel tracking is not perfect. So the T1 is better with the Sansui and Pioneer receivers I have. But the performance there is absolutely excellent.
> 
> The K340 on the other hand are much less efficient and so they like all the power.




thanks for your contribution on your opinion. i wonder have you ever tried other vintage akg headphones with your amps(besides the k340)?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> thanks for your contribution on your opinion. i wonder have you ever tried other vintage akg headphones with your amps(besides the k340)?


 


  I have not had the pleasure, no.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Any one have a suggestion as to the best sounding caps available for recapping?


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> I have not had the pleasure, no.




well if you ever get a chance on ebay. i highly suggest you look into pair of AKG 240DF's. you be amaze at what they can do.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> Any one have a suggestion as to the best sounding caps available for recapping?




i would hit up audiokarma for that. they have some good suggestions and know lot about recapping on these older amps. i just know lot will tell you recapping will only change the sound is if the original caps were running way off of spec but it's debatable as much as it's debatable with everything else in the world of hi-fi audio.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i would hit up audiokarma for that. they have some good suggestions and know lot about recapping on these older amps. i just know lot will tell you recapping will only change the sound is if the original caps were running way off of spec but it's debatable as much as it's debatable with everything else in the world of hi-fi audio.


 
  I'm a big believer that caps change the sound not just because of the age of a cap making it go out of spec and new ones bringing the sound back.  I'm also amazed at the guys who design and make equipment that do not have knowledge of the sonic properties of the components they use in their designs.  For instance here is an example.  Back towards the end of the late 80's I purchased two NYAL Moscode 300 hybrid tube amps. The designer and eng. of these amps lived in the same town I did just 5 minutes away so I called him on the phone and eventually brought the amps over to his house.  I asked him if he could improve them in anyway by modding them somehow.  He was reluctant to do anything but told me he could try some caps from different manufacturers just to appease me.  Crazed with the upgrade bug I left the amps with him.  That monday  at work I got a call from him telling me how he'd changed out the caps and now the midrange was better in this way or that.  Then the next day he called again having changed out some other caps and made improvements to the high freq.  He  was amazed by the changes but not as amazed and stunned as I was that he didn't know this already being the guy who designed and engineered these amps.  Until that day he'd never compared caps in his equipment before, he simply spec'd in what he thought were good caps on paper and left it at that.   To tell you the truth I'm stilled stunned by this.  I wish I still had those amps.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Any one have a suggestion as to the best sounding caps available for recapping?


 


 Audiokarma is indeed a good resource for this type of info. Sign up! I'll see ya there.
   
  There are many different capacitor types that may need replacement.
  The electrolytic style are the ones that always dry up and are usually replaced.
  Old oil-filled, paper and tantalum caps are also famous for going wonky, just not as much.
  There are telltale signs such as leakage, corrosive residue and dry cracking.
  Most can be tested while still in the circuit with the power off.
  One must use correct safety precautions and discharge them first, they may still hold a lethal charge, kind of like a battery would.
   
  As far as 'lytics go, I've had good luck replacing the oldies with audio grade Panasonics and Nichicons.
  For the older tube stuff that use multi-sectional electrolytics, new JJ caps are great.
  There are other multi-sectional brands such as Mallory and Cornell Dubulier, but most of those are NOS.
  I dont trust NOS with 'lytics. They can dry up too while just sitting on the shelf for 20 or 30 years.
  Good sources for a lot of this stuff are: Antique Electronic Supply, Mouser Electronics, Newark Electronics,
  Allied Electronics, and Digikey.


----------



## livewire

As far as _"best sounding caps"_ go, look into the various "boutique" brands.
  They have names such as *"Muse", "Gold Ear"* and *"Black Gate".*
  The last one is now obsolete, but was considered far and away the best of the best.
  Scraps can be found on ebay. Beware anything from the orient or in quantity is prolly fake.
  The prices are also ridiculous if you can find them.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> I'm a big believer that caps change the sound not just because of the age of a cap making it go out of spec and new ones bringing the sound back.  I'm also amazed at the guys who design and make equipment that do not have knowledge of the sonic properties of the components they use in their designs.  For instance here is an example.  Back towards the end of the late 80's I purchased two NYAL Moscode 300 hybrid tube amps. The designer and eng. of these amps lived in the same town I did just 5 minutes away so I called him on the phone and eventually brought the amps over to his house.  I asked him if he could improve them in anyway by modding them somehow.  He was reluctant to do anything but told me he could try some caps from different manufacturers just to appease me.  Crazed with the upgrade bug I left the amps with him.  That monday  at work I got a call from him telling me how he'd changed out the caps and now the midrange was better in this way or that.  Then the next day he called again having changed out some other caps and made improvements to the high freq.  He  was amazed by the changes but not as amazed and stunned as I was that he didn't know this already being the guy who designed and engineered these amps.  Until that day he'd never compared caps in his equipment before, he simply spec'd in what he thought were good caps on paper and left it at that.   To tell you the truth I'm stilled stunned by this.  I wish I still had those amps.




i know caps can improve on the sound(frequency response) and bring the amp up to spec or can upgrade it as well. was just saying lot of times it's cause the older caps are close to their life span and can be running out of spec. read the biggest difference is if you not only recap the large power filter caps but the power amps driver boards as well. most people usually tell me just leave the tuner section alone since really you don't need to worry about that too much.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i know caps can improve on the sound(frequency response) and bring the amp up to spec or can upgrade it as well. was just saying lot of times it's cause the older caps are close to their life span and can be running out of spec. read the biggest difference is if you not only recap the large power filter caps but the power amps driver boards as well. most people usually tell me just leave the tuner section alone since really you don't need to worry about that too much.


 
  For me ever since Alison Steele  "The Night Bird" stop broadcasting there hasn't been much use for a tuner. (Lets see how many old time NY/NJ/CT guys are out there).


----------



## Skylab

We have a local College Public Radio station that broadcasts almost exclusively Jazz - WDCB, and they sound good too.  We also have an excellent classical station in Chicago, WFMT.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> We have a local College Public Radio station that broadcasts almost exclusively Jazz - WDCB, and they sound good too.  We also have an excellent classical station in Chicago, WFMT.


 

 End of the dial I bet, it's the only place left on FM for real stuff


----------



## Skylab

For WDCB, yes.  WFMT is a commercial classical station (one of the few left in the US) - 98.1.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For WDCB, yes.  WFMT is a commercial classical station (one of the few left in the US) - 98.1.


 

 I remember a time before FM.   Call me vintage and sell me on eBay.


----------



## RexAeterna

i have a channel like that. i think cause i'm in jersey my classical/jazz station is 90.1. i listen to it all the time on the my yamaha R-9's tuner. i found a station that plays oldies as well but i forgot what station it was. classical and jazz is the only thing i listen to if it's the radio.


----------



## blur510

is $200 a good price for a marantz 2270? it works (both channels) little static, sounds like deoxit would fix. And a few bulbs out.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> is $200 a good price for a marantz 2270? it works (both channels) little static, sounds like deoxit would fix. And a few bulbs out.


 

 Its about average, if you can get him down to $160 is would be close to a "steal" price


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Its about average, if you can get him down to $160 is would be close to a "steal" price


 


 How's the condition of the wood case? Scratches,etc?


----------



## cifani090

As stated earlier in the thread, i had found an extremely rare Sansui G-33000; well now we also have a close to extremely rare Sansui G-22000. I can only wondering if their was a Sansui G-11000


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> As stated earlier in the thread, i had found an extremely rare Sansui G-33000; well now we also have a close to extremely rare Sansui G-22000. I can only wondering if their was a Sansui G-11000


 


  Wow! I've never been one to draw the line when it comes to audio gear, I mean I've justified every expense I've ever gone through to satisfy the need. But I'm drawing the line on the price of the 33000!  That's just way to much money for a vintage receiver.  It is a beauty though. just went through all the photos of it.  I think I'm changing my mind....sort of like some vintage hypnosis...I really can't look away...some one count to three...


----------



## Kabat

Hey everyone, my first post on Head-Fi and I thought I'd show off my little system:
   

   
  Integrated amp is a Sansui AU-2200 I managed to snag for $50, paired with a ~90's Aiwa CD player and Sennheiser 555's. Not nearly as impressive as many of the vintage units in this thread, but it sounds pretty good to me. Plus it gives me a jumping off point for "upgrades".


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kabat said:


> Hey everyone, my first post on Head-Fi and I thought I'd show off my little system:
> 
> 
> 
> Integrated amp is a Sansui AU-2200 I managed to snag for $50, paired with a ~90's Aiwa CD player and Sennheiser 555's. Not nearly as impressive as many of the vintage units in this thread, but it sounds pretty good to me. Plus it gives me a jumping off point for "upgrades".


 

 Looks great.


----------



## log0

Very nice looking amp!
   
  I'm in the market for an amplifier and instead of going the popular route of buying something new with great value like the Lyr, I've been considering a vintage amp which I also believe can provide great value with respect to doubling as a headphone amp and speaker amp. I've been able to track down a restored Marantz 2270 that has been serviced about a month ago, the asking price is $375. From what I've seen that is a pretty good deal! I've done a fair bit of research on the amp but I wanted to check with the posters in this thread to keep me educated. I've never bought a vintage amp before. I'm mainly looking to pair it with LCD-2s and hook it up to a Reference One source and play digital audio, would this be a good match? What about the place where they are manufactured? I've read something along the lines that the ones built in Sun Valley California have better parts than those built in Japan? What else should I look for? What should I ask? I appreciate your responses.


----------



## Skylab

That is a fair price for a 2270 IMO *if* the unit is in very good cosmetic shape and assuming the service performed yielded 100% functionality.  If it comes in the WC-22 wood case then it would be a bargain as those go for $120+ all by themselves.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





kabat said:


> Hey everyone, my first post on Head-Fi and I thought I'd show off my little system:
> 
> 
> 
> Integrated amp is a Sansui AU-2200 I managed to snag for $50, paired with a ~90's Aiwa CD player and Sennheiser 555's. Not nearly as impressive as many of the vintage units in this thread, but it sounds pretty good to me. Plus it gives me a jumping off point for "upgrades".


 

  
  Looks like the shelf is barely strong enough to hold them up.  You do need a sturdy stand for the vintage stuff.


----------



## log0

Some pics below. Looks pretty clean to me. I don't think this is the case you were talking about.
  What is your take on the pairing of the 2270 with the LCD-2? I've read that some considered it dark.


----------



## Skylab

Mine is the 2275, but I do prefer it with the HE-6 over the LCD-2, yes.  I like the LCD-2 better on the Pioneers.
   
  And yes, the WC-22 wood case is a real wood case that fits over the whole unit.  Below is my 2275 in a WC-22 reproduction (not the original, but concept is the same):


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> As stated earlier in the thread, i had found an extremely rare Sansui G-33000; well now we also have a close to extremely rare Sansui G-22000. I can only wondering if their was a Sansui G-11000


 


  Sorry, could I ask where you found Big G? I think around $1500 is a fair price for G-33000 and $1k for G-22000. Heck, the price one eBay is over $4k for a nice G-33000.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I am drooling for the big G!!!


----------



## Kabat

Quote:


scompton said:


> Looks like the shelf is barely strong enough to hold them up.  You do need a sturdy stand for the vintage stuff.


 

 The warp you're seeing is just from the camera lens, but I'm working on a nice dedicated shelf that'll handle the weight much better.


----------



## log0

Beautiful looking amp Sklyab. I'm very tempted to go and give the  2270 listen, it's about an hour drive. Still, the primary purpose of whatever amp I'm going to buy is to drive LCD-2s. Hopefully down the road when I upgrade to some better speakers I can use whatever amp I buy to drive them as well. This seems like much more of a value than something like the Lyr, although I imagine they would sound quite different and that the Marantz would have some issues being 30+ years old. I also have some Pioneer SX-1010s in the area that seem to be in pretty bad shape, don't know how much a service can do for the amp. I've even been tempted to throw down a chunk of change on a beautiful Pioneer SX-1980 and have even considering buying your immaculate Leben CS300XS. Decisions, decisions...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is a fair price for a 2270 IMO *if* the unit is in very good cosmetic shape and assuming the service performed yielded 100% functionality.  If it comes in the WC-22 wood case then it would be a bargain as those go for $120+ all by themselves.


 

 Skylab... i traded and i got a Sansui AU-999 with no wood case. Do you know of any manuals that could have the configuration of the case so that i could have one made? Also does anyone own a Sansui TU-999, and how do you like it? (i'd like to buy one)


----------



## blur510

I just got my SX-1010 back from getting a refreshing, and I really love the sound. It is very engaging.  The instruments are very detailed the soundstage is great.  Thanks to everyone on this thread, I really appreciate all the info.  I will probably stop looking at receivers for now.  Until the next upgrade bites..


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats on the 1010. I think the 1010 is one of the best kept secrets on here. Remember, it is the "original" monster receiver and the piece that started the whole race to the biggest and baddest. People over at audiokarma says the same thing. There are some hardcore pioneer lovers that owns 1280, 1250, 1050 along with the 1010(yes all of them). And about half of the impressions I read prefers it. It was the vintage pioneer thread that convinced me to jump on the 1010. I wish I had some of those other sx monsters to compare it with. But it's one clean sounding amp; very airy with a nice wide soundstage. Not as deep as my fisher, but much wider. Maybe even a little wider than my kr-9600. My impressions basically mirrors yours. I think it's neutrality at it's best. It dead neutral with no flavoring at all. That's definitely different from other vintage receivers I've listened to. Were you surprised as I was about how powerful the headphone amp is.


----------



## blur510

Yes it is very neutral, and very powerful. There are a lot of times when I wonder how the other receivers would sound, well I have a Sansui G7000 and it is also powerful but also more lush/warm. 
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Congrats on the 1010. I think the 1010 is one of the best kept secrets on here. Remember, it is the "original" monster receiver and the piece that started the whole race to the biggest and baddest. People over at audiokarma says the same thing. There are some hardcore pioneer lovers that owns 1280, 1250, 1050 along with the 1010(yes all of them). And about half of the impressions I read prefers it. zIt was the vintage pioneer thread that convinced me to jump on the 1010. I wish I had some of those other sx monsters to compare it with. But it's one clean sounding amp; very airy with a nice wide soundstage. Not as deep as my fisher, but much wider. Maybe even a little wider than my kr-9600. My impressions basically mirrors yours. I think it's neutrality at it's best. It dead neutral with no flavoring at all. That's definitely different from other vintage receivers I've listened to. Were you surprised as I was about how powerful the headphone amp is.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> I just got my SX-1010 back from getting a refreshing, and I really love the sound. It is very engaging.  The instruments are very detailed the soundstage is great.  Thanks to everyone on this thread, I really appreciate all the info.  I will probably stop looking at receivers for now.  Until the next upgrade bites..


 


 Glad you like it. I love mine. I was gonna go into detail, but it seems that moodyrn has got that covered. Enjoy!


----------



## dukja

I have been listening to my Pioneer SX950 for a few days now with HE-6 and my MA BR3.  The bass was punchy and generous, and mid/high was smooth.  However, I seems to find that its SQ gets clearer after an hour or so.  The clarity was my only major complain to it. 
   
  After chatting with some AKers, I decided to check the bias and idle current.  And they seems to be quite off.  That may be the hint of problem.  I plan to do some recap and transistor replacement.  Now I am hopeful that the refreshed 950 will be raised to anther level. 
   
  I guess what I try to say is: check with your gear and they may be able to perform even better.


----------



## Skylab

No question it is very important to check the bias.  I bought a used Sansui 9090 which sounded very slow and muddy.  I cleaned it and adjusted the Bias and it sounded like a new amp.


----------



## dukja

I just checked and reset the bias and idle voltage of my SX-950.  I can hear some improvement.  The high is crispier and bass is snappier and punchier.  A good first step.  I got the BOM for total recap but may only work on the PSU and power am first.  For the big power cap, people at AK seems to suggest replace it (total recap).  I wonder if anyone has done it here.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Philimon

Pioneer SX1280 on local Craigslist. Pretty... If I hadn't just bought that Marantz, then I would really be tempted.:
  http://reno.craigslist.org/ele/2485143143.html


----------



## Skylab

That is a pretty nice price in a sweet receiver! Local is always the best way to go on the big heavy monsters.


----------



## cifani090

Their is a 1250 on my craigslist down to $450 from $500. It needs a bit of work, which i dont know how to do


----------



## log0

I'd love to learn how to service these babies. They are truly a work of art.
   
  On another note, yesterday I had the opportunity to demo a Marantz 2270 with LCD-2s. I brought a couple of CD's I'm familiar with: Jazz at the Pawnshop, Patricia Barber - Cafe Blue, Jimi Hendrix - Ultimate Experience, Miles Davis - Kind of Blue. The receiver was in excellent shape and it drove some old Pioneer speakers very well. Hendrix sounded horrible with the LCD-2s, too much muddy bass but it could be partially the recording. All this was done via a portable Phillips CD player that I'm sure wasn't the best source either. There was also an issue with the headphone jack if you moved the cable too much you would hear scratching and lose the left or right channel.
   
  The other Jazz I brought sounded great, a little warm but too bassy. I ended up turning down the "bass" and "mids" knobs down a notch or two. I'm not going to lie, I was expecting more. I've heard these songs out of my current Pioneer VSX-1019AHK receiver (typical 7.1 receiver you can get at Best Buy) and didn't think there was a discernible difference to go crazy over. This could have been because the Marantz hasn't been serviced in 30+ years. The seller wanted $325, I only felt comfortable paying $250. If I bought it I knew I'd have to service it. I have my eyes out on a Pioneer SX-1250 that I would prefer to spend my money on, hopefully that sounds better.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah that's the thing about vintage gear - you cannot judge based on one sample, because you have no idea what condition it's in, usually. But of the sound of that one did not do it for you, definitely good you did not buy it! Too many fish in the sea. 

As mentioned, I prefer the HE-6 with my Marantz but the LCD-2 with the Pioneers, since the relative tonal balances work better together.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that's the thing about vintage gear - you cannot judge based on one sample, because you have no idea what condition it's in, usually. But of the sound of that one did not do it for you, definitely good you did not buy it! Too many fish in the sea.
> 
> As mentioned, I prefer the HE-6 with my Marantz but the LCD-2 with the Pioneers, since the relative tonal balances work better together.


 

 Yup, I remember you mentioning the Pioneer worked better with the LCD-2 than the Marantz, now I heard it and know it. Can't wait to get a Pioneer, one just came up on Craigslist, a SX-828 in mint condition for $250. I may go and give it listen, even though I still want to hunt down a SX-1250. The face on the SX-828 is a little different, looks more like the Marantz.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that's the thing about vintage gear - you cannot judge based on one sample, because you have no idea what condition it's in, usually. But of the sound of that one did not do it for you, definitely good you did not buy it! Too many fish in the sea.
> 
> As mentioned, I prefer the HE-6 with my Marantz but the LCD-2 with the Pioneers, since the relative tonal balances work better together.


 


  I'm hooked on the looks.  Those gems from the seventies just look so sweet.  Usually with audio gear I don't have any preference for looks, black or silver is a decision that's too much for me,  but with the vintage stuff I really marvel at the aesthetics.


----------



## sesshin

I can say that the LCD-2 / Kenwood combo is definitely on the warm side while still being extremely punchy. This is compared to two other modern receivers (Denon 2311, HK 3490) and ss HPA, which are all just a little bit more flat and sterile in comparison.
   
  I would like to compare the KR-9600 side by side with a Pioneer monster to see which has better synergy. Hoping to come across a good deal on CL I can pick up for giggles then pass on whichever I don't prefer.


----------



## moodyrn

Well I don't have the lcd-2 but, I have compared the sx1010 and kr-9600 with my he-6. The sx1010 is extremely neutral. It doesn't hide anything or smooth over anything. The kr-9600 is a tad smooth, still with plenty of dynamics and punch, and just a touch on the warm side. Technically they both are on the same playing field. So with my he-6 being just a tad bright, they have better synergy with the kenny. With the kenny they go from sounding a little bright to sounding completely natural. So this and based on what Skylab says with his lcd-2 on his pioneer vs (warmer) marantz, I would say the pioneer and lcd-2 should go very well together.


----------



## sesshin

I need to track down one of those 1010s. That's about the only Pioneer I can stand the looks of.


----------



## sesshin

On a side note, this vintage audio thing sure does get frustrating at times. I'm so used to being able to just go out and buy whatever it is I want when it comes to audio gear. But with the older stuff it's such a scavenger hunt. You might be able to find what you want. Maybe. If the gods are smiling. But most likely you'll find something else that you weren't looking for that might be just as good. Or better. Or worse. Who knows.

 I can totally see now why guys end up with gobs of vintage equipment. But I guess the hunt is part of the appeal of it all.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed - you need to enjoy the hunt! That's a part of the fun! I am more into the post-hunt enjoyment than the hunt itself, but the hunt is still fun. I enjoy the whole thing, from research to hunt to arrival to long-term enjoyment. Right now I am listening to a reel to reel tape of "Live Dead" on my Teac X-10R via my Pioneer SX-1980 and HPM-100 speakers. And just reveling in it


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Yup, I remember you mentioning the Pioneer worked better with the LCD-2 than the Marantz, now I heard it and know it. Can't wait to get a Pioneer, one just came up on Craigslist, a SX-828 in mint condition for $250. I may go and give it listen, even though I still want to hunt down a SX-1250. The face on the SX-828 is a little different, looks more like the Marantz.


 
  I don't have LCD-2, but i can chime in for the Pioneer receivers. I have SX-1250 and SX-727. Although I didn't recap them. they are in minty condition. There is big difference in sound. SX-727 is warmer, and SX-1250 is quicker and airy. I do think 828 will sound warm too, since everyone on AK says pionny receiver before SX-x50 is warmer, more tube like. With my Q701, I like 727 more than 1250.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> I need to track down one of those 1010s. That's about the only Pioneer I can stand the looks of.


 

 Why not go for Pioneer SA-9100? IMHO, 9100 will sound better than 1010 other than 45wpc less. And I think it looks very elegant!
  Here are SA-9100 and TX-9100


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Why not go for Pioneer SA-9100? IMHO, 9100 will sound better than 1010 other than 45wpc less. And I think it looks very elegant!
> Here are SA-9100 and TX-9100


 

 Looks minty fresh


----------



## Meewoo

Yes, they are well taken care of by the original owner. But the left channel of amp has hiss which gets worse as time goes by. I googled and guess it may have bad resistor or transister in pre-amp board. Anyway, i will have it restored in the near future.
   
  By the way, are anyone interested this http://cgi.ebay.com/rotel-rx-1603-vintage-receiver-/230643167475?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35b36770f3? It's the biggest receiver of Rotel, but it's out of my budget.


----------



## cifani090

Some guy on my craigslist a few months back had one of those for sale. That one of ebay is too pricy


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Some guy on my craigslist a few months back had one of those for sale. That one of ebay is too pricy


 

 Wow, you live in a audiophile dream land!! You can find Sansui big G and biggest Rotel. I wish I am your neighbor!!


----------



## log0

All of this equipment you guys are posting pics of is gorgeous!
   
  Something else I noticed is that McIntosh amplifiers are not mentioned much. I know this is because the McIntosh amps typically do not come with a headphone output. However, there are a couple that do and I'm wondering what they would sound like. The only way to find out is to buy it or hope someone on the forums has posted something about it's sound signature.
   
  For example, there is a McIntosh MC2255 on the Audiogon that is listing for $1850, this has a headphone output. Has anyone heard it? I've also asked the seller if the amplifier has ever been inspected or serviced to which he replied no but that McIntosh solid state amps seldom need to be serviced. From what I've read about the McIntosh solid state amps this is true for the most part. Which makes me wonder, why with Pioneers is recapping and restoration something that must almost always take place in order to bring out the receiver's true potential whereas McIntosh amps are built like tanks? Probably because the Pioneers were built in the 70's and this particular McIntosh amp I believe was built in the 80's. Or maybe my statement is wrong. Could this be because Pioneers are receivers instead dedicated amplifiers?
   
  How about an opinion on a SX-1980 vs a MC2255? Both have headphone jacks and output 250+ watts (not sure if the McIntosh is RMS). Both go for about the same price ($1800-$2500). Both are considered time pieces and top of the line for the era in which they were made. I'd love to hear this A/B. I can't imagine that anyone would have any experience comparing these two receivers based on headphones but I'd love to get some perspective on speaker performance. Also the MC2255 requires a preamp which could change the sound signature. Maybe the folks on audiokarma would know better, but I feel more at home with this community. 
   
  I love the idea of purchasing a vintage receiver/amp even though you're taking the chance that something may be wrong with it, because some models are so popular that there are experts for servicing the parts that can go wrong (for example, the SX-1250 and the like). As is proof with all your pictures they are art pieces of a golden age of audio electronics.


----------



## Skylab

That Big Mac is absolutely beautiful. I think the reason McIntosh doesn't get mentioned much is that it tends to be very expensive. McIntosh stuff tended to always be pretty valued by collectors. That's certainly why I have never ventured there. 

The only piece of vintage gear I paid big money for was the SX-1980. And I wouldn't have done that if it hadn't been completely serviced, with receipt. That way I knew where to go if I had any issue. Even that MC2255 on Agon is almost $2K and it is made clear the seller provides zero warranty. That's a lot to spend unless you knew someone local who could fix any issues.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> All of this equipment you guys are posting pics of is gorgeous!
> 
> Something else I noticed is that McIntosh amplifiers are not mentioned much. I know this is because the McIntosh amps typically do not come with a headphone output. However, there are a couple that do and I'm wondering what they would sound like. The only way to find out is to buy it or hope someone on the forums has posted something about it's sound signature.


 
  Why people buy vintage stuff is mystery for me too, look how the price of vintage stuff inflate in 4-6 years. Orion book price of vintage stuff is just a joke now.
  But one thing is certain, the vintage stuff gives you top performance price ratio. Since (vintage) McIntosh is always expensive, it usually doesn't have the performance price ratio. With $1500 at hand, you can buy a good tube headphone amp which may suit you better than McIntosh.  And here, most of us are seeking headphone amp alternative which can give us big bang, McIntosh is totally ignored.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Why people buy vintage stuff is mystery for me too, look how the price of vintage stuff inflate in 4-6 years. Orion book price of vintage stuff is just a joke now.
> But one thing is certain, the vintage stuff gives you top performance price ratio. Since (vintage) McIntosh is always expensive, it usually doesn't have the performance price ratio. With $1500 at hand, you can buy a good tube headphone amp which may suit you better than McIntosh.  And here, most of us are seeking headphone amp alternative which can give us big bang, McIntosh is totally ignored.


 

 Vintage stuff is just so much cooler. It was made in an era of when people cared about they were making, with turns out to be better build quality. That was also a time when *everything *was built in America. Vintage McIntosh stuff is not always expensive, their are mono-blocks that sell for around $500. As far a headphone amps, a nice looking vintage Marantz will do the job well (ask Skylab) and IMO they look very similar to the McInotosh's


----------



## Meewoo

Yes, Skylab, Scottie, moodyrn and other members here make it clear that vintage stuff can be a good headphone amp alternative. And much more, it's cheaper, cooler. But if vintage stuff doesn't perform well, we won't buy it.
  I know some McIntosh is not always expensive, but are they big performers?  We didn't buy all vintage stuff, we just pick the gems.


----------



## log0

Thanks for the responses guys. I've always wanted a McIntosh amp since I first heard one (although it was a tube) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  The primary purpose of whatever amp I buy now will be to drive LCD-2s, and it seems the preference of most head-fi'ers with vintage gear that Pioneer/Marantz is the best bang for the buck. I can't deny that they look absolutely cool. But McIntosh's are pretty sweet looking with their signature voltage meters as well, not to mention they may do a more admirable job of driving speakers.
   
  Skylab - while I was reading through this thread I saw that you were getting a new amplifier for your big B&W's. I know your a tube guys so I'm wondering if you had the chance to hear McIntosh's flagship tube amp, the MC2301. It's a 300W monoblock tube. I know you kicked out some 200 watt solid state because they couldn't produce enough juice for the big B&Ws. If you have the opportunity to demo this amp I would recommend it.
   
  Also, I found another piece of vintage gear in my area. The Luxman R 1120 (not the "a" version). I've read on audiokarma that some people prefer this sound more than the Marantz and the Pioneer. Has anyone had experience with this bad boy?
   
  On another note, I'm a little concerned with how much it costs to service one of these vintage amps and the expertise to do so. I live in Fort Lauderdale and I don't know of any place down here where I can get vintage gear serviced. However if you look on eBay you see people selling their services to revamp your amp. For example, look at this listing. This person wants close to $500 to service a SX-1250. I don't know much about amps, but after I read through his long and detailed description about what goes into this particular service, I wonder if it is all necessary? And I wonder if those who are selling "serviced" receivers have had this level of thoroughness done? If so, I think the $600 Skylab paid for his already serviced SX-1250 was a steal. I'm considering spending more than that for just the 1250 in original condition on eBay as that seems to be the going rate!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Also, I found another piece of vintage gear in my area. The Luxman R 1120 (not the "a" version). I've read on audiokarma that some people prefer this sound more than the Marantz and the Pioneer. Has anyone had experience with this bad boy?


 

 Man, if it's under $400, go for it. I have 1120a (non-A version has two power transfomer), it's the best receiver in my collection. It has silk-smooth warm sound, and it also has the biggest sound stage. Not to mention the beautiful rose wood case.
   
  Oh, don't trust the serviced stuff on eBay too much,!! Placing bulb and changing few caps can be titled as serviced. I lean to buy an stocked one and let the gurus in AK do service.


----------



## Skylab

I was really just thinking very casually about a new amp for the big B&Ws. I haven't done anything about it. The Sunfire works well and sounds good. But no doubt that if I do, McIntosh is going to be at the very top of the potential list.

The thing about getting vintage gear "serviced" is knowing what they are going to do, and deciding what level of work you want done. My SX-1250 was a cleaning, biasing, and replacing a few out of spec parts, as well as a tuner alignment. My SX-1980 was more than that - it was a "complete restoration" - it was the preceding plus a total recap except for the main power/filter caps, and a total rebuild of the sometimes problematic power supply board. I received the receipt from the place that did it - $550 was the cost. This was why I thought $1,800 was a "steal" for that unit...because it had already had all that work done.

I also bought my Marantz 2275 and Sansui 9090DB with varying levels of restoration - the 2275 was more a partial, but the 9090B was also a complete recap/rebuild job. Both of those also had LED conversions done for the lamps which I really like.

For me I like to have things more or less trouble free. But it does involve spending more money. I still have the Optonica integrated I bought for $90, which was dirt cheap and it is a pretty amazing unit in and of itself. Not using it, really, though, since I have a ton of gear around here. I'm really not using the SX-1250 right now since the 1980 arrived, but I am never selling the 1250. I want to keep them both


----------



## log0

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Man, if it's under $400, go for it. I have 1120a (non-A version has two power transfomer), it's the best receiver in my collection. It has silk-smooth warm sound, and it also has the biggest sound stage. Not to mention the beautiful rose wood case.
> 
> Oh, don't trust the serviced stuff on eBay too much,!! Placing bulb and changing few caps can be titled as serviced. I lean to buy an stocked one and let the gurus in AK do service.


 

 Yes from what I've read the Luxman does have a smooth sound. I fear buying it because I think it will have to be serviced and I don't know anyone in my area that can do this work, let alone find someone on the internet. I did not know until you mentioned it that audiokarma has people who can do the service for you. It's about time I sign up for that site. Also, the description on craigslist mentions that the "volume control  is a little scratchy and needs to be cleaned out". I'm guessing that means that the physical action of moving the volume knob feels like it's scratching against something and that it needs to be cleaned? Or that the changing the volume results in a scratchy sound in the speakers? Guess I'll have to ask. Thanks for your input. If I give it a demo I'll post my impressions.
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was really just thinking very casually about a new amp for the big B&Ws. I haven't done anything about it. The Sunfire works well and sounds good. But no doubt that if I do, McIntosh is going to be at the very top of the potential list.
> 
> The thing about getting vintage gear "serviced" is knowing what they are going to do, and deciding what level of work you want done. My SX-1250 was a cleaning, biasing, and replacing a few out of spec parts, as well as a tuner alignment. My SX-1980 was more than that - it was a "complete restoration" - it was the preceding plus a total recap except for the main power/filter caps, and a total rebuild of the sometimes problematic power supply board. I received the receipt from the place that did it - $550 was the cost. This was why I thought $1,800 was a "steal" for that unit...because it had already had all that work done.
> 
> ...


 


  I cannot deny that I've also been considering purchasing an SX-1980. There is one on Audiogon and I submitted an offer much like what you paid for yours and got rejected. For the SX-1980 on Audiogon the seller mentions having replaced all 4 large caps and having half of the other caps were replaced (why not do them all?). It has been cleaned with DeOxit and Gold Fader Lube as well.
   
  I'm considering buying an un-restored SX-1250 for around $600 and then getting it serviced for about $500 for a total of $1100. Or I can purchase this "serviced" SX-1980 for around $2000. Quite a significant increase. Do you think there is a discernible difference between the two in terms of headphone performance to warrant one over the other? What about sound signature? I know you mentioned preferring the 1980 with the LCD-2s, but if I am purchasing the 1980 for headphones that get's rid of the whole value proposition that comes with purchasing vintage gear, and gets more into the collectable side of things. Looking at the dimensions of the two, it seems they share the same dimensions except the 1980 is a bit taller and heavier. I noticed as well the 1250 has a THD of .1 while the 1980 has a THD of .003.


----------



## Skylab

Honestly, just for headphone use, I would probably go with the SX-1250. I use my SX-1980 more for speakers than for headphones. It's awesome for headphones, for sure, but totally overkill. It's actually kinda overkill period, but in such a glorious way. Agai, in all candor, ponying up for the SX-1980 is as much about wanting to own one than it is the sensibility of the thing. It's a stellar performer to be sure, and in many ways it's a bargain even in the $2K price range if it's been serviced, given that is what it sold for 30 years ago.

But the 1250 sounds just as good, except for the tuner and the phono preamp,where the 1980 is clearly better. Unless you really need the extra 110 watts per channel, or are into the idea of owning the TOTL receiver just because, then go with the 1250. Heck for the LCD-2 an SX-1050 would also be great.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Yes from what I've read the Luxman does have a smooth sound. I fear buying it because I think it will have to be serviced and I don't know anyone in my area that can do this work, let alone find someone on the internet. I did not know until you mentioned it that audiokarma has people who can do the service for you. It's about time I sign up for that site. Also, the description on craigslist mentions that the "volume control  is a little scratchy and needs to be cleaned out". I'm guessing that means that the physical action of moving the volume knob feels like it's scratching against something and that it needs to be cleaned? Or that the changing the volume results in a scratchy sound in the speakers? Guess I'll have to ask. Thanks for your input. If I give it a demo I'll post my impressions.


 
   
  "volume control  is a little scratchy and needs to be cleaned out" usually means that when you turn the knob around, you will here scratchy sound from speakers or headphone. It will normally be solved by deoxide the pot of volume control.(Deoxide is routine for vintage stuff, you can find guide in AK) Yes, some guru in AK provide service but usually has long waiting list.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Vintage stuff is just so much cooler. It was made in an era of when people cared about they were making, with turns out to be better build quality. That was also a time when *everything *was built in America. Vintage McIntosh stuff is not always expensive, their are mono-blocks that sell for around $500. As far a headphone amps, a nice looking vintage Marantz will do the job well (ask Skylab) and IMO they look very similar to the McInotosh's


 
  I have to agree the units are cool. They come from a unique time before the IC started to take away knob real estate turning everything into a menu driven world.   Reminds me of cars from that era also.  You could work on them. You open the hood and there was the engine ready to get an oil change , new plugs, or a carburetor adjustment with a screw driver. Not like the ship in a bottle complex engines of today.  Also it seems that these units were made with the idea to last and be something back then.  There was none of that buy it and through it away one day paradigm.    I'm starting to collect vintage gear just as pieces to have not for any sound price performance.  I keep seeing an entire bookcase in my house that going to be filled with vintage receivers just as things to look and marvel at.  I'll route them all from one source perhaps an ipod so I can plug in some cans once in a while just to test drive and sample each one over the course of an evening.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have to agree the units are cool. They come from a unique time before the IC started to take away knob real estate turning everything into a menu driven world.   Reminds me of cars from that era also.  You could work on them. You open the hood and there was the engine ready to get an oil change , new plugs, or a carburetor adjustment with a screw driver. Not like the ship in a bottle complex engines of today.  Also it seems that these units were made with the idea to last and be something back then.  There was none of that buy it and through it away one day paradigm.    I'm starting to collect vintage gear just as pieces to have not for any sound price performance.  I keep *seeing an entire bookcase in my house that going to be filled with vintage receivers just as things to look and marvel at*.  I'll route them all from one source perhaps an ipod so I can plug in some cans once in a while just to test drive and sample each one over the course of an evening.


 

 Thats very similar to me? Im not sure about your age, but me being 15, i have 3 vintage amps (2 receivers (Kenwood 9000GX, and a Onkyo 4500(FS, PM if interested)and one intergrated amp (Sansui AU-999)(need to buy a wood case) and only the Kenwood is it use lol. The Sansui i plan on having hooked up to another pair of speakers when i get a chance to buy some wall speakers or something that i can hook onto my wall above the amps for AM/FM listening. Im looking for a TU-999 that matches with my intergrated and that will be used for that. A few family members wonder what im going to do with all of them, but i look at them as investments (kinda). Just imagine though, having a rare amp like my Kenwood 9000GX, or a friend of mine that has a Kenwood 11000GX or even the Pioneer 1280 and controlling their market value because you have a garage full of all of them


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Thats very similar to me? Im not sure about your age, but me being 15, i have 3 vintage amps (2 receivers (Kenwood 9000GX, and a Onkyo 4500(FS, PM if interested)and one intergrated amp (Sansui AU-999)(need to buy a wood case) and only the Kenwood is it use lol. The Sansui i plan on having hooked up to another pair of speakers when i get a chance to buy some wall speakers or something that i can hook onto my wall above the amps for AM/FM listening. Im looking for a TU-999 that matches with my intergrated and that will be used for that. A few family members wonder what im going to do with all of them, but i look at them as investments (kinda). Just imagine though, having a rare amp like my Kenwood 9000GX, or a friend of mine that has a Kenwood 11000GX or even the Pioneer 1280 and controlling their market value because you have a garage full of all of them


 
  Well lets see I was your age back in 1971, I guess I'm from the vintage era.  I can still see the glow of a Kenwood receiver like a beacon of coolness through the corridors of time.


----------



## Skylab

I was 15 in 1981. I got into hi-fi big time at 12 when my Dad built a heath kit amp with me. I read Stereo Review religiously and drooled big time over the SX-1980 when it came out. One reason it is so fun for me to have one now


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well lets see I was your age back in 1971, I guess I'm from the vintage era.  I can still see the glow of a Kenwood receiver like a beacon of coolness through the corridors of time.


 

 For some reason, i have a heart for the Kenwoods? The Marantz are cool, just abit overpriced IMO.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was 15 in 1981. I got into hi-fi big time at 12 when my Dad built a heath kit amp with me. I read Stereo Review religiously and drooled big time over the SX-1980 when it came out. One reason it is so fun for me to have one now


 

 In 1981 I was already enslaved for a year in editing video and audio for broadcast TV where I remained for another 2.5 decades till I broke free. A year later in 82 I had my first pair of full range Maggies, four panels each the size of a door. Non believers would make endless fun of me when they saw them dominate the room.  
   
  So the SX-1980 is a long time love.  You still have that Heath Kit amp?  Is Stereo Review still around?


----------



## cifani090

Skylab, since you own the HPM-100, how do you think the HPM-500's compare??? Theirs a pair on my craigslist...


----------



## TruBrew

Sorry if this is a bit off topic. WarriorAnt, have you heard the currently available single pannel Maggies? I used to own a pair of MG/12's and loved them. I will eventually own another Pair of Maggies. They no longer make the large panels, but always wondered how they sounded. They show up on Audiogon, but I was always worried about servicing, plus I don't have the space. I would however consider them in the future. 
   
  Skylab, you mention the SX-1980 has a better tuner. Does anyone know of an affordable tuner that could best the one in my SX-950. I  don't listen to a lot of radio, but would like to be able to plug one into my other amps. I can of coure split the preamp out of my pioneer and send it to my other amps as well.


----------



## cifani090

Looks like i just bought some Pioneer CS-77A's


----------



## henree

Anyone hear the Sansui 4000? I can get one for 100 locally.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> Sorry if this is a bit off topic. WarriorAnt, have you heard the currently available single pannel Maggies? I used to own a pair of MG/12's and loved them. I will eventually own another Pair of Maggies. They no longer make the large panels, but always wondered how they sounded. They show up on Audiogon, but I was always worried about servicing, plus I don't have the space. I would however consider them in the future.
> 
> Skylab, you mention the SX-1980 has a better tuner. Does anyone know of an affordable tuner that could best the one in my SX-950. I  don't listen to a lot of radio, but would like to be able to plug one into my other amps. I can of coure split the preamp out of my pioneer and send it to my other amps as well.


 

 No I have not heard the currently available single panel Maggies but I have a friend who has them and he really likes them.  I think Magnepan stayed in the audiophile game with their panels and didn't just go home theater the way Martin Logan did.  So the Maggies are probably better than ever. I wouldn't recommend ever buying used maggies though.  Those panels may be susceptible to aging in terms of flexibility and such plus it takes a lot of current to drive them and if you were insane like I was you could easily torch a panel.  I've killed my share of tweeters also, before the tweeter fuse could kick in.  But that was some time ago.   You got to have room for them though.  The bigger the model the more room you need. They need to breath in order to come to life and work their magic.


----------



## TruBrew

I When I owned them I had plenty of power. Two Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks. 1000watts at 4ohms, class A/B. I had the MG/12's 3 feet off the walls. That was the minimum recommendation I remember reading at the time, plus it was about all I could afford. I got a good deal on a pair of Thiel 1.2's. After having both pairs, my family much preferred the form factor of the Thiels, and I was semi forced to sell the Maggies. I have since sold the amps as well. Didn't need that much power anymore. They were the best speaker I had ever heard. They could have had more detail, but the spaciousness was to die for. I could never listen to them at the levels I wanted anyway,which isn't that loud. I miss the Maggies, but I know we will be together again, so it is not the end of the world. I still have the 1.2's but never use them. Headphones are it for the foreseeable. When I buy a house that may change, but even if it does, I wont get rid of all my great headphone gear.


----------



## Skylab

warriorant said:


> In 1981 I was already enslaved for a year in editing video and audio for broadcast TV where I remained for another 2.5 decades till I broke free. A year later in 82 I had my first pair of full range Maggies, four panels each the size of a door. Non believers would make endless fun of me when they saw them dominate the room.
> 
> So the SX-1980 is a long time love.  You still have that Heath Kit amp?  Is Stereo Review still around?


I do still have the Heathkit! And it still works. An AA-1219 integrated. Just a little 15wpc job, but recently tried it with headphones and it did a pretty credible job!

What is now "Sound and Vision" magazine is what used to be "Stereo Review". I still subscribe, but it's not nearly as good as Stereophile or The Absolute Sound.



cifani090 said:


> Skylab, since you own the HPM-100, how do you think the HPM-500's compare??? Theirs a pair on my craigslist...


never heard the HPM-500's, but looks like you bought some CS series Pioneers. Let us know what you think.


trubrew said:


> Skylab, you mention the SX-1980 has a better tuner. Does anyone know of an affordable tuner that could best the one in my SX-950. I  don't listen to a lot of radio, but would like to be able to plug one into my other amps. I can of coure split the preamp out of my pioneer and send it to my other amps as well.



Forgive me if you know this, but the most important thing to good sounding radio is a good ANTENNA. The tuner in the 950 should be plenty good if it is working. But getting clear reception is important. Go to Radio Shack and buy a pair of rabbit ears if you can find them. And then you can more easily experiment with positioning (which will vary from station to station). 

Also you should send the tape out of the 950 to your other amps in order to use the 950's tuner, unless you truly also wanted to use the 950 as a preamp as well (meaning to use it's volume control).


----------



## BmWr75

Sansui 7000, Pioneer SX-1010 and Kenwood KR-9050 (just revived with a new power switch)


----------



## TruBrew

Thanks for letting me know the tape out would work. I have no need for full preamp controls. The antenna on the 950 seemed to do a fine job, and the tuner was a good shape. Whenever I get my Pioneer back I will do some radio listening, maybe experiment with a different antenna. I know very little about tuners, so thanks for the tips.


----------



## Ultrainferno

I can get a Marantz 1060 for $35 but I couldn't find much about headphones & this amp
  But for $35, how bad can it be, right?


----------



## Skylab

BmWr75, nice looking stuff!

Ultra inferno if thenstuff works, it will be worth $35 just for the entertainment value of messing with it.


----------



## BmWr75

Fisher X-101C
   
  Just finished up replacing all the electrolytic caps, installed Russian PIO caps in the coupling positions and replaced the cathode biasing resistors.  Sounds great with headphones!!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Fisher X-101C
> 
> Just finished up replacing all the electrolytic caps, installed Russian PIO caps in the coupling positions and replaced the cathode biasing resistors.  Sounds great with headphones!!


 



 This is what we call "simplicity is beauty". Nice gears (I like your Kenwood, Sui and Pionny also. Stunning look)!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Don't forget to enjoy your music!


----------



## mr.khali

Just picked up a Marantz 2225 for about $180 locally here in Toronto.  I am  using it for the time being as a heaphone amp and to listen to vinyl with an old Technics SL-M2.  I was using a NAD 304 amp before and headphone out seemed to be a little cleaner on the NAD.  The Marantz sounds good and has more than enough power for my AKG K340 but can get really bass heavy so i need to keep the bass level at around the halfway mark.  Didn't want to spend more than $150 but It is great condition cosmetically so I am hoping it is not too bad inside.  Are there any adjustments a noob with no soldering or previous electronics experience can do to possibly make minor improvements?


----------



## henree

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Sansui 7000, Pioneer SX-1010 and Kenwood KR-9050 (just revived with a new power switch)


 


  How does the Sansui 7000 sound?


----------



## Ultrainferno

I've been listening to my 91 Kenwood receiver the whole afternoon while reading this thread and I actually am quite surprised of the result with my HD650.
  The Kenwood, as far as I know, is a warm sounding amp and it actually pairs up well with the senns.
  It's great with 60-70-80s music and rock as long as it's not bass heavy. I like my fair amount of bass so with light bass recordings the Kenwood just adds that extra bit of bass which makes it perfect for me.
  With bass heavier music or dance, the bass gets bloated. It does transform the 80s Metallica recordings into the perfect sound for me, while with my 339 these just are too "sharp" sounding. (My FA Eternaz do exactly the same thing to the metallica sound, and I love it)
   
  Anyway, I'll be listening to my Kenwood more often now I think when I just want a dark, relaxing sound.
  Now I just have to get that Marantz 1060 and the Pioneer SX_300 ($30!)
   
  Sorry if my impressions are noobish, I'm not used to writing about it (and certainly not in my 3rd language)


----------



## sesshin

Love the minimalist style of that Fisher. And with the headphone jack front and center it looks like a dedicated headphone amp.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





henree said:


> How does the Sansui 7000 sound?


 

 I've listened to it mainly with LCD-2s and it sounds amazing with them via the HP out.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Sansui 7000, Pioneer SX-1010 and Kenwood KR-9050 (just revived with a new power switch)


 

 Thanks for posting this gear.  Simply beautiful stuff. the vintage gear is so elegant.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Fisher X-101C
> 
> Just finished up replacing all the electrolytic caps, installed Russian PIO caps in the coupling positions and replaced the cathode biasing resistors.  Sounds great with headphones!!


 
  Nice.


----------



## cifani090

Everyone, i got a little problem. IM IN LOVE with my Kenwood 9000GX, and the guy that i bought it from want to trade it from me. Hes offering some Marantz equipment (2230, 2226b) and a Pioneer 980. He really made me pay for the Kenwood ($400) and he had someone else at the time competing for it and i have him number and he'll buy it from me for $450. But i dont really want to trade it, unless, i told him this as well, it was a Pioneer 1250 or 1280


----------



## BmWr75

None of the gear he is offering is worth the offer he has made.  The Kenwood you have looks like a nice receiver per the Google image search I did.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Sansui 7000, Pioneer SX-1010 and Kenwood KR-9050 (just revived with a new power switch)


 

 Your Kenwood looks in very similar size to my Kenwood 9000GX.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Everyone, i got a little problem. IM IN LOVE with my Kenwood 9000GX, and the guy that i bought it from want to trade it from me. Hes offering some Marantz equipment (2230, 2226b) and a Pioneer 980. He really made me pay for the Kenwood ($400) and he had someone else at the time competing for it and i have him number and he'll buy it from me for $450. But i dont really want to trade it, unless, i told him this as well, it was a Pioneer 1250 or 1280


 

 Now he said he'll trade his Pioneer 1250 for my Kenwood and my Sansui AU-999?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Now he said he'll trade his Pioneer 1250 for my Kenwood and my Sansui AU-999?


 

 Keep your Kenwood.  If you trade it you'll always be sorry you did.  Sometimes you just have to turn away from a deal even if you will gain more in material value or even perhaps financial gain.  You love the Kenwood, keep it. You'll miss it as time goes by if you trade it.   If your'e in this hobby for trading and small financial gains then you can make a lot more money with your time doing something else.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Love the minimalist style of that Fisher. And with the headphone jack front and center it looks like a dedicated headphone amp.


 


  She hides her knobby parts behind a panel.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Now he said he'll trade his Pioneer 1250 for my Kenwood and my Sansui AU-999?


 

 Not a trade I'd make.  Maybe a straight up trade for the 1250.  Would all depend on condition.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Keep your Kenwood.  If you trade it you'll always be sorry you did.  Sometimes you just have to turn away from a deal even if you will gain more in material value or even perhaps financial gain.  You love the Kenwood, keep it. You'll miss it as time goes by if you trade it.   If your'e in this hobby for trading and small financial gains then you can make a lot more money with your time doing something else.


 
   
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Not a trade I'd make.  Maybe a straight up trade for the 1250.  Would all depend on condition.


 

 I told him i would do a trade for the Sansui, Onkyo, Omega speakers and vintage headphones; that was the best offer i made him. He said "That's NOT what I said!", and he also said i could trade either the Sansui, or Kenwood plus $, which im not doing.


----------



## moodyrn

On audiokarma, the two are considered equals. Not way would I give up all of that. They both are totl and have similar power ratings. It just depends on if you like the kenwood sound or the pioneer sound.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> On audiokarma, the two are considered equals. Not way would I give up all of that. They both are totl and have similar power ratings. It just depends on if you like the kenwood sound or the pioneer sound.


 

 I have not tried a Pioneer receiver yet, but it would look good to have a 1250 next to a 9000GX
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Im not giving up the Kenwood and the Sansui for the Pioneer, i will give up the Sansui, Onkyo,etc. The Onkyo needs a bit of work, and the Sansui is the best part of the deal for him.


----------



## henree

I am thinking about buying a Sansui 4000 for 80 bucks. I wonder how similar the 4000 is to the 7000 Sansui. How does the 7000 handle the high and low frequencies? I a kind of shy away from bassy heavy receivers.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> On audiokarma, the two are considered equals. Not way would I give up all of that. They both are totl and have similar power ratings. It just depends on if you like the kenwood sound or the pioneer sound.


 

 Dont you think a Sansui AU-999 for a 1250 is fair
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? Or the Sansui with an Onkyo 4500 or Kenwood 7200? He wants the Sansui + $300. Im stuck


----------



## Philimon

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Dont you think a Sansui AU-999 for a 1250 is fair
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe something wrong with the 1250? Maybe he will let you compare at home on your rig and you decide which to keep if he is so desperate. 
   
  I would take others advice and keep the stuff you really want, and not worry about a small financial gain.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





philimon said:


> Maybe something wrong with the 1250? Maybe he will let you compare at home on your rig and you decide which to keep if he is so desperate.
> 
> I would take others advice and keep the stuff you really want, and not worry about a small financial gain.


 

 Im not looking for any type of gain, ive just been upgrading and im getting the good stuff now. Im keeping the Kenwood, and i have an Onkyo and Sansui, speakers, headphones to trade if he wants it. Ive delt with him for the Kenwood, and hes a pain in the butt. Im very close to getting it, its just he wants the good stuff. He said he doesn't even want the Onkyo if it was free
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I offered him a Kenwood 7200 that i dont even have but will trade and he said no. Nothing is wrong with the 1250, he has two minor problems, but he fixes all his equipment, so he said he'll fix it.


----------



## Silent One

Pioneer SX-650 ~
   
  Finally received my amp Saturday afternoon; too busy to play with it until early Sunday morning. I dropped both top/bottom panels and blew out the dust, webs and cleaned the fuses; holders. Gave the twin caps a visual - nuthin' leaking. And couldn't decide what to deoxIT next, so back together it went. All of the switches are secure and all of the panel lights work.
   
  The 2010 Mac mini/ W4S DAC-1 fed the Pioneer with Pure Music 1.8a playing in fixed-integer mode - plugging in and listening to the D7000's was quite the delight! Granted, the Denon cans are very easy to drive. _But I couldn't believe how much reserve is on tap through the HPO!  _I ran through my music library with a grin. Although the Pioneer may not be as resolving as my Woo amp, it is definitely good enough to enjoy inside my listening room. 
   
  Did I mention 'value?!' _I got so much bang for my buck, I'm suspicious..._





 This is a fun, fun amp! I realize I can't everything... but I sure would like to get a bigger vintage amp now. Though, I'm not sure where it would go. The SX-650 just barely fit onto the fold-out table yesterday. Things are so tight, I had to move the TT to a folding tray located outside the pix but near the Pioneer.


----------



## Sobeefus

Maybe this is a noob question but , I have just resurrected an un-used onkyo 6disc dvd player and re purposed it to be used with the 'Sui. Problem is it only has the one aux input, and I also would love to listen to an ipod or other portable device. So, that being said any suggestions on what to do? I tried plugging into the phono input but it doesn't seem to have a phono pre amp. I'm stumped, it doesn't seem right to use any kind of splitter.


----------



## Skylab

SilentOne, very nice! Glad you are liking it.

Sobeefus, you can use the Tape In for that.


----------



## Tone Def

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> It's a vintage, although it's probably not going to be considered a classic vintage.
> 
> The major American and Japanese brands frantically escalated in power and build through the 70s before imploding in the 80s, while NAD steadily chugged along for the same period making well-built, modestly-scaled equipment. So in the 80s, while the quality of the majors began spiraling downwards, NAD looked increasingly better by comparison even though they hadn't really changed a whole lot qualitatively. Most NAD equipment of that period is respected even if most models fly under the radar.
> 
> The best way to tell is your ears, of course. If it sounds good, it's good.


 

  
  X2
   
  My dad gave me his old NAD 3020A. It's fed from my STX and boy does it sound good driving my 595's.
   
  Cheers for the thread guys!


----------



## log0

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Man, if it's under $400, go for it. I have 1120a (non-A version has two power transfomer), it's the best receiver in my collection. It has silk-smooth warm sound, and it also has the biggest sound stage. Not to mention the beautiful rose wood case.
> 
> Oh, don't trust the serviced stuff on eBay too much,!! Placing bulb and changing few caps can be titled as serviced. I lean to buy an stocked one and let the gurus in AK do service.


 

 Hey Meewoo,
  Just wondering, has your Luxman been restored? I'm fairly new at buying vintage equipment. Given that the Luxman in my area has some kind of volume issue already I wonder how difficult it would be to take it to a stereo repair and get it serviced. Do these mom and pop stereo shops know to how properly restore 70's equipment? I know it depends on the expert in the store who's doing the restoring, I just can't imagine anyone in my area has worked on a Luxman before. Is changing caps similar to changing oil on a car, can anyone who understands the insides of stereo equipment perform a restore?
   
  On another note, I just won a Pioneer SX-1250 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Can't wait to get it into my hands and it give a run with the LCD-2s and my speakers. Unfortunate that I will probably have to send it away for service. Man this hobby is taking me to the cleaners...


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, Log0.  The SX-1250 is truly a wonderful receiver, and you will enjoy owning it.


----------



## log0

Thanks Skylab. Now I have to hunt down a good price for a service. I've recently joined Audiokarma but I'm not too familiar with their forum structure. I'm trying to find a classified services section or something like that. They have a section called "Bartertown" which I believe you need to pay for to have access to it. I've heard that forum member "EchoWars" on AK does a great job restoring the Pioneer's so maybe I'll throw him a PM.
   
  I'd love to take it to a local stereo shop to avoid time delay and shipping but I doubt they'll have the expertise with this receiver. If anyone knows someone with experience restoring these babies for a fair price please shoot me a PM. Thanks!


----------



## BmWr75

Access to AK's Bartertown does require a $25/year subscription.  Bartertown is for selling/buying stuff.
   
  However, you should post in the "Vintage Solid State" forum and ask about good repair techs in your area.  Am confident you will get responses.  Be sure and talk about your new to you  SX-1250 in the post.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Hey Meewoo,
> Just wondering, has your Luxman been restored? I'm fairly new at buying vintage equipment. Given that the Luxman in my area has some kind of volume issue already I wonder how difficult it would be to take it to a stereo repair and get it serviced. Do these mom and pop stereo shops know to how properly restore 70's equipment? I know it depends on the expert in the store who's doing the restoring, I just can't imagine anyone in my area has worked on a Luxman before. Is changing caps similar to changing oil on a car, can anyone who understands the insides of stereo equipment perform a restore?
> 
> On another note, I just won a Pioneer SX-1250
> ...


 



 Congrats to your SX-1250!! It's truly a wonderful receiver!!
  My Luxman is stocked. When I went to pick it up, the gentleman has a power cap restored SX-1250 at home. At that time, I was lured into rap. So I listened to rap music stations paired with my Q701. I was  shrilled how good Pioneer SX-1250 is, punchy, energetic. Luxman appeared soft, not engaging (involving). Anyway, I decided to pack the Luxman home since I got it at very good price. I did some deoxid and clean it a little. (mine has very low scratchy sound in left channel through headphone also, but deoxid made job done)
  Later, I got my SX-1050, then SX-1250, they are all stock but in very mint condition. They also have similar Pionny sound everyone talks about. But I just packed them in closet. I am now listening to Jazz and classic mostly, the Luxman is my daily headphone amp. IMHO, Pionny can change from very low pitch to a high pitch in very quick way, so it appears very dynamic, engaging, but somehow forces you to enjoy music. Luxman, and my Yamaha CR-1020 are on the other side, they flow like a river in the dawn, you won't be fascinated at first sight, but eventually you will find how beautiful sound they have. For Rock'n Roll or Rap, I may still prefer Pionny, but for classic and Jazz, I am Luxman fan.
  I do find that SX-xx50 is little brighter than earlier generations Pionny receivers, but they are faster and more dynamic. All my observation is based on my bright AKG Q701 and KEF Q90 speakers. YMMV since you have a warmer LCD-2. Enjoy your music!!
  Yes, PM Echowars for help. if he is busy, he will refer you to another guru.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Thanks Skylab. Now I have to hunt down a good price for a service. I've recently joined Audiokarma but I'm not too familiar with their forum structure. I'm trying to find a classified services section or something like that. They have a section called "Bartertown" which I believe you need to pay for to have access to it. I've heard that forum member "EchoWars" on AK does a great job restoring the Pioneer's so maybe I'll throw him a PM.
> 
> I'd love to take it to a local stereo shop to avoid time delay and shipping but I doubt they'll have the expertise with this receiver. If anyone knows someone with experience restoring these babies for a fair price please shoot me a PM. Thanks!


 


  I would only use someone that knows them and how to restore them. i tried local bad news. Google search vintage Pioneer repairs there a place in NY that for 375.00 will overhaul it and guarantee it for 6 months.


----------



## log0

Thanks for the responses. Well today I've become the proud owner of not just one but two pieces of vintage receiver gear! Shortly after winning the Pioneer SX-1250 I followed up on the Craigslist ad for a Luxman R1120. After driving an hour and a half down to Miami in bad traffic, I got a taste of the receiver. The wood finish is in beautiful mint condition, a nice rosewood color if I had to guess. For the demo we hooked it up to some old Yamaha speakers and played some Jimi Hendrix - Bold as Love album through the seller's squeezebox. Man the sound was very impressive when you consider this receiver was 30+ years old. It does have it's issues, manly the fact that when you turn the volume knob you hear some scratching. Having read some posts here and on AK I believe this can be fixed with DeOxit which can be had at Radioshack for $15. After mentioning the volume issue and having to get is serviced, I started negotiating and walked away with it for $250 cash. It's what I felt comfortable paying, not sure if that is the going rate or not but either way I think I got a pretty good deal.
   
  I've already posted on AK to find people to help me service the SX-1250 and the R1120, no responses yet. I've found some threads of local stereo repair folks who come recommended, but not specifically for the gear I just purchased. I agree with Frank I, I would only want this gear serviced by an old salty dog working on his 200th Pioneer service. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll try and snap some photos of the R1120 tomorrow since it's the only one I have in my possession and the SX-1250 should be on it's way. Again, I can't thank you guys enough for the wonderful resource you've been in helping me decide what vintage gear works best for my setup. While I was not part of the original posts of this thread, I've read through it numerous times and the discussions and opinions shared by the members here in addition to AK are invaluable! I hope my posts can help a poor fellow looking to buy some vintage audio gear one day.
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## Silent One

Another look inside his listening room... Just discovered the date of my Pioneer - August, 1977.
   

   
   
  Two vintage black light posters on the opposing wall from my audio gear. The famous War Queen poster (1971) by The Houston Blacklight Poster & Dist Co (Houston artist George Goode). And the little girl (1971) was painted by an East Oakland artist.


----------



## livewire

I'm not worhty, but I likey me some War Queen.
   
  Heh, listening to old stuff on my Stax. Cranberries - "Linger"


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





livewire said:


> I'm not worhty, but I likey me some War Queen.
> 
> Heh, listening to old stuff on my Stax. Cranberries - "Linger"


 
   
   
  I haven't had the opportunity to hear the newer Stax cans yet... can't wait! Likely, it'll be someone else's cans I listen to, but that's ok.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Thanks for the responses. Well today I've become the proud owner of not just one but two pieces of vintage receiver gear! Shortly after winning the Pioneer SX-1250 I followed up on the Craigslist ad for a Luxman R1120. After driving an hour and a half down to Miami in bad traffic, I got a taste of the receiver. The wood finish is in beautiful mint condition, a nice rosewood color if I had to guess. For the demo we hooked it up to some old Yamaha speakers and played some Jimi Hendrix - Bold as Love album through the seller's squeezebox. Man the sound was very impressive when you consider this receiver was 30+ years old. It does have it's issues, manly the fact that when you turn the volume knob you hear some scratching. Having read some posts here and on AK I believe this can be fixed with DeOxit which can be had at Radioshack for $15. After mentioning the volume issue and having to get is serviced, I started negotiating and walked away with it for $250 cash. It's what I felt comfortable paying, not sure if that is the going rate or not but either way I think I got a pretty good deal.
> 
> I've already posted on AK to find people to help me service the SX-1250 and the R1120, no responses yet. I've found some threads of local stereo repair folks who come recommended, but not specifically for the gear I just purchased. I agree with Frank I, I would only want this gear serviced by an old salty dog working on his 200th Pioneer service.
> 
> ...


 



 Congrats to your R1120!! It's the TOTL of Luxman in 70's!
  Yes, please post some pIcs of this beauty, especially the nude one!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I want to see what the difference is between a and non-a inside. And share your impression of two receivers with us after you get Pionny. Enjoy!!


----------



## T-Willi

Hey everyone. Im pretty new in the whole audiophile thing but Ive been loving good sound and music for a while though  I've been browsing through this thread and I've noticed that my Marantz Model 2226 was/isnt the only receiver with a slight scratchy noise when turning the volume knob. I made a thread in the Dedicated Source forum to see if anyone had some knowledge on the problem and the two options I received was to clean out the dust with a blower (which I did and that helped tremendously) or clean it out the dust but also take out the pots, capacitors, and other things of that matter and individually clean/ lube them but I wasnt interested in potentially eletricuting myself so I avoided that haha. When I move my volume knob the scratch/static noise is gone for the most part but still pops up to ask how I'm doing every once in a while  Anyway, going through I've read that some DeOxit from Radioshack will handle that problem? I went to the maker of DeOxit's site to read up on it but could someone enlighten me with some simple down to earth descriptions of it? haha
   
     Thanks, Kyle


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





t-willi said:


> Hey everyone. Im pretty new in the whole audiophile thing but Ive been loving good sound and music for a while though  I've been browsing through this thread and I've noticed that my Marantz Model 2226 was/isnt the only receiver with a slight scratchy noise when turning the volume knob. I made a thread in the Dedicated Source forum to see if anyone had some knowledge on the problem and the two options I received was to clean out the dust with a blower (which I did and that helped tremendously) or clean it out the dust but also take out the pots, capacitors, and other things of that matter and individually clean/ lube them but I wasnt interested in potentially eletricuting myself so I avoided that haha. When I move my volume knob the scratch/static noise is gone for the most part but still pops up to ask how I'm doing every once in a while  Anyway, going through I've read that some DeOxit from Radioshack will handle that problem? I went to the maker of DeOxit's site to read up on it but could someone enlighten me with some simple down to earth descriptions of it? haha
> 
> Thanks, Kyle


 

 Sounds like you need some DeOxit. My Pioneer did the same thing PLUS the power switch was SUPER sticky. Like moving it through molasses. Picked up a small can from RadioShack and blasted the pots and switches. Do this with the faceplate off, obviously, and move the dials and switches the full range of motion to rub off some of the oxidation. It could take a couple of hours to a day for the effects to show fully. 
   
  Good luck!


----------



## log0

WOW! That's all I can say after spending the last hour with my Luxman R1120. Incredible. I  finally have some clear, detailed, dynamic, engaging music. You must understand, I used a Pioneer VSX-1019AHK, a 7.1 channel AVR that does a commendable job for movies but not so much with music, not after listening to the R1120 anyways. I hooked them up to my Definitive Technology BP7002 speakers and gave them a desperately needed work out. "Sometimes you got to feed a little speed to your ride", I believe was the quote from Martin Lawrence when he was racing down the street in a police car from the movie Blue Streak. Same thing here, same thrilling feeling. Never have I heard my speakers sound this good. Never!
   
  I hooked the Luxman up via my comcast cable box audio outs and listened to the music channels, which I'm assuming is compressed and lossy audio. Didn't matter. Sounded amazing. A true revelation of how much the amplifier matters. I played some Wynston Marsalis - Baby I Love You. Never heard the song before but it was the first time I heard my speakers feel so musical, you couldn't help swinging your arms to the music. Later I tried classical music, some Mozart and Beethovan. Just awesome. The mids sounded like tubes and the presentation was extremely dynamic. I could tell where instruments were in their proper space.
   
  Later I threw in the LCD-2s. Yup. I got my money's worth. This is what I've been expecting out of these bad boys. Extremely detailed, truly stereo sound. I can't imagine how balanced must sound. Very dynamic presentation and just wonderful midrange.
   
  Sometimes amid amplifiers, sources, speakers, cables, etc...we miss the forest by the trees and forget that in the end this is about the music! Not the gear! The R1120 reminded me of this paradox, you need good gear to get good music. I still need to use the famous DeOxit spray, though I'm hesitant to even open her up because she sounds so good and for fear of breaking something.
   
  Unfortunately the fiance has the camera so I couldn't take any high quality shots. Below is one I snapped with my phone. This truly is a beautiful receiver, I cannot believe the condition it's in after so many years, both physically and functionally. And I also can't believe how big the Pioneer SX-1250 is going to be when I receive it. The R1120 measures 19" inches across, I believe the SX-1250 measures 22" inches! I'm going to need more room!


----------



## Skylab

After the deoxit spraying you need to work the controls as AuralRelations says - like several DOZEN times.


----------



## TruBrew

Very exciting, you will have to let us know how the Pioneer compares.


----------



## T-Willi

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Sounds like you need some DeOxit. My Pioneer did the same thing PLUS the power switch was SUPER sticky. Like moving it through molasses. Picked up a small can from RadioShack and blasted the pots and switches. Do this with the faceplate off, obviously, and move the dials and switches the full range of motion to rub off some of the oxidation. It could take a couple of hours to a day for the effects to show fully.
> 
> Good luck!


 


 Thanks!
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> After the deoxit spraying you need to work the controls as AuralRelations says - like several DOZEN times.


 


  Will do my good man!


----------



## BmWr75

Caig, the maker of Deoxit, also makes a product called FaderLube.  It is a good practice to follow Deoxit (after allowing time for the solvent to evaporate) with FaderLube to make the pots/switches move smoothly.


----------



## rprokop63

Skylab,
  What model/brand is that rack you have your vintage gear in in the picture of the Pioneer speakers if you don't mind my asking?
  It looks like about the  size I need to hold some of my gear unless it's a lot wider than it looks.
  I'm looking for something not too brutally expensive in the 19d x 24 wide range.
   
  BTW I love the stuff you keep showing us!
   
  Love my Marantz 2226b and Klipsch Cornwalls as my vintage speakers.


----------



## Skylab

Believe it or not, I bought the rack at Best Buy.  I'm not sure of the exact brand.


----------



## T-Willi

Ok, back from applying the D series  deoxit and I have a question.... Should I leave my receiver off for a whole 24hrs to let that stuff work itself until I put on the G series deoxit? or can I use it while its working itself (the d series)?
   
   
  edit: and in the process I used the whole deoxit can (for the whole receiver that is) dunno if thats good or bad.... lol


----------



## dukja

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Caig, the maker of Deoxit, also makes a product called FaderLube.  It is a good practice to follow Deoxit (after allowing time for the solvent to evaporate) with FaderLube to make the pots/switches move smoothly.


 
   
  I used the D5F-6 and it claims to have lubrication.  Do I still need to use FaderLube?  FaderLube seems to be designed for non-metallic contact.  I wonder if the DeoxIT Gold will be more suitable for the lubrication of metal contact (or maybe just D5F-6 is sufficient)?


----------



## log0

I just went to buy some DeOxit, it came in a two pack with the regular version and gold version for about $15 bucks. I also bought some electrical component dust spray. Unfortunately, while trying to remove the screws underneath the receiver it looks like I stripped the head of one. I've tried with pliers to take it out to no avail. I wasn't sure what to do next so I hooked it up to my speakers and played some blues! Still, I'm not sure how to approach this stripped screw head problem if the head isn't big enough to wrap some needle nose pliers on it.
   
  I too am looking for an inexpensive component rack, the first place I went to was Target then Homegoods. Now that Skylab mentions it I have to swing by Best Buy to see what they got, of course I think they'll charge a bit more.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I went to Target first, and they had nothing useable.  So I went to best buy next...the rack was under $200, but of course I had to put it together...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> IStill, I'm not sure how to approach this stripped screw head problem if the head isn't big enough to wrap some needle nose pliers on it.


 
  eh............
  I have encountered the same problem. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I was searching online for method yesterday, here is a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_s6CxwFoNM
  I don't have those tools, so I just give up. If someone know a good method, please let us know!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rprokop63 said:


> Skylab,
> What model/brand is that rack you have your vintage gear in in the picture of the Pioneer speakers if you don't mind my asking?
> It looks like about the  size I need to hold some of my gear unless it's a lot wider than it looks.
> I'm looking for something not too brutally expensive in the 19d x 24 wide range.
> ...


 


   
  I envy you rprokop64. I used to own a pair of walnut finished Cornwall II back in the late 80s, early 90s and loved them. I think they are the most balanced sound out of the Heritage series. If I had the space to place a vintage system those would be my speakers of choice with either a Marantz like yours or a Pioneer like Skylab.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





dukja said:


> I used the D5F-6 and it claims to have lubrication.  Do I still need to use FaderLube?  FaderLube seems to be designed for non-metallic contact.  I wonder if the DeoxIT Gold will be more suitable for the lubrication of metal contact (or maybe just D5F-6 is sufficient)?


 

 Am not familiar with the product you used.  Sorry......


----------



## BmWr75

In AudioKarma.org's Bartertown (subscriber only section) there is are a Pioneer SX-1980, Pioneer SX-1250 and Sansui G-22000 for sale.


----------



## sesshin

Just out of curiosity, how much is the 1250 going for? I don't have a subscription.


----------



## Skylab

There was a cosmetically challenged SX-1250 on for $250, but I am pretty sure it's sold.

The SX-1980 is in very nice condition, but the seller wants $2,200.


----------



## T-Willi

Hey SilentOne where did you get that desk and how much did it cost if you dont mind me asking. I've been wanting a regular flat and of decent length desk for a while now and my current desk just isnt doing it for me especially space wise. If anyone knows this desk please let me know, I reallllllllly want one haha.
   
  edit: I dunno why I didnt say it also but by the way I do love your setup 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Another look inside his listening room... Just discovered the date of my Pioneer - August, 1977.


----------



## sesshin

Skylab or anyone else who knows, does $500 seem like a good price for a clean SX-1250? I've got a line on one locally and I'm thinking about picking it up to do a sound off with my Kenny.


----------



## Skylab

I think that $500 for a SX-1250 in good electrical and cosmetic condition is a very reasonable price.

There are two SX-1980's on Audiogon right now...one for $1,880 that sounds like it may not be all that great cosmetically (no pics) and one that is very nice looking for $2,500. Unusual to see two of these available at once...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Skylab or anyone else who knows, does $500 seem like a good price for a clean SX-1250? I've got a line on one locally and I'm thinking about picking it up to do a sound off with my Kenny.


 

 I would say it's a fair price. Of course it all depends on your market. If you are in a market no one knows the "market" value, you can get it for less. But I saw eBay SX-1250 normally ended around $600 plus $100 shipping. I got my stock Sx-1050 with box for $300 plus 3.5 hour driving.
  If you really want Pionny, go for it and enjoy! Pionny sounds totally different to Kenny, Pionny is forward and Kenny is layback.  My local has a stock SX-1280 for $2350,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just don't believe it.


----------



## sesshin

There is also a SX-1980 on Craigslist in Hesperia, CA (Inland Empire) going for $1400. supposedly VG condition. If anyone is in the area they might want to check it out.


----------



## 5aces

Sansui CA 2000 Preamplifier and Sansui BA 2000 Amplifier around 1975/76 Definition Series.

The BA 2000 @ 110W took charge of the Vandersteens like a Dominatrix on Fetish night.

Separates are good,the CA 2000 Pre has two outputs for bi-amping,a dead silent background and a built in headphone amplifier.

The Big Daddy AU 20000 has a lamp out,so I had to bring out the substitute...


----------



## Skylab

Wow, 5Aces, that is just beautiful stuff!!! Very nice


----------



## T-Willi

Thats just b-e-a-utiful, 
   
  Kudos to anyone that knows what its from. Even though its not that secretive/unknown haha.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Sansui CA 2000 Preamplifier and Sansui BA 2000 Amplifier around 1975/76 Definition Series.
> 
> The BA 2000 @ 110W took charge of the Vandersteens like a Dominatrix on Fetish night.
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice, i was thinking of selling my Sansui AU-999, but it has sound like no other.


----------



## cifani090

Ok, i need your guys's help. I (if you dont know) had a problematic transaction with a guy in France. Well i did not put tracking on it, long story short i need $560 to pay off the PayPal balance. I was thinking of selling my Sansui AU-999 and paying that off. I really dont want too, but whats the difference with the Sansui sound sig vs. a Pioneer one? Im thinking of getting the 1250 for christmas, $400, have a guy local, and than getting a pair of JBL 100's or something similar. What do you guys think???


----------



## 5aces

Just brought it out,that's why the old boy is dusty.

I really like this preamplifier.
One of the best volume controls in the game.
Look at the inputs-ready for anything vintage.
With separate volume controls on the Sansui amp,I can now have unity gain while preamping the Pioneer M 22 for that smashing Quad sound...

Skylab,we're junkies and have to remember it's the last one that will kill you...ha ha ! rave on ; )

If you click on the pics,it seems they appear in even more detail,or am I just another drunk?


----------



## sesshin

All that black is secksy.


----------



## Skylab

5aces said:


> Skylab,we're junkies and have to remember it's the last one that will kill you...ha ha ! rave on ; )




Ain't THAT the truth


----------



## log0

I cleaned up my Luxman R1120 today. Man, they don't give you enough DeOxit in those little bottles from Radioshack. I bought the Radioshack branded "Electrical Component Cleaner" which seems to be similar, although it doesn't give you the bubbling action on the oxidized material that DeOxit gives you. I can't say that I noticed much of an improvement after cleaning up the receiver since it sounded fantastic already, other than the scratchy volume issue which was taken care of. I took some pics below for those who are interested. I've also uploaded some videos to Youtube so you can see the guts.
   
  Luxman and LCD-2 before the breakdown.

   
  Opening up for surgery

   
  Top down

   
  Luxman opened up next to the LCD-2

   
   
  Beautiful cabinet

   
   
  All cleaned up. Of all the maintenance I did, I think the biggest difference was the Orange Glow I sprayed on the cabinet to get that shine!

   
   
  The Luxman with the Monolithic Audio-GD Reference One. I still haven't been able to hook them up. I think I may end up having to use this stand as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  I apologize if I bombarded the thread with photos. I also have some youtube videos linked below:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xNVxPagSgw
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C2Z9WgM6HE
  Man I love those LED's!
   
  If anyone has any questions about cleaning up a Luxman R1120, feel free to PM me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On another note, I have the opportunity to purchase an SX-1280 in about 7/10 condition cosmetically, and excellent working condition all for $550. I would have bought it already but as some of you know I already have a SX-1250 coming to me on Friday. It's a great deal I know, but will I notice a difference? I don't want to spend money unnecessarily. Audiokarma tends to prefer the 1250, what do you guys think?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Sansui CA 2000 Preamplifier and Sansui BA 2000 Amplifier around 1975/76 Definition Series.


 


  Wow....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Nice job, Log0!


----------



## log0

Thanks! I really feel I got my money's worth. I get to do this all over again when the SX-1250 arrives


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> I cleaned up my Luxman R1120 today. Man, they don't give you enough DeOxit in those little bottles from Radioshack. I bought the Radioshack branded "Electrical Component Cleaner" which seems to be similar, although it doesn't give you the bubbling action on the oxidized material that DeOxit gives you. I can't say that I noticed much of an improvement after cleaning up the receiver since it sounded fantastic already, other than the scratchy volume issue which was taken care of. I took some pics below for those who are interested. I've also uploaded some videos to Youtube so you can see the guts.
> 
> If anyone has any questions about cleaning up a Luxman R1120, feel free to PM me
> 
> ...


 

 Are you sure it's 1120, not 1120a? I didn't see dual transformers here, and I can't see the letter on face plate. I am happy the scratchy was taken care of, otherwise I will feel guilty to push you into this beauty. Ak members recommend to get Deoxit it from Guitar center for $15 5fl can, but I once got the same can from Amazon for around $14.
   
  Well, the SX-1280 is not iconic as SX-1250 since it has big brother SX-1980. The most important thing between SX-1250 and SX-1280 is that all parts of 1250 can still get today, but not SX-1280. I think you can make wise choice base on price and all facts. Oh, not all parts of Luxman R1120 are available also!!


----------



## cifani090

What does the Sansui sound sig differ from the Pioneer's?


----------



## log0

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Are you sure it's 1120, not 1120a? I didn't see dual transformers here, and I can't see the letter on face plate. I am happy the scratchy was taken care of, otherwise I will feel guilty to push you into this beauty. Ak members recommend to get Deoxit it from Guitar center for $15 5fl can, but I once got the same can from Amazon for around $14.
> 
> Well, the SX-1280 is not iconic as SX-1250 since it has big brother SX-1980. The most important thing between SX-1250 and SX-1280 is that all parts of 1250 can still get today, but not SX-1280. I think you can make wise choice base on price and all facts. Oh, not all parts of Luxman R1120 are available also!!


 

 The back of the receiver says 1120, not 1120a. I may take a trip on down to Guitar center and buy the big can. As great a deal the 1280 is, I'm going to wait until the 1250 arrives on Friday before making my decision.
   
  I also posted about a McIntosh MC2255 a couple days ago. Well, if you search Audiogon, the seller still has it for sale. He offered me a special price which I declined because of all the new beauties I've acquired, but if anyone is interested PM me and I will give you his info.


----------



## 5aces

cifani090 said:


> What does the Sansui sound sig differ from the Pioneer's?




http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226910

Some have the Major League Sansui:


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What does the Sansui sound sig differ from the Pioneer's?


 

 IMHO, Sansui is more punchy in low, feel a little warmer and little bass heavy. Pionny is quicker and airy, and can feel a little hollow sometimes. I prefer Sui's balanced sound in most music.


----------



## 5aces

Well,the Pioneer Spec 1 is an odd preamp,get a Sansui Preamplifier with dual outputs and go for a a Pioneer/Sansui amplifier throwdown.

Hell,I can't say I'd choose between the Pioneer M 22 or the Sansui BA 2000,krikey depends on the speakers and then some...get both and run Quad,as I type it's what I'm hearing--absolutely fabulous streaming Shoutcast Eagle 181.FM through the Bel Canto e.One dac 1.5... : ))


----------



## cifani090

Pioneer 1250...$200...estate sale..i have ADHD for this and i need to get it!!!!!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Sansui CA 2000 Preamplifier and Sansui BA 2000 Amplifier around 1975/76 Definition Series.
> 
> The BA 2000 @ 110W took charge of the Vandersteens like a Dominatrix on Fetish night.
> 
> ...


 

 I had an audiogasm when I saw this!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





log0 said:


> I cleaned up my Luxman R1120 today. Man, they don't give you enough DeOxit in those little bottles from Radioshack. I bought the Radioshack branded "Electrical Component Cleaner" which seems to be similar, although it doesn't give you the bubbling action on the oxidized material that DeOxit gives you. I can't say that I noticed much of an improvement after cleaning up the receiver since it sounded fantastic already, other than the scratchy volume issue which was taken care of. I took some pics below for those who are interested. I've also uploaded some videos to Youtube so you can see the guts.
> 
> 
> 
> On another note, I have the opportunity to purchase an SX-1280 in about 7/10 condition cosmetically, and excellent working condition all for $550. I would have bought it already but as some of you know I already have a SX-1250 coming to me on Friday. It's a great deal I know, but will I notice a difference? I don't want to spend money unnecessarily. Audiokarma tends to prefer the 1250, what do you guys think?


 

 Thanks for posting those pics!  I think everyone loves to seem pics of vintage gear/


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Well,the Pioneer Spec 1 is an odd preamp,get a Sansui Preamplifier with dual outputs and go for a a Pioneer/Sansui amplifier throwdown.
> 
> Hell,I can't say I'd choose between the Pioneer M 22 or the Sansui BA 2000,krikey depends on the speakers and then some...get both and run Quad,as I type it's what I'm hearing--absolutely fabulous streaming Shoutcast Eagle 181.FM through the Bel Canto e.One dac 1.5... : ))


 

 Man, you are using the TOP models of both brands!! I believe they all sounds magnificent without question!!


----------



## 5aces

On the right day I'll whip out the Yamaha C-1,my favorite preamplifier and really mix things up...


----------



## sidel

I saw a partially-working marantz 2270 the other day on craigslist.  I wish I was feeling more up to the task.


----------



## blur510

I am thinking of getting an HE-6 and maybe a marantz 2325 to power it, what do you guys think of the combo? or should I stick with maybe a 22XX marantz?


----------



## log0

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> I am thinking of getting an HE-6 and maybe a marantz 2325 to power it, what do you guys think of the combo? or should I stick with maybe a 22XX marantz?


 

 Skylab mentions he prefers the Marantz 2275 with his HE-6. I've heard the 2270 with LCD-2s and thought it sounded great. I'm sure you'll get fine sound either way.


----------



## sesshin

Picked up the SX-1250 last night. Quick first impressions compared to the KR-9600 with the LCD-2s: The Pioneer is definitely brighter. Airier, which gives slightly more separation between instruments. The Kenwood seems to be a bit warmer and enveloping, especially in the mid-bass to bass region. Both are about the same level of detail.
   
  I find I need to tone down the treble a bit on the Pioneer but truthfully I would rather have to tone some part of the sound down than artificially boost something that's lacking, so not much of a complaint really.


----------



## Skylab

I use the Pioneer's tone controls on some recording to take the treble down a notch.  The tone controls are exceptionally well implemented and you can take off just a little using either the 10 kHz or the 20 kHz control.


----------



## Kabat

I decided that my gear deserved a proper stand, so I whipped one up out of some Southern Cross Pine. All joinery done by hand with mallet and chisel -- a nice exercise that turned out looking decent enough to be seen by others in daylight. Oh, and it's sturdy! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
  I've got a pair of HD600s coming in to replace the 555s, can't wait to hear how they sound with my Sansui.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





kabat said:


> I decided that my gear deserved a proper stand, so I whipped one up out of some Southern Cross Pine. All joinery done by hand with mallet and chisel -- a nice exercise that turned out looking decent enough to be seen by others in daylight. Oh, and it's sturdy!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice wood work!! And I like your clean set up too!!
   
  I just wonder that you may build a new stack soon when vintage bug bites you. You will want big Pionny, Sui...like many members here. Your current stack won't fit those big monsters. BTW, is your Sansui from 80's??


----------



## Kabat

Thanks! It's hard to tell in the picture but the stack is actually pretty big and will comfortably hold anything under 25 inches wide. I tried it with my friend's Kenwood KR-4070 (not as big as the really big dogs but bigger than what I own) and it held it no problem. Someday I'm going to get myself a proper setup with some really nice speakers and on that day I'll build myself an even bigger rack -- and in some nicer wood too, maybe red oak or mahogany.
   
  The Sansui is an AU-2200 from about 1975. It's a little baby at 10wpc but it's got more than enough juice for headphones and a really nice tone!


----------



## sesshin

Here is a photo of the SX-1250 and the KR0-9600 together as I was comparing them. Source: Macbook Pro, Fidelia, 24/96 FLACs, Audio-gd DI & NFB-2

   
  One thing nice about the SX-1250 is that the woodgrain is virtually the same shade as the LCD-2s, which are the same shade as my JBL L36s. I'm diggin it!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Here is a photo of the SX-1250 and the KR0-9600 together as I was comparing them. Source: Macbook Pro, Fidelia, 24/96 FLACs, Audio-gd DI & NFB-2
> 
> 
> One thing nice about the SX-1250 is that the woodgrain is virtually the same shade as the LCD-2s, which are the same shade as my JBL L36s. I'm diggin it!


 



 Looks sharp!! Nice pictures!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Please share your impression with us!


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful units, Sesshin!


----------



## WarriorAnt

This is my favorite thread. I find myself having to come back to it through the course of a day just to admire how beautiful the units are.


----------



## log0

Some great pictures in this thread. Love the look of the Kenwood. So, what did your comparison find?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Picked up the SX-1250 last night. Quick first impressions compared to the KR-9600 with the LCD-2s: The Pioneer is definitely brighter. Airier, which gives slightly more separation between instruments. The Kenwood seems to be a bit warmer and enveloping, especially in the mid-bass to bass region. Both are about the same level of detail.
> 
> I find I need to tone down the treble a bit on the Pioneer but truthfully I would rather have to tone some part of the sound down than artificially boost something that's lacking, so not much of a complaint really.


 

 Your impressions pretty much mirrors mine although I do have the sx1010 and not the sx1250. It funny that I also find that my pioneer and kenwood to have the same level of detail even though the pioneer is brighter. I wouldn't call it a bright receiver. I think it's really neutral, but the kenwood is warmer and a tad on the lush side. Technically they are on the same level. Just different flavors. I would call it neutral vs musical(though some would say neutral is musical).
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I use the Pioneer's tone controls on some recording to take the treble down a notch.  The tone controls are exceptionally well implemented and you can take off just a little using either the 10 kHz or the 20 kHz control.


 


  For that reason I much prefer the pioneer tone controls over the kenwood. The pioneer just gives you more control. With my he-6 I can dial in the low bass at 50hz without messing with the mids. On the kenwood if I dial in a little bass, the mids are slightly impacted since the kenwood don't give me the choice of what frequency to boost. It does have good tone controls, just not on par with the ones on the pioneer.


----------



## Wharfrat

Yowza!  Wish I had never knew a dude named Skylab!  It is his freaking fault!  Now I am arse over teakettle into vintage receivers....all on account of him commenting on the "AMAZING" headphone output from a Pioneer SX-1250...
   
  But I got to thank him for saving me from being haunted by Jason Schiit's Lyr-monster! 
   
  On account of having two hard to drive phones (HE-5 and Smeggy's Thunderpants), I was in dire need of alot more oomph to give notes more body and texture, which became clear after hearing how wonderful a pair of HE-6s sounded on a Lyr whilst at a local meet.  But I could not justify to my piggy bank handler the need to buy another dedicated headphone amplifier just to drive two measly cans when I already have two pretty decently powered amps (Opera Consonance Cyber-20 and a EF-5) for the rest of my headphone collection. 
   
  But because I wanted to power two separate speaker pairs in tandem or separately (Dahlquist M909 and/or Dunlavy SC-IV) using a choice one of two CD outputs (transistor or tube, separately powered via dual-mono transformers) from my Cayin SCD-50, the Pioneer SX-1250 and higher units had enough wattage to power the Dunlavys under that setup scenario.  I was able to persuade the missus to dump enough pennies into my pocket to go on a hunt for a Pioneer SX-1250 because I could then sell the Adcom GFA-555 200 watt amp that had powered the Duns up to that time and call it a wash.  Technically speaking, the piggy would get the pennies back. A fat piggy is a happy piggy, a truth that bankers all over the world could agree.
   
  On ebay, a pristine SX-1250 came up and with 2 mins to go I was the top bidder at $450...thot I had it in me pocketses (Gollum-ly speaking).  In that 2 minute span, the unit blinked out at $925...nary enough pennies, natch.  Now...I got mad (both psychologically and emotionally) and went on a Craigslist hunt...turns out a VG condition unit was available about 120 miles away....I ended up driving to the Oregon coast to pick it up for $480...and it was a beaut to see, a beast to haul....and gave me herniated visions of audiogasms ahead.
   
  And did I embarass myself....yeah....first, the Duns needed more power to get to the same volume level as the Dahls so using a single volume control knob on the SX-1250 did not enable that to happen, which ruled out playing the two pairs together....(yeah yeah, I know how loud the Duns are, but I have a huge listening room and too many Dead shows).  But being the bird in the hand and not in the bush, the SX-1250 was ushered into duty to goose alive those orthodynamic bruthas.
   
  And my heart sunk.  I fell in LOVE with the Pioneer's ability to drive the HE-5...and I had to now justify keeping it, which brought me additional agony from the banker.
   
  Da&^%#@?>* you, Skylab!  Thanks for pointing me in such heavenly (and hellish) direction!   I have to agree that vintage receivers and integrateds truly deserve respect and attention from serious head-fiers...I know I am going to be looking into a few of the models being touted in this thread!
   
  Now I got to figure what to sell....probably going to put up the HE-5 and TPs so I can get either a HE-6 or HE-500......
   
   
  Listening now to 11-19-72/Hofheinz Pavillion, "Tomorrow is Forever"..... lovely, lovely....


----------



## Skylab

Hahaha  yes, vintage audio can be mighty addicting, WharfRat. But it sure is fun! And considering the price of a lot of headphone amps these days, what you paid for the SX-1250, given all it does, is a bargain. If you have a turntable, buy yourself the new Blues For Allah LP re-issue and spin that throughout the 1250. It has a very nice phono section. And if you love near a good radio station, don't forget about the 1250's awesome tuner!


----------



## rprokop63

Thanks for the replies to both you and log0. I've run the same route looking for something to rack my stuff. I've got the day off so it may be a trip to Goodwill and see if I get lucky with something I can re-purpose as a rack.


----------



## T-Willi

I literally died laughing. Definitely putting this in my sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> * it was a beaut to see, a beast to haul....and gave me herniated visions of audiogasms ahead.*


----------



## rprokop63

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I envy you rprokop64. I used to own a pair of walnut finished Cornwall II back in the late 80s, early 90s and loved them. I think they are the most balanced sound out of the Heritage series. If I had the space to place a vintage system those would be my speakers of choice with either a Marantz like yours or a Pioneer like Skylab.


 
  I do love the vintage Cornwalls but there is no hiding the fact they are really big speakers. ( Fun to move too.) I got them for a good price and replaced the caps in the crossovers for a few more bucks. You mention space. My home office is where I keep my Marantz 2226, cd player and DAC and my Cary Audio Sli 80 tube rig ( not vintage but tubes with point to point build). I've also got the Cornwalls and a pair of nice Focal 807 bookshelf speakers on top of them. Add in the desk and computers, a bass, a couple guitars and the cd collection and I'm now out of space. Believe it or not this all fits neatly in a 11x12 room. When I'm running the Cornwalls it's like the room is a giant headphone. The thing is they sound amazing in this little room and it seems like with all this stuff in here they shouldn't have a right to sound that good. From my listening chair it soundless like the band is in the room and if you close your eyes you get that great sound stage where you can't tell where the speakers are but you sense the instruments or voices in locations where the speakers are not. I'm loving the vintage stuff and the newer stuff and am very thankful that on most days I have one or the other running while I work.
  In a way I'm glad I'm tight on space so this thread doesn't send me out hunting for more vintage gear every time someone posts a new photo!


----------



## log0

Hey rprokop63
  I see you are in South Florida like me. Do you know anyone who does a good job restoring these receivers?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Sort of a vintage question here.  I figure I'll need an oscilloscope when I start refurbishing vintage receivers but I'm not that familiar with using one yet.  I found a local ad for a Vintage Heathkit 10-105 oscilloscope. $30.   Would this scope have what it takes to do the measurements I need to take while refurbishing?  (plus its vintage!)


----------



## log0

I received my Pioneer SX-1250 today. What a monster. I had no idea how large this thing would be. I thought the Luxman R1120 was big!
   
  I was pleased with the physical condition of the receiver, although I am upset with the eBay seller for not telling me the part of the power cable that plugs into the wall is not original. He also did not disclose the receiver sounded scratchy. The left and right channels seem to go from time to time with my brief time with it. Overall I'm a little upset, mainly at the power cord not being original and the seller for his non-full disclosure. I'm going to try and fix the scratchiness with the DeOxit treatment that I gave the Luxman and potentially put it back on the market, we'll see how it does. Unfortunately this thing is too big for me to use as a headphone amp at this time. Living in a small apartment with this thing just doesn't make sense. Oh, and it certainly did not pass the WAF test. She was vehemently upset at this purchase.
   
  The Luxman R1120 on the other hand is doing wonderful. Dynamic and smooth music from the speaker tap and headphones. Couldn't be more pleased with it.


----------



## BmWr75

I would not be too upset about the power cord having been replaced.  This is a required fix for many 30+ year old components.


----------



## palmfish

Here is my vintage stuff.
   
  Pioneer integrated amp and tuner I got in 1981...
   

   
   
  And my Carver Receiver I bought in 1985 (along with the Denon cassette deck)...
   

   
  I'm just getting into headphones so I don't have much to add there yet. I recently purchased a pair of Sennheiser HD598's, but I'm not happy with the way they sound with the Carver (bass is overemphasized and bloated).
   
  Have any of you vintage gear owners found that new headphones are tough to match with older gear?


----------



## ardgedee

Headphones are as easy to match with amplifiers as speakers are...


----------



## rprokop63

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Hey rprokop63
> I see you are in South Florida like me. Do you know anyone who does a good job restoring these receivers?


 

 log0,
  There is a guy up in the WPB/Jupiter area that does some work on vintage stuff. I've spoken with him and he seems very honest and does work on vintage gear. You can always contact him and ask if it's an item he works on. He was upfront with me when I spoke with him and he has done work for another person I know as well. He was highly recommended by the small stereo shop I've bought some items from. I'm not sure of forum etiquette on putting the info here so I'll follow up with a PM just in case it's against the rules.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Headphones are as easy to match with amplifiers as speakers are...


 

 I somewhat agree, but the basic relationship between speaker and amp hasn't changed too much over the past the 3 decades. That isn't the case with headphones.
   
  My suspicion is that, 30 years ago, "audiophile headphones" were all pretty much designed to be used with home system amplifiers - amplifiers with big power supplies and large dynamic power reserves. Nobody dreamed back then of using AKG's or Sennheisers with a Sony Walkman.
   
  But with the proliferation of portable devices today, I wonder if "audiophile headphones" are now being designed with a consideration towards lower powered devices? And if this is the case, are the specifications such that some new headphones may not perform at their best with vintage amps. Doesn't the number of "audiophile" headphones (Grado, Beyer, Sennheiser, Shure, Denon, etc.) with <50 ohm impedance ratings and cables that terminate in a miniplug bear this out?


----------



## T-Willi

I'm starting to get a hang of this stuff but after the 2nd paragraph you lost me haha


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





t-willi said:


> I'm starting to get a hang of this stuff but after the 2nd paragraph you lost me haha


 

 Vintage audiophile phones were usually had an impedance in the 300 - 600 ohm range and 1/4 inch plugs.  They wouldn't play well with Walkmans. 
   
  Although, the Walkman didn't come out until the late 70s and I don't remember seeing them everywhere until the early 80s.  When most of the receivers and integrateds talked about in this thread came out, there really wasn't much in the way of portable audio except transistor radios. 
   
  Edit:  I just looked up the history of portable audio.  I didn't realize the first transistor radio came out in 54.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





scompton said:


> Vintage audiophile phones were usually had an impedance in the 300 - 600 ohm range and 1/4 inch plugs.  They wouldn't play well with Walkmans.
> 
> Although, the Walkman didn't come out until the late 70s and I don't remember seeing them everywhere until the early 80s.  When most of the receivers and integrateds talked about in this thread came out, there really wasn't much in the way of portable audio except transistor radios.
> 
> Edit:  I just looked up the history of portable audio.  I didn't realize the first transistor radio came out in 54.


 



 That's what I wanted to know. My Sennheisers are 50 ohm and I'm thinking about exchanging them for some higher impedance headphones.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scompton said:


> Vintage audiophile phones were usually had an impedance in the 300 - 600 ohm range and 1/4 inch plugs.  They wouldn't play well with Walkmans.
> 
> Although, the Walkman didn't come out until the late 70s and I don't remember seeing them everywhere until the early 80s.  When most of the receivers and integrateds talked about in this thread came out, there really wasn't much in the way of portable audio except transistor radios.
> 
> Edit:  I just looked up the history of portable audio.  I didn't realize the first transistor radio came out in 54.


 
  I was born just a few years after the transistor age but before the space age. Before man put any object into space. Man I feel ancient and I'm only 54.  When I was a kid in the 60's I remember a time before FM radio.  I had a portable hand transistor radio as a kid and it was my most cherished possession.  Rotary volume and tuning dials on the side with a small speaker. It came with those little plastic ear pieces that was supposed to be some sort of ear bud that was simply ridiculous to use, and the 9 Volt battery was expensive and didn't last that long.  The Beatles sounded great on it.


----------



## livewire

Word.


----------



## TruBrew

I just had lunch with my uncle and cousin who were in town for the day. I can not get too excited yet, but I may be getting some nice speakers to run with my Pioneer amp. We were chatting and I mentioned having an interested in vintage stereo equipment. My cousin told me he has an older pair of Mcintosh speakers he does not use, that he would be willing to ship me. I didn't know they made speakers, but if they are close to the quality of their amps, I am excited.
   
  I told him to let me know what models they were before he sends them to make sure it is worth the shipping cost. Does anyone here have any experience with Mcintosh speakers, I am curious as to the sound they have.


----------



## TruBrew

Does anyone here have any experience with the  Fisher FM-2121. It is a tuner from the late 70's to early 80's. That is all I can find on it. I was curious if anyone knew if this was a lower or higher end model. There is one for sale on the local CL for $40. I don't want to waste $40, but will pick it up if it is a nice piece.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I just had lunch with my uncle and cousin who were in town for the day. I can not get too excited yet, but I may be getting some nice speakers to run with my Pioneer amp. We were chatting and I mentioned having an interested in vintage stereo equipment. My cousin told me he has an older pair of Mcintosh speakers he does not use, that he would be willing to ship me. I didn't know they made speakers, but if they are close to the quality of their amps, I am excited.
> 
> I told him to let me know what models they were before he sends them to make sure it is worth the shipping cost. Does anyone here have any experience with Mcintosh speakers, I am curious as to the sound they have.


 
  Be excited.  However they might sound they are vintage for sure and you probably won't get a chance to run into something like this everyday.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I was born just a few years after the transistor age but before the space age. Before man put any object into space. Man I feel ancient and I'm only 54.  When I was a kid in the 60's I remember a time before FM radio.  I had a portable hand transistor radio as a kid and it was my most cherished possession.  Rotary volume and tuning dials on the side with a small speaker. It came with those little plastic ear pieces that was supposed to be some sort of ear bud that was simply ridiculous to use, and the 9 Volt battery was expensive and didn't last that long.  The Beatles sounded great on it.


 


  I remember camping out in the backyard in the 60s listening to Baltimore Orioles games.  I remember one year a bunch of kids brought the radios into school to listen to the World Series, back before night games in the World Series.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I remember camping out in the backyard in the 60s listening to Baltimore Orioles games.  I remember one year a bunch of kids brought the radios into school to listen to the World Series, back before night games in the World Series.


 

 Was it the Orioles-Mets series because I grew up in NY and I remember listening to those day games on my portable transistor radio.


----------



## scompton

Yeah, that was it.  Horrible series for Baltimore.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





scompton said:


> Yeah, that was it.  Horrible series for Baltimore.


 
   
  Great last catch for Cleon Jones though!


----------



## shipsupt

I ran into something new to me tonight.  I'm hoping someone out there can either set me straight or put me at ease...
   
  Tonight I fired up the SX-650 for some listening.  I warmed things up feeding it from a DAC.  I cleaned up some vinyl and switched from the Aux input to the phono and started listening.  I did not secure the DAC.  I noticed during some quiet passages there was some signal bleeding through from the Aux channel that I could just make out.  Securing the DAC cured the issue...
   
  Is this something I should be worried about?  Is it a sign of something?  Do I need to get it checked out?


----------



## T-Willi

Ahhh makes sense now. Thanks for the brief but very precise history, love learning new stuff about audio gear 
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> Vintage audiophile phones were usually had an impedance in the 300 - 600 ohm range and 1/4 inch plugs.  They wouldn't play well with Walkmans.
> 
> Although, the Walkman didn't come out until the late 70s and I don't remember seeing them everywhere until the early 80s.  When most of the receivers and integrateds talked about in this thread came out, there really wasn't much in the way of portable audio except transistor radios.
> 
> Edit:  I just looked up the history of portable audio.  I didn't realize the first transistor radio came out in 54.


----------



## sesshin

Anyone want to buy my Kenwood KR-9600? $275 would be my price to head-fiers. I'll list it for more on CL or ebay.
   
  Nothing wrong with it at all. Nice condition. Sounds great. Just decided I wanted to go with something else in my system.
   
  Local pick up in LA would be ideal since it weighs close to 70 pounds and is fairly large. Shipping is possible and I'm assuming would be around $100 but I wouldn't know for certain until it was packed up and weighed/measured.
   
  PM me if anyone is interested or has questions.


----------



## moodyrn

That's an outstanding price. I've seen broken ones go for 200ish. I can say that the 9600 competes with the best of them. Someone should really jump on that deal!!


----------



## sluker

YGPM
  
  Quote: 





sesshin said:


> Anyone want to buy my Kenwood KR-9600? $275 would be my price to head-fiers. I'll list it for more on CL or ebay.
> 
> Nothing wrong with it at all. Nice condition. Sounds great. Just decided I wanted to go with something else in my system.
> 
> ...


----------



## BmWr75

I've had this bleed over happen with vintage receivers.  Am pretty sure my Pioneer SX-636 does the same thing.
  
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I ran into something new to me tonight.  I'm hoping someone out there can either set me straight or put me at ease...
> 
> Tonight I fired up the SX-650 for some listening.  I warmed things up feeding it from a DAC.  I cleaned up some vinyl and switched from the Aux input to the phono and started listening.  I did not secure the DAC.  I noticed during some quiet passages there was some signal bleeding through from the Aux channel that I could just make out.  Securing the DAC cured the issue...
> 
> Is this something I should be worried about?  Is it a sign of something?  Do I need to get it checked out?


----------



## mr.khali

Anybody have any experience with a Marantz SR 2000?  I see one locally for a pretty good price.  Is the SR series not popular for a justified reason?
   
   
  Edit:  After doing a quick Google search it seems most of the early 80's gear has a considerable drop off in quality.  The hunt continues.....


----------



## shipsupt

Thank you! I'll rest a little easier...


----------



## wualta

Unless the maker stuck some unity-gain buffer stages in all the inputs, you'll get some very low-level bleed, just as BmWr75 said, and it's normal. The cost-effective technique was to use resistors. Once the high-quality op amp arrived, though, it became cost-effective to use active buffers.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Brasso and Old English are my two best buddies now.


----------



## Skylab

Is brasso really safe to use on the silver-face vintage receivers?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Is brasso really safe to use on the silver-face vintage receivers?


 

 x2, it might take off the lettering


----------



## BournePerfect

Hey guys, I'm picking up a great condition, pots recently cleaned, Kenwood KA-3500 vintage amp this weekend for $50. I figured what the heck at that price I can't go wrong, I was just wondering if anyone can give me an idea of what the headphone out it like. I'm gonna try it with my AD2000s (yeah too sensitive/ impedance mismatch yada yada) but I guarantee it will sound better than than the E-9 did. Holy crap that pairing sounds _terrible_. I'm just desperate for a better amp while I save for a Zana Deux/Decware, and I've always been intrigued by vintage stuff. Thanks!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Is brasso really safe to use on the silver-face vintage receivers?


 


  Seems to be ok but I don't really push it around the lettering. I use it on the grimy knobs and areas without lettering. Then I use something like Fantastik or Windex gently around the lettering. 
   
  What do you recommend?  
   
  Grabbed a Sansui AU 505 today for $26.   I couldn't resist.  Not yet as nice looking as this photo but it will be after I restore it.  Thought it might be a good first project and the price was right in case I completely screw it all up!  I really like the older look of gear that hovers near the end of the 60's and start of the 70's era.


----------



## Skylab

I've only ever used Fantastic type stuff on the metal. Does Brasso get light scratches out for you without messing up the metal otherwise ? If so I might try it.

Looks like a nice score on the Sansui!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've only ever used Fantastic type stuff on the metal. Does Brasso get light scratches out for you without messing up the metal otherwise ? If so I might try it.
> 
> Looks like a nice score on the Sansui!


 


  Don't know about scratches.  Seems to be just a metal cleaner. Not sure if there are abrasives in it.  Doesn't feel that way. if there are they must be very fine.  I'm using it to clean the grime off a Yamaha CR 820.  It had one owner all these years and never moved from one shelf and also had never been cleaned.  It also has no scratches and the use of Brasso didn't leave any scratches.  
   
  While I'm here what is the best DeOxit to use?  I see there are a few different kinds now.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Although Brasso polishes, it does so using abrasives. Very fine abrasives, but abrasives nonetheless. So I wouldn't recommend using it on any lettering.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Although of a bit more recent vintage than what's typically posted in this thread, I recently acquired a little beauty that I immediately fell madly in love with when I first saw her advertised in the pages of the British audio magazine, HiFi News & Record Review back some time in the 90's.
   
  In ways, she reminds me of my first "real" amplifier I bought shortly after starting my first "real" job when I was 16 back in the mid-70's, a Pioneer SA-7700 integrated. Like the 7700 she's smaller than the typical audio component. She's only rated at 50 watts per channel. And she's fairly "minimalist."
   
  I'm speaking of the TEAC A-H500 integrated amplifier (I haven't taken her portrait yet, so I borrowed someone else's):
   

   
  I don't know why it took me so long to finally hook up with her, but ultimately it was worth the wait and she does not disappoint when driving my CS-99a's.
   
  se


----------



## Skylab

Nice. I always liked the look of those little Teacs.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Although of a bit more recent vintage than what's typically posted in this thread, I recently acquired a little beauty that I immediately fell madly in love with when I first saw her advertised in the pages of the British audio magazine, HiFi News & Record Review back some time in the 90's.
> 
> In ways, she reminds me of my first "real" amplifier I bought shortly after starting my first "real" job when I was 16 back in the mid-70's, a Pioneer SA-7700 integrated. Like the 7700 she's smaller than the typical audio component. She's only rated at 50 watts per channel. And she's fairly "minimalist."
> 
> ...


 

 How's the feel on that volume knob?  I just want to turn it when I look at it. As if I'm going to unlock a safe filled with music.


----------



## shipsupt

Awesome! I've always wanted to put together a whole mini Teac stack!


----------



## sesshin

those knobs are just begging to be turned


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How's the feel on that volume knob?  I just want to turn it when I look at it. As if I'm going to unlock a safe filled with music.


 
   
  Very very smoooooth.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Awesome! I've always wanted to put together a whole mini Teac stack!


 

 When I bought the 500, I also bought the PD-H570 seven disc changer. So I've got a partial stack going. Just need to get the tuner.
   
  se


----------



## BournePerfect

Anyone have any impressions on the Kenwood?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## cifani090

Dun,dun,dun. When i saw this i was besides myself, where do i get one? How do i get one? How rare,etc? Have any of you guys seen one like this? I also know of a champagne colored 1050 that was Japanese. I also saw this ebay posting for one. I need one, i seem to be collecting amps with only black faces... thats odd.


----------



## Skylab

I believe the black-faced Pioneers were only sold in Europe, back in the day. The ones you see for sale in the us seem to largely have been purchased by people who were in the US armed forces back then (and stationed in Europe).


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I believe the black-faced Pioneers were only sold in Europe, back in the day. The ones you see for sale in the us seem to largely have been purchased by people who were in the US armed forces back then (and stationed in Europe).


 

 Yup. Skylab, do you know of any resource that lists all the black faced hard to find receivers? Because such amps like Sansui are automatically black, and are not that hard to find.


----------



## Skylab

I doubt there is such a resource, meaning a "list" of that nature.


----------



## mr.khali

I picked up a Sansui 8080 yesterday locally and it is a beast!  You guys are absoulutely right.  Picking up a entry level vintage amp is no indication of what they can do.  I had a Marantz 2225 and it was ok with my AKG 340 and K501.  The sansui is on a whole other level!  Much tighter bass, increased sounstage and just an overall beautiful sound. The only thing wrong with it is the original casing has been replaced with a light wood enclosure. It looks much bettter in the original darker colour.  I am loving the sound but **** it is taking up so much space on my desk. Maybe a Pioneer sx 800 series would be a happy medium between the Marantz and the Sanui without giving up so much space.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mr.khali said:


> I picked up a Sansui 8080 yesterday locally and it is a beast!  You guys are absoulutely right.  Picking up a entry level vintage amp is no indication of what they can do.  I had a Marantz 2225 and it was ok with my AKG 340 and K501.  The sansui is on a whole other level!  Much tighter bass, increased sounstage and just an overall beautiful sound. The only thing wrong with it is the original casing has been replaced with a light wood enclosure. It looks much bettter in the original darker colour.  I am loving the sound but **** it is taking up so much space on my desk. Maybe a Pioneer sx 800 series would be a happy medium between the Marantz and the Sanui without giving up so much space.


 

 Put it up on its side, less space


----------



## supra1988t

My 8080 seems to have a lot of background hiss out of the hp Jack but it sounds pretty good as a speaker amp. I am now using it as a preamp though for a Knight basic 60 tube amp which sounds better than I thought it could.


----------



## scompton

What are you plugging in when you hear hiss.  All of my vintage amps have his with the few low impedance headphones, low sensitivity headphones I own.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I couldn't help myself and I picked up another entry level integrated amp to practice working on for $35.  A Kenwood KA- 3500.  That's pretty much the going price for one  I think I'm going to ruin quite a few amps beofre I get the hang of restoring them so I'm staying on the cheap side for now.
   
  But what I'd really like to find is a bargain on a Sansui AU-9500.   It's love at first sight for me.


----------



## supra1988t

scompton said:


> What are you plugging in when you hear hiss.  All of my vintage amps have his with the few low impedance headphones, low sensitivity headphones I own.




I am listening to Beyerdynamic DT1350s.


----------



## dogwan

Great thread!
   
  Here's a rare on for ya' all. 1972 Hitachi IA-1000 integrated. 50wpc early Mosfet. I've never seen another one in all my searching. To get a copy of the service manual I had to stuff a ten dollar bill in an envelope and mail it to a gent in the countryside of merry old England and wait 4 weeks for a poor photo-copy. Have since had 2 requests for copies of it. One was from Singapore. Ha!
   
  With an excellent phono section this baby sounds wonderful through a pair of Dynaco A-25's. It doesn't see much headphone use, but it seems to like high impedance cans a far sight better than low imp. ones.
   
  (Sorry the last pic is flipped, it seems the forum loader wants to ignore my orientation.)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Nice!  So clean on the inside too.  did you get it refurbished?


----------



## cifani090




----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice!  So clean on the inside too.  did you get it refurbished?


 

 I did the refurb myself, not that it needed much. Recapped and updated some IC's and transistors. Also refinished Rosewood side panels.
   
  -Dogwan


----------



## WarriorAnt

Nice!  did you clean the boards?  Take them apart and out of the unit?  What did you clean them with?


----------



## Skylab

supra1988t said:


> scompton said:
> 
> 
> > What are you plugging in when you hear hiss.  All of my vintage amps have his with the few low impedance headphones, low sensitivity headphones I own.
> ...




Those are VERY efficient headphones. You should engage the "Audio Muting -20dB" button when you listen to those. It will reduce or even eliminate the hiss, and give you more range on the volume control. I use that on my Sansui 9090 for headphone listening, works wonders.


----------



## wualta

_HITACHI HA-7700 INTEGRATED AMP_
   
  Dogwan, the 50w/ch power-MOSFET Hitachi integrated you're thinking of might be this one: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=884355&postcount=8  Power MOSFETs in amps and receivers didn't hit the market til 1978. Anything earlier than that was using small-signal MOSFETs in an input stage.


----------



## supra1988t

Thanks, I'll give that a try.


----------



## mr.khali

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those are VERY efficient headphones. You should engage the "Audio Muting -20dB" button when you listen to those. It will reduce or even eliminate the hiss, and give you more range on the volume control. I use that on my Sansui 9090 for headphone listening, works wonders.


 

 Very true.  My Beyer DT 150's received the most benefit from using the Audio muting but even the AKG K340 is better with it on.  As huge as the Sansui 8080 is it is not going anywhere.  That is unless I like the Pioneer sound more.


----------



## moodyrn

That was shocking to me that I had to use the mute button on with my k340s on the pioneer. The kenwood also have the -20db mute button, but is dead silent with everything, including low impedance high sensitivity cans. But the headphone out isn't nearly as powerful as my pioneer though. It still has just enough juice for the he-6 and can power anything else effortlessly.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Dogwan, the 50w/ch power-MOSFET Hitachi integrated you're thinking of might be this one: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=884355&postcount=8  Power MOSFETs in amps and receivers didn't hit the market til 1978. Anything earlier than that was using small-signal MOSFETs in an input stage.


 

 You're probably right, I think I confused a long ago discussion.
   
  Here's a good description of the amp....
http://audio-database.com/Lo-D-HITACHI/amp/ia-1000-e.html
   

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Nice!  did you clean the boards?  Take them apart and out of the unit?  What did you clean them with?


 

 Naw, luckily enough the unit was pristine inside. Just a few blasts of canned air with a small brush was all it took to get the job done


----------



## T-Willi

Was at the Eastbrook flea market in Montgomery, Alabama and picked up a Pioneer SX-780 for $66. The place had 3 floors and I (quite literally lol) searched the place top to bottom looking for it. I saw an old Stereophonic brand receiver with integrated 8 track player but I wasn't looking for something like that so I just ignored it. The internals are kinda dusty but a good blowout from the air compressor will solve that. I'll get pics once I get home. 

Also I think as a project I'll replace the wood panels for something nicer and more elegant looking


----------



## Skylab

If it works well that is a major score. Congrats!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





t-willi said:


> Was at the Eastbrook flea market in Montgomery, Alabama and picked up a Pioneer SX-780 for $66. The place had 3 floors and I (quite literally lol) searched the place top to bottom looking for it. I saw an old Stereophonic brand receiver with integrated 8 track player but I wasn't looking for something like that so I just ignored it. The internals are kinda dusty but a good blowout from the air compressor will solve that. I'll get pics once I get home.
> 
> Also I think as a project I'll replace the wood panels for something nicer and more elegant looking


 
  Hey I got a dawg down in Montgomery I might have to send him down into that flea market with a smart phone and have him dig me up a few treasures!


----------



## Skylab

Interesting article here, where in a blind test, people preferred the Pioneer SX-1980 over a well-regarded modern Yamaha receiver

http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/art_receiver_shootout.htm


----------



## WarriorAnt

well i finally finished cleaning the inside and the outside of the Yamaha CR-820 I picked up for $75 locally.  It took a lot of tender care to get the decades of finger grime and dust out of the unit.  I hooked it up to my my DAC-2 and plugged in a set of cans and **** the volume was way too low and not only that just one side was working.  Then I realized that when I turned on the DAC-2 I accidentally changed the balance function of DAC-2 to right channel only AND I had the DAC-2 preamp volume at half volume. Whew!  So I straightened it all out and the unit sounds great.   After cleaning the unit inside and out for days it looks absolutely brand new.  Nice to find a unit that went up on one shelf years ago and stayed there until the day came when I hauled it away.
   
  It has a different sound than the Marantz 2215b which is more lush and smooth in terms of warmth.  The Yamaha DR-820 is more analytical, closer to sterile but not sterile. That would imply a lack of life in some way and that is not the case.  The sound is not strident either just more detailed yet it is still smooth.    I'm using my daughters Audio Technica ATH AD700 and her Grado 80is. With the Yamaha and as with the Marantz 2215b they pair amazingly well.  These cans have good synergy with these receivers.   I have to say that this Yamaha puts out better sound than should ever be expected from a $75 investment if you know what I mean.
   
   
  I have a few questions about the units from the 70's.   Are  the AUX in and the Tape in using the same line stage in these receivers?  I'm thinking this is generally the case in most instances but I am not sure. 
   
   
  I love how so many units from the Yamaha has separate Bass, Presence, Treble, and Loudness controls.  Got to love that dedication for frequency controls.
   
  One question about my loudness control on the Yamaha CR-820.   The The knob goes clockwise in this manner.  9. 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, FLAT.    
   
  FLAT being the extreme right of the dial which seems to imply that loudness can only be dialed back not added.  i've never seen this type of implementation before.
   
  One more thing, something i did not realize until it was too late.  I was going to use this unit in my home theater setup up for its headphone out so I could watch high def TV at night and not disturb my family.  Too late for that! I didn't realize that the Yamaha is way wider than the rack I'm using.   
   
  Maybe the two vintage integrated amps I have arriving by the end of the week will fit.  The Marantz fits well but the display is just too bright, beautiful as that bluish light is.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Interesting article here, where in a blind test, people preferred the Pioneer SX-1980 over a well-regarded modern Yamaha receiver
> 
> http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/art_receiver_shootout.htm


 


  I read that last night.


----------



## Skylab

Tape inputs can be used for any line-level source component, yes.

Yamaha's loudness controls were very well implemented I thought. The whole point of a loudness control is to compensate for Fletcher-Munson when listening at lower levels. So the ideal is that you start at flat and a nice loud level, and then when you have to turn the volume down, don't do it with the volume control,do it with the loudness control! Very smart.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Tape inputs can be used for any line-level source component, yes.
> 
> Yamaha's loudness controls were very well implemented I thought. The whole point of a loudness control is to compensate for Fletcher-Munson when listening at lower levels. So the ideal is that you start at flat and a nice loud level, and then when you have to turn the volume down, don't do it with the volume control,do it with the loudness control! Very smart.


 
  Is  Yamaha the only one to implement a loudness control in this manner?


----------



## Skylab

The only one I know of. All the rest increase bass and treble but do not simultaneously reduce overall volume the way the Yamaha smartly does.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I tried the Yamaha CR-820 with the LCD-2s and It held it own.  It wasn't the V200 by any measure but it didn't embarrass it self either.  The LCD shows the receivers weak areas and they can be more noticeable than not with those cans.  But with the Audio Technica's ATH AD 700's and the Grado 80i's it is a better match for sure.  Those cans sound so much better at that level than when I tried them with the V200.  With the V200 they seem like toys compared to the LCDs.  
   
  Next up on my vintage scene is the final cleaning of the Marantz 2115b and pairing it with the Bose 301 Series II speakers I found at the goodwill.  My refoaming kit for the Advents I found there has not yet arrived.  Those will need more of a refurb. Going to refinish the cabinets and if I feel ambitious recap the crossovers.
   
  But the Marantz 2215b and the Bose 301's will be set up for better sound out of one of my flat screens for TV viewing..   That's a $20 set up!  $5 for the 2215b and $14.99 for the Bose 301's at the Goodwill.   I already had stands I dug up from the far reaches of my garage and I filled them with sand this week.


----------



## T-Willi

@WarriorAnt Yeah man you should definitely ask him to swing by. Here's a status report on the 780. It has a slight amount of static when I change the volume but that will be fixed by some deoxit otherwise it sounds great! Also Im gonna post some before and after dusting pictures. Quite sure yall will be amazed by the amount of dust haha. The dust was almost like snow before I cleaned it. Oh and sorry for the poopy pics they were taken with my ipod
   
   
   
  before

   

   
  after


----------



## publicholiday

wow, good job, wat did u use to clean the circuit board?


----------



## T-Willi

Just an air compressor, hard paintbrush, and soft paintbrush


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





t-willi said:


> Just an air compressor, hard paintbrush, and soft paintbrush


 

 Congrats, did you test it when you bought it, or did you just go on instinct? Turn it from a $66 piece of equipment to a $100-140 piece of equipment. Not to shabby


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





t-willi said:


>


 

 Wow. You can almost hear sleigh bells. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## T-Willi

SE Im sure Rudolph went flying out of there during the cleanup too haha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Hmm. Guess I did go by instinct to be honest. At the store when I was just giving it a general inspection, I turned it on and changed its mode to FM. Messed with the tuner dial and noticed it had a signal (the little gauge type things on the left side of the reciver moves around when theres a signal.) so that way I atleast knew that the channels worked and the FM worked. I would have gone back to my car real quick to grab my headphones and test it but there was another guy with his eye on the receiver near me that looked like he was interested in it also so I really didnt want to come back and find it gone. So I bit the bullet, took it to the clerk and bought it


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





t-willi said:


> SE Im sure Rudolph went flying out of there during the cleanup too haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey it fine, i did the same thing while i bought my last vintage receivers. I just do it to get it done faster.


----------



## blur510

Quick question to those with multiple receivers and one source, how do you guys have your rigs connected? I only have 1 dac and I have 2 receivers that I want to use, and I find moving the RCA cables from one receiver to the other a little inconvenient.


----------



## TruBrew

Most have some sort of output on them, so you can run one to another. My SX has an "Adapter" out. My Leben has a "Recording" out. If your gear doesn't have something like that you could always buy a RCA splitter.


----------



## scompton

My DAC has 2 outputs, but I have all the parts to do a switch box.  Eventually, I'll get around to making it.


----------



## blur510

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> Most have some sort of output on them, so you can run one to another. My SX has an "Adapter" out. My Leben has a "Recording" out. If your gear doesn't have something like that you could always buy a RCA splitter.


 


  My SX 1010 doesn't have an adapter out. will using a splitter degrade the signal?


----------



## TruBrew

Yours has a "4CHANNEL" out. I honestly have no idea what that mean, but my guess is it will work the same. I did some searching and could not find out what 4Chanel referes to, maybe someone else here knows. 
   
  The Vampire RCA slitters are supposed to be very nice. I doubt you would hear a difference either way, but my guess is the Y splitter would theoretically be better. That is just my guess based on the fact that the wire is shorter than it likely is inside the receiver. I have never actually tried to compair, as I don't own any splitters.
   
  http://www.vampirewire.com/pc-110-30-y.aspx


----------



## WarriorAnt

So does SONY get any love for vintage receivers from the 70's?   I'm not seeing much on the market.


----------



## livewire

No.


----------



## WarriorAnt

What is the deal with Speaker Plugs?   I've seen these listed here and there.  Never heard of them. Was it a fad for a while and then dropped?


----------



## Skylab

I have a Sony STR-7800sd which is a powerful 70's receiver. Looks pretty nice, but the sound was a disappointment. Could have just been my sample. It's downstairs in the workout area of my basement,where it gets used exactly once a week...


----------



## cifani090

Everyone who reads this needs to watch #41 of this wonderfully informative podcast. Did you know Fisher was the first Hi-Fi company?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> My SX 1010 doesn't have an adapter out. will using a splitter degrade the signal?


 
  Hey blur510, the 1010 does. In fact it has two sets. Look towards the bottom and you will see a group of rca's marked adapter. With in that group you will see 4 ch out(of course you don't have two use 4 channels since the output is stereo anyway), and dolby(and you don't have to use dolby). Also in addition to the two sets of adapter outputs, you still have two sets of tape outs on the back, giving you a total of 4 stereo output pairs. This receiver has everything covered. I have used rca in from my marantz into the pioneer and separate outs to both my kenwood and fisher. Also I can't hear any difference with using the pioneer as an "rca switcher" and using the outputs from the marantz directly into the fisher or kenwood.


----------



## blur510

thanks!!!  I will be hooking up my Sansui G7000 to my Pioneer SX 1010. They have different sound signatures. to I guess I am all set...
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Hey blur510, the 1010 does. In fact it has two sets. Look towards the bottom and you will see a group of rca's marked adapter. With in that group you will see 4 ch out(of course you don't have two use 4 channels since the output is stereo anyway), and dolby(and you don't have to use dolby). Also in addition to the two sets of adapter outputs, you still have two sets of tape outs on the back, giving you a total of 4 stereo output pairs. This receiver has everything covered. I have used rca in from my marantz into the pioneer and separate outs to both my kenwood and fisher. Also I can't hear any difference with using the pioneer as an "rca switcher" and using the outputs from the marantz directly into the fisher or kenwood.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> Although Brasso polishes, it does so using abrasives. Very fine abrasives, but abrasives nonetheless. So I wouldn't recommend using it on any lettering.


 

  I wouldn't even use it on painted, highly polished metal surface or metal adjacent to glass (like the fascia of a receiver). Otherwise it is pretty good at cleaning flat grained metal surfaces.
   
  Aluminum facades aren't going to corrode or tarnish easily (an aluminum surface oxidizes and hardens within moments of exposure, protecting it from deeper corrosion), and will usually clean up with detergents. If a steel facade is corroding, Brasso isn't going to help.
   
  Some rags or paper towels, some Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Soap, and a little work is almost always going to do the job. And it'll smell nice when you're done.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So does SONY get any love for vintage receivers from the 70's?   I'm not seeing much on the market.


 

 Much of Sony's really good stuff (as well as a number of other Japanese brands) was never marketed outside of Japan.
   
  se


----------



## Hero Kid

Any general thoughts on 70s to early 80s Luxman equipment? More specifically mid to upper tier amps...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> I wouldn't even use it on painted, highly polished metal surface or metal adjacent to glass (like the fascia of a receiver). Otherwise it is pretty good at cleaning flat grained metal surfaces.
> 
> ...


 

 I used brasso on the brushed aluminum of my marantz and on my Yamaha.  Because I am compulsive and too curious for my own good I used it on all the lettering.  Nothing happened.  I actually found that I had to rub a lot harder to get the years of grime and nicotine of the units when using windex or fantasitk than with Brasso.  With the brasso I only had to gently rub  it on to get the grime off and it came off easy.   I also tried the clean the Marantz metal cover that has a vinyl simulated pattern.  Nothing was getting the grime off.  The Brasso did it right away with gentle rubbing no damage.  I think the ammonia in the brasso is what might be doing the cleaning.    This is the Brasso I used.  I think it is different than normal Brasso.  
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  I haven't used it on any plastic.   I'll look for the peppermint soap since I have two units coming in this week.
   Depending on their condition I'm going to take out the boards and clean them.  Any suggestions?   I saw this one restoration site where the guy cleaned the component side of the board with windex and the trace side with a chemical wash.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Here is what I found on cleaning PCB boards.
   
  http://www.cdkands.com/onk4.html


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Any general thoughts on 70s to early 80s Luxman equipment? More specifically mid to upper tier amps...


 


  Based on my experience with R1120a and R-113, I would sing the praise fro Luxman. Oh, I have two Luxman  cassette deck, and they all sound well. I would highly recommend Luxman to anyone, especially pre 1986 when it was acquired by Alpine. But R-115 and R-117 are regards top five receiver in 80's by AK members. No vintage stuff I heard has smoothness and wide sound-stage as Luxman R1120a.


----------



## mr.khali

Quote: 





blur510 said:


> thanks!!!  I will be hooking up my Sansui G7000 to my Pioneer SX 1010. They have different sound signatures. to I guess I am all set...


 
   
  I am curious if the Sansui G7000 has the same warm signature as the 8080/9090.  How does it compare with your Sx 1010 with the headphone out?


----------



## blur510

I Don't know how it compares to the 8080/9090, but I know it's definitely warmer sounding than the SX 1010. More bass, a little less air. Sorry I am not really good at describing sounds. 
  
  Quote: 





mr.khali said:


> I am curious if the Sansui G7000 has the same warm signature as the 8080/9090.  How does it compare with your Sx 1010 with the headphone out?


----------



## mr.khali

Hmmmm..... I guess it is Pioneer hunting season.


----------



## WNBC

Sansui AU-11000 and TU-9900
   
  http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/ele/2518376473.html
   
  Out of my league but somebody should buy it so that I know it has a nice home


----------



## Hero Kid

If I listen to the Tape Monitor on my old Luxman at high volumes... I can hear a radio station. It doesn't have an inbuilt tuner so I'm a bit confused. Is this a normal phenomenon?


----------



## T-Willi

I dont think it is. Could just be a randm interferance/signal that just so happens to hit your receiver haha. Even though this isnt a receiver an old TV (bout  20ish years old) of my stepdads would pickup random police reports haha. Heard some crazzzzzzy stuff lol


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Sansui AU-11000 and TU-9900
> 
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/ele/2518376473.html
> 
> Out of my league but somebody should buy it so that I know it has a nice home


 


 Not a bad price, also got a guy local to me with a 11000 for $700.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> Any general thoughts on 70s to early 80s Luxman equipment? More specifically mid to upper tier amps...


 


  The 70s are the ones to get, there are some interesting ones from the 80s like the tube hybrids but, from my personal experience with the L-215/235 I would pass.  If you want something from the 80s and similar in the price but with more power and better presentation look into Harman Kardon gear, the off silver champagne, excellent sounding gear for the price when compared with Luxman.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Just got a Sansui AU-505 integrated amp in the house.  Grabbed it on eBay for $26.  Needs some cleaning, haven't opened it up yet, wanted to see if it was working  and if so how it sounds first.  Wow. Does it sound excellent. Very impressive sound.  I'm wondering if all Sansui gear is of this excellent quality. this unit is certainly more beefy and well built than I thought it was going to be.  Drives the LCD's in a respectable manner also.   I hear there are Teak wood panels floating around the web for this model...
   
   
  Not my pic but is a good photo of the unit.  The unit I picked up is in very good shape and should look similar after a day or so of detailing.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Been listening now for about two hours to the Sansui and I have to admit I am impressed.  These vintage units really do have a lot to offer. I also have to admit that I have been humbled if not embarrassed by the vintage scene.  I  used to thumb my nose at this sort of gear. I guess I was a bit of a snob with my Audio Research, Krell, CJ, Classe,  or whatever high end gear and I would have never given this gear even a look.  But boy was I wrong. Totally wrong. Completely wrong.  The vintage gear can sound excellent and you don't even have to get the big boys in the line ups.  I certainly don't have anything from the top of the lines and I am impressed. I can only imagine what the top sounds like.  I am happy though to spend as little as I have been to get the units that so far seem to slip under the financial net of the higher prices some of the gear is commanding.  The lower price stuff sounds good also.  Also I think that some of this gear is actually more powerful than the modest power rating the manufacturer has given some of this gear.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, WA. Great score at that price. Congrats man. When you get her all cleaned up let's have some pics!


----------



## RedBull

What a beauty WA, + ONLY $26?  you're at luck.  Ok, now's my turn to ebay ...


----------



## tink97

Evening everyone,
   
  Does anyone know if a Harmon kardon 430 twin powered receiver rated at 25 watts would have enough juice to run speakers that are 40 watts minium?  reason i ask is because it seems that these old receivers gave out more juice than what they were rated at.
   
  Anyways any help would be wonderful thank you all and have  a good one
   
  Tink97


----------



## Skylab

It would likely work fine in a smaller room, and if you don't want to blast them.  The biggest problem, contrary to what many believe, is having too LITTLE amplifier power, not too much.  With too little power, if you drive the amp into clipping, you are very likely to fry a driver.  With an amp more powerful than the speakers are rated for, the odds are your ears would give up before the speakers would.  It is possible to fry drivers with too much power, but an underpowered amp that starts to clip is much more likely to do so.


----------



## RexAeterna

tink97 said:


> Evening everyone,
> 
> Does anyone know if a Harmon kardon 430 twin powered receiver rated at 25 watts would have enough juice to run speakers that are 40 watts minium?  reason i ask is because it seems that these old receivers gave out more juice than what they were rated at.
> 
> ...




it'll be fine. watts mean very little unless your trying to have a huge party or so forth. it's the speakers senstivity@1w what matters the most. most people barely listen above 1w anyways. it's the impedance dips you'll have to be more concern about the most especially if the speaker dips below 4ohms then you need to worry if your amp has large enough power transformer to handle heavy current loads but lot of speakers are 8ohm nominal anyways so you should be fine. what speakers you be using btw?


----------



## tink97

Hey guys thank you that helps alot,  
   
  I just had found this one and it sounds really great!  I will actually be in a small room and dont really plan on blasting it since i live in an apartment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I have a set of vapor audio "Breeze" bookshelf speakers, it can be found at Vaporsound.com
   
  Thank you guys again it helped alot in making my decision.
   
  Tink97


----------



## mythless

Don't forget those HK 430 are high current amps, great for efficient speakers.  Very nice units.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





redbull said:


> What a beauty WA, + ONLY $26?  you're at luck.  Ok, now's my turn to ebay ...


 

 The key is patience.  Also while most folks go for the big boys I like the smaller lesser coveted models as collectors items and because I plan on taking them apart to learn from them. This Sansui however I will not be experimenting upon.  I'm keeping this one for real refurbishment.  I have a Kenwood integrated amp coming in this tuesday.  If the sound is just ok then I will take that amp apart and experiment on it.
   
  Don't forget you local Craigs list.  Lots to be found there if your'e patient.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> The key is patience.  Also while most folks go for the big boys I like the smaller lesser coveted models as collectors items and because I plan on taking them apart to learn from them. This Sansui however I will not be experimenting upon.  I'm keeping this one for real refurbishment.  I have a Kenwood integrated amp coming in this tuesday.  If the sound is just ok then I will take that amp apart and experiment on it.
> 
> Don't forget you local Craigs list.  Lots to be found there if your'e patient.


 

 The thing is with craigslist, is that especially over here in the motor city, their are quite a few audio resellers. So for me to get a good deal, its very hard because i like to be able to not just break even, but make a small amount of interest on it. What amps do you have Warrior?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> The thing is with craigslist, is that especially over here in the motor city, their are quite a few audio resellers. So for me to get a good deal, its very hard because i like to be able to not just break even, but make a small amount of interest on it. What amps do you have Warrior?


 
  I've only just begun to collect vintage.  I have a Marantz 2215B which was in excellent condition when I bought it at a yard sale for $5.  This is the unit that started the bug.  I brought it home plugged in a few headphones and my daughter and I were enlightened.  I use it now with a pair of Bose 301 sereis II speakers I got at the goodwill for $15.00 with one of my flat screen set ups, at night i watch TV with a set of cans while everyone is asleep.
   
  The second unit I found was on local ebay.  A grandfather was given some kind of Bose system by his grandkids and he was selling his equipment in order to turn over the proceeds to local charity.  So I grabbed his Yamaha CR-820 for $75.  At first I didn't appreciate the looks of the unit until I spent some time detailing it and then I came to enjoy the Yamaha look.  It is one of those large receivers, sounds nice and has excellent tone controls which include Bass, Presence, Treble, and a Loudness control  which dials backwards.
   
  Then I picked up this Sansui AU 505 which I really love.  Not just for the sound but I love that Sansui black look.   I had to pass up a rare silver faced Sansui last week which I wish I'd gotten but...
   
  Next week I have a Kenwood coming in.  the Kenwood is probably going to be my training unit for recapping and such.
   
  For me I've found some audio resellers on craigs list and actually  a lot of various receivers for sale by regular folk.   But I've determined for myself to find the units that have a visual appeal for me.  I could splurge for some big boys but for me in the end I'm not going to use it enough to justify one that is expensive unless I can get it really cheap. So I wait with patience. When I get better at restoring then I'll venture into the upper echelon.
   
  I'm also not collecting with an eye on the equipment increasing in value for resale later on.  If that is your intent then probably the best measure is patience because any experienced reseller is going to get top value from you and it will be hard to resell again for profit. And the thing with the resellers I've seen is that they are not always offering units that have been guaranteed refurbished, often they are just hiking the price as selling to ravenous collectors.  
   
  I'm also looking  for the right unit to buy that is a tube unit.  Something simple and not too depleted physically.  Recently I found one of those companies that does Estate sales and I was told that they often have old gear for sale at these sales.  We'll see, where I live in Arizona they have a lot of retirement communities and these are what generate the estate sales with ancient gear.


----------



## tink97

Hey all I want to thank everyone who gave input on my question about a receiver and speaker match.
   
  I got the Harman Kardon 430 Twin Powered and i have to say they work very well with my Vapor Audio "Breeze" speakers.  I have been reading this thread since it first was started and its what led me to get a vintage receiver for now..
   
  Thank you all i will try to get a photo of my setup when I get my camera back
   
  Tink97


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> The key is patience.  Also while most folks go for the big boys I like the smaller lesser coveted models as collectors items and because I plan on taking them apart to learn from them. This Sansui however I will not be experimenting upon.  I'm keeping this one for real refurbishment.  I have a Kenwood integrated amp coming in this tuesday.  If the sound is just ok then I will take that amp apart and experiment on it.
> 
> Don't forget you local Craigs list.  Lots to be found there if your'e patient.




i agree. i like little amps as well. even tho i have some big amps capable of low impedance under 4ohm loads i like my little hitachi ha-2 amp. got it for 5 bucks. it sounds fine with speakers but kicks the protection circuit real quick if pushed since my speakers are under 8ohms on avg. but it's one of the cleanest and best dedicated headamp i ever used for 600ohm headphones. the little guy shines really well with headphones,even low impedance headphones as well it does great so i use it all the time as my dedicated headamp.

i wouldn't disregard these little amps and even lot of mid to late 80's amps either cause they are how you put it... ''you can't judge a book by it's cover'', cause lot of them might not be fancy or have pretty shiny knobs but they can sound just as good or better compared to some 70's gear and bigger models. 

me personally only buy the big boys for speaker driving and use my extra little guys to get the headphone duty done.


----------



## roadcykler

Just picked up one of these today. It's missing 2 knobs but the price was right and I know the guy who sold it to me knows his electronics and has checked it all out. He also sold me 4 Realistic 2a speakers with the electrostatic tweeters. They sound nice for 40 or 50 year old speakers.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> Just picked up one of these today. It's missing 2 knobs but the price was right and I know the guy who sold it to me knows his electronics and has checked it all out. He also sold me 4 Realistic 2a speakers with the electrostatic tweeters. They sound nice for 40 or 50 year old speakers.


 

 Very MCM!


----------



## wualta

Yay MCM! I'm pretty MCM myself. Also a fan of Michigan's Architect Laureate. But architecture aside...
  By way of underlining it, I'm going to pick up on WA's idea of going for not-quite-TOTL as a strategy of moving a vintage purchase back down the curve toward the sweet spot and away from the point of diminishing returns, and recommend something that, if you can find it, will give you a lot of bang for your buck: the 80w/ch Sony TA-F606ES integrated with a MOSFET output stage. It occupies the happy position of being the bottom of a very TOTL trio of amps Sony threw on the table back in the early '90s, so it's not new (no digital anything), not vintage (doesn't look like an SX-1280), not anything, so it flies under the radar, and prices are, so far, low. The amp is solid but the preamp is so basic you might want to look around for something a little more versatile. Take a look:


----------



## publicholiday

jz scored myself a sansui au 101 and sansui 2000x, sweet sounding little units...im getting speakers and is it sufficient for 39 watts to drive mission m32i? or should i go lower power speakers?


----------



## RexAeterna

publicholiday said:


> jz scored myself a sansui au 101 and sansui 2000x, sweet sounding little units...im getting speakers and is it sufficient for 39 watts to drive mission m32i? or should i go lower power speakers?




it'll be more then fine. the sansui late 60's, early 70's amps are more powerful then you think by looking at the specs. i have the TOTL during that series(5000x) and it's a wonderful receiver capable of driving heavy loads. the 2000x should do the same but has less wattage output. what i mean by heavy loads tho is impedance. i driven 3.5ohm nominal load on my 5000x for an hour hard and it didn't even break a sweat. the x000 series is a wonderful series. lot of people try to say they are warm and tube like but i think not personally cause my 5000x is very clean sounding and accurate with my speakers and headphones. drives 600ohm headphones effortlessly as well. 2000x should do the same. the x000 series is a keeper. lot of people also find the x000 series better sounding than lot of marantz and pioneer gear.


----------



## publicholiday

so as long the speaker is 8 ohms, that shouldn't be a problem right


----------



## RexAeterna

publicholiday said:


> so as long the speaker is 8 ohms, that shouldn't be a problem right




yes. ohms determine how hard it is to drive. watts just mean power given into specific sensitivity or for sound pressure levels can be achieved. watts mean very little when it comes to either the amps or speakers performance. as long as the speaker is not like 2ohm or lower nominal then it should be fine.


----------



## RexAeterna

well my sansui 5000x is back from the dead after a month it's been sitting around. the bias and voltage pots were bad and needed replacement. that's why when i kept adjusting the bias back down it would just sky rocket up and blow fuse in right channel and then fried the output transistors. i forgot how powerful and clean sounding this amp was. happy to have it up and running once again. also drives my 600ohm akg 240 sextetts and 240DF's efforlessly. no frequency imbalances at high volumes and continue to sound very clean so that means i am dropping more then enough voltage down but it's understandable cause my sansui's headphone output is of course 680ohms.

it also has insane power for low impedance speakers. you know power when your amp is drawing crazy currents and causing everything to dim in your house making a little light show when rocking out . i actually blew out circuit breakers with this and my big yamaha r-9 amp lol.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> well my sansui 5000x is back from the dead after a month it's been sitting around. the bias and voltage pots were bad and needed replacement. that's why when i kept adjusting the bias back down it would just sky rocket up and blow fuse in right channel and then fried the output transistors. i forgot how powerful and clean sounding this amp was. happy to have it up and running once again. also drives my 600ohm akg 240 sextetts and 240DF's efforlessly. no frequency imbalances at high volumes and continue to sound very clean so that means i am dropping more then enough voltage down but it's understandable cause my sansui's headphone output is of course 680ohms.
> 
> it also has insane power for low impedance speakers. you know power when your amp is drawing crazy currents and causing everything to dim in your house making a little light show when rocking out . i actually blew out circuit breakers with this and my big yamaha r-9 amp lol.


 

 Where did you send it out?   I'm looking to send out my Sansui 505.


----------



## RexAeterna

i had local shop repair it for me called audio-tronics. i live in south jersey. do you know any local shops in your area you ever checked out? when you calls stores you might run into lazy techs cause i had that issue where they would tell me it's not worth fixing these amps and parts are not avaiable anymore cause they're too old(which is a bunch of crap)


----------



## scompton

For some amps, parts really aren't available, especially transistors.


----------



## RexAeterna

scompton said:


> For some amps, parts really aren't available, especially transistors.




true. most of them tho you can order just about anything. only amps i know of that if it dies then your out of luck is vintage yamaha amps. reason why yamaha is not as popular in the vintage series. i think some of sansui had some unique and complex designs as well that makes them impossible to repair(especially the doby boards)..


----------



## WarriorAnt

I like my Sansui AU 505 so much I might buy another one I saw that is selling just for parts.
   
  Got in a Kenwood KA 3500 last night.  Haven't heard it yet. Got it for $35.  Looks to be in great shape.  Nice and dirty though the way I like them.  Something about detailing the vintage gear clean is a soothing exercise for me.


----------



## Kabat

Just got a pair of fully refurbished HD 600s and I've been using them with my Sansui AU-2200, I'm really impressed with the sound from the headphone out of this little amp. I expected these to require more juice than the 555s given the higher impedance but I never need to turn my volume above 9:30/10:00. Beautiful, clear highs, tight bass and a very musical sound.
   
  My only issue with it -- something I've been trying to ignore for a while, actually -- is a sort of pop that happens in the right channel. It only happens within 5 minutes of turning the amp on and then stops. It gets louder with increased volume and I've checked everything else in my chain to be sure it's really from the amp. I've cleaned out all the pots and inputs with deoxit and looked around inside the amp for anything obviously open/broken/burned but everything looks fine. I assume this points to a cap problem or something else to do with degraded circa-1975 components, right?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kabat said:


> Just got a pair of fully refurbished HD 600s and I've been using them with my Sansui AU-2200, I'm really impressed with the sound from the headphone out of this little amp. I expected these to require more juice than the 555s given the higher impedance but I never need to turn my volume above 9:30/10:00. Beautiful, clear highs, tight bass and a very musical sound.
> 
> My only issue with it -- something I've been trying to ignore for a while, actually -- is a sort of pop that happens in the right channel. It only happens within 5 minutes of turning the amp on and then stops. It gets louder with increased volume and I've checked everything else in my chain to be sure it's really from the amp. I've cleaned out all the pots and inputs with deoxit and looked around inside the amp for anything obviously open/broken/burned but everything looks fine. I assume this points to a cap problem or something else to do with degraded circa-1975 components, right?


 
  I found this link about Sansui gear.  It doesn't have anything to do with your problem but it's kind of an interesting history, and I wanted to get in somewhere that I lived in New Rochelle NY for 12 years.1980-92 and not derail the thread too much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  http://www.sansui.us/Amplifiers.htm


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

With my Marantz 2240 I've noticed some strange intermittent crackling in my right headphone when I use my 600 ohm AKG K240M, but not with my 32 ohm Grado HF-2.  It takes a minute or two before it starts crackiling over the music, and once it starts I can switch to the Grados and it goes away.  The speaker outputs sound just fine, as does the tape loop out into another amp.  Prior to this the only issue with the amp was noisy controls that are quiet when left alone, which hasn't been a problem for me.
   
  I haven't had time to try my other phones yet, but was wondering if someone thought this was something that having the amp refurbished/recapped would fix?


----------



## jc9394

How's Sansui AU-7700 or Marantz 2215B for HD800 and LCD-2? No experience on vintage amps.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> How's Sansui AU-7700 or Marantz 2215B for HD800 and LCD-2? No experience on vintage amps.


 


  I have the 2215B  It's excellent for the Grado 80i and Audio Technica ATH AD 700's.  Really good synergy there but nothing stellar with the LCD's  
   
  I have recently acquired the Sansui AU 505 which is not top of the line but it really impressed me with the LCD's. It is giving my headphone amp a run for its money just falling shy of high end.   I'm not one to speculate because I'd rather post from experience but if I had to I'd bet that anything up the line with Sansui  would be good with the LCD.  At least that's what I'm betting on because I'm looking for something up the line in Sansui land after hearing the AU 505.


----------



## RexAeterna

jc9394 said:


> How's Sansui AU-7700 or Marantz 2215B for HD800 and LCD-2? No experience on vintage amps.




for lcd2 i can't answer but hd800's i might be able to help a bit(power wise). the thing to look into amps is the resistors used at the headphone out. there is resistors always between the power amp section and headphone out to prevent full power to be sent and possibly damage the headphone drivers. higher the value of resistor usually means better cause that means high output impedance and higher output impedance means more voltage is dropped down from the power amp section but thing is can be bad with some low impedance headphones cause no matter of input impedance(headphone) you plug in, the same amount of voltage will always be dropped down..

the sansui uses from the schematics 220ohm@1w resistors basically meaning if headphone plugged in of 220ohms you can drive up to 1w of power to it from the power amp section. also means there will only be enough voltage to be dropped down for 220ohm usage. the marantz uses 150ohm resistors(cause it's a 15wpc amp). 

to give a hint. usually amps around 60wpc(real watts meaning amps that were actually measured at 20hz-20khz) will always be equipped with at least 680ohm resistors but there is rare occasions that some low powered amps are equipped with high valued resistors. you can always replace the resistors yourself or have someone to do it or possibly make a DIY headphone to speaker amp adapter.

other then headphone use either amp will probably be wonderful for speakers but being a sansui fan i say the sansui has the upper hand not only cause of more power output but was made around the ''DC'' era of amps which are known to have the cleanest signals around.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> for lcd2 i can't answer but hd800's i might be able to help a bit(power wise). the thing to look into amps is the resistors used at the headphone out. there is resistors always between the power amp section and headphone out to prevent full power to be sent and possibly damage the headphone drivers. higher the value of resistor usually means better cause that means high output impedance and higher output impedance means more voltage is dropped down from the power amp section but thing is can be bad with some low impedance headphones cause no matter of input impedance(headphone) you plug in, the same amount of voltage will always be dropped down..
> 
> the sansui uses from the schematics 220ohm@1w resistors basically meaning if headphone plugged in of 220ohms you can drive up to 1w of power to it from the power amp section. also means there will only be enough voltage to be dropped down for 220ohm usage. the marantz uses 150ohm resistors(cause it's a 15wpc amp).
> 
> ...


 

 Nice post.  What replacement resistor might one use in the 2215B for the LCD.


----------



## publicholiday

what do u guys think about marantz 2226?


----------



## T-Willi

Its a very good receiver. I first used it with my headphones and I loved the sound it gives. To be honest I prefer it for headphone listening compared to my sx-780 which I like to use for my speakers.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> With my Marantz 2240 I've noticed some strange intermittent crackling in my right headphone when I use my 600 ohm AKG K240M, but not with my 32 ohm Grado HF-2.  It takes a minute or two before it starts crackiling over the music, and once it starts I can switch to the Grados and it goes away.  The speaker outputs sound just fine, as does the tape loop out into another amp.  Prior to this the only issue with the amp was noisy controls that are quiet when left alone, which hasn't been a problem for me.
> 
> I haven't had time to try my other phones yet, but was wondering if someone thought this was something that having the amp refurbished/recapped would fix?


 

 It's quite possible that there is some out of spec part.  That receiver wasn't serviced at all when I bought it (which is why it was inexpensive).  Might be worth having a local tech go through it.  It's a nice receiver, and that would also solve the noisy controls issue.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> With my Marantz 2240 I've noticed some strange intermittent crackling in my right headphone when I use my 600 ohm AKG K240M, but not with my 32 ohm Grado HF-2.  It takes a minute or two before it starts crackiling over the music, and once it starts I can switch to the Grados and it goes away.  The speaker outputs sound just fine, as does the tape loop out into another amp.  Prior to this the only issue with the amp was noisy controls that are quiet when left alone, which hasn't been a problem for me.
> 
> I haven't had time to try my other phones yet, but was wondering if someone thought this was something that having the amp refurbished/recapped would fix?


 

 This brings up a question I've been wondering about concerning re cappping a piece of gear.  I'm a big believer that caps really contribute to the sound of gear but I am not familiar enough with brands of caps to know which ones are better musically than others.  When you send out a piece of gear to be recapped does anyone worry about the quality of new caps the tech is going to put in or do most folks just let the tech put in whatever?     I know quite a few professional audio ENG.s who don't believe in high end equipment and that it's a waste of money and all that and would never buy any of it (hard to believe but it is true).  I'm afraid that there might be a lot of guys out there that will not have the component knowledge and belief that certain caps are better than others and that "specs are specs" and just pop in any thing that meets the specs.   
   
  This is my concern when looking for a guy to refurbish a piece of vintage gear.  I have talked to a few that have been fixing gear professionally for 30 and know how to do it but have no clue what I am talking about when I mention high quality caps with musical properties and such. I get the caps are caps look.  I even told one guy to tell me what cap values and resistor values he needed and I'd supply them but he just didn't get it.  He kept thinking I was trying to save money or something like that by getting my own components.  
   
  So that's where I'm at.  I'm looking for a guru technician I guess.  Someone who understands.


----------



## MrQ

Is anyone else using the HE-Adapter with their amps? I recently got my HE-6, initially using it from the headphone out of my Marantz 2385. I thought that was it, as the headphone out can more than manage the HE-6.
   
  Then I wired up the HE-Adapter from one of the sets of speaker outs to the HE-6. The phrase 'scaled-up' doesn't do the combo justice. It's not just a question of volume. The HE-6's sound has more weight, presence and authority. The best word I can think of the sound is_ solid. _
  The bass goes deep, but is articulate. My favourite thing is listening to the notes decay into black, which I miss in my LCD-2.
   
  If your amp is under 100wpc this may not be relevant. I now want to a big vintage PIoneer and Sansui to try out.


----------



## WNBC

MrQ, what do you think in terms of focus?  I do not like the LCD-2 straight out of the Sansui 717, definitely no synergy.  Doesn't matter if the source is my SACD player or a DAC.  Volume is not the issue.  The Sansui isn't controlling the bass how I would like therefore I would always prefer the Lyr to the Sansui.  However, it would be interesting to determine if there was better performance tapping into the speaker out.  
  
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> Is anyone else using the HE-Adapter with their amps? I recently got my HE-6, initially using it from the headphone out of my Marantz 2385. I thought that was it, as the headphone out can more than manage the HE-6.
> 
> Then I wired up the HE-Adapter from one of the sets of speaker outs to the HE-6. The phrase 'scaled-up' doesn't do the combo justice. It's not just a question of volume. The HE-6's sound has more weight, presence and authority. The best word I can think of the sound is_ solid. _
> The bass goes deep, but is articulate. My favourite thing is listening to the notes decay into black, which I miss in my LCD-2.
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

These are the kinds of caps and brands of caps I'm talking about, but not sure how appropriate they are.
   
  AudioCap™  Theta Film and Foil Capacitor
  Stolen Metallized Polyproylene Capacitors
  Dayton Audio Precision 1% Metallized Polypropylene Capacitors
  Auricap Metallized Film Capacitors
  Kimber Kap Metallized Film Capacitors
  Jantzen Silver series Z-Capacitors
  Jantzen Superior Series Z-Capacitors
  MusiCap Coupling Capacitors-Foil & Polypropylene Film
  JJ Electronic Axial Lead Electrolytic
   
  Just some of the Caps I've come across that claim to be made for the musical qualities of audio gear.
   
  So I'm not sure what people do or expect when they get their gear refurbished.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> Nice post.  What replacement resistor might one use in the 2215B for the LCD.




since lcd2 impedance is 50ohms(i believe) it'll probably be better to add a low impedance resistors(like 120ohms maybe) with higher value(like 2w or higher). i don't know how much voltage is needed but you can always experiment with 680ohm resistors. i think you can get 680ohm resistors up to 4-5w. to make it easier for yourself you can always just build a simple box to be used off the speaker outputs. it'll be easier then ripping into the amp and taking the circuit boards out to solder new resistors unless they're permanent. also possibly cheaper as well(a lot cheaper) cause your local radioshack will carry everything you'll need and resistors are dirt cheap.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> MrQ, what do you think in terms of focus?  I do not like the LCD-2 straight out of the Sansui 717, definitely no synergy.  Doesn't matter if the source is my SACD player or a DAC.  Volume is not the issue.  The Sansui isn't controlling the bass how I would like therefore I would always prefer the Lyr to the Sansui.  However, it would be interesting to determine if there was better performance tapping into the speaker out.


 

 I've tried the LCD-2 with the adapter and it was a bit too much in the sense that I had lost some of the range with the volume dial.
   
  Remember though your 717 is rated at 85 watts, whereas the Marantz is 185 watts, so you will get a different result. 
   
  As the LCD-2 is not that difficult to drive I'm not sure how much difference you will see.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks for the info.  I can use the 717 when my computer rig is occupied but doesn't sound I'll gain the focus thru the speaker outs.  Plus I'd have to get some speaker taps and a balanced cable so it was more of a thought exercise.  Maybe I'll look around for a Pioneer receiver which others have reported a bit more synergy with the LCD-2.  And I don't have a receiver paired with the 717.  I was thinking TU-717 to go with AU-717 but the TU doesn't have any aux inputs.  The combo would be dead sexy but not so useful if I wanted to try a receiver + LCD-2 combo.
  
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> I've tried the LCD-2 with the adapter and it was a bit too much in the sense that I had lost some of the range with the volume dial.
> Remember though your 717 is rated at 85 watts, whereas the Marantz is 185 watts, so you will get a different result.
> As the LCD-2 is not that difficult to drive I'm not sure how much difference you will see.


----------



## francisdemarte

Anyone recommend  a good preamp with phono and remote control?


----------



## Skylab

I think to be considered Vintage, it would almost by definition mean no remote control


----------



## mr.khali

New toy day!!! Picked up a Pioneer SX 980.  It was worth the drive to Buffalo to grab it.  If this is indicative of the Pioneer sound they definitely have a clear vodka signature as Skylab described earlier in this thread.  Time to find a good home for my Sansui 8080 and Marantz 2225.  I think the only thing I would like to try now is a higher power Marantz to see how it compares as the 2225 is not in the same league as the more powerful Pioneer and Sansui.  Sorry for the phone quality picture but wanted to show off my new love interest. 
   
  .


----------



## WarriorAnt

Nice!   I have my eye on a Pioneer SX-950 Receiver thats for sale on consignment at a local audio salon.
   
  I just started to clean up a Kenwood KA-3500 integrated amp I got in friday.  It sounds better than I thought it would for $30.  Very tarnished inside and out. but the faceplate cleaned up like new.  Some very small nicks on the plate here and there I might be able to wet sand of with a very fine emery paper.  
  Going to take it entirely apart wash down the boards and rebuild it.  My first project, we'll see how successful I am.
   
  All this vintage gear always sounds so clean even though each brands seems to have its own signature.  I really admire those 70 designers.


----------



## francisdemarte

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think to be considered Vintage, it would almost by definition mean no remote control


 


  Alright then, I'll walk the 10 feet to the console. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What's a good vintage preamp with phono. I would like something on the slim side and have a better phono section than my Marantz 2265b.


----------



## Skylab

mr.khali, that SX-980 looks awesome, congrats! Very nice receiver.

Francisdemarte, I haven't checked out much in the way of vintage preamps myself, so hopefully others will chime in, but there are a bunch of well regarded McIntosh and Marantz vintage preamps. Maybe check out some threads on AudioKarma.


----------



## wualta

FDM, when you ask about preamps on AudioKarma, don't be afraid to be very specific. Tell them how much money you want to spend; tell 'em your aesthetic preferences, if any; mention the slimline requirement, and tell them how picky you want to get about the phono section-- they'll want to know what turntable you have, which phono cartridge you're using.. The reason for all this is that analog, and phono reproduction in particular, is fraught with variables, any one of which might radically change the recommendations you'll get. So tell them about your dream preamp, but also tell them _exactly_ what you have now. My cheapskate recommendation, by the way, would be the Kenwood Basic C2 preamp. Good luck!


----------



## rprokop63

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> what do u guys think about marantz 2226?


 


  I have a 2226b and I love it. It works great with my HD600s and I have it connected to a pair of Focal Chorus 807V's for speakers. It sits here in my office connected to my Cambridge Audio Dacmagic running pretty much all day as my background music source while I work. Somehow the combination of those blue lights and the silver faceplate always makes me smile when I look over at it. ( It reminds me of hot summer nights in the northeast listening to the King Biscuit Flour hour and the Dr. Demento show on WMMR or old Wolfman Jack on AM.) It sound great to me for a 30 or more year old unit! For the price I paid I'd grab a couple spares if I could find them. Don't let the 26 watts fool you it's plenty loud for most people.


----------



## rprokop63

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think to be considered Vintage, it would almost by definition mean no remote control


 
  I know it's off topic but I couldn't help thinking that I'm old enough now to remember I was the remote back in those days for both the TV and the stereo. I can remember standing next to the TV while my father watched 2 football games at once and I switched the dial back and forth. LOL! So technically I'm a vintage remote.


----------



## mr.khali

Quote: 





rprokop63 said:


> I know it's off topic but I couldn't help thinking that I'm old enough now to remember I was the remote back in those days for both the TV and the stereo. I can remember standing next to the TV while my father watched 2 football games at once and I switched the dial back and forth. LOL! So technically I'm a vintage remote.


 
   
  That is hilarious because it rings so true.   My job was to tune in the UHF channels.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


skylab said:


> I think to be considered Vintage, it would almost by definition mean no remote control


 

 My fifty year-old Fisher X-202-B integrated qualifies not only as vintage, but antique. And there is a remote control for it!
   

   
  Obviously a wired one. I've never seen one in person, and I haven't gotten a copy of the owner's manual yet to see if it's described there (the service manual doesn't mention it). The remote was sold aftermarket; out of the box the amp comes with a plug full of jumpers for the socket lines (the audio signal goes through the remote).
   
  Fisher also had what these days we would call a preamp out / amp in pair of sockets, but the label on the chassis is "Reverb". (It would also be a nice place to insert a crossfeed box, just sayin'.) If you check the page of Fisher catalog scans hosted by afaudiolab (the images above link to it), you can see what the K-10 Dynamic Spacexpander® looked like, as well as the unrelated and totally gizmo-tastic Model 60 Automatic Turn-Over Turntable.


----------



## WarriorAnt

A friend of mine in the early 70's had a Kenwood Receiver KR-7070 that actually had a remote that was wired.  It controlled the FM and I'm told also the volume.  We listened to a lot of Pink Floyd on that receiver through his Advents.
   
  http://classicaudio.com/gallery/audio/ken7070.html


----------



## RedBull

Quote: 





rprokop63 said:


> I know it's off topic but I couldn't help thinking that I'm old enough now to remember I was the remote back in those days for both the TV and the stereo. I can remember standing next to the TV while my father watched 2 football games at once and I switched the dial back and forth. LOL! So technically I'm a vintage remote.


 

 That is called organic remote control


----------



## scompton

Even better, holding on to the rabbit ears so you get good enough reception to see a picture.  I had to do that more than once.


----------



## singh

does anyone here own a pioneer a-27 , these were TOTL amplifiers at the time of sx1980 sold for the same amount as the sx1980.
   
  i need to know are they slightly on the warmer side or perfectly neutral like the sx1980/sx1250 ,
  as i will be using the HE6 with them.
   
  so anyone ??


----------



## RexAeterna

scompton said:


> Even better, holding on to the rabbit ears so you get good enough reception to see a picture.  I had to do that more than once.




i still do that with my kitchen tv sometimes.


----------



## wualta

Another Sony amp recommendation, but this one's vintage (1974):


----------



## mythless

Everyone needs a monster receiver from the 70s.  Haha, I'm a new owner of a Pioneer SX-5590, impulse buy and really I have no idea what to do with it.  Sure looks pretty once I cleaned it.


----------



## T-Willi

Dude use it! Whether it be from some nice speakers or your cans you'll more than likely be impressed with the results


----------



## mythless

I already know what to expect from it. I already own a SA-9100 or SA-9500ii.  It's just a very large beast almost no where to put it and I have far too many amplifiers.


----------



## Skylab

mythless said:


> Everyone needs a monster receiver from the 70s.  Haha, I'm a new owner of a Pioneer SX-5590, impulse buy and really I have no idea what to do with it.  Sure looks pretty once I cleaned it.



NICE! that's the black-faced, European version of the SX-1250, right? We need pix!


----------



## T-Willi

Well I stand corrected haha.


----------



## mythless

Not the best picture, but it's on my work bench to be cleaned and figuring out a place to put it.  And yes, the SX-5590 is the Black-Faced Euro version of the SX-1250.  It's really a nice receiver, haha.  Won't fit in my component stand though.


----------



## Wharfrat

Mythless 
  Wow!  I had no idea it came in black as well.  I have a SX-1250 I thought was a real looker.  Seeing yours (looking like a Paris fashion model during the Spring show) makes the silver-faced US versions look like a Vegas showgirl.
   
  But like you, they are both just dandy under the hood for HQ headphone listening moments. 
   
  Black....wow!  Will you sell me that unit so you can go buy a component stand so that a replacement unit can later fit in (LOL)?


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


mythless said:


> Not the best picture, but it's on my work bench to be cleaned and figuring out a place to put it.  And yes, the SX-5590 is the Black-Faced Euro version of the SX-1250.  It's really a nice receiver, haha.  Won't fit in my component stand though.


 

 What phones did you plug in there, is that IEM?
   
  But ya, it's nice in black, it gives this 'mysterious' look.


----------



## mythless

Apparently they're quite rare since it was only available in Europe.  Mine came to Canada from Germany (where the original owner bought it) then it got passed down to his student here in my city, I think.  Then I paid the 2nd owner and now it's mine.  Time to start purging and get better speakers, I have enough amplifiers, haha.
   
  Everything thing has a price  it's the question if whether or not you have deep enough pockets for them.  
   
  Another good piece and I don't know if they have been mentioned but I am also quite the Hitachi fan.  I own both a HA-610 and HA-1100, superb units.  If you want a very neutral sounding with great bass but extremely dynamic amplifier but not harsh, Hitachi has some great stuff.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Not the best picture, but it's on my work bench to be cleaned and figuring out a place to put it.  And yes, the SX-5590 is the Black-Faced Euro version of the SX-1250.  It's really a nice receiver, haha.  Won't fit in my component stand though.


 


  Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh What a beauty!  So nice in black too!


----------



## cifani090

I was never sure on the Euro model numbers vs/compared to the US but the 5590 is my new BFF


----------



## publicholiday

remind me of marantz 2226 black version, europe version perhaps?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> remind me of marantz 2226 black version, europe version perhaps?


 


  Stop! Just Stop!  You're killing me!  
  how come the europeans got all the black units?


----------



## publicholiday

hahaha they should all make different color for each region, tat would be ZOMG ITS SO AWESOME


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Stop! Just Stop!  You're killing me!
> how come the europeans got all the black units?


 

 x2, i love these black beauties! Kenwood KR-9000GX,11000GX, uhhhh. Love them all!!!
   
  Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> hahaha they should all make different color for each region, tat would be ZOMG ITS SO AWESOME


 

 They do;
   
  America- silver
   
  Asia- champange
   
  European- black/ gunmetal


----------



## publicholiday

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> x2, i love these black beauties! Kenwood KR-9000GX,11000GX, uhhhh. Love them all!!!
> 
> 
> They do;
> ...


 

 I didn't know, isn't for certain model and brand?


----------



## MrQ

This is the black version of my 2385...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> This is the black version of my 2385...


 




   












   
  I really hate you(jk)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





FYI i put a WTB up on my craigslist for a euro!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> I didn't know, isn't for certain model and brand?


 

 Aww yee, not sure tell you the truth. I know of Pioneer, Sansui (kinda hard to tell a difference LMAO), Kenwood, and Marantz.


----------



## publicholiday

Darth vader.....word
  
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> This is the black version of my 2385...


----------



## WarriorAnt

MrQ Thats just wrong!  And a wood case too.


----------



## T-Willi

**** you. Those receivers are just b-e-a-utiful!
  (bruce almighty reference)


----------



## rprokop63

The Black Marantz units are a bad influence. I'd love to find one of those someday!
  So far my meager collection has one Marantz2226b and my Old Onkyo 817 (Real heavy but not so vintage as it's from the 80's. But, I've had it since it was new and can't bring myself to part with it yet.) I just picked up a Pioneer PL-630 turntable for $20 and it came with two Grado cartridges so I can't complain if it's got a few dings and some quirks as long as it works for a couple weeks till I decide if I'm going to buy a modern turntable or just a better old one. There is just something amazingly simple and fun about spinning vinyl on this old Marantz/Pioneer combo through my HD600's. Here's a pic of each just to keep them coming in this thread. The Pioneer is only temporarily perched on the Marantz to test it out. I'm too worried it would be bad for both units to leave them that close to each other due to any heat coming from the Marantz.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> MrQ Thats just wrong!  And a wood case too.


 
  I only have the silver version with a wood case. I suppose that will have to do


----------



## mythless

The Pioneer PL-630 was one of their best turntables.  They go for a lot more coin if you are willing to sell it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I only have the silver version with a wood case. I suppose that will have to do


 

 Still a beauty though!  Got to love those tone controls on the vintage units.  I see this one has a knob for "tone mode".  What are the selections?


----------



## cifani090

What do you guys think of this trade?
   
  Sansui AU-999 and Kenwood KR-9000GX for/trade Pioneer HPM-900's and Marantz 2270
   
  He has HPM-100's but he wants to keep those (50/50) and a Pioneer 1250 (which we were going to trade, but i dont want him to trade it if he needs money,etc)


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Still a beauty though!  Got to love those tone controls on the vintage units.  I see this one has a knob for "tone mode".  What are the selections?


 


 I have the same control on my 2275. See the link below for a general description.
  If I can find my user manual later on, I will quote from that as well.
   
  Link: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28725
   
*Excerpt from the Marantz manual:*
   
  The TONE MODE switch determines the operating
  characteristics of the BASS, MID AND TREBLE controls,
  and allows additional flexibility in compensating for room,
  speaker and program characteristics.
  The switch affects the tone controls as follows:
   
*OUT: * The tone controls are switched out of circuit,
  and frequency response is made flat regardless of their positions.
   
*IN: * The tone controls operate normally.
   
*250Hz: * The turnover frequency of the BASS tone control
  is shifted from 500 Hz to 250 Hz, while the MID and
  TREBLE operate normally.
   
*4KHz: *  The turnover frequency of the TREBLE tone control
  is shifted from 2 KHz to 4 KHz, while the BASS and MID operate normally.
   
*250 Hz, 4 KHz:*  Both BASS and TREBLE are affected as above,
  while MID operates normally.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What do you guys think of this trade?
> 
> Sansui AU-999 and Kenwood KR-9000GX for/trade Pioneer HPM-900's and Marantz 2270
> 
> He has HPM-100's but he wants to keep those (50/50) and a Pioneer 1250 (which we were going to trade, but i dont want him to trade it if he needs money,etc)


 
  You have the Sansui AU 999 and the Kenwood?     I wouldn't make that trade if you have the Sansuii and Kenwood but I'm becoming partial to the Sansui's and that Kenwood looks nice.  It would be interesting to hear what the more experienced people here have to say.
   
   
  Just some history links I found...
  http://www.classicsansui.net/html/SansuiImages0010.html
   
  http://www.oaktreevintage.com/SOLD_Receivers_KENWOOD.htm


----------



## RedBull

Those vintage have all those tone controls, Bass, Mid, Treble, do you guys use them?


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Those vintage have all those tone controls, Bass, Mid, Treble, do you guys use them?


 


 Heck yeah! Old school EQ, with these beasts that's how I roll.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> You have the Sansui AU 999 and the Kenwood?     I wouldn't make that trade if you have the Sansuii and Kenwood but I'm becoming partial to the Sansui's and that Kenwood looks nice.  It would be interesting to hear what the more experienced people here have to say.
> 
> 
> Just some history links I found...
> ...


 

 I sure do, im uzzing to get the 1250, so i really want to work out a deal with him.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Still a beauty though!  Got to love those tone controls on the vintage units.  I see this one has a knob for "tone mode".  What are the selections?


 
   
*Out :  *
*I**n :    *
*100Hz :  *
*10KHz :  *
*100Hz/10KHz :*
   
  Plus *15Hz* and *9KHz (18dB/Oct)* filters and Loudness switches
   
  Mostly I notch up the bass a couple of clicks. Beats tube rolling. I can't wait to get my rig to the next UK meet. I'll take a pepsi challenge against any of the dedicated headphone amps, especially with the HE-6.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> With my Marantz 2240 I've noticed some strange intermittent crackling in my right headphone when I use my 600 ohm AKG K240M, but not with my 32 ohm Grado HF-2.  It takes a minute or two before it starts crackiling over the music, and once it starts I can switch to the Grados and it goes away.  The speaker outputs sound just fine, as does the tape loop out into another amp.  Prior to this the only issue with the amp was noisy controls that are quiet when left alone, which hasn't been a problem for me.
> 
> I haven't had time to try my other phones yet, but was wondering if someone thought this was something that having the amp refurbished/recapped would fix?


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's quite possible that there is some out of spec part.  That receiver wasn't serviced at all when I bought it (which is why it was inexpensive).  Might be worth having a local tech go through it.  It's a nice receiver, and that would also solve the noisy controls issue.


 

 Well, the 2240 sounds perfectly fine with my 300 ohm HD800 tonight, so I'm just not going to use the 600 ohm AKG K240M with the Marantz, and I'm not going to mess with anything right now.  Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Stop! Just Stop!  You're killing me!
> how come the europeans got all the black units?


 

 x2! You'd think we'd have a choice and companies could readily identify what markets their gear is in/from! Even with some of the silver units like Pioneer , I really love the black dials - like in the '80' ending model numbered units. I've always enjoyed black inside my listening room...


----------



## publicholiday

I find the sound of vintage receiver is kinda bassy, is it just me?


----------



## scompton

Some are, some aren't.


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> I find the sound of vintage receiver is kinda bassy, is it just me?


 

 Or it could be your headphones???  With my AD-2000 and HE-5, there is more air around the treble and the bass seems a bit recessed; with the D7000, the bass is more forward to the point I have to use the tone controls to attenuate the bass presence abit.  This is with my SX-1250, mind you. So...hmmmmm....


----------



## singh

i would strictly advice against trading au-999, its got unique sound ( though warm, but still very lovely, )
  buy the sx1250 dont sell your sansui.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





singh said:


> i would strictly advice against trading au-999, its got unique sound ( though warm, but still very lovely, )
> buy the sx1250 dont sell your sansui.


 


  I'll take that AU 999 of your hands!


----------



## publicholiday

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Or it could be your headphones???  With my AD-2000 and HE-5, there is more air around the treble and the bass seems a bit recessed; with the D7000, the bass is more forward to the point I have to use the tone controls to attenuate the bass presence abit.  This is with my SX-1250, mind you. So...hmmmmm....


 

 Yea it could be my headphones, currently I only have the AIAIAI TMA-1 didn't try other headphones though, the receivers are marantz 2226 and sansui au 101, small receivers =(
  Here is a shot of my sansui, will take picture of my marantz once i have done with the bulbs and cleaning.


----------



## francisdemarte

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> I find the sound of vintage receiver is kinda bassy, is it just me?


 


  Not just you, I find the headphone out of my Marantz on the bassy side too.


----------



## Skylab

Speaking of Marantz, here is my latest vintage score, the very cool little M140:


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Speaking of Marantz, here is my latest vintage score, the very cool little M140:


 

 Sweet! Got a Marantz pre to drive it?
   
  se


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! No Marantz pre - I'm planning to drive it off the pre outs of my Marantz 2275 receiver. But I have some serious rack re-arranging to do...


----------



## wualta

Neat! My 140 was the bass amp in my bi-amped setup. A good solid 75w/ch power amp.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks! No Marantz pre - I'm planning to drive it off the pre outs of my Marantz 2275 receiver. But I have some serious rack re-arranging to do...


 

 That'll work for now. But ya GOTTA get a Marantz pre to pair it up with eventually. Ya just gotta! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## singh

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'll take that AU 999 of your hands!


 

 ...did it come onut wrong?? ..i said i love my au999...and was advising him not to trade au999 for sx1250. rather buy the sx1250 .


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





singh said:


> ...did it come onut wrong?? ..i said i love my au999...and was advising him not to trade au999 for sx1250. rather buy the sx1250 .


 

  
  Ill be selling my Kenwood, to fund the 1250. The Sansui was going to get some Pioneer HPM-900's and a Marantz 2270... still not a good deal? I could always buy back my Sansui.


----------



## treal512

Oh my God.. I've just started reading up on vintage receivers and have been staring at them all day O_O I feel like I've entered into an entirely different realm and don't know where to start. Maybe some of you can help me? So I have some HiFiMan HE-5LEs coming my way along with an EF-5 hybrid amp, but I would like to nab one of these receivers and see how they fair. I've been speaking with a few people and have my search down to something like this... Pioneer SX650 / SX780, Sansui 7070 and Marantz 2238 / 2250B / 2270. What should I be looking at that will separate these up for me? Sound signatures per brand or model lines? Power? I may add in some speakers to the receiver later on, but for now this will just be for my Ortho HPs. I just love the way they look and would like them even more if they can drive these cans well. Appreciate any input/advice!
   
  Edit: Reading the thread now to get more leads.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Speaking of Marantz, here is my latest vintage score, the very cool little M140:


 


  I have 2 of those, plus the 2 matching 3200 preamps.  Nice amps.


----------



## randerson07

Hello there, maybe some of you guys can help me out a bit. Im currently using an 90's or maybe early 00's RCA receiver, that I saved from a dumpster 4 years ago, in my man cave. I use it for my xbox, my mac mini(dont have a DAC and the RCA doesnt have an Optcal Input, so its going through the sound card), and I use a LOD to RCA for my IPOD. It drives my Klipsch RB51s, and the only headphones I currently have ATH-M35s, Im hoping to get a pair of those Refurbed DT770 pros off ebay, but not until I get a new receiver as this one is dying.
   
  So with that out of the way, there are a couple receivers available locally on craigs list that Im looking at, a Pioneer sx-3800, an Onkyo 6500 mkII, and a cheaper priced Hitachi SR-903. All claim to be in good working order. Of those, which would pair best with the speakers I have?
   
  The reason Im looking at older stuff is 1 it looks cool, and two Id like to add a TT at some point and would like the dedicated phono input, my dad, grandparents, and inlaws have a ton of vinyl between them and it would be fun to give it all a listen.
   
  Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I have 2 of those, plus the 2 matching 3200 preamps.  Nice amps.


 

 Your'e making me swoon....


----------



## rprokop63

Quote: 





mythless said:


> The Pioneer PL-630 was one of their best turntables.  They go for a lot more coin if you are willing to sell it.


 

 Thanks for the info mythless. It plays good. It took a couple hours of spinning to get it where it would most things would work correctly every time.
  I think it sat for a long time it could use a good service session if anyone can do that for this thing. 
  It's a very nice looking item and it's heavy too!


----------



## RedBull

Quote:


livewire said:


> Heck yeah! Old school EQ, with these beasts that's how I roll.


 

 Those tone controls, are they the same with Equalizer?


----------



## cifani090

I remember reading this earlier in the thread, but do i use deoxidiser or something to clean the pots?


----------



## treal512

I bookmarked this after my day long staring and reading session  on vintage receivers yesterday. It may be helpful to you.
   
  "_The Idiot's Guide to Using DeOxit_" > http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## cifani090

A little **** on my Kenwood KR-9000GX (sorry about pictures, phone cam)
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## WarriorAnt

So what is the deal with so many vintage receivers and vintage integrated amps having Mic inputs on the front panel?  I don't remember a Mic craze in the 60's or 70's sweeping home users.


----------



## sluker

[size=10.5pt]Karaoke[/size]

  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> So what is the deal with so many vintage receivers and vintage integrated amps having Mic inputs on the front panel?  I don't remember a Mic craze in the 60's or 70's sweeping home users.


----------



## dukja

I just got Deoxit (D5), Gold (G5) and Fader (F5).  Used them according to the guide, I felt the clarity was further improved (above what I heard after recapping the PSU and flat amp board).  In the past, I always feel the treble become slightly muddy after I engaged the -20dB attenuation.  Now, I did not hear much difference at all with and without going through the attenuation circuit (SPL matched).
   
  D5 only eliminate the scratching pot.  The G5 seems to improve the SQ and F5 protects the pot.  That is what I got from the Guide.
  Quote:  


treal512 said:


> I bookmarked this after my day long staring and reading session  on vintage receivers yesterday. It may be helpful to you.
> 
> "_The Idiot's Guide to Using DeOxit_" > http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## shipsupt

sluker said:


> [size=10.5pt]Karaoke[/size]




The real reason we are all seeking vintage amps!


----------



## francisdemarte

Quote: 





sluker said:


> [size=10.5pt]Karaoke[/size]


 

 Karaoke didn't get popular until the late 80's - early 90's. I don't remember it becoming popular outside of Asian culture until the mid-90's here in the US.


----------



## xaval

The mic input was just for that - people recorded conversations and such to tape decks. The rage were the portable recorders that you'd take to the "field" - the mic input was a feature imported from those big and heavy beasts.
  I remember being very young and using those battery powered portable recorders for small interviews and other superfluous things. Looking back it's really lol.
   
  @Skylab - that's a very good Marantz amp there. A fathers friend had one on his setup, a killer rig. The early audiophile days


----------



## Questhate

Hey there! 
   
  Been reading through this thread. I love the look of vintage electronics, so it's nice to hear that they can drive headphones well. I just got a Marantz 2220B last night and am hoping to give it a Deoxit bath this weekend.
   
  Does anyone have any experience with Technics vintage receivers? I haven't seen them mentioned much. A local person is selling a Technics SA-202 for $50, and it's supposedly in excellent working condition. 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## 5aces

Sent the Sansui AU 20000 in for a bulb,switch repair,cleaning/lube and 3-day bench test of all functions-cost $80.00.
Sansui CA 2000/BA 2000,switch repair on the preamplifier,cleaning/lube and 3-day bench test of all functions,both pieces-$100.

Tip of the hat to the vintage repair technician in my hometown that keeps the dream alive.
He retired from the old Brack Electronics Toronto (circa 1969) that recently closed this past May.
Claudio has been a fulltime repairman for 34 years and started in electronics when he was 16 years old.

He started a post retirement repair business from his home but the heavier amplifiers were too much to lug up and down into the basement.
So now he has a small shop in the back of a friends warehouse.
I took some pictures today after picking up my amplifier.
Just got authorized for Rotel repairs,had some Mark Levinson and Classe amps in for refurbishing.

Stumbled upon him through Kijiji,believe it or not.
Finally have everything cranking along as it was meant to be.
Cheers to all the solid electronic techs that make this happen!


----------



## elnero

This thread sucked me in, I spent a good part of my vacation last week reading through it and further researching various brands and items. I've got the bug now, I'm in process of picking up a Harman Kardon 730 to see how it pairs with my LCD-2's. The descriptions of the HK sound from that era really intrigues me but I'm not sure how the synergy will be with the LCD-2's.
   
  Initially I was really stuck on the Pioneer gear but something about the HK stuff won me over. In the long run I figure I'll probably end up trying a bunch of different brands to see what works best. Next up when finances allow will likely be a Pioneer of the SX-x50 or x80 ilk.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Sent the Sansui AU 20000 in for a bulb,switch repair,cleaning/lube and 3-day bench test of all functions-cost $80.00.
> Sansui CA 2000/BA 2000,switch repair on the preamplifier,cleaning/lube and 3-day bench test of all functions,both pieces-$100.
> 
> Tip of the hat to the vintage repair technician in my hometown that keeps the dream alive.
> ...


 
  NICE!   I love looking at his workshop.    wish there was someone near here like that.  There might be but I haven't found him yet.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





elnero said:


> This thread sucked me in, I spent a good part of my vacation last week reading through it and further researching various brands and items. I've got the bug now, I'm in process of picking up a Harman Kardon 730 to see how it pairs with my LCD-2's. The descriptions of the HK sound from that era really intrigues me but I'm not sure how the synergy will be with the LCD-2's.
> 
> Initially I was really stuck on the Pioneer gear but something about the HK stuff won me over. In the long run I figure I'll probably end up trying a bunch of different brands to see what works best. Next up when finances allow will likely be a Pioneer of the SX-x50 or x80 ilk.


 

 I'm fairly new also.  One thing I have found out from the 4 different units I have obtained is that I'm always impressed by the build and sonic quality of the vintage gear.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





elnero said:


> This thread sucked me in, I spent a good part of my vacation last week reading through it and further researching various brands and items. I've got the bug now, I'm in process of picking up a Harman Kardon 730 to see how it pairs with my LCD-2's. The descriptions of the HK sound from that era really intrigues me but I'm not sure how the synergy will be with the LCD-2's.
> 
> Initially I was really stuck on the Pioneer gear but something about the HK stuff won me over. In the long run I figure I'll probably end up trying a bunch of different brands to see what works best. Next up when finances allow will likely be a Pioneer of the SX-x50 or x80 ilk.


 



 Although I don't have LCD-2, I like HK730 more than Pionny I have. HK730 sounds rich, smooth, very musical but still detailed. It makes bad mastered albums sounding good too. IMHO, Pioneer's tonic suits for Rock'nRoll and music with quick pace, but HK 730 suits more versatile musics. I would recommend HK 730 over all pionny x50 and x80 series (Even my early sx-727 and SA-9100 fell short).


----------



## TruBrew

I am calling a guy tomorrow about possibly buying a 9090DB. He has it on Craigslist for $750 with a pair of Bose 901. I don't want the speakers and am hoping for a good deal on the amp. I emailed him asking for price and condition buy he told me to call. He lives 30-45 minutes away so it will have to be a decent deal for me to go. I don't really have the money or space for it in the first place, I just want it.
   
  Edit: If I only have room for the Pioneer or Sansui in my main listening system, and the other would be sold/ stored away, which one would be better? If the Pioneer is better I just won't buy the Sansui. I definitely don't have room in here for both.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I am calling a guy tomorrow about possibly buying a 9090DB. He has it on Craigslist for $750 with a pair of Bose 901. I don't want the speakers and am hoping for a good deal on the amp. I emailed him asking for price and condition buy he told me to call. He lives 30-45 minutes away so it will have to be a decent deal for me to go. I don't really have the money or space for it in the first place, I just want it.
> 
> Edit: If I only have room for the Pioneer or Sansui in my main listening system, and the other would be sold/ stored away, which one would be better? If the Pioneer is better I just won't buy the Sansui. I definitely don't have room in here for both.


 
  Which Pioneer?   Also How much are you willing to pay for the 9090DB once the 901's are out of the equation?


----------



## Skylab

The SX-950 versus 9090DB is a tough all. Both excellent. The 9090 for sure is not going to be much better if both are in good shape, but that doesnt mean you won't like it more. I like my SX-1250 a little better than my 9090DB, but I like the Sansui a lot nonetheless.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> Edit: If I only have room for the Pioneer or Sansui in my main listening system, and the other would be sold/ stored away, which one would be better? If the Pioneer is better I just won't buy the Sansui. I definitely don't have room in here for both.


 

 I don't have 9090db, but I have G-8000. Base upon my experience with Sansui 5000x, G-8000 and AU-517. I would vote for Sansui without hesitation.
  BTW, DB version is hard to fix once DB board goes bad. There are many threads on AK talking about this issue. And good luck to your hunt!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Sent the Sansui AU 20000 in for a bulb,switch repair,cleaning/lube and 3-day bench test of all functions-cost $80.00.
> Sansui CA 2000/BA 2000,switch repair on the preamplifier,cleaning/lube and 3-day bench test of all functions,both pieces-$100.
> 
> Tip of the hat to the vintage repair technician in my hometown that keeps the dream alive.
> ...


 

 Got bless his heart! These people are getting fewer and far between to find, especially in Michigan. I just got my 1250 in and he said the pots need a good cleaning (DeOxit probably), i said screw it, and so far so good. I also have a pair of Sansui 2500 and a Marantz 2270, which i think have feet (and are missing) and i dont care for it aesthetically unless its a euro model.


----------



## TruBrew

Well my SX-950 is is good shape. I had it tuned up after I bought it and its working well. The 9090DB I will likely do no more than $400, but even that is pushing it. I would say $350. I would maybe spend $400 if it was recently inspected and cleaned. I know they sell for more on ebay, but he has had it up for over a month, plus I don't need it.


----------



## cifani090

Their is a Marantz 18 for $35 in need of repair. I need this! And i like it more than my newly aquired 2270


----------



## tink97

Nice Meewoo,  I just bought a Harman Kardon 430 twin powered and love it with my speakers.  Once I get my LCD-2 I am excited to here out it sounds.  I do have to say this thread suckered me into getting a vintage amp and before I never even thought about it.  
   
  Good stuff from before i was born heh.  happy listening everyone
   
  Tink97


----------



## Wharfrat

Tink97: Since you might be at the Seattle meet this Saturday, could I convince you somehow to bring your HK 430 so we can compare our vintage gear headphone outs?  I'll be bringing my Pioneer SX-1250....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Bob


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> Well my SX-950 is is good shape. I had it tuned up after I bought it and its working well. The 9090DB I will likely do no more than $400, but even that is pushing it. I would say $350. I would maybe spend $400 if it was recently inspected and cleaned. I know they sell for more on ebay, but he has had it up for over a month, plus I don't need it.


 

 I bought a nice 9090 (not DB) on CL for $300.  It was generally in good condition but did need a thorough deoxit bath and a couple lamps replaced.  I would not pay more than $400 for a 9090DB on CL regardless of condition, unless the seller provides a receipt of proof that recent restoration work was done.


----------



## sansui

Although I read about some headphones from time to time , this is my first post.
  Try to guess what is my primary interest...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  This baby G  was one of my first's...
   

   
  regards to all,Robert


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sansui said:


> Although I read about some headphones from time to time , this is my first post.
> Try to guess what is my primary interest...
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats


----------



## WNBC

Nice low light photography work there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  What was the second?
  
  Quote: 





sansui said:


> Although I read about some headphones from time to time , this is my first post.
> Try to guess what is my primary interest...
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## WarriorAnt

I am always amazed when I go on eBay and look at gear by how abused some of the gear is.  I don't think I've even had any piece of gear that wasn't treated like a king in my collection.  No matter what it was.  Dents, scratches, coffee rings on the wood cases, missing knobs?  I don't understand...


----------



## Skylab

People think they can sell any old POS on EBay. That's the problem. Most of that stuff wouldn't pass muster at a garage sale for more than $10.

That's why I have bought all my vintage stuff AFTER it had already been serviced. Granted, for some folks, getting a great $25 score is the main thing with vintage, and that's cool, I can appreciate that. It's just not my vector.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> People think they can sell any old POS on EBay. That's the problem. Most of that stuff wouldn't pass muster at a garage sale for more than $10.
> 
> That's why I have bought all my vintage stuff AFTER it had already been serviced. Granted, for some folks, getting a great $25 score is the main thing with vintage, and that's cool, I can appreciate that. It's just not my vector.


 

 I've been pretty lucky so far.  One unit I picked up locally and 3 more on eBay that were dirt cheap and in good condition.  One guy was lucky with his shipping though, his packing could have been real trouble, but it arrived ok.   
   I'm starting to go to estate sales now.  I see on eBay a lot of the stuff there comes from estate sales people pick up and then turn them over on eBay.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





elnero said:


> This thread sucked me in, I spent a good part of my vacation last week reading through it and further researching various brands and items. I've got the bug now, I'm in process of picking up a Harman Kardon 730 to see how it pairs with my LCD-2's. The descriptions of the HK sound from that era really intrigues me but I'm not sure how the synergy will be with the LCD-2's.
> 
> Initially I was really stuck on the Pioneer gear but something about the HK stuff won me over. In the long run I figure I'll probably end up trying a bunch of different brands to see what works best. Next up when finances allow will likely be a Pioneer of the SX-x50 or x80 ilk.


 


  I do hope you enjoy the HK730, it's a nice one.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> People think they can sell any old POS on EBay. That's the problem. Most of that stuff wouldn't pass muster at a garage sale for more than $10.
> 
> That's why I have bought all my vintage stuff AFTER it had already been serviced. Granted, for some folks, getting a great $25 score is the main thing with vintage, and that's cool, I can appreciate that. It's just not my vector.


 

 x2, i rather skip all the hassle, and my seller's usually know that id also ld like a little meat on the bone, so that when i go to resell the piece of equipment in 6-8 months im not backtracking on what i paid for it. Its a win, win situation for both of us, usually.
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've been pretty lucky so far.  One unit I picked up locally and 3 more on eBay that were dirt cheap and in good condition.  One guy was lucky with his shipping though, his packing could have been real trouble, but it arrived ok.
> I'm starting to go to estate sales now.  I see on eBay a lot of the stuff there comes from estate sales people pick up and then turn them over on eBay.


 

 Are you able to repair the units yourself? Or do you pay someone to do it? Its a great profit margin, if you have the time, the expertize, and the knowledge on these vintage goodness.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> x2, i rather skip all the hassle, and my seller's usually know that id also ld like a little meat on the bone, so that when i go to resell the piece of equipment in 6-8 months im not backtracking on what i paid for it. Its a win, win situation for both of us, usually.
> 
> 
> Are you able to repair the units yourself? Or do you pay someone to do it? Its a great profit margin, if you have the time, the expertize, and the knowledge on these vintage goodness.


 

 I'm slowly learning to do repairs myself.  Right now a Kenwood 3500 is the unit I am taking apart and most likely will never get back together in one piece...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's slow going but it's going.....slow....but I'll get there....


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm slowly learning to do repairs myself.  Right now a Kenwood 3500 is the unit I am taking apart and most likely will never get back together in one piece...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Its the best thing to do though truthfully. Here is some ****; NSFW
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## Questhate

Picked this up for $50 today through local Craigslist. It's an Allied 498, which is supposedly a re-badged Pioneer SX-9000 or so (uses those Pioneer speaker plugs). It has an electro-mechanical tuner, and ceramic phono input. 
   
  I didn't know too much about this model, but I found this ad from 1971:

   
  Rated at 350 watts? I think not. Anyone know anything about this unit? 
   
  Planning on using it exclusively as a head amp in the bedroom. I have to figure out how to get rid of that incessant humming from the headphone jack, though....


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





questhate said:


> Picked this up for $50 today through local Craigslist. It's an Allied 498, which is supposedly a re-badged Pioneer SX-9000 or so (uses those Pioneer speaker plugs). It has an electro-mechanical tuner, and ceramic phono input.
> 
> I didn't know too much about this model, but I found this ad from 1971:
> 
> ...


 

 For $50, and its all clean,thats a decent deal. If you were to try to resell it, id expect the same price as you paid. The Allied units used alot of Pioneer parts, not all, but alot of them. They were made in approximately in 1965-1970, and it was an off brand from RadioShack, which was acquired by Tandy, and than sold off.  Tandy started off as a leather business, which it is still today under "Tandy Leather Factory."


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> For $50, and its all clean,thats a decent deal. If you were to try to resell it, id expect the same price as you paid. The Allied units used alot of Pioneer parts, not all, but alot of them. They were made in approximately in 1965-1970, and it was an off brand from RadioShack, which was acquired by Tandy, and than sold off.  Tandy started off as a leather business, which it is still today under "Tandy Leather Factory."


 
   
  Sweet! Thanks for the info. It's in total working order, just a little scuff mark here and there. I'm wondering if some metal polish would work for the face plate? 
   
  I'm surprised at how heavy this thing is. It's probably about 15-20 lbs.


----------



## sansui

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Congrats


 


  tnx


  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Nice low light photography work there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 let me see...I think this set  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> People think they can sell any old POS on EBay. That's the problem. Most of that stuff wouldn't pass muster at a garage sale for more than $10.
> 
> That's why I have bought all my vintage stuff AFTER it had already been serviced. Granted, for some folks, getting a great $25 score is the main thing with vintage, and that's cool, I can appreciate that. It's just not my vector.


 

 Yes,that's true....but I am very skeptical about the service....very few people are able to service the vintage stuff *properly...*and just using deoxit is not an service (imho)


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm really not quite sure how the Marantz 2240 can sound this good with my re-cabled HD800.  If they weren't in separate rigs on different floors of the house I'd compare it directly to my DACmini and maxed WA6, but if I had to guess I'd say that it can't be very far behind them.
   
  Previously it came out ahead of my HDP with stock PSU, which I have now moved back to my bedroom and am using the 2240 in it's place.  I'm feeding my PS Audio Perfectwave DAC and bridge into it and it scales up nicely.  This is now the amp I use while waiting for my ZDT to warm up. 
   
  I'm pretty lazy about hauling gear up and down the stairs due to my ailments - I tend to leave the HF-2, HD800, HE-60 and Stax O2 in the basement rig, and in my bedroom rig I've been perfectly happy using the EF5 for HE-500, SR-71b for the HE-6, and DACmini for the LCD-2 and LA7000.  Still not sure what the deal is with the AKG K240M 600 ohm, but it's got no static and crackles with the other phones I've tried so far.


----------



## paultel 2009

@elnero
   
  I have an HK930 which I use with LCD2's (Rev.1). IMHO, the HK drives them really well.
   
  Whilst the sound might not be the last word in micro-detail, it is completely effortless and superbly relaxed. I also have some of the other usual suspects (e.g. Marantz 2275 & Pioneer 1250), but it is the HK that I choose to use on a daily basis.
   
  The other great thing I find about the 930/730 series is the ergonomics. The controls have a really nice feel to them and they all seem to be in just the right place. It is definitely my preferred user interface. Plus, in the flesh, I think the 930/730's somewhat understated looks are easy to fall in love with too.  
   
  Hope you enjoy your 730.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





mythless said:


> I do hope you enjoy the HK730, it's a nice one.


 

 Thanks and I very much appreciate your input which helped lead to my decision. 
   


  Quote: 





paultel 2009 said:


> @elnero
> 
> I have an HK930 which I use with LCD2's (Rev.1). IMHO, the HK drives them really well.
> 
> ...


 

 That sounds very encouraging, I'm really looking forward to putting the pairing through their paces when the 730 arrives.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I'm really not quite sure how the Marantz 2240 can sound this good with my re-cabled HD800.  If they weren't in separate rigs on different floors of the house I'd compare it directly to my DACmini and maxed WA6, but if I had to guess I'd say that it can't be very far behind them.


 

      The HE-6 sound so good out of my Marantz 2275 that I really don't bother using them with anything else anymore...so I know what you mean!</p>
   
  


  Quote: 





sansui said:


> Yes,that's true....but I am very skeptical about the service....very few people are able to service the vintage stuff *properly...*and just using deoxit is not an service (imho)


 

 Agreed - but there are some great places to get it done.  Lots listed over on AudioKarma.  I always insist on a detailed quote, and then receipt, to show exactly what is going to be/was done.


----------



## WarriorAnt

When you guys get gear recapped do you insist on what caps and resistors will be used or do you leave it up to the repair gent?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's why I have bought all my vintage stuff AFTER it had already been serviced. Granted, for some folks, getting a great $25 score is the main thing with vintage, and that's cool, I can appreciate that. It's just not my vector.


 


  My kr-9600 was technically only 25.00, but I paid a repair guy 60.00 to go over it. I eventually paid about 50.00 for the output ic(everything else was fine). So a total of 135.00 for a perfectly working kr-9600 that's in mint cosmetic condition is the biggest score of my lifetime(165.00 for an sx1010 wasn't too bad either). The thrill of finding this on cl for 25.00 was a nice bonus.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> My kr-9600 was technically only 25.00, but I paid a repair guy 60.00 to go over it. I eventually paid about 50.00 for the output ic(everything else was fine). So a total of 135.00 for a perfectly working kr-9600 that's in mint cosmetic condition is the biggest score of my lifetime(165.00 for an sx1010 wasn't too bad either). The thrill of finding this on cl for 25.00 was a nice bonus.


 

 That is indeed a huge score.  I've always wanted to see and hear a KR-9600.  Maybe someday.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That is indeed a huge score.  I've always wanted to see and hear a KR-9600.  Maybe someday.


 

 x2, do you prefer a wood case on you 9600, rack mounts, or both? Id like to see one on both, as some people really like that. I sold my KR-9000GX to get a 1250, and i think i have the Kenwood bug


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I would only buy one of it had the wood case.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah I would only buy one of it had the wood case.


 

 It's really hard to find KR-9600 with wood case. Actually, it's a little hard to find big Kenwood.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I have only saw two big Kenwood in my 100 mile distance in ten months on CL. I snapped a Kenwood KR-9400 earlier
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and there is big Kenwood KR-9600 without wood case for $375 now on CL.


----------



## moodyrn

375 is a good price compared to what they have gone for on ebay which is much more. I saw a broken one go for 240.00 recently. I actually prefer the look of  the one with rack mounts(which is what I have). Every other piece of vintage gear I've seen, I would prefer them with the wood case. But from the pics I've seen, the 9600 looks out of place inside of a wood case. With the marantz, sansui's, the wood cases takes their appearance to another level. I do love the sound of the 9600. It's a different approach of the very neutral sound of the pioneer sx line. It's actually replaced my fisher as my prefer amp to power my klipsch epics. It's also the piece powering my he-6's which can come off a little analytical with my sx1010. I would say it's sound sig is right between pioneers and marantz's. I had a 2252 for a short while, but it was just to warm and smooth for my taste. It's still a nice sounding receiver though.


----------



## Questhate

Hey guys,
   
  Maybe you vintage savvy people can help me assess a couple of local finds:
   
  Kenwood KA-8006 Integrated Amplifier - 70wpc $160
  Sansui AU-555 Integrated Amplifier - 20wpc $120 (just got professionally serviced)
   
  Are either of these good deals, or should I hold off?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> 375 is a good price compared to what they have gone for on ebay which is much more. I saw a broken one go for 240.00 recently. I actually prefer the look of  the one with rack mounts(which is what I have). Every other piece of vintage gear I've seen, I would prefer them with the wood case. But from the pics I've seen, the 9600 looks out of place inside of a wood case. With the marantz, sansui's, the wood cases takes their appearance to another level. I do love the sound of the 9600. It's a different approach of the very neutral sound of the pioneer sx line. It's actually replaced my fisher as my prefer amp to power my klipsch epics. It's also the piece powering my he-6's which can come off a little analytical with my sx1010. I would say it's sound sig is right between pioneers and marantz's. I had a 2252 for a short while, but it was just to warm and smooth for my taste. It's still a nice sounding receiver though.


 

 What
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I hate any of my equipment that doesnt have a wood case, it seems that i am a true born woodie now.!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





questhate said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Maybe you vintage savvy people can help me assess a couple of local finds:
> 
> ...


 
  I have a Sansui AU 505.  MY LCD sound really fine with it.  It gives my SS amp a scare it sounds so good.   
  When you say professionally serviced what does that entail?   Just a cleaning?  Refurbished?    Anyway I think for a buck and a quarter you might get a nice amp for your LCDs.   
  
  I don't know anything about the Kenwood but it's only $40 more...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> 375 is a good price compared to what they have gone for on ebay which is much more. I saw a broken one go for 240.00 recently. I actually prefer the look of  the one with rack mounts(which is what I have). Every other piece of vintage gear I've seen, I would prefer them with the wood case. But from the pics I've seen, the 9600 looks out of place inside of a wood case. With the marantz, sansui's, the wood cases takes their appearance to another level. I do love the sound of the 9600. It's a different approach of the very neutral sound of the pioneer sx line. It's actually replaced my fisher as my prefer amp to power my klipsch epics. It's also the piece powering my he-6's which can come off a little analytical with my sx1010. I would say it's sound sig is right between pioneers and marantz's. I had a 2252 for a short while, but it was just to warm and smooth for my taste. It's still a nice sounding receiver though.


 

  

 Totally agree with you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  $375 seems a fair price for KR-9600 compared to eBay. If I didn't get KR-9400 for $100 with broken on/off switch and some bad lamps, I will jump on it. KR-9400 has wood sides case but no handle. It's also the TOTL receiver of Kenwood in 74-75. KR-9600 is TOTL in 76-77. The KR-9400 lacks the power VU-meters also.
  Yse, the tonic of Kenny is between Marantz and Pionny, it can be a very similar with Sui. But Sui has more punch in low and is more dynamic to me. I had Kenwood KA-7100 once, it definitely sounds dark, but I wouldn't say "dark" with kr-9400. It has warm, a little recess sound.
  When you say your Pionny SX-1010 with HE-6 sound analytic, did you mean "bright"? I always found sx-x50 line sound a little bright and too airy, my Sa-9100 and SX-727 sound warmer than SX-x50 lines. Though they all are not warm as Kenwood.
  If my memory is correct, you have Yammy with you.  I would say Yammy is analytic and balanced. But Yammy makes bad records sound bad too.


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I have a Sansui AU 505.  MY LCD sound really fine with it.  It gives my SS amp a scare it sounds so good.
> When you say professionally serviced what does that entail?   Just a cleaning?  Refurbished?    Anyway I think for a buck and a quarter you might get a nice amp for your LCDs.
> 
> I don't know anything about the Kenwood but it's only $40 more...


 
   
  Thanks for the heads up, WA. I'm mainly going to use it for a bedroom headamp, so that is good news to hear. Plus, I really love the look of vintage electronics -- so it's a win-win. The good news is that my GF also likes the wood cabinets and blue lights, so I have the un-contested go-ahead to maybe accumulate a nice little vintage set up. A little speaker set up is definitely not out of the question now.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Totally agree with you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  The sx1010 from everything I've read isn't as bright sounding as the sx-xx50 series. To me the sx1010 is dead neutral(which is why some over at audiokarma prefer it to the 1250), so it's not bright with the he-6. It's just a little too clean sounding. To me the he-6 benefit from just a touch of warmth which the 9600 has. I think the kenwood line is the sweet spot between the pioneer and marantz line( I guess similar to sansui). I would love to own a upper line sansui. From everything I've read, the upper line sansui's might just be the perfect match for the he-6. If I every come across a killer deal like I have with my other gear, I'm going to jump on one. But with spending around 135.00 for the 9600, 165.00 for an sx1010, and 250.00 for a fully serviced fisher x100-c, I'm spoiled at getting this stuff for really cheap prices. So even though they are worth tons more, I couldn't see myself dropping large amounts of cash on anything vintaged. And with the way they outperform most of the headphone amps I've owned or listened to, I probably won't ever spend a more than 1000.00 on a dedicated headphone amp ever again. But then again, I've done many things I've said I've never do.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The sx1010 from everything I've read isn't as bright sounding as the sx-xx50 series. To me the sx1010 is dead neutral(which is why some over at audiokarma prefer it to the 1250), so it's not bright with the he-6. It's just a little too clean sounding. To me the he-6 benefit from just a touch of warmth which the 9600 has. I think the kenwood line is the sweet spot between the pioneer and marantz line( I guess similar to sansui). I would love to own a upper line sansui. From everything I've read, the upper line sansui's might just be the perfect match for the he-6. If I every come across a killer deal like I have with my other gear, I'm going to jump on one. But with spending around 135.00 for the 9600, 165.00 for an sx1010, and 250.00 for a fully serviced fisher x100-c, I'm spoiled at getting this stuff for really cheap prices. So even though they are worth tons more, I couldn't see myself dropping large amounts of cash on anything vintaged. And with the way they outperform most of the headphone amps I've owned or listened to, I probably won't ever spend a more than 1000.00 on a dedicated headphone amp ever again. But then again, I've done many things I've said I've never do.


 



 Yes, although I don't have sx-1010, I have sa-9100, it definitely warmer than x50 lines. Sometimes I just wonder why people like x50 and x80 line so much, to me earlier Pionny sound more musical. I have to say you really got good deals. In my area, the price is almost same as eBay.


----------



## moodyrn

I still would love to try the xx50 line to compare. But I doubt there's really a lot of difference, but I could be wrong. If you really want warm, the fisher has it in spades. It's warm even for a tube amp. But the thing that's so strange is, it's not syrupy. I've listen to modern tube amps that's not as warm but still sounded syrupy. The warm sound of the fisher just sounds like a natural warmth. I really can't explain it. It's just so different from any tube amp I've listened to, and I seriously doubt there's anything today that can produce such a sound. Some love it and I can see some not loving it because it's definitely not tonally accurate. But it's definitely fun to listen to.


----------



## Skylab

Funny, I don't find the SX-1250 or SX-1980 to be bright at all. Not warm, but not bright. Really very neutral IMHO. The Marantz I have, now that is warm!


----------



## moodyrn

I don't really think there's much difference between the sx lines, but I still would like to get something from the xx50/80 to compare. I will say marantz, well at least the one I had, is warm sounding. That's not a bad thing, some people prefer warming sounding solid state gear. I just preferred both my kenwood and pioneer to it. So it didn't stay here long. The sansui will probably be my last vintage amp, if I ever come across a good score. It will definitely be one of their integrated's. I already have three receivers and one of them isn't getting used at all. But it is only a 20wpc rebranded supercope. It's too cheap to sell and too good to give away, but it does have the marantz house sound.


----------



## Skylab

I do like the HE-6 with the Marantz, because I think the HE-6 can lean to brightness, and as such the Marantz pairs well with it. the LCD-2, OTOH, is better with the Pioneers. I mostly use the SX-1980 with speakers, though.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Funny, I don't find the SX-1250 or SX-1980 to be bright at all. Not warm, but not bright. Really very neutral IMHO. The Marantz I have, now that is warm!


 

 What I say "bright", it is comparing to warm one like Marantz, Kenwood and Sansui. It is not "abstract" bright, just "comparative" bright. The SX-x50 and x80 are just neutral as you guys say. Sorry for confusing.
   
  @Moodyrn
  I do have a Fisher 504 quad receiver, it sounds really good. But it's not warm as Marantz. I have chance to audit Fisher RS-1080 too, very good sound. I would recommend Fisher to this thread followers. I happened to pick up a little JVC receiver, and it sounds surprisingly good too.  But I am now Luxman fetish. To me, Luxman is best!!


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> What I say "bright", it is comparing to warm one like Marantz, Kenwood and Sansui. It is not "abstract" bright, just "comparative" bright. The SX-x50 and x80 are just neutral as you guys say. Sorry for confusing.



That makes sense, and I agree totally.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Funny, I don't find the SX-1250 or SX-1980 to be bright at all. Not warm, but not bright. Really very neutral IMHO. The Marantz I have, now that is warm!


 

 I find that my Pioneer 1250 is also neutral, if thats what you call it. The Marantz 2270 is definitely alot more of a funner, more musical amp. The Kenwood KR-9000GX that i had is not as warm as the Marantz, but not as neutral as the Pioneer.


----------



## Skylab

I was really surprised how different my big three receivers sounded. The Pioneers are very neutral. The Marantz is warm to the point of almost being tube-like. The Sansui is in between - warmer than the Pioneer but not as much as the Marantz. I like having all three - it's a nice mix. I found nice combos for all three - Pioneer SX-1980 with speakers, Sansui 9090DB with LCD-2, and Marantz with HE-6.

In all honesty, except for my Leben, my headphone amps are pretty lonely...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was really surprised how different my big three receivers sounded. The Pioneers are very neutral. The Marantz is warm to the point of almost being tube-like. The Sansui is in between - warmer than the Pioneer but not as much as the Marantz. I like having all three - it's a nice mix. I found nice combos for all three - Pioneer SX-1980 with speakers, Sansui 9090DB with LCD-2, and Marantz with HE-6.
> 
> In all honesty, except for my Leben, my headphone amps are pretty lonely...


 

 I can find that easy to believe, the Leben company really do make them look so very vintage. I thought you had a 1250? How to you make out the sound to be with the LCD-2 on the 1980?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I was really surprised how different my big three receivers sounded. The Pioneers are very neutral. The Marantz is warm to the point of almost being tube-like. The Sansui is in between - warmer than the Pioneer but not as much as the Marantz. I like having all three - it's a nice mix. I found nice combos for all three - Pioneer SX-1980 with speakers, Sansui 9090DB with LCD-2, and Marantz with HE-6.
> 
> In all honesty, except for my Leben, my headphone amps are pretty lonely...


 

 It seems that the designers from the 70's were serious dudes and each camp definitely seems to have had its own particular sound.    Right now I prefer my Sansui with my LCD's when going vintage, but the Yamaha and Marantz units are also very enticing.  I only have the Sansui AU 505 but it sounds nice with the LCDs and I am drooling to hear one of the higher model integrated Sansui's with the LCD.   At night I watch DVD's Bluray or high def files on my flat screen using the Marantz 2215B and my daughters Audio Technica ATH AD 700's and that combo is also very nice.   I'd try out my Yamaha CR 820 with the flat screen set up but darn the thing is too big to fit in the rack.


----------



## Skylab

cifani090 said:


> I can find that easy to believe, the Leben company really do make them look so very vintage. I thought you had a 1250? How to you make out the sound to be with the LCD-2 on the 1980?



Yes, I also have a SX-1250, but at the moment it's not getting much use, as I replaced it with the SX-1980 when I got that a few months back. The LCD-2 are terrific with both Pioneer receivers. REALLY good.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I've got my eye on a Pioneer SX-950 Receiver at a local audio salon that's on consignment.


----------



## moodyrn

It's funny how these receivers/amps sound so different from each of the manufacturers of that day, but yet still sound excellent even by today's standards. I've listened to amps, both headphones and speakers, from different manufactures that pretty much sounded the same. One thing that I really appreciate about this vintage gear is the total lack of generic/cheap parts along with outstanding build quality and design. If you look at the inside of the 9600,  you will see two completely different chassis. The front half is a preamp/tuner and the back half is a power amp. They are separated by a steel plate the thickness of a front panel face plate. The amp parts looks like the internals of a very expensive and beefy power amp. No wonder after 30+ years many of these receiver/amps are still going strong and are well sought after. Even my lowly marantz rebranded supercope receiver sounds good.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> It's funny how these receivers/amps sound so different from each of the manufacturers of that day, but yet still sound excellent even by today's standards. I've listened to amps, both headphones and speakers, from different manufactures that pretty much sounded the same. One thing that I really appreciate about this vintage gear is the total lack of generic/cheap parts along with outstanding build quality and design. If you look at the inside of the 9600,  you will see two completely different chassis. The front half is a preamp/tuner and the back half is a power amp. They are separated by a steel plate the thickness of a front panel face plate. The amp parts looks like the internals of a very expensive and beefy power amp. No wonder after 30+ years many of these receiver/amps are still going strong and are well sought after. Even my lowly marantz rebranded supercope receiver sounds good.


 
  X2


----------



## WNBC

First vintage receiver, Sansui TU-717, to go along with my first vintage amp the AU-717.   Stick a fork in me, I could be done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, though I could use a speaker upgrade.  Using some Technics SB-2840s.
  Need to clean the TU-717 this weekend otherwise it sounds great.  It's been a while since I listened to FM and I'm kind of digging it thru the Sansui units.  Could use a new bulb for the signal meter.
  Is it normal for the protection circuit to blink for 60 seconds at start-up on the AU-717?  Always done it, previous owner said the same.  Once the protection circuit is latched it doesn't blink at all.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> First vintage receiver, Sansui TU-717, to go along with my first vintage amp the AU-717.   Stick a fork in me, I could be done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very minty unit, and nice photo's


----------



## livewire

*QUOTE:  "Is it normal for the protection circuit to blink for 60 seconds at start-up on the AU-717? *
*Always done it, previous owner said the same. *
_*Once the protection circuit is latched it doesn't blink at all."*_
   
   
   Yes it is normal.
  One of the biggest problems with old AU-717s is the start-up circuit ceases to function
  thus rendering the amp useless. (because it wont latch)
  This topic is discussed in many forums on the web.
   
  And btw, very nice setup you have there! I'm green with envy.


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Is it normal for the protection circuit to blink for 60 seconds at start-up on the AU-717?  Always done it, previous owner said the same.  Once the protection circuit is latched it doesn't blink at all.


 

 60 seconds seems awfully long.
   
  here's what the manual for the au-717 says


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

skylab said:


> The HE-6 sound so good out of my Marantz 2275 that I really don't bother using them with anything else anymore...so I know what you mean!</p>
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, rub it in - that's the amp I tried to buy from you first...


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, I have the service manual (a bit too technical for me at the moment) and some other sources of info.  Nothing covers an initial 60 seconds of latching time.  After that, it's all good.  I can play music during this 60 seconds.  Probably needs a tune-up.  I may just see if I can find a vintage electronics repair shop in Seattle.  Maybe Northwest Audio Service. 
  
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> Yes it is normal.
> One of the biggest problems with old AU-717s is the start-up circuit ceases to function
> thus rendering the amp useless. (because it wont latch)
> This topic is discussed in many forums on the web.
> ...


 

 Quote:


takezo said:


> 60 seconds seems awfully long.
> 
> here's what the manual for the au-717 says


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> First vintage receiver, Sansui TU-717, to go along with my first vintage amp the AU-717.   Stick a fork in me, I could be done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That stuff and those vintage speakers look great.  You didn't tell me you had a Sansui tuner as well.   Hmm maybe all the juice from that Sansui amp could drive a small pair of maggies...  Tell your wife you'lll be moving some furniture around in the living room...


----------



## wuwhere

That Sansui looks like a tuner we had before. It can pull very weak stations. We had a Nikko integrated amp too.
   
  I've always wanted to have a McIntosh MR78 or a Sequerra tuner.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Thanks, I have the service manual (a bit too technical for me at the moment) and some other sources of info.  Nothing covers an initial 60 seconds of latching time.  After that, it's all good.  I can play music during this 60 seconds.  Probably needs a tune-up.  I may just see if I can find a vintage electronics repair shop in Seattle.  Maybe Northwest Audio Service.
> 
> 
> Quote:


 


 Now that I think about it, 60 seconds does seem like a rather long interval for a soft start operation.
  What worries me is what you just posted about being able to play music while it is still blinking.
  This circuit also monitors output voltages and if something isnt right it will keep blinking.
  There are probably some time worn components that take a while to warm up into correct operating parameters
  and this could very well be a sign that it needs servicing before something "really goes sideways" and frys your amp big time.
  Servicing the AU-717 correctly is a pretty big job and will cost you to have it done right.
  Please check out the link below that shows step by step how to do it.
  Pay close attention to the section that covers old glue removal.
  This is one of the biggest culprits that affects the start up circuit as well as others.
  And I do heartily recommend replacing those old electrolytic caps as well
  and all of the dried up heatsink compound behind those power transistors.
   
  Link:  http://www.cdkands.com/AU717-1.html


----------



## WNBC

Tuner arrived yesterday.  You mean I have to share the Sansui 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That stuff and those vintage speakers look great.  You didn't tell me you had a Sansui tuner as well.   Hmm maybe all the juice from that Sansui amp could drive a small pair of maggies...  Tell your wife you'lll be moving some furniture around in the living room...


 
   
  Hi Livewire, thanks for the words of caution, I will have it looked at sooner than later.  I got the AU-717 for a great price so I'm willing to spend a little more to have it looked at.  It's never been serviced so very likely a lot of worn components.  I like your idea about warm-up but it doesn't matter if I run the unit for an hour, turn it off, and then immediately turn it back on.  I did try a couple wall outlets.  It seems the blinking happens with 2 out of 3 wall sockets but with one there is 5 seconds of blinking and done.  Not very scientific but could be something to how my apartment is wired?  This is where I wished I had taken some electronics classes back in college.
  
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> Now that I think about it, 60 seconds does seem like a rather long interval for a soft start operation.
> What worries me is what you just posted about being able to play music while it is still blinking.
> This circuit also monitors output voltages and if something isnt right it will keep blinking.
> There are probably some time worn components that take a while to warm up into correct operating parameters
> ...


----------



## log0

I received my SX-1250 back from the shop yesterday. I bought it off eBay and sound was cutting out in addition to scratchiness. I took it to my local shop and they took out and tested the preamp and amp sections and the problem disappeared without having to do any sort of service on it. In the end, nothing was changed and I still have a stock SX-1250 that I probably overpaid for. Not a week later after I bought mine off eBay someone on Audiokarma was selling a fully serviced unit for $100 less than I paid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Anyways, I've been listening to the SX-1250 yesterday and today after having been using a Luxman R-1120 for the past couple weeks. My headphones are LCD-2 rev1, source is Audio-GD Reference 1 hooked up to iMac and Audio GD digital interface. Initial impressions are that the SX-1250 beats the Luxman in the soundstage and gets tonal accuracy much better. Very detailed and neutral sound like some have mentioned. Strings really do sound like strings, and the soundstage seems to have opened up twofold. The most immediate and recognizable difference is the soundstage.
   
  I listened to "Dustbowl Children" by Allison Krauss and the Union Station amongst other string and vocal heavy songs. I feel like I'm listening to every detail. "Down in a Hole" by Alice in Chains MTV Unplugged was enjoyable as well, felt very intimate with the LCD-2s. Guitar strings sounded as good as I've ever heard out of the LCD-2.  "I've Got You Under My Skin" by Diana Krall was next on the list, switching it up to a smoother sound. I already think Diana Krall's voice has a naturally calming affect on my body, but with the SX-1250 and LCD-2 combo I couldn't help but sit in my chair, close my eyes, and listen. I didn't feel like paying attention to detail at this point and rather just get lost in the music which happened without me even realizing it. This is the biggest compliment I can pay this combination, forget the all the little details that it gets right, it's the big picture, the musical presentation is just very fluid.
   
  Next I'll want to hook the LCD-2 and SX-1250 combination to the Playstation SCPH-1001 which I feel has a more analog sound to it than the Reference 1 (at the expense of some detail) to see if the presentation can get more fluid.
   
  Another vote here for the LCD-2 and SX-1250 combination. Hard to imagine another solid state, especially in this price range, could compete with the old hulking monster of a receiver. I still haven't tried the SX-1250 with speakers, I need to give my back a break from hauling this beast around.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





log0 said:


> I received my SX-1250 back from the shop yesterday. I bought it off eBay and sound was cutting out in addition to scratchiness. I took it to my local shop and they took out and tested the preamp and amp sections and the problem disappeared without having to do any sort of service on it. In the end, nothing was changed and I still have a stock SX-1250 that I probably overpaid for. Not a week later after I bought mine off eBay someone on Audiokarma was selling a fully serviced unit for $100 less than I paid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 It's good to hear you got your Pionny SX-1250 back!
  I am shocked by your sound-stage observations. I will test my stuff again to report back. In this month, I got a restored Luxman R-1120 from AK member and a Luxman L-85v, I lent the R-1120 to a friend but it will come back to me in two weeks. I am now also bidding a Luxman L-580 on ePay since I found the L-85v is very good sound, and a tiny forward than my R-1120a. I will compare them to Pionny I have extensively in the near future.


----------



## log0

Congrats on getting a restored R1120. Both my Luxman and Pioneer are in original condition and both sound very good. However, I give the nod to the Pioneer when paired with the LCD-2's. When I get around to it, I will compare them with speakers. I was very happy to find that the R1120 was an immediate improvement over my AVR when paired with full range speakers, I'm hoping the Pioneer will be as well. Good luck with your ePay hunt!


----------



## moodyrn

The sx line do have a very nice soundstage. The soundstage in my fisher is deeper, but the soundstage in my pioneer is both wider and taller than both my fisher and kenwood(although the kenwood is very close). It does wonders for any closed can imo. Congrats on the purchase. I know you may feel like you overpaid, but in the end I don't think you will regret it given how good it sounds. The only thing I regret now is the thousands of dollars I have spent on dedicated headphone amps in the past. Only the super duper expensive ones can surpass what can be achieved in the upper tier vintages(of course I'm speaking more on the solid state side). And even then, it's really a matter of preference. The only real advantage they may have is space.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The sx line do have a very nice soundstage. The soundstage in my fisher is deeper, but the soundstage in my pioneer is both wider and taller than both my fisher and kenwood(although the kenwood is very close). It does wonders for any closed can imo. Congrats on the purchase. I know you may feel like you overpaid, but in the end I don't think you will regret it given how good it sounds. The only thing I regret now is the thousands of dollars I have spent on dedicated headphone amps in the past. Only the super duper expensive ones can surpass what can be achieved in the upper tier vintages(of course I'm speaking more on the solid state side). And even then, it's really a matter of preference. *The only real advantage they may have is space.*


 

 I feel you there. The 1250 is almost the size of my desk. The stereo repair guy thought I was joking when I told him I was primarily going to use it for headphones. It's a hell of a headphone amp. I think I'm done buying amps for headphones or speakers now. The only curiosity I have is how my LCD-2s and speakers would sound with a Leben integrated. This is the next upgrade beyond vintage. I still do not have a tube amp but have been wanting one for the longest time. A Leben CS600 would fit the bill for headphones and running full range speakers quite nicely I imagine. For now, the 1250 will suit me might fine.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> *The only real advantage they may have is space.*


 

 I'll add energy efficiency.
   
  But in the winter, I don't know.


----------



## Skylab

Until one ctually sees something like a SX-1250, Sansui 9090, or Kenwood KR-9600 in person, it's hard to believe just how big and heavy they actually are. My Marantz 2275 looks downright small by comparison, as it is pretty standard component sized. Neither of the Pioneers or my Sansui will fit in any of my normal audio racks.

And then there is the SX-1980...which one truly has to see to believe...


----------



## sinae

I bought a Sansui AU-7500 and the sound dynamics are wonderful but i find the signal path to be kinda noisy since tone controls arent bypassable like on the AU-9500.

Im currently wondering if it would worth it to restore it and remove that noise but at the same time, its hard to pinpoint the noise source. 

It could be old caps that i would need to verify with an oscilloscope, 
old noisy transistors that i would need to verify with an oscilloscope, 
Any dirty controls (already dexoit it)
Old switches working badly
Power supply problems ( this amp as no ground )

Its kinda sad to know you have one of the best amp ever made and no be able to listen to it in all its glory. 

Anybody here already restored any of the AU series?

---

So before buying any vintage amp and if your not ready to restore it make sure to check with headphones for a black background. (very rare in old vintage gears)


----------



## mythless

The difference could be in the harmonics, which is why sometimes HK are quite popular.  Between the earlier pioneer and the later pioneer, yes the SA-9100 sounds more "musical" over the SA-9500ii but the SA-9500ii would what I would say is more neutral between the two.  I know for many Classical music listeners they like to use neutral sounding gear so they can have a completely (or at least try to) un-colored frequency spectrum.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mythless said:


> The difference could be in the harmonics, which is why sometimes HK are quite popular.  Between the earlier pioneer and the later pioneer, yes the SA-9100 sounds more "musical" over the SA-9500ii but the SA-9500ii would what I would say is more neutral between the two.  I know for many Classical music listeners they like to use neutral sounding gear so they can have a completely (or at least try to) un-colored frequency spectrum.


 

 x2
   
  IMHO, Yammy is also neutral, and more smooth than Pionny. Yammy definitely has the flat response, people may like the *airy* sound of Pionny.


----------



## mythless

Yamaha is one brand I need to try once more, especially their A-class amp/receivers.


----------



## Meewoo

I have CR-1020 and CR-820. But I don't have the A-class integrate Amp. I had chance to listen two recapped (stock power caps) CA-1010 integrate amps in friend's house. When they are in normal model, they sound almost like my receiver, with a little more details. When they are in class-A mode, they sound warmer, and every bit of music is "thick" ( has more elements) or "rich". Class-A mode is definitely musical.


----------



## dukja

I have been recapping my SX-950 and try to recognize the improvement.  AK forum mentioned about bypass the main power filter caps.  I have done it and the treble has quite change.  In my experience, the SQ became much brighter and more siblance.  Therefore, I took the bypass film cap off. 
   
  So are you those who restored or fiddled with your vintage amp bypassing your main power caps?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Until one ctually sees something like a SX-1250, Sansui 9090, or Kenwood KR-9600 in person, it's hard to believe just how big and heavy they actually are. My Marantz 2275 looks downright small by comparison, as it is pretty standard component sized. Neither of the Pioneers or my Sansui will fit in any of my normal audio racks.
> 
> And then there is the SX-1980...which one truly has to see to believe...


 

 x2, my 1250 was the heaviest receiver by far. Any amps you can think of that are heavier? The 1980 is probably 80 pounds or so.


----------



## sansui

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Until one ctually sees something like a SX-1250, Sansui 9090, or Kenwood KR-9600 in person, it's hard to believe just how big and heavy they actually are. My Marantz 2275 looks downright small by comparison, as it is pretty standard component sized. Neither of the Pioneers or my Sansui will fit in any of my normal audio racks.
> 
> And then there is the SX-1980...which one truly has to see to believe...


 

 And then there is the G-33/22000...which one  truly has to see to believe...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 NHF
   
  (those images are from the web)


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sansui said:


> And then there is the G-33/22000...which one  truly has to see to believe...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have a chance to touch the G-22000, the pre-amp part is OK, the Power part is heavy but it isn't heavy as SX-1250 or even sx-1050.  I think SX-1980 might be the heaviest one piece receiver.
  The other heavy piece is Pioneer spec-2. Man, in such compact size, it's as heavy as the same size dumbbell. I don't think old guys here can haul it without hurting back since you would think it's not heavy from the size. Watch out!!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sansui said:


> And then there is the G-33/22000...which one  truly has to see to believe...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What's the bottom one? Ive always loved units with the ports on the side!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What's the bottom one? Ive always loved units with the ports on the side!


 

 Definitely Sx-x80, not sure it's sx-980 or sx-1080.


----------



## Skylab

The one on the bottom is the SX-1980, but that pic taken from above distorts the perspective and makes it look smaller. It is slightly smaller than those massive Sansuis, but it is heavier.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The one on the bottom is the SX-1980, but that pic taken from above distorts the perspective and makes it look smaller. It is slightly smaller than those massive Sansuis, but it is heavier.


 


  Wow, that's really a distort pic. From the height, I know it should be a big one. But the width made me thought it's a middle one.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, if you take pictures like that, on an angle from up high, the stuff below will look much smaller than it is. Clearly a photo taken by a Sansui fan 

The SX-1980 is an inch and a half taller than the SX-1250, and about the same amount deeper. They are the same width. The 1980 is also heavier, can't recall by how much. Both are a bear to lift! The 80 pound SX-1980 weighs more than double what my 600 wpc Sunfire power amp weighs...

Since I have been on vacation this week I had some time to listen to both my modern hi-fi and my vintage hi-fi back to back. The retail price of my modern hi-fi is about $50,000. I paid about $3,000 for my vintage rig, where most of the cost was the $1,800 I spent on the SX-1980. The cost would be less than $2K if I put my SX-1250 back in instead. And the sad truth is I prefer to listen to the vintage rig. I enjoy listening to it more. I've known this was true for months, but today I really had to fully admit it to myself. I'm not sure what it means yet...might be time to reconsider the modern rig, and what I want to do with it. It sounds great...but it just doesn't engage me like the vintage rig does. I must be a very bad audiophile.


----------



## sansui

Pioneer SX-1980-78 lbs (not sure)
  Sansui G22K-tuner/preamp-35,5 lbs and amp-57,3  (G33K-64,6 lbs); from user manual


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, if you take pictures like that, on an angle from up high, the stuff below will look much smaller than it is. Clearly a photo taken by a Sansui fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The lights are totally different on the 1980 than the 1250. What new equipment do you have besides the B&W's?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, if you take pictures like that, on an angle from up high, the stuff below will look much smaller than it is. Clearly a photo taken by a Sansui fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi, Skylab, you do know your impression will make the vintage price triple!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And you have a promise not fulfill yet. You said you were going to write a review to compare vintage and headphone amps. We are all waiting for it. Thread followers, Let's push Skylab for it!!!


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, sorry...been too busy reviewing new headphone amps...finished the Arête and the Dark Star but still have the Lyr and RWA Audeze Edition yet to go...


----------



## log0

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, if you take pictures like that, on an angle from up high, the stuff below will look much smaller than it is. Clearly a photo taken by a Sansui fan
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm glad you wrote this. It shows that there can be a value in hifi, even if it is vintage. Still, if you spent $50k in modern equipment and you prefer your vintage rig more, to me it means you might have spent your money on parts that don't mesh well together. Or it could be that you subconsciously enjoy your vintage rig more because it was cheaper and there is more thrill to the hunt. Finding a nicely restored SX-1980 is more difficult than putting in an order for Sunfire amps or B&W speakers. Just speculating.
   
  Still an amazing compliment to the performance and value of vintage equipment given the numerous pieces of audio gear you must have had the pleasure of listening to and reviewing. I've noticed you're a B&W fan, if I would dare suggest anything, especially to you whose opinion I value when it comes to making my purchasing decisions, it would be to start by going with sensitive easier to drive full range speakers and tube amps. And maybe it's also time you create a dedicated listening room like the William Ralston room you described.


----------



## sansui

What B&W speakers are you talking about?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sansui said:


> What B&W speakers are you talking about?


 
  I think they are 803. Does anyone have experience with 800 Diamond series?


----------



## sansui

Quote: 





log0 said:


> ...if I would dare suggest anything, especially to you whose opinion I value when it comes to making my purchasing decisions, it would be to start by going with sensitive easier to drive full range speakers and tube amps*.* ...


 
  if I may...you can try WLM Diva (or Diva monitor) with Almarro or some Leben
  
   


  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think they are 803. Does anyone have experience with 800 Diamond series?


 
  tnx,
  I have some experience with 804...stil have WLM Diva


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think they are 803. Does anyone have experience with 800 Diamond series?


 

 If i could afford them, id buy them. I love the tweeter, well known for most of their top-tier speakers, including these. Just look at their price!


----------



## Skylab

My B&W are the big ones - the N800 Signatures. First gen though, pre diamond. And they are great, don't get me wrong. My modern rig sounds heat by any measure. It was carefully assembled over many years (by me). But the fact remains I am more engaged by the musIc on the vintage rig. At least these days.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My B&W are the big ones - the N800 Signatures. First gen though, pre diamond. And they are great, don't get me wrong. My modern rig sounds heat by any measure. It was carefully assembled over many years (by me). But the fact remains I am more engaged by the musIc on the vintage rig. At least these days.


 


  This is truly the mystery of the vintage era.


----------



## Skylab

Perhaps so. For sure in my case it has nothing to do with the fact that the vintage gear was cheaper. I'm not enamored of that in any way, although it certainly is true. And it's not that the vintage rig "sounds" better. But it DOES engage me more with the music, to the point where I prefer to listen to music on it.


----------



## tink97

Ahh man....you guys are killing me and my wallet! lol  I have read this thread twice now and I got the vintage bug bad lol.  Now I am looking into getting a Sansui unit for my LCD-2/ computer setup lol
   
  This is a great thread and I can honestly say that 7 months ago I never gave vintage a second glance, boy and I am glad for all the input here.  I just want to give a thanks to everyone participating in this thread and I love reading this and seeing photos.
   
  Have a great day and happy listening
   
  tink97


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> This is truly the mystery of the vintage era.


 

 Maybe it's not just the vintage gear at work. I remember back in the 90's I briefly worked at a high-end audio store,  in one room there was a pair of Wilson Grand Slams powered by monsterous Audio Research mono blocks and a really high-end CD player which I can't remember the name of. This setup retailed for around $120,000 and it truly was impressive for it's sheer scale and what it technically did right but if I wanted to just listen and become involved with the music I went down the hall to a system made up of a pair of Swan's Baton's, Densen integrated amplifier and a Pioneer Elite CD player. I loved that setup so much.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





elnero said:


> Maybe it's not just the vintage gear at work. I remember back in the 90's I briefly worked at a high-end audio store,  in one room there was a pair of Wilson Grand Slams powered by monsterous Audio Research mono blocks and a really high-end CD player which I can't remember the name of. This setup retailed for around $120,000 and it truly was impressive for it's sheer scale and what it technically did right but if I wanted to just listen and become involved with the music I went down the hall to a system made up of a pair of Swan's Baton's, Densen integrated amplifier and a Pioneer Elite CD player. I loved that setup so much.


 
  I've spent a lot of time with the Wilson WAMM system, and as much time with the the Wilson Tiny Tots and pup.  With Vinyl the WAMM's were amazing.  If you purchased the WAMM Dave would come to your home and personally set it up.    I'd have to take the WAMM over any vintage set up. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    But that's not the real world.  
   
    In terms of the vintage gear I'd love to be able to seek out the particular designers form Sansui, Marantz, Yamaha, and Pioneer of that era and interview them.  Ask them what their priorites were when designing and implementing a product.    I wonder that todays gear is over designed.  Overly thought out.  That the finesse of many of todays designs are just too much design and not enough getting back to the basics.  Perhaps vintage gear is showing us that all you really need to get good sound is a good basic design thats implemented with good parts and manufactured to stand the test of time.   That fancy modern design philosophy is simply not needed and goes beyond the point of practical design.   I know my humble Sansui AU 505 begs this question every time I listen to it.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've spent a lot of time with the Wilson WAMM system, and as much time with the the Wilson Tiny Tots and pup.  With Vinyl the WAMM's were amazing.  If you purchased the WAMM Dave would come to your home and personally set it up.    I'd have to take the WAMM over any vintage set up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Also Kenwood, Fisher, Scott, McIntosh!


----------



## moodyrn

Yep, there were quiet a few back in the day. With all of the technology you would think that even modestly priced modern gear would be leaps and bounds beyond even the most expensive vintage gear ever made. It's baffles me that it's not the case. Take computers for example, for 300.00 you can get something that will utterly destroy a 3000.00 computer from not 10 years ago, but even 5 years ago. It's the same way with many other things. Skylab I really feel you. I never invested anything near 50,000.00 in a setup. But I have invested multiple thousands and I love my vintage gear. That's why a couple of pages back I posted that I never see myself investing more than 1000.00 in a solid state amp again.


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

Quote: 





elnero said:


> Maybe it's not just the vintage gear at work. I remember back in the 90's I briefly worked at a high-end audio store,  in one room there was a pair of Wilson Grand Slams powered by monsterous Audio Research mono blocks and a really high-end CD player which I can't remember the name of. This setup retailed for around $120,000 and it truly was impressive for it's sheer scale and what it technically did right but if I wanted to just listen and become involved with the music I went down the hall to a system made up of a pair of Swan's Baton's, Densen integrated amplifier and a Pioneer Elite CD player. I loved that setup so much.


 

 I owned a pair of Swan Baton's way back when. Mighty musical little speaker. Based on the various models I've listened to of his, David Wilson's speakers has always appeared to lean towards the analytical rather than romantic side of the musical spectrum. They were/are quite ruthless on what you feed them.


----------



## TruBrew

I have heard the B&W 800 series, and I think those big boys are as far as I would ever go in my system. They are expensive for sure, but still at a point that I would not feel shameful spending the money. I don't know how good those Wilsons may or may not sound, but it is better I never know. That will forever be out of reach. My plan for my main 2 channel system in the future is Magnepans. I used to have a pair and I loved them so much. I am thinking a Pioneer SX-1980 and and a piar of 3.6/3.7, should sound great.
   
  I have a question about my SX-950. I had it serviced a while back and it has been running fine. I mostly use it to run my Thiel CS1.2's, but I will sometimes use it for headphones. My left channel will cut out sometimes through headphones. If I wiggle the headphone plug I can get it to connect. Do you think DeoxIT will clean that out. If it would, how would I go about that, using a q-tip?


----------



## sansui

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Ahh man....you guys are killing me and my wallet! lol  I have read this thread twice now and I got the vintage bug bad lol.  Now I am looking into getting a Sansui unit for my LCD-2/ computer setup lol
> 
> This is a great thread and I can honestly say that 7 months ago I never gave vintage a second glance, boy and I am glad for all the input here.  I just want to give a thanks to everyone participating in this thread and I love reading this and seeing photos.
> 
> ...


 

 same here...one, an old sansui tuner, has changed my perception of hifi...3 years ago.
   
  You can start with nice AU-517 or 717...or you can try with AU-555a.I have not heard that amp,but an old Sansui fan told me is very,very special.
   
  I am surprised that nobody mentioned TOTL of Sony.I don't know about you,but this receiver has a special place in my heart.
   
  Here are some old pictures:


----------



## francisdemarte

We need to close this thread before we drive prices up to the stratosphere!


----------



## Skylab

trubrew said:


> I have a question about my SX-950. I had it serviced a while back and it has been running fine. I mostly use it to run my Thiel CS1.2's, but I will sometimes use it for headphones. My left channel will cut out sometimes through headphones. If I wiggle the headphone plug I can get it to connect. Do you think DeoxIT will clean that out. If it would, how would I go about that, using a q-tip?




It might, but often the issue is that the jack's metal connectors, which use only pressure to make electrical contact, a no longer making good contact. You could carefully bend them toward the center of the jack again. I hope that made sense...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It might, but often the issue is that the jack's metal connectors, which use only pressure to make electrical contact, a no longer making good contact. You could carefully bend them toward the center of the jack again. I hope that made sense...


 


  I've done that.  Works well.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It might, but often the issue is that the jack's metal connectors, which use only pressure to make electrical contact, a no longer making good contact. You could carefully bend them toward the center of the jack again. I hope that made sense...


 

 I deal with old, oxidized 1/4 inch phone jacks almost everyday at work.
  They are usually nickel plated and since they are exposed to the outside air, will oxidize over time, especially if not plugged and unplugged regularly.
  We use a rubber pencil eraser to abraid the jack contact points, as well as the phono plug. This always remedies the problem.
  Then a quick spritz of some quick evaporating electrical solvent to blow out the residue and you're done.
  My company is too cheap to buy Deoxit as well as they are suspect of any "oily residue" that might be left behind by it on their sensitive medical equipment.
  And yes, make sure everything is unplugged / off / powered-down before performing this type of operation.
   
  For stereo jacks, I would use the Deoxit treatments first (cleaner, then protectant). Bending does help, just know what you are doing and dont over do it.
  I prefer Deoxit though for high quality stereo equipment, hands down.
  After spraying Deoxit inside the jack, work the phono plug back and forth inside the jack to help break down the oxidization. (aids in cleaning the jack)


----------



## TruBrew

So you shove a pensil into the jack? So I am clear. I think I understand Skylab's suggestion. I guess a flashlight and something skinny would do the trick, as far as bending the connectors goes.

  Quote: 





livewire said:


> I deal with old, oxidized 1/4 inch phone jacks almost everyday at work.
> They are usually nickel plated and since they are exposed to the outside air, will oxidize over time, especially if not plugged and unplugged regularly.
> We use a rubber pencil eraser to abraid the jack contact points, as well as the phono plug. This always remedies the problem.
> Then a quick spritz of some quick evaporating electrical solvent to blow out the residue and you're done.
> ...


----------



## livewire

Most pencils are too fat to reach into the jack.
  Remove the cover and gain access to the jack's internals. Most older jack designs are not sealed units.
  In some cases the jack may need to be unscrewed (loosen  or remove the nut that secures the jack)
  then pull out of the front panel if the wire harness length permits. Cutting & resoldering wires may be necessary.
  This of course applies to the medical devices I work on.
  Access may vary on stereo equipment, depending on the design / internal layout of the unit.
   
  Here again for stereo refurb, I always use Deoxit as described in my last post and it hasn't let me down yet.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I just missed a nice local Pioneer Sx-550 for $40.  But the guy has a Pioneer SX 650 for $75 but the face of one of the knobs is missing.  Darn it!
  .


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I think I understand Skylab's suggestion. I guess a flashlight and something skinny would do the trick, as far as bending the connectors goes.


 


 That will work if you can control the amount of bending force and are sure which way you are bending the contact arms.
  A skinny dental tool works ok. I prefer to remove the cover and gain access to the jack's internals if it is an unsealed unit,
  then bend the contact arm(s) with a small needle nose plier or dental pick from the inside.
  Much easier to control things this way and you can see what you are doing.
  More work than the front entry method  or cleaning though.
   
  Actually I'll only bend the jack's internals in a pinch if it's "looey-goosey" and I dont have a replacement jack handy.
  Also some jacks act as a switch when the phono plug is inserted,
  so first one must be sure which are the correct contacts to bend and which will be compromised if bent.
  Cleaning in one form or another usually gets the job done.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





livewire said:


> That will work if you can control the amount of bending force and are sure which way you are bending the contact arms.
> A skinny dental tool works ok. I prefer to remove the cover and gain access to the jack's internals if it is an unsealed unit,
> then bend the contact arm(s) with a small needle nose plier. Much easier to control things this way and you can see what you are doing.
> More work than the front entry method  or cleaning though.
> ...


 

 If its loose from a lot of use would you rather try to bend it tighter or replace it?


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I just missed a nice local Pioneer Sx-550 for $40.  But the guy has a Pioneer SX 650 for $75 but the face of one of the knobs is missing.  Darn it!
> .


 


 Knobs for these Pioneers are ridiculously easy to find on ebay.
  I recently picked up a used 40mm large tuning knob for my SX-1010 on the bay.
  (I needed one because i robbed it for my KGSSHV stat amp project, he-he!)
   
  All the other knobs for it were available there too.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> If its loose from a lot of use would you rather try to bend it tighter or replace it?


 

 Definitely replace it.
  As I said above, I only bend it in a pinch (read: "field fix") and I do not have a good spare.
  If time permits I would rather put the device on the shelf and wait until I can procure a good part.


----------



## Wharfrat

Been listening almost exclusively with the SX-1250....one of the amazing things about that particular piece of gear (I also have a late '90's Pioneer VSX-456, which I haven't really spent much time using as a headphone amp being as its with the speaker setup in another room driving a pair of Dahlquist M909s)) is that I can more easily match up my collection of headphones with particular artists and get the kind of killer sound synergy betwixt the can and the music.  For example, try listening to Jaco Pastorius at 96/24 with a pair of D7000s thru a SX-1250 or Sonny Rollins with a pair of Thunderpants, Melody Gardot thru AD2000s...the SX-1250 is the Jewish matchmaker of music and equipment, to the point it can match a pig to a swan and have wedded bliss forevermore.
   
  Now if this is possible with Marantz, Sansui, Fisher, McIntosh?  Not ZDT, Trafomatic, Apex, Hifi-man?...Come on...did I fall in a hole and come out talking to a stoned worm on a toadstool?  You betcha, I sure feel like I did. Vintage gear, huh? Geez.....whoda thunkit?
   
  There seems to be alot of consensus that the LCD-2s are at their best with the SX-1250...hmmmm...gonna be giving it a try right about tomorrow...some Seattleites are gathering for a meet and there are rev2 LCDs and HE-6s in the crowd..plan to give them the microscopic treatment with the vintage...Tink97 is bringing his HK 430...
   
  Will report back on impressions....but yeah...vintage gear is something to write home about.  Sansui, but for the grace of God...here I come...


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





case sensitive said:


> I owned a pair of Swan Baton's way back when. Mighty musical little speaker.


 

 That's really cool, not many people remember those.
   
  I did a couple of stints with Swans Speakers when they were located here on PEI before they were bought by Hi-Vi Research and became the completely different Swans of today. The Baton marked Frank becoming interested in SET amps which at the time were just starting their resurgence to popularity and there weren't many speakers that worked well with them. While the Baton was a nice little budget speaker Frank went on to design a couple of really nice higher end speakers that worked extremely well with flea watt power, unfortunately that was close to the end and only a few made it out into the wild. I owned a pair of custom Swans based off one of those designs, mine were the same except the D'Appolito configuration was slightly tighter and the cabinet was crazy thick. I ended up selling them when we moved into our first house which didn't have the space for them, I kind of miss those wonderful beasts sometimes.


----------



## TruBrew

I don't know it is just because I am jewish, but that may be the funniest analogy I have seen on head-fi.
   
  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> the SX-1250 is the Jewish matchmaker of music and equipment, to the point it can match a pig to a swan and have wedded bliss forevermore.


----------



## Uri Cohen

If you want vintage but don't like them too big I picked up a Kenwood KA-3500 and its matching separate turner, the KT-5300, for $50 locally.  The amp is really small and only outputs 20w at I believe 8 ohm, but it will power just about anything you throw at it headphone wise.  
   
  Now only if I can get rid of the junk that's on the faceplate.....


----------



## Skylab

I bought these Pioneer orthos on eBay yesterday, mostly as they are such a nice match for the rest of my Pioneer gear:
   

   
   
  Got em for $40!  Anyone ever heard a pair of these? (SE-100)


----------



## moodyrn

Those appear to be in really nice shape.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> But the guy has a Pioneer SX 650 for $75 but the face of one of the knobs is missing.  Darn it!
> .


 

 The face of the knob is missing? There's no face on those knobs to miss as far as I'm aware. They're a single piece. Looks to me like there's just a sticker on it with the image of a hand print.
   
  se


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought these Pioneer orthos on eBay yesterday, mostly as they are such a nice match for the rest of my Pioneer gear:
> 
> Got em for $40!  Anyone ever heard a pair of these? (SE-100)


 

 Sweet score, Skylab! How do they sound?


----------



## Skylab

Will know in a few days - they just shipped out today.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

So... I made kind of an impulse decision and bid on a Pioneer SX-1050. To my surprise, I won! $400 plus shipping isn't exactly a bargain, but I don't think it's a big overpayment either: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170682283523&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:1123
   
  Nice to be joining the vintage Pioneer club, and we'll see how the Pioneer compares to my beloved Marantz 2238B.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought these Pioneer orthos on eBay yesterday, mostly as they are such a nice match for the rest of my Pioneer gear:
> 
> Got em for $40!  Anyone ever heard a pair of these? (SE-100)


 

 Aint that the truth, they look just like the rest of the SX line.


----------



## sinae

let us know how it compares to you other headphone amps 

is it completely restored already? Make sure to check all electrolyte caps..  

My sansui have old electrolyte caps that bumb from the bottom instead of from the top...

i had 3 bumped and maybe more.. ( have to restore it)

and even if they arent bump they might not work as they should and should be tested with oscilloscope or capacitor checker


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So... I made kind of an impulse decision and bid on a Pioneer SX-1050. To my surprise, I won! *$400 plus shipping* isn't exactly a bargain, but I don't think it's a big overpayment either: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170682283523&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:1123
> 
> Nice to be joining the vintage Pioneer club, and we'll see how the Pioneer compares to my beloved Marantz 2238B.


 

 If I was shipping a SX*** from the US it would cost over $500 shipping


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So... I made kind of an impulse decision and bid on a Pioneer SX-1050. To my surprise, I won! $400 plus shipping isn't exactly a bargain, but I don't think it's a big overpayment either: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170682283523&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:1123
> 
> Nice to be joining the vintage Pioneer club, and we'll see how the Pioneer compares to my beloved Marantz 2238B.


 


  Nice!  Seems like a decent price for one that has been recently serviced.  Congrats!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MrQ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> If I was shipping a SX*** from the US it would cost over $500 shipping


 

 OK, I feel better now.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nice!  Seems like a decent price for one that has been recently serviced.  Congrats!


 


  Thanks Rob! What's your overall impression of the quality of the phono stages in these big SX-series units? I currently run a Denon DL-103R on my P3-24 with an RSA F-117, but I may consider switching to the Dynavector 10x5 and using the Pioneer's phono input if it's remotely in the same league.


----------



## sinae

I went to service my sansui and the repair man told me it was fine.. 

He told me that white noise hiss is normal in vintage amps ... 
So i had to pay him for the checkup but my amp was still unlistenable with headphones :mad:

Guess some things are better done by yourself.. 
Wish i stayed one more year in electronic school..


----------



## Skylab

Quote:  





> Thanks Rob! What's your overall impression of the quality of the phono stages in these big SX-series units? I currently run a Denon DL-103R on my P3-24 with an RSA F-117, but I may consider switching to the Dynavector 10x5 and using the Pioneer's phono input if it's remotely in the same league.


 

 REALLY good.  This was the era where phono was everything.  Their phono stages were great.  I would encourage you to try it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> The face of the knob is missing? There's no face on those knobs to miss as far as I'm aware. They're a single piece. Looks to me like there's just a sticker on it with the image of a hand print.
> 
> se


 

 Hey your'e right!   I don't know how I missed that hand print!  My mind just saw a broken knob and I thought that was just the glue that was holding it in place.    I'm going to email the guy and find out whats up with that sticker...


----------



## elnero

The Harman Kardon 730 just arrived. Initial impressions are "wow, this thing is a lot bigger than I envisioned" and "sounds very nice with the LCD-2's, silky and seductive".


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





elnero said:


> The Harman Kardon 730 just arrived. Initial impressions are "wow, this thing is a lot bigger than I envisioned" and "sounds very nice with the LCD-2's, silky and seductive".


 

 Congratulations, any pictures of this beast with them LCD-2?


----------



## treal512

Quote:


elnero said:


> The Harman Kardon 730 just arrived. Initial impressions are "wow, this thing is a lot bigger than I envisioned" and "sounds very nice with the LCD-2's, silky and seductive".


 
   
  Pictures and more impressions!


----------



## elnero

Sorry, all I can get is a crappy iPhone pic right at the moment.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought these Pioneer orthos on eBay yesterday, mostly as they are such a nice match for the rest of my Pioneer gear:
> 
> Got em for $40!  Anyone ever heard a pair of these? (SE-100)


 

 No one on HF has admitted owning one, though other folks on other forums seem to like the SE-100 a lot. Since it physically resembles the Sony ECR-500 electret, many of us have long wondered what's inside the SE-100.. and, of course, how it sounds.


----------



## Skylab

wualta said:


> No one on HF has admitted owning one, though other folks on other forums seem to like the SE-100 a lot. Since it physically resembles the Sony ECR-500 electret, many of us have long wondered what's inside the SE-100.. and, of course, how it sounds.



Interesting! Well I am really looking forward to getting these now! Hope they come by end of week.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hey your'e right!   I don't know how I missed that hand print!


 

 Took a bit before I figured it out.
   




   
   
  Quote: 





> I'm going to email the guy and find out whats up with that sticker...


 
   
  Good luck! Hope I was right.
   
  se


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





elnero said:


> The Harman Kardon 730 just arrived. Initial impressions are "wow, this thing is a lot bigger than I envisioned" and "sounds very nice with the LCD-2's, silky and seductive".


 


  Sounds like you enjoy the combo.  haha


----------



## AuralRelations

Does anyone know of a place in the Bay Area, CA that restores vintage receivers? I just tried out the phono stage on my SX-850 and it hums really badly and the channels also cut out  from time to time. Wanted to recap this myself but I've never done it before and I don't want to mess it up. I really like the 850 and want to keep it alive!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Does anyone know of a place in the Bay Area, CA that restores vintage receivers? I just tried out the phono stage on my SX-850 and it hums really badly and the channels also cut out  from time to time. Wanted to recap this myself but I've never done it before and I don't want to mess it up. I really like the 850 and want to keep it alive!


 

 I personally dont know, but try AudioKarma, they can help you over their.


----------



## wualta

Good suggestion. Make sure your selector switch contacts and phono-input RCA jacks are clean, and make sure you've connected the ground wire from your turntable. If you've done all that, tell the folks at AK what's up and see if anyone's got an idea.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Good suggestion. Make sure your selector switch contacts and phono-input RCA jacks are clean, and make sure you've connected the ground wire from your turntable. If you've done all that, tell the folks at AK what's up and see if anyone's got an idea.


 

 Yes, I definitely frequent AK as well but it seems their site is down for today. I'll get a big can of Deoxit and make sure to doubly clean all of the jacks and switches. Last time I had her open, everything seemed fine. No obviously sign of leaky or shorted caps. I did have the turntable hooked up to the grounding post but it didn't reduce the hum at all. It's quite strange.


----------



## Skylab

None of the other inputs hum?


----------



## diodiel

Hi there guys! i recently bought a Yamaha R-500 receiver for 30$ what do you guys think about that receiver and price? it did looked clean but i havent plugged it in yet though... its also missing an antenna, i belive its the blacke square thingy at the back, not sure how to get those


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





diodiel said:


> Hi there guys! i recently bought a Yamaha R-500 receiver for 30$ what do you guys think about that receiver and price? it did looked clean but i havent plugged it in yet though... its also missing an antenna, i belive its the blacke square thingy at the back, not sure how to get those


 

 Not bad. Made in the early 1980's and 180 watts. Did you get it from an audio reseller or a homeowner? They go for $30 fair market value, i hope everything works out to be fine.


----------



## Questhate

My coworker came to me at yesterday and said that he inherited a "cheap, old receiver" from his parents, and he wanted advice on some nice but cheap speakers to go with it. When I asked him what kind of receiver was it, his reply was: 
   
  "Never heard of the brand -- it's a Sansui 9090DB???" 
   
  Oh, my lordy. I was so tempted to tell him that it was crap and that I'd take it off his hands for $50 for spare parts. 
   
  Anyway, anyone know of the best place to get some affordable speakers for this thing? Is craigslist/SA/GW the best source? I don't think he's trying to spend more than a couple hundred dollars.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





questhate said:


> My coworker came to me at yesterday and said that he inherited a "cheap, old receiver" from his parents, and he wanted advice on some nice but cheap speakers to go with it. When I asked him what kind of receiver was it, his reply was:
> 
> "Never heard of the brand -- it's a Sansui 9090DB???"
> 
> ...


 

 Nice, hopefully he'll sell it too you. Id maybe pair it with some Sansui speakers, JBL's, Pioneer, or Klipsch's.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So... I made kind of an impulse decision and bid on a Pioneer SX-1050. To my surprise, I won! $400 plus shipping isn't exactly a bargain, but I don't think it's a big overpayment either: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170682283523&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:1123
> 
> Nice to be joining the vintage Pioneer club, and we'll see how the Pioneer compares to my beloved Marantz 2238B.


 


  I am jealous. I love the Pioneer and that one is a great one like all the SX series. Hopefully its as advertised but there is a company in NY that rebuilds for 375.00 complete plus shipping. Great amp and enjoy it. I am keeping my eyes peeled for either a 850-1250 on craigs list nothing coming up for months. The 850 series starts the real wood cabinets.


----------



## Meewoo

@AuralRelations
  If you follow other guys suggestion and it still hums, check your RCA cable. I had the similar problem once and I figured out that my RCA cable was loosely plugged into the port. A good RCA cable solved problem for me.
  May you work this out.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





skylab said:


> None of the other inputs hum?


 
   
  None of the other inputs hum. I'm currently using a V-LPS into the AUX as a work around for the phono stage. I'll definitely take it apart and give the jacks a good cleaning. 
   
  I grabbed some mascara brushes at Sephora with my girlfriend. These things are perfect for cleaning inside the RCA jacks!


----------



## shipsupt

I just found a guy out in Pleasanton/Dublin, but I have no experience with him... PM me and I can give you his details if you're interested.  I was going to stop in and see what he's got in his shop etc... to try and get a feel for what he can do but ran out of time this past weekend.
   
  As for the Hum... I had a (very) similar issue with my 650.  I did a pretty major deoxit bath on the internals and connections and found that one of the RCA plugs from the TT was pretty worn.  It was giving me a pretty bad connection.  Cleaned, tightened, and things are sounding pretty good again... 
   
  That said, instead of putting money into the 650, I decided to upgrade.  I picked up my re-capped SX-950 from the post office today!  Talk about a huge box to lug around.  It reminds me why I like CL better than e-bay, local pick up!
   
  I can't wait to get home and fire this big boy up!
  
  Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Does anyone know of a place in the Bay Area, CA that restores vintage receivers? I just tried out the phono stage on my SX-850 and it hums really badly and the channels also cut out  from time to time. Wanted to recap this myself but I've never done it before and I don't want to mess it up. I really like the 850 and want to keep it alive!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I am jealous. I love the Pioneer and that one is a great one like all the SX series. Hopefully its as advertised but there is a company in NY that rebuilds for 375.00 complete plus shipping. Great amp and enjoy it. I am keeping my eyes peeled for either a 850-1250 on craigs list nothing coming up for months. The 850 series starts the real wood cabinets.


 

 Yeah, I've seen a couple folks that advertise SX-series rebuilds on ebay. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but if it does I still wouldn't mind paying to have a fully rebuilt 1050 around the house.
   
  Plus, I'd like to think that my own DIY skills will be good enough in a few years to do most of the work myself -- though I'm not particularly interested in using one of these monster receivers as a guinea pig!


----------



## Skylab

Pioneer HPM-100's sound great with the 9090DB, and make a full vintage rig  

They are typically $300 ish a pair though. Well, well worth it, but some might not consider them "cheap". They are really very nice, full range speakers.


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Nice, hopefully he'll sell it too you. Id maybe pair it with some Sansui speakers, JBL's, Pioneer, or Klipsch's.


 

 Yeah, no. I couldn't live with myself if I swindled him, so I let him know what a nice little treasure he had on his hands. He's going to keep it and look for some nice speakers.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Pioneer HPM-100's sound great with the 9090DB, and make a full vintage rig
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet! I saw there was a couple of pairs of them on sale here, so I forwarded him the ads. Hopefully he pulls the trigger so I can go over to his place to check it out.


----------



## wualta

Hmm.. AK is still down. But yeah, if the Aural's turntable doesn't hum with any other amp, I'm beginning to suspect mechanical wear on/in the RCA jacks... ..if that isn't it, and the jack panel is soldered directly into a PCB, could be a cold or overflexed solder joint.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Hmm.. AK is still down. But yeah, if the Aural's turntable doesn't hum with any other amp, I'm beginning to suspect mechanical wear on/in the RCA jacks... ..if that isn't it, and the jack panel is soldered directly into a PCB, could be a cold or overflexed solder joint.


 

 Thanks for all the help, guys. I'm suspecting the RCA jacks at this point too since the hum is really bad on the phono inputs and fine on the aux and tape in/out. I'm going to order some more Deoxit and blast her clean. I'll also check for any leaky caps and cold solder joints while I'm in there.


----------



## dBel84

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I bought these Pioneer orthos on eBay yesterday, mostly as they are such a nice match for the rest of my Pioneer gear:
> 
> 
> Got em for $40!  Anyone ever heard a pair of these? (SE-100)


 

 Ortho in the broadest sense , they are electrets. I have never heard these but there is some similarity between these and the sony tets ( which are said to sound glorious ) wualta would know, he is the sensei to all things planar. 
   
  good score though, even if they sound awful, the bits are worth tinkering with. 
   
  ..dB
   
   
  edit - I missed a page !!, seems our resident guru has already chimed in, looking forward to your thoughts Rob


----------



## Skylab

Yeah looking forward to getting them...just noted that this particular eBay seller only ships on Fridays...grrrrr...so won't get them until sometime next week.


----------



## wualta

In this case, the "guru" knows absolutely nothing, but to compare and contrast I'll put up a picture of the ECR-500 for those unfamiliar with it. Note that the back of the ECR is open, while the Pioneer's back is closed with several little slits for venting. Anyone who's been on the Ortho thread knows that putting a flat, reflective surface behind a dipole diaphragm vastly increases treble. But maybe Pioneer lined this plate with fiberglass or rock wool. In any case, even if the driver is the same (not likely, since Sony was touting their monopole-electret pentagonal-shaped diaphragm and wide wide stator spacing, but you never know), chances are the two 'phones are going to sound very different, or at least have very different headstage characteristics. So Rob, once you've got the SE-100 characterized, we'll have to find you an ECR-400 or 500 to go with it. Take a look:


----------



## Skylab

Interesting! What do those Sonys usually go for?

I have a pair of vintage dynamic driver Pioneers, the SE-50. They are 8 ohm! And they are very dark sounding. So if the SE-100 are bright it would be a surprise. But it's quite possible I suppose. We shall see!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wualta said:


> In this case, the "guru" knows absolutely nothing, but I'll put up a picture of the ECR-500 for those unfamiliar with it. Note that the back of the ECR is open, while the Pioneer's back is closed with a few little slits for venting. Anyone who's been on the Ortho thread know that putting a flat, reflective surface behind a dipole diaphragm vastly increases treble. But maybe Pioneer lined this plate with fiberglass or rock wool. In any case, even if the driver is the same (not likely, since Sony was touting their monopole-electret pentagonal-shaped diaphragm and wide wide stator spacing, but you never know), chances are the two 'phones are going to sound very different, or at least have very different headstage characteristics. So Rob, once you've got the SE-100 characterized, we'll have to find you an ECR-400 or 500 to go with it. Take a look:


 
   
  Very nice little setup, i am still very unfamiliar with woodie headphone amplifiers. Did you grab it on da bay?


----------



## dBel84

Pioneer made some interesting headphones back in the day, I had a chance to listen to a pair of their piezo headphones , really difficult to drive and before I had a transformer box or 2 lying about. Many old gems to be had if you care to look and risk. 
   
  and here is something for this thread in case you think the planar heads are taking over 
   
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?misctunr&1318086080 , it is a kenwood KT 7001 for $275
   





   
  wow , they have quite a few vintage receivers - marantz, mcintosch, fischer. 
   
  ..dB


----------



## sluker

Here is some Sansui ****.
  My AU 717, which just came back from a tune up. Recapped and cleaned for $90 at a local repair shop. It needs a good front face cleaning but I couldn't wait to hook it up and remind myself how awesome it sounds with the HE5-LE's and Steve's Q cable.


----------



## diodiel

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Not bad. Made in the early 1980's and 180 watts. Did you get it from an audio reseller or a homeowner? They go for $30 fair market value, i hope everything works out to be fine.


 

 >.< it was from a thrift store something is wrong im pretty sure ahh, cuz it just sound broken like its so distorted esp when i put the volume a lil louder than low, only adele's voice is not distorted, not sure whats wrong maybe i need to warm it up


----------



## sesshin

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Here is some Sansui ****.
> My AU 717, which just came back from a tune up. Recapped and cleaned for $90 at a local repair shop. It needs a good front face cleaning but I couldn't wait to hook it up and remind myself how awesome it sounds with the HE5-LE's and Steve's Q cable.


 

 Where did you get that work done? When I've called around to LA / SD shops all the quotes came in around $300, possibly more. Everyone wanted at least $100 just to look at the thing.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





diodiel said:


> >.< it was from a thrift store something is wrong im pretty sure ahh, cuz it just sound broken like its so distorted esp when i put the volume a lil louder than low, only adele's voice is not distorted, not sure whats wrong maybe i need to warm it up


 

 Well if it something your going to have for years,and years, and years; id recommend getting it serviced. It might be the caps or something, or it may be a simple DeOxit job? Warm it up


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





dbel84 said:


> Pioneer made some interesting headphones back in the day, I had a chance to listen to a pair of their piezo headphones , really difficult to drive and before I had a transformer box or 2 lying about. Many old gems to be had if you care to look and risk.
> 
> and here is something for this thread in case you think the planar heads are taking over
> 
> ...


 

 Nice unit, personally i think its a little high, but still very nice.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Again I'm wondering.  Do you just let the tech guy replace the caps with whatever he has or does one request a certain brand?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Interesting! What do those Sonys usually go for?


 
  That's a painful question. 5 years ago, maybe $35 on That Certain Auction Site. Now, anything from there on up to Stax territory. [shudders] Watch for a good price and pounce.


  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Very nice little setup, i am still very unfamiliar with woodie headphone amplifiers.


 
  You'll see the little boxes that accompany old electrostats called amps, but they're just step-up transformers, some protection circuitry and some other minor stuff. But that makes 'em perfect for this thread, because you hook 'em up to your newly-got vintage receiver or amp and hear _every little thing that amp's doing. _Old 'stats rely on the robustness and quality of these old amps to drive the difficult loads these 'phones present. And man, speaking of _difficult_:

  
   Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dBel84* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I had a chance to listen to a pair of [Pioneer's] piezo headphones , really difficult to drive...


 
  Difficult for a typical modern headphone amp to drive, yes, since they were never intended to know that such a thing as a piezo headphone ever existed. Ah, but for one of these muscular old receivers... In fact, the SE-700 not only sounds halfway decent, it's a testosterone test of your amp's grunt, since it presents one of the scarier loads an amp could see: pure capacitance. The amp thinks you're trying to drive an electrostatic panel directly or some such nonsense. Fortunately, I don't think any of the amps discussed so far would have a problem with the SE-700. To get them to play their loudest, though, you might have to tap the speaker outputs.
   
   
  Sluker, that's a cool Sansui, and I'd have one myself if it weren't for clueless packing. Classic styling. And $90 for a recap is amazing. More photos as you see fit, please.


----------



## diodiel

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Well if it something your going to have for years,and years, and years; id recommend getting it serviced. It might be the caps or something, or it may be a simple DeOxit job? Warm it up


 

 ill play it over night i just hope it doesnt burn my house while i sleep. lol ill try to research about deoxit cuz i dont know anything about the inside of receivers lol


----------



## shipsupt

I just went with the what the tech suggested.  Here is the run down on the service done to the SX-950 I received today:
   
_[size=xx-large][size=small]All the pots and switches have been cleaned with Deoxit and Faderlube and work perfectly with no noise or static. The DC-offset and idle current have been set and adjusted to spec. All the lights have been tested, with the speaker A lamp being replaced. The fuses were checked for corrosion and proper rating and replaced where necessary.[/size][/size]_

_[size=xx-large][size=small]This amp has been fully recapped, the general purpose and power supply caps were replaced with Nichicon PW and HE caps, the orange low noise and tantalum caps were replaced with [size=small]Nichicon KL caps and [/size][size=small][size=small]Panasonic ECQ stacked film caps for[/size][/size][size=small] the caps under 1uF. Problem transistors, the 2SA725 and 726's were replaced with Fairchild Semiconductor KSA992's. Two transistors in the power supply, Q5 and Q7 that commonly have problems with overheating and failing were replaced,[/size][size=small] Q5 with a [/size][size=xx-large][size=small][size=small]Fairchild Semiconductor KSC2690AYS and Q7 with a [/size][/size][/size][size=xx-large][size=small][size=small]Fairchild Semiconductor [/size][/size][/size][size=xx-large][size=small][size=small]KSC2383YBU, both have better heat dissipation then the originals and stay cooler[/size][/size][/size][size=small]. Also three of the outputs were replaced with two NOS 2SB557's and one 2SD427.[/size][/size][/size]_
   
  I fired her up tonight and everything works great.  It sounds wonderful.  I looked under the hood and his work looks good.  I would have posted some pictures, but there was a downside to the story... in spite of some serious packing, double boxed and all, the glass plate was cracked around the tuning knob.  Heartbreaking.  It is simply beautiful otherwise.  I guess it's part of the chance we take when we purchase these big units from the bay.  In the past I've stuck with local pick ups, and I'll probably try to do that in the future.
   
  I've located a local repair shop so I'll contact him tomorrow and start the search for replacement glass.  In the mean time I am not letting the cracked glass get in my way, I'm enjoying the Pioneer and it's vintage glory!  Getting ready to spin some vinyl. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Again I'm wondering.  Do you just let the tech guy replace the caps with whatever he has or does one request a certain brand?


----------



## diodiel

how much does the service usually cost, if i may ask.


----------



## shipsupt

I can't really offer what this service cost as it came as part of purchase of the unit.  I paid $320 for the 950, which included the service.  A lot more than what I paid for my SX-650, but I look at it as an upgrade and a piece of equipment that I plan to keep for a long time.  I figure I should get another 30 years, right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





diodiel said:


> how much does the service usually cost, if i may ask.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wualta said:


> You'll see the little boxes that accompany old electrostats called amps, but they're just step-up transformers, some protection circuitry and some other minor stuff. But that makes 'em perfect for this thread, because you hook 'em up to your newly-got vintage receiver or amp and hear _every little thing that amp's doing. _Old 'stats rely on the robustness and quality of these old amps to drive the difficult loads these 'phones present. And man, speaking of _difficult_:


 

 I know, its like a speaker amp for headphones! What other vintage headphones come accompanied with a transformer besides Stax?


----------



## diodiel

yeah congrats btw! i gotta find myself those monsters like yours
  Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> I can't really offer what this service cost as it came as part of purchase of the unit.  I paid $320 for the 950, which included the service.  A lot more than what I paid for my SX-650, but I look at it as an upgrade and a piece of equipment that I plan to keep for a long time.  I figure I should get another 30 years, right?


----------



## susannahyork

Is it possible to connect powered 2.0 speakers to the pre out on my Marantz 2252b?  And if so is there a setting ala speaker a/b for selecting the preamp section?  Or would the tape out be an option?  
   
  I am running the Marantz from my computer and mainly use it with headphones, but it would be convenient to be able to run my 2.0 speakers through it as well if possible.
   
  Thanks for any advice, I am new to all of this.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Interesting! What do those Sonys usually go for?
> 
> I have a pair of vintage dynamic driver Pioneers, the SE-50. They are 8 ohm! And they are very dark sounding. So if the SE-100 are bright it would be a surprise. But it's quite possible I suppose. We shall see!


 

 I found the ECR-500 to sound quite warm and a little dark, but fast.  ericj brought a pair to the 2008 Colorado Meet.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I know, its like a speaker amp for headphones! What other vintage headphones come accompanied with a transformer besides Stax?


 

  All electrostats and most electrets used transformer stepups hooked up to regular speaker amps until oh, around the mid-'80s, early '90s or so: Koss introduced the ESP.950 with a dedicated amp and Stax stopped making the SRD-7 Mk2  transformer box. Stax was making dedicated 'stat amps in the '70s but not that many people bought 'em. Get a Stax SRD-7 Mk2 box and you can adapt just about any 'stat, except the hyperspendy ones, to it. The ECR-500 might be an exception, because it needs more step-up than 'stats of its era, because of the wide stator spacing.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Here is some Sansui ****.
> My AU 717, which just came back from a tune up. Recapped and cleaned for $90 at a local repair shop. It needs a good front face cleaning but I couldn't wait to hook it up and remind myself how awesome it sounds with the HE5-LE's and Steve's Q cable.


 
   
  Sweet!
   
  Had me scratching my head there for a bit. I couldn't believe that something as old as that 717 would have an 1/8" headphone jack. Did a Google image search and they all looked like 1/4" jacks. Then I pulled up the full size version of your photo and finally noticed you've got an adapter in there.
   
  se


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wualta said:


> All electrostats and most electrets used transformer stepups hooked up to regular speaker amps until oh, around the mid-'80s, early '90s or so: Koss introduced the ESP.950 with a dedicated amp and Stax stopped making the SRD-7 Mk2  transformer box. Stax was making dedicated 'stat amps in the '70s but not that many people bought 'em. Get a Stax SRD-7 Mk2 box and you can adapt just about any 'stat, except the hyperspendy ones, to it. The ECR-500 might be an exception, because it needs more step-up than 'stats of its era, because of the wide stator spacing.


 

 So mainly Sony, Koss and Stax was in the electrostac race?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> So mainly Sony, Koss and Stax was in the electrostac race?


 

 The big players in the North American market were Stax and Koss. Stax OEM'd a lot of cheap 'stats for Radio Shack, Magnavox, Marantz and probably Superex. But Beyer made a 'stat, and so did Sennheiser. Do a search on HF and you'll find a bunch of 'em.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wualta said:


> The big players in the North American market were Stax and Koss. Stax OEM'd a lot of cheap 'stats for Radio Shack, Magnavox, Marantz and probably Superex. But Beyer made a 'stat, and so did Sennheiser. Do a search on HF and you'll find a bunch of 'em.


 

 Well i already know i cant afford them Sennheisers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




So that beautiful tube amp for the Orpheus is pretty much a transformer?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





			
				cifani090 said:
			
		

> So that beautiful tube amp for the Orpheus is pretty much a transformer?


 
_I've_ never thought so.. But now that you mention it, it's too pretty to be much of a transformer.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


skylab said:


> I bought these Pioneer orthos on eBay yesterday, mostly as they are such a nice match for the rest of my Pioneer gear:
> 
> Got em for $40!  Anyone ever heard a pair of these? (SE-100)


 

 Nice find and excellent price - I hope they work well for you. I've got a pair of Audio-Technica electrets (ATH-7), and am in love with the detail, and airy spaciousness; I might prefer them for acoustic music over the HE-6. I'm less in love with the comfort (the cups are at fixed angles and the pads are on-ear), but given their current condition (loose wires, decaying pads and headband), I intend to treat the unit as a project resource rather than something to restore to original condition, and maybe see if I can get some of the bass back while using larger pads.
   
  Despite electrets' notorious thirst for power, I found the ATH-7 to deal with low-wattage amps gracefully. It really is a nice little package.
   

  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Well i already know i cant afford them Sennheisers
> 
> 
> 
> ...






  In the sense that it transforms low gain to high, I suppose.


----------



## ardgedee

Haven't seen anybody mention this yet: Somebody on Hackaday made an iPhone-controllable Marantz 4240...
   
   
  Quote: 





> *Adding wireless controls to vintage stereo equipment*
> [Jean] was shopping around for a vintage stereo receiver, and happened upon a broken, but repairable Marantz 4240. After getting things back to working order, he thought it would be great if he could use his iPhone to remotely control the unit.
> 
> He scrounged around for parts, and after locating a PIC and a handful of parts from old copiers and printers, he got down to business. He etched some custom boards to house electronic bits, then strapped motors to the volume and source selection knobs. He also rigged up the push button power switch on the receiver, using a small servo and a bit of string....


----------



## diodiel

found a deal 20$ for a pioneer sx-626 ^_^ ill just give my yamaha r-500 to my dad, he can just put two speakers on L side on speaker 1 and 2 cuz the r side has distortion.
  still liking my akai aa-1125 tho iono what to do with it...
   
  any suggestions whats speakers would match the sx-626?
   
   
  oh man i just found an hpm100 for 180$ but thats too big for the sx626 >.< lol confused
   
  http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/2562317497.html


----------



## Wharfrat

Argedee wrote: "I've got a pair of Audio-Technica electrets (ATH-7), and am in love with the detail, and airy spaciousness; I might prefer them for acoustic music over the HE-6. I'm less in love with the comfort (the cups are at fixed angles and the pads are on-ear)".
   
  I was just at a meet this past weekend in Seattle and a Head-fier whose name I never got showed up with a pristine pair of ATH-706 cans and amplifier, in its original box and with "just printed yesterday" quality user brochures.  But I simply couldn't bring myself to listen to them because I knew the small pads, barely covering one's ear, were going to leak alot of the headphone sound and ruin the ambience in the room, as I tend to play pretty loudly compared to the rest of ya'lls.  If I get a chance to be alone in a room with them...I'll write back. 
   
  BTW, how much do they go for?  I saw very few posts about them on Head-fi, with a pristine pair going up for sale back in 2009 (which I think may be the one I saw).


----------



## treal512

This morning I was awoken by a loud knock on the door and immediately jumped out of bed knowing what was in store. I have been looking at receivers for a while now and finally something came along that spoke to me. The price, condition, history and seller lined up, so I quickly pulled on it.
   
  Cosmetically there is only 1 small blemish on the front left bottom, but only someone inspecting this would barely be able to catch it. With that said, the HK730 sounds great! Of course, this is only going off of the first 2 songs I found on the tuner (Bob FM). The first song was Sammy Hagar's "I Can't Drive 55," which had me rockin' out (HE-5LE via 1/4in) in the kitchen in my boxers. The second song was "Jukebox Hero" by Foreigner which was just as rockin'. Really happy with my purchase so far. Here is a cell phone pic for added entertainment


----------



## sluker

Congrats!
  That is a nice looking unit.


----------



## cifani090

I have been thinking my SX-1250 was needing a service, but it was the stupid multipath


----------



## lwrs10

I have a garage full of old receivers. Right now on a normal basis I use:
   
  Pioneer SX-1250
  Pioneer SX-1280
  Pioneer SX-1980
  Sansui G9000DB
  Sansui 9090 non-db
  Yamaha CR-2020
  Marantz 2270
  Marantz 2330
   
   
  This is not including my seperates I have. My main system consist of Yamaha M-80's, Onkyo Grand Integra preamp, etc. 
   
  I have wayyy to much **** laying around. I also have over 100 pairs of headphones. And it all started with Head-fi in 2007 when I joined. By recommendation I bought some Grado SR325i's. And still love them. But the family has grown.  I blame you guys....


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





lwrs10 said:


> I have a garage full of old receivers. Right now on a normal basis I use:
> 
> Pioneer SX-1250
> Pioneer SX-1280
> ...


----------



## sansui

Quote: 





lwrs10 said:


> I have a garage full of old receivers. Right now on a normal basis I use:
> 
> Pioneer SX-1250
> Pioneer SX-1280
> ...


 

 some pictures will be just fine


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





lwrs10 said:


> I have a garage full of old receivers. Right now on a normal basis I use:
> 
> Pioneer SX-1250
> Pioneer SX-1280
> ...


 

 Can i borrow a piece or two? Will you be fine if you dont get it back


----------



## Skylab

No kidding!  Wow what a list!


----------



## lwrs10

Computer setup. Onkyo Integra integrated amp. A-8067. Rega Planet TT. Klipsch speakers. Infinity subwoofer. Not shown is my homebuilt tube headphone amp. 
   

   
  Top view of the TT
   

   
   
   
  My "fix it" room.
   
  Sansui G9000DB hooked up to Pioneer HPM-40's
   

   
   
  The "rebuild" pile. There is a Pioneer SX-1250, SX-1280, Sansui G8000, and a Yamaha CR-2020 there.....among lots of other goodies...
   

   
   
   
  My Garage. 

   
   
   
  My main system. It has changed a bit since this pic. 
   

   
   
   
  And lots of other misc stuff hiding around the house....


----------



## treal512

Well sheesh, can I come over?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





lwrs10 said:


> Computer setup. Onkyo Integra integrated amp. A-8067. Rega Planet TT. Klipsch speakers. Infinity subwoofer. Not shown is my homebuilt tube headphone amp.
> 
> Top view of the TT
> 
> ...


 

 Where do you find all these pieces? Garage sales?


----------



## lwrs10

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Where do you find all these pieces? Garage sales?


 


  and the trash...and thrift stores......and Craigslist....


----------



## cifani090

lwrs, i suppose this is a question for you. What shall i get a Sansui G5500 or 801?


----------



## sansui

G-801,no doubt


----------



## lwrs10

I was replying to your thread on AK btw.....
   
  801.
   
  The 801 is a black faced G8000. I would love to find me one of those...


----------



## sansui

@ lwrs10... I prefer your garage... more then your room


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sansui said:


> @ lwrs10... I prefer your garage... more then your room


 


  x2!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





lwrs10 said:


> I was replying to your thread on AK btw.....
> 
> 801.
> 
> The 801 is a black faced G8000. I would love to find me one of those...


 

 ? Its not black faced, but i wish it was. Maybe its just the picture.


----------



## sansui

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> ? Its not black faced, but i wish it was. Maybe its just the picture.


 

 no,no,...not black..it is titan  (G-*71 series have black facia), and is rosewood finsh...that is only diferences compared to G-*000 I know


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Argedee wrote: "I've got a pair of Audio-Technica electrets (ATH-7), and am in love with the detail, and airy spaciousness; I might prefer them for acoustic music over the HE-6. I'm less in love with the comfort (the cups are at fixed angles and the pads are on-ear)".
> 
> I was just at a meet this past weekend in Seattle and a Head-fier whose name I never got showed up with a pristine pair of ATH-706 cans and amplifier, in its original box and with "just printed yesterday" quality user brochures.  But I simply couldn't bring myself to listen to them because I knew the small pads, barely covering one's ear, were going to leak alot of the headphone sound and ruin the ambience in the room, as I tend to play pretty loudly compared to the rest of ya'lls.  If I get a chance to be alone in a room with them...I'll write back.
> 
> BTW, how much do they go for?  I saw very few posts about them on Head-fi, with a pristine pair going up for sale back in 2009 (which I think may be the one I saw).


 

 I bought a pair of ATH-7s from a neighbor (who got them at a garage sale) for $25.  Found them to be very power hungy with solid state amps.  Sounded pretty good, but bass-light.


----------



## cifani090

Quote:  





> no,no,...not black..it is titan  (G-*71 series have black facia), and is rosewood finsh...that is only diferences compared to G-*000 I know


 






Got it


----------



## diodiel

didnt jump on pioneer hpm100s :\ it sounded good but i enjoyed the polk better for some reason... got a pair of a pretty clean looking rta 8ts with either brown or cherry finish instead. they wer in a much better condition too.. should be perfect for my living room  and might get the sx 626 soon! then im all set just a turn table left, fow now!


----------



## ardgedee

Movers delivered our worldly belongings to our new house on Monday... this evening I'm enjoying some good music on vintage kit in my new home, for the first time in weeks.
   
  Although I'm not permitting myself to assemble the listening chair until I've got enough of the rest of the house unboxed and put away, I feel like I can finally relax a little.
   
  Ahh.


----------



## cifani090

Anyone have a pair of Mach One speakers?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

So, my Pioneer SX-1050 arrived today! Despite the outer box being in rough condition, the receiver looks and sounds great! It drives both my LCD-2 and T1s effortlessly from the headphone jack, and while I wouldn't call it effortless with the HE-6, it nevertheless makes them sound better than either my Lyr or WA2.
   
  One thing I didn't consider is exactly how big this puppy is! I've seen them before, but you have to have them in your own place with your own stuff to truly appreciate their massiveness... and lo and behold, it doesn't fit in my Solidsteel rack! I don't love having my P3-24 on top, but I don't have any other choice right now!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So, my Pioneer SX-1050 arrived today! Despite the outer box being in rough condition, the receiver looks and sounds great! It drives both my LCD-2 and T1s effortlessly from the headphone jack, and while I wouldn't call it effortless with the HE-6, it nevertheless makes them sound better than either my Lyr or WA2.
> 
> One thing I didn't consider is exactly how big this puppy is! I've seen them before, but you have to have them in your own place with your own stuff to truly appreciate their massiveness... and lo and behold, it doesn't fit in my Solidsteel rack! I don't love having my P3-24 on top, but I don't have any other choice right now!


 

 I know, personally i like the heavy-ness factor of my 1250, which is 69 pounds. Now im looking for a TOTL receiver to top that


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I bought a pair of ATH-7s from a neighbor (who got them at a garage sale) for $25.  Found them to be very power hungy with solid state amps.  Sounded pretty good, but bass-light.


 
  Did it include the electret amplifier or just the headphones?

 "Bass-light" is somewhat synonymous with "ATH" for that matter...haven't heard much of a change in bass-presence between closed and open backed ATH cans regardless of amp changes, though I do love their midrange, which changes from being more recessed or upfront depending on the amp.  
   
  If you do have a pair of ATH-7s with the amplifier, could you post a pic of them, for the good of the fellowship?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Did it include the electret amplifier or just the headphones?
> 
> "Bass-light" is somewhat synonymous with "ATH" for that matter...haven't heard much of a change in bass-presence between closed and open backed ATH cans regardless of amp changes, though I do love their midrange, which changes from being more recessed or upfront depending on the amp.
> 
> If you do have a pair of ATH-7s with the amplifier, could you post a pic of them, for the good of the fellowship?


 

 They did come with the amplifier (just a transformer I think).  Pics are in this thread  http://www.head-fi.org/t/526475/audio-technica-at-705-electret-condenser-headphone


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





olias of sunhillow said:


> So, my Pioneer SX-1050 arrived today! Despite the outer box being in rough condition, the receiver looks and sounds great! It drives both my LCD-2 and T1s effortlessly from the headphone jack, and while I wouldn't call it effortless with the HE-6, it nevertheless makes them sound better than either my Lyr or WA2.
> 
> One thing I didn't consider is exactly how big this puppy is! I've seen them before, but you have to have them in your own place with your own stuff to truly appreciate their massiveness... and lo and behold, it doesn't fit in my Solidsteel rack! I don't love having my P3-24 on top, but I don't have any other choice right now!


 

 Nice, OOS!  Yeah, the size of these bad boys can be a surprise...neither of my big Pioneers fit "in" any of my racks either - only "on", as in on top


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Wharfrat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> "Bass-light" is somewhat synonymous with "ATH" for that matter...haven't heard much of a change in bass-presence between closed and open backed ATH cans regardless of amp changes, though I do love their midrange, which changes from being more recessed or upfront depending on the amp.
> 
> If you do have a pair of ATH-7s with the amplifier, could you post a pic of them, for the good of the fellowship?


 

 The AT-705 is the same headphone, but with a cost-reduced cute little transformer box, as the AT-706, which comes with a big honkin' transformer box that is styled to enhance the decor of your typical big honkin' mid-'70s receiver. In '77 or '78, Audio-Technica replaced these with the ultralight and ultraslim ATH-6 and ATH-7, respectively, with a similar difference in box sizes. BmWr75 has shown you the 705. The 706 and its box constitute a bit of a mystery, since one pair will have amazing bass but won't play loud before it distorts, and the next one will be really loud but have very little bass. The difference isn't in the box, either, so audition before you buy, etc etc.
   
  Here's the 706. Note the resemblance to the Stax SR-X of the same period:
   

   
  Now here's the successor ATH-7:
   

   
  Much slimmer headset, the sensitivity switch is gone (the ATH-8 got it), you've got an overload indicator, they've moved from the little DIN plug to a larger proprietary one, and we're into the Black Era, but it's otherwise similar. The problem with the ATH-7 and its big brother the ATH-8 is the same problem Stax had with the SR-X and PMB had with... just about all the headphones they made. The PVC pad coating has all gone poof, like most foams and flexible plastics of the era. So the pads don't seal, though they're very comfy. So they're even bass-lighter than they should be. Search for a pad with a thin, supple covering and a good dense filling (the ATH-7 used stacked cotton discs), and you'll get some of your bass back.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wualta said:


> The AT-705 is the same headphone, but with a cost-reduced cute little transformer box, as the AT-706, which comes with a big honkin' transformer box that is styled to enhance the decor of your typical big honkin' mid-'70s receiver. In '77 or '78, Audio-Technica replaced these with the ultralight and ultraslim ATH-6 and ATH-7, respectively, with a similar difference in box sizes. BmWr75 has shown you the 705. The 706 and its box constitute a bit of a mystery, since one pair will have amazing bass but won't play loud before it distorts, and the next one will be really loud but have very little bass. The difference isn't in the box, either, so audition before you buy, etc etc.
> 
> Here's the 706. Note the resemblance to the Stax SR-X of the same period:
> 
> ...


 

 Are those your AT?


----------



## ardgedee

I'll try to provide pics of my ATH-7 this weekend, as long as I can clear more work space in the office and the hurricane doesn't hold things up.


----------



## wualta

I do have a 706, but I skipped over the ATH-7 to the ATH-8, known in the US as the Signet TK33, and I always listen to it on this table as I sip my jasmine tea and contemplate my Audio-Technica phono cartridge (AT15SS with beryllium cantilever) in the company of one or two geishas.
   

   
  Above is a random-looking photo of an ATH-7 (one that's missing its head strap), but it does give a clear picture of how thin the earpieces are.


----------



## log0

I've spent the last couple days with the LCD-2 and SX-1250 combo and can report it handily beats the Luxman R-1120 I had purchased before in every category. I'm not sure how the LCD-2's can sound any better.
  Skylab - do you prefer the LCD-2's with the Leben CS300XS more so than your vintage Pioneers?


----------



## Skylab

log0 said:


> I've spent the last couple days with the LCD-2 and SX-1250 combo and can report it handily beats the Luxman R-1120 I had purchased before in every category. I'm not sure how the LCD-2's can sound any better.
> Skylab - do you prefer the LCD-2's with the Leben CS300XS more so than your vintage Pioneers?



The LCD-2 I do marginally prefer with the Leben, yes. But only very marginally. If i had owned the Pioneers first, I doubt I would have ever bought the Leben, to be honest...but that is really a testament to how good the big pioneers are with headphones. And the HE-6 is almost unbeatable from the SX-1250 or SX-1980.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Some more thoughts on my "new" SX-1050...
   
  I haven't opened it up for a look yet, but judging from the sound quality, it is thankfully not in need of an immediate rebuild (as we all fear might be the case with 35-year-old gear). The seller had indicated that it was "recently serviced" -- I didn't ask for details about that servicing, since I'd decided that I wanted the receiver regardless of whether it needed service or not, but now I'll go back and ask exactly what he had done.
   
  As Skylab had suggested might be the case, the phono section of this receiver sounds outstanding. I haven't extensively A/B'ed it vs. my F-117 Nighthawk, but I'm familiar enough with how the RSA unit sounds to say that the Pioneer is at least in the same league. Amazingly, it has enough gain in the phono section to sound great with my Denon DL-103R LOMC cartridge -- I had expected to need to switch to something with higher output, but even when used with my HE-6, the phono section sounds dynamic and plenty loud. Impressive.
   
  And speaking of the HE-6... they sound fantastic from the headphone jack. I may still get the HiFiMan speaker tap box to satisfy my curiosity, but the HE-6 show no weaknesses with the SX-1050. The just-right crispness of the treble remains in tact, while the bass is fuller and just as tight.
   
  I'm quite impressed so far.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The LCD-2 I do marginally prefer with the Leben, yes. But only very marginally. If i had owned the Pioneers first, I doubt I would have ever bought the Leben, to be honest...but that is really a testament to how good the big pioneers are with headphones. And the HE-6 is almost unbeatable from the SX-1250 or SX-1980.


 

 Does that go for both the SX 1250 and the 1980 or just the 1980?


----------



## moodyrn

If I had to guess, it would be both. My sx 1010 sounds exceptional with headphones that's a little on the warmer side of neutral, which the lcd have been reported as being. It also sounds excellent with pretty much anything else. Just a tad too analytical with my he-6, but just sublime with my jh13pro. I know, a 50+ lb receiver and a pair of iems wouldn't seem like a good match, but the pairing just sounds like they were made for each other.


----------



## Skylab

Oh yes, definitely both. I actually use the SX-1250 more often for headphones - I'm using the SX-1980 mostly with speakers. Both can easily drive the HE-6 extremely well right from the headphone jack. No problem whatsoever. 

Olias, glad you are enjoying your Pioneer too!


----------



## log0

The big Pioneers are an elegant amplifier for a more civilized age.


----------



## shipsupt

Instead of plunking down $35 on a faceplate from eBay to replace the damaged glass on my 950 I decided today to do little DIY vintage repair. The faceplate is easy to remove from the SX's so I had it off in no time. The glass plate is glued in place with something that resembles contact glue. I pried it free and then reassembled the broken pieces on a piece of paper to create a template. I traced the dimensions and traveled over to Taplastics. While I waited they cut a replacement from clear acrylic and we test mounted it in the face plate, perfect fit. I purchased some thin double sided tape they had as well. Back home, I cleaned the old adhesive from the surfaces, added strips of the tape, mounted the plastic, and reassembled. The tape was the most expensive part of the repair and brought my total to just over $10. She is back in her full glory! I spent the afternoon surfing the FM dial.

If you run into a unit with damaged glass, don't let it scare you off, the repair is pretty easy and cheap too.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





log0 said:


> The big Pioneers are an elegant amplifier for a more civilized age.


 


  Yes, It seems so.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Oh yes, definitely both. I actually use the SX-1250 more often for headphones - I'm using the SX-1980 mostly with speakers. Both can easily drive the HE-6 extremely well right from the headphone jack. No problem whatsoever.
> 
> Olias, glad you are enjoying your Pioneer too!


 


  Alright. I'm on a crazy mission now for an SX-1250.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Alright. I'm on a crazy mission now for an SX-1250.


 

 At least $400 big ones!


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Alright. I'm on a crazy mission now for an SX-1250.


 


 Good luck!
   
  I'm one of these people too.. Or the 9090DB..


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sweden said:


> Good luck!
> 
> I'm one of these people too.. Or the 9090DB..


 

 IMO if you want a Sansui, the G Series looks way better.


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Instead of plunking down $35 on a faceplate from eBay to replace the damaged glass on my 950 I decided today to do little DIY vintage repair. The faceplate is easy to remove from the SX's so I had it off in no time. The glass plate is glued in place with something that resembles contact glue. I pried it free and then reassembled the broken pieces on a piece of paper to create a template. I traced the dimensions and traveled over to Taplastics. While I waited they cut a replacement from clear acrylic and we test mounted it in the face plate, perfect fit. I purchased some thin double sided tape they had as well. Back home, I cleaned the old adhesive from the surfaces, added strips of the tape, mounted the plastic, and reassembled. The tape was the most expensive part of the repair and brought my total to just over $10. She is back in her full glory! I spent the afternoon surfing the FM dial.
> 
> If you run into a unit with damaged glass, don't let it scare you off, the repair is pretty easy and cheap too.


 


  Nice tip, I was going to see about a glass cutter in town but now I have an alternative. Thanks.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> IMO if you want a Sansui, the G Series looks way better.


 


  I am fond of G series always, especially x000 even though x700 has cool LED lights.
  Not long ago, I met an old audiophile who once had a record store. I told him I was looking for big Gs, but he suggested me to look for Sui Au integrate instead.  In his opinion, Au integrate is best sound Sui with tube-like sound. From our conversation, I do believe the old gent really knows the stuff, so I spread his thoughts here.


----------



## diodiel

just acquired the pioneer sx-626 9.8/10 condition, didnt know thats still possible lol. for 20$ best thing that ive ever bought! gonna post pics tonight or tom morning w/ my temp setup ! 
   
  Edit: Sorry about my BOTL picture taking skills and cam phone, and were moving out.
   
   
  head out actually sounded sweet, i think the sound stage and juice is good but then again my tma-1 doesnt need much power.

   

   

  Playing Eric Clapton unplugged CD, that i got on clearance from half priced books, from my Desktop's stock Scard  but still awesome for me
   
   
  hopefully i could add a nice TT and dac to the family


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I am fond of G series always, especially x000 even though x700 has cool LED lights.
> Not long ago, I met an old audiophile who once had a record store. I told him I was looking for big Gs, but he suggested me to look for Sui Au integrate instead.  In his opinion, Au integrate is best sound Sui with tube-like sound. From our conversation, I do believe the old gent really knows the stuff, so I spread his thoughts here.


 

 I have yet to own a big G, but i did have the AU-999 and it sounded very lush and IMO better than my 2270.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I have yet to own a big G, but i did have the AU-999 and it sounded very lush and IMO better than my 2270.


 

 Yes, the old gent was talking about old AU integrate, not the generation of and after AU-x17. I thought He referred  to AU before 1977 since he didn't talk my Au-517.
  Could someone refer me to a Sansui chronicle website? I googled but couldn't find good one.


----------



## livewire

*QUOTE: by diodiel *- _"just acquired the pioneer sx-626 9.8/10 condition, didnt know thats still possible lol. for 20$ best thing that ive ever bought!"_
   
  Dang! Only 20 somolians? You did well, she's a beaut!


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yes, the old gent was talking about old AU integrate, not the generation of and after AU-x17. I thought He referred  to AU before 1977 since he didn't talk my Au-517.
> Could someone refer me to a Sansui chronicle website? I googled but couldn't find good one.


 

This is the best I've been able to find.
   
  On another note, here's a better pick of my Harman Kardon 730
   

   
  I have to say I'm absolutely loving this beast with the LCD-2's. I have a line on a Pioneer SX-650 which, if all goes well, I should have here in the next week or two. Considering how happy I am with the HK I'm not sure if I'm crazy to bother but it seems like a pretty good deal so I figured it would give me an opportunity to compare the two.


----------



## cifani090

Here is a great blog post on some of these vintage beauties!
   
  http://gizmodo.com/5833352/hey-audiophile-five-baller-vintage-amps-that-are-dirt-cheap/gallery/1


----------



## diodiel

Quote: 





livewire said:


> *QUOTE: by diodiel *- _"just acquired the pioneer sx-626 9.8/10 condition, didnt know thats still possible lol. for 20$ best thing that ive ever bought!"_
> 
> Dang! Only 20 somolians? You did well, she's a beaut!


 
  yes and Thanks! im really enjoying the warmth that they give ^_^ id keep this forever unless a mint 828 pops out  + im just using them without the speaker plugs, not sure if thats a bad idea...
   
   
  anyways does any1 know if the 626 would be a good preamp


----------



## Sweden

Which Pioneer receiver would the Technics SA-5560 be most like?
  Anyone tried this thing?


----------



## Skylab

Seems like they were around the league of the Pioneer SX-950 or 980 back in the day, although they do not have nearly the same following with the vintage crowd, so not sure how good they actually were.


----------



## moodyrn

There has been some nice looking receivers posted lately, and yet there are still many gems to be discovered. The last year or so have really shown me that ss can also sound awesome. I've had too many misses in the past with ss gear. Too bad it's been limited to vintage gear. The only modern ss amps that i've liked so far has been limited to high end amps. Nothing budget or midfi has impressed me. Where would i be without my vintage gear.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> There has been some nice looking receivers posted lately, and yet there are still many gems to be discovered. The last year or so have really shown me that ss can also sound awesome. I've had too many misses in the past with ss gear. Too bad it's been limited to vintage gear. The only modern ss amps that i've liked so far has been limited to high end amps. Nothing budget or midfi has impressed me. Where would i be without my vintage gear.


 

 Tell you the truth, its vintage or go home for me. The Sansui intergrateds are very musical amps and ive heard that their nothing like the bigger G receivers.


----------



## diodiel

are you talking abt the sansui AU-XXX? i gotta find me one of those! and are the G receivers inferior to them or just different?
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Tell you the truth, its vintage or go home for me. The Sansui intergrateds are very musical amps and ive heard that their nothing like the bigger G receivers.


----------



## ardgedee

I still have to hear any of the most covetable top-line vintage receivers in fully-restored condition. I'm tempted to track down a high-powered receiver (like Skylab's SX-1980 _(*edit:* fixed)_) just for powering the HE-6 through the phone jack, even though it already gets more juice than it needs (and drinks it up happily) from the speaker taps of the receivers I've already got.
   
  With my current setup -- high-quality vintage amps, near-TOTL recent-model DAC being fed data from lossless audio files (using BitPerfect to improve the data output from my computer), I suspect I'm wringing all I can out of what I've got, and I'm tempted to stare down the rabbit hole of audiophile tweaks I'm currently skeptical about, like cables and power conditioners . _(Please let's not discuss that here. I'll ask a moderator to intervene if the conversation goes in that direction. Even if I agree with your post. Just... don't. If something interesting comes of my curiosity, I'll *post elsewhere*. If you have to get it off your chest, PM me instead.)_
   
  So far, the best receivers I have heard still fall short of modern high-end gear in the scale of the soundstaging, in the detail of quiet or complex passages, and the impact of sudden dynamic changes. In the best of circumstances, this gap in performance is small - vintage kit, even at collectors' prices, provides incredible value - but when you've reached the point where cost is no obstacle, you will still have to ante up.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sweden said:


> Which Pioneer receiver would the Technics SA-5560 be most like?
> Anyone tried this thing?


 



 Here is the big brother SA-5760, The TOTL of Technics 1976.

   
  I have other two small Technics receivers and integrate SU-8080. Technics sound OK with analytical sound signature, but they lack the airy, dynamic of Pioneer x50 line. I would say they are little brighter than x50 also. I wouldn't say they are not good, they just don't have their own signature(Or flat response is their signature). They may pair with warm headphone or speakers well.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> So far, the best receivers I have heard still fall short of modern high-end gear in the scale of the soundstaging, in the detail of quiet or complex passages, and the impact of sudden dynamic changes. In the best of circumstances, this gap in performance is small - vintage kit, even at collectors' prices, provides incredible value - but when you've reached the point where cost is no obstacle, you will still have to ante up.


 

 The problem is, you have to go the high end route to get there which means thousands. With vintage gear, it only takes hundreds. I have a couple of totl receivers and I still have a big smile on my face every time I turn one one. But still, I haven't listened to anything like the sx1980 or others in the "super" monster class. So they might get you right there with modern high end ss gear. But I think many will agree. With vintage gear, you can achieve with hundreds what it will take thousands to do with modern gear. And to go you one better, you can also achieve with tens what it would take hundreds from modern gear. I'm speaking ss of course. On the tube side, there's some very good values today with modern tube gear from budget to highfi. But vintage tube gear is still just as highly regarded, maybe more than ss when you look at what's out there between marantz, fisher, scott, dynaco etc. But on the other hand, you won't find a vintage tube amp in good working condition for 20.00 like you can with vintage ss gear.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


moodyrn said:


> But on the other hand, you won't find a vintage tube amp in good working condition for 20.00 like you can with vintage ss gear.


 

 (whistles innocently)
   
  But yes, I think you've mostly more clearly stated my point than I have. All I've spent on buying and refurbishing four vintage amps (two tubed integrateds, two SS receivers) has been less than the retail price of one respectable mid-fi headphone amp. There's no small amount of luck in scoring the vintage kit that I did, and that luck will be harder to come by as the years pass, and eventually 1970s kit will be old and increasing numbers of it harder to maintain. But much of our vintage gear _was kilobuck gear_ back in the day, if not literally (some of the monster receivers), then at least by accounting for the purchasing power of the dollar over time.
   
  At the Detroit meet in June, I was pleased by how close my equipment got to others' kilobuck gear. There was no confusing mine for theirs, and much of theirs was unambiguously better. I harbor no illusions about that. But, short of spending a small multiple of what I've spent so far to upgrade to a monster Sansui or Pioneer receiver, taking the step into high-end exotica and getting equipment specific to my interests and listening habits will require a large multiple of my current investment.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





diodiel said:


> are you talking abt the sansui AU-XXX? i gotta find me one of those! and are the G receivers inferior to them or just different?


 

 I  was, but i go vintage everything now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I still have to hear any of the most covetable top-line vintage receivers in fully-restored condition. I'm tempted to track down a high-powered receiver (like Skylab's SX-1950) just for powering the HE-6 through the phone jack, even though it already gets more juice than it needs (and drinks it up happily) from the speaker taps of the receivers I've already got.
> 
> With my current setup -- high-quality vintage amps, near-TOTL recent-model DAC being fed data from lossless audio files (using BitPerfect to improve the data output from my computer), I suspect I'm wringing all I can out of what I've got, and I'm tempted to stare down the rabbit hole of audiophile tweaks I'm currently skeptical about, like cables and power conditioners . _(Please let's not discuss that here. I'll ask a moderator to intervene if the conversation goes in that direction. Even if I agree with your post. Just... don't. If something interesting comes of my curiosity, I'll *post elsewhere*. If you have to get it off your chest, PM me instead.)_
> 
> So far, the best receivers I have heard still fall short of modern high-end gear in the scale of the soundstaging, in the detail of quiet or complex passages, and the impact of sudden dynamic changes. In the best of circumstances, this gap in performance is small - vintage kit, even at collectors' prices, provides incredible value - but when you've reached the point where cost is no obstacle, you will still have to ante up.


 
   
  They dont make 1950's.... i think you mean 1980.
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The problem is, you have to go the high end route to get there which means thousands. With vintage gear, it only takes hundreds. I have a couple of totl receivers and I still have a big smile on my face every time I turn one one. But still, I haven't listened to anything like the sx1980 or others in the "super" monster class. So they might get you right there with modern high end ss gear. But I think many will agree. With vintage gear, you can achieve with hundreds what it will take thousands to do with modern gear. And to go you one better, you can also achieve with tens what it would take hundreds from modern gear. I'm speaking ss of course. On the tube side, there's some very good values today with modern tube gear from budget to highfi. But vintage tube gear is still just as highly regarded, maybe more than ss when you look at what's out there between marantz, fisher, scott, dynaco etc. But on the other hand, you won't find a vintage tube amp in good working condition for 20.00 like you can with vintage ss gear.


 

 Its amazing in the sense that most gear is in the relm of $500, though the big Sansui's can be $1500+ and the 1980's the same.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote:


ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> (whistles innocently)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I do think you guys are all correct. Until today, the vintage stuff still has great performance price ratio. But as time goes by, the advantage of vintage stuff will decrease.
  It all about the value of now or future. If you want to enjoy now, vintage stuff is a good buy. If you want future proof, then modern hi-fi can be a good buy( I assume vintage stuff can't be restored and price won't increase due to people's nostalgic feeling and scarcity). Just my 2-cents.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> I do think you guys are all correct. Until today, the vintage stuff still has great performance price ratio. But as time goes by, the advantage of vintage stuff will decrease.
> It all about the value of now or future. If you want to enjoy now, vintage stuff is a good buy. If you want future proof, then modern hi-fi can be a good buy( I assume vintage stuff can't be restored and price won't increase due to people's nostalgic feeling and scarcity). Just my 2-cents.


 

 Go more in depth on this. Its like saying this 1936 Bugatti Type __ wont be valued anymore because no one wants it. Thanks not true, American will (IMO) never be what it once was, they quality will never be their, and as long at the slave Chinese workers are willing to work at $.50 an hour, that plastic is king, at least not in my world, than people are still going to look into vintage stuff (what we're buying currently) before they start looking at our generation of future vintage goods.


----------



## moodyrn

It think the value of high end vintage may decrease over time because in the future they will be harder to come by which will continually drive the prices up. I think eventually unknown gems from the likes of superscope, toshiba, panasonic etc will also increase in price. But again, maybe not. From my reading in audiogon, totl vintages have been going for hundreds for many years now. But one thing is for sure, right now is a very good time to invest in vintage gear. Most of the coveted pieces are still affordable and are always available on ebay. They're more scarce on craiglist, but still attainable. Where I live there's an area population of about 1.4 mil. ISo it's by no means no metropolis, but I still got both my kr9600 and sx1010 from craiglist for a combined 300.00. They both are in pristine condition. Just last week, I narrowly missed out on a sx1050 for 150.00 and sx780 for 50.00. So I'm sure in larger cities there's a much bigger selection to chose from. A lot of these pieces are still easy to find without doing a whole lot of searching. You just have to keep your ears open.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Go more in depth on this. Its like saying this 1936 Bugatti Type __ wont be valued anymore because no one wants it. Thanks not true, American will (IMO) never be what it once was, they quality will never be their, and as long at the slave Chinese workers are willing to work at $.50 an hour, that plastic is king, at least not in my world, than people are still going to look into vintage stuff (what we're buying currently) before they start looking at our generation of future vintage goods.


 

 Yes, You are totally right.
  I do think there is big difference of design concept between modern and vintage. Vintage stuff is designed to last forever, and most modern BPC are designed to fail outside warranty period. This is how companies make money by marketing useless feature.
  But there are elite companies like Krell, McIntosh and other non main stream who still keep produce high quality audio stuff for lasting forever.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> It think the value of high end vintage may decrease over time because in the future they will be harder to come by which will continually drive the prices up. I think eventually unknown gems from the likes of superscope, toshiba, panasonic etc will also increase in price. But again, maybe not. From my reading in audiogon, totl vintages have been going for hundreds for many years now. But one thing is for sure, right now is a very good time to invest in vintage gear. Most of the coveted pieces are still affordable and are always available on ebay. They're more scarce on craiglist, but still attainable. Where I live there's an area population of about 1.4 mil. ISo it's by no means no metropolis, but I still got both my kr9600 and sx1010 from craiglist for a combined 300.00. They both are in pristine condition. Just last week, I narrowly missed out on a sx1050 for 150.00 and sx780 for 50.00. So I'm sure in larger cities there's a much bigger selection to chose from. A lot of these pieces are still easy to find without doing a whole lot of searching. You just have to keep your ears open.


 

 Nice deal on the Kennie. I miss my KR-9000GX and i need a replacement. Even a big area like Detroit, they are still hard to come by, its almost better to put up a "Wanted" classified to get what you want.
  
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yes, You are totally right.
> I do think there is big difference of design concept between modern and vintage. Vintage stuff is designed to last forever, and most modern BPC are designed to fail outside warranty period. This is how companies make money by marketing useless feature.
> But there are elite companies like Krell, McIntosh and other non main stream who still keep produce high quality audio stuff for lasting forever.


 

 McIntosh... they will always be a great company, and i think even their stuff right now (besides their clock) will be very collectible in the next few decades, just as their vintage stuff is still very collectible.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


cifani090 said:


> Go more in depth on this. Its like saying this 1936 Bugatti Type __ wont be valued anymore because no one wants it. Thanks not true, American will (IMO) never be what it once was, they quality will never be their, and as long at the slave Chinese workers are willing to work at $.50 an hour, that plastic is king, at least not in my world, than people are still going to look into vintage stuff (what we're buying currently) before they start looking at our generation of future vintage goods.


 

 The truth lies between. Electronics have usually been bad investments in terms of cash value. The market value for my most collectible equipment is still significantly less than the original buyer paid for it.
   
  Any equipment bought new now is highly unlikely to be resellable for its original price. There are occasional exceptions, like the Sony R10 headphones, but that's so rare as to be notable.
   
  Equipment was generally more expensive back then, too. My Scott 222c was an entry level unit, priced at $150 in 1960 dollars. That is roughly $1,200 in 2011 dollars, in terms of buying power. $1,200 will get you a pretty nice brand-new integrated amp. Or a couple working Scott 222c units.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> The truth lies between. Electronics have usually been bad investments in terms of cash value. The market value for my most collectible equipment is still significantly less than the original buyer paid for it.
> 
> ...


 

 Thats true, even nowadays (not sure if it from the bad economy or what...) but i never buy anything new (with exceptions (clothing,etc)). Its kinda funny when people use the calculator to see the influx in price from back than to now. Buy dont you think McIntosh will be worth at least 1.5 of its original cost in 30-60 years?


----------



## Skylab

No doubt. Even something like the SX-1980, which commands top dollar today for a vintage receiver, has not held it's value well in dollars adjusted for inflation. You can buy an SX-1980 for roughly what it cost new in 1978-79 - but in adjusted dollars a new one in today's dollars would cost you over $8K. So if you bought one new back in the day, it hasn't held it's value well. And it has held value better than most vintage electronics.

But that is the VERY reason that these items are a good deal to buy today! You get performance above the amount you are spending in many cases.


----------



## moodyrn

X2. Especially when you look at what I paid for my gear. I know bargains like what I came by a few an far between. But even if you shell out the going rate for a totl receiver or amp, you would have to spend many times more on modern gear, not only to best it, but you would have to spend a great deal more just to equal it.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> X2. Especially when you look at what I paid for my gear. I know bargains like what I came by a few an far between. But even if you shell out the going rate for a totl receiver or amp, you would have to spend many times more on modern gear, not only to best it, but you would have to spend a great deal more just to equal it.


 

 :tonight ill be guying some L100's for $80-100: :shhh, no telling anyone:


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> :tonight ill be guying some L100's for $80-100: :shhh, no telling anyone:


 

 How could that be? Luxman L-100 was sold $450 on epay. How could that be?????????????????
  If you don't like it, I will pay $300 for it. Please keep my offer in mind!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> How could that be? Luxman L-100 was sold $450 on epay. How could that be?????????????????
> If you don't like it, I will pay $300 for it. Please keep my offer in mind!!


 

 :JBL L100's...:


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> :JBL L100's...:


 

 Wow, that's also a steal. Around $300 on epay.


----------



## bassvirtuoso

I love mine, the precursors to Skylab's Pioneer HPM-100 speakers. I need to try them through my new Harman Kardon HK 430...
   
  What amp are you going to run those with?
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> :JBL L100's...:


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bassvirtuoso said:


> I love mine, the precursors to Skylab's Pioneer HPM-100 speakers. I need to try them through my new Harman Kardon HK 430...
> 
> What amp are you going to run those with?


 

ioneer 1250:


----------



## Wharfrat

Wualta:  Thanks for the pics and the nice story behind these vintage headphones and amps.  I wasn't paying too much attention to the model numbers, thinking there was a family resemblance of sorts. Turns out the AT-706s look downright classy compared to the AT-7s...The 706s you posted was the headphone I saw at the meet.  Maybe someday the owner will show up again and I'll have myself a listen...


----------



## moodyrn

Cifani090 that's a sweet deal you found. Congrats on the score.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Cifani090 that's a sweet deal you found. Congrats on the score.


 

 I know, i talked to him and he said their scratched up probably 60% or so and one box is worse than the other and one of the woofers are cracked and he glued them, but he said if i tun my back i wont hear any difference. If i have a problem i could always have JBL Judy fix them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

JBL's are a dime a dozen.  I'm sure you could through a rock into a crowd and hit someone who has a pair to sell.   No use buying a beat  up pair.


----------



## WarriorAnt

there's a local store near me that has these advertised and that's just this week.
   
   
[size=larger][size=larger]_"Great Selection of Pre-Owned JBL Speakers "_[/size][/size]
JBL L15 Loudspeaker Pair
JBL L40 Loudspeaker Pair
JBL L80t  Loudspeaker Pair
JBL L100 Century Loudspeaker Pair w/Cartons
JBL L100 Century Loudspeaker Pair w/Original Receipt and Manual
JBL LE5-2 Midrange Pair


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> there's a local store near me that has these advertised and that's just this week.
> 
> 
> [size=larger][size=larger]_"Great Selection of Pre-Owned JBL Speakers "_[/size][/size]
> ...


 
   
  Lets Discuss on the vintage speakers forum, where this really belongs.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Lets Discuss on the vintage speakers forum, where this really belongs.


 

 ah yes! I forgot all about that thread.  Thanks for reminding me.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> ah yes! I forgot all about that thread.  Thanks for reminding me.


 

 Im waiting...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Im waiting...


 
  LOL!   I can't find the thread! I'm useless.  Better post a link.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> LOL!   I can't find the thread! I'm useless.  Better post a link.


 







Did you check the dots?


----------



## Manyak

Do I have to have an integrated/receiver, or can I post a component system? 
   

   
  The EQ, dynamic range expander, and reverb aren't actually hooked up in the signal path. They're just there for show (though they do work). The other two compoents are the Pioneer SPEC-1 Preamp and SPEC-4 Amp. The amp has been completely rebuilt and is actually better than original specs now, thanks to improved caps and resistors. Next, it's the preamp's turn. 
   
  The sound quality is actually _fanstastic_ with speakers (I use Marantz HD-880's); it's far better than anything modern at the same price, that's for sure. But unfortunately, there's something going on with the headphone jack that's holding that part back. Most likely the wires are a bit corroded.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Very Nice! And complete too!


----------



## ardgedee

Beautiful setup.
   
  As much as I like modern gear (and, hey, I do think a lot of it is fantastic), there's definitely something lacking in the status lights and visual effects.
   
  Status light design peaked some time in the late 70s. There was some great light-show stuff in the early 70s, like the O-scope displays that Marantz and Heathkit sold. But for the casual esthetic of "Oh yeah, here's a throbbing thing that implies something is happening," the late 70s/early 80s wins.
   
  Once LEDs came to town, everybody slapped in some variation on the same bar display, and that's nice for what it is, but, except for some occasional flourishes, there wasn't a whole lot of free-form inventiveness any more.
   
  My inner 13 year old remembers that Pioneer reverb unit's light show from visits to the electronics store, and thought it was awesome. He still wants one.


----------



## Skylab

Manyak that is a beautiful system. Very, very nice. That Spec stuff has a terrific reputation. I hope to hear some someday.


----------



## Manyak

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Beautiful setup.
> 
> As much as I like modern gear (and, hey, I do think a lot of it is fantastic), there's definitely something lacking in the status lights and visual effects.
> 
> ...


 


  Agreed. It's not just the lights either IMO - there's something about huge blocks of aluminum with tons of knobs and switches that just makes it look and feel like a serious piece of equipment...not just a box that you connect wires to with a million and a half meaningless (and sometimes even detrimental) features that you can't even remember the names of. I mean, can you even tell me offhand what MCACC stands for? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I do miss having a remote though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Manyak that is a beautiful system. Very, very nice. That Spec stuff has a terrific reputation. I hope to hear some someday.


 

  
  Thanks!
   
  It's not like, some super-amazing out of this world system, it's just _really_ good for what you pay. I'd say that it's about equal to components that cost $1000-$1500 each, but you're only paying a receiver's price.
   
  In fact, I've got a receiver in the same room that cost only ~$100 less than these components when it was new (Pioneer VSX-23TXH), and it doesn't sound anywhere near as good. The SPEC system more detailed and more 'full-bodied'. For example, you can actually hear the timbre of everything from bass drums to violins with the SPEC system, but you can't with the VSX.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I do want to add a note about driving the *HE-6 with the Marantz 2240*.  
   
  The 2240 headphone jack is not as powerful as Skylab's 2275 which he uses to drive his HE-6, and I've been driving my HE-6 most of the time with the HE-impedance adapter on the speaker outputs.  I've not tried the HE-6 directly from the speaker outputs without the adapter, like I've done with my 55 watt Yamaha.   With the Yamaha amp and no impedance adapter the HE-6 are a little more mids-centric and slightly less warm sounding.  I prefer the Marantz with adapter for the HE-6, with it's warmer but more open and spacious sound.
   
  With the Marantz volume at about 11 o'clock I get the same volume as with my Eddie Current ZDT at 3 o'clock, and the sound is very strong and transparent with both amps.  Just like with the HD-800, the 2240 shouldn't sound this good for such a budget piece of gear - it's not up to the level of my ZDT but it's not as far behind as you'd expect.  The ZDT is more refined and spacious sounding, with better micro-detail, but the Marantz can probably offer an extra 3-4 dB more headroom than the ZDT at high volumes.  I don't think I can get past about 1 o'clock without some distortion, which I expect is the amp/adapter combo and not the headphones, because the Yamaha without the adapter can go even louder (using a banana>XLR adapter made by HiFlight).
   
  I have not tried the HD-800 or HF-2 via the impedance adapter, because they already sound so good via the 2240 headphone jack.


----------



## cifani090

Here is an interesting article on vintage 1970 Pioneer receivers.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Wualta:  Thanks for the pics and the nice story behind these vintage headphones and amps. Turns out the AT-706s look downright classy compared to the AT-7s...The 706s you posted was the headphone I saw at the meet.  Maybe someday the owner will show up again and I'll have myself a listen...


 
  You're quite welcome. Old 'stats remind us of the struggle of the '70s to produce a decent-sounding headphone using whatever principle seemed to hold the most promise. I'm pretty sure the owner of the 706 you heard calls himself Dr. Strangelove.


----------



## mrarroyo

Larry, has your 2240 been re-capped? Has the bias and dc-offset been checked? I ask because there may be more performance to be extracted of your 2240. I have a 2238B and I use a pigtail straight from the speaker outs to drive a K1000, Stax Energizer, or the HE6. Just a wonderful sound.


----------



## diodiel

hi guys just wondering if i should go for adcom gfa-535 mk2 available now for 40$ or wait for an original gfa-535. ill ad it to my sx-626"preamp" as a power amp.. what u guys think?


----------



## mjs0008

Hi,

 long time reader first time poster, I finally finished reading through all the posts in this thread and must say, up until I came across it, I thought I was the only person using a vintage pioneer receiver (sx-939) as a dedicated daily headphone driver.  Using a laptop running strictly flac and other high end audio files through the receiver and my favorite flavor of cans for the month the sound is phenomenal.


----------



## livewire

Welcome, and right you are!
  I have the SX-1010 and I agree - simply phenomenal.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mjs0008 said:


> Hi,
> 
> long time reader first time poster, I finally finished reading through all the posts in this thread and must say, up until I came across it, I thought I was the only person using a vintage pioneer receiver (sx-939) as a dedicated daily headphone driver.  Using a laptop running strictly flac and other high end audio files through the receiver and my favorite flavor of cans for the month the sound is phenomenal.


 

 Welcome, vintage is my new world. I buy vintage everything


----------



## Graphicism

I'm thinking about getting a vintage receiver for my Sony DR-Z6 and possibly LCD-2/Magnepans further down the road. Is the Mirantz 2240 and similar variants simply the best one to get or are there others?
   
  I scoured ebay this evening and found a few really nice looking and cheap units...
   
  • Sony STR-3800
  • Sony STR-4800SD
  • SONY STR 6036A
  • Sony STR-6045
  • Sony STR-6055
  • Sansui 300
  • Sansui 350A
  • KENWOOD KR 2400
  • KENWOOD KR-5600
  • LAFAYETTE LR-200
  • ROTEL RX-152
  • YAMAHA CR-820
  • PIONEER SX-780
   
  Any good?


----------



## WarriorAnt

I own the YAMAHA CR-820.  Picked it up mint locally for $75.  Sounds nice


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> I'm thinking about getting a vintage receiver for my Sony DR-Z6 and possibly LCD-2/Magnepans further down the road. Is the Mirantz 2240 and similar variants simply the best one to get or are there others?
> 
> I scoured ebay this evening and found a few really nice looking and cheap units...
> 
> ...


 

 That Yamaha ive heard good things about, but so is the SX780 and the 5600.


----------



## Graphicism

Thank you. The YAMAHA CR-820 is $136 shipped, PIONEER SX-780 $170 shipped and a couple up for auction, KENWOOD KR-5600 for $100. I'm partial towards Sony to match my phones, are they no good or simply haven't heard much about them?
   
  Sony STR 3800 looks stunning:
   

   
  "Picks up stations noise between stations. - sold as is."
   
  Haha I don't know if they're serious.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> Thank you. The YAMAHA CR-820 is $136 shipped, PIONEER SX-780 $170 shipped and a couple up for auction, KENWOOD KR-5600 for $100. I'm partial towards Sony to match my phones, are they no good or simply haven't heard much about them?
> 
> Sony STR 3800 looks stunning:
> 
> ...


 

 Haha, i dont think he knows what he's talking about. The Sonys IMO dont have good resale value, the Pioneer you cant go wrong. And the'll definitely round out dem Beyer's.


----------



## Graphicism

I don't really care about the resale, they're cheap to begin with and if it does the job I'll keep it. Not really looking for something to handle the beyers but at 600 Ohm that's good to know. As I say I'd like something vintage for these, and I'm kinda on the fence about selling my setup and buying a LCD-2. I've been reading through this thread to see what people have, better to buy something I know will do the job.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> I don't really care about the resale, they're cheap to begin with and if it does the job I'll keep it. Not really looking for something to handle the beyers but at 600 Ohm that's good to know. As I say I'd like something vintage for these, and I'm kinda on the fence about selling my setup and buying a LCD-2. I've been reading through this thread to see what people have, better to buy something I know will do the job.


 

 Gotcha, any one of them will run them Sony's than. The Pioneer though is more reliable, and will run a more variety of things without coloration,etc. Id selling your setup for LCD-2!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Larry, has your 2240 been re-capped? Has the bias and dc-offset been checked? I ask because there may be more performance to be extracted of your 2240. I have a 2238B and I use a pigtail straight from the speaker outs to drive a K1000, Stax Energizer, or the HE6. Just a wonderful sound.


 

 Nope, this is a bone stock 2240 that I bought off Skylab a few months ago for a song.  I tried to get his 2275 but this was the only one he'd part with.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I do know that the 2240 speaker out with HE-impedance box sounds better than my 55-watt Yamaha without the impedance box (using a banana plug pigtail) - the 2240 is warmer, not as mids centric, and more spacious sounding.  The impedance box does absorb a bit of the power, so it's not quite as loud as my Yamaha, but it's still more power than I can handle.  Due to difficulty accessing the back of the Yamaha I can't easy swap adapters between the Yamaha and Marantz.
   
  I plan to get it refurbished one of these days, but want to find someone local.


----------



## treal512

My parents hired me to clean their home this weekend and as I was moving around some things I found my dad's old SX-650. He seems to be content with his current setup and pretty much said I could just have the Pioneer. I don't know how well it runs yet, but cosmetically it seems good.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> I'm thinking about getting a vintage receiver for my Sony DR-Z6 and possibly LCD-2/Magnepans further down the road. Is the Mirantz 2240 and similar variants simply the best one to get or are there others?
> 
> I scoured ebay this evening and found a few really nice looking and cheap units...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Of that list I'd be most tempted by the SX-780 myself. There's a Harman Kardon 330C for $75 that I'd be tempted by if I was in the US. The 330's aren't twin powered like the earlier 630 and 930's and the later 430 and 730's but still said to be very nice little receivers.


----------



## Skylab

I have a Sony STR-7800, which is the big brother of the 4800. It's decent, but not in the league sonically of any of my other vintage receivers. It has been relegated to the basement workout room driving some Goodwill-bought AR-3's. 

The Yamaha has a nice reputation but from what I have read on AudioKarma has some unobtainable parts in the event it needed repair. 

And of course by now it will be clear to many that I really dig the Pioneer sound


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> My parents hired me to clean their home this weekend and as I was moving around some things I found my dad's old SX-650. He seems to be content with his current setup and pretty much said I could just have the Pioneer. I don't know how well it runs yet, but cosmetically it seems good.


 

 Congrats, you cant go bad, and you definitely know how the owner treated the receiver. First id get a screwdriver and take off the top to see if their is any dust,etc; and blow that out. Dont want to power it on, and you blow something.
   
  I read somewhere a few days ago that some guy on craigslist was asking $300 for a Sansui G-33000. He got so many calls, that he bumped his price to $3000


----------



## Sweden

​ _Anyone here tried this beauty, or any other Marantz 42xx?_​ _



_​ _Also the beautiful 1070_​ __​  ​  ​


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Yamaha has a nice reputation but from what I have read on AudioKarma has some unobtainable parts in the event it needed repair.


 

 The Yamaha CR 820 I have works great but I noticed a guy on ebay selling parts from his Yamaha CR 820 for $10 a part.  Any part $10.  Local pick up only.         I added up all the parts on mine and looks like I could make a bundle, but alas I'm not a cannibal...... not yet anyway........every man has his price though....


----------



## WarriorAnt

Anyone know what the integrated version of the Pioneer SX 1250 or SX 1980 is?   I more into the integrated since I don't use FM anymore.


----------



## mythless

TOTL is the SA-9900 for pioneer integrated amplifier.


----------



## singh

SA-9900 ($750.00)was TOTL pioneer integrated during SX-1250.
  and SA-9800 ($750.00) was TOTL pioneer integrated during SX-1980
  both (both integrated) hardly compare in the Power output though ( to the receivers ) , but some on audiokarma say the sound is better.
   
  But if you want the TOTL pioneer integrated , the A-27 ($1250.00), read some great stuff about it.
   
  Am soon getting the SA-9800 .


----------



## Graphicism

Won an auction for a Pioneer SX 525 that I should pick up tomorrow.
   

   
  Not the most powerful at 17 watts per channel but should be fine for my use.
   
  I'll post pics and impressions when I get it home.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## Meewoo

@WarriorAnt,
   
  According AK, the best sound Pionny integrate in 70's is SA-9100. It's TOTL of in-amp as same era of SX-1010.
  If you are really pursuing a Pionny integrate amp, don't go for A-27. Instead, you should go for Pionny A-90, check http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91531
  It has the sound of sx-1250 but with more controlled, punchy bass and thrill high. The bass is almost as good as Sui.
  I listened A-90 once and am keeping looking for one. It's also very rare, his little bro A-80 is a little common but can't find easily also.
   
  The Yammy CR-x20 and CR-x00 line don't have ub%$3 (what ever the word is), so the parts are a little easier to find. But still, some tran-sisters and resisters are not available now.
  Also, Pionny -x80 line and Kenwood x600 line have the ub%$3.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## Meewoo

Happy to share!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Indeed, Sui is Sansui! And the price list by singh is msrp.


----------



## singh

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Are those current prices?


 
  No that's the price of the amp when they were launched.
   
   
  yeah a-90 is good, but thats the view of just 1 person , his a-27 might have been dirty (or unserviced )
   
  am saying they both were made around the same time and a27 retailed for $20  more than A-90 did.
   
  a-27 - 120  W RMS ( 30Ws in class A)
  a-90 - 200 W RMS


----------



## mythless

Those A series are pretty rare and hard to find.  And, if people do their research before they sell they might be shocked on the asking prices of those amps.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Those A series are pretty rare and hard to find.  And, if people do their research before they sell they might be shocked on the asking prices of those amps.


 

 What does the A-90 go for nowadays? Its pretty nice, except the 1970 knobs.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





singh said:


> yeah a-90 is good, but thats the view of just 1 person , his a-27 might have been dirty (or unserviced )
> 
> am saying they both were made around the same time and a27 retailed for $20  more than A-90 did.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't have chance to audit A-27, but I would say A-90 is really good. When I audited a-90, I knew nothing about this beast, I thought it was a crappy 90's stuff. I was shocked by how nice it sounds. Though I didn't confess to the owner I love it. After I got home, I googled it and I realized what a beast it is. What I want to say is that I didn't have any mental bias towards a-90 when I listened it. (Or I had objection to the A-90)
  BTW, did Denon produce any audio component in 70's? Anyone has knowledge of Denon in early years? Thanks!


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## singh

2 months before sa-9100 were like 300-500, i donno what happened .
   
  the SA-9XXX has were the top of the line ..  9500 < 9100 < 9500 II < 9900 < 9800 , from what i have read.
   
  and yeah i agree A90 is a beast , better than SA-9XXX, am just arguing that A-27 might be better. ( why else the difference in the price )


----------



## Skylab

Well if current selling prices are any indication, the SA-9100 sells for much more than the 9500 II. But I have not followed the integrateds much. I just dig the vintage receivers too much  And I like my Fisher tube integrated, too...


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Wow the Pioneer SA 9100's have asking prices of $900+ on ebay.   I'm going to have to be diligent for sure...


 


  Wow!!  I paid $112 for my SA 9100 a few years ago.  Was in mint condition cosmetically and working electronically.  Have spent $265 having is restored (partial recap, transistor or two, lamps, etc.)


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well if current selling prices are any indication, the SA-9100 sells for much more than the 9500 II. But I have not followed the integrateds much. I just dig the vintage receivers too much
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Id have to agree, unless its an integrated with meters


----------



## Skylab

I have the Fisher KX-100. It uses 7868 output tubes and 12AX7 input tubes. Sounds great with LCD-2's


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Was it Doobooloo's Fisher?  That one looked mint.
> 
> 
> There is a Fisher X-1000 on the bay right now with a bid of $1225 and three days to go...
> ...


 

 No, i have had it a while.  But it is pretty much mint.  It was recapped, and I had a nice case made for it.  Whole thing cost me less than $600 but I got a very good deal.
   
  There are a lot of variants of the 100, yes.  Moodryn knows more about the different ones than I do.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Is there a web site that distinguishes the FIsher 100's?   there seems to be many variants of the 100's


 

  
  Yeah, it's called Google.
   
  Or try this:  http://fisherdoctor.com/fisher.html
   
  Ha! But they dont show skylab's trap door KX-100.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *livewire* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Or try this:  http://fisherdoctor.com/fisher.html


 

  "_NOTICE: This domain name expired on 09/03/2011 and is pending renewal or deletion._"
   
  Wow bad timing.


----------



## Skylab

It was odd that the KX-100 wasn't on there. The K stood for kit, but still mine looked a little different from all of those that were pictured:





Note that the wood case is not original.


----------



## WarriorAnt

That's a nice looking case.  Looks excellent?  where was it made?   Here?  http://mcintoshcabinets.com/pages/fisher.htm


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## Skylab

http://mcintoshcabinets.com/

They do SUPER nice work, and you pay for it.


----------



## mythless

Remember, if you can't afford those American made tube amplifiers/receivers, Japanese made ones are still reasonable and sound just as good.  Grab some if you can before they sky rocket in price too.  Funny how certain trends are.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Or try this:  http://fisherdoctor.com/fisher.html
> 
> Ha! But they dont show skylab's trap door KX-100.


 
   
  Fortunately it looks like archive.org managed to get a complete snapshot before the site died: http://web.archive.org/web/20110723225011/http://fisherdoctor.com/
   
  And yeah, I don't see Skylab's there, but it's clearly not a complete record of Fisher's tube-era gear; there are a few items from this Fisher catalog scan that fisherdoctor doesn't have -- mostly FM tuners. I'd bet you could get a more complete accounting of Fisher hardware by polling Audiogon.
   
  Incidentally, it looks like the KX-100 is feature-identical to the X-100-B, but not the other (K)X-100s.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


mythless said:


> Remember, if you can't afford those American made tube amplifiers/receivers, Japanese made ones are still reasonable and sound just as good.  Grab some if you can before they sky rocket in price too.  Funny how certain trends are.


 

 All of my tubed hi-fi gear is American, all yard/garage/rummage sale finds.
   
  It may depend on where in the country you're looking, the age and demographics of the neighborhood. I've never seen tube-era Japanese hi-fi equipment in person, but it might be more common in other parts of the US.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Incidentally, it looks like the KX-100 is feature-identical to the X-100-B, but not the other (K)X-100s.


 

 That's right, I think I recall Moodryn saying the same thing.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> All of my tubed hi-fi gear is American, all yard/garage/rummage sale finds.
> 
> It may depend on where in the country you're looking, the age and demographics of the neighborhood. I've never seen tube-era Japanese hi-fi equipment in person, but it might be more common in other parts of the US.


 

 What gear do you have? Id like to get myself a good piece of tube gear.
   
  @Skylab, how do vintage tube receiver's perform with headphones?


----------



## Skylab

Never owned a vintage tube receiver. The Fisher is great from it's headphone out, as long as one factors in that it is a very tubey sounding amp - very nice sounding indeed, but definitely on the romantic side.


----------



## ardgedee

Setting up is far from complete, but I finally have a listening station for the first time since moving house.
   
  To answer cifani090's question:
   

   
  Top: Headphone boxes and some bookshelf speakers that will have to wait a couple weeks before they can be set up.
   
  Adcom SLC505 in-line controller, Elekit TU-882R/AS, Cityspot T-amp, Violectric HPA-100 (Hidden by the Adcom: Teac V-550X cassette deck).
   
  Harmon-Kardon HK630, HiFiMan HE-6 (Hidden by the phones: Realistic VU meter).
   
  Cary XCiter DAC, (head-fier built) Corda Cross-1 crossfeed box, Heathkit AR-1500.
   
  Scott 222c tubed integrated, Fisher X-202-B tubed integrated.
   
  Bottom: Realistic TM-1000 tuner, Harmon-Kardon Citation IV preamp.
   
  This has gotten excessive and I ought to be selling off the stuff I haven't been using. Probable candidates are the second shelf, at least one of the tubed amps, and the bottom shelf. I have to check and listen to everything first, to ensure they survived the move intact.
   
  Currently only the DAC and solid state receivers are plugged in. The crossfeed box and Adcom are passive. The thing that looks like a surge suppressor over the headphones is a surge suppressor over the VU meter behind the headphones.
   
  The Elekit, cross box and Heathkit have stickynote labels for their buttons and switches. The cross box was unlabeled, the Elekit's labels are inconveniently placed and hard to read, and the Heathkit's label fell off long before I acquired it. In case you were wondering.
   
  The Scott has no feet, which is how I found it. The Fisher amp has all its jewels (unusual but fortunate - however, it's missing metallic caps for some of the knobs). The Fisher not only has feet, a previous owner elevated it another half inch by stacking layers of masonite between the chassis and the feet. Despite their mutt-and-jeff appearance, The Fisher's actually only a half-inch taller than the Scott. Back in the days when it was common to treat these things as permanent fixtures, it's how homeowners dealt with trying to make the equipment fit the holes they'd cut in the walls. (This is also why cabinets are somewhat rare: Some people eschewed the cabinets to save money, some were DIYing it.)
   
  Incidentally, I've never heard Sextetts sound as good as through The Fisher amp. I'm not overly in love with tube warmth, and Sextetts could never be described as cold-sounding, but for whatever reason these two pieces complement each other perfectly.


----------



## cifani090

^^^ Wow, nice "portable" setup!


----------



## Uri Cohen

Have anyone have experiences using the tube Fishers, Marantzs, Scotts with LCD-2s or Grados?  
   
  Vintage SS gear I can get often but I might in the future put in good money for a good tube receiver.  I'm just scared that since it's tube it may not give the cans enough drive to make them sing.


----------



## livewire

*@ardgedee,* I've said it before and you prolly know that the Fisher knobs / caps are on ebay regularly. I see them all of the time.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





hyperduel said:


> Have anyone have experiences using the tube Fishers, Marantzs, Scotts with LCD-2s or Grados?
> 
> Vintage SS gear I can get often but I might in the future put in good money for a good tube receiver.  I'm just scared that since it's tube it may not give the cans enough drive to make them sing.


 


 FWIW, I have a tubed 1963 vintage 32wpc Sansui 1000 receiver that i use with my Grados. Sounds lovely with power to spare.


----------



## sluker

Anyone have experience with the Sansui 8080DB? There is one available locally for 350. Also an SX1080 but the guy wants 500, seems a bit steep.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Anyone have experience with the Sansui 8080DB? There is one available locally for 350. Also an SX1080 but the guy wants 500, seems a bit steep.


 

 Wow that Pioneer IMO is very high, the 8080DB is a nice unit at $300, even better under that


----------



## singh

if you dont need a tuner ( that comes built in the receiver )  , i would suggest integrated.
   
  i compared my Au-999 with 8080 DB , au-999 came on top .  ( though i liked the tonality of the 8080 DB  , anyone knows the integrated that sounds like 8080 DB? )


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





singh said:


> if you dont need a tuner ( that comes built in the receiver )  , i would suggest integrated.
> 
> i compared my Au-999 with 8080 DB , au-999 came on top .  ( though i liked the tonality of the 8080 DB  , anyone knows the integrated that sounds like 8080 DB? )


 

 I love my AU-999 very lush, and fun amp, not as quite as musical as a Marantz, but more refined.


----------



## Wharfrat

Once you get into vintage receivers and their second cousins, it becomes hard to follow all the wayward children borne thereof....they even start having human-sounding names (to wit: Pionny, Sui, and Fisher, to name a few).  So I need to bring in a new name to the crowd....
   
  on Audiogon, there is advertised as "the Best Sounding Headphone Amp in the World?"  (yes, its posed as a question, the devil....)...specifically, a McIntosh C-33 that is going outta the door for the asking price of $1500 clams.
    As you all know, there is a ton of McIntosh gear out there and it holds its resale value for precisely the same reason the solid-state '70s receivers and integrateds do: they are very well built and have a serious following because they sound very good.
   
  Which brings to mind this: anybody have an opinion on McIntosh gear being used as headphone amps?  Now, here goes: whats it with a Preamp having a great headphone out....(which is what the C-33 is...a preamp!).   Where does it get that kind of power?


----------



## wualta

I propose a flurry of babytalk names for the major '70s Japanese brands: Pi-Pi for Pioneer, Yama-Llama for Yamaha, Mitsy-Bishy for Mitsubishi, Sui Cheeks for Sansui...
   
  Preamps with gutsy power supplies can be very good at headphone amplification. What they don't normally have is the voltage swing to drive an inefficient high-impedance headphone to high SPL. But don't buy a spendy preamp to use primarily as a headphone amp-- there are more cost-effective means to that end. Buy it if you need a really good, versatile preamp (with, one hopes, a commensurately good phono stage) for your power amp.


----------



## diodiel

I just got onkyo tx866 yesterday along with a sony ps-t22 tt. Im pairing them with my sx626 and rta 8ts. So far soo good!

What do you guys think about onkyo tx8xx series?


----------



## elnero

The Pioneer SX-650 is in the house. Overall condition is about what I expected, a couple of minor scratches in the veneer and few spots that seem like they might need a touch of glue. Looking through the metal grill on the top I can see it's in need of a major cleaning inside and the controls seem like they could use some deox-it. The front panel and glass are in very good condition so overall very good for the price I paid and  with a little care I think it could be brought round to be a very nice piece.
   
  I've only had a few minutes with it but my first impression is it's drier than the HK 730, it doesn't quite capture the natural tone and flow that's had the 730 captivating me since I got it. It's certainly nice though,it seems a bit more precise with a touch livelier and more detailed bass. There could be a battle brewing, the nice thing is these were both cheap enough that I wouldn't have a problem keeping both provided I find a bit better place to set them both up.


----------



## tink97

Hey everyone, I got a question.  How do the fisher receivers sound with headphones like the LCD-2 or he 500?  If anyone listens to those receivers I would appreciate any input.  Thanks all
   
  tink97


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Hey everyone, I got a question.  How do the fisher receivers sound with headphones like the LCD-2 or he 500?  If anyone listens to those receivers I would appreciate any input.  Thanks all
> 
> tink97


 


  Not quite Fisher but... this summer I ran the LCD-2 v1 & HE-500 on the SX-650 and they came alive with 'drive'. The HE-500 especially, since I had initially used it with a tube amp. I would think the Fisher would give them the push they need...


----------



## elnero

Not sure if anyone is interested but this SX-1050 seems like a reasonably good deal. There's no international shipping which is good because I'd be tempted myself.


----------



## log0

Quote: 





tink97 said:


> Hey everyone, I got a question.  How do the fisher receivers sound with headphones like the LCD-2 or he 500?  If anyone listens to those receivers I would appreciate any input.  Thanks all
> 
> tink97


 


  I believe Skylab said he enjoyed the pairing, I would search through the thread and find his posts to read some impressions.


----------



## Skylab

My comments were about the Fisher KX-100 tube integrated.


----------



## tink97

Yep heh I had read this thread a few times and saw skylab's post about the integrated, but I must have missed them on the receiver ones.  All good thanks everyone
   
  tink97


----------



## sluker

I finally got around to opening up the SX1250, but it didn't need too much cleaning other than blowing the dust off and applying some deoxit.
  I love this amp (especially since it seems I got a killer deal).


----------



## Skylab

Wow looks REALLY nice!  Congrats slurker!


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I finally got around to opening up the SX1250, but it didn't need too much cleaning other than blowing the dust off and applying some deoxit.
> I love this amp (especially since it seems I got a killer deal).


 

 Pretty nice, what was your *steal *price? I need to get some can air and get some of the crumbs out of the front of the unit that i can see. Very annoying. I found a deal on a 1250 for a $100, that needs some work (not sure how much for an audio guy to fix it) and ill sell it.


----------



## sluker

I got it for $300
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Pretty nice, what was your *steal *price? I need to get some can air and get some of the crumbs out of the front of the unit that i can see. Very annoying. I found a deal on a 1250 for a $100, that needs some work (not sure how much for an audio guy to fix it) and ill sell it.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I got it for $300


 

 Not bad i paid $450 for mine, i wonder if i got 2 if i could run them as mono?


----------



## Skylab

$300 for an SX-1250 in good condition is an outstanding price. Nice work. 

The SX-1250 seems to have a very wide varierty in pricing. I've seen near mint but not restored/serviced units sell for as much as $800, but for as little as $400...and the was recently one that had been completely recapped and restored that was stone mint that went for almost $1,500.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats. A sx1250 in that condition for 300.00 is highway robbery!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

$300!  You probably steal candy from babies too!


----------



## ardgedee

I hope that at least he gives them $300 for the candy.


----------



## sluker

I felt bad.... for a minute or two. It belonged to the guys girlfriend's grandfather, they were moving and did not want to lug it with them, I did them a favor really (or at least that is what I keep telling myself)


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I felt bad.... for a minute or two. It belonged to the guys girlfriend's grandfather, they were moving and did not want to lug it with them, I did them a favor really (or at least that is what I keep telling myself)


 


  Great price   My experience was similar, guy didn't want it because of the size, so I felt I was doing his favor to a degree...
   
  Now what are you going to do with it?  I still haven't hooked up my SX-5590 to anything yet.  Need to move things around my rack, but I really don't have any speaker worthy of it besides my AR Classic model 18 but that's hooked up to the Mitsu-stack.


----------



## sluker

Needless to say, it has been getting good use.
  I have had it for over three months and since day one it has been driving my B&W CM1's and my LCD-2's as well as doing a good job with the HE-5LE's (with some bass and treble adjustment). I feed it lossless files through my Harmon Kardon HD990's DAC  and ocasionaly use it to listen to the radio in the morning or late at night.


----------



## Graphicism

Purchased a few vintage receivers this week, the first to arrive was this Sony STR-2800.
   
  Opened her up before I tried power, vacuumed out all the dust and dead bugs, cleaned the inside of the glass and closed her up. Powered up and everything's working great, all the lights are on and buttons function as they should. Haven't got around to connecting my speakers but the headphone out is a little noisy, there is a constant hum that grows with volume. This same noise volume is found in both my 30Ohm cans and 600Ohm, so it isn't a noise floor issue as far as I know. The amp distorts at volume with my 600Ohm DT880s but sounds fantastic with my lower impedance cans like my 1978 110Ohm Sony DR-Z6. I'll give the front plate a clean over the weekend and see if I can solve the noise issue, any tips on what to look for would be appreciated.
   

   
   
  SONY RCV, STR-2800
  Manufacture Years: 1977 - 1982
  Power: 20wpc
  MSRP: $240.00


----------



## BmWr75

Probably some RF interference from the cat.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Probably some RF interference from the cat.


 

 LOL there's a thought.. she likes the heat the unit gives off, I'm going to have to find another home for her.
   
  Edit: The receiver, not the cat.


----------



## moodyrn

graphicism said:


> Purchased a few vintage receivers this week, the first to arrive was this Sony STR-2800.
> 
> Opened her up before I tried power, vacuumed out all the dust and dead bugs, cleaned the inside of the glass and closed her up. Powered up and everything's working great, all the lights are on and buttons function as they should. Haven't got around to connecting my speakers but the headphone out is a little noisy, there is a constant hum that grows with volume. This same noise volume is found in both my 30Ohm cans and 600Ohm, so it isn't a noise floor issue as far as I know. The amp distorts at volume with my 600Ohm DT880s but sounds fantastic with my lower impedance cans like my 1978 110Ohm Sony DR-Z6. I'll give the front plate a clean over the weekend and see if I can solve the noise issue, any tips on what to look for would be appreciated.
> 
> ...





Sorry to sound like a downer, but, I have that receiver. My father in law bought it new back in 78. I never mention it because it's not representative of the good side of vintage receivers. There's no way around the noise issue and it doesnt even sound as good as modern budget receivers. My marantz rebranded superscope even sounds better. But on the plus side, it does sound powerful for 20wpc. So like others in it's day, the power ratings are conservatively rated.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Sorry to sound like a downer, but, I have that receiver. My father in law bought it new back in 78. I never mention it because it's not representative of the good side of vintage receivers. There's no way around the noise issue and it doesnt even sound as good as modern budget receivers. My marantz rebranded superscope even sounds better. But on the plus side, it does sound powerful for 20wpc. So like others in it's day, the power ratings are conservatively rated.


 

 I know it's a BOTL receiver however there were some good things said about it on Audiokarma. I would be surprised if Sony released a receiver with a hum, sounds like we both have the same problem. I adjusted the bias adjustment slightly tonight which turned down the output level, being paranoid I screwed it all back up before I powered her on but I'll have another tinker with it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> LOL there's a thought.. she likes the heat the unit gives off, I'm going to have to find another home for her.
> 
> Edit: The receiver, not the cat.


 
  LOL, my cat loves my receiver or amp too. But he is clever enough not to touch my tubes. In the summer, I always worry about my receiver not having enough venting because of my cat. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I think you may eliminate the hum by de-oxiding. I encountered this issue on two receiver, cleaning the phone port does the trick.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





sluker said:


> I got it for $300


 


  $300? On what day?!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Since finding this thread earlier this summer, I keep forgetting to check Goodwill stores each Mon/Tue... wanna SX - 1250/80 badly!!!


----------



## sluker

I got it on CL, can't remember what day though.


----------



## RexAeterna

bmwr75 said:


> Probably some RF interference from the cat.




everyone knows cats are perfect antennas.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> $300? On what day?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  That's not a torture.
  I missed the following good stuff within one hour range after they were posted on CL.
  Free Sansui 8080 with cut off power cord
  Black Marantz 2285b $60
  Sansui G-8700db $65
  ADS L-1230 speaker $40
  Klipsch Hersey II $50
  Pioneer SX-3900 $100
  Pioneer SX-1250 $200
  That's *torture*. If I could be a little quick, I might get one of them.
   
  But on the other side, I got Luxman L-85v for $100! Cheers!!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## treal512

These vintage beasts are curious little (or big I guess I should say) things. Very recently, with my HK730, I started hearing a slight audible distortion in the left channel when the bass impact would reach a certain frequency range. It doesn't happen on all songs, but when it starts cranking (like with large drums), it's definitely there. I messaged the original owner who was an "authorized HK technician" and his first bit of advice remedied the problem. I simply pressed in and out all of the buttons on the device multiple times and it disappeared?? I don't know how that works, but the LCD-2 is singing again.
   
  Now I just need to take some DeOxit to this crackly SX-650. Am I correct in assuming the HK730 will be warmer and the SX-650 more airy neutral?
   

   
  Here is a pic to liven up the page


----------



## elnero

treal512, it looks like you and I have the same 2 amps and the LCD-2's as well. Now I need one of those shelf units. 
   
  How do you like the 650 compared to the 730?


----------



## treal512

Haha, that's interesting how we have the same equipment. Is your LCD-2 a r1 or r2? The desk is Z-Line Nero, btw. It could of had more quality to it, but for the price it's nice. As with glass though, it gets dusty fast and the cable management is unavoidable for the most part.
   
  730 vs 650, I don't know. I just recently got this 650 from my dad's house. It was hiding in the corner of his study and I rescued it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 along with my grandfather's vintage army cot. I tried taking a listen to it yesterday and it absolutely needs a DeOxit bath. I had it on for maybe 10 seconds before turning it off. Just too much static to comment on the sound. How would you compare them? I'd love to know!


----------



## treal512

A Westone 4 user as well? Haha, you've got good taste, sir.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## singh

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Do I have this list right in terms of the best on top and then decreasing in goodness as the list descends.
> 
> Pioneer.
> 9800  Best?
> ...


 

 you for got the a-27 and a-90
   
  its like :
  1. A-27
  1. A-90 ( matter of preferance ) 
  3. SA-9800 ( yeah am sure 9800 is the best of 9xxx)
  4. SA-9900
  5. SA-9100
  5. SA-9500 II
  6. SA-9500
   
  All these were top of the line amps in their time ...so one may say that sa-8800 ( brother of 9800 )  is better than SA9100, if he prefers the SA-9800 sound


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Haha, that's interesting how we have the same equipment. Is your LCD-2 a r1 or r2? The desk is Z-Line Nero, btw. It could of had more quality to it, but for the price it's nice. As with glass though, it gets dusty fast and the cable management is unavoidable for the most part.
> 
> 730 vs 650, I don't know. I just recently got this 650 from my dad's house. It was hiding in the corner of his study and I rescued it
> 
> ...


 
   
  Heh, I was actually referring to the shelf you have the receivers on, If I'm going to have more than one I'm going to need something to go beside my desk. 
   
  My LCD-2's are Rev.1 from around February of this year so they have the new pads and newest cable that came with the Rev.1. I broke down last weekend and ordered a pair of Rev.2's to compare, hopefully I'll have them in the next week or two.
   
  The 730 vs 650 is an interesting comparison. I've only had the 650 for a few days and like yours it needs a bit of DeOxit. It does play though so I've had a chance to compare briefly. My thoughts haven't changed too much from my earlier post, the 650 is drier, a bit faster transient response but also quicker on the decay so it loses a sense of being there that the HK captures. The 730 by contrast has a tonally richer sound that I find sounds more natural and engaging. Although I wouldn't say the 650 is bright or aggressive it had me on edge, when I'd switch back to the 730 I found myself just relaxing and becoming more involved with the music. After a couple of days I found myself not even bothering to turn the 650 on and just going straight to the 730. I guess that's saying something there.
   
  I'll probably get the 650 cleaned up as best I can and compare again. It's not that I dislike the 650, I quite liked it actually, I'd say it's the second best amp I've heard with the LCD-2's (mind you I haven't heard a whole lot with the LCD-2's) and I could see where someone else would favor the 650 over the 730 but for my preferences the 730 sounds absolutely wonderful with the LCD-2's.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> That's not a torture.
> I missed the following good stuff within one hour range after they were posted on CL.
> Free Sansui 8080 with cut off power cord
> Black Marantz 2285b $60
> ...


 

 That would he a hell of a score, $400 Heresy's, $600 Marantz,etc. Anyone in Flordia? Their is a $100 1250 that needs some work.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> That's not a torture.
> I missed the following good stuff within one hour range after they were posted on CL.
> Free Sansui 8080 with cut off power cord
> Black Marantz 2285b $60
> ...


 


  Those ADS would probably be the best speaker of the bunch.


  Quote: 





singh said:


> you for got the a-27 and a-90
> 
> its like :
> 1. A-27
> ...


 

 Only way to know which one you like the best is to listen to them all in the same exact setup.  If not, it's useless to compare.


----------



## singh

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Those ADS would probably be the best speaker of the bunch.
> 
> 
> 
> Only way to know which one you like the best is to listen to them all in the same exact setup.  If not, it's useless to compare.


 
  True , but that was from what i have gathered by reading ...from people on AK.

 i gave a listen to SA-9800 its very neutral and resolving,
  But as its said the Pioneer + HE6 synergy is not that good, am still confused to pull the plug on them. 

 This sunday am going to a guy who owns 1980, 1280, Technics se-a200( power ), G22000, ( and some more :O)
  can only compare then .


----------



## paultel 2009

Quote: 





elnero said:


> My LCD-2's are Rev.1 from around February of this year so they have the new pads and newest cable that came with the Rev.1. I broke down last weekend and ordered a pair of Rev.2's to compare, hopefully I'll have them in the next week or two.


 

 I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the Rev.2's. I have a feeling that you may find them to be an even better match for the 730 than the Rev.1's. (Also, totally agree with your observations about the HK vs SX sound sigs.)


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *elnero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Heh, I was actually referring to the shelf you have the receivers on, If I'm going to have more than one I'm going to need something to go beside my desk.
> 
> ...


 

 Ahh yea, unfortunately the shelf is a part of the desk.
   
  How can you tell if you have the newer pads, etc? I bought my LCD-2 used is why I ask. Can't wait to see how you like the Rev2 
   
  Would you say the 650 compliments the HK730 (Rock vs. Jazz) or that the HK730 may be a notch above the 650 in terms of musicality?
   
  Speaking of cleaning, I need to order myself a bottle of this stuff! Thanks for your impressions, elnero.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Ahh yea, unfortunately the shelf is a part of the desk.
> 
> How can you tell if you have the newer pads, etc? I bought my LCD-2 used is why I ask. Can't wait to see how you like the Rev2
> 
> ...


 



 If I remember correctly the newer pads came before the newer cable so having the newer cable means newer pads. I could be wrong on that, it may just be that people were talking about the newer pads when I got mine.
   
  I guess the 650 could compliment the 730 although for my preferences I feel the HK is a notch above the Pioneer. Depending on what I get over the next while (if anything) I may keep the two but I'm tempted to try other things as well. Speaking of which, has anyone tried a Sansui 771 with the LCD-2's?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I guess the 650 could compliment the 730 although for my preferences I feel the HK is a notch above the Pioneer. Depending on what I get over the next while (if anything) I may keep the two but I'm tempted to try other things as well. Speaking of which, has anyone tried a Sansui 771 with the LCD-2's?


 
  If you like 730 and want to try another brand, I would suggest vintage Rotel. Rotel is a little smoother than HK, but a less punchy than HK or less authoritative on bass.  To me is more enjoyable. They share almost same tone.
  Sansui 771 will be a little warmer than HK and Rotel, maybe later Sui like G, AU-x17 and AU-x19 suite you better since they are little brighter than earlier Sui.
  If you feel HK  & LCD-2 combo are a little warm, then you can try Yammy. I don't have LCD-2, all my opinion are base my headphones and speakers.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> If you like 730 and want to try another brand, I would suggest vintage Rotel. Rotel is a little smoother than HK, but a less punchy than HK or less authoritative on bass.  To me is more enjoyable. They share almost same tone.
> Sansui 771 will be a little warmer than HK and Rotel, maybe later Sui like G, AU-x17 and AU-x19 suite you better since they are little brighter than earlier Sui.
> If you feel HK  & LCD-2 combo are a little warm, then you can try Yammy. I don't have LCD-2, all my opinion are base my headphones and speakers.


 

 I'm not sure I'd like something with less punchy and less authoritative base. Overall I'm pretty happy with the HK 730, if anything I wouldn't mind possibly a bit more on top and a little tighter bass.
   
  I've found the Sansui stuff intriguing but I can't seem to make much sense of their lineup so I'm really not sure which would be the best to try for my preferences and budget. Initially I wouldn't want to spend much on one and in the long run I'm not sure if I'll bother right now, I have a line on an HK 930 that I'm debating picking up to compare to the 730, if I buy that I'll have to be done for awhile.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I'm not sure I'd like something with less punchy and less authoritative base. Overall I'm pretty happy with the HK 730, if anything I wouldn't mind possibly a bit more on top and a little tighter bass.
> 
> I've found the Sansui stuff intriguing but I can't seem to make much sense of their lineup so I'm really not sure which would be the best to try for my preferences and budget. Initially I wouldn't want to spend much on one and in the long run I'm not sure if I'll bother right now, I have a line on an HK 930 that I'm debating picking up to compare to the 730, if I buy that I'll have to be done for awhile.


 
  If you want a little tight bass, then Sui au-x17 (x means 5 or 7) is way to go. In general, Sui has best bass to me. The best treble I can get is not from 70's stuff, but from 80's Kyocera MOSFET  R-851. Oh, man, it sounds beautiful with all nuance and ambient. I don't have other MOSFET stuff, are MOSFET all sound so ggod? But Kyocera was bashed by a lot of people online since they feel it has very thin bass.
   
  Oh, you really like H/K, same here. I am eyeing a PCM-655 online and hope i can get it for a fair price.


----------



## ardgedee

I find these descriptions of the HK 730 interesting, because I'd call the HK 670, its successor, anything but mellow. It's not harsh, has excellent balance and bass punch, and it sounds good with almost every headphone I've tried on it, but when using it while working I usually have to opt for less-resolving phones than the HE-6 (or use a different amp), because otherwise the detail becomes too distracting. As a downside, I haven't been able to coax much of a soundstage out of it. For the music I usually listen to, though, that's not much of a shortfall.
   
  Recent conversation in this thread has made me increasingly interested in comparing the HK 670 with the HK 930, SX-1250, and other better models (short of the Big Gulp-size receivers). In part because if the HK 730 and HK 670 stick in similar ways to Harmon Kardon's house sound and what else is being said holds true, then I'd probably consider Pioneer and Yamaha receivers to be unbearably shrill. But I have a vague notion that, near the top of this particular food chain, the audible differences between them are fairly nuanced in general terms and have more to do with how they're going to interact with (or react to) specific transducers -- for example, I have a lurking feeling the LCD-2 will be more complementary with the HK 670 than the HE-6 is.


----------



## paultel 2009

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I'm not sure I'd like something with less punchy and less authoritative base. Overall I'm pretty happy with the HK 730, if anything I wouldn't mind possibly a bit more on top and a little tighter bass.
> 
> I have a line on an HK 930 that I'm debating picking up to compare to the 730, if I buy that I'll have to be done for awhile.


 
   
  If you're looking for a bit more top end and slightly tighter bass, the Rev.2's that you have coming could be just the ticket judging from the accounts in the LCD2 thread. I have the Rev.1's which pair really very well with the HK930. However, I also have the HE-6's which I find to be just sensational with the HK930. As I understand it, the Rev.2 "tweaks" lean in the direction of the HE-6, so I could imagine them working very well with the HK730. I would certainly be interested to hear how you think the 930 compares to the 730, if you decide to go that route..
   
  As I mentioned some time back, the HK930 (especially paired with the HE-6's) has pretty much stopped me in my tracks as far as looking for the perfect vintage receiver goes. Although there is still some pretty fierce competition out there.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Recent conversation in this thread has made me increasingly interested in comparing the HK 670 with the HK 930, SX-1250, and other better models (short of the Big Gulp-size receivers). In part because if the HK 730 and HK 670 stick in similar ways to Harmon Kardon's house sound and what else is being said holds true, then I'd probably consider Pioneer and Yamaha receivers to be unbearably shrill. But I have a vague notion that, near the top of this particular food chain, the audible differences between them are fairly nuanced in general terms and have more to do with how they're going to interact with (or react to) specific transducers -- for example, I have a lurking feeling the LCD-2 will be more complementary with the HK 670 than the HE-6 is.


 
  Yes, please do a comparison and write a review for us! I do hope all people can write their impression and share here!


----------



## ardgedee

Oh, I'll need all those receivers first.
   
  Anybody want to donate to, uh, a good cause?


----------



## Meewoo

If you are nearby, I can definitely lend sx-1250 and pioneer cr-1020 to you. But we are 600 miles away.


----------



## AuralRelations

Random question: Why don't the Marantz Quad receivers get as much love as the other 22 series receivers? I see the Quads go for a lot lower than their stereo brothers.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Random question: Why don't the Marantz Quad receivers get as much love as the other 22 series receivers? I see the Quads go for a lot lower than their stereo brothers.


 

 Sound.sound.sound


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I find these descriptions of the HK 730 interesting, because I'd call the HK 670, its successor, anything but mellow. It's not harsh, has excellent balance and bass punch, and it sounds good with almost every headphone I've tried on it, but when using it while working I usually have to opt for less-resolving phones than the HE-6 (or use a different amp), because otherwise the detail becomes too distracting. As a downside, I haven't been able to coax much of a soundstage out of it. For the music I usually listen to, though, that's not much of a shortfall.
> 
> Recent conversation in this thread has made me increasingly interested in comparing the HK 670 with the HK 930, SX-1250, and other better models (short of the Big Gulp-size receivers). In part because if the HK 730 and HK 670 stick in similar ways to Harmon Kardon's house sound and what else is being said holds true, then I'd probably consider Pioneer and Yamaha receivers to be unbearably shrill. But I have a vague notion that, near the top of this particular food chain, the audible differences between them are fairly nuanced in general terms and have more to do with how they're going to interact with (or react to) specific transducers -- for example, I have a lurking feeling the LCD-2 will be more complementary with the HK 670 than the HE-6 is.


 

 I may have to look into a 670 at some point, I know I looked at one when I first started looking into vintage but ultimately veered away from it as a starting point. Here's a couple of posts that helped me when I was trying to make sense of the Harman Kardon lineup.
   
  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vintage/messages/1/15845.html
   
  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vintage/messages/1/15850.html
   
  Initially I had my sites set on a 430 as I've heard some say it's possibly the best sound of the x30 series but I couldn't resist the 730 when I came across a reasonably good deal on it. I have this feeling I may end up trying the whole lot at some point. That said, I did decide to pass on the 930 for now, it was a little more than I wanted to spend right now and not quite in the condition I first thought.


----------



## Skylab

The issue with all of the Quad receivers is you are wasting a lot of circuitry on something that isnt used. The Stereo receivers are much better choices for that reason.


----------



## wualta

Quote:


meewoo said:


> If you want a little tight bass, then Sui au-x17 (x means 5 or 7) is way to go. In general, Sui has best bass to me. The best treble I can get is not from 70's stuff, but from 80's Kyocera MOSFET  R-851. Oh, man, it sounds beautiful with all nuance and ambient. I don't have other MOSFET stuff, are MOSFET all sound so ggod? But Kyocera was bashed by a lot of people online since they feel it has very thin bass.


 
   
  I've heard one owner [on AK] say the _successor_ model, the R-8*6*1, had thin bass, but I've never heard an owner of an R-851 say it lacked anything. I own more than two R-851s and none of them can be said to be bass-lite;  I'm not at all familiar with this reputation for very thin bass.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## paultel 2009

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> This could lead to the purchasing of a few choice items now that I may have found a first class tech.


 
   
  ................


----------



## treal512

Well hot damn, that IS nice! I've called all the local electronic places I know of in town and it's a no-go for me


----------



## cupcakesftw

anybody have any info on the Kenwood KR 2010? there's one for sale nearby for $20.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


elnero said:


> I may have to look into a 670 at some point, I know I looked at one when I first started looking into vintage but ultimately veered away from it as a starting point. Here's a couple of posts that helped me when I was trying to make sense of the Harman Kardon lineup.


 

 Proof in some ways of the value of a second opinion: One there claims the tuner is very bad, the other that it's very good. (By interesting contrast, the Heathkit AR-1500 has a tuner section with a very good reputation, but the two I've spent extended time with have not lived up to that rep.)
   
  So far I would slot the HK 670 somewhere between what's reported in those two reviews. I'd say "cold" rather than "gritty" when describing the sound, even with the HE-6, which has great bass extension but errs towards the treble. It's highly detailed without losing the tempo of the music. "Detail" in comments usually indicates some upper mid/treble emphasis, so that may be what it is, but there's clearly no loss of range: bass has plenty of clarity, volume, and extension.
   
  I'm inclined to declare the amp's soundstaging is neither good nor bad, but not pronounced. I don't have a great love of hi-fi-ish exaggerated soundstage, so that may be just as well. The only headphones I have handy with excellent soundstaging is the K702, but I've been loathe to try the two together (if there's going to be grit, the K702 will call attention to it, so I suppose I ought to try for the benefit of SCIENCE).
   
  While the HK670 has a single transformer, it's a huge one. Which is not the same as two xfs. If HK was economizing, they didn't overdo it.
   
  Thanks for linking to those reviews; I'd seen them both back before buying my HK670, and it's interesting rereading them now that I've had a Harmon Kardon receiver to listen to for a few months. Todd Krieger's note that it has thermal tracking and bias problems is useful; since mine has to be benched sooner or later (the AUX channel is dodgy, so the DAC plugged into TAPE 1), I'll ask the tech to investigate that as well, and see if that helps


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> I've heard one owner [on AK] say the _successor_ model, the R-8*6*1, had thin bass, but I've never heard an owner of an R-851 say it lacked anything. I own more than two R-851s and none of them can be said to be bass-lite;  I'm not at all familiar with this reputation for very thin bass.


 

 Oh, I didn't notice they were talking about r-8*6*1, the basher just claimed Kyocera was junk.
  Anyway, I enjoy my R-851 very much. Comparing to vintage stuff, even my Denon HT receiver, it sounds brighter. But it is the perfect bright, very transparent and full of nuance but not fatigue. I assume you love it too since you have more than 2. Could you share your impression also?
  My r-851 has a problem. When I use the tuner part (AM, or FM), it sounds very low. Even I turn the volume slide to maximum, I couldn't get the sound lever I used to listen to. When I use other function, I only need to put the volume to scale one. Do you happen to have a schematics? Thanks!


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> Proof in some ways of the value of a second opinion...


 

  Yes, I'd agree, I balanced those comments off with those of some members here and those I read on Audio Karma which suggested almost the opposite in terms of the differences between the 930 and 730, although if I remember correctly the 670 was still described as a bit more towards neutral and cool than the older HK's, that's not necessarily a bad thing, just not what I was looking for with my first dip into vintage gear. These differences in opinion are why I'm still very curious about the 930 but if I'm going to spend a bit more than the average vintage receiver on one I'd prefer it to be a very nice example of one.


----------



## Graphicism

My second receiver has arrived; the Technics SA-5170. Has a much brighter sound than the sony and powers my 600 Ohm Beyers much better. There is no noise on the channel but I do get static whenever I touch any of the controls so it looks like it will need a thorough cleaning.
   
  Circa 1977 to 1978. Rated at 25 watts per channel RMS output at 8 Ohms.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> My second receiver has arrived; the Technics SA-5170. Has a much brighter sound than the sony and powers my 600 Ohm Beyers much better. There is no noise on the channel but I do get static whenever I touch any of the controls so it looks like it will need a thorough cleaning.
> 
> Circa 1977 to 1978. Rated at 25 watts per channel RMS output at 8 Ohms.


 

 Great looking piece, and the cat seems to love it as well!
  You don't have any PM cans to test it with?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> I've heard one owner [on AK] say the _successor_ model, the R-8*6*1, had thin bass, but I've never heard an owner of an R-851 say it lacked anything. I own more than two R-851s and none of them can be said to be bass-lite;  I'm not at all familiar with this reputation for very thin bass.


 

 My good friend Tom, a audio buyer/seller/trader has the R-651, not the prettiest unit, but some say, a receiver is just a receiver.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote: 





sweden said:


> Great looking piece, and the cat seems to love it as well!
> You don't have any PM cans to test it with?


 

 Yeah it looks good for it's age, I just need to clean the connections. The receiver temporarily replaced my cats spot so she sat on top, then the seconds receiver came as seen in the picture, just now I've received my third and she's on top of that. She likes her new heated high rise.
   
  Not sure what you mean by PM, I have other low impedance cans if you're referring to that.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> the basher just claimed Kyocera was junk.


 
  Our basher friend, whoever he is, is helping keep Kyocera auction prices low. Long may he bash!  Whenever anyone asks about Kyocera, be sure to stick out your tongue and make gagging sounds. Tell people a Kyocera receiver caused misfortune for your cat.
  
  It's true that tuners in R-851s tend not to work or to work eccentrically, but when they're working, they perform beautifully-- you feel you're hearing everything FM stations are doing to the sound, which of course is not always good to know. I very seldom listen to music on FM myself, so I haven't enquired into the reasons for Kyocera Tuner Death. I wish I did have a schematic. On yours, what happens when you take the FM interstation mute off? Do you get a loud whooshing sound, or is it still quiet?
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *cifani090* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My good friend Tom, a audio buyer/seller/trader has the R-651, not the prettiest unit, but some say, a receiver is just a receiver.


 
  The 651 looks just like the 851, you like it or you don't, and yes, it would be folly to argue against what some say. The LCD-2 r.2 is... just a headphone. Who can say otherwise?


----------



## RexAeterna

bashing amps is a good idea......i can imagine it. finding a Yamaha MX-1000U or Altec Lansing 9440A for 10 bucks at local goodwill or on ebay auction.....but i can just continue to keep dreaming cause it will never happen....sighs.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


rexaeterna said:


> bashing amps is a good idea......i can imagine it.


 

I tried that already but it didn't help.


----------



## RexAeterna

ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> I tried that already but it didn't help.




just have to put some back bone into it......man what's with people in pioneers.........they're unstable below 8ohms.the caps blow,cables melt,transistors overload and the transformers are just puny. they have worst performance compared to marantz stuff after superscope bought them. absolute poop and they can't drive a pair of sennheiser 205-II without distorting. all they are is just shiny paper weights. they're all talk and no show.


----------



## wualta

Better yet is to have someone whose troll nature rises to the surface just then and bashes the receiver under discussion with smug, absolute certainty. Timing is everything in comedy-- you gracefully step in and agree.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> Not sure what you mean by PM, I have other low impedance cans if you're referring to that.


 


  Planar magnetic headphones, like HE-6, HE-500, LCD-2 etc
  I have no idea if PM is a widespread shortening. It just sounded so good when I wrote it...


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> just have to put some back bone into it......man what's with people in pioneers.........they're unstable below 8ohms.the caps blow,cables melt,transistors overload and the transformers are just puny. they have worst performance compared to marantz stuff after superscope bought them. absolute poop and they can't drive a pair of sennheiser 205-II without distorting. all they are is just shiny paper weights. they're all talk and no show.


 
   
  I agree.


----------



## Zitro407

I LOVE vintage receivers. My favorite of the amps/receivers I own is a Sansui G-9700 from 1979. Rated at 200wpc; this thing has bottomless current, and has powered every speaker I've thrown its way with authority. Surprising amount of finesse, detail, and smoothness to the sound, too, for being such a behemoth. There's just something different about the vintage sound...has a pretty decent headphone amp, too. Opens up my Sennheiser HD-515's a lot more than my NAD C320BEE does. And many of these older receivers have excellent tuners; the Sansui makes FM radio sound crystal clear, like you're listening to a cd.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


sweden said:


> Planar magnetic headphones, like HE-6, HE-500, LCD-2 etc
> I have no idea if PM is a widespread shortening. It just sounded so good when I wrote it...


 

 "Ortho", short for Orthodynamic, is the more common term.


----------



## MrQ

I just got myself a 'new' receiver 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





...
   

  SX-1980
   
  Just trying it with the HE-6 and adapter. The sound is different to the Marantz 2385. I going to live with it for a while before I decide which will be my main head amp.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I just got myself a 'new' receiver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You know it will be the 1980


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> You know it will be the 1980


 

 These things show up this side of the pond so rarely I just couldn't resist.


----------



## Graphicism

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I just got myself a 'new' receiver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Very nice, it looks like a beast!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> These things show up this side of the pond so rarely I just couldn't resist.


 

 I first thought it was the 1010, but looked closer with the logo at the bottom and than read.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





graphicism said:


> Very nice, it looks like a beast!


 


  Thanks. It was a beast getting it up the stairs. I had it lashed to a trolley pulled up one step at a time, heave, thunk, puff, heave, thunk, puff.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> Thanks. It was a beast getting it up the stairs. I had it lashed to a trolley pulled up one step at a time, heave, thunk, puff, heave, thunk, puff.


 

 Same thing with my 1250, i has to walk about 40-60 feet and plunge it up onto my dresser which was kinda uncomfortable since i was holding it down by my waist and my dresser is upto my chest.


----------



## sluker

NICE!!!
  What does something like that go for in your neck of the woods? Did you get the history, how did it get there?
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> I just got myself a 'new' receiver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





sluker said:


> NICE!!!
> What does something like that go for in your neck of the woods? Did you get the history, how did it get there?


 
   
  It goes for an obscene price my friend. But no more than buying one in the US and having it shipped to the UK. So to sum up I'm still in denial.
   
  The history is far more palatable. Believe this or not the guy I bought it from was the second owner. The first owner had until recently had it in storage for over 30 years. He claims it to have no more than 200-300 hrs on the unit!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now, even with a truck-load of salt this thing looks brand new, minty. So who knows. It does amuse me to think I might be burning it in though.

 ps 
   
  It came with the original users manual and it's 240v switchable, so no external transformer. 
   
  pps
   
  I don't need the HE-Adapter for the HE-6. It's overkill. They sound better out out the head out.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> It goes for an *obscene price my friend*. But no more than buying one in the US and having it shipped to the UK. So to sum up I'm still in denial.
> 
> The history is far more palatable. Believe this or not the guy I bought it from was the second owner. The first owner had until recently had it in storage for over 30 years. He claims it to have no more than 200-300 hrs on the unit!
> 
> ...


 






, also everyone, he went 200 miles to pick er' up!


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


mrq said:


> I just got myself a 'new' receiver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My god.  What a behemoth.  Congratulations.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


cifani090 said:


> , also everyone, he went 200 miles to pick er' up!


 

 Uphill both ways during a raging summer blizzard!
   
  Seriously, congratulations on the find, MrQ. I recall Skylab also prefers the HE-6 from its headphone jack rather than speaker taps.


----------



## mr.khali

Quote: 





mrq said:


> It goes for an obscene price my friend. But no more than buying one in the US and having it shipped to the UK. So to sum up I'm still in denial.
> 
> The history is far more palatable. Believe this or not the guy I bought it from was the second owner. The first owner had until recently had it in storage for over 30 years. He claims it to have no more than 200-300 hrs on the unit!
> 
> ...


 

 Would like to hear your impressions in comparison to your Marantz 2385 with various headphones.  I have been looking for a 2285b or 2385.


----------



## MrQ

It was one hundred each way actually 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But would you trust a delivery company


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





mr.khali said:


> Would like to hear your impressions in comparison to your Marantz 2385 with various headphones.  I have been looking for a 2285b or 2385.


 

 I need to get my LCD-2  ALO ref 8 silver copper  from another Head-fier I lent them cables to. Immediate impressions with the HE-6 is that the Marantz sounds more 'Tube' like. The mids are lusher/creamier. The 1980 seems to have a bit more air/ note separation and soundstage. Thats from memory, I need to stack them together and a/b.


----------



## paultel 2009

@MrQ
   
  Defo' look forward to hearing your 1980 vs 2385 impressions - with both LCD 2 and HE-6's.
   
  Happy listening.


----------



## Skylab

Mr. Q, big congrats, and welcome to the SX-1980 club. I still absolutely love mine. Such an amazing sounding piece of gear. Worth every penny, IMHO. Nice!


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mr. Q, big congrats, and welcome to the SX-1980 club. I still absolutely love mine. Such an amazing sounding piece of gear. Worth every penny, IMHO. Nice!


 

 Cheers Skylab.


----------



## 5aces

Now,I love my Pioneer _but_

*Did you ever want to:*
Punch a Pioneer in the nose?
Slap a McIntosh across the face?
Kick a Marantz in the rear?

Then you roll out the 1975 Yamaha C-1 Preamplifier and matching B-1 Power Amplifier,plug it in and enjoy the show.
Now,the word 'Vintage' is not automatically synonymous with high end or even mid-fi.
We can pay a lot of money for older gear,while that same money may purchase new and perhaps better performing equipment.
Outrageous prices for hi-end tube gear from the 50's and 60's,up to five times the original retail,leaves some people speechless.
For others,more often than not,some vintage pieces may be equal or even superior to the modern hi-end gear,as they try to assemble a system with synergy,free of listener fatigue.

Both new and vintage buyers will likely share the common goal of finding which models are the over achievers.
We are here in this forum thread because we like collecting vintage hi-fi and take pleasure in the way it sounds,despite the fact it may not measure up to an outsider's standards.
These are collector pieces,as well as being working audio electronics.

1975 and transistors,sit squarely in the middle of the transition between Valves and Microprocessors as conveyances of sound.
Valves (Tubes) were hot,chunky,used lots of power and were fragile.
Enter Transistors,where you needed Quantum Physics,or at least an understanding of how electrons worked,to design one.

*Some AudioKarma Yamaha musings:*

Quite a big step down from the C-1 to the C-2:
C-1 full of FETs (90) -> C-2 four FETs.

So when they introduced the B-2/C-2 combo was an all-FET:
- way too expensive,or
- not practical anymore for some other reason ?

The C-1 really seems to be a one-of-a-kind type thing.
Only the few people who have heard a C-1 and B-1 together had a chance to get an idea how different an all FET system (or Solid State in general) can sound.
These two devices (and especially the C-1) are in reality,exclusive.

So,get a spine in your shirt and some balls in your pants because owning a C-1 & B-1 pairing entails these ponderings:

"Do you own 25+ senile V-Fet transistors? No ? :no: 
I do and it´s still like a nightmare to switch the unit on after day after day on the shelf, even if it was refurbished the year before.
It already chases me in my dreams...
Perhaps that explains a little bit my dark thoughts ..."

Audio capacitors often have a specified lifetime of typically 2000h at 85°C.
How many hours do you think your baby runs a year ?
If it´s > 2000h you should recap it at least every five years.
Dead caps may be the #1 reason of failures. 
In the B-1, a dead cap then kills a pair of mostly unobtainable V-Fets ...

“They (B-1 & B-2) sound very good but the B-1 is larger in soundstage and has a silky smooth,fat sound. 
I’ve never experienced listener fatigue from one.
Upon turning it on, you can actually hear the sound becoming magical after the big V-Fets warm up”.

*My take on the the Yamaha*

Ahh,the musings of the Invisible Yamaha Society,so similar to the Invisible Sansui Empire.
Does the Yamaha combo emasculate newer amplifiers,reducing them to the role of Chihuahua carried around in a rich lady’s purse,proving stressful for the newer amplifier owners?
No.But I wish it could.
You can move on,if you want to.
You can stay where you are,if you prefer.
You can can even go back if you wish.
Some people dedicate their lives to preserving – or recreating – the past.
If the planets offer an excellent chance to own the Yamahas,can you really reject your opportunity?
Whatever you decide,be wholehearted.The only ‘wrong’ thing you can do is be afraid of owning a FET Amplifier.
Truly an audio statement of the day,there is a reason the C-1 retailed for $1,800 and the B-1 for $1,600 in 1975.
Together,simply a high degree of euphony.Enough said.

This is my Yamaha C-1 & B-1,I'll up some better photos shortly:

click to supersize...


----------



## livewire

Ew! Old FETs.
  My hat's off to you and those who restore 1945 Indian Chiefs.
  Cant be easy....


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## ardgedee

Both, please.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mr. Q, big congrats, and welcome to the SX-1980 club. I still absolutely love mine. Such an amazing sounding piece of gear. Worth every penny, IMHO. Nice!


 

 A guy names Lee down in Evansville has a 1980 for sale for $1000 and he says it needs a few minor fix ups. He's going to get it fixed in Nashville, i was going to trade my fixed 1250 for it


----------



## vuntruong

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Now,I love my Pioneer _but_
> 
> *Did you ever want to:*
> Punch a Pioneer in the nose?
> ...


 

 Hmm, caps rated at 2000 hrs at 85 C, will last much longer than 2000 hrs at normal temp.


----------



## 5aces

The B-1 will run hot if pushed.
If using Klipschorns then a watt is plenty,I try and stay with high efficient speakers.
I make sure this amp is tuned to spec and keep a close watch on diodes and capacitors,that's where it sits now,getting an annual check-up.
Like they say,if you listen more than 2000 hours/year at sane levels,perhaps consider recaps every five years,why let a cheap cap or .50 cent diode turn your amp into a doorstop while you track down a hard to find VFET... 
Some even use a small fan like this to prevent the top enemy of electronics-heat build up:

Some amplifiers try to radiate the heat out of the top vents.
A cooling fan helps to pull that heat out and can keep electronic equipment up to 30 degrees cooler,extending the life of caps etc.



livewire said:


> Ew! Old FETs.




I agree with this statement below that the B-1 has its own distinct sound:

*My brother keeps bringing an amp over to do it in.
Every time I have to say, "I've heard enough!" 
It just can't hang with the B-1 for what I'm looking for. 
My Macs can't do it and so far a lot of other amps have come and gone too. 
That's just my humble 2 cents. 
Maybe if more people think the sound is lacking, there will be more available for those of us who have found the honey tree in the forest...*


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> A guy names Lee down in Evansville has a 1980 for sale for $1000 and he says it needs a few minor fix ups. He's going to get it fixed in Nashville, i was going to trade my fixed 1250 for it


 

 Do it. You know you want to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For some reason I thought you were in Europe.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> Do it. You know you want to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I do want to! He wanted to get it fixed and sell it at his newly opened audio shape


----------



## wualta

5aces, love your hypererotic paean to the joys of VFETting. I'm with you all the way, including the terror of anticipating the day when the secondary power supply that keeps the VFETs turned off fails. It's already happened to me.
   
  These are special beasts. I love mine.


----------



## ardgedee

Thought you guys might be interested in this site that has scans of all of *Radio Shack's catalogs*.
   
  Kind of interesting paging through the front sections of the catalogs from the late 60s through the early 80s. You can watch the ascendancy, heyday, and eventual decline of the stereo receiver.
   
  It will also make Head-Fiers of a certain age weep with nostalgia for their lost youths. I'd say more but I've got something in my eye, sorry.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## ardgedee

Don't know of any, but here: have some *Christmas Wishbook catalogs* from Sears (mostly), Eaton's, Ward's, Spiegel and J.C.Penney.


----------



## cifani090

Quote:


ardgedee said:


> Don't know of any, but here: have some *Christmas Wishbook catalogs* from Sears (mostly), Eaton's, Ward's, Spiegel and J.C.Penney.


 

 Thanks for the link, doesn't show many vintage "good" speakers,etc.


----------



## Trance88

A couple weeks ago I got a really nice Pioneer SX-636 built in October 1975. I just had to replace a few light bulbs and it really looks good. Sounds amazing as well. Nice powerful sound. It's got a damn good headphone output as well. It's only rated at 27 Watts per channel but it's somehow pushing my speakers rated at 50 watt RMS to their limits.


----------



## mythless

Newest acquisition but I haven't heard it yet and need to find some knobs.  Hitachi HMA-6500, HCA-7500, FT-8000 tuner and an odd pair of speakers.  Looks like I turned out to be a Hitachi and Pioneer collector.


----------



## Meewoo

Huge score today. I got a rare Yamaha CA-2010 for $120 plus 2 and half hours round trip. It has some dings and chips on wood case but I can stand them. Check this baby, it has 20 wpc in type-a circuits.


----------



## cifani090

^^^ You mean 120 watts, and nice deal. Wouldn't mind a deal like that, similar to my L100 $100 deal! $400-800 easy.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> It's true that tuners in R-851s tend not to work or to work eccentrically, but when they're working, they perform beautifully-- you feel you're hearing everything FM stations are doing to the sound, which of course is not always good to know. I very seldom listen to music on FM myself, so I haven't enquired into the reasons for Kyocera Tuner Death. I wish I did have a schematic. On yours, what happens when you take the FM interstation mute off? Do you get a loud whooshing sound, or is it still quiet?


 
  My R-851 still has low volume whatever I do on buttons or other things. It's really strange. My guess is that there are some loose or clog between the radio part and pre-amp. I opened it up and only found that it looks more complicate and fragile than 70's stuff. I left it be since I not really need the tuner and worry that I may do worse. Sorry for my late reply!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> ^^^ You mean 120 watts, and nice deal. Wouldn't mind a deal like that, similar to my L100 $100 deal! $400-800 easy.


 
  It features 120 wpc, but in type-A (edited *class-A*, sorry) model, it has 20 wpc. Thanks, sometimes luck just hit me! (though most time, I just get air)


----------



## Skylab

Nice Yamaha score Meewoo!


----------



## Meewoo

Thanks, Skylab!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I hope I can score a Kenwood KA-9100 in the future!


----------



## wualta

Yes, the 9100 is good, but some parts are unobtanium or nearly so (the TA-100WA output packs). The 8100 is just a little less power (75 vs. 90) and is fully discrete. Congrats on the CA-2010 scoop. Those are good amps.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Was going thru my Vintage folders and came upon some links people might or might not have....
   
   

   http://seventiesstereo.blogspot.com/
   
  http://vintagestereoreceiver.info/
   
  http://www.cdkands.com/index2.html
   
  http://www.classicaudio.com/value/index.html
   
  http://vintageelectronics.betamaxcollectors.com/vintageaudioequipmentgallery.html
   
  http://classicreceivers.com/
   
  http://www.gallagher.com/ebay.htm
   
  http://www.vintageaudioonline.com/
   
  http://audio-database.com/index.html
   
  http://www.thevintageknob.org/index.php
   
  http://www.sansui.us/Amplifiers.htm
   
  http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/receivers.html
   
  http://www.classicsansui.net/html/SansuiImages0010.html


----------



## MrQ

^ Added to my vintage folder, thanks.


----------



## wualta

There's some great stuff there, some of which was new to me. The photography on the cdkands site is exceptionally good-- well lit and very sharp and clear. Thanks!


----------



## RingingEars

Man your killing me guys. I was never really into vintage receivers until I started thumbing through this thread. Now you got me looking at all the beauties on that auction site(you know the one)...
  The Marantz units are just super fantastic. Would go perfect with my custom Dynaco ST-70.


----------



## MrQ

I thought I'd share this picture. It brought a smile to my face.


----------



## ardgedee

I have no words.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## francisdemarte

That's where "collecting" becomes "hoarding"


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I thought I'd share this picture. It brought a smile to my face.


 

 Interesting.... are you a Pioneer fan? Phhh, 2 1980, 2 1010,etc.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I thought I'd share this picture. It brought a smile to my face.


 


  OMG whoever took that pic is my new hero.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Interesting.... are you a Pioneer fan? Phhh, *2 1980*, 2 1010,etc.


 
  That's not my stack.
   

 Don't tell anyone, but after being a bit naughty on the bay, I am waiting to be delivered a pair of Pioneer HPM-100 speakers a Pioneer Monitor 10 and vintage Pioneer SE-350 headphones. 
   
  Edit that's a 1250/80 above the 1980. You can tell by the single Phono Cartridge Load. The 1980 has two dials above the volume.


----------



## Adda

Yeah me too, well done!
  
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> I thought I'd share this picture. It brought a smile to my face.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> That's where "collecting" becomes "hoarding"


 


  Maybe he's turned them into Mono Block Receivers...


----------



## RexAeterna

mrq said:


> That's not my stack.
> 
> 
> I am waiting to be delivered a pair of Pioneer HPM-100 speakers a Pioneer Monitor 10 and vintage Pioneer SE-350 headphones




really? your gonna enjoy the speakers a lot i think. very nice models. also pioneer monitor 10 is a wonderful studio headphone and very under-rated. it has great accuracy and natural flat response with wonderful stereo separation. it does need some power behind them tho to shine but you should defiantly be more then fine. i keep my pioneer monitor 10's by my side all the time right next to my 240df's. that's how much i appreciate the old pioneer's. my favorite closed headphone as well. it demands tho a good seal cause sound shifts a lot moving ear cups around but you should find that out yourself. they are pretty heavy too but i find myself able to wear them for more then 8 hours a day. hope you enjoy your new toys.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> Maybe he's turned them into Mono Block Receivers...




naw,from a very reliable inside source i heard he bought all of them to find perfect synergy with his Bose quiet comfort headphones.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> naw,from a very reliable inside source i heard he bought all of them to find perfect synergy with his Bose quiet comfort headphones.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


>




suppose to be a joke about the stack of pioneer receivers picture but i guess i failed greatly at telling it.


----------



## BmWr75

I don't see any SX-1010s in the stack.
  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Interesting.... are you a Pioneer fan? Phhh, 2 1980, 2 1010,etc.


----------



## Skylab

There are not any SX-xx50 receivers in the stack either. That stack is one of every model of SX-xx80 receiver,


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are not any SX-xx50 receivers in the stack either. That stack is one of every model of SX-xx80 receiver,


 

  I can't help wondering what the story behind having two of each is...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I don't see any SX-1010s in the stack.


 

 I thought they were on top of the 1980's, but guess not...


----------



## Skylab

warriorant said:


> I can't help wondering what the story behind having two of each is...




It isn't. There is from top to bottom, 580 680 780 880 980 1080 1280 1980.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> suppose to be a joke about the stack of pioneer receivers picture but i guess i failed greatly at telling it.


 

 No, you are not. I totally got it, but I just want to show the speechless expression!
   
  The Pionny collector is wise one, he keeps SX-x80 line two for each model. If I collect sx-50 line, I will only keep one for each model. The x80 line has the unobtanium, so ekeeping xtra one for parts is essential.
   
  Although the pioneer collect looks stunning, I like MrQ's separates more.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It isn't. There is from top to bottom, 580 680 780 880 980 1080 1280 1980.


 

 Oh, I also thought it's two of each. So 1980 is same wide as 1280?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, and both have the huge heat sinks on the back. But the SX-1980 is taller


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> really? your gonna enjoy the speakers a lot i think. very nice models. also pioneer monitor 10 is a wonderful studio headphone and very under-rated. it has great accuracy and natural flat response with wonderful stereo separation. it does need some power behind them tho to shine but you should defiantly be more then fine. i keep my pioneer monitor 10's by my side all the time right next to my 240df's. that's how much i appreciate the old pioneer's. my favorite closed headphone as well. it demands tho a good seal cause sound shifts a lot moving ear cups around but you should find that out yourself. they are pretty heavy too but i find myself able to wear them for more then 8 hours a day. hope you enjoy your new toys.


 

 It was my 1980 that inspired me. All that power just for headphones? Seemed a waste. I'm looking out for some 240 sextets now.


----------



## Skylab

The SX-1980 plus HPM-100 is a combo I enjoy greatly! I listen to that rig every day. Love it.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That's a nice looking case.  Looks excellent?  where was it made?   Here?  http://mcintoshcabinets.com/pages/fisher.htm


 
   

   
  Oh man, that is just absolutely gorgeous.
   
  Thanks for the link, WA!
   
  se


----------



## Skylab

That's where I had my Fisher cabinet made, and I can assure you that in real life they look much, much better than they even do in the pictures.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's where I had my Fisher cabinet made, and I can assure you that in real life they look much, much better than they even do in the pictures.


 

 What'd you have to go and say something like that for? Now I'm going to have to buy one. And I don't even own a Fisher. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## Skylab

I'd buy one for my Marantz 2275 if they weren't so expensive, and if it didn't already have a wood cabinet...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh man, that is just absolutely gorgeous.
> 
> Thanks for the link, WA!
> 
> se


 

 I love that, the price is a little high, but id be sure to sell it for what i paid, or ill just take it off


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'd buy one for my Marantz 2275 if they weren't so expensive, and if it didn't already have a wood cabinet...


 

 How much does he normally charge? I guess the price is around $400? You can sell your original for around $150 on line if you want.
   
  I met a local guy who is refurnishing the cases for audio stuff. He told me that he doesn't make case since it will take a lot of effort to make the 45 degree wood joint ( the edge ) of case. He normally just bring bad shape cases in and repair and re-apply the vinyl. So I think you can find a local guy re-furnishing case for you.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> How much does he normally charge? I guess the price is around $400? You can sell your original for around $150 on line if you want.
> 
> I met a local guy who is refurnishing the cases for audio stuff. He told me that he doesn't make case since it will take a lot of effort to make the 45 degree wood joint ( the edge ) of case. He normally just bring bad shape cases in and repair and re-apply the vinyl. So I think you can find a local guy re-furnishing case for you.


 

 This particular guy asks $200-300 for the Fisher cases, ive found a few people locally that make them for $150ish.


----------



## Skylab

Actually my Marantz case is a reproduction too, quite nice really, just not as nice as the McIntosh Cabinets ones. Much cheaper too - was $140.


----------



## RingingEars

Who here has a 2226B? What do you think about it?


----------



## Maverickmonk

Anyone have any thoughts on how a black case could look? like ebony stained oak? I'm beginning to think a Black/aluminum color scheme would look modern yet classy, especially with the blue dials.
   
  Also, I have crackle and pop in my system, but I think it's from more than one source. Some of it, I think, is from the speaker relay in my Marantz 2245b. I still get crackle when adjusting the volume of the headphone out of the Dennon CD player too though. What's weird is it only ever effects the left channel. It's a bit annoying, and I realize I'm going to have to do some major parts replacements to eliminate it. First up, re-clean ALL of the pots, replace the speaker relay, and slowly start working on a recap.


----------



## BmWr75

There is a Sansui AU-9900 for sale on AudioKarma.org (Bartertown - $25 annual subscription fee to access) for $600 + shipping.  Already completely recapped per the seller.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=394868


----------



## randerson07

Picked up a couple things from my dads crawl space this weekend.
  Pioneer SA-9500 needs new transistors and some resistors

   
  Sony PS X7 in working order, probably just needs a new cartride


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





randerson07 said:


> Picked up a couple things from my dads crawl space this weekend.
> Pioneer SA-9500 needs new transistors and some resistors
> 
> 
> Sony PS X7 in working order, probably just needs a new cartride


 

 Your Dad had quality items, you should take him out for dinner!


----------



## randerson07

Quote: 





mythless said:


> Your Dad had quality items, you should take him out for dinner!


 
  He's always told me to never buy cheap crap....lol
   
  I brought him a couple 6'ers of some IPAs from Binnys, better than any meal lol.
   
  He wouldn't give me his JBL L100s, and for whatever reason, either cause I didnt push hard enough or he still wants them for something, I couldnt snag his record collection either.


----------



## mythless

Indeed, both units were TOTL if not close of the "consumer" line up.  I have the SA-9500ii and I used to have the PS-X7 (Sold it as I have way to many turntables).  Both are very nice units.  The PS-X7 is quite the table.  Gel feet, anti-resonance plinth, carbon fiber tonearm, quartz lock, and oil filled mat (which is probably gone by now and started to pool).  I've tried to flatten the mat out but it'd probably take a while, best bet is to get a new mat, or another sony mat as they have made some great mats and to keep the theme.


----------



## Golfnutz

OK, so I went downstairs and pulled my Yamaha CR-2020 out of storage.
   
  Connected it to my Oppo BDP-95 (RCA), kept the XLR's connected to my Woo WA22.
   
  Plugged the headphones into the Yamaha, and there it was in all it's glory. Totally awesome sound.
   
  WA22 may be getting retired soon...


----------



## palmfish

That series Yamaha is definitely a keeper. I almost picked one up a few weeks ago when I was shopping for a vintage receiver, but I had to say no because it's just too large for my cabinet. Too bad - they are beautiful.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> How much does he normally charge? I guess the price is around $400? You can sell your original for around $150 on line if you want.
> 
> I met a local guy who is refurnishing the cases for audio stuff. He told me that he doesn't make case since it will take a lot of effort to make the 45 degree wood joint ( the edge ) of case. He normally just bring bad shape cases in and repair and re-apply the vinyl. So I think you can find a local guy re-furnishing case for you.


 


   

  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> This particular guy asks $200-300 for the Fisher cases, ive found a few people locally that make them for $150ish.


 

 Or do what I did. I got an old beat up severely scratched up case on ebay(they do come up in bad condition from time to time) for around 25.00 if I remember correctly. There's no need to wrap these in vinyl because the original cases are solid wood. I put in a little elbow grease, sanded them, stained them, and finished them off in several layers of polyurethane. It doesn't look as good as Skylab's, but I only invested a total of 35.00.  Here's some pics of it when I first finished it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> OK, so I went downstairs and pulled my Yamaha CR-2020 out of storage.
> 
> Connected it to my Oppo BDP-95 (RCA), kept the XLR's connected to my Woo WA22.
> 
> ...


 

 I wouldn't be surprised you retire WA22. Yammy just sounds awesome. I am looking for CR-3020, but couldn't find it local for almost years. Two Cr-3020 just went off ePay, one ended with $1525, another non-working one ended with $750. To me, CR-3020 is more attractive than SX-1980.
   
  @noodyrn
  Your DIY case looks stunning too. I do think if I keep collecting vintage stuff, I will eventually know the skill of technician and carpenter. Cheers for glory of vintage hi-fi!!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I wouldn't be surprised you retire WA22. Yammy just sounds awesome. I am looking for CR-3020, but couldn't find it local for almost years. Two Cr-3020 just went off ePay, one ended with $1525, another non-working one ended with $750. To me, CR-3020 is more attractive than SX-1980.
> 
> @noodyrn
> Your DIY case looks stunning too. I do think if I keep collecting vintage stuff, I will eventually know the skill of technician and carpenter. Cheers for glory of vintage hi-fi!!


 

 Paired with the Oppo BDP-95, it's amazing. Nothing is lost at all, the sonic signature of the ESS9018 is very recognizable. It doesn't sound like the CR-2020 is adding much - pretty neutral. The dynamic range is very nice too.  I just hope the SS sound doesn't start to get fatiguing. If I kept the volume down far enough, the sound becomes noticeably mellower (anything higher then 1 on the volume control is too loud). My HD800 sounds a lot different too (actually using the stock cable) - not bright at all, and the bass is more defined. Could also be because of the tone controls, and how I have them set. I'd have to say for sure, the biggest improvement is in the lower frequencies.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Paired with the Oppo BDP-95, it's amazing. Nothing is lost at all, the sonic signature of the ESS9018 is very recognizable. It doesn't sound like the CR-2020 is adding much - pretty neutral. The dynamic range is very nice too.  I just hope the SS sound doesn't start to get fatiguing. If I kept the volume down far enough, the sound becomes noticeably mellower (anything higher then 1 on the volume control is too loud). My HD800 sounds a lot different too (actually using the stock cable) - not bright at all, and the bass is more defined. Could also be because of the tone controls, and how I have them set. I'd have to say for sure, the biggest improvement is in the lower frequencies.


 



 That's why Yammy labels their product "natural sound". The SS stuff definitely has more power than tube, so bass should be more defined. I do think you won't feel fatigue pairing warm Sennheiser with cr-2020 ( I have HD-580 and HD-650). But I do feel fatigue pairing with more revealing phones like AKG q-701, even K-240 sextett after long listening.
   
  BTW, don't forget Cr-2020 has wonderful phono section!!!!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Or do what I did. I got an old beat up severely scratched up case on ebay(they do come up in bad condition from time to time) for around 25.00 if I remember correctly. There's no need to wrap these in vinyl because the original cases are solid wood. I put in a little elbow grease, sanded them, stained them, and finished them off in several layers of polyurethane. It doesn't look as good as Skylab's, but I only invested a total of 35.00.  Here's some pics of it when I first finished it.


 


  Looks awesome!!!!


----------



## ardgedee

That's an excellent idea, moodryn, and I may do just that.


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

I am salivating over this one....
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX1250-Stereophonic-Receiver-INCREDIBLE-/160656815363?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26


----------



## Skylab

That one might get close to SX-1980 pricing...I predict over $1,500 for sure.


----------



## cdnaudiophile

This is what I currently use for fun with my Grado SR60i's. A Sansui 771 from 1976:
   

   
  It has a beautiful, rich, warm sound very much like a tube amp. It's not the best for critical listening but has great musicality to it. The Grado's seem to have a great synergy with it.


----------



## moodyrn

meewoo said:


> I wouldn't be surprised you retire WA22. Yammy just sounds awesome. I am looking for CR-3020, but couldn't find it local for almost years. Two Cr-3020 just went off ePay, one ended with $1525, another non-working one ended with $750. To me, CR-3020 is more attractive than SX-1980.
> 
> @noodyrn
> Your DIY case looks stunning too. I do think if I keep collecting vintage stuff, I will eventually know the skill of technician and carpenter. Cheers for glory of vintage hi-fi!!





skylab said:


> Looks awesome!!!!




Thanks for the kind words. It was a fun weekend project. I did both the fisher and the speakers pictured.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That one might get close to SX-1980 pricing...I predict over $1,500 for sure.


 

 Always too remeber (obviously me and Skylab know this already) but de bad if mostly international people that want vintage, thats why they're willing to pay so much more. Id have no problem paying $700-800 for a mint will all packaging 1250, but anything over $1000 is too much IMO.


----------



## Meewoo

The one in link was completely restored. I will bet on Skylab's prediction.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cdnaudiophile said:


> This is what I currently use for fun with my Grado SR60i's. A Sansui 771 from 1976:
> 
> 
> 
> It has a beautiful, rich, warm sound very much like a tube amp. It's not the best for critical listening but has great musicality to it. The Grado's seem to have a great synergy with it.


 

 Do you find any difference with grado sr60 unamp and amped? I am asking since my 325i has no noticeable difference from amped.
   
  BTW, nice sui. It will be more beautiful if you can take some pic with lights on.


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That one might get close to SX-1980 pricing...I predict over $1,500 for sure.


 


  Sadly I agree. 4 days left, and almost half way there already. About as mint as mint can get.


----------



## sluker

It's a sad day.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  My SX1250 stoped working.
  It was playing one moment, and then the speakers went silent, 30 seconds later the power went out. Now it wont even power up. I opened it up, the fuses look mint (except for the ceramic primary (Fuse 12A - FU6 which is opaque so I cant see inside).
  I am sure that my guy can fix it, but the 6 week wait will be awful.


----------



## Skylab

Wow that sucks, man. Lots of people work on SX-1250's. Maybe go for a partial or complete re-cap while you are at it?

These guys did the restore on my SX-1980 and it's killer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-RESTORATION-PIONEER-SX-1250-/360098265477


----------



## RingingEars

Quote: 





case sensitive said:


> I am salivating over this one....
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX1250-Stereophonic-Receiver-INCREDIBLE-/160656815363?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26


 

 That is flat out amazing.


----------



## sluker

Thanks Rob,
  That looks thorough. It's a bit more than I wanted to spend but on the other hand it may last for another 30 years. What really makes me hesitate is shipping the unit, increased risk of damage and cost (it's got to be at least $200 there and back).
  I think I will let my local guy have a look first and see what he says. 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow that sucks, man. Lots of people work on SX-1250's. Maybe go for a partial or complete re-cap while you are at it?
> 
> These guys did the restore on my SX-1980 and it's killer:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-RESTORATION-PIONEER-SX-1250-/360098265477


----------



## livewire

Oh man!
  I've never seen a nicer resto....


----------



## RexAeterna

sluker said:


> It's a sad day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




that sucks dude. hope you get it fix. if it was me tho i probably trade it as is and try to get hold of a yamaha mx1000 power amp since they usually go cheaper than pioneer gear and it has more power and most of all 1ohm stable if you want to go crazy with big full-range electrostatic speakers cause the mx1000 can drive up to 1000w@1ohms or go for an Adcom GFA-555 but that's just me.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow that sucks, man. Lots of people work on SX-1250's. Maybe go for a partial or complete re-cap while you are at it?
> 
> These guys did the restore on my SX-1980 and it's killer:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMPLETE-RESTORATION-PIONEER-SX-1250-/360098265477


 

 That service looks good! Nice pics of the unit apart.  Looks like this guy does proud work.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Check out what this Fisher-X-1000 is going for and with 4 days still left!
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fisher-X-1000-Stereo-Master-Tube-Amplifier-Amp-All-Original-Works-w-Mullard-/260861035492?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3092947133366907930#ht_4080wt_1165


----------



## cdnaudiophile

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Do you find any difference with grado sr60 unamp and amped? I am asking since my 325i has no noticeable difference from amped.
> 
> BTW, nice sui. It will be more beautiful if you can take some pic with lights on.


 
   
  Not too much, no. I really just like the coloration the amp brings to the phones. It makes the Grados very warm sounding and takes the brightness out of them just a slight bit. I could listen for hours if it wasn't for how uncomfortable the earpads are.
   
  Thats not actually my pic. Mine is in that kind of condition though. When I get the one bulb replaced I will take some for sure.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Check out what this Fisher-X-1000 is going for and with 4 days still left!


 

 The price looked ridiculous at first glance but after reviewing some old threads on AudioKarma (there are a couple complaining about price variability on this model), I see that for at least four or five years it's been normal for auction prices to spike in the high $1k range now and again. Dramatic price shifts are common for old audio gear (bicycle gear for that matter, speaking as somebody who occasionally uses auction sites for obsolete parts), but antique tube gear seems to have exaggerated peaks. The X-1000 was not only top-of-the-line but it's also rarer than the many iterations of the 18-25 watt X-100 series and X-200 series, any of which can still be had for a fraction of this. So there aren't many on the ground and when there's a rush of interest for one, the price rockets up. Then interest cools and prices plummet again.
   
  The >$2k the winner will have to spend on purchase and restoration (maybe >$3k, since I see "all original" and read "needs a full retubing and extensive component replacement") could buy an awfully good used tube amp of roughly the same power by some other manufacturer, but I'm guessing the bidders are fixated on this model specifically.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The price looked ridiculous at first glance but after reviewing some old threads on AudioKarma (there are a couple complaining about price variability on this model), I see that for at least four or five years it's been normal for auction prices to spike in the high $1k range now and again. Dramatic price shifts are common for old audio gear (bicycle gear for that matter, speaking as somebody who occasionally uses auction sites for obsolete parts), but antique tube gear seems to have exaggerated peaks. The X-1000 was not only top-of-the-line but it's also rarer than the many iterations of the 18-25 watt X-100 series and X-200 series, any of which can still be had for a fraction of this. So there aren't many on the ground and when there's a rush of interest for one, the price rockets up. Then interest cools and prices plummet again.
> 
> The >$2k the winner will have to spend on purchase and restoration (maybe >$3k, since I see "all original" and read "needs a full retubing and extensive component replacement") could buy an awfully good used tube amp of roughly the same power by some other manufacturer, but I'm guessing the bidders are fixated on this model specifically.


 

 Oh how I wish I had the skills to restore these beauties.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





vuntruong said:


> I Sold The RSA amp because i find the vintage Kenwood 600 sounds wonderful. The KA 7300 Sounds great too.  and it is Cheap.  Easy to mod with fancy or cheap capacitors.


 

 I am re-reading the whole thread and find these nice pegs. Doe anyone know where I can buy them? I really need them to push up the space between my stacks.


----------



## Skylab

I completely changed out my basement system...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I completely changed out my basement system...


 

 Very nice "family system".


----------



## Meewoo

@Skylab
  Indeed "family system" even have a game console. Nice!
   
  You are really a Pionny fan, why not add a equilizer?
   
  Where is you Sui, Marantz (2275 & quad one) and Sony V7?


----------



## TDL-speakers

Not the best Marantz. I use a Marantz 1040 with my Grado SR325s, SR80 and sometimes HD600 Headphones. And I think it does a decent job driving my headphones.
   
  Any other better Marantz to go for?
   
  Regards.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I am a Pioneer guy it seems! My 9090DB is used just for headphones - I use it with the LCD-2. The Marantz is in the office driving either the HE-6 or B&W N805's. Yes, I have too much gear 

This system is good for the family, and what can't be seen is an iDevice dock so my kids can connect their iPod/iPhone to play their music.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I am a Pioneer guy it seems! My 9090DB is used just for headphones - I use it with the LCD-2. The Marantz is in the office driving either the HE-6 or B&W N805's. Yes, I have too much gear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 LOL, tell em' to rip the RCA cable and do it that way, less cables=better sound


----------



## 5aces

Any perceived flaws are just poor lighting,these two pieces are mint,maybe a drop of sweat on the B-1 faceplate from lifting the heavy duty amp. 

Still waiting for the 1975 Yamaha C-1 Preamplifier to get back from the shop,triple bubble wrap for the journey...

Using the Sansui AU 20000 Preamplifier section for the 1975 Yamaha B-1 Power Amplifer (until the C-1 returns).

The Yamaha is 160W and the integrated Sansui AU 20000 is 170W.

Let me say the Yamaha lays the smack down on the big Sansui.

Sansui seems to have a different volume circuit design that delivers more power quicker than the Yamaha.

This big 80+ pound VFET Yamaha is a fine amplifier when matched to monitor model speakers.

Roll out the Yamaha NS 1000 or the JBL L 112 speakers and you can't stop listening.

Will be attending the TAVES audio show in Toronto this weekend,so I'll see what new amplifiers draw me in...



wualta said:


> These are special beasts. I love mine.




You seem to catch the drift,grateful to have the opportunity to hear this amp even if it breaks later. 

Only a few B-1 amplifiers change hands worldwide each year,you and I know why.


----------



## Meewoo

@5aces,
  Your TOTL or second to TOTL stuff just keeps me drooling.


----------



## treal512

Jeebus, I have to stay out of here


----------



## BmWr75

Kenwood KW-40 tube receiver, made in the early to mid-1960s.  The face and case are in near mint condition.     4 EL84 power tubes
   
  Has been partially recapped.  Contains a duke's mixture of power and driver tubes.  Sounds damn good already though with cans and speakers.


----------



## MrQ

@skylab. 

Nice set up. It' interesting that with the aqusition of my 'little monsters' I'm having to totally rethink my listening space. These things won't quietly sit in a corner .

What are you using as stands for your HPM-60's?


----------



## MrQ

Ah that's sweet, or should I say 'cherry'. Looks like something you'd listen to after driving this...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Kenwood KW-40 tube receiver, made in the early to mid-1960s.  The face and case are in near mint condition.     4 EL84 power tubes
> 
> Has been partially recapped.  Contains a duke's mixture of power and driver tubes.  Sounds damn good already though with cans and speakers.


 

 Very nice early Kenwood, and one of the few Kenwoods with tubes,especially a receiver.
   
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> @skylab.
> Nice set up. It' interesting that with the aqusition of my 'little monsters' I'm having to totally rethink my listening space. These things won't quietly sit in a corner .
> What are you using as stands for your HPM-60's?


 

 They are custom stands, i think they are buckets he bought at Target it i remember correctly,


----------



## ardgedee

Never underestimate the value of bricks as speaker stands.
   
  I had a couple wrapped in butchers paper that I was using to raise a desk to a more comfortable height until I could replace the desk with one that was built to the right height. Now the bricks, still wrapped in paper, are plinths for the speakers to elevate the tweeters to ear level. I wasn't really doing it with audiophile improvements in mind but the mass certainly helps keep the shelf from rattling when something bassy is going down.
   
  It totally fits the decor of the office, too. Or, as my partner put it when she saw my setup: "Are those bricks... wrapped in paper?"


----------



## Skylab

Scott, that's a sweet looking Kenwood! Congrats.

MrQ, yes indeed, the stands are just plastic bins from Target. They happen to be the perfect size both in terms of base and height. I use them under my HPM-100's in my main vintage rig too.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Hey, don't be knocking the 10** series, They're supposed to be pretty great. I'd love to get a 10** integrated and a 104 tuner, but I would have to sell the 2245 (great mid-price marantz amp btw, pretty powerful, but not as expensive as the 2275 and 2285. Very rich sound, drives my grado's and my sextetts nicely). Many people prefer the 22XX series as far as receivers go, and I think the 2245 is a great step. If you don't have any crazy hard to drive headphones the 2220 might even suffice well.
  Quote: 





tdl-speakers said:


> Not the best Marantz. I use a Marantz 1040 with my Grado SR325s, SR80 and sometimes HD600 Headphones. And I think it does a decent job driving my headphones.
> 
> Any other better Marantz to go for?
> 
> Regards.


----------



## TDL-speakers

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Hey, don't be knocking the 10** series, They're supposed to be pretty great. I'd love to get a 10** integrated and a 104 tuner, but I would have to sell the 2245 (great mid-price marantz amp btw, pretty powerful, but not as expensive as the 2275 and 2285. Very rich sound, drives my grado's and my sextetts nicely). Many people prefer the 22XX series as far as receivers go, and I think the 2245 is a great step. If you don't have any crazy hard to drive headphones the 2220 might even suffice well.


 

  
  Is the 2275 & 2285 powerful? Can they drive any headphone?
   
  Regards.


----------



## Questhate

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I completely changed out my basement system...


 
   
  I think you need to ditch the N64 and pick up one of these to complete your vintage system:


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





questhate said:


> I think you need to ditch the N64 and pick up one of these to complete your vintage system:


 


  Wow I just tossed one of those away.


----------



## Skylab

No way baby - my son LOVES the N64! It's his "vintage" interest


----------



## log0

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No way baby - my son LOVES the N64! It's his "vintage" interest


 


  Who doesn't love the N64? It changed gaming! I bet you play Mario Kart 64 with him, still a great video game.


----------



## Skylab

We play the original NFL Blitz


----------



## treal512

Haha, that is awesome.. but everyone knows SNES is the best


----------



## Maverickmonk

So far as I read, they can drive nearly any headphone (not sure about the k1000) through the headphone out. The 2245 is still very powerful (It drives my 600ohm Sextett beautifully through the headphone out) but I cannot remember if it can drive monsters like the HE-6. If it can't however, you can still power them off of the speaker taps, you can do that with pretty much any receiver. Like i said though, I have no experience with ortho-headphones, only my Sextetts, which are pretty hard to drive fully as far as dynamics go
  Quote: 





tdl-speakers said:


> Is the 2275 & 2285 powerful? Can they drive any headphone?
> 
> Regards.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





log0 said:


> Who doesn't love the N64? It changed gaming! I bet you play Mario Kart 64 with him, still a great video game.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> No way baby - my son LOVES the N64! It's his "vintage" interest


 

 We still have a few old game systems to go with the new, but no truly vintage ones like Atari, Sega or NES - but we still own an N64, GameCube, Wii, PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP, Xbox, Xbox360, Gameboy Color, DSi, and 3DS.  Pilot Wings and Mario Kart FTW!
   
  To keep this on topic, I owned a Marantz 2240 back in 9th or 10th grade in the late 70's, and it's nice having one now.  I'm still impressed with the 2240 driving my HD800 from the headphone jack and HE-6 via the speaker outputs.  The longer I have it the more it seems like it would be worthwhile to have it re-capped and cleaned.


----------



## treal512

Have you heard any vintage Harman Kardon models in comparison to your 2240? I'm allured by the Marantz styling and SQ, but I'm not sure how different it would be from my HK730.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> To keep this on topic, I owned a Marantz 2240 back in 9th or 10th grade in the late 70's, and it's nice having one now.


 

 Wow, I really am old.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Have you heard any vintage Harman Kardon models in comparison to your 2240? I'm allured by the Marantz styling and SQ, but I'm not sure how different it would be from my HK730.


 

 I don't have Marantz 2240, but I have marantz 1060. From information gathered online, they are almost identical (a lot of people on AK think only 1030, 1060, 2040, 2070 are true MARANTZ). Comparing 1060 to HK730, they are very good amps. Like people said, HK has the best combination of smooth and energetic. So, you will loose the energetic part and get more lush from HK to Marantz.
  2240 has typical "three martini" sound, low-mid emphasized and roll off high, smooth and lush. They are all wonderful receivers. Why not own both?


----------



## WNBC

The music keeps you young 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 You guys surely remember Intellivision!  
  Parents made me watch WKRP, Barney Miller, Golden Girls, Night Court, T.J. Hooker, etc.  Till this day I still love those shows.  Thanks Mom.
   
  Let's see some Tandberg love on this thread.  Seems to be rare find locally.  
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Wow, I really am old.


----------



## lorriman

I could do with some advice.

I've Fostex T50rp orthos for which I need to get an amp. I'm most interested in vintage (or near vintage) receivers or integrated amplifiers as I intend to get some speakers soon also; and I'm on a budget.

However I've understood that the HP jack on integrated amps is usually suited to 120ohms+, and will give trouble to headphones lower than that. My orthos are 50ohms, darn it. However they are said to be hard to drive and so I am wondering whether I may be able to get away with it anyway. The ortho specs are sensitivity 98 dB/mW and max input 3000mW, if that means anything to you (it means zilch to me, and the word 'ohms' is equally meaningless, though I'm handy with a solder).

What I've particularly been thinking of is a Rotel, probably RA810a, as the seem to be quite common.

Do you think I'm going to get satisfaction from a vintage amp? If not is there anything simplish that I could do to make it work anyway. Resistors etc.


----------



## ardgedee

I found the marketing white sheet for the Rotel RA-810, which provides some specs. Don't know if that'll help.


----------



## lorriman

ardgedee said:


> I found the marketing white sheet for the Rotel RA-810, which provides some specs. Don't know if that'll help.




I think that's an older one, but thanks.


----------



## lorriman

lorriman said:


> Do you think I'm going to get satisfaction from a vintage amp? If not is there anything simplish that I could do to make it work anyway. Resistors etc.




In reference to my own post: I did come across a chap talking about dissembling the HP socket and putting resisters across. Looked vaguely promising.

As a matter of interest, would a multimeter be enough to work out what kind of adjustment would be necessary for my headphones (once I've got the amp, obviously)? Or would I need to be getting specs from the manufacturer?


----------



## tnmike1

After some advice from Mrarroyo and others here, I picked up a totally restored Marantz 2215 on ebay and am lovin' it.  The lights in it were changed toLEDs and that sexy blue light coming off the tuner with the red "stereo" light is truly beautiful.  Plus it works well with mysmall Mission bookshelf speakers in a small bedroom/office setting.  Has all the hookups I need too for turntable, iPod and heaadphones sound great out of it too.  All in all, couldn't be happier.  In a small room  anything larger would have been a waste in my opiinion


----------



## BmWr75

50 ohms should not be an issue for vintage receivers (e,g, 1980 and earlier) and probably newer ones too. The only amps I know that have trouble with low impedance cans are tube based and output transformerless.


----------



## Skylab

I'm not sure about the Fostex, but in the case of the planar orthos, the low-ish impedance is of no consequence at all, because the only issue there is damping factor, which does not apply to planars. 

But some people debate the whole idea that damping factor matters even in dynamic drivers. I agree with Scott - you should not worry about it - a good powerful vintage receiver should have no problem driving your Fostex well.


----------



## MrQ

My Pioneer SE-305's are rated at 8 ohms and work off the vintage receivers of the same period.


----------



## lorriman

That's great to know. 

I've understood that some more modern amps/receivers use opamps which I should avoid. Would I be safe getting a relatively recent Rotel? Are there other makes likely to avoid opamps?


----------



## lorriman

One further question: is it generally as simple as getting an RCA connector to feed an integrated from my clip+? I know you folks probably consider this a blasphemy but I'm on a budget and yet need a lot of power for my phones.


----------



## MrQ

you need to update your profile.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





lorriman said:


> One further question: is it generally as simple as getting an RCA connector to feed an integrated from my clip+? I know you folks probably consider this a blasphemy but I'm on a budget and yet need a lot of power for my phones.


 


  Yes, at least yes for an iPod.  Should be the same cable for a sansa clip.  1/8" stereo mini plug to male RCA cable.   The RCA end can be plugged into any analog input on the receiver/integrated amp (i.e., tape, CD, Auxiliary).
   
http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1317502532&sr=8-3


----------



## lorriman

skylab said:


> I'm not sure about the Fostex, but in the case of the planar orthos, the low-ish impedance is of no consequence at all, because the only issue there is damping factor, which does not apply to planars.
> But some people debate the whole idea that damping factor matters even in dynamic drivers. I agree with Scott - you should not worry about it - a good powerful vintage receiver should have no problem driving your Fostex well.




When you say 'powerful' would a 20 watt Rotel do the job? I understand that that isn't much power but perhaps it's enough for the Fostex orthos. I'm on my horizon of what I can afford I'm seeing 20 to 30 watts so far. I'm somewhat concerned about not using too much power simply to keep electricity costs reasonable. For example the Pioneer A400 came up for a good price, but I beleive it's fairly electricity hungry. In any case I've also seen a report that someone found it's headphone capability to be pretty dreadful.


----------



## lorriman

bmwr75 said:


> Yes, at least yes for an iPod.  Should be the same cable for a sansa clip.  1/8" stereo mini plug to male RCA cable.   The RCA end can be plugged into any analog input on the receiver/integrated amp (i.e., tape, CD, Auxiliary).
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Audio-Cable-Splitter-1-Mini/dp/B00004Z5CP/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1317502532&sr=8-3




Great, thanks for that.


----------



## BmWr75

Rotel made some good stuff.  What make, model and year of production you looking at?


----------



## lorriman

bmwr75 said:


> Rotel made some good stuff.  What make, model and year of production you looking at?




I'm being fairly general since I don't know enough, which is why I mentioned only wattage as that is my present concern. I'm checking out models as they come up on auction sites but I haven't fixed on any particular one. I would rather not need to have it serviced so perhaps late 90's.


----------



## ardgedee

A late 90s integrated or receiver is, broadly speaking, more likely to have a dedicated opamp circuit for the headphone jack.
   
  Whether this is true of specific models you're considering would have to require investigation.
   
  Older receivers powered headphones through the speakers' amp circuit simply because opamps hadn't been invented yet (for the purposes of mass-produced hi-fi components, anyway) and dedicated headphone amplifier circuits would be too expensive and consume too much space in the cabinet.
   
  For the most part, almost any vintage integrated or receiver should have enough power for your Fostex phones. If you aren't fixated on a Rotel specifically, the NAD 3020 (20 wpc integrated) and NAD 7020 (20 wpc receiver) are classics and still easy to find relatively cheaply, even on the big auction sites.


----------



## Skylab

I personally would want more than 20 watts, because that's 20 watts into 8 ohms, you won't get that into 50 ohms, and if the Rotel has a dropping resistor, could be even less. I'm not sure what the sensitivity of the Fostex are though.


----------



## ardgedee

Fostex claims 98 dB/mW for the T50RP. It should be able to get plenty loud on a couple watts.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, that shouldn't require much power at all then. But it will still need something good sounding


----------



## schwallman

Would $200 be a good price on the pioneer sa 9500. The guy says it's near mint. I can listen before the purchase. I'm just getting into vintage receivers and this seems to be a good place to start.


----------



## livewire

Remember the primo SX-1250 on ebay that was mentioned earlier?
  Just sold for $1845 including shipping. Yow! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160656815363&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123


----------



## Skylab

Yeah that is no surprise. I guarantee the person who bought it will be very fired up. A beautiful specimen of that fine receiver with a full recap and restore - easily worth that IMHO.


----------



## Meewoo

x2,
   
  And the buyer mostly won't have problems in 20 years!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah that is no surprise. I guarantee the person who bought it will be very fired up. A beautiful specimen of that fine receiver with a full recap and restore - easily worth that IMHO.


 

 Its very nice, but spend another $200-500 and you can have yourself a 1980. I can only hope he gets his $1,800 out of it when and if he sells it.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


meewoo said:


> And the buyer mostly won't have problems in 20 years!


 

 It's not just a receiver, it's instant self-actualization!


----------



## schwallman

i picked up that pioneer sa 9500 I mentioned earlier. It sounds pretty nice to me. It could use a good cleaning but thats nothing major. Really happy with the purchase.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





schwallman said:


> i picked up that pioneer sa 9500 I mentioned earlier. It sounds pretty nice to me. It could use a good cleaning but thats nothing major. Really happy with the purchase.


 
  Even though I don't have SA-9500, but based on my SA-9100 and SA-9500ii. I think $200 is a fair price and well worth it (at least better than Samsung craps). I think Sa-9500 will sound like SX-x50 lines, but don't have the pretty face and wood case. Cheers!


----------



## schwallman

did it originally come with a wood case. Ive seen pictures with a wood case and others with just the rack mount look to it.
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Even though I don't have SA-9500, but based on my SA-9100 and SA-9500ii. I think $200 is a fair price and well worth it (at least better than Samsung craps). I think Sa-9500 will sound like SX-x50 lines, but don't have the pretty face and wood case. Cheers!


----------



## Meewoo

As far as I know, only Sa-x100 and SA-x800 are wood case design. Others are wood case optional.


----------



## randerson07

Quote: 





schwallman said:


> i picked up that pioneer sa 9500 I mentioned earlier. It sounds pretty nice to me. It could use a good cleaning but thats nothing major. Really happy with the purchase.


 

 Im in the process of bringing one back to life, first go around didnt work out. Placing an order for some new parts this week to try again.
   
  I also just picked up an Onkyo TX6500 mkii today. Needs a few lamps, is missing the jumpers for the Pre out/Main In, not sure that FM works, need to try with an Antenna, but Im happy. Its massive, bigger than any of my other gear by a long shot. So far it sounds pretty good, some of the controls, mainly the balance knob, cause some crackle, but Ill be cleaning it up and doing further testing tomorrow, here are some pics.


----------



## elnero

paultel 2009 said:


> I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the Rev.2's. I have a feeling that you may find them to be an even better match for the 730 than the Rev.1's. (Also, totally agree with your observations about the HK vs SX sound sigs.)




It took longer than expected for the Rev. 2's to arrive, I just got them last Friday. I'd have to say you were right, the Rev.2's and the HK730 are proving to be a very nice match indeed.


----------



## BlueAlien

I built some speakers this summer and found that my Marantz 2015 couldn't power them, so I purchased a Marantz 2252. I love the sound of it through both my headphones and speakers. I have yet to hear better sound through my headphones than when I drive them with my 2252.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Its very nice, but spend another $200-500 and you can have yourself a 1980. I can only hope he gets his $1,800 out of it when and if he sells it.


 


  Then the question would be how much would it cost to first find 1) SX-1980 2) How to avoid a bidding war 3) Cost for a complete restoration that is equal the SX-1250 and 4) Again, how often does at SX-1980 show up.


----------



## moodyrn

I've seen them often on ebay, and have even seen a few on cl. But I would rather have a good condition 1980 than a like new 1250. I would of course be happy with either.


----------



## Skylab

I also would rather have a good condition SX-1980 than a like new SX-1250.  However, if I had to choose between a good condition SX-1980 and a fully restored 1250, I would go with the 1250. 
   
  But the prices fluctuate a lot.  I was able to buy a fully restored/recapped SX-1980 for $1,800 - so those deals are there.  You just have to poke around


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I also would rather have a good condition SX-1980 than a like new SX-1250.  However, if I had to choose between a good condition SX-1980 and a fully restored 1250, I would go with the 1250.
> 
> But the prices fluctuate a lot.  I was able to buy a fully restored/recapped SX-1980 for $1,800 - so those deals are there.  You just have to poke around


 

 As stated before, id also be happy with an older restore or working 1980, than a MINT 1250. Id definitely not pay $5,000 for a fully recapped 1980 by this seller since thats probably what it'd go for.


----------



## schwallman

I was curious if there is a good cleaner out there to get rid of the yellow oxidation going on in some spots on the front of the pioneer sa-9500? I opened it up last night and the original owner must have cleaned it up pretty good before I bought it. There are also a few little rusty looking spots on the back of the case that I might just let be.


----------



## RexAeterna

mythless said:


> Then the question would be how much would it cost to first find 1) SX-1980 2) How to avoid a bidding war 3) Cost for a complete restoration that is equal the SX-1250 and 4) Again, how often does at SX-1980 show up.




go yamaha. yamaha mx-1000. you know you want to. *in a ghost voice*


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





schwallman said:


> I was curious if there is a good cleaner out there to get rid of the yellow oxidation going on in some spots on the front of the pioneer sa-9500? I opened it up last night and the original owner must have cleaned it up pretty good before I bought it. There are also a few little rusty looking spots on the back of the case that I might just let be.


 


  You can try Brasso - just be careful around any lettering, as it can take that off.


----------



## singh

anyone know of sansui B-2101 and C-2101 Power - Pre  ( respectively ) ??
  there is very little info on the net about them.
  am getting an offer for them at around $600, any good ?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





singh said:


> anyone know of sansui B-2101 and C-2101 Power - Pre  ( respectively ) ??
> there is very little info on the net about them.
> am getting an offer for them at around $600, any good ?


 

 Its pretty high for the Western hemisphere, but maybe incommon over there in India where it may be scarce. Its only worth $200-300 tops over here in the US.


----------



## schwallman

I will give it a try. I would lve to build a wood enclosure for it in the future.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> You can try Brasso - just be careful around any lettering, as it can take that off.


----------



## singh

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Its pretty high for the Western hemisphere, but maybe incommon over there in India where it may be scarce. Its only worth $200-300 tops over here in the US.


 


  am also getting a sa-9800 at 400, which is about the same as they go for on ebay (US). should i go for sa-9800 or the b-2101 ?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





singh said:


> am also getting a sa-9800 at 400, which is about the same as they go for on ebay (US). should i go for sa-9800 or the b-2101 ?


 

 SA-9800, and try to negotiate. But no matter what you get, it depends on what your ears like.


----------



## singh

As i already have a au-999
  i need some thing neutral , so i think the pioneer will suit the bill.
   
  i cant try them before buying ...but i have read enough about them to decide.
   
  not much about the b-2101 on the net though , as its 200W Power amp i though it might be in the league of au-x11/111/au-20000 thats why i asked .


----------



## sansui

B-2101 is most similar to AU-11 (II)
  AU-111 ( tube amp) and AU-20000 have a completely different sound.
  B-2101 (and B-2102 is newer,almost the same amp) is very modern alpha design,neutral,there are a lot of power for almost every type of speakers and it would be very important that the amplifier is set according to sm....recaping is a crucial too  and then you have a very good amp.I liked it,but at one point I had to decide which amps stay...and I sold B.
  About C-2101 I don't know much ,but according to images is not in the same league as amp IMHO.
  
  Quote: 





singh said:


> As i already have a au-999
> i need some thing neutral , so i think the pioneer will suit the bill.
> 
> i cant try them before buying ...but i have read enough about them to decide.
> ...


----------



## schwallman

The 9800 I picked up a few days ago has finally started to show its age. The left channel comes in and out and crackles alot. I can unplug the headphones and plug them back in and get clean sound again but for how long is random.


----------



## schwallman

Im not sure about the use of deoxit. Could I put it on the headphone plug and put it in/out of the jack to clean the inside? What is it safe to spray it on in the reciever?


----------



## randerson07

Quote: 





schwallman said:


> Im not sure about the use of deoxit. Could I put it on the headphone plug and put it in/out of the jack to clean the inside? What is it safe to spray it on in the reciever?


 


  I just used Deoxit for the first time a couple nights ago. I used it on a Pot on on under side of my TT and got the stuff ALL OVER that circuit board. I also used it on a couple of the Pots on my Onkyo 6500 mkii also getting the spray all over the place.
   
  I let them dry maybe for an hour before I put the covers back on and turned them on, no harm done and the stuff worked wonders. I think you could just spray the stuff in there insert your jack and twist it around and repeat. But maybe someone else knows a better way.


----------



## schwallman

So it shouldnt harm the components inside the reciever? I wonder if just spraying inside the headphone jack would be fine.
   
   
  Quote: 





randerson07 said:


> I just used Deoxit for the first time a couple nights ago. I used it on a Pot on on under side of my TT and got the stuff ALL OVER that circuit board. I also used it on a couple of the Pots on my Onkyo 6500 mkii also getting the spray all over the place.
> 
> I let them dry maybe for an hour before I put the covers back on and turned them on, no harm done and the stuff worked wonders. I think you could just spray the stuff in there insert your jack and twist it around and repeat. But maybe someone else knows a better way.


----------



## Meewoo

Yes, You can apply D-5 for most part of the machine (including headphone ports and mic ports). But don't apply to tuner blades and relay.  D-5 wouldn't destroy them, just it leaves residue on them. Those residues will affect tuner and relay (of course you should keep them clean).


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





schwallman said:


> So it shouldnt harm the components inside the reciever? I wonder if just spraying inside the headphone jack would be fine.


 
   
Here's some useful info on using DeOxit


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





schwallman said:


> So it shouldnt harm the components inside the reciever? I wonder if just spraying inside the headphone jack would be fine.


 


  I suggest spraying Dexoit on a Q-tip first then inserting the Q-tip in the HP jack to clean it.  Just spin it around a bunch of times.


----------



## schwallman

elnero said:


> Here's some useful info on using DeOxit




Great link, thanks.


----------



## schwallman

bmwr75 said:


> I suggest spraying Dexoit on a Q-tip first then inserting the Q-tip in the HP jack to clean it.  Just spin it around a bunch of times.


Good idea, I'll give it a try this afternoon.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> go yamaha. yamaha mx-1000. you know you want to. *in a ghost voice*


 


  I would love to get a Yamaha, I still have not experienced the whole Yamaha experience yet!  Then again, I have too many amps, need to figure out a way to down size.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





mythless said:


> I would love to get a Yamaha, I still have not experienced the whole Yamaha experience yet!  Then again, I have too many amps, need to figure out a way to down size.


 

 I'll help you out, you can send that SX-5590 my way.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





elnero said:


> I'll help you out, you can send that SX-5590 my way.


 

 Sorry but that Pioneer is reserved


----------



## Skylab

I decided to jump on a fully restored Marantz 2285, so am selling my 2275.  The 2285 is a little more powerful and sounds it, and is quite the looker:


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I decided to jump on a fully restored Marantz 2285, so am selling my 2275.  The 2285 is a little more powerful and sounds it, and is quite the looker:


 

 ^ Very nice Skylab.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I decided to jump on a fully restored Marantz 2285, so am selling my 2275.  The 2285 is a little more powerful and sounds it, and is quite the looker:


 

 Was the price less than what you paid for your 2275?


----------



## Skylab

The price for the 2285 I just got?  No, it was more.  But I am selling the 2275 for less than I paid


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The price for the 2285 I just got?  No, it was more.  But I am selling the 2275 for less than I paid


 

 I knew it, just wondering since if you would of or did get it local it would of been cheaper. Someone will be happy with the 2275, but throw it up on ebay like i did with my 2270 to get closer to what you paid for it, if not more.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I decided to jump on a fully restored Marantz 2285, so am selling my 2275.  The 2285 is a little more powerful and sounds it, and is quite the looker:


 

 Need new pants.
   

   
  (Sorry, I had to)


----------



## Meewoo

The thread has been cool down for several days. Now Skylab got this hot marantz. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Are there anyone get hot stuff??


----------



## livewire

Yeah, this gets pretty hot.
  1924 AK Model 10 Receiver.
  Unrestored, still works fine.


----------



## livewire

Almost forgot the speaker...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Yeah, this gets pretty hot.
> 1924 AK Model 10 Receiver.
> Unrestored, still works fine.


 
  That is nice.  I've never seen anything like it.  What might it go for on todays market?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





mythless said:


> I would love to get a Yamaha, I still have not experienced the whole Yamaha experience yet!  Then again, I have too many amps, need to figure out a way to down size.


 

 I have a Yamaha CR 820.  Works great. I cleaned it up head to toe and then realized it wouldn't fit into any rack or space I have.  It's really big.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> That is nice.  I've never seen anything like it.  What might it go for on todays market?


 


 This radio was made by a company named Atwater Kent.
  It was one of the earliest radios produced, the style is known as a "breadboard".
  Intentionally uncased, the manufacturers wanted to show off the early tube technology
  until it was learned that people could be seriously burned or worse yet shocked by the exposed circuitry.
   
  These days an intact, undamaged example of this model sells for around $800 on ebay.
  The earlier variants from 1923 go for as much as $1200.
  There are other similar (rarer) models that sell for as much as $5000.


----------



## livewire

Depicted is an example of an AK Model 5. Uber-rare.
  Only one "tube island" but packed with five tubes.
  These normally fetch $3500 to $5000.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Depicted is an example of an AK Model 5. Uber-rare.
> Only one "tube island" but packed with five tubes.
> These normally fetch $3500 to $5000.


 

 I would love to see any of those first hand.  I'll bet the build is amazing.


----------



## livewire

Here is another piece of "hollow state" technology from my collection.
  It was the first _ever_ commercial tube radio sold to the public. (circa 1921)
  Made by RCA and marketed by Westinghouse, it is named "The Aeriola".
  Only one tube, therefore only one stage of amplicafication, one had to use headphones.
  I also have a couple sets of 1920's cans for this radio. And yes it still plays.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I would love to see any of those first hand.  I'll bet the build is amazing.


 


 Go to a technology museum! They got em.
   
  Or, you're welcome to visit my place if you are ever in San Diego...


----------



## RexAeterna

mythless said:


> I would love to get a Yamaha, I still have not experienced the whole Yamaha experience yet!  Then again, I have too many amps, need to figure out a way to down size.




trust me, if you heard what the mx-1000,cx-1000 combination can do then everything you have you would want to sell. they weren't consider legendary for their looks.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> I have a Yamaha CR 820.  Works great. I cleaned it up head to toe and then realized it wouldn't fit into any rack or space I have.  It's really big.




i own a later yamaha personally. the yamaha R-9. might not look as pretty since it's a black receiver of the mid 80's but the power and sound it gives defiantly is it's best feature(heard yamaha put their famous MX,CX and TX series in one package with the R-X receiver series). i even like it over big early 70's gear like from sansui,marantz and pioneer. even works well for headphone driving and brings out the clarity, deep bass extension and treble extension my sextetts LP and 240DF's are capable of.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Here is another piece of "hollow state" technology from my collection.
> It was the first _ever_ commercial tube radio sold to the public. (circa 1921)
> Made by RCA and marketed by Westinghouse, it is named "The Aeriola".
> Only one tube, therefore only one stage of amplicafication, one had to use headphones.
> I also have a couple sets of 1920's cans for this radio. And yes it still plays.


 
  Wow. Your collection is flooring me. Really amazing.  The original owners were the protoaudiophiles.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i own a later yamaha personally. the yamaha R-9. might not look as pretty since it's a black receiver of the mid 80's but the power and sound it gives defiantly is it's best feature(heard yamaha put their famous MX,CX and TX series in one package with the R-X receiver series). i even like it over big early 70's gear like from sansui,marantz and pioneer. even works well for headphone driving and brings out the clarity, deep bass extension and treble extension my sextetts LP and 240DF's are capable of.


 


  I like the tone controls on the Yamaha CR 820.  It has separate dial controls for Bass,  Presence, Treble, and Loudness.  I wish more gear had this selection.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Wow. Your collection is flooring me. Really amazing.  The original owners were the protoaudiophiles.


 

 To clarify, the spendy AK Model 5 is not mine.
  In real life it was very difficult to use.
  The early models with more tuning controls were capable of better reception.
  These were the Model A's of sound science. Fred Flintstone loved them.
  Contests were held (and still are) to see who could tune in the most stations
  and who could tune in the station farthest away. Reception was key.
  Clarity of sound was another holy grail and by today's standards,
  they all sounded like s**t. Very "tinny" with a lot of static and reverb.
  Oft times one could hear two or three stations at once. Fading in and fading out.
  Things got a lot better in the early 1930's
  when single dial tuning and "superhet" designs came into existence.
  "Stereo" was a concept not yet invented.
   
  One last pic. The endearing design of the 1931 Philco Cathedral.
  These were called "baby grands" or "beehives" by enthusiasts.
  Two models were produced. On the outside they looked almost identical.
  Mine is the Model 70. (I'm too lazy to snap a pic of it) 
  The top of the line model 90 shown below had more refined and powerful guts.
  It was also crafted out of higher quality exotic wood veneers.
  Depending on condition, today an original will fetch $100 to $600 (Model 70),
  $400 to $1000 for the Model 90. In 1931 a new Model 90 sold for $69.99 .
  Potential collectors beware, there are many counterfeit copies of this radio out there.
  The giveaway is that most all of them have transistors inside.
  The originals have between 7 to 9 large tubes inside with a very distinctive layout.
  (which may be easily viewed from the open backside of the radio - as they had no rear cover.)


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Yeah, this gets pretty hot.
> 1924 AK Model 10 Receiver.
> Unrestored, still works fine.


 

 Very cool! I read your other posts,etc; and where did you get this? Do you know the specifications on it?  And how big is your collection?


----------



## livewire

Thanks, most of them I've picked up on ebay, some at local swap meets.
  As far as specs go: THD 50%, S/N ratio 50/50, I'm joking!
  I really dont know, things were quantified a little different back then.
   
*Available specs for the AK Model 10 might be: *
  Five tube radio set - 1 detector - 2 RF - 2 AF.
  AM band receiver utilizing TRF Neutrodyne circuitry
  capacitor tuned with two stages of RF amplification (radio frequency - antenna input) 
  and two stages of AF amplification (audio frequency - output to speaker) .
   
*Speaker Impedance: *2000 ohms
   
*Battery specs *- A & B batteries with the following input voltage taps: 
  6VDC, 45VDC, 67-1/2VDC, 90VDC, common ground.
   
  (no, it doesnt plug into the wall, not everybody had electricity in their houses back then)
   
  Collection size, medium? By no means is it anywhere near complete, as there are 1000's of models out there.
  Prolly in the hundreds, (>300?) I stopped counting ten years ago.
  I wish I had museum space to display them all. They are currently locked up in a warehouse.


----------



## cifani090

Im seeing the Pioneer 1250s go up in pricing on ebay, kinda high compared what they were earlier this year.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Im seeing the Pioneer 1250s go up in pricing on ebay, kinda high compared what they were earlier this year.


 


  
  I did notice the prices of Sansui AU-x17 on ePay keep going down, Kenwood and Yamaha stuff follow the same path. But Pioneer SX-1250, Sx-1280 and Sx-1980 keep the same price or going up. The high-end models still have high demand. Saggy economy really hurts the low and mid models. Did anyone follow Sansui and marantz price tracks?


----------



## Skylab

Sansui 9090 prices have also been going up.


----------



## Meewoo

It seems that Sansui 9090db or 9090 are very popular, they are "pioneer sx-1250" of  Sansui. Even Big G can't be that hot as 9090. I found  Sansui 5000x (a) were another surprise. It was around $150 four month ago, now is around $300.


----------



## BlueAlien

I really love the sound my Marantz 2052 has when powering my AKG 240mkii's. But, I was thinking about upgrading to k701's or k702's. How well could my receiver power them?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bluealien said:


> I really love the sound my Marantz 2052 has when powering my AKG 240mkii's. But, I was thinking about upgrading to k701's or k702's. How well could my receiver power them?


 


  The Marantz can power 701/702 easily.(My Marantz 1060 can easily power my Q701.) I think 701 is not hard to drive, the K240 sextette is more power hungry.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I did notice the prices of Sansui AU-x17 on ePay keep going down, Kenwood and Yamaha stuff follow the same path. But Pioneer SX-1250, Sx-1280 and Sx-1980 keep the same price or going up. The high-end models still have high demand. Saggy economy really hurts the low and mid models. Did anyone follow Sansui and marantz price tracks?


 

 I have a Marantz 2270 for sale, so i hope the market is hot
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I recently say a Sansui 22000 for $595 that needed some servicing done, if i would of only told my 2270 sooner
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would of killed just to look at it at that price.


----------



## Meewoo

The price of Marantz always goes up or keeps steady. Americans really like "three martini" sound.


----------



## Manyak

So I was wondering...are '70s amps any good at driving 600 Ohm cans with their discrete transistor designs?
   
  I'm thinking of trying out a pair of T1's but want to be sure my SPEC-1/SPEC-4 can drive them


----------



## BlueAlien

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> The Marantz can power 701/702 easily.(My Marantz 1060 can easily power my Q701.) I think 701 is not hard to drive, the K240 sextette is more power hungry.


 


  How good is the receiver at powering the 701's compared to lets say a Schiit LYR?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





manyak said:


> So I was wondering...are '70s amps any good at driving 600 Ohm cans with their discrete transistor designs?
> 
> I'm thinking of trying out a pair of T1's but want to be sure my SPEC-1/SPEC-4 can drive them


 

 It's not discrete design that makes the vintage stuff shine; it's the big huge transformer. If you look today's Samsung so called 1000 watts HT receiver, you will find out what I am talking about. I don't know the SPEC-1 design, so I couldn't talk about it. A pre-amp usually doesn't have juice to power up. My HK citation 11 has a very unique design which you can induce power- amp current back to pre-amp and power the speakers and headphones. If I don't connect the cable to do that, the headphone port has no power at all. If your Spec-1 is designed that way, you can easily drive T-1.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bluealien said:


> How good is the receiver at powering the 701's compared to lets say a Schiit LYR?


 


  I don't have Schiit LYR, but I have two home brewed tube headphone amps. I would say there are not much difference between my headphone amps and marantz 1060. Buy my 120 wpc Luxman r-1120a drives 701 with larger sound-stage.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





manyak said:


> So I was wondering...are '70s amps any good at driving 600 Ohm cans with their discrete transistor designs?
> 
> I'm thinking of trying out a pair of T1's but want to be sure my SPEC-1/SPEC-4 can drive them


 

 It's impossible to make a blanket statement about all amps of an era. There were quite a few of them and they weren't all classics.
   
  With that noted, the K240 Sextett sounds great on my old amps. As long as you get a high-quality amp of reasonable power output at the headphone jack, 600 Ohm phones should not be a problem - assuming the sound character of the headphones and amp are compatible.
   
  As for the K701, in my opinion it benefits from lushly lush power to take the edge off its treble. I haven't heard it on old Marantz gear but I'd bet it would sound fine.


----------



## Skylab

Exactly - all vintage amps sound different. The ones I have are certainly at least as good as the Lyr with headphones...but my vintage receivers are all TOTL models which have been serviced and in many cases recapped.


----------



## Manyak

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> It's not discrete design that makes the vintage stuff shine; it's the big huge transformer. If you look today's Samsung so called 1000 watts HT receiver, you will find out what I am talking about. I don't know the SPEC-1 design, so I couldn't talk about it. A pre-amp usually doesn't have juice to power up. My HK citation 11 has a very unique design which you can induce power- amp current back to pre-amp and power the speakers and headphones. If I don't connect the cable to do that, the headphone port has no power at all. If your Spec-1 is designed that way, you can easily drive T-1.


 

 Ok yeah, that's the same thing here. The SPEC-1 preamp has an RCA output to the SPEC-4 power amp, and then the speaker outputs are returned from the SPEC-4 to the SPEC-1, which then connects them to the headphone jack and an A/B speaker selector.
   
  But I dunno, I mean every half-decent modern receiver I've ever seen - including mine - has a large transformer and supply caps. If you're talking about those HT-in-a-box systems then yeah, those are more like 5-10W/chan and then 25W for the sub. I don't know what tricks they use to be able to advertise a 1kW RMS rating, but there's no way that's possible. Not on 2-inch drivers rated at 3Ω each, they'd blow out instantly. Not to mention it would pull around 1.3kW from the wall, meaning that if you combined one with a big plasma (~500W) you'd be overloading your wall socket.
   


  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> It's impossible to make a blanket statement about all amps of an era. There were quite a few of them and they weren't all classics.
> 
> With that noted, the K240 Sextett sounds great on my old amps. As long as you get a high-quality amp of reasonable power output at the headphone jack, 600 Ohm phones should not be a problem - assuming the sound character of the headphones and amp are compatible.
> 
> As for the K701, in my opinion it benefits from lushly lush power to take the edge off its treble. I haven't heard it on old Marantz gear but I'd bet it would sound fine.


 


  Well yeah there are always good and bad designs, but I was thinking maybe there was a difference in power handling between op-amp IC's and discrete transistors like there is between them and tubes. I guess not.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





manyak said:


> Ok yeah, that's the same thing here. The SPEC-1 preamp has an RCA output to the SPEC-4 power amp, and then the speaker outputs are returned from the SPEC-4 to the SPEC-1, which then connects them to the headphone jack and an A/B speaker selector.
> 
> But I dunno, I mean every half-decent modern receiver I've ever seen - including mine - has a large transformer and supply caps. If you're talking about those HT-in-a-box systems then yeah, those are more like 5-10W/chan and then 25W for the sub. I don't know what tricks they use to be able to advertise a 1kW RMS rating, but there's no way that's possible. Not on 2-inch drivers rated at 3Ω each, they'd blow out instantly. Not to mention it would pull around 1.3kW from the wall, meaning that if you combined one with a big plasma (~500W) you'd be overloading your wall socket.
> 
> Well yeah there are always good and bad designs, but I was thinking maybe there was a difference in power handling between op-amp IC's and discrete transistors like there is between them and tubes. I guess not.


 

 I am glad to know that Spec system uses power amp to power the headphone port. I think I will go after them in the future. If we only speak using receiver (or integrate amp) to drive headphone. As people said in the early thread , the vintage stuff put a resister between headphone port and speaker output,  modern stuff utilizes a independent headphone output. That why vintage stuff has enough juice to power up almost any headphones. If we talk about drive speaker also, I think modern stuff over $1000 will do good job also (sorry, I didn't own much those high price tag stuff, but based on  information online). But think about this, the price of Pioneer Sx-1250 in 1977 is around $900, and I saw Rshack had receiver for $70. If we transfer the 1977 dollar to today's, the pioneer sx-1250 is over $3000 tag. So basically, Pioneer sx-1250 is a very high-end audio equipment in 1977. If we compare over $2000 modern stuff to sx-1250, I think modern stuff might win (even though it doesn't have the look and touch to us). So I would say comparing $600 vintage stuff to $600 modern stuff today is not fair. $600 vintage stuff should at least compare to $1200 modern stuff.
  Yes, I was talking about Samsung audio stuff, I went to worstbuy and checked a1000 wpc Samsung receiver, it only weights around 20lb. I just don't know how company can rate it 1000wpc. Yes, modern high quality stuff has robust transformer, and the good vintage stuff we talk here normally has good transformer. I think discrete design just make stuff easier to fix.  Technology of audio stuff improves over time, MOSFET is the biggest advance. But if the modern headphone port design doesn't back to using the speaker output power as vintage stuff, I will stay with my old ones.


----------



## wje

OK, vintage gurus, It's time for me to take on another facet of the hobby by getting back into vintage gear.  Yes, I said "back into" because previously I had 3 fine Sansui receivers, but sold them prior to a move.  I just picked up a Sansui 881 last evening and a Pioneer SX-727 this past weekend.  Also, I'm pondering a SuperScope (Marantz) purchase for tomorrow.
   
  Anyway, in my travels, I came across this recent Craigslist ad in my area - the metro Washington, DC area.  Apparently, this guy is looking to sell off his collection.  As you can see by the various photographs, it's not a small collection.  I'm sorry the pictures are not a bit better - I'm dealing with the photos that were manipulated by Craigslist for posting on their site.
   

   

   

   

   
  Here's the verbage from the listing on Craigslist:
   
_*I have a huge collection I would like to sell either as a lot or by the piece. The more you buy the better the price. 95% are tube type. Brands are Eico, Fisher, JBL, EV, Sansui, Grommes, Heathkit, Harman Kardon, Knight, Sherwood, Lafayette etc... etc.... No Marantz or McIntosh, Tannoy or WE. (sorry). Email or call 410 ### ####. I am 1 and a half hours from DC or Baltimore. 2 and a half from Philly. 4 and a half from NY.*_


----------



## Paganini Alfredo

So... I just bought Skylab's Marantz 2275 and just started listening to it with my LCD's. And wow. Absolutely blows the roof off of my brain!!!

 As Jimmy Page said, "It makes it sound quite rude."


----------



## AuralRelations

Dear gods...that's quite the collection. I would love to get my hands on a vintage tube Fischer.


----------



## Meewoo

Didn't see many monster receivers in the collection. But those on metal rack look good! I thought the guy collected most tube stuff.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





wje said:


> Anyway, in my travels, I came across this recent Craigslist ad in my area - the metro Washington, DC area.  Apparently, this guy is looking to sell off his collection.  As you can see by the various photographs, it's not a small collection.  I'm sorry the pictures are not a bit better - I'm dealing with the photos that were manipulated by Craigslist for posting on their site.


 

 Holy cats. That's either dedication or a severe case of OCD. I wonder how he managed to accumulate them.


----------



## sluker

Pictures of the Toshiba SA-7100 in full flight, while testing out my new (to me obviously) Pioneer HPM-100 speakers.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Holy cats. That's either dedication or a severe case of OCD. I wonder how he managed to accumulate them.


 

 Hoarders: Audiophile Edition.


----------



## WarriorAnt

OMG.  When I saw this post I fainted.  Then when I got back up in my chair I fainted again.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Pictures of the Toshiba SA-7100 in full flight, while testing out my new (to me obviously) Pioneer HPM-100 speakers.


 

  
  Looks cool. I think it will sound beautifully. I had a chance to buy a Toshiba SA-7150 for $200 before, but I didn't like the digital tuner so I passed.
  Your SA-7100 looks really stunning. I have a Kenwood KR-8050 which has similar dial place.


----------



## sluker

Thanks,
  I think this was a great find. It was local (20 min away) only $100, and has required zero work. Plus, to my ears it sounds almost identical to the SX1250 with treble adjusted, when listening to the LCD-2's.
  
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Looks cool. I think it will sound beautifully. I had a chance to buy a Toshiba SA-7150 for $200 before, but I didn't like the digital tuner so I passed.
> Your SA-7100 looks really stunning. I have a Kenwood KR-8050 which has similar dial place.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


warriorant said:


> OMG.  When I saw this post I fainted.  Then when I got back up in my chair I fainted again.


 

 I'm beginning to wonder if the owner to be a repair tech and the stuff on the wood racks are donor units. There are a lot of duplicates there unless he's really acquired one of each minor circuit revision.


----------



## Trance88

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I thought I'd share this picture. It brought a smile to my face.


 

 Oooh thats quite the family photo! Big Daddy on the bottom, Mom, and 6 kids including the little twins at the top.


----------



## Manyak

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I am glad to know that Spec system uses power amp to power the headphone port. I think I will go after them in the future. If we only speak using receiver (or integrate amp) to drive headphone. As people said in the early thread , the vintage stuff put a resister between headphone port and speaker output,  modern stuff utilizes a independent headphone output. That why vintage stuff has enough juice to power up almost any headphones. If we talk about drive speaker also, I think modern stuff over $1000 will do good job also (sorry, I didn't own much those high price tag stuff, but based on  information online). But think about this, the price of Pioneer Sx-1250 in 1977 is around $900, and I saw Rshack had receiver for $70. If we transfer the 1977 dollar to today's, the pioneer sx-1250 is over $3000 tag. So basically, Pioneer sx-1250 is a very high-end audio equipment in 1977. If we compare over $2000 modern stuff to sx-1250, I think modern stuff might win (even though it doesn't have the look and touch to us). So I would say comparing $600 vintage stuff to $600 modern stuff today is not fair. $600 vintage stuff should at least compare to $1200 modern stuff.
> Yes, I was talking about Samsung audio stuff, I went to worstbuy and checked a1000 wpc Samsung receiver, it only weights around 20lb. I just don't know how company can rate it 1000wpc. Yes, modern high quality stuff has robust transformer, and the good vintage stuff we talk here normally has good transformer. I think discrete design just make stuff easier to fix.  Technology of audio stuff improves over time, MOSFET is the biggest advance. But if the modern headphone port design doesn't back to using the speaker output power as vintage stuff, I will stay with my old ones.


 

  
  That's actually what got me started with Vintage gear - the fact that the performance-per-dollar is _so_ much higher than new stuff. For the price I paid for my SPEC system, including performing a complete rebuilding/refurbishing of the amplifier, you wouldn't even be able to get a top-end HT receiver. A modern component system - especially one with a dual-mono Class A power amp like in the SPEC - would be out of the question.
   
  There's just one modern thing I miss having - a remote control.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





manyak said:


> That's actually what got me started with Vintage gear - the fact that the performance-per-dollar is _so_ much higher than new stuff. For the price I paid for my SPEC system, including performing a complete rebuilding/refurbishing of the amplifier, you wouldn't even be able to get a top-end HT receiver. A modern component system - especially one with a dual-mono Class A power amp like in the SPEC - would be out of the question.
> 
> *There's just one modern thing I miss having - a remote control*.


 


*Roll your own with an iPhone!*
   
  This has been posted in this thread before:
   
http://hackaday.com/2011/08/19/adding-wireless-controls-to-vintage-stereo-equipment/


----------



## Meewoo

I think touching your gears gives more satisfaction and emotion to you. If I have the remote, all controls are done through it, I can't feel my gears and pay close attention to it. And my gears wouldn't have emotion attached to me.


----------



## Manyak

Quote: 





livewire said:


> *Roll your own with an iPhone!*
> 
> This has been posted in this thread before:
> 
> http://hackaday.com/2011/08/19/adding-wireless-controls-to-vintage-stereo-equipment/


 

 That's pretty slick 
   
  Unfortunately I don't have nearly enough experience with circuit design to accomplish it. I'm also not sure how I'd motorize a bunch of levers while still retaining manual control.


----------



## cifani090

Thanks one hell of a collection, very early stuff from the 1960's. Probably some early Kenwoods in there.


----------



## BmWr75

You mean like this circa 1965 Kenwood KW-40 I finished restoring yesterday?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> You mean like this circa 1965 Kenwood KW-40 I finished restoring yesterday?


 

 Yup, pretty much. Thats what Kenwoods were, early in their life, were tube receivers.


----------



## livewire

That is SHWEET!
  From the dawn of FM multiplex....
   
  What brand and model output tubes is it running?
  I am assuming four of them in push-pull configuration?
  Didja do a total re-cap?


----------



## BmWr75

Yep, did a full recap.  It runs 4 6BQ5/EL84 in push/pull.  Am running a quad of The Tube Store's preferred series 7189s in it.
   
  This one is in very good cosmetic and electronic condition.  Sounds very nice after I got rid of the hum using the Hum Balance knob on the back panel.  You can read more about it here.


----------



## Meewoo

Hi, gurus, I picked a pair of 1977 hersey today but they have broken woofer domes. I never saw this kind of problem before. Though the woofers seem working, could anyone tell me what I should do? Do I have to replace whole woofer, or I can buy some repair kit. Thanks!!


----------



## treal512

Anyone able to describe the Kenwood KA-7100's sound at all? Maybe some signature comparisons?
   
  I found one locally in good condition for less than $100 and was thinking about checking it out.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Yep, did a full recap.  It runs 4 6BQ5/EL84 in push/pull.  Am running a quad of The Tube Store's preferred series 7189s in it.
> 
> This one is in very good cosmetic and electronic condition.  Sounds very nice after I got rid of the hum using the Hum Balance knob on the back panel.  You can read more about it here.


 

 How about a look inside?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Oh wait I went to your link and saw the photos.  Nice.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Anyone able to describe the Kenwood KA-7100's sound at all? Maybe some signature comparisons?
> 
> I found one locally in good condition for less than $100 and was thinking about checking it out.


 


  I had the KA-7100 before and liked it very much. The sound is warmer than Pioneer, but brighter than Marantz. It sounds like Sansui but lack the punchy bass of Sui. All in all, it's very musical and detailed, maybe a bit dark. Although I sold KA-7100, I still have Kr-9040 and KA-7300. I would recommend you to check it out and decide by your ears.


----------



## BmWr75

If the woofers sound OK, you can get replacement dust covers for the voice coils, try Parts Express, and install them yourself.
  
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Hi, gurus, I picked a pair of 1977 hersey today but they have broken woofer domes. I never saw this kind of problem before. Though the woofers seem working, could anyone tell me what I should do? Do I have to replace whole woofer, or I can buy some repair kit. Thanks!!


----------



## Meewoo

Thanks BmWr75!!
  Yes, the woofers are working, I will get the dust cover. I just don't know how could that happen, children stabbed them ( but the grills are intact) or just material deteriorated??


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Thanks BmWr75!!
> Yes, the woofers are working, I will get the dust cover. I just don't know how could that happen, children stabbed them ( but the grills are intact) or just material deteriorated??


 

 Nice speakers! What did you pay if you dont mind me asking?


----------



## Meewoo

I paid $280 for the speakers, Tandberg TR-2075 receiver, a Micro Seiki DD-24 turntable (need work) and a Aiwa AD-6550 cassette deck (need belt). The price was $150, but someone offered $300 when I was on the way to pick them up. I had to match the offer since I love the TR-2075 at glance. I drove 140 miles round trip and spent 3 hours on beautiful Sunday morning. I am getting a little happy now since I don't need to buy new woofers.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





paganini alfredo said:


> So... I just bought Skylab's Marantz 2275 and just started listening to it with my LCD's. And wow. Absolutely blows the roof off of my brain!!!As Jimmy Page said, "It makes it sound quite rude."


 


  Glad you're liking it


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I had the KA-7100 before and liked it very much. The sound is warmer than Pioneer, but brighter than Marantz. It sounds like Sansui but lack the punchy bass of Sui. All in all, it's very musical and detailed, maybe a bit dark. Although I sold KA-7100, I still have Kr-9040 and KA-7300. I would recommend you to check it out and decide by your ears.


 

 While at a local audio consignment/2nd hand store hereabouts, I came across a number of vintage recievers and amps quite sanely priced.  One of them is a 1980 Kenwood KA-8100 and another is a Sansui 8080, both for less than $250 each...further sneaking revealed a few other possible gems: a Harman Kardon 1680, Marantz 4400 and a god-almighty pristine (no fingerprints on the glossy faceplate, even) Fisher CA-880 integrated.
   
  This thread is nearing 3000 posts..probably one or more of them have opined out on those I just mentioned, but I am too ADHD addled to sleuth through all of them so would someone begrudge me an opinon or a few on whether I gots a looker or a sleeper right under my nose?  I thought the Sansui 8080 might be one of those...but the others?
   
  My SX-1250 purchase at $480 is telling me there is hope yet for a few more bargains....(wouldn't mind a role in the "Hoarders: Audiophile Edition" TV show now that I also have a H.H. Scott 1960 tube unit I have not yet positively identified, but it has all the tubes intact (Telefunkens, Mullards).  Haven't plugged it in yet, but I think it is one of their 22 watt integrateds based on a H.H. Scott catalog viewing).


----------



## sepinho

You guys! I've been using my semi-vintage Denon PMA260 for ages as a headphone amp, but now you got me hooked on those gorgeous 1970-198X receivers. I already have a Fisher CA-120 lying around that unfortunately needs repairing and now I have both a harman kardon 330b and a Kenwood KR4050 incoming, hoping that they'll do just as good a job driving my Fostex T50RP, AKG K340 and other, less demanding headphones.
   
  Will be posting pictures and impressions as soon as I have them!


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





sepinho said:


> You guys! I've been using my semi-vintage Denon PMA260 for ages as a headphone amp, but now you got me hooked on those gorgeous 1970-198X receivers. I already have a Fisher CA-120 lying around that unfortunately needs repairing and now I have both a harman kardon 330b and a Kenwood KR4050 incoming, hoping that they'll do just as good a job driving my Fostex T50RP, AKG K340 and other, less demanding headphones.
> 
> Will be posting pictures and impressions as soon as I have them!


 
   
  I've heard good things about the Harmon Kardon 330 A/B/C's, Considering how much I love the 730 I've been tempted to pick one up just to see. Ahh, who I'm kidding, I want to hear one of each plus the 430, 630 and 930 as well.


----------



## sepinho

My wife thinks I'm nuts, because I've bought three amps in the last week. That is in addition to aforementioned Denon and a plethora of dedicated headphone amps.
   
  AFAIK, the H/K 330C is actually a step down from the A and B. At least that's what the vintage gurus over at hifi-forum.de are claiming. Anyway, seeing how prices on ebay.com are way lower than on ebay.de, I guess you could just try all of them.


----------



## elnero

The 730 has put a big smile on my face so I'm not in any particular rush for new HK gear. I've been keeping my eyes open for any particularly good deals but I'm most interested in trying a Sansui right now. Keeping an eye out for a 505 or 555A.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


wharfrat said:


> My SX-1250 purchase at $480 is telling me there is hope yet for a few more bargains....(wouldn't mind a role in the "Hoarders: Audiophile Edition" TV show now that I also have a H.H. Scott 1960 tube unit I have not yet positively identified, but it has all the tubes intact (Telefunkens, Mullards).  Haven't plugged it in yet, but I think it is one of their 22 watt integrateds based on a H.H. Scott catalog viewing).


 

 The name will likely be on the lower left of the faceplate in small print, and again near one corner of the backplate _(*edit:* Just doublechecked: Nope, it's only on the faceplate)_. I've found the printing on my Scott's backplate to not be tenacious (it's easily scratched off), although I don't know if it's because I was unlucky enough to get a unit that was indifferently silkscreened or if that's just how H.H. Scott produced 'em at the time.
   
  I'm guessing by your description that it's either a 222 B or 222 C. Post a photo - if it looks like mine, you've got a 222 C.
   
  Scott, like Fisher and others, shipped their products stuffed full of own-branded tubes, although of course those are just rebadged tubes produced by major tube manufacturers.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> While at a local audio consignment/2nd hand store hereabouts, I came across a number of vintage recievers and amps quite sanely priced.  One of them is a 1980 Kenwood KA-8100 and another is a Sansui 8080, both for less than $250 each...further sneaking revealed a few other possible gems: a Harman Kardon 1680, Marantz 4400 and a god-almighty pristine (no fingerprints on the glossy faceplate, even) Fisher CA-880 integrated.
> 
> This thread is nearing 3000 posts..probably one or more of them have opined out on those I just mentioned, but I am too ADHD addled to sleuth through all of them so would someone begrudge me an opinon or a few on whether I gots a looker or a sleeper right under my nose?  I thought the Sansui 8080 might be one of those...but the others?
> 
> My SX-1250 purchase at $480 is telling me there is hope yet for a few more bargains....(wouldn't mind a role in the "Hoarders: Audiophile Edition" TV show now that I also have a H.H. Scott 1960 tube unit I have not yet positively identified, but it has all the tubes intact (Telefunkens, Mullards).  Haven't plugged it in yet, but I think it is one of their 22 watt integrateds based on a H.H. Scott catalog viewing).


 



 There's a place on Vashon Island that sells audio gear? Or did you go to Hawthorne Stereo? They have reasonable prices (not thrift store prices though) and nice stuff.


----------



## singh

DAMN, the price of a like new piece of SA-9800 !! 
   
  this is insane ..and there are still 4 days to the auction's end!!


----------



## Skylab

Scott, that HP looks VERY nice!  How's it sounding?


----------



## BmWr75

Rob,
   
  It sounds great to me.  Especially after I learned what the Hum Balance pot on the rear panel does.....it gets rid of hum.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've got one more capacitor to replace (seems like I always miss at least one in the order).  Should have it finished this weekend and will start listening to it much more.


----------



## Wharfrat

@palmfish: yeah it was Hawthorne Stereo...nice folks and nice stuff, a couple of happy purchases from them over the past 2 years.
If you beat me to the purchase of a choice piece of vintage gear from them, I will ask ya to bring it to a local meet (and vice versa, LOL)

@ardgedee: I think u got it pretty close....a 222 of some sort. The faceplate is a replacement one that looks a lot like the original, but there is no model number. The guy who gave it to me did a pretty good job of machining it and thinks the original is somewhere in his basement.
How does the 222 sound, assuming it still works for you?

Will post pics since I cannot find any internals of a 222 on the net (BTW, about time I learned how to do that anyhow...got a bit of gear to offload before buying some vintage babies and a LCD and HE 5/600...so pic posting is a must).

Anybody got an inkling on the SQ of the units I mentioned? Still awaiting replies to an earlier post related to McIntosh gear for can listening possibilities..


----------



## ardgedee

Wharfrat: Try looking at the underside of the unit. There should be a partial wiring diagram with tubes labeled, and possibly the model ID.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





singh said:


> DAMN, the price of a like new piece of SA-9800 !!
> 
> this is insane ..and there are still 4 days to the auction's end!!


 


  That's nothing, you should have seen the Marantz 2600, it sold for 26K Euros.  Showroom condition, with box, manual and the cheap wood case with box!


----------



## 5aces

Got the Yamaha C-1 Preamplifer back from the shop.
Needed two .50 cent resistors on the tape circuit buffer board to get one channel back up.
Cleaned all controls and switches.

What does 5aces do?
Crank the volume *ALL* the way to the right using the matching Yamaha B-1 Power Amplifier.
The JBL L-112 Speakers will take 300 W 24/7,which is the peak of the B-1 160W RMS Amp.
Nothing blows up up,just sublime sound...WoW (thanks Claudio)

Listened to Rod Stewart / 1975-Atlantic Crossing/ 1976-A Night On The Town/1981-Tonight I'm Yours/Trilogy (Remastered 2000) 3-CD set to warm it up, then it was game on.
Turned on the Sansui AU 20000 as a Preamplifier for the Pioneer M22 and jacked it to 1.5 W on the Klipsch Heresy.
Same for the Sansui CA 2000 Preamplifier pushing the Sansui BA 2000 Power Amplifier running the Vandersteen floorstands.

3-preamps/3-power amps/3 sets of rock speakers all jamming at once.
The Yamaha set dominates them all.

  
*Yes,it is Girrrl approved*


----------



## Meewoo

@5aces
  I must say that your top or second to top model stuff are much sexier than the girl who approves your stuff!!!


----------



## cifani090

Sold my Marantz 2270 on da bay for $410, with $49.98 shipping


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The price for the 2285 I just got?  No, it was more.  But I am selling the 2275 for less than I paid


 

 You're finally selling the 2275 I've been pining over, and I spent my 2275 fund on a pair of speakers at RMAF.  What are the chances of that?  
   
  And I looked for you everywhere at RMAF and never found you.  Sorry I missed you.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> You're finally selling the 2275 I've been pining over, and I spent my 2275 fund on a pair of speakers at RMAF.  What are the chances of that?
> 
> And I looked for you everywhere at RMAF and never found you.  Sorry I missed you.


 


  What speakers did you get?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> You're finally selling the 2275 I've been pining over, and I spent my 2275 fund on a pair of speakers at RMAF.  What are the chances of that?
> 
> And I looked for you everywhere at RMAF and never found you.  Sorry I missed you.


 


  Man, I am so bummed we did not meet. It's funny, I spent several hours in CanJam during the Beer Social, but met only a few people, like Warp08 and Musicman59, which was cool - just wish it had been more.
   
  But yeah - what speakers?  Do tell!


----------



## wotts

I've been keeping my eye open for a Marantz unit for quite some time, and Tuesday, I finally picked one up. It is a 2265B found in my local CL.Pots were cleaned and the original wood case was included.
   

   
  I've only had my W1000X hooked up so far, and it sounds great. I'm going to pop the cover this weekend to check the caps. Here's the obligatory low light shot: (there is an Emotiva XDA-1 hiding underneath the 2265B)
[size=11pt] [/size]


----------



## ardgedee

Looks great, wotts -- welcome to team vintage! I'd bet your T1 will sound awesome on that thing.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, Wotts!


----------



## moodyrn

Nice looking receiver; congrats. On a sad note, an excellent condition pioneer sx1250 just slipped through my fingers. It went for 150.00 on cl and also came with the manual.


----------



## Skylab

SX-1250 for $150?  I bet that person had 100 emails in the first 5 mins.  Wow.
   
  There is a nice looking SX-1980 on Audiogon for $1600 obo that is supposed to have been serviced/restored.  The seller has zero feedback though and when I asked him about the restore job he didn't know anything more than what was posted on the Agon ad. Still, nice price for a serviced SX-1980.


----------



## BmWr75

The last capacitor came in the mail today. Installed it and the restoration is complete (unless I need to replace those diodes asked about in another thread). Listening to Larry Carlson via Beyerdynamic DT-770/600 ohm cans now. Sweet!!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Nice!  She's a beauty!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The last capacitor came in the mail today. Installed it and the restoration is complete (unless I need to replace those diodes asked about in another thread). Listening to Larry Carlson via Beyerdynamic DT-770/600 ohm cans now. Sweet!!!!!!


 


  Beautiful.  I like that "blend" know in the upper left.  what does it do exactly?


----------



## BmWr75

It is a stereo/mono blend knob.  Stereo to the far left, mono to the far right.  Am not sure why a pot might be more useful than just having a 2-position switch.  Don't have a owner's manual for this one.
   
  EDIT - got to thinking how this knob might be used with conventional speakers.  If the speakers were placed such that no stereo imaging was occurring, the blend knob might help anchor a center image by blending towards mono. - EDIT


----------



## wotts

Quote:


ardgedee said:


> Looks great, wotts -- welcome to team vintage! I'd bet your T1 will sound awesome on that thing.


 

 I'm going to try them when I get back home tonight. I can't wait!
  
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very nice, Wotts!


 

 Thanks!
   
   
   
  On a side note, I found an ad for a Sansui 9090db for $150, but it needs work. I'm up to the task, but wasn't sure if it was still a good price.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> SX-1250 for $150?  I bet that person had 100 emails in the first 5 mins.  Wow.


 
  And another 1250 popped up a few hours after that one sold for 950.00. What a coincidence. I bet that's the same one. The seller hadn't even posted pics yet. If that's the case, it's a shame. I wouldn't have looked at it as an opportunity to make money. It would have been used for personal enjoyment. Tomorrow I'm doing a shoot out with another member who have a peak/volcano and a liquid fire. New vs Old haha. I know I don't stand a chance, but it will be interesting to see how close I can come. I'm really looking forward to listening to the latest high end offerings.
   
   
  The kenwood looks really sweet BmWr75. It looks so different but very elegant. I'm also a fan of the tubes it uses.


----------



## BmWr75

@Skylab
   
  Looks like the 1957 Chevy Belair of tube amps to me, kind of flashy looking.


----------



## Skylab

Totally! Great description.  I think it's a very cool look.


----------



## Manyak

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> @5aces
> I must say that your top or second to top model stuff are much sexier than the girl who approves your stuff!!!


 


  I am not geek enough. I'd take the girl.


----------



## wotts

x2

  
  Quote: 





manyak said:


> I am not geek enough. I'd take the girl.


----------



## cifani090

I thought i knew of a thread that showed gear that was in movies, or it might of been AudioKarama. Anyways here this gear is in Colombiana, and it looks like the silver stuff is Pioneer SPEC. Not 100% sure...
   

   

   
  ADDED NEW ONE;


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I thought i knew of a thread that showed gear that was in movies, or it might of been AudioKarama. Anyways here this gear is in Colombiana, and it looks like the silver stuff is Pioneer SPEC. Not 100% sure...


 

 What audio gear? I don't see any...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


bmwr75 said:


> It is a stereo/mono blend knob.  Stereo to the far left, mono to the far right.  Am not sure why a pot might be more useful than just having a 2-position switch.  Don't have a owner's manual for this one.
> 
> EDIT - got to thinking how this knob might be used with conventional speakers.  If the speakers were placed such that no stereo imaging was occurring, the blend knob might help anchor a center image by blending towards mono. - EDIT


 
   
  For overly-separated stereo recordings (half the performers are on the left side, half are on the right, the soloist is mono -- an irritatingly common stereo mastering formula up through the late 60s) you could blend the channels to reduce the ping-ponging to less distracting levels. It's not quite as technologically fancy as the crosstalk-plus-milleseconds-delay units that Meier and Headroom use, but it's not as far away as you'd think.
   
  Which leads to the possibly-interesting fact that most stereo amplifiers of the era were designed to be used either as single-room stereos or multi-room mono amplifiers. Channels were usually marked A and B (and sometimes C) on the hookups, and sometimes on the control panel (in my listening room: on the Scott and Harmon-Kardon, the channels are uniformly referred to as A and B on the front; on The Fisher, they're Left and Right for most dials but A and B on the channel Mode Selector switch). One speaker could be in the living room, the other, say, in the dining room. The C channel, on those amps that had it, was a summed mono channel so you could have a stereo in the living room and an extension speaker in the dining room. (These days you could use it as a line out to a subwoofer for a single-room 3-channel set up. just sayin')
   
  So most amps had some kind of channel management control. The cheapest only had simple stereo/mono switches. Better ones stereo/mono/channel sum/channel reverse switches - so that you could wire up your system any old way and still have some chance of getting a credible stereo image out of it, or so that you could make badly-mastered recordings a little more listenable. The Fisher Corp.'s amps had a Reverb loop (which, these days, we would label a Pre Out / Amp In loop) into which you could plug their outboard reverb box. The fancier preamps and integrateds had a stereo blend knob in addition to mode selection, while the more economical ones only had switches.


----------



## Meewoo

Wow, that's audio conference stuff!! Thanks lot for sharing your knowledge!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

[size=medium]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/business/edgar-m-villchur-hi-fi-innovator-dies-at-94.html
   
     Edgar M. Villchur.   He didn't make receivers but innovated vintage speaker design. ​[/size]


----------



## livewire

RIP Sir.
   
  Wow! He was the dude who started Acoustic Research of AR-1 speaker fame.
  He also invented the belt-drive turntable. I didnt know that. Cool stuff!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





livewire said:


> RIP Sir.
> 
> Wow! He was the dude who started Acoustic Research of AR-1 speaker fame.
> He also invented the belt-drive turntable. I didnt know that. Cool stuff!


 

 In many ways Edgar was "The Man".


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


warriorant said:


> In many ways Edgar was "The Man".


 

 ...and Henry Kloss his student. Some amazing times back in the day, I'm sure.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> ...and Henry Kloss his student. Some amazing times back in the day, I'm sure.


 

 Most of these guys forgotten, taken for granted, and unheard of.  Sometimes I'm feel like writing a book about that era in Audio...


----------



## Wharfrat

And....hearing aids!  Come to think of it...without his contributions there, who knows what IEMs would be like now.  If you ever remember seeing deaf children in public school classrooms for the disabled, they had to wear earplugs the size of a thumb and be driven by a miniture driver the size of a Hershey's Kiss and had to wear strapped to their chests a microphone the size of an iPod but 3 times as heavy.  To those unfamiliar with history of the Deaf Community, hearing aids perpetuated the belief that speech training would enable Deaf kids to learn to read and write just like hearing kids and served to suppress American Sign Language as a mode of communication. 
   
  Not to knock his contributions to audiophiles, which I am certainly grateful for, but it struck me at a core level since I have three uncles who grew up before hearing aids became truly widespread and they were very proud of their signing and English writing skills even though they never learned to use sound as a form of communication.
   
  Ah...the butterfly effect.....


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Tomorrow I'm doing a shoot out with another member who have a peak/volcano and a liquid fire. New vs Old haha. I know I don't stand a chance, but it will be interesting to see how close I can come. I'm really looking forward to listening to the latest high end offerings.


 


  Well I'm back from the new vs old shoot out with Brent(headfi user The Wuss). First he tried the he-6 with the speaker taps from the fisher and said "wow, I've never head the he-6 sound like this before." Then he moved on the the pioneer sx1010. I told him don't worry about the pigtail, it's not needed with the pioneer. His jaw literally dropped to the floor. He said this is the best I've ever heard the he-6 and it completely changed his opinion about them. He was really impressed with it and have become a vintage fan. He's starting a new thread about his impressions. I'll post a link here when it's up. He thought the pioneer was really close the his high end amps and said other than those two amps, it was the best headphone amp he ever listened to. He's now on the look out for something from the sx line. Both the peak and liquid fire are truly amazing amps. They are the best I've heard so far. I would rate the peak a head of the wa22, and the liquid fire is even better. The pioneer sounded killer with the lcd-2's as well.


----------



## Skylab

Ha! Nice, Moodyrn.  No surprise to the regulars of this thread of course


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah I'm really preaching to the choir in this thread. LOL
   
   
  Here's a link to the the impression thread Brent started.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/576869/the-vintage-vs-new-shoot-out-in-birmingham-oct-20-2011


----------



## sepinho

There they are: harman kardon 330B and Kenwood KR-4050. The h/k works flawlessly, the Kenwood needs a thorough cleaning of its innards. And both need an extensive scrubbing.


----------



## elnero

Quote: 





sepinho said:


> There they are: harman kardon 330B and Kenwood KR-4050. The h/k works flawlessly, the Kenwood needs a thorough cleaning of its innards. And both need an extensive scrubbing.


 

 And how do they sound?


----------



## sepinho

I've only had an hour with the h/k so far, so take my first impressions with a grain of salt. That being said, it's fairly warm-sounding with my Grados.
   
  The Kenwood has to be turned to almost noon before it starts picking up on the left channel and there's still a lot of crackling and hum, so it's hard to judge. Listening to A Tribe Called Quest though, bass was really punchy and precise, so I have high hopes.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


moodyrn said:


> Well I'm back from the new vs old shoot out with Brent(headfi user The Wuss). First he tried the he-6 with the speaker taps from the fisher and said "wow, I've never head the he-6 sound like this before." Then he moved on the the pioneer sx1010. I told him don't worry about the pigtail, it's not needed with the pioneer. His jaw literally dropped to the floor. He said this is the best I've ever heard the he-6 and it completely changed his opinion about them.


 

 At the Detroit meetup this summer, I got to compare my vintage receivers -> HE-6 combinations to musicman59's Pass Aleph -> HE-6 and Ray Samuels' Dark Star -> HE6 combinations.
   
  My setup wasn't the equal of theirs, but it was considerably closer in quality than I had expected. No small percentage of the difference could also be attributed to the accessories and source equipment upstream from the amplifiers of our respective setups (musicman59 has an excellent DAC, exotic cables and TOTL power conditioners, Ray had the Boulder CD player that he was also using in his demos at RAMF).
   
  It's left me far happier with my setup than I had expected to be. A well-chosen vintage amp can provide excellent bang for the buck.


----------



## moodyrn

Last night convinced me that I wasn't crazy when I got rid of my dedicated headphone amps. Brent told me that the vintage amps I had sounded better than every amp he owned before the ones he have now, and some of those were highly regarded expensive headphone amps. It's a good thing I didn't bring the kenwood. I like it quiet a bit better than the pioneer, which has led me to put it up on cl. I just don't use it much anymore.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> It's a good thing I didn't bring the kenwood. I like it quiet a bit better than the pioneer, which has led me to put it up on cl. I just don't use it much anymore.


 

 In which category? I remembered you liked Pionny a lot!! I got a part refurbished SX-1010 too, and I prefer it to SX-1250. Of course, my SA-9100 sounds like SX-1010 too. Somehow, I like Rotel and Kenwood more than Pionny. Of course, the Luxman is my favorite, Yammy is second. I got a marantz 1060, it sounds sweet, but I haven't done extensive listening. I am waiting for my Marantz 240 coming back from repair shop. So marantz is not on my ranking list.


----------



## moodyrn

I still love the pioneer a lot. I been racking brain trying to find uses for it. It has gone from my bedroom to my main home theater setup and to both of my vintage speaker rigs. I just don't have room or space for it since it's not used much. I would hate to put it in an attic and would just rather sell it to let someone else enjoy it. Sonically, it's on the same level as the kenwood. The pioneer has a little wider sound stage, but it's deeper on the kenwood which I like.
   
  The kenwood is also smoother sounding with a touch of warmth. The mids sound more organic as well. The kenwood is also a better match for my bright sounding klipsch. They can come off a tad analytical with the pioneer as well as my he-6. They benefit from the smoothness and touch of warmth of the kenwood. But I still really love the pioneer. I think it's neutrality at it's best. My speakers and headphones just have more synergy with the kenwood though. After finally listening to the lcd-2's with it, I know I definitely would prefer the pioneer to the kenwood. But I don't own those and have no plans to in the future.


----------



## Meewoo

I see, Your observation is same as me. Now I know Pionny is really good synergy to LCD-2. Base on how many people owns LCD-2, I think Pionny will be in increasing demand.
   
  By the way, what Klipsch do you have? My KG4.5 and Heresy are not bright at all, the KG 4.5 even has boomy bass. My KEF q-90 is neutral speaker with tight bass.


----------



## moodyrn

I agree about the kg series. I have the kg-4 and they are not bright. I even replace the diaphram with bob crites titanium diaphams and they still are not bright. The bass can be boomy. I placed mine closer to the rear wall and that did help. But for some reason, they really love tubes. They sound really good with my fisher. I mean really good. But my other klipsch are the epic cf-2's, and they are not as bright as the current production klipsch. But they are just a tad bright and it shows with the pioneer. Not that they sound overly bright with the pioneer. They just sound a tad analytical. They sound really smooth with the kenwood though.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I thought i knew of a thread that showed gear that was in movies, or it might of been AudioKarama. Anyways here this gear is in Colombiana, and it looks like the silver stuff is Pioneer SPEC. Not 100% sure...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  While looking at the gear and briefly glancing to my left, did she stab this guy or clunk him in the head?!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





trance88 said:


> Oooh thats quite the family photo! Big Daddy on the bottom, Mom, and 6 kids including the little twins at the top.


 


  My goodness! What a beautiful stack! Anyone come back with the estimated weight?


----------



## wotts

I was quite impressed at the sound from your setup, Art. I agree with your impression of the Aleph (I ended up buying it!). I thought a lot about the Fisher, but wasn't sure it would be the best match for the HE-6. I have yet to try the HE-s on my Marantz. Need to dig out the stock cable.
   
  I opted for the recently purchased 2265B after listening to a 2230B while house sitting a few months ago. I hadn't found one at all, but when I saw the 2265B pop up for $150, I couldn't pass it up.

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> At the Detroit meetup this summer, I got to compare my vintage receivers -> HE-6 combinations to musicman59's Pass Aleph -> HE-6 and Ray Samuels' Dark Star -> HE6 combinations.
> 
> My setup wasn't the equal of theirs, but it was considerably closer in quality than I had expected. No small percentage of the difference could also be attributed to the accessories and source equipment upstream from the amplifiers of our respective setups (musicman59 has an excellent DAC, exotic cables and TOTL power conditioners, Ray had the Boulder CD player that he was also using in his demos at RAMF).
> ...


----------



## Skylab

I prefer the Pioneers with the LCD-2, but I like the warmer Marantz with the HE-6.  My Pioneer SX-1250 and 1980 are very neutral sounding, with just maybe a slight touch of warmth in the lower mids, but with a very clear and extended treble and very powerful bass.  My Marantz 2275 and now 2285 are much warmer overall with even a little treble reticence.  Voiced that way for a reason I am sure. They were trying to make them sound tube-like.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





silent one said:


> While looking at the gear and briefly glancing to my left, did she stab this guy or clunk him in the head?!


 

 Clunk, Columbiana was a good movie, so i recommend it if your going to finish off that popcorn


----------



## treal512

With all this talk of the TOTL SX series being such a great match for the LCD2, how does the 1010 compare with the 1250? What about the 1050? Are they all similar in signature? I really need to clean my 650.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> With all this talk of the TOTL SX series being such a great match for the LCD2, how does the 1010 compare with the 1250? What about the 1050? Are they all similar in signature? I really need to clean my 650.


 

 The 1250 is the best out of them all


----------



## moodyrn

All of the higher end sx line are great. It's just a matter of preference. Many prefer the 1250 and a lot prefer the 1010 as well. There's a member here who also prefers the 1010 over the 1250. I would love to compare both side by side. But of course the 1980 is the king of the sx line.


----------



## Skylab

I do prefer the SX-1980 over the SX-1250, but only by the narrowest of margins.  They actually sound very similar to me.


----------



## moodyrn

That's interesting. So would you say the only real difference is power and not sound quality?
   
  Maybe Meewoo could chime in and tell us the sonic differences between the 1250 and 1010.
   
  The two person meet I went to over the weekend really showed me how special vintage gear can be. Both tubes and solid state.


----------



## Skylab

The SX-1980 does have considerably more power, and has a nicer sounding phono stage with some nice features like selectable impedance and capacitance.  But with line level sources, and with efficient speakers that do not need the extra power, the SX-1250 and SX-1980 are fairly similar sounding, with the 1980 perhaps being just a bit more detailed.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I know the Sansui AU-505 integrated amplifier isn't on the radar as a top tier unit and is most likely not considered a prime piece of vintage gear to drive the LCD-2's.  That was certainly my thinking until I purchased one and plugged in my LCD-2.  I found it to be scary good. I don't understand why but it has the power to drive the LCD-2.   When I first started listening to it I really had to come to terms with the fact that although it does not quite have the finesse of my $1K SS amp it get very close and in fact so close that I had a mental battle over wether it was better to sell the 1K SS amp, pocket the $900 difference and live with the new found windfall.  I am addicted though to that 1% finesse so I'm keeping my high end amp.  I am going to have the 505 restored with high quality components by a local vintage guru.  My other pieces of vintage gear may go though but the 505 is staying.    So don't fear the lower Sansui units they may gain your respect if you try them.


----------



## moodyrn

I wouldn't be surprised if the restore gets you that 1% that is lacking compared to your other amp. I also wouldn't be surprised if after the restore, you might be saying the other amp lacks the 1% compared to the sansui.


----------



## sluker

X2
  My AU717 is my go to amp for all of my cans except for the LCD-2's and that's only because I have an SX1250 which pairs better. But in a pinch, with a touch of tone control, the AU717 is damn close.
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know the Sansui AU-505 integrated amplifier isn't on the radar as a top tier unit and is most likely not considered a prime piece of vintage gear to drive the LCD-2's.  That was certainly my thinking until I purchased one and plugged in my LCD-2.  I found it to be scary good. I don't understand why but it has the power to drive the LCD-2.   When I first started listening to it I really had to come to terms with the fact that although it does not quite have the finesse of my $1K SS amp it get very close and in fact so close that I had a mental battle over wether it was better to sell the 1K SS amp, pocket the $900 difference and live with the new found windfall.  I am addicted though to that 1% finesse so I'm keeping my high end amp.  I am going to have the 505 restored with high quality components by a local vintage guru.  My other pieces of vintage gear may go though but the 505 is staying.    So don't fear the lower Sansui units they may gain your respect if you try them.


----------



## treal512

I only ask because I've seen the 1010 and 1050 locally FS on CL, but never a 1250 or 1980. Not even as far out as Houston or Dallas. And judging by the ePay prices, these people have either jumped on the bandwagon and lost their mind in pricing these units or these prices are here to stay. I'm happy with my HK730, but it would be nice to have something to compliment it in terms of SQ since the HK is very warm.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I only ask because I've seen the 1010 and 1050 locally FS on CL, but never a 1250 or 1980. Not even as far out as Houston or Dallas. And judging by the ePay prices, these people have either jumped on the bandwagon and lost their mind in pricing these units or these prices are here to stay. I'm happy with my HK730, but it would be nice to have something to compliment it in terms of SQ since the HK is very warm.


 

 I have 1010, 1050 and 1250, I couldn't tell the difference between 1050 and 1250. They share the same tone, the 1050 just a little shy of power and most important, 1250 has engraved letter on face. People in AK also say models from 950 are almost same. I prefer 1010 to x50 line because 1010 is a little warmer and more smooth to me. But since you have HK730, you might want to try neutral 1050. To my ears, HK 730 sounds like 1010 with a little warmer sound and authentic bass. But 1010 has airy, quick response sound, plus a little wider sound-stage. -They all have very dynamic sound, but HK730 is more smooth to me.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the restore gets you that 1% that is lacking compared to your other amp. I also wouldn't be surprised if after the restore, you might be saying the other amp lacks the 1% compared to the sansui.


 

 About restore, I just learned not all recapping things are good. I bought a Luxman R-1120 restored by AK member, and I found it sound much brighter than my other Luxman stuff. And a audiophile friend told me that carefully choosing caps is important, it is very easy for recapping stuff to sound brighter.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> About restore, I just learned not all recapping things are good. I bought a Luxman R-1120 restored by AK member, and I found it sound much brighter than my other Luxman stuff. And a audiophile friend told me that carefully choosing caps is important, it is very easy for recapping stuff to sound brighter.


 


  This is also my feeling which is why I'm going to have a long dialogue with the guy who restores my 505.  Lucky for me has a great deal of knowledge with high end caps. I'll probably also research every cap in the unit before I have it recapped.


----------



## Wharfrat

4 argedee:  Checked my H.H. Scott vintage unit against the pixes of yours.  There are a few differences, most notably there is a metal unit (capacitator?) to the right of the location of the 2 6U8/6GB8 tubes that are pictured in the middle of your unit and on my unit those two tubes are labelled as 6BL8 (probably similiar to those on yours). 
   
  So it is not a 222C.  The label on the case bottom shows its a 222, tho...gonna see if I can find pixes or a schematic of the innards of a 222B.  Onward thru the fog....


----------



## ardgedee

The 222 series went up to D, I believe. Of the 222 models, only C and D had headphone jacks. The table of 200-series models on the HHScott fan site might help you figure it out. (Edit: If the case says "222" and there's no headphone jack on the front panel, it's probably a 222 A, which only received its A designation retroactively after the 222 B shipped.)
   
  There are schematics of most of the old Scotts and Fishers floating around and easy to find, so if you can read wiring diagrams that may help too.
   
  Sorry I haven't been able to give you a listening report yet; I had mine refurbished and picked it up from repair shortly before moving, and haven't had the opportunity yet to try it out (3 months later! argh!).


----------



## Wharfrat

Thanks much, ardgedee!  Its a 222B!....but, gol' dang, no headphone jack!  It needs a good cleaning job and an innards review..I'll take it to Hawthorne Stereo in Seattle.  They gots a guy who knows something or two about these vintage tubers and can do repair work...I might have it recapped and the solders redone if needed and will likely be in the market for replacement tubes since a few look like they've had better days.
   
  I just bought a 4 pin XLR speaker tap adapter made by HiFlight and just acquired from Treal512 a few days ago...now looking around for a HE-5 cable with a 4 pin male XLR termination or an adapter for a 1/4" (6.3mm) Neutrik jack connected to a male 4 pin.  Can't seem to find one without the usual 3-pin XLRs....I intend to use that with the speaker taps on the 222B....presumably it will have enough tube output power to fire up a pair of orthos.  Might poke Steve Eddy in the ribs for a mod.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Clunk, Columbiana was a good movie, so i recommend it if your going to finish off that popcorn


 


  Thanks! I'll look it up as a rental (Columbiana) as I hadn't heard of it before.


----------



## TheWuss

In our recent mini-meet, I really dug Moodyrn's Pioneer SX1010.
  So, he's agreed to let me to audition it in my home...
   
  It's a surrealistic blending of old and new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Cambridge iD100 dock -->  Musical Fidelity M1 DAC -->  Pioneer SX1010 -->  HifiMAN HE-6
   
  So far, I'm liking what I hear...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


wharfrat said:


> Thanks much, ardgedee!  Its a 222B!....but, gol' dang, no headphone jack!
> 
> _[snip]_
> 
> I just bought a 4 pin XLR speaker tap adapter made by HiFlight and just acquired from Treal512 a few days ago...now looking around for a HE-5 cable with a 4 pin male XLR termination or an adapter for a 1/4" (6.3mm) Neutrik jack connected to a male 4 pin.  Can't seem to find one without the usual 3-pin XLRs....I intend to use that with the speaker taps on the 222B....presumably it will have enough tube output power to fire up a pair of orthos.  Might poke Steve Eddy in the ribs for a mod.


 
   
  Make sure you aren't plugging your headphone directly into the speaker taps without some kind of intermediary (usually a resistor of appropriate value connected in parallel) in the way. The impedance mismatch can harm the transformer.
   
  When you haul the amp in to your tech, talk to him about how you intend to use the amp, and he might be able to build you an adaptor box with a TRS socket. It's a pretty straightforward thing to do.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


thewuss said:


> It's a surrealistic blending of old and new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My computer feeds a signal to a year-old DAC that drives a 30-year-old receiver that drives a year-old HE-6...
   
  I occasionally wonder if this is the first time some of these amplifiers have been connected to equipment that could fairly be considered their equals in terms of sound quality.


----------



## wotts

Quote:


ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> My computer feeds a signal to a year-old DAC that drives a 30-year-old receiver that drives a year-old HE-6...
> 
> I occasionally wonder if this is the first time some of these amplifiers have been connected to equipment that could fairly be considered their equals in terms of sound quality.


 


  I am using a very similar setup. I connected the HE-6 to the Marantz tonight, and wow, this is so close the Aleph 3. I might just use the 2265B to drive these. I think the Marantz doesn't have the bass extension the Aleph does, but more controlled. I really need to crack the case and check the caps.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> What speakers did you get?


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Man, I am so bummed we did not meet. It's funny, I spent several hours in CanJam during the Beer Social, but met only a few people, like Warp08 and Musicman59, which was cool - just wish it had been more.
> 
> But yeah - what speakers?  Do tell!


 

 I spent a couple of hours at the beer social hanging out at the Cavalli Audio table, in love with the Liquid Lightning amp.  Can't believe I didn't see you before Barleyguy and I left to go have Indian food.
   
  I bought the PSB Imagine Mini speakers, which I thought sounded better than the towers.  I posted some impressions from RMAF in Steve Guttenberg's review thread.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I occasionally wonder if this is the first time some of these amplifiers have been connected to equipment that could fairly be considered their equals in terms of sound quality.


 

 Quite emphatically and with underlining in red, yes.


----------



## treal512

That is an interesting thought, ardgedee. Makes me glad I'm on board because sitting here listening to my HK730 is bliss.


----------



## Joshatdot

I have a old NEC CD-410 (cerca 1987) that can drive my DT770 Pro 80s very well and is very clean


----------



## moodyrn

With the sources we have today, I would say vintage receivers/amps sound a lot better than they did thirty years ago. But there were however some nice sounding record spinners back then.


----------



## tink97

Hey everyone, I justed wanted to give a heads up anyone in the Seattle area a heads up that on craigslist there is a sansui 9090db for sale, looks in good condition.  I am not the seller nor do I know him, but figured maybe somebody wanted to pounce on it heh.  I thought about it but since I have a decware mini torri coming didn't feel the need to get another amp at this time 
   
  Have a great day all
   
  tink97


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


moodyrn said:


> With the sources we have today, I would say vintage receivers/amps sound a lot better than they did thirty years ago. But there were however some nice sounding record spinners back then.


 

 The original Linn LP12 is almost 40 years old!
   
  But it's not just turntables - there were classic speakers being made by Quad, Dahlquist, Acoustic Research, and so on as well, and well-maintained models can also hold their own with high-quality speakers made today. I think the problem is that once you'd gotten a scent of esoteric products wafting through the doors of the hi-fi store, you were probably also inclined to ditch your receiver and buy separate tuner, preamp and amplifiers, too. All in the eternal pursuit of upgrades.
   
  Back in the 70s, the major receiver manufacturers could and would make however many of any model that they could sell; even the expensive, high-powered stuff, for as long as people kept buying it, whereas the small shops couldn't keep up with demand if they were good and word got out. But now none of that is being made any more, hand-crafted and mass-produced alike, and working models can only get rarer, not more common.
   
  Vintage receivers are limited-edition gear now, just like all the other gear we have or covet, and it's easier to evaluate them on their own merits rather than their status relative to their peers in the boutique world.


----------



## moodyrn

I was speaking from the source side of things. I own two pairs of vintage speakers and love both of them.


----------



## Skylab

It's an interesting point, although when I play reel tapes via my Teac X-10R and my Pioneer SX-1980 and HPM-100's, it sounds KILLER.  That entire rig could have existed 33 years ago, and would have sounded just as good then


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I was speaking from the source side of things.


 

 Same here. We would have_ killed_ for the kind of source material that's available now. Even if you owned an LP 12, most LPs were badly produced and badly pressed, at least by audiophile standards. You bought direct-to-disc recordings, even of performances you didn't particularly like, just to catch a glimpse of what you knew your gear was capable of. Some of us went crazy and started making our own recordings.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed - while I get great sound with a Pioneer PL-530, that's because it has a thoroughly modern phono cartridge on it.


----------



## wualta

Exactly. Got an Advent 100A Dolby unit for that Teac?


----------



## moodyrn

I will say at the very least, it's much simpler to get excellent sound from the vintage gear today. My ipod via digital from my marantz player sounds very good. I can be outside, smoking a cigar listening to my ipod, then come inside and simple plug in a cable and pick up from where I left off. It doesn't get much simpler than that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Wow ipod and 30 year old receiver. what an odd paring.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I will say at the very least, it's much simpler to get excellent sound from the vintage gear today. My ipod via digital from my marantz player sounds very good. I can be outside, smoking a cigar listening to my ipod, then come inside and simple plug in a cable and pick up from where I left off. It doesn't get much simpler than that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The main source I use in my vintage rid is iPod Classic > Cambridge Audio D100 digital dock > Audio by Van Alstine tube-hybrid DAC.  Odd pairing, yes, but great sounding!
   


  Quote: 





wualta said:


> Exactly. Got an Advent 100A Dolby unit for that Teac?


 


  No...a Teac AN-60


----------



## Wharfrat

Ardgedee wrote: "...Make sure you aren't plugging your headphone directly into the speaker taps without some kind of intermediary (usually a resistor of appropriate value connected in parallel) in the way. The impedance mismatch can harm the transformer.
   
_Ok...so a competent electrical repair person could figure from the schematic the resistor value and where to connect it in parallel?  I assume its an inboard fix._
   
_Short of doing that, is there a way to determine the impedance matching parameters so that the transformer doesn't get damaged?  Thinking this through...speaker taps are 8 ohms and headphone cans can range from 28 to 600.  Most of mine are low impedance ones, except for the 250 ohm 880 Beyers._
   
_When you haul the amp in to your tech, talk to him about *how you intend to use the amp,* and he might be able to build you an *adaptor box with a TRS socket. *It's a pretty straightforward thing to do."_
   
_I am waiting for you to fire up yours and tell me if it's worth the trouble and how I can make the best use of it   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_
_I have an eye on a LP setup sometime down the line and wonder if the 222B's phono output is commendable.  As for an adapter box, that is news as I don't recall mention of such a gizmo for headphone-outputless units.  Any links to more information about such a thing?_
_BTW what is a TRS socket?_
   
_Thanks so much for your input..._


----------



## ardgedee

You're asking questions beyond the bounds of my electronics knowledge, but I'll try to answer as best I can...
   
  The headphone adaptors in most older amps is usually just the speaker output, damped with a resistor on each channel to bring the headphone's load to a level that the amplifier's output transformer is happy with. Different amps have different values of resistor between the amp circuit and the headphone socket, but since the amp designer can't predict what kind of headphones will be used with the amp, the resistor tends to be a value appropriate to ensure that the output transformers are safe even with fairly extreme headphones.
   
  If you're only planning on plugging a single headphone into the speaker taps, you can be reasonably precise in calculating the resistor necessary.
   
  The HE-6 thread had a discussion about the problem back in May, where kwkarth described what values and types of resistor to use for the HE-6 on a tube amp with 8 and 16 ohm speaker taps. (While you're there, read a couple pages of discussion preceding and following that comment, since it will fill you in a little better than this comment can). Since you have an HE-5, which has a different specified impedance, you will want different values (although I suspect the difference is minor enough that you could safely use the values in kwkarth's post). This is all calculable from the published specs for your phones, and your tech should be able to figure it out.
   
  The effective result is a headphone jack that sounds better than what the factory could have provided. The resistor soaks up less power and more goes to your phones and all works great as long as you don't later swap in a different headphone with different specifications. The headphone connection is outside the cabinet rather than inside it, but in electronic terms it's pretty close to the same thing.
   
  To elaborate on this a little bit, if you have a couple different headphones you want to use, you could have a switchbox created with settings appropriate for the input impedance of each of them, and click the dial before plugging in your phones.
   
  "TRS" an acronym for "Tip Ring Sleeve", which is how the conductors are arranged on 1/4" and 1/8" stereo phono jacks.
   
  Unfortunately I won't be able to provide a listening review for a while yet - while it's sitting in the office with me as I type this, rearranging and rewiring things to make it run has to be a lower priority for me right now than other obligations. I can't really help you regarding the phono section, since I haven't got any vinyl. Above all, keep in mind that we have different versions of the Scott 222 series amp at different states of restoration, and both of those kinds of differences can significantly affect the sound.
   
  For detailed help, I strongly recommend finding the wise old men on the audiokarma site who know all about what you've got.


----------



## KneelJung

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I personally would want more than 20 watts, because that's 20 watts into 8 ohms, you won't get that into 50 ohms, and if the Rotel has a dropping resistor, could be even less. I'm not sure what the sensitivity of the Fostex are though.


 


 First post in this thread. I have a similar question and will be using whatever I end up with to drive a pair of T50'as well, also a Grado.
  I'm looking at a Yamaha CR420 that looks like 25 watts into 8ohms. I'm also thinking about a Harmon Kardon 330b which according to this:
   
_HK 330B is rated at 17 Wpc RMS and measures at 39 Watts per channel when bench tested.
 That's how good it is._

 I'm leaning toward the 330b. This is a possibility too (Marantz 2230) but I dont even know if it's still available and they want $265?


----------



## wje

Quote: 





kneeljung said:


> I'm leaning toward the 330b. This is a possibility too (Marantz 2230) but I dont even know if it's still available and they want $265?


 

 That's the issue with the Marantz gear.  It still fetches some great resale prices.


----------



## schwallman

Im watching an auction for a 2230 that ends tomorrow. While I dont need it, if it stays pretty low I might grab it. With shipping its about $80 now.


----------



## Skylab

I finally scored the last piece I wanted to complete my Pioneer vintage rig - the elusive SD-1100 scope (it's in the middle):
   

   
  And so the vintage rig now looks like this (you can't see the PL-530 TT or the HPM-100 speakers):


----------



## WarriorAnt

Very nice!


----------



## BmWr75

Skylab, what does the scope do?


----------



## Skylab

It's nothing more than a gratuitous light display really, although it is both cool and instructive to see what the acoustic waveform looks like


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's nothing more than a gratuitous light display really, although it is both cool and instructive to see what the acoustic waveform looks like


 

 Very cool, what did you pay for that? It's not an EQ or anything? Just a light spectrum.


----------



## Skylab

Right, the EQ is just to the left of it, right under the Reel deck in the picture.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Right, the EQ is just to the left of it, right under the Reel deck in the picture.


 

 What is the model number of the Pioneer EQ? What receiver are you using the EQ with? Do you feel its worth it for me to have that as part of a stack?
   
  Edit: Wow that SD-1100 is not cheap. Go for around $1000 for anyone wanting to know.


----------



## ardgedee

I'm envious, Skylab.
   

  I'm hoping someday to land the equally elusive Heathkit AD-1013 to go with the AR-1500 here (which I've had to retire until it can be refurbed). They both look like lab equipment in cabinets designed to match your Ethan Allen living room set.


----------



## treal512

Holy jeebus, nice stacks, Skylab!


----------



## musicman59

Congratulations Rob! That is an awesome system!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys!  It's my totally relaxing man-cave rig 
   
  My EQ is actually a Sansui SE-8X.  It is hooked up, but I rarely actually use it to do any EQing - it's normally not in the circuit (the SX-1980 has an "adapter" loop with a switch so it's very easy for me to switch the EQ in and out as desired).


----------



## KneelJung

Any of you guys have thoughts on the Harmon Kardon 330b. It's going to be used mainly as a headphone amp but will probably end up hooking some bookshelfs up to it as well.


----------



## Wharfrat

Skylab, is he an audio-fashionista or is it man-cave interior designer?  (Has to be the latter, since the fashionables rarely have much true taste or dimension..). 
   
  Looks like one could select quite a slew of compatible design themes with the rigs...Sansui in all-black-white, McIntosh in black-silver-green-blue, Harman-Kardon in champagne aluminum and black, Marantz and Pioneer competing for the most baubles per square inch of faceplate....
   
  Ardegee: thanks for the 'splain...realized I got off thread with the technicalities tho there is much to learn regarding vintage system performance capabilities since this particular byway is an adaption of the normal plug and play that goes with modern equipment.  kwkarth....he's somewhere around hereabouts in the NW...sorta like Sasquatch.


----------



## wotts

I found this info on audiokarma. Looks to be quite popular, and I think I read the 330b is 17w/ch. I've just begun to stratch the surface over there. Seems to be a wealth of infomation.
   
  Quote:


kneeljung said:


> Any of you guys have thoughts on the Harmon Kardon 330b. It's going to be used mainly as a headphone amp but will probably end up hooking some bookshelfs up to it as well.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's nothing more than a gratuitous light display really, although it is both cool and instructive to see what the acoustic waveform looks like


 

  
  Never has Gratuitousness looked so good. Very nice setup.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks!  It can actually be used to evaluate and judge room acoustic problems, but that's more work than I have time for, and cannot really change the acoustics of my room anyway.  So I just sit and let it mesmerize me as the music flows


----------



## moodyrn

That looks great Skylab. If I had that man cave, I wouldn't mind the nights my wife send me to the couch. I might would even look forward to it.


----------



## Meewoo

I checked, but couldn't find a Pionny TT in your set up. Would you consider bring one? How is your electric bill going with the splendid vintage "view"???


----------



## Skylab

This is my Pioneer TT, a PL-530 which has a new real-wood veneer, and a Clearaudio Maestro Wood cartridge:
   

   
  The SX-1980 has a phenomenal phono stage, and I have a zillion LPs, so this was needed


----------



## Meewoo

Wow!!!


----------



## ardgedee

Wharfrat - not a problem! Feel free to PM me with questions, too. I don't always know what's going on but I enjoy trying to find out.


----------



## Wharfrat

Skylab,
   
  One thing that struck me about your Pionner setup galore is the uniformity in the wood grain and color tone. I love the look of wood and I used to restore old boat woodwork, mainly teak, that had faded from the tropical sun, especially around windows in the steering house cabins.  The biggest challenge was to match the wood color in areas where nautical charts were left to cover the wood against areas that always got sunlight.  A sun damaged area was always more faded than the other, even when the darker area was sanded off. 
   
  So, did you (or was it pure luck) find a way to bring uniformity to the wood tones?  What did you do, if anything?  The semi-gloss look tells me its either a urethanebased sealer/finish job or just a finely sanded oil and wipe and the glare from the camera.
   
  Also, regarding the acoustic waveform gizmo, would it be acquiring the room acoustics by a built in microphone or would specific miking placements be needed in order to get the measures meaningful if one wanted to toy with moving around tube traps?  Nowadays they have digital room correction devices that use a built in microphone to do that, but back in the day, it surely must have been different, no?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I finally scored the last piece I wanted to complete my Pioneer vintage rig - the elusive SD-1100 scope (it's in the middle):
> 
> 
> 
> And so the vintage rig now looks like this (you can't see the PL-530 TT or the HPM-100 speakers):


 

 Timed out!
   
  Well, I had been looking at these photos peacefully, calmly for 19 minutes. At minute 20, I suddenly became aware that I was staring with envy. Well done, Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Skylab,
> 
> One thing that struck me about your Pionner setup galore is the uniformity in the wood grain and color tone. I love the look of wood and I used to restore old boat woodwork, mainly teak, that had faded from the tropical sun, especially around windows in the steering house cabins.  The biggest challenge was to match the wood color in areas where nautical charts were left to cover the wood against areas that always got sunlight.  A sun damaged area was always more faded than the other, even when the darker area was sanded off.
> 
> ...


 


  Hi Whartfrat,
   
  Pioneer used the same color wood in all their products, and I have found that by using Old English scratch remover (the one for Medium-dark woods) I have been able to get the wood to all look both very nice and to be very similar in color, although there is some variation.  I did get lucky in the sense that I bought units where the wood was in decent shape, and where it wasn't, a little 0000 steel wool before the Old English did the trick.  The wood is not semi-gloss and there is no urethane, which helps a lot.
   
  Yes, Pioneer scope has microphone inputs and an oscillator generator built in, so one could do sweeps and measure both the input and output and compare, and indeed move around room treatments, furniture, or speaker location to try to get a better result.  As you point out, though, this is possible using DSP now and so unlikely anyone (including me) would try to do much of it the old-school way.


  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Timed out!
> 
> Well, I had been looking at these photos peacefully, calmly for 19 minutes. At minute 20, I suddenly became aware that I was staring with envy. Well done, Skylab.


 


  Thanks!


----------



## wje

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hi Whartfrat,
> 
> Pioneer used the same color wood in all their products, and I have found that by using Old English scratch remover (the one for Medium-dark woods) I have been able to get the wood to all look both very nice and to be very similar in color, although there is some variation.  I did get lucky in the sense that I bought units where the wood was in decent shape, and where it wasn't, a little 0000 steel wool before the Old English did the trick.  The wood is not semi-gloss and there is no urethane, which helps a lot.


 

 If one looks back into time when most of those products were released, such a product as polyurethane was not in the market, yet.  Instead, we had varnish to protect a stained finish.  Well, the varnish didn't always do the best job, either.  It would often yellow quite a bit and then dry and flake off.  It certainly didn't provide the lasting ability that polyurethanes of today do.
   
  I think that with some of the receiver cabinets, the vinyl woodgrain print was used not as a cost saving measure, but because there were not always a lot of options when it came to protecting the veneer and real wood casings properly.   However, I've also found that some of the older vinyl veneers actually look better than many that are released today - such as the vinyl woodgrain veneer that Parts Express sells.  It's OK, but not great.


----------



## sluker

Skylab,
  Do you ever use that tape deck (that thing is massive)? I have a sansui tape deck and have had the belts replaced but have yet to use it because I tossed all of my cassettes a few years back. Do you know a place that sells blank tapes? On-line all I see are bulk tapes of questionable quality or the Maxell DUP which are $15 each.


----------



## Skylab

Absolutely!  I have some cassettes I occasionally play, and it sounds great.  You can buy NOS blank Maxell tapes on eBay for good prices.


----------



## palmfish

My PL-707 is from the 80's and has vinyl veneer instead of wood. It is very high quality vinyl and looks nice...
   

   
  I also took my cassette deck out of storage recently and dug out a couple boxes of old recordings I made back in the 80's...
   

   
  Finally, I found this box on eBay with the demagnetizer and fluids. I cleaned up the box and lined it with soft velour padding...


----------



## BmWr75

I'm not much of a Herb Alpert fan, but I love this album cover.  Have never seen the picture LP.  That is very cool!!!
  
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> My PL-707 is from the 80's and has vinyl veneer instead of wood. It is very high quality vinyl and looks nice...


----------



## Skylab

And that's a great TT as well...


----------



## palmfish

My dad had that Herb Alpert album when I was a kid and I loved it then. When I saw this 180 gm re-release on the shelf, I had to get it.
   
  Yes, the 707 was a very good turntable in it's day (80dB s/n ratio!) and I enjoy it a lot. But the real wood veneer on yours is so nice. I was in grade school in the 70's so I kind of missed the "golden age."


----------



## KneelJung

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I found this info on audiokarma. Looks to be quite popular, and I think I read the 330b is 17w/ch. I've just begun to stratch the surface over there. Seems to be a wealth of infomation.
> 
> Quote:


 

  
  Thanks Wotts, I've poked around over there a little bit, basically whatever comes up from their site in google searches. There seems to be a lot of love for the whole 30 series, especially the 430. My sense of things before I posted my question here was that the H/K's, especially the 30 series are supposed to be very musical with a warm tube like sound. I'm looking at a 330 now but may switch my focus to a 430. If I'm understanding the HK series correctly, the 430's are the ones with the twin transformers.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





kneeljung said:


> Thanks Wotts, I've poked around over there a little bit, basically whatever comes up from their site in google searches. There seems to be a lot of love for the whole 30 series, especially the 430. My sense of things before I posted my question here was that the H/K's, especially the 30 series are supposed to be very musical with a warm tube like sound. I'm looking at a 330 now but may switch my focus to a 430. If I'm understanding the HK series correctly, the 430's are the ones with the twin transformers.


 


 You are correct.
  The H/K 930, 630, 730, 430, 560, 670, 680 and the Citation where all twin powered.
  I have a 730 and a 430 and they are REALLY good with the LCD's, escpecialy taken into account the prices they go for.
  Smooth, silky, tubelike and musical is what comes to mind. I know these audiophile cliches are tiresome but this is how I perceive things.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sweden said:


> I have a 730 and a 430 and they are REALLY good with the LCD's, escpecialy taken into account the prices they go for.
> Smooth, silky, tubelike and musical is what comes to mind. I know these audiophile cliches are tiresome but this is how I perceive things.


 


  x2!
   
  My 80's PM665 sounds a little analytical than my HK 730. I think it's just design philosophy difference between 70's and 80's.
   
  Since I need big power, I pair my citation 11 with a 200 wpc power amp. It sounds better than my other low power HKs. And  the headphone on citation 11 sounds fantastic!! Oh, you need a cable to induce the power from amp speaker terminals back to pre-amp. I checked ePay auctions, most citation 11s don't have this cable. So beware if you want powerful headphone amps also.


----------



## ardgedee

To the best of my knowledge only the _x_30 receivers and a Citation amp or two are Twin Power amps with paired transformers. Other Twin Power units (like 670 and 870) have only a single transformer, although with dual power supply boards. Other receivers from the era are not Twin Power units. (as the owner of a 670, I don't feel like I'm missing the second transformer; the one remaining is impressively massive.)
   
  In the era of Harmon Kardon's silver-faced receivers, they can be distinguished by "Twin Power" on the lower left faceplate and two LEDs over the power button. Lower-line models (like the 560) will have only one LED over the power button. This is also true of the integrated amps: The 505 has two LEDs, the 503 only one.


----------



## Sweden

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> x2!
> 
> My 80's PM665 sounds a little analytical than my HK 730. I think it's just design philosophy difference between 70's and 80's.
> 
> Since I need big power, I pair my citation 11 with a 200 wpc power amp. It sounds better than my other low power HKs. And  the headphone on citation 11 sounds fantastic!! Oh, you need a cable to induce the power from amp speaker terminals back to pre-amp. I checked ePay auctions, most citation 11s don't have this cable. So beware if you want powerful headphone amps also.


 

 How would you say the Citation 11 sounds different than the 730?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sweden said:


> How would you say the Citation 11 sounds different than the 730?


 

 I would say more punchy, controlled bass and small improvement in clarity. It may just the amp I am using. I didn't try HK730 pre-out yet, I will give it a try tomorrow.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sweden said:


> How would you say the Citation 11 sounds different than the 730?


 
  Ok, I gave a extensive listening today with Citation and HK730 as pre-amp. My observation stands as I said before. The HK 730 sounds a little soft, Citation 11 sounds more defined in every bits of music. My wife said Citation's sound was more "man up".


----------



## Zafonic

Another post got me thinking about trying a vintage receiver with my DAC and CD player.  Would virtually any vintage receiver with 20-30 watts per channel be ok to drive something like the Sennheiser HD 600 or 650?
   
  I'm thinking of buying a relatively cheap receiver that is in good working order.  Any brands to go for especially?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





zafonic said:


> Another post got me thinking about trying a vintage receiver with my DAC and CD player.  Would virtually any vintage receiver with 20-30 watts per channel be ok to drive something like the Sennheiser HD 600 or 650?
> 
> I'm thinking of buying a relatively cheap receiver that is in good working order.  Any brands to go for especially?


 

 I have HD650 and HD580, I paired them with Yamaha...... You can also consider Pioneer x50 or x80 line receivers.


----------



## Zafonic

Thanks 
   
  What is it about vintage receivers that people like or prefer?  Is it just the extra power that comes from them or the specific sound?  Or the value for money?


----------



## Meewoo

Sound................
   
  Sound for dollar.............
   
  Good amp for Headphone........... check why vintage stuff are good headphone amps in the early thread. Anyway, strongly recommend to go through the whole thread for rich information!!


----------



## dungeon

Quote: 





zafonic said:


> Thanks
> 
> What is it about vintage receivers that people like or prefer?  Is it just the extra power that comes from them or the specific sound?  Or the value for money?


 


  I own a Marantz 2252, which is as old as I am.   I picked it up for $250 locally on craigslist.  I spent a lot of time looking what was out there before I decided to go with a classic receiver, and in the end, the following factors won out:
   
  1.  Superb two channel audio quality.   Most units that are sold today are geared towards home theater, and are packed with a lot of bells and whistles that I decided simply weren't worth the money for me.   For example, I listen to more music and radio than I watch movies.   I don't have 5.1 or 7.1 speakers.   These older receivers were from an era when the #1 focus was sound quality, and the engineers did not have to make compromises to fit in fancy dolby processors, surround sound, internal DACs and so on.   I connected a Nuforce uDAC from my Mac Mini with RCA cables to the receiver and it sounds great.   I can upgrade the DAC down the line. 
   
  2.  Value.  For $250, what I can get at most big box stores is an entry level receiver, and like I said above it's going to have a lot of features I don't want.   The new Marantz models that focus on two  channel audio only start at two or three times that much.   I spent the money on speakers instead.
   
  3. Looks.  This thing is brushed metal, with kickass looking VU meters and big silver knobs.   It really stands out in my entertainment center.   I suppose this is a matter of taste, but I don't really like the all black units that are out there today.
   
  It's not without it's quirks though.   My 2252 is in for repair right now because the previous owner did a poor job repairing the power switch.   Whatever, it's just like owning a classic car.  You have to put up with some of the downsides but in exchange you have a really unique and quality piece of equipment.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *dungeon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I own a Marantz 2252, which is as old as I am.   I picked it up for $250 locally on craigslist.  I spent a lot of time looking what was out there before I decided to go with a classic receiver, and in the end, the following factors won out:
> 
> ...


 

 Are you saying stuff like this doesn't turn you on?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I finally scored the last piece I wanted to complete my Pioneer vintage rig - the elusive SD-1100 scope


 

 Hold on there, Captain Midnight...


----------



## Skylab

LOL! I have seen one of those before but it's just too cheesy looking for me...and that's saying something!


----------



## francisdemarte

That thing screams PARTY even without any music playing!


----------



## KneelJung

Question for you guys. I'm considering picking something up mostly for use as headphone amp to get sort of a different flavor and texture out of my T50's and Grado's. I'm driving them with an Audio GD Sparrow right now and since my Sparow doesnt have any RCA outs, I will have to get an adapter plug that goes into the headphone out of my Sparrow to feed a receiver or integrated amp. I saw Skylab post some thoughts about 20 WPC feeding into 8 ohms maybe not being ideal a couple of pages back. So my first question is what is probably the optimal WPC I should be looking for; and how much difference does brand make. I was leaning toward a Harmon Kardon 330 or 430, then I saw a Kenwood KA405 and thought wow. that thing looks really cool.
   
  I know the Marantzes and Sansui's are supposed to have a warm tube like sound too, the HK's even more so from what I've discerned, but this sort of stuff is all subjective anyway.
   
  Just wondered if anyone had any impressions.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





kneeljung said:


> Question for you guys. I'm considering picking something up mostly for use as headphone amp to get sort of a different flavor and texture out of my T50's and Grado's. I'm driving them with an Audio GD Sparrow right now and since my Sparow doesnt have any RCA outs, I will have to get an adapter plug that goes into the headphone out of my Sparrow to feed a receiver or integrated amp. I saw Skylab post some thoughts about 20 WPC feeding into 8 ohms maybe not being ideal a couple of pages back. So my first question is what is probably the optimal WPC I should be looking for; and how much difference does brand make. I was leaning toward a Harmon Kardon 330 or 430, then I saw a Kenwood KA405 and thought wow. that thing looks really cool.
> 
> I know the Marantzes and Sansui's are supposed to have a warm tube like sound too, the HK's even more so from what I've discerned, but this sort of stuff is all subjective anyway.
> 
> Just wondered if anyone had any impressions.


 

 I don't think there are optimal WPC. I don't think anyone can sample all headphones and vintage amps, then conclude a optimal WPC.
  When Skylab talked about watts, I remember he is referring ortho planer phones. Are there any dynamic phones requiring more power than planer? I have AKG K-240 sextett which people say hard to drive, but my 18wpc JVC JR-s61m can drive sextett without sweat. And it can drive my efficient Heresy loud enough for me. Yes, if you can find a JVC, they are very good too. I will put JVC in the same league as big names. Some people say Mitsubishi are good too, but I never have a chance to try them.


----------



## Skylab

For T50 and Grados, there is not a vintage receiver in the world that doesn't have plenty of power.  Meewoo is right, it's only the very power hungry planars where this is even an issue.


----------



## RexAeterna

zafonic said:


> Another post got me thinking about trying a vintage receiver with my DAC and CD player.  Would virtually any vintage receiver with 20-30 watts per channel be ok to drive something like the Sennheiser HD 600 or 650?
> 
> I'm thinking of buying a relatively cheap receiver that is in good working order.  Any brands to go for especially?




i'm big kenwood,sony,hitachi,sansui and yamaha fan. kenwood,sony,and hitachi don't get much recognition as pioneer and marantz do since back then pioneer and marantz had bigger advertisment so reason behind it's popularity back then and since they made some of the ''prettier'' units is another reason why. kenwood is very under-rated. only their big KA and KR series get recognize but they have lot of good mid to late 80's amps. hitachi is barely recognize at all even though their famous for starting the whole ''mosfet'' amp line-up and companies like yamaha,kenwood,nikko,and sony used hitachi mosfet transistors.

sansui gets a lot of notice but only mostly their TOTL stuff like the 5000x(which i have had for good couple years) and big G-series and AU-7xx series as well. yamaha is only popular with their CR series and big MX-XXX line of power amps for their legendary performance and only amps on earth that can kill 1ohm speakers easily since they were built like monsters with massive dual power transformers and high powered beefy caps and transistors. there R-XX series receivers of the mid to late 80's don't get much attention due to them being ''black faced'' receivers but was last of yamaha's best work and they based the power amp sections(well for their TOTL R-9) from their famous MX-XXX power amps and even their famous CX-XX preamps. the R-9 was the only receiver as well with a pure Class A section and only receiver that can handle down to 2ohm loads no sweat without blowing transistors or melting the wires(i know. it runs cool in class A driving low impedances.)


Sony is wonderful as well and they make lot of great gear. i don't have specific models on hand but i had experience a couple of their work.


----------



## ardgedee

Upgrading to a vintage receiver is perfectly sensible for any headphone user if it constitutes a qualitative improvement over their current lack of a headphone amp, or their low-quality amp.
   
  But if you've already got a pretty good headphone amp (and there are plenty being made now), spending out large dollars for a receiver only makes sense if there's a significant upgrade to be had by it (you're going for a TOTL model), or you want some of the added features (good FM tuner! good phono preamp), or you plan on adding speakers, or you have one of the very few headphones that need more power than any but the most exotic headphone amps can provide (many of the Hifiman HE-series phones do, although the Audeze LCD-2 doesn't).
   
  Power ratings at the speaker terminals are a forever-manipulated specification. You also can't make simple assumptions about how powerful the headphone jack is based on the speaker output ratings, since different manufacturers put different resistor values in different models. You can make a broad guess that a 200 wpc receiver is going to push a lot more wattage to the headphone jack than a 30 wpc receiver, but that's about the extent of it. The difference between 30 wpc and 45 wpc receivers might be negligible or counter-intuitive. 
   
  Don't want to discourage anybody from going after vintage gear, but I don't want to see unfounded speculations about it either. On the other hand, if a lot of people buy receivers, are disappointed, and start dumping 'em back on the market out of frustration, that might be good too. Hmmm.


----------



## Skylab

FANTASTIC post, ardgedee.  Couldn't agree more.


----------



## RexAeterna

ardgedee said:


> Upgrading to a vintage receiver is perfectly sensible for any headphone user if it constitutes a qualitative improvement over their current lack of a headphone amp, or their low-quality amp.
> 
> But if you've already got a pretty good headphone amp (and there are plenty being made now), spending out large dollars for a receiver only makes sense if there's a significant upgrade to be had by it (you're going for a TOTL model), or you want some of the added features (good FM tuner! good phono preamp), or you plan on adding speakers, or you have one of the very few headphones that need more power than any but the most exotic headphone amps can provide (many of the Hifiman HE-series phones do, although the Audeze LCD-2 doesn't).
> 
> ...




well of course. just mentioning most of the gear that only gets recognized only for it's looks and power rating. i guess it's a natural psychological need to have ''more'' as a bragging thing. low powered amps or receivers will do fine for headphones as well as the bigger guys. same goes for powering speakers. most people only listen at couple watts most of the time. i only go for bigger amps(specifically yamaha) for low impedance speakers cause i need it to push under 3ohm loads and barely any/most amp will die under a 4ohm load when forced to draw more current then it can. i have my yamaha hooked up to a dedicated 15A circuit for speaker use.


----------



## WarriorAnt

My daughter has a pair of Grado 80i's and they sound very good using them with my Marantz 2215B. It is a nice smooth, warm sound.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Upgrading to a vintage receiver is perfectly sensible for any headphone user if it constitutes a qualitative improvement over their current lack of a headphone amp, or their low-quality amp.
> 
> But if you've already got a pretty good headphone amp (and there are plenty being made now), spending out large dollars for a receiver only makes sense if there's a significant upgrade to be had by it (you're going for a TOTL model), or you want some of the added features (good FM tuner! good phono preamp), or you plan on adding speakers, or you have one of the very few headphones that need more power than any but the most exotic headphone amps can provide (many of the Hifiman HE-series phones do, although the Audeze LCD-2 doesn't).
> 
> ...


 

 +1 Very good post.


----------



## singh

I have a question.
   
  HE6 using the He adapter, connected to the speaker terminals,
  whats this setup  , balanced , semi -balanced , or single ended. ??
   
  my amp ofcourse is not balanced. ( takes RCA inputs, the AU-999 )
   
   
  If its single ended , why cant i connect single ended headphones to the HE-adapter ?
   

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Upgrading to a vintage receiver is perfectly sensible for any headphone user if it constitutes a qualitative improvement over their current lack of a headphone amp, or their low-quality amp.
> 
> But if you've already got a pretty good headphone amp (and there are plenty being made now), spending out large dollars for a receiver only makes sense if there's a significant upgrade to be had by it (you're going for a TOTL model), or you want some of the added features (good FM tuner! good phono preamp), or you plan on adding speakers, or you have one of the very few headphones that need more power than any but the most exotic headphone amps can provide (many of the Hifiman HE-series phones do, although the Audeze LCD-2 doesn't).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup my AU-999 is rated 65 W RMS but HE6 via its headphone out is simply not good, while the HD650 and K702 sound great off the headphone out.


----------



## Meewoo

@Rex,
   
  Do you think Yamaha R-8 for $75 and three hours round trip is a good deal? I know Your R-9 has class A operation, how about R-8? I couldn't find much info about it. Thanks!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





singh said:


> HE6 using the He adapter, connected to the speaker terminals,
> whats this setup  , balanced , semi -balanced , or single ended. ??
> 
> my amp ofcourse is not balanced. ( takes RCA inputs, the AU-999 )
> ...


 

   
  The standard headphone connector is a three-element phono plug. The connections are for left, right, and common ground.
   
  Speaker terminals (and the HE adaptor) connect at four points for independent left and right circuits (left +, left -, and right +, right -). There is no common ground. On many (BUT NOT ALL) amps you can safely bridge the right - and left - lines and have a circuit similar to a headphone's wiring. In fact this is how the headphone jacks on most vintage amps work, plus a couple resistors.
   
  I strongly recommend not experimenting with YOUR amp unless you're familiar with its wiring and understand it. Regardless of its age.
   
  The HE adaptor does not allow you to bridge the left and right circuits because the adaptor had to be designed for the broadest possible variety of amps, including those that could be damaged if the channels are bridged.
   
  Calling a four-point connection "balanced" is, as far as I can tell (I will correct this post if I'm wrong) a misnomer. A headphone with a four-element connection and without common ground is better described as being wired like speakers. It's unrelated to whether the amplification circuit has a balanced topology, and can be used on both balanced and single-ended amps.


----------



## KneelJung

Quote:


meewoo said:


> I don't think there are optimal WPC. I don't think anyone can sample all headphones and vintage amps, then conclude a optimal WPC.
> When Skylab talked about watts, I remember he is referring ortho planer phones. Are there any dynamic phones requiring more power than planer? I have AKG K-240 sextett which people say hard to drive, but my 18wpc JVC JR-s61m can drive sextett without sweat. And it can drive my efficient Heresy loud enough for me. Yes, if you can find a JVC, they are very good too. I will put JVC in the same league as big names. Some people say Mitsubishi are good too, but I never have a chance to try them.


 
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> For T50 and Grados, there is not a vintage receiver in the world that doesn't have plenty of power.  Meewoo is right, it's only the very power hungry planars where this is even an issue.


 

 First off thanks for the responses but let me try this again. My Sansa Clip can drive my Grado's no problem, and my Sparrow drives both my Grado's and T50's fine. When I was in High School, all through college, and until I moved to Florida twenty years ago I had a Pioneer receiver that my brother inherited. I dont even recall what model it was. It was one pf their entry level models that I bought new circa 1979 - 1980, and it was probably 20 WPC, so adding a Pioneer to my audio rig would have some nostalgic value  I think the HK 330 would probably be plenty to drive my T50's, and ideal for driving a set of bookshelfs. Like I said I saw that Kenwood KA405 and it just had alot of eyeball to it, and 55 WPC. I have been focusing on something like the HK because of it's supposed tube like sound, something the Marantzes and Sansui's supposedly have too, but perhaps that's something a lot of the vintage receivers do.


----------



## linuxid10t

I have tried the Audio-GD Sparrow.  It felt like the music was dead.  Just about any vintage receiver would do.
  
  Quote: 





kneeljung said:


> Question for you guys. I'm considering picking something up mostly for use as headphone amp to get sort of a different flavor and texture out of my T50's and Grado's. I'm driving them with an Audio GD Sparrow right now and since my Sparow doesnt have any RCA outs, I will have to get an adapter plug that goes into the headphone out of my Sparrow to feed a receiver or integrated amp. I saw Skylab post some thoughts about 20 WPC feeding into 8 ohms maybe not being ideal a couple of pages back. So my first question is what is probably the optimal WPC I should be looking for; and how much difference does brand make. I was leaning toward a Harmon Kardon 330 or 430, then I saw a Kenwood KA405 and thought wow. that thing looks really cool.
> 
> I know the Marantzes and Sansui's are supposed to have a warm tube like sound too, the HK's even more so from what I've discerned, but this sort of stuff is all subjective anyway.
> 
> Just wondered if anyone had any impressions.


----------



## jc9394

Guys, it Sansui G7700 any good?  Saw one on local craigslist but it is 3 ben.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Guys, it Sansui G7700 any good?  Saw one on local craigslist but it is 3 ben.


 

 I think it's a fair price if it in good condition.  $250 is sweet price; $100 will be a steal. Big G always has high price. The G-x700 is a more neutral sound line, personally, I like G-x000 line more than x700 line. All in all, it's a very good receiver, it was designed to compete with Pioneer sx-1080. But you should decide it by your ears.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think it's a fair price if it in good condition.  $250 is sweet price; $100 will be a steal. Big G always has high price. The G-x700 is a more neutral sound line, personally, I like G-x000 line more than x700 line. All in all, it's a very good receiver, it was designed to compete with Pioneer sx-1080. But you should decide it by your ears.


 


  Thanks, I think I will bring my LCD-2 to give it a listen before making a decision.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Guys, it Sansui G7700 any good?  Saw one on local craigslist but it is 3 ben.


 

 I think its high, i think $250 is much fairer. I hope it reconditioned too!


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I think its high, i think $250 is much fairer. I hope it reconditioned too!


 


  that is what i think too, i will keep searching.


----------



## Meewoo

Just picked up NAD legendary 3140 today for $75. the innards
   

   
  As far as I know, in all NAD components only x140 and x150 lines have twin mono design.


----------



## scompton

My dead 3155 has 1 transformer.  Looks very similar otherwise.  It died when I took it to a meet.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scompton said:


> My dead 3155 has 1 transformer.  Looks very similar otherwise.  It died when I took it to a meet.


 

 How? Beer bathing??


----------



## scompton

No idea.  It was working at the meet and when I got home, the right channel was completely dead, all inputs and all outputs.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





scompton said:


> No idea.  It was working at the meet and when I got home, the right channel was completely dead, all inputs and all outputs.


 

 Hmm, that would of been embarrassing.


----------



## Meewoo




----------



## dwinnert

My first post....been lurking for awhile.
   
  I run a 2011 Mac mini into a HRT MSII+ > Marantz 2220 that has been recapped and LED upgraded. Not in the picture is a Dual 2019 and speakers are Paradigm Atoms, v.6's. I have an Asgard on the way and currently use Grado SR80i's....but toying with a few others.
   
  Freakin love the Marantz....20W at 40% volume it's almost too much...no clipping at all.


----------



## wotts

Sharp looking unit!
  
  Quote: 





dwinnert said:


> My first post....been lurking for awhile.
> 
> I run a 2011 Mac mini into a HRT MSII+ > Marantz 2220 that has been recapped and LED upgraded. Not in the picture is a Dual 2019 and speakers are Paradigm Atoms, v.6's. I have an Asgard on the way and currently use Grado SR80i's....but toying with a few others.
> 
> Freakin love the Marantz....20W at 40% volume it's almost too much...no clipping at all.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





dwinnert said:


> My first post....been lurking for awhile.


 


 Welcome! Nice setup!
   
  Do you think SR-60i benefits from amping?


----------



## ardgedee

I had a SR-60 in the mid-90s. It definitely benefited from plugging it into a NAD receiver rather than the computer's headphone jack.
   
  Can't even remember the model of the receiver because I didn't have it for long. I accidentally fried it by wiring a headphone jack to the speaker taps to see how the SR-60 would sound there (answer: much better, but the amp noise was excessive, and then it died). Still feel bad about that.


----------



## wotts

Did you get some of the magic smoke? I've let the smoke out of a few different electronics. Funny thing about that is it never quite goes back in.

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I had a SR-60 in the mid-90s. It definitely benefited from plugging it into a NAD receiver rather than the computer's headphone jack.
> 
> Can't even remember the model of the receiver because I didn't have it for long. I accidentally fried it by wiring a headphone jack to the speaker taps to see how the SR-60 would sound there (answer: much better, but the amp noise was excessive, and then it died). Still feel bad about that.


----------



## publicholiday

My small humble collection, junior amps and receiver, marantz 2226 and sansui au 101
  IMHO, marantz sounds more crisp and nice low whereas sansui sounds warm and sweet.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> My small humble collection, junior amps and receiver, marantz 2226 and sansui au 101
> IMHO, marantz sounds more crisp and nice low whereas sansui sounds warm and sweet.


 
  Nice!  What little speaker is that?


----------



## publicholiday

castle durham


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> My small humble collection, junior amps and receiver, marantz 2226 and sansui au 101
> IMHO, marantz sounds more crisp and nice low whereas sansui sounds warm and sweet.


 

 Nice little system, congrats!


----------



## francisdemarte

Any good reccomendations for a tube integrated with good phono section? I want something to take the place of my Marantz while I have it down for a re-cap.


----------



## Skylab

Francis,
   
  Its not tube, but I would make you a SMOKING deal on my vintage Optonica integrated, which has a killer phono stage, since you are local.  PM if interested.


----------



## wje

I went a bit overboard this weekend.  I've had my Sansui 881 receiver for the past few weeks and it has been performing like a champ.  I came across some pretty good deals on Craigslist this weekend for two more receivers.
   

 Sansui G-5700
 Pioneer SX-3700
   
  Both are in quite good condition.  A few very small veneer issues on the Sansui, but the Pioneer was pristine and the lady selling it was the original buyer.  $100 for the Sansui and $40.00 for the Pioneer.
   
  I love the vintage sound.


----------



## 5aces

Today was a nice sunny day so I drove to my storage unit and loaded up the 1976 Yamaha NS-1000 Monitor Speakers,serial 69032 L & R.
Since I resurrected the 1975 Yamaha C-1 Preamp & B-1 power Amp,it was the right thing to do...
These cabinets are heavy at 70 lbs. each and are a 'mirrored' type speaker,just like the JBL L-112.
The internal bracing and finish reflects Yamahas rich history building musical instruments.
Even the front covers have a steel frame with 8-ply one inch wood corner blocks.
The Yamaha "Tuning Fork" front emblem is attatched with a metal back plate and machine bolts!
Yes,all of this set is big,hot and heavy but I will always have a place for these rare pieces.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





wje said:


> I went a bit overboard this weekend.  I've had my Sansui 881 receiver for the past few weeks and it has been performing like a champ.  I came across some pretty good deals on Craigslist this weekend for two more receivers.
> 
> 
> Sansui G-5700
> ...


 

 Congrats on the Pioneer, you'll love it. What speakers are you going to run it with? Hopefully vintage speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> Today was a nice sunny day so I drove to my storage unit and loaded up the 1976 Yamaha NS-1000 Monitor Speakers,serial 69032 L & R.
> Since I resurrected the 1975 yamaha C-1 Preamp & B-1 power Amp,it was the right thing to do...
> These cabinets are heavy at 70 lbs. each and are a 'mirrored' type speaker,just like the JBL L-112.
> The internal bracing and finish reflects Yamahas rich history in building musical instuments.
> ...


 

 Wow, im not sure if it was you or someone on my vintage speaker owner thread that mentioned about these, but i love these speakers now. Seem very industrial/ monitor friendly and with your C-1 and B-2 you'll be a very happy man with that setup.


----------



## francisdemarte

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Francis,
> 
> Its not tube, but I would make you a SMOKING deal on my vintage Optonica integrated, which has a killer phono stage, since you are local.  PM if interested.


 


   

  Never heard of Optonica, but I'm intrigued. PM Sent!


----------



## walden

Right now my setup looks something like this:
   

   
  Technics SLB-350/computer internal soundcard --> Adcom GTP-400 --> Audio Technica ATH-M50
   
  The Adcom receiver isn't exactly vintage (early 90's I think). After adding the receiver to the setup I noticed slightly tighter bass, as well as better instrument separation. Not much, but from what I've heard the M50s don't have a lot of room for improvement with amplification anyway.
   
  Has anyone had any experience using this Adcom unit (or a similar one) that can comment on the quality of the headphone amp? I'm wondering if this would make a good amp for harder to drive headphones like the Sennheiser HD-600s, or if I should stick with the M50s until I'm ready to make the plunge for a dedicated headphone amp.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> Never heard of Optonica, but I'm intrigued. PM Sent!


 
  Optonica is Sharp's high end audio stuff. They are very nice stuff, build quality is on par of Pioneer. My SM-4545 is better build than Pioneer Sa-9100. Oh, Sounds very nice with neutral tone.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





walden said:


> Right now my setup looks something like this:
> 
> Technics SLB-350/computer internal soundcard --> Adcom GTP-400 --> Audio Technica ATH-M50
> 
> ...


 

 Hey, your Adcom is just a *pre-amp*, not integrated amp, it wouldn't have power to drive HD-600. I had GTP-600 before and couldn't drive my Q-701.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Today was a nice sunny day so I drove to my storage unit and loaded up the 1976 Yamaha NS-1000 Monitor Speakers,serial 69032 L & R.
> Since I resurrected the 1975 Yamaha C-1 Preamp & B-1 power Amp,it was the right thing to do...
> These cabinets are heavy at 70 lbs. each and are a 'mirrored' type speaker,just like the JBL L-112.
> The internal bracing and finish reflects Yamahas rich history building musical instruments.
> ...


 

 Your TOTL stuff keeps killing me!!!!!


----------



## cifani090

I guess there was a pair of [size=x-small]Pioneer HPM 150 for $350 on my craigslist. And i didn't even see them[/size]


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> Your TOTL stuff keeps killing me!!!!!




Like many others on their audio quest,I had to wait to achieve certain coveted gear.
I too have lusted and watched audio opportunities sail off into the sunset.
Looking at pictures,listening to the banter and on rare occaisons the actual equipment,always kept the dream alive.

A little story about the gentleman who gave up his Yamaha NS-1000's.
Here is a photo from his listening room with Devore Fidelity Silverback Reference speakers,which I believe retailed new @$16,000
Under the covers beside the Devore are Gershman Acoustics Avante Garde speakers and he admits it took the Devores to allow him to release the Yamahas.
He found the NS-1000 to be best for determining component upgrade effects on the overall system.
I do believe he had an emotional attachment to these speakers,as they were his first good pair on his audiophile journey.

Lately he had used Manley Labs Neo-Classic 300B monobocks,almost a two feet long chassis,to run the Yamahas.
Always low power tube amps for many years,listening to Jazz and Classical at low levels.
I auditioned these in a home room with at least $50,000 of an all tube and vinyl set up,I must say it was a great day overall picking up those speakers.
A man after my own heart,three sets of speakers and a plethora of gear to switch up the sound.


----------



## Meewoo

*WoooooooooooooooooooooooooW*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Like many others on their audio quest,I have had to wait to achieve certain coveted gear.
> I too have lusted and watched audio opportunities sail off into the sunset.
> Looking at pictures,listening to to the banter and on rare occaisons the actual equipment,always kept the dream alive.
> A little story about the gentleman who gave up his Yamaha NS-1000's.
> ...


 

 I totally have to aggree, most of the stuff i own ive waiting about a year to acquire. I only have about $500 into this hobby and my resale is ___?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





walden said:


> Right now my setup looks something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Not sure about the Adcom unit. But the cover art for Weather Report takes the whole ensemble up level.


----------



## ardgedee

*8:30* is a great album in its own right, I still have a warm place for it in my heart even though I'm not such a fan of fusion jazz any more. It was my introduction to Weather Report, Joe Zawinul and Jaco Pastorius all at once, and everybody on that album has done great stuff both inside and outside the genre. Worth a spin no matter how much or how little you like fusion jazz.


----------



## walden

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Not sure about the Adcom unit. But the cover art for Weather Report takes the whole ensemble up level.


 
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> *8:30* is a great album in its own right, I still have a warm place for it in my heart even though I'm not such a fan of fusion jazz any more. It was my introduction to Weather Report, Joe Zawinul and Jaco Pastorius all at once, and everybody on that album has done great stuff both inside and outside the genre. Worth a spin no matter how much or how little you like fusion jazz.


 


  Couldn't agree more, I love all the musicians on this record, and being a huge Jaco fan I'd have to say that this is my favorite performance of his. I just picked this up about a week ago at Jerry's records near Pittsburgh. That place has an amazing selection, rumored to be over 1,000,000 records. But I supposed this isn't exactly related to the thread is it?


----------



## treal512

Hey guys, I found a Marantz 2275 local that I got the owner down to $300 on. I'm more on the lookout for a SX-1250, but what do you think? The owner says it is in excellent condition. I was thinking about going and checking out, but I wanted some input. Like how does the 2275 compare the other models around its kind? How hard are the lamps to replace? Do LEDs ruin the color?


----------



## cifani090

Well LED conversioned receivers go for more. $300 is fair if it has an LED conversion, i have an audio reseller selling one for $275 without it. I sold a 2270 on ebay for $340 without the LED conversion.


----------



## treal512

One of the lamps is out on his. I've seen pictures of the LED upgrade. It looks nice, but very bright! Maybe I should hunt for OEM vs. LED comparisons if there are any because its hard to say when just looking at a picture. Is your reseller selling the 2275 model for that price? How does the 2270 compare with the 2275? I can't recall which, but I know some models have more issues than others.


----------



## treal512

Oh man, found a bunch of threads by searching just now (haha). I should have done that first, and I usually do, but I've been working on some school work so I've been a little preoccupied. Feel free to give any input though!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





walden said:


> Couldn't agree more, I love all the musicians on this record, and being a huge Jaco fan I'd have to say that this is my favorite performance of his. I just picked this up about a week ago at Jerry's records near Pittsburgh. That place has an amazing selection, rumored to be over 1,000,000 records. But I supposed this isn't exactly related to the thread is it?


 


  Vintage vinyl? For a vintage receiver?? A little latitude is in order! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like Jaco too. Have you his solo effort on wax? My own Phono section on my vintage iron (SX-650) surprised me. Now thinking of buying a few audiophile pressings...


----------



## walden

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Vintage vinyl? For a vintage receiver?? A little latitude is in order!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I've been on the lookout for some of his solo work on vinyl, but I don't like to buy new and haven't found any.


----------



## Skylab

The 2275 is a great sounding receiver.  It's definitely on the warm side, but not to the point of gooey.  I sold mine only to upgrade to he slightly more powerful (and IMO better looking) 2285 which I use both to drive the HE-6 and a pair of B&W N805's at work.  Love it.
   
  The dial lamps are mostly fuse-type and can be very easily replaced once you take it apart.  Same with the meter lamps.  Only the Stereo indicator is a soldered bulb, and so that one requires more work to replace. I personally think this series Marantz just screams for LED lighting and much prefer the look with the LED conversions.


----------



## jc9394

Anyone have a Sansui BA-2000 and CA-2000 pair?  How is the CA-2000 headphone out?


----------



## Meewoo

I think 5ace has Sansui Ba and Ca-2000. Though I might be wrong.
   
  I dig the CA-2000 for a while and thought it is not a good Pre-amp for headphone. I think it has designated headphone circuit itself based on photos online. It doesn't use the power from speaker output to drive headphone, so it's more like modern HT receiver. You wouldn't got enough power as vintage receivers or integrated amps we talked here.
   
  I have Harman Citation 11 pre-amp which use a cable to induce power from power amp speaker port. A member here mentioned that Pioneer SPEC also adopts same treatment. But hey, you need run a power-amp with those kind of pre-amps to drive headphones.  The Pre-amps with same design are good  headphone amps.
   
  I don't know weather BA-2000 has headphone port, I have seen some power-amp have headphone ports. The design appears abnormal for me, but it may be very useful (I just don't know).


----------



## 5aces

For people that have owned Sansui amps, there seems to be two camps. 
The first are the owners who love their Amps and will never sell them.
The second are the owners who sold their Amps and wish they hadn't.



As a preamplifier,the AU 2000 has one of the smoothest volume controls you will encounter,although on sight some may prefer the non inset style of the other models(CA 3000)
Provides all the sound controls you will ever need.
Best feature is the dual pre-outs with the OFF /1 /2 /1+2 settings,allowing dual amping.
Deathly silent with no signal going through,running it flat provides a good sound.
Has its own headphone amp built in,if it doesn't sound good the unit needs to be serviced. 

Eyes to Heaven and hand over Heart,ha ha.
For affordability,I am partial to the Sansui AU 7900 integrated amplifier,it has a renowned phono stage and makes a great preamplifier too. 

Here is a photo of the headphone circuit board from the CA 2000 service manual:



Replacement Cap List:
F-2491 (Circuit board for headphone)

C01 1uf 50v
C02 1uf 50v

C03 100uf 6.3v
C04 100uf 6.3v

C07 10uf 25v
C08 10uf 25v

C09 100uf 6.3v
C10 100uf 6.3v

c11 220uf 25v
c12 220uf 25v

C602 100uf 50v 

Here is an F-2491 headphone circuit board pull from a CA 3000
*Before* service and *After *service:

 
Do not write these units off as "Bad Sounding" unless you get them up to snuff.


----------



## Meewoo

Hey, 5aces,
  Do you think there are differences between good power-amps? I am asking the "dumb" question since some people are talking the characteristics of different power-amps, some people just say *well designed* power-amps should have flat response, so there are no noticeable differences. I am leaning to second opinion, my observation is that pre-amp decides sound, power-amp doesn't. How do you think?
  If the second opinion is more accurate, why there are such big price differences between power-amps? I am looking for a Nakamichi P-7, and it fetches a lot of money. Do you think my Yamaha m-60 sounds $400-$500 inferior than P-7?  *Thanks! *


----------



## jc9394

Do you have any idea on the pricing on these?  I can't find much off eBay to get an idea.
  
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> For people that have owned Sansui amps, there seems to be two camps.
> The first are the owners who love their Amps and will never sell them.
> The second are the owners who sold their Amps and wish they hadn't.
> 
> ...





>





>


----------



## 5aces

Ahh Meewoo,if we begin this discussion we will instigate a real Royal Rumble.

Unless we both own the exact same sound system to compare views,our theories remain moot.

Passive preamplifiers vs. Active ones vs. none at all.
Amplifiers matched to all types of different speakers.

A preamplifier at its most basic,simply controls the volume of a power amplifier.
Even then,some people choose stepped attenuators that plug directly into the power amplifier inputs to remove the preamp altogether.

Naturally the more features a preamplifier or 'control' amplifier has,the more effect it will have on the overall sound. 

For a Power Amplifier to sound right it:

1)-*must not be broken*
2)-*must meet basic high fidelity specifications*
3)-*must be stable into the load it is driving*

Speaker selection is a huge factor,a mismatch can make a great power amplifier sound horrible and vice versa.

I want to answer your questions more directly but just know we will end up like this:


*"Doin' the Spiderwalk"*




jc9394 said:


> Do you have any idea on the pricing on these? I can't find much off eBay to get an idea.




Figure $1,000 USD for a clean 9/10 CA/BA 2000 set,anything less and you have done well.


----------



## Meewoo

Thanks! Nice read and pictures!! I will keep the myth in my mind.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> For people that have owned Sansui amps, there seems to be two camps.
> The first are the owners who love their Amps and will never sell them.
> *The second are the owners who sold their Amps and wish they hadn't.*
> 
> ...


 

 Im in that club... A few thousand is what i heard from a retail Hi Fi shop in Chicago @ jc9495.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The 2275 is a great sounding receiver.  It's definitely on the warm side, but not to the point of gooey.  I sold mine only to upgrade to he slightly more powerful (and IMO better looking) 2285 which I use both to drive the HE-6 and a pair of B&W N805's at work.  Love it.
> 
> The dial lamps are mostly fuse-type and can be very easily replaced once you take it apart.  Same with the meter lamps.  Only the Stereo indicator is a soldered bulb, and so that one requires more work to replace. I personally think this series Marantz just screams for LED lighting and much prefer the look with the LED conversions.


 

 Great, just what I was looking for. A few more questions for you: How did you like the 2275 with your LCD-2? I don't own any HE cans anymore and will probably stick with the LCD-2 for a while. Also, I spoke with the owner in more detail on the condition of the device and he said, "Two of the little buttons on front are loose. They both operate fine, but will fall off if you are not careful. I am not certain how to secure them, so rather than risk damage, I have left them alone." Know anything about that? I'm trying to see if his price + my repairs will make this worthwhile. I'm already looking at a few lamp replacements or possibly a LED upgrade. Luckily he says the sound is distortion/pop free.


----------



## 5aces

No offence but I would like to have the name of the Hi-Fi Store that wants *"a few thousand"* for a Sansui CA 2000/BA 2000 set.

Just so I could drive from Toronto to Chicago and wait out back of the shop,where I know the owner would emerge at exactly 4:20 pm.

Precisely at the moment his lungs were full from his massive draw on an expensive Mobius Glassworks Bong I would step up and say:

"I'll say,that's some super weed you've got there.

Let's go back inside and take a look at that Sansui price tag one more time shall we?"

Even if it was new in the box,I just would not pay that price and you shouldn't either.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> No offence but I would like to have the name of the Hi-Fi Store that wants *"a few thousand"* for a Sansui CA 2000/BA 2000 set.
> Just so I could drive from Toronto to Chicago and wait out back of the shop,where I know the owner would emerge at exactly 4:20 pm.
> Precisely at the moment his lungs were full from his massive draw on an expensive Mobius Glassworks Bong I would step up and say:
> "I'll say,that's some super weed you've got there.
> ...


 

 Got it wrong, he's in Seville, and his name is Lee. Lots of great gear, including some HPM 150's, 1980, [size=x-small]Pioneer TZ-7 elites, [/size][size=x-small]Sansui Tu9900, Sansui Ca-2000 , G4500, Sansui AU D11, [/size][size=x-small]Celestion Ditton 66 speakers. Yamaha NS1000, NS690, NS670, NS590, NS500, NS500m, and NS5s(several pr), Klipsch CF3, Forte, and KG4's, most of the [/size]Sansui stuff that i was talking about has sold it.


----------



## 5aces

Let's back up one frame here regarding the Sansui CA 2000 and BA 2000 Set.



jc9394 said:


> Do you have any idea on the pricing on these?  I can't find much off eBay to get an idea.




 


cifani090 said:


> A few thousand is what i heard from a retail Hi Fi shop in Chicago @ jc9495.




Are we to now understand that a retail shop in Seville,Ohio has sold a Sansui CA/BA combo for a few thousand or is asking that price?

A few thousand is not a realistic price for jc9394 to have.

I purchased one of these sets recently this summer through eBay.
It was 8/10 and I picked it up locally for less than a $1,000 Can.
When I looked up past sales,most really nice sets were going for $1,000 US.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Are we to now understand that a retail shop in Seville,Ohio has sold a Sansui CA/BA combo for a few thousand or is asking that price?
> A few thousand is not a realistic price for jc9394 to have.
> I purchased one of these sets recently this summer through eBay.
> It was 8/10 and I picked it up locally for less than a $1,000 Can.
> When I looked up past sales,most really nice sets were going for $1,000 US.


 

 Ya, he was the original owner and i think he sold it a hair under $2,000.


----------



## 5aces

Condition is everything when talking about prices for used gear. 
In the long run it's far,far cheaper to pay a bit more for a nice piece than to get a rough example and try to fix it up,unless it just needs cleaning or simple parts.

Still,I would have to say,original owner or not,that buyer got skinned or really had his heart set on those models.
Even if he did,as a seller I just could not make that kind of sale to an individual.

Some sellers are revealing their self-induced fantasies about the appreciation they have been dreaming about. 
That they do not believe those prices are realistic now is demonstrated by their mistrust of the auction process.
 In other words, they'd like to sell but are not willing to relinquish their fantasies and are looking for a buyer who will meet them somewhere near outer space.

Well,the Seville seller found a buyer from outer space and took advantage of him.
I suppose that's OK if he cheated him "just a little".

For $1,900 US he could have found the Integrated AU 20000 @ 170watts all night and day instead of the little 110watt BA power amp/CA preamp.
Hard to believe this,sorry for his luck.


Don't get Pi33ed on by over zealous sellers.
Conversely,if an elderly person was asking $40 for a rare amp at least have the integrity to say "I know it's worth a little more than that".
Damn.Remember the Veterans.


----------



## jc9394

No, I will not pay anything over a $1000 for the set, the one I'm looking at is around $600.  He did some service on the BA and the CA works fine but will need some maintenance in the future.


----------



## 5aces

A voice of reason.
PM me if you want the CA 2000 Service Manual.


----------



## jc9394

5aces, thanks.   I will PM you if I gets the BA/CA combo.


----------



## KneelJung

I picked up an HK330 on ebay and it arrived today. Aesthettically for something that's 35 plus years old it looks great. Came in it's original box with the owners manual. The only problem is only one channel is working. I bought it basically to use with headphones but there is only one channel working on the headphone out. When I hooked a pair of speakers up, same deal. Where do I start


----------



## wotts

Having just worked on a receiver, I say check the caps. The electrolytic capacitors dry over time and sometimes 'burst'. A good indicator is the top looking convex. I threw away the bad caps from the project, or I'd post some pictures.


----------



## scott73

i have the whole system, which i to fell in love with when i got it over 10 years, but unfortunately the amps right channel has started to amit a low beep pulsing sound  i have tried to get it fixed to no avail so far, if anyone can help i would be really grateful
   
  thanks
  
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Although of a bit more recent vintage than what's typically posted in this thread, I recently acquired a little beauty that I immediately fell madly in love with when I first saw her advertised in the pages of the British audio magazine, HiFi News & Record Review back some time in the 90's.
> 
> In ways, she reminds me of my first "real" amplifier I bought shortly after starting my first "real" job when I was 16 back in the mid-70's, a Pioneer SA-7700 integrated. Like the 7700 she's smaller than the typical audio component. She's only rated at 50 watts per channel. And she's fairly "minimalist."
> 
> ...


----------



## scott73

ha ha yes it is, i always thought the same, my amp is slowly dying now the right channel is omitting a low beep pulse sound  i don't want to get rid of it cos i love it, i have had it from new, must be 10 years +, can't find a solution or repair? the knob moves on its own via the remote too which is very cool....
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> How's the feel on that volume knob?  I just want to turn it when I look at it. As if I'm going to unlock a safe filled with music.


----------



## Linkin

Hello. I have a Sansui R-50 that I got from my dad recently:
   

   

   

   
  Excuse the not-so-good quality pics, but I thought I'd share 
   
  Running it from my PC with an X-Fi Titanium sound card, along with AD700's.
   
  It does have a few problems:
   

 Constant hiss on right channel (not too bad when listening to stuff though)
 Audible noise when moving the mouse on the PC
 Hiss/Scratching when adjusting the volume and treble knobs
   
  As for the first two problems, they aren't present when I'm driving the AD700's directly from the sound card, only through the receiver. However I do believe my sound card is faulty as many of my games crash with artefacts and dsound.dll being the culprit. I've already swapped out graphics cards and the motherboard so it's not either of those. Onboard sound is not really all that great either, I'd rather not use it. But anyway.
   
  Any advice on fixing these issues?


----------



## jc9394

Seein the Teac compact makes me remember I still have a Kenwood UD90 in my parent's house, it is great system in the days.  Is the headphone out any good?  It sure drives the Totem speakers very well before I sold the Totem.


----------



## Skylab

@KneelJung - try working all of the switches and controls repeatedly back and forth or in and out and see if that ever makes both channels work.  Sometimes one channel not working is just due to a dirty contact or switch somewhere.  Work each control a few dozen times.  It may be that this does the trick, in which case you really need to get into the controls with come contact cleaner.  It could be that one channel is just plain dead, but try this first.  Do it without headphones connected.
   
  @Linkin - hiss could be the sign of a transistor going bad.  Disconnect your source - do you still hear the hiss? If not, then you just have a noisy source. But if you do still hear the hiss with no source connected, then also try working all the switches as recommended above. If that doesn't help, it will likely need servicing.
   
  Advice to anyone buying a vintage receiver (specifically): invest the $5 to buy a folded dipole antenna, and check the sound using the built in FM tuner.  This can help in troubleshooting.  And you also may find you have some nice radio stations to listen to - many of these units have great sounding tuners.


----------



## scompton

I take my iPod with an RCA line out dock cable.  I don't really care that much about FM.  I'd probably need a roof mounted antenna to pick up anything other than the local pop classical station.  When I do listen to FM, it's usually streamed over the computer.  I've recently been listening to WBGO out of Newark, NJ. 50s and 60s jazz for bed time music.


----------



## Skylab

I get very good reception here from at least a dozen stations, and the local public radio Jazz station is great sounding, as well as having a lot of excellent Jazz.


----------



## Linkin

Alright thanks for the suggestions, I think I'll go listen to FM once I pick up a decent antenna


----------



## KneelJung

Quote: 





skylab said:


> @KneelJung - try working all of the switches and controls repeatedly back and forth or in and out and see if that ever makes both channels work.  Sometimes one channel not working is just due to a dirty contact or switch somewhere.  Work each control a few dozen times.  It may be that this does the trick, in which case you really need to get into the controls with come contact cleaner.  It could be that one channel is just plain dead, but try this first.  Do it without headphones connected.


 

 Figured it out, bad fuse. I swapped fuses and the other channel started working and the other one stopped...yeah!  So now I need to find a new fuse and get it interfaced with my DAC


----------



## Skylab

Well that's good news! Many hardware stores carry typical audio fuses, as does RadioShack.


----------



## cifani090

What do you guys think of a [size=10pt]ADC 1600DD? Got it for $30 and i guy in the UP is sending it to me, so $50 total[/size]


----------



## wje

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Some sellers are revealing their self-induced fantasies about the appreciation they have been dreaming about.
> That they do not believe those prices are realistic now is demonstrated by their mistrust of the auction process.
> In other words, they'd like to sell but are not willing to relinquish their fantasies and are looking for a buyer who will meet them somewhere near outer space.


 

  Oh, those words are so true.  As I monitor the local Craigslist, this one guy keeps relisting his Marantz gear - a vintage receiver and an integrated amplifier.  However, his prices are way out of the league, and far out there from what a typical Craigslister would pay.  But, there was some anonymous posting that was made that made me chuckle.  I have the post quoted below for your enjoyment.
   
   
   


> do you think everyone else is as big an idiot as you? all the junk you try to sell is priced higher than COMPLETED ebay sales. The Marantz 1250 hasn't sold for over $300 working, yours is a pile of crap and you want over $400. but you continue to post the same stuff over and over every week for years without asking realistic prices.


----------



## wje

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Congrats on the Pioneer, you'll love it. What speakers are you going to run it with? Hopefully vintage speakers


 
   
  Actually, I haven't even plugged the Pioneer in yet - with the two Sansuis in use, though.  The Sansui G-5700 went downstairs and is driving my Monitor Audio RS-6 speakers.  The sound is total bliss.  Unreal.  I had been driving them before with a Yamaha RX-V1600 and a Parsound amp.  Yet, the Sansui just unleashes the beast in them.  I ended up the other evening getting up and after listening to some music and looked at my subwoofers to ensure the subs were not on and assisting to the bass in anyway.  The subs were "off".  The synergy between the Sansui and my Monitor Audio speakers was just killer.
   
  I can't tell you how much money I've lost by buying and selling home theater receivers - of all brands trying to find that "right" sound.  However, now this Sansui G-5700 comes into the picture for $100 a bests the sound of any of those newer receivers by a country mile.  In most cases, I lost about $100 off of each receiver that I've had to sell off.  I'm probably looking at about $700 or $800 of *stupid* money that's gone by my own stupidity.


----------



## Meewoo

@wje,
   
  Could I know which Parasound amp you used? I was looking for a 80's Parasound amp, and didn't know they could be beaten by Sansui. Thanks!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wje said:


> Oh, those words are so true.  As I monitor the local Craigslist, this one guy keeps relisting his Marantz gear - a vintage receiver and an integrated amplifier.  However, his prices are way out of the league, and far out there from what a typical Craigslister would pay.  But, there was some anonymous posting that was made that made me chuckle.  I have the post quoted below for your enjoyment.


 

 I think I can live with it, people can ask for what they want.
   
  I just can't live with some people are selling the White Van speakers like Theater Research, Denmark, Para... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Some Brands were used ten years ago and a little hard to google online, the screwed people want to screw other people to make up their lost.
  And the worst thing, faked Beats headphone are everywhere to target innocent youth!!! I do hope those people can sleep at night.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> I think I can live with it, people can ask for what they want.






What a great song to listen to as I contemplate my belief in Liberty and Free Enterprise.
I would agree that a seller may ask any price they deem appropriate for their product.

As *wje* pointed out,it can actually become quite comical with the tenacity of some sellers holding on to their fantastic prices.
A glass belly button for them to peer out of so they can look out at the rest of us wondering how their head got shoved so far up into themselves... 
Especially those misrepresenting product or worse,fake audio equipment.

Average prices are determined by product that has actually sold and it is troubling when people overpay for their goods due to a lack of reliable information or advice.

The question is,where will the collector value go?
No one knows,but at some of the prices being asked,a few sellers are certainly trying to claim a very excessive share of future gains.

Most high end vintage purchases seem to have a large element of emotion attached.
Positive reviews of equipment are essential,just as with brand new pieces,to rationalize a hard to confess irrationality when you are about part with a large sum for vintage audio equipment.
Makes for easy prey when someone has their mind focused on a point in time long past and all the voices of *see/want/covet/aquire* are calling at once.

Do your research and good luck buying your vintage audio.


----------



## Skylab

The key, IMO, to doing well in the vintage audio game is not to be in a hurry.  Take your time, do the research, and then wait for the right opportunity.  It will come.
   
  One key IMO is to decide what path you want to take: do you want an uber bargain, and you are willing to accepts some warts, or you want a vintage piece that looks and works like new.  Because they are very different paths.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

The Vintage receiver game is tough.  I have an 80's Luxman r-117 that I really like, but I need an fm antenna for it; it's 75ohm.    It didn't sound so great though with my k-1000 when I had it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> The Vintage receiver game is tough.  I have an 80's Luxman r-117 that I really like, but I need an fm antenna for it; it's 75ohm.    It didn't sound so great though with my k-1000 when I had it.


 


  Great piece, I have one too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You can use the TV antenna on them, check your local RS, they have clearance sale not long time ago!!


----------



## Meewoo

IMHO, Craiglist generates a lot of comedy, farce and even tragedy. And lot of people complain online about their Craigslist experience. But I will share some my good experience here.
   
  Good encounter 1: I bought a NAD receiver and CD, cassette player in April. The seller brought them to me when he travelled to my city . We met airport and no way I can check them. After I got home, I found out that CD, Cassette player didn't work. I emailed him and he said he would send me a check. Two weeks later, I cashed the check. All I know about the seller is his email address and his phone number.
   
  Good encounter 2: I bought a receiver from a old gent. He received triple price offer when I drove to his place. But he refused them and kept the price for me.
   
  Good encounter 3, I picked up Cambridge Audio Azur 540d and Bose 9.1 speakers free even though the posters received cash offers.
   
  Yes, I maybe lucky since I haven't met some dorks or weirdos on Craiglist yet. I once sold an audio component to an old couple and they mailed me $40 check later.


----------



## Skylab

I have had only good experiences with the things I have bought on Craigslist.  But then again, I have only bought things that I felt were a good price and where I knew very well what I was buying.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Great piece, I have one too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Awesome!  I think these receivers are kind of rare and from what I gather rather underrated.  Thanks for the tip on RS I'll try to check if I get the time.  Are you using yours seriously for speaker duty?  I have Athena floorstanders hooked up with them and I think it's a pretty decent sound but I'm not a huge speaker guy yet.


----------



## 5aces

Meeting some of the people during the purchases is what makes collecting gear so great.
There is always a story to share about equipment we have owned or would like to find.

Overall,via eBay,AudiogoN,Canuck Audio Mart,Kijiji,Craigslist,Vintage Retail Shops,Yard Sales and word of mouth referral I have yet to be disappointed.
Good communications and yes,some good old fashioned luck both played their part.

It took a long time to build my practical audio experiences.
Being a teenager in the 1970's and actually seeing the models come out as new sure helps today.
I know the sound well,as my friends and I all tried to build our version of the "killer system" with allegiance to the top brands of the day. 

Speaker and Amplifier wars were epic.
Starting out,I used plenty of coat hanger aerials,vice grip knobs and was estatic to get a bashed up amplifier from someone's older brother.
Hanging out at the music store that rented gear,loading the biggest Traynor speakers into a pickup truck and all heading back to the farm I lived on for those bonfire music parties.

Music pushed out into the open air of the country,the O.P.P (troopers) stopping in asking us to turn it down a bit,the neighbours say you're scaring the horses...


----------



## Meewoo

@5acers,
   
  LOL, what a experience!!!!!!! Now you only see youth play COD.
   
  @Mr, Sneis
  Luxman R-117 is not underrated, people in AK think it's definitely one of top three receivers in 80's. Just here we don't talk black piece a lot, Rex praised his Yamaha R-9 a lot in this thread but just didn't get much feedback. I picked R-8 recently and found it really sound good, I think it sounds better than my Yamaha CA-2010 due to newer capacitors. I use R-117 driving my JBL L-7 or Magnasphere Gamma speakers. When I listen to headphones, I use my Luxman L-85v. integrate and Luxman T-100 tuner.  Go Luxman!!!


----------



## AirForceTeacher

Big ups to John Marks from Sterophile - after he helped me score some very nice store demo speakers for 1/3 list price, he recommended I find a nice vintage amp to drive them, so I surfed eBay til I found this.  It's T/U at the moment - no audio from speakers or headphone jack, but I hope to get it up and running again for my den.


----------



## ardgedee

The 80s were the tail end of the era of interesting experiments in consumer audio. Switchable class-A modes, tubes added purely for flavoring the sound (or, as some would have it, to take the transistor edge off), ridiculously high power ratings on small chassis (Carver), ridiculously low-power ratings on high-quality chassis (NAD/Rotel/ADCOM), DIY systems (Heathkit), and also some gimmicky stuff (heh). The weirdness gradually went away, companies went out of business.
   
  Stuff from the 70s was built like tanks. Stereo is stereo, after all. Some of the 80s gimmicks had intrinsic value, some didn't and were meant mostly to cover for the declining quality under the hood, but among other things manufacturers had trapped themselves into trying to convince people away from their massive, enduring 70s kit to buy something sleek, black, glowing, and weighing about a quarter as much. Not necessarily an easy task in the best of times, but harder when the equipment's obviously not as massive.
   
  From our perspective of today, you can count on any 1970s near-TOTL receiver from a major brand as being a predictably good find. Some models are unserviceable these days due to obsoleted components, some have more appealing sound signatures than others, but none of them sound bad or are built badly. Equipment from the 80s is mixed in quality and often flimsier. There's gold among the dross but it requires a more discerning eye and unlike the 70s receivers you can't count on something being better just because it's bigger.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> @5acers,LOL, what a experience!!!!!!! Now you only see youth play COD.




It happened to be my time and I sure had fun being there.
We all made the rounds to each others rooms at home,then college or apartments as we grew up.
Everyone I knew had their favoite guitar player's poster on the wall,some good lighting and a tricked out sound system.
Top guys had Reel to Reel with separates,arguments even then about Vinyl vs.Tape and Receivers vs.Integrateds.

Four or five guys and sometimes a couple girls all jamming in a friends room amid beer and thick smoke,best of times that will remain with me forever.

I know a bit about youth as I've raised a couple through recent teenage years.
It really isn't so different,I used to run around with a gang of guys,hang out at the local pool hall,tried be a hustler and generally ended up dumping quarters into a pinball machine.

Later as a parent,I was forced to keep up tech wise,as I had to keep three PC's running at home,get the latest games installed,keep their iTunes stuff straightened out.
I watched the demise of my audio world as I knew it,the young people all passed through the house with MP3 players and IEM's.
They do not know what to make of two channel stereo sound,as they have for the most part,only heard 5.1 surround sound via speakers.

One of the nicest tributes to vintage gear came from a young woman that lives upstairs from me and wanted to see my place.
No sooner did she set eyes on the vintage sound system,out came an exasperated squeal exclaiming "Oh My God,that sound system is just so beautiful".
She sat in the one of the twin recliners and put her feet up,still banjo eyed.
She exclaimed "You know,this says a lot about you" 
"How would that be?" I asked.
"It shows you really know how to live your life and you really love your music"

We played songs until very late into the night...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The 80s were the tail end of the era of interesting experiments in consumer audio. Switchable class-A modes, tubes added purely for flavoring the sound (or, as some would have it, to take the transistor edge off), ridiculously high power ratings on small chassis (Carver), ridiculously low-power ratings on high-quality chassis (NAD/Rotel/ADCOM), DIY systems (Heathkit), and also some gimmicky stuff (heh). The weirdness gradually went away, companies went out of business.
> 
> Stuff from the 70s was built like tanks. Stereo is stereo, after all. Some of the 80s gimmicks had intrinsic value, some didn't and were meant mostly to cover for the declining quality under the hood, but among other things manufacturers had trapped themselves into trying to convince people away from their massive, enduring 70s kit to buy something sleek, black, glowing, and weighing about a quarter as much. Not necessarily an easy task in the best of times, but harder when the equipment's obviously not as massive.
> 
> From our perspective of today, you can count on any 1970s near-TOTL receiver from a major brand as being a predictably good find. Some models are unserviceable these days due to obsoleted components, some have more appealing sound signatures than others, but none of them sound bad or are built badly. Equipment from the 80s is mixed in quality and often flimsier. There's gold among the dross but it requires a more discerning eye and unlike the 70s receivers you can't count on something being better just because it's bigger.


 



 x2!!!
   
  We need do more homework about 80's stuff. My earlier 80's Kenwood KR-8050 build quality is far behind my KR-9400, very thin wood case, total plastic knobs and more integrated parts.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> One of the nicest tributes to vintage gear came from a young woman that lives upstairs from me and wanted to see my place.
> No sooner did she set eyes on the vintage sound system,out came an exasperated squeal exclaiming "Oh My God,that sound system is just so beautiful".
> She sat in the one of the twin recliners and put her feet up,still banjo eyed.
> She exclaimed "You know,this says a lot about you"
> ...


 

 What a good night with beautiful music and lovely girl!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





airforceteacher said:


> Big ups to John Marks from Sterophile - after he helped me score some very nice store demo speakers for 1/3 list price, he recommended I find a nice vintage amp to drive them, so I surfed eBay til I found this.  It's T/U at the moment - no audio from speakers or headphone jack, but I hope to get it up and running again for my den.


 
  I grabbed a CR 820 locally for $75.  Works and sounds great.  Only thing about it is that it is so big I can't use it because it's too big for my audio rack.  I love the tone controls.


----------



## 5aces

RE: Luxman R-117 75 Ohm FM tuner input.



meewoo said:


> You can use the TV antenna on them, check your local RS, they have clearance sale not long time ago!!




Are you currently running the Radio Shack TV antenna into this?

I have a Marantz 2285 Receiver that I use for tuner duty,it has both hookups.

*"Make sure the indoor VHF (rabbit ear) antenna you're using is not equipped with a filter (also called a 'trap'). 
Filters on indoor VHF antennas work to reduce interference from signals in the FM radio band. 
But you want to be able to receive these frequencies, not block them. 
Read the specifications for the brand and model of your antenna. 
Sometimes the specs will indicate that the antenna is able to receive FM signals, or that the antenna comes with an FM filter."*

Easy to get a Balun ( 300 Ohm flat wire[balanced] to 75 Ohm coax [unbalanced] input converter) *OR* 300 > 75 matching transformer:
  

Hook to an FM Dipole Antenna,admittedly not for everyone but I have one on the wall behind my system anyhow,most inexpensive way to get FM...


----------



## Meewoo

Yes, I hooked my ATI HDTV antenna with R-117. It works better than both my 350ohn T-shape with 75ohm adapter and powered Trek antenna. Trek can pick a lot of stations, but has more noise on strong signal stations (I am in the city).


----------



## 5aces

mr.sneis said:


> Thanks for the tip on RS I'll try to check if I get the time.




OK,that is still different than the Radio Shack TV Rabbit Ears recommended to Mr. Sneis.

I was curious to know about that antenna specifically.


----------



## Meewoo

I don't know the tech specifics of the antenna, but RS clean out  the antenna says something UHF and FM. And they have the coaxial connector, so I assume ti will work. They are definitely not antenna for digital signals, that's why RS put it on clearance. I don't know much about these things, so please correct me if I am wrong.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW, which set up is your favorite, Yamaha ( forgot your high-end set up, are they C2 and B2?) or Sansui C&B 2000?


----------



## 5aces

Well,it is nice to get some FM stations indoors,especially if your receiver is not hooked up to a PC for internet radio.
Interesting that your ATI TV Tuner card antenna would be best for FM.
I hope Mr.Sneis looks at his rabbit ears for an FM filter before picking them up.

Regarding the 1975 Yamaha C-1 and B-1(160W),when matched to the 1976 Yamaha NS-1000 speakers it is *THE* nicest sounding vintage system I have assembled to date.
Next I would liike to say that I like music loud at times.
Here I feel the NS 1000's are king,one of the best small monitors ever built. 
Uncommonly clear, powerful and dynamic,one of the very few speaker units besides high end JBL that sounds like real,live music and not a speaker box (relative to vintage).
Sound best with mids about 8 feet from your head (app. 45 cm off the ground).

Sansui units I zero in on are from 1975-1979,personal preference.
A CA 3000 Preamplifier and matching BA 5000 (300W) Power Amplifier is still a quest of mine.
I find that the separates are better sounding when all is up to spec. 
The Sansui AU 20000 Integrated Amplifier is the combination of the CA 3000 Preamplifier and BA 3000 (170W) Power Amplifier.
The Sansui AU 11000 Integrated Amplifier is the combination of the CA 2000 Preamplifier and BA 2000 (110W) Power Amplifier.

Sansui volume circuits come on louder than the Yamaha.
I have to move Sansui Amplifiers (170W) off some speakers.
When the room is small,you will be blown away by a small turn on the volume control,which is louder than Yamaha.
In some cases I had to use the 10 db mute to achieve the sound I was looking for on the Sansui with some speakers (headphones too). 

Until I try the Sansui CA 3000/BA 5000 combo with some JBL 250ti speakers,the Yamaha set rules the roost over here...


----------



## sluker

Do you find that using the 20 db mute takes away some of the fidelity? When Driving my HE-6's through the speaker taps of the AU-717 if I use the 20 db muting I think it slightly reduces the impact of the lows (after volume matching). Or I could be just hearing things
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> In some cases I had to use the 20 db mute to achieve the sound I was looking for on the Sansui with some speakers (headphones too).


----------



## 5aces

Yes,on the Integrated AU 20000 (170W) I did not prefer to mute to get the volume control in line but you just couldn't get that nice,fine low sound one requires on certain tracks without hitting the switch sometimes.
My correction is the AU 20000 has 10db *and* 30db mute settings.The CA 2000 has the 20db only.

I want the amplifier to "get it" with the first quarter turn,headphones or speakers...
We both know that MUTE switch is really there to temporarily silence the amp without modifying the volume setting. 
Plenty of headfiers will be hitting on the MUTE switch for some of their tracks,I'm sure.
Just as long as I don't have to do it often,I am OK with it.

That is why I love my separates,I can swap in a less powerful amplifier.
I still swear by the volume control of the CA 2000 Preamplifier or AU 11000 Integrated. 
I am fortunate to have the option of moving to another amp to get the proper volume for a song.
The long answer to your question is yes,I felt that the mute did not deliver like an amp that wasn't switched or I wouldn't bother going to all the trouble of moving to another amp.
Really,you would need to sit down with two identical amplifiers and headsets and A/B mute ON and OFF.What are the chances,heh heh?

Heaven forbid if a toddler or just some dufus comes in your dark listening room while you have the headphones or speakers turned up HIGH and flips the MUTE to *0db*,I have seen speakers jump in the air when that happens...


----------



## sling5s

There are so many vintage receivers.  Just Marantz alone, so many models. I used to have a Marantz but forgot what model it was. 
  What are some good (low) budget vintage receivers with good headphone out for a RS1i.  Looking for a warm vintage amp with good current to give it some bass for the Grados.  
   
  thanks


----------



## treal512

I bought the Marantz 2275!
   
  There are a few very very minor blemishes on the unit, but overall, I'd give it a conservative 9/10 for condition. The owner was right too, he said it had no distortion or noise, and it doesn't. I figured because he wasn't listening to headphones with it he would have missed it, but nope.. dead silent. It's so weird though, the receiver is the same size as my HK730, but it weighs almost twice as much!! If not careful, it can make my LCD-2s rumble a bit more than I'd like at higher output levels. What a beast this thing is. I'm going to give the outside a good cleaning now and I'll get around to cleaning the internals and fixing the broken lamp later. The gauge color is gorgeous.


----------



## treal512

Btw, what does the tone mode do, anyone? Skylab?


----------



## Skylab

Tone mode allows you to chose different points at which the bass and treble controls become effective, or turn the tone controls off altogether.
   
  And congrats, the 2275 is an excellent receiver!


----------



## treal512

Oh, alright. Thanks! Fiddling with it now, the receiver sounds best on 4k and doesn't want to play very nice on OFF. This 2275 has definitely bumped my HK730 because of the noise I'm getting in the left channel. Ahh well, once finals are over I'm going to town on 3 receiver internals 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'll probably just replace the 2275 lamp for now and may look to the LED upgrade later. This thing sounds great! So nice to have crystal clear sound. The HK was starting to drive me nuts.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I bought the Marantz 2275!
> 
> There are a few very very minor blemishes on the unit, but overall, I'd give it a conservative 9/10 for condition. The owner was right too, he said it had no distortion or noise, and it doesn't. I figured because he wasn't listening to headphones with it he would have missed it, but nope.. dead silent. It's so weird though, the receiver is the same size as my HK730, but it weighs almost twice as much!! If not careful, it can make my LCD-2s rumble a bit more than I'd like at higher output levels. What a beast this thing is. I'm going to give the outside a good cleaning now and I'll get around to cleaning the internals and fixing the broken lamp later. The gauge color is gorgeous.


 

 Very nice, is the right meter bulb out?


----------



## treal512

Yeah, it's out. I need to buy some bulbs, but I don't really know where to start, tbh. Looks like the TAPE 1 bulb is out too. Not much of a problem though


----------



## Skylab

If you search eBay you will find the lamps you seek.  For the ones that are fuse-style and can just pop in and out, you might as well go straight to LED.  As for the ones that require soldering on the board, you have to decide if you are comfortable doing that, but that isn't simple.


----------



## publicholiday

Hi, any thoughts for yamaha cr 1020?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> Hi, any thoughts for yamaha cr 1020?


 


  Proud owner here. Good amp section with detailed, neutral but not bright tone. Tuner part may be tricky, my cr-820 and Cr-1020 both have difficulty to tune in, or both my units are faulty. Some like Yammy sound lot, some just hate it.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Figured out my Marantz left channel crackle isn't due to the stereo relay, the problem is somewhere before the power amp, which narrows it down to...pretty much everything else (switchboards, tone control board, preamp, etc. It could be a bad capacitor, cold solder joint, or a faulty transistor. I guess all I can do is clean all the switches (for the umpteenth time), start switching out capacitors, and testing transistors. It's going to be a long road for sure, because the 2245 case is kind of stuffed, and a lot of boards have to be removed to see all of the boards under them. Sounds like that will be my winter-break project. I even checked to see if the screw under the tape relay was grounding it out, but it doesn't seem to be so simple an issue.
   
  What are you guy's opinions of wiring up connectors to the wires on the boards, so they can be unplugged instead of needing to be desoldered for repair? More hassle than it's worth?


----------



## ardgedee

I'm starting to feel like there should be a vintage receiver wiki.
   
  There are a couple sites already set up for cataloging old equipment but some are abandoned and others require membership or money to access detailed info. Bah.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Treal nice 2275 I wasted about 3 months trying to hunt down a good example Marantz and came up empty.  I didn't want to overspend though, some guys listed theirs for serious $$$.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> Hi, any thoughts for yamaha cr 1020?


 

 You've already got some input, but I'd also recommend searching Google for your model number. More often than not, you can find some valuable information by digging through those results.
    
   
  Quote:


ardgedee said:


> I'm starting to feel like there should be a vintage receiver wiki.
> 
> There are a couple sites already set up for cataloging old equipment but some are abandoned and others require membership or money to access detailed info. Bah.


 

 But that makes too much sense! I agree wholeheartedly. The information online is so spread out. Sometimes it is really hard to just find the weight or dimensions of a receiver, let alone the typical problems and sound signature.

  
  Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Treal nice 2275 I wasted about 3 months trying to hunt down a good example Marantz and came up empty.  I didn't want to overspend though, some guys listed theirs for serious $$$.


 

 Thanks! I was really happy to find it locally (auditioned at length) in near excellent condition physically, but the cherry on top is that there's no sonic distortion whatsoever. What prices were you seeing in AZ? Or are you meaning eBay? I'm not reserved in saying what I paid for mine. I got it for $300 and the guy picked me up, dropped me off, and hand-delivered it into my apartment lol


----------



## GWN

My little slice of heaven. My new MAC 4100.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





gwn said:


> My little slice of heaven. My new MAC 4100.


 

 Wow, First McIntosh receiver in this thread. Fresh look!!


----------



## GWN

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Wow, First McIntosh receiver in this thread. Fresh look!!


 


   
  Very clean. The tuner is amazing. Finally something that sings with my LCD 2.


----------



## cifani090

@GWN, nice MAC, $1000 not too bad for one of them
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Here is a Chinese restaurant that serves customers food as they listen to vinyl being played on vintage tube gear, great tube video!


----------



## GWN

I got it for $800.  Still a lot of money.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





gwn said:


> I got it for $800.  Still a lot of money.


 

 Ok, i was looking at them online. I like the wood case, dont really care for the push buttons, but it's a McIntosh...


----------



## ardgedee

Very handsome! That's the only McIntosh I've ever seen with standard diode LEDs for the VU meter. Not that I've seen a lot of McIntosh receivers.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





gwn said:


> My little slice of heaven. My new MAC 4100.


 

 The condition looks superb. Very nice. It has its own unique elegant look. I don't know much about McIntosh other than $$$, haha.
   
   
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> @GWN, nice MAC, $1000 not too bad for one of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That is too rad! I love how much equipment he has and how he switches sources/amps for different albums. Not even including the soldering work, that takes it to another level.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> @GWN, nice MAC, $1000 not too bad for one of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One correction, it's a *Japanese* one. We all know Japanese are fetish with tube and JBL!!


----------



## RexAeterna

yea that is defiantly japanese. it's easy to tell by the language spoken,the characters/writing and the women,yes women. lot of japanese females have very pretty cat like eyes. that's another reason i like lot of japanese is the eye features of the women. some reason i find the cat eyes very attractive.


alright then,enough of my being off the subject.


----------



## cifani090

Yup, sorry it was Japanese. Here's his website to see his gear list.


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful looking McI, GWN.  Congrats.


----------



## Mr. Morden

Quote:


gwn said:


> My little slice of heaven. My new MAC 4100.


 

  Hmm, seeing that reminds me of a McIntosh receiver I was very tempted to buy - but didn't want to spend the money on, the later successor to the model you have there: The Mac 4300V

   
  I almost had a Mac 4100 like you showed as well, however something seemed horribly amiss with the tuning section and it had some other quirks I wasn't comfortable with. Pretty looking stuff, but inordinately expensive IMO. The 4300V was I think $3,000 or something in 1988 (Had a remote as well) and still seems to carry a value around $1,800 give or take. I have lots of vintage gear, never really tried using my headphones on any of them though since I was always under the impression that the headphone jack on the front of receivers/amps was no good for sound quality (Plus all the gear I have that's vintage is rather high wattage - was under the impression low wattage amps/receivers did better with headphones than high wattage). It's in need of repairs (to I believe the preamp section - haven't fully troubleshooted it) but I'd love to try out some headphones on my Pioneer Series 20 A-27 integrated amp - has crazy low THD and power ratings

   
  I will say I picked up one of these guys from a thrift store, a very early 70's JVC piece and it was the first time I noticed listening to headphones on it that it sounded better than my Denon receiver (Which is not an entry level or anything - but likely still has a crummy chip amp for the headphone output, model is AVR-4802 if anyone knows for sure). I sold it some time back, but that was the first time I noticed the difference. I think it was like 30 watts per channel or so, not a whole lot but it was a warm sounded little thing.

   
  I've been thinking about buying a dedicated headphone amp for my PC - but I've certainly wondered about using vintage stereo gear like this instead. I can find this kind of stuff way easier and cheaper than headphone amps, that's for sure. This was my latest one, Kenwood KR-8010. I think this would be vast overkill for headphones @ 125 wpc, but I'm normally a speaker guy so I don't know as much about headphones and what they do on these receivers. Anyone fill me in as to ups and downsides of using vintage receivers/amps for headphones instead of dedicated headphone amps?


----------



## singh

I'd love to hear that a-27.
   
  i am looking to buy one , but its very hard to find.


----------



## sling5s

Need Help.  I found a Pioneer receiver SX-737 and Yamaha CR-420 (meant to drive orthodynamic headphones).  Which should I buy for my Grado RS1i?


----------



## ardgedee

The Yamaha headphone jacks work the same as anybody else's. The "Designed for Yamaha orthodynamic headphones" was to help sell more Yamaha orthos.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Need Help.  I found a Pioneer receiver SX-737 and Yamaha CR-420 (meant to drive orthodynamic headphones).  Which should I buy for my Grado RS1i?


 
  General speaking, Pioneer sounds a little warmer than Yammy. It all depends on your need. Building quality, 737 is much better than 420. 737 is in the middle of x3x line, 420 is the lowest model if I am right. (edited: found out there was CR-220!!) But 420 has two headphone ports which can be very handy sometimes.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Need Help.  I found a Pioneer receiver SX-737 and Yamaha CR-420 (meant to drive orthodynamic headphones).  Which should I buy for my Grado RS1i?


 

 I do with the Pioneer, which is neutral and will tone town the RS1i's and make them less warm but better sonic bliss!


----------



## sling5s

Thanks everyone.  I went and got the Pioneer SX-737 for $39 at thrift store and I'm cleaning it. 
  I had the Marantz 2230b once.  Hope the sound is comparable or better.
   
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I do with the Pioneer, which is neutral and will tone town the RS1i's and make them less warm but better sonic bliss!


 
   
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> General speaking, Pioneer sounds a little warmer than Yammy. It all depends on your need. Building quality, 737 is much better than 420. 737 is in the middle of x3x line, 420 is the lowest model if I am right. (edited: found out there was CR-220!!) But 420 has two headphone ports which can be very handy sometimes.


----------



## treal512

Congrats, nice find!


----------



## Wharfrat

Treal512:  On account of your past rave re: the HK 730, I picked one up over the weekend off CriagsList for $60.  I would rate it 7/10 cosmetically due to some scratches in the metal casing and on the plastic glass panel and a slight bend in the lower right aluminum faceplate, but functionally, other than the FM output not working, it was in very clean working condition.  I found the headphone output much more delightful with the 730 compared to the 430 I heard at a meet in August, but with the Pioneer SX-1250 to compare with, one can clearly tell it suffered from not having that extra power.  The Pioneer was simply much more imaged, with juicy, fat, luscious notes, each and every one of them.  The HK is a more relaxing sounding amp and seemed to have a blacker background because low level notes sounded low relative to other sounds in the mix but still "there".  I would surmise the Marantz 2275 you got (congrats, BTW and at a fair price, too) must be a HK on steroids, so I am also now looking at that as my next upgrade path.  Either that or a McIntosh....
   
  Yesterday, I scored a Pioneer A35 turntable (sans dustcover) for $35, without the PC-50 cartridge and headshell at this second hand vintage collectible store. (I thanked the missus for "giving" it to me for my birthday, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )  The wood casing was near-perfect condition and the SX-1250/TT combo put a banana in my pants since I have this freak for straight grain walnut.  The second hand store owner is a true audiophile and knew alot about various turntable makes and had a PC-50 and headshell on hand and threw it in for another $35....plus tax.   I can only count my lucky stars the guy also had the counterweight to go with it.  It is yet to be setup as I need to study the owner's manual. I know nada about this rather exotic path I am taking, but I got almost every Dead or related LP ever made, including the rare avant-garde album Phil Lesh recorded called "Seastones" and I have a high quality pressing of Steely Dan's "Aja"...
   
  Anybody got an opinion on the Pioneer A35 TT?  I know Skylab and a few of youse guys have Pioneer TTs.


----------



## publicholiday

Have you guys tried bi amping with vintage amp or receiver?


----------



## 5aces

Biamping can offer some benefits in the right set-up,in most every instance the listener is better served by using the funds to upgrade components in the system.

In a vintage speaker system this usually means bypassing the internal passive crossover,which requires work inside the speaker.
There is significant expense in hardware:the additional amplifiers and crossover,not to mention the extra cables required.

You can use 2 separate stereo amplifiers and 'horizontally' bi-amplify your speakers (if they provide bi-wiring posts).

Monoblocks are great above a certain budget level.

Multi amping ,using one channel of a stereo amp per speaker (without bridging),provides little sonic benefit,allowing more headroom in the volume,as you split the load between speakers.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Biamping can offer some benefits in the right set-up,in most every instance the listener is better served by using the funds to upgrade components in the system.
> In a vintage speaker system this usually means bypassing the internal passive crossover,which requires work inside the speaker.
> There is significant expense in hardware:the additional amplifiers and crossover,not to mention the extra cables required.
> You can use 2 separate stereo amplifiers and 'horizontally' bi-amplify your speakers (if they provide bi-wiring posts).
> ...


 

 Mono-blocks are great to what budget? Personally id like to know, and they are (vintage) very hard to find.


----------



## sling5s

Thanks.  The Pioneer SX-737 is really sounding great.  Can't believe something so old sounds so pure and clean.  Really has amazing clear mids.
  It's making me want the SX-1010 or SX-1250, not that I need that much power for low impedance cans.  I nor longer have hard to drive headphones like LCD-2 or HD800 but just having a taste of the Pioneer SX series makes me want more. It's definitely a more cleaner sounding headphone amp than the Marantz 2230b that I had long ago. 
   
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> Congrats, nice find!


----------



## 5aces

cifani090 said:


> Mono-blocks are great to what budget? Personally id like to know, and they are (vintage) very hard to find.




Great for a *large* budget.
McIntosh MC 40 with 6L6GC Power Tubes and a pair of Tannoys for me.

You determine what is large for yourself.

Go Western Electric and see how that is.


----------



## gurus

Just got this in yesterday to drive my HE-6.
   
   

   
   
   
   

   
   
  Even the meter bulbs work!


----------



## Meewoo

CA-1000?  Nice grab!
   
  @5aces
   
  Could you give some opinions on the S.A.E mark IXB pre-amp and IVC power-amp? After I did some deoxide, I hooked them up with my speakers and they sounds fantastic. My other integrated amp and receivers are not in the same league with them. They just sounds cleaner and clearer. The intervals of music bits are totally silent witch make music more spacious and dynamic. I think they should be in the same league with your Yammy and Sansui separates.
  When you said Sansui CA-2000 is totally silent, did you mean you couldn't here anything from speakers if no signal fed in? I can hear some tiny zzzz sound when I close my eras to speakers. What should I do to this sound if it can be eliminated? Thanks!


----------



## gurus

CA-1010  !


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





gurus said:


> CA-1010  !


 

 Oh, my bad. From picture, your volume knob seems little than my 1010. So I guess it was 1000! 
   
  Hope can hear your impression with HE-6!


----------



## Mr. Morden

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Biamping can offer some benefits in the right set-up,in most every instance the listener is better served by using the funds to upgrade components in the system.
> In a vintage speaker system this usually means bypassing the internal passive crossover,which requires work inside the speaker.
> There is significant expense in hardware:the additional amplifiers and crossover,not to mention the extra cables required.


 
   
  So then a piece of gear like this would be useful for doing what you described, yes?

  (Pioneer D-23 Active Crossover)


----------



## Meewoo

Did anyone buy http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0MC06T0932&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=404255&SID=225250
   
   Power Output  120W x 7     Weight  13.2 lbs.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> @5aces
> Could you give some opinions on the S.A.E mark IXB pre-amp and IVC power-amp?
> I can hear some tiny zzzz sound when I close my ears to speakers. What should I do to this sound if it can be eliminated? Thanks.




I have not heard your 1974-1977 S.A.E. set but certainly am aware of the brand.
American home brewed solid state amplifiers that aimed to eclipse Marantz and McIntosh for sound,especially in the early Seventies.

Two really nice pieces from the best years with a new retail of $450 for the IVC power amp and $400 for the IXB pre.
It would be a stretch for these to scale up to the 1975 Yamaha C-1 & B-1.
Even the Sansui had a list of $600 for the BA 2000 power amp and $440 for the CA 2000 pre in 1977.
This might be a fair comparison and I would enjoy a vintage shoot out between the two.
S.A.E.was a two man band I believe and didn't have the massive resources of the big players,which certainly didn't stop them from cranking out some righteous amplifiers.
Coincidentally,when the company tried to appeal to the masses,it was the beginning of the end.

When I say the Sansui CA preamplifier is dead silent with no signal,right-that means no buzz through the headphone circuit board or speakers.
No signal or noise should be present at the preamp outputs if the output selector is set to 'off'.
Signal should not be leaking through the preamp outputs when the input selector is switched around.
If you have a hum through your speakers when the volume is turned up,try unplugging the RCA source and see if it goes away.
I just _know _you are using good,shielded RCA cables from your source.
The fabled Hum & Buzz can be testy to nail down.
I use a Furman power conditioner and PS audio power bar to keep the the wall outlet power in check.

Common causes of noise and intermittent problems:
-Dirty connections. 
-Poorly made terminals, inexpensive RCA jacks often fit poorly enough to cause a buzz or hum. 
-Poorly terminated connections. Cold solder joints, loose fitting terminals. 
-Poorly shielded cables picking up noise from RF or house main electrical. 
-Cables picking up noise from AC extension cords. Move cables or cross at right angles. 
-Check the polarity of the outlet - it may be wired backwards.
-Light dimmers, flourescent lamps, and other appliances that share the same circuit or common ground with your audio equipment can cause hums.
-Check to see if you have an outlet in the wall that is worn out and will not grip. 
If the hot/neutral/ground prongs on the plug and ground are making intermittent or light contact with the tang on the inside of the outlet, it can cause a hum through the system.
Not much need to go beyond spec grade (Hubbel Commercial) when replacing a receptacle.

Welcome to the notorious ground loop zone. 



mr. morden said:


> So then a piece of gear like this would be useful for doing what you described, yes?(Pioneer D-23 Active Crossover)




In 1977 biamping wasn't on my mind but sure was for some folks.
Yes,that D-23 would permit multi channel amplification to drive multi way speaker systems (2/3/4-way).

Interesting first patent for the Multiple Driver Dynamic Loudspeaker circa 1974. 
http://tinyurl.com/7qvw4ws

3-way speakers really became popular during the 1980's.
In today's world,you could have some great fun with a tube XM126 crossover from http://www.marchandelec.com/
These guys have been at it for a while now,again note:this kind of approach mandates _deep_ pockets


----------



## AirForceTeacher

So if I wanted to troubleshoot my amp's lack of sound (through both headphones and speakers) where would I look first.  My wife did say there was a thunderclap be fore it stopped working (outside), but it worked for a few minutes a couple days later and then stopped working again.  I moved a week or two after that so it's been shoved to the side.
   
  Could it be as simple as a fuse?


----------



## mr.khali

Quote: 





gurus said:


> Just got this in yesterday to drive my HE-6.


 

 I love the look of this amp.  I may pick one up myself.  How does it sound?


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Treal512:  On account of your past rave re: the HK 730, I picked one up over the weekend off CriagsList for $60.  I would rate it 7/10 cosmetically due to some scratches in the metal casing and on the plastic glass panel and a slight bend in the lower right aluminum faceplate, but functionally, other than the FM output not working, it was in very clean working condition.  I found the headphone output much more delightful with the 730 compared to the 430 I heard at a meet in August, but with the Pioneer SX-1250 to compare with, one can clearly tell it suffered from not having that extra power.  The Pioneer was simply much more imaged, with juicy, fat, luscious notes, each and every one of them.  The HK is a more relaxing sounding amp and seemed to have a blacker background because low level notes sounded low relative to other sounds in the mix but still "there".  I would surmise the Marantz 2275 you got (congrats, BTW and at a fair price, too) must be a HK on steroids, so I am also now looking at that as my next upgrade path.  Either that or a McIntosh....


 

 Haha, compared to the SX-1250? Ridiculous 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 One of these days, one of these days! As for the HK sound, that sounds right on. I also agree with the 2275 being similar with more oomph, but I have yet to A/B the units because of some distortion in the left channel of the HK. I know weight isn't everything, but this Marantz alone is double the weight of the HK730. I think that alone says something in itself 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for sharing your impressions. I'm looking forward to your next purchase!


  Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Thanks.  The Pioneer SX-737 is really sounding great.  Can't believe something so old sounds so pure and clean.  Really has amazing clear mids.
> It's making me want the SX-1010 or SX-1250, not that I need that much power for low impedance cans.  I nor longer have hard to drive headphones like LCD-2 or HD800 but just having a taste of the Pioneer SX series makes me want more. It's definitely a more cleaner sounding headphone amp than the Marantz 2230b that I had long ago.


 

 What cans are you using with the unit? I'd argue that while the Marantz isn't as "clean" sounding, it more or less compliments the Pioneer sound signature. I wouldn't really say one is better or worse, unless you start comparing different tier models.


----------



## gurus

Quote: 





mr.khali said:


> I love the look of this amp.  I may pick one up myself.  How does it sound?


 

 I just got my other integrated amp in a few hours ago. It's in bad shape cosmetically. Will be spending the weekend comparing the two. Only one stays- wife rule(s).
   
  Initial impressions- Yamaha has more fuller sound-rounded midrange - typical Yamaha sound sig while the Marantz is more neutral. Both operate in Class A for low power requirements-Yamaha puts out 24 watts (rated 20watts) and the Marantz       25-30 watts. I am leaning towards the Marantz for now as it is so different from my tube amp.


----------



## wualta

That Marantz is something special. Unless you have several stacked up in a closet, I advise keeping that one, telling the wife it doubles as a space heater. You can always go Yamaha-ing some other day.


----------



## BmWr75

Just picked up a NAD 1020 preamp to mate up with a NAD 2040 amp I've had a few years.  Nice sounding combo.
   
  HP outputs on both the preamp and amp.  The preamp has to be powered by opamp since there is no connection back to the pre from the amp outputs.


----------



## ardgedee

How is the headphone section on the NAD 2040? You don't often see speaker amps with headphone jacks.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Just picked up a NAD 1020 preamp to mate up with a NAD 2040 amp I've had a few years.  Nice sounding combo.


 


  The NAD 2040 should be twin mono design like 3140?? My 3140 is very nice sounding too, but may lack a little details.


----------



## Meewoo

Got two big receivers recently.
   
  Lafayette LR-120DB, Lafayette's biggest receiver, It was believed being made by Luxman. I haven't A/B compare with my R-1120 yet, but it sounds great.
   

  innards

   
  Another is "as is" from eBay, but everything is working except two bulbs and a missing knob. JVC JR-S501

  My JVC JR-S301 on top of JR-S501


----------



## 5aces

That 1978 S501 is really nice,22 inches wide?

Has the JVC-S.E.A ,an active equalizer instead of passive tone controls,less color on the sound and very effective with the 120W receiver.

Great find.
Knobless design,all pushbutton or sliders,except for the huge tuner adjustment.

How is the print on the faceplate? 
One downfall of sliders and dirty hands was the ink fade.

Most of this vintage stuff has steel RCA jacks that need cleaning to remove oxidation and that annoying buzz,did you ever trace it on your SAE set?

*P.S*.-it took a while but finally came back to me.
*S.E.A. *was developed by the RCA Victor Company (Japanese Victor Company) and stands for *S*ound *E*ffect *A*mplifier.
Set the standard for sound graphic equalizers (tone control system),still used on McIntosh equipment today.

Could be used to reduce tape hiss from cassettes or produce a desired sound for a recording.
Try this unique JVC feature on some speakers,you have an opportunity to compensate a _*lack*_ of sound segment spectrum or attenuate an _*excess*_,to your impression.
Depending on your listening room,the only precaution is to not exaggerate the extreme frequencies-have fun with that S.E.A option,I'd really like to know what you think of the sound!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> That 1978 S501 is really nice,22 inches wide?
> Has the JVC-S.E.A ,an active equalizer instead of passive tone controls,less color on the sound and very effective with the 120W receiver.
> Great find.
> Knobless design,all pushbutton or sliders,except for the huge tuner adjustment.
> ...


 
  Thanks!
   
  Yes, it's 22 inches wide. I don't know S. E. A too much, I never use them.  JR-S501 is like knew condition, the RCA connectors are still shinning and the volume scale print is there. But 301 losts the print. And I am very fond of JVC sound.
   
  I tried to eliminate the hum, but failed. I found out my newer Denon POA-2200 and B&K combo also  has the hum. So I will live with them. The buzz (or hum) is so tiny that I need to put my ears near the tweeters to hear it. Only tweeters produce buzz, not mid and woofer. Most of my receiver and integrated don't produce the buzz. I just don't know, may my RCA cables are not good enough??  I will try more in the holiday weekend to see what's the reason. Thanks again for your kind help!!!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> How is the headphone section on the NAD 2040? You don't often see speaker amps with headphone jacks.


 


  Just got a chance to test the HP out on both the NAD 1020 pre and 2040 amp.  The pre out sounds anemic with sloppy bass.  The amp out sounds great.  Am sure the pre uses opamps to power the HP out.  My guess is the amp uses the amplifier outputs padded down with resistors.


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Just got a chance to test the HP out on both the NAD 1020 pre and 2040 amp.  The pre out sounds anemic with sloppy bass.  The amp out sounds great.  Am sure the pre uses opamps to power the HP out.  My guess is the amp uses the amplifier outputs padded down with resistors.


 


  Weird isn't it? I Why bother putting a jack in it if it's not even worth using? My integrated 7240PE(s) sound great. Drive my K601's well


----------



## Wharfrat

While those NAD units would hardly qualify as vintage, what this thread has also been about is the quality of the HP output on various receivers, mostly vintage ones.  But since there are only a relative handful of vintage receivers that can pass muster with today's mid-fi amplifiers in the competition, sooner or later we will all run out of the list of usual suspects most of us can readily get ahold of and we keep returning to this thread to find out what some lucky bloke found along the backwall of some thrift store that satisfies the curiousity or lust of those of us less fortunate to be at the right place at the right time.
   
  So back to the NAD...I have an integrated 7225PE...gonna stick a quarter-incher in there and see what satisfaction I can get from something right under me nose thru a pair of K702s.  Hadn't thought it would do the trick since it only sports a middling 30 watts (but the HK730 at 40 watts (?) is dang loud at 10 o clock on the vol pot; so much for power ratings and amp output....). but NAD tends to be conservative in advertising their power ratings compared to the competition.
   
  Will report back....


----------



## RexAeterna

power rating won't tell if it will drive a headphone or not. doesn't really matter as well since headphones need very little power in the first place. if your worried about the resistors used at the headphone out, just power the headphones from the pre-out. it'll work too or use speaker outputs. all the resistors do is add the headphone out it's given output impedance for safety reasons since it's driven from the same power amp section. usually they had very high output impedances of 560-680ohms. some had 220 and lower as well but mostly the low powered amps(like 25wpc ones depending on brand/maker) did. just plug and play. you don't need to buy monster receivers to power headphones. what a waste of untapped power you can be using.


----------



## rulebyforce

the AU-717  is an awesome sounding amp. period.  Anyone with differing opinions either has never heard one, or has listened to one either not set up properly or broken.  Well worth buying for $99 and refurbishing....easy


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





rulebyforce said:


> the AU-717  is an awesome sounding amp. period.  Anyone with differing opinions either has never heard one, or has listened to one either not set up properly or broken.  Well worth buying for $99 and refurbishing....easy


 

 I will agree with that.  I have one that I had totally re-capped, re-furbed, glue removed, speaker posts installed, IEC plug installed, etc. for a second system and it sounds fantastic.  Awesome head-amp also.  Have about $500 in it now.  Probably have to spend better than 2K or more for a modern amp to best it.  IMHO of course....


----------



## BmWr75

What years were the 1020/2040 manufactured?  The only dates I could find in a Google search were 1979-1980.
  
  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> While those NAD units would hardly qualify as vintage, ........


----------



## Meewoo

I think NAD stuff with golden letters are before 1981. They just don't share vintage look, for me vintage look is associated with wooden case. BTW, is your 2040 twin mono design?


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> power rating won't tell if it will drive a headphone or not. doesn't really matter as well since headphones need very little power in the first place. if your worried about the resistors used at the headphone out, just power the headphones from the pre-out. it'll work too or use speaker outputs. all the resistors do is add the headphone out it's given output impedance for safety reasons since it's driven from the same power amp section. usually they had very high output impedances of 560-680ohms. some had 220 and lower as well but mostly the low powered amps(like 25wpc ones depending on brand/maker) did. just plug and play. you don't need to buy monster receivers to power headphones. what a waste of untapped power you can be using.


 


 I agree that power ratings alone are not surefire indicators of how well they will power most of the headphones out there, especially dynamic driver units. With respect to _most _dynamic driver units, your point is well taken.  But there is this experience of mine with the HK730 vs SX-1250 using the Thunderpants and HE-5s I have that leads me to think that power output does contribute to the "body" or robustness of certain frequencies, especially bass and midrange frequencies and to the imaging of instruments themselves.  The 730 just did not have the ability to drive those orthos, whereas the SX-1250 took them soaring.  Now, to be fair, the SX-1250 is near the TOTL in terms of build quality among the vintage units so there certainly are other factors that made it perform as well.  My deductive, but hardly educated, guess that power has something to do with it is bolstered somewhat by recent designs that have cropped up to drive the HE-6, namely the Lyr and the DarkStar units which are touted for their higher than usual output capacity.
   
  I am sure there are other factors at play to explain my experience...but being a simpleton in these dangerous times of complexity, perhaps a few simple rules of thumb can be a source of comfort, neh?
   
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think NAD stuff with golden letters are before 1981. They just don't share vintage look, for me vintage look is associated with wooden case. BTW, is your 2040 twin mono design?


 


 That was where I was coming from...the looks.  Had no idea the NAD "power envelope" design went back that far, to the late 70's.  My NAD 7225PE has the usual greyish NAD lettering and the condition on the unit is way tooooooo "fresh" to have been that old....


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Your 7225PE is probably late '80s very early '90's . Geeze guys I think a 24 year old piece of electronics is pretty "vintage" but whatever. Break out the 88 RPM records then with a vitrola horn.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


meewoo said:


> I think NAD stuff with golden letters are before 1981. They just don't share vintage look, for me vintage look is associated with wooden case. BTW, is your 2040 twin mono design?


 
   
  I like the styling of the old NAD systems. It's something you don't often see any more, even in current NAD product.
   
  The inspiration is Dieter Rams' work for Braun rather than American hi-fi, and if it doesn't look vintage it's because Rams' designs are timeless. The Braun examples below are from the early 60s and late 60s, respectively, but neither would look like throwbacks if you put 'em in stores today:
   

  Braun RT-20 triband radio
   

  Braun tuner (don't know the model number)
   

  A NAD 1020 and two 7020.
   
  Notice how the logos don't line up? That's because you'd never pair a 1020 (integrated amp) with a 7020 (receiver).
   
  However, if you stack a 1020 _3020_ with a 4020 (tuner)...

   
  That's why you hire industrial designers, folks! The details are the point!
   
  The earliest NAD products had the usual brushed aluminum faces and electronics-lab styling, but somewhere in the late 70s NAD rebooted itself. Not just the case designs, but the innards as well, favoring low-power amps with current reserve that it stuck with for years.
   
  (*Edit:* After posting I poked around Google Images to look at more NAD products, and it looks like the logo moved all over the faceplate over the years. So much for my original assertion. However, within any family of components intended to be matched, the logo and controls were positioned uniformly and designed to harmonize, down to the LED colors. I'll settle for claiming I'm half-right, and the design matters anyway...  )


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> I like the styling of the old NAD systems. It's something you don't often see any more, even in current NAD product.
> 
> ...


 
  Wow, I just notice the harmonic design of NAD after you pointed out. They really pay attention to details even though they don't have metal knobs.
   
  Those Braun look stunning! Is Braun the same company which made ADS speakers? Their Braun speakers are superb too!!!


----------



## 5aces

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd8xHo7bzYI&feature=channel_video_title[/VIDEO]

Worth a thousand words.

The single microphone gets overwhelmed by the Bass at times,all six speakers pushing sound. 
Neglected to set the focus properly on the camera,the angle is misleading as well,in terms of perspective.
Tone selectors were engaged on all preamplifiers +1 Treble/+2 Midrange/+1 Bass.
Best to use a separate recorder,PC cards are noisy for recordings.

Just to demonstrate what you can get out of these vintage pieces,I loaded one compilation file 16/44.1 @ 320kbps onto a FAT32 USB thumbdrive.
All original full version songs were recorded at the same rates using audio software to merge the five song intros into one file.
Plugged it into a Pioneer DVD player with a usb input that will play .mp3 @320kbps
S/PDIF out to the DAC,then into an RCA powered switchbox that allows all three preamplifiers to receive the same signal.
So,this should be as 'bad' as electronic files might be,yet the sound still rumbles out of the old gear with aplomb,I think.

Remember,the video was stripped of its original camera audio and the *'live'* audio recording of the Vintage Stereo was inserted.
Although the mic was six feet from the PC,there is still a bit of hiss,even though the MXL mic has XLR cable to the 1/4 inch jack on the front panel soundcard box.
For YouTube,the sound was downsampled to 192kbps and the video encoded in HD H.264/ MPEG-4 AVC Video (.mp4) @ 1280 * 720.

Headphones on,listen at 720HD.Enjoy.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> I like the styling of the old NAD systems. It's something you don't often see any more, even in current NAD product.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the insight, that stuff it very cool looking!
   
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> Worth a thousand words.
> The single microphone gets overwhelmed by the Bass at times,all six speakers pushing sound.
> Neglected to set the focus properly on the camera,the angle is misleading as well,in terms of perspective.
> Tone selectors were engaged on all preamplifiers +1 Treble/+2 Midrange/+1 Bass.
> ...


 

 Nice system, im waiting for another Sansui to fall from the sky and land on my Henredon.


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote:


themarkremains said:


> Your 7225PE is probably late '80s very early '90's . Geeze guys I think a 24 year old piece of electronics is pretty "vintage" but whatever. Break out the 88 RPM records then with a vitrola horn.


 

 Thanks for the guesstimate on when the 7225PE was made...sounds about right since the store I usually buy my second hand gear from has very few '70s-era products in stock and has usually had a good number of late '80s NAD units on hand for sale compared to other manufacturers. 
   
  As for when something could be considered "vintage", IIRC, some of the folks on this thread go by the "look" when defining what the term encompasses rather than just the year of make and as it so happens, most of the retro looks are pre-80's designs made in Japan but influenced by the Bauhaus School and European industrial designs to appeal to Westerners.  Also, some consideration is given to the vintage "sound" of those designs characterized by a warmer midrange tone or wider bandwidth, especially from SS amps. 
   
  So to sum it up, "vintage" in the context of receivers has alot to do with the eyes and the ears of the beholders, along with the age (and weight) of the units....
   
  Ardgedee: I am always amazed at your ability to pull audio arcana out of hats I never knew existed on the web....thanks for everything....


----------



## ardgedee

I enjoy doing it. This time I can blame my design training rather than any knowledge of electronics esoterica. Been fascinated by these things since I was a kid. I like the way new things look, but modern designs are the inheritors of classic designs, which I also like, and so it goes.
   
  Dieter Rams' career has been seeing renewed interest these days, partly because of the influences he's evidently had on Apple products (google up "iphone calculator braun", heh), and partly because of a documentary about industrial design made a couple years ago that prominently featured him.
   
  Bauhaus was an interesting phenomenon. It had a lot of influence on domestic tastes in Japan, too (where there had been a longstanding less-is-more esthetic in its design tradition), but I don't think that the Bauhaus design legacy had as long an influence on mass market items in the US as they did in Europe. If anything, it's only been trickling in relatively recently due to the success of Ikea and Apple, which leads to unrelated things being designed to appeal to people who like those things. That's probably better discussed on design-fi than here, though...


----------



## singh

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Worth a thousand words.
> The single microphone gets overwhelmed by the Bass at times,all six speakers pushing sound.
> Neglected to set the focus properly on the camera,the angle is misleading as well,in terms of perspective.
> Tone selectors were engaged on all preamplifiers +1 Treble/+2 Midrange/+1 Bass.
> ...


 
   is that a pioneer m25 ?
  how is it compared to the au-20000 ?


----------



## RexAeterna

wharfrat said:


> I agree that power ratings alone are not surefire indicators of how well they will power most of the headphones out there, especially dynamic driver units. With respect to _most_ dynamic driver units, your point is well taken.  But there is this experience of mine with the HK730 vs SX-1250 using the Thunderpants and HE-5s I have that leads me to think that power output does contribute to the "body" or robustness of certain frequencies, especially bass and midrange frequencies and to the imaging of instruments themselves.  The 730 just did not have the ability to drive those orthos, whereas the SX-1250 took them soaring.  Now, to be fair, the SX-1250 is near the TOTL in terms of build quality among the vintage units so there certainly are other factors that made it perform as well.  My deductive, but hardly educated, guess that power has something to do with it is bolstered somewhat by recent designs that have cropped up to drive the HE-6, namely the Lyr and the DarkStar units which are touted for their higher than usual output capacity.
> 
> I am sure there are other factors at play to explain my experience...but being a simpleton in these dangerous times of complexity, perhaps a few simple rules of thumb can be a source of comfort, neh?
> 
> ...




it's most likely a better preamp section. the preamp section is what colors or gives the amp it's specific sound that you like. it always goes through the preamp before the power amp section. higher priced units had better built in pre-amps inside since they were always ''separates'' in one chassis but had some compromises in the tuner section to allow better pre-amp and power amp section. that's why they were so heavy and big also. they also had better/bigger power transformers. the power transformers inside matches impedances and blocks EMI. you got also different designs like mosfet and bipolar and so forth what effects overall sound and performance. whole bunch of stuff in the overall topology design that effects it.

i love using yamaha's myself cause they're receivers allowed you to kill the pre-amp/eq section except the gain/volume control and strictly use the power amp section. it's always the power amp section that measures ''flat'' and is ''straight wire with gain'' so to say but gets colored by specific topology design in the pre-amp section. i love yamaha's as well for being only amps around to drive low impedance speakers of 1-2ohm nominal and has true class A power amp sections for large current driving. no other brand were able to compete in my opinion with yamaha's raw horse power for low impedances. i love their power amps. only company i think that were capable of driving large amounts of current by design were old NAD power amps and Altec Lansing had a few legendary power amps as well. Krell and Levinson been around forever as well and still even to this day makes some beefy amps capable of driving 1ohm loads without breaking a sweat.

i always judge an amps power by how low of an impedance it can drive way i look at it cause how low of the impedance the amp can handle is more important then it's overall power rating@8ohms since i drive 3ohm nominal loads for speakers and so far lot of vintage yamaha(mostly 80's M-xx power amps and the Yamaha R-9 class A receiver) provide their capability of sound and low impedance driving. that' what i find important to me because solid state has no problem dealing with large voltages and will have no issues when a speaker spikes over 100ohms in certain frequencies. it's the amount of amps/current it can drive while keeping it's consent voltage rating is what's important.


----------



## 5aces

singh said:


> is that a pioneer m25 ? how is it compared to the au-20000 ?




I sought out the Pioneer M-22 for different reasons,opposed to the Sansui AU 20000,namely to explore 'horn' speaker sound.

On that basis,the Pioneer M-22 steps in and takes command.

Matched with the Klipsch Heresy II speakers,this combination produces almost no obvious horn sound in contrast to the big stadium sound that Klipsch horn speakers are noteable for.

It is a pleasing sound that can be listened to for many hours at close range.

This small,high quality class-A amplifier is more akin to a Sony TAN86 class-A or Dyna Stereo 35/70.

As you may know,there are no features apart from the on/off switch on the Pioneer M-22 power amplifier.

Comparing the sound to the 170W Sansui integrated amplifier is more of a speaker matching contest and when it comes to the horn loaded Klipsch,the Pioneer wins it for me.

When I have friends over to listen to the Sansui/JBL system or the Pioneer/Klipsch,it usually ends in a dead heat for preferred sound.
Sometimes the slightest edge goes to the Sansui/JBL match,if only because the Sansui plays louder at the same gain,as noted below.

I believe each individual is partial to the equipment they know or own.
The house sound each person listens to on a daily basis becomes familiar to them,perhaps contributing to a skewed sound perception upon looking at the equipment before listening.
We have a lot of good times playing different sources and music genres through each of the three systems and discussing/debating the sound.

I'll leave you with this quote from Roger-Russel's webpage:
*"Differences are understandable. 
An amplifier having 0.1% distortion and one having 0.001% distortion are clearly not the same but they are way below audibility.
An amplifier having a damping factor of 10 and one having a damping factor of 1000 are also not the same but once again the difference is not audible. 

I have personally completed several blind A-B listening tests over the years between good amplifiers, tube or transistor. 
Although I thought I could hear a difference each time, my choice was only correct about 50% of the time. 
I have also conducted blind listening tests for other people. 
I have learned how important it is to set the amplifier gains to be exactly equal and that the amplifiers should not be seen or identified for the listener. 
The slightly louder amplifier often is preferred. 
Comparison must be instantaneous or the listener forgets. 
If the identity of the amplifiers is known, the listener often gets preoccupied with identifying which amplifier is playing instead of the sound quality. 
The questions asked of the listener about the sound quality are also very important. 
I even hide the speakers as well as the amplifiers behind an acoustically transparent curtain."*


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





themarkremains said:


> Your 7225PE is probably late '80s very early '90's . Geeze guys I think a 24 year old piece of electronics is pretty "vintage" but whatever. Break out the 88 RPM records then with a vitrola horn.


 


  I own an NAD 7225PE that I purchased in the late 80's.   I'm using it right now.  Love the sound of this unit. It's definitely one piece of gear that will never be sold. Powers the LCD-2's also.


----------



## sling5s

Hi,
   
  I used to have the Lyr for the LCD-2 rev.1. Sold both.  I'm planning on trying the LCD-2 rev. 2.  Anyone think the Pioneer SX-737 is enough for it.
  I also have Asgard and Marantz 2215B but I think, the Pioneer might be the best match.


----------



## wualta

Remember, headphone outs are always suspect until proven otherwise, even in vintage gear. When in doubt, connect directly to the speaker outs (make sure your DC offset is low to nil) or cobble up a simple pad. The "standard" (laughable, because in the analog days, yardsticks were made of rubber) output impedance for a headphone out was 120 ohms. You can always mod a pad or "coupler" to match your particular 'phones.
   
  Ardgedee, I know a fellow industrial-design freak when I see one. A tip of the flat cap to you, sir. And now, let's all watch Oskar Schlemmer's _Triadisches Ballett_, with music by Hindemith, no less.


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Remember, headphone outs are always suspect until proven otherwise, even in vintage gear. When in doubt, connect directly to the speaker outs (make sure your DC offset is low to nil) or cobble up a simple pad. The "standard" (laughable, because in the analog days, yardsticks were made of rubber) output impedance for a headphone out was 120 ohms. You can always mod a pad or "coupler" to match your particular 'phones.
> 
> Ardgedee, I know a fellow industrial-design freak when I see one. A tip of the flat cap to you, sir. And now, let's all watch Oskar Schlemmer's _Triadisches Ballett_, with music by Hindemith, no less.


 

 funny but you're right, since that's essentially what these are. I always felt I was somehow "protecting "my headphones by using the jack. They're just small speakers with (often) higher impedance.  I guess I need to step back every now and then.


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I own an NAD 7225PE that I purchased in the late 80's.   I'm using it right now.  Love the sound of this unit. It's definitely one piece of gear that will never be sold. Powers the LCD-2's also.


 


  I have two 7240PE's they do everything well. Amazing how well they drive towers. I do agree that the newer amps just don't stack up to the power of the (fiercely debated) vintage pieces. 
   
  My parents had a really nice Sansui in the 70's very similar to the ones pictured on this thread. I think it still works. I'm a big believer in "buy good quality, once !" it's cheaper in the long run


----------



## Frank I

for anyone interested there are two Pioneer Sx amps one SX1250-550.00 and a 1050 for 500 on audiogon in the receiver section. Figured I post incase someone was interested in those magnificent  receivers.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





themarkremains said:


> I have two 7240PE's they do everything well. Amazing how well they drive towers. I do agree that the newer amps just don't stack up to the power of the (fiercely debated) vintage pieces.
> 
> My parents had a really nice Sansui in the 70's very similar to the ones pictured on this thread. I think it still works. I'm a big believer in "buy good quality, once !" it's cheaper in the long run


 

 In case anyone is looking for NAD service this place does it.  I've sent some inquiries to them and they seem to know the NAD line pretty well.  If you own a "PE" model and get the amp serviced they will mod the power supply for free removing the power restrictions the PE line imposes on its line.   
   
  http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> In case anyone is looking for NAD service this place does it.  I've sent some inquiries to them and they seem to know the NAD line pretty well.  If you own a "PE" model and get the amp serviced they will mod the power supply for free removing the power restrictions the PE line imposes on its line.
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm


 


  They are also very big in Pioneer,Sansui and Marantz rebuilds at a reasonable price. They will overhaul a 1250 for 375.00


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





frank i said:


> They are also very big in Pioneer,Sansui and Marantz rebuilds at a reasonable price. They will overhaul a 1250 for 375.00


 
  My only hesitation to have the caps and power supply modded in my 722PE is that I really like the way the 7225PE sounds right now and it's been my experience more often than not that mods can change the character of a piece of gear into something that might technically be better but no longer has that sound one preferred. It is tempting though.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My only hesitation to have the caps and power supply modded in my 722PE is that I really like the way the 7225PE sounds right now and it's been my experience more often than not that mods can change the character of a piece of gear into something that might technically be better but no longer has that sound one preferred. It is tempting though.


 


  I agree about the caps. I had the moron tech here swap out a cap in the SX980 and it sounded bad so I made him put back the cap. I talked to those people and they really know their stuff on vintage gear and there is a guy on audio kharma named Mark the Fixer that does Pioneer stuff but he has an 18 month wait. He charges 250.00 plus parts which he said most times is not over 50.00 If the piece you have works dont bother. My SX650 I paid 35.00 and when it goes I am trashing it.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My only hesitation to have the caps and power supply modded in my 722PE is that I really like the way the 7225PE sounds right now and it's been my experience more often than not that mods can change the character of a piece of gear into something that might technically be better but no longer has that sound one preferred. It is tempting though.


 


  If you like the way it sounds.......leave it alone.


----------



## subzer0

I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but would anyone know the difference between the Marantz 2240 and the Marantz 2240b?  My interest in them is whether the 2240 non-b could drive the HE-6.


----------



## meltdown100

I just picked up a 1972 Pioneer SX-828 in very nice condition.  Powers up great, but I'm barely getting sound from the headphone output.  Haven't tried speaker outs.  The seller told me this had been sitting unused for quite a few years and I'm guessing I need to get pots cleaned and new capacitors at a minimum.
   
  Is that NAD service place a good place to use or are there others anyone could recommend other good options for getting an old Pioneer serviced?  Since I'm going to pay anyway, I definitely want higher grade components used and quality work done.  This was a flagship model in 1972, so I'm hoping it will sound very nice once the necessary parts are replaced.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





frank i said:


> I agree about the caps. I had the moron tech here swap out a cap in the SX980 and it sounded bad so I made him put back the cap. I talked to those people and they really know their stuff on vintage gear and there is a guy on audio kharma named Mark the Fixer that does Pioneer stuff but he has an 18 month wait. He charges 250.00 plus parts which he said most times is not over 50.00 If the piece you have works dont bother. My SX650 I paid 35.00 and when it goes I am trashing it.


 

 That's the thing, $350 to fix it? Thats ridiculous, you'd have to buy it for less than $50 to make money on it. It should be $150 maxx!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





meltdown100 said:


> I just picked up a 1972 Pioneer SX-828 in very nice condition.  Powers up great, but I'm barely getting sound from the headphone output.  Haven't tried speaker outs.  The seller told me this had been sitting unused for quite a few years and I'm guessing I need to get pots cleaned and new capacitors at a minimum.
> 
> Is that NAD service place a good place to use or are there others anyone could recommend other good options for getting an old Pioneer serviced?  Since I'm going to pay anyway, I definitely want higher grade components used and quality work done.  This was a flagship model in 1972, so I'm hoping it will sound very nice once the necessary parts are replaced.


 

 Here is a guy near me ( I cannot believe my luck).  I'm going to ask him to refurbish my Sansui AU 505.  You might want to look over his site.  From what I have heard he is well respected and is very familiar with the quality of many brands of caps.
   
  http://audiodoctor.biz/


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but would anyone know the difference between the Marantz 2240 and the Marantz 2240b?  My interest in them is whether the 2240 non-b could drive the HE-6.


 


 They are practically the same receiver. Both output 40WPC into an 8 ohm load.
  The 2240 was released in 1974. The 2240b was released in 1976 and has
  slightly better distortion specs.
   
  The HE-6 will sound like poo-poo through the headphone jack.
  You would need to run it off of the speaker terminals for it to shine.
  If one is not careful (as in too much volume) one could blow the transducers on the HE-6.
  So start out with the volume at zero and the phones on your head.
  Others have said the HE-6 pairs well with the Marantz 2275 & 2285 models, so the 2240 should do ok here.
  Lastly, please note this is conjecture on my part. I have never heard a HE-6 hooked to a vintage receiver.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> That's the thing, $350 to fix it? Thats ridiculous, you'd have to buy it for less than $50 to make money on it. It should be $150 maxx!


 


  Most of that 350 dollar charge is due to the labor involved ....it's not an easy job to pull all the caps (some resistors,diodes etc) from these older amps. They are not as modular in nature as the modern stuff. A complete rebuild of an amp can take anywhere from 4 hours to 2 days (2 x 8 hour days). It depends on what the tech finds once under the chassis lid. This is where learning to DIY pays off big time.
   
  Peete.


----------



## livewire

He speaks the truth.
  As someone who has done this multiple times, I agree - two days work, easy.
  I suppose a pro who has refurbed the same build amp (ie; Marantz 2XXX series) many times could cut down the time involved.
  A good electronic tech dont make peanuts for his efforts.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





livewire said:


> They are practically the same receiver. Both output 40WPC into an 8 ohm load.
> The 2240 was released in 1974. The 2240b was released in 1976 and has
> slightly better distortion specs.
> 
> ...


 

 In bold-underlined text is exactly what I told him as well.  I get about 6 watts into 50 ohm via the speaker taps, and then it's then got about 4-5dB more headroom than my ZDT amp!


----------



## Silent One

Currently, I have the SX-650 and D7000. And though my Denon's are really efficient, I'm curious to know what it would sound like running the D7000 from the speaker taps. Better or worse than the Headphone Out? And what steps would I need to take to protect my D7000's? Thanks.


----------



## Wharfrat

Hey, now!  You guys are kind!  Alot of good chatter on various topics of interest to me at the moment...sorta hard to figure where to begin...but want to honor the thread theme since some of the technical details are lurking under rocks elsewhere on the various forum threads, especially about using speaker taps with the Hifi-Man stuff.  Not that I understand it ("set DC offset zero to nil"? egads! woe is me...). 
   
  I found RexAeterna's reference to bypassing the pre-amp section and using the power amp section in a "straight wire with gain" approach quite novel and it begs the question for me to ask for a response thereto: are you referring to accessing the signal produced by the power amp section through the headphone out jacks? (Wouldn't this even be possible?) I also want to know how does one "bypass" the preamp?  And on which Yamaha models is this best achieved if the sound source is the headphone out jack?  If the signal is flat, is it on the warm side of flat or more neutral like the Pioneer?
   
  To reply specifically to a point earlier raised regarding Pioneer and LCD-2 synergies...I am pretty confident based on my own experience that the two would be and (according to Skylab earlier in this thread) are highly satisfying combos.  But the LCD-2s like power, so lower powered Pioneers are probably not as good picks as the SX-1xxx's and higher would likely be.
   
  But to report on the headphone output of the NAD 7225PE.  The HK was connected to an Adcom GFA-555 mkII 200 watt amp to drive the 91db sensitive Dunlavy SC-IVs.  I switched it out and put in the HK 730...and noticed an increase in bass depth and control and a more layered soundstage....for reasons explained well by RexAeterna...the HK has beefier power supplies and probably a better preamp section than the NAD.
  This was confirmed with respect to the headphone output as well; the HK simply had a better match with all my headphones than the NAD.  Simply tells me that overall, the HK is better built and has a different sound signature than the NAD..something I would call more "organic", "stomach-filling".
   
  So far, so good...I think I am getting a better feel for how NAD, HK, and Pioneer gear sound like.  Now this leaves me with Sansui and Yamaha units to look at.  I am quite impressed with the HK sound (Pioneer SX-1250...oh, simply another league, no kidding..just don't expect it to go for less than $600 on eBay and thats being freaking lucky).  The "come hither" sound of the HK makes me lust for the siren-call of a Marantz....(I say with conviction that my wallet-shaped ship will crash into the rocks...the bidding on the Marantz' is absolutely nuts...$200-$300 price spikes in the 5 seconds before bidding closes...sheesh!).  I have lost a few bid chances of late for a mint Marantz 2285 and there is a busted 2270 being auctioned off at a dirt cheap price that, if repaired by the guys referenced above for the prices quoted, would be a steal as I would get brand new parts for the same price I would get a "used" good condition working 2270 for.  But my experience with the big SX-1250 makes me want to spring for a Marantz 2325 so I can put the 2325 (at 125 wpc and capable of handling lower speaker impedance loads, to address a point raised earlier) in the place of the HK740 to do the Dunlavys a deep-sea bass dive down the frequency spectrum.  I would then get rid of the NAD 7225PE altogether....


----------



## Philimon

I am selling my Marantz as I prefer my Luxman for speakers due to its neutral sound, and since I've sold my HIFIMAN I have no need for the Marantz "warmth" and "punch" it provided for those  headphones. Plus I am interested in doing 5.1 or 7.1 so would really like to buy a new home theater receiver. At this time I am not willing to ship. Here is link to my local ad. Price is at higher end but I will lower as time goes plus Im negotiable especially for Head-Fier.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> That's the thing, $350 to fix it? Thats ridiculous, you'd have to buy it for less than $50 to make money on it. It should be $150 maxx!


 

 Hmm...  For the labor and re-capping that's pretty good.  I have had several amps re-capped and that's not bad at all.  Of course, I didn't do it to re-sell and make money.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





philimon said:


> I am selling my Marantz as I prefer my Luxman for speakers due to its neutral sound, and since I've sold my HIFIMAN I have no need for the Marantz "warmth" and "punch" it provided for those  headphones. Plus I am interested in doing 5.1 or 7.1 so would really like to buy a new home theater receiver. At this time I am not willing to ship. Here is link to my local ad. Price is at higher end but I will lower as time goes plus Im negotiable especially for Head-Fier.


 


 Wow! That is an excellent deal.
  If I lived closer, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.


----------



## Frank I

The 350 is for a rebuild. So Ciafani you think a business should stay open and not make a profit. I think that is reasonable. With the cost of running a shop,technicians and employees that is way reasonable. Most companies  cannot stay in business without a profit and angelfire has employees and a shop in NY. People who rebuild their Pioneers is because they love them and want to keep them for another 30 years


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Hey, now!  You guys are kind!  Alot of good chatter on various topics of interest to me at the moment...sorta hard to figure where to begin...but want to honor the thread theme since some of the technical details are lurking under rocks elsewhere on the various forum threads, especially about using speaker taps with the Hifi-Man stuff.  Not that I understand it ("set DC offset zero to nil"? egads! woe is me...).
> 
> I found RexAeterna's reference to bypassing the pre-amp section and using the power amp section in a "straight wire with gain" approach quite novel and it begs the question for me to ask for a response thereto: are you referring to accessing the signal produced by the power amp section through the headphone out jacks? (Wouldn't this even be possible?)* *
> *I also want to know how does one "bypass" the preamp?  *And on which Yamaha models is this best achieved if the sound source is the headphone out jack?  If the signal is flat, is it on the warm side of flat or more neutral like the Pioneer?
> ...


 

 I doubt you could do it through the headphone jack unless one was to rewire things internally.
   
  On the backside of many vintage receivers there are binding post style jacks that are bridged
  with connecting links that effectively connects the pre-amp section to the main amplifier section.
  Simply removing the bridge links separates them, allowing one to hook directly to the amp section,
  or to use the pre-amp to control an external higher power amplifier.
  Some units also have front panel controls to aid in this function.
   
  My Marantz 2275 and Pioneer SX-1010 both use the bridge links out back.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





livewire said:


> I doubt you could do it through the headphone jack unless one was to rewire things internally.
> 
> On the backside of many vintage receivers there are binding post style jacks that are bridged
> with connecting links that effectively connects the pre-amp section to the main amplifier section.
> ...


 

 The Pioneer SX650 and SX980 I owned both played them out of the jack with zero issues. The Marantz 2220B could not but Skylab had success using them out of the 2240 and 2275. But I still preferred them best out of the speaker tap bypassing the 150 ohm resistor in the Pioneer amps headphone jacks. .


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Most of that 350 dollar charge is due to the labor involved ....it's not an easy job to pull all the caps (some resistors,diodes etc) from these older amps. They are not as modular in nature as the modern stuff. A complete rebuild of an amp can take anywhere from 4 hours to 2 days (2 x 8 hour days). It depends on what the tech finds once under the chassis lid. This is where learning to DIY pays off big time.
> 
> Peete.


 

 I do understand that, and id want the guys to make money, and i do understand the problems involving rust,etc. The problem with lots of DIY, is that people are too lazy to spend money to put money and thinking energy in a case. Small business want you to buy it on appearance not specs. Which many people dont buy something on specs, but on the way it looks. Look at this, and dont tell me you want to buy it. Its not only nice, but its a B22, a B22! IMO the best all around headphones amp to this day, DIY or not.
  

   
  Quote: 





davo50 said:


> Hmm...  For the labor and re-capping that's pretty good.  I have had several amps re-capped and that's not bad at all.  Of course, I didn't do it to re-sell and make money.


 
   
  I know, i meant it in the way of when you see people selling something at a set price and wanting to negotiate but they have 3/4th of there cost in servicing that they want to get back out of the unit.
   
  Quote: 





frank i said:


> The 350 is for a rebuild. So Ciafani Cifani you think a business should stay open and not make a profit. I think that is reasonable. With the cost of running a shop,technicians and employees that is way reasonable. Most companies  cannot stay in business without a profit and angelfire has employees and a shop in NY. People who rebuild their Pioneers is because they love them and want to keep them for another 30 years


 

 I understand where you are coming from. Ive yet to get a receiver serviced, probably because i just sell them right away if there is a problem with them. If you guys watch "Pawn Stars" they've said time and time again, a boat is a money hole. IMO the same with these. I love my equipment, but if/when i go to sell it, i dont want to waste my time and loose money, i think that the bad economy has made me like this


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I do understand that, and id want the guys to make money, and i do understand the problems involving rust,etc. The problem with lots of DIY, is that people are too lazy to spend money to put money and thinking energy in a case. Small business want you to buy it on appearance not specs. Which many people dont buy something on specs, but on the way it looks. Look at this, and dont tell me you want to buy it. Its not only nice, but its a B22, a B22! IMO the best all around headphones amp to this day, DIY or not.


 
  I've spent the last 7 months exploring the B22 and decided  never to buy one.   There are too many different builds and regardless of what the reputation of the builder is I don't think there are two B22 that sound the same.   I'll bet you can find ten different B22's here in the forum for sale or presently owned by members and if you put all ten in a room each one would have different brands of caps, resistors, transformers and I bet not one of them would same the same.


----------



## wotts

Agreed. I would like to square mine off against others just to see the differences.

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've spent the last 7 months exploring the B22 and decided  never to buy one.   There are too many different builds and regardless of what the reputation of the builder is I don't think there are two B22 that sound the same.   I'll bet you can find ten different B22's here in the forum for sale or presently owned by members and if you put all ten in a room each one would have different brands of caps, resistors, transformers and I bet not one of them would same the same.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> But to report on the headphone output of the NAD 7225PE.  The HK was connected to an Adcom GFA-555 mkII 200 watt amp to drive the 91db sensitive Dunlavy SC-IVs.  I switched it out and put in the HK 730...and noticed an increase in bass depth and control and a more layered soundstage....for reasons explained well by RexAeterna...the HK has beefier power supplies and probably a better preamp section than the NAD.
> This was confirmed with respect to the headphone output as well; the HK simply had a better match with all my headphones than the NAD.  Simply tells me that overall, the HK is better built and has a different sound signature than the NAD..something I would call more "organic", "stomach-filling".
> 
> So far, so good...I think I am getting a better feel for how NAD, HK, and Pioneer gear sound like.  Now this leaves me with Sansui and Yamaha units to look at.  I am quite impressed with the HK sound (Pioneer SX-1250...oh, simply another league, no kidding..just don't expect it to go for less than $600 on eBay and thats being freaking lucky).  The "come hither" sound of the HK makes me lust for the siren-call of a Marantz....(I say with conviction that my wallet-shaped ship will crash into the rocks...the bidding on the Marantz' is absolutely nuts...$200-$300 price spikes in the 5 seconds before bidding closes...sheesh!).  I have lost a few bid chances of late for a mint Marantz 2285 and there is a busted 2270 being auctioned off at a dirt cheap price that, if repaired by the guys referenced above for the prices quoted, would be a steal as I would get brand new parts for the same price I would get a "used" good condition working 2270 for.  But my experience with the big SX-1250 makes me want to spring for a Marantz 2325 so I can put the 2325 (at 125 wpc and capable of handling lower speaker impedance loads, to address a point raised earlier) in the place of the HK740 to do the Dunlavys a deep-sea bass dive down the frequency spectrum.  I would then get rid of the NAD 7225PE altogether....


 

 If you like HK sound and prefer big power, why not try a Citation pre-amp with your Adcom 555? I like my citation 11 pre-amp more than 730 and already sold 730. (The buyer first decided to buy my Sony STR-7065, but I let him try the HK 730 and he immediately changed his mind.) If you want to use Citation to drive phones, you need this cable

  The HK 730 just can't touch the Citation line in sound quality.
  You can get Citation 11 from ePay for around $120 plus shipping (you may need to DIY the headphone cable, check AK for info), pairing with your adcom 555, I think you will be a camper.
   
  I have (had) many NADs, my ranking for them is 3140->7020(receiver version of 3020)->3130->7245pe->310.


----------



## jc9394

Which Marantz is better for headphone?  2252b or 2265b?


----------



## sling5s

Everyone says you need at least 2Watts to get the LCD-2 to sound it's best.  How much watts are coming out of the Pioneer SX-737 headphone jack (watts for 50ohms)?


----------



## DefQon

Currently rebuilding/refurbishing a vintage JVC-JA S10 integrated amp, the outside shell is in perfect condition and it sounds pretty good, clear and bit on the analytical side which makes my 12AU7 amp bit too muddy and warm like in a comparison. Got a Marantz lying somewhere as well, only problem is that pot doesn't work.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I've spent the last 7 months exploring the B22 and decided  never to buy one.   There are too many different builds and regardless of what the reputation of the builder is I don't think there are two B22 that sound the same.   I'll bet you can find ten different B22's here in the forum for sale or presently owned by members and if you put all ten in a room each one would have different brands of caps, resistors, transformers and I bet not one of them would same the same.


 

 I agree where your coming from, someone should do a DIY board that has interchangeable caps, resistors, and transformers and than someone can do a shootout.


----------



## jc9394

On beta22, to me, I really don't care how many versions are out there as long as the one I have is good sounding.  In fact, I highly prefer the beta22 over WA22 with LCD-2.


----------



## Wharfrat

philimon said:


> I am selling my Marantz as I prefer my Luxman for speakers due to its neutral sound, and since I've sold my HIFIMAN I have no need for the Marantz "warmth" and "punch" it provided for those  headphones. Plus I am interested in doing 5.1 or 7.1 so would really like to buy a new home theater receiver. At this time I am not willing to ship. Here is link to my local ad. Price is at higher end but I will lower as time goes plus Im negotiable especially for Head-Fier.


 
  I don't think your price is at the high-end at all!  Very fair.   I just lost out on a bid yesterday for a 2250B which went for $181.  It wasn't in as nice a condition as yours nor did it include the fine speakers.   PM me if you ever think of shipping as I am still in the market for a Marantz 2250 and higher numbered models.  The speakers could do duty on my desktop rig....
   
  Thanks for the reply to my inquiry about bypassing the preamp section....the bridge pins...jeez! I already use that approach to connect the HK to the Adcom...The terminology helps as I had a vision of me in a mad scientist cloak opening up the innards, clipping a wire here or there and McGyver-ing a paper clip or wire hanger  between parts of the unit....

 Meewoo: I have been thinking the same about the Citation...but prices have been all over the place.  $120 sounds reasonable considering my HK 730 was had for $60 and I felt like a thief upon listening to it....I do have a speaker tap adaptor similiarly constructed as shown in your pix, but none of my HP have 4-pin female XLR connectors and would have to be professionally recabled to make the adapter usable and to make matters worse, many HP amps with XLR jacks need you to have a MALE XLR connector on the HP cable!.  So thats 2 X $250+ right there....(reminds me of a boat skipper who complained to me that the cost of boat engine components are inversely proportional to their size and you need to have a backup just in case you're far from land....).  So for now I will have to live with the headphone jack output, resistors and all...
   
  Luxman and Yamaha...I will have to go back thru this humongous thread and identify models that ya'lls deem worthy of HP-out use unless somebody wants to be super-duper nice and give me a list of Luxes and Yams to do homework with.  McIntosh is also on my research radar but there is very little commentary posted anywhere on the HP-out quality of McIntosh units....even less so about any particular model. 
   
  I primarily am into vintage stuff cuz of the HP quality and price, not to mention the looks and feel of wood and metal...IMHO the vintage receivers and integrateds are no-brainers from a cost-performance perspective.  I am saving up for the big boys, though: Darkstar or Apex with HE-6/LCD-3....when I grow up.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Meewoo: I have been thinking the same about the Citation...but prices have been all over the place.  $120 sounds reasonable considering my HK 730 was had for $60 and I felt like a thief upon listening to it....I do have a speaker tap adaptor similiarly constructed as shown in your pix, but none of my HP have 4-pin female XLR connectors and would have to be professionally recabled to make the adapter usable and to make matters worse, many HP amps with XLR jacks need you to have a MALE XLR connector on the HP cable!.  So thats 2 X $250+ right there....(reminds me of a boat skipper who complained to me that the cost of boat engine components are inversely proportional to their size and you need to have a backup just in case you're far from land....).  So for now I will have to live with the headphone jack output, resistors and all...


 

 The cable in my pix is not for connecting headphones. The cable is used for connecting the power amp speaker binder and a socket at back of Citation 11 (it's five pin one). So the power can be  fed back to pre-amp to drive the headphone port. There are also two sets of speaker binders on the back of Citation 11, and output selector in front (speaker A, B, A+B, and headphones). The pre-amp was designed to be the center of control, and you can hide your -amp in somewhere. You can wire speakers on Citation 11 directly if you have the cable as shown in my pix.  But note that most auctions on ePay don't have this cable, so you may need to DIY. Hope you don't get confused by me!


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Thanks for the reply to my inquiry about bypassing the preamp section....the bridge pins...jeez! I already use that approach to connect the HK to the Adcom...The terminology helps as I had a vision of me in a mad scientist cloak opening up the innards, clipping a wire here or there and McGyver-ing a paper clip or wire hanger  between parts of the unit....


 

 A word of caution here, you are probably aware of this.
  If you are to take this approach, check the manual of the receiver to verify
  if the volume is attenuated through the pre-amp section or the amp itself.
  If the volume control does not control the amp section directly,
  the amp could be running at full power when switched on. (causing much hate and discontent!)
  In this case, the externally connected source would require it's own control to attenuate its output.
  (the source voltage being fed into the amp section)
  The manual should also indicate what an acceptable source voltage range should be for this application.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I agree where your coming from, someone should do a DIY board that has interchangeable caps, resistors, and transformers and than someone can do a shootout.


 
  It would be great to have some sort of mega meet someplace where B22 owners show up in force.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It would be great to have some sort of mega meet someplace where B22 owners show up in force.


 

 You better have a B22, or your not welcome!


----------



## meltdown100

Quote: 





frank i said:


> They are also very big in Pioneer,Sansui and Marantz rebuilds at a reasonable price. They will overhaul a 1250 for 375.00


 
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> In case anyone is looking for NAD service this place does it.  I've sent some inquiries to them and they seem to know the NAD line pretty well.  If you own a "PE" model and get the amp serviced they will mod the power supply for free removing the power restrictions the PE line imposes on its line.
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm


 

  
  Got quoted for about $275 by the NAD repair guys above for my SX-828.  That price is definitely fair, just hoping the work is good.  Anybody have experience using them?


----------



## sluker

What is the collective knowledge here on the Pioneer SA9900? How does it compare to the SX1250? Is $350 a good price for a clean looking unit?
  I need another amp like I need a hole in my wallet.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sluker said:


> What is the collective knowledge here on the Pioneer SA9900? How does it compare to the SX1250? Is $350 a good price for a clean looking unit?
> I need another amp like I need a hole in my wallet.


 

 If you don't want it, I will buy it from you for $400 plus shipping. Man, what are you thinking? It's the TOTL integrated amp of Pionny in 70's. Even a nice SA-9800 is selling around $600 on ePay. Run, don't walk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sluker

OK I will see if I can get it tomorrow.


----------



## sluker

Alright, going to check it out tomorrow.


----------



## Meewoo

Cool!!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Alright, going to check it out tomorrow.


 

 Grab some pictures while your add it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Is it in original condition? Has it been serviced?


----------



## singh

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> If you don't want it, I will buy it from you for $400 plus shipping. Man, what are you thinking? It's the TOTL integrated amp of Pionny in 70's. Even a nice SA-9800 is selling around $600 on ePay. Run, don't walk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 


  sa-9800 generally goes for higher price than sa-9900.
  yeah the build of sa9900 is better and it has 10 watts more ..but sa-9800 has much better specs.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





singh said:


> sa-9800 generally goes for higher price than sa-9900.  yeah the build of sa9900 is better and it has 10 watts more ..but sa-9800 has much better specs.


 
  Yeah, the LED index and wood case definitely help 9800 fetch more money than 9900. To me, 9900 is more rare and almost a integrated SPEC system.
  Could you tell me why 9800 has much better specs?


----------



## Wharfrat

Took a swan dive off the vintage cliffs into Marantz-blue waters and spearfished me a very nice, one-owner 2275 with the original User's Manual off e-pray this afternoon for $376 and change.  Pics indicate it is almost mint and the guy's had it since 1978.   Can't wait to put it in the lineup with the
  SX-1250 and HK 730...
   
*Meewoo:* This is the first I've heard of it..am going to have to ask what exactly is the connection sequence? Source to preamp to power amp then using that cable to connect back into the preamp to access the headphone out?  What on earth would be the reason for such a design topology if not to get a better sonic benefit or to enable the unit to power both the headphone out jack as well as the speakers? (some designs don't enable you to attenuate both and pre-empts the headphone out if the preamp-amp bridge pins are removed). 
   
  As for DIY-ing that sorta kind of cable...someday.  Much to learn...
   
*Livewire*: You said:
_"A word of caution here, you are probably aware of this._
_If you are to take this approach, check the manual of the receiver to verify_
_if the volume is attenuated through the pre-amp section or the amp itself._
_If the volume control does not control the amp section directly,_
_the amp could be running at full power when switched on. (causing much hate and discontent!)_
_In this case, the externally connected source would require it's own control to attenuate its output._
_(the source voltage being fed into the amp section)_
_The manual should also indicate what an acceptable source voltage range should be for this application."_
   
   Are you saying I should be cautious about using a receiver as a preamp to power an external amplifier besides acting as a preamp?  It was suggested by a reputable dealer to use my NAD 7225PE to power the Adcom so, I simply switched in the HK730 into the place of the NAD and connected it up the same way.
  Gonna have to download an HK730 manual and find where the verification information might be and whether I am screwed...though I can't imagine the volume control not controlling the amp section of a receiver or an integrated...


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Took a swan dive off the vintage cliffs into Marantz-blue waters and spearfished me a very nice, one-owner 2275 with the original User's Manual off e-pray this afternoon for $376 and change.  Pics indicate it is almost mint and the guy's had it since 1978.   Can't wait to put it in the lineup with the
> SX-1250 and HK 730...
> 
> *Meewoo:* This is the first I've heard of it..am going to have to ask what exactly is the connection sequence? Source to preamp to power amp then using that cable to connect back into the preamp to access the headphone out?  What on earth would be the reason for such a design topology if not to get a better sonic benefit or to enable the unit to power both the headphone out jack as well as the speakers? (some designs don't enable you to attenuate both and pre-empts the headphone out if the preamp-amp bridge pins are removed).
> ...


 


 Enjoy your new toy! I love my 2275. Brings back memories of my college days...
   
  To answer your question, no that is not what I was saying.
  Actually the inverse, if you were to use the receiver's amp section with something else driving it. (like a DAC)
  Oh, and I know nothing about HK, Nad and Adcom. Carry on!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





> This is the first I've heard of it..am going to have to ask what exactly is the connection sequence? Source to preamp to power amp then using that cable to connect back into the preamp to access the headphone out?  What on earth would be the reason for such a design topology if not to get a better sonic benefit or to enable the unit to power both the headphone out jack as well as the speakers? (some designs don't enable you to attenuate both and pre-empts the headphone out if the preamp-amp bridge pins are removed).
> 
> As for DIY-ing that sorta kind of cable...someday.  Much to learn...
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats to your Marantz!!! You were definitely bitten by vintage bugs!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Now let me explain how the Citation 11 works. First all, 11 has same design as all pre-amp plus the speaker selector, speaker binders and headphone port. The headphone port is not opamped, so it will not produce any sound if you don't have the cable in my pix. You connect other components to Citation 11 using RCA cables as usual. So if you don't use headphone port, you can connect your speaker to you power-amp.
  If you want to use the headphone port in 11, you have to have the cable connected. So you conduct the power-amp's power back to pre-amp to drive headphone port or the speaker binders. So your headphone port power totally depend on your amp plus a resister impedance. Suppose the HK 730 and 11 have same resister, and suppose your HK730 can provide 45 wpc and 4.5 watts for headphone port, then 11 and Adcom 555 combo can have 20 watts on headphone port. The headphone port power of 11 totally depends on your power-amp. The idea of Citation 11 design also make connecting easier. You can hide big, hot power-amp somewhere and wire the speakers on the back of 11. 
  As for NAD, HK to Adcom, I think you are fine since you just unplug the u-link between pre-amp and main , then connect pre-amp to Adcom. If you only use NAD or HK as pre-amp and Adcom as power amp, I don't think you can get any sound from headphone ports. Now you realize how smart Citation design is!
   
  Quote: 





livewire said:


> Enjoy your new toy! I love my 2275. Brings back memories of my college days...
> 
> To answer your question, no that is not what I was saying.
> Actually the inverse, if you were to use the receiver's amp section with something else driving it. (like a DAC)
> Oh, and I know nothing about HK, Nad and Adcom. Carry on!


 
  @wharfrat
 Yes, that's exactly what livewire means.
  You were asking direct link to power-amp topic inspired by Rex. Rex was talking about Yamaha having this design, but not all stuff have it. You may see some power-amp have the volume controller, you are safe to connect your source (CD player or PC) to the power-amp if you turn the volume to minimum. But it's not safe to connect your source to main in of your NAD or HK 730 (by-pass the pre-amp part). My Luxman R-113 and R-117 have a direct cd function which makes every sources connected to CD inputs by-passes the pre-amp part but volume controller. Rex was talking this kind of function on Yamaha.


----------



## moodyrn

Well I recently made some drastic changes to my vintage receiver lineup. I've sold two pairs of my vintage speakers(klipsch kg4, cf-2). So that meant I had no room for either my pioneer sx1010 or kenwood kr-9600. I still have my forte II(never getting rid of those) and they have better synergy with my fisher since they really love tubes. I thought about keeping the kenwood because it sounds so great with my he-6, but I really couldn't justify keeping something that massive for just a headphone amp.
   
  So I decided to start over and go the integrated route to save on space. So what I did last night really doesn't make any sense, but I saw it too good a deal to pass up and had no idea I would win that auction with the max bid I place, but surprisingly I did. So I just scored a marantz 2325 off ebay of all places for 372.56 plus 80.00 shipping. I've never been interested in purchasing vintage stuff off ebay because of the risk of it getting damaged during shipping. But at 454.00 shipped, it was worth the risk. It's not mint but it's in pretty decent shape.
   
  It also comes with the wood case which is even more rare than scoring a 2325. It has some scratches, but that don't bother me since I'm going to refinish it anyway to make it look like new. The seller even have a return policy. So at worst I would be out of the 70.00-80.00 to ship it back, but that's still more than worth it to me.


----------



## Meewoo

You just didn't cure the bug bite yet!
  Enjoy!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I had my sights set on either a marantz 1152 or sansui au-717. I had planned to completely move on from receivers since I don't listen to fm much and to save space, but the chance to own something as legendary as the 2325 at a reasonable price was something I couldn't resist. Also even If I had to completely reburbish it, it would be about the same price as the "previous" going rate just for one in average  condition. I saw one about a month ago that needed some very serious work for about the price I paid for mine.
   
  The seller claims everything works and he also used contact cleaner to clean the pots and switches. The only issue is one bulb out and the scratches on the wood cabinent. I was really surprised it didn't go for much more than that. I was chuckling with my wife when I was watching it and said for laughs, I throw a 401.76 bid on it, but I'm sure I will go for 650.00 within the last 20 seconds. Don't know why it didn't but it sure worked out in my favor.
   
  Now the thing that scares me is, I might not like this as much as the receivers I just go rid of. Both the pioneer and the kenwood sounded world class to me. But my main purpose for wanting something with a different flavor was for powering my he-6. As from experience they synergize well with warmer sounding amps. The pioneer was neutral, the kenwood(still the best I've heard them to date) is slightly warm. So even if the kenwood, and pioneer are better overall, it would still be worth it if the marantz mates with my he-6 better.


----------



## jc9394

Just picked up this puppy from CL...


----------



## wualta

Quote:


meewoo said:


> Could you tell me why 9800 has much better specs?


 

 The key is in the words "non-switching". We've discussed this earlier in this thread. Singh may come in with his own explanation, and I hope he does, In the meantime, take a look at this post over at AK.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just picked up this puppy from CL...


 
  That looks absolutely stunning. Was it refurbished or is it just mint. I would be shock if it's not refurbished and the seller took that good of care of it all of these years. That's definitely a dime piece.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That looks absolutely stunning. Was it refurbished or is it just mint. I would be shock if it's not refurbished and the seller took that good of care of it all of these years. That's definitely a dime piece.


 

  
  From what I know, he is the second owner and it has not restored/refurbished.  I popped open the cover and looks amazing clean, not even much dust too.  The best part is sound quite good with LCD-2 for the limited 10 minutes I have with it.


----------



## moodyrn

Well it's very rare to find something in that condition that hasn't been restored. That makes it an better score. Congrats.


----------



## francisdemarte

Awesome 2265B! I recently picked up the wood case from CL and it looks exactly like your pictures  good to know that the LCD-2 sound good from them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> Awesome 2265B! I recently picked up the wood case from CL and it looks exactly like your pictures  good to know that the LCD-2 sound good from them.


 


  It is slightly slow and a little dark compare to beta22 but never the less it is the best amp that I tried for less than a grand.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> From what I know, he is the second owner and it has not restored/refurbished.  I popped open the cover and looks amazing clean, not even much dust too.  The best part is sound quite good with LCD-2 for the limited 10 minutes I have with it.


 

 Congrats, it looks very nice! Be careful though because those original units you can throw alot of money at them.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Congrats, it looks very nice! Be careful though because those original units you can throw alot of money at them.


 


  I checked out the caps and all things that I'm familiar with and they looks have a lot of life left.  My EE degree finally has some use...


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Well I recently made some drastic changes to my vintage receiver lineup. I've sold two pairs of my vintage speakers(klipsch kg4, cf-2). So that meant I had no room for either my pioneer sx1010 or kenwood kr-9600. I still have my forte II(never getting rid of those) and they have better synergy with my fisher since they really love tubes. I thought about keeping the kenwood because it sounds so great with my he-6, but I really couldn't justify keeping something that massive for just a headphone amp.
> 
> So I decided to start over and go the integrated route to save on space. So what I did last night really doesn't make any sense, but I saw it too good a deal to pass up and had no idea I would win that auction with the max bid I place, but surprisingly I did. So I just scored a marantz 2325 off ebay of all places for 372.56 plus 80.00 shipping. I've never been interested in purchasing vintage stuff off ebay because of the risk of it getting damaged during shipping. But at 454.00 shipped, it was worth the risk. It's not mint but it's in pretty decent shape.
> 
> It also comes with the wood case which is even more rare than scoring a 2325. It has some scratches, but that don't bother me since I'm going to refinish it anyway to make it look like new. The seller even have a return policy. So at worst I would be out of the 70.00-80.00 to ship it back, but that's still more than worth it to me.


 
  Wow, congrats!  Never know what's gonna happen on e-pay...  you stole that one.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Just picked up this puppy from CL...


 


  Welcome jc9394, what an entry! Is "CL" code for Claus? Nice self gift...


----------



## jc9394

Thanks, I have set up alerts on CL for a while with "Marantz" and "Sansui"


----------



## sluker

That looks mint, good score.
  I don't really like the LCD-2 with the Sansui AU-717 (whereas the HE-6 sounds perfect), it's a bit too dark, or else i should say I prefer it with the SX-1250 or the Toshiba SA-7100, so I always assumed the marantz would be even darker. Regardless, that unit looks great.
  Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Thanks, I have set up alerts on CL for a while with "Marantz" and "Sansui"


----------



## Meewoo

I hate you guys putting beautiful Marantz on this thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm always drooling them, but I can't pay the price premium for it's name.


----------



## livewire

*2265 FTW!*
  That's a choice hunk of vintage goodness.


----------



## Meewoo

I am really sick of beautiful Marantz here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I present my blue lights Goddess from north.

  Tandberg TR 2075


----------



## Lou Erickson

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Does anyone know of a place in the Bay Area, CA that restores vintage receivers? I just tried out the phono stage on my SX-850 and it hums really badly and the channels also cut out  from time to time. Wanted to recap this myself but I've never done it before and I don't want to mess it up. I really like the 850 and want to keep it alive!


 

 Yes, old post, but I've just caught up and I can help with this!
   
  I found:
   
  SerTech Electronics 
  (408) 267-3288
   
  5725 Winfield Blvd
  San Jose California 95123
  United States
   
  They've been doing electronics repair since this stuff was new.    I had a Marantz 6300 TT serviced, and they did an excellent job.  Prices were very fair.  And, on the way out I noticed they had a little stash of equipment for sale. I picked up a Marantz 5020 cassette player, serviced, with new belts, for $80.  Good place, run by good guys.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sluker said:


> That looks mint, good score.
> I don't really like the LCD-2 with the Sansui AU-717 (whereas the HE-6 sounds perfect), it's a bit too dark, or else i should say I prefer it with the SX-1250 or the Toshiba SA-7100, so I always assumed the marantz would be even darker. Regardless, that unit looks great.


 

 Not sure I posted here or the other thread, I do found the Marantz is on darker side when using LCD-2, it may pair better with HD800.  I will give it a try later.


----------



## Skylab

Jc9394 and Moodyrn, congrats on your Marantz scores!
   
  That 2265b is just beautiful.  classic monster Marantz receivers in wood cabinets are just AWESOME.


----------



## meltdown100

Okay, after seeing that gorgeous Marantz my recent acquisition is not much to look at, but I'm still quite happy to have scored it and what the heck, I'll post a pic - this looks almost new and it is almost 40 years old (like me).  Sadly I'll need to get her fixed up before I can get a real listen:


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Jc9394 and Moodyrn, congrats on your Marantz scores!
> 
> That 2265b is just beautiful.  classic monster Marantz receivers in wood cabinets are just AWESOME.


 

 Could not agree more.  That specimen is pristine! 
   
  There is a wood cabinet for the 2275 I just bought available locally on CL for $145....gotta dress that baby up properly since mine did not come with one.  But check it out here by pasting this on your browser: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=150708334121.  I think it looks well cared for so I cannot complain one whit.
   
  Moodyrn, you made me cry, cry, cry!  The 2325 was on my bid list yesterday, but the bidding for the 2275 took place 10 or so minutes before the 2325.  It was a toss up: an immaculate 2275 vs a clearly restorable, WORKING, with cabinet, 2325 that was 2 hours away from me in a town I grew up in.  But I won the 2275 and knew I was courting death if I bid on the 2325....Had I lost the 2275, I would have bid $409 (what I bid for the 2275) and snatched it from you....Congrats on getting the 2325 for $6.00 less than what I paid for the 2275.  
  You should go to jail for just having the luck itself....there such as too much of a good thing, now.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Livewire and Maewoo:  thanks for the explanation.  I will do my due diligence and look more into the design ideas behind the Citation 11.  Is the Citation 11 the best of the lot (I note several different numerical iterations of the Citation, so gather there must be something being changed about)?
   
  Maewoo: I know you are a Yammy fan...what's the quick and dirty on Yamaha HP output quality that is in the leagues of the SX-1250 and other desirables?
   
  For the record, there is a 7/10-quality rebuilt Fisher KX-100 with NOS matched 7868 tubes up for bid and going down in the next 11 hours on E-Bay.  Its a relisted, reserve auction item that did not make the seller's grade last week at the bid price of $134.  Here is the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260905107706?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
   
  I am not going to bid for it since its too low powered for my tastes and I already have two tube HP amps....


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Jc9394 and Moodyrn, congrats on your Marantz scores!
> 
> That 2265b is just beautiful.  classic monster Marantz receivers in wood cabinets are just AWESOME.


 


  Thanks Rob and many thanks for you advice.  The 2265B is very powerful and drives the LCD-2 very nicely but it is kind of on the dark side but it does match the HD800 very well.  It is very forgiving too, I'm only feeding it with my iPhone and it sounds great.  I guess now I can look for a HE-6 to give it a try.
   
  Any one experienced how Marantz will drives the HE-6?  I'm very tempted to get a pair to try it out.


----------



## jc9394

How's Marantz' phono stage?  Can I get away using it instead purchase a dedicated one?  Not looking into highend vinyl.


----------



## francisdemarte

I use mine nearly everyday with Orthofon 2M Red on a SL-1210 Sounds great to me.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> I use mine nearly everyday with Orthofon 2M Red on a SL-1210 Sounds great to me.


 


  Excellent, this will save me some money...


----------



## sling5s

*Can I guess some advice/help:*
   
  I have Marantz 2215B and it has the "High Filter" button.  The Pioneer SX-737 has both "Low and High Filter".
  My question is, do most of you leave the Filter switch or button on or off?
  This is a dumb question but I am assuming the default mode is with the Filter switch/button off, right?


----------



## linuxid10t

I would suggest keeping it off unless the source is really, really bad.  It kills any sort of shimmer in songs.
  
  Quote: 





sling5s said:


> *Can I guess some advice/help:*
> 
> I have Marantz 2215B and it has the "High Filter" button.  The Pioneer SX-737 has both "Low and High Filter".
> My question is, do most of you leave the Filter switch or button on or off?
> This is a dumb question but I am assuming the default mode is with the Filter switch/button off, right?


----------



## BmWr75

OFF on every vintage amp I own.
  
  Quote: 





sling5s said:


> *Can I guess some advice/help:*
> 
> I have Marantz 2215B and it has the "High Filter" button.  The Pioneer SX-737 has both "Low and High Filter".
> My question is, do most of you leave the Filter switch or button on or off?
> This is a dumb question but I am assuming the default mode is with the Filter switch/button off, right?


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





linuxid10t said:


> I would suggest keeping it off unless the source is really, really bad.  It kills any sort of shimmer in songs.


 


  You mean like tubes do?


----------



## linuxid10t

Nah, tubes can shimmer.  Just depends on your amp.
  
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> You mean like tubes do?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





linuxid10t said:


> I would suggest keeping it off unless the source is really, really bad.  It kills any sort of shimmer in songs.


 


  I keep it off on my 2215B.   I use the Marantz 2215B with a pair of Audio Technica ATH AD700's to watch high def TV files at night.  It is a really good combo.   Nice warmth out of the 2215B.  Sometime I substitute the LCD-2's for the 700 but since the 700's are much lighter in wight I use them so I can forget about something on my head.    The Flat screen setup is where I use my Marantz 2215 and the Yamaha C820. But once I get my Sansui AU 505 integrated amp refurbished I'm selling the two receivers since I never listen to FM and the displays are too bright for TV viewing.


----------



## sling5s

Thanks everyone.  With my Magnums, I'm fine with the "High Filter" off on the Marantz 2215B, but with the Pioneer SX-737, it's way too bright without the High Filter off.
  Maybe it's the Magnums.  I'm sure when my LCD-2 rev.2 arrives, I'll probably like the Filter switch off on the Pioneer SX-737. 
  
  Quote: 





linuxid10t said:


> I would suggest keeping it off unless the source is really, really bad.  It kills any sort of shimmer in songs.


 
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> OFF on every vintage amp I own.


 
  Warrior Ant:
  Do you find the Marantz adequate to power your LCD-2? 
  How do you like it with your LCD-2?  I'm regretting I sold my Lyr and hope my Asgard or Marantz or at least my Pioneer is sufficient to power the LCD-2.
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I keep it off on my 2215B.   I use the Marantz 2215B with a pair of Audio Technica ATH AD700's to watch high def TV files at night.  It is a really good combo.   Nice warmth out of the 2215B.  Sometime I substitute the LCD-2's for the 700 but since the 700's are much lighter in wight I use them so I can forget about something on my head.    The Flat screen setup is where I use my Marantz 2215 and the Yamaha C820. But once I get my Sansui AU 505 integrated amp refurbished I'm selling the two receivers since I never listen to FM and the displays are too bright for TV viewing.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





> Warrior Ant:
> Do you find the Marantz adequate to power your LCD-2?
> How do you like it with your LCD-2?  I'm regretting I sold my Lyr and hope my Asgard or Marantz or at least my Pioneer is sufficient to power the LCD-2.


 


  The 2215B was not adequate to power the LCD-2.  If I had never heard the LCD-2 on anything else I guess I could be happy with the 2215B and the LCD-2.  The 2215B has plenty of volume with the LCD-2 and it sounds good enough it's just that the real magic of the LCD-2 is not there with full range music. There is no distortion or strain, there just isn't the 3D to the music like there is with my V200.     I have a Sansui AU 505 and that unit is very nice with the LCD-2.  It gives my SS amp a run for its money.


----------



## mr.khali

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I am really sick of beautiful Marantz here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don' t think anyone has discussed Tandberg's on this thread as yet.  How does it compare to your Yamaha's and Luxman prizes?


----------



## wotts

Quote:


jc9394 said:


> Any one experienced how Marantz will drives the HE-6?  I'm very tempted to get a pair to try it out.


 


  I really enjoy the HE-6 out of my 2265B. It is smoother than the Aleph 3, but that comes at the cost of punch and detail. The 2265B is far more practical than using a speaker amp as far as space goes I think. I have a pre-amp feeing the power amp, and I could just have the Marantz sitting here instead. And let's face it, the blue glow and silver face is just dead-sexy.


----------



## singh

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yeah, the LED index and wood case definitely help 9800 fetch more money than 9900. To me, 9900 is more rare and almost a integrated SPEC system.
> Could you tell me why 9800 has much better specs?


 

 for starters the sa-9800 had, THD 0.005% of compared to  0,1% of SA9900
   
  then , the sa-9800 separate transformers for both channels ,opposed to 1 of sa9900
   
  the sa-9800 were also based on newer non-switching technology


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I really enjoy the HE-6 out of my 2265B. It is smoother than the Aleph 3, but that comes at the cost of punch and detail. The 2265B is far more practical than using a speaker amp as far as space goes I think. I have a pre-amp feeing the power amp, and I could just have the Marantz sitting here instead. And let's face it, the blue glow and silver face is just dead-sexy.


 


   
  Nice, time to look for a used he-6.


----------



## Nerolucido

warriorant said:


> I have a Sansui AU 505 and that unit is very nice with the LCD-2.  It gives my SS amp a run for its money.



Hi,

I've seen you before making this very statement , but one doubt remains: which SS amp are you referring to? your own V200 ?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





singh said:


> for starters the sa-9800 had, THD 0.005% of compared to  0,1% of SA9900
> 
> then , the sa-9800 separate transformers for both channels ,opposed to 1 of sa9900
> 
> the sa-9800 were also based on newer non-switching technology


 
   
  Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> The key is in the words "non-switching". We've discussed this earlier in this thread. Singh may come in with his own explanation, and I hope he does, In the meantime, take a look at this post over at AK.


 
  Thanks guys for all information!!
  I am not tech guy, I still can't completely understand "non-switching" thing. But I will dig it more.
   
  @singh,
  I am not arguing with you, but I read from AK that human can't distinguish the THD below 0.1%. Does the lowest THD that matter as long as it's already below 0.1%?
   
  As for the twin mono design, it seems a real tech improvement. And I buy this idea, so I have Au-517, SA-9500 ii, KA-7300, Technics SU-8080, Optonica SM-4545(not sure, will check), and NAD 3140, but I still love my non twin-mono design Luxman L-85v most. And as for Pioneer, I prefer SA-9100 to SA-9500 ii. Again, it's just MHO.
  As for people who like twin-mono design, Optonica SM-4646 has three transformers, one is designed to power Pre-amp part. It really sounds crazy, I am still looking for one.
   
   
  Although I haven't heard either, I may have intent to prove SA-9900 is not inferior to SA-9800. Because many people on AK like Pioneer Spec system, and SA-9900 is the one close to SPEC system enough. Or all my argument is just making my future purchase of SA-9900 justified. But isn't  it fun of choice, cheers!!


----------



## sling5s

Anyone prefer their Pioneer SX-6xx, SX-7-xx or SX-8xx over their Lyr for the LCD-2?


----------



## jc9394

The more I listen to the Marantz 2265B, the more I like it.  Maybe my head is burn in with it's sound signature, it pair very well with HD800 and LCD-2.  The best thing about it, it is the forgiving characteristic of the Marantz, I can simply use iPod (flac files) with LOD out and it sound amazing.  I need to get this hook up to the PWD to see what it is capable of doing...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The more I listen to the Marantz 2265B, the more I like it.  Maybe my head is burn in with it's sound signature, it pair very well with HD800 and LCD-2.  The best thing about it, it is the forgiving characteristic of the Marantz, I can simply use iPod (flac files) with LOD out and it sound amazing.  I need to get this hook up to the PWD to see what it is capable of doing...


 

 Yes, Marantz's sound is very forgiving, it can just tame the harsh of digital sound. It also can be addictive, the more you listen, the more you like it. All you want is more Marantz. But then when you listen to others, you realized that they can sound different from Marantz, but still be fantastic. Yes, I will definitely say Marantz sound is *addictive* even though it is not flat as modern audio stuff is pursuing.
  I have a chance to listen to Marantz 2265b in a audiophile friend's house. I brought my Marantz 1060 with me too. We A/B test 2265b and 1060 with Allison CD9 speakers(they are 4ohm speakers), and we all agree that 1060 sound a little sweeter. His partial restored 2265b (except the big caps) sound a little harder (comparing to softness of 1060), and has more punch on low end. The difference is tiny, I don't think I can remember the difference if you didn't quickly switch the amp.  The day we also listened to his restored Fisher 500c (or 800c), and 1060 is more close to the Fisher sound. Hey, but we didn't listen to Rock'n'Roll, maybe 2265b good for heavy punchy stuff.
  You may want to try the early model of Marantz, like 2070, 2040(?), 1060, 1030 non B version, most AKers believe they are best sounding Marantz in 70's. I saw 60, 65, 75, ,80, 85, but no 70 here. Does anyone here have 2070? And could you chime in  for the sound?


----------



## jc9394

The owner I brought the 2265B had a 2270 and he missed it.  I think I'm going to get a Sansui or Pioneer before getting more MArantz, need to see which one have a more suitable sound signature to me.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Livewire and Maewoo:  thanks for the explanation.  I will do my due diligence and look more into the design ideas behind the Citation 11.  Is the Citation 11 the best of the lot (I note several different numerical iterations of the Citation, so gather there must be something being changed about)?
> Maewoo: I know you are a Yammy fan...what's the quick and dirty on Yamaha HP output quality that is in the leagues of the SX-1250 and other desirables?


 
  I recommend Citation 11 since I know it has strange HP amp design. I don't think other Citation pre-amp has this kind of design. Though member here confirmed Pionner Spec 1  also has the same HP amp design.
   
  If you want Pioneer SX-1250, then you won’t find anything that is close to SX-1250. And I found even in this saggy economy, SX-1250, SX-1280  and SX-1980 are going higher and higher on ePay. So buying Pionner SX-1250 might be a good investment.
   
  As for me, I am not big fan of x50 line, I found earlier lines sound good to me. I just can’t enjoy the airy sound of x50 line, it may help expand the horizontal sound stage, but sometimes it feels hollow. You can image you stretch cloth, the space of each thread was enlarged and you can’t feel the original texture. Or you can image brush wall with same amount paint, if you brush the wall quick, you can cover a large area, but you may not get the delicate of the color and sometimes you leave hollow dot in paint. Yamaha is carefully and slowly brushed paint under natural light, same as Luxman but under Luxman’s magic soft light. They all don’t cover the same large area as Pioneer, but you can feel the best of the paint. Luxman might have a little less horizontal sound stage than x50 when power headphone, but it definitely has more 3d and large sound-stage powering speakers. I just can’t get the 3d feel on headphones.
   
  And I think every TOTL receiver or integrated amp should sound good. Here in this thread, members cover almost all  big receivers except the one from Nikko, MCS, Sanyo, Sherwood and Hitachi. I assume they all sound good otherwise no one will mention them on AK. And I found a link http://www.chuckhawks.com/recommended_used_audio_components.htm . I don’t know the guy but I think he is very good. I found that my favorite stuff of my stash is all on list except Yamaha CA. But again, I don’t think Yamaha is in the same league as Luxman in late 70’s.  And yes, my SAE mark IVC and IXB sound that good!! Just let your ears decide!!

  
  Quote: 





mr.khali said:


> I don' t think anyone has discussed Tandberg's on this thread as yet.  How does it compare to your Yamaha's and Luxman prizes?


 
  I didn't completely clean my Tabdberg yet since it is hard to reach the pots. It is built very solid but totally different from Japanese one. It uses a lot of hinges to fix different parts around front part of receiver (not many screws), it looks like Lego. I don't have time to dissemble this little piece and am afraid that I won't put them together again. It sound very warm (tuby sound?) and it reminds me Marantz 1060,  Sony STR-7065 and my sold Sansui 5000x. I can say it's the SS sound before 1975. Besides, Tandberg looks very sexy and classic.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





nerolucido said:


> Hi,
> I've seen you before making this very statement , but one doubt remains: which SS amp are you referring to? your own V200 ?


 

  
  That's right.  The 505 is not in the same class as the V200.  It doesn't have anything near the finesse of the V200 and can't really compete but if you own a pair of LCD's and can't yet afford a high end amp you can do pretty well with some of the lower Sansui models until you can get a better amp.  The 505 only cost me $50 without shipping.    The vintage stuff really makes one wonder what is the best way to spend money on gear.   And the thing about vintage is that you don't have to have top of the line vintage models to get really good sound for many of the headphones that are out there.    I get a beautiful sound out of my Marantz 2215B ($5) and my daughters Audio Technica ($80), and I found a pair of Bose 301 ($15) for one of my flat screens with the Marantz.   so while everyone is now paying premium prices for top of the line vintage models you can still fly under the radar and get good quality gear for still modest prices.


----------



## moodyrn

That's true, but like everything else, higher end vintage models are still in another league from the lower end vintaged models. The sweet spot for vintage is probably the mid tier ones. They come close to the sound of totl ones. But the lower ends ones still sounds very good, but they don't have the trannies and power supplies of the higher end ones which is why they sound a lot better. But I agree about having to rethink where to spend money. You  still can get totl models for the price you pay for a budget headphone amp. And ultimately that's where the true value lies. Even if you do shell outt 600-800.00 on a refurbished totl, you would have to spend thousands on modern gear to supass that.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meltdown100 said:


> Okay, after seeing that gorgeous Marantz my recent acquisition is not much to look at, but I'm still quite happy to have scored it and what the heck, I'll post a pic - this looks almost new and it is almost 40 years old (like me).  Sadly I'll need to get her fixed up before I can get a real listen:


 

 That's still an excellent find. I can tell you from experience, that receiver sounds absolutely wonderful. I love the sx line.
   


  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Moodyrn, you made me cry, cry, cry!  The 2325 was on my bid list yesterday, but the bidding for the 2275 took place 10 or so minutes before the 2325.  It was a toss up: an immaculate 2275 vs a clearly restorable, WORKING, with cabinet, 2325 that was 2 hours away from me in a town I grew up in.  But I won the 2275 and knew I was courting death if I bid on the 2325....Had I lost the 2275, I would have bid $409 (what I bid for the 2275) and snatched it from you....Congrats on getting the 2325 for $6.00 less than what I paid for the 2275.
> You should go to jail for just having the luck itself....there such as too much of a good thing, now.....


 

 Ha, I'm glad you chose the 2275. It ended up being a win for me. But that price is really good for a 2275 in that kind of condition, and I'm sure you won't regret it. By the time I'm done with the 2325, I'm sure I will end up investing a lot more than I paid for it.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Don't forget the the vintage stuff looks so cool.  
   
  http://www.vintageaudioonline.com/sansui-au-505-integrated-amplifier/


----------



## meltdown100

The funny part was when I fired up the SX-828, I had good sound for about 30 seconds - very punchy and warm.  Then whatever last drops of life those capacitors had left evaporated and I had nothing but faint scratchy sound in one channel.  It was a serious tease, but I heard enough to know that getting her fixed would be worth it.  Shipping out this weekend to get serviced.


----------



## Meewoo

That's sad!!
   
  I have sx-727, really nice stuff. I was going to buy a 525 & 828 for $100, but the seller changed his mind. I hope you can find a tech for fair price to fix it. And you may want to change the speaker binders, I really hate the Pioneer plug type binder. For the price to buy a new pair, I think I can have them replaced by banana binders.


----------



## meltdown100

The owner (original owner, actually) had the speaker plugs so I'm good there.  They don't look like they would be too difficult to fabricate if necessary but I like your idea.  
   
  The thing I'm gonna struggle with is those RCA inputs, L and R are ridiculously close and my nicer interconnects don't fit, plugs are way too fat.  I'll have to find (or make) something low profile.
   
  I'm using the stereorepair.net service that somebody else mentioned earlier in the thread, they seem to be decent and quoted me $250ish to redo all the capacitors and get it 100% which I think is fair.  Will have to wait 4 weeks though.
   
  I see myself buying a few more of these (meaning vintage receivers) - very well made.  Heavy knobs that roll smooth, just nice to look at and touch - I'll bet that many of the less popular vintage units still sound very nice once serviced.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I know I've posted this site before but thought I'd post it again in for the Marantz folks who recently picked up a vintage Marantz
   
  http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/
   
  another site for rebuilds
   
  http://www.cdkands.com/index2.html


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> The more I listen to the Marantz 2265B, the more I like it.  Maybe my head is burn in with it's sound signature, it pair very well with HD800 and LCD-2.  The best thing about it, it is the forgiving characteristic of the Marantz, I can simply use iPod (flac files) with LOD out and it sound amazing.  I need to get this hook up to the PWD to see what it is capable of doing...


 

 My HD800 sound wonderful right out of the headphone jack of my 2240, using my PWD as source.  The synergy is just amazing.  It's actually my second best amp in the house with HD800.  If I didn't own the 2240 or my Eddie Current ZDT amps the HD800 would have possibly gone away a long time ago.  Before the ZDT I used a WA6 with dark sounding tubes, but the ZDT came within 2 months of the HD800 and I haven't looked back.  I have been using the HE-6 from the speaker outputs and love it, but the headphone jack was a little too weak for the HE-6.  I haven't bothered to try the LCD-2 out of the 2240 yet, since I keep them up in my bedroom rig paired with DACmini or balanced SR-71b.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Don't forget the the vintage stuff looks so cool.
> 
> http://www.vintageaudioonline.com/sansui-au-505-integrated-amplifier/


 

 Thanks for the awesome vintage page! Here is one i bet/hope you dont have
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




;
   
  http://audioklassiks.de/wordpress/


----------



## cifani090

Wow, look at this. I wonder what it's going to go for...
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fisher-Remote-Control-X-1000-Stereo-Master-Tube-Amplifier-Vintage-Original-/230711187351?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item35b7755797


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Thanks for the awesome vintage page! Here is one i bet/hope you dont have
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hey did you see this from that site?  Paper model of the Pioneer model SD1100!  http://audioklassiks.de/wordpress/?cat=28


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Hey did you see this from that site?  Paper model of the Pioneer model SD1100!  http://audioklassiks.de/wordpress/?cat=28


 
   
  Thanks for bringing it to my attention, but no, i did not see that! Very cool!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know I've posted this site before but thought I'd post it again in for the Marantz folks who recently picked up a vintage Marantz
> 
> http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/


 

  There is some dissatisfaction being expressed with this repair/restore fellow over on AudioKarma.org.  I have no first hand experience with him, just sharing the thread.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=374948


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> There is some dissatisfaction being expressed with this repair/restore fellow over on AudioKarma.org.  I have no first hand experience with him, just sharing the thread.
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=374948


 

 Good to know.  Looks like he's gotten himself swamped and has bitten off far more than he can chew.


----------



## Wharfrat

Meewoo:
   
  Your link to that vintage gear list by Chuck is much appreciated, but I must admit major befuddlement: not so much as one Pioneer item made his list...makes me wonder why?  We all can't be that wrong nor could someone with as much experience listening to vintage gear not at least say Pioneer was in the same league as other comparable quality items us faithful readers have sufficient consensus in saying are actually as good or better than some items on that list.
   
  Just got my Marantz 2275 and it is indeed in most excellent condition...no scratches whatsoever, but not completely NIB tho.  Will report how it fares with my HP stablemates.


----------



## Skylab

Like with everything, people have their favorites and biases with vintage gear.  I like both the classic Pioneer and Marantz sounds, although they are quite different.


----------



## ccklone

Hey Now,
   
  Yeah, I have a couple of vintage Nikko receivers (7075 & NR-815) and they have a sound signature between the Marantz and Pioneer. I also have a 2275 and am hoping to get an SX850 here shortly. Love these old units. I will have to post some picks of my vintage receivers.
   
  --
  Finest kind,
  Chris


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Meewoo:
> 
> Your link to that vintage gear list by Chuck is much appreciated, but I must admit major befuddlement: not so much as one Pioneer item made his list...makes me wonder why?  We all can't be that wrong nor could someone with as much experience listening to vintage gear not at least say Pioneer was in the same league as other comparable quality items us faithful readers have sufficient consensus in saying are actually as good or better than some items on that list.
> 
> Just got my Marantz 2275 and it is indeed in most excellent condition...no scratches whatsoever, but not completely NIB tho.  Will report how it fares with my HP stablemates.


 

 Like Skylab said, personal preference is different.
   
  The Chuck guy didn't list any Pioneer, he might never heard any good one or he just didn't like them. We don't have to treat his list as authority or something most important.  I found his list has reference value since he only listed the equipment he had audited and there's no obvious commercial bias. You might notice that he only list a few Japanese companies like Accuphase, Luxman and Kenwood Tuner. He might not like Japanese stuff or he just don't have chance to listen to others (he didn't list whole list that he had audited).
   
  I treat his list like this: I found he listed SAE IVC and I like it. And I found Hafler DH 500 in his list, I think  I will have  *70% chance* to like  Hafler DH 500 also. The other 30% chance may be my personal preference to decide. We will never know what we like if we didn't try. His list gives us just a good reference.
   
  Hoe you can share your impression with your new acquired equipments!!! Most all, enjoy music!!!
  (BTW, your Adcom 555 II isn't on the list, but it has rave review across AK. Only complain seems lacking the protection circuit.)


----------



## francisdemarte

Lots of ss gear. Where are all the owners of old tube like HH Scott, Fisher, Sherwood, Eico at?


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





francisdemarte said:


> Lots of ss gear. Where are all the owners of old tube like HH Scott, Fisher, Sherwood, Eico at?


 

 There are a couple of us here that have fishers - X100-B, and various iterations...  great sounding headphone out on mine.


----------



## Meewoo

deleted


----------



## moodyrn

I'm another proud owner of a fisher x100c. Fantastic tube speaker amp, and headphone amp is much better than a wa6. Maybe not quiet wa22, but it's close. I would have to hear them side by side. They have excellent output transformers. Love the blue aura that emits from the 7868 tube. It's not a gimmicky blue light that's installed like with some cheap tube amps.


----------



## ardgedee

There are fewer different kinds of vintage tube receivers/integrated amps, and there are less of them to go around. By comparison, there are a lot of 70s receivers still in working condition, and more being found every week.
   
  The old tube amps are also underpowered by modern standards. In my opinion you can often get better sound quality (not just quantity, but quality) for your dollar with recent tube gear compared to fully refurbed vintage tube gear. By comparison, old discrete transistorized equipment can provide excellent bang for the buck compared to modern solid-state counterparts.
   
  I've got a Scott and a Fisher and love them, but I could also be talked into trading them in for one single good integrated amp of more recent design, if the right one was on offer...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> There are fewer different kinds of vintage tube receivers/integrated amps, and there are less of them to go around. By comparison, there are a lot of 70s receivers still in working condition, and more being found every week.
> 
> The old tube amps are also underpowered by modern standards. In my opinion you can often get better sound quality (not just quantity, but quality) for your dollar with recent tube gear compared to fully refurbed vintage tube gear. By comparison, old discrete transistorized equipment can provide excellent bang for the buck compared to modern solid-state counterparts.
> 
> I've got a Scott and a Fisher and love them, but I could also be talked into trading them in for one single good integrated amp of more recent design, if the right one was on offer...


 
   
  Yeah, I have a friend who builds his tube stuff for fun and really enjoys the process. And he buys famous model schematic for reference. If you can restore old tube, I think you can build one yourself with good power supply and cap. My friend always use good power supply and high gauge power cable, this stuff are not always seen in old tube stuff.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> There are fewer different kinds of vintage tube receivers/integrated amps, and there are less of them to go around. By comparison, there are a lot of 70s receivers still in working condition, and more being found every week.
> 
> The old tube amps are also underpowered by modern standards. In my opinion you can often get better sound quality (not just quantity, but quality) for your dollar with recent tube gear compared to fully refurbed vintage tube gear. By comparison, old discrete transistorized equipment can provide excellent bang for the buck compared to modern solid-state counterparts.
> 
> I've got a Scott and a Fisher and love them, but I could also be talked into trading them in for one single good integrated amp of more recent design, if the right one was on offer...


 


  In my experience with my fisher I would have to disagree about value. Keep in mind I paid 250.00 for mine that was partially restored(you don't have to pay megabuck for them). Also the cost to refurbish one isn't that expensive. Like I said earlier, just the headphone out on mine sounds better than a wa6 which is more than twice the price. It's close to a wa22 which is almost ten times the price. No where will you find a modern amp that could even come close to the sound of the fisher for even double of what I paid for it.  And that's just talking about the headphone out. I like it as a speaker amp even more. You will have to spend 4 figures to beat it. The only amps I've heard that were better were in excess of 4 figures. The value in vintage tube gear is just as high if not higher than ss gear. There's a reason why they have been skyrocketing in price.


----------



## Skylab

I also have a Fisher X-100, and I love it.  However, finding vintage tube amps in good operating condition is more challenging than the vintage SS stuff.  I love the Fisher, but I got mine recapped - a tube amp with bad caps is a much bigger problem than a SS one.


----------



## Meewoo

*2011 Stereophile* *Headphone of the year*
  UE 18 Pro custom monitor in-ear headphones ($1350)
   
*Runners-up*
  Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold D/A headphone amplifier ($4495)
  JH Audio JH16 pro in-ear headphones ($1149)
  Smyth SVS Realiser A8 system ($3670)


----------



## BmWr75

I have three vintage tube amps that have been completely recapped by me and are used as headphone amps: Fisher X-101C, Kenwood KW-40 and AKAI M8 monoblocks.  Pictures of all three are below:


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I also have a Fisher X-100, and I love it.  However, finding vintage tube amps in good operating condition is more challenging than the vintage SS stuff.  I love the Fisher, but I got mine recapped - a tube amp with bad caps is a much bigger problem than a SS one.


 


  That's the negative about buying vintage tube amps. You have a much higher chance of finding a vintage ss in good condition. Most of the ones sold on ebay are listed as parts a repair only. But if happen to find one serviced/restored/, then you really have something. But even if you chose to go the route of getting one with the purpose of getting it serviced, it's still worth it and much cheaper than buying a modern piece that will sound as good. Would I trade mine for a modern piece? Sure(not likely), but it wont be for a 500.00 or even a 1000.00 amp. Because then IMO I would be getting the worst end of the deal. That's how much I like my fisher. But others(who have experience with these) are welcome to disagree.


----------



## ardgedee

Yes, I was very, very lucky with the prices on all of my vintage tube equipment as well as the cost of their refurbishment. Somebody, somewhere will also find an SX-1250 in perfect working order at a yard sale for $50 or so next year. Such things happen.
   
  Using sales on Audiogon as a price guide, early-60s tube equipment can get you into quality tube audio but without a significant cost advantage over modern used gear, after factoring in the recapping and tuning that's more often required for 50 year old electronics. You also miss amenities like auto-biasing, and audio purists with vintage gear get extra switches in the signal path for functions we don't use any more.
   
  I don't want to discourage anybody from pursuing this stuff (if I hated it, I wouldn't have it!), but I don't want to understate the total cost of ownership either.


----------



## moodyrn

Also the build quality of these things can't be understated. Let me share something that happened several months ago. At one point I had the fisher set up with a system I was using upstairs in my office. I had the fisher sitting on a rack in front of a window. I use to love sitting back at night in my lazy chair with the window up enjoying the cool open air breeze while enjoying the sweet sounds of the fisher.
   
  One night I turned my fisher on and went downstairs to get a snack while it was warming up. And out of nowhere it started raining hard, and I had left the window open. My heart sunk. When I got back upstairs, the fisher was smoking and it smelled like the house was on fire. I even tripped not only the breaker in that room, but the whole house.
   
  Once I unplugged it, all of the output tubes were shattered, and two of the input tubes were blown as well. I was devastated. I had blown my fisher!!! I was prepared to spend whatever it took to get it repaired, but I knew parts may not be easy to come by. I opened it up to see what else was damaged. I tested the rest of the 12ax7s and they were still good. I found a pair of the very rare 7868 on line that tested near nos, and pick up a pair of some nice sylvannia 12ax7s. Plugged them in and the fisher was singing again.
   
  I took it to a local shop that I use to service all of my gear, and the guy told me that everything else was good. Not a bad resistor or cap anywhere. The output tubes were fine. The only thing the rain did was blow my tubes. If you would have seen what I saw, you would have been convinced as I was the whole thing was blown. But with a change of tubes it was back to playing the way it was previously. Well with the better tubes I bought, it actually sounds better now. These things are built to last.


----------



## Skylab

You can get fully modded/restored Scott tube integrateds from these guys, which I'm sure are awesome, but they are not cheap (although they are not that expensive either, in the scheme of things):
   
  http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Ultra-Modified-Vintage-Tube-Amps/products/178/
   
  I have been often tempted to buy one, but have never pulled the trigger.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I have three vintage tube amps that have been completely recapped by me and are used as headphone amps: Fisher X-101C, Kenwood KW-40 and AKAI M8 monoblocks.  Pictures of all three are below:


 

  
  Beautiful!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I have three vintage tube amps that have been completely recapped by me and are used as headphone amps: Fisher X-101C, Kenwood KW-40 and AKAI M8 monoblocks.  Pictures of all three are below:


 
   
  Nice units, ive been looking into mono-blocks, and the ones you have seem to not be name brand, so IMO you must of gotten a good deal.
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Yes, I was very, very lucky with the prices on all of my vintage tube equipment as well as the cost of their refurbishment. Somebody, somewhere will also find an SX-1250 in perfect working order at a yard sale for $50 or so next year. Such things happen.
> 
> Using sales on Audiogon as a price guide, early-60s tube equipment can get you into quality tube audio but without a significant cost advantage over modern used gear, after factoring in the recapping and tuning that's more often required for 50 year old electronics. You also miss amenities like auto-biasing, and audio purists with vintage gear get extra switches in the signal path for functions we don't use any more.
> 
> I don't want to discourage anybody from pursuing this stuff (if I hated it, I wouldn't have it!), but I don't want to understate the total cost of ownership either.


 

 I paid $450 6 months ago for mine, and im very happy. About average for craigslist, and mine's in great condition.
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Also the build quality of these things can't be understated. Let me share something that happened several months ago. At one point I had the fisher set up with a system I was using upstairs in my office. I had the fisher sitting on a rack in front of a window. I use to love sitting back at night in my lazy chair with the window up enjoying the cool open air breeze while enjoying the sweet sounds of the fisher.
> 
> One night I turned my fisher on and went downstairs to get a snack while it was warming up. And out of nowhere it started raining hard, and I had left the window open. My heart sunk. When I got back upstairs, the fisher was smoking and it smelled like the house was on fire. I even tripped not only the breaker in that room, but the whole house.
> 
> ...


 

 So sorry to hear about that. If i were to get tube gear, i also like to open my window, but my gear would be far out of reach for the water to hit it. It might also be temperature/ humidity as well that can affect tubes.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


skylab said:


> You can get fully modded/restored Scott tube integrateds from these guys, which I'm sure are awesome, but they are not cheap (although they are not that expensive either, in the scheme of things):


 

 Similarly, I've been tempted to send Mapleshade my Scott, since it's a model they're familiar with, and they have a healthy, positive reputation. I might also do the work myself. Old tube amps are all point-to-point wiring with nice fat solder joints, so setting aside feeling nervousness about fiddling with the wiring in electronics this old it should be much easier to work on than anything more recent. But then the real question comes of whether I just want to be able to upgrade some components to nicer things or do a real hot-rod and replace the RCA jacks, bypass all controls but the volume and source switch, replace the captive power cord with an IEC socket, and so on. The mind reels.


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> In my experience with my fisher I would have to disagree about value. Keep in mind I paid 250.00 for mine that was partially restored(you don't have to pay megabuck for them). Also the cost to refurbish one isn't that expensive. Like I said earlier, just the headphone out on mine sounds better than a wa6 which is more than twice the price. It's close to a wa22 which is almost ten times the price. No where will you find a modern amp that could even come close to the sound of the fisher for even double of what I paid for it.  And that's just talking about the headphone out. I like it as a speaker amp even more. You will have to spend 4 figures to beat it. The only amps I've heard that were better were in excess of 4 figures. The value in vintage tube gear is just as high if not higher than ss gear. There's a reason why they have been skyrocketing in price.


 

 I had my Fisher X-100B restored by Paul at Tube Audio Design.  He also re-wired the headphone out direct to the 16 ohm taps.  My total investment after re-furb around $500.  I had a WA22 at the time to compare it to.  Honestly, there was / is very little difference.  Sold the Woo.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Nice units, ive been looking into mono-blocks, and the ones you have seem to not be name brand, so IMO you must of gotten a good deal.


 

  The AKAIs came out of a suitcase reel-to-reel player.  Same amps were branded Roberts.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The AKAIs came out of a suitcase reel-to-reel player.  Same amps were branded Roberts.


 

 I found that they came out of the M-8 Reel-to-Reel. What speakers do you have running with them? How many watts? Also of old amps and stuff like this, and having custom speaker wire, it's thick, so how do you replace the speaker terminals?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I found that they came out of the M-8 Reel-to-Reel. What speakers do you have running with them? How many watts? Also of old amps and stuff like this, and having custom speaker wire, it's thick, so how do you replace the speaker terminals?


 

 Yep, out of an M8 rtr.  I've hooked them up to my Klipsch KLF-20s once, they sounded great.  Use them mainly as a headphone amp.  Think they put out 4-6 watts each, typically for a single ended pentode amp.  No, I didn't replace the speaker terminals, which are 1/4" jacks that take mono guitar type plugs.  Just built myself a pair of speaker wires terminated in 1/4 mono male plugs on one end.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You can get fully modded/restored Scott tube integrateds from [Mapleshade]... I have been often tempted to buy one, but have never pulled the trigger.


 

 How can you *not* buy an amp from the guy largely responsible for the existence of the A-10 "Warthog" ?


----------



## Skylab

LOL! And what would that be?


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL! And what would that be?


 


  A turbofan engined airplane designed to do one thing - carry a 30mm Gattling gun


----------



## treal512

That was the plane my dad loved working on the most in the AF 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  What does it have to do with Scott?


----------



## wualta

Mapleshade was started by Pierre Sprey, whose story pops up in this book. Search on his name and you'll find he had an exciting life before his audio career. Still does. The term "Pentagon bureaucratic insider guerrilla warrior" would not be too strong a term. So if *he* wants to sell you an airplane, or an amplifier... it's at least worth a second look, I'd say.


----------



## cifani090

Here are some pictures from my newly acquired Panasonic GF-1 with a [size=small]Canon FD 28mm f2.8[/size].


----------



## Skylab

That's fascinating...cool stuff Wualta thanks!
   
  Nice pics cifani090.  How's it sound?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's fascinating...cool stuff Wualta thanks!
> 
> Nice pics cifani090.  How's it sound?


 

 Great! That's the Pioneer 1250, that ive had for about 6-7 months (if that's even correct) and it's been better than my Marantz 2270 and Sansui AU-999. I think the 1250 and my JBL L100's are perfect, and i dont really want to sell them quite yet, i love them too much! I think ive gotten over trading the AU-999, but i wouln't mind the AU-22000


----------



## Skylab

LOL! I thought that looked a lot like a 1250.  I missed that the Panasonic was a camera.  d'Oh!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I missed that the Panasonic was a camera.  d'Oh!


 


  Me too!!  I'm thinking that Panasonic must be a rebadged Pioneer.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Me too!!  I'm thinking that Panasonic must be a rebadged Pioneer.


 

 Hahah, it might as well be.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Mapleshade was started by Pierre Sprey, whose story pops up in this book. Search on his name and you'll find he had an exciting life before his audio career. Still does. The term "Pentagon bureaucratic insider guerrilla warrior" would not be too strong a term. So if *he* wants to sell you an airplane, or an amplifier... it's at least worth a second look, I'd say.


 


  Pierre is a cool dude call up and he answers the phone and will talk to for hours if you want too. Kind of think  he may have been CIA who knows but a great audipophile and interesting guy. have many albums and an unforgettable conversation.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You can get fully modded/restored Scott tube integrateds from these guys, which I'm sure are awesome, but they are not cheap (although they are not that expensive either, in the scheme of things):
> 
> http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Ultra-Modified-Vintage-Tube-Amps/products/178/
> 
> I have been often tempted to buy one, but have never pulled the trigger.


 


  You can trust Pierre Rob  a top flight dude call him and chat its a call worth making


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> In case anyone is looking for NAD service this place does it.  I've sent some inquiries to them and they seem to know the NAD line pretty well.  If you own a "PE" model and get the amp serviced they will mod the power supply for free removing the power restrictions the PE line imposes on its line.
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/art2/stereorepair117/NAD.htm


 


  cool ! thanks but I really don't need any more power than the 7240 delivers, If I still had my 7225 that would have been different !


----------



## BmWr75

Hey Guys,
   
  Over on AudioKarma.org in Bartertown (subscriber only section) there are four monster receivers for sale from one fellow  that are in good condition and priced right (+ actual shipping).
   
*Pioneer SX1080 *$200
*Marantz SR9000B *$150
*Pioneer SX1010 *$180
*Kenwood KR-8010 *$175
   
  Subscribing to AK at $25/year is worth the price of admission.
   
  Regards,
  Scott


----------



## Skylab

I saw that post - nice prices.  I love the fact that Barter Town is subscriber only. Keeps the values up and the crap level down.  A good way to do it.


----------



## BmWr75

This came in my latest issue of Popular Mechanics this week.  Nice recognition for your hobby.  The speakers are KLH and receiver is Sansui.


----------



## Skylab

Ha! Very nice.  And so true!


----------



## moodyrn

I wonder if I could ever get my 2325 to look like this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230712620534?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I wonder if I could ever get my 2325 to look like this one?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/230712620534?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


 

 Now I have to ask you a question. Are you always eyeing on receivers? Why don't you consider the integrated and separate? (I just know Marantz 3300 pre-amp has speaker power feedback design also.)


----------



## moodyrn

No, and I have no interest for purchasing this. It popup on my home ebay page as "other items you may be interested in". And also if you read some of my previous posts, you will see that I sold all of my vintage receivers and was starting over going into the direction of integrated. I only purchased this because of how good the price was. My very first vintage piece(and the currently the only one untill the 2325 arrives) is an integrated. Now I'm wondering why would you ask such a question, that will be the only vintage receiver I own when others owns many.


----------



## Meewoo

Yes, I know you are selling your Kenwood and Pioneer.( It seem s that you already sold, congrats!!) I think your new acquired Marantz will be like the one on ePay after you refurnished the wood case. The wood case condition really affects the look of vintage stuff.


----------



## ardgedee

I'm always looking at more things than I intend to buy. It's the best way to learn about what's out there and be ready for opportunities.
   
  For example my next audio purchase will be some speakers and possibly a small amp for the living room. Since there's no urgency, I'm spending a few hours a week getting a sense of what's available and garnering praise, so that I can recognize when a particular offer is a good deal or a sleeper of an item.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I'm always looking at more things than I intend to buy. It's the best way to learn about what's out there and be ready for opportunities.
> 
> For example my next audio purchase will be some speakers and possibly a small amp for the living room. Since there's no urgency, I'm spending a few hours a week getting a sense of what's available and garnering praise, so that I can recognize when a particular offer is a good deal or a sleeper of an item.


 

 Nice advice!!
   
  But we are all prone to some famous brands. How do we find the sleeper?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Over on AudioKarma.org in Bartertown (subscriber only section) there are four monster receivers for sale from one fellow  that are in good condition and priced right (+ actual shipping).
> 
> ...


 

 Do you truthfully find BarterTown worthwhile? I haven't subscribed, because it's $25, but if you find deals constantly i might as well sign up.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I saw that post - nice prices.  I love the fact that Barter Town is subscriber only. Keeps the values up and the crap level down.  A good way to do it.


 

 Have you found worthwhile deals on Barter Town?
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> No, and I have no interest for purchasing this. It popup on my home ebay page as "other items you may be interested in". And also if you read some of my previous posts, you will see that I sold all of my vintage receivers and was starting over going into the direction of integrated. I only purchased this because of how good the price was. My very first vintage piece(and the currently the only one untill the 2325 arrives) is an integrated. Now I'm wondering why would you ask such a question, that will be the only vintage receiver I own when others owns many.


 

 That's actually about 45 min. away from me!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Over on AudioKarma.org in Bartertown (subscriber only section) there are four monster receivers for sale from one fellow  that are in good condition and priced right (+ actual shipping).
> 
> ...


 

 wow are those working receivers?  those are good prices.    I'm very tempted to subscribe now but I am afraid...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


meewoo said:


> But we are all prone to some famous brands. How do we find the sleeper?


 

 Sleepers are where you stumble over 'em; things that the people who know about like, but which for whatever reason don't attract as much attention as their more popular counterparts. For example, in-production Pioneer speakers are not necessarily things you'd be considering as audiophile speakers, but the SP-BS41-LR has been garnering a lot of praise (and, significantly, a very positive review and bench test in Stereophile). If I'd been keeping an eye out earlier this year, I could've landed a pair when Woot was selling them for $60 a pair. I'd been considering the Paradigm Atom or the reissued NHT SuperOne, but now these are on the radar as well.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Do you truthfully find BarterTown worthwhile? I haven't subscribed, because it's $25, but if you find deals constantly i might as well sign up.
> 
> Have you found worthwhile deals on Barter Town?


 
   
  Yes I do.  Have gotten lots of nice deals on vintage equipment and tubes there.  AK also is big into charitable efforts, like feeding needy families at Christmas time.  So, I don't mind the $25 fee.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Yes I do.  Have gotten lots of nice deals on vintage equipment and tubes there.  AK also is big into charitable efforts, like feeding needy families at Christmas time.  So, I don't mind the $25 fee.


 
   
  Next time im needing a piece of gear, ill subscribe and look and hope to get something nice!


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, that marantz went for 1502+54.86 shipping. IMO, someone really overpaid for that. That's close to 1980 territory, and there are ton of better integrated and power amps you could find(vintage of course) that will not only be more powerful, but sound better as well. I could take mine to a marantz specialist and have it completely rebuilt, and not be out of anywhere close to 1500.00. Man that's a lot of money for a 125 watt amp. I thought it would go for over 1000.00 but not that much over it.


----------



## treal512

Makes me want a wood case for my 2275, but I don't think the glass shelf will hold the extra weight


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Wow, that marantz went for 1502+54.86 shipping. IMO, someone really overpaid for that. That's close to 1980 territory, and there are ton of better integrated and power amps you could find(vintage of course) that will not only be more powerful, but sound better as well. I could take mine to a marantz specialist and have it completely rebuilt, and not be out of anywhere close to 1500.00. Man that's a lot of money for a 125 watt amp. I thought it would go for over 1000.00 but not that much over it.


 


  Agree I was very surprised by that.  I'm all for paying for restored units...but that was a bit much for a 2325.


----------



## subzer0

New to the vintage receivers club!  Purchased this on Ebay (marantz 2270). 
   
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/2011121322103261.jpg/
   
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/20111213221013983.jpg/
   
  However, I am a bit lost on what I need to do in order to use my laptop as a source for it.  I am using a male to male rca cable out of my headphone jack on my laptop, and that is not producing any sound.  Am I correct in thinking I need to plug into the Aux port of the Marantz?  If anyone could link the cables I need, as I suspect I am doing things wrong/have wrong cable, I would be eternally grateful.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> New to the vintage receivers club!  Purchased this on Ebay (marantz 2270).
> 
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/2011121322103261.jpg/
> 
> ...


 

 RCA cable on the AUX output on the receiver to the green audio out port on your laptop should produce sound...


----------



## subzer0

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> RCA cable on the AUX output on the receiver to the green audio out port on your laptop should produce sound...


 

 My laptop doesn't seem to have an audio out port, just headphone and mic.


----------



## sluker

Dude. 
  Get a 3.5 male to 2 male RCA cable.http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021812&p_id=5575&seq=1&format=2.
  But get ready for lots of amplified computer noise.
  Invest in an entry level DAC such as a UDAC2 which you can get used for like $80.


----------



## subzer0

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Dude.
> Get a 3.5 male to 2 male RCA cable.http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021812&p_id=5575&seq=1&format=2.
> But get ready for lots of amplified computer noise.
> Invest in an entry level DAC such as a UDAC2 which you can get used for like $80.


 


  Ok, well despite all my stupidity it is working now, although when I fully plug the headphone in, I am only getting audio on one side.  If I mess around with it, I can get audio out of both sides...please tell me this always isn't going to be the case.  Is that do my current cable?  I am using this cable currently: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=5598&seq=1&format=2
   
  I am getting a DAC very soon, in 12 days in fact.  You are right about the computer noise.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  e - Upon further listening, theres parts missing in some songs, or they're severely muted.  Not ideal, but its kind of funny to hear songs with guitar solos missing.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> Ok, well despite all my stupidity it is working now, although when I fully plug the headphone in, I am only getting audio on one side.  If I mess around with it, I can get audio out of both sides...please tell me this always isn't going to be the case.  Is that do my current cable?  I am using this cable currently: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=5598&seq=1&format=2
> 
> I am getting a DAC very soon, in 12 days in fact.  You are right about the computer noise.
> 
> ...


 

 That's a symptom of your 3.5mm cable not seating, and you may be shorting the jack in your computer with the plug.  See my earlier PM advice about a decent cheap USB DAC, and use RCA cables to the Marantz.


----------



## Chris J

Anyone ever try the headphone jack on a Bryston 2B-LP?


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> Ok, well despite all my stupidity it is working now, although when I fully plug the headphone in, I am only getting audio on one side.  If I mess around with it, I can get audio out of both sides...please tell me this always isn't going to be the case.  Is that do my current cable?  I am using this cable currently: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=5598&seq=1&format=2
> 
> I am getting a DAC very soon, in 12 days in fact.  You are right about the computer noise.
> 
> ...


 

 Make sure you have a stereo 3.5mm jack (two stripes), I've bought mono before by mistake myself, also remember this will be relatively lower output than a line out , it'll work but you may have to have the volume on the laptop pretty high as well.


----------



## TheMarkRemains

well the cable looks right, I agree, must not be fully seated. You could have a bad RCA terminal as well try it on one of the other inputs


----------



## sling5s

It might be my imagination but my Marantz 2215B sounds warmer when it's turned out and gradually as it's left on longer it sounds like the treble gets brighter and more splashy.
  Do something need to be replaced or is it my imagination?
   
  Secondly, are IEM's (very low impedance and very sensitive cans) like JH13pro incompatible with vintage amps.  They sound awefully bright and thin with both Marantz 2215B and Pioneer SX-737


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> It might be my imagination but my Marantz 2215B sounds warmer when it's turned out and gradually as it's left on longer it sounds like the treble gets brighter and more splashy.
> Do something need to be replaced or is it my imagination?
> 
> Secondly, are IEM's (very low impedance and very sensitive cans) like JH13pro incompatible with vintage amps.  They sound awefully bright and thin with both Marantz 2215B and Pioneer SX-737


 


  Never tried my JH with 2265B, I gues I will get it a try tomorrow.


----------



## moodyrn

I really like my jh13's with the kenwood I had. It was by far the best I've ever heard them. They sounded pretty good on the sx1010 I had also. I haven't tried them on my newly acquired marantz yet, but I will once I finish with my partial restoration. Are you using the -20db button. I find this is very important when using highly sensitive iems.


----------



## Meewoo

I tried sensitive headphones with vintage stuff, and found many generated hum ans lousy sound. I do believe you really need to clean the headphone port more thoroughly, since cleaning port sometimes eliminated hum. Hope someone find this useful!


----------



## subzer0

So how terrible is replacing a headphone jack?  I am beginning to suspect my headphone jack may not be so great.


----------



## sling5s

I have a filter button but no -20lb button on mine. 
  
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I really like my jh13's with the kenwood I had. It was by far the best I've ever heard them. They sounded pretty good on the sx1010 I had also. I haven't tried them on my newly acquired marantz yet, but I will once I finish with my partial restoration. Are you using the -20db button. I find this is very important when using highly sensitive iems.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> I have a filter button but no -20lb button on mine.


 

 Not a problem if you're not getting hiss or hum in your headphones and your volume control doesn't have to be turned way down to achieve a normal listening level.


----------



## moodyrn

Unfortunately all of the vintage gear don't have this. But you are right. It's a non issue if you are not getting his or hum from you headphone jack.


----------



## wualta

Maaaybe we should make an informal list of those sometimes-forgotten preamp-section features that make life easier for the vintage-gear headphone fanatic. Someone using speakers, for example, might never even think of using the -20dB switch, but it suddenly becomes important with headphones.


----------



## TheMarkRemains

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Maaaybe we should make an informal list of those sometimes-forgotten preamp-section features that make life easier for the vintage-gear headphone fanatic. Someone using speakers, for example, might never even think of using the -20dB switch, but it suddenly becomes important with headphones.


 


  absolutely ! especially some of these extreme hackers on here, don't want the uniformed to do something crazy and blow up headphones and/or go deaf !


----------



## Skylab

For headphone use, the -20dB muting is almost a requirement for the high-powered vintage receives both in terms of hiss and in terms of getting some play from the volume control.  My Pioneer SX-1250 and 1980 both use stepped attenuators, and so the muting is also important for the volume settings to be granular enough with headphones. The lack of the -20dB feature on my Marantz 2285 makes it of limited utility on some headphones.  Works fine still with the HE-6, but not as good a choice for high-efficiency, low impedance cans.


----------



## jc9394

Marantz should have a variable mute setting on the back.  At least my 2265b has it and it works great with IEM.


----------



## sluker

Skylab,
  Do you think the -20dn muting effects the quality of the sound (other than muting it by -20db)?
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> For headphone use, the -20dB muting is almost a requirement for the high-powered vintage receives both in terms of hiss and in terms of getting some play from the volume control.  My Pioneer SX-1250 and 1980 both use stepped attenuators, and so the muting is also important for the volume settings to be granular enough with headphones. The lack of the -20dB feature on my Marantz 2285 makes it of limited utility on some headphones.  Works fine still with the HE-6, but not as good a choice for high-efficiency, low impedance cans.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Marantz should have a variable mute setting on the back.  At least my 2265b has it and it works great with IEM.


 


  My 2325 has it as well, but it's entirely different than a -20db mute button. The variable muting pot on the back really is for permanent adjustments. You can't ideally switch back and forth(well you can, but it would be very bothersome). When I had both my kenwood and pioneer, the -20 was a must. I could easily engage it whenever I went from something like my he-6 to my jh13. That way, I had total flexibility to switch between hard to drive cans to highly sensitive cans/iems.
   
  But if you are only driving highly sensitive cans or iems, you could just set it and forget it. But if you have one of the low powered ones, and are driving speakers, you may have issues driving them with the gain set to low. I really do miss my -20db button. I was shocked to see my marantz didn't have it. I guess none of them do.


----------



## RexAeterna

moodyrn said:


> I really like my jh13's with the kenwood I had. It was by far the best I've ever heard them. They sounded pretty good on the sx1010 I had also. I haven't tried them on my newly acquired marantz yet, but I will once I finish with my partial restoration. Are you using the -20db button. I find this is very important when using highly sensitive iems.




 got away with using iem's? i can't even use my 600ohm sextetts lp off my yamaha without the -20 db muting button. i found it most useful for mt 240DF and planer magnetic headphones, and that's off the headphone jack. on speaker outputs no matter what headphone i use that -20db switch better be on or headphones and hearing will go bye-bye.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes, with the -20db button. There was a little hiss with the pioneer, but only very little. With the kenwood, they were dead quiet. In fact it was more quiet than the headphone out of 5.5g ipod video. They had just a little hiss with that. But like I said previously, with the kenwood, they were dead quiet, and sounded excellent.


----------



## claybum

As a result of lurking around this thread, I recently picked up this unit off craigslist.

   

   
  The Marantz drives my lcd2 and dx1000 very very well. I'm having a great time with it!!!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats, that's a great find!


----------



## claybum

Thanks, I look forward to getting some speakers for it in the future.


----------



## Skylab

@slurker - I have not ever noticed that it does, and it shouldn't.
   
  @claybum - very nice!


----------



## moodyrn

Marantz's definitely have a very unique sound. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing is in the eye of the beholder or should I say listener.


----------



## wotts

That is one sharp unit!

  
  Quote: 





claybum said:


> As a result of lurking around this thread, I recently picked up this unit off craigslist.
> 
> ~snip~
> 
> The Marantz drives my lcd2 and dx1000 very very well. I'm having a great time with it!!!!!


----------



## claybum

The Marantz definitely has my attention. My usual headphone rigs are a WA 6 maxxed or Schiit Lyr  driven by a Emotiva erc 1 cdp. My computer rig consists of a Headroom ultra desktop amp/dac with desktop power supply. The Marantz seems to drive my phones with more authority. The soundstage on my dx 1000 has really expanded and I hear details in the midrange I never heard before. Tons of bass presence also. The Headroom is probably more refined, but the Marantz really rocks hard. I hope to be happy with it for some time to come and look forward to hearing it with a better source.


----------



## sling5s

It's amazing how good these old vintage receivers sound as headphone amps, many times better or superior than many dedicated headphone amps (that are among the best). 
  
  Quote: 





claybum said:


> The Marantz definitely has my attention. My usual headphone rigs are a WA 6 maxxed or Schiit Lyr  driven by a Emotiva erc 1 cdp. My computer rig consists of a Headroom ultra desktop amp/dac with desktop power supply. The Marantz seems to drive my phones with more authority. The soundstage on my dx 1000 has really expanded and I hear details in the midrange I never heard before. Tons of bass presence also. The Headroom is probably more refined, but the Marantz really rocks hard. I hope to be happy with it for some time to come and look forward to hearing it with a better source.


----------



## claybum

It certainly has me thinking about the money I've spent on headphone gear. I purchased the Marantz for $450. The seller has been posting vintage gear on craigslist for a while. I almost went for a sx 950 a couple months ago. I believe he wanted $280 for that unit. He simply cleans the controls, puts in new lamps and a new power cord and charges a fair price.
  Quote: 





sling5s said:


> It's amazing how good these old vintage receivers sound as headphone amps, many times better or superior than many dedicated headphone amps (that are among the best).


----------



## Dissonant

Just snagged a deal for a little under $270 for a Marantz PM17 MKi in moderate comestic condition and fully working, in Champagne Gold. Not sure if I am paying fairly for it; can anyone advise me on the used price of this integrated on the market? Will post pictures after I collect it in the next couple of days.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





claybum said:


> As a result of lurking around this thread, I recently picked up this unit off craigslist.
> 
> The Marantz drives my lcd2 and dx1000 very very well. I'm having a great time with it!!!!!


 

 Congrats, very nice unit. Do you plan on sanding down the wood and re-staining it?
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Marantz's definitely have a very unique sound. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing is in the eye of the beholder or should I say listener.


 

 x2, but im stubborn and only want the black units 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *claybum* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It certainly has me thinking about the money I've spent on headphone gear. I purchased the Marantz for $450. The seller has been posting vintage gear on craigslist for a while. I almost went for a sx 950 a couple months ago. I believe he wanted $280 for that unit. He simply cleans the controls, puts in new lamps and a new power cord and charges a fair price.


 

 You did good, with the wood case you'll be find when/if you decide to sell.
   
  Quote: 





dissonant said:


> Just snagged a deal for a little under $270 for a Marantz PM17 MKi in moderate comestic condition and fully working, in Champagne Gold. Not sure if I am paying fairly for it; can anyone advise me on the used price of this integrated on the market? Will post pictures after I collect it in the next couple of days.


 

 Nice little unit! Im not sure what they go for, as there have been no sale of one on my side of da bay. The unit did retail for $1400! But at 60 watts, and the others going for around $500 with 70 watts, id expect in the $400 range, but im not sure.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





claybum said:


> As a result of lurking around this thread, I recently picked up this unit off craigslist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Nice, I always missed out on the higher model but I'm still very happy with the 2265B I got couple weeks ago.  Agreed on it driving the LCD-2 very well.  To be honest, it certainly the best amp I heard under a $1000 driving LCD-2 and HD800.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Nice, I always missed out on the higher model but I'm still very happy with the 2265B I got couple weeks ago.  Agreed on it driving the LCD-2 very well.  To be honest, it certainly the best amp I heard under a $1000 driving LCD-2 and HD800.


 


  Glad you are enjoying you 2265b. I bet any of the mid tier to high end 1970's Pioneer and Marantz receivers sound great.

  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Congrats, very nice unit. Do you plan on sanding down the wood and re-staining it?


 

 I think I will let it stay as is. There is definitely some wear and tear but I find it charming for now.


----------



## Skylab

Unless there are deep gouges I would not sand and restain - just get some 0000 steel wool, smooth things out a little, and then use Old English Scratch Remover.  That will usually make it look great.


----------



## claybum

Thanks for the tip Skylab!


----------



## RexAeterna

moodyrn said:


> Yes, with the -20db button. There was a little hiss with the pioneer, but only very little. With the kenwood, they were dead quiet. In fact it was more quiet than the headphone out of 5.5g ipod video. They had just a little hiss with that. But like I said previously, with the kenwood, they were dead quiet, and sounded excellent.




what kenwood? i have the kenwood kr-720 i use actually as a dedicated headamp off the speaker outputs. has amazing clean sound and very quiet background. very fast slew rate as well so no amount of detail is missed.


----------



## Wharfrat

@ claybum: sent you a PM about sanding and sealants...I felt had to cuz it was so off-thread. 
   
  @ Skylab: I agree the Marantz and Pioneer receivers sound different, though not to the extent I gather you perceived/stated....both are close in resolution, neutrality (the Marantz a bit more holistically real in terms of instrumental textures...if that makes any sense.  People call it "warmth", I gather), and boogie-factor.  But with the AKG 702 and AD2000, both pretty sensitive cans, the differences were noticeable (no, I did not use the -20 db mute so take that into consideration in assessing my hearing abilities or lack thereof!).  The Pioneer just had a bigger soundstage and more "air" between instruments, compared to the Marantz, the latter almost akin to listening in a small, smoky,dark jazz dive and having the notes sticking to my clothes, almost tangible.  If it was a power rock ballad playing, the Pioneer would make it sound like it was played in an arena and with the Marantz, in a theatre.
   
  I also noted voices more clearly on the Pioneer and a bit more in the mix on the Marantz.  I have since then put the Marantz in my speaker rig and the Dunlavys really are happy....no point in listening to the Pioneer and Marantz, side-by-side, as they sound alot alike than dissimilar.  the HK730 and the Pioneer, well that's a real change of pace twixt the two.  I like the much more smooth volume play on the Marantz and HK. Sometimes the volume difference between each attenuated level on the Pioneer makes it hard to zone in on an ideal sound level for many recordings, except for the Hi-rez or well miked ones.  Nils Lofgren's "Almost Acoustic" CD is one of those where the Pioneer really shines.  Lately, I have been paying more attention to the recording quality of source material now that my equipment quality is high enough to be taken out of the equation as a "negative" influence....it just is more transparent to the source compared to the two tube amps I have.  
   
  Have been eyeing the Fisher myself, but read somewhere that its output level is too low for an aging pair of ears as mine.  How would you
  Fisher owners compare the Fisher HP power output compared to the SX-1250? (I know Rob thinks its a notch or two below the 1250 in some respects, but not sure which)....i have heard Woo amps and haven't been as goosed as I was with the Lyr, if that helps you frame your response....
   
  @Moodryn: See that you have the new Marantz SA8004.  Its on my short list as I used to have a SA8001, which I loved and sold as part of my house sale a few years ago, 92" DLP projection home theatre set up with PSB T5s and all .  But the latest audiophile-grade Oppo BDP-95 is the same price and has far more features so it might snag my money outta my pocketses...
   
  @Ardegee: You mentioned having had a Scott to listen with...is it the same model 222 unit we talked about many pages ago?  What did you do to get it up to performance level?   Makes me wonder if I should send mine in for a restore by MapleTree....


----------



## Skylab

WharfRat I basically agree with what you are saying about Pioneer vs Marantz. With regard to Fisher, my KX-100 is very warm and tubey.  Works well with the HE-6, but not a good combo for cans like the LCD-2 or JVC DX-1000.


----------



## jc9394

What speakers is recommend for the Marantz?  I'm currently hook up my Revel to it but wants to move the Marantz to bedroom and looking for a bookshelf.  Not looking for really expensive one.  Anyone tried to connect the LCD-2 to the speaker post?  Any benefit of doing it?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> what kenwood? i have the kenwood kr-720 i use actually as a dedicated headamp off the speaker outputs. has amazing clean sound and very quiet background. very fast slew rate as well so no amount of detail is missed.


 
  KR-9600, I really miss it. It was just too big to use just as a headphone amp after I got rid of the speakers I was using it on. I looking into getting a 9100 to replace it until the marantz fell in my lap.

  
  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> @Moodryn: See that you have the new Marantz SA8004.  Its on my short list as I used to have a SA8001, which I loved and sold as part of my house sale a few years ago, 92" DLP projection home theatre set up with PSB T5s and all .  But the latest audiophile-grade Oppo BDP-95 is the same price and has far more features so it might snag my money outta my pocketses...


 

 I absolutely love it. It's one of the best investments I ever made. I directly compared it to another headfiers bryston 2000.00 dac(one of the best I've listened to), and we both agreed that it was 90% of what the bryston was. But he was using the halide bridge as a transport and I was only using an ipod. With sacd they were pretty much identical to my ears, maybe a little more air and extension with the marantz when compared to files on a computer played through the bryston. But strickly as a dac, it was close to the bryston, but of course the bryston still had the edge.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> WharfRat I basically agree with what you are saying about Pioneer vs Marantz. With regard to Fisher, my KX-100 is very warm and tubey.  Works well with the HE-6, but not a good combo for cans like the LCD-2 or JVC DX-1000.


 

 X2 to on the impressions of the marantz sound vs pioneer sound. I would say the kenwood is the sweet spot. The pioneer mates better with darker sounding, or lush sounding cans. The marantz sounds better with neutral or slightly bright sounding cans. They both still sounds excellent with anthing though. The kenwood is just slightly warm, so it mates well with pretty much everything. And unlike other warm amps or receivers, it doesn't the highs at the very top.  I had no problem with anything I plugged into it, and everything sounded excellent.
   
  As far as the fisher goes, it's both better than all of the vintage ss gear I've tried or owned and, not as good. Let me explain, the fisher like Skylab says is a very warm, very lush and romantic sounding tube amp. With cans that's already lush, it can be too much of a good thing, But with the right headphone and speaker pairing, the sound is beyond excellent, and down rite addictive. I modded my headphone out to be much more powerful than stock, and it can drive anything short of an he-6(use speaker taps for those). But like Skylab, I really like it with the he-6, and my T70s. Heck even my d7000. But the d7000 don't sound anything like stock. The cups are upgraded with lawton's sheoak cups, and I done partial diymarkl mods. So they now sound very neutral with just a touch of lushness, so not too lush for the fisher.


----------



## 5aces

sluker said:


> Do you find that using the 20 db mute takes away some of the fidelity? When Driving my HE-6's through the speaker taps of the AU-717 if I use the 20 db muting I think it slightly reduces the impact of the lows




Is Sansui AU 717 still giving you a perception of less bass impact when the mute switch is engaged? 

Most of these mute switches introduce a resistor into the circuit to get the volume down.

_Generally_,resistors shouldn't drift out of spec and will either pass current or not,you could take a look for your own satisfaction.

I know with some Sansui models you get a lot of volume early on the volume control,nice for speakers but not so much for headphones.

The mute switch will provide more flexibility of graduations on volume knob for some headphones.

Bass is a big part of modern music and most people need a specific amount to satisfy their sense.

For an experiment,dial back the bass on the tone control and kick in the loudness contour-see if you like that on -20db,one never knows it may be the in between setting you are seeking...

None of my current Sansui amps has the loudness switch to try but the CA preamplifier has a 150-300-600 Hz selector to augment dialing in the bass.


----------



## sluker

Thanks,
  I will play around with the loudness.
  By the way, with the HE-6's I am getting the sense that the HP out gives better soundstage than the speaker taps. Not so much bigger but better instrument placement and separation. Without the -20db I am comfortable at -36 with the HP out but only -47db with the speaker taps. Could this be the cause of the difference?
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> Is Sansui AU 717 still giving you a perception of less bass impact when the mute switch is engaged?
> Most of these mute switches introduce a resistor into the circuit to get the volume down.
> _Generally_,resistors shouldn't drift out of spec and will either pass current or not,you could take a look for your own satisfaction.
> I know with some Sansui models you get a lot of volume early on the volume control,nice for speakers but not so much for headphones.
> ...


----------



## 5aces

I'll send you a .pdf of the Sansui AU 517/717 service manual.

I don't know what kind of box you are using as a headphone tap on the speakers.

Passive using resistors,different values on the resistors (if the volume is too high you _increase_ the value of the resistor) you can confirm that for yourself.

Will vary the volume but shouldn't change the signal qualities.


----------



## sluker

Not using any "box" its going direct
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that may be the issue.


----------



## 5aces

I have seen these devices scattered about the site to get headphones hooked up to speaker amplifiers.

1)The "Headphone Adaptor" by Head-Direct for some of the HE series of phones: 

2)ART HeadTap:

3)ROLLS PM52 Headphone Tap:


The latter two are passive,using resistors and I believe even allow IEM's to be tapped into stage speakers.

You would have to make a custom 1/4 inch stereo jack cable to plug into the device and splice into the speaker outputs,unless you are using pro audio gear. 

The Head-Direct HE-Adapter is not for any high or average efficiency headphones, such as HE-300 and HE-500 says the website,same concept though and wires straight up to the speaker terminals,using the front panel amplifier volume control.


----------



## jc9394

Interesting, wonder if I can use it with LCD-2.


----------



## musicman59

As long as you are under 100 watts per channel into 8 ohms you don't need the box. The LCD-3 max inout is 15 watts at 50 ohms. 100 watts at 8 ohms are about 16 watts at 50 ohms so if you amplifier is under 100 let's say 80 you are fine without the box. I personally tried the LCD-2 with a 50 watts per channel class A amp and they sounded the best I have heard them and I am driving my HE-6 wit the same amplifier.


----------



## Wharfrat

skylab said:


> WharfRat I basically agree with what you are saying about Pioneer vs Marantz. With regard to Fisher, my KX-100 is very warm and tubey.  Works well with the HE-6, but not a good combo for cans like the LCD-2 or JVC DX-1000.


 
  Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  


> X2 to on the impressions of the marantz sound vs pioneer sound. I would say the kenwood is the sweet spot. The pioneer mates better with darker sounding, or lush sounding cans. The marantz sounds better with neutral or slightly bright sounding cans. They both still sounds excellent with anthing though. The kenwood is just slightly warm, so it mates well with pretty much everything. And unlike other warm amps or receivers, it doesn't the highs at the very top.  I had no problem with anything I plugged into it, and everything sounded excellent.
> 
> As far as the fisher goes, it's both better than all of the vintage ss gear I've tried or owned and, not as good. Let me explain, the fisher like Skylab says is a very warm, very lush and romantic sounding tube amp. With cans that's already lush, it can be too much of a good thing, But with the right headphone and speaker pairing, the sound is beyond excellent, and down rite addictive. I modded my headphone out to be much more powerful than stock, and it can drive anything short of an he-6(use speaker taps for those). But like Skylab, I really like it with the he-6, and my T70s. Heck even my d7000. But the d7000 don't sound anything like stock. The cups are upgraded with lawton's sheoak cups, and I done partial diymarkl mods. So they now sound very neutral with just a touch of lushness, so not too lush for the fisher.


 


 Guys! Thanks for your comments on the Fisher....I have heard the HE-6 out of a Eddie Currrent Balancing Act amp and Ayon Skylla DAC and was blown away by the combo, but the BA is a higher quality parts tube design.   So its a bit of a relief to learn that both of you found the Fisher to have enough power to drive the HE-6.  Bummer to hear the LCD-2 did not fare so well in your estimation because I wanted the LCD unit particularly for the Pioneer.  Can't afford another TOTL can like the HE-6 just to dig the vintage Fisher sound.... it also looks like it won't be too good of a pairing with the AD2000 either.  I do have a D7000 which is much more sensitive relative to the HE-6, so a Fisher should goose it pretty good.  Was up to 2 am on a work night yesterday looking for vintage tube integrateds or pre amps that could drive today's cans and noted a few Fisher KX models have headphone outputs...gonna figure out the differences between the models before I put my nose to the Net paths that will certianly lead to E-Bay and CL finds.
   
  This got me to wondering if vintage 70' Audio Research tube amps had headphone jacks....(ARC is too expensive anyways, but William Zane Johnson was such a leading designer of high quality tube and ss products back then along with Saul Marantz, Sid Harman, Jim Bongiorno, to name a few of the more well known ones, so my interest is piqued more than just a tad).  I don't expect an answer from anybody since I got very little response to my previous posts about the McIntoshs.  But curiousity kills this cat...


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





5aces said:


> I have seen these devices scattered about the site to get headphones hooked up to speaker amplifiers.
> 1)The "Headphone Adaptor" by Head-Direct for some of the HE series of phones:
> 
> 2)ART HeadTap:
> ...


 

 Thanks so much!  I was trying to figure outhow to use the speaker tap adapter cable with its freakishly hard to match female 4 pin XLR jack....as I have no headphones with male 4 pin XLR connectors and further more dreaded the thought of modding a tube amp with DIY&FU resistor soldering.
   
  This brings to mind a question...do those tap adapters work only with SS units?  I recall something about frying output transformers for tube units if not properly impedance matched....and if not, prophylatic adjustments would need to be made for tube units to prevent that.


----------



## RexAeterna

moodyrn said:


> KR-9600, I really miss it. It was just too big to use just as a headphone amp after I got rid of the speakers I was using it on. I looking into getting a 9100 to replace it until the marantz fell in my lap.





i always wanted to try the big kenwoods. i like kenwood. they don't get enough praise for most of their line-up. their sigma power amps are freakin amazing but i see no praise for them. if you need a small amp for headphone duty i defiantly recommend the kenwood kr-720. you can get them so cheap it's worth a try. once you get the dc offset and bias set back to factory spec the amp will probably be one of cleanest amps you'll get. very under-rated.

i don't see much praise around here as well for yamaha but only their CR series. in the 80's with their ''black-faced/case'' gear is where it's at. that's where yamaha hit their pinnacle and become monsters in their power amp line-up. most people ignore them cause they're not silver or pretty looking. there is lot of black 80's gear that will wipe the floor on some of the 70's stuff. while companies like marantz sold out in the late 70's and pioneer i believe as well, yamaha,kenwood and even sansui still tried pushing the envelop with toroidal power transformers and some high-end power amps had very large dual- power transformers for the positive and negative outputs and very large caps cause low-impedance driving was the thing during the mid to late 80's. most of the power amps at that time had no issues handling 2ohm nominal speaker loads.

yamaha even only one who made a 80lb 8 channel discrete HT reciever with dual- power transformers and can drive 300wpc@2ohm's! but after that last attempt yamaha went downhill cause their current stereo amps are not very good. they look pretty and have balanced outputs but still not near the same level as their old power amps. i'm still surprised though they atleast tried in the HT part but wasn't very popular cause after their MX-XXX power amps they seem to just lose their status since they didn't have the same marketing level as pioneer and marantz still had.


----------



## Skylab

I have always wanted to try a high end vintage Kenwood as well.  Just haven't found one locally yet.


----------



## BmWr75

Rob,
   
  I'm listening right now to 24/96 files via a Squeezebox Touch feeding a Kenwood KR-9050 driving Ohm Walsh Two speakers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Happy Holidays!!
  Scott


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah kenwoods are very under-rated. I kinda hated selling mine, I'm still on the look out for a good condition 9100 though. My only negative about the 9600 was it uses much higher value resistors for the headphone out than the pioneers do. I could drive the he-6 effortlessly through the headphone out. I couldn't go past 10:00, and 8:30 to 9:00 was a very comfortable listening level. The kenwood could get them to a decent volume, but they were under damped and didn't sound anything like from the speaker taps. But on the other hand, that made it possible the drive iems, and it still had plenty of power for anything other than an he-6.
   
  But as much as I liked the pioneer, the kenwood just sounded better. But that thing was almost too big to even sit on top of my component rack. I knew it was huge but after getting the 2325, I was floored at how much smaller it was than the kenwood. The kenwood really makes it look tiny. It's even small compared to sx1010 I had. That's really a good thing since I could even put this on my night stand next to my bed. It's small enough to only use as a headphone amp. But it is however just as heavy as the pioneer was, well almost as heavy weighing in at 49.7(out of the case) pounds. So even-though it's small compared to other totl receivers I've had, there's still a lot in there. The transformer is just as big as the one in the kenwood!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Rob,
> 
> I'm listening right now to 24/96 files via a Squeezebox Touch feeding a Kenwood KR-9050 driving Ohm Walsh Two speakers.
> 
> ...


 

 This is my first time to see such a nice KR-9050!! Wow!!
   
  I have little brother KR-8050, it has nice sweet Kenny sound but a very fast pace. Do you find it a little quick?
   
  I have (had) Kenny Kr-9400, Kr-8050, Ka-7300 and Ka-7100, among them, I prefer 7300, followed by 9400.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i don't see much praise around here as well for yamaha but only their CR series. in the 80's with their ''black-faced/case'' gear is where it's at. that's where yamaha hit their pinnacle and become monsters in their power amp line-up. most people ignore them cause they're not silver or pretty looking. there is lot of black 80's gear that will wipe the floor on some of the 70's stuff. while companies like marantz sold out in the late 70's and pioneer i believe as well, yamaha,kenwood and even sansui still tried pushing the envelop with toroidal power transformers and some high-end power amps had very large dual- power transformers for the positive and negative outputs and very large caps cause low-impedance driving was the thing during the mid to late 80's. most of the power amps at that time had no issues handling 2ohm nominal speaker loads.


 

 If we span our search to middle 80's, then I think there are many small players made good stuff. (Adcom, Nakamichi, Technics, JVC and American startup companies)
  It's really hard to pick out good stuff from more brands in 80's. And more sleepers are still under radar.
   
  And I think I am the only person in this thread to push 70's Rotel stuff.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


meewoo said:


> If we span our search to middle 80's, then I think there are many small players made good stuff. (Adcom, Nakamichi, Technics, JVC and American startup companies)
> It's really hard to pick out good stuff from more brands in 80's. And more sleepers are still under radar.
> 
> And I think I am the only person in this thread to push 70's Rotel stuff.


 

 Early Rotel products, like early NAD, seem thin on the ground in the States but better-represented in Europe and Japan. That's a deal-breaker for a lot of participants here, since shipping overseas makes any vintage gear except the most esoteric stuff cost more than the quality is worth. Especially since old equipment is massive, relative to its complexity and power output. (It's not just large transformers, either. The baseplate of my Heathkit receiver is 1/8" steel; when I rescued it from the pallet that was going to haul it off to recycling, the baseplate was dented and the cassette deck that dented it had been crushed.)


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> This is my first time to see such a nice KR-9050!! Wow!!
> 
> I have little brother KR-8050, it has nice sweet Kenny sound but a very fast pace. Do you find it a little quick?


 

 Not sure what "quick" sounds like.  So, can't comment.  I listen to it mainly through speakers right now.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have always wanted to try a high end vintage Kenwood as well.  Just haven't found one locally yet.


 

 IMO they aren't as good as Pioneer.
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Yeah kenwoods are very under-rated. I kinda hated selling mine, I'm still on the look out for a good condition 9100 though. My only negative about the 9600 was it uses much higher value resistors for the headphone out than the pioneers do. I could drive the he-6 effortlessly through the headphone out. I couldn't go past 10:00, and 8:30 to 9:00 was a very comfortable listening level. The kenwood could get them to a decent volume, but they were under damped and didn't sound anything like from the speaker taps. But on the other hand, that made it possible the drive iems, and it still had plenty of power for anything other than an he-6.
> 
> But as much as I liked the pioneer, the kenwood just sounded better. But that thing was almost too big to even sit on top of my component rack. I knew it was huge but after getting the 2325, I was floored at how much smaller it was than the kenwood. The kenwood really makes it look tiny. It's even small compared to sx1010 I had. That's really a good thing since I could even put this on my night stand next to my bed. It's small enough to only use as a headphone amp. But it is however just as heavy as the pioneer was, well almost as heavy weighing in at 49.7(out of the case) pounds. So even-though it's small compared to other totl receivers I've had, there's still a lot in there. The transformer is just as big as the one in the kenwood!


 

 The Kenwoods has alot of empty to them, as the Marantz's and Pioneers are company with every inch of space filled up with electrical components. Maybe it was because i had the KR-9000GX and such receivers such at the 9600 were probably better as far as compact weight goes.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Not sure what "quick" sounds like.  So, can't comment.  I listen to it mainly through speakers right now.


 

 Sorry, I don't know how to describe the sound. It has "high speed DC stereo" moniker on the face, so I use "quick". Someone in AK describe the difference between KR-9050 and Sansui 8080, he said 9050 sounds as in the same room with music and 8080 sounds as next room with music. I totally agree what he said. Should I use "forward" or something to describe it? My 8050 really doesn't have the "layback" or "dark" sound like 9400 and my KAs.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote:Originally Posted by *cifani090* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  

 IMO they aren't as good as Pioneer.
   

 The Kenwoods has alot of empty to them, as the Marantz's and Pioneers are company with every inch of space filled up with electrical components. Maybe it was because i had the KR-9000GX and such receivers such at the 9600 were probably better as far as compact weight goes.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Disagree on both accounts. I can't speak for the kenwood you had, but the 9600 weighs in excess of 60lbs and every single inch was full. Actually the most impressive internals I've ever seen. It's actually two different cases. The front part is the preamp/tuner, and the back part is the power amp. There a thick steel plate that separates the two. But they really are two different cases which is probably why it's so huge. It wasn't just a big receiver that had wasted space. It's just as full as my 2325.
   
  I could see someone prefering the pioneer sound(it really depends on preference). But the pioneer didn't mate as good with some cans as it did with others. The pioneer was a little analytical with my he-6, and a little too bright for my jh13. I thought it sounded superb the the stock d7000 I had and sounded even better when I tried the lcd 2's with it. But neutral to bright headphones wasn't the best pairing. Which is why I like the kenwood more. It's equally as good with neutral to bright sounding cans as it is with warm, lush sounding cans.
   
  Technically, the two receivers were on the same playing field with the pioneer having a little wider sound stage( on of the best I've ever heard when it comes to sound stage width), but the kenwood had a deeper sound stage. Both are excellent receivers. But if I had an assortment of cans with different flavors, I would have to have the pioneer to go with one flavor and the marantz to go with another. The kenwood(kr-9600) would go with with just about anything. And with it, you wouldn't have different receivers with different flavors to go with different cans. It's sound signature would go with anything.


----------



## 5aces

wharfrat said:


> This brings to mind a question...do those tap adapters work only with SS units?  I recall something about frying output transformers for tube units if not properly impedance matched




Guitar players are known for their love of natural overdriven tones on a tube amp.
Power tubes driven hard by cranking the volume up in lieu of using effect pedals.

They also use attenuators to reduce the amplifiers power to a safe level,below the speakers power rating.
The less common form of passive attenuator incorporates a "step down" transformer to intentionally provide an impedance mismatch.
While this works to reduce the amplifiers output power, possible Output Transformer damage occurs if the technique is taken too far.
Perhaps this is what you are referring to.

Stress on the tubes would come from dialing up a strong amp all the way and running the attenuator at a whisper.
Some vintage amps have output transformers that were not designed for the amp to be fully turned up and played for an extended period of time.
Do you normally play your amplifier flat out into a speaker(or headphones) for an extended period of time without any issues?
Then running your amp flat out through a properly designed attenuator will probably not add any additional stress to your amplifier.

Tube amps and attenuators are a musicians best friend at times.
I'd like to see the different types of patch cords people are using to connect headphones to speaker amplifiers.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I almost bought a 9600, and from the pictures i looked at, yes it did look alot different from the KR-9000GX i had, and the 9600 did look full like say my SX-1250.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Technically, the two receivers were on the same playing field with the pioneer having a little wider sound stage( on of the best I've ever heard when it comes to sound stage width), but the kenwood had a deeper sound stage.


 

 x2.
   
  To me, Luxman has best spacious sound stage. Headphone may not display the depth as speakers, but the difference is huge in speakers.


----------



## sling5s

I saw a Sansui-G3000 at thrift store. How do they compare to marantz and pioneer? How do they sound?


----------



## davo50

Quote: 





> As far as the fisher goes, it's both better than all of the vintage ss gear I've tried or owned and, not as good. Let me explain, the fisher like Skylab says is a very warm, very lush and romantic sounding tube amp. With cans that's already lush, it can be too much of a good thing, But with the right headphone and speaker pairing, the sound is beyond excellent, and down rite addictive. I modded my headphone out to be much more powerful than stock, and it can drive anything short of an he-6(use speaker taps for those). But like Skylab, I really like it with the he-6, and my T70s. Heck even my d7000. But the d7000 don't sound anything like stock. The cups are upgraded with lawton's sheoak cups, and I done partial diymarkl mods. So they now sound very neutral with just a touch of lushness, so not too lush for the fisher.


 

 The Fisher is also very good with the HD800.  And I agree - not so good with the Audeze house sound.


----------



## johto

Here's my contribution:
   
  I got this *Pioneer Amp (SA-610)* for free some years ago. 
  Some pots were little noisy, because it was not been used in years, but after cleaning and using it, its been working 100%
   
  They sure dont make amps today like they did back in the day (excluding high end amps).
  This amp outputs "only" about 50 wattages, but these wattages are no "funny" wattages 
  No need to adjust the volume past 9 clock in normal use.

   

_Pictures taken with Iphone 4s _


----------



## wje

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> I saw a Sansui-G3000 at thrift store. How do they compare to marantz and pioneer? How do they sound?


 

 Sansui (IMO) has a great sound.  However, when talking about the G-3000, it might be a bit light of features and possibly sound quality when compared to the others in the "G" series further up the chain.  I
  forget where people have mentioned quite a significant bump - possibly, the G-6000 and higher.  About 6 years back, I had 3 Sansui receivers in my collection, but had to sell them for a move that we were going through.
   
  I believe the three I had were the G-3000, G-6000 and G-7000.  In the picture, the G-3000 is in the middle of the stack - as you can see it has a smaller footprint.  The bottom one, the G-6000, I believe was one that I ended up applying new veneer to.  Sadly, it was damaged by FedEx and has gone off into the receiver after life.  The others were sold, but when I had them I did register the serial numbers on AudioKarma.  At the moment, I have a G-5700, which is pretty impressive. It's newer than the the G-3000, etc. - previous series.  Also, I have the 881, which was the flagship before the "G" series came about.


----------



## flurry

Has anyone ever heard of the Fisher CA 229 integrated amplifier? I have one lying around that I may hook my k240s up to tonight.


----------



## sling5s

I purchased it just to see how the sound was.  It's sounds pretty good.  To me it's very clear and airy sounding with the Magnums.  I haven't spent enough time to compare to my Marnatz and Pioneer but it's not a bad sounding receiver. It's definitely not as warm as the Marantz nor punchy in the bass as the Pioneer. Will see. 
  
  Quote: 





wje said:


> Sansui (IMO) has a great sound.  However, when talking about the G-3000, it might be a bit light of features and possibly sound quality when compared to the others in the "G" series further up the chain.  I
> forget where people have mentioned quite a significant bump - possibly, the G-6000 and higher.  About 6 years back, I had 3 Sansui receivers in my collection, but had to sell them for a move that we were going through.
> 
> I believe the three I had were the G-3000, G-6000 and G-7000.  In the picture, the G-3000 is in the middle of the stack - as you can see it has a smaller footprint.  The bottom one, the G-6000, I believe was one that I ended up applying new veneer to.  Sadly, it was damaged by FedEx and has gone off into the receiver after life.  The others were sold, but when I had them I did register the serial numbers on AudioKarma.  At the moment, I have a G-5700, which is pretty impressive. It's newer than the the G-3000, etc. - previous series.  Also, I have the 881, which was the flagship before the "G" series came about.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> I saw a Sansui-G3000 at thrift store. How do they compare to marantz and pioneer? How do they sound?


 

 Thank gosh you purchased it! I would of ran and grabbed it. Anything Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui,etc; and if its at a thrift ship, grab it!


----------



## sling5s

I have recently gone back to vintage receivers (Marantz 2215B, Pioneer SX-737, Sansui G-3000, all low end models recently acquired from my local thrift store) from dedicated headphone amps.  Particularly because I I have come to enjoy Grados, or more accurately the  Symphones Magnum, an ultimate Grado modded headphone by Rhydon.  The reason I preferred the vintage receivers because they tended to warm up the Grado/Magnums while at the same time giving it more bass and soundstage (without sacrificing details to my ears) than dedicated headphone amplifiers.
  But I just read an article/thread that explained that vintage receivers were more designed for high impedance headphones and not low impedance headphones.  And therefore the sound of my Grado/Magnums that I'm experiencing as pleasant actually comes from impedance mismatch which results in warming up and increasing the bass of low impedance headphones.  So if this is true, this leaves me at a quandary.  So do I then ged rid of all my vintage receivers because what I'm finding pleasant is really poor impedance matching? Hm....
   
  Anyone using these vintage receivers primarily with low impedance headphones (Denons, Grados, ATH's) and are preferring them to dedicated headphone amplifiers? 
   
  Edit: I wonder if impedance resistance adaptors will help.


----------



## jc9394

Anyone knows how Thorens TD165 pair with Marantz or Sansui?  Wants go back to spinning and I have some stored in storage.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## jc9394

Bring to ups store and have them pack it.  
   
  I shipped a receiver before without original box.  Plastic bagged the receiver, filled the bottom of th box two inches of peanuts and make sure at least two inches of peanuts all around.  Ootte box, 1 inches of peanuts all around.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> what is the best way to ship one of the big receivers?   FedEx OK or is there a special way to ship them?


 

 My Harmon-Kardon was shipped across the US, from south to north, in a large box containing foam peanuts containing a smaller box that had the amp.
   
  Upside: The peanuts did not get into the amp.
  Downside: Many of the packing peanuts were crushed to powder. I was genuinely afraid the amp was going to be DOA. If it had faced more handling by shippers than it did, I suspect it would have been.
   
  Large, heavy items should be packed in firmer, more rigid packaging. If you have any crates for old-fashioned full-size desktop computers from the 90s, you might be able to repurpose one of those or at least use it as guidance while you make your own. Swaddling it in bubble wrap sounds like a good idea, but those bubbles will only cushion from severe blows once before they pop. (some of the larger-bubble wrap is pretty tough and a few layers of it might be okay; I don't really know.)
   
  If you're going to DIY, check how old CRT monitors or full-size computers are shipped. If you're lucky you might even find an old desktop computer box that can fit a receiver, with a little foam-cutting or stuffing.
   
  A local shipping store (UPS Store or similar) will package your item on your behalf. The packaging and shipping insurance won't be cheap but this way you have experienced people doing the boxing and coverage on it.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Bring to ups store and have them pack it.
> 
> I shipped a receiver before without original box.  Plastic bagged the receiver, filled the bottom of th box two inches of peanuts and make sure at least two inches of peanuts all around.  Ootte box, 1 inches of peanuts all around.


 
   
   
   
   
  Agreed. That the best way to ship anything of heft. It's also cheaper. I sold a kenwood 9600 for parts once. I spent almost an hour packing it. It cost me 76.00 to ship it. The mint one I recently sold only cost 66.00. But all I did was dropped it off at the ups store and let them do all of the packaging. They only charge you for the packaging materials and nothing for the labor. Lately that's the only way I do it when I ship heavy items.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes double boxing helps some, but not a substitute for using a lot of foam(not just peanuts). I've used fedex a few times in the past. Haven't had a good experience with them yet. So, nothing good to say about them.


----------



## WarriorAnt

.


----------



## dogwan

FWIW, I have had horrid experiences letting the UPS store employees do the packing. Bear in mind that they are franchises and UPS as an entity does not take responsibility for the packing done by the staff of the stores.
   
  None of the staff I have dealt with had any clue about how to adequately protect audio gear. Have even gotten into verbal "disagreements" with them while watching them do the packing. When I told them (at my local UPS store) what the piece needed the response was "sir, we are professional packers". Now that may make me sound like a know it all busy body, but in reality I'm very easy going. I just have shipped and received enough audio gear that I think I know what will survive the trip.
   
http://youtu.be/tB686oOET4k
   
  I feel obligated to chime in on this one. If you want the receiver to make it do the packing yourself. It will save yourself a lot of headaches down the road. Best strategy is to avoid peanuts, they shift too much and the corners of that nice silver face will end up poking out the sides of the box. My advise is to use bubble wrap and double box. You want the item to be securely wrapped so that it is essentially "suspended" in a shock proof cocoon. Never had a buyer complain about damage. Even had my almost irreplacable Acoustat servo amps survive a round trip to the one of the last people that service them.
   
  -Dogwan


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> FWIW, I have had horrid experiences letting the UPS store employees do the packing. Bear in mind that they are franchises and UPS as an entity does not take responsibility for the packing done by the staff of the stores.
> 
> None of the staff I have dealt with had any clue about how to adequately protect audio gear. Have even gotten into verbal "disagreements" with them while watching them do the packing. When I told them (at my local UPS store) what the piece needed the response was "sir, we are professional packers". Now that may make me sound like a know it all busy body, but in reality I'm very easy going. I just have shipped and received enough audio gear that I think I know what will survive the trip.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I'm going to have to double box it up myself.  Its the only way I can trust that it will get to where it is going OK.  I'm not selling the unit but I want it to get where its going in one piece.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Anyone knows how Thorens TD165 pair with Marantz or Sansui?  Wants go back to spinning and I have some stored in storage.


 


  Not well at all........you should let me take it off your hands.


----------



## Dissonant

Just went to a vintage hi-fi shop my dad used to frequent. I can see why he doesn't go to that shop anymore. They wanted the equivalent of $900 for a Model 2250 in (barely) 7/10 condition, and the same price for a Model 3250 with matching poweramp, in 6/10 condition. Ridiculous, considering I can get more modern mid-fi offerings from Parasound, Exposure, NAD, and even Marantz themselves for much, much lower, especially used, amongst other brands.
   
  However, I am quite happy with the PM17 MK1 I got for $270 though. In solid 8/10 condition too! Little scuffs and discolouration to the glorious champagne gold (which is, by the way, very subtle by design - do not believe the PR shots!) upon close scrutinization, and it's not quite vintage, but a good catch if there ever was one, and it sounds sweet. Now, to acquire a cheap DAC like a HRT Streamer II, because there is no way in hell my generic supermarket CD/DVD player can play the stuff I burn. Oh, and the fact that the sado-masochist in me is being inveigled by the prospect of blasting saccharine J-Pop/Anisong over my burgeoning hi-fi rig.


----------



## Skylab

Double boxing is very important IMHO.  Peanuts are OK between the inner and outer box, but you cannot use just peanuts in the inner box around the item itself.  The large bubble pack is actually much better, but you still need a lot of it.  The best is actually to wrap the item in bubble pack, four layers at least, and then put two inches of styrofoam around it.  That's the inner box.  And then a second box, which can have peanuts between it and the inner box, as long as there are enough of them.
   
  The most critical thing is everything must be packedso nothing can move.  If it can't move, and the packing is sufficient, it won't break.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> FWIW, I have had horrid experiences letting the UPS store employees do the packing. Bear in mind that they are franchises and UPS as an entity does not take responsibility for the packing done by the staff of the stores.
> 
> None of the staff I have dealt with had any clue about how to adequately protect audio gear. Have even gotten into verbal "disagreements" with them while watching them do the packing. When I told them (at my local UPS store) what the piece needed the response was "sir, we are professional packers". Now that may make me sound like a know it all busy body, but in reality I'm very easy going. I just have shipped and received enough audio gear that I think I know what will survive the trip.
> 
> ...


 

 That's a good point, and since they are franchises, all of them are different. Lucky for me, the one close to me is exceptional. I've never even had any problems with insurance claims, and the person who does the packaging here is actually the store manager. And he goes all out when it comes to packaging stuff, and I've gotten comments from buyers on how well everything is always packaged. So I guess it's best to see how they package things first because all of them can be different.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Not well at all........you should let me take it off your hands.


 

 Will let know once I got it, was thinking getting a Rega but looks like vintage table match better with vintage receiver.


----------



## RexAeterna

got my Yamaha R-9 receiver back yesterday, since it had to get repaired. had all outputs,diodes,ect even front panel wiring was re-done. Bias and dc offset set back to factory spec. Tech told me the amp section is similar to the M-80 power amp on how it's designed he use to have and worked on. i noticed noise floor is much better and dead quiet even with my k601's off the headphone jack but due to the power this thing has i have no volume control whatsoever without the -20 muting switch. even with my 600ohm sextetts i have to use -20 db muting switch. i hooked up my sextetts though after some time to the speaker outputs via 4-pin XLR to bare wire and sounds great. background dead quiet, more then enough volume headroom even if i have to have the -20db muting switch at all times.

Tech measured the distortion on it and everything else and says it's really low and fantastic that there is no need to run it in class A, so i haven't ran it in class A yet but will test it later on my speakers since the benefits of using class A is mainly to draw more current at once since all transistors are switched on even at idle. last time i had it before i went to get it repaired i found class A only useful for driving speakers under 4ohms. at 2ohm loads it ran cool as ice in class A but anything higher then 4ohms even when pushing the speakers it'll run hot cause in Class A it's not using up the given extra current and dissipating it as heat. there is no thermal runaway when driving lower then 4ohms nominal on it from experience.


----------



## 5aces

warriorant said:


> Well Im thinking foam it up and put it in one box, then foam up that box and into the second box.




Nothing worse than vintage gear damaged simply by poor packaging.Using these techniques should bulletproof your stereo eqipment:

  

  

   

1) *Double walled box* 
2) *Line box with egg carton foam(or thick straight foam) leaving 4" between walls of box* 
3) *Thick straight foam on bottom of box*
4) *Wrap item in painters plastic or bubble wrap if really heavy(foam can mar a surface with fine scuffs) *
5) *Place foam padding around item in box to make it tight *
6) *Cover top with foam*
7) *Use good quality packing tape with a tape dispenser.Tapes seams first,top and bottom (blue arrows).Overlap each seam with tape on each side to triple seal the seams.(red arrows)*
8)* Mark box with TOP and FRAGILE stickers/lettering *

Don't let your pieces go on the Packing Wall of Shame.
ref.cdkands/packing1


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Nothing worse than vintage gear damaged simply by poor packaging.Using these techniques should bulletproof your stereo eqipment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A thousand thanks for the photos and the effort!   I'm going out now to hunt for all the materials.


----------



## 5aces

Moving companies and mattress manufacturers(foam cuttoffs) will have all you need.
Overseas freight forwarders have the crate building skills/materials/information for large speaker/amplifier shipments.
That photo with the U-Haul electronic boxes was the uber heavy Yamaha C-1 & B-1,shipped all the way from Winnipeg,Manitoba to Brampton,Ontario via FedEx.
Lots of bubble wrap,both directions and taped up before being placed inside the foam packing ensured a safe ride.
He also used foam peanuts to fill in any voids left after using the straight foam to pack it tight! 
All those switches on the C-1 preamplifier make it look like jet airplane and yet not one them was broken in transit.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> Anyone using these vintage receivers primarily with low impedance headphones (Denons, Grados, ATH's) and are preferring them to dedicated headphone amplifiers?
> 
> Edit: I wonder if impedance resistance adaptors will help.


 

 Hi there,
  An impedance adaptor will not do what you are looking for: turn a high output impedance into a low output impedance.
  If you are an electronic handyman you can open the receiver and replace the headphone jack resistors with a lower value.................like say 5 ohms.
   
  BTW,
  Any love out there for the Yamaha CR-2020?
  My mother has my old CR-2020 but doesn't use it anymore..................hmmm, maybe I should borrow it and give it a try?


----------



## RexAeterna

chris j said:


> Hi there,
> An impedance adaptor will not do what you are looking for: turn a high output impedance into a low output impedance.
> If you are an electronic handyman you can open the receiver and replace the headphone jack resistors with a lower value.................like say 5 ohms.
> 
> ...




these receivers will work with low impedance headphones pretty well since they're all discrete units. no op-amps or tubes. the power transformer will help match the impedance of the given input impedance by decreasing the voltages across the resistors to match the voltage needed by the headphone. i just find using high sensitive earbuds/iems is not recommended really.

i heard lot about CR series of yamaha and is highly praised receivers. thing is CR series did not have Class A power amp sections like their integrated brothers. they were strictly class A/B but i did believe their bigger CR series had low impedance speaker driving capability as well if that matters to you. that's why all yamaha famous speakers and studio monitors were at least 4ohms nominal to run specifically off their amps. only class A yamaha receiver is the 1985 flagship R-9 since it used the MX-XX power amp section and can drive up to 30w into 8ohms in class A with zero distortion. has no issues driving 2ohm loads so if running planer speakers or electrostatic speakers with lower then 4ohm nominal they did very well driving them without getting hot and blowing up like other amps. you should defiantly try getting it back and hook her up with another receiver. she shouldn't care as long she has sound.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> these receivers will work with low impedance headphones pretty well since they're all discrete units. no op-amps or tubes. the power transformer will help match the impedance of the given input impedance by decreasing the voltages across the resistors to match the voltage needed by the headphone. i just find using high sensitive earbuds/iems is not recommended really.
> i heard lot about CR series of yamaha and is highly praised receivers. thing is CR series did not have Class A power amp sections like their integrated brothers. they were strictly class A/B but i did believe their bigger CR series had low impedance speaker driving capability as well if that matters to you. that's why all yamaha famous speakers and studio monitors were at least 4ohms nominal to run specifically off their amps. only class A yamaha receiver is the 1985 flagship R-9 since it used the MX-XX power amp section and can drive up to 30w into 8ohms in class A with zero distortion. has no issues driving 2ohm loads so if running planer speakers or electrostatic speakers with lower then 4ohm nominal they did very well driving them without getting hot and blowing up like other amps. you should defiantly try getting it back and hook her up with another receiver. she shouldn't care as long she has sound.


 


 Hi,
  The power transformer is for the power supply.
  It has nothing to do with matching the impedance of the headphones to the headphone jack.
  It's a high impedance headphone jack, the only way to get around it is to change the resistors in the headphone output.
   
  I seem to remember that the CR-2020 had a nice relaxing, full sound, but it was not very dynamic?
  I don't remember the amp having very tight bass either?
  I remember the headphone jack had no trouble driving a pair of 2,000 Sennheisers my brother used to use back in the early 80's.
  I also remember it had a nice sounding tuner section?
  To be honest I haven't heard it cranked out at any reasonable volume in maybe 10-15 years and I haven't plugged headphones in it for maybe 20 years.
   
  Man, that R-9 sounds like a very nice piece!


----------



## RexAeterna

i know it's the power supply. it mainly use to block RFI as well. power transformers do help match impedances but depends how the amp is designed. mostly tubes rely on transformers for matching impedances. some solid state uses it for matching impedances as well that's why they have dual layering/windings on some. if your worried about then make a 4-pole TRS jack to speaker output box and run it off the speaker outputs or rewire the headphone with 4-core wiring and 4-pin XLR?

i don't know how the yamaha CR series were voiced like but i think yamaha fellowed the natural sound approach to them like their other amps so it should have no sound signature to itself. most amps shouldn't. must of been the speakers used and the room they were in that will give the biggest impression of sound.


----------



## RexAeterna

chris j said:


> Man, that R-9 sounds like a very nice piece!




i just saw this. thanks! it is one yamaha's most under-appreciated amps. people that actually owned one(went for 900 bucks in 1985) liked it more than the CR series. wouldn't surprise me though since the MX-XX power amps are highly sought after power amps still and can still score them cheaper than pioneer or marantz and even sansui offerings. i liked yamaha stuff cause they're the only ones to drive 2ohm loads without blowing up or melting wires inside lol. that's what the MX-XX power amps were known for as well is their low-impedance speaker driving. lot used them for electrostatics and sub-woofer driving cause they can handle low impedances for long periods of time without stressing. i think the only upgrade from the R-9 would be the MX-1000 amp and CX-1000 pre-amp.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I know this is the vintage receiver thread but here is a vintage amp question.   Anyone have experience with  Dynaco MK III amps?


----------



## livewire

No, but I want to. Maybe. I think....
  Always been curious, specially about the hot rodded ones.


----------



## Coq de Combat

Hi,
   
  I hope this is the correct thread for my question.
   
  My father bought this little integrated stereo amplifier in the 80's; AKAI AM-U11.
   
  I don't really know much about this amplifier, however, when I put my headphones to it, it sounds ******* great except for this crackling noise that is connected to the potentiometer for volume and balance (it's on the same place). It takes a little wiggling to make it stop crackle, but when it does it blows every other receiver/amplifier I have in this house - especially for headphones. My question is, since I love old vintage amps, should I maybe start looking for old Marantz or Sansui stuff instead and throw this in the garbage, or would it be worth it to fix this one up? I know it sounds great, but the crackling and popping annoys me and if I could find a cheap old amp in good condition maybe it wouldn't be worth fixing this one up.
   
  What do you guys think? Does anyone know anything about this particular one? Is it worth fixing it or are there better amps out there for less money than it would take to fix this one up?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i know it's the power supply. it mainly use to block RFI as well. power transformers do help match impedances but depends how the amp is designed. mostly tubes rely on transformers for matching impedances. some solid state uses it for matching impedances as well that's why they have dual layering/windings on some. if your worried about then make a 4-pole TRS jack to speaker output box and run it off the speaker outputs or rewire the headphone with 4-core wiring and 4-pin XLR?
> i don't know how the yamaha CR series were voiced like but i think yamaha fellowed the natural sound approach to them like their other amps so it should have no sound signature to itself. most amps shouldn't. must of been the speakers used and the room they were in that will give the biggest impression of sound.


 


 You have power supply transformers mixed up with power amplifier output transformers. Yes, I agree, vacuum tube power amps normally have output transformers to optimize power delivery to 4, 8 and 16 ohm loads.
   
  Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............Maybe I'll try creating a 4 pole can jack for the CR-2020s speaker output.
   
  The CR-2020 has a very large power supply transformer but has no power amplifier output transformers. 
  I think that's what you guys like about the vintage receivers:  the huge power supplies and is why modern receivers weigh nothing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and why vintage receivers have such solid bass. That's just my opinion.....................


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





coq de combat said:


> I don't really know much about this amplifier, however, when I put my headphones to it, it sounds ******* great except for this crackling noise that is connected to the potentiometer for volume and balance (it's on the same place). It takes a little wiggling to make it stop crackle, but when it does it blows every other receiver/amplifier I have in this house - especially for headphones.


 


  The cracking noise is easy to fix with Caig's Deoxit.  Read this thread on AK to learn how it is used.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## Coq de Combat

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The cracking noise is easy to fix with Caig's Deoxit.  Read this thread on AK to learn how it is used.
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


 


  Thank you. I figured I could save a lot of money by keeping this one as my headphone amplifier (maybe even for the speakers - aside from the cracking noise it is really putting out better sound than my new pioneer receiver). Seems like it's more powerful in a way - the sound becomes fuller, more powerful, despite having the same "perceived" volume. Works wonders, especially for headphones, through my FiiO E10.
   
  I could have this fixing as my DIY project (haven't really dipped my feet into the whole DIY stuff, so fixing this one up will be a good first step). Great. Cheap. Again, thank you!


----------



## BmWr75

You are welcome.  Happy Holidays!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know this is the vintage receiver thread but here is a vintage amp question.   Anyone have experience with  Dynaco MK III amps?


 

 Dynaco made some great, high value products, and a ton of them were produced, so they are generally easy to find.  Any MK III will be old enough that it's going to need restoring/recapping to work well, though. And there are a zillion kits to do that for a Dynaco Stereo 70, so that might be a better way to go if you want to get a classic Dyna, unless you happen to have a local line on a pair of Mk III's.
   
  My first "real" stereo was a Van Alstine modified Dyna Stereo 70 and PAS 3.  It was killer.
   


  Quote: 





chris j said:


> You have power supply transformers mixed up with power amplifier output transformers. Yes, I agree, vacuum tube power amps normally have output transformers to optimize power delivery to 4, 8 and 16 ohm loads.
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............Maybe I'll try creating a 4 pole can jack for the CR-2020s speaker output.
> 
> ...


 

 Indeed, there have been almost no solid state amps made using output transformers, although there have been a few.  The point of solid state devices is that they don't really require the kind of impedance matching that tubes did.
   
  I also agree that the massive power supply sections of high end vintage gear is a big part of why it sounds as good as it does.  The power transformer in my SX-1980 is bigger than the one in my 600 wpc Sunfire power amp.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know this is the vintage receiver thread but here is a vintage amp question.   Anyone have experience with  Dynaco MK III amps?


 


  I have a completely restored, hot-rodded Dynaco ST70.  You can find these for about $500-600.  The MK III amps are very nice also.  There was a guy on AudioKarma.org with a pair of these for sale recently, but he and others talked him out of selling them.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know this is the vintage receiver thread but here is a vintage amp question.   Anyone have experience with  Dynaco MK III amps?


 


  No this just isn't a vintage receiver thread. As per title "Vintage *Integrated*/Receiver" , both "vintage integrated and power amps are more than welcome to be discuss. It's just so happen receivers are discussed a lot more. I wish the non receiver amps were discussed a lot more. When I created this thread, I didn't even own a receiver. The only vintage piece I owned was a tube integrated amp.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah it's funny, there are a lot of great integrated amps out there, too, but for some reason they haven't appealed to me as much.  Not sure why that is. 
   
  Scottiebabie was a big proponent of integrateds.  Wonder what became of him.  I miss his posts in this thread.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah it's funny, there are a lot of great integrated amps out there, too, but for some reason they haven't appealed to me as much.  Not sure why that is.
> 
> Scottiebabie was a big proponent of integrateds.  Wonder what became of him.  I miss his posts in this thread.


 

 I think you like vintage meters and lights!!! ( I draw my conclusion from your Marantz quad one)
   
  Yeah, where is Scottiebabies??????


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think you like vintage meters and lights!!! ( I draw my conclusion from your Marantz quad one)


 


  Yes, there is NO DOUBT about that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But you can get cool meters on a bunch of nice vintage integrateds, too.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah I miss his posts also, he also had a lot of knowledge when it came to vintage gear. There's a 2285b here for 350.00 in a wood case. It's a one owner in excellent condition. I really have the itch to get it. But I know it would be crazy to do so. Especially after just getting a 2325, and swearing off receivers in favor of integrated. Now I finally get it when it comes to a lot of women and their shopping. I've never understood how they could be so obsessed with getting stuff the don't need or already own. Now look at me.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yeah, where is Scottiebabies??????


 

 His last post was 8/18/11.  Doesn't appear he has been banned.


----------



## Meewoo

Hope nothing bad happened to him. Best wish for him!!
   
  (I was going to ask what happened to him long time ago but conceded since I was afraid of personal privacy.)


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah it's funny, there are a lot of great integrated amps out there, too, but for some reason they haven't appealed to me as much.  Not sure why that is.
> 
> Scottiebabie was a big proponent of integrateds.  Wonder what became of him.  I miss his posts in this thread.


 

 The nice thing about integrated amps is how clean lines they are. They just have a half a dozen or so knobs and thats it.
  
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think you like vintage meters and lights!!! ( I draw my conclusion from your Marantz quad one)
> 
> Yeah, where is Scottiebabies??????


 

 Hahah, who doesn't! I went for a receiver because i needed a tuner instead of me getting an integrated and a tuner, i just choose a vintage receiver which i find 1000x more beautiful that a new receiver.


----------



## Meewoo

@Moodyrn,
   
  Have you gotten your 2325 yet?
   
  Yesterday I exchanged my SX-1050 for a 2325 without wood case. Do you happen to know how the FM stereo works of 2325? The FM stereo lights in my 2325 keeps on and off even it was tuned in. When light goes off, the sound becomes unbalanced. And I have to restart the receiver to get light on again?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Dynaco made some great, high value products, and a ton of them were produced, so they are generally easy to find.  Any MK III will be old enough that it's going to need restoring/recapping to work well, though. And there are a zillion kits to do that for a Dynaco Stereo 70, so that might be a better way to go if you want to get a classic Dyna, unless you happen to have a local line on a pair of Mk III's.
> 
> My first "real" stereo was a Van Alstine modified Dyna Stereo 70 and PAS 3.  It was killer.
> 
> ...


 


 I wonder if the Sunfire has a switch mode power supply?  Could be why the transformer in the Sunfire is so wee?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> No this just isn't a vintage receiver thread. As per title "Vintage *Integrated*/Receiver" , both "vintage integrated and power amps are more than welcome to be discuss. It's just so happen receivers are discussed a lot more. I wish the non receiver amps were discussed a lot more. When I created this thread, I didn't even own a receiver. The only vintage piece I owned was a tube integrated amp.


 


 Then why didn't anyone show any love for the Bryston 2B-LP post I put in here a few days ago?
  Sob! It has feelings too!


----------



## Skylab

It does use an unusual power supply, but it isn't just the Sunfire.  You would be hard pressed to find ANY power amp that uses a bigger power Trafo than the SX-1980


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> @Moodyrn,
> 
> Have you gotten your 2325 yet?
> 
> Yesterday I exchanged my SX-1050 for a 2325 without wood case. Do you happen to know how the FM stereo works of 2325? The FM stereo lights in my 2325 keeps on and off even it was tuned in. When light goes off, the sound becomes unbalanced. And I have to restart the receiver to get light on again?


 

 Yeah, I listened to it briefly just to test out all of the inputs, and tuner. Now it's taken apart, and I'm waiting on the parts to build my diy led lamps, and some really nice power supply caps. I'm almost finished with the cleaning, but been really taking my time with that since some of the parts are coming in from CA to AL. I didn't use an antenna when I tested the fm. So when I tuned in to a station it didn't come in clear enough for the stereo light to light up. But I should have it completed this weekend and I'll see if I get the same results as you and let you know.
   
  How do you like it compared to the panny?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It does use an unusual power supply, but it isn't just the Sunfire.  You would be hard pressed to find ANY power amp that uses a bigger power Trafo than the SX-1980


 


  I'll go you one better. There isn't a lot that uses transformers even as big as the one in the 1250 either. There are a few, but you really have to pay the piper for them.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah it's funny, there are a lot of great integrated amps out there, too, but for some reason they haven't appealed to me as much.  Not sure why that is.
> 
> *Scottiebabie was a big proponent of integrateds.  Wonder what became of him.  I miss his posts in this thread.*


 
   
  As do I. Getting into vintage gear can be as much a leap of faith as anything else. Guys like Scottiebabie was as generous with his knowledge as his enthusiasm  and made it a pleasure to be on Head-Fi and get into vintage gear.


----------



## Skylab

Well, time to fess up.  I was a bad boy this weekend.  There was a Pioneer SX-1010 on the Chicago Craigslist that had already been completely restored/rebuilt by Mark The Fixer of AudioKarma fame.  I had to sell my stock Sansui 9090 in order to make room, but since I prefer to have restored vintage units, it seemed like a good trade-off, and I do have a completely restored 9090DB anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The SX-1010 is bigger and heavier than I expected.  Nice looking, too, although I prefer the looks of the all-silver Pioneers better.  Sounds great though! Warmer sounding than the 1250 or 1980.  
  ​


----------



## moodyrn

Ha, can't believe you got one. And yes it's no slouch, and even bigger than my 2325. It was pioneer's original monster receiver and the one that started all. I really loved that thing. I have a very good feeling I'll be going back to it again. The way it effortlessly drove the he-6 out of the headphone out was simply amazing. Unfortunately I found the sound to be just a little too clean, and a tad analytical. But it sounded fantastic with the d7000 I had at the time. I've been saying for a while that the sx1010 is the sweet spot in the sx line up. It's a lot cheaper than the 1250 because it's so over looked, but it's even prefer by some over at AK and one other member here to it.
   
   
  When I first got mine I also mention how big and heavy it was. Weighs just a little more than my 2325.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I thought you would get a kick out of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Right now it's hooked up to my HPM-60's. I need to try it with the 100's so I can really know how it sounds compared to the 1250 or 1980.  For sure the 1010 sounds good though.  Of course this particular 1010 will have a bit of its own sound, having been totally recapped and all.


----------



## dogwan

Hey all,
   
  I have a question about my vintage Hitachi IA-1000 integrated (I posted pics here a while ago). I've never really liked the headphone out on it. Otherwise it sounds really good matched with a pair of Dynaco A-25's. So last night I got a little curious and dug out the really badly scanned service manual because I've never really looked at the headphone circuit. Turns out it is just a pair of 220R/2w resistors tapped in between the output caps and the speaker selector switches (indiv. for A and B).
   

   
  So with speakers this little amp has a nice warm sound with tight bass and a smooth top end. However, with headphones it has really loose flabby bass, sucked out midrange, and harsh highs. I'ver tried everything from HD600's, K701, orthos, Grados, etc. and while I get different sound sigs none of them sound good.
   
  Now the question is, is there anything I can do? If I remove the resistors I will essentially be the same as running off the speaker taps. Could it be that the output caps are too old or not up to the job with headphones? (I recapped the entire amp, but have not located appropriate output caps yet-2200uf/90v electrolytics bypassed with smaller films)
   
  Or should I just let it go since I really don't need to use headphones with this setup in the living room?
   
  Any thoughts?
   
  -Dogwan


----------



## moodyrn

I personally think the 1010 looks nice, but Iike you, I also prefer the looks of the xx50/80 models. When it comes to looks, I would put the pioneers second right behind the marantz. But that's jmo. But I'm really interested to see how much you like it after you spend some time with it and how you would rate it compare to your other two pioneers.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, time to fess up.  I was a bad boy this weekend.  There was a Pioneer SX-1010 on the Chicago Craigslist that had already been completely restored/rebuilt by Mark The Fixer of AudioKarma fame.  I had to sell my stock Sansui 9090 in order to make room, but since I prefer to have restored vintage units, it seemed like a good trade-off, and I do have a completely restored 9090DB anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Buy SX-828 and SX-3900, you'll have all TOTL of Pioneer receivers listed on silverpioneer.
  I think Pionny SPECs are calling for you. Congrats!!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Meewoo.  My vintage receiver collection is already ridiculous enough! No more are allowed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just isn't any room.  They're all well enough contained in racks now that I'm not in too much trouble with the wife...but one more, and I would be! And if it weren't for the fact that I work from home and my office is in the attic, I would even be allowed as many as I do have.  Most of my vintage gear is in the attic, including the man-cave vintage rig I've posted pictures of here many times.  I'm allowed to put pretty much anything I want up here as long as its neatly housed.


----------



## cifani090

Skylab, in your attic! Do you have any pieces that aren't "restored" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man id trade you a 1010 for a 9090 any day.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote:  





> When it comes to looks, I would put the pioneers second right behind the marantz. But that's jmo.


 

 Did you already forget your KR-9600? It looks like Marantz too. IMHO, the best looking receiver is Setton RS-660, simple, elegant but classic. (Someone may say it gayish with light pink on glass, hey it was designed by European.)
   
  I haven't listened to 2325 through speakers yet, the DC is 160mv and 240mv
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.(I have to download the service manual from hifiengine and reset DC later.)
  It has typical Marantz sound through the headphones, hope to hear your impression soon. I just checked the production year of 2325 (74-76), it seems that 2325 is competing with sx-1010 and kr-9400 back then.(which Sansui receiver was produced at that time frame? 9090?) From the watts, Marantz tops Pioneer and Kenwood in 74 and 75.


----------



## Meewoo

Skylab, Sx-828 just a middle size one, you can easily put it on your R2R. And Sx-3900 has women pleasing fluscan, you can buy one as gift for your wife!!
   
   
  I read a lot that AKers' women love fluscan lights. I recall one Aker trade his sx-3900 for a Sansui G-20000 or AU-11000 (not sure) since the owner's wife loves the lights. (what a trade!!!)
   
   
  Do we need a womanizer vintage list???


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have a question about my vintage Hitachi IA-1000 integrated (I posted pics here a while ago). I've never really liked the headphone out on it. Otherwise it sounds really good matched with a pair of Dynaco A-25's. So last night I got a little curious and dug out the really badly scanned service manual because I've never really looked at the headphone circuit. Turns out it is just a pair of 220R/2w resistors tapped in between the output caps and the speaker selector switches (indiv. for A and B).
> 
> ...


 


  I'd swap out those old resistors for Holco or TKD CM2 series (2 W 1%)  or Caddock MP925 (2.25W) type resistors. The caps you are talking about are you sure those are on the outputs ? Sound like a mains (PSU) filter cap to me. At any rate Partsconnexion has what I suggested as well as the larger electrolytic values as well as decent film caps for bypass work (the Vishay/Roderstein MKP-1837's are terrific for bypassing duty and the price is right). If you have a DMM check the values of the stock resistors (in relation to their color code bands). They might have drifted a fair bit. The mushy bottom end is one of the signs of dried up or leaky electrolytic. Most quality film caps will last a long time but they can be easily bettered with today's offerings (IMO anyway). As far as the expense for upgrading the headphone output the actual cost should be well under 40 dollars (including shipping). Might be fun to customize the head amp output........
   
  Good luck.


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, time to fess up.  I was a bad boy this weekend.  There was a Pioneer SX-1010 on the Chicago Craigslist that had already been completely restored/rebuilt by Mark The Fixer of AudioKarma fame.  I had to sell my stock Sansui 9090 in order to make room, but since I prefer to have restored vintage units, it seemed like a good trade-off, and I do have a completely restored 9090DB anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Wow Sky you are on a roll these days with the vintage kit. Did the seller happen to have a internal pic of his rebuild by any chance. I'd love to see what they did. My own vintage Pioneer unit is still out on loan to a buddy (until I get a part for his full time amp and get it up and running like it should once again).  Cool collection of vintage gear you have going. You need a bigger house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Peete.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Did you already forget your KR-9600? It looks like Marantz too. IMHO, the best looking receiver is Setton RS-660, simple, elegant but classic. (Someone may say it gayish with light pink on glass, hey it was designed by European.)
> 
> I haven't listened to 2325 through speakers yet, the DC is 160mv and 240mv
> 
> ...


 
  You know what, you're right. But that kenwood is in a class of it's own when it comes to looks imo. All of those meters, silver, black face, multiple color lamps etc. I've never seen anything like it. I really thought about keeping it. But with the klipsch epics gone, I just couldn't justify it and didn't have anywhere to put it. It won't fit in any kind of a rack. The space I had it in is now occupied by the fisher.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> I'd swap out those old resistors for Holco or TKD CM2 series (2 W 1%)  or Caddock MP925 (2.25W) type resistors. The caps you are talking about are you sure those are on the outputs ? Sound like a mains (PSU) filter cap to me. At any rate Partsconnexion has what I suggested as well as the larger electrolytic values as well as decent film caps for bypass work (the Vishay/Roderstein MKP-1837's are terrific for bypassing duty and the price is right). If you have a DMM check the values of the stock resistors (in relation to their color code bands). They might have drifted a fair bit. The mushy bottom end is one of the signs of dried up or leaky electrolytic. Most quality film caps will last a long time but they can be easily bettered with today's offerings (IMO anyway). As far as the expense for upgrading the headphone output the actual cost should be well under 40 dollars (including shipping). Might be fun to customize the head amp output........
> 
> Good luck.


 
   
  Yeah, absolutely positive the caps are on the output. Confirmed by tracing and by the schematic. I've already replaced the film bypass caps. The trouble has been finding high quality caps of the same or higher value that will fit in the space provided. In the attached pic you will see the 3 large black 'lytic's, 1 is for the PS, the other 2 are the output coupling caps. Haven't been able to find replacements that will fit the clamps and still allow replacing the cover.
   
  The more I think about it the more I think I should replace them before worrying about the headphone out.
   
  As to the resistors, they are all carbon film throughout. I've always liked the sound of carbon films. Suppose I could try replacing the headphone padding resistors and see what difference it makes.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah it's funny, there are a lot of great integrated amps out there, too, but for some reason they haven't appealed to me as much.  Not sure why that is.
> 
> Scottiebabie was a big proponent of integrateds.  Wonder what became of him.  I miss his posts in this thread.


 

  
  I myself am more interested in integrated vintage for two reasons.  One I'm using them as amplification for flat screen setups in my home and the the receivers are too bright at night.  Two. I never listen to FM ever.  Cannot stand FM anymore.


----------



## Skylab

@Peete - thanks, and I will try to find time to post some internals.
   
  @W Ant - I understand what you are saying, although there are some good sounding FM stations I like here in Chi, so FM is actually kinda useful for me.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I know many of you vintage gents also build and repair.  Has any one built the kits from  Bob Latino?  
   
   
  http://bob01605.50webs.com/
   
  I hope this isn't derailing this thread.


----------



## BmWr75

@skylab - welcome to the SX-1010 club.  Mine is burning in some Fostex T50RPs right now.  Will start the BMF mods on the cans Wednesday when the materials come.


----------



## Skylab

Ha! Thanks Scott. Forgot you had one of these too


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, time to fess up.  I was a bad boy this weekend.  There was a Pioneer SX-1010 on the Chicago Craigslist that had already been completely restored/rebuilt by Mark The Fixer of AudioKarma fame.  I had to sell my stock Sansui 9090 in order to make room, but since I prefer to have restored vintage units, it seemed like a good trade-off, and I do have a completely restored 9090DB anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 LOL LUcky guy you are my friend. Mark has an 18 month query for rebuilds


----------



## Skylab

Ahhhh...right you are, Frank.  And that was a big part of why I jumped on this one.  And it was really very reasonably priced, actually...at the price I paid I basically paid for Mark's work and got the receiver for free! So it felt very compelling.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ahhhh...right you are, Frank.  And that was a big part of why I jumped on this one.  And it was really very reasonably priced, actually...at the price I paid I basically paid for Mark's work and got the receiver for free! So it felt very compelling.


 


  Now you need to buy more rooms for the house. LOL but switching can be fun.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have a question about my vintage Hitachi IA-1000 integrated (I posted pics here a while ago). I've never really liked the headphone out on it. Otherwise it sounds really good matched with a pair of Dynaco A-25's. So last night I got a little curious and dug out the really badly scanned service manual because I've never really looked at the headphone circuit. Turns out it is just a pair of 220R/2w resistors tapped in between the output caps and the speaker selector switches (indiv. for A and B).
> 
> ...


 


 Try running it right off the speaker taps.
  The 220R resistors are probably the cause of all your problems, 220R sounds way too high to run cans from.


----------



## wualta

I'm with Chris. Your amp can't have any DC offset, so give the direct connection a try.


----------



## wotts

There goes the Dark Star fund...

  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I know many of you vintage gents also build and repair.  Has any one built the kits from  Bob Latino?
> 
> 
> http://bob01605.50webs.com/
> ...


 

  
   
  And to stay on topic: 


   
   
  Since I moved I haven't had the chance to get this hooked back up. I am thinking about using it in my workshop as a headamp/speaker amp. If I wanted to stay vintage, what speakers should I be looking for?


----------



## moodyrn

I just got my new power supply caps installed. They're a nice set of vishay sprague 18000uf 75 volt as seen here.http://www.newark.com/vishay-sprague/36dy183f075bc2a/capacitor-alum-elec-18000uf-75v/dp/66C7784
   
  I must say, they provide a nice improvement over the stock ones even without burnin. The most noticable improvment is more slam and extension in the bass along with better transparency and a more extended top end. No longer do the highs sound slighly rolled off. My he-6 really sounds spectacular now, and even better than they did out of the kenwood kr9600. I still think the 9600 is the better overall amp, but that opinion may change once I spend more time with the marantz. But I did buy this exclusively to use with the he-6, and for that purpose it's a real winner. The best I've heard them so far.


----------



## Wharfrat

moodyrn said:


> Yeah I miss his posts also, he also had a lot of knowledge when it came to vintage gear. There's a 2285b here for 350.00 in a wood case. It's a one owner in excellent condition. I really have the itch to get it. But I know it would be crazy to do so. Especially after just getting a 2325, and swearing off receivers in favor of integrated. Now I finally get it when it comes to a lot of women and their shopping. I've never understood how they could be so obsessed with getting stuff the don't need or already own. Now look at me.


 

 Woe is us!  Even after getting the 2275 the same day you got your 2325, On Saturday, I got lustful over a day-old local CL posting of a SX-1250 for $250 with a pretty intact wooden case. Only problem was one channel was out.  The guy had buried it in his storage space for a good number of years, so I felt maybe it would need a DeOxit job and some minor parts replacement to get it working well again.  Then I would make millions reselling it on E-Bay if my saner other half convinced me the rack and the screw were much more preferable means of my demise than the one she had designed for me should I buy one more cotton-picking piece of audio gear....
   
  So here goes...Check out Seattle Craig's List and if you get a deal down, PM me and I could pick it up and help get it shipped to you, honest.....nothing but love for other head-fiers, natch. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It is only a 45 minute drive off my island....


----------



## Wharfrat

Earlier I posted a question addressed to Ardgedee regarding the SQ he experienced with his Scott 222 integrated tube amp as I recall he indicated he hadn't the time to hook it up previously.  Am reposting again in hopes he will offer up a review of sorts for such a venerable relic of days long gone. 
   
  I was given a Scott 222-B by a co worker and took it in to an audio repair shop in Seattle called Northwest Audio to get it properly turned on and tested and hopefully restored.  Walked in and promptly, embarrassingly wet myself.  The place was stocked floor to ceiling, from the front window back to the rear of the store with mainly vintage stuff all awaiting repair.  I bet many of them have been there for months due to unobtanium parts.  I had previously read customer reviews and nearly all of them were 5 stars for the customer service and rareified knowledge the elderly owner had about the ancient days of audio yore he was willing to tell anyone standing still long enough to listen...sho' nuff, I got my 10 minutes of audio history about the Scott.  Turns out the store owner personally knew another equally ancient audio geek across town who had worked at the Scott factory back in the 60's and is still alive  to repair Scott tube gear these days.  My unit is hopefully going to be turned over to him to be brought back to life....Imagine, I am just 2 steps removed from somebody who actually worked at the factory, who'd thunk that?
   
  Funny, those six degrees of separation....


----------



## publicholiday

New members on the shelf, a wonderful TDA 1541 player Philips CD 350 and smooth sounding Yamaha CR-1020


----------



## Skylab

Hey Wotts,
   
  What size and price range were you thinking on the vintage speakers for that Marantz? Let us know and we will make some recommendations


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hey Wotts,
> 
> What size and price range were you thinking on the vintage speakers for that Marantz? Let us know and we will make some recommendations


 

 x2, maybe some vintage Klipsch, JBL, Bose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, Yamaha, B&W, etc.


----------



## moodyrn

As you can see, I'm a big fan of vintage klipsch speakers. They come in all shapes and sizes. I don't care for any klipsch speaker made in the last 15 years or so. But their heritage line sounds outsanding imo. And they sound really good with the warmish sounding vintage gear made back in the day such as your marantz
  .


----------



## Skylab

NICE.  I've thought often of buying some Heresey's, but never have.
   
  I did just buy off eBay a pair of "NOS" Infinity Kappa 6's.  This was their smallest 3-way Kappa (famous for its ribbon EMIT tweeter).  Some guy in Texas is selling several pairs he claims to be NOS for $559 a pair shipped.  If they really are NOS that will have ended up being a smoking deal.  I hope they will arrive mid next week.
   
  That will probably mean my HPM-60's have to go, but that's OK.  I mostly use the HPM-100's anyway.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> As you can see, I'm a big fan of vintage klipsch speakers. They come in all shapes and sizes. I don't care for any klipsch speaker made in the last 15 years or so. But their heritage line sounds outsanding imo. And they sound really good with the warmish sounding vintage gear made back in the day such as your marantz


 

 From bottom to top: Kenwood 9600, Kenwood 1010, Maranz SACD player, Scott tube amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ** That's without looking at your profile with your equipment list, if its on there, haven't even bothered to look. 
   
  Also where are the LaScala's? When you get them, throw the rest away


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NICE.  I've thought often of buying some Heresey's, but never have.
> 
> I did just buy off eBay a pair of "NOS" Infinity Kappa 6's.  This was their smallest 3-way Kappa (famous for its ribbon EMIT tweeter).  Some guy in Texas is selling several pairs he claims to be NOS for $559 a pair shipped.  If they really are NOS that will have ended up being a smoking deal.  I hope they will arrive mid next week.
> 
> That will probably mean my HPM-60's have to go, but that's OK.  I mostly use the HPM-100's anyway.


 

These look pretty nice! I was looking into a pair on my craigslist, or on a trade some time ago, but i passed and i was always worried that those drivers shown on the ebay listing were not the original drivers.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> New members on the shelf, a wonderful TDA 1541 player Philips CD 350 and smooth sounding Yamaha CR-1020


 


 CR-1020..........nice!
  How much power does that output into 8 ohms?
  Would love to hear your thoughts on the tuner?


----------



## RexAeterna

moodyrn said:


> As you can see, I'm a big fan of vintage klipsch speakers. They come in all shapes and sizes. I don't care for any klipsch speaker made in the last 15 years or so. But their heritage line sounds outsanding imo. And they sound really good with the warmish sounding vintage gear made back in the day such as your marantz
> .




awesome set-up! wood floors though are my worst enemy. reflections drive me crazy when they resonate off walls or floors. that's why i'm glad i stopped being lazy and finished my room. sounds ''dead'' now where your own voice gets vacuumed out and hear ''silence'' the moment you step in.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NICE.  I've thought often of buying some Heresey's, but never have.
> 
> I did just buy off eBay a pair of "NOS" Infinity Kappa 6's.  This was their smallest 3-way Kappa (famous for its ribbon EMIT tweeter).  Some guy in Texas is selling several pairs he claims to be NOS for $559 a pair shipped.  If they really are NOS that will have ended up being a smoking deal.  I hope they will arrive mid next week.
> 
> That will probably mean my HPM-60's have to go, but that's OK.  I mostly use the HPM-100's anyway.


 

 Thanks! If they are nos, yes that would be killer. But even if they are not, and are mint, that's still a good deal.

  
  Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> From bottom to top: Kenwood 9600, Kenwood 1010, Maranz SACD player, Scott tube amp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Almost right, except the the scott is a fisher. As far as lascalas go, I'm pretty sure I would since that's exactly what I did once I got the forte II's. I really love the epics a lot and was more than satisfied with those. But the scalas are just way too big for my listening room. The kg4's were a good change of pace from them and sounded very different. But the forte II's had all of the strenghts of both and were on another league once I replaced the tweets with Bob Crites. My next step is to replace the crossovers with the crites and auto transformers. But right now they sound just lovely with the fisher.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> awesome set-up! wood floors though are my worst enemy. reflections drive me crazy when they resonate off walls or floors. that's why i'm glad i stopped being lazy and finished my room. sounds ''dead'' now where your own voice gets vacuumed out and hear ''silence'' the moment you step in.


 


  Yeah they sound better in my family room, but I have my home theater with a 9.2 psb setup in there. So with 11 speakers already, you know that's out of the equation. I had the epics set up in my office with is only 10x11 and even with the room being too small, they still sounded better in there. But my office is much too small for the forte ii's and in the room they are in now, they still sound by far better than anything I've ever owned. My wife said the difference between the fortes and the psb t65 in my my home theater setup is one set sounds like speakers and the other sounds like you're there. And I agree. It sounds like sounds are coming from everywhere but the speakers.
   
   
  Sorry for derailing my own thread, and my apologies to Cifani090. These comments should have been made in his vintage speaker forum.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> As you can see, I'm a big fan of vintage klipsch speakers. They come in all shapes and sizes. I don't care for any klipsch speaker made in the last 15 years or so. But their heritage line sounds outsanding imo. And they sound really good with the warmish sounding vintage gear made back in the day such as your marantz
> .


 


  I could look at that photo all day long - simply beautiful! If only I could be a bachelor again - just for a while...


----------



## Meewoo

It's crowded here today!!
   
  @Moodyrn
  You have a lot of horns!! As seeing a Aker's motto: Horns love tube, bass loves SS. You may try biamp the Klipsch with your tube and 2325.
  I had KG 4.2 before, but I found the bass is too loose. My 79 Heresy has better controlled bass and sounds very sweet. Yeah, I think horn sounds very sweet!!
   
  @Skylab,
  Congrats to your Infinity Kappa 6!! Hope you can post some impression in sister thread of speakers!!
   
  As for the vintage speakers, other than members recommendation, I just couldn't hold myself to post my opinion.
  ADS or A\D\S, the flat response and great image make them very good to pair vintage Yammy as monitor. But they sound well with other SS too.
  But, I have one favorite to recommend: *Allison* (every Allison is fantastic)
  If you can find one with original drivers, go get them and you will know why I push them!!! But most Allison can't be repaired, especially the tweeter are hard to come, and most them will have broken grills too.
   
  Here is my new acquirer, 1991 Denon PMA 860

  It's not vintage, but it still has discrete design. And can drive my AKG K 340 well. It has modern sound, clean, clear and has "source direct" function. Man Denon PMA are really good stuff in 80's.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> awesome set-up! wood floors though are my worst enemy. reflections drive me crazy when they resonate off walls or floors. that's why i'm glad i stopped being lazy and finished my room. sounds ''dead'' now where your own voice gets vacuumed out and hear ''silence'' the moment you step in.


 


  I just finished reading Floyd Toole's book, "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms." 
   
  I've been into home audio/hi-fi since the 70's and thought I understood reflection, bass modes, and speaker dispersion and placement principles. Turns out I didn't. I highly recommend this book to anyone setting up a listening room.
   
  He'll change your mind Rex - I guarantee it...


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I could look at that photo all day long - simply beautiful! If only I could be a bachelor again - just for a while...


 
   
   
   
  I feel your pain. My wife told me some had to go. So the only thing left are the fortes. But I had a blast while it lasted. I wish my home office was large enough to accommodate everything, but unfortunately it's not. But I'm enjoying my fortes so much I never really think about the other ones.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> It's crowded here today!!
> 
> @Moodyrn
> You have a lot of horns!! As seeing a Aker's motto: Horns love tube, bass loves SS. You may try biamp the Klipsch with your tube and 2325.
> I had KG 4.2 before, but I found the bass is too loose. My 79 Heresy has better controlled bass and sounds very sweet. Yeah, I think horn sounds very sweet!!


 
   
   
  You know that's a great idea and I fully agree on how much the horns love tubes. It's strange but the epics sounded their best with the kenwood, but both the kg4's and forte's really synergized with the fisher. Well the epics aren't quiet vintage(1994). They were really the transitioning line between the classic and modern klipsch sound. They don't sound as good as the fortes and cornwalls of the world, but sounds much better the anything from their current production imo(what happen to klipsch). The main reason why both the pioneer and kenwood are now gone, is because the fortes are the only ones left. I really can't bi amp them now, but once I upgrade to the crite crossovers I will be able to. I'm very interested in how that would sound.
   
   
  As they say in the klipsch forum, you never heard mids until you hear a klipsch mid horn from their heritage lines. Their mid horns can be absolutely addictive.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Infinity Kappa 6's.  This was their smallest 3-way Kappa (famous for its ribbon EMIT tweeter).


 
  Don't tell anybody, but it's not a "true" ribbon tweeter. It's.... wait for it... orthodynamic.


----------



## RexAeterna

palmfish said:


> I just finished reading Floyd Toole's book, "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms."
> 
> 
> 
> ...




thanks for the suggestion! will look into. might be something i don't know. i know of most stuff you mention but will look into more. i also already know most people will tell me ''dead'' sounding room is a bad thing. true. if your recording instruments but for play back,relaxing or music listening i find it best environment. allows the speakers take full control over the soundstage and imaging on and off axis and give you that full 360 degree of sound all around you with good clean placement. i appreciate the link a lot though. am defiantly gonna read up on his stuff cause there is always something new to learn.


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta said:


> Don't tell anybody, but it's not a "true" ribbon tweeter. It's.... wait for it... orthodynamic.




lol,yea. seems ribbons and planers get mixed up a lot. i know they're somewhat identical in concept but nothing a like in most cases. i actually heard they're a secret project of a ''true ribbon'' headphone being tested. i forgot the company but they're well known for their true ribbon speakers and they even have a huge ribbon sub-woofers capable of extending down real deep.


----------



## Skylab

Ahhhh...yes...true that. A planar tweeter.  But I liked "ortho tweeter" better, good one


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> As you can see, I'm a big fan of vintage klipsch speakers. They come in all shapes and sizes. I don't care for any klipsch speaker made in the last 15 years or so. But their heritage line sounds outsanding imo. And they sound really good with the warmish sounding vintage gear made back in the day such as your marantz
> .


 


 IMO the best sounding and more balanced sound Klipsch speakers are the Cornwall. If I get to build a vintage system I would go back to the Cornwalls immeditley.


----------



## ardgedee

The true ribbon tweeter is the ribbon that cannot be tweeted.
   
  @Wharfrat: Check your pm.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> And if it weren't for the fact that I work from home and my office is in the attic, I would even be allowed as many as I do have.  Most of my vintage gear is in the attic, including the man-cave vintage rig I've posted pictures of here many times.  I'm allowed to put pretty much anything I want up here as long as its neatly housed.


 

 Being able to enjoy my stereo has been one of the pleasures of working from a spare room. Unfortunately it looks like I won't be a member of Club Home Office for much longer, so soon I'll be back to looking for portable gear that brings as much pleasure (and provides me as much access to my music library).


----------



## wualta

The Germans gave it the best name: leaf tweeter.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Being able to enjoy my stereo has been one of the pleasures of working from a spare room. Unfortunately it looks like I won't be a member of Club Home Office for much longer, so soon I'll be back to looking for portable gear that brings as much pleasure (and provides me as much access to my music library).


 

 Definitely one of the biggest benefits about working from home, versus 100% headphone use.  I've been home office working since 2003; I doubt I could ever go back to a commute and working in a "real" office.  Hopefully I won't ever have to.


----------



## 5aces

palmfish said:


> If only I could be a bachelor again - just for a while


 


moodyrn said:


> My wife told me some had to go. So the only thing left are the fortes.






I know you two didn't intend on starting a comedy sketch but I was splitting my sides laughing after looking at moodryn's photo and the resulting responses. 
The largerst vintage receiver made as a foundation for a stack with three other stereo components coupled to *six* Floorstanding Klipsch...

Good on you for getting all that into the main house for *any* length of time.
At least you were not relegated to a back shed or garage.

Coming by with a box of beer,some good whiskey,more gear,ample music and a few more guys to listen on the couch-would have been priceless.
Thanks for the memories.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


skylab said:


> Definitely one of the biggest benefits about working from home, versus 100% headphone use.  I've been home office working since 2003; I doubt I could ever go back to a commute and working in a "real" office.  Hopefully I won't ever have to.


 

 Since my partner also frequently works from her home office, I'm often listening on headphones anyway.
   
  When the dust settles I expect to have a commute I can do by bicycle year-round so I would rather consider this trading in one of my money- and time-consuming hobbies for another.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





5aces said:


> I know you two didn't intend on starting a comedy sketch but I was splitting my sides laughing after looking at moodryn's photo and the resulting responses.
> The largerst vintage receiver made as a foundation for a stack with three other stereo components coupled to *six* Floorstanding Klipsch...
> Good on you for getting all that into the main house for *any* length of time.
> At least you were not relegated to a back shed or garage.
> ...


 


  I did get a chance to have a couple of people over. Only the pioneer sits on top of the kenwood. The marantz and fisher are on racks. Also only the kg4's and forte ii's were in that spot long term. I used the epics upstairs in my office. I brought everything together one day to compare each one directly which is why you see the el-cheapo wire in the picture. I just used it to quickly switch back and forth both between amps and the speakers. But it was a fun time having all of those together at one time. All speakers from the same manufacturer, and they all sounded completely different. I may do a write up on how all of them sounded and post it in the vintage speaker forum.


----------



## 5aces

Sounds like good times-however brief.
Since it's not critical listening and more for fun,I use a powered A/V RCA splitter box to send the same signal into three preamplifiers at once.

As you turn the volumes up it can be interesting to see how each amplifier/speaker system will overtake the other at different levels.
As a system A/B,you simply mute one or the other with no wires or plugs to move.

I rather enjoy the ability to select a specific speaker/amp on any given day with the flick of a switch.
Klipsch,JBL,Yamaha all have their own sound for sure. 

Epic Speakertime photo anyhow,nice to see another person out there making it happen.


----------



## wotts

Thanks for the recommendations everyone!
   
  Sooo... I live alone currently, so size is of no concern. Since it's going in the shop (or if they just rock, in the living room) I was thinking more about the 2ft tall cabinets. I have been looking at some $250-$450 clean looking pairs on craigslist lately, and I think I want to stay in that price range. Being that I don't know what brands to look for, or what is out there, I've held off on purchasing anything. There was one Marantz pair and one Sansui pair that were both in excellent shape.
   
  I am definitely interested in a pair of vintage (late 70s) Snells. I heard a pair hooked to a nice 2230B and fell in love. I haven't found anything like that though.
   
  I wasn't aware of the vintage speaker thread either. I'll start going through there and see what everyone has.

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hey Wotts,
> 
> What size and price range were you thinking on the vintage speakers for that Marantz? Let us know and we will make some recommendations


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Sounds like good times-however brief.
> Since it's not critical listening and more for fun,I use a powered A/V RCA splitter box to send the same signal into three preamplifiers at once.
> As you turn the volumes up it can be interesting to see how each amplifier/speaker system will overtake the other at different levels.
> As a system A/B,you simply mute one or the other with no wires or plugs to move.
> ...


 

 Does the powered A/V RCA splitter affect the signal? I mean the the gain in splitter box add noise to signal? Which brand is good? Could it split the phono signal also? Thanks!!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Thanks for the recommendations everyone!
> 
> Sooo... I live alone currently, so size is of no concern. Since it's going in the shop (or if they just rock, in the living room) I was thinking more about the 2ft tall cabinets. I have been looking at some $250-$450 clean looking pairs on craigslist lately, and I think I want to stay in that price range. Being that I don't know what brands to look for, or what is out there, I've held off on purchasing anything. There was one Marantz pair and one Sansui pair that were both in excellent shape.
> 
> ...


 

 For the warm sound of the Marantz receiver I would pair it with the Klipsch Forte, Chorus or Cornwall.
  I personally prefer these then the Scala, Belle or Horn. The first 3 use similar midrange and tweeter than the Heresy but with bigger bass driver so the sound is more balanced to my ears. The las 3 use a lot bigger horns making them to bright to my taste.
   
  If you have enough current out of your Marantz then another good option is ADS. The L1290 and L1590 are very nice floorstanding with a small foot print or if you can find the rare M20.


----------



## 5aces

4 Way RCA Audio Video Splitter-reasonable on the bay,independent amplified outputs,high isolation,excellent interference resistance.
The powered splitter is for longer cable runs and outputs the same signal going in x 4.I just happened to have one around.

 

I also have a Rolls Mini Route 3,it is a passive switch.You can't split the signal 3-ways at once,only to one different amp at a time using the selector.
It does have a convenient 1/8 jack input/output for MP3 players.
Works both ways-i.e. one source to 3 amplifiers or 3 sources to one amplifier (excluding the 1/8 jacks). 

There are others,just don't get the two dollar one.

HiFiers have been splitting signals for years. 
Depending on how sensitive your ears are and the quality of your source,perhaps you may hear a minute difference.
Unless you are doing research and making graphs,I should think the sound impact factor of a powered splitter is small enough to not be noticed at this level of high fidelity.

For convenience,pleasure and the knowledge shared amongst your friends while doing comparisons,you have a useful tool.
For your turntable,you will need to insert a phono preamp,with the appropriate cartridge load.
The output of your phono preamp is at line level,you can split the signal after the phono preamp.

Been years since I listened to the Thorens TD 160 Super.
If I dig it out,I'll be riding the same slippery slope everyone else is on here.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> For the warm sound of the Marantz receiver I would pair it with the Klipsch Forte, Chorus or Cornwall.
> I personally prefer these then the Scala, Belle or Horn. The first 3 use similar midrange and tweeter than the Heresy but with bigger bass driver so the sound is more balanced to my ears. The las 3 use a lot bigger horns making them to bright to my taste.
> 
> If you have enough current out of your Marantz then another good option is ADS. The L1290 and L1590 are very nice floorstanding with a small foot print or if you can find the rare M20.


 

 Put rare in front of something, and i have to look further into it. What do you mean M20's?


----------



## wotts

Thanks for the input Jose. I will definitely check those out.

  
  Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> For the warm sound of the Marantz receiver I would pair it with the Klipsch Forte, Chorus or Cornwall.
> I personally prefer these then the Scala, Belle or Horn. The first 3 use similar midrange and tweeter than the Heresy but with bigger bass driver so the sound is more balanced to my ears. The las 3 use a lot bigger horns making them to bright to my taste.
> 
> If you have enough current out of your Marantz then another good option is ADS. The L1290 and L1590 are very nice floorstanding with a small foot print or if you can find the rare M20.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody used the marantz 2220B headphone jack?
  wonder if it could drive something like an LCD2?
  i know the 2275 is great with the audeze.
  and i figure the HP jacks have to be very similar


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody used the marantz 2220B headphone jack?
> wonder if it could drive something like an LCD2?
> i know the 2275 is great with the audeze.
> and i figure the HP jacks have to be very similar


 


  i did when I had the 2220B it does not drive them through the headphone jack. It will drive the LCD2 not the HE6


----------



## Skylab

Yeah the power from the headphone outs of those receivers are very different in terms of power output.  The 2220 outputs 20 wpc into 8 ohms from its speaker outs.  The 2275 is 75 wpc.  That's more than 3x! And so it will be 3x as powerful from its headphone out as well, since the headphone outs in these receivers are just taken from the main power amp via a dropping resistor.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quick question for you guys. I have a Pioneer SX-850 and it hisses throughout the volume range. I noticed that if I engage the high filter, the hiss disappears completely. Too bad as it makes the sound anemic. Is there a way to get rid of the hiss completely or it just the nature of this receiver?


----------



## Rawrbington

good stuff guys thankyou


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Quick question for you guys. I have a Pioneer SX-850 and it hisses throughout the volume range. I noticed that if I engage the high filter, the hiss disappears completely. Too bad as it makes the sound anemic. Is there a way to get rid of the hiss completely or it just the nature of this receiver?


 

 De-oxid it all controller!


----------



## Skylab

AuralRelations that sounds like your 850 has a problem.  It should not do that.  Could be something relatively simple, but it could be something more major like a problem with the output transistors.  If its a piece you are fond of, I would get it looked at.
   
  One question first - when you say it hisses, what does it hiss with? Everything? Just headphones but not speakers? Or just certain headphones ? And if so, which?


----------



## AuralRelations

It hisses without any music playing.  I gave it a really good cleaning with DeOxit and that got rid of the scratchy pots but the hiss remains. It hisses with both speakers and headphones, though it's more noticeable with headphones.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> It hisses without any music playing.  I gave it a really good cleaning with DeOxit and that got rid of the scratchy pots but the hiss remains. It hisses with both speakers and headphones, though it's more noticeable with headphones.


 

 Did you de-oxit the high filter pot and other function pots? Sometimes the source selector and similar pots will produce distortion.


----------



## musicman59

cifani090 said:


> Put rare in front of something, and i have to look further into it. What do you mean M20's?



Yes, my favorite A/D/S speakers are the M20 and their bigger sister M30 but they were not many of them produced specially of the M30. They are beautiful and sound great but you need high current amplification to really drive them correctly.


----------



## AuralRelations

Yes, I cleaned out all the switches and pots. I even cleaned the RCA jacks. I'll have to find someone in the Bay Area to take a look at it for me.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Yes, I cleaned out all the switches and pots. I even cleaned the RCA jacks. I'll have to find someone in the Bay Area to take a look at it for me.


 

 If you have other power amp, you can separate the pre and power of 850 to see which part has problem. My sa-9100 has this problem too, the transisters and resisters in pre-amp go bad. Hope you can solve it cheaply!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Yes, my favorite A/D/S speakers are the M20 and their bigger sister M30 but they were not many of them produced specially of the M30. They are beautiful and sound great but you need high current amplification to really drive them correctly.


 

 I looked them us yesterday, and no hurt feelings intended, but are they these?
   

   
  And this really should be moved to the Vintage Speaker Owner thread.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody got experience with a pioneer sx 1050?
  how's its hp jack?
  im trying to decide between another older pioneer or a marantz
  whats a fair price?
  above or below 500$?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah the power from the headphone outs of those receivers are very different in terms of power output.  The 2220 outputs 20 wpc into 8 ohms from its speaker outs.  The 2275 is 75 wpc.  That's more than 3x! And so it will be 3x as powerful from its headphone out as well, since the headphone outs in these receivers are just taken from the main power amp via a dropping resistor.


 


 Hmmmm, has anyone tried this?
  The answer really depends on the voltage gain of the pre amp and power amp in these two receivers.
  They may actually have the same amount of gain.
 I don't actually know...............I'm just thinking out loud.
   
  This is an interesting thread!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody got experience with a pioneer sx 1050?
> how's its hp jack?
> im trying to decide between another older pioneer or a marantz
> whats a fair price?
> above or below 500$?


 

 I just traded my sx-1050 for Marantz 2325. SX-1050 is just smaller version of SX-1250, the only important difference is that sx-1250 has engraved letters and sx-1050 has printed letters.  The models higher than sx-950 share the same design.
   
  I do believe the price is around $400 (at least in my local area).


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Hmmmm, has anyone tried this?
> The answer really depends on the voltage gain of the pre amp and power amp in these two receivers.
> They may actually have the same amount of gain.
> I don't actually know...............I'm just thinking out loud.
> ...


 

 When I said 3x the power I was not talking about gain, I was talking about output power.  Sure, they might have the same gain, but that doesn't mean they would output the same amount of power, since the power amps are of different capability, even if the preamps happen to provide the same amount of gain.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





skylab said:


> When I said 3x the power I was not talking about gain, I was talking about output power.  Sure, they might have the same gain, but that doesn't mean they would output the same amount of power, since the power amps are of different capability, even if the preamps happen to provide the same amount of gain.


 
   
  Awright then, that's what I was trying to say.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Obviously the 75 Watt would swing more voltage.
  I guess the headphone jack has way too much output impedance to drive the HE-6.
  Just my best guess.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> I looked them us yesterday, and no hurt feelings intended, but are they these?
> 
> 
> 
> And this really should be moved to the Vintage Speaker Owner thread.


 
  Yes, this is the M20. The ones I like are finish in rosewood. Behind the grille is the typical ADS midrange and dome tweeter and inside the cabinet it has 2 8" drivers for the bass section. 
   
  Here is a copy of the M30 brochure.
  http://www.sportsbil.com/ads/m-30-brochure.pdf
  It is not very clear. It has 2 of the same midrange drivers and same tweeter as the M20 and at the bottom it has 2 10" drivers inside for the bass. The center column is finish in rosewood. I have been looking for a pair of these for at least 12 years and have not been able to find it. I listen to them back on 1996 and fell in love with them,
   
  Go to this page and in page 5 of the gallery at the bottom right you will see a better picture of the M30 and 3 pictures of the M20 in rosewood.
  http://www.adsspeakersservice.com/#!gallery


----------



## Maverickmonk

Back on the subject of amps: I've got about 50 various components (mostly electrolytic capacitors, some film caps, and a couple transistors and a relay) heading towards me right now. Gonna be doing a complete resto on my 2245. One thing I don't have is a power button.  mine has an ugly toggle switch...
   
  Does anyone have an extra pushbutton cover lying around for a 22xx Marantz?
   
  Also, I saw a picture of a 2238 blackface yesterday. I think I'm in love.


----------



## livewire

Ebay is your friend.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Always compare with what is inside your unit before buying.
  If it looks different, then it probably is. You cant believe everything these sellers tell you.
   
  Three things to check are 1) the switch mounting arrangement, 2) also the switch shaft mating to the mounting hole on the knob.
  Is the knob hole cross shaped?, or round, or square?, is it the same diamter / size as the shaft?
  3) and lastly,  the number of contacts (wire solder points) on the power switch. 
  (more contacts are ok if there is room for a slightly longer power switch inside your chassis, less contacts is not ok.)
   
  In the case of the switch I listed below, it is a new "universal" replacement item.
  Used original switches for your unit come up for sale from time to time, but may be worn out.
  You takes your chances with this stuff.
   
  Knob (may not work with a 22XX series unit?) -  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-2330B-power-button-knob-/150600693087?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item231080355f
   
  Knob (for a 4240, but most likely the same as what should be on your 2240. It also matches the new switch I listed below. Knob not cheap at $15 shipped.) - 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-4240-Receiver-1-Switch-Knob-Parts-/130497549354?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e6242942a
   
  Switch -  http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MARANTZ-POWER-SWITCH-PREMIUM-ORIGINAL-QUALITY-/400261597972?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d31734b14
  ($28 - ouch!)


----------



## WarriorAnt

Well all the packing and shipping hints and tips everyone gave to me seems to have worked!   I had a Yamaha CR-820 sitting around the house lonely and not ever getting into the lineup so I sent it to a friend of mine who would care for it more than I would.   I first wrapped the receiver in a few layers of bubble wrap and then I used a double ply cardboard box which I cut up to make the inside box with.  I configured the double ply around the receiver to make a tight box then I got a much larger box and filled the bottom with a very large amount of peanuts I had. placed plastic over them so they would not move and then put the receiver on top.  For the sides and top I crumpled tight a lot of NYT's I had and packed them in until everything was very tight and the receiver could not move.  I taped up the outside box to close all the seams and I ran tape down the side and corners just in case they might split.   Then I shook the box and nothing moved.  I had my cocoon ready to ship.  The receiver made it to its destination safely through 4 days of UPS shipping and is now in the hands of its new owner.   Thanks for all the tips everyone!


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Well all the packing and shipping hints and tips everyone gave to me seems to have worked!   I had a Yamaha CR-820 sitting around the house lonely and not ever getting into the lineup so I sent it to a friend of mine who would care for it more than I would.   I first wrapped the receiver in a few layers of bubble wrap and then I used a double ply cardboard box which I cut up to make the inside box with.  I configured the double ply around the receiver to make a tight box then I got a much larger box and filled the bottom with a very large amount of peanuts I had. placed plastic over them so they would not move and then put the receiver on top.  For the sides and top I crumpled tight a lot of NYT's I had and packed them in until everything was very tight and the receiver could not move.  I taped up the outside box to close all the seams and I ran tape down the side and corners just in case they might split.   Then I shook the box and nothing moved.  I had my cocoon ready to ship.  The receiver made it to its destination safely through 4 days of UPS shipping and is now in the hands of its new owner.   Thanks for all the tips everyone!


 

 Nice job! I'm always excited when something makes it in one piece.


----------



## cifani090

I have a major problem with my system right now! Im too lazy to retype it, so look here.


----------



## winkyeye

Hey guys when it comes to vintage receivers, is the headphone output affected by the WPC power? For example, will an 80WPC receiver have a better, more dynamic headphone out when compared to a 40WPC receiver from the same company?


----------



## Skylab

For the majority of vintage receivers, Amy improvement in the amp section will 100% carry over to the headphone section, yes.  That said, if the only change is more power, and if the headphones you are using don't need more power, then you might not notice any benefit.  However, just for example, the SX-1280 and SX-1980 has many improvements over all the other SX-xx80 receivers, not just more power.


----------



## winkyeye

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For the majority of vintage receivers, Amy improvement in the amp section will 100% carry over to the headphone section, yes.  That said, if the only change is more power, and if the headphones you are using don't need more power, then you might not notice any benefit.  However, just for example, the SX-1280 and SX-1980 has many improvements over all the other SX-xx80 receivers, not just more power.


 

 Ah I see, I'm just trying to decide from the Kenwood series, the KR4070 - 40WPC (150$), KR7600 - 80WPC ($350), and the KR9600 - 160WPC ($500) to drive my LCD-2s. These are all pretty measly in comparison to the Pioneers that you've listed but I was wondering how they would stack up against dedicated HPAs like the Lyr, EF5, and the WA6.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody have any experience with the vintage Yamahas?  like a 1020/2020/3020 ect?
  man they're sexy.

   
  also im interested in maybe a pioneer sx 880 or 950,
  any ideas or guesses about the output impedances for phones?
 needing a good receiver for low impedance cans and perhaps orthos
   
  also any thoughts on a Marantz 2245 in nice condition for 300$?  is that price too high?


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody have any experience with the vintage Yamahas?  like a 1020/2020/3020 ect?
> man they're sexy.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey there,
   
  We meet again I see!
  I have a 2020, it's been on permanent loan to my mother for the past 20 years.
  I haven't heard it in maybe 5-10 years but I remember it had a great sounding tuner.  I seem to remember that the headphone jack has a rather high output impedance.
  When driving speakers it had a nice mellow sound but it was not a tight, driving dynamic sound.
  I've been thinking about borrowing off my mother and having a play with it again.
   
  Cheers,
  C.


----------



## Skylab

Those Yammies are supposedly great sounding but contain a healthy number of unobtanium parts, and so if they fail, they can be nice looking doorstops.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> Hey there,
> 
> We meet again I see!
> I have a 2020, it's been on permanent loan to my mother for the past 20 years.
> ...


 
  oh nice.  i love the look and they are supposed to have a nice sound.
   
   
  on the yamaha subject i think i just messed up my A S500 integrated.
   
  i was listening to it and using my beyer 770 pro 80s.
  i had it also playing through the speakers.
  i unplugged the pro 80s and then a couple minutes later plugged in my 990 600 ohm and all of a sudden the speakers and audio out of the cans got really staticy sounding and distorted.
  and now it just sounds that way.
   
  what did i do?!?!?
  =(
  
  and now that i think about it this is the 2nd time in the last few months i've gotten this funny behavior from an amp with my 990/600s plugged into it.
   
  but they still sound fine.
  hmmm
   
  oh yeah and after unplugging  and restijng for a half hour it sounds normal again...


----------



## Maverickmonk

rawrbington said:


> anybody have any experience with the vintage Yamahas?  like a 1020/2020/3020 ect?
> man they're sexy.
> 
> 
> ...




The 2245 is a great piece, but 300I is high,unless its just been serviced by a pro, recapped and is in decent cosmetic condition. Low to mid 200's is more fair I think for an average condition piece.


----------



## livewire

I agree.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh nice.  i love the look and they are supposed to have a nice sound.
> 
> 
> on the yamaha subject i think i just messed up my A S500 integrated.
> ...


 


  Sounds to me like your amp doesn't like 600 ohm loads.  But if this also happened with a regular headphone amp designed to accommodate 600 ohm loads, then maybe there is a short somewhere, somehow in your 990/600?


----------



## Rawrbington

i wish i could explain it.
  i think you may be right about a short somewhere in the beyers.
   
  also im about to go look at a Yammy CR 620 for 75 bucks.
  depending on how it sounds and looks i may pick it up


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i wish i could explain it.
> i think you may be right about a short somewhere in the beyers.
> 
> also im about to go look at a Yammy CR 620 for 75 bucks.
> depending on how it sounds and looks i may pick it up


 


  Grab it, you can't go wrong if it works.


----------



## Rawrbington

just talked to him he said he's had it since he was 9.  said he's retired and now restores that stuff.  went through his list of stuff for sale and i wish i could afford his pioneer 1250 or  marantz 2325.
  he's also got a cr 640 for 110$
  and a marantz 2245 for 300$
   
  the yammies are more tempting because of the monies.


----------



## Meewoo

I would suggest that you go a bigger Yammy, at least 1020 and higher.  I have cr-820 and cr-1020, the building quality is totally different. CR-1020 weights ton and more parts in box. CR-820 is light and spare in box. But I must confess that they sounds no difference, or I can't tell the difference. If you can find TOTL CA, then that will be different story.
   
  The guy seems asking a bit higher for his stuff to me.


----------



## Rawrbington

hows the HP jack on your 820?
   
  are those prices really high?
  its hard around here to know whats high and whats not.
  my only resource is ebay and the likes.  and there you've got shipping and don't get to hear and fiddle with it first.
  i wish i had the  luxury of lots of people having restored vintage receivers for sale in my area.
   
  im on the 620 or 640 probably
  especially if i can get the 640 for 100$


----------



## Meewoo

The headphone ports are very good for either Cr-820 and CR-1020. And they all have two ports, very handy sometimes. They can drive AKG Q-701, K-240  and Sennheiser HD-580 without problem.
   
  Yes, the price definitely depends on location. I have seen CR-1020 on ePay  around $110 plus shipping, though the wooden case has scratch and dings. Bring your headphones with you to test Yammy, I think 620 is better than 640 since CR-x40 line has unobtainuim parts. If you feel the price a little high, you can look for Nikko or Technics (focus on integrated amp, receivers are not that good). The small players' prices are lower than big players'.
   
  Of course, only you can tell whether the price is fair or not. Enjoying music is priceless!


----------



## Rawrbington

good info Meewoo i appreciate it.
  im gonna take my 650s and maybe my 770 pro 80s to give the receivers a listen.
   
  probably won't take my 990/600s because of the problem described a few posts up.
  don't want em to fry somebody elses stuff lol


----------



## subzer0

I was looking at some indexes of vintage equipment:
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/mindex.html
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/pindex.html
   
  In regards to receivers, what is meant when it says, "Group 1, Group 2, Group 3, Quad Receivers"?
   
  Are Quad receivers the "best?"  Personally, I have a 2270, and its amazing.  I really can't imagine how awesome the real high end would be...something like a SX-1280, the SX-1980 looks ridiculous...and quite frankly, this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen:
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/2385_blk.html


----------



## Skylab

"Quad" receivers are most definitely NOt "The Best".  It just means they had Quadrophonic capability, which today is a completely useless feature.  So I would stick to stereo only vintage receivers, personally.
   
  The 2270 is a great receiver!


----------



## subzer0

Was quadrophonic capability a big deal in the 1970's?


----------



## Skylab

Briefly it was, yes.  But ultimately it failed.  It was almost exclusively for music, and of course what ultimately made surround sound take off was movies, not music, really.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> Was quadrophonic capability a big deal in the 1970's?


 

 I remember a friend of my brothers buying a complete quad system around 1971 or 1972.  Almost everyone made fun of him.  No one seemed to believe in it.  I was hopeful though, I mean why not, I didn't understand why the two speaker paradigm had to be the final stage in sound reproduction. But I guess the whole two ears two speakers view was just too strong a viewpoint for everyone.  Also there where many who felt the audio manufacturers were just trying to sell more equipment to people.


----------



## livewire

Boy-O-Boy that black 2385 is a looker! *WANT!*


----------



## subzer0

Yeah, its ******* awesome.
   
  Too bad finding one is next to impossible, would probably cost a ton even if one did.


----------



## livewire

Yup!
  Rarer than hen's teeth....


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





livewire said:


> Boy-O-Boy that black 2385 is a looker! *WANT!*


 

 I know! It's the only type of Marantz ill own...
   
  Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> Yeah, its ******* awesome.
> 
> Too bad finding one is next to impossible, would probably cost a ton even if one did.


 

 Somewhat, there are people on AudioKarma that will sell them for $500-1000.


----------



## Rawrbington

i went and spent a few hours with this guy who had the yammies and marantz' for sale.  he also had some macintosh ads old jbl and norman labs speakers for sale too.  anyways i listened to a lot of his stuff and ended up coming home with the yamaha cr 640.  sounds great through speakers and the hp jack is nice if not a little too much.  not sure if it just doesn't have big resistors in there or what.  but 2 on the dial (9 oclock) is loud and 3 (10 oclock) is  deafening.
  he said it was his first stereo.  has had it 30 some odd years.  excellent condition.
   
  i think it will be my bedroom speaker driver and in a month or two may try some LCD2's on it.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice!


----------



## Rawrbington

any reason i shouldn't put the woo on top of it?
   
  ohh and could i preamp the yammy with my wa2's pre amp?
  can you do that with receivers like these?


----------



## Skylab

As long as you are not blocking any vents you can put the Woo on top.
   
  I would actually put the Woo in a tape loop of the receiver.  That way you can choose the sources on the receiver, and you can listen to the Woo for headphones from any source.  If you wanted the Woo to "color" the sound, then you would select the tape input where you had run the Woo's preamp outs, and OU would hear the effect of having the Woo in the circuit versus just the receiver (thought the receiver's speaker outs, that is).


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i went and spent a few hours with this guy who had the yammies and marantz' for sale.  he also had some macintosh ads old jbl and norman labs speakers for sale too.  anyways i listened to a lot of his stuff and ended up coming home with the yamaha cr 640.  sounds great through speakers and the hp jack is nice if not a little too much.  not sure if it just doesn't have big resistors in there or what.  but 2 on the dial (9 oclock) is loud and 3 (10 oclock) is  deafening.
> he said it was his first stereo.  has had it 30 some odd years.  excellent condition.
> 
> i think it will be my bedroom speaker driver and in a month or two may try some LCD2's on it.


 

 Good find and nice setting!!

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> As long as you are not blocking any vents you can put the Woo on top.
> 
> I would actually put the Woo in a tape loop of the receiver.  That way you can choose the sources on the receiver, and you can listen to the Woo for headphones from any source.  If you wanted the Woo to "color" the sound, then you would select the tape input where you had run the Woo's preamp outs, and OU would hear the effect of having the Woo in the circuit versus just the receiver (thought the receiver's speaker outs, that is).


 
  x2!!!


----------



## subzer0

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Somewhat, there are people on AudioKarma that will sell them for $500-1000.


 


  ....my poor wallet!


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i went and spent a few hours with this guy who had the yammies and marantz' for sale.  he also had some macintosh ads old jbl and norman labs speakers for sale too.  anyways i listened to a lot of his stuff and ended up coming home with the yamaha cr 640.  sounds great through speakers and the hp jack is nice if not a little too much.  not sure if it just doesn't have big resistors in there or what.  but 2 on the dial (9 oclock) is loud and 3 (10 oclock) is  deafening.
> he said it was his first stereo.  has had it 30 some odd years.  excellent condition.
> 
> i think it will be my bedroom speaker driver and in a month or two may try some LCD2's on it.


 

 Where are you located? I wouldn't mind checking out what he has.
  
  Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> ....my poor wallet!


 

 I'll recover


----------



## Skylab

There is a gorgeous looking Yamaha CR-2020 for sale on classicaudio.com right now...$699...looks nice! Tempting, but I cannot buy another big receiver...no way...


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Where are you located? I wouldn't mind checking out what he has.


 

 oh im sure a long ways from you.  okc.  not a very strong audiophile scene here unfortunately.
   
  what do you guys mean by tape loop?
  i would run from digital link III to the woo, then from the woo to the yamahas tape in?  and then what?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what do you guys mean by tape loop?
> i would run from digital link III to the woo, then from the woo to the yamahas tape in?  and then what?


 

 Tape Loop is tape in and tape out. What Skylab suggest is that you connect your woo to "tape out", and connect your source to any input of your receiver. When you want to listen to your Woo, you can just unplug your headphone from your receiver and plug to you Woo directly. You don't need to change source, since Woo always get signal from receivers. "Tape out" always put out the source (AM, FM or Aux) you select from your receiver.


----------



## Rawrbington

ohhhh
  nice.
  so i don't need a splitter for the RCA cables from dac to woo and yamaha?
  
  in the loop i connect tape out to the woo, will the yamaha affect the sound and tone of the woo or is it basically just passing the signal untouched through the yamaha?
   
  its got a tape 1 and tape 2 rec and Pb outputs. i think they're outputs.
  and then on the front it has REC OUT selector and theres aux phono tuner and tape 1 ----->2 and 2---->1
  what do i want to do here?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh im sure a long ways from you.  okc.  not a very strong audiophile scene here unfortunately.
> 
> what do you guys mean by tape loop?
> i would run from digital link III to the woo, then from the woo to the yamahas tape in?  and then what?


 

 I wont be down there very soon. You could just run an RCA cable from the Woo to the DL 3, depending on what inputs it has, or the other way around with the RCA from DL 3 to Yamaha.


----------



## Wharfrat

meewoo said:


> Tape Loop is tape in and tape out. What Skylab suggest is that you connect your woo to "tape out", and connect your source to any input of your receiver. When you want to listen to your Woo, you can just unplug your headphone from your receiver and plug to you Woo directly. You don't need to change source, since Woo always get signal from receivers. "Tape out" always put out the source (AM, FM or Aux) you select from your receiver.


 


 Thanks for the enlightenment...had a bit of a mind-wrassle translating the initial concept done in Skylab-speak (no insult intended, my good man) into actionable terms...I think this will give me some opportunity to experiment with combinations using a DVD-A player (for now) as a source connected to one of my receivers. I wanted to use my lonesome EF5 in conjunction with music videos while having the speakers at the ready should I decide to shoo the cats out of the room (just kidding...).  In essence, I could use either the headphone out from either a receiver or a dedicated HP amp and still be able to rock the room. Cool.  Eventually I'll settle on a multi-format universal player and stay glued to the Barcalounger, universal remote surgically implanted in my hand.
   
  Now to find the headphone that does it all....


----------



## Rawrbington

im really impressed with the detail this yammy has.
  its a little more sterile sounding than the wa2 with my 990/600 but its pretty impressive. 
  the only problem i have is it get SO LOUD AT 2 ON THE DIAL.
  YES IM YELLING BECAUSE ITS TOO LOUD.
  hopefully that means some he 500s will play nicely with it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  i was apprehensive. its main purpose was a cheap entry to orthos since my woo prob wont get it done. and i figured it would have the power for the orthos but i'd be missing out on the details soundstage and dynamics of my woo.
   
  it may not have the dynamics, but its got the detail.  not sure aoubt the soundstage yet.
   
  and i love the dim greenish lights on the silver face.
  reminds me of when i was 6 and my dad was rocking his stereo


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh nice.  i love the look and they are supposed to have a nice sound.
> 
> 
> on the yamaha subject i think i just messed up my A S500 integrated.
> ...


 


 Could be you have a bad connection somewhere, you'll get those problems with old amps.
  My mother's CR-2020 used to drop out every now and then.
  Maybe it still does, like I said, I haven't used it in years.
  An amp like that shouldn't have any problems driving a high impedance phone like 990s, I used to plug a pair of 2,000 ohm Sennheiser HD242s into it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 No problems! And that's not a typo, they really are 2,000 ohm cans!
  Sounds like there's a bad connection in the DT990s????


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is a gorgeous looking Yamaha CR-2020 for sale on classicaudio.com right now...$699...looks nice! Tempting, but I cannot buy another big receiver...no way...


 


  Sure you can


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Sure you can


 


  LOL, Frank!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> ohhhh
> nice.
> so i don't need a splitter for the RCA cables from dac to woo and yamaha?
> 
> ...


 

 Hope you already figure it out!!
   
  "Rec" is tape out. I checked my CR-820 again and know your situation. Suppose your source is CD player, you connect to aux with RCA cable, then you can connect your Woo to tape 2 rec out with another RCA cable, and choose rec out to aux. The CD signal now can goes through pre-amp and power-amp parts of receiver, AND it also goes directly to tape 2 rec out. So your woo also receives the 'supposed to be uncolored" signal from tape 2 rec out.  I don't think the normal signals from rec out are colored, but phono signal should be amplified and may colored buy receiver. Some low end receivers don't have rec out selector, so tape out is always opened to the input you select.
   
  Yeah, Yammy is very detailed, "natural sound" is their house sound. Enjoy!!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL, Frank!


 


  I think you should go for CR-3020!!! 2020 is too small for you!


----------



## Skylab

Yes, a 3020 would be very nice indeed!


----------



## subzer0

is there a reason why everything costs twice as much as it should on classic audio?  $900 for a marantz 2275 is kind of crazy.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> is there a reason why everything costs twice as much as it should on classic audio?  $900 for a marantz 2275 is kind of crazy.


 


  Well, sort of.  classicaudio.com inspects, fixes, and warranties everything they sell. Look at that 2275 you used as an example - they rebuilt and recapped the amp boards.  And it comes with a 60 day full and 2 year limited warranty.
   
  I have never purchased anything from them so I have no clue how well the things they sell actually work, but based on the pictures, and their reputation, I get it.  Sure, you can buy a 2275 on eBay for 40-70% less than what they are asking, but you get no warranty and almost certainly SOME warts.  It's just a question of what route you want to go.


----------



## subzer0

i guess it depends on if you know a good repairman or not...i know a GREAT one who is very reasonable with his pricing.  otherwise, you are really paying a ridiculous premium for their work.  i bet they do really good work, but their prices are very steep (and dont get me wrong, i am all for spending lots of money on audio equipment).
   
  they have a sold pioneer sx-1250 that went for $1500.  if i had the money, i could buy this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-SX-1250-Receiver-/120785977219?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item1c1f67bf83#ht_500wt_1413 probably haggle the price down a bit as theres no action on it, and have my guy look at it/restore for anywhere from $75-$200 depending on its condition.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah if you know a great local repair guy who doesn't have a huge backlog, then I wouldn't buy from them either.  We have some great rebuild guys here like MarkTheFixer, but he has an 18 month wait list, and there are repair only places like Deltronics, but they don't do general recap type stuff, just "get it back working" type jobs.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> i guess it depends on if you know a good repairman or not...i know a GREAT one who is very reasonable with his pricing.  otherwise, you are really paying a ridiculous premium for their work.  i bet they do really good work, but their prices are very steep (and dont get me wrong, i am all for spending lots of money on audio equipment).
> 
> they have a sold pioneer sx-1250 that went for $1500.  if i had the money, i could buy this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-SX-1250-Receiver-/120785977219?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item1c1f67bf83#ht_500wt_1413 probably haggle the price down a bit as theres no action on it, and have my guy look at it/restore for anywhere from $75-$200 depending on its condition.


 

 I was just talking to the guy who bought my Sansui 2500 speakers and his friend found a huge Pioneer receiver "100 something watts, the really big one" and he paid $10 as it was sitting in his neighbors closet. He said he'd pay 10 times what we paid for it, but he would sell it to his friend. He said it was because he's a picker and he found a guitar and sold it for $7000. Im also pretty amazed at the prices of 1250's as i got mine for $450. But it is ebay after all.


----------



## Rawrbington

ok i think i have this done correctly.
  i have the dac going to aux in on the yamaha.  and then rca from the tape rec out 1 to input 1 on the woo.
  its working.
  i even works when the yamaha is powered off.
   
  is this safe for my woo?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, totally safe for the Woo.  I am a little surprised it works when the Yamaha is off, but that's a bonus


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, totally safe for the Woo.  I am a little surprised it works when the Yamaha is off, but that's a bonus


 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Rawrbington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> i have the dac going to aux in on the yamaha.  and then rca from the tape rec out 1 to input 1 on the woo.
> its working.
> i even works when the yamaha is powered off.
> ...


 
  When using normal source, the rec out is completely pass through. If it's phono signal, you have to power the receiver up so that phono signals are amplified.


----------



## Rawrbington

you guys are awesome.
  thanks for the help.
  great stuff


----------



## subzer0

in other news, my he-6 is on its way...i hope my 2270 is ready to do some work.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Got the 2245 working. Full recap on the power board, the main output capacitors, phono amp, and pre-amp/ tone control. All that's left is the mains (only 2 small capacitors), and the radio boards, which don't matter since I don't use the radio.
  Polished up the outside all nice and shiney, but I still need to find an original powerswitch to replace the toggle switch the previous owner installed. Maybe blue LED's this summer too, when I do the switch, capacitors, and adjust all the currents and such to spec. Sounds soooo sweet now, I see why these things sell so well on ebay and such. beautiful sound, both through my speakers and my AKG Sextetts. Loving it


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Got the 2245 working. Full recap on the power board, the main output capacitors, phono amp, and pre-amp/ tone control. All that's left is the mains (only 2 small capacitors), and the radio boards, which don't matter since I don't use the radio.
> Polished up the outside all nice and shiney, but I still need to find an original powerswitch to replace the toggle switch the previous owner installed. Maybe blue LED's this summer too, when I do the switch, capacitors, and adjust all the currents and such to spec. Sounds soooo sweet now, I see why these things sell so well on ebay and such. beautiful sound, both through my speakers and my AKG Sextetts. Loving it


 

 Very nice unit, what did you polish it with?


----------



## Maverickmonk

I just cleaned it with a sponge and some dawn dish soap, and a very small amount of ceramibrite (cleaner for glass stovetops). Didn't want to try anything heavier for fear of taking the letters off. The JVC turntable however I went at with some Barkeeper's Friend


----------



## Shmitty

So rather then getting a dedicated headphone amp I've decided to go this route, how do you guys think a Pioneer SX-434 would drive a pair of Sennheiser HD650's? I'm still trying to decide on a DAC as well, would something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/WM8740-x2-DIR9001-USB-input-DAC-kit-Power-Transformer-/160614443734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25655dead6 be a good buy?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





shmitty said:


> So rather then getting a dedicated headphone amp I've decided to go this route, how do you guys think a Pioneer SX-434 would drive a pair of Sennheiser HD650's? I'm still trying to decide on a DAC as well, would something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/WM8740-x2-DIR9001-USB-input-DAC-kit-Power-Transformer-/160614443734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25655dead6 be a good buy?


 

 If you don't like "Sennheiser Veil", you'd better try Pionny Sx-x50 or x80 line. IMHO, SX-434 is a bit warm for Senn. You can also try Yammy or Technics integrate. Good luck!!


----------



## WarriorAnt

Sort of off topic but sort of on topic. Hope someone finds this interesting. 
   
  http://audiophilereview.com/the-history-of-high-end-audio.html


----------



## Shmitty

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> If you don't like "Sennheiser Veil", you'd better try Pionny Sx-x50 or x80 line. IMHO, SX-434 is a bit warm for Senn. You can also try Yammy or Technics integrate. Good luck!!


 


 I do like a bit of a base tilt to be honest so would that make the SX-434 more favorable? My audiophile vocabulary would be in the D-(elementary grade) range. Some input on that DAC would be greatly appreciated I'm looking to spend no more then 140 on one and want it delivered before I go demo amps.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> you guys are awesome.
> thanks for the help.
> great stuff


 

 Did you get the owner's manual with your amp?
  If you didn't this may help:
  I found the owners manual for my CR-2020.
  If you like I can scan it for you and e-mail it to you? Or anyone else who is interested.
   
  The manual shows some interesting stuff:
  Headphone jack output impedance is a whopping 330 ohms!  (manual includes a schematic, very fine lines so schematic may not scan very well).
  The input switching network is completely passive which explains why you can use it with your Woo without turning on your Yammy.


----------



## Meewoo

Yamaha Documents http://sportsbil.com/yamaha/


----------



## subzer0

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Got the 2245 working.


 


  Looks great!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





chris j said:


> The manual shows some interesting stuff:
> Headphone jack output impedance is a whopping 330 ohms!  (manual includes a schematic, very fine lines so schematic may not scan very well).
> The input switching network is completely passive which explains why you can use it with your Woo without turning on your Yammy.


 

 wow.  didn't suspect that high.  figured in the 120-220 range,  but i guess thats better than the 540 or whatever some have.  whats the deal with orthos not being as particular with the output impedance of the amp?
   
  it looks like the schematic for the 640 shows 1 220 resistor for positive and negaitve?  on each headphone jack(2)?
  so does that mean 220 per or 440 or 880?!?!
   


  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yamaha Documents http://sportsbil.com/yamaha/


 

 awesome thanks!
   
   
  with the "tape loop" using the yam as a pass through to the woo, i can't tell if the sound is depricated a little bit.  maybe just a hair of the warmth or bottom end is missing.  and maybe the highs are a tiny bit sharper.
  this could be 1 of 3 things.
  1. my imagination
  2. the second rca cable i have is the worst cheapest piece of crap availble
  3. a tiny bit of signal is being lost in the yamaha pass through.


----------



## Skylab

With Otrthos, damping factor is a complete non issue, so only the delivered power matters, not any consideration of impedance mismatch resulting in a poor damping factor.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> wow.  didn't suspect that high.  figured in the 120-220 range,  but i guess thats better than the 540 or whatever some have.  whats the deal with orthos not being as particular with the output impedance of the amp?
> 
> it looks like the schematic for the 640 shows 1 220 resistor for positive and negaitve?  on each headphone jack(2)?
> so does that mean 220 per or 440 or 880?!?!


 


 220 ohms for left, 220 ohms for right so the output impedance is 220 ohms.
  I have no idea why they put in such a high value resistor...........pointless.
  What if you are using a 32 ohm Grado?
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> With Otrthos, damping factor is a complete non issue, so only the delivered power matters, not any consideration of impedance mismatch resulting in a poor damping factor.


 

 So may as well have a low output impedance to reduce power loss.


----------



## moodyrn

You're looking at it all wrong. Putting a 220ohm resistor at the headphone out doesn't make the output impedance 220ohms. It's just for lowering the gain since the headphone out is derived from the speaker taps. Actually, if they used a value higher than that, it would be a better match for 32ohm grados. If they only used a 32ohm resistor, grados would be fried. For example if the amp had a power rating of 80wpc at 8ohm, then with the 220ohm resistors the output would still be 2.5-3 full watts which is plenty for anything short an he-6 and grados would probably hiss like crazy without an additional -20db button.
   
  My fisher tube integrated used 330ohm resistors at the headphone out and the speaker out wpc is only 25watts, and the headphone out was still plenty powerful the drive most headphones. But I did swap them out with lower ohm resistors to drive a pair of he-5's I use to have. But I may put the 330ohms back in since I won't be powering anything like that out of the headphone out anymore.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> You're looking at it all wrong. Putting a 220ohm resistor at the headphone out doesn't make the output impedance 220ohms. It's just for lowering the gain since the headphone out is derived from the speaker taps. Actually, if they used a value higher than that, it would be a better match for 32ohm grados. If they only used a 32ohm resistor, grados would be fried. For example if the amp had a power rating of 80wpc at 8ohm, then with the 220ohm resistors the output would still be 2.5-3 full watts which is plenty for anything short an he-6 and grados would probably hiss like crazy without an additional -20db button.


 

 how do you figure out the output impedace of the HP jack?
   
  and what kind of power do i get with the 220 ohm resistors if the rms power is 45 watts?
  think it gets close to 2 watts?
  enough for some he500 or lcd2?


----------



## moodyrn

Somewhere around 1.25 and 1.5. I don't have a lot of experience with the lcd2s, but it may be just enough to drive them. It should be perfectly fine with the he-500. You can always use a multimeter/ ohm meter to measure impedance.


----------



## Rawrbington

my only complaint about hte yamaha is she's a little sketchy when you first plug cans into her.  a channel might break up for a few seconds off and on, or the sound might just be a little scratchy for a few moments.  then... its nice and solid.
   
  not sure what to make of it
   
  right now i have my woo pre amping my yammy.
  and i can get all CRAZY and plug in 3 cans at a time and observe the differences.
  too bad i don't just have 2 pairs of hd 650s or 990 600 ohms.
   
  but i will say the 990/600 out of the yamaha pre'd by the woo is almost comparable to the hd 650s out of the woo.
   
  missing a good bit of detail and accuracy but tonally they are both very pleasing
   
  edit: had to update the opinion on the comparability after an hour of listening


----------



## moodyrn

Sounds like the switches and controls could use a good shot of deoxit or similar contact cleaner.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how do you figure out the output impedace of the HP jack?
> 
> and what kind of power do i get with the 220 ohm resistors if the rms power is 45 watts?
> think it gets close to 2 watts?
> enough for some he500 or lcd2?


 

 Ohm's Law is V = I * R, where V = voltage, I = amperage and R = resistance
   
       or I = V / R is another way to state Ohm's Law.
   
  Then, another useful equation is:  Power (P) = V * I
   
       So, P = V-squared / R if you substitute V / R for I in the equation above.
   
  Let's now do the math on your receiver's headphone jack output..  Your receiver is rated to put out 45 watts (Power) at a load of 8 ohms (resistance) via the speaker outputs.    V-squared = 45 watts * 8 ohms, so V = 19 volts
   
  Now we can calculate the Power output at the headphone jack using V = 19 volts and R = 220 ohms
   
  P = (19*19)/220 = 1.6 watts at the headphone jack.
   
  If I've messed this up, somebody speak up.


----------



## moodyrn

That's a very well explained answer. I didn't want to take the time to all of the math, but my guesstimate wasn't far off.


----------



## BmWr75

Thanks.  That one electronics course in college has come in handy over the years.


----------



## moodyrn

Ha!!!!! Non of my courses have come in handy. Lol


----------



## Shmitty

Well some more trolling on craigslist and I found this

  a Sony STR-6800 SD paid 150 probably could have gotten it a little cheaper but to be honest I could not be happier. A friend is going to stop by next week and we're going to go through it to see what we can do to clean it up a little and complete any service thats needed. My soundblaster 1240 is doing pretty good as a DAC for now but am still looking for some guidance there.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Ha!!!!! Non of my courses have come in handy. Lol


 


  haha.  ain't that the truth.
   
  great info from all of you guys.  greatly appreciated. 
  now i just need to save up the dough for a pair of he-500.
   
  thats a great lookin Sony you got there Shmitty!
  too bad modern stuff doesn't look half as sexty


----------



## Shmitty

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Rawrbington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> thats a great lookin Sony you got there Shmitty!
> too bad modern stuff doesn't look half as sexty


 

 Hey thanks! The lights don't work so it loses some cool points for looks so hopefully my friend can help me with that. HAPPY NEW YEAR YA'LL
  doo doo doooo looking out my back door!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> You're looking at it all wrong. Putting a 220ohm resistor at the headphone out doesn't make the output impedance 220ohms. It's just for lowering the gain since the headphone out is derived from the speaker taps. Actually, if they used a value higher than that, it would be a better match for 32ohm grados. If they only used a 32ohm resistor, grados would be fried. For example if the amp had a power rating of 80wpc at 8ohm, then with the 220ohm resistors the output would still be 2.5-3 full watts which is plenty for anything short an he-6 and grados would probably hiss like crazy without an additional -20db button.
> 
> My fisher tube integrated used 330ohm resistors at the headphone out and the speaker out wpc is only 25watts, and the headphone out was still plenty powerful the drive most headphones. But I did swap them out with lower ohm resistors to drive a pair of he-5's I use to have. But I may put the 330ohms back in since I won't be powering anything like that out of the headphone out anymore.


 

 The output impedance of the CR-640 power amp ICs into a speaker is less than one ohm.
  Yamaha then puts a 220 ohm resisitor in series between the power amp and the headphone jack.
  This makes the output impedance at the headphone jacks approx. 220 ohms.
  It doesn't alter the gain of the amp, it attentuates the signal from the power amp.
  The reason why there are four resistors are:
  two for each headphone jack
  there are two for each headphone jack as one is for right channel, the other is for left channel.
   
  However, you certainly are correct: the 220 ohm resistor limits the output to a 32 ohm Grado.
  Historically, when the CR-640s were released, most headphones were 600 ohms or higher, for example, I used to use a 2,000 can with my CR-2020.
   
  I calculated a few examples below:
  220 ohms goes a long way towards protecting various value cans from frying.  (Slaps forehead!) So there is a point to having a large output impedance on this amp. (slaps forehead again!)
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Ohm's Law is V = I * R, where V = voltage, I = amperage and R = resistance
> 
> or I = V / R is another way to state Ohm's Law.
> 
> ...


 


 The math and formulas are absolutely correct, but we also need to take into account that the 220 ohm is in series with the headphone, so the headphone will get less than 1.6 Watts at clipping.
  If we continue to use your 45 Watt amp example, and use some voltage divider math:
   
  For example, for a 32 ohm Grado:
  V = 19 * 32/(220+32)
     =  2.41 Volts
  P = (2.41 * 2.41)/32
     =   182 milliWatts
   
  For LSD,  60 ohms
  V = 19 * 60/(60 + 220)
     = 4.07 Volts
  P = (4.07 * 4.07)/60
     = 276 milliWatts
   
  For a 600 ohm Beyer:
  V = 19 * 600/(220 + 600)
     =  13.9 Volts
  P = (13.9 * 13.9)/600
     = 322 milliWatts 
   
  For 2,000 ohm 'phones:
  V = 19 * 2000/(2000 +  220)
     =  17,2 Volts
  P = 17.2 * 17.2 / 2000
     =  146 milliWatts
   
  so should be able to drive the LCD-2 to ear bleeding volume.
  you *may* need to lower the headphone jack impedance to drive HiFi Man HE-6, see Moodryn's post above.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  however the headphone jack impedance is very high if that kind of thing concerns you......i.e. a headphone which needs a high damping factor and/or has an impedance which varies with frequency.
   
  Oooops, I almost forgot......Happy New Year!


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





chris j said:


> The output impedance of the CR-640 power amp ICs into a speaker is less than one ohm.
> Yamaha then puts a 220 ohm resisitor in series between the power amp and the headphone jack.
> This makes the output impedance at the headphone jacks approx. 220 ohms.
> It doesn't alter the gain of the amp, it attentuates the signal from the power amp.
> ...


 


 When I had my LCD-2's plugged into my CR-2020, I couldn't get the volume level to 1. It was just too loud. Same thing with the HD800.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> When I had my LCD-2's plugged into my CR-2020, I couldn't get the volume level to 1. It was just too loud. Same thing with the HD800.


 

 I will resist the impulse to ask you if the volume control went to 11!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Did you try pushing in the "Audio Muting" button?  It reduces output by -20 dB which is significant!
 The only other thing I can add to this is that 25-30 years ago my brother and I had:
  1 pair of Sennheiser HD424
  1 pair of AKG K241
  1 pair of Koss headphones that looked kind of like Grados, they had a volume control on each ear!
   
  We would often listen to music at the same time thru the two headphone jacks late at night.
  We never had any problems with excessive volume or getting the right volume with any of those cans.


----------



## Golfnutz

Quote: 





chris j said:


> I will resist the impulse to ask you if the volume control went to 11!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Good idea...
   
  Loudness set to 10 (off), Audio Muting -20 db, Volume is now at 2 (out of 10).
   
  Thanks!


----------



## cifani090

Has anyone here listened to headphone on a big Sansui, like a G-22000 or 33000?


----------



## Meewoo

Never see super big G in this thread. I think Skylab's SX-1980 is the biggest one in this thread.


----------



## Rawrbington

does anyone really own a G 33000?
   
  i bet they go for more than my car


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





golfnutz said:


> Good idea...
> 
> Loudness set to 10 (off), Audio Muting -20 db, Volume is now at 2 (out of 10).
> 
> Thanks!


 


 Hi,
   
  For flat response turn the Loudness knob fully Clockwise.  I always thought it was a weird feature......probably 'cos I never used it!  LOL
   
  C.


----------



## Shmitty

Ya'll are killing me someone give me some opinions on a DAC under 200 dollars for my SRT-6800 as pictured above I'M OPEN TO ABOUT ANYTHING.


----------



## singh

the g22000 and the g33000 have power-pre parts , so i guess the headphone jack on them wont be that powerful.
   
  yeah the sx-1980 might be the biggest , but i doubt its the best sounding, i think the best sounding one here is the au-20000 or the yamaha B1-C1 power pre.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





shmitty said:


> Ya'll are killing me someone give me some opinions on a DAC under 200 dollars for my SRT-6800 as pictured above I'M OPEN TO ABOUT ANYTHING.


 


  You know there is an entire area dedicated to source components, right? But OK, how many and what type of inputs does it need to have?


----------



## treal512

A lot of information here > http://www.head-fi.org/f/7/dedicated-source-components


----------



## Shmitty

I have a post there which hasn't received any attention I'm guessing because I was asking about a vintage receiver for my amp I'm not sure.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





shmitty said:


> I have a post there which hasn't received any attention I'm guessing because I was asking about a vintage receiver for my amp I'm not sure.


 

 I extended an offer to help you 3 posts up...


----------



## Maverickmonk

singh said:


> the g22000 and the g33000 have power-pre parts , so i guess the headphone jack on them wont be that powerful.
> 
> yeah the sx-1980 might be the biggest , but i doubt its the best sounding, i think the best sounding one here is the au-20000 or the yamaha B1-C1 power pre.




I'd wager that between the juggernauts it's mostly which signature you prefer. I mean, they were all top of the line at the time, so the big sansui's, big yammies, and big marantz (2275 or 85), and pioneered all probably sound about as "good" and powerful, just different (not top of the line, but I heard a pioneer 1280 and a marantz 2275, and although the maramtz sounded warmer (and preferable to me), the pioneer sounded just as "good"and to me, just not as to my taste. Then again, i'm no golden ears, i'm 19, not Terribly experienced, and I have a fair bit of tinnitus so ymmv and imho and all that jazz.

Also, taking the time to restore your mid-level amp, or have it restored, sounds way better than an unrestored title amp. My 2245 is like a whole new amp now, and I never plan on getting rid of it (unless I can get a 2252 black faced marantz... those are sexy...)


----------



## subzer0

what other headphones sound great from vintage receivers?


----------



## moodyrn

Ha, depending on what receiver/integrated you have, all of them. Every single iem or can I've tried has sounded great. I've tried vintage headphones such as k240 sextett, k340. I'v tried my jh13pro, and mtpc's and they sounded excellent as well. Also tried some of the big boys such as my he-6 and the lcd-2s, beyer t1's and they sounded excellent. I haven't tried a headphone yet that didn't sound good. Some were better than others on different receivers I had. But they all sounded excellent on all of them I've owned.
   
  My marantz 2325 may be a different story since it's the only one I've owned that don't have a -20db mute button. So my jh13 may be a no go. I'm still in the process of doing some work on it, so I haven't tried them yet.  I've taken about a 1 1/2 week break from it for during the holidays, but I plan to get back to work on it tomorrow. But initial testing has been promising. And I'm really, really liking the way it sounds with my he-6. They now sound lush, romantic, and very smooth and musical. With bass that really kicks you in the gut. This is different from the very neutral sound they had with the pioneer I had, and the slightly warm but still neutral sound I had with the kenwood. It's not fisher warm, but they are really smooth sounding now.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





lou erickson said:


> Yes, old post, but I've just caught up and I can help with this!
> 
> I found:
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know why I didn't see this reply before! Thanks, Lou! This place looks awesome. I'll definitely look him up when I'm in the south bay.


----------



## subzer0

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Ha, depending on what receiver/integrated you have, all of them. Every single iem or can I've tried has sounded great. I've tried vintage headphones such as k240 sextett, k340. I'v tried my jh13pro, and mtpc's and they sounded excellent as well. Also tried some of the big boys such as my he-6 and the lcd-2s, beyer t1's and they sounded excellent. I haven't tried a headphone yet that didn't sound good. Some were better than others on different receivers I had. But they all sounded excellent on all of them I've owned.
> 
> My marantz 2325 may be a different story since it's the only one I've owned that don't have a -20db mute button. So my jh13 may be a no go. I'm still in the process of doing some work on it, so I haven't tried them yet.  I've taken about a 1 1/2 week break from it for during the holidays, but I plan to get back to work on it tomorrow. But initial testing has been promising. And I'm really, really liking the way it sounds with my he-6. They now sound lush, romantic, and very smooth and musical. With bass that really kicks you in the gut. This is different from the very neutral sound they had with the pioneer I had, and the slightly warm but still neutral sound I had with the kenwood. It's not fisher warm, but they are really smooth sounding now.


 

 Allow me to rephrase.  In my case I own the 2270, and while technically, yes, I can put any headphone I want in it, many of them lack great synergy with the Marantz.  While it was only temporary, running my D7000 through the 2270 was not ideal in anyway.  Yes, it sounded cool, and could rock my skull into oblivion if I so desired, but in general, it was VERY bassy, and bass dominated.  My volume knob never exceeded 9:00 o'clock, and I would say the 2270 was too strong for it as a whole.  In fact, I would even go as far to say that from a "serious" standpoint, it was a very flawed setup.
   
  The HE-6 on the other hand, really benefits from all the power that 2270 can throw it.  Instantly, I felt a much better synergy between the two.  Outside of the HE-500, what other headphones really like vintage receivers?  Yes, I could buy the HD-800, T1, or LCD Rev 2/3, but wouldn't those be much better off with a WA22, or the Decware CSP-2?


----------



## Kukuk

Anyone know if the Marantz SM 500 DC is any good? My friend has one he might part with, but I don't really know much about it.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





subzer0 said:


> Allow me to rephrase.  In my case I own the 2270, and while technically, yes, I can put any headphone I want in it, many of them lack great synergy with the Marantz.  While it was only temporary, running my D7000 through the 2270 was not ideal in anyway.  Yes, it sounded cool, and could rock my skull into oblivion if I so desired, but in general, it was VERY bassy, and bass dominated.  My volume knob never exceeded 9:00 o'clock, and I would say the 2270 was too strong for it as a whole.  In fact, I would even go as far to say that from a "serious" standpoint, it was a very flawed setup.
> 
> The HE-6 on the other hand, really benefits from all the power that 2270 can throw it.  Instantly, I felt a much better synergy between the two.  Outside of the HE-500, what other headphones really like vintage receivers?  Yes, I could buy the HD-800, T1, or LCD Rev 2/3, but wouldn't those be much better off with a WA22, or the Decware CSP-2?


 

 I have a Marantz 2265B and it pair very well with HD800, not so with with LCD-2.  Yes, the HD800 is better with WA22 but the Marantz is only fraction of the WA22 cost.


----------



## Skylab

The Marantz sound of the 22xx and 23xx era is a pretty warm, lush sound.  I like it with the HE-6, but much less with the LCD-2/3.  The Pioneers are much better there.


----------



## moodyrn

Agreed. I got the marantz specifically to mate with my he-6. That's the only headphone I prefer the marantz with. With the other headphones I've tried, the pioneer and kenwood I had were better. And with the -20 mute button, they allowed me to use a more variety of cans(except the pioneer with iems. Still hissed with those even with the -20 button engaged). The marantz mates well with neutral sounding cans. Anything warmer than neutral becomes to warm and lush. So it's not as universally good with cans as the kenwood and marantz I had. But I still wouldn't say it sounds bad with the warmer cans. Just not as good as the other brands I had.


----------



## UteroiD

I have nuforce HDP going into my Marantz 2230 which I use with either  HD600s or with B&W speakers.  I think the combination works quite well, although in the future i'm hoping to get a 2275 or something of higher wattage in order to accommodate larger speakers.


----------



## jc9394

you will be surprise on how much power the vintage amp pump out, my 2265B drives the Revel F30 better than Denon 5805 (almost 3x the power of 2265B).


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Agreed. I got the marantz specifically to mate with my he-6. That's the only headphone I prefer the marantz with. With the other headphones I've tried, the pioneer and kenwood I had were better. And with the -20 mute button, they allowed me to use a more variety of cans(except the pioneer with iems. Still hissed with those even with the -20 button engaged). The marantz mates well with neutral sounding cans. Anything warmer than neutral becomes to warm and lush. So it's not as universally good with cans as the kenwood and marantz I had. But I still wouldn't say it sounds bad with the warmer cans. Just not as good as the other brands I had.


 

 Hey, moodryn. Do you find your Pioneer hisses if you have the "High Filter" engaged? I noticed that my Pioneer hisses like you said, even with the mute on, but if I have the high filter engaged, the hiss disappears. Don't know if I need to take it into the shop or not.


----------



## moodyrn

The high filter button did help, but that was at a sacrifice of treble extension and the sound suffered. But, the pioneer is the only one that I've had that can power the he-6 from the headphone out as good as many speaker amps can from the the speaker outs. The marantz drives them decently from the headphone out, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as from the speaker outs. So pigtail is still needed with that.


----------



## cifani090

Im very amazed what i can get for my SX-1250. I bought it for $450 which was fair 8 months ago since i saw them going for $50-100 more. But now i can get $600-900 for mine


----------



## treal512

I got $450 right here for ya


----------



## treal512

I'm loving the HPM-100s I bought on Sunday. Many thanks to the people who helped me via PM with the buying tips. I know these should sound better with Pioneer power, but this Marantz 2275 is doing just fine, tyvm 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 So much so, my LCD-2s are up for sale. Although there's not a direct correlation between the HPM-100s and the sale, there is a small one. I mainly just don't listen to the LCD-2s very much anymore. Then factor in the cost to attend university.. well, you get the idea.
   
  Right now I am listening to Lee Ritenour & Larry Carlton jazz it up on "Larry & Lee" in FLAC.
  I still need stands for these, so I'll post pictures up later. Happy 2012 listening, folks!


----------



## sluker

Congrats on the HPM-100's.
  I am still waiting to get my SX1250 back to se how that combo performs but I find the Toshiba SA7100 pairs quite well with them as well. I also found that getting them up off the ground really tightened up the bass. Plus the crossover recap improved the highs and gave a taller soundstage, definitely worth the $80 in parts.
  
  Quote: 





treal512 said:


> I'm loving the HPM-100s I bought on Sunday. Many thanks to the people who helped me via PM with the buying tips. I know these should sound better with Pioneer power, but this Marantz 2275 is doing just fine, tyvm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

HPM-100's have to be the ULTIMATE college speaker! Congrats.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Congrats on the HPM-100's.
> I am still waiting to get my SX1250 back to se how that combo performs but I find the Toshiba SA7100 pairs quite well with them as well. I also found that getting them up off the ground really tightened up the bass. Plus the crossover recap improved the highs and gave a taller soundstage, definitely worth the $80 in parts.


 

 That is my next line of research (after stands), the recapping, etc. I've also read about putting the HPM-900 midrange into the HPM-100 to improve the sound and tame the forwardness. Lots of fun will be had! How did you go about recapping yours? Was it difficult? Do you have a thread referencing it? I had my HPM-100s off the floor earlier, but I moved my Electro-Voice SP12b speakers out of the room. Since the HPM-100s have been on the floor, I've definitely noticed the bass quality change for the worse. I'm having a really hard time finding something suitable as a stand though :/
   
  Edit: Btw, I am looking forward to your impressions of the SX-1250 when it gets back.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> HPM-100's have to be the ULTIMATE college speaker! Congrats.


 

 Yes! I've been playing them pretty loud. Hopefully I won't have any issues. I've got a great corner apartment


----------



## Skylab

Here is a stand idea that will work great and is easy and cheap to get, if not great looking: two concrete blocks wrapped in a black towel.


----------



## treal512

Suitable, Skylab! Haha! I may just go with something like this for now:

  Although.. if you wrapped the blocks nicely, that wouldn't be so bad.


----------



## sluker

Here is the link for the recap thread, if you find my post on the last page it lists the BOM plus the super tweeter cap missing from the BOM.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120454&page=11
   
  For stands I use the cardboard-cloth covered baskets from Target (7.99 each), they don't raise the speakers all that much but get them off the ground. But they look really clean and do the job for now.


----------



## RexAeterna

cifani090 said:


> Im very amazed what i can get for my SX-1250. I bought it for $450 which was fair 8 months ago since i saw them going for $50-100 more. But now i can get $600-900 for mine




while the 1250 is very nice looking i still find 450 be more then reasonable to be honest. if i was dishing more money i would seriously consider hitting over yamaha or adcom territory instead. might not look as pretty but much better performing power amps. i could get a serviced yamaha mx-1000 for the price of what the 1250 goes for nowadays or even get Adcom GFA-555 for around that price.


----------



## RexAeterna

treal512 said:


> I'm having a really hard time finding something suitable as a stand though :/




Cinder blocks. Cinder blocks not only act like a sponge for absorption, but so dense that standing waves is not able to penetrate and pass through. if your afraid of them not looking pretty,you can always paint them if you want. they're cheap and effective. before even stands existed lot of studios and audiophiles a like used cinder blocks as stands and 100hz bass traps.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


treal512 said:


> Suitable, Skylab! Haha! I may just go with something like this for now:
> 
> Although.. if you wrapped the blocks nicely, that wouldn't be so bad.


 

 If you have real milk crates, still square and unwarped, with "PROPERTY OF DAIRY" stamped on the sides, it will probably be rigid enough. Crate-like plastic bins sold at department stores are not going to be sturdy enough. Basically, if it's not a purpose-built speaker stand and you wouldn't dare jump up and down on it, it won't be sturdy enough.
   
  This is one of those things that sounds too much like fetishistic audio foolery, but rigid speaker stands are easy to accomplish at any price and ensuring the speakers will be just as stable as they would be on the floor is not just a matter of improving the sound but of ensuring your investments don't get knocked over so easily. I think we overemphasize the sound quality aspect sometimes (which is a weird thing to say), but on the other hand, once you're spending enough on a pair of speakers to have to obsess over the price it seems silly to not try to maximize the investment in sound with a comparatively cheap yet appropriate stand.
   
  (*Edit:* As noted before, my office system has a pair of bookshelf speakers sitting on red bricks wrapped in butcher paper. Practicing what I preach.)


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm using these for one of the setups in my house.   7.5" x7.5" cinder blocks from Lowes or Home Depot.   I painted them a soft sky blue and stack them they look great, stack well and are cheap.   Everyone loves the painted look too.


----------



## firev1

Hi, not exactly vintage but is the NAD AV716 counted? Mine is 18 yo and counting and with exception of some plug oxidising and dust (which I took trouble to remove properly) it is working flawlessly with the accompanying tower(or is it floorstanding?) speakers. Very natural and definitely on the warm side. Would like to try it with some of the Hifiman orthos or the Beyer DT880 600 ohms sometime.


----------



## Meewoo

Aha, NAD, lots of people love it and many people hate it due to quality control.
   
  I am a NAD lover, I had NAD 7240pe, 3130, 7020, 310, T743, T761, 2200, and still own 3140, 916, 7400, 2600 and 1300. The 916 is driving my center and 2 surround speakers. And I frequently pull out 3140 to listen. I wouldn't say NAD "very neutral", NAD definitely warmer than vintage Marantz (not to say modern Marantz). Hey but I like the sound since most of them (especially 3140) has very tight bass. If you pair them with warm or dark cans like Sennheiser, the sound is muddy and not enjoyable. 
   
  The modern NAD HT receivers use opamp for headphone port, so it's not good as a headphone amp. Hope your AV716 doesn't have the opamp! Enjoy!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> while the 1250 is very nice looking i still find 450 be more then reasonable to be honest. if i was dishing more money i would seriously consider hitting over yamaha or adcom territory instead. might not look as pretty but much better performing power amps. i could get a serviced yamaha mx-1000 for the price of what the 1250 goes for nowadays or even get Adcom GFA-555 for around that price.


 
  Hey, Rex, the price is decided by supply and demand, not by the quality!!  Look the diamond price, it's legal panzi scheme by monopoly . I don't think normal people will use it once in normal life. But it was labelled "forever" by monopoly, so people have to buy them for love. And I think SX-1250 is far better than diamond!!
   
  Even though I am not a big fan of Pionny, I still think sx-1250 is well worth $450 or more. And rarity also adds value to it.
   
  Some models got hypered, some got ignored. I just won a Yamaha R-9 on ePay for starting bid price $99, I am the only bidder. If I haven't read your input in this thread and have a R-8 to listen, I won't bid on the R-9. If I didn't bid, the seller would have it re-listed again.
   
  I had Adcom GFA-545 ii, but I didn't like the forward sound of adcom. I am listening Yammy M-70 now, and my M-60 will be back from tech very soon, but I picked this power amp up. It sounds sweet (MOSFET) and fantastic. I'll let you guess the brand and model.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> while the 1250 is very nice looking i still find 450 be more then reasonable to be honest. if i was dishing more money i would seriously consider hitting over yamaha or adcom territory instead. might not look as pretty but much better performing power amps. i could get a serviced yamaha mx-1000 for the price of what the 1250 goes for nowadays or even get Adcom GFA-555 for around that price.


 
   
  Well it is thee diamond units that go for more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Hey, Rex, the price is decided by supply and demand, not by the quality!!  Look the diamond price, it's legal panzi scheme by monopoly . I don't think normal people will use it once in normal life. But it was labelled "forever" by monopoly, so people have to buy them for love. And I think SX-1250 is far better than diamond!!
> 
> Even though I am not a big fan of Pionny, I still think sx-1250 is well worth $450 or more. And rarity also adds value to it.
> 
> ...


 

 x2, nice deal but im not sure if i would call it a "deal." Im too lazy to research the unit, but i get worried if im the only bidder especially if i dont truly know its resale value. You can but a unit for $99, but can you sell it to a potential buyer for $99?


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> Anyone know if the Marantz SM 500 DC is any good? My friend has one he might part with, but I don't really know much about it.


 


  Anyone? It comes with a separate pre-amp, the model number for that is (Marantz) 3250.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> Hey, Rex, the price is decided by supply and demand, not by the quality!!  Look the diamond price, it's legal panzi scheme by monopoly . I don't think normal people will use it once in normal life. But it was labelled "forever" by monopoly, so people have to buy them for love. And I think SX-1250 is far better than diamond!!
> 
> Even though I am not a big fan of Pionny, I still think sx-1250 is well worth $450 or more. And rarity also adds value to it.
> 
> ...




so you gotten the R-9? i was actually gonna get that for a back up cause i liked mine so much but decided to upgrade to a better audio interface instead. if you liked the M-70,you should like the R-9. i had a very good tech work on mine and told me the power amp section is very similar to the M-80 power amp from yamaha. the R-9 did sell over 900 bucks when it hit retail in 1985 so not much people bothered buying one. i really love mine. only upgrade i see from it is if i decided to spoil myself and buy a mx-1000 and cx-1000 set lol. the R-9 is only receiver too, to have a true class A power amp section,but be careful. it will get hot. going in class A increases rail voltages and insane amounts of current but out from self experience, Class A will run cool as ice if driving 2ohm nominal speaker loads no problem.

depending on your source,headphone/speaker sensitivity, and how loud you like to listen to music you will be finding yourself using the -20db muting switch a lot, even straight from the front panel headphone out. the variable loudness is very useful but i keep it flat at all times and keep the tone controls/pre-amp section shut off. i gotten my R-9 from the sansui Au-d7 i traded to a local. some people might of found that dumb but i thought i got better end of the deal cause the yamaha totally destroyed the sansui in power and better sound i personally felt.

you are right though. it's supply and demand that counts. the 1250 is a fine receiver and i know of pioneers reputation even to this day. they did pretty good in the HT section of things too with their big Elite receivers at the time. hope you enjoy the R-9. make sure it's brought up to spec as well by having the bias and dc offset set at factory specs. it sound it's best when set at factory specs and will run cooler as well in standard class A/B operation.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> x2, nice deal but im not sure if i would call it a "deal." Im too lazy to research the unit, but i get worried if im the only bidder especially if i dont truly know its resale value. You can but a unit for $99, but can you sell it to a potential buyer for $99?


 
  It's a deal for me. This unit is really that good. Even I haven't get it yet, I have R-8 at home without class A model, and it sounds beautiful. I must confess it sounds better than my CA-2010, I should have my Ca-2010 recapped in the future. Rex will (already did) say good words for this machine soon.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
   


  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> so you gotten the R-9? i was actually gonna get that for a back up cause i liked mine so much but decided to upgrade to a better audio interface instead. if you liked the M-70,you should like the R-9. i had a very good tech work on mine and told me the power amp section is very similar to the M-80 power amp from yamaha. the R-9 did sell over 900 bucks when it hit retail in 1985 so not much people bothered buying one. i really love mine. only upgrade i see from it is if i decided to spoil myself and buy a mx-1000 and cx-1000 set lol. the R-9 is only receiver too, to have a true class A power amp section,but be careful. it will get hot. going in class A increases rail voltages and insane amounts of current but out from self experience, Class A will run cool as ice if driving 2ohm nominal speaker loads no problem.
> depending on your source,headphone/speaker sensitivity, and how loud you like to listen to music you will be finding yourself using the -20db muting switch a lot, even straight from the front panel headphone out. the variable loudness is very useful but i keep it flat at all times and keep the tone controls/pre-amp section shut off. i gotten my R-9 from the sansui Au-d7 i traded to a local. some people might of found that dumb but i thought i got better end of the deal cause the yamaha totally destroyed the sansui in power and better sound i personally felt.
> you are right though. it's supply and demand that counts. the 1250 is a fine receiver and i know of pioneers reputation even to this day. they did pretty good in the HT section of things too with their big Elite receivers at the time. hope you enjoy the R-9. make sure it's brought up to spec as well by having the bias and dc offset set at factory specs. it sound it's best when set at factory specs and will run cooler as well in standard class A/B operation.


 
  I haven't got it yet, just got tracking number earlier. I might have it on Monday or Saturday, I just don't know how USPS handle it. I am happy that you didn't join bidding with me, I wanted to solicit "no bidding" here but decided let the luck run it. This one has remote too, if you want, I can code a Comcast remote for you later. I checked your input both here and AK, you man really a prompter for this model! Hope I can join you in the future after I enjoy it!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> Anyone? It comes with a separate pre-amp, the model number for that is (Marantz) 3250.


 

 I think members here should already chime in if he/she has experience with this model. It seems that not many people follow 80's Marantz since at that time Marantz was controlled by Philips and had no connection with American anymore. Google is your best friends now.


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I think members here should already chime in if he/she has experience with this model. It seems that not many people follow 80's Marantz since at that time Marantz was controlled by Philips and had no connection with American anymore. Google is your best friends now.


 

  
  Google really don't have anything. Specs, but specs really don't mean anything.
   
  I'm sure _someone_ is bound to have used one at some point, and hoping someone can chime in a little info. Even something as vague as saying if Marantz amps from this period are worth using or not.


----------



## ardgedee

AudioKarma would be my first place to ask. It's populated not just by enthusiasts but guys who used to run stores and repair shops back in the day.


----------



## Kukuk

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> AudioKarma would be my first place to ask. It's populated not just by enthusiasts but guys who used to run stores and repair shops back in the day.


 


  Thanks, I'll have to check that out!


----------



## Skylab

That isn't considered a very good period for Marantz.  The opinion of that amp on AudioKarma was pretty low. I don't know about the preamp.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That isn't considered a very good period for Marantz.  The opinion of that amp on AudioKarma was pretty low. I don't know about the preamp.


 

 x2. Marantz in 80's is famous for CD players, not Amps.
   
   


  Quote: 





kukuk said:


> Google really don't have anything. Specs, but specs really don't mean anything.
> 
> I'm sure _someone_ is bound to have used one at some point, and hoping someone can chime in a little info. Even something as vague as saying if Marantz amps from this period are worth using or not.


 

 If you are in tight budget, why not buy a "famous" (well received) model. If you have spare money, you can try the Marantz.It maybe a sleeper.  Besides, it has very cool VU meter and golden finish. If you don't like them, you can use them as decoration.


----------



## Kukuk

Not really looking to buy, it's just my friend has that amp (Well, amp, pre-amp, and tuner), and he's wanting to trade for a mediocre HTIB setup I have. Unless there's something really bad about the Marantz setup, I'm thinking I'll do it.
   
  EDIT: Man, I really want to get on that Audio Karma, but it's got a darn joining queue, so I gotta wait for my account to be approved before I can even search the site. I guess I'll just twiddle my thumbs until I get accepted.


----------



## Rawrbington

question for you vets.
  is it possible for a rca interconnect to sound better than another rca interconnect?
   
  i was using a little tiny small CHEAP (2$) interconnect to run from my woo to my yamaha.
  i was using my better cables to run from DLIII to the woo.
   
  my buddy gave me a monster interconnect.  not a ridiculously expensive cable, but its thickness is 6-7 times that of the cheap one i was using.
   
  im sceptical that the rca interconnects can sound better (perhaps short of  gold).
   
  but after replacing the interconnect with the monster i swear the sound has slightly more dynamics and is just smoother.
   
  is this a placebo?  probably.
  is there any chance at all that i could "hear" those two cables?


----------



## Meewoo

I do believe that crappy RCA cables hinder the audio. But I don't believe $500 cables are worth their asking price. If you listen to vinyl, the cables make more difference especially from TT to phono.


----------



## treal512

Quote:


sluker said:


> Here is the link for the recap thread, if you find my post on the last page it lists the BOM plus the super tweeter cap missing from the BOM.
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120454&page=11
> 
> For stands I use the cardboard-cloth covered baskets from Target (7.99 each), they don't raise the speakers all that much but get them off the ground. But they look really clean and do the job for now.


 

 Many thanks. I will have to check that AK thread out later.


  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> Cinder blocks. Cinder blocks not only act like a sponge for absorption, but so dense that standing waves is not able to penetrate and pass through. if your afraid of them not looking pretty,you can always paint them if you want. they're cheap and effective. before even stands existed lot of studios and audiophiles a like used cinder blocks as stands and 100hz bass traps.


 
   
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm using these for one of the setups in my house.   7.5" x7.5" cinder blocks from Lowes or Home Depot.   I painted them a soft sky blue and stack them they look great, stack well and are cheap.   Everyone loves the painted look too.


 

 Great advice, guys. This coupled with Skylab's input.. I think I may go way of the cinder block! I didn't realize they were so effective and well received. But yes, my initial drawback is because of their looks. WarriorAnt, do you have any pictures of your setup? I'd love to see it.

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> If you have real milk crates, still square and unwarped, with "PROPERTY OF DAIRY" stamped on the sides, it will probably be rigid enough. Crate-like plastic bins sold at department stores are not going to be sturdy enough. Basically, if it's not a purpose-built speaker stand and you wouldn't dare jump up and down on it, it won't be sturdy enough.
> 
> This is one of those things that sounds too much like fetishistic audio foolery, but rigid speaker stands are easy to accomplish at any price and ensuring the speakers will be just as stable as they would be on the floor is not just a matter of improving the sound but of ensuring your investments don't get knocked over so easily. I think we overemphasize the sound quality aspect sometimes (which is a weird thing to say), but on the other hand, once you're spending enough on a pair of speakers to have to obsess over the price it seems silly to not try to maximize the investment in sound with a comparatively cheap yet appropriate stand.
> 
> (*Edit:* As noted before, my office system has a pair of bookshelf speakers sitting on red bricks wrapped in butcher paper. Practicing what I preach.)


 

 Interesting, I was speaking with my dad today and he said the same thing. He said to skip the consumer-grade crates and look for commercial-grade crates like the ones you're referencing. I'll probably give this a shot as a temporary lift before the cinder block route if my local grocery store has any decent ones out back.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> question for you vets.
> is it possible for a rca interconnect to sound better than another rca interconnect?
> 
> i was using a little tiny small CHEAP (2$) interconnect to run from my woo to my yamaha.
> ...


 

 I definitely hear a difference between different types of cables. The most obvious is switching to silver cables if you're used to copper. Differences are subtle but they are there.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





> Great advice, guys. This coupled with Skylab's input.. I think I may go way of the cinder block! I didn't realize they were so effective and well received. But yes, my initial drawback is because of their looks. WarriorAnt, do you have any pictures of your setup? I'd love to see it





   
  I'm painting the the room right now and putting baseboards in so everything is out of the room.   But I use those blocks with the openings facing me stacked on top of each other. The monitors I have on them happen to have a base that is the same dimension so they fit perfectly.    Get some cool colored latex paint and paint them. I use blu tack under each speaker to keep them in place.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> It's a deal for me. This unit is really that good. Even I haven't get it yet, I have R-8 at home without class A model, and it sounds beautiful. I must confess it sounds better than my CA-2010, I should have my Ca-2010 recapped in the future. Rex will (already did) say good words for this machine soon.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't got it yet, just got tracking number earlier. I might have it on Monday or Saturday, I just don't know how USPS handle it. I am happy that you didn't join bidding with me, I wanted to solicit "no bidding" here but decided let the luck run it. This one has remote too, if you want, I can code a Comcast remote for you later. I checked your input both here and AK, you man really a prompter for this model! Hope I can join you in the future after I enjoy it!




i never used a remote or got one with mine and never really needed too since my amps are always on the floor under my table and not very far from me where i roll with my chair and turn the dial lol(yeeeeaaaa,rolly chairs are awesome). i wasn't expecting too much to be honest when i first was offered up a R-9 for trade when i put my serviced top condition Sansui AU-D7 on craigslist looking for either a vintage yamaha amp or speakers. always been a big sansui and kenwood fan,but moment i got the R-9 it won me over. lot of people even like it over lot of big time Adcom and Krell,so you might end up liking it a lot. i didn't know you can code a comcast remote for it. that's very interesting. sure,i appreciate it if you let me know how. be interesting to try out.

only issue with the R-9 that was common issue which is pretty small, it uses a battery for the tuner section memory so it won't really save stations well if that's an issue for you. the tuner section is very nice sounding and sensitive though,but i still prefer my older sansui 5000x tuner section the most of all the amps i used and heard. some reason there is something magical on my 5000x on how it picks up stations. other then that,great amp and definite keeper.


----------



## RexAeterna

cifani090 said:


> Well it is thee diamond units that go for more
> 
> 
> 
> x2, nice deal but im not sure if i would call it a "deal." Im too lazy to research the unit, but i get worried if im the only bidder especially if i dont truly know its resale value. You can but a unit for $99, but can you sell it to a potential buyer for $99?




99 bucks is a steal for how well it performs i think. one of the few receivers that will not melt or blow-up driving 2ohm nominal loads. for comprehension,most high-end monster pioneers or marantz of that era would probably light on fire and blow whole bunch of outputs if presented a 2ohm nominal load. that's just it's power ability though. sound is subjective and debatable though. i find the R-9 though a very natural sounding,clean and very fast amp with extremely low distortion. they use to sell over 900 new but knowing yamaha wasn't as popular as pioneer and marantz at the time and everyone most likely already owned yamaha M-XX line of power amps and pre-amp combos at that time never bothered buying one cause separates was big thing and still is. the R-9 was actually yamaha's last best effort in the stereo receiver war before going digital and hitting the surround-sound market. the R-9 actually was an all in one M-XX and C-XX combo. the class A power amp section is identical to the M-80 but i do not know about the pre-amp section and tuner. i just know of the power amp when a tech of mine told me that cause he use to own and worked on m-80 power amp and commented on the ridiculous amount of current the thing draws in class A operation.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> I'm painting the the room right now and putting baseboards in so everything is out of the room.   But I use those blocks with the openings facing me stacked on top of each other. The monitors I have on them happen to have a base that is the same dimension so they fit perfectly.    Get some cool colored latex paint and paint them. I use blu tack under each speaker to keep them in place.




nice. another good idea people like doing to add more density and absorption is add in sand or tar or can even pack in fiberglass as well if you wanted. problem though it will be much heavier and probably have hard time moving it around the room if had to.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> EDIT: Man, I really want to get on that Audio Karma, but it's got a darn joining queue, so I gotta wait for my account to be approved before I can even search the site. I guess I'll just twiddle my thumbs until I get accepted.


 


   
  I love AudioKarma, but their search function isn't very good.  While you wait, just search with google and look for the AudioKarma threads.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





kukuk said:


> Google really don't have anything. Specs, but specs really don't mean anything.
> 
> I'm sure _someone_ is bound to have used one at some point, and hoping someone can chime in a little info. Even something as vague as saying if Marantz amps from this period are worth using or not.


 

 Thought I'd seen pictures of every Marantz piece made, but that SM-500 DC is a new one on me.  Looks like it might be a European model from the kinks that came up in a Google search.


----------



## Meewoo

Ok, I got my recent won items from sellers. And give a serious listening at weekend. My first toy is Denon PMA-770 integrated amp from 1981. Based on online info, it puts 100 watt per ch with two channels driven.    
  Second toy is Yamaha R-9 receiver from 1983-1984. It features 125 wpc RMS with 30 wpc RMS max in class A.
   
  I listened Denon PMA-770, HK PM-665, Yamaha R-8, R-9, CA-2010 and my beloved  Luxman L-85v extensively. My source is Kyocera DA-310cx, same crappy RCA cale, and my cans are AKG K-240. The music is Tori Amos “night of Hunters”, especially 3rd track “battle of tree”.
   

   

   
  I really like PMA-770, it sounds very neutral and has the largest sound stage in all amps in comparison. It’s also very detailed.  It’s like my Yamaha CA-2010, but a little smoother and with punchy bass.  Ca-2010 has more instruments separation and sounds a little full. 
   

   

   

   
  I have gotten a R-8 earlier, I thought R-9 would have the same tone as R-8. But I am totally wrong, the R-9 sounds a bit warmer than typical Yamaha equipments I had, and it has narrower sound stage due to the warm sound. When I listened to R-9 through headphones, I just can’t love it though I want to. The sound image is just not good for headphones. It seemed that I was listening to Tori Amos just before her mouth, her voice was drilling my head.  I never heard any amp sounds like that before. Most of them make you feel a little distance from singer’s mouth, a little before microphones. Yamaha R-8 has the largest distance. It seems that I am 3 feet away from singer. 
  I was little disappointed by R-9, and really didn’t understand why Rex sang high praise for it. I then tried it with speakers, now I understood why Rex pushed it so hard. It really brings the band to your room, it makes you believe that the whole band is at your room and singer is standing between two speakers. It has really fantastic sound and image. IMHO, it’s a very good speaker amp, but not for headphones.


----------



## treal512

Finally found some acceptable stands for the HPM-100s


----------



## Wharfrat

The discussion of cinderblocks, bricks, and other dense objects serving as speaker stands brings to mind mention by one audio engineer that his preference was to use marble or granite slabs as ADDITIONAL speaker bases for large monitor speakers like the Dunlavys I own now.  Since the dense objects absorb standing waves, the use of stone (including sand and ball bearings) as base material makes sense, even though the Duns have at least two inches thick oak slabs as the speaker base already.  As I have some spare granite lying around, I could probably test that theory out pretty easily but it would cost me almost as much as a new pair of headphones to have a mason cut out and contour the slabs properly.  Besides, there's no need to give myself a hernia lifting the Duns just to put some heavier than thou granite underneath....the Duns are awesome as is....I have been driving them with the Marantz 2275 as a preamp thru an Adcom GFA-555 Mk II and folks visiting have noticed the improvement with the Marantz in the mix. 
   
  (Once after a couple of hours, the Marantz went into a hissy fit and had a piercing grating sound coming out....which was quickly remedied by turning the power off and then back on...strange, I daresay.  Anybody got an idea why this could have occurred?)


----------



## treal512

I did check out cinder blocks at my local Home Depot first, but nothing looked broad enough to keep my Pioneers from a balancing act. I'm sure the wider ones would have been just fine, but I didn't want to take the chance. Although these metal stands probably won't help standing waves? very much, they definitely keep the speakers in place and let me take advantage of the lifted space in my efficiency.
   
  Hope you get your 2275 remedied, Wharfrat!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Wharfrat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I have been driving them with the Marantz 2275 as a preamp thru an Adcom GFA-555 Mk II and folks visiting have noticed the improvement with the Marantz in the mix.
> 
> (Once after a couple of hours, the Marantz went into a hissy fit and had a piercing grating sound coming out....which was quickly remedied by turning the power off and then back on...strange, I daresay.  Anybody got an idea why this could have occurred?)


 

 Marantz definitely softens the forward of Adcom.
   
  I think your Marantz has potential tran-sister or resister failure. I have Pionny SA-9100 which hiss louder and louder following the time. I sent to a local AKer to have it fixed, but I am still waiting it back.


----------



## wualta

Standing waves are caused by reflections. Either break up the surface doing the reflecting, or interpose something solid (and itself reflective) to break up the path of the reflection and voila, no more standing wave. As the frequency goes lower, this becomes more tricky, and that's another topic.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> The discussion of cinderblocks, bricks, and other dense objects serving as speaker stands brings to mind mention by one audio engineer that his preference was to use marble or granite slabs as ADDITIONAL speaker bases for large monitor speakers like the Dunlavys I own now.  Since the dense objects absorb standing waves, the use of stone (including sand and ball bearings) as base material makes sense, even though the Duns have at least two inches thick oak slabs as the speaker base already.  As I have some spare granite lying around, I could probably test that theory out pretty easily but it would cost me almost as much as a new pair of headphones to have a mason cut out and contour the slabs properly.  Besides, there's no need to give myself a hernia lifting the Duns just to put some heavier than thou granite underneath....the Duns are awesome as is....I have been driving them with the Marantz 2275 as a preamp thru an Adcom GFA-555 Mk II and folks visiting have noticed the improvement with the Marantz in the mix.
> 
> (Once after a couple of hours, the Marantz went into a hissy fit and had a piercing grating sound coming out....which was quickly remedied by turning the power off and then back on...strange, I daresay.  Anybody got an idea why this could have occurred?)


 
  I know a few guys who use granite.


----------



## Rawrbington

i know this isn't the proper place but this is one of the threads that has a lot of knowledge running around in it.
   
  has anyone heard or know much about the mission mx1 or mx2 speakers?
   
  im thinking about getting a pair and have found them new at a good price(175 shipped).
   
  they will be part of my computer/bedroom rig.
   
  any input would be much appreciated


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i know this isn't the proper place but this is one of the threads that has a lot of knowledge running around in it.
> 
> has anyone heard or know much about the mission mx1 or mx2 speakers?
> 
> ...


 

 Id probably post your question in the Vintage Speaker thread.


----------



## roadcykler

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but my Sansui 350a has developed a very noticeable hiss in the right channel. I first tried a different speaker wire routing with no difference. It is there and doesn't change regardless of volume, source, balance, etc. After the receiver has been off for a while it's barely noticeable when I first turn it on but gradually gets louder. It's also heard via the headphones. I'm thinking that a capacitor on that side is going/has gone bad but could it be something like a transistor that degrades as it warms up? If this should be in a different forum would someone who can please move it there? Thanks.


----------



## Chris J

usually means a bad transistor
  time for a visit to your local repair shop!


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i know this isn't the proper place but this is one of the threads that has a lot of knowledge running around in it.
> 
> has anyone heard or know much about the mission mx1 or mx2 speakers?
> 
> ...


 

 I have never heard a Mission that I didn't like.  Don't know much about their new stuff, but I like their old stuff.  Had quite of few pairs that fell through my hands and into new hands.  They are well designed speakers for what they are and Mission knew how to sell them.


----------



## Wharfrat

meewoo said:


> Marantz definitely softens the forward of Adcom.
> 
> I think your Marantz has potential tran-sister or resister failure. I have Pionny SA-9100 which hiss louder and louder following the time. I sent to a local AKer to have it fixed, but I am still waiting it back.


 

 Thanks for the insight...the aberration occurred after the Marantz had been on for at least 5 hours, playing at 10' o clock on the vol pot....so it could easily be a heat related transistor or resistor issue....
   
  Still have been trying to find out whats really wrong with my 1961 Scott 222-B.  As the saga goes, it turns out all the tubes work, but bass and treble for both channels does not and the output is very weak.  Was told to take it to "Floyd in Ballard", who is supposed to be a former employee at the Scott factory (must be a truly ancient dude) to be repaired...the real nice gent at Northwest Audio didn't even charge me for the diagnostics.  I fear the worst given the list of ailments found.  Hopefully nothing unobtanium to be dealt with.
   
  Whilst there, a guy came in with a Marantz 2275 in a nice wooden case with a dead phono section...so I guess I will take it there to be looked at.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> I have gotten a R-8 earlier, I thought R-9 would have the same tone as R-8. But I am totally wrong, the R-9 sounds a bit warmer than typical Yamaha equipments I had, and it has narrower sound stage due to the warm sound. When I listened to R-9 through headphones, I just can’t love it though I want to. The sound image is just not good for headphones. It seemed that I was listening to Tori Amos just before her mouth, her voice was drilling my head.  I never heard any amp sounds like that before. Most of them make you feel a little distance from singer’s mouth, a little before microphones. Yamaha R-8 has the largest distance. It seems that I am 3 feet away from singer.
> I was little disappointed by R-9, and really didn’t understand why Rex sang high praise for it. I then tried it with speakers, now I understood why Rex pushed it so hard. It really brings the band to your room, it makes you believe that the whole band is at your room and singer is standing between two speakers. It has really fantastic sound and image. IMHO, it’s a very good speaker amp, but not for headphones.




i like to mention mine is brought up to spec. it can be little too powerful with certain headphones is reason why i only use it with orthos and my 240DF's. i don't find mine warm sounding at all. speakers is where it's shine yes,but stereo image i never had one issue with it or it being warm sounding. i liked it lot over other amps myself and even over the silver faced models. it uses same power amp section as the M-80 so it should be very natural based on specs. very powerful amp and will bring out the deep sub-bass slam if your speakers(or subs) can handle it. have you tried resetting the DC offset and resetting the bias? resetting both of those should affect it lot on it's performance. i did have my yamaha output transistors,front panel section replaced as well with better ones from the tech. FWIW i also mention as source i use Echo Audiofire 2 with balanced rca to 1/4'' cables to it at +4db professional input gain meaning i'm feeding the preamp and front panel 4v instead of 2v you get from unbalanced sources. the yamaha's do like extra voltages fed into the inputs. i also like to mention my room is acoustically treated to sound dead if that matters too. my room being dead allows speakers to take full advantage over it's stereo imaging without effects of room own reflections..

overall though you might just have different taste and i respect that. if you don't want it anymore let me know cause i would love to have a back up R-9. i personally favorite it over most sansui's i heard as well.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i like to mention mine is brought up to spec. it can be little too powerful with certain headphones is reason why i only use it with orthos and my 240DF's. i don't find mine warm sounding at all. speakers is where it's shine yes,but stereo image i never had one issue with it or it being warm sounding. i liked it lot over other amps myself and even over the silver faced models. it uses same power amp section as the M-80 so it should be very natural based on specs. very powerful amp and will bring out the deep sub-bass slam if your speakers(or subs) can handle it. have you tried resetting the DC offset and resetting the bias? resetting both of those should affect it lot on it's performance. i did have my yamaha output transistors,front panel section replaced as well with better ones from the tech. FWIW i also mention as source i use Echo Audiofire 2 with balanced rca to 1/4'' cables to it at +4db professional input gain meaning i'm feeding the preamp and front panel 4v instead of 2v you get from unbalanced sources. the yamaha's do like extra voltages fed into the inputs. i also like to mention my room is acoustically treated to sound dead if that matters too. my room being dead allows speakers to take full advantage over it's stereo imaging without effects of room own reflections..
> overall though you might just have different taste and i respect that. if you don't want it anymore let me know cause i would love to have a back up R-9. i personally favorite it over most sansui's i heard as well.


 

 Hey, Rex, I am not complaining R-9. I just couldn't bear the R-9 with headphones ( I tried with my AKG K240 sextett and K340, it's a little better on K340). R-9 drives speaker with outstanding results.
  Actually, I checked DC offset and both channels are within 30mF, so I think it's fine. When I say r-9 is warm, it sounds like my CA-2010 in Class A. If I turn on the class A, R-9 sounds more defined, but barely change in tone (or I can't tell the difference, But there are obvious change on CA-2010). What does your R-9 sound in and out class A? Do you agree with my description about the sound stage of R-9? If not, I think I may have tech check the spec of my R-9. Until now, the only problems of R-9 are losing memory of station and a bad hinge for the door. I really like R-9 with speakers, the speakers sound robust, powerful and detailed. What to say, *hi-fi*.
   
  P.S I didn't get the remote yet, seller forgot to put it in the box. But I will get it in the next few days.


----------



## RexAeterna

soundstage is probably from the speakers positioning maybe. i use the Pioneer sp-fs51-lr towers as my main speakers and i get wonderful 360 degree imaging and soundstage with it. i don't issues with that part. imaging and soundstage has lot to do with the tweeter's dispersion pattern on and off axis. Domes usually consider to have the widest on axis dispersion due to size.

yea i thought i mentioned the thing about the stations not saving. that is common with those. i mentioned it even though me personally never worried bout it since i never really used the tuner much at all. i will admit the bass can be powerful with the sextetts(i own the LP model). if you own the MP or EP version it might sound bit warmer cause they have bit more bass accentuations. my K601 sounds nice and clean out of it. i'm getting my 240DF and Fostex T50p back from purrin i had them loaned out to. before i got it serviced i found my 240DF really clean sounding out of them and did enjoy pair of slightly modded Yamaha HP-1 with them. i haven't gotten chance test my modded fostex since my yamaha was getting serviced then.

also the amp has -20db muting switch. i would suggest making use of that with certain headphones. also leave the ''loudness'' knob in the ''flat'' position. the manual is online if you need it.

for class A. i notice mainly with my 240DF and speakers that it gotten bit cleaner sounding but not too much difference to be honest cause the distortion on the yamaha is so low it should be hard to tell for most people. i use class A mainly for preceptive speaker listening. i find the yamaha r-9 to be a natural amp to be honest personally cause it will bring out the speakers or headphones true colors and especially music. i like listening to acoustic guitar and lot of instrumental on it a lot.


----------



## Meewoo

Actually, I like the R-9 with speakers a lot. The image is very good, but the sound-stage is a little narrow than my other Yamahas. The image is like a macro mode in camera, it lost some sound-stage, but the expression is very impressive. 
   
  I just don't like the R-9 with headphones. It puts my head at singer's mouth, I personally couldn't bear this kind of sound. Oh, I have two sextett, one is ep and other is mp.
   
  Oh, my R-8 still can memory the station, but not R-9.  I got the remote seller shipped out, but they are not working with R-9. The seller just told me he got them from estate sale with R-9. I think I should ask for some refund.


----------



## subzer0

Does anyone know anything about the Pioneer SX-5590?
   
http://vintageelectronics.betamaxcollectors.com/pioneerstereoreceivermodelsx-5590.html


----------



## Skylab

Just like that site says, it's the black-faced European version of the SX-1250. Other than switchable mains AC voltage and black, it's a SX-1250.


----------



## MohawkUS

Hey guys, I'm new to analogue audio so go easy on me. 
 I just recently got a Dual 1209 turntable that's in pretty much mint condition from a local audio shop that was closing up. Unfortunately the receiver my parents pulled out of the closet for me was dead(late 80s marantz, I figured it would be). It plays well enough that I was able to test the turntable though, the receiver is very staticy, has horrible channel imbalance that moves around as you adjust the volume, and the lights on it flicker. I figure its a lost cause and not worth fixing so I'm looking at getting something new. 

 I've been looking at some of the onkyo tx X500 MKI series receivers from the late 70s. I'm only going to be using the phono-stage really so I figured I'd get the tx1500 and call it a day, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't buying a hunk of junk first. Is this a good model? All I've gotten from google is that the MKIs are better than the MKIIs, and that they have a good bass, and energetic sound. Sounds like what I'm looking for if the quality is good.

The receivers I have in the house are the dying marantz 560(forgot the model, but its 87 I believe) and a Pioneer SX-6(83?) that last I checked was just starting to get staticy(I used it for a few months as a headphone amp when I still had my Grados, I felt that my old Asus Essence was better)

 If I do eventually decide to hook up speakers for the room I won't need anything high powered, its a small 10x10' computer room where I keep my gear. My budget is around $100, and I put down a $25 bid on a Onyko tx1500 MKI that is in working order. I can get a tx2500 MKI for $70. 

Is it worth going with a reciever over a phono-amp in this price range? I know I've already bid on something, but I just want to make sure I made a good choice.  I pretty much spent a few hours last night looking through all the vintage receivers on ebay and looking up model numbers, so I couldn't have done too bad.. I hope.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Hey guys, I'm new to analogue audio so go easy on me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  DeoxIT


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> Actually, I like the R-9 with speakers a lot. The image is very good, but the sound-stage is a little narrow than my other Yamahas. The image is like a macro mode in camera, it lost some sound-stage, but the expression is very impressive.
> 
> I just don't like the R-9 with headphones. It puts my head at singer's mouth, I personally couldn't bear this kind of sound. Oh, I have two sextett, one is ep and other is mp.
> 
> Oh, my R-8 still can memory the station, but not R-9.  I got the remote seller shipped out, but they are not working with R-9. The seller just told me he got them from estate sale with R-9. I think I should ask for some refund.




well the older yamaha's had what was known as the ''spatial expander'' with their older receivers and amps which gave an impression of larger soundstage for troubled room acoustics and so forth. the 80's M-XX power amps came out were basically for pure power and only feature it kept was the variable loudness control. i think some CX-XX series pre-amps had the ''spatial expander'' on them but i don't recall any. the R-9 is based off the M-80 power amp(not sure if pre-amp section was based off of. i think between c-60 and c-80. not sure), so maybe that's why you don't feel the soundstage as expansive,but just a guess. not sure. 

i have the sextetts running off the speaker outputs. haven't tried headphone out with them in longest time since my 4-pin xlr to 1/4'' cable/adapter was sent with my 240DF. should be back in couple days and i can farther let you know, but from quick listen i know what your saying bout the sextetts now. with the k601 i don't get that. don't have other headphones to try and conform since not here back to me yet, but will let you know. so far i know what your saying though. my LP is bit on the warm side of things compared to the k601. the k601 i get more out in front type of vocal presentation.


----------



## jc9394

Going to pickup a turntable tomorrow, is an external phono stage an upgrade from Marantz 2265B phono input?


----------



## Skylab

Probably not, unless you spend a LOT.  Try the one in the Marantz first.  That was the golden age of phono, and most better receivers had excellent phono stages.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> well the older yamaha's had what was known as the ''spatial expander'' with their older receivers and amps which gave an impression of larger soundstage for troubled room acoustics and so forth. the 80's M-XX power amps came out were basically for pure power and only feature it kept was the variable loudness control. i think some CX-XX series pre-amps had the ''spatial expander'' on them but i don't recall any. the R-9 is based off the M-80 power amp(not sure if pre-amp section was based off of. i think between c-60 and c-80. not sure), so maybe that's why you don't feel the soundstage as expansive,but just a guess. not sure.
> i have the sextetts running off the speaker outputs. haven't tried headphone out with them in longest time since my 4-pin xlr to 1/4'' cable/adapter was sent with my 240DF. should be back in couple days and i can farther let you know, but from quick listen i know what your saying bout the sextetts now. with the k601 i don't get that. don't have other headphones to try and conform since not here back to me yet, but will let you know. so far i know what your saying though. my LP is bit on the warm side of things compared to the k601. the k601 i get more out in front type of vocal presentation.


 

 Wow, good to know the "spatial expander" thing. I haven't had chance to try Yamaha C-xx pre-amp, I use my Citation 11 on Yammy M-70, and they do have wide sound-stage. I think Pre-amp define most sound. I will try R-9 with M-70 combo this weekend to see what happens.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> Wow, good to know the "spatial expander" thing. I haven't had chance to try Yamaha C-xx pre-amp, I use my Citation 11 on Yammy M-70, and they do have wide sound-stage. I think Pre-amp define most sound. I will try R-9 with M-70 combo this weekend to see what happens.




sounds great. i kinda sent you pm as well cause i felt i was filling up the forum too much. 

EDIT:

yea pre-amp usually biggest effect but yamaha allows you to kill it with a button and strictly use the power amp section and with external equalizers. i still have hard time finding the yamaha warm sounding cause with my speakers and k601 they sound very clear and natural. my sextetts lp is clear but slight warm with some tracks but that's probably from it having more bass compared to the k601. i think cause some sextetts are naturally on bit warm side you find it warm is only guessing. i think today i'm getting my other headphones in the mail from the loaner so i'll let you know. i also will be auditioning pair of Sony SA5000 so i let you know how those sound with them from personal experience cause i know how taste varies.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Probably not, unless you spend a LOT.  Try the one in the Marantz first.  That was the golden age of phono, and most better receivers had excellent phono stages.


 

 Thanks Rob, that is exactly I'm think too.  Use the Marantz first and get an upgrade if needed but I don't have any reference to, I'm most likely will be very happy until I upgrade the table to a higher end one.


----------



## Skylab

I think you will be impressed.  The phono stage in my SX-1980 is really very impressive. Even features variable loading!


----------



## jc9394

I think I will too, compare to my old Sony table with JVC receiver that I had in the late '80s.


----------



## RexAeterna

Meewoo, still having issues with your R-9?

my headphones plus the balanced Sony SA5000 loaner came today. my 240DF sounded absolutely like Godsend off of them with crystal clear sound and no hint of warmness at all running off of speaker outputs in class A via 4-pin XLR to barewire. Sony SA5000 still listening but i ran them off the headphone out quick listen and they come out nice,clear,and airy,so only thing i can guess right now is the sextetts and 340 you have probably on warm side a bit. stereo imaging is fine of my 240DF and the Sony SA5000 i'm auditioning. i also tested my fostex t50rp with great results i like to mention too. so far no issues. maybe your power filter caps are drifting off of spec. lot times power filter caps when they drift will cause a slight warmness to the sound and can cause buzzing or very quiet electrical sound.

also curious is your R-9 plugged directly in the wall? if not you should cause it's always recommended with high powered, power amps to plug directly in the wall cause power strips and surge protectors are current limiters.


----------



## subzer0

Has anyone else noticed the receiver market on Ebay is completely illogical?
   
  For example:
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280803899653?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_602wt_1396
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220928660526?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1413
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARANTZ-2330-RECEIVER-/190625040064?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c622346c0#ht_500wt_1413
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-VINTAGE-MARANTZ-2325-STEREO-RECEIVER-/320827650691?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ab2d17283#ht_522wt_1396
   
  Unless I'm missing something, why does no one want a 2385?  Granted, they both have unique shipping situations, but that shouldn't stop them from getting their right value.  I have no idea how that 2330 will go for over $800.  I'm sure its great, but it seems wayyy too high.  
   
  Also, SX-1250's have been selling for about $600 unshipped lately.


----------



## cifani090

It looks like those units went for so much because they were mint and were serviced by professional's.


----------



## Coq de Combat

Hi again,
   
  I've found an old NAD Model 90, supposedly in good condition, for about $70. Would it be worth it to upgrade from my old cheap-o AKAI system?
   
  Picture of the MODEL, *NOT* the exact example that is up for sale.
   

   
  And synergy wise, it'd be connected to both my FiiO E10 and my Thorens TD 165 turntable - those in the know, what do you think? Worth it or skip it?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





coq de combat said:


> Hi again,
> 
> I've found an old NAD Model 90, supposedly in good condition, for about $70. Would it be worth it to upgrade from my old cheap-o AKAI system?
> 
> ...


 

 Its a really cool model, but unfortunately im not sure what the resale is. For $70 you cant go wrong, as its an early NAD product. I would buy it for $50.


----------



## Rawrbington

@cifani
  i would describe it as a little U shaped.  and a bit sterile.  but its got nice detail for a 100$ amp.
  def sounds best when fed from the woo's pre.  it warms up a bit without losing much of anything on the top and bottom
  sounds surprisingly good with all of my cans, but they are all fairly high imp except the 80 ohm beyers.  and oddly enought those two mate excellently.
  MUCH better HP jack than my A-S500 yam in the living room.
  except for the funky cutting in and out for the first 30 seconds to a minute when i first plug cans into it.


----------



## Coq de Combat

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Its a really cool model, but unfortunately im not sure what the resale is. For $70 you cant go wrong, as its an early NAD product. I would buy it for $50.


 


  Thanks for the answer. These old amplifiers are surprisingly often up for sale, but never for $70, more like $150 (not this exact model, just retro and vintage amps in general seem priced somewhere around there). Even though it's not a lot of money, I'll really have to think this over, since I'm not loaded right now.. I had a little hope inside me that someone would say "OMG it's their flagship model, buy buy buy..." - but seeing as you'd pay $50 for it, it seems to be fair priced and in that case I might be better off saving my money for something better along the road.


----------



## palmfish

A $50 (or $70) receiver can very quickly turn into a $350 receiver if it needs servicing (and most do).


----------



## BmWr75

Very true.
   
  Unless you can know how to work on your own stuff, vintage refurbishment is expensive due to the man-hours required.  Parts are typically not too expensive.
   
  My Pioneer SX-1010 is sick now.  Need to make a big capacitor order tonight.


----------



## ardgedee

Old silver-face NAD equipment is more unusual in North America than in western Europe. If I was offered a healthy and good-sounding example for $70, I would consider it a steal, but this might not be true where you live.


----------



## Coq de Combat

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> A $50 (or $70) receiver can very quickly turn into a $350 receiver if it needs servicing (and most do).


 

 Ah, yes of course. That's an aspect I didn't really think ok - how much the service would cost if it turned out to be in worse shape than I thought. Of course, I can listen to it before buying, but then again, I don't know what to look for when trying to find faults. Because of this...
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Unless you can know how to work on your own stuff, vintage refurbishment


 
  Bang. First problem here. I don't know how to work on my own stuff. I'm no electrician and logic says if I would be all up in that amplifier with a multimeter and an soldering iron, I'd be fried before it sounded good.

  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Old silver-face NAD equipment is more unusual in North America than in western Europe. If I was offered a healthy and good-sounding example for $70, I would consider it a steal, but this might not be true where you live.


 
   
  I won't lie, I don't see old silver-faced NAD equipment often for sale over here. I do, however, see at least one vintage Marantz up for sale every month. Some yammies, technics, pioneer and so on.
   
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
  My old AKAI works. It's not the most refined of equipment I reckon, but it get's the job done, and the headphone out (the most important part for me) is the "best sounding" of all the receivers and amplifiers I have at home right now, and I have a new Pioneer, Yamaha, the FiiOs and so on. I guess it will have to do for a while - until it breaks or I have a change of heart or something.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> @cifani
> i would describe it as a little U shaped.  and a bit sterile.  but its got nice detail for a 100$ amp.
> def sounds best when fed from the woo's pre.  it warms up a bit without losing much of anything on the top and bottom
> sounds surprisingly good with all of my cans, but they are all fairly high imp except the 80 ohm beyers.  and oddly enought those two mate excellently.
> ...


 

 Gotcha, sterile turns be off compared to neutral of say a Pioneer. The Yamaha isn't close to as good as the Woo... right?
   
  Quote: 





coq de combat said:


> Thanks for the answer. These old amplifiers are surprisingly often up for sale, but never for $70, more like $150 (not this exact model, just retro and vintage amps in general seem priced somewhere around there). Even though it's not a lot of money, I'll really have to think this over, since I'm not loaded right now.. I had a little hope inside me that someone would say "OMG it's their flagship model, buy buy buy..." - but seeing as you'd pay $50 for it, it seems to be fair priced and in that case I might be better off saving my money for something better along the road.


 
   
  Something like an entry level Marantz 2xxx series is better, but ive never seen a NAD Model 90 for sale, except for (i think) a broken one for $79.
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> A $50 (or $70) receiver can very quickly turn into a $350 receiver if it needs servicing (and most do).


 

 x2, and id hate for someone to buy an investment piece and to get the opposite.
  
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Old silver-face NAD equipment is more unusual in North America than in western Europe. If I was offered a healthy and good-sounding example for $70, I would consider it a steal, but this might not be true where you live.


 

 x2, do you have any old NAD's?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> Gotcha, sterile turns be off compared to neutral of say a Pioneer. The Yamaha isn't close to as good as the Woo... right?


 


  i guess the U shape comment was a bit off.
  its fairly flat in the mids and bass, but with a little bit of brightness.
  just like my other yam.
   
  and maybe its not bright, cause ive read other people say the s a500 isn't bright.
  it may just be me being used to the tubey woo.
   
  and no, its not as good.
  the woo bests it pretty much everywhere. 
   
  edit: i also wonder about the market for some of the vintages on ebay.  right now it seems like marantz has come down in the last week where as a month ago prices were freaking astronomic.
  2215's going for 225$
  and 2245s going for 450$


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Rawrbington* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> its fairly flat in the mids and bass, but with a little bit of brightness. just like my other yam.
> 
> and maybe its not bright, ...it may just be me being used to the tubey woo.


 

 This is exactly the way I'd describe the mid-'70s Yamaha receivers like my CR-620. They _measured_ flat, but because of yet-undiscovered distortion mechanisms peculiar to the power transistors of the time, they _sounded_ bright.
   
  If I ever write a hardboiled detective novel, I'll name one of the heroes Tubey Woo.


----------



## MohawkUS

Anyone have any expiriance with Sherwood recievers? I just picked up a Sherwood S-721A from ebay for $50. I'm going to be using it pretty much just for its phono-stage.


----------



## publicholiday

Any owner of pioneer sx? I saw a small pioneer sx 440, wonder if anyone have experience with low powered pioneer sx line?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Probably not, unless you spend a LOT.  Try the one in the Marantz first.  That was the golden age of phono, and most better receivers had excellent phono stages.


 


  You are right, I'm totally impressed even with the entry level Rega P1.  I did not remember my vinyl sound this good before.  Now I need to clean all the dusts of them.  Is spinclean any good?


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> Any owner of pioneer sx? I saw a small pioneer sx 440, wonder if anyone have experience with low powered pioneer sx line?


 

 Me and Skylab both own SX-1250's and he also owns a SX-1980.


----------



## AuralRelations

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> You are right, I'm totally impressed even with the entry level Rega P1.  I did not remember my vinyl sound this good before.  Now I need to clean all the dusts of them.  Is spinclean any good?


 

 I have a Spin Clean and it works OK. For $80, I really expected more. There's a certain break-in time with it too. After cleaning about 30 records, it starts doing a better job. Right now, I use the Spin Clean as a preliminary wash to get most of the grit off. If it sounds good, I'll leave the record alone. If it still sounds noisy, I use Titebond II wood glue to clean the record. It takes forever to dry but the results are incredible.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> I have a Spin Clean and it works OK. For $80, I really expected more. There's a certain break-in time with it too. After cleaning about 30 records, it starts doing a better job.


 


  Why does everything audio related need to be burned in to work best?


----------



## Rawrbington

why are vintage so expensive right now??!?!?!
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-1250-JUST-GIVEN-PREMIUM-OVERHAUL-PERFECT-/330663933639?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item4cfd1b36c7
   
  WHY?
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-1980-Monster-Receiver-Great-Condition-NEW-PICTURES-Original-Box-/330577898066?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4cf7fa6a52
   
  What???
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-YAMAHA-CR-3020-Stereo-Receiver-Very-Rare-80-lb-MONSTER-/290657899285?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43ac8f9315
   
  i mean don't get me wrong, visually stunning all of them, but poop, thats rediculous.


----------



## cifani090

You have to understand, people want to buy something that is guaranteed to work and with a warranty. These are also mint units, one with the original box.


----------



## palmfish

Supply and demand...


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah yeah yeah. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  it seems i can remember 1 year or 2 ago they were half that.
  i wonder if people play the vintage markets.  with futures and stuff... j/k
  marantz seem to be coming down a hair, in the last 2 weeks.
  pioneers seem to be going up.
  and yams are still just really cheap in comparison.
  except the 3020 obv
   
  wow the yamaha add has the original MSRP at 1500$
  how much was that in 1979?
  about 4 grand?


----------



## wje

Quote:


rawrbington said:


> @cifani
> i would describe it as a little U shaped.  and a bit sterile.  but its got nice detail for a 100$ amp.
> def sounds best when fed from the woo's pre.  it warms up a bit without losing much of anything on the top and bottom
> sounds surprisingly good with all of my cans, but they are all fairly high imp except the 80 ohm beyers.  and oddly enought those two mate excellently.
> ...


 

  
  Nice setup.  I also have the new Yamaha A-S500 connected to my RS-6 Silvers by Monitor Audio and also a Elemental Designs sub.  I'm feeding it with a Squeezebox and I really like the sound.  However, when it comes to headphones, I'm with you - the A-S500 is a bit weak.  Especially, compared to my Sansui 881 - which is da bomb.  The sound is balanced and just beautiful out of that receiver when powering my Magnums on my ears.


----------



## BmWr75

Asking price and actual selling price can be very different.
  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> why are vintage so expensive right now??!?!?!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-1250-JUST-GIVEN-PREMIUM-OVERHAUL-PERFECT-/330663933639?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item4cfd1b36c7
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

Indeed.  That SX-1980 you linked to has been for sale on eBay for at LEAST 6 months.  No one ever buys it, and he just keeps relisting it.  Maybe someday it will sell at $3K, but I doubt it.  As much as I love my SX-1980, $3K for one that hasn't been restored is just WAY too much IMO.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> wow the yamaha add has the original MSRP at 1500$
> how much was that in 1979?
> about 4 grand?


 

 According to Aker, Yamaha might only sell 500 units CR3020 back then. The rarity definitely influences the asking price. It seems there are much more Pionny fans than Yammy 's. Otherwise, the Cr-3020 won't be there for long time already.
   
  It's also Yammy's biggest receiver like SX-1980, G-33000 and Marantz 2600, historic value also increases the asking price. I saw a recapped one fetched $1450 last September. If I am local, I might offer $650 for that piece.
   
  But now I need some help with decision. There is a wood cased Accuphase E-202 for sale at $550, the four power caps also have been replaced. Do you guys think it's a good price? (BTW, I already have too many pieces, I just want to try Accuphase)


----------



## singh

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> According to Aker, Yamaha might only sell 500 CR3020 back then. The rarity definitely influences the asking price. It seems there are much more Pionny fans than Yammy 's. Otherwise, the Cr-3020 won't be there for long time already.
> 
> It's also Yammy's biggest receiver like SX-1980, G-33000 and Marantz 2600, historic value also increases the asking price. I saw a recapped one fetched $1450 last September. If I am local, I might offer $650 for that piece.
> 
> But now I need some help with decision. There is a wood cased Accuphase E-202 for sale at $550, the four power caps also have been replaced. Do you guys think it's a good price? (BTW, I already have too many pieces, I just want to try Accuphase)


 

  
  yup i think its a great price. you can always sell them at that price ( or more )


----------



## Meewoo

Yeah, I see price on ePay is high. But I always sell stuff on local. The E-202 is on Craiglist since 14th, it seems that no one bites it. Normally good stuff moves very fast on my local, it makes me wonder!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> @cifani
> i would describe it as a little U shaped.  and a bit sterile.  but its got nice detail for a 100$ amp.
> def sounds best when fed from the woo's pre.  it warms up a bit without losing much of anything on the top and bottom
> sounds surprisingly good with all of my cans, but they are all fairly high imp except the 80 ohm beyers.  and oddly enought those two mate excellently.
> ...


 

 Gotta say, that Yamaha looks..............*AWESOME!*

 Something about the styling makes it hard to believe it is approx. 25 years old.
  It looks _extremely_ modern.


----------



## Meewoo

Those are really good picture taken by Rawrbington!
   
  And many guys in this forum took great pictures too!! True love for vintage stuff!!


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> why are vintage so expensive right now??!?!?!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-1250-JUST-GIVEN-PREMIUM-OVERHAUL-PERFECT-/330663933639?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item4cfd1b36c7
> 
> ...


 


  That big Yammie is actually a decent price for someone local.  You never know when the popularity of Yamaha will sky rocket in price.


----------



## moodyrn

Rawrbington that yammie looks super classy and elegant; a true looker.
   
  Also, i just recently took ownership of a very nice au-517. Only cost 201.00 shipped on epay. Really surprised it went so low, the only cosmetic blemish was a slightly bent fin on top of the case. It took all of 5 sec for me to straighten out. Other than that, there's no other marks I could find. It doesn't even need any contact cleaner treatment. All knobs and switches are scratch free and it was pretty much plug and play. I haven't opened her up yet, but I really like what I hear so far. It's not quiet on par with the totl receivers I've owned, but I would put it just one notch below those. But this could change if I have to replace any caps, bias, voltage adjustments etc.
   
  But the headphone out easily is on par with a 800-1000.00 "solid state" dedicated headphone amp(that should tell you how much I like the flagship models). My heavily modded d7k's sound absolutely lovely and I'm dedicating this thing solely for the purpose of driving those...great synergy! My he-6 on the other hand don't have the oomph in the lower registers and smoothness of my 2325. This thing does sound similar to it though. I would say it sounds like a less refined, less powerful version of it. It doesn't have quiet the treble roll the marantz does at the treble extremes though.


----------



## Meewoo

Moodyrn,
   
*This post is worthless without PICTURES!!!*
   
  I hope we have icons as on AK.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah I know lol, I'll try to have some up tonight.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, Moodyrn! But I am with Meewoo, we need pics!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Moodyrn,
> 
> *This post is worthless without PICTURES!!!*
> 
> I hope we have icons as on AK.


 

 You mean like this one:


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> You mean like this one:


 


  Yes, how did you post here??


----------



## moodyrn

Well here are a few pics. I haven't even cleaned her up yet. Still hadn't taken a look on the inside either. So the final result will look better than this(hopefully)
   

   
  Thought I would use my new w3000anv to dress her up a bit.


----------



## Meewoo

Wow, this is very good deal for Au-517!! Looks great!! Hope you enjoy it!! The 65 wpc Sansui is really amazing!!
   
  Have you refurnished your 2325?


----------



## moodyrn

I'm waiting on a new pot to arrive from over seas. And unfortunately I have to redo the case. I decided not to use varnish, and just sand it and use teak oil instead. It looked absolutely fantastic. But there was a spot on the side where I didn't sand deep enough. So that spot is darker than the rest of it. I complintated leaving it alone, but over time it just started to annoy me. So I'm in the process of sanding of all of the teak oil and starting over. Hopefully I wont mess it up.
   
  In the meantime, I'm using a preamp feeding the power amp section of the marantz for listening. Using it that way still allows me to use the headphone jack as well.


----------



## jbusuego

here's mine ONKYO INTEGRA Pre amp P 3060R(one of the heaviest preamp) and AMp M5060R


----------



## Meewoo

Gorgeous green VU meter!!!!
   
  Onkyo is rare here too. Yours are Integra, those are more rare than Onkyo. I saw headphone port is in the power-amp part. It should be a very good headphone amp too!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yes, how did you post here??


 

 Saved the AK GIF file to my PC and uploaded it as a picture here.


----------



## Meewoo

I will save yours and upload for later use! Thanks!, LOL!


----------



## Skylab

Moodyrn looks great and you got a GREAT deal!
   
  Jbusuego, those Onkyos also look great!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





jbusuego said:


> here's mine ONKYO INTEGRA Pre amp P 3060R(one of the heaviest preamp) and AMp M5060R


 


 That is beautiful!


----------



## moodyrn

Jbusuego that's a very nice looking rig. I bet it sounds as good as it looks. And thanks all for the compliments. I had my sights set on a 717, but couldn't pass up the 517 at that price. I don't need the extra power, but I do wish it had the -20db button like the 717 has though. It hisses just a little with my w3000anv, but I don't plan to use it with those much anyway.


----------



## jbusuego

Thanks a lot guys. One of the cool thing about the amp is that it has a time delay power up, the  VU meter power up as red and then turns green after a few seconds.


----------



## cifani090

I love them meters, they are stunning!


----------



## Rawrbington

so i picked up a pioneer clunker today.
  the aux input is... i dunno whats up with it but the left channel is pretty much non existant but only when using the aux inputs.
   
  so until it finds its way to my brothers bench, can i use tape 1 in?
  it seems to be working using tape 1 from the pre out of my WA2 but not sure about the direct from source.
  don't tape inputs want a specific level thats different than line or aux?


----------



## Skylab

I have re-arranged a few things, and I took some fresh glamor shots, hope you all will indulge me...


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> so i picked up a pioneer clunker today.
> the aux input is... i dunno whats up with it but the left channel is pretty much non existant but only when using the aux inputs.
> 
> so until it finds its way to my brothers bench, can i use tape 1 in?
> ...


 

 What Pioneer is it?
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have re-arranged a few things, and I took some fresh glamor shots, hope you all will indulge me...


 

 Very nice, and i like the turn of the century -1880's (?) table. Im wondering though, please take no offense, but 1. you need a better camera and 2. what are you sitting down on? Show us some shots of what your sitting on.... maybe a Herman Miller lounge chair


----------



## Skylab

Actually that's a pretty good camera, but I am using an ultra-low light mode there for effect, and with no tripod, so it could be crisper.
   
  My seating is nothing to look at, just a small black couch.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have re-arranged a few things, and I took some fresh glamor shots, hope you all will indulge me...


 

 Impressive no matter how you arrange it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Impressive no matter how you arrange it.


 

 x2!
   
  The wood cases are just classic. Metal or plastic just can't give you that feeling.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


skylab said:


> I have re-arranged a few things, and I took some fresh glamor shots, hope you all will indulge me...


 

 The speakers' bigger than Jerry.
   
  Just like real life!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> What Pioneer is it?


 
  SX 650
  but she sounds really good for a rat
   
  makes me want to sell it and buy a 1050.
  now i really really want a 1050 or 950
   
  i hate to say it but she sounds a lot better than my yammie. not as detailed, but smoother and more musical. less sterile
  but man she's ugly.
   
  its like, the yam is the super sexy hot self centered vapid chick...
  and hte pioneer is the ugly fat chick thats a awesome person and great fun to hang out with... but i ain't posting no pictures of her


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have re-arranged a few things, and I took some fresh glamor shots, hope you all will indulge me...


 

 Oh Man!  Love that Lava Lamp too!


----------



## BmWr75

Very nice Rob..........you need some more stuff.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Oh Man!  Love that Lava Lamp too!


 

 Thanks...I know it's a bit cheesy/cliche, but I like it anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Very nice Rob..........you need some more stuff.


 


  Thanks Scott.  Any suggestions on what's next? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Truthfully that rig is pretty much exactly how I like it, about a year later.  I have promised myself (and my wife) that the gear will stay contained by that rack, but even without that constraint, there isn't much else that would go in that rig.  It would be cool if I could find a tube DAC with matching cosmetics (the DAC in this rig is out of sight), but I find that doubtful...


----------



## BmWr75

All you are missing Rob is an antique electric fan and the Maxell tape poster.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> All you are missing Rob is an antique electric fan and the Maxell tape poster.


 

 x2, on a great setup. Liking the (original?) Maxell poster, and the mono blocks and speakers. What mono's and speakers are those?


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> All you are missing Rob is an antique electric fan and the Maxell tape poster.


 


 I like the Herb Alpert poster.


----------



## Skylab

LOL - Scott the funny thing is that I DO have that poster framed! But it is in my family room where my "big rig"/modern hifi / home theater is.


----------



## Rawrbington

my god i never realized just how big the 1980 is!!!
   
  WOW.
  that room just looks warm and fuzzy.
   
   
  how would i go about hooking up a sub with bookshelfs off my vintage yammie?
  i don't have the sub yet but am about to start shopping.
  what does it need to have in order to work properly with the vintage stereo receiver?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





cifani090 said:


> x2, on a great setup. Liking the (original?) Maxell poster, and the mono blocks and speakers. What mono's and speakers are those?


 


  The amps are Rogue Audio M-120s......120 watt monoblock tube amps.  
   
  The speakers are homebrew.  I built them with the guidance of Zilch at AK (RIP).  The cabinets are vintage Heath AS-10s, woofer = JBL 127H-1 and tweeter = BMS 4555 compression driver mounted on JBL PT-D95HF masonite horn.  They have no passive crossover right now, so have to be bi-amped using an active crossover.  About $1000 worth of drivers in 1960s vintage cabinets I picked up for $10 and refinished myself.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> my god i never realized just how big the 1980 is!!!
> 
> WOW.
> that room just looks warm and fuzzy.
> ...


 
  Easiest way is to get a sub that has speaker level inputs and outputs.  Then just run your speaker wires to the sub first and then from the sub to your speakers.


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The amps are Rogue Audio M-120s......120 watt monoblock tube amps.
> 
> The speakers are homebrew.  I built them with the guidance of Zilch at AK (RIP).  The cabinets are vintage Heath AS-10s, woofer = JBL 127H-1 and tweeter = BMS 4555 compression driver mounted on JBL PT-D95HF masonite horn.  They have no passive crossover right now, so have to be bi-amped using an active crossover.  About $1000 worth of drivers in 1960s vintage cabinets I picked up for $10 and refinished myself.


 

 The speakers came out great! I wouldn't mind a pair.


----------



## Lucsteva

Hi all.  Thanks to cifani090 for pointing me over here.  I'd like to introduce myself and my current setup.  I am the proud owner of a Marantz 2235, and use it as a power amp for both my headphone listening and for listening thru my Mission MX-1's.  I really wanted to blend current tech with vintage power, and I'm extremely happy with the results thus far.
   
  Again, thx cifani090 for letting me know about this thread.  I'm also on AK with the same username.
   
  Lucas


----------



## Lucsteva

...the forum ate my post.
   
  Thx to cifani090 for pointing me over here.  Just came to say hi.  Nothing huge, but I'm the proud owner of a Marantz 2235 and use it as a power amp in my current setup.
   
  Lucas


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody have any cleaning tips for the face of this ratty pioneer?
  alcohol?
  or something else?
  can i take the nobs off and soak them in alcohol?


----------



## moodyrn

Take off the face and knobs and soak them separately in a dish washer liquid solution over night(or several hours). It's gentle, doesn't do any damage and works wonders. You don't even have to do any scrubbing. You'll be amazed at what that water will look like after you pull everything out.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Take off the face and knobs and soak them separately in a dish washer liquid solution over night(or several hours). It's gentle, doesn't do any damage and works wonders. You don't even have to do any scrubbing. You'll be amazed at what that water will look like after you pull everything out.


 


  Indeed, just let the cleaner do it's job and gently take off the grime, especially where the letterings are.  Don't use alcohol.


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have re-arranged a few things, and I took some fresh glamor shots, hope you all will indulge me...


 

 Great Scott!! Maybe a panoramic picture next time? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





lucsteva said:


> ...the forum ate my post.
> 
> Thx to cifani090 for pointing me over here.  Just came to say hi.  Nothing huge, but I'm the proud owner of a Marantz 2235 and use it as a power amp in my current setup.
> 
> Lucas


 

 You can't just come over all willy nilly empty handed like that! Post a picture of that 2235.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Well here are a few pics. I haven't even cleaned her up yet. Still hadn't taken a look on the inside either. So the final result will look better than this(hopefully)
> 
> 
> 
> Thought I would use my new w3000anv to dress her up a bit.


 


 Oooooh baby.
  A friend of mine still has the 85 Watt version.
  He bought it in 1978 and _*still*_ uses it to power Infinity Quatum 5 loudspeakers.


----------



## claybum

Here's some eye candy (sorry for the fuzzy pic). I picked up this pioneer sa9800 a couple days ago on a whim. I will eventually use it in my living room rig when I get some speakers worthy of some nice amplification. For now I just listen to my LCD2 and my oh my it does sound terrific.


----------



## Skylab

Fluoroscan!!!!  Sweet


----------



## treal512

Bad A!!!!! It's the 9900 that doesn't have that sweet Fluoroscan, right? I am jealous, haha.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Here's some eye candy (sorry for the fuzzy pic). I picked up this pioneer sa9800 a couple days ago on a whim. I will eventually use it in my living room rig when I get some speakers worthy of some nice amplification. For now I just listen to my LCD2 and my oh my it does sound terrific.


 

 Very nice, congrats on the find!!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Here's some eye candy (sorry for the fuzzy pic). I picked up this pioneer sa9800 a couple days ago on a whim. I will eventually use it in my living room rig when I get some speakers worthy of some nice amplification. For now I just listen to my LCD2 and my oh my it does sound terrific.


 

 My 5800's big brother!
   
  I always wanted the 9800, but the 5800 was all I could afford when I was 15...


----------



## jc9394

Anyone use a Pioneer SX-780 with LCD-2?  There is one on local CL and that VU meter is so nice.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Don't know if anyone has seen this site yet.  I just stumbled onto it.  I think there is some vintage here.
  http://www.nosvalves.com/sale.htm
   
  Not sure how up to date the site is though.


----------



## Lucsteva

@treal512:
   
  BAM!
   

   
  And an obligatory "lights off" pic (with added LD Mk III majesty...)


----------



## treal512

YEaaaaa!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Very nice. Where did you get the speaker stands?


----------



## Lucsteva

Amazon - Sanus NF24 in cherry.  The speaker plate on them is just a hair larger than the width footprint of my Mission MX-1's, which isn't ideal...but the cherry pillar is solid wood, and it looks great overall - price was good too.


----------



## Rawrbington

i just ordered a pair of Rosewood MX1's!!!
  how do they sound?
   
  oh and is the price of those sanus' on amazon a pair or each?


----------



## treal512

Nice. Their prices are good, you're right. The stands don't hold much weight though.
   
  I'm happy with my metal stands, but they're not all that ideal. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah my missions(when they finally get here) are gonna be sitting on cinder blocks for a while.
  first thing might be a sub to go with.
  then stands.
   
  but still those prices are crazy cheap on the sanus stands.
  i just hope the missions sound good out of my 70s receivers
   
  awesome set up by the way Lucsteva!!!


----------



## Lucsteva

@Treal - I absolutely wouldn't put any more weight on them than I already have - but for small bookshelf speakers they are rock solid.
   
  @Rawrbington - To my ears, they have managed to sing with just about everything I've thrown at them.  Very punchy and fun.  I would definitely recommend a small sub with them.  They can handle a large amount of bass, but you tend to get some wind noise from the port when the drivers really start to move (I've only been able to get such excursion with bass-centric dubstep and hiphop).  I'm looking at the Polk PSW10 myself - it come's in cherry to match everything else 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The price for the stands is for the pair - don't let the reviews scare you, I didn't have any issues at all with screws stripping or anything else.


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks for the info Lucsteva!
  yeah im really excited.
  it seems like its taking weeks for them to get here!!!
  lol i've been looking at that same sub.
  for its purpose and price it seems like a great deal.
   
  my vintage yammie is 45 watts and my old pioneer is only 35.
  think they have the juice to make em sound good?


----------



## Lucsteva

They will both power them fine.  My Marantz is rated to 35, but these vintage units tend to significantly punch above their weight.  Similar 2235's were able to push around 50 consistently to dummy 8 ohm loads (according to people smarter than me on AK).
   
  Have you ever done any research on how wattage is rated today vs how they did in the heydays of hifi?  It's really interesting, and makes you wonder what these old monsters would be rated at in current terms.


----------



## Rawrbington

i've always heard that new watts != old watts.
  i wonder what the pioneer sx 1980 puts out when measured like that?
  270 is what its rated at.  i bet 300+ lol
   
  just seeing your missions is getting me really excited.
   
  what color are yours?


----------



## Lucsteva

I got them in cherry as they match the floor better.  I was initially going to go with the rosewoods though.  You will definitely have to post pics once they arrive!


----------



## AuralRelations

I just noticed this gem watching Sons of Anarchy. Anyone want to identify what's in this setup? Looks like a Marantz 2250 on the bottom.


----------



## Rawrbington

is 300-350$ too much for a bigger pioneer?
  like a 950/980?
   
  buying this beat up mule of a vintage pioneer just opened up a whole new bag of worms


----------



## treal512

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> I just noticed this gem watching Sons of Anarchy. Anyone want to identify what's in this setup? Looks like a Marantz 2250 on the bottom.


 

 Nice find. It looks like a 2235.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> is 300-350$ too much for a bigger pioneer?
> like a 950/980?
> 
> buying this beat up mule of a vintage pioneer just opened up a whole new bag of worms


 


   
  $300 for a 980 in very good condition would be a good price.  I'm not as sure about the 950 but probably the same.
   
  When you think about what you get from a 980 versus what $300 can buy you elsewhere in audio, the 980 looks like the bargain of the century, as long as you don't have to spend another $300 right away to get it to work right, although even then, finding something as good either as a receiver or just as a headphone amp for $600 would be tough...


----------



## Skylab

Not nearly as cool a show, but my kids like the show iCarly, and much to my surprise, in Carly and Spencer's apartment, there is an SX-1250!!!! I was floored.  That set designer knew his or her stuff, since they show takes place in modern times and is all about "hip".


----------



## Frank I

There were two very nice SX950 one sold 350.00 and the other for 290.00 on ebay both had return policies and looked very clean. i passed as I only use my SX650 for my D7000 and HE500 occasionally but if I were to choose again the SX950 would be the one because its discrete and the from what Rob told me once the 980 was not. i als0 thing the SX650 I have is very food for what I paid and I have had no issue with it for the 35.00 bucks I paid i will run this one to the ground before getting another one but the SX950 is what i would like next. I had paid 180.00 for my SX980 but has an issue with the head amp so i was using the speaker terminals for the HE6.


----------



## Rawrbington

Frank i tink i was watching both of those as well!
  the ones that ended last night?
  i only passed because it would have left me broke for the next week.
  i wonder who got them?
  im def after a 850 or 950 though in the near future.
  just gonna try to be patient and find the right one at the right price


----------



## authistic

Not sure if this is already vintage but I'm using a Yamaha A-700 in my main speaker rig. Lovin it.
   
  greets


----------



## cifani090

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Not nearly as cool a show, but my kids like the show iCarly, and much to my surprise, in Carly and Spencer's apartment, there is an SX-1250!!!! I was floored.  That set designer knew his or her stuff, since they show takes place in modern times and is all about "hip".


 

 What!? Im going to have to re-watch it and find it. That's pretty cool!
  
  Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> I just noticed this gem watching Sons of Anarchy. Anyone want to identify what's in this setup? Looks like a Marantz 2250 on the bottom.


 

 Digging the wood case!


----------



## Rawrbington

got my missions today!
  whats interesting is in my opinion the pioneer sounds best with headphones, but the speakers sound best out of the yamie.
   
  which is just what i needed.  an actual reason to keep both... in a room that doesn't have room for both...


----------



## ri_toast

Quote: 





authistic said:


> Not sure if this is already vintage but I'm using a Yamaha A-700 in my main speaker rig. Lovin it.
> 
> greets


 

 yes it is and class A to boot, tone bypass, i guess at one point there was a bigger integrated from Yamaha similar features. very clean output and heavy. pots get noisy


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got my missions today!
> whats interesting is in my opinion the pioneer sounds best with headphones, but the speakers sound best out of the yamie.


 

 Synergy is THE key!!
   
  I know that recent Rotel is toned for B&W speakers. You may want to try your Yammy CR with NS speakers.  I have Yammy NS-4 speakers, but I like my NAD 3140 pairing them more than my Yammy amp. Yammy together sounds a little bright to me. Oh, everyone says vintage Marantz amps are very forgiving with speakers. ( I think Marantz is forgiving for everything, bad recording etc. But I hate marantz with Sennheiser  Hd-580.)


----------



## Rawrbington

i can remember when i first dove into audio stuff around here and reading the word Synergy and thinking it was just nonsense.  then i hear the DT 990/600 out of an OTL tube amp!
  im currently shopping either a pioneer sx 850/950 or if i can't find one at a decent price a marantz 2220/2215/2245/ect
  i have a local guy with a MINT 2245 that hes been trying to sell for months.  hes asking 300.  might bite the bullet and offer 250 if i can't score a pioneer for that price.
  then i'd at least have a sample of each of the big three 70s sounds that im after.
  decide which i like best and go from there.
   
  question about bi wiring.
   
  my missions are supposed to sound best when bi wired.  but they don't require it.
   
  how do you bi wire exactly?  can i use speaker out A and B from the same reciever?  and then select both A + B on the receiver to play them bi wired?
   
  also, is it a bad idea to hook up the speakers to 2 different receivers?  and then just not play them both at the same time obviously?  that way i can switch back and forth without messing with wires? or is this a bad idea?


----------



## manveru

Hey guys. Been enjoying reading this thread, especially the beautiful pictures! I've been wanting to get something new that could drive both speakers and headphones with a budget of ~$350. Was wondering if anyone had any idea if I could get more bang for my buck SQ wise with some vintage gear over current production stuff? Earlier I was looking at things like the MP-301 MK2, Maverick A1, and Qinpu A3. Could I do better with a nice SX-850 or the like? Thanks.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> question about bi wiring.
> 
> my missions are supposed to sound best when bi wired.  but they don't require it.
> 
> how do you bi wire exactly?  can i use speaker out A and B from the same reciever?  and then select both A + B on the receiver to play them bi wired?


 


  http://www.brilliancehifi.co.uk/how-to-bi-wire-speakers.htm


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


rawrbington said:


> question about bi wiring.
> 
> my missions are supposed to sound best when bi wired.  but they don't require it.
> 
> how do you bi wire exactly?  can i use speaker out A and B from the same reciever?  and then select both A + B on the receiver to play them bi wired?


 

 The A and B speaker outputs on your receiver are both powered by the same amp; When you're only using A there isn't a second amp sitting idle waiting for something to connect to the B output.
   
  If biwiring also bypasses the speaker's built-in crossover, this might not be as pointless as it looks. In this case, a single amp stage would continue to power the whole speaker (A output to the highs, B output to the lows, maybe), but you would have the opportunity to add an active crossover to the circuit to dial-in the sound. That's about the only advantage, though.


----------



## Wharfrat

manveru said:


> Hey guys. Been enjoying reading this thread, especially the beautiful pictures! I've been wanting to get something new that could drive both speakers and headphones with a budget of ~$350. Was wondering if anyone had any idea if I could get more bang for my buck SQ wise with some vintage gear over current production stuff? Earlier I was looking at things like the MP-301 MK2, Maverick A1, and Qinpu A3. Could I do better with a nice SX-850 or the like? Thanks.


 

 It has been my experience of late that there exists very few current production gear in the price range you are thinking of that has comparable bang for the buck SQ as vintage gear....and can drive a number of the best headphones (planar magnetics like the LCDs and HE-XXXs) out there without taking away from the potentials of those cans.  If you want new: the Schiit Lyr...if you want old: go back to page 1 of this thread, resume re-reading, and get your wants aligned with your wallet.  There are far more choices in vintage gear in your price range and performance-wise will leave you very happy.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> It has been my experience of late that there exists very few current production gear in the price range you are thinking of that has comparable bang for the buck SQ as vintage gear....and can drive a number of the best headphones (planar magnetics like the LCDs and HE-XXXs) out there without taking away from the potentials of those cans.  If you want new: the Schiit Lyr...if you want old: go back to page 1 of this thread, resume re-reading, and get your wants aligned with your wallet.  There are far more choices in vintage gear in your price range and performance-wise will leave you very happy.


 

 Thanks. That was kind of the impression I've been getting, but it's much more encouraging to get clear answers to specific questions. I'm continuing my research and keeping my eyes peeled.


----------



## publicholiday

Do you use LD as tube preamp?
  
  Quote: 





lucsteva said:


> @treal512:
> 
> BAM!
> 
> ...


----------



## dwcoleman

I picked up a Luxman R-113 for $40 on ebay last week.  Part of my lost past life now restored.  Only the Allison Six remains.  Crisp yet smooth sounds emanated from my Grado SR-60 (non-modified.)  McCartney's first album followed by Beethoven's Choral Fantasy ... I am in heaven.  Perhaps I'll replace the Polk R20's (on temporary assignment to the Luxman,) with a pair of Monitor-Audio Bronze bookshelf "B" series that remain in a box to perhaps be returned to a local vintage audiophile store.  Would love some input here.  The Luxman is in our small 9x10 den (not carpeted.)  Walls are wood paneled.
   
  Another option is to move the Luxman into our large living area and have it relieve our Denon AVR-2312 (with 132 page manual!!) of its analog duties.  But then what do I do with our living room speakers.
   
  Help!!


----------



## MohawkUS

I've had pretty bad luck with vintage gear so far.  The reciever my parents gave me is dead and the Sherwood I got from ebay has static and humming issues. Its in perfect condition visually and the seller did basic restoration work on it(deoxit, cleaning, and bulb replacement mainly). It got left outside for hours in a snow storm(though heavily packed in a box) because USPS arrived late at night, dumped it in the yard, and didn't ring the bell so that's probably what got it.


----------



## BmWr75

Nearly every vintage amp/receiver I've ever owned ended up needing some kind of work.  So, don't feel too bad.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Nearly every vintage amp/receiver I've ever owned ended up needing some kind of work.  So, don't feel too bad.


 

 x2!
   
  Have you got your SX-1010 restored? Mine had the power supply board repaired. I heard it's the common problem for SX-1010.
   
  Now I'm mostly using my 80's stuff since my Sx-1250 resistors went to south the other day.  It makes me believe that frequently turning on and off really hurt the old machine. But my SAE mark IVC and IXB combo go strong with my speakers for every day listening!! 
   
  Bottom line, you will never know when the vintage stuff go bad, just enjoy it!!


----------



## BmWr75

The SX-1010 is on the work bench with her feet in the air as we speak.  New caps are here, power supply board first, that is where I found bulging caps.  Am just waiting to get inspired to ruin some desolder wick.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The SX-1010 is on the work bench with her feet in the air as we speak.


 

 LOL!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I just imaged a turtle with same posture!


----------



## Skylab

I'm going to need to take my SX-1010 apart.  Those push button switches are the real weakness of that design, and I have to push them in and out several times every time I use it to prevent channel cut-out. I really need to take the faceplate off to get in there with deoxit.  But it is such a chore...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm going to need to take my SX-1010 apart.  Those push button switches are the real weakness of that design, and I have to push them in and out several times every time I use it to prevent channel cut-out. I really need to take the faceplate off to get in there with deoxit.  But it is such a chore...


 

 I forget you have a SX-1010. Do you like it?How does it compare to your favorite SX-1980 and SX-1250? Sorry for so many questions!


----------



## Wharfrat

Meewoo,
Why would frequent turning on and off an amp cause resistor failure. My left chanel on the headphone out on the SX 1250 gave up a ghost...
And I do turn it on and off at least once a day, never leting it idle.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Meewoo,
> Why would frequent turning on and off an amp cause resistor failure. My left chanel on the headphone out on the SX 1250 gave up a ghost...
> And I do turn it on and off at least once a day, never leting it idle.


 


  I am not a technician. I overheard that the impulse of current make the electronics components change status quick, which make them vulnerable. I once saw a thread on AK which discussing whether leave power-amp always on or not, everyone seems agree avoiding on/off frequently. Oh, my SX-1250 generates hum on left channel after I heard a pop. Based on the suggestion on AK, it might be resister failure. But I think SX-1250 really deserve a totally restore. Hope you can make your done cheaply!! I will keep mine until someday I can do it myself. Cheers for vintage stuff! You can really learn many things about audio and avoid shameless marketing point wisely.


----------



## Wharfrat

"*You can really learn many things about audio and avoid shameless marketing point wisely."*
   
Hear! Hear!  Truer words rarely spoken...
   
Thanks for the insight.  I will check back in with a 1250 repair report, though I am in no particular hurry since I still want the Scott 222-B tube amp brought to life and adjusted for the use of speaker taps....still haven't contacted that man who used to work in the factory back in the 60s and lives just 15 miles from me....heard he still does Scott amp repairs.  The Marantz 2275 is carrying the vintage flag high in my headphone camp.  That and the EF5.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I forget you have a SX-1010. Do you like it?How does it compare to your favorite SX-1980 and SX-1250? Sorry for so many questions!


 

 I think the 1010 is a ver good sounding receiver, taken on its own, but I think both the 1250 and 1980 are better sounding.  Perhaps it is that they sound clearer to me.  The 1010 is warmer, but I find it a bit colored.  keep in mind that my 1980 and 1010 were both completely restored/recapped by different people, and so my opinion may not have much bearing for others.
   


  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> Meewoo,
> Why would frequent turning on and off an amp cause resistor failure. My left chanel on the headphone out on the SX 1250 gave up a ghost...
> And I do turn it on and off at least once a day, never leting it idle.


 


  just in the headphone jack and not via speakers ? In this case the issue is the jack itself, since the headphones are driven directly off the main power amp.


----------



## BmWr75

A nice looking Marantz 2325 just sold on AudioKarma.org for $500 with a wood case.  Recapped too in all the critical places.
   
  The seller is a now former buddy of mine that neglected to tell me it was for sale.


----------



## Rawrbington

wow.
  thats a nice price too.
  ive seen the 2325 go for upwards of 700+ on ePay


----------



## claybum

http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/2822792822.html
   
   
  I've purchased from Jeff and he is a good man. Not sure he is into shipping but you could always ask. He's sold 3 sx 950 in the last few months.


----------



## Rawrbington

think he'd ship?


----------



## claybum

I know he has sold audio equipment on ebay. So it's possible.


----------



## Rawrbington

call me crazy but i feel like i'd trust that guy over some of the people selling some of them on ebay.  i think a lot of them find them at storage auctions and estate/garage sales.  spend 2 seconds with them and then put them on ebay listed as "near mint!".
   
  i'd prefer to find the stuff local for obvious reasons but the only guy around here that deals with the vintage stuff only seems to have marantz for the most part.  and i want a pioneer


----------



## claybum

Jeff is definitely an audio guy.


----------



## Rawrbington

awesome clayburn.
  talked to him on the phone.
  said he'd ship.
  he's gonna come up with a total and call me back tomorrow so i can decide for sure if i want to spend the money.
  seems like a great guy.  the kind of guy i WANT to buy something like this from.
  i really appreciate the heads up!


----------



## ardgedee

For ultra-vintage, check this beauty, a 40-watt tubed integrated amp:
   

   
  Not mine - somebody's had it for sale in the amps section here for about half a year now. Great price too, if it sounds good; I'm not familiar with Stromberg-Carlson. No headphone section, though: You'd have to wire up your own adaptor.
   
  Only downside I can see is it's got the most awkward input section I've ever seen.
   
  (*Disclaimer: *I don't know the seller and have had no communications with him. I happened across it and thought it was of interest here.)


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> awesome clayburn.
> talked to him on the phone.
> said he'd ship.
> he's gonna come up with a total and call me back tomorrow so i can decide for sure if i want to spend the money.
> ...


 

 RIGHT ON!


----------



## scamp71

Hello,
            I am Interested in buying the lafayette 120db iam not sure if your selling it or not but just send me an email back to scamp71@verizon.net and please let me know
   
                                          Thank You
                                           
                                                           Joe


----------



## Rawrbington

you should probably private message the person selling it. i'd remove my email address from the post and put it in the PM.
   
  and welcome aboard!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> For ultra-vintage, check this beauty, a 40-watt tubed integrated amp:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hi Art,
  I remember the brand back when i was a kid in the 60s and 70s. I remember they used to produce those old all integrated consoles that had AM,FM,Turntable,tube amplification and speakers all in a big piece of furniture.
  Something like this:

  You were needing to lift a lid to get to the turntable and open the middle doors to see the faceplate of the controls.
   
  I thought they sounded good but I was just a little kid so how knows to today standards.


----------



## musicman59

Here are some links to some of their top vintage amplifiers and others.
  http://www.montagar.com/~patj/ap56.htm
  http://www.montagar.com/~patj/aph1050.htm
  http://www.ohio.edu/people/postr/bapix/StromCon.htm
  http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://gallery.bostonradio.org/2005-06/alpine/100-03200-med.jpg&imgrefurl=http://gallery.bostonradio.org/2005-06/alpine/100-03200-med.html&h=480&w=640&sz=196&tbnid=1rjE5h3BnG6S8M:&tbnh=91&tbnw=121&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstromberg-carlson%2Bconsole%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=stromberg-carlson+console&docid=SHh9E8atkuJgJM&sa=X&ei=_2wlT_HJM4HZgQfG38DoCA&ved=0CEAQ9QEwAw&dur=591
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOZWMHC41U
  http://www.audiophool.cjb.net/MadeInRoch.html


----------



## publicholiday

Just scored a pair of Sony APM 22ES and thinking to grab a vintage sony amp, any sony fans here would like to share your experience?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The SX-1010 is on the work bench with her feet in the air as we speak.  New caps are here, power supply board first, that is where I found bulging caps.  Am just waiting to get inspired to ruin some desolder wick.


 

 PS board has been recapped and she still works.  Waiting for the main filter caps to discharge now so I can replace them.


----------



## Skylab

Looks good Scott! You inspired me to take mine apart and deoxit the push buttons on my SX-1010 which were giving me problems.  I snapped a few pics while I was in there (recall mine was restored/recapped by "MarkTheFixer":


----------



## BmWr75

A buddy of mine did the buttons on my 1010.  I've heard they are a bitch to get at.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, having to remove the whole faceplate is a total bummer.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah those buttons are a little hard to get to, I had to remove a lot more to get to the knobs/switches on my marantz. I had to completely remove the tone board to get to them well. After doing some research, I found there was no way around it.


----------



## Wharfrat

Skylab wrote:
*"just in the headphone jack and not via speakers ? In this case the issue is the jack itself, since the headphones are driven directly off the main power amp."*
   
  Honestly haven't checked the speaker output so I definitely hope you are right....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Dang thing is so heavy, its a hassle getting it set up for testing with speakers since I haven't been using it as a speaker amplifier (yet).  But prudence and good sense demand I determine if it is more simply the headphone jack.   If it is the female headphone jack connector in the amp itself, _is it difficult to repair_?  I plan to give it a Deoxit treatment and then go from there, assuming the speaker outputs work.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Lucsteva

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> Do you use LD as tube preamp?


 


 Sorry it took me so long, yes I run it as a true pre-amp (run it into the Marantz's main in - bypassing the preamp board).  Works great, and everything is controlled via the volume knob on the LD Mk III (running the Marantz as a power amp disables all tone and volume controls - pretty cool).


----------



## scompton

I took my Realistic STA-2200 to the DC meet last weekend and it was a big hit.  HiFi Man had their whole line up there and I wanted to hear the HE-6 on it.  I didn't get a chance to try it until late in the meet, but once I did, it became one of the hits of the meet.  A couple of people took pictures of the STA-2200 just so they could remember what it was to look for one. 
   
  It was the first time I've seen the led vu meters working on it.  Normally, I'll occasionally see the first LED flicker.  I had about half of the bar lit up.  Others who were listening louder had it near clipping, but they were listening loud enough for me to know what music they were listening to from about 5 feet away.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I took my Realistic STA-2200 to the DC meet last weekend and it was a big hit.  HiFi Man had their whole line up there and I wanted to hear the HE-6 on it.  I didn't get a chance to try it until late in the meet, but once I did, it became one of the hits of the meet.  A couple of people took pictures of the STA-2200 just so they could remember what it was to look for one.
> 
> It was the first time I've seen the led vu meters working on it.  Normally, I'll occasionally see the first LED flicker.  I had about half of the bar lit up.  Others who were listening louder had it near clipping, but they were listening loud enough for me to know what music they were listening to from about 5 feet away.


 


  NICE!!!  Love to hear stories like that.


----------



## Rawrbington

i grew up on a realistic 65C *i think*  could have the number wrong but thats what it looked like.  my dad got it in 72 i believe when he graduated from high school.  could be off by a year of so though.
  its buried in my parents attic. 
  next time im there im retrieving it for a bit of nostalgia.
   
  i remember it started to get scratchy as i got older and i always wanted a big dial instead of the dual volume sliders..  i finally put it up for a pioneer from the late 80s or early 90s.  a plastic peice of junk most likely.
   
  if only i knew then what i know now about that stuff.
   
  i found this image on the web and im 99% sure this is it.

   
  i just finding this pic brings back awesome memories of listening to beatles records with my mom during the summer.  she was a teacher so we would jam to the beatles while dad was at work.
   
  btw
  i bought a SX950 yesterday.
  CANT WAIT FOR IT TO GET HERE!!!!


----------



## publicholiday

Quote: 





lucsteva said:


> Sorry it took me so long, yes I run it as a true pre-amp (run it into the Marantz's main in - bypassing the preamp board).  Works great, and everything is controlled via the volume knob on the LD Mk III (running the Marantz as a power amp disables all tone and volume controls - pretty cool).


 


  How does it sound??


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I think the 1010 is a ver good sounding receiver, taken on its own, but I think both the 1250 and 1980 are better sounding.  Perhaps it is that they sound clearer to me.  The 1010 is warmer, but I find it a bit colored.  keep in mind that my 1980 and 1010 were both completely restored/recapped by different people, and so my opinion may not have much bearing for others.


 
  You really like neutral sound! How do you compare SX-1010 to your Marantz (2285?)?  I know you like your Marantz also. What's difference between these two warm sound receivers to you?
  
   


  Quote: 





scompton said:


> I took my Realistic STA-2200 to the DC meet last weekend and it was a big hit.  HiFi Man had their whole line up there and I wanted to hear the HE-6 on it.  I didn't get a chance to try it until late in the meet, but once I did, it became one of the hits of the meet.  A couple of people took pictures of the STA-2200 just so they could remember what it was to look for one.
> 
> It was the first time I've seen the led vu meters working on it.  Normally, I'll occasionally see the first LED flicker.  I had about half of the bar lit up.  *Others who were listening louder had it near clipping, but they were listening loud enough for me to know what music they were listening to from about 5 feet away. *


 
  Wow, is the environment so bad that they have to crank the volume to this level?


----------



## scompton

No, some people just listen much too loud.   I had no problem at any time in the meet listening to open headphones.   I was set up 2 tables away from the HiFi Man setup, about 10 feet away.  At one point, I heard someone listening to one of the headphones out of the EF-6.  It was loud enough that it sounded like speakers.


----------



## Meewoo

Are there any sound quality difference for a can in different volume levels? (Some Akers claim that some speakers sound good at low level, but I think speakers are more space depending.)


----------



## MohawkUS

meewoo said:


> Are there any sound quality difference for a can in different volume levels? (Some Akers claim that some speakers sound good at low level, but I think speakers are more space depending.)




With closed headphones there are, but from my experience its not that noticeable.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Are there any sound quality difference for a can in different volume levels? (Some Akers claim that some speakers sound good at low level, but I think speakers are more space depending.)


 


  Humans perceive different frequencies that are the same loudness to be different volumes. That didn't come out clearly...
   
  For example, if you play a 4000 Hz tone and a 40 Hz tone both at 80dB, the 4000 Hz tone will be perceived as being louder.
   
  This is why bass sounds better when music is played loud, and the bass seems to disappear when music is quiet. It's also why so many people are damaging their hearing today...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You really like neutral sound! How do you compare SX-1010 to your Marantz (2285?)?  I know you like your Marantz also. What's difference between these two warm sound receivers to you?


 

 The Marantz is indeed quite warm.  Maybe even warmer than the SX-1010.  But it has a very musical nature.  I like the 2285, the SX-1010, and the Sansui 9090DB all about equally, and I like the SX-1250 just a little more, and the SX-1980 best of all.


----------



## moodyrn

Hmm, I'm wondering if the replacement caps are coloring the sound. Warm is the last word I would use to describe the 1010 I had. I found it to be a shade warmer than neutral. But much closer to being classified as neutral than warm. It was nothing like my marantz and not even as warm as the kenwood 9600 I had which was just a little warm as well. It actually was a little analytical with my he-6.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> With closed headphones there are, but from my experience its not that noticeable.


 
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Humans perceive different frequencies that are the same loudness to be different volumes. That didn't come out clearly...
> 
> For example, if you play a 4000 Hz tone and a 40 Hz tone both at 80dB, the 4000 Hz tone will be perceived as being louder.
> 
> This is why bass sounds better when music is played loud, and the bass seems to disappear when music is quiet. It's also why so many people are damaging their hearing today...


 

 That's good to know! Well, I will stick to my listening level. I don't want to damage my hearing just for bass.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Marantz is indeed quite warm.  Maybe even warmer than the SX-1010.  But it has a very musical nature.  I like the 2285, the SX-1010, and the Sansui 9090DB all about equally, and I like the SX-1250 just a little more, and the SX-1980 best of all.


 

 That's what I call a Pioneer fanboy!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Hmm, I'm wondering if the replacement caps are coloring the sound. Warm is the last word I would use to describe the 1010 I had. I found it to be a shade warmer than neutral. But much closer to being classified as neutral than warm. It was nothing like my marantz and not even as warm as the kenwood 9600 I had which was just a little warm as well. It actually was a little analytical with my he-6.


 
  Yes, I will agree with you mostly . Skylab is talking warm comparing to 1250 and 1980. IMHO, the typical brand list form warm to neutral is: Marantz=or >HK>Sansui=or>Kenwood>Pioneer=Yamaha (as same time lines). Of course, early models are warmer than late model as same brand. Yamaha seems no change in models. I just don't know why Kenwood is not hunted by member here, they sound damn good!!


----------



## palmfish

With output impedance ratings that are all over the map, I'm amazed that anyone can make consistent observations.
   
  Matching one of these beasts with a modern headphone and getting predictable results (satisfactory results would be too much to hope for) must involve some degree of mystical arcana and blind luck.
   
  On the bright side, they do look bitchin !


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yes, I will agree with you mostly . Skylab is talking warm comparing to 1250 and 1980. IMHO, the typical brand list form warm to neutral is: Marantz=or >HK>Sansui=or>Kenwood>Pioneer=Yamaha (as same time lines). Of course, early models are warmer than late model as same brand. Yamaha seems no change in models. I just don't know why Kenwood is not hunted by member here, they sound damn good!!


 

 Pretty much follow my experience with the vintage gear I've owned. My sansui is warm, but not as warm as the  marantz. But much warmer than the kenwood which was slightly warmer than the 1010. But even with using the modern amps I've own or heard, I would still say the 1010 I had was much closer to neutral than warm. It's even bright sounding compared to some of the modern headphone and speaker amps I've listened to. But mine was stock and a lightly used mint piece. So I could see the sound changing with a recap.
   
  I would have liked a little more warmness from mine which ultimately was one of the reasons I got rid of it. So I might prefer the one Skylab has to the one I had(if they do indeed sound different, but maybe not). But still a great sounding receiver and one of my favorites. Well I could say that about all of them. As different as they all sounded the one thing they all had in common was great sound. I've just been having so much fun going from one to the other and finding some really good gems along the way. I could never afford to go through as many modern amps as I have with these.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Yes, I will agree with you mostly . Skylab is talking warm comparing to 1250 and 1980. IMHO, the typical brand list form warm to neutral is: Marantz=or >HK>Sansui=or>Kenwood>Pioneer=Yamaha (as same time lines). Of course, early models are warmer than late model as same brand. Yamaha seems no change in models. I just don't know why Kenwood is not hunted by member here, they sound damn good!!


 

 Right!  I agree with that.  Of my own receivers, from warm to neutral:  Marantz 2285 > Sansui 9090DB > Pioneer SX-1010 > SX1250 = SX-1980


----------



## Rawrbington

my pioneer is starting to cut out on the left channel.
  it gets quiet and staticy.
  at first it was only if using the aux input.
  but now its with the tape in as well.
   
  where would one start to research or find info about what could be wrong?


----------



## Skylab

You need to deoxit all the switches and pots.  It's hopefully just that.


----------



## manveru

I had the exact same thing happening on my Sansui. Deoxit seemed to fix it right up.


----------



## Rawrbington

the one pot or switch i suspected was the actual power on/speaker selector pot.
  it gets scratchy when switcher from speaker a to speaker b to a+b to off.


----------



## Skylab

Power off, unplug, wait overnight, and then open it up, spray deoxit, and work each control multiple times immediately upon spraying it.  Then move on to the next one.


----------



## Rawrbington

does a place like Ace or home depot carry deoxit?
  or would i be better off just ordering it online?


----------



## Meewoo

Online. Cheapest local one is from Musician's friend.
   
http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-Deoxit-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328130215&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeOxIT-Liquid-Needle-Applicator/dp/B0000YH6F8/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1328130215&sr=8-10


----------



## randerson07

Radioshack carries it as well, much smaller container.
   
  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104746
   
  They carry it in store if you dont feel like ordering it.


----------



## Rawrbington

ahh good.
  whats the gold cleaner?
  nvm
   
   
  anyways i get home from work and fire up the old pioneer and it works like normal again.
  either i was still asleep when i was "experiencing" this
  or ????
  or magic
   
  not sure which but it makes the dirty pot theory seem stronger to me.
   
  this one was purchased for the purpose of learning for the most part.  so issues are kind of a good thing,  just not so soon.  need my 950 to show up before the 650 goes breasts up on me.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah of it works fine again now it's almost certainly a question of a dirty switch or pot.  No biggie.  I just cleaned all the switches on my SX-1010 which was having a channel cut out problem.  After cleaning, no problem.


----------



## Rawrbington

when i heard it work normal this afternoon i figured that was a good thing.
   
  i know a good surgeon for these types of deals.  vintage amps aren't his area of expertise but he's smart and very experienced with similar electronics ie guitar peddles, amps and compressors or w/e.
   
  so i got the 650 thinking i could learn a little and he could learn to, since i've piqued his interest in vintage gear like this.  hes a music guy, and he's a great friend of years and years with lots of equipment and tools.
   
  the bad thing is, he's been devoured by a craptastic relationship with a succubus.  and now i barely ever talk to him much less get to kick it and tinker with stuff.  =(


----------



## moodyrn

I just left Brent's house who just acquired the dark star. Along with me I brought my Au-517 and marantz 2325. First of all let me say that the ds was very, very impressive. It's without a doubt the best solid state "dedicated" headphone amp I've ever listened to. It's really in another league from the beta 22 which also sounds very good to me.
   
  I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but he was very skeptical about how good it could sound and was underwhelmed when Skylab said that it only sounded a little better than his marantz with his he-6 in his dark star review. So I was really anticipating the comparison myself. Well....to make a long story short, with the he-6, we both thought it was excellent. That really was the first thing he said when he took them off. He thought the ds was a little better in a couple of areas, but other than that he thought they pretty much sounded the same. The ds makes the he-6 sound better than anything I've heard, but the marantz is a close 2nd, and I mean a close 2nd. The ds did image a little better, and I thought it actually had more extension in the treble. But the bass on both was stellar. The midrange sounded almost identical to me. But I'm sure with extended listening we both may be able to pick out a few more differences.
   
  The thing that was most surprising to me was how good the hd800 sounded out of it. Not as good as his liquid fire, but still better than most headphone amps I've listened to. But I still say the marantz sounds better with some headphones than it do with others, so it's not a do it all amp. I did'nt even bother plugging in his lcd-2 because I knew it would be too warm. But with the right cans, I will say that it's killer


----------



## Rawrbington

man thats an endorsement for a classic marantz!
   
  im still eyeballing a local near mint 2245.  he's lowered his asking to 275$.
  if only money grew on trees.
   
  think the HP jack on the 2245 could drive something like an HE 500 or LCD2?


----------



## moodyrn

I'm not sure. Don't know how much the power is lowered with the 2245, but if I had to guess, I would say yes, but it's just a guess though. My marantz still has it's shortcomings. You really have to have the right type of cans. I actually prefer my fisher for my w3000anv.


----------



## Skylab

That's very good stuff, Moodyrn, thanks for posting that! Glad to know you guys heard things similarly to how I did.


----------



## Meewoo

@Moodyrn,
  You just increase the price of the vintage stuff and decrease the demand of $3495 Dark Star.
   
  Marantz is famous for roll off treble, it can't compare with others on treble. I hope you still have your KR-9600, and can do a A/B test. How does your Au-517 do in the contest?


----------



## moodyrn

Unfortunately I sold the kr9600. I miss it, but once I got my klipsch fortes, the fisher became my best speaker amp and the kenwood was just too massive to keep just for a headphone amp. I just didn't have anywhere to put it. But I may own it again some day since it's the best vintage receiver I've owned to date. My he-6 does have better synergy with the marantz though. I think the dark star is safe even at it's asking price. It's by far the best modern solid state headphone I've listened to. We both thought the 517 sounded very good, but not in the same league with everything else that was there including the marantz. He did say it sounded better than he was expecting and I still say it sounds as good as an 800.00-1000.00 ss headphone amp. But two of his amps fetch for more than 3000.00(I can only dream), in just in a different league.
   
  But in defense of the sansui, I haven't even opened her up yet. The thing sounded good to me out of the box, I don't even know what potential problems she may have. But the only glaring flaw it does have is a little harshness and tizziness in the treble and that may very well be a cap problem. But it doesn't have any scratchiness, hiss, or dropouts from dirty switches or pots so I've been a little slow to open her up while I do the final touches on my marantz which now is only putting one last coat of teak oil on the cabinet and waiting on my alps pot to arrive.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Call me crazy but sometimes I just like to go to the site and marvel at all the stuff they sell make.
   
  http://store.caig.com/


----------



## Wharfrat

@moodryn:
   
  You mentioned how the Marantz 2325 paired so nicely with the HE-6 and fared so well up against the DS.  I have a Marantz 2275, which I paired with my HE-5s and felt the 2275 did not bring out enough of the instrumental timbre and imaging I got with the SX-1250.  So I gather that the extra 50 amps and other aspects of the 2325's design bring it closer to being as good as some of the best modern amps out there and must thereby differ to a noticeable degree with its siblings of lesser wattage...
   
  Does anybody know whether there is a design difference between the 2275/2285 and the next big jump up in the Marantz unit line-up?


----------



## TheWuss

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I just left Brent's house who just acquired the dark star. Along with me I brought my Au-517 and marantz 2325. First of all let me say that the ds was very, very impressive. It's without a doubt the best solid state "dedicated" headphone amp I've ever listened to. It's really in another league from the beta 22 which also sounds very good to me.
> 
> I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but he was very skeptical about how good it could sound and was underwhelmed when Skylab said that it only sounded a little better than his marantz with his he-6 in his dark star review. So I was really anticipating the comparison myself. Well....to make a long story short, with the he-6, we both thought it was excellent. That really was the first thing he said when he took them off. He thought the ds was a little better in a couple of areas, but other than that he thought they pretty much sounded the same. The ds makes the he-6 sound better than anything I've heard, but the marantz is a close 2nd, and I mean a close 2nd. The ds did image a little better, and I thought it actually had more extension in the treble. But the bass on both was stellar. The midrange sounded almost identical to me. But I'm sure with extended listening we both may be able to pick out a few more differences.
> 
> The thing that was most surprising to me was how good the hd800 sounded out of it. Not as good as his liquid fire, but still better than most headphone amps I've listened to. But I still say the marantz sounds better with some headphones than it do with others, so it's not a do it all amp. I did'nt even bother plugging in his lcd-2 because I knew it would be too warm. But with the right cans, I will say that it's killer


 


 michael is correct on all counts.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  i have to say - i came away from skylabs dark star review scratching my head, and a bit disappointed.. i guess i took his "plug" of vintage amps in there as sort of dissing the DS.
   
  but, after hearing Moodyrn's vintage Marantz 2325, i now see what Skylab was talking about.
   
  the Marantz drives the HE-6 better than any amp i've personally heard that's not the Dark Star. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Yes, the DarkStar is better. But how much better? Not a whole lot.
  So i see his wisdom in extolling the virtues of something that can be had for under a grand, vs the $3500 DS.
   
  The other vintage receivers i've heard were pretty good, yes.  but they were lacking a bit in the technicalities.
  i honestly thought it was going to be more of the same with the Marantz:  fuzzy bass, high noise floor, rolled off treble, but overall musical and engaging sound.
   
  Well, when i heard the Marantz, it seemed to perform well in the technicalities as well as the musicality department.
  The first of the vintage amps that made it quite a battle with the liquid fire and dark star, to be honest.
   
  We had a fun shoot-out last night. And we both agreed the Dark Star is awesome.
  But i was amazed by the marantz. And also blown away by the new AT W3000anv. wow. what a headphone.
   
  Best sound of the night to my ears?  The audio technica driven by the cavalli. 
  i personally thought it was the best mids i've ever heard....


----------



## Skylab

I use the AT W3000ANV with my Sansui 9090DB almost every day - what a great combo that it!  Luscious


----------



## The8thst

palmfish said:


> Humans perceive different frequencies that are the same loudness to be different volumes. That didn't come out clearly...
> 
> For example, if you play a 4000 Hz tone and a 40 Hz tone both at 80dB, the 4000 Hz tone will be perceived as being louder.
> 
> This is why bass sounds better when music is played loud, and the bass seems to disappear when music is quiet. It's also why so many people are damaging their hearing today...




Here is some follow up info in case anyone is interested:
Fletcher-Munson and Robinson-Dadson are the two most popular equal loudness curves to counteract the perceived volume differences of different frequencies at different volumes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson-Dadson_curves

EQ compensation for this are implemented into most digital stereos, audio-video receivers, and car stereos under function names such as: Loud, Loudness, Audyssey Dynamic EQ, etc. This is also why most sound engineers mix music at around 85-90dB as that is where the human ear has the most consistent hearing sensitivity across the music spectrum, and it isn't loud enough to cause premature ear fatigue or permanent damage.


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> also, is it a bad idea to hook up the speakers to 2 different receivers?  and then just not play them both at the same time obviously?  that way i can switch back and forth without messing with wires? or is this a bad idea?


 


 I don't think anyone answered this question???
   
  The answer is BAD idea, very bad.    I saw a guy try it once,   the speakers sounded *terrible.*     They sounded *much better *once he disconnected the second power amp.
  I didn't stick around to see if anything was damaged.  I wouldn't be surprised if something was FUBARed.


----------



## wualta

Yes, don't do this. The _headphone jacks'_ output impedances may vary, because this was the world of analog, where rules and standards were made to be laughed at and ignored, but the _speaker-terminal_ output impedance of the class AB amps in these old receivers was almost without exception quite low, a small fraction of an ohm. Call it zero, or the equivalent of bare wire. Now imagine your amplifiers' outputs connected together on the same speaker terminals so they're trying to drive, not the speaker, but one another. If you ever wondered how your amps would enjoy having a paperclip shorting their speaker terminals, this would be the closest equivalent. Damage is almost inevitable. That's worst case, with both amps on. With only one powered up, it still wouldn't be pretty. Sort of like trying to listen to audio through a diode. Get or build a purpose-built speaker switch.
   
_UPDATE: If both amps have speaker relays that disconnect the output transistors from the speaker-outs, you might be able to get away with the proposed scheme, but the danger of making a mistake would still be too great-- for my comfort, at least._
   
  On the question of whether headphones change sound quality (SQ) at different levels, it's been partially answered: the ear (really the ear-brain, but call it the ear) is a rubber yardstick, lousy for measuring, but good at listening and picking out details from noise. So there's that variation, all the Fletcher-Munson stuff. But on top of that, yes, a headphone (or speaker or amp) has a kind of SOA, a safe operating area where the sound quality doesn't change [much] with level. You could call this the linear region-- what goes in comes out, and if it is changed, it's changed the same predictable way. Some headphones develop an edge and start to bite your ears beyond a certain SPL, which means they've been driven outside their linear region and you need to turn them down.
   
  There's another loosely-related aspect to this question, and that involves headphones or speakers that only sound good when they're loud. To me, this is a Does Not Want alarm. Either the unit in question is bass-lite, or is so nonlinear that you have to Fletcher-Munson your ears (ie, listen at a high level) to hear the whole frequency spectrum in a satisfying way. This is why auditioning a headphone or speaker you're thinking of buying at a low level, in a quiet environment, is a powerful tool. At low level you'll hear the frequencies the unit really likes to produce, because everything else will drop below audibility. If it sounds dull or bright then, it'll drive you crazy eventually, or send you diving for the tone controls. Test at high volume too, to check for the limits of that linear region, but don't neglect near-silence. Do the near-silence first. And yes, this will take a little practice to get the feel of it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Yes, don't do this. The _headphone jacks'_ output impedances may vary, because this was the world of analog, where rules and standards were made to be laughed at and ignored, but the _speaker-terminal_ output impedance of the class AB amps in these old receivers was almost without exception quite low, a small fraction of an ohm. Call it zero, or the equivalent of bare wire. Now imagine your amplifiers' outputs connected together on the same speaker terminals so they're trying to drive, not the speaker, but one another. If you ever wondered how your amps would enjoy having a paperclip shorting their speaker terminals, this would be the closest equivalent. Damage is almost inevitable. That's worst case, with both amps on. With only one powered up, it still wouldn't be pretty. Sort of like trying to listen to audio through a diode. Get or build a purpose-built speaker switch.
> 
> On the question of whether headphones change sound quality (SQ) at different levels, it's been partially answered: the ear (really the ear-brain, but call it the ear) is a rubber yardstick, lousy for measuring, but good at listening and picking out details from noise. So there's that variation, all the Fletcher-Munson stuff. But on top of that, yes, a headphone (or speaker or amp) has a kind of SOA, a safe operating area where the sound quality doesn't change [much] with level. You could call this the linear region-- what goes in comes out, and if it is changed, it's changed the same predictable way. Some headphones develop an edge and start to bite your ears beyond a certain SPL, which means they've been driven outside their linear region and you need to turn them down.
> 
> There's another loosely-related aspect to this question, and that involves headphones or speakers that only sound good when they're loud. To me, this is a Does Not Want alarm. Either the unit in question is bass-lite, or is so nonlinear that you have to Fletcher-Munson your ears (ie, listen at a high level) to hear the whole frequency spectrum in a satisfying way. This is why auditioning a headphone or speaker you're thinking of buying at a low level, in a quiet environment, is a powerful tool. At low level you'll hear the frequencies the unit really likes to produce, because everything else will drop below audibility. If it sounds dull or bright then, it'll drive you crazy eventually, or send you diving for the tone controls. Test at high volume too, to check for the limits of that linear region, but don't neglect near-silence. Do the near-silence first. And yes, this will take a little practice to get the feel of it.


 

 I always learn something from your *excellent *input!! Thanks lot!!!


----------



## wualta

Quote:


meewoo said:


> I always learn something from your *excellent *input!! Thanks lot!!!


 

 You're very kind. As always, I welcome corrections or suggestions for clarification.


----------



## Wharfrat

Wualta: Thanks for the very well stated points...It is a relief, somewhat, because now I have an approach to testing HP quality beyond just listening to what I like and deciding it sounds about right to me.


----------



## wualta

Glad to hear it!


----------



## Chris J

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Yes, don't do this. The _headphone jacks'_ output impedances may vary, because this was the world of analog, where rules and standards were made to be laughed at and ignored, but the _speaker-terminal_ output impedance of the class AB amps in these old receivers was almost without exception quite low, a small fraction of an ohm. Call it zero, or the equivalent of bare wire. Now imagine your amplifiers' outputs connected together on the same speaker terminals so they're trying to drive, not the speaker, but one another. If you ever wondered how your amps would enjoy having a paperclip shorting their speaker terminals, this would be the closest equivalent. Damage is almost inevitable. That's worst case, with both amps on. With only one powered up, it still wouldn't be pretty. Sort of like trying to listen to audio through a diode. Get or build a purpose-built speaker switch.


 
   
  deleted..........my original post sounded too pedantic


----------



## Skylab

Thought you guys might appreciate my latest project - custom black Pioneer RT-707 in custom walnut case:


----------



## Meewoo

You really need to find a SX-5590 to pair it!!


----------



## Skylab

I know what you mean! But actually that RT-707 is for my main/modern hi-Fi, which is all black.  I have a silver one with my SX-1980


----------



## wotts

Amazing! Did you pick that up locally? I've looked at the R-t-R stuff on the local CL since folks have talked about it on here. I am not sure I would use one if I did buy one. Is it hard to source material?

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thought you guys might appreciate my latest project - custom black Pioneer RT-707 in custom walnut case:


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Amazing! Did you pick that up locally? I've looked at the R-t-R stuff on the local CL since folks have talked about it on here. I am not sure I would use one if I did buy one. Is it hard to source material?


 

 Yes - the guy that sells them on EBay is 15 minutes from my house. I called him up and worked a deal for one directly. He custom makes these units - full refurb plus 1 year warranty in addition to the black faceplate. Good stuff.

 I had already had someone make me a custom walnut case, since I have a silver RT-707 as well. I like the silver one best in my vintage rig, but my modern rig is all black, and I wanted a black one for that rig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  You can buy pre-recorded reels on ebay, sometimes the prices are insanely high, but sometimes cheaper than LP or CD   And RTR sounds great.


----------



## wotts

My poor wallet....


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thought you guys might appreciate my latest project - custom black Pioneer RT-707 in custom walnut case:


 

 Very nice Rob!!
   
  I've got a chance to buy a Marantz 2500 (no wood case), fully functional and nice cosmetics.  Anybody know what a fair price is on these today?


----------



## Skylab

There is a mint one on eBay with no wood case right now that's already $1400.  It's been cleaned but not restored.  I don't think I've ever seen one sell for less than $1K.


----------



## moodyrn

That's beautiful Skylab!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is a mint one on eBay with no wood case right now that's already $1400.  It's been cleaned but not restored.  I don't think I've ever seen one sell for less than $1K.


 


  Am trying to decide if I need this one.  I know the seller and he is very trustworthy.  Already have a Marantz 3800 pre and 510M amp.  Decisions, decisions..........


----------



## Skylab

I've often thought of getting one and selling my 2285.  The 2500 is beautiful.  That scope alone makes it worth it aesthetically. And the 2500 is truly the Monster Marantz.  I'd say go for it!


----------



## BmWr75

Meet my new girlfriend.


----------



## dogwan

Ooooooh, does she have a twin sister?

  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Meet my new girlfriend.


----------



## Skylab

WOW! Scott she's a beauty!!!! Very, very nice.  Glad you went for it


----------



## francisdemarte

One hot mama!


----------



## Rawrbington

that thing looks amazing.
  what does the little square screen on the left do?


----------



## Skylab

It's a scope.  Part of what makes the 2500 a very sought after receiver.  Über cool!
   
  You know you are going to have to get a wood cabinet for that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The good news is there are a lot of people making really nice reproduction cabinets so it's not as hard to get a nice cabinet as it used to be.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Meet my new girlfriend.


 

 Beautiful!   Can you post some close ups of the controls, for instance the "Mode" and "Tone Mode"  those look interesting.


----------



## BmWr75

Be glad to when she arrives. The photo posted is from the seller.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Meet my new girlfriend.


 

 And she's super hot!! Better keep her close. That's probably the best looking receiver I've seen so far, and at 250wpc, I'm sure she sounds as good as she looks. Congrats on a great find.


----------



## henree

Can some recommend a Sansui that would sound good with Denon D7000 headphones. Right now I have a Marantz 2215. Which I love, but I have been curious about the Sansui sound.


----------



## Rawrbington

how are the 7000s with the 2215?


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





henree said:


> Can some recommend a Sansui that would sound good with Denon D7000 headphones. Right now I have a Marantz 2215. Which I love, but I have been curious about the Sansui sound.


 


  Depends on how you like your sound signature.  I've heard Sansui amps and receivers from different generations. 
 I think a nice match for the Denon would be a G series receiver, or AU-717/719.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Meet my new girlfriend.


 

 I dropped in to take another look!


----------



## Rawrbington

ummm...
  wow
  theres a marantz 2600 on ebay for 12,000$
   
  does it double as a flux capacitor?


----------



## Skylab

That auction has sparked a very lively discussion over on AudioKarma.  I don't think the seller expects it to sell for that.  He is fishing.  Note that it is a best offer auction, and that it's already quite a few days old.  It might not sell for half that.
   
  As I understand it, anyway, the 2500 is basically the same as the 2600, and so buying a 2500 (already an expensive proposition at $2K or so normally) is the far better way to go!


----------



## Rawrbington

i have to admit its a incredible looking piece of equipment.  both it and the 2500.  do those high high end marantz keep the same warm sound as the lower end models like the 2215 or 2245?
   
  now im much less excited for my 950 to get here after seeing those peices.


----------



## palmfish

And to think people were throwing these things away just a few years ago! Beautiful, they just don't make them like that anymore.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> And to think people were throwing these things away just a few years ago! Beautiful, they just don't make them like that anymore.


 


  This is so true.  I know I've mentioned this before but it highlights your point.  I got a Marantz 2215B in pristine condition at a garage sale for $5 dollars awhile back.  The guy really just gave it to me to get it "out of his garage".  It was the end of the day and no one had been interested in it.  You can imagine now how my neck snaps whenever I pass a tag sale wondering what  might be lurking amongst the salt shakers and old spoons...

 I love that Marantz 2215B so nice and warm...


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i have to admit its a incredible looking piece of equipment.  both it and the 2500.  do those high high end marantz keep the same warm sound as the lower end models like the 2215 or 2245?


 

 I have a 2385 which is the model below the 2500. It's much warmer than my 1980 when using the HE6.


----------



## 5aces

Big 'G' 33000 Sansui (300 Watts RMS) for sale over on CAM if you want to oogle...(wishful thinking price $4,700 but rare,nice piece):

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648980670-sansui_g_33000_the_holy_grail__of_monster_receivers/

Nice,clean Sansui AU 20000,priced right too $1,400:

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648980969-sansui_au20000/
This one is tempting,not far from me if you want help,he won't ship p/u only...

Both of these will pound on comparable Marantz all day...(my biased opinion only)


----------



## Skylab

Classicaudio.com has listed a 33000 as "awaiting restoration" - I can only imagine what they will want for that when fully restored...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Classicaudio.com has listed a 33000 as "awaiting restoration" - I can only imagine what they will want for that when fully restored...


 


  what you didnt send the check yet.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I bet you reserved it though


----------



## Skylab

Would love to hear how that bad boy compares to my SX-1980.  But I'm guessing that 33000 will be in a range I don't want to pay.


----------



## Meewoo

@5aces,
  That AU-20000 is killing me!! What a masterpiece!!
   
   
  I know I like integrate more than receiver,  but I do believe AU-20000 is more beautiful than G-33000.


----------



## Rawrbington

FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY WATTS?!?!?!?!?!
   
   
  i agree with you meewoo but the G330000 has a breathtaking hiney


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





frank i said:


> what you didnt send the check yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah Skylab, you know you want to.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> That AU-20000 is killing me!! What a masterpiece!!




This is a moment in time that speaks "strike while the iron is hot".

Very good price on what appears to be a pristine AU 20000.

I'd like to see you with one Meewoo,seems you've had a boatload of amplifiers in your day!

The G 33000 price does include domestic shipping within Canada and also appears unspoiled.

Sansui BA 5000 300 Watt Power Amplifiers by themselves have been known to eclipse the price of this atom bomb receiver. 

Once these go,probably very soon,they will no doubt be squirreled away for a very long time.


----------



## Meewoo

Thanks lot, 5aces!! It's really such opportunity as you said!
   
  But I think I am going to pass this time. (if it's near me, I will definitely go for it)  My ultimate setup  goal is Rotel RB-5000 and RC-5000.


----------



## henree

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how are the 7000s with the 2215?


 


  I love the sound. Very rich and has a surprising amount of Prat. When I listen to anything rythmical the 2215 really shines.


----------



## wotts

One of my friends dropped off a RTR to me over the weekend. I've spent hours looking for information on it, but have yet to find anything. Anyone have an idea? Or perhaps know where I might go to find out something about it?


----------



## Skylab

Pretty ancient looking RTR.  Does it work?


----------



## wotts

I'm not sure. I haven't tried it yet. He gave me a few tapes, but truth be told, I haven't a clue as to how it works. I only played with it for a short while. I'll give it another crack tonight. I'm guessing it is a 60's era 'portable' due to the handle on the top of the case and the built in speaker. It uses AC power and has 5 tubes. One of which is a magic eye!


----------



## Skylab

Ahhh...the Magic Eye tube...such a cool thing!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Big 'G' 33000 Sansui (300 Watts RMS) for sale over on CAM if you want to oogle...(wishful thinking price $4,700 but rare,nice piece):
> 
> http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648980670-sansui_g_33000_the_holy_grail__of_monster_receivers/
> Nice,clean Sansui AU 20000,priced right too $1,400:
> ...





> *Both of these will pound on comparable Marantz all day...(my biased opinion only)*


 
   
  You do know that going from 250 WPC to 500 WPC only increases speaker output by 3 dB??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The exact same loudness increase as going from 1 watt to 2 watts.


----------



## 5aces

Not meaning to rain on the Marantz parade,only way to settle it might be a church hall shoot-out!
I rather enjoy my Marantz product.
Marantz has the 2385 to hang with the Sansui Integrated AU 20000 and I simply prefer the Sansui when hooked up to a pair of JBL speakers.

I will add that my experience revealed Marantz amplification was not always a good pairing with some JBL speakers.
Case in point,is how I came to purchase a set of JBL L112's.
The lad was beside himself using a vintage Marantz Power Amplifier to play Orchestral music through the JBL's and just despised the sound.
Couldn't wait to be rid of the speakers,he loved his amplifier though.
Of course when I hooked them to a Sansui Amp and played my Rock music,all was well in the sound garden.

These types of throw downs are always speaker dependant.
I prefer a wild and wooly sound and Sansui dishes that out for me,when I want it.
Marantz has it's own classic sound,there is no questioning that and it's one I like hearing or I wouldn't own any of the product.
300 good classic watts gets you into that A-10 Warthog Jet territory,the sound waves rip from that 30mm gatling gun or the Amplifier,either way it's unmistakable and memorable.

Now to clarify the *'pound*' comment,without getting technical.
If two different amplifiers are close in watts RMS,many distinctions still prevail in the selection of parts and engineering.
Even if the actual current draw from the wall is higher on one amplifier,a person may figure they 'hear' more depth,bass and reserve on tap.
Lower frequencies could be equal but mids and highs may come across more pronounced.
One amplifier might seem to run out of juice at the higher volume levels,mids and highs still cranking but to someone out there a definite difference in sound.
When you run an amplifier at realistic sound levels you perhaps have something a musically inclined person likes.
Being silly means taking the volume level to ridiculous heights and hearing when a musical performance with lots of kick will suffer on the speakers.
Eventually,one amp will *pound* on the other...and your mind will be made up.

Horror of horrors,I've never been a rabid Sansui 'G' Receiver fan but in a large venue,the 33000 receiver will not run out of gas and still sound great when the volume is up.

If I had to bring one receiver to a party,it would be the Sansui G 33000.
Got to go with the separate power amplifier section,easier on the back to get the beast set up for a crowd. 

If you can get a Technics SA-1000,Marantz Model 2600 and a Sansui G 33000 together for a showdown,I'd fly in to hear it...


----------



## BmWr75

I have JBL L112s too, one of my favorite vintage speakers and on my "never sell" list.
   
  If I didn't just buy the Marantz 2500.....I'd be all over that Sansui AU22000, she's a beaut!!


----------



## Rawrbington

got my pioneer today!
  so far its awesome.  sounds fantastic.

   
  really need to find a good budget solution for my gear.  need a rack or stand or something with 2 shelves at least


----------



## WarriorAnt

I haven't tried this rack myself but another Head-fier brought it to my attention.  Looks like a good price considering how outrageous some racks are now running.
   
  http://www.cymax.com/VTI-BL304-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack.htm


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> got my pioneer today!
> so far its awesome.  sounds fantastic.
> 
> 
> really need to find a good budget solution for my gear.  need a rack or stand or something with 2 shelves at least


 

 Wow! It looks fantastic too!


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I haven't tried this rack myself but another Head-fier brought it to my attention.  Looks like a good price considering how outrageous some racks are now running.
> 
> http://www.cymax.com/VTI-BL304-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack.htm


 

 I've been looking for a decent affordable rack as well. This is the cheapest thing I've been able to find, unless I come across some random piece of furniture that has the right dimensions:
   
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SMA3&variation=BLK


----------



## Rawrbington

oh man i love both of those racks.
   
  the only question is  will the one you posted manveru hold a 50+ pound receiver?
   
  i would hate to have it cash its check in the middle of a listening session!


----------



## BmWr75

Hard to beat this rack for the price.  I have one and it is sturdy and decent looking.
   
http://www.avalive.com/Sanus/EFA31-B1/143133/productDetail.php?utm_source=googleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=EFA31-B1


----------



## WarriorAnt

[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/f8/100x100px-LS-f8150701_TheForgingoftheRingbyCorBlok.jpeg[/img]
 
 manveru 
 /custom/huddle/headfi/img/badges/badge_100.v1305918899.png
  
 *online*
 
 370 Posts. Joined 10/2011
 Location: Southern California, USA
 


    
  Quote: 





> I've been looking for a decent affordable rack as well. This is the cheapest thing I've been able to find, unless I come across some random piece of furniture that has the right dimensions:
> 
> http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SMA3&variation=BLK





   



   
   
  I actually made two racks like that.  I got the rods, the washers, the nuts from the Home Depot (in silver) cut the wood to size.  They are in my garage right now ( and covered in stuff) waiting for me to finally finish painting my house.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Hard to beat this rack for the price.  I have one and it is sturdy and decent looking.
> 
> http://www.avalive.com/Sanus/EFA31-B1/143133/productDetail.php?utm_source=googleBase&utm_medium=feed&utm_content=EFA31-B1


 

 I like that one!  Best price so far.


----------



## Rawrbington

i wonder how much space is between each rack?  the pioneer is just shy of 7 inches tall


----------



## Skylab

Great looking Pioneer, Rawrbington! Congrats.


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks!
  up next is either LCD2 or HE 500.  should sound nice off the pioneer.  i figure it has the juice for them.
  but it would be a HUGE bonus if either will play nicely with my woo wa2.  think the it can power either of those?


----------



## Skylab

I thought the LCD-2 sounded quite good with the WA2.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> oh man i love both of those racks.
> 
> the only question is  will the one you posted manveru hold a 50+ pound receiver?
> 
> i would hate to have it cash its check in the middle of a listening session!


 

 The specs claim it can take 150 lbs per shelf, and their heights are adjustable.
   
  The Sanus looks good too, haven't seen it for that cheap anywhere else. It would be awesome to build one as well, but my DIY skills are pretty miniscule.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





manveru said:


> The specs claim it can take 150 lbs per shelf, and their heights are adjustable.
> 
> The Sanus looks good too, haven't seen it for that cheap anywhere else. It would be awesome to build one as well, but my DIY skills are pretty miniscule.


 


 awesome.  the adjustable shelf is big time.  being able to pull the bottom one up off the ground a hair would be nice.
   
  i've thought about building one or even a headphone stand and then i remembered i have a difficult time putting together a desk from walmart


----------



## Skylab

I finally got around to replacing the lamps in my Marantz 2440 with blue LEDs.  It looks MUCH better now, and is a better match with my 2285 (which already had LEDs put in).  I highly recommend this for Marantz owners.


----------



## jc9394

Rob, it is difficult to replace the lamp?  I'm going to order a set for 2265B


----------



## Skylab

The fuse-type lamps are incredibly easy to replace.  These are the ones I bought:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-LED-Custom-Made-Blue-Fuse-Lamps-7-PACK-/250966474271
   
  Just take the cover off, unscrew the small circuit board holding the lamp and holder, pop out the only one, put the new one in, making sure the LED will be facing the meter, screw back together.  Done.


----------



## RexAeterna

awesome blue lights on the marantz gear!

while you guys like getting receivers. i like picking up power amps and separates sometimes. today i got lucky and scored a Yamaha M-45 power amp and only paid 40 bucks for it. it was dirty on the inside and out but it works. it was tested at the trading post i bought it from and brought it home and cleaned it up. powerful and very clean and natural sounding amp. it was late when i got back so i tested speakers for few minutes and ran it in class A and it ran super cool in class A. lot cooler than my yamaha R-9 does. noise floor is insanely good......right now i have pair of Sony SA5000 hooked up to the speaker outputs of speaker B and the background noise is dead quiet. really impressive for a very sensitive headphone. 

running it straight off my balanced Echo Audiofire 2 balanced outputs. has more then enough voltage since input sensitivity of the yamaha is only 1.14v@20k ohms and my interface at +4db balanced/professional mode has a 1.23v@47k ohm output so i should defiantly be driving the power amp more then fine for now till i pick up a good preamp for it. cool thing is not only i can drive it direct from the power amp alone is that is have volume/level controls for the left and right channel separatw so i don't have to rely on digital volume control from my interface.


----------



## Skylab

Just googled it, looks like a pretty awesome score for $40! Well done.


----------



## Rawrbington

Wow Rob!
  im in love with that marantz combo.
   
  but where do you find room for all your stuff?!?!
   
  what are these two things for exactly?
  they're labeled pre out and power in


----------



## Skylab

That's in case you want to use the receiver either just as a tuner/preamp, or just as a power amp.
   
  That Marantz stuff is in my office.  I have a lot of gear for sure, but it's all pretty neatly racked and shelved, and most of it is in the attic where my office is, and where the "man cave" with all the Pioneer stuff is (it's finished loft-style), and the basement, where there is a rec room. My wife has the formal living room, dining room, and kitchen free of audio


----------



## Rawrbington

whichever room you have Jerry in is increidble!  and i love the lava lamp.
   
  if i wanted to use a pre amp with the pioneer would i use one of those?  or just run the pre into  the aux?


----------



## Skylab

That depends what you want to accomplish.  If you want to use the receiver just as a power amp, and not have its volume control active, then you would go into the "main in" jacks.


----------



## Rawrbington

ahh.  yeah thats what i wanted to do.
  but the 950 must not have that feature.  no "main in", just "power in" and "pre out".


----------



## RexAeterna

rawrbington said:


> er-owners/4095#post_8132780"]
> 
> 
> if i wanted to use a pre amp with the pioneer would i use one of those?  or just run the pre into  the aux?




no.

the main-in allows you to use other preamps with the receiver's power amp section. the pre-outs lets you use the receiver as a dedicated preamp with other power amps.


----------



## Skylab

Main in and power in are the same thing.


----------



## Rawrbington

oh they are?
  hooray!
   
  are you sure?
  heres a better picture:

   
  i just don't want to destroy something, namely my wa2 lol


----------



## 5aces

bmwr75 said:


> If I didn't just buy the Marantz 2500.....I'd be all over that Sansui AU22000, she's a beaut!!




 

Sansui AU 20000 sold today after 13 days in the system.

Here's a couple .gifs,one is avatar size,even though it's the Model 2600...
Maybe that 250 watts can tame the titanium tweeter in the JBL's.

The G 33000 @ $4,700 looks good (better condition) compared to this one on stereolist.com,even though it is listed as restored:


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i wonder how much space is between each rack?  the pioneer is just shy of 7 inches tall


 


  8" I think is the spacing on the Sanus rack.  You can buy 12" poles in sets of 4-5 too, that is what I did to make the spacing on one shelf bigger.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The fuse-type lamps are incredibly easy to replace.  These are the ones I bought:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-LED-Custom-Made-Blue-Fuse-Lamps-7-PACK-/250966474271
> 
> Just take the cover off, unscrew the small circuit board holding the lamp and holder, pop out the only one, put the new one in, making sure the LED will be facing the meter, screw back together.  Done.


 


  Great, I will get a set and post pic when it is done.


----------



## colinharding

Had a few Dynacno SCA-35 integrated amps.  Really nice if you replace all their caps with vintage aerovox v161 or cornell dubilier greenies.  Very nice amp with a great sound.


----------



## Skylab

That's the tube integrated, right?  That is a highly sought after piece for modding, just as you said.


----------



## colinharding

That's it! I believe it's a quad of el84 with 2 12ax7 for the amp stage and then two 12ax7 for the phono stage. It is exactly the same as an ST 35, but that is just the amp.  A lot of people don't seem to realize this and end up paying quite a bit for the highly sought after ST when they could have saved a few bucks and gotten the SCA version.  There was a vintage Lafayette integrated amplifier that sounded surprisingly good as well.  It had about 6 12ax7's in it and a "bridge" for a center channel, but I cannot for the life of me remember what it was called.  Also had a preamp version of that integrated that is wonderful sounding i think it is called a Lafayette KT315 and it is a really impressive preamp for its size.  Of course 99 percent of all their other gear is terrible but these two really do shine.  
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LAFAYETTE-KT315-STEREO-TUBE-PREAMP-MADE-IN-1959-USES-12AX7-TUBES-NO-TONE-CONTROL/290667602103#ht_500wt_1287
   
  That should be a pic of the preamp I'm referencing.


----------



## BmWr75

How's this for something different?  A buddy on AudioKarma built a SET amp inside this old HP Oscillator case.  To quote the builder:
   
_"SINGLE ENDED, ULTRA LINEAR.
(6AV5's are a hot ticket TV tube, in triode similar to 2A3 specs)

STEREO, 5.5 WATT AMPLIFIER.

TV TUBE. SEUL.

SOLID CURRENT ON OUTPUTS WITH LED BIAS ON DRIVER.

SCHADE FEEDBACK, PLATE TO PLATE/GRID. (LOCAL FBK)

It uses binding posts on the front, has new rca inputs, all the supply
caps and resistors, almost everything but this classic chassis is new."_
   
  You can read more about it here:  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=376120


----------



## wotts

That is pretty awesome. I think I'll have to dig through my tubes and see if I have some of those 6AV5s around. I bet that would be a fun project.
  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> How's this for something different?  A buddy on AudioKarma built a SET amp inside this old HP Oscillator case.  To quote the builder:
> 
> _"SINGLE ENDED, ULTRA LINEAR.
> (6AV5's are a hot ticket TV tube, in triode similar to 2A3 specs)
> ...


 
   
   
  So the guy I picked my HPM-110s from has a Sansui G8000 and a Marantz 4340 he's looking to sell as well. Either one worth looking at?


----------



## BmWr75

Got the amp hooked up this morning with a Marantz 3200 preamp.  This flea-watt amp sounds great through some high efficiency speakers, Tyler Acoustic PD-10s in this case.


----------



## 5aces

What was your draw to this particular config?

How much gain will that amplifier take matched to the PD 10's?

Everytime I see a subwoofer,a scene conjures up from a recent comedy sketch.
A man was arrested for having 5 wives,the comic recanted: "I suppose he wanted to be nagged in surround sound and hear all the complaints travel around his head"
The largest size wife stood near his feet,she was the woofer,all she did was go Bwap Bwap Bwap Blah Blah Blah.
Stand up comics come up with some peculiar outlooks.


----------



## BmWr75

The subwoofer is part of my home theater and it not in this 2-channel system.
   
  Am not sure how to answer either of your questions.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Everytime I see a subwoofer,a scene conjures up from a recent comedy sketch.
> A man was arrested for having 5 wives,the comic recanted: "I suppose he wanted to be nagged in surround sound and hear all the complaints travel around his head"
> The largest size wife stood near his feet,she was the woofer,all she did was go Bwap Bwap Bwap Blah Blah Blah.
> Stand up comics come up with some peculiar outlooks.


----------



## 5aces

bmwr75 said:


> Am not sure how to answer either of your questions.




Putting it another way,did you buy the amplifier for the tubes/schematics or the original case/looks?

Using the Marantz as a preamplifier,what volume setting would you normally dial when listening to the PD-10's?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Putting it another way,did you buy the amplifier for the tubes/schematics or the original case/looks?
> Using the Marantz as a preamplifier,what volume setting would you normally dial when listening to the PD-10's?


 


  I bought the PD-10s from the seller first......and bought the amp as an after-thought because it is unique.  The seller built it by hand in this old Hewlett-Packard oscillator case.  One day I'd like to turn it into an integrated amp if I can figure out how to make the large round dial on front turn a volume pot.
   
  The preamp volume knob was on about 10-11 o'clock I think this morning when I had it turned up to a nice listening level.  However, that is really a meaningless setting in the overall scheme of things.
   
  Here are a couple of pictures of what it looked like inside as the builder was constructing it.


----------



## Rawrbington

whats the best way to fashion a homemade FM antennae for a receiver?


----------



## Skylab

Just go buy a folded dipole.  They can be had for just a few dollars.


----------



## Rawrbington

thanks skylab.  does it matter if i fix it to the 300 or 75 ohm post?
   
  hate to keep asking stupid questions
  but is there any reason i shouldn't bi-wire my mission speakers?
  i just ran 2 wires out of each + and - for Right and Left channels.
  i don't even know if thats how you're supposed to do it.
   
  sounds ok  as long as my pioneer doesn't start smoking tonight


----------



## 5aces

Way back here in the thread,antennas were briefly mentioned.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/3195#post_7887125


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> whats the best way to fashion a homemade FM antennae for a receiver?


 


  A piece of speaker wire will do in a pinch.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thanks skylab.  does it matter if i fix it to the 300 or 75 ohm post?
> 
> hate to keep asking stupid questions
> but is there any reason i shouldn't bi-wire my mission speakers?
> ...


 

 How is your pioneer hooked up to the speakers using biwiring?  You are not by chance doing this by using both the A and B speaker outputs are you?  If yes, stop now and go back to single wires because you may be bypassing the cross-over in the speakers and sending a full range signal to your tweeters, which will fry them.


----------



## Rawrbington

im only using speaker A
  Right speaker
  high + and low +  <-------------------------   pioneer Right +
  high- and low- <------------------------------pioneer Right -
   
  Left speaker
  H+ and L +  <--------------------------------- pioneer Left+
  H- and L- <------------------------------------ pioneer Left-


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> How is your pioneer hooked up to the speakers using biwiring?  You are not by chance doing this by using both the A and B speaker outputs are you?  If yes, stop now and go back to single wires because you may be bypassing the cross-over in the speakers and sending a full range signal to your tweeters, which will fry them.


 


   
  Scott I am not sure what you are saying.  If the speaker is designed for bi-wiring, using the A for one and the B for the other is no different than bi wiring just from A in terms of the crossover. If the speaker is designed for biwiring, there is no danger to the tweeter with this hookup.
   
  HOWEVER, it still may not be a good idea, if you are using the A and B separately for each section, the amp/receiver might be seeing a lower total impedance, as this really isn't a biwire it is more of a bi-amp.  That really depends on how the speaker crossover is set up when biwiring or biamping.


----------



## Rawrbington

The speaker wire worked pretty good for the antenna.  not cd quality but will work for my morning routine of NPR while showering and eating breakfast.
   
  do i understand the bi wiring correctly that its basically 2 negatives in each negative post on speaker A and then 2 positives in each positve of speaker A?


----------



## BmWr75

You are wired up just fine.  The benefits of bi-wiring are suspect.  Are the two sets of posts on the speaker still tied together with a metal strap or connected via short interconnects?  If you had specified the model of your Mission speakers, I'd have looked this up.
   
  I personally don't have any experience with speakers that can be bi-wired.  I do have many speakers that can be bi-amped though, by-passing the internal cross-over.  Bi-amps in a whole nother thing and requires an external active crossover or a receiver that had adjustable crossovers internally.


----------



## RexAeterna

bmwr75 said:


> A piece of speaker wire will do in a pinch.




that's what i use. just plain bare wire for listening to the radio, but i always wondered what it'll be like to jack my neighbors huge antennae on his house that's just sitting there and not being used. i guess i be getting some killer signal with it.


----------



## Skylab

Well, there again, there is bi-amping using a speaker that is designed for that, in which case no external crossover is needed, and then there is bi amping a speaker that isn't.  My B&W N800 and N805, and many other modern speakers, have a high input and a low input for either biwiring or biamping.  In that case, you are accessing the crossover at the right point, not bypassing it.  I bi amp my N800's straight from the amps, and that is how they are designed.  No external crossover needed, and in fact it would be a problem to use one.
   
  My vintage speakers, though, all have only one set of inputs, and cannot be biwired or biamped.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> You are wired up just fine.  The benefits of bi-wiring are suspect.  Are the two sets of posts on the speaker still tied together with a metal strap or connected via short interconnects?  If you had specified the model of your Mission speakers, I'd have looked this up.


 
  yeah i can see how they would be suspect.  I **think** i **might** have noticed a little better bass presence or response.  perhaps a tiny bit more separation.  but that could very well be all in my head!
  
  i took out the jumper between the posts on the speaker.
  the manual for the missions explained well enough how to wire them at the speaker.  but then didn't say much of anything about what to do with the wires at the amp.  so i kinda read and then just guessed.
   
  they's just some lowly mission MX1's


----------



## BmWr75

You are good to go.  These speakers are biwirable.
   
http://www.missionspeakersusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Mission_mx1
   
  This is a vintage amp/receiver thread, so that is why I was concerned about how you had wired up the system.


----------



## Rawrbington

my question is how does that not bridge down the amp?
  
  my experience comes from car audio and i guess it could be different but, if i were to take 2 4 ohm subs or 1 dual 8 ohm voice coil sub and run them both out of the same channel it would drop the impedance.  why does that not happen with bi wiring?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> my question is how does that not bridge down the amp?
> 
> my experience comes from car audio and i guess it could be different but, if i were to take 2 4 ohm subs or 1 dual 8 ohm voice coil sub and run them both out of the same channel it would drop the impedance.  why does that not happen with bi wiring?


 

 It is all dependent on how the speaker is wired inside.  Bottom-line is does it sound better to you bi-wired?  If yes, that is all that matters.


----------



## sluker

Skylab,
  I have a set of B&W CM1's which have the posts for bi-wiring/amping but I am not sure if they are Hi/Low input. How does one tell? Could I run my Sansui and Pioneer into the speakers and bi amp them (both are fed from the same DAC through an audio switch)? Does it matter which amp is connected to the top vs. bottom jacks?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, there again, there is bi-amping using a speaker that is designed for that, in which case no external crossover is needed, and then there is bi amping a speaker that isn't.  My B&W N800 and N805, and many other modern speakers, have a high input and a low input for either biwiring or biamping.  In that case, you are accessing the crossover at the right point, not bypassing it.  I bi amp my N800's straight from the amps, and that is how they are designed.  No external crossover needed, and in fact it would be a problem to use one.
> 
> My vintage speakers, though, all have only one set of inputs, and cannot be biwired or biamped.


----------



## Skylab

I am virtually certain that you could bi amp the CM1's.  Note that if you did, you MUST remove the gold strap that connects the two sets of outputs first.
   
  However, the way You suggested to do it would be very wonky.  You would have the volume on one amp controlling the treble and one controlling the bass! That isn't really workable IMO.  And frankly I don't see the benefit.


----------



## Rawrbington

found a Pioneer Pl 55X on craigslist locally.
  guy wants 50$ for it,
  claims its in perfect condition and the pictures from what i can tell its at least in decent condition.
   
  gonna try to swoop it up before anyone else here finds it.  cause i think thats a really nice price if it is in nice shape.
   
  im hoping it will mate nicely with my 950


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am virtually certain that you could bi amp the CM1's.  Note that if you did, you MUST remove the gold strap that connects the two sets of outputs first.
> 
> However, the way You suggested to do it would be very wonky.  You would have the volume on one amp controlling the treble and one controlling the bass! That isn't really workable IMO.  And frankly I don't see the benefit.


 


  I concur with Skylab on this topic.  Stick with one vintage receiver per pair of speakers!!


----------



## wotts

I feel "enabled" to get more speakers and receivers now. Might go after the Sansui G8000 that the guy I bought my HPM-100s from has.

  
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I concur with Skylab on this topic.  Stick with one vintage receiver per pair of speakers!!


----------



## Skylab

The G-8000 sure looks killer! Never heard one though.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I feel "enabled" to get more speakers and receivers now. Might go after the Sansui G8000 that the guy I bought my HPM-100s from has.


 
  I would say G-8000 is a very good 120wpc receiver. I have one, but has little time to dig it. In 100-120wpc receiver category, I have G-8000, Sanyo JCX-9000, Setton RS-660, Pioneer SX-1010, Kenwood KR-9400 and KR-8050, JVC Jr-s501, and Rotel rx1203, I had SX-1050 too. They are all stocked one, and I think they are all very solid receivers with Sanyo's at a lower league. G-8000 sounds like Sansui Au-517 with a little neutral sound than early Sansui models but warmer than later Sansui models. I had a chance to pick one from G-8000, G-9700 and SX-1010 at seller's house, and I picked G-8000 with my AKG q-701 headphones after auditing all three there. I bought my SX-1010 later. G-x700 has very fancy looks, but I like G-8000 with my Q-701 more. I would say G-8000 is very solid build and can be a center piece for serious stereo setup.


----------



## sluker

Whats the going rate for a refurbished G-8000? My repair guy has one for $745.
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I would say G-8000 is a very good 120wpc receiver. I have one, but has little time to dig it. In 100-120wpc receiver category, I have G-8000, Sanyo JCX-9000, Setton RS-660, Pioneer SX-1010, Kenwood KR-9400 and KR-8050, and Rotel rx1203, I had SX-1050 too. They are all stocked one, and I think they are all very solid receivers with Sanyo's at a lower league. G-8000 sounds like Sansui Au-517 with a little neutral sound than early Sansui models but warmer than later Sansui models. I had a chance to pick one from G-8000, G-9700 and SX-1010 at seller's house, and I picked G-8000 with my AKG q-701 headphones after auditing all three there. I bought my SX-1010 later. G-x700 has very fancy looks, but I like G-8000 with my Q-701 more. I would say G-8000 is very solid build and can be a center piece for serious stereo setup.


----------



## sluker

Thanks,
  I did not think about the volume matching issue. 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am virtually certain that you could bi amp the CM1's.  Note that if you did, you MUST remove the gold strap that connects the two sets of outputs first.
> 
> However, the way You suggested to do it would be very wonky.  You would have the volume on one amp controlling the treble and one controlling the bass! That isn't really workable IMO.  And frankly I don't see the benefit.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sluker said:


> Whats the going rate for a refurbished G-8000? My repair guy has one for $745.


 
  I think you can refer the price of Pionner SX-1050, I don't follow the prices for receivers for a long time. But according to AKers, 2010 is year for Sansui 9090, and 2011 is for Sansui G-9000 and G-8000. Clearly, not many G-xx000s have been on ePay. In my experience, G-8000 or G-9000 are more rare than SX-1050 or SX-1250.


----------



## wotts

Quote:


meewoo said:


> I would say G-8000 is a very good 120wpc receiver. I have one, but has little time to dig it. In 100-120wpc receiver category, I have G-8000, Sanyo JCX-9000, Setton RS-660, Pioneer SX-1010, Kenwood KR-9400 and KR-8050, JVC Jr-s501, and Rotel rx1203, I had SX-1050 too. They are all stocked one, and I think they are all very solid receivers with Sanyo's at a lower league. G-8000 sounds like Sansui Au-517 with a little neutral sound than early Sansui models but warmer than later Sansui models. I had a chance to pick one from G-8000, G-9700 and SX-1010 at seller's house, and I picked G-8000 with my AKG q-701 headphones after auditing all three there. I bought my SX-1010 later. G-x700 has very fancy looks, but I like G-8000 with my Q-701 more. I would say G-8000 is very solid build and can be a center piece for serious stereo setup.


 


 I will definitely need to call him about it then. He has a four channel Marantz, but I forget the model...4340 or something.
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The G-8000 sure looks killer! Never heard one though.


 


  They guy is the original owner, and if it's in the condition the speakers are in, MAN, it will be nice.


  Quote: 





sluker said:


> Whats the going rate for a refurbished G-8000? My repair guy has one for $745.


 

 FWIW, this one, as I mentioned, is not restored, but in good working order, and the seller wants $450.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds Classic in Rockford is selling a "restored" (which for them means cleaned and checked, not recapped) G-9000 for $850.  I would say $450 for a G-8000 in great condition would be a very fair price.


----------



## hawkhead

Here from the HE-6 thread
   
  I picked my $7 receiver ( a few miles from home but after a much longer journey via a relative of the seller)
   

   
   
  First stage of the clean up after a very gentle vacuum
   

   
   
   
  The front is in great shape with a thick film of dirt - some of the lettering has been worn away - not sure what to do about that
   
  The sad thing is that to replace all the fuse lamps is going to cost more than the receiver!!


----------



## wotts

You did an excellent job cleaning that up. Looks very nice.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah isn't that funny? I'm working on cleaning up a Marantz 2226 and replacing all the lamps with LED's, and don't some re-capping - as a learning project.  I want to be able to work on these myself.  But I paid $110 for the receiver, and the LED lamps are $42!


----------



## moodyrn

Skylab you should work on building your own led lamps. There's a diy guilde on ibuildmarantz, and it's really easy. The parts cost me about 20.00 and that not only included the parts for the dial tuner lamps, but also the indicator and meter lamps. Every light on my receiver is led now.


----------



## Skylab

Does it really save money?  If so I might try it.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes, the 20.00 I spent inluded 26 led bulbs. So if you only wanted to do the dial tuner lamps, it's even cheaper. I just didnt want to spend 40-50 on led lamps for the dial tuner and turn around and spend another 30 or so if I also wanted leds for the indicator lights. But even if 40-50 also included the indicator lamps, diy is still less than half that cost and looks even better since the led bulbs you buy are higher quality.


----------



## wotts

I assume the LED replacements are the LED with a resistor soldered to it? I looked for the guide on the site mentioned, but didn't find it. I have the 2265b page bookmarked as I intend to recap my unit down the road. I planned to replace the lamps with LEDs at that time.


----------



## Skylab

Cool, I will look into that, thanks.


----------



## hawkhead

http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/leds/lamps.html
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> I assume the LED replacements are the LED with a resistor soldered to it? I looked for the guide on the site mentioned, but didn't find it. I have the 2265b page bookmarked as I intend to recap my unit down the road. I planned to replace the lamps with LEDs at that time.


----------



## hawkhead

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&category=CAR&Page2Disp=%2Fspecs%2FF30-WHP.htm
   
  These are a bit more reasonable - "See prices and buy" shows $2.49 each
   
  Must adjust the voltage down to 8v for a lot of receivers


----------



## wotts

Awesome. Thanks!

  
  Quote: 





hawkhead said:


> http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/leds/lamps.html


----------



## moodyrn

Most places are severly overpriced on the exact bulbs recommended on the irebuildmarantz site. Just goggle them. I got mine for around .70 each(I think). Don't know why some sites are charging so much for those bulbs. I couldn't find the red ones mention, so I actually got mine from radio shack, and they look great.


----------



## BmWr75

The FedEx man came today....complaining about a 70+ lb package.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Ain't the new 2500 pretty?  Time to order a wood case.


----------



## jc9394

Very nice, I'm so buying one if my budget is not set aside for Nikon D800.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The FedEx man came today....complaining about a 70+ lb package.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  thats GLORIOUS.
   
  tell me is that sanus stand wide enough for a pioneer sx 950 (22 inches) to not have to be on the top shelf??


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> The FedEx man came today....complaining about a 70+ lb package.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  IMHO, 2500 looks nice but not pretty. He is a bold muscle guy, and he intimidates me!! (call me chicken)
   
  How did the seller pack this, a wood case or just double box?
   
  If you want to move your Marantz separate (540 & 3800?), please let me know!!
   
  Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And now the thread needs Sansui G-33000 or G-22000 and Technics SA-1000!!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats GLORIOUS.
> 
> tell me is that sanus stand wide enough for a pioneer sx 950 (22 inches) to not have to be on the top shelf??


 

 It is a Sanus rack and the space between the columns measures about 19.5".


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> IMHO, 2500 looks nice but not pretty. He is a bold muscle guy, and he intimidates me!! (call me chicken)
> 
> How did the seller pack this, a wood case or just double box?
> 
> ...


 
  The seller did an amazing pack job.  He wrapped the receiver in bubble wrap, then a layer of cardboard wrapped and taped around it, then three sheets of 1" foam sheeting on all sides in a cardboard box.


----------



## Thing Fish

I will have to post a picture of my minto Pioneer SX950 when I get a chance.
   
  I haven't used it in about a year. Must spark it up this weekend.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Just BEAUTIFUL!  does it really weigh 70 lbs?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Just BEAUTIFUL!  does it really weigh 70 lbs?


 

 This site says 59.4 lb.
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/2500.html


----------



## Skylab

Scott that is just awesome. Congrats, buddy. You are in the big time of Monster Vintage Receivers now!


----------



## BmWr75

Thanks Rob.  I ordered a black walnut cabinet from mcintoshcabinets.com today.  Thanks for the recommendation.
   
  Will post more pictures when the cabinet comes in.


----------



## Skylab

Well, those guys make the most beautiful cabinets I have ever seen, so that will look absolutely amazing. Really look forward to seeing it.


----------



## Rawrbington

i finally hooked up my WA2 as a pre amp to the power in on the SX950.
  freaking impressive.
  more detail, a sense of staging, warmth, and just overall this awesome musicality that makes me smile.  vocals and guitars are lush and rich.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i finally hooked up my WA2 as a pre amp to the power in on the SX950.
> freaking impressive.
> more detail, a sense of staging, warmth, and just overall this awesome musicality that makes me smile.  vocals and guitars are lush and rich.


 


  Sounds like an excellent rig.
   
  I'm running a headroom ultra desktop amp  as a pre amp and dac to my marantz 2285B. My B&W bookshelf speakers sound amazing with this set up.


----------



## Rawrbington

for some reason i found this picture humorous.
  from AK board


----------



## hawkhead

Well the path to Audio nirvana is never easy.
   
  My replacement lamps arrived and I unscrewed the metal bar holding them in place - 2 screws - 20 minutes later . . .
   

   
  After assembly and test I found out that I had forgotten the meter lamp . . . .


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> for some reason i found this picture humorous.
> from AK board


 


  I saw that when it was first posted over there...immediately showed my wife and said "look, there are people way crazier than me".


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I saw that when it was first posted over there...immediately showed my wife and said "look, there are people way crazier than me".


 


  And I bet her answer is "What is your point???"


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I saw that when it was first posted over there...immediately showed my wife and said "look, there are people way crazier than me".


 


  My wife would say, "You're either crazy or you're not, I don't care where the line is drawn."


----------



## Rawrbington

i seriously LOL'd when i saw the picture.
  then i read skylabs comment,
  "wow, just wow."
  and i pretty much lost it.
   
   
  you guys think the HP jack on a SX 950 will drive the HE5-LE?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> My wife would say, "You're either crazy or you're not, I don't care where the line is drawn."


 


  You wife is definitely a keeper.  My wife will simply said, either those or me.  At that time, I'm not sure what I will say.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


rawrbington said:


> for some reason i found this picture humorous.
> from AK board


 

 Which AK thread is it in?
   
  For some reason it makes me think of *Jim's SAE* collection...

   
  ...but I don't know who's the crazier collector, there.


----------



## Rawrbington

its in the pioneer board on the show us your pioneer or something like that.
  it was a sticky i think.
   
  got my pioneer pl 55x TT working today.
  im excited.
  all it took was an 12$ stylus.
  the Shure Hi Track cart still works even though its 30+ years old.
   
  stuggled with the 60 cycle for a half an hour till i read the manual for the TT.
   
  now the issue is,
  i must put all of this equipment purchasing on hold
  and find a storage solution.
   
  can't run it off my "best" rig because theres no room
   
  can't run it in the living room the way i want because i've got no way to get it to my yamaha integrated and still have the integrated hooked up to the PC and TV.
   
  =(


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i seriously LOL'd when i saw the picture.
> then i read skylabs comment,
> "wow, just wow."
> and i pretty much lost it.
> ...


 

 Not really well, in my speculation/experience.  I have a Marantz 2275 and with the HE-5 in play, the vol pot has to go way beyond where it goes with other cans.  So I would surmise a SX-950 might have a bit of a struggle showing what the headphone can really do.  However, with the SX-1250, the HE-5 gets right up there to a righteous toe-tapping, finger-snapping zone.
   
  Just me guessing it would be a bit iffy...


----------



## shipsupt

I'd disagree. I have the 5LE and a 950. The 950 has plenty of go right from the HPO to make the 5LE sing with plenty of headroom to spare. The 6 is another story... 




wharfrat said:


> Not really well, in my speculation/experience.  I have a Marantz 2275 and with the HE-5 in play, the vol pot has to go way beyond where it goes with other cans.  So I would surmise a SX-950 might have a bit of a struggle showing what the headphone can really do.  However, with the SX-1250, the HE-5 gets right up there to a righteous toe-tapping, finger-snapping zone.
> 
> Just me guessing it would be a bit iffy...


----------



## Magick Man

So, got my McIntosh MA6100 rolling with my Little Dot DAC-1 & D7000s (and D2000s, Q701s, Rastas, etc.). Talk about velvet smooth with all the soundstage and detail, this is almost high end tube territory here. This monster is an amazing HF amp, and does a killer job driving my Swan Diva 2.1s that I use as PC speakers. I can't believe I waited this long to get it out of mothballs.



Sexy, sexy...


----------



## MohawkUS

magick man said:


> So, got my McIntosh MA6100 rolling with my Little Dot DAC-1 & D7000s (and D2000s, Q701s, Rastas, etc.). Talk about velvet smooth with all the soundstage and detail, this is almost high end tube territory here. This monster is an amazing HF amp, and does a killer job driving my Swan Diva 2.1s that I use as PC speakers. I can't believe I waited this long to get it out of mothballs.
> 
> Sexy, sexy...




Could you actually replace a dedicated headphone amp with an integrated amplifier like this and get better sound? I vowed a while back to stop messing around with vintage gear, but the vintage sound is calling me back, that, and I need a phono pre-amp. I have no intention of using speakers right now, but I do hope to add in a cassette player and finish off my turntable rig soon, would be great if I could use an old amp as an all in one and sell off the Burson. Technicalities aside, listening through the broken sherwood I have has just made the Burson take on a 'fake' sound to me.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> *Could you actually replace a dedicated headphone amp with an integrated amplifier like this and get better sound?* I vowed a while back to stop messing around with vintage gear, but the vintage sound is calling me back, that, and I need a phono pre-amp. I have no intention of using speakers right now, but I do hope to add in a cassette player and finish off my turntable rig soon, would be great if I could use an old amp as an all in one and sell off the Burson. Technicalities aside, listening through the broken sherwood I have has just made the Burson take on a 'fake' sound to me.


 

  
  Yes


----------



## Magick Man

I don't own any really difficult to drive cans, but I can't imagine there are many headphones out there that need more than this tank can put out.


----------



## RexAeterna

rawrbington said:


> for some reason i found this picture humorous.
> from AK board




he should do him self good and sell everything off except the yamaha power amp on the bottom and invest in a nice preamp and better speakers. the double woofers look like technics to me. he should try replacing them with some nice working Technics SB-7000A. he would thank me.


----------



## Skylab

I almost never use a "dedicated headphone amp" anymore. Almost all my headphone listening is done via a vintage receiver, and if you factor in that the Leben CS-300 is an integrated amp, then I really don't use a dedicated headphone amp at all except on very rare occasions. Among other things, I prefer the flexibility that my vintage gear offers me - lots of source switching, tone controls, balance, mono switch, etc etc. And the sound is at LEAST as good


----------



## moodyrn

^ What he said
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  In fact I don't know if I will ever buy another dedicated headphone amp again. You have to spend too much on one just to beat these things. The only two headphone amps I've listen to that was better than what I have is the dark star, and liquid fire. But that's about 7000.00 worth of amps, and even then  they were probably around 5% better.


----------



## Rawrbington

i dunno,
  i think my sx 950 sounds nice, i think it sounds better with the phono then with the aux.
  but in neither situation do i think it sounds as good as the wa2.
  it might be that the wa2 just has very nice synergy with my cans,
  or that my cans don't have great synergy with the pioneer.


----------



## Skylab

The WA2 is a very tubey tube amp.  It will for sure sound quite different than an SX-950.  Apples and oranges, if you ask me.  I thought the WA2 was a terrific headamp as well. 
   
  I just realized I have NO pure headphone amps anymore.  My Decware Mini-Torii is also an integrated amp with speaker outs, and my RWA is a DAC as well ad a hpa, and I use it mostly as a DAC...


----------



## Magick Man

The only real advantages I'm seeing in buying a SS high/mid range HP amp is to conserve space and electricity.


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody spent any significant time with a pair of denon 2000/5000/7000 with a vintage receiver?
   
  is there a noticably HUGE impedance missmatch causing them to sound poor?


----------



## moodyrn

The denons have great synergy with the pioneer sx line. Right now I'm using my heavily modded d7k with a sansui au-517. The sansui is warmer than neutral, but my denons don't sound warm and lush like the stock one does, so ymmv. But with the pioneer I had, the -20db button was a must, otherwise, they would hiss like crazy. I always considered the -20 as the "headphone" button with high sensitivity low impedance cans.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody spent any significant time with a pair of denon 2000/5000/7000 with a vintage receiver?
> 
> is there a noticably HUGE impedance missmatch causing them to sound poor?


 


  I don't think a vintage rig cares about headphone impedance.  If your phono input sounds good and AUX in doesn't, then it could be your AUX in source


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i dunno,
> i think my sx 950 sounds nice, i think it sounds better with the phono then with the aux.
> but in neither situation do i think it sounds as good as the wa2.
> it might be that the wa2 just has very nice synergy with my cans,
> or that my cans don't have great synergy with the pioneer.


 
  Never listened to a 950, all of my receivers have been totl stuff. So I don't know how close the midtier receivers actually are. I really like my au-517 which is one step down from the au-717, but it's not in the same league as the tolt stuff I've owned.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


magick man said:


> The only real advantages I'm seeing in buying a SS high/mid range HP amp is to conserve space and electricity.


 

 I'm finding that it's useful to have one as a fallback when all the big rigs need work at the same time.


----------



## hodgjy

Say it ain't so.  
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I just realized I have NO pure headphone amps anymore.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm getting out of the headphone game altogether and going back to my first love, speaker rigs, but I'm keeping my Sansui AU 505 just in case another headphone does roll my way.


----------



## hodgjy

That's the beauty of the audio hobby.  It's all about the individual person.  Back in high school and early college, I obsessed over speaker in the quest to get the best bang for my buck.  Now, my speakers are modest things really voiced for theater.  And, that's what they are used for 99% of the time.  I listen to 99% of my music through headphones now.  I found it easier and cheaper for me to achieve the sound I was looking for in headphones.  Maybe someday I'll get more serious about speakers again.....
  
  Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I'm getting out of the headphone game altogether and going back to my first love, speaker rigs, but I'm keeping my Sansui AU 505 just in case another headphone does roll my way.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I don't think a vintage rig cares about headphone impedance.  If your phono input sounds good and AUX in doesn't, then it could be your AUX in source


 

 the aux source is a DLIII
  but it sounds fine out of my other amps.
  its really just that the hiss moodryn mentioned is less present with the phono stage for whatever reason.


----------



## Magick Man

rawrbington said:


> anybody spent any significant time with a pair of denon 2000/5000/7000 with a vintage receiver?
> 
> is there a noticably HUGE impedance missmatch causing them to sound poor?




I use my D7000s with my MA6100 and it's clear as a bell and very musical. I mentioned before that it has a tube-like smoothness about it, and a touch of warmth, whether with my headphones or my desktop speakers. I do wonder how much it puts out through the HP jack at various loads, though. I can't find that spec anywhere.


----------



## Wharfrat

magick man said:


> I use my D7000s with my MA6100 and it's clear as a bell and very musical. I mentioned before that it has a tube-like smoothness about it, and a touch of warmth, whether with my headphones or my desktop speakers. I do wonder how much it puts out through the HP jack at various loads, though. I can't find that spec anywhere.


 


 Finally...somebody has made mention of vintage McIntosh gear as HP-friendly...Nows I gots to ask:  How does the MA6100 compare with the EF-5? (I have one...with a Telefunken NOS tube and I really love it with the D7000...).
   
  I have an extensive Dead CD collection and those ol' boys used almost exclusively McIntosh amps in their live show setup.  I KNOW what they sound like live but am having trouble replicating that tonal palette Phil and Jerry put out with nearly all the HP amps I own (2 dedicated, 1 DAC, 5 integrateds/receivers).  Just wondering if that McIntosh sound tickles your toes and shakes your bones?
   
  as for the previous post re: HE-5LE and SX-950 synergy, the proof is in the actual listening.  As I've never heard that combo, I will hold my silence since a Marantz is not a Pioneer...(should have shut up the first time anyhow).


----------



## Silent One

'Silent One' is now giving audible thought, talking out loud, about possibly getting the HE-6. Currently owns the SX-650, but somehow thinks outside of power from the taps, that sonically he may have to move up in amp class. So, how far up will bring satisfaction? To use the Pioneer SX line as an example, what model would be the minimum I would want for the HE-6?


----------



## wotts

I am not a Pioneer owner, but I as far as the Marantz, the 2265B drives the HE-6 quite well from the HP out. I get plenty of range using the volume knob. Personally, I have been seeking out a Pioneer SX-1250 to use for the HE-6 as well.

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> 'Silent One' is now giving audible thought, talking out loud, about possibly getting the HE-6. Currently owns the SX-650, but somehow thinks outside of power from the taps, that sonically he may have to move up in amp class. So, how far up will bring satisfaction? To use the Pioneer SX line as an example, what model would be the minimum I would want for the HE-6?


----------



## Magick Man

wharfrat said:


> Finally...somebody has made mention of vintage McIntosh gear as HP-friendly...Nows I gots to ask:  [COLOR=B22222]How does the MA6100 compare with the EF-5? (I have one...with a Telefunken NOS tube and I really love it with the D7000...).[/COLOR]
> 
> I have an extensive Dead CD collection and those ol' boys used almost exclusively McIntosh amps in their live show setup.  I KNOW what they sound like live but am having trouble replicating that tonal palette Phil and Jerry put out with nearly all the HP amps I own (2 dedicated, 1 DAC, 5 integrateds/receivers).  Just wondering if that McIntosh sound tickles your toes and shakes your bones?
> 
> as for the previous post re: HE-5LE and SX-950 synergy, the proof is in the actual listening.  As I've never heard that combo, I will hold my silence since a Marantz is not a Pioneer...(should have shut up the first time anyhow).




How does it compare? It's different.  However, I've swapped out the stock tube on the EF-5 for a Mullard 12AU7 and changed the opamp to a OPA627, both were substantial upgrades. The EF-5 is a little more detailed and is a bit warmer, while the MA6100 has a larger soundstage and more texture. With older recordings the McIntosh really knocks my socks off, producing a more live presentation. I actually sat down today and listened to Fleetwood Mac's _Rumors_ for the first time in years with my Q701s. I hadn't meant to, I was just skimming my library, but it was like hearing it for the first time all over again.

They complement each other well, a solid 1-2 punch.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I am not a Pioneer owner, but I as far as the Marantz, the 2265B drives the HE-6 quite well from the HP out. I get plenty of range using the volume knob. Personally, I have been seeking out a Pioneer SX-1250 to use for the HE-6 as well.


 

 Greetings wotts. Do you think the SX-1250 should be the baseline? Or do you think the SX-950; SX-1050? Anyone know (I know y'all do) where the lowly SX-650 fits in the scheme of things with the HE-6?


----------



## Skylab

Based on my experience with the HE-6 and the Marantz 2270 and 2285, I would say the SX-1050 and 950 would do the job nicely. My SX-1250 drives the HE-6 with LOTS of room to spare. So does the 85 wpc Marantz 2285. the SX-950 is also 85 wpc. That should be more than enough.

Much less though and I think from the headphone out at least it wouldn't be enough.


----------



## scompton

My 60 wpc STA-2200 did a good job with the HE-6 out of the headphone jack.  Some people who were cranking it were getting close to clipping according to the meters, but they were listening at levels that hurt my ears.


----------



## sluker

My SX1250 sounds great with the HE-6. But I think I prefer the Sansui AU-717 which is half the power (85w) but has a warmer sound signature. Both of these amps are capable of driving the HE-6 from the HO with plenty of headroom.
  As a result I would imagine the 1010/1050 would also be sufficient as far as power requirements.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Based on my experience with the HE-6 and the Marantz 2270 and 2285, I would say the SX-1050 and 950 would do the job nicely. My SX-1250 drives the HE-6 with LOTS of room to spare. So does the 85 wpc Marantz 2285. the SX-950 is also 85 wpc. That should be more than enough.
> Much less though and I think from the headphone out at least it wouldn't be enough.


 

 Does this suggest you needed to run the HE-6 from the speaker taps on the SX-1250? Or was the HO good enough? Thanks kindly. I was just wondering if the SX-650 would be adequate with HO.


----------



## sluker

IMO HO sounds better.


----------



## SolomonPierce

This is the most vintage Hi-Fi I have lol


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> Does this suggest you needed to run the HE-6 from the speaker taps on the SX-1250? Or was the HO good enough? Thanks kindly. I was just wondering if the SX-650 would be adequate with HO.





 
 


On the SX-1250 for sure the HO is more than powerful enough...I've never even tried the speaker taps, and on the 160 wpc SX-1250, it's likely not a good idea.

Remember that with these vintage amps and receivers the HO using the main power amp just like the speakers, just usually via some dropping resistors.


----------



## mrarroyo

I can't stop myself and … well I am waiting for. Found it on AudioKarma for $270 including S&H and the wood case. I had a 2220B which I gave as a present since I have a 2238B but I kind of missed the 2220B.


----------



## Skylab

Nice! That era Marantz in wood case is so cool looking, and GREAT sounding.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Does this suggest you needed to run the HE-6 from the speaker taps on the SX-1250? Or was the HO good enough? Thanks kindly. I was just wondering if the SX-650 would be adequate with HO.


 

 I can say that a 40-watt Marantz 2240 headphone out is not enough, but the speaker out of the 2240 is more than enough.  For a while I wanted a 2270 or higher, in order to use the headphone jack.  Now I'm just cruising with what I have.


----------



## Wharfrat

magick man said:


> How does it compare? It's different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Many thanks for the Magik-al news...I tend to rotate between the EF-5, SX-1250 (turns out the HO jack is a bit loose, but both channels work with a bit of jiggling...Hank sez: "It's Deoxit time!"), and Marantz 2275...  I certianly will look into a Mullard and OPA627 upgrade soon as I figure out what is required as I really like the tube sound at that price point...positive news about the MA6100 is great..now I just got to find a way to listen to one before deciding whether to add it to my "buy list"...
   Q701s?  Are you referring to K701s?  Never saw that Q letter designation...


----------



## Wharfrat

Magik-man.  Save your fingers...found the Q701 appreciation thread...I like the AKG 702 with the Marantz...and had thought of recabling to give the treble a bit more extension and bring the mids a bit more forward.  But a new can entirely...hmmm.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





solomonpierce said:


> This is the most vintage Hi-Fi I have lol


 

 I'd love to have one of those!  On the other hand whenever I see one I'm always glad I'm an audiophile in this era of sound reproduction.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Marantz from the 60's   If anyone has some spare change hanging around the house looks like a good deal... Oh too late it ended in 2011, oh well..
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=220834438249&nma=true&rt=nc&si=IQM%2FxRZDw%2Fq+hMkUTzPu6Ysp8pw%3D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true


----------



## jc9394

Holy crap, that is a real datacenter rack he is using...


----------



## ardgedee

19" racks are pretty much a standard. There's no real difference between an audio rack and a server rack aside from the color of the powdercoat finish.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Well here is another great deal if you have some extra lunch money sitting around.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/MCINTOSH-Buy-It-Now-39-ITEMS-Liquidating-A-Large-Collection-Excellent-GEAR-/150767675171?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item231a742723#ht_14917wt_1035


----------



## Meewoo

Woooow!


----------



## The8thst

ardgedee said:


> 19" racks are pretty much a standard. There's no real difference between an audio rack and a server rack aside from the color of the powdercoat finish.




Not quite.
The spacing is standardized (not counting cage nuts), but most server racks are far deeper than AV racks. A full 32" or 27" server rack is a pain in the butt to use when all of your equipment is less than 18" deep. 
I would also be pretty nervous putting all the weight from that Tube system into a 2-post relay rack unless it is very securely bolted to the floor.


----------



## NU62

Based on the comments in this thread, I pulled my mint condition Pioneer SX-950 receiver out of storage, hooked up a modified Sony Playstation One and plugged in my Headphile Vixens with Fostex TP50 drivers.  Listened to the Kansas City soundtrack, which I agree is very well recorded - it is one of the cd's I use to audition equipment under consideration for purchase.  Incredible slam, bass, tonality and definition.  All of my other headphone amps are tube - 2 Eddie Current models and an Almarro 205 MKII - each has unique qualities with specific headphones in my collection, but the Pioneer - Vixen combinatiion is the killer combination.


----------



## Rawrbington

whats the going rate these days on a sx 1050?
  i have the opportunity to grab one for 450$ and aside from one very small scratch on the front its perfect.


----------



## wotts

I don't think I've seen one for sale in my area, but I missed out on a GREAT SX-1250 for $350. It was down from $450.

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> whats the going rate these days on a sx 1050?
> i have the opportunity to grab one for 450$ and aside from one very small scratch on the front its perfect.


----------



## Skylab

That might be a fair price for one that is really perfect. They sell typically on eBay for $300-400. I would try to bargain a bit. If you got a super clean one for $400 locally that would be worth doing IMO.


----------



## publicholiday

I just got a cute little Pioneer SA-7300, it sounded good as I was testing it but when I bring back and play I heard a relay switch sound and the music stops. Can anyone help me?


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





publicholiday said:


> I just got a cute little Pioneer SA-7300, it sounded good as I was testing it but when I bring back and play I heard a relay switch sound and the music stops. Can anyone help me?


 


 without more info it could be anything, but the sa7300 is known to have a
  circuit protection that would kick due to anything from leaky caps to dirty
  relay circuit.


----------



## BmWr75

Pioneer SX-980 receiver, PL-50 turntable and Realistic MC-1000 speakers converted to AudioKarma Indignias.  This is my wife's office system.
   
  Paid $35 for the PL-50, it looks like new.


----------



## Skylab

VERY nice, Scott!


----------



## BmWr75

Thanks Rob.  You going to AKFest in late April?
   
  That is a tube based metronome sitting on top of the receiver.


----------



## Skylab

Nah, can't make AKFest, though I sure wish I could. Are you? 

There was an awesome AK meet here last weekend though, really enjoyed it. Heard some cool stuff. People LOVED my Fisher KX-100 + AT W3000ANV setup that I brought


----------



## BmWr75

I'll be there in Detroit on April 28-29.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I can say that a 40-watt Marantz 2240 headphone out is not enough, but the speaker out of the 2240 is more than enough.  For a while I wanted a 2270 or higher, in order to use the headphone jack.  Now I'm just cruising with what I have.


 

 A BIG thanks to the membership. I have a fellow member's HE-6's dropping Monday via FedEx.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A BIG thanks to the membership. I have a fellow member's HE-6's dropping Monday via FedEx.


----------



## WNBC

Minty Sansui G-33000.  I thought 9K was high but then I searched this thread and that price is about right.  If one of you buys it I would like a small commission 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/2880183236.html


----------



## wotts

That sure does look amazing. After listing to my measly 65wpc, I'm afraid to think of the power that would deliver to the HPM100s


----------



## RexAeterna

wnbc said:


> Minty Sansui G-33000.  I thought 9K was high but then I searched this thread and that price is about right.  If one of you buys it I would like a small commission
> 
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/2880183236.html




i would mess with him and tell him i only do 5 bucks cause it's old lol.


----------



## RexAeterna

wotts said:


> That sure does look amazing. After listing to my measly 65wpc, I'm afraid to think of the power that would deliver to the HPM100s




probably not too much difference except different sound. you defiantly have extra headroom though if needed. most people barely listen above a few watts anyways in reality. rest of the power is usually reserved for dynamic headroom.


----------



## WNBC

I'll offer him a trade for my newer 2006 Onkyo home theater receiver because newer is better and it has optical inputs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i would mess with him and tell him i only do 5 bucks cause it's old lol.


----------



## Rawrbington

lol
   
  i like how he says i will not accept low balling.
  whats he gonna do?


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> lol
> 
> i like how he says i will not accept low balling.
> whats he gonna do?


 

 He's gonna keep it...for a long time.
   
  His wife probably told him it's gotta go. "I tried to sell it honey, I put an add on Craigslist and everything!"


----------



## WarriorAnt

Here he is on eBay with a starting bid of $7000. Darn I shouldn't have told anyone now everyone is going to bid against me!
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sansui-G-33000-Vintage-Receiver-Mint-condition-/220965806980?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item337296a384#ht_1735wt_1141


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Minty Sansui G-33000.  I thought 9K was high but then I searched this thread and that price is about right.  If one of you buys it I would like a small commission
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've seen this ad over that last few days. My first thought each time I see it is "is this guy high or what?"
   
  There's even been a few response ads calling him out.
   
  I did some cursory poking around and 5-6K seems more appropriate if past sales are any indicator (as of 3 or 4 yrs. ago).
   
  -Dogwan


----------



## wotts

True enough. I rarely go beyond 9 o'clock on the dial when I'm listening. Maybe a little bit more with the HE-6.
  
  Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> probably not too much difference except different sound. you defiantly have extra headroom though if needed. most people barely listen above a few watts anyways in reality. rest of the power is usually reserved for dynamic headroom.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A BIG thanks to the membership. I have a fellow member's HE-6's dropping Monday via FedEx.


 


  Let me know how it goes.  I wanted to try it on 2265B so bad.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jc9394 said:


> Let me know how it goes.  I wanted to try it on 2265B so bad.


 


  Yeah, you know I like female vocals too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Currently in-session with Angela Bofill from the album "Angel of the Night." It's past midnight and I'm past due on gettin' settled, more listening to do before sunrise.
   
  The quick? The OTL amp was under powered. Now all over the Pioneer SX-650, bypassing the HPO and went straight to the rear! Only in the first 20 minutes. But the thing that jumps out at me first is the middle - there's a decay and spaciousness that I'm diggin'. And though the separation of notes is there, I'm hearing a seamless sound stage as opposed to left channel; right channel, like a Test CD. Speakers?
   
  Still to come, genre hopping. But that would mean I have to leave "Angie." 




   
  Additionally, the Pioneer isn't as resolving as the Woo or OTL amp. I may have an opportunity to audition a pair of HE-6's that's hard-wired, which are easier to drive than stock, according to Robert (Aphrodite Cu29). So, I look forward to revisiting the OTL amp in a week ot two!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


>


 







 Good thing I heard the neighborhood dogs chasing the UPS truck instead!


----------



## wotts

I always miss UPS since I'm sleeping, but FedEx comes after I leave for work.


----------



## trentino

I got a 1972 Sony receiver fixed up at a local dealer and I especially like it with HD600. I'm usually not a fan of the HD600 but this may have changed 
   
  When using it with the Denons the bass is a bit much though


----------



## Rawrbington

how could you wire up one pair of speakers to multiple power sources without having to physically change the wires?
  is this possible?
 does someone make something similar to a speaker selector or something?
  or should i just get used to switching the wires?
  kinda sucks with bi-wire speakers   =(


----------



## wotts

I would just make a passive switch box - a few inputs and one set of outs to the speakers and big knobs for selections.
   
  EDIT: I wouldn't switch the inputs with a live signal.


----------



## wualta

A speaker selector box normally has one input and several outputs, but you can just turn it around and have several inputs and only one output. Just make sure that you can only select one input at a time. And yes, the switch will last longer and it'll be safer all the way around if you power down before switching.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> A speaker selector box normally has one input and several outputs, but you can just turn it around and have several inputs and only one output. Just make sure that you can only select one input at a time. And yes, the switch will last longer and it'll be safer all the way around if you power down before switching.


 


 I bought a speaker selector to do this trick. But I haven't try it yet, are you sure it's safe to use this way? From the design of speaker selector, it should be safe. Just want to make sure, Thanks!!


----------



## wualta

As long as there's no way for the amps to be connected _to one another_ as you're switching, even momentarily, you'll be fine. A speaker selector that never gives you the choice of running more than 1 speaker at a time is what you want. A big fat old-fashioned rotary switch-- that'd do it. 
   
  Are you intending to compare amps or something?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Are you intending to compare amps or something?


 

 Thanks lot wualta!
  I will definitely try my monster cable speaker selector later. I have little intention to compare amps(Normally I trust my headphone more when comparing amps). Having so much amps laying around, I just want to enjoy different amps at different time. With the speaker selector trick, it's more convenient for me.
   
  I picked up a Pioneer SX-D7000 with HPM-900 last weekend.

   

   
  If anyone has no requirement for the wood case and analog tuner and meters, SX-D7000 is a strong candidate among Pioneer heyday receivers. For the building quality, I think Pioneer didn't cut corner yet. Although it has more integrated parts, it has big toroidal transformer and big Nicheon cap. And I like it's looking.
   
  Mine didn't come with wood side panels, the original owner put them away (to fit in her cabinet) and couldn't find them anymore.


----------



## wualta

Very good looking, though not in the classic '70s mold, and equipped with Pioneer's Non-Switching circuitry in the amplifier section-- excellent score.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Thanks lot wualta!
> I will definitely try my monster cable speaker selector later. I have little intention to compare amps(Normally I trust my headphone more when comparing amps). Having so much amps laying around, I just want to enjoy different amps at different time. With the speaker selector trick, it's more convenient for me.
> 
> I picked up a Pioneer SX-D7000 with HPM-900 last weekend.
> ...


 

 Nice, Meewoo! How do you like them?  Always wanted to hear both of those.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> Thanks lot wualta!
> I will definitely try my monster cable speaker selector later. I have little intention to compare amps(Normally I trust my headphone more when comparing amps). Having so much amps laying around, I just want to enjoy different amps at different time. With the speaker selector trick, it's more convenient for me.
> 
> I picked up a Pioneer SX-D7000 with HPM-900 last weekend.
> ...




that toroidal transformer! looking good. mmmm,looking so good.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> that toroidal transformer! looking good. mmmm,looking so good.


 


  Pioneer made some SERIOUS torroids.  Check out the massive one in the SX-1980:
   


   
  (this is from mine where someone custom painted it with the Pioneer logo!)


----------



## manveru

Found this Teac cassette deck at a relative's house. Out of curiosity I took it home. Spent last night cleaning it up and doing a round of deoxit. I don't have any cassettes and the headphone out is only about as decent as the integrated amp in my Cube DAC, so I don't really have much use for it, but it does look pretty nifty with its analog meters.


----------



## RexAeterna

i just got a Harman Kardon HK770 matching set from a nice gentleman for a trade.

for such little power amp it's kicking some serious heat(power). dual mono design, dual toroidal transformers,completely discrete! no IC's. even the preamp is all discrete with no IC's. just calls for purity! it sounds very clean and very impressive. will take some pics later after i'm done playing with it.


----------



## RexAeterna

skylab said:


> Pioneer made some SERIOUS torroids.  Check out the massive one in the SX-1980:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




ectoplasm! ectoplasm everywhere! on the walls and all over my monitor. i think i want to marry it.


----------



## Skylab

LOLOL! It's worthy. I bet just the torroid must weigh 20-25 lbs! The whole receiver tips the scales at just under 80 lbs...


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOLOL! It's worthy. I bet just the torroid must weigh 20-25 lbs! The whole receiver tips the scales at just under 80 lbs...


 


  Wow 80 lbs for a receiver. That is amazing.


----------



## Skylab

Unless you see an SX-1980 in person, it's a little hard to appreciate just how big, heavy, and well built it really is.


----------



## RexAeterna

if anyone curious, this is what i picked up earlier(not my pics cause playing with it still and gonna clean it up a bit. testing the preamp with my yamaha m-45 power amp now and man nice clean sound. seems to pair well).


the power amp







the preamp:






i originally was just looking for a preamp for my yamaha and i read a lot and looked at the H/K but the guy i traded with asked if i want the matching power amp as well and of course i was like ''hell yes!''

the combo is more impressive then i was expecting. i was exactly expecting them to be ok or just be fine enough where they just do the job till i got matching pre for my yammy but i think i'm not gonna bother hunting down a yamaha pre unless i magically end with a killer deal for the C-2 or something. 


the power amp is only 65wpc but it defiantly seems to have more headroom then that. i was also not expecting this thing to have dual toroidal transformers. this thing is seriously packing something for such a little guy. heavy sucker too for how small it is(over 30lbs and it's not that big at all. same size as the preamp).

if anyone wondering i traded up my fully serviced sansui 5000x for it(my sansui also gotten an upgrade on the tuner section but that was free since i'm cool with the tech i know). i told him he can take my other receivers sitting around but he's only a sansui guy and reason he wanted to trade as well. i been trying to limit my receiver collection and stacking up on separates instead for the past few months. i have no friends or family into audio gear so they just been sitting around. i also have too many speakers!


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> Wow 80 lbs for a receiver. That is amazing.




you'll be surprise how heavy they can get. my sansui was over 40lbs and that was for a 60wpc receiver. i seen amps going for over 200lbs but most of them were from Krell mono blocks. big suckers and enough juice to have the need of it's own 20A circuits dedicated to them if you plan on using them in your house.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> if anyone curious, this is what i picked up earlier(not my pics cause playing with it still and gonna clean it up a bit. testing the preamp with my yamaha m-45 power amp now and man nice clean sound. seems to pair well).
> the power amp
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice! I remember that vintage. Actually, not far from the period of that "newer" Pioneer posted a few numbers up.
   
  I think those were out around the time I almost bought some Kyocera separates and bought my Carver.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> you'll be surprise how heavy they can get. my sansui was over 40lbs and that was for a 60wpc receiver. i seen amps going for over 200lbs but most of them were from Krell mono blocks. big suckers and enough juice to have the need of it's own 20A circuits dedicated to them if you plan on using them in your house.


 


  I've had many Krell amps that's why I was so amazed that the receiver weighed 80 lbs.    My Krell KSA 250 weighed 140 lbs( the transformer alone was 85 lbs).  Not long after I got it something inside the amp blew up.  After hauling it from the store then up to the Krell factory then back from the Krell factory into my house I decided it was simply too heavy. So I got a KSA 150 which was also pretty heavy.  I sold it last March and the guy moved it out of my house with a hand truck.  My Krell KSA 80 was reasonable in terms of weight.
   
  The biggest receiver I've experienced was a Yamaha CR820 so I had no idea how heavy the rest of the vintage could run.    When I told my wife I was getting a headphone amp (V200) she expected another Krell monster.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> I've had many Krell amps that's why I was so amazed that the receiver weighed 80 lbs.    My Krell KSA 250 weighed 140 lbs( the transformer alone was 85 lbs).  Not long after I got it something inside the amp blew up.  After hauling it from the store then up to the Krell factory then back from the Krell factory into my house I decided it was simply too heavy. So I got a KSA 150 which was also pretty heavy.  I sold it last March and the guy moved it out of my house with a hand truck.  My Krell KSA 80 was reasonable in terms of weight.
> 
> The biggest receiver I've experienced was a Yamaha CR820 so I had no idea how heavy the rest of the vintage could run.    When I told my wife I was getting a headphone amp (V200) she expected another Krell monster.




most of the manufactures like yamaha tried to keep their line-up pretty identical to the separates out there. i know yamaha was known to making their receivers an all in one and so did NAD. reason why they never made monster receivers cause they focused on the separates market. you have no problems finding monster yamaha power amps out there having no issues with even 1ohm nominal speaker loads cause of the massive power reserves they would pack(that's of course if you need that kind of monster in your house). sansui has some very heavy receivers and technics is famous for their SA-1000 topping the pioneer at about 7-8lbs heavier. but it was known to be pretty bad sounding receiver though and went off the market fast but it sure won in pure power.


----------



## RexAeterna

palmfish said:


> Nice! I remember that vintage. Actually, not far from the period of that "newer" Pioneer posted a few numbers up.
> 
> I think those were out around the time I almost bought some Kyocera separates and bought my Carver.




thanks! can be so. i think these were from early 80's. not sure. they also used a different approach in design T.I.M(Transient Intermodulation Distortion) or something like that. more interesting info can be found here

http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-hk770.html

pretty interesting read i think. they some really cool info on that site.


----------



## Meewoo

Thank for all your kind word!
   
  @Skylab,
  I did serious audition for SX-1010 and SX-d7000 tonight with my Headphones: AKG Q701, K340 and Senn HD-580. Source is Kyocera DA-310cx and crappy RCA cables. I played Lady Antebellum's song "I need you now".
  In general, SX-1010 has a little warmer sound than sx-d7000, and the drum (bass) a little punchy too. SD-x7000 has a little large sound stage, details and smoothness. The higher on D7000 is also a little crispy and natural to me.
  I like D7000 with K340 and HD-580, the receiver's large sound stage makes these headphone more enjoyable.
  I like 1010 with Q701. The phone already has large sound stage, so D7000 didn't help with sound stage that much. And the warm sound of 1010 really compensates the little thin sound of  Q701. K340 also has thin sound, but a little narrow sound stage (comparing to Q701) makes it warmer than Q701. So I like K340 with D7000 more.
  My 1250 is ill, so I can't compare it with others.
  The customized transformer is way cool!!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  @Rex,
  Congrats!! Those HK look great!
  I like my HK pm-665 too, good stuff. You will need to clean those little buttons thoroughly, I found my pm-665 had no sound with a dirty "bass contour" button. Sansui 5000x is nice sound little one and fetch $300-$400 right now. But I think you wouldn't miss it much since HK sounds very close to 5000x. Hope to hear your expression.
   
  @WarriorAnt,
  150lb Krell amp? 80lb transformer? Wow!! It must cost two legs and two arms!


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-hk770.html
> pretty interesting read i think. they some really cool info on that site.


 
  They do! and don't forget the monoblock version of the 770: http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-hk775.html


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





> @WarriorAnt,
> 150lb Krell amp? 80lb transformer? Wow!! It must cost two legs and two arms!


 


  The Krell KSA 250 ran $5700 in 1991.  But you also had to own a private turbine to power it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




    Running Class A it dimmed the entire East Coast when I turned it on...
   
  Power consumption: 12A continuous.


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> @Rex,
> Congrats!! Those HK look great!
> I like my HK pm-665 too, good stuff. You will need to clean those little buttons thoroughly, I found my pm-665 had no sound with a dirty "bass contour" button. Sansui 5000x is nice sound little one and fetch $300-$400 right now. But I think you wouldn't miss it much since HK sounds very close to 5000x. Hope to hear your expression.





yea, i know of the sansui and the guy did to(that's another reason why he threw in the power amp as well). i knew of it very well but honestly i don't put much thought into going rates these days bring. all i care for is the sound. i traded higher valued stuff in the past for considered lower-end stuff(value wise of course) people would just think i'm nuts for doing but as long as it sounds good to me then that's all i want. if it does bad i would just have to punch myself in the face and deal with it and just sell it or give it away. i'm pretty mellow and open with my decision making. so far my gambling and luck has been on my good side for me taking these risks and trusting my gut.

the h/k 770 and 725 combo it actually a pretty accurate system. very transparent to the source(and i only thought yamaha was capable of this). i honestly thought it was gonna be your typical ''vintage warm sound'' or something. i really love the pre hooked up to my yamaha's too. very clean sounding with my speakers.

i tested the headphone out off the preamp alone and while i get pretty good headroom the sound is very clean and clear. no added warmness or brightness. just sound. headphones i used was my balanced 240DF and modded Fostex T50rp. i like the resistor controlled tone controls,very nice for taking/adding specific amount of something to the speaker or headphone. i like the very low noise floor as well. like my yamaha it was just dead quiet(even off the speaker outputs!). so far again i think i ended up with better end of the trade while the other guy think as well so usual win-win situation.

i just need to fix the pre a bit cause left channel cuts out sometimes on the preouts(thought was the preamp itself and the inputs/outputs but headphones directly plugged in the pre there is not a single issue. when using the power amps, on all i tested it does the same thing and i cleaned all the controls and so forth). if your not looking for a specific sound or more headroom these little guys perform better than what they're valued at.


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta said:


> They do! and don't forget the monoblock version of the 770: http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-hk775.html




i know! just seems they had to cut down something(looks like power rating mostly) to get it fit in such a small chassis( this is pretty small power amp but heavier then it looks. built like a tank too. can beat someone with it lol). 

EDIT: i stand corrected. power wise it is like the hk775 mono blocks. just rated differently and the hk770 power amp has no issues pushing more then 100w@8ohm load due to it's massive dynamic headroom. i read somewhere it has enough current reserves to double it's output no problem lower the impedance load.

i been running the power amp for few hours now driving my 240DF off it's speaker outputs and using my audio interface as a passive preamp for now with it's +4dbu gain(1.23v rms@47kohms) since the power amp sensitivity is rated at 1.2v@35kohms in order to reach max output(and cause i have to fix the pre-outs on the preamp). it's near impossible to find specs on this set(even the manuals have nothing) on things like stereo separation and so forth cause i have to say the stereo separation on the h/k is very,very good. one killer little power amp.


----------



## Skylab

Meewoo thanks for the comparison of the SX-1010 and D-7000. It seems Pioneer receivers got less warm as time went on. When I had the 1010 I found it quite warm sounding, certainly warmer than neutral. I find the SX-1250 less warm than the 1010, but still just slightly warm of neutral. I think the SX-1280 and 1980 are almost dead neutral, if maybe just a touch fat in the bass.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Meewoo thanks for the comparison of the SX-1010 and D-7000. It seems Pioneer receivers got less warm as time went on. When I had the 1010 I found it quite warm sounding, certainly warmer than neutral. I find the SX-1250 less warm than the 1010, but still just slightly warm of neutral. I think the SX-1280 and 1980 are almost dead neutral, if maybe just a touch fat in the bass.


 
  Do you notice the sound-stage change? And earlier model has more bass impact too. I do really enjoy D7000 now. Someday, I will get a SX-1980!!
  Which amp have you found with neutral bass?


----------



## Magick Man

Made a cool find at the local flea market, a Kenwood Basic M2A. Paid $80, talked him down from $120. 



It's in almost perfect condition, very clean. I didn't know the specs, but it weighs a ton (~40lbs) so I figured it had some power... 220W /ch into 8ohms (350W /ch into 4). Wow. :eek: The 1/4" headphone out puts out up to 6000mW! Other good numbers too:

THD: < .004%
Damping factor: > 1000
Signal to noise ratio: 120dB

Gonna see how it sounds, provided it doesn't blow up my cans.  I'll start with the Q701s, they're the toughest to drive headphones that I own.


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> Do you notice the sound-stage change? And earlier model has more bass impact too. I do really enjoy D7000 now. Someday, I will get a SX-1980!!
> Which amp have you found with neutral bass?




Yes, I think the later models soundstage better, for sure. 1010 was not great in that regard, and of mine, the 1980 is the best in soundstage for sure.

As for most neutral in the bass, that would probably be the 1250, to my ears and on my units.


----------



## RexAeterna

magick man said:


> Made a cool find at the local flea market, a Kenwood Basic M2A. Paid $80, talked him down from $120.
> 
> It's in almost perfect condition, very clean. I didn't know the specs, but it weighs a ton (~40lbs) so I figured it had some power... 220W /ch into 8ohms (350W /ch into 4). Wow. :eek: The 1/4" headphone out puts out up to 6000mW! Other good numbers too:
> THD: < .004%
> ...




i'm totally jelly right now. i can never for the life of me score good kenwood stuff. not at all for some reason. my luck seems to be either sansui,yamaha or other brands. never kenwood. kenwood gear everytime i find some they're either very bad condition or very over priced locally. actually that's kinda a lie cause when i scored that yamaha m-45 power amp for 40 bucks about month ago i found a very heavy and pretty kenwood KR-7070 receiver i believe was the model for 75 bucks. wood cab looked good but i was so drawn to the yammy i lost total interest in the other stuff at the trading post.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> EDIT: power wise it is like the hk775 mono blocks. just rated differently...


 
  Well, sort of. The 770 and *one* 775 are about the same size and put out the same total power. The 770 just divides that power in half for each channel. You can think of the 775 as a permanently bridged version of the 770.


----------



## RexAeterna

wualta said:


> Well, sort of. The 770 and *one* 775 are about the same size and put out the same total power. The 770 just divides that power in half for each channel. You can think of the 775 as a permanently bridged version of the 770.




really? pretty sweet. i'm gonna have local tech i'm really cool with look at them cause i tried figuring what's with the preouts on the preamp but can't. the inputs and outputs work great. all buttons but some reason hooked up to any power amp it would just cut the right channel in and out till you hit a certain volume. looked inside and found no bias pots or anything and the service manual not much help. power amp though been working great. sounds insanely clean and ultra smooth with the SA5000,modded t50rp's and even my 240DF. nicely fast power amp and has no issues picking out the smallest details with good stereo separation.


----------



## RexAeterna

warriorant said:


> The Krell KSA 250 ran $5700 in 1991.  But you also had to own a private turbine to power it.  :veryevil:     Running Class A it dimmed the entire East Coast when I turned it on...
> 
> Power consumption: 12A continuous.




so that was you causing all the brown-outs in the past. i should of known. people be like:

person: ''What not another brown-out. that was like the fifth time!''


Me: '' probably someone powering up their krell amp again.''


----------



## Meewoo

LOL!
   
  Hope you get your HK pre sort out!!
  There is a Kenwood C2(?)  Pre at my local for $100 some time now, and no one bites. I checked AK and some Kenwood fans there gave a lot praise for KA-7300 Pre-part.
  Did HK make Citation in the same period with 770? What's the model of Citation? Upon looking the impressive building quality of HK 770, I think Citation series in the same age should be top notch.
   
  edited: I found it, what a amazing citation http://www.thevintageknob.org/harman_kardon-Citation_XX.html


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> so that was you causing all the brown-outs in the past. i should of known. people be like:
> person: ''What not another brown-out. that was like the fifth time!''
> Me: '' probably someone powering up their krell amp again.''


 


  Here is the funny and scary part of all that.  When I lived in CT every so often one would read about a town police department raiding someones home because the electrical bill was suspicious.  The logic was that it was too high for a normal household (whatever that is) and therefore there must be some illicit operation going on inside the home to consume so much electricity such as a marijuana grow operation.  So the police would get a warrant and eventually raid the home only to find a family living there that was simply using a whole lot of electricity and nothing else.  
   
  I used to worry that my big Krells, Classe pre amp, Theta Digital DAC, 2 computers, large microwave, 100 gallon fish tank, 2 large cathode ray tube TV's, electric dryer, dishwasher, track lighting,  and electric stove would bring the local police down on me.  I was pretty sure the Krell as going to tip the scales... 

 Apparently this happens all over the country. 
   
  http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-73644.html

 http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/no-more-privacy-smart-meters-are-surveillance-devices-that-monitor-the-behavior-in-your-home-every-single-minute-of-every-single-day
   
  http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/331/utilitybill.shtml


----------



## Meewoo

deleted.


----------



## palmfish

warriorant said:


> Here is the funny and scary part of all that.  When I lived in CT every so often one would read about a town police department raiding someones home because the electrical bill was suspicious.  The logic was that it was too high for a normal household (whatever that is) and therefore there must be some illicit operation going on inside the home to consume so much electricity such as a marijuana grow operation.  So the police would get a warrant and eventually raid the home only to find a family living there that was simply using a whole lot of electricity and nothing else.
> 
> I used to worry that my big Krells, Classe pre amp, Theta Digital DAC, 2 computers, large microwave, 100 gallon fish tank, 2 large cathode ray tube TV's, electric dryer, dishwasher, track lighting,  and electric stove would bring the local police down on me.  I was pretty sure the Krell as going to tip the scales...
> 
> ...




Of course those publications are completely factual and unbiased...:rolleyes:

The fact is that "probable cause" articulated in a sworn affidavit before a judge is required to get a search warrant. High power consumption alone is insufficient to establish probable cause. I'm thinking there are some pertinent facts being excluded from the stories you have read.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Of course those publications are completely factual and unbiased...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 One of the people who's home was raided back in 2004 lived one town over from me.   The electric company alerted the police to the families "excessive" usage.  So they observed the home and on garbage day they saw the owner taking the trash to the curb just as the garbage truck was pulling up wand found that behavior "suspicious".  Then they brought in a drug sniffing dog.  The dog apparently reacted "positive"  when walked "near" the home.  A warrant was issued and the police broke into the home which had no small effect on the mother at home and her two small children.  What did they find?  Simply a household that had been using a large amount of electricity and absolutely on sign of any illegal activity whatsoever. Those were all the pertinent facts shown to the judge.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> One of the people who's home was raided back in 2004 lived one town over from me.   The electric company alerted the police to the families "excessive" usage.  So they observed the home and on garbage day they saw the owner taking the trash to the curb just as the garbage truck was pulling up wand found that behavior "suspicious".  Then they brought in a drug sniffing dog.  The dog apparently reacted "positive"  when walked "near" the home.  A warrant was issued and the police broke into the home which had no small effect on the mother at home and her two small children.  What did they find?  Simply a household that had been using a large amount of electricity and absolutely on sign of any illegal activity whatsoever. Those were all the pertinent facts shown to the judge.


 

 As far as you know...


----------



## Magick Man

rexaeterna said:


> i'm totally jelly right now. i can never for the life of me score good kenwood stuff. not at all for some reason. my luck seems to be either sansui,yamaha or other brands. never kenwood. kenwood gear everytime i find some they're either very bad condition or very over priced locally. actually that's kinda a lie cause when i scored that yamaha m-45 power amp for 40 bucks about month ago i found a very heavy and pretty kenwood KR-7070 receiver i believe was the model for 75 bucks. wood cab looked good but i was so drawn to the yammy i lost total interest in the other stuff at the trading post.




This M2A is a monster, it drives headphones with authority. Turning the gain knobs a little past 9 o'clock is as far as I can go with my Q701s before I risk hearing damage. There's deep black background, neutrality, and no coloration at all, just brute force. I have no doubt it would grab cans like the HE-6 by the scruff of the neck and make them do what it wants. I'm sure it would look at amps like the Darkstar and Lyr and say, "well, that's cute, let me show you something".


----------



## AppleDappleman

Would the Sansui 6060 be enough to drive my Hifiman He-5le? Its only 75$ 

 To be honest, I have no idea what to look for in a vintage amp.


----------



## wje

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Would the Sansui 6060 be enough to drive my Hifiman He-5le? Its only 75$
> 
> To be honest, I have no idea what to look for in a vintage amp.


 
   
  It shouldn't be an issue at all.  I'm assuming the 6060 put out about 40 watts per channel.  The headphone section of the vintage Sansui receivers (as well as other vintage receivers) is really good.  I have a Sansui 881 pushing my HE-5LEs and it does an excellent job.  I feed my Sansui with a Squeezebox as my music source.  Most of my files are in FLAC format.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Have a Sansui 9090. That my friend rocks some headphones.


----------



## Silent One

My Vintage Iron isn't heavy enough (SX-650). Anyone set to do some Spring cleaning?


----------



## RexAeterna

meewoo said:


> LOL!
> 
> Hope you get your HK pre sort out!!
> There is a Kenwood C2(?)  Pre at my local for $100 some time now, and no one bites. I checked AK and some Kenwood fans there gave a lot praise for KA-7300 Pre-part.
> ...




thanks. thing is everything perfectly works except the pre-out in the back(using headphones is perfect on the headout). probably need rca jack replacements but when i was testing it the couple transistors in the case seem like what's used to drive the preouts gets insanely hot after few seconds so that is possibility why it's dropping channels out so i have to figure something out. if not tonight i be at local shop tomorrow morning to drop it after cause the tech i know has over 30 years experience working on audio gear and electronics and knows how to do a great job,and knows his stuff on what parts work with what and know how to retune anything. he tweaked my yamaha's a bit when he fixed them and got them sounding better then ever. same thing with every other receiver/amp i brought him.

 not costly either. i never paid more then 100 bucks with him to get an amp fully serviced and fully tweaked. he just charges me for the parts and not really for any labor at all. awesome thing is after he's done his work he shows me what he did and how he did it and why. reason why i keep going back.

this weekend i don't know what model but the guy i got the H/K 770 power amp and h/k 775 pre combo from asked if i want a big realistic receiver and couple turntables that been sitting around so i be getting a hold of them this weekend also. i believe pioneer OEM realistic stuff right? i know lot of their speakers were pioneer rebranded.

yea i believe H/K tried making the hk 700 series almost identical to the earlier Citation series and by that keeping their units completely discrete with no ic's and dual power transformers. H/K stuff was manufactured in japan so not much people really cared for them but in recent times the Citation power amps and preamps been pretty high demand. kinda like yamaha where they kept their designs pretty much the same but just with more power output.


----------



## RexAeterna

magick man said:


> This M2A is a monster, it drives headphones with authority. Turning the gain knobs a little past 9 o'clock is as far as I can go with my Q701s before I risk hearing damage. There's deep black background, neutrality, and no coloration at all, just brute force. I have no doubt it would grab cans like the HE-6 by the scruff of the neck and make them do what it wants. I'm sure it would look at amps like the Darkstar and Lyr and say, "well, that's cute, let me show you something".




i can see why. it's just a power amp so it's all about power and transparency. the coloration always comes from the preamp or preamp section. power amps are usually design to be completely as transparent as possible. thing is odd i never knew much power amps at having headphone jacks. that's actually a rarity. usually it's on the preamp so your basically getting more of a pure signal from it without the coloration of the preamp. curious,what do you have plugged in the inputs? reason why, higher the voltage you feed the inputs of the power amp,higher the voltages will get fed to the headphone output. same with preamps. using a balanced,high voltage sources with atleast a +4dbu gain(1.23v RMS) can have some pretty amazing results with these amps.


----------



## Magick Man

rexaeterna said:


> i can see why. it's just a power amp so it's all about power and transparency. the coloration always comes from the preamp or preamp section. power amps are usually design to be completely as transparent as possible. thing is odd i never knew much power amps at having headphone jacks. that's actually a rarity. usually it's on the preamp so your basically getting more of a pure signal from it without the coloration of the preamp. curious,what do you have plugged in the inputs? reason why, higher the voltage you feed the inputs of the power amp,higher the voltages will get fed to the headphone output. same with preamps. using a balanced,high voltage sources with atleast a +4dbu gain(1.23v RMS) can have some pretty amazing results with these amps.




Right now It's hooked up to my Little Dot DAC_I. 

Output Voltage:
RCA non-balanced output: 2V (RMS) per channel
XLR balanced output: 2 x 2V (RMS) per channel
Power Consumption: 10 VA
Fuse Rating: 1A


----------



## RexAeterna

magick man said:


> Right now It's hooked up to my Little Dot DAC_I.
> Output Voltage:
> RCA non-balanced output: 2V (RMS) per channel
> XLR balanced output: 2 x 2V (RMS) per channel
> ...




very interesting seeing an unbalance signal having such a high voltage output. usually unbalanced sources are -10dbv rating which is well under 1v . looks good though. maybe one day you can see how the matching kenwood C-2 preamp sound with the power amp and compare difference between using the little dot and kenwood as a pre like. have you ever tired balanced xlr to rca jacks to see how it's like because they do make balanced rca jacks with separate ground wiring for each plug. i use balanced 1/4'' TRS to RCA jacks for my interface. i also use the headphone jack as extra output. not really any difference but i like using balanced sources just for the higher voltage outputs and if i need to use directly as a passive preamp if needed.


----------



## Philimon

Newegg was having a sale on these subwoofers (half off w/ free shipping). I bought two: one for my home theater, and another for my 2 channel system. 
   
  I tried looking up how to connect a subwoofer to a vintage receiver, and the best recommendation I could find was hooking the subwoofer up to the "B" speaker outs. However, I read a couple posts saying the A+B outputs need to be in parallel and not in series. I have a LUXMAN R-1050 and Marantz 2252 (prefer the Lux). *Does anyone know if either of those are in parallel, or how I could find out?*
   
  Another question: Is it possible to hook up both subs to a vintage receiver to do the separate L/R signals?
   
  Another question: Same as above, except with my home theater receiver, a Marantz SR6005. It has two subwoofer line outs, but the manual says they output the same signal. Is there also anyway I could make that receiver do L/R subs too?
   

   
  Thank you!


----------



## Skylab

Those pictures are pretty low res, but if I read them right, then the sub has speaker level inputs for the right and left channel? If so, just connect those to the B speaker inputs.  This will work fine.  A powered subwoofer presents no meaningful load on the receiver.


----------



## Philimon

The Newegg pics you have to click zoom-in a couple times, then it takes a few seconds for the hi-res pics to load. 
   
  Thank you Skylab for the info. I will do as you recommended. However, I still need to know if these receivers are in parallel or not.


----------



## Philimon

Wait, do you mean for a powered subwoofer that in-series or parallel does not matter?
   
  And if I wanted to hook up both subs to a vintage receiver, would it be okay if I just hooked up the receiver's speaker left output to one sub's left speaker-in, and then the right out to another sub's right speaker-in? I know that question sounds self-explanatory, but I am a total noob with subs, and I don't want to damage anything. It's also confusing cause each sub has both inputs for L/R, so it is confusing. Does it need both hooked up to work? Why just use one sub, when there are 2 channels of music? Seems like there should be just one set of inputs on a sub, just like a speaker.


----------



## Skylab

Just connect the subs "normally", which will mean in parallel, don't mess with trying to do it in series.  Again, a powered sub presents a totally benign load to the amp - there is basically nothing there the amp has to "drive".  If you are connecting two subs, still use the "B"speaker outs, and run R to the R input on the right sub, and L to the L input on the left sub


----------



## Rawrbington

So I haggled back and forth with this local guy with a great collection of vintage speakers and amps. Couldn't get him low enough on the sx 1050 and after thinking that the sx 950 I already have is fine, I decided to give the very very near mint marantz 2245 he had a listen. Wow. A very different sound than the pioneers. More colored but still awesomely smooth and warm. 
   
  Now as the 1050 and the 2245 sat there both turned off I couldn't help but think the marantz was a bit plain looking in comparison. But when he powered it up those thoughts immediately changed to holy crap that's sexy. Absolutely flawless faceplate and lighting. He opened it up and not a spec of dust rust or dirt. Beautiful piece of equipment.  
   
  Long story short I talked him down to 225$ on it. I'd have liked it more at 200 but the opportunity to score a flawless marantz locally is rare. So I took it.  Going to pick her up tonight.  Pics to come
   
  I only got to hear it with speakers, and man it's lush.
   
  What should I expect from its phono stage and HP jack?


----------



## Skylab

Yup, wonderful warm and beautiful sound from that vintage of Marantz. I love my 2285.  Wonderful receiver.  
   
  The Phono stage in the 2285 is excellent, as is the FM tuner, BTW.  Make sure to connect an antenna - its worth it! 
   
  The headphone out is also excellent - the 2285 effortlessly powers my HE-6.  The 2285 is 85 wpc versus the 45 wpc in yours, so not sure the HPO would run the HE-6, but it will surely run any other headphone you could throw at it.
   
  If the one you bought is in good shape, you got a very nice piece at a very good price.  Congrats!


----------



## Meewoo

Marantz 2245 with wood case at $225 is very good price. Marantz has much higher resale value than other common brands at lower power model.
  If you aren't into Marantz brand, I think you can get a Yammy CR-1020 or even Ca-1000 around same price with more power.


----------



## jc9394

On Marantz, what is the difference between "b" version compare to the regular one?  I have the 2265b and wonder if it is worth it for me to look for a regular version.


----------



## Meewoo

B is a late version with transparent glass. The non-b version has smoke (dark, can't see any index if turned off) glass. Other than that, not much change. I like non-b version looking.
   
  Oh, on the integrate version, B-version might not have pre out and power in. They also look difference with slider on B-version. On int amp, people seem to prefer non-b version, some even built in USA.


----------



## Rawrbington

No wood case for my 2245 unfortunately Meewoo. 
  =(
   
  but he has one, heck he has several.
  the guy has 6 yes SIX 2245s in various conditions
  a mint 2252
  a mint 2215
  a champaign face 2265 that is immaculate( i have to point out that this thing was stunning.  absolutely stunning)  but it may have been a 2270.  not 100% sure.  i had never seen or even heard of the champaign faced marantz.
   
  a NOS in original box 2235B
  and
  a 2325 which is not currently in working order.
   
  and then he has the SX 1050  and SX 850 both in phenomenal condition as well.
   
  oh and a Rotel integrated that is crazy sexy
   
  and then theres the TT and speakers which i wont go into.


----------



## wotts

Sounds like a road trip is in order... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The champagne faced Marantz has my attention. I love the look of the current production models in that color.

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> No wood case for my 2245 unfortunately Meewoo.
> =(
> 
> but he has one, heck he has several.
> ...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





> a champaign face 2265 that is immaculate( i have to point out that this thing was stunning.  absolutely stunning)  but it may have been a 2270.  not 100% sure.  i had never seen or even heard of the champaign faced marantz.
> 
> oh and a Rotel integrated that is crazy sexy


 
  I never heard champaign (it has a name related to military) Marantz also. I missed a black 2285 for $50 long time ago. Why not get 2270 for around $300?
  
  If his Rotel is RA-1412 or RA-2004, could you ask the price quote for me? Thanks!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Meewoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Why not get 2270 for around $300?
> 
> If his Rotel is RA-1412 or RA-2004, could you ask the price quote for me? Thanks!


 

 i'd love a 2270 for 300$.
  where?
   
  i will find out.


----------



## Meewoo

I mean you talk to the old gents to sell.


----------



## Rawrbington

I will find out what he's got and if it's for sale. The rotel I mean


----------



## colinharding

I know this doesn't quite fit as it's not a full blown integrated receiver, but it is from the era we are talking about at least lol.  Picked up a Vintage Onkyo T-4055 tuner last weekend. The lights didn't work but weren't hard to fix, also replaced all the caps and the thing sounds great!  Real thick tubey 3d sound from a solid state piece.  These things can be had for cheap if you still listen to fm.


----------



## BmWr75

A local buddy of mine went looking for a storage cabinet for his vinyl LPs.  Came home with this for $85.  Nice score!!
   
  All pics are here: http://vintagehifipgh.com/forum/index.php?topic=1739.msg16458#msg16458


----------



## WarriorAnt

Oh Man!


----------



## Rawrbington

got it!
  so its not "mint" but it is in very good condition.
  the headphone jack does sound fantastic.
  better than the SX 950s.
  but the speaker sound is a toss up right now.
  may just need a little more time to get aclimated to the new sound.
   
  let me add that i LOVE the mid controls.  thats awesome.  none of my other receivers have a mid control knob
   
   


   
  @Meewoo, his rotel is actually a sansui integrated. an AU 919 and he said its not for sale.


----------



## RexAeterna

well i figured out what was up with my h/k 725 preamp and got it running good. very simple fix. the h/k 770 power amp and h/k 725 preamp combo is amazing set-up. i actually like the h/k set up as my yamaha m-45. both seem very transparent and pretty much dead neutral. since the h/k 725 preamp is a nicely transparent preamp it matches with the yamaha power amp as well. very good headphone out on the preamp too.

i also was given some turntables yesterday. all in good cosmetic condition. got done testing a Dual 622 and a BIC 40Z turntable and so far between those two i like the BIC more. i also have a very pretty Marantz 6100 turntable here in perfect physical condition. has no cartridge/stylus so gonna wait till i test that out. i might sell the marantz 6100 after i'm done messing with it. not sure. i see how i end up liking it. i got a sony ps-lx250h here as well i was given and gonna test that soon as well.

right now just been enjoying the h/k 700 series combo. these little guys are defiantly sleepers if your looking for a transparent combo.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> the headphone jack does sound fantastic.
> better than the SX 950s.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats!!
  Is this your first Marantz? There are so many members on the thread got Marantz recently and I lost track.
  I would just say Marantz pairing your headphone better.
  You are not the first one to say love the middle range controller! I checked my Pionny, Kenny, Sansui and other stuff. Marantz provide mid control on my 1060. Pionny has none. Kenny Kr receivers have, but Ka-7300 doesn't. My Yammy Cr-820, 1020 have, but Ca don't. Sansui receivers also have, but not AU.  Why not many int amps have mid control even though their relative receivers have??
   
  I like your your rack idea for vintage stuff, but I would put the turntable at lower shelf. So the pretty cat can sleep on the amps. My cat love my turned on amps.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for helping me ask!! The old gents knows stuff, AU-919 definitely a keeper!!
   
  @Rex,
  I saw your posts on AK, I told you the dirty little buttons. And congrats, enjoy!!!


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, Rawrbington! Looks like its in great shape.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Congrats!!
> Is this your first Marantz? There are so many members on the thread got Marantz recently and I lost track.
> I would just say Marantz pairing your headphone better.
> You are not the first one to say love the middle range controller! I checked my Pionny, Kenny, Sansui and other stuff. Marantz provide mid control on my 1060. Pionny has none. Kenny Kr receivers have, but Ka-7300 doesn't. My Yammy Cr-820, 1020 have, but Ca don't. Sansui receivers also have, but not AU.  Why not many int amps have mid control even though their relative receivers have??
> ...


 
  yep.  first marantz
   
  the rack is a makeshift metal wire shelf thing from home depot.  cost 20 bucks but its not ideal.  i think the metal has resonance probably and i just worry about the feet sitting on suck thin wire.  it will probably cause funny indentions on the feet.
   
  so i went to home depot today to buy some hardwood to lay between the equipment and the shelving.  It will work for the pioneer but is about an inch too narrow for the marantz and DLIII
   
  so now i have to go back and try something else  =(
   
   
  Thanks Skylab!  so far im really liking it. 
   
   
  im actually thinking about finding a local carpenter to build me a audio rack for the equipment.
  it shouldn't been too hard
  24 inches wide of usable space, 20 inches deep, 2 9 inch shelves 1 12 inch shelf and a top shelf.  and then tell him to have his way with the artistic and aesthetic looks of it.
   
  what 400$?  500$?


----------



## Magick Man

We have a wholesale furniture outlet nearby and I found something almost exactly like that. They had it tagged as an A/V cabinet, and it's made of solid oak with adjustable shelves for $250. Might want to check that out.


----------



## Rawrbington

man that sounds like a nice find.
  i'll have to go check the local big chain furniture stores.
  most of them are over priced though.
   
   
  any of you smart people know what the output impedance would be if there are 2 47 ohm resistors on the HP jack of the marantz?
 i don't know if they are in parrallel or series though
  i wonder if one resistor is on the postive and the other on the negative?


----------



## Magick Man

Well, it was a "scratch and dent", now that I recall. But I just sanded out the ding in the side, touched it up and it looked like new.


----------



## Rawrbington

I'm really really impressed with this marantz. After spending last night and today with it I'm in love. At first I thought it was nice but then this afternoon I ran it from my digital link III and wow. Not sure if it's the dac or the receiver or both but the live pink floyd album is there anybody out there? Is blowing my mind.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I'm really really impressed with this marantz. After spending last night and today with it I'm in love. At first I thought it was nice but then this afternoon I ran it from my digital link III and wow. Not sure if it's the dac or the receiver or both but the live pink floyd album is there anybody out there? Is blowing my mind.


 
   
  You found your perfect (at least now) fit, congrats!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You aren't looking other vintage stuff now, are you?


----------



## trentino

I bought a Marantz 2270 in need of service. One channel dead, a broken off rca pin stuck in the aux input, and also in need of pot cleaning etcetera. It's been stored away for maybe 10 years, so a bit dusty on the inside. But fairly nice on the outside. Hopefully the local service place can fix it up for me! It's my first Marantz and I really took a chance with this one..


----------



## RexAeterna

i posted this in headphone section but i post here too just in case. quick pics of the h/k 700 series i worked on. took the power amp apart this morning. it was so clean inside and everything checked out well on the bias and stuff so i just sprayed it real quick with some pcb cleaner and so forth.

inside h/k 770 power amp:






the h/k 700 series set:


----------



## Magick Man

rexaeterna said:


> very interesting seeing an unbalance signal having such a high voltage output. usually unbalanced sources are -10dbv rating which is well under 1v . looks good though. maybe one day you can see how the matching kenwood C-2 preamp sound with the power amp and compare difference between using the little dot and kenwood as a pre like. have you ever tired balanced xlr to rca jacks to see how it's like because they do make balanced rca jacks with separate ground wiring for each plug. i use balanced 1/4'' TRS to RCA jacks for my interface. i also use the headphone jack as extra output. not really any difference but i like using balanced sources just for the higher voltage outputs and if i need to use directly as a passive preamp if needed.




Found a Kenwood C2 on ebay for a good price so I bought it. Can't wait to hear how they sound together.


----------



## RexAeterna

magick man said:


> Found a Kenwood C2 on ebay for a good price so I bought it. Can't wait to hear how they sound together.




awesome! can't wait to hear from you about it. i always looked at the kenwood preamps cause i was gonna get one temporary for my yamaha m-45 power amp but then i found local selling the h/k 725 preamp but ended up getting the matching power amp in the process as well. i think i'm gonna continue to use the H/K 700 series as my main set and keep the m-45 as a back up now cause how nice it sounds. good luck on the kenwood. hope it turns out better then your expecting!


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

I'm looking for some advice as to which receiver to get, to listen to vinyl (on Dual CS 630 Q turntable) with my Grado 225i's.
   
  I'm currently using an old (working very well) Sony receiver from the 90's, but the sound out of the headphone jack doesn't sound that great. I've been told to look for an older vintage receiver, so I'm going to hit the thrift shops soon. Any recommendations on what brands to look for?
   
   
  ALSO, I found these, would one of them suit my needs?
  -ONKYO RECEIVER TX-4500 ($50)
  -TOSHIBA RECEIVER SA-750 ($50)
  -ONKYO RECEIVER TX-26 ($40)
  -ROTEL RECEIVER FAX-660a ($65)
  -MARANTZ RECEIVER 1113 (~$100)
  -Realistic Modulette 939 Quadraphonic receiver ($40)
  -Sansui receiver model 210 ($55)
  -Magnum 450 stereo receiver ($85)
  -Marantz 2225 Stereo Receiver ($95)
     
  Thanks for any help


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> I'm looking for some advice as to which receiver to get, to listen to vinyl (on Dual CS 630 Q turntable) with my Grado 225i's.
> 
> I'm currently using an old (working very well) Sony receiver from the 90's, but the sound out of the headphone jack doesn't sound that great. I've been told to look for an older vintage receiver, so I'm going to hit the thrift shops soon. Any recommendations on what brands to look for?
> 
> ...


 
  Not a vintage expert but I love the phone stage of my 2265B


----------



## Meewoo

I would go for Onkyo Tx-4500 or Toshiba SA-750. Marantz 2225 is very good too if it has wood case.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I would go for Onkyo Tx-4500 or Toshiba SA-750. Marantz 2225 is very good too if it has wood case.


 


  thanks. i'd prefer to go cheaper if possible. which of these two would you suggest  (Onkyo Tx-4500 or Toshiba SA-750)???
  Is $50 a fair price, or how much would be reasonable?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> thanks. i'd prefer to go cheaper if possible. which of these two would you suggest  (Onkyo Tx-4500 or Toshiba SA-750)???
> Is $50 a fair price, or how much would be reasonable?


 
  I personally will choose Onkyo first, it rated 60wpc vs. Toshiba 50wpc. I had Onkyo tx-2500ii, it sounds damn good. And believe or not, Onkyo has real front glass. Toshiba is good too, but Onkyo will have  higher resale value.
   
   
  Edited, To me, $50 is more than fair price, especially for Onkyo. But if you are in area floated with vintage stuff, it maybe just fair. I just notice the Onkyo is TX-4500 ii, it's even better.


----------



## wualta

Plus, there's plenty of info about the 4500 on AK, and someone who worked for Onkyo at the time, Tom Ishimoto (hadrian333), has posted about it as well.


----------



## RexAeterna

i like onkyo stuff. very under-rated gear.


----------



## RexAeterna

if anyone in the NJ area is interested in a Yamaha M-45 power amp let me know. i have mine up for trade. you can check my ad on a local CL. will throw in a marantz 6100 turntable as well if i fix it in time(all it needs is a belt replacement).


----------



## Coolzo

My Pioneer SX-780, as per Saturday's (March 10th) Phoenix Head-Fi meet...


----------



## Skylab

Very nice!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





coolzo said:


> My Pioneer SX-780, as per Saturday's Phoenix Head-Fi meet...


 

 I'm in Phoenix today and Thursday for work related meetings.  Sorry I can't hang around until Saturday to meet some Phoenix Head-Fiers.


----------



## Klesk

Not sure if it's vintage, but does anyone have experience with a Denon AVR-1000? I feel that when using the phono input, I get excellent bass response on my K701 without turning up the eq.


----------



## Taowolf51

Hello everyone! 
I'm taking my first steps from headphones to the world of speakers. I decided to start with a vintage system, and found a few things that caught my eye. Among them is an Optonica SM-4545 (SM-4000U in Europe), and I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this amp, including if it is a common ground amp. Among the things I want to drive with it may be a Koss ESP-9 electrostatic with the e/9 energizer.


----------



## Skylab

Optonica was the high end brand of Sharp.  Generally well regarded.  I had one of their integrateds for a while, and it's build quality was really VERY impressive.  Massive transformer.  Nice sounding.  Not familiar with the model you are asking about but from a quick google search it looks well made.


----------



## Meewoo

I have SM-4545 and matcjing tuner ST-3535, it's very well built (better than my pionny SA-9100 and 9500 II).
  And it sounds like my SA-9500ii ,very neutral but not airy as Pionner. Some track of Taylor Swift "Speak now" sounds bright on my SA-9500ii, but not on SM-4545. I sold 9500ii, keep SM-4545 for now.


----------



## Taowolf51

Awesome! Sounds like a nice IA. Does anyone happen to know if it has common ground? I'm looking at a pair of Koss ESP-9's and I'm not sure if the energizer is an E9 or an E9b. If it's an E9, I would need an amp with a common ground, otherwise it will damage the amp.


----------



## Coolzo

@BmWr75, oh no you're fine. I meant that it was last Saturday haha, the meet is where I took the picture. It was small, but we sure had a few nice pieces of gear show up. We are discussing possibly holding another follow-up meet in the summer. It's only an idea at this point though.
  

 Quote:


bmwr75 said:


> I'm in Phoenix today and Thursday for work related meetings.  Sorry I can't hang around until Saturday to meet some Phoenix Head-Fiers.


   

  @Skylab, Thanks! Got it for free from my grandma, was sitting in the garage for a year D: still works like a charm though! Not too shabby at all 
   

  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very nice!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> Awesome! Sounds like a nice IA. *Does anyone happen to know if it has common ground? *I'm looking at a pair of Koss ESP-9's and I'm not sure if the energizer is an E9 or an E9b. If it's an E9, I would need an amp with a common ground, otherwise it will damage the amp.


 

 This I don't know. If you know how to check it, I can take mine apart and take a look.
   
  Today, I took part Tandberg TR-2075 and shocked to find this.

  The whole Tuner part is independent, even the shell. I knew it was built like Lego earlier,  but I don't anticipate such thing. I am now a total believer of European company (not Ikea though).


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> This I don't know. If you know how to check it, I can take mine apart and take a look.


 
  I did a bit of snooping, and found something.
  Apparently you need an ohm meter. Set it to "continuity", and take one lead of the meter and touch the negative terminal of the left output of the amp. Then take the other lead and touch the negative terminal on the right output. If it shows continuity, it is a common ground, if it doesn't, it is non-common ground.
  If you don't have a multimeter, when I pick up the amp, I'll grab one and do it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> I did a bit of snooping, and found something.
> Apparently you need an ohm meter. Set it to "continuity", and take one lead of the meter and touch the negative terminal of the left output of the amp. Then take the other lead and touch the negative terminal on the right output. If it shows continuity, it is a common ground, if it doesn't, it is non-common ground.
> If you don't have a multimeter, when I pick up the amp, I'll grab one and do it.


 

 Should I test it when amp is on? And the output means speaker output?
   
  I have multimeter, but I have to buy a battery tomorrow. I will test it tomorrow.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Should I test it when amp is on? And the output means speaker output?
> 
> I have multimeter, but I have to buy a battery tomorrow. I will test it tomorrow.


 

 I believe it is with the amp off, and no speakers attached.
   
  And yes, speaker output.
   
  Thank you very much!


----------



## Meewoo

I am such a fool, how could I test ohm when amps is on? ( I haven't actually done it.)
  Anyway, I did the test and my multimeter "beeped ". According to manual, it's continuity. So the amp is common grounded.


----------



## Taowolf51

Awesome, thanks so much! I'm picking up the receiver tomorrow. 
   
  EDIT: I picked it up! I'm now a proud owner of an Optonica SM-4000U!


----------



## wikinger

if its plastic,it aint vintage.just black and ugly


----------



## mac336

anyone know much about the marantz PM 325 amp.  How good would you say it is with headphones?


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wikinger said:


> if its plastic,it aint vintage.just black and ugly


 


  Optonicas are not plastic and they are very heavy.  They have beautifully machined knobs.  The nice pieces of equipment.


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> Awesome, thanks so much! I'm picking up the receiver tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT: I picked it up! I'm now a proud owner of an Optonica SM-4000U!


 

  
  Congratulations!!!! Is it similar to this one?

  Hopefully it's completely functional without any resistor or capacitor issues. I'm sure you'll be fine. That'll be a keeper. I didn't think you'd find that common ground thing out so fast. Have to love this place for that.
   
  Thought I'd chime in on an amplifier I picked up a bit ago which I am using to power my headphones now ( Stats/dynamics ).
  It should be interesting to old school amplifier people like yourselves.
   
  This thing_ probably couldn't be distinguished from new_, and it's early 60's( ~63 ish ). All original exterior/cosmetics( even the original power cord is still soft! ). Completely redone inside. Got it from Jef at Abraxasaudio. And his custom tube amps... the guy sure knows his stuff, this was a minor side project of his. Really nice and outgoing_._ ( he'll be doing my tube amp when I get around to it )
_Every_ cap replaced with new "audio grade" Nichicons ( some electrolytics in certain critical locations replaced with foils ), _all _resistors new %1 metal foil , output section emitter resistors replaced with high grade wire wound, germanium transistors.
   
_A few tweaks also_:
  * With the higher output of CD decks, he changed the ratio on the aux jack to more comfortably accommodate these levels, also slightly changed the Tuner input ratio to more modern standards
  * Bleeder resistor to the speaker side of the output cap to prevent cap popping when speakers selected.
  * In the aux/tuner position the phono FB compensation is removed and a different compensation is added: In this circuit he  replaced a small ceramic cap with a film improving sound
  * Replaced that flaky bias pot with a mil-spec quality pot ( Bias also reset: he stated "Amp really comes into its own after about 10-20 minutes when the bias current settles in as the output section warms." )
   
*SPECS:*
  The owner's manual contains no published specs.
 The manual describes it as a "30 Watt Solid State Amplifier".
 Optimistic theoretical power based on the power supply would be 24W/ch. perhaps
 giving rise to the 224 model number (old IHF standard).
 Actual power as measured by modern standards is 8Wrms/ch.
  Measured 0.2% THD at 1KHz there. Noise is -60db.
   
Yeah I lifted the majority of the above information from the stuff he let me know , also got the original owner's manual, some spare transistors, copies of schematics with all his changes too in a folder!
   
  There is ZERO noise in this thing. Not like the spare parts one I got recently briefly tested it and it was bad for noise. Old style resistors I assume.  I don't use this amp for speakers at all, and seem to be partial to old smaller stuff. This is only about 8x 10 x 4 inches.
_*Sounds absolutely beautiful!*_ No worries now for what at least 30 more years 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now for the pics.
*Lafayette LA-224T*
   



   
  Hope this was an interesting viewing. I get to view it every day, but I'm scared of marking it up and extra cautious with it.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





wikinger said:


> if its plastic,it aint vintage.just black and ugly


 

 Dunno if you were talking about my amp or not, but my Optonica is all metal and wood. The bugger weighs nearly 40 pounds. 

  
  Quote: 





nick n said:


> Congratulations!!!! Is it similar to this one?
> 
> Hopefully it's completely functional without any resistor or capacitor issues. I'm sure you'll be fine. That'll be a keeper. I didn't think you'd find that common ground thing out so fast. Have to love this place for that.


 
  Looks almost exactly like that. That is the SM-4545, where mine is the SM-4000U. Same IA, but the 4545 is the US name, and 4000U is the European name (which I think is cool, since I'm in the US; I wonder what story this IA holds!).
  Also, apparently the seller I bought it from spent $100 having everything that was wearing down replaced, so it should last me a good long while!
   
  And that's a beauty you've got there! (Clipped pics and text for space).


----------



## palmfish

I sold my Peachtree Nova today so I dug out my old Carver and put it back into service. Oh my what a difference it makes with my speakers! The Nova is a terrific jack-of-all-trades, but I was never happy with it's speaker amp performance. 140WPC made all the difference.
   
  This thing is a beast though, so I had to do a little surgery to my cabinet to get it inside. No worries, it's an inexpensive cabinet with a perf board back panel...
   
  Sorry, I'm not a great photographer. At least you can see what it looks like.


----------



## Taowolf51

I was able to get the needed cable to hook up my amp to my speakers, and my god does it have a ton of power!
  Kinda scares me a lil' bit.
   
  And my god how good the sound is, both from speakers and headphones!
   
  All I need is an ODAC, and my setup will be complete.


----------



## nick n

^ jealous of that Optonica. What speakers are you using?


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





nick n said:


> ^ jealous of that Optonica. What speakers are you using?


 

 Polk Monitor 7's at the moment. The guy I bought the Optonica from was demoing it with a pair of Definitive Technology DR7s, and a pair of Acoustic Research speakers (forget the name, he mentioned they were something like $1400 per speaker new, though which was sometime in the 90s I think.)
   
  Then he brought out his *immaculate* Infinity IIIb's connected to one hell of a rack. *melt*


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> I was able to get the needed cable to hook up my amp to my speakers, and my god does it have a ton of power!
> Kinda scares me a lil' bit.
> 
> And my god how good the sound is, both from speakers and headphones!
> ...


 

 Congrats!
   
  Don't forget to post some photos.
   
  I had Polk Monitor 10 before, and SM-4545 can drive them without sweat. (Old Polk monitors are good speakers.)  I am still looking for Optonica SM-4646, which is later model but with three transformers, two for two channels and one for Pre-amp.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Don't forget to post some photos.
> 
> I had Polk Monitor 10 before, and SM-4545 can drive them without sweat. (Old Polk monitors are good speakers.)  I am still looking for Optonica SM-4646, which is later model but with three transformers, two for two channels and one for Pre-amp.


 

 I can't take pics of the whole setup yet, as it's just sitting on my computer desk at the moment (I kick my rollie chair back to listen to music haha), but once I move into my new apartment within a few weeks, I'll take pictures of my new setup. I'm imagining an audio battlestation. 
  But, I can disconnect the receiver and take some nice pics; I'll do that now, actually. 
   
  I never expected this amp to make this much of a difference. I didn't have enough experience with the speakers to notice the fine differences, but I still notice a *major* quality jump.
  And for headphones, it's just SOOOO good. My Rastapants (modded t50rp's) now finally have a worthy amp, and my Denons have gotten so tight and fast I can't keep up!
   
  One thing that's gotten me confused is that even though this was the European model, it has the standard US 2 prong power plug. o_0


----------



## Magick Man

Yeah, I'm convinced a solid IA is the best way to go to power headphones. While headphone amps are a good idea, the prices that high quality amps command right now are a little out there. I guess it's the rising popularity of the hobby.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





magick man said:


> *Yeah, I'm convinced a solid IA is the best way to go to power headphones.*


 

 Another IA lover. For some unknown reason, I prefer IA to receiver.


----------



## Taowolf51

Some quick pics. Open in new window to see a bigger version.


----------



## Meewoo

Nice!
   
  Here is mine with walnuts wood side.


----------



## nick n

Wow that's sure in nice shape. Also nice to know the person you got it from is legit and had a taste for high quality stuff. That's got to be a bit reassuring too. I just don't understand the dedicated headphone amp thing these days, I guess if you had a specific application for one, but for the cost of some of those as Magick Man mentioned you can get an excellent integrated for less, or a few of them
   The silver faces and wood gets me every time I see it.
   
  Palmfish that Carver looks like it must weigh in at about 1000 lbs.


----------



## Skylab

I am trying to learn more about the care and maintenance of vintage gear, and yesterday was "DC Offset" day at my house. After reading up extensively on the topic over on AudioKarma, and after getting the service manuals for my vinatage receivers, I broke out my MultiMeter yesterday and did some testing. My three receivers that had been restored and recapped - one of my Pioneer SX-1980's, my Marantz 2285' and my Sansui 9090DB all checked out fine. My stock but "serviced" SX-1250 also checked out fine. But my stock SX-1980 most definitely did NOT - it had almost ONE VOLT of DC offset! Ideally you'd like no more than 15mv, and ideal is ZERO! Its actually surprising this much DC offset didnt trip the protection circuit.

So I carefully read the adjustment procedure in the service manual, and then carefully made the adjustment (note that if you are not comfortable using a multimeter, and with electronics testing in general, you shouldn't do this yourself). Now it reads about 14mv on each channel - from 900mv to 14! Not surprisingly it also sounds much better 

So if you have vintage gear, own a MultiMeter, and you are comfortable working inside electronic devices (again do NOT do this if you don't know what you are doing), I recommend checking your DC offset, and if it is possible (not every amp allows for it to be adjusted), then adjust it as close to zero as you can. Your amp, speakers, and ears will be happy you did!


----------



## WarriorAnt

I keep reading  that DC Offset over on AudioKarma but I never get around to doing it.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am trying to learn more about the care and maintenance of vintage gear, and yesterday was "DC Offset" day at my house. After reading up extensively on the topic over on AudioKarma, and after getting the service manuals for my vinatage receivers, I broke out my MultiMeter yesterday and did some testing. My three receivers that had been restored and recapped - one of my Pioneer SX-1980's, my Marantz 2285' and my Sansui 9090DB all checked out fine. My stock but "serviced" SX-1250 also checked out fine. But my stock SX-1980 most definitely did NOT - it had almost ONE VOLT of DC offset! Ideally you'd like no more than 15mv, and ideal is ZERO! Its actually surprising this much DC offset didnt trip the protection circuit.
> So I carefully read the adjustment procedure in the service manual, and then carefully made the adjustment (note that if you are not comfortable using a multimeter, and with electronics testing in general, you shouldn't do this yourself). Now it reads about 14mv on each channel - from 900mv to 14! Not surprisingly it also sounds much better
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I always do DC offset test before I connect my home speakers. (I bring a pair crappy small speakers and my headphones when I buy the amps.) I haven't encounter many high DC offset yet.
  I got a SX-525 for free when neighbor moved out, and guess what, it has nearly *24v* on each channel. And the SX-525 can't adjust DC offset normal way. And I am stuck with 24v, and I don't dare to connect my crappy speakers with it too. When I plug my headphone to it every time, I heard a loud sparkle. But I can enjoy it then.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> One thing that's gotten me confused is that even though this was the European model, it has the standard US 2 prong power plug. o_0


 

  
  Someone probably changed the plug.  The one European amp I have just has a plug adapter because it can accept either voltage.  It has some odd European, 2 pronged speaker taps for the B speakers and I've seen at least one European amp that has all DIN connections instead of RCA.  Those are more of a problem than plugs.


----------



## Wharfrat

Skylab wrote:
   
_"So if you have vintage gear, own a MultiMeter, and you are comfortable working inside electronic devices (again do NOT do this if you don't know what you are doing), I recommend checking your DC offset, and if it is possible (not every amp allows for it to be adjusted), then adjust it as close to zero as you can. Your amp, speakers, and ears will be happy you did!"  _
   
Would you please share with us the change you noticed after the DC offset correction on the 1280 was made?  Also,  though I have been over to AK, their search engine is kinda iffy....so a link to the DC offset thread that you found most instructive would be helpful....
   
I have 3 vintage units now and would like to check them out....I plan to start DIY  HP amp efforts this summer with the help of some local tube and transistor DIY aficonados, Dan Schamlle over at Bottlehead being one of them (such a sweet guy!)....so it would be a good way to get into the innards and do a DC offset check once I get comfortable with the safety practices and use of a multimeter...
   
thanks...


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





scompton said:


> Someone probably changed the plug.  The one European amp I have just has a plug adapter because it can accept either voltage.  It has some odd European, 2 pronged speaker taps for the B speakers and I've seen at least one European amp that has all DIN connections instead of RCA.  Those are more of a problem than plugs.


 

 That makes the most sense. He must have done a good job, since it looks stock. He also replaced the power plug outputs as well (to plug in things like a tuner, record player, popcorn machine).


----------



## wuwhere

Yea, you don't want any dcv to get to your precious can.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Wharfrat* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also,  though I have been over to AK, their search engine is kinda iffy....so a link to the DC offset thread that you found most instructive would be helpful....


 

 Could it be this sticky?
   
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5634


----------



## Skylab

Yes indeed, that is absolutely the right thread. Very helpful. Note that you can REALLY destroy your amp by adjusting the bias, so I don't recommend messing with that. But adjusting DC offset, while still requiring care, doesn't carry with it the same disaster potential unless you drop your screwdriver on an output device or something - the usual risks of working on an amp with the cover off and the power on, which certainly mean you need to be very careful, as indicated in that thread.

Proper DC offset yields less distortion, and a smoother sound, as well as reducing the risk of speaker damage which can happen if you have a high DC offset.


----------



## wuwhere

Oh yea, one has to be really really careful when adjusting trim pots. They are very very sensitive, just a slight twist with a screw driver could be a few mA. And very important, use a very good DMM. I use a Fluke 89 IV True RMS DMM, not cheap but worth it.


----------



## Rawrbington

im interested in the offset as well.
  problem is i don't want to accidentally alter the bias instead of the other offset.
  theres 4 trim pots in a very close proximity.
  guess i should measure the offset before i start worrying about changing it.
   
  my latest addition to my listening area:


----------



## wuwhere

Here's also a way to measure DC offset from your hp amp http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/dcoffset.htm


----------



## Skylab

For sure, measure first! If you have a Multimeter, measuring is very easy. Take a measurement are report back


----------



## wualta

Yes, Skylab's advice is absolutely to be followed on this one. Don't even think about touching any internal trimpots without measuring DC offset first, following EchoWars' procedure outlined in that sticky at AudioKarma. Even then, think at least 3 times before attempting to correct a known problem. Get the service manual and study it. You want to be absolutely certain that the trimpot you're about to adjust is the one you think it is.
   
  Meanwhile, for those who don't have a meter (but you're all planning to get one, right?), a quickie go/no-go Danger Test for DC offset. Disconnect all speakers from the amp under test. Fire it up and turn the volume all the way down; silence the inputs; let it warm for at least 5 minutes. Then connect_* one*_ side of an efficient speaker to the amp (red or black, doesn't matter), then lightly flick the other amp terminal with the other speaker wire. If you hear any crackle from the speaker when you flick, that's DC. A very faint crackle is okay. If it sounds like you're brushing the terminals of a 9v battery-- or even a 1.5v D cell-- something's wrong and further investigation is called for.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Nice!
> 
> Here is mine with walnuts wood side.


 

 Nice, no idea what the wood on mine is. Looks like it matches my Polk's, though, so my guess would be rosewood.
  And it seems my function knob isn't stock, may try to see if I can find a replacement. By the way, do you happen to know what the turnover switches do?


----------



## Philimon

Just wanted to update and thanks Skylab for the help. I've hooked up dual subwoofers to my vintage receiver and it works fine. My speakers supposedly go down to 45Hz, so I set the subs' crossovers at 45Hz. Going by ear, since I don't have a good SPL meter to help fine tune. The subs turn on/off automatically.
   
  Subs are being used as stands:


----------



## Magick Man

Actually, if I may make a suggestion, set the x-over at @52Hz, for better blending. Usually speaker manufacturers measure the FR rating +/- 6dB, you could lose some program info by setting exactly according to their spec.


----------



## trentino

Anyone tried the hp out of Marantz pm66se ki sig? I wonder if the amps from that era also are good, as the older Marantz..


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> Nice, no idea what the wood on mine is. Looks like it matches my Polk's, though, so my guess would be rosewood.
> And it seems my function knob isn't stock, may try to see if I can find a replacement. By the way, do you happen to know what the turnover switches do?


 

 The "turnover" is just "frequency". When you turn the variable (tone) on, and you turn the bass or treble knob, you can change the tone. If you put turnover under bass to 300hz, the bass knob is controlled to boost or reduce bass at 300hz; same as treble. Many people here don't mess with tone control since tone control adds distortion.(correct me if I am wrong)


----------



## Philimon

magick man said:


> Actually, if I may make a suggestion, set the x-over at @52Hz, for better blending. Usually speaker manufacturers measure the FR rating +/- 6dB, you could lose some program info by setting exactly according to their spec.


 

 I made it so. Thanks for the tip Magick Man.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> The "turnover" is just "frequency". When you turn the variable (tone) on, and you turn the bass or treble knob, you can change the tone. If you put turnover under bass to 300hz, the bass knob is controlled to boost or reduce bass at 300hz; same as treble. Many people here don't mess with tone control since tone control adds distortion.(correct me if I am wrong)


 

 That makes sense, thanks. 
  I'm actually shocked at the quality of the bass and treble knobs. If I don't have an EQ handy (like with MOG), I can throw the turnover to 6Khz, dial the treble down a notch, and kill sibilance (in my headphones) without really affecting any other part of the highs.
  The bass knob is just as effective, though I usually don't use it. Doesn't interfere with the mids or any other part of the spectrum at all, and the bass itself isn't any worse off, there's just more of it.
  I have noticed that the left channel can get quiet after some time (both headphones and speakers, though it only happened once with the latter). I'm going to see if I can figure out what that is.


----------



## Skylab

Good tone controls are one of the most awesome things about vintage amps. I use the ones on my SX-1980 quite frequently. Not all recordings are perfect


----------



## Rawrbington

man i just tested the offset on 2 of my vintage receivers.
  one measured  4mV on the left channel and 1.9 mV on the right
  and the other measured less that 1 mV on both channels.
   
  i think i measured it wrong.
  or my buddy had the multimeter set up wrong.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> man i just tested the offset on 2 of my vintage receivers.
> one measured  4mV on the left channel and 1.9 mV on the right
> and the other measured less that 1 mV on both channels.
> 
> ...


 


  Those are very good numbers.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah but im worried they are too good.
   
  the meter was giving higher numbers from my finger or just the air in the room...
   
  and my buddy with the meter is one of those guys that you absolutely cannot tell him how to do anything, because he already knows better.
   
  so i started reading the instructions to check it and he got irritated with me and flips a few setting on the meter and then hands it to me and leaves.
   
  so idk if it was set up to test correctly.  i set it to dc and 200 mV range...
  but that was all i knew to do with his meter


----------



## wualta

...Does that mean it's YOUR meter now?


----------



## wotts

I checked mine and found it to be 9mV on the left and 20mV on the right. Going to look up the service manual for the 2265B now. I'd like to see if I can dial it further down.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> yeah but im worried they are too good.
> 
> the meter was giving higher numbers from my finger or just the air in the room...


 

  You are worried over nothing.  Be happy your receivers measure so good.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I checked mine and found it to be 9mV on the left and 20mV on the right. Going to look up the service manual for the 2265B now. I'd like to see if I can dial it further down.


 


  Honestly I am not sure with those numbers that I would mess with it.  It can be VERY difficult to get old trip pots to adjust precisely.  You might not be able to get the numbers to be better, and you might make it worse.  Just FWIW.


  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> You are worried over nothing.  Be happy your receivers measure so good.


 
   
  Amen!


----------



## rgoodearth

I just read your email on the JVC JR301 INTEGRATED RECEIVER.  I own one which was bought in the late 70's and which just recently started to pop and buzz and recently some loud screeches and on some occasions the sound from the right or left side would fade in and out randomly. 
   
  Any ideas on what may be going on?  If this is due to age is there anyone who works on these vintage receivers yet?
   
  On your Jan. 2011 post you stated "Most of this vintage stuff has steel RCA jacks that need cleaning to remove oxidation and that annoying buzz," .   Are the jacks you are referring to where the speaker wires go into the clip like connections on the receiver?  If so how does one go about cleaning these?
   
  Thank you for any thoughts or assistance on this problem.
   
  rgoodearth@yahoo.com


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Honestly I am not sure with those numbers that I would mess with it.  It can be VERY difficult to get old trip pots to adjust precisely.  You might not be able to get the numbers to be better, and you might make it worse.  Just FWIW.


 
  I thought that might be the case. I did find the manual last night, and process is rather simple. I doubt I'll do now. It was nice to see all the specs on the unit too.


----------



## BmWr75

Screeching sounds can be a transistor going bad if I recall correctly.
  
  Quote: 





rgoodearth said:


> I just read your email on the JVC JR301 INTEGRATED RECEIVER.  I own one which was bought in the late 70's and which just recently started to pop and buzz and recently some loud screeches and on some occasions the sound from the right or left side would fade in and out randomly.
> 
> Any ideas on what may be going on?  If this is due to age is there anyone who works on these vintage receivers yet?
> 
> ...


----------



## OldSkool

What a wealth of info here!
   
  OK, I have the HE-500, LCD-2, T1, (and perhaps the HD700) on my shortlist.
   
  After spending several hours skimming this vintage receiver thread, it appears that a vintage 22xx Marantz works well with the HE5, HE-500, and HE6, while a vintage Pioneer sx-XXX might have better synergy with the LCD-2. Am I understanding this correctly?


----------



## Skylab

Well I absolutely LOVE the HE-6 with the Marantz 2285.  Great synergy.


----------



## OldSkool

Thanks for the comment. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  FWIW, I snagged a nice 2226B off ebay last night and I'm hoping it might make a HE-500 sing. I'm also curious how it might sound with a T1. Any thoughts?


----------



## Skylab

When I had the T1, I thought it also was excellent with the Marantz.


----------



## OldSkool

I was hoping you might say that!
   
  With 26 old-skool watts on tap, I should be able to drive either the T1 or HE-500 from the 2226B's headphone jack, right? No speaker taps necessary?


----------



## Skylab

The T1, for sure, the headphone out will be ideal.  The HE-6, probably not.  The Marantz will have a dropping resistor in the headphone jack, and 26 watts is into 8 ohms, not the 50 ohms of the HE-6.  Try it and see, but you may need the speaker taps for the HE-6.  I use the headphone out for my HE-6, but my Marantz 2285 is 85 wpc, and so it is still several watts via the headphone out, into 50 ohms. But again, try it and see!


----------



## OldSkool

Thank you, Sir.
   
  This is the video that pushed me over the edge into MarantzVille...and I don't even speak spanish. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFzvR30Y3rE&feature=related


----------



## trentino

I got a Marantz 2225 the other day, in a package deal together with a Marantz 5020 cassette deck and a LP player from Marantz also. The receiver and the cassette deck was in such excellent condition that I was amazed. They had been sitting in a rack for 35 years, but after som dusting they are as good as new. Right now the 2225 is playing Tool - Lateralus into my Denon hp's, and the bass is killing me 
   

   
  A week ago a bought a Marantz 2270 in need of repairs. Still waiting for the return of the 2270 but now that I have the 2225 I feel I really don't need it. Could maybe be useful if I get a pair of orthos in the future. I've read in this thread that the muscles of the more powerful receivers are good with the orthos like the ones from Hifiman.


----------



## Maverickmonk

That's a minty looking 2225 you've got there, really purdy too! if you plan on holding onto her, consider getting her recapped. The sound difference between old and new caps is truly black and white. and I don't mean "audiophile night and day", I mean a tin eared teenager like myself let out several joyous obsenities at the difference.
   
  Pics of the cassette and turntable? I love marantz gear


----------



## Taowolf51

How much does a good recapping cost usually? I may be looking at recapping my Optonica (not sure whether I want to include the 2 15,000 caps or not, they're probably pricey, haha).


----------



## Rawrbington

If you can someone to do it locally probably 150$ give or take. If u have to ship it you can add at least another 100$ to that.
I'm considering getting my 2245 recapped and cleaned thoroughly. Got a guy an hours drive that does vintage audio repair. He might cost me 175$. 
Then locally I have some friends that own a musician equipment repair shop. Theyl probably charge me 40 to 60 plus parts. That's if they want to do it.

I'd just have a good talk with whoever it is and make sure they understand what it is they are working on. Your baby that's why you are spending good money having her rejuvenated.


----------



## trentino

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> That's a minty looking 2225 you've got there, really purdy too! if you plan on holding onto her, consider getting her recapped. The sound difference between old and new caps is truly black and white. and I don't mean "audiophile night and day", I mean a tin eared teenager like myself let out several joyous obsenities at the difference.
> 
> Pics of the cassette and turntable? I love marantz gear


 
   
  The 5020 really lights up very nice! I'm gonna keep it just to look at


----------



## wotts

If you have the time, I think the DIY route is toltally worth it. I intend to do my 2265B this summer. I doubt anything is wrong at this time, but I'll feel better knowing its done. I plan to to my speakers at the same time. Else, like Rawrbington said, look for the local guys. I've found a few folks capable in my area.

  
  Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> How much does a good recapping cost usually? I may be looking at recapping my Optonica (not sure whether I want to include the 2 15,000 caps or not, they're probably pricey, haha).


----------



## mrarroyo

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I checked mine and found it to be 9mV on the left and 20mV on the right. Going to look up the service manual for the 2265B now. I'd like to see if I can dial it further down.


 


   


  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> You are worried over nothing.  Be happy your receivers measure so good.


 


   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Honestly I am not sure with those numbers that I would mess with it.  It can be VERY difficult to get old trip pots to adjust precisely.  You might not be able to get the numbers to be better, and you might make it worse.  Just FWIW.
> 
> Amen!


 


   


  Quote: 





wotts said:


> I thought that might be the case. I did find the manual last night, and process is rather simple. I doubt I'll do now. It was nice to see all the specs on the unit too.


 


  I copied the following from another site, hope it helps.
   
   

  If you read:

*0 - 15mV:* Damn good!! If you read '0V', you may have a capacitor output, or your meter is set wrong

*16mV - 50mV:* An _acceptable_ value, especially at the lower end of this range. 2nd harmonic distortion is probably twice to four times what manufacturer's spec calls for at higher frequencies. Probably not audible, as the distortion is mostly in the upper octaves. At the upper end of this range I begin to raise an eyebrow. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

*50 - 85mV:* Something is certainly amiss, and while this is not enough to put your speakers or equipment in jeopardy, the amp is running nowhere near where it should. I'd venture to guess that most of the DC-coupled amps that are in use by forum members here fall into this range.

*100mV to ?:* A high enough voltage will cause the DC protection to kick in. This happens at a level determined by the designer, but is usually equivalent to about a diode drop (600mV)or so. Needless to say, if you are listening to an amp with 100mV or more of DC offset, you have no idea what the amp really is supposed to sound like. Indeed, some amps without a differential input are actually *designed* to have a bit of DC at the outputs, but this is triple-rare, and I don't think anyone here owns one. (in my book it's piss-poor design, but if you can sell it WTH..)


----------



## Skylab

Regarding recapping, it depends heavily on the receiver. And yes, if you include the main filter caps, the expense goes up a LOT.

I am having my SX-1280 recapped right now, and the parts cost alone is about $250, but it is a BIG powerful receiver AND that includes about $150 for the four main filter caps.


----------



## wuwhere

Recapping can easily cost more than the old receiver itself, specially if you use audiophile grade capacitors. I replaced the 3 old filter caps on my amp, 2 - Mallory 800MFD, $25 each, 1 - 150MFD, $15, plus shipping. I did it myself.
   
  I also recapped my other little tube amp, the caps cost me $150 + ship, did it myself also.


----------



## jeckyll

Why-oh-why did I start looking at this thread?! 
   
  I don't _want_ to buy more gear.... but now I've found a Yamaha A-760 and a Sansui AU-D7 locally (same price).  Any thought on which would be preferred when used as a headphone amp?


----------



## wualta

The only thing I saw that could create a problem for a headphone listener was the strange "taper" or "law" of the Sansui's volume control, as described in the review in _Gramophone_.


----------



## jeckyll

Thanks for the link to the review 
  
  Quote: 





wualta said:


> The only thing I saw that could create a problem for a headphone listener was the strange "taper" or "law" of the Sansui's volume control, as described in the review in _Gramophone_.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Regarding recapping, it depends heavily on the receiver. And yes, if you include the main filter caps, the expense goes up a LOT.
> I am having my SX-1280 recapped right now, and the parts cost alone is about $250, but it is a BIG powerful receiver AND that includes about $150 for the four main filter caps.


 


  What brand of caps are you having put into your unit?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Regarding recapping, it depends heavily on the receiver. And yes, if you include the main filter caps, the expense goes up a LOT.
> I am having my SX-1280 recapped right now, and the parts cost alone is about $250, but it is a BIG powerful receiver AND that includes about $150 for the four main filter caps.


 


  Hey Rob is Mark the Fixer doing the recap for you? I also thought that the 1280 was rebuilt when you purchased it.


----------



## Skylab

My 1980 was rebuilt when I bought it, Frank, but not the 1280. I bought the 1280 for $450, which is cheap even for stock 1280's. 

Also, MarkTheFixer is quite ill, sadly, and has been in the hospital for weeks, and is likely to remain there for quite some time. So I am using another AKer for the recap.

As for what brand caps, it's a mix, but not using silly-priced "audiophile" brand caps like auricaps or anything like that. It will be very good quality film type caps.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My 1980 was rebuilt when I bought it, Frank, but not the 1280. I bought the 1280 for $450, which is cheap even for stock 1280's.
> Also, MarkTheFixer is quite ill, sadly, and has been in the hospital for weeks, and is likely to remain there for quite some time. So I am using another AKer for the recap.
> As for what brand caps, it's a mix, but not using silly-priced "audiophile" brand caps like auricaps or anything like that. It will be very good quality film type caps.


 


  Thanks, I want to have my Sansui AU 505 redone but I don't want to make a mistake by not knowing if I'm going for the right caps when there might be something everyone agree upon.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My 1980 was rebuilt when I bought it, Frank, but not the 1280. I bought the 1280 for $450, which is cheap even for stock 1280's.
> Also, MarkTheFixer is quite ill, sadly, and has been in the hospital for weeks, and is likely to remain there for quite some time. So I am using another AKer for the recap.
> As for what brand caps, it's a mix, but not using silly-priced "audiophile" brand caps like auricaps or anything like that. It will be very good quality film type caps.


 


  Sorry to hear that about Mark. Anyway Good luck on the recap/


----------



## Skylab

frank i said:


> Sorry to hear that about Mark. Anyway Good luck on the recap/




Thanks, my friend. Looking forward to getting it back.

Yeah, I hope MTF gets better, but I get the feeling his situation is not good.


----------



## rgoodearth

BmWr75, thanks for your input.  Do you have any ideas on where one can get the receiver this age checked and the transistor replaced if necessary?
   
   

 BmWr75 





  
 offline
 
 431 Posts. Joined 6/2008
 

  Screeching sounds can be a transistor going bad if I recall correctly.
  
  Quote: Originally Posted by *rgoodearth* 




  I just read your email on the JVC JR301 INTEGRATED RECEIVER.  I own one which was bought in the late 70's and which just recently started to pop and buzz and recently some loud screeches and on some occasions the sound from the right or left side would fade in and out randomly. 
   
  Any ideas on what may be going on?  If this is due to age is there anyone who works on these vintage receivers yet?
   
  On your Jan. 2011 post you stated "Most of this vintage stuff has steel RCA jacks that need cleaning to remove oxidation and that annoying buzz," .   Are the jacks you are referring to where the speaker wires go into the clip like connections on the receiver?  If so how does one go about cleaning these?
   
  Thank you for any thoughts or assistance on this problem.
   
  rgoodearth@yahoo.com


----------



## BmWr75

Shipping these heavy receivers is expensive and risky if packed poorly.  Best bet is to get it worked on locally if possible.  If you let us know where you live, someone might be able to recommend a repair person.


----------



## jeckyll

Hmm I'm supposed to go look at an SX-680 tonight that _looks_ like it's in decent shape.
   

 Wish me luck


----------



## Coolzo

Speaking of the oh-so-sexy Pioneer SX series... _
  (SX-780)



   
  I know, pics are a tad blurry (the bottom one is on purpose though). Still working on my camera (lack of) skills...


----------



## Rawrbington

man the headphone jack on the 2245 is good.
   
  it just sounds right.  where as just about every other hp jack on a receiver sounded like it was making a concession in one place or another.  the 2245 just sounds like it is a headphone amp.


----------



## 5aces

rgoodearth said:


> On your Jan. 2011 post you stated "Most of this vintage stuff has steel RCA jacks that need cleaning to remove oxidation and that annoying buzz," .   Are the jacks you are referring to where the speaker wires go into the clip like connections on the receiver?  If so how does one go about cleaning these




Perhaps you are referring to this post :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/3270#post_7912989

I did not mean the speaker spring clips have to be cleaned.
The round input and output RCA cable connections may be steel and should be cleaned if corroded.
This *does not apply* if the RCA jacks are *plated*.


Here is an informative Head-Fi thread regarding this:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/145840/how-to-clean-rca-jacks-power-jacks-etc-conductivity-enhancers

In a pinch you could use lighter fluid and a scotch brite pad - an old trucker trick to get a faulty CB microphone going on the road (mask off your jacks,we used matchbook strikepads on the mic contacts).
Got some dough? get the Gold kit,lasts a long time:
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2299/.f?sc=2&category=20


----------



## punkaroo

I had my HK 730 beautifully restored by a professional.
   
  It makes my Grado HF-2s sing sweet music to me! It's unbelievably good!
   
  I'll be posting a review soon


----------



## OldSkool

Mostly good news today. My new (to me) Marantz 2226B arrived from the ebay seller. Unit was well packed, no physical damage. Whew! Plugged the old girl in and was rewarded with a GREAT sounding vintage receiver! My recabled K702's have never sounded better! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now the bad news. Upon arrival, about half of the blue dial lamps weren't working, as well as the signal strength dial. It was probably jarred during transit, it happens. I'm actually not too concerned about the bulbs as I had planned (at some point) to send this unit off for a recap and some of those sexy blue LEDs.
   
  However, what does concern me is an intermittent  "crackling" noise in the left channel only. Although the seller said all switches/pots were cleaned, I assumed I still had a dirty switch somewhere, but the noise disappears when I press the mono button. Hmmm?
   
  Any ideas?


----------



## Rawrbington

congrats man!  im really like those old marantz
  about the noise, i think you're correct.
  try cleaning the mono switch and might as well clean all of them.  and could probably do the lights at the same time.
  im having similar issues with my 2245.
  gonna take the face off sometime and clean all the pots and switches thoroughly.  mines in both channels and i haven't narrowed it do to a specific switch or pot.  hell could be dying electrolytic caps.
   
  the headphone jack is incredibly good isn't it?
  so much better than the jacks on my other receivers


----------



## wotts

I've been listening to my 2265B almost exclusivley the past few weeks. It drives the ATH-W3000ANV and ATH -W1000X beautifully. If I hadn't bought the HPM-100s to go with it, I'd have the Marantz in my main rig rather than in the bedroom. Maybe I should find another one...


----------



## Skylab

Sounds like that mono switch needs a good thorough zapping with deoxit. 

The meter and dial lamps of a Marantz are "fuse style" and can be replaced without soldering. It requires a little patience as the working spaces tight, but it's not at all hard to do. Get some LED type replacements and you can have it looking good in no time, and you can spray a bunch of deoxit in there while you have it open


----------



## BmWr75

Yep.....fuse style LEDs are the way to go.  Got some off eBay at Skylab's recommendation.  Plug and Play!!  I replaced the lamps in a Marantz 5420 cassette deck with these.  They look real nice.
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/5420.html
   
  Got enough to do my Marantz 2500 too.


----------



## Rawrbington

did you get yours off ebay, if so which ones?  or somewhere else?


----------



## Skylab

These are the ones I bought. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250966474271

The key to these is that they are blue LEDs, which eliminated the need to replace the vellum paper, which is a massive project.


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## OldSkool

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> the headphone jack is incredibly good isn't it?
> so much better than the jacks on my other receivers


 
  Yes, the SQ is outstanding from the headphone jack! I was very surprised at how good it sounds. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This Marantz definitely sounds a little more forward than my Kenwood KR-4070, which sounded a bit darker and "laid back".


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## BmWr75

Here's a picture of the blue LEDs installed in the cassette deck.


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## Skylab

Very nice, Scott!


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## OldSkool

I guess I need to explain more about the "crackling" sound I'm hearing in this 2226B.
   
  I'm using my ipod as source (LOD to RCA's) to AUX input. I don't hear the noise when pushing buttons or knobs as you might with noisy pots.  It's more like radio static that I can hear during quiet passages in the music. Pressing the mono button seems to eliminate the noise. Why is that? I don't have any sort of antenna hooked up. Could I be hearing radio "static" thru the AUX IN?
   
  If I pause the ipod, you can clearly hear the crackling (static?), which gets louder by increasing the volume. BTW, I only hear the noise in the left channel.
   
  I switched the RCA cables around, to see if the noise switches to the right channel. Stays in left. Plugged RCA's into Tape IN. Same deal, noise only in left channel.
   
  OK, will take Skylab's advice and clean switches with Deoxit. If that doesn't do the trick, time to think about sending it off to a repair shop...or, listen to it in mono. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Thanks for reading, guys.


----------



## Rawrbington

i have a pioneer sx 650 thats on loan to a buddy that has an issue where you can hear the other inputs very faintly through other input channels.
  so if your playing a cd through the aux and a record through the phono, and you have the input set to phono, if there is a quiet spot in the song you can faintly hear the cd playing lol.
  no idea what causes that though


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## KG Jag

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i have a pioneer sx 650 thats on loan to a buddy that has an issue where you can hear the other inputs very faintly through other input channels.
> so if your playing a cd through the aux and a record through the phono, and you have the input set to phono, if there is a quiet spot in the song you can faintly hear the cd playing lol.
> no idea what causes that though


 

 I seem to recall that exact thing happening to a number of 1970's vintage receivers.  I don't recall whether or not all/most were Pioneers.


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## wotts

Most liekly that is the input selector not completely stopping the voltage from one input to the next and passing a small amout from one input to the next along to the amplification stage.

  
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i have a pioneer sx 650 thats on loan to a buddy that has an issue where you can hear the other inputs very faintly through other input channels.
> so if your playing a cd through the aux and a record through the phono, and you have the input set to phono, if there is a quiet spot in the song you can faintly hear the cd playing lol.
> no idea what causes that though


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## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i have a pioneer sx 650 thats on loan to a buddy that has an issue where you can hear the other inputs very faintly through other input channels.
> so if your playing a cd through the aux and a record through the phono, and you have the input set to phono, if there is a quiet spot in the song you can faintly hear the cd playing lol.
> no idea what causes that though


 

 Common issue solved by only playing one source at a time.


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## OldSkool

Stupid question(s) of the day...
   
  If the volume knob pot was dirty, wouldn't you hear noise in both channels? Also, wouldn't you hear noise only when twisting the knob?


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## MohawkUS

After 2 weeks worth of waiting I finally got in a cable that allowed me to hook my PC up the my receiver. It was meant as a temporary solution while I try and sell my Burson so that I can get a real DAC. A few hours after I hooked it up I lost the left channel. I was hoping someone here might be able to help me figure out what happened, and what I could do to fix it.

 The problem lies before the amp stage as when I put it in mono it plays equally in both channels with some static from the left. In stereo content meant for the left channel just plays as quiet distortion and it does this for all sources including my turntable and the built in tuner. I've also tried the headphone jack in the front as well as running my STAX from the speaker terminals, no dice. The receiver in question is a 1974 Sherwood s-7210a . From what I've read on this receiver it's a bit rare to find one still working today and like what's happened here they usually only last a few months before something goes wrong.

. As I only payed $40 for it I had been planning to replace it eventually, but that changed a few weeks ago when I hooked up an old CD player. I found out that the static problems i had previously been having were my turntable's muting circuit and the receiver is dead quiet. Playing a few CDs I found that it literally put the drums and singers in my black metal in the room for me. I was quite impressed with the sound it was able to put out, considering the music I was playing was recorded on an 8-track and as black metal is, with poor production quality.

 Does anyone here know anyone who would be able to fix the receiver for me? Most of the sites that specialize in vintage audio refuse to work with Sherwood products mainly because they are not as well known as brands such as Marantz and Pioneer. Again, this is the only peice of vintage gear I've gotten my hands on for the price of fixing it up would I just be better off buying one of the many vintage receivers/integrated amps offline? I'm guessing it would cost around $150 to get it repaired and re-capped as the only work it's seen is a replacement of the bulb for the tuner. I'm just not sure how easy it would be to find another amp with this kind of sound to it.

And before I forget, here is a picture of it, the CD player is gone now. The reciever was getting a bit toasty with it up there, I was only running it an hour at a time because of this. I'd really like to hope I didn't kill it by blocking off the air vents like that. 



Update: I just tried it again and it seems to be working again now. I tried this earlier and it didn't work, but I pushed all of the different front button a few times to see if one of them was causing it. It would appear that it's the tape monitor button at fault here. It's still a bit glitchy though, I just lost the right channel for a few seconds. Would a simple cleaning clear this up? When I bought it a few months back the seller said he went over everything with deoxit, I'm planning on hooking up a cassette deck this week actually, so disabling the circuit isn't really a good solution for me.


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## Skylab

Guys, one thing should be clear from this thread, I hope...if you are not willing to buy a can of deoxit, and open up your vintage gear and spray the switches and controls, your vintage audio experience will be frustrating. Thoroughly cleaning old controls is a must. Most of the issues listed on this single page of this thread are almost certainly due to dirty pots/switches. 

You have to get in there with contact cleaner AND, while you spray, work the control or switch, and keep doing so a few dozen times. You will be surprised how many problems this will solve.


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## BmWr75

What Skylab said!!
   
  I restored a Leak Stereo 20 tube amp today that gets its AC power from a Leak Point One Stereo preamp.  This means I have to use the unrestored preamp to test the restored amp.  I had all kinds of static and cut-out problems with the amp output until I cleaned all the pots and switches with Deoxit on the preamp.
   
  Waiting on the capacitors to come in for the preamp to restore it too.


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## ardgedee

bmwr75 said:


> Common issue solved by only playing one source at a time.



That's harder to do when one of the sources that's bleeding is the FM.


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## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Guys, one thing should be clear from this thread, I hope...if you are not willing to buy a can of deoxit, and open up your vintage gear and spray the switches and controls, your vintage audio experience will be frustrating. Thoroughly cleaning old controls is a must. Most of the issues listed on this single page of this thread are almost certainly due to dirty pots/switches.
> You have to get in there with contact cleaner AND, while you spray, work the control or switch, and keep doing so a few dozen times. You will be surprised how many problems this will solve.


 


  My favorite part of vintage gear is opening it up and detail cleaning every inch inside and out.    I can spend doing one piece of gear.


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## BmWr75

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> That's harder to do when one of the sources that's bleeding is the FM.


 


  Not if you disconnect the FM antenna.


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## Rawrbington

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> My favorite part of vintage gear is opening it up and detail cleaning every inch inside and out.    I can spend doing one piece of gear.


 

  
  what do you do to clean off your dusty dirty boards and caps/transistors?  air duster doesn't get it done for me.


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## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what do you do to clean off your dusty dirty boards and caps/transistors?  air duster doesn't get it done for me.


 


  First I air blast it best I can then I use this  http://www.superior-industries.com/electra_xl_product_261.html  But I did not buy it, a friend of mine sent me a can.    Sometimes I spray a small area and then use Q-tips to clean around the boards.   It' the only thing I've tried so I don't know any other methods.  Maybe someone else can chime in about cleaning the insides of gear.


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## Skylab

Well, having gotten the backup sump pump installed and operating, I felt confident doing the very last step on my basement system, which was to replace the old TV stand (which had been damaged by flood water 2 years ago) with my "new TV stand"...which is actually my "back-up" pair of HPM-100's. I had in mind to do this for a while, but wanted the disaster-proof flood control system finished first. I like the way it has come out.






















The HPM-100's are connected to the SX-1980 as the B speakers, and work fine in that configuration for TV sound, given that the placement is clearly not good for music. The Infinity Kappa 6's are for music listening in that system. Fun!


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## manveru

Quote:  

 Awesome. When can I be moving in?


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## Rawrbington

wow Skylab!
  whats that audio tower made of?  titanium?  cast iron?  how does it support all that weight!
   
  also which model pioneer TT is that?


----------



## Skylab

Can't recall the maker of the stand, had it 15 years at least. It is solid steel though 

The TT is a PL-530, with a custom real-wood veneer base


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## BmWr75

very nice Rob!!
   
  I'm using E-V Fours as speaker stands for my D-10s.


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## Skylab

Ha! Nice. I bet those make very nice looking stands. I was very pleased with how the HPM-100's work in that configuration. I dreamed it up but sometimes those ideas are less successful than others


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## Rawrbington

i like that tv a lot skylab.
  almost as much as i liked watching my thunder dominate this afternoon


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## Skylab

Yeah without DRose or Rip no way were we going to win that game.


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## Rawrbington

im waiting to see what happens next game when thunder go to miami.  if we win that, i'll start to believe we could possibly make it to the NBA finals.  even though we smashed miami at home last week, it was one of those games where the heat didn't look interested.
   
  really really hope the Bulls come out of the East though.  im one of those Heat haters.


----------



## Meewoo

Skylab, I will ship you a TV stand, could you ship the speakers to me?
   
  That's just wonderful set up!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Do you prefer Kappa to HPM? What's the difference between them?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> im waiting to see what happens next game when thunder go to miami.  if we win that, i'll start to believe we could possibly make it to the NBA finals.  even though we smashed miami at home last week, it was one of those games where the heat didn't look interested.
> 
> really really hope the Bulls come out of the East though.  im one of those Heat haters.


 


  Thunder is the real deal this year.  Next year Heat gets Steve Nash then it will be their time.  
   
  Just to keep this thread honest and on vintage topic I watch all the NBA games using my Marantz 2215B and BOSE 301's for audio.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Meewoo. The Kappas and the HPM-100 are very different. I use the HPM-100 for music listening in one of my systems, with my recapped SX-1980, and I love them. It's a very robust and vibrant sound.

The Kappas are a little more "hi-Fi" sounding if you know what I mean. Sometimes I like that better, and they are a little more delicate and nuanced. But for some music, especially a lot of rock,I like the HPM-100 better. Both are really fun speakers to listen to, and considering what I paid for each (about $400/pair), they are both amazing! If you asked me a couple years ago if I would listen to speakrs that cost me "only" $400, I would have said no way  Now that is mostly what I do!


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## Rawrbington

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> Thunder is the real deal this year.  Next year Heat gets Steve Nash then it will be their time.
> 
> Just to keep this thread honest and on vintage topic I watch all the NBA games using my Marantz 2215B and BOSE 301's for audio.


 


  sorry, i have a tendency to get off topic sometimes.
  speaking of the 2215, hows the HP jack on it?
  i just spent a good 30 min with my 2245 cleaning the pots and switches.  after hearing numerous people online and irl tell me they thing 1 of my issues is still a dirty pot/switch.
   
  i found a good way to get the stuck knobs off the marantz.
   
  i used this strap that goes on the case for my digital camera.  worked it in behind the knob, got it centered and pulled.  they all popped right off.
   
  now just waiting for her to dry and then hopefully that will do it.  think i had narrowed it down finally to the loudness switch.
   
  think i could use that Mr Clean magic eraser on a few trouble spots on the face of the marantz?
  i will try to use it to spot clean as not to hurt the silk screening


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks Meewoo. The Kappas and the HPM-100 are very different. I use the HPM-100 for music listening in one of my systems, with my recapped SX-1980, and I love them. It's a very robust and vibrant sound.
> The Kappas are a little more "hi-Fi" sounding if you know what I mean. Sometimes I like that better, and they are a little more delicate and nuanced. But for some music, especially a lot of rock,I like the HPM-100 better. Both are really fun speakers to listen to, and considering what I paid for each (about $400/pair), they are both amazing! If you asked me a couple years ago if I would listen to speakrs that cost me "only" $400, I would have said no way
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for your input! 
   
  I totally agree that Pionny pairing with HPM are very good match for rock.(although I never heard legendary JBL.)


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## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Can't recall the maker of the stand, had it 15 years at least. It is solid steel though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Your room is impressive! Your rack would even be safe out in Cali while you sit through a Lakers game. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, that's a tough lookin' rack!


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> man the headphone jack on the 2245 is good.
> 
> it just sounds right.  where as just about every other hp jack on a receiver sounded like it was making a concession in one place or another.  the 2245 just sounds like it is a headphone amp.


 


  The Abraxasaudio guy has some reworked tone control boards for these apparently they are a weak link. Sometimes up on ebay , also contact him through his site ( I'm not affiliated at all ) He used to be a marantz lead tech or something.
   
  I had thought that Deoxit wasn't a good idea to be using on pots, but a zero residue contact cleaner followed by the switch lube spray that has the slight , well , lube in it.  I only used deoxit ever on switches and contacts. This being due to deoxit helping out with electrical signal transfer, slopping it inside all the pots with close quarters switchings wouldn't be that good would it?
   I could be wrong.


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## BmWr75

Quote: 





nick n said:


> I had thought that Deoxit wasn't a good idea to be using on pots, but a zero residue contact cleaner followed by the switch lube spray that has the slight , well , lube in it.  I only used deoxit ever on switches and contacts. This being due to deoxit helping out with electrical signal transfer, slopping it inside all the pots with close quarters switchings wouldn't be that good would it?
> * I could be wrong.*


 


*And you are*.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Caig (the maker of Deoxit) also makes Faderlube to follow up a Deoxit application.


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## rgoodearth

BmWr75 




  
 offline
 
 442 Posts. Joined 6/2008
 

   Shipping these heavy receivers is expensive and risky if packed poorly.  Best bet is to get it worked on locally if possible.  If you let us know where you live, someone might be able to recommend a repair person.

   
  Thanks for your prompt reply. 
   
  I live in Fargo, North Dakota. 58102
   
  rgoodearth


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





> Shipping these heavy receivers is expensive and risky if packed poorly.  Best bet is to get it worked on locally if possible.  If you let us know where you live, someone might be able to recommend a repair person.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your prompt reply.
> ...


 
   
  This inquiry would get a lot more traffic if you posted in on AudioKarma.org in the Vintage Solid State forum.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13
   
  Fargo is pretty remote, but you never know, there might be an AKer around those parts that can help you out.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> *And you are*.


 

 But as the smiley implies, in a nice, affable, entertaining way!  BmWr is correct. If you're going for ten-tenths, blast off crud with DeoxIT and follow up with one of the Fader-series chemicals (they've changed the name again-- first it was Cailube, then Faderlube, now just Fader-Fsomething, but there is Fader Grease for those hard-to-hold flyaway hair situations the audio professional so often encounters). For more casual uses with less of a crud-challenge, try one of the Gold series. But don't slop it, whatever you do. The stuff's just too expensive to waste.


----------



## Rawrbington

well the Deoxit shower i gave my 2245 last night helped a lot.  i had attempted to do this before but wasn't as determined. 
   
  even with the top, bottom and face off its still tough to get to the switches and pots.  but idk, i guess my aim wasn't too far off.
  since then its only given me the scratchy cutting in and out (both channels) twice and for a very short period of time, and both times within the first couple minutes of power up.  will probably give it one more thorough deoxit shower in a day or two, and then spray those switches and pots the with Gold Deoxit.  hopefully keeping them clean going forward
   
  the phono section is still not working but i think thats either a bad solder joint or a dead/dying transistor on the phono board.
  a buddy of mine and i are thinking about buying a parts unit and just going after it.  with nothing to lose and spliting the cost we figure we can at least learn a lot


----------



## Taowolf51

Deoxit almost seems like a miracle cure, is it really just spray and forget? Does anyone know how it works?
   
  I may get a bottle and work on the inputs and outputs, then if I'm feeling brave I may go at the interior (though it's clean as it is).


----------



## Rawrbington

its just a chemical cleaner for metal contact surfaces.  think its mostly butane or alcohol or something similar.
   
  the tricky part is actually getting a little bit of it INSIDE the actual switch or pot.  when i use it im pretty sure 90% of the deoxit is just wasted and never makes it in the pot or switch.  but its that tiny bit that actually makes it inside that does the work. i guess it just helps break up decades of oxidation and dust dirt and grime.  so the working back and forth is key.
  spray it in and then twist the pot around to and fro about 30 times.
  same with switches.
   
  oh and don't spray it in your eye.  which i did last night lol.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> its just a chemical cleaner for metal contact surfaces.  think its mostly butane or alcohol or something similar.
> 
> the tricky part is actually getting a little bit of it INSIDE the actual switch or pot.  when i use it im pretty sure 90% of the deoxit is just wasted and never makes it in the pot or switch.  but its that tiny bit that actually makes it inside that does the work. i guess it just helps break up decades of oxidation and dust dirt and grime.  so the working back and forth is key.
> spray it in and then twist the pot around to and fro about 30 times.
> ...


 

  Owwww!!!
   
  I really don't have any crackle/noise to my pots, but I did notice the balance pot doesn't sit quite at straight up when it hits the detent. For those of you that have ad the Marantz 22XXs apart, does it seem like that is adjustable?


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## rgoodearth

BmWr75 





  
 offline
 
 443 Posts. Joined 6/2008
 

   Yep.....fuse style LEDs are the way to go.  Got some off eBay at Skylab's recommendation.  Plug and Play!!  I replaced the lamps in a Marantz 5420 cassette deck with these.  They look real nice.
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/5420.html
   
  Got enough to do my Marantz 2500 too.
   
   
   
     
     •    Skylab
     •    Reviewerus Prolificus
     •    
     •    
     •    offline
     •    19,374 Posts. Joined 4/2005
     •    Location: Chicagoland
 Sounds like that mono switch needs a good thorough zapping with deoxit.

 The meter and dial lamps of a Marantz are "fuse style" and can be replaced without soldering. It requires a little patience as the working spaces tight, but it's not at all hard to do. Get some LED type replacements and you can have it looking good in no time, and you can spray a bunch of deoxit in there while you have it open
  
 Pics: Decware Glowin'; Leben Lovin'; Fisher Classic; Tons 'o Tubes; The Big Rig; Aud-Easy; AT ANV;  Lots o' Cans; Vintage Lovely #1, #2, #3

 Feedback
  
   
   
   
   
   
  rgoodearth  to Skylab & BmWr75
   
   
  Would these fuse style LEDs work for  McIntosh  meters also?  Is the installation process for the McIntosh a bigger problem or can it be done by a layperson?

   
  Thanks again for you input.
   
  rgoodearth


----------



## BmWr75

I have no idea what kind of lamps Mcintosh equipment uses.  Sorry.


----------



## MaDOS

Hello vintage receiver people!
   
  I picked up my first old receiver, a Yamaha r-300, yesterday.  I got it locally and tested it out and everything was just peachy before buying it. 
   
  The problem is that after several hours of listening yesterday, suddenly the left audio channel in the headphone out has cut out and hardly produces any sound whatsoever.
   
  So my question to you vintage receiver gurus is: what can I do to repair this?  Is it as simple as spraying some deoxit or could this be something that requires some actual work to fix?  Unfortunately I don't have easy access to a multimeter or soldering iron at the moment, but if it is necessary I'm sure I could find either.
   
  Any advice is appreciated.
  Thanks


----------



## manveru

Quote:  

 Try reading the last few pages of this thread.


----------



## MohawkUS

mados said:


> Hello vintage receiver people!
> 
> I picked up my first old receiver, a Yamaha r-300, yesterday.  I got it locally and tested it out and everything was just peachy before buying it.
> 
> ...




The same thing happened to me a few days ago, and I made a very long post about it which ended with me facepalming. To be brief: A temporary solution would be to try and dislodge the grime from the buttons by pushing them a few times; the stereo/mono and tape monitor buttons were the ones giving me grief. The long term solution is to clean the switches with deoxit.


----------



## MaDOS

Didn't read back far enough
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for the response.  I guess I'll play around with the buttons until I can get a hold of some deoxit or similar to do it right.


----------



## Meewoo

I am not technician and I haven't done any soldering and de-soldering jobs yet. But I could do deoxid-it job easily. Like Skylab saying, you need to open the receiver up and clean the pots.
   
  When I pulled out my stored G-8000, it has intermittent sound problem. I  deoxid-ited it recently, and I took some pictures. When I opened case up, I found I couldn't reach any pots due to tuner section at the upper front part.
   

   
  So I had to open the bottom parts and deoxid-ited pots. That couldn't solve the problem yet. It seemed the problem lies on some push buttons and switches in the middle of tuner and tone control pots. But the real problem is that I can't reach these little things from up or bottom without de-soldering some parts. So I decided go for face plate.
   

   
  I used the pipe and spay deoxid-it from the spare space of push buttons and switches. Moved them many times and put all thing together. I brought my G-8000 to life.
   
  Man, I really hate those big receiver with some buttons and switches in the middle like SX-1010 and G-8000. They take lot effort to have the deoxit job done. Integrated amps are easier to handle, sometimes you only need to open the upper case. The tuner part of receiver just put some difficulty to deoxid-it.


----------



## Lou Erickson

I've been enjoying the vintage receivers for a while, ever since Dad bought a Fisher stereo in about 1976.  His is still playing beautifully, and I've made sure he knows I want it when he's done with it.  (I'm actually hoping he keeps it a very, very long time.)  I don't have half the collections y'all do, but I enjoy what I have.
   
  I have a Marantz 2235B in the living room which drives our modest stereo there.  We listen to movies through it, FM radio, and play a Squeezebox Duet.  It does all those things very well.  I also think it's a beautiful piece of equipment.  (I have another, deadish 2235B in the garage.  One channel is utterly worthless.  Bought it on ebay first, and the seller didn't think it was worth shipping back.)  We've got a new set of Orb speakers with their little powered sub on it.  They sound good, and don't take up half the room.
   
  I also have a Marantz 2220 in my bedroom, with a Marantz 6300 TT on it (and a Marantz SE-1 electrostatic headphone).  It was not very reliable until I hit it with Deoxit (I really need to do the living room one) and has worked better since.  There's a Marantz cassette deck in the closet that's too short to stack right, waiting for me to get a rack of some sort.
   
  The Marantz 2220 drives a pair of Beyerdynamic 990DTs (not the 600ohm ones) beautifully.  I have a Headroom Millet Hybrid that also drives them well, but it's hard to say if it's better than the Marantz.  They're different.
   
  Some random notes:
   
  I asked the people at Orb how well these little speakers would work on the vintage equipment, and got back a glowing e-mail from the owner who loves the vintage stuff, and enthused about how great the Marantz sound would be with their little speakers.  I was surprised at the level of enthusiasm from someone selling to the home theatre market.  Since the Orb uses a powered sub, they works fine, and the sub fills in the gaps from the little round speakers.
   
   
  The Marantz SE-1/EE-1 electrostatics aren't thrilling.  They look closed, and padded but aren't, and are much less comfortable than you'd expect.  I'd suggest you find a nice vintage Stax set instead.  I've got a Stax SRD-7 energizer with a pair of SR-X Mark III earspeakers which sound glorious, despite being beat up and ugly.
   
  I've got plans to have my Marantzes professionally rebuilt.  (I'm in the very slow queue over at irebuildmarantz.)  I may do a light-swap on them before that happens, because they're lots less cool dark.
   
   A question:
   
  I've taken the plunge and ordered a set of AKG K-1000's.  Anyone know if the Marantz (particularly the 2220) will be able to drive those famously demanding headphones off the speaker out?


----------



## MaDOS

Just as a follow up on my situation, I was not able to get the sound back by fiddling around with and knobs or buttons.  I did however clean the pots (took something like 3 times before I got it fixed).  Now I can listen to my music again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
   
  Thanks for the advice everyone!


----------



## vid

Judging from the first 100 pages, this thread is mainly about TOTL receivers from the 70s, but I'll hazard a question that stems from the bottom of the 80s barrel.
   

   
  The Technics SU-300 (excuse cheap photo). Anyone had any auditory friendship with this model or the others from the SU line from the 80s?
   
  The SU-300 was apparently made in the mid/late 80s and seems to have been the BOTL model in the SU series of that time.
   
  For whatever reason, there's hardly any opinions online about this model, and not much more about the others in the 80s SU line. There's more info on the SA models (like the SA-300), and peoples' opinions on them seem starkly divided between "decent" and "crap". The SA line seems to have come about a decade prior to the SU line, though.
   
  I got the SU-300 as a cheap probe into the old amp territory for headphones. It seems to have a clear-ish sound, driving some 80s 600 ohm phones decently out of its phone out. I don't have any other old amps to compare to, though, so my opinion isn't worth much in that regard.


----------



## Meewoo

@vid,
   
  You can find some info http://vintagetechnics.co.uk/integrated.htm
   
  It seems a BPC. You can get better Technics' sound from other models.


----------



## vid

Thanks for the link, Mee. I've no doubt the SU-700, for instance, would have more power and so on just by looking at the list, but it would be cool to have some words based on experience with those models (this mainly relates to their performance with headphones).


----------



## Skylab

I think the odds of finding someone who can make such comments will be very small. I couldn't find a single post about that model even on AudioKarma.


----------



## Rawrbington

just acquired an HH Scott 200B.  WOW, its' modest 30 12 watts of tube power puts my pioneer 950 to shame.  not so much in loudness but in musicality.  all three speakers i have hooked up to it have simply sounded beautiful


----------



## Meewoo

Which three pairs of speakers are you pairing?
   
  I had a Realistic 40b. It sounds good but has distortion when driving my KEF Q-90 at reasonable loud volume.
   
  I noticed you are comparing SX-950, not your Marantz. How about Marantz V.S Tube?


----------



## Frank I

. I will be putting the Pioneer into service to run monitors and a sub and thanks to Rob for answering some questions for me today about speakers and sub with my SX650. Hopefully I will get this going very soonn


----------



## Skylab

Very nice amp the Scott 200B. Uses a slightly unusual output tube, the 6GW8, which is part triode and part sharp-cutoff pentode. I bet that sounds nice. What condition is it in? I agree with Meewoo, we need PICS!


----------



## vid

Thanks for looking, Sky. The SA models (receivers) get a fair amount of attention, so it's strange that the SUs don't. The SU-300 doesn't come across as a massively impressive amp, though, just decent.


----------



## Skylab

At the end of the say, since you already have it, the only thing that matters is how YOU think it sounds


----------



## Rawrbington

it probably sounds more musical than the 2245, if you like tubes.  the 2245 has a hair more details but is missing something that the scott brings.  hard to put my finger on it.


  








  


 played it out of ADS L700, Mission MX1 and some old Hafler monitors.  all sounded fantastic.  interestingly enough the Missions may have sounded the best while being significantly cheaper speakers than the other 2.  think the pair cost me 179$ USD delivered



Ok just got it hooked back up, which is a pain because of the speaker posts. Man it sounds good. Very detailed and life like. Might still have a bit of a dirty spot somewhere could still be getting some scratchy noise or could be tube saturation/clipping since these missions are really inefficient . I'm in love


----------



## Skylab

Awesome! Now you just need a nice case for it. Mapleshade makes a beautiful one but for some reason it's not on their website. I think it wasn't horribly expensive either. Here is what it looks like though :

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/ShowAdditionalImg.asp?number=SCOTTAMP


----------



## vid

Sky, it's certainly better than nothing, and the treble/bass controls fit the bill for an old pair of orthos that lack both. There's nothing like running a pair of working class 80s phones out of a working class 80s amp...


----------



## Rawrbington

my only complaint seems to be this things lack of power.  its really noticable now that i've got it cleaned and 98% sure its not the pots/switches. 


 i think the sound is tube sag/saturation/clipping, if im playing at a fairly high volume its good until the song starts to get loud or dynamic and then you hear the clipping first in the upper ranges with cymbals or high pitched guitars.


  


 the headphone jack sounds nice as well.  the manual states that it has a low impedance headphone out put for "popular low impedance headphones".  i like in the manual when it talks about HH Scotts state of the art technology... in 1961.


  


 so yeah i love the sound im getting.  just as long as i don't crank it too high, which i like to do from time to time. 


  


 overall can't complain.  it was free after all



Interesting. I put this little mixer in the path between my dac and the Scott. It somehow allows more volume before clipping. Kind of acting as a signal amp. Not sure if it sounds as smooth though.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> my only complaint seems to be this things lack of power.  its really noticable now that i've got it cleaned and 98% sure its not the pots/switches.
> i think the sound is tube sag/saturation/clipping, if im playing at a fairly high volume its good until the song starts to get loud or dynamic and then you hear the clipping first in the upper ranges with cymbals or high pitched guitars.


 
  The Scott looks very clean, congrats!
   
  Yes, lacking power is problem here.
   
  You may want to try some Klipsch Heresy or other higher sensitive models. Heresy is so sweet when it pairs with tube. Some people say Heresy lacks bass, but who cares bass when you listen to classics and Jazz. Mission is warm speakers, so they should match the tube very well. I do think ADS should match Yammy, they will give you the flat response.bv
   
  I do agree Marantz lacks some saturate and smoothness of tube, but Marantz is the most similar to the tube sound. Do you have a vintage HK (I remember you have one)?


----------



## Rawrbington

Nope no hk here. But I may trade this Scott plus some cash for an immaculate 60s tube hk this local collector has.mthink it's 30 watt per channel. 

I'd love a pair of heresy's but haven't found any locally. Did run across some forte II's but he wants way too much. And couldn't give them a listen in a good environment. Do you know anything about the forte II?
Think The clipping could possibly be in part because the rectifier tube is going bad?


----------



## Meewoo

I think speakers are problem even though rebuilding Scott can improve sound, especially the bass will be tighter. I have a friend built tube amp with 30 wpc, I can still hear distortion with my q-90 at reasonable high volume.
  I never heard Forte, but I have cornwall II, at lower volume, I prefer Heresy (both with tube). Is the HK you try to trade is Citation? Man, I missed a deal for Citation 1 for $100 (or it's just scam).


----------



## Rawrbington

Not a citation I don't think. It's one of the champagne pinkish colored ones. But it's nearly flawless condition. 
He also has a couple of fisher tube amps. And I know he's really big on hh Scott. He claims fisher and Scott were the pioneers of hi fidelity in the us back in the late 40s and 50s. Not sure if it's true but that's what he always says.

Trying to find a picture of the hk

Okmi think it's the hk a250


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Not a citation I don't think. It's one of the champagne pinkish colored ones. But it's nearly flawless condition.
> He also has a couple of fisher tube amps. And I know he's really big on hh Scott. He claims fisher and Scott were the pioneers of hi fidelity in the us back in the late 40s and 50s. Not sure if it's true but that's what he always says.
> Trying to find a picture of the hk
> Okmi think it's the hk a250


 


  Like this one? Vintage tube equipment tend to sound euphonic.


----------



## Rawrbington

I do believe that's it! What are your thoughts on its sound? How many watts is it?


----------



## wuwhere

No idea, I just googled it.
   
  It uses 4 6L6 output tubes, 2 per channel, I would guess about 35 to 40 wpc @ 8 Ohms.


----------



## Skylab

I agree vintage tube gear tends to sound VERY euphonic / warm / lush / "tubey". I know my Fisher KX-100 does, although I like it very much.


----------



## moodyrn

Nice amp, congrats. I love the vintage tube sound. It's different from most modern day tube amps. I also second the vintage klipsch recommendation. Especially the heritage lines. But you can always start off with something like the kg-4. Many people over at AK and the klipch forum prefers them to the heresy's because they have much more bass. They are much smaller as well and would work great in a small or even medium size room. And those things just love tubes. But it you wanted something higher up, you couldn't go wrong with any of the heritage line klipsch. Wish they still made them. I hate all currently produced klipschs.


----------



## Lou Erickson

A follow-up to my post last week; the AKG K1000's I bought arrived, and are hooked to the speaker out of my Marantz 2220.  I am perfectly pleased with them on the 2220.  I do have the SAC KH-1000 coming, so I'll be able to compare a purpose-built amp to the vintage gear, but I'm really pleased with the sound from the Marantz.
   
  Shame they were so expensive, but worth it so far.  I hope to listen to them a lot.


----------



## woody88

guys and gals, I could possibly score a Pioneer SX-1050 for around $250. if the units work just fine, is that a relatively good deal? thanks in advance.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> guys and gals, I could possibly score a Pioneer SX-1050 for around $250. if the units work just fine, is that a relatively good deal? thanks in advance.


 


  I believe that's a great deal if in good operating condition!


----------



## Skylab

Yup, if it's really in good shape, that's a great price on a very nice receiver.


----------



## woody88

Thanks claybum and skylab for the reply. I am debating whether or not to get it. I found out about the seller's full name on his email address, and upon the search the very first result of it, was a deal with him gone bad. Not from craigslist, but from a forum similar like ours but different hobby. That raised the flag for me big time. Plus the drive to the seller's place is an hour, so I have been back and forth with it. Thinking that I do not want to get scammed on. sigh.....I'll think more on this, knowing the price is good, is somewhat tempting though, although in my heart, I have a feeling, based on what I read on the bad deal with the seller previously, that this just doesn't feel quite right.......


----------



## Skylab

Ask him to have it hooked up so you can verify it works well before you pay.  That is one of the advantages of CL.  I always ask that.  If they refuse, then for sure you should pass.


----------



## The8thst

I am really tempted by this Soundesign TX 4372 for $40, but I really don't need it at all. I blame this thread for that.
http://images.craigslist.org/5La5Kf5M53M33Ne3Hbc3g80efa94143da1cd1.jpg[img]

On another note (sorry for the slight hijack) I would love to hear your guys' thoughts on [url=http://www.head-fi.org/t/604991/help-me-choose-some-cheap-vintage-floorstanding-speakers]this thread[/url] since you guys are active, and you really seem to know your vintage hifi stuff.

Carry on,
Thanks
Pete


----------



## KG Jag

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I agree vintage tube gear tends to sound VERY euphonic / warm / lush / "tubey". I know my Fisher KX-100 does, although I like it very much.


 

 Back in  the late '60's and '70's we called it a "fat" sound.  Some of us (in high school and college, etc.) preferred the leaner & cleaner sound of the then new solid state receivers and amps--at least in the price ranges we could afford or hope to afford in a few years.


----------



## DefQon

I have a vintage JVC J-S10 integrated amp, I am unsure what the power ratings for it is regards to how many amps and ohms per channel it can pump into speakers, what I do know is that it has a speaker at the back saying 180W, but I found a site saying its rated for 2x20W @ 8ohms. The sound? It puts all my tube amp's to shame when powering my LCD2's. It even makes my CD950 (bit picky and hard to drive) shine.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Nice amp, congrats. I love the vintage tube sound. It's different from most modern day tube amps. I also second the vintage klipsch recommendation. Especially the heritage lines. But you can always start off with something like the kg-4. Many people over at AK and the klipch forum prefers them to the heresy's because they have much more bass. They are much smaller as well and would work great in a small or even medium size room. And those things just love tubes. But it you wanted something higher up, you couldn't go wrong with any of the heritage line klipsch. Wish they still made them. I hate all currently produced klipschs.


 


  i actually just scored a pair of Forte II's
  holy crap i never knew 12 watts could sound that loud and that good


----------



## wualta

Tubes clips gently, with nice-sounding distortion. If you really want to be surprised, audition the old Antique Sound Labs' famous Wave8 cheapie monoblocs. Flea power, yet you can crank 'em and you KNOW they're clipping like crazy yet they still sound good. The power of tubes.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





vid said:


> Judging from the first 100 pages, this thread is mainly about TOTL receivers from the 70s, but I'll hazard a question that stems from the bottom of the 80s barrel.


 


  There have been quite a few posts about mid level Pioneer receivers from the 70s and early 80s.  There have also been posts on mid range Yamahas, although that might have been on the ortho thread.  A couple of people on the ortho thread have Yamaha CR-620s and like them.  That might even be the BOTL for that line up.  I've never seen a CR-420. I have seen a CR-440 and CR-240, so they also may have existed in the CR-x20 line as well.


----------



## wualta

There were indeed a CR-220 and -420.


----------



## trentino

Agree about the TOTL talk in this thread. I turn to other forums to discuss my lower end vintage receiver models, wouldn't want to embarass myself in here


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i actually just scored a pair of Forte II's
> holy crap i never knew 12 watts could sound that loud and that good


 

  The heritage line just loves tubes. And with their really high efficiency, it doesn't take but a few watts. My fisher sounds great on my forte II's. It's very loud at only 8:00. I hardly ever went past 9:00, and if I wanted a knock on the door from my neighbor 10:00
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But with that said, I moved my fisher upstairs to my bedroom rig. My w3000anv also loves tubes, and the fisher mates really well with it being transformer coupled and also being completely silent since the AT's are low impedance cans. I really miss it on my klipsch but replacing it with a Marantz 2325 isn't a bad consolation prize. Better bass, smoother top end, and a wider soundstage. But the mids paired with the fisher was simply glorious.


----------



## Audiowood

Hey folks,  I need some advice from the Vintage community. I have the Marantz 2238 and have found that the bass is superb. Does any of the RSA amps produce that SQ or simliar to the marantz 2238?


----------



## wotts

The only RSA products I have heard were the DarkStar and the A10. The DS has pretty amazing bass when using the HE-6 and I think it betters my Marantz 2265B some. It's hard to quantify. I hope to compare them side by side at some point. The A10 is the electrostatic headphone amp and the SR-009 was connected when I listened. The combo was on a whole new level for me. I don't think I can properly compare it to the 2265 I have.


----------



## Audiowood

Thanks Wotts for the info. that was helpful. I am looking at Apache, HR2 and Raptor if any of them has about the same qty of bass, I will pull the trigger.. Of course, I would like to start with the cheapest HR-2 but if DS is the only amp that would match and surpass, I will very likely pull the trigger..


----------



## wotts

I guess it also depends upon what cans you are looking to drive. I never felt like I could get any bass out of my K701s, but then I look at the T1 and there is plenty - properly amped. I do think the T1 pairs best with tubes, the 2265B is no slouch. My bet is the 2238 would make them sing as well. 
   
  I took a brief listen to the Apache at one of our meets, but I truly can not give a good impression. I don't recall what headphone was connected either. I think I was caught up in the DS and SR-009 being there. I even missed the HE-90 >_<


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





audiowood said:


> Thanks Wotts for the info. that was helpful. I am looking at Apache, HR2 and Raptor if any of them has about the same qty of bass, I will pull the trigger.. Of course, I would like to start with the cheapest HR-2 but if DS is the only amp that would match and surpass, I will very likely pull the trigger..


 


  The Apache (I had) and the Dark Star (currently own) share the same sound signature. The main difference is the power. If you are not going to use the HE-6 then the Apache is your ticket. I heard the Raptor some time ago. it is a nice little amp but I personally like the Apache much better.


----------



## Audiowood

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> The Apache (I had) and the Dark Star (currently own) share the same sound signature. The main difference is the power. If you are not going to use the HE-6 then the Apache is your ticket. I heard the Raptor some time ago. it is a nice little amp but I personally like the Apache much better.


 

 Thanks musicman59. In that case I will focus on Apache. I am using mainly LCD-3 and Ultrasone Sig Pro. Hope to bring this 2 phone to another level.


----------



## musicman59

If you go fully balanced from source to headphones the Apache will bring them to their next level. Another good option for those headphones is the Liquid Fire if you are not planning in going balanced. There is a Rudistor RP010B MkII in audiogon at a good price and you probably can offer a little less. I used to own that one too and is pretty good. Sold it to buy the DS because of the HE-6 otherwise it would still be here.


----------



## Meewoo

Any folks in windy city should consider getting http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROTEL-RB5000-RC5000-and-RT1024-/300696025440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4602e13960!!!!
   
  Of course, it may cost one of your legs!! But what a beautiful sets!!!!


----------



## Audiowood

Musicman59, thanks again.. I will research those gear u mention. Was trying to cheap out by getting the rsa hr-2 as I probably will be using single ended. Heard that they sound similar to apache, but on the other hand apache is just plain beautiful. Oh man.. I love this hobby.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Any folks in windy city should consider getting http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROTEL-RB5000-RC5000-and-RT1024-/300696025440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4602e13960!!!!
> 
> Of course, it may cost one of your legs!! But what a beautiful sets!!!!


 



OMG!


----------



## manveru

^^x2
   
  holy...


----------



## Skylab

Impressive looking stuff, that Rotel gear...but that's a bit much on the asking price, I think. But I don't know much about those units.


----------



## Meewoo

I think those Rotels are very rare, there might be only two digital numbers sold here!!  It's definitely rarer than Marantz 2600.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah...that's fine for the collectors. I am not in it for "rare". I am in it for the sound


----------



## firev1

Okay got it setuped in my room since my bros are all studying outside(as usual). Not exactly good room acoustics but its not something I can do about. 
   

   
  Yes, a chair will have to do....


----------



## wotts

Picked up a new toy today: Sansui Reverb Amp RA-500


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Picked up a new toy today: Sansui Reverb Amp RA-500


 
   
  I've always thought that thing looks extremely cool. I can't imagine ever using it for anything though. Does it actually sound any good?


----------



## wotts

BUSTED!!!  I totally bought it for looks. I'll hook it up properly and give it a listen. It was only $40 so it seemed justifiable as eye candy.
  
  Quote: 





manveru said:


> I've always thought that thing looks extremely cool.* I can't imagine ever using it for anything though.* Does it actually sound any good?


----------



## killer8297

I just realized I have one of these vintage receiver, the Marantz 2220B and I was hoping someone would tell me how good they are as a headphone amp.


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


> Picked up a new toy today: Sansui Reverb Amp RA-500





 
 
 Nice looking audio rack. What kind it is?


----------



## Skylab

wotts said:


> BUSTED!!!  I totally bought it for looks. I'll hook it up properly and give it a listen. It was only $40 so it seemed justifiable as eye candy.




If it makes you feel better, I have THREE components in my vintage rig that are for display fun only, all Pioneer - a SD-1100 scope, a RG-9 Dynamic Range Expander, and an SR-303 Reverb amp. Why not? I like 'em!


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





killer8297 said:


> I just realized I have one of these vintage receiver, the Marantz 2220B and I was hoping someone would tell me how good they are as a headphone amp.


 

 With the right headphones, the synergy can be very, very good.


----------



## Theoman

I have a Mcintosh MA-6100 integrated Amp and a C-30 Preamp and the headphone amp in both are pretty good.
  But I have been looking for a external Amp that would be better. any suggestions?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





killer8297 said:


> I just realized I have one of these vintage receiver, the Marantz 2220B and I was hoping someone would tell me how good they are as a headphone amp.


 


  I've not heard the 2220B but my 2245 sounds fantastic with all of my headphones.  its the best head amp i've got besides my WA2, and even then it's surprisingly close.
  i think you'll really enjoy it


----------



## MohawkUS

theoman said:


> I have a Mcintosh MA-6100 integrated Amp and a C-30 Preamp and the headphone amp in both are pretty good.
> But I have been looking for a external Amp that would be better. any suggestions?




If you like what you're hearing than you might be better off keeping what you've got. After listening to the headphone out of my Sherwood receiver I found my Burson headphone amp to sound a little off. You'll have to go pretty high end to beat a vintage amp, IMO at least.


----------



## killer8297

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> With the right headphones, the synergy can be very, very good.


 


  Well I'm waiting for my ATH-AD700 to ship to me, along with X-FI titanium sound card, would that be a good combo? Btw I tested out the 2220B with my RP-HTX7 headphone, I know they are cheap and all but I couldn't really tell the difference. I can adjust the nobs for bass, mid, and treble much like a equalizer but I can't seem to notice a huge improvement. Am I missing something here?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Picked up a new toy today: Sansui Reverb Amp RA-500


 







 Looks just like a Trade Show Exhibit!


----------



## wotts

Quote:


musicman59 said:


> Nice looking audio rack. What kind it is?


 

 It's a VTI rack. Four Cherry finished shelves, black tubes and silver hardware. http://www.cymax.com/VTI-BL304-4-Shelf-Audio-Rack.htm I really like it, but I do wish it were a little heavier. I might fill some of the tubes with sand.
  

  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> If it makes you feel better, I have THREE components in my vintage rig that are for display fun only, all Pioneer - a SD-1100 scope, a RG-9 Dynamic Range Expander, and an SR-303 Reverb amp. Why not? I like 'em!


 

 Make me feel better? Yes indeed! I have seen the pictures of your gear, and come to think of it, I recall you mentioning some of them are pretty much for fun. I have looked for that scope as well.
  

  
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looks just like a Trade Show Exhibit!


 

 Hehe, thanks!


----------



## wotts

I did get around to playing with it today. It sounds...weird. The reverb almost sounds like honking feedback. I think it has to do with the spring inside that drives the mechanism. I'll need to read up on it more.

  
  Quote: 





manveru said:


> I've always thought that thing looks extremely cool. I can't imagine ever using it for anything though. Does it actually sound any good?


----------



## manveru

Interesting...well, at least it looks nifty.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Quote: 





killer8297 said:


> Well I'm waiting for my ATH-AD700 to ship to me, along with X-FI titanium sound card, would that be a good combo? Btw I tested out the 2220B with my RP-HTX7 headphone, I know they are cheap and all but I couldn't really tell the difference. I can adjust the nobs for bass, mid, and treble much like a equalizer but I can't seem to notice a huge improvement. Am I missing something here?


 


  It may be that your inexpensive phones don't need much in the way of an amp, then.
   
  I use a Marantz 2220 (not a 2220B, but the differences are very small) for much of my headphone listening.  They drive vintage Stax electrostats very well, and my Beyerdynamic 990DTs sing out of the headphone jack.  I've just got a pair of AKG K1000's plugged in and they're pretty sweet, too.
   
  I know the Beyers sound flat and dull out of anything without enough power, and they work right on the Marantz.  They also work on the $1,200 worth of custom headphone amp I bought... but the Marantz drives them as well or nearly as well.
   
  The vintage gear is great stuff.


----------



## killer8297

Quote: 





lou erickson said:


> It may be that your inexpensive phones don't need much in the way of an amp, then.
> 
> I use a Marantz 2220 (not a 2220B, but the differences are very small) for much of my headphone listening.  They drive vintage Stax electrostats very well, and my Beyerdynamic 990DTs sing out of the headphone jack.  I've just got a pair of AKG K1000's plugged in and they're pretty sweet, too.
> 
> ...


 

 So I finally got my AD700 while the sound card is still on the way and I have to say the 2220B was quite astounding. When I had my new headphone plug in directly in to the computer, there was a noticeable lack of bass and sounded slightly harsh on the highs. When amplified they gave me a slight warmth to it with just enough bass impact. I had it for less than a hour so not much I can say about them, but the first thing I tired was gaming with them. It's a different experience that I still need to get use to.


----------



## Bralleput

Does anybody know anything about the: *[size=medium]Pioneer [/size][size=medium]SA-408 ?[/size]*
I can buy it for 40 euros, have no idea if this is a good deal or not..


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





bralleput said:


> Does anybody know anything about the: *[size=medium]Pioneer [/size][size=medium]SA-408 ?[/size]*
> I can buy it for 40 euros, have no idea if this is a good deal or not..


 
   


 I remember this guy had the 410:
   
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1680114


----------



## Bralleput

Thanks!, they look the same, I have no idea what the difference is. But 40 euro maybe is too much?...
  Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


>


 
   


 I remember this guy had the 410:
   
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1680114


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Although you will likely enjoy the amplifier enough to forgive the price, I would negotiate.
   
  After using a relative's Pioneer SA-6800 to power my headphones, it then made sense to get a "old" amp for myself.
  
  For $40 USD I got a Kenwood six blocks away from my house.
   
  The parametric controller made it very much worth the price.
  Quote: 





bralleput said:


> Thanks!, they look the same, I have no idea what the difference is. But 40 euro maybe is too much?...


----------



## Taowolf51

I have a question for you guys, it's something I've thought of a few times, but have been unable to answer.
  Why is "vintage" gear so cheap? It works/sounds just as good as modern gear (and is usually built far better). The market for it seems to be there, the demand seems to be there, but the gear still sells for a fraction of what it should. My stereo setup was so cheap I'd have trouble finding a POS at Best Buy for the same price, yet it's a stellar system.


----------



## MohawkUS

taowolf51 said:


> I have a question for you guys, it's something I've thought of a few times, but have been unable to answer.
> Why is "vintage" gear so cheap? It works/sounds just as good as modern gear (and is usually built far better). The market for it seems to be there, the demand seems to be there, but the gear still sells for a fraction of what it should. My stereo setup was so cheap I'd have trouble finding a POS at Best Buy for the same price, yet it's a stellar system.




Most people won't buy something that's not marketed all over the TV or internet, or that looks old and outdated. The lack of warranty plays into it a bit, but I think it's mostly marketing. After all this stuff isn't green, doesn't have 'HD Sound', nor will it work with surround sound.  Those of us only concerned with sound quality luck out. The more attention we bring to this gear the higher the price goes. That's why Pioneer and Marantz units are so high in price, but you can nab a similar performing unit from another company for a much lower price.


----------



## Bralleput

So I should not buy it? (sorry my English isn't.. well..)
  btw: does it matter if you have 2x10 watt or 2x20 watt if you drive a headphone on an amp...
  Quote: 





hamburgerladdy said:


> Although you will likely enjoy the amplifier enough to forgive the price, I would negotiate.
> 
> After using a relative's Pioneer SA-6800 to power my headphones, it then made sense to get a "old" amp for myself.
> 
> ...


----------



## hamburgerladdy

I would get it if it is convenient and you can afford it because you have the Koss closed headphones and your music preference is bass heavy.
   
  I spent a week convincing myself that I should get the amplifier over what...$40 bucks.
   
  Well, after I cleaned the thing out with an air dust spray and tightened the volume knob, the difference is clear that I got a bargain.
   
  I can't answer the question about watts though. 
   
   
  As to the question of the "vintage" being so cheap, well the new amplifiers have warranties, people in the line of production and design who want money and the extra dolby-type theatre tweaks for movies.
   
  There are no guarantees that you are getting a perfect item and it may need some TLC.
   
  Those who have the time and energy are typically rewarded with the sentiment that it was more than worth it.


----------



## Skylab

Vintage gear OFTEN needs some TLC. If you want truly plug and play and never have to touch it, then you buy new, or you buy restored vintage, which may not be so cheap. But if you are willing to do some cleaning of controls and switches, many times you can save a bundle and get better sound by going vintage. 

Some vintage gear is utter crap. But much of that is already in landfills. The stuff that's actually good is what has tended to stay around.


----------



## woody88

hey guys and gals again,
   
  while I am still debating on whether to get the SX-1050 that is about an hour away, a seller closer to me is selling his SX-780. and at a pretty big difference from the asking price of $250 of the 1050, I am slightly leaning towards the 780, the seller said there is just one issue for the 780. Here is his description: "The only problem I've had with it, is that occasionally the balance is off, and more volume comes out of either the right or the left. It may only be while using headphones (all I've used with it) or it may be with speakers as well, I'm not sure." I wanted to check with you guys to see if this is easy to fix it myself. Sounds like I need to use deoxit? I actually bought the ds5 from amazon, but really I have no clue on how to use it, even after reading the manufacturer's description page. for the ds5, can I just spray the entire board down with it? and where would I spray to address the 780's issue? 
   
  I bought the deoxit primarily for my existing Nad 3020, which I had a chance to peek with a flashlight. it has quite a bit of spiderwebs in it. could use a can of compressed air for sure. when I turn on the Nad, the unit itself makes a buzzing sound, and if I have speakers or headphones hooked up to it, the buzzing sound will come through there as well. however, it does not sound like hum, and it would go away in less than 1 min usually, then after that, everything is fine. do I just open the unit, use compressed air to get rid of the webs, then just use the ds5 to spray it throughout the entire board? sorry for such a n00bish question. I know this is like a 4 part question on this post, but if someone can possibly provide some feedback on, I'd greatly appreciate it.
   
  I am on like page 270 of this thread, started from page 1, only 36 more pages then I am caught up!


----------



## Meewoo

I would suggest you go SX-1050. It's totally in different league with 780 regarding build quality and reselling value.
  Besides, you already had very good low wattage NAD 3020, why not buy a high watts 1050.
   
  As for the deoxiting, you don't need to spray all the circuit board, just focus on the controller pots. As for the buzzing sound,(turning on or off), I think the capacitors aren't in spec. I have some old ones have same problem, and was told recapping will solve the problems.


----------



## Skylab

Totally agree. The 1050 was the second from the top of the SX-xx50 series. The 780 was in the lower middle. If you can afford it, the 1050 is the much nicer receiver.


----------



## woody88

thanks guys for the reply; well, things took a bad turn unexpectedly; I called the 1050 guy up, and he said someone gave him a $100 deposit and that he has to hold it for him. And he is going to hold it for him until this Saturday. if the guy still does not come out to him on Saturday, he would then let me listen and possibly buy it. but he had gone back up on his original pricing, instead of the prices that I originally negotiated with him at $250. it's not a big difference, but he said since now he is not "hurting for money", he cannot sell at the negotiated price via email with him.
   
  and he said that he has collected a lot of vintage stereos, and is wanting to push the Kenwood Model Eleven III at this time. He said "between the me and you", the Kenwood is a better receiver. The 1050 has one light out, which is the speaker C selector light he said. and on the Kenwood, one of the meter's light is out. I have not heard about the Kenwood much, particularly that model, as from what I have read in this thread, it was the 9600 that was talked about the most. Does anyone have any thoughts on the Kenwood? and given the pricing change by him all of a sudden, should I be concerned? he told me the lowest he will go on the Kenwood will be $300, but somehow I have a feeling that by the time I show up at his door, he would say $325. what do you guys think of all of this? or make of it?
   
  should I still check in with him on Saturday to see if 1050 is still available, or possibly go for the Kenwood? or should I just keep it simple and go with the 780, cause it seemed there's less drama there?


----------



## Meewoo

Don't go Pioneer sx-780, your NAD3020 will serve you well.
   
  As for Kenwood Eleven iii, I was told it's a very good receiver and damn sexy. I never heard eleven iii even though I have Kenwood KR-9040 and some integrated amp. Kenny may not be built well as Pionner SX-1050. But like the seller, I prefer Kenny sound to pioneer's. Kenny sound is darker and warmer than Pionny, I always feel Kenny's sound is very sweet. Kenny doesn't sound warm as NAD, 80's NAD is warmest sound to me. You can pair Kenny with bright speakers or Headphones, but not Sennheiser's.
   
  I would suggest you bring your headphones to the seller and audit both Kenny and Pionny, you can decide yourself.
   
  Also, Kenny doesn't hold same reselling price as Pionny. If you can get Kenny price down to $200, the price/value will be same as $250 SX-1050. $300 seems a little high to me, but as I said, it's very good receiver.


----------



## woody88

Thanks meewoo, so go big or go home, that is the approach right? does that mean you do not believe that going from 3020 to 780 will not yield that big of performance gain? I wanted to know if it would. Obviously I know that going from 3020 to 1050 will be a big difference, but do not know if it will gain in sound quality when going from 3020's 20 watts versus 780's 45 watts, quality and quantity wise.
   
  Another interesting thing was that I asked the seller what he thought of the Kenwood vs. Pioneer sound. He summed it up as Pioneer has more bass, and Kenwood as brighter sounding. Definitely different from what you had said. But from the resale value, I would definitely go with the Pioneer in that regard.
   
  Back to the drawing board I go; I guess I will give the seller a call on Saturday to see if his guy is coming to pick up the 1050, or if it's available again for me to take a look. I think I will go for 1050, or bust, possibly. Not in a super hurry to get a vintage receiver, although sometimes I do let the emotions get the best of me, and wanting to get something then and there, sooner the better. lol
   
  Speaking of good news, I was able to take the 3020 apart, and went to town with it on the deoxit d5; I did get to spray most of the parts on the board as well as the controls. I am happy to report that the buzzing sound that comes on for a minute or two when I first turn on the 3020 is gone! Who would've thunk it? And that is a good sign as my local stereoshop had said that it may take $150-$200 to fix the buzzing issue based on what I described to them via voicemail. Now I will be able to enjoy the 3020 a bit more; without thinking that I have to get another vintage receiver/integrated amp right away. thanks to everybody's feedback and tips. I'll let you guys know if I happen to have any luck on Saturday, to have that 1050 become available again.....


----------



## Rawrbington

My theory on the bigger the better is just due to higher quality parts.mwhich usually can result in better sound. However if your damping factor is all out of whack the quality parts don't mean as much.
I spent a few hours with a 1050 an acquaintance of mine had for sale.mit sounded ok with my headphones I brought over, 650, 990 and 770 pro. But the difference was minimal if any from my sx 950. Both to me sound a bit too bloated, probably from poor damping.

However my sx 650 which is significantly cheaper sounded every bit as good as either of it's big siblings. All 3 of which are shamed by my marantz 2245.

I think the formula for success in a receiver for headphones, granted it depends on what u are driving, is quality parts with a lower powered amp section. The amp section doesn't have to be resisted as much so your damping factor isn't completely out of whack, and you are getting sound produced by hi end components.

Just a theory though.


----------



## Meewoo

I'm not saying "bigger is better". I have some small units and I have more bigger units. As @rawrbington said, big units usually have better building quality and reseller values. I think Pionner SX-950 and up shares the same building quality with toroidal transformers.
   
  When I first went into vintage world, I bought some small units to try since I had no experience at all. But I was always tempted by the big, beautiful units, I always dreamed to own a big one. Later, I got the big units, my earlier small units were not used that much and wen into closet. Based on my experience, if I can choose to restart this hobby again, I would definitely go for big at beginning after one or two small unit. Now you have read this thread, you can have a big picture of vintage stuff. So I suggest you go higher model.
  
  Also please remember every *stocked* vintage piece has it's unique sound. So you may found your low model unit sounds better than high model one. And some people also prefer lower watts unit, just choose the unit based on your preference!!!! And good luck!!


----------



## Rawrbington

Anybody heard the sansui 8080? I'm looking to give a sansui a try.


----------



## Meewoo

I have a 9090 and G-8000. About two weeks ago, I connect G-8000 and Pionny Sx-1010 with my JBL L-7 speakers, the G-8000 totally blew the SX-1010 away with more defined everything. 
   
  9090 and 8080 are very sought Sansui. It has warm tone, rich mid and punchy Sansui bass. If you like Marantz, you may like Sansui as well. But, YMMV!!


----------



## EndersShadow

My dad has a old Yamaha CR-240 stereo reciever in the attic.  Any thoughts about using this to drive my headphones in my low budget office setup?
   
  Looking to grab a pair of ALO modded Ultrasone HFI-780's to go with it.  Source would be my iPhone through either a iStreamer, or a straight 3.5mm to RCA adaptor.  Music is all re-encoded AIFF thats 256 kbps so I dont know if its worth the cost of the iStreamer....


----------



## Skylab

I also have a 9090 and it's terrific. I use it exclusively for headphones, but I love it - great piece. I'm sure the 8080 is also terrific.


----------



## Rawrbington

awesome.
  a local collector has a G 8000 and an 8080(non DB)
  hes asking like 275 for the 8080 and 600 or 700 for the G 8000.
  both are in really good condition.
   
  which should i go with?
  what is the difference between the 8080 and 8080DB?


----------



## Meewoo

At those prices, I would go 8080. G-8000 is a little neutral than x0x0.
   
  DB version had Dolby board and a little higher watts. People prefer non-db version since DB board has no replacement. If the DB board goes wrong, some AKers say can by-pass it, some say couldn't. I will always buy non DB version to avoid this problem.


----------



## Skylab

Meewoo nailed it.  8080 all the way, at those prices.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> Speaking of good news, I was able to take the 3020 apart, and went to town with it on the deoxit d5; *I did get to spray most of the parts on the board *as well as the controls. I am happy to report that the buzzing sound that comes on for a minute or two when I first turn on the 3020 is gone! Who would've thunk it? And that is a good sign as my local stereoshop had said that it may take $150-$200 to fix the buzzing issue based on what I described to them via voicemail. Now I will be able to enjoy the 3020 a bit more; without thinking that I have to get another vintage receiver/integrated amp right away. thanks to everybody's feedback and tips. I'll let you guys know if I happen to have any luck on Saturday, to have that 1050 become available again.....


 
   
  You are wasting good DeOxit spraying in on circuit boards.  DeOxit is a contact cleaner.  Don't think I've ever head of spraying it on a circuit board doing anything but causing a mess.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Vintage gear OFTEN needs some TLC. If you want truly plug and play and never have to touch it, then you buy new, or you buy restored vintage, which may not be so cheap. But if you are willing to do some cleaning of controls and switches, many times you can save a bundle and get better sound by going vintage.
> Some vintage gear is utter crap. But much of that is already in landfills. The stuff that's actually good is what has tended to stay around.


 
   
  I think that's it.
   
  The "big" stereo here, the one on the TV in the living room is a Marantz 2235B.  It works, but if you leave it on too long, you can smell something getting hot (needs to be recapped!) and all the lights are burned out.  That said, it drives our media center more loudly than our neighbors like, and does a fine job.
   
  If it dies - when it dies - I'll have it fixed.  I've got a Marantz 2220 in the bedroom that will fill in for it while it's being repaired.  (And another 2235B with a bad channel that might be parts, or be fixable.)  I'm on a very slowly advancing list to have them all restored, but they're working well enough till then.
   
  EDIT: Speaking of repairs and TLC, my vintage Marantz turntable has apparently died.  Was going to work at home and thought that I'd play a little vinyl while tests ran, and discovered it's not working.  Back to the repair shop it goes.
   
  This does point out that we don't have a 7.1 surround system.  We have 2.1, with a powered sub connected to the speakers out of the Marantz.  That's enough.
   
  Now, I wonder if you could use a pair of the old quadrophonic tuners to drive a 7.1 system... =)  You'd have to adjust the volume manually, or chain them together somehow.
   
  How much is actually on the "center" channel in a 5.1 system, anyway?  Could you just ignore it and use a quadrophonic tuner's inputs?


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> You are wasting good DeOxit spraying in on circuit boards.  DeOxit is a contact cleaner.  Don't think I've ever head of spraying it on a circuit board doing anything but causing a mess.


 
   

 duly noted....this is why I am a n00b. I thought I read somewhere on the can that said protects surfaces, so I thought what the heck, spray some of that bad boy on it as well. I hope it will not cause a mess down the line though. maybe I'll wait a bit, then maybe try to clean it with a cotton swab. for now though, I am just happy to know that all that buzzing had gone away upon firing up the integrated.......
   
  glad also that I did not buy the combo pack from Radioshack, as I heard it is a tiny, tiny can!


----------



## Rawrbington

the gold is supposed to protect surfaces of contacts but no use in spraying down the PCB or Waffer boards.
   
  no harm no foul though really
   
  only thing it really does is leave a little bit of a greasy residue


----------



## Rawrbington

picked up the 8080 today.
  i like it.
  slightly warmer than the marantz.
  sounds really good with my Klipsch speakers


----------



## Meewoo

Looks nice!! Congrats!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  How do you feel about Sansui's bass?


----------



## Rawrbington

So far I'm a fan. I'm a bass head at heart but as I've delved into quality audio equipment I've began to appreciate superior detail above everything except musicality. So the bass is enjoyable for me. And it compensates for the poor bass acoustics of my room.

My 600 ohm 990s like the sansui too. It's maybe a hair too noisy for my hd650 though.

I think this will be my main speaker/living room receiver, the 2245 will go back to my room since I do most headphone listening in there. The marantz is still significantly better for my headphones to my ears. But through the speakers it's a toss up. So yeah I'm very pleased.

The sx 950 really serves no purpose in my house anymore. :mad:
So that means its going on Craigslist in the closet


----------



## EndersShadow

Quote: 





endersshadow said:


> My dad has a old Yamaha CR-240 stereo reciever in the attic.  Any thoughts about using this to drive my headphones in my low budget office setup?
> 
> Looking to grab a pair of ALO modded Ultrasone HFI-780's to go with it.  Source would be my iPhone through either a iStreamer, or a straight 3.5mm to RCA adaptor.  Music is all re-encoded AIFF thats 256 kbps so I dont know if its worth the cost of the iStreamer....


 
   

 bump


----------



## Rawrbington

I'd guess it will do just fine. It's a nice little vintage receiver with a slick classic look. It will probably be a touch on the bright side like every yam I've ever heard. But I will also venture a guess that it will bring out some bass on the headphones. 

I have one of its bigger brothers the 640, it's a little bright, has good detail all while having a decent bottom end. I rank it right beside the sx 950 for headphones but behind the pioneer for speakers.

I doubt you'll be disappointed. But I'm not sure the ultrasones need much power.

Give it a go and let us know the results.


Oh and pictures please!


----------



## Meewoo

@ebdershadow
   
  CR-240 will drive most headphones well, I think it has two headphones ports too. What a plus!
   
  @Rawrbington,
   
  Seems that you like warm sound in general!! 
   
  Sansui's bass is just right for me!  You might find HK suits you too.
   
  Here is my just repaired Sansui QRX-8001, it's just two 8080 inside. With its big brother QRX-9001, they are best quad-receivers ever built!


----------



## Rawrbington

Meewoo a question about the veneer on the 8080 and it's kin. The vinyl veneer is starting to peel a little bit on that bottom strip that's underneath the face plate.mthe guy that I got it from said the top sleeve/cabinet was peeling when he got it so he stripped it all off and there was real wood underneath so he had it finished and stained.

I'm wondering if this is the case with that bottom strip. Cause it's the only part that still has the vinyl veneer. May just stip it and stain it myself. It's such a small piece anyways


Oh holy crap those pictures didn't load on my iPad at first. 
Is the qx bigger than the G8000?!?!

Man those things are awesome looking. I know how big the 8000 is and it makes my 8080 look average sized haha.

Do u ever run a quad speaker set up?


----------



## Skylab

Rawrbington looks great! 

For headphone use engage the 20dB Muting. It will for sure quiet things down.


----------



## Meewoo

QRX-8001 is wider than G-8000 but a little shorter. They are almost same weight. 
   
  I know you can strip the veneer and re-veneer the case. If yours is just a small part, why not just re-veneer that part. It's a little hard to strip the veneer, or I didn't get the key.
   
  I never try quadra setup yet, but I may try later. I am sorry for your in closet SX-950, I think some members maybe interested with it!


----------



## EndersShadow

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I'd guess it will do just fine. It's a nice little vintage receiver with a slick classic look. It will probably be a touch on the bright side like every yam I've ever heard. But I will also venture a guess that it will bring out some bass on the headphones.
> I have one of its bigger brothers the 640, it's a little bright, has good detail all while having a decent bottom end. I rank it right beside the sx 950 for headphones but behind the pioneer for speakers.
> I doubt you'll be disappointed. But I'm not sure the ultrasones need much power.
> Give it a go and let us know the results.
> Oh and pictures please!


 
   
  Yeah, no speakers for the office setup.  Had planned on using the O2 headphone amp I purchased off CL, but its acting up and I dont have the skills to fix it, so gonna go with using what I already have instead....
   
  Gives me a bit of EQ as well..
   
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> @ebdershadow
> 
> CR-240 will drive most headphones well, I think it has two headphones ports too. What a plus!


 
   
  From what I remember its only got 1 headphone port, but its been a bit since I have looked at it....


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





endersshadow said:


> From what I remember its only got 1 headphone port, but its been a bit since I have looked at it....


 
   
  You are correct.


----------



## Lou Erickson

It was surprisingly warm this weekend.  Too warm to do anything much.
   
  I spent most of the weekend listening to vinyl on my recently-acquired AKG K1000's.  The Marantz 2220 and turntable gives them a lovely, warm sound and I just sat and listened most of the weekend.  (It was warm enough that I my hair remained consistently damp, and I didn't dare use the Stax.  With the K1000s I didn't mind.)
   
  I thought gently about reel to reel - it may be out of my price range - and about a record cleaning machine, but I mostly listened.  I'm sitting here, grinning like an idiot and more relaxed than I've been in weeks.
   
  That's why we do this, isn't it?  To listen to music, and be happy.  It's so easy to forget that and get caught up in "more!" and "latest, greatest!"  Take the time to have a good long listen.


----------



## woody88

hey guys,
   
  has anyone heard of Pioneer QX-949? a local sale opened up possibly, but I have not heard too much of this receiver at all, versus what I have read about the SX series. I think if I read it correctly, it is a 4 channel receiver, and in 2 channel, it is 75x2. I'd love to see if anyone have heard of this receiver and their impression of it, and would it be sufficient to drive headphones, if I would later down the line get hifiman or audeze. also, what is consider a good price? seller said he had just gotten it serviced. any feedback again is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Rawrbington

any of you guys heard the Marantz 2238?  non b.  i ran into one in really nice condition.  i've heard that the 2238 was one of the weird ones from the 22xx series.
  im wondering if i can expect the same performance and sound as what i get out of my 2245.  i figure they should be similar.  but im not sure.  plus the 2245 was designed 5 or 6 years prior to the 2238


----------



## trentino

Enjoying my Marantz 2270, actually using the tuner right now. Great sound from this receiver, I'm really glad the shop was able to fix it for me, it was in really bad shape


----------



## trentino

Anyone here have experience with Marantz 4XXX series?
  I was thinking, when using let's say a Marantz 4300 with head phones (there are 2 hp' out on these) can one get all the 100W*2 goodness or is it only half since it's a quad receiver and 2 hp out?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





trentino said:


> Anyone here have experience with Marantz 4XXX series?
> I was thinking, when using let's say a Marantz 4300 with head phones (there are 2 hp' out on these) can one get all the 100W*2 goodness or is it only half since it's a quad receiver and 2 hp out?


 
   
  It really doesn't matter.........there should be more than enough power to drive 99% of cans from either HP out.


----------



## trentino

Yes of course, not many, if any, hp's need that much power. Was just wondering how the quad thing works with hp out.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> hey guys,
> 
> has anyone heard of Pioneer QX-949? a local sale opened up possibly, but I have not heard too much of this receiver at all, versus what I have read about the SX series. I think if I read it correctly, it is a 4 channel receiver, and in 2 channel, it is 75x2. I'd love to see if anyone have heard of this receiver and their impression of it, and would it be sufficient to drive headphones, if I would later down the line get hifiman or audeze. also, what is consider a good price? seller said he had just gotten it serviced. any feedback again is greatly appreciated.


 
   
  I have seen the pics, and it looks SUPER cool - love the scope!  It's a Quad receiver, and so you have to accept that there is a bunch of circuitry you do not need and will not use.  But if the price is right and the condition is good, I would not hesitate to get it.


----------



## BGRoberts

I've been using one off and on for several years now.
  It was an ebay find, and purchased quite reasonably, if I recall correctly.
  Plenty of power for my Pioneer HPM100's and Snells.
  I haven't used the headphone jacks much, but seem adequate.
   
  Quote: 





woody88 said:


> hey guys,
> 
> has anyone heard of Pioneer QX-949? a local sale opened up possibly, but I have not heard too much of this receiver at all, versus what I have read about the SX series. I think if I read it correctly, it is a 4 channel receiver, and in 2 channel, it is 75x2. I'd love to see if anyone have heard of this receiver and their impression of it, and would it be sufficient to drive headphones, if I would later down the line get hifiman or audeze. also, what is consider a good price? seller said he had just gotten it serviced. any feedback again is greatly appreciated.


----------



## woody88

Thanks Skylab and BGRoberts for your reply. When I first saw it being available, I was scratching my head as well, as I have not heard it. But after pulling up some pics, it looks pretty cool indeed. Some of the AK posts that I saw, members said that scope thing could be prone to break down, so I am slightly concerned about that. Would anyone say that I would get some decent sound improvement on this Pioneer receiver versus my current NAD 3020?
   
  by the way, the price seemed to fluctuate a bit. from high 100 to high 300, so I really have no idea what is a good price. Seller would like $300 he said. I am going to see if he can actually offer service receipts since he said it was recently serviced.
   
  and also, it is not 75x2 as that was 4ohm rating. for 8 ohms, and 2 channels, it is 60x2.


----------



## Skylab

If everything works perfectly, he can give you the receipt for the recent service, and the cosmetics are good, $300 is a fair price.


----------



## BGRoberts

+1 to Skylab's reply.
  The quad balance display on mine is kind of flakey, but the balance controls all work.
  I've never opened this unit up for cleaning or anything else....it's just as it came from "the wild".
  I'd say it was worth the $300 price.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> If everything works perfectly, he can give you the receipt for the recent service, and the cosmetics are good, $300 is a fair price.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> Would anyone say that I would get some decent sound improvement on this Pioneer receiver versus my current NAD 3020?


 
   
  Your NAD 3020 is a very nice integrated amp.  Would imagine the HP out sounds very nice.  It made Stereophile's top 10 or 12 list a while back.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Your NAD 3020 is a very nice integrated amp.  Would imagine the HP out sounds very nice.  It made Stereophile's top 10 or 12 list a while back.


 
  +1!!
   
  The Pionny Qx-949 is just a different sound and looks. I think it sounds like sx-1010 or SX-x3x, NAD sounds warmer than Pionny.


----------



## woody88

thanks for all the replies; I would say that I do like the NAD 3020 quite a bit. but after reading through all 309 pages of it, I have caught a bit of the vintage Pioneer bug, and kind of am looking for a vintage Pioneer here and there. I would say the NAD's warm tone tend to match up with my HD650 quite well with its somewhat darker sound signature. I just sort of wanted to try something different to see if I would like it. Anyone here that actually use a HD650 that's paired up with a Pioneer vintage? At the end of the day, I am still debating if I go the QX-949 route, whether or not I would think it would make a change for the better. All the guesswork is exciting and puzzling at the same time....


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> thanks for all the replies; I would say that I do like the NAD 3020 quite a bit. but after reading through all 309 pages of it, I have caught a bit of the vintage Pioneer bug, and kind of am looking for a vintage Pioneer here and there. I would say the NAD's warm tone tend to match up with my HD650 quite well with its somewhat darker sound signature. I just sort of wanted to try something different to see if I would like it. Anyone here that actually use a HD650 that's paired up with a Pioneer vintage? At the end of the day, I am still debating if I go the QX-949 route, whether or not I would think it would make a change for the better. All the guesswork is exciting and puzzling at the same time....


 
   

 I do have HD-650, but I don't like it with NAD at all, too warm to me. I usually pair HD-650 with my Yammy CA-2010 or Denon PMA-770 which all have neutral/accurate tone. I think it will work with Pionny too, especially with sx-x50 or SX-x80 or later. I feel HD-650 with Sx-1010 a bitter warm and "veil" is still there. (I prefer AKG to Senn in general) If you like HD-650 with NAD, I think you will enjoy hd650 and qx-949 more.


----------



## woody88

an update; after speaking with the seller for over an hour, he had convinced me that I would really end up wasting too much of the hardware of the quad receiver, and I will be back to the drawing board, to maybe source a x50 series receiver. kind of a bummer, cause I kind of wanted to see the receiver in person, but after speaking with him extensively, it really does seem like I would waste a lot of the technology and hardware by hooking up to headphones. so the NAD will have to serve its duties some more with the headphones. thanks a lot for everybody's feedback.....


----------



## BmWr75

Quad technology died in the 1970s.  So any use of this receiver is going to waste ~1/2 the components in it.  Don't let that factor into your decision.  If the receiver is a good buy........give it a try with headphones!!


----------



## dogwan

I need a recommendation for a slim vintage receiver.
   
  It's not for me, but for a friend. Here's the story.....
   
  About 2 years ago I picked up a rough Pioneer SX-680 for $20. I cleaned it up and made a fresh real wood veneer case for it (I'm a cabinetmaker). It turned out really well. I actually really dug the sound at the time. The purpose of the project was to give it to my friend as a housewarming present for his 1st home purchase.
   
  Last week I was visiting the same friend up in Seattle and observed that it is still running great and is just as stunning as ever. When I commented that I was looking for another one (after following this thread) he suggested that I could have it back if I found him something smaller. Turns out all he does is use it to listen to talk radio and occasionally runs the TV through it. Can you believe he thinks it is too big?
   
  So now I'm on a mission. Of course nothing is turning up on Craigslist. If I can find something for $20-30 I can get the 680 back. Now, I don't want to just give him some P.O.S. I want to find something that is an overlooked sleeper. It doesn't have to be audiophile quality or anything. Just needs to be decent and low-profile.
   
  Does anyone have a recommendation for something that might turn up Ebay or something in the right price range?
   
  Thanks,
  Dogwan


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> I need a recommendation for a slim vintage receiver.
> 
> It's not for me, but for a friend. Here's the story.....
> 
> ...


 
   

 You could take a look at a Pioneer SX-40 from the early eighties. They turn up on eBay every once in awhile and they aren't usually that expensive. I've always enjoyed the sound of mine, from both the speaker outs and the headphone jack as well. It's still kicking strong after however many years its been.


----------



## estreeter

Elegant simplicity:
   
http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=9404
   

   
  So very British - understated and timeless. We really threw the baby out with the bathwater in the 80s, didnt we ? Video Consumer electronics killed the radio audio star.


----------



## Skylab

That is very lovely, no doubt! I'm a sucker for electronics wrapped in wood


----------



## BGRoberts

That's a beauty!  I, too love the classic wood look.
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Elegant simplicity:
> 
> http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article.asp?a=9404
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  That's a beauty


----------



## monoethylene

Hi,
   
  My first post here 
   
  In a few days, I will get the 2265B Marantz? Whats about the hp out? Is it good?
   
  Right now I have a 1122DC and the headphone output is really nice with the T1s..a lot of power 
   
  Further I will get the Fisher FM-200-B in a few days.. I am excited 
   
  Philipp


----------



## Skylab

The 2265B should be very nice! I've never heard one, but that era of Marantz is very good.


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks a lot Skylab!
   
  I will write my experience as soon as I get the unit.


----------



## wotts

I love my 2265B. I do the majority of my listening lately via the Marantz and the W3000ANV. And sometimes the HPM-100s...


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks for this input..I will try the 2265B as soon as possible


----------



## Meewoo

Today is my lucky day! I was contacted a gentleman on Friday who want to trade a Luxman L-110 for my Heresy. He brought the IA to me today, and what a beautiful piece! You all know that I am a Luxman sucker, so please tolerate me to post a lot of pictures!
   

   

   
  Here are my T-110 on top of L-110.

   
  Little brother L-85v on top of L-110

   
  After I got L-110, I am kind done with pursuing vintage stuff, I won't have to look though CL and ePay anymore. Hey, but my guts keeps telling me I still have to buy a set of Kyocera separates. What a hobby!!! Good day to all yo!! And happy hunting!!


----------



## Skylab

Meewoo, that's beautiful !!!! Congrats. Look at the size of those filter caps  Wow. Very nice.


----------



## BmWr75

Picked this Scott 299A( type 2) up at AKFest 2012 today.  Already refurbished per the seller.  I tried her out with a voltage divider speaker out to HP adapter.  She's sounds great!!


----------



## Skylab

Great Scott, Scott!!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, buddy, that's awesome. Very, very nice.


----------



## Rawrbington

man that Scott is awesome!
  i bet it sounds fantastic.
  the 299 was one of their higher end models wasn't it?
  i can't imagine how great it sounds
  my bottom of the line 200B sounds very nice.  so i bet that things is amazing


----------



## BmWr75

Thanks guys.
   
  I don't know how HH Scott's model numbers progressed with respect to BOTL to TOTL.  It is an EL84 based integrated amp and is a type 2 which means the power tubes are arranged from side to side instead of front to back like the type 1.


----------



## BrownBear

That Scott is a beautiful unit. It's amazing what things were like in the past. It always fascinates me to listen to and use older equipment, especially when you find that gem that just blows you away.


----------



## estreeter

Sigh - seeing the Scott and the Luxman remind me just how ordinary most modern electronics really is aesthetically. I'd better go for a walk before my thoughts turn to a chair and a stout length of rope.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  At least Yamaha are still prepared to make em like they used to:


----------



## RexAeterna

yea yamaha are one of few that still makes them somewhat like they use to. still though, i personally think yamaha's best work in my opinion is always the 1980's M-XX, and late 1970's B-X series power amps. some of the most transparent sounding power amps even to this day, right next to harman kardon power amps.


----------



## Rawrbington

any of you guys got a 2250B?
  i think i may buy one. 
  I've read that the newer, say post 1975 designed 22xx series sound slightly different than the older '71 designs. Not as warm and more detailed i guess is what i've seen.  i dunno though.  I think the 2250B is supposed to sound a lot like the 2275.
   
  I guess i can find out. 
   
  went and looked at a 2325 yesterday.  local lady had it for sale.  she wanted 400$.  and lets just say that was too much for the condition.  sadly.  3 or 4 badly bent pots.  power switch looked like someone had hit it with a hammer repeatedly.  multiple switches wouldn't stay engaged.  dial glass/plastic scratched up badly.  face plate was a mess.  and might have had a number of internal issues it was just impossible to tell because every pot and switch was so staticy.
   
  asked if she'd go 250 and she said no.
  So i told her how to clean it up and fix the scratchy pots and or part it out.
  too bad.
  cause i'd love a 2325


----------



## estreeter

Guys, anyone have any experience with Oak Tree ?
   
http://www.oaktreevintage.com/Stereo_Receivers.htm
   
  Those of you who do your own restorations will probably look at those prices and smirk, but I dont plan to buy 15 receivers off ebay in the hope of getting a good one. There are other suppliers, but most work on the premise that you send them your receiver and they send it back to you when its been resto'd - I'd prefer a one-stop shop. All feedback welcome. 
   
  BTW, this is very much the way I imagine Skylab's 'study' :


----------



## Skylab

LOL! My office does have about that much gear it it, but it's much more neatly displayed 

My house is a 130 year old Victorian that we bought in 1999 and have fixed up. The 3rd floor attic is where my office and "man cave" are, and it's finished loft-style. So it's nice and open up there, about 900 square feet, but divided into three "areas" because of the way the roof is. One is my office, one is the man cave, and one is our rarely used guest bedroom. I'm lucky to have that space, as it is well insulated from the rest of the house, and my playing loud music isn't too big a problem  

As for Oak Tree, I have seen their site before, but not ever bought from them. They are one of those people that service vintage gear but don't really "restore" them fully, in that they clean and will replace parts that are truly bad, but they do not go through and do a complete replacement of every electrolytic capacitor (which is what I have had done on my SX-1980, SX-1280, and 9090DB).


----------



## monoethylene

My new one 
   
  But it is only a tuner


----------



## Pudu

Would the headphone output on something like the 2285B be ok for low impedance cans.


(editted for what I now realize was a stupid question)


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> LOL! My office does have about that much gear it it, but it's much more neatly displayed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Rob, I can definitely see how I could start collecting these receivers off EBay - they have so much appeal for those of us who couldnt afford them new. In some cases, even if the thing didnt power up it would make me happy just to be able to look at it - most of the 'woodies' light my fire, and it would be so easy to find yourself wanting to collect an entire series of Marantz/Sansui/Pioneer receivers, particularly the silver models. One thing to collect headphone amps, but these things would entail some serious shipping charges.


----------



## trentino

Estreteer, we are a couple of years too late - the vintage craze makes the receivers almost unaffordable...again...sort of. At least in Sweden where I live.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Rob, I can definitely see how I could start collecting these receivers off EBay - they have so much appeal for those of us who couldnt afford them new. In some cases, even if the thing didnt power up it would make me happy just to be able to look at it - most of the 'woodies' light my fire, and it would be so easy to find yourself wanting to collect an entire series of Marantz/Sansui/Pioneer receivers, particularly the silver models. One thing to collect headphone amps, but these things would entail some serious shipping charges.


 
   
  Well they take up too much space even for me to collect a LOT of them, tempting as it is.  Even the five I have is silly, although I am actually using four of the five daily, so it's not so ridiculous.  And for every vintage receiver, I sold at least two headphone amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I actually really don't own even one dedicated home headphone amp anymore, given that the Leben and Decware amps I have are really integrated amps, and my RWA AE is used mostly as a DAC...


----------



## trentino

Im about to buy a Pioneer sx1010. Although quite satisfied with M2270 I've always liked the heavy Pioneer receivers. Always wanted to own one. The seller wants $500-550, he is the first owner, bought it mid seventies. It wotks great and is in good shape. Just to give you an idea of the prices here. I think its a bit much, I get the feeling they are somewhat cheaper in the US.


----------



## Skylab

That's a bit high for a 1010, but not crazy high.  I bought a fully recapped 1010 here for $400, and sold it a few months later for the same price, about 6 months ago or so.


----------



## trentino

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's a bit high for a 1010, but not crazy high.  I bought a fully recapped 1010 here for $400, and sold it a few months later for the same price, about 6 months ago or so.


 
   

 Ok, thanks. I guess it's a bit different here. Smaller country I guess means a few less vintage receivers in "ok" condition 
  But I feel the same way, $500-$550 is a bit much. Although I understand where the seller comes from, both he and I witnessed a web auction on a smaller Pioneer modell, end price was $650..
  So it is some kind of vintage hysteria going on, that's for sure.


----------



## trentino

Skylab, would you mind letting me know which hp's you enjoyed the most with the SX1010? Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

I didn't use the 1010 extensively with headphones, but it's got plenty of power, and its slightly warm signature worked well with the HE-6.


----------



## theRunawayV

Hey guys, thought I'd share my vintage Marantz with you. It was handed down to me by my dad who didn't actually intend to buy this unit in the late 1970's. He had intended to buy a Marantz turntable, and his box came down from the warehouse on a conveyor belt; he paid, and left. Well, he noticed it was a BIT heavy, and looked in the box. Lo and behold, the receiver! Needless to say he took it. Only paid $120.00 for it.
   
  Now she is mine, and I popped her open to give her a clean and she was dirty as anything. Nothing a little pressurized air couldn't fix though. She now plays perfectly. Her sound is so warm and clean. Not to mention how good this receiver looks in the dark! I'm sure this receiver has been mentioned at least once in this thread, but I thought I'd contribute..  
                                 


                                     ^ Sorry for the cell phone picture.. I'll try and take a shot with my DSLR soon.. ^
   
  The turntable is an entry level Pro-ject Debut 3, and works very well with this receiver, especially paired with some Grado's. This setup is really nice for listening to stuff like Led Zeppelin. Listening to Led Zeppelin 3 is like heaven with this setup. I'm planning on upgrading the cans to the 325i's ASAP. I just sold my dad's *cough*****ty*cough* Bose QC15's so it shouldn't be too long. I would also like to get a cartridge upgrade but I'm just not in the market yet..
   
  *edit*: Just ordered the 325i's. Can't wait to start burning them in!


----------



## Rawrbington

i love those all silver faced ones.
  amazing aesthetics
  what model is it?
  im gonna guess 2252B?


----------



## theRunawayV

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i love those all silver faced ones.
> amazing aesthetics
> what model is it?
> im gonna guess 2252B?


 
   
  Yeah, the aesthetics on this model are stunning. 
  And yes, it is a 2252B.


----------



## OldSkool

Beautiful 2252B!!! Love it! Your Dad got a great deal on that one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I also prefer the all-silver face. I'm listening to my 2216B right now, while the 2226B is at the spa.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





trentino said:


> Ok, thanks. I guess it's a bit different here. Smaller country I guess means a few less vintage receivers in "ok" condition
> But I feel the same way, $500-$550 is a bit much. Although I understand where the seller comes from, both he and I witnessed a web auction on a smaller Pioneer modell, end price was $650..
> So it is some kind of vintage hysteria going on, that's for sure.


 
   
  1. Most Swedes seem to be rich - haven't met a Swede in Asia yet who seems have an issue with money. One told me his boss lets him spend the entire Winter in Thailand playing golf, drinking and chasing women as long as he agrees to come back and work in the Northern Summer. I don't know anyone in Oz who has a boss like that .... mine have been complete SOBs. 
   
  2. You live in a country where people pay exorbitant amounts of income tax, and still enjoy one of the highest standards of living anywhere in the world. Like I said, rich. 
   
  trentino, I envy you your wealth, but the reality of living in a country like that is that _everyone wants more money for their time and effort_, and that inevitably flows through to hobbies. You can see something similar in Sydney and Melbourne, particularly when it comes to classic cars - old V8 models that sat around quietly rusting through most of the 70s and 80s fetch astronomical prices. Forget the cars - people pay serious money for vanity number plates that tell the world you are a complete knob.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Pick a motor sport - rallying, powerboats, drag racing - and chances are that there is a Swede with the biggest, baddest engine you've ever seen. In a country where gas prices are very high, that speaks volumes. Back in the 90s, there was a lot of hand-wringing in hot rod/classic car circles in the US - old barns were being completely emptied of their treasures - and the alleged culprits were the Swedes and the Japanese. Container loads of cars and parts were leaving ports on both coasts and sold at markups that would make your example above look like a total bargain.  Japan has 13 times the population of Sweden - for a 'small' country, you seem to have a lot of motor heads .....  I'm guessing you also have a lot of audiophiles and music lovers. 
   
  You just need to find a boss who accepts that some people are willing to work thru Winter if it means they can have their toys.


----------



## theRunawayV

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Beautiful 2252B!!! Love it! Your Dad got a great deal on that one!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you! What are you listening to? And I'm guessing vinyl?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





trentino said:


> Ok, thanks. I guess it's a bit different here. Smaller country I guess means a few less vintage receivers in "ok" condition
> But I feel the same way, $500-$550 is a bit much. Although I understand where the seller comes from, both he and I witnessed a web auction on a smaller Pioneer modell, end price was $650..
> So it is some kind of vintage hysteria going on, that's for sure.


 
   

 The 1010 is a fantastic receiver, but man that's expensive. I guess vintage gear fetch high prices in your country. I bought mine mint from the original owner for 165.00. But they do fetch far more than 165.00 though. I would say 300-400.00 is a fair price over here depending on condition. But the headphone out is crazy powerful. Even some k340 I had at the time would hiss without the -20 button engaged. But it is one very fine sounding receiver. It sounded really good with everything I plugged into it, and really excelled with the d7000 I had at the time(with -20db button engaged). And drove my he-6 effortlessly.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





therunawayv said:


> Thank you! What are you listening to? And I'm guessing vinyl?


 
   

 Ha! No vinyl, only lossless files ripped from CDs. Tonight it's One Cold Night, by Seether.  I do love me some acoustic rock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh, watch out for a guy named Skylab. He will recommend vintage receivers in glowing terms that will make you write checks until your wife gives you "The Look", indicating you have arrived on her last nerve.


----------



## Skylab

It's easy to describe vintage receivers in glowing terms, because they all glow


----------



## moodyrn

Ha, good one. But (the right ) vintage gear is glowing in both looks and sound. After directly comparing some of the vintage pieces I own(ed) to a few headphone amps ranging from 2000-3500.00, I've come to the conclusion that I'm done with dedicated headphone amps. They more than held their own. Not to say that the high end amps weren't worth the price. They all sounded simply amazing. But the gear I had was able to reach about 95% of their performance. With my marantz 2325, I had to go back and forth to discern the difference between it, and the dark star. The dark star is still the best I've heard with the he6, but the marantz is a very close second.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Ha, good one. But (the right ) vintage gear is glowing in both looks and sound. After directly comparing some of the vintage pieces I own(ed) to a few headphone amps ranging from 2000-3500.00, I've come to the conclusion that I'm done with dedicated headphone amps. They more than held their own. Not to say that the high end amps weren't worth the price. They all sounded simply amazing. But the gear I had was able to reach about 95% of their performance. With my marantz 2325, I had to go back and forth to discern the difference between it, and the dark star. *The dark star is still the best I've heard with the he6, but the marantz is a very close second.*


 
   
  +1


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Ha, good one. But (the right ) vintage gear is glowing in both looks and sound. After directly comparing some of the vintage pieces I own(ed) to a few headphone amps ranging from 2000-3500.00, I've come to the conclusion that I'm done with dedicated headphone amps. They more than held their own. Not to say that the high end amps weren't worth the price. They all sounded simply amazing. But the gear I had was able to reach about 95% of their performance. With my marantz 2325, I had to go back and forth to discern the difference between it, and the dark star. The dark star is still the best I've heard with the he6, but the marantz is a very close second.


 
   
  Its funny - before the Objective-2 arrived and so many people starting posting that they couldn't tell any difference between the O2 and their high-priced amps in a DBT, I would have considered your recommendation  a slam dunk for the Marantz. I'm now inclined to wonder if Marantz simply knew something about designing a headphone stage that its taken everyone else 30 years to cotton on to ...... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (btw, I take many of the O2 claims with a grain of salt - mine is perfectly functional but it doesn't lead me to making any wild claims re sonics. Expectation bias seems to work both ways)


----------



## moodyrn

The thing about the higher end vintage is, once you open them up you can be amazed at the design, parts used and build quality. It's something you will only see in really expensive modern day amps. I've had three vintage receivers to weigh over 50lbs, with the kenwood weighing close to 60lb. The power supplies are over built with massive transformers and caps. Absolutely no opamps anywhere with very high quality discrete output stages.
   
  I have a flagship home theater from onkyo that retails for nearly 3000.00 and is the most impressive home theater receiver I've listened to, and as massive as it is, it only weighs 56lbs. But that also includes 9 channels of amplification vs two for the high end vintages. The problem is, solid amps have been very watered down over the years. You can still get that type of quality and engineering, but it will cost you well into the four figures.
   
  Even budget vintage receivers/amps can sound very good because they have a similar design, but just isn't as overly built as the higher end vintage receivers/amps. But of course this is my opinion, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who shares this opinion. This thread is over 300.00 pages long, and is far the fotm phase. But there is a down side. Great values and finds can be found, but you are taking a risk. A lot of this gear may need to be repaired or refurbished since many are over 30 years old. But even if you have to invest in a refurb job, the end result is still more than worth it. With the exception of a couple of amps, I've always found my gear locally so I knew exactly what I was getting. And I think many here go that route as well.


----------



## trentino

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> 1. Most Swedes seem to be rich - haven't met a Swede in Asia yet who seems have an issue with money. One told me his boss lets him spend the entire Winter in Thailand playing golf, drinking and chasing women as long as he agrees to come back and work in the Northern Summer. I don't know anyone in Oz who has a boss like that .... mine have been complete SOBs.
> 
> 2. You live in a country where people pay exorbitant amounts of income tax, and still enjoy one of the highest standards of living anywhere in the world. Like I said, rich.
> 
> ...


 
   

 I don't know how to respond to this, haha. I see why you have like one zillion posts though 
  You may be right about Sweden being a wealthy country. But I'm not wealthy so I will continue to complain about the high price of vintage audio gear


----------



## trentino

moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That sounds great, really tempted to get it now. Whoa! $165? That is insane. Was this a few years back? Or did the seller not have a clue?


----------



## estreeter

Its easy to rack up 'one zillion' posts - you should see the others .....   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In my defence, I never quote a review, complete with a zillion photos, simply to put '+1' or something equally useless. I also avoid posting in Sound Science - that has to count for something. A couple of the mods have threatened me with literary castration, but who needs those guys anyway.


----------



## trentino

Yeah, I gotta get my posting action on  More of a reader than a poster I guess.
Estreteer, do you own a vintage receiver? Thinking about getting one?


----------



## estreeter

Getting* one *wouldn't be the hard part - stopping at one would ....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm moving to Asia in early 2014 and I wont be buying anything that heavy till then. I have to hold off on a few other things until I get settled in my new home, but thats life - anticipation is 90% of the fun.


----------



## trentino

Yup. They are so pretty it's hard not to buy more and more. I'm proud of myself for actually selling off one the other week


----------



## Skylab

One of the many things that continues to impress me about the SX-1980 is that it is one of the very last receivers made that is a completely discrete design throughout. In spite of its relative complexity - two phono inputs including adjustable loading, quartz lock FM tuner, dual-stage tone controls, etc etc - the 1980 does not use a single op-amp.


----------



## Rawrbington

how do you find out if they have opamps in them?  i've tried looking in the past and i see that they have a limited number of IC's but are opamps IC's?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





trentino said:


> That sounds great, really tempted to get it now. Whoa! $165? That is insane. Was this a few years back? Or did the seller not have a clue?


 
   
  Ha, it's was less than 2 years ago, probably closer to a year and a half. I think they did, but it had been sitting up in their cabinet for years unused. They just wanted to get rid of it. I felt a little bad leaving there with it for that price. But when I sold it, I only sold it for around 200.00. At the price I got it for it just wouldn't have seemed right to make money off of it(part of the 200.00 had to cover shipping)


----------



## palmfish

I equate vintage receivers to vintage cars. Cars from the 70's needed tune ups every 3000 miles, valves and carburators needed to be adjusted frequently, and the engines were heavy and required a lot of displacement to make decent power.
   
  A modern car, like an opamp, replaces all those old heavy and inefficient parts with something smaller, lighter, and much more reliable. A modern 4 cylinder engine makes more HP than a V8 from the 70's, gets 3X better gas mileage, will go 100,000 with nothing but oil changes. It's also more reliable, more compact and lighter weight.
   
  Vintage receivers, like vintage cars, offer a wonderful ownership experience and can perform very well, but they aren't for everyone. Like all old things of quality and beauty, they become legendary in status as memory fades about what a PITA they can be to own.
   
  Personally, I love them too. And like cars, they are probably a better investment than modern gear that depreciates in value as soon as you open the box.


----------



## Skylab

Ahhhh...but I think you stopped a little short in your analogy. Sure, you can buy a modern car that generates more HP from a smaller engine, needs less gas, and less maintenance. But...is it more fun to drive?


----------



## estreeter

As illustrated with my earlier pics, there is nothing stopping manufacturers building receivers that look like their vintage models - if it came to it, I'm sure they could approximate the sound signature with modern technology. Serious enthusiasts, though, will always want the real thing.
   

   

   
  In the 80s, when the first gas crisis really shook Americans up, the monsters above sat in backyards unloved and unsaleable. Fast forward to 2012 .....
   
   http://www.cars-on-line.com/47237.html
   
  In 20 years, who knows what someone will be wiliing to pay for a Marantz Model 2600 ?


----------



## Skylab

Given that a fully restored 2600 sold on eBay recently for $9,000, I wouldn't be surprised that one that like that could fetch $20K in 20 years.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ahhhh...but I think you stopped a little short in your analogy. Sure, you can buy a modern car that generates more HP from a smaller engine, needs less gas, and less maintenance. But...is it more fun to drive?


 
  Very true. That's why I don't own a modern car...


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It's easy to describe vintage receivers in glowing terms, because they all glow


 

 This is a great quote. I've always been captivated with my SX-40's display. The all green lights just lit up the night around it, I loved to just stare at it with the lights off. Fun stuff.


----------



## Skylab

I'm also not knocking modern gear. I own a lot of it. Although in a truly ironic situation, most of my vintage gear is solid state, and most of my modern gear is tube


----------



## scompton

I just received a Quadraflex Reference: 650FET R receiver.  Supposedly it's the first power mosfet receiver.  Sounds great.  The controls need deoxit.


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm also not knocking modern gear. I own a lot of it. Although in a truly ironic situation, most of my vintage gear is solid state, and most of my modern gear is tube


 

 You know, I really wouldn't have expected that. Lol.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





brownbear said:


> You know, I really wouldn't have expected that. Lol.


 

 It makes perfect sense to me.
   
  Vintage tube gear used tubes, not because they sounded pleasing, but because that's all that was available. Today, (quality) tube gear is well engineered and designed to sound/perform in a specific manner.


----------



## BrownBear

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> Vintage tube gear used tubes, not because they sounded pleasing, but because that's all that was available. Today, (quality) tube gear is well engineered and designed to sound/perform in a specific manner.


 
   


 Now that you put it that way, it does make sense to me too. I didn't think of it like that before.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I just received a Quadraflex Reference: 650FET R receiver.  Supposedly it's the first power mosfet receiver.  Sounds great.  The controls need deoxit.


 
  First time I heard this brand. I googled and found some info. Did you get it from ePay?
   
  Please let me know how it compares with Kyocera R-851(651?)!!
   
  BTW, does anyone have a list for receivers or amps with MOFET?


----------



## BrownBear

Here's the green display I was talking about. 
	

  Love looking at this.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm also not knocking modern gear. I own a lot of it. Although in a truly ironic situation, most of my vintage gear is solid state, and most of my modern gear is tube


 
   
  Makes perfect sense to me, Rob. At the risk of offending you and some of the other tube fans on Head-Fi, could it have anything to do with the fact that neither sounds like a CDP from 1990 ? Personally, I think thats a very, very good thing, but aren't there vintage receivers which DO use tube output stages ?  I'm increasingly interested in whether tube buffers between a digital source and a digital amp would have any effect on the end result - I'm weird like that.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> First time I heard this brand. I googled and found some info. Did you get it from ePay?
> 
> Please let me know how it compares with Kyocera R-851(651?)!!
> 
> BTW, does anyone have a list for receivers or amps with MOFET?


 
   
  Here's one from AK  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=173916


----------



## Majestyk

Regarding receivers with 2 headphone jacks...Can you use them at the same time (with the same sound quality) or does it depend on the receiver?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Here's one from AK  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=173916


 
  Thanks for the link!!
   
  I already know the thread on AK, I just don't believe all the claim, some even said Sansui G is MOSFET (may it has MOSFET on tuner, but not in output stage).  And their list is not accurate and complete also, I know not all Haflers are MOSFET, and ADA has some MOSFET amps too.
   
  I just hope someone with more knowledge than me has a list!!


----------



## Skylab

estreeter said:


> Makes perfect sense to me, Rob. At the risk of offending you and some of the other tube fans on Head-Fi, could it have anything to do with the fact that neither sounds like a CDP from 1990 ? Personally, I think thats a very, very good thing, but aren't there vintage receivers which DO use tube output stages ?  I'm increasingly interested in whether tube buffers between a digital source and a digital amp would have any effect on the end result - I'm weird like that.




Yes, you are right, and for sure no offense taken! 

There are vintage tube receivers, yes, but the tube era and the receiver era did not intersect all that much. There are lots of vintage great tube integrateds, like the Fishers that Moodyrn and I have, and the Scott that Scott just got, among others. In the tube era, separate tuners were much more common. 

I love my Fisher, but overall I do prefer the big Pioneer for use in the Man Cave. They're just different animals.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





majestyk said:


> Regarding receivers with 2 headphone jacks...Can you use them at the same time (with the same sound quality) or does it depend on the receiver?


 

 I briefly check Yamah CR-820 and Lafayett RS-9090 with my two k340 and one Q701, I found no difference with matched cans or mismatched cans or single pair of cans. But YMMV!!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yes, you are right, and for sure no offense taken!
> There are vintage tube receivers, yes, but the tube era and the receiver era did not intersect all that much. There are lots of vintage great tube integrateds, like the Fishers that Moodyrn and I have, and the Scott that Scott just got, among others. In the tube era, separate tuners were much more common.
> I love my Fisher, but overall I do prefer the big Pioneer for use in the Man Cave. They're just different animals.


 

 If my memory is correct, Skylab's stuff are mostly recapped (restored)!! Your vintage stuff may not sound well as his!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> If my memory is correct, Skylab's stuff are mostly recapped (restored)!! Your vintage stuff may not sound well as his!


 
   
  That is true.  I have either bought most of my vintage gear having been restored/recapped, or I had it done after buying it.  I am about to get the SX-1280 I bought pretty cheap back from a full recap/restore - can't wait to hear how it sounds.


----------



## Meewoo

Wow, congrats!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Could you do a shout out for SX-1010, 1250, and 1280 here?? I know your favorite is 1980, so I am not asking for 1980.
  Now you only need SX-3900 and D7000 to finish silver TOTL collection.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, I may forget SX-828 and SX-9000!


----------



## Skylab

I will for sure be able to offer some thoughts on the 1280 vs 1250 and 1010.  I am also interested myself in how close to the 1980 the 1280 comes.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> First time I heard this brand. I googled and found some info. Did you get it from ePay?
> 
> Please let me know how it compares with Kyocera R-851(651?)!!
> 
> BTW, does anyone have a list for receivers or amps with MOFET?


 
   
  Yep, got it off ePay.  It's slightly warmer than the Kyocera R-851, but not much.  It has less gain which is good since it doesn't have a -20dB muting switch.  I can't really listen to the Kyocera without the muting on. It also runs quite a bit cooler than the Kyocera.  Other than scratchy switches, I've only seen 2 minor problems.  There's a slight channel imbalance for the first couple of minutes, and that may be a switch that needs deoxit.  The light is out on the tuner.  It's black on black so it's a little difficult to see without the light.
   
  It picks up FM stations without an antenna and the frequencies are right on.  There's a little hiss at high volume with sensitive headphones, but none at full volume with my orthos and ECR-500.  
   
  It has a stepped pot.  Since I'm listening with the pot around 9 o'clock, I find that the ideal volume is between two steps.   That would be fixed with a muting switch.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> If my memory is correct, Skylab's stuff are mostly recapped (restored)!! Your vintage stuff may not sound well as his!


 
   
  Point taken, but I dont have the same objections to paying to have a receiver recapped that many seem to - of course, thats working on the assumption that its not going to cost me more than *a thousand dollars* for the receiver, shipping and the restoration.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My cheapskate ways aside, I just cant see one of these on my desktop as many have them currently - some of the Audiokarma guys even find room for a set of those monster 'bookshelves' (ha ! bookshelf my a@$# !) alongside their receiver - incredible. No, its the dreaded rack-in-the-living-room somewhere down the track - a spectacle I had hoped to avoid, Yet again, I blame Skylab.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  These receivers have 'obsession' plastered all over them - in a very nice retro font, of course.  I hate this hobby.


----------



## Skylab

It's costing me about $500 to have my SX-1280 completely restored.  That includes a 100% complete clean and lube, replacing EVERY electrolytic cap in the whole receiver, replacing the 4 large main filter caps (which had started to leak), replacing the known to be problematic protection relay, replacing the function indicator lamps with LEDs, adjusting DC offset and idle current, and aligning the FM tuner.  Once I get it back, it should outlast me


----------



## woody88

well guys, I am at a real dilemma. I ended up taking a shot, and bought a SX-1250 off ebay. Seller described as "good working condition, and some small scratches" after the seller charged $75 to ship it to me, it arrived at my doorstep. well, those are not some small scratches and it is not in good working condition. lots of deep scratches right on the top metal faceplate. and the sound is barely there, right channel is about 25% audible of the time. and forget the headphone output; it worked for like 3 seconds, then it just has a heavy reverb sound, like I am sitting at the last row of a concert hall.
   
  I took it apart briefly removing the top wood cabinet and metal plate on top, and it is very dirty. I did not want to took it apart further. Put it all back and took it to a local shop, which I think it's the only vintage repair shop in the city. It is running me a $40 bench fee before an actual repair bill can be made. And it is currently at a 4 weeks wait since the shop is backlogged. I am kind of pissed to say the least. But, to send it back, I would lose the $75 from the original shipping fee, plus more shipping on my end. if you guys were me, would you go through with the repair at the local shop, and wait it out? obviously by the time they can get to the repair, it would've been long gone on the ebay transaction date. I am hoping that it will not be a lot on the repair bill, and it will return to its former glory somewhat. But just wanted to see what you guys would do, if you're in my shoes. Such a bummer day to be honest.
   
  forget about the description of "good working condition", does this look like "some small scratches"?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I just received a Quadraflex Reference: 650FET R receiver.  Supposedly it's the first power mosfet receiver.  Sounds great.  The controls need deoxit.


 
   
  Perfect companion for your Kyocera and Realistic. And yes, DeoxIT is mandatory on this old Pacific Stereo house brand job. It's the only sliderule-dial receiver I know of with a MOSFET power amp. This thing isn't easy to find. I hope you got it cheap. Richard Schram of Parasound was responsible for spec'ing Pac Stereo's house brands. He wanted Fostex drivers in their Concept headphones and he put Heil tweeters in their speakers.
   
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> BTW, does anyone have a list for receivers or amps with MOFET? I already know the thread on AK, I just don't believe all the claim, some even said Sansui G is MOSFET (may it has MOSFET on tuner, but not in output stage).  And their list is not accurate and complete also, I know not all Haflers are MOSFET, and ADA has some MOSFET amps too. I just hope someone with more knowledge than me has a list!!


 
  I don't think anyone has made a formal list, but you're right, there are people on AK who can't tell a MOSFET antenna input transistor from a MOSFET power transistor. There's one guy who repeatedly claims his Mitsubishi MA01 amp is MOSFET, which would come as news to Mitsubishi. 
   
  On the other hand, if you know of a Hafler amp that doesn't use MOSFETs, please let me know which one.
   
  The list of non-AVR MOSFET-amp receivers is reasonably short. Making a list of all available power amps and integrateds would be a much bigger task, especially if price and obscurity and availability were no objects, or if we were going to include the pro-audio manufacturers like Ashly (correct spelling). Let me give it a try:
   
  Scompton's "Reference: 650FET R by Quadraflex". Has a midrange tone control with selectable turnover frequencies. Very useful.
   
  Kyocera's 1983 receiver line. R-451/651/851
   
  Radio Shack's STA-2200, made in their own Korean plant
   
  Luxman's R-361
   
  After these there are the usual claims which are contradicted by either manufacturer's brochures or schematics. Did I leave any out?


----------



## Skylab

Woody88, I would tell the seller that you feel his description was misleading, but that due to the cost of shipping, you want to get it fixed, and that you want him to cover the cost of the repair. Now, he may balk at this of course, but that would be what I would ask for. And then figure if he agrees to split the repair cost, you are still somewhat better than if you have to pay it all. 

Really also it depends what you paid to begin with. Did you get a bargain, or did you pay for what you expected was a pristine unit?


----------



## Lou Erickson

I hate it when something that's described well on ebay shows up in way less good condition.
   
  Was it packed properly, or is this shipping damage?
   
  Are you willing to keep it if it worked, new scratches and all?
   
  I've discussed this with sellers, and often been able to come to the arrangement of a partial refund, so no one has to mess around with shipping heavy, broken gear back.  I then have it fixed and spend about what I wanted to spend.
   
  It's a hassle, though.
   
  (I really was unhappy with the idiot who shipped my Marantz 6300 TT.)


----------



## woody88

guys, out the door cost to me was at $525. it was $450 with buy it now, and $75 for the shipping. I would not consider this as a bargain, especially compared to the price you paid Skylab, if I remembered correctly from this thread. But with all the latest increased in prices of the SX-1250, I thought it was a so so price, as long as I do not have to do a lot of work, and can listen to speakers and headphones. Cause after all, "good working condition" is just that, good and working  and it is not working properly, to say the least.
   
  Lou, this was not shipping damage. the seller used an almost exact dimension cardboard box, as the receiver, then packed it in. when I opened the inner box, it was so tight, I have to cut into the box at the bottom left corner where the heatsinks are, in order to get the receiver out. It was not the best packing job, but it was double boxed and it had hard foams, on the outer box. One other thing that was deceiving to me, was the only photo that was on the ebay listing. the picture was taken against the sun, which made any visible problems hard to spot.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/120903063323?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
   
  if you were looking at that photo, you would believe that perhaps it was "some small scratches" too, I believe.
   
  and skylab, I don't know if I'd keep it, with all the scratches. really some small scratches I can tolerate, but I hate to say it, this SX looks pretty beat up to me, as far as scratches go. that is why I am so torn


----------



## Rawrbington

i like how he took the picture so that the glare would cover up those scratches.  what a jerk.
   
  im fairly pissed off at ebay sellers myself right now.
   
  paid 75$ for a replacement rearview mirror for my car.
   
  dude conveniently forgot to mention that the plastic frame holding in the glass was broken.   come on, if we had known about these issues we wouldn't have bought it in the first place!


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Perfect companion for your Kyocera and Realistic. And yes, DeoxIT is mandatory on this old Pacific Stereo house brand job. It's the only sliderule-dial receiver I know of with a MOSFET power amp. This thing isn't easy to find. I hope you got it cheap. Richard Schram of Parasound was responsible for spec'ing Pac Stereo's house brands. He wanted Fostex drivers in their Concept headphones and he put Heil tweeters in their speakers.


 
   
   
  $145 shipped, which is more than I've spent before, but I was intrigued. Unlike the SX-1250 above, it was extremely well packed. Double boxed with peanuts in between. The inner box was the original box.
   
   


> I don't think anyone has made a formal list, but you're right, there are people on AK who can't tell a MOSFET antenna input transistor from a MOSFET power transistor. There's one guy who repeatedly claims his Mitsubishi MA01 amp is MOSFET, which would come as news to Mitsubishi.
> 
> On the other hand, if you know of a Hafler amp that doesn't use MOSFETs, please let me know which one.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What about Hitachi and Nikko Alpha? I've always like the look of the Hitachi amps


----------



## woody88

the more I am thinking about this, the more pissed off I get. It is one thing to lie about the scratches, but an entirely different matter to say "good working condition" when it is clearly not. 
   
  and since the repair shop has the receiver now, but may not be able to get to it until 3 or 4 weeks from now, the more I think about the whole thing, the more I wanted to just take the receiver back from the shop, and not let them do any work and open a paypal dispute to return this. This reminds me another time when I bought a used blu ray player and seller said that it was 100% working and no returns. When I got it, it cannot even read any blu ray discs at all. I made a dispute and had to return the player back and lost some money of course, shipping it back on my dime, but when it comes to refund, the seller had to refund the entire purchase back then, shipping included. So I think if I open a dispute, I can get my entire amount, but it is just a hassle. so much hassle. but I just can't take it on the principle of it. I am sure that I will be out $60-70 shipping this back, but I just don't like to be taken like this by dishonest sellers.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





scompton said:


> What about Hitachi and Nikko Alpha? I've always like the look of the Hitachi amps


 
   
  Me too. It's just that there were tons of MOSFET power amps (and not that many integrateds, but still), so many that it would be a chore to list them all. Receivers is basically what this thread's about anyway, so I took the easy way out.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I would say that $450 is a good price for a 1250 in nice condition, and not a good price for one that is beat up and doesn't work. Since you already coughed up the bench fee for the tech, find out what the repair cost will be - you've already paid to find out, so do that anyway. If he is just getting it working, and not doing a full restore, my guess is you are out the door for $200 or less. But then you have to decide (before you o ahead with the repair) how you feel about the cosmetics. The biggest issue there is the resale value. The wood can be fixed up or replaced, but the metal is tougher, although you will see faceplates on eBay from time to time.

Anyway I hope all that helps in some small way.

EDIT: just saw your most recent post. That might indeed just be for the best. You should open the case anyway, for sure, to force the seller to take some action.


----------



## Rawrbington

first do not open a pay pal dispute.
  Open an EBAY Buyer Protection case.
   
  These are MUCH MUCH MUCH more effective.
   
  ebay WILL back you.  100% no doubt about it.
   
  they might even refund part or all of the original shipping.
   
  i've had to use it on a phone i bought once where the seller lied about the condition.
   
  i got my money + shipping refunded and then ebay provided the return shipping label free.
  and it took less than 48 hours


----------



## woody88

Hi rawbrington,
   
  my last problem with the blu ray player was through buyer protection, and for that case, I got my entire purchase amount back, including the original shipping. but I had to pay to get it shipped back to the seller. I just looked at the policy again on buyer protection, and it said step 1 to contact seller. But to be honest, I am just inclined to send it back and make him eat his original shipping too. Should I even contact him at all, or go straight to filing buyer protection with customer service?
   
  skylab, part of the reason of the purchase, was to keep it and perhaps some day to sell it, if I ever get tired of it. I am not one who just buy and flip it. I buy it for my own enjoyment. with its current condition, it just seemed like a lot of work to buy another faceplate. if you click on the picture to see it more closely, you would see that the brown metal top plate is damaged too. it is towards the rear right corner, does not look pretty. and towards the front of the top metal cover plate, it looks like it was damaged too, as it is bent. again, this is not from shipping damage, as the receiver was sitting in the innerbox so tight that nothing was being moved, althouh it did bend the outer 2 push levers, power and the muting switch perhaps if I recall correctly, slightly inward, since it was packed SO tight in the inner box.
   
  since the repair shop would take 3 to 4 weeks just to look at it, they have not even begin any work yet, that is why I am slightly inclined to see if I can maybe pick it up on Saturday and see if they would refund me the bench fee, perhaps take a smaller fee, as nothing would've been done at all, and then take it straight to fedex or something to ship it back, assuming I would have straighten out the buyer protection deal by then.......


----------



## palmfish

I would contact the seller first and try to resolve it. I'm guessing the seller will tell you to pound sand (with 3 transactions in 6 years, he has no incentive to do the right thing). The next step is to open a dispute with eBay. Their buyer protection program is designed for cases like this. 

It seems to me this seller knowingly misrepresented this item. Don't let him get away with it.


----------



## woody88

step 1 has been taken; I contacted the seller, and just stated the facts and left the emotional part out of it. I am asking for full refund from him, and if that is a go (hopefully, but I have doubts, and feel that I may have to get buyer protection program representatives involved), I may even contact ebay further about my return shipping back to the seller. We shall see what happens. Thanks for everybody's input and feedback. I hope it works out in the end, and I hope the repair shop will let me get it back and take a smaller fee than $40 since they would not have even gotten a chance to open her up yet....


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Me too. It's just that there were tons of MOSFET power amps (and not that many integrateds, but still), so many that it would be a chore to list them all. Receivers is basically what this thread's about anyway, so I took the easy way out.


 
   
  Quote: 





wualta said:


> *On the other hand, if you know of a Hafler amp that doesn't use MOSFETs, please let me know which one.*
> 
> The list of non-AVR MOSFET-amp receivers is reasonably short. Making a list of all available power amps and integrateds would be a much bigger task, especially if price and obscurity and availability were no objects, or if we were going to include the pro-audio manufacturers like Ashly (correct spelling). Let me give it a try:
> 
> ...


 
  Your inputs are mostly welcomed!! I was hoping you could chime in for this topics!!
   
  Yes, you are right, I checked Hafler website carefully, and all their amps are MOSFET. I always though DH200 is not MOSFET since it's from 1979. But I was wrong, it's "first American production amplifier to use complementary MOSFETs in its output stage." I thought Hafler SExxx were not MOSFET too, but I am wrong about it.
   
  Are later Kyocera R-x61 MOSFET? How about their A-x10 integrated amps?
  Are all Nikko Alpha MOSFET?
  Also, do you think HK PM665 is MOSFET? I saw it was mosfet on line but couldn't confirm it.
   
  After reading scompton's Quadraflex Reference yesterday, I won an auction for Pioneer Elite VSX-95 receiver which (according to AKer) is MOSFET one.
   
  As always, your knowledge is priceless!!


----------



## estreeter

I dunno - I just assume that a large percentage of the private sellers on E-Bay are shonks, particularly when it comes to anything 'vintage'. Such an easy money-maker - dragging something out of a garage sale for 50 bucks and taking a few strategic pics. E-Bay is notorious for fake jewelry - numerous warnings out there from genuine gold shops. These people dont seem to have anything resembling a conscience. 
   
  I work on the assumption that dealers have a  reputation to protect - might be naive, but there you go. We've had a few high profile cases of 'good dealer gone bad' on Head-Fi over the years, but they are by far in the minority - contrast that with reports of MoTs refusing to send out review samples because they weren't being sent back at the end of the review period (way to ruin it for everyone else), and Rob loaning his RSA Hornet to a lowlife Head-Fier who didnt bother sending it back. Some really tragic individuals out there.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm going to say a little prayer tonight - by next week, our E-Bay pirate should notice his genitals shrinking and hair sprouting from his ears.Should be a real hit with the ladies come Summer.


----------



## Majestyk

You have to be very careful with sellers on ebay who have never sold before.  This guy has no seller feedback at all.  When I come up against sellers like this I ask lots of questions...Particularly when there isn't much in the way of photography or information in the description.  I bet this guy doesn't even know about seller protection and just tried to rip someone off.


----------



## manveru

^^Yeah, you have to be careful. That was a pretty suspicious looking listing if you ask me. I usually just pass on those even though they can be tempting.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Are later Kyocera R-x61 MOSFET?
> 
> How about their A-x10 integrated amps?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sort of. Regular power transistors  (aka BJTs) in the output stage, but the _driver_ stage just before that uses MOSFETs. Some people think that gives you the best of both worlds. I'm skeptical until I hear one myself.
   
  Same as above, from what little info I can scratch together.  So rare I don't expect ever to see one.
   
  No. The Alpha III is the only one I know of.
   
  It's not. I was puzzled when I saw that owner's reference to his H/K because I'd never known H/K to use MOSFETs in anything, so I got hold of the service manual. The only FETs in the PM665 are small-signal ones. The output transistors are definitely BJTs.
   
  Aha! I've been trying to find one of the Pioneer Elite AVRs with MOSFET outputs for a reasonable price. Then I can join the _My Little Pionny_ club myself and see whether something with new-age MOSFETs measures up to the old stuff, but you got there first. Let us know, won't you? 
   
   
  There's a surprising amount of confusion-- not a whole lot, but enough to be disturbing-- related to whether certain pieces of gear have certain parts in them.


----------



## Rawrbington

well speaking of getting screwed...
  i had purchased a marantz 2250b on Sunday off a guy on another audio classified.  it was located in Canada, and im starting to wonder if I got scammed. 
   
  I spoke to him on the phone 3 different times, communicated through email as well and I even got his address.
  In speaking with him on the phone I had confidence that it wasn't a scam because he actually knew what he was talking about, had recapped the power supply and amp section. 
   
  he told me he would ship it Tuesday and send me tracking via email.  I still haven't heard anything and when i call the number back it goes straight to the "the customer you are calling is unavailable."  message
   
  I think I'll give it till monday and if i still haven't heard anything i guess im screwed.
   
  i paid with paypal.  Not as a gift. 
  i just don't have a lot of faith that paypal will get anything done if I did get scammed.
   
  hopefully this all works out ok
  but im starting to worry


----------



## Majestyk

^  If you don't mind saying, what audio classified is it and where (city) in Canada is he from?


----------



## Rawrbington

I actually just got ahold of him by phone.  He said he didn't get it shipped until today, but that he would email me the tracking this evening.
   
  makes me feel a lot better.


----------



## Majestyk

Cool!  I was going to add that if he happened to live in the greater Vancouver area, I could help out.   Anyway, that's good that it has seemingly worked out.
   
  I remember years ago buying a watch from a guy in Russia, before Russians were on ebay and could use paypal.  I had to convert my money to gold in order to pay and really wasn't sure what the outcome was going to be.  But there was a strategy that I used to help alleviate my concerns.  I asked the guy if he had any other watches that were just like this particular one.  His answer was NO.  So that suggested to me that if he was going to rip me off, he would have tried to get more money from me.  
   
  In future, if you're not sure about a long distance sale, ask the seller if he has another receiver (or whatever) just like the one you're buying, that he could sell you.  Chances are he will not and his answer should be "no".


----------



## Pudu

majestyk said:


> ... I had to convert my money to gold in order to pay and really wasn't sure what the outcome was going to be.  ...





 :eek:


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I actually just got ahold of him by phone.  He said he didn't get it shipped until today, but that he would email me the tracking this evening.
> 
> makes me feel a lot better.


 

 good to know he got back to you Rawbington. hope it all goes well for you.
   
  as for me, so far no reply from the seller. can't say that I am surprised. I figured I'd give him 3 full days til Saturday night before I contact him again. And if he still does not reply after the 2nd email, that is when I will check in with ebay buyer protection. I did speak with the repair shop and obviously no work was done, since they told me it would be 3 to 4 weeks before they can even look into it. I explained my situation to them and telling them I am inclined now to just return the whole thing, and the repair shop guys said I can pick it up and they would refund the $40 bench fee as no work was done...


----------



## Rawrbington

that is a good idea.
   
  there was a lot to our conversations that made me think it was a genuine transaction.  we haggled a little on the price, which a scammer probably would have taken my initial offer since it wasn't a lowball.  and then there is the model and his knowledge of it, which a scammer probably wouldn't know and details of the shipping process, and packaging.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> good to know he got back to you Rawbington. hope it all goes well for you.
> 
> as for me, so far no reply from the seller. can't say that I am surprised. I figured I'd give him 3 full days til Saturday night before I contact him again. And if he still does not reply after the 2nd email, that is when I will check in with ebay buyer protection. I did speak with the repair shop and obviously no work was done, since they told me it would be 3 to 4 weeks before they can even look into it. I explained my situation to them and telling them I am inclined now to just return the whole thing, and the repair shop guys said I can pick it up and they would refund the $40 bench fee as no work was done...


 
  open the ebay case and leave negative feedback I got the sx650 through the buyer protection and got all the money back except shipping cost. They back you quickly. They will send you return shipping too as it was not properly described you win the case hands down. Once you leave the feedback he willl call


----------



## estreeter

We should have a sticky on Head-Fi where BMs can discuss issues they have had with online purchases, be they from dealers or individuals. I suspect that some MoTs have some horror stories of their own, and I'd be particularly keen to see complaints about a given _carrier_ centralised, Here in Oz, we have had packages completely disappear en route to the recipient and our national carrier is the worst offender.


----------



## MohawkUS

frank i said:


> open the ebay case and leave negative feedback I got the sx650 through the buyer protection and got all the money back except shipping cost. They back you quickly. They will send you return shipping too as it was not properly described you win the case hands down. Once you leave the feedback he willl call




 Not necessarily. I must have caught ebay CS on a bad day because I had a seller admitting to me after the sale that his ad was misleading. It was on a graphics card said to be in perfect condition, but it only ran like an hour before it overheated and crashed and I've got a ton of fans in my case. Ebay CS refused to help me at all and told me just to get over it, the seller offered to buy me a fan for $10 so I could jury-rig it onto the card. I declined because I already have a ton of fans laying around, unfortunatly I never got it resolved so I have to watch the temperature of the card like a hawk whenever I'm putting much stress on it at all. It's a Radeon 6850 so its powerful enough I don't accidentally stress it at least. Could just be that I kind of went on and on about what was wrong with the card, keep your complaint simple and civil and you should be fine. 

 Anyway I didn't stop in here just to be a bearer of bad news, I was wondering how you'd identify if a vintage receiver is in need of a re-cap or not. I'm running a low-mid range Sherwood from 74' and the only work it's seen was a dusting and a replacement for the lights. I have no idea how much use it's seen, but I have a few minor problems with it that I'm pretty sure deoxit won't fix. I can't be sure if the receiver is the problem or not. My main problem is that when I don't listen for a while either the left or right channel gets really quiet until I play something loud through it; I usually use the Windows sound test. I'm using STAX headphones through a transformer box and STAX need to stay permanently charged so it could be that as well. Also the sound quality isn't consistent, it sounds better the longer it's been playing, it gets more full bodied and dynamic, and less edgy by the third album or so assuming I'm listening back to back but again if the STAX are de-charging that could be the problem as well. How much would a re-cap for a low end Sherwood be anyway? I've seen $250 quoted in here for a high end Pioneer, but I'm not sure if it's a consistent price or depends on the model. I haven't opened it up but I've heard the Sherwoods can be a pain to work on, having multiple layers of PCBs and such.


----------



## Pudu

I went to look at a local 2285b tonight and it had serious buzzing on both channels which I assume meant bad caps. I'm hoping to pick something up locally in the next short while and currently my choices are a 2275, sx-950, sx-980, and sx-1010. 

Does anyone have any insight or opinion on these choices they'd care to share? 

Cheers


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> *It's costing me about $500 to have my SX-1280 completely restored*.  That includes a 100% complete clean and lube, replacing EVERY electrolytic cap in the whole receiver, replacing the 4 large main filter caps (which had started to leak), replacing the known to be problematic protection relay, replacing the function indicator lamps with LEDs, adjusting DC offset and idle current, and aligning the FM tuner.  Once I get it back, it should outlast me


 
   
  (Bolding is mine - apologiies to Rob)
   
*I wish that was a sticky* - so many people, myself included, wonder what it would cost to have a receiver refurbished (assuming the key internals are working - I dont even know if you can *get* replacement transformers ... the iron is reportedly the single most expensive part of any amp). If I could have a receiver shipped to me for 1-1.2K all up, knowing that all of the above had been taken care of, that would be preferable to playing Ebay Roulette. I read somewhere that you can expect to pay more for the Marantz models simply because they have so many parts - I'll let someone else answer that - but obviously the _$500_ figure will vary from model to model. I'll still take ballpark over 'who the hell knows ?'  ....
   
  I know thats a significant chunk of change, but if I was going to go down this road I figure I might as well have something that works.


----------



## MohawkUS

estreeter said:


> (Bolding is mine - apologiies to Rob)
> 
> *I wish that was a sticky* - so many people, myself included, wonder what it would cost to have a receiver refurbished (assuming the key internals are working - I dont even know if you can *get* replacement transformers ... the iron is reportedly the single most expensive part of any amp). If I could have a receiver shipped to me for 1-1.2K all up, knowing that all of the above had been taken care of, that would be preferable to playing Ebay Roulette. I read somewhere that you can expect to pay more for the Marantz models simply because they have so many parts - I'll let someone else answer that - but obviously the _$500_ figure will vary from model to model. I'll still take ballpark over 'who the hell knows ?'  ....
> 
> I know thats a significant chunk of change, but if I was going to go down this road I figure I might as well have something that works.




I could get a TOTL Sherwood(they aren't very popular) that's been fully restored for that price. I asked the guy at Classic Audio about it but he refuses to work on Sherwoods as he gets enough business with more popular brands. I'm mainly wondering if my reciever is at fault for my problems or not. I'm new to vintage gear and electrostats so it could just be me being ignorant.  Either way, I've gotten my $40 worth out of it already, I seem to have pretty good luck with 'ebay roulette' with audio gear at least, I've had a few close calls and been scammed once with computer parts.


----------



## estreeter

Relax, guys - there is absolutely no chance of anyone becoming obsessed with vintage receivers .......  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   
  Love the suit, man 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  (something distinctly weird about that photo - appears to be a very tall man transposed on to a photo of a chair and some receivers, pre-Photoshop. He seems to be 'levitating' roughly 8 inches above the actual seat - who would go to that much trouble ?)


----------



## wotts

I don't recall if I shared this or not, but hey, we loves us some pictures! Here is the 2265B and HPM-100s doing their thing in the bedroom. Also pictured are the Squeezebox Touch, Sansui RA-500, Valhalla and my ß22.
   
  w/ flash

   
  w/o flash


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Relax, guys - there is absolutely no chance of anyone becoming obsessed with vintage receivers .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  He's just sitting on a stack of vinyl


----------



## scompton

It's a Stereo Review cover
   
   
  Quote: 





> The pic is from the cover of the May 1978 issue of Stereo Review Magazine showing some of the Monster Receivers together (from top to bottom they are the Nikko NR-1415, Hitachi SR-2004, Kenwood KR-9600, Marantz 2600, Rotel RX-1603 and Pioneer SX-1980). Notable absences are the Concept 16.5, Sansui G-9000, Akai AA-1120 and the Technics SA-1000.


 
   
  from http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?75731-late-1980-s-receivers


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Aha! I've been trying to find one of the Pioneer Elite AVRs with MOSFET outputs for a reasonable price. Then I can join the _My Little Pionny_ club myself and see whether something with new-age MOSFETs measures up to the old stuff, but you got there first. Let us know, won't you?


 
  I can't confirm Pioneer Elite VSX-95 is MOSFET or not. The output transisters are two pairs of MSC3281 and MSA1302, could you help confirm it?
   
  I pulled out my Kyocera R-851 and Pioneer SX-D7000 and did a brief a/b comparison. The source is Cambridge Audio Azur 640D. The interconnectors are some audio quest RCA cables, source were connected to VSX-95, then tape out to R-851, then to D7000. I listened them with Q-701 with tone defeated. 
  Among all three receivers, R-851 is warmest, followed by VSX-95, then D-7000. 2-d soundstage, D-7000 is the widest, followed by VSX-95, then R-851. In 3-d soundstage, R-851 has more depth, followed by 95, then D-7000. And I feel the R-851 has more natural and beautiful soundstage, then D-7000, then VSX-95. R-851 is softest in sound, then VSX-95, then D-7000. But D-7000 seems to have more guts even in the same volume ( I tried to keep them at the same volume). So if I listen to Jazz or classic, I may prefer R-851. For rock and rap, I may prefer D-7000. But VSX-95 is very robust receiver too, its high is more sparky then r-851, but not edgy as D-7000. Actually, there are very tiny difference between R-851 and VSX-95. If I didn't a/b test and changed phone plug quickly, I won't tell the difference. But the difference with D-7000 can be easily told.
  BTW, VSX-95 can drive my K-340 with no sweat too. I don't know it uses op-amp or not, but it's good for headphone too.


----------



## wualta

My mistake-- the VSX-95 is an *early* Elite Pi-Pi (my own babytalk name for "Pioneer"). Those output transistors aren't MOSFETs-- any complementary pair with "SC" and "SA" in the name is a bipolar pair. Which doesn't mean it doesn't sound good-- bipolar tech has been moving forward all the while. In fact, it's likely that the "non-switching" circuitry in your D7000 was no longer necessary by the time the VSX-95 came along.
   
  But I found the AK thread where guys were claiming that everything they had, including the wastebaskets, had MOSFETs, even showing photos of the clearly-not-MOSFET output transistors. Facepalm. So yeah, ya gotta be careful.
   
  You won't believe this, but people do get plain-nutty ideas about their gear from time to time. That's a secret. Don't tell nobody. ...Now, if you're nutty _and you know it_, clap your hands. 
   
  Pioneer made an Elite integrated amp, the A-35R, with MOSFETs. The Pioneer Elite AVRs with MOSFET outputs (according to Pioneer's website) are the VSX-26/35/36/37/43/47/49/52/53/54/  TX, and there's a 56TXi too. There are probably a lot more. I gave up looking after finding those.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> My mistake-- the VSX-95 is an *early* Elite Pi-Pi (my own babytalk name for "Pioneer"). Those output transistors aren't MOSFETs-- any complementary pair with "SC" and "SA" in the name is a bipolar pair. Which doesn't mean it doesn't sound good-- bipolar tech has been moving forward all the while. In fact, it's likely that the "non-switching" circuitry in your D7000 was no longer necessary by the time the VSX-95 came along.
> 
> But I found the AK thread where guys were claiming that everything they had, including the wastebaskets, had MOSFETs, even showing photos of the clearly-not-MOSFET output transistors. Facepalm. So yeah, ya gotta be careful.
> 
> ...


 

 Bammer , I thought that guy knows stuff since he also claimed sherwood R-300 is MOSFET with pictures. Now I checked the transisters of R-300, nowhere to tell they are MOSFET. Come on, no one in AK correct him. It's really misleading!!
  Now I have a Pioneer receiver with first Elite name but not MOSFET. Though it sounds nice and looks good, but not what I really want.
  And really appreciate your knowledge!! Could I say:I love U?


----------



## estreeter

Isnt 'Sherwood' a Ukrainian word for 'crap' ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  OK, Ok - I know they weren't always the purveyors of nasty low-fi gear as they are today. The difference is that most of the others managed to turn their fortunes around or disappeared completely before someone could walk into Wal-Mart and cringe when they saw the name of a once-great marque stuck on some Taiwanese plastic fantastic. Sansui and Technics are better off in a grave with a nice headstone. RIP. 
   
  Its actually kinder to kill off a brand cleanly than watch them suffer. 
   
   
 _Since 2004, however, Sony seemingly began rolling back its support for the Aiwa brand, and by 2005 Aiwa products remained on sale in only selected territories around the globe. In 2006, Aiwa products were discontinued and no longer sold in the market._

 _As of September 2011, the Aiwa website still existed to provide customer-support telephone numbers for some territories and regions, but it also contained many broken links and blank pages. In other regions, such as Europe, it redirected to a page on the Sony website stating that the Aiwa website had closed. The last apparent update to the website was in June 2008._


----------



## obobskivich

Actually, Sherwood had a flagship receiver a few years ago that was pretty innovative - not entirely sure what happened with it though. It was in Stereophile a few years back. 

Anyways, in terms of "vintage" equipment that I have:

Technics SA-290 through inheritance. Needs cleaning.
Kenwood KM-205 amplifier (which I'm using to drive hps now); I have the rest of the system this came out of, but no use for any of it. 
JVC PC-R11 (and it's matching tape deck) - neat little shelf system, and the speaker drivers are great in an open-baffle configuration (nice ceramic drivers). 
and I guess you could consider the ESP/10 system as vintage too, but it's not really a receiver. Old enough though.

Got some assorted speakers from the 1970s and 1980s too.


----------



## estreeter

Isnt 'Stereophile' a Navajo word for 'crap journalism' ?   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (ok, I like Wes Phillips and John Atkinson, but I agree with others that they are beholden to their advertisers. TAS ? Who knows, but they all have to make payroll).


----------



## obobskivich

estreeter said:


> Isnt 'Stereophile' a Navajo word for 'crap journalism' ?
> 
> (ok, I like Wes Phillips and John Atkinson, but I agree with others that they are beholden to their advertisers. TAS ? Who knows, but they all have to make payroll).




I'll keep my thoughts on Stereophile to myself (if you don't have anything nice to say...), but it was more along the lines of "the religious authorities accepted it" kind of thing. Sherwood is the front-brand for some ODM if memory serves; so their products tend to be hit or miss. 

http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/music_in_the_round_42/index.html
http://www.hometheater.com/receivers/sherwood_newcastle_r-972_av_receiver/

Two InterLink publications have actually reviewed it. 

My biggest gripe is the amplifier section - Trinnov is fairly smart (supposedly the newest version of DCAC is up to par, but I've yet to see it hit the 'states) and the rest of the unit seems quite competent as well.


----------



## MohawkUS

estreeter said:


> Isnt 'Sherwood' a Ukrainian word for 'crap' ?  :veryevil:
> 
> OK, Ok - I know they weren't always the purveyors of nasty low-fi gear as they are today. The difference is that most of the others managed to turn their fortunes around or disappeared completely before someone could walk into Wal-Mart and cringe when they saw the name of a once-great marque stuck on some Taiwanese plastic fantastic. Sansui and Technics are better off in a grave with a nice headstone. RIP.
> 
> ...




haha, I guess I deserved that. I was in a bit of a nasty mood last night, you'll have to excuse me if it came out in my post.  It's a bit sad what's come of most of the big audio brands today, but fortunately there are still enough of the oldies going around for all of us. I should probably just get a new receiver instead of trying to get it fixed. I've seen some really nice Sherwoods hanging around ebay for $100-200. No where near as powerful as the big Japanese amps but plenty for my headphones and I think I prefer the sound of the US made stuff anyway. Despite being a fan of vintage gear, I'm not much for the 'warm and smooth' vintage sound. The Sherwood hints at it, but I wouldn't want it any warmer.

Would it be safe to say that old caps could be causing the channel imbalance and sibilance? When the music gets busy it's almost like there is a glare over everything. I thought the obvious signs were a channel imbalance and a lack of volume. No problems like that though, I could easily go deaf if I wanted to.


----------



## estreeter

Once again, we see a brand prepared to invest money in HT but continue to fob the 2-channel brigade off with gear that would have been best left on the docks. Onkyo are another brand with the same cynical approach to 'stereo fidelity'. Some of the junk wearing Sherwood badges (plastic badges, no less) would have the early engineers rolling in their graves. They should all have a bargain-basement brand for these offerings - your average K-Mart customer isnt going to care anyway.


----------



## obobskivich

mohawkus said:


> haha, I guess I deserved that. I was in a bit of a nasty mood last night, you'll have to excuse me if it came out in my post.  It's a bit sad what's come of most of the big audio brands today, but fortunately there are still enough of the oldies going around for all of us. I should probably just get a new receiver instead of trying to get it fixed. I've seen some really nice Sherwoods hanging around ebay for $100-200. No where near as powerful as the big Japanese amps but plenty for my headphones and I think I prefer the sound of the US made stuff anyway. Despite being a fan of vintage gear, I'm not much for the 'warm and smooth' vintage sound. The Sherwood hints at it, but I wouldn't want it any warmer.
> Would it be safe to say that old caps could be causing the channel imbalance and sibilance? When the music gets busy it's almost like there is a glare over everything. I thought the obvious signs were a channel imbalance and a lack of volume. No problems like that though, I could easily go deaf if I wanted to.




Old caps and bad mechanical bits would be a fair place to start. Even in perfect working order I'm not sure how good the channel tracking would be. Just the reality of the time and the technology. 

Entropy at work. 




estreeter said:


> Once again, we see a brand prepared to invest money in HT but continue to fob the 2-channel brigade off with gear that would have been best left on the docks. Onkyo are another brand with the same cynical approach to 'stereo fidelity'. Some of the junk wearing Sherwood badges (plastic badges, no less) would have the early engineers rolling in their graves




Eh? How do you figure - the mythos that says anything branded "HT" is inherently flawed is just that; mythos. It's rooted in the same religious fanaticism that champions $20,000 cables and magical rocks as cure-all solutions to acoustic problems or speaker deficiencies. The current products are still the result of serious engineering, and depending on what we're talking about, are entirely capable. 

Sure, there were some real brutes put out back in the 1970s and 1980s; the Technics SE-A1 is a great example (now go find me one, ha!), but the mantra that "vintage" is inherently superior due to some sort of "they don't make'em like they used to" belief system is usually flawed. Only the good stuff is remembered. On average, equipment quality has gone UP over the last 40 years. That doesn't mean you can't find cheap seats if you look for them; they existed "in the day" too.


----------



## estreeter

You misunderstand part of my post - I meant the early engineers at Sherwood, but I disagree with you on the HT front. Yes, you can get good 2-channel sound from an AV receiver, but not at the entry level, and that is where many of us start looking when we stagger into this crazy 'hobbsession' - my old Yamaha AV receiver was easily shaded by the cheapest 2-channel amp CA had at the time, the mighty CA 340 SE. I miss that little amp, but I dont miss the Yamaha receiver. 
   
  FWIW, I believe Denon has a couple of current model receivers which garner favourable reviews for their ability to render both music and movies at reasonable cost - from memory, the cheapest was about 800 AUD last time I cared enough to check.


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Wow, congrats!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, don't forget the SX-9000!  I stumbled over a nearly mint condition SX-9000 on Craigslist for $95.00.  Plugged it in and promptly melted into the floor.
  It is a warmer sounding SX-1250, but nearly as detailed.  Works quite well with AKG 702 and on female jazz/acoustic/piano tracks, with ATH AD2k.
   
  I also picked up a mint condition Marantz 5030 tape deck, choosing it over an equally pristine Marantz 5200.  $230 took it home.  I love the orange/red VU meter display contrasting with the blue lights....running through 2275 receiver....  Old Dead tapes from the 70's and 80's are getting some love after all.


----------



## Majestyk

I have a Sherwood Newcastle (AM-9080) 5 channel AMP for my home theater setup.  It replaced a Parasound, many years ago, and it just kicked ass over it.  I wouldn't give this amp up for anything under $1000...Well probably more than that.


----------



## nick n

Realistic Modulaire I think from around '71. Excellent unit and only $5 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Flawless cabinet. Retired from the bedroom headphone setup and running the tv/dvd player with the Wharfedale Denton bookshelf speakers. looks great at night I love the off white lighting, especially the High Fidelity part.
   A friend waiting to go on a long trip for an overhaul beside that.  Camera flash ruins the shots but it's dark in here at the moment.


----------



## monoethylene

How is the Heathkit concerning the phono stage??


----------



## monoethylene

My latest


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> My latest


 
   
   
  OMG I wish my cabinet looked that good on my 2265B!!!
   
  I picked up a 2230 today, Needs some TLC, but I'm the second owner! Looking to do the recap myself.


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks a lot even though the WC is not as good as it seems. But I will restore it.
   
  Right now the receiver is working but needs a cleaning.
   
  Concerning the caps I dont know if it is really a must do change them because the voltage peaks are not high..if it works, I let the caps inside all time..
   
  Philipp


----------



## wotts

My cabinet is missing the bottom trim and the plastic on the sides is cracked. In my setup, I've left it off. I may pick up a new one from the folks Rob has linked to in the past. They seem to do great work.
   
  -Tim


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





nick n said:


>


 
   
  Beautiful, Nick. What kind of finish is on that Realistic? If it's enamel, I don't think I've ever seen hardware from that era without at least one chip in the enamel.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





nick n said:


> Realistic Modulaire I think from around '71. Excellent unit and only $5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That reminds me of an amp my dad built for me for my 6th birthday.  My first piece of audio gear...


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> You misunderstand part of my post - I meant the early engineers at Sherwood, but I disagree with you on the HT front. Yes, you can get good 2-channel sound from an AV receiver, but not at the entry level, and that is where many of us start looking when we stagger into this crazy 'hobbsession' - my old Yamaha AV receiver was easily shaded by the cheapest 2-channel amp CA had at the time, the mighty CA 340 SE. I miss that little amp, but I dont miss the Yamaha receiver.
> 
> FWIW, I believe Denon has a couple of current model receivers which garner favourable reviews for their ability to render both music and movies at reasonable cost - from memory, the cheapest was about 800 AUD last time I cared enough to check.


 
   
  A Yamaha rep was at a meet a couple of years ago.  He said Yamaha concentrated on video over sound for all but the highest end AVRs.  He was at the meet because he was also the local Sennheiser rep.


----------



## BmWr75

Finally got around to installing the Marantz 2500 in its new wood cabinet today.  Installed LED fuse lamps too.  Here's some pictures:


----------



## estreeter

So much absolutely gorgeous kit in this thread - I know tubes get more love on Head-Fi, but for me many of these receivers represent the pinnacle of what I thought 'hi-fi' was growing up - its a shame that the speakers which came with them took up more real estate than an indoor tennis court.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  This is for Skylab and all the other tube junkies who collect vintage SS receivers :
   

  I dont know much about art, but that looks pretty good to me.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Finally got around to installing the Marantz 2500 in its new wood cabinet today.  Installed LED fuse lamps too.  Here's some pictures:


 
  That. is. so. sweet...

   
  As a 2385 owner, I've toyed with the idea of a new case.


----------



## BmWr75

http://mcintoshcabinets.com/


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Finally got around to installing the Marantz 2500 in its new wood cabinet today.  Installed LED fuse lamps too.  Here's some pictures:


 
  Totally big bad ass!!!!


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> So much absolutely gorgeous kit in this thread - I know tubes get more love on Head-Fi, but for me many of these receivers represent the pinnacle of what I thought 'hi-fi' was growing up - its a shame that the speakers which came with them took up more real estate than an indoor tennis court.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Dont you need it anymore???  
   
  I will take it!!
   
  Its a 400er Fisher?


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> How is the Heathkit concerning the phono stage??


 

 I had it running before the faint hum became terrible so it is on hold in need of electolytics. I figure I will redo all the resistors and caps as soon as the $ shows up for it, possibly a few tweaks in the overall circuitry design where it will be beneficial, but I will leave all of that to Abraxas Audio he's excellent, so it's worth the shipping $ and paying for his services/knowledge there.
   
  In other words I didn't get much of a chance to use the TT phono stage enough to recall. Model is AA-151 so one of the beefier units. EL84's.
   
  The Realistic is a wooden cabinet. There's nothing noticeable in the way of scrapes etc on it that I can find and some OrangeGlow brought out the colour beautifully. I honestly wasn't going to post it up, I know what I like but figured nobody else would appreciate the thing.
   
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> That reminds me of an amp my dad built for me for my 6th birthday.  My first piece of audio gear...


 
   oh no you had to remind me.  there is one of these locally recapped for sale and I was purposely trying not to remind myself about it.  Justification of course is waiting for the 151 to get fixed up, so spend a tiny bit now until the expensive overhaul later.  Audio-logic in action.
   
   
  You don't by any chance recall that amp I suppose.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Anyone have any idea how well a Pioneer VSX-D603S works? Found a really cheap deal.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *nick n* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> oh no you had to remind me.  there is one of these locally recapped for sale and I was purposely trying not to remind myself about it.  Justification of course is waiting for the 151 to get fixed up, so spend a tiny bit now until the expensive overhaul later.  Audio-logic in action.
> 
> ...


 

 I absolutely remember it! I spent many hours enjoying it all the way through high school. I replaced it with a Pioneer SA-5800 when I was 15. I don't remember what I did with it after that though. Sitting in my mom's crawl space for all I know...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I absolutely remember it! I spent many hours enjoying it all the way through high school. I replaced it with a Pioneer SA-5800 when I was 15. I don't remember what I did with it after that though. Sitting in my mom's crawl space for all I know...


 
   
  Don't suppose you had a '68 Road Runner that might still be sitting in the garage under a tarp ? All original, numbers matching, just needs paint ? Hell, the keys are probably still in that pair of vintage Levis in the back seat, and I bet if I stuck my hand down into the back seat I'd find a Lincoln penny that would pay for what little resto work she might need.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
http://coins.about.com/od/uscoins/tp/errorvarieties.htm


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Don't suppose you had a '68 Road Runner that might still be sitting in the garage under a tarp ? All original, numbers matching, just needs paint ? Hell, the keys are probably still in that pair of vintage Levis in the back seat, and I bet if I stuck my hand down into the back seat I'd find a Lincoln penny that would pay for what little resto work she might need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I prefer air-cooled 911's and E30 BMW's...


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> _Beemer._ I thought that guy knows stuff since he also claimed sherwood R-300 is MOSFET with pictures. Now I checked the transisters of R-300, nowhere to tell they are MOSFET. Come on, no one in AK correct him. It's really misleading!!


 
  Trying to correct all those goofy mistakes is like rushing around trying to put out hundreds of small fires. Guys can get on the tail-end of long threads after everyone else has gone home and post the craziest stuff, _including the photos that prove them wrong_, as in the example of the Sherwood, and there's nobody still paying attention to the thread. Which, again, doesn't mean the amp of the R-300 doesn't sound good. But now you know: _On the internet, just because no one bothers to tell you you're wrong, that doesn't make you right._
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I prefer air-cooled 911's and E30 BMW's...


 
  Oo, like the Typ 64?


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

What receiver would you guys recommend to drive an HE-500? I absolutely love the look of vintage of receivers but am unclear if there's one particularly well-suited to driving headphones, especially these.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Oo, like the Typ 64?


 
   
  The birth of the legend, but not quite what I was referring to. 
   
  I was talking about actual 911's, 964's, and 993's (although technically, the 964 and my beloved 993 aren't 911's). The debates rage on, but this isn't the forum to pursue it...


----------



## wualta

GetsugaSSJ: Anything by a major maker capable of 50 watts per channel or more should be sufficient, so there's really no single vintage receiver (and why limit yourself to receivers?) or even a select group of them, that will handle the HE-500 gracefully-- which is to say, without gasping and sending up a flare. Remember, '70s gear was built to let college students deafen themselves with speakers so inefficient their voice coils would glow red and set their paper cones on fire. Your gnarliest headphone is nothing to them.
   
The problem, mostly, is getting your hands on what's available, and since chance favors the prepared mind, you should read up on vintage gear here and elsewhere so that when someone tosses up, say, an Optonica integrated amp you'll know it's not some no-name piece of junk and you'll be able to take advantage of the opportunity.


----------



## estreeter

wualta, slightly OT, but do you know if Fang's caution about *not* using the HE adapter to drive the sensitive HE-500s is 'cast in stone'. If memory serves me correctly, someone reported that they had issues with noise from the speaker posts but when they added the adapter the noise was only audible between tracks on the HE-500s. Ironic that he designed the HE-500 partly to address the sensitivity issue only to find people reaching for speaker amps to drive them .....  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (Tylll seems to think the 500 is the best of all the HiFiMans, and line-ball with his LCD-2s as one of the best headphones in the universe. Well, the known universe - we still havent put anyone on Mars, so that could be a little premature)


----------



## obobskivich

Most headphones that are regarded as "hard to drive" can run from what most people would regard as "conventional" - only the headphones that people start hooking up to speaker taps (from the manufacturer) are the ones we have to worry about. To knowledge, that's up to a grand total of two models: AKG K1000 and HiFiMan HE-6. 

Most receivers already have an "adapter box" inside of them for the headphone output, but it sometimes limits the power more than a device you could add yourself. I would not put any headphone past a conventional stereo receiver, IA, or similar. Even the K1000 and HE-6 (because when push comes to shove, you can turn the unit around, and have 25-200W/ch).


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> wualta, slightly OT, but do you know if Fang's caution about *not* using the HE adapter to drive the sensitive HE-500s is 'cast in stone'. If memory serves me correctly, someone reported that they had issues with noise from the speaker posts but when they added the adapter the noise was only audible between tracks on the HE-500s. Ironic that he designed the HE-500 partly to address the sensitivity issue only to find people reaching for speaker amps to drive them .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You can take that opinion with a grain of salt. That opinion was met with a lot of criticism because the amps he use to test the he-6 with didn't output even a 1/4 of what was needed to drive them, so he has yet to hear them properly driven(as far as I know). But in his defense, he offered people to send him an amp to drive them. And to my knowlege no one offered. But also, he could have easily tried any number of speaker amps that I'm sure he's in possession of, but didn't. People who have listened to both properly driven will tell you that the he500, although still on par if not better than the lcd-2, is still a notch below the he6 which is why there's a significant price difference. But all in all, it wasn't a fair fight. Even a 10,000.00 amp that puts out around a watt at the most will sound pretty anemic with the he-6. I have a friend who owns a lf that evens puts out around 4 watts. It never even comes in contact with his he-6 although quiet a few use that amp with their he-6s. So for him even 4 watts isn't enough compared to the way his darkstar powers them. So a 1 watt amp surely  isn't doing anything for them.
   
   
  Can't believe I got off topic on my own thread


----------



## Skylab

bmwr75 said:


> Finally got around to installing the Marantz 2500 in its new wood cabinet today.  Installed LED fuse lamps too.  Here's some pictures:




Scott, that looks AWESOME!!!! Are you enjoying its sound?

Wotts, Mono - nice pics by you as well!

Regarding recapping - couple things. First, the $500 that it is costing to restore my SX-1280 includes replacing the main 4 huge filter caps - and JUST THAT costs over $200. That's not always necessary - it wasn't needed, and I didn't do it for my SX-1980. So I could have done the 1280 for $300 if the big caps hadn't been leaking.

Second, while it does cost more for the bigger amps/ receivers, receivers are going to cost more if you do the tuners. Also, if you don't ever plan to use the phono sections, you can save money by not recapping them, although of course I recommend using phono 

Lastly, I'm not sure it makes sense to recap a more bottom of the line receiver. There will still be sonic limitations to some of those models that a recap is not going to address. Might be better if you have one that is misbehaving to just clean it with deoxit, and if that isn't enough, to try another one.


----------



## BmWr75

Thanks Rob.....and thanks for the cabinet maker recommendation.
   
  The 2500 sounds great driving my vintage, power hungry Dahlquist DQ-10s.


----------



## monoethylene

I am looking for a Scott HH 130 as phono pre?
   
  What are your ideas for a tube pre?
   
  Cheers,
   
  Philipp


----------



## Skylab

Just a preamp? If you are looking for vintage, you might try a Dynaco PAS-3. Know to be good sounding, easy to get mod/upgrade kits for them.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> You can take that opinion with a grain of salt. That opinion was met with a lot of criticism because the amps he use to test the he-6 with didn't output even a 1/4 of what was needed to drive them, so he has yet to hear them properly driven(as far as I know). But in his defense, he offered people to send him an amp to drive them.


 
   
  I have to feel that this is the point where we can complain all we want (I certainly have) but I also consider the matter at an impasse; Tyll is open-minded enough to have made a standing offer to reconsider the headphone when powered by an amp considered worthy of it, but unless HiFiMAN sends an EF-6 to his shop, it's probably not going to happen. Shipping a large, heavy amp round-trip to Tyll is a major financial commitment relative to the purpose of redeeming a headphone, and only HiFiMAN/Head Direct has a stake in the matter.


----------



## MrQ

Does anyone have a contact of a good recapping service for SX series Pioneers? Especially the 1980. 
  Question answered by Skylab.


----------



## Skylab

FWIW, mine was done by Circle Stereo: http://www.circlestereo.com/ 

I bought my one 1980 having already been restored by them, and I have been very pleased with it, to the point where I just sent them my stock 1980 to have them do that one too. The cost without doing the main filter caps was $550 (the 1980, being such a big beast, if going to be among the most expensive to restore...)


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





wualta said:


> GetsugaSSJ: Anything by a major maker capable of 50 watts per channel or more should be sufficient, so there's really no single vintage receiver (and why limit yourself to receivers?) or even a select group of them, that will handle the HE-500 gracefully-- which is to say, without gasping and sending up a flare. Remember, '70s gear was built to let college students deafen themselves with speakers so inefficient their voice coils would glow red and set their paper cones on fire. Your gnarliest headphone is nothing to them.
> 
> The problem, mostly, is getting your hands on what's available, and since chance favors the prepared mind, you should read up on vintage gear here and elsewhere so that when someone tosses up, say, an Optonica integrated amp you'll know it's not some no-name piece of junk and you'll be able to take advantage of the opportunity.


 
  Thanks for the reply, I'm currently leaning towards a few different Marantz models, but I can't find any average pricing on them. Besides receivers, what would you recommend? A receiver, for someone with currently limited knowledge, seems like the safest bet but I'm totally willing to look at other options. I wanted to keep my options below 500 (Since I originally intended to buy a Schiit Lyr) and vintage seems to be the best bang for buck.


----------



## wualta

Aside from receivers, a good basic integrated like Kenwood's KA-7100. No unobtainium parts, built like a steel box, classic silver face, about 60 watts a side into 8 ohms. Nothing fancy, just an amp that keeps working and doesn't go for a lot of money. Let's see if I can find a photo...


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Aside from receivers, a good basic integrated like Kenwood's KA-7100. No unobtainium parts, built like a steel box, classic silver face, about 60 watts a side into 8 ohms. Nothing fancy, just an amp that keeps working and doesn't go for a lot of money. Let's see if I can find a photo...


 

 Wow, that thing is gorgeous. Is it possible to hook into an external DAC without using the headphone out? I've read that it's a little laid back, would you agree with that? I mostly listen to blistering fast music and hope that wouldn't be detrimental to the experience. Again, thanks for your help.


----------



## scompton

You'd hook it up to a DAC just like you'd hook any integrated/receiver, line out from the DAC into Aux or tape in on the amp.
   
  I need to open up mine fix it.  Needs one transistor replaced according to echowars on audiokarma.  It takes 5-10 minutes to come on.  Once it's on it sounds great.


----------



## wualta

Gosh, I've never thought of the 7100 as "laid back", but then maybe I haven't compared it to some of the amps you've heard. As for the external DAC, as long as it puts out about 150mv max, it'll drive an amp like the 7100 to full power. You can get a brochure, owner's manual and service manual free over at HiFiEngine.com (signup required).
   
  Scompton, I didn't know you had one of these too!


----------



## MohawkUS

getsugassj said:


> Wow, that thing is gorgeous. Is it possible to hook into an external DAC without using the headphone out? I've read that it's a little laid back, would you agree with that? I mostly listen to blistering fast music and hope that wouldn't be detrimental to the experience. Again, thanks for your help.




 I listen to Black Metal on my Sherwood, it keeps up even better than my Burson amp did. I don't think 'slow' is a word that applies to vintage receivers. They have plenty of power and you won't bog them down(with headphones at least). My amp is very dynamic, and slightly warm sounding. It was supposedly made to sound like the Sherwood tube amps of the 60s. IMO most of the negatives you see in reviews of modern amps 'slow, boomy, thin, harsh' are a lack of power in the amp stage or a limitation of the DAC. I've only heard a handful of vintage amps so someone correct me if I'm wrong. Extreme metal and vintage amp, a match made in Valhalla/Hell.


----------



## Meewoo

I sold one KA-7100, and have KA-7300 now. I think my KA-7300 sounds a little better than my sold KA-7100. KA-7300 is a little earlier model than KA-7100. Unlike his big brother KA-8300, KA-7300 is dual mono design with 2 transformers.
   
  And look what I got for 500 bones, the rare KA-907. I know one member on this thread has one and you can check his post on page 5 #67. Truly amazing beast IA!!


----------



## Silent One

Kenwood, bringing the iron, baby!


----------



## RexAeterna

silent one said:


> :tongue_smile:   Kenwood, bringing the iron, baby!




that's right! i better be seeing some more love for kenwood. they deserve it! kenwood made tons of amazing receivers,integrated and power amps. even made amazing preamps of their day as well.


----------



## Silent One

I haven't lost my mind, the following question is just a matter of taste (space?): any hazards to using my SX-650 vertically bookend style? Space for the next month or so will be extremely tight while I renovate the listening room. Are the caps susceptible to leaking, perhaps?


----------



## wualta

Exactly. Kenwood is just plain good. Now, as to the 7300 vs the 7100-- The 7300 has nice features the 7100 lacks, but one of those features makes it a pain to service-- difficult-to-get output devices. If you want to avoid those, yet have the nice stuff too, there's the KA-8100. Or just be careful and don't blow the outputs.
   
  Silent One: Tip your 650 up on its side and all the music will spill out. No, seriously, the only problem I can foresee is cooling, and if you don't already have a problem there, this should be doable without worries. Try it and monitor the temperature.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Exactly. Kenwood is just plain good. Now, as to the 7300 vs the 7100-- The 7300 has nice features the 7100 lacks, but one of those features makes it a pain to service-- difficult-to-get output devices. If you want to avoid those, yet have the nice stuff too, there's the KA-8100. Or just be careful and don't blow the outputs.
> 
> Silent One: Tip your 650 up on its side and all the music will spill out. No, seriously, the only problem I can foresee is cooling, and if you don't already have a problem there, this should be doable without worries. Try it and monitor the temperature.


 
   
  Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm thinking it might be best to turn on one side versus the other. Perhaps, the side with the most meat (transformer and stuff) should be up in the air.


----------



## estreeter

Anyone want to post some pics of their vintage speakers with their vintage amp/receivers ? I know this isnt a speaker forum, but I find the speakers even more retro than the electronics - they seem to take up a lot of floor space though. I imagine that anything that could drive those monsters would be fine with most 6 and 8-ohm speakers today ?


----------



## obobskivich

Wrt driving speakers - maybe, maybe not - older speakers tend to be more efficient too; when a normal amp was 10W you can't need 200. Also - gorgeous Kenwoods.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Anyone want to post some pics of their vintage speakers with their vintage amp/receivers ? I know this isnt a speaker forum, but I find the speakers even more retro than the electronics - they seem to take up a lot of floor space though. I imagine that anything that could drive those monsters would be fine with most 6 and 8-ohm speakers today ?


 
   
  Hey buddy:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/552257/calling-all-vintage-speaker-owners


----------



## Majestyk

Good idea with the link.  Turning this in to a speaker thread is not a good idea.


----------



## estreeter

Thanks Rob. As always, you are the man.


----------



## woody88

Hi guys,
   
  so after my second email to the seller, he had replied today, stating the following "[size=10pt]I stated in listing that unit has damage meaning scratches and cleaning meaning tuneing.I'm very sorry that you misunderstood my terms. Its my fisrt ebay listing. I would like to my you happy and not loose my shirt. If I Paypal You a $100 towards tuneing and and cleaning, wil this make happy?"[/size]
   
  I am still leaning on sending the receiver back; as the thing that bothered me the most was the heavy scratches on the top silver metal faceplate on the picture that I showed you guys. What do you guys think, should I just send it back and avoid the trouble altogether? I have a feeling that the repair bill will be more than $100 and the scratches on the silver face plate was too much to deal with, plus the dent and more scratches on the rear top brown metal plate. skylab and others, if you guys were me, would you send it back? sorry to solicit suggestions from you guys again, I just feel like even if the repair was done, I would still be really bothered by the heavy scratches...


----------



## Majestyk

Just my humble opinion, but see how much the bill is first.  It's a shame that you would also be out the diagnostic fee PLUS the return shipping fee.
   
  If you do end up returning it, make sure you get signature shipping that appears ONLINE.


----------



## Skylab

​


estreeter said:


> Thanks Rob. As always, you are the man.




I just put up an "interesting" post in that thread


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





majestyk said:


> Just my humble opinion, but see how much the bill is first.  It's a shame that you would also be out the diagnostic fee PLUS the return shipping fee.
> 
> If you do end up returning it, make sure you get signature shipping that appears ONLINE.


 
   
  the problem with getting the bill first was that the repair shop is extremely busy; when I initially dropped it off last week, they said it would take about 4 weeks before they can even open it up and find out how much it would cost to bring her back in decent internal health, and by that time, I would've taken a long time to resolve the issue with the seller, and that is why I don't want to drag on about this. the repair shop had thought, without opening it up and just based on the description that I provided, it would be in the $150 range. and whether or not that is true or not, it is anyone's guess.
   
  and after the repair, I am still left with a silver faceplate that is very scratched up at the top. something that I am not too happy about. do you think I should ask him if he would refund me $150 and think it over, or just forget the whole thing and set up the return, pay my own $60-70 to ship it back to him, and maybe see if ebay will refund my return shipping possibly?


----------



## palmfish

Those are not scratches on the faceplate. Those are deep gouges. His description was misleading, if not an outright lie.
   
  If it were me, I would send it back. Even if you have to eat the shipping, consider it a "do-over fee" and find yourself a really nice one that will make you smile every time you look at it.


----------



## Majestyk

I see...Yeah that's too long of a wait at the repair shop.  Those scratches (or gouges) could be buffed out but the finish at the top would no longer be brushed after doing so...Unless it was rebrushed, but that's a big hassle and more expense.  You could tell the repair shop your dilemma and maybe they can speed things up.  Otherwise, ship it back.
   
  BTW, I if you do ship it back and look for another one, I'd try Craigslist.  You just have to be a little patient.  I put a want ad for a Yamaha CR 00 or 20 series receiver in my local Craigslist and 1 month later I got a reply from someone, just 15 minutes away, with a mint condition CR-620.  Good price too.


----------



## woody88

Palmfish and majestyk, thank you for your reply. Lesson learned on this one. Yeah, I would just have to be patient and maybe try my luck on Craigslist. the ebay deal really taught me something. you just can't trust people too much! I had just emailed the seller just now, and letting him know that again his descriptions of "some small scratches" and "good working condition" is misleading and asked to ship back the receiver and receive full refund including original shipping. We'll see how soon he will reply to me and hopefully I can start to move on from this. Thanks again guys for your feedback!


----------



## pigfatcat

It took me more than 2 weeks to read through 320 posts of this thread . I ordered a rare  Sansui AU-X11 mid way ( in very good condition which arrived before finishing my reading. I am right now in China. Here emphasis here is IA instead of receivers. Most of the vintage gears here comes from Japan or South East Asia. Back in 70s and 80s , most of the Chinese people could never  dream of owning such a piece.
   
  The SACD player is Sony SCD 777( Japanese version), the speaker is Fischer & Fischer from early 90, volcanic rock cabinet with dynaudio yweeters and woofers , abosultely neutral and no cabinet resonance, but difficult to drive . There is a Melody tube pre at the bottom.


----------



## estreeter

Way to go, PFC - it appears that your persistence has paid off ! Enjoy your receiver.


----------



## Rawrbington

Love those Sansuis.  Ive heard the AU 917 on several occaisions and it is awesome.  I've not used it with headphones but for speakers its very very good


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


>


 
  Nice IA!! And welcome!
  Au-X11 is rare in U.S, I think people can only get it from Japan. Asian market really has many good stuff! I recall one Aker bought a Au-x1111 MOS vintage (MOSFET output), that model never came to U.S.


----------



## pigfatcat

Many other IAs avialable here :
  Pioneer SA 9500 and 9800 for roughly $200-300, SX 9000 for roughly $275, A717 at $250, A-838 at $600
  Sansui AU 907F roughly $250,AU-D607G around $100, AU- Alpha 907 at $850, AU-D907X at $600, AU-Alpha 907i MOS at $750,BA-2000 at $430,
  Yamaha A-8 at $150,CA-1000 II at $100, MX-600 at $300,CA-2000 at $270
  HK730 at $180,
  Technics SU-V10 at $350, SU-9400 at $150
  Onkyo A-755 at $100,
  Marantz 2245 at $250,2330b at $630,
  Luxman L-510 at $480,
  Kenwood /Trio KA-9900 at $400, KA-8700 at $240
   
  All of them offered by established dealers in good working condition and prices include shipping. I wonder why there are not that many  receivers on sale .
   
  I don't know how these prices compared with that in  North America .
   
  I choose AU-X11 because of the rarity and the power to push my speakers . I also intend to pair up with HE-6 .


----------



## Rawrbington

well back to my purchase of the 2250B.
  I mentioned i got ahold of the guy finally.  He said he'd email me the tracking.  That was Thursday.  Still haven't gotten a number from him.
   
  How long do i wait to contact PayPal about possibly getting scammed?
   
  other thing is i noticed him selling a 2245 on the same classifieds the other day.  and now its sold.  I hope my lack of action didn't cause someone else to get scammed as well.
  but the thing is I don't know for sure yet.  He said he shipped it wed or thursday when i talked to him.  Can't remember which.  I'd hate to open a case and then have it show up.
   
  BTW anybody know how long something like that, coming from Canada to the US takes to clear customs?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> Many other IAs avialable here :
> Pioneer SA 9500 and 9800 for roughly $200-300, SX 9000 for roughly $275, A717 at $250, A-838 at $600
> Sansui AU 907F roughly $250,AU-D607G around $100, AU- Alpha 907 at $850, AU-D907X at $600, AU-Alpha 907i MOS at $750,BA-2000 at $430,
> Yamaha A-8 at $150,CA-1000 II at $100, MX-600 at $300,CA-2000 at $270
> ...


 
  Those are very rare pieces in North America, but I feel Japan companies products are relatively cheaper than here. HK730, Marantz seem a little higher, supply has great impact on price. And Luxman L-510 seems very nice!
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> well back to my purchase of the 2250B.
> I mentioned i got ahold of the guy finally.  He said he'd email me the tracking.  That was Thursday.  Still haven't gotten a number from him.
> 
> How long do i wait to contact PayPal about possibly getting scammed?
> ...


 
  Very fishy to me! I think you should post something on that forum you mentioned. Do they have a feedback mechanism?


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> How long do i wait to contact PayPal about possibly getting scammed?


 
   
  I believe PayPal lets you file a claim within 45 days from the date of the purchase, so you've still got some time probably. It would definitely be awkward to file a claim if he really did ship it just several days ago. I've dealt with sellers like that a couple times before. Very slow or sparse communication, but the stuff did show up. Of course, anything is possible so don't know exactly what's going on in your case.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah thats the thing.  I'd hate to have that happen.  i guess i'll just wait another week.  He said on the phone that it would take one week to ship.  but before when we were discussing the shipping methods he said customs can take a week.  so i have no idea when to expect it, or if its coming at all.
  i guess if its not here next wed i file a claim.


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> yeah thats the thing.  I'd hate to have that happen.  i guess i'll just wait another week.  He said on the phone that it would take one week to ship.  but before when we were discussing the shipping methods he said customs can take a week.  so i have no idea when to expect it, or if its coming at all.
> i guess if its not here next wed i file a claim.


 

 rawrbington, sorry to hear about that. I thought from the last time we were talking about your marantz, I thought it would be in the air already. It is kind of weird that seller promised shipping and email but never came through. that part always makes me a bit nervous. But like manveru said, some sellers are just plain bad at email communication. Still would've hoped that they should've kept you in the loop though


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> Many other IAs avialable here :
> Pioneer SA 9500 and 9800 for roughly $200-300, SX 9000 for roughly $275, A717 at $250, A-838 at $600
> Sansui AU 907F roughly $250,AU-D607G around $100, AU- Alpha 907 at $850, AU-D907X at $600, AU-Alpha 907i MOS at $750,BA-2000 at $430,
> Yamaha A-8 at $150,CA-1000 II at $100, MX-600 at $300,CA-2000 at $270
> ...


 
   
  Piggy, can you please post your impressions of the Sansui/HE-6 combo when you get your ducks in a row ? Its probably just me, but Feng seems very keen to push HE-6 owners to his own 6 Watt amp - understandable, but if they can be happily driven from a vintage receiver so much the better.


----------



## Majestyk

> BTW anybody know how long something like that, coming from Canada to the US takes to clear customs?


 
   
  It doesn't take long....24 hours tops.  What method of shipping did he say he used?


----------



## f1reverb

Deleted.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





majestyk said:


> It doesn't take long....24 hours tops.  What method of shipping did he say he used?


 
  standard post im thinking.
   
  cause he said it would be transferred over to USPS at the boarder.
   
  its going from a Montreal Suburb to oklahoma city


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Piggy, can you please post your impressions of the Sansui/HE-6 combo when you get your ducks in a row ? Its probably just me, but Feng seems very keen to push HE-6 owners to his own 6 Watt amp - understandable, but if they can be happily driven from a vintage receiver so much the better.


 
   
  The HE-6 is a large part of the reason why many head-fiers already own receivers...


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> standard post im thinking.
> 
> cause he said it would be transferred over to USPS at the boarder.
> 
> its going from a Montreal Suburb to oklahoma city


 

 A little patience may be in order. I've received stuff from Canada in short order in most cases. Usually just an additional few days to a week plus over and above what I would expect from a similar shipment through USPS. But a couple times it has taken longer for no explicable reason. Canada Post is pretty good, but it is still an institution like our USPS. In your situation they are both involved.
   
  Regarding the lack of communication... sometimes it's easy to assume the other party is just as connected as we are and why don't they just respond? On occasion I've gotten to the point of sending testy e-mails only to find out I've been talking to someone who drives into town once a week to use the internet at a coffee shop. One family emergency and it was 2 week span before they responded. That was embarrassing.
   
  All I'm saying is you never know the other's circumstances. But keeping diligent never hurts.


----------



## pigfatcat

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Piggy, can you please post your impressions of the Sansui/HE-6 combo when you get your ducks in a row ? Its probably just me, but Feng seems very keen to push HE-6 owners to his own 6 Watt amp - understandable, but if they can be happily driven from a vintage receiver so much the better.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The HE-6 is a large part of the reason why many head-fiers already own receivers...


 
   

 Unfortunately , I have not done any extensive listening with the HE-6.
   
  The Sansui came . I connected to the speakers and it blew in several seconds  after a pop. Smoke came  out from the machine . I was scared. I immediately shipped it back to the dealer ( who was 1200 kms away!). The dealer then apologized and said they accidentally left some parts of a srew inside the machine earlier on before shipping to me  , which caused the circuit to short. It blew a diode transistor which they replaced with the same model.
   
  Then the Sansui came again . I connected the speakers and listened for two nights. The sound is beautiful ! Then I found out that switching the input to external ( i.e. using the Sansui as a power am only) gives no sound , and then there is no sound from the HP out .I 'd just sent the sansui back to the dealer  again for them to fix the problem. The dealer said becuse of these hiccups, they are not going to earn money on this deal. Nevertheless, they will do everything to serve me, since this is their duty, and the machine is covered by their warranty.I sent them the repairs manual for AU-X1 which  I found on the internet . They said they don't need a manual to fix the problems , since they have professional engineers. I then alerted them as to the issues of Dc Offset and bias which I read on the forums.
   
  The good thing about logistics in China is that the door to door shipping cost is less than $20 ( that means so far the dealers have spent almost $80 on the shipping , not counting the next shipping of the sansui back to me). On the other hand, I do not think they are professional enough to have caused the first incident.
   
  Now about listening impressions from the speakers . The sound is rich . The mids are mellow without losing the detail, , if not lush. The highs are smooth , but extension can be higher IMO. The lows are plenty and punchy , but can be tighter and faster  , IMO. Overall, I believe it should be an addictive sound, but I am not addicted yet .  It's not tube like. It's not modern SS sound either . It's another type of sound which I have not experienced before.
   
  I do know tube sound, at least a modern tube sound. I started witth HiFi at aorund 1999. My first tube gear was an Audio Space 8i , an EL34 gear at 60wpc. That happened to be a very famous brand here in China and Hong Kong. My next gear  was Audio Research LS-10 Mk. II , a pre am with seperate power supply. It's old but not vintage when I bought it . I bought it second hand at $2.5K during the recession in 2000 . I have since sold it many years ago. I heard that the second hand price of it has risen to $120K . That means by now it has become a vintage of its own, a classic, so to speak. My third tube gear is a Melody 1688 which I still posess , praised by many audio reviewers here to be one of the best tube pre ever made . However, I have never come to appreciate it. My fourth tube gear is an Audio Note P-2 from early 90s which I used to pair up with the Melody. It sounds nice . Now I am using it as a power am driving some paradigm floor speakers , connected to the pre-out of Marantz AV 6004, a mid-tier AV receiver, in my AV rack . IMO the Sansui AU-X11 sounds different from any of the tube gears I had before or now.
   
  Actually I have switched to modern SS many years ago. There was this workshop in Beijing around 2003 which produced the Centumsonic series of IAs. They were not even a factory as such . Most Chinese audiophiles have not even heard of them, not to say those overseas. These SS IAs were designed by a professor of the University of Aero Space. The circulation was limited . The specs and the actual sounds are breathtaking. THD of less than 0.0003% . special feedback mechanism to handle the impedance variation of the  speaker accross its  frequency spectrum so as to give a really flat frequency response on the speaker , not on test bench. Only the Australian  Halcro series of amplifiers can match these performance , and they are stellar prices. And you know what, back then I  bought a 200w 8ohm, 400w 4ohm IA for $1K only !  That workshop has since departed from making amplifiers and is now using  their technology  on surveilance of undergound graves ( a lot of those cultural relics in China ). I have compared the 100w version to Mark Levinson 383, which cannot match it in transient speed, detail, and dynamics. In contrast, ML 383 seems like a tube am. I have also compared the 25w version with  the 1st generation NuForce 7 pre- and 9 mono-block combo. I believe the 25w version is better in terms of depth and punch. There is something about Class D designs which compromise the sound quality, no matter how good they are in certain areas. It's a pity that this Beijing workshop is not producing HiFi any more. My 200w IA is out of order now, and it's difficult to find the replacement parts.
   
  People may say that we cannot hear THD lower than 1% . I can categorically say that it's wrong. If you have the right speaker which is ultra neutral and revealing and lack of cabinet resonance , you can certainly discern the difference. Usually the cabinet resonance of speakers are of such a scale to render  any THD of the ams or the sources below 0.01% meaningless . If you listen to the top gear of ML, MBL ,or even Krell, you'd be astonished by their high quality and would wonder that  they could not be surpassed . But when you hear Halcro, you know that it belong to a different leaque. The same is the case for these Centumsonic gears.
   
  So for the past few years I have been used to ultra neutral, fast, and clean sound from a system consisting of Sony SCD 777 ( a classic of its own by now) , Centumsonic 200w am  , and Fischer and Fischer speakers . As I stepped into middle age, I found that I am less and less drawn to the system.The system is too unforgiving and cold. I can only enjoy well recorded SACDs and some particularly well recorded red book CDs.
   
  I can only say that the sansui AU-X11 is anything but the above described sound . It is going to take a while for me to decide whether this is the sound I like , and whether I'll keep the AU-X11. From what I browsed from the internet, the AU-X11 is already extremely fast with the transients and cold, compared with all the other Sansui gears before 80 , or the Alpha series after that.
   
  Like others , I am drawn to vintage gears because of HE-6. I believe HE-6 can discern the ultra low THDs of ams.Fang said that EF6 , when paired up with HE-6 actually is better than all existing dedicated SS and tube HP amplifiers. It only lags behind some extremely expensive modern SS speaker amplifiers in terms of THD . I still have to do my listening in time to see how the Sansui fare. The Au-X11 have a THD of less than 0.003% , which I believe was the best that SS gear could  achieve 30 years ago. If the spec is accurate, it should still be on par with most ot the modern TOTL  SS gears . I just think that the sound of Au-X11  belong to an old school, musical but not accurate enough,  according to  my limited first impressions.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The HE-6 is a large part of the reason why many head-fiers already own receivers...


 
   
  They were popular here long before the HE-6 came along, but Jude has deliberately consigned speaker rigs to the bric-a-brac of cables and other kit that is of less interest to headphone enthusiasts. I get that - headphones suffer similar indignities on other audio boards - but I don't see it as a competition the way some do. The people who feel the need  to post that 'speakers are so much better' just dont get it - those who genuinely love music can see the advantages and disadvantages of both. Vintage  receivers bring a whole other layer to the experience, but you know that so I'll leave it there.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> A little patience may be in order. I've received stuff from Canada in short order in most cases. Usually just an additional few days to a week plus over and above what I would expect from a similar shipment through USPS. But a couple times it has taken longer for no explicable reason. Canada Post is pretty good, but it is still an institution like our USPS. In your situation they are both involved.
> 
> Regarding the lack of communication... sometimes it's easy to assume the other party is just as connected as we are and why don't they just respond? On occasion I've gotten to the point of sending testy e-mails only to find out I've been talking to someone who drives into town once a week to use the internet at a coffee shop. One family emergency and it was 2 week span before they responded. That was embarrassing.
> 
> All I'm saying is you never know the other's circumstances. But keeping diligent never hurts.


 
  I think that is good advice.  I've kind of decided to just not worry about it for another week.  if nothing shows up by the end of next week i can start to stress.  you're right, sometimes i just assume everyone operates like i do.  Plus at this point worrying isn't gonna do me any good anyways.
   
  and now that i think about it he may have tracking to the boarder but may not have tracking past there.  Its just a waiting game.


----------



## pigfatcat

I agree. IMO speaker are the loose chain in an audio system, producing the biggest distortion , compared with the source and the amplifiers. Think about that , the THD and noise of most advance DAC chips are 120db to 140 db, such that most top CD players and DACs can achieive the 0.000x % mark in THD and noise.  TOTL modern amplifiers can only achieve an average of 0.001% , thus renbdering any lower distortion in the source meaningless. I believe that's why many found that the performance difference of top DACs to be so negligible, no matter what chips they use.Speaker designs have experienced a major breakthorugh in the past few years , in order to accomodate Hi Rez music. this relate not only to high and low extension, but also as to transiency, and reduction of THD. By now first tier speakers all command prices of more than $50K . Back in 2000 most >$10K speakers were already considered 1st tier. The improvement is real and easily discernable, but comes at a great price. The same applies to ear buds.Just several years ago, 1st tier ear buds are at the range of $300-$400. Now the best ear bud are all beyong $1K.
   
  IMO in terms of  overall SQ, apart from sound stage, it's difficult to find any new speaker less than $20K to surpass HE-6 as  a whole. It represents  the best value I believe in my history of HiFi .
   
  I tend to believe that Vintage Amplifiers and Speakers cannot in any way match modern TOTL SS amplfiers and speakers . But to build up a modern TOTL system , you need to spend $50K to $100K , whereas spending less than $3K can give you a system of some TOTL Vintage gears 30 years old. The total SQ is of course not in the same league. But some may prefer the warmer Vinatge sound.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Big thank you to Wualta for leading me to the Kenwood KA-7100, it should be arriving tomorrow!
   
  Do any of you have experience cleaning the inside of your amps/receivers? What would be the best way to go about this? I don't want to used compressed air if there's a possibility I could damage the components.


----------



## pigfatcat

BTW, I have tried the HE-6 on the HP out of my Marantz AV 6004 , a modern mid-tier AV gear. the music come from an external hard disk linked to an HTPC using Foolbar and Wasapi ,which feed digital to AV 6004 on HDMI. The sound is deep and rich, with good dynamics . 6004 HP out is definitely powerful enough to push HE-6. I was satisfied even listening to Dvorak Symphony No.9, except that the resolution and detail is not top notch. It may have something to do with the DAC in 6004, or just that the source was  poor and not dedicated for music .


----------



## Majestyk

> standard post im thinking.
> 
> cause he said it would be transferred over to USPS at the boarder.
> 
> its going from a Montreal Suburb to oklahoma city


 
   
  It's possible this guy shipped it ground and got no tracking at all.  I'm not sure if you can ship large items that way or not.  But maybe he's dodging you -not because he didn't ship it- but because there's no tracking.  If that's the case it's not the end of the world.  As long as he packed it well, things should work out fine.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> .
> 
> IMO in terms of  overall SQ, apart from sound stage, it's difficult to find any new speaker less than $20K to surpass HE-6 as  a whole. It represents  the best value I believe in my history of HiFi .


 
  Until someone lets me hear every speaker under 20K, I'm going to take that claim with a bucket of salt.Different animals, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I'd actually like to hear a really high-end AV rig - the pricetags on some of the surround speakers at the moment blows my tiny mind. A former workmate was over the moon when he was finally able to put 10K into a HT rig - receiver, sub and 5 speakers. That budget wouldnt buy you a centre speaker from some of the high-end AV crowd. Vintage receivers/speakers are still a bargain, assuming you get kit that works.


----------



## 5aces

Soon to be gone but worth a look:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648998424-legendary_sansui_ca3000_pre_amp__ba5000_amp/

The Sansui CA 3000 Preamplifier and 300W BA 5000 Power Amplifier,only see a few clean sets move in a year,if that.
Step aside G 33000 here comes the judge!
This set is exceptionally nice,restored and being sold by a reputable seller.

I like these sets,only a McIntosh MC 2500 with 500W of grunt (and a Sansui AU 7900 as a pre) would make me want to move it off the shelf.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Soon to be gone but worth a look:
> http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/648998424-legendary_sansui_ca3000_pre_amp__ba5000_amp/
> The Sansui CA 3000 Preamplifier and 300W BA 5000 Power Amplifier,only see a few clean sets move in a year,if that.
> Step aside G 33000 here comes the judge!
> ...


 
  Your posts are always full of audio porn!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I hate U!


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> Your posts are always full of audio porn!! :tongue_smile: I hate U!




Hey now,just doing my part to steer the young lads/gals onto the path of audio righteousness !



*"Lead me not into the audio poorhouse or if I am between the ages of 15-25,to only listen to the electronic oblivion of DJ Tiesto,Club Life 2.Miami 2012 this summer"*
Ha Ha,peace & joy Meewoo !
btw-I have that album from iTunes...


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> Big thank you to Wualta for leading me to the Kenwood KA-7100, it should be arriving tomorrow!
> 
> Do any of you have experience cleaning the inside of your amps/receivers? What would be the best way to go about this? I don't want to used compressed air if there's a possibility I could damage the components.


 
   
  You're quite welcome, and, especially after all this crazy talk about 20k audio components (not that there's aaanything wrong with that), I hope you got the 7100 for far less money than you expected to spend and that it arrives (fingers crossed) up to spec.
   
  As for cleaning, I confess I'm a very poor neatnik, but if I see heat sinks (or anything that gets hot, like power resistors) covered with dusty slime, I will go after it, usually with nothing more sophisticated than a good sucky vacuum cleaner with a dusting brush and Windex on a cotton swab. Inspect little heat sinks as well as big ones. Compressed air (and this is assuming it's free of water and oil) should be avoided, since you can drive dust, cat hair and greasy crud into places they weren't able to enter on their own, like switches, shaft bearings and pots. Have a good contact cleaner on hand, of course.
   
  Now, if _*you*_ happen to be a neatnik, there are lots of threads on AK where people make their amps' interiors shine better than showroom-spiffy. WD-40 is often used.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





wualta said:


> You're quite welcome, and, especially after all this crazy talk about 20k audio components (not that there's aaanything wrong with that), I hope you got the 7100 for far less money than you expected to spend and that it arrives (fingers crossed) up to spec.
> 
> As for cleaning, I confess I'm a very poor neatnik, but if I see heat sinks (or anything that gets hot, like power resistors) covered with dusty slime, I will go after it, usually with nothing more sophisticated than a good sucky vacuum cleaner with a dusting brush and Windex on a cotton swab. Inspect little heat sinks as well as big ones. Compressed air (and this is assuming it's free of water and oil) should be avoided, since you can drive dust, cat hair and greasy crud into places they weren't able to enter on their own, like switches, shaft bearings and pots. Have a good contact cleaner on hand, of course.
> 
> Now, if _*you*_ happen to be a neatnik, there are lots of threads on AK where people make their amps' interiors shine better than showroom-spiffy. WD-40 is often used.


 
   
  I got it, and while I'm happy it turns on and works, I'm a little disappointed in just how dirty it is. I paid about 130 for it, and one pops up on ebay afterwards in better condition for less ಠ_ಠ, lmao. Oh well, part of the journey.
   
  It came in a wooden case that isn't in that good of condition, which is no problem, but it's missing it's top metal panel, so all the parts are exposed. I've searched ebay and some vintage websites and can't seem find any replacement parts. Do you know of any website that sells perforated panels or scrap parts?


----------



## jjacq

Someone is selling me a Kenwood KR 6600 / 6060 for $75 in good condition. My questions are:
 (1) is this a good price and (2) will this work with an older 1960 turntable?

 I apologize, I do not have any knowledge in turntables or receivers.

 Thank you.


----------



## Skylab

That seems like a very good price for a KR-6600.  And for sure it will work with your turntable, as long as you have a decent cartridge in it (which would be required no matter what you use the TT with).


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> I got it, and while I'm happy it turns on and works, I'm a little disappointed in just how dirty it is. I paid about 130 for it, and one pops up on ebay afterwards in better condition for less ಠ_ಠ, lmao. Oh well, part of the journey.
> 
> It came in a wooden case that isn't in that good of condition, which is no problem, but it's missing it's top metal panel, so all the parts are exposed. I've searched ebay and some vintage websites and can't seem find any replacement parts. Do you know of any website that sells perforated panels or scrap parts?


 
  Kenwood comes with three option for one model,
  1) Metal case
  2) Wood case without metal cover
  3) Wood case with metal cover
  Of course, Kenwood provides handle too.
  In you case, you got wood case without metal cover. ePay is you first place to get parts,  or local CL, or dump site.


----------



## estreeter

A few years back, I needed an electronics guy to take a look at my laptop - finally found one in Brisbane's inner west. He had old receivers and amps stacked to the ceiling - right through the back of the shop. At the time, I had zero interest in anything that old - I asked him who the hell buys such old stuff and he just laughed. He's probably laughing all the way to the bank now, particularly with the ability and parts to repair even the most tragic cases. To be fair, it wasn't all 'vintage treasure' - some of it looked more like the kind of plastic crap you wouldn't want in your house - but I've dealt with enough from the old car fraternity to know that these guys are hoarders. Someone cant afford  to repair their old 'stereo' and they tend to dump it on the counter - I suspect that our friend would know exactly what he could cannibalize for his own needs.Just like the old car guys, he will have other stuff squirreled away just waitiing for the right parts to get it back 'on the road'.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *GetsugaSSJ* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I got [the KA-7100] and while I'm happy it turns on and works, I'm a little disappointed in just how dirty it is. I paid about 130 for it, and one pops up on ebay afterwards in better condition for less ಠ_ಠ, lmao. Oh well, part of the journey.


 
   
  The Kenwoodisti would probably give several body parts for that wooden case. I've never seen one in the wood, so to speak. The important thing is, does it work *well? *no* *pops, no* *crackles, no dropped channels, relay clicks in within 5 seconds, no hum or excessive hiss, etc? 35-year-old dirt is fine-- dirt holds in the magic smoke, and you can always deal with it later. Are there dents and scratches? How about some photos?
   
  A spare is always a good idea if you have storage room, and the metal-case version should be much cheaper.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





wualta said:


> The Kenwoodisti would probably give several body parts for that wooden case. I've never seen one in the wood, so to speak. The important thing is, does it work *well? *no* *pops, no* *crackles, no dropped channels, relay clicks in within 5 seconds, no hum or excessive hiss, etc? 35-year-old dirt is fine-- dirt holds in the magic smoke, and you can always deal with it later. Are there dents and scratches? How about some photos?
> 
> A spare is always a good idea if you have storage room, and the metal-case version should be much cheaper.


 

 The wooden case is fairly beat up. One of the rear corners is sort of disfigured and the grill area has a small missing piece (which I found in the amp, lol). I've only turned on the unit briefly to make sure it worked, I've spent all day soaking all the knobs in vinegar and scrubbing the years of them (they look absolutely pristine now) and I removed the bottom cover only to find 40 year old sticky foam on it which is impossible to remove. At least the bottom of the components look brand spanking new, that was a surprise. On the unit itself, there are zero scratches or dents on the faceplate, which is heavenly. It's still really REALLY dirty (using vinegar and a scotch brite pad doesn't help in this case) but I will clean it or die trying.
   
  I took a few photos of the front, bottom cover and interior, I don't have my dlsr handy so these will have to do:


----------



## Rawrbington

Headed out to go see about a Marantz 1060.  I've read some pretty good things about it.  Some stuff says its the same as the 2230, but the specs show a much higher damping factor, over double that of the 2230.  So i wonder about them being the same.  I think I can get it for 100$ and that will replace my 2245 while it gets rebuilt.  Hopefully the 2250B shows up too.  Then after a couple months i'll be selling off one of them.  Because I just have no use for more than 2.  And my friends and girlfriend are starting to wonder about me checking into audioholic rehab.


----------



## wualta

Vinegar might work for mild corrosion and for hard-water scum, but for this I'd start with a good all-purpose cleaner, preferably one without alcohol, and no abrasive pads. You may have to use a meaner solvent for that foam residue. (I wonder what the foam was for? I don't recall seeing that in my 7100s.. )
   
  Anyway, the interior doesn't look too bad at low rez... about what you'd expect for something that's never been opened up..
   
      
   
  As for the front, pop off the knobs and soak 'em if they won't just wipe clean. Don't spray directly on the faceplate.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Wow, these REALLY give new life to my 325is. The only issue is, i have to crank it to  -14 (past noon) to get it loud enough. Any idea what the issue could be?


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> Wow, these REALLY give new life to my 325is. The only issue is, i have to crank it to  -14 (past noon) to get it loud enough. Any idea what the issue could be?


 
   
   
  HAH! never mind, had the attenuator on which resulted in -20DB XDDD


----------



## wualta

Har!  We've all done that.
   
  Yes, and that 20dB "pad", as it's called, will come in very handy if you ever plug in modern superefficient headphones. I wish they'd given the switch a status light so you could tell at a glance that it was engaged. You know what'll happen-- you'll crank the volume way up and say oh-I-forgot-this, then flip the switch and blow yourself out of the room.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Har!  We've all done that.
> 
> Yes, and that 20dB "pad", as it's called, will come in very handy if you ever plug in modern superefficient headphones. I wish they'd given the switch a status light so you could tell at a glance that it was engaged. You know what'll happen-- you'll crank the volume way up and say oh-I-forgot-this, then flip the switch and blow yourself out of the room.


 

 Or an indicator light for the "tape monitor" button. I nearly deafened myself this winter when restoring my 2245 Marantz, volume was on all the way as I was troubleshooting why there was no signal coming through for about an hour before I bumped the tape monitor switch. my headphones left my head at about 300mph!
   
  The bug bites again! Shortly after a deal fell through on a little dot amp (it was European voltage and I am forbade to use adapters in my college apartment) I saw a Craigslist add for a Pioneer SX-780. I got it for 100 with a pair of Pinnacle bookshelf speakers, which I don't think is a bad deal at all. The selector switch needs to be replaced though, and the selector knob as well. It'll also get a full recap, LED conversion, and a replacement of all the diodes as well. Then it'll go to school with me to power my desktop speakers (the pinnacles) and my Sextets. I know the 780 isn't the largest Pioneer by any stretch, but I'm assuming it to be about comparable to my Marantz, yes? Although I'll reserve comparisons until the Pioneer is restored.


----------



## estreeter

Not trying to push an agenda here guys, but this guy went out and bought an old (and dirt cheap) amp then ran through the process of measuring how much power its actually putting out, He's a bit of a nutter - runs car audio kit inside the house - but his explanation seems simple enough for even a dufus like myself to understand. OK, a dufus without an oscilloscope or voltmeter,, but this still seems like a good spot for this vid. 
   
  Measuring an amp for true power


----------



## Rawrbington

Picked up the 1060. Man it sounds good. Great with the headphones and even better with my speakers. I think I'm just a sucker for marantz. This thing might sound better than my 2245 which I absolutely love. Only down side is it pops fairly loud sometimes when turning it on. It doesn't do it when powering down, just powering on. I'm thinking dc offset maybe? Or a leaky cap somewhere


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Picked up the 1060. Man it sounds good. Great with the headphones and even better with my speakers. I think I'm just a sucker for marantz. This thing might sound better than my 2245 which I absolutely love. *Only down side is it pops fairly loud sometimes when turning it on*. It doesn't do it when powering down, just powering on. I'm thinking dc offset maybe? Or a leaky cap somewhere


 
   
  Sorry - that's a fail for me. I'd get it checked. I know this is old kit, but life is too short to put up with loud popping noises.


----------



## Rawrbington

It'll get a recap in the next few months. I'm gonna check the dc offset when I can get ahold of a multimeter. I think the popping noise tends to be dc coming through. So I'll hope for it to be the offset since that's the easiest fix. Getting ahold of the cap list might be some work.

Most electronic repairs I've needed I have been able to get done by friends for just the price of parts plus booze. I'm lucky to have friends that do that kind of stuff for a living.

I really can't complain too much. I ended up getting it for 80$ and it might turn out to be the best sounding speaker amp I have.

My poor Yamaha a s500 hasn't seen action lately and neither has my sx950


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> It'll get a recap in the next few months. I'm gonna check the dc offset when I can get ahold of a multimeter. I think the popping noise tends to be dc coming through. So I'll hope for it to be the offset since that's the easiest fix. Getting ahold of the cap list might be some work.
> Most electronic repairs I've needed I have been able to get done by friends for just the price of parts plus booze. I'm lucky to have friends that do that kind of stuff for a living.
> I really can't complain too much. I ended up getting it for 80$ and it might turn out to be the best sounding speaker amp I have.
> My poor Yamaha a s500 hasn't seen action lately and neither has my sx950


 
   
  I'm assuming the repairs come before the booze-up ?


----------



## Skylab

That sure sounds like it needs it's DC offset adjusted. I had to do that on a Marantz 2235b receiver I bought to fix up. The procedure was not difficult, but it does require the service manual (probably available at either Hifiengine.com or the AudioKarma database), and a multimeter.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

My amp also makes an audible click when turned on. The left channel gives out intermittently unless i keep messing with the Tone and Subsonic switches, lmao. I have no idea what to spray with this deoxit though.


----------



## Majestyk

Try the DeoxIT D100 and spray all the pots and switches, from inside.  There are other DeoxiTT's but I find this stuff the safest to use...IE if you miss the target it won't do any harm.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





majestyk said:


> Try the DeoxIT D100 and spray all the pots and switches, from inside.  There are other DeoxiTT's but I find this stuff the safest to use...IE if you miss the target it won't do any harm.


 

 I ordered some DeoxIT last night, not the D100 stuff but hopefully effective. This might be a silly question, but what are the pots? and by switches, do you mean the literal switches on the front of the amplifier?


----------



## Indread

Can anyone suggest a vintage receiver that could be obtained for $150 or under? I was looking for the Realitic STA-2200, but that's hard to locate and also often out of my price range.
   
  I'm looking for something with a great sounding headphone out to drive my Fostex orthos, and great amp to drive my Electrets.
   
  I'm hoping for a receiver that is not too hard to find online.


----------



## Skylab

Do you live in an area with an active Craigslist?  In that price range, saving the money on shipping is super important.  These things tend to be heavy. 
   
  There are lots of potentially good options. The best recommendation I have is see what comes up locally, then search AudioKarma for opinions on it and/or ask about it here.


----------



## woody88

well guys, after the seller offered $100 to resolve my "problem", and I told him that I just wanted to return the receiver on 5/7, I have not heard back from him since. 3 full business days was plenty in my opinion for email return. At this time, I had opened a case with eBay buyer protection, we shall see what happens. Wish me luck!


----------



## jjacq

Hello guys,
   
  I would like to know how to choose receivers or amps because I have a few offers for less than $100. I was set to get the Kenwood KR 6600 / 6060 for $75 but someone else is selling me a Pioneer SX 636 for $100. I would just like to know how I check for the better value before getting one?

 Thanks!


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> well guys, after the seller offered $100 to resolve my "problem", and I told him that I just wanted to return the receiver on 5/7, I have not heard back from him since. 3 full business days was plenty in my opinion for email return. At this time, I had opened a case with eBay buyer protection, we shall see what happens. Wish me luck!


 

 good luck. This sort of thing is irritating, often I haven't bothered  due to low value on an item but this time I say roast them for all it's worth, too bad you have to waste your time and energy though.


----------



## Majestyk

> Can anyone suggest a vintage receiver that could be obtained for $150 or under? I was looking for the Realitic STA-2200, but that's hard to locate and also often out of my price range.
> 
> I'm looking for something with a great sounding headphone out to drive my Fostex orthos, and great amp to drive my Electrets.
> 
> I'm hoping for a receiver that is not too hard to find online.


 
   
  I can't speak for your headphones but I bought a Yamaha CR-620 for my 600Ohm AKG K240's and I was blown away.  It beats any dedicated headphone amp I've owned but I've only had a few under $500.  It has an almost tube like sound with tons of bass.
   
   


> This might be a silly question, but what are the pots? and by switches, do you mean the literal switches on the front of the amplifier?


 
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## Rawrbington

After spending a day with the marantz 1060 Id have to recommend it to anyone on a budget that doesn't care about fm radio.im not sure if it's possible that it sounds better than my 2245 because I think they are almost the same inside less 15 watts. But so far with the speakers I think I prefer it.

My cr 640 is also no slouch for a 100 dollar bill. I wish it was a 620 though. The 620 is supposed to be able to be operated on. The 640 I think may have some unobtainium parts in it. And yam got the look right with those late 70s receivers. Simply beautiful


----------



## moodyrn

There's one in my are for 125.00 I've been keeping an eye on. Given your impressions, I'm really tempted now.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I would like to know how to choose receivers or amps because I have a few offers for less than $100. I was set to get the Kenwood KR 6600 / 6060 for $75 but someone else is selling me a Pioneer SX 636 for $100. I would just like to know how I check for the better value before getting one?
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  I would suggest test them with your phones!! 
   
  But based on the two choice you have, I would say Kenwood KR-6600 will be a better choice. They all have warm vintage sound. Kenwood is a little dark and more smooth. Pioneer is a bit more dynamic and airy. Looking upon ePay, Pioneer has edage over Kenwood on price with corresponding models. But I think 6600 has more power than 636 (check online yourself). And 6600 looks very cool to me.
  Please note, YMMV since each vintage piece sounds different. I gave my suggestion based on my experience.


----------



## woody88

Sigh....looks like seller is going to try to get away from scamming me. Just got this from ebay customer support:
   
  "The seller has asked eBay Customer Support to review this case and make a final decision.







  We'll review the case details, such as messages sent in the Resolutions Center about this case and other emails sent through eBay between you and the seller. If we have questions, we'll get in touch with you. We'll get back to you within 72 hours."
   
  I guess we'll see how it pan out. If somehow eBay had the nerve to side with seller, where can I voice my concern to, Paypal?


----------



## BmWr75

Very doubtful they will take the sellers side.


----------



## jjacq

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I would suggest test them with your phones!!
> 
> But based on the two choice you have, I would say Kenwood KR-6600 will be a better choice. They all have warm vintage sound. Kenwood is a little dark and more smooth. Pioneer is a bit more dynamic and airy. Looking upon ePay, Pioneer has edage over Kenwood on price with corresponding models. But I think 6600 has more power than 636 (check online yourself). And 6600 looks very cool to me.
> Please note, YMMV since each vintage piece sounds different. I gave my suggestion based on my experience.


 
   
  Thanks! I contacted the guy yesterday and picking it up tuesday because he works on Monday. I also have this zombie-fied Sansui 1000A that I got free with the turntable I got and I'd like to ask if this still has any hope? Unfortunately there are no people South Florida that fixes it and I've called a bunch of stores. I'm trying to figure out if basic soldering skills can get me anywhere. It does turn on and plays(I used a line in source) but it's muddy and it's really obvious that it's in a lot of pain. Currently a fellow head-fi-er is helping me gather up information to replace transistors and clean it up, I just want to know if other people have any input as well. Thanks.


----------



## monoethylene

My 2265B is near to be ready. Replaced all lamps as well as the capacitors on the Power Supply Board. The Woodcase is still in work . I will check the phonostage too because I will use it. So far the sound of the hp out with my T1s is really wonderful!! As source the Thorens TD125 is used right now.


----------



## Skylab

Looking good!


----------



## monoethylene

And it really sounds good


----------



## Indread

There is a Harman Kardon 254 for $55 I could purchase, but it only powers on and seems to be frozen and unoperational.
   
  Any ideas how I could fix this?
   
  The volume knob changes the volume display, but the mode is stuck on Dolby.


----------



## wualta

Quote:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *Indread* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Can anyone suggest a vintage receiver that could be obtained for $150 or under? I was looking for the Realitic STA-2200, but that's hard to locate and also often out of my price range.
> 
> I'm looking for something with a great sounding headphone out to drive my Fostex orthos, and great amp to drive my Electrets.


 
   
  Skylab's advice was excellent. If you live in or near a big city, scan the Craiglist ads and see what's _available_, because it could be weeks before a specific recommendation we might make actually shows up. Just stick with the big brands and realize from the start that popular stuff like Marantz and Pioneer is going to cost you more, and that you don't need more than 50 or 60 watts per channel.

   
  Failing that, just for fun, try the search terms *realistic receiver sta-* -ad* -revi* -owne* *in the online auction site of your choice and see what's offered in your price range. Browse. If one looks good to you, do a search for owner-authored pros and cons. You also have the amazing resource _www.radioshackcatalogs.com._
   
  The Yamaha CR-620 is another decent receiver that happens to look great, but right at the outset you don't need to be picky about anything but condition and operability. You're not looking to buy the last amp you'll ever own, not just yet. You simply want to get started.
   
  Ideally, you want to buy locally from a crusty old guy who hasn't had anyone to talk stereo gear with for the past 40 years and will tell you _everything_ about the thing he's selling, good and bad. And you'll get to try the thing out. Bring something portable with a credible line out and your headphones and load the source with music you're intimately familiar with, keeping in mind that no portable source I've ever seen is particularly strong in the bass, even with the line out. Me, I use my trusty old Sony D-EJ715 CD portable and a good-quality medium-capacitance patch cord so I can plug right into the AUX input of the thing I'm auditioning. Also bring a headphone plug adapter to fit into the quarter-inch 'phone jack on the receiver. It's doable! Good luck.
   
  PS: That Harman-Kardon is exactly the kind of thing you want to avoid!


----------



## Indread

That's hilarious; I guess I figured it could be fixed and used for my home theater system. Even $55 seems hefty for a box of metal though.
   
  Thanks Skylab, you, and everyone else for the excellent advice. I'll look into Craigslist and try those keyword searches to get me started.
   
  Would it be safe to assume that most vintage receivers use some kind of resistors inline to drop the power for the headphone out?


----------



## AppleDappleman

.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





indread said:


> That's hilarious; I guess I figured it could be fixed and used for my home theater system. Even $55 seems hefty for a box of metal though.
> 
> Would it be safe to assume that most vintage receivers use some kind of resistors inline to drop the power for the headphone out?


 
   
  At this stage of the game, the most arduous thing you could do would be to buy a piece of junk and then have to figure out how to fix it. Not good unless you know someone who's willing to plunge into diagnosis and repair and be paid in cookies. Don't be afraid to demand stuff that works and doesn't smell bad.
   
  Most receivers and amps either use what are called "dropping" resistors (what you term "inline" but a tech guy would call "series"), or, better, a simple resistor network called an L-pad. You can build your own resistor network and tailor it to the impedance of your headphones. Koss and Pioneer (and others) made "couplers" or "junction boxes", which is this circuit in a little box that wires up to an amp's speaker terminals. Pioneer's was the JB-21, which used to be common as dirt at online auction. Bottom line: There are simple ways to get this resistor mojo working no matter which amp/receiver you get.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> .... I also have this zombie-fied Sansui 1000A that I got free with the turntable I got and I'd like to ask if this still has any hope? Unfortunately there are no people South Florida that fixes it and I've called a bunch of stores. I'm trying to figure out if basic soldering skills can get me anywhere. It does turn on and plays(I used a line in source) but it's muddy and it's really obvious that it's in a lot of pain. Currently a fellow head-fi-er is helping me gather up information to replace transistors and clean it up, I just want to know if other people have any input as well. Thanks.


 
  There's always hope!
   
  This may be obvious, but have you checked the tubes? You mention transistors, but this is a "Tube" amp although I think there are some transistors in the tone control circuit. Muddy sound could very well be output or pre-amp tubes that are well past their useful life.
   
  Good tubes and strategic re-cap and I would bet this would be a gem!


----------



## DefQon

Anybody here had any experience with some vintage McLaren 602 and 702 pre/amp and integrated amp, supposedly they made high end gear about 20 or so years ago?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





indread said:


> There is a Harman Kardon 254 for $55 I could purchase, but it only powers on and seems to be frozen and unoperational.
> 
> Any ideas how I could fix this?
> 
> The volume knob changes the volume display, but the mode is stuck on Dolby.


 
   
  Wualta's advice is good.
   
  There are amps that would be worth taking a chance on buying in a nonfunctional state. But if this is not a model that you personally covet and are willing to make an effort to own, and it's not a model that is sufficiently rare or popular that the repair costs plus purchase price would still be in the ballpark of the market value of a properly restored unit, pass on it. There are relatively few receivers that are going to meet those criteria.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Thanks! I contacted the guy yesterday and picking it up tuesday because he works on Monday. I also have this zombie-fied Sansui 1000A that I got free with the turntable I got and I'd like to ask if this still has any hope? Unfortunately there are no people South Florida that fixes it and I've called a bunch of stores. I'm trying to figure out if basic soldering skills can get me anywhere. It does turn on and plays(I used a line in source) but it's muddy and it's really obvious that it's in a lot of pain. Currently a fellow head-fi-er is helping me gather up information to replace transistors and clean it up, I just want to know if other people have any input as well. Thanks.


 
   
  I'm not familiar with this model, but I'd bet there's a Sansui-head or two on Audiokarma that could help.
   
  That looks like a tubed receiver through-and-through, and those aren't common (albeit not totally popular among receiver fans either, aside from a few high-end models; they're too obscure and low-powered to garner word-of-mouth popularity). The cluster of tubes and transformers at the bottom of the picture is the output stage (that drives the speakers); the circuitry above it is for the preamp stages and tuner.
   
  The best way to get something like that back into working condition -- short of shipping it away to a repair shop -- is to ask at music shops. Guitar shops that do amp repairs, or old-fashioned family-owned keyboard-and-organ shops. My old Scott and Fisher amps were tuned up by a guy in his eighties who still maintains a few of the church organs in town. He had no interest in helping me until I showed him what I had, and his eyes lit up...
   
  The guys who worked on receivers like yours when they were new are in their seventies and eighties now. Many are retired, but more than a couple of them still keep their hands busy working on things like this. They won't necessarily bring your equipment up to audiophile expectations, and are probably not going to be interested in wasting their time cleaning it up and making it showroom-pretty, but they can get them working reliably again, and that's often the hardest part of the job.


----------



## estreeter

Must-be-strong .....
   

   

   

   
  Repeat after me
  - tubes are nothing but an invitation to spend money
  - tubes equal maintenance
  - tubes are for rich kids
   
  At least I wouldn't have to look at the beastly things ....
   

   
  Fortunately, I'm strong enough to fend all of the above off.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I'm not familiar with this model, but I'd bet there's a Sansui-head or two on Audiokarma that could help.
> 
> That looks like a tubed receiver through-and-through, and those aren't common (albeit not totally popular among receiver fans either, aside from a few high-end models; they're too obscure and low-powered to garner word-of-mouth popularity). The cluster of tubes and transformers at the bottom of the picture is the output stage (that drives the speakers); the circuitry above it is for the preamp stages and tuner.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Back in the 60s, my grandfather would pick up junked electronics, refurbish them, usually just by replacing a few tubes, and sell them.


----------



## Skylab

The good thing about vintage tube gear is that it may indeed only require a new tube or two to get it working.

Tube receivers were not plentiful, and frankly, many were really problematic. It's tough to stuff that many tubes in a chassis. Tuners required a lot of tubes. For vintage, I prefer separate integrateds and tuners (if you even want a tuner). I'm actually getting a Fisher 50b tuner on Monday that matches my KX-100 - looking forward to that.


----------



## estreeter

Rob, I can feel Cayin extracting my credit card from my wallet. Damn them and their retro styling - who knew that a Chinese company operating out of Germany could be so devious ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Wouldnt it be great if a few more companies got on the retro bandwagon ? I know looks dont equal sound, but the noughties obsession with industrial chic _minimalism_ in amp design doesn't do it for me. As for wooden casework, color me a drooling, dribbling mess of a man.  Its politically sensitive, but we have some hardwoods here in Oz that would make any vintage receiver an instant talking point in any home - even for the fairer sex, a group notoriously unmoved by audio jewelry. As I've always said, if you want to impress a girl, show her you've got wood.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah those Cayins in wood are quite the lookers! There are a couple Luxman pieces styled like that too...but those are big bucks.


----------



## wualta

Cayin's next fashion move: Amplifiers in Leather.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Cayin's next fashion move: Amplifiers in Leather.


 
   
  Rowr .... not a fan, I take it.


----------



## wualta

Making fans out of leather? Must be a British thing.


----------



## monoethylene

Right now I have finished it finally  
   
  Restored Woodcase, lamps, capacitors, potis, etc. Sound brilliant


----------



## Silent One

"Hot number!"


----------



## Rawrbington

Man that 2265 is a looker. Beautiful!

I stumbled into a 2235b this morning. Has a few lights out and was suffering from heat exhaustion. Because of this I got it for a nice discount. Did some searching once home. Read up on bias and idle current. Made some adjustments and hooray! Sounds fantastic and runs much cooler now! Feels awesome to fix something like that myself


----------



## monoethylene

Yeahh 
   
  It is always fun to fix sth..
   
  Now, I have the 1122DC + Fisher 200B and the Marantz 2265B. Both are working with Thorens turntables.
   
  The Fisher is my next project and I will start tomorrow by replacing the caps and the bridge and a few other things.
   
  Nevertheless the Fisher and the 1122DC both need new woodcases..


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Man that 2265 is a looker. Beautiful!
> I stumbled into a 2235b this morning. Has a few lights out and was suffering from heat exhaustion. Because of this I got it for a nice discount. Did some searching once home. Read up on bias and idle current. Made some adjustments and hooray! Sounds fantastic and runs much cooler now! Feels awesome to fix something like that myself


 
   
  That'll help you ride a wave of confidence! And will open up more possibilities to boot.


----------



## Skylab

rawrbington said:


> I stumbled into a 2235b this morning. Has a few lights out and was suffering from heat exhaustion. Because of this I got it for a nice discount. Did some searching once home. Read up on bias and idle current. Made some adjustments and hooray! Sounds fantastic and runs much cooler now! Feels awesome to fix something like that myself




Good on ya! That is indeed a good feeling. Now get some LEDs and fix the dead lights and you will be very happy


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Got my amp all fixed up, thanks to everyone in this thread who helped! Sounds absolutely incredible with my Grados, a markedly different sound than with my Asgard, cannot wait to try it with the HE-500's. Only thing left to do is clean the faceplate, finish sanding the bottom cover and find a replacement top cover. Again, thanks everyone!


----------



## AppleDappleman

marantz 2235 in perfect working order for $185 a good price?


----------



## Skylab

Its a decent price for one that is fully functional in every way AND has good cosmetics. It's not a huge bargain, but a fair price. I fixed up a 2235b recently, nice sounding receiver. 

It would be most tempting at that price if its local to you...


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Its a decent price for one that is fully functional in every way AND has good cosmetics. It's not a huge bargain, but a fair price. I fixed up a 2235b recently, nice sounding receiver.
> It would be most tempting at that price if its local to you...


 
  I guess i'll wait til I find a good bargain. If its just soldering to fix it then that shouldn't be a problem if I buy a cheapo one, I'm sure one day another one will come up at a decent price. 

 Its an hour drive haha. I'll just wait it out since I'm still in the process learning about turntables and what to look for. It was going to be my purely vinyl amp. I'm still dreaming hahaha


----------



## brokenthumb

Skylab I was told to ask you about this.
   
  I have a Pioneer VSX-455 I received as part of a graduation present in 1997 and the specs state 110 Watts into each channel.  I've been using my E9 with the HE-500 but decided to try the headphone jack on the Pioneer and it sounds better than the E9.  Everything seems more dynamic, I made sure to level match both so they were at the same volume.  It's not a huge difference, but it is noticeable.  The Pioneer feels like it powers the HE-500 better but I thought receivers weren't good with headphones?
   
  So is this basically the same thing as using the HE-Adapter or would I have better results with the adapter connecting it to the speaker terminals?


----------



## Skylab

First of all, whoever said receivers were not good for headphones did not know what they were talking about.

It all depends on the design of the receiver. If the headphone out is derived right from the main power amp, receivers (and integrated amps) have the capacity to sound as good, or better, than dedicated headphone amps. many of us in this thread use vintage amps and receivers because they almost always derive the headphone out from the main power amp, and very often sound very good.

With more modern receivers and IAs, some of these use separate op-amp based headphone outs. Those can be ok, sometimes even good, but they are often underpowered and not so great, and in this case, the speaker outs can be a better option. But some modern units still use the main amp for headphones. I have no way to know which your Pioneer does, but if it sounds good to you, that is truly all that matters! There is no reason why it shouldn't.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





skylab said:


> First of all, whoever said receivers were not good for headphones did not know what they were talking about.
> It all depends on the design of the receiver. If the headphone out is derived right from the main power amp, receivers (and integrated amps) have the capacity to sound as good, or better, than dedicated headphone amps. many of us in this thread use vintage amps and receivers because they almost always derive the headphone out from the main power amp, and very often sound very good.
> With more modern receivers and IAs, some of these use separate op-amp based headphone outs. Those can be ok, sometimes even good, but they are often underpowered and not so great, and in this case, the speaker outs can be a better option. But some modern units still use the main amp for headphones. I have no way to know which your Pioneer does, but if it sounds good to you, that is truly all that matters! There is no reason why it shouldn't.


 
   
  Thank you very much for that explanation.
   
  Those 70's Marantz amps are real eye-catchers and if they sound as good as they look I may look into one of those instead of any more dedicated headphone amps.  I had a Burson HA-160 amp not too long ago and the Pioneer sounds better from memory.  I also use the phono stage in the Pioneer so that kills to birds with one stone, I'm sure the Marantz phono stage would be even better.  I'm going to go back and start reading this thread from the beginning.  Very interested now.


----------



## Rawrbington

fwiw the headphone amp on my 2245 sounds noticably better than the headphone amp on the 2235B.
   
  could be power related by i suspect its just the circuitry of the original run of the 22xx series vs the circuitry of the later builds in that series


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *brokenthumb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I thought receivers weren't good with headphones?


 
  You need to tell us who told you this so we can have them shot. The reason vintage stuff is so good with some of the new orthos is that it was built for a world full of low-efficiency speakers and headphones, so it's bulked up for delivering lots of current, and in an ortho, current equals strong magnetic fields. But as you can probably tell, there's a certain kind of gleam that old receivers give off, so they've become enjoyable simply for what they are.


----------



## brokenthumb

Quote: 





wualta said:


> You need to tell us who told you this so we can have them shot. The reason vintage stuff is so good with some of the new orthos is that it was built for a world full of low-efficiency speakers and headphones, so it's bulked up for delivering lots of current, and in an ortho, current equals strong magnetic fields. But as you can probably tell, there's a certain kind of gleam that old receivers give off, so they've become enjoyable simply for what they are.


 
   
  I guess I formed that opinion when I was browsing this site a few years ago and read some post that headphone outs on receivers were an afterthought and even a cheap dedicated headphone amp was the way to go.  It's nice to be wrong though b/c I already have three receivers on hand to try out.  I have a Onkyo 604b and a Panasonic XR-25 in addition to the Pioneer VSX-455.  I will do some research on these receivers and see if I can find any specs on the headphone output.


----------



## trentino

Anyone tried Hifiman HE500 with a vintage Marantz?  HE500 supposedly is pretty  easy to drive but still benefits a lot from power, from what I understand. HE6 is too expensive for me but the H500 got a nice price now fter the price cut (was it last year?)


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





brokenthumb said:


> I guess I formed that opinion when I was browsing this site a few years ago and read some post that headphone outs on receivers were an afterthought and even a cheap dedicated headphone amp was the way to go.  It's nice to be wrong though b/c I already have three receivers on hand to try out.  I have a Onkyo 604b and a Panasonic XR-25 in addition to the Pioneer VSX-455.  I will do some research on these receivers and see if I can find any specs on the headphone output.


 
  Ah. Understandable. This is sadly true of far too many *modern* mid-line AV receivers from, say, the last decade. It's happily _not_ true of stuff from the '70s and '80s and some stuff from the early '90s.
   
  You can't blame the manufacturers. Audio, that is, audio by itself, without video, went from king of the heap to sitting alone in a closet with the rise of the PC and home theater.
   
  Yay XR25! The headphone out has some limitations, but the speaker outs work very nicely. I get a real kick out of my Panasonics-- they look so cheap (and they were, used) but they sound so good.


----------



## Meewoo

Hello wualta,
  How many hidden gems you know (have)? Could you share the info here?
  I looked upon Pioneer VSX-455 and XR-25 listed above and couldn't get impression from them. I know I shouldn't judge sound from look, but they aren't TOTL in their ages. Educate me please!!


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> First of all, whoever said receivers were not good for headphones did not know what they were talking about.
> It all depends on the design of the receiver. If the headphone out is derived right from the main power amp, receivers (and integrated amps) have the capacity to sound as good, or better, than dedicated headphone amps. many of us in this thread use vintage amps and receivers because they almost always derive the headphone out from the main power amp, and very often sound very good.
> With more modern receivers and IAs, some of these use separate op-amp based headphone outs. Those can be ok, sometimes even good, but they are often underpowered and not so great, and in this case, the speaker outs can be a better option. But some modern units still use the main amp for headphones. I have no way to know which your Pioneer does, but if it sounds good to you, that is truly all that matters! There is no reason why it shouldn't.


 
   
  Apologies, Rob - I sent the lad over here without running it past you first - I know you dont answer unsolicited PMs so I thought this was the best way forward. Thanks for setting him straight - we can thank the legion of Head-Fiers who like to pass 'accepted wisdom' on for his unfortunate lack of knowledge. I'm with Wualta - we need to have the b*stards shot.


----------



## Skylab

I'm glad you directed him here! We all got a chance to set things straight


----------



## Rawrbington

Ok. Kinda feel like an idiot here but I decided to clean up the face of my sansui 8080. I thought it was supposed to have a sort of champagne color to it. Turns out I think it was just old smoke. Anyways, anybody got a good method for doing this?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Meewoo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> How many hidden gems you know (have)? Could you share the info here? I looked upon Pioneer VSX-455 and XR-25 listed above and couldn't get impression from them.


 
  The Panasonic all-digital receivers are weird-- they shouldn't have happened, but they did. Anyway, the models all started with* SA-XR*. So there was SA-XR10, 25, 45, 50, 55, 57 and 70. Toward the end there was an XR700. These used to be relatively cheap ($100 or less, plus ship), but seem to've disappeared from the ol' auction site except for some overpriced ones, which is sad. How did I discover these? From this 2003 newsletter from the Newform Research (isodynamic speakers) site: http://www.newformresearch.com/updateaug03.htm   Might as well look up _Equibit_, _PurePath_, _Toccata_ and _Texas Instruments_ while we're waiting for more to show up. When these were cheap, I got one of these receivers for everybody in my family.
   
  Panasonic wasn't the only mfr making class-D receivers. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=417894 .
   
  If you fish for "sleeper" brands like Hitachi and Kyocera and Sanyo and Sherwood and Optonica, and you're a careful and patient tightwad shopper, you can get some good deals online. Those of you lucky enough to live in cities where people didn't buy junk should of course check the local online ads with an open mind-- you never know what'll turn up.
   
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I thought it was supposed to have a sort of champagne color to it. Turns out I think it was just old smoke. Anyways, anybody got a good method for doing this?


 
   
  Cigarette smoke is mostly oils and resins. Ammonia water will dissolve it nicely, and a little all-purpose cleaner or liquid laundry detergent added to the ammonia water will keep it in suspension so you can mop it off the faceplate. Try a weak solution first and work your way up.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





wualta said:


> If you fish for "sleeper" brands like Hitachi and Kyocera and Sanyo and Sherwood and Optonica, and you're a careful and patient tightwad shopper, you can get some good deals online. Those of you lucky enough to live in cities where people didn't buy junk should of course check the local online ads with an open mind-- you never know what'll turn up.


 
   
  If you're diligent, you can also get cheaper, good equipment from the more generally-respected manufacturers as well, by keeping an eye out for models that aren't getting the attention that their more popular TOTL brethren are. For example, the Harman/Kardon HK670, which followed the HK730 and actually got some grudging love from the high-end audio community at the time, but these days tends to be ignored in favor of its immediate predecessor (the HK730) (hey, I've got one and think it's great, although it needs servicing at the moment; anything this old does, so that's not a reflection on its quality). Or when a given receiver is popular, see if the company made an integrated amp that's effectively identical to it aside from the lack of a tuner. Or vice versa.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, a little research can go a LONG way to saving money.  For example, while the Pioneer SX-1980 and 1280 get all the pub, the SX-1080 and 980 are basically in the same build quality, just a few less features, and less power, but in many cases still far more than enough, and they sell for MUCH less than the two TOTL models. Heck you can score a really nice SX-980 for $300, and it's a terrific unit.  Below the 980 in that line-up, the units were less well built (although still quite good).  So that's just one example of where knowing where the units in a lineup stack up, and what your exact requirements for power are, can really help save money.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Panasonic wasn't the only mfr making class-D receivers. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=417894 .
> 
> If you fish for "sleeper" brands like Hitachi and Kyocera and Sanyo and Sherwood and Optonica, and you're a careful and patient tightwad shopper, you can get some good deals online. Those of you lucky enough to live in cities where people didn't buy junk should of course check the local online ads with an open mind-- you never know what'll turn up.


 
   
  Knowledge is power! And thanks lot for all info!!
   
  When I was drooling NAD M2 power amp, I learned class-D and digital amp. But I think I can't get them for cheap now since it's a new technology. After read your link,  I just realize I have a digital receiver at hand. I get Sony AVD-S50ES at my bedroom with Celestion DL-4 s2, and they sounds great with very clean and transparent sound. And I like the headphone output of the receiver too. And I think the headphone output is also powerful too since it can drive my AKG 240 like other receivers. Although I expect a little more warm sound from the receiver, but I can say it sounds nearly as good as Denon PMA-770. They all share almost same tone, but Denon has more punchy bass, a little more dynamic and wider sound-stage.
   
  You mentioned Sanyo, do you have a list of good models? At my local, old Hitachi's with MOSFET are asking high price. Kyocera and Optonica are under my radar, but they are very rare. Sherwood appears very often, but not Newcastle series.


----------



## Pudu

skylab said:


> Yeah, a little research can go a LONG way to saving money.  For example, while the Pioneer SX-1980 and 1280 get all the pub, the SX-1080 and 980 are basically in the same build quality, just a few less features, and less power, but in many cases still far more than enough, and they sell for MUCH less than the two TOTL models. Heck you can score a really nice SX-980 for $300, and it's a terrific unit.  Below the 980 in that line-up, the units were less well built (although still quite good).  So that's just one example of where knowing where the units in a lineup stack up, and what your exact requirements for power are, can really help save money.





Nice call on that one - the 980 I snagged a few weeks ago was almost exactly that much after replacing a couple of bulbs. My logic was I don't need the extra oomph as it will be doing headphone duty for the most part. There was a sx-1010, 2285b and a 2275 available locally as well but they were more moola (two of them double the price) and in worse condition - the 980 is in extremely good condition - and I liked the look of the Pioneer far more. It sounds great, looks wonderful and is built like a tank. Keep an open mind about what you want.

I'm very pleased I went with this big fella. 



(yes, I need to take a new photo  )


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You mentioned Sanyo, do you have a list of good models? At my local, old Hitachi's with MOSFET are asking high price. Kyocera and Optonica are under my radar, but they are very rare. Sherwood appears very often, but not Newcastle series.


 
   
  Sanyo (now part of Panasonic) popped up into what we might call the lower high end around 1980 with its Plus Series. It wasn't a marketing success in the US, so it disappeared after a few years. Outside the US market, who knows what you'll find. What I know about are the P55 power amp and the matching C55 preamp. There were also a T55 tuner and a D64 cassette deck and several turntables. Sherwood did something similar with the S-6040CP power amp which had a matching preamp, tuner, cassette deck, timer, etc. Then there was the AM-7040 200w/ch amp and the weird but good AP-7020 preamp.


----------



## Meewoo

Cool, will put those model under my radar!!


----------



## estreeter

At the other end of the scale - decidedly _unpretty_ but still very collectible - I find myself drawn to the NAD 3130 integrated. Hardly 'vintage' by the standards of a lot of the gear here, its so plain that I cant take my eyes off the thing. The other thing is that anything which gets that kind of following and looks so drab has to be good sonically, right fellas ? Fellas ?
   
  <crickets chirping>


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> At the other end of the scale - decidedly _unpretty_ but still very collectible - I find myself drawn to the NAD 3130 integrated. Hardly 'vintage' by the standards of a lot of the gear here, its so plain that I cant take my eyes off the thing. The other thing is that anything which gets that kind of following and looks so drab has to be good sonically, right fellas ? Fellas ?
> 
> <crickets chirping>


 

 I have NAD 3140 and like it. I would suggest you go for 3140 or 3150, they all have twin power transformers. I think 3150 is the same line as 3130, 3140 is earlier than them. Or you can go 3020, I had 7020 before, it's really a solid unit.


----------



## estreeter

3020 seems a little common, but I would be happy with any of 3130,3140 or 3150. Thanks for your insight.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, a little research can go a LONG way to saving money.  For example, while the Pioneer SX-1980 and 1280 get all the pub, the SX-1080 and 980 are basically in the same build quality, just a few less features, and less power, but in many cases still far more than enough, and they sell for MUCH less than the two TOTL models. Heck you can score a really nice SX-980 for $300, and it's a terrific unit.  Below the 980 in that line-up, the units were less well built (although still quite good).  So that's just one example of where knowing where the units in a lineup stack up, and what your exact requirements for power are, can really help save money.


 
   
   
  Curiously, using the vintage Pioneer SX- series, which model at minimum will make the HE-6 cans sing? I brought the HiFiMan's in to audition with my SX-650, but I was left sitting on the curb. I wasn't locked out of my home, just gathering my thoughts on what it takes. I'm not limited to Pioneer but since I'm familiar with the line-up, I'm using it as a guide.
   
  All last year I kept hearing how great these cans were. In one ear and out the next. Didn't bother me, I was out having my own enjoyment, appreciating what I've got. And happy for those other owners too. Until, someone whispered _"It'll serve you tea & park your car"_...... well then! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Now we're interested.


----------



## Skylab

From the SX-x80 series, the 980 is where things start to get really good, IMHO. I'm less familiar with the other units in the x50 series aside from my beloved 1250., but certainly the 1050 and 950 would do nicely.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, this helps a lot!


----------



## jjacq

My new receiver says hi!


   
  I'm still waiting for my sansui to be cleaned then I'm going to be deciding which one to keep. I really like this receiver when paired with my D2000's and I'm very very excited to hear them paired with the Sansui 1000A.
   
  I do however, hear hissing when not playing music, is this normal? The hissing is not that bad but it bothers me a bit.


----------



## Rawrbington

Yeah the hissing is normal. Some models are worse than others. But it's not bad. My sansui likes to do that. Several people here recommended using the -20 db switch. And it helps a lot.

Very nice piece btw. Love the look of those square switches.

I'm interested to hear how you like the sansui with the denons. I've been courting the idea of either a 2000 or 5000


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> My new receiver says hi!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Kenwood Kr-xx40 or xx60? Couldn't see from pic. Congrats!
   
  Cleaning all pots and headphone output normally will eliminate hiss. If you only hear hiss from Denon (sensitive cans), then use -20db button on receiver.


----------



## wualta

Residual hiss (ie, the kind you hear when the volume is all the way down) is a function of the sensitivity of your headphones. Or speakers-- there were times in the old days when if you put your ear up to the tweeter you could hear the amp's residual hiss in a quiet room if the speakers were more efficient than the usual acoustic-suspension types, but this was considered acceptable, since any room noise would swamp the hiss.
   
  Hiss comes from gain stages and I suppose if you went through and plucked out all the resistors in the preamp section's signal path and replaced them with low-noise types, you'd probably hear an improvement, but it's not necessary. If the amp/receiver has a -20dB pad, use it. If not, you can buy an inline volume control for your headphone which is pretty much the same thing but continuously variable. Just dial out the hiss. What you're doing is adjusting the sensitivity of your headphone.
   
  Failing that, you can easily build a pad. Scroll halfway down this page:http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/faqs.htm  Rod Elliott adds something extra to make it a T-pad and throws in a headphones/speakers switch:http://sound.westhost.com/project100.htm


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





wualta said:


> If not, you can buy an inline volume control for your headphone which is pretty much the same thing but continuously variable. Just dial out the hiss. What you're doing is adjusting the sensitivity of your headphone.


 
   
  Where does one find one of those?


----------



## hamburgerladdy

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Hiss comes from gain stages and I suppose if you went through and plucked out all the resistors in the preamp section's signal path and replaced them with low-noise types, you'd probably hear an improvement, but it's not necessary. If the amp/receiver has a -20dB pad, use it. If not, you can buy an inline volume control for your headphone which is pretty much the same thing but continuously variable. Just dial out the hiss. What you're doing is adjusting the sensitivity of your headphone.


 
  Okay, I have a 1985 amplifier (not receiver, I know) that has this hiss. Would a $10 Koss VC20 remove or lessen this noise?


----------



## BGRoberts

I have one from Senheisser that works pretty well.
  Gives individual channel volume control, which is nice if your ears don't both hear quite the same.
 Bought it on Amazon.  Sennheiser HZR-62 Stereo Volume Control   
   
  Quote: 





manveru said:


> Where does one find one of those?


----------



## wualta

Yep, the Koss VC20 (Amazon sells it) will do the job, though it's for 3.5mm plugs and jacks. Radio Shack used to sell its own version of the Koss and might even have something for quarter-inch plugs and jacks. I know the Koss works because I used the inline control on my Koss KTX Pro headphones to dial out residual hiss in my portable MiniDisc gear. It should do the same for anyone else.
   
  Oh, and beware of the psychoacoustic phenomenon of thinking the treble is being cut off because the hiss is gone!


----------



## manveru

Quote:  
  Quote: 





wualta said:


> Oh, and beware of the psychoacoustic phenomenon of thinking the treble is being cut off because the hiss is gone!


 
   
  Will do 
   
  Just one thing I'm concerned about. I've had experience in the past with headphones that have a volume control like that built into the cable. They are usually pretty cheapy and made all kinds of crackly noises and channel imbalance. Either of you ever experience anything like that with either of those controllers you mentioned?


----------



## wualta

At that price, the VC20 isn't a precision attenuator, but I don't recall trouble with channel mistracking, which most often occurs at the extremes. Now, does anyone make a _audiophile_ inline volume control? I don't know, but I'll bet someone does. If they don't, they should!


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





manveru said:


> Will do
> 
> Just one thing I'm concerned about. I've had experience in the past with headphones that have a volume control like that built into the cable. They are usually pretty cheapy and made all kinds of crackly noises and channel imbalance. Either of you ever experience anything like that with either of those controllers you mentioned?


 
   
  The Senn has been totally quiet for me.  No crackling that I've ever noticed.


----------



## BGRoberts

btw... It's also very long....20 feet if I recall right.


----------



## manveru

It wouldn't necessarily need to be "audiophile" quality, just so long as it doesn't have noticeable channel imbalance or anything. Thanks for the tips guys.


----------



## woody88

well guys, a little bit of update on my ebay transaction. Last Friday, I was told that ebay will take 72 hrs and make a final decision. Today, I got an email from highvaleclaimsinfo at ebay, stating that they are holding this case until 5/23, as they are in need of more photos to prove that seller did not describe the item accurately. So off I do with my camera to take some photos and send it to ebay. I certainly hope they standards for judging "some small scratches" and "heavy, deep gouges" are of the same standard as mine. I'll let you guys know more of my adventure once I hear back from them after I sent out my photos.


----------



## Majestyk

^  I'm surprised to hear that but they'll probably still side in your favor without hardly looking at them.


----------



## Rawrbington

I think it will turn out fine for you.  Be sure to let them know that with these vintage items condition is everything.
   
  oh btw i still haven't seen hide nor hair of my 2250B that i paid the guy in the Montreal suburb for.  I have been unable to reach him by phone and he won't return my emails.  never provided a tracking number.  I paid him 3 weeks ago this sunday.  Monday if its not on my porch when i get home from work im opening a case against him and filing a complaint on Canuck audio.  Don't wan't anyone else being scammed by this guy either.
   
   
  i just installed the blue led's in my 2235B.  Not sure what i think about them.  It REALLY blue.  They arne't the regular white leds they are the ones custom made blue by somebody.  can't remember who.
   
  it doesn't look bad at all. Just so much different than my 2245 which has had new vellum paper and new incandecent bulbs put in it. The 2245 looks more original,  more of a dark torquoise or seafoam blue.  where as these leds are straight dark blue.  the dark blue is actually slightly harder to read in the daylight but i haven't seen them in the dark yet.  bet its sweet.
   
  anythings better than the dull green that they were


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Now, does anyone make a _audiophile_ inline volume control? I don't know, but I'll bet someone does. If they don't, they should!


 

 Sounds like a great business opportunity.
   
  Take the guts out of the VC20 and put them in a brushed aluminum case with cursive lettering on the case. Mount the case on a solid maple isolation platform with 3 conical brass feet. Market it through Mapleshade or MusicDirect and charge $1200 for it.
   
  Audiophiles will be lining up to buy them...


----------



## estreeter

You could always do what Ray did - *scan in his name, address and a copy of the payment in question* - in Ray's case, it was a bounced check from a customer, but you can see where I'm going with this. I google-mapped the address, and the satellite image points to a *tree* on a semi-rural subdivision in Kempner, Texas. Not sure whether it was an inside job with the Postal workers (great track record, guys), but they certainly hardened Ray's attitude to customers-bearing-cheques (sorry - 'checks' doesnt sound right to the Aussies and Brits on the board. Canadians, Indians and others can make their own arrangements re phonetic spelling).


----------



## jjacq

It's a Kenwood KR6060. Also, nevermind the hiss is actually gone, idk what happened.

 I'd like to know though, is it hard to maintain this? I totally have zero DIY skills and I can't solder for peanuts even if I tried. I mean, it's just because I haven't learned yet. Anything I should pay attention to though?


----------



## Skylab

I really like the look of blue LEDs in my Marantz receivers, but they are the older style than the 2235B - never seen one of those in person.


----------



## Rawrbington

you know its growing on me a bit.  It kind of gives it a more modern look.  and looks awesome in the dark. 
  Skylab do you have the actual blue led's or the white ones?  I'd imagine the white ones would put off a look more like the blue ones than the original incandecent.  i think a lot of the greenish color of the originals is because the lights themselves are more yellow than white.  that coupled with old yellow vellum paper equals nasty green


----------



## BmWr75

The next restoration project, a Sherwood S5000 II.  Uses 7868 power tubes, the original Tung-Sols came in it and still have lots of life left.  Four of the six preamp tubes are original Telefunken 12AX7s.
   
  It sounds great now, but is all original so needs a bunch of capacitors replaced.


----------



## Skylab

Rawr, I used the blue LEDs for the meters and dial lamps. Indicators of course cannot be blue (at least on the models I have/had).

Scott, looks cool! My Fisher uses 7868's, nice sounding tubes.


----------



## scompton

Here's a web site with pictures of the insides of audio gear.  It's got quite a bit of new stuff, but according to the one blurb I found on the site, he started it with the idea of posting pics of vintage gear.  He'll put photos up hat people send him.
   
  http://www.hifishock.org/


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Also, nevermind, the hiss is actually gone, idk what happened. I'd like to know though, is it hard to maintain this? Anything I should pay attention to?


 
  Like I said, hiss can be generated anytime a gain ( or maybe I should use the term "active") stage is in the signal path. Tone controls (including a loudness control) can create hiss when they're switched in. Sometimes it's bleed from the tuner. Sometimes it's hiss from a phono stage. It depends on how the inputs and switches are arranged, so flip a few switches with the volume turned down and listen. The KR 6060 is from the late '70s, so it should be pretty good. If your controls and switches are glitch- and crackle-free, occasional hiss is likely just the normal sound of an old preamp going about its business. If it was the amp hissing, you'd hear it all the time, no matter what.


----------



## woody88

guys, a bit of good news. ebay replied to me today, and have indicated that they sided with me, and that the seller's description was not accurate. I will be packing this SOB up to ship back. Not looking forward to it, as it was a tight box and tight fit on the inner box. I have sent another email to ebay to see if they would consider sending me a prepaid label, as I felt that I was deceived from the very beginning. I am not counting on that to come through, but at least once I sent it back, it will get the entire purchase price back, including the original shipping of $75 that I was charged on that listing. I will make sure it requires a signature and that it is insured. here's to hoping that packing this thing up will not be too bad.


----------



## wotts

That's great to hear! I have not had to open an eBay claim of that nature before, so I don't know about the shipping label. I hope they will do that for you.


----------



## Silent One

Revamping my entire audio rack. Got the Pioneer SX-650 temporarily squeezed in doing work! Albeit, vertically...


----------



## jjacq

^haha ^_^ hello again.

 I just cleaned my room. Still waiting on my Sansui.


----------



## Silent One

You'll be entertaining Pre-Holiday offers with the little one's help, that's for sure!


----------



## roadcykler

Not really an integrated amp or receiver (although the guy I bought it from had it hooked up directly to a cd player with no pre-amp) I picked up a very nice Sony 3200f about a week ago. Looks just like this one except the blue power on light is out. Gonna see if I can replace that without too much effort. It sounds great and seems to be pretty unique. Currently I'm using my Peachtree Nova as a preamp.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> I picked up a very nice Sony 3200f about a week ago.  It sounds great and seems to be pretty unique.


 
  Classic early-'70s Sony power amp and a direct ancestor of my TAN-8550 VFET power amp (notice the similarity of the control layout), which I wish someone here would get and let loose on an HE-6 or LCD-3:


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Classic early-'70s Sony power amp and a direct ancestor of my TAN-8550 VFET power amp (notice the similarity of the control layout), which I wish someone here would get and let loose on an HE-6 or LCD-3:


 
  Hey, Wualta,
  Nice and clean Sony!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sony really has elegant looking in some Models!
   
  How do you think about VFET and MOSFET? I know VFET is nickname of MOSFET, but it seems that only some MOSFET transistors are called VFET. Could you tell me explicitly which are VFET? And do you have a list for all VFET amps (Only some Sony and Yamaha?)?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> How do you think about VFET and MOSFET? I know VFET is nickname of MOSFET, but it seems that only some MOSFET transistors are called VFET. Could you tell me explicitly which are VFET? And do you have a list for all VFET amps (Only some Sony and Yamaha?)?


 
  Glad you like the Sony. I think it's a swell-looking amp. 
   
  VFETs have characteristic curves that are similar to those of triode vacuum tubes. As far as I know, no other power transistor in use today has this characteristic. MOSFET curves have been compared to those of pentode tubes.
   
  Be careful of confusing VFETs and MOSFETs. It's easy to do because over the decades people have made all kinds of MOSFETs including *V*ertical ones-- V-MOSFETs. But the true VFETs came first (they were the first power FET transistors for audio) , are different in fundamental ways, can't be substituted without major circuit changes, were only built by three, possibly four companies, and haven't been made for 30 years, the new super-expensive non-audio ones Nelson Pass is using notwithstanding.
   
  The ones to look for are the 1st-gen Sony amps and integrateds, beginning with the TA-4650 baby integrated (the one I owned in the '70s). The other integrateds are the TA-5650 (the one I'd recommend) and TA-8650. The power amps are the TAN-5550 and TAN-8550. These will be relatively easy to find; many people own them and have posted questions and answers about them. If you find a Yamaha B-1 or B-2 and by some miracle it's cheap, grab it.


----------



## Skylab

For those who do not know, MOSFET = Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor. Many people feel they have a warmer, closer to tube-like sound than traditional bipolar transistors, on the other hand, there were lots of people who complained about a veiling dubbed "MOSFET Mist" back in the early days. I have owned MOSFET amps before (mostly from VanAlstine) that I really liked.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Classic early-'70s Sony power amp and a direct ancestor of my TAN-8550 VFET power amp (notice the similarity of the control layout), :


 
   
  For what purpose is the "Function" button switch at the upper right of the panel?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





wualta said:


> VFETs have characteristic curves that are similar to those of triode vacuum tubes. As far as I know, no other power transistor in use today has this characteristic. MOSFET curves have been compared to those of pentode tubes.
> 
> Be careful of confusing VFETs and MOSFETs. It's easy to do because over the decades people have made all kinds of MOSFETs including *V*ertical ones-- V-MOSFETs. But the true VFETs came first (they were the first power FET transistors for audio) , are different in fundamental ways, can't be substituted without major circuit changes, were only built by three, possibly four companies, and haven't been made for 30 years, the new super-expensive non-audio ones Nelson Pass is using notwithstanding.


 
  Thanks lot for clearing my confusion!!
   
  There are always misleading info on internet!
   
  @Skylab,
  Are all Van Alstine amps (power and int) MOSFET? How about their components quality? It seems they are applying same business model as earlier Hafler and Heathkit. Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

I'm not sure about their integrateds, but all VanAlstine power amps are either MOSFET or tube-MOSFET hybrid. They are well designed, and well built, but are not full of "designer" parts. They have tried to keep prices down, at least a bit. 

My AVA DAC also uses a FET-valve output stage, so he even used this topology in his DACs !


----------



## cvision123

I tried my headphones out of the Marantz PM-15S1 and got good result. However, I'm still curious about dedicated headphones amp like the Violectric amps


----------



## ardgedee

I have a couple old receivers and a Violectric amp. The Violectric is excellent on many things, especially very efficient IEMs, but it can't match my Harmon-Kardon when driving full-sized cans.


----------



## Silent One

Usually...and typically...it begins with a smile, when looking at the under reported specs of vintage '70's' iron. Especially up to 1980. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Then the smile turns into outright laughter, when looking at modern day specs in contrast.




   
  Mention of your HK has got me wanting to look at CL before dinner!


----------



## Rawrbington

anybody ever heard a Luxman 1040?  theres one on the local CL for 80$.  thinking about offering 60$.  worth it or no?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> anybody ever heard a Luxman 1040?  theres one on the local CL for 80$.  thinking about offering 60$.  worth it or no?


 

 I am a sucker for Luxman, so I will recommend it!! It's a well build receiver but a little hard to replace the bad bulbs. It's definitely worth $60, even $80 if all things OK! If you buy it, please report back your impression. I am not Marantz fan, but I like Luxman to death. BTW, it should be R-1040.
   
  @Skylab,
  Thanks lot for the info!! I would like to support small company in the future. I have to sell some my vintage stuff.


----------



## Rawrbington

What's the luxman sound? Warm? Flat? Bassy?

If Yamaha is crisp, pioneer is flatish, sansui is warm and marantz is bassy where would you put it?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> For what purpose is the "Function" button switch at the upper right of the panel?


 
  Nutty, isn't it. The amp has two inputs-- you could connect two different preamps to compare them. Why they didn't simply label them "Inputs", I don't know. The switches simply select which one you're listening to. This is probably the same on the 3200F.


----------



## ardgedee

So it's arguably a minimally-featured two-channel integrated amp without a phono preamp. Neat!
   
  When you think about it, that's about all most modern home audio systems need: One input for the digital line (which, if fed off the computer, can encompass all the owner's digital media, plus streaming audio services), and one input for "other" --could be phono, could be tape, or a tuner, or something else... not a lot of people do all of the above any more.


----------



## Silent One

A humble beginning...with the SX-650. But then, everyone starts from somewhere.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> What's the luxman sound? Warm? Flat? Bassy?
> If Yamaha is crisp, pioneer is flatish, sansui is warm and marantz is bassy where would you put it?


 

 You can get some idea http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=444486.
   
  I will quote Wigwam Jones:"As long as we're discussing the personalities of various equipment manufacturers in a civil tone (thanks, guys), I have to say that I was struck by and have never gotten over my love for the sound of Luxman. I know it's not the most common, most popular, or cheapest, but for nearly 30 years, I've just found the Luxman sound to be superior - for me. I have and appreciate many other brands; but Luxman has a sound that is unique and in my mind, excellent. Yamaha does indeed sound 'neutral' and Harman is rich, but Luxman is...well...Luxman." And he once had a motto" there is Luxman, then anything else".
   
  I have A/B tested my Luxman L-110 and Yamaha Ca-2100 with my cans. I found that from low-mid to bass, they share almost same tone, and it's hard to tell the difference. From low-mid to high, Luxman is warmer and rounds the sound in such a beautiful way(you may find Yammmy a little harsh). If you listen classic or Jazz, on Yamaha and most vintage brands, the band members are in a straight line; on Luxman, the members in an arch. Luxman has narrower 2-d sound image than other brands, but it has the enormous 3-d sound image.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> So it's arguably a minimally-featured two-channel integrated amp without a phono preamp. Neat!
> 
> When you think about it, that's about all most modern home audio systems need: One input for the digital line (which, if fed off the computer, can encompass all the owner's digital media, plus streaming audio services), and one input for "other" --could be phono, could be tape, or a tuner, or something else... not a lot of people do all of the above any more.


 
  Arguably. None of the usual preamp goodies, but I suspect they set it up so that even back in 1974 you could go mainstream and minimalist simultaneously and hear more clearly what they'd accomplished in the 8550. That is, I suspect they were showing off a little. Test report here.
   
  Bringing it all back to the future, with the level controls to dial out hiss and computer-noise grunge, it would make a nice amp for the digitoid generation.
   
   
  P.S. : Luxman stuff really is good. Is it better than Accuphase or Diatone? dunno. But it's good, solid stuff, and you won't go wrong with it until you hit the stuff that came well after the Classic Vintage period (1984). The problem, as always, is that people know about it. It was higher-end in its day and it's still known that way. Not too many Luxman "sleepers".


----------



## ashbeowulf

Well I'd like to chime in that I've joined the vintage amp crew  Just picked up a Yamaha CR-820 receiver today! Just got to get the aluminum knobs and stuff cleaned up, but wow this thing totally blows the cheap Technics amp my dad had let me use out of the water. Next step: get a new turntable because the platter on this one is all screwed 
   
  I'd like to get an antenna for this. Does it require a special antenna of any kind? The tuner is really fantastic and way cooler than anything modern
   
  Picture!


----------



## Skylab

Congrats! Looks nice.

Just get a folded dipole antenna. You can get these at Radio Shack, or on eBay, for just a few dollars.


----------



## ardgedee

Zip cord or unterminated speaker wire will also work in the interim. Unless you're in a problem reception area (too far away from or too close to radio transmitters), almost anything will work.


----------



## Rawrbington

put your left hand up in the air and touch the antenna posts with your right hand.  thats what i do


----------



## wualta

Or the simplest-possible old VHF-only rabbit ears. They're aimable and adjustable for wavelength. $10 or less on certain online auction sites. Hint: the FM band lies between the old analog TV channels 6 and 7.
   
  What's the matter with the platter on the Technics? Those were pretty good tables. Might be fixable.


----------



## estreeter

Ever wonder how the behemoth speakers of the 70s shrunk to something we could put onto a desk ? Apparently a guy called Raymond Cooke at KEF was responsible - well, partly responsible:
   
Cooke and KEF's achievements are actually rather easy to summarize. Cooke and his coworkers reduced the average size of home loudspeakers with adequate bass from 9–10 cubic feet to about 2 cubic feet (both Cooke and Kessler credit the late Edgar Villchur, of AR, with his parallel invention of the so-called acoustic-suspension woofer). They were the first to begin large-scale production of drivers with cones made of materials other than paper, the first to apply Fast Fourier Transform analysis to the measuring of loudspeakers, and among the first to apply modern quality-control principles to driver manufacture.
   
http://www.stereophile.com/content/book-review-ikef-50-years-innovation-soundi
   
I find the history of 2-channel sound quite fascinating, but I expect that the reality was a lot more  pedestrian. Still, when was the last time an engineer walked into the office and said 'Boss, I think we can shrink our product to 1/5th its current size' ?


----------



## ashbeowulf

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Or the simplest-possible old VHF-only rabbit ears. They're aimable and adjustable for wavelength. $10 or less on certain online auction sites. Hint: the FM band lies between the old analog TV channels 6 and 7.
> 
> What's the matter with the platter on the Technics? Those were pretty good tables. Might be fixable.


 
  I can't say for sure what's causing it, but the platter wobbles slightly up and down during it's revolution. Not sure how big of a deal this is, or how fixable. Maybe a worn belt? Maybe I'll try taking it to pieces tomorrow and taking a look..


----------



## wualta

I think it's one of those dried-out rubber platter mats that's going up and down, isn't it? Unless the table were thrown down a stairwell, I can't imagine the aluminum platter itself is bent. Having said that, if it IS bent, toss it down a stairwell and go with your original plan to get a better table.


----------



## ashbeowulf

Just came in to say I picked up some cheapy speakers a guy on my road was selling. Picked up a pair of Clarke Systems II series 310 (really obscure apparently) which seem to be in decent working order, and a pair of Genesis G10 speakers. My question is, the main cone on the Genesis' is completely disintegrating around the edges. How much would a fix like this cost? I picked up the 4 speakers for 20 bucks so I'm not hugely concerned if one pair doesn't work, but if I can fix the Genesis ones on the cheap I'd be down to try


----------



## Skylab

There is a pair of replacement woofers for the Genesis on eBay for $70 with brand new foam surrounds. You might be able to refoam them frm a kit even cheaper if you are handy. Simply speakers has refoam kits for that model Genesis for $25.


----------



## ashbeowulf

Thanks for the info  Just ordered a refoam kit. Both sets of speakers sound pretty good, can't wait to hear the Genesis ones once I get the foam surrounds in place. These things are mucky as hell though and the cabinets need a thorough cleaning job


----------



## MattTCG

Been reading through this thread. I think that after another few days of research here I might be ready to take the plunge on a vintage amp.


----------



## Rawrbington

Dug the sx 950 out of the closet last night. Hooked it up and put on some vinyl. Listened through speakers and headphones. Found myself scratching my head and wondering why I disliked it before


----------



## BournePerfect

Still loving my Kenwood KA 3500 which I use every time I'm in between my amp rolling lol. Plenty of power and bass for my HD 800s that I don't mind using this one bit while I save for a ZDSE. Watched Avatar bluray through this today to great satisfaction-and the loudness controls can sure come in handy if needed. Listening to Money for Nothing through this as we speak.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  -Daniel


----------



## roscoofyore

I'll contribute.  Please pardon the crappy photos, the droid phone is no more and the blackberry takes dreadful pix.  McIntosh 4100 receiver, Revox CD player and Thorens turntable.   cheers gents!  roger


----------



## theHof

Sorry for the crapolicious iPad photo... But, that's my Sansui 2000 series receiver next to my Dual 1229


----------



## richt54

The top receiver is the HK flagship starting in 1976-77 It is the 730. The mid model was the 430 and the bottom was the 330C.The bottom receiver was the HK flagship 1971 thru 1975. It is the 930. The mid model was the 630 and the bottom was the 330A and the 330B. The 730 is for sale and I am going to list in the for sale section.


----------



## Coolzo

Huzzah! McIntosh in AZ!  If I had a job, I would've prolly bought out Craigslist already...
  Quote: 





roscoofyore said:


> I'll contribute.  Please pardon the crappy photos, the droid phone is no more and the blackberry takes dreadful pix.  McIntosh 4100 receiver, Revox CD player and Thorens turntable.   cheers gents!  roger


----------



## technobear

Here's a shot of my Kenwood KR-950B glowing beautifully in it's cabinet along with the Audiolab 8200CDQ. This is a great receiver. Judging by the amount of heat it produces, there's a fair amount of class A biasing here. Sounds great with the T1's. Kenwood even fitted stepped tone controls instead of pots. Heaven!

Click for a bigger view:


----------



## woody88

after a long, drawn out process, I finally got my money back from the heavily gouged Pioneer SX-1250. had to paid $65 out of my own pocket to get it shipped to seller. Let it be known as a $65 lesson to ask for more photos, instead of being so trusting that a glare in the photo, is just a glare; that seller is not trying to hide major physical flaws! But I am glad that this ebay debacle has come to an end!


----------



## musiclover666

I am looking at picking up a NAD 7020e receiver for use with my Grados. Does anyone have any experience with this particular receiver? There is also a Sony STR-7065A up for sale as well. Which of the two would have a better headphone out? Any opinions would be very helpful.
   
  Thanks,
  Dan


----------



## moodyrn

Sorry you had to go through that experience. It's really not fair that you had to be out of pocket 65.00. But on a happier note, I've just rediscovered my sansui au-517. When I first got it, the sound was a little grainy with the treble being harsh. But after adjusting all of the bias pots and a good cleaning that went away. The 517 is probably the least spectacular sounding of all of the vintage receivers/amps I've owned. But that's not a knock against it. As I posted when I first got it, it's still on par with any 1000.00 ss headphone amp i've listened to. Just everything else I've owned has been totl and sounded outstanding.
   
  The only cans I've really used with it has been a pair of heavily modded d7000(previously owned), and my he-6. The gain was way too high for my jh13. They even hissed when I used a 75ohm adapter. I also got a good bit of hiss with my w3000anv, and unlike the 717, it lacks the -20db button. So last night I decided to experiment with it a little. I ran the preamp out from my flagship onkyo receiver(nr5008) and bypassed the preamp of the 517. My first reaction was "wow" this sounds so much better. My w3000 are completely silent now with a very black background, and even better, my jh13 are just as quiet. The soundstage became wider and deeper with less grain  on no matter whether I was using cans or speakers.
   
  I'm completely baffled by this. I never even bother to compare the preamp in the past because a couple of other receivers I tried, the preamp was basically on par with the onkyo. I never though the preamp would be holding this thing back. Not that it sounds bad, but it's definitely not on par with the amp. It still don't sound as good as my marantz 2325, but it does sound better than it ever has. Who knew.


----------



## Skylab

It could well be that there is a cap going in the preamp section, or perhaps even a transistor.  But sounds like you found a cool way to get the most out of it!


----------



## moodyrn

I'll have to pop it open and check them again, but when I first got it, I checked all of the caps with my capacitor tester and they all were fine. The preamp doesn't sound bad, it was still completely silent with the denons, and even my sextetts. The only cans it hissed with  were AT's and jh13's. I believe it's functioning properly, but I'll go inside and double check tonight.
   
  Another bonus; I'm still able to use the speaker selector switch. So I can still switch the speakers completely off or toggle between the two pairs of outputs whenever I want to run my he6 off the speaker outs. That probably won't happen much since I pretty much use them exclusively with my marantz. But it's good to know I have that option though. But I'm just thrilled I can use my jh13's without any type of adapter. I can't even say that about my marantz which still need the 75ohm adapter for the jh13's.


----------



## ashbeowulf

Just finished my refoam on my Genesis G10 speakers, and running John Coltrane vinyl through them and they sound AMAZING. My one question, though, is I want to get stands or something to bring the tweeters closer to ear level, and would prefer not to mount them on or near a wall. Does anyone know what I should use to this purpose? Thanks


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





musiclover666 said:


> I am looking at picking up a NAD 7020e receiver for use with my Grados. Does anyone have any experience with this particular receiver? There is also a Sony STR-7065A up for sale as well. Which of the two would have a better headphone out? Any opinions would be very helpful.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan


 
  I had same models before, all were stocked one. Sony sounds warm, but not warm as NAD. Sony also doesn't has same details as NAD. Sony sounds very smooth, NAD sounds very dynamic and lively. I would choose NAD over Sony for sound, but choose Sony over NAD for looks.
   
  Just my 2 cents, YMMV!


----------



## franklyshankly

My apologies if this has been asked but I wasn't sure how to search for this question. My folks have a Sansui receiver they bought in Korea when they were stationed there during Korean war. Can't remember if its a 6060 or 9090 or 6000 but I think it's a pretty decent model, though not the best. We've kept perfect care of it and have used it to power a full Bose (dont judge! my parents dont know better) surround sound system and it always seemed to produce great sound.
   
  Well, I'm inheriting this beast to use as a headamp, but I'm wondering if it would be worth "tweaking" it (or paying someone else to tweak it, i'm clueless about electronics) for headphone use or would I be better off using as is while saving for dedicated head amp.
   
  I will be using iMac as source, with an entry level DAC like the HRT Streamer Pro (or whatever is best in sub $500 level) with HD650 phones.
   
  I know I should probably have the thing cleaned and given a general tune up since it has never had one, but is it feasible to have someone tweak the headphone section of the receiver for customized performance with the HD650s?
   
  If this would be really expensive (ie, more than the value of the amp itself) would if be worth it? Obviously asking people who may have done something similar and been happy with results. I know many people use vintage amps with headphones and are happy with results, just curious how much work is needed to get them to perform decently.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## franklyshankly

Also, I'm in CT and I think I remember reading somewhere on here that there is a great vintage technician near Hartford, if anyone knows that would be helpful.


----------



## ashbeowulf

Generally paying anyone to do that kind of work gets expensive quickly, unless you have a friend who would know how to. I'd think a dedicated headphone amp would probably be better suited anyway, and leave the Sansui more for doing what it was intended for: driving speakers  The 650s shouldn't be horrendously hard to drive though, I wouldn't think. Should be able to get a reasonably priced headphone amp in the 200ish range? I'm no expert though by any means. Good luck!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> Well, I'm inheriting this beast to use as a headamp, but I'm wondering if it would be worth "tweaking" it (or paying someone else to tweak it, i'm clueless about electronics) for headphone use or would I be better off using as is while saving for dedicated head amp.
> 
> I will be using iMac as source, with an entry level DAC like the HRT Streamer Pro (or whatever is best in sub $500 level) with HD650 phones.


 
   
  As far as I know, you don't have to tweak receiver to fit your headphones. Low impedance headphones may have hiss from receivers, but not HD650.
  As for sound, if your Sui is 9090 or earlier, it might not be a good fit for HD650. HD650 will sound too warm on early Sui, Marantz or HK.(at least for me). Sansui G will be a good fit, but I prefer Yammy and around 80 Denon. If you can find Denon PMA 7x0 or PMA 7x7 for cheap, they are best for Sennheiser cans. Just my 2 cent, YMMV!
   
  P.S I forgot to mention Pioneer Sx-x50 or later models are also good fit for HD650. And Bose is not that bad, for low volume background sound, they are very good. They are just not worth their high price.


----------



## scompton

The whole point of this thread is how good some of these receivers work as headphone amps.  I agree that sending a unit out can get expensive.  For general clean up, just by a can of Deoxit and clean the controls.  Buy a cheap DRM and measure DC offset.  If DC offset is low enough and the controls are cleaned, it may not need any additional work.


----------



## palmfish

If it sounds good with your speakers, then don't worry about it. Don't waste your money on any services or new accessories (DAC, head amp, etc.) you don't need, just plug in your 650's and enjoy them.


----------



## franklyshankly

Thanks for the feedback! I guess I'll just wait til I have everything and see how it sounds as is. I tend to like a warmer sound, so I'm not too worried about that (unless it starts to sound muffled).


----------



## Skylab

Right! Get it, give it a little cleaning, and see what you think! That may be all you need.


----------



## moodyrn

For most people here, it's not about vintage gear being a novelty or a hobby(maybe for some). The reason this thread took off the way it did, was because of the pleasant surprise about how good some of this stuff sounds. And for many, including myself, it has change the notion of having to spend huge amounts of money on dedicated headphone amps to get great sound. But of course ymmv. I still get a chuckle when I go back and read the first few pages in this thread. Even the very first post was met with a bit of criticism. But oh my has this thread taken off. Depending on the condition, you may have no desire to go the route of a dedicated headphone amp.


----------



## Silent One

Well stated. After all, with the recent explosion of headphone listening, and large infusion of cash it continues to bring, we'll be adrift in a sea of new products, services and short-life cycles.





   
  Now, if I could just persuade sluker to push that amp out the door...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> For most people here, it's not about vintage gear being a novelty or a hobby(maybe for some). The reason this thread took off the way it did, was because of the pleasant surprise about how good some of this stuff sounds. And for many, including myself, it has change the notion of having to spend huge amounts of money on dedicated headphone amps to get great sound. But of course ymmv. I still get a chuckle when I go back and read the first few pages in this thread. Even the very first post was met with a bit of criticism. But oh my has this thread taken off. Depending on the condition, you may have no desire to go the route of a dedicated headphone amp.


 

 +1!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Listen to what the thread creator said!! And thanks for him, I learned that even with limited money, I can have very good headphone amps plus speakers amps, plus knowledge of audio, plus sweat of polishing case, plus fun, plus......


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, yeah forgot to mention the fun in all of it. I've had some great weekends polishing and cleaning stuff up. Both amps and speakers.


----------



## Silent One

I'm ALL in, I just want to find a better amp than my first entry (SX-650) into retro/vintage. sluker...... are you listening?!




   
  You know I mean well, sluker, just funnin' with you while I set out to persuade you.


----------



## franklyshankly

Moodyrn, I totally agree! I grew up with this sansui, always loved the look and feel and sound of it. This is definitely not about novelty for me, I can't afford anything else! And if the sound ends up impressing me (which I suspect it will), then all the better. I'm in no rush to spend money unnecessarily. Look forward to updating once I get this rig together.


----------



## franklyshankly

Moodyrn, btw I see you use the HRT steamer pro, how do you like it? That's the one I plan on using with the sansui. Not overly warm?


----------



## ashbeowulf

Just wanted to say, I wasn't trying to put down integrated amps as headphone amps, was just stating that if you were deciding between trying to mod an integrated amp (sacrilege!), it would be better to get a dedicated  Personally, I tried my D5000s with my Yamaha CR820 and didn't like the sound at higher volumes (distortion). It drives my speakers amazingly well, though, so I'm extremely happy with it  Good luck with the Sansui!


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

I've either heard or owned most of what's typically considered the best headphone amps out there, and IMHO, an integrated, (Vacuum Tube Logic IT-85) is the best I've yet heard. I haven't listened to my 4ch Beta22 amp in months, and it's a pretty damned fine sounding amplifier. It's simply the 2nd banana in this house. 
   
  Listening to headphones through an excellent sounding home amp from its outputs is a wonderful thing.


----------



## palmfish

I've tried a half dozen head amps and I can't say I've heard any difference between any of them or between them and my receiver. Add to that the inconvenience of incorporating a head amp into a home system and their lack of tone controls, and I became convinced that dedicated headphone amps are not for me.


----------



## Skylab

Any of you other AudioKarma members know why the site is gone this morning?


----------



## ardgedee

It's still there at audiokarma.org. Had you mistyped the URL?


----------



## Skylab

Are you sure????  I get one of those "placeholder" type of web domain owner pages, not Audiokarma.  This is both on my PC and from my ipad.  Did you try just now?
   
  And the AK Database site looks even scarier:
   
   
  Quote: 





> While executing query "delete from `akdataba_admin`.cpg14x_sessions where time<1338820484 and remember=0;" on Resource id #5
> 
> mySQL error: Table './akdataba_admin/cpg14x_sessions' is marked as crashed and should be repaired


----------



## ardgedee

I get a placeholder when I try audiokarma.com, but audiokarma.org looks exactly like what I was expecting, and I could log in properly too. Tried both before replying earlier.


----------



## Skylab

Well that is really odd, because I for sure an using audiokarma.org, doesn't work for me.  Also doesn't work for a buddy of mine in Philadelphia.  Who is your ISP?


----------



## Rockyhill

audiokarma.org isn't working for me either. I'm at work behind _mucho_ security. Not sure what my experience will be at home tonight.
   
My lunch has ben ruined!


----------



## BGRoberts

Not working for me either, using Hughesnet satellite i KCMO area.
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well that is really odd, because I for sure an using audiokarma.org, doesn't work for me.  Also doesn't work for a buddy of mine in Philadelphia.  Who is your ISP?


----------



## ardgedee

On a guess, it may have to do with your session cookies if you were previously logged in.

So try the site again with a browser you dont use when visiting audiokarma: if you usually use Firefox, try Internet Explorer. Or Safari. Or the other way around.

Of course after typing that, I tried visiting the site again, and the server seems to be completely down. Bah.

Well, I hope it's not a major technical problem.


----------



## Rockyhill

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> On a guess, it may have to do with your session cookies if you were previously logged in.
> So try the site again with a browser you dont use when visiting audiokarma: if you usually use Firefox, try Internet Explorer. Or Safari. Or the other way around.
> Of course after typing that, I tried visiting the site again, and the server seems to be completely down. Bah.
> Well, I hope it's not a major technical problem.


 
  didn't help


----------



## scompton

Doesn't work for me either from work.  I tried my normal Firefox from the history and when that didn't work, I tried chrome.  I can't connect via Tapatalk on my phone either.


----------



## ardgedee

rockyhill said:


> didn't help



Yeah. I can only guess at what the problem is. I'm a web developer, but I'm not their web dev.

In general, tho, if some people get a whole site and the others are getting part of one, or server errors, the problem will not be related to which networks you're being routed through to reach it. If some people are reaching the site and others get "Server not available" type errors, that is more likely (but not necessarily) to be a problem with the network node immediately above the server not handling traffic well.


----------



## Meewoo

Owner forgot to register domain?


----------



## Silent One

Negative.


----------



## ardgedee

Hm. If audiokarma's ISP changed its IP number, then all you people are trying to connect at the sites old address, while I'm reaching it through the new address because I'd never visited audiokarma.org through this computer before...

What you can do is try flushing DNS cache on your computer. The exact method for doing this varies by operating system: google for "Flush dns cache" + your computer's OS and you should find straightforward instructions.


----------



## ardgedee

If that doesnt work, then I'm out of ideas, sorry


----------



## Rawrbington

Akdatabase.org works for me but audiokarma.org does not. I get the site with the girl wearing the backpack mocking me


----------



## ardgedee

rawrbington said:


> Akdatabase.org works for me but audiokarma.org does not. I get the site with the girl wearing the backpack mocking me




That's what I see now, too.

That's the sort of placeholder page the hosting company sets up for a parked, inactive domain. ("what you want, when you need it!").

Nothing any of us can do except wait, for now.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> Moodyrn, btw I see you use the HRT steamer pro, how do you like it? That's the one I plan on using with the sansui. Not overly warm?


 
  Funny you should mention that. This is my second time owning it. The first time around, I thought is was decent, but on par with most dacs in the 300-400.00 range. And those dacs have a ton of features to go along with it. So I was disappointed and returned it. Later I read that using a shorter usb cable was paramount, and with longer ones, the sound quality was compromised greatly. So a couple of years later I decided to give it another try, and you know what? The article was right. It sounding much better using a short .5 meter usb cable. It destroys every dac I've listened to 500.00 or below, and even sounds better than my meier stage dac which I like a lot.
   
  I now use it exclusively with my sansui. And though the hrt is slighly warm sounding, and the sansui warm, I don't find the pairing to be too warm. They sound very musical together imo, and a great match.  I think you will be happy going that route.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Akdatabase.org works for me but audiokarma.org does not. I get the site with the girl wearing the backpack mocking me


 
   
*Same here*  ! I'm wondering if they have been hacked - if they were down for maintenance, surely we would get a page telling us that ?    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I miss my AK ......


----------



## Skylab

Good news, seems to be back!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Perhaps, the gap I closed wasn't as nearly as long. But, going down from 1.0 Meter to 0.5 Meter USB did matter.


----------



## ardgedee

skylab said:


> Good news, seems to be back!




Yay! Any statement on what the problem was?


----------



## Rawrbington

Hmm not back for me. Picked up a 2270, nice sound but the right channel has some issues. It gives a popping sound at higher volumes. I've adjusted the offset and bias but the problem still persists. 
Hopefully its an easy fix


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> Perhaps, the gap I closed wasn't as nearly as long. But, going down from 1.0 Meter to 0.5 Meter USB did matter.




I went from a 3 meter cable to a .5 meter. My amp was across the room from my pc at the time. should have tried that before givingup on it so easily.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Forget the listening room, I bet you were dancin' in the street! Great discovery...


----------



## BmWr75

AudioKarma.org is back up for me now.
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php


----------



## Silent One

AK is still not up for me; was just trying to view a vintage integrated and... DNS error.




   
  That said, there's a cat trying to push a 1980 Vintage Pioneer D7000 out the door for $245 on CL. The cabinet looks good but the amp has two issues: non-working tuner; neither meter works. But owner says amp itself is in good condition.
   
  Evaluations sought...
   




   
   
   
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/3052161099.html


----------



## Skylab

Well, the general rap on the D7000 is that it's quite good overall but it is on the bright side sonically.  Pretty good price, but man I think Flouroscan looks so cool, I'd hate to have that piece without that working.


----------



## Silent One

Me and "Bright" sonics don't mix too well... thanks for jumpin' in. Will have to sleep on it. Will seek estimate on repairs as well.


----------



## estreeter

AK is back - *this thread* is probably the best place to take that discussion :
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=5756474#post5756474
   
  One suggestion is to add their IP to your hosts file - not sure how bulletproof that is over time ...
   
  Well, in the event that the domain address quits, use the server *IP: 207.32.177.8*


----------



## Rawrbington

Wow! Not sure if any of you remember me mentioning that I had bought a marantz off Canuck and the guy straight scammed me. Never sent a tracking number and the package never showed up. He never responded to an email and only answered one of my calls and I think it was by accident.
Anyways, PayPal came through! Got my money back today! Hooray!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> AK is back - *this thread* is probably the best place to take that discussion :
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=5756474#post5756474
> 
> ...


 
   
  That'll get you to the arena. But not to your seat by Row & Section number...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Wow! Not sure if any of you remember me mentioning that I had bought a marantz off Canuck and the guy straight scammed me. Never sent a tracking number and the package never showed up. He never responded to an email and only answered one of my calls and I think it was by accident.
> Anyways, PayPal came through! Got my money back today! Hooray!


 
   




   
  Paypal came through for me last week too! After placing an order online, the vendor was non-responsive. Apparently, the business had been sold, yet, the website allowed for new orders. But no one home! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It took a month to get my hands on my own funds...


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> Me and "Bright" sonics don't mix too well... thanks for jumpin' in. Will have to sleep on it. Will seek estimate on repairs as well.
> h34r:




BY THE WAY: there is someone selling a D7000 on AudioKarma that has a non working tuner display but otherwise works...for $75!!!! I don't know the seller so cannot vouch, but still...just sayin'.


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Wow! Not sure if any of you remember me mentioning that I had bought a marantz off Canuck and the guy straight scammed me. Never sent a tracking number and the package never showed up. He never responded to an email and only answered one of my calls and I think it was by accident.
> Anyways, PayPal came through! Got my money back today! Hooray!


 
  Hi Rawbington,
   
  yes I remembered it well, as you were going through with your marantz ordeal as I went through with my pioneer. Glad to know paypal came through, as ebay came through for me. there just seem to be no end for scammers out there on these sites...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the relay... on my way now!
   
  Regarding Audiokarma - still on the outside looking in!


----------



## Skylab

The for sale stuff there that is good (and the are often very real bargains there) is in "Barter Town" - but you have to be an AK Subscriber to have access, and this costs $25 a year. Well worth it in my opinion, but YMMV.


----------



## .Sup

I will probably go get this one on Thursday for my HE-500 and HE-4.
http://www.bolha.com/akustika-ojacevalci/pioneer-sa-508-oglas1280283077


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





.sup said:


> I will probably go get this one on Thursday for my HE-500 and HE-4.
> http://www.bolha.com/akustika-ojacevalci/pioneer-sa-508-oglas1280283077


 

 I have the NA market version (SA-5800) of that integrated amp.
   
  I'm not sure of the exchange rate, but I wouldn't pay more than $50 US for it.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The for sale stuff there that is good (and the are often very real bargains there) is in "Barter Town" - but you have to be an AK Subscriber to have access, and this costs $25 a year. Well worth it in my opinion, but YMMV.


 
   
  Rob, I get the impression that buying from AK would be viable for anyone residing in the CONUS - not so hot for the rest of us, no ?


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The for sale stuff there that is good (and the are often very real bargains there) is in "Barter Town" - but you have to be an AK Subscriber to have access, and this costs $25 a year. Well worth it in my opinion, but YMMV.


 
   
  Personally, I think it's well worth subscribing to just about any forum you use frequently.  I don't post much in audiokarma, but I've been a subscriber for a long time.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I have the NA market version (SA-5800) of that integrated amp.
> 
> I'm not sure of the exchange rate, but I wouldn't pay more than $50 US for it.


 
  Well I called the guy and he says it was never serviced and is in excellent condition. 111€ is 140$. Bear in mind that vintage stuff is harder to get here.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Rob, I get the impression that buying from AK would be viable for anyone residing in the CONUS - not so hot for the rest of us, no ?


 
   
  I think generally that is the case, it seems much more US centric than head-fi is.
   
  Quote: 





scompton said:


> Personally, I think it's well worth subscribing to just about any forum you use frequently.  I don't post much in audiokarma, but I've been a subscriber for a long time.


 
   
  Totally agree, I subscribe here, there, and AudioAsylum.  Well worth it, as little as it costs, and as much as I get from these fora.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The for sale stuff there that is good (and the are often very real bargains there) is in "Barter Town" - but you have to be an AK Subscriber to have access, and this costs $25 a year. Well worth it in my opinion, but YMMV.


 
   
  I did not know. Thanks for bringing me light.


----------



## palmfish

.sup said:


> Well I called the guy and he says it was never serviced and is in excellent condition. 111€ is 140$. Bear in mind that vintage stuff is harder to get here.




OK, I was just making sure you knew that this is (was) a small entry-level amp. 25wpc IIRC. I bought mine new when I was in high school and have kept it for nostalgic reasons (and, of course, the flouroscan meters  ). It is a warm and lush sounding amp and drives headphones just fine.

I use mine at the office for a small speaker system.I have pictures in my profile.

Enjoy it!


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> OK, I was just making sure you knew that this is (was) a small entry-level amp. 25wpc IIRC. I bought mine new when I was in high school and have kept it for nostalgic reasons (and, of course, the flouroscan meters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks! Yours looks much nicer with the wooden panels.


----------



## palmfish

Yes, I like the wood panels too. It seems it was a North American thing as most European gear didn't seem to have them.


----------



## obobskivich

Ah, I think I can really join this club now. I just finished cleaning up and putting back together my JVC PC-R11W. What gets me is, this was the original driver I picked out for headphones way back when, and ended up putting it aside due to the size. After about 10 minutes on my MDR-F1s, I realize that was a mistake. Current. It's good.

Question for those who have restored gear: I took this thing apart to check up on it, and it looks pristine inside (as in, better than it should for being from 1982). All of the caps are that baby blue Rubycon style, and some of them look too big for their mounts (output caps in particular - they're stuffed in there sideways and connected to the board with wire) - what's the odds that this was restored at some point in the past? I mean literally everything on this thing works like it was brand new - pots, faders, etc are all dead silent and track more or less perfectly, there's no errant noise (there's a *slight* bit of noise I'm hearing with it on mute with the F1s, but its just as likely I'm hearing my air con in the background), etc. I've never pulled something this old apart and had this experience - usually there's at least one problem. Haven't found much about this guy online either, except that they're apparently a fortune on eBay :rolleyes:. (And to think, I got this as payment for helping organize a charity sale).


----------



## Skylab

Sounds to me like it was restored, or at least modded, before.  Can you post a pic?


----------



## obobskivich

skylab said:


> Sounds to me like it was restored, or at least modded, before.  Can you post a pic?




I just spent two hours putting it back together! h34r:

Really man...you're killing me. :angry_face:

So basically give me some time to talk myself up to it, and yeah I'll take it back apart and snap a picture or three of the insides.  Really just enjoying how fantastic it sounds right now with the MDR-F1. Kind of scared to hook up my Pro2900s - with the MDR-F1s through this, it reminds me of the Metalocalypse where the band goes to Norway and awakens the lake troll. I knew the F1s could sing, but this is just other-worldly. And this is coming from a non-amp "believer." I wish I knew more about this unit's specs overall; it was just handed to me with no documentation or packaging (I actually got the complete system - every component is excellent, the speakers were kind of shouty in their enclosures, but in an open-baffle they're absolutely sublime). Feel kind of silly for letting it sit for the better part of a decade...

Another question - this thing can run on AC *or* DC; ignoring that I'd have to find a rather robust DC power source, would there be any advantage to running it on DC? I think it can feed from 12V, so in theory I could tap it up from the SMPS in my workstation (which is quite good), or I can go buy a linear unit from a salvage shop. (AFAIK the original use for the DC jacks is to run it on a battery pack - it's supposed to be "transportable" like the ESP/950 system; I cannot imagine how many batteries this thing would eat though (and we're not doing the car battery thing), given that we're talking about a 10-20W/ch amplifier).


----------



## Skylab

Lesson to all you vintage gear lovers: if you ever take anything apart, take pictures


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





obobskivich said:


> Ah, I think I can really join this club now.


 
   
  Welcome to the club! New people on headfi are often greeted with the phrase "sorry about your wallet". I think in this thread we can greet new people with "your wallet thanks you". I know restored units and the cost of restoring can cost a bit. But the performance per dollar with still way cheaper than you would have to spend on a headphone amp of the same caliber.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Welcome to the club! New people on headfi are often greeted with the phrase "sorry about your wallet". I think in this thread we can greet new people with "your wallet thanks you". I know restored units and the cost of restoring can cost a bit. But the performance per dollar with still way cheaper than you would have to spend on a headphone amp of the same caliber.


 
   
  I object, your Honour ! 
   
  Like many things in this hobby, its not about individual purchases. No argument that headphone rigs, in general, are much better bang-for-buck than speaker rigs. and used/vintage kit is cheaper than new, but that only holds true if you can resist the urge to *BUY 15 OF EVERYTHING *!!!!  Forgive me if I bang on about this, but its the reason I started the 'Unicorns' thread in 'High-End' - as a group, *we are deluded*, IMO. 
   
  I'm not denying that there aren't folk out there with the discipline to make your 'bang-for-buck' proposition work, but ten minutes on Audiokarma and it rapidly becomes apparent that vintage gear is a serious addiction. In Obo's case, I suspect that he is already hopelessly addicted to audio, but I dont think his wallet will thank him in the longer term. Its only money, and it beats dragging old cars home, but lets be honest about what we are doing here - rabid consumerism mixed with a tiny bit of recycling.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes it can lead to going overboard when you look at that type of sound you can have for the amount of money spent. But this is headfi and not AK. I "don't think" we will ever be as serious as some of those over there(could be proven to be wrong one day). I see many not only own a few, but some owns 20-30 vintage amp/receivers and many pairs of vintage speakers as well. But one thing I will say, I'm able to have a separate amp for each headphone I have, and all of them sounds excellent. No way could I afford to do that with modern gear....well I could, but if I wanted the same quality of sound I wouldn't. And that alone is more than enough to quench my thirst of vintage gear. And most importantly, if I wanted something else, I wouldn't have to sell nothing to be able to afford it. I would just wait until I score a deal on a mint totl for 100-200.00. Like I did with a kenwood kr9600(total investment 135.00) or pioneer sx-1010(total investment 165.00). The only time I sell my gear is when I run out of space.
   
  But of course I can't speak for everyone. The only hard thing for me is not jumping on a decent deal and holding out for that killer deal. I know others just go for they want and end up spending significantly more than I would, but even then, the performance they are getting still far exceeds the price they are paying. Just ask Skylab. He's spent well over four figures on all of his vintage gear, but ask him how much more he would have paid to get the same performance from modern gear. No matter how you slice it, you are still saving you wallet a ton if you want to get great sound.


----------



## Skylab

Absolutely no doubt - in spite of my having spent much more than petty cash on my vintage gear, modern equivalents in terms of build and sound quality would have cost MUCH, much more.  Not to mention that I decided to do a full set of vintage sources, too (TT, Reel, Cassette) - someone just wanting to connect an existing DAC to a nice vintage amp/receiver to play existing headphones or speakers, or both, can save a BUNDLE.
   
  There are plenty of people here on HF with $2-4K headphone amps. I bought one of the most expensive vintage pieces you can get, a fully restored Pioneer SX-1980, and for that same $2K, the SX-1980 is a great headphone amp, PLUS 270 wpc for speakers, PLUS a phenomenal phono preamp with adjustable loading, PLUS a terrific FM tuner...


----------



## Silent One

Value. This sums up my arrival here. I kind of liken it to my being at a Salon (Head-Fi). And there's many members about - some merely exchanging pleasantries, others exchanging experiences while others yet in observation mode only.
   
  And as I move about the different groups and conversations (threads), I over hear some very interesting things being discussed in the corner. As I approach, I hear wild and wonderful phrases like "Monster receiver" and "150 wpc" or "Only $200 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!" So, I approach and politely introduce myself...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There are plenty of people here on HF with $2-4K headphone amps.


 
   
  Full disclosure, Rob - weren't you one of the core group who owned *several* of those 2-4K headphone amps ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I appreciate that you were able to sell those and invest in vintage gear - and more power to you - but it also costs money to have old kit refurbished. No question that every thousand spent on vintage gear could be equated to several thousand in modern gear, but I stand by what I said about Head-Fiers owning '15 of everything'. I get that - I'm already wading through pages of vintage receivers looking for one that will look good with the PM7001 KI - but I still have a problem with the notion that we are 'saving money'.  I could argue that someone who went out and spent 30k on a single Meridian system 5 years ago, and hasn't spent another cent on audio, is actually the big winner over time.


----------



## .Sup

Hey guys sorry to bother you but is the SA-508 worth being bought for HE-500 or should I look for a higher model? I am going to arrange a meeting with the guy but I wouldn't want to drive so far if HE-500 deserve something better.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I did own some expensive headphone amps, and honestly, I have not missed them one bit 
   
  I agree that we likely are not "saving money", in absolutely terms, but I do think we are getting MORE for our money, in vintage audio.
   
  Since this is head-fi, I will add that vintage headphones almost universally suck (at least if we are talking stuff from the 70's or earlier) - so not ALL vintage = a good idea...


----------



## Silent One

I did sneak in the word _value_...


----------



## Skylab

Indeed,and you nailed it.


----------



## musicman59

I just listened yesterday to a pair of Vintage JBL 4344 Studio Monitors that were 100% factory refurbished. First of all those things are a monster (huge) and beautiful. They were powered by a pair of McIntosh 601 monoblocks with all McIntosh equipment behind them.
  They still need some hours of burn-in but the imaging of those speakers is the best I have ever listened to (and I have listen to many impressive systems) and the midrange was sooo sweet! I just can imagine how they are going to sound after 400 hours or so.
   
  They are similar to these ones:


----------



## Skylab

I bet those are absolutely awesome. JBL was the real deal back in those days, for sure.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> I just listened yesterday to a pair of Vintage JBL 4344 Studio Monitors that were 100% factory refurbished. First of all those things are a monster (huge) and beautiful. They were powered by a pair of McIntosh 601 monoblocks with all McIntosh equipment behind them.
> They still need some hours of burn-in but the imaging of those speakers is the best I have ever listened to (and I have listen to many impressive systems) and the midrange was sooo sweet! I just can imagine how they are going to sound after 400 hours or so.
> 
> They are similar to these ones:


 
   
   





 Forget "Vibrate mode" I'd shut the Mobile completely OFF and sit back fully immersed!


----------



## scompton

My wife would never let them in the house. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I saw some Kenwood towers at a thrift store two weeks ago and looked them up from my iPhone.  They had phenomenal reviews but my wife wouldn't had let me walk out the thrift store with them.  They were 4.5 feet tall.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, I did own some expensive headphone amps, and honestly, I have not missed them one bit
> 
> I agree that we likely are not "saving money", in absolutely terms, but I do think we are getting MORE for our money, in vintage audio.
> 
> Since this is head-fi, I will add that vintage headphones almost universally suck (at least if we are talking stuff from the 70's or earlier) - so not ALL vintage = a good idea...


 
   
  Well, I think we're here because we enjoy the variety, and enjoy in comparing and experimenting. To that end, I don't think any of us could really appreciate vintage gear if we hadn't first gone through a round of buying and using good contemporary gear, to discover how well the old stuff fares in comparison.
   
  And that can cost a good wad of scratch.
   
  Hey, don't put down all vintage headphones -- there aren't really any that are as technically accomplished as the best of recent decades, but there are a few idiosyncratic cans that are pleasing to listen to in their own right and have historical interest as technological precedents for the headphones we enjoy today.


----------



## estreeter

I'd like to hear some vintage Grados. and perhaps a couple of the long-running Beyer models, but I have to wonder what the lifespan of headphone drivers is ..... particularly in environments that were a long way from the_ smoke-free, pet-free and child-free_ nirvana I personally insist on.


----------



## MrQ

I have a new addition. The* Sansui AU-D907*. It drives my HE-6 effortlessly. The sound is somewhere between my SX-1980 and the Marantz 2385, with a really black background. 
   
  As I don't have a decent camera I'll post the Vintage Knob pic.

   
  Edit: I'm now using my Senn IE-8's out of the headphone jack. This thing is _quiet._


----------



## Skylab

WOW, that's an impressive piece of kit, Mr.Q! You have some NICE vintage gear


----------



## MrQ

^Thanks. My next step is to will be to get them all fully re-capped etc. I'll start with the 1980. The thing is I'll have to send them to the US, so I'm seeing this as a long term project.


----------



## Skylab

Honestly, I would not ship an SX-1980 overseas, for any reason. Shipping those monsters is a risky proposition, not to mention very expensive.  Surely there is someone in London who restores vintage audio...


----------



## MrQ

You're right, of course. I know one person I could trust with the job. I'll still have to source the parts from the US though.


----------



## Skylab

Sure; getting parts from the US is understandable.  There are basically entire lists of the parts needed posted on AudioKarma.  Except for the main filter caps, you can gen everything you need from Mouser Electronics, IIRC.


----------



## 5aces

This popped up yesterday,looks like my shed-it's only a half hour from my location so I'll pass through on Sunday:

BIG Vintage Audio Sale


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





5aces said:


> This popped up yesterday,looks like my shed-it's only a half hour from my location so I'll pass through on Sunday:
> BIG Vintage Audio Sale


 
  wow, that looks like it will be a great trip to take on a Sunday!
   
  local CL ad came up with a Marantz 2275 for sale for $45. seller said nothing wrong. but the ad came out like 5am in the morning, and I just replied at 11am or so. so I am sure the chance of me scoring that will be zero.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Sure; getting parts from the US is understandable.  There are basically entire lists of the parts needed posted on AudioKarma.  Except for the main filter caps, you can gen everything you need from Mouser Electronics, IIRC.


 
   
  Thanks for the tip on Mouser Electronics, it's appreciated.


----------



## KneelJung

Need some help trouble shooting my Harmon Kardon 330b. The left channel fuse keeps blowing for some reason. Anybody have any thoughts?


----------



## Rawrbington

woody88 said:
			
		

> local CL ad came up with a Marantz 2275 for sale for $45. seller said nothing wrong. but the ad came out like 5am in the morning, and I just replied at 11am or so. so I am sure the chance of me scoring that will be zero. :confused_face(1):




Wow. That would be a huge score! I hope you get it!


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Wow. That would be a huge score! I hope you get it!


 
  Lol yeah I did not. Seller never even replied to me, and earlier this evening the ad was pulled. And it was one owner too. Looks to be pretty mint based on picture.
   
  But then again, we all know what happened to me last time when I based on a picture right? Lol but even scoring this as a completely dead unit would've been a great score too. Oh well....


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> For most people here, it's not about vintage gear being a novelty or a hobby(maybe for some). The reason this thread took off the way it did, was because of the pleasant surprise about how good some of this stuff sounds. And for many, including myself, it has change the notion of having to spend huge amounts of money on dedicated headphone amps to get great sound. But of course ymmv. I still get a chuckle when I go back and read the first few pages in this thread. Even the very first post was met with a bit of criticism. But oh my has this thread taken off. Depending on the condition, you may have no desire to go the route of a dedicated headphone amp.


 
  X2!  I could not agree more.  Subsequent comments had me chuckling at my own wallet drama now that I have more receivers than I have rooms to play them in or speakers to pair them with...this lifestyle of sonic polygamy is as hedonistic as all get out when you can throw in tone controls, analog and digitally sourced music, DACs to refine the vibes....shall I carry on?  Needless to say, this is the thread I most frequent since the discussion points range over a wide bandwidth of topics and in way cool detail, too.    I have come to appreciate the retro-bauhaus-glam that some of the units sport.
   
  I used to collect stamps and rare books and much of the pleasure came in the hunt for the hard-to-find items, which when coupled with the notion of getting out of the deal some real value, whether monetary or aesthetically, or even functionally, just gets me wanting to keep on searching.  But again, I am also searching for the sound that hits me at the core of my being with a sense of righteous goodness.  Might never win for trying, but got to try anyhow and this thread has been as good as gold in the sense it has laid afore me a path that is sensible and achievable...and the trying hasn't been for naught so far.
   
  Thanks to ya alls...having a real fine time with this thread and learning from the regulars.  Now...the Concept 16.5.....where ye be?


----------



## Rawrbington

Got to hear a sansui au20000 last weekend. Man that thing was magnificent. Not sure if worth the price tag but it sounded awesome


----------



## estreeter

No argument that there are still some serious bargains out there, particularly for those in the CONUS, but I sense a certain amount of reverse snobbery in relation to newer amps/receivers, both here and at Audiokarma, and its not simply around bang-for-buck. I still see people disparaging the headphone stage on modern integrated amps, blanket-style, without having heard the amp in question. I even read one comment from some Nigel who claimed that mid-fi from Marantz/NAD/CA was actually *worse* than the consumer-grade dross at K-Mart, because it gave people the _illusion_ (!) that they were buying an audiophile product. Heaven forbid .... 
   
  I can understand people choosing vinyl over digital, tubes over SS or vintage over modern kit, but anyone who makes a statement like that is a complete tosser, IMO. There is room for kit of all shapes, sizes and religions in this crazy hobby.


----------



## estreeter

Sad to see the end of a fantastic audio heritage:
   
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-FA777ES.html
   
  Sony could have ruled so many entertainment domains, but their management just isnt what it clearly once was.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> wow, that looks like it will be a great trip to take on a Sunday!
> 
> local CL ad came up with a Marantz 2275 for sale for $45. seller said nothing wrong. but the ad came out like 5am in the morning, and I just replied at 11am or so. so I am sure the chance of me scoring that will be zero.


 
  Sorry you didn't get it. I just missed out on a 1 owner mint condition sanui 9090 for 250.00. Not a good a deal as the marantz, but still less than half of what one like that go for.
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> No argument that there are still some serious bargains out there, particularly for those in the CONUS, but I sense a certain amount of reverse snobbery in relation to newer amps/receivers, both here and at Audiokarma, and its not simply around bang-for-buck. I still see people disparaging the headphone stage on modern integrated amps, blanket-style, without having heard the amp in question. I even read one comment from some Nigel who claimed that mid-fi from Marantz/NAD/CA was actually *worse* than the consumer-grade dross at K-Mart, because it gave people the _illusion_ (!) that they were buying an audiophile product. Heaven forbid ....
> 
> I can understand people choosing vinyl over digital, tubes over SS or vintage over modern kit, but anyone who makes a statement like that is a complete tosser, IMO. There is room for kit of all shapes, sizes and religions in this crazy hobby.


 
  Yeah you have idiots in every camp in this hobby. I love both vintage and modern gear. I just find vintage more fun and most importantly, more affordable....well to an extent. There are still vintage jbl speakers on ebay going for around 40,000.00 and vintage amps not far behind.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Mr.Q that sansui is a beaut. I've always been a huge fan of the internals of the sansui integrateds. Even my midtier au-517 have internals that's far beefier and better layed out than it has any reason to.


----------



## woody88

has anyone heard of the yamaha CA series integrated, where the first 10-15 watts can be switch via class A mode? that prospect is intriguing. but I don't know how it would sound via headphones out. does anyone have any feedback on this?
   
  moodyrn, that 9090 would've been a pretty great deal at $250 for one owner for sure. sorry you missed out on it as well.


----------



## Skylab

I've missed a few things like that on Craigslist. I'm always sure by the time I see them they will have gotten dozens of emails. Most of the time CL vintage audio stuff is much too high priced. But I have gotten a couple pieces at what I consider good prices...nice pair HPM-100 speakers for $240, Sansui 9090 for $280.


----------



## BGRoberts

Other than Craigslist and eBay, what are some other good sources for vintage gear?
  Also, are there any really REALLY good websites for info on our babies?
  BG


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Mr.Q that sansui is a beaut. I've always been a huge fan of the internals of the sansui integrateds. Even my midtier au-517 have internals that's far beefier and better layed out than it has any reason to.


 
   
  It's an interesting piece of gear. It's so uncoloured and neutral in it's presentation. The sound seems to favour working well with acoustic and vocals. I'm still trying to work out how this thing can drive iems quietly then power HE-6's from the same headphone out. 
   
  The whole design appeals to my minimalist side. I will probably pair it with a Ref 7.1.


----------



## moodyrn

That is quiet a feat. My marantz 2325 can power my 40ohm w3000ath along with my he6 quietly, but it hisses a little with my 28ohm jh13. My au-517  hisses a little with my w3000ath, and a lot with my jh13s. But on the other hand. When I bypass the preamp of the au-517 and use the preamp of my totl onkyo ht receiver, it will play the jh13 dead silent and still power my he6 as well. So I guess they really put a the preamp of yours. One of the perks of higher end vintage gear or higher end gear in general. I think it may be time to move on from my au-517. I love the way it sounds, but I want to use my jh13s will it as well without having to bypass the preamp.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> has anyone heard of the yamaha CA series integrated, where the first 10-15 watts can be switch via class A mode? that prospect is intriguing. but I don't know how it would sound via headphones out. does anyone have any feedback on this?
> 
> moodyrn, that 9090 would've been a pretty great deal at $250 for one owner for sure. sorry you missed out on it as well.


 

 What do you want to know? The Class A or Yammy Sound? As for class A, it sounds  warmer and thicker (richer?). But it's not worth the heat the unit produced. Any way, Yammy already sounds good enough for me in class AB. Just my 2 cents, YMMV.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> . I even read one comment from some Nigel who claimed that mid-fi from Marantz/NAD/CA was actually *worse* than the consumer-grade dross at K-Mart, because it gave people the _illusion_ (!) that they were buying an audiophile product. Heaven forbid ....


 
   
  I do own a K-Mart Stax SR-3 clone.  It's mind boggling to me that K-Mart ever sold such a thing.  My experiences with K-Mart have been horrible.    I found out later from a coworker who had worked here way though college and K-Mart's corporate HQ that the 2 I lived near were considered among the worst on the east coast.


----------



## estreeter

I'm new to this vintage thing too, but there seems to be no LACK of websites catering to the viintage audio '*hobsession*':
   
http://www.oaktreevintage.com/
   
http://www.thevintageknob.org/
   
http://www.classic-audio.com
   
http://www.theoldstereoguy.com/
   
http://www.chrisinmotion.com/MyFavoriteReceivers.htm
   
http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/
   
http://elitehifi.com/
   
  Restoration:
   
http://www.circlestereo.com/
   
  etc etc - Google is your friend. Whether they are 'good' or not, most have a mountain of photos and the obsessives behind them usually have brochures and other genuine source material. 
   
  Not hard to find info on the popular brands/models like Marantz, but how many younger Head-Fiers would know that Sony once sold seriously top-shelf 2-channel audio ? Yamaha ? 
   
  Surprisingly, my favourite write-up comes from (cough, splutter ..) 6Moons:
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/fisher/fishers.html
   
  I dont know who Steve Marsh is, but in my book he seems like a very cool individual and he doesnt bang on like Srajan. Meat and potatoes - my kinda guy !


----------



## Skylab

I just got my second SX-1980 fully restored by Circle Stereo, including the main filter caps. Just got it back yesterday. Sounds terrific. They are not cheap, but they do a nice job. 

I'm selling a stock SX-1980 over on AudioKarma, beat up faceplate but works great, I have a nice price but it's local pickup only, just FYI.


----------



## woody88

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> What do you want to know? The Class A or Yammy Sound? As for class A, it sounds  warmer and thicker (richer?). But it's not worth the heat the unit produced. Any way, Yammy already sounds good enough for me in class AB. Just my 2 cents, YMMV.


 
  from what I know of the yamaha gear that I did used, the yammy sound is rather neutral. at least that was what they touted right? I was wondering whether or not class A with headphones is worth all the accolades that I have read with regards to class A. I did read about heat issue as well though. is class A what some others saying as one of better sounds out there? the one I was looking at by the off chance is a CA-800, which is 10 watts in class A, 55 watts in class B.
   
  and is yamaha sound the most neutral out of all vintage receiver/integrated sounds?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/fisher/fishers.html
> 
> I dont know who Steve Marsh is, but in my book he seems like a very cool individual and he doesnt bang on like Srajan. Meat and potatoes - my kinda guy !


 
  I'm a proud owner of a fisher integrated tube amp(1964 model). It's definitely a different take on most modern tube amps. I would say, maybe it's the tube equivalent of the popular and controversial w3000anv. It's definitely not neutral sounding, but has a very pleasing, warm, euphoric, musical sound. Kinda like how I would describe the AT's. And ironically, it's the amp I pretty much use exclusively with those as well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I just got my second SX-1980 fully restored by Circle Stereo, including the main filter caps. Just got it back yesterday. Sounds terrific. They are not cheap, but they do a nice job.
> I'm selling a stock SX-1980 over on AudioKarma, beat up faceplate but works great, I have a nice price but it's local pickup only, just FYI.


 
  Congrats on getting your 1980 back. I bet with the sound your getting, the expense was well worth it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I just got my second SX-1980 fully restored by Circle Stereo, including the main filter caps. Just got it back yesterday. Sounds terrific. They are not cheap, but they do a nice job.
> 
> I'm selling a stock SX-1980 over on AudioKarma, beat up faceplate but works great, I have a nice price but it's local pickup only, just FYI.


 
   
  I understand we're a few miles away... and I'm broke. But, would you kindly provide a link for looking anyway?


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I just got my second SX-1980 fully restored by Circle Stereo, including the main filter caps. Just got it back yesterday. Sounds terrific. They are not cheap, but they do a nice job.
> I'm selling a stock SX-1980 over on AudioKarma, beat up faceplate but works great, I have a nice price but it's local pickup only, just FYI.


 
   
  Rob, we both know the old adage re 'long after the price is forgotten, the quality remains'. When I had to resort to repairing computers for a living, we had a sign in the workshop that said 'Sure, we can do it fast and cheap ....'' - sounds like the guys at Circle have something similar. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That said, I see some of the same attitude among vintage audio enthusiasts as I saw among would-be car restorers in the 80s - 'but the cost of replacing  the engine is 3 times what I paid for the car !'. Many of them sold their projects as a result, and quite a few of those cars now change hands for 75-100K AUD. Silly money, but if people are prepared to pay it ...


----------



## Skylab

The key I think is to send the restorers a unit that is cosmetically nice but already has electrical problems, as opposed to sending them one that is perfect. I was able to buy a 1980 that was sold as "non-working/for parts or repair", got it for a nice price, and had it shipped directly to Circle Stereo. There was a small risk that there would have been an issue that CS couldn't fix, but that generally isn't the case, and wasn't for me. Only thing that went wrong with my plan was the eBay seller did a crappy packaging job, and the faceplate was damaged. So when the restored unit got here yesterday, I put my good faceplate (and wood case) on the restored one, and so it's terrific. Unfortunately what that means is the stock one that I am selling is being sold with a dented faceplate. Had that not happened, I would have ended up with a wonderfully restored unit for about the same price as I could sell the stock one for...


----------



## estreeter

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the AK layout way too specialised at the top level ? They just slap a new forum in whenever and wherever the mood takes them.


----------



## nick n

Was out today and ran into a nice old Nikko 4020. Have yet to look it up for specs because I was doing the usual once over and cleaning, but it's pretty nice. This was at the local Sally-Ann which is funny because it was so dirt cheap and that outlet usually prices super high sometimes.
   I'll have to check back in after and let you know how it's working.  Here's some pics. Inside shots can be posted if you care. Nice clean unit. Nearly flawless.



   
  Just wish it wasn't so huge, now I have to get it a dedicated stand. It won't fit where I want it to.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> from what I know of the yamaha gear that I did used, the yammy sound is rather neutral. at least that was what they touted right? I was wondering whether or not class A with headphones is worth all the accolades that I have read with regards to class A. I did read about heat issue as well though. is class A what some others saying as one of better sounds out there? the one I was looking at by the off chance is a CA-800, which is 10 watts in class A, 55 watts in class B.
> 
> and is yamaha sound the most neutral out of all vintage receiver/integrated sounds?


 
   
  Yes, Class A dose sound better on speakers or Headphones. To me, I just don't want to stress the old unit with that margin gain.
   
  You can check me and RexAeterna talking Yammy in earlier thread. I would say Yammy is neutral (some may disagree), x50 and x80 Pionny sounds brighter than Yammy. I sometimes feel Yammy's high is a little harsh. I sometimes feel Pionny's harsh in high also, but Yammy makes you more fatigue. I think the airy sound of Pionny compensates the harsh a little. I still own CA-2010, CR-820, R-9 and R-8, I sold CA-1010, CR-1020 and CR-420. I have never heard 00 series though. Just my 2 cents, YMMV.


----------



## BGRoberts

@estreeter - Thanks for all the links!  I'll be checking them out.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Random gear pron of my MOTL receivers. Love em both, even if I still can't get the Pioneer working quite right, still some kinks to be worked out. God, for being the same power, the Marantz weighs twice as much as the Pioneer!


----------



## Meewoo

Ok, I want to share another brand with you guys. I introduce Nakamichi 730.
  It was built from 1978 to 1982, rated 105 wpc into 8 ohm, retailed for $1390 according to AK.
  All sensitive touches without any knob, and a remote control system!!! It's definitely from future when it first came out!
  I have two now, but one has problem with pre-amp parts. My tech doesn't want to fix it since some ICs are not available, what a pity!!
  Hey, but I can bi-amp my speakers.


----------



## Skylab

Nice Nikko, Nick! Nice Marantz Maverick! And nice Nak, Meewoo!


----------



## woody88

Thanks Meewoo for your feedback; I will think about the CA series some more. I just noticed that you have a lot of vintage luxman in your avatar. are you a big fan I am guessing. Have not heard of luxman being described much in this thread, or I may have forgotten about it. but you would recommend it without hesitation I am guessing, even more so than the Pioneers?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> Thanks Meewoo for your feedback; I will think about the CA series some more. I just noticed that you have a lot of vintage luxman in your avatar. are you a big fan I am guessing. Have not heard of luxman being described much in this thread, or I may have forgotten about it. but you would recommend it without hesitation I am guessing, even more so than the Pioneers?


 
   
  Yes, you can check earlier thread and find out I am gigantic Luxman fan. My favorite vintage stuff is Luxman, followed by Yammy, Rotel, Sui and Kenny, then Pionny Marantz and JVC, then Nikko, Technics and Sanyo.  But I never have chance to listen to Mac, Concept, and Accuphase. I also have Setton RS-660 and Lafayette LR-9090, they were almost identical innards. I have another Lafayette LR-120D which was built by Luxman. So I will recommend Luxman over Pionny without any hesitation. And for some psychic delusion, I prefer integrated amps to receivers!
  Gosh, I forgot HK, Fisher, Sony, where should I put them in my preference list?  I never heard pre-1980 Denon, Onkyo, Scott, Philips, realistic and Sherwood also. There are really some sleeper brands in vintage stuff!
   
  Just my 2 cents, YMMV!
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nice Nikko, Nick! Nice Marantz Maverick! And nice Nak, Meewoo!


 
  Always thanks, Skylab!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought you have two recapped SX-1980 now, and one stocked one? And when will your Pionny shout-out come out?


----------



## nick n

Every time I get a new reciever/amp i have to change things around again. Such a pain. I was listening to this, it works perfectly except for a bulb in the signal meter to the far left there. truns out after some listening I thought, yeah it's ok but a little flat sounding, then I checked the toggle and once again it was accidentally switched it to MONO.  At least this time I didn't tune  headphone mods to it in mono like before.  Have to sit down again and see how it is all over again.
   
   
  Guys this place has some nice stuff. Those nakamichis, wow too bad they are so exclusive.   Incidentally there's an engraved champagne faced Marantz 2215 about an hours drive from here. I think I should what do you guys think. It's been recapped even.
   
  Any ideas on that one?
  Let me know.
   
   I love the Aquamarine colour here. ( temporary supports until I find something about 2 inches high for the base )


----------



## estreeter

Meewoo, $1400 was a significant chunk of change in 1978 - most definitely a high-end pricetag.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





nick n said:


> Was out today and ran into a nice old Nikko 4020.
> I'll have to check back in after and let you know how it's working.  Here's some pics. Inside shots can be posted if you care. Nice clean unit. Nearly flawless.


 
   
  Are you kidding? Of course we care!
   
  Nice to see Nikko get some love here; it's one of the sleeper makes here.
   
  Also - nice Nakamishi, Meewoo. They only ever got known in the States for their over-the-top cassette decks, but they were (maybe still are) an audio company that made/makes complete lines of equipment. Items like your receiver don't seem to pop up here nearly as often as their decks do.


----------



## Meewoo

Guys, thanks for the kind words for Nak!!
   
  I was lucky to get them. It's high price tag reflects the remote system in 1978.
  
  [size=x-small]Nakamichi had previously released their System 1 components; the 600 Cassette, the 610 Control Amp, the 620 Power Amp, and the 630 Tuner-Preamp.  The 730 receiver used many of the components to deliver the same power amp section, and nearly identical tuner and preamp performance in a sleek, stylish black receiver that would look at home in Darth Vader's condo.[/size]
   
  Now I am wishing I can put my hands on System 1!


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> Always thanks, Skylab!! I thought you have two recapped SX-1980 now, and one stocked one? And when will your Pionny shout-out come out?:wink_face:




Yes, I have two recapped SX-1980 now, and right now I also have one stock, although I am selling the stock one. I do need to work on that comparison between the 1980, 1280, and 1250


----------



## Frank I

Julie Newmar, Hi-Fi Girl! 1958. 




  Now this is vintage


----------



## palmfish

Meow!


----------



## KneelJung

Quote: 





kneeljung said:


> Need some help trouble shooting my Harmon Kardon 330b. The left channel fuse keeps blowing for some reason. Anybody have any thoughts?


 
   
  Still looking for some help. I've had the HK for about 8 months, and it actually arrived with a blown fuse in one of the speaker channels. I cant remember if it was the same one I'm having problems with now or not. I just assumed that one went bad from getting jostled around during shipping. Anyway I havent had a problem since I replaced the fuse. Now all of a sudden it just blows fuse after fuse. I had a Stax transformer hooked up to it for a few days prior to the problems, but disconnected it to see if that may have been the source of the problem. I disconnected the speaker that was connected to the left channel and replaced it with the other speaker to see if the speaker was blowing the fuse for some reason, but the fuse blew again. So now I'm thinking it's something internal, and was hoping maybe someone here had an idea where I should start.


----------



## Skylab

It could be blowing because there is too much DC offset on the outputs. Do you own a multimeter?


----------



## estreeter

Rob, slightly OT - how do you drive your balanced cans now that you don't have your dedicated headamps any more ? I only ask after reading favourable impressions on Bryston's $1300 fully balanced BHA-1. I know its often just a cable/adapter change, but remain curious.


----------



## KneelJung

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It could be blowing because there is too much DC offset on the outputs. Do you own a multimeter?


 

 Thanks, I dont have a meter, but I did look up how to test the offsets if I did. Should I still get a reading off the speaker taps without a fuse in place. It literally blows as soon as I put it in. I've powered it down, unplugged it, then installed the fuse, and it blows as soon as I power it back up. The fuse for the whole receiver blew out once during this escapade too. So something funky is going on in there. I picked up a slow blow fuse too, which I havent tried yet


----------



## Skylab

estreeter said:


> Rob, slightly OT - how do you drive your balanced cans now that you don't have your dedicated headamps any more ? I only ask after reading favourable impressions on Bryston's $1300 fully balanced BHA-1. I know its often just a cable/adapter change, but remain curious.




Cable change. I have both balanced and unbalanced cables for LCD-3 and HE-6. But I do have one balanced headphone amp - I own the Red Wine Audio Audeze Edition. I mostly use it as a DAC only, though.



kneeljung said:


> Thanks, I dont have a meter, but I did look up how to test the offsets if I did. Should I still get a reading off the speaker taps without a fuse in place. It literally blows as soon as I put it in. I've powered it down, unplugged it, then installed the fuse, and it blows as soon as I power it back up. The fuse for the whole receiver blew out once during this escapade too. So something funky is going on in there. I picked up a slow blow fuse too, which I havent tried yet




Hmmmm...not sure on that one. My Pioneer receivers go into Protect mode if they sense too much DC Offset, they don't blow fuses. If the fuses are in-line with the speaker outputs, you would not be able to test for DC Offset with the fuses out or blown.


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, see if you can secure a Tungsran 7DJ8 and try it on your RWA. They can be four for about $10-$15 NOS and you should be pleasantly surprised at their sound/performance.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Miguel, I will try that!


----------



## takezo

Quote: 





kneeljung said:


> Still looking for some help. I've had the HK for about 8 months, and it actually arrived with a blown fuse in one of the speaker channels. I cant remember if it was the same one I'm having problems with now or not. I just assumed that one went bad from getting jostled around during shipping. Anyway I havent had a problem since I replaced the fuse. Now all of a sudden it just blows fuse after fuse. I had a Stax transformer hooked up to it for a few days prior to the problems, but disconnected it to see if that may have been the source of the problem. I disconnected the speaker that was connected to the left channel and replaced it with the other speaker to see if the speaker was blowing the fuse for some reason, but the fuse blew again. So now I'm thinking it's something internal, and was hoping maybe someone here had an idea where I should start.


 
   
  it could be anything from a shot transformer to a diode rectifier. a shot component is letting too much current thru and triggering the
  fuse to blow. you can check the transformer primary/secondary windings and diodes with an ohmmeter but only if you're comfortable
  working with high voltage electronics. i would advise you to have it checked out by a technician.


----------



## KneelJung

Quote: 





takezo said:


> it could be anything from a shot transformer to a diode rectifier. a shot component is letting too much current thru and triggering the
> fuse to blow. you can check the transformer primary/secondary windings and diodes with an ohmmeter but only if you're comfortable
> working with high voltage electronics. *i would advise you to have it checked out by a technician.*


 

 That's what I'm going to wind up doing. Hopefully it's something that can be repaired. I've grown kind of fond of it.


----------



## 5aces

woody88 said:


> wow, that looks like it will be a great trip to take on a Sunday




And so it was a nice,very hot sunny day for a drive.
There was just so much gear,it was like complete vintage audio show.
Looked like several CAM members were cleaning house and held a flea market type venue at someone's country property.
Alas,for myself there was no Tannoy or McIntosh/Sansui amplifiers so I left empty handed.

Both front of the house and garages were full of mostly mid-fi receivers.
The rear shop was full of speakers and more integrated amps/receivers.
Digital radio signals are not far off in the future,so analog receivers will follow the old TV sets.
Was great if you were just trying to break into the vintage scene but for the most part it was the lower end of the brand runs.
No monster stuff here but it was nicely organized,with cold drinks available and lots of owners/helpers to assist.

What made me smile most was the 1966 Plymouth Belvedere (I think) spotted on the drive home.
Oh and when another fellow and I were looking at a pair of huge Cerwin Vega D-9 speakers exclaiming "ya,good for parts and firewood" jokingly of course,as these things can play to stupidly loud volumes.


----------



## Rawrbington

did my first partial recap yesterday.  Recapped the power supply on my beloved 2245.  with the guidance of my good friend who is very good at that kind of stuff.
  man its not as simple as i always thought.  and the hardest part isn't getting the caps in and out.  the hard part is reconnecting the wires to the board when you put it back in.
  anyways it played long and loud yesterday evening for a solid 8 hours and it didn't act up.  im still crossing my fingers that the relay was the problem and its fixed.
  i took a lot of breaks, but in total work time i'd say it took 2 hours or less.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> did my first partial recap yesterday.  Recapped the power supply on my beloved 2245.  with the guidance of my good friend who is very good at that kind of stuff.
> man its not as simple as i always thought.  and the hardest part isn't getting the caps in and out.  the hard part is reconnecting the wires to the board when you put it back in.
> anyways it played long and loud yesterday evening for a solid 8 hours and it didn't act up.  im still crossing my fingers that the relay was the problem and its fixed.
> i took a lot of breaks, but in total work time i'd say it took 2 hours or less.


 
   
  Yep. Always draw a rough sketch of the board and which wires are connected to it. Then label the board with the color of each wire coming into each jack. If you forget or mess up, you'll have to look at the messy schematic and trace the wire to the appropriate termination.


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> Yes, you can check earlier thread and find out I am gigantic Luxman fan. My favorite vintage stuff is Luxman




I have been continually looking at this amp, drooling, and trying hard not to buy it. Note the headphone jack and level controls...it's just screaming "try me with the HE-6!"...must...resist...

http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/misc/luxM120A.html


----------



## estreeter

@5Aces, the Belvedere formed the basis of the mighty Hemi GTX  - I think the Dodge Coronet was built on the same platform. The model you saw, from memory, is a couple of years prior to the GTX below, but they were all built around Detroit's 'intermediate' concept - by modern standards, they are huge. Not 59 Caddy huge, but try* parking *one in the CBD of an Australian city ..... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
   
  @skylab - Rob, you KNOW you will buy that Luxman - why torture yourself ? Life really is too short - *do it before someone else does*.


----------



## Rawrbington

ojneg said:


> Yep. Always draw a rough sketch of the board and which wires are connected to it. Then label the board with the color of each wire coming into each jack. If you forget or mess up, you'll have to look at the messy schematic and trace the wire to the appropriate termination.




Solid advice. 
You don't want to get done putting in your caps and then forget what wires connected where. Talk about a nightmare.
The feeling or anxiety is probably a better word for it, right before I powered it back up was nerve racking. Push in the power button, lights come on, no explosions, then the soft click sound of the new relay engaging was the sweetest music I'd heard in a long time. The relief and satisfaction, so nice.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> @5Aces, the Belvedere formed the basis of the mighty Hemi GTX  - I think the Dodge Coronet was built on the same platform. The model you saw, from memory, is a couple of years prior to the GTX below, but they were all built around Detroit's 'intermediate' concept - by modern standards, they are huge. Not 59 Caddy huge, but try* parking *one in the CBD of an Australian city .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The biggest car I've ever been in was a 73 Pontiac Brougham that my father bought when I was in my late teens.  The bench seats were 6 feet wide judging by the fact that I'm 5' 11" and could comfortably lay down on them.  It's the only car I've driven that I had problems perpendicular parking.


----------



## Skylab

My folks had (and still have) a full size early 80's Buick wagon. We call it the Queen Mary. That thing is HUGE.


----------



## trentino

Just got my LCD-2, and they sound great through my M2270. Although I have not heard these hp's out of any other amp yet. I do not regret jumping on the vintage receiver wagon


----------



## Skylab

Very nice! I find my Marantz 2285 especially enjoyable with headphones, and so I am sure the 2270 is the same. Congrats!


----------



## obobskivich

Skylab - you made a point earlier about vintage gear and the few grand into restoration vs modern gear. How do you feel your few thousand dollars restored Pioneer/etc units (or any brand you like - pick whatever) stacks up to (or how does modern gear stack up against them) modern receivers/integrateds in that same two-three thousand range. Like the H/K990 or Yamaha A-S2000?

And I'll leave the car discussion alone to prevent a custom user title.


----------



## Skylab

It's really tough for me to say...I've never compared the Pioneer to anything like that.  My Modern hi-fi is in another price class, so it's not really a fair comparison, plus my preamp is all tube...that said, the Pioneer sounds so good it isn't shamed by my megabuck modern gear, which is pretty amazing...


----------



## obobskivich

skylab said:


> My Modern hi-fi is in another price class




Do I even want to ask?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My folks had (and still have) a full size early 80's Buick wagon. We call it the Queen Mary. That thing is HUGE.


 
   
  I use to enjoy Brunch on the Queen Mary, Long Beach, before rushing to the L.A. Coliseum the see the Raiders back in the day.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





obobskivich said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> did my first partial recap yesterday.  Recapped the power supply on my beloved 2245.  with the guidance of my good friend who is very good at that kind of stuff.
> man its not as simple as i always thought.  and the hardest part isn't getting the caps in and out.  the hard part is reconnecting the wires to the board when you put it back in.
> anyways it played long and loud yesterday evening for a solid 8 hours and it didn't act up.  im still crossing my fingers that the relay was the problem and its fixed.
> i took a lot of breaks, but in total work time i'd say it took 2 hours or less.


 
   
  Drawings are good to keep wiring straight.  Digital pictures can be invaluable too.  I never start taking any audio equipment apart without taking a bunch of hi-rez photos......cheap insurance.  Learned the hard way my memory is not as good as I thought it was.


----------



## obobskivich

bmwr75 said:


> Drawings are good to keep wiring straight.  Digital pictures can be invaluable too.  I never start taking any audio equipment apart without taking a bunch of hi-rez photos......cheap insurance.  Learned the hard way my memory is not as good as I thought it was.




IME, the most obnoxious bits to reassemble are the mechanical pieces (like transport mechanisms; especially those WRETCHED multi-disc creations). Oh, and I will also say that I do not suggest taking apart your double-side-play Laserdisc player without a lot of coffee and time on your hands to get it back together. 

But +1 to the wiring/photo diagrams. Another helpful idea is to put all of the screws in separate bins/containers or otherwise diagram them out; getting the thing back together with the wrong screws or even worse, with leftovers, is never fun to troubleshoot.


----------



## Skylab

I completely disassembled a Pioneer HPM-100 speaker to remove the crossover for recapping...without making any notes whatsoever. Darned good thing there was another speaker left to take apart! Lots of crossover connections on a 4-way speaker...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





obobskivich said:


> Do I even want to ask?


 
   
  Rough ballpark, based purely on the gear in Rob's reviews, he has spent somewhere north of 60K USD on 2-channel audio.


----------



## calipilot227

Posted this earlier in the Vintage Speaker thread, but it couldn't hurt to share it here as well.
   

   
  Picked up this Pioneer SA-6500 II integrated today at Salvation Army. $35
   

   
  It does an incredible job driving my JBL P40's that I picked up yesterday ($40). It's been a good week


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, since I am a klutz I take pictures before I take connections apart.


----------



## palmfish

calipilot227 said:


> Posted this earlier in the Vintage Speaker thread, but it couldn't hurt to share it here as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nice finds!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Picked up this Pioneer SA-6500 II integrated today at Salvation Army. $35
> 
> It does an incredible job driving my JBL P40's that I picked up yesterday ($40). It's been a good week


 
   
  Nice rescue and nice score, win-win!


----------



## pigfatcat

I have my AU-X11 back from the dealers last week after they fixed the problems concerning the external pre-am in connection and no sound out from HP out . My original non-vinatge SS amplifier also came back from repairs for direct comparison. After listening for a week it's time for me to report to you guys . SCD-777ES →AU-XII →Fischer & Fischer Floorstander: AU-X11 added warmth and smoothness to the mid and high , while rounding off the highs and adding bump to the low end ,compared with my modern SS . Male voices benefit all along the spectrum. The same happens to female voices , except that the Suprano sometimes happens to be round off too much, adding warmth at the expense of timbre and detail. Adding a tube pre-am Melody 1688 between SCD777Es and AU-X11 further enhanced smoothness and sweetness to the female voice. This is the combination which my wife prefers most. However, my speakers is not full range , and start to decay below 60hz. The bump in the low tends to exaggerate the mid-low and create an unneceassary mid-low boom for some of the recordings . This is especially so now that the gears are placed in a small bedroom ( the sitting room is occupied by the AV rack) . Turning back to my modern SS amplifier, the sound become clearer , much faster and more focused , revealing more details and tonally more balanced . Overall I prefer the modern sound more, although there is a special open and warm sound associated with this Sansui AU-X11. An audiophie friend auditioned the system . He commented that the good thing about this Sansui can also be achieved by a modern high end high powered tube amplifer , with better extended high frequencies. He believed that my accurate and fast speakers does not have good synegy with the Sansui. A better synergy would be with those old school vintage speakers with horn or ribbon mid and high and 15 inch woofer . I tend to agree with him, these vinatge amplifers are designed to sound best with the speakers of their time. Now let's turn to computer tempotec digital only sound card → Audio GD NFB 10SE DAC/pre → AU-X11 ( pre in ) HP out →HE-6 At first I listened to male and female voices . This is where it shined . The HP out of AU-X11 is more than enough to drive the HE-6. The Audio GD 10SE is already powerful enough to drive HE-6 , pumping 7ws into 50ohm. Using the pre-out of 10SE to AU-X11 , the difference is obvious: a richer and more open sound , added warmed and authority , added sweetness of the female voices and presence of the male voice . It was audio nirvana ! As for comparison with tube amplifer for driving the HE-6, I have only tried Audio Note P-2 before. Audio Note P-2 obviously does not have the juice to drive HE-6 properly . P-2 sounds very rich and smooth ,but for some music will appear dull and lacking in dynamics , the highs are not so extended and the bass is not so plenty and bumpy compared with AU-X11. However, as in the case of speakers, I believe the modern high end and high powered tube headphone amplifers ( Leben , or Hifiman EF6 , or maybe even darkvoice or LD Mk.VIII ) might match AU-XII in it's strengths and have better clarity, higher extension , better layering and detail . This is only what I deduce from my above experience and may not necessarily be true. When it comes to human voice backed up by layers of electronic instruments, or large scale violin concertos , it's another story . AU-X11 gives a rich and authoritative sound . But since there are so many voices and instruments involved, the scene become more congested or chaotic ( only comparatively). The violin and the orchestra obviously suffer from the loss of clarity , micro-detail and speed. This is only when compared with the high powered , accurate and fast modern SS gear . BY itself the AU-X11 is already producing a very convincing and engaging sound . AU-X11 is the first vintage amplifer I tried, and I deliberately chose the TOTL of the TOTL , in order not to be preduiced against the vinatge . The Sansui engineers took the AU919 circuit to the extreme and produced the AU-X1 with the up till then unknown speed and ability to capture the transience , while maintaning the traditional Sansui bass and warmth and round off high . They further refined the AU-X1 by removing the fault in the circuit which leads to the propensity of oscillation . There came AU-X11 . I believe at 1983 AU-X11 might represent the pinnacle of vinatge SS gear . However, I believe also that modern high end SS gear on a whole is of a different league and surpass the level of AU-X11 . But the warm and rich mid , and bumpy bass and round off smooth high of Sansui still works magic for a lot of music , especially the male and female voices ( may be except soprano in my opinion, unless you are using horn or ribbon tweeter). My conclusions is , the more a piece of music require resolution and speed , the less AU-X11 will excel. For example , the Hi-Rez Leonard Cohen album sound so hynoptic and warm on AU-X11 , but the Hi-Rez Aaron Neville album of "Summertime "sounds much better on Audio GD NFB 10-SE alone, which captured the transience, minute details and nuances much better than AU-X11. Although I have not had the chance to compare with Leben , or EF-6, I believe these modern high end high powered tube HP will also on a whole surpass AU-X11 in terms of clarity, layering , tibre, etc. I do hope that some other guys can provide a comparison for Leben a or EF-6 , if not against AU-X11 , then at least against an AU919 to prove or disprove the point.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Posted this earlier in the Vintage Speaker thread, but it couldn't hurt to share it here as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  An extraordinary week!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> I have my AU-X11 back from the dealers last week after they fixed the problems concerning the external pre-am in connection and no sound out from HP out . My original non-vinatge SS amplifier also came back from repairs for direct comparison. After listening for a week it's time for me to report to you guys . SCD-777ES →AU-XII →Fischer & Fischer Floorstander: *AU-X11 added warmth and smoothness to the mid and high , while rounding off the highs and adding bump to the low end ,compared with my modern SS .* Male voices benefit all along the spectrum. The same happens to female voices , except that the Suprano sometimes happens to be round off too much, adding warmth at the expense of timbre and detail. Adding a tube pre-am Melody 1688 between SCD777Es and AU-X11 further enhanced smoothness and sweetness to the female voice. This is the combination which my wife prefers most. However, my speakers is not full range , and start to decay below 60hz. The bump in the low tends to exaggerate the mid-low and create an unneceassary mid-low boom for some of the recordings . This is especially so now that the gears are placed in a small bedroom ( the sitting room is occupied by the AV rack) . Turning back to my modern SS amplifier, the sound become clearer , much faster and more focused , revealing more details and tonally more balanced . Overall I prefer the modern sound more, although there is a special open and warm sound associated with this Sansui AU-X11. An audiophie friend auditioned the system . He commented that the good thing about this Sansui can also be achieved by a modern high end high powered tube amplifer , with better extended high frequencies. He believed that my accurate and fast speakers does not have good synegy with the Sansui. A better synergy would be with those old school vintage speakers with horn or ribbon mid and high and 15 inch woofer . I tend to agree with him, these vinatge amplifers are designed to sound best with the speakers of their time. Now let's turn to computer tempotec digital only sound card → Audio GD NFB 10SE DAC/pre → AU-X11 ( pre in ) HP out →HE-6 At first I listened to male and female voices . This is where it shined . The HP out of AU-X11 is more than enough to drive the HE-6. The Audio GD 10SE is already powerful enough to drive HE-6 , pumping 7ws into 50ohm. Using the pre-out of 10SE to AU-X11 , the difference is obvious: a richer and more open sound , added warmed and authority , added sweetness of the female voices and presence of the male voice . It was audio nirvana ! As for comparison with tube amplifer for driving the HE-6, I have only tried Audio Note P-2 before. Audio Note P-2 obviously does not have the juice to drive HE-6 properly . P-2 sounds very rich and smooth ,but for some music will appear dull and lacking in dynamics , the highs are not so extended and the bass is not so plenty and bumpy compared with AU-X11. However, as in the case of speakers, I believe the modern high end and high powered tube headphone amplifers ( Leben , or Hifiman EF6 , or maybe even darkvoice or LD Mk.VIII ) might match AU-XII in it's strengths and have better clarity, higher extension , better layering and detail . This is only what I deduce from my above experience and may not necessarily be true. When it comes to human voice backed up by layers of electronic instruments, or large scale violin concertos , it's another story . AU-X11 gives a rich and authoritative sound . But since there are so many voices and instruments involved, the scene become more congested or chaotic ( only comparatively). The violin and the orchestra obviously suffer from the loss of clarity , micro-detail and speed. This is only when compared with the high powered , accurate and fast modern SS gear . BY itself the AU-X11 is already producing a very convincing and engaging sound . AU-X11 is the first vintage amplifer I tried, and I deliberately chose the TOTL of the TOTL , in order not to be preduiced against the vinatge . The Sansui engineers took the AU919 circuit to the extreme and produced the AU-X1 with the up till then unknown speed and ability to capture the transience , while maintaning the traditional Sansui bass and warmth and round off high . They further refined the AU-X1 by removing the fault in the circuit which leads to the propensity of oscillation . There came AU-X11 . I believe at 1983 AU-X11 might represent the pinnacle of vinatge SS gear . However, I believe also that modern high end SS gear on a whole is of a different league and surpass the level of AU-X11 . But the warm and rich mid , and bumpy bass and round off smooth high of Sansui still works magic for a lot of music , especially the male and female voices ( may be except soprano in my opinion, unless you are using horn or ribbon tweeter). My conclusions is , the more a piece of music require resolution and speed , the less AU-X11 will excel. For example , the Hi-Rez Leonard Cohen album sound so hynoptic and warm on AU-X11 , but the Hi-Rez Aaron Neville album of "Summertime "sounds much better on Audio GD NFB 10-SE alone, which captured the transience, minute details and nuances much better than AU-X11. Although I have not had the chance to compare with Leben , or EF-6, I believe these modern high end high powered tube HP will also on a whole surpass AU-X11 in terms of clarity, layering , tibre, etc. I do hope that some other guys can provide a comparison for Leben a or EF-6 , if not against AU-X11 , then at least against an AU919 to prove or disprove the point.


 
   
  I totally agree with you on bold part! You Sir can really describe the sound!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As for the comparison of AU-D11 and modern gears, I think there are huge concept differences between modern and vintage audio design. Modern gears focus more on flat response, vintage gears focus on reproducing live feeling. And I think we have to consider the microphones and other recording equipments too.
   
  Skylab has a brief comparison of Leben and Pionny vintage gears, you can find it at early part of this thread. Or he may chime in!


----------



## ashbeowulf

Just picked up a Sansui 881 today off of Craigslist  40 dollars later, I am extremely happy with my purchase! have to run the controls through some Deoxit, but after that, it will be super amazing! It joins the growing family  Right now there are a couple dings and a missing mic level knob, but other than that it's in fantastic shape


----------



## estreeter

Yep, the same Head-Fiers who enjoy tube distortion enjoy vintage SS distortion. You guys (!) all belong in the same loony bin. Even then, I bet you'd prefer vinyl over digital.


----------



## moodyrn

Could you explain what that statement is suppose to mean. I hope it's not suppose to be funny, because I don't find it funny or amusing at all. To me that's taking a shot at everyone on this thread who enjoy either tube or vintage gear. Also for your info, vintage solid state is just like everything else. Some do have higher than average distortion, but a whole lot of vintage gear measures quite well. And to add, there are some tube amps that measure as well as typical modern solid state amps when it comes to distortion levels.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


>


 
   
  Would you kindly explain your decision or motivation to type sentences without spacing?


----------



## palmfish

Pretty obvious to me that it was tongue in cheek humor. Relax and enjoy the music...


----------



## Silent One

And my comment was no different nor is anyone tense. Still to come, my listening session in two hours with my seldom used SX-650. Gonna make sure it's still with me! Meanwhile, I'm going to shop for Monster receivers online...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Pretty obvious to me that it was tongue in cheek humor. Relax and enjoy the music...


 
   
  Thanks palmfish - clearly, some of us take this hobby a little too seriously. I had previously thought that there was room for a little light-hearted banter in this thread - apparently some dont see it that way. Hate to step on anyone's religion - I'll juat take my bat and ball and go home.


----------



## Silent One

Actually, it was my humor that was overlooked... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and that's ok. We got music! O, I know why this escaped you two, my post appears right underneath moodryn's, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and he wasn't jokin', baby!


----------



## pigfatcat

silent one said:


> Would you kindly explain your decision or motivation to type sentences without spacing?



 
 I really don't know. When I typed on my computer, I had all the sentence and paragraph spacing . After submitting, I discovered as appeared on the web page all spacing and paragraghing was gone . It could have something to do with the incompatibility of the input software( I was actually keying in English using the Chinese Input sofware ) Or it might have something to do with the Firefox browser. I really don't know. Now after previewing this message I found the same thing to have happened ! I do hope that I did not offend anyone by doing so. I really found that some Headfiers here tend to get hot easily. By the way, when I posted the impressions I was keeping the level on the Audio Gd 10 SE at a constant level, and reduced the power am level on the AU-X11 to -14db, for easy AB comparison for every song. After posting I dicovered a strange phenomenon: by keeping the power amplifer on AU-X11 always at full power , and switching the level on 10SE every time I want to compare the sound from the 10SE alone , the resulting sound from AU-X11 is even better : better clarity , openess and depth . In so doing, I was actually leaving more amplifying work to be performed by the AU-X11 rather than 10SE, and the result tend to be better. Now even with Heifeitz's Sibelious Violin Concerto, although you could still notice a lack of speed and minute detail , and that in fact each part of the orchestral instruments are a liitle bit out of proportions, but then the richer tone, and apparently better dynamics , the force and presence of the whole orchestra in play is so engaging and convincing that you tend not to pay attention to these technical lackings. I also begin to notice one thing: recordings from 60s to 80s tend to sound better on AU-X11. I believe this has something to do with the recordings: which were monitored in the studios using the speakers and amplifers of that era, and was supposed to be recorded so that they'd sound good on the amplifers and speakers available in that era for the consumers.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Yep, the same Head-Fiers who enjoy tube distortion enjoy vintage SS distortion. You guys (!) all belong in the same loony bin. Even then, I bet you'd prefer vinyl over digital.


 
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Could you explain what that statement is suppose to mean.


 
   
  Since I can recall some of estreeter's posting history, I'm pretty sure he's was being silly, and that he is counting himself among the loonies in our bin.
   
  The ironic tone might cut a little close to home, given some of the arguments that really do flare up here, so at the worst I'd say it's a good joke with imperfect delivery.
   
  Guys, I like the contributions both of you make here and don't want to see you two getting into an argument about something _you both agree on_.


----------



## BGRoberts

Yep, I be one of the loonies!




  It's so fun!
   
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Yep, the same Head-Fiers who enjoy tube distortion enjoy vintage SS distortion. You guys (!) all belong in the same loony bin. Even then, I bet you'd prefer vinyl over digital.


----------



## moodyrn

Let me say a few things. First of all, I don't know if he was joking. He didn't come off as if he was. And if he was, how would I know it? I have a sense of humor as well. And when I'm joking, and when it's been obvious others are joking, it's usually follow with something like....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.. or...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...etc. He left no indication he was joking. That's the reason no one had a problem with the comments Silent One made because he made it obvious he was joking with the examples I just mention. So when you don't make it obvious your are just kidding around, you have to take comments at face value. So the statements he made came off as offensive. Also Silent One didn't make blanket statements that included a whole group of people. And finally, when you are face to face with a person, it's easy to discern when you are joking because of facial expressions or tone of voice. You don't get that with words on a computer screen and without the examples mentioned above or some other indicators, words has to be taken as they are. He showed no indication he was joking. And even if he was, the type of comments he made, still was uncalled for.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Yep, the same Head-Fiers who enjoy tube distortion enjoy vintage SS distortion. You guys (!) all belong in the same loony bin. Even then, I bet you'd prefer vinyl over digital.


 
   
  That looks like a green smiley-face emoticon to me - anyone ? No 'edited by' - it was in the original post - and clearly I must be a sucker for punishment if I joined Audiokarma knowing the majority of their interest lies with vintage kit. Chill out. 
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/member.php?u=137827
   
  Perhaps I would be better off at Audio Asylum.


----------



## MrQ

Gold-plated Nakamichi anyone? On the Bay for $19000 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*link in pic


----------



## moodyrn

You know what, I completely missed that. lol, and I apologize and please disregard what I said. Must be getting early male menopause.


----------



## estreeter

Apology accepted - its been a long day. Too much gear and waaaaaaay too few dollars.


----------



## moodyrn

Still don't think it was funny. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I guess you will always have people who prefer a sound that's bright, harsh, grainy, and lifeless.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> Yep, I be one of the loonies!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Why be normal? Being crazy is so much more fun!


----------



## Skylab

Anyone who pays that much for a cassette deck truly is loony. I like the look of my Pioneer CT-F1000 better, and it was less than $200. I thought that was a lot for a cassette deck! But the CT-F1000 is a serious 3-head deck that was $600 back in 1979. I'm sure that Nak was even more, but STILL...


----------



## palmfish

Someone, somewhere,has been searching for that Nakamichi for years and years. It's the last piece they need to make their collection complete. It's a miracle that it's come on the market. They can't let it slip away from them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's good to see the thread return to its natural rhythm. And thanks for your reply, though I wasn't really looking for one. I was ribbing you (joking). This followed my attempt to read your post just after sitting down with a bowl of super premium ice-cream. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, was it delicious! And it had my attention - looking up between spoonfuls and finding my place in your post became impossible. And was humorous to me as I kept trying, 'cause reading about audio is a pleasure as well.
   
  Not sure what kind of night estreeter and palmfish were having prior to my post. True that outsiders will not always know what a poster truly means but if in doubt, try asking would be my suggesting. In my view, I thought it was obvious that I was joking.
   
  Plenty of ball left to be played, estreeter. Hope you return with your ball and your bat. I still have a Monster receiver to buy... and your contributions can help.


----------



## pigfatcat

Guys, I have a theory here which I deduced from my previous experience as an audipphile and my recent listening from my AU-X11, and would like to invite comments from you guys : I was comparing 60-80s recordings ( hereinafter called "ORs") and 90s onward recordings(hereinafter called "NRs") , from Hong Kong and Taiwan, which I am more familiar with ( you guys may add your input concerning NA and Europe sources). I found that generally ORs tend to sound better on the vintage gears and NRs tend to sound better on the new gears ( whether tube or SS , but in particualr SS, which are charcterized by higher resolution, speed , clarity etc.). Please don't start to argue that some new recordings sound extremely well in 60 tube gear etc., There are always exceptions and deviations from trend. From what I observed, there may be several reasons: 1. From late 80s onward, new gears have evolved or matured to the state and be available in the studios and consumer markets, such that recording engineers in the studios built in those desired qualities or "distortions'" ( such as warmth, sweetness , reverberations, airiness , bass , etc.) into the recordings themselves. The recording engineers twisted this and that and monitored the effects in their neutral ,fast and accurate gears in the studio, until they found the desired results or "distortions". They 're thus satisfied with their results and were confident that these recordings would also sound good on the new neutral and fast gears of the consumers out there. 2. The compositions of the ORs tend to be simple , the human voice plus several supporting instruments , each distinct and playing their proper part on and off at vaious points as the song goes along. These ORs are also very good for Karaoke. So long as you are musical enough , you can sing and achieve even better results than the original recordings. In NRs, apart from the twisting of the voices, they also twisted the instruments , or simply twisted the electronic sound to blend in with each other and the human voices. The result is a more organic structure, which require more accurate and neutral reproduction of sound at the consumer end to sound as they intended or to sound good. Using old gears ,( or new gears aimed at producing pleasant distortions) to play might not acheive the desirable results and in many cases results in an overdo ( there may be exceptions of course!) 3. For ORs, the singer really have to sing well , in order that the recording sound good and musical. Otherwise you may also alleviate by using some very " musical " gear , probably tube gear ,in playing the music. In NRs, the recording engineers and composers played such an important part that even the musically dumb new signers can achieve satisfactory results . It'd be another world when they come to live performance . But then nowadays, the live preformances are pre-occupied by costumes, dances, special effects, guest performances and duets , theme lines , re-arranging etc. which tend to distract your attention. These are just my 2 cs. Hope may trigger some thought.


----------



## pigfatcat

To illustrate my point further , they can now do it without the hardware in the studio, by simply doing it with software. Like this " Diamond Cut" http://www.diamondcut.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=31 There are filters inside which can simulate the sound of 2A3. 300B, tridoe, pentode, Mosfet, etc, All of the waveforms are extensively sampled from real gears. You can twist diferent parts of the spectrum .There are tens of combinations. Just open the WAV file of your beloved music in the software, and the rest will be converted to your choice and directly sent to the gear attached to your computer for playing.


----------



## pigfatcat

Of course you need fast , neutral and accurate modern gear attached to your computer to relect the changes and the desired effect . If you are using vinatge or tube gear to monitor the difference of the original file and the converted file, you may not fully appreciate. Or it may result in overdo or even weired result.


----------



## Rawrbington

Black keys being played extremely loud out of my fortes. Trying to drown my sorrows after watching the thunder lose. Man I love the marantz 2245 so stinking much. 
Sure the neighbors hate it though.
I can not put my finger on what it does that others don't. I guess I should reserve judging the 2270 till it gets out of the shop with fresh caps and some amp board work. 

For whatever reason I prefer the slightly chubby sound of the earlier 22xx series over the newer ones. But I've only sampled the 2235b and 2265b.

Guys I'm really upset here with this loss


----------



## pigfatcat

In my case , I found the combination of Tempotec digital only sound card, Audio GD NFB 10 SE and HE-6 serve the purpose of monitoring the difference very well, by being extremely neutral, fast, accurate, and resolving. Sorry I have to type in different posts to get around the problem of line and paragraph spacing.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> Guys, I have a theory here which I deduced from my previous experience as an audipphile and my recent listening from my AU-X11, and would like to invite comments from you guys : I was comparing 60-80s recordings ( hereinafter called "ORs") and 90s onward recordings(hereinafter called "NRs") , from Hong Kong and Taiwan, which I am more familiar with ( you guys may add your input concerning NA and Europe sources). I found that generally ORs tend to sound better on the vintage gears and NRs tend to sound better on the new gears ( whether tube or SS , but in particualr SS, which are charcterized by higher resolution, speed , clarity etc.). Please don't start to argue that some new recordings sound extremely well in 60 tube gear etc., There are always exceptions and deviations from trend. From what I observed, there may be several reasons: 1. From late 80s onward, new gears have evolved or matured to the state and be available in the studios and consumer markets, such that recording engineers in the studios built in those desired qualities or "distortions'" ( such as warmth, sweetness , reverberations, airiness , bass , etc.) into the recordings themselves. The recording engineers twisted this and that and monitored the effects in their neutral ,fast and accurate gears in the studio, until they found the desired results or "distortions". They 're thus satisfied with their results and were confident that these recordings would also sound good on the new neutral and fast gears of the consumers out there. 2. The compositions of the ORs tend to be simple , the human voice plus several supporting instruments , each distinct and playing their proper part on and off at vaious points as the song goes along. These ORs are also very good for Karaoke. So long as you are musical enough , you can sing and achieve even better results than the original recordings. In NRs, apart from the twisting of the voices, they also twisted the instruments , or simply twisted the electronic sound to blend in with each other and the human voices. The result is a more organic structure, which require more accurate and neutral reproduction of sound at the consumer end to sound as they intended or to sound good. Using old gears ,( or new gears aimed at producing pleasant distortions) to play might not acheive the desirable results and in many cases results in an overdo ( there may be exceptions of course!) 3. For ORs, the singer really have to sing well , in order that the recording sound good and musical. Otherwise you may also alleviate by using some very " musical " gear , probably tube gear ,in playing the music. In NRs, the recording engineers and composers played such an important part that even the musically dumb new signers can achieve satisfactory results . It'd be another world when they come to live performance . But then nowadays, the live preformances are pre-occupied by costumes, dances, special effects, guest performances and duets , theme lines , re-arranging etc. which tend to distract your attention. These are just my 2 cs. Hope may trigger some thought.


 
   
  I don't know anything about music industry, but I do agree with you for most parts.
  Someone mentioned in other forums that in old days, each member in band only owns one mic; nowadays even drummer has 4-5 mics. And remastering plays big role in the album, so you will find that there sometimes has huge difference between album and live.
  But this thread is for amps, I would leave the recording to other thread. Just my 2 cents!
  Meanwhile, just enjoy music!!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> For whatever reason I prefer the slightly chubby sound of the earlier 22xx series over the newer ones. But I've only sampled the 2235b and 2265b.


 
   
  FWIW, so do many/most people, from what I have read, although to be clear, I have only owned the earlier series (2245 and 2275 which are gone, and the 2285 which I am listening to as I type this).


----------



## Rawrbington

How does the 2275 do with orthos and planars?
   
  ive been thinking about the LCD 2 or HE500 for a while now.  just not sure how theyll match up with any of my amps.  most likely use with the 2270 or 2245


----------



## Skylab

2275 was great with the HE-6, I used that combo a lot.


----------



## Rawrbington

Headphone jack or speaker taps?


----------



## Skylab

I used the headphone jack. Delivers several watts from there into 50 ohms.


----------



## Rawrbington

Excellent!
With my new found love of speakers I may trim the fat in my headphone and amp collection. Just a pair of orthos from a marantz. Then I can focus some funds elsewhere


----------



## moodyrn

The best I've heard my he6 was with the dark star. The second best I've heard them was with my marantz 2325. We had them side by side so we could do a&b comparisons, and it was a very close second. I've listened to them on about 15 to 20 different amps and those two combinations really stood out for me. So I'm sure you will be pleased with the results. Also sounded pretty darn good with a pair of hd800s as well.
   
  I haven't steered you wrong yet.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Excellent!
> With my new found love of speakers I may trim the fat in my headphone and amp collection. Just a pair of orthos from a marantz. Then I can focus some funds elsewhere


 
   
   
  +1
   
  I am thinking the same thing. I haven't yet decided to sell my T1, but I'm certain the HE-6 and the W3000ANV will be staying. I love both of them from my 2265B.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





pigfatcat said:


> In my case , I found the combination of Tempotec digital only sound card, Audio GD NFB 10 SE and HE-6 serve the purpose of monitoring the difference very well, by being extremely neutral, fast, accurate, and resolving. Sorry I have to type in different posts to get around the problem of line and paragraph spacing.


 
   
  pigfatcat, your posts are fine. Maybe I should stop trying to savor ice-cream 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and just read.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm still waiting to bring the two of them together - a vintage amp and HE-6. I want to hear what everyone else seems to be hearing... _the magic._


----------



## Rawrbington

For whatever reasons, could be combination of my headphones but all 4 of my vintage marantz have almost a dead silent HP jack. No hiss, very black background. My pioneers and sansui require the -20 db switch. And the marantz all seem to give you more play with the volume knob. It's not blisteringly loud at 9 o'clock where on all my other vintage receivers it is, unless you use the switch

@meewoo, you haven't! It's been all great and very enjoyable. I'm more hooked on my old gear than my WA2


----------



## Skylab

Only my Sansui requires the muting switch. My Marantz and Pioneers do not.


----------



## MohawkUS

I can't be the only one using a pair of vintage STAX and a transformer box out of one of these can I? I find that there is an even better value to be found in vintage headphones than amps, mainly as they don't have to be restored to sound their best. 

 More on topic though, I just bought a restored Sherwood S-7800. I'll get some pics up when it arrives. I also got in a fully restored Tandberg TCD-300 cassette deck for a grand total of $40. It's a very good sound from cassette, a shame my tapes can't pull the best of it. My dad has a chrome tape with a star wars soundtrack on it that he got quite a few years ago, the background is dead quiet and it sounds amazing. My tapes are hiss city.


----------



## moodyrn

I use to run a pair of lambda pros and lambda sigs via srd 7 out of my fisher tube integrated. It was an awesome sounding setup. Vintage stax do hold a very high value. I would take that setup over any hd800, t1, d7000 setup I've listened to. I miss my stax setups a lot. Only a matter of time till they will one day reside in my home again.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> Only my Sansui requires the muting switch. My Marantz and Pioneers do not.


 

Only my Sansui require the mute button as well, but unfortunately my 517 don't have it. Hoping to find a decent deal on a 717 for that reason.


----------



## Rawrbington

How would you compare the 9090 to the sx 1250?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I can't be the only one using a pair of vintage STAX and a transformer box out of one of these can I?


 
  You could be, but you're not. Moodyrn has already outed himself, so I'll do likewise: SRD-7 Pro xfrmr box, SR-X Mk3, Lambdas Pro, Sig, Nova Basic, 303, and, with an adapter, Koss ESP.950. I have an SRM-1 Mk2 Professional (C series), but I prefer doing it the old-fashioned way, with a gigantic amp and the humble little SRD-7.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, your post destroyed mine. Wow you have some impressive stax gear. I feel so small now. :mad:
There was a time I owned an srm1 c version, t1s, srd 7 pro and sb. All gone and by far my biggest regret. I preferred the vintage t1s but the srm1 might be the biggest stax amp value ever,


----------



## MohawkUS

Nice. I just have a somewhat humble SRD-6SB and SR-5 headphones. How much is there to gain from upgrading to a higher end transformer box? I guess first thing on my list should be a proper DAC. My current(unrestored) sherwood sounds harsh with everything but when the new one comes in I'm pretty sure it won't be so forgiving with the onboard. I've also got a Dual 701 turntable coming in. Would be a shame if the problems I was having with the 1209 were just a phono stage on it's way out. 

 I'm really stunned how good these Stax sound, I wasn't sure what to expect when I got them but if they really can compete on a level that high-end I guess I'm set. I pretty much payed the same for the Stax and T-box as I did for my Ultrasone 2900s. They certainly don't sound lacking in any way to me, but I've never been a fan of an overly warm and weighty sound. I've also never heard a high end headphone or speaker setup for that matter. And don't feel bad moodyrn, your stax is probably on a higher level than mine.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Nice. I just have a somewhat humble SRD-6SB and SR-5 headphones. How much is there to gain from upgrading to a higher end transformer box?


 
  Having an AC bias supply will tie you to the power grid but will provide a steadier bias voltage for those times you want to listen at a background level. Mostly, though, it's cleaner (read: louder) bass. And the SR-5 has, as I recall, the same driver as the SR-X Mk3, just tweaked differently. I like the Lambdas, but the SR-X is an old sentimental favorite from my radio days, and contemporaneous with your SR-5. Anyway, see if you can find an old SRD-7 cheap. It'll take a lot more power than the spec sheet says.


----------



## Skylab

wualta said:


> You could be, but you're not. Moodyrn has already outed himself, so I'll do likewise: SRD-7 Pro xfrmr box, SR-X Mk3, Lambdas Pro, Sig, Nova Basic, 303, and, with an adapter, Koss ESP.950. I have an SRM-1 Mk2 Professional (C series), but I prefer doing it the old-fashioned way, with a gigantic amp and the humble little SRD-7.




Hey Wualta,

I've been eyeing a SR-X Mk3 and SRD-7 pair to use with my vintage rig...can you please comment on the SR-XMk3 a bit? Good?

Rawbington, the Sansui 9090DB is warmer sounding than the 1250, but very slightly less transparent, IMHO, and the bass is a bit looser. This in spite of the fact that my 1250 is stock, and my 9090 is completely recapped and restored. Nonetheless, the 9090 is an impressive receiver in its own right, and I like it very much. I use it actually exclusively with headphones.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Rawbington, the Sansui 9090DB is warmer sounding than the 1250, but very slightly less transparent, IMHO, and the bass is a bit looser. This in spite of the fact that my 1250 is stock, and my 9090 is completely recapped and restored. Nonetheless, the 9090 is an impressive receiver in its own right, and I like it very much. I use it actually exclusively with headphones.


 
  perfect, exactly what i wanted to know.  been eyeballing a local 1250 but its expensive.  he wants 650 for it.  its recently been worked on.  doubt a full recap though.
  and i have an 8080 which sounds pretty much the same as the 9090 that i've listened to.
   
  not sure the 1250 is worth that without a full recap.  maybe i can get him to budge a little on the price, say down to 500ish and then offer my sx 950 + cash as a trade.
  decisions decisions


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





mrq said:


> Gold-plated Nakamichi anyone? On the Bay for $19000
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Back on the early 80's I saw a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck gold plated with the name of the then Mexico's president engraved. The owner of the store in Laredo Tx. told me it was a special order from somebody in Mexico as a gift to the president. I don't remember how much it was but it was A TON of money.


----------



## scompton

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Having an AC bias supply will tie you to the power grid but will provide a steadier bias voltage for those times you want to listen at a background level. Mostly, though, it's cleaner (read: louder) bass. And the SR-5 has, as I recall, the same driver as the SR-X Mk3, just tweaked differently. I like the Lambdas, but the SR-X is an old sentimental favorite from my radio days, and contemporaneous with your SR-5. Anyway, see if you can find an old SRD-7 cheap. It'll take a lot more power than the spec sheet says.


 
   
  I thought it was the SR-5N that had the same driver as the SR-X MkIII and SR-Gamma?


----------



## MohawkUS

scompton said:


> I thought it was the SR-5N that had the same driver as the SR-X MkIII and SR-Gamma?




 Yeah, it's the SR-5NB which is the one I have. The original SR-5 in white was one step lower than the SR-X I believe. I believe mine is from the mid-late 80s as I have the newer ribbon cord. As for the question on the SR-X MKIII, from the research I did before I bought these the SR-X was more of a studio monitor while the SR-5NB was a tweaked consumer version with a slightly warmer sound and a little more bass. The SR-X also seems to be supra-aural like a Grado while the 5 is over-ear. I almost want to say that my SR-5NB has as much bass as my Ultrasone 2900 did, but it's much tighter, doesn't go as low, and is completely flat as opposed to having a mid bass boom. It certainly hits harder than the Ultrasone ever did. There is a drum solo in one of my favorite Reverend Bizzare tracks that goes on for at least 7 minutes. It sounds like you're sitting right in front of the drum set and when you flick on the loudness switch you'll really be in for a treat. Pretty much the SR-X is a little more transparent and a little less fun. I'd say go for it if you can get a good deal on it. There was an SR-X going for about $200 here a while ago, so that should give you a good idea on price.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hey Wualta,
> I've been eyeing a SR-X Mk3 and SRD-7 pair to use with my vintage rig...can you please comment on the SR-XMk3 a bit? Good?
> Rawbington, the Sansui 9090DB is warmer sounding than the 1250, but very slightly less transparent, IMHO, and the bass is a bit looser. This in spite of the fact that my 1250 is stock, and my 9090 is completely recapped and restored. Nonetheless, the 9090 is an impressive receiver in its own right, and I like it very much. I use it actually exclusively with headphones.


 
  Skylab to be honest, I like the srx, sr5, gama series of stax. But the gems lie in all of the old lambda series. It's cans like the series I mentioned that gave stax the rep for being bass lite. Don't get me wrong, they are very good in their own right. But all of the lambdas, no matter which one(normal, pro, sig or even the newer nova series) can compete with 1000.00 cans. And they can be had for not much more than the other series mentioned. I only sold mine because of he6, and 407(which later got sold after getting the w3000anv because they were too similar to the slightly better he6).


----------



## Skylab

Thanks Moodyrn, that's helpful. I don't want a pair of bass-lite Stax.


----------



## ashbeowulf

Well, after a few days playing my CR-820 side by side with my Sansui 881, I think I prefer the Yamaha. I prefer the controls, and the tuner is amazingly awesome. After zapping the antenna terminal with some deoxit and getting a decent antenna hooked up, I get good reception on stations I couldn't ever get with the Sansui! So, if anyone's in the northern NJ area and wants a Sansui 881 cheap lemme know


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've been eyeing a SR-X Mk3 and SRD-7 pair to use with my vintage rig...can you please comment on the SR-XMk3 a bit? Good?


 
  Not just good. But, as MohawkUSA implied, and as I've said before in some now-ancient threads, the SR-X isn't for everyone. "Amazingly ruthless" and "damnably revealing" keep coming up as descriptors. Stax took an SR-3 type driver, enlarged it, then critically damped it. They sacrificed headstage and low bass to get the most tightly-controlled diaphragm in all of headphonedom. It's just like slightly overdamping a good ortho-- you'll hear every tiny little thing on that recording. Which is the way I had to listen to them, since I was doing field recordings for my radio station and sometimes feeding them to the infant NPR. But it's not the way most people listen, or want to. And the SR-X stinks at playing back binaural recordings.
   
  You could probably use the SR-X to go hunting for the difference in sound between amplifiers. That's the kind of headphone it is.
   
  As for the bass reputation: the SR-X will play exceedingly loud and stay utterly clean; thus It will take bass boost very well. So is it bass-lite? A little, but you have the tools to change that. This is why I like my old MOSFET amps-- they're bass-fearless, even with lots of boost into a difficult load like a transformer box. Still, you'd never use the term "romantic" to describe the SR-X, bass boost or no.
   
  The point is that you should at least audition an SR-X before you die. No one ever made another headphone like it (unless you count the closed SR-4070, which some compare to the SR-X, but which I haven't heard). As the name implies, it's a special headphone for special people listening in a special way. For a live-in companion, one of the Lambdas would be a much safer recommendation.
   
  Try to find the most versatile SRD-7 variant, the SRD-7 Mk 2. This has one high-bias jack and one low-bias jack. You used to be able to get a conversion kit from Spritzer for a standard SRD-7 that let you change one of its jacks to high bias.
   
    
  Quote:


scompton said:


> I thought it was the SR-5N that had the same driver as the SR-X MkIII and SR-Gamma?


 
  You may be right. Spritzer might have the lowdown on this from the Stax folks themselves. I know they're related, and both based on the SR-3 driver, but bigger (at least in the case of the SR-X Mk3), and damped *very* differently from one another.


----------



## Skylab

Hmmm...in that case they might be awesome with my SX-1980 and it's very sophisticated tone controls  Will have to give that more thought. Thanks Wualta.


----------



## nick n

Thought I'd check in and say I also run a Stax SRD-6 with the SR-5's off my vintage stuff, the Nikko Receiver and the Lafayette Integrated. Also running the AT-705, PWB Stats, and SR-50 off them.


----------



## MohawkUS

I always find it weird that the SR-X is considered so ruthless. Despite having the same drivers the tweaks made to make it into a SR-5NB must have really changed things around. Most of my music is pretty poor quality from either recording or mastering but it's not at all hard to listen to. I always loved the brightish sound of Grado and Ultrasone but they made my music painful to listen to. Sure the STAX are revealing but they get timbre right and I really need electrostats to keep up with the speed of my fastest metal. Harshness is just as noticeable but it doesn't hurt like it does with a dynamic. You won't be throwing them off your head, but it won't be masked either. low bitrate MP3s sound horrendously bad, but the loudness from modern CDs isn't anywhere near as bad as you'd think with these. The ultrasones I had were the other way around, low bitrate MP3 sounded a bit smeary, and loud recordings hurt to listen to.

 Wualta is 100% right on their ability to take bass boost, mine can be boosted up enough that the drives is hitting against something else inside the enclosure and up to that point they don't distort though it's kinda obvious when the bass is coming from the amp and not the source, the timbre is different. I usually go without the boost though, they sound good the way they are. I also find that the soundstage goes as far as the recording lets it, out of all the headphones I've tried it's only second to the 598 in that regard, but everything sounded big with them. I really don't know what to say about low bass, the bass is very well controlled all the way down. It's easier to hear the lower notes in a headphone without a mid-bass boost but I don't have many recordings that go deep enough to show weakness there. You may want to try and find an SR-5N or SR-5NB Skylab. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## 5aces

Run an SR-X Mark 3 & SRD-7/SB off the Sansui AU 20000.
Still a relevant headphone to this day.
Monitor like sound,I use them more than the JH-13,as I prefer open headphones.
For what you will pay,they are a great vintage bargain.
Find some,hang 'em up near your vintage gear and get satisfied...
Recommended,


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hmmm...in that case they might be awesome with my SX-1980 and it's very sophisticated tone controls.


 
   
  The SX-1980 appears to have an unusual setup: low-low-bass and high-high-treble controls alongside low-bass and high-treble controls. Plus a LOUDNESS switch. It would be interesting indeed to see what all that could do with the SR-X.
   
  Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I always find it weird that the SR-X is considered so ruthless. Despite having the same drivers the tweaks made to make it into a SR-5NB must have really changed things around. ... I always loved the brightish sound of Grado and Ultrasone but they made my music painful to listen to. Sure the STAX are revealing but they get timbre right... Harshness is just as noticeable but it doesn't hurt like it does with a dynamic.  ...You won't be disappointed.


 
   
  Ruthless by comparison to most headphones that, let's be honest, too often shamelessly pander to you-- they kiss your behind but won't tell you the truth about what's coming down the wire. The SR-X is the no-bullshunt headphone. You get the impression pretty quickly that any audio waveform is elementary at best to the SR-X, and that includes distortion products. No drama, no crying out in pain, just a dispassionate transcription of music and distortion being fed to it, at pretty much any SPL. You'd be surprised how not-fun that can be sometimes, yet how exhilarating it can be at others.  And yes, the tradeoffs made by the SR-5 and SR-X are very different. I have not heard an SR-5N, though.


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, if you are looking for an energizer box or if you already have one I could loan you an SRD7 that Birgir modified and which I have been using for about a year with a Marantz 2230B. Nice sound and it will provide you with a point of reference  to compare. I am leaving on a week long vacation but if you shoot me a PM I could send it upon my return. Cheers.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for that kind offer, Miguel! But I don't have the SRX yet  I'm thinking seriously about it though. 

And you got it, Wualta, it's the low-low bass control of the SX-1980 that's really effective at boosting bass without mucking the midrange.


----------



## WiR3D

Some really nice gear here, I'm still on my crusade for my fathers 50th present. And it has become clear that vintage is the way to go, when I once was sceptical on the idea.
  So I started looking for places to get refurbished vintage amps. I came across http://www.oaktreevintage.com. But earlier in the thread Skylab said they only replace what is really bad. So I am uncertain. 
   
  I was looking at the Pioneer SX-890. 
   
  I'm going to pair it with a Project Debut Carbon and  Grado SR325/Allesandro MS2/Hifiman HE-400.
  the amp MUST have tone controls, and good ones. 
   
  If not from there, then where should I look to buy? Its worth it to note I need international shipping.


----------



## Skylab

Actually I don't recall commenting on oaktreevintage - I have no direct experience with them. I have looked at their website quite a bit for parts, which they seem to have a lot of. In general a lot of places do in fact replace or repair only what is truly broken - finding a full restoration shop/person is a bit trickier. 

Shipping heavy vintage gear overseas is a very expensive proposition. You have no potential local sources?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Actually I don't recall commenting on oaktreevintage - I have no direct experience with them. I have looked at their website quite a bit for parts, which they seem to have a lot of. In general a lot of places do in fact replace or repair only what is truly broken - finding a full restoration shop/person is a bit trickier.
> Shipping heavy vintage gear overseas is a very expensive proposition. You have no potential local sources?


 
  None, I looked a fair amount, there are the odd vintage amps for sale second hand, but no restorers, the odds are the ones that do restore won't have a website.
  You did mention you havent worked with them directly. I know the shipping will be expensive, I also just realized I will need a power transformer 240v to 120v. arg.
  I'm going to try look around locally a bit more. More easily said then done.
   
  The pioneer seems a good bet otherwise, no?


----------



## BGRoberts

My "new" Pioneer SX-1250 is scheduled to be delivered this week.
  I'm stoked.
  This has been on my want list for literally decades.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> My "new" Pioneer S-1250 is scheduled to be delivered this week.
> I'm stoked.
> This has been on my want list for literally decades.


 
  Congrats! Can't wait to see the pics


----------



## Skylab

I guess the 890 is a black-dial SX-880. In that case, the $500 they are asking for it seems a bit steep. They do provide a detailed list of what was done to it, and they did do quite a bit of work, but not a complete recap.

SX-880's seem to run $200-250 in good condition these days, although you can get them cheaper. 

Just food for thought.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I guess the 890 is a black-dial SX-880. In that case, the $500 they are asking for it seems a bit steep. They do provide a detailed list of what was done to it, and they did do quite a bit of work, but not a complete recap.
> SX-880's seem to run $200-250 in good condition these days, although you can get them cheaper.
> Just food for thought.


 
  Thank you for that.  
  I'm out till I do more digging of my own. Gonna lurk for more pretty pictures ha.


----------



## MohawkUS

Well this is a bit awkward. My neighbor right across the street lost his water last week(we use wells here) and we helped them out. Apparently my dad and him were talking and it came out that I've been messing with vintage receivers and such. He has 2 old Pioneers sitting around that haven't seen use in years. One was practically new and the other had been struck by lightning and died a few weeks later. When I got a chance to talk to him he didn't know the model of either so I was assuming it would be something like my dad's SX-6 as in 80s gear. We didn't really get to into it, him being without water and my dad having some experience with well maintenance(family business, but my dad was never really involved)

 Turns out I'm now the new owner of a Pioneer SX-780, which is awkward because I ordered a new receiver(Sherwood S-7800) a few days ago. Man these things really do start taking over your house. You say you'll only have one but they're already starting to stack up.  I'll find out tomorrow if it's the unused backup amp or the dead one, but It doesn't sound like the one that was struck by lightning took too much damage. It's most likely just a blown fuse. He said it made popping noises for a bit and now it won't turn on at all.

Assuming I've got the working one I'll do some comparisons when the new Sherwood shows up, A US amp, a Japanese amp, and a US amp made in Japan. Or if you want to go by years, late 60s, early 70s, and mid 70s. Almost makes me wish I had some speakers to try em out with. Won't be a fair comparison with my old Sherwood failing, and the uncertain condition of the Pioneer but I'll mostly be comparing them for the fun of it, no clue what I'll be doing with the Pioneer at this stage.


----------



## dogwan

Jumping back a couple pages....not sure who to quote re: using electrostatics w/ energizers, but I'll weigh in.
   
  I'm running a recently acquired pair of Koss ESP/9's with the E9 energizer. Coming off my re-capped Hitachi IA-1000 they sound very good.
   
  Still have some modding to do the cans, but have already cleaned out the old foam and restored the driver boards in the cups.


----------



## calipilot227

Listening to my Sennheiser HD580s out of the Pioneer SA-6500's headphone jack...*wow*. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It really blows my Little Dot MKIII out of the water. I'm seriously considering selling it.
   
  The sad thing is the Little Dot set me back $260. The Pioneer integrated cost me $35. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I'd known about vintage receivers earlier, haha


----------



## wualta

There's no substitute for cubic inches, whether it's torque for car engines or "headroom" power for headphones, even if on paper it looks like sheer overkill. Somehow it comes in handy.


----------



## Skylab

wualta said:


> There's no substitute for cubic inches, whether it's torque for car engines or "headroom" power for headphones, even if on paper it looks like sheer overkill. Somehow it comes in handy.




Truer words were never spoken.


----------



## xLeira

Hey, Ive stumbled upon these Marantz MR215 which I found in my father's closet. Are these good? Im still on a learning mode and I still dont have enough knowledge to understand the specs. Im currently using this as my headphone amp and it is pretty good, it powered my headphones up nicely. Someone from my country wants to trade these to a Pioneer VSX D510-S.
   
  Here is the specs for the vintage Marantz MR215:
http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/334/1597.html?begin=11
   
  The Pioneer VSX D510-S:
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/5369766/Pioneer+VSX+D510+Audio
   
  I just want to hear your opinions on these, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.


----------



## WiR3D

Crap I'm falling in love with vintage gear.... the only problem being I'm pretty much spending $200 on shipping If I do buy anything from the US, and then I need a transformer


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Crap I'm falling in love with vintage gear.... the only problem being I'm pretty much spending $200 on shipping If I do buy anything from the US, and then I need a transformer


 
   
  Depends. My SX-1980 runs straight from a switchable socket. I would recommend buying 1000va step down transformers. Just because you can run two amps at the same time from the same transformer. SA runs at 220/230 I believe?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Crap I'm falling in love with vintage gear....


 
  Not ignoring the frustration of the shipping obstacle and the mains-voltage obstacle, but this phrase suggested to my diseased mind the lyrics to a [failed] Broadway musical about audiophile addiction. "Craaaaaaap!.... I'm faaaal-ling in love with vinnnn-tage geeeeeear.. Oh nooooo....Not a-gaaaaainnnnn.."
   
  Sorry. As you were.


----------



## Skylab

Also, if you look around, you will see vintage gear being sold in the US that has line voltage switching capabilities and will run at all common voltages.  Example:  http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/pio/SX9930.html


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Crap I'm falling in love with vintage gear.... the only problem being I'm pretty much spending $200 on shipping If I do buy anything from the US, and then I need a transformer


 
   
  We live in the *wrong hemisphere* for audio, but I would have thought that the UK would be a better source for South Africans ? Not sure about Europe - anyone ?
   
  (I get a little warm under the collar when someone bitches that there are no 'hi-fi stores' in their corner of Pennsylvania, having personally endured over 7 hours on a plane to check out audio in Singapore. Dont even get me started on how blindingly fast delivery is for CONUS customers over the rest of us .....)


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





xleira said:


> Hey, Ive stumbled upon these Marantz MR215 which I found in my father's closet. Are these good? Im still on a learning mode and I still dont have enough knowledge to understand the specs. Im currently using this as my headphone amp and it is pretty good, it powered my headphones up nicely. Someone from my country wants to trade these to a Pioneer VSX D510-S.
> 
> Here is the specs for the vintage Marantz MR215:
> http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/334/1597.html?begin=11
> ...


 

 if it were *me* I'd keep the Marantz, if not simply for the classiness of it. Where will you ever find another Marantz like that again? The other thing looks like a K-mart VCR and has no tactile dials, looks like plastic, too many options and little digital junk. The internal components are important too. Good luck fixing that one.   But that's just my opinion. Maybe it's good. It does have more power, but the sound and will it last as long as the Marantz ( it sure won't retain it's value the same ) who knows.


----------



## xLeira

Quote: 





nick n said:


> if it were *me* I'd keep the Marantz, if not simply for the classiness of it. Where will you ever find another Marantz like that again? The other thing looks like a K-mart VCR and has no tactile dials, looks like plastic, too many options and little digital junk. The internal components are important too. Good luck fixing that one.   But that's just my opinion. Maybe it's good. It does have more power, but the sound and will it last as long as the Marantz ( it sure won't retain it's value the same ) who knows.


 
   
  Yeah I think I'll keep the Marantz. I don't really have problems with it and is actually performing surprisingly good. I guess I just needed someone to punch my face and tell me to keep the vintage Marantz. I thank you for that.


----------



## Rawrbington

my 2270 is gonna be with a scope this next week.
  how can i measure the output impedance of the HP jack?


----------



## WiR3D

@wualta LOL, no further comment
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> We live in the *wrong hemisphere* for audio, but I would have thought that the UK would be a better source for South Africans ? Not sure about Europe - anyone ?
> 
> (I get a little warm under the collar when someone bitches that there are no 'hi-fi stores' in their corner of Pennsylvania, having personally endured over 7 hours on a plane to check out audio in Singapore. Dont even get me started on how blindingly fast delivery is for CONUS customers over the rest of us .....)


 
  Don't I know it, Ironically we hate each other when it comes to sport, but our cultures and apparently our audio scene is 90% the same.... I do check out the UK, shipping is significantly cheaper, but the prices are more expensive, and its more difficult to find. Any body have any good UK sources they are willing to splurge?
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Also, if you look around, you will see vintage gear being sold in the US that has line voltage switching capabilities and will run at all common voltages.  Example:  http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/pio/SX9930.html


 
  I'm still very very new to the scene, all I really know is, the following are good:

 Sansui 9090
 Marantz 22xx
 Pioneer SX-780, SX-1010, SX-1250.
 and only certain kenwoods (have no idea which)
 Harmon Kordon 330B or 330C
 Yamaha natural Sound
   
  Ands thats the limit of my knowledge.  Would you recommend the SX9930? say over a refurb SX-780
   
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> Depends. My SX-1980 runs straight from a switchable socket. I would recommend buying 1000va step down transformers. Just because you can run two amps at the same time from the same transformer. SA runs at 220/230 I believe?


 
  You are correct, thank you for the sugfgestion


----------



## estreeter

I don't hate anyone based on the 'religion' known as Rugby - I'm a Rugby League fan and rarely even notice what is going on in the larger world of RU. Of course, over 50% of the regulars here wouldn't know the difference, but to you and I its effectively two different sports. For many years in Oz, it was a class thing - Rugby was the province of  private schools and toffee-nosed kids called 'Nigel'. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Getting back to the receivers (!), I'm assuming you saw the list of links I posted a few pages back ? There are some dynamite resources out there - some truly obsessive types who have saved every brochure/service manual they could lay hands on in the 70s and 80s. I dont even have my priceless collection of naked lady magazines from back then - gotta admire hoarders who know WHAT to hoard.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> my 2270 is gonna be with a scope this next week.
> how can i measure the output impedance of the HP jack?


 

 A simple methode would be if you measure the voltage lets say over a 1kHz test tone without a load and then the voltage over a load, e.g. a suitable resistor.
   
  Then your impedance equals the load resistor times ((U_without_load/U_load)-1)
   
  Have fun
   
  Philipp


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I don't hate anyone based on the 'religion' known as Rugby - I'm a Rugby League fan and rarely even notice what is going on in the larger world of RU. Of course, over 50% of the regulars here wouldn't know the difference, but to you and I its effectively two different sports. For many years in Oz, it was a class thing - Rugby was the province of  private schools and toffee-nosed kids called 'Nigel'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  nope? I looked 4 pages back and didn't see anything? and odd pages throughout the thread


----------



## estreeter

Aaah - yep, this thread is a freight train - you either leap aboard as it careers through your town or you end up *under* the behemoth ..... 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/5115#post_8443876
   
  If I had a life, there is no way I would have been able to find that needle in this haystack.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Aaah - yep, this thread is a freight train - you either leap aboard as it careers through your town or you end up *under* the behemoth .....
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/5115#post_8443876
> 
> If I had a life, there is no way I would have been able to find that needle in this haystack.


 
  Thanks for that


----------



## WiR3D

4 hours left for those lucky people in the states
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-Stereo-Amplifier-Reciever-SX-1050-Excellent-/110897031088?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d1fa67b0#ht_1028wt_1396


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> 4 hours left for those lucky people in the states
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-Stereo-Amplifier-Reciever-SX-1050-Excellent-/110897031088?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19d1fa67b0#ht_1028wt_1396


 

 Oh man! Why did you have to point that out?
   
  That would be an easy summer days drive for me and my dog to go get it.
   
  MUST RESIST!
  MUST SAVE MONEY FOR TUITION!
  [repeat]


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> A simple methode would be if you measure the voltage lets say over a 1kHz test tone without a load and then the voltage over a load, e.g. a suitable resistor.
> 
> Then your impedance equals the load resistor times ((U_without_load/U_load)-1)
> 
> ...


 
  thanks Phillipp
   
  what exactly would be the test points?
  and what size resistor?
   
  i bet my friend will have an idea how to measure the load vs unloaded voltagees.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> Oh man! Why did you have to point that out?
> 
> That would be an easy summer days drive for me and my dog to go get it.
> 
> ...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> Oh man! Why did you have to point that out?
> 
> That would be an easy summer days drive for me and my dog to go get it.
> 
> ...


 
  Becasue If I can't have it, atleast someone here can have it, and I can drool at the pics....


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thanks Phillipp
> 
> what exactly would be the test points?
> and what size resistor?
> ...


 

 The test points would be the ground and either the left or right connection. Take a headphone plug without headphones  and solder some cables. Then you can easy measure the voltage.
   
  Concerning the resistor, a resistor around 1KOhm. If it is too small, you can damage your system  because the output is loaded to much. Otherwise if the resistor has a great value the voltage change is too small. 1K would be fine.
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Becasue If I can't have it, atleast someone here can have it, and I can drool at the pics....


 

 It's ok, I managed to distract myself well past the auction's end!


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> The test points would be the ground and either the left or right connection. Take a headphone plug without headphones  and solder some cables. Then you can easy measure the voltage.
> 
> Concerning the resistor, a resistor around 1KOhm. If it is too small, you can damage your system  because the output is loaded to much. Otherwise if the resistor has a great value the voltage change is too small. 1K would be fine.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This measurement is a really simple one, because in reality the headphone has a complex impedance and here you only measure with a resistor as the load.


----------



## BGRoberts

SX-1250 is in the house!
   
  Arrived last night, and she's a beauty!
  I was pretty happy with the QX-949 I was using before, but this is a HUGE step up!
  I've got it hooked up to some Snell CII's & Pioneer HPM100's and I just can't get enough!


----------



## Skylab

NICE!!!! Post some pics


----------



## Hibuckhobby

Getting pumped!  Meeting Skylab today and picking up this beauty.  (SX-1250)


----------



## Skylab

And she really is a beauty.  I miss her already, and she hasn't even left me yet!  See you in a few hours


----------



## WiR3D

and there was that SX-1250 that was on auction yesterday  I hate you guys....
   
  "I just can't get enough" (yeah I just had Black eyed peas run through my head, and they won't leave.)
   
  Skylab that SX-1250 is really beautiful, absolutely gorgeous.
   
  Edit: the next Vintage Receiver of yours that goes up for sale is mine.


----------



## Skylab

I am selling one of my three (!) SX-1980's, but ain't no way I am shipping that 90 pound monster to South Africa...sorry...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I am selling one of my three (!) SX-1980's, but ain't no way I am shipping that 90 pound monster to South Africa...sorry...


 
  No way would I be able to afford that. the shipping will be $500 I'm willing to bet.
   
  Is a perfect condition Marantz 2245 worth $250? ($325 including shipping to ZA) 
  Or should I still try find a Pioneer SX-780, SX-880, or SX-980? (which will all probably be more expensive and not in such condition)
   
  pairing with a turntable, and a HD650


----------



## Skylab

$250 seems to be the going rate for a 2245, and so I would say that's a fair price.  The Marantz will be a little warmer than those Pioneers you mention, but I like the Marantz 22xx series receivers very much - I love my 2285.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





skylab said:


> $250 seems to be the going rate for a 2245, and so I would say that's a fair price.  The Marantz will be a little warmer than those Pioneers you mention, but I like the Marantz 22xx series receivers very much - I love my 2285.


 
  the shipping is attractive, $75 from Canada to SA? I could do that, only thing is its 120V. So time for a Transformer. 
   
  Unless something else pops up in 6 days, or this disappears by then... which I hope not.


----------



## WiR3D

So I am going to ask some stupid questions,
   
  for Marantz its *series:model* eg 2245 (22 is the series, 45 is the model, byt that logic it makes the 85 the TOTL or thereabouts?)
  for Pioneer its *model:series* eg 780 (80 is the series, 7 is the model, 19 being the TOTL)
   
  there are other naming schemes I don't get, Pioneer SA-,  Sansui (I know the 9090 is the TOTL)
   
  obviously there were different products released in different areas but how do some of the product number correlate?
   
  sorry for the noobish questions, just trying to learn, the info is not exactly grouped or basic knowledge for my generation


----------



## Skylab

For Pioneer, "SA" = integrated amp; "SX" = receiver.  Indeed, "80" is a receiver series, ranging (I believe) from the 580 - 1980, with the numbers being essentially just a step function and not really correlating to anything.
   
  Marantz is a little tougher, as the "2" I believe indicated stereo receiver, but then things get murkier...the last two digits generally indicate the wattage; the 2245 is 45 wpc, and the 2285 is 85 wpc.  But the 2325 is the same series, 125 wpc...kind of confusing.  And the earlier series was all ending in zero, still corresponding to the wattage.  Then after the 22x5 series, they added a "B" to them...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For Pioneer, "SA" = integrated amp; "SX" = receiver.  Indeed, "80" is a receiver series, ranging (I believe) from the 580 - 1980, with the numbers being essentially just a step function and not really correlating to anything.
> 
> Marantz is a little tougher, as the "2" I believe indicated stereo receiver, but then things get murkier...the last two digits generally indicate the wattage; the 2245 is 45 wpc, and the 2285 is 85 wpc.  But the 2325 is the same series, 125 wpc...kind of confusing.  And the earlier series was all ending in zero, still corresponding to the wattage.  Then after the 22x5 series, they added a "B" to them...


 
  Thanks ,
  Arg... Pioneer make it easy. 
   
  Just ran across a Sansui 6060 and a "rare" Sansui 9900 (not 9090) on ebay. thought its worth mentioning.
   
  edit: sooo many questions.... but I will keep them to myself, and do some reading


----------



## Lazwarth

I have a Marantz Sr-53 Stereo receiver from the 90`s I think.
   
  It works fine and is the only amp I have ever listened to.


----------



## BGRoberts

The new jewel in my collection


----------



## Skylab

Very nice!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> The new jewel in my collection


 
  is that a logitech sqeezebox acting as a source for the SX-1250? uke: need a real DAC up in there


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> is that a logitech sqeezebox acting as a source for the SX-1250? uke: need a real DAC up in there


 
   
  If it's anything like my vintage rig, the turntable is likely the primary source


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> If it's anything like my vintage rig, the turntable is likely the primary source


 
  I don't doubt that, but still.... shudder


----------



## Elysian

I'm looking to pick up either a McIntosh 4100 or Marantz 2325 to drive a HE-6.  I read some positive feedback on the 2325, but couldn't find anything on the 4100/HE-6 pairing.  There were some comments several years old that were moderately positive about the 4100 for headphone use, but the 2325 and 2270/2285 comments seem a lot more enthusiastic.  Based on enthusiasm factor alone, the 2325 seems the safer pick.
   
  Any suggestions on the right direction to go?  Pricing is about the same for both, and I believe both are refurbished.  Thanks!


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> is that a logitech sqeezebox acting as a source for the SX-1250? uke: need a real DAC up in there


 
   
  Yeah, I'm looking at DACs now.  But I find the Squeezebox is not bad as is, and is SO convenient.  I've listened to at least twice as much music since I've had it (about 2-3 weeks).
   
  And yes, the turntable is the primary source.




  BG


----------



## Skylab

I've never heard that MAC, but it doesn't have a great rep over on AudioKarma. I'd probably agree that you are better off sticking with Marantz, given you said the pricing is similar.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> Yeah, I'm looking at DACs now.  But I find the Squeezebox is not bad as is, and is SO convenient.  I've listened to at least twice as much music since I've had it (about 2-3 weeks).
> 
> And yes, the turntable is the primary source.
> 
> ...


 
  for a transport its epic, I stream everything in my house, mainly to my blu-ray, but none the less. but as a source/DAC, arg...
   
  Talking of DACs the ODAC... I really do wish there was a SPDIF version....


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> for a transport its epic, I stream everything in my house, mainly to my blu-ray, but none the less. but as a source/DAC, arg...
> 
> Talking of DACs the ODAC... I really do wish there was a SPDIF version....


 
   
  My ears are "mature", so it doesn't sound bad to me at this point.
  There's such a HUGE change in sound with addition of the 1250 that I'll have to give it some time to settle in before I start making more changes.
  A stand alone DAC is in the future, I'm sure.
  But for now I'm just savoring the sweet sounds I'm hearing from this rig.
  BG


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> My ears are "mature", so it doesn't sound bad to me at this point.
> There's such a HUGE change in sound with addition of the 1250 that I'll have to give it some time to settle in before I start making more changes.
> A stand alone DAC is in the future, I'm sure.
> But for now I'm just savoring the sweet sounds I'm hearing from this rig.
> BG


 
  I hear you loud and clear. Enjoy each step up, thats the fun part. not getting the end all mother of stax rigs, but getting those steps up where you rediscover your music, and jsut when you think its as good as it gets, getting another step up.


----------



## monoethylene

Solala in a few days my Marantz 2325 will arrive   as well as a pair of Spendors BC1
   
  Then I have finished hopefully..
   
  Have fun
   
  Philipp


----------



## Elysian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've never heard that MAC, but it doesn't have a great rep over on AudioKarma. I'd probably agree that you are better off sticking with Marantz, given you said the pricing is similar.


 
   
  Thanks for the suggestion.  I discovered the same feedback; a fair amount of people said the MAC didn't really impress them, but there is a lot of love for the 2325 and 2270/2285.  Some people also mention the higher-end Pioneers and Sansui, but I found your earlier posts suggesting that the Marantz has better synergy with the HE-6.
   
  That SX-1980 of yours is a really beautiful piece of kit.  How does it work with the HE-6?  You'd still recommend the Marantz over the 1980?


----------



## Skylab

No, I would recommend the SX-1980 over any receiver I have ever heard. But that's just me personally. I think it's special, in many respects.


----------



## wualta

Very special indeed in its ability to load a non-moving-coil phono cartridge properly, something I confess I didn't appreciate back in the day but which turns out to be crucial.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Very special indeed in its ability to properly load a non-moving-coil phono cartridge properly, something I confess I didn't appreciate back in the day but which turns out to be crucial.


 
   
  Yup, that is a big one.  Dual-stage tone controls is another.  Terrific FM tuner is another.  And then, of course, there is the massive power reserves


----------



## palmfish

The Squeezebox built-in DAC tested very well with Stereophile and sounds excellent to me.
   
  I tried to do better with a DacMagic and Peachtree Nova and neither could top the Squeezebox's RCA outs. The DacMagic and Nova are gone and the Squeezebox is flying solo with no regrets.


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> No, I would recommend the SX-1980 over any receiver I have ever heard. But that's just me personally. I think it's special, in many respects.


 

 Don't say that!  I want my sx-1250 to be the last receiver I'll ever want!
  *LOL*


----------



## Skylab

The SX-1250 is terrific - no doubt about it.


----------



## Elysian

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> Don't say that!  I want my sx-1250 to be the last receiver I'll ever want!
> *LOL*


 
   
  That exact indecision syndrome is making it really hard to make a decision 
   
  Maybe I'll just get a modern integrated SS instead :/  And I thought headphone amps were sometimes challenging to find to demo...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





elysian said:


> That exact indecision syndrome is making it really hard to make a decision
> 
> Maybe I'll just get a modern integrated SS instead :/  And I thought headphone amps were sometimes challenging to find to demo...


 
  Try living in the southern hemisphere


----------



## jjacq

Sorry I got confused lol.


  So I got this Marantz amp for cheap($40) but the sound is really low at max volume. Can anyone tell me what this may be because? I bought it with the seller describing the volume needle(right volume needle) broken but he says it's not supposed to affect the sound coming from it. Can anyone tell me what it may be?

 Here's a pic of the baby btw:


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Sorry I got confused lol.
> 
> 
> So I got this Marantz amp for cheap($40) but the sound is really low at max volume. Can anyone tell me what this may be because? I bought it with the seller describing the volume needle(right volume needle) broken but he says it's not supposed to affect the sound coming from it. Can anyone tell me what it may be?


 
   
  Did you pushed the tape monitor button or knob? If you position all function selectors correct and it still sounds low, you need de-oxit. If de-oxit doesn't work, you should ask technician for help!
   
  Sorry, it's vintage, you take some risk to buy them!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Sorry I got confused lol.
> 
> 
> So I got this Marantz amp for cheap($40) but the sound is really low at max volume. Can anyone tell me what this may be because? I bought it with the seller describing the volume needle(right volume needle) broken but he says it's not supposed to affect the sound coming from it. Can anyone tell me what it may be?
> ...


 
   
  As Meewoo rightfully suggested, check your Tape selector. It is really difficult for me to see from the pix, but it looks like you may have both Tape 1 & Tape 2 selected. Unless, of course, you're using Aux while Tape 1 is selected.
   
  However you're using it, it seems like it is simply a matter of a selector chosen though you're trying to hear another part of the amp. Same result happens (low output @ Max volume) when the correct Input/Output for a component is mixed up. I'd try to re-select the things I want to hear...let's see what happens, Jjacq.


----------



## Skylab

This also sounds silly, but it doesn't look like either speaker selector button is engaged. I assume that either you did, or were using headphones? And did you or are you able to try both speakers and headphones? 

I'm thinking it likely is as Meewoo suggested - it probably needs the switched and controls treated with deoxit.


----------



## audiosceptic

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> The Squeezebox built-in DAC tested very well with Stereophile and sounds excellent to me.
> 
> I tried to do better with a DacMagic and Peachtree Nova and neither could top the Squeezebox's RCA outs. The DacMagic and Nova are gone and the Squeezebox is flying solo with no regrets.


 
   
  Same here. I have the Squeezebox Touch direct into a rebuilt Pioneer A-27 driving a pair of HE-6 and Sound Lab speakers. Really can't tell the difference between the Touch connected directly or coax to a Audio Research DAC7 I own.


----------



## palmfish

I don't think I've posted pictures of my current 2-channel setup.
   
  Squeezebox Touch into the Carver Receiver. Also pictured are my Denon DR-M44, Pioneer DV-578A, Pioneer PL-707, and of course my Denon AH-D7000's.


----------



## jjacq

Quote: 





silent one said:


> As Meewoo rightfully suggested, check your Tape selector. It is really difficult for me to see from the pix, but it looks like you may have both Tape 1 & Tape 2 selected. Unless, of course, you're using Aux while Tape 1 is selected.
> 
> However you're using it, it seems like it is simply a matter of a selector chosen though you're trying to hear another part of the amp. Same result happens (low output @ Max volume) when the correct Input/Output for a component is mixed up. I'd try to re-select the things I want to hear...let's see what happens, Jjacq.


 
   
 Well wow haha I pressed the tape selector and I could hear it !!! Actually I also found out that the knob was misplaced so I had to pull it out and put it properly and now it works. Funny thing is it still plays even when I turn the device off. The only thing I'm complaining about is the Bass knob giving me crackle whenever I turn it. This happens with the Volume knob as well but not for the other ones.  Thanks a lot for the information though.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





palmfish said:


>


 
   
  Now that's what I call a headphone stand! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Well wow haha I pressed the tape selector and I could hear it !!! Actually I also found out that the knob was misplaced so I had to pull it out and put it properly and now it works. Funny thing is it still plays even when I turn the device off. *The only thing I'm complaining about is the Bass knob giving me crackle whenever I turn it. This happens with the Volume knob as well but not for the other ones.*  Thanks a lot for the information though.


 
   
  Deoxit!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





jjacq said:


> Well wow haha I pressed the tape selector and I could hear it !!! Actually I also found out that the knob was misplaced so I had to pull it out and put it properly and now it works. Funny thing is it still plays even when I turn the device off. The only thing I'm complaining about is the Bass knob giving me crackle whenever I turn it. This happens with the Volume knob as well but not for the other ones.  Thanks a lot for the information though.


 
   
  There's often bleed between inputs, especially in the low and midrange models (of receivers generally, not Marantz specifically). It's not usually worth worrying about unless the bleed is really obnoxious or you can't confine the problem to an input you aren't using.
   
  Noisy dials and switches need a cleaning. You can try this yourself -- sometimes sweeping the volume or bass knob across their entire rotation a few times is all you need, but it's more likely you'll have to go in with some contact cleaner (which is expensive, but not extortionately so) to help blow out the crud and restore the contact surfaces. Whether you do one, the other or both, make sure the receiver is off and unplugged first!


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> <snip> Whether you do one, the other or both, make sure the receiver is off and unplugged first!


----------



## WiR3D

MMm. I am a bit caught at the moment with what to get my father (for Music hall MMF 5.1 turntable + HD650)
   
  Either (including shipping):

 Marantz 2245, in excellent condition :$350
 Yamaha CX830 natural sound preamp : $500
 Pioneer SX-780, good condition: $350 (needs voltage transformer)
 Pioneer SX-850, great condition: $500 (needs voltage transformer, which puts it on the borderline too much)
 Pioneer SX-980, ok condition, $750 (which is more then I would like to spend)
   
  Arg, this is not easy....


----------



## Skylab

If the 2245 does not need a voltage transformer, then I suggest that.


----------



## palmfish

Those prices seem really high.


----------



## Skylab

For the US, yes they are. You can get an SX-980 for $300 or less, easy, in meat mint (but unrestored) condition.


----------



## palmfish

Ah, didn't notice his location.


----------



## nick n

Any of you tried RCA Attenuators on the old stuff. Curious about those. I'm really happy with the crossfeed cables, this seems like another interesting idea.
   I don't know how much of a difference really it would make though it would simply be after the DAC and before the Aux on the Nikko receiver.
  Probably unecessary as I don't think that Dac output is high gain, I'd have to check.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Those prices seem really high.


 
  it is, but the shipping is 70% of the cost in some cases. And to ship a SX-980 is ridiculously expensive. I have no choice unfortunately.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> If the 2245 does not need a voltage transformer, then I suggest that.


 
  Ah crap... it does need one aswell....


----------



## ardgedee

For the purpose of cleaning up old receivers, is DeoxIT in a spray or needle applicator going to be better? It seems to me the needle applicator might have some advantage (no overspray == less waste), but might be harder to get into the working bits of various pots.


----------



## wualta

As in all things HF and AK, get both. There will be times when each is the right tool for the job.


----------



## ardgedee

I spent a couple hours today doing a superficial cleaning of the Heathkit RA-1500.
   
  (for backstory, read this post. tl;dr version: My dad had one of these. This particular one was abandoned, I was given permission to take it home, and it works really well when it works.)
   
 
   
  I had to photograph the front panel because of those sticky-note labels: The original button labels had gone away a long time ago, so these were the only convenient notes I had on what switched what. Thankfully, the button switches work really well, something that wasn't true of my dad's old receiver.
   
  
   
  Real wood case on three sides. Impressively sturdy, especially by modern standards. Shame about that divot on the left side, but being tossed in a dumpster and having other hardware dumped on top can do that sort of thing.
   
   
   
  The metal cabinet is also pretty sturdy. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the cabinet, or even the baseplate alone, accounts for at least half the total mass. And this thing is heavy; I haven't put it on a scale, but I'm guessing it's easily over 25 lb. The upper black steel panel screws down at about ten points, to similar-looking metal side panels that screw down at a dozen more points apiece. The lower panel is solid 1/8" steel; the interior equipment is mounted to spacers somewhere around 3/8" tall, so thankfully that dent in the perf near the rear left foot doesn't affect anything besides appearances. If you look carefully, you can see how thick the metal is in that shot...
   
  The diagonal row of holes in the baseplate are for accessing trimpots. There are a few more inside.
   

   
  A couple service tags and some glue residue from a third. This had traveled between the eastern end of Michigan and Benton Harbor, at the western end of Michigan, a few times.
   

  The glorious innards. I went no further than this; I didn't feel confident taking things apart for real without having service manuals handy. It is still going to need a good, detailed cleaning inside, but this was actually as far as I had to go to access everything I wanted to spray Deoxit into...
   

  ...because even though I couldn't figure out how to get the knobs off, it turns out the pots are really easy to reach, and even have conveniently-located holes just the right size for a spray tube. Well, actually, since they're dual-mono pots, one was easy to spray, the other was hard. It worked out okay, though.
   

  Another service tag. For a product made in America, this was a pretty well-traveled device.
   
 
   
  The tuner mechanism is impressively elaborate: A taut cord runs in a loop through a capstan on the tuner knob, around a large disk (with an indexing wheel that stops it at its extreme points), and over the top of all the board interfaces to the front panel, spanning the width of the cabinet. Between the tuner knob and capastan is a massive, massive flywheel, so even though the tuner knob is relatively small, it's very easy to turn and fiddle with when trying to lock on a station. It's a shame the tuner doesn't work that well, albeit better than my dad's did. The metal arm that held the AM antenna is the saddest casualty. Now it's just a kind of annoying dongle that gets in the way.
   
  All the lightbulbs present work, which is nice; one socket's empty, so I pulled a companion bulb to bring to the hardware store as a sample to find replacements with.
   
  I'd love to, at some point, replace the power cord and phono sockets. The former because it's pretty ragged and worn, the latter because they're just kind of janky, even if the ceramic insulations are all in good shape. If I could keep the very nice perfed circuit board they're mounted to, and replace them each for each with modern-day sockets, I'd be happy. All in due time, I guess; they're working a little better now thanks to the Deoxit, but I'd rather have a more permanent fix than occasional blasts of contact cleaner.
   
  I couldn't clean much -- partly because of a shortage of time, partly because I realized I'd be in over my head without a map. At this point, the most critical problem is the volume knob; the left-right imbalance is ridiculous at low volumes. Some shots of contact cleaner have helped (and has totally fixed some of the channel loss and glitchiness in the volume and balance knobs), but it's clear now that the low-volume imbalance is inherent to the hardware. I have no idea if good-quality pots to replace it with are even available, though -- again, I'll have to get a copy of the assembly/service manual to see what goes in there.


----------



## Skylab

Wow! Nice effort


----------



## palmfish

Great photos! It actually looks pretty clean to me. Nice find..


----------



## ardgedee

Heh. Not that clean, really. You're only seeing the relatively flattering shots. 

it was in a smoker's household for some time since its last service trip to Heathkit. I took care to clean out the heat sink fins from both front and back, and it seemed to run a bit cooler as a result last night. I'm thankful that the unit doesn't smell of tobacco at all (seems to be mostly pipe residue, actually), and that I haven't got any sensitivities, but the tobacco residue is everywhere and at some point I want to go in and clean every board out individually. A lot of them are socketed, but some of them aren't (or are socketed but appear to have leads soldered to other points in the receiver as well) so, again, it's going to have to wait until I can get instructions and a good chunk of free time for the job.


----------



## WiR3D

A list of all the vintage Pioneer gear, and there siblings with other model numbers


----------



## dogwan

Recently picked up an abused Harmon/Kardon 800+ quad receiver from CL for $20. Seller was a nice old gent who was a scrounger and knew very little other than it powered on and was missing fuse caps for 2/4 (right side) of the speaker lines.

 After a few weeks of it sitting just inside the front door I finally got around to checking it out and couldn't get any power. Upon opening it up I found that someone had done some serious hacking. One of the transformers (I picked this up because of the twin power supply) has been clipped. The main power fuse holder was broken and electrical taped back together. The leads to the fuse holder were broken and twisted back on without solder. Oy vey!
   
  The reason I grabbed this is because aside from all the extra quad circuitry there is a dedicated switch to keep it in 2 channel mode at 55w/ch with the twin power supply.
   
  This weekend I went in and DeOxit'd all controls, downloaded the service manual, and replaced the busted PS fuse holder.

 After rewiring the clipped transformer I slowly brought it up on a Variac while constantly checking the voltages on the transformer secondaries and comparing the two transformers. I kept a very close eye on the one that had the primary leads clipped. Got all the way up to full line voltage with no abnormalities.

 Next I checked and adjusted the DC offset. Then I plugged an Ipod into the aux. and then plugged in a pair of beater headphones ..... AND got glorious sound!

 Then I ran it using headphones only in ever increasing lengths of time with cool down periods. The next day when I was confident everything was stable I hooked it up to some speakers and ......NO sound!

 Well, here's where it gets interesting. On Saturday I stumbled across an HK 100+ receiver on CL for $25 which I picked up thinking I could use it for spare parts if needed. After getting frustrated not being able to figure out why the 800+ would output sound on the headphones, but not speakers I set it aside and played with the 100+.

 It was only while playing with the 100+ did I come to find out that even when switched into 2-channel "stereo" mode it still needed fuses in both the front and back speakers for the front speakers to work. I speculate that the fuses are in series before the 4 amp sections are summed into 2 channels.

 Now the frustrating part is that the 800+ is missing 1 fuse cap and they used different fuse holders from the 100 to the 800 series amps. So now I am one lousy fuse screw on cap away from a full test! AND it's a metric size!

 Until I can find the silly cap it looks like I will be putting the 100+ on the bench. It should be fun comparing the sound signature of the two receivers when I get them both up and running.

 Any ideas where I can find the fuse cap?
   
  So far the sound on both these units with headphones is pretty darn good. But they are HUGE and 35 lbs each!
   
  -Dogwan


----------



## Maverickmonk

Great finds at <$30 a piece! It's also pretty great when the problems turn out to be just a clipped wire, eh?
   
  This weekend I need to sit down and spend some quality time with my SX-780. Turns out someone hack-shorted the relay transistor to permanently bypass the protection circuit. I'm hoping I can just replace that transistor and have it all be okay, but I have a sinking feeling the problem won't end there, and there's going to be a couple more pieces to replace on this thing before it's up and running. What's funny is then it may end up being sold, since now I sold my Sextetts and don't need to drag a beast of an amp to school with me! It may end up being the living-room stereo then, which I don't really mind.
   
   
  How many noise violations can I get in a college town with a 45wpc receiver and a pair of 80's Fischer speakers with 15" woofers?


----------



## EndersShadow

So I am hoping for some advice here.
   
  Right now I am using my Dad's old Yamaha R-300 with headphones at work.  I am debating purchasing a Onkyo A-7022 to use instead.
   
  Does anyone here have any experience with this reciever?  Its listed for ~85 bucks but I think I can probably talk the guy down a little bit.  It looks to be in mint condition.
   
  I will be using this ONLY to drive headphones for right now. 
   
  I will be using either Beyerdynamic DT-700 80ohms or Ultrasone HFI-780's with it.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## EndersShadow

Quote: 





endersshadow said:


> So I am hoping for some advice here.
> 
> Right now I am using my Dad's old Yamaha R-300 with headphones at work.  I am debating purchasing a Onkyo A-7022 to use instead.
> 
> ...


 
  Anyone?


----------



## monoethylene

My 2325 has arrived and the Eight Deluxe is in the line as well as the Celestion Ditton 662


----------



## Skylab

Enders, you have to realize there were a LOT of models of vintage receivers made over the years. The ones that are well known are the ones that have remained popular over time, and tend to be either the TOTL, or at least part of a line that was highly regarded. 

Your best bet is to search AudioKarma. I did a quick search which would seem to indicate if you could get the Onkyo for $75 that would be a decent deal.


----------



## EndersShadow

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Enders, you have to realize there were a LOT of models of vintage receivers made over the years. The ones that are well known are the ones that have remained popular over time, and tend to be either the TOTL, or at least part of a line that was highly regarded.
> Your best bet is to search AudioKarma. I did a quick search which would seem to indicate if you could get the Onkyo for $75 that would be a decent deal.


 
   
  I do realize that, just figured there might be an owner here with experiences that hadn't posted them here.
   
  I see lots of folks using Marantz, Kenwood & Yamaha (I myself am using a R-300), but didnt see any mention of Onkyo.
   
  Didnt know if that was because they are rare and sought after, crappy and all junkers, or just not frequently used.
   
  I am going to go ahead and pick it up for 85 bucks as it does look like a deal at that price point.  Its got more power than my R-300 (though I only use the headphones right now) and can handle 4 ohm loads so it should work pretty good long term should I want to use it with speakers.  That and it has pre-outs whereas my Yamaha doesnt.
   
  I did do a couple searches on the web for this model, but didnt find a ton of info.


----------



## ardgedee

Onkyo is generally a reputable brand. I'd wager that as long it was taken care of and doesn't need much age-related maintenance, you won't do that badly for the price.

Keep in mind that some vintage gear is really good but doesn't have high collector value because particular electronic components that wear with age (like capacitors and discrete transistors) are obsolete and difficult to find.

Since every manufacturer had their good and bad runs, and that particular model is not a commonly sought-out one, audiokarma will have to be your go-to resource. There is very little vintage equipment that no AK member has first-hand experience with.


----------



## wualta

Buying vintage gear, unless you're buying from your dad (and sometimes even then) is always a bit of a risk. On the other hand, if a piece of gear has been working for 40 years, chances are good that it'll keep working. Why? Natural selection. All the units with weak components have long ago failed and are rusting away in landfills. So it's an adventure, and you'll enjoy it more if you treat it as such, which means budgeting for the occasional failure. If you can't find anything on the Onkyo but it looks good otherwise (not just sufficient power, but good tone control versatility and other evidence of care in the design), AND you won't be financially or emotionally damaged if it blows up next year, why not take the plunge and break some new ground for future HFers and AKers?


----------



## EndersShadow

I am planning on picking it up. It's not local to me but I have a friend in the area looking at it for me and demo'ing it on speakers for me. I trust his judgement. He's going to look at it tomorrow and pick it up for me. I will pick it up from him when I pass that way next Monday.


----------



## WNBC

Was planning on sticking to modern headphone amps but once again the vintage thread drags me in ............... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The headphone out of the Pioneer SX737 is fantastic.  My only other headphone experience with vintage amps was the Sansui AU-717.  In my opinion, the 717 didn't synergize well with the LCD-2.  The 737 on the other hand, drives the HE-500 well, with clarity and focus.    
   
  Would you guys with Pioneer SX series and orthos suggest trying driving the headphones via the speaker outs or stick with the headphone output.  No need to get my cables re-terminated with spades if the headphone and speaker outs are on par.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> <snip>
> 
> Would you guys with Pioneer SX series and orthos suggest trying driving the headphones via the speaker outs or stick with the headphone output.  No need to get my cables re-terminated with spades if the headphone and speaker outs are on par.


 
  I use my HE-6 straight from the headphone out of my SX-1980. I've tried using the speaker outs with the HE-adapter, but I found it overkill and unnecessary.


----------



## Skylab

Totally agree. The headphone out works very well for me.


----------



## WNBC

Thanks, good to know.  
   
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> I use my HE-6 straight from the headphone out of my SX-1980. I've tried using the speaker outs with the HE-adapter, but I found it overkill and unnecessary.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Totally agree. The headphone out works very well for me.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Was planning on sticking to modern headphone amps but once again the vintage thread drags me in ...............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had a sx1010 which is the same series of sx as yours and the headphone out was more than enough. Heck I could drive it fine out of the headphone out even with the -20db button engaged.


----------



## Skylab

I finally got the matching tuner for my Fisher KX-100, a 50-B. and of course, I had to have a matching cabinet made


----------



## BmWr75

Beautiful Rob!!


----------



## Silent One

Oh no! My computer monitor might be goin' out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Usually, I'm able to delight in Skylab's photography - gear in all its detail and glory. Things look a bit veiled this evening...


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, sorry, those were not the best photos, huh? I need to take some with my real camera and not the iPhone...


----------



## Silent One

With Camera-gate out of the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... _it's always nice see gear being released from Chicagoland._


----------



## Maverickmonk

iPhoto's asside, my god Rob. That's...that's beautiful. There are no other words...
   
   
  In other news, I found out just how cheap dynaco ST-70 clone kits are...I'm tempted to risk electrocution, get one, and make a seperate power amp for my Marantz...


----------



## moodyrn

Very nice Skylab. How does it sound? Is the combo with the tube integrated amp to much tube goodness?


----------



## Rawrbington

Holy WOW
  You're killing me Skylab.
  im really jealous.
   
  i had the opportunity to snatch up a Fisher 500B for 400$ and i just couldn't justify the drive without knowing more about the sound.
   
   
  whats the specs on the 50-B?


----------



## Silent One

To be clear, it is indeed beautiful, Skylab.


----------



## mrarroyo

Rob, you now need to borrow one of my K1000 to drive with that combo! I wonder how the SRD7 modified by Birgir would sound in that combo.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks for all the nice comments, guys! Much appreciated.

Moodyrn it sounds great! I have some nice FM stations here, fortunately, and so it is a pleasure to listen to. Yes, it's pretty tubey, but especially for FM this isn't a bother 

Rawr, not sure of the specs. The 50-B is a nice stereo tuner, not the best Fisher even made, but a nice one. I especially like the EM84 "Magic Eye" tube used as a tuning meter, this is what really sold me on getting one - that and the fact that I was able to pick one up locally, in great shape, for a very good deal.


----------



## KevinWolff

I have a Denon AVR-3805 which is not really vintage, but I thought I'd ask the question here. I also have the Peak/Volcano headphone amp which I use for headphones, and right now I just use the Denon for home theater. However the Denon has a pure direct mode, and I was wondering if there was any advantage of using the Peak as a preamp to the Denon and connecting to the Denon headphone out.


----------



## moodyrn

No, I remember that receiver from just a few years ago. The peak sounds much, much better from what that denon has. That's a 2003-04 model isn't it?


----------



## KevinWolff

yes it is. Thanks!


----------



## Trance88

I just picked up a vintage Technics SA-200 off craigslist last week for 5 bucks!! Awesome little amp after drenching the pots in WD-40. It probably had the most oxidized controls I've ever experienced. Great headphone output. Gets plenty loud. I wish I could get specs on the headphone output as well as the speaker output.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





trance88 said:


> I just picked up a vintage Technics SA-200 off craigslist last week for 5 bucks!! Awesome little amp after drenching the pots in WD-40. It probably had the most oxidized controls I've ever experienced. Great headphone output. Gets plenty loud. I wish I could get specs on the headphone output as well as the speaker output.


 
   
  $5!!? Lucky.
   
  A quick Google search came up with these:
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/technics-sa200-p-422.html


----------



## Trance88

oops double post.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





trance88 said:


> I just picked up a vintage Technics SA-200 off craigslist last week for 5 bucks!! Awesome little amp after drenching the pots in WD-40. It probably had the most oxidized controls I've ever experienced. Great headphone output. Gets plenty loud. I wish I could get specs on the headphone output as well as the speaker output.


 
   
  Be careful with the WD-40 on pots, have never heard it be recommended as a pot cleaner.  Get some Deoxit instead.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I would NOT use WD-40 at all. That is not a contact cleaner and WILL leave a residue.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, wd40 can cause significant damage down the road. I would do my best to remove all traces of it and start over with a real contact cleaner. It's best to spend the few extra dollars on deoxit, you can also use the radio shack stuff. It's actually rebranded deoxit for a little less money. But wd40 is always a bad idea. Many have found out the hard way the damage wd40 can do when used as a contact cleaner.


----------



## woody88

hi guys, in a bit of a pickle here, and would like some suggestions. I have recently acquired a Sansui AU-717. seller indicated that it was serviced in 2007 when he bought it from another guy. And after looking under the hood, I do believe the seller, as there are no funky glue issue that have plagued many Sansuis of the past. 
   
  with that being said, even though everything else works fine, such as the amp itself and speaker out. The headphone out is actually giving me the issue. The right channel would come in and out. At first, I had read that you can deoxit directly into the headphone jack, which I have done so. I had also taken the unit apart and and sprayed directly behind the headphone jack, which looks like it's a 2 wire connection. but the sound still does come in and out. it tends to happen more often when it is engaged in -20db switch, which I had sprayed deoxit as well. So now I am puzzled as to where to spray the deoxit to address the issue. if some sansui experts who have had similar issues like mine, can chime in, I would greatly appreciate it. Any feedback would be great. thanks in advance.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





woody88 said:


> hi guys, in a bit of a pickle here, and would like some suggestions. I have recently acquired a Sansui AU-717. seller indicated that it was serviced in 2007 when he bought it from another guy. And after looking under the hood, I do believe the seller, as there are no funky glue issue that have plagued many Sansuis of the past.
> 
> with that being said, even though everything else works fine, such as the amp itself and speaker out. The headphone out is actually giving me the issue. The right channel would come in and out. At first, I had read that you can deoxit directly into the headphone jack, which I have done so. I had also taken the unit apart and and sprayed directly behind the headphone jack, which looks like it's a 2 wire connection. but the sound still does come in and out. it tends to happen more often when it is engaged in -20db switch, which I had sprayed deoxit as well. So now I am puzzled as to where to spray the deoxit to address the issue. if some sansui experts who have had similar issues like mine, can chime in, I would greatly appreciate it. Any feedback would be great. thanks in advance.


 
  Headphone Out should be a 3 wire connection...
   
  On another note.... damn ebay.... that Marantz 2245 will cost me $550 after shipping... arg. Thats not worth it...
  just for reference, would the Pioneers, Sansui, Yamaha headphone outs be suitable for a HD650? I was looking into the marantz becasue of the warmth, I think it will be more musical, as it seems the HD650 needs a tubey/musical amp.
   
  That and should I avoid any of those brands Phono stages?
   
  I'm avoiding model numbers, I have more or less an idea of what is good from all the brands, I will confirm before buying.
   
  I really wish it was as easy to get a good Vintage amp here... Been trying to exploit ebay.co.uk to try cut down on shipping... arg


----------



## WiR3D

SOOOOO
   
  I'm down to 2 new options. 
  A yamaha C-2a preamp including shipping for eur 450, which I think is a good way to go, but I have no idea how its sound will pair with the HD650... gulp...
   
  Either that or I try swing a marantz, but the 2245 will cost me $550.... 
  and a Pioneer SX-880 around the same...
   
   
  EDIT: crap.... the C-2a will need me to get a standalone HP amp.... sigh and the C-80 is not as good.


----------



## Skylab

I personally would go with either the Marantz or the Pioneer. Go with the Pineer if you like things neutral, or the Marantz if you want a little added warmth.


----------



## Argybargy

Mac i7>Fidelia/Itunes>DAC o' the day>Marantz 2230>LCD 2.2 w/ DIY Toxic copper cables
   
  The Marantz was completely recapped; previously it sounded warm and veiled but now its clear and dynamic with great detail and treble extension.
   
  Still to do: replace main wires with SPC, new binding posts and RCA plugs, new mica and thermal paste, and LED fuse lamps.


----------



## Rawrbington

Love it!
  Can't wait to save up for a pair of LCD 2's to run with my marantz
  my 2270 is being recapped at the moment.  my 2245 has only had the power supply redone.  they sounded very similar before the 2270 went off to have work done.  It'll be interesting to A/B them when it comes home


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Love it!


 
   
  +1
   
  Really awesome and cozy looking setup you got there.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Love it!
> Can't wait to save up for a pair of LCD 2's to run with my marantz
> my 2270 is being recapped at the moment.  my 2245 has only had the power supply redone.  they sounded very similar before the 2270 went off to have work done.  It'll be interesting to A/B them when it comes home


 

 From personal experience, the preamp board of the 2245 also has some large capacitors in it, that, in my case at least, were quite leaky. the only board I haven't done are the power amp board, and the tuner. I envy your chance to compare them side by side, the 2270 looks like a beautiful machine, but as heavy as the 2245 is (a solid 15lbs heavier than my similar output pioneer SX-780, I swear), the 2270 must be terrifying!


----------



## Argybargy

Thanks. 

I love the warm sound of vintage Marantz and HK.

It was fun recapping the 2230- plenty of room to maneuver and only a few wires to snip to get under the pcb.


----------



## RexAeterna

i haven't posted here for a while. i know i'm happy with my current h/k 700 series set(h/k 770 dual mono power amp and h/k 725 preamp) but i decided to check local thrift anyways not too long ago and i came across a kenwood c2 basic preamp. i heard of them in the past being very well sought after preamps so i said waht the heck, for 65 bucks why not? i needed a spare preamp for my m-45 power amp anyways.

it was bit dusty but all knobs and buttons are perfect working order. had it for while now and say i really like this little preamp. it's a pretty transparent sounding preamp and disappears acting like nothing but a gain for the power amp. still doesn't sound as clean as the h/k725 when i tested with my h/k 770 dual-mono power amp but overall it was kinda hard to tell the difference. thing i love with the kenwood is it's really darn quiet. really great phono section when i tested some vinyl.

thing i did not expect this sucker makes a pretty badass headamp. i tested my df's via 4-pin xlr to 1/4'' adapter for a quick run and i was shock how quiet and clean it sounded. i was like ''What is this?'' lol. i thought the headphone level was annoying at first but i find it wonderful. it's like tuning power amp's input levels to the preamps gain for best possible s/n ratio while leaving enough headroom there for dynamic transients to prevent any clipping. you know what i mean if ever used a power amp with left and right level inputs. headphone out dead quiet too. this makes pretty awesome headamp if wanted it to but i won't be using it's headphone out much since i always drive my headphones from speaker outputs.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> i haven't posted here for a while. i know i'm happy with my current h/k 700 series set(h/k 770 dual mono power amp and h/k 725 preamp) but i decided to check local thrift anyways not too long ago and i came across a kenwood c2 basic preamp. i heard of them in the past being very well sought after preamps so i said waht the heck, for 65 bucks why not? i needed a spare preamp for my m-45 power amp anyways.
> it was bit dusty but all knobs and buttons are perfect working order. had it for while now and say i really like this little preamp. it's a pretty transparent sounding preamp and disappears acting like nothing but a gain for the power amp. still doesn't sound as clean as the h/k725 when i tested with my h/k 770 dual-mono power amp but overall it was kinda hard to tell the difference. thing i love with the kenwood is it's really darn quiet. really great phono section when i tested some vinyl.
> thing i did not expect this sucker makes a pretty badass headamp. i tested my df's via 4-pin xlr to 1/4'' adapter for a quick run and i was shock how quiet and clean it sounded. i was like ''What is this?'' lol. i thought the headphone level was annoying at first but i find it wonderful. it's like tuning power amp's input levels to the preamps gain for best possible s/n ratio while leaving enough headroom there for dynamic transients to prevent any clipping. you know what i mean if ever used a power amp with left and right level inputs. headphone out dead quiet too. this makes pretty awesome headamp if wanted it to *but i won't be using it's headphone out much since i always drive my headphones from speaker outputs.*


 
   
  You're doing this with resistor drops I hope...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I personally would go with either the Marantz or the Pioneer. Go with the Pineer if you like things neutral, or the Marantz if you want a little added warmth.


 
  I agree, but there are so many brands I havent got a clue about (sound signiture wise, and particular strengths etc), Yamaha, Marantz Preamps, Fischer, Dyna...sumthing, Accuphase, which Old McIntosh ones are good, Phase Linear. and it goes on.
   
I have spotted a guy who is willing to ship me a fully recently serviced 2275 for $800, which is about $300 over budget, but I am going to see if I can beg/borrow/steal the rest, considering where I am, I think its a really good deal. And I think its headphone out and phono stages will suit very well with the rest of the gear. (HD650, Music Hall MMF-5.1.)
   
  thanks anyway 
   
  Its either that Marantz or a Luxman C-1000 for $500 at the moment. But I'm doing my best to get the Marantz. 
   
   
*EDIT:* scratch that, shipping messup, so its between the Luxman C-1000, Marantz 2252B, and Pioneer SX-980 (240v).


----------



## RexAeterna

ojneg said:


> You're doing this with resistor drops I hope...




no. what's the point? the preamp already uses dropping resistors at the preouts to drop down the power from the power amp. i use it straight from the speaker outs. no resistors. good results too. using speaker outputs is probably best thing i ever done with headphone driving.


----------



## Skylab

With most vintage gear, if you want dropping resistors, all you have to do is use the headphone out. No need to recreate this for using speaker taps.


----------



## monoethylene

My latest baby, the Pio SX 626, fully restored.
   

   
  And my next Project, the Marantz 2325


----------



## Skylab

Wow, very nice! You guys are really making this thread proud


----------



## Rawrbington

a little hungover from the annual 4th of july croquet tournament last night.   The tradition is to get everyone as drunk as possible by the end of the tournament.  it was a success.  and since everyone is off work today and not tomorrow it was a good decision to have the tourney last night instead of today.
   
  nothings been able to sooth the headache until now.  a few ibuprofens, a lot of water and some nice music out of my 2245 to the HD650.  a very smooth non abrasive combination.  oh rocky raccoon


----------



## calipilot227

I've concluded that the headphone out of my SA-6500 absolutely wipes the floor with my Little Dot MKIII. It is incredibly transparent with the tone controls disabled, but the tone controls add a nice boost particularly in the sub bass region.
   
  Quick question, is the headphone-out connected to the preamp or poweramp section?


----------



## Skylab

The answer is both. It's being driven right off the power amp, but it doesn't in any way bypass the preamp.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The answer is both. It's being driven right off the power amp, but it doesn't in any way bypass the preamp.


 
   
  Thanks, that answers my question.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> a little hungover from the annual 4th of july croquet tournament last night.   The tradition is to get everyone as drunk as possible by the end of the tournament.  it was a success.  and since everyone is off work today and not tomorrow it was a good decision to have the tourney last night instead of today.
> 
> nothings been able to sooth the headache until now.  a few ibuprofens, a lot of water and some nice music out of my *2245 to the HD650*.  a very smooth non abrasive combination.  oh rocky raccoon


 
  orange juice -> greasy English style breakfast, works for me, even after a week of student partying.
   
  but that second bit is what I wanted to know


----------



## Silent One

Gotta a hot dinner date with a Pioneer D7000! Though, the audition is expected to last only as long as the appetizer. I've a question regarding sonic quality. I'm the owner of the SX-650. Before making the trip in commute rush traffic, does the BIG BAD D7000 sound a lot better than the SX-650? Or similar sound through the HPO, with differences only being in watts and feature set?





  I leave in one hour, someone save me!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Gotta a hot dinner date with a Pioneer D7000! Though, the audition is expected to last only as long as the appetizer. I've a question regarding sonic quality. I'm the owner of the SX-650. Before making the trip in commute rush traffic, does the BIG BAD D7000 sound a lot better than the SX-650? Or similar sound through the HPO, with differences only being in watts and feature set?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Gooooo!
   
  Tighter bass, more transparent, quick sound rising and fading!!
   
  Thanks me later!!


----------



## Silent One

I'll thank you now! Neither Flouroscan meters work... but the amp does! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 As they say, you get what you pay for, so I think I'll scoop it up at the discounted price. The SX-650 was kind, playing politely inside the listening room.
   
  I want an amp where behind closed doors, the neighbors will wonder if I'm not partying inside with the devil himself!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> And my next Project, the Marantz 2325


 
   
   
   
  Here are some pics of the 2325 I did.
   
 .
   
   
   
  The case had deep scratches in it, and required my orbital sander to smooth out. Yes, that was a last resort, but was needed. only had to replace a few caps with the power supply caps being the main ones(went all out with those two). I used teak oil to finish the case and black satin paint to repaint the grill. I made my own led bulbs to replace the lamps.


----------



## OJNeg

Nice work moodyrn. The 2325 is an absolute monster. I'm finishing up restoring my 2220; still waiting for a replacement pot to come in. I'd like to get my hands on a wood case for mine, they look sweet!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Great effort, moodyrn!


----------



## Silent One

1980 Pioneer SX-D7000... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I brought baby home. Seller's pix below. Will post my own on Saturday once I find a way to shoe-horn this bad boy inside the audio rack! 
   




   
   
   
  Update: The bloom just fell off the rose! Between my carrying it down the long drive way to my car on the street, and then unloading this amp, the Bass control knob came off. And is now lost.




   
  Something I can get from maybe 'The Shack' or eBay?


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 1979-80 Pioneer D7000...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congrats! Very cool-looking.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





manveru said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks. To my surprise, it was much bigger and heavier in person than the pix suggests.


----------



## roadcykler

I recently purchased a Denon DRA-600 to replace the last receiver I had for my second system. It's really nice except the tuner seems a bit wonky and won't stay tuned. It may be my antenna but I'm going to take it in and see about it. I just use a typical dipole and no matter where I position it, it won't stay locked on to a signal. But I almost never listen to the radio anyway so it's not that big of a deal. This is an example with the front door down to show some of the buttons and other controls.


----------



## Silent One

^ Looks very clean!


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Here are some pics of the 2325 I did.
> 
> .
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Looks excellent 
   
  Yesterday I ve cleanded the main amplifiers and next week I will start recapping the most important parts incl. the phono section. Nevertheless, I will have a little problem, because a Sansui Eight Deluxe will arivve this weekend 
   
  Have fun
   
  Philipp


----------



## Silent One

Early impressions with the Vintage Pioneer SX-D7000 Receiver --




  You guys have absolutely no idea... NONE. Ok, you do 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I just wanted to delight in telling you all. Wait, hold that thought. Let's go back about a week inside this thread. I overheard dem Michigan boys, and another perhaps in Illinois 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, talking about there's no substitute for cubic inches, horsepower in reserve or something like that. Well, after finally sitting down to put this amp through its paces, I have to tell you this Big Block swings!
   
  I'm still racing through the music library. But when I first sat down, I played the legendary recording "Save Your Love For Me" - The Cannonball Adderley Quintet featuring Nancy Wilson. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This track was haunting... _and a whole lotta magic. _It's a very wide dynamic recording with a lot of ebb and flow, teasing and pleasing between Nancy and Canonball. This pleasure only lasted 3 minutes and change, so I had to find other tracks to throw at the amp. Needless to say, the Pioneer was unfazed.
   
  Next, I went Al Jarreau and Astrud Gilberto on the amp - thought I was gonna die 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 an untimely death... with the biggest grin on my face. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Skippin' around some more, B.B. King did his thing and right then and there I knew I had a winner! Now satisfied with my purchase, despite no Flouroscan meters, I played some Sly & The Family Stone and Weather Report. Did I mention this amp can swing?!
   
  If I'm to get in the bed before sunrise, I better not play any Billy Cobham or Herbie Hancock! Now, if someone can steer me towards a replacement knob for the Bass control button...
   
   

   
   
  My sampling overnight has been all digital pumped through the sup'd up W4S DAC-1 (Upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "Super Caps"). Saturday, will have to see what vinyl sounds like...


----------



## Skylab

The D-7000 is a nice piece, Silent One, congrats! You should be able to get that bass knob on eBay if you look around a while. And vinyl should sound great - IIRC, the D-7000 even has a moving coil setting on one of its phono inputs!

Moodyrn, that 2325 is just amazing. Superb work on that!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The D-7000 is a nice piece, Silent One, congrats! You should be able to get that bass knob on eBay if you look around a while. And vinyl should sound great - IIRC, the D-7000 even has a moving coil setting on one of its phono inputs!
> 
> Moodyrn, that 2325 is just amazing. Superb work on that!


 
   
  Thanks, Skylab! I find myself here fighting - not sleep but rather temptation. It's fast approaching 0700 hrs and I'm w-i-d-e awake getting acquainted with baby! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I awake after lunch, I'm calling the local electronics shop to inquire about the Flouroscan meters. Yes, Dual Phono Stage.
   
  With the small investment made and the HUGE dividend being returned, I am downright giddy... _you know what I'm talkin' about, Meewoo!_


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great effort, moodyrn!


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Moodyrn, that 2325 is just amazing. Superb work on that!


 
   
  Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Looks excellent
> 
> Yesterday I ve cleanded the main amplifiers and next week I will start recapping the most important parts incl. the phono section. Nevertheless, I will have a little problem, because a Sansui Eight Deluxe will arivve this weekend
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks guys .
   
   
  Quote:


silent one said:


> Early impressions with the Vintage Pioneer SX- D7000 Receiver --
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats on a great find.  You have a killer setup.


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> Thanks, Skylab! I find myself here fighting - not sleep but rather temptation. It's fast approaching 0700 hrs and I'm w-i-d-e awake getting acquainted with baby!   When I awake after lunch, I'm calling the local electronics shop to inquire about the Flouroscan meters. Yes, Dual Phono Stage.




Yes, you owe it to yourself to fix the Flouroscan meters if not to expensive - they are WAY cool


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, it means a lot. Especially considering all of my purchases are made with careful thought, being unemployed. I've gotten by and built this entire system starting summer 2010 simply by selling stuff I'll likely never use again... or want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  When I get a job, I'm gonna be dangerous.


----------



## Rawrbington

Very nice SilentOne!
   
  can the SX 650(?) be compared to the SX D7000?
   
  theres been a 7000 on my local CL for a few months now but the seller is asking for 425$ which seems a bit high to me.  especially since its condition is just  Ok


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Very nice SilentOne!
> 
> can the SX 650(?) be compared to the SX D7000?
> 
> theres been a 7000 on my local CL for a few months now but the seller is asking for 425$ which seems a bit high to me.  especially since its condition is just  Ok


 
   
  Here's what I had to say to a few fellow members on the back channel early this morning:
   
_"There are times... when no matter how close a family is, sometimes siblings will get into it. Fighting like total strangers._
   
_Well, earlier tonight, my newly acquired Pioneer SX-D7000 just reached over and popped the (edit) out of the little brother (SX-650)!_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_"_
   
   
  The SX-D7000 is far more spacious, revealing and 3D like with depth and decay. I've seen them as high or higher than $425. I dropped $245 - the Flouroscan meters don't work. But nuthin', and I mean absolutely nuthin' is holding the amp back sonically. So I took it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I heard the amp with speakers briefly at the seller's home - I now want to acquire some vintage Klipsch speakers in 2013.


----------



## Maverickmonk

That D7000 is beautiful, (as is the rest of the setup). Though I dare say the SX-650 is giving me some more drive to troubleshoot and finish restoring my SX-780 that's awaiting a trip to surgery under the soldering iron (voltage regulator problems)
   
  As for the knob, I'd look on ebay, since there's always lots of vintage knobs for sale there. If not, post a thread over on audiokarma, they're generally really helpful over there. A forum member there hooked me up with a new selector switch assembly for my SX-780
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> My sampling overnight has been all digital pumped through the sup'd up W4S DAC-1 (Upgraded Digital Board; Low ESR "Super Caps"). Saturday, will have to see what vinyl sounds like...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> That D7000 is beautiful, (as is the rest of the setup). Though I dare say the SX-650 is giving me some more drive to troubleshoot and finish restoring my SX-780 that's awaiting a trip to surgery under the soldering iron (voltage regulator problems)
> 
> As for the knob, I'd look on ebay, since there's always lots of vintage knobs for sale there. If not, post a thread over on audiokarma, they're generally really helpful over there. A forum member there hooked me up with a new selector switch assembly for my SX-780


 
   
  Thanks, Maverickmonk. Looking back, I would have elected to carry the amp down the long driveway out to my car parked on the street differently. I was carrying the amp with the face in to my stomach, both arms underneath the chassis. I now realize the slight up and down and slight side-to-side motion from walking may have rubbed the knob off while in contact with my body.
   
  I should have had the front of the amp facing outward.


----------



## Skylab

I have quite a few spare Pioneer knobs, but they are all for the xx50 and xx80 series. The D7000 bass control appears to be a fader not a pot. I don't have anything that would go on that. I do thnk that if you asked in Barter Town on AudioKarma you might get one cheap or even free...but you have to subscribe to AK to have access to Barter Town.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks. I'll walk into Barter Town and check it out!


----------



## kstuart

Just curious if owners of vintage Marantz receivers and amps bought them:
   
  - on ebay
  - from craigslist
  - garage sale, thrift shop ( ! )
  - other
   
  ?


----------



## moodyrn

LOL, I think all of my purchases fit all the above.


----------



## Silent One

Ironically, in the past few years, I tripped over ALL kinds of bargains and gems for vintage iron... but wasn't in the market.




   
  It took this thread to rekindle my interest.


----------



## ardgedee

Funny how that works, huh?


----------



## Skylab

I bought my Marantz 2285 on eBay.


----------



## Silent One

Bought my Pioneer SX-650 on eBay; SX-D7000 local pick up from Craig's List.


----------



## ardgedee

kstuart said:


> Just curious if owners of vintage Marantz receivers and amps bought them:
> 
> - on ebay
> - from craigslist
> ...




I hven't got any Marantz gear, but I'll say that I've acquired vintage equipment through all of the above ("other" == rescued from a recycling bin) except Craigslist. And that wasn't for lack of trying Craigslist, either.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





silent one said:


> SX-D7000 local pick up from Craig's List.


 
  I'm very glad to hear that you're enjoying the new amp. It vindicates those of us who felt that the transistor sound of the mid-'70s had to give way to better power devices (VFETs and MOSFETs) and/or improved biasing circuitry to get rid of what was looking more and more to be the SQ culprit: crossover distortion at low power levels, where most listening gets done. The Fluroscan meters just happened to arrive with the new bias circuit. They're cool-looking but not really necessary-- they're reading voltage, not the actual power into the load (see the service manual-- it calibrates the meter against a known voltage at the speaker terminals). But I'll bet if you can get power back to the preamp section, the Fluroscans will spring to life too. Open it up and look for the simple stuff first: blown fuse, loose multipin connector, etc etc.
   
  Voltage meters are very useful in one big respect: If you see the meters dancing furiously but there's no sound, you know 1) something's wrong and 2) you better turn the volume knob down before you discover the accidentally-flipped mute button or tape monitor switch and flip it back.
   
  But let's say it doesn't spring to life, and you find yourself facing a big repair bill. There's a workaround: As a rule of thumb, preamps improved more over the next decade than power amps. It seems sacrilegious to suggest it, but a separate near-TOTL preamp from Yamaha or Hitachi or Kenwood likely wouldn't cost as much as the repair, and you'd have a much more versatile and likely better-sounding preamp section. All this depends on the breaks, and it's just a suggestion. I know you want to fix the Pioneer, and we're all hoping it's something relatively simple. Just giving you a possible Plan B.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Just curious if owners of vintage Marantz receivers and amps bought them:
> 
> - on ebay
> - from craigslist
> ...


 

 Picked up my 2220 off Craigslist. Was in working condition, but I'm working on a recap anyway.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
   

   
   
   
  wualta, for your guidance I am grateful (same for the rest of you). I stuck my Denon D7000 wearing head underneath the hood to look for obvious signs of trauma. Nothing really stood out. So, I lower the hood and went back to listening. 
   
  Earlier this afternoon, I spoke to a cat about getting it benched. The fee is $75 and the diagnosis would take the tech about 7-10 days due to current repairs ahead of me. I'm not willing to invest too much for repair/reconditioning. Finding out the health of my amp could be very useful, however. And help me determine if I wanna buy another amp or how much is estimated to be left in the tank. Is it on its last legs? Caps leaking or going out? Audio improvements to be had be cleaning it up internally with new caps and stuff?
   
  I have an open mind but not an open wallet. I could see maybe allowing up to an additional $200 depending on what's being addressed but no more. Opportunity costs abound - I'll get into something else, somewhere else. After all, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was looking for an amp when I found this one first... _Next!_
   
  I connected a few things to find out just what is operational. First, I spun some vinyl to see if both Phono Stages work. After an hour of fun, I realized I still had a check list to run through. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Connected my Sony DAT; IEM's; OTL amp as Pre... all seems to be ok save the Flouroscan "Hit Parade" and AM/FM. I really could get by without these two things though. I mean, who doesn't like money?


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I connected a few things to find out just what is operational. First, I spun some vinyl to see if both Phono Stages work. After an hour of fun, I realized I still had a check list to run through.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Great! so the phono and aux inputs all work? the only things gone are the meters and the tuner section? That's excellent news. I'd run it as-is in that case. Enjoy.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now in-session with Astrud Gilberto...
   
  I'm usually a silent and mellow cat. But a couple of things have me laughing inside the room, audibly so, in the wee hours of the morning. It's ok, I'm home alone. 
   
  Anyway, I'm sill burning through my music library sampling. The ROI is sky high! (Return On Investment)  And I just realized I have been doing all this fussing over "Flouroscan" this and that, when in fact I like my listening room dark... and silent! The amp has a Dimmer switch to boot, so what am I missing really?!




   
  I wouldn't be surprised if the Dimmer switch @ $1.99 is behind all my Flouroscan troubles


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now in-session with Astrud Gilberto...
> 
> I'm usually a silent and mellow cat. But a couple of things have me laughing inside the room, audibly so, in the wee hours of the morning. It's ok, I'm home alone.
> 
> ...


 

 Have you browsed around AK at all? It's been a while since I visited, but there is the Silver Face area there and I seem to recall there being threads about repairing the flouroscan meters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, I haven't. And haven't thought to do so. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's been Pizza & Music from sunset to sunrise, with mid-afternoon checks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I use to visit AK once in a Blue Moon. 
   
  Thanks for the reminder, will head over there after lunch!


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can you elaborate more on that ?
  I ask because the usual paradigm on Vintage Audio is "the older the better" until you get back into the tubes, like Saul Marantz's 1950's tube amps.
  If advancement of technology works, then wouldn't you want the new amps that you find in current High End Audio stores ?


----------



## ardgedee

It depends on how you measure progress.

I'd say that you can get good-quality audio equipment that sounds better, is more reliable and cheaper (and more portable!) now than at any point in history. New high-end equipment might be better than ever, but...

What vintage equipment provides is good bang for the buck. A 1979 receiver that sells for $1,500 might be better than $4,000 worth of equipment these days, but then again, used equipment is almost always cheaper. And not everything from the past is better -- there are precious few headphones from thirty or forty years ago that appeal to current tastes.

It's also worth keeping in mind that that 1979 receiver probably sold for $4,000 in 2012 dollars, after adjusting for inflation. And if you're short on space or consciencious about your electric bill, you are going to be better off with a modern headphone amp anyway; a vintage receiver could draw 200 watts or more out of the wall just to put 80 mW into your headphone.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Can you elaborate more on that ?
> I ask because the usual paradigm on Vintage Audio is "the older the better" until you get back into the tubes, like Saul Marantz's 1950's tube amps.
> If advancement of technology works, then wouldn't you want the new amps that you find in current High End Audio stores ?


 
  To paraphrase RGD, it's how you value progress, and where you find the sweet spot. Some stuff is so old and is in such demand it's gone way up in value. Witness the prices on old Pioneer receivers. Tubes operate so differently from mid-'70s transistors that they not only sound different, they behave different, and people will always like that sound, and the supply is tight, so again, prices tend to be high. 
   
  But then other stuff is old enough so that nobody wants it anymore but new enough that it's not rare yet, or it doesn't have the '70s look, which as you know is very important and has a value of its own. This "old but not too old" spot is where I like to shop-- right on the near edge of the '70s and on into the early '80s and maybe a bit beyond. The '70s luxury look was gone but the tech hadn't been cheapened yet.. and it was still advancing. The quality's there, the demand is lower, there's plenty of it out there: voila, a sweet spot. Depending, by definition, on the way you look at it. 
   
  Sure, technology advances. Sure, the '70s look is neatokeen. How much did you want to pay for it? At some point, if you're a cheapskate like me, for a given component you simply have to say "good enough" at some point on the timeline, because the tech hasn't advanced up a straight line over the last 35 years. Finding the max slope on the curve-- well, we could be here all night discussing it. But that's what it's about if you want that max ROI Silent One is having so much fun with right now. And yes, the good-enough point is different for amps, preamps, phono cartridges, tape recorders, turntables, headphones and speakers. Fun, eh? Yes, yes it is.


----------



## wualta

And just to show that you that there are high-quality sleepers still out there, and that they dated from 1979 and went all the way through the BPC Period right up til the Dawn of DVD... This is a 1994 Sony MOSFET integrated amp. No digital anything. About 80 watts/channnel, and yes, there is a headphone jack under the bottom panel.
   

SONY TA-F606ES


----------



## Skylab

I think there has been good gear in every era. And there has been not so good in every era. And like current generation stuff, there is often disagreement as to which is which 

I'm staring right now at my Cary SLP-05 preamp, and thinking that if you grabbed someone off the street who knew zero about hifi, showed them the Cary, and then showed them my Pioneer SX-1980, and asked them to identify the one made in 1978 and the one made in 2008, how many would guess correctly...


----------



## ardgedee

Obviously the one with the most blue LEDs is the most futuristic!


----------



## wualta

Yes, blindingly-bright ultrablue LEDs are future-tastic!  The more it hurts your eyes, the more futurey it is.
   
  The point is that the sweet spot need not be confined to the Golden Age or slightly after. There are good performance/price deals to be found all along the bell curve, even on the razor-thin edges, where 2-channel technology reached a maximum, but obviously those are the few and the far between and require research and luck to find.


----------



## WiR3D

After looking like a mad pig for a marantz, I have now given up and am bidding on a refurbed SX-980, and I think I would have liked the marantz for the HD650, but IF I could find a EU version it would cost more then a refurbed US unit, so that went out the window, and the damn things weigh so much!, ironically the 2285 is lighter then the 2275, and the 2265 seems the good spot, but the pricing just was not affordable.
   
  Owell. Tough gravy.


----------



## moodyrn

With all of the misses I've had recently(ex san 9090db for 250.00) I may have just scored a deal on a marantz 2330"B" for the cool low price of 500.00. I think they go for about double that, and especially considering the exclusivity of the B version. He doesn't have any pics posted but claims to be the original owner and being mint. So it's worth the hour drive to at least check it out. Hopefully it's everything he says it is. If so, my 2325 will be going on ebay. From what I've read, it's not much of an upgrade sonically, but visually it looks much better and is even more rare than what I already have.


----------



## trentino

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> With all of the misses I've had recently(ex san 9090db for 250.00) I may have just scored a deal on a marantz 2330"B" for the cool low price of 500.00. I think they go for about double that, and especially considering the exclusivity of the B version. He doesn't have any pics posted but claims to be the original owner and being mint. So it's worth the hour drive to at least check it out. Hopefully it's everything he says it is. If so, my 2325 will be going on ebay. From what I've read, it's not much of an upgrade sonically, but visually it looks much better and is even more rare than what I already have.


 

 Hm, how shall I put this...I hate you moodyrn.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, but I'm really keeping my fingers crossed. Everything he's saying sounds nice, but I won't know for sure until I get there. But I will be taking my he6 with me.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds like a great score if it is as advertised! We will expect a full report


----------



## moodyrn

About to leave now lol. He did just text me to say a couple of bulbs are out, but other than that it's mint. A couple of bulbs out is not a deal breaker for me as I plan to change them to leds anyway. But saying it's mint except for a couple of bulbs being out is the same as saying this car is brand new, except I just put 30,000 miles on it. But I was able to talk him down to 450.00 for the bulbs being out.


----------



## monoethylene

Slowly but everything will come together 
   

   
  And meanwhile I am listening with this..
   

   
  and this
   

   
  And this will come next week..


----------



## kstuart

Okay, so isn't there a significant difference in value between a 40 year old (Marantz) receiver that is "mint" and one that is "recapped" ?
  I was under the impression that a vintage 70's receiver that sat on a store room shelf for 40 years, still needs to have many of its electrical parts replaced due to its age ?


----------



## monoethylene

In my opinion mint means that there are no scratches and the item comes as it was build. Nevertheless recapping doesnt destroy the status mint but for example if you are going to change the speaker plugs and or the knobs to other, not original ones than it is not mint in my opinion...
   
   
  My Sansui 7000 is really mint and comes with all manual and accessories..
   
  I will recap it as well because this is fun


----------



## Skylab

Mono, that's quite a collection you got Workin !

Recapping really is the only way to get the most out of vintage gear, IMO. 40 year old electrolytic caps are in some state of decay, there is almost no doubt about this. 

I just got a RT-707 reel to reel deck recapped, and the difference between the stock unit and the recapped one is startling. To be fair, I thought (and still think) the unrestored one sounds darn good! But the recapped one is head and shoulders above.


----------



## Silent One

Regarding Marantz, what makes the "B" version the "B" all in their line-up?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mono, that's quite a collection you got Workin !
> 
> *Recapping really is the only way to get the most out of vintage gear, IMO. 40 year old electrolytic caps are in some state of decay, there is almost no doubt about this.*
> 
> I just got a RT-707 reel to reel deck recapped, and the difference between the stock unit and the recapped one is startling. To be fair, I thought (and still think) the unrestored one sounds darn good! But the recapped one is head and shoulders above.


 
   
  It's hot out here! I was just fixin' to grab something cold to drink. When you served up something cold for me to chew on.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Regarding Marantz, what makes the "B" version the "B" all in their line-up?


 
  Marantz fan site indicates that the difference is largely cosmetic:
   
  http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/mfaq.html#acomps
   
  However lately, cosmetics seem to matter to people...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks. But, I'm from Hollywood so... _looks matter. _


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks. But, I'm from Hollywood so... _looks matter. _


 
  I'm in South Africa, we're all hot


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You mean you've never been to Pink's ?


----------



## moodyrn

Well, I made the trip down to Tuscaloosa to check out the 2330B. Upon arriving it didn't look like I would be leaving with it. A storm had just come through, and the power was out. So I couldn't test it. But just as I was getting ready to walk out the door, the power came on.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The guy who was selling it was a college student(very friendly to deal with even called me sir making me feel like a very old 37), and told me it had just been passed down to him from his dad. It was a little dirty, but there were no scratches or dents anywhere, so I knew it would clean up nice. I remember reading some time ago that sonically it wasn't much better than the 2325, so when I plugged in my he6(using my ipod as a source), I was expecting a sound that was at least similar to my 2325. But what I heard was something very different and interesting. The tone wasn't nearly as warm. It was still warm, but just a touch warm. Not even as warm as my sansui. Also, it played louder than I remember my 2325 playing using my ipod as a source through the headphone jack. So after confirming all of the inputs worked I decided to bring it home.
   
  As far as issues go, all of the indicators lights worked, but only one of the dial tuner lights worked. The volume knob was a little scratchy, but not as much as I would have expected. The owner told me, his dad cleaned to pots with contact cleaner periodically. The power button was sticky, but these were very minor issues I knew would be cured with a little deoxit. The first thing I do once I pop the hood of a new vintage toy is check the bias and voltage pots. I checked for dc offset, and it was 0. Huh? I initially thought something was wrong. Even with vintage gear I purchased in the past that was absolutely mint, the bias pots always needed to be adjusted. I moved on to the voltage pots which are suppose to be adjusted for 16mv. One was 15 and the other was 16.9. They barely needed adjusting. This makes no sense, unless the owners dad(who was the original owner) periodically had this thing serviced, but who knows. So I decided to give it a good clean up, soak all of the knobs and face plate over night and put her back together the next morning.
   
  Now finally the sound. After hearing was I heard  when I first picked it up, I decided to do a little more research on AK on the differences between this and my 2325. For sure the impressions I read some time ago couldn't be very accurate. So for the most part, many say the 2330 is superior to the 2325, and some prefer the 2325, but most say they do sound very different. On the inside the most obvious difference is the 2330 has dual power supplies, but also have power supply caps that are unobtanium. So initially, it was hard for me to decided which one I preferred. The 2325 has the classic marantz signature of most of the 22xx series; just more of it. It's very warm(but a good warm), musical, with excellent 3d sound stage. It has the ability to just throw images all around the room. It's also very, very smooth sounding with slightly rolled off highs. The 2330b is just a little warm. I would say the tone is close to the kenwood kr9600 I use to have. But maybe just a tad warmer. Definitely not as warm as my 2325 or even my sansui au-517. So it's more natural sounding, while still sounding like a marantz. My wife preferred the 2330b by a mile, but for me it wasn't so cut and dry. I became accustom to and a big fan of the sound of the 2325. It's a sound the 2330b just doesn't have.
   
  But after listening to the 2330b for about an hour and switching back to the 2325, for me it's not even close now. I much prefer the 2330b. No it doesn't have the warm gooey magic of the 2325,  but what it does have the 2325 could only dream of having. First of all, it's more neutral and sounds more natural. It sounds cleaner(maybe one of the benefits of the dual power supplies), and much more transparent. The sound is even more 3d than the 2325 which I thought was already very 3d. The 2325 sounds cloudy in comparison. The 2330b still manages to sound smooth, but without all of the warmth of the 2325. And most of all, no treble roll off(the first marantz I've listened to that didn't have that). Also the bass extends further. Now that really caught me by surprise, since I always loved the bass presentation of the 2325. The preamp is also better. I have to go higher on the volume knob on the 2330b to get the same volume I would with the 2325. But I'm able to go louder more cleanly with my he6 out of the headphone jack. And as a result, my jh13 are hiss free, no impedance adapter needed. It's almost like an impedance adapter is built in. I can go all the way to 12:00 on the volume knob with my jh13s. 9:00 was all I could handle with the 2325. And just like with the 2325, my w3000 are also very quiet. One of the the criticisms of a lot of vintage gear is, yes they can have a sound that can't be duplicated today, but technically they are not as good as modern gear. Well that's not the case with this one. It has all of the technicalities of a modern high end amp, while still having the musicality of a high end vintage receiver. I can also see how some over at AK may prefer the warmness of the 2325 over the 2330, but one thing for sure. The 2330b is technically superior. I will post pics a little later.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Slowly but everything will come together
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Monoethylene that's very impressive. The 2325 is shaping up nicely as well.


----------



## Skylab

NICE! Great stuff Moodyrn.
   
  The indicator lights all work?  That's good news as they are soldered.  The dial lights are fuse-style.  I think I have some LEDs for those I could sell you pretty cheap, PM me if you want me to check.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Skylab. I have a few of the stock lamp bulbs left over from when I replaced them with leds in the 2325, still ended up being one short though. I will be sending you a pm shortly to inquire about the leds you have left. Well here are a few pics. She ended up cleaning up nicely, it didn't look nothing like this when I picker it up. I borrowed the wood cabinet from my 2325 to take pics with.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Monoethylene that's very impressive. The 2325 is shaping up nicely as well.


 

 Yeahh, your 2330B too  
   
  The main amplifiers are done as well as the PSB and the Phonoboard. I only need some caps (yes, the big ones because one is leaking) and the relay. For the caps I ve choosen a pair of Nichicon KG series 15000uF 80V from parts connexion. These will fit nicely. The relay will be a Omron MY2-02 style eventhough I dont have a good source right now.
   
  The Sansui will arrive early next week..
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## WiR3D

I want... so badly... still on the expedition. Sigh...


----------



## woody88

So moodyrn,
   
  did you score the 2330 as your expected price of $450, or did you do even better than that?


----------



## moodyrn

I didn't offer any less. 450 was already a steal considering how good the condition was. I'm really happy with it so far.


----------



## runswithaliens

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> It depends on how you measure progress.
> I'd say that you can get good-quality audio equipment that sounds better, is more reliable and cheaper (and more portable!) now than at any point in history. New high-end equipment might be better than ever, but...
> What vintage equipment provides is good bang for the buck. A 1979 receiver that sells for $1,500 might be better than $4,000 worth of equipment these days, but then again, used equipment is almost always cheaper. And not everything from the past is better -- there are precious few headphones from thirty or forty years ago that appeal to current tastes.
> It's also worth keeping in mind that that 1979 receiver probably sold for $4,000 in 2012 dollars, after adjusting for inflation. And if you're short on space or consciencious about your electric bill, you are going to be better off with a modern headphone amp anyway; a vintage receiver could draw 200 watts or more out of the wall just to put 80 mW into your headphone.


 
   
  Hmmm, that is a very interesting comment about the 200 watts or more as it seems electricity is getting sorta pricey these days.   I am looking at a 70's Marantz reciever for use as both a headphone amp for my HD650s and pre-amp to my JBL active monitors (which use 20 watts each; playing music or just sitting there on), but it sounds like even if you aren't driving speakers you are still burning up the watts?  I wonder if that is true of modern stereo receivers?  (thinking about the Yamaha R-S700 if I don't go vintage).


----------



## Silent One

'Silent notes' made audible..._and_ _visible. _





   
  - On the heels of moodyrn's accomplishment with the Marantz, I'm inspired to order delivery for tonight's dinner, so I'll have more time to shop the classifieds. Right here, right now! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  - I'm strongly considering getting my Pioneer SX-D7000 recapped. I know the price of caps and labor will vary shop-to-shop. All things considered, what kind of money am I looking at roughly to get this service (ball park)?


----------



## Skylab

I'm not familiar enough with the D7000 to give you a really accurate picture, but a complete restore and recap including the main filter caps will run you $400-600. That will include a total deoxit of all controls, and other required adjustments and whatnot.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm not familiar enough with the D7000 to give you a really accurate picture, but a complete restore and recap including the main filter caps will run you $400-600. That will include a total deoxit of all controls, and other required adjustments and whatnot.


 
   
  Thanks, this helps! As I'll have thoughts on what to do next occupying my thoughts over the weekend. Now, I can spend the next few days with a target in mind - another amp in good condition for around $600 or recondition what I've got. It will be fun - I'm already guaranteed admittance, just a matter of picking which suit.


----------



## Terja

Traded in my Pioneer SX-650 for a Kenwood KA-405 and I'm sitting here with a huge smile on my face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ! Am running my Hifiman HE-500 via speaker posts and it sounds amazing, so much better overall synergy than with the Pioneer. One thing I noticed with the Pioneer is how the speaker posts A and B were wired in series, and for some reason B got the signal first. I haven't cracked open the Kenny yet but there is just a little bit of something more via the B speaker posts than A, possibly because of the added resistance of the signal moving from B to A. Anyway, just based on how the Kenwood is sounding I feel that line may be very underrated. I see a lot more commentary on the Pioneer line than the Kenwoods. And yeah, I dig the looks of the 405 ...
   
  P.S. The headphone out of the Pioneer was far better than the Kenwood and could actually drive my Hifiman decently; the Kenwood doesn't even put up a fight, he .. but out of the speaker taps it's another story, the Kenwood whups watts ....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





terja said:


> Traded in my Pioneer SX-650 for a Kenwood KA-405 and I'm sitting here with a huge smile on my face
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good to hear your transition to joy! I'd like to trade my SX-650 in or toward something. Promising but way too polite; pedestrian for my desires. If the opportunity presented itself, I'd have no problem  bringing home some big bad vintage Kenwood iron!


----------



## Terja

Kenwood irons are some of the best looking vintages out there both in terms of aesthetics and function. Unfortunately not too many come up for sale so reviews are kind of sparse. Glad I made the trade to get one even though I am only using it as a headphone amp. I do most of my listening via headphones so no regrets. Listening to Mitchell & Dewbury's 'Rapping with the Gods' right now and my HE-500s sound incredibly well-matched with the amp - complete and full detail across the entire spectrum - it's all there, just the way I always expected the music to sound. I also like the feature on the amp where the tone controls can be defeated with the flick of a switch so you can hear the music without coloration. All in all a good move ...


----------



## roadcykler

There was someone in the Portland area that had one of these (Sansui G-33000) on Craigslist and it was supposed to be in great shape. He was only asking $7500. For that kind of money you could get could get an entire vintage system. I guess this is pretty rare and considered by many to be the epitome of vintage receivers. With it's power supply it weighs in at a cool 100 pounds.


----------



## richt54

I have two. The Sansui 881 circa 1974-1976 that I just acquired. I also have my Mac 4100 with both near mint condition in all ways. I have a HK 680i which is in excellent condition but not as pretty as these two!


----------



## Terja

What's the power output (not to mention input) of that behemoth? Looks nifty though .. but 7.5 grand?? I wonder how much it cost during production and what the inflation-rated price would be. And of course the ultimate question ... why? What does it bring to the table beyond the obvious diminishing returns of SQ?
   
  Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> There was someone in the Portland area that had one of these (Sansui G-33000) on Craigslist and it was supposed to be in great shape. He was only asking $7500. For that kind of money you could get could get an entire vintage system. I guess this is pretty rare and considered by many to be the epitome of vintage receivers. With it's power supply it weighs in at a cool 100 pounds.


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





terja said:


> And of course the ultimate question ... why?


 
   
  I wondered the exact same thing the first time I saw this amp. I can't imagine anyone ever needing 450 watts...


----------



## Silent One

Well, those who listen to recordings with wide dynamic range, say Classical, could use the power reserve this monster has on tap.


----------



## WiR3D

lies its all for blowing clothes off of woman


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> lies its all for blowing clothes off of woman


 
   
   
  ...I think I need one of these...


----------



## OldSui

Hey guys great thread! Would anyone know how much a vintage Vietnam era Sansui model 3000-A would be worth? Also have a pair of Sansui S-71U speakers, 15" sub 4" mid 3"tweet. All in perfect working order. Very loud and crisp sound. Have turntable as well. Anyways it was my fathers gear and he passed away in '06 and rather than sitting in storage I wanted someone to have it that would really appreciate it, as I am sure he would too. He loved that stereo, and he named her old Sui lol. She needs a little cleaning up but otherwise in excellent condition I have a pic with her all lit up. Thanks a lot!


----------



## OldSui

ps he bought the set while he was overseas in the war. although I dontthink the  speakers are that old. jus the turntable and tuner.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





oldsui said:


> Hey guys great thread! Would anyone know how much a vintage Vietnam era Sansui model 3000-A would be worth? Also have a pair of Sansui S-71U speakers, 15" sub 4" mid 3"tweet. All in perfect working order. Very loud and crisp sound. Have turntable as well. Anyways it was my fathers gear and he passed away in '06 and rather than sitting in storage I wanted someone to have it that would really appreciate it, as I am sure he would too. He loved that stereo, and he named her old Sui lol. She needs a little cleaning up but otherwise in excellent condition I have a pic with her all lit up. Thanks a lot!


 
  post the picture


----------



## OldSui

the speakers and rest of the equipmentis in storage i just got this out for the photo.


----------



## ironsurvivor

I have a Sansui G9000DB. Sadly something went wrong and its just outputing crackle. I need to have someone take a look at it.


----------



## Skylab

That is certainly a receiver worth fixing up.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> There was someone in the Portland area that had one of these (Sansui G-33000) on Craigslist and it was supposed to be in great shape. He was only asking $7500. For that kind of money you could get could get an entire vintage system. I guess this is pretty rare and considered by many to be the epitome of vintage receivers. With it's power supply it weighs in at a cool 100 pounds.


 

 I live in Portland and kept seeing his (just assuming seller is a he) ad. IIRC he started at $9k or somewhere in that ballpark.


----------



## OldSui

WOW what a beast that is! NICE.


----------



## slip84

You guys are the worst. I've been reading through this thread for the past few weeks and you've forced me to do two things:
   

 Register at head-fi.org
 Buy a "brand new" Sansui 5000a with a pair of SP-2000
   
  Argh!


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





slip84 said:


> You guys are the worst. I've been reading through this thread for the past few weeks and you've forced me to do two things:
> 
> 
> Register at head-fi.org
> ...


 
  welcome to head-fi, _Sorry about your wallet_


----------



## slip84

Haha - so far, not much harm has been done. I sold my Wii, Xbox 360, and some games and that paid for the Sansui easily. My headphone collection, on the other hand...\
   
  So, now that I've posted here, I had a quick question about my "new" receiver. FM reception in my area is quite horrible without an antenna. I picked up a little dipole FM antenna only to be surprised that the receiver has two connections on the back - one 300 ohm and one 75 ohm. Which is better to use and why? And on top of that, do they require different kinds of antennae? I'm fairly new to the whole FM thing (I'm a youngin' so to speak) and don't have a lot of knowledge around broadcast.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





terja said:


> What's the power output (not to mention input) of that behemoth? Looks nifty though .. but 7.5 grand?? I wonder how much it cost during production and what the inflation-rated price would be. And of course the ultimate question ... why? What does it bring to the table beyond the obvious diminishing returns of SQ?


 
   
  450 watts/channel into 8 ohms.
   
http://www.classic-audio.com/sansui-g33000-p-253.html


----------



## monoethylene

Here you go   
   

   
  Sansui 7000


----------



## Terja

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> 450 watts/channel into 8 ohms.
> 
> http://www.classic-audio.com/sansui-g33000-p-253.html


 
   
  Just read an interesting piece about vintage audio here. I happen to live within easy distance of the shop and have been in checking things out. Good place to see what's what up close. Interesting what he says about the Sansui G-33000. Just still wondering what speakers one would dare to hook up to it (for some reason I can imagine monskers ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


----------



## Skylab

There is an unusual glut of nice vintage stuff on the Chicago Craigslist these days.  Just saw a Pioneer SX-680 for $50.  There are a bunch of other good deals there right now too...assuming the stuff is in the condition described.


----------



## Silent One

1980 Pioneer SX-D7000
   
  Formerly, I only shot the bottom side of the interior before the Nikon's battery shut down. Threw it on the charger, but also threw the Pioneer back together without looking at it further. Until today! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not sure how my authorized Pioneer dealer will handle it...or the CSI team. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But it won't be me - looks criminal inside the unit!
   
  Still no external signs of cap leakage. Unit sounds good, though. And could buy me time until clean up, perhaps August.


----------



## kstuart

So do any of you thread-readers have a vacuum tube vintage integrated or receiver ?
   
  (As opposed to transistor-based, and as opposed to tube separates like Dynaco.)


----------



## Skylab

Moodyrn and I both have Fisher tube integrated amps. I love my Fisher.


----------



## moodyrn

I use mine in my beside rig exclusively with a pair of audio technica w3000anv. The combo just sounds fabulous together. It really sings with any heritage line klipsch or similar efficiency speaker as well.
   

 There's another user who had his restored and sold his wa22 after getting it back. Don't know if he still have it or not though.


----------



## BmWr75

I have multiple tube and solid state receivers and integrateds.


----------



## ironsurvivor

I had some pictures on my phone so here ya go.
   
  Sansui g9000db(when it worked) sorry for inverted photo.

   
  Pioneer SA-510 and tuner and my wonderful dt880

   
  Never got the chance to use my  dt880 with the sansui, but i was very very suprised at the sound that pioneer produces. Sounds fantastic out of it. Cant wait to get the sansui fixed and use it. Thanks for taking a look! I got a buddy who can take a look at the sansui. He has fixed things in my past for me. My dads friend brought that amp back from Japan and my dad bought it from him


----------



## Skylab

Nice!  I hope you can get the G9000 fixed, that's a nice piece.


----------



## ironsurvivor

Believe me i really want to get it fixed. Is the 9000 rare or something? What exactly makes that amp so nice? It weighs a ton though. haha. Ive opened it and taken a look, but i dont know much about the innards so ill have my buddy see if he can get it up and running.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> So do any of you thread-readers have a vacuum tube vintage integrated or receiver ?
> 
> (As opposed to transistor-based, and as opposed to tube separates like Dynaco.)


 
   
  A Scott 222C and Fisher X-202-B, although both have been idle for close to a year now due to other more pressing concerns. (...also because they're very effective space heaters, so they're likely to be more of a wintertime interest...)


----------



## claybum

Is $800 a fair price for a Fisher X202B?  It is not refurbished but is in working condition and looks great cosmetically. It is being sold by a local audio tech. Thanks.


----------



## ardgedee

I paid about half that. Up until it was sold to me it was maintained by an old-school electronics guy, so it was in good running order but not necessarily to audiophile or collector's standards). It has all its jewels but some of the brass knob caps are missing.
   
  Since I don't know what they go for on the market these days (especially old Fishers with all their jewels and brass caps intact; those suckers love to get lost, so a complete unit can command a premium), I can't really say what a good price is. There's been a run on vintage electronics generally for the past year.


----------



## claybum

Thanks ardgedee.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ironsurvivor said:


> I had some pictures on my phone so here ya go.
> 
> Sansui g9000db(when it worked) sorry for inverted photo. (Quietly rotated by Silent One)
> 
> ...


 
   
  That Sansui looks gorgeous!


----------



## ironsurvivor

Thank you very much! It has next to no physical wear. Its been taken care of very well.


----------



## Skylab

Sansui G-9000's sell for $500 and up, sometimes way up, depending on condition.  It's a piece worth fixing unless it's really, really broken.


----------



## ironsurvivor

Its gonna get fixed. I just got to find out whats wrong. Hope it doesnt cost to much


----------



## monoethylene

After a short revision and the normal cleaning, he is playing


----------



## Skylab

Superb! Looks very nice


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks a lot Rob. Further I have the original microphone, the antenna, the Service and instruction manual, the guarantee card just everything


----------



## moodyrn

It looks great!!


----------



## captouch

Hi All,
   
  This isn't necessarily vintage, but my issue is one many vintage receiver owners can relate to.
   
  I picked up a 10yr old NAD receiver (T752) this past weekend, and in the course of trying to fix a bad volume knob and opening up the case, I saw what appear (to me) to be bad/leaky caps.  See pictures below:


   
  Do these appear to be leaky caps to all of you?  There's about 8-10 of them that appear that way.
   
  Assuming they're bad, is it unsafe to use the receiver as is for awhile, or does it just degrade SQ?
   
  Ironically enough, I purchased a late 70's Yamaha receiver whose caps were totally fine (knock on wood), but this 10yr old NAD appears to have an issue.
   
  I suppose I could try and re-cap it myself, it's mostly an access issue (I don't want to take apart the whole thing to get access to them).
   
  Anyway, would appreciate any feedback from the group.

 Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> After a short revision and the normal cleaning, he is playing


 
   
  Either I'm looking at a Hollywood set, a museum piece or simply..._hallucinating?_
   
  Very nice!
   
  Also, I want to clean up the interior some on my amp before taking it in. And some of the dust/dirt looks bake in where the printed circuit boards are. Not sure canned air will do the trick. How do you/y'all address baked-on dust/dirt? Actually, what are the few simple steps I can take cleaning the amp inside?


----------



## monoethylene

There are several ways to clean the amp. One time I used Bref and water and then I baked the amp with about 60°C. But this is kind of danger because electronical parts may be destroyed.
   
  Mainly I take glas cleaner and q-tips. this works but it may take time.
   
  Here is my 2325 cleaned in this way:
   

   
  The Sansui was very clean inside


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> There are several ways to clean the amp. One time I used Bref and water and then I baked the amp with about 60°C. But this is kind of danger because electronical parts may be destroyed.
> 
> Mainly I take glas cleaner and q-tips. this works but it may take time.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, monoethylene. But, you do know I'll be starting from here: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







   
   You say Glass cleaner and Q-Tips should harvest that dirt on the right on the pcb? No worries, will put music on through one of the other amps and go at it this Sunday. I'm attempting to reduce the costs some when I take it in.


----------



## Argybargy

Moved the Marantz 2230 to the bedroom.  I just finished installing new binding posts and RCA jacks for the AUX input and Pre Out- Main In jumpers.
  As you can see, there isn't enough room for the posts, so I had to use both the Main and Remote; not a problem since I'll never have more than one set of speakers hooked up.
   
  160GB Ipod Classic> Pure digital out> Modded AK4396 DAC>2230> HE 500 or Pioneer HPM 700
   
  The HPM 700 were just recapped a couple days ago, also with new binding posts.
   
  The whole set up sounds great.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> Moved the Marantz 2230 to the bedroom.  I just finished installing new binding posts and RCA jacks for the AUX input and Pre Out- Main In jumpers.
> As you can see, there isn't enough room for the posts, so I had to use both the Main and Remote; not a problem since I'll never have more than one set of speakers hooked up.
> 
> 160GB Ipod Classic> Pure digital out> Modded AK4396 DAC>2230> HE 500 or Pioneer HPM 700
> ...


 
   
  Great looking presentation - clean and fresh looking. Lurking in the background, Godzilla definitely takes it up another level.


----------



## Argybargy

I need something to smooth over the harsh walls and concrete ceiling.  There's actually an echo when I clap my hands.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> I need something to smooth over the harsh walls and concrete ceiling.  There's actually an echo when I clap my hands.


 
   
  Sooth & smooth --
   
  Ah, but this is something that could be easily handled with, say, Ella...Sarah...Dinah...Nancy, each in their prime.


----------



## BmWr75

When you hear folks talk about leaky caps, it can mean two things. 
   
  First, electrically leaky......capacitors pass AC voltage, but block DC voltage when wired in series in a circuit.  As caps age they can "leak" DC voltage which can cause unwanted noise in an amp.
   
  Second, caps can physically leak fluid, which is a bad sign.  I can't tell from you pictures if this is the case.....I say this because I've seen many radial caps like the ones in your pictures also be glued to the printed circuit board.  What you are seeing could be glue.
   
  Bottomline - how does the receiver sound??  If those 10 caps are all physically and/or electrically leaky it would probably affect the sound quality.
   
   
  Quote: 





captouch said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This isn't necessarily vintage, but my issue is one many vintage receiver owners can relate to.
> 
> ...


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> When you hear folks talk about leaky caps, it can mean two things.
> 
> First, electrically leaky......capacitors pass AC voltage, but block DC voltage when wired in series in a circuit.  As caps age they can "leak" DC voltage which can cause unwanted noise in an amp.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you BmWr75.  The glue theory kind of makes sense as it's a little hard to believe that that many caps would physically leak fluid after "only" 10yrs.  That doesn't seem typical, does it.
   
  As far as sound - it's funny - it sounded quite good before I opened it up.  Then after I opened it up and saw the caps and listened again, I thought "Something seems lacking with the sound."  Probably the latter impression was just influenced by my belief the caps may be bad.  Funny how that works.  
   
  Do physically leaky caps typically also bulge or have any other signs that may differentiate it from glue?


----------



## OJNeg

Here's my Marantz 2220. Finally finished a little restoration on her. Replaced all the electrolytic caps on the power and amp boards, as well as the filter and output caps. Replaced all the lamps, a dirty volume pot, and a faulty diode. She sounds nice and clean now, and is still a beauty.
   
  My next project will be a shelving rack for my receiver, CD player, and turntable. Will report back when it's done.


----------



## Maverickmonk

captouch said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This isn't necessarily vintage, but my issue is one many vintage receiver owners can relate to.
> 
> ...




Those look like leaky caps to me. It fits too, 10 years ago there was a "plague" of bad capacitors that were out of spec terribly, and blew prematurely. Lots of late 90's early 2000's died by the cause of bad powersupply capacitors


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Those look like leaky caps to me. It fits too, 10 years ago there was a "plague" of bad capacitors that were out of spec terribly, and blew prematurely. Lots of late 90's early 2000's died by the cause of bad powersupply capacitors


 
   
   
  I recently replaced the output caps on a co-workers a/v receiver. I was suprised they had gone so early. I'd say it was circa 2003.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Thank you BmWr75.  The glue theory kind of makes sense as it's a little hard to believe that that many caps would physically leak fluid after "only" 10yrs.  That doesn't seem typical, does it.
> 
> As far as sound - it's funny - it sounded quite good before I opened it up.  Then after I opened it up and saw the caps and listened again, I thought "Something seems lacking with the sound."  Probably the latter impression was just influenced by my belief the caps may be bad.  Funny how that works.
> 
> Do physically leaky caps typically also bulge or have any other signs that may differentiate it from glue?


 
   
  Bulging caps is usually a sign something has gone wrong.  Leaking DC voltage can be checked with voltage/ohm meter (VOM).  If the physical leakage is appearing to cause corrosion on other components, then it is probably not just glue.  Replacing these caps after you get the board removed from the chassis is easy, but sometimes getting the board out is not easy.


----------



## Maverickmonk

wotts said:


> I recently replaced the output caps on a co-workers a/v receiver. I was suprised they had gone so early. I'd say it was circa 2003.




Sounds right to me, my friend built his 3 monitor setup for free by replacing caps in early lcd's that went bad. His tv too


----------



## flaming_june

Quote: 





ojneg said:


> Here's my Marantz 2220. Finally finished a little restoration on her. Replaced all the electrolytic caps on the power and amp boards, as well as the filter and output caps. Replaced all the lamps, a dirty volume pot, and a faulty diode. She sounds nice and clean now, and is still a beauty.
> 
> My next project will be a shelving rack for my receiver, CD player, and turntable. Will report back when it's done.


 
   
   
  Nice,
   
  Look what I found today.


----------



## WiR3D

seems to me this thread/hobby is like crack... even more so then normal hifi and headphones
   
  crack level:
  Vintage > Headphones > hifi > Crack


----------



## Blurr

I just bought a Sony TA-E2000ESD pre-amplifier which has been sitting in someone attic for eleven years. I plugged it in and tested it out, everything seems to be in order except there is this screeching sound into the right channel whenever the volume potmeter is turn beyond a quarter of the maximum, this sound comes through the headphone jack as well as the speaker through the power amplifier. My questions is what can I do about this, is cleaning it enough or do I need a new potmeter?


----------



## WiR3D

Quote:  





> potmeter


 
   
  non-useful post incoming:
   
  Potmeter lol - for measuring your THC content


----------



## wualta

Blurr: Sounds like oscillation, which you normally don't hear in preamps, at least not in my experience. Have you checked all the obvious stuff-- does the problem appear on all inputs, analog as well as digital; is the tape monitor loop out of the circuit; stuff like that? I don't think a new "pot" will  solve the problem unless it's an electronic volume control (ie, it controls a VCA which actually ramps the volume up and down). Good luck with that thing-- it looks like a very nice piece of gear indeed.


----------



## Blurr

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Blurr: Sounds like oscillation, which you normally don't hear in preamps, at least not in my experience. Have you checked all the obvious stuff-- does the problem appear on all inputs, analog as well as digital; is the tape monitor loop out of the circuit; stuff like that? I don't think a new "pot" will  solve the problem unless it's an electronic volume control (ie, it controls a VCA which actually ramps the volume up and down). Good luck with that thing-- it looks like a very nice piece of gear indeed.


 
  I checked the pre with the digital input(optical) first thing when I got it home, now I just checked the analog CD input and seems to have the same problem, tried it with and without source direct so that should bypass the monitoring still the same.Lowering the input level did help a little and the problem occurs at around half of max volume, but lowering it too much then I don't get much volume at all. I opened up the cover and saw that beside a bit of dust the inside seems brand new. Next weekend when I have more time I think will be taking the potmeter apart.


----------



## moodyrn

There's a sx-1080 on craiglist that I'm having a hard time trying to decide on. The good: It's only 200.00, and works great according to the seller. Now the bad: It has cosmetic issues. The indicator lights are out, the volume knob is missing(seller does claim to have a close replacement), the back of the left side of the wood case is busted, and the shaft on the tuner flywheel is broken. I think cosmetically it could eventually be brought back to life, but I don't know with the cosmetic issues that it have, if it would be worth a two hour drive and 200.00.
   
  A replacement case may be very hard to find.


----------



## wotts

I don't know about getting the inernals/lights back in order, but Skylab posted a site with replacement cases. I think it might have been for just Fisher? I'll go back and look.


----------



## wotts

http://mcintoshcabinets.com/
   
  It doesn't look like they do Pioneer, but I'd still call and ask about custom work.


----------



## moodyrn

The indicator lights are easy to replace, but finding them seems to be a problem. The knobs and even the flywheel should be pretty easy to come by. The face plate appears to be in good shape from the pics, but the thing that troubles me the most is left wood panel. Here's a pic of what it looks like.


----------



## Skylab

I know plenty of people who will make you a case, cost would be less than $100. But the shaft on the flywheel being broken would make me think long and hard, unless you feel comfortable replacing it yourself. If so, they do come up for sale from time to time. And $200 if it works perfectly aside from those issues is a very nice price.


----------



## moodyrn

100.00 for a new case sounds very good to me. So 150.00 might get this back to looking the way it should assuming the only issues are cosmetic. Now I have to think about if it's also worth a 2 hour drive which will increase the price for me another 60-70.00. But these don't come available all that often though. Guess I'll have to sleep on it and hope it's still available once I make up my mind.


----------



## Skylab

The cool thing too is you can go with traditional walnut on the new case, or something else. I got a new case for my 1250 when I had it, and it was oak. Looked awesome. I sold the 1250, but man was it hard


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

need some help/advice buying a vintage Marantz receiver to hookup to my Dual CS 630Q turntable (listening through fairly good speakers and a few headphones).
   
  I have found 2 in a shop and are wondering if these prices are worth it, or if i'm getting ripped off.
  1) Marantz 4230 receiver (in wood cabinet) [condition 9/10] -->$225
  2) Marantz 1070 receiver [condition 7.5/10] -->$150
   
  are either of these a good deal, and which is better? how much could i realistically bargain these down?
  thanks


----------



## Skylab

The 1070 is an integrated amp, not a receiver, which means it doesn't have a radio tuner. Will still work fine with your turntable.

The 4230 is a Quad receiver. So it's going to have a lot of complex circuitry that you won't ever use. So unless you are in love with its looks, I would go with the 1070, between those two.

As far as negotiating, the last 60 days 1070's on eBay went for $82 - 225. So the price is probably fair depending on what the condition really is. I'd still offer $100 cash and see what kind of reply you get.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The 1070 is an integrated amp, not a receiver, which means it doesn't have a radio tuner. Will still work fine with your turntable.
> The 4230 is a Quad receiver. So it's going to have a lot of complex circuitry that you won't ever use. So unless you are in love with its looks, I would go with the 1070, between those two.
> As far as negotiating, the last 60 days 1070's on eBay went for $82 - 225. So the price is probably fair depending on what the condition really is. I'd still offer $100 cash and see what kind of reply you get.


 
   
  thanks for the reply.
   
  i'll make an offer on the 1070 and if we can agree on a price, is there anything I should be looking out for to make sure it's in good working order.
  obviously, I'll plug it in and see if it plays through speakers and headphones - is there anything else I should be cautious of? (i know old electronics sometimes burn out or dry up)


----------



## Skylab

Work the source selector switch and volume control, and make sure you don't get massive problems when you do. Also, switch the speaker selector on and off and listen for a pop. All those things can typically be dealt with anyway, but it will give you some idea how much work you have in store.

I've also never heard a 1070, to be clear. It's from a generally well regarded era of Marantz gear, but that's as much as I know.


----------



## wotts

I've seen a few 10XX integrateds come across the CL in my area. I almost picked one up just to have an excuse to get the matching tuners. I love the look of those.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

one more question, if I may:
   
  would the Marantz 1070 be a significant upgrade (re. headphone out & speaker out) over a Sony receiver from the 90's? (I'm currently using a Sony STR-AV370) I don't know much about receivers, and am wondering if it is even worth getting.
   
  [again, using a Dual CS 630Q turntable, and Grado 225 & Denon D7000 headphones]


----------



## ardgedee

Yesterday I took the Harmon/Kardon HK670 out to the garage for a light cleaning and DeOxit therapy. Sorry for the poor photos; it was the end of the day and the light in the garage was pretty inconsistent.
   
   
 
   
  Most of these photos are before cleaning, since that's when the camera was handy. All of the scuffs came off with a dustrag, so hooray for that. Some of the scratches on the metal won't come out so easily; I wasn't ready to deal with them this round anyway, but it'll be back on the bench for a nice shining later. Don't think I'll get rid of the service tag, though. I always like seeing those, for some reason.
   
   
 
   
  Interesting board layout, spacious compared to some we've seen here. I don't know how much of that is miniaturization and how much is simply less circuitry being necessary since this is relatively under-featured compared to its monster receiver brethren. Or an institutional disinclination on the part of Harmon/Kardon to make the thing look totally macho. Shrug.
   
  The photo on the left is the view from above, the photo on the right is from underneath (sorry if it looks disorienting; I rotated the photo 90 degrees to make it easier to read next to the "over" shot). Despite the "Twin Power" monicker, there's only one transformer, but it's a biggie. Apparently the power board is itself dual-mono; I don't know what to look for so I couldn't tell. The power amp circuit is most of the middle of the unit, bracketed by matching heatsinks. To the right of the photo on the left is the tuner board.
   
  Underneath, the brown board connected by the long knob shaft is the input switch and, I assume, the phono circuit. The black ribbon cables are the two tape switches (literally! har!). The actual circuit switching happens inside the back of the case; the black ribbons are flat mechanical cables so the front panel switches can move the back panel switches (kind of like how a shifter cable on your bike works).
   
  Getting DeOxit into the pots and switches is a nuisance, since they're hidden deep in a recess. Hopefully I did a good enough job. (I didn't bother with the tone knobs, since I never use tone controls, usually -- and I've already regretted that decision tonight. Let that be a lesson to me.)
   
  I was having an annoying and somewhat scary problem with the left channel dropping out. Well, while dusting things off, I noticed a few of the fuses on the main amp board (there are two per channel, plus one on what I think is the power board) weren't fully seated. So I pushed 'em into place. After plugging things back in and starting it up tonight, no more left channel problem. So hooray for that!
   
  How's it sound? ...well, as good as always, as far as I can tell through the bit of a cold I've got right now. I promise to enjoy it more once I'm able to again.


----------



## Silent One

1980 Pioneer SX-D7000
   
  Since bringing this vintage iron home for $245, I have been quite delighted. As a computer audiophile, I am using a sup'd up Mac mini music server on the front-end. Yesterday morning (0545 hours), I downloaded a new OS for the mini (Mountain Lion), and to my surprise 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, there's even more resolution to be had in that box.._.who knew?! _
   
  I still aim to have the amp inspected (September?). But if replacement caps yield any more audio goodness,_ I'll be off on a shopping spree for new music in various formats._


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000
> 
> Since bringing this vintage iron home for $245, I have been quite delighted. As a computer audiophile, I am using a sup'd up Mac mini music server on the front-end. Yesterday morning (0545 hours), I downloaded a new OS for the mini (Mountain Lion), and to my surprise
> 
> ...


 
  So the new cat soud better than the two older siblings?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Man! I'm hearing a much improved presentation with Amarra. The way notes are expressed, separated, detailed and decay. Nice tone and staging. It sounds slightly more musical and feels more enjoyable.
   
  1. Mountain Lion
  2. Snow Leopard
  3. - Intentionally left blank 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  4. Lion


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Man! I'm hearing a much improved presentation with Amarra. The way notes are expressed, separated, detailed and decay. Nice tone and staging. It sounds slightly more musical and feels more enjoyable.
> 
> 1. Mountain Lion
> 2. Snow Leopard
> ...


 
   
  Thanks.
  I am still with Snow Leopard just becuase of all the bad reviews regarding the sound out of Lion. I don't know if I should go to ML.


----------



## kstuart

Earlier, one of the regular readers of the thread was unfamiliar with the need to recap vintage electronics, and I just came across this link, which is a very clear explanation, as well as DIY instructions:
   
  http://www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I'm listening to a normal bias Lambda out of an SRD-7 driven by a Realistic STA2200.  It's a beast of a mosfet amp from the 70s.  It weighs about 60 pounds and I made the mistake of having it delivered to work.  It sat in my office for 2 months before I managed to get it home.
> 
> Vintage amps are very popular on the ortho thread.


 
  Realistic made some nice stuff in the 70's. The internals of the 2200 were very stout!


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> one more question, if I may:
> 
> would the Marantz 1070 be a significant upgrade (re. headphone out & speaker out) over a Sony receiver from the 90's? (I'm currently using a Sony STR-AV370) I don't know much about receivers, and am wondering if it is even worth getting.
> 
> [again, using a Dual CS 630Q turntable, and Grado 225 & Denon D7000 headphones]


 

 If it's in working order good gawd yes! You will melt when you hear it. Test it out there of course. Bring 3.5mm to rca jacks and headphones.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





slip84 said:


> You guys are the worst. I've been reading through this thread for the past few weeks and you've forced me to do two things:
> 
> 
> Register at head-fi.org
> ...


 

 I had a 2000X receiver and SP-2000 speakers. Like the receiver. Speakers were nice but lacked some low end oomph. Wood work was very nice.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 You should _run..._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Earlier, one of the regular readers of the thread was unfamiliar with the need to recap vintage electronics, and I just came across this link, which is a very clear explanation, as well as DIY instructions:
> 
> http://www.antiqueradio.org/recap.htm


 
   
  Outstanding!


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> If it's in working order good gawd yes! You will melt when you hear it. Test it out there of course. *Bring 3.5mm to rca jacks *and headphones.


 
  why the 3.5mm to RCA jacks?


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> why the 3.5mm to RCA jacks?


 
  You can feed it a signal from your smart phone through the AUX in. If it's a decent shop they will let you hook it up there and test things. I used to carry the 3.5mm to rca cable, 3 feet of speaker cable and a small car speaker with me when I would hunt for items at thrift stores, etc.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You should _run..._


 
   
  Well, my iMac is from late 2006 (iMac6,1) and I just read ML will not run in it.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> Well, my iMac is from late 2006 (iMac6,1) and I just read ML will not run in it.


 
  But Lion would?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For audio, I feel Snow Leopard is superior and arrived one year earlier to boot!


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Anyone use the Marantz 2xxx series as a preamp? I have the chance to get a 2220b at a great price, but I would only need it as a preamp to feed into my KA-7100.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> Anyone use the Marantz 2xxx series as a preamp? I have the chance to get a 2220b at a great price, but I would only need it as a preamp to feed into my KA-7100.


 
   


 I have the 2220 myself. I guess you could use it as a preamp buy using the "tape" outputs. It has the classic "loudness" EQ board that a lot of people seem to like. What price can you get it at? Does the Kenwood not have a good preamp section?


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





ojneg said:


> I have the 2220 myself. I guess you could use it as a preamp buy using the "tape" outputs. It has the classic "loudness" EQ board that a lot of people seem to like. What price can you get it at? Does the Kenwood not have a good preamp section?


 

 It doesn't have any pre-outs, it's completely passive, which I found strange. I can get a 2220b from the original owner for around 110 bucks.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> It doesn't have any pre-outs, it's completely passive, which I found strange. I can get a 2220b from the original owner for around 110 bucks.


 
   
  It's relatively rare for classic receivers to have pre-out / power-in connections. They're far more common on integrated amps.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> It doesn't have any pre-outs, it's completely passive, which I found strange. I can get a 2220b from the original owner for around 110 bucks.


 

 I would dive all over that deal if the unit is in good shape.


----------



## Skylab

ardgedee said:


> It's relatively rare for classic receivers to have pre-out / power-in connections. They're far more common on integrated amps.




Hmmmm...maybe at the lower price models that is true, but EVERY one of my classic receivers has pre out/main in jacks (Marantz 2285, Pioneer 1280 and 1980, Sansui 9090DB). I also know that Marantz 2275 had them, as did Pioneer 1250.


----------



## ardgedee

One of my vintage receivers does (AR-1500), one doesn't (HK670). It seems to depend on the manufacturer and the model line.

It was a sweeping statement anyway -- when researching any specific model it's worth checking for. It does seem to be the rare integrated that doesn't have split in/out jacks.

Although in the spirit of contradicting sweeping statements: one of my integrateds has pre-out/amp-in connections (Fisher X-101-B), one doesn't (Scott 222-C). So.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

I'll probably jump on the deal, thanks guys. I'm still getting my turntable setup (first time owner) and haven't had a chance to test the KA-7100's preamp, but I haven't heard good things about it. At least if I enjoy it more than the Marantz I'll of had a reference point to compare it to.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Hmmmm...maybe at the lower price models that is true, but EVERY one of my classic receivers has pre out/main in jacks (Marantz 2285, Pioneer 1280 and 1980, Sansui 9090DB). I also know that Marantz 2275 had them, as did Pioneer 1250.


 

 Every vintage receiver I've owned also had pre/main in jacks as well which includes kenwood kr-9600, pioneer sx-1010, marantz 2325, and a marantz 2330B. So I'm sure many don't but I definitely wouldn't call it rare for a receiver to have those.
   
  GetsugarSSJ, that's not a bad price for the marantz, especially since it's a one owner and presumably mint. I can't speak for that particular model, but the preamp on the 2325 I use to have was very good, the one on my 2330B is even better. But those are totl models as well though. But both of my marantz have had very good preamps. Both of them were a good deal better than the one in the sansui au-517 I use to have.


----------



## Argybargy

Preamp on my 2230 is very good (recapped). Before recapping it was still good, but not as detailed. Definitely better than my hk730 or 930.


----------



## ironsurvivor

Update on my Sansui G9000DB guys. It was in non working condition because it all of a sudden died. It had worked not to long ago. Well i cracked it open and looked around and before it died it only played static on the right channel and no sound through the left channel. So i replaced two bad fuses and it worked and played clearly through the right channel and nothing on the left channel still, but then a few hours later it died again, nothing. and all the fuses were fine. Does anybody have any suggestions of what it might be? If you would like to help me, just PM me. Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

In order to help, we would need to have you describe the situation in more detail rather than just "it died". Do the lights come on, but no sound? No lights at all? Give as much info as you can. Better to post here than to take to PM...you will get more answers in the thread.


----------



## ironsurvivor

When i got it working for that couple hours the lights were all on and everything was functioning normally apart from it only outputting on the right channel. When it went out there were no lights or anything. I plugged headphones in to make sure and no sound at all. Nothing was connected to the amp except power of course and headphones. Im not an expert by any means on this.


----------



## Skylab

Well, no lights on would tend to indicate either the main fuses are blown, or there is a problem with the power supply board.  If you have checked the main fuses and they are for sure good, or if the fuses repeatedly blow, you need to have the power supply board examined by a competent technician.


----------



## ironsurvivor

I got a buddy who is an electrician that is going to take a look at it. Thanks a lot for the suggestion!


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





ironsurvivor said:


> I got a buddy who is an electrician that is going to take a look at it. Thanks a lot for the suggestion!


 
  If you are interested in keeping this unit I would take it to a reputable vintage stereo repair shop. Most big cities have one. That is a nice top tier unit with a ton of power and is worth restoring/repairing for sure.


----------



## ironsurvivor

Ill look for a shop,but i dont know if there will be anything in oklahoma.


----------



## Rawrbington

what part of OK are you in?


----------



## ironsurvivor

Norman


----------



## Rawrbington

i've got a marantz in the shop right now in okc
  i should be getting it back this week.
   
  i'll let you know how it turns out
   
  i kinda know the guys that own the shop.  they do good work but vintage receivers hasn't been their target market thus far.  they mainly work on musicians equipment, amps, pa's and the like.  But they are good and eager to build their business.  So we'll see how they feel about the vintage stuff when they finish up mine. 
   
  and then theres and option in Enid.  He's a retired guy that does good work.  but its in enid.
   
  I'll keep you posted.
   
   
  also
  out of curiosity
  do you know Steve up on Classen or Mark in Shawnee?


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


>


 

 You are one post away from four digits, my man.


----------



## Flume

Don't know if you guys in Oklahoma saw the guy in Lawton with the 2000 records, Sony speakers, Marantz receiver, and Pioneer turntable on craigslist. I called the guy and the turntable is a Pioneer pl-520, receiver is a Marantz 2226b, and he couldn't find a model number on the speakers. It's hard not to make the hour and a half drive there...


----------



## Silent One

Just logged on. After reading Page 373, the only thing I'm waiting to hear next is the sound of Keith Jackson's voice.


----------



## Flume

Haha, it is a little odd. What would a 2226b be worth if it was in decent condition?


----------



## Rawrbington

i haven't heard the 2226B but i've heard the 2226.
  it sounds alot like the 2238 and 2235B
  Not worth 350 but i you could offer him 100$ just for the receiver and see what happens.
   
  are you in okc area also?
  thats like 4 people ive come accross on here in 2 days that live in the area
   
  ahah 1000th post oldskool!
   
  is the keith jackson reference because of Sooner football?
  im an OSU cowboy.
  i just happen to live in Norman.
  i catch a lot of flack for it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i haven't heard the 2226B but i've heard the 2226.
> it sounds alot like the 2238 and 2235B
> Not worth 350 but i you could offer him 100$ just for the receiver and see what happens.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





flume said:


> Haha, it is a little odd. What would a 2226b be worth if it was in decent condition?


 

 With a near mint appearance and in perfect working order $200 would be near the high end and $150 would be a decent deal. These are tremendously well made units.
   
   
  Was listening to my 2220B last night, Dire Straits-Sultans of Swing. Sounds just fantastic flat-no tone adjustments. Hit the loudness button and your socks just get knocked off. The nicest tone improvement I have heard on any receiver.


----------



## OldSkool

That sounds about right. I think I gave $229 for my Marantz 2226B and it was in great shape cosmetically with no issues.
   
  I recently moved my 2216B (baby Marantz) into a spare bedroom where it powers a pair of Infinity RS-9 pretty well. My 2226B sits in my home office and drives HE-500s very well from the HP jack.
   
  I suppose I prefer the all-silver face models.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> That sounds about right. I think I gave $229 for my Marantz 2226B and it was in great shape cosmetically with no issues.
> 
> I recently moved my 2216B (baby Marantz) into a spare bedroom where it powers a pair of Infinity RS-9 pretty well. My 2226B sits in my home office and drives HE-500s very well from the HP jack.
> 
> I suppose I prefer the all-silver face models.


 

 I have always wanted a pair of Infinitys with the Emit tweeter. How are they?


----------



## Flume

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i haven't heard the 2226B but i've heard the 2226.
> it sounds alot like the 2238 and 2235B
> Not worth 350 but i you could offer him 100$ just for the receiver and see what happens.
> 
> ...


 
  The 2000 records are tempting me as well...
   
  I'm in Norman.


----------



## ironsurvivor

Look like we got a couple people from Norman along with me. I cant find the craigslist thing. Anyone shoot me a link?


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> I have always wanted a pair of Infinitys with the Emit tweeter. How are they?


 

 I think you are thinking of the RS-7. The RS-9 has a round Polycell tweeter which, unfortunately, doesn't sound nearly as sweet as the EMIT.


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of Kappa 6's, with the EMIT tweeter and the Polydome midrange, and they are absolutely amazing sounding.  It's actually shocking how good they are.  They need a good powerful amp, but used with one of my SX-1980's, they are superb.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> I think you are thinking of the RS-7. The RS-9 has a round Polycell tweeter which, unfortunately, doesn't sound nearly as sweet as the EMIT.


 
  Ah, my mistake.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Ah, my mistake.


 

 No, it's actually my mistake for not buying a pair of Infinity Kappas before Skylab drives the price of them all thru the roof.


----------



## moodyrn

I decided to pass on the sx-1080 I talked about last week. If I'm going to drive 2 hours for something it might as well be something more like this.....
   

   
   
   

   

   

   
  I'm a proud new member of the exclusive ka-907 club. Sonically, it surpasses anything I've owned. That's both modern and vintage. And I've own some pretty amazing stuff over the years.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I decided to pass on the sx-1080 I talked about last week. If I'm going to drive 2 hours for something it might as well be something more like this.....
> 
> I'm a proud new member of the exclusive ka-907 club. Sonically, it surpasses anything I've owned. That's both modern and vintage. And I've own some pretty amazing stuff over the years.


 
   
  moodyrn, the candy displayed is so sweet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I got a toothache!


----------



## Skylab

Wow that is one awesome looking Kenny!  Congrats buddy.  Sweet.


----------



## moodyrn

One thing that really caught my attention when I was researching this was the fact that It had a stand alone discrete headphone amp. It was more of a concern. The thing that makes vintage gear headphone amps so special is that fact that are derived off the speaker taps, so you're getting the same quality sound with headphones as with speakers. Then I thought maybe it won't be too bad since it's still being fed by the massive dual trannies and over-built dual power supplies. But then a few other things grabbed my attention. The headphone amp is a moving coil headphone amp. What! I've never heard of such a thing. Sure I know about moving coil when it comes to phono preamps, but never heard of a moving coil headphone amp.
   
  Also it uses discrete output stages, low noise resistors, and mulitple negative feedback stages. But I really got this to power my stax lambda sigs through the speaker taps. So the headphone out wasn't as important. But I have to say, the headphone out is the best solid state headphone amp I've ever listened to. And that includes the darkstar, and the beta. The preamp is just phenominal, and on par with a separate highend preamps. I can plugin my very sensitive jh13, turn the volume to max, and hear nothing. No hiss or noise what so ever. Just a black hole when it comes to background. It's like they are not even plugged in. It's the same with my also highly sensitive w3000. At the same time, it powers my he6 as well as anything I've heard short of speaker taps. This is one impressive amplifier!!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow that is one awesome looking Kenny!  Congrats buddy.  Sweet.


 

 Thanks Skylab.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I decided to pass on the sx-1080 I talked about last week. If I'm going to drive 2 hours for something it might as well be something more like this.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Wow, I am sending you the bill for my dry cleaning, I just ruined my pants. I recall some of the dual power amps from Kenwood but this is the nicest example I have seen. Love the rack handles. That beast just looks insane! May I ask what that cost?


----------



## moodyrn

Sure, a cool 300.00. I remember someone several pages back paying 500.00. I thought at the time that was highway robbery. I've seen them go for as much as 1500.00. Saw it once as a buy it now for 1900.00 on ebay(but there are a lot of insane prices on ebay for vintage gear), but I think that one was refurbished though. It's the absolute best I've heard my he6. Well that's also with every can I have for that matter.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Sure, a cool 300.00. I remember someone several pages back paying 500.00. I thought at the time that was highway robbery. I've seen them go for as much as 1500.00. Saw it once as a buy it now for 1900.00 on ebay(but there are a lot of insane prices on ebay for vintage gear), but I think that one was refurbished though. It's the absolute best I've heard my he6. Well that's also with every can I have for that matter.


 

 Darn that is a killer deal. It's an investment. Congratulations.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Sure, a cool 300.00. I remember someone several pages back paying 500.00. I thought at the time that was highway robbery. I've seen them go for as much as 1500.00. Saw it once as a buy it now for 1900.00 on ebay(but there are a lot of insane prices on ebay for vintage gear), but I think that one was refurbished though. It's the absolute best I've heard my he6. Well that's also with every can I have for that matter.


 
   
  OMG!  You legally stole it 
   
  And that's very cool about the special headphone amp section being so good.  That's a real prize.


----------



## Argybargy

HK 730 completely recapped, new binding posts and RCA jacks.
  MAC (AIFF/Fidelia) > NOS DAC > Tube Preamp > HK730 > HE500
  My best sounding setup for headphones.


----------



## moodyrn

That's a really nice looking hk. That and the yamahas are the only two big brand vintages I haven't listened to yet. But would love too, since my very first 3 modern receivers were all hk's many years ago. With a tube preamp, nos dac, and the hk, I bet that's one musical, analog sounding rig!


----------



## Argybargy

Smooooth and euphonic.  Sarah McLachlan never sounded so good.
   
  Got the 730 for $55 plus shipping due to a busted push button which I replaced from a donor 330C.  It sounded timid and restrained initially, but after a recap, Wow! The twin transformers really feed the bass notes; big soundstage; lots of headroom for complex passages.
   
  Best value in vintage receivers IMO.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, that's quiet arguable. There are great values everywhere when it comes to vintage gear. You still have the sansui, pioneer, yamahas etc of the world. Many will tell you even something like an sx650 easily competes with 1000.00 headphone amps. That's why I love this hobby so much.


----------



## Argybargy

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol, that's quiet arguable. There are great values everywhere when it comes to vintage gear. You still have the sansui, pioneer, yamahas etc of the world. Many will tell you even something like an sx650 easily competes with 1000.00 headphone amps. That's why I love this hobby so much.


 
  Very true.  I'm itching to try out a Sansui 4000 or 5000.  I remember enjoying the sound of a low powered Sansui (can't recall the model) in a wooden case back when I was young and poor.
   
  Too bad, space is so limited.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, the largest disadvantage other than age and maintaince is the size of these beasts.


----------



## Rawrbington

that kenny is awesome.
   
  any idea which ka models have the independent hp amps?


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks. I looked at the service manual of their other high end models(9100, and the supreme series 500, 600, 650), and none of them have it. So I believe it maybe the only one unless someone wants to correct me that have knowledge of another model.


----------



## doco

found this in a Habitat for Humanity store in california @ $10. sony gx90es. not much information except it costed about $1000 in 1990. i'm just thankful it still works!


----------



## moodyrn

Wow sony es for 10.00. That's 99% off the original retail. Not bad. There's a thrift store here that has the matching cd player for 35.00, but I passed since it was before the sacd era. I might go see if they still have it.


----------



## AuralRelations

Came across this ad for a Pioneer SX-950 on Craigslist today: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/3174090819.html
   
  Those blue LEDs are awful...


----------



## Skylab

No kidding! Who would do that to a Pioneer????? Blue is for Marantz and some Sansui.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





auralrelations said:


> Came across this ad for a Pioneer SX-950 on Craigslist today: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/3174090819.html
> 
> Those blue LEDs are awful...


 
  Puked a bit right there....


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





doco said:


> found this in a Habitat for Humanity store in california @ $10. sony gx90es. not much information except it costed about $1000 in 1990. i'm just thankful it still works!


 
  Thats the last ES 2 channel receiver from Sony. Very well made. Copper back, alpine pots, 120 watts into 8 ohms. Nice score!!!!!!!!


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Bleh, Marantz 2220 deal fell through. Anyone have suggestions for a good vintage preamp/receiver with preamp? I'll probably test drive my KA-7100's phono section when my table arrives on monday, but I'd like a backup in case the sound doesn't live up to my expectations. I'm looking at other Marantz receivers and some of their preamps (3200-3600) which are no doubt nice but pricey. I've no real power requirements, since I'm using headphones, though I would like headroom in case I do end up going that route in the future. I don't care about the brand as long as it's silver-faced, lmao. I love me silver faced vintage equipment.


----------



## Skylab

What price range would you like to be in?


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What price range would you like to be in?


 
   
  Around 300, I can stretch a little if needed.


----------



## Skylab

Well, assuming you live in the US, you should be able to get Pioneer SX 850, 950, 880, or 980 for around that - all fine choices.  Lots of Marantz 22xx receivers often sell in that price range, too.  And you could probably even score a Sansui 8080 for that.  I bought my original Sansui 9090 for $300 on CL.  Also bought a sweet SX-980 for my brother for that.  I bought a 2240 that needed a little cleaning work but nothing more than that for $100!  Just requires patience.


----------



## Rocko1

I would shoot for one level below top of the line as those go for so much more usually for a few watts more.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

I was thinking the same about the pioneer series, they usually pop up on Craigslist from time to time I just wasn't sure about their preamp section, thanks a bunch!


----------



## Philimon

This is after I first hooked the MMGs up. I really can't do much for placement at moment. For $400 these things are awesome. *Using the 1ohm resistor.

  (click to embiggen)


----------



## WiR3D

Got the 2270 (refurbed) got them with some random chinese sansui badged bargain speakers and STX as a source, until my dads MusicHall mmf-5.1 arrives. really awesum. $800 well spent


----------



## Rawrbington

Any of you know about old tt cartridges?
I had found a pioneer pl 5something from early 70s
Well it died. Or was DOA.
Took it to the dr months ago and he couldn't fix it. Tried everything and just thinks the servo gave up the ghost.

I also hAve a yam yp d4 tt that I got mainly cause it had a decent cart on it. It's the audio technica 95E. Anywa yeah the AT cart is nice. Good enough for me.

Well the pioneer came with a Shure Bros hitrack m something. I kept the cart and head shell and in my boredom today I stuck it on the yam tt. Aligned and balanced. I'll be darned if that cart isn't awesome.

It's got a nice thick sound compared to the AT and is very smooth while still detailed without a hint of distortion or sibilence. How is that possible? This thing was in some bodies attic for 30 years. We're talking serious heat. It was 115 degrees today and that's out in the breeze,my attics probably 140. So 30 years of that. And it still sounds awesome. Though I did replace its stylus.

Just another piece of vintage love from me.
Anybody know the cart off the top of their head and would it be worth putting a better needle on it? The one I put on was the cheapest one I could find cause I didn't know if it even worked at the time.


Wired, I hope to get my recapped 2270 home this weekend. I'm just plain jealous of you right now


----------



## Skylab

Shure certainly made many fine cartridges. The whole model number would be kind of important to make any detailed comments, but if you think I sounds good, that's all that matters!


----------



## Rawrbington

I got up to look cause the curiosity was killing me.

HITRACK M91E

This throws me off because isn't that a current modern cart?
Cause this one clearly says shure brothers which they haven't been for years. I'm kinda more confused now


----------



## MohawkUS

I've got a Shure hitrack on my Dual 1209 which is unfortunately not running right now. I don't have many specifics on the carts but I do know that many people who buy vintage tables like to leave the hitracks on and performance wise they should be around the performance if not better of the $80 Shure cart that's available now(the name escapes me). Unfortunately for me, I think the suspension is out in my cart, it rides very low and it real muddy sounding of course it could just be a stylus issue. Whatever it is, the $20 AT cart I have at the moment sounds better. I'm sure it would be the better cart if I got it repaired though, the build quality of it seems a few notches over the cheap AT.

I've been curious about something as well. Anyone here interested in 'vintage' gaming? I use the term lightly because I'm talking games from the 90s where gear from the 90s isn't quite that old yet. I just got finished playing Duke Nukem 3D and I was thinking of how much better(IMO) it is compared to a lot of modern games. 'They don't make them like they used to'  I already feel old and I'm barely out of high school.

Also, the Sherwood 7800 I mentioned however long ago, Fedex trashed it on the way here hence why I never replied. And doing a shoot out between a restored piece of gear and two unrestored pieces just seemed like something you guys would yell at me for and for good reason.  The aux was the only working input on the 7800, and I really get the whole point of restored gear now. My headphones aren't what's light on bass or overly bright, it's my amp. I think this time I'm just going to pick up something unrestored and get it worked on locally, less chance of one of the shipping companies totaling it that way. Anyone know any good technicians near or in CT?


----------



## Silent One

You persevered...good for you!


----------



## Skylab

The M91ED is not a current model, no. But it was a pretty decent pickup in its day. If the needle is new and you like the sound, certainly nothing to be embarrassed about! I like Shure carts. I have a V-15 V and an M95HE, both very nice.


----------



## OJNeg

I have an older Grado Silver. Great cart.


----------



## BGRoberts

I know it's not a "integrated/receiver", but does anyone have any experience with the Dynaco ST70?
  I'm toying with the idea of getting one as my first full-size tube amp.
  Would a Little Dot MKIII work as a pre-amp for starting out?
  Thanks!
  BG


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> I know it's not a "integrated/receiver", but does anyone have any experience with the Dynaco ST70?
> I'm toying with the idea of getting one as my first full-size tube amp.
> Would a Little Dot MKIII work as a pre-amp for starting out?
> Thanks!
> BG


 
   
  Are you looking into getting a vintage restored Dynaco? Look into the Dynakit; you get the parts and build it from scratch.
   
  http://www.dynakitparts.com/store/catalog.aspx?cid=1


----------



## BGRoberts

Interesting.....
  Thanks for the link!


----------



## Skylab

I have owned both stock and modded Stereo 70s in the past. Nice amp. Dynaco sold huge amounts of them, so they've stayed pretty affordable, and as OJNeg said, lots and lots of ways to mod them. I think Audio By VanAlstine still sells upgrade kits for them as well. I had a VanAlstine modded ST70 for my whole college years and 4-5 years after, beautiful sounding.


----------



## WiR3D

My dads 2270 refurbed.
   
  Still waiting on the Musichall MMF-5.1  and the HD650, personally I don't like the SS with the D7000..... 
   
  Chilling in my flat for now.
   

   
   
  Sounds amazing, like seriously, we had some issues with the bass on the "Sansui" speakers causing crazy vibrations, and until I get new carpets... yeah hobo solution, but it works, and raises the speakers to ear level.


----------



## OldSkool

Sweet 2270, WiR3D!!!
   
  I'll bet the HD650s will sound terrific!


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Any of you know about old tt cartridges?





> ... Well the pioneer came with a Shure Bros hitrack [M91E]. ... I'll be darned if that cart isn't awesome. It's got a nice thick sound compared to the AT[95E] and is very smooth while still detailed without a hint of distortion or sibilence. How is that possible? This thing was in some bodies attic for 30 years. We're talking serious heat. It was 115 degrees today and that's out in the breeze,my attics probably 140. So 30 years of that. And it still sounds awesome. Though I did replace its stylus.
> Anybody know the cart off the top of their head and would it be worth putting a better needle on it?


 
  This was my first cartridge, and yes, it's been out of production for years. When it hit the market in 1969, it was second banana to the mighty V15 Type II. For the price, and at that time, it was amazingly good. The M91E revealed something on LPs I'd never heard before: tape hiss.
   
  Technically, as you might expect from something this old, the M91E is completely out of date, though certainly usable, and many people still find it makes the soundtrack of their lives sound just right. So what if the response curve isn't flat? Flat, schmat. Your speakers aren't flat. Your _room_ isn't flat. If it sounds good, it *is* good, but you know you've crossed the line into audiophilerasty when your immediate question is a frantic "Yes, but could it sound _*better *_??" Don't go there.
   
  A cartridge body baking in a 140-degree F attic will not be damaged, but a stylus certainly will, and it's the stylus that actually digs the sound out of the grooves, so it's not amazing that the cart sounds okay-- you tossed the part that got cooked.
   
  Yes, it's worth putting a better stylus on it. The jack of all trades M97 series, one of which is still in production and easy to find, will fill in nicely and provide several technical improvements (the N97xE stylus is the one to look for). Beyond that, it gets absolutely Easter-egg-hunt spendy nutty crazy. Best not to ask unless you like spending $170 for a stylus. Heh heh.
   


skylab said:


> I have a V-15 V and an M95HE, both very nice.


 
  Which V have you got? which stylus?
   
  Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Sounds amazing, like seriously, we had some issues with the bass on the "Sansui" speakers causing crazy vibrations, and until I get new carpets... yeah hobo solution, but it works, and raisis the speakers to ear level.


 
  It's always good to have the tweeters at ear level. If the speaker's a two-way, getting the woof-mid at ear level helps too. The bass problem is exaggerated when the speaker is buried in the corner, as in your photo. Getting it up off the floor helps, but pulling it about a foot away from the corner will help too. A speaker in a corner basically turns the room into a horn and activates all the room's resonances, many of which are, you guessed it, in the bass, and that makes life miserable for your turntable. Remember: speaker placement, like FM reception, is often a game of inches.


----------



## Skylab

I'm not really sure what gen my V-15 V is. It's for sure prior to MR. And it's the original Shure stylus that came with it. Probably 200-300 hours or so on it.


----------



## Silent One

_On the heels of discussion, a few short questions..._
   
  I own a Gemini PT-2000 III with a Shure White Label cart. Thinking about upgrading the cart a bit. Lipstick on a pig? Also, my SX-D7000 features both MM & MC. Is my TT able to accept either?


----------



## Skylab

Your turntable doesn't care about MM vs MC. The compliance of the cartridge does need to be somewhat matched to the mass of the tonearm, though.

I wouldn't spend a huge sum on a new cartridge for that TT, but something like the Shure M97xe would probably be a nice upgrade.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Skylab. I'm trying to avoid the investment, but a replacement TT has been delayed. Trying to achieve a small bump during the interim.


----------



## Argybargy

bgroberts said:


> I know it's not a "integrated/receiver", but does anyone have any experience with the Dynaco ST70?
> I'm toying with the idea of getting one as my first full-size tube amp.
> Would a Little Dot MKIII work as a pre-amp for starting out?
> Thanks!
> BG




Little dot mkiii has no dc blocking caps on the preamp outputs, so you should only use it with cap coupled receivers/integrateds.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





wualta said:


> It's always good to have the tweeters at ear level. If the speaker's a two-way, getting the woof-mid at ear level helps too. The bass problem is exaggerated when the speaker is buried in the corner, as in your photo. Getting it up off the floor helps, but pulling it about a foot away from the corner will help too. A speaker in a corner basically turns the room into a horn and activates all the room's resonances, many of which are, you guessed it, in the bass, and that makes life miserable for your turntable. Remember: speaker placement, like FM reception, is often a game of inches.


 
  I know that, it was an issue even when flat faced to the wall. its about a foot and a half out of the corner, it actually works very nicely, the low 40Hz and lower sub bass is boosted a lil bit, which is not a problem, and somewhat desirable, just placing the speakers on the Ottomans made a phenomenal difference, I'm trying to find something the right size I can use as a stand for the speakers (they are 3 way) and probably going to get some really really really thick carpet to put it on. 
   
  Cannot believe the clarity from these speakers, the amp I do believe, the El cheapo random speakers with a Sansui badge I cannot. Lacks a bit of midbass punch for me though.
   
  I need to take the amp out of my flat before I buy myself one... Talking of which I am in a position to get a NAD 3020e for next to nothing in great condition, barely used. Yay or nay?


----------



## Flume

After a few months of checking Craigslist, looking in thrift stores and keeping an eye out, I've found a Sansui 9090 and I think I can get it for free
If I can't get it for free, what should offer to someone that isn't interested in audio quality and doesn't listen to music much?

What is the 9090 like? Haven't read much about sansui


----------



## Skylab

The 9090 is a very fine receiver. It's on the warm side sonically. Typically they sell around $300-400 if in very good to excellent condition. If you can get one for $200 or less that is in good shape and doesn't immediately need work.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol that was true a short while ago. But for some reason these have skyrocketed, and so have the 8080. There was an 8080 in my area for 500.00, and I believe it eventually sold. There's a 9090 on ebay now for 1000.00, though I seriously doubt it will go for anywhere near that. I had my hopes set on one a while back, and one did come up for 300.00. But giving the recent prices, it was gone an hour after is was listed. I still want one though, so hopefully the prices will come back down to earth.


----------



## Flume

Wow. I'm definitely not in a good situation to listen to the amp but I used my phone just to see how it sounded. There is a noticeable buzz even when the volume is completely down and a couple of lamps are out. Obviously there are potentiometer scratching. Anything else I should look for? It's a family members received and I'll be around it for a week or so.

Edit: there is also an issue with the source selection knob. It doesn't always play through both channels and I have to wiggle the knob to get it to stick. Any suggestions?


----------



## wualta

Start with contact cleaner on that selector knob.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol that was true a short while ago. But for some reason these have skyrocketed, and so have the 8080. There was an 8080 in my area for 500.00, and I believe it eventually sold. There's a 9090 on ebay now for 1000.00, though I seriously doubt it will go for anywhere near that. I had my hopes set on one a while back, and one did come up for 300.00. But giving the recent prices, it was gone an hour after is was listed. I still want one though, so hopefully the prices will come back down to earth.


 
  I was in on the 'ground floor' of the vintage audio market/eBay before it went nuts, 1999-2002. You get get some insane deals before the word really got out. Now it's just crazy. I sold a 9090DB in 2000 for $100. Bought a Marantz 2020B in Mint condition for $70- I thought that was high!, etc. $100 would get you a almost perfect Pioneer, Sansui, Onkyo, Luxman, etc., receiver in the 20-60 watt per channel range, now, forget it. It's just not the same.


----------



## jnb56

What is your guys opinion on the Yamaha Natural Sound CR-820 receiver priced at $175?


----------



## Silent One

Condition?


----------



## jnb56

Seller says good working condition. Pictures looked clean and didn't have much in the way of visible damage that I could see,


----------



## calipilot227

Found one on eBay for $125 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Yamaha-CR820-AM-FM-Stereo-Receiver-Nice-/120961837077?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D1264733319635258613%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26#ht_500wt_1167


----------



## jnb56

Would you say a receiver like that is good for someone just getting into the vinyl scene? I don't mind upgrading down the road if I get more serious.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Anyone have experience with Vandersteen speakers? I have a chance at getting a pair of Vandersteen 2c's and was wondering if my KA-7100 is enough to drive them.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





jnb56 said:


> Would you say a receiver like that is good for someone just getting into the vinyl scene? I don't mind upgrading down the road if I get more serious.


 
  Yes, definitely


----------



## jnb56

Got myself a Panasonic re-7670 for free today. Pretty good cosmetic condition and fully functional. I think I might pop the wood off and have a look inside. I don't know much about it other than it was a cheaper model but it will suit my needs just fine.


----------



## Skylab

Well, if it works, it's hard to beat free


----------



## 5aces

getsugassj said:


> Anyone have experience with Vandersteen speakers? I have a chance at getting a pair of Vandersteen 2c's and was wondering if my KA-7100 is enough to drive them.




Vandersteen 2C loudspeaker Amplifier requirements: *40-160 Wpc.*

KA-7100: *2x 60W* (RMS, 8 Ohm, 20Hz...20Khz)

Easy speaker to drive and respond well to more power,if you upgrade your amplifier.
You will have to dial the volume up using your Kenwood amplifier but no matter with the Vandy's flat impedance curve.
I enjoy those speakers and would select them again,don't miss your chance,they like tube amps also...
Atma-Sphere M-60 tube mono blocks @ 60 watts into 8 Ohms sound very nice with these,on the high end of the amp spectrum.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





jnb56 said:


> Seller says good working condition. Pictures looked clean and didn't have much in the way of visible damage that I could see,


 
  They go for around $100 on ebay.


----------



## Rawrbington

Going to pick up my 2270 today. It's been waiting on me for a week. Also scored a pioneer pl 550 today in very good condition. There's a few mars on the veneer but they are all on the back. Got it for 65 bucks. It's gonna a long mating session with the 2270 tonight. Can't wait


----------



## Skylab

Wow, $65 for a PL-550 is an amazing score.


----------



## pelli

I picked up an Optonica (premium Sharp line, mid 70's) SM-7035 a few months ago for $50.  Thus far it has been a great integrated amp.  I haven't gotten a chance to give the headphone out much use yet as I have had other toys to play with.  I paired it with some DCM Timeframe TF-500 speakers and a sub and am loving the sound!  I can't find much info on Optonica online, but the build quality and sound are still holding up 40 years later...  They did something right!  Can anybody tell me about the guts of this thing?  I am no EE..
   
  t


----------



## Skylab

As you indicate, Optonica made very nice gear. I had an Optonica integrated for a while, amazingly well made and sounded great. It's an off-brand that can be a tremendous bargain.


----------



## Rawrbington

skylab said:


> Wow, $65 for a PL-550 is an amazing score.




Sweet! I dont know much about it. Just that it's big and heavy and looked nice. No auto return is the only downside. I'm not a big fan of full auto but I do like auto return. Just swapped my m91ed onto the head shell for it. After a slight connection mix up it sounds really good. Liking it more than my Yamaha TT.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Sweet! I dont know much about it. Just that it's big and heavy and looked nice. No auto return is the only downside. I'm not a big fan of full auto but I do like auto return. Just swapped my m91ed onto the head shell for it. After a slight connection mix up it sounds really good. Liking it more than my Yamaha TT.


 
  Pics would be awesome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Might be more appropriate in the turntable thread, but I'm sure they'd be welcome here.


----------



## Rawrbington

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
   
  went to pick up the 2270 at my buddies shop.  we put it on the scope to push it...
  and the same popping sound that led me to take it to them in the first place showed back up




   
  they recapped the power supply, main filter caps and both amp boards along with the service bulletin mod.  and replaced differential input matched pair on both amp boards.  we assumed they were the issue causing the popping.  obviously not.  im really sad, but i know i wasn't the most upset person in the room.  my buddy that did 90% of the work was the saddest.  cause he's the kind of guy  that won't stop until its fixed.  I know this thing had been his albatross for the last few weeks.  he took the job because it was out of his comfort zone and had battled it for the first 2 weeks.  but he said then he really got used to the workings of these things.  he mainly specializes in repairing PA systems, pedals, mixing boards and guitar/bass guitar amps.  But the good thing is he is good.  very good.  so i have no doubt that he'll figure it out.  I really felt bad for him. 
   
  while i was there they seemed to be able to quickly start narrowing down other possibilities.  hopefully i'll get her back this weekend.
   


   
  there's the PL550.  So far it sounds great except i screwed up either the original headshell or the Shure M91ED cart or stylus or all three trying to change it over to the original head shell for the 550.
   
  not the best luck today.  but i did get a decent new TT.  so not all is lost i guess


----------



## Silent One

We're pulling for him to work it out; retain his pride.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


>


 
  That is one beautiful TT


----------



## Rawrbington

Thanks! 
The anticipation of hearing it with my 2270 might kill me
My 2235B is having to hold me over for now


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Thanks!
> The anticipation of hearing it with my 2270 might kill me
> My 2235B is having to hold me over for now


 
  I have jacked my dads 2270 until the rest of the stuff arrives... Using my STX as a source and my Denons... HOLY !@#$%^& I really like what I hear


----------



## Rocko1

Yup. I don't know of any other almost 40lb, 70 watt receivers that hold a candle to the 2270.


----------



## trentino

I'm also very satisfied with the M2270. I've actually stopped visiting Head-Fi daily since I got the M2270/LCD2R2-combo. Which I do not like, at all! But I guess it shows that I really enjoy my M2270


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> went to pick up the 2270 at my buddies shop.  we put it on the scope to push it...
> and the same popping sound that led me to take it to them in the first place showed back up


 
  "Push it" ? How do you mean?


----------



## Rawrbington

turn up the volume, tone pots while on the scope to make sure at high output it was still giving nice flat waves


----------



## pentatonic

Well after reading so many threads on headamps and looking forward to one, I decided to get my circa 1975 H/K 330B out of the closet to use as a headamp in the meantime. Now I'm kicking myself for not doing it earlier. My vintage K340 electrostats have never sounded so good. I'm still looking for the sub. At 10 o'clock the bass just gets so deep. Great low extension. Mid-bass packs a real kick. Real tight. The mids and highs are, well just outstanding  (though that was never an issue) At 11 it's like you can feel it. Past that it's just way too loud though still awesome sounding. The cans needed good power but I really didn't thing a receiver would be so good.
   
  As for my FA-011s, well deep bass is even deeper, but it brings out everything I love about them. Surpisingly the mids are what get's the best improvement. One amp for both, I'm a happy camper


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> turn up the volume, tone pots while on the scope to make sure at high output it was still giving nice flat waves


 
  Hm. It's possible the protection circuit was breaking in to save the output transistors; if the amp was driving speakers instead of dummy loads (big power resistors), the probability of protection-circuit intervention increases.


----------



## captouch

Any thoughts/opinions on a Kenwood KR-6060 for ~$50 or a Sony STR-7065 for $140?

Are these units well regarded and prices reasonable. Not much here on Headfi, but the Sony seems well thought of and both prices seem pretty reasonable to me.

Thanks.


----------



## Rawrbington

i don't know much about either one, but i have heard some of the old Kenny's and they are all very good.  and at 50 bucks you really can't go wrong if it works.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Any thoughts/opinions on a Kenwood KR-6060 for ~$50 or a Sony STR-7065 for $140?
> Are these units well regarded and prices reasonable. Not much here on Headfi, but the Sony seems well thought of and both prices seem pretty reasonable to me.
> Thanks.


 

 Both great units. The Sony was TOTL for it's model line and is build like a tank. It's from around 1974. Only info I could find on the Kenwood is 65 watts per channel but I am not 100%. If the Kenwood is in clean shape and both work fine I would pick the Kenwood.


----------



## captouch

rawrbington said:


> i don't know much about either one, but i have heard some of the old Kenny's and they are all very good.  and at 50 bucks you really can't go wrong if it works.





rocko1 said:


> Both great units. The Sony was TOTL for it's model line and is build like a tank. It's from around 1974. Only info I could find on the Kenwood is 65 watts per channel but I am not 100%. If the Kenwood is in clean shape and both work fine I would pick the Kenwood.




Thanks guys, really appreciate the comments. The were from two different sellers and I was able to meet the Kenwood seller this afternoon and bought that for $50. Pretty great condition and just hooked up some cheap speakers to verify it works, which it does - except A+B output option for some reason doesn't output on either A or B even though each of A and B outputs independently - I suppose I could DeOx the knob, though not a whole lot of scratchiness on the knobs in general. Checked offsets and L is under 10mV, but right is a little marginal at 35-38mV. So little out there on this unit that it may be a bit of a struggle to find out how to tweak the offset down on the right channel, but can run it like this and still be okay I think.

Here are some pics:




Will try these out with speaker taps on my Hifimans in a bit. (The back says 4-16ohm speaker range, but my understanding was that as long as it's not a tube amp, I could go higher without a problem, so I'm assuming I'm safe.)


----------



## blur510

Any HD800 users here? I am thinking about getting one, but will only get one if it will synergize well with my receivers Pioneer sx 1010 and Sansui G7000. thanks


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Thanks guys, really appreciate the comments. The were from two different sellers and I was able to meet the Kenwood seller this afternoon and bought that for $50. Pretty great condition and just hooked up some cheap speakers to verify it works, which it does - except A+B output option for some reason doesn't output on either A or B even though each of A and B outputs independently - I suppose I could DeOx the knob, though not a whole lot of scratchiness on the knobs in general. Checked offsets and L is under 10mV, but right is a little marginal at 35-38mV. So little out there on this unit that it may be a bit of a struggle to find out how to tweak the offset down on the right channel, but can run it like this and still be okay I think.
> Here are some pics:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Nice deal! Here is some info on DC offset. http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5634


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Thanks guys, really appreciate the comments. The were from two different sellers and I was able to meet the Kenwood seller this afternoon and bought that for $50. Pretty great condition and just hooked up some cheap speakers to verify it works, which it does - except A+B output option for some reason doesn't output on either A or B even though each of A and B outputs independently - I suppose I could DeOx the knob, though not a whole lot of scratchiness on the knobs in general. Checked offsets and L is under 10mV, but right is a little marginal at 35-38mV. So little out there on this unit that it may be a bit of a struggle to find out how to tweak the offset down on the right channel, but can run it like this and still be okay I think.
> Here are some pics:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  35-38 mV is not too bad.  If it sounds good and is not running noticeably hotter on the side with the higher offset, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Rawrbington

Fantastic looking unit you got there captouch.
  Heck of a score!


----------



## Flume

Terrible pictures but I got a Sansui 9090 for free. Haven't listened through speakers yet but there is a very audible electrical hum through the headphones and the receiver gets really hot on the metal parts. How hot should it be? I used an infrared thermometer and read about 115F.
   

   
   
  Also, the lights will only light up if the selector switch is between aux and am settings.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





flume said:


> Terrible pictures but I got a Sansui 9090 for free. Haven't listened through speakers yet but there is a very audible electrical hum through the headphones and the receiver gets really hot on the metal parts. How hot should it be?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Get it checked out before you use it. Sounds like you may have a short somewhere. Worth fixing though, definitely.


----------



## ZorgDK

Does anyone have experience with a Pioneer 120w A88X. It's from 1985 with dual mono and 3 transformers. according to seller it's in good condition. Does it does it sound like a good HE-6 amp, better than say a new PM6004 Marantz? I put in a bid for 250$.


----------



## Skylab

calipilot227 said:


> Get it checked out before you use it. Sounds like you may have a short somewhere. Worth fixing though, definitely.




Agree completely. Something definitely is wrong, but since you got it free, it for sure is worth spending a little to get it working. 9090DBs are going for $500-900 on eBay these days depending on condition.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





flume said:


> Terrible pictures but I got a Sansui 9090 for free. Haven't listened through speakers yet but there is a very audible electrical hum through the headphones and the receiver gets really hot on the metal parts. How hot should it be? I used an infrared thermometer and read about 115F.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  9090 is  a beast and worth fixing. Unplug all inputs to receiver, put input to AUX, turn volume to 0 and loudness off. Make sure speakers A are selected only. CAREFULLY with a multi-meter, put the red lead on the right speakers + and black lead on the right speakers -. Report back on the voltage. Should be 50mv or less. I have a feeling you have much much higher reading. And do not hook up speakers until you have done this-could blow them.


----------



## captouch

Here's a picture of the inside of the KR-6060 I just picked up.  The picture is big, so don't click on it unless you want to see a 12MP image.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
  While I have it open, I was going to DeOxit a bit, but I haven't done these two way toggle switches.  Do I spray in the single hole in the metal on the bottom/horizontal surface, or the two black holes on the vertical?
   

   
  And for the Power Dial (switches between Off, Phones, A, B, A+B), do I spray in the front gold portion (near the front of the receiver), or the gray plastic box nearer to the inside of the receiver where the power is connected?
   

   
  Newbie questions, but I just don't want to spray in the wrong area and damage something.  Thanks.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Here's a picture of the inside of the KR-6060 I just picked up.  The picture is big, so don't click on it unless you want to see a 12MP image.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Spray in both when in doubt but you want to spray where you have metal to metal contact. Hard to tell with pictures. I usually spray  short blasts in the switch holes and work them back and forth 10-20x. Then wait 5 minutes and power up.


----------



## captouch

Uh-oh, looks like my Kenwood KR-6060 has a problem.  Maybe that's why they sold it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  First noticed it when I powered it up and it was plugged into the same power conditioner as the rest of my system.  My other components were powered on and I was playing a CD through my other amp.  
   
  When I powered up the Kenwood, the display lights flickered and while they were flickering, static/power (imagine Frankenstein getting his energizing jolts) sounds came out through my speakers (powered by the other amp) (independent of the pre-amp volume control).  Must have been feeding back thorough the power conditioner???  
   
  Once the Kenwood calms down (display lights steady and relay noise clicks), static/power sounds go away.
   
  Moved it to another outlet and tried several times to power up the Kenwood.  It always goes through this unstable period where lights are flickering (not sure what it's doing to the outlet since nothing else is plugged into the same outlet this time).  Variable amount of time, but the lights eventually go steady, but I did see it go back into the unsteady state with the lights going back into the unsteady/flickering state before becoming steady again.  Needless to say, I don't feel safe plugging anything into it at this point.
   
  Maybe the power supply/transformer?  Any other ideas (possibly loose connections to check) and thoughts whether such power-related problems are worth fixing or too major to be worthwhile?
   
  Anyone know anyone in the Bay Area (San Jose, etc) who might be able to take a look and diagnose?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Flume

Just measure the DC offset. The right channel has ~15-20 mV but the left channel has ~180.


----------



## Skylab

180 mV is definitely too high. You will need to see if find the owners manual and see how to adjust it.


----------



## Rawrbington

http://akdatabase.com/AKview/albums/userpics/10004/Sansui%209090%208080%20Service.pdf

Here's the manual
I'd check the bias as well.


----------



## Rocko1

Yeah, anything under 30 is good. Don't try to adjust offset unless you know what you are doing. Too valuable of a receiver.


----------



## Flume

When I used the headphone jack I could here a very obvious electrical hum when the volume is all the way down. Capacitor issue? It's on both sides as far as I can hear... Probably going to hook it up to the oscilloscope tomorrow.


----------



## Kayrie

Hey guys. Just joined because I love old receivers, fairly new to the audio world. I'm a college student so I don't have that much money to spend; anything within $150 would be good. I happened pick up an Onkyo TX-4500 MKII on eBay the other day and was wondering what are some of the better speakers/subs to pair it with. The kinds of music I listen to ranges from The Beatles, to Van Halen, to Yngwie Malmsteen, to stuff like Daft Punk, Justice (don't know what genera this type of music is called). I use a Fiio E7 as source to the receiver. Thank you for reading. Would Greatly appreciate the help. 
   
  I've read through some threads, but didn't to find a lot of informations on passive speakers, but rather self amped monitors/speakers.


----------



## wotts

I'm not sure if you saw this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/552257/calling-all-vintage-speaker-owners/
   
  I read through that and chose some speakers and started to learn what to look for.


----------



## Rawrbington

thoughts on the Kenwood KR 9050?
  i've got a chance to get one.  just have no idea what its worth.
  we've discussed a trade of my 8080  and a little cash.  probably 100 bucks.
  just don't know if its worth it


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thoughts on the Kenwood KR 9050?
> i've got a chance to get one.  just have no idea what its worth.
> we've discussed a trade of my 8080  and a little cash.  probably 100 bucks.
> just don't know if its worth it


 
   
  I have one in near mint cosmetic condition and no known electrical problems.  Probably unrefurbished.  Sounds great.  Paid $450 for it.


----------



## Skylab

I have never heard one, but the KR-9050 is a serious receiver. 200 wpc, weighing 50+ lbs. Massive toroidal transformer. I'm sure it's a nice piece.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I have one in near mint cosmetic condition and no known electrical problems.  Probably unrefurbished.  Sounds great.  Paid $450 for it.


 

 how would you compare it to a Pioneer SX or Sansui 8080/9090?


----------



## captouch

captouch said:


> Uh-oh, looks like my Kenwood KR-6060 has a problem.  Maybe that's why they sold it.
> 
> First noticed it when I powered it up and it was plugged into the same power conditioner as the rest of my system.  My other components were powered on and I was playing a CD through my other amp.
> 
> ...




Update: Fixed it. The Kenwood, like a few other brands like Pioneers of similar age, uses an ALPS VR-5 power switch that is prone to failure due to black build-up on the contacts that leads to power arcing and those symptoms of light flickering, static, and delayed starts. Eventually may just not turn on I suppose.

Accessing the switch wasn't a big deal on the KR-6060, though I understand it can be more involved on other models like some of the Pioneers that require front panel disassembly. But using some fine grit wet/dry sandpaper (1500 in my case), I was able to get the junk off and now it powers up consistently and quickly without any light flickering.

Just wanted to update in case any others are having start-up/power-on problems on receivers using that same ALPS switch.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how would you compare it to a Pioneer SX or Sansui 8080/9090?


 
   
  I have not listened to it enough through one set of cans to be able to say.  It is rated slightly more powerful than a SX-1280 and 2X+ more powerful than the 8080.  How that makes a HP sound probably means nothing.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Update: Fixed it. The Kenwood, like a few other brands like Pioneers of similar age, uses an ALPS VR-5 power switch that is prone to failure due to black build-up on the contacts that leads to power arcing and those symptoms of light flickering, static, and delayed starts. Eventually may just not turn on I suppose.
> Accessing the switch wasn't a big deal on the KR-6060, though I understand it can be more involved on other models like some of the Pioneers that require front panel disassembly. But using some fine grit wet/dry sandpaper (1500 in my case), I was able to get the junk off and now it powers up consistently and quickly without any light flickering.
> Just wanted to update in case any others are having start-up/power-on problems on receivers using that same ALPS switch.


 
  Nice job. I would treat all switches with Deoxit spray. It's simply the best contact cleaner/conditioner around.


----------



## Rocko1

The Kenwood is made from 1979 to prob. 1980 or 81. The Sansui is 1977 or so. While the Kenwwood is more powerful at 200 watts per, I prefer the Sansui. Seems better built and looks more the part of vintage, just my opinion. The 9050 is a freakin beast though. The offer seems fair if it's in great shape and everything works.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Nice job. I would treat all switches with Deoxit spray. It's simply the best contact cleaner/conditioner around.


 
  The switch problem quickly reoccurred later last evening as I apparently didn't buff out the pitting well enough.  I re-did it and really got them smooth this time, but I don't know how much life re-cleaned/buffed contacts really have - I've seen some posts saying you shouldn't recondition power switches anyway.  
   
  I'm thinking strongly of adding a relay to take the majority of the load and use the original power switch only to actuate the relay.  That should be a better long-term fix.


----------



## wualta

Or simply jumper the internal power switch and plug the amp into a good power strip.
   
  Using one of the DeoxIT sprays specifically designed to protect is a good idea too.


----------



## Good Vibes

First, I wanted to say thanks to everyone for sharing their opinions and experience with vintage amps on this thread. It has been invaluable to me as I was in the process of narrowing down my search for a receiver.  This past Friday, I received a near mint Marantz 2285B that I bought off Ebay. When I hooked it up this weekend to my Wavelength Cosecant V3 Dac, 2011 Mac Mini and Audeze LCD-2's, I was blown away by how sweet and seductive the sound was! I listen to jazz and a lot of female vocalists. The sound with the Marantz in my system I feel competes with my Luxman 550A II integrated amp.
   
  Secondly, I wanted to get opinions on cartridges that might work well with my vintage Denon DP-60L turntable. Skylab, I see that you have a Denon DP-59L in your system.  I am looking to hook my Denon TT up to the Marantz as well. I would love to get your thoughts on carts in the $250 to $700 range that would mate well with my system based on my music preferences.  Thanks!!


----------



## Skylab

The DP-60L is a very fine turntable. I'm using a Denon DL-S1 on my DP-59L, but it's low output moving coil. I also used a Benz Micro ACE on the 59L for a long time, which was terrific, and you can get it in a high output model that would work with your Marantz.


----------



## Silent One

*Silent notes made audible...and visible.*
   
  During the first week of ownership with my 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000, I ran a quick 5 minute check to see if the Preamp Out & Power amp In worked - they did. However, using the OTL amp as a preamp only improved the pairing of the two amps slightly. No real rush to return to that exercise.
   
  But I did last night and was supremely rewarded. I heard new found-low level-never heard before-details in my recordings...in spades! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Except for one little thing - the inputs on my OTL amp are reversed. Not a big deal really, I simply reverse the leads out of the DAC into the amp, so voices and instruments maintain their rightful places in the stage.
   
  Anyway, to compensate for switched inputs at the amp, I ran the outputs from the DAC into the SXD7000 correctly, but reversed the outputs from the SXD7000 at the amp like I would normally do. This kept the sound stage correct BUT took away the newly discovered details. I'm thinking because I'm now doing the Loop 'd loop with the receiver and preamp, maybe the signal has become twice reversed...no idea!




  Previously, I tried to confirm if the DAC's outputs were correct. I did this by plugging RCA outs from a DVD player into the OTL, as well as a portable DAT player. The sound stage remains correct. But I still cannot say with absolute conviction that it's the OTL's inputs that a reversed, I merely suspect they are.
   
  Summary - With all Left>Left & Right>Right cable connections made between DAC - SXD7000 - OTL, I'm awashed in detail. But the sound stage is reversed where notes that once appeared on either side of the stage away from center is now flipped. Drums, guitar, piano and so on. And this is without compensating for reversed inputs at the OTL amp.
   
  Reversing the inputs at the OTL amp returns the correct sound stage but taketh back all thy glory in resolution. I've decided to just roll with it for now but in the back of my mind I keep wondering what's proper (placement)?
   
  Secondly, what's the optimum volume balances for the receiver and OTL amps? I keep my audio players at 100% volume. But with the cans plugged into the OTL preamp, I'm currently using 25%-50% at the Pioneer and adjusting on the OTL as I go. What's best for your fellow member?
   
  Kind regards,
   
  Silent One


----------



## Good Vibes

Thanks Skylab for the recommendation... much appreciated!


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





silent one said:


> ( 1 ) Summary - With all Left>Left & Right>Right cable connections made between DAC - SXD7000 - OTL, I'm awashed in detail. But the sound stage is reversed... Reversing the inputs at the OTL amp returns the correct sound stage but taketh back all thy glory in resolution.
> 
> ( 2 ) Secondly, what's the optimum volume balances for the receiver and OTL amps? I keep my audio players at 100% volume. But with the cans plugged into the OTL preamp, I'm currently using 25%-50% at the Pioneer and adjusting on the OTL as I go.


 
   
  1 )  If I'm right in understanding that you're saying that if you merely reverse the inputs of your OTL amp all the detail goes away, then the first thing I'd do is hook up everything so that detail is at a maximum and all seems well with the world, then quickly flip my headphones around on my head. If nothing changes but left-right orientation, I'd check the wiring to make certain I wasn't flipping the phase of one channel somewhere along the line as I was busy flipping the cabling lefts and rights.
   
  If merely flipping the headphones changes detail retrieval too, it's possible you have a headphone driver problem or even an ear problem. In any case, do the mono test. Send a monophonic signal with a Y-splitter into the system and make sure the sound stays dancing on the tip of your nose throughout all your manipulations.
   
   
  2 ) I don't know that it'll make much difference. What you want to avoid is cutting down the gain at some earlier point in the chain, then having to make it up again later down the line. Try feeding the OTL at 75% on the Pioneer and see where that puts you on the volume pot of the OTL. With variations in pot "taper", as it's called, this will not be an exact science, to say the least. Ideally, if all the pots were equal, you'd have the Pioneer and OTL set to the same position. But they're almost certainly not equal, so it's just cut and try. See what 75% on the Pioneer does.
   
  Of course in a "normal" (pfst-- normal; what's _that_) setup you'd control volume on the _Pioneer_ and set the OTL's levels fixed at about 75%, or wherever your sources gave you a comfortable position on your Pioneer's volume knob. Pots are usually, underline usually, most linear away from the extremes of their range. Somewhere between 7 o'clock and 12 o'clock is about right.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, wualta! I'll be back inside the listening room in one hour to play/experiment further. Orientation - great choice of words and could have cut my explanation in half. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But Left/Right orientation is the only thing that changes; the added depth and detail is a plus. 
   
  Originally, I ran the cans out of the Pioneer and fixed the volume on the OTL preamp. But then I discovered when I swapped the inputs from the DAC going into Pioneer Aux In, the sweet (and reversed) presentation moved up to the OTL amp. The amps actually traded places on a swap of Left/Right at Aux In. I hate that the Pioneer's headphone jack sits on the floor - my headphone cables are but 6 feet. So, I followed the presentation upward and now listening with cans out of the OTL amp and fixing the Pioneer's volume. Yeah, far from normal...but working. If I could just find a way to raise up the entire rack about 3 feet... See pix below:


----------



## Silent One

Don't laugh, but looking at my own pix it occurred to me I should've swapped the XLR connectors @ headphone adapter last night!


----------



## Silent One

OTL Preamp; SX-D7000 update:
   
  wualta, to turn the ear cups around was a great tip! I discovered a slight hearing discrepancy between ears. But not enough to keep me from hearing the new presentation awashed in details from either side - it's real. After taking a closer look tonight, now I know why. 
   
  I formerly used the Tape In/Out to loop the OTL; DAC Out to the SX-650 and now SX-D7000. But last night, I changed the connections over to the receiver's Preamp Out/Power amp In to loop the OTL; DAC Out to Aux In remained. Separating the receiver's preamp/amp sections, this configuration returns improved resolution. 
   
  Next up, a 72 hour Debrox spree and a trip to the audiologist before year-end...


----------



## 17trevop

Here's some vintage stuff. Marantz 2270- Scott 210f- Scott Stereomaster 344b


----------



## ardgedee

Nice!
   
  That 210F is monophonic rather than stereo, though. "Dynaural" was Scott's brand name applied to their mono products. You can find it in this table of vintage Scott products, where there's a brief spec on it.


----------



## 17trevop

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Nice!
> 
> That 210F is monophonic rather than stereo, though. "Dynaural" was Scott's brand name applied to their mono products. You can find it in this table of vintage Scott products, where there's a brief spec on it.


 
   
  Yes, i was aware that it was mono. Do you have any Scott gear?


----------



## Rocko1

Any of you experts know how hot a 5w sand resistor should be at idle? I have on on my Sherwood 7010A that gets to over 250F just at idle.I see 30V difference so that would be 3 watts which is within it's 5w rating.  Does this sound right?


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Any of you experts know how hot a 5w sand resistor should be at idle? I have on on my Sherwood 7010A that gets to over 250F just at idle.I see 30V difference so that would be 3 watts which is within it's 5w rating.  Does this sound right?


 
   
  Not an expert, but when I was dissipating 5W through a sand resistor (for a work project), it was freaking hot (much more so that I would have thought), so I couldn't touch it even for a second.  I don't know if 60% of "freaking hot" is in the 250F ballpark or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but I still think 3W is a lot of heat to dissipate and thus it wouldn't surprise me if it got that hot.
   
  Is 30V difference what the schematic shows as the idle voltage delta across this resistor?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





17trevop said:


> Yes, i was aware that it was mono. Do you have any Scott gear?


 
   
  I have a Scott 222 C, but it needs a little work, yet.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Next up, a 72 hour Debrox spree and a trip to the audiologist before year-end...


 
  Yay Debrox! in the spree format! The audiophile's best friend.
   
  ..Well, that and DeoxIT.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Appreciate the guidance and leadership you provided, wualta. I'm really diggin' the new found detail the SX-D7000 & 6AS7 based OTL amp pairing brings. Both amps sound nice, expansive and detailed yet, the preamp/amp combo exposes a new layer. 
   
  While the difference between "Pre" no "Pre" isn't night & day, it's enough to turn my head _with familiar tracks "What was that?!" _






 I'm now able to enjoy one of my favorite tracks (Abraham Laboriel Sr. - "Holidays") with new instrumentation of rhythm guitar and synths not discerned before now...WOW.
   
  And I'm especially proud of my Pioneer.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can't wait to have it "Benched" and learn its story!


----------



## musicman22

I have a Sony TA-F770ES. Early 90's.
  "Spontaneous twin drive" = class A until you really turn up the volume.
   
http://www.hifi-pictures.net/amplifiers-home/Sony%20TA-F770ES/Sony%20TA-F770ES.htm


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Not an expert, but when I was dissipating 5W through a sand resistor (for a work project), it was freaking hot (much more so that I would have thought), so I couldn't touch it even for a second.  I don't know if 60% of "freaking hot" is in the 250F ballpark or not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I can not find a darn schematic for this unit. Every other Sherwood receiver but the 7010A eludes me!
   
  Another resistor in the same circuit but a 10w only gets to 150F. Reason I ask is the resistor in question is blackened a bit and has browned the circuit board around it.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





musicman22 said:


> I have a Sony TA-F770ES. Early 90's.


 
  Ah, a fellow MOSFETnik. Good on you, mate. And welcome to HF!


----------



## musicman22

If you play hours on end, there is no need to heat the room!


----------



## WiR3D

musicman22 said:


> If you play hours on end, there is no need to heat the room!



 
 Sounds like my HD4890... best heater ever. Only problem is it sounds like a tornado.


----------



## moodyrn

While away on vacation in Orlando I decided to check the local
cl to see if there was anything interesting. I came across a sansui au-11000 that's been sitting there for a month. So I decided to call and it's at a Pawnshop. So between cl and pawnshop advertising this thing is still here? I guess the natives are not really into vintage gear. I decided to go check it out, and discovered they also have the matching tuner(tu-9900). So I brought
It back to the resort with me. Can't wait to get this back to AL to do some serious listening with this rig.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, nice score, buddy! That thing is a BEAST. I bet it will be killer!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Skylab. Really looking forward to how it will sound compared to the kenwood and marantz.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> While away on vacation in Orlando I decided to check the local
> cl to see if there was anything interesting. I came across a sansui au-11000 that's been sitting there for a month. So I decided to call and it's at a Pawnshop. So between cl and pawnshop advertising this thing is still here? I guess the natives are not really into vintage gear. I decided to go check it out, and discovered they also have the matching tuner(tu-9900). So I brought
> It back to the resort with me. Can't wait to get this back to AL to do some serious listening with this rig.


 
  pictures or it didn't happen


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, the only pic I can provide is one taken from my crappy iphone. I can upload better pics once I get home this weekend and get it cleaned up.


----------



## Rawrbington

Wow.
  399?
  unbelievable.  its worth 3 times that!


----------



## moodyrn

Shhh


----------



## MrQ

*weeps*
   
  You guys get such good bargains sates-side.


----------



## Skylab

That's such a great score that it would still be worth it even if they need significant work. Nice!


----------



## moodyrn

I didn't have a need for another amp, but the deal was too good to pass up. I've been really lucky lately. I've missed out on so many good deals it was time the odds turned in my favor. Over the pass couple of months I've scored a Kenny 907, mar 2330b, and now the sansui with a total investment of 1250. I havent listened to a 1250 ss dedicated headphone amp that could touch any of these when it comes to performance. I love vintage gear!!!


----------



## woody88

that is a score. wow, I am jealous moodyrn. please let us know your impression of the sansui pair. and congrats again on the score. i love how the price tags are still on them!


----------



## Rocko1

Did you pay sticker price?
   
   
  http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/san/AU11KTU9900.html


----------



## Skylab

I think you need to read back a few posts


----------



## moodyrn

Guess I kindof gave it away with how much I paid for all of my gear combined. No I didn't. They were so afraid of not being able to sell the tuner without the amp, they gave me the combo for 500.00. I'm not a big tuner guy myself, but too good to pass up.


----------



## moodyrn

Btw, I don't feel bad for the price I got it for. With my experience of working at a pawnshop back in college, I seriously doubt they had more than 100.00 invested in that combo, if that. Pawnshops are the biggest "ripper offers" I've seen.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Guess I kindof gave it away with how much I paid for all of my gear combined. No I didn't. They were so afraid of not being able to sell the tuner without the amp, they gave me the combo for 500.00. I'm not a big tuner guy myself, but too good to pass up.


 
  Great units and great price. And yes, pawn store prob. paid $200 for both MAX. Great find.


----------



## monoethylene

Just made some final adjustments on my Sansui 7000. It is working great!!!
   
   

   
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Just made some final adjustments on my Sansui 7000. It is working great!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you adjust the DC offset?


----------



## captouch

Have a very hard to turn tuning knob on a Yamaha CR-220 receiver. I have it open and applied lube to all the plastic pulleys as well as the rotation points on the wheel of the tuner. Seems that at least part of the problem is the external knob itself being very hard to turn. Took some half-hearted attempts to pry the knob off with two spoons to lube the knob, but not sure if something more fundamental is going on.

Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Did you adjust the DC offset?


 

 I also adjusted the DC offset but here I adjusted the output voltage. This means I ve made it symmetric like the service manual has told me.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Guess I kindof gave it away with how much I paid for all of my gear combined. No I didn't. They were so afraid of not being able to sell the tuner without the amp, they gave me the combo for 500.00. I'm not a big tuner guy myself, but too good to pass up.


 
   
  Plus the tuner LOOKS SO COOL!!!!!


----------



## OJNeg

Awesome find moodyrn! Have you hooked it up to any loudspeakers yet?


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> I also adjusted the DC offset but here I adjusted the output voltage. This means I ve made it symmetric like the service manual has told me.


 
  I see. Is adjusting the DC offset difficult?


----------



## monoethylene

Not at all eventhough the test points are not the best ones  . Because of that, I ve soldered a 1 Ohm resistor and adjusted the voltage. You also can use another ground point as the mentioned fuse..


----------



## moodyrn

ojneg said:


> Awesome find moodyrn! Have you hooked it up to any loudspeakers yet?




I won't be able to until I get back home this weekend. But for now I'm only able to use it with my iPhone as a source into my w3000anv. But surprisingly, it sounds pretty good with the iPhone. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing since lesser quality amps are pretty forgiving with lesser quality sources. But it's much more enjoyable than I thought it would be considering the source(pun intended).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol, the only pic I can provide is one taken from my crappy iphone. I can upload better pics once I get home this weekend and get it cleaned up.


 
   
  Ain't even mine and I'm ready to call your friends up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Congrats on a late and wonderful run.


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## Hibuckhobby

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The DP-60L is a very fine turntable. I'm using a Denon DL-S1 on my DP-59L, but it's low output moving coil. I also used a Benz Micro ACE on the 59L for a long time, which was terrific, and you can get it in a high output model that would work with your Marantz.


 
   
  I'm using a Denon D-103 on my DL-61 and love it so far.  It's still breaking in.
  Running into a modified Jolida tube phono stage, then into a Pioneer SX-1250
  into some rare JBL L200 T3's.
  Hibuck....


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Have a very hard to turn tuning knob on a Yamaha CR-220 receiver. I have it open and applied lube to all the plastic pulleys as well as the rotation points on the wheel of the tuner. Seems that at least part of the problem is the external knob itself being very hard to turn.


 
   
  My first guess is that the body of the knob is pressed in so far that it's scraping on the receiver's faceplate.
   
  Is there a lockscrew on the side of the knob that you can loosen? (Some equipment makers use these, some don't, ymmv; if you don't find it, it's not there.)


----------



## captouch

ardgedee said:


> My first guess is that the body of the knob is pressed in so far that it's scraping on the receiver's faceplate.
> 
> Is there a lockscrew on the side of the knob that you can loosen? (Some equipment makers use these, some don't, ymmv; if you don't find it, it's not there.)




Thanks for the reply Ardegee. No, the knob isn't rubbing on the faceplate and I don't see any lock screw. Maybe I just need to really pull on that knob to get if off.


----------



## Good Vibes

Thanks Hibuck for the cartridge info on your Denon TT.  I don't have a separate phono stage, so I am assuming that a low output MC wouldn't be a good fit with my Marantz.  I'm still pretty new to the vinyl game, so if that is faulty thinking on my part, let me know.  Thanks.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Thanks for the reply Ardegee. No, the knob isn't rubbing on the faceplate and I don't see any lock screw. Maybe I just need to really pull on that knob to get if off.


 

 Can you pull other knobs off? 99.9% of all receiver like this the knobs pull straight off. You can also take a t-shirt and slip the material in behind the knob and that will give you more grip-pull straight out gripping shirt and knob. Once off check that the knob shaft is not bent, then apply small drops of lube where the shaft rotates inside the outer sleeve. The grease becomes gummy overtime and sometimes acts like glue.


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Thanks for the reply Ardegee. No, the knob isn't rubbing on the faceplate and I don't see any lock screw. Maybe I just need to really pull on that knob to get if off.


 
   
  Hoping someone in the distant past didn't decide to epoxy that knob on for some reason.




  ~BG


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> Hoping someone in the distant past didn't decide to epoxy that knob on for some reason.


 
  Sadly, this is not unheard of. See http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=448429


----------



## monoethylene

It is working   and this is wonderful
   

   
   
  Can someone help me to get the owners manual of the Marantz 2325??
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> It is working   and this is wonderful
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   Send me a PM with your email and I will send it to you.


----------



## moodyrn

monoethylene said:


> It is working   and this is wonderful
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats, looks really good. Great job!!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, very nice, Mono!


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks a lot boys 
   
  All I need is a woodcase. If you find one, pls tell me.
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## Silent One

It's been awhile since I have been on CL or eBay. This last round of purchases and reconditioning here in this thread has me restless.


----------



## captouch

[/QUOTE]





bgroberts said:


> Hoping someone in the distant past didn't decide to epoxy that knob on for some reason.
> :blink:
> ~BG




Thankfully not. There were two set screws holding the knob on. Looks like more disassembly required to actually get a smooth dial experience. Have someone on AK advising, but debating now whether to go through the trouble since I don't listen to radio a lot anyway.


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote:  Thankfully not. There were two set screws holding the knob on. Looks like more disassembly required to actually get a smooth dial experience. Have someone on AK advising, but debating now whether to go through the trouble since I don't listen to radio a lot anyway.[/quote]


 Glad you got it figured out.
  "How deep do I dive in?" is always a question///part of the fun.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  ~BG


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Thanks a lot boys
> 
> All I need is a woodcase. If you find one, pls tell me.
> 
> ...


 
  There is/was a place that made exact replicas of the wood cases. A beat up original case goes for more than $100. I think the repro are just under $200 but they look spectacular. I would love one for my gear but It will have to wait.


----------



## machoboy

I have a Pioneer SA-950. I quite enjoy it. Can anyone tell me if this model is/was well-regarded? From what I know it was manufactured around 1984 and it holds its own against my Harman-Kardon 3480.


----------



## Skylab

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]





rocko1 said:


> There is/was a place that made exact replicas of the wood cases. A beat up original case goes for more than $100. I think the repro are just under $200 but they look spectacular. I would love one for my gear but It will have to wait.




Yup, both of my Marantz units have reproduction cases. Different makers, but both look nice IMO. One was $140, one was $200. Original cases in nice condition are not cheaper.


----------



## Silent One

1980 Pioneer SX-D7000
   
  The manual states the Fluoroscan Power Meter allows you to read out the rated power level on the fluorescent display tube when speakers with a nominal impedance of 8 ohms are connected to the SPEAKERS terminals.
   
  What about Headphone Out only, no fluoroscan show? I'm leaning toward having the meters fixed but not if I can't watch the power meter when listening to music.


----------



## Skylab

The meters will work when headphones are used. Really what Pioneer is saying there is that the readout it only accurate when an 8-ohm load is connected. But the reason to get the meters fixed is not the nth degree of accuracy...it's the nth degree of coolness


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The meters will work when headphones are used. Really what Pioneer is saying there is that the readout it only accurate when an 8-ohm load is connected. But the reason to get the meters fixed is not the nth degree of accuracy...*it's the nth degree of coolness*


 
   
  You hit it, Skylab! Originally, I was interested in saving money. And from looking at pix I thought the display was static read-out only. Then last night, I saw a video of the amp with the dynamic display moving in a way that entranced me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just didn't know...


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You hit it, Skylab! Originally, I was interested in saving money. And from looking at pix I thought the display was static read-out only. Then last night, I saw a video of the amp with the dynamic display moving in a way that entranced me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Your poor wallet in general. Haven't your credit cards disowned you yet? Don't even wanna know what you needed to buy your partner to make this all OK.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wir3d said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  When I do things for/get things for honey, I consider myself a prudent man.


----------



## wualta

When the manual says the meters are only accurate for an 8-ohm load, and they mean a *pure* 8-ohm load, no inductance or capacitance, that means the meters are reading the drive voltage being sent to the amp, not the actual power into an actual load. So they're Fun Meters, and should be treated-- and enjoyed-- as such. Just don't be tempted to think they'll give you more than a very very rough idea of the power being delivered and you won't be disappointed.


----------



## Silent One

After a hard day outside the listening room, I'm certainly up for some fun from within. Thanks, wualta!


----------



## wualta

You're welcome. Some colors are just calming all by themselves, and Fluroscan blue is one of them.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I really don't feel like opening up my 2240 to spray deoxit inside the volume control, tone controls and balance slider.
   
  Q: Is it possible to spray these from the outside and get the job done well enough to silence the crackles?  And, how long does one wait after spraying to use the amp, i.e. is letting it evaporate overnight long enough?


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I really don't feel like opening up my 2240 to spray deoxit inside the volume control, tone controls and balance slider.
> 
> Q: Is it possible to spray these from the outside and get the job done well enough to silence the crackles?  And, how long does one wait after spraying to use the amp, i.e. is letting it evaporate overnight long enough?


 
  Even though I dont have the 2240, I dont think you will make a good job, when you are sraying from the outside. Normally the volume control as well as the tone controls are closed variable resistors. The housing of this resistor has a hole. There you have to spray deoxit. You cannot reach this hole from the outisde. To treat the balance slider you have to pull off at least the frontplate. Opening the Marantz would be worth to avoid the crackles and it isnt difficult at all.
   
  I normally wait about ten minutes or so and then I turn the knobs like a fool . It really works.
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## Rossliew

Scottie, if you are still following this thread, what do you think of the Sansui AU217 amp? Have one here in Malaysia going for about $150. Newbie here appreciates some advice


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





headphoneaddict said:


> I really don't feel like opening up my 2240 to spray deoxit inside the volume control, tone controls and balance slider.
> 
> Q: Is it possible to spray these from the outside and get the job done well enough to silence the crackles?  And, how long does one wait after spraying to use the amp, i.e. is letting it evaporate overnight long enough?


 
   
  Probably not the rotary controls, because all you can reach from the outside of the case is the shaft mount, which is usually sealed. The electronics you want to reach with the Deoxit is on the other side of the barrier.
   
  I'm less familiar with slider controls, and have no idea, there.


----------



## mrarroyo

Larry, IMO you need to open the unit up to do the job right. I would take pictures as you open the unit to document the as found condition and I would first put the unit outside and "dust it off" using compressed air. Make sure you do not direct or impact the tuning blades.
   
  I also believe you should take the time to remove the knobs (the spoon trick or a thing rope works) then the faceplate. As I recall there is a brass nut in the mid pot that has to be removed as well as the four corner fasteners to remove the face plate. I would then wash the face plate as well as use the compressed air to dust off all the knobs and dial (carefully).
   
  You will see the knobs have holes on the left and right and I would first spray (not a lot) on one and rotate the pot a few times. Then repeat spraying into the other hole. You should place a piece of rag/paper towel below the pot as you spray in case some drips. Do the same with the switches.
   
  While the unit is open check the bias with a multimeter. Good luck.


----------



## Skylab

The good news is that Marantz isn't horrifically heavy, and it is really quite easy to pop the cover off. It's just a few screws. The bad news is, IIRC, it's still not easy to get at some of the controls due to the way the boards are mounted. You need the deoxit with the "straw" sprayer. 

But is is for sure worth doing.


----------



## monoethylene

Some stuff 
   

   
   
  TD 125
  TD 150
  Fisher FM 200 B
  Tube Phono Preamp
  Sansui 7000
  Marantz 2325
  Pioneer SX 626
  AR-4x
  Cabasse Sloop M4
  Beyerdynamic T1
   
  Have fun
  Philipp


----------



## wotts

↑
   
  Sweet!


----------



## Silent One

Looks like excellent winter snowbound planning...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm trying to determine what's not in the room!


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





mrarroyo said:


> Larry, IMO you need to open the unit up to do the job right. I would take pictures as you open the unit to document the as found condition and I would first put the unit outside and "dust it off" using compressed air. Make sure you do not direct or impact the tuning blades.
> 
> I also believe you should take the time to remove the knobs (the spoon trick or a thing rope works) then the faceplate. As I recall there is a brass nut in the mid pot that has to be removed as well as the four corner fasteners to remove the face plate. I would then wash the face plate as well as use the compressed air to dust off all the knobs and dial (carefully).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Okay, but I don't even know what points at which to check the bias.  I have a digital MM that I'm still learning.


----------



## Skylab

You measure DC offset at the speaker taps. That you should do. The adjustment is very easy on that era Marantz. You just need the manual to tell you which trip pot it is. I'm sure the AK Database has the manual.

I wouldn't mess with the bias though. You can wreck your amp adjusting bias. You can't adjusting DC Offset.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Looks like excellent winter snowbound planning...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Exactly  My tablesoccer is at the other side as well as my Salsa, but OT


----------



## Silent One

^


----------



## DevilsRightHand

Just 2 days ago, I got back my dads Marantz 2225 that I had sent to a speciality shop to have it tuned and cleaned up.  I had asked my father if he could give it to me as it was gathering dust in the closet of my old room.  He agreed thinking it would never do much anymore,  boy was he wrong!!!! It has a superbe warm sound.  I use it as a speaker amp and headphone amp.


----------



## Flume

Just measured bias and adjusted offset on my 9090. I got the offset to ~15 mV on both channels. I didn't adjust the bias because it was no more than 10 mV on either channel.
   
  There's an electrical hum that I can hear when the volume is all the way down. While trying to discover what the cause was, I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnsFWx-zvzM&t=0m38s . I'm not sure if it's a capacitor issue but it definitely sounds like that. What can I do to find the source of the hum?


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





flume said:


> Just measured bias and adjusted offset on my 9090. I got the offset to ~15 mV on both channels. I didn't adjust the bias because it was no more than 10 mV on either channel.
> 
> There's an electrical hum that I can hear when the volume is all the way down. While trying to discover what the cause was, I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnsFWx-zvzM&t=0m38s . I'm not sure if it's a capacitor issue but it definitely sounds like that. What can I do to find the source of the hum?


 

 Remove the jumpers from the pre out to main in. Is it still there?
   
  Try reversing the power plug, did that help?


----------



## mrarroyo

Larry, below is a link to the Marantz 2240 manual.
   
  http://akdatabase.com/AKview/albums/userpics/10004/Marantz%202240%20Service%20Manual.pdf


----------



## Rocko1

Ok,I have satisfied my vintage receiver fix for the time being. 10 years ago I was a hardcore addict-of vintage audio-had 20+ receivers, 10+ sets of speakers, tape decks, reel to reel, etc.Sold it all but the 2 Marantz units when I divorced Satan's spawn.  Slowly getting the itch back again. Have the Marantz 2220B and 2270 and just acquired a Sherwood 7200 and 7100A. Man I love these Sherwoods. Very tube like.
   


   
   
  Was detailing the 2270 last week and my wife says wow, it's really nice. What can you do with it?


----------



## palmfish

You can place it in a doorway on breezy days to keep your door from slamming shut...


----------



## nick n

Anyone have any experience past or present with ITT stuff? I realize I may have to run an adapter here in Canada from the 220 unless it's switchable, but some of their stuff makes me drool.
    They are still around doing all sorts of stuff these days even, was eyeing up a couple of the vintage higher end receivers, silver of course.
   reminds me of a sort of grundig  company but bigger and better from what I can tell.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## monoethylene

Hi Boys, Maybe sb can help me. I am looking for a decent faceplate from a Marantz 2325. Have fun Philipp


----------



## Maverickmonk

my roommate's dad is giving me a 35wpc fisher tube receiver for free...I tried to pay him for it, but he won't hear any of it. So instead I'm going to refoam his broken sony speakers for him...fingers crossed, this could be epic


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Hi Boys, Maybe sb can help me. I am looking for a decent faceplate from a Marantz 2325. Have fun Philipp


 

  For that I would definitely do an eBay Saved Search.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> For that I would definitely do an eBay Saved Search.


 
  Ok, I have been using eBay since it was invinted and never knew about this feature! Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

All of my best ebay scores were due to saved search emails.


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks a lot Rob, I will try it.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





skylab said:


> All of my best ebay scores were due to saved search emails.


 
  Rob, What is a "save search"?


----------



## monoethylene

Here you go


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Here you go


 
  Thanks!


----------



## D4NGER BIRD

Ive got a question. I've got a Mcintosh 6200 integrated for my main stereo with all my sources connected to it. I've been using the headphone out for my head amp but I'm finding it lacking and need to eq it where I don't when using my main stereo. 

If I get a seperate headphone amp, could I split the preout and send it to my main amp and my headphone amp so that I could still switch between sources using my 6200? I should mention that I already have it split to send a line to my sub. I was thinking I might just get a line router to simplify it.


----------



## monoethylene

Has anyone an idea where to get these nuts for the headphone plug. It is from a Sansui Six. The thread isnt metric.


----------



## Skylab

d4nger bird said:


> Ive got a question. I've got a Mcintosh 6200 integrated for my main stereo with all my sources connected to it. I've been using the headphone out for my head amp but I'm finding it lacking and need to eq it where I don't when using my main stereo.
> If I get a seperate headphone amp, could I split the preout and send it to my main amp and my headphone amp so that I could still switch between sources using my 6200? I should mention that I already have it split to send a line to my sub. I was thinking I might just get a line router to simplify it.




Better would be to use a TAPE out from the 6200 to send to a headphone amp, not the pre out. Does it have tape outs?


----------



## wje

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Has anyone an idea where to get these nuts for the headphone plug. It is from a Sansui Six. The thread isnt metric.


 
   
  That round nut apparently gets tightened with a screwdriver in the notches, correct?  Also, the nut for the headphone gets placed behind the aluminum panel, correct?  If so, I would think that you could switch over to a 6-sided nut that is flat, allowing you to still have enough room to get the front plate properly on and installed.  You might be able to find flat nuts at a place like Radio Shack, or a Lowes / Home Depot store in the section where they have the flat drawers of specialty nuts.  I really think that might about your only choice in finding sufficient replacements.


----------



## D4NGER BIRD

skylab said:


> Better would be to use a TAPE out from the 6200 to send to a headphone amp, not the pre out. Does it have tape outs?




It does. I guess that would solve my next question as well. I was going to ask how you sort out the volume on the headamp and the 6200 as a pre, but using the tape out would bypass the volume right? Never even crossed my mind, Thanks.


----------



## palmfish

But you bypass the tone controls too, right? That would be a negative to me - I like to use them sometimes.


----------



## D4NGER BIRD

palmfish said:


> But you bypass the tone controls too, right? That would be a negative to me - I like to use them sometimes.




It would bypass the tone controls. I don't use them at all with my stereo, but I have used them to bring up the low end when using headphones. I was kinda hoping that a new amp would solve that. I've got a Grado RS1i for use at home and have heard that the Mapletree EAR HD is the ideal match. Now if I can just find one, Dr Lloyd is not taking orders for a while and there hasn't been one posted for sale anywhere online in over a month.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





wje said:


> That round nut apparently gets tightened with a screwdriver in the notches, correct?  Also, the nut for the headphone gets placed behind the aluminum panel, correct?  If so, I would think that you could switch over to a 6-sided nut that is flat, allowing you to still have enough room to get the front plate properly on and installed.  You might be able to find flat nuts at a place like Radio Shack, or a Lowes / Home Depot store in the section where they have the flat drawers of specialty nuts.  I really think that might about your only choice in finding sufficient replacements.


 

 Unfortanetely not 
   
  These nuts are on the front panel.
   

   

   
   
  Here you can see it that for the Phones and one for the Tape Monitor are missing.
   
  Cheers
  Philipp


----------



## nick n

Try an electronics shop and see what comes in the kit for the flush/face mount jack kit that's where those missing ones are.
   Sometime even cheap metal toggle switches have that on them when you buy them.
   Also some small light bulb sockets that mount this way.


----------



## captouch

Kind of a theoretical question, but wondering if you all have thoughts/opinions on this.
   
  I'm wondering whether the pre-amp or amp stage dominates in determining the final sound signature you'd get if you combined brands with different sound signatures.
   
  For example, if you take the pre-outs of a Yamaha receiver (reputation for lean, natural presentation) to the input of a Sansui receiver or integrated amp (reputation for warm, smooth/laid back signature), would the result be a blend of the two, or would one sound signature or the other dominate?


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Kind of a theoretical question, but wondering if you all have thoughts/opinions on this.
> 
> I'm wondering whether the pre-amp or amp stage dominates in determining the final sound signature you'd get if you combined brands with different sound signatures.
> 
> For example, if you take the pre-outs of a Yamaha receiver (reputation for lean, natural presentation) to the input of a Sansui receiver or integrated amp (reputation for warm, smooth/laid back signature), would the result be a blend of the two, or would one sound signature or the other dominate?


 

 Good question. I think it's mostly in the amplification stage (gain and output), but the preamp can certainly effect the sound.


----------



## ardgedee

Think of it less like mixing flavors, more like mixing chemicals.


----------



## WiR3D

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Think of it less like mixing flavors, more like mixing chemicals.


 
  I think this but from another users experience with AudioGD ref 7.1 DAC, and master 5 amp (both ruthless and clean), and Yulong D18 + A18 (both vinyl like representation) and his mixing it seems the unit that having a forgiving DAC and a critical amp provides the best of both worlds, where as the opposite does not quite have the same effect.


----------



## wualta

Does it make sense to believe that if one unit has more of a color cast (to borrow a photographic term) than the other, the resultant sound will be dominated by the more "colorful" unit? There's a rough rule of thumb that says that preamps improved sonically more than power amps in the decades since 1972, and if we assume that's true overall, then in the vintage realm, it'd be more important to choose the preamp carefully. Not even so much because of colorizing but because of transparency, IM distortion, handling of transients, etc. If the saying "the first watt is the most important" is true, then it's probably also true that the first millivolt is the most important. The only way to determine if this is true in a given system is to gain lots of experience with lots of preamp/amp combinations.
   
  My own experience is that a more-synergistic combination is likely to result when both components are well-designed to the point that they have little or no discernible "signature". In other words, I don't think you can rely on any semi-random combination to sound the way you expect, as good as it may look on paper. But trying various combinations can be a fun project.


----------



## claybum

Please humor me a bit as I come out of lurk mode to post some pics of my new receiver. Not that I needed another vintage Pioneer, but it just looked so nice and the price was right.
   
   
   
  Soooo....here is my sx-1080!
   
   

   

   

   

   
   
  It sounds real similar to my sa 9800 integrated, perhaps with a bit more detail and a tad more dynamics.
   
  The seller replaced a couple caps and refinished the wood sidings and replaced the wood veneer. I purchased a Marantz 2285b from this guy and it has been very reliable.
   
  I realize some people here and at audio karma prefer the 1050 or 1010 and I understand some parts for the 1080 are super hard to obtain, but for $350 I am pretty happy.
  A great companion for my HPM 1500 and some of my headphones.
  Cheers


----------



## Skylab

Looks awesome, Claybum! Very nice. I bet that sounds as good as it looks, too!


----------



## Silent One

Just gorgeous!


----------



## claybum

Right on, thanks guys. I always wanted to come across a 1250 or 1280. But I think this is all the power and beauty I need for a good while. 
   
  If it wasn't for this thread and everyone who posts, I wouldn't own these beauties. Much appreciation!!!
   
  Now, I think I might take the plunge into vinyl.


----------



## Silent One

Congrats on your journey, claybum! I share your interest in taking the plunge. Since getting nice vintage iron a few months back, I find myself staring into the abyss - The Valley of Vinyl. I have been unable to afford a good record cleaner and can't see spending on a new TT, Cart & Virgin vinyl without one...say, like a VPI 'round $600.
   
  For me, the courage to take the plunge will come with the currency that prompts it. _Of course, your next step could inspire me..._


----------



## nbourbaki

That looks beautiful Claybum!  I've owned many vintage receivers from Marantz, Sony and Yamaha but I've always wanted a Pioneer.  I'm sure you'll get a lot of enjoyment out of that receiver.


----------



## claybum

Thanks Silent One. Yeah, I would love to have a nice turntable to complete my vintage rig. But my knowledge or what constitutes a good turntable, cartridge and stylus is extremely limited. New vinyl releases seem expensive but I would love to hear how it sounds and have a small collection of lp's. 
   
  I spent my youth spinning lp's as that is all there was. Then came 8 track and finally cassette. I remember cassettes as a complete luxury compared to 8 track. Unfortunately I had to dump my vinyl collection many years ago as a result of black mold in my house. Living in the redwoods of norcal was great, but the moisture destroyed much of my stuff.
   
  So yeah, when the money and time is right. I'd like to give it a go.


----------



## Rocko1

Scored another Sherwood gem this week. Man these sound so sweet. I am glad no one likes them as much as the big names.


   
  Love the headphone section so much power. Drives the snot out my HTF600's.


----------



## hojomojo96

Hi there! I'm a complete newbie to the amping scene, let alone the vintage amp scene.
 I was wondering where it is you guys find all your great buys? Just ebay and craigslist, or other sources, too?
  I really like the look and the sound (not as in audio, figuratively) of the vintage amps. Is there anything I can read so that I'll be a little less lost? I just spent a while trawling through this thread


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





hojomojo96 said:


> Hi there! I'm a complete newbie to the amping scene, let alone the vintage amp scene.
> I was wondering where it is you guys find all your great buys? Just ebay and craigslist, or other sources, too?
> I really like the look and the sound (not as in audio, figuratively) of the vintage amps. Is there anything I can read so that I'll be a little less lost? I just spent a while trawling through this thread


 
  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13
   
  Start reading there. I find most of my stuff at thrift stores. It takes a lot of patience as many items get swooped up-thanks eBay for people looking to sell them. Craigslist is also an option as well as ebay. When you go to the thrift stores bring some headphones-any kind-with a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter so you can at lease check the headphone output on AM/FM. When I was really into it I brought a small extension cord, small 4" car speaker with 3 feet of wire connected and used that to test the output-not perfect but better than a blind shot. Just a few pointers.


----------



## claybum

Jeeez, these things just keep popping up in my area.
   
  sx-1280
  http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/3254973091.html
   
  sx-737
  http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/3242604753.html
   
   
  If anyone is interested in the 737, Jeff sometimes is willing to ship these receivers, just ask.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Scored another Sherwood gem this week. Man these sound so sweet. I am glad no one likes them as much as the big names.
> 
> 
> 
> Love the headphone section so much power. Drives the snot out my HTF600's.


 
   
  Which model is this?  I took a look at a S-7900A earlier this week.  Sounded really nice and was especially impressed by zero noise/background from min to max volume.  Reasonably priced as well, but it just wasn't as pristine or subjectively cosmetically pretty (to me) as some other options, so I passed.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Which model is this?  I took a look at a S-7900A earlier this week.  Sounded really nice and was especially impressed by zero noise/background from min to max volume.  Reasonably priced as well, but it just wasn't as pristine or subjectively cosmetically pretty (to me) as some other options, so I passed.


 
   This is a S-7225. The 7900 and 8900 were the last US made units and are built like tanks. I hear what you say about the looks, nice, but doesn't tickle me as much as the 7100, 72XX lines.


----------



## Skylab

Ruh roh...I just picked up a Sansui G-7000.  Needed some deoxit of course, but sounds great otherwise! Here it is atop my SX-1280 (which makes for a nice size comparison, although the 1280 is more comparable to a G-8000 or 9000...


----------



## claybum

looks nice Skylab. congrats


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Ruh roh...I just picked up a Sansui G-7000.  Needed some deoxit of course, but sounds great otherwise! Here it is atop my SX-1280 (which makes for a nice size comparison, although the 1280 is more comparable to a G-8000 or 9000...


 
  That thing is a monster! Can I ask where you got it?
   
   Do you have any pics of the internals? I love me some nudes.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! I bought it on the 'Bay. Packing job was only barely adequate even after I sent a note to the seller asking him to pack very carefully, but it arrived pretty much unscathed.

I have wanted to listen to one of these G series Sansuis for a while. I'm not sure how long I will keep it, but I do think it sounds quite good. A little too much hiss with my Ultrasone Edition 8, and, oddly, the -20dB muting had no effect on the hiss, even though it attenuated the signal as designed. But no hiss with LCD-3.

Also sounding good driving HPM-60 speakers.

I will take some internals soon


----------



## manveru

Quote: 





skylab said:


> A little too much hiss with my Ultrasone Edition 8, and, oddly, the -20dB muting had no effect on the hiss, even though it attenuated the signal as designed.


 
   
  My G-5700 is the exact same way.


----------



## Skylab

That's strange, because the muting button on my Sansui 9090DB makes it hiss-free with any headphone. I wonder what in the topology changed.


----------



## manveru

As do I. It's rather unfortunate.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed it is, especially because I'm actually VERY impressed how this thing sounds. Considering you can score G-7000's for $300, it's a damned fine sounding receiver.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed it is, especially because I'm actually VERY impressed how this thing sounds. Considering you can score G-7000's for $300, it's a damned fine sounding receiver.


 
   
  Yeah, take that $300 in to Best Buy and see what you can find. A piece of plastic weighting about 5 pounds.


----------



## Skylab

Exactly!!!! That's all you could get. Nowhere close to the sons of this thing.

Thinking about it, I believe the hiss from the G-7000 must be from the power amp. The -20dB muting happens in the preamp section. So the hiss from the 9090dB is in the preamp section, and gets attenuated along with the signal when the muting button is engaged, but the muting button doesn't reduce hiss in the G-7000, leading me to conclude that the hiss is after the preamp stage (and thus in the power amp section).

Completely inaudible when using speakers though.


----------



## moodyrn

Great score Skylab!! That thing looks real beastly!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And beautiful as well.
   
  Like you and a few others, the mute button has the same effect(or should I say non-effect) on my au-11000. Of course I never hear any hiss with my he6, even from the speaker outs. But it does hiss with my w3000, which is a shame since sonically, they sound pretty good together. And of course it's unusable with my jh13's. But it don't bother me much since I use it mostly as a speaker amp, and occasionally with my he6.


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Scored another Sherwood gem this week. Man these sound so sweet. I am glad no one likes them as much as the big names.
> 
> 
> 
> Love the headphone section so much power. Drives the snot out my HTF600's.


 
   
  I had a Sherwood S-7100 for a while but the knobs were mis-matched and the bass control shaft was broken so I sold it to finance my current Denon DRA-600. Not as old as the Sherwood but a decent receiver anyway.


----------



## giedrys

How's headphone output on Pioneer SX-780?


----------



## hojomojo96

So, I'm new to all this. Been browsing through ebay and some forums doing research, and this question came up: How much power is enough? Considering I'll probably only be using the headphone output(s), how much power would be adequate? I assume it'll be far less than if I was driving speakers. Or is there a separate value for the headphone output thats not wpc? Sorry if its a noob question, but hey, thats what I am x)
  Thanks!


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





hojomojo96 said:


> So, I'm new to all this. Been browsing through ebay and some forums doing research, and this question came up: How much power is enough? Considering I'll probably only be using the headphone output(s), how much power would be adequate? I assume it'll be far less than if I was driving speakers. Or is there a separate value for the headphone output thats not wpc? Sorry if its a noob question, but hey, thats what I am x)
> Thanks!


 
   
  My Pioneer SA-6500 II is rated at 30 watts per channel, and the headphone jack is connected directly to the power amp (same as using the speaker outputs). I have yet to find any amp that sounds better with my HD580s (not exactly easy to drive, at 300 ohms, but easier than an HE-6 or K1000). What headphones are you planning to use?
   
  Edit: I also use it to drive a pair of Polk Monitor 7's. Plenty of power. Companies were much more honest about their power ratings back in the 1970's and 80's.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





hojomojo96 said:


> So, I'm new to all this. Been browsing through ebay and some forums doing research, and this question came up: How much power is enough? Considering I'll probably only be using the headphone output(s), how much power would be adequate? I assume it'll be far less than if I was driving speakers. Or is there a separate value for the headphone output thats not wpc? Sorry if its a noob question, but hey, thats what I am x)
> Thanks!


 
  Almost all of the 70's receivers have the headphones tapped from the speaker outputs but stepped down in power. Any unit 10 watts and up will be more than sufficient unless you have some insaneley inefficient headphones. I really like the Marantz 2220 units. I can't get past 9 O'Clock on the volume with my Panasonic HTF600 headphones.


----------



## palmfish

calipilot227 said:


> My Pioneer SA-6500 II is rated at 30 watts per channel, and the headphone jack is connected directly to the power amp (same as using the speaker outputs). I have yet to find any amp that sounds better with my HD580s (not exactly easy to drive, at 300 ohms, but easier than an HE-6 or K1000).




Not exactly the same. There are resistors in there to step the power down. They also raise output impedance.

300 ohms is actually a very easy load to drive. It's low impedance loads that make an amp sweat.


----------



## hojomojo96

Well, to be honest, I'm not planning on driving a specific set of cans. At the moment, all I have is JVC harx700's, which I'm sure anything will be able to drive. I was thinking more on terms of when I have a little more funding (which should be fairly soon) and I can actually afford to upgrade to some higher quality phones. So, any unit with 10 watts per channel for the power amp, will be enough even after the stepdown for the headphone output?


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Not exactly the same. There are resistors in there to step the power down. They also raise output impedance.
> 300 ohms is actually a very easy load to drive. It's low impedance loads that make an amp sweat.


 

 Yep, just took this last night from my Sherwood 7100A. Two resistors. The switch is the speaker outputs. Resistor value is 271K if I am not mistake. Not sure how much that lowers this 17 watt receiver.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





hojomojo96 said:


> Well, to be honest, I'm not planning on driving a specific set of cans. At the moment, all I have is JVC harx700's, which I'm sure anything will be able to drive. I was thinking more on terms of when I have a little more funding (which should be fairly soon) and I can actually afford to upgrade to some higher quality phones. So, any unit with 10 watts per channel for the power amp, will be enough even after the stepdown for the headphone output?


 
   
  It's impossible to say without knowing exactly what equipment you're thinking of. There are high-quality phones which are extremely efficient, and there are some that are not. Some thrive on lots of current and others are somewhat indifferent to it. Similarly, some receivers might not have any significant damping at the headphone jack, and others do.
   
  It's good to know what your options are, and to use this time to learn more about them, but I recommend not worrying about matching equipment until the opportunity to get some particular receiver or headphone presents itself.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Yep, just took this last night from my Sherwood 7100A. Two resistors. The switch is the speaker outputs. Resistor value is 271K if I am not mistake. Not sure how much that lowers this 17 watt receiver.


 
   
  Good for you!
   
  That's my next step. I have a Carver Receiver and have downloaded schematics and even sent Bob an e-mail with no reply to find out the output impedance of my headphone jack. Now if only I could remember how to read those colored bands - it's been 28 years since I went to AIT... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm no tech, so I'm wondering if anyone has ever just replaced the resistors with straight wire? Seems a lot easier than making a speaker tap (which I have also done just for grins and practice). It seems obvious enough, but are there any other considerations/hazards involved?


----------



## Skylab

Yes, some folks have removed the dropping resistor. The only issue is if you have very sensitive headphones, you may not get much play with the volume control, and you may get some hiss. But for some amp/receiver and headphone combos it can be a good idea.


----------



## moodyrn

I did something similar with my fisher when I owned the he-5. I didn't completely remove the resistor, but instead dropped the value from 330ohm to 165ohm essentially doubling the power from the headphone jack. This gave me the ability to drive them from the headphone out while still being able to driver lower impedance cans as well.Now after owning my he-6, I've gone back to the stock value since I used the speaker taps for those anyway. But during that time, I had great results, and could even use the low impedance d7000 I also had at the time with no hiss or hum whatsoever. This could work fine on a 17wpc receiver, but I wouldn't dare try it on any of the higher powered ones.


----------



## wotts

Quote:


palmfish said:


> Good for you!
> 
> That's my next step. I have a Carver Receiver and have downloaded schematics and even sent Bob an e-mail with no reply to find out the output impedance of my headphone jack. *Now if only I could remember how to read those colored bands* - it's been 28 years since I went to AIT...
> 
> ...


 
  Briefly,
   
  Black - 0
  Brown - 1
  Red - 2
  Orange - 3
  Yellow - 4
  Green - 5
  Blue - 6
  Violet - 7
  Grey - 8
  White - 9
   
  Silver/gold are tolerance bands 10%/5%
   
  Put the numbers from the first two colors together then multiply it by 10 raised to the power of the third band. So the pictured resistors have Red, Violet, Yellow (as far as I can tell) so 27 x 10^4 = 270,000 = 270K +/- 10%
   
  More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_code
   
  Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Yep, just took this last night from my Sherwood 7100A. Two resistors. The switch is the speaker outputs. Resistor value is 271K if I am not mistake. Not sure how much that lowers this 17 watt receiver.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> Briefly,
> 
> Black - 0
> ...


 

 Copied and pasted for posterity. Thank You!


----------



## wotts

Happy to help!!
   
  I picked up a 2230 recently. It's in need of some TLC - lights burnt out, dusty, etc. It does have some channel imbalance as well. I plan to get it on the bench when work slows down. I have a question for those of you who have done some restoration: how do you get teh caked on dust out? I tried some vacuuming, but there is a lot of residue still left.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> Briefly,
> 
> Black - 0
> ...


 
  Ah, thanks. I was adding the third color to the total. Makes sense now. Thank you.
   
  Can you tell me how these resistors differ from the sand block type? I would think that this little resistor would overheat with all that power going through it.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Happy to help!!
> 
> I picked up a 2230 recently. It's in need of some TLC - lights burnt out, dusty, etc. It does have some channel imbalance as well. I plan to get it on the bench when work slows down. I have a question for those of you who have done some restoration: how do you get teh caked on dust out? I tried some vacuuming, but there is a lot of residue still left.


 

 Many use a isopropyl alcohol and water mixture with a paint brush with the bristles cut down-tape the metal edges. Gently scrub the boards with this and then use compressor to dry it and then let it set a day or two with the cover off to make sure it's dry. I have seen boards brought back to brand new condition using this method.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I did something similar with my fisher when I owned the he-5. I didn't completely remove the resistor, but instead dropped the value from 330ohm to 165ohm essentially doubling the power from the headphone jack. This gave me the ability to drive them from the headphone out while still being able to driver lower impedance cans as well.Now after owning my he-6, I've gone back to the stock value since I used the speaker taps for those anyway. But during that time, I had great results, and could even use the low impedance d7000 I also had at the time with no hiss or hum whatsoever. This could work fine on a 17wpc receiver, but I wouldn't dare try it on any of the higher powered ones.


 

  
  I see. I can't get past 9 O'Clock on any of my receivers, even my Marantz 2270 but I am only driving the Panasonic HTF600's which are 56ohm and 100db sensitivity, so they are no sweat. I can't imagine any headphones needing a full 20 watts RMS but I am new to this game.
   
  Are their higher quality resistors that would be better suited for the headphone power reduction?


----------



## BGRoberts

I've seen mention of driving headphones off of the speaker taps............. can anyone tell me how you'd setup to do that?
  Thanks!
  ~BG


----------



## Maverickmonk

Skylab, you're vintage HiFi collection is truly incredible. Mad jelly over here, enjoy it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm still definitively mid-fi on the vintage scale, I've added my 3rd 40-50w receiver to my collection, a Fisher RS-1035. It's the smallest of its class, and from the mid 70's. It's not from the Avery era of Fisher but it's still quite well built. If all goes well, I might keep this free unit at school for the tv-stereo and sell the SX-780 to recoup the costs spent on it.

   
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


>


----------



## Skylab

Thanks.  Nice looking Fisher - I'm not really familiar with that era Fisher - how does it sound?


----------



## Maverickmonk

The controls are still really scratchy, but what sound I'm getting out of it sounds good. Fairly neutral, with a little bass warmth, but since its all old capacitors and it still needs to be cleaned (inside and out), we'll see how that changes.
   
   
  Fisher trade? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 JK


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> The controls are still really scratchy, but what sound I'm getting out of it sounds good. Fairly neutral, with a little bass warmth, but since its all old capacitors and it still needs to be cleaned (inside and out), we'll see how that changes.
> 
> 
> Fisher trade?
> ...


 
  Deoxit all the controls, work them 20x in each direction. This should cure all the scratchiness.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Copied and pasted for posterity. Thank You!


 
  To make electronic things really easy, try downloading the App, "ElectroDroid" to your smartphone.  It has color codes for resistors, SMD's, circuit calculators, ohm's law and lots of other helpful stuff.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Ah, thanks. I was adding the third color to the total. Makes sense now. Thank you.
> 
> Can you tell me how these resistors differ from the sand block type? I would think that this little resistor would overheat with all that power going through it.


 
  The resistor on the headphone jack is probably a metal-film or carbon-film type, and I'm guessing a rating around 1/4w to 1/2w dissipation. The wire wound or sand block resistors can be anywhere from 2w to 25w rated. Mind you this is a rating for heat dissipation.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Many use a isopropyl alcohol and water mixture with a paint brush with the bristles cut down-tape the metal edges. Gently scrub the boards with this and then use compressor to dry it and then let it set a day or two with the cover off to make sure it's dry. I have seen boards brought back to brand new condition using this method.


 
   
   
  Awesome. Thank you!


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Deoxit all the controls, work them 20x in each direction. This should cure all the scratchiness.


 

 Yup, worked like a charm. Finally got some real deoxit d100 instead of the generic contact cleaner I've used the past few times. It works a whole lot better. Runs like a champ now, no clicks or pops, and sounds pretty good too. I might not even recap this one, or maybe just the power supply caps. Looks a hundred times better too.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Yup, worked like a charm. Finally got some real deoxit d100 instead of the generic contact cleaner I've used the past few times. It works a whole lot better. Runs like a champ now, no clicks or pops, and sounds pretty good too. I might not even recap this one, or maybe just the power supply caps. Looks a hundred times better too.


 
  Recapping all caps is not always a necessary but a good place-easy-to start if you want is the power supply section. Can do most units for under $20.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Yeah, this is my 3rd restore, and I've already compiled a full capacitor list, but this was a free stereo, and I'm not even sure that it's worth much, and since I'm a poor college student, I've got a rule of not putting more into something than I can get out of it. It's pretty much the only way that I can justify this hobby of mine. any clue what a stereo like this would be worth? I can't really find a lot on this one


----------



## hojomojo96

What would you guys say about the Kenwood 4070 and the Pioneer sx626? What price should I be looking for, and how good quality do they put out?
   
  EDIT: I can get both for 100, total, fyi. The sx626 works for sure, the 4070 hasn't been tested.


----------



## Rocko1

If they are in both great physical condition that is a fair price. I like the Pioneer a bit better but both are very good receivers.
   
  Kenwood is 40 watts per ch.RMS
  Pioneer is 20 " " "


----------



## monoethylene

I only know the Pio, because I have it and imo this is an entry receiver. I ve restored mine as well as the woodcase. The FM reception is really good and the sound as well. Be sure to get the speaker adaptors and be aware that big RCA plugs wont fit because the space is really narrow..


----------



## hojomojo96

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> I only know the Pio, because I have it and imo this is an entry receiver. I ve restored mine as well as the woodcase. The FM reception is really good and the sound as well. Be sure to get the speaker adaptors and be aware that big RCA plugs wont fit because the space is really narrow..


 
  Well, I'm an entry level user. x) I probably won't get the speaker adaptors, since I plan on using it for headphones. How does it fare as far as that goes?
   
  Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> If they are in both great physical condition that is a fair price. I like the Pioneer a bit better but both are very good receivers.
> 
> Kenwood is 40 watts per ch.RMS
> Pioneer is 20 " " "


 

 Hmm okay, interesting. I won't be paying shipping, so will offering any lower be a lowball? Remember, the 4070 may or may not work. 
   
  Also, I know you all are fans of more vintage sources, but will using my laptop as a source work fine for these?


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





hojomojo96 said:


> Well, I'm an entry level user. x) I probably won't get the speaker adaptors, since I plan on using it for headphones. How does it fare as far as that goes?
> 
> 
> Hmm okay, interesting. I won't be paying shipping, so will offering any lower be a lowball? Remember, the 4070 may or may not work.
> ...


 
  No, I don't think so. Is there a reason the unit can't be tested? What physical shape are both in? You can always offer $75, worst he can say is no.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> No, I don't think so. Is there a reason the unit can't be tested? What physical shape are both in? You can always offer $75, worst he can say is no.


 
   
  If I were going to spend $100, I would look for a good working Marantz 2220 or 2216. The build quality is just amazing. The loudness function is superb and to my ears the best I have heard in have over 50 receivers. In the scheme of things, even $150 on a nice vintage receiver is a decent price, IMO.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> If I were going to spend $100, I would look for a good working Marantz 2220 or 2216. The build quality is just amazing. The loudness function is superb and to my ears the best I have heard in have over 50 receivers. In the scheme of things, even $150 on a nice vintage receiver is a decent price, IMO.


 
  I agree. Those low-powered, capacitor coupled receivers have a really great sound to them. Nowadays, it seems like vintage gear is going way up in price. Some of the higher end vintage Marantz units go for ~$500, and you're lucky if you can find a 2220 for under $200. It also seems like it's impossible to find a good receiver in any thrift store; they all get plucked out quickly and put on eBay.


----------



## Maverickmonk

I agree on the smaller receivers. The RS-1035 is capacitor coupled, so far as I can tell, and it sounds really quite nice. Very similar to the smaller pioneer's in my opinion, which would make sense, since the Sanyo power packs on the fisher seem fairly similar to the Darlington powerpacks on the pioneers. The preamplifier topology on the Fisher is also pretty efficient. There are minimal capacitors in the signal path, there's only 6 on the whole preamp board (one for each channel per control knob). Power filtering capacitors could be a little larger, but the overall layout seems as efficient as it is minimalist. I'm doing a capacitor list write up for audiokarma, since there's not a lot of documentation out there on this amp.
   
  Ok, I need someone to talk me down from this, or up to this, either way. I'm split between building an M^3, or holding out and bidding until I can win a Marantz 2270/2275/2285 or Pioneer SX-980/SX-1050. I figure either will cost me about the same price, and either will be a fun little project. Oh this hobby...


----------



## Skylab

Any of you who are serious about looking to buy vintage audio should subscribe over at AudioKarma...there are some amazing deals in "Barter Town" there, but you have to subscribe to have access to Barter Town.  Well worth it, IMHO.


----------



## BGRoberts

+1
  Right or wrong, I feel more confident buying from an AK'r than Ebay, or some other auction.
  You can be pretty sure you're dealing with a knowledgeable seller.
  ~BG
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Any of you who are serious about looking to buy vintage audio should subscribe over at AudioKarma...there are some amazing deals in "Barter Town" there, but you have to subscribe to have access to Barter Town.  Well worth it, IMHO.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





ojneg said:


> I agree. Those low-powered, capacitor coupled receivers have a really great sound to them. Nowadays, it seems like vintage gear is going way up in price. Some of the higher end vintage Marantz units go for ~$500, and you're lucky if you can find a 2220 for under $200. It also seems like it's impossible to find a good receiver in any thrift store; they all get plucked out quickly and put on eBay.


 
  Tell me about it. I got into the vintage game back when eBay was not widely known, late 90s. I can't tell you the deals I got. Ok, Ill tell you one. 2270 for $80 shipped in very good shape. I also picked vintage items and sold them as a hobby. Again, really nice finds in thrift stores. It was not uncommon to see 2-5 working 70's era receivers on the shelves. I passed up so many units that were 30 watters just because I knew there would be bigger units coming. I picked up Sanyo's biggest receiver-can't recall the model-huge-45lbs, in mint shape for $20. Those days are long gone my friend.  
   
   While the $20 deals maybe gone, you can still get a decent unit for a fair price. When using ebay there are two key points. 1) Sellers feedback. Check to make sure it's 100% or darn near close. See what they have sold before. Have they sold vintage receivers or similar items? People selling older items may have no idea about the stereo or how it is supposed to work. 2) Ask questions before. Do both channels work evenly, is there any distortion, is there any unseen damage, does the AM/FM tune stations in, etc. If they can't answer, look elsewhere.
   
   One last point. I often times look for items within 50 miles from where I live or work. Ask if you can pick the item up. This will save you money and prevent the unit from being damages in shipping-which happens too often.


----------



## Skylab

Here in Chicago, you can still score some pretty sweet deals on Craigslist. Maybe not a 2270 for $80, but some decent deals nonetheless.  Have to be patient, and you are more likely to get a great deal if you spend a little.  I got a pair of Pioneer HPM-1100's (not 100's, 1100's) for $350 locally because the seller couldn't realistically ship these 90 pound beasts.   That's an incredible price for a pair of speakers of that caliber. I bought a Marantz 2240 that needed just a deoxit bath for $100.  Right now there are multiple nice vintage receivers for decent prices on CL here, in addition to some of course that are listed for truly ridiculous prices that no one will ever pay.
   
  I have NEVER seen anything good at Goodwill and have stopped looking.


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Here in Chicago, you can still score some pretty sweet deals on Craigslist. Maybe not a 2270 for $80, but some decent deals nonetheless.  Have to be patient, and you are more likely to get a great deal if you spend a little.  I got a pair of Pioneer HPM-1100's (not 100's, 1100's) for $350 locally because the seller couldn't realistically ship these 90 pound beasts.   That's an incredible price for a pair of speakers of that caliber. I bought a Marantz 2240 that needed just a deoxit bath for $100.  Right now there are multiple nice vintage receivers for decent prices on CL here, in addition to some of course that are listed for truly ridiculous prices that no one will ever pay.
> 
> I have NEVER seen anything good at Goodwill and have stopped looking.


 

 Thats good. I have given up looking on CL in my area because someone who buys and resells vintage stereos has just bombed the entire category with WILL PAY CASH FOR OLD STEREOS and they are aggressively after and swooping in on anyone posting any deals.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Goodwill might not be the best for vintage stereos, but there's some nice 90's gear floating around. Picked up a sony ES cd player for a friend, and a Denon CD player for myself, both of which were under $10 bucks. The Denon came in at a wopping $2.95


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Goodwill might not be the best for vintage stereos, but there's some nice 90's gear floating around. Picked up a sony ES cd player for a friend, and a Denon CD player for myself, both of which were under $10 bucks. The Denon came in at a wopping $2.95


 
  Yes, I noticed a ton of 5 disc cd players for cheap. Good gear can be had. Smartphone is your friend when browsing.
   
  The ES line is amazing. Nice score!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Any of you who are serious about looking to buy vintage audio should subscribe over at AudioKarma...there are some amazing deals in "Barter Town" there, but you have to subscribe to have access to Barter Town.  Well worth it, IMHO.


 
   
  +1 on that.  An AK subscription costs $25 for one year.  There is some sweet stuff sold on Barter Town. For example, here are a few of the items listed there now:
   
  Kenwood Eleven G - $300
  Marantz 2226 - $225 OBO
  Pioneer SA-9500 II - $200
  Pioneer SX-838 - $160


----------



## BmWr75

For sale on AK today (not mine) in Barter Town, no refurbishment done.  Pictures look great.
   
  "Pioneer SA 9100 in great condition. There is one minor scratch that has been 90% repaired with Howards' wax. Other than that, my 48 year old eyes aren't seeing anything wrong.

This is my daily driver and everything works as it should. I have not found anything not to be working as new. The last unit sold for $300 here and they seem to be asking the moon for these on the bay. I need to get $290 plus $40 shipping anywhere in Canada or the US. 

I ship via UPS from Eureka Montana and it will be double boxed and insured. We have two dogs in our home and no smoking. The picture of the interior was taken without any cleaning in the last 6 months. This thing is in beauty condition."


----------



## Silent One

.


----------



## sling5s

I currently have a Pioneer SX-737.   I just picked up Pioneer vsx-d602s out of curiosity.  It's was made in 1993.  The headphone out seems to be good with the LCD-2.
  It's not as clean as the SX-737 but anyone have them?


----------



## Fearless1

I just picked this up at a flea-market for 30 bucks, wow the headphone out is magnificent! It drives my HD-650/600 with more authority then my Lyr(actually sounds more plush as well).
   
  Does anyone have any info on Lafayette?


----------



## BmWr75

From the little bit I could find about it on AK, you have a nice receiver there.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> From the little bit I could find about it on AK, you have a nice receiver there.


 
  There really is not much info around on this...there was a Pioneer SX 1250(80 bucks) there as well, it was just so beat down. The guy has a stand there every week(inside) and he has an amazing collection of things for sale. I could not pass up the Lafayette, it looks brand new.


----------



## monoethylene

May you get the 1250 for me and ship it to Germany??
   
  Have fun
   
  Philipp


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I just picked this up at a flea-market for 30 bucks, wow the headphone out is magnificent! It drives my HD-650/600 with more authority then my Lyr(actually sounds more plush as well).
> 
> Does anyone have any info on Lafayette?


 
  This is one model of best Lafayette receiver series. This series have 3 models, Lr-2020 or something, Lr-5555, and TOTL LR-9090. Another seires only has one receiver LR-120Db. The LR-x0x0 inside is identical to Setton RX-220, 440 and 660. Someone say they all made by Setton, but other say Setton didn't own manufacture factory. I think they either made by Kenwood or Fostex. LR-120DB was manufactured by Luxman. I have LR=9090, LR-120db, and Setton RX-660, I can confirm this info.
   
  BTW, they all great receivers.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> May you get the 1250 for me and ship it to Germany??
> 
> Have fun
> 
> Philipp


 
  It was so beat, all of the lights were out and it was wired to stay on, only off when unplugged. Could you imagine the shipping cost from Pittsburgh to you lol.
   
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> This is one model of best Lafayette receiver series. This series have 3 models, Lr-2020 or something, Lr-5555, and TOTL LR-9090. Another seires only has one receiver LR-120Db. The LR-x0x0 inside is identical to Setton RX-220, 440 and 660. Someone say they all made by Setton, but other say Setton didn't own manufacture factory. I think they either made by Kenwood or Fostex. LR-120DB was manufactured by Luxman. I have LR=9090, LR-120db, and Setton RX-660, I can confirm this info.
> 
> BTW, they all great receivers.


 
  Awesome, thank you for the info.  I can't even believe how fantastic the FM reception is. The headphone out is unreal as well, just unlimited power. Thanks again!


----------



## wualta

Yep, the long-gone national electronics chain Lafayette Radio Electronics was a store with a catalog as thick as a phone book, sort of what you might get if you crossed Allied Radio with Radio Shack, but with fewer stores. LRE, the only US chain to carry its own version of the original Fostex T50 (not the T50RP), is still waiting for its closeup.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Where was this fleamarket with this magical vintage hifi stand? I'm a little bit east in shippensburg, and an 80 dollar 1250 sounds lovely


----------



## Parula

Quote: 





crazyray said:


> [size=12pt]Here is some of my gear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Love the WA6se! I have one on order!


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, Parula!


----------



## Rocko1

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I just picked this up at a flea-market for 30 bucks, wow the headphone out is magnificent! It drives my HD-650/600 with more authority then my Lyr(actually sounds more plush as well).
> 
> Does anyone have any info on Lafayette?


 
  Nice unit. Here is the info. I believe there is a typo in the ad. It says 55 watts RMS near the picture but in the specs it lists 65. I bet its based on different measurements-55 RMS being 20hz-20Khz at 8 ohms both channels driven, 65 RMS maybe being 40hz-20Khz or one channel driven. Either way nice catch!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Where was this fleamarket with this magical vintage hifi stand? I'm a little bit east in shippensburg, and an 80 dollar 1250 sounds lovely


 
  It is called Trader Jacks it is in Bridgeville , PA.  The guy is there every week. I do not think he posses any magical powers though.....
   
   
  Not all of his stuff is cherry like the Lafayette, I bought an Onkyo A5 from him that was full of mouse droppings. Took my days to clean and salvage.
   
  He did have a bunch of old Pioneer Sx seris (bad shape), some old Sonys and some Luxman stuff that looked like it was from the 80's.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





rocko1 said:


> Nice unit. Here is the info. I believe there is a typo in the ad. It says 55 watts RMS near the picture but in the specs it lists 65. I bet its based on different measurements-55 RMS being 20hz-20Khz at 8 ohms both channels driven, 65 RMS maybe being 40hz-20Khz or one channel driven. Either way nice catch!


 
  Thank you for the info!


----------



## sling5s

Really disappointed with the 90's Pioneer.  Doesn't compare to the 70's Pioneer.


----------



## trentino

Indeed, wonderful looking stuff Parula.
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Very nice, Parula!


----------



## moodyrn

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that gear belongs to crazyray, and those pics are copied from a previous post. I remember that post from a while back, and it was what first prompted my interest in one day acquiring my own ka-907. But if I'm wrong, very nice setup indeeed.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I just picked this up at a flea-market for 30 bucks, wow the headphone out is magnificent! It drives my HD-650/600 with more authority then my Lyr(actually sounds more plush as well).
> 
> Does anyone have any info on Lafayette?


 

 Fantastic score. You were able to find something that you like more than the lyr, which also competes above it's asking price, for 30.00? Nice indeed. There are some good gems out there that have gone undiscovered. It just shows there's more out there than the marantzs, sansui, pannys etc of the world. Enjoy.


----------



## monoethylene




----------



## sling5s

Out of all the Pioneer SX series.  Which is the best price to performance ratio.  This is specifically for headphones-LCD-2 and Magnums.  I have the SX-737 and want to upgrade.  
  I wish I could afford the SX-1250, but can't really afford anything above SX-1_ _ _ but am thinking of SX-850?
   
  Is it worth upgrading from SX-737 to SX-850?
  Or is the jump not significant until the SX-1250 and up?
   
  thanks


----------



## Skylab

SX-850/950 or SX-880/980 would be good choices - get the 950 or 980 if you can afford them, these regularly sell for $300 in very good condition.


----------



## sling5s

Thanks.  I'll be on the look out.  I heard good things about the 850.  I heard that X50 are warmer than X80.  Is that true?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> SX-850/950 or SX-880/980 would be good choices - get the 950 or 980 if you can afford them, these regularly sell for $300 in very good condition.


----------



## Lee Harvey

This is my new Marantz 2250 that I picked up this week.  It is in very good condition.  I also got the original owners manual, warranty  registration card and schematic for the unit.  The original owner purchased it in December of 1976.  I have removed its covers and DeOxit'd all the switches and knobs.  The speaker output is sounding amazing after being powered on for a couple of days.  I have one issue with the headphone jack having a noise and static issue.  I have a new 1/4" jack on order to replace the current one.  It sounds so good at this time that will probably wait before giving it a re-capping.
   




   
  I am really impressed the build quality of this 36 year old unit.  It was absolutely clean on the inside.


----------



## Skylab

sling5s said:


> Thanks.  I'll be on the look out.  I heard good things about the 850.  I heard that X50 are warmer than X80.  Is that true?




I would say just slightly, yes.


----------



## trentino

Very sweet looking 2250! Congrats, I hope you get the hp out up and running!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, Lee Harvey (Oswald?), that is one sweet looking Marantz! Congrats.


----------



## BmWr75

@Lee Harvey - there is not much to a HP jack. Maybe try cleaning the contact points with a q-tip or pipe cleaner and some Deoxit first.  2nd I'd try reflowing the solder joints where the wires connect to the jack.


----------



## trentino

Oh man. I have a shot at getting a M2325, original box , papers and wood cabinet. I will have to sell my HDP and M2270 and add a big buck to get it, but I think I have to do it.


----------



## Skylab

The 2325 is a very, very fine piece.


----------



## trentino

Yes I know! And insanely hard to come by here in Sweden. It's the first one I hear about (haven't seen one either) actually. The vintage journey continues!


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> @Lee Harvey - there is not much to a HP jack. Maybe try cleaning the contact points with a q-tip or pipe cleaner and some Deoxit first.  2nd I'd try reflowing the solder joints where the wires connect to the jack.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed, Lee Harvey (Oswald?), that is one sweet looking Marantz! Congrats.


 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





trentino said:


> Very sweet looking 2250! Congrats, I hope you get the hp out up and running!


 
   
  Thanks Guys!  I am really happy with the way it sounds, very tube-like.  I have currently have a Marantz MM9000 5 channel amp and a SR7500 AV receiver.  They all have that signature Marantz sound but the 2250 cranks it up another notch.  I did open it up and DeOxit the headphone jack with a Q-tip but it is still noisy.  I figured if I was going to get the soldering iron out I should just replace the HP jack. I did some shopping last weekend and I got a Pioneer SX-780 coming from E-bay.  I will post some pictures of that when it shows up next week.


----------



## nick n

Got this today works perfectly. Hard to believe it's ~30 years old this thing is immaculate.
  One down from the TOTL in it's day. The TOTL A-X77 had a torroidal transformer but specs and build are much the same, varying only minimally.
  Victor / JVC A-X55 Integrated Dynamic Super-A  apparently not too common.
  Did far too much thinking and researching and waiting it out, then heard it demo'ed at the seller's place, that was game over for my wallet.
  Solid, not much if any plastic bitties here. Solid aluminum faceplate even the drop down door is thick aluminum also. Yep it's a big one.
   In the process of hooking up now. 
  not shown is the excellent lighting just above the selectors there is a tiny strip of colour. Tops of the selectors are slightly recessed.
  Nope I know better than to use windex on stuff like this, it's just in the background from using it on something else.
   
  BTW What happened to side by side pictures option.


----------



## wualta

An understated integrated. That and a dynamic-bias scheme to kill notch distortion, plus a plethora of controls. Suh-wheat.


----------



## machoboy

So far after trying out several headphone amps in the $100-200 range I still prefer my 1984 Pioneer integrated.
   
  People who already own these sorts of amps but ignore them and go out and buy a $50 fiio just because it says "headphone" on the box really don't know what they're missing.


----------



## machoboy

...The same mutated freaks who listen to mp3s instead of vinyl I guess.


----------



## pp312

I'd put a smiley after that sentence if I were you, machoboy.


----------



## ardgedee

Vinyl sounds great but it's no good in a portable system. Some people simply can't fit full-sized equipment of any kind into their living situation.
   
  For that matter, I have some excellent headphones really only work well on lower-powered dedicated headphone amps. They sound awful through the same receiver that makes my HE-6 sound its best. 
   
  Everything has its place.


----------



## machoboy

how about this one


----------



## machoboy

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Vinyl sounds great but it's no good in a portable system. Some people simply can't fit full-sized equipment of any kind into their living situation.
> 
> For that matter, I have some excellent headphones really only work well on lower-powered dedicated headphone amps. They sound awful through the same receiver that makes my HE-6 sound its best.
> 
> Everything has its place.


 
  My Pioneer is bad for portable use too. I tried rollerskating around with it on a wheeled cart but the cops stopped me for questioning


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Vinyl sounds great but it's no good in a portable system.


 
   
   
  I don't know why. It shouldn't be any problem to hang a turntable off your belt. You just need to walk very slowly so as not to upset the bias compensation, that's all.
   
  Geez, some people, they just want every convenience.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





machoboy said:


> So far after trying out several headphone amps in the $100-200 range I still prefer my 1984 Pioneer integrated.
> 
> People who already own these sorts of amps but ignore them and go out and buy a $50 fiio just because it says "headphone" on the box really don't know what they're missing.


 

 Hell, I'm building a $300+ M^3 amp, and even then it'll be a contest to see if it can outclass my SX-780. These things are impressive


----------



## roscoofyore

my latest purchase.  I present the mighty McIntosh C-26 pre-amp, needs cleaning and routine maintenance.  I just need an amp worthy.  suggestions please lads.  cheers always.  roger


----------



## pp312

Does it ever come out into the light?


----------



## Rawrbington

Picked up this dainty thing today.
   
  the headphone out sounds pretty darn good.


----------



## captouch

KR-9050?



rawrbington said:


> Picked up this dainty thing today.
> 
> the headphone out sounds pretty darn good.


----------



## BmWr75

Looks just like my KR-9050.  Congratulations!!


----------



## Lee Harvey

This Pioneer SX-780 showed up from Ebay earlier this week.  The seller said that the volume control was a little scratchy but I cleared that up with some DeOxit.  It has a more forward sound than the Marantz 2250 and lacks its tube-like sound.  But it is clear with very tight bass and little less detailed highs than the Marantz.  I think this will be my first candidate for a re-capping and that should smooth out the highs.


----------



## OPR8R

So I found a Rotel RA-1312 at a local store for around $160 so I tried it out.  Unfortunately, when I got it upstairs (the store is downstairs of my apt.) I found the headphone jack wasn't working correctly: I couldn't get sound to the right ear.  This was unfortunate, because the left ear of my LCD-2 sounded awesome.  I took it back for a refund, but I can't stop thinking about that left ear.  I'm thinking about it now, as I listen to the same headphones through my Headroom Micro stack.
   
  I wonder what it would cost to have that repaired?


----------



## Maverickmonk

Gorgeous amp!
  
  Note: I'd avoid recapping the tuner board, since there are many capacitors in there that are next to heat sensitive chips, and it';s very easy to mess up some unobtainium parts. Also, for the 2 large, main filter caps, I'd recommend [size=11.0pt]http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UKW1H103MRD/?qs=kArNe9LFxXlXU%2f0N8Vy%252byg%3d%3d[/size]
[size=11.0pt]They are one of the few capacitors that fit the original capacitor lead spacing and still fit next to each other, without having to get creative (and messy) with the mounting.

 Have fun and enjoy! I have a 2245 and an SX-780, and I hope to not need to sell either, because I find they compliment each other very well. With the capacitors replaced on my SX780, I noticed the graininess in the highs disapeared, and although sharper than my Marantz, it was more detailed, and through my HE-400's sounds beautiful.[/size]
  
  Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> This Pioneer SX-780 showed up from Ebay earlier this week.  The seller said that the volume control was a little scratchy but I cleared that up with some DeOxit.  It has a more forward sound than the Marantz 2250 and lacks its tube-like sound.  But it is clear with very tight bass and little less detailed highs than the Marantz.  I think this will be my first candidate for a re-capping and that should smooth out the highs.


----------



## stevensctt

This is fun, just starting out with vintage receivers.
   
  This past weekend's Craigslist Score

 Kenwood KR9600 (close to mint) circa 1977

 Klipsch Heresy HBR circa 1975?  Should receive risers for the Heresy in the next day or so.

 Can't exceed much more than 1 on the volume control!
   
  Very enamored with this at the moment.

 Also picked up a Sansui 8080.  Some work being done including new LEDs and new wood veneer casing.  I'll post photos once done.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, that's a pretty sweet rig right there, Klipsch + Kenwood! Nice.


----------



## Rawrbington

stevensctt said:


> This is fun, just starting out with vintage receivers.
> 
> This past weekend's Craigslist Score
> 
> ...




Man that is clean. Wish my fortes were in that nice a condition.
I just picked up that kenwood 9050 2 days ago and I'm using it with my klipsch.

You aren't joking about barely having to exceed 1.
And they play nicely together.
Congrats on the great score.

On the 8080 I noticed that there is a real wood veneer under the vinyl. So I just stripped the vinyl and refinished the real wood. Very easy.

Which do you prefer? The sansui or the Kenny?
That's probably a tough question. I notice I tend to prefer which ever amp is driving my klipsch.
Congrats again. I'm jealous


----------



## buencamino

Hi guys, may I ask if you need a speaker attached to a maratnz 4400 in order to get it to work? I just had mine fixed... and the technician said that it's not advisable to connect the headphones to the marantz, I need to have a speaker attached to it otherwise the amp will not function well? The receiver/amp is designed to send signals to four speakers (or more), and having no speakers attached to it and only the headphone is (as said by our technician) not advisable...? is that true? Thanks.


----------



## Rawrbington

i know i run my marantz with the speaker switches turned off all the time, playing headphones only.  not sure how that would be any different since it just opens the circuit .  if the speaker selector switch is set to off, i don't think the amp has any idea that there is a speaker load there or not.
   
  but then again im not a tech


----------



## ardgedee

Non-OTL tube amps should never be powered up without a load.
   
  Solid state amps are generally tolerant of running without a load, but I'm not knowledgeable about the Marantz 4400 specifically.
   
  For older amps and receivers, headphones are powered by the same amplifier circuit powering the speakers, so even if the amp is not allowed to run unloaded, a pair of headphones should be acceptable. I've run headphones on non-OTL vintage integrated amps multiple times without consequences; the technician I had inspect them didn't see a problem with me doing this.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





maverickmonk said:


> Gorgeous amp!
> 
> Note: I'd avoid recapping the tuner board, since there are many capacitors in there that are next to heat sensitive chips, and it';s very easy to mess up some unobtainium parts. Also, for the 2 large, main filter caps, I'd recommend [size=11.0pt]http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UKW1H103MRD/?qs=kArNe9LFxXlXU%2f0N8Vy%252byg%3d%3d[/size]
> [size=11.0pt]They are one of the few capacitors that fit the original capacitor lead spacing and still fit next to each other, without having to get creative (and messy) with the mounting.
> ...


 
  I won't be touching the tuning sections of either receiver.  I don't have the knowledge or the equipment to fine tune a FM section.  I will be looking to replace the main filter caps and the caps on the amplifier boards.  Thank you for the link to the Nichicon filter caps.  The SX-780 has more power than its 45 watt rating suggests.  It is able to drive my very power hungry DQ-10's as well as my higher end 200 watt mono amps.  I am going to be looking for some different speakers to pair with either the 2250 or the SX-780.  Maybe something like the JBL L100's, 4311 or the Yamaha NS-1000 if I can catch a deal on them.  My dream speakers the Harbeth Compact 7-ES3's are $4K out my reach at this time.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





stevensctt said:


> This is fun, just starting out with vintage receivers.
> 
> This past weekend's Craigslist Score
> 
> ...


 
  That's a real pretty Kenny you got there!  Also I have always loved the Heresy's.  Now that I have the vintage receiver bug I will be looking to add some 100+ watt Realistic, Sansui and Kenwood iron to add to my collection.


----------



## musicman59

Sombody is selling me a [size=12pt]Sansui AU-719[/size] in mint condition for $430. Is that a fair price? It looks like this one in the picture. it seems a little high to me.


----------



## OJNeg

I picked up a (similar) Sansui AU-D9 for $20 on Craigslist a few weeks ago. I'm still working on getting a recap done and replacing some components. I can tell you that the unit is absolutely a beast and a very high quality vintage amp. The 719 is indeed high end, but I'm not so sure it's worth that price tag. I'd try to negotiate it down.


----------



## Skylab

I think the price is a bit high too from what I have seen. Plus you have to look inside and out to determine if it is mint or not.


----------



## stevensctt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Man that is clean. Wish my fortes were in that nice a condition.
> I just picked up that kenwood 9050 2 days ago and I'm using it with my klipsch.
> You aren't joking about barely having to exceed 1.
> And they play nicely together.
> ...


 
  Thanks.  The Heresy's were not in great shape cosmetically when I picked them up.  There were water stains, dried paint patches, surface scratches. etc.  After spending about 30 minutes sanding with xtra-fine sandpaper and then applying Howards Restore A Finish, the speakers are now very presentable.  The raw birch is a very easy veneer to spruce up.  Restore A Finish is a great product but only with open grain woods (Oak, Walnut, etc.). 
   
  Only used the Sansui 8080 for a short time, but found the 8080 warmer and darker than the Kenwood.  The Kenwood is very neutral with a driving bass.  I'll post photos of the 8080 when done.  I'm having a Cherry Veneer applied to the case.


----------



## OPR8R

OK, went back to the shop and found a Kenwood KR-6030.  This doesn't complete erase my regret for not holding onto the 70's Pioneer my dad handed down to me in the 80's, but man the Japanese made some good amps back then.


----------



## sling5s

Just scored a Pioneer SX-850.  Will pick up Monday.  It will be interesting to compare it with SX-737.


----------



## Ultrainferno

Hey guys, a friend of mine found this at his place, a KENWOOD KR 3130
  Pic here: http://instagram.com/p/JYJtGQDijG/
   
  Is anything known about it? Is it worth to get cleaned up? (He'd use it with speakers, not headphones)


----------



## monoethylene

Has someone an idea how to connect the 7000 and the Six in this way that the Six is the preamp???


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Has someone an idea how to connect the 7000 and the Six in this way that the Six is the preamp???


 
   
  If the Six has preamp outs, just pull the jumpers between the 7000's preamp out and preamp in and plug the Six's preamp out to the 7000's preamp in.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> @Lee Harvey - there is not much to a HP jack. Maybe try cleaning the contact points with a q-tip or pipe cleaner and some Deoxit first.  2nd I'd try reflowing the solder joints where the wires connect to the jack.


 
   
  I opened up the 2250 and removed the headphone jack, cleaned it, clipped the old wire ends off and re-soldered it.  Now it sounds clean without any static.  I was thinking about ordering a Mjolnir but I think I will have more fun playing with the 2250 and the SX-780 for now.  The SX-780's headphone jack is really powerful.  The volume knob starts at the 7:00 position but the 8:30 position is about the volume limit for my HD-650's.  I see no issue for this thing to drive a set of HE-6's.


----------



## BmWr75




----------



## joehalo

Yamaha CR-820 I found at a local thrift store : ) I love it


----------



## manveru

Nice Yammy again.


----------



## joehalo

Quote: 





manveru said:


> Nice Yammy again.


 





 thanks again lol


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I opened up the 2250 and removed the headphone jack, cleaned it, clipped the old wire ends off and re-soldered it.  Now it sounds clean without any static.  I was thinking about ordering a Mjolnir but I think I will have more fun playing with the 2250 and the SX-780 for now.  The SX-780's headphone jack is really powerful.  The volume knob starts at the 7:00 position but the 8:30 position is about the volume limit for my HD-650's.  I see no issue for this thing to drive a set of HE-6's.


 

 Glad to hear you got the headphone jack all sorted out. As for the volume, I have the same problem with my SX-780! I read somewhere along the line that the volume pot is linear, although I'll have to check that. If it is, I may wire a shunt resistor to it to try to give it more control. I can barely touch the volume knob before it gets crazy loud with my HE-400's.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Its not sorted out at this time.  The static in the volume control is gone but now I get some distortion in the left channel from time to time when using headphones. I have tried my both my D5000's and HD-650's.  I have been running speakers on it for about 3 hours this morning and the speaker output is fine, no noise or static issues. I am thinking about finding a local service center and have them sort it out.


----------



## monoethylene

Sansui Eight And Sansui 7000
   

   
   
  2325
   

   
   
  Six


----------



## weverb

Well, stevensctt introduced me to the idea of a vintage system. After seeing his success on CL and lurking through this thread, I decided to give it a try. I was able to pick a set of Pioneer CS-G403 speakers and a Pioneer SX-950 for $300 today. Had to drive 2.5 hours round trip to pick them up. The seller even let me have a Pioneer CT-F750 as part of the deal. The seller was great guy with a full vintage McIntosh system and some 60's JBL monster speakers.
   
  The speakers are in great shape. Drivers look nearly new. Not the greatest and too big to fit in any of my rooms. I will probably flip them.
   
  The 950 is in good shape. It makes no odd noises through any connection or controls. Looks like just the FM and Stereo indicators need new bulbs. Also the light above the tuner dial is out. Should be easy to fix. Now I just need to learn how to clean this baby up. Any links on servicing the 950 would be great.
   
  I am listening to FM currently through some cheap headphones as I type. Sounds great. Based on lurking, looks like the HD650's and LCD-2 would be good phones to match with the 950. What others do you all recommend to get started or introduced to headphones? I would also be interested in trying some vintage phones too. I just missed out on a set of Audio Technica AT-705's.
   
  Also, looks like some one near by is selling a Sansui G-8000 for $399. Good/fair deal? Worth looking at if still available?
   
  Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences. It made my first step easier.
   
  Sorry, not letting me post pics right now.


----------



## captouch

weverb said:


> Well,stevensctt introduced me to the idea of a vintage system. After seeing his success on CL and lurking through this thread, I decided to give it a try. I was able to pick a set of Pioneer CS-G403 speakers and a Pioneer SX-950 for $300 today. Had to drive 2.5 hours round trip to pick them up. The seller even let me have a Pioneer CT-F750 as part of the deal. The seller was great guy with a full vintage McIntosh system and some 60's JBL monster speakers.
> 
> The speakers are in great shape. Drivers look nearly new. Not the greatest and too big to fit in any of my rooms. I will probably flip them.
> 
> ...




Congrats on your entry into the vintage world - I've only started myself within the last six months, but it's been a lot of fun.

As far as headphones, consider usage first. Will these be for home use (so you don't need to drive them with portable player or portable amp) and will your listening environment be such that you can you live with open cans? What's your budget and view on diminishing returns - is bang-for-buck more important or ultimate SQ?

HD650's are great if bang-for-buck is important, open cans are OK, and you'll be listening a lot at home. As you've probably read, they scale well with better equipment so there's room to grow sonically over time, and they aren't as hard to drive as some like orthos. You should be able to pick some up used for $300-350 - hard to beat that price for what you get.

I also like the Hifiman ortho line. HE-500 is especially popular and IMO not so different sound signature wise from HD650, but it's $500-550 used. Heard good things about HE-400, which is cheaper, but never heard them myself.

If home use is your main goal, I would hold off on getting a dedicated HP amp and see how happy you are with using your vintage receivers to drive your cans. They generally have more than enough power and sound great. Had I ventured into vintage receivers before headphone amps, I could have saved some $.

As far as the G-8000, haven't heard it, but have 3 Sansui's myself so am a real fan of their 70's stuff. IMO, $399 is non-trivial, so consider your objectives prior to pulling the trigger. You already have a relatively high power receiver in the 950 - what are you going after now?

Good luck and enjoy the 950.


----------



## sling5s

I've just compared the Pioneer sx-737 vs sx-850.  The sx-737 has more bass and more punch.  It's not as detailed and refined as the sx-850 but it's more fun and musical.


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Congrats on your entry into the vintage world - I've only started myself within the last six months, but it's been a lot of fun.
> As far as headphones, consider usage first. Will these be for home use (so you don't need to drive them with portable player or portable amp) and will your listening environment be such that you can you live with open cans? What's your budget and view on diminishing returns - is bang-for-buck more important or ultimate SQ?
> HD650's are great if bang-for-buck is important, open cans are OK, and you'll be listening a lot at home. As you've probably read, they scale well with better equipment so there's room to grow sonically over time, and they aren't as hard to drive as some like orthos. You should be able to pick some up used for $300-350 - hard to beat that price for what you get.
> I also like the Hifiman ortho line. HE-500 is especially popular and IMO not so different sound signature wise from HD650, but it's $500-550 used. Heard good things about HE-400, which is cheaper, but never heard them myself.
> ...


 
   
  captouch,
   
  Thanks for the response!
   
  As for cans, they will be only for home use. I am after bang-for-buck to get started to make sure I enjoy them first. If I find myself really getting into them, then I will start to upgrade. That's why I mentioned vintage phones too. I would be willing to try both open and closed cans. I know open cans tend to have a more spacious sound stage.
   
  Now as for the G-8000, I thought I could possibly get a fair deal on such a powerful amp only being 10-15 minutes away. Rare for where I live. I was going to just try the Sansui sound so I have some thing to compare against the Pioneer.  See which I like better. The Pioneer is my only base line. I am also interested in comparing these two against the integrated amp in my 2 channel rig (Simaudio i5.3).
   
  I have been listening to the 950 the last two nights with fm and some cheap Sony phones. Sounds good so far. The best these cheap phones have ever sounded for sure. I am waiting until after the major cleaning to hook it up to my dac and really critique the sound.


----------



## captouch

weverb said:


> captouch,
> 
> Thanks for the response!
> 
> ...




The HD650's are very smooth, somewhat laid back cans. Treble a little rolled off. Very non-fatiguing to listen to. If that suits your music and tastes, definitely check them out - they're one of the most "loved" cans you'll find and its appreciation thread is among the most active here on Head-Fi. If you buy a pair used for $300-350, you can resell them for about the same price if they don't suit you. I've bought all my cans used, btw, and never had any issues - you should be fine if you buy from a reliable seller with good feedback. Head-Fi For Sale forums is where I bought 3 of my 4 full size cans, with the fourth being purchased from Warehouse Deals (Amazon).

For the G-8000, the price doesn't seem anything special IMO. If that's the model you really want and have done research to back that up, then if it's in full working condition and excellent cosmetic condition, I think it's a reasonable price (esp if it's local and you don't have to pay shipping). But if you're not focused on that particular model and are a little patient, chances are you can score a better deal. To give you an idea, I purchased 4 nice receivers in the past few months for a total of $340 - none were as powerful as the G-8000 (two were ~60W/ch, one ~40W/ch, and one only 15W/ch for driving headphones not speakers), but 3/4 are in excellent working and cosmetic condition, and all except the 15W (which I didn't even try) drive my not very efficient IMF TLS50 MkII's to louder than tolerable volume levels without going above 2-3 on the volume dial.

So consider whether you really need "such a powerful amp". Not sure what your speakers are and how sensitive they are, but old school watts go a long way. 

I would think about what you want to achieve with your next receiver - do you want a tubey sound to contrast with the 950, something comparable but just a different brand/model, etc. If you buy without having a goal, you may end up buying more and more as you refine what you're looking for - not that there's anything wrong with that. 

To give you an idea of my path: The first vintage receiver I picked up was a Yamaha CR-220 (late '70's), purely to use with speaker taps and orthodynamic cans. I wasn't focused on any brand/sound - just a cheap vintage receiver that had plenty of power compared to dedicated HP amps. Yamaha is thought to have a very neutral, non-colored sound signature and I've found that to be the case.

Next was a Kenwood KR-6060 (same as KR-6050, also late 70's vintage like Yamaha), also originally for speaker tap/orthodynamic use. Again, I wasn't focused on any particular brand, it just popped up on CL locally for very cheap and was in great condition. I'm now using it with speakers. Kenwood from what I've read is also fairly neutral, but a bit warmer/more colored than Yamahas. I would agree with that - more full/tad warmer than Yamaha, but not as warm as Sansui's.

Then I got fixated on the Sansui line in particular because it had so many fans and their build quality in early to mid 70's was supposed to be among the best. 

Got a little impatient and spent more than I would have preferred (in retrospect) on a near-mint 7070 (this isn't included among the four receivers referred to above since it's not an example of getting a great deal), but it did fulfill my desire for a Sansui. 7070 is later 70's vintage, not the top Sansui build quality (relatively speaking), warmer than the Kenwood, but less warm among the '70's Sansui line.

Then found a cheap QR-6500 on eBay, which is early 70's Sansui. Great build quality (50lbs, full wood case, knobs secured with set screws, etc) and has some unique retro features like the quad decoder and cool display for 2/4 channel usage. Very warm, less detailed, bass less tight, older amp architecture. Noticeably different from 7070.

Finally, got an Eight Deluxe locally, also for a very good price. This is an early-to-mid '70's model, more advanced amp design vs QR-6500 - kind of between the 6500 and the 7070. It sounds more similar to 7070, but I find it to be more musical and while wattage is similar, it seems to have more power (listening to it right now with volume level at 1). 

Bang for buck is my philosophy as well, and if I had to do it all over again, I would buy everything again except the 7070 - not because it doesn't sound good (it does), but because it was the most expensive and ended up not being better than the Eight Deluxe. But chronologically, it was my first Sansui, so I can't fault myself too much except for a lack of patience. As it stands, I can say that each receiver has a sufficiently different sound signature that I can justify keeping them.

Besides liking to talk about my own receivers , the point is that the G-8000 priced as it is may be equivalent to my 7070 - something that's very good on its own, but perhaps not what you would select at that price point later or as best bang-for-buck should you do more research. 

If you look on Audiokarma or in this thread, you'll see a lot of affection for the single digit Sansui line (Six, Seven, Eight, Eight Deluxe, and 7000 is included as well) from early/mid '70's due to sound quality and build quality. Respectively, you could probably get them roughly for $75-100, $100-150, $150-200, $200-350, $175-225). You probably saw monoethylene's pictures of his Six, Eight, 7000 a few posts above - they are really cool receivers - and if it was me, I would consider keeping an eye out for one of these as a potential next purchase to compare against your 950.

As always, just my opinion, but I don't think anything above strays too far from conventional thinking.

Good luck.


----------



## weverb

captouch,
   
  Thanks for all the good info and sharing your thoughts and experiences. The HD650's have always been on my list to try. Even before getting into vintage receivers. I also had the HD600's and AKG K701/702's on the list. Mostly because of the reviews and comments found on line. I have now way to listen to any of these before purchasing though. I saw some interesting vintage phones on epay. They were AKG K340's, Pioneer SE L40's, and Audio Technica AT 706/705's. The Pioneer's seem to have mixed reviews from what I could find. Would be fun to have displayed with the 950 though.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Finally caught up!
   
  You guys have some of the coolest stuff.  I've been listening happily along - so happily that I haven't been on Head-Fi - on my vintage Marantz setups.  I'm playing the Marantz 2220 in the bedroom right now, and it's as smooth as ever.  The 2235B in the living room still has no lights, but sounds excellent.
   
  Both drive every headphone I have - including the K1000 - perfectly.  In fact, when I picked up the K1000, the same seller had an SAC KH-1000 amp, the purpose built one for he K1000's.  I bought it, too.  I've had it out, listened to it, and put it back in the box.  Why bother?  The 2220 sounds better.  (Come to think of it, why am I not listening to the K1000's now?  I can change that!)
   
  I'm considering selling the Headroom Millet Hybrid stack in the computer room, and using another vintage integrated.  I'm considering a vintage integrated for the office.
   
  Yep, couldn't be happier.  I wish "irebuildmarantz" wasn't quite as slow with his queue or that I hadn't given him the big deposits, but that's my bad.  I've been holding off on major work on these because I am in his queue, and it is, slowly, making progress.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Question about vintage stax:
   
  Some months back, someone asked if anyone used vintage Stax with their vintage amp.  I do; I have an SRD-7 energizer driving some hard-worn SR-X Mk3's.  I think they sound great, although I've had a couple of people ask if they're part of a Steampunk costume.  (Round metal ear cups, leather band, cloth-covered cable... and high voltage!  I guess they are steampunky...)
   
  Someone mentioned something about a mod for the SRD-7 that would give you a high bias and a low bias jack?  That would be pretty great... is there any other information about that around?
   
  As a note, I have the Marantz Electrostatic headphones and energizer.  They look really cool, and match the gear, but clamp too hard and sound lousy compared to the Stax.  Give them a pass.


----------



## sling5s

Anyone using their loudness button?  I have not used it on any vintage receiver before the Pioneer SX-850, but it's too lean and lifeless without it.
  The Sansui G-3000, Pioneer SX-737 and Marantz 2215B, 2230B all had too much bass with the loudness button, but the SX-850, it sounds just right.


----------



## Skylab

Not Loudness, but on the SX-1980, I use the bottom of the two bass controls to ass 2 dB at 50 Hz, which I really like.  One should not be afraid to use tone controls


----------



## Lee Harvey

I have not found a need for using the Loudness switch on either my SX-780 or Marantz 2250.  I have found that both receivers are capable of delivering powerful bass without using the Loudness switch for my HD650's or D5000's.  Now on the 2250 I find the treble a little rolled off so I have adjusted the Mid and Treble nobs up a notch.  And I have not been struck down dead by the Audiophile Gods for committing such a crime!


----------



## OldSkool

No loudness switch used here either on my 2226B. I have itunes EQ set to flat and turned off. On the Marantz, the bass and midrange controls are straight up at 12, treble knob is down one click. SQ is absolutely perfect to my ears!
   
  Confession...This Marantz 2226B/HE-500 combo sounds so good, I haven't listened to my beloved Lyr in weeks. However, with temps falling I may fire the Lyr up for winter listening.


----------



## Silent One

Have not done so to date, with the SX-D7000. Using D7000 cans, things sound right. But now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you've got me curious; will explore tomorrow night!


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





lou erickson said:


> Someone mentioned something about a mod for the SRD-7 that would give you a high bias and a low bias jack...
> 
> As a note, I have the Marantz Electrostatic headphones and energizer.  They look really cool, and match the gear, but clamp too hard and sound lousy compared to the Stax.  Give them a pass.


 
  RE the mod pcb for the SRD-7, Spritzer is your man. He was selling them for awhile; don't know if he still is. Or you can watch for an SRD-7 Mk 2 (or an SRD-7 Professional, but that one gives you two high-bias jacks).
   
  I was pleasantly surprised by my Marantz SE-1, but I'm not using the Marantz transformer box. I already had my Magnavox 'stats wired in, so I plugged the SE-1 into that. I don't know if that would improve your impression of your SE-1, but a box swap might be worth a try. You should be able to reduce the clamping force by slightly unbending the headband.


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





wualta said:


> I was pleasantly surprised by my Marantz SE-1, but I'm not using the Marantz transformer box. I already had my Magnavox 'stats wired in, so I plugged the SE-1 into that. I don't know if that would improve your impression of your SE-1, but a box swap might be worth a try.


 

 Assuming the wiring is pinned the same though right? Wasn't there some deviation in these Stax clones as far as pin-outs?
   
  Also I love using the tone defeat on this integrated , best thing ever.


----------



## wualta

Yes, all the SR-3 mutants Stax OEM'd for Magnavox, Marantz and Radio Shack use the same connectors and are interchangeable, but the plug wiring is not the same as Stax-branded SR-3s, or Stax-branded anything, for that matter.
   
  So, you like the tone defeat switch on the JVC A-X55, eh?


----------



## Lou Erickson

Quote: 





wualta said:


> RE the mod pcb for the SRD-7, Spritzer is your man. He was selling them for awhile; don't know if he still is. Or you can watch for an SRD-7 Mk 2 (or an SRD-7 Professional, but that one gives you two high-bias jacks).
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised by my Marantz SE-1, but I'm not using the Marantz transformer box. I already had my Magnavox 'stats wired in, so I plugged the SE-1 into that. I don't know if that would improve your impression of your SE-1, but a box swap might be worth a try. You should be able to reduce the clamping force by slightly unbending the headband.


 
   
  Interesting.  If I can find a pinout I can build an adapter.  I thought the idea of a more closed 'stat would be good, but the sound was lackluster.  Maybe it is the box.
   
  I'll shoot Spritzer a PM and see what he has to say.  Worst case, he says no.  Thanks for the tip on that!  A high-bias socket would be excellent, and let me try some of the newer Stax.  So would getting off my lazy butt and building the exStata amp I have all the parts for, though.


----------



## wualta

All the pinout info you need is right here... somewhere... on HF, possibly in one of the long Stax threads. I always considered the SE-1 to be the best of the SR-3 Mutants (or "clones", though they're too different to be true clones). So if you don't hear good sound out of yours, one of the things to try first would be a different box. However.. you do have to be prepared to find that your sample lived a hard life and isn't going to sound better without an overhaul. I hope it's less painful than that. Get with the Spritzer-crowd and keep us posted.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> No loudness switch used here either on my 2226B. I have itunes EQ set to flat and turned off. On the Marantz, the bass and midrange controls are straight up at 12, treble knob is down one click. SQ is absolutely perfect to my ears!
> 
> Confession...This Marantz 2226B/HE-500 combo sounds so good, I haven't listened to my beloved Lyr in weeks. However, with temps falling I may fire the Lyr up for winter listening.


 
  the part about the HE500 is encouraging.  been eyeballing them or the LCD2 for a while now.  would most likely power with my 2245 or 2270 since the WA2 might not have the juice for em.
   
  i play my stuff flat for headphones and my marantz's flat for speakers, but do turn the bass knob to 1 ocklock on my Sansui and Kenwood for speakers.


----------



## Rossliew

I just picked up a Kenwood KA5500 yesterday and been listening with my old HD555 through the headphone jack. Wow! Didn't expect it to have so much power coming out of it and I had to switch on the attenuator so I can have some leeway with the volume control. I must say this amp is pretty neutral sounding with a touch of warmth. Very strong bass even with tone defeat on.

Anyone tried this amp with a HE-6?


----------



## stevensctt

See next post


----------



## stevensctt

Here is the Sansui 8080, after some completed work.

 Selector switch disassembled, cleaned with tarnish remover, ultrasonic and DeOxit

 Protection relay removed and contacts burnished and cleaned

 Replaced indicator lamps with LED

 Replaced dial and meter lamps with LED

 Cleaned all switches and controls

 Aligned FM for optimum performance

 Aligned audio output stages to factory specs

 Removed vinyl laminate on wood case and replaced with Cherry Veneer. Finished only with boiled Linseed Oil at the moment.

 Looks and Sounds Great!


----------



## BmWr75

Very nice work Stephen!!


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





stevensctt said:


> Removed vinyl laminate on wood case and replaced with Cherry Veneer. Finished only with boiled Linseed Oil at the moment.


 
   
  Love the new veneer. Looks way better than the vinyl stuff.


----------



## Rawrbington

man that does look great.
   
  the previous owner of my 8080 said he peeled the original vinyl and then just stained or finished the wood underneath.  doesn't look as good as yours though steven. 
  Was there real wood under your vinyl veneer?


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> man that does look great.
> 
> the previous owner of my 8080 said he peeled the original vinyl and then just stained or finished the wood underneath.  doesn't look as good as yours though steven.
> Was there real wood under your vinyl veneer?


 
   
  Can you post a picture of yours?  I have a 7070 and vinyl is OK for now, but in any case, the re-veneer looks better.  Wondering how hard it is to re-veneer and have it look professional.


----------



## Rawrbington

poor lighting and worse camera.  i'll throw up another tomorrow when i can get some good light
   
  if you look really close at the front corner thats at the very bottom of the pic, you can see some of the old vinyl peeling up that he didn't remove from that bottom wood trim piece that isn't actually attatched to the wood case


----------



## stevensctt

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> man that does look great.
> 
> the previous owner of my 8080 said he peeled the original vinyl and then just stained or finished the wood underneath.  doesn't look as good as yours though steven.
> Was there real wood under your vinyl veneer?


 

 There is a somewhat coarse, open grained plywood underneath the vinyl.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Quote: 





weverb said:


> Love the new veneer. Looks way better than the vinyl stuff.


 
   
  I have to agree.  The light wood color is unusual for a tuner of this age, but it looks great.  Excellent work!


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Today I picked up 4 Pioneers:
   
  SX 780 (seems 99% functional except for a bulb needing to be replaced)
  SX 737 - Does not power on
  SX 650 - Has a blown channel
  SX 880 - Has a blown channel
   
  According to the guy I got them from someone had hooked up a sub improperly to the 650 and the 880 resulting in their current states.  Sounds kinda sketch to me but for the price I am not complaining.  Unless it's a super easy fix for any of them, I'm thinking about maybe fixing the illumination and keeping just the 780 (I'll have 2 of them!) and ebaying the rest.  Thoughts on troubleshooting?


----------



## Skylab

Check the fuses on the 880.  IMHO that is the nicest of that lot for sure.  If it's just a fuse, it would be a great score.
   
  OTOH, the 880 uses an output device which does not have a modern equivalent/replacement.  So it the output is indeed blown, only getting lucky and finding one used would allow replacement, and that might not be cost effective.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Seems like the 880 is the best of the bunch.  I flipped it over and removed the bottom case to look at the fuses, they are all intact including the one in the back panel.  Flipped it over and removed the top and while extremely dirty I don't see any evidence of bad solder joints.  I guess that doesn't make it very easy.


----------



## Skylab

Well, if it is really dirty, you might bring it back to life just be a good treatment of Deoxit to all the controls and switches.


----------



## calipilot227

Picked up a Nad 7220PE at a thrift store today for $30. Plugged it in when I got home, but sadly there was no sound. It even smoked a little :blink: I was reading that the output transformers have a tendency to fail.

Is it worth fixing? I don't really need another receiver, already have a Pioneer SA-6500 II that I love (and it certainly looks cooler). If it's not incredibly difficult (and it's worth it), I'd like to fix it and pass it on to someone who can use it.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Didn't get any deoxit today but found out that the right channel plays very quietly in the 880 while the 650 is actually fully functional sans bulbs.  When switching to mono mode the sound actually gets a little better balanced with the 880.  The 650 and 880 IMO sound better than the 780 -- which is a shame because the 780 is the only one in relatively good cosmetic shape.


----------



## Rawrbington

I have a junker sx 650 that I love with headphones, it's just so ugly in its current condition. 

Got my 2270 back. After several months. Waiting on parts more than once, and tech day job emergencies. It had several issues, lots done wrong to it over its 40 years. 1 issue remains unresolved and will probably stay that way for the time being as it doesn't present itself under normal listening conditions for me.
Signal path recapped along with power supply and main filter caps.

Sounds great with my headphones. awesome.





its crazy how small it looks next to the Kenwood


----------



## Wharfrat

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Picked up a Nad 7220PE at a thrift store today for $30. Plugged it in when I got home, but sadly there was no sound. It even smoked a little
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I used to have the 7220PE.  I used it as a preamp to feed my EF5 tube amp, Later, I tried the headphone output on it and was pleasantly surprised at how good it sounded, but by that time I had the SX-1250 and 2275, so did not have a need to hang on to it.  I think it is worth saving, but if you intend to pass it along as a sale, check Ebay history to see what the price range is and decide if you can pocket some change.
   
  I have the SA-9500.  I agree on the looks and SQ.


----------



## Silent One

It is said, that if you want to get good quality sleep, do not surf the web right before bedtime. I'm going to bed now and just made the mistake of taking one last look at vintage electronics on Craigslist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And saw a SX-1250. Now w-i-d-e awake.


----------



## Rawrbington

HAHA!
  i know that feeling all too well.  
  You know you have a problem when you can't go to sleep because somebody put a piece of fine vintage equipment on Craigslist


----------



## Mr.Sneis

This could be good or bad.  I may be picking up a SX-950 today.  Maybe I'll hang onto a 780 and the 950 and sell the rest.


----------



## OJNeg

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Picked up a Nad 7220PE at a thrift store today for $30. Plugged it in when I got home, but sadly there was no sound. It even smoked a little
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The NAD has output transformers? You sure about that? I'm not sure why an '80s SS amp would need output transformers. Regardless, the transformers are one of the few parts that tend to stay in good condition even after years of use. It's usually the capacitors or silicon (transistors/diodes) that start to go first.
   
  Head over to HifiEngine and download the service manuals. I'd replace all the electrolytics in the power supply and amp board first thing. You'll probably want a multimeter to troubleshoot and double-check the circuit.


----------



## weverb

I just picked this up today to go with my SX-950. Plays and everything works great.
   

   

   
  I never did get to post a picture of my 950 and G8000. Here you go.


----------



## Skylab

Nice looking stuff!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





weverb said:


> I just picked this up today to go with my SX-950. Plays and everything works great.
> 
> 
> I never did get to post a picture of my 950 and G800. Here you go.


 
   
  Congrats! You also look well positioned to entertain over the holidays..._what's the address again? _


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Nice looking stuff!


 
   
  Trying to model after your amazing set up.


----------



## ericfarrell85

My Marantz 2285 has developed a whir in the left tape monitor channel. It's very slight, a buzz so to speak, like bacon sizzle, that's audible only during playback and completely black when nothing is being output. Buzz is most audible between tracks. Any ideas on what this can be? Oxidation? Failing capacitor? I suppose the unit has to be dissembled to get at the controls for a cleaning.


----------



## Skylab

If you switch the source select through its rotation cycle 10-12 times rapidly, does the problem lessen or go away? Try the same with the Tape Monitor tape/source buttons.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Thanks Rob, I'll try it once I get home and report back.


----------



## ericfarrell85

Unfortunately rotating the source selector has not helped the problem. The noise does not go away or lessen to any audible degree. Neither is there a change with rotating the tape monitor controls. I find when I rotate the balance dial entirely to the left channel there is an distortion and cackling noise. I'll likely dissemble the unit tomorrow and spray down all the controls with deoxit. Worst case scenario it'll go to the shop for capacitor replacement. Any other ideas I'm certainly open to listen.


----------



## Gallade475

Does anyone here have a good recommendation for a more mid priced receiver (around 100 bucks average) for hifiman he400 and BIC DV64
  tower speakers. I like neutral or slightly bright, and not warm and not cold. I've already ruled out all of marantz because they are simply too warm for my tastes.


----------



## calipilot227

You may be able to get a Pioneer SX-580 for that price. Pioneer receivers are fairly neutral.


----------



## Gallade475

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> You may be able to get a Pioneer SX-580 for that price. Pioneer receivers are fairly neutral.


 

      What do you say its key points are, treble clarity, Neutrality(as you mentioned),Clean Sound, low noise, Etc.? Anything smooth sounding is a big no-no. I despise smooth sound. It's only worth using if it sounds alive in my opinion. Not everything needs to be syrupy and liquid(I'm looking at YOU three HD-600, HD-558, and HD-650).


----------



## HawaiiFi

My two favorites that get the most play time are my Sansui 5000A and my NAD 3240PE. I love the sound of them both.


----------



## Gallade475

Actually, scratch receivers, i cant seem to find a good one at all. Even the vintage receivers seem too gimmicky. I'm going for an integrated amp. All controls affect the sound, no useless antenna inputs(I use Pandora anyways), no double phono stage (who_ uses_ a dual turntable setup?) and way more aesthetically pleasing with all the brushed aluminum. I LOVE Brushed Anodized aluminum. It looks absolutely stunning when used in electronics.
   
       So, with that declaration, what's a dynamically alive sounding AMP that has low end kick and nicely detailed and slightly bright highs, with a nice midrange?


----------



## calipilot227

gallade475 said:


> What do you say its key points are, treble clarity, Neutrality(as you mentioned),Clean Sound, low noise, Etc.? Anything smooth sounding is a big no-no. I despise smooth sound. It's only worth using if it sounds alive in my opinion. Not everything needs to be syrupy and liquid(I'm looking at YOU three HD-600, HD-558, and HD-650).




I would say it very clear, but definitely on the neutral side. The EQ controls do a very nice job of shaping the frequency response (and I don't usually use EQ), if you want to make it warm and smooth, you can. If you want to make it sound hard and edgy, you can (or anything in between). I haven't heard the SX-580, but this seems to be a common element among the Pioneer receivers/integrateds that I have heard.


----------



## Gallade475

Also, would you happen to know the house sound for a number of the vintage brands like Sansui, Sony, Kenwood, Nikko, Onkyo, etc. ?


----------



## Rawrbington

Based on the units i've had or spent time with, Kenwood, Sansui and Pioneer are all pretty similar in house sound.  in my experience Pioneer is slightly warmer, Sansui is slightly brighter and Kenwood is right in between.  But none of those three are overly warm or bright.
  Yamaha is pretty flat and dare i say sterile, Marantz is very warm and a tad bassy.


----------



## Gallade475

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Based on the units i've had or spent time with, Kenwood, Sansui and Pioneer are all pretty similar in house sound.  in my experience Pioneer is slightly warmer, Sansui is slightly brighter and Kenwood is right in between.  But none of those three are overly warm or bright.
> Yamaha is pretty flat and dare i say sterile, Marantz is very warm and a tad bassy.


 

 Ok. That makes It easier. I'm assuming since Sansui is Japanese, Sony will have a similar sound, or am I way off? I Need a bit of brightness because i'll be using some BIC DV64s and Hifiman He400, which are both warm sounding, and I Like my brightness but don't want to lose my 600 dollar Towers that i got for 200 bucks.


----------



## ardgedee

gallade475 said:


> I'm assuming since Sansui is Japanese, Sony will have a similar sound, or am I way off?




For receivers of the 1970s-1980s, Kenwood, Sansui, Pioneer, Yamaha, and Sony are all Japanese manufacture. Some Marantz and Harmon-Kardon as well. You can't really project a national character on the sound, and even the house sound of various brands evolved over the years.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed. And my experience is the Sansui is slightly warmer than Pioneer, but Pioneer is still ever so slightly warm of neutral. I had a big vntage Sony, and it was bright. But my Marantz (USA made) is warmest of them all.


----------



## moodyrn

Yep, they all have a different sound signature. And like ardegee said, some within the same brand have a different sound signature. My ka907 sounds totally different from the kr9600 I had and they are both totl kenwoods. Even my marantz 2330b sounds more different than I would have thought from the 2325 which is just one model older. Labling a country as having a certain sound is waaay off.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Right now my house is littered with Pioneer receivers.  Once I get some new illumination bulbs I'm hoping to re-sell most of them.  Will probably hang onto a 780 and the 950.  Wanted to keep the 880 but it's just not in as nice of condition as the two 780's.
   
  SX-737 - Not powering up, not a fuse problem, probably selling as-is.  Shame because if it was working it seems to look really cool!
  SX-650 - Works great just a little beat up, really could use new veneer
  SX-780 - Very nice condition, minor imperfections in the veneer - works great
  SX-780 - Very nice condition, minor imperfections in the veneer - works great
  SX-880 - A little beat up - works great, missing a knob and feet which I have since ordered
  SX-950 - Nice condition - works great, needs a new power cord
   
  Not bad considering last week half of them did not work properly.  I did a thorough cleaning for a few of them which were horribly horribly filthy ~ the PO's should be ashamed.  It seems the switches for Stereo/Mono was the likely culprit for the 950 and 880.  A de-oxit d5 + f5 bath helped to clear the issues and I even learned to bias the sx-950 in the process.  The x80 series seems to have an overall nicer and more solid feeling radio tuning knob rotation, the x50 series in contrast feels less smooth and less tight. I disagree with some of the comments I've seen on the web about how the x50 series visual style is nicer than the x80 style; I prefer the x80 series actually.
   
  Something worth noting here is that the pots and switches don't always have obviously noticeable holes for the de-oxit spray straw (I'm looking at you sx-950) so the solution was to just shoot de-oxit wherever possible and hope for the best.  None of the info I could find on the web was all that descriptive or graphic in this regard (would have been nice to have some "spray RIGHT here" images). 
   
  The x80 series was much easier in this regard; for toggle switches there are threaded holes in the front of the casing once you remove the faceplate and most of the pots have a side hole or square looking indent located top center for the spray.  For the sx-950 I ended up having to tear it down and undo the two boards from the chassis for volume and tone control and sprayed the pots and switches with the boards still attached by the wires.  For the sx-950 there were no front holes, side holes, or back holes for most of the switches and pots, just openings that didn't really appear to be for servicing.  Luckily de-oxit spray gets flipping everywhere so being accurate is not completely necessary.  Sorry for the rant, hope that helps someone!
   
  If anyone has tips re the power cord of the sx-950 please let me know!  I can't yet figure out how to un-do the strain relief without breaking it or what to replace it with if I do need to break it off.


----------



## Silent One

Some "spray RIGHT here" images would be of BIG help to me as well...


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Some "spray RIGHT here" images would be of BIG help to me as well...


 
  Not my pic but here is an example of what I was up against with the 950: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5545523&postcount=12
   

   
   
  Typically you see a small circle hole on the side of the pots; notice the pots appear to be doubled up in the pic above and do not have circular holes on the sides.  In the top center of the pots you can barely make out a square indent of the back of the pot, that's one spot I sprayed and then also let some drip through the top slits of the sandwiched part in front of it as there were no square or circle holes.  Maybe I overdid it but better to be safe than sorry I think; the de-oxit is not supposed to harm the circuit boards.  For those switches they are butted up right against each other with no real obvious holes to speak of, just a small open area to shove the straw into from the side, you can imagine this is really tough when the switches are super close to each other luckily de-oxit gets all over the place.
   
  It's also really annoying how pretty much every thread results in "go to the idiots guide to using de-oxit."  Which has no pictures!
   
  Here's another pic of a different receiver, notice the pot is different than above with the square hole now located on the sandwiched section of the pot and you can make out the opening where I sprayed the switch from the side at the lone switch at the very top of the board.  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=426204


----------



## Silent One

Thanks for the boost! Can't remember what my iron looks like inside; will go back in during college football this Saturday.


----------



## Silent One

Glass For Iron?
   
  Anyone have/heard the 1973-75 SANSUI QRX 5500A FM/AM Quad (2, 4 channel) Receiver/Amplifier? What are your thoughts?? There's a cat asking $400. Wasn't looking for a receiver this morning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But, having _tripped_ _over it, _would like to get some feedback. I was going to sell some glass (pair of TS-BGRP 6SN7 series) to buy the same in the 12SN7 series next week. Now, I'm thinking about selling the glass for some vintage iron.


----------



## Skylab

The only reason to lay down $400 for that is if you love the look.  You're paying a lot for the Quad functions, which you would have to buy a lot of other stuff (including crazy expensive Quad encoded records or reels and the decks to play them) in order to benefit.  And there is more stuff to go wrong.  It's crazy cool looking, and the big Marantz quad receivers, which add a real o-scope, go for big money.  But if you just want to play stereo music, it's not how I would spend my money.  You can buy a Sansui 9090 for that same $400 if you are patient, or something like a G-7000, and have much better sound and reliability.  And that's just Sansui.


----------



## Rawrbington

theres a G701 in my neck of the woods for 150$.  Its missing the back half of the big heatsink, but its the Dark European version.  Very sexy
   
  the only reason i haven't grabbed it is 1, im trying to practice better self control with these vintage pieces, and 2, the G series always seemed a little harsh compared to the 8080/9090


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The only reason to lay down $400 for that is if you love the look.  You're paying a lot for the Quad functions, which you would have to buy a lot of other stuff (including crazy expensive Quad encoded records or reels and the decks to play them) in order to benefit.  And there is more stuff to go wrong.  It's crazy cool looking, and the big Marantz quad receivers, which add a real o-scope, go for big money.  But if you just want to play stereo music, it's not how I would spend my money.  You can buy a Sansui 9090 for that same $400 if you are patient, or something like a G-7000, and have much better sound and reliability.  And that's just Sansui.


 
   
  Silent One, Skylab's much more of an expert, but FWIW, I agree with everything he said regarding the quads.  I think you're paying extra for 4 amps and processing and if you don't need them, then why pay for it?  The WPC on these quads isn't as high as you could get for the same $ in a stereo receiver and they're very big and heavy (if you're at all space constrained).  They are cool to look at though.  
   
  I have a QR-6500 and I don't know how the amp architecture is compared to the QRX-5500A you posted, but I find it has a less punch/detailed sound versus some of the other vintage units I have.  For $400, you might also look at the single digit models (in particular, Sansui Eight or Eight Deluxe if you want ~60W/ch or Seven if you're OK with less).  I really like the sound of this generation - the 7070 I have is also very good (also about 60W/ch) if you don't need as much power as the 9090 has.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You and Skylab are absolutely right! This offering was something I merely tripped over in the wee hours of the morning before going to bed. Have since done my homework and have been going about my day. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Though, I am considering a SX-1250 if I can get my TS-BGRP's tested-listed-sold.


----------



## Skylab

I would not hesitate to trade a pair of TS BGRPs for a SX-1250...and what's frightening is that one actually COULD...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would not hesitate to trade a pair of TS BGRPs for a SX-1250...and what's frightening is that one actually COULD...


 
   
  With my glass being pre-owned, I'm still gonna need to sweeten the deal to bring it home by a couple or three bills. Seller is asking $650, I think. A bit challenged cosmetically but not bad, I understand, and playback is strong. Well, to hear the seller tell it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  He's not interested in shipping the iron and he lives out in the middle of nowhere - far far Northern Cal. I mean, whether I rent-a-car or catch Amtrak, I might as well look at listings for Craigslist in Oregon, while I'm out there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm happy with the SX-D7000, but I simply don't see many SX-1250's come up that often that are affordable. Will have to sleep on this some...
   
  And YES, the thought is both frightening and a bit upside down!


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Funny you say it like that.  Of course the best tubes are super expensive but the money could totally be used for something with more bang for the buck


----------



## Lou Erickson

I've got a Marantz receiver - a 2220 - with a Marantz 6300 direct drive turntable on it.  The turntable needs a new cartridge.  (It had a crappy one on it, which I'm moving to a mathingly crappy spare turntable.)
   
  Any suggestions on a new cartridge that's going to do the Marantz justice without breaking the bank?  None of this is TOTL gear, so I don't want to go nuts with a cartridge, but am looking for the right fit, in something easily obtained.
   
  Any suggestions?


----------



## Skylab

Well, the go to budget cartridge for me is the Shure M97xE. Well worth the money, and generally available for $80 or less. Good sounding, tracks well, not fussy.


----------



## Lou Erickson

"Budget" is kind of a soft term in this hobby.  
   
   
  I have, just today, ordered a Loricraft PRC-6 record cleaning machine.  Ironic that it will be the single most expensive component in the whole system.  
   
  I am using the vintage receiver and its phono stage with the turntable, so don't want to put in a cartridge that will outperform it.  OTOH, a mid-70's Marantz should have a pretty respectable phono stage.  Vinyl mattered.
   
  I've been reading the web, and the Shure clearly a solid choice.  I was considering the Grado Red1.  I have no desire for a thousand dollar cartridge, but could go to a couple of hundred.  Is there anything else in that range that I should consider?


----------



## calipilot227

lou erickson said:


> "




If you can stretch your budget to $200, the AT440MLA is an excellent choice.


----------



## Skylab

The Denon DL-110 at $140 is another good choice in that range. I personally dislike Grado cartridges, but that's JMO. 

The Ortofon 2M series is also great. I Have the 2M Bronze, which is $400, and like it a lot, but the $99 2M Red and $200 2M Blue get a lot of praise too.


----------



## Lee Harvey

I have used Grado cartridges off and on for 30 years and I have yet to have one that does not pick a hum from the turntable or other equipment.  I have a Shure M97xE on my Pioneer  PL-707 now.  Its a much better cartridge for the money.  IMHO   In another news flash I have picked up a really clean Pioneer SX-1080.  Pictures to follow in a few days.  This means I need to sell my Marantz 2250 to make space for the SX-1080.  Anyone interested in the Marantz can PM me.


----------



## Skylab

Congrats on the 1080! And you hit the nail on the head. Grados are famous for hum and tracking problems. And I think they have a universal sonic signature with an annoying lower treble peak.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats on the 1080! And you hit the nail on the head. Grados are famous for hum and tracking problems. And I think they have a universal sonic signature with an annoying lower treble peak.


 
  Thanks Skylab!  There was a SX-980 locally to me last week that was in great shape and had been re-capped in the past year.  I waited too long trying to make up my mind on trying to get it and it got sold last Saturday.  So when I found this SX-1080 for a reasonable price I jumped on it.  I just love the SX-780 that I picked up a couple of months ago but I need something that will drive my Dahlquist DQ-10's in my Vintage rig.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I've come to the conclusion that the premium people charge for re-capped receivers is justified as long as the work is solid; and that for the price you are paying above unmolested units it's like buying a really old used car.  Will probably end up costing you more long-term!


----------



## claybum

Congrats on the SX 1080 Lee Harvey!!!
   
  I picked up a 1080 a few months ago and am stoked to have it. I use it to drive my HPM 1500 speakers and the hp out is quite wonderful.


----------



## monoethylene

My Eight is ready, finally. Fully recapped and some transistors are also new. Right now it is playing with my Thorens TD 125. Just excellent  . Speakers are some B&W DM-4.


----------



## captouch

monoethylene said:


> My Eight is ready, finally. Fully recapped and some transistors are also new. Right now it is playing with my Thorens TD 125. Just excellent  . Speakers are some B&W DM-4.




I hear these guys are quite a long process to recap - how many hours did you put into it and was it more difficult/arduous than others you've done?

Also, I have to ask, was there a big SQ difference before and after?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Denon DL-110 at $140 is another good choice in that range. I personally dislike Grado cartridges, but that's JMO.
> The Ortofon 2M series is also great. I Have the 2M Bronze, which is $400, and like it a lot, but the $99 2M Red and $200 2M Blue get a lot of praise too.


 
   
  I have the 2M Blue and it's pretty good, but it doesn't track as well as I'd like with very dynamic recordings.  My Benz Micro Red L is much better for that, but it doesn't have enough output for my phono preamp.  I pretty much switched to 24/96 downloads and gave up vinyl after that.


----------



## wualta

Quote:  





> I have no desire for a thousand dollar cartridge, but could go to a couple of hundred.  Is there anything else in that range that I should consider?


 
  The M97xE Skylab recommended is a solid choice, currently around $70. The damping it uniquely provides will help control the motion of your Marantz's arm and so make it sound its best. The sound of the xE is mellow and laid back on the top end. It's not a cart for people who enjoy electrostatic tweeters, for example. But of course you have tone controls, so no worries.
   
  The Audio-Technica AT440MLa (about $175 at the moment) is the anti-xE. It's a little bright on top, but it has one of the best styli (ie, diamond cuts) ever sold. It'll bring out tiny details in your LPs. I have one and like it-- my preamp lets me dial down the slightly hot top end. No damping, though.
   
  Ortofons are pretty close to neutral, and that's good, but the prices of replacement styli can be breathtaking-- shop around. Frankly, I like using the Ortofon-made Digitrac styli in the old OM bodies. Ortofon on the cheap. Well, cheaper.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Congrats on the SX 1080 Lee Harvey!!!
> 
> I picked up a 1080 a few months ago and am stoked to have it. I use it to drive my HPM 1500 speakers and the hp out is quite wonderful.


 
  Thanks!  It is suppose to show up sometime next week. I have been looking to get either 1080 or a 1280.  A 1980 is just out of my price range.  I went to CanJam to listen to the Mjolnir and see if that was the direction to go for my next upgrade but I was not overly impressed with it.  I also wanted to listen to the LCD2 and the HE500's one more time to decide on going with orthos or not.  I am really happy with my HD650's with a CablePro Reverie cable combo.  I am impressed with the SX780 and how well it worked with the Sennheisers.  I figured that my money would be better spent with a higher end Pioneer since the Sennheiser's scale up so well.  Its good to hear that someone else has a 1080 and is very happy with it.


----------



## claybum

Yes, the HD650's sound great with the SX1080. You should be a happy camper.


----------



## roadcykler

So what are some opinions on the Sansui G-8700DB receiver? There's one locally that is supposed to be in very good shape and just thoroughly gone through by a local audio store. The asking price is currently $475. Also, anyone have a link to the dimensions, or already know them? I can't seem to find anything but I'm pretty sure it's big.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





captouch said:


> I hear these guys are quite a long process to recap - how many hours did you put into it and was it more difficult/arduous than others you've done?
> Also, I have to ask, was there a big SQ difference before and after?


 

 The recapping was not as difficult as I ve done it with my Marantz 2325, because there is overall an easy access. All in all I ve done it within one day but this is my second Eight  . Concerning the SQ I cannot say anything because I ve just heard a little in advance. Right now the unit is playing wonderful and has a lot of impact especially when the Loudness knob is pressed.
   
  Have fun
   
  Philipp


----------



## Silent One

I like the numbers..._I love the numbers!_
   
  Last night, I bought a table as a companion for my vintage iron - 1977 Sony PS-X5. I still had chores to complete before settling down in the listening room. My chance wouldn't come until 0400 hours, but when it did..._Holy _






 _ship...what a surf! _The 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 and the PS-X5 was puttin' in work! Since the listening room is a shared and family oriented space, I nearly screamed _"Get a room!"_ The pair's performance was getting hot up in there!!! 
   
  At first drop, my initial thought was "I paid how much for this combo?!" I absolutely love the numbers - $250 for the SX-D7000, $125 for the PS-X5. And the combo _packs a sonic punch_, yet sounds refined. I'm pleasantly surprised at the Phono section of the Pioneer.
   
  LP was Chic's 12" Soundtrack "Soup For One" from the movie of the same name.
   




   




   
   
  Happy, however, I'm still facing challenges - I need cleaning supplies and a brush. And I'm flat out of room on the coffee table! Can't figure out where to put the TT. Need a new rack but lack new rack money at this time.


----------



## Skylab

Wow - nice looking turntable, SO! Very cool.


----------



## captouch

@Silent One, what's your TT sitting on? Are those gold things isolation 'feet'? And then that wood looking thing is what? Just curious - at first I thought those wood things were speakers.


----------



## 5aces

*wualta*,this popped up on Halloween.

I have never seen or heard of a full working combo offered up at once like this vintage set:
YamahaCollectorsDream

One Yamaha C-1 preamplifier
Two Yamaha B-1 amplifiers !
One UC-1 amplifier controller (rare)
One pair of Yamaha NS-1000 speakers to match

Must be from an estate.
I'd pay the asking price if it included both B-1 amps...
Beautiful sounding set,I listen to mine often.


----------



## DianeKBG

My husband wanted a home theater system, so he bought me a new receiver for my birthday, my old sony works GREAT, is in really good condition.  I have never had anything wrong with it.  I have RtF (I believe) speakers, and wish to sell the set.  Does anyone know how much I should be asking for it and or where to go to sell it.  The speakers themselves are great, however my cats used the front fabric for a scratch board.... Thanks for the help,  Diane


----------



## BmWr75

@DianeKBG - you are going to have to be much more specific on your speaker make, model and condition if you want help setting an asking price.  Pictures would help immensely.  Welcome to Head-fi!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





5aces said:


> *wualta*,this popped up on Halloween.
> 
> I have never seen or heard of a full working combo offered up at once like this vintage set:
> YamahaCollectorsDream
> ...


 
   
  Simply beautiful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Like an art gallery, this offering made my day...cost me nothing.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow - nice looking turntable, SO! Very cool.


 
   
  Thanks, Skylab. It was a fun, fun night..._morning._


----------



## jvandyk

My current main power amp is an Adcom 545 from 1989 or so. My big NAD blew out a couple of years ago. The Adcom works flawlessly .....like a tank. Not a 70's receiver but pretty vintage now at 23.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





captouch said:


> @Silent One, what's your TT sitting on? Are those gold things isolation 'feet'? And then that wood looking thing is what? Just curious - at first I thought those wood things were speakers.


 
   
  The TT was temporarily sitting atop 3"x3" - 6 lb brass footers. I need to fabricate or buy a plinth maybe. The Maple platforms are 4" thick - 12"x15". I found this tweak makes a huge difference on both my sources - digital & analogue. The other components return lesser differences, but no less important on the whole.
   
  But changes with the sources are immediate! None of that "I need a few weeks to evaluate" stuff. It'll hit you upside your BIG head.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I have a Shure M97xE on my Pioneer  PL-707 now.  Its a much better cartridge for the money.  IMHO


 
   
  You sir have fine taste! I have the very same combo!


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





5aces said:


> *wualta*,this popped up on Halloween.
> I have never seen or heard of a full working combo offered up at once like this vintage set:
> YamahaCollectorsDream
> One Yamaha C-1 preamplifier
> ...


 
   
  Cruel of them to say they have two, then dangle only one in front of you. I've never heard a B-1, but I sure would like to. I'd say that setup belonged to a Yamaha True Believer.
   
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> @DianeKBG - you are going to have to be much more specific on your speaker make, model and condition if you want help setting an asking price.  Pictures would help immensely.  Welcome to Head-fi!!


 
   
  Yes, and throw in a couple of cat photos too.  
   
  Could they be RtR speakers, possibly with the little ice cream sandwich shaped electrostatic tweeters?


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

Quote: 





dianekbg said:


> My husband wanted a home theater system, so he bought me a new receiver for my birthday, my old sony works GREAT, is in really good condition.  I have never had anything wrong with it.  I have RtF (I believe) speakers, and wish to sell the set.  Does anyone know how much I should be asking for it and or where to go to sell it.  The speakers themselves are great, however my cats used the front fabric for a scratch board.... Thanks for the help,  Diane


 
   
  Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> @DianeKBG - you are going to have to be much more specific on your speaker make, model and condition if you want help setting an asking price.  Pictures would help immensely.  Welcome to Head-fi!!


 
   
  Yep.  And better that the cat scratches the fabric than the drivers.  Fabric can be replaced more easily.


----------



## wotts

I just found a G8000 on the local CL. Says recapped and the picture shows a new custom walnut case. I might have to go take a look. Asking price is $500.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I just found a G8000 on the local CL. Says recapped and the picture shows a new custom walnut case. I might have to go take a look. Asking price is $500.


 
   
  So, how come we no get to look at the photo?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> So, how come we no get to look at the photo?


 
   
   
http://annarbor.craigslist.org/ele/3377136231.html


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ooh, baby!


----------



## Skylab

wotts said:


> I just found a G8000 on the local CL. Says recapped and the picture shows a new custom walnut case. I might have to go take a look. Asking price is $500.




Having looked at the picture, I would harm small animals to get to that unit if I lived nearby.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Having looked at the picture, I would harm small animals to get to that unit if I lived nearby.


 
   
  Having lived near by the seller up until a year ago, you can't believe how frustrating it is to only see the ad posted now that I live 600 miles away.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> You sir have fine taste! I have the very same combo!


 
  Thank You and I applaud your fine taste as well!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Now I understand 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 why he didn't initially post a pix._ Shhhh....quiet!_


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Now I understand
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hehe, I was thinking "_My Precious..._"


----------



## dekoomer

*Quasar Intergrated Audio System CS7*
   
   
  I found this in a Rummage sale in a chruch, "everything is free, just donate" so i pick this bad boy up for 5 USD.
   
  I did some digging and all i know is that these are supposed to be crazy rare, And Everything Works! i compared this with my Schiit lyr amp, Both being powered by the Bitforst Dac. and i have to admit the sound is amazing. only been using it for a few hours so a few more sound tests have to be done, but so far so good
   
  do anyone have any info on this, it's worth/value because i literally do not see another one of these in the internet
   
   
  Edit: after some tests, The Lyr amp was overall a bit clearer with the music.
  The CS7 was not as clear with the music, but the difference was not that big.
   
  but the Bass! the CS7 blew the Lyr out of the water, the bass was profound and immersive.


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey Guys,
  I'm newly married and my wife hates my Kenwood KR-9600 in the wooden case that I got from my dad about ten years ago. You guys here seem to be experts on these things, and I have a few questions about it. 
  Bottom line is, do I keep it or sell it?
  All the lights, switches, amps, channels, tuners, etc work, and the case is in good shape save a few small scratches, but one channel has intermittent small pops (every minute or so).
  How do I convince her to keep it? We already had to leave behind the JBL 100's when we moved so I don't even have speakers for it anymore.
  If we keep it, I have to find the right speakers - do you have recommendations on that?
  If I do sell it, should I get it serviced to fix the intermittent static first, and what do you think it's worth?
  Thanks,
  Phoenix G


----------



## wotts

I would keep it regardless. It's a nice bit of kit - a quick search marks it highly regarded. Else, I would say spray some DeOxit on the controls and work them around a bit. If you search this thread, there are multiple suggestions like that. It seems to really help the static.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Hey Guys,
> I'm newly married and my wife hates my Kenwood KR-9600 in the wooden case that I got from my dad about ten years ago. You guys here seem to be experts on these things, and I have a few questions about it.
> Bottom line is, do I keep it or sell it?
> All the lights, switches, amps, channels, tuners, etc work, and the case is in good shape save a few small scratches, but one channel has intermittent small pops (every minute or so).
> ...


 
   
*Two birds, one stone*. Sounds so cruel, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Anyway, I would send 'Silent One' a Private Message with an offer to sell. Doing so will take the relationship with your wife to newer heights, returning unmentionable dividends.


----------



## Skylab

wotts said:


> I would keep it regardless. It's a nice bit of kit - a quick search marks it highly regarded. Else, I would say spray some DeOxit on the controls and work them around a bit. If you search this thread, there are multiple suggestions like that. It seems to really help the static.




Yup, I second all of that. The KR-9600 is a very nice receiver. Just get some deoxit spray read up a bit on how to spray controls (if you search over on AudioKarma I'm sure you can find a thread on that). That will very likely fix your problem, and you will continue to have a wonderful piece of gear to center a stereo around.


----------



## Silent One

Great! But did you guys read the intro _"I'm newly married and..." _





 I'm trying to help this cat out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looking deep inside my tea tins for cash as I type.


----------



## captouch

phoenixg said:


> Hey Guys,
> I'm newly married and my wife hates my Kenwood KR-9600 in the wooden case that I got from my dad about ten years ago. You guys here seem to be experts on these things, and I have a few questions about it.
> Bottom line is, do I keep it or sell it?
> All the lights, switches, amps, channels, tuners, etc work, and the case is in good shape save a few small scratches, but one channel has intermittent small pops (every minute or so).
> ...




Does she hate it because of the vintage/wood look, or because of the small pops?

If it's the pops, assure her the small pops can be fixed (in the simplest case Deoxit as others mentioned). But you're not going to change the looks. If it's the looks, offer to set it up in a spare bedroom, loan it to a friend who you trust to give it back upon request, even store it in your closet (or wherever) if you don't have a spare room. Tell her it was your Dad's and has sentimental value if you really want to keep it. Once you get rid if it, it's gone and you may regret it later. So don't do that unless you're really indifferent to having it or not.

If you get rid of it, I would try to fix the pops yourself before selling it - paying to have it fixed would probably not return the extra you pay someone else to fix it, if you can't fix it, you may take a small hit on selling price, but I'd sell it as is because someone else will be confident they can fix it themselves.

If you keep it, I'm sure you have many options for speakers. I think Kenwoods are pretty neutral, so you don't have to go to one extreme or the other in terms of speaker characteristics to get nice sound.

Lastly, if vintage or audio in general is something you're really into, have a talk with the wife now about it being a hobby/passion for you. You don't want to be in a position of having to sell off cool stuff because she doesn't understand how cool it is for you. Good luck.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





dekoomer said:


> *Quasar Intergrated Audio System CS7*
> 
> 
> I found this in a Rummage sale in a chruch, "everything is free, just donate" so i pick this bad boy up for 5 USD.
> ...


 
   
  That's cool that you are having good results from that compact stereo.  Systems like that used to sell for about $299 back in the late 80's early 90's.  I say if you can get inside it and do some DeOxiting to it on its controls you might get a little bit better sound.  What headphones and tubes in the Lyr are you using?


----------



## PhoenixG

Thanks everyone for the advice! I think I've convinced my wife that I should keep my Kenwood KR-9600. I'll definitely get some deoxit to try to get rid of the intermittent static.


----------



## dekoomer

The headphones are the Senn Hd 600.
  Tubes for lyr are NOS 6N1P tubes.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

My house has way too many Pioneer receivers right now!!  Some picks I've seen on my local CL:
   
  Sansui 5050 for $100 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/ele/3338968370.html
  McIntosh MAC1700 for $500 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ele/3357839858.html
  Hitachi HTA-5001 for $50 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/ele/3336721391.html
  Yamaha R300 for $80 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/ele/3383647787.html
   
  If I sell off what I want to of the Pioneers I am still holing sx-780, sx-950, and Luxman r-113!


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I love finding sites like this, the name alone is incredible: http://badaudioreviews.blogspot.com/


----------



## palmfish

mr.sneis said:


> I love finding sites like this, the name alone is incredible: http://badaudioreviews.blogspot.com/




Thanks for sharing that link. Thats a fun blog - i like his writing style 

I enjoyed revisiting that old Stereo Review "Do all amps sound the same" article. I was a subscriber back then and remember that one. Good stuff!


----------



## sling5s

I can't tell the difference between my O2 and my Pioneer SX-850.  The O2 is slightly more transparent and detailed but it's so close.   
  I was expecting a little more with the SX-850.  At leasts more dynamics and soundstage than the O2.
   
  Anyone have both?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

You don't get a mess of white noise through the sx-850 HP out?


----------



## Lee Harvey

My SX-1080 finally arrived.  The switches had some static in them but I cleaned them out with some DeOxit and Pro Gold 5.  Now it sounds nice and clean with no noise or static.  I tried to put it in one of my system racks but it was too wide.  Most components are 17" or 19" but this thing is like 21" wide so I had to put it on the top shelf for now.  
   

   
   
  The case is in real good condition.  I rubbed it down with Pledge Revitalizing oil to bring back it's color and shine back.  I think this is the last receiver that I will be getting for while.


----------



## wotts

Nice unit there!!


----------



## captouch

Yeah, I think that one will hold you for awhile.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I had the same problem with the width of my receivers.  I'm having to put two receivers stacked on the top shelf of my rack.  I wish I had done a little more research and held off on buying my current rack as I don't really like the stacking option.
  Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> My SX-1080 finally arrived.  The switches had some static in them but I cleaned them out with some DeOxit and Pro Gold 5.  Now it sounds nice and clean with no noise or static.  I tried to put it in one of my system racks but it was too wide.  Most components are 17" or 19" but this thing is like 21" wide so I had to put it on the top shelf for now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> My SX-1080 finally arrived.  The switches had some static in them but I cleaned them out with some DeOxit and Pro Gold 5.  Now it sounds nice and clean with no noise or static.  I tried to put it in one of my system racks but it was too wide.  Most components are 17" or 19" but this thing is like 21" wide so I had to put it on the top shelf for now.
> 
> The case is in real good condition.  I rubbed it down with Pledge Revitalizing oil to bring back it's color and shine back.  I think this is the last receiver that I will be getting for while.


 
   
  She turned my head.._.I'm still looking. _


----------



## wotts

It definitely makes me want to make a move on the SX-1250 I just found...I'll have to find the link.


----------



## claybum

Very nice 1080!!!   Congrats.


----------



## Rossliew

Hi, anyone can advise if a Sansui AU-317 is a good buy? Read some good things on the Sansui AU-x17 series but am wondering how the sound signature is. Am actually planning to use it to pair with my HE-6. Yay or nay?


----------



## Skylab

Lee that 1080 is a beauty, congrats. I'm sure it sounds great, too. I bought a 980 for my brother and I know it sounds great, and of course I love my 1280 and 1980. So I am certain the 1080 is winner!!


----------



## BGRoberts

That is one BEAUTIFUL 1080!
  Congrats!
  Is anyone else using Pledge on their vintage components?  I'd sure like to find something to use that would make 'em that pretty.
  ~BG


----------



## Skylab

NOT Pledge!!!! If its real wood, use Howard's Feed'n'Wax.


----------



## BGRoberts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NOT Pledge!!!! If its real wood, use Howard's Feed'n'Wax.


 

 Thanks for that info!
  I'll see if I can find Howards on Amazon.
  ~BG


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NOT Pledge!!!! If its real wood, use Howard's Feed'n'Wax.


 
  Hey Skylab, got a question about that.  iknow its slightly off topic but this is my fav thread for info on all things vintage.
  I found a pair of very very near mint Klipsch Chorus the other day.  I didn't hesitate to grab them for the 200$.
  BUT
  they look like they've never been treated or anything.  just dusted occasionally.
   
  I have some Howard's, can i use this on them?  or should i just leave em as they are?
  will the Howard's do any permanent damage to the wood veneer?


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





bgroberts said:


> That is one BEAUTIFUL 1080!
> Congrats!
> Is anyone else using Pledge on their vintage components?  I'd sure like to find something to use that would make 'em that pretty.
> ~BG


 
   
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Lee that 1080 is a beauty, congrats. I'm sure it sounds great, too. I bought a 980 for my brother and I know it sounds great, and of course I love my 1280 and 1980. So I am certain the 1080 is winner!!


 
   
   
  Quote: 





claybum said:


> Very nice 1080!!!   Congrats.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> It definitely makes me want to make a move on the SX-1250 I just found...I'll have to find the link.


 
   
  If you can get that SX-1250 for a good price you should move on it!
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> She turned my head.._.I'm still looking. _


 
   
   
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> Nice unit there!!


 
   
  Thank you for the complements Guys!  I have used the Pledge Revitalizing oil on other wood furniture around the house with good results.  I thought I would give it try on this one's case.  It soaked up the oil and was touchable about an hour later.  It did put a nice shine on the finish.  I hooked it up last night and will leave it powered on though out the weekend to see how it sounds on Monday.  The Marantz and SX-780 really warmed up sound wise after 3 days of being powered on.


----------



## Skylab

rawrbington said:


> Hey Skylab, got a question about that.  iknow its slightly off topic but this is my fav thread for info on all things vintage.
> I found a pair of very very near mint Klipsch Chorus the other day.  I didn't hesitate to grab them for the 200$.
> BUT
> they look like they've never been treated or anything.  just dusted occasionally.
> ...




Is it real wood veneer? If so, Howard's Feed'n'Wax will for sure not hurt it, it will actually help protect the finish!


----------



## Rawrbington

Great!
  Yeah htey're real wood veneer.  Problem is they are gigantic.  Might require a second bottle of the howards


----------



## Ren19

I have a quick noob question for all the audiophiles:
   
  Do i need an amp for a 38 Ohms headphones? (ATHM50)
   
  I listen on PC, Ipod Classic.
   
  Thank you.


----------



## haguy

Can anyone tell me if Carver receivers, specifically HR-722 and HR-752, work well or at all with hp's? I'm looking for a receiver to use with a cdp and my SR-60i's and HD-598's. I've searched the on-line manuals and found some generic impedance info which was of little help. Are the Carver receivers even worth considering? Thanks.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





ren19 said:


> I have a quick noob question for all the audiophiles:
> 
> Do i need an amp for a 38 Ohms headphones? (ATHM50)
> 
> ...


 
  I think an amp can always help headphones and the vintage receivers discussed in this thread are truly bang for the buck. I am seeking out two more right now.
   
  Quote: 





haguy said:


> Can anyone tell me if Carver receivers, specifically HR-722 and HR-752, work well or at all with hp's? I'm looking for a receiver to use with a cdp and my SR-60i's and HD-598's. I've searched the on-line manuals and found some generic impedance info which was of little help. Are the Carver receivers even worth considering? Thanks.


 
  I am not familiar with the Carver gear outside recommendations from my HT ethusiast friend. I can't imagine it would do a bad job as a headamp though. I would seek out information regarding how the headphone jack is wired.
   
   
  And a question I have: Pioneer SX-1250, works, a couple burnt out lights, antenna is broken, but seller has a replacement. It doesn't specify a re-cap, and the asking price is $600. It that about right, or should I be looking to negotiate?


----------



## Silent One

Out here in the former land of Milk & Honey, on CL there's a SX-1250 for $590. Everything reportedly works well. But, aesthetically looks neglected - dull wood; face ( a few scratches).


----------



## Skylab

Wotts I think that's a bit high, given the few issues. I'd try to negotiate a bit. I personally think you should be $500 or less.

Related to Pioneer SX-xx50 and xx80 receivers, the one thing NOT to sweat about is the wood. Usually the existing wood casework can be brought back to life with just some 0000 steel wool, Howard's restor-a-finish and Feed'n'Wax. If the veneer is badly chipped, brand new wood cases can be had for $100-ish. I would much rather have one with some flaws in the wood that works perfectly than the other way around. Even replacing the function indicator lamps is a pretty major project with these Pioneers.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The one thing NOT to sweat about is the wood.


 
   
  Yup. Wood can always be restored and replaced. Not necessarily cheaply (if you want a good job done), but odds are really good that if you give a receiver a better wood case than its original, collectors are not nearly going to mind that as much as they'll mind that the innards were messed with.


----------



## wotts

Thank you everyone. I'll see what I can do.


----------



## haguy

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I think an amp can always help headphones and the vintage receivers discussed in this thread are truly bang for the buck. I am seeking out two more right now.
> 
> I am not familiar with the Carver gear outside recommendations from my HT ethusiast friend. I can't imagine it would do a bad job as a headamp though. I would seek out information regarding how the headphone jack is wired.
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you for the response, wotts. The Carver manual states the following regarding the hp jack: " HP impedance may be from a few ohms to several thousand ohms, although output level may vary depending on impedance. HP jack is driven by a separate internal amp designed to provide the correct voltage and wattage gain needed." I wish "...a few ohms..." was defined. Any other thoughts? Again, thank you.


----------



## monoethylene

Nice combo


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





ren19 said:


> I have a quick noob question for all the audiophiles:
> 
> Do i need an amp for a 38 Ohms headphones? (ATHM50)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Even low impedance phone can benefit from amping.  The amp and volume control is an iPod are not great.  Using a Line Out Dock cable (bypasses iPod volume control and amp) from an iPod to an amp can sound noticeably better.  PCs typically don't sound that great either from the HP out.  Both sources can audiophile sound quality if you use an external DAC with them to process their digital out signal.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





haguy said:


> Thank you for the response, wotts. The Carver manual states the following regarding the hp jack: " HP impedance may be from a few ohms to several thousand ohms, although output level may vary depending on impedance. HP jack is driven by a separate internal amp designed to provide the correct voltage and wattage gain needed." I wish "...a few ohms..." was defined. Any other thoughts? Again, thank you.


 
  Depeding on the era, it may be a opamp driven amplifirer, which can be very good. Myself, I'd check the used market for value and pick it up, if I knew i'd be able to sell it if I didn't like the sound. What cans would you be using?


----------



## haguy

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Depeding on the era, it may be a opamp driven amplifirer, which can be very good. Myself, I'd check the used market for value and pick it up, if I knew i'd be able to sell it if I didn't like the sound. What cans would you be using?


 
  I would be using both the SR60i and HD598 cans. Thanks for responding.


----------



## kstuart

Since I keep being wrong about what sort of Vintage equipment is of any interest to anyone, this time I will ask:
   
  Are mid-1980s Japanese stereo receivers - no knobs - up and down buttons for volume and balance - of any interest to anyone  ?
   
  My guess is that only receivers from the "knob era" are of interest, but I thought I would ask.....


----------



## Silent One

You are going to post exhibits, yes?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Since I keep being wrong about what sort of Vintage equipment is of any interest to anyone, this time I will ask:
> 
> Are mid-1980s Japanese stereo receivers - no knobs - up and down buttons for volume and balance - of any interest to anyone  ?
> 
> My guess is that only receivers from the "knob era" are of interest, but I thought I would ask.....


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> You are going to post exhibits, yes?


 
   
  I like the knobs, but like SO says, show me what you're workin' with.


----------



## ardgedee

haguy said:


> Thank you for the response, wotts. The Carver manual states the following regarding the hp jack: " HP impedance may be from a few ohms to several thousand ohms, although output level may vary depending on impedance. HP jack is driven by a separate internal amp designed to provide the correct voltage and wattage gain needed." I wish "...a few ohms..." was defined. Any other thoughts? Again, thank you.




I would be concerned by the phrase, "HP jack is driven by a separate internal amp...."

The main reason why we obsess over using vintage receivers for headphones is because on the units of interest the speaker amplifier sections are top-notch and _also_ drive the headphones through a simple adaptor circuit.

This means that the care and attention that the manufacturer paid to the main selling point of the amp is also powering your headphones.

Starting in the 80s, when amps-on-a-chip became economical, receiver manufacturers began segregating the headphones from the speakers and giving them their own amp. Considered on a case-by-case basis, the dedicated headphone amp circuit might or might not be good, but it's easy to make sweeping assumptions about quality when a manufacturer can add this more economically than they can insert a couple resistors between the speaker output and the headphone jack.

And principally it means that the top-notch speaker amplifier section is no longer driving your headphones, and that kind of defeats the point of going to the effort of setting up the receiver just for your headphones.

As far as output levels and impedance, I wouldn't worry overly much. They're designed to handle full-sized headphones of all varieties. The two you mention using are perfectly middle-of-the-road in terms of technical requirements. Almost the only headphones that you can't really pull out of a box and plug in are IEMs and electrostats.


----------



## haguy

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I would be concerned by the phrase, "HP jack is driven by a separate internal amp...."
> The main reason why we obsess over using vintage receivers for headphones is because on the units of interest the speaker amplifier sections are top-notch and _also_ drive the headphones through a simple adaptor circuit.
> This means that the care and attention that the manufacturer paid to the main selling point of the amp is also powering your headphones.
> Starting in the 80s, when amps-on-a-chip became economical, receiver manufacturers began segregating the headphones from the speakers and giving them their own amp. Considered on a case-by-case basis, the dedicated headphone amp circuit might or might not be good, but it's easy to make sweeping assumptions about quality when a manufacturer can add this more economically than they can insert a couple resistors between the speaker output and the headphone jack.
> ...


 
  Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. The model receiver (HR-752) that I've been considering was manufactured for only a short time ('88-'91 I believe). I would really prefer a receiver over a dedicated hp amp to use with my hp's. I suppose I should consider a 70's receiver and use this thread as a guide. You've been very informative and I thank you.


----------



## Skylab

I guess I am an old fart, but it's hard for me to consider 80's as "vintage". I definitely cannot accept 1990's as vintage. 

1980's was the decade when the better known brands really started cranking out crappy stuff. There was a LOT of bad gear in the 80's. some good stuff too of course, but it takes more work to get good 80's gear. What survives today from the 1970's tends to be better. Partly there was a lower quantity of cheap crap, and partly what cheap crap there was has mostly been land-filled by now.


----------



## Silent One

The Japanese Electronics Arms Race --
   
  In my view, 1980 was the last hurrah. So, I consider my 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 vintage, but will cast a wary eye on post 1980 stuff.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Japanese Electronics Arms Race --
> 
> In my view, 1980 was the last hurrah. So, I consider my 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 vintage, but will cast a wary eye on post 1980 stuff.


 
  I have been able to listen to the SX-1080 this morning and Wow!  I don't think I need my separates anymore, they can be sold now.  I believe you are right about the Japanese Electronics Arms Race.  I think they perfected Solid State amps at that time.  We have just been waiting for music sources to catch up.  Turntable setups have incrementally improved in the past 30 years but vinyl still has it's limitations with surface noise, pops and clicks, etc.  The real big jump has been computer audio, DACs and hi-rez samples of original master tapes.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Great!
> Yeah htey're real wood veneer.  Problem is they are gigantic.  Might require a second bottle of the howards


 
  I used to own the Forte and also later the Cornwall both in walnut finish and currently I own B&W 801 Matrix S3 in walnut finish too. I have always used Lemon Oil for furniture polishing (with no wax) with great results.
http://www.weiman.com/Products/Wood-Furniture,-Cabinets---Panels/Lemon-Oil-Furniture-Polish.aspx


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Okay, but I was looking more for a general sense, but here is one example:


----------



## Skylab

I hope no one takes offense, but my guess is that the receiver above is very likely to suck.


----------



## BmWr75

I second that motion.


----------



## ardgedee

Constructive and informed opinions about arbitrary pieces of old gear are more available on audiokarma than here. We definitely have our biases and some of us stay well-informed but that place is full of people who collect them, we're the guys who sold and serviced them back in the day, and in some cases are the guys who designed and built them. 

Even though I mostly hang out on head-fi, I keep a lurker account there and tend to check for technical opinions there first when there's a piece of equipment somewhere that's caught my eye.


----------



## wualta

Yeah, nobody likes that stuff. Geddit oudda here. There's no denying that in general, the flat-switch stuff is less popular. 
   
  It also can't be denied that the flat-switch stuff is much easier to ship without damage. And I should just shut up about all the good devices and circuitry that hung around til at least 1985 if you chose carefully, because that just leaves more of it for me, and at prices I can afford. Still, I have the same reaction to '80s *style* that many of you have. Ewwww. 
   
  So, uh, yeah, anything after December 31 1979 is crap and you shouldn't even think about it. As Nancy Reagan taught us: Just say no!


----------



## Silent One

I would beg kindly beg to differ, as 1980 isn't the mid '80's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Due to the Global recession, Japanese companies in 1980 had to severely rethink things, but some companies still squeezed in some audio goodness in 1980. This can be seen in my very own 1980 SX-D7000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But shortly thereafter....


----------



## Rawrbington

yamaha made some solid stuff in the early 80's
  some of those amps they were putting out sound magnificent even today.


----------



## Skylab

Wasn't the mid 80's the time period that saw the shift from mostly discreet SS designs to the early (and IMHO bad sounding) op-amp designs for gear that wasn't targeted at the high end?

There was some pretty great 80's high end gear - but it was being made by the fledgling Mark Levinson and such outfits, if memory serves.


----------



## Silent One

Your memory 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 serves you well...


----------



## jeffsf

Wait, all my stuff is now "vintage?" What does that make me?
   
  I was selling consumer-grade and high-end equipment in the early 80s and most of it sucked, just like today.
   
  There were a few notable exceptions, depending on which year and what model. The Harmon-Kardon receivers weren't bad for entry-level gear. Certain of the Onkyo and Denon models, as I remember, were decent for their price. The NAD gear I have from back then is still solid.
   
  I listened to a lot of chain-store gear in the late 80s and early 90s and some were decent, with the ability to actually have depth to the soundstage. Others sounded like there was a curtain between you and the speakers. These were still generally discrete-transistor power amps. I have a Yamaha from back then that still does a decent job, even though the display is shot. A handful of them had a tone-defeat switch. If they had a remote, the better-sounding ones used a motor to drive a real pot, rather than digital control.
   
  There weren't many CD players that had decent response; most were so heavily filtered in the analog chain that they didn't sound much better than a Nakamichi cassette deck. Even if you got through that, most of the speakers were messed up in the crossover region and either no high end, or a completely tinny one. (I remember joking about "ESS" and how it was more of an alliteration than a company name.)
   
  No, you may _not _have my 1979 David Hafler DH-101 and DH-200, my Thorens TD-160, nor my Walkman Pro!


----------



## wualta

I was being.. shall we say satirical in that last post. Not that I wasn't trying to make a point about arbitrary cutoff dates, though that does simplify the shopping process. Mostly I was simply agreeing with Skylab that good stuff was still being made in the '80s but that one had to shop with greater care and usually spend more money. Not all the good '80s stuff was made by Mark Levinson (which fledged in the '70s). Just ask John Curl.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Quote: 





wualta said:


> The Audio-Technica AT440MLa (about $175 at the moment) is the anti-xE. It's a little bright on top, but it has one of the best styli (ie, diamond cuts) ever sold. It'll bring out tiny details in your LPs. I have one and like it-- my preamp lets me dial down the slightly hot top end. No damping, though.


 
  My local shop (Norman at SerTech Electronics) also suggested the Shure that Skylab recommended, but I went with this A-T.  Norman was impressed with it, and I've only been pleased so far.  I very much appreciate the suggestion, as I wouldn't have found it.
   
  Norman also got a Realistic Lab 12A, which is a BSR 310X working for me.  It needed a good cleaning, lubrication and a stylus and it was good to go.  Works fine, sounds perfectly good for a commodity turntable from 1974.  I inherited it from my Grandfather, so thought I should see if it could be made to work, and it does.  It'll probably be my spare.  It also has 78RPM, and I see there's a 78 stylus for it, so it may get used for 78's, should I keep any.
   
  I think this means I have five turntables in the house... maybe two too many.


----------



## Lou Erickson

I have just realized that I have used every connection on my Marantz 2220.
   
  The Squeezebox is aux, the Marantz 6300 TT is on phono, tape monitor and tape out hook to the Mac (via an EMU 0404) or to a CD player if I care enough.  Or even the Marantz cassette player that's in the closet or the Walkman Pro, come to think of it.
   
  AM and FM antennas are both connected and work, and the TT is grounded.
   
  Main speakers are a cheap pair of bookshelves so it'll make noise in the room... Remote speaker has a Stax SRD7, a Marantz EE1, AND a K-1000 on it, one of which works depending on how they're set.
   
  The headphone jack is the least used - ironic considering where I'm posting and how good it is - but I have driven Beyerdynamic DT990's off of it easily.  They usually live in another room, though.
   
  Need more inputs, clearly.  And a bigger desk.
   
  Normally, I'd start to shop around for a bigger integrated, but I've just ordered a Loricraft RCM, and that's blown my audio budget for a bit.


----------



## wualta

Glad to hear you like the 440MLa. Many folks find it annoyingly bright, but treat it right (keep it scrupulously clean, and keep a few loading tricks up your sleeve) and it behaves itself beautifully.
   
  Not only that, but the stylus will snap right onto one of A-T's first-generation p-mount bodies, giving you an available (and relatively affordable) MicroLine stylus for that old Technics linear tracker in the closet that everybody says is worthless because it uses p-mounts.
   
  My cheapskate solution for the ran-outa-inputs problem is to find an old av switch, the kind that people used to use to add a video game (or three) to their TVs. One configuration (and I've seen similar ones at Big Lots) looks like this: 




  And of course there are more expensive solutions-- component video switch boxes, for example.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





wualta said:


> My cheapskate solution for the ran-outa-inputs problem is to find an old av switch, the kind that people used to use to add a video game (or three) to their TVs. One configuration (and I've seen similar ones at Big Lots) looks like this:
> 
> 
> And of course there are more expensive solutions-- component video switch boxes, for example.


 
   

  Adcom SLC-505. Purpose-built for the job, easy to find at $50 and you can probably go even lower if you scrounge.
   
  It's a passive unpowered preamp. The volume and balance knobs are bypassable, which makes it a pure switchbox.
   
  I use one in reverse to rout a single source (a DAC) outward. The "CD", "Phono", "Tuner" and "Aux" buttons are relabeled with the model names of various receivers and headphone amps. Truth.


----------



## weverb

Added a couple of pieces this week.
   
  1. Pioneer Monitor 10 headphones
  2. Pioneer RG-1 dynamic processor
   

   
  Here is everything so far.
   

   
  Need to work on the led lights above the TT. Want to try and get them to match the "Pioneer glow". Got lucky with the lamps coming very close. It seems to be a soft yellow color. The picture frames are the same brushed silver as the 950.


----------



## solserenade

Diggin' the Pioneer gear!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Tip: I use colored "gels" -- the colored plastic sheets that cover (white) stage-lights -- scraps of that, to customize light/LED colors. Not really sure of your application there, but thought I'd mention it.
   
  It can be doubled for darker, or mixed for blended colors (perforating one is interesting).


----------



## verde57

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I would be concerned by the phrase, "HP jack is driven by a separate internal amp...."
> The main reason why we obsess over using vintage receivers for headphones is because on the units of interest the speaker amplifier sections are top-notch and _also_ drive the headphones through a simple adaptor circuit.
> This means that the care and attention that the manufacturer paid to the main selling point of the amp is also powering your headphones.
> Starting in the 80s, when amps-on-a-chip became economical, receiver manufacturers began segregating the headphones from the speakers and giving them their own amp. Considered on a case-by-case basis, the dedicated headphone amp circuit might or might not be good, but it's easy to make sweeping assumptions about quality when a manufacturer can add this more economically than they can insert a couple resistors between the speaker output and the headphone jack.
> ...


 

 Nice explanation, what it is your take on the low impedance output needed for the headphones ?(that 1/8 ratio) .Headphone jacks on the vintage receivers has very high output impedance.


----------



## ardgedee

Try listening. If you like it, use it. Damping factor is an important consideration but I think its importance gets over-emphasized in relation to other aspects of an amplifier's performance.
   
  You have to be careful when using very high efficiency earphones with your receiver anyway. Since most good receivers have powerful headphone jacks, there can be almost no sweep available in the volume control. If your receiver has a -20 dB cut switch, that's often enough to compensate, and some head-fiers use that for happy listening with their IEMs.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Tip: I use colored "gels" -- the colored plastic sheets that cover (white) stage-lights -- scraps of that, to customize light/LED colors. Not really sure of your application there, but thought I'd mention it.


 
   
  Where do you get gel scraps? I wouldn't mind having some on hand (they're also good to use as masks over too-bright LEDs), and haven't had a lot of success when searching. I suspect I'm doing it wrong...


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Diggin' the Pioneer gear!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the suggestion. Never thought of that. I will look into those.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Try listening. If you like it, use it. Damping factor is an important consideration but I think its importance gets over-emphasized in relation to other aspects of an amplifier's performance.


 
  Seconding this. Complicating matters is the old headphone "standard" of 120 ohms output impedance at the headphone jack. Most headphones of the day were designed for this. Modern headphones, maybe not. If you think an impedance mismatch or too-low damping factor is affecting the sound of your headphone, you can always try driving them directly from the speaker outputs, which have output impedances measured in tiny fractions of an ohm. There's a catch to this, but it's something you should check your vintage amps for anyway: DC offset, which is the [unwanted] presence of DC at the speaker terminals. A few millivolts won't hurt a speaker, but it might pull the diaphragm of a sensitive headphone out of its linear region, so before hooking any headphone (except ones with sensitivities usual to the 1970s, like orthos) to speaker outs, check for DC first. Do it anyway. It's a good quickie check of the internal health of your vintage amp.


----------



## wotts

The Sansui deal never worked out, so I went after the Pioneer. I picked it up today!
   

   
   
  I can't get over how big it is...the Marantz is dwarfed by it. And power? Wow, I'm amazed.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





wotts said:


> The Sansui deal never worked out, so I went after the Pioneer. I picked it up today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats on joining the over sized Pioneer club!  I have the same problem with my new 1080 being to large to set on a shelf in the rack and having to be placed on top for now.  I too am amazed by the power and the sound of these units.  I hope it brings you much enjoyment.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Where do you get gel scraps? I wouldn't mind having some on hand (they're also good to use as masks over too-bright LEDs), and haven't had a lot of success when searching. I suspect I'm doing it wrong...


 
   
  I think originally I found a set of colors on musiciansfriend.com ...
   
  http://www.musiciansfriend.com/search/search.jsp?sB=r&question=light+gel
   
  I was going to mention, another source for a similar material is "report covers" ... if they still exist.
   
  Another option: MagLite sells a kit, (or sometimes includes with a new flashlight) which includes a red and a blue colored lens -- they are very thick, and small -- but it certainly works for an LED cover. (cut to size if necessary)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> The Sansui deal never worked out, so I went after the Pioneer. I picked it up today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
_C'est fantanstique!_


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> Congrats on joining the over sized Pioneer club!  I have the same problem with my new 1080 being to large to set on a shelf in the rack and having to be placed on top for now.  I too am amazed by the power and the sound of these units.  I hope it brings you much enjoyment.


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> _C'est fantanstique!_


 
   
   
  Thanks guys!  Right now I am listening to Myleen Klass and the HPM-100s are just singing. I tried some Deadmau5 earlier (before the neighborhood kiddies went to bed) and it just thundered.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that was right kind of you...


----------



## Skylab

Lookin' good, Wotts! Sounding good too, I'm sure.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Lookin' good, Wotts! Sounding good too, I'm sure.


 
   
   
  Thanks boss! I've been listening to it since I got speakers connected. When I get ambitious I'll snap some internal pictures. Looks pretty clean through the grills.


----------



## Rawrbington

Am i the only one that worries about my stand collapsing with that much weight up top?
  The 1250 has to weight close to 70 lbs.  Its a beauty btw Wotts
   


 Trying to figure out which one to liquidate so i can buy LCD2's.
  The 8080 has a little more air up top, but the Marantz plays a little nicer with headphones.  Noise is non existant.  And its more detailed across the spectrum.  though maybe not a level playing field since its been recapped.
  I'd keep both and sell the cat if i thought i could get anything out of her.


----------



## Skylab

The recapped one is the one to keep, as it will run better for longer.


----------



## Rawrbington

For whatever reason i'd put both the 8080 and the recapped 2270 on the chopping block before my 2245.  I've been in love with that thing since the day i got it.  Headphones or speakers it just sounds awesome.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Am i the only one that worries about my stand collapsing with that much weight up top?
> The 1250 has to weight close to 70 lbs.  Its a beauty btw Wotts
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was worried about it up there since the stand just has points, but it seems soild. I'll probably get a maple shade rack sometime next year. The VTi is nice, but I still don't think it's sturdy.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Am i the only one that worries about my stand collapsing with that much weight up top?
> The 1250 has to weight close to 70 lbs.  Its a beauty btw Wotts


 
   
  Maybe the cat knows something you don't?


----------



## Rawrbington

the only thing she knows  is exactly what buttons to push and when in order to get food.
   
  size is what makes the vintage gear so awesome and yet difficult to manage.
  Most audio stands i've come across aren't built for the width of your pioneer, sansui and kenwood kits.
  i have nightmares of my crappy makeshift stand collasping and killing my WA2 and its tubes.
   
  I love the look of those VTI stands but they aren't wide enough for the bigger units either, and I want the top space for a turntable.
   
  Really the marantz 22xx series are some of the only ones fit for todays stereo racks. 
   
  and holy crap has anyone ever laid eyes on the Yamaha CR 3020?
  An acquaintence of mine has one.  I went to his house this summer and i recognized it from 50 ft away.  its the widest thing ive ever seen.
  its one of those beauty's i never thought i'd actually see.  so physically imposing.  Kinda like the 1250 and 1980, it just looks the part


----------



## ardgedee

I've been using steel utility shelving (like Rawrbrington's, but full-size: 72" tall, 36" wide) for my audio kit. Sturdiness is definitely an advantage, and it's cheap (<$100) and lets me fit two pieces of equipment per shelf (as long as they're not both 70s-era monster receivers). Everything fits on one shelf, including the boxes for the headphones, and it makes it somewhat easier for me to hold myself to a fixed quota of audio hardware: If it fits, it's fair game; if it doesn't fit, I have to clear something to make room for it.
   
  Not as attractive as serious audiophile furniture, but it fits this office/listening room, since I've got a couple more wire shelves set up for computer and photography equipment.


----------



## calipilot227

rawrbington said:


>




Am I the only one who was concerned about the stand collapsing and dropping all those receivers on the poor cat sleeping underneath?? :eek:


----------



## bexiesbruv

Hello all,
  As a noob to the forum I had posted a question elsewhere but then realised it was in the wrong (well, not exactly) place and got no replies so I then I googled my question and found this thread which is the perfect place to get the info I need, I think.
  For the last 15 years my Acoustic Research TT has been in a box, along with its Trio IA. I decided to start using them again and realised I wanted a different amp to try, and speakers. I found a Sony STR 7065, a Technics and more recently a Rotel RA 412 (yep, its become an obsession)
  I have also been looking for speakers and quickly realised these are difficult to find in vintage form and at a decent price, also the rest of the family do not appreciate me rocking the house. So I decided to buy a pair of headphones. I lost my 1980's bought Sennheiser 420(?) which, as I remember, were OK but now I want to find a pair that work well with any of the amps I have.
  I figured I might buy
  ATH D700X ATH A900X
  Sennheiser HD 598, 600 or 650
  I wonder which of the amps would offer the best reproduction to the headphones. I am not a basshead and have no interest in the bass overwhelming (is that the right term?) the rest of my music.
  I listen (currently) to Neil Young, Adele, Bjork, Yes, Genesis, Pink Floyd.
  I bought a pair of Koss Porta Pro and thought they were "OK" for my Samsung Tablet, but thats all.
  Would any of those Amps have difficulty driving the HD 600/650. I am still getting to grips with impedance and dont really know (or understand) how to figure it out.
  Anyway, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
  By the way, as I became obsessed with this "return to the golden age of vinyl" quest, I also bought two dual TT's (a 1019 and a 1229, a cabinet music console AND a no name TT (just for the styli) all this and a pair 2 pairs of speakers, SAE Mark X and Celestion CS7, for under $200.00. So now I have separate listening stations where I can hide from "she who must..(be obeyed)"
   
  Cheers
   
  Bex


----------



## ardgedee

A lot of full-sized headphones sound great on vintage equipment... what's your budget?


----------



## bexiesbruv

Budget, ah now theres a thing.
  I started to be a little conservative, thinking I would look up retail prices then cheap out on Efray or something similar. I think I am OK with the headphones listed and their retail pricing and then finding them refurbished or used and taking a chance on them.
  So for the this exercise lets go full retail on the HD650 (but I think I might be better suited to the 600) and call that the budget. I would spend that on speakers anyway.
   
  Thanks for the quick reply,
   
  Bex


----------



## Meewoo

Hello, Bex,
  Welcome to the forum!!
  Based on your description and my experience, I wouldn't suggest you go after Sennheiser headphones. I have(had) Sony STR-7065 7045 and 6045 (stock one, non-recapped), they all sounds warm, I mean like vintage Marantz warm. And I found they aren't good synergy with Sennheiser's warm dark sound. But I find they are very good with AKG. I usually pair my Sennheisers with vintage Yamaha or Pioneer.
  As for speakers, I think Vintage Sony warm tone can even tame the treble of horn speakers, so Klipstch is not bad choice for you. I have two pair celestion bookshelf speakers, they may not go down deep, but their sound image is fantastic, great speakers.
  Of course, this are all my opinions, YMMV!1


----------



## bexiesbruv

I also have a pair of Celestion Ditton LS10 bookshelf speakers. I bought them with the AR TT back in the 80's. I damaged them with a test tone recently but was able to repair them and they (IMO) sound better than they did previously. I love em.
  I also remembered that I have got a Nikko NR1000 as well (does it never end??)
  What model AKG would you suggest?
   
  Bex


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bexiesbruv said:


> I also have a pair of Celestion Ditton LS10 bookshelf speakers. I bought them with the AR TT back in the 80's. I damaged them with a test tone recently but was able to repair them and they (IMO) sound better than they did previously. I love em.
> I also remembered that I have got a Nikko NR1000 as well (does it never end??)
> What model AKG would you suggest?
> 
> Bex


 

 I have vintage AKG K-240 sextett and K-340, and modern Q-701, they all sound great out of Sony. I have Nikko 9095, it sounds very warm due to deteriorate components. My Celestion are DL 6 II and 100.  Hope you can find what you like!!


----------



## captouch

@Bex, I wouldn't necessarily rule out the HD650 unless you're looking for something that's hotter with treble emphasis. Check out the HD650 appreciation thread - it's ultra-long, but even just the last 10 pages will give you an idea of the love it gets and scalability.

You told us musical preferences, and not too much bass, but didn't say whether mids are highs are more important.

I was listening to my HD650's last night through the HP out of a Harman Kardon 330B (known as a warm, tube-like receiver) and it was by no means too warm and bass was not overwhelming. It was very well balanced. If mids are important to you, the HD650's excel there. If treble/highs are more important, then there are other better options.

Remember, you've been and will continue to acquire new equipment since you seem to have the bug like the rest of us, so I'd think about the best cans for the long-term, scalability with better equipment, etc. 

Read the appreciation threads of the various options you're considering. There's typically a lot of compare/contrast there. $300-500 is non-trivial, so don't rush into a decision.


----------



## Rawrbington

The 650's sound real good with everything in my opinion.  But you need to be prepared for the rolled off highs.  If that laid back sound signature is what you want, they are a great headphone.  They are high enough impedance that you get a decent damping factor out of the vintage receivers headphone out.


----------



## ardgedee

You could go the orthodynamic route and not care about damping factor. The HiFiMan HE-500 is well-regarded by many, but it might be a little above your pricerange.


----------



## wualta

Yes, come to the dark side and become an orthonaut. Oh, and let us know which country you call home. That can make a big difference to our recommendations.


----------



## bexiesbruv

Thanks everyone.
  I haven't ruled out the HD600/650 but I am leaning towards the 600 out of the two, from the descriptions I have read.
  I am in Alberta, Canada and have a US ship to address so can buy from US efray sellers and Amazon too.
  I have to admit to being a little behind on the idea of mids and treble. What I can tell you is that when listening through speakers I generally leave everything flat and enjoy the sound that way. My favourite speakers that I own right now are the Ditton LS10. I think thats sentimental rather than because they are better than, say, the SAE Mark X pair. I also have some Mission 671 bookshelf as well.
  I am also leaning toward the AT ATH AD700 or 900XI was wondering about closed and open. Closed for the living room when she who must is watching TV and the open for when I am downstairs.
  So the closed likely will be using the Rotel or Nikko and the open for the Sony. I guess I am buying 2 pairs then.
  I did read a short thread about the freq res of headphones and thought this reply was very informative (post 36):
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582802/why-does-it-matter-if-headphones-have-a-frequency-range-below-20hz-and-above-20khz
   
  So I guess I am a little less concerned about this aspect of a headphone than I was (or thought I should be), although it does appear that the more you spend the broader freq resp you get, and of course the headphone build quality looks like it gets better as well.
   
  I dont know what roll off is, as mentioned earlier. I dont know what to listen for to know if I have heard it or not so I guess I am going to be looking up terms for the next few hours.
  As for the HiFi Man 500, I think I would have no real problem spending this amount on a couple of sets but not one right now, unless I can be convinced its the be all end all, last headphone you'll ever buy.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, it's been far too long since I've visited this thread!! Congrats guys on all of your recent purchases. All of those receivers look beastly. Interesting to see mention of hpm-100s. I found a beat up pair for 80.00. I did the best I could with mineral wool and howard's restore to bring them to look decent. But 80.00 was too good to pass up and they sound very impressive out of my kenwood 907. I still like my modded fortes better, but the hpm's are one good sounding pair of speakers.

It's funny seeing those marantz in the pics next to the pioneers and such. After owning first a sx-1010 and then a kr-9600, I was shocked at how small the marantz 2325 was when I first received it. It's larger than the 22xx series but not by much. It's still small compared to other totl receivers. But the sound is just as big though. I'm sure the 2500 and up are at least as big as the others, but then that's one a whole nother level altogether and more in the 1980 territory than 1000 series territory.


----------



## Skylab

$80 for HPM-100's that work is a steal, even if they are not the nicest looking pair. Nice one!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Am I the only one who was concerned about the stand collapsing and dropping all those receivers on the poor cat sleeping underneath??


 
   
  I'm not worried......don't even like cats.


----------



## Lou Erickson

Or go electrostatic.  A set of vintage Stax SRM Mk III's and the SRD step-up transformer would fit in that budget easily.  I can attest that they sound very nice on vintage gear.
   
  Also, if you have a vintage integrated receiver, don't worry about power.  A bunch of folks on the other forums here will say that headphone need more power, and you'll need a headphone amp... that's not as true with the vintage gear, and you probably don't need one.  I have a Headroom Millet Hybrid I haven't used in months; no point, my Marantz 2220 sounds as good.  And the 2220 has enough power to drive K-1000's just fine, so no exotic headphone amp needed.  I have the SMC-1000 amp that's "made for" the K1000's, and never use it either.
   
  Need to recable my Stax again, though.  Maybe I'll have time after the first of the year.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Wow, it's been far too long since I've visited this thread!! Congrats guys on all of your recent purchases. All of those receivers look beastly. Interesting to see mention of hpm-100s. I found a beat up pair for 80.00. I did the best I could with mineral wool and howard's restore to bring them to look decent. But 80.00 was too good to pass up and they sound very impressive out of my kenwood 907. I still like my modded fortes better, but the hpm's are one good sounding pair of speakers.
> It's funny seeing those marantz in the pics next to the pioneers and such. After owning first a sx-1010 and then a kr-9600, I was shocked at how small the marantz 2325 was when I first received it. It's larger than the 22xx series but not by much. It's still small compared to other totl receivers. But the sound is just as big though. I'm sure the 2500 and up are at least as big as the others, but then that's one a whole nother level altogether and more in the 1980 territory than 1000 series territory.


 

 One thing I've noticed about Marantz is they pack everything in there TIGHT! Even on the 2245 and 2270, everything is smashed in there in what I can only describe as beautifully organized chaos


----------



## moodyrn

Yes the internals are very neat, and I do love the marantz sound. But the most impressive internals I've seen are from have been from other brands. Here's internals from my last two purchases.

Kenwoodk ka-907 


Sansui Au-1100


Now the marantz 2325 and 2330B


----------



## billybob_jcv

I haven't read this massive thread, and I'm sure you guys get this a lot - but I really, really miss my old 70s setup. It was nothing special, 1977 Hitachi 40 wpc integrated amp, tuner & cass deck with a Technics turntable - but the system was the first significant thing I had ever bought with my own money. I hung on to it until about 10 years ago, when my wife finally convinced me to get rid of it. I gave it away to a thrift store. I don't know why I'm telling you this - it just makes me more depressed...




Anyhoo - didn't mean to be a downer - carry on with your normal programming - I will just look longingly from afar...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





billybob_jcv said:


>


 
   
  Wait...was that your amp I picked up recently at a Santa Monica thrift shop?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seems, another husband or two were also convinced to drop-it-off.
   
  Really though, I'm sharing in your sorrow at the moment. In-session later tonight, please send me a song/artist request I can silently dedicate to you.


----------



## billybob_jcv

If the lighted VU meters on the amp randomly get dim/bright, then yeah - that's probably mine!

Hmm, song/artist request...

To bring my mood back up, how about: Ted Nugent - Cat Scratch Fever, followed by Aerosmith - Walk This Way and Van Halen - Runnin' with the Devil. I think that give's you a good idea where I was in 1977...


----------



## Silent One

Okay, I don't have any of 'em but will unearth _The Motor City Madman_ in spirit for you, and play "Cat Scratch Fever" on my vintage iron.


----------



## billybob_jcv

The Nuge & I salute you!


----------



## roadcykler

Here's a question I can't seem to find the answer for anywhere else. Is there a way to find out the output from the headphone out jack? I haven't seen that in an owners manual nor anywhere else. Any ideas?


----------



## Skylab

If you know the WPC of your amp/receiver, and you can somehow find out the value of the dropping resistors used, then you can calculate the output power into a given impedance.


----------



## moodyrn

The value of the resistors can be found in your service manual. Audiokarma have service manuals for most vintage receivers/amp. That would be a good resource.


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The value of the resistors can be found in your service manual. Audiokarma have service manuals for most vintage receivers/amp. That would be a good resource.


 
  Thanks. I did a search with the model number and there are no matches in anything that looks like a service manual thread but I'll keep looking. Maybe I'll open it up and see what I can find that way too.


----------



## wualta

The good news is, most receivers being talked about here have so much power available that unless you're talking about an extremely inefficient headphone (the Wharfedale Isodynamic, Pioneer SE-700 and AKG K1000 come to mind, and one or two of the Neo Orthos), headphone jack power output is not a spec you have to worry about. Take a look at Rod Elliott's classic headphone coupler circuit to get an idea of the power levels involved.


----------



## moodyrn

roadcykler said:


> Thanks. I did a search with the model number and there are no matches in anything that looks like a service manual thread but I'll keep looking. Maybe I'll open it up and see what I can find that way too.




It's not a thread. Here's a link. There's no guarantee yours will be there, but most of them are.http://www.akdatabase.com/


----------



## The Fed

I thought i'd chime in on a sweet find I made the other day..... I have a Pioneer 1050 out in my Garage and a Carver receiver/ amp set up in my house for speakers but never really fancied the Carver unit for headphones..... And the Garage is for doing stuff so cant very well be tethered to the receiver with headphones.... Both units are speaker rigs but I've been hoping to find a decent power wars era receiver for my desktop but the prices have skyrocketed last couple of years... I gather CNet and Esquire have something do to with this but i still was hoping to stumble across a good unit at thrift shops that was priced reasonably.

This weekend I was out diggling with my wife at some thrift shops, in my heart of hearts I am always hoping to find a Kenny 9600 for reasonable thrift store dollars which I know is super overkill but instead I found a Realistic 64b receiver at The Sally.... Its the one that came in the wooden desk from Radio Shack so was lacking casework (as the desk was not included... but the face panel and knobs were in perfect condition, lamps were all working and the people at SA said it was working... so I Took it home for 15 bucks.

Did some essential cleaning and plugged in my old iPod thru The auxillary RCA jacks plugged in my headphones and took a listen.... Blown away.
It has the typical buzzing sound with no music but as soon as the music hit... Pure magic, lays waste to my Violectric and ALO amps.... Some would call it "warm" but It is so weighty, robust and full bodied it was hard to believevthe iPod was my source. 

Kinda gnarly to think a Radio Shack beater receiver from the 70's can run circles around top notch headphone amps but ears dont lie...
Now i need to find or build some casework and am thinking about swapping out the two main Unicon caps but then again, if it aint broke....


----------



## moodyrn

Great find, congrats.


----------



## Rossliew

Just snagged a recapped and serviced Pioneer SX-1280  Awaiting delivery and it shall be used to primarily power my HE-6..


----------



## Skylab

Congrats! We will look forward to pics


----------



## Silent One

1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 Update:
   
  Some of you may recall that when I bought my iron, the Fluoroscan meters did not work. So, after enjoying my price-adjusted purchase for some six odd months, I fired up the rig @ midnight for a promising overnight session. 
   
  With my amp sitting on the lowest shelf, 0.5" off the floor, I rarely look down when I lean over to hit "Power." First thing I do is make sure the big fat round volume know is turned to zero and _then I hit it. _
   
  I stepped out the room for a hot minute. Upon my approach...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 well, I'll be _John Brown!_ Both meters were fully illuminated. Ain't never seen 'em lit up before. 5.5 hours have now past and they're still lit. However, the power meters are intermittent. 
   
  Although, I never cleaned the internal switches and things, I suspect I might have a short. Because, when reviewing the selectors with the volume turned all the way down in AUX mode (DAC is connected here), I can hear music playing at low volume when I select either FM-AM-PHONO 2-PHONO 1. But no sound output with AUX with volume all the way down.
   
  Somehow, there's a connection between the fluoroscan meters and these switches. Though I haven't fixed anything yet, I'm still excited this morning to finally have seen this bad boy in all its glory.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





silent one said:


>


 
   
  Sometime miracle just happens like bad luck!! Congrats!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks. I'm hoping a good Betty Ford DeOx treatment will set it straight. Since I sit sideways a mere 12" from the rack, I rarely lean over to look down. Had I not left the room, a few more weeks might have passed before I noticed anything.


----------



## Skylab

Check the PCB connector cables when you are in there cleaning, and disconnect, clean, and reconnect. That might be all you need ! Sweet.


----------



## Silent One

Appreciate the guidance. Gonna sleep on it right about..._now._


----------



## moodyrn

Glad they started working. Hopefully a little cleaning will make it permanent.


----------



## Lee Harvey

That's cool that your fluoroscan displays are now lighting up.  She looks real pretty!  I have a 10+ year old NAD A/V receiver that takes about 10 minutes for its fluoroscan display to light up after its powered on.  Maybe I need to do some internal cleaning on it too?


----------



## wualta

Fluroscantastic! I wonder if there's high voltage on those connector pins. If so, it behooves to either eliminate the connectors and hard-wire the display to the pcb, or thoroughly clean the connectors with something like DeoxIT and follow up with a protecting liquid like DeoxIT Gold.
   
  I enjoyed this message on the Caig website informing us customers that the site would be down, or downish, in the coming weeks:
   
   
  [size=small]*During the weeks of December 3rd and 10th their maybe delays in shipments.*[/size]
  [size=small]*Thank you for your patience and inconvenience during this time.*[/size]
   
  [size=x-small]UPDATE: I'm chagrined to learn that Pioneer's trademarked name for their famous display is not "Fluoroscan", as I'd always thought, but _*Fluroscan*._ Obviously this can cause confusion in a search, since a very large number of us have had it in our heads as "Fluoroscan". [/size]


----------



## Silent One

After retiring this morning @ 0900 hours, I just woke up @ 1400 hours. Leaned over to hit "Power" - got more lights than displays at Holiday! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Though, I do have a confession to make. Initially, when I took the case off for cleaning when I first brought it home, I discovered I had completely run out of cleaner.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Looked down at all the dirt and simply resigned to putting the case back on. _Wished I'd handled it the first time._


----------



## wualta

Sometimes all it takes is unplugging a connector, glaring at it, then plugging it back in. Sometimes a quick wiggle does it.


----------



## Silent One

Even though I lack cleaner, I should just go ahead and _get in there and make something happen!_


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Sometimes all it takes is unplugging a connector, glaring at it, then plugging it back in. Sometimes a quick wiggle does it.


 
   
  Turns out angry stares not only work on bad dogs, they work on bad VU meters. Who knew?


----------



## wualta

Speaking of VU meters: Their plastic faces can pick up static charges strong enough to pull the needle mid-scale. In this case, going in for the glower and sneakily exhaling some high-humidity breath is a magical cure. Impress your non-audio friends.
   
  Silent One: Why not "air test" the amp-- ie, continue using it as normal-- and see how long it takes for the meters to fail again, and under what conditions. They might not fail. But if they do, you'll definitely want some contact cleaner close at hand. At least you know it's not very likely to be a problem in the display (which I believe is vacuum-fluorescent, or VF) itself. Here's a possible clue from the Antique Radios site:
   
  "A very common failure of Fluroscan displays is for the connections going to the heater [ie, filament] to tear loose from the circuit board that the panel solders into. The reason for this is that the heater connections get very hot during use, and after many heat/cool cycles the solder gets brittle."


----------



## Silent One

Great stuff, wualta! I have tonight off from the listening room - letting my inner ears expand - will resume Wed/Thur hot on its tracks. Today, at the top of each hour, I kept checking by powering up. The fluoroscan meters continue to "light" as if nuthin' ever happened. 
   
  Although, it would not be my aim, I know how to make the meters go dark without touching a thing - invite someone over to see how cool these fluoroscans look.


----------



## FAC 33

Hey folks, first off, thanks for this thread. I found it a few days ago while doing some headphone research and although it took me about 4 days to get all the way through, it was a really fun read. 
   
  The question I wish to pose has to do with headphones, but since I'm specifically looking to pair something to a vintage receiver, I thought this thread might be most appropriate. I've just recently pulled some of my old audio gear out of storage because I want to start digging back into my vinyl collection again. Unfortunately, with a wife and three kids, I very rarely have the living room to myself, so I've been researching some decent headphones. 
   
  My receiver is a Pioneer SX-1050, and my primary source will be a Technics SL-1301 table, at least for now. I may invest in a DAC soon, but spinning records is my first priority. I have a couple pair of cheap full-size headphones, and a couple pair of nicer in-ear monitors, but I'd like to try something over-the-ear, a little up the food chain. 
   
  I've kind of zeroed in toward the HE-400 or HD-650 - that would be the price range I'm looking to start at as I experiment. I mostly listen to rock/indie rock/new wave and some EDM. I certainly don't want to hijack this wonderful thread, but if anyone has any reaction to whether one or both of these would pair well with the 1050, I'd really appreciate it!


----------



## shipsupt

Sounds like you're going to have some fun there @FAC 33!  And you've done plenty of research! 
   
  Between the two I'd recommend the HD-650 (or 600 for that matter) over the HE-400.  I'm just not a fan of the 400, even though the price point is attractive.  If you can find a HE-500 or 5LE used, or spring a little more for one of those new, I'd then say the decision will be a little harder.
   
  The HD-6XX will be sound great from the 1050.  You'll find plenty of us here that are driving one of the two with our vintage Pioneers.
   
  There is a pretty good difference in sound signature between the HE-400 and the HD-650, so you may want to do some more reading on peoples impressions, or better yet see if you can audition each of them to see if one of the sounds strikes you better than the other.


----------



## weverb

Here is what was said with matching the 650 with my SX-950. Similar to your 1050. Just less power.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/5970#post_8752029


----------



## FAC 33

Thanks for the replies! I have seen the large thread comparing these two sets of headphones, but my head is kind of spinning, thus why I registered and decided to ask you vintage experts... I thought some advice specifically related to one of these old Pioneers might help me make a decision. I'm also honestly probably a little too much of a newb in the headphone realm to be able to completely parse the information. I've loved music all my life, and growing up I had a definite interest in gear, but headphones have never been a priority before. So a lot of the vocabulary just goes over my head at this point. 
   
  weverb, did you ultimately get a pair of 650s? If so, how are they working out with your 950? 
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## Silent One

Are there any stores or local head-fier's in your area you could visit/meet?


----------



## FAC 33

I really should try to figure that out, huh? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm in Baton Rouge, LA, not exactly a retail hotbed, but honestly I have never even checked into local audio stores - the only ones I've seen around are the typical chains (Best Buy, hh gregg, Conn's).
   
  Re-reading some of the other threads, it sounds like the 650s might be better if my listening leans more to rock. I guess I'm leaning that way. Can't wait to see what the old 1050 sounds like through some good headphones. Thanks for the advice - I'll try to avoid cluttering this thread any further with my individual needs!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





fac 33 said:


> I really should try to figure that out, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Send fellow member vinyllp33 a PM and see if he can advise. He's in NOLA..._best to you._


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





fac 33 said:


> weverb, did you ultimately get a pair of 650s? If so, how are they working out with your 950?


 
   
  So far all I have tried is a set of vintage Pioneer Monitor 10's. I am in the same situation (looking at same models and experience) as you with headphones. I am currently saving and leaning towards trying the HE-500. I was about to post something similar, but you beat me to it. My difference is I also listen to jazz and female vocal besides rock.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





fac 33 said:


> I really should try to figure that out, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have both HD600's and HD650's and a SX-780 and SX-1080.  Either receiver will drive the Sennheisers better than most dedicated headphone amps.  You will get great bass, very detailed highs and a very rich midrange through either of those two headphones.  Check amazon.com right now because they are running sales on the Sennheisers until Christmas.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Quote: 





fac 33 said:


> Hey folks, first off, thanks for this thread. I found it a few days ago while doing some headphone research and although it took me about 4 days to get all the way through, it was a really fun read.
> 
> The question I wish to pose has to do with headphones, but since I'm specifically looking to pair something to a vintage receiver, I thought this thread might be most appropriate. I've just recently pulled some of my old audio gear out of storage because I want to start digging back into my vinyl collection again. Unfortunately, with a wife and three kids, I very rarely have the living room to myself, so I've been researching some decent headphones.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the SX-780, which is supposedly fairly indicative of the Pioneer "House-sound" from that era, and I can say that the HE-400's sound beautiful off of it, more so than anything I've yet tried. the synergy is great, with the pioneer's strong, clean sound cutting through any of the little remaining "mush" in the HE-400's sound sig, and giving the entire frequency spectrum very precise control. Still waiting to finish up my M^3 to see if such a large dedicated headphone amp can outdo the vintage iron.


----------



## ozarkcdn

Hi all - I was just thinking... 'I wonder what that old gear might sound like....'  and, lo and behold, here's the thread!  I'm not too familiar with the circuits of vintage 70's gear, but wouldn't mind hitting some of the local thrift shops to see if there was anything worth checking out that would be better than my computer's motherboard output... I've seen marantz and sansui mentioned several times in the posts I've read.  Is there a 'top ten' or 'bottom ten' list that I might be able to use to save a little time scouring the shops?


----------



## palmfish

70s vintage gear is very popular now and very difficult to find in thrift stores now. You'll mostly see 80s and 90s stuff.


----------



## FAC 33

Well, after analyzing it to death, I decided to pull the trigger on the HE-400s (over the HD-650s) to pair with my SX-1050. Can't wait to give it a try in a few days!


----------



## Gallade475

I have been eyeing some McIntosh Gear for around 100 in great condition. Should I spring for it over the similarly priced stuff from pioneer and other brands?


----------



## calipilot227

YES.


----------



## ardgedee

There are very few things McIntosh has made that I can imagine being overpriced at $100 in great condition.
   
  Worth being aware, at least, that they have a signature sound that some people like and others don't... in the worst case, you will find it easy to get your money back if you decide to replace it.


----------



## Gallade475

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> There are very few things McIntosh has made that I can imagine being overpriced at $100 in great condition.
> 
> Worth being aware, at least, that they have a signature sound that some people like and others don't... in the worst case, you will find it easy to get your money back if you decide to replace it.


 
  i'm curious as to what is the signature sound, Warm, cold, tubey solid state, or what?


----------



## moodyrn

ardgedee said:


> There are very few things McIntosh has made that I can imagine being overpriced at $100 in great condition.
> 
> Worth being aware, at least, that they have a signature sound that some people like and others don't... in the worst case, you will find it easy to get your money back if you decide to replace it.




I agree there are some good sounding vintage macs, but unless we're talking about some of their vintage tube amps, I wouldn't pass over marantz, pioneer etc to spring for a mac.


----------



## joseph69

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> 70s vintage gear is very popular now and very difficult to find in thrift stores now. You'll mostly see 80s and 90s stuff.


 
  Speaking about 90's stuff, I have a 1991 adcom gtp400 pre-amp/tuuner, any input on if I would benifit from a headphone amp like the bellari ha540 or a matrix m stage or little dot mk1+/mklll as compared to my adcom for driving my alessandro ms2i's. Any input would be appreciated. Thank's.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





gallade475 said:


> i'm curious as to what is the signature sound, Warm, cold, tubey solid state, or what?


 
   
  The characteristic sound is warm and smooth. I don't know to what extent all their equipment sounds like that, though.
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I agree there are some good sounding vintage macs, but unless we're talking about some of their vintage tube amps, I wouldn't pass over marantz, pioneer etc to spring for a mac.


 
   
  Sure, but I suspect you can't go wrong by getting a McIntosh receiver or integrated for $100: If you like it, you've scored a find. If you don't like it, it will be very easy to trade up. (Usual caveats and assumptions that it looks good and is in full working condition, of course, but that applies to ALL vintage equipment.)


----------



## bexiesbruv

Quote: 





fac 33 said:


> Well, after analyzing it to death, I decided to pull the trigger on the HE-400s (over the HD-650s) to pair with my SX-1050. Can't wait to give it a try in a few days!


 
  I am in exactly the same situation as you are. Ultimately, my choice has come down to two lower budget pairs, an HD598 and an ATA700X. I have no place locally to try much of anything in the equipment range I want to buy and the one place that I could audition, has nothing in the price range. I have several older amps and figure one "should" sound OK to excellent, with this choice. The other reason for going this route is that I, like you (I think), cannot relate to any of the descriptive listening terms used in the reviews. I figure, get a pair, listen to them and then compare what I am hearing to the reviews and then, if I find my purchases lacking, I will be able to hone in on why, and modify my next buying round accordingly. I figure selling the headphones locally will be easy enough and I might even make some money! But as I also have 3 kids, I might have to give them away. One of my boys has already got dibs on the Rotel amp I am currently using with a cheap pair of phones I just bought and modified to get me through to when my purchases arrive.
  Love this thread!


----------



## Skylab

joseph69 said:


> Speaking about 90's stuff, I have a 1991 adcom gtp400 pre-amp/tuuner, any input on if I would benifit from a headphone amp like the bellari ha540 or a matrix m stage or little dot mk1+/mklll as compared to my adcom for driving my alessandro ms2i's. Any input would be appreciated. Thank's.




For efficient headphones like the Alessandro, I do not think you would benefit much versus using the Adcom. Nice piece, that.


----------



## joseph69

Thank's for your opinion, After seeing your really nice collection of phone's and amp's I respect your opinion, and I know there's always something better, but for the money I paid for this component back in 1989,  it sounds really nice to me and really didn't think I would benifit from a headphone amp too much. (Though I have no experience with a dedicated headphone amp). Thank's for your opinion, (really nice stuff you have).


----------



## ozarkcdn

Well.... That didn't take long... 

New owner of a Sansui 350 A - we'll see how she works out driving some phones when I get home and the kids are down 

The main lamp behind the tuner is a little dim, but the room is also pretty bright. Looks like working on an old Ford pickup though, plenty of room to work in there and no bloody SMC to spoil the mood. Not sure if it's worth recapping and all that, I'll wait to find a nice pair of open phones to see how the unit sounds. I have a pair of sr60's and m50's but I'm not sure either one would resolve enough to lead me to see if there are any problems with the unit and if recapping is necessary (besides pools of cap juice leaked on the boards inside).


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





ozarkcdn said:


> Well.... That didn't take long...
> New owner of a Sansui 350 A - we'll see how she works out driving some phones when I get home and the kids are down


 
   
  Looks nice!
   
   
  I've noticed a little issue with my SX-1250. After it warms up, the right channel hisses and buzzes a little. This occurs with speakers or headphones. Am I looking at a service trip, or could it be a something simple?


----------



## Skylab

Have you ever treated the switches and controls with deoxit?


----------



## joseph69

I sometimes have the same issue with my pre-amp, can I use a contact cleaner or should I buy deoxit? If so I never heard of it, where can I buy some? Also should the unit be taken apart or can I spray it through the space between the volume knob and face plate? (If it is even a spray). Thank you.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Have you ever treated the switches and controls with deoxit?


 
  That I have not. When I played with them initially, I didn't notice any noise. I'll give that a try. I forgot to mention the heat sinks are noticeably warmer on the right side as well.


----------



## Skylab

Hmmm...well if the heatsink is noticeably hotter on the right side, that likely means that the bias is off for that channel. That's not something you should mess with unless you truly know what you are doing, so you might want to take it to a shop. If the bias is really far off you could eventually burn up the output transistors. At least on the SX-1250 there are currently available drop in replacements. On the SX-xx80 series, the output devices are unobtainable (other than used ones).


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





joseph69 said:


> I sometimes have the same issue with my pre-amp, can I use a contact cleaner or should I buy deoxit? If so I never heard of it, where can I buy some? Also should the unit be taken apart or can I spray it through the space between the volume knob and face plate? (If it is even a spray). Thank you.


 
   
  If you need some right away, your friendly local Radio Shack will have it. A small can is good for two or three receivers, depending on how many pots and contacts you need to clean.
   
  You can get it cheaper online, assuming the added shipping isn't excessive.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for the info!


----------



## ozarkcdn

Hey guys - well, brought the Sansui home tonight, pulled the case off, cleaned the pots with cleaner & lube, dusted it out and etc... Fired it up and sounded pretty good... but... there's a weird problem.  There's stereo, but not the complete band.  Playing Sade, Hang on to your love, there's the first 45 sec or so where that guitar (telecaster?) alternates between the L and R channels.  Well, when it's on the L channel, you can only hear an echo of it on the R.  I tried to run a line out from the computer to another input and it did the same thing. Seemed that the drums, bass guitar, vocals, cymbals all were ok, just that particular band was off, and it must be a pretty tight band of frequencies I guess.  Any ideas?
   
  ---
   
  Well... that's crazy... it stopped... ran a bunch of test tones through the channels and must have bust some electrons loose... or the contact cleaner finally dried...


----------



## PhoenixG

I've dusted off some headphones that I can't find out anything about and I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I got these as as an afterthought at a yard sale when they were thrown in with a receiver. 
  What can you guys tell me about a pair of JVC HP-660. I was able to find 3 pictures online, but they didn't help much- here's one.
  http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/c7/c7caa2ad_jvc2w.jpeg


----------



## Silent One

A start:
   
  http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/jvc_hp_660.html
   
  Produced in 1980...


----------



## Chops

Does anyone on here have any experience with the Sansui G-7000 as a headphone amp?
   
  I just stumbled across this thread this morning and just skimmed through a few pages, but never got around to trying my Mad Dogs on the G-7000. Been running around like my head chopped off today.
   
  Anyway, I have a mint beauty that I would love to try. If anything, if it performs really good, I might just make it the main amp for my rig.
   
  Any thoughts?
   
  And a pic...


----------



## Silent One

Any thoughts? As a matter of fact, I do. That's some beautiful iron!


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Any thoughts? As a matter of fact, I do. That's some beautiful iron!


 
   
   
  +1
   
  I dig it!


----------



## Skylab

You already have the G-7000? Well then by all means try it, man!

I did have a G-7000 for a while recently. It sounded great with speakers, but unfortunately there was too much hiss with headphones. And unlike my Sansui 9090DB, engaging the Muting did not reduce the hiss. But that could have just been my sample, which was nice, but not serviced in any way.


----------



## moodyrn

I had the same issue with my au-11000. Wonderful speaker amp, but outside of he-6, the headphone out was unusable. It hissed like crazy, and all the -20db button did was lower the volume. It didn't do anything for the hiss, so I ultimately sold it as well. A real shame since it sounded so good with speakers.


----------



## Chops

Well I can safely say, even with the volume up at "30" on the dial, there's absolutely ZERO hiss, buzz, hum, etc, etc present. Something else I can safely say, the headphone out on the G-7000 has some serious balls!
   
  I have all tone controls bypassed and am getting loads of tight, deep bass, open, natural midrange, and extended, smooth and detailed treble. The sound stage is definitely wider and deeper than either my FiiO E11 or modded tube amp. It was an extremely good idea to try out this Sansui receiver. It makes for a great headphone amp, not to mention it looks damn sexy all lit up at night with the power meters bouncing around.
   
  One other thing I want to add... The way this receiver performs, it really makes the Mad Dogs sound even more like open cans!
   
  I wonder how the Sansui G-7000 compares to something like the Schiit Asgard, which was an amp I was seriously considering, up until now.
   
  And here comes what's probably a stupid question, but... What do these old receivers use as the power output stage for the headphone section? Is it using the main "speaker" output transistors?


----------



## ardgedee

chops said:


> And here comes what's probably a stupid question, but... What do these old receivers use as the power output stage for the headphone section? Is it using the main "speaker" output transistors?




Not a stupid question at all. Most vintage receivers, yes, use the main speaker amplifier section to drive the headphones. The signal is passed through a circuit to pad it down to headphone-acceptable levels.

Congratulations on that thing. Looks great!


----------



## joseph69

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Not a stupid question at all. Most vintage receivers, yes, use the main speaker amplifier section to drive the headphones. The signal is passed through a circuit to pad it down to headphone-acceptable levels.
> Congratulations on that thing. Looks great!


 
  Would you happen to know if the 1989 ADCOM GTP-400 uses the the main speaker amp in the  same way for the headphone jack? Because the main outs/headphone jack are always controlled at the same time with the volume controll, (at all times), I was wondering this same thing. Thank's.


----------



## ardgedee

joseph69 said:


> Would you happen to know if the 1989 ADCOM GTP-400 uses the the main speaker amp in the  same way for the headphone jack?




No idea, sorry.


----------



## joseph69

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> No idea, sorry.


 
  Thank's anyway, doing some research on it, thought you may have known! Thank's.


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Not a stupid question at all. Most vintage receivers, yes, use the main speaker amplifier section to drive the headphones. The signal is passed through a circuit to pad it down to headphone-acceptable levels.
> Congratulations on that thing. Looks great!


 
   
  Thanks for the answer. That would explain why this thing sounds so darn good. I mean, it sounds REALLY good.
   
  I'm listening to some Eric Clapton right now and can't get over how real his voice sounds, not to mention all of the "space" around him and the other instruments. Even though it was years ago and with different cans (HD600's and 650's), I never heard this music sound this good through a well run-in Cary Audio SLi-80 I had for a while on loan.
   
  In short, I'm quite impressed!
   
   
  Also, I'm curious is any of you have directly compared these old receivers to modern, higher dollar dedicated headphone amps. It would be interesting to see how these vintage receivers stack up against the new dedicated gear.


----------



## Silent One

Well, with the weekend here, you can always start reading from the front.


----------



## Skylab

joseph69 said:


> Would you happen to know if the 1989 ADCOM GTP-400 uses the the main speaker amp in the  same way for the headphone jack? Because the main outs/headphone jack are always controlled at the same time with the volume controll, (at all times), I was wondering this same thing. Thank's.




The GTP-400 doesn't have a "main speaker amp" - it isn't a power amp, and doesn't have a power amp section. It's a preamp (well, a "tuner-preamp" to be exact, which differs from a receiver specifically in that there is no power amp section). So it is less clear what is driving the headphone out. Probably a separate section.



chops said:


> I wonder how the Sansui G-7000 compares to something like the Schiit Asgard, which was an amp I was seriously considering, up until now.




I have never heard the Asgard, and while I have great respect for Schiit products, I HIGHLY doubt you would find the Asgard to be an improvement versus the headphone out of the Sansui. The headphone out of my big vintage receivers significantly outperforms every entry level headphone amp I have ever heard, and even some high end ones


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have never heard the Asgard, and while I have great respect for Schiit products, I HIGHLY doubt you would find the Asgard to be an improvement versus the headphone out of the Sansui. The headphone out of my big vintage receivers significantly outperforms every entry level headphone amp I have ever heard, and even some high end ones


 
   
  Thanks Skylab.
   
  That means I can save some money in the future then! LOL
   
  Here's a nasty phone pic of the main rig...


----------



## Silent One

Chops, you'd never know if Wally was just outside on the back porch, since you'd be inside groovin' without a care in the world. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It looks great!


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





chops said:


> Well I can safely say, even with the volume up at "30" on the dial, there's absolutely ZERO hiss, buzz, hum, etc, etc present. Something else I can safely say, the headphone out on the G-7000 has some serious balls!
> 
> I have all tone controls bypassed and am getting loads of tight, deep bass, open, natural midrange, and extended, smooth and detailed treble. The sound stage is definitely wider and deeper than either my FiiO E11 or modded tube amp. It was an extremely good idea to try out this Sansui receiver. It makes for a great headphone amp, not to mention it looks damn sexy all lit up at night with the power meters bouncing around.
> 
> ...


 
   
  My Pioneer receivers blow the doors off of my Schiit Lyr headphone amp no matter what tube-rolling I have done on the Lyr.  I can pretty much say your Sansui will shame an Asgard for driving headphones.


----------



## joseph69

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The GTP-400 doesn't have a "main speaker amp" - it isn't a power amp, and doesn't have a power amp section. It's a preamp (well, a "tuner-preamp" to be exact, which differs from a receiver specifically in that there is no power amp section). So it is less clear what is driving the headphone out. Probably a separate section.
> I have never heard the Asgard, and while I have great respect for Schiit products, I HIGHLY doubt you would find the Asgard to be an improvement versus the headphone out of the Sansui. The headphone out of my big vintage receivers significantly outperforms every entry level headphone amp I have ever heard, and even some high end ones


 
  Thank's, I know it is a pre-amp tuner, not a power amp, upon further research I found out it has a pre-amp going to the main out's and has a seperate amp for the headphone out, but the volume will control both at the same time. It's been so long that I've had this unit I had forgot, anyway I was just curious because I am very happy with the sound from coming out of it as compared to listening to my phones through my sony cdp-701es, wich by the way sounded good also, but not like the adcom. Thank you for the info I appreciate your feedback. Thank's again.


----------



## Rossliew

Finally I have taken delivery of my first vintage monster amp, the Pioneer SX-1280, bought specifically to drive my HE-6 cans. Even on first listen, i'm loving every minute of it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Through the headphone jack, the HE-6 sounded full bodied with taut and deep bass, excellent dynamics and PRAT to make these cans suitable for both audiophile recordings and metal. Anyone who is into metal/hardcore should try these cans out with a vintage monster amp pronto. You will not regret it! 
   
  Now, i need to experiment with driving the cans off the speaker tap and see if using it as a power amp paired with my DIY tube pre-amp will offer any noticeable improvements in sound...
   
  Here's a pic for ya all


----------



## Skylab

With an amp as powerful as the SX-1280 (which is a terrific piece!), I would not bother with the speaker taps. The headphone out has more than enough power for the HE-6, and of course it's driven off the same amp as drives the speakers...


----------



## Happy Camper

The 6s need a kick in the pants and that hog is just the ticket. And you can run a two channel speaker rig with Maggies. LIfe is good.


----------



## Skylab

I have an SX-1980 "problem". The problem is I like them TOO MUCH. I just bought a THIRD  I have for a while had two that are fully restored, which get used very regularly. I was offered on a local sale this one, not restored but absolutely stone mint inside and out, original box, manual, and even the service manual on microfiche!!! It needed to have the DC offset adjusted down from @300mv/channel, but it adjusted nicely to under 10mv each side. And wow is it a stunner!



So this is the "back-up"...man I'm obsessed.


----------



## BGRoberts

Beautiful!
  I keep telling myself my sx-1250 is "enough".
  But you make me lust after these sx-1980's you tease me with.....
  ~BG


----------



## Lee Harvey

Wow! It looks great.  How does one man manage to find these rare SX-1980's?  You are like a magnet and they just seem to be drawn to you.


----------



## moodyrn

Very nice Skylab!! Oh, and I completely understand.


----------



## moodyrn

rossliew said:


> Finally I have taken delivery of my first vintage monster amp, the Pioneer SX-1280, bought specifically to drive my HE-6 cans. Even on first listen, i'm loving every minute of it
> 
> Through the headphone jack, the HE-6 sounded full bodied with taut and deep bass, excellent dynamics and PRAT to make these cans suitable for both audiophile recordings and metal. Anyone who is into metal/hardcore should try these cans out with a vintage monster amp pronto. You will not regret it!
> 
> ...





Looks great. Congrats on a wonderful find.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> Very nice Skylab!! Oh, and I completely understand.




Thanks, my friend!!! 




lee harvey said:


> Wow! It looks great.  How does one man manage to find these rare SX-1980's?  You are like a magnet and they just seem to be drawn to you.




The problem is, if you really want them, they are out there. One has to be both vigilant and patient


----------



## wualta

I understand as well. They're not making these anymore, some of the parts are hard or impossible to find, and often, not always, it costs less to buy another example of a favorite bit of gear than to have it repaired. I'm more than three deep on some of mine.


----------



## riverrat

The Sansui G-X000 series is widely regarded as a peak in quality. The next G-X500 series was still nice but a step down in build quality.
   
  Earlier Sansui receivers have also many fans, with good reason. The earlier models may sound slightly warmer; "tubey-er" and perhaps a bit less accurate.
   
  I think a model or two down from TOTL is often a sweet spot for vintage gear. A few less bells and whistles, not as much focus on brute power and beating the other manufacturers, but still plenty of juice, quality parts, and features.
   
  Your G-7000 is right in there. I am not surprised it sounds nice.
   
  FWIW, my main amplification is a completely recapped Sansui AU-D11 II integrated.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have an SX-1980 "problem". The problem is I like them TOO MUCH. I just bought a THIRD
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My God, it looks like you got in a time machine and went back to 78 to pick that one up............. just beautiful!


----------



## claybum

I do believe the Vintage Gods are smiling down upon us all.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Some very nice gear acquired here recently.


----------



## Silent One

I decided to remain silent on just how long I've been staring at this thing. Think I'll get up now and do something constructive.


----------



## Rossliew

Skylab,
   
  I've tried the HE-6 via the speaker taps and they do sound noticeably better, at least to these ears and there seems to be more space and a wider soundstage to the music. As i tell my buddies here, "more speed, more slam" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  HC, 
   
  I don't have maggies or any other speakers for that matter, With the HE-6 around, do we really need any? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, anyone here (Skylab, if you may) can advise if the Sony STR-V7 would be a good buy and how would it compare to the SX-1280, sound-wise? Thanks!


----------



## Rossliew

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Looks great. Congrats on a wonderful find.


 
  Thanks, mate! Lovin' every minute of my listening sessions


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Chops, you'd never know if Wally was just outside on the back porch, since you'd be inside groovin' without a care in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Silent One, though I'm a little confused on who exactly "Wally" is...


----------



## Skylab

rossliew said:


> Skylab,
> 
> I've tried the HE-6 via the speaker taps and they do sound noticeably better, at least to these ears and there seems to be more space and a wider soundstage to the music. As i tell my buddies here, "more speed, more slam"
> 
> ...




If it sounds better to you via the speaker taps, then by all means use them! On the Sony, sorry to say I've not heard that one.




wualta said:


> I understand as well. They're not making these anymore, some of the parts are hard or impossible to find, and often, not always, it costs less to buy another example of a favorite bit of gear than to have it repaired. I'm more than three deep on some of mine.




You (of course) hit the nail on the head. I have two systems that use the 1980 that I use one daily (attic/office part of my house) and the other several times a week especially on weekends (basement). I do not want to be without a 1980 in either rig!




fearless1 said:


> My God, it looks like you got in a time machine and went back to 78 to pick that one up............. just beautiful!




Thanks! That was the other very cool thing here. With the original box, all the paperwork, and the condition, it was like unboxing a new one!


----------



## Cante Ista




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





chops said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh, sorry. Was referring to "Wally Gator..."


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Oh, sorry. Was referring to "Wally Gator..."


 
   
  Oh! Wow, that's going back a few years. LOL
   
  Funny you mention that as the lake we have here at the new apartment actually has a resident alligator. We've seen him twice now within the week of being here, on the other side of the lake, sunbathing.


----------



## Silent One

Music emanating from vintage receivers is always a draw.


----------



## weverb

Just recently received a set of HE-500's last week to use with my 950. Silly question for you experts. How or what did you use to connect your headphones to the speaker tabs in the back? Did you just buy a headphone extension cable and cut it? Just want a quick and inexspensive option to try the HE-500's on. If there is a noticable sound difference, then I would have a better option made up or purchased.


----------



## palmfish

I tried my HE-500's off speaker taps when I had them and they sounded exactly the same has the headphone jack. There really is no need to use speaker taps unless you have really innefficient headphones, which the HE-500 is not. Hell, I thought the HE-500 sounded great plugged right into my iPod Touch!


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I tried my HE-500's off speaker taps when I had them and they sounded exactly the same has the headphone jack. There really is no need to use speaker taps unless you have really innefficient headphones, which the HE-500 is not. Hell, I thought the HE-500 sounded great plugged right into my iPod Touch!


 
   
  Ok, thanks. Was just wondering if something like this 1/4" stereo female to two rca's connector would have worked. If you stripped the rca's off.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/HOSA-STEREO-PHONE-1-TIP-1-RING/dp/B000068O5C/ref=sr_1_42?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1355100110&sr=1-42&keywords=1%2F4+stereo+female+2+rca+male


----------



## Skylab

NO! I don't think you can do that, as that will have a common ground that the receivers won't like. You need to get cables made for the HiFiMan headphones to connect to speaker tabs. The are some makers that have not too expensive ones I believe.


----------



## Chops

Not to go too far off topic, but what did the SX-1980 originally go for when new? I'm only asking because I just stumbled across one on eBay with just a few minutes left to go. I was amazed when I saw the auction end at $1825!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 WOW!


----------



## Rossliew

Weverb,
   
  You best get the HE adaptor (basically a resistor) from Head Direct and connect a pair of speaker cables from the speaker taps to the adaptor and then the HE-500 balanced 4-in XLR to the adaptor at the other end. You may need to get the stock HE-6 balanced cables for your HE-500 if you don't have it already.
   
  To me, there is a very noticeable sound improvement via the speaker taps.
   
  Happy listening!


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





skylab said:


> NO! I don't think you can do that, as that will have a common ground that the receivers won't like. You need to get cables made for the HiFiMan headphones to connect to speaker tabs. The are some makers that have not too expensive ones I believe.


 
   
  I will take your word for it since you would know better than I. Just thought according to the 950's schematic, that the speaker tabs had a shared ground too.
   
  Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Weverb,
> 
> You best get the HE adaptor (basically a resistor) from Head Direct and connect a pair of speaker cables from the speaker taps to the adaptor and then the HE-500 balanced 4-in XLR to the adaptor at the other end. You may need to get the stock HE-6 balanced cables for your HE-500 if you don't have it already.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Cool idea! I will look into a stock HE-6 cable. Maybe someone has upgraded and selling one cheap?


----------



## Skylab

chops said:


> Not to go too far off topic, but what did the SX-1980 originally go for when new? I'm only asking because I just stumbled across one on eBay with just a few minutes left to go. I was amazed when I saw the auction end at $1825!! :eek:  WOW!




It sold for $1,295...in 1978! Adjusted for inflation that would be over $4,500 today. On eBay working ones seem to go from $1,500-$3,500 depending on condition, how many are on eBay at the time, etc etc.


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





skylab said:


> It sold for $1,295...in 1978! Adjusted for inflation that would be over $4,500 today. On eBay working ones seem to go from $1,500-$3,500 depending on condition, how many are on eBay at the time, etc etc.


 
   
  Thank you kind sir. That's just simply amazing to me. And $3,500 I would have never thought of! Youch!


----------



## Rossliew

Quote: 





riverrat said:


> The Sansui G-X000 series is widely regarded as a peak in quality. The next G-X500 series was still nice but a step down in build quality.
> 
> Earlier Sansui receivers have also many fans, with good reason. The earlier models may sound slightly warmer; "tubey-er" and perhaps a bit less accurate.
> 
> ...


 
   
  How's the sound sig of the Sansui AU-D11? How different is the "II" version? I see one for sale at a local hifi forum for $930.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





weverb said:


> Just recently received a set of HE-500's last week to use with my 950. Silly question for you experts. How or what did you use to connect your headphones to the speaker tabs in the back? Did you just buy a headphone extension cable and cut it? Just want a quick and inexspensive option to try the HE-500's on. If there is a noticable sound difference, then I would have a better option made up or purchased.


 
   
  What kind of cable is on your HE-500 now?
   
  If it's the stock cable that terminates in a 1/4" TRS plug, you will have to replace the cable before you connect your headphones to any speaker terminals. (Here is the cable included with the HE-6; the 4-pin XLR plug allows you to make adaptors to connect your headphone to other things, like speaker terminals and various kinds of balanced headphone outs)
   
  The HE-500 is pretty efficient anyway -- you don't need the extra grunt that the speaker terminals provide. It might be a fun experiment, but ONLY AFTER you've got your headphones wired up right.


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> What kind of cable is on your HE-500 now?
> 
> If it's the stock cable that terminates in a 1/4" TRS plug, you will have to replace the cable before you connect your headphones to any speaker terminals. (Here is the cable included with the HE-6; the 4-pin XLR plug allows you to make adaptors to connect your headphone to other things, like speaker terminals and various kinds of balanced headphone outs)
> 
> The HE-500 is pretty efficient anyway -- you don't need the extra grunt that the speaker terminals provide. It might be a fun experiment, but ONLY AFTER you've got your headphones wired up right.


 
   
  Thanks for the link. Also found them on epay. Might just go with these:
   
  http://www.btg-audio.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=163149565
   
  Would like to try the HE-500's on my integrated amp. It does not have a hp jack.


----------



## Rossliew

Quote: 





weverb said:


> Thanks for the link. Also found them on epay. Might just go with these:
> 
> http://www.btg-audio.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=163149565
> 
> Would like to try the HE-500's on my integrated amp. It does not have a hp jack.


 
   
  You should not be disappointed


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> You should not be disappointed


 
   
  With the BTG cables? Connected to my integrated? Already love the headphones on the 950's hp jack. Was mentioned that they should sound even better matched with Simaudio gear.


----------



## wotts

I got around to checking the DC offset on the 1250 today. It appears to be very good: 1.9mV Left and 2.6mV Right. I'm guessing that isn't the issue with the hotter heatsink. I'm doing some searching on AK right now. I had a thought about the speakers though - if something is blown, would I definitely hear/notice it? Before I hustle the HPM-100s around, I thought I'd ask. I hate moving them.


----------



## Rossliew

Quote: 





weverb said:


> With the BTG cables? Connected to my integrated? Already love the headphones on the 950's hp jack. Was mentioned that they should sound even better matched with Simaudio gear.


 

 Connected and listening via the speaker taps of your integrated. Have a friend who drives his off a NVA amp. He loves it to death


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





weverb said:


> Would like to try the HE-500's on my integrated amp. It does not have a hp jack.


 
   
  Those look good too.
   
  Make sure the cable's longer than the stock cable, since it's going to be routed behind the unit.


----------



## palmfish

Make sure you start with the volume knob at zero. You will find you have very limited volume control with the 500's off speaker taps. On my Carver, it was two detents from silent to deafening. Thats only about 1/4" of total travel.


----------



## weverb

Here is a response I received from Simaudio about using my integrated to drive the HE-500's:
   
_[size=x-small]I wouldn't recommend to use the outputs of the i5.3 for headphone amplifying purpose. I would rather use a stand-alone headphone amplifier.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]The i5.3 is not equipped with any protection at the output. If something shortens, or creates some capacitive reactance, it will not be tolerated by the amp's DC coupled design. It would rather damage the unit. That is if an accident happens, or if the headphone borrows a poor design.[/size]_
   
_[size=x-small]I hope this will help.[/size]_
   
  Maybe I should listen to their warning and not try, or are they using a canned response to cover themselves in case of damage?


----------



## Chops

I was just thinking, when we moved, I dropped of a very nice Technics SU-8099 back off at my father's house to save some space in our new apartment. More so because the last few times I tried using it, it was producing a lot of very loud static (like pink noise) in the left channel when first turned on, even with the volume turned all the way down. It would go away after a few seconds of being on. A few days after that, both channels would do this, but the noise would not go away. The very last time I powered it up, the speaker output relays wouldn't even trip.
   
  I love this amp and would like to get it working again. A couple questions...
   
  1) What do you all think is the problem with it (shot caps, shot output transistors)?
   
  2) How do you think the HPO of this amp compares to say my Sansui or other receivers mentioned in this massive thread?
   
   
  As you can see, cosmetically, it's in mint shape.


----------



## palmfish

I remember that series from Technics. My father had an integrated amp and tuner from that line. I have no idea about the quality, but my dad did have excellent taste, FWIW.
   
  I just wanted to thank you for the picture - it brought back some memories.


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I remember that series from Technics. My father had an integrated amp and tuner from that line. I have no idea about the quality, but my dad did have excellent taste, FWIW.
> 
> I just wanted to thank you for the picture - it brought back some memories.


 
   
  No doubt it's an excellent amplifier. IIRC, it was their TOTL in 1979. It runs hot which is normal, outputs 115w x 2 @ 8 ohms, and has a "healthy" warmish sound with excellent detail and sound stage, and that's through speakers. I don't recall how it sounded through the HPO since I was a kid back then when my father listened to cans late at night while reading a book or the latest "The Diapason" magazine (it was a pipe organ magazine).
   
  I'm sure this amp uses the speaker amplifier section to power the HPO like all of the receivers mentioned on here. If so, it should really sound good.


----------



## Chops

Bump on post #6319 above?...


----------



## ardgedee

When you have vintage equipment (especially receivers and integrateds), it's a good idea to get an account on audiokarma; there are a lot more people familiar with older equipment and somebody is more likely to know what to do with your system.
   
  Silence doesn't mean you're being ignored - it means that nobody with helpful advice is around. Sorry!


----------



## Chops

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> When you have vintage equipment (especially receivers and integrateds), it's a good idea to get an account on audiokarma; there are a lot more people familiar with older equipment and somebody is more likely to know what to do with your system.
> 
> Silence doesn't mean you're being ignored - it means that nobody with helpful advice is around. Sorry!


 
   
  Actually, I do have an account with AK. Just trying to remember my password without having to reset it. I hate having to do that. LOL
   
  No apologies.


----------



## bexiesbruv

Finally, I think I have all my gear sorted out and connected. From the Top, Sony STR 7065A, Celestion Ditton LS10 bookshelf speakers and Kenwood DP 1510 CD player (looking at replacing this with a Phillips or other player with the 1541A DAC) The, attached to the Kenwood is a HP amp from Gary at Electric Avenues, this gives me a volume control from the Kenwood HP out rather than putting it through the Sony. Sounds better (to me) this way. I have my Sound card speaker out split into two RCA's for the Aux input on the Sony. I think I will get an ODAC to use instead of the PC sound. I just bought an ODAC for my son and it is better sound than the AC97 sound card produces. The Dittons are original that I bought in the UK in the mid/late 80's. The Sony I got together with a Dual turntable and a pair of SAE Speakers for $100.00. The Kenwood I negotiated down to $15.00 at the local Pawn shop. Oh, and the just received Sennheiser HD 598's which I am really enjoying.
  I will be adding an Acoustic Research TT Soon (again, its what I bought in the 80's with the speakers) so I can listen to my Vinyl again, although I am replacing much of the vinyl with FLAC files.
  Anyway, thats my current set up for anyone thats interested
   
  Bex
   
   
  .


----------



## tipo33

I picked up a Pioneer SX-580 at a Goodwill for US$20.  I know it's not an optimal place to look but I was allready there.  It's actually my first amp apart from a CMOY.

   
  It has definatly seen better days,  the vynyl? (i think it's vynyl) on the top is puled up in places and you can see the particleboard.  There are a few nicks and scratches on the face, but I for the price I feel it is OK.  It works and sounds wonderfull though!!  Very warm, rediscovering some classical music right now.


----------



## Skylab

For $20, it's all good if it turns on and makes sound!!! You can get very nice looking woodgrain vinyl veneer at your local home builders store that you can use to fix it up if you decide you want to, or even real wood veneer if you are a little more patient with the process and will spend a little more. The wood veneer that has pressure-sensitive adhesive on the back can be terrific, but you have to have a steady hand, and a very good sharp exacto knife, in order to use it.


----------



## Rossliew

Skylab,
   
  My SX-1280 has been giving some problems with the volume lately..at times, the left channel loses volume/sound and if I'm lucky it comes back on after a few minutes of play. Happens both via the speaker taps and the headphone jack. What could possibly be the issue here? Is it a dirty volume pot and if so, can a liberal dose of deoxit spray help?
   
  Appreciate any help here.
   
  thanks!


----------



## wualta

It could easily be dirt, and in switches as well as the volume pot. In one of these oldsters, the signal has to get through many switch contacts as well as the pots, even if that part of the receiver isn't being used. Check loudness buttons and tape monitor switches as well as the speaker selector. Could be dirty/pitted contacts in the speaker muting relay too.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks, Wualta. So, i should just liberally spray deoxit over the mentioned switches (those that i can see/reach)? Haven't done this before so I need to get the details right before attempting it LOL


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wualta said:


> It could easily be dirt, and in switches as well as the volume pot. In one of these oldsters, the signal has to get through many switch contacts as well as the pots, even if that part of the receiver isn't being used. Check loudness buttons and tape monitor switches as well as the speaker selector. Could be dirty/pitted contacts in the speaker muting relay too.


 
   
  Wualta (who knows much more about this stuff than I do) has it exactly right.  Ross, you really need to unplug the unit, open the top cover, and get into the switches from there.  Spray in the deoxit, and then operate the switch or control fully about 10 times or so.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Thanks, Wualta. So, i should just liberally spray deoxit over the mentioned switches (those that i can see/reach)? Haven't done this before so I need to get the details right before attempting it LOL


 
   
  Read up on the use od Deoxit at this AK thread.  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## Rossliew

Thank you so much for the help & advice, guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Will try to do some investigation over the weekend with more time on my hands.


----------



## AaronR

Mine isn't vintage. Does that really matter as long as I'm integrated?


----------



## Pudu

Newb alert! :atsmile:

Is it wrong (or dangerous) to connect the REC from my tape monitor jacks to another amp - so I can use a single source to feed both receiver and amp? 

Thanks for any guidance.


----------



## Skylab

That's not a problem IF you are feeding the tape out (rec) to an amp that has a volume control, because the tape out is full signal, not attenuated by the receiver's volume control. So you cannot use a power amp that has no volume control. If you are connecting to an integrated amp or receiver, then it will be fine, but you will have two volume controls to deal with.


----------



## Gallade475

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Newb alert!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  i have the same question as you and I was wondering of it would be bad to connect modern sources
  (DVD, PS3, PS2, XBOX) to the tape monitor input?


----------



## Skylab

I connect modern sources to tape inputs all the time, it's no problem.


----------



## Gallade475

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I connect modern sources to tape inputs all the time, it's no problem.


 
  alright, thanks for the info.


----------



## Pudu

skylab said:


> That's not a problem IF you are feeding the tape out (rec) to an amp that has a volume control, because the tape out is full signal, not attenuated by the receiver's volume control. So you cannot use a power amp that has no volume control. If you are connecting to an integrated amp or receiver, then it will be fine, but you will have two volume controls to deal with.




Cheers Skylab,

I'm connecting my pioneer to a Wa2. I tried it the other way round, but that didn't work so well. This way it sounds very good - the volume is a bit higher which means I keep it turned down a slight bit more than otherwise on the woo's volume knob. But it sounds great.

Thanks much for the advice.


----------



## Rawrbington

i tired the tape loop a while back and it seemed to kind of compress the sound out of my wa2.  but i think that was with my beat up pioneer sx 650.  I should try again with my Kenwood 9050 or recapped marantz
  i love the idea of using both my reciever and woo with the same dac.  really can't afford multiple dacs and hate swapping wires all the time.
   
  the option was using the woo as a pre for my receiver.  but then you have to fire up the tubes everytime you want to use the receiver and the FM radio isn't an option.  plus sometimes i turn on the stereo for 10-15 minutes and then turn it off.  5998 tubes are way too expensive for me to be turning off and on all the time


----------



## Pudu

Agreed about the tube worrying! I figure the tubes life span are also considerably shortened by me bending over the woo plugging/unplugging things all the time.

Haven't used it long enough this way to notice any sound compression, but will be on the look out for it now. I do like the set up this way. I felt like I had to crank the volume more than I was comfortable with using the preamp on the woo - and didn't like having dual volume controls. Whereas the Pioneer puts out tons of power and I have only one volume knob per amp to worry about this way. Makes me love my Pioneer even more.


----------



## Dutchi MerenGue

anyone know why my marantz model 30 is smoking out of the unit the second i power it on? i just got it and it looks brand new almost, the elecrolytic capacitors on the power supply have supposedly been switched and the main power amp filters have been replaced to
   
   
  any help?


----------



## Skylab

If its smoking you need to unplug it and take it to a qualified service shop.


----------



## ardgedee

The guy who repaired it will have to prove the quality of his customer support now.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





pudu said:


> Haven't used it long enough this way to notice any sound compression, but will be on the look out for it now. I do like the set up this way.


 
   
  I hooked it up using the tape loop just now.  Might be placebo or conf bias or whatever its called.  It just sounds SLIGHTLY less dynamic.  which is one of the wa2's strong suits i always thought.  Sounds like i loose a tiny bit of detail and space in the lower frequencies as well.  but it could very well all be in my head.
   
  i don't know enough about the circuitry of the marantz 2270 to know what all the tape loop runs through before being spit out.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
No placebo over here in this room. I experienced as much with the Pioneer SX-650 and found things took a small step back in performance, when using my OTL amp looped through the Tape Input/Output. Same result with the much bigger sibling, the SX-D7000.
   
The SX-D7000, however, has a dedicated Preamp Out/Amp In section and is an improvement when using the OTL amp as Pre. I have since extracted a lil' more sweetness by using the SX-D7000 as Pre for the OTL amp. 
   
I don't expect this arrangement to always be the case inside the room. Rather, it speaks to the current pieces I've got now.


----------



## roadcykler

Looking for some help here. I'm in the market for either a new Schiit Asgard or Lyr, but I am also contemplating a few Sansui amps/receivers. A guy in my area is selling a lot of different ones, all in great condition and I'm interested in a few but would like some input on them compared to the Schiit amps. The Sansuis I'm interested in are the 8080db ($325), Eight w/relay output ($225, and Eight Deluxe ($275) and maybe a couple of integrateds like the AU 999 or AU 719.
  My headphones are the HiFiMan HE-500s and my Bottlehead Crack just isn't up to the task so any/all constructive input is welcome. Thanks.


----------



## wotts

I've only heard the Asgard once and never the Lyr. I have a Valhalla and I absolutely love it. However, I have two vintage receivers, Pioneer SX-1250 and Marantz 2265B, and I think they both sound a little better than the Valhalla. I will add I've not heard the HE-500 either. I do have the HE-6 and it sounds very good excellent from the headphone out on either receiver. For the price, they are hard to beat.
   
  If you search this thread for the 8080db, I think there were a few folks who had one. My bet is it would sound pretty good. I'd at least setup an audition for one of the units and take the can and a source along. I did that when I bought the SX-1250.


----------



## wualta

Just a quick note to thank SkyLab and BmWr75 for stepping in and answering the DeoxIT question. I think we can say that as a rule of thumb, it's never a good idea to spray anything, even compressed air, liberally (which I take to mean randomly and in great quantities) around the inside of one of these old receivers. Always precisely target the surfaces you need to clean/protect and use the minimum amount it takes to do the job, then exercise the control in question many times. And maybe it goes without saying that you should always make sure the unit is unplugged, not just turned off, before you stick anything inside. This is especially true if it's your first attempt at this. Safety first.


----------



## Skylab

I have had both a Sansui 9090 and a 9090DB, and both sounded very good with headphones. I'm sure the 8080, if in good working order, would as well. I've not heard any of the others you are looking at.

BTW the Lyr is an excellent headphone amp, to be sure. You should think not just about the sound, but about the whole package. Do ou like the vintage look? Do you have the space for one of these behemoths? Will the FM tuner, phono stage, and speaker drive capability be useful? Etc etc.

I'm still using pretty much exclusively vintage amps/receivers to drive my headphones, and very happy about it, but those systems all also have speakers connected to them.


----------



## weverb

Vintage gear is also good for driving outdoor speakers too. It's great to listen to your tunes while outside for parties or chores.


----------



## Rawrbington

I've got an 8080.  Its a solid unit.  Should power the headphones fine.  But i'd go take a look and take the HE500's with you.  I'd think he would be fine with letting you audition with your haedphones.
   
  and check the AU's also.  Ive only heard the AU919 and AU 717 with speakers and  they are very fast and detailed sounding amps.


----------



## Pudu

rawrbington said:


> I hooked it up using the tape loop just now.  Might be placebo or conf bias or whatever its called.  It just sounds SLIGHTLY less dynamic.  which is one of the wa2's strong suits i always thought.  Sounds like i loose a tiny bit of detail and space in the lower frequencies as well.  but it could very well all be in my head.
> 
> i don't know enough about the circuitry of the marantz 2270 to know what all the tape loop runs through before being spit out.




Yep, after a little critical listening I am forced to concur, something is lost. 

So what's a lad to do? DAC with multiple outputs, multiple DACs? Sigh.


----------



## ardgedee

Get an in-line switchbox. A few options were discussed about a dozen pages upthread. (My unit of choice is the Adcom SLC-505 passive preamp, wired backwards and with the volume and balance bypassed).


----------



## Pudu

(flips pages madly backwards)

Cheers


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I've only heard the Asgard once and never the Lyr. I have a Valhalla and I absolutely love it. However, I have two vintage receivers, Pioneer SX-1250 and Marantz 2265B, and I think they both sound a little better than the Valhalla. I will add I've not heard the HE-500 either. I do have the HE-6 and it sounds very good excellent from the headphone out on either receiver. For the price, they are hard to beat.
> 
> If you search this thread for the 8080db, I think there were a few folks who had one. My bet is it would sound pretty good. I'd at least setup an audition for one of the units and take the can and a source along. I did that when I bought the SX-1250.


 
   
  I have owned a Lyr for the past year.  I have bought no less than 8 sets of tubes for it and have gone through all of that tube-rolling insanity.  I was able to listen to the Asgard, Mjolnir/Gungnir combo and the Valhalla at CanJam this year.  I feel that the Valhalla is the best sounding amp that Schiit makes.  But I agree with you that using a vintage Pioneer or Marantz receiver sounds better than the Valhalla and their other amps.  Another big plus for using a vintage receiver is the addtional inputs, speaker outputs and that they look So Much Cooler than the current crop of headphone amps out there!


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Get an in-line switchbox.


 
  Good suggestion. It's also possible that if the several contacts which the signal in the tape loop traverses were cleaned, this "compression" would go away.


----------



## GSARider

Looking to get a Technics SA600 hopefully, having never hooked one up to my mac before, can you chaps advise as to which cables I will need to get the best sound?

I have an E17 / E09K at present.


----------



## Rawrbington

Got some LCD2's.  And they sound better out of my vintage receivers than my WA2.  I had read that this was probable.  No big deal.  They sound fantastic. 
   
  So I have a question for those of you with experience with a lot of new good heaphone amps.  How much better do they sound than a solid vintage receiver?  Im wondering if it would be worth the time, effort and possible money, to sell my WA2 and move on to something else.  Possibly a WA6SE or Vioelectric, Schiit Lyr or whatever.
   
  As of right now they sound great out of my 2270 and my 8080 and I haven't even tried the KR9050 yet.  But just seem a bit dull out of the WA2.  Perhaps just the lack of voltage at that low z.


----------



## ardgedee

Having heard a few of the popular high-end favorites on head-fi, I don't feel bad at all about the not-quite-as-revered amps I have.
   
  But in terms of non-portable gear, about the only dedicated headphone amp I still find a use for is the Violectric HPA-100, for driving IEMs when I'm at home. Sometimes I'll use it for full-sized cans but on the whole I prefer my receivers.
   
  If the HK 670 had a -20 dB switch like some of the Pioneers and Sansui have, I'd probably not need the Violectric either, or else I'd consign it to my other office.
   
  (Although, frankly, I'm mostly interested in using a 100 WPC amp to drive 108 dB efficient IEMs because the disproportionate scale really amuses me. As if it were possible to fit a Jaguar E Type engine into an MG Midget.)


----------



## Skylab

I thnk it's quite possible that you could find that even very expensive headphone amps won't sound better with the Audeze than your vintage gear does. Audeze and HiFiMan planars are especially good matches with vintage amps and receivers as their purely resistive load isn't phased by the high ish output impedance of most vintage gear, and many vintage amps and receivers have more than enough power for medium to low sensitivity.


----------



## Rawrbington

Skylab what is your favorite amp or amps in your collection with the LCD3?


----------



## Skylab

My favorite is the Leben CS300. The Red Wine Audio "Audeze Edition" and the Burson Soloist are also very good, but nether is really better than the SX-1980 is with the LCD-3. Of course my fully restored 1980 is more expensive than the Soloist...


----------



## Rawrbington

heh yeah.  On top of that a fully restored SX 1980 is pretty rare.  Its not like you can just go order yourself one. 
   
  Im making the rounds with my receivers and so far, not surprising to me, the 2245 is my favorite(its always been my fav of my receivers).  but only having compared it to the 2270 and 8080 thus far.  the kenwood requires serious set up adjustments to get it to fit in my listening area. 
   
  really kicking myself for passing on a 2335B that was on barter town a few weeks back.  Think he was only asking like 400 or 450.  what a gem at that price


----------



## moodyrn

If you mean 2330B, I can definitely vouch for it being an excellent sounding receiver. I sold my 2325 after getting it. As far as the vintage gear I've owned, I would put it ahead of the kenwood kr9600, marantz 2325, sansui au-11000, and pioneer sx-1010. The only thing I've owned that's better is my kenny ka-907. 450 would have been a killer deal.  He could have gotten at least double for that(my 2325 went for 1000.00 on ebay). I'm really sorry you missed out.


----------



## roadcykler

Just picked up this sweet sounding receiver today. The guy I bought it from had probably over 30 different amps and receivers with the majority of them being Sansui. He was lucky enough to be the son on a stereo store owner back in England and has acquired some very nice stuff over the years as well as bought a few from individuals. I was kind of in awe. Also had some very nice sounding Technics speakers that I haven't seen before but I forgot what model he said they were. I was also considering an AU 719 integrated but went with this instead. As a bonus, he's an electronics whiz who works in design and testing for Logitech and has all the stuff needed to test/repair stuff if it needs it.


----------



## wotts

Very nice!!


----------



## Rossliew

Sweet!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed that looks awesome! Congrats.


----------



## moodyrn

Great looking receiver!! I'm sure it sounds as good as it looks. Enjoy!!


----------



## Rawrbington

Great looking 8080DB.  I enjoy my 8080 (non DB).  Solid piece from the 70's and usually can be found for a bargain.  For some reason they fly under the radar much more so then the 9090(db).  Congrats.  Shouldn't have any problems drivning any heaphones (or speakers for that matter) with that gem.
   
  Had a great Christmas Eve with my family.  Blizzard coming in tonight so wont get to travel to see them tomorrow.  We ate and exchanged gifts today instead.  Lots of Brubeck playing at my Sisters house.
   
  My mom got me a Shure M97x cartridge for Christmas.  Not sure how she knew to get that cart.  And she got my brother-in-law the AT95E.  He opened his first and I was like How in the hell did she know to buy that cart?  Then i open mine and almost crapped my pants. 
  I don't know who told her what to get us, but they were on point.  Somebody had to tell her.  A lady my moms age doesn't just get online and order the perfect carts, bang per buck and otherwise for each of our tables without some help.  Love her.
   
  listening to mine now.  The National from my KR 9050.  Sounds great.  noticably better than the vintage M91ED i was using.
  I go back and forth on the Kenny.  With some music and the right speakers or headphones it sounds phenomenal.  Other times it can sound a little dull and dry.  When its playing to its strengths its the best sounding amp I have (barring the WA2 with HD650s), and other times the Marantz 2245 beats it into the ground. 
   
  At least it looks the part at all times though


----------



## frank2908

Just added a new Hitachi Sr804 to my collection. I auditioned an Pioneer sx3700 and a Harman Kardon and I trusted my ears- not the Pioneer hype.
  Since I'm new with vintage receiver, I'm glad with my start. However could you guys help me on the first issue I have: when I first plug my headphones in, at low volume, one channel is muted. I have to turn to a louder volume and back, then both channels works. Also when I listen to low volume or soft songs, sometimes one channel loose signal or mute. I have to turn louder and back to fix ( again).
  I've done some reading, and seems like the fix is to dismantle the volume knob and Deoxit it. But since I'm living in Vietnam and I'm not sure I can buy it ( although I haven't try), Is there any alternative or a common terms that I can use to describe to store keepers what i'm looking for?
  Enjoy Xmas day


----------



## roadcykler

Nice. I like the not so common stuff. I wanted to buy a TOTL Tandberg receiver but it was out of my price range. Quick question for the more knowledgeable. I am trying to attach a power amp to this receiver but don't want to blow stuff up. Here's a crude drawing of the connections. Do I connect across the unused jacks on 1 or disconnect the jumper and connect it between 1 & 2? Thanks.


----------



## wualta

Power off, I'd then yank the jumpers (don't lose 'em!) and connect the L and R channels of the other power amp to the upper and lower (L and R) #2 pre outs of your receiver. Then try to find a manual that will tell you why the receiver has two sets of preamp outputs.


----------



## Silent One

Isn't the manual going to state so the Tandberg could serve as Preamp for two external components?


----------



## wualta

It may very well, but there's a chance it may tell you that, like my Yamaha C-85 preamp, one set has inverted phase to allow turning a stereo amp into a monobloc.


----------



## Silent One

That'd be great flexibility!


----------



## vc1187

Hey guys,
   
  I'm new to the stereo amp world, and even newer to the vintage stereo amp world.  
  I was back at my parents' house and was looking in the attic and found a Sansui AU-517.  Powered it on and plugged in a pair of headphones.  It seems like the sound quality is okay, but sound is going in and out of the channels occasionally with a static sound before it goes out.  
   
  I'd prefer not to read through the entire thread, so if someone has suggestions on what the problem could be, and some quick and easy possible fixes, I'd be all ears.
  Thanks.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





vc1187 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm new to the stereo amp world, and even newer to the vintage stereo amp world.
> I was back at my parents' house and was looking in the attic and found a Sansui AU-517.  Powered it on and plugged in a pair of headphones.  It seems like the sound quality is okay, but sound is going in and out of the channels occasionally with a static sound before it goes out.
> ...


 
   
  Purchase a can of DeOxit and follow the instructions at audiokarma.org.  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005  Cleaning all of the switches and pots will probably take care of most of what you are experiencing with the Sansui.


----------



## TheCameraman

I've got an old Kenwood KA-7002; she's got these beautiful machined knobs and a very clean design. The sound is pretty great, considering the price point in its day, and there's a crapload of inputs. I have some old Nova 8s hooked up to it, but have never really tested out my HD 280s on it (not that it would matter, ha).


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





thecameraman said:


> I've got an old Kenwood KA-7002; she's got these beautiful machined knobs and a very clean design. The sound is pretty great, considering the price point in its day, and there's a crapload of inputs. I have some old Nova 8s hooked up to it, but have never really tested out my HD 280s on it (not that it would matter, ha).


 
  Do you have any pictures of it yet?


----------



## vc1187

So it looks like the speaker terminals aren't affected by the issue I stated above.
   
  I just got my HE-6 today and all I've got to say is... it's PURE joy with the Sansui AU-517's speaker taps.  Outclasses the HE-500 in terms of clarity, and for me, overall enjoyability.
  It's like the best of both worlds in terms of HE-500 and HD800.


----------



## FAC 33

I was trying to take some glamour shots of my 1050. None turned out exactly as I had envisioned, but thought I'd share one here since this thread has been so helpful...


----------



## Skylab

I think that's a GREAT shot!


----------



## tipo33

Likewise,  What settings did you use to take the shot?


----------



## FAC 33

Thanks guys. I was trying to capture that awesome, warm, incandescent glow I love about these beasts. 

tipo33, if you click the picture, I believe the Flickr page should show you the aperture, shutter speed, ISO, focal length, etc. I use a Nikon D3000 and this photo was taken with a 50mm Nikkor lens.


----------



## Skylab

Such wonderful machines 

I suck a photography but here's one of the 1980 my daughter took for me:



And one she took that I like of my SD-1100 scope:


----------



## Rossliew

Beauties, Skylab!


----------



## solserenade

Oooohhhh Yeahhhhhh..... !  Beautiful.


----------



## Lee Harvey

All those switches, buttons and knobs on the1980 would keep me busy for hours seeing what each did. . All three Pioneers look great. I have the itch to try to find a spare 1250 or 1280. But I sold my Lyr this week and I think I will use those extra funds to get a Bifrost.


----------



## FAC 33

skylab said:


> Such wonderful machines
> I suck a photography but here's one of the 1980 my daughter took for me:




Those are great! That 1980 must be a beast in person.


----------



## Skylab

Unless you see one in person, it's hard to fully appreciate just how big, and heavy, the SX-1980 really is. The massive toroidal transformer and four 100v 22,000 mfd main filter caps would stand up to anything Krell ever did.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Oooohhhh Yeahhhhhh..... !  Beautiful.


 
  +2.
   
  Thought we were receiving an invite to a special event for a hot minute!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Unless you see one in person, it's hard to fully appreciate just how big, and heavy, the SX-1980 really is. The massive toroidal transformer and four 100v 22,000 mfd main filter caps would stand up to anything Krell ever did.


 
   
  And those heat sinks too.


----------



## TheCameraman

lee harvey said:


> Do you have any pictures of it yet?




Sure, here's a picture of it before a cleaning and a ****load of Deoxit:


----------



## wualta

Ah, early '70s styling at its best.


----------



## trentino

Oh damn it, I haven't been in this thread for a while. Now I came in and saw Skylabs and others photos of the Pioneer 70s beauties 
  2013 is the year when I will buy one of those! That is a promise.


----------



## Pudu

Bulbs

I need to replace a couple of bulbs on my sx-980. I see dwojo69's name mentioned a lot on AK and I sent him quick email. 

Does anyone have suggestions/tips or thoughts on replacing these - LEDs vs Bulbs etc?

Cheers


----------



## wotts

When I finally get around to fixing my Marantz 2230, I'll be going with the LEDs. Long life and all that.


----------



## Skylab

What bulbs need replacing? The wedge lamps that generally illuminate the dial are easy to replace and LEDs probably would not work well.  The function indicator lamps are much harder to replace, but those definitely can be replaced with LEDs, and I think that's a good idea. I had that done in the 1280 I had restored (I did not do the work myself though, and not sure what LEDs the restorer used - and I have since sold that 1280).


----------



## Pudu

I noticed the dial looked darker than usual so I opened it up and saw two of the three dial lamps were unlit. The line indicators are all fine. I pulled one of the lamp indicators and sent an email to Dave asking about the 8V wedge bulbs and almost immediately he responded with the ones I need (long life 8v/250ma) - very helpful and not at all expensive.

I might consider eventually replacing the function indicator lamps with LEDs at some point. They all work, but seem a little dim (much like their current owner), however that may just be a function of the thickness of the coloured plastic. I don't want to chance making a mess of anything though. When I install the new bulbs I'll have a poke around to see how accessible the indicators are on the 980.

Thanks for the help and input.


----------



## monoethylene

My new headamp..fully restored


----------



## Skylab

Wow, mono, that is SCHWEEEEEET!!!!


----------



## Rawrbington

It looks amazing
  what is it?


----------



## Skylab

I spy the Luxman logo, but that's all I know.


----------



## monoethylene

Its a L-507. Fully recapped and cleaned. The fitting tuner is also restored and this is a T-550. Got the units in bad shape. My next headamp will be this


----------



## Pudu

monoethylene said:


> My new headamp..fully restored




Looks awesome - especially like the glowing doughnut.


----------



## basementdweller

A relative of mine knows that I am interested in stuff like this so when someone was throwing away their old working receiver she took it.  So it cost me nothing.  Have not had the time to pick it up yet, but she did send me a picture which I will post later.  It is a Sansui 3300.  Not a lot of info out there on this particular model.  From my friend google...it was manufactured in 1970, or 1991 depending on the source...and it puts out 26-90 watts per channel.  Also, according to google, it is a stereo receiver, or a quad, or from one source a tape deck.  Checked AK but still not much info.  Anyone here have any ideas?


----------



## basementdweller

Crappy iPhone Pic


----------



## stevensctt

A few new additions:
   
  Marantz 2325
  Marantz 2270
  Sony STR-V7 1978 Vintage


----------



## moodyrn

Great looking gear, especially the marantzs.


----------



## Mr Bowtie

i am looking at buying a Marantz 2220 receiver and was wondering if anybody could weigh in any thoughts on how this receiver would power my Cerwin Vega D1 speakers... currently i am running Imac>USB>Fii0e17>headphone output into a crappy jvc microsystem>D1's
   
  the jvc has 90w output perchannel and as horrible as the concept of using it as a receiver is, with some eqing the speakers sound pretty nice. just looking for a vintage upgrade to cut the jvc out of my mix.
  thanks


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mr bowtie said:


> i am looking at buying a Marantz 2220 receiver and was wondering if anybody could weigh in any thoughts on how this receiver would power my Cerwin Vega D1 speakers... currently i am running Imac>USB>Fii0e17>headphone output into a crappy jvc microsystem>D1's
> 
> the jvc has 90w output perchannel and as horrible as the concept of using it as a receiver is, with some eqing the speakers sound pretty nice. just looking for a vintage upgrade to cut the jvc out of my mix.
> thanks


 
  I owned one and it was OK for a  receiver. The Pioneer SX650 is mus]ch more music]ical IMO but the Marantz is powerful enough to handle full range speakers but the bigger ones would work better with 80-100W receivers IMO.


----------



## basementdweller

Toshiba SA-775, $65, everything is there and seems to function.  It is local.  Balance is off.  Worth a purchase or not?


----------



## basementdweller

So I didn't get the Toshiba, but if someone thinks it is worth it I still might.  I don't think it is going anywhere.  I did pick up the pair of Realistic Optimus 5 for $45 just out of vintage curiousity and the fact that they looked like they are in very good mechanical shape and are supposed to sound okay.  Not turning this into a speaker thread it is just that the new to me SX-650 is sitting on top of them right now while I clean and arrange the room for speakers/receiver(the reason for abysmal placement).  Got the SX-650 and an SX-780 for $260 as a pair.  The 650 has been serviced and cleaned and someone put a new wood case on it, although the stain is too light to be original it does look very nice and I have no plans to change it.  The 780 does work, but I haven't played with it yet.  There are a couple of little places where the veneer is peeling a little at the corners.  Did try the LCD-2 through the headphone out of the 650 listening to FM radio...something I haven't had in the house in a decade excluding an alarm clock.  Have not played with, or even picked up the Sansui 3300 yet but hey it was free.  Here is an over exposed pick of the 650, not trying to get a better picture until the room is arranged and I find my actual camera:


----------



## Mr Bowtie

anddddddddd...? what were you wearing when you took this thesis level photo essay?


----------



## shipsupt

Chill out Bowtie.


----------



## solserenade

Quote: 





basementdweller said:


> Nice Pioneer! I like the 650 a lot, for both speakers and headphone use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

I really liked the 650 too.
  The headphone out was surprisingly good i thought
  and that one is in much better shape than mine is


----------



## sunseeker888

The Pioneer SX650 utilizes thick-film-hybrid output devices. They are early integrated circuits, the Sanken SP-40W. These outputs contain the final stage as well as the bias stage.
   
  Do not run 4 ohm speaker loads with an sx650 if you're heavy-handed with the tone controls/loudness, or of you've got something atop the unit.
   
  That being said, I owned no less than 3 of these, and they're a definite 'sweet-spot' in the pioneer sx-x50 line!
  During my tenure with the 650 as my main stereo, I ran Celestion speakers and sennheiser HD555 cans off it.  very nice sonic presentation IMO.
  I recently had a mint-with-manuals-and-warranty-card Pioneer SX-1280 taken away from me in the hurricane. I couldn't care less, though since despite it's beauty and power meters and high output, it lacked finesse in the 'nth-degree' . It was more of a brute, and nothing like an sx-1250 in terms of sonics.
  Hell of a fun unit though!
   
  Favorites of mine in the vintage SS arena include:
  Sansui 4000 receiver, 45wpc
  Sansui 3000A receiver (watch out for hack mods and unrestored ones since they can set a woofer VC on fire) 48wpc
  Kenwood KA-8100 integrated amplifier 75wpc
  Fisher 500T receiver ~40wpc early silicon and germanium
  Akai AM-2800 integrated 80wpc
  Yamaha CR-2020 receiver 125wpc
  Luxman R-1070 receiver 70wpc (Lux gear exudes quality, even to this day with their current offerings)


----------



## GenpattonJames

How about this:
  I have a pair of Hitachi HMA-7500 Mosfet Amps I use to power my subs in my home theater system and on a lark one day over Christmas I took one of the amps, plugged it into the output of my DAC and plugged in my audeze LCD-2 headphones into the headphone out of one of those amps. I was pleasantly surprised! That amp is 1978 vintage! I wondered afterwards if they were running the headphone directly tapped from the outputs as the volume was pretty good!


----------



## sunseeker888

most vintage integrateds and receivers run their headphone output directly off the final stage of the speaker amps via dropdown resistors. This configuration can supply a vast amount of power. However, as with most things, there is a drawback. Depending on your headphones, the output impedance may not be totally synergistic with your can. For instance, many headphone outs on vintage gear measure from 40 ohms nominal all the way to 150 ohms nominal.
  Damping of the driver is less critical with headphones than with speakers(arguably, since there is less surface area and no crossover) but it is less than ideal to run, for instance, a 32 ohm can off of a 100 ohm jack.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Sunseeker888, Sorry to hear that you took damage from Sandy.  If I lost a mint SX-1280 I would probably be crying.  Hope things work out for you.


----------



## sunseeker888

Thanks, we are back home now but there is still a lot of work to do. Believe it or not, the 1280 was among the least valuable of the electronics I lost. I can't even think about what went down. Hindsight....


----------



## basementdweller

Thanks for the replies.  I really am enjoying the sx650.  In fact I haven't even really tried the 780 yet and that was the one that I went to buy.  Judging by the many internal pictures on various forums, I also suspect that the 650 was recapped at some point, but I can't be sure until I open it up and I am too busy actually using it to bother.


----------



## niten

How are marantz 2285(b) and like receiver prices nowadays?
  Have they come down from their lofty $600-$900 price tags?
   
  A peek onto eBay didn't turn up much.


----------



## Rawrbington

You could maybe find one on craigslist for cheap.
   
  I htink i remember a really nice one selling in about a day over at AK's Barter Town for about 450.


----------



## Skylab

It depends so heavily on condition. Prices on both the 2285 and 2285b range from $350 on the low to over $1K if restored, has wood case, etc etc.


----------



## wotts

I just saw a 2285 for $500 in a 'local' (about an hour from me) CL ad. It seemed to be in good shape. They are out there, but I've been watching for one for quite some time. Of course I can't go get it now, ha!


----------



## niten

True, condition is almost everything when it comes to the pricing of these things.
I have also been keeping half an eye on ebay/craigslist since late summer, but haven't had anything catch my eye as a deal.

If one turns up ~$550 or lower I would certainly give it some serious consideration. A little diy fix-up job (nothing too extreme) could also prove rather fun.
I wonder how easy it would be to recreate one of those wooden enclosures you see on the vintage Marantz receivers.

Well, in the end just got to be patient and hope that the opportunity presents itself at the right time.


----------



## sunseeker888

Personally I'd never pay anything near 1k for a Superscope Marantz made in Japan. The true Marantzi are the tube units which justify that kind of coin. I did however, spend many happy hours listening through a 2250B...It was a great piece but then again i got it for free on the curb and fixed it up. Man I miss those days. (2001-2008 were such solid years for finding goldenage equipment on the curbs of NYC)


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





niten said:


> True, condition is almost everything when it comes to the pricing of these things.
> I have also been keeping half an eye on ebay/craigslist since late summer, but haven't had anything catch my eye as a deal.
> 
> If one turns up ~$550 or lower I would certainly give it some serious consideration. A little diy fix-up job (nothing too extreme) could also prove rather fun.
> ...


 
   
   
  This cat http://mcintoshcabinets.com/  does replacements. He's got pricing and such listed on the site.


----------



## tipo33

I have a chance to buy a Marantz 2245 for $250.  To fund this I would have to sell my pioneer SX-580.  I have read a lot of praise for the Marantz 22xx recievers, but mostly the 2230, and 2252b. Is this a good deal, and worthwile upgrade?  Does anyone have any opinions on the 2245 specificaly?  Thank you.


----------



## Rawrbington

The 2245 is my favorite receiver.
   
  ill be more specific.
  Ive had a few marantz.  5 i believe.
  Ive heard a few more including the 2252B.
  Haven't heard a 2230 but have owned the 1060 which is very similar to the 2230.  I think its the same thing minus the AM/FM section.
   
  The 2245 is my favorite.
  I'd sell my 2270 before i'd sell my 2245.
   
  i prefer the 45 with headphones over all the others i've listed.
  I prefer it with speakers too.
  However this can be due to them all having hundreds of variables inside of them, being the electrolytic caps.
   
  Currently i've got a sansui, a kenwood, 2 yamahas, and a pioneer.
  I'd sell all before i'd sell the 2245.
   
  But again, it depends.
  Maybe i scored a 2245 that had just somehow managed to stay in good shape(although i did recap the power supply board).
  Or maybe all my other stuff hasn't aged as well.
  i just cant say.
   
  250$ isn't too bad for  the marantz if it has no issues.  200 would be better.
  For me personally
  i'd pay 250  for a super clean  100% working 2245.
  others may call me crazy


----------



## tipo33

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> The 2245 is my favorite receiver.


 
  Thats a great start!  Do you think it's worth US$250?  It has a few lights out, but I plan to replace them, it has a couple of small scuffs, and no WC-22.


----------



## Rawrbington

who is the seller?
  random craigslist person?
   
  Where are the scuffs?
  How is the lettering?
   
  any bent corners?
   
  also i added a bit more info in my previous post.
  I'd want the opportunity to check all the inputs and make sure they all work properly.
  And i'd try to get them down a little bit just because.


----------



## tipo33

It's on a popular auction site (don't buy it before I get a chance  )
The lettering is great, as is the metal face. There are some nicks on the sides and top.
The description states fully functional.
It just stood out because all the other Marantz recievers are very expensive from what I've seen.
I've allways wanted to hear a 22xx.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah
  i dunno about that one.
  I trust pretty much nobody on ebay.
  And this guy is probably some storage locker buyer or something.  Pawn shop owner.  who knows.
  The description screams i don't know anything about these things.
   
  So you could get it and it could be great,
  or you could get it and have nothing but problems.
  And then either be stuck with it or stuck finding a tech to fix it for upwards of 250$
   
  if you're close to a major metro area i'd start with that cities craigslist.
   
  also it could be the lighting but it looks like there could possibly be damage or a bent top left corner of the faceplate.
   
  Im just lucky enough to leave withing 30 miles of a serious marantz collector.
  But he seems to be slowly raising his prices when he lets them go.


----------



## tipo33

I'm not lucky enough for that sadly  I have had pretty good experiences with ebay. And if I don't take the gamble someone else will. I think I'm gonna go for it. I will keep you updated. Thank you for the info, wish me luck.


----------



## tipo33

Double post  sorry


----------



## Rawrbington

Good luck.
  It'll probably be fine.
  And you can always return it no matter what the buyer says if there is something that he conveniently left out.
  I'd run down to radio shack or order a can of Deoxit while you're waiting on it to show up.
  You'll likely need it at some point


----------



## tipo33

I have Deoxit for the SX-580. I'm sure it will be fine...


----------



## SpeakerBox

I did recently find that I can also get Deoxit at my local guitar center.  Convenient if you need some quick.


----------



## FOX1201

My Harman/Kardon 630 Twin Powered. Puts out a great warm sound... Now I just need to manage to get the front lights to work


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I did recently find that I can also get Deoxit at my local guitar center.  Convenient if you need some quick.


 
   
  Hey that's good news. How do their prices compare to Radio Shack's?


----------



## ardgedee

Hi, MAC! How'd you get here?
   


   
  Soundin' pretty good right now. Miiiighty fine.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Hi, MAC! How'd you get here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Oooooo! That _is_ mighty fine!


----------



## Skylab

Sure is! Nice looking Mac!


----------



## Silent One

Indeed!


----------



## 99-1

hi every body i have recently got an "sansui 331 stereo receiver" and
 i love it`s sound
 i khow it has been repaired...
 but the question is :
*can i use it`s radio for 8-10 hours every day?i`m afraid to harm it....*
 i would be thankful to know about any other point ...


----------



## SpeakerBox

My Radio Shack does not seem to have Deoxit - so not sure.  I can't say the GS prices were real cheap - maybe just around the average.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





99-1 said:


> hi every body i have recently got an "sansui 331 stereo receiver" and
> i love it`s sound
> i khow it has been repaired...
> but the question is :
> ...


 
  on the weekends my 2245 plays all day long.  sometimes its on for upwards of 16 hours


----------



## tipo33

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> on the weekends my 2245 plays all day long.  sometimes its on for upwards of 16 hours


 
  I use my Pioneer SX-580 for a solid 6 hours a day.  Twelve to sixteen on the weekends.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Hi, MAC! How'd you get here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats Art! That Mac is a beauty!!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Hi, MAC! How'd you get here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Just spectacular!


----------



## ardgedee

Thanks!

It compares very well to the Harmon/Kardon HK670 that was my main receiver, well, up until this came in the house. Even more resolving, but without any sense of grit or over-sharpening; mostly subtle but very welcome improvements. I had the opportunity to try it before buying it, and while I was half-afraid that it would exhibit some of the overly warm and smooth characteristics I've previously heard in McIntosh amps, this was nothing like that.

Probably not coincidentally it looks little like stereotypical McIntosh equipment. My Heathkit receiver, with its black glass panel and blue-green lights, looks more like a Mac than the Mac does. Heh.

Right now the left channel is occasionally fizzing and dropping. Since a couple of the pots are a little noisy too, I'll strip it down and spray DeOxit on things before starting to worry. The previous owner took excellent care of it and it's in fantastic shape, so I'm going to assume that any problems are the natural consequence of age and the insidiousness of household dust.

The MAC 4100 is also much more susceptible to household static than my other equipment is (headphones crackle when I roll my office chair); will running a wire from the amp's chassis to ground on the power outlet take care of that?


----------



## Rossliew

Hey guys,
   
  Need a quick advice - I am currently looking at several different models of Sansui amps available for sale with the hopes of scoring one amongst them. The models are the AU-717, AU-9500 & AU-9900.
   
  As far as I know, the AU-717 and 9900 has not been serviced although the current owners tell me they are good and will last many more years. The 9500 has been serviced and recapped whilst the 9900 is claimed to have been given a once over by a specialist and signed off as not requiring any servicing. He also says the biases have been checked and are within factory specifications.
   
  Which should I get with the caveat being I'll listen primarily through the headphone jack (with a Senn HD555 and possibly a newer model down the road - HD600/HD650) with metal being the prefered genre and I don't want the worry of something breaking down soon after purchasing it. Price is not an issue here.
   
  Appreciate any and all advice, please!
   
  Cheers


----------



## moodyrn

I would go for the 9500 since its been serviced and recapped. The 9500 is also the warmest of the ones you have listed. But also keep in mind that depending on the caps used, it may or may not sound like an original either. But something that's serviced and recapped would be the safest bet for me. Those all are very good sounding amps though.


----------



## 99-1

thanks so i use it ... here is some picture
   
  http://uploadtak.com/images/m9226_IMAG0663.jpg
   
  http://uploadtak.com/images/w7673_IMAG0661.jpg


----------



## sunseeker888

Regarding the Sansui 331 being used 24-7 or close to it--
  In my collection I have a Sansui 771 stereo solid state rcvr that looks like it was hit by a truck. No dial lamps work, the balance shaft is busted off, and most knobs are gone.
  It plays wonderfully, if not a few MHz off on the fm scale--easily remedied by tuning the local oscillator slug.
  These Sansui are very robust units.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the advice, moodyrn!


----------



## Rawrbington

Went to my buddies shop with my 2245. 3rd time he and I have put her under the knife. This time phono board restoration/upgrade. Nichicon and Panasonic electrolytics, diode replacement and fresh matched pair transistors. Fixed the left channel static/distortion and sounds sooooo good!
The feeling upon powering them up after doing the work is awesome.
You don't know whether you've fixed it or broken it further. You hope you haven't installed a cap backwards and are greeted with fireworks. Turn it on, relay engages, no smoke or fire, select phono, drop the needle.... Sweet music.


----------



## wualta

I _love_ that feeling.


----------



## monoethylene

Another headamp  
   
  Exclusively for my SM3v2..


----------



## monoethylene




----------



## ardgedee

That's a lot of iron for such a little thing. What model is it? Does it come with a -20 dB mute switch?


----------



## monoethylene

Denon PMA-850 with -20dB Muting and a -10dB Direct Couple..
   
  Sounds good straight from the SL-10


----------



## BmWr75

This is for sale local to me.  SANSUI AU-20000
   
  http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ele/3574851144.html


----------



## Skylab

I would buy that for the asking price in two seconds flat if it were near me!!!!


----------



## ardgedee

That would be worth phoning in a sick day and taking a roadtrip for.


----------



## Pudu

That is an impressive looking beast! Love the honeycomb heat sinks.


----------



## Silent One

I'd catch a Cab 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 to the seller's house from the Airport...leaving the Carry-on luggage behind!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd catch a Cab
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm guessing it weighs considerably over 40 lbs, so you couldn't carry it on board with you, even though it could fit in a carry-on bag.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  To clarify a bit, the amp wouldn't be carry-on on the flight home. Rather, leaving behind what I came with suggests the speed in which I bolted the plane; airport,_ to catch that Cab...and get my grubby lil' hands on the amp._


----------



## calipilot227

@Silent One: Put your money where your mouth is! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Only joking of course. You've got a nice SX-D7000 as it is (I'm mad jealous, by the way)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> @Silent One: Put your money where your mouth is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I could use a few extra dollars to spend at Trader Joe's - _might push baby brother (SX-650) out the door. _


----------



## Vidmaven

So I have a coworker who was in the Navy stationed in Guam during the Vietnam war and he has some vintage equipment he bought while there that he wants to sell me. One of which is a Sansui 3300 Quad receiver that he just took out of service last year (all original never serviced) as well as a pair of Kenwood KL555D speakers. Looks like the Sansui is a rather rare piece as they were only sold overseas at Navy Exchange Stores (he told me that's where he bought his). I am hoping you guys can give me an idea of what it's worth as it's kind of hard to find any info on the web about this particular model.


----------



## 99-1

hi i have found the "s*ansui stereo receiver 331 service manual"
  let me know if anyone wants to have it
  by theway yesterday i visited some clips about sansui on youtube and i love all of them!!!


----------



## Strangelove424

I am not a vintage Marantz owner, but a have a modern Denon receiver, and could not find a Denon-specific thread. I was wondering if there are any modern Denon receiver owners here (or places elsewhere on Head-Fi) where I might be lucky enough to find an owner who can test the voltage on the headphone output? I am trying to calculate output impedance, that's why I ask. Thanks for any help.


----------



## caracara08

can anyone tell me if the Marantz 4430 is better than the 2270?  I am a bit confused regarding quadradial.    I will be using it with bookshelf speakers, phono, hd650.  thanks


----------



## Skylab

Unless you happen to own a bunch of Quad recordings (which I highly doubt), the 2270 is the better choice.


----------



## caracara08

Thank you sir.  As always, you're the best.
   
  edit:  Lost out on the 2270.  Decided to go lower budget and went with a 2226b as my first vintage receiver.


----------



## monoethylene




----------



## wualta

Oo, what is that sleek black beauty?


----------



## monoethylene

Sui AU 7700


----------



## wualta

Gotta love that bank of tone controls. Very nice.


----------



## Rossliew

Out of curiosity, how many of you vintage lovers get your equipment serviced upon purchasing it? Or do you wait till something goes wrong first and doing it up all at one go?


----------



## Skylab

My personal modus operandi is to either buy it serviced/restored, or to have that done after buying, if it ends up being something I want to keep.  Almost all the vintage gear I currently own has been cleaned/lubed/adjusted at a bare minimum, but most of it has been completely restored including a complete "recap" (replacement of all electrolytic capacitors with new, up to spec, and better ones).


----------



## monoethylene

I restore all my vintage gear by own. It makes a lot of fun


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you vintage lovers get your equipment serviced upon purchasing it? Or do you wait till something goes wrong first and doing it up all at one go?


 
   
  Of my two tubed integrateds, both were serviced by the same guy. He sold me one of them (well, the charitable org he volunteered for sold it; he tuned it up on their behalf before the sale). The other one I purchased elsewhere and brought to him for service before I turned it on.
   
  Of my solid state receivers, they all arrived in working order, aside from the usual dusty pots and switches. I strongly suspect they will benefit from recapping (at least) and tuneup, but I'm taking my time with that, since they sound fine enough now. The oldest has the most accessible boards and everything is clearly labeled, so I might do that myself once I feel confident enough with my soldering skills. The other, higher-powered ones I'm going to leave to an expert once I find one locally.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the feedback. The one reason I'm very, very cautious about buying vintage gear is the fear that I will be needing major service on them and not being able to find the proper parts for the servicing/repairs/replacements. Got a Sansui AU-317 I'm looking at buying which is priced pretty competitively. Any feedback on this amp? Of course, it shall be used to drive headphones exclusively (Senn HD555 and W3k Anv).


----------



## BmWr75

I replace all the electrolytic capacitors in my 1950-1960s vintage tube stuff, no exceptions.  This has not been done completely for all the 1970s vintage solid state stuff I own, but I wish it had been for long term reliability.
   
  Just replaced the multi-cap can in a Fisher KM-60 tuner this morning.  It was the only capacitor the previous owner didn't replace.


----------



## Rossliew

So, basically, would it suffice to just replace the caps and leave everything else untouched? (assuming the gear was in working order before any servicing was done).


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The one reason I'm very, very cautious about buying vintage gear is the fear that I will be needing major service on them and not being able to find the proper parts for the servicing/repairs/replacements. Got a Sansui AU-317 I'm looking at buying which is priced pretty competitively. Any feedback on this amp? Of course, it shall be used to drive headphones exclusively (Senn HD555 and W3k Anv).


 
   
  No matter how good-looking the equipment is, if it's old you should have some budget set aside to get them serviced (or time and parts, if you're doing it yourself). Parts like capacitors will decay with age and need replacement after a couple decades, regardless of how well-kept the receiver is. Odds are pretty good that if the receiver is going cheap, nothing inside it has been replaced recently.


----------



## Pudu

I took my 980 in to get recapped, a transformer replaced, and the pots/jacks cleaned (there had been a tiny buzzing that was audible independent of volume). I was in the middle of a move at the time and didn't have the time (nor skill, knowledge, patience, talent) to even attempt it myself. The guy took forever (three weeks past promised) and I picked it up the evening before the movers packed up all our belongings. On the other hand he charged almost nothing and it sounds fantastic. And after recap it cost less than a Schiit Valhalla. 

Using it right now with D7Ks - some Barenaked Ladies & Crash Test Dummies (had dinner with a bunch of other Canadians here in Delhi last night and it made me dig up some old favourites). Delicious toe tapping sound.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, refurbishing these vintage receivers is huge fun!
   
  I have been doing this with some of the lower powered Sherwood (7100A/7110) and Marantz (2220B/2215B) as a hobby.  The sound improvement after a good cleaning,dexoit on the pots, and a full electrolytic recap is stunning.  The biggest improvement I have seen is on the Sherwood 7100A.  Before: dark and lacking detail and punch.  After: very detailed with excellent imaging and base definition.  It is really a blast!  I have found that using WBT Silver Solder during the recap also adds some significant improvements.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> So, basically, would it suffice to just replace the caps and leave everything else untouched? (assuming the gear was in working order before any servicing was done).


 
   
  Actually this subject is discussed in many ways. Some like to recap the whole unit. Me too . The other part says that only broken caps and problematic transistors have to be replaced. You may replace the caps in the signalpath and the power supply..


----------



## Skylab

And there are two schools of thought here.  One is, if you are buying vintage gear really cheap, then clean it up with deoxit yourself, use it until it goes bad, and then toss it.  The other is, if you are buying nicer vintage stuff, it's worth getting it serviced/restored.  
   
  For example, in my bedroom I have a little Pioneer SX-680.  I bought it for $50.  I'm not recapping that.  It works fine, and the bedroom system is purely for background music.  When it croaks, I will toss it.
   
  My SX-1980, on the other hand...complete top to bottom restore, and it will very likely last another 30 years!


----------



## runswithaliens

A local shop keeper here has a ton of audio gear from the 50s-70s - none of it refurbished, and most of it having one thing or another needing repair he says. However he has a pair of Marantz 2230's in storage that he is going to get out for  me to check out. He believes they only suffer from burned out light bulbs. My plan is to take some headphones and a MP3 player as source to test the basic functionality is working. He also has speakers there that I can hook up to check that part of the amps' output.
   
  In addition to the good things I've read about the Marantz 2230, I am specifically interested in it because it has the Preamp outputs so that I can take the jumpers out and run them directly to my JBL powered monitors. 
   
  However, I am guessing that taking the preamp jumpers off would then disable the headphone output?  If so, does anyone see any objections to just getting a pair of RCA splitters and sending one signal to the speakers, and the other half looping back to the Marantz so that the Headphones still work?


----------



## Rossliew

Skylab, should i restore my SX-1280?. It sounds good as it is but with more sensitive cans, the hissing is pretty apparent and that is quite a turn off. I also notice loss of sound on the left channel when playing back with the turntable. It doesn't happen when i use the CD player though. Any thoughts on the cause? With other amps connected to the TT, there is no loss of sound in any channel. This has left me very perplexed..


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Skylab, should i restore my SX-1280?. It sounds good as it is but with more sensitive cans, the hissing is pretty apparent and that is quite a turn off. I also notice loss of sound on the left channel when playing back with the turntable. It doesn't happen when i use the CD player though. Any thoughts on the cause? With other amps connected to the TT, there is no loss of sound in any channel. This has left me very perplexed..


 
   
  Have you been in there really good with deoxit? Those source selector buttons need regular cleaning.  Even my restored 1980 occasionally has to have it, or I will get a lower output on one channel on Phono 1 unless I work the selector in and out a few times.  It's purely an issue with the source selector buttons.  In your case it could be something worse, but that's the place to start.
   
  That said, the SX-1280 is a killer piece and absolutely worth doing a full recap-restore on.


----------



## Vaughn

Sony TA-4650 on it's way to me! VFets and HE500s, I'm expecting nirvana


----------



## Rossliew

Well noted, Skylab. No, have not really had the chance to deoxit the amp. I think I will just send it to someone with more experience in such things to do the once over and refurbish it to tip top condition. But I have to mention i linked the TT via an external phono stage so it's not the Pioneer's phono input that i used.
   
  Also have another Kenwood KA-5500 - this one worth the same effort?


----------



## Skylab

The SX-1280 has a very good phono stage - have you tried it? I suggest to. You might be surprised.  Was just spinning some vinyl this morning via my SX-1980.  It's phono section is absolutely superb.  Remember that back then vinyl ruled the day!


----------



## caracara08

skylab said:


> The SX-1280 has a very good phono stage - have you tried it? I suggest to. You might be surprised.  Was just spinning some vinyl this morning via my SX-1980.  It's phono section is absolutely superb.  Remember that back then vinyl ruled the day!




Would that hold true to the lower end Marantz 2226b pre?


----------



## Skylab

I can't say about that model, but it is likely that the phono section is at least decent.  Will be better than any entry level phono preamp on today's market for sure, unless its malfunctioning. The phono section in my Marantz 2285 is terrific.


----------



## wualta

Vaughn: good on you, mate. Just don't expect greatness from the phono stage. Well, or from the whole preamp section. As a side note, it was recently discovered that the phono stage actually has low-power VFETs in it.


----------



## Vaughn

I won't be using the phono stage, but I will be using the preamp section. I suppose I could bypass the preamp section by connecting my DAC via the amp input on the back since it has variable output. 
   
  I got lucky on this one, it has had the problematic diodes replaced and been tweaked and trimmed by Echowars. He did the work about 6 years ago. I may go through and do a recap since it is in excellent condition. Most likely I'll just do a spot check on the DC offset and put it into service.


----------



## niten

Interesting to hear everyone's take on restoration of some of these vintage receivers.
  Personally, anything short of recapping would probably be something I would venture to do as a little pet project on weekends.
   
  If people don't mind sharing, how much does a full restore including recapping range?
  Do people consider a full restore to include woodwork/cabinets?
   
  I understand that this would vary according to different circumstances, but any input towards vintage marantz would be enlightening.


----------



## Skylab

It depends heavily on what piece of gear, as well as who is doing the work, of course.  The range can be a few hundred dollars for a complete recap/restore to about $1K to do my SX-1980 including the main filter caps (the four big filter caps in the 1980 cost $240 by themselves!).


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





niten said:


> Interesting to hear everyone's take on restoration of some of these vintage receivers.
> Personally, anything short of recapping would probably be something I would venture to do as a little pet project on weekends.
> 
> If people don't mind sharing, how much does a full restore including recapping range?
> ...


 
  As I mentioned previously.  I have been working some of the lower power units, so a recap is in the $20 to $30 dollar range (not sure what cost would be if I paid to have it done).  In addition to that I will clean all the controls with Deoxit (although there are some old Sherwoods that don't like Deoxit - it will damage the on/off switch that is part of the volume control.  I usually clean all the connections (in/out) with denatured alcohol (it leaves no residue).  I always check for bad solder joints too.  When found (they usually have cracked ringlets around them) I remove all the old solder and re-do the connection - in addition I always re-solder all board to board connections too.  WBT solder is my favorite solder - a little pricey - but easy to work with and seems to add detail to the sound.  I also like to clean the glass inside and out for a pristine look.  The lower powered Marantz units (doing a 2220B right now) might cost more like $40 to do yourself with good caps.


----------



## Rossliew

skylab said:


> The SX-1280 has a very good phono stage - have you tried it? I suggest to. You might be surprised.  Was just spinning some vinyl this morning via my SX-1980.  It's phono section is absolutely superb.  Remember that back then vinyl ruled the day!




So, I can just plug in the tt direct into its phono inputs and play from there?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> So, I can just plug in the tt direct into its phono inputs and play from there?


 
   
  Yep


----------



## Skylab

You can and you should! The only thing that won't work is if you have a low output moving coil cartridge.  But if you have a MM or high output MC, then connect that TT right to Phono 1 and prepare to be impressed


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





vaughn said:


> I won't be using the phono stage, but I will be using the preamp section. I suppose I could bypass the preamp section by connecting my DAC via the amp input on the back since it has variable output.


 
  If EchoWars breathed on it, it may be okay. All I can tell you is that this was my amp+preamp for the latter half of the '70s and when I got my humble Hafler DH-101 preamp the difference was so dramatic it won a daytime Emmy.
   
  The switching on the 4650's preamp is very handy, so if you can get the preamp to sound more wide-awake by judicious parts upgrades, let us know. If you can get away with not using it, well, remember the Law of Analog: the fewer active stages between source and speaker, the lower the likelihood that degradation will occur; ie, simpler is better. This is especially true if the parts quality is not top notch.
   
  One little preamp quirk I recall is that when-- if-- recording off the TAPE outputs, the MONO switch still works, which I don't think is mentioned in the manual. Messed up several old tapes I still have, but handy for recording mono LPs.


----------



## niten

speakerbox said:


> As I mentioned previously.  I have been working some of the lower power units, so a recap is in the $20 to $30 dollar range (not sure what cost would be if I paid to have it done).  In addition to that I will clean all the controls with Deoxit (although there are some old Sherwoods that don't like Deoxit - it will damage the on/off switch that is part of the volume control.  I usually clean all the connections (in/out) with denatured alcohol (it leaves no residue).  I always check for bad solder joints too.  When found (they usually have cracked ringlets around them) I remove all the old solder and re-do the connection - in addition I always re-solder all board to board connections too.  WBT solder is my favorite solder - a little pricey - but easy to work with and seems to add detail to the sound.  I also like to clean the glass inside and out for a pristine look.  The lower powered Marantz units (doing a 2220B right now) might cost more like $40 to do yourself with good caps.




Thanks, that was a helpful bit of info.


----------



## Rossliew

Ok but it won't work as I'm using a low output MC cartridge. Well, thanks for the tip anyway


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> I'm using a low output MC cartridge.


 
  Which one?


----------



## Rossliew

Clearaudio Concept MC cart. On an el cheapo Pro-ject tt. Honestly can't tell the diff between MM and MC carts LOL


----------



## Skylab

You could at some point decide to use a step-up transformer between the TT and the SX-1280's phono input instead of the additional phono stage.  What is your external phono stage?


----------



## Lee Harvey

Wow, this thread has came alive in the past few days.  I have two Pioneer's the SX-780 and the SX-1080.  I have gone through with DeOxit on both of them.  Both of them sound wonderful at this time.  But as Skylab said earlier depending what you have invested in each piece determines what kind of servicing you do to them.  I have a little over $100 into the SX-780.  I don't plan on spending anymore money on it.  If something happens to it, I will sell it off as a "parts only" unit and get a little money back on it.  On the other hand the SX-1080 has no noise issues and all lights and functions work.  But I was checking the DC offset on it last week and the Left channel was setting at 21mV and the Right channel was at 71mV.  This unit appears to be all original.  I made the decision to spend money and have this unit serviced and re-capped.  I found a local Pioneer Service center that has been in business for over 40 years and used to sell these units back in the 70's.  All the techs at this place have been there since then.  The newest person there is the Service Manager and he has been there since 1985.  I took the SX-1080 in to them yesterday and they quoted that it will be 4 to 5 weeks until its ready and at least $300 to $400 to bring it back to spec.  They will call me if its looking to be over $400 to service it.  I like that they were upfront with me on what it was going to take to make this unit back to new like condition.  They had several vintage Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, Nakamichi units setting there for sale that had been re-done.  I have been out auditioning new speakers for my 2-channel rig for the past two weekends and I also listened to the Rega Brio-R integrated amp in case the SX-1080 is going to cost more than than I think its worth.  Now the Rega is a well regarded integrated amp but the SX-1080 in its current condition still sounds better. It has more midrange resolution and weight than the Rega.  I hope that the SX-1080 comes back sounding even better.  Also I received "The Wife's" approval for new speakers so I should be setting pretty audio wise in the coming month.


----------



## Rossliew

skylab said:


> You could at some point decide to use a step-up transformer between the TT and the SX-1280's phono input instead of the additional phono stage.  What is your external phono stage?



its a custom made one with various loading and capacitance options. Good stuff.


----------



## Lou Erickson

I've got several vintage Marantz units here, and they've all had as little as possible done to make them work.
   
  I've been quite lucky; deoxit has done wonders and things have worked fine.
   
   
  If they fail, I'll have them fixed.  I have a good local shop to do that work if I need it.
   
  I did sign up for a recap from a guy called "I Rebuild Marantz" who has since been quite heavily panned on another forum.  I'm hoping he'll get to me... eventually.
   
  I've had much more trouble with turntables than I have with the vintage integrated amps.  The vintage TT has been in the shop repeatedly, while Marantz 2220 and 2235 just play and play and play.


----------



## stacker45

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Out of curiosity, how many of you vintage lovers get your equipment serviced upon purchasing it? Or do you wait till something goes wrong first and doing it up all at one go?


 
   
  Since i don't trust myself with a soldering iron, i buy working but not necessarily serviced unit, and hope they don't fail me.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





lou erickson said:


> I did sign up for a recap from a guy called "I Rebuild Marantz" who has since been quite heavily panned on another forum.  I'm hoping he'll get to me... eventually.


 
  I don't know if i'd send it to that guy.
  I'd try Catrafter, you can find him through google, or Echowars or Paul Hovenga at Many Moons Audio
  i've just read too many sketchy things about iRebuildMarantz


----------



## 99-1

Hi, as you know I recently have bought a  s*ansui 331...
  today I planned to buy speaker for my receiver and I saw this "sansui 5500" in the shop
   
  http://uploadtak.com/images/q3912_san5500.jpg
   
  the price was 1000$...
  what is your idea about this price?
  I don't know if the quality  of  this receiver  is as the same of mine or not; I use  its radio most of the time...


----------



## Skylab

That's a QRX-5500, a Quad receiver.  It's not worth more than $200 USD, in my opinion, and even then it should be working perfectly.  $1,000 is not even close to a fair market price.


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's a QRX-5500, a Quad receiver.  It's not worth more than $200 USD, in my opinion, and even then it should be working perfectly.  $1,000 is not even close to a fair market price.


 

  thank u
  so I would buy just the speaker...


----------



## Vaughn

Quote: 





wualta said:


> If you can get away with not using it, well, remember the Law of Analog: the fewer active stages between source and speaker, the lower the likelihood that degradation will occur; ie, simpler is better. This is especially true if the parts quality is not top notch.


 
   
  This is my finding. I am using the DAC (Emotiva XDA-1) directly into a power amp and it works very well. A big improvement over going through the Yamaha C-70 I had previously, which is a fine preamplifier.
   
  I will also be receiving a Harman Kardon HK 730, which I suspect will also be a good performer having owned the 430. One of these will be set up as a headphone only rig (on a cart!).


----------



## Rawrbington

what speakers are they?
  If they are Sansui speakers with a woofer nearly as wide as the cabinet and a bunch of other mid/treble drivers i'd steer clear of those as well unless they are very cheap
   
  the price on that sansui 5500 is way high.  Even if it was NOS its still way high in my opinion.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





vaughn said:


> This is my finding. I am using the DAC (Emotiva XDA-1) directly into a power amp and it works very well. A big improvement over going through the Yamaha C-70 I had previously, which is a fine preamplifier.
> 
> I will also be receiving a Harman Kardon HK 730, which I suspect will also be a good performer having owned the 430. One of these will be set up as a headphone only rig (on a cart!).


 
   
  I agree completely that lessening the number of stages seems to improve the sound.  I think this is why I like some of the lower powered Sherwood and Marantz receivers so much (I also use the analog bypass mode in my NAD M15 when driving my Jeff Roland Model 1's - it is just a pass through with a volume control).  Of course with the aforementioned receivers, I won't be listening at the SPL levels that some of you SX-1250/SX-1980 owners are accustom to.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what speakers are they?
> If they are Sansui speakers with a woofer nearly as wide as the cabinet and a bunch of other mid/treble drivers i'd steer clear of those as well unless they are very cheap
> 
> the price on that sansui 5500 is way high.  Even if it was NOS its still way high in my opinion.


 
   
  Yeah, frankly, anyone who prices that receiver like that would make me very suspicious of any price they had on anything...


----------



## nick n

Quote: 





lou erickson said:


> I've got several vintage Marantz units here, and they've all had as little as possible done to make them work.
> 
> I did sign up for a recap from a guy called "I Rebuild Marantz" who has since been quite heavily panned on another forum.  I'm hoping he'll get to me... eventually.


 

 If you are in need of Marantz repairs do at least contact Jef @ AbraxasAudio, from what I know he used to work for Superscope/Marantz and is an UBER DIY guy nowadays, quite often he has new board replacements on th'bay for the Marantz also.( forget which exact part it was that was not generally up to snuff.. ) really thorough and I would feel safe with his service. My two cents and unaffilitated of course.
   
_*Vaughn*_ good to see you . How are those silver custom T50rp treating you ? Would love an update if you were so inclined in the big thread.


----------



## tipo33

To follow up on my previous post,  I recieved the 2245 in the post and everything works!  All inputs, all outputs - it does need some deoxit love, but I will do that when I get the new lamps for it.  It also needs new feet, and a thorough cleaning, but I knew all these things upon purchase.  I will post a pic when she looks prettier,  it's kinda emberassing right now


----------



## emo72

hey guys, i did a search in this thread for a Marantz SR1000 but it came back negative. so does anyone know about them? i have a chance at one local to me so if someone could help me that would be super.
   
  heres a linky to it.....http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/marantz-vintage-reciever/2612789
   
  this price seems fairly high though, although im sure he expects a fair bit of haggling.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I don't believe these are considered to be "vintage" Marantz receivers and have also read that they are not held in as high regard as the 22xx/23xx series.  That said I have not heard on either - so I could be wrong.


----------



## emo72

yeah, thanks. just done a bit of googling and it doesnt look too good. think i'll give it a miss. im looking for something with a bit more class.


----------



## SpeakerBox

So, I am a life long audiophile who has never had a good pair of headphones (embarrassing isn't it?).  Anyway I am looking for advice from this group as to what you would recommend to use in conjunction with a low power vintage Sherwood 7100A or Marantz 2220B receiver (15 to 20 watts max)?  I don't need to listen at high levels - but would like clean, accurate, and detailed sound.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what speakers are they?
> If they are Sansui speakers with a woofer nearly as wide as the cabinet and a bunch of other mid/treble drivers i'd steer clear of those as well unless they are very cheap
> 
> the price on that sansui 5500 is way high.  Even if it was NOS its still way high in my opinion.


 
  Just a quick quip on the subject of Sansui speakers - I have a Pair of JBL L100's and a pair of Sansui SP5500x speakers that I run with my Kenwood KR-9600. Listening with the same source back to back, I think the Sansui speakers are at least as good, if not a tiny bit better than the L100's (though maybe not aesthetically, haha). The Sansuis are less tune-able, but the default options aren't bad. The Sansuis have a better midrange, and a very good comparable high end, but the L100 has a warmer low range - which can be good or bad depending on the music/input.
  Disclaimer - I haven't gotten any of this equipment serviced, so I couldn't say the differences aren't because of treatment by previous owners.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> So, I am a life long audiophile who has never had a good pair of headphones (embarrassing isn't it?).  Anyway I am looking for advice from this group as to what you would recommend to use in conjunction with a low power vintage Sherwood 7100A or Marantz 2220B receiver (15 to 20 watts max)?  I don't need to listen at high levels - but would like clean, accurate, and detailed sound.  Thanks in advance.


 
   
  There's no way even an HE-6 needs that much power for normal listening levels. I would recommend the Sennheiser HD600 or HD580, as their sound signature aligns closely with your requirements. Haven't heard any of the Hifiman planars, so I can't honestly recommend them.


----------



## pelli

Looking for a little help. There Is a Pioneer sx-636 available near me for $150. It has recently been re capped and has new bulbs. Is it worth it? Thanks y'all. I have been lurking in this thread for a while!


----------



## Skylab

They can be had on eBay for half that price, but if the one your looking at was really fully recapped, then that seems a fair price.  I've never heard a 636, but I did own the top of that line for a while, the SX-1010, and it sounded great.


----------



## pelli

Thanks Skylab!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> There's no way even an HE-6 needs that much power for normal listening levels. I would recommend the Sennheiser HD600 or HD580, as their sound signature aligns closely with your requirements. Haven't heard any of the Hifiman planars, so I can't honestly recommend them.


 
   
  OK, thanks for the advice.  I will check into these.


----------



## scompton

I doubt the HE-6 would be driven well out of the headphone jack.  One really pushed my 65W Realistic STA-2200.  With 15W - 20W, you'd probably have to run them off the speaker taps.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I doubt the HE-6 would be driven well out of the headphone jack.  One really pushed my 65W Realistic STA-2200.  With 15W - 20W, you'd probably have to run them off the speaker taps.


 
   
  +1
   
   
  THe HE-6 sounds great from HP out on either the SX-1250 or the 2265B, but there is quite a bit more power there. With 15-20W, the HE-6 would should sound alright. When I am not using the vintage iron, I use the Aleph 3 and it's 30W into 8ohm.


----------



## GetsugaSSJ

Hey guys, last time I posted I had acquired a Kenwood KA-7100 and gave it thorough clean and deoxit session. I currently use it with my turntable and a pair of HE-500s and overall it sounds pretty good, but I was wondering if it could sound better. I've no real reference for comparison, but I'm sure these heaphones could sound better. This may be a silly question, but would recapping my 7100 result in a better sound? Even with a recap is it holding my headphones back? Would I also benefit from a separate preamp? I'm not sure how good the one on the 7100 is because again, I've nothing to compare it to. If it could benefit, what would be a good alternative from the same era? IE: sansui marantz pioneer etc.
   
  To clarify, there's no audio anomalies using the 7100. The channels are perfectly balanced, and there's no scratchiness when using any of the knobs. If you need more info regarding my system or anything I'll gladly elaborate.


----------



## wualta

Headphones can always sound better. Amps, unless something's wrong, not as much (at least, not without ripping everything out and starting over). Preamps have improved more than amps over the years. The KA-7100, a thoroughly competent mid-'70s amp, has got more than enough power to drive those 'phones, so that's not what's "holding them back". You may simply be suffering the terror of "OMG, _could_ my system sound better?", the audio geek's equivalent of "OMG, is my deodorant still working?" This is a primal fear we all understand.
   
  There are basic things to check before even thinking of plucking out random capacitors. If you haven't done the simple DC offset check, do it real soon. Visually check for bulging electrolytics. Check the bias to the output transistors, which can make a big difference if it's drifted. If this is beyond you, don't touch anything, don't even take the lid off. Take it to a tech and/or start saving up-- it may be time to start "rolling" (we call it "collecting") amps. The 7100 doesn't have pre-outs and main-ins, so a preamp replacement isn't possible.
   
  What you really need is context, comparisons. See if you can borrow or extort a few integrated amps from parents, relatives, friends, even a local used record/audio store.
   
  Horrible thought: Are you confident in the quality of all your upstream components?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





scompton said:


> I doubt the HE-6 would be driven well out of the headphone jack.  One really pushed my 65W Realistic STA-2200.  With 15W - 20W, you'd probably have to run them off the speaker taps.


 
   
  Well - I could always remove the resistors from the HP output.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





getsugassj said:


> Hey guys, last time I posted I had acquired a Kenwood KA-7100 and gave it thorough clean and deoxit session. I currently use it with my turntable and a pair of HE-500s and overall it sounds pretty good, but I was wondering if it could sound better. I've no real reference for comparison, but I'm sure these heaphones could sound better. This may be a silly question, but would recapping my 7100 result in a better sound? Even with a recap is it holding my headphones back? Would I also benefit from a separate preamp? I'm not sure how good the one on the 7100 is because again, I've nothing to compare it to. If it could benefit, what would be a good alternative from the same era? IE: sansui marantz pioneer etc.
> 
> To clarify, there's no audio anomalies using the 7100. The channels are perfectly balanced, and there's no scratchiness when using any of the knobs. If you need more info regarding my system or anything I'll gladly elaborate.


 
   
  Every full recap I have done has produced stunning results (in a good way).  It all comes down to what you want to invest in the unit.  You definitely don't want to use cheap caps.


----------



## bexiesbruv

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> So, I am a life long audiophile who has never had a good pair of headphones (embarrassing isn't it?).  Anyway I am looking for advice from this group as to what you would recommend to use in conjunction with a low power vintage Sherwood 7100A or Marantz 2220B receiver (15 to 20 watts max)?  I don't need to listen at high levels - but would like clean, accurate, and detailed sound.  Thanks in advance.


 
  I am/was in a similar position to you. After much reading and little listening (not much of anything to audition near me) I bought a Sennheiser HD598 and an Audio Technica  ATH A700X. Both go very well with my Various Amps but I decided the HD598 would be my main listening headphone with my Sony STR 7065a.
  I was very pleased with my purchase and my son has the A700X


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





bexiesbruv said:


> I am/was in a similar position to you. After much reading and little listening (not much of anything to audition near me) I bought a Sennheiser HD598 and an Audio Technica  ATH A700X. Both go very well with my Various Amps but I decided the HD598 would be my main listening headphone with my Sony STR 7065a.
> I was very pleased with my purchase and my son has the A700X


 
   
  Fortunately, you have a little more power to work with than I do.  I will check into the HD598 though.


----------



## captouch

speakerbox said:


> Well - I could always remove the resistors from the HP output.




Once you do that, it won't be very usable with other cans. I would recommend using speaker taps since it's easy and reversible,

The only issue I found using speaker taps with vintage receivers and HE-5LE and HE-500 was some amount of low level noise/hiss, probably due to power level and aged components (not sure if these vintage receivers were ever totally silent when new).

The HE-6 is significantly lower sensitivity than what I tried, so I suspect this noise/hiss would be less with HE-6's.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Once you do that, it won't be very usable with other cans. I would recommend using speaker taps since it's easy and reversible,
> 
> The only issue I found using speaker taps with vintage receivers and HE-5LE and HE-500 was some amount of low level noise/hiss, probably due to power level and aged components (not sure if these vintage receivers were ever totally silent when new).
> 
> The HE-6 is significantly lower sensitivity than what I tried, so I suspect this noise/hiss would be less with HE-6's.


 
   
  OK, good to know - although I don't know that I would have multiple sets of cans.  Seems like there may be an engineering solution here somewhere.  Need to do some thinking.


----------



## Rawrbington

if you are into that kind of stuff, you could probably dig in there and replace the resistors, with something of lower value.
  for example If they are 100 ohm resistors, replace them with 50 ohm resistors.  or whatever


----------



## ardgedee

Alternately, if your receiver has two speaker outs, build a resistor network for one of them and use that with your headphones.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Alternately, if your receiver has two speaker outs, build a resistor network for one of them and use that with your headphones.


 
   
  All good ideas.  In any case I will let you all know what I decide to do.  Thanks.


----------



## Vaughn

nick n said:


> _*Vaughn*_ good to see you . How are those silver custom T50rp treating you ? Would love an update if you were so inclined in the big thread.




Didn't end up having much luck with those. I'll post something over in the ortho thread but it will be more of a cautionary tale


----------



## wualta

Wuh-oh. It'll all end in tears, I know it.


----------



## Rossliew

No noise/hiss with HE-6 and use as powerful an amp as you can get your hands on. It will be worth your while.


----------



## niten

Alright, I need some help guys.
About to take the plunge on a 2285B off of a local craigslist, but there is no cabinet.

A little research showed that there is potentially either the 3-sided WC-122 or the 4-sided WC-22. Am i correct in assuming both of these will fit the 22xx series with no problem?
Between the two I find the looks of the WC-22 nicer overall, and as a nice bonus I believe it to be the easier to find of the two.

I also noticed that it is not too hard to find people selling new replicas of these different vintage Marantz cabinets, does anyone have any experience with these?
What would be the price range I should be looking out for a nice condition vintage cabinet and some of these newer replicas?


----------



## Rawrbington

if the price is good on the 2285B i'd snatch it up.
  I've not heard the 2285B but ive heard a few of its siblings, the 2265B and the 2252B.
  LOVE the looks of that group
  worry about the case later
  and i agree the WC22 is better looking than the weird WC122
   
  i think the replicas run 250 ish?
   
  but it doesn't make it sound any better.
   
  just grab the thing before its gone.
   
  im sitting in shame for letting a pair of JBL 4411's slip away from me today.


----------



## Skylab

Both my WC-22's are brand new replicas.  One was $120, one $140.  Both look nice, the one that was $140 is absolutely killer.  Easy to get.  I'd rather have a nice replica cabinet than a beat up original any day.


----------



## niten

rawrbington said:


> if the price is good on the 2285B i'd snatch it up.
> I've not heard the 2285B but ive heard a few of its siblings, the 2265B and the 2252B.
> LOVE the looks of that group
> worry about the case later
> ...







skylab said:


> Both my WC-22's are brand new replicas.  One was $120, one $140.  Both look nice, the one that was $140 is absolutely killer.  Easy to get.  I'd rather have a nice replica cabinet than a beat up original any day.




Thanks for the help you two.
I made up my mind. I contacted the seller and i'm going to go pick-up the Marantz receiver later this weekend (weather permitting).

Skylab, mind sharing where you got the replicas? 

I've only got two leads on replica WC-22s.
I had briefly come across some posts on AudioKarma about someone selling the replicas they made, and then the usual listings on ebay.
The question that comes to mind looking at some of the replica cabinets are the woods they are using. Veneer vs actual wood. 
Though either way I love the look of the walnut w/ most vintage receivers.


----------



## claybum

I believe people are getting their replicas here....
   
  http://mcintoshcabinets.com/pages/marantz.htm
   
  Ahhh, looks like these are vaneer  over plywood.


----------



## Skylab

Niten I will see if I can find their email addresses. 
   
  Claybum I got my Fisher cabinets from mcintoshcabinets.com and they are awesome but they were pricey, like $275.


----------



## niten

claybum said:


> I believe people are getting their replicas here....
> 
> http://mcintoshcabinets.com/pages/marantz.htm
> 
> Ahhh, looks like these are vaneer  over plywood.







skylab said:


> Niten I will see if I can find their email addresses.
> 
> Claybum I got my Fisher cabinets from mcintoshcabinets.com and they are awesome but they were pricey, like $275.




Thanks again for the help.

Claybum, I took a note of the site just in case.
They certainly look very nice, veneer over plywood aside. Though as Skylab points out a little on the pricey side.
The 22xx Marantz cabinet would put me back $260 without vent screen and $275 with the screen in the standard veneers.
I'll certainly consider it when it comes time to decide on a cabinet.

Skylab, appreciate it. 
Feel free to post here or give me a PM if you do manage to find that email.


----------



## caracara08

So my 2226b came in. It's in great overall condition. Couple of the lamps are dim, hasn't been really serviced but otherwise good. Had some issues with static and no sound from the right channel so i opened it up. Tried it again after not really touching anything and it worked. 
Question, theres a bit of distortion at normal listening volume. Guess a cleaning would help that? But the biggest issue (new to vintage gear) is that turning it off and on makes my speakers flex like crazy. I currently have a lepai amp and it doesn't any more but is there a way to not have it mess up my speakers? I turned down the volume all the way but no change.


----------



## Rawrbington

I'd start with deoxit and checking the DC offset and bias.
  Most of the Marantz service manuals can be found on the AKdatabase.
  and those two adjustments aren't too difficult usually


----------



## Skylab

You should clean all the controls with deoxit for sure.
   
  The "flexing" in your speakers is almost surely due to excessive DC offset.  You need a multimeter in order to test and adjust this.  I have done it in a Marantz 2235b and it was very simple, but I do own and know how to use a multimeter.  If you don't have one, you can get them at Radio Shack.
   
  You should NOT try to adjust the bias, IMO.  It is possible to fry your amp if you are not careful with bias adjustment.  And your issue is almost certainly DC offset.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





skylab said:


> You should clean all the controls with deoxit for sure.
> 
> The "flexing" in your speakers is almost surely due to excessive DC offset.  You need a multimeter in order to test and adjust this.  I have done it in a Marantz 2235b and it was very simple, but I do own and know how to use a multimeter.  If you don't have one, you can get them at Radio Shack.
> 
> You should NOT try to adjust the bias, IMO.  It is possible to fry your amp if you are not careful with bias adjustment.  And your issue is almost certainly DC offset.


 
   
  Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I'd start with deoxit and checking the DC offset and bias.
> Most of the Marantz service manuals can be found on the AKdatabase.
> and those two adjustments aren't too difficult usually


 
   
  Thank you Rawr and Skylab, I will buy deoxit now and look up how to do use it and how to change the DC offset.


----------



## Rawrbington

DC offset is measured with a multimeter.
  Source selection set to aux or tape.
  with no source playing.
  volume minimized(turned all the way down).
  measuring in mV(milivolts)
  put one prob in the Left channel + and the other probe in the Left channel -.
  let sit for a few minutes.
   
  look at the meters reading.
   
  Thats your offset for the Left channel
  repeat for the right channel
   
  to me on the Marantz' of that era the bias isn't any harder to actually adjust.  But is harder to measure, and can def cause more damage if you screw it up.
   
  Also be absolutely sure not to mix up the Bias and DC offset trim pots if you do attempt to adjust your DC offset.
   
  oh almost forgot.
  Ideally your DC offset will be below 20 mV.
  the higher the number the worse off it is, sound wise.
   
  and if you are getting negatives it probably just means you have your probes in backwards.  no big deal.  -150 mV is 150 mV just backwards probes.


----------



## Dutchi MerenGue

anyone know what a good price for a pioneer sa 9500 is? i ended up paying just under 450 after shipping for an immaculate unit that the seller claims was kept in storage for 20 years
   
   
  looks almost new, but still cant help feel like i overpayed tho
   
  its a mark 1 if that matters


----------



## caracara08

anyone know of any vintage receiver servicing companies/people in the OC area of california?  I want to see the pricing to clean up my 2226B vs me buying the stuff and doing it myself.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> anyone know of any vintage receiver servicing companies/people in the OC area of california?  I want to see the pricing to clean up my 2226B vs me buying the stuff and doing it myself.


 
   
  Tons of folks if you exercise a bit Goog-fu...Vintage electronics Orange County CA.


----------



## caracara08

I sent an email to etechOC with no response yesterday i think it was. guess ill keep looking.  I was wondering if anyone here used anyone in particular and had any recommendations.


----------



## Pudu

I got my replacement bulbs for sx-980 and it's lovely and glowing again. 

I tried to replace the bulbs without removing the housings, by unscrewing the clear plastic mount and pulling the bulbs out from the front (to save the brittle housing tabs). But I found the bulbs sit too deep and the kind of force needed to pull them seemed like it would break the bulbs. I had to resort to gingerly removing the housings anyway. 

Is there a trick to pulling bulbs from the front?


----------



## dmcs414

Hey guys, I've been shopping around for a vintage receiver and have come across a few that look interesting on my local Craisglist.  Wanted to get some feedback if possible.  They all appear to be in great condition and the owners say work perfectly.
   
  Marantz SR-53, 90Wx2, $50 
  Pioneer SX-626 - 20Wx2, "Asking" $170
  Technics SA 303 40Wx2, "Asking" $150 
  Yamaha CR620 35Wx2 $100
   
  Any of these will be used in a small near-field type bookshelf speaker turntable rig, I should also mention.  Anything worth looking at or haggling over?  I really appreciate the advice.  Sooner the better.


----------



## Skylab

Tell the guy to get real and sell you the SX-626 for $75.  Then you are in business.  A quick look at eBay completed listings will show that to be the fair price.
   
  I'm not at all familiar with the others.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Hey guys, I've been shopping around for a vintage receiver and have come across a few that look interesting on my local Craisglist.  Wanted to get some feedback if possible.  They all appear to be in great condition and the owners say work perfectly.
> 
> Marantz SR-53, 90Wx2, $50
> Pioneer SX-626 - 20Wx2, "Asking" $170
> ...


 
   
  I don'y believe the Marantz SR series are considered to be vintage, or are even that highly regarded.


----------



## ladea

Hey guys, I've tried to read the thread but it's too big. Can you recommend me a vintage amp/receiver to complement my HD650.
I just bought them and I don't have any amp for them, so I was thinking that I can go vintage instead of dedicated.


----------



## captouch

ladea said:


> Hey guys, I've tried to read the thread but it's too big. Can you recommend me a vintage amp/receiver to complement my HD650.
> I just bought them and I don't have any amp for them, so I was thinking that I can go vintage instead of dedicated.




HD650 is on the warm side - you may want a more neutral/clean receiver to avoid overdoing it in the warmth department. 

Yamahas are known for being neutral with their Natural Sound. I have a Yamaha CR-220 (15wpc and plenty of power from headphone output) that I picked up off CL for $35 - you don't have to spend a lot.


----------



## dmcs414

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Tell the guy to get real and sell you the SX-626 for $75.  Then you are in business.  A quick look at eBay completed listings will show that to be the fair price.
> 
> I'm not at all familiar with the others.


 
   
  Skylab your advice is, as ever, invaluable.  I offered $75 and got the guy to come down to $85 which is close enough for me.  Going to pick it up later today.  What kind of speakers should I be looking at to use with this?  Any suggestions?


----------



## sbtruitt

speakerbox said:


> dmcs414 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey guys, I've been shopping around for a vintage receiver and have come across a few that look interesting on my local Craisglist.  Wanted to get some feedback if possible.  They all appear to be in great condition and the owners say work perfectly.
> ...




I'd go for the Yamaha, it's a good reliable receiver with good neutral sound. I've got 2 now and have had at least one Yamaha CR series receiver since the 70's (my daughter actually still has the one I had in college in 74).


----------



## Rawrbington

high efficiency.
   
  if you're in a hurry i'd be all over those Klipsch forte's in Flower Mound.  He's asking 425.  id try to get away with them for 350.  
  they'll be plenty loud on that 20 watt amp.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Skylab your advice is, as ever, invaluable.  I offered $75 and got the guy to come down to $85 which is close enough for me.  Going to pick it up later today.  What kind of speakers should I be looking at to use with this?  Any suggestions?


 
   
  Yup, agree with Rawrbington, some high efficiency speakers would be best, and Klipsch are the king of that.  If your room isn't too large, Pioneer's own HPM series are fairly high efficiency - not Klipsch level, but the HPM-100 at 92.5/dB/1w/1M isn't too shabby.  Stick with the HPM series though if you go Pioneer. Pioneer made some truly craptastic speakers in the 80's and 90's.


----------



## caracara08

Any experience with a pioneer sx 2500? ive been reading some think it's crap others think it's under rated. Bought one on a whim util I could get my Marantz cleaned up.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yup, agree with Rawrbington, some high efficiency speakers would be best, and Klipsch are the king of that.  If your room isn't too large, Pioneer's own HPM series are fairly high efficiency - not Klipsch level, but the HPM-100 at 92.5/dB/1w/1M isn't too shabby.  Stick with the HPM series though if you go Pioneer. Pioneer made some truly craptastic speakers in the 80's and 90's.


 
  I second the hpm-100s. I own both the klipsch forte(II) and a pair of hpm-100s. On paper the 20wpc would scream klipsch, but the vintage line of klipsch doesn't mate well with the pioneers. Klipsch love tubes and and warm solid state amps. That line of sx receivers is warmer than the xx50 and xx80 lines but still closer to neutral than the sansui and Marantz of the world. I use to own the totl in that series(sx1010) and I didn't like it with any of the klipsch I had at the time. I think the hpm-100 would be just efficient enough for that receiver. Now if you had a sansui or Marantz,(and even some kenwoods) I would say go for the klipsch easily. As much as I adore hpms, my fortes are just on another level imo.


----------



## Rawrbington

Probably not fair or accurate but, it's like a sweet early 70s mopar vs a nice toyota supra. I know which I'd rather have however some people might prefer the other.

But yeah, 2 different leagues for sure. I think anyways.


----------



## dmcs414

Gents I greatly appreciate all the advice, but I decided to hold out for a more powerful amp/receiver, though still most definitely vintage.  I know I want something that can and will, with grace and aplomb drive speakers_ just_ like the KEF R-300, which are in fact exactly what I have my eye on above all others.
   
  I'm not sure whether I will eventually add a sub, but once I have my receiver and/or phono pre+amp, plus my stand-mounts in place, I'll decide then.  May also upgrade my TT to a nicer vintage down the road if I find myself unhappy with my odd Philips belt-drive/Ortofon Blue combo I have now.  When I can compare next month with Morbid's much better TT that should help me know where I stand.  
   
  I also know I want to stay vintage for all components except TT cartridge, phono pre-amp (if necessary) and speakers.  That said, suggestions?  Should I be considering vintage speakers that would sound as good or even better than the KEF R-300s?  I was considering the 50th anniversary but it's just too contemporary for me.  I must just look at these gorgeous things in walnut.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Gents I greatly appreciate all the advice, but I decided to hold out for a more powerful amp/receiver, though still most definitely vintage.  I know I want something that can and will, with grace and aplomb drive speakers_ just_ like the KEF R-300, which are in fact exactly what I have my eye on above all others.
> 
> I'm not sure whether I will eventually add a sub, but once I have my receiver and/or phono pre+amp, plus my stand-mounts in place, I'll decide then.  May also upgrade my TT to a nicer vintage down the road if I find myself unhappy with my odd Philips belt-drive/Ortofon Blue combo I have now.  When I can compare next month with Morbid's much better TT that should help me know where I stand.
> 
> I also know I want to stay vintage for all components except TT cartridge, phono pre-amp (if necessary) and speakers.  That said, suggestions?  Should I be considering vintage speakers that would sound as good or even better than the KEF R-300s?  I was considering the 50th anniversary but it's just too contemporary for me.  I must just look at these gorgeous things in walnut.


 
   
  Woo it's been awhile since I last posted something on here.
   
  Vintage speaker vs modern?  It really depends on your budget and what you can find in the vintage market.  I have never heard those KEF before, but I've heard plenty of KEF drivers so they might sound great.  The only advantage of getting vintage speakers is getting "bigger" sound from the bigger drivers and boxes, if you so choose.  As for the most parts, larger floor standing and bookshelves speakers are quite the bargain.  You just have to deal with some of the plain boxy design and the amount of space they take up.  Granted.  I am enamored with my Bozak MB80s for a smaller bookshelves as well as several of my 2.1 (passive sub) set up that I got for around $100.  I know I probably have to spend at least $500+ to get something better new.  And for my bigger speakers, over a grand.  But, I've put a lot of time and effort in restoring these vintage speakers as part of the hobby.
   
  For an amplifier, the new Yamaha AS series looks pretty nice, knobs are a bit cheap but they sound pretty decent.


----------



## moodyrn

Well speaking of speakers, technology have come much farther than amplifier technology. But there are some vintage speakers that will wipe the floor with many modern speakers costing several thousand dollars. But those are few and sometimes can be very hard to find, and many of those either need mods or serious refurbishing. So it's much easier to find gems when it comes to vintage amps/receivers. But I will say I will put my forte IIs up against most speakers I've listened to under 5000.00 and some beyond(actually did it recently).  But I also have replace the tweeter and mid diaphragms with titaniums so take that with a grain of salt.
   
  But I will say this. You could probably score a pair of kg4's(not hard to find) and a decent sansui(really not hard to find) for a grand total of 250.00, and I believe that sound would make you very happy. I do like most of the kef speakers I've listened to though.


----------



## wualta

Me, I'll cheer on any intent to buy coaxial-coincident speakers like the R-300s.


----------



## mythless

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Me, I'll cheer on any intent to buy coaxial-coincident speakers like the R-300s.


 
   
  While I am a fan of a good coaxial myself.  At the price of the R-300, I'd probably be more interested in a nice pair of Focals or PMC.


----------



## wualta

And I'm still waiting for someone to make a _powered_ version of a KEF Uni-Q speaker with an isodynamic tweeter, but I think I'll be waiting a long time. Besides, then you couldn't use your vintage receiver to power it, and what fun is that?


----------



## ladea

captouch said:


> HD650 is on the warm side - you may want a more neutral/clean receiver to avoid overdoing it in the warmth department.
> 
> Yamahas are known for being neutral with their Natural Sound. I have a Yamaha CR-220 (15wpc and plenty of power from headphone output) that I picked up off CL for $35 - you don't have to spend a lot.




What is CL, I didn't find Yamaha CL amps?

I find Yamaha CA 610 Mk1 on ebay. Is it a good model?


----------



## ardgedee

The CL he's referring to is Craig's List.


----------



## Pudu

I think my receiver is p!ssed at me.

Last night I received, unpacked, and placed on top of my receiver a couple of boxes from Violectric. This afternoon I turned on the Pioneer and got a earful of distortion on the left channel. I twiddled the input selectors and the volume pot - no joy. I switched sources and attached a speaker to a left channel tap - distortion still there. I put everything back and twiddled the input selectors some more, adding the balance, loudness, mode, and muting knobs into the action for good measure. Something worked because it sounds fine now. 

Some I'm wondering if it's holding a grudge because I introduced a new couple into the audio circle on Valentine's Day, or whether I'm looking at a Deoxit job sometime very soon. The thing is, I have a little Deoxit Gold - but that isn't the one I need to clean contacts is it? 

I was even singing the Pioneer's praises early today.


----------



## moodyrn

She's probably unhappy that you brought someone new into her house, and the night before Valentines no less.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But in all seriousness, it does sound like it may be time for a little contact cleaning.


----------



## Pudu

I even gave her two shiny, new bulbs less than a week ago. You'd think that would buy me a little sumpthin sumpthin ...


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





pudu said:


> I even gave her two shiny, new bulbs less than a week ago. You'd think that would buy me a little sumpthin sumpthin ...


 
   
  classic "what have you done for me lately". 
   
  I on the other hand will  cut my losses with my 2226b and go with something else.  I have a Pioneer SX2500 coming that I bought because I like the look, but I may end up going with another Pioneer (I've made quite a few impulse purchases lately that arent working out for me).  Until then, I have my PL41 hooked up to my TC-760 to a Lepai T amp, to my speakers.


----------



## wualta

On the subject of vintage Marantz repair in CA, southern CA, has anyone come across Tom Ishimoto's Northridge Electronics in Simi Valley? He used to design some of this stuff; he ought to know a thing or two about repairing it. He's also hadrian333 over at AudioKarma.


----------



## Argybargy

I finally finished restoring my 2270.

 While it sounded pleasant before the upgrades, it had the typical warm Marantz sound with rolled off treble, and also a problem with intermittent static.

 The static was eliminated after replacing the differential pair, outputs and the daisy heatsink transistors.

 All of the electrolytic caps were subbed (mostly with Elna Silmic II), generally following the suggestions of Patfont in the Electrolytic Cap Shootout Thread on AK.  Main filters were Mundorf M-Lytic 10,000uF (bypassed by 2uF Vishay/Sprague PP film caps).

 The following pre-amp, power and amp boards had all of the resistors changed to Vishay/Dale 1% metal films:  p400, p450, p750, p750, p800.
 Film caps (and low value electrolytics) were changed to mostly orange drops and some Panasonic and Vishay (all PP films).
   
  New relay.
 Trimmer resistors were swapped.
 Headphone out dropping resistors changed to low noise wirewounds.

 Main in/Pre out jumpers internally bridged.
 Modern speaker binding posts.  
 New AUX jacks.

 All sixteen lamps changed to LEDs.
 Offset, bias voltage and current set to factory specs.

 300 hours of burn-in later, it now sounds like a totally different receiver.  Before, on a 1 to 10 scale of cold to warm, it rated around 8.  Now, I would say 5.5.  The treble sparkles, much better detail, transparency and bigger soundstage.  The bass is tighter and extends further.

 Possible future upgrades: diodes and transistors on power and amp boards and of course a wooden case.


----------



## caracara08

beautiful.


----------



## BmWr75

Yep, very nice looking receiver.


----------



## sbtruitt

argybargy said:


> I finally finished restoring my 2270.
> 
> 
> While it sounded pleasant before the upgrades, it had the typical warm Marantz sound with rolled off treble, and also a problem with intermittent static.
> ...




That looks really nice and I'm sure sounds a lot better. Changing the old caps definitely improves the high end on these guys. I replaced the lamps in mine with the LEDs as well, they are great replacements.

I've always loved the 22xx Marantz's - they have the 70s vibe for sure.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> I finally finished restoring my 2270.


 
  Great job!! That's pretty much a complete restore job. Nice!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, looks awesome and I bet it sounds great!!!! Nice work.


----------



## Pudu

argybargy said:


> I finally finished restoring my 2270
> ...
> 
> Headphone out dropping resistors changed to low noise wirewounds.
> ...




Wow! That looks great and it sounds like it was quite the project. I'm intrigued by the low noise wire rounds. How'd that work out with regard to floor noise?


----------



## Argybargy

Thanks guys.  I'm still recovering from the solder fumes, haha.
   
  Given all the other changes I can't quantify how much the noise floor dropped from the wire wound dropping resistors.  I've noticed from past projects that there is a noticeable cumulative effect from swapping these resistors AND updating the RCA jacks AND installing a high quality connector between the main in/pre out jacks (I've used a DIY 2 inch long silver plated copper cable in a 3 braid with Neutrik RCA plugs).
  
  It's interesting to think about how all of these changes might combine to form the overall sound.  I think in this case there are 3 main factors:
  The warm(ish) Elna Silmic II caps
  The detail and transparency of 1% metal film resistors
  All of the polypro film caps that open up the sound and extend the treble(?)


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> I finally finished restoring my 2270.
> 
> While it sounded pleasant before the upgrades, it had the typical warm Marantz sound with rolled off treble, and also a problem with intermittent static.
> 
> ...


 
  Beautiful job- I am about to go through this process with a 2230 I just picked up off CL for $75.  It is in beautiful condition (other than the power button needs replacement).  I am looking forward to the process.


----------



## Pudu

argybargy said:


> Thanks guys.  I'm still recovering from the solder fumes, haha.
> 
> Given all the other changes I can't quantify how much the noise floor dropped from the wire wound dropping resistors.  I've noticed from past projects that there is a noticeable cumulative effect from swapping these resistors* AND updating the RCA jacks AND installing a high quality connector between the main in/pre out jacks (I've used a DIY 2 inch long silver plated copper cable in a 3 braid with Neutrik RCA plugs).
> *
> ...




I never considered that before. 


Nice work, I have no doubt it was worth every hour spent.


----------



## calipilot227

Picked this up today, $40 at Salvation Army. One can of DeOxit later, and she's up and running!
(Onkyo TX-2500 mkII)



Sounds great with my HD650s, and inexplicably drives my Magnepans better than my Denon AVR-3805 (160 wpc at 6 ohms)


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Picked this up today, $40 at Salvation Army. One can of DeOxit later, and she's up and running!
> (Onkyo TX-2500 mkII)





> Sounds great with my HD650s, and inexplicably drives my Magnepans better than my Denon AVR-3805 (160 wpc at 6 ohms)


 
  This is awesome.  Great find!


----------



## ardgedee

Current setup...
   

   
  The McIntosh would occasionally drop the left channel when i first got it, though it seems to have healed itself before I got around to opening it up.
   
  Unfortunately, the Heathkit has deteriorated and generates a lot of white noise now. I don't think that one's going to recover on its own.


----------



## nick n

What Heathkit do you have?


----------



## ardgedee

It's the AR-1500. It's an odd beast even when it's well-behaved -- but a good-sounding one.


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey forum, I'd like to take a moment to introduce the newest member of my family - I just finalized the deal.
  Meet my 'new' Pioneer SX-1980!



   
  And he came with friends, a pair of HPM 150's and the original operating manual.
   



   
  This adds another monster receiver to a collection that already has a Kenwood KR-9600.
   



   
  I am the second owner on both receivers.
   
  The Kenwood is a little warm sounding, amazing for radio, but too warm for daily use (movies & tv). The HPM 150's are both missing woofers, which cost $550 to replace for the pair, though Pioneer amazingly still makes them in limited availabilities. 
  I haven't given the SX-1980 a thorough audition yet as the price it was offered to me was too good to pass on whether it worked or not.
  I currently have the Kenwood paired with a pair of JBL L100's and a Pair of Sansuii SP5500x's. The L100's are also very slightly on the warm side of neutral, which makes the warmth excessive on the 9600, but the Sansuii's are very neutral with a slight bias towards the high/midrange - a good pairing with the 9600.
   
  Unfortunately, I only have shelf space for one monster amp, so unlike in a real family, now I have to choose which one I'm keeping. Furthermore, I'm going to have to get rid of one pair of speakers. I only have use for 4 speakers and only took the HPM's since the seller wanted to liquidate the entire SX & HPM set at once.
   
  I'd like to hear what you all think - which receiver goes well with which two pairs of speakers and what should I sell? (and why?)
   
  ###
  I hope the links to the pictures work...


----------



## calipilot227

DO WANT. Keep the Pioneers.


----------



## MrQ

Welcome to team SX1980.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I play mine mine through recapped HPM 100's and HE6's out of the headphone outs.
   
  My next upgrade is to send the 1980 to the USA for a full recap/ restoration at Circle Stereo. The thought of sending it to Texas round trip is giving me the fear.


----------



## claybum

Yes Yes!! Good score. I just hooked up a SX1010 to my HPM 1500. Sounds better than my SX1080. 
   
  I'd give both receivers a whirl with those speakers and see what gives. 
   
  I bet the pioneer wins.


----------



## dmcs414

Hey folks, I have an opportunity to pick up a Sansui AU-717 for $250.  Worth it?  Pass?  Keep in mind I'm looking to power KEF R-300s with whatever vintage receiver I settle on.  Thanks


----------



## Skylab

PhoenixG: best 5th post in head-fi history!!!!!! Nice looking stuff there man, congrats.


----------



## moodyrn

I disagree, 4th best post.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What are the odds of finding two one owner vintage monsters? Lucky you. As a previous owner of the kr9600 and a sx1010, for those speakers, I would chose the 1980 by far. But not to sell the Kenny short, as it is an excellent receiver. During the time of ownership, I had a pair of klipsch cf2, kg4, and (currently) forte II. The Kenny was better with the brightish sounding klipsch(all of them). But I found the pioneer to be better with warmer sounding speakers. It was the same with cans as well as my denons sounded better with the pioneer, but liked the Kenny better with my he6. Both those receivers looks simply stunning.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Yes Yes!! Good score. I just hooked up a SX1010 to my HPM 1500. Sounds better than my SX1080.
> 
> I'd give both receivers a whirl with those speakers and see what gives.
> 
> I bet the pioneer wins.


 
  Congrats on the 1010, it is one great sounding receiver. And may be the best value of the sx monster currently since you can get them about half of what a comparable xx50/80 receiver cost.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah the SX-1250 used to be the best bargain but prices on those have almost doubled in the last 18-24 months.


----------



## moodyrn

Umm, and around the same time this thread got created. Coincidence? The 1250/80 and 1980 has been my most desired receivers, but I refuse to pay 4 figures for one(although I still think they are more than worth it). Every time I come across a deal for 300-500.00, it's gone before I can get my hands on it. But one day!!!!!
   
  My best find to date was a kr-9600. I got it for 25.00, it needed an ic that I later got on ebay for 100.00. It was mint cosmetically, and all of the caps were good. The owner blew out the ic, a few years after getting it and put it on the shelf and never fixed it. I probably shouldn't have never let that one go.


----------



## Rawrbington

How does one just come home with a SX1980?
   
  oh while were talking about HPMs, guess what i ran into yesterday?
   
  yeah a pair of HPM 200's.
  I never knew they existed.  woulda bought em if i didn't fear he wanted an arm and a leg
   
   
  Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


> Hey folks, I have an opportunity to pick up a Sansui AU-717 for $250.  Worth it?  Pass?  Keep in mind I'm looking to power KEF R-300s with whatever vintage receiver I settle on.  Thanks


 
  i like that amp a lot.
  i'd probably pay it
   
  Does it have the handles?


----------



## moodyrn

Oh, somehow I missed that post. Absolutely, I've seen 517's go for much more than that. As a previous owner of a 517 myself,(Wow I keep finding myself using the term previous owner) you can't do much better than that for 250.00. Especially if it's in pristine condition. The built quality of those are top notch as well, and I love the internals of those sansui integrates. They look like high end modern amps on the inside.


----------



## wualta

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> guess what i ran into yesterday?
> 
> yeah a pair of HPM 200's.
> I never knew they existed.  woulda bought em if i didn't fear he wanted an arm and a leg


 
  Aaaaugh! Get 'em! If you can possibly afford 'em and if you have room for 'em, GET 'em! I have HPM-200 tweeter drums sitting on top of my ESS speakers, for inspiration.


----------



## PhoenixG

I feel a little sheepish to say this, but I got the KR-9600 at a yard sale from the original owner's wife when I was in middle school. For $20. And they included the pair of L100's and the JVC HP660 headphones. I just had to haul them off and everything has been gravy. That's what got me started, haha.
  For the SX-1980, I put an ad on Craigslist saying I was looking for one and I got a response almost two months later from the son of the original owner saying he had one in storage that was his dad's, and he didn't need it, or the HPM 150's, or the owner's manual. He accepted my offer of $1200 for the set.
  The Sansui SP 5500X speakers were another craigslist find, $50. Total cost for my setup to date is $1270.


----------



## moodyrn

lol, you deal kills mine. That 1980 was also a killer deal. I use to come across deals like that all the time, but it's been a long time since my last killer deal.


----------



## dmcs414

Not a great shot, but here's the Sansui AU 717 I'd potentially be buying. And yeah it does appear to have the handles. The owner says its in excellent condition and everything works, and Id plan to demo it at the guy's house.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, that's an even better deal. The ones with rack handles are rare, and the handles and rear bumpers alone come up on eBay from time to time for 50-100.00.


----------



## claybum

I'd buy that 717 for $250 providing its in good shape. They usually go for a 100 or so dollars more.


----------



## Skylab

$1,200 for an SX-1980 *and* the HPM-150's? Holy poop. That sort of thing never happens to me!!!!!  That's an awesome deal.
   
  One sort of economical way to go with these pricier receivers is to buy one that isn't working and take a chance that it's something relatively simple, and then have it immediately sent to someone for full restoration.  I did that with my last one.  Bought one on eBay for $1,000 that wasn't working and had him send it directly to Circle Stereo. They did a complete restore/recap including the big filter caps for $800, so now for $1,800 I have a fully restored recapped 1980. Try buying one already restored like that on eBay - $3K easy.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





wualta said:


> Aaaaugh! Get 'em! If you can possibly afford 'em and if you have room for 'em, GET 'em! I have HPM-200 tweeter drums sitting on top of my ESS speakers, for inspiration.


 
   
  Amen!!!!  Rawrbington if you can get those HPM-200's for less than $1,000 and you can afford it, and they work well and look good, you need to do that man.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





			
				Skylab said:
			
		

>





> you need to do that man.


 
   
   
  I love the encouragement.
   
   
   
  And I have to give credit to skylab for pushing me over the edge on my HPM 1500 purchase. So happy I went for it!!!


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





dmcs414 said:


>


 
   
  Nice looking piece! I'd say go for it. You'll have the opportunity to listen first, I assume.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Just curious what the opinion of the Marantz 1060 integrated is here.  There is one about 60 miles from me on CL for $75.  I understand that it is essentially a Marantz 2230 w/o the tuner.  Is it worth $75 plus the gas for a round trip?  Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

I need to place I would like to place a SX-1980 inside my listening room as well...


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys, I'd like a little help. I pulled out a vintage receiver from my attic over the weekend. It's at least 20 years old. The model is a Denon avr-600. For giggles I plugged my hd650's into the headphone jack and sha-bam!! This old amp has an unbelievable headphone stage. I still can't get over it. I've owned $500 amps that didn't sound this good. 
   
  If anyone has experience or knowledge of the avr-600 and could share information I would certainly appreciate. I do have one concern. This amp seems to really pack a punch and I can't get beyond 9:00 on the volume pot, where 9:00 is as loud as I can take it. I find that 8:00 is more comfortable for regular listening. Is it possible that the headphone stage is putting out too much for me hd650? I certainly don't want to damage my 650's.
   
  I plan to put some orthos on the denon soon and won't worry about them as much.
   
  Thanks in advance for any help offered!!
   
  Matt


----------



## Skylab

The AVR-600 appears to be an early Surround Receiver, so maybe early 90's? It's not really what I think of as "vintage", but if it sounds good, that's great! And not to worry, your ears will give out before the HD-650's do


----------



## Pudu

phoenixg said:


> Hey forum, I'd like to take a moment to introduce the newest member of my family - I just finalized the deal.
> Meet my 'new' Pioneer SX-1980!
> 
> 
> Spoiler




What beautiful beast! Nice work on that one. 

Congrats!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Just curious what the opinion of the Marantz 1060 integrated is here.  There is one about 60 miles from me on CL for $75.  I understand that it is essentially a Marantz 2230 w/o the tuner.  Is it worth $75 plus the gas for a round trip?  Thanks!


 
  Many purists over at audio karma seem to prefer the integrates over receiver equivalents. That's one of the reasons separate tuners are so big over there. It was probably one of them who bid over 700.00 for a sansui tu-9900 that I had no use for on ebay. So the 1060 will sound at least as good as the 2230. If I had to guess, probably better since you are removing a lot of components from the signal chain, and the power supply and transformer gets to devote more to the amping side of things. 75.00 isn't bad at all considering some of the prices I've seen 2230's go for.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> If anyone has experience or knowledge of the avr-600 and could share information I would certainly appreciate. I do have one concern. This amp seems to really pack a punch and I can't get beyond 9:00 on the volume pot, where 9:00 is as loud as I can take it. I find that 8:00 is more comfortable for regular listening. Is it possible that the headphone stage is putting out too much for me hd650? I certainly don't want to damage my 650's.


 
   
  Your amp has higher output through the headphone jack than you're used to; there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you're setting the knob at a comfortable listening level rather than where you think the dial marker would look best.
   
  Whether I'm listening to full-sized phones on my he-man receivers, or IEMs on portable amps, I don't think I ever have the volume knob above 9:00. For me, it's simply not necessary.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Many purists over at audio karma seem to prefer the integrates over receiver equivalents. That's one of the reasons separate tuners are so big over there. It was probably one of them who bid over 700.00 for a sansui tu-9900 that I had no use for on ebay. So the 1060 will sound at least as good as the 2230. If I had to guess, probably better since you are removing a lot of components from the signal chain, and the power supply and transformer gets to devote more to the amping side of things. 75.00 isn't bad at all considering some of the prices I've seen 2230's go for.


 
   
  Well - I guess I have to be faster.  Someone beat me to it.  It did see some of the positive statements about it on AK  - sounds like the 1060 is highly regarded.   At least I have a 2230 that is in the process of a full recap to keep me happy for a while.  Thanks for the input.


----------



## dmcs414

One last quick question folks-  before I pull the trigger on this Sansui AU-717, can you guys confirm this would make an adequate receiver and amp for either KEF R-300s or KEF LS50s?  I may or may not choose to add a powered sub down the road, but these are the main 2 speaker pairs I'm considering.  Alternately, I could go all vintage and pick up a pair of KEF Reference Model 101s on my local Craigslist.  The guy is asking $375 for them.  They sure look nice.  Any thoughts on all of the above?  Thx as always,


----------



## Rawrbington

i've heard some ADS L710's driven very loudly without  the AU717 breaking a sweat.  sounded fantastic
  now the L710's arent super inneffecient but aren't exactly klipsch/tannoy either.
  I think the 80-90 watts will be fine for some bookshelves
   
  maybe its cause i've never had super ineffecient speakers, but 80+ watts has always seemed to be plenty for almost any application.  unless your listening room is 60X50 and your speakers are 85 db/1watt


----------



## wualta

Whenever anyone asks a question about "enough power", I always think of the Magneplanar website's response, and I paraphrase: "How effin' loud do you want it?" 
   
  As long as you don't make the amp spend a good bit of its time in severe clipping (adding the powered sub would greatly help here), 80w/ch is perfectly adequate.
   
  If you like it loud, really loud, with most speakers you'll need more power, and keep in mind that to our ears, "loudness" is exponential-- to double the apparent loudness, you need ten times the amp power. Still, it's far easier to destroy a speaker with an underpowered amp that lives in clip than it is to destroy a speaker by overdriving it, although both methods can do a pretty good job.


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> what speakers are they?
> If they are Sansui speakers with a woofer nearly as wide as the cabinet and a bunch of other mid/treble drivers i'd steer clear of those as well unless they are very cheap
> 
> the price on that sansui 5500 is way high.  Even if it was NOS its still way high in my opinion.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, frankly, anyone who prices that receiver like that would make me very suspicious of any price they had on anything...


 
  hi
  yes the price was so high. in the region which I live in, there are only two stores having this type of vintage, So they think that they have the right to determine their own prices!
  For buying the speakers I saw no good choice but just this Sony speaker:
   

   

   
   

   
   
  Its tweeter are damaged, but I am pleased with its voice. I want to dismantle it and make something like this;
   
  www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble%20Homemade%20Hifi_Classic_copy.pdf
   
  What do you think?
   
   
  Several days ago, I cleaned it by opening its front glass:


----------



## niten

Finally picked up the Marantz 2285 receiver (wasn't a 2285B).
Going to open it up and clean it up and replace the lamps when I get the time. Also need to test the phono.
   
  Rather happy with the purchase.
I'll try to get a better shot when all is said and done.


----------



## Skylab

I have a 2285 in my office and LOVE it.  Put LEDs in for the meter and dial lamps.  They are fuse-style so easy to do.  You should check the DC Offset too if you have a multimeter.
   
  I'm driving Spendor LS3/5A speakers with my 2285 and its just amazing.


----------



## niten

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a 2285 in my office and LOVE it.  Put LEDs in for the meter and dial lamps.  They are fuse-style so easy to do.  You should check the DC Offset too if you have a multimeter.
> 
> I'm driving Spendor LS3/5A speakers with my 2285 and its just amazing.


 
  Sounds like a promising receiver if you are giving it such praise.
  I hope to fall in love with it after I have gotten some time with it.
   
  Yep, I noticed some of the lamps are burnt out already so I had been intending to replace them w/ the appropriate LEDs.
  Inside certainly needs some cleaning and some deoxit. Unfortunately, no multimeter so I might have to pick one up (after figuring out how to use it properly).
  Not exactly a DIY person, so anything besides the most easy-to-manage cleaning and fixing would be something I would need to read up on and learn.


----------



## Hi Rez

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i've heard some ADS L710's driven very loudly without  the AU717 breaking a sweat.  sounded fantastic
> now the L710's arent super inneffecient but aren't exactly klipsch/tannoy either.
> I think the 80-90 watts will be fine for some bookshelves
> 
> maybe its cause i've never had super ineffecient speakers, but 80+ watts has always seemed to be plenty for almost any application.  unless your listening room is 60X50 and your speakers are 85 db/1watt


 
  Actually the LS50s are 85 db/1 watt....  The AU-717 was really quite a high end product in it's day, and is a solid 4 ohm rated amp.   It won't have any trouble with the LS50s.  I still own an AU-919,  which for a while after my Levinson died was back in my main system driving KEF Reference 201/2s with out problems, in a very large room.  The difference in power between the two amps isn't really significant.  The Sansui's aren't super transparent amps by todays high end standards, but are still musically quite satisfying.  I still listen to mine regularly in my second system - with vintage Harbeth's.  Definitely give the AU-717 a listen.


----------



## plopplop65

hi just saw your post about the sansui ca 2000 i have just got one my self the 2 outs on the back would i be able to run 4 mono blocks through to bi wire speakers and could use an mc cartridge through one of the phono inputs thanks  Garry


----------



## PhoenixG

http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/ele/3631915617.html
   
  "
[size=1.4em] Pioneer SX-1980 Stereo Receiver - $500 (Flower Mound)"[/size]  Well, I've just gotten one, so it's only fair to point you all to this listing I found. Good luck and I hope it's still there.


----------



## Silent One

What is meant by "Flower mound?" It's been buried...no longer working but available for parts?! 
   
  Update:  The listing by the author is _Down-the-street! (finished)_


----------



## PhoenixG

Dang, I guess people move fast at that price.


----------



## Rawrbington

wow
  and flower mound is only about 2.5 hours from me.
  =(
   
  i bet it was gone within an hour with all the vultures in the DFW area
   
  oh
  And on the HPM 200s
  he sold them to a guy for 800$
  and they are now forsale in Dallas CL for 1600$
  go figure


----------



## Silent One

Had no idea 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Flower Mound was a destination and not a reference. _That thing Flew off the boards!_


----------



## dmcs414

Speaking of the DFW area, this here vulture did in fact nab that Sansui AU-717 on Craigslist for $250 today, from a very pleasant elder gentleman in Garland.  
   
  It's old, and is definitely a little worn around the edges, but it's heavy as hell, and works great, and best of all is now mine!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
   
   

   
  So now to speakers.  I'm considering lugging this beast to Austin next weekend to hear how Morbid's Harbeths sound on it, but I'm still leaning toward KEF personally.  Really struggling to decide if I want to stay vintage with this turntable rig or go for newer speakers.  Advice?  The turntable (for the moment) is a belt-driven Philips AF-887 + Ortofon 2M Blue, but based on how it sounds when the rig's all finished, I may or may not stick with it.  I'm really liking the idea of a Linn as well.


----------



## merkil

Hey guys,

I started a new thread with my question but maybe I should have just posted here. 

I have a chance to buy either a Marantz 2235B or a 1070 and I was wondering if the 2235B is basically the 1070 amp with an added tuner or are the completely different amps? I know there were made around the same time so that has me wondering.

Thanks for all your help

Edit: Is there an advantage of having the tuner removed sound quality wise on these old Marantz?


----------



## wualta

Guys, don't forget to check out the turntable (+cartridge), speaker and vintage audio forums over at AudioKarma. Skylab's there-- you should be too. Sure, we have our share of crazies, but you're already used to that. Come take a look. The two search engines [mostly] work, and you'll probably find someone has already dealt with your question, including the great new-v.-vintage debate.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





merkil said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I started a new thread with my question but maybe I should have just posted here.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I can't speak to the relationship between the 2235B and 1070 - but in a very general sense separates are many times considered to be superior.  Of course this only applies when we have similar baselines with which to make the comparison.  In other words the integrated amplifier would need to have a similar power supply and amplification stages to that of the receiver in question to make sure we are comparing apples to apples.
   
  The main reason for the superiority of the separates is that now the power supply in the integrated amplifier only needs to feed the preamp/amplifier (more power reserve available) and there is better isolation between amplification and tuner (possibly less noise).  This generality does not apply universally though as I would not want to bet that a Marantz 1060/1070 would sound better than a Marantz 2330.


----------



## calipilot227

That Ortofon 2M Blue would sound great on a Rega P3... :veryevil:


----------



## Silent One

Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for looking out for us! Will go there this evening...


----------



## caracara08

anyone recommend an integrated amp (vintage, used or new) in the 150-250 range?  I would like to drive my bookshelf speakers Polk RTi A3 (+ sub) and my HD650.  I was considering the Marantz 1060 but would like more opinions.  I do not have any plans to go to floorstanding any time soon (no space) or changing headphones.


----------



## Skylab

Well, since I like the vintage Pioneer sound, I'd say something like the SA-7500 or 7800, or if you are lucky you might score a SA-9100, 9500, or 9800 for the upper end of your price range, but our have to be very lucky.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, since I like the vintage Pioneer sound, I'd say something like the SA-7500 or 7800, or if you are lucky you might score a SA-9100, 9500, or 9800 for the upper end of your price range, but our have to be very lucky.


 
   
  I'll look into it. I like Pioneers too... would match my TT as well.  As always, your input and time is very much appreciated.


----------



## dmcs414

wualta said:


> Guys, don't forget to check out the turntable (+cartridge), speaker and vintage audio forums over at AudioKarma. Skylab's there-- you should be too. Sure, we have our share of crazies, but you're already used to that. Come take a look. The two search engines [mostly] work, and you'll probably find someone has already dealt with your question, including the great new-v.-vintage debate.




Yup, I've been lurking there quite a bit lately and made my first post last night on this very topic. Actually it was audiokarma that made me think it an OK idea to buy the turntable and amp that I did. And I debated whether it was even appropriate to ask about speakers with my vintage amp /tt right versus an HE-6 or something. Anyhow I certainly appreciate the advice.


----------



## merkil

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I can't speak to the relationship between the 2235B and 1070 - but in a very general sense separates are many times considered to be superior.  Of course this only applies when we have similar baselines with which to make the comparison.  In other words the integrated amplifier would need to have a similar power supply and amplification stages to that of the receiver in question to make sure we are comparing apples to apples.
> 
> The main reason for the superiority of the separates is that now the power supply in the integrated amplifier only needs to feed the preamp/amplifier (more power reserve available) and there is better isolation between amplification and tuner (possibly less noise).  This generality does not apply universally though as I would not want to bet that a Marantz 1060/1070 would sound better than a Marantz 2330.


 
  Thank you very much for the reply. I think both the 2235B and the 1070 are rated exactly the same in terms of power output so I would guess they are very similar or exactly the same.
   
  Has anyone here used a Marantz 1070/2235B or even a 1060 to power some planers? How does these stack up against an Asgard. Im debating selling my Asgard and going completely vintage either by use of the headphone jack or speaker taps. I have have some orthos HE400 but eventually will get HE6s or LCDs. I assume the power will be there but I'm a little skeptic of the clarity to newer headphones amps. I have never heard the Marantz warm sound either so that scares me a little in terms of audiophile quality.


----------



## Rawrbington

I've had a 2235b and a 1060 but never a 1070.
The 2235B was pretty good with headphones and speakers.
The 1060 was great as well, but the two sounded a little different. The 1060 sounded like a 2270 or 2245. It's a slightly thicker warmer sound, while the 2235b was a wee bit leaner sounding, perhaps reigned in a bit in the mid bass area with a little bit more top end crispness.
I never used either with orthos but both had way more than enough power for dynamics, 600 ohm beyers and 300 ohm sennheisers.


----------



## merkil

rawrbington said:


> I've had a 2235b and a 1060 but never a 1070.
> The 2235B was pretty good with headphones and speakers.
> The 1060 was great as well, but the two sounded a little different. The 1060 sounded like a 2270 or 2245. It's a slightly thicker warmer sound, while the 2235b was a wee bit leaner sounding, perhaps reigned in a bit in the mid bass area with a little bit more top end crispness.
> I never used either with orthos but both had way more than enough power for dynamics, 600 ohm beyers and 300 ohm sennheisers.




Ok this is good. I like the fact that the 2235b is leaner with more crispness in the highs. I think the 1070 and 2235b share the same amp section. Have you used Beyers with modern headphone amps? How did the 2235b compare in terms of detail? I mean will entry amps like the Asgard blow vintage in terms of clarity and detail or will something like the 2235b hold its own. I've read the thread and people have been impressed with other vintage receivers but I'm trying to get an opinion on Marantz specifically.


----------



## Rawrbington

my vintage receivers are close to my woo with  the LCD2.
  Theres a difference, but its not huge.
  Mainly soundstage/imaging, dynamics and a little bit of extra detail.
  again these difference aren't big.  
   
  do you plan to ever use speakers?
  price is really the other thing to consider.
   
  if i weren't obsessed with audio, if it weren't an addiction, I would be very happy with my 2245 that ive been slowly recapping, to power both my speakers and headphones.  Its sounded great with everything ive plugged into it, Beyers, Senns, Shures, Audio Technica, Fischer, ect.


----------



## joehalo

My first Vinyl rig


----------



## sbtruitt

^ Love your Yamaha. Is that an 800?


----------



## Fearless1

Nice looking Yamaha.
   
  I just picked up a CR 1020 at a swap meet this weekend, I do not have it in my possession as of yet, my friend is looking over the internals for me even though it was in great shape I still wanted him to check it over.  Why is there two headphone outs on these? And how does it sound with headphones? I read somewhere they where designed to run the Yamaha Otho's, but I can't seem to find much info.
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Nice looking Yamaha.
> 
> I just picked up a CR 1020 at a swap meet this weekend, I do not have it in my possession as of yet, my friend is looking over the internals for me even though it was in great shape I still wanted him to check it over.  Why is there two headphone outs on these? And how does it sound with headphones? I read somewhere they where designed to run the Yamaha Otho's, but I can't seem to find much info.
> 
> ...


 
  I have the baby of that family (CR-220) - even that sounds very good with all the HP's I've tried with it.   Mine only has 1 HP out.  Yours is higher in the line, so you have two.
  One of the 'prettiest' receivers I have - they're quite elegant looking.  Have fun with it!


----------



## sbtruitt

The 1020 is a great receiver. I've got one now and it is my HP amp for my D2000s. I think it sounds great, lots of power and a clean, neutral sound. I sold these back in the70s but never had a pair of their orthos, so I don't really remember how they sounded.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> I have the baby of that family (CR-220) - even that sounds very good with all the HP's I've tried with it.   Mine only has 1 HP out.  Yours is higher in the line, so you have two.
> One of the 'prettiest' receivers I have - they're quite elegant looking.  Have fun with it!


 
  Thanks! I got a good deal on it and it is absolutely gorgeous, I bought it purely on aesthetics, I hope it does not disappoint.(or hum lol)


----------



## ardgedee

Yamaha marked their receivers as being for orthodynamic headphones because Yamaha was manufacturing orthodynamics at the time (the well-renowned/notorious HP-1 and friends). Otherwise they're no more specialized for the purpose than any other receiver is.


----------



## Rawrbington

i do love the looks of the CR x20 and x40 yamahas, as well as the CA's.
  them along with the Kenwood KR's and KA's seem to be the best deals in vintage iron


----------



## wualta

As RGD pointed out, the Yamaha's headphone outputs are not anything special, though I like to imagine they used a "pad"-type resistor network instead of a simple pair of dropping resistors. The Orthodynamics were in fact close to the "standard" (cough) headphone output impedance and in addition were miniature planar-magnetics (like an EMIT or a Magneplanar), and thus just about the easiest kind of headphone to drive, given enough power-- Yamaha had no need to make the CR-820's headphone outs special! It was just a cross-promotion, but it did make people think "Jeez, these things will only work with Yamaha headphones!", so it probably backfired on 'em.
   
  Joehalo, very nice setup, and that turntable looks very interesting indeed. See if you can raise the turntable an inch or two off the Yamaha. Cooling and not-cooking the capacitors and such, y'know.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





wualta said:


> As RGD pointed out, the Yamaha's headphone outputs are not anything special, though I like to imagine they used a "pad"-type resistor network instead of a simple pair of dropping resistors. The Orthodynamics were in fact close to the "standard" (cough) headphone output impedance and in addition were miniature planar-magnetics (like an EMIT or a Magneplanar), and thus just about the easiest kind of headphone to drive, given enough power-- Yamaha had no need to make the CR-820's headphone outs special! It was just a cross-promotion, but it did make people think "Jeez, these things will only work with Yamaha headphones!", so it probably backfired on 'em.
> 
> Joehalo, very nice setup, and that turntable looks very interesting indeed. See if you can raise the turntable an inch or two off the Yamaha. Cooling and not-cooking the capacitors and such, y'know.


 
  Gotcha,  thanks for the info. At first i was thinking it was some kind of balanced out with the dual jacks.


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





99-1 said:


> hi
> yes the price was so high. in the region which I live in, there are only two stores having this type of vintage, So they think that they have the right to determine their own prices!
> For buying the speakers I saw no good choice but just this Sony speaker:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  no idea???


----------



## joehalo

Thanks for the compliments. It is a CR 820 I found it at a thrift-store for 30$. So far I am loving my first taste of vinyl! The turntable is a sansui P-D11 I got from some old lady off craiglist for 20$.


----------



## Fearless1

> deleted, site problems


----------



## pelli

Hey y'all,
   
  I'm looking for some advice.  There is a Luxman 404 available in my neck of the woods really cheap.  I think it is too cheap to pass up even if it is a bust, but do you all have any info on the old Luxmans (mid 80's I believe).  I don't see them discussed much here...
   
  cheers!


----------



## merkil

Just picked up a Yamaha CR-2020. Works really well for headphones. I am very pleased to say the least. Very clear and transparent/detailed sound for that time period compared to Marantz, which is known for a more tube like sound.


----------



## claybum

Nice Yamaha!! I've always wanted to hear one. The vintage knob has some great things to say about the 2020.
   
  http://www.thevintageknob.org/yamaha-CR-2020.html
   
  Happy listening.


----------



## claybum

And.....on monday I pick up a Kenwood KA 907. Hope it sounds as good as everyone says


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey all, I finally got a chance to fully audition the SX-1980 against my KR-9600. The SX-1980 has a lot of static in the tuner, but it goes away once it locks onto a station. However, it is way more sensitive of a tuner. It gets about 25% more stations than the 9600, but can only 'lock' onto about 1/3 of the stations it receives. Also, the volume knob hums whenever I touch it. The two are roughly equal in terms of distortion/clarity, but the 1980 could stand a thorough deoxit job, as it has a ton of static in the input contacts. Hopefully the distortion and high end static from the inputs will go away after the deoxit. I'll keep y'all posted.
   
  I went ahead and saw how it sounded with each pair of speakers. With the Sansui SP5500x speakers, there was the least distortion at low and medium volumes (so it's good to watch movies/tv). The base presence with the L100's was impressive. Music and radio sounded amazing with good imaging in the mid and high frequencies as well, but relatively high distortion at lower volumes is going to relegate them to the kitchen instead of the living room.
  The HPM 150 speakers are still missing woofers. I hooked them up for the first time just to get a sense of how far they need to come. One supertweeter and one tweeter have no sound and infinite impedance across them - major disappointment. All in repair cost will probably be about $650. Worth it?
   
   
   
  Here's a picture of the setup. And yes, my wife was watching 4 Weddings, haha.


----------



## Lee Harvey

I say to spend the bucks to get the SX-1980 sorted out by qualified Pioneer service center.  That hum when you touch the volume control is not a good thing  and is probably a grounding issue within the unit.  I just got my SX-1080 back from a local service center to have it brought back to factory spec.  It had a few parts replaced, all the solder joints redone, switches cleaned and all the settings like DC-offset and tuner calibrated.  Now the tuner signal strength and lock meters operate correctly.  Was the money I paid worth it?  Yes.


----------



## sunseeker888

Regarding the SX-1980.
  I had a one-owner SX-1280 which I lost in hurricane Sandy. i needed to replace the volume attenuator, ACV-163 since it had a buzzing when i touched the knob. and intermittently during operation. Worn tracks in the part. That being said, it was as mint a unit as is possible with original box, manual etc. I went through it and replaced worn parts and dialed it in to spec including the tuner.
  it was not exemplary in any way except for sheer power and build quality. It lacked the refinement I was used to getting with other vintage units after servicing.
   
  YMMV. I miss my amateur NTSC broadcast station more, and it was worth substantially less.


----------



## PhoenixG

Thanks! I think I was unclear. As far as the SX-1980 is concerned, I have every intent of getting it brought up to spec as I can put a lot in to it without getting "upside down" and I'll be thrilled to do it. The HPM 150s are the problem child here as I'm not sure if it's worth fixing them vs. parting them out. You can see that they are somewhat incomplete. I don't know if I want to fix them and audition them for a possible spot in my setup, or just call it a day and sell them before I sink anything into them.


----------



## wualta

Don't forget that the HPM tweeters are piezoelectric and as such are capacitors and will read open circuit (infinite ohms DC), though not infinite _impedance_, which is ohms AC (audio is AC). Use a capacitance meter to test them.


----------



## PhoenixG

Wow, I think you just blew my mind.
  And probably saved me some $$ on a replacement part.
  Thanks!


----------



## Fearless1

I was wondering if anyone can help here? I am looking to replace the lights in a Yamaha CR1020 with some LED lights (I have seen it done on some DIY sites), and was wondering where to buy them at, I cant seem to find them.
   
   
   
  Thank you.


----------



## merkil

fearless1 said:


> I was wondering if anyone can help here? I am looking to replace the lights in a Yamaha CR1020 with some LED lights (I have seen it done on some DIY sites), and was wondering where to buy them at, I cant seem to find them.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.




I believe Mouser Electronics sells led lights. Go to their website, if you know which ones you need you can easily search.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





merkil said:


> I believe Mouser Electronics sells led lights. Go to their website, if you know which ones you need you can easily search.


 
  Thanks!


----------



## monoethylene

Last headphone amp forever..


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Hi Everyone, I am brand new to vintage receivers and equipment but recently picked up a Marantz 2245. It has been amazing and sounds incredible. I noticed something when listening that I am uncertain if it is a cause for concern. A little background first, the Marantz receiver I have is in pretty great condition (about 8.5-9 for some scratches) but has never been serviced. 
   
  When listening to music through my headphones the right channel sound seems to be lower. I had never noticed this much before on my other equipment or headphones. I tested it on 2 different cans and found the result to be similar. I know this question comes up a lot on several threads and usually is a result of paranoia. Due to this I actually asked my girlfriend to put the headphones on while my eyes were closed (either backwards or on the right way) and I was 4/4 when figuring out which side was the "weaker side". We tried this again when plugging my headphones straight into my PC or her phone and I started getting it wrong 0/3. So most likely this is not a malfunction of the headphones.
   
  My question is, has anyone ever experienced their vintage receiver becoming weaker on one side as it get older? Is this a sign of needing some servicing (replacing internal parts, cleaning etc.) or perhaps an even bigger issue? I realize the one I have is probably about 30 years old now. It seems very clean but I haven't seen the insides yet.
   
  If it helps, the volume knob is a little strange too. When on lower levels i can only hear sound coming into the left channel. At about the 10 o' clock and up the right channel kicks in but it is a bit lower still compared to the left IMO. I wonder if this is normal for the volume knob to act like this? 
   
  I would like to hear everyone's input on this. If it turns out I'm just another psychotic, paranoid nut case and this never happens with vintage amps then I apologize ahead of time.  Thanks!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ohnoitztotoro said:


> Hi Everyone, I am brand new to vintage receivers and equipment but recently picked up a Marantz 2245. It has been amazing and sounds incredible. I noticed something when listening that I am uncertain if it is a cause for concern. A little background first, the Marantz receiver I have is in pretty great condition (about 8.5-9 for some scratches) but has never been serviced.
> 
> When listening to music through my headphones the right channel sound seems to be lower. I had never noticed this much before on my other equipment or headphones. I tested it on 2 different cans and found the result to be similar. I know this question comes up a lot on several threads and usually is a result of paranoia. Due to this I actually asked my girlfriend to put the headphones on while my eyes were closed (either backwards or on the right way) and I was 4/4 when figuring out which side was the "weaker side". We tried this again when plugging my headphones straight into my PC or her phone and I started getting it wrong 0/3. So most likely this is not a malfunction of the headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Usually, the process of elimination starts with a good DeoxIT treatment on your volume control.  I would start here:
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Usually, the process of elimination starts with a good DeoxIT treatment on your volume control.  I would start here:
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


 
  Thanks a lot for this. Will start here


----------



## parbaked

Broke out the Pioneer SA-7100 for a vinyl session.
  Sounds good...


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Last headphone amp forever..


 
   
  Holy Crap Mono!!!!!! You landed a BIG BOY! How do you like it??? MOAR PICS PLEASE!


----------



## monoethylene

Actually it is sounding fantastic   
   
   
  I cleaned it a little bit and powered it up. I am second owner right now. Manuals included and a fantastic price..
   
  Pics are here
   
  http://www.abload.de/gallery.php?key=xO6sKzkv
   
  Have to compare it to the 2325.. And I will recap it..


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Last headphone amp forever..
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


 
   
  Dooooooooood!!!! That is awesome. I've kept an eye out for one of these and have yet to see one. Can't wait to see some more pictures!
   
  Congrats!
   
   
  Edit: I found the link for pictures. Nice!


----------



## monoethylene

I ve just tested the T1s. Absolutely no hum. Black background. Really cool!!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


>


 
   
  Ever strap a Saturn V thrust motor to the roof of a BMW?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Ever strap a Saturn V thrust motor to the roof of a BMW?


 
   
   
  I volunteer my Bimmer. Weeeeeeeee!!!
   
   
  I'd really like to give the HE-6 a go on that receiver.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Ever strap a Saturn V thrust motor to the roof of a BMW?


 
   
  No, my Bimmer is a convertible.


----------



## monoethylene

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Ever strap a Saturn V thrust motor to the roof of a BMW?


 
  Noo..this is the first time..


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone can recommend a vintage amp/receiver that can match well with high impedance cans e.g. HD650? My Kenwood KA5500 doesn't seem to synergise well with the 650s but great with low impedance cans.


----------



## merkil

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Anyone can recommend a vintage amp/receiver that can match well with high impedance cans e.g. HD650? My Kenwood KA5500 doesn't seem to synergise well with the 650s but great with low impedance cans.


 
   
  What kind of sound are you after? Yamahas are known for very clean uncoloured sound (some people call them boring) while something like Marantz have a tube like sound (some people say musical)


----------



## Rossliew

Merkil, I'm looking for a full bodied sound with strong bass. I also like the tube sound. Having listened with the HD555, the sound is more fuller with heavier bass presence. But the HD650 sounded thinner in comparison. Just wondering if these vintages don't output sufficient voltage swing?


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Merkil, I'm looking for a full bodied sound with strong bass. I also like the tube sound. Having listened with the HD555, the sound is more fuller with heavier bass presence. But the HD650 sounded thinner in comparison. Just wondering if these vintages don't output sufficient voltage swing?


 
   
  Sansui or Marantz would be my guess.  You don't know any vintage owners or shops where you could try out different models before you buy?


----------



## Rossliew

Not really, it's quite rare in these parts and good models often sold before we get to try em. Speaking of Sansui, how's the au-999? Or would the au-317 be better?


----------



## MusicNutt

I'm looking at buying a Sansui AU-505. Anyone have feelings one way or another?


----------



## merkil

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Merkil, I'm looking for a full bodied sound with strong bass. I also like the tube sound. Having listened with the HD555, the sound is more fuller with heavier bass presence. But the HD650 sounded thinner in comparison. Just wondering if these vintages don't output sufficient voltage swing?


 
  These old 70's receivers have plenty of power and usually produce more wpc then that is stated in the manufactures specs. Do some research on 70s Marantz as I think you will enjoy that sound, a lot of people do. Fully body, tube like, listenable for hours. Look for a local deal and then go audition it with your headphones before you make a final decision. You don't have to buy it but that way you at least tried it out and can look for a good deal elsewhere, unless the deal is already sweet.


----------



## Silent One

Usually, the understated specs leaves us grinning...


----------



## Argybargy

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Anyone can recommend a vintage amp/receiver that can match well with high impedance cans e.g. HD650? My Kenwood KA5500 doesn't seem to synergise well with the 650s but great with low impedance cans.


 
   
  Vintage Harman Kardon twin power receivers have a warm full bodied sound: the 430, 730 and 930 are all good, very under rated and cheap on the bay.
  The HD650 for the short time that I owned it sounded very good on the 730 and three thirty (non twin power model).


----------



## Argybargy

+2 on vintage Marantz, but definitely pricier than HK stuff.  HD650 sounds great from a 2230 or 2270.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> Vintage Harman Kardon twin power receivers have a warm full bodied sound: the 430, 730 and 930 are all good, very under rated and cheap on the bay.
> The HD650 for the short time that I owned it sounded very good on the 730 and three thirty (non twin power model).


 
   
  +1 on HK - I forgot about them, even though I picked up a 730 last year.  Nice receiver and it is very smooth/warm and many people say "tubey".


----------



## merkil

argybargy said:


> Vintage Harman Kardon twin power receivers have a warm full bodied sound: the 430, 730 and 930 are all good, very under rated and cheap on the bay.
> The HD650 for the short time that I owned it sounded very good on the 730 and three thirty (non twin power model).




HK are also nice. Unfortunately where I live they don't come up to often. 



argybargy said:


> +2 on vintage Marantz, but definitely pricier than HK stuff.  HD650 sounds great from a 2230 or 2270.




They are sought after units that's for sure, I think their prices are somewhat inflated right now but you definitely have more choice of units to choose from than other vintage brands. Well at least where I live, there is always a variety of Marantz for sale.


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the feedback all, very grateful for it. Unfortunately, it is difficult sourcing the amps mentioned especially the Marantz ones. More sansui floating around though.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





rossliew said:


> Not really, it's quite rare in these parts and good models often sold before we get to try em. Speaking of Sansui, how's the au-999? Or would the au-317 be better?


 
   
  Sorry, don't have experience with either one of these.  The x17 line does get talked about in a favorable light a lot though.


----------



## Rawrbington

if a marantz 2245 doesn't make the HD650 sound full then I don't know what full sounds like


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> if a marantz 2245 doesn't make the HD650 sound full then I don't know what full sounds like


 
   
  Indeed...given that the HD650 is not a lean sounding headphone and the Marantz 2245 is a warm sounding receiver...


----------



## wualta

Exactly. I'm thinking something's not right somewhere. "High" impedance (we had much higher back in the day) is no problem for one of these amps/receivers if everything (including the headphone) is working as it should. Do a basic check before buying another amp. Start with a DC offset test. Clean the headphone plug-- they can get surprisingly dirty. Clean the headphone jack with contact cleaner on a cotton swab or put some on the headphone plug and work it around.


----------



## Rossliew

Once again, thanks for the advice, will try cleaning the headphone jack first.


----------



## Argybargy

This is a 1969 or 1970 Three Thirty (earlier version).  Before starting the restoration I took a listen and thought there was some potential: the background was quiet and detail retrieval was good (for a vintage receiver).  However, this was by far the warmest and most bass centric receiver I had ever heard – a 9 out of 10 on the bass-o-meter.

 I searched but could not find a schematic for the three thirty and to make matters worse the PCB is not labeled.  This caused a few problems where I had to just guess and wing it. 
   

   
   
  There are some peculiarities to this receiver.  The phono board looks odd with all the components mounted tombstone style, even though the chassis was roomy.  There is no power supply board or tone control board, instead a rat’s nest of resistors and film caps surrounding a few pots.  Soldering in this mess took patience and a steady hand.
   

   

   

 Swapping out the main filter cap, power supply cap and output caps immediately cleaned up the warmth and wooly bass, and returned the treble.  The main filters went from 2200uf to 3900uf and the outputs from 1000uf to 2200uf.
   

   

 The first board to go under the knife were the two amp boards.  A significant change was replacing 14 1uf electrolytics with Vishay polypro film caps (the grey boxy ones in the photo).  Incidentally, the 14 film caps cost about what I paid for the receiver - $40.
 With the amp boards done, I took a listen and was shocked to hear all of the warm wooly bass right back.  It had to be the film caps.  I thought about cutting half of them out and using 1uf Muse BP and 1uf CDE polyester  films which I know are on the brighter side.  Fortunately, I waited a couple days and after 40 hours of burn in, all of the warmth and bloomy bass disappeared.  Wow, this was the most dramatic instance of cap burn-in I’ve ever heard.
   

   


 You can see in the photos the large boxy brown caps.  These are 2uf KBG-MN Russian PIOs bypassing the large electrolytics.  1uf K40Y-9 PIOs are used on the electrolytics on the bottom side.  I had to create a shelf (using leftover Ikea parts) to mount the PIOs over the output caps.
   

   

 Summary of the restoration:
 All resistors changed to mostly Vishay Dale 1% metal film.
 All electrolytic and film caps replaced
 All 10 lamps replaced with LEDs
 Tuner string replaced (soldering mishap)
 PIO bypass caps
 Remount output transistors

 Total cost in parts was about $300.  As a point of comparison, the parts for my Marantz 2270 cost about $400.

 So how does it sound?

 Sublime.
 Warm, mid-centric  with a sparkly treble and airiness that captures the shimmering decay of cymbals.  The bass is organic and rich, but not tight and impactful like a modern SS amp.  I think this sound sig is a mixture of the low noise resistors, all of the polypro film caps, and the big PIOs.
 The LCD-2 and HE500 particularly sound good.  You might not think this little receiver has enough power, but the rated 17wpc is probably too conservative, it’s more likely 25wpc.  I would guess there’s about 2 watts on tap through the headphone out (into the orthos).


----------



## parbaked

Well Done!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Well Done!


 
  Yes, very well done.  I am doing this same thing to a Marantz 2230 right now.  So far the Big caps, the power supply board, and both output boards are done.  Tone board is next.  And yes, the break in can be painful - the 2230 sounds a little harsh right now and in my experience it takes 50 to 100 hours to smooth out.  But it is worth it!


----------



## Skylab

Nice work, ArgyBargy!


----------



## Argybargy

Thanks for the kind words, gents.
   
  It was fun, but frustrating at times; the PCB burns easily and the copper traces lift with just a little nudging.
   
  I definitely prefer working on Marantzes.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> Thanks for the kind words, gents.
> 
> It was fun, but frustrating at times; the PCB burns easily and the copper traces lift with just a little nudging.
> 
> I definitely prefer working on Marantzes.


 
  You are welcome.  A Harmon-Kardon 330A was my first receiver when I was in my teens.  I loved it with my Audio-Analyst speakers - your post has made me want to get another one.  Best regards.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> your post has made me want to get another one.


 
  ...that's already been tuned up


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> ...that's already been tuned up


 
  You have a refurbed 330A?


----------



## parbaked

No, but I'd like one....


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> No, but I'd like one....


 
  If I can find a good one for a reasonable price on Ebay or CL - it may be my next project.


----------



## xd00bx

Anybody have experience with 70's JVC receivers specifically model VR-5551?

http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/219/642.html

A local guy has one in really great condition for $60 and id like to know if it will work with my HE-500 or would it be overkill? 

I love these old receivers they have such a unique sound, so i thought why the hell not... suggestions?


----------



## BigCabDaddy

xd00bx said:


> Anybody have experience with 70's JVC receivers specifically model VR-5551?
> 
> http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/219/642.html
> 
> ...




I can't tell you much other than to say JVC wasn't particular well regarded at the time. That alone wouldn't be enough to turn me off though in that I see many receivers now being touted that were dismissed at the time. The thing that would make me leery of this particular unit is the graphic equalizer. Slide filters don't always age well and purists don't like that many filters in line anyway. I'd want to listen to them if at all possible. Otoh, $60 isn't all that much...


----------



## Rawrbington

i think the bargains in the vintage receiver market is yamaha and lower powered pioneer and marantz stuff. though some people still seem to want too much for the lower powered marantz.
  yam cr 820/1020 or pioneer sx 650/750 or marantz 2230/2235b
  somehting in those ranges.


----------



## parbaked

+1 on low powered Pioneer.
  The headphone output is still really strong.
  22 wpc Pioneer SA-7100


----------



## BigCabDaddy

rawrbington said:


> i think the bargains in the vintage receiver market is yamaha and lower powered pioneer and marantz stuff. though some people still seem to want too much for the lower powered marantz.
> yam cr 820/1020 or pioneer sx 650/750 or marantz 2230/2235b
> somehting in those ranges.




I'm going to have to disagree here unless you select VERY carefully and earlier on in the 70s. Later, many Japanese companies discovered that they could attain fantastic distortion numbers by using massive amounts of negative feedback. Good numbers on paper, but relatively unpleasant sonically. As I recall, Marantz was somewhat late to this party. Harmon Kardon more so (to their detriment in terms of sales from what I heard.) Scott is one that is often a bargain. Dynaco is fantastic. Of course premium companies like McIntosh and Crown and Tandberg had horrible numbers but sounded exquisite... Still do.


----------



## Skylab

Dynaco tube gear was great. Their solid state stuff was awful.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

skylab said:


> Dynaco tube gear was great. Their solid state stuff was awful.




Didn't ever have their solid state stuff... Unless you count Hafler. Hafler stuff served my professional needs very well.


----------



## ardgedee

I have both a Harmon Kardon 670 and McIntosh 4100. I don't use the HK much any more since the McIntosh happened along. The Mac is unquestionably better -- but I've found the difference is more subtle than their reputations (and current prices) imply. Considering the HK 670 is going for around $100, I think it's a bargain for anybody who is more interested in sound than collectibility.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

ardgedee said:


> I have both a Harmon Kardon 670 and McIntosh 4100. I don't use the HK much any more since the McIntosh happened along. The Mac is unquestionably better -- but I've found the difference is more subtle than their reputations (and current prices) imply. Considering the HK 670 is going for around $100, I think it's a bargain for anybody who is more interested in sound than collectibility.




I absolutely loved my HK Citation V gear and would have put it up against Similar Mac gear all day long. Didn't have the sexy blue lights though... Mac and Marantz lights are the best.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

ardgedee said:


> I have both a Harmon Kardon 670 and McIntosh 4100. I don't use the HK much any more since the McIntosh happened along. The Mac is unquestionably better -- but I've found the difference is more subtle than their reputations (and current prices) imply. Considering the HK 670 is going for around $100, I think it's a bargain for anybody who is more interested in sound than collectibility.




I absolutely loved my HK Citation V gear and would have put it up against Similar Mac gear all day long. Didn't have the sexy blue lights though... Mac and Marantz lights are the best.


----------



## Rawrbington

what low powered stuff from pioneer marantz and yamaha have you had issues with?


----------



## ardgedee

bigcabdaddy said:


> I absolutely loved my HK Citation V gear and would have put it up against Similar Mac gear all day long. Didn't have the sexy blue lights though... Mac and Marantz lights are the best.




Heh. The 4100 has no blue lights -- only red and amber LEDs, including the VU meter. It's the least Mac-looking of McIntoshes. The seller had the 1700, 1900, and this one available, and while the 1900 was a flat-out beauty, I liked the sound of the 4100 more.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> i think the bargains in the vintage receiver market is yamaha and lower powered pioneer and marantz stuff. though some people still seem to want too much for the lower powered marantz.
> yam cr 820/1020 or pioneer sx 650/750 or marantz 2230/2235b
> somehting in those ranges.


 
   
  A real sleeper is the Sherwood S-7100A.  I have done many comparisons to the Marantz 2215B, 2220B, and 2230.  IMHO a recapped S-7100A blows away any of the Marantz I listed (recapped or not).  I realize this opinion won't be shared by many - but I do love the old Sherwood gear.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

speakerbox said:


> A real sleeper is the Sherwood S-7100A.  I have done many comparisons to the Marantz 2215B, 2220B, and 2230.  IMHO a recapped S-7100A blows away any of the Marantz I listed (recapped or not).  I realize this opinion won't be shared by many - but I do love the old Sherwood gear.




Sherwood has flown under the radar for as long as I've been around. Excellent value.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Sherwood has flown under the radar for as long as I've been around. Excellent value.


 
   
  I took a chance on an EBAY listing for a S-7100A and S-7300 that had their power cords cut.  I got the pair for $91 (including shipping).  Last night I unpacked them and the S-7100A does not power up and will require some work (I may even use it for parts).  After this I did not have much hope for the Sherwood S-7300, but pulled it out of the box, slapped a PC on it, replace the fuses, and turned it on.  The glorious sound of my FM Jazz station filled the room - it sounds awesome!  All the lights work and the case is in good shape too!  I am now considering keeping the S-7300 and selling my recently recapped 2230.


----------



## BmWr75

I know this is a vintage solid state thread.  But even earlier tube receivers or integrateds with headphone outputs are most excellent.  My Fisher X-101-C sounds amazing with headphones.


----------



## Skylab

Absolutely! I love my Fisher KX-100, which is similar to your X-101C.  It's awesome with headphones.


----------



## parbaked

That's 'cause it's THE Fisher!


----------



## BigCabDaddy

bmwr75 said:


> I know this is a vintage solid state thread.  But even earlier tube receivers or integrateds with headphone outputs are most excellent.  My Fisher X-101-C sounds amazing with headphones.




Not saying yours is but the thing you have to watch out for with old tube gear is the noise floor. Of course that is all part of getting old tube gear up to snuff. My old HK Citation V had these massive tone pots or whatever they are. Finally just did a straight wire bypass that solved a whole bunch of the noise and made it sound better as well. I'm now a big believer in tone circuit defeats.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

bmwr75 said:


> I know this is a vintage solid state thread.  But even earlier tube receivers or integrateds with headphone outputs are most excellent.  My Fisher X-101-C sounds amazing with headphones.




Not saying yours is but the thing you have to watch out for with old tube gear is the noise floor. Of course that is all part of getting old tube gear up to snuff. My old HK Citation V had these massive tone pots or whatever they are. Finally just did a straight wire bypass that solved a whole bunch of the noise and made it sound better as well. I'm now a big believer in tone circuit defeats.


----------



## moodyrn

bmwr75 said:


> I know this is a vintage solid state thread.  But even earlier tube receivers or integrateds with headphone outputs are most excellent.  My Fisher X-101-C sounds amazing with headphones.


 
   
   
  This thread is not limited to solid state. It just so happen they are much easier to find, and more importantly much easier to find in good working condition. When  I created this thread my only vintage piece was a fisher x-100c. It's the amp that started it all for me, and a ton of vintage gear has come and gone through my house, but I can never imagine myself without my fisher. And to add, finding a vintage "working" tube amp can be expensive as well. I was fortunate enough to get mine which was partially restored for less than 300.00. I see them go for more than that now broken and needing repairs. 
   
  Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Not saying yours is but the thing you have to watch out for with old tube gear is the noise floor. Of course that is all part of getting old tube gear up to snuff. My old HK Citation V had these massive tone pots or whatever they are. Finally just did a straight wire bypass that solved a whole bunch of the noise and made it sound better as well. I'm now a big believer in tone circuit defeats.


 
   
  Well I remember reading in the w3000anv thread that so many people were having difficulty finding "modern" tube amps that didn't hiss or hum with their w3000anv which are both highly sensitive and have a low impedance. Some of these amps people were speaking of were high end amps as well. The funny thing is, I never have that problem with mine out of my fisher. In fact, I only get a small(and I mean barely noticeable) amount of hiss with my jh13's.  But with my w3000's the background is completely black.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Not saying yours is but the thing you have to watch out for with old tube gear is the noise floor. Of course that is all part of getting old tube gear up to snuff. My old HK Citation V had these massive tone pots or whatever they are. Finally just did a straight wire bypass that solved a whole bunch of the noise and made it sound better as well. I'm now a big believer in tone circuit defeats.


 
   
  True.   Old tube gear if still all original needs at a minimum replacement of all the electrolytic caps and I go ahead and replace all the small value caps too.  Tubes can be noisy too, so sometimes you have to switch them out to isolate and eliminate the noise.  I've not run into noisy tubes much though.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed my Fisher is very quiet even with high sensitivity headphones but I had it partially recapped and I put in known NOS tubes.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, mine was partially restored as well, and that may have a lot to do with it. But there's no denying how great the design is. With some tube amps, it doesn't matter what you do, it's still going to hum with very sensitive cans because of the way it's designed. To me the only thing that separate it from the creme of the top tube amps are the extension at both ends, and instrument separation(which isn't bad btw). But I would still put it up against most 1000-1500.00 tube headphone amps I've listened to. But it make up for those things in spades, when it comes to producing a highly seductive, and almost addictive tone. 
   
  It's a very colored sound, but not a syrupy colored sound like some of the cheap tube amps I've listened to. It's a very naturally warm sound that doesn't come across as thick sounding. Just very lush and romantic. I call it the w3000 of tube amps. It has great trannies, all point to point, just a very good 50 year old designed tube amp. It makes mewonder how far has tube amp technology has come since then. The vintage marantz, and macs are even better examples. Well fisher too I guess, since the x100-101 series weren't their high end amps anyway.


----------



## Rawrbington

finally getting my rebuilt phono section run in on my 2245.
  couple of mods/upgrades to the circuitry.
  This thing sounds spectacular with my LCD2.
   
  with a good clean record, its a toss up between my turntable/marantz vs WA6SE / DLIII
   
  they absolutely sound diffferent, but both in a very pleasing engaging way.
  the marantz + shure cart + lcd2 lends to a thick sound.
   
  really need to get a phono stage for my woo.
   
  the thing that irritates me is the crap shoot that even new vinyl seems to be.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> *the thing that irritates me is the crap shoot that even new vinyl seems to be. *


 
   
  This. I've had to return many brand new, 180 gram "Audiophile-grade" pressings due to quality control issues. I hope they will eventually get it right, now that they realize vinyl is here to stay.


----------



## roadcykler

Any of you guys ever seen one of these? 
  I didn't even know they existed. Very nice.


----------



## Silent One

What Market was this edition for?


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> Any of you guys ever seen one of these?
> I didn't even know they existed. Very nice.


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> What Market was this edition for?


 
   
  Europe I believe.


----------



## Silent One

My Saturday afternoon ~
   
  I'm watching the Men's NCAA Tourney - March Madness, while packing up for a move. My glorious Pioneer was sitting on the floor (1980 SX-D7000) while I tried to negotiate an end piece of bedroom furniture around it. ALL with one eye on the game. And clipped 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





a piece off the wood cabinet on the side.


----------



## palmfish

That hurts..


----------



## Silent One

@ my own hand.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> My Saturday afternoon ~
> 
> I'm watching the Men's NCAA Tourney - March Madness, while packing up for a move. My glorious Pioneer was sitting on the floor (1980 SX-D7000) while I tried to negotiate an end piece of bedroom furniture around it. ALL with one eye on the game. And clipped
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Oh no!
   
   
  I just ordered parts for my HPM-100 crossovers this week. With my speakers down for a few days, I'm going to open the SX-1250 and the 2265B and have a look at the caps. Check the bias too. I've been spending some time over at AK this past week, and it convinced me to look more into the vintage receivers.  I just love em.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think when I get settled again this summer, I'm going to both have my SX-D7000 cleaned up; checked thoroughly, and buy another big bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 vintage block. Not sure how to check the off-set, bias and such. But it's going in the shop eventually, so...


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think when I get settled again this summer, I'm going to both have my SX-D7000 cleaned up; checked thoroughly, and buy another big bad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5634  I think Skylab posted this for me a whle back. I saved it as I was plannign to dig into my units.
   
  I just remembered I have a 2230 in the basement needing work too. Busy summer...


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, wotts! Now, if could just find a multi-meter tomorrow somewhere around the house...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I just ordered parts for my HPM-100 crossovers this week. With my speakers down for a few days, I'm going to open the SX-1250 and the 2265B and have a look at the caps. Check the bias too. I've been spending some time over at AK this past week, and it convinced me to look more into the vintage receivers.  I just love em.


 
   
  Quote: 





wotts said:


> I just remembered I have a 2230 in the basement needing work too. Busy summer...


 
   
  Surely you don't need more than five or six...


----------



## Skylab

Wotts, remember that the most important thing to check and adjust is DC Offset.  You have to be very careful adjusting bias current, as you can actually damage the amp if you mess that up.  The screw pots typicall used for adjusting dc offset and bias can be a little wonky.  But getting DC offset right will make an amp sound much, much better.  
   
  SO, that's a bummer for sure, but I know people who will make custom wood cases for the vintage Pioneer stuff that looks much better than the original. So if you decide the D7000 is a permanent keeper, this is a fixable problem


----------



## PhoenixG

That black Pioneer is gorgeous! I would probably trade my SX-1980 for that if I saw it locally. What is the model number on that anyways?


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





wotts said:


> Oh no!
> 
> 
> I just ordered parts for my HPM-100 crossovers this week. With my speakers down for a few days, I'm going to open the SX-1250 and the 2265B and have a look at the caps. Check the bias too. I've been spending some time over at AK this past week, and it convinced me to look more into the vintage receivers.  I just love em.


 
   
  Is it tough to learn how to do that kind of stuff? Do you need loads of special equipment? I hear it talked about a lot and it's something I might like to try myself.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> That black Pioneer is gorgeous! I would probably trade my SX-1980 for that if I saw it locally. What is the model number on that anyways?


 
   
   It's the 5590, the black multi-voltage version of the SX-1250. And that particular one has been completely recapped and restored by a real pro.  It will sell for very big money.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wotts, remember that the most important thing to check and adjust is DC Offset.  You have to be very careful adjusting bias current, as you can actually damage the amp if you mess that up.  The screw pots typicall used for adjusting dc offset and bias can be a little wonky.  But getting DC offset right will make an amp sound much, much better.
> 
> SO, that's a bummer for sure, but I know people who will make custom wood cases for the vintage Pioneer stuff that looks much better than the original. So if you decide the D7000 is a permanent keeper, this is a fixable problem


 
   
  Now that the Fluroscan meters work, I'm keepin' this bad boy. Was gonna keep it anyway, actually. I discovered the meters work for speaker and headphone output. Still need to have the amp inspected, though. 
   
  I have seen this model both with and without the wood and looks good either way. One day I'll get to it...


----------



## Argybargy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wotts, remember that the most important thing to check and adjust is DC Offset.  You have to be very careful adjusting bias current, as you can actually damage the amp if you mess that up.  The screw pots typicall used for adjusting dc offset and bias can be a little wonky.  But getting DC offset right will make an amp sound much, much better.
> 
> SO, that's a bummer for sure, but I know people who will make custom wood cases for the vintage Pioneer stuff that looks much better than the original. So if you decide the D7000 is a permanent keeper, this is a fixable problem


 
  +1 on caution with the bias pots. On one of my first rebuilds I forgot to preset the bias pot with the value in the original... Turned it on and poof, smelled smoke.  Had to deal with a mess of burned out resistors and transistors.


----------



## kanwingshing

Hi guys I am new on this forum. Anyone got a good recommendation of vintage amp servicing with Ontario Canada? I got a Marantz 2220 that has an unusually high noise floor. Help very much appreciated!! 
   
  Vincent


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wotts, remember that the most important thing to check and adjust is DC Offset.  You have to be very careful adjusting bias current, as you can actually damage the amp if you mess that up.  The screw pots typicall used for adjusting dc offset and bias can be a little wonky.  But getting DC offset right will make an amp sound much, much better.
> 
> SO, that's a bummer for sure, but I know people who will make custom wood cases for the vintage Pioneer stuff that looks much better than the original. So if you decide the D7000 is a permanent keeper, this is a fixable problem


 
   
   
  Roget that boss. I've let the smoke out of enough stuff, and I'd like to not do that on these. Funny thing about smoke, you can't get it back in.
   
  I started the HPM crossovers tonight. I'm 2 hours into the first one - the glue is being stubborn. I decided to upgrade the binding posts too, and that required a little modification. I'll post pics in the speaker thread when I'm done.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, that darned glue. Last weekend I modded a set of HPM-100 crossovers to lower the woofer -mid crossover point to about 1200 Hz.  Involved changing one of the inductors, which is a huge pain since it was glued to the board.  Managed to get it but it was so tough I lost steam and didn't actually try them out yet! This weekend hopefully


----------



## SpeakerBox

Goodwill find - only $13.99 + tax for a Pioneer SX 750!!!  And it works perfectly with only a couple of lights not working and a little static on the balance control.  I have been in this same GW 25 times and have not seen a thing, today I was just stunned to see this sitting there.  Any comments on the upside/downside of this unit are welcome.


----------



## IA64

Sansui G-6700 here !! 90Watts min. per channel --  THD 0.025 % --   one owner and won't ever sell it. This thing sounds ever better than my Mark Levinson Ampli. Connected to iMac with Musical Fidelity DAC ( got it recently )


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ia64 said:


> Sansui G-6700 here !! 90Watts min. per channel --  THD 0.025 % --   one owner and won't ever sell it. This thing sounds ever better than my Mark Levinson Ampli. Connected to iMac with Musical Fidelity DAC ( got it recently )


 
  Interesting that you mention this sounding better than your Levinson.  I had a Proceed Amp 3 for a bit, and while the transparency and detail were incredible - I found the sound to be a bit thin and strident at times.  Have since replaced the Proceed with two Jeff Rowland Model Ones in bridged mono configuration.  The Rowlands won't be going anywhere!   Never heard a Sansui receiver, but it must sound awesome.  Hopefully someday I will get my hands on one.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Goodwill find - only $13.99 + tax for a Pioneer SX 750!!!  And it works perfectly with only a couple of lights not working and a little static on the balance control.  I have been in this same GW 25 times and have not seen a thing, today I was just stunned to see this sitting there.  Any comments on the upside/downside of this unit are welcome.


 
   
  Great find! I need to start visiting thrift stores again! I visited them regularly for a while and never found silver.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, speaker box, that's quite a score for that tiny price! Very nice! Used for headphones or reasonably efficient speakers that should be a very nice little unit.  I've only heard the big brother SX-1250, but the whole SX-xx50 line is well regarded.
   
  I've never, ever seen anything like that at my local goodwill.  And I'm pretty sure I never will.


----------



## BournePerfect

Just bought a Pioneer SA-8100 off eBay. Will be trying the HD800 on it soon...

-Daniel


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Just bought a Pioneer SA-8100 off eBay. Will be trying the HD800 on it soon...
> 
> -Daniel


 
   
  Good luck with it. I found my HD800's to sound way too warm and muddy with my Carver amp. It sounds nice with some electronic music, but for vocals and acoustic music (and rock with acoustic percussion), I think the high impedance Sennheisers really need a low output impedance heaphone jack to sound right. I'm curious to read about your findings with the SA-8100.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed, speaker box, that's quite a score for that tiny price! Very nice! Used for headphones or reasonably efficient speakers that should be a very nice little unit.  I've only heard the big brother SX-1250, but the whole SX-xx50 line is well regarded.
> 
> I've never, ever seen anything like that at my local goodwill.  And I'm pretty sure I never will.


 
   
  Thanks for the nice comments, guys.  My guess is that this will never happen again.  I am still pinching myself on this one.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Good luck with it. I found my HD800's to sound way too warm and muddy with my Carver amp. It sounds nice with some electronic music, but for vocals and acoustic music (and rock with acoustic percussion), I think the high impedance Sennheisers really need a low output impedance heaphone jack to sound right. I'm curious to read about your findings with the SA-8100.


 
  Yeah hopefully it can tide me over while my 'real' amp gets built in the next few months...I had pretty good results from my previous Kenwood KA 3500(?) so I'll let you know.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Good luck with it. I found my HD800's to sound way too warm and muddy with my Carver amp. It sounds nice with some electronic music, but for vocals and acoustic music (and rock with acoustic percussion), I think the high impedance Sennheisers really need a low output impedance heaphone jack to sound right. I'm curious to read about your findings with the SA-8100.


 
   
  Wow. My Carver amp was the harshest sounding thing I've ever heard. Needless to say, it wasn't mine for very long.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Yeah hopefully it can tide me over while my 'real' amp gets built in the next few months...I had pretty good results from my previous Kenwood KA 3500(?) so I'll let you know.
> 
> -Daniel


 
  The SA-8100 should be nice. Crazy Ray likes his!
  I'm using and enjoying a rescued SA-7100.
  I'm impressed with how well laid out the guts are and the 8100/9100 are MUCH more impressive!
  Inside SA-7100:


----------



## BournePerfect

I've read the 7100/8100/9100 are sonically pretty much the same-with the higher models mainly having more bells and whistles. Have you tried an HD 800 on the 7100? How would you describe the amps signature, in general?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## atbglenn

My Kenwood KA7002 Integrated Amp, and KT7001 Tuner from the early 70's. The Tuner still works like a champ. Sad to say the Integrated Amp is there just for show. Basically, it sounds like crap.


----------



## CrazyRay

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> The SA-8100 should be nice. Crazy Ray likes his!


 
   
  I thought I felt my ears ringing!

 My Pioneer SA-8100 amplifier and TX-8100 tuner are working flawlessly.

 Both sound great, but I mostly use the WA6 SE and my main system, Kenwood KA-907 pre amp and KT-917 Tuner.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I've read the 7100/8100/9100 are sonically pretty much the same-with the higher models mainly having more bells and whistles. Have you tried an HD 800 on the 7100? How would you describe the amps signature, in general?
> 
> -Daniel


 
  They are sonically similar, but the 8100/9100 have more complex design.
  The signature is 70s warm and full.
  I have not tried with Sennheisers but this amp has the loudest headphone ouput of any I've owned,so volume won't be a problem with the HD800 - but I can't vouch for the SQ. I guess it would be a good test of how well these 40 year old amps are really holding up.


----------



## Skylab

CrazyRay, I have a TEAC A3340S reel deck being delivered today. Psyched to check it out. I have been having so much fun with r2r that I wanted a deck that would do 10.5" reels and 15 ips


----------



## CrazyRay

That's awesome Skylab!
 There is definitely something magical about tape.
 You need to post some photos on our old thread when you get it!
 I'd love to see it!


----------



## Skylab

Surely will do.  Hope to get it up and running this weekend.


----------



## moodyrn

CrazyRay how do you like your ka907? I've had mine since last summer, and it's impressed me more than any vintage totl receiver/integrated I've owned so far.


----------



## CrazyRay

I love it moodyrn!
 I bought it many years ago and it is a real beast.
 At almost 60 lbs and a whopping 150 watts per channel, it just cranks!
 What really impresses me the most though is the KT-917 Tuner.
 I can get every station there is, all the way up and down the dial, picking up some really great college stations.
 It is one great amp/tuner combo.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah after owning, pioneer sx1010, kenwood kr9600, sansui au517, au9900, marantz 2325, 2330b.....my ka907 is just head and shoulders above them all. Not that the rest wasn't truly excellent, they were all killer sounding pieces. But the kenny is just on a different playing field, and the one amp I'll never get rid of. And yes, this thing is a monster. I read some bold claims of it actually producing sx1980 type power. I'm not to sure about that one, but the 150wpc rating is a very conservative rating. 
   
  I would love to have the matching kt917, but that thing is just as hard to find as the ka907 was. But maybe one day.


----------



## CrazyRay

Happy hunting on the KT-917 Tuner moodyrn.

 It is definitely worth the effort!


----------



## claybum

Yes! The ka 907 is truly excellent. I aquired mine a few weeks ago serviced and recapped. Have not listened to any of my other vintage gear since. Has me very interested in other kenwood gear.


----------



## moodyrn

I see you have a couple of the same cans I have. Which ones do you like best with the 907?


----------



## claybum

Well, the he-6 is my favorite can so it is usually on my head. They sound the best on the kenwood. The ka 907 brightened up my lcd-2 and made it a bit more lively. So that is a positive. The kenwood is the only vintage amp that is dead silent with my at3000anv. Really, it's all a big positive. Whatever I plug in sounds great.
   
  I have a pair of  B & W cdm1se on the way so I look forward to plugging those in.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I think the preamp in it is outstanding. It's one of the few amps that's dead quiet with my w3000, and at the same time having plenty of juice for the he6 through the headphone jack. But I do use them off the speaker taps as they sound a little better. It's also quiet enough to run my jh13 with a very usable range from the volume control. Iems and he6 from the same jack? Now that's quiet a feat!


----------



## BigCabDaddy

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, I think the preamp in it is outstanding. It's one of the few amps that's dead quiet with my w3000, and at the same time having plenty of juice for the he6 through the headphone jack. But I do use them off the speaker taps as they sound a little better. It's also quiet enough to run my jh13 with a very usable range from the volume control. Iems and he6 from the same jack? Now that's quiet a feat!




I know this is a hijacking no no but how do you drive headphones from speaker outputs?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> I know this is a hijacking no no but how do you drive headphones from speaker outputs?


 
   
   
  I use these:
   

   
   
   
  The banana plugs go into the speaker taps and I already have dual 3 pin XLR for each channel of my HE-6 to connect to the other end.


----------



## Skylab

For those interested, the TEAC A3340S is happily spinning tape here. It's a pretty awesome deck!


----------



## Rawrbington

i've lusted after a KA 907 for a while now.  i just never find one for sale for a reasonable price.
  wanting it pushed me towards the KR 9050, which is great (and not nearly as expensive as the monsters from Pioneer Marantz and Sansui) but im sure the 901 is that much better.  the insides look different.  toroidal in the kr vs dual transformers in the 907.
  and i love the compact design of the 907.  something that would actually fit on my headphone rack, where as the 9050 is way too big.


----------



## moodyrn

Don't sell yourself short. The 9050 is a great receiver. Maybe the best one kenwood ever made. But don't let the internal pics of the 907 fool you. It not far behind size wise(9050 23x6x18, 907 18x6x18) while being a few pounds heavier. But 23in wide is super massive though. The 9050 was on my short list after really loving the 9600, but they're almost as hard to find as the 907 is. But much more harder to find than the 9600. But the 9050 is no small consolation prize, wish I had one. 
   
  That looks great Skylab! Congrats on your great find.


----------



## kanwingshing

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I use these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Any other solution for non-balanced headphone users?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





kanwingshing said:


> Any other solution for non-balanced headphone users?


 
   
  I made these for my HE-6, using solid silver wire.


----------



## harrinj

Found this guy in a thrift store yesterday. The lights and everything is working GREAT and is in perfect shape not even a scratch. I also have an HK 430 and I am blown away by this Kenwood KR-7400. this thing powers my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm unlike anything I have ever experienced. It's hooked up to my Nuforce UDH-100 and it's just amazing just amazing. listening to Pink Floyd Comfortably Numb from PULSE vinyl 24-Bit 192Khz


----------



## 99-1

Is it possible to use “deck cassette” instead of “dac”? I mean conecting ipad to the input of “deck cassette” and giving its output to the amp? (like the case of using dac)


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





kanwingshing said:


> Any other solution for non-balanced headphone users?


 
   
  What headphone are you trying to connect to what amp?
   
  In general, you do not want to connect a standard three-conductor headphone cable to the speaker outputs of an amplifier. This will bridge the *-/ground* lines of the left and right channels on the amp, and some amplifiers do not permit it.
   
  At the same time, most headphones are too efficient to make powering directly from the speaker taps worthwhile. The HE-6 and AKG K-1000 are prominent exceptions.
   
  Quote: 





99-1 said:


> Is it possible to use “deck cassette” instead of “dac”? I mean conecting ipad to the input of “deck cassette” and giving its output to the amp? (like the case of using dac)


 
   
  Yes.


----------



## hodgjy

What a great find!
   
  Quote: 





harrinj said:


> Found this guy in a thrift store yesterday. The lights and everything is working GREAT and is in perfect shape not even a scratch. I also have an HK 430 and I am blown away by this Kenwood KR-7400. this thing powers my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm unlike anything I have ever experienced. It's hooked up to my Nuforce UDH-100 and it's just amazing just amazing. listening to Pink Floyd Comfortably Numb from PULSE vinyl 24-Bit 192Khz


----------



## 99-1

thank you. i have two choise :
  1)  pioneer ct-f500 or similar one:




   
  2) Denon lecteur cassette  DRR-F100
  (its size is half of pioneer)




   
   
  which of them are best for my receiver(sansui 331) to be dac?


----------



## hodgjy

I don't follow you very well.  A DAC is a digital to audio converter.  Only the CD player you listed has one.  The tape player is full analog.  Can you rephrase your question? 
   
  Quote: 





99-1 said:


> thank you. i have two choise :
> 1)  pioneer ct-f500
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## moodyrn

harrinj said:


> Found this guy in a thrift store yesterday. The lights and everything is working GREAT and is in perfect shape not even a scratch. I also have an HK 430 and I am blown away by this Kenwood KR-7400. this thing powers my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm unlike anything I have ever experienced. It's hooked up to my Nuforce UDH-100 and it's just amazing just amazing. listening to Pink Floyd Comfortably Numb from PULSE vinyl 24-Bit 192Khz




Now that is a great find. The few things I've seen in thrift stores were also very beat up. To find something in that kind of condition in a thrift store is very, very rare. Congrats.


----------



## 99-1

i have heard that for high quality, the input should be connect to the "dac" and then from the dac to the amp
ardgedee told that is possible to use the deck cassette(input-output) as a dac
  question is which of the following cassette deck is better?


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





99-1 said:


> i have heard that for high quality, the input should be connect to the "dac" and then from the dac to the amp
> ardgedee told that is possible to use the deck cassette(input-output) as a dac
> question is which of the following cassette deck is better?


 
   
  Sorry, you aren't being very clear.
   
  Tapes are analog - there is no DAC in the chain.
   
  I have a TOTL Denon cassette deck I bought new in 1985 and a large collection of recordings that I made in the 80's and early 90's. By todays standards, they sound horrible - I almost never listen to them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
  Unless you have a large collection of cassette recordings that you prize, don't buy a cassette deck...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





99-1 said:


> i have heard that for high quality, the input should be connect to the "dac" and then from the dac to the amp
> ardgedee told that is possible to use the deck cassette(input-output) as a dac
> question is which of the following cassette deck is better?


 
   
  Sorry, no, I thought you were asking whether you could connect a DAC's output to your receiver's tape input.
   
  Your cassette deck does not have a DAC in it.


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Sorry, you aren't being very clear.
> 
> Tapes are analog - there is no DAC in the chain.
> 
> ...


 
  sorry my English is not so good
 i dont want to record any cassette , just want to use deck as dac

  the schematic:  






 back of the deck:





   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Sorry, no, I thought you were asking whether you could connect a DAC's output to your receiver's tape input.
> 
> Your cassette deck does not have a DAC in it.


 
  thank you my Friend so the project is cancel


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





99-1 said:


> back of the deck:


 
   
  That is a DIN 5/180°. It is an analog connector that handles both input and output. You would use either that or the RCA connectors to its right to connect the tape deck to your receiver; they serve the same purpose. You can read about it here.


----------



## Skylab

Right - cassette decks do not have digital inputs.  Nor do vintage receivers. You can connect an iPad via the headphone out directly to an AUX or TAPE input of a vintage receiver, or you can use something like the Pure i20 to connect an iPad to a DAC and then to the receiver.


----------



## ardgedee

We hashed it out over PM a little; I prescribed getting an LOD -> RCA adaptor cable, which allows him to use the iPad's line out. This provides a low-threshold way of getting decent sound out of the device. If he has a new iPad with Lightning connector, it'll still work -- he'll just need a Lightning -> 30 pin adaptor. Systems that rely on digital out from the Lightning port are still thin on the ground.


----------



## hodgjy

Does anyone know if Pure will be releasing a new or updated dock that can extract digital from Lightning without the use of an adapter?
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> We hashed it out over PM a little; I prescribed getting an LOD -> RCA adaptor cable, which allows him to use the iPad's line out. This provides a low-threshold way of getting decent sound out of the device. If he has a new iPad with Lightning connector, it'll still work -- he'll just need a Lightning -> 30 pin adaptor. *Systems that rely on digital out from the Lightning port are still thin on the ground.*


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Now that is a great find. The few things I've seen in thrift stores were also very beat up. To find something in that kind of condition in a thrift store is very, very rare. Congrats.


 
  IKR!? thanks  I really like it. my Harman Kardon 430 has a bad hiss on the phono stage and a somewhat less hiss on the rest (it needs to be fixed), but this Kenwood is completely normal and sounds just as good! I really only needed to clean the knobs and spray some stuff with deoxit and that was it. I am looking for an HK 730 and a Quad receiver.


----------



## 99-1

i have used this cable up to now
   
   

   
   
  but that mentioned by ardgedee  seems to have a better sound.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Now that is a great find. The few things I've seen in thrift stores were also very beat up. To find something in that kind of condition in a thrift store is very, very rare. Congrats.


 
   
  I have had only one experience with Kenwood gear, and it has been glorious.  A few years back I bought a Kenwood KT-7550 (euro version of 7500) off of EBAY and proceeded to do all the modifications (and then some) recommended at the fmtunerinfo site for this unit.  It sounds so good, that it is pretty much all I listen to.  IMHO it easily beats my NAD M55 CD for detail, clarity, transparency and depth/width of sound stage.  Don't get me wrong, the M55 is no slouch - it sounds pretty darn good - but I doubt many components would hold up to this comparison.  I would encourage any of you who enjoy FM like I do to consider a project like this - you won't regret it!


----------



## weverb

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> Any of you guys ever seen one of these?
> I didn't even know they existed. Very nice.


 
   
  Just saw a 5580 (black SX-1050) at my local used record store. It is even nicer looking in person. They wanted $500.


----------



## calipilot227

The Onkyo has been having some weird issues as of late. I sprayed DeOxit in all the pots and switches, but for some reason, the bass randomly cuts in and out in one channel (does it sporadically in both, not just left/right exclusive). Happens with speakers, but is much more noticeable with headphones. Any idea what might cause this?
   
  I checked for DC offset, but my meter read zero even on the lowest setting.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Hey all,

  I came across a *Marantz PM-700 DC* in my local shop today. Was wondering if this amp is any good?

  (I believe it's from 1979-1982? Here's a page w/ specs I found, although most of it is over my head: http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/336/1613.html?begin=21)

   

  I'd use it connected to:

  (1) MacbookPro>FiiO E10>FiiO E9 pre-out

  (2) Dual CS-630 Q turntable

   

  ....using both speakers and several headphones (*Senn HD-600, Grado SR 225i, Denon D7000, & Beyer DT 770 Pro-80)*.

   

  Price is $250, but is somewhat negotiable (looks real clean inside, but has 2 deep smallish scratches on the front). Good deal?

  Thanks.


----------



## harrinj

There is a full set of Onkyo Model U-30, P-303 and what ever the matching tuner is called in terrific shape at an antique/auction house in a town near me that I really wanted to get but they want WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much for it (almost $200 each. can you believe that?) and to add insult to injury (I am on the Oregon coast) they have it in their rear area in a moist warehouse type room and it pisses me off for something that is in such good of shape to be sitting in that.


----------



## moodyrn

bee inthe attic said:


> Hey all,
> 
> 
> 
> ...





That series of marantz isn't well regarded. That line started the departure from the typical vintage marantz sound. No way would I spend anywhere near 250.00 or even half of that on that integrated. The internals of the piece is a dead give away as well, as it's not nearly as overly built as the preceding integrateds. In fact, it actually looks cheap on the inside. But I'm only speaking for me.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





weverb said:


> Just saw a 5580 (black SX-1050) at my local used record store. It is even nicer looking in person. They wanted $500.


 
  Thats a very nice piece. Those were issued in military PX in the late 70's and not seenv ery often. If it is good shape its worth the money. Is is equivalent to to the silver series 1050.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> The Onkyo has been having some weird issues as of late. I sprayed DeOxit in all the pots and switches, but for some reason, the bass randomly cuts in and out in one channel (does it sporadically in both, not just left/right exclusive). Happens with speakers, but is much more noticeable with headphones. Any idea what might cause this?
> 
> I checked for DC offset, but my meter read zero even on the lowest setting.


 
   
  If I were looking at this, I might start with the tone control circuitry (tone board).  Could be a failing CAP or cold solder joint - but just a guess on my part.  Please let us know if you resolve the issue.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> The Onkyo has been having some weird issues as of late. I sprayed DeOxit in all the pots and switches, but for some reason, the bass randomly cuts in and out in one channel (does it sporadically in both, not just left/right exclusive). Happens with speakers, but is much more noticeable with headphones. Any idea what might cause this?
> 
> I checked for DC offset, but my meter read zero even on the lowest setting.


 
   
  Does the meter read exactly zero? In that case the Onkyo is probably capacitor coupled on the output and you can't really measure DC offset this way.
   
  I think Speakerbox is right - you may be having a problem with the tone control board. Is there a tone defeat switch? What effect does it have relative to this issue?


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





bee inthe attic said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I came across a *Marantz PM-700 DC* in my local shop today. Was wondering if this amp is any good?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'd be leery of it just because of the graphic equalizer alone. That's a whole lot of filters inline.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That series of marantz isn't well regarded. That line started the departure from the typical vintage marantz sound. No way would I spend anywhere near 250.00 or even half of that on that integrated. The internals of the piece is a dead give away as well, as it's not nearly as overly built as the preceding integrateds. In fact, it actually looks cheap on the inside. But I'm only speaking for me.


 
  I read that Marantz line from the end of the 70's early 80's weren't well regarded, so thanks for conforming that. The internals looked clean, but since I don't have much experience with amps/circuitry, I have no idea what to look for. What do you think about using the Marantz receiver's (like the 2226b, and all of the similar models). They are priced around $200 from what I remember, and prices seem similar on ebay.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> I'd be leery of it just because of the graphic equalizer alone. That's a whole lot of filters inline.


 

 the EQ was was something I liked about this amp. never thought about your perspective, so thanks.


----------



## moodyrn

You'd be happy with anything from the classic line, and that's both receivers and integrated. Sonically many prefer the integrated equivalents more with regards to sound quality because you are removing a lot of components from the chain and with the power supply being more dedicated to the amping side of things. For example, 1060 integrated vs 2230 receiver.


----------



## calipilot227

skylab said:


> Does the meter read exactly zero? In that case the Onkyo is probably capacitor coupled on the output and you can't really measure DC offset this way.
> 
> I think Speakerbox is right - you may be having a problem with the tone control board. Is there a tone defeat switch? What effect does it have relative to this issue?



The meter reads zero, even on its highest sensitivity. There is unfortunately no tone defeat switch. I'll crack open the service manual and see if I can bypass the board completely.

If it requires service above my (limited) capabilities, would this model even be worth professionally servicing? It's the TX-2500 MKII


----------



## BigCabDaddy

moodyrn said:


> You'd be happy with anything from the classic line, and that's both receivers and integrated. Sonically many prefer the integrated equivalents more with regards to sound quality because you are removing a lot of components from the chain and with the power supply being more dedicated to the amping side of things. For example, 1060 integrated vs 2230 receiver.




That same line of reasoning takes you to separates and then mono amps. Not saying I disagree though.


----------



## moodyrn

Not necessarily. For me it depends on price, and more importantly condition when it comes to vintage gear. Would I take a separate power amp, preamp, and tuner combo over a the equivalent monster receiver if all things were equal? Heck yes, in a heart beat. But for some, space may be a concern, and others may prefer the simplicity of receivers. But you can't be that picky when it comes to vintage gear. Receivers are much more easier to find, and you don't have to worry about potentially repairing/recapping three different components as well. But I wouldn't pass on neither if found in very good condition for a fair price.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Not necessarily. For me it depends on price, and more importantly condition when it comes to vintage gear. Would I take a separate power amp, preamp, and tuner combo over a the equivalent monster receiver if all things were equal? Heck yes, in a heart beat. But for some, space may be a concern, and others may prefer the simplicity of receivers. But you can't be that picky when it comes to vintage gear. Receivers are much more easier to find, and you don't have to worry about potentially repairing/recapping three different components as well. *But I wouldn't pass on neither if found in very good condition for a fair price.*


 
   
  what would you consider a fair price for a very good condition Marantz 2230 (or 2226b, or any of those receivers in that 2xxx range)?
  I'd like to buy one locally, and negotiate on price, but have little idea what they're worth.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> The meter reads zero, even on its highest sensitivity. There is unfortunately no tone defeat switch. I'll crack open the service manual and see if I can bypass the board completely.
> 
> If it requires service above my (limited) capabilities, would this model even be worth professionally servicing? It's the TX-2500 MKII


 
   
  I know nothing about them, but from this post, unless the repair is super cheap, it doesn't sound like somewhere to put a bunch of money, only because you can just buy another for what you might need to get a basic repair done on that one.
   
  http://classicreceivers.com/onkyo-tx-2500-mki
   
  Now, if you had a TX-8500 II, that would be different...


----------



## moodyrn

bee inthe attic said:


> what would you consider a fair price for a very good condition Marantz 2230 (or 2226b, or any of those receivers in that 2xxx range)?
> I'd like to buy one locally, and negotiate on price, but have little idea what they're worth.




The 2230 is one of the most popular marantz receivers, and I've seen them go for as much as 400.00. If you can find one mint with the wood case for around 200.00, that would be a decent price. I think they're overprice for the modest though conservatively rated 30wpc. For not much more money, I would shoot for a 2252 or even a 2270. Now those are a good step up from the 2230 imo. But if it was me, I wouldn't pay over 200.00 for a mint one, with 150.00 being the price I would shoot for. Now if you don't mind looking at other brands, the pioneer sx650 is a great little receiver that can be had all day for 50-100.00. That's getting a lot more for the money. The sansui 517 or 717 can be had for between 200-300.00 with the 717 having plenty of juice at an also conservatively rated 85wpc.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The 2230 is one of the most popular marantz receivers, and I've seen them go for as much as 400.00. If you can find one mint with the wood case for around 200.00, that would be a decent price. I think they're overprice for the modest though conservatively rated 30wpc. For not much more money, I would shoot for a 2252 or even a 2270. Now those are a good step up from the 2230 imo. But if it was me, I wouldn't pay over 200.00 for a mint one, with 150.00 being the price I would shoot for. Now if you don't mind looking at other brands, the pioneer sx650 is a great little receiver that can be had all day for 50-100.00. That's getting a lot more for the money. The sansui 517 or 717 can be had for between 200-300.00 with the 717 having plenty of juice at an also conservatively rated 85wpc.


 
   
  Before I really started looking at prices, I paid $150 for a barely working 2230. It needs a recap and lots of DeOxit. On the flipside, I score my 2265B for the same price.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The *2230* is one of the most popular marantz receivers, and I've seen them go for as much as 400.00. If you can find one mint with the wood case for around 200.00, that would be a decent price. I think they're overprice for the modest though conservatively rated 30wpc. For not much more money, I would shoot for a* 2252* or even a *2270*. Now those are a good step up from the 2230 imo. But if it was me, I wouldn't pay over 200.00 for a mint one, with 150.00 being the price I would shoot for. Now if you don't mind looking at other brands, the pioneer sx650 is a great little receiver that can be had all day for 50-100.00. That's getting a lot more for the money. The sansui 517 or 717 can be had for between 200-300.00 with the 717 having plenty of juice at an also conservatively rated 85wpc.


 
  are these capable of driving a Senn HD 600 (300 ohm), and Grado SR 225i (32 ohm) real well? (better than budget amps like the FiiO E9?)


----------



## moodyrn

Yes!! Much better.


----------



## parbaked

And you get even better performance/$ if you don't require the tuner and buy the comparable integrated amp e.g. the 1060 integrated amplifier is a 2230 without the tuner. Cheaper and arguably better, but no nice lights or radio...


----------



## Rawrbington

2230 is a great receiver for driving headphones.
  I had the 1060 which is the integrated version of the 2230.
  the 2230, 2245 and 2270 really all sound pretty much the same.  as close to the same as possible.
  the other marantz 22xx sound a little different as they are a newer run (mid to late 70s) vs the early to mid 70s of the 30/45/70.
  me personally i prefer the earlier ones, a little more lush and thicker.
  but every 22xx i've heard has sounded excellent.  not a bad one in the bunch that i know of.
  2 different groups but within those 2 groups the sound is pretty much identical.  Aside from the 2285(b) 2330 and 2385(b) which i've never heard.
   
  again me preferring the earlier run is purely an opinion.  some people like the later ones better, others like the  earlier.  can't go wrong with either.  the later ones have a little more in the upper mids(still a warmish sounding amp though), and the earlier ones are a little more rolled off in the highs and slightly fatter at the bottom.  to my ears anyways.
   
  and yeah the SX650 is a great receiver for headphones.   theres what appears to be a mint condition one for sale on my CL for 80 bucks.  too bad I already have one.  but i still kinda want to grab it since its in such great shape and mine is beat to crap


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> and yeah the SX650 is a great receiver for headphones.   theres what appears to be a mint condition one for sale on my CL for 80 bucks.  too bad I already have one.  but i still kinda want to grab it since its in such great shape and mine is beat to crap


 
   
   
  For $80, I'd pick it up too. Then again, I know I'd end up with one full wall of vintage receivers in the basement too. Saw a picture like that over on AK.


----------



## Bee inthe Attic

Thanks for all the advice. Ideally, I'd like to find a Marantz integrated amp (ie 1060), but I haven't been able to find one in shops or craigslist. Tons of the receivers are for sale, and overpriced.... but I'll keep my eyes open.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have a Marantz 2230 in good shape, now recapped, and feel the sound of these units to be highly overrated (recapped or not).  IMHO a lower power Pioneer or Sherwood easily bests it (especially the Sherwood).  I read on AK someone saying that the blue lights on the Marantz units makes people suspend logic (in terms of what they are really hearing).  I think he is absolutely correct.   The advice on looking at the SX650 is good advice.


----------



## Skylab

I also prefer the more neutral sound of the Pioneer SX-xx50 and SX-xx80 series. I like the Marantz 2285 I have but it's kind of a warm fuzzy sort of sound.


----------



## JSchwage

I've just recently become the owner of a McIntosh MAC 4100 receiver that I inherited from my father along with a couple McIntosh XR14 loudspeakers. At this point I don't have room for the speakers in my apartment but I have to say I have been thoroughly been enjoying using the headphone output from this receiver!


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> I also prefer the more neutral sound of the Pioneer SX-xx50 and SX-xx80 series. I like the Marantz 2285 I have but it's kind of a warm fuzzy sort of sound.




Yeah, I agree. My last marantz receiver was a 2325 which has a similar warm, fuzzy sound as the 22xx series. I was a fun sound, and more of a niche type sound for me that worked better for some headphones/speakers than others. If you don't like that type of sound, their 2330B, 2385, 25-2600 receivers are a departure from that sound. My 2330B is still slightly warm, but much closer to neutral than the others. Though the 25-2600 do fetch 4 figures, the 2330B can be had for 600-1000 and sounds excellent. It can power anything from iems(with a very slight hiss) to the monstrous he6 through the headphone jack. It's not as rolled off in the highs either. There's a couple of them on ebay now. 

I would also consider kenwoods, to me they are the best value of the brands. I like the ones I've listened to better than pioneer. And they can be had very cheap until you get into the trio lines like the 500, 600, ka907.


----------



## moodyrn

jschwage said:


> I've just recently become the owner of a McIntosh MAC 4100 receiver that I inherited from my father along with a couple McIntosh XR14 loudspeakers. At this point I don't have room for the speakers in my apartment but I have to say I have been thoroughly been enjoying using the headphone output from this receiver!




That's a receiver I've been very interested in. Though can be a little hard to find without carrying the price premium of being a mac.


----------



## ardgedee

jschwage said:


> I've just recently become the owner of a McIntosh MAC 4100 receiver that I inherited from my father along with a couple McIntosh XR14 loudspeakers. At this point I don't have room for the speakers in my apartment but I have to say I have been thoroughly been enjoying using the headphone output from this receiver!




Welcome to the MAC 4100 club!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I also prefer the more neutral sound of the Pioneer SX-xx50 and SX-xx80 series. I like the Marantz 2285 I have but it's kind of a warm fuzzy sort of sound.


 
  The comparable Pioneer integrated amps - SA-7100 / 8100 / 9100 are also very good kit!
  This 1974 Pioneer SA-7100 drives my vinyl rig.  20 highly enjoyable WPC.
  Rega P2/Benz Micro Silver > Pioneer SA-7100 > Royd Audio Eden or Alessandro Music Series MS2


----------



## Rawrbington

buncha marantz haters in here!
   
  I would agree they are a bit over priced
  too bad everybody else doesn't share the marantz hate, would make it cheaper for me.
   
  but overrated?
  blasphemy!





   
  to my ears/tastes/setup Sansui is the one i don't like as much.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> buncha marantz haters in here!
> 
> I would agree they are a bit over priced
> too bad everybody else doesn't share the marantz hate, would make it cheaper for me.
> ...


 
   
  I do like the blue lights


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Hi everyone, I was wondering if I could get some advice. I have a Marantz 2245 receiver (lol some hate going on here makes asking about this intimidating).  
   
  I have been getting intermittent static from this receiver on and off. Sometimes I'll turn it on and it sounds perfect for an hour or two. Suddenly static goes off for a few seconds in both channels. Sometimes this lasts a few seconds, sometimes a few minutes. I have checked other websites out and tried several suggestions such as cleaning the volume pots, cleaning the insides etc. I even sent it to the repair shop twice where they replaced/restored old pieces, re-capped and cleaned it up some more on the first visit. Second visit I sent it in for them to specifically solve the problem but the issue still persists.
   
  My question then is whether having the receiver close to my computer equipment can possibly cause this intermittent scratchy static sound? I've tried many things to get the Marantz fixed up and I have a power conditioner to make sure the problem isn't coming from my apartment. So my last idea is possibly that the computer and router equipment may be causing this. I don't get this issue from any other amp I plug into my computer though.

 Thanks!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Does it do it on all inputs or only AM/FM?


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Does it do it on all inputs or only AM/FM?


 
  Sorry I forgot to mention that. I have only tested this on Aux and Tape settings and scratchy static comes out on both. I actually haven't tried the radio AM/FM yet. I am using my computer as a source so the chain is: Computer --> Schiit DAC--> Marantz 2245
   
  Thanks


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ohnoitztotoro said:


> Sorry I forgot to mention that. I have only tested this on Aux and Tape settings and scratchy static comes out on both. I actually haven't tried the radio AM/FM yet. I am using my computer as a source so the chain is: Computer --> Schiit DAC--> Marantz 2245
> 
> Thanks


 
  OK, you answered my question.  I was wondering if it could be RF interference via the AM/FM.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> buncha marantz haters in here!
> 
> I would agree they are a bit over priced
> too bad everybody else doesn't share the marantz hate, would make it cheaper for me.
> ...


 
  Where's the marantz hate you're speaking about. Both myself and Skylab said we like our marantz. I even commented on how much I like my 2330b which I still own. They are over priced even you said that. We are giving lower priced options in which I think sounds better. That's not being a marantz hater. Many of us own and enjoy our marantz. And I also like them better than both of the sansui's I've own with one of them being a very highly regarded au9900. I even told one person any of the marantz he's looking at would be a big upgrade over what he's using now. Giving other lower priced options don't make you a hater. It's  just simply giving other options.


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> OK, you answered my question.  I was wondering if it could be RF interference via the AM/FM.


 
  Yeah it's odd. Lots of things people have suggested have not alleviated the problem so I'm really confused/sad lol. As much as I want to make this Marantz work, this is becoming quite a stressful venture. Any other possible suggestions from anyone? Do computers and routers cause static symptoms like these if they are in proximity of the receiver?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Where's the marantz hate you're speaking about. Both myself and Skylab said we like our marantz. I even commented on how much I like my 2330b which I still own. They are over priced even you said that. We are giving lower priced options in which I think sounds better. That's not being a marantz hater. Many of us own and enjoy our marantz. And I also like them better than both of the sansui's I've own with one of them being a very highly regarded au9900. I even told one person any of the marantz he's looking at would be a big upgrade over what he's using now. Giving other lower priced options don't make you a hater. It's  just simply giving other options.


 
  You're right, i kinda jumped the gun.  I was sort of trying to do it tongue in cheek.
  Doesn't always work out though.
   
   
  @Ohnoitstoto, the 2245 is hands down my favorite vintage reciever.  To me it would def be worth getting it fixed up, however, this one in particular might not be worth the chase.  
  with headphones the only other vintage amp that i've had that seemed to be on the same level to my ears was the Kenwood KR 9050.  But its just all about tastes.  don't let this one bad unit consume all your time, stress and funds.


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> @Ohnoitstoto, the 2245 is hands down my favorite vintage reciever.  To me it would def be worth getting it fixed up, however, this one in particular might not be worth the chase.
> with headphones the only other vintage amp that i've had that seemed to be on the same level to my ears was the Kenwood KR 9050.  But its just all about tastes.  don't let this one bad unit consume all your time, stress and funds.


 
  Thanks for your input. I do love this receiver when it behaves but those moments are very far and apart sometimes despite all my efforts to get it fixed up. If I ever find another 2245 for cheap that I can try to restore in the future I might give it a try, but for now maybe I should stick with more reliable and new equipment to power my headphones lol.


----------



## PhoenixG

About the scratchy static - it sounds kind of like you're describing radio interference from a cell phone. I'm not totally sure though from your description. Does the "static" have a pattern, or is it just randomly appearing white noise? If it's completely white noise, then it could be a preamp issue.
   
  Also - I absolutely LOVE the blue lights on my Kenwood KR-9600. It is so nice to look at when it's on that I had to really debate my decision to list it for sale. I just WANT it to sound better than my SX-1980, even though it's just a little warm.


----------



## parbaked

That SX-1980 is a fine beast, hard to beat.


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> About the scratchy static - it sounds kind of like you're describing radio interference from a cell phone. I'm not totally sure though from your description. Does the "static" have a pattern, or is it just randomly appearing white noise? If it's completely white noise, then it could be a preamp issue.
> 
> Also - I absolutely LOVE the blue lights on my Kenwood KR-9600. It is so nice to look at when it's on that I had to really debate my decision to list it for sale. I just WANT it to sound better than my SX-1980, even though it's just a little warm.


 
  Thanks, I actually considered my cell phone so I always have it a good couple feet away from my Marantz. The static has no pattern whatsoever to the point that it is extremely hard to reproduce the problem when I try to show it at a repair shop lol. I've considered the possibility of my computer or router causing the issue too but I can't tell for sure. The static is as you said, random.


----------



## harrinj

just asking. were receivers in the 70's/80's dead quiet like today's, or is the small hum normal? my harman kardon 430 has a horrible hum on all inputs and settings but the phono input has it the worst and Treble knob really makes it bad. The KR-7400 has a small but noticable hum with my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm and AKG K702. I really like these vintage receivers, they make the drivers in my headphones actually move and produce wonderful sound unlike modern stuff I have like Nuforce icon HDP/UDH-100/Schiit Valhalla.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> About the scratchy static - it sounds kind of like you're describing radio interference from a cell phone. I'm not totally sure though from your description. Does the "static" have a pattern, or is it just randomly appearing white noise? If it's completely white noise, then it could be a preamp issue.
> 
> Also - I absolutely LOVE the blue lights on my Kenwood KR-9600. It is so nice to look at when it's on that I had to really debate my decision to list it for sale. I just WANT it to sound better than my SX-1980, even though it's just a little warm.


 
   
  What... wait, you might be selling your SX-1980? We gotta talk!


----------



## Argybargy

harrinj said:


> just asking. were receivers in the 70's/80's dead quiet like today's, or is the small hum normal? my harman kardon 430 has a horrible hum on all inputs and settings but the phono input has it the worst and Treble knob really makes it bad. The KR-7400 has a small but noticable hum with my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm and AKG K702. I really like these vintage receivers, they make the drivers in my headphones actually move and produce wonderful sound unlike modern stuff I have like Nuforce icon HDP/UDH-100/Schiit Valhalla.



Your HK 430 is probably around 40 years old. If the main filter caps are original you are probably hearing the transformer and the big caps are bad.


----------



## Argybargy

Even after a complete recap vintage receivers can have slight hiss or background noise due to old diodes and transistors. However if you use low sensitivity phones like orthos, you can get a silent black background.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> Your HK 430 is probably around 40 years old. If the main filter caps are original you are probably hearing the transformer and the big caps are bad.


 
  everything is original. it was my parents and lightly used. it was bought in the 70's so yes 40 years or more. I have been debating on taking it in to get fixed. it's got wonderful sound minus the buzz/hum. I've sprayed deoxit over everything and cleaned everything up fine/replaced fuses but it did not help.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *harrinj*
> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> everything is original. it was my parents and lightly used. it was bought in the 70's so yes 40 years or more. I have been debating on taking it in to get fixed. it's got wonderful sound minus the buzz/hum. I've sprayed deoxit over everything and cleaned everything up fine/replaced fuses but it did not help.


 
  This is a typical repair list that is required for a 40 year old receiver/amplifier that has not been abused:
   
All controls and switches have been cleaned and lubed.
All electrolytic capacitors have been replaced on all boards. (Caps for Filtering=NichiconPW/Signal Path=Silmic II)
Any transistor that has been noted for being problematic has been replaced with new matching spec transistors.
The power light has been replaced.
Bias and offset have been set to factory specs.
Main filter caps were replaced with Panasonic THA Computer grade caps
There were 10 tantalum caps that can go noisy that were removed and replaced with Elna Silmic II
Please see the pic of all the components that have been replaced.
The 2 small caps on the protection board were replace with Panasonic ECW polyprop. film caps.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> This is a typical repair list that is required for a 40 year old receiver/amplifier that has not been abused:
> 
> [size=13.0pt]All controls and switches have been cleaned and lubed.[/size]
> [size=13.0pt]All electrolytic capacitors have been replaced on all boards. (Caps for Filtering=NichiconPW/Signal Path=Silmic II)[/size]
> ...


 
  yea the first one has been done more than once. the rest I cannot do. I will have to take it somewhere to get this done. I am afraid it will lose it's good sound though. what do you think?


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> yea the first one has been done more than once. the rest I cannot do. I will have to take it somewhere to get this done. I am afraid it will lose it's good sound though. what do you think?


 
  If cleaning doesn't work then you have to start replacing the 40 year old parts that are known to go bad or are tested bad.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ohnoitztotoro said:


> Thanks, I actually considered my cell phone so I always have it a good couple feet away from my Marantz. The static has no pattern whatsoever to the point that it is extremely hard to reproduce the problem when I try to show it at a repair shop lol. I've considered the possibility of my computer or router causing the issue too but I can't tell for sure. The static is as you said, random.


 
   
  Have you tried just shutting down all computers, routers, phones, etc.?  Just to see if it still happens.  Process of elimination....
   
  That said I have seen this happen with both failing transistors and failing capacitors.  Can be hard to find out which one is doing it.  Sometimes cooling/heating a component will make it stop or start.  If a capacitor is starting to fail sometimes it will just discharge all of a sudden or a transistor can start to oscillate.  But as you know, the question is which one?   Sorry I can't be more helpful.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What... wait, you might be selling your SX-1980? We gotta talk!


 
  Sorry - The KR-9600 won the battle on looks but lost the war for shelf space and is for sale instead.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Can anyone tell me if the KOSS ESP6 HP is any good?  There is a pair on CL near me for $25.   Just curious.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Can anyone tell me if the KOSS ESP6 HP is any good?  There is a pair on CL near me for $25.   Just curious.


 
  Ok, got the answer in another forum.  Sounds like it is not a good investment.


----------



## thyironman

Hi everyone!
  Will the headphone out on a Technics SU A900MK2
  drive my 600 ohm dt990's properly?
   
  I have a chance of getting one for free but it means having the thing sent to me from another city, so i'd like to get some advice on the prospects of this combination.


----------



## parbaked

Anybody have any Pioneer Specs? I found these images in an ad to sell custom the racks...


----------



## Silent One

Well, if I didn't fully wake-up the first time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this morning..._ that's some Pioneer glory._


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Anybody have any Pioneer Specs? I found these images in an ad to sell custom the racks...


 
  Wow. If that doesn't make your heart palpitate, I don't know what will.


----------



## PhoenixG

If that kind of thing makes your wallet jump out and say "BUY ONE!" then I have good news - one is up for sale in NW houston on CL http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/3698737332.html . It's not mine, but oh do I wish it were. ~3.5k for the lot. Tempting...

   
  Just saying.


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





thyironman said:


> Hi everyone!
> Will the headphone out on a Technics SU A900MK2
> drive my 600 ohm dt990's properly?
> 
> I have a chance of getting one for free but it means having the thing sent to me from another city, so i'd like to get some advice on the prospects of this combination.


 
  To answer your question, almost certainly but since I haven't heard that combo I can't be 100% sure. That's a little newer amp than most talked about here but if you can get it for free and it's working properly, I'd say go for it. Even if you had to pay shipping costs, that's a great deal.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Wow. If that doesn't make your heart palpitate, I don't know what will.


 
  Yes, one could politically incorrect and scream NICE RACK!


----------



## jbusuego

So today I decided to take some nude pics 
   
  Source: Sony S9000es
   

   
   
   

   
  pre amp ONKYO P3060R
  w/o the 15lbs slab

   

  Amp M3060P
   

  fishbone heatsink
   

  all together now with the tuner


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> If that kind of thing makes your wallet jump out and say "BUY ONE!" then I have good news - one is up for sale in NW houston on CL http://houston.craigslist.org/ele/3698737332.html . It's not mine, but oh do I wish it were. ~3.5k for the lot. Tempting...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That would be a helluva way to jump right into vintage with both feet! It's not actually that great a price, in that you could piece that same rig together for less. But the idea of just having it all there in one shot is kinda cool.


----------



## PhoenixG

I think of most CL prices as a starting point anyways. It's still a nice looking system.


----------



## Silent One

I thought I was back just in time this afternoon to make preparations for the Men's title game: Louisville & Michigan. Instead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 there's a MAJOR fight underway brewing inside the listening room. A bit of background first. In the past year, I had been saving up furiously for a Black _WooAudio WA5_. I reached my savings goal on 31 March. And this past week, Jack and I have been in talks over how I wanted this new amp _"spec'd"_ out.
   
  Well, today I had an appointment out of town and on my way there I tripped over some vintage iron. Bought it_ Johnny-on-the-spot_; now home 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with it. BUT, I had to use my tube amp money for the solid-state purchase...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, say what?! My thinking is that "Extremely rare" justifies things a bit.
   
  I'm going to name my new amp "Baby sinister!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
   
  Baby needs a bubble bath, no question. Gonna put it in the shop to get it dolled-up & checked up. This pix does not do the amp justice - this amp is really BIG.


----------



## parbaked

^ First to congratulate!
  That "baby" should keep you busy for a while.
  We can't wait to see her when she's all cleaned up!


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, parbaked. I'm not really being impatient if I "Service" shop, am I?




   
  Will call around tomorrow to see which shop could get baby in and out the fastest. Well, barring any problems...


----------



## Rawrbington

holy ****!
  wow
  no freaking way Silent One!?!?!
  how does one just trip over a G22000!!!!!
  and the condition!
  i don't even know what to say
  congratulations i guess.
   
  awesome awesome stuff sir


----------



## moodyrn

That's looks absolutely stunning, and I'm jealous. Congrats on a super duper find!!


----------



## Silent One

I'm always hearing about the G33000 & G22000 being mentioned like ghosts - always reading owners' comments but never having the cash when they come up for sale occasionally. I only had the cash today because it was meant for another amp. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can't tell you how ecstatic I am. I had also been hot on the trail of the Pioneer SX-1980, but will sleep just fine with the Sansui.


----------



## tribestros

Just bought a Marantz 2252B and spent all day cleaning it. Previous owner babied the hell out of it. It's in perfect condition. Middle bulb is out but the thing even lights up bright blue. No scratches, nothing. Best sounding receiver I've ever had and SO MUCH POWER. I find it hard to believe you can do any better for a new or higher end receiver. My 1402 should be ashamed of itself.


----------



## Rawrbington

not  to mention the 2252b 2265b and 2285b are probably the best looking marantz of the 22's
  the all silver front on those is stunning.
   
   
  yeah silent one i think you'll rest just fine with that thing in house.  there's always time down the road for the 1980, and after that a 2600


----------



## wotts

SO, that is amazing. I just yelled "oh my crap!!". I have been looking for one or the 1980.
   
  Congrats, man - that's hot.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> not  to mention the 2252b 2265b and 2285b are probably the best looking marantz of the 22's
> the all silver front on those is stunning.
> 
> 
> yeah silent one i think you'll rest just fine with that thing in house.  there's always time down the road for the 1980, and after that a 2600


 
   
  Shocking, my Pioneer SX-650 looks like a little kid sitting nearby...


----------



## tribestros

I've got some B&Ws hooked up to the thing as well, and it just rocks. I just can't believe the shape it's in. If the bulb wasn't out, it'd looked like the thing just rolled off the assembly line.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats, looks great! Now get you some leds, and you're all set. I put some in my 2330B, and wow, a huge difference. They go perfect with the all silver face. They look better in it than they did in my 2325.


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Congrats, looks great! Now get you some leds, and you're all set. I put some in my 2330B, and wow, a huge difference. They go perfect with the all silver face. They look better in it than they did in my 2325.


 
   
  Already on their way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Glad I didn't spend any money on a headphone amp; I mean, I have a DAC, but the Marantz is an incredible headphone amp. This thing is so loud. I get 1/3rd of the way there and it's already a little too loud for my B&Ws.
   
  The guy I bought it from said that it wasn't ever repaired but the paper seems replaced and the inside was incredibly clean...so I doubt it. What do I need to keep an eye out that goes on these amps?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> I've got some B&Ws hooked up to the thing as well, and it just rocks. I just can't believe the shape it's in. If the bulb wasn't out, it'd looked like the thing just rolled off the assembly line.


 
   
  That thing is clean! Looks like we're back in circa... whatever that year was.


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





silent one said:


> That thing is clean! Looks like we're back in circa... whatever that year was.


 
   
  It was in a vacuum-sealed Space Bag when I bought it. LOL.


----------



## Rawrbington

tribestros said:


> The guy I bought it from said that it wasn't ever repaired but the paper seems replaced and the inside was incredibly clean...so I doubt it. What do I need to keep an eye out that goes on these amps?




I suppose it could just be that clean and unused for the paper.
They usually brown up from the heat of it being on for years.

I'd say probably scratchy staticy knobs and the relay. The relay will present itself as channels left or right randomly dropping out momentarily and then coming back in. 

Really if its been used sparingly that shouldn't be a problem.

Minimizing volume until you hear the relay click to engage is a best practice for preserving it


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> I suppose it could just be that clean and unused for the paper.
> They usually brown up from the heat of it being on for years.
> 
> I'd say probably scratchy staticy knobs and the relay. The relay will present itself as channels left or right randomly dropping out momentarily and then coming back in.
> ...


 
   
  The knobs have some static (very minor) as I switch between inputs. That's about it. 
   
  Hope nothing else presents itself, but the story seemed legit based on the quality of the amp. So think I'll be alright.


----------



## Rawrbington

If you ever part with it I'm not too far up the road in Norman OK. 

You didn't by chance get it from a guy named Gary did ya?


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> If you ever part with it I'm not too far up the road in Norman OK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No, I got it from a guy named Keith at an audio store in Houston who heard me talking to my Aunt about being jealous of a friend's vintage Marantz. I wasn't even planning on buying one over the weekend, but once I saw it, I realized I'd be an idiot to pass it up.
   
  If I ever decide to, you'll be the first to know! (Sorry but not likely, though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  You a Sooner?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> SO, that is amazing. I just yelled "oh my crap!!". I have been looking for one or the 1980.
> 
> Congrats, man - that's hot.


 
   
  Yeah, you know how the laws of the universe work sometimes. All my gear gets boxed up for the move and then I find 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




what I'm looking for? Currently, just sitting in the garage. Tomorrow, will call around and see where I can drop it off. On my listening to it for the first time in my system, this could take a while...


----------



## Rawrbington

how much does that monster weigh?
 the power unit alone looks to be a solid 50+ pounds!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Silent One* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm going to name my new amp "Baby sinister!"


 
   





 I never even knew such a beast existed.

 Congrats Felix!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> how much does that monster weigh?
> the power unit alone looks to be a solid 50+ pounds!


 
   
  92.8 lbs/42.1 kg. The Preamp feels like it only weighs 15 lbs appx but weighs I believe 35.5 lbs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





silent one said:


> 92.8 lbs/42.1 kg. The Preamp feels like it only weighs 15 lbs appx.


 
  There is a G22000 on my CL right now: http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/3728559867.html


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> I thought I was back just in time this afternoon to make preparations for the Men's title game: Louisville & Michigan. Instead
> 
> 
> 
> ...




HOLY POOP! I go offline for half a day and SO scores a 22000!!!!!

That's awesome, my friend. Big congrats. That's part of the very top echelon of vintage HiFi to be sure. The Pioneer SX-1980, the Marantz 2500 and 2600, and the 'Sui 22000 and 33000. The true monsters.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Skylab. I'm still in hot pursuit of a SX-1980, G-33000 or Technics SA-1000. I saw a '1980' on CL for $875 - got issues. But, I may invest the $75 service fee to see if I'm still interested. And negotiate the price w/applied service fee.


----------



## Oregonian

How's the feeling about Sherwood units?   Specifically a S-8400 that I can get for $110........................


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> How's the feeling about Sherwood units?   Specifically a S-8400 that I can get for $110........................


 
   
  I may be in the minority here, but I prefer the Sherwood sound to just about any other receiver I have heard.  Sorry to say I have not heard the s-8400.  My listening is limited to S-7110, S-7100A, and S-7300.  Lots of warmth, yet with plenty of detail.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> How's the feeling about Sherwood units?   Specifically a S-8400 that I can get for $110........................


 
  The Sherwoods are under rated/valued but condition and required repairs for the specific unit are still as important criteria as the model.
  There are many great sounding vintage amps/receivers and IMO condition of the unit is critical unless you enjoy projects and can do the work. In my experience restored units, of any brand, sell for less than a poor unit and the cost of restoration.


----------



## Pudu

silent one said:


>




Yowza! That beast is ... A BEAST! 

I love the yin/yang, light side/dark side of the force thing it's got going on. It's like it is advertising "I'm capable of great beauty, but also terrible destruction ... so don't push me!"

Congrats man, great find! That is awesome.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Pudu. I haven't moved yet, so I don't really know if I'll have the Preamp/Amp together front & back horizontally or stacked vertically.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

speakerbox said:


> I have a Marantz 2230 in good shape, now recapped, and feel the sound of these units to be highly overrated (recapped or not).  IMHO a lower power Pioneer or Sherwood easily bests it (especially the Sherwood).  I read on AK someone saying that the blue lights on the Marantz units makes people suspend logic (in terms of what they are really hearing).  I think he is absolutely correct.   The advice on looking at the SX650 is good advice.




Not sure I can go there with you that anyone Japanese line from back in the day is better than another. But certainly Marantz is now overrated. Funny thing to watch is the Sansui reputation because back then they were avoided as much as they are sought after today.


----------



## Skylab

"SanSewage" I believe was the term used for them...but mostly by the Pioneer dealers


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





skylab said:


> "SanSewage" I believe was the term used for them...but mostly by the Pioneer dealers


 
  Most of it is personal preference.  For me a lack of detail is a deal breaker - but to others there are more important issues.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah each one has a unique sound, and have their strengths and weakness. It really comes down to personal preference. Sansui's are the most intriguing brand to me. Each brand do have a particular house sound, but the sansui's I've owned all sounded very different. They all were warm, but that's where the similarities ended. I think each line within the sansui brand have their own house sound. They can range from dynamic and aggressive to smooth and laid back.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

skylab said:


> "SanSewage" I believe was the term used for them...but mostly by the Pioneer dealers




As I recall, the prejudice may have been political as much as anything. Sansui was the brand GIs came home with and the animosity towards them was very real unfortunately. I'm not proud of it, but my friends and I were draft age and talked loudly about leaving the country should our numbers come up. Couple that with the market just being flooded with Sansui... every pawn shop, flea market, etc. had them everywhere. I remember looking at one of the huge ones... probably the model Just being discussed/raved about above. I think I wound up taking home a tiny Harmon Kardon and paying MORE for it than I would have the Sansui monster. 

Really, things are no different today. This hobby is so subjective that perception is a huge part of it.


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Not sure I can go there with you that anyone Japanese line from back in the day is better than another. But certainly Marantz is now overrated. Funny thing to watch is the Sansui reputation because back then they were avoided as much as they are sought after today.


 
   
  I definitely disagree with Marantz being overrated. Maybe I'm biased cos I own a fantastic one, (actually two) but they are best in class, I think. I honed in on Marantz because I've heard many of the competitor brands and I felt Marantz blew them away. Also, I wanted a good looker...albeit a very minor part of my decision...it's very subjective.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> I definitely disagree with Marantz being overrated. Maybe I'm biased cos I own a fantastic one, (actually two) but they are best in class, I think. I honed in on Marantz because I've heard many of the competitor brands and I felt Marantz blew them away. Also, I wanted a good looker...albeit a very minor part of my decision...it's very subjective.


 
  Which Marantz units do you have?


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> I definitely disagree with Marantz being overrated. Maybe I'm biased cos I own a fantastic one, (actually two) but they are best in class, I think. I honed in on Marantz because I've heard many of the competitor brands and I felt Marantz blew them away. Also, I wanted a good looker...albeit a very minor part of my decision...it's very subjective.


 
   
  that is the key thing.  the only opinion that matters, is your ears.  not someone else posting on the internet.  
  Marantz is kinda the Klipsch of vintage receivers.
  Pretty polarizing gear.
  A ton of people love them.  Thats why they are both fairly expensive compared to a lot of other stuff from their days.
  And some people strongly dislike them.
  those poor poor deaf souls


----------



## Argyris

Anybody seen one of these?
   
   

   
  Tech Hi-Fi's house brand (or one of them). 1978. 25 wpc, probably made by Nikko (though nobody seems to know for sure). They don't pop up too often, and I have no idea how rare they are. Probably not very, since they go for a song when they do come up for sale. I really like the way it looks, especially the color-changing tuning needle. Soundwise, it might have a bit of a mild U shape but with slightly lifted upper mids--it definitely adds some flavor to the sound.
   
  Sadly, mine's in pretty rough shape. It badly needs a recap, and it might have a sick output transistor. It buzzes like a nest of angry bees (I'm assuming that's AC getting through the filter caps?), and every so often it has a crackling fit, mostly on the right channel (could be that transistor). If I knew how to do any of this, of course I would have done it years ago.


----------



## moodyrn

I think they are slightly over rated only because of the price per watt factor. So more over price than over rated IMO. I've never heard a vintage marantz that didn't sound good. But there are cheaper options that sounds at least as good. When you factor in look and sound, I understand why they go for so much, but that's subjective and depends on the individual. But there are other products from other brands that are over priced as well.


----------



## grokit

I really need to get my old Kenwood integrated going again, it sounded great when it was rolling a few years ago and gave up the ghost. It's got kind of a Leben look to it with the wooden sides. It used to power a multi-zone restaurant speaker system, now it's a brick. It's either the power switch or the power supply I think, I sure hope it's the former! All I really know is that it's not the fuse.


----------



## Argyris

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I really need to get my old Kenwood integrated going again, it sounded great when it was rolling a few years ago and gave up the ghost. It's got kind of a Leben look to it with the wooden sides. It used to power a multi-zone restaurant speaker system, now it's a brick. It's either the power switch or the power supply I think, I sure hope it's the former! All I really know is that it's not the fuse.


 
   
  Which model was it? I've got a KR-6030 that a guy gave me as a gift when he saw me admiring it in his shop (generous fellow, him) that's treated me quite well over the past three years. I might be one of the few living souls who actually likes the look of that line (most people describe them as workhorses and leave it at that), though I like the older (early 70s) blue-dial Kennies a bit more.
   
  I'll just say what you've doubtless already found online: the Kenwood models with the power switch integrated into the speaker select knob are notorious for having that knob fail. Some owners, either proactively or once they get an affected unit working again, just put the receiver on a power strip and turn it on and off using that.


----------



## claybum

There'a a G22000 for sale in Portland.
   
  http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/3730433456.html
   
  I'm not looking to buy at that price but it is interesting to see these monsters come up!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





claybum said:


> There'a a G22000 for sale in Portland.
> 
> http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/3730433456.html
> 
> I'm not looking to buy at that price but it is interesting to see these monsters come up!


 

 Holy................you know what.  $2450 firm.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





argyris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well it's in storage and the research I did on it is in another partition so I'm not sure right now. But it's the same generation as the one below, I would say it's that amp but mine does not say Trio on it.
   

   
  That power strip thing would be my kind of solution, to bypass that part of the rotary switch and hardwire it on... that or a toggle switch hacked into the back somewhere


----------



## claybum

I just had my Marantz 2285b serviced. A few solders redone, dc offset and bias adjusted. Wow! sounds so much better. I get Marantz now. World class for sure. Currently listening to the Marantz and Kenwood integrated. All Pioneers are off the rack for now. I'm sure they will be back


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





claybum said:


> I just had my Marantz 2285b serviced. A few solders redone, dc offset and bias adjusted. Wow! sounds so much better. I get Marantz now. World class for sure. Currently listening to the Marantz and Kenwood integrated. All Pioneers are off the rack for now. I'm sure they will be back


 

 You have any vintage you want to sell, PM me.  I live in Gresham.


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> Holy................you know what.  $2450 firm.




G-22000, Pioneer SX-1980, Marantz 2500 - these all sell for between $2-3K, typically.

And you don't even want to know what a Sansui G-33000 or Marantz 2600 will go for...


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> that is the key thing.  the only opinion that matters, is your ears.  not someone else posting on the internet.
> Marantz is kinda the Klipsch of vintage receivers.
> Pretty polarizing gear.
> A ton of people love them.  Thats why they are both fairly expensive compared to a lot of other stuff from their days.
> ...


 
   
  Didn't realize that Klipsch and Marantz were thought of in the same vein. How so? The way I remember it, Marantz was just another consumer level component electronics manufacturer. Like Pioneer, Kenwood, Sherwood, etc. Klipsch used to make truly unique designs that I could see polarizing folks. I can't see pretty blue lights in that way. I'd love a pretty blue Marantz... just don't want to pay too much of a premium for them. If I'm going to pay a hefty premium for lights, they will be green... pretty green MacIntosh lights.  Now those are worthy of a premium price. For that matter, Tandberg blue might be worth paying for but in fact, they go cheaper because of the goofy connectors.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> You have any vintage you want to sell, PM me.  I live in Gresham.


 
   
   
  I'll keep that in mind.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You mean like the fully restored G33000 that sold for $10K two weeks ago by ClassicAudio?


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





silent one said:


> You mean like the fully restored G33000 that sold for $10K two weeks ago by ClassicAudio?


 
   
  Yup, that's what I mean


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Didn't realize that Klipsch and Marantz were thought of in the same vein. How so? The way I remember it, Marantz was just another consumer level component electronics manufacturer. Like Pioneer, Kenwood, Sherwood, etc. Klipsch used to make truly unique designs that I could see polarizing folks. I can't see pretty blue lights in that way. I'd love a pretty blue Marantz... just don't want to pay too much of a premium for them. If I'm going to pay a hefty premium for lights, they will be green... pretty green MacIntosh lights.  Now those are worthy of a premium price. For that matter, Tandberg blue might be worth paying for but in fact, they go cheaper because of the goofy connectors.


 
  sorry if i was confusing.
  I was trying to point out that those two seem to be products or "house sounds" people either really like, or somewhat strongly dislike. Thats what I was trying to get at with "polarizing".
  obviously they aren't in the same sound vein, nor production vein. 
   
  I wouldn't ever pay a McIntosh premium for Marantz gear either, or McIntosh itself for that matter.
   
   
   
  anybody know what ever happened to the fully refurbed and pretty much flawless 2600 that was on ebay last year with a buy it now price of about 9k?
  do they really end up selling for that, or are they just fishing for something in the neighborhood?


----------



## Silent One

@ Rawrbington
   
  They're getting it!


----------



## Rawrbington

thats just insane.
  a local record store owner had a Marantz 2500 in great condition, but had never been touched.  he was asking 2 grand for it.
  I momentarily blacked out and when i came too i was at the bank trying to pull 12 hundred dollar bills out.  was gonna wave in his face and see if he'd go for it  but my better judgement kicked in and i realized that was not in the budget.
   
   
  i could see how spending a couple grand on something you really want, that will probably be a long while before it pops up again.  but 10k?
  those kinda deals are miles out of my league
   
  maybe i should start playing the power ball again.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> thats just insane.
> a local record store owner had a Marantz 2500 in great condition, but had never been touched.  he was asking 2 grand for it.
> I momentarily blacked out and when i came too i was at the bank trying to pull 12 hundred dollar bills out.  was gonna wave in his face and see if he'd go for it  but my better judgement kicked in and i realized that was not in the budget.
> 
> ...


 

 I think we are all under some kind of Head Fi spell even considering paying the prices they are asking for these old receivers.  I just looked at my local Craigslist and was ssoooooooooooo tempted to call the guy selling a Marantz for $395.  Good price but I DO NOT NEED IT.  My wife would crucify me......................


----------



## Argyris

Oh for the days when this stuff would turn up in Salvation Army or Goodwill for $100 or so. That would have last been the case at least ten years ago by now. As usual, I'm late to the party. By the time I started checking my local thrift shops, people had long since caught on and:
   
  a) stopped unloading nice stuff at said thrift shops, and
  b) made sure they knew somebody behind the counter so they got first pickings when stuff did pop up
   
  That, and the Internet changed everything. With Craigslist and eBay, it became a lot easier to list stuff for sale, and people could look stuff up to see if it was worth anything. Before, tracking this stuff down and putting classifieds in the paper would have involved a lot more effort, and clearly the prevailing attitude was that this old metal and wooden junk was obsolete ("Look! My BPC home theater in a box has six speakers! That's better than two! Plus, they're tiny, so that means they're more advanced-like! And the box says so, and so did the salesman, so it must be true!") and therefore worthless.
   
  If I were only ten years older....


----------



## Silent One

With the Sansui G-33000, two things are at work:
   
  1. Audiophile/collector interest pushing demand higher.
  2. Relatively few were produced.


----------



## Skylab

There is no audiophile rationale to spending $10k for a G-33000 when you can get the 22000 for $2k. Pure collector play, IMHO.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With the Sansui G-33000, two things are at work:
> 
> 1. Audiophile/collector interest pushing demand higher.
> 2. Relatively few were produced.


 
  3. BIGGER is BETTER!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ...says the man with the 20 wpc Pioneer


----------



## moodyrn

And 10,000 would get you a very nice modern ss or tube amp that's probably better and will last for years to come with no unobtainium parts.


----------



## frank2908

I guess in the beginning only one brand of vintage amp/receiver is sought after,say Mcintosh. Then they it becomes soo expensive ppl switch to Marantz, same thing happens to Pioneer. In a few year ppl cannot afford a good piece of vintage gear anymore .last week i got a Marantz 2226b for $300 but then return it bcos the phono broken,and luckily got a sansui au20000 for just 500 as sansui is not as trendy. My point is: blame the game, not the amp.


----------



## frank2908

I must clarify that Sansui is not (yet) as trendy as Marantz or pioneer here in Vietnam


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> There is no audiophile rationale to spending $10k for a G-33000 when you can get the 22000 for $2k. Pure collector play, IMHO.


 
   
  Absolutely, the amps are largely identical. Being broke on the sideline most of the time, has allowed me to witness collectors watching and studying audiophiles. The phrase_ "Shooting fish in a barrel"_ comes to mind...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





argyris said:


> Tech Hi-Fi's house brand (or one of them). 1978. 25 wpc, probably made by Nikko (though nobody seems to know for sure). They don't pop up too often, and I have no idea how rare they are. Probably not very, since they go for a song when they do come up for sale. I really like the way it looks, especially the color-changing tuning needle. Soundwise, it might have a bit of a mild U shape but with slightly lifted upper mids--it definitely adds some flavor to the sound.


 
   
  It's probably rare -- but without some spark of interest to get word of mouth out there and build some interest, it will never get collectible and see its prices escalate. There are dozens if not hundreds of integrateds and receivers that fall in this category.
   
  Of course, if you refurbish it and praise it to high heavens on all the usual audio boards, I'm sure that would change.
   
  Quote: 





argyris said:


> Oh for the days when this stuff would turn up in Salvation Army or Goodwill for $100 or so.


 
   
  Or picked up for $7 and a plea to get it out of the basement while an estate sale winds down. Or found intact in a recycle bin.
   
  I've witness these things happen, um, first hand. So to speak.


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





claybum said:


> There'a a G22000 for sale in Portland.
> 
> http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/3730433456.html
> 
> I'm not looking to buy at that price but it is interesting to see these monsters come up!


 
  I'm not positive but I think he's previously had that for sale. I can't imagine there's a big market for a vintage amp at those prices. But since he says he's in no hurry to sell it, he can wait for the right buyer to run across it.


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I thought I was back just in time this afternoon to make preparations for the Men's title game: Louisville & Michigan. Instead
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  wow!!!! i cold not imagine it in my dreams!!!
  love "Baby sinister!"
  please give some more pic  back and front


----------



## TekeRugburn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I thought I was back just in time this afternoon to make preparations for the Men's title game: Louisville & Michigan. Instead
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  OMG.... that is a thing of beauty my friend.  I haven't even seen one in real life yet.  Gotta love those random lifetime deals.  Reminds me of how I got my SX1980.
   
  Before I went to off to med school, my mom invited a fellow doc she works with and his family.  Which of course meant his wife and brat of son.  We were the same age and I always despised the guy.... had a real sense of entitlement.  Always been a pretty frugal guy, thats how my mom raised me, and he always gave me crap about buying things used or second hand.  Well we were in my old room and i was searching on CL and saw an ad about a "broken yamaha receiver" for $25.  It didn't have a picture, specs or model number in the ad.  Text the guy and he said that the cord got chopped off during the move from Dallas to Oklahoma and he just got it last year.  He was just down the road a bit so I went there (with the brat since he wanted to come) and saw it a decently specded receiver that had hdmi pass through and all that.  So I asked him, "anything else wrong with it"?  He said, "no, not that i know of".  Figured I'd take the chance for $25 bucks for a pretty damn good receiver.   Just when I was about to hand him the money he said, "you want some speakers too? Just bought a new receiver/speaker. blu-ray player bundle combo.  Never used CL before and I don't want to post another ad for them.  I said what kind and how much?  Don't really know the brand, my brother pieced this set together but add another $25 and they're yours". Low and behold, they're some athena WS series speakers a ws60 and 4 ws15's.  Couldn't believe my luck as I had WS100's from when comp usa closed out.  Handed him 50 and was on my merry way.  Got home, went to the attic, chopped off a plug from some old lamp....soldered it on and it powered right up.  Needless to say the guy was envious about the receiver and speakers saying "I only have this POS old pioneer my uncle gave me; it doesn't even do surround sound!".  Interested but didn't want to sound like I was I slip in, "can't be that bad; how old is it?"  Replies"dunno, but its silver and has WOOD!  Really Wood? ".  This is when my interest peaked....told him that since I just got this receiver i'd trade him my older yamaha receiver for his pos one.  He jumped on the chance; borrowed his dad's car and we left for his house with my old receiver in tow.  Go to his room and in the corner, on the floor with his ps3 on it and   dried red goo next to a fallen over cup layed a sx1980.  Had a face like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but my insides were like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Handed him the old receiver.... helped me move the thing as it's heavy as crap!!!!!  There were some scratches on top and side and the red goo came pretty close to the topside vents all the while hoping nothing spilled inside.  As soon as they left I inspected the thing, cleaned it up the best I could.  Opened her up... used a little deoxit, plugged her in and it powered on to its glory.  Mostly worked as far as I could tell some noise and scratches could be heard and a couple bulbs were out.  Brought it to my electronics repair guy; he nearly fell over when I brought it to him....  he replaced a few a things and put in LED's.   That was my 2nd best CL deal ever.... Oh how I miss the thing; its in safe keeping back at home while im stuck in NY.  Nothing like good ole SS raw power.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Or picked up for $7 and a plea to get it out of the basement while an estate sale winds down. Or found intact in a recycle bin.
> 
> I've witness these things happen, um, first hand. So to speak.


 
  Amen.  I got my Kenwood KR-9600 and the JBL L100 speakers for $20 for the lot about 11 years ago. Yard sale. They agreed when I said they should be cheaper because they were heavy...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





99-1 said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Next week, I'm dropping the amp off to the Stereo Doctor for spa treatment (rehab?). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will shoot a handful of pix when I get my hands up around its neck once again. 4 days, 4 weeks or 4 months... no idea.


----------



## Argyris

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Next week, I'm dropping the amp off to the Stereo Doctor for spa treatment (rehab?).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'd love to see some pictures of the insides, too, though I can understand if you wouldn't want to take it all apart just for that (especially once you've had it serviced).


----------



## BearWant

Hi all,
   
New to this thread, but have been lurking.  Thanks to you guys I cleaned up my father's NAD 7750 with some deoxite and it sounds great paired with my he-500s and the ODAC.  It's surprisingly dead silent especially after being stowed away for some time (except for some remaining scratchiness in the balance control).  I have not done any other restorations or calbrations even though it probably could benefit.
   
Anyway, I'm contemplating going getting some speakers, as well as maybe adding a turntable.  I frequently am popping into salvation army and checking craiglist.  I just ran into this guy http://annapolis.craigslist.org/ele/3736632976.html .  Its the Kenwood Nine G.  I don't necessarily need it, but its so pretty and rated at 80 wpc.  In addition he is offering the a Technics SL-B20 turntable and  2 Kenwood KL-777S speakers.  What are your thoughts for $150.  It seems he is negotiable too.
   
I didn't see a whole lot of input in this thread regarding this receiver.  Anyone have insight?


----------



## claybum

Folks over at audiokarma seen to think the kenwood nine G is a very good unit. $150 seems very fair for the lot. I don't know anything about that turntable and I doubt those speakers are anything special. Search audiokarma for more info.


----------



## BearWant

Yes I did do some poking around there.  It sounds like the turntable is entry level and the speakers are of the Kabuki variety which are known for being loud, but the general consensus is not too impressive sounding.


----------



## Argyris

Ah, Kabuki speakers. That description always makes me smile. Reminds me of the time I used to spend on AK. They collect receivers, integrated, and separates the way a lot of folks here collect headphones, except of course there's at least several orders of magnitude difference in the amount of space such a collection of hi-fi equipment would take up. The term WAF is thrown around a lot more over there than here on Head-Fi on account of that.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





tekerugburn said:


> OMG.... that is a thing of beauty my friend.  I haven't even seen one in real life yet.  Gotta love those random lifetime deals.  Reminds me of how I got my SX1980.
> 
> Before I went to off to med school, my mom invited a fellow doc she works with and his family.  Which of course meant his wife and brat of son.  We were the same age and I always despised the guy.... had a real sense of entitlement.  Always been a pretty frugal guy, thats how my mom raised me, and he always gave me crap about buying things used or second hand.  Well we were in my old room and i was searching on CL and saw an ad about a "broken yamaha receiver" for $25.  It didn't have a picture, specs or model number in the ad.  Text the guy and he said that the cord got chopped off during the move from Dallas to Oklahoma and he just got it last year.  He was just down the road a bit so I went there (with the brat since he wanted to come) and saw it a decently specded receiver that had hdmi pass through and all that.  So I asked him, "anything else wrong with it"?  He said, "no, not that i know of".  Figured I'd take the chance for $25 bucks for a pretty damn good receiver.   Just when I was about to hand him the money he said, "you want some speakers too? Just bought a new receiver/speaker. blu-ray player bundle combo.  Never used CL before and I don't want to post another ad for them.  I said what kind and how much?  Don't really know the brand, my brother pieced this set together but add another $25 and they're yours". Low and behold, they're some athena WS series speakers a ws60 and 4 ws15's.  Couldn't believe my luck as I had WS100's from when comp usa closed out.  Handed him 50 and was on my merry way.  Got home, went to the attic, chopped off a plug from some old lamp....soldered it on and it powered right up.  Needless to say the guy was envious about the receiver and speakers saying "I only have this POS old pioneer my uncle gave me; it doesn't even do surround sound!".  Interested but didn't want to sound like I was I slip in, "can't be that bad; how old is it?"  Replies"dunno, but its silver and has WOOD!  Really Wood? ".  This is when my interest peaked....told him that since I just got this receiver i'd trade him my older yamaha receiver for his pos one.  He jumped on the chance; borrowed his dad's car and we left for his house with my old receiver in tow.  Go to his room and in the corner, on the floor with his ps3 on it and   dried red goo next to a fallen over cup layed a sx1980.  Had a face like
> 
> ...


 
   
  That was impossible to read.  Can I buy a carriage return??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Cool story though!!


----------



## niten

tekerugburn said:


> OMG.... that is a thing of beauty my friend.  I haven't even seen one in real life yet.  Gotta love those random lifetime deals.  Reminds me of how I got my SX1980.
> 
> Before I went to off to med school, my mom invited a fellow doc she works with and his family.  Which of course meant his wife and brat of son.  We were the same age and I always despised the guy.... had a real sense of entitlement.  Always been a pretty frugal guy, thats how my mom raised me, and he always gave me crap about buying things used or second hand.  Well we were in my old room and i was searching on CL and saw an ad about a "broken yamaha receiver" for $25.  It didn't have a picture, specs or model number in the ad.  Text the guy and he said that the cord got chopped off during the move from Dallas to Oklahoma and he just got it last year.  He was just down the road a bit so I went there (with the brat since he wanted to come) and saw it a decently specded receiver that had hdmi pass through and all that.  So I asked him, "anything else wrong with it"?  He said, "no, not that i know of".  Figured I'd take the chance for $25 bucks for a pretty damn good receiver.   Just when I was about to hand him the money he said, "you want some speakers too? Just bought a new receiver/speaker. blu-ray player bundle combo.  Never used CL before and I don't want to post another ad for them.  I said what kind and how much?  Don't really know the brand, my brother pieced this set together but add another $25 and they're yours". Low and behold, they're some athena WS series speakers a ws60 and 4 ws15's.  Couldn't believe my luck as I had WS100's from when comp usa closed out.  Handed him 50 and was on my merry way.  Got home, went to the attic, chopped off a plug from some old lamp....soldered it on and it powered right up.  Needless to say the guy was envious about the receiver and speakers saying "I only have this POS old pioneer my uncle gave me; it doesn't even do surround sound!".  Interested but didn't want to sound like I was I slip in, "can't be that bad; how old is it?"  Replies"dunno, but its silver and has WOOD!  Really Wood? ".  This is when my interest peaked....told him that since I just got this receiver i'd trade him my older yamaha receiver for his pos one.  He jumped on the chance; borrowed his dad's car and we left for his house with my old receiver in tow.  Go to his room and in the corner, on the floor with his ps3 on it and   dried red goo next to a fallen over cup layed a sx1980.  Had a face like
> 
> ...




Fun read.

I still await the day my luck leads me into a similar situation. 
Though it would probably be more likely if I pursued craigslist ads more frequently.


----------



## elrod-tom

Wow...looks like this thread is still going strong.  One of my favorites here or anywhere.  Love the old gear.  Gonna have to take some pics of my Fishers sometime soon...


----------



## TekeRugburn

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> That was impossible to read.  Can I buy a carriage return??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  yeah....now i understand why teacher in HS wanted double spacing haha.
   
  Quote: 





niten said:


> Fun read.
> 
> I still await the day my luck leads me into a similar situation.
> Though it would probably be more likely if I pursued craigslist ads more frequently.


 
   
  Find like that are rare on craigslist...you gotta go to an estate sale, or garage sale in the middle of no where to get the good stuff.


----------



## Skylab

elrod-tom said:


> Wow...looks like this thread is still going strong.  One of my favorites here or anywhere.  Love the old gear.  Gonna have to take some pics of my Fishers sometime soon...




Hi Tom! Haven't seen you in ages. Hope you are well. By all means, please do post your Fisher stuff!

Today I got from Craigslist one of my dream speakers - the Pioneer S-1010. Beryllium ribbon tweeters, Beryllium midrange drivers, and recently refoamed polymer graphite woofer and passive radiator. The real walnut cabinet is also in astounding condition for a 30 year old speaker.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> Wow...looks like this thread is still going strong.  One of my favorites here or anywhere.  Love the old gear.  Gonna have to take some pics of my Fishers sometime soon...


 
   
  Tom! Yeah, you absolutely should!


----------



## Argyris

Quote: 





elrod-tom said:


> Wow...looks like this thread is still going strong.  One of my favorites here or anywhere.  Love the old gear.  Gonna have to take some pics of my Fishers sometime soon...


 
   
  Just one more addition to the chorus. Fisher made some of the most singularly beautiful equipment ever, and I never get tired of seeing it when people post pictures.


----------



## moodyrn

Skylab those look awesome. Didn't know pioneer made speakers with those type of drivers. Tom looking forward to the pics. Which fisher amp do you have?.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Skylab those look awesome. Didn't know pioneer made speakers with those type of drivers. Tom looking forward to the pics. Which fisher amp do you have?.


 
  Congrats Skylab on the new speakers.  I think Pioneer, pioneered the development of Beryllium drivers.  Go look over at the TAD site and they go into the construction process of beryllium drivers that they use in the Reference Ones and the Compact Reference Ones.  tad-labs.com   The CR-1s are the finest speaker I have ever heard in my past 30+ years of being involved in this hobby.  Chris Connaker who runs the ComputerAudiophile.com site uses the CR-1's and Spectral gear as his reference when evaluating new DAC's and other computer audio gear.


----------



## Skylab

​Yup, TAD speakers are awesome, not even sure everyone understands that TAD is Pioneer. I've heard the, several times at audio shows and always come away impressed.

The S-1010's are astonishingly good! They're a massive step up from the HPM-100, or even HPM-1100 - and I like both of those quite a bit.

The other vintage Pioneer I am trying to score are DSS-9's, also Beryllium ribbon tweeters and mids. Hard speakers too come by, mostly because the polymer graphite woofers used, while excellent, were brittle if poked, and the foam surrounds definitely would rot after a while, so alas many of them got tossed in the trash instead of refoamed or having the woofers repaired.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





skylab said:


> ​ Yup, TAD speakers are awesome, not even sure everyone understands that TAD is Pioneer. I've heard the, several times at audio shows and always come away impressed.
> 
> The S-1010's are astonishingly good! They're a massive step up from the HPM-100, or even HPM-1100 - and I like both of those quite a bit.
> 
> The other vintage Pioneer I am trying to score are DSS-9's, also Beryllium ribbon tweeters and mids. Hard speakers too come by, mostly because the polymer graphite woofers used, while excellent, were brittle if poked, and the foam surrounds definitely would rot after a while, so alas many of them got tossed in the trash instead of refoamed or having the woofers repaired.


 
  Awesome is an understatement....


----------



## BigCabDaddy

parbaked said:


> Awesome is an understatement....




Shamolie! I don't even care how those sound. I would just stare in awe and amazement.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

We're talking vintage, right? Check this out: http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/3737681996.html Yes, I'm thinking of getting it, but since I'm tied up at the moment and 75 miles away, I doubt I'll be the first to respond


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> We're talking vintage, right? Check this out: http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/3737681996.html Yes, I'm thinking of getting it, but since I'm tied up at the moment and 75 miles away, I doubt I'll be the first to respond


 
   
  C'mon BigCabDaddy, Cassandra Wilson is depending 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 on you! What's your status with the unit now?


----------



## Silent One

Sansui G-22000 update:
   
  Broke out the iPod for a quick _drive-by_ and this thing got _drive! _Great sound presentation as well. I hit it with some vintage B-52s and for a time there, sittin' all comfy inside the garage, I completely forgot I was in the middle of doing chores.
   
  For my iPod, I normally have the Sik ram din connector going into a mini- 1/8 female>stereo rca's but couldn't locate it. So, even though I went the dirtier route of plugging into the iPod's headphone jack out to stereo rca's, the big Sansui still did it justice. I did find the volume control a bit scratchy (understatement 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ), but once I found the right volume levels all was well.
   
  I haven't even put the bad boy in the shop and I can tell you all now, this amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




is a keeper! Now, if I can just find the same model again reasonably priced, I'll "bridge" 'em & "block" 'em. Though, with headphone listening, I don't really have any power requirements for this config. But, isn't this hobby about having fun?


----------



## frank2908

Help!!!
My sansui au 20000 produces a loud pop on the right speaker when I listened to my turntable. Since then that channel starts to produce loud pops. I tried different source like aux , tuner, and with headphones, the problem is still there. Has this happens to anyone of you? What might went wrong? I sent this back to my seller for guarantee but I doubt he can fix it. I afraid he just clean the circuits then blames the problem is my system if he couldn't fix it. I had a bad experience with another seller, because I use phono and headphones on a Marantz 2226b, he blamed me as "ppl only use receiver for speaker, cd and tuner":O. Therefore I need u guys' opinion to cross check the seller.
P/s at all time my protection light was red. It never turned green.


----------



## monoethylene

When the protection light is always on there is sth. more than just dirty switches. I propose of course not to use the unit anymore when the protection light is on. There maybe sth. wrong with the right driver board. Just a guess. Have you tried to seperate the preamp main amp section and use it with other units. If doing so you can check if the problem is either in the preamp section or the main amp section. Nevertheless it is hard to say whats wrong. 
   
  It would be better maybe to post the issue in the Sansui subforum of Audiokarma..


----------



## tribestros

Hey, on my Marantz, when I turn it on I get a little bit of fuzz out of the left channel that immediately goes away. Something I need to fix/be worried? Sounds immaculate, but that does worry me.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> We're talking vintage, right? Check this out: http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/3737681996.html Yes, I'm thinking of getting it, but since I'm tied up at the moment and 75 miles away, I doubt I'll be the first to respond


 
   
  That's a beautiful unit, good luck! I have some vintage Lansing "end table" speakers from that era and they are fantastic.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> Hey, on my Marantz, when I turn it on I get a little bit of fuzz out of the left channel that immediately goes away. Something I need to fix/be worried? Sounds immaculate, but that does worry me.


 
   
  Don't worry, but know that it will get worse over time until it gets to that point where you have no point but to resolve the issue. I play the same game with hip replacements. Getting old is not for the feint of heart.


----------



## Skylab

Eventually all vintage audio gear will have issues as some part start to go, but the most problematic are electrolytic capacitors, which is why "recaps" are so commonly done. 

But with any unwanted noise, the first order of business is always a complete de-oxit of all switches, pots, and controls.,


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Eventually all vintage audio gear will have issues as some part start to go, but the most problematic are electrolytic capacitors, which is why "recaps" are so commonly done.
> 
> But with any unwanted noise, the first order of business is always a complete de-oxit of all switches, pots, and controls.,


 
   
  Yes, the DeoxIt approach has brought many classic pieces back to life for me.  Awesome stuff!


----------



## moodyrn

I've bought pieces where only one channel worked, but deoxit brought it back to life. I would say a good deoxit once a year is good preemptive maintenance.


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Hi everyone. It might be a little too soon to say but... 
   
  On a few occasions I have come around this thread asking for suggestions due to my Marantz receiver randomly giving off scratchy static sounds and ultimately after many trips to the repair shop and lots of tweaking on my end I had given up on trying to find the problem. However, about a week ago the static practically disappeared. It has come back for maybe 3 seconds on two very quick occasions but aside from that, no static at all. 
   
  This has been baffling me so much. I haven't done anything else but the problem just disappeared? D: Has this ever happened to anyone? I live in an apartment and the sudden self fix made me wonder if the apartment power lines were the culprit but I have a power conditioner to prevent it in the first place. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking too much on it if the receiver is working fine but I'm quite curious what some possible causes might have been.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ohnoitztotoro said:


> Hi everyone. It might be a little too soon to say but...
> 
> On a few occasions I have come around this thread asking for suggestions due to my Marantz receiver randomly giving off scratchy static sounds and ultimately after many trips to the repair shop and lots of tweaking on my end I had given up on trying to find the problem. However, about a week ago the static practically disappeared. It has come back for maybe 3 seconds on two very quick occasions but aside from that, no static at all.
> 
> This has been baffling me so much. I haven't done anything else but the problem just disappeared? D: Has this ever happened to anyone? I live in an apartment and the sudden self fix made me wonder if the apartment power lines were the culprit but I have a power conditioner to prevent it in the first place. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking too much on it if the receiver is working fine but I'm quite curious what some possible causes might have been.


 
  Have you tried just taking the unit to someone else's home and seeing if the same issue rears it head there?


----------



## Ohnoitztotoro

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Have you tried just taking the unit to someone else's home and seeing if the same issue rears it head there?


 
  Unfortunately, no I haven't tried that yet. Maybe something I should try this weekend. Well for now since the problem isn't present maybe I should leave things as is. Just curious if anyone heard of this weird act up before haha.


----------



## Skylab

That sounds so much like a dirty switch or pot - but you had them all cleaned and deoxit treated already, did you not?


----------



## moodyrn

I think I may need to go on vacation more often. Last year while in Orlando I scored a sansui au11000. This time around I'm in the smokies and just scored an absolutely mint, fully restored sansui 9090DB featuring nichicon gold caps. It looks stunning. Pics don't do it justice. 

I'm ecstatic at how good it sounds using my iPhone as a source. Can't wait to get this bad boy back home. It comes from the original owner who has babbied this thing since buying it new, and it shows. With how good it sounds, it has me seriously thinking about at least recapping my other gear. Here's a few pics taken from my phone.


----------



## Argybargy

Nice! Congrats on the find.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice! Congrats. That's a very nice receiver


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thank you for giving me the final nudge. Just using my iphone as a source, I can already say...you were right!!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I think I may need to go on vacation more often. Last year while in Orlando I scored a sansui au11000. This time around I'm in the smokies and just scored an absolutely mint, fully restored sansui 9090DB featuring nichicon gold caps. It looks stunning. Pics don't do it justice.
> 
> I'm ecstatic at how good it sounds using my iPhone as a source. Can't wait to get this bad boy back home. It comes from the original owner who has babbied this thing since buying it new, and it shows. With how good it sounds, it has me seriously thinking about at least recapping my other gear. Here's a few pics taken from my phone.


 

 Awesome find.   How much $$ ?


----------



## moodyrn

450.00


----------



## Skylab

For a fully recapped/restored 9090DB that's an incredibly good deal


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, I think this may be on my Mt Rushmore of prized possessions. This have what the au11000 didn't have. The 11000 was very smooth and refined sounding, but it was too smooth, and too warm as well. The highs were also a little too rolled off for my likening. So I later sold it. The 9090db has that smooth organic sound the 11000 had, but dialed down to just the right amount. It's a little warm, but not overly done. It's not as transparent as my ka907, but still very transparent nonetheless. It strikes the perfect balance between lush, smooth, dynamic, and transparency. 

It also helps that there's not a scratch or mark or even a nick of any kind. It literally looks like something that was made last year as oppose to 30+ years ago. The original owner did a fantastic job taking care of this. I just wished my kenwood looked this good. Now it's time for some LEDs.


----------



## Skylab

For the blue tuning meters and the dial meters you can just snap in the fuze-type LEDs, which I for sure recommend. The function indicators will require soldering to concert to LEDs. 

The most bang for the buck is getting blue LEDs behind the blue meters


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks for the tip. I think I will just leave the solder ones alone. I did that with a marantz 2325 and it was very time consuming. I'll just do the fuse type LEDs.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I think I may need to go on vacation more often. Last year while in Orlando I scored a sansui au11000. This time around I'm in the smokies and just scored an absolutely mint, fully restored sansui 9090DB featuring nichicon gold caps. It looks stunning. Pics don't do it justice.
> 
> I'm ecstatic at how good it sounds using my iPhone as a source. Can't wait to get this bad boy back home. It comes from the original owner who has babbied this thing since buying it new, and it shows. With how good it sounds, it has me seriously thinking about at least recapping my other gear. Here's a few pics taken from my phone.


 
   
  Is it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 edible?! CONGRATS.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks.


----------



## Silent One

So, now S.O. waits! 




   
  Dropped off my G-22000 & SX-D7000 Monday night for servicing. Will have both units "DeoXed" but waiting for a repair assessment. Not sure how much I need/want to put in 'em. I'm excited for both, though.
   
  Anyone know the headphone output of the G-22000? And is the resistance @ 120 Ohms or something else? Thanks.


----------



## grokit

I remember a Speaker Doctor in CA, any affiliation?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I remember a Speaker Doctor in CA, any affiliation?


 
   
  I took my gears to the "Stereo Doctor" (San Ramon). Is this the place you're thinking of? Or is your post directed to another member? shipsupt recommended the place to me and I'm going on 2 years with satisfaction.
   
  Of course, my sabbatical is up and I'm moving back to L.A. in appx 45-60 days, so he might have to ship 'em to me in SoCal.


----------



## grokit

Okay this place was in SoCal. And hopefully they're not!


----------



## Silent One

I need to find a place to have my current and upcoming vintage purchases serviced in SoCal. Will reach out to Sluker tomorrow. And check out your referrals as well, grokit. 
   
  Because I frequent the library right round the corner from him, perhaps we should have a mini-mini-meet inside said library. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 After all, we'll have headphones.


----------



## joehalo

http://dayton.craigslist.org/ele/3734576073.html    Too much?


----------



## joehalo

Kenwood KA-405 and matching KT-413. Pretty cool little amp and tuner.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Kenwood KA-405 and matching KT-413. Pretty cool little amp and tuner.


 
   
   
  Great album by the way..................


----------



## tribestros

Replaced the lamps with some LEDs! Now its got that beautiful trademark Marantz blue. Bought some Deoxit and cleaned most of the entire inside with it (including the pots), using a toothbrush and replaced a few caps. May be Placebo, but I swear it sounds better. A lot better. I managed to not break anything except for the clips (electrical tape saved the day) and somehow scratched the dial area, but whatever, so minor you can't tell. Looks great and now I can just enjoy it without planning on what I need to fix on it!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, a classic album


----------



## Silent One

One of the coolest album covers!


----------



## joehalo

Once I got the turntable, that was the first record I bought. I am amazed how nice it sounds. Donald is simply amazing at what he does.


----------



## frank2908

QUICK IMPRESSION OF SANSUI AU 20000 with my modded Fostex T50rp:
  I had a Hitachi SR804 and brief time with a Marantz 2226B before settling down on this baby.
  I use them out of my Rega p3-24 turntable and my Centrance Dacport.
  WHen I first got the Hitachi, having first heard vintage amp, my impression was WOW, the sound stage is wide, fast and deep bass. Treble was good, as it offered more detail than my Dacport. The midrange was not clearly an upgrade. On the Phono section, I thought it was the fault of my Rega as the soundstage was much smaller than the Dacport, however I get more bass slam. Then I decided to give the Hitachi to my cousin and get the Marantz, it was quite new and look goood.
  The Marantz doest everything better than the Hitachi, excep the same soundstage. The bass was much faster, mid is sweet and smooth ( I thought) and the treble was very much extend. Only then I realised how much rolled off the Hitachi was.I only have a brief time with the phono input because one channel is muted after a few days, but my impression was that the phono compared to aux in was the same as the Hitachi: the phono has less soundstage. Because of the problems, I  refunded them and get the Sansui.
  SANSUI AU20000:
  This amp does everything very well effortlessly. It's like how you would like a girl: beautiful but doesn't look like she's trying hard at all  .Back to the amp: the bass go down LOW, very low. I can hear more textures and deep bass. IT makes drums from my record sounds very real. On my Rega , the slam and speed was ok, a tad slower than the Marantz, but I have an impression that on the Dacport there was not much bass slam, or prat. Maybe the big Sansui is out of the little Dacport league and I need to upgrade my DAC. The midrange was very liquid and smooth, and treble is very fast and extended.From the whole frequency range, there is no sense of brightness or grain. The sound stage is the best part: very very expansive and deep, not wide, but extend to the front as well.
  Conclusion: the Sansui has this very effortless sound and large, deep soundstage that I always love. However there are some very minor issue:there are noise at high volume ( both on headphones and speaker)and the bass could be a little bit faster. 
  Question:On all of those vintage amp, I had to use an transformer to convert 220v to 100v. The Marantz has the least hum. I spoke to an vintage audio seller and he told me to avoid amplifiers that I need to use an transformer because of the hum and noise. Is that true? I am planning to recap my Sansui, would doing so reducing the noise? I read some post on audiokarma that a guy restored his sansui and convert the voltage input, Do I need to do this when I recap the Sansui?
  THanks for reading


----------



## DefQon

Picked up a cheap Marantz PM-32 integrated which was entry to mid level back in the 80's. Drives my LCD2's better than all the Violectric and Burson range I've owned and tried.


----------



## tribestros

Sounds about right. I'd recommend taking it to a vintage shop to get it cleaned up and some parts replaced. Or, if you're a DIY'er, just do it yourself. Buy some Deoxit, canned air, and a cheap toothbrush, and clean the boards carefully.


----------



## tribestros

Sounds about right. I'd recommend taking it to a vintage shop to get it cleaned up and some parts replaced. Or, if you're a DIY'er, just do it yourself. Buy some Deoxit, canned air, and a cheap toothbrush, and clean the boards carefully. These things'll last forever if you take care of them properly. And still sound better than expensive, overpriced headphone amps.


----------



## Argybargy

Try reversing the AC plug and see if some of the noise goes away.

The bass will probably quicken and tighten after you replace the main filter caps.


----------



## duncan1

Frank2908- Its news to me that step down transformers-with STANDARD -mains input winding and STANDARD mains output winding are noisy. If so lots of manufacturers would be out of business and millions of people using them would have a problem.
                   But remember there there are DIFFERENT takes on step-down transformers-all are not equal.
                       I have in my house a 30KW -1/1 isolating transformer bought from a major electronics test gear company used on one of their assembly lines to power test equipment that tested their test equipment that was manufactured . You can imagine they wouldnt live for a second with  a "noisy" transformer.
                        Step-down transformers of any quality have to come up to spec. of the laws of the country they are sold in -As we are dealing in high voltages- low insualtion resulting in death could cost that company millions.
                           The exception here is AUTO -step down transformers -these as the name suggests have only ONE winding -tapped down at various levels- These are DANGEROUS and must be sold ONLY in an EARTHED container as they are indirect contact with the mains. If found otherwise then -report to authorities- If I sound strict its because I know people who have died from them.
                               So normal step-downs are not noisy.
                                    Unless CONTAINING _electrolytic filters that could be OLD.
                                       Next post is a point on earths.


----------



## duncan1

A lot of time is spent  talking about earth returns and yes there should be only ONE earth loop.
                      BUT here we are talking about EQUIPMENT earth[from one unit to another]
                             It may NOT have struck some people but MAINS earths are VERY noisy with HF / LF noise /distortion.             While I am not suggesting/approving that you do this -and take NO responsibility for any mishaps.
                                 If your equipment is VERY sensitive  then you could run it without an earth- YES I know -bad advice.                         BUT it will reduce your noise floor a bit- Taking into account you already have NO problems with earth loops.  For those with a garden run an heavy copper earth wire into the garden attach it to a copper spike and bury it vertically at least 3FT down in the soil and make sure the ground isn't always dry.
                                       Your earth then will be superior to the electric company.
                                          I also realize that in the US some electric companies use only a live wire and the negative is connected to ground   But that is up to you to try as I live in the UK which has a negative return[which eventually goes to earth] .I have been running mine for years without  an earth with no problem.
                                         There again I have a high body resistance to high voltage otherwise I would have died long ago.-Lived through 240V AC/600V  DC and yes several from working on the -727-11. 
                                            If you have fine moist skin- do not take any  chances!
                                              You can check your body resistance with a meter-dry your hands first!


----------



## Silent One

"The Forecast"
   
  When I get my hands on that G-22000 again, the forecast may call for some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 _Heavy Weather. _I'm gonna put the amp through its paces and hit it with a wide variety of tracks from Weather Report... can't wait!


----------



## PhoenixG

The last parts came in today for my pioneer HPM-150's. They were included as a throwaway from the guy I got my SX-1980 from. The woofers were missing and a tweeter was blown out. Essentially they were only half complete. I know it's a sacrilege to talk about speakers on a headphone page, but I have to say one thing - it is clear why these items were originally bought together. The sound is flawless. Clear highs and mid, full bass. I can't turn them up more than 1/4th of the way to their rated power and stay in the same room.
   
  I was going to sell them, but I think I will keep them and sell something else instead now, haha. 
   
  I have the same setup as this guy 
  Pioneer somehow still makes the woofers, so I got a little lucky.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> The last parts came in today for my pioneer HPM-150's. They were included as a throwaway from the guy I got my SX-1980 from. The woofers were missing and a tweeter was blown out. Essentially they were only half complete. I know it's a sacrilege to talk about speakers on a headphone page, but I have to say one thing - it is clear why these items were originally bought together. The sound is flawless. Clear highs and mid, full bass. I can't turn them up more than 1/4th of the way to their rated power and stay in the same room.
> 
> I was going to sell them, but I think I will keep them and sell something else instead now, haha.
> 
> ...




I can relate. I just bought a "semi vintage" (early 90's) Yamaha receiver and NS-4 speakers as a pair for very cheap, and the sound of those old speakers is phenomenal! Real sweet sound and clarity beyond belief.


----------



## DefQon

tribestros said:


> Sounds about right. I'd recommend taking it to a vintage shop to get it cleaned up and some parts replaced. Or, if you're a DIY'er, just do it yourself. Buy some Deoxit, canned air, and a cheap toothbrush, and clean the boards carefully. These things'll last forever if you take care of them properly. And still sound better than expensive, overpriced headphone amps.


can service it myself if something goes wrong but seriously was blown away by the quality parts used in a 20+ year old amp. No leaks nothing the ElNA Silmics in there should last another 5 years easy but I do plan on a few mods up my sleeve as well as recapping the standard ELNA audio caps in the amp.


----------



## Skylab

PhoenixG that is one SWEET setup!!!


----------



## vid

Posted this in another thread, but this thread might be more apt in this case.
   
  Anyone recognize the above pattern of harmonic distortion (the 3rd basically looks like an offset copy of the 2nd) and what might potentially cause it? The plot is of headphones driven from the phone out of an '80s integrated amp. When measured out of another amp, the distortion plot for those phones looks more agreeable, i.e. 3rd is lower than 2nd and the two don't look identical.


----------



## duncan1

The higher distortion is exactly at the frequency of the human ear that it is most sensitive to.
                         Which isnt good. \even a valve amp usually has those peak frequencies at a lower level.
                               If SS then check the bias current at the output--may be underbiased- or the coupling caps need replaced/ input cap  IF electrolytic. 
                                   There are other  things it could be but thats a start.
                                            Have you got a link to circuit diagram?


----------



## vid

If by bias current you mean the DC offset, it checked out ok about six months ago (-3.2/-9.5 mV). I'm not sure if the sound problem existed back then or not - I'll see about remeasuring the offset this evening.
   
  The thing is, the distortion problem seems to only occur if I have the input into CD/AUX - and even then this problem only started late last year or so and that input worked fine until then. TUNER and TAPE/EXT still give good sound; the graph below was measured with the same phones having the source plugged into TAPE.
   

   
  That's about how they measure from a modern headphone amp as well, so it should indicate that there's no problem. Plugging the input back into CD/AUX still gives high distortion figures.
   
  There's a service manual for this model at http://hifiengine.com/library/technics/su-300.shtml. I've looked over the diagrams a few times but to me it just seems like CD/AUX goes into the same place as e.g. TAPE/EXT. So maybe the input itself is having problems and not so much the amp?


----------



## tribestros

Need some help guys.
   
  Marantz 2252b on a Panamax MR4000.
   
  A light hum that doesn't change based on the volume, but only with headphones.
   
  Thought it was a ground loop. Definitely not.
   
  Still sounds great, but this is a little annoying.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> Need some help guys.
> 
> Marantz 2252b on a Panamax MR4000.
> 
> ...


 
  Have you tried reversing the plug from the Marantz going into the Panamax?


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Have you tried reversing the plug from the Marantz going into the Panamax?


 
   
  Yeah, I did. Does it both ways. I thought the Panamax was screwed up, but I plugged it into a regular power strip and it still was there.
   
  Actually, I can hear it with or without headphones. ******* it.


----------



## duncan1

VID I dont mean the off-set I means the current through the output devices. But if it is happening only in one input it wont  be that.


----------



## duncan1

Speakerbox -If the light hum doesnt change with the volume  it could be a power supply smoothing problem.
                          or even a decoupling cap in the amp itself. or something simple like corrosion on the input sockets giving a HR earth.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> Speakerbox -If the light hum doesnt change with the volume  it could be a power supply smoothing problem.
> or even a decoupling cap in the amp itself. or something simple like corrosion on the input sockets giving a HR earth.


 
  It would definitely drive me nuts until I figured out what was causing the problem.


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> It would definitely drive me nuts until I figured out what was causing the problem.


 
   
  It is driving me nuts. It's barely noticeable on speakers (like barely noticeable AT ALL), though. Quite noticeable on headphones, though.


----------



## Skylab

Could be lots of things, unfortunately, from just needing something cleaned, to maybe the main filter caps starting to fail.

Has it has a complete deoxit treatment?


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Could be lots of things, unfortunately, from just needing something cleaned, to maybe the main filter caps starting to fail.
> 
> Has it has a complete deoxit treatment?


 
   
  I just did a deoxit treatment on the top board, I didn't take it apart. I'm not confident enough. We have a really good vintage audio store in the area that I might as well take it to.


----------



## Skylab

The 2252b is a nice receiver, it's worth getting it looked at if they don't charge an exorbitant amount.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> I just did a deoxit treatment on the top board, I didn't take it apart. I'm not confident enough. We have a really good vintage audio store in the area that I might as well take it to.


 
  Do you mean you sprayed DeoxIt on a circuit board?


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Do you mean you sprayed DeoxIt on a circuit board?


 
   
  No, haha, I didn't do it on the circuit boards. That's a recipe for disaster. And I didn't use the lubricant one, anyway.
   
  Dude quoted me $90 for a tune up.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Just checking


----------



## tribestros

I unplugged everything. Even the table.Still there. ARGH.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> No, haha, I didn't do it on the circuit boards. That's a recipe for disaster. And I didn't use the lubricant one, anyway.
> 
> Dude quoted me $90 for a tune up.


 
   
  I wouldn't call it a recipe for disaster. It's just a waste of contact cleaner. The only useful places to spray it are pots, switches, and sockets.
   
  $90 could be a reasonable price depending on what's involved in the tune-up. I'm used to seeing $40-60 just for a bench fee (test, diagnose, and prepare an estimate without replacing or repairing anything).


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I wouldn't call it a recipe for disaster. It's just a waste of contact cleaner. The only useful places to spray it are pots, switches, and sockets.
> 
> $90 could be a reasonable price depending on what's involved in the tune-up. I'm used to seeing $40-60 just for a bench fee (test, diagnose, and prepare an estimate without replacing or repairing anything).


 
   
  I've already replaced the bulbs and cleaned most of the inside of dust. He's located decently far away and I live in Denton so it's a bit of a hassle, honestly. I'll probably call him tomorrow and see if I can get a more solid quote.


----------



## vid

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> VID I dont mean the off-set I means the current through the output devices. But if it is happening only in one input it wont  be that.


 
   
  Thanks for your input still. Need to open the case one day and see what's going on.


----------



## GoldfishX

Assistance requested...Apologies in advance for the n00bness with vintage equipment.
   
  My current set-up for my home stereo is a Marantz SA-8004 hooking into a vintage Kenwood KR-9400 (monster receiver). I have low end Technics speakers hooked into the Kenwood. I also use the headphone jack directly on the Kenwood a lot. Headphones are more important than speakers at this point.
   
  Simply put, using this rig as a starting point, what can make this sound better? I have plenty of power with the Kenwood, as I cannot even turn the volume knob up 1/4 of the way without going deaf or shaking the house, but the sound quality is not the best. I am getting plenty of detail from the Marantz, but it lacks warmth/depth and the soundstage is poor especially on headphones. I was able to sample the Marantz player through a couple McIntosh preamps at a store and it produced fantastic, spaciouos sound through headphones.
   
  Would I be better off using the Kenwood as a preamp and buying a dedicated power amp with a headphone jack (it has nice EQ controls)? Or vice versa...buying a preamp and using the Kenwood as the power amp? Would the latter help headphone listening? The low end speakers do produce good sound and I am dying to upgrade to something better, but the headphone output from the Marantz is far better than the headphone output on the Kenwood and that doesn't quite seem right.
   
  At this point, I am not fully understanding how the Kenwood fits into the preamp/power amp equation. I know I want to use it somewhere, but not sure how to get maximum usage out of it. Would it make sense to get a second receiver and use that as the power amp (pre-amped by the Kenwood?).
   
  Lastly, I am mostly looking at used vintage gear. Am looking for good price for performance (around $300 or so, more if something good is available).
   
  Thank you!
   
  And just as an aside...The KR-9400 is one sexy, beast of a machine! I love it!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Assistance requested...Apologies in advance for the n00bness with vintage equipment.
> 
> My current set-up for my home stereo is a Marantz SA-8004 hooking into a vintage Kenwood KR-9400 (monster receiver). I have low end Technics speakers hooked into the Kenwood. I also use the headphone jack directly on the Kenwood a lot. Headphones are more important than speakers at this point.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think the 9400 is a fairly well regarded piece.  My guess would be that it could benefit from a recap and an overall health check.  You could also look over at the AK site and see what other 9400 owners have done with them. If it were me I don't think I would give up on it right away.


----------



## GoldfishX

Haha, I am not giving up on it...I love it too much. I'm just trying to get the most out of it, but it is hard to do without understanding the preamp/power amp relationship. I don't want to start linking components at random...I feel like this thing could potential blow up a lesser amp if I used it as a preamp! The lights already flicker when I just switch it on.
   
  It is indeed due for a tune-up though. It had some crackling in the right channel, but it has gone away. I'm assuming it was just just dust.


----------



## SpeakerBox

If it were mine - at a minimum I would treat all switches and pots with DeoxIt and replace all the electrolytic capacitors.  Have a Marantz 2230 that I was able to cleanup some high frequency harshness by using Deoxit on the push button switches.  You would also want to give it a good cleaning.


----------



## Skylab

It would help to know what headphones you are using.

Definitely clean all the pots and switches with deoxit. That's always a must with vintage gear.


----------



## GoldfishX

I am currently using a set of Grado SR-80's (I also used these to test the Marantz player hooked to the McIntosh preamp at the high end store). So my concern is based on an apples - to - apples headphone comparison. So I know what the Marantz player is capable of sounding like, even on entry level headphones. The Marantz headphone jack sounds better than the KR-9400's and that shouldn't be, to me.
   
  tbh, I didn't notice that great of an improvement on some of the higher end phones at the store (actually preferred the SR-80's over the GS-1000's, though they were beaten pretty soundly by a set of Sennheiser HD700's). That is why I am thinking I might just be a single component away from aural sex, with what I currently have. I know the Marantz is fine, I know the SR-80's are fine for what they are and I know the KR-9400 is a powerhouse and highly regarded...but something seems to be missing.
   
  BTW, I also have a pair of Denon AHD2000's, but I don't like their sound signature and will be putting them up for sale soon. They're kinda boring. Originally, they were my upgrade to the SR-80's, but that didn't work out so well.


----------



## Skylab

The Grado SR-80 are very low impedance, and the Kenny probably has a dropping resistor in the headphone output and this a high-ish output impedance. That's going to mean some potential problems with the Grados. Might not be the issue...but it might.


----------



## dogwan

X2 on what Skylab said.
   
  It may seem like your comparing apples to apples here with the same headphones, but that may not be true.
   
  As a testimonial, I have a vintage Hitachi integrated that sounds freakin' awesome through a decent set of speakers, but I always thought the headphone out was "meh". Until one day I plugged in a pair of 600 ohm AKG's, boy then it really sang. I traced the headphone circuit and it really just ran off the speaker taps internally with a dropping resistor. With my Grado's it was horrid. With my 300 ohm Senn's it was getting ok. But 600 ohm seems to be the sweet spot.


----------



## dsavitsk

skylab said:


> The Grado SR-80 are very low impedance, and the Kenny probably has a dropping resistor in the headphone output and this a high-ish output impedance. That's going to mean some potential problems with the Grados. Might not be the issue...but it might.




Probably won't. Grados have a nearly linear impedance, so all the dropping resistor does is lower the volume a bit, and possibly reduce noise. Grados do well with a little bit of impedance anyway as they otherwise tend to sound too bright.


----------



## GoldfishX

Hmm, okay, let me ask another question...Is there any danger in hooking up other components to the KR-9400, either as a preamp or to use the Kenwood as a power amp? I have a cheapo amp I can experiment with, but I am concerned about the power of the KR-9400 causing damage to it. Issue or nonissue?


----------



## BigCabDaddy

goldfishx said:


> Hmm, okay, let me ask another question...Is there any danger in hooking up other components to the KR-9400, either as a preamp or to use the Kenwood as a power amp? I have a cheapo amp I can experiment with, but I am concerned about the power of the KR-9400 causing damage to it. Issue or nonissue?




Should be fine if you use the preamp/line/audio/tape out.


----------



## Silent One

Some of these vintage irons are designed to do just that - use the amp with another preamp; use the amp's preamp with another amp, if one so desired... and multiple amps. I tend to do this with my SX-D7000.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Just picked a long time desired amp off of ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/230965445458?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Was a little bit of a knee jerk since I missed out on the big brother recently. Not one of those thrift store steals, but a good, honest price I'm hoping.
   
  Anyway, I'm actually thinking of doing some of this deoxit stuff you all talk about. Any advice on how to go about it or is there a thread or something? Not even sure where you get it to be honest with you. I'm assuming it's some kind of contact cleaner, right?


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Assistance requested...Apologies in advance for the n00bness with vintage equipment.
> 
> My current set-up for my home stereo is a Marantz SA-8004 hooking into a vintage Kenwood KR-9400 (monster receiver). I have low end Technics speakers hooked into the Kenwood. I also use the headphone jack directly on the Kenwood a lot. Headphones are more important than speakers at this point.
> 
> ...


 
  Hey, I had a Kenwood KR-9600 until recently. I was able to use it to run low and high impedance headphones just fine. It did initially have a mediocre sound quality through the headphone jacks, but it was 99% fixed with deoxit. A recap might have gotten the last 1%, but I didn't have it in the budget, haha. If you don't want to open it up, just hitting the headphone jack and your input ports with the right deoxit will get you most of the way there.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Just picked a long time desired amp off of ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/230965445458?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Was a little bit of a knee jerk since I missed out on the big brother recently. Not one of those thrift store steals, but a good, honest price I'm hoping.
> 
> Anyway, I'm actually thinking of doing some of this deoxit stuff you all talk about. Any advice on how to go about it or is there a thread or something? Not even sure where you get it to be honest with you. I'm assuming it's some kind of contact cleaner, right?


 
   
  Here is the AK DeoxIt guide:
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005
   
  Guitar Center sells the D5 - which should be what you want.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

speakerbox said:


> Here is the AK DeoxIt guide:
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005
> 
> Guitar Center sells the D5 - which should be what you want.




Awesome! Looks like it calls for a couple deoxit products, eh?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Hey, I had a Kenwood KR-9600 until recently. I was able to use it to run low and high impedance headphones just fine. It did initially have a mediocre sound quality through the headphone jacks, but it was 99% fixed with deoxit. A recap might have gotten the last 1%, but I didn't have it in the budget, haha. If you don't want to open it up, just hitting the headphone jack and your input ports with the right deoxit will get you most of the way there.


 
   
  If DeoxIT ever gets banned and replaced by inferior products, _we're in trouble..._


----------



## harrinj

found a great condition KT-8300 tuner for $35. now need to find the amp. 

 I really want the Onkyo P-303, U-30 at a store near me but almost $200 a piece that is BS.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> found a great condition KT-8300 tuner for $35. now need to find the amp.
> 
> I really want the Onkyo P-303, U-30 at a store near me but almost $200 a piece that is BS.


 
   
  The Kenwood KT-8300 is very highly regarded and that is a great price.  Check out http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ for the mods that can be done.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> The Kenwood KT-8300 is very highly regarded and that is a great price.  Check out http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ for the mods that can be done.


 
   


 I have the KT-8300 and have done most of the mods mentioned. It is a phenomenal sounding piece of kit after the mods and not too shabby before.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> The Kenwood KT-8300 is very highly regarded and that is a great price.  Check out http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/ for the mods that can be done.


 
  yeah! I don't listen to the radio really at all though. I would love to find the amp(s) that go with it though! I am collecting these old receivers now. so far have an Harman Kardon 430 (really want a 730) I use with my Music Hall MMF 5.1 and Kenwood KR-7300 that I use with my computer and Nuforce UDH-100


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> yeah! I don't listen to the radio really at all though. I would love to find the amp(s) that go with it though! I am collecting these old receivers now. so far have an Harman Kardon 430 (really want a 730) I use with my Music Hall MMF 5.1 and Kenwood KR-7300 that I use with my computer and Nuforce UDH-100


 
   
  I currently have a heavily modified KT-7550 running into the analog bypass on my NAD M15 (very good in this mode) and then into 2 Jeff Rowland M1s in bridged mono configuration.  It is basically unmatched sound quality.  Incredible detail and depth/width of sound stage.   The 7550 even images beyond the outside edges of my speakers.


----------



## GoldfishX

Thanks for the suggestions! I was able to find a vintage shop in the area, will take the KR-9400 in for a tune-up. I took a good look inside the headphone jack and it is either dirty or rusty. It might be placebo, but because the Marantz player is brand new, I think it needed to break-in. I noticed a slight improvement in soundstage through the speakers the other day. I had Metallica going pretty good! But also not gonna lie...I want to try some other gear out if I find it for a decent price (the Kenwood is my only piece of vintage equipment at the moment). The ability to link components sounds like a good enough excuse, plus knowing I can try it both as the preamp and the power amp is nice. I have the space available on my shelf.


----------



## xpunjab

does any one has the Luxman R1120?


----------



## Oregonian

You guys think a Pioneer SX315 is worth $50 if it works properly?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> You guys think a Pioneer SX315 is worth $50 if it works properly?


 
   
  $50 might be a little high.


----------



## MattTCG

Crap...my denon avr-600 now displays "PROTECT" when I turn it on. I have disconnected all cables and still get the message. Also have tried another outlet. Is it done? Is there a way to do a factory reset?


----------



## ElRoi

Electroacustic - GmbH Kiel - Lautspr. Box - Typ LK 4100 -
 32 758 R  No. 13836
 Made in Western Germany  Check out these made in "Western Germany" stereo speakers I picked up the other day at the Goodwill store for $8. I don't think they knew what they had when they priced them. Heck I didn't even know what they were because I really couldn't anything about them using "the google." All I knew is that they were heavy as hell, not too beat up and were made in W. Germany.  So, I took a shot.  They have two different 10 inch woofers (my friend who is a sound engineer in Germany said that one was for extreme lows), some sort of 6 inch oval mid-range (inside a plastic enclosure) and a soft dome tweeter. The top, bottom and sides turned out  to be constructed of solid wood. Unfortunately, the badges are missing from the grills, so I have very little information about these.  They seem to be fully functioning and sounded pretty damn good hooked up to and ancient Pioneer 50 watt test amp with Chet Baker oozing out of them.
 Again, I can find anything on these speakers in the interweb.  If anyone has any info, please post it here.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Nice score!! My wife would have a complete meltdown if I brought something like that home.


----------



## Argybargy

matttcg said:


> ^^ Nice score!! My wife would have a complete meltdown if I brought something like that home.



My wife loves the look of vintage gear. The other day she suggested upgrading my HPM700 because they didn't go low enough. She also pesters me about getting a nice turntable (I'm all digital).


----------



## Silent One

_You've got chemistry _



_inside the listening room._


----------



## ElRoi

LOL, it took me a few days to introduce them to my special lady friend.  For $8, I really couldn't pass them up and I knew she would be able to complain too much at that price.


----------



## Fearless1

Heya,
   
  Calling on a little help here if anyone would be so kind.
   
  Recently saw a Luxman LV-105u Hybrid Tube Stereo  Amplifier at a vintage electronics booth at a swap meet, I asked to see the internals (curiosity struck me as it said hybrid on the badge), and it did indeed have two tubes (Alpine tubes). I gave him 25 to hold it for me (asking 100 for it) as to seek out some more info.  This is what I found http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/integrated-amplifiers/luxman/lv-105u/prd_115901_2717crx.aspx, not glowing reviews, but a tube roll might do it some justice.
   
  Does anyone have any information on this amp?
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Skylab

That wasn't really Luxman's greatest period, the late 1980's. I had a SS preamp of theirs in the early 90's and it was decent, but not great. If its 100% functional with zero issues, $100 isn't a huge amount to risk,


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That wasn't really Luxman's greatest period, the late 1980's. I had a SS preamp of theirs in the early 90's and it was decent, but not great. If its 100% functional with zero issues, $100 isn't a huge amount to risk,


 
  I was not even thinking of it in terms of being a Luxman, it just seemed interesting. He always has odd gear that he picks up at really good prices.  I agree about the 100 bucks, the only reason I did not pick it up is because of no ATM there and only had a bit of cash on me.
   
  Thanks !


----------



## harrinj

got a Marantz 2220B Receiver. it is DEAD SILENT which is very awesome compared to the hum on my HK 430 and lesser hum on my Kenwood KR-7400. feeding the 2220B with a Nuforce UDH-100 24/192 vinyl rip of pink floyds PULSE and it is incredible sound quality may be a little better than the Kenwood not the HK 430 though.


----------



## joehalo

Hope you guys can help me out. Having issues with my Kenwood KA-405's input selector.
  When set it to the center tuner position, it works great. If I turn the knob up to phono or down to aux 95% of the time I get no sound from the left channel. Now if I fiddle with the knob, (sorta turn it halfway between tuner and phono or aux) the sound returns to my left channel.

   

   

   

  I have put deoxit in both those 2 little holes and into the switch from any angle I can many times. This does not fix the issue. Any other ideas? Found this http://www.ebay.com/itm/160897060076?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 It is not form the same model but looks pretty similar. Do you guys think I could use parts from it to fix mine? Thanks


----------



## duncan1

Sorry to say you might have a major problem in the switch. The small gear moves contacts forward or back across the  switch internally   . The contacts sound worn.
                   You can either live with it or unsolder the metal cover and remove to see if that allows you access to the contacts .If not then you have little action left unless you could replace the switch .Many have sealed contacts 
                        Having tried to repair  many of those 70s/80s/ switches it is either hard or impossible.other than replace it.
                               If it works when you click it half-way then as a last resort remove/bend  the click action so that you have smooth adjustment. But thats a last resort.
                                   Looking at the link you provided for a replacement the first thing  that strikes me is that the control shaft is direct not via a gear so you would have to  redrill the front  plate 
                                       the second unless it has the same number of contacts as your one it will not fit .


----------



## RickeyM

After reading some of this thread, I got out my old Sony STR-6065a receiver, still stylish in it's wood trim, and gave a listen with some Radio Shack earbuds I use for commuting and *WOW!* , that old Sony rocks. Much better, fuller sounding than _any _of my HT receivers. In a week or two I'll have my new headphones and I'll see what it'll really do.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





rickeym said:


> After reading some of this thread, I got out my old Sony STR-6065a receiver, still stylish in it's wood trim, and gave a listen with some Radio Shack earbuds I use for commuting and *WOW!* , that old Sony rocks. Much better, fuller sounding than _any _of my HT receivers. In a week or two I'll have my new headphones and I'll see what it'll really do.


 
   
  What hp's are you planning to try out with the Sony?


----------



## RickeyM

Right now I'm liking the Sony MDR-1R


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm glad someone mentioned a Sony STR-6065. I've been thinking about picking up a STR-6065/6065/6120/6200 recently as a lower power receiver since they have a few rave (though arguably quite biased) reviews. I'm willing to take a risk on them since they don't go for much, but I could always use for another opinion. Is anyone here able to compare any of them to a Pioneer SX-1980? I'm just looking for sound quality & listening pleasure on inputs and the tuner. Obviously one of those is a clear winner on volume and wattage haha.


----------



## silversurfer616

Going to pick up a Pioneer 1974 XS1010 receiver tomorrow to use as a headamp with my HD800.
  Really excited that it might be better than my Phoenix!


----------



## Oregonian

Found a gorgeous Kenwood KA-5700 that looks brand new for $149........,worth it? It's the amplifier, no tuner.

Gorgeous piece.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Found a gorgeous Kenwood KA-5700 that looks brand new for $149........,worth it? It's the amplifier, no tuner.
> 
> Gorgeous piece.


 
   
  That might be close to the average Ebay price for one in near mint condition.  Are you paying shipping too?


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> That might be close to the average Ebay price for one in near mint condition.  Are you paying shipping too?




It's in a local second hand store............so pickup is free. It IS mint and beautiful. Might be able to get a few bucks off too. It's been there a while.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> It's in a local second hand store............so pickup is free. It IS mint and beautiful. Might be able to get a few bucks off too. It's been there a while.


 
  Have not heard the 5700, but know that some of the others (e.g. KA7100) are very highly regarded.


----------



## harrinj

bought a great looking (only two lamps out) Harman Kardon 670 at Ranch Records in Salem, OR. IT SOUNDS WONDERFUL W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L-!


----------



## Rossliew

Guys, anyone can advise if the Sansui AU555a is a good amp to have? Heard it has a nice warm, tubey sound. Very tempted to add it to my collection.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> bought a great looking (only two lamps out) Harman Kardon 670 at Ranch Records in Salem, OR. IT SOUNDS WONDERFUL W-O-N-D-E-R-F-U-L-!


 
   
  Isn't it? I really think it's one of the unheralded receivers of the era, and unlike flagship models from Pioneer, Sansui, etc., it's still available at accessible prices.


----------



## moodyrn

I've had quiet a bit of time with my 9090db, and man o man does this thing sounds good. I had told a friend while I was away that this may give my 907 a serious run for it's money when I get it back home. Well, I'm shocked and amazed that it hands down beats my kenny. I was in denial about it for a while but had to come to the realization that it's better. Really doesn't make sense since the kenny is much higher regarded than the sansui. So my only guess is that there really must be a whole lot more to this recapping thing than I've realized.
   
  In the past I've only replaced caps in gear that were bad and never did a full recapping, but this experience has changed my mind about that. I don't know if it's just the fact it's been recapped(many resistors were also replaced) or if it's the caps that were used(mostly nichicon premiums). The kenny still has by far the better preamp. It has the -20db button like the sansui, but I've never had to use it. It's completely black with my ciems, and still have enough to power my he6 at the same time. The sansui can't do that. I have to use the -20db button with my w3000 and my ciems still have a bit of his even with the -20db button engaged. Also my he6 have a bit of hiss using the speaker taps while they're completely silent from the speaker taps of the kenny with it being much more powerful.
   
  I have a friend that has a seven grand  lfd amp that had to be sent in for repairs. So I brought both the kenny and sansui over to hear how they sounded with his harbeth hl5. They kenny sounded great, but he said his lfd amp still outclassed it, but he thought that it was about 85% as good which was very high praise considering we were talking about an almost 7000.00 amp. Next came the sansui, and his reaction was wow, this thing sounds really good, and thought it did a couple of things better and was very close to his lfd. He also thought the headphone jack was equally as good. The lcd-3 sounded amazing out of it. This was extremely high praise indeed, and I must admit I was blown away myself by what I was hearing.
   
  The mids were sooo addictive sounding, with a very airy, sweet sounding high end. The sound stage was both wide and deep and it never lost composure during complex passages. Transparency was good, not the best I've  heard, but it was still very good nonetheless. The imaging was very precise and the music just flowed effortlessly out of the speakers; very close to sounding like we were actually there. The kenny by comparison had a little grain in the mids, a slight harshness in the lower treble, and just didn't sound as pure as the sansui did.
   
  I also took it to the Atlanta meet this weekend(Canlanta) to make an attempt to introduce everybody to the world of "vintage". I knew some would like it, but I wasn't prepared for the overwhelmingly warm reception it received. One person whose opinion I trust a lot said the best of show was the stax 009/Blue Hawaii combo(sublime set up imo), and after that was the sansui with pretty much any can plugged into it. I was flabbergasted. There were some amazing setups there, many of them costing multiple of thousands. I won't go that far myself, but I will say that I liked it better than the gsx m2 that was there which is a killer amp in it's own right. But there were too many excellent "high end" setups there for me to go there, but I really appreciated the compliment. I'm still amazed that how good this sounds, and there's nothing wrong with my 907(other than now it could use a good recapping). 
   
  The kenny until now has soundly beaten a marantz 2325, 2330B, sansui au-11000, kr9600, au-517, and pioneer sx1010. And it wasn't even close between all of those. I'm really at a lost for words at the fact it beats my 907 but it does. So now I know I at least need to have the kenny recapped if nothing else. And I'm fully expecting it to be king again once that takes place.


----------



## Argybargy

We need some pics!


----------



## Silent One

To the once and future King Kenny!





   
  Great to hear about your experience. My Sansui is still being evaluated... in the back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




of the room. What can I say, the cat has a back log. But when it's time, give me some guidance on what to replace - I want my baby restored! 
   
  YES, pix!


----------



## moodyrn

Here's a couple of pics I snapped right after I replaced the bulbs with LEDs. The cheapest I could find a set for was 80.00. Not bad but more than I wanted to pay. So I reluctantly decided to build my own. I've done it before, but its a very long process. The power meters were the most difficult to replace. You have to pretty much take the whole amp apart in order to reach them. Most pics I've seen online, people actually skipped over the, and only did the indicators and dial lamps. Very few pics I've seen actually had the power meter lamps replaced(of course Skylab's were one of them), and I understand why.





Here's one from the Atlanta meet thread taken by MattTCG


----------



## Oregonian

I can officially say I'm now a member of the vintage world.  Bought this Kenwood KA5700 today at a pawn shop for $90 - tested it through my headphones (iPhone5 w/LOD and RCA's into the aux input on the amplifier) and had to play the poker face routine it sounded so good.  They had it for $109 and had no idea what it was.  It'll be either in my home office/computer driven system or main listening station.  Just thrilled.  Gonna get some Deoxit and start there..............after I listen to it for a bit.  May need some ideas on bulb replacements and power meters but for now it works and sounds great.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I can officially say I'm now a member of the vintage world.  Bought this Kenwood KA5700 today at a pawn shop for $90 - tested it through my headphones (iPhone5 w/LOD and RCA's into the aux input on the amplifier) and had to play the poker face routine it sounded so good.  They had it for $109 and had no idea what it was.  It'll be either in my home office/computer driven system or main listening station.  Just thrilled.  Gonna get some Deoxit and start there..............after I listen to it for a bit.  May need some ideas on bulb replacements and power meters but for now it works and sounds great.


 

 Oh my god does this sound phenomenal!  Can't even use the loudness switch it hits so hard.  I'm only running it through my XB500 since that's the only phone I have at work today.  Wait till I try it on my Denon's and Q40's. 
   
  I can't believe how lucky I am to have stumbled on this sub-category of the site and for the wisdom y'all have imparted to us (in the form of hyping vintage to the point of us HAVING TO BUY ONE).  Thank you!


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats and welcome to the world of vintage.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Oh my god does this sound phenomenal!  Can't even use the loudness switch it hits so hard.  I'm only running it through my XB500 since that's the only phone I have at work today.  Wait till I try it on my Denon's and Q40's.
> 
> I can't believe how lucky I am to have stumbled on this sub-category of the site and for the wisdom y'all have imparted to us (in the form of hyping vintage to the point of us HAVING TO BUY ONE).  Thank you!


 
   
  The nice part is that it's still a relatively inexpensive entry point. I got my Pioneer A60 at ~$100 as well could have had one of my former dreams: The Pioneer A80 off of ebay recently. Neither of those are particularly great prices... that's not the point. My point is there aren't many other areas of life (like headphones for instance) where a dream piece of equipment can be had for less than $200.
   
  My one frustration in evaluating from afar is that back in the day I hardly paid attention to the headphone output at all. So while I may remember a particular piece of gear fondly, it's because of features or speaker output... not headphones which would be of prime concern today.
   
  Anyway, congrats on your find and pickup.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Oh my god does this sound phenomenal!  Can't even use the loudness switch it hits so hard.  I'm only running it through my XB500 since that's the only phone I have at work today.  Wait till I try it on my Denon's and Q40's.
> 
> I can't believe how lucky I am to have stumbled on this sub-category of the site and for the wisdom y'all have imparted to us (in the form of hyping vintage to the point of us HAVING TO BUY ONE).  Thank you!


 
   
  Are you running the XB500 from the speaker taps? If so, you're a madman (in a good way)!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Are you running the XB500 from the speaker taps? If so, you're a madman (in a good way)!


 

 Nope, from the headphone jack with an adapter.


----------



## Oregonian

Aside from size considerations, I can't imagine why NOT use something like this for a listening station.  Seriously. 
   
  I get the need for portable amps, but other than that, this is the way to go for me.  Now I'm plotting getting my next one!
   
  For less than $100 I found my best amp from a time when Pink Floyd was king. 
   
  SMH...........in a good way.


----------



## Oregonian

So how do I find out when this was built?  It has a serial number of 712602 but no date.


----------



## Argybargy

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Here's a couple of pics I snapped right after I replaced the bulbs with LEDs. The cheapest I could find a set for was 80.00. Not bad but more than I wanted to pay. So I reluctantly decided to build my own. I've done it before, but its a very long process. The power meters were the most difficult to replace. You have to pretty much take the whole amp apart in order to reach them. Most pics I've seen online, people actually skipped over the, and only did the indicators and dial lamps. Very few pics I've seen actually had the power meter lamps replaced(of course Skylab's were one of them), and I understand why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice!  Good job with the DIY LEDs.  Next refurb, I'll probably go this route.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks


----------



## Argybargy

I can't quite read the stripes on the resistors. What values did you use?


----------



## moodyrn

I used 56ohm for the dial lights and 100ohm for the rest. 5mm bulbs for the indicator and dial lamps and 3mm for the power meter lamps.


----------



## Argybargy

Thanks.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Isn't it? I really think it's one of the unheralded receivers of the era, and unlike flagship models from Pioneer, Sansui, etc., it's still available at accessible prices.


 
  oh hell yes!!! This Harman Kardon 670 has very very little background noise and the sound is better than my Kenwood KR-7400 (background noise), Marantz 2220B (no background noise at all, who ever had it used it for a little bit and then put it back in the bx where it sat for 30+ years, it even fused to the styrofoam on the bottom plate of it) , Harman Kardon 430 (background noise). it is just AMAZING. it's extremely big and heavy and the amp is incredible. whoever bought this when it came out must have had some money... I think it was thee top of the line back then for HK? I need to get two 8v fuse lamps to replace the two that are burnt out. however I don't yet know if the meter light is different (anyone know?) anyways cleaned it straightened the two switches in the front, fixed the tuner and it is just great just great. I'm very happy with it! the same day I found a Sansui 771 I was interested in at an antique store in Lincoln City, OR but glad I found the 670!


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Anyone know much about the Kenwood KA-3500 headphone wise? Got a chance to pick up a clean looking one for $55 at the local Goodwill.


----------



## Oregonian

bigcabdaddy said:


> Anyone know much about the Kenwood KA-3500 headphone wise? Got a chance to pick up a clean looking one for $55 at the local Goodwill.




If its even close to the KA-5700 I just bought the headphone out will sound outstanding. Can you bring the connectors and phones with you and try it? That's what I did. The guys in the pawn shop thought I was nuts. :rolleyes:


----------



## harrinj

there is a Technics SA-800 and a Kenwood Model Eleven near me on Craigslist I have asked about. what one would be better?
[size=1.4em]  [/size]


----------



## Skylab

I don't know anything about that Technics but if that Model Eleven works completely then that is a pretty sweet piece.


----------



## Trav

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Here's a couple of pics I snapped right after I replaced the bulbs with LEDs. The cheapest I could find a set for was 80.00. Not bad but more than I wanted to pay. So I reluctantly decided to build my own. I've done it before, but its a very long process. The power meters were the most difficult to replace. You have to pretty much take the whole amp apart in order to reach them. Most pics I've seen online, people actually skipped over the, and only did the indicators and dial lamps. Very few pics I've seen actually had the power meter lamps replaced(of course Skylab's were one of them), and I understand why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I had the good fortune of hearing Moodys rig at the meet last week and it was....jaw droppingly good. My T50RP's absolutely blossomed! Needless to say I will be joining you lads ASAP in the vintage club.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





trav said:


> I had the good fortune of hearing Moodys rig at the meet last week and it was....jaw droppingly good. My T50RP's absolutely blossomed! Needless to say I will be joining you lads ASAP in the vintage club.


 
   
  The 9090DB is highly regarded in this AK thread: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=302833


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





trav said:


> I had the good fortune of hearing Moodys rig at the meet last week and it was....jaw droppingly good. My T50RP's absolutely blossomed! Needless to say I will be joining you lads ASAP in the vintage club.


 
   
  I will say that exact same thing about my Maddogs. They have never sounded as good as I heard them through that vintage amp. Now granted, there was a sacd player connected to it, but man did my MD's sound good.


----------



## Oregonian

Must have been meant for me to be a Kenwood guy, cause I just bought my SECOND KA-5700 this week. First is for my main head Fi station, this will be for my computer rig.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I don't know anything about that Technics but if that Model Eleven works completely then that is a pretty sweet piece.


 
  The Model eleven looks so cool but its apparently gone. I got him down to $200 from $375 though  the Technics was sold as well. There is a Model Eleven G for sale on CL for $260 though


----------



## PredatorZ

Has anyone had to do any replacement of the old caps in they're vintage gear ? A lot of electrolytic caps have a pretty short life span, as in 5 to 10 years. I have a vintage Pioneer SX-650. My GF found it at a garage sale for $20, I traded her a nice Zalman laptop cooler for it, we were both pleased with our new toys. Back in the Day I really wanted to get a Pioneer receiver, but ended up with a JVC integrated, it was a sweet little amp, forget the model, about 65 watts I think, I still have the original receipt in my stereo folder. I have almost every receipt and manual from my purchases over the years.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





predatorz said:


> Has anyone had to do any replacement of the old caps in they're vintage gear ?


 
   
  Yes, most will need some caps replaced......and a few transistors too in some Pioneer units.


----------



## Oregonian

bmwr75 said:


> Yes, most will need some caps replaced......and a few transistors too in some Pioneer units.




So what are the signs of needing this done? 

I now have two identical KA-5700 integrated amps and both play flawlessly with the exception that one has a slight amount of volume change noise that I have Deoxit arriving today to address.


----------



## duncan1

Oregonian- SS amps of the 70s up to the 80s usually had caps that while up to the standards  then would not pass muster now. Low background hum or if you short out the input and turn the volume up to test. Or a slight increase in perceived distortion sibilance a bit rough/edgy. The quality of BJTs [transistors]  then was also not up to latest standards but don't change them if they are working okay.
   If the volume control is noisy a rotary control I presume  then-EITHER the carbon surface that the slider moves on is worn OR somebody has used too much force on the control and bent the slider. Take off back cover of control and SLIGHTLY bend it to put more force on the carbon track OR replace.it.


----------



## Skylab

My Pioneer SX-1980 has been completely recapped, as has my RT-707 reel deck. I mean EVERY electrolytic cap was replaced (a big job that I of course paid someone else to do). I also recapped the crossovers in my Pioneer HPM-100 speakers.


----------



## PredatorZ

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> So what are the signs of needing this done?
> 
> I now have two identical KA-5700 integrated amps and both play flawlessly with the exception that one has a slight amount of volume change noise that I have Deoxit arriving today to address.


 

 As far as bad caps go, in my experience, most have an X of some type in the top cover, its a stress relief. If the caps go bad, a quick visual inspection can catch some, just look for the caps to bulge upwards, with a convex shape, or domes. But some could very well fail without showing these signs, but it a good place to start.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

I keep reading about replacing caps and I already knew about the x thing. But is it easy to do for someone with moderate soldering skills? Where do you buy your caps? Do you buy in bulk or in exact amounts?


----------



## Skylab

As I understand it, for something like a receiver, you need a good soldering iron, a desoldering tool, a multimeter, and a good understanding of the basic electrical values/properties of capacitors and resistors at a minimum.

Other than something easy like a speaker crossover, I have neither the time nor the skill for such a job.


----------



## Rawrbington

for just a cap refresh if you have the soldering skills it isn't too bad.  some can be tedious.
  if you actually have an issue with the amp that isn't a cap, troubleshooting it can be much more difficult.
   
  mouser and digikey are the best places for general electrolytics and panasonic seems to be the "standard" for just a general recap. 
  you don't have to order in bulk.
  check out the akdatabase and see if someone has put together a recap list for your amp/receiver
   
  if its just caps you could most likely get it done with moderate soldering skills.  start with something easy like your big filters or whatnot


----------



## moodyrn

Also, it depends on the amp. I've been going back and forth about doing the recap on my k-907 myself or paying someone else to do it because of how hard it is to get to many of them. I contacted a couple of kenwood vintage gurus over at audiokarma about it.
   
  One responded that some caps are nearly impossible to replace because the power supply board is basically welded to an underlying copper chassis, and trying to remove it is way to risky and many people don't want to touch it. He's done it before, but its a very tedious process. The other member hasn't responded yet.
   
  So although to replace the cap itself it pretty easily, it really depends on the amp as to how hard it is to get to. My fisher is super easy to work on. Being point to point, everything is laid out in front of you. you only have to remove the bottom cover to access most everything. Trying to remove pcbs from hard to reach places can be a pain.


----------



## harrinj

I can not get over how wonderful my Harman kardon 670 sounds. Its beautiful with AKG K702 & my DT990 just fantastic sound. I've ordered new fuse lamps for it and can't wait for them to get here so I can see it lit up properly! Whoever bought this originally had a lot of money back then because in today's amount it would have been almost $2,000.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I can not get over how wonderful my Harman kardon 670 sounds. Its beautiful with AKG K702 & my DT990 just fantastic sound. I've ordered new fuse lamps for it and can't wait for them to get here so I can see it lit up properly! Whoever bought this originally had a lot of money back then because in today's amount it would have been almost $2,000.




I feel the same way about my Kenwoods. It's like we have insider trading knowledge - these things from my experience blow away headphone-specific amps. I only have the Schiit Magni and the Indeed G-3 to compare, and about a dozen portables, but NONE even come close. The ONLY benefit is the size.........which is a non issue for me. 

I just feel so lucky to have found this thread and subsequently the dual Kenwoods.


----------



## moodyrn

That's the wonderful thing about vintage audio. You don't have to invest a fortune into one really good sounding rig to use primarily as you main rig, and a couple of secondary rigs that are not on the same level. You can have several "high end" sounding rigs for sometimes less money it would cost to put together one high end rig with modern gear. 
   
  I'm not knocking modern gear, I still own a good bit of it. Both modern and vintage rigs have their own advantages and disadvantages. But I have a different amp for each can I own, and each amp is excellent sounding. I would never want to invest in getting several amps that each cost thousands. 
   
  But with vintage audio, I can have that same sound, with multiple amps, and still keep most of my money into my pocket. It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it to"


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> So what are the signs of needing this done?
> 
> I now have two identical KA-5700 integrated amps and both play flawlessly with the exception that one has a slight amount of volume change noise that I have Deoxit arriving today to address.


 
   
  As others have said, might not sound as good as it should.  Or, some hum, little or a lot.  Or, some screeching sounds if transistors are bad.  
   
  I bought a Pioneer SX-636 new circa 1976.  It is on my bench now getting completely recapped and 3 different types of known to go bad transistors replaced.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That's the wonderful thing about vintage audio. You don't have to invest a fortune into one really good sounding rig to use primarily as you main rig, and a couple of secondary rigs that are not on the same level. You can have several "high end" sounding rigs for sometimes less money it would cost to put together one high end rig with modern gear.
> 
> I'm not knocking modern gear, I still own a good bit of it. Both modern and vintage rigs have their own advantages and disadvantages. But I have a different amp for each can I own, and each amp is excellent sounding. I would never want to invest in getting several amps that each cost thousands.
> 
> But with vintage audio, I can have that same sound, with multiple amps, and still keep most of my money into my pocket. It's the ultimate "have your cake and eat it to"


 
   
  moodyrn knoweth what he 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 speaketh. Though, late to the party of _vintage_, I'm still enjoying cake... tastes great!


----------



## tipo33

Vintage is all I can afford so far, with the exeption of a CMOY.


----------



## Silent One

One thing is for certain - or nearly so - if I buy a dedicated head-amp today for $1,600, I might be able to sell it in two years for $1,000 - $1,120. I recently bought my vintage Sansui G22000 for $1,600. In two years, the market would not expect to see MY amp selling for $1,000!!!


----------



## Oregonian

tipo33 said:


> Vintage is all I can afford so far, with the exeption of a CMOY.




Think of that as a GOOD thing. I kid you not, my Kenwoods sound is so good and powerful that I can't imagine better.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





silent one said:


> One thing is for certain - or nearly so - if I buy a dedicated head-amp today for $1,600, I might be able to sell it in two years for $1,000 - $1,120. I recently bought my vintage Sansui G22000 for $1,600. In two years, the market would not expect to see MY amp selling for $1,000!!!


 
   
  Supply & demand FTW!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Supply & demand FTW!


 
   
  Well, in the event you all do see my amp selling in two years for at or below $1,000, _notify me, it's stolen! _


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I feel the same way about my Kenwoods. It's like we have insider trading knowledge - these things from my experience blow away headphone-specific amps. I only have the Schiit Magni and the Indeed G-3 to compare, and about a dozen portables, but NONE even come close. The ONLY benefit is the size.........which is a non issue for me.
> 
> I just feel so lucky to have found this thread and subsequently the dual Kenwoods.


 
  I have a Kenwood KR-7400 and besides some background hum it is really nice. I also have a Kenwood KT-8300 tuner and I'd love to find the amp(s) that go with it. I think it was you that posted the other day you found one >_> lol


----------



## DefQon

Off topic: @ Silent's avatar, searched her up and dayummmm she fine.


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Well, in the event you all do see my amp selling in two years for at or below $1,000, _notify me, it's stolen! _


 
   
  After I give a very very thorough shake down, indeed I will.
   
  Quote: 





defqon said:


> Off topic: @ Silent's avatar, searched her up and dayummmm she fine.


 
   
   
  He tipped me off to her late last year, and I have to agree. Music is damn fine as well.


----------



## Trav

Anyone have any firsthand experience with Quadraflex? A colleague has a model 878 he has just sitting around. Power rating is 45 wpc i think. Thx.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I have a Kenwood KR-7400 and besides some background hum it is really nice. I also have a Kenwood KT-8300 tuner and I'd love to find the amp(s) that go with it. I think it was you that posted the other day you found one >_> lol




Well I found in the space of four days two KA-5700's on my local Craigslist board! Bought them both for a combined $210 - worth every penny to me. The second shop had about 12 or so vintage receivers, mostly Marantz and Kenwood. A veritable candy store........


----------



## RickeyM

I just bought a vintage receiver the other day, Sony STR-GX808ES. It's got a nice strong headphone amp which is just a little bit on the warm side. It sounds very good on the 'phones and it has an EQ that lets you adjust the bass, treble and mid turnover frequencies and the mid control has a wide/narrow bandwidth control. I prefer not to use equalization, but if needed, it helps to be able to put it right where you need it. Yeah, this Sony is a keeper.


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Well I found in the space of four days two KA-5700's on my local Craigslist board! Bought them both for a combined $210 - worth every penny to me. The second shop had about 12 or so vintage receivers, mostly Marantz and Kenwood. A veritable candy store........


 
  Was the second one Audio Specialties? If you haven't been there I both recommend and don't recommend you go. Too much nice, vintage stuff that is very tempting.
   
   
  For those of you who had your amps/receivers recapped by a stereo repair shop, would you be willing to share how much that cost you, or maybe a range? I finally opened the Sansui 8080db I have and was going to use some contact cleaner on switches and rotary controls but when I got the cover off I discovered that those controls are further inside than I'm willing to go. I don't want to start removing pieces and have something fall off or a tuning string unwind or something like that happen. 
   
  There is very little crackling when I move the knobs anyway so I don't think it's worth the risk.


----------



## captouch

roadcykler said:


> Was the second one Audio Specialties? If you haven't been there I both recommend and don't recommend you go. Too much nice, vintage stuff that is very tempting.
> 
> 
> For those of you who had your amps/receivers recapped by a stereo repair shop, would you be willing to share how much that cost you, or maybe a range? I finally opened the Sansui 8080db I have and was going to use some contact cleaner on switches and rotary controls but when I got the cover off I discovered that those controls are further inside than I'm willing to go. I don't want to start removing pieces and have something fall off or a tuning string unwind or something like that happen.
> ...




I think $300-$500 is pretty typical for a full recap. I was quoted $400 to recap a Sansui Eight Deluxe.


----------



## Silent One

A price range on a full-recap is something I've been wondering about with my Sansui. But the tech says he needs to get up in there first. Then check prices and stuff. A ballpark figure would have been fine... I even said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





as much. A few weeks later and I'm still in suspense.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> He tipped me off to her late last year, and I have to agree. Music is damn fine as well.


 
   
  A "wotts" sighting... great! As summer nears, wonder where you're at right now with changes inside the listening room. Any new vintage iron? I wonder if the cat in Motown ever moved that big block G33000...


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> A "wotts" sighting... great! As summer nears, wonder where you're at right now with changes inside the listening room. Any new vintage iron? I wonder if the cat in Motown ever moved that big block G33000...


 
   
   
  I've moved my Genesis Digital Lens and one of the Aleph 3 power amps to make room for a new toy, but thus far, haven't figured out what one I want. I've been working on rebuilding the crossovers from the vintage speakers and am getting parts lists together for recapping the three vintage receivers I have.
   
  I think the G33000 is gone, I can't find it anymore.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> Was the second one Audio Specialties? If you haven't been there I both recommend and don't recommend you go. Too much nice, vintage stuff that is very tempting.
> 
> 
> For those of you who had your amps/receivers recapped by a stereo repair shop, would you be willing to share how much that cost you, or maybe a range? I finally opened the Sansui 8080db I have and was going to use some contact cleaner on switches and rotary controls but when I got the cover off I discovered that those controls are further inside than I'm willing to go. I don't want to start removing pieces and have something fall off or a tuning string unwind or something like that happen.
> ...




No, it wasn't Audio Specialties, and till you wrote that I didn't know they existed. Damn you. 

Now I have to go there.........it's about 15 minutes away from me............not good. 

Actually, thanks for the tip.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wotts said:


> I think the G33000 is gone, I can't find it anymore.


 
   
  Update: He just sold it a couple of days ago (Friday)!


----------



## Skylab

SX-1980 recap (and full restore, as there are other things that have to be done) is $575 without the main filter caps, and $850 including them. Given the massiveness and complexity of the 1980, I would say that's the absolutely upper limit of what a full recap/restore would ever cost.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks, Skylab. All things considered - what one's got and what one gets in return, not bad. At least, if I'm keeping my iron anyway...


----------



## BmWr75

I'm DIYing a full recap on a Pioneer SX-636 now.  Also replacing 10-12 problematic transistors.  Cost of parts ~$35.  My time will probably be 10-12 hours max.


----------



## Silent One

*O*, you're good! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I need to pick up a soldering iron and read up a bit - then practice on lesser gears.


----------



## moodyrn

I've opened up my 907 and taken out the preamp board. I'm getting antsy. If I don't hear back from someone soon, I'm going to start doing my own surgery.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Well I found in the space of four days two KA-5700's on my local Craigslist board! Bought them both for a combined $210 - worth every penny to me. The second shop had about 12 or so vintage receivers, mostly Marantz and Kenwood. A veritable candy store........


 
  I live in Oregon too. Oregon coast though. what shop?!?!?!?!?!?!? I saw there was a KA-5700 on CL in Parkrose I think, that was $150... did this shop have a Kenwood Model Eleven? I was in Waldport at a junk store and they had a great shape Pioneer ES-2000 TT and the 4-Ch matrix receiver (no speakers though)


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I live in Oregon too. Oregon coast though. what shop?!?!?!?!?!?!? I saw there was a KA-5700 on CL in Parkrose I think, that was $150... did this shop have a Kenwood Model Eleven? I was in Waldport at a junk store and they had a great shape Pioneer ES-2000 TT and the 4-Ch matrix receiver (no speakers though)




It was in Clackamas, was listed for $150 and I got it for $120. Place called Stuff on 82nd. Don't think they had a Kenwood model 11 but I can't say for sure. Next time I'm in there you want me to check?


----------



## claybum

@ harrinj
   
  If you really want a Kenwoon model 11, I'd check out the one on Eugene craigslist. I saw the unit and it's really nice. $260 is a great price for a fully functioning model eleven thats been gone thru by a tech. I'd be all over it if I had a place to put it and my significant other didn't think I was already crazy. Jeff is a very cool guy and might be inclined to show you some of his extremely cool vintage gear.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I've opened up my 907 and taken out the preamp board. I'm getting antsy. If I don't hear back from someone soon, I'm going to start doing my own surgery.


 
  Good luck with the 907 moodyrn!!! My 907 just had a channel go out so it will be going into the shop soon. Eventually I would love to get another 907 or maybe a 650 as I am quite intrigued with the kenwood sound. Of course, your comments on the sansui you recently purchased has me thinking. There was a sansui 9090 receiver fully recapped for sale locally not long ago, but I passed up on it due to its horrendous cosmetic condition.
   
  Keep us posted!!


----------



## moodyrn

I finally heard back from a repair shop, well actually a listing for various restorations on eBay. The user is amplifier_surgery. He has listings for various totl receivers and integrateds. They don't have a listing for the 907, but when I inquired about it, they responded saying they're putting together a restoration package for it and taking orders for the 1st week in July. I think they are near the Chicago area, has anyone heard or know anything about them?


----------



## Silent One

_can't wait to learn more, moodyrn..._


----------



## moodyrn

I was impressed with everything involved in their restore, which is much more than a recap. It also includes transistors, diodes, and resistors. Not all of them, but the ones that are bad or out of spec. 

So I guess I'll be putting mine back together. The total cost is 395(before shipping), which isn't bad considering whats inside of that beast.


----------



## Silent One

I'm still waiting for my phone to ring. However, your encounter has brought the thread joy. A rising tide will lift my boat as well.


----------



## Skylab

Really, near Chicago? Any more info? Do they have a store, or are they on AudioKarma, or anything like that?


----------



## moodyrn

They're located in downers grove, IL. I found they have a website, but it only provides very limited info. I also found a youtube link with videos highlighting many of their restorations. They have good feedback on ebay, but the fact not there's not much info about them online worries me a bit, but the youtube videos do look pretty good, and they do have very good feedback on ebay. But I'm not completely sold yet. He's been good with answering all of my questions so far though.
   
  here's a link to their youtube page.http://www.youtube.com/user/AmplifierSurgery


----------



## Skylab

Well that's good info for me, always nice to know of a Chicago person who might do some work for me. I've been sending my Pioneer stuff to a guy in Ohio, who does great work, but the shipping is stressful and expensive.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah the shipping has me a bit concerned. But his prices are good. But on the flip side, I did find out he's a one man operation that works out his house, so it is more of a risk than I want to take. His work on YouTube does look good though. It's just a tough call for me to make.


----------



## Silent One

Your pause is understandable. Whatever you decide, you've a community standing behind you.


----------



## Skylab

The guy I've used is also a one-man shop working out of his house. It's the knowledge and quality of work that matters. The multi-person outfits in large shops tend to be good for basic fixes only in my experience. A full restore requires an craftsman/artisan!


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> Your pause is understandable. Whatever you decide, you've a community standing behind you.



Lol, thanks.



skylab said:


> The guy I've used is also a one-man shop working out of his house. It's the knowledge and quality of work that matters. The multi-person outfits in large shops tend to be good for basic fixes only in my experience. A full restore requires an craftsman/artisan!



Yeah, you're right about that. The popular repair people over at audiokarma are one person ops also. But at least they are well known over there.

I've had a couple of interesting conversations with some local repair guy today.. One of them who works for an authorized service center for a few electronic brands, told me if none of the caps are leaking, leave it alone. I would only be wasting my money. Another who is actually very familiar with the 907 told me, they used special caps in those that last 40-50 years. If it sounds good leave it alone. 

He went on to say that it was one of the best amps ever made, and fooling around with it could make it sound worse and also damage it. Well I use to think the same as those guys. I only replaced caps that were leaking in the past. But what I've heard from a restored sansui has definitely changed my mind about that.


----------



## Skylab

My fully recapped SX-1980 sounds very significantly better than the stock one I had recently. That stock one is now in Ohio also having a full recap and restore. The difference in my experience is no subtle and always for the better.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks for all of the advice. I'm definitely taking it somewhere. It would at least cost 100.00 to ship alone, but the total price would still be cheaper than having it done locally for something as jam packed as this one. The videos of his many restorations are growing on me though.


----------



## johnman1116

Hello, Vintage and audio newbie here. 
  I had a few questions about Vintage Receivers. I read about 10 of the first and last posts on this thread and didnt find what i was looking for which mainly is information.

 What makes vintage so great? excluding aesthetics.
 
 I heard that the benchmark performance is actually accurate compared to modern day receivers ( measuring wattage from the full spectrum for some period of time as opposed to 1khz for ~1 second.) but... 
 I've read that a 500 watt, 5 channel amp actually only has about 64 watts per channel but isnt that still much more than what vintage receivers can produce? forgoing cost for a sec because i dont know the costs.
 
 Do people actually need true 100 watt speakers or will lets say 50ish pretty much drive everything to good levels?
  At the beginning of the thread, a member posted that a Marantz 22XX should only cost at most $100 in 2011. Now I see them go for prices like $2-300 to 500. Are these still "worth it" at these prices which are pretty competitive to modern day receivers but still lack basic needs like hdmi, dolby, etc, etc.
 How would I know If said vintage gear is "good" or not.
 
 its pretty difficult to find reviews on threads on various sites, there arent any big name reviewers that i can see.
 also  typically most vintage people will say it sounds good. maybe based on general knowledge? 
 
 Based on my findings, it seems that usually there is a lot of work that goes into attaining a vintage receiver and bringing it back up to spec (replacing resistors, capacitors, lights, etc.)
 
 You may be able to find random vintage receivers for cheap at yard sales, good will, etc. but the amount of labor that goes into it seems a bit high but i guess thats what a hobby is all about.
 
 Lastly, has anyone compared a up to spec vintage receiver to something like an emotiva or cambridge which are said to be audiophile manufacturers who report accurate specifications. 
   
   
  THANK YOU.
   
   
  Sorry for so many questions. I hope that it isnt confusing and that no one was offended. I just found out about vintage receivers like a week ago and am trying to acquire some knowledge about a series of products that was build many many years before my time.


----------



## tipo33

Ratings for recievers have changed over the years,  A rating of 45 watts on a vintage reciever means 45 watts per channnel RMS.   A rating of 500 watts on a modern reciever means 500 watts PEAK power spread out over 5 (or howevermany) channels.  I will let other people answer the rest of the questions.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

skylab said:


> Well that's good info for me, always nice to know of a Chicago person who might do some work for me. I've been sending my Pioneer stuff to a guy in Ohio, who does great work, but the shipping is stressful and expensive.




A Pioneer guy eh? Do you have experience with an integrated like the A-60? I bought one several weeks ago but have yet to set it up.


----------



## harrinj

Damn I replace the fuse lights on my harman kardon 670 and now they don't work. I opened it up and saw there is like 8 friggen lights and one is not burned out so I turn it on to see and the last one turns on but went out. With new ones in the lights do not come on. Any ideas?


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> Damn I replace the fuse lights on my harman kardon 670 and now they don't work. I opened it up and saw there is like 8 friggen lights and one is not burned out so I turn it on to see and the last one turns on but went out. With new ones in the lights do not come on. Any ideas?


 
  I gave up. for some reason everything above the power button lost power (tuner, buttons etc) on top of that the twine on the tuner spindle came off and I cannot get it back to the way it was... and everything is extremely hard to get to and it just pisses me off so I'll just take it to a vintage repair place. who would have thought replacing simple fuse lamps would be such a hassle


----------



## Zoom25

Hey guys, quick question about the Marantz 2230. How do you guys thing it would pair with HE-500 and LCD-2? Will the amp make the sound too smooth and slow? 
   
  Also, what do you guys think is a fair price for this, especially if the seller is claiming that it was: serviced, had replaced lights, some caps, relays, switches & defuser
   
  Just a rough estimation zone on how much this unit usually goes for and with these possible updates, what the price should be? I am new to the vintage scene and have seen prices for pieces all over the place, so any help would be great.
   
  Also, I currently use the Emotiva Mini-x-a-100 off the speaker taps to run both the planar. Anyone with experience on how the sound might differ between the Emotiva and 2230.
   
  Lastly with speaker taps on Emotiva, I've been using a banana plugs to female XLR adapter that I leaved plugged into the amp, into which I connect the balanced cable for the headphones. I see that these vintage amps didn't have banana plug outputs. Any quick solution on how I could use my current stuff with the Marantz?


----------



## grokit

A banana to spade adapter would prolly do the trick:
   

   
  http://www.amazon.com/Gino-Banana-Adapter-Speaker-Connector/dp/B006Z8NE18


----------



## moodyrn

The marantz 2230 like most vintage receivers(not all) don't have the spade/screw on connector. The only thing you can use other than bare wire is speaker pin connectors. So I would suggest either remove the banana plugs, or replace them with speaker pin connectors if you want to use the pigtail with the 2230.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> The marantz 2230 like most vintage receivers(not all) don't have the spade/screw on connector. The only thing you can use other than bare wire is speaker pin connectors. So I would suggest either remove the banana plugs, or replace them with speaker pin connectors if you want to use the pigtail with the 2230.


 
   
  What about something like this: http://www.smarthome.com/48801/Ethereal-Home-Theater-BTIP-Female-Banana-Plug-Pin-Adapter-Set-5-Pack/p.aspx
   
  With speakers, I always go hard wire, so that's not a problem. I only prefer the banana connectors for headphones for quick switching.
   
  Also how are the headphone jack power in these amps? Not too sure about how much attenuation, if any happens over the headphone output. Will they be able to drive something like HE-500 or LCD-2 from the headphone jack provided or is it too low and I must use the speaker taps.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, those would be perfect for your application. About the power, I never owned that receiver so I can't say.


----------



## grokit

Whoops, they have the spring-loaded terminals, I forgot


----------



## Oregonian

zoom25 said:


> What about something like this: http://www.smarthome.com/48801/Ethereal-Home-Theater-BTIP-Female-Banana-Plug-Pin-Adapter-Set-5-Pack/p.aspx
> 
> With speakers, I always go hard wire, so that's not a problem. I only prefer the banana connectors for headphones for quick switching.
> 
> Also how are the headphone jack power in these amps? Not too sure about how much attenuation, if any happens over the headphone output. Will they be able to drive something like HE-500 or LCD-2 from the headphone jack provided or is it too low and I must use the speaker taps.




If I remember correctly, the headphone jack is direct power from the amp and could drive a truck let alone the HE and LCD.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> If I remember correctly, the headphone jack is direct power from the amp and could drive a truck let alone the HE and LCD.


 
  Is it for this model alone or also true for other vintage models as well, on average? So little power decrease from the headphone jack or completely unhindered?


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





zoom25 said:


> Is it for this model alone or also true for other vintage models as well, on average? So little power decrease from the headphone jack or completely unhindered?


 

 I believe it's the same for all.  My Kenwoods sound amazing out of the headphone jack.  I don't even have speakers hooked up to them...............yes, plural, as I now have two clones.


----------



## Argybargy

zoom25 said:


> Hey guys, quick question about the Marantz 2230. How do you guys thing it would pair with HE-500 and LCD-2? Will the amp make the sound too smooth and slow?
> 
> Also, what do you guys think is a fair price for this, especially if the seller is claiming that it was: serviced, had replaced lights, some caps, relays, switches & defuser
> 
> ...




I had the 2230 before trading it for a mint Sansui Eight. Lcd2.2 and HE500 sound great. Not slow at all.
Both of these headphones should have about 2 watts available from the headphone out for the best SQ and head room. I'm guessing that including the dropping resistor, the hedaphone out of the 2230 is pushing around 2 watts max for these 2 phones. The impedance of my he500 was 46 ohms and similar for the lcd. In short, give it a try! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. BTW my 2230 was fully recapped.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I believe it's the same for all.  My Kenwoods sound amazing out of the headphone jack.  I don't even have speakers hooked up to them...............yes, plural, as I now have two clones.


 
   
  Nice to know, just in case I can't get the 2230s. Any other suggestions for back up that typically come up and sound good with planars?


----------



## Skylab

In what price range?  Pioneer SX-950 or 980 are great with planars and often sell for $250-350 in good condition.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> I had the 2230 before trading it for a mint Sansui Eight. Lcd2.2 and HE500 sound great. Not slow at all.
> Both of these headphones should have about 2 watts available from the headphone out for the best SQ and head room. I'm guessing that including the dropping resistor, the hedaphone out of the 2230 is pushing around 2 watts max for these 2 phones. The impedance of my he500 was 46 ohms and similar for the lcd. In short, give it a try! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. BTW my 2230 was fully recapped.


 
   
  Thanks for the feedback. Were you able to try out the HE-500 and LCD-2 directly with that amp when you had, as I see you sold them.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





zoom25 said:


> Nice to know, just in case I can't get the 2230s. Any other suggestions for back up that typically come up and sound good with planars?


 
  If you want the Marantz sound and don't require a tuner try their comparable integrated amplifiers e.g. 1030 / 1050 / 1060.
  1. They should perform better than the comparable receiver.
  2. They sell for less than the comparable receiver
  3. The small Marantz integrated amps have a narrow 14.5" faceplate - so they have a smaller footprint than the receivers
  4. Cheaper to recap or repair.
  5. BUT, you DON'T get the cool lights, meters or gyro knob!
   
  Unless you listen to the radio, consider vintage integrated amps.
  I use a Pioneer SA-7100 and it sounds great.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





zoom25 said:


> Nice to know, just in case I can't get the 2230s. Any other suggestions for back up that typically come up and sound good with planars?


 

 I honestly think any vintage has the same 'full blown' high output speaker jack.  I suggest you do what I did - take your portable setup  with RCA cables to the store and hook up to the receiver/amp, and listen to your headphones.  I blew the pawn shops mind when I did it!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I believe it's the same for all.  My Kenwoods sound amazing out of the headphone jack.  I don't even have speakers hooked up to them...............yes, plural, as I now have two clones.


 
   
  Those 5700's look nice. I miss bass and treble controls!
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> If you want the Marantz sound and don't require a tuner


 
   
  When I had my old Kenwood integrated online, I wandered in to a pawn shop and bought a really nice Sansui tuner for $40. Cosmetically 7/10 but functionally perfect and it sounded great.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Oregonian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I honestly think any vintage has the same 'full blown' high output speaker jack.  I suggest you do what I did - take your portable setup  with RCA cables to the store and hook up to the receiver/amp, and listen to your headphones.  I blew the pawn shops mind when I did it!


 
   
  That sounds like a fun plan!


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





skylab said:


> In what price range?  Pioneer SX-950 or 980 are great with planars and often sell for $250-350 in good condition.


 
   
  I was trying to look for stuff around $200. Although I've been seeing some products that range in their prices crazily from $100-$300.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I honestly think any vintage has the same 'full blown' high output speaker jack.  I suggest you do what I did - take your portable setup  with RCA cables to the store and hook up to the receiver/amp, and listen to your headphones.  I blew the pawn shops mind when I did it!


 
   
  Ya I think I'll take my planars along with rca cables and iPod/Sansa Fuze or something.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> If you want the Marantz sound and don't require a tuner try their comparable integrated amplifiers e.g. 1030 / 1050 / 1060.
> 1. They should perform better than the comparable receiver.
> 2. They sell for less than the comparable receiver
> 3. The small Marantz integrated amps have a narrow 14.5" faceplate - so they have a smaller footprint than the receivers
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the tip. I checked online and I see a 1050 going for around $350...which cost a lot more than the 2230 I was looking at.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Although I see a 1070 for around $160. Is that a decent model and/or a good deal.
   
  Regarding, tuner. I really don't care too much about it. It's nice to have but it but not a concern. Sound first for me.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





zoom25 said:


> Thanks for the tip. I checked online and I see a 1050 going for around $350...which cost a lot more than the 2230 I was looking at.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I chose to NOT have a tuner considering I haven't listened to FM in probably 5+ years and have no intention of ever doing so.  Why would I with Pandora, Spotify, MOG and iPods/iPhones filled with music?


----------



## Zoom25

Looks like I might have a deal going for the Marantz 1070. The 2230 guy never responded back. Also the 1070 is costing me less. Any light to shed on the 1060 vs 1070?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I chose to NOT have a tuner considering I haven't listened to FM in probably 5+ years and have no intention of ever doing so.  Why would I with Pandora, Spotify, MOG and iPods/iPhones filled with music?


 
   
  I am not sure that streaming audio quality would match that of a TOL off air FM tuner - especially one having the www.fmtunerinfo.com mods done to it.   My own listening tells me that good old FM is still better - IMHO.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I am not sure that streaming audio quality would match that of a TOL off air FM tuner - especially one having the www.fmtunerinfo.com mods done to it.   My own listening tells me that good old FM is still better - IMHO.


 
   
  That really, really surprises me if true.


----------



## Skylab

FM radio WITH A GOOD ANTENNA sounds much better than highly compressed streamed music, for sure. You need at LEAST 256k bit rate to come even close. 

But if you just have a piece of old wire serving as an antenna, you won't get what FM is capable of. And of course, some stations sound better than others, and if you don't live in a major metro, choices and reception both may be limited.

Here in Chicago our major classic rock station The Drive sounds generally very good, plays great music, and has long stretches in the morning with no commercials, so I play that at work off my Marantz 2285 quite often.


----------



## Argybargy

zoom25 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Were you able to try out the HE-500 and LCD-2 directly with that amp when you had, as I see you sold them.




Yes, I used the 2230 with both the lcd2.2 and he500 for months. Both sounded fabulous; a tossup as to which was better.


----------



## Argybargy

Since we're talking recapping, I think it's worth mentioning that having a proper desoldering iron will save you a lot of time and potential headaches. The plastic solder suckers don't last long and are marginally effective. 

A Hakko 808 costs about $180 and is a huge improvement in usefulness.

I find desoldering and removing old caps and resistors to be the most tedious and time consuming part of the restoration process. Old PCBs can also be fragile, burn easily and have copper traces that lift with just a little nudge. Getting in and out quickly with a Hakko desoldering iron literally saves me hours over the course of a project. The job also looks neater.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





skylab said:


> FM radio WITH A GOOD ANTENNA sounds much better than highly compressed streamed music, for sure. You need at LEAST 256k bit rate to come even close.


 
  +1: I think the challenge is finding good FM content without annoying ads.


----------



## palmfish

MOG streams at 320 kbps. Ive never heard FM even come close.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I am not sure that streaming audio quality would match that of a TOL off air FM tuner - especially one having the www.fmtunerinfo.com mods done to it.   My own listening tells me that good old FM is still better - IMHO.


 

 The problem is the content - it sucks here and commercials every 8 minutes makes it unlistenable.


----------



## Skylab

At 320kbps, FM could only compete if you had a rooftop antenna and a good sounding station. But if so, it would be a close contest for sure.

When I work my antenna a bit, the Jazz public radio station here sounds absolutely killer, and commercial free


----------



## palmfish

skylab said:


> At 320kbps, FM could only compete if you had a rooftop antenna and a good sounding station. But if so, it would be a close contest for sure.
> 
> When I work my antenna a bit, the Jazz public radio station here sounds absolutely killer, and commercial free




One can certainly get a strong clean signal with a good station, but dynamic range compression kills most airwave based music for me.

I only listen to FM in the car and as background music at the office.


----------



## 5aces

palmfish said:


> One can certainly get a strong clean signal with a good station, but dynamic range compression kills most airwave based music for me.




People vary in their sensitivity to the digital artefacts produced by compression, and to the effects of DRC.
I can empathize with those who listen to mostly orchestral music,DRC can be devastating on FM.
Like Skylab,I have a Marantz Model 2285 Receiver and find the FM signal I get crushes most digital internet radio streams on sound,for my hearing and music choice.
Pickings are slim across the band for strong signals in my location but when you lock on to a good one,what a nice sound!

*I use an RCA CANT110,with RG174U Coaxial Cable and the antennas extended all the way out,together,straight up and boom,in comes the music.*


*Next up would be a Vertical Omni-Directional Magnum Dynalab ST-2.They have a facility just down the road from me here in Brampton.
The counter guy suggested I just stay with the rabbit ears,if I couldn't mount the ST-2 outside,nice advice.*
*

Cross-Dipole,Non Directional FM Antenna for crawlspace,attic or outdoors.*


*Best on an old tower,outdoor directional FM broadcast Antenna.*


----------



## BigCabDaddy

palmfish said:


> One can certainly get a strong clean signal with a good station, but dynamic range compression kills most airwave based music for me.
> 
> I only listen to FM in the car and as background music at the office.




See? That's what I've always thought but from what Skylab is saying, I thought maybe broadcast quality had changed or something.


----------



## Silent One

Once I get my _diminutive_ G-22000 setup in Los Angeles, I'll report back my FM experience.


----------



## 5aces

silent one said:


> I'll report back my FM experience.




Receiver/Tuner type absolutely *do* matter.
I hope you can hook up a good outdoor whip and tell all how blown away you are with FM broadcast !


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Receiver/Tuner type absolutely *do* matter.
> I hope you can hook up a good outdoor whip and tell all how blown away you are with FM broadcast !


 
   
  Only thing to take care of is the whip. The Sansui's Tuner and the area L.A. stations that await, will make it a walk in the park - commercial broadcast, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





pirate or other.


----------



## palmfish

bigcabdaddy said:


> See? That's what I've always thought but from what Skylab is saying, I thought maybe broadcast quality had changed or something.




Im not sure, but I think Internet radio is different from MOG, Pandora, etc.

Ive heard some radio stations digital streams and they sound dreadful. But MOG is truly CD quality sound - its as though your spinning the disc yourself.


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Im not sure, but I think Internet radio is different from MOG, Pandora, etc.
> 
> Ive heard some radio stations digital streams and they sound dreadful. But MOG is truly CD quality sound - its as though your spinning the disc yourself.


 
   
  Hmm I looked up MOG. On their wikipedia page, it said that it's 320 kbps, unless I am missing something.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> +1: I think the challenge is finding good FM content without annoying ads.


 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> When I work my antenna a bit, the Jazz public radio station here sounds absolutely killer, and commercial free


 
   
  Yup, public radio. We have a local community radio station where I live, staffed by less than a half a dozen people plus a volunteer board of directors and volunteer DJs/newsreaders. I host a loosely-defined jazz show the first Thursday evening of the month, and our station streams if anybody is interested PM me. It's nice to have a rapport with the people that you listen to on the air, perhaps even a friendship. And the musical selection is all over the place, something for everybody!
   
   
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> *Best on an old tower,outdoor directional FM broadcast Antenna.*


 
   
  I have one of these for all the stations that the "big city" 80 miles away has to offer, and they come in spectacularly, better than the local station with a conventional/tabletop antenna. Good old VHF, I use a signal amplifier with it.
   
   
  Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> One can certainly get a strong clean signal with a good station, but dynamic range compression kills most airwave based music for me.
> 
> I only listen to FM in the car and as background music at the office.


 
   
  I agree that FM is a bit compressed, but it's still pretty good. The only thing that sucks for me is commercials, so when I listen on the big antenna it's also public radio. Luckily there's a few great ones to choose from there as well.
   
  I find regular stereo FM to be just about what you guys are saying, perhaps in between 240 and 320 kbps Mp3. But I'm not sure if it's the same type of bandwidth reduction?
   
  Also does anybody here get HD radio? It's a digital signal embedded in certain AM and FM broadcasts. It supposedly clocks in at 300 kbps, I've never heard it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
_"There is low awareness among consumers, and even lower uptake."_


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yup, public radio. We have a local community radio station where I live, staffed by less than a half a dozen people plus a volunteer board of directors and volunteer DJs/newsreaders*. I host a loosely-defined jazz show the first Thursday evening of the month, and our station streams if anybody is interested PM me*. It's nice to have a rapport with the people that you listen to on the air, perhaps even a friendship. And the musical selection is all over the place, something for everybody!


 
   
  YES, I remember your gig! PM to come...




   
  With my audio rig in storage, about all I tend to do is stream internet radio. Occasionally, the iPod/HD650 for a stroll but the pairing struggles not to mention traffic noise.


----------



## harrinj

my harman kardon 670 just has a little blown fuse so thankfully that's why the lights & tuner aren't coming on and it's nothing more serious, as for the twine that controls the tuner, that is out of my control. there are red lights in this receiver that I cannot fix (cannot get to them) so I am going to take it to I guess Stereo workshop in Eugene, OR and have the tuner put back and the lights that I cannot replace, replaced. but man does this receiver sound good with AKG K702


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





claybum said:


> @ harrinj
> 
> If you really want a Kenwoon model 11, I'd check out the one on Eugene craigslist. I saw the unit and it's really nice. $260 is a great price for a fully functioning model eleven thats been gone thru by a tech. I'd be all over it if I had a place to put it and my significant other didn't think I was already crazy. Jeff is a very cool guy and might be inclined to show you some of his extremely cool vintage gear.


 
  yeah I have seen that one on CL and I was gonna buy one in Florence Oregon a model eleven on craigslist but the guy said it was gone in his last email reply.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> It was in Clackamas, was listed for $150 and I got it for $120. Place called Stuff on 82nd. Don't think they had a Kenwood model 11 but I can't say for sure. Next time I'm in there you want me to check?


 
  hmmm I will tell my dad about that place. he's in to these now too...


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





claybum said:


> @ harrinj
> 
> If you really want a Kenwoon model 11, I'd check out the one on Eugene craigslist. I saw the unit and it's really nice. $260 is a great price for a fully functioning model eleven thats been gone thru by a tech. I'd be all over it if I had a place to put it and my significant other didn't think I was already crazy. Jeff is a very cool guy and might be inclined to show you some of his extremely cool vintage gear.


 
  wait was that you with the one in Florence, OR on Craigslist? he said almost the same thing!


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> hmmm I will tell my dad about that place. he's in to these now too...




Tell him to ask for Hal, who is the owner. Good guy to chat with about vintage and you can get a discount. When I walked in with my headphones, RCA cables and iPod the look he gave me was priceless.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Receiver/Tuner type absolutely *do* matter.
> I hope you can hook up a good outdoor whip and tell all how blown away you are with FM broadcast !


 
   
  Another mention of the importance of antenna and the actual FM tuner.  I have a rooftop antenna that pulls in weak, but very high quality Jazz stations in my area (and yes some are PBS).   These stations have, what seems to be little or no compression - awesome sound.  MY Kenwood KT-7550 has had all electrolytics replaced, and all signal path caps replaced with film.  The OPAMP is upgraded and power rerouted away from the signal path.  The output coupling caps were removed also (the new OPAMP has virtually no DC offset) and new outputs were wired in with Cardas litz.  Also added an IEC inlet to allow the power cord of my choice.  With each of these mods the sonic improvements were stunning.  This is what I listen to 99% of the time - it is that good - I would venture to say it is the best component in my system.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

palmfish said:


> Im not sure, but I think Internet radio is different from MOG, Pandora, etc.
> 
> Ive heard some radio stations digital streams and they sound dreadful. But MOG is truly CD quality sound - its as though your spinning the disc yourself.




MOG is good... My go to for streaming, but it's not THAT good... 320 is what I understood. It sounds better than I remember FM sounding but then it's been nearly 40 years since I listened to FM seriously at all. My FM station these days is sports talk.


----------



## Skylab

Even FM stations using compressors (which are analog volume-level and not data-reduction "compression") sound better to me than Internet radio at 128k. At 192k and above, the signal being out out by the FM or Internet station will matter a lot in determining which sounds better, again assuming the FM station is coming in we'll from a good antenna.

But my public radio non-compressed jazz FM station sounds better than even 320kbps streams, coming from the excellent tuner of my SX-1980.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Even FM stations using compressors (which are analog volume-level and not data-reduction "compression") sound better to me than Internet radio at 128k. At 192k and above, the signal being out out by the FM or Internet station will matter a lot in determining which sounds better, again assuming the FM station is coming in we'll from a good antenna.
> 
> But my public radio non-compressed jazz FM station sounds better than even 320kbps streams, coming from the excellent tuner of my SX-1980.


 
   
  Someday - I hope to get my hands on a 1980.  Hoping the prices come down eventually.


----------



## Zoom25

I was wondering how the Marantz 1070 would compare to the Marantz 2230. I understand that the 1070 is an integrated amplifier, whereas the 2230 also has a tuner. Besides the features, how do you guys think these two compare in sound. I'll be using either them with LCD-2 & HE-500 - also speakers, but mainly headphones.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





zoom25 said:


> I was wondering how the Marantz 1070 would compare to the Marantz 2230. I understand that the 1070 is an integrated amplifier, whereas the 2230 also has a tuner. Besides the features, how do you guys think these two compare in sound. I'll be using either them with LCD-2 & HE-500 - also speakers, but mainly headphones.


 
  As I understand it the 1060 is the 2230 sans the tuner.  I have read that many think it sounds better than the 2230.   I had a 2230 a while back and was not impressed - so for my tastes the 1060 would have to be much better.   Not sure where the 1070 fits into all this and have not heard it - but am guessing it has more power than the 30WPC.


----------



## Argybargy

1070 is 35 wpc. If you like the looks of the receivers get the 2230 if you prefer the less ornate look of the integrated get the 1070. After 35+ years of varying use and environmental conditions, you can't say with a blanket statement that one or the other model sounds better than the other unless you have two examples right in front of you and can AB them.
1070 will be easier to work on and recap.


----------



## 5aces

speakerbox said:


> Another mention of the importance of antenna and the actual FM tuner._MY Kenwood KT-7550_.This is what I listen to 99% of the time - it is that good - I would venture to say it is the best component in my system.




Very nice sounding tuner,especially with your attention to updates.

I should like to mention that when Cellphone Towers and the Internet are down,radio waves are still the lifeline.
AM/FM,Shortwave and Ham radio operators get the message out in a disaster.
I was reading about HAM radio operators involvement during the Boston Marathon crisis,stopping the runners,providing emergency updates etc.
They have been an integral part of the marathon for many years.

Informative .PDF communications handbook produced for first time HAM operators working the Boston Marathon.
http://www.mmra.org/marc/Boston%20Marathon%20Survival%20Guide.pdf


----------



## Zoom25

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> 1070 is 35 wpc. If you like the looks of the receivers get the 2230 if you prefer the less ornate look of the integrated get the 1070. After 35+ years of varying use and environmental conditions, you can't say with a blanket statement that one or the other model sounds better than the other unless you have two examples right in front of you and can AB them.
> *1070 will be easier to work on and recap*.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> As I understand it the 1060 is the 2230 sans the tuner.  I have read that many think it sounds better than the 2230.   I had a 2230 a while back and was not impressed - so for my tastes the 1060 would have to be much better.   Not sure where the 1070 fits into all this and have not heard it - but am guessing it has more power than the 30WPC.


 
   
  Thanks for the comparisons and tips. I was reading up on how the specs were measured back in the 70s compared to now. It was definitely more stringent back then. It was suggested that these vintage amps actually have more power than they state, in comparison to today, where the trend is backwards.
   
  Looks like it will end up being the 1070 most probably. Should have it finalized by next week. I don't need a tuner, but I will miss the sexy lights on the 2230. On the other hand, at least the 1070 won't be distracting.


----------



## palmfish

Ive never had a rooftop antenna for FM. Even when I lived in Los Angeles, I used a Terk in the window with my Carver Receiver.


----------



## Skylab

When I bought my first house, which was a 50's ranch-style, it had an arial antenna. I hooked it up and was BLOWN AWAY by how good FM sounded. I'd never really heard it completely noiseless before. It was revelatory.


----------



## Silent One

I absolutely love those moments in audio!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





skylab said:


> When I bought my first house, which was a 50's ranch-style, it had an arial antenna. I hooked it up and was BLOWN AWAY by how good FM sounded. I'd never really heard it completely noiseless before. It was revelatory.


 
   
  I had the same experience.  No going back now.  Just got to keep the west wind from messing with the antenna.


----------



## Skylab

The house I live in now, which is a 1880's Victorian, could easily have had a rooftop antenna as well...I was kinda sorry it didn't. Doesn't seem worthwhile to put one up, but I've considered it!!!


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The house I live in now, which is a 1880's Victorian, could easily have had a rooftop antenna as well...I was kinda sorry it didn't. Doesn't seem worthwhile to put one up, but I've considered it!!!


 

 It's interesting you call your house Victorian as I would call mine Edwardian. When as an American you should be naming the period after a President of the period, no?
   
  Ie your house should be either from the  Garfield, Arthur, or Cleaveland period.
  Just a thought


----------



## Skylab

Victorian is the style/type. They also built Tudors in this era, but mine isn't


----------



## Silent One

History, anyone? Back in the early 1800's, Americans...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Victorian is the style/type. They also built Tudors in this era, but mine isn't


 
   
  I bet it's vintage... _and lovely. _On a somewhat related note, I really dig The Old House and the New Mansion portrayed in the original _"Dark Shadows."_


----------



## Skylab

Oh yeah...it's vintage alright...and it needed a full restore when I bought it, too


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





silent one said:


> History, anyone? Back in the early 1800's, Americans...


 

 Don't mind me. I'm just kicking dirt until my SX1980, or should that be 1880 returns from Texas for it's full restoration.
   
  PS How can you be called _Slient One_ with nearly 8000 posts?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





mrq said:


> It's interesting you call your house Victorian as I would call mine Edwardian. When as an American you should be naming the period after a President of the period, no?
> 
> Ie your house should be either from the  Garfield, Arthur, or Cleaveland period.
> Just a thought


 
   
  I grew up in a Nixonian neighborhood. Architecturally suspect.
   
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> PS How can you be called _Slient One_ with nearly 8000 posts?


 
   
  Quiet keyboard?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  "Clicks" defeated for _Silent Mode_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I really am a pretty silent cat, though - stay up all night, tippin' through the alleys in between overnight sessions.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> I grew up in a Nixonian neighborhood. Architecturally suspect.


 
  I've heard those properties have bug problems.


----------



## joehalo

Scored a very nice pair of HPM-60s at the thrift store last week. I really love their sound! I enjoyed them so much that I decided to make my first pair of speaker stands for them.


----------



## MrQ

^They look like they are in really good condition. Are you going to get the crossovers recapped? I did that to my HPM 100's and it really made a difference.


----------



## rated1975

Great thread. Subscribed.
Using LCD2's, I recently gave up on my maxxed Woo WA6 after i dusted off an old 90's Onkyo receiver i had just sitting in a cupboard. Wow, it simply does everything better than that WA6. The LCD's have simply jumped into another realm of performance. Funny thing is, ive never really rated the Onkyo as a good amp for speakers, at best average only. But its headphone jack seems to work wonders with the the right cans.
Think i have a case of the vintage amp bug. The quest begins!


----------



## Oregonian

rated1975 said:


> Great thread. Subscribed.
> Using LCD2's, I recently gave up on my maxxed Woo WA6 after i dusted off an old 90's Onkyo receiver i had just sitting in a cupboard. Wow, it simply does everything better than that WA6. The LCD's have simply jumped into another realm of performance. Funny thing is, ive never really rated the Onkyo as a good amp for speakers, at best average only. But its headphone jack seems to work wonders with the the right cans.
> Think i have a case of the vintage amp bug. The quest begins!




Welcome, congrats and sorry about your wallet! Kind of like discovering a whole new realm of sound, isn't it?!


----------



## Skylab

JoeHalo, nice looking HPM-60's, and nice work on the stands! The HPM-60's sound really terrific and can often be had for much cheaper than the famed HPM-100.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Last night I did something real dumb.  Tried adjusting the bias of my sx-950 after re-lubing the switches and seem to have failed miserably and could really use some input.  Truth be told, I really don't know what the hell I'm doing lol.
   
  Pg 29 of the sx-950 manual has the dc-offset biasing procedure:  http://www.hifiengine.com/library/pioneer/sx-950.shtml
   
  Then I read this: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=459160
   
  Basically someone said don't worry about the resistors on the power in jacks, just set volume to 0 with no speakers and you're good to go.
   
  OK so I tried it. Problem is, it seems as if the "adjusting" I am doing to the trim pots is not affecting any readout on my multimeter at all.  From min to max, no changes across any of the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th measuring points (first point seems to be adjusting ok).
   
  I gave up in sheer frustration last night and hope I didn't mess anything up 
   
  I'm headed to Fry's to try to find 5.1-k ohm resistors and bare RCA plugs; it seems they are sold in different wattages online.  Good thing the manual doesn't state what kind of wattage to look for...


----------



## joehalo

mrq said:


> ^They look like they are in really good condition. Are you going to get the crossovers recapped? I did that to my HPM 100's and it really made a difference.



They are in very good condition, just a few minor scuffs to the vinyl. I am considering recapping. Would it be difficult to do myself you think?




skylab said:


> JoeHalo, nice looking HPM-60's, and nice work on the stands! The HPM-60's sound really terrific and can often be had for much cheaper than the famed HPM-100.



Thanks Skylab! I was about to buy some stands off eBay but thought why not give it a go myself first.


----------



## Skylab

Mr. Sneis, did you attempt to adjust the DC Offset, or the Bias (or both)?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I believe both. Its pg 29


----------



## Skylab

OK. I could have helped you with the DC Offset, but I can't help with the Bias. It's not something to mess around with unless you REALLY know what you are doing. With DC Offset, the very worst thing that can happen is that you won't be able to get the amp out of protection. Mis-adjusted bias can fry the output devices.

In spite of what the manual says, I always measure DC Offset on Pioneer amps as the speaker terminals. You can do that because the outputs are not capacitor coupled. 

But I've never attempted a bias adjustment, so can't help you there, sorry. You might want to sign up for AudioKarma if you haven't already and ask in the Pioneer forum.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Last night I did something real dumb.  Tried adjusting the bias of my sx-950 after re-lubing the switches and seem to have failed miserably and could really use some input.  Truth be told, I really don't know what the hell I'm doing lol.
> 
> Pg 29 of the sx-950 manual has the dc-offset biasing procedure:  http://www.hifiengine.com/library/pioneer/sx-950.shtml
> 
> ...


 
   
*My first attempt at what you tried above fried the left side of a nice Marantz 140 amp.  The right side bias adjusted just fine.  When I tried the left side, moving the pot didn't make any difference at all.  I got frustrated, removed a probe without powering down the amp and ZZZZZZTTTTTTT, dead left side.  There was smoke and sparks, so I was sure something bad happened.  If you didn't cause a smoke/spark event, you may be OK.  *
   
*How close is the readout on your multimeter to where the bias needs to be set?*


----------



## Mr.Sneis

bmwr75 said:


> *My first attempt at what you tried above fried the left side of a nice Marantz 140 amp.  The right side bias adjusted just fine.  When I tried the left side, moving the pot didn't make any difference at all.  I got frustrated, removed a probe without powering down the amp and ZZZZZZTTTTTTT, dead left side.  There was smoke and sparks, so I was sure something bad happened.  If you didn't cause a smoke/spark event, you may be OK.  *
> 
> *How close is the readout on your multimeter to where the bias needs to be set?*




Pretty close actually. Off maybe .05 volts on 3rd and 4th. Calls for 20mv and is at 15... And .04v on the second which calls for 0v. Again adjusting seems to do nothing based on what my multimeter tells me so I don't think its any different than before I started?


----------



## Skylab

For DC Offset, are you using the mV scale on your MultiMeter? You would like to see DC Offset under 10 mV if possible, but in practice attaining exactly 0mV given how sensitive the trim pots are is very tough. I managed to get mine under 10mV, but that took some work! Getting exactly 0 would have just been luck.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I have ocd when it comes to getting the 0 on dc offset. I think I may look at it as a challenge that I refuse to loose.  I always reach my goal though...well sort of. But it's really time wasted when anything under 10 is fine and doesn't take that long to attain. But the frustrating part is after adjusting the other side, the previous side has slipped to something like 3 or 4mv. And before you know it, you've spent 20+ minutes between both pots trying to get both of them to remain at 0 when it should have been a 2 minute job.


----------



## harrinj

Hey guys. My Harman kardon 430 has a buzz and we've been talking about taking it in to get fixed for awhile. Now would that mean recapping? How much does that usually run in price? I've read some of these repair places charge just for an estimate... I need to take my Harman kardon 670 in to get the tuner twine fixed and the impossible to get to mini red lights replaced. Ive looked online and found The Stereo Workshop in Eugene, OR or someone in Portland.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

WELL guys.  I am indeed a complete idiot.  I stared at the manual for a long while and it hit me that I mis-read the diagram for where the trim pots actually are.  The the trimmers are in order of VR-1,3 2,4 instead of 1,2,3,4.  So when I went to measure the matching points it would appear that my adjusting had no effect on points 2 and 3 because I had them reversed!
   
  Got it back in spec - hopefully I won't blow up the house.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> They are in very good condition, just a few minor scuffs to the vinyl. I am considering recapping. Would it be difficult to do myself you think?


 
  I sourced the parts myself, then had a mate do the recap for me.
   
  Here's some posts you might find useful...*HPM-60 Recap* *HPM-60 Recap 2*


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> WELL guys.  I am indeed a complete idiot.  I stared at the manual for a long while and it hit me that I mis-read the diagram for where the trim pots actually are.  The the trimmers are in order of VR-1,3 2,4 instead of 1,2,3,4.  So when I went to measure the matching points it would appear that my adjusting had no effect on points 2 and 3 because I had them reversed!
> 
> Got it back in spec - hopefully I won't blow up the house.  Fingers crossed.


 
   
   
  The devil is in the details!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Glad you figured it out.


----------



## Skylab

Yep, good job Mr.Sneis! Glad it worked out in the end.

Harrinj, there is no guarantee that a recap would fix the buzz, since that could be a problem with the output transistors, or something much simpler. Best to have it looked at if you want to keep it.

In my experience, most "fix it" places will NOT do a full recap. That tends to be the domain of specialists. Most fixit places will replace only what is needed to get the item working again. Most charge a bench test fee, yes, but any reputable place will credit that fee against the actual cost of repair should you elect to have them do the work. And that's as it should be. They should not have to examine it for you for free and then have you take it somewhere else to fix it.


----------



## Trav

Just pulled the trigger on a Sansui 881. Hope I chose wisely.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yep, good job Mr.Sneis! Glad it worked out in the end.
> 
> Harrinj, there is no guarantee that a recap would fix the buzz, since that could be a problem with the output transistors, or something much simpler. Best to have it looked at if you want to keep it.
> 
> In my experience, most "fix it" places will NOT do a full recap. That tends to be the domain of specialists. Most fixit places will replace only what is needed to get the item working again. Most charge a bench test fee, yes, but any reputable place will credit that fee against the actual cost of repair should you elect to have them do the work. And that's as it should be. They should not have to examine it for you for free and then have you take it somewhere else to fix it.


 
  All very true. Most local places I contacted in my area about doing a full recap either tried to talk me out of it, don't want to fool with it, or wanted to charge 1500.00(ouch)to do it. I'm going with amplifier surgery out of Chicago with my ka-907, but his first available slot is the first week in August. The other specialist I contacted has orders taking up the next two years and is not taking anymore orders.
  Quote: 





trav said:


> Just pulled the trigger on a Sansui 881. Hope I chose wisely.


 
  Congrats on the find. Please keep us posted with your impressions and of course pics are mandatory around here.


----------



## BearWant

Should I take a leap of faith? I found a pioneer sx-950 from Craigslist for $50. Left speaker channel seems to be out. He claims all else is in working order and it looks nice and clean. 

I would use for powering my he500 from phone jack. Getting speakers working would just be a bonus.


----------



## Oregonian

bearwant said:


> Should I take a leap of faith? I found a pioneer sx-950 from Craigslist for $50. Left speaker channel seems to be out. He claims all else is in working order and it looks nice and clean.
> 
> I would use for powering my he500 from phone jack. Getting speakers working would just be a bonus.




I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bring your phones, an iPod/RCA hookup with you and check it out. I have two Kenwood integrates and neither have a speaker hooked to them. Sound SO good out of the headphone jack.


----------



## moodyrn

It depends if you have already decided to pay what's necessary to repair it. If only one channel is playing from the speaker out, then probably only one channel is playing from the headphone out as well as they both are tied in together. The headphone out is derived from the speaker out using resistors to lower the wattage. So in most cases, if one goes bad, then so does the other.
   
  It could be a simple fix(as simple as needing a good cleaning) or it could be a very expensive repair. If it was a 1250, then I would say go for it. I would pay amount of money to get that working. But it gets a little murky for the 950. It's a great receiver, but it could cost more to repair than what you could get a working 950 for. But then again, it could be something simple, and you might strike gold.


----------



## Skylab

I would buy it for sure *IF* you go there and the headphone out works in both channels. That means the output transistors are fine and the problem with the left speaker working lies elsewhere that at least in theory should be easier/cheaper to fix. If you go there and the headphones are also out in the left channel, I would pass.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I am pretty sure I got my sx-950 for somewhere around $300.  Incidentally it still needed a deep cleaning and a bunch of work to be 100%.  I don't have the best taste left in my mouth after the whole experience.  For $50 hell yes.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I would lay odds at 90% that with a speaker channel out the associated HP channel is also dead.  Hope I am wrong, though.


----------



## Skylab

Quite probably, but not certain. Could be dirty speaker selector switch, broken contacts in speaker terminals, or bad relay. The speaker protect relay in these is prone to getting dirty IIRC. I don't think it impacts the headphone out (but it might).


----------



## moodyrn

If the speaker relay is bad, that would definitely affect the headphone out. I'm with Speakerbox, if one channel is dead the odds are at least 90% the same channel is dead in the headphone out. There is a small chance it could be something going on with the speaker terminal, but other than that, mostly whatever affects the speaker out will also affect the headphone out. They are essentially the same thing in that receiver. That's what make most of these vintage amps so great. A great sounding speaker amp also means a great sounding headphone out.
   
  But....it still could be something simple. Could be as easy as needing a good deoxit treatment, or a fuse in the power supply. And if it was the relay, that would be relatively cheap to fix. So it's really up to you to decide if you want to take that chance.


----------



## ardgedee

The real question is: If you drop $50 on it, and it needs more work than you can reasonably spend on it, at what price can you ethically sell it for?


----------



## Mr.Sneis

My money is on it simply needing a de-oxit bath.  Particularly the stereo/mono, loudness, and/or muting switches on the right.
   
  The SX-950 doesn't have obvious holes for lubing btw.  You'll need to take off top and bottom and front.  Technically I think you can get away with undoing one screw per switch (top?) and squirting through that screw's hole without removing the two control sections from the frame which is a tiny bit more work and cumbersome.  I think it'll make more sense if you have it in front of you.


----------



## LugBug1

Come to join the fun. This is a Pioneer SX550 recapped, with new bulbs and veneer etc. I'm astounded by the sound I'm getting from 1977! 
  My only qualm is that it is sooo ***ing loud! I don't have much freedom with the volume pot even with my computer turned right down.


----------



## Skylab

Looks like a beauty!!! 

Senns and very efficient headphones and even the low wattage 550 will indeed push more power from its headphone out than most headphone amps. But that attenuator isn't stepped, is it? I think that came only on the higher end of the xx50 range.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Looks like a beauty!!!
> 
> Senns and very efficient headphones and even the low wattage 550 will indeed push more power from its headphone out than most headphone amps. But that attenuator isn't stepped, is it? I think that came only on the higher end of the xx50 range.


 
  Thanks Skylab.
   
  No its not stepped. I'm gonna get some attenuator plugs to put on the rca inputs see if that takes it down a little. Luckily there doesn't seem to be any imbalance    at the lowest point. I can tell that my Senn's are being fed more power than they are used to. The sound is bigger with more authority, and the soundstage is just amazing! Do you happen to know what the power specs are through the hp out? I know it gives out 20 watts per channel for the speakers apparently, but can't find any info about the hp out.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

lugbug1 said:


> Thanks Skylab.
> 
> No its not stepped. I'm gonna get some attenuator plugs to put on the rca inputs see if that takes it down a little. Luckily there doesn't seem to be any imbalance    at the lowest point. I can tell that my Senn's are being fed more power than they are used to. The sound is bigger with more authority, and the soundstage is just amazing! Do you happen to know what the power specs are through the hp out? I know it gives out 20 watts per channel for the speakers apparently, but can't find any info about the hp out.




This causes me to wonder if there are dacs with output level controls? First time I could see an actual usage for such a thing.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Sorry for the double post. /sigh


----------



## Skylab

lugbug1 said:


> Thanks Skylab.
> 
> No its not stepped. I'm gonna get some attenuator plugs to put on the rca inputs see if that takes it down a little. Luckily there doesn't seem to be any imbalance    at the lowest point. I can tell that my Senn's are being fed more power than they are used to. The sound is bigger with more authority, and the soundstage is just amazing! Do you happen to know what the power specs are through the hp out? I know it gives out 20 watts per channel for the speakers apparently, but can't find any info about the hp out.




No, not sure. The HP out is fed directly from the main power amplifier just like the speakers except typically there is a dropping resistor in line with the headphone out. Not sure whether the 550 has that and if so what the value is - that would need to be known to calculate the power delivery into a given headphone impedance.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> This causes me to wonder if there are dacs with output level controls? First time I could see an actual usage for such a thing.


 
  Absolutely. I must stress that I am a low level listener but boy is it loud haha! 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> No, not sure. The HP out is fed directly from the main power amplifier just like the speakers except typically there is a dropping resistor in line with the headphone out. Not sure whether the 550 has that and if so what the value is - that would need to be known to calculate the power delivery into a given headphone impedance.


 
  Thanks, yeah I'm new to this older technology so I'm learning as I go. Spent the last two weeks ploughing through this thread, Ebay and other specialist Websites. Was on the look out for a Marantz to begin with, but the more I read on the SX series the more I thought I might get more for my money. As the Marantz are very beautiful and sort after but generally cost a lot. Anyways I'm pleased I went with the Pioneer because it sounds better than any mid-fi headphone amp I've heard. 
   
  For instance, this is on Ebay uk right now for the taking. Was put on yesterday. £745.00 or approx $1128.00 Wish I was rich.....


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> This causes me to wonder if there are dacs with output level controls? First time I could see an actual usage for such a thing.


 
   
  Yes there are.  Emotiva makes one.  This new DAC is supposed to not compromise the sound quality as the volume is reduced (the prior version evidently did compromise it).
   
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xda2


----------



## BigCabDaddy

bmwr75 said:


> Yes there are.  Emotiva makes one.  This new DAC is supposed to not compromise the sound quality as the volume is reduced (the prior version evidently did compromise it).
> 
> http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/xda2




Cool! Best part is it comes in at a price I might actually consider and hold out for. I haven't read the description (nor reviews) yet. Any idea if it boosts as well as cuts? That is, is there an amplification element?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bigcabdaddy said:


> Cool! Best part is it comes in at a price I might actually consider and hold out for. I haven't read the description (nor reviews) yet. Any idea if it boosts as well as cuts? That is, is there an amplification element?


 
   
   
  My guess is just cuts.  You run it at max volume if just using it as a DAC, at least that is how the XDA-1 I have works.


----------



## solserenade

Nice Pioneer!


----------



## silversurfer616

Indeed!Have a SX1010 myself!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





solserenade said:


> Nice Pioneer!


 
  Thanks!
  Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Indeed!Have a SX1010 myself!


 
  Cheers, yeah I remember you mentioning it in the HD800 thread. Have to agree that they feed the Senn's brilliantly. (I'm also a bit jealous of your 1010!)
   
   
  Just an update on my receiver and the volume issue. Had a good play with it last night and I think it maybe just be me, and the fact that I'm used to less powerful amps. I remember the Schitt Magni being too loud for me as well.... I also had to turn my computer way down with that. However, most hp amps must have a low power output in comparison to vintage gear. 
  I tried adding a pre amp in between my dac and the receiver and this worked, but at the expense of a little clarity. I don't like adding components unless absolutely necessary. Anyways I can live with losing a little digital data having the volume turned down on my media player because to be honest, theres really no difference. At least to my ears anyway. 
   
  I'm still really impressed by the sound of this thing. It reminds me of my old OTL amp (it was similar to a crack) big and warm, natural smooth treble. I'd describe the sound as being like 'vinyl' compared the 'digital' sound that I've become accustomed to. Also I've had no need to add or take away anything with the tone controls. Which is nice


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, this is awkward. Speaking of old Pioneers, I had my SX-1980 at about half volume last week and it was kicking. It literally raised the roof. Then dropped about a 4' by 6' section of the ceiling. Haha.
  About an hour later, I got a puff of smoke out of it. So it's in the shop. I think I torched an output transistor, but I'll keep you all updated.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Well, this is awkward. Speaking of old Pioneers, I had my SX-1980 at about half volume last week and it was kicking. It literally raised the roof. Then dropped about a 4' by 6' section of the ceiling. Haha.
> About an hour later, I got a puff of smoke out of it. So it's in the shop. I think I torched an output transistor, but I'll keep you all updated.


 





 These things are dangerous I tell ya!


----------



## Skylab

Wow, PhoenixG, that is a bummer. Lets hope it wasn't an output transistor, as the 1980's output devices are not made anymore and there are no direct replacements. 

However, I bet that wasn't it. Unless you have previously had your 1980's power supply board rebuilt, I bet that's where the issue lies. The 1980's ALL need a complete rebuilt of the power supply board by someone who knows what they are doing and can actually UPGRADE certain components.


----------



## xzobinx

Can someone give me some opinion about this sansui au-d9  I'm interested in trying out some vintage for a change but have no clue where to start 
  it will pair with th900 and 650 
  thanks
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/classifieds/item/776-sansui-au-d9/


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





xzobinx said:


> Can someone give me some opinion about this sansui au-d9  I'm interested in trying out some vintage for a change but have no clue where to start
> it will pair with th900 and 650
> thanks
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/classifieds/item/776-sansui-au-d9/


 
   
  I think that's a good amp but the price seems very high to me. I'd wait and see what else comes down the pike.


----------



## WNBC

I've tried TH600 with the vintage Pioneer SX-1010.  With its 25 ohm impedance there is bit too much hiss for my liking when paired with the SX-1010.  Doesn't sound bad but the hiss is a tad annoying.  
   
   
  Quote: 





xzobinx said:


> Can someone give me some opinion about this sansui au-d9  I'm interested in trying out some vintage for a change but have no clue where to start
> it will pair with th900 and 650
> thanks
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/classifieds/item/776-sansui-au-d9/


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





xzobinx said:


> Can someone give me some opinion about this sansui au-d9  I'm interested in trying out some vintage for a change but have no clue where to start
> it will pair with th900 and 650
> thanks
> http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/classifieds/item/776-sansui-au-d9/


 

 I have an AU-D907 which is the Japanese AU-919. The AU-D9 has the same dna, but it's impossible to say how much of the design has carried through to this model. I had a look on AK and there wasn't much there. It seems rare, but rare can be a pain in the arse if it needs servicing.
   
  The sound of the 907 is very neutral. A Sansui advert of the time used the phrase 'wire with gain'. It's also very quiet. I am able to use a Senn ie8 without much noise.
   
  Now before you run off and buy the D9, stop and think. my 907 was my third purchase, already owning a Marantz 2385 and a SX1980. If the price is 480 aus dollars that's still over $470 US/ £309. Then again if it is in Aus, you will save hundreds of dollars in shipping buying an equivalent model from the US.


----------



## Silent One

Interesting, WNBC. When I listen to my Denon D7000 paired with the Pioneer SX-D7000, I do not suffer from hiss @ 25 Ohms.


----------



## LugBug1

How much room do you Pioneer SX guys have on the volume pot? I can't imagine using a low impedance phone on my 550. 
   
  I'm wondering if the resistors have been removed on mine..?


----------



## palmfish

Headphone impedance alone cannot predict "how loud" it will be. For example, the HiFiMan HE-6 is rated at only 50 ohms. It's 83 dB sensitivity (efficiency) rating is much more telling...


----------



## Skylab

It's really more the sensitivity of the headphone that is at issue here, not the impedance. If you have a very high sensitivity headphone, and your vintage amp/receiver has a bit of noise, you're likely to hear it. My recapped/restored SX-1980's are dead quiet, so I can run pretty much any headphone, but I had a Sansui G-8000 that simply had too much noise/hiss from headphones, so it got sold.

With the medium sensitivity LCD-3 or low sensitivity HE-6, this isn't really ever an issue unless the amp/receiver is so noisy it's about to go...

EDIT: yup, Palmfish has it right and beat me to it


----------



## WNBC

All of you are right.  I must have been listening to a track with a higher than normal background noise.  Silent One mentioned the D7000 example and it is more efficient than the TH600 so I had to give this another shot.  I plugged in the TH600 into my SX-1010 and while there is more hiss with than my Amphora it isn't that bad.  With that said, I can't get above 10 o'clock before it gets too loud.  Too bad I don't have the 737 around anymore.  The 737 was pretty good with the HE-500 and less power than the 1010.  Possibly better with non-orthos as well.  
   
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Interesting, WNBC. When I listen to my Denon D7000 paired with the Pioneer SX-D7000, I do not suffer from hiss @ 25 Ohms.


 
   
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> How much room do you Pioneer SX guys have on the volume pot? I can't imagine using a low impedance phone on my 550.
> 
> I'm wondering if the resistors have been removed on mine..?


 
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Headphone impedance alone cannot predict "how loud" it will be. For example, the HiFiMan HE-6 is rated at only 50 ohms. It's 83 dB sensitivity (efficiency) rating is much more telling...


----------



## moodyrn

As a previous owner of the sx1010, I will say it has one of the most powerful headphone outs of any vintage amp/receiver I've owned. And all of them with the exception of the sansui au-517, were totl monsters.  It' not only could easily power my he-6 out of the headphone out, but it could even do it with the -20db button engaged. It hissed with my d7000 even with the -20db button engaged. 
   
  A lot also have the do with the quality of the preamp. I have a flagship ht receiver and I've tried almost all of my vintage gear in amp only mode using the receiver as a preamp as a point of reference as to how good the preamp on them were. With the sx1010 and a few others, there were never any hiss bypassing the preamp and using the ht receiver as a preamp. And at the same time, the headphone out of them were just as powerful.
   
  The couple of exceptions were the 2330B and ka-907. The preamp in the ka-907 was just as quiet and the 2330B was nearly as quiet, but quiet enough that I could run my jh13 with barely hearing any hiss at all. Everything else, including my highly sensitive 40ohm w3000 were completely silent. The marantz 2325 also have a very good preamp, but not quiet as good as the 2330B. 
   
  I had the same experience with a sansui au-11000 as Skylab did with his g8000, and eventually sold it as well. The strange thing about that was, the -20db button had no effect on background noise. It only lower the volume, which is total different from the -20db on both the au-517 and 9090db. Both of those would significantly lower the background noise with the -20db button engaged.


----------



## johnman1116

Found a Sansui 2000 for sale. Cosmetically flawed but phono, aux and tuner (may need recalibration) work and is priced at $55...
   
  To be honest, I have no idea what im doing but i want to get a vintage receiver. 
 I find it pretty hard to find information, subjective reviews, on vintage gear so i feel like pretty much you just ask on a forum and see what they say.
  That does lead to conflict as I read that sansui were top of the line and they were fake top of the line (junk). 
 Also i read that sansui's have a warm sound signature as opposed to Marantz with a more bright and detailed sound. Is this generally correct?
   
  also have a sansui 771 priced at $160. "good" condition. 
   
  Thanks


----------



## Rawrbington

theres a SX1280 for sale on my local CL for 450$
  i don't need (or even want really) another vintage receiver, but man, im fighting the urge here


----------



## Silent One

Can I get a cinnamon synonym for the word "Denial?"


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Can I get a cinnamon synonym for the word "Denial?"


----------



## Skylab

If the 1280 is in good working condition and has nice cosmetics, $450 is a steal.


----------



## Silent One

Indeed. ClassicAudio is trying to sell one in very good condition for $1,500. Serviced a bit but, this lets you know (reminder) to pick the one on CL up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


on your way home.


----------



## 5aces

+ 3 
C.A.M. member up here has a one owner SX 1280 listed for $1,200.
Super clean and very nice,


----------



## xzobinx

Thanks for the inputs, after doing some research I do think the price is too much as well. 
  Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's a good amp but the price seems very high to me. I'd wait and see what else comes down the pike.


 
   
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I've tried TH600 with the vintage Pioneer SX-1010.  With its 25 ohm impedance there is bit too much hiss for my liking when paired with the SX-1010.  Doesn't sound bad but the hiss is a tad annoying.


 
   
  Quote: 





mrq said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rawrbington

silent one said:


> Indeed. ClassicAudio is trying to sell one in very good condition for $1,500. Serviced a bit but, this lets you know (reminder) to pick the one on CL up
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's already gone. Thankfully.
The burden has been lifted.
I'm good on amplifiers at the moment. But I have a hard time turning away from stuff like that.
Trying to finance a big crossover build project for my klipsch. Already got the titanium mids and tweeters.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> It's already gone. Thankfully.
> The burden has been lifted.
> I'm good on amplifiers at the moment. But I have a hard time turning away from stuff like that.
> Trying to finance a big crossover build project for my klipsch. Already got the titanium mids and tweeters.


 
   
  Yeah, we 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 know the position quite well. Funds allocated and spoken for and then... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  In my case, Jack and I held talks ALL week long covering details not shown on the website. I wanted my WA5 Blacked out, Spec'd out! And was set to order the following Monday. 
   
  That Friday night heading into the weekend I decided to cruise CL. A post for the rare Sansui G-22000 just went live not 5 minutes prior to me landing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




on the page! NO BRAINER - I spent the Woo money to pick it up that following Monday...


----------



## bikefixe

>>also have a sansui 771 priced at $160. "good" condition. 

i lucked into a sansui 771 at about that price. it had been lightly overhauled (deoxit, outputs adjusted to spec). It has a wonderful warm sound, great with my hd600 headphones. Recently got hold of a pioneer sa-8100 amp, but prefer the sound of the Sansui...


----------



## Trav

Got in tonight to unbox my Sansui 881 and it is NOS condition. Listening...... Lets say I'm very impressed. My Fostex sound superb. Incredible bass extension and impact. Detail and dynamics are fully open. I got everything I was hoping for and more. Photos soon.


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait! Should I stay up or go to bed, any advice?




   
  - Team Sansui


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





trav said:


> Got in tonight to unbox my Sansui 881 and it is NOS condition. Listening...... Lets say I'm very impressed. My Fostex sound superb. Incredible bass extension and impact. Detail and dynamics are fully open. I got everything I was hoping for and more. Photos soon.


 
  Pics please!


----------



## moodyrn

Trav didn't know you had posted here already when we were texting. Like others have said, pics, pics, pics lol.


----------



## Silent One

Sooooo, when will Trav post?


----------



## MattTCG

Trav...I was very impressed with your modded fostex. I thought that they sounded wonderful. Congrats on the Sansui!! Now post those pics.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Sooooo, when will Trav post?


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn you have his number, give him a text and say there's folk here been waiting 16+ hours for pics... must go to bed soon...


----------



## MattTCG

I know where he lives. I could go knock on the door.


----------



## Silent One

Why does this wait have the feel of a Product Launch?


----------



## LugBug1

time... goes by.. so slowly.... I stare into space... waiting.... will they ever come...


----------



## MattTCG

Hilarious!! Almost became incontinent.


----------



## Silent One

Wait... are you all suggesting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 when he gets in, he has to walk/feed the dog first?


----------



## moodyrn

I just saw him a couple hours ago. He just got some hpm100s from me, it may be a while lol. But Trav you better show up soon, it's getting ancy around here. I can't hold them off much longer.


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## LugBug1

*cough* anyways.. while we're waiting. 
   
  I pulled the trigger on a Rotel 712 yesterday... Its to try and fit in (and on to) my bedside set up 
   
  It looks gorgeous, I know its lower end but since getting my Pioneer the 70's sound has bitten me bigstyle! Should come next week sometime.
   
  Anyone know about this model at all.?? I only want to read good things


----------



## DefQon

There was a rare power/integrated amp mentioned in this thread a while ago, big black solid looking Pioneer or Marantz or Sansui monoblock looking amp that the whole chassis is made out of a heatsink shape - quite expensive too, anyone here know what I'm on about ? (Pretty sure Skylab mentioned it a few times).


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats, now we have two people we are waiting to see pics from.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## LugBug1

Right.... It's 2.00 in the morning (uk). I said to my wife 4 hours ago i'll be up soon me darlin. (we are going through a rocky patch at the mo) 'I just need to sort a bit of business out' I said. 
   
  Trav. I don't know you. 
  But man to man, I'm sure you're a great fella. But we're counting on you here bud. We need these pics man. We need em. My marriage is already on the balance.. I missed a days work today (said I got my foreskin caught in the toaster.. I KNOW! but it was the best I could come up with at the time) lack of sleep man. Anyways we're all countin on you bud. 
   
  We're holdin on.


----------



## BmWr75

NAD 3020
   
  [size=13.333333969116211px]I've read a lot about this vintage integrated in recent years. Went to a vintage Hi-Fi yard sale last weekend (lots of local enthusiasts getting together) and found one. Bought it from the original owner. He added some walnut end panels years ago. I stripped off the shiny finish and redid them with Watco's Danish Oil. Also cleaned all the pots, switches, fuse holders and RCA jacks with DeOxit. The only modification done to it is the cheap spring loaded speaker outs have been replaced with a stronger terminal strip. This thing does sound very nice.[/size]


----------



## Trav

Lol ok ok. BUT the BR is being remodeled ok, everything is make shift right now. Pics in 10 min.


----------



## Skylab

That's a very nice NAD there, Scott


----------



## moodyrn

+1, nice indeed.


----------



## Skylab

If someone wanted to go from zero to OMG WOW, you could buy this stack:

http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/san/TU9900CA2KBA2K.html


----------



## Trav




----------



## MattTCG

Bout damn time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Looks pretty nice..


----------



## Skylab

Sure does! Nice, Trav. How do you like the HPM-100's?


----------



## moodyrn

Another vintage convert. Welcome to the  vintage darkside Trav.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Next up is Matt.


----------



## Trav

SL my first impression of the hpm 100 is...PRESENCE. I just ran a nice mix of every genre I have through them and I agree with most others in that one would be very hard pressed to find a more versatile speaker. Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Chile live took my breath away. They present everything with amazing dynamics. The 881 just drives them with unreal efficiency. I've not turned up the vol more than a 1/4 yet. Moody you got me fully immersed in the gear of my childhood...and I'm loving it!


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





trav said:


>


 
   
  A Friday Night 'Trav' Sighting. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This vintage iron was certainly worth waiting for!
   
  Sorry about the Flower bed, Trav. A little late now but, it just occurred to me that maybe the handful of members loitering outside your living room window should have been wearing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


Head-Fi badges. 
   
  The neighbors were getting nervous...


----------



## Trav

Lmao. Sorry about the poor q photos. A digital SLR I do not possess. If only I had known about the quality of vintage gear several years ago I could have saved a lot of money and wasted time. I'm seeing a vintage high power amp and a set of Maggie's in my living room in my distant future I think.


----------



## Silent One

This ensemble is sooooo v-e-r-y sexy! And it doesn't help me that:
   
  1. It sits atop the Klipschorn I so badly want.
  2. This cat has my Binary clock sitting to the left.


----------



## DefQon

Ok it was the Pioneer MP-22/25 power amplifier. If anyone has one willing to ship to me. I'm offering $2k for one in mint cond.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





trav said:


>


 
  Absolute beauty and well played my friend


----------



## Skylab

trav said:


> SL my first impression of the hpm 100 is...PRESENCE. I just ran a nice mix of every genre I have through them and I agree with most others in that one would be very hard pressed to find a more versatile speaker. Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Chile live took my breath away. They present everything with amazing dynamics. The 881 just drives them with unreal efficiency. I've not turned up the vol more than a 1/4 yet. Moody you got me fully immersed in the gear of my childhood...and I'm loving it!




That's awesome Trav! Relative to the HPM-100's, be sure to mess with the treble and midrange level controls. They are really key to getting the best sound for a given room. Use those first, and then if you still want a bit of tweak you can try the tone controls on the receiver as well. I also find the 100's sound best about a foot off the ground. But pay them a little mind in set up and they will deliver shockingly dynamic, full range sound.



defqon said:


> Ok it was the Pioneer MP-22/25 power amplifier. If anyone has one willing to ship to me. I'm offering $2k for one in mint cond.




Those are highly regarded. Ive never actually seen one. Will be awfully expensive to ship one down under though.


----------



## WNBC

There are a few things I wish I had kept and the HPM-100 was one of them.  I had a mint pair.
   
  Sansui TU/AU-717 > HPM-100
   
  Was just too powerful a rig for my neighbors below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
   
   
  Quote: 





trav said:


> SL my first impression of the hpm 100 is...PRESENCE. I just ran a nice mix of every genre I have through them and I agree with most others in that one would be very hard pressed to find a more versatile speaker. Jimi Hendrix Voodoo Chile live took my breath away. They present everything with amazing dynamics. The 881 just drives them with unreal efficiency. I've not turned up the vol more than a 1/4 yet. Moody you got me fully immersed in the gear of my childhood...and I'm loving it!


----------



## Trav

Skylab thx for the pointers. TBH I've yet to have a formal long term session i.e. no kids running around, no proper placement, furniture causing deflections but I'm still impressed. My last home speakers were Dynaco A 25's and ADS L470's which I adored, even though I was driving them with a 3 wpc SET that I had bought for a full range BLH setup. The 100's are huge leap in presentation.


----------



## dgcrane

I thought I would chime in to add my baby. I have had a Marantz 1150 for years and I love it as much today as the day we met  
   
  Squeezebox > Eximus DP1 >  Woo WA2 > Marantz 1150 > B&W 683 and 685's
   

   
  Please don't laugh too hard at my flexy shelf... I am not overly DIYish and honestly I am somewhat proud of how it turned out for me  The "diamond" 1/4" dust protectors were my daughters' idea to add some bling to my stack LOL
   
  Darren


----------



## Silent One

You're doing great 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



north of the border.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





dgcrane said:


> I thought I would chime in to add my baby. I have had a Marantz 1150 for years and I love it as much today as the day we met
> 
> Squeezebox > Eximus DP1 >  Woo WA2 > Marantz 1150 > B&W 683 and 685's
> 
> ...


 
   
  Lovin' this setup, especially the Marantz and the Woo. I'd love to plug some orthos into either of those. Very nice Darren, very nice.


----------



## moodyrn

Sexy looking setup dgcrane.


----------



## dgcrane

Thank you all... it sure is a fun hobby


----------



## LugBug1

Lovin the Marantz! looks in tip-top shape as well.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





dgcrane said:


> I thought I would chime in to add my baby. I have had a Marantz 1150 for years and I love it as much today as the day we met
> 
> Squeezebox > Eximus DP1 >  Woo WA2 > Marantz 1150 > B&W 683 and 685's
> 
> ...


 

 What is that third item from the bottom with what looks like power meters on it?  Small, rectangular item sitting on the Marantz.


----------



## boushh

Logitech Squeezebox Touch


----------



## johnman1116

Wow. Looks amazing.
  Maybe a Sennheiser hh10 or a stand on the side. Im not a fan of hanging headphones on random things but thats just me~
  Love the color of the wood and it matches so nicely with the Grados.
   
  Looks really heavy though... I know the Woos are heavy and the Marantz as well. Poor Monster power conditioner is getting crush~
  Quote: 





dgcrane said:


> I thought I would chime in to add my baby. I have had a Marantz 1150 for years and I love it as much today as the day we met
> 
> Squeezebox > Eximus DP1 >  Woo WA2 > Marantz 1150 > B&W 683 and 685's
> 
> ...


----------



## dgcrane

Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> Wow. Looks amazing.
> Maybe a Sennheiser hh10 or a stand on the side. Im not a fan of hanging headphones on random things but thats just me~
> Love the color of the wood and it matches so nicely with the Grados.
> 
> Looks really heavy though... I know the Woos are heavy and the Marantz as well. Poor Monster power conditioner is getting crush~


 
   
  You will notice on the left hand side the edge of my pipe headphone rack that I use to hold my Grado's and also a pair of 650's. I just put the Grados up like that for the photo op 
   
  Your right, it is heavy for sure... I am happy to say that the stand I have it all on is made of some kickazz solid wood and is up for the task, and I am secretly happy to be torturing the Monster product with the weight LOL


----------



## calipilot227

Just won a Pioneer SA 8500 for $150 on the 'Bay. Will of course post pics when it arrives. Don't really regret selling my SA 6500 II now


----------



## palmfish

Nice amp!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Just won a Pioneer SA 8500 for $150 on the 'Bay. Will of course post pics when it arrives. Don't really regret selling my SA 6500 II now


 
   
  Congrats! but... I thought we were 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


special. Have the seller send pix 



on your behalf!


----------



## calipilot227

Teaser shots:
   
  Pre-power jumpers are included, although they'll be pulled as soon as it arrives, and the pre-out connected to my Hafler 220

   
  Power lamp works (burned out on my 6500)
   

   
  Looks pretty clean without any missing knobs or switches.
   

   
  That's all for now! Didn't really need another integrated (how many times have we heard that story?), but this was too good to pass on. Trouble is, now I'm fantasizing about a wood case for it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It never ends, does it?


----------



## Silent One

You transported me to another era... _beautiful._


----------



## Trav

Great score! It looks to be in concours condition. Today I ran across a Pioneer DG1 for $75 and a matching 5 band eq for $15 at a flea market in case you're game for more..lol


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> That's all for now! Didn't really need another integrated (how many times have we heard that story?), but this was too good to pass on. Trouble is, now I'm fantasizing about a wood case for it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That vintage of Pioneer didnt come with wood cases. Usually just wood side panels. I personally think they look better with side panels anyways.
   
  Here's my 5800 to give you an idea...


----------



## calipilot227

*drool* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any idea on the model number/where to buy?


----------



## LugBug1

Nice Pioneers guys... I likes Pioneers...!


----------



## 99-1

hi everybody
  i added an equalizer(old yamah) and a deck(denon) to my amp...

   

   

   
  i want to buy sansui speaker and have two choices at present :
  1) sansui sp-1000 (not in very good condition)= 220$
  2) sansui sp-7500 = 1200-1300$
  what's your idea?


----------



## PhoenixG

The Sansui SP 5500x is one of my favorite speakers. They compare vary favorably to much more expensive speakers and I think they are (one of) the best speakers sansui made (except for that vinyl veneer. sound quality is great though)
  A pair pops up fairly reliably about once a week on "that" auction site for $100-250 plus shipping. I've had them head to head against JBL L100's and HPM 150's - they stomped the L100's and were about equal to the hpm 150's (except in coolness factor and very high frequency timbre haha)
  Well, I hope my plug didn't sound too gushing, but they really are that underrated and are head and shoulders above most other sansui speakers.


----------



## Trav

I just hooked up the dipole(original) that came with the 881. Are my ears deceiving me? I'm getting some really clean signals that to me sound almost 320 quality. Anyone else notice this on their receivers?


----------



## Skylab

I'm sure your ears are not deceiving you. The tuners in vintage receivers were often very good, as people did a LOT of FM listening in that era. And some radio stations really do put out decent sounding signals even today.


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





dgcrane said:


> Please don't laugh too hard at my flexy shelf...


 
  No bs, that's one the best looking simple diy audio racks I've seen, especially that wood grain texture which suits your Grados. Maybe if you figured out a way to cover the leg bolts to look more professional would look better.
   
   
  Btw does anyone know a good spray or sort of wax protector to add the shine and restores the dulled looking plastic on vintage amp's? I was looking at Cranky's amp restoration spray and would love to use something to spray onto the plastic fascia of my Marantz PM-32 to cover up the dull looking black bits.


----------



## LugBug1

Me Rotel RA-712 came today 
   

   

   
  After a few teething probs.. Or more like bringing this old man back to life haha, it seems to be working ok. The right channel kept going, had a look inside and everything looks pretty good and clean for its age. Caps still look new, no bulging or leaks. There is also a big crackle on the bass tone, but its hard to get to it (removed both top and bottom of the casing). Anyway's can't see me needing the bass tone. The main thing is I seem to have sorted the channel problem with a little bit of white spirit in the hp out (simple as!).  First impressions, it doesn't have the finesse of my Pioneer. But it does have a nice warm and natural tone.


----------



## MattTCG

You'll love the Rotel!! Looks fantastic. Now sell me the Pioneer.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> You'll love the Rotel!! Looks fantastic. Now sell me the Pioneer.


 
  Haha, nooooo I love me pioneer! 
   
  The Rotel is opening up now and sounding pretty good. Really not that far behind the pioneer. Theres a bit of backround hiss so I've dropped the treble down a notch on the amp and compensated with a notch up on last 3 bars of foobar equalizer. This has helped and is now about as quiet as the pioneer. 
   
  Again I'm really impressed with how these old 70's boxes are driving my HD800's! Big deep bass and huge soundstage. Real analogue sound. 
   
  Who needs headphone amps


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





trav said:


> I just hooked up the dipole(original) that came with the 881. Are my ears deceiving me? I'm getting some really clean signals that to me sound almost 320 quality. Anyone else notice this on their receivers?


 
   

   
  I apologize for the crumby picture.  Just trying to show my vintage Kenwood KT-7550.  IMHO it exceeds 320 quality, although I use a rooftop antenna and the Kenwood has many modifications.  Best source material in my system comes from the Kenwood.  Top to bottom: Jeff Rowland Model 1 amplifier (square push button w/ light), Kenwood KT-7550, NAD M15, NAD M55.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Haha, nooooo I love me pioneer!
> 
> The Rotel is opening up now and sounding pretty good. Really not that far behind the pioneer. Theres a bit of backround hiss so I've dropped the treble down a notch on the amp and compensated with a notch up on last 3 bars of foobar equalizer. This has helped and is now about as quite as the pioneer.
> 
> ...


 
  This.  I am going to sell the one last piece I have left, a Magni, since I got into these vintage brick headphone amps.  Amazing, huh?  It's like we have a secret that no one knows about.............probably should keep it that way lest we have Head Fiers not to mention the eBay crowd searching for vintage silver gems.


----------



## ardgedee

Too late for that, I'm afraid.


----------



## LugBug1

Ha, maybe too late.. But seriously I think its still a specialised market for head-fiers. Not many want a beast of a receiver taking over their computer table. And not all headphones respond well to the massive impedance hp out's. Just hope it doesn't turn into a trend where peeps just want one to show off. These are the kind of peeps with fat wallets that beat you at the end bid


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> That vintage of Pioneer didnt come with wood cases. Usually just wood side panels. I personally think they look better with side panels anyways.


 
  My 1974 SA-7100 as lots of wood, but it's not an optional separate wood 'case' like early Marantz or Sherwoods
   

   
  Pioneers cases don't have a bottom so the component sits on it's actual chassis:


----------



## Trav

lugbug1 said:


> Me Rotel RA-712 came today
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I like it...a lot!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Me Rotel RA-712 came today


 
  POWER METERS!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





trav said:


> I like it...a lot!


 
  Cheers Trav!
  Quote: 





parbaked said:


> POWER METERS!


 
  Haha


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, gotta love those power meters. When I went to pick up my ka-907, the seller also had a 9100 he was willing to sell. I for a split second thought about it, since it's still an excellent sounding amp. But I came to my senses and said no way am I leaving here without that 907!! But those power meters did make me take pause though.


----------



## LugBug1

Just checked pics of a Kenwood 9100, good lookin amp!


----------



## Silent One

_After the power is cut!_
   
  When great or really really good sounding gear is also aesthetically pleasing, it pays dividends long after the power is cut. "My room" triples as my Listening room, Reading room and Tea room. And early on easily became my home's favorite spot!
   
  Whenever I pass by the room as I walk around the home, I always catch a glance of my audio rack and peripheral gears. It's a very pleasing moment even if my mind is on something else. Its sight also gets me thinking about the next scheduled listening session...


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





silent one said:


> _After the power is cut!_
> 
> When great or really really good sounding gear is also aesthetically pleasing, it pays dividends long after the power is cut. "My room" triples as my Listening room, Reading room and Tea room. And early on easily became my home's favorite spot!
> 
> Whenever I pass by the room as I walk around the home, I always catch a glance of my audio rack and peripheral gears. It's a very pleasing moment even if my mind is on something else. Its sight also gets me thinking about the next scheduled listening session...


 

 Wow.  I totally get this.


----------



## mhamel

Way too late for this, unfortunately... prices have gotten insane in the past few years and haven't seemed to stop going up on some gear.
   
  That said, the Pioneer SA-9100 I've got (completely restored, with the matching TX-9100 tuner) is one of the best sounding integrated amps I have ever heard - through speakers or headphones.  Detailed, warm, natural, just an absolute pleasure to listen to, it's even got an outstanding phono section, though I'm not that into vinyl.   I've actually got two of them now, the fully-restored pair that I don't know if I'd ever sell, and a 90% restored SA-9100 that I am selling that needs someone to finish the last 10% or so.
   
        -Mike
   
   
  Quote: 





oregonian said:


> This.  I am going to sell the one last piece I have left, a Magni, since I got into these vintage brick headphone amps.  Amazing, huh?  It's like we have a secret that no one knows about.............probably should keep it that way lest we have Head Fiers not to mention the eBay crowd searching for vintage silver gems.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yup - love gazing at my rig.  Always a pleasure.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Way too late for this, unfortunately... prices have gotten insane in the past few years and haven't seemed to stop going up on some gear.
> 
> That said, the Pioneer SA-9100 I've got (completely restored, with the matching TX-9100 tuner) is one of the best sounding integrated amps I have ever heard - through speakers or headphones.  Detailed, warm, natural, just an absolute pleasure to listen to, it's even got an outstanding phono section, though I'm not that into vinyl.   I've actually got two of them now, the fully-restored pair that I don't know if I'd ever sell, and a 90% restored SA-9100 that I am selling that needs someone to finish the last 10% or so.
> 
> -Mike


 

 There is much truth to what you say but fortunately there's a pocket or two of ignorant owners still thankfully.  I paid $80 and $100 for my two Kenwoods and though that's not like a $20 Goodwill find for what I got it's a steal TO ME.  I have an email out to someone for a Kenwood tuner that's $60 right now and will buy it for my work office setup if I can.  All of them are cheaper than buying a Schiit Magni - which I also own.  Not that the Magni is not a good little amp, but really?  Side by side (which I did the day I brought my adopted KA-5700 home) it was a mismatch of epic proportions. 
   
  I'm loving the whole vintage thing.  Just picked up a Kenwood equalizer last night for $20 from 1981.


----------



## Trav

Pssst.. I just found a set of superb condition KLH Model 6 for.....$75.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

Someone set my ass straight.
   
  I need to replace a receiver I let go and I can't justify a vintage one because it'll be borked and need work'd; I also have come to hate the scumbags on CL and hunting is quickly becoming a chore.  I can't justify the hk 3490 because they seem to have high failure rates.  I can't justify the Onkyo A-9555 because it's a hybrid class D and seems to be picky with speakers.  I can't justify an Onkyo TX-8050 because it's too light and plasticky.  I can't justify a Marantz PM6004 because it probably doesn't sound as good as the receivers/integrateds previously listed and offers less power.  What the hell is wrong with me!!


----------



## claybum

Here'a a pic of a very mint, fully recapped KA 8100 I picked up a couple weeks ago. Very clean neutral sound. I love my pioneers and my KA 907, but this beauty has kept my attention since I brought it home.


----------



## Trav

mr.sneis said:


> Someone set my ass straight.
> 
> I need to replace a receiver I let go and I can't justify a vintage one because it'll be borked and need work'd; I also have come to hate the scumbags on CL and hunting is quickly becoming a chore.  I can't justify the hk 3490 because they seem to have high failure rates.  I can't justify the Onkyo A-9555 because it's a hybrid class D and seems to be picky with speakers.  I can't justify an Onkyo TX-8050 because it's too light and plasticky.  I can't justify a Marantz PM6004 because it probably doesn't sound as good as the receivers/integrateds previously listed and offers less power.  What the hell is wrong with me!!


I think there are many here who can testify that if you get a vintage receiver it won't be "borked". EB is always a venue... worked for me anyway.


----------



## pp312

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> I can't justify a Marantz PM6004 because it probably doesn't sound as good as the receivers/integrateds previously listed and offers less power.


 
   
  What is your reason for this conclusion? Marantz makes excellent receivers with great headphone outs. I can't see power being a problem either unless you had woefully inefficient speakers or were playing at criminally high levels.
   
  What is wrong with you? you ask. Other than the fact that you're hesitating about buying the PM6004, nothing.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Someone set my ass straight.
> 
> I need to replace a receiver I let go and I can't justify a vintage one because it'll be borked and need work'd; I also have come to hate the scumbags on CL and hunting is quickly becoming a chore.  I can't justify the hk 3490 because they seem to have high failure rates.  I can't justify the Onkyo A-9555 because it's a hybrid class D and seems to be picky with speakers.  I can't justify an Onkyo TX-8050 because it's too light and plasticky.  I can't justify a Marantz PM6004 because it probably doesn't sound as good as the receivers/integrateds previously listed and offers less power.  What the hell is wrong with me!!


 
  I've met some great audiophiles on CL. Super folks who will go the extra mile for ya when you purchase from them. Good luck


----------



## Oregonian

claybum said:


> Here'a a pic of a very mint, fully recapped KA 8100 I picked up a couple weeks ago. Very clean neutral sound. I love my pioneers and my KA 907, but this beauty has kept my attention since I brought it home.




I have your amps TWO little twin brothers, the KA-5700's. 

Where in Oregon did you find this? Or was it an eBay shipped unit?


----------



## claybum

The KA 8100 was an ebay listing but the seller was local here in Eugene. I was looking for a Kenwood model 500 or 600 when I found this unit. The seller loves to restore vintage amps and sells them for a pretty good price. So I was looking at purchasing a potentially sketchy model 500 from someone who bought it at an estate sale or getting this KA 8100 fully worked on by a local audio enthusiast for $350. I went for local. When I picked it up, I got to make a new friend. We listened to some headphones, he gave me a bunch of vinyl he no longer wanted and he offered to recap (do the crossovers) my HPM 1500 speakers for free. Not bad
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Orgonian...glad you found your own slice of vintage bliss. I bet those Ka 5700 sound great!!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





pp312 said:


>


----------



## shipsupt

You can buy one that's already been restored.  There are some good reputable guys doing this with stuff available on FleaBay and others... I got my SX-950 like that and it was priced quite reasonably.
   
   
  Quote: 





mr.sneis said:


> Someone set my ass straight.
> 
> I need to replace a receiver I let go and I can't justify a vintage one because it'll be borked and need work'd; I also have come to hate the scumbags on CL and hunting is quickly becoming a chore.  I can't justify the hk 3490 because they seem to have high failure rates.  I can't justify the Onkyo A-9555 because it's a hybrid class D and seems to be picky with speakers.  I can't justify an Onkyo TX-8050 because it's too light and plasticky.  I can't justify a Marantz PM6004 because it probably doesn't sound as good as the receivers/integrateds previously listed and offers less power.  What the hell is wrong with me!!


----------



## Skylab

Any of you who might want to really buy more than just one vintage piece really should subscribe to AudioKarma and shop in BarterTown. LOTS of great deals on stuff there and that stuff will work!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Any of you who might want to really buy more than just one vintage piece really should subscribe to AudioKarma and shop in BarterTown. LOTS of great deals on stuff there and that stuff will work!


 
  ^ Excellent suggestion!!


----------



## Oregonian

claybum said:


> The KA 8100 was an ebay listing but the seller was local here in Eugene. I was looking for a Kenwood model 500 or 600 when I found this unit. The seller loves to restore vintage amps and sells them for a pretty good price. So I was looking at purchasing a potentially sketchy model 500 from someone who bought it at an estate sale or getting this KA 8100 fully worked on by a local audio enthusiast for $350. I went for local. When I picked it up, I got to make a new friend. We listened to some headphones, he gave me a bunch of vinyl he no longer wanted and he offered to recap (do the crossovers) my HPM 1500 speakers for free. Not bad
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Awesome stuff. Does this guy in Eugene have a store or website? I'm going down there next week to bring my daughter home from school and would like to see what else he has. You can PM me if you have his contact info. Thanks.

These Kenwoods are beautiful and the headphone outs are great sounding. Your unit is gorgeous.


----------



## Steve Eddy

So yesterday I walk into my local FedEx Office to get some supplies. Sitting on the counter I was surprised to find a Pioneer SX-1250. And on the floor behind the counter, a pair of HPM-100's. I'd never seen a 1250 in the flesh and it was indeed a beauty to behold. The person shipping them had already left and was leaving them for the FedEx folks to package up. But a quick search on eBay found the original listing:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-1250-Stereophonic-AM-FM-Receiver-Vintage-w-FREE-2x-HPM-100-Speakers-/290921616989?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bc47965d&nma=true&si=rquAKb1tXYYZqIO9wS%252BSui%252BzO4U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
   
  Curious if anyone here is the lucky owner.
   
  se


----------



## Mr.Sneis

$1425 shipped.
   
  This game we play...


----------



## Steve Eddy

This game we play is a crazy little thing called love.
   

   
  se


----------



## claybum

Orgonian......I'll send you a pm this evening.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Orgonian......I'll send you a pm this evening.


 

 K, thanks bud!  No hurry.


----------



## mhamel

Wow... memories.    The Game was the first "grown up" album I bought for myself, some time around 1982.. I was 11 and already developing my ongoing music/audio gear habit.    Good times!
   
      -Mike
   
   
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> This game we play is a crazy little thing called love.
> 
> 
> 
> se


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Any of you who might want to really buy more than just one vintage piece really should subscribe to AudioKarma and shop in BarterTown. LOTS of great deals on stuff there and that stuff will work!


 
   
  +1
   
  The $25 price of entry to becoming an AK subscriber is well worth it for just the deals in AK BarterTown.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Here'a a pic of a very mint, fully recapped KA 8100 I picked up a couple weeks ago. Very clean neutral sound. I love my pioneers and my KA 907, but this beauty has kept my attention since I brought it home.


 
  That's exactly why I'm on a waiting list to have my ka-907 restored. My latest purchase of a restored 9090DB has taught me that there really is something to this recapping thing. I can't wait to get it out and back again. But in the mean time, it's still the second best(by a mile) vintage amp my ears have listened to. But congrats on you latest find, it's certainly beautiful.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Wow... memories.    The Game was the first "grown up" album I bought for myself, some time around 1982.. I was 11 and already developing my ongoing music/audio gear habit.    Good times!


 
   
  Good times indeed! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> So yesterday I walk into my local FedEx Office to get some supplies. Sitting on the counter I was surprised to find a Pioneer SX-1250. And on the floor behind the counter, a pair of HPM-100's. I'd never seen a 1250 in the flesh and it was indeed a beauty to behold. The person shipping them had already left and was leaving them for the FedEx folks to package up. But a quick search on eBay found the original listing:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-1250-Stereophonic-AM-FM-Receiver-Vintage-w-FREE-2x-HPM-100-Speakers-/290921616989?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43bc47965d&nma=true&si=rquAKb1tXYYZqIO9wS%252BSui%252BzO4U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> ...


 
  Just took my HPM-150's to the UPS store today. They're well packed and off to a new home in Saudi Arabia. I downgraded to a set of HPM-100's since I'll be moving a few times for work (USN) over the next few years and I don't want to see the HPM 150's damaged in any of the moves. I wish I'd taken a picture, my living room looked like an old pioneer ad for a few days there.
  Once I get the SX-1980 back from the shop, I'll put these 100's through their paces and hopefully they sound just as good.
   
  P.S. Many congrats on the baby!


----------



## Trav

Ver





phoenixg said:


> Just took my HPM-150's to the UPS store today. They're well packed and off to a new home in Saudi Arabia. I downgraded to a set of HPM-100's since I'll be moving a few times for work (USN) over the next few years and I don't want to see the HPM 150's damaged in any of the moves. I wish I'd taken a picture, my living room looked like an old pioneer ad for a few days there.
> Once I get the SX-1980 back from the shop, I'll put these 100's through their paces and hopefully they sound just as good.
> 
> P.S. Many congrats on the baby!


Very interested to hear how the 100's sound with the 1980.


----------



## PhoenixG

Just brought this guy home to tide me over until my other receiver is back from the shop (the prognosis is good, just a few blown transistors and caps, nothing unobtanium). The model number is KR-790, Kenwood. Good sound. I like the mahogany/black finish. The power meters' look like frikkin' Night Rider. Built 1981, 130 Wpc. The pots aren't as sturdy as I'm used to, further evidence of the 80's build. I am having real trouble finding anything about it. I picked it up since I'm a sucker for vintage monster receivers, especially black wood ones.
  If you have info on it, I'm all ears.
   
  I'm using it to test out a set of XR-14's, XR-7's, and HPM 100's. So far, the XR-14's seem to have a different SPL between midranges. I'm going to pull the midrange and take a look. I'm betting something is stuck behind it, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Here's your receiver pr0n.


----------



## moodyrn

Hopefully it isn't plagued by the same problems that plagued most of the 036-035 dome mids. The common problem was a very high failure rate. Most of the xr speakers at one point at time had the those mids replaced once mcintosh got the manufacturing deficiencies worked out.


----------



## PhoenixG

I pulled the midrange to test it - 8 ohms - perfect. I have to say that I've never seen more care put into isolating a speaker. There was it's own box with insulation, with it's own hemispherical insert around the driver with more insulation, and acoustic putty sealing all holes. Astounding. 
  Since the speaker tested good, I checked the high freq fuse and sure enough it was blown. Replaced it and now have a great sounding pair of speakers. I LOVE when it just works out like that.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Just took my HPM-150's to the UPS store today. They're well packed and off to a new home in Saudi Arabia. I downgraded to a set of HPM-100's since I'll be moving a few times for work (USN) over the next few years and I don't want to see the HPM 150's damaged in any of the moves. I wish I'd taken a picture, my living room looked like an old pioneer ad for a few days there.
> Once I get the SX-1980 back from the shop, I'll put these 100's through their paces and hopefully they sound just as good.
> 
> P.S. Many congrats on the baby!


 
   
  Sweet!
   
  As for the baby, I think you misunderstand. I wasn't the recipient of the SX-1250 and HPM-100's. I was just fortunate to pop into FedEx after someone else dropped them off to ship. The only thing Pioneer I have at the moment are a pair of CS-99a's that I bought about five years ago.
   
  se


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


>


 
  Its a beauty. I like the looks of some of the early eighties models. It's like everything went square overnight, from the round controls of the 70's to sharp edges of the 80's. I've just got a bargain on an early eighties Technics and it has a similar aesthetic. (I really need to stop buying amps..ha)


----------



## frank2908

I've sent my baby Sansui AU 20000 for repairing the phono section and the protection circuit. Now listening to the Fatman valve amp ( Dared MP5 OEM), I realised how much I was missing. With the Sansui, the sound is so smooth, there are so much more detail everywhere. THe soundstage is very large. My system is Rega P3/24 or Dacport->Sansui AU 20000-> Kef lS50 or my own T50rp mod. When I compared the 2 following setups: Dacport->AU 20000-> headphones and Dacport-> headphones, my first impression was that the 2 setups has the same sound signature: lean bass, detailed mid and high. What the Sansui adds is sweet midrange, better extension at both ends and that effortless detail. With other receiver I have owned, tried : Hitachi Sr 804 and Marantz 2226B,that effortless prevents the Sansui from being boring and just bring whatever your source and speaker have on the table.
   

  P/s: I know, speaker on the floor, WTH right?? I'm waiting for my wall mount shelf to arrive.
  When I have my mount and Sansui back, it will be sweeeet


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Sweet!
> 
> As for the baby, I think you misunderstand.


 
  Sorry, the baby thing is leaking from the speaker forum. Moodyrn just had an actual child, not an electronic one haha.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Sorry, the baby thing is leaking from the speaker forum. Moodyrn just had an actual child, not an electronic one haha.


 
   
  Ah, gotcha! Your post just quoted me so I thought there was some confusion there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  se


----------



## Silent One

An audiophile baby, no 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 less. Speaking of babies, I can't wait to free my Sansui G-22000 from the repair shop! But... money ran short, so maybe July.


----------



## joehalo

Just picked up a cheap sx-650 but the problem is the right channel is very very quiet. I can just barley hear it playing. Through the headphone out i get great sound in both channels. Another thing, when I flip the mode switch to mono I get normal sound levels from both speaker channels. Any ideas what the problem could be. I haven't opened it up and cleaned yet.


----------



## LugBug1

Me too  
   
  My new Rotel is keep failing on me.... Either channel keeps going every now and again. Shame it sounds fab when both are working. 
   
  Oh well, it'll just have to be an ornamental component with the coolashaker power meters!


----------



## Skylab

That kinds of intermittent performance is almost guaranteed to just be switches or pots that need cleaning.


----------



## ardgedee

*The first law of vintage audio equipment tech support:*
   
  If you ever have a question about one channel or another going out, or one particular input not working properly, or pots being noisy... you will always be asked whether you've cleaned the pots, switches and connectors.
   
  If your answer is "no", you will always be told that you should clean them, to rule out the possibility that it's just dirt or corrosion, since that's what usually causes these problems, and cleaning is the cheapest possible fix anybody can do.
   
  So now you know what to do before you ask about one channel or another going out, or one particular input not working properly, or pots being noisy.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Sorry, the baby thing is leaking from the speaker forum. Moodyrn just had an actual child, not an electronic one haha.


 
  Lol, wasn't sure if you were referring to me or not so I didn't comment. And that could have been the fact I've been sleep deprived the past few days too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But thanks. Hopefully someone to carry on the vintage love affair I have. My three year old and I have to listen to my fisher every night before bed.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Just picked up a cheap sx-650 but the problem is the right channel is very very quiet. I can just barley hear it playing. Through the headphone out i get great sound in both channels. Another thing, when I flip the mode switch to mono I get normal sound levels from both speaker channels. Any ideas what the problem could be. I haven't opened it up and cleaned yet.


 
   
  One possibility would be a cold solder joint at the speaker terminals.


----------



## moodyrn

phoenixg said:


> I pulled the midrange to test it - 8 ohms - perfect. I have to say that I've never seen more care put into isolating a speaker. There was it's own box with insulation, with it's own hemispherical insert around the driver with more insulation, and acoustic putty sealing all holes. Astounding.
> Since the speaker tested good, I checked the high freq fuse and sure enough it was blown. Replaced it and now have a great sounding pair of speakers. I LOVE when it just works out like that.




I'm really glad it turned out to be something as simple as the fuse. Unfortunately for me, both the fuse and one of my dome mids were blown.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That kinds of intermittent performance is almost guaranteed to just be switches or pots that need cleaning.


 
   
  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> *The first law of vintage audio equipment tech support:*
> 
> If you ever have a question about one channel or another going out, or one particular input not working properly, or pots being noisy... you will always be asked whether you've cleaned the pots, switches and connectors.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks guys., Us vintage noobs.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm gonna do me some cleaning!


----------



## joehalo

LOL well... I cleaned all the pots and switches and.... Sound in both channels! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't know why but I figured something must be more wrong with it than just needing cleaned. They guy instantly accepted my $20 offer which worried me I guess. No more asking for help until I've done a good cleaning lol.


----------



## Trav

My journey continues...just picked up a pristine set of Dynaco A25's. Gonna see how they sound in a stack with the 100's. I now have my 2 favorite speakers...life is good.


----------



## LugBug1

Gave my Rotel a good clean and gave the volume/balance pots a good work-out turning them. Seems to have done the trick. Two channels here as well. Happy days  
   
  I only paid £50 for this one but I'm pleased that i've got it working again... Can't blame the seller because I'm sure it was working when he tested it. Thats part of the deal with these oldies; There is a risk involved and I certainly wouldn't expect my Audio gd for example to be working perfect in 30+ years time.


----------



## GoldfishX

Any thoughts on McIntosh preamps? The C28 and C32 are both tempting because I can use both the preamp section for my current receiver and because they have a built-in headphone amplifier, plus there is something badass I like about McIntosh. Since most of the $1000-level "regular" headphone amps I've tried out are average at best, thinking of killing two birds with one stone there.
   
  I also hear a lot of early Marantz receivers (22xx) and the Sansui 9090db are good for the same purpose.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Any thoughts on McIntosh preamps? The C28 and C32 are both tempting because I can use both the preamp section for my current receiver and because they have a built-in headphone amplifier, plus there is something badass I like about McIntosh. Since most of the $1000-level "regular" headphone amps I've tried out are average at best, thinking of killing two birds with one stone there.
> 
> I also hear a lot of early Marantz receivers (22xx) and the Sansui 9090db are good for the same purpose.


 
   
  Don't overlook the McIntosh receivers. Most of the 1970s-80s vintage ones are still available in the sub-$1k price range. The MAC 4100 has been my workhorse since the day I bought it in January.


----------



## Oregonian

goldfishx said:


> Any thoughts on McIntosh preamps? The C28 and C32 are both tempting because I can use both the preamp section for my current receiver and because they have a built-in headphone amplifier, plus there is something badass I like about McIntosh. Since most of the $1000-level "regular" headphone amps I've tried out are average at best, thinking of killing two birds with one stone there.
> 
> I also hear a lot of early Marantz receivers (22xx) and the Sansui 9090db are good for the same purpose.




Honestly, I think all the vintage receivers and integrated amps make amazing headphone amps. My Kenwoods put the Magni to shame and I have a Pioneer arriving this week that I expect to be as good. 

All the names are good (Marantz, Yamaha, JVC, Sansui, Sherwood, Kenwood, heck, I hear even early Realistics are good for headphone duty). They use the main amps for feeding the headphone jack. 

Keep it quiet........before you know it everyone will want a vintage.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Honestly, I think all the vintage receivers and integrated amps make amazing headphone amps. My Kenwoods put the Magni to shame and I have a Pioneer arriving this week that I expect to be as good.
> 
> All the names are good (Marantz, Yamaha, JVC, Sansui, Sherwood, Kenwood, heck, I hear even early Realistics are good for headphone duty). They use the main amps for feeding the headphone jack.
> 
> *Keep it quiet........before you know it everyone will want a vintage. *


 
   
  moodyrn? A great
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 cat... life partner and dad no less! BUT, this thread he created is of absolutely no use
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to me. I'm still longing and lusting after vintage Nakamichi Dragon gear. When I had the money to get some of that stuff at far more reasonable prices, this thread was not yet created to remind me to go get it! 
   
  He finally got around to creating one of the best threads on HF and suddenly I remember what it is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wanted. Guess I'll collect other pieces for now.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I never knew this thread would take on a life of it's own the way it has. And to think the first post was met with a little criticism
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. After getting my feet wet, I was astonished at how good my vintage tube integrated sounded for relatively little money compared to what a good tube headphone amp would cost. I wanted to just let people who didn't want to invest several thousands of dollars into dedicated headphone rigs know that there were other options. Very cool looking options at that.
   
  But I can't take the credit for getting people interested in vintage gear though. I know many already here have owned vintage gear before I even thought about owning vintage gear. I just wanted to bring more attention to it. But a big thanks to Skylab. He's the one responsible for getting me started in the first place. I saw a thread he started showcasing a fisher kx100 he bought, and I thought....wow that looks really cool.
   
  But what really caught my attention is what he said when someone asked how it compared to his leben. I thought he would say something along the lines of....don't be silly, this 50 year amp can't hold a candle to the mighty leben. But what he said was, the leben sounded a little better. I was like what? Only a little better? I don't know if he still feels that way since it could have just been new toy syndrome at the time, but I preceded to bombard him with pm's  of his opinion of it.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 A  couple of weeks later, I was the proud owner of a partially restored x100c. Got it for the grand total of 275.00(I think, maybe 250.00). I hate you can't get them anywhere near that price now. And after that, the rest is history. 
   
  The fisher isn't the best vintage amp I have, I've had quiet a few that were much better technically, but years later, it's still sits atop my night stand. I guess it have a bit of sentimental value for me since it's the amp that started it all for me. Well I guess it doesn't hurt that it has a very unique sound signature that I find downright addictive at times either.


----------



## grokit

What do you guys think of this?
   

   
  Asking $300 locally.


----------



## dogwan

This little beasty followed me home today.
   
  Hitachi HA-7700, Mosfet integrated. Dual power supplies, MC and variable loading MM phono stages. Switch for direct or capacitor coupling the pre section to the amp section.
   
  Seller said the pre-amp and headphone sections work, but no sound out of speakers. Not sure what he did wrong 'cause I had no problems.
   
  It's a little dinged up around the edges, missing power button cap, smashed RCA's on back (only the tape section).
   
  Initially hooked up to speakers I was not too impressed with the sound, a little bright and edgy for me. BUT, spent the last 2 hours with headphones and it sounded great. HD600's, K240m, K400, Ortho HP-2's, T50rp's..... it liked everything I threw at it. Super detailed, great soundstage, fast and furious transients.
   
  I think it needs some work like cleaning the insides, setting all the offsets, and new jacks and binding posts. I may even contemplate a re-cap of the signal path.
   
  -Dogwan


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol, I never knew this thread would take on a life of it's own the way it has. And to think the first post was met with a little criticism
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Good stuff


----------



## Trav

Se





dogwan said:


> This little beasty followed me home today.
> 
> Hitachi HA-7700, Mosfet integrated. Dual power supplies, MC and variable loading MM phono stages. Switch for direct or capacitor coupling the pre section to the amp section.
> 
> ...


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Lol, I never knew this thread would take on a life of it's own the way it has. And to think the first post was met with a little criticism
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I applaud you guys who set the path of this trend. Without this thread I don't know if I would have found these amazing old pieces of equipment. So thank you all.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> This little beasty followed me home today.


 
  I like it. Looks quite modern, very sleek.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





grokit said:


> What do you guys think of this?
> 
> 
> 
> Asking $300 locally.


 
  That's a purdy amp & tuner. I know nothing about it except that the blue lights are telling me that you should buy it. My brain says try to negotiate a bit though, but what does he know haha.


----------



## moodyrn

That appears to be a 1060 on the bottom. If so, it's the integrated version of 2230. Those go for 100-150.00 on craiglist. Of course a little more on ebay. The matching tuner isn't necessary unless you desire fm or just gotta have those lights of which I would understand. From what I've read, it's a decent tuner. There's tons on AK about the 1060. It's a nice sounding 30wpc integrated amp that has the warm, musical sound of the typical 22xx series of receivers have. This would be a semi-separate version of the 2230. I would try to talk him down a bit because 300.00 will buy you better sound, but if the condition is pristine, then it might be worth it.


----------



## grokit

Thanks guys, I like the blue lights as well. That shade seems to be a Marantz trademark


----------



## Skylab

That Marantz pair and that Hitachi amp both look nice. The Hitachi amp's power supply looks especially tasty, although the picture sort of makes it look like the power supply caps may be bulging? Hard to tell from the pic, but if that's the case, they would need replacing. 

Moody, great post, my friend. It's my pleasure that I've been able to contribute to this thread. It's definitely one of the most enjoyable on all of head-Fi!!! I do still think the Fisher KX-100 sounds very nearly as good as the Leben, which really is saying something. The Fisher is quite warm and tubey, but oh so very musically enjoyable, and will drive almost any headphone I've thrown at it!


----------



## MattTCG

What do you guys think of this ($125 local)
   
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/ele/3840925932.html
   
  It's the second item down on the list.


----------



## moodyrn

Well you can look at it two ways. That 125.00 will buy you one heck of an amp. The sx650 is one of the most under-rated receivers in vintage audio. Headphone user Frank I went through a slew of 500.00-1000.00 headphone amps before he found one he thought could beat it. But on the other hand, I've seen sx650s as low as 35.00 and you can find them all day for 50-75.00. So I wouldn't pay 125.00 for it. That much could get you a sx750 and sometimes an sx850.00 if you're patient. But in the grand scheme of things, there isn't a dedicated headphone amp in existence that will beat it at 3 to 4(and higher) times that price.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks kindly for the advice. Proceeding with caution with a new price point in mind.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Thanks kindly for the advice. Proceeding with caution with a new price point in mind.




I'd only add that unless you listen to FM (which I haven't in about 5 years) maybe an integrated amp is the way to go. Can find them in great shape for low bucks and they are stunning plus usually a bit smaller in footprint. I've got three of them.


----------



## MattTCG

Could you offer a few examples? Pics are appreciated if you want to share.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Could you offer a few examples? Pics are appreciated if you want to share.


 
  Matt,
   
  Happy to.  Here's two of my three.  The Kenwood has an identical twin - I use one for my computer setup in my home office fed by a HP laptop, one for my main headphone listening station fed by either an iPhone 4 or iPod Touch, and the new to me Pioneer will be a new vintage station that will have a turntable  for my old vinyl as well as digital music through RCA-fed iPod music. 
   
  They sound amazing.  No exaggeration - the first time I hooked up the Kenwood it sounded like what I've been chasing with all my other amps (Indeed G-3, Schiit Magni, multiple portables like E-07, E-11, C421).   The portable are great for that, but for any desktop application, these are my preferred amps.   Paid a total of $210 for all three shown below.


----------



## grokit

Here's another integrated/tuner setup from the same (Craigslist) seller, he wants $400 this time:


----------



## moodyrn

Both are nice setups, but I would pay 400.00 for that before I pay 300.00 for that marantz setup. If you get that, prepare to have your mind blown at what 400.00 would get you.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Here's another integrated/tuner setup from the same (Craigslist) seller, he wants $400 this time:


 
   
  This I like!! Don't see it listed though.


----------



## moodyrn

Wait a minute, this thread has just reached 500 pages. Now that's quiet a milestone!!! Congrats to us.


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats and great thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 Found this on ebay...available for local pickup.
   
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151062097594&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Could you offer a few examples? Pics are appreciated if you want to share.


 
  The Pioneers sound nice but I do like the small footprint of the Marantz 1030/1050/1060.
  This is my Pioneer SA-7100 that I use in my vinyl set up:


----------



## Silent One

To the 500's!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Congrats and great thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You just went from _Zero_ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _to Sixty!_


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, didn't take long for that 850 to show up in that 125 to 150 price range. A great deal if it works. Lucky for you it's local and I would request an audition before I hit the buy it now or best offer button.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Both are nice setups, but I would pay 400.00 for that before I pay 300.00 for that marantz setup. If you get that, prepare to have your mind blown at what 400.00 would get you.


 
   
  Yeah the seller ran a separate ad for this one, and made a point that it all worked which he didn't with the Marantz. It's Craigslist in Anchorage so all for me


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Congrats and great thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Unfortunately it isn't working..............hence the $150 buy it now price.  Maybe still worth it.


----------



## mhamel

My Pioneer SA-9100/TX-9100 combo:
   

   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Could you offer a few examples? Pics are appreciated if you want to share.


----------



## MattTCG

Ohhhhhhhh....I'm a sucka for the blue lights.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That Marantz pair and that Hitachi amp both look nice. The Hitachi amp's power supply looks especially tasty, although the picture sort of makes it look like the power supply caps may be bulging? Hard to tell from the pic, but if that's the case, they would need replacing.


 
   
  Yeah, it's just the picture. I gave them a pretty good visual inspection. No bulging or leaking. Wish I could say the same for myself.


----------



## Skylab

dogwan said:


> Yeah, it's just the picture. I gave them a pretty good visual inspection. No bulging or leaking. Wish I could say the same for myself.




LOLOL!!!!! All good then 




mhamel said:


> My Pioneer SA-9100/TX-9100 combo




Very nice!!!! Those models I've always really liked the look of. I had the SX-1010 receiver from that same lineup and it was excellent sounding.

I have to say there are a LOT of great pieces for sale on the Chicago Craigslist on a pretty regular basis. Here is a Pioneer SA-9500 integrated for $200!!! Yes, a bit of rust...but if it works that is absolutely stealing.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/3862242832.html

I'm tempted to buy it myself...as I am the SX-3900 that's also $200...or the mint HPM-900 speakers for $500/pair...and I only regularly browse the Pioneer stuff, who knows what else is there...


----------



## Trav

Matt a coworker of mine bought a 650 last month off EB and he paid $150 for it. He likes the synergy with his HD 600s. I paid $199 for my Sansui. It seems this age of information we live in creates a market where the "barn finds" seem to diminish. There was a CL post last month in either ATL or BHM where a guy had a Sansui 7070 and speakers for $150.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, that's just crazy. If anybody sees a great deal in the Atlanta area please PM. My QUEST begins.


----------



## Silent One

Shoot! I'm very close to showing my SX-650 the door. Perhaps, $90-$100. Man, MattTCG, if only you lived locally in Cali...


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I'd be all over that.


----------



## Silent One

I think it sounds fine, just downsizing. And the space left is reserved for bigger
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


iron.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I think it sounds fine, just downsizing. And the space left is reserved for bigger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Bigger is ALWAYS better!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Bigger is ALWAYS better!


 
   
  We all know what Dr. Funkenstein said, _"The bigger the headache, the bigger the pill..." _
   
  In addition to picking up vintage Nak gears when possible - one at a time, if necessary - I'd like to get a Sansui G-33000 and Technics SA-1000.
   
  I'd mix in a SX-1980 and other irons as well...


----------



## joehalo

My two new babies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





   
  These are my first vintage Sansui or Pioneer units. I think the sx-650 is my new favorite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and it was by far the cheapest!


----------



## Destroysall

Question regarding Pioneer's SX receivers in terms of their headphone amplifiers.. I own the HiFiMAN EF2A headphone amplifier with the Mullard CV4010 tubes.  Would an SX receiver's headphone amp be better than the HiFiMAN headphone amplifier?


----------



## MattTCG

Headed out to audition this today...
   

   
  Hopefully will come home with a new baby.


----------



## Oregonian

destroysall said:


> Question regarding Pioneer's SX receivers in terms of their headphone amplifiers.. I own the HiFiMAN EF2A headphone amplifier with the Mullard CV4010 tubes.  Would an SX receiver's headphone amp be better than the HiFiMAN headphone amplifier?




I have not heard the HiFiMan amp, but........from hearing an Indeed G-3 tube hybrid and a Schiit Magni and comparing them to both my Kenwoods and Pioneer, it is no contest. The vintage wins hands down. I used to have to double amp even with my Magni (added a Digizoid ZO) to get the bass I wanted until I went straight out of my first Kenwood. No more. I would bet you'll find the SX receiver headphone out to blow you away.


----------



## ardgedee

destroysall said:


> Question regarding Pioneer's SX receivers in terms of their headphone amplifiers.. I own the HiFiMAN EF2A headphone amplifier with the Mullard CV4010 tubes.  Would an SX receiver's headphone amp be better than the HiFiMAN headphone amplifier?




Questions like this are hard to answer in a way that would satisfy you. The HiFiMan and Pioneer receivers are different amps, designed for different purposes, they're intended to sound differently. Which one's better depends on what you have and what your goal is, in terms of sound or the equipment you intend to use.


----------



## Destroysall

ardgedee said:


> Questions like this are hard to answer in a way that would satisfy you. The HiFiMan and Pioneer receivers are different amps, designed for different purposes, they're intended to sound differently. Which one's better depends on what you have and what your goal is, in terms of sound or the equipment you intend to use.


That's a great thing to consider. I planned to add speakers and a turntable to the setup in the future, but at the moment I wanted to use it with my Beyerdynamics DT 990/600 ohm headphone. Still, a demo is probably in order for a decision to be made.


----------



## MattTCG

Are most of these vintage receivers fine to use to drive turntables? 
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## SpeakerBox

I would say that most of the vintage units recommended in this thread do very well with vinyl.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Are most of these vintage receivers fine to use to drive turntables?
> 
> 
> thanks...


 

 Yes, in fact they are THE way to drive them.  A Schiit Magni won't have the proper connections for them.


----------



## captouch

matttcg said:


> Headed out to audition this today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow, you're going big to start. What model is that?

My first vintage receiver was a Yamaha CR-220 for $35. I'm still using it with speaker taps as a HP amp (one of several) for my HE-5LE's. 

Vintage turned into a serious hobby and I ended up buying about 6 more vintage receivers (sold a few, so have 4 left now), 2 vintage turntables, and 3 sets of vintage speakers.

As far as receivers, besides the Yamaha, I still have a HK 730, Sansui QR-6500, and Sansui Eight Deluxe.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Wow, you're going big to start. What model is that?
> 
> My first vintage receiver was a Yamaha CR-220 for $35. I'm still using it with speaker taps as a HP amp (one of several) for my HE-5LE's.
> 
> ...


 

 That vintage bug tends to bite us and none of us can be happy with just one...................I'm up to 3 now and considering another.  Turntable is being picked up this weekend.................jeez.


----------



## Trav

captouch said:


> Wow, you're going big to start. What model is that?
> 
> My first vintage receiver was a Yamaha CR-220 for $35. I'm still using it with speaker taps as a HP amp (one of several) for my HE-5LE's.
> 
> ...


Wow the 8 is nice!!!


----------



## MattTCG

A few things here. I'm lusting over the Sansui because I got to hear it at local meet thanks to Moodryn. Good grief did it sound good. Never heard my maddogs sound so good period. 
   
  The Yamaha looks like my best choice, but the guy called back about the Pioneer sx-650. We got to talking and he'd be willing to trade computer work for the receiver. 
   
  Decisions...decisions.


----------



## Silent One

With summer on the doorstep, things sure are heating up around here!


----------



## Trav

Matt all I can say and I've never heard the 650 or the CR 1000; the 1000 was closer to TOTL than the 650 and puts out twice the wpc. I bought my rig initially as a dedicated hp amp but more quickly than I ever imagined got the speaker bug. The extra power will always be a plus to drive speakers.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> A few things here. I'm lusting over the Sansui because I got to hear it at local meet thanks to Moodryn. Good grief did it sound good. Never heard my maddogs sound so good period.
> 
> The Yamaha looks like my best choice, but the guy called back about the Pioneer sx-650. We got to talking and he'd be willing to trade computer work for the receiver.
> 
> Decisions...decisions.


 
  Pinch of salt required as I'm new to vintage. But my Pioneer sx550 was £95 and I can safely say it is much better than any other hp amp I've heard or tried with my HD800's. Its not too warm or too bright. Very dynamic and powerful sounding yet no hardness in the treble and big- big bass.


----------



## dogwan

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> A few things here. I'm lusting over the Sansui because I got to hear it at local meet thanks to Moodryn. Good grief did it sound good. Never heard my maddogs sound so good period.
> 
> The Yamaha looks like my best choice, but the guy called back about the Pioneer sx-650. We got to talking and he'd be willing to trade computer work for the receiver.
> 
> Decisions...decisions.


 

 @MattTCG
   
  Be sure to do your research on the Yamaha. I've heard that some of them have unobtanium parts. Not sure which ones of which series, but sounds like a pain in the arse if they need service. I'm sure others here know a lot more about Yamaha's than me (which is not much). Just thought I'd mention something I would be looking into if I was contemplating a Yammie.


----------



## LugBug1

And this isn't bad for £27... 
   

   
  In fact I'm over the moon with it. Great sound. From around 1981 with the new Class A business implemented (whatever that is  ) It's totally solid and in near perfect condition.
   
   

   
  I've shipped my Pioneer upstairs for my bedside... The wife is best pleased..


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





dogwan said:


> @MattTCG
> 
> Be sure to do your research on the Yamaha. I've heard that some of them have unobtanium parts. Not sure which ones of which series, but sounds like a pain in the arse if they need service. I'm sure others here know a lot more about Yamaha's than me (which is not much). Just thought I'd mention something I would be looking into if I was contemplating a Yammie.


 

 Yammy Receiver x40 series models lower than CR-2040 have unobtanium. CR-1000 is fine, and check thevintageknob for more info.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> And this isn't bad for £27...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Like your Technics and Rotel, Europe has more good looking Technics and Rotel than US.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Like your Technics and Rotel, Europe has more good looking Technics and Rotel than US.


 
  Thanks. Yeah there does seem to be a good supply here


----------



## Trav

Quick photos of my incoming Dynacos..


----------



## Silent One

Trav_ - Soooo v-e-r-y  s-e-x-y..._


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Trav_ - Soooo v-e-r-y  s-e-x-y..._


 
  +1


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for Trav and Moodryn for the phones calls and help. It's the unsolicited support that makes this place great. I try to do the same whenever I can. I also appreciate the others who posted here. 
   
  I'm going for the sx-650. I just love the sound with the Maddogs and also I owned this receiver when I was 15, so there is some sentimental value there. 
   
  Will post pics, impressions and such in a few days. 
   
  You guys have a great thread here!!


----------



## Silent One

Another happy Vintage Integrated Receiver Owner!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Thanks for Trav and Moodryn for the phones calls and help. It's the unsolicited support that makes this place great. I try to do the same whenever I can. I also appreciate the others who posted here.
> 
> I'm going for the sx-650. I just love the sound with the Maddogs and also I owned this receiver when I was 15, so there is some sentimental value there.
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats and welcome to the club.  Truly glad when guys get the same feeling I did when I found vintage.


----------



## Trav

Getting out the good china...


----------



## moodyrn

moodyrn said:


> Another vintage convert. Welcome to the  vintage darkside Trav.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This house is clean.
My work is done.


----------



## MattTCG

I posted this on the Maddog thread. Thought it was relevant here...
   
 Today I heard the MD on a vintage Pioneer receiver...SX-650. Let me say this...holy crap!!## 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The sound is on another level from the A2. The signature is punchier, more full bodied and there is no looseness to the bass at all. It transformed the MD into a different hp...a better sounding one. 
  
 Does the Pioneer sound better than the lyr on good tubes. Hmm..well, it's damned close. I'll need more time to listen but my initial impression is the it's the pioneer by a hair. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I plan to use the Pioneer to run the maddogs and maybe the he-4 exclusively. 
  
 Now you might be asking, "how much did this 1979 hunk o' metal cost?" Well, it came to a grand total of....wait for it...$100. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I heard several amps at a meet recently that cost between $500-$1000. The Pioneer is closer to high end of that range. The only thing better in that range was another vintage amp...a Sansui. 
  
 Don't be a hater...


----------



## Trav

On your way back fix me a glass of tea....


----------



## Silent One

@ MattTCG... what an indictment!


----------



## moodyrn

Better watch it over there Matt. People over there who spent a lot of money on their headphone amps is not going to want to hear that.
Be prepared for a lot of hate.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I posted this on the Maddog thread. Thought it was relevant here...
> 
> Today I heard the MD on a vintage Pioneer receiver...SX-650. Let me say this...holy crap!!##
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats on your new aquisition!
   
  Which Sansui was it at the meet?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Better watch it over there Matt. People over there who spent a lot of money on their headphone amps is not going to want to hear that.
> Be prepared for a lot of hate.


 
   
  Spare the rod, spoil the child. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





captouch said:


> Congrats on your new aquisition!
> 
> Which Sansui was it at the meet?


 
  Moodyrn's


----------



## Hente

So I have the chance to buy a Pioneer SX-650 or a Technics SA-5150 off someone from Craigslist for $70 each, should I go for one? If so, which one? Anything i should check before I hand the money over?


----------



## MattTCG

Why hp's are you planning to use?


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





hente said:


> So I have the chance to buy a Pioneer SX-650 or a Technics SA-5150 off someone from Craigslist for $70 each, should I go for one? If so, which one? Anything i should check before I hand the money over?


 

 Bring your phones with a LOD connector----->male RCA's------------>plug into the Aux port on the back, turn it on, put the selector to Aux and plug your headphones in.  You'll need a 1/4"--->1/8" adapter with you for your headphones into the jack but that's a good way to make sure the important part of the SX-650 (love Pioneers) works. 
   
  I showed up at the pawn shop with this rig and my D-2000's around my neck when I bought one of my Kenwoods..............guy thought I was nuts.  Wanted to hook up some speakers for me, I said, not necessary, thanks.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I showed up today with a carry bag with the items you suggested above. The guy thought I was nuts also. He was a vintage receiver and speaker guy but not into hp's. I let him listen to the MD's on the sx-650. I wish that I had to a picture of his expression...classic mind blown.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, that will gettem everytime.


----------



## Hente

matttcg said:


> Why hp's are you planning to use?



Gonna be using AKG K240 Sextetts, though I'll also be hooking up Speakers (Sony SS-B3000).
One thing though, will I absolutely need to choose between headphones and speakers this way? Right now I have a headphone amp and a separate speaker amp.



oregonian said:


> Bring your phones with a LOD connector----->male RCA's------------>plug into the Aux port on the back, turn it on, put the selector to Aux and plug your headphones in.  You'll need a 1/4"--->1/8" adapter with you for your headphones into the jack but that's a good way to make sure the important part of the SX-650 (love Pioneers) works.
> 
> I showed up at the pawn shop with this rig and my D-2000's around my neck when I bought one of my Kenwoods..............guy thought I was nuts.  Wanted to hook up some speakers for me, I said, not necessary, thanks.




Alright, thanks to the input.


----------



## Silent One

If I'm feeling motivated - or not on vacay - I may bring out my G-22000 to the Los Angeles meet in September. Only because many have not accessed this ensemble in person before. 
   
  One-time only though...


----------



## MattTCG

I'm trying very hard not to gush into a big puddle of fanboism over the Pioneer I got today. If I look at the situation objectively, this is the best my Maddogs have ever sounded (excluding the Sansui) and the most enjoyment I've gotten listening to them. 
   
  Tomorrow it's time to do a bit of cleaning. Then a trip to Micheal's to see if I can purchase some feaux wood laminate. I might even consider replacing the particle board with real wood. 
   
  Okay...got to slow down a bit...pull in on the reigns. Whew...okay, I'm better now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So I ended up trading a used desktop pc for the Pioneer. The used desktop cost me zero, so basically this has been a good day for MattTCG.


----------



## captouch

MattTCG said:
			
		

> Moodyrn's




Moodyrn, what model Sansui you got? Just curious, I'm a Sansui fan myself.


----------



## moodyrn

A fully restored 9090db


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm trying very hard not to gush into a big puddle of fanboism over the Pioneer I got today. If I look at the situation objectively, this is the best my Maddogs have ever sounded (excluding the Sansui) and the most enjoyment I've gotten listening to them.
> 
> Tomorrow it's time to do a bit of cleaning. Then a trip to Micheal's to see if I can purchase some feaux wood laminate. I might even consider replacing the particle board with real wood.
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats Matt, good choice


----------



## Silent One

Current total:
   
  1 - Dedicated Head-amp
  3 - Vintage Speaker Amps
   
   
  Proposed total (Late Autumn):
   
  2 - Dedicated Head-amps
  1 - Modern Speaker Amp
  5 - Vintage Speaker Amps




   
  I'm really diggin' this _Bang-for-the-buck _experience. The sheer options and flexibility alone for vintage iron...


----------



## Trav

hente said:


> Gonna be using AKG K240 Sextetts, though I'll also be hooking up Speakers (Sony SS-B3000).
> One thing though, will I absolutely need to choose between headphones and speakers this way? Right now I have a headphone amp and a separate speaker amp.
> Alright, thanks to the input.


I had late production Sextets and think you will be very pleased at how vintage gear will open up 600 ohms.


----------



## LugBug1

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Superb-Technics-SU-7300-Vintage-Amplifier-Hardly-Used-Near-Mint-Excellent-/321142844716?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item4ac59aed2c
   
  This looks really interesting. Been in storage for over 30 years. Looks new!


----------



## Trav

No Bin price?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





trav said:


> No Bin price?


 
  I know... But also I think it would be a hard call putting a price on it. I'm on hol when it finishes otherwise I'd be tempted.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys, question. How would going through my bifrost effect the sound on the Pioneer vintage receiver. I have been using a nice sacd player connected to the sx-650 so far. 
   
  I'm thinking that I could use the Pioneer as my primary hp amp though. I'm not sure if it would be too much for my hd650's, but it's perfect with the maddogs. 
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys, question. How would going through my bifrost effect the sound on the Pioneer vintage receiver. I have been using a nice sacd player connected to the sx-650 so far.
> 
> I'm thinking that I could use the Pioneer as my primary hp amp though. I'm not sure if it would be too much for my hd650's, but it's perfect with the maddogs.
> 
> ...


 
  My Pioneer has responded well to the few dacs that I've tried it with. My best dac is the Arcam Rdac and it sounds great to me. Basically the better the dac the better it will sound imo. 
   
  The 650's should be fine, you can always use those tone controls to take a bit warmth down if needed


----------



## Silent One

I'm all for playing with gear. If only because I can...


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey guys, question. How would going through my bifrost effect the sound on the Pioneer vintage receiver. I have been using a nice sacd player connected to the sx-650 so far.


 
   
  No way to find out except to plug it in and try.


----------



## Rawrbington

matttcg said:


> Hey guys, question. How would going through my bifrost effect the sound on the Pioneer vintage receiver. I have been using a nice sacd player connected to the sx-650 so far.
> 
> I'm thinking that I could use the Pioneer as my primary hp amp though. I'm not sure if it would be too much for my hd650's, but it's perfect with the maddogs.
> 
> ...




I'm thinking it'll work great. I haven't had my sx650 in house with the hd650 in a while but I remember it sounding quite alright. 
I always liked the sx650 with headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, the bifrost (uber) feed from the pc with optical cable...then bifrost to aux in on the Pioneer. Sounds great!!
   
  Got the pots and selectors cleaned today. There is NO noise or static at all. Smooth as butter.


----------



## Trav

I run my LT via PICO DAC off mine and love it.


----------



## MattTCG

I've noticed some slight hiss with my hd650 on the Pioneer. Nothing with the Maddogs before. Is there a way to circumvent this? 
   
   
  thanks...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've noticed some slight hiss with my hd650 on the Pioneer. Nothing with the Maddogs before. Is there a way to circumvent this?
> 
> 
> thanks...


 
  Where abouts on the volume pot are you? Is it there when you don't have volume on? 
   
  If I go to about 10 olclock on my pioneer I start to get some slight hiss, but I'm nowhere near there because its sooo loud. 
   
  If it is only when you have it turned up, you could try using a pre-amp to get a desired volume keeping the Pioneer volume low where there is no hiss. 
   
  Last resort, you could turn the treble tone back a little see if it helps, and then compensate the treble with an equalizer.


----------



## MattTCG

I can hear a little hiss even when there is no volume when I'm using the hd650, but none with the MD's. The volume starts at 7 on the Pioneer. Getting to 8 with the hd650 is already medium and 9 is loud. The maddogs are better 9 is medium for them. 
   
  I don't understand the pre-amp out on the Schiit amp. Can I utilize that to help with the hiss issue.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I can hear a little hiss even when there is no volume when I'm using the hd650, but none with the MD's. The volume starts at 7 on the Pioneer. Getting to 8 with the hd650 is already medium and 9 is loud. The maddogs are better 9 is medium for them.
> 
> I don't understand the pre-amp out on the Schiit amp. Can I utilize that to help with the hiss issue.


 
  Might be worth a try. You connect your source to the rca inputs of Schitt as if you were using it as your main amp and then connect the rca outputs to the Pioneer. Make sure all volumes are down. Put music on, and then turn your pioneer up a little and gradually turn up the volume of the Schitt.
   
  I've used my Audio gd as a pre amp and it helps to give me more freedom on the volume.
   
  Must stress, my HD800's are 300ohm the same as the 650's and If I really listen hard I can hear some slight hiss with no volume. I think this is normal with old amps. Your planars won't be showing it because they aren't as sensitive.


----------



## MattTCG

So let me be sure that I understand the chain. Let's say that I'm using my sacd player as source.
   
  SACD (rca to rca inputs on Schiit amp)> RCA out from Schiit to AUX IN on the Pioneer. That pretty much it? Bifrost is not used in this setup because the sacd is being used as dac?
   
  So if you wanted to use the bifrost as source:
   
  RCA out from bifrost to input on schitt amp>rca out of schitt amp to aux in on the Pioneer??
   
  Lastly, is there a way to connect the sacd and bifrost in the chain at the same time without unplugging cables?
   
  Sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advance for the replies.


----------



## MattTCG

I had time to configure my setup with the sacd as source. It did not fix the slight hiss problem. But honestly it is only slight and only with the hd650. You can only hear it with nothing playing so I'm fine with it. 
   
  What it did give me was a huge amount of play with the volume control. This is awesome. Now I'm not trying to deal with about 1 hour of control on the volume pot (hope that makes sense). This hd650 could only take a very smidgeon of volume when plugged into the Pioneer. But now with the pre-amp  I have a good bit of play in the pot which is very nice.
   
  Thanks guys!!


----------



## Skylab

The reason you hear a bit of hiss with the HD-650 and not with the Maddog is that the HD650 is a higher efficiency/sensitivity headphone. The models higher up in the Pioneer line have a -20dB muting feature which both reduces/eliminates that hiss and also allows more volume control play.


----------



## MattTCG

Ah ha.  Oh well. I'm still loving the sx-650 and having good success using the schiit as pre-amp. More tinkering to be done still.


----------



## shipsupt

You could add an attenuator in line to the headphones as well, which would essentially do the same thing that the -20dB switch does.


----------



## randerson07

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The reason you hear a bit of hiss with the HD-650 and not with the Maddog is that the HD650 is a higher efficiency/sensitivity headphone. The models higher up in the Pioneer line have a -20dB muting feature which both reduces/eliminates that hiss and also allows more volume control play.


 
  I always wondered what that -20db switch was for. My Onkyo 6500 mkii has that button and Ive never used it. I certainly have a number of albums and cds that have quite a bit of hiss. A remaster of DSOTM has a ton of it, both on headphones and HPM-100s, Ill have to give that little button a push and see what happens.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I had time to configure my setup with the sacd as source. It did not fix the slight hiss problem. But honestly it is only slight and only with the hd650. You can only hear it with nothing playing so I'm fine with it.
> 
> What it did give me was a huge amount of play with the volume control. This is awesome. Now I'm not trying to deal with about 1 hour of control on the volume pot (hope that makes sense). This hd650 could only take a very smidgeon of volume when plugged into the Pioneer. But now with the pre-amp  I have a good bit of play in the pot which is very nice.
> 
> Thanks guys!!


 
  Sorry for the late reply bud. Yeah using a pre can be helpful especially if you ever use speakers as well. It takes the stress off the main amp and you get loads of poooowweerr!!


----------



## moodyrn

I know this is an integrated/receiver thread, but I just found the perfect match visually and sonically for my sansui. Here's a copy of a post I just made in the vintage speaker thread.
   
   
   
   
  Well I've had my cornwalls a couple of days now. I was hesitant to trade my heavily modded forte II's plus cash for them. I read quiet a few people prefer a tricked out forte over a stock cornwall. But these cornwalls are so far beyond stock, and are also a very rare model(vertical horns). So I decided these were too good to pass up. And wow did this turn out to be one of the best decisions I've ever made. I really, really loved my tricked out fortes and would put them up against  most speaker costing upwards of 5k. So I thought with all of the upgrades and mods these would be just a step above.
   
  Boy was I wrong. These sound so much better than my fortes, it's shocking. I guess all of the mods really paid off big time. It's been a long time since I've listened to a stock cornwall, but I don't remember them sounding anywhere near this good. These have a much higher level of refinement, bass that extends way down low, and  resolution galore. They can play at  earth shattering levels without a hint of distortion. The treble is extended, lifelike, and delicate all at the same time. The mids have he-6 level transparency. It's amazing how effortless the bass sounds. It's very punchy, full, deep, and also as tight as the bass from so called bass lite speakers and headphones, with a very naturalness to it. As deep as it is, it never dominates any other part of the freqency range.
   
  The woofers have been upgraded to crites custom made cast frame woofers(basic stamped steel on stock ones). The tweeter have been upgraded to crites as well. But unlike for other klipsch which only the diaphragm is upgraded, the entire driver assemble is replaced. Another rarity about these are the horns. Most of the cornwall uses horns made of plastic, but these have the metal horns(the upgraded crites tweets does as well). Also the crossover have been completely rebuilt into something totally different from the stock ones. Internal bracing has been added with very high quality banana post. I initially though the back of the cabinet had been replaced, but the original is still in place, instead someone added a solid piece of hardwood to reinforce the cabinet structure. All internal wiring has been replaced with most if it being silver plated copper.
   

   

   
  These may be the best sounding cornwalls in existence and probably to most rare at that. The cabinets are in excellent shape, but was a little dull. So I have them a good rub down with steel wool and howard's restore followed by howards' feed n wax.

   


   
   
  These things are so massive, it's are to get both of them in one shot. Please excuse my speaker cables. I custom made them for my fortes with the terminal being on the bottom. They're on the top with these and are now a couple of feet too short.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I know this is an integrated/receiver thread, but I just found the perfect match visually and sonically for my sansui. Here's a copy of a post I just made in the vintage speaker thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Great job. I'm trying to imagine the size, as they make your receiver look small!. Perfect match with the Sansui. Makes me wanna get some speakers again...


----------



## MattTCG

Hey Moody...those are just gorgeous. Congrats on your aquisition. Someday I may get back into speakers. Hp's have been the sole driving force for me for the past five years. But those look wonderful and I'm sure that they sound the same. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  When I picked up the Pioneer I recently acquired, the guy let me know listen to some German speakers that I had never heard of. Maybe someone here knows them...Grundig Box series. The sound was just fantastic. I couldn't stop thinking about them and called him back about getting them. Of course they were gone. Some times you have to be ready to pull the trigger when the opportunity is there. Seems like that you did just that and were rewarded.


----------



## moodyrn

lugbug1 said:


> Great job. I'm trying to imagine the size, as they make your receiver look small!. Perfect match with the Sansui. Makes me wanna get some speakers again...


 
   
  Thanks! They are massive. They are 36in tall, but they're so wide(25in), they can actually come off as short in a lot of pics. But luckily they are not fussy about placement. You have two options....hugging the wall or in the corners. So the fact I can place them right up against the wall instead of out in the room like other klipsch speakers(forte, chorus etc) kind of make up for their massive size. In that aspect, they actually take up less of the room than my much smaller forte II's did.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hey Moody...those are just gorgeous. Congrats on your aquisition. Someday I may get back into speakers. Hp's have been the sole driving force for me for the past five years. But those look wonderful and I'm sure that they sound the same.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks Matt, yeah I was lucky enough to be the first caller. I called an hour after he listed them. He was nice enough to hold them for a couple of days before I made the trip over to get them.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Congrats! This post easily made my Friday. A way for me to share in your joy without spending any money! Ahhh... but someday, we gonna get us some Klipsch, too!


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## MattTCG

Where did you have to go to pick them up?


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, the atl, norcross to be exact.


----------



## MattTCG

Interesting...Trav found a really nice Yamaha for me there. I almost drove out there to get it till I found the Pioneer. Wait...brain cramp, it was Newnan. They both started with an N though.


----------



## BearWant

Hello all,
   
  So I struck out on the pioneer sx-950 that you all gave me advice on.  Thanks everyone who chimed in.  The seller never called back.  However, I just ran into this sexy beast http://baltimore.craigslist.org/ele/3869218349.html.  The sansui 890db.  Obviously it has a lot of cosmetic issues including no outside vinyl, cracked glass, and a few lights are out.  What is a fair offer provided it sounds good, which he claims it does.  He is currently asking $150.  Man sansui looks so good in black.


----------



## Skylab

If you wanted to restore it cosmetically, you're looking at about $100 for a new cabinet, $30-40 for LEDs (assuming you install yourself), and maybe $70 or so to have new dial glass cut. So maybe $200. If the receiver really works flawlessly you would then have a nice looking good sounding 890 for $350. WIN. Just depends of you have the patience to get her all fixed up, or don't care about the cosmetic issues.


----------



## moodyrn

I agree. Provided it works as advertised, a total of 350 is a good price for something so rare. It's the euro version of the 8080 which is a very nice receiver.


----------



## LugBug1

Just wanted to bang on a bit more about my newest purchase. The Technics SU-V3
   
  Pictured here 
   
   

   
  May not be the prettiest amp out there, but I'm really impressed with the sound. Very open and detailed with typical (vintage) strong deep bass. Again I've no need to use the tone controls. It also defeats them when not using. I get a black backround right up until 12 oclock on this. Can't get passed 9 though without hurting my ears. It doesn't sound as analogue as my Pioneer and has a more crisp detail at the top. It sounds fab with classical. 
   
  Can't believe I snapped this up for less than £30. 1981 and the condition looks to be a couple of year old! The most I've spent on a headphone amp was £250 and this really is a lot better sounding. 
   
  wowza.


----------



## Meewoo

Congrats Moodyrn.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I do think Cornwall is more balanced than Forte. I found stocked Forte has fatigue high and little boomy low. But man, Cornwall is so balanced, you don't feel you are listening a Horn based speakers.
   
  BTW, did you finalize your KA-907 restore project? I might have my 907 restored too, and I'm in the line to get a supreme 500.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, the first available slot the guy I'm using has is early August. So I'm patiently waiting. 

Concerning the fortes, the titanium diaphragms fixes the problems with highs and mids if go go for mid titaniums as well. As for bass, it gets tighter the farther you move them from the walls. But you also sacrifice output. So you loss in one area and gain in another depending on placement.


----------



## MattTCG

I have a one light out on the right side behind the glass just over the stereo light. Can someone tell me where to get it?
   
  thanks...
   
  Oh, looking good Ladybug. The fact that you're getting "strong bass" and have the hd800 speaks volumes for the amp.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Thanks, the first available slot the guy I'm using has is early August. So I'm patiently waiting.
> 
> Concerning the fortes, the titanium diaphragms fixes the problems with highs and mids if go go for mid titaniums as well. As for bass, it gets tighter the farther you move them from the walls. But you also sacrifice output. So you loss in one area and gain in another depending on placement.


 
  Thanks for Klipsch tips!!
   
  So you will ship 907 to IL (sorry if I am wrong)?  I will wait for your feedback about your restore then (haha, I am taking advantage of you).


----------



## LugBug1

Ladybug? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   





 
   
  Do we have any pics of the new Pioneer Matt? Now you know we like pics here!


----------



## MattTCG

Ask and you shall receive. Now it's rough but I'm making progress, so be nice. The glass and knobs are mint. I suspect that they've been replaced.  No static on any of the pots. Got to get the light on the right side replaced. Maybe even go with a nice blue look.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Ladybug?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry..my b. Lugbug. I call my daughter ladybug as a pet name sometimes.


----------



## moodyrn

meewoo said:


> Thanks for Klipsch tips!!
> 
> So you will ship 907 to IL (sorry if I am wrong)?  I will wait for your feedback about your restore then (haha, I am taking advantage of you).




Lol, yep. It's going to IL. I will give you a complete rundown of the entire process.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Ask and you shall receive. Now it's rough but I'm making progress, so be nice. The glass and knobs are mint. I suspect that they've been replaced.  No static on any of the pots. Got to get the light on the right side replaced. Maybe even go with a nice blue look.


 
  Well, that is a beauty! Puts mine to shame! 
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Sorry..my b. Lugbug. I call my daughter ladybug as a pet name sometimes.


 
  hahaha


----------



## Skylab

What light is out, Matt, one of the general illumination lights?


----------



## BearWant

Not to ignite a sanui vs. pioneer debate, but I've noticed all the talk surrounding Matt's much underrated sx-650.  There has been a 650 posted for my area priced at $100.  The owner notes no cosmetic or functional issues.  Strictly in terms of sound quality, which would be the better bang for the buck, the sx-650 or the 890db I had posted earlier?  From what I've read of the 890db tend to be on the warm side, as opposed to pioneer generally being brighter?  The receiver my new purchase would be complementing is the NAD 7750, which I think tends to lean towards warm particularly if I use loudness switch.  My headphone is the HE-500.


----------



## Skylab

The SX-650 has less power, and less features, than the 890. The SX-xx50 line isn't as warm sounding as Sansui x0x0 series, but it's definitely not bright. Still slightly warm.


----------



## LugBug1

Agreed, slightly warm but not bright, really quite natural sounding. I know the HE500's well and I'd say they would be a good match. The Hifimans have great treble, but can be unpredictable with different amps regarding the spikes at the top. My Pioneer has such a smooth treble with my HD800's and I think it will serve the HE500's well in this area and also help bring out the soundstage.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> What light is out, Matt, one of the general illumination lights?


 
  Yes, that's the one. I found a whole kit on ebay with the lights included for $35. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-650-am-fm-stereo-receiver-MISC-COMPONENT-SPARE-PART-LOT-/251277273241
  Quote: 





bearwant said:


> Not to ignite a sanui vs. pioneer debate, but I've noticed all the talk surrounding Matt's much underrated sx-650.  There has been a 650 posted for my area priced at $100.  The owner notes no cosmetic or functional issues.  Strictly in terms of sound quality, which would be the better bang for the buck, the sx-650 or the 890db I had posted earlier?  From what I've read of the 890db tend to be on the warm side, as opposed to pioneer generally being brighter?  The receiver my new purchase would be complementing is the NAD 7750, which I think tends to lean towards warm particularly if I use loudness switch.  My headphone is the HE-500.


 
  FWIW, I'm stunned by the quality of the sound coming from the sx-650. The bass goes very deep with what sounds like "expensive" weight to it. All the texture is there are well. I've gotten to do a good bit of listening today. I was worried that bassier material might be loose and bloomy. Not so at all. I listened to Jennifer Warnes: Bird on a Wire from the Famous Blue Raincoat album. This track has some of the best textured bass drum that you'll hear anywhere. I used +1 on the bass knob and the bass just rocked me. 
   
  Then I threw on the new Daft Punk for some hard hitting sub bass. I had to back the bass off to +0 and it was perfect. Never out of control and my head shake. I've owned lot's amps, but I don't I have ever had as much fun as with the sx-650. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Must be a vintage thing.


----------



## Skylab

Just PM me your address, Matt, I will send you a replacement lamp.


----------



## calipilot227

The new bedroom stack is up and running. Used exclusively with my HD650s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   
  Cleaned all the controls with DeOxit, adjusted DC offset (was almost 1 volt, now down to 19). Not going to lie, this is the best I've heard my HD650s sound. Now to do something about the Maverick... (tons of digital noise, even over an optical connection 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Tuner is the TX-6500 II, gets pretty good reception with a Terk indoor antenna. There are a few good stations in San Jose, so it's not just for show.


----------



## LugBug1

Skylab ya a goodun


----------



## BearWant

Maybe I need to resist the sex appeal of a pioneer or a sansui and look for something a bit brighter.  I haven't been around the audio block long enough to clearly establish my sound signature preferences.  Don't mistake me, I love the HE-500s.  However, at times at least with the ODAC>NAD 7150 (sorry got model wrong on my last post) it can sound a little too thick for my taste.  Due to this, I feel at times, I struggle in separating each instrument and voice out.  They can sound closed in as well.  I have also heard the he-500 on a vintage marantz, as well as my 02.  I haven't intensely A/Bed the 02 vs. the NAD, but there are times where I may prefer its more neutral and clean presentation.  It's just that I don't know that the he-500 has ever wowed me like etymotic hf5.  I feel it should for the price difference. There is just something magic about that IEM.  Obviously, it lacks in many areas compared to the he-500, but something about its sound gels with me.  Perhaps its due to that crisp thinner sound in which each instrument and voice is clearly articulated.  I feel things with the he-500s can sometimes get smoothed over and lack bite as well.  With that said, there are times where I find myself wishing I had more fun injected in to the music when listening to the etys.
   
   Anyway, I feel I'm starting to ramble.  I guess my question is what is considered a more neutral to brighter signature in vintage world?


----------



## palmfish

You sound like me one year ago...lol. The HE-500 didnt work for me either for the same reasons you mention. I also prefer "fast" "articulate" and "clear" sound (I have HF5's too).

Ive said this many times before - instead of trying to make headphones you dont like sound "better," just get headphones you do like. In my experience, headphones that "resemble" the HF5 in general signature are the Sennheiser HD558 and HD800. Yes, I own them too.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





bearwant said:


> Maybe I need to resist the sex appeal of a pioneer or a sansui and look for something a bit brighter.  I haven't been around the audio block long enough to clearly establish my sound signature preferences.  Don't mistake me, I love the HE-500s.  However, at times at least with the ODAC>NAD 7150 (sorry got model wrong on my last post) it can sound a little too thick for my taste.  Due to this, I feel at times, I struggle in separating each instrument and voice out.  They can sound closed in as well.  I have also heard the he-500 on a vintage marantz, as well as my 02.  I haven't intensely A/Bed the 02 vs. the NAD, but there are times where I may prefer its more neutral and clean presentation.  It's just that I don't know that the he-500 has ever wowed me like etymotic hf5.  I feel it should for the price difference. There is just something magic about that IEM.  Obviously, it lacks in many areas compared to the he-500, but something about its sound gels with me.  Perhaps its due to that crisp thinner sound in which each instrument and voice is clearly articulated.  I feel things with the he-500s can sometimes get smoothed over and lack bite as well.  With that said, there are times where I find myself wishing I had more fun injected in to the music when listening to the etys.
> 
> Anyway, I feel I'm starting to ramble.  I guess my question is what is considered a more neutral to brighter signature in vintage world?


 
   
  Hmmm...those he500's really aren't that good now that I think of it. Maybe you should sell them to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (yes, you want to sell them to MattTCG. Yes you do.)


----------



## Trav

Question. A common description I hear from many when moving to vintage gear is "treble and bass extension",(myself included). Can anyone teach me why this is?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





trav said:


> Question. A common description I hear from many when moving to vintage gear is "treble and bass extension",(myself included). Can anyone teach me why this is?


 
   
  The guys running the companies then were into audio. That thinking trickled down to the engineers designing the gears.


----------



## MattTCG

Today I'm taking my receiver to my Uncle's. He is a master furniture maker. He plans to rebuild the wood pieces of the Pioneer to replace the original plywood. The will bring a new level of beauty to this wonderful piece of gear. 
   
  Any suggestions on the wood type? Most of the furniture in my office is oak including the cabinet that the receiver rest on. But I'm open to options. 
   
  On a different note, I've been on the he400 thread for about a year and a half which I started. I've tried my best to help people interested in that hp understand the strengths and weaknesses of that hp and help them decide if the purchase made sense for them. I also gave advice on all the different amps and dacs that I've owned and which ones paired well with the he400.
   
  How nice it is to be active in a thread where I really don't know that much. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm kind of enjoying being the noob.


----------



## LugBug1

Hmmm.. What about antique Mahogany?


----------



## MattTCG

That would be interesting. Not sure if he has it but will check. Walnut would be the closed to the feau laminate used originally.


----------



## LugBug1

Walnut looks good


----------



## MattTCG

Walnut does look good and would maintain the vintage look. Classy, original...I like it.


----------



## MattTCG

There is a switch (locked in place with a screw) on the back of the sx-650 that says 25 and 75. Um...what does it do?


----------



## SpeakerBox

That is to switch between 75us and 25us de-emphasis for the FM.  Different regions has a different response curve.  In essence that de-emphasis brings the highs back down after being boosted at the transmitter thereby reducing noise.  You want 75us in the US.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> There is a switch (locked in place with a screw) on the back of the sx-650 that says 25 and 75. Um...what does it do?


 

 Must say I am surprised it has a 25us selection on it - I thought that was for Dolby FM which really never took off.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Perfect...thanks for the info!!


----------



## 99-1

Hi what is your idea about my set?
   

   
   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
 I’m looking  for user manual of  this pioneer(AX-750) can any one help me?


----------



## MattTCG

Are those mini separate components?


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Are those mini separate components?


 
   
  what do you mean?


----------



## MattTCG

Are they fulled sized or the "mini" version?


----------



## wes008

Alright vintage receiver fans! I'm in the market for a receiver with a headphone amp that has a low output impedance (might not exist) and a decent phono stage. My current digital setup has a dac/amp combo unit, so I can't use it with a turntable


----------



## BearWant

I feel like there have been some excellent finds lately for CL in my area, and this one may be the one to jump on.  My newest find http://annapolis.craigslist.org/ele/3872660609.html   I own neither a turntable nor speakers, but have been wanting to enter into that world as well.  It is a pioneer sx-950 (seemingly great condition), refurbished HPM-100s, and a technics SL-1200.
   
  My only reluctancy is that I'm seeing mixed reviews for the HPM-100s and I couldn't find much on the SL-1200 that is not the MK2 version.  I'm not even sure what the right questions to ask are when purchasing a used turntable.  Also, should I be concerned about the fact that the speakers are refurbished?
   
   From what I gathered for this price it seems criminal to pass up and would serve as a nice entry vintage setup, as well as a way to drive my HE-500.  What you all think?  Does anyone have any reason why I and this rig should not be married?


----------



## MattTCG

Depending on the condition, I'd say that price is fair. Others may chime in here. I was in the market for a Pioneer and ended up with the 650 but also looked at the 950. The great thing about Craigslist is that you can go out and actually check it for yourself. Ebay is just too risky and the shipping stinks on gear this heavy. Take a source and some headphones and go out there and check it out. Now get busy!!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bearwant said:


> I feel like there have been some excellent finds lately for CL in my area, and this one may be the one to jump on.  My newest find http://annapolis.craigslist.org/ele/3872660609.html   I own neither a turntable nor speakers, but have been wanting to enter into that world as well.  It is a pioneer sx-950 (seemingly great condition), refurbished HPM-100s, and a technics SL-1200.


 
  I don't know what consumption level is at your area, but it will be long gone in my area. Pioneer sx-950 alone will fetch $300 easily if in good condition.


----------



## Rawrbington

yeah
  thats a pretty good deal
  hpm 100 and sx 950 both go for around 300 each in my parts as well


----------



## Silent One

That deal would've been _down-the-street (finished)! _


----------



## Trav

R





bearwant said:


> I feel like there have been some excellent finds lately for CL in my area, and this one may be the one to jump on.  My newest find http://annapolis.craigslist.org/ele/3872660609.html
> I own neither a turntable nor speakers, but have been wanting to enter into that world as well.  It is a pioneer sx-950 (seemingly great condition), refurbished HPM-100s, and a technics SL-1200.
> 
> 
> ...


RUN do not walk! That is a steal. I own the 100's and am of the "love em" camp. You will be hard pressed to find the speakers for $300 alone. Not to mention there are only 2 on EB right now with BIN prices of $250 and $225 not including shipping.


----------



## Trav

I meant there are only 2 SX 950 on EB, sorry.


----------



## Silent One

I thought it was natural for Bears to claw, rip and plunder through picnic baskets...


----------



## Skylab

Bear I hoped you stopped posting and SPRINTED to that guys house. That was the deal of the century. If in nice shape that stuff could have easily gone for $1K total.


----------



## BearWant

He has a guy checking it out tonight... If he doesn't purchase I'm planning on going tomorrow or Monday with cash in hand... He said there is some static om the phono... Regarding the refurbishing I guess the subwoofers were flipped upside down he said something was dragging did not really understand that


----------



## Silent One

This is great to hear!


----------



## PhoenixG

Hmm. I would doubt they will still be there Monday. Regarding the HPM-100's I am staring a a set here in my dining room now. They don't compare to my McIntosh speakers or to their big brother HPM-150's, but they are still very good for their price point. If the woofers are "dragging" (assume voice coil rubbing) they may need to be realigned and were probably stored somewhere HOT (like a garage). If flipping them solved it, I'd leave them be. I think realignment is possible on these if you find the right tech. The obvious problem is that the midranges were switched out. You might consider dropping about $80 to get the right replacement parts off the 'bay.
  As for the pioneer, I think the consensus is clear - don't walk there, run there.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow what deal! If for some reason you don't like the 950, sell it get you 300.00 back and keep the rest for free. If for some reason you don't like the hpms, sell them get you money back and keep the rest free. But I couldn't see anyone not liking both. And that turntable isn't bad either. It's probably already gone though.


----------



## 99-1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Are they fulled sized or the "mini" version?


 

  fulled
  (amp & ...= 36*58cm
  speaker= 32*58cm )


----------



## Hente

Is there any way to use either the HP out or Speaker out on a Pioneer SX424 separately? Will probably be getting one for $20 - $30 soon and I want to use both my speakers and Sextetts for it, only want to use one at a time though.

Edit: Is the SX424 still worth it at $40?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





hente said:


> Is there any way to use either the HP out or Speaker out on a Pioneer SX424 separately? Will probably be getting one for $20 - $30 soon and I want to use both my speakers and Sextetts for it, only want to use one at a time though.


 
  Yes there is an option to turn speakers off if you want to use headphone only.


----------



## Oregonian

[quote name="Hente" url="/t/537704/
Edit: Is the SX424 still worth it at $40?[/quote]

Your call, but compare it to any other headphone amp and the answer becomes easy. You get a great headphone amp that can drive speakers and if for some reason you want to listen to FM (here in Portland it does not even have a station I would listen to) you have that. Go for it.


----------



## Silent One

"Happy Father's Day!" to my fellow vintage receiver owners...


----------



## Trav

D





silent one said:


> "Happy Father's Day!" to my fellow vintage receiver owners...


Ditto!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> "Happy Father's Day!" to my fellow vintage receiver owners...


 






 
   
  And to celebrate, here's a rather fruity pic of a vintage (and very famous) supermodel with her hifi.


----------



## Meewoo

This is too Vintage!!
   
  I like Silent one's avatar more, could you post a full size pic??


----------



## MattTCG

Happy Father's Day to all the dads.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> *This is too Vintage!!*
> 
> I like Silent one's avatar more, could you post a full size pic??


 
   
  Ok one more, but only because its fathers day. Apologies to those of a nervous disposition.. But that's one sweet rack!  Marantz I think?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> This is too Vintage!!
> 
> I like Silent one's avatar more, could you post a full size pic??


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/582597/explain-your-avatar/2295


----------



## Trav

Bought my first SHM SACD last night. I picked up a Sony NS 500V SACD player for change. Curious how my vintage gear will pair with newer technology. Any experience guys?


----------



## ardgedee

If the Sony outputs a decent signal, you'll do fine. The standards and norms for analog connections haven't changed meaningfully for, oh, decades...


----------



## Skylab

My vintage Pioneer rig has the most modern source component possible in the AUX input - a Pioneer N-50 Network Audio Player/DAC. Plays my iTunes library (lossless) via AirPlay. Sounds incredible.


----------



## Silent One

Is your AUX input stock or upgrade?


----------



## Meewoo

Is there any obvious difference between SACD and CD in 2 channels setting?
  I borrowed some SACDs for 2 channel listening, and I didn't find noticeable improvement.


----------



## Silent One

? > ?? > ??? what was your chain out of curiosity?


----------



## palmfish

meewoo said:


> Is there any obvious difference between SACD and CD in 2 channels setting?
> I borrowed some SACDs for 2 channel listening, and I didn't find noticeable improvement.




The debate about SACD vs. CD is (was) as heated as the debates about cables. Personally, given the same master, I cannot tell the difference. Others claim they can.


----------



## Silent One

When I reached the crossroads of SACD vs DVD-A, I didn't have money for both. And placed my investment down on the latter.


----------



## calipilot227

This, although SACD sometimes has a different (better) master. I only buy SACDs when I can't get my hands on a good vinyl pressing of the album.

My rig, FWIW (2 channel):
Denon 2910 -> XiangSheng 728A tube pre (Marantz 7 reproduction) -> Hafler DH220 -> Magnepan MGII


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> Is your AUX input stock or upgrade?




I would say it's "stock"...meaning not modified from the original, other than the fact that my whole SX-1980 was completely recapped. But that wouldn't impact the usability of the AUX input for a modern source one way or the other.


----------



## Silent One

My own vintage irons take modern sources business as usual, as well...


----------



## tribestros

I just wanted to drop in to let everyone know my Marantz 2252b is still rocking out like the day I received her...


----------



## MattTCG

How long does that make?


----------



## Silent One

Almost didn't recognize you, tribestros... with the new avatar! Glad to learn of your continued satisfaction. That's the kind of gears I like!


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Ok one more, but only because its fathers day. Apologies to those of a nervous disposition.. But that's one sweet rack!  Marantz I think?


 
   
  There's a stereo in that picture?


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> There's a stereo in that picture?


 
   
  If you look _reeeeeeaaaalllllllll close...._


----------



## PhoenixG

Soooo I picked up a Sony STR-6065 on an itchy trigger finger type of buy. I read a few kinda biased sounding gushing reviews and thought I'd give one a shot. It showed up with a huge split in walnut case. It's annoying, but the electronics still seem to be in good shape save a few burnt out bubls. So, make sure the corners are protected when you ship I suppose. Thankfully, I have a local guy who specializes in stereo cabinets who will fix it for me.

  Anyways, I thought it would be fine, not amazing, not bad, just ok. WRONG!
  I initially listened to it and was shocked by how good it sounded. I usually listen to the ones I pick up and quickly judge that they are not as good as my SX-1980. I send them on their way without much more testing besides for full functionality.
  This one had sound quality that was impossible to ignore.
   
  Let's start from the top - the tuner is very good. The SX-1980 is slightly better, but the fact that I'm mentioning these in the same breath should tell you something. The noise floor in the tuner is just slightly higher than the 1980's, it's there, but still very low. I'm going to clean up the whole thing with DeOxit and check to see it is up to spec in a few days and re-test it.
  There's a separate tone control for each left and right channels, which is a cool trick. Useful if you have one speaker in a corner or something.
  Also, there's a lo-freq center channel output for a powered sub! In an amp from the 60's!? WOW!
  2 phono inputs, 2 aux inputs (on on the front), very cool.
  Let's talk about the sound quality - it is the definition of sweet and musical. Crystal clear. The full two syllable dayum. A very little bit light in the bass, but can be adjusted up to adequate levels. I think that's more a factor of the speakers I have on it, McIntosh XR-16's, than the receiver. With the right speakers, or the powered sub used, I'm sure the bass would come in flawlessly, too.
  Great highs and midrange sound, indiscernible distortion. Sounds good with all sorts of music.
  Downside: only 90WPC. It's adequate for daily use and still plenty loud, but at higher near full volumes, you get the sense that it's tapped out. Let's be real here though - 90 WPC is plenty for a decent size room. I have it in a 25X18 room in a masonry house and full volume is a tiny bit too loud.
  In terms of clarity and distortion levels on an absolute level, it is still fantastic. I ran the cable input to it and it still sounded great with HDTV, people talking, movies, sitcoms, etc - still very clear and good. You can tell right away if a receiver sounds muddy if plain voices sound weird. Even if you can't put your finger on why it's off, you know it's not right. You want it to sound like they're right there.
  If the 1980 is a 10, this is a 9.7. Probably a statistical tie.For how little these things go for and how often they pop up, I think this is my new go-to "bang for the buck" vintage receiver for friends I'm turning to vintage converts. 
  Here's your stereo pr0n. No chicks sitting on this one, sorry.


----------



## MattTCG

^^Very nice!! What did you give for the Sony if you don't mind me asking? Ebay?


----------



## Trav

S





phoenixg said:


> Soooo I picked up a Sony STR-6065 on an itchy trigger finger type of buy. I read a few kinda biased sounding gushing reviews and thought I'd give one a shot. It showed up
> with a huge split in
> walnut case. It's annoying, but the electronics
> still
> ...


----------



## kenshinhimura

I'm looking at two vintage amps and was wondering which would be better to use from the headphone out. They are the Pioneer SX-880 and Sansui G-4700. It would be powering hifiman he-500/he-5le and philips fidelio x1 for the moment. Thanks.


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> How long does that make?


 
   
  Not sure. Four/five months? It's taken a lot of use. Definitely got it on a line filter, too.
   
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Almost didn't recognize you, tribestros... with the new avatar! Glad to learn of your continued satisfaction. That's the kind of gears I like!


 
   
  Haha, yeah, I've had the Thom Yorke one forever, but NEW NIN ALBUM!


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> I'm looking at two vintage amps and was wondering which would be better to use from the headphone out. They are the Pioneer SX-880 and Sansui G-4700. It would be powering hifiman he-500/he-5le and philips fidelio x1 for the moment. Thanks.


 
   
  Haven't heard Sansui, but the Pioneer is great. Seeing as it has the same power output of my SA-8500, it should sound quite good.


----------



## MattTCG

The sx-636 has turned up on CL locally. I was looking to add a Marantz or Sansui, but what do you all think of the hp output for the 636?
   
  thanks...


----------



## moodyrn

It's the model that preceded the 650. So they should be very close in overall performance and probably slightly warmer.


----------



## MattTCG

How does $100 sound for very good condition?


----------



## moodyrn

That's a decent but not great price. I would hold out for something else since you already have the 650.


----------



## Silent One

We stand a chance if we can moderate the addiction early... _great call, moodyrn._


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, yes it can be very addictive as many of us already know. Once you hear what something like a sx650 can do, your first reaction is "wow if this one sounds this good, how good will xyz sound". Just think about it, after the sx650, you still have 750, 850, 950, 1050, 1250. And that's just one line from one manufacturer. You still have the sx-xx80 lineup and the sx-x3x line up. Again from the same manufacturer.
   
  Then you have multiple lineups from sansui, marantz, yamaha, kenwood etc. Then you have receivers from little known brands that were built just as good as the popular brands. But wait, you still have multiple lineups from multiple brands when it come to the integrated side. But wait, you still have multiple lines of power amp/preamp separates from all of the brands as well. Before know it, you can end up with enough vintage gear to open up you own store.
   
  And the real beauty of it is. For the price of one dedicated headphone amp, you can have a equally great sounding vintage rig in multiple rooms in your place. Or a different amp for every pair of headphone you have with money left to spare. This is the beauty of vintage audio.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## captouch

Posting pics of my four vintage receivers.  
   
  Yamaha CR-220 - just used for headphone duty now, with XLR cable hooked up to speaker outputs:

   
  Harman Kardon 730 - powering Infinity P363 speakers:

   
  Sansui QR-6500 - powering Paradigm 11SE Mk II's:
   

   
   
  Finally, Sansui Eight Deluxe - powering IMF TLS 50 Mk II's:

   
  The three receivers connected to full size speakers also are sometimes used for headphone duty from the headphone jacks.


----------



## Silent One

What a club! How much for membership, again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Nice ensemble, captouch.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol, yes it can be very addictive as many of us already know. Once you hear what something like a sx650 can do, your first reaction is "wow if this one sounds this good, how good will xyz sound". Just think about it, after the sx650, you still have 750, 850, 950, 1050, 1250. And that's just one line from one manufacturer. You still have the sx-xx80 lineup and the sx-x3x line up. Again from the same manufacturer.
> 
> Then you have multiple lineups from sansui, marantz, yamaha, kenwood etc. Then you have receivers from little known brands that were built just as good as the popular brands. But wait, you still have multiple lineups from multiple brands when it come to the integrated side. But wait, you still have multiple lines of power amp/preamp separates from all of the brands as well. Before know it, you can end up with enough vintage gear to open up you own store.
> 
> And the real beauty of it is. For the price of one dedicated headphone amp, you can have a equally great sounding vintage rig in multiple rooms in your place. Or a different amp for every pair of headphone you have with money left to spare. This is the beauty of vintage audio.


 
   
  Of course you are right. When I first heard the sx-650 setup at my house I though for a second, "I must still be plugged into the lyr." Then you glance over and realized just how good the vintage gear can sound. And sure I realize that there is no warranty or gaurantee but for the money it's hard to have this much fun period. The thrill of the chase is there. And if you enjoy a bit of simple DIY, the fun will continue. There is no skirting around it...I'm hooked. I blame it on Moodyrn for bring his Sansui to the Atlanta meet. Once I heard what his old receiver did for my hp's, that was it. Plus it was just a beautiful looking unit.


----------



## captouch

silent one said:


> What a club! How much for membership, again?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nowhere near your G-22000 , but all picked up for reasonable $ and very enjoyable.

The Yamaha just needed the tuning dial freed up (hardened grease), but the HK needed no work, though lights could be replaced here and there on both.

The Sansui QR needed a cap and transistor replaced to wake up a bad channel (3/4 were good) and the Eight Deluxe had a frayed wire and cold solder joint that needed fixing. 

Just to give those considering vintage an idea of what type of work could be involved to get things up and running,

Of courses, all received DeOxit treatment and some light cleaning,


----------



## Silent One

After reading about the legendary wars between electronic firms in the '70's, maybe what this hobby needs now is a good ol' fashion _Arms Race... The Sequel. _


----------



## MattTCG

Today, I have acquired the following setup: 
   
  bifrost/uber>A2 (pre-amp)>pioneer sx-650>he-4 (new today)
   
  I owned the he-4 once before but I don't feel that I was giving them enough juice. I figured that I'd really get the stretch the legs on sx-650 with a power hungry hp like the he-4. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cues up foobar (waspi/bitperfect)...double click Alice in Chains: MTvUnplugged. Turn the volume to twelve to give the he-4 a little something to chew on. Wait a moment to hear the bass guitar hit...
   
  O' don't take me now cause I may have just reached the hp promise land. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The deep texture of the bass guitar goes really, really deep. The sound stage is huge. All the instruments are so clear and natural. 
   
  This is why I listen to hp's....


----------



## Meewoo

Kenwood Model 500 and Luxman 5L15.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> .
> This is why I listen to hp's....


 
  And why you'll never stop listening to vintage amps.........................


----------



## Skylab

Wow, Meewoo, those are NICE! Congrats. How do you like them?


----------



## wes008

Hey all! I found a Kenwood KS-400R receiver on Craigslist in my area that I'm looking at getting. Does anyone know anything about this receiver? The seller is bundling it with a Sony turntable, a Technis tape deck, and some cheap-ish desktop speakers for $100.


----------



## moodyrn

Big congrats Meewoo!! The model 500, 600, 650, and ka907 are some of the rarest of the rarest of integrates. You very seldom see any of those come available. That should be one sweet sounding amp. Too bad kenwood didn't make many of those four integrates. That's a nice looking luxman too.


----------



## Silent One

I just took 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a hot phone call! The BIG Sansui is nearly completed - a couple of weeks out! Besides cleaning 'Baby Sinister' inside/out, a connector needed to be fabricated, as they long stopped making the part. And a few caps were replaced. They were okay but would need replacing in the not so distant future, so... _off with their heads! _




   
  The Tech found the remaining caps in _excellent_ condition. Recommended not replacing them at all, as it wouldn't be necessary and would cost a fortune to do so. I'm with him! That extra money could go towards a Reel-to-reel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Skylab got me interested in. 
   
  However...
   
  ...not all is Peaches & Creme, even though I went to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




a French market. 
   
   
  We got absolutely no cash
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to free my two vintage irons from the repair shop. The Pioneer SX-D7000 is the other receiver. But trust me, I'd be willing to sell it in order to clear the G-22000 and wouldn't even look back. I want my Champagne holding, French Custard serving hands ALL over that Sansui!


----------



## MattTCG

Wow. It seems that maintaining vintage gear can get a little spendy. I'm having a love affair with my Pioneer, but if it needed that much work, recaping ect I'm not sure that I could carry on with it. Maybe...it would be a tough call. The sound it tremendous. It would cost me $600-$700 to get something modern that sounds as good as the Pioneer.
   
  The custom cabinet/replacement is well underway. This is a joint project with my uncle. He is the master carpenter and me...mostly the gopher. We get the wood planed down to spec. It was tough to get the walnut to the proper thickness. The exhaust grill was used as a template and will mostly likely just be repainted and reused in the final cabinet rebuild. It will be a real site when finished. Pics to follow...


----------



## Meewoo

Thanks Skylab and moodyrn!!
   
  I am lucky to get them without breaking bank. They both are rare pieces, and I think 5L15 is rarer thank 500.
  I haven't given them a serous listening yet, no time. But just possessing those beautiful pieces gives me lot of utility!! I am addicted!!


----------



## Silent One

My Pioneer SX-D7000 doesn't need anything, so they're just cleaning it thoroughly inside/out. 'Baby Sinister' is the one that needed a bit more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 TLC.


----------



## sonic999

I have two 1970's Marantz receivers, the 2235b and the beefier 2270. The 2235b is earlier, not sure of the date, but the 2270 came out in1976.
  I think the 2235b could use some new filter caps, because it sounds a bit muddy.
  The 2270 is really more like 80 old school watts per channel. Very conservatively rated. It sounds smooth and warm,. Rich sounding.
  I have some M50s to use with it, but am looking for some better headphones that need a bit more power to drive them.


----------



## Silent One

I often grin at the conservatively rated power ratings on these amps. The Sansui G-22000 is spec'd @ 220 wpc/8 ohms. Someone over at Audiokarma or one of those other sites benched his amp @ 265 wpc/8 ohms.


----------



## Trav

sonic999 said:


> I have two 1970's Marantz receivers, the 2235b and the beefier 2270. The 2235b is earlier, not sure of the date, but the 2270 came out in1976.
> I think the 2235b could use some new filter caps, because it sounds a bit muddy.
> The 2270 is really more like 80 old school watts per channel. Very conservatively rated. It sounds smooth and warm,. Rich sounding.
> I have some M50s to use with it, but am looking for some better headphones that need a bit more power to drive them.


Sonic for what it's worth I have Fostex T50RP planars (modded) that I adore with my Sansui. They aren't expensive and with about $25 in mods scale much higher than the investment.


----------



## MattTCG

Question...
   
  Many of the store bought hp amps that I've had offer a mute relay function where it is not necessary to unplug hp's when you turn on the amplifier. Do I need to unplug hp's when using vintage receivers to avoid damage to the hp?
   
  thanks...


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Question...
> 
> Many of the store bought hp amps that I've had offer a mute relay function where it is not necessary to unplug hp's when you turn on the amplifier. Do I need to unplug hp's when using vintage receivers to avoid damage to the hp?
> 
> thanks...




From my experience with my three vintage integrated amps, no. There is no thwump like I used to get from the E-11/BK. First time i forgot to unplug my phones was the last time. Ouch.


----------



## semicoln

I found a local guy selling a few different vintage amps and receivers, the best looking of which is a Kenwood KA-3700. I would like to use one of these with headphones but I'm not sure of mismatching. My current HPs are low impedance (Grados and a DT770 80Ohm), what should I be looking for in an amp/receiver?


----------



## Oregonian

semicoln said:


> I found a local guy selling a few different vintage amps and receivers, the best looking of which is a Kenwood KA-3700. I would like to use one of these with headphones but I'm not sure of mismatching. My current HPs are low impedance (Grados and a DT770 80Ohm), what should I be looking for in an amp/receiver?




I honestly have no input about your impedance question but I have two KA-5700's that I use for all my headphones (see sig) and think it sounds great with each and every one. Buy it.


----------



## semicoln

oregonian said:


> I honestly have no input about your impedance question but I have two KA-5700's that I use for all my headphones (see sig) and think it sounds great with each and every one. Buy it.




The price is so good I'm going to buy it anyway, but this is a 3700 and you've got 5700s. Do you happen to know if/how the sound is different? I've seen both great and bad things said about the 3700 searching around.


----------



## Oregonian

semicoln said:


> The price is so good I'm going to buy it anyway, but this is a 3700 and you've got 5700s. Do you happen to know if/how the sound is different? I've seen both great and bad things said about the 3700 searching around.




All I've heard is the same sound signature follows, it's just lower power. What's the price?


----------



## Meewoo

Oregonians, buy this please! You won't regret!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-DENON-AMPLIFIER-PMA-770-/321147576045?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ac5e31eed
   
  I have one and want more if you guys didn't act. (I am aiming Luxman c-1010, otherwise I will buy it in heartbeat.)


----------



## Trav

Newest addition: Heathkit AR-1214


----------



## Silent One

Nicely laid out, Trav. Can't wait to resume my trek around the neighborhoods over the weekends this summer.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Great looking addition Trav!! So does anyone actually find these from yardsales and such? 
   
  I can see that it will do me no good to stop with only one vintage receiver. It seems mandatory to have at least a pair to get full membership to this club.


----------



## Trav

Matt I got this one EB from one who got it at an estate sale. Good price nonetheless.


----------



## MattTCG

Dang, I need to go to more estate sales!! We may have to consider having vintage receiver meet.


----------



## shipsupt

Wow, you guys with the "big boys" must really struggle with rack space.  I just received my Quadraspire Sunoko SV2T (http://www.quadraspire.co.uk/hifi-racks-hifi-stands/hifi-racks-hifi-stands-hifi-furniture.html#sunokoventt) equipment rack and had hoped to sneak my SX-950 into a lower shelf.  It appears that's not going happen, it's got to go up top!  Big bugger!


----------



## MattTCG

I've been looking at a sx-950 locally. But there's always hope that I could find the 1250.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Wow, you guys with the "big boys" must really struggle with rack space.  I just received my Quadraspire Sunoko SV2T (http://www.quadraspire.co.uk/hifi-racks-hifi-stands/hifi-racks-hifi-stands-hifi-furniture.html#sunokoventt) equipment rack and had hoped to sneak my SX-950 into a lower shelf.  It appears that's not going happen, it's got to go up top!  Big bugger!


 
  Nice Rack!
  You can swap out the lower shelf's columns for longer ones!


----------



## Oregonian

Well I finally added the turntable to one of my vintage rigs. It's a Yamaha P-520 from early 1983 and a pair of Polk Audio speakers, all being driven by my Pioneer SA-7500 MKII integrated. 

First album played........Steely Dan Aja, listened with my Denon D2000.......,,oh man, that drum solo at the end of Aja........it sounded soooooooo good. Have almost 100 albums I've had in storage for years to work my way through.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Well I finally added the turntable to one of my vintage rigs. It's a Yamaha P-520 from early 1983 and a pair of Polk Audio speakers, all being driven by my Pioneer SA-7500 MKII integrated.
> 
> First album played........Steely Dan Aja, listened with my Denon D2000.......,,oh man, that drum solo at the end of Aja........it sounded soooooooo good. Have almost 100 albums I've had in storage for years to work my way through.


 

 Aja is a very well done recording.  Plus has a who's who of Jazz musicians contributing.


----------



## Trav

speakerbox said:


> Aja is a very well done recording.  Plus has a who's who of Jazz musicians contributing.


Had it in LP, cassette, CD twice, have the DVD "Making of AJA" and will soon have the SHM SACD version. Yea I kinda like it...


----------



## shipsupt

It's actually the width and depth that are getting me into trouble, the height I had covered.  It surprised me!  If I had gone with one of the original racks that had smaller columns I think it would just have gone in, but I like the venting on the Sunoko. 
   
  For sure, there will be a place for vintage on the rack!
   
  Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Nice Rack!
> You can swap out the lower shelf's columns for longer ones!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Wow, you guys with the "big boys" must really struggle with rack space.  I just received my Quadraspire Sunoko SV2T (http://www.quadraspire.co.uk/hifi-racks-hifi-stands/hifi-racks-hifi-stands-hifi-furniture.html#sunokoventt) equipment rack and had hoped to sneak my SX-950 into a lower shelf.  It appears that's not going happen, it's got to go up top!  Big bugger!


 
   
  Very nice! If I may ask, what did it cost? Also, it is exciting to see you organize those cats across the pond for a meet.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, the SX-1980 pretty much has to be on TOP of any normal rack:


----------



## Silent One

Looking at the right wall's texture, that really is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 a Man Cave!


----------



## Skylab

That it is! My house is a 130 year old Victorian with a stone foundation. When I finished the basement, I didn't drywall over the stone, I kinda like it . I wouldn't have painted it either, except it had already been painted, so I had no choice there really but to just repaint. Still, I like the look of the actual stone.


----------



## Silent One

I'm with you on the stone... absolutely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 love it! Which R2R deck returns you higher fidelity, the Pioneer of Teac?


----------



## Skylab

When playing 7.5 ips reels, the Pioneer sounds a little better. The TEAC though will play 15 ips reels, and while I only have two of these, they are incredible sounding - the best sound of any source, period.


----------



## umnik

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Oregonians, buy this please! You won't regret!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Oops.
  Meewoo, you just made me a hundred purer! Could not resist.
  I was looking for low distortion amp for my computer audio setup and unexpectedly saw your post. Googled about it and wow! The guy even accepted less.
  Yahoo!


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, the SX-1980 pretty much has to be on TOP of any normal rack:


 
   
  I wonder how much weight that rack is holding... and how noticeably its feet would dent a wood floor...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> When playing 7.5 ips reels, the Pioneer sounds a little better. The TEAC though will play 15 ips reels, and while I only have two of these, they are incredible sounding - the best sound of any source, period.


 
   
  Not to get _all _up in your lemonade - those ice cubes do look 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 inviting - but whatcha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




got on them reels (15 ips)?! Pre-recorded or your own recordings from the rig?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, the SX-1980 pretty much has to be on TOP of any normal rack:


 
   
  Niiiiiiice..


----------



## MattTCG

Gorgeous looking gear Skylab!! +1 on the drooling. 
   
  I have finished with the wood cabinet replacement for my sx-650. Another hour of sanding and it be ready for wood wax. I think that I may have the only sx-650 out there with a real hardwood cabinet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pics to follow after completion.


----------



## Silent One

Real wood... ... ...cabinet?


----------



## MattTCG

Mind you this is unfinished...be nice.


----------



## Silent One

Looks good from here! I'd put on some selected tracks in the background, grab the wax and lovingly apply my way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




through the evening...


----------



## Skylab

That does look nice, Matt! Did the second set of bulbs work for you?

SO, my 15 ips reels are two: a second gen safety master of John Coltrane's Lush Life, scored remarkably cheap on eBay, and a not quite as cheap International Phonograph reel of a 1963 jazz record by Clare Fisher. Both are astonishingly good sounding.

Thanks for the nice comments on the basement rig, folks. The rack is a Salamander Designs, and it's rated to handle more weight than is on it. But the floor down here IS concrete


----------



## MattTCG

I haven't worked out the bulbs yet. Spending all my free time sanding on this cabinet. The sanding will ultimately determine how nice the finished product is.


----------



## Silent One

"Lush Life"...... @ 15 ips??? Man, that's some 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




good livin' goin' on in _Sweet Home Chicago._


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I haven't worked out the bulbs yet. Spending all my free time sanding on this cabinet. The sanding will ultimately determine how nice the finished product is.


 
   
  Unless, you're working in silence, song selection will be key.


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> "Lush Life"...... @ 15 ips??? Man, that's some
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ain't no doubt about that


----------



## moodyrn

Great looking cabinet Matt! You probably will be the only one with a real wood sx650 cabinet. Can't wait to see the final result.

Skylab I don't care how many times you post pics of that rig, it's always like seeing it for the first time. It look equally great everytime I see it. Very impressive. It would be hard for me to get any work done if I had that rig. And don't even mention the "big rig".


----------



## Silent One

I can't seem to get enough of it either, moodyrn. It seems since I've gotten into vacuum tube amps and silver-faced vintage amps, that I now have to deal with the fetishly touching of knobs, switches and tubes by those entering the listening room. _Often._ Even if company or strangers mean well, where's those manners 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Prior to this, nobody wanted to touch my mid-fi HT in a box.


----------



## Skylab

It is something of a miracle I manage to do anything but listen to music. But I do quite a bit of music listening that's for sure! 

It's silly, the SX-1980 has the ability to connect three pairs of speakers, and switch easily between them, and yet somehow I have 4 pairs down there


----------



## MattTCG

Chillaxin' with some Diana Krall (dvd-a) >Pioneer Elite dv-45>sx-650>he-4. Does it get any better than this? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (that's a rhetorical question btw)


----------



## moodyrn

You just gave me a wonderful idea. Diana here I come!


----------



## Silent One

I'm in the mood
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





for the G-22000 and 'Weather Report.' Though,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 this could take a while...


----------



## MattTCG

I've heard of Weather Report but haven't listened to any of their stuff. Gonna give them a listen next. Heavy Weather looks promising.


----------



## AudioDoctor

Wow, this is a long thread.  I am listening to my Vintage Marantz 2230 while I type this with a pair of Grado RS1i headphones and it sounds deliciously wonderful.


----------



## Silent One

That and "Night Passage," "Sweetnighter" and so on. On vintage iron? Yum-o! Could always go "Compilation" and get a taste...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





audiodoctor said:


> Wow, this is a long thread.  I am listening to my Vintage Marantz 2230 while I type this with a pair of Grado RS1i headphones and it sounds deliciously wonderful.


 
   
  Long 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We only hit 500 pages of audio goodness just recently...


----------



## AudioDoctor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Long
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I don't think I have ever been on another forum that gets 500 page threads in any amount of time.
   
  Here is a pic of my 2230 for the thread.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm in the mood
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What a fine idea!
   
  But which one shall I spin?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> What a fine idea!
> 
> But which one shall I spin?


 
   





 Nice, palmfish. Your post illuminates the brilliance of this thread - save money on gear, buy more music!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





audiodoctor said:


> I don't think I have ever been on another forum that gets 500 page threads in any amount of time.
> 
> Here is a pic of my 2230 for the thread.


 
   
  The pix of your 2230 is now home @ the CAVIRO thread where it belongs... welcome!


----------



## AudioDoctor

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The pix of your 2230 is now home @ the CAVIRO thread where it belongs... welcome!


 
  Nevermind, I got it.
   
  Thank you.


----------



## DefQon

May possibly be a new owner of one these bad boys in a few days, will let you guys know if i do win :


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





defqon said:


> May possibly be a new owner of one these bad boys in a few days, will let you guys know if i do win :


 
   
  I don't recoginize that. What is it? It looks massive!


----------



## DefQon

Only exclusive to the Japanese market. It is the Victor (or JVC) AX1000 integrated amplifier. It is I believe a quality 70's amplifier.


----------



## LugBug1

Matt your cabinet looks really professional, its gonna be a winner!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Only exclusive to the Japanese market. It is the Victor (or JVC) AX1000 integrated amplifier. It is I believe a quality 70's amplifier.


 

 Looks mid-80's to me.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Only exclusive to the Japanese market. It is the Victor (or JVC) AX1000 integrated amplifier. It is I believe a quality 70's amplifier.


 
   
  K-Nisi's site says it was introduced in 1984. (Source / Google Translated)


----------



## mhamel

That AX1000 looks very similar to the American JVC AX-900B, which was definitely mid-80s.   There's also a commercial rack-mountable version called the AX-901 - there's one on eBay at the moment.  I'd be curious if that's a dressed-up version of the same product for the Japanese market, or if it's actually different internally.
   
  The AX-900B is 120w x 2, has a phono section.   I saved up and bought one of these new when I was in my early teens, it's hard to comment on how it sounded so long ago, but I do remember it being prone to heating up and going into protection when played loud for lengths of time.   No idea if that was my particular amp/setup or common to the model.   I was driving a Cerwin Vega 12" passive sub (Anyone remember this very crappy sub from the DAK catalog?) that crossed over to a pair of Design Acoustics PS10 speakers.
   
      -Mike


----------



## LugBug1

Just pulled the trigger on a Marantz 2216b and quite a bargain I think. How exciting! I'll post pics next week when received.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> That AX1000 looks very similar to the American JVC AX-900B, which was definitely mid-80s.   There's also a commercial rack-mountable version called the AX-901 - there's one on eBay at the moment.  I'd be curious if that's a dressed-up version of the same product for the Japanese market, or if it's actually different internally.
> 
> The AX-900B is 120w x 2, has a phono section.   I saved up and bought one of these new when I was in my early teens, it's hard to comment on how it sounded so long ago, but I do remember it being prone to heating up and going into protection when played loud for lengths of time.   No idea if that was my particular amp/setup or common to the model.   I was driving a Cerwin Vega 12" passive sub (Anyone remember this very crappy sub from the DAK catalog?) that crossed over to a pair of Design Acoustics PS10 speakers.
> 
> -Mike


 
  Your input just halts my eager to jump on that AX-901 after saw that AX-1000 beauty!!
  Man JVC A-X10 is such a monster!!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





defqon said:


> May possibly be a new owner of one these bad boys in a few days, will let you guys know if i do win :


 
   
  The square buttons give away the '80s aesthetic, but that's still a beautiful piece of gear! Best of luck


----------



## Skylab

Mercifully, however, by the 1980's, better gear (like that) was finally using 5-way binding posts for speaker connectors, and not xt$2(6Bsh!$@!? spring clips. The fact that the mighty SX 1980 uses spring clips with far too small a hole for decent wire really agitates me.


----------



## palmfish

I like the color of the faceplate. Reminds me of the Kyocera gear from that era.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mercifully, however, by the 1980's, better gear (like that) was finally using 5-way binding posts for speaker connectors, and not xt$2(6Bsh!$@!? spring clips. The fact that the mighty SX 1980 uses spring clips with far too small a hole for decent wire really agitates me.


 
   
  The ONLY thing I don't like about my SX-D7000.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mercifully, however, by the 1980's, better gear (like that) was finally using 5-way binding posts for speaker connectors, and not xt$2(6Bsh!$@!? spring clips. The fact that the mighty SX 1980 uses spring clips with far too small a hole for decent wire really agitates me.


 
   
  Hah, that's the only complaint I have with my vintage receivers and integrateds... the only things worse are the locking twist-posts that some early-80s receivers used; not only were the openings small, but it could be hard to tell whether you'd actually made a connection.
   
  The old-fashioned screw bindings for speaker wire on really old gear weren't all that much better, though; The screws tended to be too short, and were packed too close together to hold wires securely without risking shorts (unless you used solid core wire).
   
  The companies don't have good excuses for doing this. 5-way posts around by then, too; My early-seventies Heathkit AR-1500 receiver uses them! They're exactly like modern posts, albeit not quite as large in diameter and not gold-plated.


----------



## Skylab

Yup, it's the only thing that bugs me about the SX-1980. And I will live with that for all the other greatness, like tone controls that are actually usable, phono cartridge variable loading options, multiple speaker outputs, etc etc...and of course overall great sound. But still...

If there had been room without having to cut the chassis I probably would have had at least the A speakers converted to 5-way posts.


----------



## MattTCG

Guys, can I get some opinions on this. There is a Yamaha cr1000 in very good condition with a few lights out being the only flaw. Is it worth $200 local pickup?  
   
  thanks...


----------



## Silent One

The posts made it difficult for me to get good contact with the HE-6.


----------



## Skylab

I've never heard (or even seen) a CR-1000, but that's a nice receiver that was quite pricey in its day. If it looks good and is working perfectly, $200 is a reasonable price for sure.


----------



## MattTCG

Give me a few minutes and I'll post pics.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mercifully, however, by the 1980's, better gear (like that) was finally using 5-way binding posts for speaker connectors, and not xt$2(6Bsh!$@!? spring clips. The fact that the mighty SX 1980 uses spring clips with far too small a hole for decent wire really agitates me.


 
  Think about how much money we save using lamp cord instead of expensive cables! 
  Maybe it's all part of the vintage "bargain".


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> K-Nisi's site says it was introduced in 1984. (Source / Google Translated)


 
  Thanks for that, yeah I only looked at one foreign source and it said late 1970's with a question mark next to it. The release year for them was from 1983 to 85. There is no American substitute for it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Guys, can I get some opinions on this. There is a Yamaha cr1000 in very good condition with a few lights out being the only flaw. Is it worth $200 local pickup?
> 
> thanks...


 
   
  The price is right there, considering alternative iron. I understand a few lights are out on the amp. But 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you need to take a stick and poke it... then listen to it.


----------



## AudioDoctor

So, here is a question regarding the headphone output on my 2230.  Is it strong enough to adequately drive difficult to drive headphones?


----------



## Argybargy

audiodoctor said:


> So, here is a question regarding the headphone output on my 2230.  Is it strong enough to adequately drive difficult to drive headphones?



Zero problems driving lcd2.2, he500, fostex t50rp, hd650... Not sure if you would classify these as difficult to drive.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





audiodoctor said:


> So, here is a question regarding the headphone output on my 2230.  Is it strong enough to adequately drive difficult to drive headphones?


 
   
  Here's a question for the group:
   
  Instead of using a speaker tap cable to drive headphones directly from the speaker outputs (I do this on a couple of receivers), could one remove/short the drop resistors from the headphone jack and get full power to the jack?  Seems this would be equivalent to using a speaker tap cable.
   
_*Of couse, you'd have to be VERY careful when plugging in easier to drive/more sensitive cans.  *_
   
  Or a less drastic approach of just replacing the current resistors with a lower value (or soldering in a lower value in parallel) to get more power out.  In looking at the service manuals from the various receivers I own, seems they use anywhere from 220 ohms to 680 ohms as drop resistors.  Replacing those with 50 or 100 ohm equivalent should solve the problem of driving difficult headphones directly from the jack, wouldn't it?


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





audiodoctor said:


> So, here is a question regarding the headphone output on my 2230.  Is it strong enough to adequately drive difficult to drive headphones?


 
   
   

   
  Yes.
   
  Next question?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Skylab

captouch said:


> Here's a question for the group:
> 
> Instead of using a speaker tap cable to drive headphones directly from the speaker outputs (I do this on a couple of receivers), could one remove/short the drop resistors from the headphone jack and get full power to the jack?  Seems this would be equivalent to using a speaker tap cable.
> 
> ...




Yes...BUT: its also possible that this would make the headphone out unacceptably noisy for very sensitive headphones. So if you ONLY wanted to use our vintage amp / receiver with Audeze or HiFiMan cans, might be a good idea. But if you also want to use it with Denon, AT, or the like, it might be a problem. Depends on how quiet your amp is. You will also get less play on the volume control with those more efficient cans.


----------



## captouch

skylab said:


> Yes...BUT: its also possible that this would make the headphone out unacceptably noisy for very sensitive headphones. So if you ONLY wanted to use our vintage amp / receiver with Audeze or HiFiMan cans, might be a good idea. But if you also want to use it with Denon, AT, or the like, it might be a problem. Depends on how quiet your amp is. You will also get less play on the volume control with those more efficient cans.




Cool, thanks Skylab. Sounds like maximum versatility by leaving it as is or just reducing the R values just a bit. I already have some speaker tap cables to XLR for my Hifimans and it's not a lot of trouble to keep using them.

Thanks.


----------



## Oregonian

Here we go with vinyl rig...............Yamaha P-520 fed into Pioneer SA-7500 MKII feeding the Polk Audio bookshelfs and/or the Wharfedales.  That pressing of Rush 2112 is about 24 years old from my memory...............and had been played once when I bought it and transferred it to cassette tape.


----------



## Silent One

Looking good in the Northwest!


----------



## moodyrn

parbaked said:


> Think about how much money we save using lamp cord instead of expensive cables!
> Maybe it's all part of the vintage "bargain".




Lol, I cut off that lowly lamp cord on my ka907 and now have a 7awg pangea ac9 on it. Lets just say I'm really happy with the results. Some of the hardest hitting bass I've heard from a speaker amp. These lamp cords are really limiting what some of these higher powered monsters can do although they still sound killer as is.


----------



## MattTCG

I know that this is a vintage receiver thread, so I hope that this is not an inappropriate question. I heard a pair of Grundig vintage speakers several weeks ago and was really impressed. I wonder what you guys thought of these?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-GRUNDIG-Speakers-Mid-Century-WORKING-Germany-1400022-/161049497392


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Think about how much money we save using lamp cord instead of expensive cables!


 
   
  The funny thing is you can do better than hardware store zipwire, and cheaper, too... This is not intended to be a derail about cables, but you can get Canare microphone cable for a lower price per foot than 24 AWG lamp cord, and it's actually designed for audio. So it's still worth shopping around, even if you're a cable skeptic.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol, I cut off that lowly lamp cord on my ka907 and now have a 7awg pangea ac9 on it. Lets just say I'm really happy with the results. Some of the hardest hitting bass I've heard from a speaker amp. These lamp cords are really limiting what some of these higher powered monsters can do although they still sound killer as is.


 
   






 I still got time! What should I ask the tech to throw on my Sansui? And at what point of origin?


----------



## moodyrn

Well, I actually got out my dremel and cut a hole to fit a valab pure copper, gold plated iec socket. I also replaced the internal wiring going into the socket with 12awg wiring. So now I can replace cords at will.
   
  The chassis on my fisher don't have enough room for an iec connector because of how narrow the back is. So I used a panel mount iec connector on it(with very good results). I'm on the fence on whether adding an iec socket to my sansui. It looks so mint I might just keep it all original. But on the other hand, all of the lamps have been replaced with leds, and it's been recapped and restored(many resistors and transistors), so it's not exactly all original either.
   
  So I'm kinda leaning towards doing the same thing with it. I may just try a panel mount first to see if the improvement will be as drastic as it was with the kenwood before I start butchering the back of the chassis.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I still got time! What should I ask the tech to throw on my Sansui? And at what point of origin?


 
  I would use the thickest Beldin cable that fits through the existing hole so your tech just needs to rewire and not cut up the back.
  The add your plug of choice....


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Well, I actually got out my dremel and cut a hole to fit a valab pure copper, gold plated iec socket. I also replaced the internal wiring going into the socket with 12awg wiring. So now I can replace cords at will.
> 
> The chassis on my fisher don't have enough room for an iec connector because of how narrow the back is. So I used a panel mount iec connector on it(with very good results). I'm on the fence on whether adding an iec socket to my sansui. It looks so mint I might just keep it all original. But on the other hand, all of the lamps have been replaced with leds, and it's been recapped and restored(many resistors and transistors), so it's not exactly all original either.
> 
> So I'm kinda leaning towards doing the same thing with it. I may just try a panel mount first to see if the improvement will be as drastic as it was with the kenwood before I start butchering the back of the chassis.


 
   
  Ooh, I have not thought about the originality angle... a concern. Or maybe not, we ain't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




selling it!  I should ask the tech what would he do, after I ask about new internal wiring and AC plug. 
   
  It is rumored only 2,000 G-33000 units were made. Not many with my model, either. Out of fascination, I'm going to try and learn actual production numbers for the two this week...


----------



## Skylab

I'm actually using pretty nice Audioquest cable between my 1980 and DSS-9 speakers...that's because I terminated it with gold "pins "...works great with those stupid push-terminals.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I would use the thickest Beldin cable that fits through the existing hole so your tech just needs to rewire and not cut up the back.
> The add your plug of choice....


 
   
  You know the hardest part about making this request? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't even have the funds to get it out the shop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 right now.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Ooh, I have not thought about the originality angle... a concern. Or maybe not, we ain't
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was concerned about that as well, but it didn't hurt the resale value of a marantz 2330B I sold after getting the sansui. The buyer contacted me after the sale and said one of the selling points for him was the fact that it did have an iec connector and he could use his high end power cords. 
   
  So I'm sure there are many who want their vintage gear all original, but there are also many aftermarket cable and cord fans as well who would appreciate the ability to squeeze every last drop of performance out of them. My 2330B went for 800.00 excluding shipping which is quiet a bit more than they normally go for. So it's possible if in the unlikely event you sell it, it could be beneficial. Especially if done by a professional which obviously neither of mine were not lol.


----------



## Silent One

Truth be told, I could see someone being picky about it. Walking away. And perusing forums back at the house only to realize two things: it's rare... and they threw away 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




my phone number.


----------



## moodyrn

Here's a pic of what the iec socket looked like on the marantz before I sold it. Now that I look at it, it does look a tad bit crooked I think.


----------



## Silent One

Well... all things considered... like its back up against the wall... I'd buy it!


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Here's a pic of what the iec socket looked like on the marantz before I sold it. Now that I look at it, it does look a tad bit crooked I think.



Sorry but what is an IEC socket and what is the relevance? Us vintage noobs like to learn.

TIA


----------



## grokit

Google it man


----------



## AudioDoctor

Considering cables I am pretty much a skeptic that these hyper expensive cables make much of a difference.  I think a quality cable can do the job.  I think the cables from Blue Jeans Cables are about the limit of what I would pay for.


----------



## moodyrn

Well it's not about using hyper expensive cables. It's about getting rid of 35-40 year old very thin lamp cords which for sure has experienced some form of degrading over the last 40 years or so.


----------



## Oregonian

grokit said:


> Google it man




Thanks. Never thought of that. Funny tho, it didn't give me the answer to the relevance part of the question, especially as it relates to vintage. :rolleyes:


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you serious?
   

   
  If you can't tell from this click on the images link. If you can't tell from that...


----------



## moodyrn

oregonian said:


> Thanks. Never thought of that. Funny tho, it didn't give me the answer to the relevance part of the question, especially as it relates to vintage.


   

  Ok, I'll answer that. The way it relates to vintage is the same way recapping does. It relates to vintage because you have a 40 year old lamp cord. Just like recapping, the copper wire can degrade and tarnish over time just like caps can either go bad or out of spec. The problem is, the lamp cord is connected internally. So replacing it with an iec connector gives you the ability to replace cords at will. 
   
  And like recapping, many don't care as long as the amp works just like many don't care about a solution to replace the 35-40 year old lamp cord. But I can definitely say upon stripping some of wire on my marantz, the wire was a dingy brown color. That's going beyond the green copper initially turns when it begins to tarnish. The wire from  my kenwood wasn't nearly as bad, but it's not as old as the marantz either. The wire from my almost 50 year old fisher? Let just say it looked much worse than the marantz did.
   
   
  So any improvements that can be made to vintage amps are always relevant imo.


----------



## grokit

It may be best to post a picture of a modern IEC socket with the caption, "old amps don't have these".


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, funny.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Ok, I'll answer that. The way it relates to vintage is the same way recapping does. It relates to vintage because you have a 40 year old lamp cord. Just like recapping, the copper wire can degrade and tarnish over time just like caps can either go bad or out of spec. The problem is, the lamp cord is connected internally. So replacing it with an iec connector gives you the ability to replace cords at will.
> 
> 
> And like recapping, many don't care as long as the amp works just like many don't care about a solution to replace the 35-40 year old lamp cord. But I can definitely say upon stripping some of wire on my marantz, the wire was a dingy brown color. That's going beyond the green copper initially turns when it begins to tarnish. The wire from  my kenwood wasn't nearly as bad, but it's not as old as the marantz either. The wire from my almost 50 year old fisher? Let just say it looked much worse than the marantz did.
> ...




Thank you very much for showing patience and explaining it perfectly. It makes sense now as to the why as well. Had no idea the power cord would/could degrade. 

Appreciate the response. Very much.


----------



## grokit

I was just having a little fun Oregonian, hopefully you didn't take offense.
   
  That Pioneer seller on Craig's list has dropped his price to $300 for the integrated/tuner stack I posted recently. I don't need it and can't afford it, I really don't even have room for it and I'm still thinking that I have to have it...


----------



## moodyrn

Like many upgrades, most won't even care. But it might be of importance to some. I'm glad you have a better understanding of the whole concept. But like I said earlier, the discussion isn't about expensive power cords or a cable debate. But a means of replacing something very old with a good chance of it being at the very least tarnished.


Maybe the next discussion will be about getting rid of those very crappy spring clips.


----------



## Silent One

The horror... spring clips!


----------



## DefQon

I didn't win the auction on the AX-1000 
   
  Went out of my budget.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Thank you very much for showing patience and explaining it perfectly. It makes sense now as to the why as well. Had no idea the power cord would/could degrade.
> 
> Appreciate the response. Very much.


 
   
  I used to laugh at people who said power cords make a difference - that is until upgrading the PCs on my Jeff Rowland amps drastically improved the sound of my main rig.  So much so that my wife asked me what I did that made it sound so good.  I just did an IEC inlet mod to a Sherwood S-7300.  Big improvement there also.


----------



## DefQon

Power cables don't make a difference unless the cable is too old or broken.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Power cables don't make a difference unless the cable is too old or broken.


 

 That has not been my experience - but I was once in your camp on this.


----------



## ardgedee

Less off-topic debate and more vintage receiver photos, please.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Less off-topic debate and more vintage receiver photos, please.


 
   
  Ok, I will compromise with a picture of the rear of my Sherwood S-7300 with an IEC connector.


----------



## DefQon

speakerbox said:


> That has not been my experience - but I was once in your camp on this.




 How can power cables provide a cleaner power feed when the mains AC supply is dirty? A cable acts as a signal transporter from point A to B whatever A is B will be the same. Now if you said you have a power conditioner/power plant connected along with a special power cable then things are different. As I said perceived sound differences could be possible due to a connection/fault with the cable itself degrading power supply. I don't like derailing threads but I simply cannot agree with such a statement no matter how much you believe a difference there is to be.


----------



## ardgedee

Cable arguments get threads locked and cleaned up. If it has to be discussed, it's better to do it in one of the topical forums, or by private message.
   
  Everybody trying to get their last words in is the same thing as continuing the argument.


----------



## Pudu

No no no. 

This is one of the most amiable, good-natured threads on head-fi. No cable talk in here pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.


----------



## shipsupt

Back on topic... So I'm currently spending 3 years in the UK and some talk about units that were unique to different regions got me thinking... is there anything vintage I should be keeping my eye open for over here, or possibly seeking out? 
   
  I've got a few tubes I'm chasing, I found a really cool turntable, what about amps? 

 I realize this is sort of tossing a pretty wide net, but a few suggestions would give me some leads to track.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I didn't win the auction on the AX-1000
> 
> Went out of my budget.


 
   
  Too bad!
  We lost the chance to see nude of beauty, I mean innards.
   
  From internet, the innards of A-X900 Isn't impressive. No torfa, small heatsink. There may have huge difference between A-X900 and A-X1000, same as Pioneer A-80 and A-90.
   
  A-80 innards (from internet)

   
  A-90 innards (from internet)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Back on topic... So I'm currently spending 3 years in the UK and some talk about units that were unique to different regions got me thinking... is there anything vintage I should be keeping my eye open for over here, or possibly seeking out?
> 
> I've got a few tubes I'm chasing, I found a really cool turntable, what about amps?
> 
> I realize this is sort of tossing a pretty wide net, but a few suggestions would give me some leads to track.


 
   
  Great question, actually. Because along with other consumer products (like cars), companies often make only certain models available in regional markets. Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 we know you know, but... hopefully this thread can shed light on those Electronics Company exports for the U.K. and local wares.


----------



## tribestros

The next person to reference cables on my favorite thread gets pistol whipped.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think you just referenced them...


----------



## Skylab

shipsupt said:


> Back on topic... So I'm currently spending 3 years in the UK and some talk about units that were unique to different regions got me thinking... is there anything vintage I should be keeping my eye open for over here, or possibly seeking out?
> 
> I've got a few tubes I'm chasing, I found a really cool turntable, what about amps?
> 
> ...




YES - look for some nice vintage B&W speakers. DM-1200, DM-1400, and DM-16 come immediately to mind, but the are others too. These seem to sell for much less in the UK than they do over here, likely because they sold far more per capita over there. I have been blown away at how good the DM-16's are.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> Back on topic... So I'm currently spending 3 years in the UK and some talk about units that were unique to different regions got me thinking... is there anything vintage I should be keeping my eye open for over here, or possibly seeking out?
> 
> I've got a few tubes I'm chasing, I found a really cool turntable, what about amps?
> 
> I realize this is sort of tossing a pretty wide net, but a few suggestions would give me some leads to track.


 
  You may want to look at the early A&R Cambridge stuff, which later turned into Arcam. They are always popping up on ebay.  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-R-Cambridge-a60-vintage-amp-tuner-/261234478910?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Tuners&hash=item3cd2c9cf3e
   
  Also, there is some really cool vintage Technics stuff available on ebay at the mo. The SU range is very good in my experience (and my Dads  From the late 70's beasts to the more sleek early 80's models.


----------



## grokit

I don't know how the cable thing started, I thought we were talking about upgrading the vintage AC connection point to something more modern and efficient.
   
  Hope that fixed it for y'all


----------



## catcherfly

Hi all,
   
 A Marantz Receiver, model 26 is for sale near me for $220.  
Is this a good price?
I am also wondering if 1.) the headphone jack/amp will power (well) a pair of Mad Dogs, and 2.) Can I hook up spade connector speaker cables?
   
Thanks!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I don't know how the cable thing started, I thought we were talking about upgrading the vintage AC connection point to something more modern and efficient.
> 
> Hope that fixed it for y'all


 
   
  Honestly, I thought the first foray into the kitchen was fine. Like any good chef will do, _"This is what I used to solve the problem and here's how."_ Then someone observed _"That (meat, fish, pork, poultry, fruit, vegetable, herb or spice) doesn't make a difference!"_
   
  And then...




   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!









 *FOOD FIGHT*


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





catcherfly said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A Marantz Receiver, model 26 is for sale near me for $220.
> Is this a good price?
> ...


 
   
  I haven't tried that model, but the MD love the power from the vintage amps. I'd say that it would be a good match. 
   
  So take your hp's, a source and get over there and try it out!!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





catcherfly said:


> Hi all,
> 
> A Marantz Receiver, model 26 is for sale near me for $220.
> Is this a good price?
> ...


 
   
  I have no experience with earlier Marantz model.
  All I know is that some people really dig first generation transistor stuff, but not me.
  It can't take spade connector, you have to buy some pin type connectors.


----------



## GoldfishX

Earlier in this mammoth thread, I posted about issues I was having with my Kenwood KR-9400 and its sound quality. I am happy to report that after pressing in the "AF Muting" button (I believe it is similar to the -20db on other vintage receivers), it really widened up the soundstage for my headphones. Before, the mids were so sharp and forward, it hurt to turn it up. Now it is clear, spacious and very 3D. The mids are not recessed now, but more neutral, so I am getting more highs/lows than I was before. I am using it to drive my HD800 and Audio Technica AD2000x straight from my Marantz SACD8004 (it has a built-in DAC as well) and it is absolutely beautiful on both. No goofy "pairing" issues. I put in an electronic album and I could almost "see" the sounds that are normally buried in the mix.
   
  Score one for the vintage scene. This thing blows away every dedicated headphone amplifier I've heard so far (mostly in the $1000-$1500 range).
   
  So just a question...if I were to pick up a second vintage receiver mostly as a headphone amp, what would compliment the KR-9400? I want to say it is slightly warm and I have read a lot of Pioneers are brighter or neutral.


----------



## LugBug1

Good stuff goldfish 
   
  My Pioneer SX550 receiver compliments my HD800's very well. It's well balanced without any hardness, really quite 'analogue' sounding (for look of a better word). Warm but without any treble roll off...Big deep bass. It's the best I've heard my Senn's with. 
   
  Haven't heard the Kenwood so can't comment if it will compliment it. But why not experiment with a few vintage receivers/amps? Its great fun and you will spend a lot less then buying any worthwhile headphone amplifier. Build a stack Skylab styley! (although that will cost a bit more


----------



## GoldfishX

I'm trying not to go nuts due to limited space, I've passed on a couple deals over the past year for some cool gear. And my dad tells me Pioneer was the **** to own back in the day. But that -20db switch on the Kenwood made a world of difference, so now I want to see if the results are similar with some other stuff.
   
  For the HD800 and the Kenwood, I did have to kill a bit of the treble (turned down two steps from the midpoint). I almost forgot about that.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Earlier in this mammoth thread, I posted about issues I was having with my Kenwood KR-9400 and its sound quality. I am happy to report that after pressing in the "AF Muting" button (I believe it is similar to the -20db on other vintage receivers), it really widened up the soundstage for my headphones. Before, the mids were so sharp and forward, it hurt to turn it up. Now it is clear, spacious and very 3D. The mids are not recessed now, but more neutral, so I am getting more highs/lows than I was before. I am using it to drive my HD800 and Audio Technica AD2000x straight from my Marantz SACD8004 (it has a built-in DAC as well) and it is absolutely beautiful on both. No goofy "pairing" issues. I put in an electronic album and I could almost "see" the sounds that are normally buried in the mix.
> 
> Score one for the vintage scene. This thing blows away every dedicated headphone amplifier I've heard so far (mostly in the $1000-$1500 range).
> 
> So just a question...if I were to pick up a second vintage receiver mostly as a headphone amp, what would compliment the KR-9400? I want to say it is slightly warm and I have read a lot of Pioneers are brighter or neutral.


 

 You might want to consider skipping the receiver part and just go with an integrated amp (unless you listen to FM of course). 
   
  I have two KA-5700 Kenwood integrateds and a Pioneer SA-7500 MKII integrated.  Both are very good sounding, considerably more powerful than most "headphone specific" amps and quite attractive.  Pricing seems to be better on integrated from my small view of the vintage world.


----------



## LugBug1

What? skip receivers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  what would you rather have sitting next to you
   
  this
   

   
   
  Or this..


----------



## GoldfishX

lol, well let me ask this...is the headphone output any better on an integrated amp (or even a preamp with a headphone output) than Vs a receiver? I know I have read that certain McIntosh preamps have dedicated headphone amps in them (the C28 and C32).
   
  My impression is that vintage receivers provide plenty of power for headphones, even the lower rated WPC versions.
   
  Also, both are sexy in their own way. One's a hot barbie, one's a strong, athletic looker.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> What? skip receivers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 For ME it's a simple answer.  I have not listened to FM in about 5 years.  At all.  Hence a receiver is useless to me.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> lol, well let me ask this...is the headphone output any better on an integrated amp (or even a preamp with a headphone output) than Vs a receiver? I know I have read that certain McIntosh preamps have dedicated headphone amps in them (the C28 and C32).
> 
> My impression is that vintage receivers provide plenty of power for headphones, even the lower rated WPC versions.
> 
> Also, both are sexy in their own way. One's a hot barbie, one's a strong, athletic looker.


 
  I'm probably not the best to answer this but I will .. In my experience it won't be any better on either. Its all down the actual component in question. Besides, both integrated and receivers aren't 'headphone amps' and contain probably 80% of electrics that you don't need when only using hp's.
   
  The quality of the headphone outputs from this era is becoming more apparent recently because peeps are trying to get away from opamps and having to spend a lot of cash on quality class A hp amps. Older amps are 'pre opamp' and therefore were driven from the main transformer with only resistors in the path. However, this imo will only be good for certain headphones. Headphones that require lots of power (like most modern high end hp's) as the ouputs are high impedance. Dedicated hp amps have generally been designed with much lower impedance to feed lots of current to 32 ohm upwards. Not saying you won't get good results using low impedance hp's with an old amp, just on paper..   
   
  Also, I agree that both those amps look marvelous and I'd happily have either sitting next to me!
   
(please feel free to tell me to - 'shut the **** up, you bought your first receiver a month ago and now you're acting like you're Doctor ****ing Vintage!' haha)


----------



## Silent One

Y-e-a-h... ........ ............. but... the aesthetics on the bottom receiver... man!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Yep. It does impress visually. Hard not to like it.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'm probably not the best to answer this but I will .. In my experience it won't be any better on either. Its all down the actual component in question. Besides, both integrated and receivers aren't 'headphone amps' and contain probably 80% of electrics that you don't need when only using hp's.
> 
> The quality of the headphone outputs from this era is becoming more apparent recently because peeps are trying to get away from opamps and having to spend a lot of cash on quality class A hp amps. Older amps are 'pre opamp' and therefore were driven from the main transformer with only resistors in the path. However, this imo will only be good for certain headphones. Headphones that require lots of power (like most modern high end hp's) as the ouputs are high impedance. Dedicated hp amps have generally been designed with much lower impedance to feed lots of current to 32 ohm upwards. Not saying you won't get good results using low impedance hp's with an old amp, just on paper..
> 
> ...


 

 No way man, you can speak freely!  I just love the sound out of a vintage - the bass is amazing, quality overall amazing, and yeah, these are "overkill" for headphone duty but so what?  For $80 I got an amp that blows my Magni away in so many ways!  Not to mention sexy as hell! 
   
  To the impedance question - I'm running a variety of headphones using the headphone out of the three vintage amps I have, most are "easy to drive" and they all sound amazing.  So not sure if the comment about them helping only low impedance headphones is valid.  Now, you are completely correct about the 80% comment regarding the electrics and I guess by extension power consumption but I'm using two of these for speakers as well, and one for turntable duty so I'm kind of justifying the "need" for them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Yes, I'm a vintage fanboy and damn happy to be one.  I look at them every day and thank Skylab for this subset addition to this headphone hobby.  Strike that, it's more than a hobby now, it's kind of a lifestyle.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Strike that, it's more than a hobby now, it's kind of a lifestyle.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm very new to the true vintage gear but I'd open admit that this is some of the most fun I've had with gear in quite some time. Part of the fun in the hunt...no warranty. It's a risk but the reward can be huge. My Pioneer is impressive on many levels. No speakers for me...just hp's ATM. Well, unless I decide to add some vintage speakers.


----------



## Anavel0

oregonian said:


> Strike that, it's more than a hobby now, it's kind of a lifestyle.




Couldn't agree more! 

Vintage receivers (I do listen to radio) or integrated amps with headphone outs are brilliant. You can do high impedance phones off the headphone jack, you can run "hard to drive" phones off the speaker terminals (HiFiMAN or Audez'e), or get and energizer to speaker terminals and you can drive electrostatics for a lot less than a regular electrostatic amp. Oh and I forgot most (if not all) have built in phono amps!!

I haven't got one YET, but it's definitely my next purchase. Then new headphones. (My 10 year old HD580 finally gave up the ghost.)


----------



## Rawrbington

OK
  don't kick me out of the club.
  I've been using my Yamaha A-S500 lately as my daily office/room/computer driver.  The marantz is on speaker duty.
  Its vintage if by vintage we mean 3 years old.
  Its not great with most dynamic headphones i ran with it minus the HD650
  but with the LCD2 its fantastic.
  Better than my 2245?
  not really.
  its just different.
  i've culled a lot of my recievers.
  down to just a 2245, KR9050(stowed away for a rainy day) Scott 200b(needs work) and CR 640.
  im sort of over it.
  Not over my love for vintage units
  but over buying and selling different models from same or similar lines.  it just piles up so quickly.  and selling takes a bit longer than runing to the ATM and driving across town.
   
  Unless its a marantz or pioneer and the price is right.
  OR
  its a TOTL and the price is right
  Or its a KA907
  or a Sansui AU717/919/ and up.
  Or a Fisher tube amp
  Or another bigger HH Scott.
   
  tldr
  im a mess.
   
  oh almost forgot why i started this post.
  the thing i do miss from going to the yam integrated is i can't wake up in the morning and turn on my FM radio.
  Have to wake up the pc, google the station, then stream.  its just not the same.


----------



## moodyrn

I feel really fortunate to own two of the amps on your short list.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm very new to the true vintage gear but I'd open admit that this is some of the most fun I've had with gear in quite some time. Part of the fun in the hunt...no warranty. It's a risk but the reward can be huge. My Pioneer is impressive on many levels. No speakers for me...just hp's ATM. Well, unless I decide to add some vintage speakers.


 
   
  Vintage speakers can be a lot of fun too.  I bought 3 pairs over the last year (kept two and gave one to my nephew).  If all the drivers are good, then generally at most it's a re-foam of any degraded surrounds, refreshing the electrolytic caps in the crossover, and Deoxit any controls.  In general, much less to go wrong or searching to troubleshoot.
   
  These speakers are late 70's vintage
   

   
  And don't forget the vintage turntable while you're at it.


----------



## Silent One

What are y'all's impression on the Kenny KR9050?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





captouch said:


>


 
  Please don't put your IMF porn here!!!! I missed one locally!!


----------



## Silent One

captouch, that's gorgeous!!!


----------



## captouch

meewoo said:


> Please don't put your IMF porn here!!!! I missed one locally!!




They can still be found now and then - I picked up two pairs (first pair was TLS 50 II's) locally within the last year. Where are you located?


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I have no experience with earlier Marantz model.
> All I know is that some people really dig first generation transistor stuff, but not me.
> It can't take spade connector, you have to buy some pin type connectors.


 
  Re-terminate the spring connectors with modern-day twist on spade connectors.


----------



## Skylab

Cap touch those are awesome looking! If you haven't already you should post them in the vintage speaker thread. Love me some vintage speakers too...

I got over the "buy every vintage piece I can find" phase long ago, but my love for my vintage audio has only increased, not lessened. Once I bought an SX-1980, it was kinda over in terms of the amp/receiver part. I've added some accent pieces, and I have upgraded my vintage speakers a couple times as well. But mostly now it's sit, listen, and enjoy!!!! Which luckily for me I get to do with great regularity.


----------



## MattTCG

Captouch...I think maybe you had your floor redone to match the speakers...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Seriously, gorgeous. I love that many of the vintage components offer real wood. 
   
  With receivers, it would just be purely aesthetic. But of course with speakers it would improve the sound like wooden cups on hp's.


----------



## shipsupt

Gents, I stepped away to watch some "vintage" rock, Danzig played here this week.  Great show!
   
  Thanks everyone for the UK suggestions... the hunt has started!


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Earlier in this mammoth thread, I posted about issues I was having with my Kenwood KR-9400 and its sound quality. I am happy to report that after pressing in the "AF Muting" button (I believe it is similar to the -20db on other vintage receivers), it really widened up the soundstage for my headphones. Before, the mids were so sharp and forward, it hurt to turn it up. Now it is clear, spacious and very 3D. The mids are not recessed now, but more neutral, so I am getting more highs/lows than I was before. I am using it to drive my HD800 and Audio Technica AD2000x straight from my Marantz SACD8004 (it has a built-in DAC as well) and it is absolutely beautiful on both. No goofy "pairing" issues. I put in an electronic album and I could almost "see" the sounds that are normally buried in the mix.
> 
> Score one for the vintage scene. This thing blows away every dedicated headphone amplifier I've heard so far (mostly in the $1000-$1500 range).
> 
> So just a question...if I were to pick up a second vintage receiver mostly as a headphone amp, what would compliment the KR-9400? I want to say it is slightly warm and I have read a lot of Pioneers are brighter or neutral.


 
   
  My Pioneer A60 does seem a tad brighter than my Denon and Yamaha. Especially with the straight wire engaged which makes sense.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> What are y'all's impression on the Kenny KR9050?


 
  Well it certainly looks the bees legs!
   

   
   
  One of the best apparently from the little I've read about it (apart from plastic switches..) 200 wpc


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Well it certainly looks the bees legs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The 8010 is supposed to be very good too.  Would like to get one.


----------



## Mr.Sneis

I may be closing in on two "one channel out" Kenwood receivers for $50 total.  KR 3400 and KR 6400.  Not much info on these around the web - anyone know anything?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Well it certainly looks the bees legs!
> 
> 
> One of the best apparently from the little I've read about it (apart from plastic switches..) 200 wpc


 
   
  Lovely!


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Cap touch those are awesome looking! If you haven't already you should post them in the vintage speaker thread. Love me some vintage speakers too...
> 
> I got over the "buy every vintage piece I can find" phase long ago, but my love for my vintage audio has only increased, not lessened. Once I bought an SX-1980, it was kinda over in terms of the amp/receiver part. I've added some accent pieces, and I have upgraded my vintage speakers a couple times as well. But mostly now it's sit, listen, and enjoy!!!! Which luckily for me I get to do with great regularity.


 
   
  Thanks Skylab, I didn't know there was a vintage speaker thread.  I just posted pics of my IMF TLS 50 II, more of the RSPM IV, and a couple of Alon II as well (though not sure they're quite vintage yet).
   
  Yeah, I had to seriously curb my buying after acquiring quite a few pieces over the last year - my wife's patience was being seriously tested.  Love vintage audio as well, but am in listen-and-enjoy mode now as well.  I succumbed to turntables, but have been able to resist the reel-to-reel up to this point.
   
  BTW, I've seen pics of your gear: Awesome - really impressive stuff in pristine condition!


----------



## Oregonian

So a friend of mine is doing an estate sale for his grandmother and offered me this.....................for free.  Has a tape deck and turntable that is from the same era. 
   
  So looks like I'll be getting a receiver after all..................


----------



## MattTCG

It looks very..."realistic." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually not bad. Will expect a full report later.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> So looks like I'll be getting a receiver after all..................


 
  Score! 
   
  Just done a bit of research and the Realistic receivers seem well respected. They were similar to Pioneers apparently.
   
  +1 on the full report


----------



## Oregonian

Report will be forthcoming, gentlemen, next week after I procure said receiver..........


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It looks very..."realistic."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It literally was owned by a 'little old lady from Pasadena/er, Seattle' since new.  Been in the same shelf I hear for 30+ years...........can't wait to see it.  Said to be pristine condition.  Hope she wasn't a smoker.


----------



## PhoenixG

IMHO - I'm a big fan of the vintage Realistic sound and build quality. I'm an even bigger fan of their attractive prices haha. They really did put out some good gear and most of them can still be had at great prices.
   
  As for Kenwood - I've had the KR-9600 and the KR-790 and been able to listen to a good number of good examples and I find that they tend to share a "west coast" signature - low distortion and clear, strong presence, but strong on the bass to a fault. That strength tends for them to shoot out bass harmonics. It's not annoying or bothersome, actually, it makes most music sound awesome and powerful, but you can definitely tell with some recordings, i.e. spoken voice. Brief - you might not feel like you're there, but you'll feel something nonetheless.
   
  Pioneer also put out some really exceptional gear. My -1980 has definitely (almost) cured me from hunting for "the next best thing" in terms of receivers. It just does everything right. Lower end Pioneers usually do most things right within reason. Like many people I think a sx-1250 is probably as good as (if not ever so slightly better than [just because of build quality, really. open one of them up and you'll see - frikkin tank])  the 1980. The good ones are every bit as good as people say.
   
  On a tangent - 
  I've been playing with a Sony STR-6065 I picked up last month. I got it all cleaned up and brought to spec, new bulbs, etc. I was pretty excited about it then, and I still am. The inside is one of the most overbuilt pieces I've ever seen. Heavy gauge wire, solid terminals, built like a scuba tank. In terms of pass-through sound quality, it is every bit as good as the sx-1980. _*Dead heat tie.*_ The headphone out is plenty powerful too. It seems like it doesn't clip even at max volume, though I'd have to get an o-scope to confirm. The tuner is the only real difference - it is just not quite as good at catching those weak signals. On strong signals, it is still fantastic and the amp section does great. I'd say the tuner is still a 9.5 if the 1980 is a 10. For the price these things go for, I am ecstatic.
   
  Here's your stereo pr0n - you can see the -1980 moping in the background, but still very content with its spot on the shelf.

   
  P.S. I know y'all probably don't care, but those McIntosh XR-16 speakers are in the top 3 least-distorting and best sounding speakers I've ever listened to. Just saying - great to tell how your amp sounds.


----------



## GoldfishX

Wow, first time I've read anything positive about Realistic gear. That stuff is always dirt cheap.
   
  As far as Realistic amps/receivers, what's good? And how would you describe their sound signature?
   
  And yes, I can agree with the warmness of Kenwood, sometimes to a fault. I fall asleep more to it than I do actual critical listening.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


>


 
  Enjoyed reading that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sony is a make that seems to have such an unpredictable history... I've read that the late 60's stuff was their best. But then I'll read something like this.. They make some lovely looking gear, thats for sure. But I wouldn't know whats good or not. Might take a chance on an STR model some time as they do pop up every know and again


----------



## Silent One

The Realistic (higher-end stuff) was cheap in price (in contrast to) but wasn't it built under a Private Label with a reputable electronics OEM?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




   
  Especially the _moping _part...


----------



## Oregonian

What do you think this is worth conservatively?  More than $400?


----------



## MattTCG

Nope...$399 and not a penny more.


----------



## RatPatrol01

Was shopping for a headphone amp when my Dad emails me and says he has my Mother's old Sansui in the basement, few hours later...
   

   
  Sansui Stereo Receiver 331, powers my DT990 Pro 250 Ohms like a champ!


----------



## Silent One

Here's to Moms & Pops!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





ratpatrol01 said:


> Was shopping for a headphone amp when my Dad emails me and says he has my Mother's old Sansui in the basement, few hours later...
> 
> 
> 
> Sansui Stereo Receiver 331, powers my DT990 Pro 250 Ohms like a champ!


 
   
  Nice score!!


----------



## RatPatrol01

Seriously! Now if only they had a DAC from the 1970s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 especially now that I can crank my DT990s loud enough to hear all the interference coming off my Xonar DG


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





silent one said:


> The Realistic (higher-end stuff) was cheap in price (in contrast to) but wasn't it built under a Private Label with a reputable electronics OEM?


 
   
  Realistic is one of Radio Shack's house brands. The receivers were made on contract by a variety of companies. I've never seen a consensus on who made which models; supposedly many of them were composites of various OEM parts.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Realistic is one of Radio Shack's house brands. The receivers were made on contract by a variety of companies. I've never seen a consensus on who made which models; supposedly many of them were composites of various OEM parts.


 
   
  They did a good job on the ol' iron, all things considered.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> What do you think this is worth conservatively?  More than $400?


 
  Yes, the Pioneer Spec 1/2 pre-amp and amp are very good. Even the rack is worth $$$.
  I would say, if working well, that's over a $1000 of kit...


----------



## MattTCG

I found a Pioneer sx-636 locally for well under a $100. Don't know a thing about it, but that I like the look it. Anyone have an idea about this one?


----------



## Silent One

Honestly, the wonderful posts and pix in this thread has kept me both entertained and patient, while I await the release of my own love.


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> Yes, the Pioneer Spec 1/2 pre-amp and amp are very good. Even the rack is worth $$$.
> I would say, if working well, that's over a $1000 of kit...




Thanks for the input. I feel good then paying $280..........amazing condition from original owner and the rack is sweet.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Thanks for the input. I feel good then paying $280..........amazing condition from original owner and the rack is sweet.


 
   
  Jaw dropping score!! Highway robbery!!
   
  Man, do Oregonians have google??  Just saying......
   
  BTW, congrats with envy!!!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Jaw dropping score!! Highway robbery!!
> 
> Man, do Oregonians have google??  Just saying......
> 
> BTW, congrats with envy!!!


 





 I'm moving...


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> I'm moving...




The gent was a bit aged, had no computer and no interest in spending time selling. No idea what Craigslist is so that ought to say something. He found me by a mutual acquaintance I bought an equalizer from, asking this guy if he knew someone who wanted to buy an "old stereo". Seriously.


----------



## palmfish

That is one awesome score! Congrats!


----------



## captouch

oregonian said:


> Thanks for the input. I feel good then paying $280..........amazing condition from original owner and the rack is sweet.




Congrats! That should do you for awhile! How does it sound and what speakers have the pleasure?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> The gent was a bit aged, had no computer and no interest in spending time selling. No idea what Craigslist is so that ought to say something. He found me by a mutual acquaintance I bought an equalizer from, asking this guy if he knew someone who wanted to buy an "old stereo". Seriously.


 
   
  Seriously, You got the best stuff Pioneer can offer in 70s for the price of that rack!!!
   
  I think you can retire all you toy receivers and recap the SPEC rack, go through sister thread in speaker section and find some speakers, and enjoy your music. Never come back to this thread, because you can always laugh out our tiny whinny receivers or integrated amps.


----------



## Silent One

It's one thing to to score the Pirate's Booty. Quite another to do so like Oregonian, who didn't even risk ye neck on the plank!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





silent one said:


> It's one thing to to score the Pirate's Booty. Quite another to do so like Oregonian, who didn't even risk ye neck on the plank!


 

 I feel like I should buy a lottery ticket.  It was one of those right place, right time things that I so rarely experience. 
   
  Better pics will be coming.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I feel like I should buy a lottery ticket.  It was one of those right place, right time things that I so rarely experience.
> 
> Better pics will be coming.


 
  Lucky ****** 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  But seriously bud congrats big style!


----------



## DefQon

Winning!


----------



## LugBug1

Today I was the Receiver of this! 
   
(see what I did there, very clever I thought)
   
   

   
   

   
  Gave it a good clean both inside and out. Wasn't expecting much as the insides looked pretty dirty and there has been leaking from a couple of caps. But got a very pleasant surprise once I plugged her in. The quietest vintage I've heard yet. Lovely sweet tone. I was expecting the sound to be perhaps overly warm for my tastes from what I've read but its very similar to my Pioneer. Paid £100. and considering that there is another one of these on fleabay going for £225.. Done quite well I think  
   
   
   
   
  and the tower so far...


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





goldfishx said:


> Wow, first time I've read anything positive about Realistic gear. That stuff is always dirt cheap.
> 
> As far as Realistic amps/receivers, what's good? And how would you describe their sound signature?
> 
> And yes, I can agree with the warmness of Kenwood, sometimes to a fault. I fall asleep more to it than I do actual critical listening.


 
  Realistic's sound signature can be all over, but their good ones tend to sound very flat, solid but not overpowering bass, can be a little too strong in the treble. Some are just a bit lacking in clarity, but still clearer than your average kenwood. Their flatness and overall sound reproduction usually keep me content for the most part. As always, try before you buy.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> IMHO - I'm a big fan of the vintage Realistic sound and build quality. I'm an even bigger fan of their attractive prices haha. They really did put out some good gear and most of them can still be had at great prices.
> 
> As for Kenwood - I've had the KR-9600 and the KR-790 and been able to listen to a good number of good examples and I find that they tend to share a "west coast" signature - low distortion and clear, strong presence, but strong on the bass to a fault. That strength tends for them to shoot out bass harmonics. It's not annoying or bothersome, actually, it makes most music sound awesome and powerful, but you can definitely tell with some recordings, i.e. spoken voice. Brief - you might not feel like you're there, but you'll feel something nonetheless.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The SX-1250 is the one receiver I have really wanted to get - really because of the build quality you mention.  Wondering what you meant by the  "The good ones are every bit as good as people say"?  Are there some 1250 SNs or build dates that should be avoided?   I have also read that some feel the sound is "unremarkable" which would be surprising to me giving the obvious care that went into building them.  Thanks!


----------



## PhoenixG

I've been lucky to be able to look inside and listen to a good sampling of the Pioneer SX lineup. (I have a friend with a room full (floor to ceiling) of receivers and about 4 of the SX models at a range of levels, and I've got the 1980) While they might look similar on the outside, the insides are worlds apart, almost like they're not based on the same thing. The TOTL pioneers have superb build quality and sound, amazing tuners, better filters, and are more overbuilt to the Nth degree. Many critical components in the 1980 have a 50x safety margin over actual power/wattage requirements. I.e. a transistor that will only ever pull .3 amps is spec'ed for 15 amps. On the lower end ones, they had to save money somewhere besides just the power output and number of buttons - the filters aren't as beefy, the components are universally smaller and lighter, there is less shielding and effort, the signal path is less shielded and overbuilt, the tuners are just different - not as good even on a theoretical level, and the transformers are different. That difference in quality is still represented in the market today. That's why you can get a sx-450 or something like it for $50, but prices increase exponentially with model number increase. The 1250 has slightly more conservative specs and maybe better shielding, but the innards are near-identical to the 1980 and that shows in the sound quality. If I'm looking for amazing sound quality with a ton of features, inputs, etc, the 1250 or 1980 are _the ideal_ to which I compare all other receivers, vintage or otherwise. The sound quality can still be good on lower end sx- models, but it's not _as_ good as the 1250/1980. 
  There aren't any production issues that I know of or SNs to avoid, just each model number is different and you have to listen to it to see if you like it. To people that say it unremarkable, they might have a specific sound preference or notion that the pioneers don't conform to. The TOTL pioneers are as flat as your signal path lets them be and the lower ones are still decent. If you have distorting speakers/headphones, you might never get the right sound. 
  On an aside, I think the Sony STR-6065 is from the late 60's early 70's, but is just a few model years newer version of their early 60's STR-6120. I hear the older 6120 has slightly fewer features with even higher build quality, but is very similar internally.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> I've been lucky to be able to look inside and listen to a good sampling of the Pioneer SX lineup. (I have a friend with a room full (floor to ceiling) of receivers and about 4 of the SX models at a range of levels, and I've got the 1980) While they might look similar on the outside, the insides are worlds apart, almost like they're not based on the same thing. The TOTL pioneers have superb build quality and sound, amazing tuners, better filters, and are more overbuilt to the Nth degree. Many critical components in the 1980 have a 50x safety margin over actual power/wattage requirements. I.e. a transistor that will only ever pull .3 amps is spec'ed for 15 amps. On the lower end ones, they had to save money somewhere besides just the power output and number of buttons - the filters aren't as beefy, the components are universally smaller and lighter, there is less shielding and effort, the signal path is less shielded and overbuilt, the tuners are just different - not as good even on a theoretical level, and the transformers are different. That difference in quality is still represented in the market today. That's why you can get a sx-450 or something like it for $50, but prices increase exponentially with model number increase. The 1250 has slightly more conservative specs and maybe better shielding, but the innards are near-identical to the 1980 and that shows in the sound quality. If I'm looking for amazing sound quality with a ton of features, inputs, etc, the 1250 or 1980 are _the ideal_ to which I compare all other receivers, vintage or otherwise. The sound quality can still be good on lower end sx- models, but it's not _as_ good as the 1250/1980.
> There aren't any production issues that I know of or SNs to avoid, just each model number is different and you have to listen to it to see if you like it. To people that say it unremarkable, they might have a specific sound preference or notion that the pioneers don't conform to. The TOTL pioneers are as flat as your signal path lets them be and the lower ones are still decent. If you have distorting speakers/headphones, you might never get the right sound.
> On an aside, I think the Sony STR-6065 is from the late 60's early 70's, but is just a few model years newer version of their early 60's STR-6120. I hear the older 6120 has slightly fewer features with even higher build quality, but is very similar internally.


 
   
  Thanks very much for your insights.  My plan is to get a 1250 when the funds are available and totally refurb it with nothing but the best electrolytic caps (assuming it needs it).  Really looking forward to it!


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I found a Pioneer sx-636 locally for well under a $100. Don't know a thing about it, but that I like the look it. Anyone have an idea about this one?


 
   
  I recently restored the SX-636 I bought new in 1977 or so.  It sounds great now.  There are some blue Sanyo capacitors and a few problematic transistors that will probably need to be replaced though.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I recently restored the SX-636 I bought new in 1977 or so.  It sounds great now.  There are some blue Sanyo capacitors and a few problematic transistors that will probably need to be replaced though.


 

 How do you compare sx-636 to your restored NAD 3020? I got 3020 almost same time as yours and shocked by how "big" sound this little amp can produce!


----------



## nick n

Everybody likes pictures so why not. I get excited about seeing clean, stylish and cool stuff, hope you find this at least interesting.
   
  Currently headed this way.
  I'm a fan of compact, vintage and if possible simpler the better.
  A nice , and apparently rare Electra SA-100 ( made in Japan ) single-ended tube looks like early 60's since it looks similar period to my minty restored germanium transistor based Lafayette ( pretty darn close housing and rear ).

   
  This thing has_ dual volume_  and dual tone controls.
   

   
  Looks like nice shielded transformers
   

   
   
   
  According to the fella I got it from:
  All leads were completely desoldered and new caps installed with spaghetti tubing
  New stock capacitors including polyester metal film Cornell-Dubellier orange dips, Miec filter caps
  The mono/stereo and norm/inverse switches were bypassed with shielded cable to provide a noise free and short signal path ( apparently made an audible difference )
  5W true RMS into 8 ohms
  Original NEC tubes (6CA4 rectifier, 12AX7 pre-amp, 7189(6BQ5) x2 outputs, but I have some Russian 6P14P-ER which are 6BQ5/EL84 equivalents, which means now I can listen to the Russian orthos properly 
   
  Just need to grab a speaker tap headphone jack/speaker selector unit and good to go.  And guess I should consider a replacement grounded cord eventually for safety's sake.
  This is to hold me over until I do some real work ( go to town on them ) on the larger tube units later when i get some enthusiasm, if ever. They can sit pretty in the cabinet for now.
   
  Hope this sounds decent.


----------



## DefQon

Look's like it's using quality chokes and power trafo's for those EL84's, I bet that beauty is pretty heavy.


----------



## SpeakerBox

So I know we all like images, here so here is a recently completed project of mine.  I have always been partial to the old Sherwoods (especially the S-7100A).  If this unit has a fault it is the limitations produced by capacitor coupling to the speakers/phones.  With this in mind I set out to make the unit shown on my night stand the best it could be.  To that end I did the following:
   
  1.) Replaced all electrolytic capacitors with high quality parts from Rubycon, United Chemicon, and Nichicon.
  2.) I bumped the size of the main filter capacitor from 2200uf to 6800uf for more power reserves.
  3.) To compensate for additional surge current from the new filter cap I upgraded the power supply diodes to 2A fast recovery schottky diodes.
  4.) Bumped up the coupling capacitors from the stock 2200uf to 6800uf Nichicon Gold Tunes to reduce phase shift and improve base response.
  5.) Bypassed the filter and coupling capacitors with low value film caps to improve transient and frequency response.
  6.) Replaced all signal path electrolytic capacitors with film (big improvement).
  7.) Re-solder all board to board connections and fix any deteriorating solder joints.
  8.) All soldering done with WBT silver.
  9.) The volume control power switch was broken (common problem) so replaced with Marantz style power switch on lower/far right (Sherwood switches are unobtainium).
  10.) Cleaned inside and out and replaced all the bulbs.
   
  Even with the fact that I am using the cheap KOSS HPs you see in the picture - this thing sounds incredible!!!.  I do plan on new phones - but budget tight right now.  Any of you who want to make suggestions for a good HP to use with this unit - please chime in.
   
  This is the best thread on the web!


----------



## captouch

Very Impressive work SpeakerBox, bet it sounds awesome. I was impressed with the Sherwood I saw when I was shopping for my first vintage receiver. It was silent with volume all the way up to max and build quality seemed great.

What kind of sound signature are you looking for on the cans? Warm, full, detailed, analytical, balanced, how much bass needed, etc?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Very Impressive work SpeakerBox, bet it sounds awesome. I was impressed with the Sherwood I saw when I was shopping for my first vintage receiver. It was silent with volume all the way up to max and build quality seemed great.
> 
> What kind of sound signature are you looking for on the cans? Warm, full, detailed, analytical, balanced, how much bass needed, etc?


 
  Yes, this unit has far exceeded my expectations.  Very pleased!  As for tastes, I really like detail - but some warmth is always welcome.  I have been thinking about the Grado sr60i.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Yes, this unit has far exceeded my expectations.  Very pleased!  As for tastes, I really like detail - but some warmth is always welcome.  I have been thinking about the Grado sr60i.


 
  I love Grados but I haven't had the best results using them with vintage gear which seems more suited to higher impedance headphones than the Grados.
  I'm not sure if your modifications changes the headphone output impedance.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> I love Grados but I haven't had the best results using them with vintage gear which seems more suited to higher impedance headphones than the Grados.
> I'm not sure if your modifications changes the headphone output impedance.


 
  No change to output impedance.  What HPs would you recommend?


----------



## MattTCG

Got the cabinet finished for my sx-650!!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Got the cabinet finished for my sx-650!!


 





  Looking good!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Looking good!


 
  +1


----------



## kenshinhimura

i need to do something like that on my sx-780. looks great matt


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks guys. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've got to go back and apply the finishing touches. The front corner pieces of walnut are almost ready. Also, I got the replacement lights soldered (thanks Skylab). 
   
  The cool thing about this particular sx-650 is that the front glass, bezel and facia was nearly pristine. The wood cabinet was the only "rough" issue with the receiver. With the cabinet rebuild, it will look and work almost as new. 
   
  Very excited to start enjoying it again with the he-4.


----------



## palmfish

speakerbox said:


> No change to output impedance.  What HPs would you recommend?




In my experience, planar magnetic headphones are pretty much the only ones that are not negatively affected by high output impedance vintage amps.

Sennheisers (HD600, 650, 700, 800) are affected in the mid-bass and to a lesser extent treble, but in a way that some head-fiers enjoy (it warms them up and thickens the bass).

I also found the big Denons (AH-D2000, 5000, 7000 and Fostex TH-600, 900) to be minimally affected.


----------



## MattTCG

+1 My hd650 sounds better to me on newer amps but the he-4 just turns into something magical on my vintage steel.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> Looking good!


 
  Very nice indeed!!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> In my experience, planar magnetic headphones are pretty much the only ones that are not negatively affected by high output impedance vintage amps.
> 
> Sennheisers (HD600, 650, 700, 800) are affected in the mid-bass and to a lesser extent treble, but in a way that some head-fiers enjoy (it warms them up and thickens the bass).
> 
> I also found the big Denons (AH-D2000, 5000, 7000 and Fostex TH-600, 900) to be minimally affected.


 
  Ok, will look into that.  Thanks!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> No change to output impedance.  What HPs would you recommend?


 
  Can't, I only have Grados. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  I use my Pioneer SA 7100 in a vinyl speaker rig.
  If I want to listen to vinyl on my Grados I hook a headphone amp to the tape out on the amp...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> In my experience, planar magnetic headphones are pretty much the only ones that are not negatively affected by high output impedance vintage amps.
> 
> Sennheisers (HD600, 650, 700, 800) are affected in the mid-bass and to a lesser extent treble, but in a way that some head-fiers enjoy (it warms them up and thickens the bass).
> 
> I also found the big Denons (AH-D2000, 5000, 7000 and Fostex TH-600, 900) to be minimally affected.


 
  While I agree that the high impedance does fill out the lower frequencies, I must say that the HD800's (only Senns I've tried with vintage stuff) bass is tighter and more controlled than any hp amp I've tried. This was instantly noticeable the first time I plugged them in my Pioneer. I could really make out every finger pluck of the double bass in complex jazz pieces. No bloom, but more weight. Not sure how you could claim that that is a negative... Maybe coloured hp's that are warm or have an emphasized mid bass to begin with I could understand. Such as the HD650's.
  Also the treble is much- much better than hp amps that I've tried. Better because it is just as extended but actually sounds real. No sharp edges or hardness and no less bright with it. Granted I haven't owned any high end headphone amps to compare, only mid price.  
  But really puzzling my friend!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Can't, I only have Grados.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So sounds like the recommendation is - don't use the sr60i with vintage receivers?  To bad -seems like a good deal price wise.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> While I agree that the high impedance does fill out the lower frequencies, I must say that the HD800's (only Senns I've tried with vintage stuff) bass is tighter and more controlled than any hp amp I've tried. This was instantly noticeable the first time I plugged them in my Pioneer. I could really make out every finger pluck of the double bass in complex jazz pieces. No bloom, but more weight. Not sure how you could claim that that is a negative... Maybe coloured hp's that are warm or have an emphasized mid bass to begin with I could understand. Such as the HD650's.
> Also the treble is much- much better than hp amps that I've tried. Better because it is just as extended but actually sounds real. No sharp edges or hardness and no less bright with it. Granted I haven't owned any high end headphone amps to compare, only mid price.
> But really puzzling my friend!




My HD800 sounds thick and bloomy through the vintage amps I own. Same for HD600 and 650 that I previously owned.

No doubt it comes down to music type and personal taste.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> How do you compare sx-636 to your restored NAD 3020? I got 3020 almost same time as yours and shocked by how "big" sound this little amp can produce!


 
   
  I've not done a direct comparo.  Sorry.  I should, the NAD sitting on top of the SX-636 right now.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





nick n said:


> Everybody likes pictures so why not. I get excited about seeing clean, stylish and cool stuff, hope you find this at least interesting.
> 
> Currently headed this way.
> I'm a fan of compact, vintage and if possible simpler the better.
> ...


 
   
*Certainly looks nice.  All the caps look new to me.  That is a good thing.*


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> My HD800 sounds thick and bloomy through the vintage amps I own. Same for HD600 and 650 that I previously owned.
> 
> *No doubt it comes down to music type and personal taste.*


 
  Absolutely. 
   
  And I must add, I don't think that vintage amps are the end all for the hd800's. The sound is very good to my ears but of course there is always room for improvement. They are finicky beast, to be sure! But putting some meat on them bones can only be good thing in my book, as they can be a trifle thin and sharp sounding on lower powered amps.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> And I must add, I don't think that vintage amps are the end all for the hd800's. The sound is very good to my ears but of course there is always room for improvement. They are finicky beast, to be sure! But putting some meat on them bones can only be good thing in my book, as they can be a trifle thin and sharp sounding on lower powered amps.




I think we're in agreement. Only what sounds thin and sharp to you is articulate and clear to me


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I think we're in agreement. Only what sounds thin and sharp to you is articulate and clear to me


----------



## Oregonian

Spent last night and this morning unloading, cleaning, setting up and wiring this beast.
   
  From the top -
   
  Yamaha P520 turntable (had that already) - next to that is an iPod touch for the non-vintage touch - but it IS playing Pink Floyd!
  TX-9500II tuner - and I have to admit, after listening to FM for years, I am NOW - local classic rock station KGON is rocking!
  CTF-1000 tape deck - likely will never use this so may find a CD player for this slot
  SPEC 1 pre-amp
  SG-9500 equalizer
  SPEC 2 amp - (250 watts per channel)
   
  Running into some Polk Audio speakers - good yes, but does not do this justice.
  Phones are Denon D2000 w/Mark L full treatment
   

   
  One meter light is out as is the Equalizer bulb.  Everything else works as it should.


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> Got the cabinet finished for my sx-650!!




Matt I bet that's the nicest SX-650 out there.

And Oregonian...WOW. Major score!!!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


>


 
  Deserves to be seen again. Magnifico!!


----------



## MattTCG

Good grief Oregonian!! There are no words really. And you paid how much for that? 
   
  I'm sitting here trying to visualize my wife's reaction if I brought that monster home...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (the dead horse would be me).


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Got the cabinet finished for my sx-650!!


 

 That.  Is.  Gorgeous.  
   
  It's so nice you don't want to put it in a rack!!  Nice job.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks so much. It's about two hours from being completely done. And then...
   
  I want a Sansui.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Good grief Oregonian!! There are no words really. And you paid how much for that?
> 
> I'm sitting here trying to visualize my wife's reaction if I brought that monster home...
> 
> ...


 

 Matt, the amount of time I spent justifying it in my mind and coming up with a spiel to tell her was, well, hours.  And truth be told, when I told her I paid $280 and it was literally a once in a lifetime find she said, good for you.  All the buildup, all the stress...................and she let me down.  In a good way of course. 
   
  Just last week I brought home my turntable and made the huge mistake of using our computer/audio room coffee table to set it up just to test it................I was in the dog house quickly.  This she says "good for you".  After 25 years of marriage I still can not figure her out.  Nor will I likely ever.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Matt I bet that's the nicest SX-650 out there.
> 
> And Oregonian...WOW. Major score!!!!


 

 Skylab, coming from you that is truly high praise.  Got lucky, right place right time.  Glad I decided to take that phone call.  And to buy it even knowing my wife might divorce me over it.  (see my comments above).................love my wife................love my wife................love my wife..................


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Spent last night and this morning unloading, cleaning, setting up and wiring this beast.
> 
> From the top -
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Lordy, that's some major iron!   Congrats.


----------



## PhoenixG

Nice rack! Now get yourself some nice HPM xxxx's, S-XX10's, or McIntosh XR-xx's to go with them!


----------



## jbusuego

That's a major score for $280.00. Wish I could a score like that.


----------



## LugBug1

Spent a bit of time with the Marantz last night and today and I'm yet again astounded by the quality of sound... Trying to do a bit of a/bing with my Pioneer but its hard because I have to change the cables etc. But I think I'm leaning slightly in favour to the Marantz at this stage. I think it is a little faster sounding, a little sweeter in the treble. Bass is the same on both. Also I can turn the Marantz right up to 3 oclock before I start to get any signs of hiss. With the Pioneer there is always a very slight hsss as soon as the volume is turned on. This is when no music is playing. Think this is going to be me done for a while... Wife said she's a bit sick of all the decks (decks!?) in the living room and now the bedroom... I've got my Pioneer on my bedside table hahaha MuhahaHAHA! (I think it looks nice and the wood matches the table . I've told her that vintage Marantz don't come round very often, but there's millions of whinging women out there..    
   
  Anyone notice that I have custom knobs!


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> <snip>
> Anyone notice that I have custom knobs!


 
   
  I'm sure your wife is pleased.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mrq said:


> I'm sure your wife is pleased.


----------



## RatPatrol01

Got a Modi in the mail today and slapped it on top of the now much cleaner Sansui, the pair are a ******* treat to listen to


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





ratpatrol01 said:


> Got a Modi in the mail today and slapped it on top of the now much cleaner Sansui, the pair are a ******* treat to listen to


 
  Lookin good, modern dac and old receiver. Works for me too


----------



## Trav

LugBug1 said:
			
		

> Spent a bit of time with the Marantz last night and today and I'm yet again astounded by the quality of sound... Trying to do a bit of a/bing with my Pioneer but its hard because I have to change the cables etc. But I think I'm leaning slightly in favour to the Marantz at this stage. I think it is a little faster sounding, a little sweeter in the treble. Bass is the same on both. Also I can turn the Marantz right up to 3 oclock before I start to get any signs of hiss. With the Pioneer there is always a very slight hsss as soon as the volume is turned on. This is when no music is playing. Think this is going to be me done for a while... Wife said she's a bit sick of all the decks (decks!?) in the living room and now the bedroom... I've got my Pioneer on my bedside table hahaha MuhahaHAHA! (I think it looks nice and the wood matches the table . I've told her that vintage Marantz don't come round very often, but there's millions of whinging women out there..
> 
> Anyone notice that I have custom knobs!


----------



## Trav

It didn't get my text Lugbug, but ROFLMAO..nice.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





trav said:


> It didn't get my text Lugbug, but ROFLMAO..nice.


 





 bud!


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, I got all three front lights working (thanks again Skylab). The entire cabinet is redone in a nice walnut hardwood. Lastly, the two small rectangular pieces of wood on the front corners are being re-sanded and then varnished. After that, I will only stare longingly at my wonderful receiver while I enjoy the music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Until I buy the next piece of vintage gear.  (Sansui...shhh, don't tell the wife).


----------



## Skylab

Awesome! Glad I was able to help a little. When it's all back together please post some additional pics!


----------



## DefQon

@Oregonian: That is one massive rack. Reminds me of those old pictures you see on the internet of a recording studio from the 70's with all those shiny silver equipment.


----------



## solserenade

matttcg said:


> Mind you this is unfinished...be nice.




That looks great! I have one, would love to look at some real wood - but frankly it's in great shape and it seems to work with the "veneer" ha ha


----------



## pixelsphotopro

What cable are you using to connect to the speaker taps? Homemade cable?
   
Thank you
Daniel


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





reb said:


> Well, the teac bx500 arrived and except for a faint crackle in the volume pot which appears now and then it is in the condition the seller promised me it would be in. That is to say, very good, all the pot meter (alps) are fine, no channel imbalance, the vu meters work and so do the lights. With the muting (20dB) on, the vu meters move up and down quite nicely.
> 
> This one is a surprise soundwise because it is significantly more transparent, spatious and open than my other vintage gear. If you fiddle a bit with the tone controls, you'll get that typical 70s sound out of it (warm, comforting, but detailed and powerful), but in 'neutral' it is not warm at all. I am getting used to it as we speak, but I have been pleasantly surprised, both by the quality and the signature of the sound. And being somewhat of a cheap skate, by its ridiculous price of 25 euros. It may be a bit too trebly for me in with all the controls on the zero, but that's easily remedied.  I'm inclined to think teac amps are a bit of a sleeper!
> 
> I am listening through a k500 and a fostex 20rpv2 btw. It drives both of them effortlessly. It is only too trebly with the k500, I just found out. The fostex is much darker by nature.


 
  Hi, I've just get a couples weeks ago a Harman Kardon PM655 Vxi, and just find that the left channel is a little unbalanced, where should I look first? Capacitors?or else, the amp if perfectly balance on the headphone output
  Thanks in advance for your help
   
  Daniel


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> Hi, I've just get a couples weeks ago a Harman Kardon PM655 Vxi, and just find that the left channel is a little unbalanced, where should I look first? Capacitors?or else, the amp if perfectly balance on the headphone output
> Thanks in advance for your help
> 
> Daniel


 
   


 Did you try deoxit? The dirty little controls of this amp cause a lot problems, I have PM665. If you don't know what Deoxit is, try search on this thread. Hope this help!


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Thank you, I will do, how do you like to headphone output on your PM665 ?
  Daniel


----------



## MattTCG

I finally am done with the cabinet for the sx-650!! Here a quick shot
  .
   
  The front corners were painful. But I think that it came out pretty good. Certainly better than the stock cabinet.
   
  Here's some irony. On the very day that I finish the sx-650, I picked up a 9090db. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Yep. Couldn't resist the deal. I blame Moody for this one.


----------



## Skylab

Looks good! And LOL @ buying the 9090db. I had one of those for quite a while...great receiver. Unless its been rebuilt, though, the Dolby board can be kinda problematic. Just something to be aware of if it gives you trouble.


----------



## MattTCG

What kind of trouble should I be aware of?


----------



## Skylab

If you get channel drop outs, that may be a sign the Dolby board will need work. Unfortunately for that design the Dolby board is in the signal path for ever source, even if the Dolby itself is disengaged.


----------



## MattTCG

Including the headphone output?


----------



## Skylab

Yes of course - the headphone out is coming right off the main power amp, as with all these vintage amps and receivers - that's the big benefit to them for us head-fiers!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> Thank you, I will do, how do you like to headphone output on your PM665 ?
> Daniel


 
   
  You don't need to worry the power of HK to drive hps. The problem is whether you like the signature sound of HK.
  I had 730 once, sold it and keep PM665. I pair it with revealing hp like AKG, to me, Sennheiser sounds dull with HK.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> Hi, I've just get a couples weeks ago a Harman Kardon PM655 Vxi, and just find that the left channel is a little unbalanced, where should I look first? Capacitors?or else, the amp if perfectly balance on the headphone output
> Thanks in advance for your help
> 
> Daniel


 
   
  I have restored at least 20 receivers and weak channels have been a common issue.  It has always been one of 3 issues for me:
   
  1.) Bad solder joint (they usually have little cracks in the form of concentric rings due to heating and cooling over many years).
  2.) A bad electrolytic capacitor in the signal path (this just happened to me a couple of weeks ago).
  3.) Dirty volume, tone, or balance control (tape monitor switch is common too).  As already mentioned use DeoxIT (but not on Sherwood volume controls - it eats the plastic inside).
   
  Good luck.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Thank you, really appreciate your help, will let you know how it worked out
  Daniel


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> As already mentioned use DeoxIT (but not on Sherwood volume controls - it eats the plastic inside).


 
   
  Hi, Speakerbox, could you shed more light on Sherwood issue? Did you mean all models (from earlier tubes to 80's stuff)? Or just some models in 70's? Thanks!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I finally am done with the cabinet for the sx-650!! Here a quick shot
> .
> 
> The front corners were painful. But I think that it came out pretty good. Certainly better than the stock cabinet.
> ...


 
  Gorgeous! and congrats on the Sansui.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Hi, Speakerbox, could you shed more light on Sherwood issue? Did you mean all models (from earlier tubes to 80's stuff)? Or just some models in 70's? Thanks!!


 
  Sure.  There have been a number of reports of the early 70s Sherwoods having the volume control messed up by DeoxIT.  Specifically these are the old APLS VCs with the integrated power switch.  The mail problem I heard about was the power switch portion of it no longer working after application - some plastic inside the switch deteriorates.  I did an experiment on an old Sherwood ALPS that already had a broken power switch and it seemed to negatively impact the volume portion too (the left and right side had uneven output after using the Deoxit).  Please note though, that this was a very old VC and the only issue I am absolutely sure of is the power switch part.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I finally am done with the cabinet for the sx-650!! Here a quick shot
> .
> 
> The front corners were painful. But I think that it came out pretty good. Certainly better than the stock cabinet.
> ...


 
   
  Great job, MattTCG! At-a-glance, I'm reminded of Yamaha (the cabinet) until pix comes in to
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 focus. Congrats on the Sansui!


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks to all for the kind words and to everyone who pitched in to help with the acquisition and repair (Moody and Skylab). It's like Christmas at my house.


----------



## Trav

matttcg said:


> I finally am done with the cabinet for the sx-650!! Here a quick shot Beautiful work! Nice find on the 9090...I'm not jealous at all...no really I'm not..I have a disease that turns me green.
> .
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## captouch

> Here's some irony. On the very day that I finish the sx-650, I picked up a 9090db.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You can stop now if you want Matt - the 9090db should satisfy you for the long term.  Congrats and love to hear how it compares with your Pioneer on the various cans you're using.


----------



## Destroysall

Hey guys, I wish to venture into the world of vintage receivers. Is this a good buy?
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3798488006.html

I primarily wanted to use it for the phono amp and the headphone output.


----------



## captouch

destroysall said:


> Hey guys, I wish to venture into the world of vintage receivers. Is this a good buy?
> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3798488006.html
> 
> I primarily wanted to use it for the phono amp and the headphone output.




Seems reasonable to me since you don't have to pay shipping. Seems to be in very good shape besides the veneer, which can be fixed unlike defects in the face. I bought a similar power Yamaha for $35 and a 60W late '70's Kenwood for $50, but honestly, paying a few bucks more than a 'score' price isn't going to matter if you like the look of the receiver and plan to keep it awhile. 

I would bring your headphones along and listen to them on the actual receiver, and if the phono stage is important, hopefully you can verify that's working as well before you buy.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





destroysall said:


> Hey guys, I wish to venture into the world of vintage receivers. Is this a good buy?
> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3798488006.html
> 
> I primarily wanted to use it for the phono amp and the headphone output.


 
  Looks good - MattTCG can make you a real wood case, no problem...


----------



## Oregonian

destroysall said:


> Hey guys, I wish to venture into the world of vintage receivers. Is this a good buy?
> http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3798488006.html
> 
> I primarily wanted to use it for the phono amp and the headphone output.




Like captouch suggested, show up with phones, iPod, RCA cables amped plug in and test the headphone out. Looks like a good deal.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





captouch said:


> You can stop now if you want Matt - the 9090db should satisfy you for the long term.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  There will be no more vintage receivers unless I sell one of my current stock. I have a two amp rule, no more. I don't have the space for another one anyway. Plus my wife would likely divorce me. 
  Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Looks good - MattTCG can make you a real wood case, no problem...


 
  Yes, I'm offering custom vintage cabinet replacement. All types of wood and finishes available. They start at $500 and will be ready within a year of receiving your payment.


----------



## MattTCG

Question: Is there a way to reduce/eliminate the "hiss" on my hd650 when using a vintage receiver? There is no hiss coming from my orthos. Just wondered. 
   
  thanks...


----------



## captouch

matttcg said:


> Question: Is there a way to reduce/eliminate the "hiss" on my hd650 when using a vintage receiver? There is no hiss coming from my orthos. Just wondered.
> 
> thanks...




This is through the HP jack, not directly from speaker outputs, right? Only with volume turned up with no music playing or inbetween tracks at normal listening volumes?

On receivers with a -20dB muting button, I've heard some people use that. If from speaker taps, I've heard some people use a resistor network. But if the hiss is inherently there at loud enough volumes even with orthos or speakers, the transistors may just be noisy - heard some people replace the vintage transistors in signal path with new low noise equivalents that also reduced his for them.


----------



## LugBug1

Think the hiss on Matts Pioneer is probably just an impedance match with the 650's as has already been mentioned. You can buy rca attenuators to knock 20 decibels out of your amp but I don't think it will work because the same power will be leaving your amp. Only more resistance of power going in. 
   
  Anyways...
   
  I've been doing a bit of research on another troubling area with these old amplifiers. Capacitors. Mainly bad capacitors! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And basically what to look and 'hear' for when trying to decide if they need replacing or not. I've been concerned about this after getting my Marantz and thinking that I had leaking caps... But the amp sounded amazing? Anyways, turns out it was glue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 dried old glue at the base of a couple of caps. You can see a little of the glue on the side of caps only it has turned dark brown with age round the base. The caps are fine, no bulging or distortion. Old yes, but fine. So it looks like I may get a few more good years out of it and I'm verry pleased because I just love the sound..! 
   
  Been ploughing through a lot of AudioKarma on the subject and the general consensus seems to be if it ain't broke don't fix it. Unless you enjoy doing it and enjoy bringing 'new life' into these old machines for fun. Please note, I'm sure recapping has benefits on 30+ year old machines. But to folks like me who have never used a clothes iron, nevermind a soldering one... It's just not gonna happen. 
   
  So unless caps are showing signs of exploding and killing your family. Just leave them be. 
   
  Signs that they are bad are : Bulging, distorted shape, leaking (no STD jokes please
   
  Signs that they are good : No Bulging, no distorted shape, no leaking, and you have nice clear sound


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Think the hiss on Matts Pioneer is probably just an impedance match with the 650's as has already been mentioned. You can buy rca attenuators to knock 20 decibels out of your amp but I don't think it will work because the same power will be leaving your amp. Only more resistance of power going in.
> 
> Anyways...
> 
> ...


 
  This.  I now have 4 30+ year old integrateds/receivers and none are even going to be looked at for trouble till they SHOW me they are trouble.


----------



## Hun7er

Hello,
   
  I just receiving my McIntosh MC225. I tried it with my AKG K1000, HE6 and HE60. I can say it's the best amplifier that I own. The bandwith are wide and doesn't seem shortened. When I hear it I don't think about bass, treble or medium, all frequencies are integrated and not highlighted. It just let flow the music effortless. It doesn't sound muddy or harsh. There are a lot of air but isn't distant or etched. It has that clarity that let your hear each instrument. 
  It can be fast like a thunder. 
  The HE6 on it has tremendous bass.


----------



## Silent One

Outstanding Hun7er! Pix please...


----------



## MattTCG

I won't be long until the word is truly out about how well the vintage gear can drive hp's and then we'll all be paying 2x as much for said gear.


----------



## Silent One

2x what we pay now... is that all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We'll see _value_ ripped straight from our clutches!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I won't be long until the word is truly out about how well the vintage gear can drive hp's and then we'll all be paying 2x as much for said gear.


 

 Keep buying your inventory now......................


----------



## MattTCG

Oddly, with the Pioneer and Sansui I feel complete. I just want to do a little cosmetic touch up here and there. The Pioneer is cosmetically complete. Now I have to give the Sansui the treatment.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Oddly, with the Pioneer and Sansui I feel complete. I just want to do a little cosmetic touch up here and there. The Pioneer is cosmetically complete. Now I have to give the Sansui the treatment.


 
   





 If I don't hurry up and get my grubby lil' hands on my Pioneer & Sansui, I'm gonna pick up the iPod and won't never look back!


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, so here's an interesting story. I went into batteries plus this evening to look at some led bulbs. I'm telling the nice lady what I'm looking for and she's showing me what she has in store. She asked me what kind of project this is for. I tell her that I'm into vintage receivers and that I'm doing a relighting project.
   
  She says, "oh, my husband has one of those darn things. It hasn't been turned on in about 5-6 years." So instantly my vintage radar goes off. I say in my most casual voice, "oh yeah...do you know what kind it is?" She responds, "pretty sure it's a Pioneer...yep it's a Pioneer. And it's enormous." 
   
  Now my vintage radar goes immediately to defcon 3. Now I feel my armpits getting sweaty. I wonder if I can make enough spit to get out the next question. "So do you know the model?"  She says, "well, I should know it cause I've dusted that damn things for the past 20 years. I think it's a something 1980." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  "Do you mean that you have an sx-1980?" I say. 
   
  "Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it," says batteries plus lady. 
   
  "So do you think he might want to sell it?" My body is basically numb. She says,"I'll ask him and if he'll do it I'll send you a few pictures."
   
   
  Silent prayer in my head,"God, I've been good right? If there is any way that you might see your way to me owning that amp I'd be so very grateful."
   
  Stay tuned for pics possibly to follow tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

. . .


----------



## kenshinhimura

good luck


----------



## Anavel0

Holy cow! Fingers crossed for you!


----------



## palmfish

matttcg said:


> Okay, so here's an interesting story. I went into batteries plus this evening to look at some led bulbs. I'm telling the nice lady what I'm looking for and she's showing me what she has in store. She asked me what kind of project this is for. I tell her that I'm into vintage receivers and that I'm doing a relighting project.
> 
> She says, "oh, my husband has one of those darn things. It hasn't been turned on in about 5-6 years." So instantly my vintage radar goes off. I say in my most casual voice, "oh yeah...do you know what kind it is?" She responds, "pretty sure it's a Pioneer...yep it's a Pioneer. And it's enormous."
> 
> ...




I had a very similar experience last week. Just replace "Battery Plus lady" with "Skeet Range Safety Officer" and "Pioneer SX1980" with "Klipsch LaScalas." I gave him my number and saying a little prayer every night before bed.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Okay, so here's an interesting story. I went into batteries plus this evening to look at some led bulbs. I'm telling the nice lady what I'm looking for and she's showing me what she has in store. She asked me what kind of project this is for. I tell her that I'm into vintage receivers and that I'm doing a relighting project.
> 
> She says, "oh, my husband has one of those darn things. It hasn't been turned on in about 5-6 years." So instantly my vintage radar goes off. I say in my most casual voice, "oh yeah...do you know what kind it is?" She responds, "pretty sure it's a Pioneer...yep it's a Pioneer. And it's enormous."
> 
> ...




That's a great story. I felt your excitement.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Stay tuned for pics possibly to follow tomorrow.


 
  Wowza!! Keep us informed!


----------



## Happy Bullets

Don't know if this counts, but I'm eager to find out how the Fostex TH600 sounds with my baby.  MC 2205.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> Don't know if this counts, but I'm eager to find out how the Fostex TH600 sounds with my baby.  MC 2205.


 
  Hey if its got power meters! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  We likes McIntosh's


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, nobody call me today. Got to keep all lines of communication open for batteries plus lady. I've added her contact info to my phone, so now if she calls it will display "Holy Grail."


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, nobody call me today. Got to keep all lines of communication open for batteries plus lady. I've added her contact info to my phone, so now if she calls it will display "Holy Grail."


 
  haha
   
  If she doesn't call, I would call her and make an offer of $150 or something. Because they might only be expecting $20 or so.. It might make their day!! As well as yours


----------



## MattTCG

It may not work out. I'm trying not to get my hopes up. I rarely "win" anything or fall backwards into a great deal. 
   
  The great thing about this quest/preoccupation for vintage gear is that some of this stuff is not really on the grid anymore. The hunt for it and the low admission price for such beautiful sounding gear is the truly compelling part for me. I suppose it's my frugal nature and my age that gives me a real appreciation for this stuff. But I'm not telling you guys anything that you don't already know. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm just glad that I'm not getting to the party too late...


----------



## Skylab

I definitely would not simply wait for her call. Don't be a stalker, but making one call today is a good idea. And if the thing works, be a sport and offer $300. That would be an unbelievable score, and you could 8-9 x that money on eBay in a heartbeat.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Absolutely. I don't believe in cheating people. Treat people with kindness and it will come back to you. I'll give a call this afternoon if I haven't heard anything. I think $300 sounds reasonable.


----------



## PhoenixG

Matt, if there's anything that'll "cure" the vintage bug, it's a 1980. There is no way I'd ever sell mine and it is always "worth it" to repair.
   
  Orrrrr it can make it worse since now you'll only be looking for TOTL's to compare it to and you'll get grumpy anytime anything does something as well as or even slightly better. Or you might end up with 5 pairs of speakers in your listening rooms (amIright skylab? haha). If you get that you will HAVE TO get better speakers to go with it for sure. I think I've run through almost a dozen pairs looking for the "right" ones (found 'em though! Hit up the speaker thread or PM me if you want my dissertation on the matter.). 
  The good news is that you won't go into a cold sweat every time you find out that your mailman has a 9090db (true story for me - he has it hooked up in his garage - he mentioned it when I was shipping some L100's).
   
  Either way, I'm fantastically excited for you and I wish you luck on that score. If you manage $300 for the brute, you will do easily 2x as well as I did on mine and I'll be very happy for you (pro-tip: make an offer on their whole system maybe, you might be impressed with what they have as peripherals BTW). When I got mine, they guy threw in the "old" speakers that his dad bought with it - HPM-150's! On a final aside, those speakers were indeed a perfect match for the 1980, but were too fragile to live in my house.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> It may not work out. I'm trying not to get my hopes up. I rarely "win" anything or fall backwards into a great deal.
> 
> The great thing about this quest/preoccupation for vintage gear is that some of this stuff is not really on the grid anymore. The hunt for it and the low admission price for such beautiful sounding gear is the truly compelling part for me. I suppose it's my frugal nature and my age that gives me a real appreciation for this stuff. But I'm not telling you guys anything that you don't already know.
> 
> ...




The thing is my Pioneer rack system I literally fell into. You just never know…


----------



## Silent One

I'm with Skylab on this one. Acting with good spirit would make both parties a winner and leave you with good audio karma. Hmmm, now where have I seen that phrase before?


----------



## MattTCG

Good advice!! Because I'm just getting started in the vintage scene, I have lot's to learn about these wonderful old receivers. But dang, it's a whole lot of fun to be had here. 
   
  I haven't even started reading about the vintage speakers yet. Got to get on that thread and start educating myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't even have a pair of speakers hooked up to the sx-650 yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only have one pair of speakers period. Polk m50's. They are mid 90's I think, but not really my flavor. I prefer dark and warm.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Absolutely. I don't believe in cheating people. Treat people with kindness and it will come back to you. I'll give a call this afternoon if I haven't heard anything. I think $300 sounds reasonable.


 
  Who mentioned anything about cheating?? Lets keep it real chaps..
   
  Whether its $150 or $300 its still ripping them off of what could be an easy $1000 sold online.. If you _were _to be the good guy and tell them. 
   
  Don't think Karma (audio or not) works like that guys..


----------



## MattTCG

Lol. You are probably right. I only give this a one in ten shot anyway. I've already resolved myself to believe it won't work.


----------



## BigCabDaddy

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> haha
> 
> If she doesn't call, I would call her and make an offer of $150 or something. Because they might only be expecting $20 or so.. It might make their day!! As well as yours


 
   
  I think that would be over playing your hand. It might alert them that they have something valuable and they might start looking for even more. Better to slow play your hand I'm thinking.


----------



## Silent One

I beg to differ, as every situation will be different - reading in real-time what one is dealing with helps. For example, LugBug1, there are some people who simply don't want to fuss or be bothered with stuff. And sometimes, they just wanna make a contribution of kindness for enjoyment to interested parties, be it at below market value. 
   
  Can't tell you how many things I parted with over the years simply because someone showed interest. This ranging from audio gear and components to music to tea bowls. And despite parting with things I often cared about, many more wonderful things came into my life the same way on the flip-side.
   
  Kindness is a very powerful and moving thing. So in short, one would be hard-pressed to claim _"You're ripping them off."_ How can a thing be if a party is simply not interested in profit or a large one? Inside any negotiation both parties should be made to feel like winners. And it doesn't always come down to one side's pile being bigger than the other. 
   
  But these are my views, these are my opinions, based on my experiences. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And yes, I've got a pretty good idea what karma is and how it works.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I've not done a direct comparo.  Sorry.  I should, the NAD sitting on top of the SX-636 right now.


 
   
  I got around to doing this comparison today.  
   
  Pioneer SX-636 (restored) vs. NAD 3020 (all original)
   
  The Pioneer is brighter, by a pretty good margin, and sounds better to me using LCD-2 Rev. 2s.  The Pioneer also has a better sound stage.  That is it, short and simple.  I prefer the Pioneer.  Maybe not a fair comparison since I've not recapped the NAD.   If you had to listen to was the NAD, you'd be perfectly happy too......me thinks.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> I got around to doing this comparison today.
> 
> Pioneer SX-636 (restored) vs. NAD 3020 (all original)
> 
> The Pioneer is brighter, by a pretty good margin, and sounds better to me using LCD-2 Rev. 2s.  The Pioneer also has a better sound stage.  That is it, short and simple.  I prefer the Pioneer.  Maybe not a fair comparison since I've not recapped the NAD.   If you had to listen to was the NAD, you'd be perfectly happy too......me thinks.


 

 I thought you recapped NAD 3020. So you just upgrade some parts, but not whole recapping? Seems that dark LCD-2 is not for NAD, I also don't like Sennheiser pairing with warm amps like NAD and HK. Another question, do you remember the sound of 636 before recapping, Is it warmer than after recapping? My rebuild Luxman r-1120 is brighter than stock one(OK, I have 2 R-1120), and I don't like it. Could any burn-in session improve the sound (make it warm)?


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> . Or you might end up with 5 pairs of speakers in your listening rooms (amIright skylab? haha).




LOLOL! And that's sure true 

Getting an SX-1980 will cure any desire to buy another vintage amp or receiver, for sure. I went through about 7 or 8 of them before getting the 1980. After that the only vintage receiver I bought was...another 1980 

But I have still bought other vintage stuff...turntables, tape decks, speakers...I have a strict "one in, one out" policy, so I've parted with a lot of stuff too. Just sold my PL-50 TT...and I have a tough call to make between the B&W DM-16, Pioneer S-1010, and the Infinity Kappa 6...one pair must go...


----------



## Silent One

Twin-effects, Skylab? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm looking for a twin myself - G-22000/G-33000. And then on to a Technics SA-1000 and Marantz 2600/2500.


----------



## Skylab

If I ever saw a 2500/2600 already clad in a nice wood cabinet, I might weaken


----------



## silversurfer616

Sorry,to interrupt but as mentioned before somewhere,I have ditched my Phoenix immediately after hearing this Pioneer SX1010.
  Right now,. I still have the Audio GD NFB 17.32 DAC but should get a Havana NOS DAC by the end of the week and then I might sell the Audio GD DAC.....quite likely,actually!
  The Pioneer is used as headphone amp and phono stage ONLY.
  The turntable is Lenco L833DD.


----------



## MattTCG

Looks great to me!! Gotta love the Pioneers.


----------



## Skylab

SX-1010 is the original monster receiver. I had one for a while and thought it sounded great!


----------



## claybum

Got some LCD-3 today. Listening on the SX1010. So far so good!!!
   
  Photos don't usually do the SX1010 justice. This receiver looks so beautiful and impressive in person. Silversurfers photo does a very good job capturing this monster.


----------



## captouch

claybum said:


> Got some LCD-3 today. Listening on the SX1010. So far so good!!!
> 
> Photos don't usually do the SX1010 justice. This receiver looks so beautiful and impressive in person. Silversurfers photo does a very good job capturing this monster.




But no lights. We like to see lights.


----------



## Destroysall

Quote: 





silversurfer616 said:


> Sorry,to interrupt but as mentioned before somewhere,I have ditched my Phoenix immediately after hearing this Pioneer SX1010.
> Right now,. I still have the Audio GD NFB 17.32 DAC but should get a Havana NOS DAC by the end of the week and then I might sell the Audio GD DAC.....quite likely,actually!
> The Pioneer is used as headphone amp and phono stage ONLY.
> The turntable is Lenco L833DD.


 

 How is the amplifier with the HD800?  I've heard the HD800 through the SX-780 and it was very enriching.


----------



## silversurfer616

Had the HD800 with a WA6 and also balanced with a Phoenix but the headphone out on the SX1010 is on a different level.There's lot's of meat and bass,not to mention the holographic soundstage.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I thought you recapped NAD 3020. So you just upgrade some parts, but not whole recapping? Seems that dark LCD-2 is not for NAD, I also don't like Sennheiser pairing with warm amps like NAD and HK. Another question, do you remember the sound of 636 before recapping, Is it warmer than after recapping? My rebuild Luxman r-1120 is brighter than stock one(OK, I have 2 R-1120), and I don't like it. Could any burn-in session improve the sound (make it warm)?


 
   
  I didn't replace any caps in the NAD 3020.  Just cleaned all the controls and RCA jacks and vacuumed the dust bunnies out of it.  Also refinished the walnut end pieces.
   
  With respect to the SX-636, it was unlistenable before I recapped it and installed a bunch of new transistors.  There are three types of failure prone transistors in a 636 and one of more of them had failed.  It squealed/screeched very loudly every time I turned it on.  I am the original owner, but it had been so long since hearing it work correctly, can't comment on whether the recap made it darker or brighter.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> If I ever saw a 2500/2600 already clad in a nice wood cabinet, I might weaken


 
   
  I won't show you (again) a picture of my 2500 in its custom walnut cabinet then.


----------



## Oregonian

bmwr75 said:


> I won't show you (again) a picture of my 2500 in its custom walnut cabinet then.




Show us please! Skylab won't look!


----------



## Skylab

bmwr75 said:


> I won't show you (again) a picture of my 2500 in its custom walnut cabinet then.




I've seen it and it is BEAUTIFUL. 

Funny, as if in a dream, I woke up this morning, and here it was!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281130467495

At $9,000, though, I'm not sure I'm in.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I've seen it and it is BEAUTIFUL.
> 
> Funny, as if in a dream, I woke up this morning, and here it was!!!
> 
> ...


 

 Oh.  My.  Goodness.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Show us please! Skylab won't look!


 
   
   
  Here you go.  Cabinet by Mcintoshcabinets.com


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Here you go.  Cabinet by Mcintoshcabinets.com


 
   





 Wait, BmWr75. Is that... no... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 you have the kit... _and the kaboodle_


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Here you go.  Cabinet by Mcintoshcabinets.com


 

 Gorgeous.


----------



## claybum

For those who don't have $9000.......
   
  My last amp purchase was a recapped Kenwood 8100. The guy I bought it from has his next selection on the bay
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SA-8100-Recapped-and-Serviced-/141007026868?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item20d4ac7ab4
   
  This guy does good work, very meticulous.


----------



## Oregonian

Wonder how Matt is doing?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Thinking about you buddy......................


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





claybum said:


> For those who don't have $9000.......
> 
> My last amp purchase was a recapped Kenwood 8100. The guy I bought it from has his next selection on the bay
> 
> ...


 

 He's two hours from me.  On the off chance that I may want MORE vintage stuff I'll keep him in mind..............hmmm..........


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Wonder how Matt is doing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Looks like possibly an epic fail. Finally got a call back from batteries plus lady. She said her husband would let it go but that it was promised to a newphew...they have no children. But she doesn't know if he still wants it and is away at college. 
   
  I'm resigned not to get my hopes up now in any form or fashion.


----------



## palmfish

Oregonian is probably her nephew...


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Oregonian is probably her nephew...


 
  That's funny!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Oregonian is probably her nephew...


 

 Hey, I resemble that remark!  That 1280 is the only thing with more power than my Spec 2 if I remember right.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Hey, I resemble that remark!  That 1280 is the only thing with more power than my Spec 2 if I remember right.


 
  The Pioneer Spec were very nice, but the "Exclusive" line was their real jewel.
  The Spec line was built to a price, albeit a high one, whereas the "Exclusive" line was pretty much price is no object!
  C5 Pre-amp
   
   
   

   
  M5 Power Amp - 300 watts of pure Class A power!


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> The Pioneer Spec were very nice, but the "Exclusive" line was their real jewel.
> The Spec line was built to a price, albeit a high one, whereas the "Exclusive" line was pretty much price is no object!
> C5 Pre-amp
> 
> ...




We need the drool icon......


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> We need the drool icon......


 
  Your Spec 2 has TWO Power Meters...the M5 only has one so, in the end, YOU win!


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> Your Spec 2 has TWO Power Meters...the M5 only has one so, in the end, YOU win!




:Tim Allen voice - grunt/grunt:


----------



## DefQon

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> He's two hours from me.  On the off chance that I may want MORE vintage stuff I'll keep him in mind..............hmmm..........


 
  LOL
   
  I recall remembering that you posted in the end game rig thread with that massive vintage stack you have and that you won't be buying anything else in the near future. haha


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





defqon said:


> LOL
> 
> I recall remembering that you posted in the end game rig thread with that massive vintage stack you have and that you won't be buying anything else in the near future. haha


 
  I saw that post with those little Polk speakers and thought: "end game, yeah right!"


----------



## joehalo

Best sounding receiver I've had yet but it makes me want an SX-1250 soooo bad!!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Looks like possibly an epic fail. Finally got a call back from batteries plus lady. She said her husband would let it go but that it was promised to a newphew...they have no children. But she doesn't know if he still wants it and is away at college.
> 
> I'm resigned not to get my hopes up now in any form or fashion.


 
  Just keep texting her Dollar signs $$$$$ day and night hahah. Or.. you could offer to be one of their children..? Just a thought.  Anyways there's a couple of options for you bud. Theres always hope!
   
   
  Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Best sounding receiver I've had yet but it makes me want an SX-1250 soooo bad!!!


 
  Lovely


----------



## VIrak

I'm not that into receivers, but I love vintage amps, especially separates. Here's some of my stuff:
   
  Harman/Kardon 730
   
  Accuphase E-202 with the optional A-3 wood cabinet
   
  Kenwood Supreme 700C
  Accuphase C-222
  Accuphase C-200X
   
  Kenwood Supreme 700M
  Accuphase P-20
  SAE 2600 (I'll have to sell this one, the circuits in my new appartement are too weak)
  Yamaha PC2602
  
  Currently rockin' the C-222 and PC2602 with a pair of Yamaha NS-1000M's  But I don't dare hooking an Stax SRD-unit up to high power amps, so there's not much headphone listening.
  Got to get me an SRM-1/Mk2!


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> I saw that post with those little Polk speakers and thought: "end game, yeah right!"




Well for FREE I added a set of Klipsch KG 3.2's that do the amp justice so technically I didn't buy anything.......lol.

And full disclosure, you guys are right, are we ever truly done? Nope.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





virak said:


> I'm not that into receivers, but I love vintage amps, especially separates. Here's some of my stuff:
> 
> Harman/Kardon 730
> 
> ...


 

 Nice herds!! Please post pictures, so we can drool!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I am afraid that you won't get many feedbacks since your stuff is way out of league!!
  BTW, how could you end up with a SAE? Did they have market in Norway?? I think they are rare in US market already.


----------



## VIrak

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Nice herds!! Please post pictures, so we can drool!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I got the SAE from the Norwegian version of Craigslist, for about $250 incl. shipping, with a dead channel (fixed now).
  They did sell SAE in Norway, but units are very rare. I think I've seen 2-3 components for sale over a 7-8 year period.
  Never seen another 2600 for sale. I'll try to take some pics of my stuff.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





virak said:


> I got the SAE from the Norwegian version of Craigslist, for about $250 incl. shipping, with a dead channel (fixed now).
> They did sell SAE in Norway, but units are very rare. I think I've seen 2-3 components for sale over a 7-8 year period.
> Never seen another 2600 for sale. I'll try to take some pics of my stuff.


 
  Had a SAE 2400L for many years.  My college roomate and I used it to drive his Quad ESLs.  Feeding the amp was a DB systems pre-amp.  Best stereo in the dorms.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





virak said:


> I got the SAE from the Norwegian version of Craigslist, for about $250 incl. shipping, with a dead channel (fixed now).
> They did sell SAE in Norway, but units are very rare. I think I've seen 2-3 components for sale over a 7-8 year period.
> Never seen another 2600 for sale. I'll try to take some pics of my stuff.


 
  That beats Oregonian's Pioneer Spec rack purchase as steal of the century!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Had a SAE 2400L for many years.  My college roomate and I used it to drive his Quad ESLs.  Feeding the amp was a DB systems pre-amp.  Best stereo in the dorms.


 
  I'm trying to picture the Quads in a dorm room. No room for desks I guess


----------



## MattTCG

Lookie what I found today!!


----------



## Skylab

That could be an 880, 980, or 1080. Can't tell from that pic. Do tell!


----------



## LugBug1

Yeah I would have said 980.. It looks the same apart from Matts pic has got 3 buttons next to the hp out. All pics of 980 have only two.... I'm intrigued!


----------



## MattTCG

1*2*5*0 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Trying to negotiate a deal. He doesn't want to sell it. I've already bought the Sansui 9090db from him. Pics coming up on that. Just bought the Pioneer HMP 100 for $150...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 8 out of 10 on condition and sound incredible. 
  Somebody put the brakes on this train.


----------



## Skylab

The receiver in that pic is definitely not a 1250. Did you mean 1280? I couldn't see the heat sinks in the back so that's why I didn't guess that. The SX-1280 is an awesome receiver for sure!


----------



## LugBug1

Just googled pics of 1250 and 1280. Its defo a 1280


----------



## LugBug1

Has anyone here heard one of these little things before? 
   

 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-myth-the-Legend-that-is-the-Sansui-TU-X1-possibly-the-greatest-tuner-ever-/330950202077?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Tuners&hash=item4d0e2b52dd
   
  Buy it now price £2000 (over $3000) Its a steal!!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Has anyone here heard one of these little things before?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would love the amp that matches it, but $3000 for a TUNER?!?!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> I'm trying to picture the Quads in a dorm room. No room for desks I guess


 
   
  I was tight - but the sound was awesome!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 These are the pix I wanna see! How 'bout it, 'SpeakerBox,' any archived photographs available for the thread?


----------



## SpeakerBox

No pics of the quads.  I think my old roomate still has them though - has re-paneled them a couple of times.  They can be fragile.


----------



## mainetube

Wow!  There are some really drool-worthy pieces in this thread.  In my own modest set up, I have a Marantz 2270 and a Meridian 506 worked in, as well as a few older tube amps.
   
  I'd love to replace more pieces with great vintage gear, if time and money allow....
   
  Cheers!
   
  Frank


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry guys. It was a 1280 not a 1250. My excitement got the best of me.


----------



## MattTCG

A few quick shots of the new addition.


----------



## Silent One

MattTCG that looks yum-o!


----------



## MattTCG

Uh oh. Trouble in paradise. I need some help guys. After getting the Sansui integrated to my dac and pre-amp, I check over all the settings on the front of the receiver...I noticed that the "mono" button was engaged...I toggled it to the off position. Now there is almost no sound coming from the left channel. just some VERY slight noise coming from the left side (sounds distorted though). 
   
  Now I'm thinking that the receiver was broken when I got it and that I just didn't noticed the problem with stereo because I didn't engage that button when I was testing it.
   
  How bad is this?  Help...


----------



## Skylab

That is a classic symptom of there being a problem with the Dolby board, which as I mentioned is often a problem with that model. You can try spraying the Dolby selector switch with deoxit and repeatedly working it through its rotation. While you are at it, do the same with the stereo/mono button if you can get to it (you have to take the top off and get to the actual control mechanism with the deoxit).


----------



## MattTCG

^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I guess that I learned a painful lesson. I'll try your suggestion Skylab. I went from on top of the world to the pit of despair in about two minutes.


----------



## Skylab

Worth reading : http://audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1066850 (and the subsequent posts)


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Noted and appreciated Skylab. At your direction I've worked through all the control knobs and switches manually about a dozen or more times for each one. And what did I get for my effort? Anything change at all? Well...YES IT DID. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I now have sound coming from both channels in stereo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't often say this, but to Skylab, "I love you man." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It seems that the trick was working the dolby control knob. Once it loosened up I got sound immediately. I will follow up with deoxit.  (whew...breathes huge sigh of relief).


----------



## Skylab

Excellent! Thanks great news. Often the issue is just oxidation in the controls, especially in that problematic Dolby board.


----------



## Silent One

Whew!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Noted and appreciated Skylab. At your direction I've worked through all the control knobs and switches manually about a dozen or more times for each one. And what did I get for my effort? Anything change at all? Well...YES I DID.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had this same problem on an a receiver last week.  It worked in mono and the right channel failed in stereo.  I treated the mono/stereo switch with DeoxIt, worked it in, and all is well.  I had the same sense of relief that you are feeling now.  Congrats!


----------



## BearWant

Speaking of the sae the 2300 just showed up locally. The listing asks 500 though... Too rich for my blood


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





bearwant said:


> Speaking of the sae the 2300 just showed up locally. The listing asks 500 though... Too rich for my blood


 
  IMHO - they were overrated anyway.  When I bought the 2400L I thought I was buying the best there was - until that is I wandered into Stereo Emporium in Buffalo NY one day and was taken to school.  They were all setup with Audio Research, Levinson, and Acoustat.  From that point on I wished I had stopped there first.   The SAE was OK, but did not have the sense of refinement and detail that other high end stuff had - dare I say that some of the vintage receivers we all love are better?  Not a stretch in my opinion.


----------



## bce22

So my brother's girlfriend's father is giving me a vintage amp from the late 70s with speakers. Supposedly it's a ToTL setup from back in the day. I have no other information. I'm interested to see if we struck gold or lead. Should know within the hour. Stay tuned.... .


----------



## MattTCG

...


----------



## bce22

Yeah, I feel like that too, this all came out in the last day or so. My brother went over to his house to pick it up. 

What's interesting is that on Friday I ordered the he-500. 

I kinda feel like a have been given a lottery ticket. On the other hand never win anything


----------



## bce22

It's a realistik sta-2100d.

Any good?


----------



## joehalo

120 watts per channel I think. Monster of a receiver. You lucky dog!


----------



## bce22

Thanks! That's great to hear. I feel like I won the lottery. 

He also gave me a pair of Realistic MACH ONE 4O-4024A floor speakers and a Realistic LAB-420 turntable. All beautiful looking with the original 1978 or so owners manual.


----------



## Silent One

You mean in 2013, he couldn't beam you a mobile pix Johnny-on-the-spot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We're just teasing, bce22, that's a fantastic find and we'll wait for you!


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats!! We need pics.


----------



## bce22

Will do. My pc is out of commission do to me sleeving the PSU. Tomorrow I'll through it back together and post pics.


----------



## Oregonian

bce22 said:


> It's a realistik sta-2100d.
> 
> Any good?




Yessssssssss. Score. Free?


----------



## MattTCG

Hopefully it looks this good.


----------



## bce22

oregonian said:


> Yessssssssss. Score. Free?





Yup free! 



matttcg said:


> Hopefully it looks this good.




Truly at least that good. This guy kept the original extra fuses plus the owner manual looks Like it rolled off the press yesterday. Took huge pride of ownership. His new girlfriend just moved in and said it had to go.


----------



## MattTCG

My wife would have to go before I'd give up my Sansui...just sayin'. You should have seen her face when I went to pick up the Sansui and also came back with the Pioneer HPM 100s. She looked a lot like this.> 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  LMAO
   
  Hope she doesn't read this.


----------



## Silent One

OH MattTCG... we're gonna have to have your back one night. The moment you knock on my door in the middle of the night, I'll just gesture you to come in, no questions asked 'cause I'll know already!


----------



## MattTCG

I had to read that twice before I was sure what it meant. Yes, I may need to sleep on your couch. Three nights max, I promise.


----------



## Silent One

NOW hold on there cowboy... glad we're on the same page! Just trying to help you avert scorn.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> My wife would have to go before I'd give up my Sansui...just sayin'. You should have seen her face when I went to pick up the Sansui and also came back with the Pioneer HPM 100s. She looked a lot like this.>
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I recognize that look........just saw it recently.


----------



## 5aces

...


----------



## 5aces

oregonian said:


> > I recognize that look........just saw it recently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Thanks! That's great to hear. I feel like I won the lottery.
> 
> He also gave me a pair of* Realistic MACH ONE 4O-4024A* floor speakers and a Realistic LAB-420 turntable. All beautiful looking with the original 1978 or so owners manual.


 
   
  You are in for a pleasant surprise, my friend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  See my post in the vintage speaker thread.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> You are in for a pleasant surprise, my friend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks! I just read your post.
   
  i turned on the system last night and it was awesome! so much power! I was tired so i wasnt ready to listen critically but i am super impressed already.
   
  i did notice there is some static when pressing some of the buttons especially the low pass filter. thinking about bringing it in and the speakers for a "tune up".


----------



## MattTCG

Probably needs a treatment of deoxit on the pots and switches.


----------



## Oregonian

bce22 said:


> Thanks! I just read your post.
> 
> i turned on the system last night and it was awesome! so much power! I was tired so i wasnt ready to listen critically but i am super impressed already.
> 
> i did notice there is some static when pressing some of the buttons especially the low pass filter. thinking about bringing it in and the speakers for a "tune up".




As Matt said, likely just needs a Deoxit treatment. Google "Deoxit process" or something like that and you'll find the link on Audiokarma on how to do it. Very simple and not intimidating.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> As Matt said, likely just needs a Deoxit treatment. Google "Deoxit process" or something like that and you'll find the link on Audiokarma on how to do it. Very simple and not intimidating.


 
*The Idiot's Guide to Using DeOxit (revisited):*
   
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> *The Idiot's Guide to Using DeOxit (revisited):*
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


 
   
  Quote: 





oregonian said:


> As Matt said, likely just needs a Deoxit treatment. Google "Deoxit process" or something like that and you'll find the link on Audiokarma on how to do it. Very simple and not intimidating.


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Probably needs a treatment of deoxit on the pots and switches.


 
   
  Thanks for the links everyone!
   
  i'm defintely doing this!  i promise to take pictures to share!  For the record, these mach one speakers are pretty sick.  Tomorrow my he-500s are being delivered. It's gonna be a fun couple of weeks I think playing with this new gear!


----------



## MattTCG

Got my tuner working!! 100% functional now.


----------



## Silent One

Team Sansui


----------



## AudioDoctor

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Got my tuner working!! 100% functional now.


 
   
  Looks great!


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Thanks for the links everyone!
> 
> i'm defintely doing this!  i promise to take pictures to share!  For the record, these mach one speakers are pretty sick.  *Tomorrow my he-500s are being delivered*. It's gonna be a fun couple of weeks I think playing with this new gear!


 
   
  Oh man, those HE500s are going to sound bada$$ out of that receiver. Give it a DeOxit treatment, check for DC voltage at the speaker terminals, and you'll have one sweet headphone AND speaker rig! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  That turntable is a great one as well. Got any record stores nearby?


----------



## MattTCG

I agree with Calipilot...the he500 is a special hp as long you drive them properly. Now I don't know much about the receiver you've got, but all indications are that it should be pretty darn good. 
   
  You may have yourself quite a moment when you first listen to that setup. Enjoy!!


----------



## roadcykler

I just picked up a Kenwood KR-5400 at a local Goodwill and everything seems to work as advertised except the lights. The only one that illuminates is the red one on the end of the tuning indicator. Since none of the other lights work (4-5 of them, I think), I'm leaning toward something other than bulbs. Anyone here got any ideas or how I could check if it's something central to all the bulbs or even check them individually? I took one out and can't figure out how to remove the bulb from the holder. I didn't apply too much pulling force because I'm leery of breaking something.


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is not at all uncommon for these 70s receivers to have all the bulbs burned out.  I have seen this many times.  You may want to pop the cover and see what bulbs they are and look for replacements.  If you have a meter you can check for voltage at the socket or even check continuity through the bulb (i.e. just measure the resistance).  If you get no resistance reading the bulb is burned out.


----------



## tribestros

My bulb was burned out in my Marantz...took the cover off and easily replaced it. Except the damn clips broke, so I electrical taped it to keep it from falling backwards. Ugh.


----------



## MattTCG

Batteries and Bulbs plus is a good resource for these old bulbs. Most of them are about 6 volts, but you'll need to check.


----------



## duncan1

MattTCG is right the standard US and UK  dial light bulbs are 6.3 volts -changed thousands in old tube radios and amps . It relates back to the old industry standard for automobiles of a 6 volt battery. Some later Japanese equipment used tiny bulbs but 90 % are your standard 6.3 value.Only on live mains equipment with NO mains isolating transformer [dont buy any-dangerous ] is the value different.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> MattTCG is right the standard US and UK  dial light bulbs are 6.3 volts -changed thousands in old tube radios and amps . It relates back to the old industry standard for automobiles of a 6 volt battery. Some later Japanese equipment used tiny bulbs but 90 % are your standard 6.3 value.Only on live mains equipment with NO mains isolating transformer [dont buy any-dangerous ] is the value different.


 
   
  That is contrary to what I have found - at least in old Sherwood receivers.  Most have been 8V 150ma or 8V 300ma.  I usually have to replace with 6V and series resistor.


----------



## MattTCG

Interesting. I have worked on the Pioneers mostly.


----------



## duncan1

Speakerbox .-This is/was a US standard . Prewar UK heater voltages were 4 volts and so were the dial lights I have repaired 1000s of old tube equipment dating back to the 20s don't take my word for this visit -radio[wireless] information and repair websites of whom I post on several and  you will find I am speaking the truth. The UK "went USA" in tubes from the late 30s onward 80% of the tubes used are from the US-6-series tubes-IE- 6V6G-6K7G-6Q7G-6K8G-and 100s more. on oping up my valve[tube testers books-AVO VCM MK4- and Taylor model 45C there are long lists of 6.3V heater voltages --FAR  exceeding ANY other voltage.. The same applies to my valve[tube] equivalent books Wireless World -valve  books[used by the UK scientific community at the time]  and RSGB[radio society of GB]- a long list of war dept equivalents. most in 6.3V heaters. Even your own US book-"Modern Radio Servicing"-by Alfred a Chirardi -1st edition- which I have -copyright -1935- has a long list of 6.3 tubes- Its YOUR country that Popularized this heater voltage I thought every body dealing in tubes in the US knew this- and IF THE HEATERS   WERE -6.3 V then you can "bet your life" the DIAL lamps  were too!   I have a VERY large collection of books on tubes and spent years repairing and building tube equipment and that includes many US early books on the subject . The British used US designed parts especially after the war [WW2]  The Japanese early tube radios used the same voltage..ONLY SERIES CONNECTED tubes used different voltages because there was in 99% of the cases NO mains isolation transformer BUT a VERY big ceramic -DROPPING resistor which usually ended up cracking the Bakelite  cases with the heat they produced . Even in the UK armed services communication receivers used tubes with heaters of 6.3V into the mi-60s and I have several.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> Speakerbox .-This is/was a US standard . Prewar UK heater voltages were 4 volts and so were the dial lights I have repaired 1000s of old tube equipment dating back to the 20s don't take my word for this visit -radio[wireless] information and repair websites of whom I post on several and  you will find I am speaking the truth. The UK "went USA" in tubes from the late 30s onward 80% of the tubes used are from the US-6-series tubes-IE- 6V6G-6K7G-6Q7G-6K8G-and 100s more. on oping up my valve[tube testers books-AVO VCM MK4- and Taylor model 45C there are long lists of 6.3V heater voltages --FAR  exceeding ANY other voltage.. The same applies to my valve[tube] equivalent books Wireless World -valve  books[used by the UK scientific community at the time]  and RSGB[radio society of GB]- a long list of war dept equivalents. most in 6.3V heaters. Even your own US book-"Modern Radio Servicing"-by Alfred a Chirardi -1st edition- which I have -copyright -1935- has a long list of 6.3 tubes- Its YOUR country that Popularized this heater voltage I thought every body dealing in tubes in the US knew this- and IF THE HEATERS   WERE -6.3 V then you can "bet your life" the DIAL lamps  were too!   I have a VERY large collection of books on tubes and spent years repairing and building tube equipment and that includes many US early books on the subject . The British used US designed parts especially after the war [WW2]  The Japanese early tube radios used the same voltage..ONLY SERIES CONNECTED tubes used different voltages because there was in 99% of the cases NO mains isolation transformer BUT a VERY big ceramic -DROPPING resistor which usually ended up cracking the Bakelite  cases with the heat they produced . Even in the UK armed services communication receivers used tubes with heaters of 6.3V into the mi-60s and I have several.


 
   
  Well, I certainly beleive 6.3v is standard now - because that is all I can find.  Just say my experience is that I am running into 8v dial lamps  (fuse and bayonet style) in the old Sherwoods and a few other old units I have worked on.  So I end up converting from 8v to 6.3v when replacing.  Interesting history, though.


----------



## Trav

Guys ive been using a PICO DAC with my vintage gear and have no complaints. Im curious as to any upgrades DAC wise I might consider. Sorry if this an off kilter post here but I trust you guys on this thread. I would want USB capability as well. Budget under 700 if possible. Thanks!


----------



## duncan1

Speakerbox- The fuse/bayonet style dial lamps you speak of  "rung a bell" when I worked for BT [British telecoms] in the 60s/70s old analogue business telephone systems that was the very type used to display if a exchange line was being used or extension was in use. I changed plenty of them they were push in to a slot the only problem was removing the old ones you needed a special tool. So as they were made in very large numbers tube equipment makers  in the late 60s/70s were able to buy them in bulk cheaper than the normal 6.3V screw in kind.used previously.You could say it was an end of an ERA for the old type.


----------



## MattTCG

T





trav said:


> Guys ive been using a PICO DAC with my vintage gear and have no complaints. Im curious as to any upgrades DAC wise I might consider. Sorry if this an off kilter post here but I trust you guys on this thread. I would want USB capability as well. Budget under 700 if possible. Thanks!



Trav, I'd be looking at the bifrost with über still in your budget. Used ones here will save you money but you have to do the uber upgrade yourself. The bifrost sounds fantastic with my vintage amps. 

GL !!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very interesting Duncan1 - sounds like you have been around the block a few times with the older equipment.  I have worked as an electrical engineer and computer scientist since the 80s - so have seen my share of stuff too.  Have been an audio fanatic since I was 10 yesrs old and my uncle used to give me old tube equipment that Muzak in Toronto was going to toss.  I would peice together tube audio systems from his "junk".  Much of it old Bogen tube amps (sounded pretty good actually).


----------



## duncan1

Good to know somebody who understands what my thinking is  some don't here. Its just "built into me" to enjoy watching something broken spring back into life and I LOVE old equipment be it test or consumer use. They just don't have the build quality nowadays I love  the touch old equipment feels like. Most stuff now  is in plastic boxes that is easily broken If I dropped some of my old but good test equipment I would be more worried about damaging my foot than breaking the equipment. Its good to hear from a "kindred spirit".


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> T
> Trav, I'd be looking at the bifrost with über still in your budget. Used ones here will save you money but you have to do the uber upgrade yourself. The bifrost sounds fantastic with my vintage amps.
> 
> GL !!


 

 What's your chain look like?  All I've been doing is iPod/iPhone/iPad------>straight into vintage.  Upstairs I go laptop---->FiiO E-10----->Wharfedale speakers or Headphones.


----------



## Trav

Oregonian this DAC will be my home DAC. Sansui 881 - Pico - LT running Jplay (yes it's all it's hyped to be...brilliant!) - Dyanco A25 and or HPM 100 or both.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> Good to know somebody who understands what my thinking is  some don't here. Its just "built into me" to enjoy watching something broken spring back into life and I LOVE old equipment be it test or consumer use. They just don't have the build quality nowadays I love  the touch old equipment feels like. Most stuff now  is in plastic boxes that is easily broken If I dropped some of my old but good test equipment I would be more worried about damaging my foot than breaking the equipment. Its good to hear from a "kindred spirit".


 
   
  Yes, I think we are on the same page.  I have 1991 Jeff Rowland amps because they are built like a tank - if you dropped one of these there would be more damage to the floor than the amp.  Build quality says much more than it is just looks good - it conveys a sense one's care about the product they produce!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





trav said:


> Oregonian this DAC will be my home DAC. Sansui 881 - Pico - LT running Jplay (yes it's all it's hyped to be...brilliant!) - Dyanco A25 and or HPM 100 or both.


 

 Nice setup................those HPM speakers are highly thought of.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





trav said:


> Oregonian this DAC will be my home DAC. Sansui 881 - Pico - LT running Jplay (yes it's all it's hyped to be...brilliant!) - Dyanco A25 and or HPM 100 or both.


 
  Forgive my ignorance, but what is LT running Jplay?


----------



## palmfish

bce22 said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but what is LT running Jplay?




LT is probably referring to a laptop computer and Jplay is a software app that its maker claims makes computer audio files (WAV, FLAC, etc.) sound better.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> LT is probably referring to a laptop computer and Jplay is a software app that its maker claims makes computer audio files (WAV, FLAC, etc.) sound better.


 
  gotcha.  Thx palmfish.  it makes perfect sense now.


----------



## johnman1116

Hey guys, a quick question or two.
   
  I have a sx-525 ($65), Sherwood 7100a ($85) and a Kenwood 5700 ($99) on hold. Which one do I get? I know the Pioneer gets talked about alot and apparently the Sherwood is very good back in its day, not too sure about the Kenwood though. Just want to get some facts and opinions before I make the purchase.
   
  Also, I read some fairly negative reviews about NAD. Anyone have any experiences with that?
   
  Are the 1970's really the golden years for integrated amplifiers? Seems like everyone hates the 80s and beyond lol.


----------



## MattTCG

Just taking a quick look at those choices, it's hard to go wrong with the Pioneer. They made really quality stuff. Their models ending in 50 tend to be the better stuff IMO. 
   
  The 70's stuff does seem to be "golden years" for most of these old receivers. For all those who "threw one out" to get something new and better...


----------



## Oregonian

johnman1116 said:


> Hey guys, a quick question or two.
> 
> I have a sx-525 ($65), Sherwood 7100a ($85) and a Kenwood 5700 ($99) on hold. Which one do I get? I know the Pioneer gets talked about alot and apparently the Sherwood is very good back in its day, not too sure about the Kenwood though. Just want to get some facts and opinions before I make the purchase.
> 
> ...




I think you can't go wrong with any of them. I have two Kenwood KA-5700's, love them for headphone amps, and have a Pioneer integrated amp as well as a full blown rack system by them. All sound great. The silver faced 70's have us all in love over the 80's stuff. Some of that is the early stuff has headphone outs direct off the main amp, with only a resistor reducing power in its path to your phones. Later (and no I don't know when it started) stuff use op amps in the chain. Not as powerful, clean or sweet sounding. The 70's silver face stuff just looks awesome too.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





johnman1116 said:


> Hey guys, a quick question or two.
> 
> I have a sx-525 ($65), Sherwood 7100a ($85) and a Kenwood 5700 ($99) on hold. Which one do I get? I know the Pioneer gets talked about alot and apparently the Sherwood is very good back in its day, not too sure about the Kenwood though. Just want to get some facts and opinions before I make the purchase.
> 
> ...


 
   
  First - I agree that these are all great units, but I do have a bias towards the Sherwood units.  I use a heavily modified 7100A as a head amp right now (see an earlier post detailing what I did to it in this thread).  I also use a S-7300 (modified) in my man cave system.  In addition, I found that the S-7100A has no trouble driving large advents - which are not that efficient.  Here is a review of the unit which I have found to be very accurate:
   
http://www.epinions.com/review/Sherwood_7100A_Receiver_epi/content_506178014852?sb=1


----------



## MattTCG

lol...everyone seems to favor the unit that they own, myself included. Truth is, as mentioned by speaker box above, that they are all pretty darn good. Price and or aesthetic appeal may be your determining factor.
   
  gL!!


----------



## frank2908

Hi, I am itching for a HD800 to use along side my moded T50RP and Kef LS50 with my Sansui AU 20000. I know this is an very old topic: vintage amp with high impedance phone, *but I'm asking for you guys' impression with your HD800 and a Sansui receiver/amp*, do they sound nice? My ortho sound very good with the Sansui, but loose out to the Kef in the treble detail ( modded T50rp tend to roll off). therefore I'm looking for a headphones with more treble detail.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





frank2908 said:


> Hi, I am itching for a HD800 to use along side my moded T50RP and Kef LS50 with my Sansui AU 20000. I know this is an very old topic: vintage amp with high impedance phone, *but I'm asking for you guys' impression with your HD800 and a Sansui receiver/amp*, do they sound nice? My ortho sound very good with the Sansui, but loose out to the Kef in the treble detail ( modded T50rp tend to roll off). therefore I'm looking for a headphones with more treble detail.


 
  I've tried the HD800's with a few vintage amps (Marantz, Pioneer, Rotel, Technics) and all of them have given a sound more preferable than any headphone amp I've tried (only mid price offerings). Great treble detail without too much bite. I've read that the classic Sansui sound is warm and so I think they will be well suited because the Senn's do benefit from a little warmth. I say go for it


----------



## MattTCG

Look what I found at the pawnshop.


----------



## moodyrn

Nice!! Are you going to get it?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Look what I found at the pawnshop.


 
  The 2105 is highly regarded.  I have thought of getting one for myself at some point.


----------



## MattTCG

Trying to negotiate the Mac. He wants $600 for it. What do you guys think?


----------



## moodyrn

That's a fair price, and the good thing is ps always negotiate. So it's a good chance you can get it much lower.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Trying to negotiate the Mac. He wants $600 for it. What do you guys think?


 
  Its nice. But that's a lot of money.. Make sure you have a good listen first. Just because its a Mc doesn't mean it will sound better than your current amps through the hp out. If it is better, then maybe ask for a trade in?


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have seen the nice ones go for significantly more than $600 on Ebay.  If the glass is cracked I would say $600 is too high, though.


----------



## LugBug1

Just been doing a bit of research.. And if it is in good condition and you have the ready's, I'd say go for it! Its second generation Mcintosh SS and theres not a bad word to be said about it. If it's good cosmetically as well as fully working, then you could make a lot more on fleabay if you decide to sell.
   
  (you need to get a better camera man.. So we can inspect you're future purchases properly!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Trying to negotiate the Mac. He wants $600 for it. What do you guys think?


 

 For a headphone amp or an end game setup on your rack to enjoy forever?


----------



## MattTCG

I got him down to $550 but I passed on it. The bottom line is that I'm crazy about my Sansui. It's off the charts good. I can always go back for the Mac as I don't see him selling it soon. I walked in there for Advent speakers. He also has a nice Marantz and some Maggies.


----------



## palmfish

MacIntosh and Maggies? Thats like no pawn shop Ive ever seen!


----------



## MattTCG




----------



## captouch

matttcg said:


> Look what I found at the pawnshop.




I thought I recall you're saying awhile ago that you were done? . 

You're like most of the rest of us - it's too hard to stop looking and it'll be hard to resist picking up new pieces unless you have a lot of discipline, are out of spending $, or you've had your fill by gorging yourself. It took me over a year and close to 20 pieces of all sorts (receivers, speakers, amps, preamps, turntables) to feel like I'd acquired enough. I'm still looking, but able to resist better now.


----------



## Trav

palmfish said:


> MacIntosh and Maggies? Thats like no pawn shop Ive ever seen!


Ditto!


----------



## pixelsphotopro

sorry if i don't post are the correct place, I have an Harman Kardon PM655 Vxi, my source is an iPad connected at the headphone out and using a Flac player with EQ in it, my question is if I want to connect my iPad using a LOD cable , connected to my receiver CD input then I will loose my capacity to EQ my music and headphones at the same time, Can I have some suggestions about a external equalizer to connect to my PM655 or any other alternatives, mu goal is simply to bypass the iPad internal DAC
  Thank you
  Danie
   
  ps: I forgot to ask, what tuner should I get to go with my PM655 ?


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> It is not at all uncommon for these 70s receivers to have all the bulbs burned out.  I have seen this many times.  You may want to pop the cover and see what bulbs they are and look for replacements.  If you have a meter you can check for voltage at the socket or even check continuity through the bulb (i.e. just measure the resistance).  If you get no resistance reading the bulb is burned out.


 
  I did check the voltage getting to the bulbs and they all have about 6.8 volts so I order some LED's to replace them. I expect them early next week and am excited to see what it looks like with everything properly illuminated.


----------



## MattTCG

Are led's preferred over standard bulbs? I would guess that they'd have a less heat output and maybe give a different "glow."


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Are led's preferred over standard bulbs? I would guess that they'd have a less heat output and maybe give a different "glow."


 
   
  Yes, they last much longer.  Not a drop in though - may require resistor networks and special mounting.


----------



## moodyrn

I made my own and it took me a half of day to build and install them on my sansui. The installing was actually the hard part, especially for the power meters which required completely taking it apart to get to them. The reward was well worth of though. Not only do they put out much less heat, but as said, they last much longer and look way cool.


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a wonderful Marantz Quadraphonic 4240 receiver in Portland, OR where I dropped my Harman Kardon 670 off to get fixed. this 4240 is the best ******* thing I have ever heard in my life. The 4240 was re-capped, LED lights (I think they are too bright but still look cool) cleaned etc and on sale for $295. There is no buzz or anything totally quiet. I am not going to say where I got it because there is something else I want there and Oregonian took the one from 'Stuff' so not risking it...


----------



## harrinj

ok never mind about the LED's they actually do look better... wow...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> Picked up a wonderful Marantz Quadraphonic 4240 receiver in Portland, OR where I dropped my Harman Kardon 670 off to get fixed. this 4240 is the best ******* thing I have ever heard in my life. The 4240 was re-capped, LED lights (I think they are too bright but still look cool) cleaned etc and on sale for $295. There is no buzz or anything totally quiet. I am not going to say where I got it because there is something else I want there and Oregonian took the one from 'Stuff' so not risking it...


 
  Thats an amazing price for the Marantz, especially recapped. Congrats!
   
  Pics please


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thats an amazing price for the Marantz, especially recapped. Congrats!
> 
> Pics please


 
  I will upload pics next week definitely! Don't have my camera with me right now. I cleaned the entire thing as well and it is just B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L I did see a bunch of new caps too  it's neat to not have a buzz on phono and other inputs. I am going to learn to do it myself because my Harman Kardon 430 needs recapped really BAD.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> I will upload pics next week definitely! Don't have my camera with me right now. I cleaned the entire thing as well and it is just B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L I did see a bunch of new caps too  it's neat to not have a buzz on phono and other inputs. I am going to learn to do it myself because my Harman Kardon 430 needs recapped really BAD.


 
  Good stuff. I love the look of those quads. Plus they have two amps inside so you'll always have a back up.


----------



## shipsupt

Have you tried listening to the 4CH simulation?  How's it sound?
  Quote: 





harrinj said:


> Picked up a wonderful Marantz Quadraphonic 4240 receiver in Portland, OR where I dropped my Harman Kardon 670 off to get fixed. this 4240 is the best ******* thing I have ever heard in my life. The 4240 was re-capped, LED lights (I think they are too bright but still look cool) cleaned etc and on sale for $295. There is no buzz or anything totally quiet. I am not going to say where I got it because there is something else I want there and Oregonian took the one from 'Stuff' so not risking it...


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Picked up a wonderful Marantz Quadraphonic 4240 receiver in Portland, OR where I dropped my Harman Kardon 670 off to get fixed. this 4240 is the best ******* thing I have ever heard in my life. The 4240 was re-capped, LED lights (I think they are too bright but still look cool) cleaned etc and on sale for $295. There is no buzz or anything totally quiet. I am not going to say where I got it because there is something else I want there and Oregonian took the one from 'Stuff' so not risking it...




I'm done buying after my rack system. Audio Specialties is a great place for repair work if you need a second source (unless you already know Doug.....). His pricing is very reasonable and has a lot of good vintage gear in his shop. Bought a turntable from him as well as speakers.


----------



## Skylab

The 70's Marantz receivers were just MADE for LEDs , IMO. They look phenomenal that way. 

I am still using a 2285 in my office, and it sounds absolutely killer. It's been in that system a couple years now and I would say that it's very, very unlikely to be replaced.


----------



## Rawrbington

i still need to get some LED's for mine.  One of my dial lamps has started to turn on and off occasionally.  not really flicker but just cut off then turn back on later.  Might not be a bulb issue though.
  I used the blue LED's from the guy on ebay on a 2235b and i wasn't a big fan of the color.  But that could be due to the vellum being yellowed in that receiver. 
   
  my 2245 has been in my desk rig for a long time; it plays for hours and hours every day.  and i don't see it being replaced either.  It's my jack of all trades.  it might not have the BEST detail or the BEST sound stage or the BEST dynamics etc etc.  But its VERY good at all those things, NEVER sounds offensive and has played very nice with every headphone I've ever plugged into it.
  I can't say all of those things about any other amp I've ever owned.
   
  plus i love my FM radio in the mornings.
   
   
   
  EDIT:
 Who's buying this dainty thing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARANTZ-MODEL-2600-AM-FM-STEREO-RECEIVER-CABINET-DLB-1-MINT-AND-FULLY-RESTORED-/281130467495?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4174ae80a7


----------



## Skylab

I WANT that 2600, of course. But at $9k, ain't happening.


----------



## Oregonian

Had a buddy give me a mint Realistic STA-64B from his grandmothers estate. Not awesome but literally mint and free. Came with a MCS turntable, Realistic dual tape deck and get this - Sansui S-1500 towers. 

I forced $40 on him. The receiver is going to my work office and with a Scoche line out converter will play through my killer Altec Lansing powered speakers with sub and be on headphone duty when I can grab some phone time. In my job can't do that much but I DO listen to Pandora almost all day thru speakers.


----------



## MattTCG

Very nice!! I'll be interested to hear what you think of the speakers.


----------



## Oregonian

Through my Pioneer rack system they sound a little brighter than my Klipsch KG 3.2's but definitely thump. Did some A/B ing - close but prefer the Klipsch's. May keep them as "B" speakers and turn them all on when the mood strikes. 

Definitely are very good sounding and mint as well.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Through my Pioneer rack system they sound a little brighter than my Klipsch KG 3.2's but definitely thump. Did some A/B ing - close but prefer the Klipsch's. May keep them as "B" speakers and turn them all on when the mood strikes.
> 
> Definitely are very good sounding and mint as well


 
   
  The Realistic tuner...............


----------



## bce22

So as promised I wanted to share with you some pictures of the Realistic STA-2100D from 1978 that was given to me last week.  It also came with the Realistic Mach One speakers (if interested I posted pictures in the Vintage Speakers thread) which are pretty sweet.
   
  I think this receiver is absolutely awesome!  Its got gobs and gobs of power!  Looks great and has a nice neutral/slightly warm sound.  I am so happy to have it!
   
  I decided to use Howards Restor-A-Finish and Feed-and-Wax on the speaker cabinets and decided the wood on the Realistic could use some lovin' too.  The daughter of the previous owner stuck a sticker near the phones jack decades ago and I used some goo gone to remove it.
   
  Here are some pictures from before the work and some from after.
   
  I hope you enjoy!


----------



## moodyrn

Very nice!!


----------



## Silent One

_So... v-e-r-y  s-e-x-y ! _


----------



## bce22

Thanks guys!
   
  Pics don't do this piece justice.  Its beautiful.  It's only been a week but its time to get it a friend (ie Sansui or Pioneer).
   
  Oh by the way, I'm using my little Project Sunrise II as a pre-amp and its pretty sick!!!!  Got some nice Mullard, Amperex and Siemens tubes!


----------



## MattTCG

You'll get both camps on the choice of receiver. All I can say is that the Sansui 9090db is the best I've heard.


----------



## moodyrn

I can't argue with that.


----------



## ssrock64

Sorry if I'm interrupting a conversation (I've never kept much track of this thread), but I came across some vintage gear at a local shop that I'd like to get somebody's opinion on. It's a combination of two late-60's or early-70's Dynaco SS products, the PAT-4 receiver/pre-amp and the ST-120 speaker amp. I was actually in the audio shop to look at more modern receivers because I have an old Sony that's starting to glitch out, but when I plugged my Mad Dogs into the PAT-4 I fell in love. It's technically not superior to or more revealing than any of the other gear I tried at the store (except for a too-warm Kenwood pre-amp), but its sound signature really jives with the MDs in a way I wasn't expecting.
   
  There are a few issues I see with the PAT-4 and ST-120, though. The former drove the MDs to a reasonable listening level at just past twelve-o-clock, which makes it seem like it should have more power. Is this true, or was I just spoiled by the power of the modern receivers I'd been trying before auditioning the PAT-4? Also, I'm worried that the ST-120 may need some monetary input to modernize its power supply a bit (a common mod, I'm told), and that such input may not be worth it because it tends not to jive well in a lot of speaker pairings. I'd like to know before buying whether they'd be a decent match for my Mission 441s.
   
  Does anybody have experience with either of the two and can give some insight?
   
  Here's a few photos for reference (not mine, obviously):
   
*PAT-4*

   
   
*ST-120*

   
   
  Thank you to anyone who can give advice, encouragement, or even a laugh!


----------



## djcarpentier

Just thought i'd chime in with some exploring i've done. I have been reading as much of this thread as i can and looking for a good deal on a local vintage amp. Personally, i am only looking for the headphone aspect of old amps. Was hoping to get some he-6's soon as well as make my q701's sing. So far so good.

Earlier today i picked up a Sansui AU-4900 for $50. Pretty good deal i think. I'll need to clean the pots as they are audibly scratchy when you turn them, and the L/R balance can shift a bit. Running an Asus STX out of my computer to the Sansui and using the headphone out. Very impressed so far. I have been a/b ing the STX headphone out against the Sansui and they are very close. The Sansui seems to be a bit warmer or fuller sounding. Maybe not as clinical, but i think that may be due to the slightly more bass of the Sansui. A very enjoyable $50 i've spent. I think it might have enough juice to run the he-6's to close to their full potential. 

That being said, i am actually very impressed by what the STX pumps out. Definitely not bass heavy, but very accurate and neutral. Curious as to what the Sansui would make other more high end headphones sound like. Specifically the hd800. Just need to get some cash saved up and do some testing 

Anyway, if anyone else can add to what i've said i'd appreciate it. Other headphones you've tested with different amps, etc. Any planar testing info would be greatly appreciated. Looking at the he-6's, as i've said, and also the lcd's. If these can be well powered by old amps then the headphone amp companies would seem to have some serious competition.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I'm done buying after my rack system. Audio Specialties is a great place for repair work if you need a second source (unless you already know Doug.....). His pricing is very reasonable and has a lot of good vintage gear in his shop. Bought a turntable from him as well as speakers.


 
  I will not confirm that that was the place nor will I deny it.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I will not confirm that that was the place nor will I deny it.




No problem bud. I have no intention of buying anything from Doug in the near future so you're safe.


----------



## Skylab

ssrock64 said:


> Sorry if I'm interrupting a conversation (I've never kept much track of this thread), but I came across some vintage gear at a local shop that I'd like to get somebody's opinion on. It's a combination of two late-60's or early-70's Dynaco SS products, the PAT-4 receiver/pre-amp and the ST-120 speaker amp. I was actually in the audio shop to look at more modern receivers because I have an old Sony that's starting to glitch out, but when I plugged my Mad Dogs into the PAT-4 I fell in love. It's technically not superior to or more revealing than any of the other gear I tried at the store (except for a too-warm Kenwood pre-amp), but its sound signature really jives with the MDs in a way I wasn't expecting.
> 
> There are a few issues I see with the PAT-4 and ST-120, though. The former drove the MDs to a reasonable listening level at just past twelve-o-clock, which makes it seem like it should have more power. Is this true, or was I just spoiled by the power of the modern receivers I'd been trying before auditioning the PAT-4? Also, I'm worried that the ST-120 may need some monetary input to modernize its power supply a bit (a common mod, I'm told), and that such input may not be worth it because it tends not to jive well in a lot of speaker pairings. I'd like to know before buying whether they'd be a decent match for my Mission 441s.
> 
> ...




I've owned a BUNCH of Dyna gear over the years, though mostly the tube stuff. I even had a ST-120. Not a bad power amp for very early solid state.

I've never owned a PAT-4. I had a PAT-5 which was quite zippy/sizzly sounding, kind of the worst of early solid state, I felt. But LOTS of people will mod these into very nice sounding units.

The PAT-4 likely doesn't have a lot of juice to its headphone out since its a preamp. Unlike vintage integrateds or receivers, the PAT-4 doesn't have a power amp stage to drive headphones. But it will probably drive high sensitivity headphones well.


----------



## LugBug1

Won this Sony for £23


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Won this Sony for £23


 
  That's only $1.00 per lbs!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> That's only $1.00 per lbs!


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> No problem bud. I have no intention of buying anything from Doug in the near future so you're safe.


 
  LOL I want that Kenwood KA-7100 amp for my KT-8300. I need to take the Marantz 4240 back to him because when I brought it home that day I saw that the dial pointer was broken off in there, someone had super glued it in the past. I wonder if he even noticed :/ I HOPE it is not unobtainium or he has an extra around...


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> LOL I want that Kenwood KA-7100 amp for my KT-8300. I need to take the Marantz 4240 back to him because when I brought it home that day I saw that the dial pointer was broken off in there, someone had super glued it in the past. I wonder if he even noticed :/ I HOPE it is not unobtainium or he has an extra around...




I'll be there tomorrow evening. Unfortunately the Spec 2 amp he fixed isn't quite fixed. Have a left channel noise issue after amp warms up. He did put in nice LED's on the power meters so that part is good. That thing weighs 60 lbs so not thrilled about lugging it around yet again. And it was sounding so sweet.......:mad:


----------



## shipsupt

I guess I've got a little project (like I need another one).  I was listening to some vinyl through the SX-950 and after a side finished I noticed a little hum, something I noticed before seemed to be correctable if I adjusted the RCA's from the phono on the back of the receiver.  It was something I planned to chase down to make a permanent fix when i had a chance.
   
  I touched, them noticed a change in that hum, and then snap the SX-950 shut down, DOA.  I think I noticed a little flash from where the power cord enters, so I'm thinking a fuse went back there, but the question is WHY?  
   
  Too late to start digging into it tonight... I'll pop it open after work this week and see what I can see.


----------



## MattTCG

Best of luck with the 950. That's a beast of an amp and worth as much as it takes to fix it.


----------



## Skylab

Well a fuse would be an easy fix. Not sure what happened there but the best case would be that after replacement it works as normal.
   
  Relative to the hum, is it the same level at all volumes? Or does it increase with volume? If the latter, then this may not be any "problem" - some hum with phono is pretty common, although it should be unnoticeable when music is playing if it's the relatively normal kind.
   
  But if it's audible at all volumes it may be something worse.  Try a new set of cables if your TT allows.


----------



## shipsupt

The hum goes up and down with volume and was pretty low level, what I'd consider normal, not noticeable with music so I wasn't too worried about it, but a jiggle of the cables at the RCA's caused it get better and worse.  They are the original cables on the TT from the early 70's so I think they are due for replacement.  Not a simple plug and play, but should be too bad a DIY project.
   
  I'll keep you posted on what I find.  
   
  It's kind of funny that I normally think of the SX-950 as a rock solid, reliable machine considering it's age!


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> The hum goes up and down with volume and was pretty low level, what I'd consider normal, not noticeable with music so I wasn't too worried about it, but a jiggle of the cables at the RCA's caused it get better and worse.  They are the original cables on the TT from the early 70's so I think they are due for replacement.  Not a simple plug and play, but should be too bad a DIY project.
> 
> I'll keep you posted on what I find.
> 
> It's kind of funny that I normally think of the SX-950 as a rock solid, reliable machine considering it's age!


 
   
  The "jiggling" of the cables might actually just have been your changing the grounding scheme by touching them  And the fuse perhaps blew because the jiggling caused a short, although it's not clear to me how.
   
  Anyway hopefully the fuse will be all you need.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I'll be there tomorrow evening. Unfortunately the Spec 2 amp he fixed isn't quite fixed. Have a left channel noise issue after amp warms up. He did put in nice LED's on the power meters so that part is good. That thing weighs 60 lbs so not thrilled about lugging it around yet again. And it was sounding so sweet.......


 
  hey Oregonian, can you by any chance when you go there look at that Kenwood Amp and tell me what model it is? I stupidly didnt look. I don't know if it was the KA-7100 or not or 8100


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> hey Oregonian, can you by any chance when you go there look at that Kenwood Amp and tell me what model it is? I stupidly didnt look. I don't know if it was the KA-7100 or not or 8100


 

 If I went I'd be happy to do it for you!  Fortunately for NOW the amp is not acting up any more?!?!?!  I think it was a bad RCA cable.  Swapped it out and put it through its paces last night and never got fuzzy again.  I'll keep in touch - if it happens and I have to go down there I'll check it out for you, ok?


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> If I went I'd be happy to do it for you!  Fortunately for NOW the amp is not acting up any more?!?!?!  I think it was a bad RCA cable.  Swapped it out and put it through its paces last night and never got fuzzy again.  I'll keep in touch - if it happens and I have to go down there I'll check it out for you, ok?


 
  well I am going there tomorrow anyways. however with my luck someone probably bought it.... lol :/


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> well I am going there tomorrow anyways. however with my luck someone probably bought it.... lol :/


 
  Aye, you need the luck of the Oregonian!


----------



## harrinj

parbaked said:


> Aye, you need the luck of the Oregonian!


 I suppose so... I suppose so XD I have no money anyways, I'm just happy I found a quad receiver and can't wait to get home and hook it up to four speakers of course I will need to purchase a USB 5.1 card but have yet been able to find a good one. Unless its got to stay at the repair place for him to fix the tuner dial :/ does anyone know of a good USB 5.1 card? I've only been able to find (a decent one) Creative X-Fi card on amazon but I am not sure if its got the two RCA out and one 3.5mm stereo out or if its just that single wire matrixed crap because there's two models of it, the one with discrete outs (two RCA and the stereo 3.5mm out) and one with just the single 5.1 output


----------



## Trav

Probably going to go to the CAS next month, any others?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I wish.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys, just a heads up for you all. The guy that I bought my Sansui 9090db from is selling off more stuff!! The most intriguing is a Pioneer sx-1050. I saw and heard it. A fair assessment is that it's in the best condition of any sx-1050 that I've seen and that includes ebay. If I didn't love my Sansui so much, I'd jump on this. 
   
  The problem is that the guy knows what it's worth. He wants $650 and is in the TN area. If anyone is interested just PM and I'll pass on the info.


----------



## Silent One

I recently tripped over a SX-1250 for $650! As I stood up and gathered myself...:
   
  Owner: Sir, are you okay?
  SO:       Yes sir! Thanks or asking. How's your Pioneer, is it okay?
  Owner:  Still looks and plays like 1976!
   
  And before I could utter another word - or sound - I realized I was broke. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 And someone would own it by the time I came back with the money.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I recently tripped over a SX-1250 for $650! As I stood up and gathered myself...:
> 
> Owner: Sir, are you okay?
> SO:       Yes sir! Thanks or asking. How's your Pioneer, is it okay?
> ...


 
   
  The 1250 is the one I am on the prowl for - mainly because of the build quality.  But, I too seem to have a shortage of funds at this time.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> The 1250 is the one I am on the prowl for - mainly because of the build quality.  But, I too seem to have a shortage of funds at this time.


 
   
  Before reading this thread, I noticed great deals & steals ALL the time but I was only interested in building up my headphone rig. And no, I didn't put 2 & 2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 together. It took my neighbor and fellow member 'shipsupt' to bring home a silver-faced SX-650. 
   
I saw his iron, started following his accounts of different cans he plugged-in. Then came my following his interest in this thread, which soon became my own. I'm still kickin' and screamin' at some of the monster amps I walked by with indifference.


----------



## shipsupt

Don't blame me for that monster you now own!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  The 650 was my gateway, and the 950 has been a suitable upgrade for me.  "Luckily" being in the UK has kept me from continuing down this dangerous road you all travel... but on my return it will be hard not to start to look again.


----------



## shipsupt

Ok, so I opened the 950 tonight and to my "delight" I found a blown fuse at the mains.  It looks to be a 6A 250V.  I don't have one that large in my stash, so I'll have to grab one, but glad to see it should be an easy fix.
   
  I only hope that the cause was my old RCA's from the Hydraulic Reference turntable.  Speaking of, I removed the tonearm last night and I'm sending it to be completely refurbished at http://www.smetonearms.com in Canada.  I thought of taking on the project myself, but for the money they can do a much better job of it and it will be like new when it gets back to me.  They'll get rid of that silly DIN connector on the 3009 pedestal and leave me with fresh new wiring from cartridge to RCA's in addition to the full refurbishment of the mechanical parts.
   
  Here is the bottom of the 950 opened up:
   

   
  And the blown fuses right where the mains enter the chassis:


----------



## harrinj

Oregonian. I got the KA-7100 a little bit ago at the audio specialties place. It was a 7100. I'm glad I got the matching amp for my KT-8300 now


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





shipsupt said:


> *Don't blame me for that monster you now own! *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I do... but, only in the manner one would trace 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 footsteps. Perhaps, your next L.A. visit, you can "spin the dial" and "flip the switches" and all the other playful things on the undersized
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sansui. 
   
  Glad you met only a blown fuse! And watch your fingers and toes, that iron looks _heavy._


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> Oregonian. I got the KA-7100 a little bit ago at the audio specialties place. It was a 7100. I'm glad I got the matching amp for my KT-8300 now


 

 Awesome!  Congrats to ya!


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

So I can get a fully repaired/restored SX-535 for 170 euros total. The SX-535 itself cost 60 euros.

What does head-fi think? Am I spending too much on repairs for an amp that might not be worth the repair?


----------



## bce22

So now that i have the beautiful Klipsch Cornwall I's Playing with the Realistic I find it a little bright with certain music, like live rock, and im thinking a vintage Sansui migt be the ticket (without having to go to tubes)

I originally was thinking the au-717 (which goes for $300-400 on the Bay), but i found someone local selling a G-6000 for under $200 and am now considering it. Anyone have familiarity with either or that can offer an opinion? i want that classic Sansui warmth to tame my horns.

Thanks


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> So now that i have the beautiful Klipsch Cornwall I's Playing with the Realistic I find it a little bright with certain music, like live rock, and im thinking a vintage Sansui migt be the ticket (without having to go to tubes)
> 
> I originally was thinking the au-717 (which goes for $300-400 on the Bay), but i found someone local selling a G-6000 for under $200 and am now considering it. Anyone have familiarity with either or that can offer an opinion? i want that classic Sansui warmth to tame my horns.
> 
> Thanks


 
  Sansuii's or a vintage Kenwood. If you're looking for a monster, a KR9600 can be had for about $400, or a model Eleven for maybe $300.
   
  Side note - I made the mistake the other day of jinxing it by telling my wife I was in a really happy place with my main audio setup (SX-1980 with 2 each XR-14, XR-16 McIntosh speakers). Not even an hour later I heard a great loud snap and saw a flash of light and a trickle of smoke come out of the SX-1980. Right over an unobtanium output transistor. I unplugged it and opened it up to take a look, pulled out some dust bunnies and hesitantly turned it back on since I didn't see any obvious damage. AANd it worked perfectly, thank frikkin' goodness. Anyways, I took it in to the shop to figure out what the heck happened. Long story short, it was just a slightly loose and under-insulated high rail supply wire arcing to ground on the metal cover of the output transistor. It was re-insulated and cleaned up, good as new.


----------



## bce22

Wow, that is scary. I'm glad it was not a big deal.

I don't need a monster. I want some 70's Solid State warmth to tame the forward and sometimes shrill horns on my cornwalls. They are really efficient so wattage is secondary.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Wow, that is scary. I'm glad it was not a big deal.
> 
> I don't need a monster. I want some 70's Solid State warmth to tame the forward and sometimes shrill horns on my cornwalls. They are really efficient so wattage is secondary.


 
   
   
  Pioneer SA-7100 (1974) is my favorite simple low power amp.
   

   
   
  Sounds great like it's big brothers but less frills and stuff inside.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Pioneer SA-7100 (1974) is my favorite simple low power amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I've got it's brother...................the SA-7500 MKII..................lovely little amp!   It's being earmarked for my garage system.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I've got it's brother...................the SA-7500 MKII..................lovely little amp!   It's being earmarked for my garage system.


 
  Poor kid, kicked to garage by your Spec rack!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Poor kid, kicked to garage by your Spec rack!


 

 LOL................tho true!  The garage is a cool hangout to be sure!


----------



## ssrock64

I should've listened when doing research on the ST-120. Though I bought the Dynaco PAT-4/ST-120 combo discussed a few pages back mostly for headphone listening through the PAT-4, I really liked how the ST-120 made my Missions sound.
   
  But woudn't you know, the moment I attempted to start my second listening session of the day the ST-120 decides to go into crazy-overpower mode and now is busy vibrating and humming all over my desk. It made the dreaded POP through the Missions, and now those Missions aren't saying anything at all. I hope that I just blew the ST-120 and not the speakers, though I wouldn't be surprised if I've destroyed both.
   
  EDIT: I've isolated the problem to the ST-120. I'm not good with electronics, so can anyone give pointers on what the problem likely is?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> So now that i have the beautiful Klipsch Cornwall I's Playing with the Realistic I find it a little bright with certain music, like live rock, and im thinking a vintage Sansui migt be the ticket (without having to go to tubes)
> 
> I originally was thinking the au-717 (which goes for $300-400 on the Bay), but i found someone local selling a G-6000 for under $200 and am now considering it. Anyone have familiarity with either or that can offer an opinion? i want that classic Sansui warmth to tame my horns.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  If you are not particular into Sansui brand,  looking (showcase), silverface, woodcase, or some other  reasons., and you want to tame the bright of horn.
  Go for http://providence.craigslist.org/ele/3899064247.html
  (Beware, if you want to pair dark sound cans (like Senheiser) with HK, they sound terrible.)
  Basically, you want warm sound to tame horn, so you want
  Marantz, Harman Kardon
  Sansui models earlier than 9090, and au-717 may feel analytic on horn too, so au-9900 or earlier.
  Pioneer SX-1010 earlier or SA-9100 earlier.
  Kenwood (I don't know Kr-9600, but my Kr-9400 did job)
  Nad will alwas do the job too
  Of course tube.
   
If you enjoy a lot of rock, go to buy http://providence.craigslist.org/ele/3925519913.html and thank me later. (BTW, they are Polk SDA-1a, but need repair) I am not saying Cornwall is bad, (they are wonderful speakers), they just don't sound fun on rock. JBL and Polk are fun with rock.(I don't like little aggressive (fatigue) sound of Polk, so I didn't go for those Polk.)
   
  Edit...
  I am not affiliated with those sellers, I don't know them either.
   
  Edit 2....
  Never mind Polk SDA-1a, it requires a lot of power, and I think it only shines  when driven by at least 150wpc power amp, And it's 4ohm load speaker


----------



## moodyrn

As a previous owner, I would scratch both of the pioneers of the list. They are slightly warm, but even the 9090 is much warmer. The same goes for the kenwoods, though they are a little warmer than the pioneers. The sx1010 as great as it is, was a bad match for every klipsch I've ever thrown at it. The kenwoods do play nice with klipsch though but ones mentioned are way too much overkill. They only need about 5 watts to have the neighbors complaining.. But as far as brands go, I would stick with sansui, harman kardon, and marantz. The cornwalls are just heavenly once paired with the right amp. 

Most swear by tube amps with those, but to me the bass can have too much bloom with tube amps, and I prefer warm sounding solid state amps with mine. But as always ymmv.


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

So my post got buried, so I'm asking again:

I can get a fully repaired/restored SX-535 for 170 euros total. The SX-535 itself cost 60 euros.

Is the amp and the repair worth the money? Am I spending too much on repairs for an amp that might not be worth the repair?


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





scroogemcduck said:


> So my post got buried, so I'm asking again:
> 
> I can get a fully repaired/restored SX-535 for 170 euros total. The SX-535 itself cost 60 euros.
> 
> Is the amp and the repair worth the money? Am I spending too much on repairs for an amp that might not be worth the repair?


 
  If it was re-capped, that would be a good deal, otherwise I'd pass.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scroogemcduck said:


> So my post got buried, so I'm asking again:
> 
> I can get a fully repaired/restored SX-535 for 170 euros total. The SX-535 itself cost 60 euros.
> 
> Is the amp and the repair worth the money? Am I spending too much on repairs for an amp that might not be worth the repair?


 

 IMHO.
   
  Not worth your hard earned money. Get at least second to TOTL and restore them. Do you really want Pioneer? If I were in EU, I would like to buy a Rotel.


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

phoenixg said:


> If it was re-capped, that would be a good deal, otherwise I'd pass.




Yes it would be fully recapped and cleaned by an expert.


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

meewoo said:


> IMHO.
> 
> Not worth your hard earned money. Get at least second to TOTL and restore them. Do you really want Pioneer? If I were in EU, I would like to buy a Rotel.




Well here in the Netherlands there aren't many second to top of the line vintage amps for sale. Lots of Marantz 2216, Pioneer SX-450, Marantz 2226 and of course a couple SX-535.

What's so special about rotel?


----------



## Trav

Scrooge, any decent Tandbergs pop up over there?


----------



## Meewoo

I think Rotel is more common in EU, so bang for the buck. Yes, tandberg is very good too, those 2 are overlooked!


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

meewoo said:


> I think Rotel is more common in EU, so bang for the buck. Yes, tandberg is very good too, those 2 are overlooked!




Okay I found a couple "rotels"


RX-402 for 50 euros
RX-602 bids, no one has bid yet
RX-402 for 100 euros
RA-713 for 75 euros
RX 402 for 100 euros

Let me know which one


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scroogemcduck said:


> Okay I found a couple "rotels"
> 
> 
> RX-402 for 50 euros
> ...


 

 Sorry, mate, those prices seem high for me. Just don't bother.
  If you can find price like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROTEL-Stereo-receiver-RX-803-Power-500-WATT-/251298225205?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Stereo_Receivers&hash=item3a828a9c35
  then we talk about bang for the buck. I just don't know why the price is so high in NE.


----------



## captouch

Getting in a Marantz 1060 later this afternoon.

It'll be the first Marantz I've tried or heard, so looking forward to that. Am thinking about possibly using it as a preamp into a HK 730, as I've heard the pre is the weaker part of the 730 (compared to the amp).

Or it may replace my Yamaha CR-220 for backup headphone amp duties. We'll see, depends on how it sounds compared to the other pieces.


----------



## Skylab

ssrock64 said:


> I should've listened when doing research on the ST-120. Though I bought the Dynaco PAT-4/ST-120 combo discussed a few pages back mostly for headphone listening through the PAT-4, I really liked how the ST-120 made my Missions sound.
> 
> But woudn't you know, the moment I attempted to start my second listening session of the day the ST-120 decides to go into crazy-overpower mode and now is busy vibrating and humming all over my desk. It made the dreaded POP through the Missions, and now those Missions aren't saying anything at all. I hope that I just blew the ST-120 and not the speakers, though I wouldn't be surprised if I've destroyed both.
> 
> EDIT: I've isolated the problem to the ST-120. I'm not good with electronics, so can anyone give pointers on what the problem likely is?




With an amp that old, it could be any number of things. IMHO, the ST-120 isn't a good enough amp to spend a lot of money fixing. Now if you had a Dyna Stereo 150, that was a much nicer amp. But a stock 120 was really kind of thin/bright/etched, sort of the worst of early solid state.

One of the reason there is so much love for mid-late 70's vintage solid state is that this represents a period of time where the woes of early solid state had been addressed in most respects and in fact many SS amps/receivers from this era were actually quite on the warm side.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





scroogemcduck said:


> Well here in the Netherlands there aren't many second to top of the line vintage amps for sale. Lots of Marantz 2216, Pioneer SX-450, Marantz 2226 and of course a couple SX-535.
> 
> What's so special about rotel?


 
  I'd personally go for Pioneer or Marantz. I have a Marantz 2216b and Pioneer sx550 and they both wipe the floor of my Rotel RA 712... 
   
  Horses for courses, but if you can get near to 150 euros for a 2216, 2226 then go for it. About 50-100-120 euros for SX450 550 650 for good condition.
   
  Both my Marantz and Pioneer have a warm yet detailed sound that is very forgiving. I also wouldn't assume that they will need recapping. I would only do this if absolutely needed. Caps are very cheap and electricians can make a mint servicing amps that don't really need it


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

meewoo said:


> Sorry, mate, those prices seem high for me. Just don't bother.
> If you can find price like http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROTEL-Stereo-receiver-RX-803-Power-500-WATT-/251298225205?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Stereo_Receivers&hash=item3a828a9c35
> then we talk about bang for the buck. I just don't know why the price is so high in NE.





I found the RX-802 for 60 euros. Does the RX-802 come close to RX-803? What are the differences?


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





scroogemcduck said:


> I found the RX-802 for 60 euros. Does the RX-802 come close to RX-803? What are the differences?


 
  They are very different:
  google is your friend: 
  http://thestereoclub.blogspot.com/2008/06/rotel-rx-802-receiver.html
  http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/rotel.html
  http://www.hifi-studio.de/hifi-klassiker/rotel.htm (2/3 down the page you will see pics and specs of both 802 and 803.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'd personally go for Pioneer or Marantz. I have a Marantz 2216b and Pioneer sx550 and they both wipe the floor of my Rotel RA 712...
> 
> Horses for courses, but if you can get near to 150 euros for a 2216, 2226 then go for it. About 50-100-120 euros for SX450 550 650 for good condition.
> 
> Both my Marantz and Pioneer have a warm yet detailed sound that is very forgiving. I also wouldn't assume that they will need recapping. I would only do this if absolutely needed. Caps are very cheap and electricians can make a mint servicing amps that don't really need it


 
   
  Quality caps are not exactly cheap.  In fact they can be rather expensive.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Quality caps are not exactly cheap.  In fact they can be rather expensive.  Just my 2 cents.


 
  Hear what you are saying, but if you hand your amp/receiver into get serviced... Are you guaranteed to get quality caps unless you specify before hand? I'm just being devils ad for noobs


----------



## SpeakerBox

You are correct - you need to be going to a quality service outfit to make sure you get quality stuff.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> You are correct - you need to be going to a quality service outfit to make sure you get quality stuff.


 
  BYOC = BuyYour Own Caps!


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Awesome!  Congrats to ya!


 
  It is a wonderful amp, very spacious, clear and it makes my headphones really vibrate!


----------



## ScroogeMcDuck

parbaked said:


> They are very different:
> google is your friend:
> http://thestereoclub.blogspot.com/2008/06/rotel-rx-802-receiver.html
> http://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/rotel.html
> http://www.hifi-studio.de/hifi-klassiker/rotel.htm (2/3 down the page you will see pics and specs of both 802 and 803.




So I guess the RX-802 is not worth the money?

I found something else: A pioneer SX-750 taking bids, the highest bid currently is 40 euros and the seller says the lights don't work and the amp has a slight buzz in the sound.
Would that be fixable?


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> It is a wonderful amp, very spacious, clear and it makes my headphones really vibrate!


 

 Was in to drop my Spec 2 amp off to Doug after all - the scratchiness came back and it's just not right so he's on it.  Saw this while I was in today...............and thought of ya.
   

   
  Nice.................


----------



## LugBug1

Been doing a bit of A/Bing with my Pioneer SX550 and Marantz 2216a tonight trying to decide the winner... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I love the sound out of both with the hd800's, but the Pioneer has that certain something... It's the warmth mixed with great detail, hard to explain but it just sounds soo musical! Kind of like smooth milk chocolate. The marantz has the warmth as well, but is more mid-centric and richer sounding. Maybe chocolate with raisins in..? It's also a little more closer sounding. More in your face. But its the smoothnesss that is instantly more likeable to me with the pioneer.. Maybe playing better with the hd800's ?  
  The pioneer seems to have looser bass.. But it extends more. More sub bass. The marantz has more mid bass and has a little more punch and authority. Both amps have amazing treble, both sweet. But the nod goes to the pioneer for having less edge, where as the marantz shows a little hardness with raw recordings. However, the pioneer is a fraction 'brighter' at the top.
  Its very close though... I'd be happy with either as a long time keeper. I used my Dacmagic for comparison because its the most neutral dac I own.
   
  in a nutshell ; the Pioneer is more refined, smooth and dynamic (boring to some!). The Marantz more engaging and richer (fun?).  My music preference is for classical and jazz so that's maybe why I prefer the former. The latter is probably better for rock. dunno? 
   
  Not much of a review, but I tend to find in general the more you think about it the more you let your mind wander too much and stray from what you actually heard... So short and sweet and let the things you instantly notice stay apparent!  
   
  Just thought I'd share this as they are both in the same price bracket.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Been doing a bit of A/Bing with my Pioneer SX550 and Marantz 2216a tonight trying to decide the winner...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Keeping both?  Do you have a couple of listening stations?  I have 5 now.  I am addicted to vintage audio.


----------



## Oregonian

Guys,
   
  The ONE thing about vintage audio that is less than optimal is the lack of remote control (for us lazy folks like me - the rest of you can carry on).
   
  I found a solution at least for playing iDevices.  Audioengine has a W2 system for $49 (with a receiver and sender combo) that plugs into the bottom of your iPod/iPad/iPhone and transmits to the receiver unit that is plugged into the wall as well as into your vintage receiver (in my case the Aux 2 RCA ports).  The sender allows you to hold your iDevice near to you, pick songs/playlists/Pandora or whatever and not only change stations/songs, etc, but YOU control the volume with your iDevice.  So you set your stereo to the peak volume you'd want it to play at and throttle down the iPod volume as your mood or the song dictates.
   
  Anyone try this yet?  I've got two of them - one in my Pioneer rack system and one downstairs by my recliner at my main listening station. 
   
  Hope this helps someone!  It works great!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Keeping both?  Do you have a couple of listening stations?  I have 5 now.  I am addicted to vintage audio.


 
  Yeah keeping both  
   
  You have 5 listening stations?? How many rooms do you have!  
   
  I've always had two set ups, one in my living room and one bedside. But I'm constantly changing things around... I have 3 vintage amps that I'm happy with and 3 current dacs to play with at the mo... as well as 2 amps ready to be collected sitting on my dinner table (sold).


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah keeping both
> 
> You have 5 listening stations?? How many rooms do you have!
> 
> I've always had two set ups, one in my living room and one bedside. But I'm constantly changing things around... I have 3 vintage amps that I'm happy with and 3 current dacs to play with at the mo... as well as 2 amps ready to be collected sitting on my dinner table (sold).


 

 Home office has the Pioneer Spec 1/2 rack system and a Kenwood KA-5700 driving off my computer (call it two separate areas), garage, office at work, family room has a dedicated headphone amp in the form of my second Kenwood KA-5700 integrated just for headphone listening.  And I have a spare SA-7500 MKII that I'm not quite sure yet where to use it.   This bug, when it bites you, injects deep into the core of my being.


----------



## 5aces

oregonian said:


> The ONE thing about vintage audio that is less than optimal is the lack of remote control Anyone try this yet?




The long form would be Remote Controlled Passive Linestage.

Install between the pre out and main in connections, or tape loop.

Some products such as Placette, remote control volume and inputs, for a higher end audio set up.

Chase RLC-1 Preamp with the remote control and Creek Audio OBH-10 Preamp with remote are discontinued but often available on the used market.

Or do a wireless internal mod like this devoted stereophile:
[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/P-VqL7AyXtU[/VIDEO]


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> This bug, when it bites you, injects deep into the core of my being.


----------



## Skylab

Gee, I have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## Oregonian

5aces said:


> The long form would be Remote Controlled Passive Linestage.
> 
> Install between the pre out and main in connections, or tape loop.
> 
> ...




Thanks for that link. $1595........I think I'll stick to my $49 partial solution till I hit the lottery. Then I'd be all over that. Had no idea that was possible. Like so many things, yet another mind expanding possibility. Very cool....


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> Gee, I have no idea what you're talking about.




And you, mister, are part and parcel of this problem I now have! 





And I thank you.


----------



## LugBug1

me too


----------



## MattTCG

+3


----------



## Silent One

+4 and the Rabitt ears!


----------



## LugBug1

Does anyone happen to know if you can use the tape-out on any old integrated amp as a pre amp? I'm thinking it will be a set volume, or will you be able to control the level with the volume?


----------



## Meewoo

You can't control anything, it acts as RCA cable extension.


----------



## Silent One

Also, I found out that Tape Out on both my SX-650 & SX-D7000 was not as clean as the dedicated Pre-amp Out on the D7000.


----------



## MattTCG

How did the d7k sound with the sx-650?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You can't control anything, it acts as RCA cable extension.


 
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> Also, I found out that Tape Out on both my SX-650 & SX-D7000 was not as clean as the dedicated Pre-amp Out on the D7000.


 
  Thanks guys, it was just a thought. Thats saved me trying it.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> How did the d7k sound with the sx-650?


 
  The LCD-2, D7000 & HE-5 all sounded okay with the SX-650. There certainly was warmth and punch. Big sound as well. But the Pioneer sounded like it could have used cleaning and partially recapping. I've a feeling with the aforementioned service it'd climb to the next level. Not bad for $60.
   
  On the other hand, the Denon D7000 jacked-in with the SX-D7000... WOWZA! All tone controls defeated for a flat position, and both D7000s still brings it! There is too many "D7000s" in the same sentence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So, if you're looking for good clean fun on the cheap, you may very well find it with the SX-650 pushing your cans, the efficient 25 Ohm D7000 especially!
   





 I'm still sleepy - not sure I even answered your question.


----------



## MattTCG

You did and the info was just what I was looking for.


----------



## Silent One

Great! Though, still not wide awake with the awareness of a Ninja!


----------



## MattTCG

I finally got a rack more suitable for the Sansui beast. I scored a Salamander Archetype two shelf rack from CL for $50. They list for $200 so I thought it was a nice deal. It's built like a tank and the shelves are completely adjustable. Each shelf is rating to hold 150 pounds so the Sansui will be no problem. I actually stood on the top shelf just to give it a real test and it was rock solid. 
   
  Pics to follow...


----------



## MattTCG

As promised...


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> As promised...


 
  Looks good.


----------



## Fearless1

I am going to a swap meet today where a guy has a stand that features tubes, vintage amps and receivers. I will try to get some pics if I can of his wares. If anyone is interested, I will post when I get home. He usually has some great stuff, but the wife is coming so pictures will probably be the only thing I will be bringing home.


----------



## MattTCG

I'll take a Pioneer sx-1250 for say...$100.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> As promised...


 
  Salamander is a good versatile rack, but they are designed to have the bottom rack really close to the bottom to act as a brace for the four supports. Not designed for the supports to be like table legs. This is critical for stability/performance. If you can wiggle those 'legs' it isn't as stable/rigid as designed to be!
  Should set it up more like this (turn them legs into feet):


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the tip. I'll make some adjustments. Ultimately I'd like a third shelf to put in there. That would make it perfect. I might just build my own.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





fearless1 said:


> I am going to a swap meet today where a guy has a stand that features tubes, vintage amps and receivers. I will try to get some pics if I can of his wares. If anyone is interested, I will post when I get home. He usually has some great stuff, but the wife is coming so pictures will probably be the only thing I will be bringing home.


 
   
  Not too much stuff today, lots of 80's equipment, but I did pick up a set of Advent speakers for the garage( 25 bucks they sound fantastic) and a capacitor checker for 15 bucks (he wanted 20), I like the looks of it.(2nd pic)

   

   

   

   


   



    @Matt, he had a 1250 once, but it was in rough shape, had to be shut off with the plug and was beat to hell and back, most of his stuff is in perfect shape.
   
  He had a beautiful turn table that had a wooden deck that was incredible looking, pic did not turn out(was dark in there) Micro Seki was the brand, just awesome looking but he wanted 350 for it.


----------



## MattTCG

Fearless...what kind TT? Go beat him down on the price and then call me.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> As promised...




What a beautiful receiver! 

Nice score on the rack btw. I need something like that myself.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks M!! I've already taken measurements for fitting a third shelf. There will be just enough room for the Sansui, Pioneer and SACD/bifrost will go on the bottom rack. Lowering the second shelve to the very bottom has made the unit rock solid and stable. Highly recommended.


----------



## moodyrn

I just got a couple of new additions recently. I only have room for three, so one of them has to go. I'm in the middle of doing some comparisons right now.



Fun times on a Sunday evening!!


----------



## Silent One

Where can I get an assignment like that?!


----------



## MattTCG

Dibs on the Pioneer!! I'll meet you half way.


----------



## Silent One

For moodyrn, this will prove to be a very memorable Sunday. This is what audio is all about!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, but it's funny how the sx1280 makes the ka907 look so small when the ka907 is actually the heaviest of the two. They both have some killer looking internals though. As much as I love my fisher x100c, I've long lusted after a fisher 500c, but only if it was already restored internally. I also didn't want to pay the insane prices for on off ebay. And on a sad note, you'll notice it's missing the wood cabinet. It actually came with it, but the left side of the bezel got broken off during shipment, along with two sliders. I'm really fortunate, the amp itself didn't get damaged on the inside. But fedex are the one's who packaged it, and I purchased insurance, so I already have a claim filed.

I truly love my x100c, it has a very unique warm, lush romantic tonality. That bodes well for some cans, but for others, not so much. On my w3000anv, it can become to much of a good thing. It does lack in the technicalities compared to my solid state vintage gear. So it's definitely going to be on it's way out and it's already up on ebay. What really drew my attention to the 500c was a couple of pro reviews(mainly stereophile). And most of all a thread on ak where people list the best sounding vintage receiver ever. Many of them started out saying...well first it's the fisher 500c, but after that....then they would name various solid state vintage gear.

The thing that immediately struck me about the 500c is that it doesn't sound much like a tube amp at all. Infact, it's the most neutral sounding of all of my vintage gear followed by the ka907. It has all of the characteristics associated with tube amps such as a very three dimensional sound stage, organic sounding mids. But it manages to do so while remaining completely neutral. There's been very few tube amps I've heard that does this.

Most surprising is the sx1280. I've been lusting after either it or a 1250 for quiet sometime after being very impressed with an sx1010 I used to own. I don't know if something is wrong with mine or not, but I just simply don't hear what people have said over a ak. Many of them say that it's bright and a little harsh, and analytical which is why some say they prefer a 1250 or even a 1010. But I really don't hear that. No of course it's not as warm as my sansui, but it's warm compared to both my fisher 500c and ka907. This was shocking. I was expecting cold, bright and analytical. But what I hear is a slight warmth, musical, and smooth. Transparency and detail is excellent as well. 

But as of right now, the sansui and fisher are both just a notch above the 907 and 1280. But that's probably not a fair fight since both of those have been completely restored. But I do like the 1280 a good deal more than the sx1010 I once had. But all of these totl beasts are on the same playing field, and neither one trounces the other which is why this decision is so hard.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the impressions on the sx1280. I saw one in the wild a few weeks ago but didn't get to hear it. I did hear the sx1050 and thought it was very nice but it was not a critical audition and hard to draw conclusions.


----------



## MattTCG

Double stack!!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Double stack!!


 
  Lowering that bottom shelf makes room for more iron!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Skylab

Moody, I thnk you NAILED the sound of the 1280. I cannot for the life of me figure how people think the SX-xx80 series is bright. No, not as warm as Marantz or Sansui, but not from bright IMO, in fact, just as you said, ever so slightly warm.

That's cool you snagged one!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Lowering that bottom shelf makes room for more iron!


 
   
  Yep, I was thinking the same. As much as I'd melt over a sx1050 or 1250, that's pie in the sky and I'm not paying ebay prices. I have a free Marantz 2270 that needs some work. It would real nice between those other two.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Skylab. Maybe their definition of neutral is far different from ours. . But listening to it was a pleasant surprise.

Matt it would be more than worth it to get that marantz going. That's a really fine sounding receiver!!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I think so too. It looks rough on the outside but may not be as bad as electrically. I'll pick it up tomorrow and then work on it some after work this week. Worse case I can always sell it as a project or for parts if I can't fix it.


----------



## moodyrn

Please keep us posted. I hope you can get it working.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Was in to drop my Spec 2 amp off to Doug after all - the scratchiness came back and it's just not right so he's on it.  Saw this while I was in today...............and thought of ya.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice.................


 
  oh he has another one? I am going there tomorrow and pick up my HK 670. I WISH he had a Marantz 2270. I know where two are with wood cases (I wont say where ) but ones $400 and the other $500 and that's just too much.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol, but it's funny how the sx1280 makes the ka907 look so small when the ka907 is actually the heaviest of the two. They both have some killer looking internals though. As much as I love my fisher x100c, I've long lusted after a fisher 500c, but only if it was already restored internally. I also didn't want to pay the insane prices for on off ebay. And on a sad note, you'll notice it's missing the wood cabinet. It actually came with it, but the left side of the bezel got broken off during shipment, along with two sliders. I'm really fortunate, the amp itself didn't get damaged on the inside. But fedex are the one's who packaged it, and I purchased insurance, so I already have a claim filed.
> 
> I truly love my x100c, it has a very unique warm, lush romantic tonality. That bodes well for some cans, but for others, not so much. On my w3000anv, it can become to much of a good thing. It does lack in the technicalities compared to my solid state vintage gear. So it's definitely going to be on it's way out and it's already up on ebay. What really drew my attention to the 500c was a couple of pro reviews(mainly stereophile). And most of all a thread on ak where people list the best sounding vintage receiver ever. Many of them started out saying...well first it's the fisher 500c, but after that....then they would name various solid state vintage gear.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The 500c is on my radar too.   Many (including Stereophile as you pointed out) say this is the holy grail of all vintage receivers.  Also would not mind a 1250 at some point.


----------



## moodyrn

So far, I would have to agree. I have sitting in front of me a fully restored 9090db and sx1280, and the 500c is just on another playing field.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


>


 
  That's a fine looking stack! I'm almost surprised the floor isn't sagging haha. You just put the 500c on my radar as well, but that will have to wait until the missus is out of town or something.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol thanks, my wife told me I need to make a decision on which one needs to go by the end of the week. She's tired of seeing a vintage amp/receiver in every room. So my three amp rule was really made by her lol.


----------



## SpeakerBox

For anyone interested, here is a link to the Stereophile review of the 500C:
   
http://www.stereophile.com/historical/605fisher


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Lol thanks, my wife told me I need to make a decision on which one needs to go by the end of the week. She's tired of seeing a vintage amp/receiver in every room. So my three amp rule was really made by her lol.


 
   
  It's important to be mindful of the balance of the force in your home. I have two vintage receivers and just picked up a third. I don't think that the little Mrs. even noticed the third. It stacks nicely atop the second and doesn't invade her domain. Now speakers are a different story. I have two sets that will need to go soon. Especially since I made a lowball offer on ebay this weekend for some Dynaco A25 and low and behold...it was accepted. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Near mint Dyanco's for $175 shipped...score. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now when the new speakers show up, if I haven't freed up some space there will be a serious "stink eye" coming my way. Believe me, this is not a good thing. So the Pioneers and the Polks I've had since college must go.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It's important to be mindful of the balance of the force in your home. I have two vintage receivers and just picked up a third. I don't think that the little Mrs. even noticed the third. It stacks nicely atop the second and doesn't invade her domain. Now speakers are a different story. I have two sets that will need to go soon. Especially since I made a lowball offer on ebay this weekend for some Dynaco A25 and low and behold...it was accepted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Let's hope you don't wait till the last dang minute. Get busy. And then here come's the delivery truck...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 uh-oh! It'll be like watching a chiller diller movie - we know what's fixin' to happen to our character but we gotta look anyway.


----------



## MattTCG

I gotta get moving...you're certainly right about that. Anybody looking for a curbside score shoot me a pm.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice stand matt  
   
  Had a bit of a chuckle when I stumbled across this... Make sure you read the sales pitch  
   
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-SA-7100-STEREO-AMPLIFIER-/141021660776?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item20d58bc668
   
  What a bargain


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> That's a fine looking stack! I'm almost surprised the floor isn't sagging haha. You just put the 500c on my radar as well, but that will have to wait until the missus is out of town or something.


 
  Listed on HF: http://www.head-fi.org/t/671689/fisher-500-receiver-with-wooden-case


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Nice stand matt
> 
> Had a bit of a chuckle when I stumbled across this... Make sure you read the sales pitch
> 
> ...


 
  Well I thought it was funny anyway... He's offering a full refund if items aren't as they are described... Its a pic of a Pioneer... and he's calling it a Sony.. oh nevermind.   
   
  Well I'm bidding!


----------



## moodyrn

parbaked said:


> Listed on HF: http://www.head-fi.org/t/671689/fisher-500-receiver-with-wooden-case




That's who I got mine from, I can vouch for him. He's a great guy and it's much cheaper than eBay. Also his was refurbished by a fisher guru who sadly passed way about a year ago. I can post some internals if anyone's interested.


----------



## BmWr75

Here's my latest restoration, a Channel Master 6000 tube integrated amp.  Uses one 5AR4, four EL84s, four 12ax7s and one 12au7.  Am told this is a rare amp and a Google search seems to confirm that.  Pictures below are as bought for $45 and then two photos after the restoration.  It came with Mullard, Telefunken and Amperex tubes installed, all tested like new.


----------



## MattTCG

Gorgeous!! I love the gold tone face plate. Something a little different than the silver. So how is the sound?


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Gorgeous!! I love the gold tone face plate. Something a little different than the silver. So how is the sound?


 
   
  The faceplate is engraved brass.  She sounds very nice.


----------



## MattTCG

Are you using it for speakers, hp's or both?


----------



## Skylab

Holy cow Scott!!!! You fixed that up nice, buddy!!!


----------



## Meewoo

NVM


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> Here's my latest restoration, a Channel Master 6000 tube integrated amp.  Uses one 5AR4, four EL84s, four 12ax7s and one 12au7.  Am told this is a rare amp and a Google search seems to confirm that.  Pictures below are as bought for $45 and then two photos after the restoration.  It came with Mullard, Telefunken and Amperex tubes installed, all tested like new.


 
  Prettiest amp i've seen in a long time. engraved brass!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Beautiful restoration, but better pics please!
  (BTW love the iPod into vintage gear!)


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


>


 
  Thats absolutely gorgeous! Nice work


----------



## LugBug1

Won this last night  Akai AA-5500 recapped and looking spiff. It was love at first sight when I spotted it a week ago and I was ready to pay a pretty penny. But I snapped it up for £77! 
   

   
  Should receive the end of the week and I'll share some impressions.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Are you using it for speakers, hp's or both?


 
   
  Just speakers so far.  Have not tried it with headphones from the speaker outputs.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Prettiest amp i've seen in a long time. engraved brass!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  It is hard to get good pictures of the front of this amp because its like taking a picture of a mirror.  You'll see what I mean in one of the photos below that was taken before I was finished with the polishing.


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Holy cow Scott!!!! You fixed that up nice, buddy!!!


 
   
  Thanks Rob......and to think I was trying to give this amp away after robbing the tubes from it!!   The tubes alone are worth at least 5X what I paid for it.  @jaymanna over on AK told me it is a rare amp, so I decided to get it running safely again.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


> It is hard to get good pictures of the front of this amp because its like taking a picture of a mirror.  You'll see what I mean in one of the photos below that was taken before I was finished with the polishing.


 
   
  Very nice!!!  Is that a definitive tech powered sub that it is sitting on?  Just curious because I have one that looks like that.


----------



## Trav

Fighting subliminal messages ....in Yoda voice "500C must have"...


----------



## MattTCG

There is a really nice looking Sansui 8 on Audiogon listed at $350. That's a dang good unit, but I already have a very nice Sansui.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





trav said:


> Fighting subliminal messages ....in Yoda voice "500C must have"...


 
   
  I'm with ya.


----------



## PhoenixG

Yeah, that voice won.


----------



## moodyrn

lol


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Very nice!!!  Is that a definitive tech powered sub that it is sitting on?  Just curious because I have one that looks like that.


 
   
  Yes, you called it correctly.


----------



## joehalo

My new Sansui 6060 and my Philips L1


----------



## pixelsphotopro

I have a Harman Kardon PM655 Vxi, rated 90w/c and looking at the service manual it has a 470 ohm resistance at the headphone output, how to calculate how many watts I have available for my headphones?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> My new Sansui 6060 and my Philips L1


 
  I likes


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> I have a Harman Kardon PM655 Vxi, rated 90w/c and looking at the service manual it has a 470 ohm resistance at the headphone output, how to calculate how many watts I have available for my headphones?


 
  According to my math, you will have available 0.38 watts max power, assuming it was spec'ed out into 8 ohms. Max power is to 470 ohm head phones, though lower ohm ones might be more efficient/louder.
  Somebody check my math here -
  90=v^2/8, v=26.8
  Pmax=(26.8/(470*4))^2=.38 watts


----------



## LugBug1

Couple of pics of my new Akai. 
   

   

   
  Early impressions are great sound, but with my HD800's there is a bit of noise when no music playing. I'll be keeping this one to sit and look pretty until I either regain some orthos or speakers in the future. Still, no regrets as I love how she looks!


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Couple of pics of my new Akai.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Gorgeous!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Gorgeous!


 
  Cheers bud


----------



## MattTCG

Putting a super clean on my freebie marantz. It's amazing what a Mr. Clean eraser will do.


----------



## reiserFS

Anyone ever listened to a Sansui R-30? Worth spending 30 bucks on it?


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> According to my math, you will have available 0.38 watts max power, assuming it was spec'ed out into 8 ohms. Max power is to 470 ohm head phones, though lower ohm ones might be more efficient/louder.
> Somebody check my math here -
> 90=v^2/8, v=26.8
> Pmax=(26.8/(470*4))^2=.38 watts


 
  Thank you, I will try then connected to the speakers post and be very careful  to sell my PM655 and get a Pioneer or Marantz receiver


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> According to my math, you will have available 0.38 watts max power, assuming it was spec'ed out into 8 ohms. Max power is to 470 ohm head phones, though lower ohm ones might be more efficient/louder.
> Somebody check my math here -
> 90=v^2/8, v=26.8
> Pmax=(26.8/(470*4))^2=.38 watts


 
   
You are correct until Volt.
V=26.8 at the beginning, how much current can run through resister? I=V/R=0.057ampere. So your headphone port has maximum 0.057 ampere, if you drive a 600ohm headphone, you get P=RI^2=1.94w. that's pretty high power.
   
  @Pixelsphotopro, you can replace the resistor yourself like many people did. You can also build a resistor box that can link your cans to speaker post of receiver directly. Your HK pm655 can drive most phones.
   
  Edit: Check PhoenixG's post below!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





reiserfs said:


> Anyone ever listened to a Sansui R-30? Worth spending 30 bucks on it?


 
  I haven't heard. But I would say you can't go wrong for $30 especially if its in good nick. But bare in mind thats a mid 80's model and these are a lot cheaper on the market as they aren't as sort after as the 60's - 70's models for when Sansui was at the top of their game.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You are correct until Volt.
> V=26.8 at the beginning, how much current can run through resister? I=V/R=0.057ampere. So your headphone port has maximum 0.057 ampere, if you drive a 600ohm headphone, you get P=RI^2=1.94w. that's pretty high power.
> 
> @Pixelsphotopro, you can replace the resistor yourself like many people did. You can also build a resistor box that can link your cans to speaker post of receiver directly. Your HK pm655 can drive most phones.


 
  I think that math works out if the output is a current source, but if you'd think of the output as a voltage source, you have to include HP resistance in your current equation, so .057 amps is max current into a short circuit - meaning it can probably drive low ohm HP's just fine, but into 600 ohms, the current eqn would be I=26.8/(470+600)=.025amps, .376 watts.
  To keep the math simple, I used a thevenin max power eqn for a paired resistive load which gave peak curent at 0 ohms and peak power at 470 ohms.
  If you want more power, I agree with replacing the dropping resistor


----------



## LugBug1

Ok last one.. No seriously 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Had to try a Sansui and this was too much of a bargain to pass up. Perfect condition apart from a little nick off the corner of the vinyl. Insides are spotless as well. 
   
  Its the AU 505 low powered early 70's integrated. Ideal headphone amp with a lovely balanced, detailed sound with a hint of warmth.
   

   

   

   
  Thats me done for my main listening station. I've got my Marantz for my bedside and a spare Technics in case anything blows up. Those 3 amps in the pic cost me appox £200 in total. Thats £100 less than my last headphone amp... None of these amps are end-gamers I know, but I'm more than happy for what I've spent. I bought a couple of duds along the way as well, but this vintage hobby is all about learning as you go. And of course being at the right place at the right time...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> I think that math works out if the output is a current source, but if you'd think of the output as a voltage source, you have to include HP resistance in your current equation, so .057 amps is max current into a short circuit - meaning it can probably drive low ohm HP's just fine, but into 600 ohms, the current eqn would be I=26.8/(470+600)=.025amps, .376 watts.
> To keep the math simple, I used a thevenin max power eqn for a paired resistive load which gave peak curent at 0 ohms and peak power at 470 ohms.
> If you want more power, I agree with replacing the dropping resistor


 
   
  You are absolutely right, Sir!!
  Thanks for correcting me.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You are correct until Volt.
> V=26.8 at the beginning, how much current can run through resister? I=V/R=0.057ampere. So your headphone port has maximum 0.057 ampere, if you drive a 600ohm headphone, you get P=RI^2=1.94w. that's pretty high power.
> 
> @Pixelsphotopro, you can replace the resistor yourself like many people did. You can also build a resistor box that can link your cans to speaker post of receiver directly. Your HK pm655 can drive most phones.
> ...


 
  My headphone are the JVC HA-RX700 64 ohm and I have to go up to 1:00pm on the volume knob to get good sound


----------



## verde57

Can someone tell me what resistor values should I have in my receiver for orthos like HE-400?
  they are 32ohms, but they draw high current.
  The brands own  head amps goes around 5w into 50ohms.


----------



## PhoenixG

I wouldn't change it. Optimal resistor value is to be the same as your HP's, but 50 and 32 are plenty close.


----------



## verde57

32ohms is the impedance of the headphones, or 35ohms.
  the amp has resistors around 220ohms, 1W.


----------



## PhoenixG

Ok, if you have an idea of how much current/power you want your HP's to have, I'll run the numbers. Send me a PM maybe, IDK if people want to be reading everything.


----------



## verde57

Hifiman  HE-400 rec. power must be between 1W-2W.  35ohms


----------



## Meewoo

pixelsphotopro said:


> My headphone are the JVC HA-RX700 64 ohm and I have to go up to 1:00pm on the volume knob to get good sound



My HK665 has 500ohm resistor at headphone port, it can drive AKG Q701, K340 etc without sweat. I never turn volume pot over 12 o' clock. Check your amp with speakers, I think your amp has problem or you select wrong input source.


----------



## LugBug1

I can never get passed 8' oclock on my amps with my computer on full volume... Cd player the same. I must be a Wuss


----------



## MattTCG

I got the Marantz 2270 completely cleaned up today. Deoxit on all the pots and switches. Replaced the power cord that had been severed. And now, time to give it a listen.


----------



## LugBug1

May the force be with you ^


----------



## MattTCG

I was told by a trusted source to plug it and if all seems well to let it just sit for about 24 hours to burn in the caps, solder joints ect. ??


----------



## LugBug1

If it hasn't been used in a very long time then yes. That would be the sensible thing to do. 
   
  Are you sensible?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Yes, well sometimes.


----------



## LugBug1

Have you plugged her in yet? Are there lights? Pretty ones?


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Ok last one.. No seriously
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good luck with stopping right there. Seriously, I want to believe it's possible, for my own sake. In the UK it's a lot easier because we don't get the bargains and the opportunities that come stateside.
   
  Being in the right place at the right time can been very costly this side of the pond. When I bought my SX1980 from a UK seller, I knew the chances of a '1980 coming up again for sale were slimmer than being the father of the next royal baby. Now two years later I shipped it to the US for a full recap and restoration (don't ask what the shipping is for 78lbs) . I'm hoping it will be part of my 'end-game' rig. 
   
  Just because I already own a Marantz 2385 and a Sansui AU-D907, which will have to be restored (in the US), I can stop any time I want to.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mrq said:


> Good luck with stopping right there. Seriously, I want to believe it's possible, for my own sake. In the UK it's a lot easier because we don't get the bargains and the opportunities that come stateside.
> 
> Being in the right place at the right time can been very costly this side of the pond. When I bought my SX1980 from a UK seller, I knew the chances of a '1980 coming up again for sale were slimmer than being the father of the next royal baby. Now two years later I shipped it to the US for a full recap and restoration (don't ask what the shipping is for 78lbs) . I'm hoping it will be part of my 'end-game' rig.
> 
> ...


 
  Hahahaha (and that's some serious gear you have!)
   
  Yeah, I'm feeling quite content tonight... But tomorow is another day. If it wasn't for damn computers I would be able to just sit back and enjoy what I've got and stare into space. But I keep getting the urge to see what I'm missing on fleabay...  Suppose, luckily (or unluckily?) for me I am really limited with funds and have to constantly sell what I'm not using to afford stuff. But at the same time- there are soo many bargains to be had! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And I hate missing bargains.. 
   
  A recapped SX1980 has to be the ultimate though mate. It'll be worth the cost because in this hobby you can't put a price on the best and what it means to us.


----------



## MrQ

I must say I was quite impressed by your Akai AA-5500 and started contemplating some budget deals. But that's not how I got what I have now. Although you have shown me there are alternatives to the more popular items.
   
  I'm as skint as the next man. What I did was to focus on one or two items. Then save and not buy anything until I got what I wanted. It's a waiting game, but it can pay off. 
   
  For example, I have a pair of HPM 100's. Got them recapped. Replaced the woofers, replaced a L-pad, then found that one of the mid-range speakers is faulty (low output). I've had to wait three months until someone was selling a mid-speaker _and _was shipping worldwide. Bought it this evening (from flipping Canada).


----------



## Skylab

MrQ, what's the deal with the full keyboard "dump" in your posts? Just curious...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Have you plugged her in yet? Are there lights? Pretty ones?


 
   
  All lights are lite and it's sure perdy? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm letting it burn in a bit now and am anxious to give it a listen.


----------



## harrinj

Oregonian. The guy at Audio specialties was working on a drop dead gorgeous Marantz 4300 omg lol. There's a Marantz 2238B available near me for $186 but I'd offer $100. Anyone think it'd be worth it? 100% functional.


----------



## captouch

harrinj said:


> Oregonian. The guy at Audio specialties was working on a drop dead gorgeous Marantz 4300 omg lol. There's a Marantz 2238B available near me for $186 but I'd offer $100. Anyone think it'd be worth it? 100% functional.




Even $186 seems reasonable based on market pricing, if it's in good condition. If you can get it for $100, even better.


----------



## MattTCG

The Marantz 2270 sounds warm, lush and wonderful. Fully functional now but the power button was broken off. I don't need just the button, I need the whole switch. Can this be acquired anywhere other than ebay?


----------



## Skylab

You might have luck with a WTB ad in Barter Town on AK.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> The Marantz 2270 sounds warm, lush and wonderful. Fully functional now but the power button was broken off. I don't need just the button, I need the whole switch. Can this be acquired anywhere other than ebay?


 
  mouser or digikey sells a good replacement for the switch i believe.  I'd go ask around in the Marantz section at AK.  Somebody will help you out with the specifics.  as for the actual button it can probably be sourced from ebay.  Be carefull though, theres 2 different marantz button lengths for that type button.  make sure you get the right one.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thanks for the info guys. Will check out both of those options.


----------



## harrinj

captouch said:


> Even $186 seems reasonable based on market pricing, if it's in good condition. If you can get it for $100, even better.




Yes its pretty much mint condition. I want it and I hope they'd take $100. Its been up for almost three months now. I would think it does not have the Dolby FM decoder but that does not matter what so ever to me.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Not having the dolby is a plus IMO.


----------



## harrinj

matttcg said:


> ^^ Not having the dolby is a plus IMO.




Well the 2238B had it optional it had a receptacle in the back where you'd insert the module like the quad marantz. My Marantz 4240 does not have the SQ decoder module.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> MrQ, what's the deal with the full keyboard "dump" in your posts? Just curious...


 
  +1


----------



## Rawrbington

So Matt whas the story on the 2270?
  i had one that a friend and i recapped.
  Im a sucker for Marantz.


----------



## MattTCG

The 2270 was from a golf buddy and he had it sitting in his basement for many years. I offered to take it and refurb it to sell or to keep. To be completely honest, I'm not nearly as impressed by the Marantz as I hoped to be. This may not be the best time to form any opinions because my life happens to be insane right now with other stuff. Plus I've only got to listen to the 2270 for about 30 minutes with one pair of hp and one set of speakers. 
   
  Give me a day or two for more listening to draw some more accurate conclusions.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Very nice!!


 
  +1


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> The 2270 was from a golf buddy and he had it sitting in his basement for many years. I offered to take it and refurb it to sell or to keep. To be completely honest, I'm not nearly as impressed by the Marantz as I hoped to be. This may not be the best time to form any opinions because my life happens to be insane right now with other stuff. Plus I've only got to listen to the 2270 for about 30 minutes with one pair of hp and one set of speakers.
> 
> Give me a day or two for more listening to draw some more accurate conclusions.


 
  Wahhhh?! D: The Marantz 2270 is one of the best!


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You are correct until Volt.
> V=26.8 at the beginning, how much current can run through resister? I=V/R=0.057ampere. So your headphone port has maximum 0.057 ampere, if you drive a 600ohm headphone, you get P=RI^2=1.94w. that's pretty high power.
> 
> @Pixelsphotopro, you can replace the resistor yourself like many people did. You can also build a resistor box that can link your cans to speaker post of receiver directly. Your HK pm655 can drive most phones.
> ...


 
  What would be the best resistance to use with my JVC HA-RX700 64 ohms? I would love to have at least 1 watt available from the heaphones output as my headphone can take it OR should I get another brand of headphones? But I love the sound of them with my flac music library and thanks for all the help you give me.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> What would be the best resistance to use with my JVC HA-RX700 64 ohms? I would love to have at least 1 watt available from the heaphones output as my headphone can take it OR should I get another brand of headphones? But I love the sound of them with my flac music library and thanks for all the help you give me.


 
   
  According to the JVC website, the HA-RX700 is rated at 48 ohms nominal. It also has a sensitivity rating of 105 dB/mW. Based on these numbers, approx 3 mW will drive your JVC's to 110 dB SPL!
   
  You definitely don't need 1 watt. You don't even need 1/2 watt! Adding resistance will certainly change the efficiency, but even at 64 ohms, an amp like the little Fiio E7k will put out over 100 mW. That's more headroom than you will ever need.


----------



## roadcykler

There's a nice Sansui 8080db for sale on the Portland Craigslist. Not sure how the price compares but you don't see many of these.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> According to the JVC website, the HA-RX700 is rated at 48 ohms nominal. It also has a sensitivity rating of 105 dB/mW. Based on these numbers, approx 3 mW will drive your JVC's to 110 dB SPL!
> 
> You definitely don't need 1 watt. You don't even need 1/2 watt! Adding resistance will certainly change the efficiency, but even at 64 ohms, an amp like the little Fiio E7k will put out over 100 mW. That's more headroom than you will ever need.


 
  Thank you


----------



## captouch

harrinj said:


> Wahhhh?! D: The Marantz 2270 is one of the best!




Might need a recap?


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Might need a recap?


 
  I could not believe that post! Marantz 2270 is AMAZING! I know where two are that are for sale at a shop in nice wood cases but they are just too much money. I'd love to buy one of them someday...


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> According to the JVC website, the HA-RX700 is rated at 48 ohms nominal. It also has a sensitivity rating of 105 dB/mW. Based on these numbers, approx 3 mW will drive your JVC's to 110 dB SPL!
> 
> You definitely don't need 1 watt. You don't even need 1/2 watt! Adding resistance will certainly change the efficiency, but even at 64 ohms, an amp like the little Fiio E7k will put out over 100 mW. That's more headroom than you will ever need.


 
  I'm just a little confused, I used my iPad from the headphone out connected to my HK PM655 CD input ( even try the AUX IN) and have to go past 12 on the volume  to get a good sound....


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





skylab said:


> MrQ, what's the deal with the full keyboard "dump" in your posts? Just curious...


 

 Bugger! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks for pointing that out Skylab. It's a bug in Safari. I had switched to Firefox, which then became a cpu hog, then switched back to Safari forgetting the formatting bug.
   
  Oh well back on Firefox.


----------



## Silent One

I often wondered about said "Dump" but decided to remain silent. Good to know.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> There's a nice Sansui 8080db for sale on the Portland Craigslist. Not sure how the price compares but you don't see many of these.




Just saw that. That seems reasonable at $350? And a 9090 for $649 as well........yum.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> I could not believe that post! Marantz 2270 is AMAZING! I know where two are that are for sale at a shop in nice wood cases but they are just too much money. I'd love to buy one of them someday...


 
   
  I have a number of Marantz units and have not been impressed with any of them.  Could be I am spoiled by my Jeff Rowland amps, but to me they sound ill defined.  Lack of detail.  That said, I think the HKs, Pioneers, and Sherwoods I have heard sound good.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Thanks for the info guys. Will check out both of those options.


 
   
  I buy a replacement switch from Digikey shown in the photo.  Worked great on a 2230.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> I'm just a little confused, I used my iPad from the headphone out connected to my HK PM655 CD input ( even try the AUX IN) and have to go past 12 on the volume  to get a good sound....


 

 Is the volume at maximum on your iPad?


----------



## LugBug1

Matt,  if the Marantz hasn't been used for a long time then it will no doubt take time to open up again. Keep using it and I'm sure you will be more impressed as time goes by. 
   
  My 2216b sounds warm, rich and balanced. It's not the last word in refinement but very involving all the same.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I buy a replacement switch from Digikey shown in the photo.  Worked great on a 2230.


 
   
  Thank you very much!!


----------



## Skylab

I like my Marantz 2285, and I have no plans to get rid of it since its a nice size for the office. It sounds good, but its a far cry from my Pioneer SX-1980 in terms of sound quality. It was also below both the more similarly priced SX-1250 when I had that. The Marantz is warm and pleasant sounding but lacks transparency and detail, IMHO. The 2275 I had was the same.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Matt,  if the Marantz hasn't been used for a long time then it will no doubt take time to open up again. Keep using it and I'm sure you will be more impressed as time goes by.
> 
> My 2216b sounds warm, rich and balanced. It's not the last word in refinement but very involving all the same.


 
   
  I'll burn it in this weekend and then give it a good listen.


----------



## moodyrn

Matt I'm really glad you were able to get it back going. I find marantz to have a niche sound. Some people adore it, and some don't. But being use to what you already have may lower the wow effect, but its still a really good sounding receiver though. I got rid of my 2325 for the reasons Skylab stated. But on the other hand the 2330b and above have a completely different sound sig. And sounds much more neutral and balanced.


----------



## LugBug1

Been giving my Sansui a bit of quality time tonight. I absolutely adore the sound sig. It's perfect for me! But nothing is perfect... There is a little bit of a hummm when no music is playing, its low level but now that I've noticed it... Volume makes no difference. I've tried some of the grounding tests, removing everything plugged in near by. I've looked inside and all the earth connections are sound I think.
   
  Help me pleaase!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I've found my perfect sound apart from this low hummmmmmm. It reminds me of my guitar days, its the same sort of noise when a guitar is plugged into a an amp. Its not noticeable with most music when there is bass there, but anything that has space like classical then I can hear it. Sniff. 
   
  Is it normal transistor noise for an old amp? If that is the case then I can live with it. If I know that it's fixable then I'll be on a mission to sort it! 
   
  Any help is much appreciated.


----------



## MattTCG

Which Sansui?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Which Sansui?


 
  AU-505
   
  Silky smooth, open and involving... Just a lovely sound. But then the hummmmm.. both channels. Very low, but its gonna do my head in haha


----------



## Skylab

Does the hum occur in every input? Do you hear it even when your source is powered off? 

Also, headphones or speakers? And if headphones, which?

It could literally be dozens of things...almost any part that's out of spec could feasibly be the culprit. But first it's best to try to narrow it down a bit...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Does the hum occur in every input? Do you hear it even when your source is powered off?
> 
> Also, headphones or speakers? And if headphones, which?
> 
> It could literally be dozens of things...almost any part that's out of spec could feasibly be the culprit. But first it's best to try to narrow it down a bit...


 
  It's still there with no source and everything unplugged, I'm using HD800's. I've got an old set of goldrings that I use to test amps with first and they are much lower impedance, but the noise is still there with them but much lower. The hum is slightly more pronounced to the right if that helps?? but def both channels. When I listen really closely there is a slight static as well on the right. It's a hummm but with the static only on the right. 
   
  Thanks for your time on this Skylab


----------



## Skylab

Well the HD800 are very high sensitivity. Does the 505 have a -20dB muting function ? If it does, does this seem to eliminate the hum?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well the HD800 are very high sensitivity. Does the 505 have a -20dB muting function ? If it does, does this seem to eliminate the hum?


 
  No, I've tried every switch listening for a change but nothing. It was only a cheap amp (£50) but I've literally fallen for its sound. I a/b'd with my reference Pioneer and it beats it hands down. So I'm clutching at straws ha
  Also the insides look good. The caps look like they could have been put in yesterday... The thing is, I would pay to get it recapped if I thought it would fix it. But I knwo that will cost me at least probs twice as much as what I paid.. And I'm not guaranteed to get the same sound back!


----------



## MattTCG

I get hum with the hd650 and my Sansui unless I use the -20db switch...FYI


----------



## Skylab

And I had hum with my Sansui 9090DB with sensitive headphones unless I used the -20dB muting - and it had been fully recapped! It's asking a lot of a powerful amp to be noise free when connected to highly sensitive headphones when the drivers are an inch from your ear. It's always astonished me that my SX-1980 can pull that off.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I get hum with the hd650 and my Sansui unless I use the -20db switch...FYI


 
  Actually bud that is really helpful. Because the 650's are 300 ohm as well.. Hmm, you see as long as I know its normal I'll live with it ha 
   
  I'll use it for jazz (double bass covers the hum). Keep my pioneer for classical! 
   
  But man, considering its a lower end model... Sansui rules!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> And I had hum with my Sansui 9090DB with sensitive headphones unless I used the -20dB muting - and it had been fully recapped! It's asking a lot of a powerful amp to be noise free when connected to highly sensitive headphones when the drivers are an inch from your ear. It's always astonished me that my SX-1980 can pull that off.


 
  Ah thanks. Seriously! That makes sense. I think I need to remember that these aren't designed for headphones. 
   
  Cheers bud  
   
  Right, I'm gonna just appreciate the sound. ***K the hummm hahah!!


----------



## MattTCG

Most of the amps (vintage of course) that I own go best with orthos. You should hear the he-4 (very demanding of amps) with the Sansui. It rocks my world every time I fire it up.


----------



## bce22

So tomorrow I have an appointment to checkout a Luxman R-1120 that looks pretty minty that was serviced about 3 years ago and the buyer wants $350.  it was serviced by an AK member who posted a thread on the work.  Looks pretty sweet.
   
  The seller says its not as warm as his other luxmans now that it  has been recapped.
   
  I heard these units provide a pretty warm and musical sound.  I am looking for something that is warm.  i find my realistic 2100d a little forward and bright with my cornwalls and he500s.
   
  Id love a fisher or scott unit but dont want to fork over a ton of money for one right now.
   
  http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/3948550305.html  
   
  what do you think?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Most of the amps (vintage of course) that I own go best with orthos. You should hear the he-4 (very demanding of amps) with the Sansui. It rocks my world every time I fire it up.


 
  I wish I still had some orthos to try mate, I used to have both lcd2 and he500. But I found my heaven with the HD800 so amps are always gonna be second best.. Thing is, my marantz and technics are both silent/black backround with my senns. But they are both later models? like late 70's early 80's. My little experience with vintage, maybe a pattern is emerging with hp compatibility :/ Dunno?


----------



## MattTCG

Even though I do get a slight hum with my hd650 with both the Sansui and the Pioneer sx-650, the sound is tremendous!! I can't hear the hum unless the music is paused or very very quite. Doesn't bother me. The when I remember that I got the Pioneer free and the Sansui for $200, it that whisper of a hum REALLY doesn't bother me.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Even though I do get a slight hum with my hd650 with both the Sansui and the Pioneer sx-650, the sound is tremendous!! I can't hear the hum unless the music is paused or very very quite. Doesn't bother me. The when I remember that I got the Pioneer free and the Sansui for $200, it that whisper of a hum REALLY doesn't bother me.


 
  Well said. 
   
  I can live with a little hummm. In fact, as I'm typing this my computer has developed a louder one! ha its over heating a bit...
   
  Cheers guys 
   
  its 3 am here and... Well, I'm enjoying my music too much to go to bed hahaha SANSUUUIIII!!!


----------



## Trav

I guess I've been fortunate. My Sansui 881 is stone silent with everything I've tried with it.


----------



## Silent One

I pick up my Sansui G-22000 in 2 hours - waiting for commute rush hour traffic to ease. Hopefully, tomorrow I'll find out if my HD650 has a slight hum or not.
   
  Before I placed it in the shop, it did not - ran iPod thru AUX IN.


----------



## MattTCG

I have no problem making the Sansui my amp of choice for the hd650 despite the slight hum. Best of luck Silent One!! Pics and Impressions are obligatory!!


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> I pick up my Sansui G-22000 in 2 hours - waiting for commute rush hour traffic to ease. Hopefully, tomorrow I'll find out if my HD650 has a slight hum or not.
> 
> Before I placed it in the shop, it did not - ran iPod thru AUX IN.




Congrats SO! Glad you are finally getting the Beast back 




lugbug1 said:


> Cheers guys
> 
> its 3 am here and... Well, I'm enjoying my music too much to go to bed hahaha SANSUUUIIII!!!




I know what you mean. I'm down in the basement cranking tunes and just can't stop!!!!


----------



## MattTCG

Man what I'd do for a basement and just half of Rob's gear.


----------



## bce22

no thought on the luxman guys?  By the way Rob, that looks like an awesome space take in some 'darkside'


----------



## MattTCG

No experience here...sorry. I only know them by reputation. You might hit up AK and check there.


----------



## Skylab

bce22 said:


> no thought on the luxman guys?  By the way Rob, that looks like an awesome space take in some 'darkside'




Thanks! And yeah, sorry, no experience with vintage Luxman here either.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks! And yeah, sorry, no experience with vintage Luxman here either.


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> No experience here...sorry. I only know them by reputation. You might hit up AK and check there.


 
  Thats cool!  
   
  I guess i get to be the head-fi luxman guinea pig then.  Im down for that.  i will check in tomorrow evening after buying the thing.


----------



## Meewoo

Have you read all thread? I am the Luxman sucker! Bring your cans to me.


----------



## PhoenixG

@@Skylab, I love seeing pictures of your man cave. I'm pretty sure mine will look like that soon too. For now, I still have the sx-1980 in the living room, with McIntosh XR16 speakers and wires run to the kitchen around the corner (more McIntosh, XR14's, in there. McIntosh speakers are #'s 1, 3, and 4 of my top all time favorite- so not quite a sweep). The wife doesn't mind it front and center since I tend to be productive when it's on. The house seems to get cleaner and things get done with the TV off and the music on.
  It took me two looks to notice that your tv is not on a table, but speakers. Are those S-1010's?
   
  >Silent dude, congrats again on the G22000, I hope that monster earns its spot front and center in your main rig and never has to hide in the closet or under the bed again (get it? haha).
   
  >BCE - Regarding the Luxman, it looks like a fair price and you don't have to worry about shipping. As always, make sure you're happy with the sound before you buy.


----------



## bce22

luxman sucker or suckface


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I have a number of Marantz units and have not been impressed with any of them.  Could be I am spoiled by my Jeff Rowland amps, but to me they sound ill defined.  Lack of detail.  That said, I think the HKs, Pioneers, and Sherwoods I have heard sound good.


 
  I'd take the Marantz off your hands if you don't like them  I don't think my 2220B sounds all that great pretty much what you said I'd agree with about the 2220B but my 4240 sounds excellent especially the Dolby EQ sounds amazing, I think the 4240 sounds better than my HK 670. I'd love to get a 4300 or 2270. I am hoping to get this 2238B near me after the first of the month unless some *insert nasty word here* suddenly gets interest in it and takes it


----------



## cheuh

Do you guys think vintage receivers are better than modern headphone desktop amps such as the ones from schitt audio, fiio, or objective2? 

How do we determine what brand and model of vintage receivers are good for driving headphones? Is it by trial and error or should we be looking at some sort of specs of the receiver?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Congrats SO! Glad you are finally getting the Beast back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  haha great stuff! 
   
  Man cave + SX1980 + Pink Floyd = Happy man!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Do you guys think vintage receivers are better than modern headphone desktop amps such as the ones from schitt audio, fiio, or objective2?
> 
> How do we determine what brand and model of vintage receivers are good for driving headphones? Is it by trial and error or should we be looking at some sort of specs of the receiver?


 
   
  Ultimately once you get into very good hp amps, the decision will be based on what your preference is personally...slight differences in warmth, clarity, transparency and dynamics (and price).
   
  For me personally, the short answer is yes the vintage amps are better. My Sansui 9090db sounds as good or better than any hp amp that I've owned and I've owned quite a few.


----------



## LugBug1

+1 ^^ 
   
  It also depends on what headphones you are using as its all about matching. Some sensitive headphones may not play well with powerful vintage gear so ideally try before you buy if possible. 
   
  But as far a sound quality goes, my vintage amps are far superior in regards to dynamics, quality bass and smoothness than any dedicated hp amp I've tried. I've owned a couple of Schitt amps and I think they are very good. But they do have a certain sound. Its clinical and very neutral. This may well be your bag, but I personally prefer a bit more warmth. Also there is the money factor, for the price of a Magni you could pick up a lower end Pioneer for e'g. And believe me there will no comparison!


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I'd take the Marantz off your hands if you don't like them  I don't think my 2220B sounds all that great pretty much what you said I'd agree with about the 2220B but my 4240 sounds excellent especially the Dolby EQ sounds amazing, I think the 4240 sounds better than my HK 670. I'd love to get a 4300 or 2270. I am hoping to get this 2238B near me after the first of the month unless some *insert nasty word here* suddenly gets interest in it and takes it




That nasty word isn't Oregonian, is it? No mo amps/receivers for me - 6 is enough for now.....and if you tell me you have dibs, I'll honor it!


----------



## Oregonian

cheuh said:


> Do you guys think vintage receivers are better than modern headphone desktop amps such as the ones from schitt audio, fiio, or objective2?
> 
> How do we determine what brand and model of vintage receivers are good for driving headphones? Is it by trial and error or should we be looking at some sort of specs of the receiver?




I'm with Matt and LugBug - vintage drives phones incredibly well. My story - used to run a Schiit Magni with a ZO in the chain all the time. It was the only way I could get the bass and depth of sound I wanted.......soon I found my Kenwood KA-5700 amp from 1978, took my iPod, RCA's to the thrift store to give a listen, and immediately knew we were on to something amazing. Right away the bass needed no extra emphasis and my ZO collection went from 3 to one (and that is not being used). 

Mostly, and this is generalizing big time, a silver faced amp or receiver from any of the names you read in the last few pages of this thread are safe. Kenwood, Pioneer, Marantz, Akai, Sherwood, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sansui to name a few.


----------



## MattTCG

My story is similar. I had an early 90's Denon receiver that impressed me but it wasn't quite good enough to replace dedicated hp amps. Then I started reading about the vintage gear from the 70's. Took an ipod with an RCA cable to this guys house and listened to the Pioneer sx-650 on my MD's. Everything that I'd been chasing with hp amps was there...easily.


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> @@Skylab, I love seeing pictures of your man cave. ... It took me two looks to notice that your tv is not on a table, but speakers. Are those S-1010's?




Good eye! The TV is actually on top of a pair of Pioneer S-910 speakers, which are connected to my 1980 via a set of PartsExpress 80 Hz low pass filters...meaning that they basically serve as subwoofers, in addition to a TV stand 

The speakers in the foreground that I have been listening to lately are the B&W DM-16's. Behind those are in fact a pair of Pioneer S-1010's, and on top a pair of Infinity Kappa 6.

I'm only currently getting away with that because the couch I had down there before the flood in April hasn't been replaced yet, once the new couch comes, I have to get rid of the S-1010 an the Kappa 6...which of course I don't really want to, but I really can't complain, my wife lets me maintain three separate systems in our house. The rule though is they have to be very orderly, on nice racks, wires hidden, etc etc. The man cave has bulged a bit during the summer


----------



## moodyrn

Silent, big congrats on getting "the beast" back. I can't wait to read your impressions of it!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Silent, big congrats on getting "the beast" back. I can't wait to read your impressions of it!!


 
   
  Thanks. I picked it up @ 2200 hours. Then hung out with some folks, left the amp inside the trunk. Came crawlin' back to the hotel near sunrise only to look up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




at this huge mountain with three separate climbs:
   
  1. Fatigue
  2. No Din > RCA Out cable
  3. Card reader for pc stopped working; mini usb cord for Nikon packed away in storage.
   
  So, I got pix I can't share. And an iPod I can't play. But I still have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




the Sansui. Will go to the stores late this afternoon and try to buy a quick-fix, so I can get a listen in.


----------



## bce22

So i picked up the Luxman R-1120 today.  It was actually meewoo's!  So besides getting a beatiful vintage receiver I had an opportunity to meet a fellow Head-Fier.
   
  All in all. It's been a great day.
   
  No impressions yet as i am just hooking it up now.  Impressions and pics to follow.


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> For me personally, the short answer is yes the vintage amps are better. My Sansui 9090db sounds as good or better than any hp amp that I've owned and I've owned quite a few.


 
 Quote:


lugbug1 said:


> But as far a sound quality goes, my vintage amps are far superior in regards to dynamics, quality bass and smoothness than any dedicated hp amp I've tried. I've owned a couple of Schitt amps and I think they are very good. But they do have a certain sound. Its clinical and very neutral. This may well be your bag, but I personally prefer a bit more warmth. Also there is the money factor, for the price of a Magni you could pick up a lower end Pioneer for e'g. And believe me there will no comparison!


 
   
  That's very interesting to hear. I'll [size=small]definitely [/size]look into them some more if these vintage amps are as good or superior to modern headphone amps. 
   
  Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Mostly, and this is generalizing big time, a silver faced amp or receiver from any of the names you read in the last few pages of this thread are safe. Kenwood, Pioneer, Marantz, Akai, Sherwood, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sansui to name a few.


 
   
  Those are a lot different brands to try out. From all those brands, I'm assuming each have different models/series? Are there any certain series/models or amp specifications I should be looking at?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> So i picked up the Luxman R-1120 today.  It was actually meewoo's!  So besides getting a beatiful vintage receiver I had an opportunity to meet a fellow Head-Fier.
> 
> All in all. It's been a great day.
> 
> No impressions yet as i am just hooking it up now.  Impressions and pics to follow.


 
   
  Reading of this account made it a great day as well... congrats!


----------



## Oregonian

I have been out of town for about a week, and before I left had to drop off my Spec 2 amp with my local guru to trace down a pesky noise issue..............after about 10 minutes of use, the left channel was getting scratchy and basically sounding horrible.  This was the second time in the shop for this...............he said, "well, if I can't fix it I'll refund your money"................leaving me to say, "what do you mean if you can't fix it????".  He smiles and says, "it happens". 
   
  Well, I got a call mid-week................"good news.  It was a cracked solder joint.  Come get it - no charge."  I'm sitting here listening to a 1973 pressing of Dark Side of the Moon that came in while I was out................and I'm in heaven.  Started side one through my Klipsch speakers, now side two is my D7000's.  Heaven I tell ya.  THIS is how to come back from vacation.


----------



## Rawrbington

aha!
  another klipsch owner in the vintage amp thread.
  you can't hide from me.
  which klipsch do you have?
  im a bit of a fanatic.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Is the volume at maximum on your iPad?


 
  About 90% and if I listen with my speaker only then I put the volume to 8:00 and loud enough


----------



## Silent One

I'm torn! Yesterday, I found a pair of Khorns that look to be in great shape, respectable price (I think). And I got NO place
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to put them. My Sansui needs new playmates.
   
  Gonna see if I can get lucky before summer's end and uncover maybe some JBL Studio monitors. Mind you, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the vintage one's worth having and discussing.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> aha!
> another klipsch owner in the vintage amp thread.
> you can't hide from me.
> which klipsch do you have?
> im a bit of a fanatic.


 

 KG 3.2's walnut finish.  My buddy gave them to me for free - sitting in his garage for the past 15 years and three moves................
   
  I like them.


----------



## bce22

silent one said:


> I'm torn! Yesterday, I found a pair of Khorns that look to be in great shape, respectable price (I think). And I got NO place
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If the price is right Just do it! You can always make room for speakers.  



silent one said:


> Reading of this account made it a great day as well... congrats!




Thanks a million Silent!


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> KG 3.2's walnut finish.  My buddy gave them to me for free - sitting in his garage for the past 15 years and three moves................
> 
> I like them.


 

 Ahhh i love the Walnut finished klipsch.  Probably my favorite of their classic finishes.  I've not hear those kg's.  have heard the older kg 4. bet they sound fantastic with that SPEC.  My forte's used to love pioneer sx 950.
  i just never could understand how someone could dislike the klipsch like the kgs and other heritage models.  Unless they are opposed to detail imaging and DYNAMICS.


----------



## bce22

Sitting here listening to Norah Jones 192k/24bit through the Luxman on the Cornwalls and I got to say it's exactly what I wanted! Definitely warmer and more intimate than the realistic. Definitely they are in the same ballpark, but the Luxman just has something special about it with these horns.


----------



## Oregonian

rawrbington said:


> Ahhh i love the Walnut finished klipsch.  Probably my favorite of their classic finishes.  I've not hear those kg's.  have heard the older kg 4. bet they sound fantastic with that SPEC.  My forte's used to love pioneer sx 950.
> i just never could understand how someone could dislike the klipsch like the kgs and other heritage models.  Unless they are opposed to detail imaging and DYNAMICS.




Yeah, I've read a lot of Klipsch negativity and can't understand it. 

What do you listen to? And what have you had? 

My other speakers, also given to me are a pair of early '70's Sansui S-1500 towers (pays to help your buddies out over and over - it does come back to you). Brighter than the Klipsch but I like them too. I sometimes run all four and air it out a bit.........that amp drives all four quite nicely.


----------



## Trav

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> haha great stuff!
> 
> Man cave + SX1980 + Pink Floyd = Happy man!


 
  Rod Serling voice: You've fallen into a vintage heaven, hidden in a man cave...is this a dream? is this reality?


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> That nasty word isn't Oregonian, is it? No mo amps/receivers for me - 6 is enough for now.....and if you tell me you have dibs, I'll honor it!


 
  no its not you! it's just usually this is what happens to me, If I want it, it will not be there when I can obtain it! just like AKG K180 headphones I have been dying to get for two years now. they've popped up on ebay out of the blue several of them and since I want them well......... so does everyone else it seems :/ I bid on one and I was the highest bidder of $11.50 but someone bid $100 on them at the last minute (I highly suspect it was a fake account by the seller who did a shill bid because they didn't buy them...) and thanks to awful Sprint I accidentally bid $102.50 because it would not go through four times on full 3G and got them almost had a heart attack... I quickly apologized to the fella and said I don't have that much money but he seemed very very odd. anyways I hope that 2238B will still be available and they take $100 for it!


----------



## harrinj

I have three original 1973 pressings of DSOTM one I got for free last week along with a mint 'The Wall' (I got six of those on LP now) and Meddle (3 of em, however all three of my Meddle's arent very good), one 2011 DSOTM vinyl (I don't like it) and a DSOTM MFSL Original Master Recording vinyl of it that sounds amazing. BUT someone on a certain site (if you know how to obtain it) uploaded a truly wonderful MFSL vinyl of it, it's just incredible! he also uploaded the Division Bell 24/192 there is absolutely no surface noise that I could here and it was so clear it's as if PF had released an audiophile version just for us audiophiles it was so INCREDIBLE. He used a $3,400 ADC for friggen sakes on The Division Bell LP!


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I have three original 1973 pressings of DSOTM one I got for free last week along with a mint 'The Wall' (I got six of those on LP now) and Meddle (3 of em, however all three of my Meddle's arent very good), one 2011 DSOTM vinyl (I don't like it) and a DSOTM MFSL Original Master Recording vinyl of it that sounds amazing. BUT someone on a certain site (if you know how to obtain it) uploaded a truly wonderful MFSL vinyl of it, it's just incredible! he also uploaded the Division Bell 24/192 there is absolutely no surface noise that I could here and it was so clear it's as if PF had released an audiophile version just for us audiophiles it was so INCREDIBLE. He used a $3,400 ADC for friggen sakes on The Division Bell LP!




Meddle I actually done have. Are you collecting them or do you sell them?

Every time I see Doug, he has new inventory. Seems it turns a lot but that Kenwood pair I took that photo for you is still there. Had a great 1971 pair of Akai solid wood speakers too......and a couple of new reel to reels. 

Yep, vintage porn.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> If the price is right Just do it! You can always make room for speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm in the middle of relocating out of town - have not found a place to stay. And paying storage costs isn't in the budget. However, what I am considering - it just "hit" me - is perhaps, buy them and loan them out to a local head-fier or two for a few months. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _That'd solve everything._


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm in a similar spot with a pair of vintage JBL 4311's. I'll be moving in a few months and I have too much already, but ohhhh man they are calling to me.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Meddle I actually done have. Are you collecting them or do you sell them?
> 
> Every time I see Doug, he has new inventory. Seems it turns a lot but that Kenwood pair I took that photo for you is still there. Had a great 1971 pair of Akai solid wood speakers too......and a couple of new reel to reels.
> 
> Yep, vintage porn.


 
  I collect them. I have got them all except Piper at The Gates of Dawn, however I do have a mint 'A Nice Pair' that includes that album and A Saucerful of Secrets. I was so excited to find The Division Bell one day at my local Record Store for $80, it was a Brazilian copy.. I found an unopened copy of The Division Bell at Hot Poop Record Store in Walla Walla, WA but it was $200! rich kids college and damn hipsters! an below average copy of 'The Wall' and 'Meddle' was $90 there! a day before I got a NM 'The Wall' on vinyl at Adventures Underground in Richland, WA for $21 no tax! you have to go to record stores where there are NO HIPSTERS. Hipsters ruin everything.

 Yeah I saw that Kenwood KA-7100 when I picked up my HK 670 the next day. I hope he puts out that GORGEOUS Marantz 4300 he was working on there! Did you see that sexy Pioneer receiver he's got there in the middle of the store next to the counter? people bring their stuff there and if they don't pick them up he sells them. Here's to hoping that 4300 does not get picked up B-)


----------



## Silent One

@ PhoenixG
   
  I think sending them on loan will work for us brilliantly! Well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 with the right home audio luvr.


----------



## Hente

So I spotted a Marantz 2015 on craigslist for $65 and assuming he still has it, I'll be bringing the following to test out the thing, will this be okay or is there anything else that I should take along?
K240 Sextetts & Takstar HI-2050
Sansa Fuze with a 3.5 -> RCA cable
He should have a pair of speakers to test it out in the speaker out department as well.

One more question about the Maranz, is there any way to use either the HP out or Speaker out separately? I want to use both my speakers and headphones for it, but only want to use one at a time.


----------



## Silent One

Hotel side with the mobile hook-up! iPod>Sansui G-22000>HD650. 
   
  DSLR pix to follow soon, pc usb driver difficulties. iPhone pix for now...
   
  Also, Line-Out to RCA Din connector is packed away; Headphone Out > RCA > AUX IN has a bit lower resolution.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hotel side with the mobile hook-up! iPod>Sansui G-22000>HD650.
> 
> DSLR pix to follow soon, pc usb driver difficulties. iPhone pix for now...
> 
> Also, Line-Out to RCA Din connector is packed away; Headphone Out > RCA > AUX IN has a bit lower resolution.


 
  Brilliant mate, looks amazing! 
   
  The ipod looks a bit sheepish sat next to the beast haha


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





hente said:


> One more question about the Maranz, is there any way to use either the HP out or Speaker out separately? I want to use both my speakers and headphones for it, but only want to use one at a time.


 
  Just unplug your headphones when you want to use speakers. There'll be a 'speaker off' option as well for when you only want to use headphones.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Brilliant mate, looks amazing!
> ...


 
   
  Thanks. My DSLR pix are stuck on the Nikon temporarily. I shot the amp put together in the horizontal position.... man that thing looks big spread out sideways!


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Hotel side with the mobile hook-up! iPod>Sansui G-22000>HD650.
> 
> DSLR pix to follow soon, pc usb driver difficulties. iPhone pix for now...
> 
> Also, Line-Out to RCA Din connector is packed away; Headphone Out > RCA > AUX IN has a bit lower resolution.




That Sansui is gorgeous........


----------



## Skylab

Indeed it is!!!! Very nice, SO.  She's working perfectly?


----------



## Trav

harrinj said:


> I collect them. I have got them all except Piper at The Gates of Dawn, however I do have a mint 'A Nice Pair' that includes that album and A Saucerful of Secrets. I was so excited to find The Division Bell one day at my local Record Store for $80, it was a Brazilian copy.. I found an unopened copy of The Division Bell at Hot Poop Record Store in Walla Walla, WA but it was $200! rich kids college and damn hipsters! an below average copy of 'The Wall' and 'Meddle' was $90 there! a day before I got a NM 'The Wall' on vinyl at Adventures Underground in Richland, WA for $21 no tax! you have to go to record stores where there are NO HIPSTERS. Hipsters ruin everything.
> 
> 
> Yeah I saw that Kenwood KA-7100 when I picked up my HK 670 the next day. I hope he puts out that GORGEOUS Marantz 4300 he was working on there! Did you see that sexy Pioneer receiver he's got there in the middle of the store next to the counter? people bring their stuff there and if they don't pick them up he sells them. Here's to hoping that 4300 does not get picked up B-)


I had an original Piper at the Gates if Dawn that vanished...


----------



## Trav

silent one said:


> Hotel side with the mobile hook-up! iPod>Sansui G-22000>HD650.
> 
> DSLR pix to follow soon, pc usb driver difficulties. iPhone pix for now...
> 
> Also, Line-Out to RCA Din connector is packed away; Headphone Out > RCA > AUX IN has a bit lower resolution.


Wow!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Indeed it is!!!! Very nice, SO.  She's working perfectly?


 
   
  Thanks. As far as I can tell, she's doing whatever it is 'Miss Sansui' does when wearing the crown out in public...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 _looking pretty._ Currently, limited by the iPod and I'm really anxious to put it through its paces, properly so. Like the final instrumental break in Donald Fagen's "New Frontier" @ with 1:55 minutes remaining, cranked! I use to really move air inside the D7000 wooden cups when mated to the SX-D7000!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> That Sansui is gorgeous........


 
   
  When I wheeled the SX-D7000 & G-22000 into the lobby on the hotel gurney, a couple checking in along with the front-desk clerk asked if I was in a band.


----------



## moodyrn

She's a rare breed. Sexy but at the same time looks as if she could kick my butt as well. That's the real beauty and the beast!!


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Hotel side with the mobile hook-up! iPod>Sansui G-22000>HD650.
> 
> DSLR pix to follow soon, pc usb driver difficulties. iPhone pix for now...
> 
> Also, Line-Out to RCA Din connector is packed away; Headphone Out > RCA > AUX IN has a bit lower resolution.


 
  I think Audio specialties in Portland, OR had one of these. it was HUGE.


----------



## Silent One

I wish the affordable train hadn't left the station already - would love to acquire some Nak/Dragon pieces including that DAC!


----------



## penmarker

About to pull the trigger on the Onkyo A-45. How you guys reckon? Guy is asking $100 for it but I guess I can lower it a few bucks.
   
http://www.hifiengine.com/library/onkyo/a-45.shtml


----------



## DefQon

Due to the influence of this thread on me, you guys don't know how spastic I have gone over the past week looking on ebay everyday for vintage integrated amp's. Skipping out the entire Marantz stuff all together (as I find them too warm and glossed over detail sounding), what particular Sansui, Luxman or Sony amplifiers should I look for? I've read that the AU series of the Sansui is a good entry into the Sansui clean sound.


----------



## gikigill

Don't forget Sherwood, very underrated. Built like tanks with huge power supplies. 
Currently getting a vintage Onkyo 7090 with a dual mono power supply 800w and the Sherwood AD260B next week with a 600w power supply. Melbourne is rife with vintage deals.


----------



## DefQon

I'm assuming 70's era for the Sherwoods? Alot of Sherwood stuff was pretty crap and basic. I'm looking for an amp that has Big caps and heatsinks and maybe dual trafos or Big enclosed shielded torodials. Melb does have lots of vintage stuff, but the good stuff have high commanding prices.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





defqon said:


> I'm assuming 70's era for the Sherwoods? Alot of Sherwood stuff was pretty crap and basic. I'm looking for an amp that has Big caps and heatsinks and maybe dual trafos or Big enclosed shielded torodials. Melb does have lots of vintage stuff, but the good stuff have high commanding prices.


 
   
  Early to mid 70s is what you want.  The S-7000 series.  Big power supplies and the like.  After that period things went downhill fast.


----------



## gikigill

The AD series is good too.


----------



## penmarker

What about Sansui 3900? Someone posted the picture a while back maybe in 2011, but I can't find the comment on it.


----------



## ssrock64

Yeah, I've always had good experiences with old Sherwood stuff (up to about 1978, if my memory of build dates on my equipment serves me correctly). A decade later, though, they'd fallen incredibly hard.

An update on my Dynaco disaster is due now, I think. I'd been delaying because I wanted my ST-120 back from the shop, but the pace of business is pretty slow and parts are being ordered this week.

Though that's painful, I would no longer classify my purchases as disastrous. I'm significantly enjoying the PAT-4 as a receiver and headphone amp with both the Mad Dog and PS1000, though the T5p doesn't jive so well. There is some distortion in the bass that needs to be remedied with a mod, but it only comes out every once in awhile.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Due to the influence of this thread on me, you guys don't know how spastic I have gone over the past week looking on ebay everyday for vintage integrated amp's. Skipping out the entire Marantz stuff all together (as I find them too warm and glossed over detail sounding), what particular Sansui, Luxman or Sony amplifiers should I look for? I've read that the AU series of the Sansui is a good entry into the Sansui clean sound.


 

 Late 70's Kenwood (KA-5700 I have two of and the KA-7100 series is excellent as well) and Pioneer should be in the mix as well.  Realistic (Radio Shack) sound good as well (I have a STA-64B in my office at work).  Sherwood, yes...............


----------



## ssrock64

I don't really understand the hype over vintage Kenwood stuff. It's always sounded...lazy to me. Way too warm, not at all resolving...
   
  Maybe I just haven't heard the right gear.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I don't really understand the hype over vintage Kenwood stuff. It's always sounded...lazy to me. Way too warm, not at all resolving...
> 
> Maybe I just haven't heard the right gear.


 
   
  My fully recapped Kenwood KA 8100 is an amazing amp. Super impactful, neutral, detailed, not warm but not sterile. I can't stop listening. It's totally my thing. And I own Pioneer SX1010, Pioneer SX1080, Pioneer SA9800, Marantz 2285b, Kenwood KA 907.
   
  Yep, I love me some Kenwood


----------



## 5aces

claybum said:


> Yep, I love me some Kenwood




Time to fly that Kenwood Banner from the rafters, some guy has been trying to sell this on CAM since May...


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I don't really understand the hype over vintage Kenwood stuff. It's always sounded...lazy to me. Way too warm, not at all resolving...
> 
> Maybe I just haven't heard the right gear.


 

 May be just your preference.  I've got two of them and like them both a lot.  And have a Pioneer, Realistic and Yamaha to compare to.   Different strokes/different folks.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





defqon said:


> Due to the influence of this thread on me, you guys don't know how spastic I have gone over the past week looking on ebay everyday for vintage integrated amp's. Skipping out the entire Marantz stuff all together (as I find them too warm and glossed over detail sounding), what particular Sansui, Luxman or Sony amplifiers should I look for? I've read that the AU series of the Sansui is a good entry into the Sansui clean sound.


 
  Apparently the earlier Sansui's are warmer and more tubey sounding compared to the later models. Also bare is mind The AU series spans 1970-82. My AU-505 is from 73 and has a very warm but hard to resist sound. If you are looking for a cleaner sounding Sansui I'd look for late 70's. 
   
  Below is a good reference index for models with orginal price and year.
   
http://www.classicaudio.com/value/san/index.html


----------



## moodyrn

Yes kenwood is a very under-rated brand. For one reason. Back in the day, they didn't advertise much over here. So many of their gems were unknown. Many might not know it, but the very highly regarded accuphase brand is in fact kenwood. What really started it all was the supreme series 500/600/650 which is very highly regarded which later involved into the super rare ka-907. Kenwood then began to separate their high end stuff such as the 907 and supreme series with the accuphase brand. So kenwood better known as kensonic labs, really knew their stuff and was second to none. I would have really been gaga over a mint sx1280 I recently bought if it wasn't for the 907. As much as I didn't it to,  it simply got beat out in all areas by the 907 . But not to sell the sx1280 short, it's the best solid state vintage receiver I've ever owned or listened to(other than a fully restored 9090db), but the 907 is just special. I really can't wait to get that bad boy recapped.
   
  A couple of very highly reguarded repair specialist over at audiokarma told me in an email, the 907 is simply one of the best integrated ever produced in any era. But due to it's high speed design, once the caps goes out of spec, the sounds quality suffers more than any vintage amp they've worked on. And it doesn't matter if the caps are still good, just being out of spec will significantly change the sound. So as good as it sounds now, I'm only hearing a small part of it's full potential. Unfortunately, one is booked up for a year, and the other one is two years backed up. So, I'm still on the search for a good repair man.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Time to fly that Kenwood Banner from the rafters, some guy has been trying to sell this on CAM since May...


 
   
  Haha, I know someone will stand up, but not hanging a banner like this. Cool!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I almost couldn't recognize you since you changed your avatar. Where is the cool motorcycle now?? BTW, ur current avatar looks soso.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> Where is the cool motorcycle now?? BTW, ur current avatar looks soso.




Good to see you.
The velour banner is $150 to show your pride!
Yea, the avatar is to represent member *|joker| July* his head not mine, personally I think any animated figurine ear buds would be a huge hit...sure money!
The old Indian motor bike avatar is still in the profile, new avatar theme every 1st of the month if you can be bothered to change.

Owning vintage does not come without inherent perils.
The Sansui AU 20000 is in the shop awaiting a new power switch, won't be as difficult to source as some other amplifiers.
Hoping the repair will last my lifetime, not going to use a power bar to switch it on/off, I know some people do that to avoid the dreaded power switch failure.

I keep looking at a Luxman PD-121 turntable with an Infinity Black Widow graphite arm, just like the look even if it is a middle of the road table.
I know you enjoy the Lux gears.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Yes kenwood is a very under-rated brand. For one reason. Back in the day, they didn't advertise much over here. So many of their gems were unknown. Many might not know it, but the very highly regarded accuphase brand is in fact kenwood. What really started it all was the supreme series 500/600/650 which is very highly regarded which later involved into the super rare ka-907. Kenwood then began to separate their high end stuff such as the 907 and supreme series with the accuphase brand. So kenwood better known as kensonic labs, really knew their stuff and was second to none. I would have really been gaga over a mint sx1280 I recently bought if it wasn't for the 907. As much as I didn't it to,  it simply got beat out in all areas by the 907 . But not to sell the sx1280 short, it's the best solid state vintage receiver I've ever owned or listened to(other than a fully restored 9090db), but the 907 is just special. I really can't wait to get that bad boy recapped.
> 
> A couple of very highly reguarded repair specialist over at audiokarma told me in an email, the 907 is simply one of the best integrated ever produced in any era. But due to it's high speed design, once the caps goes out of spec, the sounds quality suffers more than any vintage amp they've worked on. And it doesn't matter if the caps are still good, just being out of spec will significantly change the sound. So as good as it sounds now, I'm only hearing a small part of it's full potential. Unfortunately, one is booked up for a year, and the other one is two years backed up. So, I'm still on the search for a good repair man.


 
   
  Great post moodryn. Love the info
   
  I purchased my KA 907 off ebay. It was listed as recapped. The mids and highs are excellent, but the bass seems to be lacking in weight. I ran the amp in for 100 hours as I believe the caps are not fully burned in. Still sounds the same. The headphone out sounds great and I believe is a different amp. But I know the main amp is not right in the bass. Any thoughts???
   
  I have been planning to take it in to get looked at.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Great post moodryn. Love the info
> 
> I purchased my KA 907 off ebay. It was listed as recapped. The mids and highs are excellent, but the bass seems to be lacking in weight. I ran the amp in for 100 hours as I believe the caps are not fully burned in. Still sounds the same. The headphone out sounds great and I believe is a different amp. But I know the main amp is not right in the bass. Any thoughts???
> 
> I have been planning to take it in to get looked at.


 

 I'll say this - my KA-5700 integrateds have very strong bass.  May be something amiss with your unit as you suspect.


----------



## moodyrn

Maybe you should take a look under the hood and see if it really was recapped. Even my stock 907 have some of the most thunderous bass I've ever heard. And yes, the headphone out is Infact a separate dedicated hp amp. A really good one too.


----------



## claybum

Thanks, Yes opening it up would be the most obvious, AND SOMEHOW DIDN'T CROSS MY MIND. I don't know how I even get through the day.


----------



## moodyrn

Are you being sarcastic? The part in caps would seem so. I hope not. You asked question and I tried to give you an opinionated answer. Some people wouldn't even want to bother with opening up an amp since not everyone is tech savvy, which is why I made the suggestion.


----------



## Skylab

There is a fully restored (by the famous EchoWars no less) Kenwood Supreme 600 on Barter Town at AK right now that I have had to actively resist, in spite of absolutely not needing it...


----------



## claybum

No sarcasm at all. I had not thought about opening it up because it never crossed my mind that someone would sell a recapped amp that wasn't recapped. I appreciated your response very much and yes, I am not very tech savvy. I always pay someone to look an my amps.
   
  And I can see how my post would look sarcastic. My apologies.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Thanks, Yes opening it up would be the most obvious, AND SOMEHOW DIDN'T CROSS MY MIND. I don't know how I even get through the day.


 
   
  So did you actually check it? I wasn't sure if that was indeed sarcasm.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol echowars is the one of the ones I spoke of earlier who is backed up two years. He's pretty much an icon over at ak right now, and for good reason. He does amazing work. Cdkands is the other one. His website has some great pics of a 907 restoration process.


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> No sarcasm at all. I had not thought about opening it up because it never crossed my mind that someone would sell a recapped amp that wasn't recapped. I appreciated your response very much and yes, I am not very tech savvy. I always pay someone to look an my amps.
> 
> And I can see how my post would look sarcastic. My apologies.




No problem, I was just wondering. Like I said in a previous post, not everyone is comfortable opening up an amp. But I can tell you from experience, some people will say whatever just to make more money. It's sad but true.

 I see gear on the bay all the time list as recapped and restored but the pics say otherwise. Hopefully this isn't the case with yours. If it was restored, maybe it wasn't a good one, such as using cheap components or bad soler joints. It's crucial to find someone who really knows what they are doing when it comes to vintage gear. I've talked to a few people about doing mine and could immediately tell based off what they were saying that I wouldn't trust them to do it right. 

Matt I'm sending you a text right now, thanks for that pm.


----------



## claybum

Good luck with finding a recap moodyrn. The guy who sold me the KA 8100 did a great job based on how it sounds and being able to meet him at his house. I don't know if he takes on outside jobs. He is repoman2k1 on ebay.
   
  The guy who sold me the KA 907 had great ebay feedback and had sold many vintage amps. Always a risk though.  I will get the amp looked at soon. Thanks!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I'll say this - my KA-5700 integrateds have very strong bass.  May be something amiss with your unit as you suspect.


 
  I just have to say my KA-7100 is truly excellent and with KEF 103/4's? WOW! it's very open and detailed even with headphones, my KR-7400 is not but it needs re-capped badly.


----------



## gikigill

Dammit, now I want a Kenwood.


----------



## PhoenixG

Just to throw in my two cents, I've had two Kenwood TOTL receivers and they have a very similar signature - detailed and clear, but distinctly warm. Not annoyingly so, but it's a presence that's just there on the edge of perception and you either like it or you don't. The KR-9600 was a super cool monster with a very refined quality, and the KR-790 had a similar sound with slightly less power and more updated looks.
  If y'all had to characterize me, I'd be an east coast fanatic. Pioneer TOTL with McIntosh speakers and I'm in frikkin' nirvana, so I've passed on my Kenwoods to people who like a more "west coast" sound.
   
  ***
  And if you ask nicely, I still have the KR-790 in the back room - if anyone wants it send me a PM. I don't mean to put in a shameless plug, but I reeeealy don't want to move it.


----------



## mhamel

His work is outstanding.

One my SA-9100s was completely restored by him, and it is one of the best sounding pieces of gear I own..






moodyrn said:


> Lol echowars is the one of the ones I spoke of earlier who is backed up two years. He's pretty much an icon over at ak right now, and for good reason. He does amazing work. Cdkands is the other one. His website has some great pics of a 907 restoration process.


----------



## ssrock64

I'll have to go back to the shop and see what Kenwood gear I tried out; I must've heard the wrong stuff...


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Just to throw in my two cents, I've had two Kenwood TOTL receivers and they have a very similar signature - detailed and clear, but distinctly warm. Not annoyingly so, but it's a presence that's just there on the edge of perception and you either like it or you don't. The KR-9600 was a super cool monster with a very refined quality, and the KR-790 had a similar sound with slightly less power and more updated looks.
> If y'all had to characterize me, I'd be an east coast fanatic. Pioneer TOTL with McIntosh speakers and I'm in frikkin' nirvana, so I've passed on my Kenwoods to people who like a more "west coast" sound.
> 
> ***
> And if you ask nicely, I still have the KR-790 in the back room - if anyone wants it send me a PM. I don't mean to put in a shameless plug, but I reeeealy don't want to move it.


 
  I've owned the 9600 too. And although a very nice sounding monster receiver, the supreme series is a different animal. But I do agree with what you said about the 9600. It's warm without being marantz type warm, and a very refined musical sounding machine. Although I do like the pioneer sx1280 better. It's a little more refined and dynamic. But once you step up to the supreme line, the who sound signature changes. Very neutral, without being analytical. The transparency is just outstanding. But that line is a very rare breed though and hard to come by.
   
  With the kennys I've listened to so far, I would classify the brand as a whole as being very good, and right up there with the pioneer, marantz, and sansui's of the world. But the supreme series is just state of the art, and don't even sound like kenwoods in general.


----------



## moodyrn

Other gems are the ka-9100/8100 integraged, kr-9050, and ka-801 in addition to the others that owners discuss here. But the bottom line is, there are so many vintage gems from many brands. It's the thing that makes vintage audio so fun.We can start a similar discussion with so many different vintage brands. Some don't even get talked about here much at all.  I've owned a ton of vintage gear, and I've only scratched the surface. And many of them hold their value very well. Everytime I've decided to move on to something else, I've had no problem getting my money back.


----------



## joehalo

One brand I never hear mentioned on this thread is Yamaha. I love my CR-820, build quality and sound are top notch. I feel the sound is very neutral and detailed. Anyone else have any vintage Yamaha?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> One brand I never hear mentioned on this thread is Yamaha. I love my CR-820, build quality and sound are top notch. I feel the sound is very neutral and detailed. Anyone else have any vintage Yamaha?


 
  *****Raises hand*****. I own a Cr-1020.  I agree with you. I also own Pioneer SX 950 and I prefer the Yamaha to the Pioneer. 
   
  My dark horse is my Lafayette LR-5555A by far my favorite receiver (with head phones)and it was 35 bucks!


----------



## joehalo

Cool! I hope to score a CR-2020 one day. Funny.. I also have a Pioneer SX-950 and prefer the sound of my Yamaha. I've never heard or seen any Lafayette gear.. interesting! Any Pics?


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Cool! I hope to score a CR-2020 one day. Funny.. I also have a Pioneer SX-950 and prefer the sound of my Yamaha. I've never heard or seen any Lafayette gear.. interesting! Any Pics?


 
   
  Not the prettiest receiver I have in the collection, but man can she drive Head phones.


----------



## joehalo

Nice! Looks very clean!


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Nice! Looks very clean!


 
  Thanks.


----------



## harrinj

my 4240's faceplate has a very small charge to it, is this normal? I know all metal construction probably would but still just wondering...


----------



## calipilot227

I've wondered about this on my SA-8500 as well. Never bothered to get it looked at (if it ain't broke... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> I've wondered about this on my SA-8500 as well. Never bothered to get it looked at (if it ain't broke...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm leaning towards it might be normal but then again... it's very slight like just a tingle


----------



## calipilot227

I was actually getting this on my laptop as well, I discovered that it only occurred when it was plugged into one outlet of my apartment (near my desk). A quick check revealed that the outlet is not grounded... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  My Pioneer on the other hand has only a 2-prong plug, so I'm not sure what's causing it. The only problem I've had with it was the DC offset (almost 1 volt when I first got it, down to 14mv now, those adjustment pots work wonders).


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> my 4240's faceplate has a very small charge to it, is this normal? I know all metal construction probably would but still just wondering...


 
   
   No, not normal at all.


----------



## PhoenixG

I see LaFayette gear fairly regularly down south. Very good value for the quality and features. IMHO not on the same level as similar name-brand equipment, but has every potential to be good. Also, usually costs about 1/5th-1/10th as much as similarly spec'd name brand stuff.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> I see LaFayette gear fairly regularly down south. Very good value for the quality and features. IMHO not on the same level as similar name-brand equipment, but has every potential to be good. Also, usually costs about 1/5th-1/10th as much as similarly spec'd name brand stuff.


 

 I find that same concept with Realistic receivers.  Found a nice one for $15 that sounded awesome through the headphone jack.


----------



## gikigill

Currently sniping a Thorn 4024 on eBay. Looks sweet.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> I see LaFayette gear fairly regularly down south. Very good value for the quality and features. IMHO not on the same level as similar name-brand equipment, but has every potential to be good. Also, usually costs about 1/5th-1/10th as much as similarly spec'd name brand stuff.


 
   
  As far as I know, Lafayette models you can look after are:
  LR-9090, 5555 2020, they are Setton RS-660,440.220 inside. Some claims they were built by Pioneer, some says Fostex.
  Another is LR-120DB, their biggest one which was built by Luxman.


----------



## Fearless1

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> As far as I know, Lafayette models you can look after are:
> LR-9090, 5555 2020, they are Setton RS-660,440.220 inside. Some claims they were built by Pioneer, some says Fostex.
> Another is LR-120DB, their biggest one which was built by Luxman.


 
  Interesting info, thanks!
   
   I have read in the past that the Lr-5555a was Luxman built, but no conformation could be found.


----------



## claybum

So I solved the bass impact problem on my KA 907. I switched out the diy pre amp to amp jumpers in the back with some nice DiMarzio interconnects. This amp is now thumping as it should. I would now say this is the best amp I own. Definitely a step above the KA 8100 I was raving about yesterday. I also listened to my new LCD 3 for the first time on the KA 907 last night. I had thought the LCD 3 was a bit fluffy. It was very solid and impactful on the KA 907. Glad I picked up this amp when I had the chance and will be looking for a backup in the coming years or maybe a supreme 600. cheers!!


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





claybum said:


> So I solved the bass impact problem on my KA 907. I switched out the diy pre amp to amp jumpers in the back with some nice DiMarzio interconnects. This amp is now thumping as it should. I would now say this is the best amp I own. Definitely a step above the KA 8100 I was raving about yesterday. I also listened to my new LCD 3 for the first time on the KA 907 last night. I had thought the LCD 3 was a bit fluffy. It was very solid and impactful on the KA 907. Glad I picked up this amp when I had the chance and will be looking for a backup in the coming years or maybe a supreme 600. cheers!!


 

 Good for you!


----------



## moodyrn

That's great news claybum!! Congrats on solving your issue.


----------



## claybum

Thanks folks
  I'm a happy guy right now.


----------



## harrinj

Beautiful Marantz. I need to change the paper in the 2220B (it looks blue in the pic but it's an ugly greenish yellow) I should probably get the crud off that speaker screen too... lol


----------



## DefQon

Very nice!


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Beautiful Marantz. I need to change the paper in the 2220B (it looks blue in the pic but it's an ugly greenish yellow) I should probably get the crud off that speaker screen too... lol




That. Is. Gorgeous. Like a wall of vintage. How do you choose which to listen to?


----------



## LugBug1

Ok you know the other day, when I said I was done. Apparently I wasn't... Because I've bought some more stuff.  
   
  First of all I snapped up a Marantz 5000 cassette deck up for £8. Yes thats right £8 !! It works as well.
   
  Then because I had already been bitten by the Sansui venom, it was inevitable that I'd have to sample something else. Plus with that hum I was getting on my AU-505, I wanted to see if it was indeed normal with my headphones. So I chose to get another amp from the same period (early to mid 70's) because I've decided that that is the sound for me.
   
  Snapped up a very good condition 551 receiver for £70, seriously it is very close to timewarp condition and came in its original box. Had a quick look inside just to give the switches a quick squirt and there's not even dust inside!
   
  I'm over the moon with the sound. It is cleaner sounding than my au505 and I've put that down to the much better condition it's in. Still seductive with warmth and liquidy smoothness. I know this sound will not be to everyones taste but using the HD800's its ideal. Plus no hum or hissss! Its a keeper for sure 
   

   
   
  and the Marantz

   
   
  And my main set up how it looks today. I've got two dacs behind the scenes so that I can chop n change from Sansui to Marantz with a few clicks on the pc. The tape deck is pretty much just for looks. 

   
  ^ thats my foot.


----------



## MattTCG

Very nice LugBug!! And congrats. You wont get much discouragement about buying new vintage gear here.


----------



## Silent One

When you said you were "Done" I believed you. So now what


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Ok you know the other day, when I said I was done. Apparently I wasn't... Because I've bought some more stuff.
> 
> First of all I snapped up a Marantz 5000 cassette deck up for £8. Yes thats right £8 !! It works as well.
> 
> ...


 

 For the record, I never believed you were done.  We.  Can't.  Help.  Ourselves.
   
  Nice work!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Very nice LugBug!! And congrats. You wont get much discouragement about buying new vintage gear here.


 
  Thanks mate, seriously I don't think I've ever been happier than with the sound I have now with this Sansui. 
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> When you said you were "Done" I believed you. So now what


 
  Haha addicts will say anything!!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> For the record, I never believed you were done.  We.  Can't.  Help.  Ourselves.
> 
> Nice work!


 
  Haha You're right bud, and its a downward spiral with only one outcome.... 
   
  SX1980


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thanks mate, seriously* I don't think I've ever been happier than with the sound I have now with this Sansui. *
> Haha addicts will say anything!!


 
   
  You're talking to someone who owns and listened to the 9090db everyday. I understand what you mean perfectly.


----------



## Skylab

:





lugbug1 said:


> Haha You're right bud, and its a downward spiral with only one outcome....
> 
> SX1980




It's calling you...you know you want one...


----------



## Silent One

I thought American citizens were against torture?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> :
> It's calling you...you know you want one...


 
   
  Bad boy...very bad. That's just down right cruel.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Haha You're right bud, and its a downward spiral with only one outcome....
> 
> SX1980


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> :
> It's calling you...you know you want one...


 
   
   
  +1 Just do it already.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> You're talking to someone who owns and listened to the 9090db everyday. I understand what you mean perfectly.


 
  Yup, they got it right. Soo musical yet detailed. The word 'seductive' keeps springing to mind. I know Marantz gets compared to Sansui from the same period, but although I really like the sound of my 2216b, its the refinement that the Sansui has that beats it hands down imo.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> :
> It's calling you...you know you want one...


 
  She sings to me in my sleep... bekon's me... SeXy1980... I go to her...I play with her tone controls... Then my wife wakes me... 'get up! you gotta go to work!'


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mrq said:


>


 
  I'm waiting to buy yours when your done with it


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Haha You're right bud, and its a downward spiral with only one outcome....
> 
> SX1980


 

 Or a Spec 1/Spec 2 system....................500 wpc of insanity!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Or a Spec 1/Spec 2 system....................500 wpc of insanity!


 
  I'd give my eye teeth for your Pioneer stack mate. Now that's insane!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I'd give my eye teeth for your Pioneer stack mate. Now that's insane!


 
   
  Yeah... but ur wife's announcement will remain unchanged in the morning.


----------



## Silent One

Currently viewing a Nakamichi Amp - PA-7AII for $1,275 on eBay.
   




   
   
  Any thoughts/experience from others with these amps?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Yeah... but ur wife's announcement will remain unchanged in the morning.


 
  Hmmm..  wonder what my wife's life insurance is.....? **stares into space**  SeXy 1980 at my bedside... pretty Pioneer stacks and saucy Sansui towers in every room...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I need help


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I've already looked into this. Gotta be natural causes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kidding of course.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ I've already looked into this. Gotta be natural causes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Tuh... So a 70's receiver (Hitachi or something  accidentally falling on her head won't cut it...?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  'Erm I had put it on top of the wardrobe.. must have fallen off when she opened it officer.'
   
  Oh well back to the drawing board..


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Hmmm..  wonder what my wife's life insurance is.....? **stares into space**  SeXy 1980 at my bedside... pretty Pioneer stacks and saucy Sansui towers in every room...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ I've already looked into this. Gotta be natural causes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
     


   
  "So, what you're saying is that my wife is worth a SX1980?"
   
  "...recapped and restored?"
   
  "Of course."


----------



## LugBug1

haha


----------



## MrQ

buggering Safari format.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Tuh... So a 70's receiver (Hitachi or something  accidentally falling on her head won't cut it...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You guys are seriously cracking me up.................


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently viewing a Nakamichi Amp - PA-7AII for $1,275 on eBay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think this is probably a Nelson Pass design - don't think he ever designed anything bad.  A true hall of fame audio amplifier designer.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats lugbug, that's a really cool looking stack.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Getting in a Marantz 1060 later this afternoon.
> 
> It'll be the first Marantz I've tried or heard, so looking forward to that. Am thinking about possibly using it as a preamp into a HK 730, as I've heard the pre is the weaker part of the 730 (compared to the amp).
> 
> Or it may replace my Yamaha CR-220 for backup headphone amp duties. We'll see, depends on how it sounds compared to the other pieces.


 
   
  Here's the Marantz 1060.  Sounds really smooth - not fatiguing at all, for sure.
   

   
  I just ordered new components and this will be my first total recap of a vintage piece.  This one looks pretty easy to work on, relatively speaking.  At the moment, I'm using it as a pre-amp into a 250W B&K amp since my speakers need more than 30W.  Haven't figured out where this will end up, but most likely in the bedroom.


----------



## gikigill

Also got that Nakamichi in my sights, a seller in Australia is selling one for $1200. It should hang easily with the big boys like Krell.


----------



## Silent One

Re: Nakamichi Amp
   
  So, is that the market for it pretty much, round $1,200-$1,300?


----------



## gikigill

I think so, Pass designs aren't famous for being cheap and Naka has always had great build quality so I would say it's worth it given their track record and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it matches any McIntosh or Naim or Krell pound per pound.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Re: Nakamichi Amp
> 
> So, is that the market for it pretty much, round $1,200-$1,300?


 
   
  I thought those used Naks PA 7 sell for much less than that in the used market, maybe $500 - $800 depending on the condition.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> That. Is. Gorgeous. Like a wall of vintage. How do you choose which to listen to?


 
  I change them out every now and then. I called about a 2238B today that's been on Cragislist for awhile in Coos Bay and it was sold :'(


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Congrats lugbug, that's a really cool looking stack.


 
  Thanks moodyrn


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Here's the Marantz 1060.  Sounds really smooth - not fatiguing at all, for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> I just ordered new components and this will be my first total recap of a vintage piece.  This one looks pretty easy to work on, relatively speaking.  At the moment, I'm using it as a pre-amp into a 250W B&K amp since my speakers need more than 30W.  Haven't figured out where this will end up, but most likely in the bedroom.


 
  I love the look of that amp. There was a one came up recently on fleabay but it at a few knobs missing otherwise I would have went for it. Much nicer looking than the 1050. 
   
  Good luck with the recap and keep us informed how it goes.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Here's the Marantz 1060.  Sounds really smooth - not fatiguing at all, for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> I just ordered new components and this will be my first total recap of a vintage piece.  This one looks pretty easy to work on, relatively speaking.  At the moment, I'm using it as a pre-amp into a 250W B&K amp since my speakers need more than 30W.  Haven't figured out where this will end up, but most likely in the bedroom.


 
  Oh that looks so frigging cool! Marantz <3


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'm torn! Yesterday, I found a pair of Khorns that look to be in great shape, respectable price (I think). And I got NO place
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Careful with that axe, Eugene - is a title of song by Pink Floyd - and my way of cautioning against decisions that, no matter how appealing they may sound, are extremely contraproductive with speakers that have to be placed in room that does not suit them. Rule of thumb - it is much better to have too small speakers in too large a room than vice versa. I know one great installation of Khorns and it is pleasure and joy to listen to them there - before the owner moved from the small flat into present house, listening to the same pair of Khorns was a disgrace. 
   
  It is even more painful to position large full range ESLs for proper effect - with ink invisible at dealer's, there is written "minimum (50) 70-100 meter square room required" - which more than x times dwarfs the already high price tag attached. And that ink WILL become visible once you have them at home - unless you already have those 70+ square meter listening room.
   
  My 2c.


----------



## MattTCG

I have a chance to buy this amp: 
   
  onkyo m-504
   

   
   
  And the pre-amp:
   
onkyo p-304
   
Anybody care to comment?


----------



## gikigill

Do it already.
   
  (Just for the VU meters)


----------



## MattTCG

haha...they meters are maybe the nicest ever come across. But I need to know if the amp and pre are actually any good. And current value would be appreciated. 
   
  Oh my, the Onkyo measures 24x24. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That's WAY bigger than my Sansui...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *analogsurviver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Careful with that axe, Eugene - is a title of song by Pink Floyd - and my way of cautioning against decisions that, no matter how appealing they may sound, are extremely contraproductive with speakers that have to be placed in room that does not suit them. Rule of thumb - it is much better to have too small speakers in too large a room than vice versa. I know one great installation of Khorns and it is pleasure and joy to listen to them there - before the owner moved from the small flat into present house, listening to the same pair of Khorns was a disgrace.
> ...


 
   
  Exuberance... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is my slip showing?


----------



## gikigill

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> haha...they meters are maybe the nicest ever come across. But I need to know if the amp and pre are actually any good. And current value would be appreciated.
> 
> Oh my, the Onkyo measures 24x24.
> 
> ...


 

 Means it has a hefty power supply, which is always a good sign. The Sherwood I am getting this week is rated at 600W but output is rated at 220w RMS..
   
  Wouldn't surprise me to see this thing clocking in at 800W+


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I have a chance to buy this amp:
> 
> onkyo m-504
> 
> ...


 
  Seem to have been popular units and were manufactured up until 2000. In other words 'tried and tested'. If the price is good I'd say go for it. I'm sure you'll be able to sell them on when the time comes. Plus you can always mix and match with that power amp.


----------



## MattTCG

It won't fit on any rack that I own even on top. It would have to go on the floor or I'd have to get a new rack.


----------



## gikigill

The floor it is!


----------



## MattTCG

Gentleman, you are incorrigible!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I can already hear my wife, "baby, what's this thing on the floor that looks like a mini fridge?"


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Gentleman, you are incorrigible!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Can you tell her it is a mini fridge with temperature readout meters?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ This is why Iove this thread!!


----------



## hans030390

I just received this Sansui 5000A yesterday:













It was in very good condition, and it sounds great with the Mad Dog 3.2! It's very powerful and smooth yet surprisingly clean and detailed up top. It might not come out perfect in measurements (more on that next post), but I'm enjoying it thoroughly.


----------



## hans030390

This is a cross post of mine from another forum. Some of it repeats what I said above:

Wow, I can see why people can really get into vintage receivers. The Sansui 5000A sounds great with the Mad Dog 3.2. I wish I had more orthos to try on it. You can tell it's not _quite_ as clean and flat (FR) as some other amps (dedicated headphone amps or not), but there's still something about it that I really like. It sounds surprisingly clear and detailed, smooth, and powerful. Some people have said it's a warm receiver, but I'm not hearing that so much coming from the Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II.

Out of curiosity, I took some RightMark measurements of the headphone out. Setup went PC with Auzentech Bravura, line out to the Sansui set at 24/96 with volume set at 4 (I believe the Windows volume controls the output voltage, because music clips after a volume of 50 or so, and 50 was too high for RMAA tests), and the Sansui HPO went to the line-in (set at 24/96, 100 volume) of the Auzentech Bravura using the stock T50RP cable.

More simply: Auzentech Bravura line-out -> Sansui 5000A -> Sansui HPO -> Auzentech Bravura line-in

The receiver is plugged straight into the wall. The PC is plugged into a surge protector that is plugged into the wall just above the receiver.

I know this isn't an ideal measurement setup, but I'm just working with what I have.

The first thing I noticed was that the FR was a bit tilted towards the treble with the tone knobs set at 0 according to RightMark. I had to adjust those to make the FR as flat as I could. The channel balance was also off a little bit, so I had to correct for that (I hope that's not a sign that I need to fix or adjust something in the receiver...it was a 0.2-0.5dB difference). Once I got the settings narrowed down as best as I could, I got the following results:

Overall:



FR:



Noise:



THD:



IMD:



DR:



Crosstalk:



IMD + Noise (Swept):



The FR looks worse that in is. There's some roll off at the top and bottom, but it's still relatively small (see the scale). Some of this is also due to my sound card. You can still hear the small differences in the FR when compared against flatter amps, but on its own is nothing to worry about. I'm guessing some vintage receivers weren't designed to be entirely ruler flat like companies focus on today...? I could be wrong. I messed with the tone knobs for a while and could not get a perfectly flat response. I can, however, get the treble response boosted up a bit from what you see here. My ears just prefer it being toned down a tiny bit.

One thing that I noticed in the measurements was the 60Hz harmonic distortion and noise. I would think I'd hear humming (ground loop?) through the headphones, but they're nearly silent when plugged into the receiver. I get a low amount of hiss if I turn the volume up on the receiver with nothing playing. It could be that the noise and distortion is still too low to really hear, but I'm not sure. Could it be just be a byproduct of how I measured the HPO and not indicative of how a HP would really perform from the receiver? Or perhaps I'd just hear it as less "clarity" in the most heavily affected regions and not necessarily a hum?

Discounting those 60Hz and harmonic spikes, the dynamic range, noise, and THD are at or better than -90dB above 300Hz. I'd say that's pretty good for a 40+ year old receiver! Once you get to the upper mids and treble, it's pretty darn clean. Sounds that way too.

I'd be really curious to see how the Sansui HPO would measure given a proper setup.

All in all, I'm really liking it so far!


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats on the Sansui!! It's something special IMO. And I agree about the pairing with the MD. Plugging the MD in a Sansui is what got me on this crazy train to begin with. 
   
  Enjoy...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





hans030390 said:


> I just received this Sansui 5000A yesterday:


 
  Thats one lovely looking receiver. Classic early Sansui. I like it indeedy! 
   
  Wish I knew what all those measurements meant on your second post  But that noise that is showing, might become apparent if you were to try some sensitive headphones. The orthos probably aren't picking it up. My Sansui au505 has a low hum thats evident as soon as my sensitive Sennheisers touch the hp out.


----------



## PhoenixG

Well that's really interesting! I haven't had a good look at so many good frequency space graphs since grad school (underwater acoustics/signal processing), but those speak volumes to me. The first I want to look at is the THD test - It looks like there are peaks at your sampling frequencies/harmonics. It would probably be safe to knock at least 20 dB off those peaks due to the harmonic behavior. It might be further aggravated by your sound card. I'm sure a real 90dB peak at 1024 Hz would probably be obvious and audible.
  Your noise level plots and IMD show strong - about 20 dB - peaks at 60 Hz and all its harmonics. Unless you're putting a square wave into it at the wall outlet (it's not hooked to a UPS backup power supply, right? Those things shoot square waves like it's their job), I wouldn't expect to see those from a good power source. The 60 Hz and 120 Hz noise levels are strong enough to make me think a recap in the power supply might be needed to filter that out. Despite the noise levels at the other 60Hz harmonics, they have less power [width] to them and might be helped by tamping down the main 60/120 Hz frequencies. You might not even hear a hum, but it's there and the computer can hear it. If you can't hear it, then it's not urgent at all haha.
  Looking at the overall Frequency response curve, that's actually VERY flat compared to some of the other pieces out there, especially for something that age. It has a textbook roll-off with a corner frequency around 25kHz, which indicates a warm-ish signature. I like the relatively flat bass response, with a loss of only 1.5 dB at 15 Hz. I would expect some serious presence without sounding bloomy.
  That program you're using is impressive. It would probably take me all week(month) to write a program to do all that.
  My favorite thing about frequency response graphs is that I can almost get a feel for what the amp sounds like without listening to it, and I can compare it to any amp. Also, it makes it easy to find what you're looking for in terms of sound signature. Personally, the flatness of your amp is very appealing to me. I typically enjoy sound signatures very similar to that, but I prefer slightly lower IMB+noise levels if possible, and corner frequencies as close as possible to 5Hz and 50-100Hz.


----------



## hans030390

Thanks for the helpful information, Phoenix! The program I used is called RightMark. It's pretty easy to use and is completely free!


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Currently viewing a Nakamichi Amp - PA-7AII for $1,275 on eBay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is basically a 200 watts/ch Threshold from the SA series designed by Nelson Pass. it is very powerful and sweet sounding in the warmer side of solid state designs.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Well that's really interesting! I haven't had a good look at so many good frequency space graphs since grad school (underwater acoustics/signal processing), but those speak volumes to me. The first I want to look at is the THD test - It looks like there are peaks at your sampling frequencies/harmonics. It would probably be safe to knock at least 20 dB off those peaks due to the harmonic behavior. It might be further aggravated by your sound card. I'm sure a real 90dB peak at 1024 Hz would probably be obvious and audible.
> Your noise level plots and IMD show strong - about 20 dB - peaks at 60 Hz and all its harmonics. Unless you're putting a square wave into it at the wall outlet (it's not hooked to a UPS backup power supply, right? Those things shoot square waves like it's their job), I wouldn't expect to see those from a good power source. The 60 Hz and 120 Hz noise levels are strong enough to make me think a recap in the power supply might be needed to filter that out. Despite the noise levels at the other 60Hz harmonics, they have less power [width] to them and might be helped by tamping down the main 60/120 Hz frequencies. You might not even hear a hum, but it's there and the computer can hear it. If you can't hear it, then it's not urgent at all haha.
> Looking at the overall Frequency response curve, that's actually VERY flat compared to some of the other pieces out there, especially for something that age. It has a textbook roll-off with a corner frequency around 25kHz, which indicates a warm-ish signature. I like the relatively flat bass response, with a loss of only 1.5 dB at 15 Hz. I would expect some serious presence without sounding bloomy.
> That program you're using is impressive. It would probably take me all week(month) to write a program to do all that.
> My favorite thing about frequency response graphs is that I can almost get a feel for what the amp sounds like without listening to it, and I can compare it to any amp. Also, it makes it easy to find what you're looking for in terms of sound signature. Personally, the flatness of your amp is very appealing to me. I typically enjoy sound signatures very similar to that, but I prefer slightly lower IMB+noise levels if possible, and corner frequencies as close as possible to 5Hz and 50-100Hz.


 

 Wow, there are really some talented persons here!! I hope PhoenixG can advise us patiently in the future!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Just an off topic question here. Do anyone like Adele?? If you do, could you tell me how you feel about her 18 and 21 CD (not vinyl) mastering? Thanks!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This is basically a 200 watts/ch Threshold from the SA series designed by Nelson Pass. it is very powerful and sweet sounding in the warmer side of solid state designs.


 
   
  Do you happen to know the real difference between MKI and MKII? Some says: MKI is as close as Threshold, but has mechanical issue, MKII has improved the issue but deviated from Stassis topology since Threshold blamed Nakamichi copying. MkII is so different  that even Pass was pissed that he didn't want to Naka labeling Stassis on it
  If you choose, which version would you pick?


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This is basically a 200 watts/ch Threshold from the SA series designed by Nelson Pass. it is very powerful and sweet sounding in the warmer side of solid state designs.


 
  Nakamichi "licensed" the Stasis technology (Class A circuit designed by Pass) from Threshold to use in the PA series of amps. I don't think Pass "designed" the actual Nakamichi amplifiers, just the circuit that Nakamichi licensed from his company, Threshold


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Nakamichi "licensed" the Stasis technology (Class A circuit designed by Pass) from Threshold to use in the PA series of amps. I don't think Pass "designed" the actual Nakamichi amplifiers, just the circuit that Nakamichi licensed from his company, Threshold


 
  That is correct!


----------



## bizkid

Yesterday i got the old Technics SU-7700k from my father which was sitting in our basement for the last 20-30(?) years. It weights a ton and the headphone output sounds great. There's really something about those old receivers, i enjoy this one over the Asgard 2. The Technics is a bit noisy and has some problems with the sound shutting out from time to time. Makes me curious of some of the other old receivers mentioned here.
   
  Pics (not mine):


----------



## Oregonian

bizkid said:


> Yesterday i got the old Technics SU-7700k from my father which was sitting in our basement for the last 20-30(?) years. It weights a ton and the headphone output sounds great. There's really something about those old receivers, i enjoy this one over the Asgard 2. The Technics is a bit noisy and has some problems with the sound shutting out from time to time. Makes me curious of some of the other old receivers mentioned here.
> 
> Pics (not mine):




That's a beaut. Congrats! 

Start with a Deoxit treatment on the pots and switches. May help with the noise issue.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Nakamichi "licensed" the Stasis technology (Class A circuit designed by Pass) from Threshold to use in the PA series of amps. I don't think Pass "designed" the actual Nakamichi amplifiers, just the circuit that Nakamichi licensed from his company, Threshold


 
  You are correct:
  "Nakamichi licensed "Stasis" technology from powerhouse amplifier manufacturer Threshold (a class A amplifier circuit by Nelson Pass, then a designer at Threshold, now at Pass Labs). This circuit was used in a line of expensive Nakamichi PA series of power-amplifiers, such as the PA-5 and PA-7, as well as their SR and TA series of receivers."
Apparently they did not perform the full Stasis implementation due to cost.


----------



## bce22

Oh baby,
   
  Picking up a Scott 299B with a Scott 370 tuner tomorrow! Only problem is no headphone out on this model.  None-the-less they are gonna be great with my Cornwalls!  Can't wait! Here are some of the seller pics.


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ Woowza! They certainly look posh. Even though I don't use speakers at the mo I'd be tempted to buy them anyway for ornamental use. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Stunning. And very unique looking too.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> ^^^ Woowza! They certainly look posh. Even though I don't use speakers at the mo I'd be tempted to buy them anyway for ornamental use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks Lugz!
   
  Plus if I really wanted to I could run my HE 500s off the speaker tabs with an expensive custom cable job.  Right now I am looking for synergy with my cornwalls.  My brother (who I own my house with) is gonna kill me when he finds out I am going to pick up another amp.  That will be two in the last week (I picked up MeeWoo's luxman last saturday).
   
  HAHA!


----------



## mhamel

bce,
   
  Sure you don't want a few more pieces?   I've got some vintage gear for sale and I'm right in Warwick RI.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
     -Mike


----------



## bce22

LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am a born and bred Rhoe DieLanda!
   
  I used to live across from the Walmart on Post Road near the intersection of Warwick Ave before moving to Blackstone MA
   
  What do you got that you want to get rid off?


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





bce22 said:


>


 
  Hey, your signature says "AOL" instead of "ALO". You wouldn't want an LOD from a past-prime internet company, would you?


----------



## bce22

Probably not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  ill fix it when i get on a real PC and not this infuriating samsung tablet.  thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Skylab

*A sad tale of woe with a happy ending*

I had been really enjoying the system I had in my basement, and had been spending a lot of time down there. Very enjoyable space:



Then in April we had some bad flooding in Chicago, and this happened:



I saved a lot, but lost a pair of HPM-100's, a pair of HPM-1100's, the couch, end table, exercise bike, washer, dryer, and fridge. Fortunately, I have insurance.

My wife decided to replace the family room couch and move the one that was there to the basement. The one she ordered ended up taking 14 weeks to arrive! But finally, today, I have the space back! (Plus some new B&W DM-16's). 






Just in time for football season!!! 

I'm going to put the couch up on 6" cinder blocks too...so that a small amount of water wouldn't be an issue (which given all my flood prevention equipment really shouldn't ever happen, thought as April showed me, it can).


----------



## ssrock64

Great comeback; I hope you're enjoying how it sounds after the long wait! Just make sure to put everything away if it ever rains that hard again.


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! Yeah it we are ever forecast to get 8" of rain in 12 hours again, I will bring it all upstairs other than the stuff that is on blocks. Never had more than 5" of water. I have the most massive sump pump on earth, and a secondary pump! But on rare occasions, there is just no keeping up with the water.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very, very, nice!!!


----------



## bce22

Rob,  I am so sorry about the water damage.
   
  i totally understand water in the basement.  i've spent 30k recently to fix the problem. I thought it was fixed and then we had a rainy June in MA and back some came.  My advice is give it a year before you feel "safe".


----------



## Oregonian

So sorry you had to go through that. Mother Nature sometimes shows us who is boss. 

Glad it's back to man-cave approved level. That is a very warm and inviting place to call home! Nice job!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks guys. 

I too have spent $30k+ on this basement trying to waterproof it. Had the whole floor dug out, 6" of gravel, visqueen barrier, 4" of concrete. Drain tile all around the perimeter running into the sump pit. Industrial strength 3 hp non submerged pump, with 1/2 hp backup/secondary pump. Automatic gas-line generator in case power fails. But this last time the water backed up into everyone's basement in my whole town from our combo storm/sewer system being totally overwhelmed. 

I went with the epoxy-painted floor rather than carpet down here for a reason. I know I will never be totally immune. It take a MASSIVE rain event now at least, so I don't have to worry every time it rains. Just when I see people building arks nearby


----------



## bce22

It looks fantastic!  A great place to hang, listen to tunes and watch Football for sure.
   
  Sounds like youve hit the water issue from every angle.  Nothing is worse for a homeowner than water.


----------



## Skylab

That's for sure. It sucks. I've lived in this house 14 years, and we have had water in the basement 4 times. Before I did all the work, we used to get seepage a lot too. No seepage now, but with the way the weather is these days, I don't think I will ever be completely immune from it. Over time though I am trying to make it so that the recovery is simpler in the event it does happen again. My new washer and dryer are 2 feet off the floor. The fridge is on 8" concrete blocks. TV "stand" (which is itself a pair of speakers!) is also. Eventually I will have done enough that the water won't bother 

But yeah, I love it down here. Very chill place to be


----------



## MattTCG

Wonderful looking mancave and listening area Rob!! I will never own another house without a basement. My speaker time is very limited due to disturbing others with my wonderful vintage sound.
   
  Today I scored a new pair of KLH 17's. They are near mint and sound great. Whoops wrong thread.


----------



## gikigill

Okay guys Sansui G3300 or Pioneer SX990? 

Any suggestions?


----------



## bce22

Giki, 
   
  Are you sure the sansui has a "G" in front of it?  I am familiar with the 3300 and the G33000 but not the G3300.
   
  Sorry


----------



## gikigill

Yup G3300 indeed.


----------



## Trav

skylab said:


> *A sad tale of woe with a happy ending*
> 
> I had been really enjoying the system I had in my basement, and had been spending a lot of time down there. Very enjoyable space:
> 
> ...


Major league sump installation?


----------



## roscoofyore

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> This is basically a 200 watts/ch Threshold from the SA series designed by Nelson Pass. it is very powerful and sweet sounding in the warmer side of solid state designs.


 
  the PA-7 pushes out 200wpc, the PA-7aii pushes 225wpc.  i've had both, sold the PA-7, i regret that still.  pairs nicely with my C26 pre and subdues a pair of magneplanars with authority for that big room sound.  brilliant amps.
   
  cheers.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> *A sad tale of woe with a happy ending*


 
  Nightmare story for sure! But pleased its sorted and looking better than ever now, its such a cool den. Also lucky that the SX1980 is up high! 
   
  I would recommend running a de-humidifier now and then just to keep the moisture in the air levels down too. I have a friend who was affected by flooding a couple of year ago, he lives in a ground floor apartment and the nearby river overflowed. Lost everything. But he was most gutted about his record collection. Twenty years of records gone.. No one is safe from the weather I suppose.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Okay guys Sansui G3300 or Pioneer SX990?
> 
> Any suggestions?


 
  If it was the Sansui G33000 then you wouldn't be asking that question haha
   
  But if its the 3300, then I'd go Pioneer all the way.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





skylab said:


> That's for sure. It sucks. I've lived in this house 14 years, and we have had water in the basement 4 times. Before I did all the work, we used to get seepage a lot too. No seepage now, but with the way the weather is these days, I don't think I will ever be completely immune from it. Over time though I am trying to make it so that the recovery is simpler in the event it does happen again. My new washer and dryer are 2 feet off the floor. The fridge is on 8" concrete blocks. TV "stand" (which is itself a pair of speakers!) is also. Eventually I will have done enough that the water won't bother
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I am glad you survived with relatively low losses - it could have been far worse.
   
  Great man cave you've got down there, wish I had something similar. BUT - what are 3 pairs of speakers doing in the same room? I can understand for the concessions in sound you had to take in order to accommodate that big, hard acoustic flat surface ( TV screen ) - but 3 speakers are really beyond me. You have to haul them along in any way if you want to listen to any of the other two pairs - not much less work and hassle than having the unused pairs in storage in  the nearby closet - with your experience, on some 10" high 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 blocks...
   
  I spy Pioneer RtoR in your rack, as well as an equalizer; from the same great Pioneer series perhaps?


----------



## BmWr75

Great looking space Rob!!


----------



## Skylab

bmwr75 said:


> Great looking space Rob!!




Thanks Scott!



analogsurviver said:


> I am glad you survived with relatively low losses - it could have been far worse.
> 
> Great man cave you've got down there, wish I had something similar. BUT - what are 3 pairs of speakers doing in the same room? I can understand for the concessions in sound you had to take in order to accommodate that big, hard acoustic flat surface ( TV screen ) - but 3 speakers are really beyond me. You have to haul them along in any way if you want to listen to any of the other two pairs - not much less work and hassle than having the unused pairs in storage in  the nearby closet - with your experience, on some 10" high
> 
> ...




Funny you should mention that...here was the result of today's project:






The other speakers are now tucked away in the "unfinished" part of the basement. Can't bear to part with them, at least not yet, but the B&W DM-16s are the best sounding of the bunch, and of course they do sound better without the other speakers so close by.

And yep, you spied right, the bottom of the rack has a Pioneer RT-707 reel to reel deck, which is about to have some Dave Brubeck on it


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks Scott!
> Funny you should mention that...here was the result of today's project:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's the spirit 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1
   
  I need some R2R love to round out my analogue rig...


----------



## Skylab

Many of the 7.5 ips reel tapes I have are among the very best sounding recordings I have in ANY media.

The Pioneer RT-707 is an excellent first reel deck and unless it was abused it is almost certain to work. They were built like a tank, and all the motors are direct drive, so no belts to replace.


----------



## Silent One

And you know I appreciate your guidance. Same with Wualta wait... where is that cat?! Anyway, I see myself jumping on CL at dinner time. 
   
  Also, I finally signed up for AK last month, but ain't done nuthin' over there yet. Obviously, we gonna throw up our G22k over
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 there. Took new pix but having driver issues with my pc.


----------



## LugBug1

Always nice clean socks as well.. Very commendable. 
   
  If that was me, there'd be holes and petruding toe nails causing offense and nausea haha


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Always nice clean socks as well.. Very commendable.
> 
> If that was me, there'd be holes and petruding toe nails causing offense and nausea haha


 
  +1.
   
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> And you know I appreciate your guidance. Same with Wualta wait... where is that cat?! Anyway, I see myself jumping on CL at dinner time.
> 
> Also, I finally signed up for AK last month, but ain't done nuthin' over there yet. Obviously, we gonna throw up our G22k over
> 
> ...


 
  AK stands for Audiokarma ? I am still "Silent Assasin" over there, lurking from time to time. Saw a couple of headfiers over there, too.
   
  Regarding R2R, or any other recorder, not just playback device, Careful With That Axe, Eugene #2 is in order. Recording, even taping live shows off FM radio broadcasts, is creative work - not to mention real recording in a studio or on location. It is a whole new level, but requires time. LOTS of it.
   
  Lasciate ogni speranza, voi che entrate ... - if you think it can be done overnight.
   
  Question for Skylab: where do (or did) you get your analog tapes from? 2nd generation from master tape , some monkey bussiness ? Are there still companies offering analog R2R tapes as it used to be in the past? The day any turntable and vinyl record reaches the same SQ as analog tape the record has been made from ( with the possible exception of half speed mastering, where it is possible for the resulting disc to outperform master tape playback ) - THAT will be the day. Audio shows featuring R2R playing some well recorded analog masters will quickly silence even the most hard core 
  proponents of any other media.


----------



## Skylab

I have a fairly healthy collection of factory recorded reel to reel tapes. These were mostly purchased on eBay and are mostly jazz and classical, since 7.5 ips rock reel tapes are hard to come by and 3.75 ips tapes don't sound all that good. The tapes I I have range from very good to absolutely spectacular in terms of SQ.

I also have a few 10"/15 ips tapes that are copies of safety masters. These of course sound beyond spectacular. They also require playback on my Teac A-3340S which will play 10" reels and has a 15 ips speed capability, which the Pioneer does not.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a fairly healthy collection of factory recorded reel to reel tapes. These were mostly purchased on eBay and are mostly jazz and classical, since 7.5 ips rock reel tapes are hard to come by and 3.75 ips tapes don't sound all that good. The tapes I I have range from very good to absolutely spectacular in terms of SQ.
> 
> I also have a few 10"/15 ips tapes that are copies of safety masters. These of course sound beyond spectacular. They also require playback on my Teac A-3340S which will play 10" reels and has a 15 ips speed capability, which the Pioneer does not.


 
  Well, I guess USA is/was the place to be for R2R factory recorded tapes. In Europe it was much less spread, in my back then country, Yugoslavia, getting R2R copy of anything meant connections in recording studios - none were available commercially. Later on cassettes, but R2R factory recorded tapes were never available to public.
   
  15 ips is the optimum for R2R - going to 30 ips does give some more extension and headroom in the treble, but is usually accompanied with loss in bass. Funny - no R2R I know of can touch latest generation of cassette decks in bass - amorphous heads that show no usual LF ripples in frequency response have become available only well after the last R2R machines have been built. Technics RS-AZ 6 and 7 cassette decks , which among handful of others feature these heads, were released only in 1996, 
   
  Still, getting to hear a well recorded excerpt from an opera on Stellavox SP8 through Micro Seiki ( Stax built ) electrostatic headphones in late 70s at our electronics fair planted the desire to do something along those lines in the future.
   
  Enjoy your tapes - perched somewhere where H20, even under most unfavourable conditions, can not get acces to them.


----------



## ssrock64

A have a friend who has a recording studio built into his basement, and all his recording work is originated on R2R.


----------



## Anavel0

I'd really like to get a vintage receiver because I'm trying to get back in to vinyl. I have a giant 1972 RCA console player that works just fine but it's turntable definitely leaves something to be desired, great sound though. So, a vintage receiver I could run my headphones with and setup a nice vinyl system would be ideal. Hurray for built in phono preamps.
   
  My issue is that I'm worried about being a vintage receiver I'll needing to re-cap it or something similar. I can work on computers just fine, but soldering irons give me the willies.
   
  Does anyone know of places that sell restored vintage receivers or anything similar? Also, price wise I'd like to keep it under $400 but willing to stretch up in to $500 dollar range if it was really nice.


----------



## Skylab

The receivers that have already been fully restored/recapped that you see on eBay are typically the higher end ones. You might have better luck subscribing at AudioKarma and cruising Barter Town. 

The other way to go is to go to local estate/garage sales and monitor Craigslist and look for a local bargain, and then not worry too much if it doesn't last forever.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> I'd really like to get a vintage receiver because I'm trying to get back in to vinyl. I have a giant 1972 RCA console player that works just fine but it's turntable definitely leaves something to be desired, great sound though. So, a vintage receiver I could run my headphones with and setup a nice vinyl system would be ideal. Hurray for built in phono preamps.
> 
> My issue is that I'm worried about being a vintage receiver I'll needing to re-cap it or something similar. I can work on computers just fine, but soldering irons give me the willies.
> 
> Does anyone know of places that sell restored vintage receivers or anything similar? Also, price wise I'd like to keep it under $400 but willing to stretch up in to $500 dollar range if it was really nice.


 
  In your price range, I'd look on ebay for a sony STR-6065, 6055, 6025, 6125.
  IMHO, that model series is my second favorite sounding receiver ever, very neutral and immensely overbuilt and detailed for it's output. It was so nearly almost as good sounding as my SX-1980 that I was annoyed by how good it was, haha. You can get a fully restored one in your price range for sure, and they pop up every week or so. They are fairly common and ship well.


----------



## Anavel0

Sounds like I might have to find a model I'm interested in and try my luck.


----------



## Anavel0

Also, any recommendations for a tube amp fan? Or is it a better bet to go with the normal solid state stuff?


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> Also, any recommendations for a tube amp fan? Or is it a better bet to go with the normal solid state stuff?


 
  Vintage and Tube generally equals lots of time and money.
   
  I have a current model professional headphone amp that is a hybrid with ONE tube that is the most commonly found audio tube, and it still was a lot of time and money finding the right one tube (which did not have to be matched because it was only one).
   
  A Vintage Tube amp means that it will have many tubes, 6, 8, 12 or more, to do the jobs that were subsequently done by transistors.
   
  When you have a Vintage Tube amp, it will be older than the 1970s solid state amps depicted in this thread, which means more likely that it will need work on things other than the tubes.  The solid state gear of the day was specifically designed to be solid and robust, so it is more likely to survive in reasonably good condition.
   
  Some of the Vintage Tube amps sound wonderful (I had a friend who had the top of the line McIntosh) but it is a lot more money and time than solid state vintage.


----------



## WNBC

Pioneer SX-1010 back from the shop after 2 months.  Glad to have the baby monster back.  Takes up a lot space in my small man cave but it's headphone output is great for late night listening.  The Pioneer CS-99 speakers I use for low level not-so critical listening.  Will get around to better speakers one day.  Maybe go modern bookshelf 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## joehalo

wow I like


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> I'd really like to get a vintage receiver because I'm trying to get back in to vinyl.


 
  You might be using the word "receiver" in a generic sense referring to any amplifying device, but in actuality, a 1970s receiver always includes an FM tuner, which you won't need for vinyl.  An "integrated amplifier", which simply means a pre-amplifier (including phono stage) and a power amplifier "integrated" into one case, would suffice nicely. 
   
  So, the word "receiver" refers to receiving radio broadcasts.   If you might listen to FM broadcasts in your area, then fine, otherwise dispensing with the tuner means one less thing to break, especially those tuner dial lamps.   On the other hand, I'm pretty sure plenty of people buy receivers specifically for the appearance of the tuner dial lamps (especially Marantz receivers, where they made a point of designing a very cool and expensive looking tuner dial) - even though they never listen to FM radio...


----------



## pelli

Just got an Akai AA-1050 today.  This is my first DeoxIT clean up job.  It went well and I am pretty happy with this beast.  I got it and an Akai GXC 720D reciever for $80.  Both are in flawless condition with the exception of the bulbs needing replacement on the 1050.  I am enjoying the smooth sound of the Akai  but I think there could be a little more detail.  Overall I have to say I am pleased for the price. Here are some pics:


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> I'd really like to get a vintage receiver because I'm trying to get back in to vinyl. I have a giant 1972 RCA console player that works just fine but it's turntable definitely leaves something to be desired, great sound though. So, a vintage receiver I could run my headphones with and setup a nice vinyl system would be ideal. Hurray for built in phono preamps.
> 
> My issue is that I'm worried about being a vintage receiver I'll needing to re-cap it or something similar. I can work on computers just fine, but soldering irons give me the willies.
> 
> Does anyone know of places that sell restored vintage receivers or anything similar? Also, price wise I'd like to keep it under $400 but willing to stretch up in to $500 dollar range if it was really nice.


 
   

 Quote: 





skylab said:


> The receivers that have already been fully restored/recapped that you see on eBay are typically the higher end ones. You might have better luck subscribing at AudioKarma and cruising Barter Town.
> 
> The other way to go is to go to local estate/garage sales and monitor Craigslist and look for a local bargain, and then not worry too much if it doesn't last forever.


 
   
  Agree that AudioKarma Bartertown is a great place to pick up things.  I've picked up 6-7 different audio pieces there over the last year, and because they're fellow vintage enthusiasts, they typically have a pretty good handle on doing first order things like cleaning the controls and it's not uncommon to find something that's been recapped.  Compared to eBay, there can be some really good deals there and of course the audience is much smaller, so there's less competition as well.
   
  If you continue getting into vintage audio (it's pretty difficult to stop once you start), you will probably find yourself taking more and more things on yourself.  It's also true that if you find something local for cheap, the stakes are low so it's not that big a deal if something "breaks" after a bit.  My first two vintage receivers were local purchases for $35 and $50, so my attitude was to just use them as long as they lasted.  I did end up having to fix something on the $50 receiver to make it stable, but there's a lot of help available on AK as well - really a good crowd there willing to share knowledge as long as you're willing to put forth effort on your side.
   
  What speakers are you going to use, or are you looking for those as well?  That'll determine how much power you'll need on the receiver side.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> Also, any recommendations for a tube amp fan? Or is it a better bet to go with the normal solid state stuff?


 
  I think you might be surprised by how 'tube-like' some of these old 70's solid state amps sound anyway. When I use the term tube-like I mean in stereotypical terms i.e warm and liquidy sounding. Early 70's Sansui would be my recommendation, or Marantz, Kenwood. I've noticed in my brief time in vintage that later 70's - early 80's amps started to sound cleaner and more 'solid state'. 
   
  just my 2 cents with a pinch of salt required


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





pelli said:


> Just got an Akai AA-1050 today.  This is my first DeoxIT clean up job.  It went well and I am pretty happy with this beast.  I got it and an Akai GXC 720D reciever for $80.  Both are in flawless condition with the exception of the bulbs needing replacement on the 1050.  I am enjoying the smooth sound of the Akai  but I think there could be a little more detail.  Overall I have to say I am pleased for the price. Here are some pics:


 
  Thats a smasher! They made some very handsome gear Akai.


----------



## Anavel0

kstuart said:


> You might be using the word "receiver" in a generic sense referring to any amplifying device




Though I'm fine with integrated amps, I do listen to FM as well. So, I would prefer a receiver for simplicity sake. But I'm fine getting a tuner later.


----------



## hans030390

I've never heard a tube amp or receiver with speakers or headphones, but I will say that my Sansui 5000A (early 70s or maybe even late 60s?) has a smoother/more liquid sounding characteristic than my Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II does. I can't really say it has any additional warmth, though. I'm no expert in audio or electronics, and I don't have golden ears, so I can't really describe what the difference truly is from a more objective standpoint.


----------



## captouch

anavel0 said:


> Though I'm fine with integrated amps, I do listen to FM as well. So, I would prefer a receiver for simplicity sake. But I'm fine getting a tuner later.




Where are you located? There may be someone close to you with an extra.


----------



## Anavel0

I'm in east central Indiana, Muncie to be specific.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> I'm in east central Indiana, Muncie to be specific.


 

 Ask the gentleman nicelyto sell you http://muncie.craigslist.org/ele/3964242626.html and you will be very happy.
  I will add some link later for you, still browsing.
   
  This guy has some Pioneer Sx-650 or 680 for OK price http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/ele/3912816787.html
   
  This Nad looks good to me also http://tippecanoe.craigslist.org/ele/3950492605.html


----------



## Anavel0

I did see that one.


----------



## kstuart

After selling many of my personal vintage audio items over the years, I've finally gone a little in the other direction, after hearing some very positive reports about the sound of 70s vintage amps with modern headphones.  I found two ebay sellers with 100% feedback who sell a lot of vintage audio gear, with enthusiastic feedback comments.   Since this is just for use as a dedicated headphone amp, I bought two mid-line integrated amps rather than powerful receivers  (and I will probably re-sell whichever one I like least).
   
  Back in the analog days, I purchased Pioneer gear brand new ( _the pictures of the SA-7100 and TX-7100 look familiar, but memory is foggy_ ) - so I wanted to try different brands this time.  I never had a Marantz - buying a new one was for "rich kids" (if you do the math, the retail prices were equal to $1000-$2000 in today's US dollars) - so this clean 1040, fully tested (including the channel output balance) seemed a good deal for $125:
   
   

   
  And so I could determine my own preference of "Marantz vs Sansui" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , I also looked for a mid-70s Sansui integrated amp, and found another ebay seller who sells a lot of Sansui, and the best part is - each one is serviced - recapped, all other components that are out of spec are replaced, everything adjusted to spec and cleaned and de-oxit'ed.  Most of his Sansui's go for several hundred dollars, but he had an AU-417 for $175.  Since I would be using it as a headphone amp, the lack of dual transformer construction found in the higher models would be a moot point for me.   Also, since it has been recapped and adjusted to factory spec, I eliminate the issue of "maybe this particular unit is not a fair representation of the Sansui sound" and so I won't have to hear another one if I don't like the sound:
   

   
  $175 seems like a fair price for a clean. tested 65wpc Sansui OR a fair price for recapping and servicing a vintage amp, let alone both.
   
  I see plenty of auctions on ebay for over $100 for dirty, untested mid-70s vintage amps - clearly guys who are flipping garage sale finds without doing anything at all.
   
  Both of my purchases were "buy it now" - guys who make a business out of testing and refurbishing gear often know how much they want to receive.  I don't see any benefit to waiting for the end of an auction on an item which is popular - everyone in the world can see the auction, so there are very few "deals".
   
  I'll report back after they arrive.


----------



## kazsud

What is the best vintage amp for the hd800s?
  I currently just got a Pioneer SX-750 a week ago and it has a pretty awesome headphone amp in it


----------



## jasonb

I just picked up an SX-750 from a local flea market today for $40. It does sound really good to me. Was it a good deal?
  Quote: 





kazsud said:


> What is the best vintage amp for the hd800s?
> I currently just got a Pioneer SX-750 a week ago and it has a pretty awesome headphone amp in it


----------



## kazsud

I paid $140 :/  The same guy was selling the SX1010 for $500


----------



## Majestyk

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> One brand I never hear mentioned on this thread is Yamaha. I love my CR-820, build quality and sound are top notch. I feel the sound is very neutral and detailed. Anyone else have any vintage Yamaha?


 
   
   
  I have a CR-620 and love it with my DT880's.  I used to have the K240 Sextetts and they sounded great too.  The bass is just unreal.  Same with a CR-220 I have as well, which isn't quite up there with the CR-620.  In fact, I find I have to roll the bass back one notch, and sometimes the treble ahead one notch.  (On both receivers, I might add and with both mentioned headphones).


----------



## Meewoo

I bought and sold many vintage pieces. But I will always keep my Yammy CA-2010. I still have Yammy R-9, R-8 which are early 80's BPC looking pieces, but they sound good!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oh, I have a CR-820 needing treble knob, who has spare one??
   
  Yammy house sound is my second favorite.


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> I have a CR-820 needing treble knob, who has spare one?




While the tech was hunting for a power switch for the Sansui AU 20000, the only original one coming up was on EB for $75!
He mentioned that the power switch in the Yamaha 2010/2020 are the same as in the Sansui, just have to graft on the silver toggle from the old switch.
So he emailed Yamaha to see if that switch is still in production.
Maybe another brand used those Yamaha knobs too, you just never know.

Reminds me of a limo driver I spoke with years ago about the odd colored rear door on his Cadillac limo.
He said the original door got hit and Cadillac wanted 2X+ the price for a new door, compared to the used Chevrolet Caprice door that bolted right on. Just had to transfer in the Cadillac trim from the old door and shoot it with some black paint...


----------



## jasonb

Looks clean, right?


----------



## Anavel0

I go to check out the Pioneer SX-850 on Friday. The owner says everything works. From the pictures he sent it looks like it has some big scuffs on the outside. I'm not super worried about that as long as it works and sounds good.


----------



## Meewoo

: 





5aces said:


> While the tech was hunting for a power switch for the Sansui AU 20000, the only original one coming up was on EB for $75!
> He mentioned that the power switch in the Yamaha 2010/2020 are the same as in the Sansui, just have to graft on the silver toggle from the old switch.
> So he emailed Yamaha to see if that switch is still in production.
> Maybe another brand used those Yamaha knobs too, you just never know.


 
   
  Oh, Sausui and Yammy! I saw there are differences in looking, Suii's is a little round, Yammy's is just flat.
  I can change the my CR-820 knobs to other sets since I have a golden color SX-525 can donate the knobs. Anyone need SX-525 parts, just let me know.
  I like your avatar, when I listen to music, I'm normally in my fantasy world just like your  avatar, childish but sweet!! I am still looking an AU-20000 in my local market, I think it will be a long journey like pursuing Kyocera A-910.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> I go to check out the Pioneer SX-850 on Friday. The owner says everything works. From the pictures he sent it looks like it has some big scuffs on the outside. I'm not super worried about that as long as it works and sounds good.


 
  Glad to hear that you still have the chance, for $50, even bad shape one  is a good.


----------



## nailbunny7

I know little about the vintage scene but have a decent budget to work with for one. What is the communities' opinion about the best sounding vintage receiver that is not made of unobtanium (like the Pioneer SX-1980)?


----------



## Skylab

Candidates would be Pioneer SX-1050 and 1250, 1080 and 1280; Sansui 9090 and G9000, Marantz 2275/2285/2325/2330/2335, among others.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> I know little about the vintage scene but have a decent budget to work with for one. What is the communities' opinion about the best sounding vintage receiver that is not made of unobtanium (like the Pioneer SX-1980)?


 

 If there's one, then we don't need this thread and many internet forum. You must find *your sound*, it's a journey, but lots of fun.


----------



## nailbunny7

I can only afford to try one at a time, so I have to make it worth it lol


----------



## Oregonian

nailbunny7 said:


> I can only afford to try one at a time, so I have to make it worth it lol




If anyone has good input it's Skylab.

I've got two Kenwood KA-5700 integrateds and love the sound and the bass is amazing. Also have a Realistic STA-64B receiver from the mid '70's that also sounds wonderful. Last but not least is my Pioneer Spec system that sounds pretty good as well. 

Point is, find one, post what you find and we will give you the input we can. So many good choices. The best way to try it is to, well, try it. Bring your iPod, RCA hook ups with you and headphones and listen. That's what I did.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It's certainly true that there is no "one best amp".
   
  However, I find some reluctance on Forums like AudioKarma to describe the differences between the brands and between their individual products (probably because most Forum members are not skilled "reviewers" - people who can describe a sound with words).
   
  Some of the fault also lies with those asking the question - who rarely describe their musical tastes and overall hardware requirements - which are necessary for any sort of recommendation.
   
  Skylab's list is a good one, simply because all of those items are easily sold if they don't meet your needs.   Other brands are less popular, even though they have adherents (eg the "woods"), and so they are harder to re-sell.


----------



## nailbunny7

Thanks for the advice! I will probably choose from what Skylab listed


----------



## risenfallen

Is anyone familiar with the Pioneer SA-3000 integrated amp? It looks neat and seems to fit my need, e.g driving small, pretty efficient bookshelf speakers and if possible using as an alternative headphone amp. All I can find is that it puts out around 40wpc and was from Pioneer's early 1980s mini system. I would appreciate any input


----------



## 5aces

nailbunny7 said:


> I can only afford to try one at a time, so I have to make it worth it lol




Want to try tube- Fisher *500C* receiver.

Marantz - start looking at a *Model 2270* and up.

Pioneer- start looking at the* SX 950* level.

Snag a Marantz *Model 2325* or a Pioneer* SX 1250* for the right price and you are in for a treat.
Sound quality and shear power that won't disappoint.
Frequently available and repairable.


----------



## gikigill

My newest acquisition, the Sherwood 260B with a solid 110x2w RMS  and power consumption of 600W


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have a fairly healthy collection of factory recorded reel to reel tapes. These were mostly purchased on eBay and are mostly jazz and classical, since 7.5 ips rock reel tapes are hard to come by and 3.75 ips tapes don't sound all that good. The tapes I I have range from very good to absolutely spectacular in terms of SQ.
> 
> I also have a few 10"/15 ips tapes that are copies of safety masters. These of course sound beyond spectacular. They also require playback on my Teac A-3340S which will play 10" reels and has a 15 ips speed capability, which the Pioneer does not.


 
   
  Where do you buy pre-recorded tapes (1/4", 7.5 ips)? I bought a few from eBay (including a copy of Bridge Over Troubled Water that was still sealed), and they all sound like doo-doo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Now the recordings I've dubbed from my MFSL LPs onto Ampex 407, now those are good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Using a Pioneer RT-1011L, fresh out of overhaul.


----------



## harrinj

I love this thread...


----------



## Skylab

calipilot227 said:


> Where do you buy pre-recorded tapes (1/4", 7.5 ips)? I bought a few from eBay (including a copy of Bridge Over Troubled Water that was still sealed), and they all sound like doo-doo
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Almost 100% from eBay. I would say about 95% of the ones I've gotten sound between very good - phenomenal. About 5% were no good and got returned (eBay is very buyer friendly these days). 

Again this refers to 7.5 ips tapes only. 3.75 prerecorded tapes never sound any better than "pretty good" IMO.


----------



## kstuart

*Has anyone compared how their headphones sound with a vintage amp/receiver to how they sound with an* *Emotiva Mini-x A100* ?


----------



## jasonb

Last night was spent using my T50rp paired with the SX-750. Yesterday I tested my Q701 quickly on the SX-750, but quickly went back to the T50rp. Tonight I am using the Q701 with it at length. It definitely made the T50rp sound better, and I can confirm that it also makes the Q701 sound a bit better too. The Q701's sound best with the treble control left alone, but with some added bass. I'm using them with the bass knob on the +2 position for some added fun. The soundstage seems even bigger than it did with the E17 alone. The Q701, in my opinion, is still better when listened to at a lower volume. The T50rp really likes to be cranked, the Q701 is just to jagged in the upper mid-range to be cranked for long periods of time. I'm not saying the SX-750 doesn't sound smooth, I am saying that the Q701 is still a Q701.
   
  The SX-750 is definitely a beastly chunk of metal. It's got a ridiculous amount of power for headphones, I can't take either the Q701 or the T50rp past the 9 o'clock spot on the volume knob. I'm going to need more time before I say what kind of sound signature I think it has. With the Q701 I am doing the same thing using the SX-750 that I did the with E17 which is leave the treble alone, but slightly boost the bass. With the modded T50rp I almost always prefered them with +2 treble from the E17, but with the bass at 0. With the SX-750 and T50rp yesterday I was boosting both the treble and the bass. So it's too soon to say how I'm really hearing things. I'm still in the honeymoon phase with it. So far so good though.    
   
  Oh, and can someone remind me again why a low output impedance is better? I am not hearing any effects of a decreased damping factor. Bass response it fast and tight with both headphones, not slow, flabby, or bloated. I was skeptical before trying it based on what I've read, but based on what I am hearing it sounds great.


----------



## kazsud

I have the SX-750 as well and haven't used the headphone out on my Dac-100 since I got it. I find myself never going higher then 9:00 except for 24bit songs which takes me to around 12:00.
   
  I might sell it to a buddy at work and pick up a SX-1050


----------



## MattTCG

Go for the 1050...


----------



## Silent One

P/U a 1250 and call it an evening... with tunes of course!


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





silent one said:


> P/U a 1250 and call it an evening... with tunes of course!


 
   
   
  I do love my SX-1250. I'd only sell it if I lucked out on a big 1980.


----------



## MattTCG

I might trade my mint Sansui 9090db for a sx-1250.


----------



## Silent One

I wouldn't give up my Sansui for a 1980, let alone a 1250.


----------



## LugBug1

A few pages ago I was gutted because I'd found my dream sound when I fell for an amp called the Sansui AU-505. But if you remember she had a slight hummm... Hmmm it was doing my head in. Anyways, I just picked up a pair of K701's today (my third set over the years..) and to my surprise when I plugged them into the 505, no hum whatsoever :O Its as quiet as church mouse who's on a mission not to make any noise at all.
  They are a strange headphone indeed the K's with their impedance swings. I remember them being more power hungry than my LCD2's and even HE500's. However, vintage seems to be a good match for them. Unfortunately they don't stack up against the HD800's in respect to sound quality. But at least I know that my AU-505 is fine. 
   
  Wish the HD800's weren't so bloody sensitive. !!


----------



## hans030390

In regards to my earlier post with Sansui 5000A HPO measurements, I went back and looked at some RMAA loopback tests I did on just my Auzentech Bravura. Those results also showed distortion and noise at 60Hz and its harmonics, though not quite to the extent of the Sansui measurements. That would indicate that the source of this distortion and noise is not necessarily coming from just the vintage receiver itself or a ground loop issue just specific to the receiver. That might also explain why when listening to headphones (which, you know, isn't a loopback test) I did not near a hum, noise, etc. It sounded quite clean across the spectrum as far as I could tell. It might just be an issue with my setup and how I did the measurements. Or it might really be there and I can't here it.
   
  I would like to re-do my measurements once/if I can find a way to correct this, though perhaps there is little to nothing I can do about it. Any ideas? I'll keep enjoying the Sansui until (and after) then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: I forgot to mention that I only did external loopback tests with the card, since an internal loopbacks tend to overestimate how well the card will do in a real/external situation. I should try an internal loopback test just for kicks...
   
  I think I'll need to focus on getting the best external loopback results I can with my card first before measuring the receiver again...going to try better quality and shorter cables, try to isolate them a bit from the rest of the computer and other wires, etc. And, for all I know, the way I'm measuring this is a completely wrong way to do it...not really sure.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I wouldn't give up my Sansui for a 1980, let alone a 1250.


 
   
  Call it a morbid curiosity. I was always impressed with the little sx-650 and how well it performed for the price and size. It only seems logical that the sx-1250 would be a real beast. Plus I have very little money in the Sansui which makes selling or trading it a little easier.
   
  I'd trade straight up.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Call it a morbid curiosity. I was always impressed with the little sx-650 and how well it performed for the price and size. It only seems logical that the sx-1250 would be a real beast. Plus I have very little money in the Sansui which makes selling or trading it a little easier.
> 
> I'd trade straight up.


 
   
  OH, I'm with you on that trade (9090db)... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 just not with my model.


----------



## Skylab

Right! SO you shouldn't trade YOUR Sansui for ANYTHING 

And quite honestly, unless you have a hang up on the looks or the "mojo" of the SX-1980 (which I totally and freely admit that I DO), the SX-1250 sounds just as good, is far less expensive, and purportedly easier to fix and/or restore.


----------



## Silent One

Just up the highway, someone is trying to move a 1250 on CL for $800. But I'm not sure what the market is for them right now.


----------



## penmarker

I got a deal for a pair of Mordaunt Short Carnval 1 for cheap, but I still haven't gotten myself an amp yet. I came across tripath amps like lepai and topping, but I don't trust the quality of the lepai despite their glorious reviews. Topping amps however are using better quality components encased in a very solidly built housing. 

On the other hand, I have my eyes on one Sansui AU 3900 mentioned previously some pages back.

I'm particularly interested with the headphone out to drive my Goldring DR150. Any of you guys had the chance to compare the performance of a tripath amp and a vintage solid state amp? Should I open a new thread for this?


----------



## kazsud

Are there any mods, tweaks or component upgrades that can be done to the Pioneer SX series?


----------



## jasonb

What makes the higher end SX models better for headphones than the lower end models like the SX-750? Obviously they make more power, but is that all?


----------



## moodyrn

Better transformers, much better power supplies, separate amp boards, better shielding, more robust build quality, beefier caps, etc...I could go on and on.


----------



## jasonb

Is any of this going to make an audible difference with headphones? I mean the SX-750 is already overkill for headphones. 
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Better transformers, much better power supplies, separate amp boards, better shielding, more robust build quality, beefier caps, etc...I could go on and on.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Is any of this going to make an audible difference with headphones? I mean the SX-750 is already overkill for headphones.


 
  More controlled bass for most part.
  If driving speakers, the difference is noticeable!
  And, don't forget the brag rights!


----------



## moodyrn

jasonb said:


> Is any of this going to make an audible difference with headphones? I mean the SX-750 is already overkill for headphones.




All of these factors are crucial. One of if not the most important aspect is power supply design. Clean power is absolutely critical. Even if you look at some of the better dedicated headphone amps today, the best ones(beta22, gsx, dark star) all have power supply's so massively built, they are housed in a separate chasis. Power supplies are what separates good amps from state of the art. 

You don't have to go out and only get totl vintage gear for great sound. But from my experience with mid level and totl vintage gear, the totl were always in another league sonically. And it's why I now only buy higher end vintage gear.


----------



## jasonb

Well, I'll enjoy what I have now because it already sounds better than what I was using before, but I'll keep my eyes open at yard sales and flea markets and such for the higher end Pioneers. At least this time I'll go in knowing what I'm looking for. 
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> All of these factors are crucial. One of if not the most important aspect is power supply design. Clean power is absolutely critical. Even if you look at some of the better dedicated headphone amps today, the best ones(beta22, gsx, dark star) all have power supply's so massively built, they are housed in a separate chasis. Power supplies are what separates good amps from state of the art.
> 
> You don't have to go out and only get totl vintage gear for great sound. But from my experience with mid level and totl vintage gear, the totl were always in another league sonically. And it's why I now only buy higher end vintage gear.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





penmarker said:


> I got a deal for a pair of Mordaunt Short Carnval 1 for cheap, but I still haven't gotten myself an amp yet. I came across tripath amps like lepai and topping, but I don't trust the quality of the lepai despite their glorious reviews. Topping amps however are using better quality components encased in a very solidly built housing.
> 
> On the other hand, I have my eyes on one Sansui AU 3900 mentioned previously some pages back.
> 
> I'm particularly interested with the headphone out to drive my Goldring DR150. Any of you guys had the chance to compare the performance of a tripath amp and a vintage solid state amp? Should I open a new thread for this?


 
  I hate to do this, but it is a fair and just thing to do. All vintage amps / receivers, with the exceptions so rare that can be forgotten, use for powering headphones speaker output power amp, connected through some fairly high resistance ( couple hundred ohms ) . That means output impedance of your headphone jack is essentially the resistance of that limiting resistor in series. It is suboptimal in any case, but gets worse with the lower impedance of headphones. Not only the control, definition and dynamic range are affected, it manifests itself with quite markedly changed frequency response, particularly with headphones that display gross impedance variation across the spectrum - balanced armature headphones would be most vulnerable to this.
   
  Again - it could be to your's liking, it could be good "enough" - but would never represent an optimum solution for driving good headphones. One can not expect not to hear some of the above with say HD800s - please note I diiiiiiid streeeeetch the time with hps plugged into phones out on my vintage amps faaaaar toooooo loooong - a dedicated powerful enough for the headphones driven amp will sound superiour nomatterwhat. It needs not to be expensive to demonstrate this fact - but where on earth are you gong to hear what your amp is doing better than through a pair headphones strapped to your ears - or worse yet - inserted in your ear canal? Poor amp ( and source etc ) has literally nowhere to hide.
   
  Vintage dedicated headphone amps? A handful of above exceptions all but unobtainium by now - I remember there was a very high end Onkyo of that type, but it was $$$ and probably still is. Never saw one in flesh.
   
  HD 800 through a resistor on vintage amp ( that IS in 99,99999 ........9 % of cases ) - NO, thank you. It is like powering a Ferrari on anything that will remotely burn in its engine - performance be damned. One does not buy a Ferrari if there is afterwards no money for gasoline, tires, etc.
   
  This is not to say it can not be an interim solution until budget allows for more or even the ultimate solution for your combination of equipment and listening preferences. I like adore vintage, but that resistor in series is a deal breaker as far as decent headphone performance is concerned. Almost everything else on vintage equipment can be restored/improved/modified - into stratosphere if desired - but that headphone output remains the same. Unless you decide to replace those two 5 cent resistors ( and switch)  with proper headphone amp - here is your answer why in "vintage" times there were so few proper headphone amps. Once Sony cassette Walkmans and their headphone amps have shown a clean pair of heels to headphone outputs on vintage amps/receivers - and you can add anything from then up to present iWhatnots - modern amps/receivers have such dedicated headphone amps. Couple of resistors, capacitors, 2 operational amplifiers - it can be done for say additional $ 10 compared to the 10 cent resistors approach. Of course one can drive the quality ( and price...) of parts beyond any reason - but that $10 headphone amp will make mincemeat of any vintage amp connected to headphones via series resistors.


----------



## jasonb

This old debate again... Both my Q701 and T50rp sound great on my Pioneer. I've read over and over again that high output impedance is not ideal, but my ears are telling me different.


----------



## moodyrn

So tell me analogsurviver, what vintage amps and receiver have you listened to, to come up with these conclusions? I've owned both high end modern and vintage gear and have even done side by side comparisons using high end low impedance, high impedance, low and high sensitivity cans. And I stand by my conclusion that even some lower end vintage amps can compete with midrange to lower high end headphone amps. So what direct comparisons have you done?


----------



## Skylab

AnalogSurviver, I have great respect for you, but you are being much too dogmatic here, IMHO. First of all, it is FAR from a given that damping factor, which is going to be the primary effect of the impedance issue, is really all that audible. Further, for purely resistive loads like all Orthodynamic/planar headphones, the whole issue is completely irrelevant. So users of HiFiMan, Audeze, etc, have zero consideration here. And as you pointed out, for high impedance Senn and for sure 600 ohm Beyer headphone, also not really an issue at all.

And for headphones like AT, Denon, Grado...maybe there will be an audible effect. But I think it is very overblown. 

One thing I personally would not recommend are IEMs with vintage amps, as I do think the odds of having a powerful speaker amp be quiet enough for an IEM are somewhat more risky.


----------



## LugBug1

I've owned lots of dedicated hp amps from Schitt to Xcans to little dots to Audio gd's etc, and none sound as good as my vintage Sansui, Pioneer or Marantz with the HD800's. From bass control to dynamics, speed and smoother treble. Headphone amps IME (unless they are very powerful and most of them aren't) can simply sound lacklustre in comparison.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> This old debate again... Both my Q701 and T50rp sound great on my Pioneer. I've read over and over again that high output impedance is not ideal, but my ears are telling me different.


 
  True - I did write it can sound right with certain combinations and to some ears. If you found your Personal Nirvana - great.
   
  I personally somehow adhered to that until I started recording music. Hearing music live on my ears alone and through equipment of any sort put a relatively quick end on high impedance option -
  all it takes is a few bars played on a piano in lower registers.
   
  It is not what is "liked" - it is what most closely resembles the real thing. It may well be the frequency response deviations that do occur with high impedance drive suit your ear. That could be recreated through use of an equalizer. What is more critical is the loss of control of the amp has over the headphone driver if its output impedance is high ( or its damping factor is consequently low ). We react first to frequency response anomalies, everything else must be very much higher in magnitude to be directly audible. Say 1 dB at lower extreme can be the threshold between Personal Gotterdammerung and - inaudible. Distortion has to reach much more than 1 % to be directly objectionable - but you have first to be able to hear the basic signal. That means frequency response takes precedence.
   
  If say $ 10 required to go from resistor approach to decent simple headphone amp was/is a problem - then where is the required equalizer of sufficiently high (X00 $ ) quality?!
   
  As you can see, it eventually boils down to money. Given the chance to audition the same headphone with the high impedance drive and with low impedance drive equalized for the same frequency response, there is no contest - lower distortion ( and better transient response ) will always win. Trouble, as usual, is in the expense. 2x 5 cents for the resistors vs (10 +x00 $ ) for decent amp + equalizer is no brainer for the majority of the consumers.


----------



## MattTCG

There is an sx-1280 local that I can get about $400. Is it worth it if the condition and functionality is good?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> There is an sx-1280 local that I can get about $400. Is it worth it if the condition and functionality is good?


 
  I would say so mate, absolutely!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Vintage dedicated headphone amps? A handful of above exceptions all but unobtainium by now - I remember there was a very high end Onkyo of that type, but it was $$$ and probably still is. Never saw one in flesh.


 
   
   
   

   
  yes, sounds better than my Pioneer SA-7100, which I adore...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> True - I did write it can sound right with certain combinations and to some ears. If you found your Personal Nirvana - great.
> 
> I personally somehow adhered to that until I started recording music. Hearing music live on my ears alone and through equipment of any sort put a relatively quick end on high impedance option -
> all it takes is a few bars played on a piano in lower registers.
> ...


 
   
  I know it would not be an idea solution, but have been thinking about putting a high quality stereo pot in place of the fixed resistors in my Sherwood, and experimenting with different values to see where the sweet spot is - this thought occurred to me for exactly the reasons you have discussed (mainly damping factor).


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I've owned lots of dedicated hp amps from Schitt to Xcans to little dots to Audio gd's etc, and none sound as good as my vintage Sansui, Pioneer or Marantz with the HD800's. From bass control to dynamics, speed and smoother treble. Headphone amps IME (unless they are very powerful and most of them aren't) can simply sound lacklustre in comparison.


 
  It is true that there are requirements to be met for the amp regarding the load. "Headphone amp" is a relatively new kid on the block - and not all are created equal. HD800s are 600 ohms impedance, meaning they require quite some voltage swing that majority of headphone amps that operate on relatively low voltages simply can not cope with dynamic peaks - more voltage swing is required, something easily met with power amp for speakers, as provided by your Sansui. I have GREAT respect for Sansui receivers - they usually have great phono stages, great tuners, drive reasonable speakers with ease, etc, etc - the only thing not to like is that headphone output.
   
  Most headphone amps do not have enough voltage swing to properly power 600 ohm headphones. That is the major lacklustre culprit you mention.
  It can be done better - at a cost most users of lower impedance headphones would not be willing to pay for something they do not need.
   
  I do not own HD800s, Stax is much more up my alley. I heard HD800 with Lehmann ???? ( TOTL or near that ) amp and that was the first time I liked any  non electrostatic Senn. Of "normal" headphones I own AKG K 340 ( old, electrostatic tweeter ) and if HD 800 reacts even mildly similar to high and low impedance drive, it should be night and day difference. That " high AND low impedance amp" I used was Technics SE 9060 power amp headphone vs speaker output - it is quiet enough to drive IEMs without any hiss contributable to amp through either output. It also has enough voltage swing to drive almost any headphone.  It is 75 W/ch into 8 ohms.
   
  The same power amp as in SE 9060 ( but with simpler power supply ) is also found in SU 8080 integrated amp. Both are definitely vintage designs, 1977 IIRC .


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> I know it would not be an idea solution, but have been thinking about putting a high quality stereo pot in place of the fixed resistors in my Sherwood, and experimenting with different values to see where the sweet spot is - this thought occurred to me for exactly the reasons you have discussed (mainly damping factor).


 
  This is an interesting idea. Better something than nothing. Trouble - you will quickly learn a QUALITY pot costs much more than that hypothetical $ 10 headphone amp...especially one that has to carry for a pot considerable amounts of power.
   
  Cruel fact is that replacing pots on ANY piece of vintage gear with really good pots will usually double the overall price - a really good pot ( and  at least 2 are required, for volume and balance ) is very quickly at $ 100 and above apiece. That is why I mainly soldier on with originals up to the point they really make life too miserable indeed, And in more cases than not it is impossible to get a currently available pot that will physically fit into the space available - making canibalizing another vintage piece of equipment of the same type usually the only option,


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, well aware of the costs.  I will probably will pursue this at some point and will report back with the results.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> It is true that there are requirements to be met for the amp regarding the load. "Headphone amp" is a relatively new kid on the block - and not all are created equal. HD800s are 600 ohms impedance, meaning they require quite some voltage swing that majority of headphone amps that operate on relatively low voltages simply can not cope with dynamic peaks - more voltage swing is required, something easily met with power amp for speakers, as provided by your Sansui. I have GREAT respect for Sansui receivers - they usually have great phono stages, great tuners, drive reasonable speakers with ease, etc, etc - the only thing not to like is that headphone output.
> 
> Most headphone amps do not have enough voltage swing to properly power 600 ohm headphones. That is the major lacklustre culprit you mention.
> It can be done better - at a cost most users of lower impedance headphones would not be willing to pay for something they do not need.
> ...


 
  Yeah I hear what you are saying. And it makes sense. But my problem is that you are using a headphone as an example that you haven't owned...Or used with vintage amps (the HD800's are 300 ohm by the way) I learned a long time ago not to go by common sense or logic in this hobby. There are too many relatives and variables. Impedance matching being only one of them. The sensitivity of a driver such as used in the HD800 is far more sensitive than say another 300ohm headphone such as the HD650's for e.g. They are different designs. If all headphones were the same then yes, you could pretty much predict what amp will work best based purely on the math, after you had in practice experimented enough. Another example is the AKG dynamic flagships, they are only about 50ohm I think? Yet they respond very well to OTL amps. Or amps with a high impedance output. 
   
  A little too much theory and not enough practice my friend. But I'm enjoying reading it all the same


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





skylab said:


> AnalogSurviver, I have great respect for you, but you are being much too dogmatic here, IMHO. First of all, it is FAR from a given that damping factor, which is going to be the primary effect of the impedance issue, is really all that audible. Further, for purely resistive loads like all Orthodynamic/planar headphones, the whole issue is completely irrelevant. So users of HiFiMan, Audeze, etc, have zero consideration here. And as you pointed out, for high impedance Senn and for sure 600 ohm Beyer headphone, also not really an issue at all.
> 
> And for headphones like AT, Denon, Grado...maybe there will be an audible effect. But I think it is very overblown.
> 
> One thing I personally would not recommend are IEMs with vintage amps, as I do think the odds of having a powerful speaker amp be quiet enough for an IEM are somewhat more risky.


 
  I agree with everything stated - but it has to be taken in consideration on case by case basis. 
   
  The effects of damping factor are not appreciated enough - I agree that anything above 50 is probably adequate, but that means 12 ohm output impedance for 600 ohm cans - something even dedicated headphone amps can have trouble with, let alone resistor coupled power amps. Even if it is say 100 ohm resistor ( usually never that low, more like 220 and up ) that means damping factor of 6 for 600 ohm load - which is decidedly poor. 
  If it is low impedance headphone, say 32 ohm to stay "polite", one gets negative damping factor - source is three times higher in impedance than the load, definitely not the ideal condition.
   
  Grado SR60 can vary WILDLY as regard with what they are driven - to ridiculous amount, both in quality achievable and unfortunately - resulting cost. I might decide one day to share this experience - suffice to say is that all  owner of those SR 60 managed to utter after few minutes listening to that combo was:
   
  "...... I never imagined SR 60 can sound THAT great ! "
   
  It was perhaps the overkill in the entire audio history, but boy did it sound great.  It had "enough" - of everything - with loads to spare.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Yes, well aware of the costs.  I will probably will pursue this at some point and will report back with the results.


 
  Please keep us updated - this might turn out to be reasonable method of achieving the desired goal at not too exhorbitant cost.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Please keep us updated - this might turn out to be reasonable method of achieving the desired goal at not too exhorbitant cost.


 
   
  Will do!


----------



## penmarker

I'm going to give it a shot and get myself the Sansui AU-3900 and report back the results. I'm also getting it mainly for the phono input. Recently I had a stroke of luck selling all 3 of the equipments that I put up for sale (one Aune T1 was sold to the guy I gave for repairs), and I don't have a DAC and phono stage anymore. So in consideration about getting an amp for myself I can only choose a DAC+amp or phono stage+amp. That 'ole 3900 fits the bill and I'll get myself the new UD110 by Stoner Acoustics, revealed in his facebook to be released in a month or so.
   
  Also I'm going to need the array of controls on it especially the Stereo/Mono selection for my turntable calibration. If only that darn replacement Analogue Test Record LP would arrive already.
   
  Since the MS Carnival 1 is not very efficient at 85dB, would this Sansui suffice? Speakers rated at 15-80Watts, the Sansui is like 25 or 22 Watts.
   
  *edit: Forgot to mention that they'll be used as nearfield speakers.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> So tell me analogsurviver, what vintage amps and receiver have you listened to, to come up with these conclusions? I've owned both high end modern and vintage gear and have even done side by side comparisons using high end low impedance, high impedance, low and high sensitivity cans. And I stand by my conclusion that even some lower end vintage amps can compete with midrange to lower high end headphone amps. So what direct comparisons have you done?


 
  I did write a comprehensive reply and hit the wrong button - POOF ! 
   
  I will try again tomorrow, promise.


----------



## mhamel

Nice... I lived in Lakewood for years, over in Pontiac now, but looking for a place in Narragansett.
   
  I've got a laundry list of stuff that I need to get out of here before I move, some vintage, some not.
   
  I'll PM rather than cloud up the thread with it.
   
    -Mike
   
   
  Quote: 





bce22 said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





penmarker said:


> I'm going to give it a shot and get myself the Sansui AU-3900 and report back the results. I'm also getting it mainly for the phono input. Recently I had a stroke of luck selling all 3 of the equipments that I put up for sale (one Aune T1 was sold to the guy I gave for repairs), and I don't have a DAC and phono stage anymore. So in consideration about getting an amp for myself I can only choose a DAC+amp or phono stage+amp. That 'ole 3900 fits the bill and I'll get myself the new UD110 by Stoner Acoustics, revealed in his facebook to be released in a month or so.
> 
> Also I'm going to need the array of controls on it especially the Stereo/Mono selection for my turntable calibration. If only that darn replacement Analogue Test Record LP would arrive already.
> 
> ...


 
  For nearfield, with not too dynamic material, 20 or so watt should suffice. Better more, but should be reasonably ok.
   
  @Everybody that need mono for phono ( or any other ) reasons - you can use a normal RCA cable and connect left and right record out jacks on preamps/amps/receivers that lack mono button.
   
  Tougher is the lack of balance controls - only the most $$$$$ carts will require zero channel balance correction, 1 dB difference is quite common even in fairly expensive carts.


----------



## moodyrn

analogsurviver said:


> I did write a comprehensive reply and hit the wrong button - POOF !
> 
> I will try again tomorrow, promise.




You don't have to go through the trouble. We can just respectfully disagree on the matter. I have my ears and you have yours. Personal enjoyment is all that matters to me. You continue to enjoy your amps and I will continue to enjoy mine.


----------



## kstuart

I would be interested in any recommendations of *soldering gear* to use on vintage amplifiers... I have a very generic "soldering iron" that is decades old, and I would want to get something a little more sophisticated if I was going to do something like "recap".
   
  Either links to existing web pages, or your own personal experience would be fine, thanks!


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> I would be interested in any recommendations of *soldering gear* to use on vintage amplifiers... I have a very generic "soldering iron" that is decades old, and I would want to get something a little more sophisticated if I was going to do something like "recap".
> 
> Either links to existing web pages, or your own personal experience would be fine, thanks!


 
   
  I have a Hakko 936 station with a Hakko 907 iron. You can buy different tips for it too. There are many soldering tips in the DIY forum.


----------



## sling5s

It's been all time since I've visited here.  Since than I acquired a Violectric V200/V800 combo.
  But recently I plugged my Grado RS1 and LCD-2 in to my Pioneer SX-737.  And wow, the soundstage and dynamics blew me away.
  The V200 is so much more refined and smooth, but the soundstage is so much wider on the pioneer.  When I have my headphones plugged into the V200, I feel like I'm listening to headphones, but when I plug it into the Pioneer, it's like I'm listening to speakers.  So much more alive and dynamic. The impedance may not be right or ideal but my headphones really come to life.
   
  The pioneer is a little brighter than the V200, so I don't do it long or I get fatigued on the pioneer but while it lasts, it's a treat.
  I wish I could find a vintage receiver that sounded like the V200.  I had Marantz but to me it was warm but had thin mids.  Could not figure it out.
   
  Anyways, these vintage receivers are something.


----------



## Oregonian

I think it was said earlier but I got to say this is my favorite thread on this forum.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I checked the DIY Forum Beginners Guide and that is one of two Soldering Stations that they recommend (the other is a Weller WESD51 or WES51 Station).
   
  One aspect of tips and recommendations in the DIY Forum is that it is generally for making your own kits and such.  So, it occurred to me that there might be different recommendations for working on Vintage gear - for example, there might be different solder types used ?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> The pioneer is a little brighter than the V200, so I don't do it long or I get fatigued on the pioneer but while it lasts, it's a treat.
> I wish I could find a vintage receiver that sounded like the V200.  I had Marantz but to me it was warm but had thin mids.  Could not figure it out.
> 
> Anyways, these vintage receivers are something.


 
   
  I would suggest you give Luxman or Kenwood a try.
   
  Oh, I forgot to mention that Harman Kardon has warmest sound but not like Marantz bottom-heavy. So it may suit you.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> I checked the DIY Forum Beginners Guide and that is one of two Soldering Stations that they recommend (the other is a Weller WESD51 or WES51 Station).
> 
> One aspect of tips and recommendations in the DIY Forum is that it is generally for making your own kits and such.  So, it occurred to me that there might be different recommendations for working on Vintage gear - for example, there might be different solder types used ?


 
   
  You can post that question there. There are also RoHS compliant solder.


----------



## sling5s

Luxman sounds interesting but looks expensive too. 
  Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I would suggest you give Luxman or Kenwood a try.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think that your statement "I have my ears and you have yours" is not correct, and that is the root of the disagreement.
   
  The "output impedance" issue seems to originate from a web site where their concept is:
   
  " You have your primitive unreliable ears, while I have superior advanced technology. "
   
  They cannot seem to understand the end result of audio playback of music, is how it sounds to ears, and seem uncomfortable with the idea of making a judgement.
   
  SO, to those people - if the output impedance is wrong, then it simply cannot sound better, and your ears must be wrong if you think it sounds better...
   
_BTW, this new technology worship - to the point of self-loathing - is a fascinating psychology topic... which would unfortunately be off-topic in this forum..._


----------



## moodyrn

No, I just refuse to go back and forth over a debate over "my amps can't be a good match for my headphones because of the output impedance being so high". That's not what this thread is all about. I've seen too many threads get lock because of similar discussions. Some of them were even larger than this massive thread. That's the last thing I want. I think this thread is special, it is for me anyway. That's why I left it at....we can respectfully disagree. And I refuse to comment any further regarding the topic. Those type of discussions belong in the science forum.


----------



## 5aces

An observation has been raised about a headphone socket that is simply wired to the main speaker outputs via a large series *resistor*.

A.K.A.- vintage integrated amplifiers and receivers.

Does this resistor in the signal path change the frequencies on some headphones?

Can significantly better audio quality be obtained by connecting your line-level signals to a _*dedicated *_headphone amp?

My experience with high quality amplification using a resistive network to reduce output at the headphone jack, has been enjoyable.
Resistors are passive components, if there is a measurable interaction with audio frequencies and the resistive component, it certainly has not caused any troublesome reaction from my ears.

Audio includes math, which does not always play out in real world practice.
If I was mixing and monitoring using headphones, I might choose a different amplifier.
For home pleasure listening, I'll use my now vintage gear just as I always have since it was new.


----------



## gikigill

I have used my vintage amplifiers for headphones and can't find a single reason for complaint. Ortho and stats are a treat and dynamics do well too based on purely my personal opinion.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> No, I just refuse to go back and forth over a debate over "my amps can't be a good match for my headphones because of the output impedance being so high". That's not what this thread is all about. I've seen too many threads get lock because of similar discussions. Some of them were even larger than this massive thread. That's the last thing I want. I think this thread is special, it is for me anyway. That's why I left it at....we can respectfully disagree. And I refuse to comment any further regarding the topic. Those type of discussions belong in the science forum.


 
  +1
  lets respectively leave the subject guys and just appreciate our vintage gear. This thread is our hide away in the corner of head-fi, No arguments here


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> I would be interested in any recommendations of *soldering gear* to use on vintage amplifiers... I have a very generic "soldering iron" that is decades old, and I would want to get something a little more sophisticated if I was going to do something like "recap".
> 
> Either links to existing web pages, or your own personal experience would be fine, thanks!


 
  Believe it or not, one of the most comprehensive independent reviews on soldering equipment ever published is right here on head-fi :
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/416001/reviews-some-people-collect-amps-i-collect-soldering-stations
   
  As usual, it all boils down to money. You can search as far and wide as you possibly might have wish to do so , you will always arrive at the universal agreement the best soldering equipment produced is JBC from Spain. It is so advanced and so high priced its use is economical only in an industrial setting operating round the clock, where it actually starts saving money. Beside high costs, I was put off by their relentless model changing, sometimes only aimed at cosmetics and "current latest/greatest" model and pricing policy both for new and used gear. It can go so far that even latest JBC equipment available at distributors is "obsolete" if you go and visit the JBC webpage. But it is what you will find where nothing but the best will do. A nice example JBC vs Others : http://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/jbc-t210-a-(and-pa120-a)-handpiece-compared-to-some-other-tools/?PHPSESSID=1105589fe4babb97aee029ebbe639390
  If you ever decide to go that high, do yourself the favour and check whether latest/greatest model really incorporates meaningful advances or it is just a prettier face of the previous functionally equal version - it might save you a sizeable chunk of money.
   
  Being a pragmatical guy, after almost three months of self deliberation I opted for used Metcal soldering station, handle and enough tips to get me trough almost any imaginable job. The beauty of Metcal is the fact it is widespread enough to find good deals on ebay etc if you are patient. Few months later, I was able to add soldering tweezers. I can not think of anything else equaling it in bang for the buck department - only disadvantage is if you insist on Pb free soldering, where tip life is reduced. As this is vintage thread, I do not believe that will be of concern to you - all vintage equipment is soldered together with good ol' lead solder.
   
  Metcal might be harder to source than XY??, specially if you are looking for older PS2E-01 (STSS-P2SE-01 (110 V model ))  that will do the basics as well as current much higher priced stations offering handy but not absolutely necessary frills ( and prettier face ). If I managed to obtain a  STSS-PS2V-02 230 V 50 Hz version in Europe, most of the US based readers should have incomparably easier job in its native land - but you will have to wait a bit to score a bargain.


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm sorry moody but I have to say my bit. Signals processing & Acoustics is my bread and butter and EE was my undergrad. I'm very familiar with the math involved here. I'm a big fan of having a large resistor in the output chain that the vintage amps do. From an engineering standpoint, it's fantastically simple. Also, if you like how the amp sounds with speakers, you'll already know how it'll sound, in general with your HP. Sure, they could do a better job of shielding those resistors. Most of your crosstalk and other issues will come from having them right next to each other with no shielding. Textbook interference. I agree with analogsurvivor that those tend to be a place the vintage guys could have spent a few extra cents.
   
  Happily, if the circuit ended right there, it's still first order. If your HP were a pure resistive load, it would still be first order. But they're not. In general, most HPs are inductive loads (with a few tuned loads and a few capacitive loads in the mix depending on your HPs complexity and specific construction). Once you plug something in, it becomes a minimum 2nd order circuit. If you have beautifully engineered x-overs in your HP's it can be wayyyy higher orders than that. I think people are using the term "resistance" and "impedance" interchangeably, when they have discrete meanings. 
   
  I hate to leave everyone hanging, but the real conclusion isn't so cut and dried. High output impedance amps are wasteful. That's why they moved away from them. The make a ton of heat and just eat up electricity. BUT, they are less likely to kow-tow to your complex hp's whims and it'll make them do what it says. On the other hand, that can potentially prevent a type of synergy that can get the sweetest sound out of your luxurious headphones. So it really depends if your HP's are more the type that need to be in charge or need being told, so to speak. Which, in summary, means it all comes down to a good pairing and personal preference.
   
   
  *Last thing, the software to evaluate Nth order circuits is very good, but here's the problem - once one thing is out of spec or not as designed, your simulation will have less and less correlation with reality as the circuit gains in complexity. IMHO, new gear will fall on its face more often as they try to get hyper-complex due to build quality, basic design, and quality control. The math works in a perfect world, but "good enough" isn't "good enough" in a 9th order filter circuit.


----------



## harrinj

Just made an offer on a Marantz 4400 on Craigslist. he wants $650 but I offered $400 I HOPE he accepts. it's missing the AM antenna and looks to not have been cleaned since the 70's. I'd have to get LED's put in it too and have it checked out. Oh jeeze I hope he accepts


----------



## nailbunny7

I was told "the 1250, like many receivers of the day, drives the headphone output off the speaker outputs through a series resistor. No need for the mess of a speaker tap adapter."
If this is true, should I even have to bother with a speaker tap adaptor for my HE-6's?


----------



## hans030390

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> It is not what is "liked" - it is what most closely resembles the real thing. It may well be the frequency response deviations that do occur with high impedance drive suit your ear. That could be recreated through use of an equalizer. What is more critical is the loss of control of the amp has over the headphone driver if its output impedance is high ( or its damping factor is consequently low ). We react first to frequency response anomalies, everything else must be very much higher in magnitude to be directly audible. Say 1 dB at lower extreme can be the threshold between Personal Gotterdammerung and - inaudible. Distortion has to reach much more than 1 % to be directly objectionable - but you have first to be able to hear the basic signal. That means frequency response takes precedence.


 
   
  Based on what little I (think I) know, FR changes are more due to the impedance of the headphone than anything in this situation. For headphones with a flat impedance curve across the frequency spectrum, you shouldn't see any changes to the FR despite the output impedance of the amp. You can measure direct changes to the FR, however, if the headphone does not have a flat impedance curve and the output impedance on the amp isn't low enough.
   
  That's about the extent of my knowledge. When people start talking about headphone being a resistive load, not being affected much by impedance/electrical damping much, or just how vintage receivers are designed, I get lost. Pretty clueless in those areas...
   
  Either way, I have directly compared my Mad Dog on my Sansui 5000A vs. the Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.II with the 209 opamp. I was specifically listening for the differences people attribute to amps with too high of an output impedance, and I just could not hear it. Again, I'm not sure if this is due to how the headphone is designed (how it handles loads and/or its flat impedance curve), how the vintage receiver is designed, how the two interact together, and so on.
   
  I dunno...wish I understood electronic topics like these more.
   
*Unrelated question for anyone:* I have some internal shots of my Sherwood RX-4503 stereo receiver (not vintage by any means), and I'm trying to figure out if the headphone out is powered by the speaker amps or not. Would someone be willing to take a look at the shots and check for me? Also curious on any additional thoughts about the receiver and design itself...


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> I'm sorry moody but I have to say my bit. Signals processing & Acoustics is my bread and butter and EE was my undergrad. I'm very familiar with the math involved here. I'm a big fan of having a large resistor in the output chain that the vintage amps do. From an engineering standpoint, it's fantastically simple. Also, if you like how the amp sounds with speakers, you'll already know how it'll sound, in general with your HP. Sure, they could do a better job of shielding those resistors. Most of your crosstalk and other issues will come from having them right next to each other with no shielding. Textbook interference. I agree with analogsurvivor that those tend to be a place the vintage guys could have spent a few extra cents.
> 
> Happily, if the circuit ended right there, it's still first order. If your HP were a pure resistive load, it would still be first order. But they're not. In general, most HPs are inductive loads (with a few tuned loads and a few capacitive loads in the mix depending on your HPs complexity and specific construction). Once you plug something in, it becomes a minimum 2nd order circuit. If you have beautifully engineered x-overs in your HP's it can be wayyyy higher orders than that. I think people are using the term "resistance" and "impedance" interchangeably, when they have discrete meanings.
> 
> ...


 
  Great post - as well as your measurements "a couple posts back". I will have to put up some similar pc based measuring setup, but it means desktop
  pc, good enough soundcard etc - just for that purpose. Any suggestions for "something" that measures at least up to 50 , preferably (close to ) 100 kHz - both hardware and software ? Money IS tight ...
   
  It is amusing but not funny to observe how many errors is there in audio equipment, like the closely spaced unshielded resistors for hp out on vintage gear mentioned. Or not so vintage gear - how one can comment on "sonic superiority" of a piece of electronic audio equipment when measurements show channel separation deteriorating to 20 dB at 20 kHz is beyond me. Such piece of electronics should have been redesigned, not raved about in the subjective audio press.
   
  I may sound like measurement maniac - nothing could be more off. I always try to find a correlation for something that is audible, be it good or bad, in order to be able to improve performance. 
   
  Vintage gear is great - it can still hold its own against modern day x times more expensive competition. But please - do not defend its weakest point, that poor series resistor connected headphone output. It introduces another variable that will vary from amp to amp, meaning headphone X can sound waaayy different with an amp Y or Z - FAR more so than with different dedicated headphone amps. I try to have the least variables possible; no one has a perfect solution in the real world, but reducing their number to an absolute minimum  usually means better performance.


----------



## 5aces

phoenixg said:


> I'm a big fan of having a large resistor in the output chain that the vintage amps do.
> So it really depends if your HP's are more the type that need to be in charge or need being told, so to speak. Which, in summary, means it all comes down to a good pairing and personal preference.






analogsurviver said:


> do not defend its weakest point that poor series resistor connected headphone output.
> It introduces another variable that will vary from amp to amp...reducing their number to an absolute minimum  usually means better performance.




 

Had a chuckle over this chart from the latest AudiogoN newsletter. 

Enjoyed reading both your posts, very happy I'm not defending my thesis this morning with the pair of you on the board!

Underscores the importance of auditioning your ear speakers with a prospective amplifier or vice versa.
Most listeners have to go with a leap of faith and a mix of science if auditioning isn't possible.
Some of what makes these threads so amusing, is the inordinate amount of anguish after a headphone/amp mismatch, compared to people that have found a piece of audio bliss.

Few topics bring as wide a smile to me, for example, than reading how the Fostex TH-900 is impossible to own without a Bakoon HDA-5210mk3 amplifier.
Until someone pops in a says: "but you haven't heard the Fostex with the Zana Deux SE, people who already have the ZD Balancing Act consider purchasing the ZD SE _exclusively _ for the TH-900"

I chuckle over this stuff too.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Great post - as well as your measurements "a couple posts back". I will have to put up some similar pc based measuring setup, but it means desktop
> pc, good enough soundcard etc - just for that purpose. Any suggestions for "something" that measures at least up to 50 , preferably (close to ) 100 kHz - both hardware and software ? Money IS tight ...
> 
> 
> It is amusing but not funny to observe how many errors is there in audio equipment, like the closely spaced unshielded resistors for hp out on vintage gear mentioned. Or not so vintage gear


 
   
  Hmm, it _is_ possible to get really high sampling frequencies, but it gets pricey. You can get a used oscilloscope with a serial output and load whatever it does into your computer. You might be able to import that into your evaluation program. I'd want a tone generator that I can sweep through frequencies, or let the computer do that. The problem with letting the comp do it is that it'll have quantization noise at the sampling frequencies. (1024 hz and 2^n harmonics often)
  If you do it by hand, a decent o-scope will run $200-300. The software will be anywhere from free to $800 (MATLAB). Using MATLAB is what I'd do, but it's like using a pile driver to put in a finishing nail.
   
  Regarding errors in vintage AND modern gear - I really understand where they come up. It's not that they didn't know what would happen. Often, they just decide that the spec they have to live or die by is the height of their stack of dollars they have to spend on making the amp compared to the one they get for selling the amp.
  If you compare truly TOTL modern equipment to TOTL vintage gear, they are more similar than different. TOTL technology hasn't changed much, besides putting a computer between your hands and the amp, and some extra buttons to fiddle with to decode new formats. From there down the chain, it's just a matter of quality parts - power supplies, filters, caps, transistors, resistors, inductors, and SHIELDING. I like overbuilt amps with discrete components because they're more likely to be easy to fix and upgrade. I like amps that are heavy, with massive, overbuilt power supplies and components, and I demand shielding on components carrying the sound signal, especially low powered lines. While those things all exist in some modern equipment, they exist in spades in the vintage market at a price range I can hit and afford to experiment with. Can I get an amen?


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Had a chuckle over this chart from the latest AudiogoN newsletter.
> 
> Enjoyed reading both your posts, very happy I'm not defending my thesis this morning with the pair of you on the board!
> 
> ...


 
  I chuckle over it too. Ultimately, we all want our music out of our equipment to sound to our liking - and if possible, within what we can still beg/borrow/steal/mortgage/worse. 
   
  There may indeed be _exclusive _combinations of gear that work well together and can sound awful if paired to another "neutral" design. Certain Scottish manufacturer did adhere to this philosophy, at least in the past. I try to avoid that approach, or if it is unavoidable, because it really delivers results unattainable by other means, it should be clearly stated " These PQ macaroni taste as advertised only when cooked in XY bottled water".
   
  In say last 30 years, there has been enough advances in electronics components and price reductions for what was once was over the top luxury to be regarded order of the day. ICs that were available 30 years ago are now to large extent still with us, but are much more affordable than they were back then. One can replace them today with SOTA designs that have vastly improved everything - but basic opamp of three decades ago at very reasonable price will still give more predictable results with more headphones than using resistor at the output of a power amp.
   
  There are cases where REALLY dedicated headphone amps are unavoidable - electrostatics. Of course one can use normal power amp and connect it to ESLs with a transformer. But it will never be the same as with a dedicated high voltage transformerless amp. Trouble, as usual, it looks expensive,,,
   
  One aspect must never be forgotten - what is the input signal. In usual studio recording, the sound has gone through so many bottlenecks a la series output resistor in headphone output that yet one more bottleneck does not really matter much. But if these bottlenecks, one by one, are finally eliminated, that is then another story.
   
  It is easy to say "ah, that does not matter much". Say it n times - they add up and it is easy to end up with "telephone" sound in the end.
   
  The amount of objective measurements done today is very low compared to technical possibilities. Back in vintage times, when audio was a serious player in even large corporations, there were far more and more comprehensive measurements than today, despite lesser possibilities.. Far from saying that if it measures right, it must sound right - but if it even measures poorly, I can like it as much as possible, that still does not make such a device accurate. The effects of damping ( or lack thereof ) could be measured with pulses - back in the day, packets of pulses at discrete frequencies were sent to the speaker and its output was measured by microphone in an anechoic chamber. Guess what - best "midrange" pulses I ever saw belonged to Quad ESL ( now often referred to as 57 ) - and this is widely recognized as one of the midrange, if not THE midrange speaker of all time. The same could be used for headphones and their amplification; it is more difficult due to head/ear interface that is not linear as with loudspeakers, but this is single frequency test and should not be affected in any way save for amplitude ( if we ignore harmonic distortion etc ). If a speaker/headphone produces very similar acoustic output to its electrical input, it must be regarded as accurate. If it is sloppy/floppy ...
   
  How does that compare to listener impressions and ultimately sales figures of the manufacturer is unfortunately entirely different matter, If customers vote with their wallets for fat, overblown bass - guess what will end up being in production. 
   
  Enough of this rant - I do not own any receiver, vintage or otherwise, but have vintage integrated amps, tuners, preamps, equalizers, power amps and some much more esoteric vintage audio equipment. And will post a pic ocasionally - but do not expect to see headphones plugged into headphone output jack.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Hmm, it _is_ possible to get really high sampling frequencies, but it gets pricey. You can get a used oscilloscope with a serial output and load whatever it does into your computer. You might be able to import that into your evaluation program. I'd want a tone generator that I can sweep through frequencies, or let the computer do that. The problem with letting the comp do it is that it'll have quantization noise at the sampling frequencies. (1024 hz and 2^n harmonics often)
> If you do it by hand, a decent o-scope will run $200-300. The software will be anywhere from free to $800 (MATLAB). Using MATLAB is what I'd do, but it's like using a pile driver to put in a finishing nail.
> 
> Regarding errors in vintage AND modern gear - I really understand where they come up. It's not that they didn't know what would happen. Often, they just decide that the spec they have to live or die by is the height of their stack of dollars they have to spend on making the amp compared to the one they get for selling the amp.
> If you compare truly TOTL modern equipment to TOTL vintage gear, they are more similar than different. TOTL technology hasn't changed much, besides putting a computer between your hands and the amp, and some extra buttons to fiddle with to decode new formats. From there down the chain, it's just a matter of quality parts - power supplies, filters, caps, transistors, resistors, inductors, and SHIELDING. I like overbuilt amps with discrete components because they're more likely to be easy to fix and upgrade. I like amps that are heavy, with massive, overbuilt power supplies and components, and I demand shielding on components carrying the sound signal, especially low powered lines. While those things all exist in some modern equipment, they exist in spades in the vintage market at a price range I can hit and afford to experiment with. Can I get an amen?


 
  Thank you for the suggestions regarding measuring equipment. Ideally, we all would like sports bulldozers with low mileage, yet in real life...
   
  I could not agree with you more regarding both vintage and modern gear. I prefer vintage for the very same reason you do - one can fiddle with something that is basically well made and its present cost is reasonable and within reach, allowing for upgrades - although similar improvements to modern gear are possible, it is far too costly for such things. 
   
  A.M.E.N.
   
  May I ask one non gear related question - which kind of music is most dear to your heart ?


----------



## 5aces

Can I get an AMEN


----------



## LugBug1

Any news on the SX-1280 Matt? 
   
  I've just bought another lower end Marantz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 They don't come round very often at my neck of the woods so I had to grab it. Twas a bargain


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats on the Marantz. I'm conflicted about the sx-1280. I went to look at it last night. It was in a little better condition than I expected except for a chip out of the heatsink...pretty minor. It's been serviced but not re-capped. My ears tell my that the Sansui 9090 is more technically gifted but the sx-1280 is hitting some kind of emotional response that I like. 
   
  I would grab the sx-1280 but I'd have to give up the 9090 as I can't afford both.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Congrats on the Marantz. I'm conflicted about the sx-1280. I went to look at it last night. It was in a little better condition than I expected except for a chip out of the heatsink...pretty minor. It's been serviced but not re-capped. My ears tell my that the Sansui 9090 is more technically gifted but the sx-1280 is hitting some kind of emotional response that I like.
> 
> I would grab the sx-1280 but I'd have to give up the 9090 as I can't afford both.


 
  Tough call mate. It would be easy if you could keep both but... Your Sansui _is_ a beaut!


----------



## MattTCG

There have been times, several actually, where I have bought gear (usually hp's) and then sold them. Not because they were bad or that I didn't enjoy them, but because I wanted to try something different...hear it for myself. The only way to do that is to sell off what I've got and to purchase something else. 
   
  Then later down the road I sometimes "re-aquire" the same item that I sold because in the end I realized that it was more enjoyable than anything else. The only issue with vintage gear, following my same pattern, is that vintage things are not always available to "re-aquire." So the stakes are bigger here. I spend the night sleeping on the 1280 decision. Bottom line is that I want it and I'd give up the 9090 for it.


----------



## Silent One

Nuthin' like being well on the way, cruisin' Audio Avenue all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




content and comfy. When ye ol' fork in the road 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




makes its appearance. Soooo, which way to go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And forced to leave somethin' behind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




to boot!
   
  What a ride!


----------



## MattTCG

Silent...which receivers do you own?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> There have been times, several actually, where I have bought gear (usually hp's) and then sold them. Not because they were bad or that I didn't enjoy them, but because I wanted to try something different...hear it for myself. The only way to do that is to sell off what I've got and to purchase something else.
> 
> Then later down the road I sometimes "re-aquire" the same item that I sold because in the end I realized that it was more enjoyable than anything else. The only issue with vintage gear, following my same pattern, is that vintage things are not always available to "re-aquire." So the stakes are bigger here. I spend the night sleeping on the 1280 decision. Bottom line is that I want it and I'd give up the 9090 for it.


 
  I understand exactly where you are coming from. I only have room for so much gear, and something have to leave everytime I get something new. Recently my beloved x100c had to hit the door once the 500c came. Before that, my very mint 2330B got the boot when my sansui came. I wish I could justify keeping everything I get my hands on, but you can have only so many setups. But the furstration is again what makes this hobby so great. I couldn't afford to just go out an by high end modern gear on a whim. It was something I had to plan and save for. When ever I bought a 4 figure amp in the past I had to live with it for a long time. No matter how good it was, If I wanted to upgrade, it was inevitable I was going to take a bath on the resale. 
   
  Vintage allows you to try many different amps with little risk. I've always at the very least got what I paid, but in most instances got more than I paid. So instead of saying, I wish I can afford to have a great sounding setup, it becomes, umm what amp do I want to try next. Fun times indeed.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> There have been times, several actually, where I have bought gear (usually hp's) and then sold them. Not because they were bad or that I didn't enjoy them, but because I wanted to try something different...hear it for myself. The only way to do that is to sell off what I've got and to purchase something else.
> 
> Then later down the road I sometimes "re-aquire" the same item that I sold because in the end I realized that it was more enjoyable than anything else. The only issue with vintage gear, following my same pattern, is that vintage things are not always available to "re-aquire." So the stakes are bigger here. I spend the night sleeping on the 1280 decision. Bottom line is that I want it and I'd give up the 9090 for it.


 
  Yeah that's what this hobby is all about it seems. We're never content for long no matter how much you like something at a given time, there will be a time further down the road that you will want to change it. I keep telling myself 'no regrets' As long as you are having fun. Plus there's nothing like acquiring that new toy haha!


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> There have been times, several actually, where I have bought gear (usually hp's) and then sold them. Not because they were bad or that I didn't enjoy them, but because I wanted to try something different...hear it for myself. The only way to do that is to sell off what I've got and to purchase something else.
> 
> Then later down the road I sometimes "re-aquire" the same item that I sold because in the end I realized that it was more enjoyable than anything else. The only issue with vintage gear, following my same pattern, is that vintage things are not always available to "re-aquire." So the stakes are bigger here. I spend the night sleeping on the 1280 decision. Bottom line is that I want it and I'd give up the 9090 for it.


 
  So you do not have enough cash flow (or credit) to get the SX1280, and then compare it to the 9090DB, and then sell the one you like least ?
   
  That is what I am doing... the Marantz 1040 arrives Friday and the already-recapped Sansui AU-417 ships today (from the next state, it might be here Friday, in which case the UPS driver may curse me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.)


----------



## LugBug1

^^ don't get credit Matt... 
   
  have you any idea how many children this man has.. ! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 And they're all girls! Verrry expensive I can tell ya.


----------



## MattTCG

I can swing the extra cost of both receivers for a week or so. Allowing me time to truly evaluate both and choose which I like best. But then the trouble is selling on ebay. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I don't like to sell very heavy very old things on ebay. So it would be a craigslist deal. 
   
  Regardless, I don't think that I can turn down the sx1280...


----------



## LugBug1

Sounds like your hearts set on it.
  I'm the same with selling big amps on Ebay. The only ones I've sold have been for 'collection only' and of course you lose a lot of interest that way.. And it can take a long time.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The key is knowing how to pack and being willing to go through the trouble of doing it.  Many howtos on the bay.


----------



## MattTCG

I'd pay someone to professionally pack anything like that for ebay on a high ticket item and have insurance of course.


----------



## kstuart

That reminds me of the most affordable McIntosh item on ebay:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-McIntosh-Triple-Boxed-Heavy-Duty-Shipping-Carton-/221102152741?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item337ab71c25
   
  Only $75 !  (plus $55 for shipping)


----------



## LugBug1

I'd say I'm pretty good with the packing side of it. I've been selling delicate items on the bay for years.. Its just the cost and hassle of shipping. I don't drive so can't drop big parcels off any place. So I'd have to use a courier to collect. And collect when I'm not at work.. I'm stressing just thinking about it hahah
   
  1st world probs I know...


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'd pay someone to professionally pack anything like that for ebay on a high ticket item and have insurance of course.


 
  If you don't mind the profit hit, FedEx or UPS Store will do it, guarantee the pack job and make it look professional.  Not cheap tho.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Silent...which receivers do you own?


 
   
  Inside my single tea room|book room|listening room:
   
  Solid state
   
  Pioneer SX-650
  Pioneer SX-D7000
  Sansui G-22000
   
   
  Tube
   
  2359glenn 6AS7 OTL amp
  Shindo Labs F2a Sinhonia monoblocks


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> I was told "the 1250, like many receivers of the day, drives the headphone output off the speaker outputs through a series resistor. No need for the mess of a speaker tap adapter."
> If this is true, should I even have to bother with a speaker tap adaptor for my HE-6's?


 
   
  Was able to find a copy of the 1250 service manual online. The headphone output does indeed come off the loudspeaker outs through 150 ohm resistors.
   
  I'd say just plug in and enjoy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  se


----------



## moodyrn

oregonian said:


> If you don't mind the profit hit, FedEx or UPS Store will do it, guarantee the pack job and make it look professional.  Not cheap tho.




I wouldn't trust FedEx. They damaged my fisher, after they packaged it. And now won't even pay the claim, and yes insurance was purchased.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I wouldn't trust FedEx. They damaged my fisher, after they packaged it. And now won't even pay the claim, and yes insurance was purchased.


 
  Golden rule with packaging: it has to be packed so to survive fall from any angle imaginable from at least half a metre height. If you think that your package will be babied because of "fragile" "this side up " etc stickers - think again.
   
  Funny statistics with ebay sellers - the less expensive the item and less paid for shipping, the better the packaging. And unfortunately vice versa. There are dedicated sellers who pack things better than factory original box could ever hope. Sadly, they are vastly outnumbered by the other less desirable "species".


----------



## MattTCG

What do I spy with my little eye?


----------



## Rawrbington

moodyrn said:


> I wouldn't trust FedEx. They damaged my fisher, after they packaged it. And now won't even pay the claim, and yes insurance was purchased.



you guys see this about a week ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_jkUVgrc0


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What do I spy with my little eye?


 

 I spy a stork delivering a new Pioneer............................


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What do I spy with my little eye?


 
   





 We're coming home, baby!


----------



## MattTCG

Oh, but wait. You neglected to look in the back seat, shame on you all.


----------



## moodyrn

analogsurviver said:


> Golden rule with packaging: it has to be packed so to survive fall from any angle imaginable from at least half a metre height. If you think that your package will be babied because of "fragile" "this side up " etc stickers - think again.
> 
> Funny statistics with ebay sellers - the less expensive the item and less paid for shipping, the better the packaging. And unfortunately vice versa. There are dedicated sellers who pack things better than factory original box could ever hope. Sadly, they are vastly outnumbered by the other less desirable "species".




I didn't buy from ebay, and it wasn't packed by the seller. FedEx was paid a ton to do the packaging themselves because they said it was the only they would be liable for it. So that's why I said I wouldn't trust FedEx. There's a reason they are so much cheaper than ups. I never had a problem with claims from ups as long as they were doing the packaging.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Matt. Glad you decided to pull the trigger on it. Congrats on the speakers as well.


----------



## Anavel0

I'm pretty excited. I go to pick-up a Pioneer SX-850 tomorrow. It'll be my first vintage piece. He also has a turntable for me to check out. So, here's to hoping its a nicer vintage table too.


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats on the Pioneer. They make some pretty darn good stuff!! Do a little reading on TT's before you head out there so that you know what to look for. Hopefully it is in working order and you can get a chance audition it. Be prepared to buy a cartridge.


----------



## Anavel0

I read the entire "post photos of your turntable" thread which is, at the same time, the worst photos thread and one of the best info threads on Head-Fi. Also, a couple other of the more popular vinyl threads.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Golden rule with packaging: it has to be packed so to survive fall from any angle imaginable from at least half a metre height. If you think that your package will be babied because of "fragile" "this side up " etc stickers - think again.
> 
> Funny statistics with ebay sellers - the less expensive the item and less paid for shipping, the better the packaging. And unfortunately vice versa. There are dedicated sellers who pack things better than factory original box could ever hope. Sadly, they are vastly outnumbered by the other less desirable "species".


 
  The way I have done it, and it has worked every time:
   
  1.) Three layers of bubble wrap on the vintage item.
  2.) Bubble wrapped item placed in a box in which it can't move.
  3.) Box taped and layer of bubble wrap on the box.
  4.) Bubble wrapped box placed in another box and surrounded by foam so it can't move.
  5.) Tape the heck out of the outside box.
   
  So far Fedex has not been able to destroy the contents.


----------



## moodyrn

I've had great results doing it myself, and have even gotten compliments from buyers left in my feedback on eBay. The key is to warp it in enough bubble wrap so that you can bounce it like a ball. And have it incased in about 2 inches of foam on all sides. And for the really heavy items, put that box in another box with about 2 to 3 inches of foam(not foam peanuts) on all sides.


----------



## sling5s

I knew vintage receivers sounded better than budget and midfi desktop headphone amps, but my pioneer sx-737 (having spent some time comparing) sounds to my ears better than my hifi Violectric V200. I mean I paid $35 dollars for my pioneer at a thrift store compared to the $1299 for my V200.  Just doesn't make sense.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Please don't tell anyone.


----------



## gikigill

Will you kids keep it down, we adults are trying to save money here  

"Instead of spending on megabuck amps"


----------



## MattTCG

Just a few initial impressions of the sx-1280, mostly as compared to the 9090. They are both fantastic. I could call either end game. They offer a sound signature that is slightly different. Both offer the ability to drive very inefficient orthodynamic hp's with ease (he-4 for me). 
   
  After an hours time listening to the sx-1280, I'll say that the music feels wonderfully alive, rich and well driven. Leaves me wanting nothing. I don't find myself looking for more bass, better mids or sweeter treble. It all just feels "right" across the spectrum. 
   
  Much more listening to do. Not sure that I'll be able to turn loose of either. May just have to buy another stand.


----------



## jasonb

Nice! Glad you like it. I'm really liking my new (well, new to me) SX-750. Makes both of my full size headphones sound leagues better than they do with the little baby Fiio E17. I'm still using the E17 (along with the L7 line out dock) as my DAC though. The next step down the road will probably be a better full sized DAC.     
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just a few initial impressions of the sx-1280, mostly as compared to the 9090. They are both fantastic. I could call either end game. They offer a sound signature that is slightly different. Both offer the ability to drive very inefficient orthodynamic hp's with ease (he-4 for me).
> 
> After an hours time listening to the sx-1280, I'll say that the music feels wonderfully alive, rich and well driven. Leaves me wanting nothing. I don't find myself looking for more bass, better mids or sweeter treble. It all just feels "right" across the spectrum.
> 
> Much more listening to do. Not sure that I'll be able to turn loose of either. May just have to buy another stand.


----------



## MattTCG

Hot dam the 1280 drives my he-4 well!! I was expecting the 1280 to be a touch thinner and not as warm as the 9090. I knew my instincts were right about the 1280.


----------



## jasonb

What are you feeding the 1280 with, and where on the volume dial are you listening?
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Hot dam the 1280 drives my he-4 well!! I was expecting the 1280 to be a touch thinner and not as warm as the 9090. I knew my instincts were right about the 1280.


----------



## MattTCG

Pioneer elite sacd player. I'm a medium level listener at most and I've got the pot at 10:30 and good grief it's bumpin'. Just went through my jazz reference tracks and now spicin' it up with a little Daft Punk: RAM. Oh dat bass.


----------



## jasonb

Try the Mad Dogs on it yet?
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Pioneer elite sacd player. I'm a medium level listener at most and I've got the pot at 10:30 and good grief it's bumpin'. Just went through my jazz reference tracks and now spicin' it up with a little Daft Punk: RAM. Oh dat bass.


----------



## MattTCG

Listening to MD now. Both the he-4 and MD sound slightly better IMO on the 1280...don't hate me Moody, you know that I still love the 9090. This 1280 is a keeper. The sound is just tremendous. I haven't even hooked up speakers to it yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Given my recent acquisitions, I'll let you guys in a little secret. Shhh...don't tell anyone. The TCG in MattTCG stand for Tremendous Collector of Gear!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I crack myself up.


----------



## jasonb

My self modded T50rp sounds ridiculous on my 750. Bass impact is definitely fun on the right song. I'm listening to some Dead Soul Tribe right now and the bass drum has some major impact. Bass knob at +1 and treble at +2 is just about perfect for the way I want my T50rp to sound. My Q701 gets the bass knob at +2 and the treble right in the middle. The 750 makes both headphones sound quite a bit better than just the E17. I'm definitely glad that I found this for $40. Sounds like a steal.
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Listening to MD now. Both the he-4 and MD sound slightly better IMO on the 1280...don't hate me Moody, you know that I still love the 9090. This 1280 is a keeper. The sound is just tremendous. I haven't even hooked up speakers to it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, not at all. I'm really glad you're enjoying it. My 9090db has been fully restored and including all caps, many resistors, diodes, all trimming pots and relay. So it's really not a fair fight between it and my 1280. But  they are close enough that I think the 1280 would pass it if it received similar treatment. So the fact my stock 1280 can at least keep up with a completely refurbished 9090db is a true testament to how good it is. I would like to get it restored one day as well, but since my stock ka-907 also beats it, it's first in line for the restore treatment. 
   
  But wow you've gone from 0-100 in a flash.  It was just a short while ago you were checking out my sansui at a meet, and now a you have 1280?  All I can say to that is.


----------



## PhoenixG

Regarding shipping, I have to ship a set of speakers every now and then to keep the collection from taking over the house. I usually wrap them in plastic wrap and build a 2'' thick fitted foam box around the speakers, immobilize the drivers and add 1/2'' of bubble wrap to the corners of the foam. Then I custom fit a double ply box and put a hard foam foundation on one end to act as the bottom and seal the box. The important part is to support and protect the corners. As a technique, I label them fragile and "this side up." Also, I find that just having insurance labels increases the odds of being treated well. I have never lost a speaker, despite the best effort of the shippers. I had a guy send a photo of a box he got from me, it looked like it survived a tornado, but there was no damage inside.
  On really heavy speakers, I go a little more overboard. I do everything above, then I use a springy foam to make a suspension of sorts on the outside of the box and I double box it. The springy foam doesn't deflate like bubble wrap. I've only had to ship things over 100 lbs per speaker a few times, but man is it a pain. Takes me all day to pack them.


----------



## kstuart

This will make you feel even better about your purchase (I'm assuming that the two models are similar):
   
  http://www.iavscanada.com/Articles/art_receiver_shootout.htm


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What do I spy with my little eye?


 
  HAPPY DAYS!!


----------



## harrinj

I hope those damn hipsters don't get into this stuff (or are they already?) they have no business in this kind of stuff. When ever I see a hipster in a record store I always think to myself "what a phoney..."


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> What do I spy with my little eye?


 
  oh amazing! there is one for sale on CL that's been up forever that he wants over $1,200 for... he must be out of tune with reality


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> I hope those damn hipsters don't get into this stuff (or are they already?) they have no business in this kind of stuff. When ever I see a hipster in a record store I always think to myself "what a phoney..."


 
   
  I'm guessing that hipsters have more money than we do??


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm guessing that hipsters have more money than we do??


 
  well they certainly would raise the prices -_______-


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Regarding shipping, I have to ship a set of speakers every now and then to keep the collection from taking over the house. I usually wrap them in plastic wrap and build a 2'' thick fitted foam box around the speakers, immobilize the drivers and add 1/2'' of bubble wrap to the corners of the foam. Then I custom fit a double ply box and put a hard foam foundation on one end to act as the bottom and seal the box. The important part is to support and protect the corners. As a technique, I label them fragile and "this side up." Also, I find that just having insurance labels increases the odds of being treated well. I have never lost a speaker, despite the best effort of the shippers. I had a guy send a photo of a box he got from me, it looked like it survived a tornado, but there was no damage inside.
> On really heavy speakers, I go a little more overboard. I do everything above, then I use a springy foam to make a suspension of sorts on the outside of the box and I double box it. The springy foam doesn't deflate like bubble wrap. I've only had to ship things over 100 lbs per speaker a few times, but man is it a pain. Takes me all day to pack them.


 
   
  A major time commitment to get things packed right, for sure!


----------



## MIKELAP

What do you guys think of the Fisher TX-100 amp decent .Thanks


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> What do you guys think of the Fisher TX-100 amp decent .Thanks


 
  That looks in great condition. Nice 60's solid state  Hows it sound?


----------



## kazsud

steve eddy said:


> Was able to find a copy of the 1250 service manual online. The headphone output does indeed come off the loudspeaker outs through 150 ohm resistors.
> 
> I'd say just plug in and enjoy.
> 
> ...



 
 What about the 1050?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> That looks in great condition. Nice 60's solid state  Hows it sound?


 
  Have no idea just saw this one today wondering i its was worth pursuing .


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kazsud said:


> What about the 1050?


 
  They all do from this era. All are powered from the main transformer via resistors 
  Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Have no idea just saw this one today wondering i its was worth pursuing .


 
  Well it defo looks in great nick. They're hard to come by at my neck of the woods, and the are very collectable. Maybe some of the more experienced on here might give you a hint at sound quality as I'm pretty new to vintage.


----------



## LugBug1

my new Marantz 2220,
   
  Cleaned her up good n proper and she sounds lovely. The warmest sounding vintage I've heard yet. There is a slight hiss in one channel using the HD800's. No surprise there.. Not too annoying but I think I'll be using this with the AKG's. No need to touch any tone controls, the sound complements them really well. Never heard the K701's sound so full and warm!


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> my new Marantz 2220,
> 
> Cleaned her up good n proper and she sounds lovely. The warmest sounding vintage I've heard yet. There is a slight hiss in one channel using the HD800's. No surprise there.. Not too annoying but I think I'll be using this with the AKG's. No need to touch any tone controls, the sound complements them really well. Never heard the K701's sound so full and warm!


 
  How would Marantz in general sound with low Ohms Denons (25 ohms) to warm probably !


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Have no idea just saw this one today wondering i its was worth pursuing .


 
   
  It seems the 1st generation transistor solid state, some people really dig them since Legendary Marantz 18 is one of them. I have Fisher 203 (or 230) which is from almost the same era, warm and muddy sound, not impressive at all. I don't know how people restore them? But if you don't want to restore it, I think you'd better pursue other stuff.


----------



## Steve Eddy

kazsud said:


> What about the 1050?




I'm sure it does as well. Hell, even my TEAC A-H500, which is of a much more modern vintage takes the same approach. 

se


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> How would Marantz in general sound with low Ohms Denons (25 ohms) to warm probably !


 
  I haven't tried them, but I think it's 'Silent one' who uses Denon's with receivers and he swears by it! But I think he uses a Pioneer and they tend to be cleaner sounding than Marantz. Another thing is, early 70's amps generally speaking tend to be warmer IME. My other Marantz 2216b from the late 70's is much brighter from the mids up than my 2220 from the early 70's. 
   
  I've only used two headphones with vintage amps HD800 and K701's one is 300 ohm and the other 50 ohm. Both work well imo. But both are bright headphones.


----------



## palmfish

I used to use my Denons with my Carver receiver and Pioneer SA-5800 with good results. They are low impedance but impedance is stable across the frequency band and they have relatively big magnets which I think gives them a high level of mechanical damping. In my experience, they are more or less immune to high output impedance amps and I believe these are the reasons why.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I haven't tried them, but I think it's 'Silent one' who uses Denon's with receivers and he swears by it! But I think he uses a Pioneer and they tend to be cleaner sounding than Marantz. Another thing is, early 70's amps generally speaking tend to be warmer IME. My other Marantz 2216b from the late 70's is much brighter from the mids up than my 2220 from the early 70's.
> 
> I've only used two headphones with vintage amps HD800 and K701's one is 300 ohm and the other 50 ohm. Both work well imo. But both are bright headphones.


 

 I too use my Denon D7000, D2000 and D600 on my 2 Pioneer, 2 Kenwood and Realistic vintage units.  I have no issues with noise or any hiss on any of them at any time.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I haven't tried them, but I think it's 'Silent one' who uses Denon's with receivers and he swears by it! But I think he uses a Pioneer and they tend to be cleaner sounding than Marantz. Another thing is, early 70's amps generally speaking tend to be warmer IME. My other Marantz 2216b from the late 70's is much brighter from the mids up than my 2220 from the early 70's.
> 
> I've only used two headphones with vintage amps HD800 and K701's one is 300 ohm and the other 50 ohm. Both work well imo. But both are bright headphones.


 
  Thanks good to know.


----------



## Silent One

The only thing I didn't particularly like about pairing the Denon D7000 with the Pioneer SX-D7000 was "Creep control." Trying to settle in at a fixed conservative volume and then wanting to crank or least turn it up
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





when hearing good jams! Addicting, I tell ya... that pair can really move air!!!


----------



## kstuart

By the way, a good free source for manuals, including service manuals is:
   
  http://hifiengine.com/
   
  Quote: 





> Are you looking for information about your HiFi equipment, or operating instructions/servicing information?
> The HiFi Engine library has images and specifications for thousands of models, with free downloads of owners manuals, service manuals, schematics and product catalogues for amplifiers, pre-amps, power amps, tuners, tape decks, cd players etc.
> The files are *free* to download, all that we ask is they are not redistributed without prior permission and never for financial gain.
> Thanks to the many visitors who have scanned documents and donated images to the gallery.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I used to use my Denons with my Carver receiver and Pioneer SA-5800 with good results. They are low impedance but impedance is stable across the frequency band and they have relatively big magnets which I think gives them a high level of mechanical damping. In my experience, they are more or less immune to high output impedance amps and I believe these are the reasons why.


 
  My aunt and Uncle had a Carver and it stopped working (that's all they said) and you know what they did with it?!?! they THREW IT AWAY! ohhhhohohohohoho I was so pissed! Imagine how many people have just 'thrown away' these good receivers. I mean it was the ugliest receiver in the world but jeeze!


----------



## parbaked

OFFICE UPGRADE!
  Scored some lovely little Sonus Faber Toy Monitors for my 1974 Pioneer SA-7100!
  Rega P2/Benz Micro Silver or Rega Planet CD > SA-7100 > SF Toy Monitors.
  Sounds Great!
   

   

   
  Walnut, Leather & Brass = Sexy!


----------



## Anavel0

Picked up the SX-850. It needs a good cleaning and has a few scuffs on the front but relatively unmolested. 

Has a very slight hum at low volume but could probably be fix with a deoxit treatment. 

The signal and tuning meters appear to be dead though.  

The sound? The sound is phenomenal! Granted I'm coming from a Little Dot MK III so I can't compare to high-end headphone amps.


----------



## harrinj

I offered $400 on a Marantz 4400 Quadraphonic receiver on Craigslist and he accepted  it even includes the SQ Adapter. the AM antenna is missing, but that's not a big deal to me, i'd put a new one on at some point though. Oscilloscope working etc only some lights burnt out, however I'd get LED's put in it.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> Picked up the SX-850. It needs a good cleaning and has a few scuffs on the front but relatively unmolested.
> 
> Has a very slight hum at low volume but could probably be fix with a deoxit treatment.
> 
> ...


 
  Nice! and the hum either Power filter caps are leaking or capacitors. my HK 430 and Kenwood KR-7400 have that same problem.


----------



## Anavel0

Can anyone guess why the front isn't lighting up from this photo?

Hint: There is 4 reasons why. Or 4 missing reasons why.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> Can anyone guess why the front isn't lighting up from this photo?
> 
> Hint: There is 4 reasons why. Or 4 missing reasons why.


 

 Missing bulbs in those holes....................


----------



## Anavel0

Yep, also it looks like someone did some work on it at some point. There are a couple plastic retention clips, that hold some things to the main metal body, missing. 

I'm not upset though. I paid $50 for it to sound good not be in immaculate condition.


----------



## MattTCG

Bulbs are $6 for a three pack at Batteries Plus...be sure to get 6v


----------



## MattTCG

Lovin' it!!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> My aunt and Uncle had a Carver and it stopped working (that's all they said) and you know what they did with it?!?! they THREW IT AWAY! ohhhhohohohohoho I was so pissed! Imagine how many people have just 'thrown away' these good receivers. I mean it was the ugliest receiver in the world but jeeze!


 
   
  Oh, that's tragic! Probably just need a fuse or something...


----------



## Anavel0

Okay, after having a pretty exciting 2+ hour listening session, I'm really happy with the sound. The treble is a bit bright though, but by no means off putting. It stands out compared to the bass but in a good way. I just wish the bass had the same kind of emphasis the treble has to it. But this could also be from the Sennheiser sound signature. 

I'm saving up for LCD 2s now. (Subject to change without notice.) So, we'll have to see what it sounds like with those. 

I'm also trying to decide if I want to spend $$$ to do a full restore/re-cap on the SX-850 or leave it as is with just a little work till I come across a better piece.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> I'm also trying to decide if I want to spend $$$ to do a full restore/re-cap on the SX-850 or leave it as is with just a little work till I come across a better piece.


 
   
  Your life will soon be occupied by hunting CL and garage sale. Be warned!


----------



## MattTCG

I think that a recap would be worth it depending on the price. You can usually find someone to do it reasonably priced. You'll also be surprised at how much better the amp may sound once you get the recap done.


----------



## nailbunny7

I get to join the cool kids club soon 
Just bought a pioneer sx-5590
Should be in monday!


----------



## Silent One

Indeed... congrats!


----------



## moodyrn

Very cool and very rare. So you essential just scored the black face version of the sx1250. Wow, now you know you have to post tons of pics of that once you received it. Congrats on a really great score.


----------



## MattTCG

You just hardly ever see the black faced versions here. Pics!!...we need pics.


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> You just hardly ever see the black faced versions here. Pics!!...we need pics.


 
  Soon as it comes in, I'll be sure to post a few


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> You just hardly ever see the black faced versions here. Pics!!...we need pics.


 
  Soon as it comes in, I'll be sure to post a few


----------



## kenshinhimura

anyone know how the pioneer sx-1010 compares to sx-780 and sansui 7070 as far as sound signature?


----------



## harrinj

Last night out of pure boredom around 3AM I decided to do a little experiment... I hooked my family's old early 90's Sony Hi8 handycam to the tape out of my HK 670 and RCA analog in to the handycam and recorded the audio onto a blank Hi8 tape. I cannot believe the sound quality omg it blew me away. how the hell can it sound so good on a Hi-8 tape? holy crap... I hooked it up to my KA-7100 amp since it's line-out and it about blew me away how wonderful the sound was. too bad it's just a bit too big to use as a portable player  jeeze 20 year old tape and it sounds better than the source that was recorded to it.


----------



## LugBug1

Bad news guys... My bedside Pioneer is dying. Sniff. She started to feel ill earlier this week. A little bit of distortion in one channel. I put it down to oxide on the switches. Next day I took her apart and cleaned and cleaned. Plugged in on the night time and she sounded fab again  Then about an hour later the same thing... Only worse  both channels dull and distorted slowly getting worse. Suppose I'll have to hand her off for parts n spares bless her..
   
  Still we had a great time!
   
  Here she is during happier times when I'd just given her a paint job (rustic teak!) She was proud as punch!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  ... booohooo.... mwaaah snif snif mwwwaaaaaaHHH  snif sniffle. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

   
 
  Oh well. Looks like I'll have to get another Pioneer. Bigger and better one! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hurry up pay pay!!


----------



## verde57

I think you need to clean it again. You just stirred the dust on those contacts.


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry LugBug. Not a good sign IMO. You never know though.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





verde57 said:


> I think you need to clean it again. You just stirred the dust on those contacts.


 
  Thanks, but its been fine for the last few months. It was recapped when I bought it and when you look inside its all nice and clean? Panasonic caps n all. It wasn't a full recap though.. It just seems strange that one day its fine then the next day I can here it degrading. Surely oxidisation wouldn't occur that quickly? The guy I bought it from did the recap and he always cleans switches, pots before he sells. He's one of the trusted sellers on the bay. My guess is that its a capacitor going, but I'm no expert. 
   
  You've given me hope though I will give it another clean.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Sorry LugBug. Not a good sign IMO. You never know though.


 
  Thanks bud. She was my first..


----------



## MattTCG

First loves are always the sweetest.


----------



## moodyrn

verde57 said:


> I think you need to clean it again. You just stirred the dust on those contacts.




Dirty contacts wouldn't result in distortion . There would be static and drop outs but not distortion. That sounds like a bad cap or loose solder joint.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> First loves are always the sweetest.


 
  And sweet she was my friend. I'm filling up again...
   
  And what made it worse was, when I told my wife about what had happened during the night she said - 'thank screw* for that, does it mean I can have a normal looking bedroom again?' Tuh..


----------



## Silent One

I'd also check the voltage out of the wall, as well as try a different outlet.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Dirty contacts wouldn't result in distortion . There would be static and drop outs but not distortion. That sounds like a bad cap or loose solder joint.


 
  Yeah It just sounds bad. Like really bad. dull and mashed up. It sounds fine as soon as its switched on, but then slowly gets worse and worse. 
   
  Thanks, I knew it couldn't be dirt. Not after I'd given it such a thorough spray yesterday.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I'd also check the voltage out of the wall, as well as try a different outlet.


 
  I did mate, I had it plugged into a mains filter and when I replaced it (sniff) with my stand in amp, that one is fine. 
   
  I will try an outlet downstairs as well when I give it one last look inside. 
   
  It's not all bad though folks. I have another 5 amps in the building  But just goes to show, these old guys don't last forever. 
   
  Question: When you guys clean with deoxit, do you spray everywhere? Or just the pots and switches? I've always thought that its a lubricant spray and may not be good to spray all the parts inside?


----------



## MattTCG

I am always careful to spray only the pots. Don't know why though...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I am always careful to spray only the pots. Don't know why though...


 
  Yeah I'm the same. I use the straw to try and spray only inside the pots. I'm just thinking, because it contains anti oxide stuff it may be good to spray all contacts perhaps? Dunno.
   
  Any more thoughts on the Pioneer v's the Sansui you've got going on at the mo? Is there a winner or are you defo keeping both.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah I'm the same. I use the straw to try and spray only inside the pots. I'm just thinking, because it contains anti oxide stuff it may be good to spray all contacts perhaps? Dunno.
> 
> Any more thoughts on the Pioneer v's the Sansui you've got going on at the mo? Is there a winner or are you defo keeping both.


 

 Got a local guru that can work on it for you?  Maybe put it in ICU and do a transfusion?


----------



## Silent One

Vintage integrated receivers... here's where the bargains pay off in multi-amp ownership. Smoke one.... _Next! _


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Got a local guru that can work on it for you?  Maybe put it in ICU and do a transfusion?


 
  I appreciate that mate, but I'm in the uk! At the end of the day, it cost me £100 ($150 approx) and its only a 550. Its a lower end Pioneer. I am very fond of it, but in all seriousness I'm just gonna look forward to picking up another one   Pioneers are always popping up on the bay here, I'll get something similar soon. 
   
  Thanks for your help on this guys, this is such a great thread.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> anyone know how the pioneer sx-1010 compares to sx-780 and sansui 7070 as far as sound signature?


 

 anyone? i have the sx-780 right now. gonna check out the sansui 7070 tomorrow, but someone put up a sx-1010 within a hour of me. only a $60 difference in price between them. help will be appreciated. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> anyone? i have the sx-780 right now. gonna check out the sansui 7070 tomorrow, but someone put up a sx-1010 within a hour of me. only a $60 difference in price between them. help will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Wish I could help mate! All I can tell you is, Pioneer and Sansui were the top guys of the 70's. Sansui is more tubey.... Best I can do soz. 
   
  Someone help this guy


----------



## palmfish

All this talk lately compelled me to break out an old friend from the back of my office...
   

   
  She's a little thick and warm sounding with headphones (just as I remembered), but she is pretty. I'm going to keep her out and play with her until my Crack is finished.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> anyone? i have the sx-780 right now. gonna check out the sansui 7070 tomorrow, but someone put up a sx-1010 within a hour of me. only a $60 difference in price between them. help will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had Pioneer SX-1010, SX-1050, SX-450, SA-6800, Sansui 9090. So my experience is based on those models, not exactly as yours.
  Lot of people think SX-1010 is best sounding pioneer receiver, which I almost agree since I haven't listen to SX-1980.
  SX-1010 is warmer than later models, almost same as Sansui 9090, but Sansui seems has tiny bit material feel (you can feel more stuff, maybe a little warmer with more punchy bass ). I don't know how to describe that, you have to image it. SX-780 is more transparent and has bigger sound-stage. SX-1010 also has tiny bigger sound-stage than Sansui. If you have reveal phones or speakers, you'd better pursue SX-1010 or 7070. BTW, I never mess with EQ.
  Based on the price difference, I will go for sx-1010 if you decide warmer side. Hope this help!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I had Pioneer SX-1010, SX-1050, SX-450, SA-6800, Sansui 9090. So my experience is based on those models, not exactly as yours.
> Lot of people think SX-1010 is best sounding pioneer receiver, which I almost agree since I haven't listen to SX-1980.
> SX-1010 is warmer than later models, almost same as Sansui 9090, but Sansui seems has tiny bit material feel (you can feel more stuff, maybe a little warmer with more punchy bass ). I don't know how to describe that, you have to image it. SX-780 is more transparent and has bigger sound-stage. SX-1010 also has tiny bigger sound-stage than Sansui. If you have reveal phones or speakers, you'd better pursue SX-1010 or 7070. BTW, I never mess with EQ.
> Based on the price difference, I will go for sx-1010 if you decide warmer side. Hope this help!



  
 I think every one of these receivers is going to interact differently to different headphones (and speakers) so it's impossible to say with certainty that one sounds "warmer." "punchier," "bigger," etc. than another.
  
 Also, no EQ?!?! Heck, the simple and effective tone controls are THE #1 reason in favor of using these vintage beauties in my opinion!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> All this talk lately compelled me to break out an old friend from the back of my office...
> 
> 
> 
> She's a little thick and warm sounding with headphones (just as I remembered), but she is pretty. I'm going to keep her out and play with her until my Crack is finished.


 
  SA-9800 is a fine late 70s amp with a great specs, a versatile phono section and, most importantly, Fluorscan meters! Enjoy...


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> SA-9800 is a fine late 70s amp with a great specs, a versatile phono section and, most importantly, Fluorscan meters! Enjoy...




Mine's a "lowly" 5800. I was still in high school when I bought it and the 9800 was well out of my budget.

But yes, it's all about the flouroscan meters!


----------



## penmarker

Ah, I've missed out on Sansui AU-607F. Wasn't in the best financial situation, and they got sold off. Worse was there were two on sale at the time. Can't find one anymore locally


----------



## kstuart

The Marantz 1040 arrived today and I've been comparing it to the Bellari hybrid, using the Universal Mad Dogs.  (My Bellari HA-540 is a hybrid between 1961 and 2008 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
   
  The Marantz has better "slam" and is better with any rock or other multi-miked music with no real soundstage to speak of.  It is especially good with any music recorded in the same mid-70s period that the amp was made. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   If you turn up the bass slider and down the treble slider on the Marantz while playing Straight Outta Compton, the sound in your headphones is exactly like a cruising car going by on the street that has a trunk full of woofers. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Bellari has better imaging and better detail.   The 1961 Siemens Munchen 12AX7 is especially good for those qualities, even slightly better than Telefunken.
   
  By the way, the Universal Mad Dogs sound great with both.   Vocals are excellent, clearly better than the HE-400.   I can't wait to hear his "Alpha Dogs" when they are released in September...


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats on the 1040!! I love the look.Seems like it sounds as good as it looks. 
   
  I'm finding a similar trait with the sx-1280. The response that I get from the tone control (bass and treble) is just wonderful. I don't ever feel that it mucks up the sound. It does just what I need it. The sx-1280 gets much love from me.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I had Pioneer SX-1010, SX-1050, SX-450, SA-6800, Sansui 9090. So my experience is based on those models, not exactly as yours.
> Lot of people think SX-1010 is best sounding pioneer receiver, which I almost agree since I haven't listen to SX-1980.
> SX-1010 is warmer than later models, almost same as Sansui 9090, but Sansui seems has tiny bit material feel (you can feel more stuff, maybe a little warmer with more punchy bass ). I don't know how to describe that, you have to image it. SX-780 is more transparent and has bigger sound-stage. SX-1010 also has tiny bigger sound-stage than Sansui. If you have reveal phones or speakers, you'd better pursue SX-1010 or 7070. BTW, I never mess with EQ.
> Based on the price difference, I will go for sx-1010 if you decide warmer side. Hope this help!


 

 thanks. will be using with hifiman he-5le and fidelio x1 (until i get those new alpha dogs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). i dont do any EQ'ing.


----------



## 5aces

lugbug1 said:


> And what made it worse was, when I told my wife about what had happened during the night she said - 'thank screw* for that, does it mean I can have a normal looking bedroom again?'




 

When you reach stage five, take note.
P.S. I gave you a Technics SA 1000 to play with in the bedroom.


----------



## MattTCG

rolf...


----------



## ssrock64

Opinions on the SX-750? The same guy who sold me the Dynaco stack has one up for sale, and it's in much better condition than the delayed explosion I bought from him before. It also came with a matching piece of Pioneer gear sitting on top of it, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Should I jump at $160 for the SX-750 and whatever was sitting on it?


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Opinions on the SX-750? The same guy who sold me the Dynaco stack has one up for sale, and it's in much better condition than the delayed explosion I bought from him before. It also came with a matching piece of Pioneer gear sitting on top of it, but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. Should I jump at $160 for the SX-750 and whatever was sitting on it?


 
  couldn't hurt  ... as long as it's working, that is


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> All this talk lately compelled me to break out an old friend from the back of my office...


 
  That is a lovely example of that Pioneer, looks in great shape. Think I might try a Pioneer integrate next. 
  Quote: 





kstuart said:


>


 
  Classic!! 
  Quote: 





5aces said:


> When you reach stage five, take note.
> P.S. I gave you a Technics SA 1000 to play with in the bedroom.


----------



## LugBug1

Apologies to those who are sick of the sight of my set up 
   
  But I've spent this morning taking my Marantz apart and cleaning. So just like when you've polished your car and want to show it off. Thats what I'm doing now.
   
  The Marantz stack.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Apologies to those who are sick of the sight of my set up
> 
> But I've spent this morning taking my Marantz apart and cleaning. So just like when you've polished your car and want to show it off. Thats what I'm doing now.
> 
> The Marantz stack.


 

 Buddy, we never get sick of looking at this stuff...................at least I don't.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Buddy, we never get sick of looking at this stuff...................at least I don't.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Buddy, we never get sick of looking at this stuff...................at least I don't.


 
  Oregonian is right!


----------



## Steve Eddy

oregonian said:


> Buddy, we never get sick of looking at this stuff...................at least I don't.




It sucks!

Seeing those fantastic Marantz flywheel tuning dials and not being able to play with them is just too much to bear! 

se


----------



## MattTCG

Well, I was quite sad to see it go...but the 9090db rolled out of here about an hour ago. In the end the sx-1280 took my he-4 to a whole new level. So he-4 (jergpad mod), sx1280 is just sublime. It's the only setup that I've heard that can touch the lcd2 for bass texture and slam without being loose and bloomy.


----------



## kstuart

If I was going to buy audio gear to put in the living room and never use, it would definitely be Marantz !
   
  So, put me in the "never get tired of looking at" camp.


----------



## MattTCG

I think that this may be true love. 


The wicked power of the 1280 is giving a speaker tap level of power on the he-4. It's truly impressive.

I apologize for the redundant gushing.


----------



## jasonb

Does cleaning pots (potentiometers) make for better sound? I'd imagine so, correct?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ It should only clean up the noise when adjusting the pot. AFAIK


----------



## kstuart

Update - The Marantz 1040 definitely has a beautiful sound, but sadly it has zero soundstage depth.  It's great for rock and other multi-miked music, but classical and other "audiophile" recordings need a soundstage.
   
  The Sansui AU-415 arrives Monday, so we will see....


----------



## jasonb

I've been dealing with a bit of random scratchiness which was coming from the function knob. It would randomly sound scratchy in one or both channels, a slight touch to the function knob and it would go away for a while, but then come back again eventually. So this evening I removed the knob and sprayed some cleaner in there and rotated the knob back and forth a few times and it seems to have cleared it up. Shortly after, I decided to do the same thing to the rest of the knobs and pots and I swear everything just sounds better overall. Seems like bass impact is better, everything just sounds clearer and even more detailed, and bigger. Like a veil was lifted off of the whole sound. It could be placebo I guess, but my ears are telling me that everything sounds cleaner. 
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ It should only clean up the noise when adjusting the pot. AFAIK


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> I think that this may be true love.
> 
> 
> The wicked power of the 1280 is giving a speaker tap level of power on the he-4. It's truly impressive.
> ...




No doubt about it, the SX-1280 is a truly awesome receiver. Congrats. Not at all surprised you're digging it


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks Rob. I am almost finished with the Large Advents. Just a little more refinishing and the refoam will be finished by Wednesday. Can't wait to hear them with the sx-1280.


----------



## jasonb

Listening to this:

  on the SX-750 and my self modded T50rp and it sound spectacular. I'm in audio heaven.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Update - The Marantz 1040 definitely has a beautiful sound, but sadly it has zero soundstage depth.  It's great for rock and other multi-miked music, but classical and other "audiophile" recordings need a soundstage.
> 
> The Sansui AU-415 arrives Monday, so we will see....


 
  You just described the marantz house sound in one sentence. They do have a beautiful tone, but not much sound stage depth to speak of. The sound stage width is pretty good though. But I'll take depth over width any day if I could only have one. I
   
  'm giving a 2325 another try. I have one that's been fully restored internally coming. Given how awesome both my restored 500c and 9090db sounds, I'm hoping this 2325 sounds much better than the last one I had though it was pretty minty.
   
  I'm hoping the restored one have much better transparency, highs that's not rolled off, and much better depth. But darnit, I keep spending my 907 restore budget on new toys.


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Buddy, we never get sick of looking at this stuff...................at least I don't.


 
  Agreed. No apologies needed. It's what the thread is all about.


----------



## joehalo

Could this really be true? A free 9090db????? 
http://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/3993354905.html


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> You just described the marantz house sound in one sentence. They do have a beautiful tone, but not much sound stage depth to speak of. The sound stage width is pretty good though. But I'll take depth over width any day if I could only have one. I
> 
> 'm giving a 2325 another try. I have one that's been fully restored internally coming. Given how awesome both my restored 500c and 9090db sounds, I'm hoping this 2325 sounds much better than the last one I had though it was pretty minty.
> 
> I'm hoping the restored one have much better transparency, highs that's not rolled off, and much better depth. But darnit, I keep spending my 907 restore budget on new toys.


 
  Yeah agreed. My 2220 is just like that, warm and nice tone but very 2 dimensional. Not much depth. My 2216b is much better with dynamics and depth and has pretty good treble. But not quite as good as my Sanui's. The Sansui's have a tube like quality that gives a more holographic image.


----------



## shipsupt

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Could this really be true? A free 9090db?????
> http://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/3993354905.html


 
   
  Absolutely.  Someone may not understand that this vintage gear is gaining value, or they can't be bothered with selling it off.  Someone will grab it up quick who knows better.


----------



## Oregonian

joehalo said:


> Could this really be true? A free 9090db?????
> http://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/3993354905.html




Best find ever.....go get it! Road trip time!


----------



## kenshinhimura

i bought the sansui 7070 to go with my pioneer sx-780. looks like i have a growing collection now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 might check out some sansui sp-2500 speakers for sale in my area next.


----------



## jasonb

Is it me or is the soundstage/imaging on the SX-750 really a strong point? Soundstage sounds huge compared to the little E17 alone. Good live recordings are amazing here using the Pioneer with the T50rp..


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I've been dealing with a bit of random scratchiness which was coming from the function knob. It would randomly sound scratchy in one or both channels, a slight touch to the function knob and it would go away for a while, but then come back again eventually. So this evening I removed the knob and sprayed some cleaner in there and rotated the knob back and forth a few times and it seems to have cleared it up. Shortly after, I decided to do the same thing to the rest of the knobs and pots and I swear everything just sounds better overall. Seems like bass impact is better, everything just sounds clearer and even more detailed, and bigger. Like a veil was lifted off of the whole sound. It could be placebo I guess, but my ears are telling me that everything sounds cleaner.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Jason - if a control has dirt between the contacts, and that control is "live" (meaning that it has not been switched out by a "tone defeat" switch), then your audio is literally going through that piece of dirt.   The contacts has less conductivity, and more resistance.  It's electrically different, so it should sound different and is not a placebo.
   
  In the 80's, a "tone defeat" switch became popular for this reason, amongst others.


----------



## monoethylene

New headamp


----------



## LugBug1

^^ I like it like it like it!


----------



## monoethylene

Thanks 
   
  It sounds quite good..
   
  Nevertheless I also can take one of them


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> You just described the marantz house sound in one sentence. They do have a beautiful tone, but not much sound stage depth to speak of. The sound stage width is pretty good though. But I'll take depth over width any day if I could only have one. I


 
  You remind me of a question:
   
  Can someone describe how the Sherwood .... and Kenwood .... amps sound ?
   
  Is there anything about their sound that you particularly like... or dislike ?


----------



## jasonb

kstuart said:


> Jason - if a control has dirt between the contacts, and that control is "live" (meaning that it has not been switched out by a "tone defeat" switch), then your audio is literally going through that piece of dirt.   The contacts has less conductivity, and more resistance.  It's electrically different, so it should sound different and is not a placebo.
> 
> In the 80's, a "tone defeat" switch became popular for this reason, amongst others.




Alright, so I'm not crazy. I could tell right away, and the difference wasn't small. I had a feeling that the audio signal flowed right through the pots, but I'm not an electrical engineer, so I wasn't really sure. So I guess it might still be beneficial to actually buy some quality contact cleaner like deoxit and really give this thing a heavy duty cleaning. 

Thanks.


----------



## bce22

well what an Awesome day!  I picked up the Scott 299B and 370 tuner with a set of quad matched Mullard 12ax7 for $300.  The amp has its original telefunken tubes.  i also have the covers for both units.
   
  i think these are really stunning andare cosmetically very very good.  The amp has an issue in one channel (volume is low) that i hope my thorough deoxit treatment fixes.  None-the-less, both units are going in for service.
   
  i do have a couple of questions:
   
  1.  What are these inputs?  if i want to attach my turntable what input selector should i use?
   
  2:  The back panel is confusing to me.  How do i connect  my 8 ohm Cornwalls to this amp?  what rcas for phono?
   
  Thanks guys!
   
  Here are some pics.
   
  .


----------



## BmWr75

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> well what an Awesome day!  I picked up the Scott 299B and 370 tuner with a set of quad matched Mullard 12ax7 for $300.  The amp has its original telefunken tubes.  i also have the covers for both units.
> 
> i think these are really stunning andare cosmetically very very good.  The amp has an issue in one channel (volume is low) that i hope my thorough deoxit treatment fixes.  None-the-less, both units are going in for service.
> 
> ...


----------



## jmoore914

I know it isn't technically vintage but I picked up a Marantz SR 68 at a garage sale the other day. It was $30 and Marantz is supposed to be good so I figured why not.
  Does anybody here know if they are any good or if any parts inside are worth salvaging?


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





bmwr75 said:


>


 
  You did very well on this purchase!! Use the RIAA Ortho for the phone inputs. The black slider switch above this knob selects between Mag 1 and Mag 2 phono inputs on the back. Mag stands for magnetic, so you will need a moving magnet phono cartridge. Am certain you should be able to use the Mag 1 input. The Mag 2 Low and Mag 2 High are also for moving magent cartridges and must refer to the output level of the cartridge. Hook your speakers to the 0 and High speaker terminals. 0 = negative, High = positive speaker wire
  ----
   
  Thanks BmWr75!
   
  I have an LPGear AT95VL MM cartridge rated at 3.5mv output.  I bet the MAG low is the appropriate one.
   
  I really appreciate your help.


----------



## BmWr75

U R welcome.
   
  Try the Mag 1 and Mag 2 low and see which sounds best.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> well what an Awesome day!  I picked up the Scott 299B and 370 tuner with a set of quad matched Mullard 12ax7 for $300.  The amp has its original telefunken tubes.


 
  That sounds like at least $300 worth of tubes !
   
  You could easily pay more than $300 for 4 matched Mullard 12ax7's (assuming they are not 21st Century reissues) and Telefunken tubes are equally valuable.
   
  PS  I love pictures of tube gear out in the natural world.


----------



## Anavel0

Bad news 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So, I was testing out the Pioneer SX-850 to see if I would keep it and restore it or sell it and move up. I wasn't super sure on the sound signature. It was nice but I wasn't sure if I was in love with it or not. It was kind of forgettable honestly, not much of a sound stage. Pretty nice treble detail though. Well during my last listening session it decided for me when thick white smoke started rolling out the back of it and then there was a really loud sound through my headphones. 
   
  I turned off the SX-850 and inspected the insides. I don't see any signs of smoke or fire inside but suffice it to say I won't be turning it back on any time soon. I plugged my HD580s back in to my Little Dot MK III and they appear to have been blown when the receiver went. Volume sounds like it's barely there and if you turn it up at all you get mad pops and cracks. Not horribly upset because the headband was already broke and I have been looking for new headphones for a while now.
   
  If anyone is interested in it for parts (knobs, switch caps, etc.) let me know. I'll most likely just sell the remaining hardware pieces or whole unit for a DIY project.


----------



## sling5s

What is the warmest Pioneer?  I have SX-737 (musical and neutral)  and had SX-850 (thin and bright).


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> Bad new


 




   
  Really sorry to hear that.


----------



## MattTCG

anavel0 said:


> Bad new
> 
> So, I was testing out the Pioneer SX-850 to see if I would keep it and restore it or sell it and move up. I wasn't super sure on the sound signature. It was nice but I wasn't sure if I was in love with it or not. It was kind of forgettable honestly, not much of a sound stage. Pretty nice treble detail though. Well during my last listening session it decided for me when thick white smoke started rolling out the back of it and then there was a really loud sound through my headphones.
> 
> ...



Yikes! That's too bad and sorry to hear it.


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





anavel0 said:


> Bad news
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Bad news on a few counts. Hopefully somebody on here or on AK will want to take the SX-850 in for you and restore it back to health. As for the HD580, I guess you just made it a little rarer.
   
  Hey, maybe tomorrow you'll stumble across a mint-condition SX-1280 for $5 at an estate sale, with a new-in-box pair of HD580s included! I wish...


----------



## MattTCG

I ended up paying $450 for my sx-1280, the most I've paid for any vintage gear yet. I did work a free pair of large Advent's into the deal though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The Advent's cost me $60 to be refoamed but they now sound wonderful. I spent the weekend refinishing the cabinet which now look mint. All in all a good deal.


----------



## Silent One

Ur up to some good stuff, MattTCG!


----------



## gikigill

Picking up a Sansui 717 or a QR quadrophonic, both fully restored.


----------



## gikigill

In the meanhwile


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I ended up paying $450 for my sx-1280, the most I've paid for any vintage gear yet. I did work a free pair of large Advent's into the deal though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Advents are awesome!  I will never part with mine.


----------



## Skylab

$450 for a SX-1280 in good condition is a very good deal. These days they mostly go for much, much more.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> In the meanhwile


 
  That Sherwood receiver sure brings back memories...


----------



## MattTCG

Rob...I had a question for you and now...I can't remember it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I guess they call this a senior moment. 
   
  Wait...I've got it. The 1280 even with the -20 db engaged still gives me hiss with the hd650. But orthos are dead silent. Is this normal? My Sansui was dead silent with the hd650 and orthos.


----------



## jasonb

DeoxIT it to the rescue:

   
  When I got my SX-750, the function knob was dirty, and would randomly make the audio scratchy and/or drop a channel until I fidgeted with the knob and the sound would come back. The only contact cleaner I had was just a generic brand but I was brave and used it anyway. The scratchiness on the function knob went away, so the next step was to clean the rest of the pots and switches as well, and I once again was brave and used the generic contact cleaner. It did definitely improve the sound overall. 
   
  Moving on to today, I stopped at a local Radio Shack and grabbed the DeoxIT twin pack shown in the picture above and once again cleaned the pots and switches and inputs and outputs with it. I let it sit for about 20 minutes to evaporate and dry and I am giving it a listen now. I should have known right from the start that this thing needed a cleaning since the unit sounded very mid heavy with weak treble and bass. I had been bumping up the bass and treble to compensate. I definitely should have known something was up when I had to give the Q701 a treble boost. It still sounded better overall than the E17 alone, but I was honestly expecting more, especially in terms of bass....
   
  This thing is whole different animal after giving it a little cleaning. Better/more bass, cleaner mids and better/more treble. Much, much better detail everywhere, bigger soundstage both in depth and width. It's very slightly louder at the same spot on the volume knob. At $40 for the unit itself and $16 for the pack of DexoIT, this thing is ridiculous and definitely a steal. So I'd advise anybody that buys an old vintage piece to give it a DeoxIT treatment. It CAN make a huge difference.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Rob...I had a question for you and now...I can't remember it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  De-Oxit +1!
   
  I've never had any luck using the -20db to reduce hiss or make my Pioneer SA-7100 more compatible with my headphones (I only use Grados). IME headphones sounds worse with the muting switch engaged.
  Having said that my 1974 amp is dead quiet with Grados, even through the phono input.


----------



## jasonb

My SX-750 is dead silent with both my T50rp and my Q701. Not sure why a hiss would be audible on an HD650.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Rob...I had a question for you and now...I can't remember it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just a perspective on my Spec1/2 combo - there is ZERO hiss on any of my headphones.


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> Rob...I had a question for you and now...I can't remember it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm surprised you get hiss with the -20db muting engaged. Every headphone has dead quiet background with that on my 1980. 

Does the muting switch actually lower the volume level as it should? And do you hear hiss with speakers?


----------



## LugBug1

Just my 2 cents.. 
   
  The only two vintage amps of mine that have a completely black backround are my Marantz 2216b and Technics su V3. This is with the 300ohm HD800's. There is a very slight hiss on my Sansui 551 if I listen really hard, my belated SX 550 was the same.  With the K701's they don't show hiss on any of them. But the AKG's are as power hungry as planars. You can try cleaning the contacts really thoroughly, but I honestly think its an impedance thing. Or a Sennheiser thing.. Probably both.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I'm surprised you get hiss with the -20db muting engaged. Every headphone has dead quiet background with that on my 1980.
> 
> Does the muting switch actually lower the volume level as it should? And do you hear hiss with speakers?


 
   
  Thanks everyone. Here are my observations. The power is just way too much with the -20 switch unengaged. I can still hear hiss and possibly some noise with that -20 on. Oddly turning the tone switch on increased the hiss. Not sure why. 
   
  With my ortho hp, the background is completely black. I guess it may be time for a complete deoxit treatment?? I assumed that because the orthos had a black background that all was fine.


----------



## moodyrn

My 1280 hissed a little with my w3000, but not only are they highly sensitive,  but they also have a low impedance as well. The 650 are a bit sensitive as well, but given their high impedance, I'm a bit surprise they still hiss. But the 1280 isn't the most quiet vintage monster I've owned either. In fact, it's only the second vintage monster I've come across that ever hissed with any of my cans. My 2330b didn't even have a -20db button, but I was able to get a completely black background with my AT's and just a faint amount of hiss that was barely audible with my jh13. I get a completely black background with my AT's on my 9090db with the -20 button engaged. And my 907 has the blackest background of any amp i've ever encountered. A get a blacker background with my jh13 than I did with just about any portable amp I've owned. The fact my sx1280 couldn't do this was a little disappointing. 
   
  But on the other hand, both pioneer totl receivers I've owned have by far the most powerful headphone out I've encountered. Both could easily drive my he-6, even with the -20db button engaged, out of the headphone out. I figure the 1980 probably have a superior preamp vs all other other pioneers. The preamp out of my 907 is the best I've encountered. It's amazing that no matter what it's powering, the volume knob stays the same. And that's around 10:00 whether it's he-6 from speaker taps, super efficient klipsch, and yes it's even around 9:00-10:00 with my jh13s. Very few amps from any era can do this.


----------



## jasonb

Have you ever given any of your vintage gear a DeoxIT treatment? If not, THEN DO IT. You gotta realize these things are 30+ years old. I just had no idea how much a good cleaning would improve the sound. It's worth a shot anyway, even if yours happens to be pretty clean already, the DeoxIT can't hurt. I didn't even take mine apart to do it. I just removed the knobs, shot the stuff in there, turned them a dozen times or so back and forth, shot a second shot in each, turned them back and forth again, let it set for a few minutes, turned them back and forth again for good measure. Then I treated with the DeoxIT Gold. I also cleaned and treated the aux input jacks and the headphone jack. The sound difference is a great one. I had been using the tone knobs to add bass and treble, now I am using much less of them, that right there tells me that the DeoxIT treatment did something. 
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Thanks everyone. Here are my observations. The power is just way too much with the -20 switch unengaged. I can still hear hiss and possibly some noise with that -20 on. Oddly turning the tone switch on increased the hiss. Not sure why.
> 
> With my ortho hp, the background is completely black. I guess it may be time for a complete deoxit treatment?? I assumed that because the orthos had a black background that all was fine.


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I ended up paying $450 for my sx-1280, the most I've paid for any vintage gear yet. I did work a free pair of large Advent's into the deal though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  seems like a good price 
  I wish I could find deals like that here in Canadia. I paid a touch over 1000 for my Pioneer SX-5590 (which should be here in a couple days!)


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I ended up paying $450 for my sx-1280, the most I've paid for any vintage gear yet. I did work a free pair of large Advent's into the deal though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  seems like a good price 
  I wish I could find deals like that here in Canadia. I paid a touch over 1000 for my Pioneer SX-5590 (which should be here in a couple days!)


----------



## MattTCG

I gave my 9090db a thorough treatment with deoxit. But the Pioneer just didn't seem to need it. I guess I'll work it over today. Worst case, I can buy a separate amp, ie Asgard2, to drive the hd650 and use the A2 as a preamp also. It would be nice to have the versatility of the a2 and plus I do need a backup amp.


----------



## jasonb

Not sure how much better the 1280 is, and not to brag, but i only paid $40 for my 750.


----------



## Skylab

The reason turning the tone switch on increased the noise is that the tone controls are on their own boards and do have amplification transistors that the signal will pass through, and any noisy parts on that board will just add to the noise. 

My guess is that with very efficient headphones, you are hearing the age of some of the parts. But a thorough deoxit of the controls might well be all that's needed to decrease the hiss to negligible. 

And of course a 1280 is well worth a full recap/restore


----------



## jasonb

I've been listening to my SX-750 all day so far since the DeoxIT treatment. First I started with the Q701, but have since switched to the modded T50rp since my air conditioner is running now and the T50rp isolates a whole lot better. I wish I had gotten into vintage gear a long time ago. This thing simply blows the puny little Fiio E17 out of the water. I'm still using the E17 as a USB DAC though using Fiio's little line out dock. It all makes me wonder how much of a difference a better DAC would make. The 3.5mm to rca cable I'm using between the two also isn't all that great either, but I doubt using an expensive interconnect will really make the E17 sound any better. I'm already picking out tons of little details I never noticed in my music before, but I really think a better DAC is the next logical step. Anybody disagree?


----------



## MattTCG

Not me.^^
   
  The bifrost with uber upgrade and the 1280 is blowing my mind. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just spanks the lyr.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





> I really think a better DAC is the next logical step. Anybody disagree?


 
  Actually, I think a good DAC is more important than a good amplifier or good headphones/speakers.
   
  This is because the best amplifier and speakers can only perfect reproduce what they are fed, they cannot improve something which is poor quality.
   
  Mike Ting, founder of Headfonia web site states:
  Quote: 





> Rule #6: Garbage in = Garbage Out
> 
> Garbage in = Garbage out (GIGO) is a popular phrase used to emphasize the importance of a good source.


 
  In this context, he refers to "source" as player and DAC.
   
  From my personal experience, I can recommend the HRT DACs, but I have reason to believe that the Schiit DACs are similar quality (and they have a nice 14-day return policy, no questions asked).
   
  For US$100-$150, you can get something which is clearly better than built-in DACs, and for about $300, you can get something a level better than that.


----------



## Skylab

My basement system has a Schiit Bifrost paired with a SX-1980 and that's an excellent combo, although I've been thinking of going to a Gungir.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Worst case, I can buy a separate amp, ie Asgard2, to drive the hd650 and use the A2 as a preamp also. It would be nice to have the versatility of the a2 and plus I do need a backup amp.


 
  You need to update your signature, which has included "Asgard2" for a long time.


----------



## MattTCG

The pots seem like a real pain to get to on the 1280. Anybody with suggestions?


----------



## moodyrn

A good dac with be a very worthwhile upgrade. In the grand scheme of things, as far as components, they all go hand in hand. A world class dac with a crappy amp is still going to sound crappy. It doesn't matter how great the dac is, a driver that isn't properly driven will not yield great results. So it's important that every component in the chain is up to snuff. And all of my amps whether vintage or not have always improved a great deal with a dac upgrade, so I wouldn't skimp out on getting a quality dac.


----------



## moodyrn

Take off the bottom cover, there you will have access to the pots. Some of them will be a little hard to reach, but with the included extension still very reachable.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks Moody!! Now, who want to volunteer to come over and help me lift it? Not sure I can lift 70 pound. And I hate it when I have to ask Mrs. TCG for help (so does she).


----------



## jasonb

I don't want to get off topic, but what is a good USB DAC only(no amp) for about $200-$300? I don't need anything too crazy, just better than the E17 at a good price.


----------



## moodyrn

Hrt music streamer, centrance dac port, dragon fly to name a few. Dacs have come a long way the past few years. 300.00 can buy you what 1000.00 use to buy you five years ago.


----------



## LugBug1

To be fair there's not many 'bad' dacs these days, as long as you aren't using your computer soundcard or ipod direct. The very cheap original Vdac is still my recommendation for anyone's first. Also, most of these vintage amps, particularly the older ones (late 60's early 70's) colour the sound to a degree that if you were to buy an uber TOTL dac then you would be wasting your money imo. I love what these old amps do to the music, they present it in such an organic -musical way. And so as long as you have a half decent dac then it should pair well with most of these old amps. 
   
  of course the SX 1980 and the like may be able to show what a TOTL dac can do... But unfortunately I don't have one. 
   
   
  (there must be something in the air at the moment... I had just finished changing a few amps round (as I tend to do... All of the time ) and while I was pushing my cabinet back I heard a big bang. I also seen a flash. Smelled smoke too. The trip switch had been flipped and so I went to flip it back on. I moved my cabinet forward and looked for the damage... I churlishly bent down and followed my nose to were the burning smell was coming from. It was coming from the adapter that is connected to my Marantz 2220. The marantz hadn't been switched on, but the plug must have been forced out a little, so when I pushed the cabinet back it must have caused a short? Not sure how... but anyway's.. Phewwwee..! That was a close one. All my amps still working and the only damage was to my underpants 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



.)


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I don't want to get off topic, but what is a good USB DAC only(no amp) for about $200-$300? I don't need anything too crazy, just better than the E17 at a good price.


 
   
  I've owned lots of dac. The best in that price range is the odac with RCA outs by jds labs. Audio Poutine also makes one...he ships out of Canada though. The odac is a very good usb dac IMO.


----------



## jasonb

Which HRT music streamer do you recommend? I'm seeing quite a few different models. I would want something transparent, nothing with extra bass, or nothing that sounds cold. Just transparent and accurate. 99% of my music is either 256k AAC from iTunes or 320k MP3 from MOG. I have nothing in any higher bitrate, so a DAC that works with formats higher than 96/24 is useless to me.
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Hrt music streamer, centrance dac port, dragon fly to name a few. Dacs have come a long way the past few years. 300.00 can buy you what 1000.00 use to buy you five years ago.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> To be fair there's not many 'bad' dacs these days, as long as you aren't using your computer soundcard or ipod direct. The very cheap original Vdac is still my recommendation for anyone's first. Also, most of these vintage amps, particularly the older ones (late 60's early 70's) colour the sound to a degree that if you were to buy an uber TOTL dac then you would be wasting your money imo. I love what these old amps do to the music, they present it in such an organic -musical way. And so as long as you have a half decent dac then it should pair well with most of these old amps.
> 
> of course the SX 1980 and the like may be able to show what a TOTL dac can do... But unfortunately I don't have one.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Whew!! Glad that there was no real trouble. I bought a used high end power cable once. Went to plug it in and BANG...loud pop. The previous owner had covered up some damage to the cable with heat shrink tubing. I guess that it arced. I was plugging it into my new lyr which was brand new. Scared the bejezzus out of me.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Whew!! Glad that there was no real trouble. I bought a used high end power cable once. Went to plug it in and BANG...loud pop. The previous owner had covered up some damage to the cable with heat shrink tubing. I guess that it arced. I was plugging it into my new lyr which was brand new. Scared the bejezzus out of me.


 
  Thanks bud. I got quite a fright, it was such a loud bang! Makes you wonder what it would be like to get a full electric shock... You hear about people flying across the room n stuff


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Also, most of these vintage amps, particularly the older ones (late 60's early 70's) colour the sound to a degree that if you were to buy an uber TOTL dac then you would be wasting your money imo.


 
  I have to disagree with that statement. Vintage gear is just like modern gear in a sense the higher up the chain you get, the better they scale with other equipement. You would never spend a grand on a dac for a budget modern amp, just like you wouldn't do that for a lower end vintage model. But I have a few dacs ranging from 500.00 to 1000.00 and all of my totl vintage amps improved a great deal going from my 500.00 dac to my 1000.00 one. There's even a noticeable difference between my 800.00 dac and my 1000.00 dac.  As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just in another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.
   
  There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.
  Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Which HRT music streamer do you recommend? I'm seeing quite a few different models. I would want something transparent, nothing with extra bass, or nothing that sounds cold. Just transparent and accurate. 99% of my music is either 256k AAC from iTunes or 320k MP3 from MOG. I have nothing in any higher bitrate, so a DAC that works with formats higher than 96/24 is useless to me.


 
  They all have received good reviews. The musical fidelity vdac's are also a good recommendation. In that price class, I've personally owned the music streamer II+, vdac II and they both were good. I also owned a music streamer pro which is a bit better than the II+ to my ears. Although the retail is at 500.00, you can get them cheaper than the II+ now since it's been replaced making it an excellent value, but it can be very fussy with usb cables because of the power requirements. So for that reason I would recommend the II+ for that reason. 
   
  But in this day and time, given the advances in dac design and chips, most all of them in that price range are going to be good. Even the odac at much less than 200.00 have many, many fans.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I have to disagree with that statement. Vintage gear is just like modern gear in a sense the higher up the chain you get, the better they scale with other equipement. You would never spend a grand on a dac for a budget modern amp, just like you wouldn't do that for a lower end vintage model. But I have a few dacs ranging from 500.00 to 1000.00 and all of my totl vintage amps improved a great deal going from my 500.00 dac to my 1000.00 one. There's even a noticeable difference between my 800.00 dac and my 1000.00 dac.  As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.
> 
> There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.
> They all have received good reviews. The musical fidelity vdac's are also a good recommendation. In that price class, I've personally owned the music streamer II+, vdac II and they both were good. I also owned a music streamer pro which is a bit better than the II+ to my ears. Although the retail is at 500.00, you can get them cheaper than the II+ now since it's been replaced making it an excellent value, but it can be very fussy with usb cables because of the power requirements. So for that reason I would recommend the II+ for that reason.
> ...


 
  So the Odac should sound noticeably better than the E17?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I have to disagree with that statement. Vintage gear is just like modern gear in a sense the higher up the chain you get, the better they scale with other equipement. You would never spend a grand on a dac for a budget modern amp, just like you wouldn't do that for a lower end vintage model. But I have a few dacs ranging from 500.00 to 1000.00 and all of my totl vintage amps improved a great deal going from my 500.00 dac to my 1000.00 one. There's even a noticeable difference between my 800.00 dac and my 1000.00 dac.  As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just another league as* I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.*
> 
> There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.
> They all have received good reviews. The musical fidelity vdac's are also a good recommendation. In that price class, I've personally owned the music streamer II+, vdac II and they both were good. I also owned a music streamer pro which is a bit better than the II+ to my ears. Although the retail is at 500.00, you can get them cheaper than the II+ now since it's been replaced making it an excellent value, but it can be very fussy with usb cables because of the power requirements. So for that reason I would recommend the II+ for that reason.
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I'll certainly agree here. The gap between the sx650 and sx1280 is really hard for me to believe. Yet I hear it every time I turn on the 1280.


----------



## LugBug1

I would also recommend the Beresford dacs too, very good value for money. Particularly with these high powered vintage amps because they have good pre-outs so you can control the dac volume to your amp. Helpful for those who want a little more freedom on the volume pot. 
   
  I currently use the Dacmagic and Rdac. And really have no need to pay a lot more for anything better. I also have a 'vintage' Arcam Black Box which has a lovely tone but is a little too warm to pair with my current vintage amps.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> So the Odac should sound noticeably better than the E17?


 
  I can't really say, since I've heard neither. But just it does have many fans. But some of the other other dacs I mention, I've owned personally and can fully recommend any of those in your price range.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> So the Odac should sound noticeably better than the E17?


 
  If you are looking in that price range, there is a high turnover in Music Streamer 2 (without the plus), for $100-$120.  It has asynchronous USB (which IIRC the odac does not have).   The HRT and Schiit gear both have analog sections designed by guys who have done $10,000 amps.  The Schiit Modi should be comparable to the MS2, is $100 and again, has a 14-day trial (the trial only costs you the shipping).


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just in another league as I'm sure Matt can attest to owning both the 650 and 1280.*
> 
> *There are many budget gems out there that can keep up with many mid to upper mid tier modern headphone amps. But when you step up to the high end range of vintage gear the game changes. With most of the totl vintage gear I've owned, the transparency, refinement, and extension are right there with the best modern amps.*


 
  I'd really like some more input from people on this point, and perhaps more specifics.
   
  You mention the 650 vs 1280, yet the 1280 is not "top of the line".
   
  How can we tell when the difference between two models is just power rating (which above a certain level only affects speakers or HE-6), and when the difference is actually other things that affect sound quality ?


----------



## 5aces

skylab said:


> $450 for a SX-1280 in good condition is a very good deal. These days they mostly go for much, much more.




I let this one pass up here, somebody got the deal of the year for sure an *SX 1980*:





nailbunny7 said:


> I wish I could find deals like that here in Canadia. I paid a touch over 1000 for my Pioneer SX-5590


----------



## moodyrn

I've already covered this in a previous post a few pages back. the 1280 is the newer version of the 1250 which was totl. And the 1980 is just something different altogether that's in a class of it's own. Very few receivers were ever produced in this class with marantz 2500/2600, sansui g22000/33000 being among them. But as I said previously, the difference between the two is far, far greater than the power they produced. All one have to do is to take a look under the hood to see exactly what I'm talking about. Better yet, here's some pics and you can see for your self.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Better transformers, much better power supplies, separate amp boards, better shielding, more robust build quality, beefier caps, etc...I could go on and on.


 
  Here's a copy from a post I made a week ago in cased you missed it.


----------



## Skylab

I own an SX-680, it's a nice little receiver, but its an absolute toy compared to the SX-1980. Which is not a denigration of the 680...it powers Infinity Infintesimals in my bedroom and sounds nice doing it. But the difference between it and the 1980 isn't even close to subtle. The SX-680 weighs just under 20 pounds. The SX-1980 weighs just under 80 pounds. The massive toroidal transformer in the 1980 weighs more than the whole of the 680. The engineering, parts, and build quality are simply on a different level.

This is just one example at sort of the extremes. But 580, 680, and 780 were build to one basic set of price constraints, the 880, 980, and 1080 another, and the 1280 and 1980 yet another. The higher up you go, the more features you get and the better the build quality gets. All are very nice indeed, for what they were and are.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





skylab said:


> *But 580, 680, and 780 were build to one basic set of price constraints, the 880, 980, and 1080 another, and the 1280 and 1980 yet another. *


 
  This is more what I was looking for.
   
  What was posted by you and moodyrn about the TOTL products being massive and costly was known to me (but perhaps not some lurkers, so a restatement is always good).
   
  So, I was interested in knowing more about how much difference there was between the various models - in terms of sound quality issues.  The "dividing lines" that you describe are helpful.
   
  Does the same thing apply to the xx50 series ?   Is an 850 a level above the 650 and 750 in the same way as 880 ?
   
  And... as I look back, there seems to be some disagreement between you and moodyrn, as he says:
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *moodyrn* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As good as the sx6x0, 7x0, 8x0 are, the sx10x0 and above are just in another league


 
  So, one of you puts 880 in the same group as the 1080, while another puts it in the same group as the 780.
   
  One reason all this is important, is that there are now a lot of people out there with disposable income who will buy things that are "vintage receivers that look good" and are "top of the line", so that when their friends come over, they have the glowing light on the dial (despite the fact that they never really listen to music).
   
  So, knowing about vintage receivers that have much of the electronic circuit design quality, but are not TOTL is helpful.


----------



## moodyrn

I did go into more detail than massive and costly when I talked about better caps, better trannies, better power supplies, separate amp boards, better design, parts, shielding and build quality. But I'm glad you get the picture. I never listened to the 880 so it was more of a generalization but I have owned a 650, 1010, and 1280. Matt also commented on the massive difference sonically between his 650 and his 1280.


----------



## Silent One

When I brought the SX-D7000 home, the SX-650 sounded like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





it belonged to another manufacturer.


----------



## Skylab

I can't provide as specific an accounting of the SX-xx50 series since I have only owned a 1250. But I have at one time owned a 680, 780, 980, 1280, and 1980. Like Moody, I've not owned a 880 (or 1080), but looking at them and their specs/features, I feel pretty confident that the groupings I gave for the SX-xx80 series are valid.

And of course Moody hit all the right reasons why these get better sounding as you go up the food chain.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I own an SX-680, it's a nice little receiver, but its an absolute toy compared to the SX-1980. Which is not a denigration of the 680...it powers Infinity Infintesimals in my bedroom and sounds nice doing it. But the difference between it and the 1980 isn't even close to subtle. The SX-680 weighs just under 20 pounds. The SX-1980 weighs just under 80 pounds. The massive toroidal transformer in the 1980 weighs more than the whole of the 680. The engineering, parts, and build quality are simply on a different level.
> 
> This is just one example at sort of the extremes. But 580, 680, and 780 were build to one basic set of price constraints, the 880, 980, and 1080 another, and the 1280 and 1980 yet another. The higher up you go, the more features you get and the better the build quality gets. All are very nice indeed, for what they were and are.


 
  If there is ONE Infinity loudspeaker I always wanted to but never got to actually hear it - it is the Infinitesimal. SX 1980 must be doing at least something right if these "sonic microscopes" do not complain too much.
   
  Curious - how do woofer surrounds on your pair survive the age? Still original, refoamed ?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> New headamp


 
   
  WOW, Accuphase E-202, I always hope to listen to it. I heard Accuphase sounds a little analytic,  is it true? Do you have Yammy stuff, how these 2 compare to each other??
  Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> Nevertheless I also can take one of them


 
   
  Besides Sansui, is it another Accuphase? I am just jealous!!


----------



## Skylab

analogsurviver said:


> If there is ONE Infinity loudspeaker I always wanted to but never got to actually hear it - it is the Infinitesimal. SX 1980 must be doing at least something right if these "sonic microscopes" do not complain too much.
> 
> Curious - how do woofer surrounds on your pair survive the age? Still original, refoamed ?




The Watkins woofer on the "0.1"/original Infinitesimal, which is what I have, was a butyl rubber surround, so no concern about rot. They are really quite amazing little speakers.


----------



## MattTCG

Sha...BAM!! Deoxit strikes again. This stuff is freakin' magic. All noise on the hd650 is gone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I can even run the hd650 without the -20db engaged and the sound is still clean. Wow...just wow.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The Watkins woofer on the "0.1"/original Infinitesimal, which is what I have, was a butyl rubber surround, so no concern about rot. They are really quite amazing little speakers.


 
  Thank you for the reply. Nice to hear it confirmed - both butyl surround and their sonic capabilities. That bass out of tiny speaker must be quite something to hear - and the rest should be at least very good by any standard.
   
  Infinitesimal ( original, not later non Watkins woofer etc version ) is rare in the  US, let alone across the pond. In a way, I consider it Infinity's greatest achievement - sure IRS V is overall better speaker system, but squeezing that much in an enclosure of less volume than LS3/5a was feat then and probably remains so to this day.


----------



## moodyrn

That's great Matt? I thought given the specs the hd650 shouldn't have hissed, especially given my w3000 only hisses a little. The 650's would be a much better match than those. I bought an old marantz once that didn't produce any sound at all. A full deoxit treatment brought it to life. That stuff do work wonders.


----------



## jasonb

Nice to hear! DeoxIT FTW!!! I think it has some sort of magic pixie dust in it.
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Sha...BAM!! Deoxit strikes again. This stuff is freakin' magic. All noise on the hd650 is gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That's great Matt? I thought given the specs the hd650 shouldn't have hissed, especially given my w3000 only hisses a little. The 650's would be a much better match than those. I bought an old marantz once that didn't produce any sound at all. A full deoxit treatment brought it to life. That stuff do work wonders.


----------



## frank2908

monoethylene said:


> Thanks
> 
> It sounds quite good..
> 
> Nevertheless I also can take one of them



How's the Sansui Au20000 compared to that accuphase e202? I own an au20000 and am very curious about the accuphase


----------



## MattTCG

Can the sx-1280, or any receiver for that matter, be retro fitted with proper binding post for the speakers cable? It's one of the things that bug me about vintage receivers.


----------



## captouch

Yes, I've seen it done many times in various restoration threads, though sometimes it requires some custom work (drilling, cutting metal to proper sizes, etc).

 It'd be useful to have a thread somewhere that cross referenced off-the-shelf speaker binding post modules (with links to where you can purchase them) to particular vintage receiver/amp models.  I just recapped a Marantz 1060 and the speaker binding posts are one things I'd like to still update.  It's easy to do - just desolder 4 wires, unscrew the old module, resolder the 4 wires, and screw in a new module - if only you could find the right module that would fit.
   
  I don't have the tools to make my own, otherwise, it'd be pretty easy to do as well.


----------



## Silent One

Well, I'll be John Brown (1800-1859) if the thread this evening didn't put me in the mood! It's been a few nights..._ gonna _




_make the Sansui swing._
   

   
  I'm still Hotel side, while I look for a new place to rent. Gotta new 30-pin to stereo RCA cable to replace the cable above.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Can the sx-1280, or any receiver for that matter, be retro fitted with proper binding post for the speakers cable? It's one of the things that bug me about vintage receivers.


 
   
  I'm sure its possible just like what this guy did with a Quad 303.
   
  Before:
   

   
  After:


----------



## Silent One

Great job... I'm interested!


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Sha...BAM!! Deoxit strikes again. This stuff is freakin' magic. All noise on the hd650 is gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hurrah !
   
  For those who are wondering how to do Deoxit, here is  *Arkay's "Idiot's Guide" (because it takes one to know one... ) to a DeOxit job:*
   
  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Great job... I'm interested!


 
   
  Lol, I'm not sure if you are familiar with Quad's history. They made the first full range electrostatic speakers or ESL, this was before Stax started making electrostatic headphones. This amp's design is very old but there are kits that updates them. They can power the electrostatic ESL-57 speakers. Yup, 57 means 1957, I think, when they were first produced.


----------



## kstuart

So, the Sansui AU-417 arrived today... probably the heaviest thing I own, lol !  And when the exact same thing is sold as AU-517, it has yet another heavy transformer in the empty slot in the same case !  Holy Hernia, Batman !
   
  I can't do a legit comparison to the Marantz 140, because - even aside from the power output difference - this unit is completely recapped and serviced to bring it to original spec, which is why it was a very nice deal for US$175:
   

   
  The unit is super clean as you can see from the picture, and all pots and switches work like new.  The only thing aged looking is the RCA jacks, so I am going to treat those with contact conditioner.
   
  The sound quality is uniformly excellent in virtually all aspects.   Nothing that makes you say "wow" - except when the music calls for it (I did play Saint-Saens Organ Symphony !)   The response is very controlled, which works very well with the Universal Mad Dog 3.2 with 1/4" plug (for vintage receivers).  It also has a quiet dark background like the Mad Dog.  A very good pairing IMHO.
   
  Like the Marantz, it is excellent with rock, but the much greater 65 watts per channel give it that much more reserve - I had the volume at 9:00 to 12:00 at very most.
   
  It has slightly less air & detail than the Bellari hybrid amp, but the extra power of the Sansui seems to be very helpful with planar magnetics.  Now that I am primarily using planars instead of dynamics (the SRH-1840 was traded away), I will probably want to go the vintage route...


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> Lol, I'm not sure if you are familiar with Quad's history. They made the first full range electrostatic speakers or ESL, this was before Stax started making electrostatic headphones. This amp's design is very old but there are kits that updates them. They can power the electrostatic ESL-57 speakers. Yup, 57 means 1957, I think, when they were first produced.


 
   
  Didn't know their history... thanks. But along with MattTCG, I strongly dislike 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 some of these vintage speaker terminals!


----------



## MattTCG

Nice!! I do like the black. 

So it's okay to spray the inside of the RCA jacks? Deoxit?


----------



## Silent One

kstuart & Team Sansui bringin' the love tonight!


----------



## jasonb

I sprayed mine down and then twisted the rca cable ends back and forth to loosen corrosion up. No issues here after doing so.
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Nice!! I do like the black.
> 
> So it's okay to spray the inside of the RCA jacks? Deoxit?


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Didn't know their history... thanks. But along with MattTCG, I strongly dislike
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The modern 5-way binding posts didn't start appearing until the late 80's/early 90's in both the higher end amplifiers and speakers. Vintage receivers never used them because there is just not enough space in the back. They mostly used the spring loaded bare wire connectors.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> The modern 5-way binding posts didn't start appearing until the late 80's/early 90's in both the higher end amplifiers and speakers. Vintage receivers never used them because there is just not enough space in the back. They mostly used the spring loaded bare wire connectors.


 
   
  I found it difficult to connect the HE-6 to the rear of the SX-D7000. I mean, it worked but not securely. Felt like
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was runnin' a hokey operation.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I found it difficult to connect the HE-6 to the rear of the SX-D7000. I mean, it worked but not securely. Felt like
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You can tin the bare wires with solder.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





wuwhere said:


> You can tin the bare wires with solder.


 
   
  The cans were on loan, so I was okay with it. Now, had they been mine...


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Nice!! I do like the black.
> 
> So it's okay to spray the inside of the RCA jacks? Deoxit?


 
  See the AudioKarma link 10 posts up... it has more detail than anyone would ever want to know about Deoxit and vintage gear.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I have a little bottle of liquid contact conditioner and I'll just use a little teeny brush, or a q-tip...


----------



## kstuart

Oh, I forgot to mention... the soundstage of the AU-417 is not as deep as the Bellari hybrid, but it is the widest I have ever heard.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Beyond the headphones...


----------



## PhoenixG

On the deoxit thing - i have an old rca plug that I cut the wire from and put on a power screw-driver. I put deoxit on it and the jack then spin the plug on the jack a bit with the power screw driver. good as new, shiny and clean in no time.


----------



## Trav

Ok after deciding I'm not going outfit my west coast digs with vintage gear I have a question: Do any of you here have ANY direct AB comparisons between the SX 1980 and the Fisher 500 C? If I pull the trigger on this it's going to cost me, no barn finds here...money talks and BS walks. Looking for intimate details. Thx, T


----------



## MattTCG

Holy crap Trav...you have the 1980 on your radar? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Run don't walk and grab that bad boy brother. It's made of unubtanium.


----------



## LugBug1

+1 
  Grab that bitch by the horns and gallop like the wind!!


----------



## moodyrn

As an owner of 1280 and a restored 500c, I would say unless you have speakers that need that much power, go with the fisher. As good as the 1280 sounds, and it's sounds absolutely fabulous, I would easily put the 500c against any tube amp I've heard under 5000.00 and beyond.

If the 500c haven't been restored, I would still take it. It only cost about 300.00-400.00 to have one restored and my 500c slaps my 1280 around pretty good. The guy I sold my x100c to contacted me to tell me that it's spanking his 2000.00 tube amp, and I can believe it. There's a reason I kept it for so long. But my 500c made it unlistenable and it was on the chopping block fast.

One interesting fact is the 500c was a direct competitor to the infamous mcintosh mc275. They both retailed for the same price. They both are on the same playing field sonically, but fisher eventually went belly up and the mcintosh brand lived on. So today that's why the mc275 cost several thousands and a restored 500c can be had for a grand. Just take a look at the stereophile review when they compared it to the best modern day high end tube amps. I think the review was spot on.

Now I've never heard the 1980, but from everything I've read, it's a more powerful version of the 1280. If that's true, then I strongly suggest the 500c, especially if its restored. Now if the 1980 destroys the 1280 then disregard what I said and hopefully someone who's heard "both" can chime in because the 500c also destroys the 1280 IMO.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





skylab said:


> My basement system has a Schiit Bifrost paired with a SX-1980 and that's an excellent combo, although I've been thinking of going to a Gungir.


 
  Have you thought about adding the USB upgrade and the Uber analog board?  I did both to my Bifrost a couple of months ago and it raised the Bifrost's overall quality to a whole new level.  I am using the Bifrost in my 2-channel rig at this time and my iFi USB & Modi for headphones at this time.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Holy crap Trav...you have the 1980 on your radar?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Seen on CANUCK AUDIO pionneer sx 1980 for sale by dealer $ 3,500.00 i repeat $3,500.00


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good morning moodyrn; "calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners" members ~
   
  Like many other things that don't get a second glance, when their value is unknown, can't tell you how many times in the past couple of years I could've had one. _For a great price. _





 I know, I know... welcome to the hobby!
   
  Now that you've pushed it onto my radar... AND sonar
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, how does it sound with headphones? Or is it seeing speaker duty only?


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MIKELAP* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Seen on CANUCK AUDIO pionneer sx 1980 sold by dealer $ 3,500.00 i repeat $3,500.00


 
   
   Link me... I'll offer the new buyer $3,600!


----------



## jasonb

I'm at work on my lunch break listening to my GR01 in ears on my Samsung Galaxy S4. All I can say is that I miss my home rig.


----------



## Skylab

lee harvey said:


> Have you thought about adding the USB upgrade and the Uber analog board?  I did both to my Bifrost a couple of months ago and it raised the Bifrost's overall quality to a whole new level.  I am using the Bifrost in my 2-channel rig at this time and my iFi USB & Modi for headphones at this time.




I probably won't go that route because what I really need is more digital inputs...


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Good morning moodyr; "calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners" members ~
> 
> Like many other things that don't get a second glance, when their value is unknown, can't tell you how many times in the past couple of years I could've had one. _For a great price. _
> 
> ...


 
  I find it's performance to be equally impressive whether it's speakers or headphones. But it's not going to have the power out of the headphone jack the 1980 will....not even close. For example, my he6 are running out of the speaker taps. The heaphone out is fairly powerful, and would be great for anything other than something as hard to drive as the he-6. But my w3000 has a completely black background. Now that part isn't surprising since my x100c had a completely quiet background as well. What is surprising is the fact my jh13 also have a black background. 
   
  A quick story(you know I like to tell those). I've always been a firm believer the he-6 has no ceiling. I've tried about 15-20 different amps for them and they scale unlike anything I've ever seen. A friend and I thinks the stax 009 performance could be reached with a really high end amp. He bought an audio research vsi60 to go with a new pair of harbeth hl5. He had no intentions of ever pairing it with the he6 long term and bought it exclusively for speaker use since he  was so enameled with his dark star powering his he6. But he did invite me over to give it a try since he didn't have a pigtail  for his he6. Well not only was the combo better, it was on a whole nother level from   the darkstar he-6 combo. The sound stage and imaging was just out  of  this world. The mids were the best I've heard whether we're talking about headphones or speakers. The sound was so pure, nuance and refined, I found myself in a trance. The overall performance was so close to the 009, that we would have had to have both side by side to pick a clear winner. And I'm talking 009s paired with the blue hawaii.
   
  I said all of that to say this. The first time I listened to my he6 off the 500c, the first thought that came to mind was..."wow this sounds at least as good as the vsi60". But the only difference was the vsi60 still has the prototypical tube warmth. The 500c does everything it did, but don't sound like a tube amp tonality wise. it's one of the most neutral sounding amps I've listened to whether it's tube or solid state. But still maintain the organic richness, holographic imaging and sound stage some of the best tube amps are known for. I've listened to a lot of high end tube amps for both speakers and headphones, and the 500c takes a back seat to none of them. The only quibble I have is how unforgiving it is. If the recording have any harshness or grain, the 500c isn't going to smooth or gloss over it.(really not a quibble, that's what one should want an amp to do) But if the recording is good, then it will reward you in musically bliss. It is that good.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I said all of that to say this. The first time I listened to my he6 off the 500c, the first thought that came to mind was..."wow this sounds at least as good as the vsi60". But the only difference was the vsi60 still has the prototypical tube warmth. *The 500c does everything it did, but don't sound like a tube amp tonality wise. it's one of the most neutral sounding amps I've listened to whether it's tube or solid state. But still maintain the organic richness, holographic imaging and sound stage some of the best tube amps are known for. I've listened to a lot of high end tube amps for both speakers and headphones, and the 500c takes a back seat to none of them. The only quibble I have is how unforgiving it is. If the recording have any harshness or grain, the 500c isn't going to smooth or gloss over it.(really not a quibble, that's what one should want an amp to do) But if the recording is good, then it will reward you in musically bliss. It is that good.*


 
  Totally agree!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Moodyrn, please curb your passion, you just made many people a long way to get 500c (your input definitely will drive up deand and price)!!


----------



## moodyrn

LOL, you're right. I better tone it down a bit. I would hate to see the price reaching the stratosphere like the mc275 did. The 500c is rated by the many over at AK as the best valued amp in existence, so let's keep it that way.


----------



## LugBug1

Think we need a pic to remind us how good it looks too


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> I find it's performance to be equally impressive whether it's speakers or headphones. But it's not going to have the power out of the headphone jack the 1980 will....not even close. For example, my he6 are running out of the speaker taps. The heaphone out is fairly powerful, and would be great for anything other than something as hard to drive as the he-6. But my w3000 has a completely black background. Now that part isn't surprising since my x100c had a completely quiet background as well. What is surprising is the fact my jh13 also have a black background.
> 
> A quick story(you know I like to tell those). I've always been a firm believer the he-6 has no ceiling. I've tried about 15-20 different amps for them and they scale unlike anything I've ever seen. A friend and I thinks the stax 009 performance could be reached with a really high end amp. He bought an audio research vsi60 to go with a new pair of harbeth hl5. He had no intentions of ever pairing it with the he6 long term and bought it exclusively for speaker use since he  was so enameled with his dark star powering his he6. But he did invite me over to give it a try since he didn't have a pigtail  for his he6. Well not only was the combo better, it was on a whole nother level from   the darkstar he-6 combo. The sound stage and imaging was just out  of  this world. The mids were the best I've heard whether we're talking about headphones or speakers. The sound was so pure, nuance and refined, I found myself in a trance. The overall performance was so close to the 009, that we would have had to have both side by side to pick a clear winner. And I'm talking 009s paired with the blue hawaii.
> 
> I said all of that to say this. The first time I listened to my he6 off the 500c, the first thought that came to mind was..."wow this sounds at least as good as the vsi60". But the only difference was the vsi60 still has the prototypical tube warmth. The 500c does everything it did, but don't sound like a tube amp tonality wise. it's one of the most neutral sounding amps I've listened to whether it's tube or solid state. But still maintain the organic richness, holographic imaging and sound stage some of the best tube amps are known for. I've listened to a lot of high end tube amps for both speakers and headphones, and the 500c takes a back seat to none of them. The only quibble I have is how unforgiving it is. If the recording have any harshness or grain, the 500c isn't going to smooth or gloss over it.(really not a quibble, that's what one should want an amp to do) But if the recording is good, then it will reward you in musically bliss. It is that good.


 
   
  Stories & Pix? We 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 really like this thread! Though, the part about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Bring your own warm cookies & cold milk" could use revising. The M-C275 has been on my list forever; finally sitting atop the queue. Now have to place the '500c' conditionally by its side - 1a, 1b.
   
  Saturday, I just ordered the SR-009 & WEE. And in coming months will p/u a pre-owned HE-6 and see how they both do with my vintage SS & vintage tube amps.


----------



## kstuart

Anyone here good at electronics ?

 I ask because I downloaded the Service Manual for the Sansui AU-415.
   
  I found the schematic, and found the headphone jack.  It is connected directly to the speaker lines right before the speaker selector switch.   The headphone jack has a 220 ohm resistor in series with the Left hot line and another one in series with Right hot line.
   
  Right there on the schematic it says hand-written in Draftsman writing:
   
   
  SPEAKERS  65W + 65W / 8 ohms
   
  PHONES  80mW + 80mW / 8 ohms
   
  Both channel Driven at 1000Hz
   
   
  80mW seems awfully low, yet the headphone jack can certainly get louder than I can ever use.
   
  If I am going to use this with planar magnetic headphones, do I need to switch the 220 ohm resistors for something different ?


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the story Moody and thanks for putting another vintage receiver on my must have list. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As I continue to use the sx-1280 with both hp's and speakers, it continues to impress me with the effortless and graceful power. The pairing with the he-4 is simply other worldly. While the he-6 is on a completely different level of existence from the he-4, the 4 is still it's distant cousin and share similar amping requirements and similar ability to scale with better amps. I have decided that I have never given the he-4 enough power and certainly while the lyr would give you some goodness with the he-4, the sx-1280 simply makes it become a new hp. The difference is startling. 
   
  The  bass on the he-4 with the sx-1280 gives me an irrepressible smile each time the music goes low and deep. It's just so controlled while not shy at all. It reminds me of the way that thunder sounds after a storm has pushed through and is still strong but a few miles away...visceral, textured, palpable. 
   
  I would own the sx-1280 to power the he-4 exclusively. But I almost forgot, it also powers speakers pretty well. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I like the fact that with speakers, the sx-1280 seems to be able to conjure all the dynamics from speakers even at soft to soft/medium levels. I don't like to listen loudly with either speakers or hp's but I still want good dynamics. The sx-1280 delivers it easily.


----------



## LugBug1

and here's me listening to my lowly AU-505 with a pair of K701's plugged in... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Not that I'm complaining  I just love this little amp ha 
   
  But I've really enjoyed reading, thanks Moody and Matt. I've got all that to look forward too  
   
  But first. I need to stop buying bargains.... I'm addicted to them. I have too many low to mid pricers in my house now. There even in my wife's shoe cupboard. On the shelf. Must save.. This is the only way I'm gonna be able to afford something big. I know I can do it. I saved for the HD800's after all... 
   
  Must go, I haven't checked the Bay for at least an hour.. Doh!


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Anyone here good at electronics ?
> 
> I ask because I downloaded the Service Manual for the Sansui AU-415.
> 
> ...


 
  I would see if you like how it is first, but if you do decide to switch them, you'd be safe all the way down to 8 ohm, 130W, resistors. Might need a heat sink at some point.


----------



## moodyrn

Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

Thanks for the story Moody and thanks for putting another vintage receiver on my must have list. 

As I continue to use the sx-1280 with both hp's and speakers, it continues to impress me with the effortless and graceful power. The pairing with the he-4 is simply other worldly. While the he-6 is on a completely different level of existence from the he-4, the 4 is still it's distant cousin and share similar amping requirements and similar ability to scale with better amps. I have decided that I have never given the he-4 enough power and certainly while the lyr would give you some goodness with the he-4, the sx-1280 simply makes it become a new hp. The difference is startling. 

The bass on the he-4 with the sx-1280 gives me an irrepressible smile each time the music goes low and deep. It's just so controlled while not shy at all. It reminds me of the way that thunder sounds after a storm has pushed through and is still strong but a few miles away...visceral, textured, palpable. 

I would own the sx-1280 to power the he-4 exclusively. But I almost forgot, it also powers speakers pretty well. I like the fact that with speakers, the sx-1280 seems to be able to conjure all the dynamics from speakers even at soft to soft/medium levels. I don't like to listen loudly with either speakers or hp's but I still want good dynamics. The sx-1280 delivers it easily. 



Oh yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Not to sell the 1280 short. To me it sounds better than kr9600, sx1010, 2325, 2330b, au11000 just to name a few. The 500c is just special.


----------



## kstuart

These things are clearly are matter of  a) personal taste in sound, b) which speakers or headphones are being used, and c) the individual condition of particular vintage receivers.
   
  Why do I say that ?
   
  Because last night, I was searching through AudioKarma for more info on the various Pioneer models, and saw more than one person who had similar reactions to Matt.... except... they were going from TOTL Pioneer to Sansui 9090db.   One guy said " I've had some great [TOTL] Pioneer receivers, but I will never sell my 9090db ".
   
  But hardly anyone on AudioKarma is using headphones...
   
  BTW, there is an overwhelming consensus on AudioKarma that the Pioneer xx50 series sounds better and is better build quality than the xx80 series.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> These things are clearly are matter of  a) personal taste in sound, b) which speakers or headphones are being used, and c) the individual condition of particular vintage receivers.
> 
> Why do I say that ?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think that guy you may be quoting is our very own Moody. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So what year was the fisher 500c produced?


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> and here's me listening to my lowly AU-505 with a pair of K701's plugged in...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What I rarely see is a Spec 1 / Spec 2 combo getting talked about as far as TOTL. 
   
  So I guess I'll bring it back up since that's what I have.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's a 250 watt per channel beast of an amp that you need a forklift to move around the house and feeding into the Spec 1 (for clarity - it is fed by the Spec 1 signal-wise but then you feed the output back into the Spec 1 preamp for the speakers and headphone out) the sound is on such a different level than my lower end vintage stuff.  Not that they are bad - to the contrary, they are what I started with after my Magni got ignored, but the Spec stuff is amazing.
   
  My point being - you may want to add a Spec system to your long term goal list to rival the SX-1280/1980 gang.  And if you want/require a receiver, add a TX-9500 and you'll have more shiny aluminum staring you in the face than you ever dreamed of....................
   
  I cannot believe how good my D7000's sound out of this stack, and the bass is visceral...................


----------



## MattTCG

I'm getting a little noise when plugging in hp's to the hp jack. Is it safe to give a little squirt of deoxit right into the hp jack?


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> I think that guy you may be quoting is our very own Moody.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
   
   
  LOL, not this time. He's right though. There are a lot of people who prefer the 9090db to the 1280 over there. And most who have owned or listened to both the 1250 and 1280 do prefer the 1250. That's one of the reasons I was so shocked when I first listened to the 1280. I wasn't expecting it to be that good. So given the impressions comparing the 1250 and 1280, I would really like to own the 1250 next to see if it's really better than the 1280. If it is, then it's really one incredible sounding receiver. But the fact is, the 1250 do have better build quality than the 1280. The 1250 is slightly heavier, bigger caps, have better shielding, but is rated at 25wpc less than the 1280(go figure   So it's definitely on my radar.
   
  But I do like my 9090db more than my 1280. But my 9090db has been completely rebuilt internally, and although my 1280 is mint and really looks brand new, I'm sure it could benefit from at least a recap. But the original owner of my 9090db really shelled out the cash on this. I'm not talking premium panasonic caps, but nichicon fine gold caps; and I mean everywhere with audiophile resistors to boot. So it's really an unfair fight in favor of the sansui. 
   
  And to add, when you get into the higher end vintage gear,  it really does come down to sound signature preference. So there's no right or wrong answers. Like the fact some prefer the sx1010 over both the 1250 and 1280. I haven't listened to the 1250 unfortunately, but in regards to the 1280, lets just say I disagree.


----------



## PhoenixG

matttcg said:


> I'm getting a little noise when plugging in hp's to the hp jack. Is it safe to give a little squirt of deoxit right into the hp jack?


 

  Yeah, just make sure nothing is powered up or on. Try using a hp plug covered in deoxit or a q-tip to get the deoxit and oxidization off.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> What I rarely see is a Spec 1 / Spec 2 combo getting talked about as far as TOTL.
> 
> So I guess I'll bring it back up since that's what I have.
> 
> ...


 
  I would love a spec 1/2 combo matey, but the odds of one of them popping up at my neck of the woods are about as good as.. Well, my wife allowing me to use her shoe cupboard as a surplus amp storage unit.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm getting a little noise when plugging in hp's to the hp jack. Is it safe to give a little squirt of deoxit right into the hp jack?


 
  Yup, in fact I insist you do it. Why have you not done it already?  Always unplug from the mains when cleaning.. Little squirt in there and if you have a cotton bud, the type peeps clean their ears with- gently clean inside. Squirt inside the inputs at the back as well. I use a fine art paint brush to clean inside those as a cotton bud won't fit.


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey, I just want to throw in my two cents. IMHO, the 1280 and 1250 are different animals. Sure they have a lot in common and are in theory just a model year newer, but they were built for different price points. I like looking at the insides, and the 1250 seems to have more in common with the 1980 than the 1280. The 1250 and 1980 seem to have the same power and tuner sections, despite different power ratings. The 1250 has more shielding, like the 1980, and is heavier. Anyone with better knowledge on this?


----------



## moodyrn

Attention Skylab, you have a call on line 3....lol. He's the best one to answer this since he's owned all three of the pioneer monsters. I think I remember him preferring the 1280 over the 1250 though. Although I haven't heard the 1250 or 1980, I'll take one of each.


----------



## MattTCG

Is the sx1250 at $650 in very good condition worthy of consideration?


----------



## Skylab

I have owned the 1250, 1280, and 1980, and all three are really outstanding. The 1250 is a little warmer than the 1280 and 1980, but otherwise not so different. The 1980 has for sure the best phono section, and to me seems to offer the smoothest and most nuanced performance, but its only subtly better than the 1250 or 1280.

Matt, an excellent condition 1250 for $650 is a decent but not exceptional price. But honestly, your money is MUCH better spent getting your 1280 recapped.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> Matt, an excellent condition 1250 for $650 is a decent but not exceptional price. But honestly, your money is MUCH better spent getting your 1280 recapped.


   

  x2


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I have owned the 1250, 1280, and 1980, and all three are really outstanding. The 1250 is a little warmer than the 1280 and 1980, but otherwise not so different. The 1980 has for sure the best phono section, and to me seems to offer the smoothest and most nuanced performance, but its only subtly better than the 1250 or 1280.
> 
> Matt, an excellent condition 1250 for $650 is a decent but not exceptional price. But honestly, your money is MUCH better spent getting your 1280 recapped.


 
   
  I was already starting to ponder the recap. As much as I like to gear swap, the 1280 just hits all the right spots for me and I'm seriously thinking of a recap for the 1280. Doing some research over on AK now.


----------



## kstuart

I did not notice this originally, since my main use for the Sansui AU-417 would be headphones... here is a picture of a stock unit:

  and here is the AU-417 which I received yesterday:

  Hint - remember the Quad amp posted a day or two ago ?
   
  UPDATE:  A google search shows that there are some other ones out there with the box around the top writing and the binding posts.  So, evidently my unit is stock and is later-production-run... AK had a code for the serial numbers, and it is April 1979 (definitely later production!).  BeatleFred on AK posted about the production runs:
  Quote: 





> I believe the AU-919 was introduced before the 719, since *the early 919's from '78 all appear to have the spring clip speaker terminals*. However, I tend to think of the 719 as part of the 'one-nine' series, as they do have the DD/DC circuitry denoted in green print on the front panel.
> 
> *It can get a bit complicated since there is some overlap in the product line*....
> 
> *And even though the AU-717 was discontinued in '79*, there were still some smaller 'one-seven' models in the line, *the AU-417*....117II and their matching 'one-seven' series tuners *which continued into 1980*.


 
  So it seems that Sansui did not want to make an AU-419, so they just kept making the AU-417 into 1980, hence some AU-417s have x19 features like binding posts.  And, since the early x19s, in 1978, have spring clips, *we can conclude that Sansui changed to binding posts in 1979*.
   
  (The sort of detective work that one is only motivated to do for a piece of gear one owns, lol.)


----------



## MattTCG

Love the binding post!!


----------



## kstuart

And, coming round to the earlier discussion, here is a nice thread with pictures, from the Sansui forum at AK, about putting Binding Posts on an amp that comes with clips, including pictures of several different aftermarket binding posts installed:
   
  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=480423


----------



## moodyrn

That's great info and very helpful.

Oregonian there's one reason the spec stuff don't get talked about much.....you and a few others are in a class all by yourselves. Not many will ever get that lucky lol. The alternative is scoring a spec setup by paying the price of a used Mercedes.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Oregonian there's one reason the spec stuff don't get talked about much.....you and a few others are in a class all by yourselves. Not many will ever get that lucky lol. The alternative is scoring a spec setup by paying the price of a used Mercedes.


 
   
  I think SX-1980 fetches more money than spec rack(or most important part spec 1 and 4). The reason is that we are in "integrated/receiver" thread, the SPEC is separates.
   
  If we talk separates, BmWr75's Marantz rack also keeps me drooling.


----------



## moodyrn

When I created this thread, I had all vintage amps in mind. So this thread is not just limited to integrateds and receivers. My statement above was more tongue in cheek than anything else. I guess I assumed that was obvious. But the main reason why separates isn't discussed more is, they aren't nearly as plentiful and as easy to acquire as neither integrates nor receivers. That's also the reason receivers are discussed here more than integrateds. There just so many more of them and they are way easier to come across.


----------



## Skylab

I would love to hear a whole Spec setup someday. I've never even seen them in the flesh.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would love to hear a whole Spec setup someday. I've never even seen them in the flesh.


 

 Stop on by.  You are cordially invited next time you're in Portland, Oregon.  Really.


----------



## harrinj

I hope the Marantz 4400 I want to get will still be available by the 21st :/ though with my luck some jerk will take it. That's what happened to the 2238B I wanted on Craigslist. It was on there for two months and when I get enough money? Someone got it the day before. Funny huh? >___> seems its always the case. Anyone else have this nasty luck? Well I suppose it happens to everyone...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would love to hear a whole Spec setup someday. I've never even seen them in the flesh.


 
   
  I'm sorry but I'm relatively new to all this. Can someone educate or link me to the fabled spec setup?
   
  Also I've found a guy in Tennessee to help with the recap on my 1280. He's very reasonable priced...I'll have to drive it to him and pick it up. Not too much to ask for an end game setup.  Thanks to Moody and Trav on that.


----------



## kazsud

I auditioned a SX-1050 & SA-9500II last night and although they sounded nice I didn't believe they were better than the SX-750 I have :/


----------



## Silent One

What were you pushing them down the street with?


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm sorry but I'm relatively new to all this. Can someone educate or link me to the fabled spec setup?


 

 The Spec series I am no knowledge expert on other than owning a system.   It has a Spec 1 preamp and Spec 2 amp (250 wpc) as part of the system which has a TX9500II tuner, SG-9500 equalizer, CT-F1000 cassette tape deck, all separates (the tuner has no amp) feeding into the preamp which feeds the amp which is a monster (55 lbs).   I also feed it with a turntable, a CD player and an iPod/iPhone.  Pic of it below................


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> Stop on by.  You are cordially invited next time you're in Portland, Oregon.  Really.




Thanks!!! You never know...I do travel a lot for work! And your Spec rack looks great and sounds awesome I'm sure.

The one part of Spec stuff I have heard are the tape decks...I own a CT-F1000, which is a super nice cassette deck, and the RT-707 reel deck I have is also considered part of the Spec line. What I haven't ever heard are the preamp and amp.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Thanks!!! You never know...I do travel a lot for work! And your Spec rack looks great and sounds awesome I'm sure.
> 
> The one part of Spec stuff I have heard are the tape decks...I own a CT-F1000, which is a super nice cassette deck, and the RT-707 reel deck I have is also considered part of the Spec line. What I haven't ever heard are the preamp and amp.


 

 My CT-F1000 has been dead since I bought the system (much like the one you sold on Audiokarma) and have yet to get it to my tech for repairs.  I likely would use it rarely but would like to get it fixed just to try it out. 
   
  By the way, he has a RT-707 for sale for $345.............soooooooooooooooo tempting.  It has the rack mounts so it would drop nicely into mine if I decide to go reel to reel instead of cassette.  First world problems I think the term is. 
   
  I'm serious - if you're ever out this way on biz let me know.  Would love to meet you and talk vintage.


----------



## Silent One

Is that a good (Outstanding?) price for the '707'?


----------



## Skylab

The RT-707 generally doesn't command a high price because there are still a lot of working ones around. It was an incredibly popular deck that was in continuous production for a fairly long time, and since it was direct drive and had no belts to rot, it's highly reliable and almost any RT-707 that wasn't abused is likely to work.

The real question is the condition of the heads. If the heads are not worn, the 707 is also a terrific sounding deck. 

A working 707 with good heads will typically sell for $300-400. If it is in mint cosmetic condition, maybe as high as $450 tops. I bought a very pretty one that was completely recapped from Black Swamp Audio for $500. I also bought one locally for $250 that looks and sounds great. If you find one in good condition for $200, you scored.


----------



## kstuart

There isn't a market for cassette decks at all (other than Dragons).   (_I know the RT-707 of the previous post is a reel, I was referring to the earlier post.)_
   
  I had a Nakamichi 480Z, with original wired remote control and original cleaning kit, and serviced, on ebay for three separate weeks for $99 incl free shipping and no bids.  (The transport on that unit is much better than any non-Nak cassette deck.)  I ended up giving it away locally...


----------



## kstuart

So after reading Matt's post on the various amps that he tried with the Alpha Dogs, it occurred to me to check the schematics on the 9090db and the SX-1280 to see what they used for the headphone jack.  So,
   
*AU-417:*
   
  Resistors in series with L and R hot leads - marked 220(2)
   
_schematic has same speakers power rating written on it as found in specs, and also characterizes phones as "80mw"_
  
*9090db:*
   
  Resistors in series with L and R hot leads - marked 220(5)
   
_schematic has same speakers power rating written on it as found in specs, but does not mention phones power rating_
_(8080 which was on same page, uses same 220 resistors)_
   
*SX-1280:*
   
  Resistors in series with L and R hot leads - marked 150(3w)
   
_schematic says " 40V/8 ohm " next to speaker jack, and "143mV/8 ohm  SP at 1W" next to headphone jack_
   
*SX-1010 *(_because I noticed Moodyrn earlier stated " The way it [SX-1010] effortlessly drove the he-6 out of the headphone out was simply amazing."_):
   
  Resistors in series with L and R hot leads - marked 150
   
_schematic says " 30.5V/8 ohm " next to speaker jack, and "143mV/8 ohm  AT SP. OUTPUT 1W" next to headphone jack_ (interesting the different grammar)
   
*Matt - *Based on the fact that the AU-417 has the same resistors in series as the 9090DB, and that the SX-1280 resistors are not too much smaller, my reading of your "reviews" is that there is unlikely to be any sound quality benefit to replacing the resistors with lower values.  Do you agree ?


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> The Spec series I am no knowledge expert on other than owning a system.   It has a Spec 1 preamp and Spec 2 amp (250 wpc) as part of the system which has a TX9500II tuner, SG-9500 equalizer, CT-F1000 cassette tape deck, all separates (the tuner has no amp) feeding into the preamp which feeds the amp which is a monster (55 lbs).   I also feed it with a turntable, a CD player and an iPod/iPhone.  Pic of it below................


 
  WOW


----------



## ihatelolcats

hello everyone, i have a pioneer sx-6 receiver with a very audible hum. the hum is in the right ear only up to volume 6 (this has a push button volume control) then at 7 both ears get it. has anyone experienced this before and if so what do you suggest to repair it? thanks in advance 

i forgot to mention, this unit only has 2 wire AC power with no ground. so i think a ground loop is out of the question


----------



## jasonb

Anybody know what kind of wattage or Mili-wattage the SX750 puts out the headphone jack?


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> There isn't a market for cassette decks at all (other than Dragons).   (_I know the RT-707 of the previous post is a reel, I was referring to the earlier post.)_
> 
> I had a Nakamichi 480Z, with original wired remote control and original cleaning kit, and serviced, on ebay for three separate weeks for $99 incl free shipping and no bids.  (The transport on that unit is much better than any non-Nak cassette deck.)  I ended up giving it away locally...


 
  I tend to disagree - but can understand your opinion. 
   
  Nakamichi decks enjoy cult following - for a reason. Yet it is hardly known, particularly in the US, that Technics' last series of serious decks, RS-AZ 6 and RS-AZ 7, belong to a very select and distinguished group of cassette decks, in some parameters bettering Naka, And if Naka fanboys start rattling with Dragons - did they ever see Technics top deck, the only cassette deck I know of to consist of two boxes, mechanics and electronics separately, each weighing a ton ?
   
  RS-AZ series was to my knowledge never available in US. It is one of the last if not actually THE last cassette deck design - it came out in 1996. 
  I did not hear a 1000 or Dragon - but what comes out of Technics RS AZ series of decks is no slouch compared to - anything. The transport could (and should, given the quality in every other department ) be better - but even as it was/is, this is one mightily fine deck.
   
  I recently sold one of my NOS RS-AZ 6 decks - only because I needed $. In terms of ease of sale - one can hardly have a piece of audio equipment that sounds so superiur to its peers as this deck does, selling almost itself ( provided it gets some help like wiring it into the system ). It does not "sound" like a cassete deck at all - no loss of bass, no appreciable loss of treble, dynamic range is phenomenal - and what is rare in cassette world, it has stage width and depth just a notch worse than the source tape was made from - most turntables can not match that kind of performance. The most shocking thing - it pulls this feat even with factory pre recorded tapes !


----------



## bce22

Look what the Postman delivered today!  Needs a good deoxit treatment but otherwise in good condition and sounds sweet playing 24bit 96k FLACs from the ole trusty rockboxed iPod to the HE-500s.
   
  .
   
   
  Whats the word on the phono stage on these AU-x17 'Suis?  I've really been digging spinning vinyl lately on my Realistic LAB-400 through my Realistic STA-2100D even more than through the Luxman R-1150.
   
  I cant wait to hear the Scott 299b but I'm going to have it restored by Craig at NOS Valves first.


----------



## bce22

Look what the Postman delivered today!  Needs a good deoxit treatment but otherwise in good condition and sounds sweet playing 24bit 96k FLACs from the ole trusty rockboxed iPod to the HE-500s.
   
  .
   
   
  Whats the word on the phono stage on these AU-x17 'Suis?  I've really been digging spinning vinyl lately on my Realistic LAB-400 through my Realistic STA-2100D even more than through the Luxman R-1120.
   
  I cant wait to hear the Scott 299b but I'm going to have it restored by Craig at NOS Valves first.


----------



## Skylab

jasonb said:


> Anybody know what kind of wattage or Mili-wattage the SX750 puts out the headphone jack?




It depends on the impedance of the headphone, of course. Pioneer used mostly 150 ohm dropping resistors, so that factors in as well. Somewhere I have the spreadsheet that does the calculation. I remember that the SX-1980 from its headphone jack puts out a max of about 25 WATTS into the LCD-3 

BCE, beautiful Sui! I'm sure the phono stage is quite good. Phono was everything back then!


----------



## Trav

A coworker (who also owns a 1250, not for sale) has a mint condition 707 with 2 boxes full of tape he's offering to me for $125. Never used one. Any thoughts?


----------



## jasonb

Wow. All I know is that I have yet to bring the volume knob past the 10 o'clock spot. Usually it is in the 8-9 spot with both my T50rp and my Q701. What are we talking here, something like 5 watts or so max into about 50-62ohm headphones from the SX-750?
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It depends on the impedance of the headphone, of course. Pioneer used mostly 150 ohm dropping resistors, so that factors in as well. Somewhere I have the spreadsheet that does the calculation. I remember that the SX-1980 from its headphone jack puts out a max of about 25 WATTS into the LCD-3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Look what the Postman delivered today!  Needs a good deoxit treatment but otherwise in good condition and sounds sweet playing 24bit 96k FLACs from the ole trusty rockboxed iPod to the HE-500s.
> 
> .
> 
> ...


 
   
  I had one 2 years ago, nice one. I sold it since I got 2 ailing AU-717 which are still waiting for restore. There were lots talk about this model at the beginning of this thread.
   
  What's wrong with R-1120 phono stage? I don't listen to phono, but no one said bad thing about Luxman phono on the internet.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Anybody know what kind of wattage or Mili-wattage the SX750 puts out the headphone jack?


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> It depends on the impedance of the headphone, of course. Pioneer used mostly 150 ohm dropping resistors, so that factors in as well. Somewhere I have the spreadsheet that does the calculation. I remember that the SX-1980 from its headphone jack puts out a max of about 25 WATTS into the LCD-3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just for the heck of it, I searched for the Pioneer SX750 service manual.
   
  You're Skylab, its 150ohms.


----------



## Skylab

jasonb said:


> Wow. All I know is that I have yet to bring the volume knob past the 10 o'clock spot. Usually it is in the 8-9 spot with both my T50rp and my Q701. What are we talking here, something like 5 watts or so max into about 50-62ohm headphones from the SX-750?




As a rough guess that would probably be about right, yes.



trav said:


> A coworker (who also owns a 1250, not for sale) has a mint condition 707 with 2 boxes full of tape he's offering to me for $125. Never used one. Any thoughts?




RUN. Don't walk. RUN over there, with cash in hand, and hope its still there!!!!


----------



## MattTCG

Um Trav...I think you been given a pearl of wisdom here. Better jump on it!!


----------



## wuwhere

The size of the resistor depends on the receiver's power rating. The Pioneer SX-2900 is rated at 65wpc @ 8ohms. Its headphone resistors' value was 330ohms.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> I had one 2 years ago, nice one. I sold it since I got 2 ailing AU-717 which are still waiting for restore. There were lots talk about this model at the beginning of this thread.
> 
> What's wrong with R-1120 phono stage? I don't listen to phono, but no one said bad thing about Luxman phono on the internet.


 
  There is nothing wrong with it.  Im going to clean the phono contacts and have a compare session  between all my amp phono stages.  I gotta tell ya i love the luxman with phones and digital source material. i definately love it.


----------



## moodyrn

Bce22 big congrats on the sansui. Looking forward to further impressions.


Trav that is a smoking deal, better jump on that while its still available!'


----------



## calipilot227

Had some interesting lighting going on in my room today


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Had some interesting lighting going on in my room today


 

 Definitely mood lighting................so what models are they? Pioneer for sure and a TX.................and integrated.


----------



## calipilot227

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Definitely mood lighting................so what models are they? Pioneer for sure and a TX.................and integrated.


 
   
  TX-6500 II tuner, and SA-8500 integrated. My camera happened to be sitting right beside me when I glanced over.


----------



## kstuart

Anyone happen to know - do the E-waste people know anything about vintage audio ?   If something in this thread appears on the E-waste pallets, do they route them to vintage electronics restoration guys ?
   
  Or do they just melt down the metal, etc. ?


----------



## calipilot227

I would guess the latter


----------



## MinedSafe

Hi guys 
   
   
   I'm a very big fan of an vintage  audio eq. Had many different models over the years. Now I'm working on a Grunding V1700 amplifier. This model is one of the best sounding Grundig model ever produced. It looks small and uninspiring but man, the sound of it is beautiful. 
   
  I had it for lat couple of years lying in my basement. Connected recently to check how it sounds with my new Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro 250 ohm. 
   
  I decided to change all capacitors to some Nichicon, Elna caps. Did some cleaning inside out removing oxidation on all inputs. Changed the internal cabling for headphone out. Changed the power cable. Some other minor stuff. Will have to do more work on it in next few days. But even now its sounds fantastic. 
   
  Grundig has its own sound signature, warm, full bodied yet not loosing detail. Its like tube amp with some of the D class amp clarity. Changing the caps did not change the sound signature witch is very good and proofs that its a well build amp.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey that very cool about the Grundig. I get the feeling that Grundig may live in the land of obscuria. I recently heard a setup with some Grundig box speakers and stunned at the sound they were able to produce. 
   
  I have been keeping an eye out for them on ebay since.


----------



## kstuart

Okay, so is there a definitive discussion somewhere (presumably on Head-Fi !) of Headphone Output Jacks, their resistors, and the factors of headphone impedance, amp impedance and power, etc. ?
   
  The usual thing I see is a question in a thread, which is then answered by someone such as me who has limited knowledge.
   
  For example, Matt and Moody both have expressed excellent results using the stock headphone jacks of Pioneer and Sansui receivers that have 150 and 220 ohm resistors.  But are those values better or worse depending on the headphones ?   Etc.
   
  So has all this been detailed before by guys (such as Dan) who have thorough electrical expertise ?


----------



## MattTCG

I won't be of much help here. The technical aspect of electrical schematics and such is not my background. I usually ask Steve Eddy when it comes to the questions you've asked. Shoot him a pm and see what comes back.


----------



## palmfish

I dont know the reason why, but my HD800's sound fantastic, with tight punchy bass, great mids and treble, etc. through my Bottlehead Crack (120 ohm output impedance) but thick and muddy through my Pioneer SA-5800 and Carver Receiver.


----------



## kstuart

The Bottlehead Crack is specifically designed to work with high impedance headphones like the Sennheiser HD800.
   
  It is unclear which headphones were kept in mind when the Pioneer SA-5800 and the Carver receiver were designed, and it is entirely possible that the headphone jack was an afterthought in both cases.  Also, in both cases, the units are old enough that any particular poor performance *may* be due to some particular component no longer performing to spec (unless both units were tested relatively recently).


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I won't be of much help here. The technical aspect of electrical schematics and such is not my background. I usually ask Steve Eddy when it comes to the questions you've asked. Shoot him a pm and see what comes back.


 
  I was just wondering if this had been definitively discussed in the past ?  (Meaning the electrical aspects of using modern headphones with vintage amps.)


----------



## LugBug1

Modern headphones? This is 1973 my friend. All headphones are 8ohm's.


----------



## Skylab

*My "final" SX-1980 - fully mint and now fully restored!!!*

I didn't really need another one, but when the chance came a few months back to pick up a mint SX-1980 locally, in original box with all paperwork, I went for it. When it was delivered, I could see that it was really honestly mint:



And while it was working fine, the whole point was to then have it completely restored to the maximum possible degree. AK's own Mattsd, who had done a great job on a 1280 I had, was picked to be the restorer. It ended up being a challenge, as unbeknownst to me, there had been some "repair" work done to it, and not very well. Fortunately Matt was able to deal with that. Full recap including the big filter caps; all the usual power supply board work; LEDs for the function indicators; new trim pots for bias and DC offset...etc etc. I finally got her back today, and WOW...she's a beauty inside and out now!!! And sounds GREAT 







YAY!!!!!


----------



## LugBug1

YAY!! indeed!! Congrats bud, its certainly the creme de la creme of vintage.
   





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






   
  (can I have your other one??


----------



## 5aces

Always good to see a fine piece get a new lease on performance with a restoration.
Keep the water away and an eye out for those elusive Pioneer eXclusive series...


----------



## claybum

Congrats skylab, looks great!!!


----------



## palmfish

kstuart said:


> The Bottlehead Crack is specifically designed to work with high impedance headphones like the Sennheiser HD800.
> 
> It is unclear which headphones were kept in mind when the Pioneer SA-5800 and the Carver receiver were designed, and it is entirely possible that the headphone jack was an afterthought in both cases.  Also, in both cases, the units are old enough that any particular poor performance *may* be due to some particular component no longer performing to spec (unless both units were tested relatively recently).




My point was that output impedance alone is not enough to predict if a headphone will sound good out of a particular amp.

Yes, both units perform to spec.


----------



## zibra

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Okay, so is there a definitive discussion somewhere (presumably on Head-Fi !) of Headphone Output Jacks, their resistors, and the factors of headphone impedance, amp impedance and power, etc. ?
> 
> The usual thing I see is a question in a thread, which is then answered by someone such as me who has limited knowledge.
> 
> ...


 
  i would guess since you ave ortodynamic eadpones you could easily live wit eadpone out from vintage amp. i tried first of all at my eadpone amp wic normally could ave  about 5 om output impedance. i inreased it by adding resistors up to 150 om. at tat value sound was quite bad BUT because it took a lot of power of eadamp. 
  now i ave arman kardon pm655vxi for start. tere were 2x 470om resistors. i replaced it by 2 x 2x56om mundorf mr5 resistors because i ad suc and tere was place to mount it. of course  now teres muc louder because tat amp isnt weak i noticed sligtly more neutral sound. original resistors look very similiar to kiwame and as tese are carbon ones it could ave someting to do on sound signature. so general for ortodynamic eadpones i see very minor influence of resistor in pat and wouldnt mind to connect it straigt into speaker taps. in many cases we could get ridiculously loud sound if amp is very powerful.
  btw as anyone eard pm655vxi wit eadpones and could give me idea wat can i expect from oter models? im begineer on tat area and would like to ear any opinion
   
  very sorry for gramatic and soso sentences. very tired and my keyboard doesnt work properly.


----------



## palmfish

skylab said:


> *My "final" SX-1980 - fully mint and now fully restored!!!*
> 
> I didn't really need another one, but when the chance came a few months back to pick up a mint SX-1980 locally, in original box with all paperwork, I went for it. When it was delivered, I could see that it was really honestly mint:
> 
> ...




I just wet myself...


----------



## Skylab

LOL!!!

Thanks all. She's sure a beauty, and truly both inside and out. I can now rest assured I will have SX-1980 goodness for a LONG time


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, wow, wow!!! Congrats Sky! That looks stunning. That beast will probably outlive most off us.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





skylab said:


> *My "final" SX-1980 - fully mint and now fully restored!!!*
> 
> I didn't really need another one, but when the chance came a few months back to pick up a mint SX-1980 locally, in original box with all paperwork, I went for it. When it was delivered, I could see that it was really honestly mint:
> 
> ...


 
  No spoiler here - this is worth seeing again, and again.  A big boy toy for sure.  Congrats Rob, that must be just gorgeous in person and worth staring at.


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> No spoiler here - this is worth seeing again, and again.  A big boy toy for sure.  Congrats Rob, that must be just gorgeous in person and worth staring at.




Thanks! It really is. It's now that rare combo of mint condition cosmetically and completely rebuilt internally. And LEDs for the function indicators really also help make it look like its brand new!




moodyrn said:


> Wow, wow, wow!!! Congrats Sky! That looks stunning. That beast will probably outlive most off us.




Thanks bud. I am sure it will - which is one really cool part...this 35 year old SX-1980 will be singing well into its 50th birthday and beyond! And the power supply on the 1980 really is something to behold and admire...the size of the toroidal transformer and main filter caps are just amazing.


----------



## moodyrn

Yep, one of the best internals I've seen from any amp.


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats Rob!! I have no words. Enjoy. 
   
  We need to talk about getting this guy Matt to restore my 1280.


----------



## Steve Eddy

I can't help thinking of the scene in Paint Your Wagon where the Mormon rides into No Name City with two wives. 

Cool beans, Rob!

se


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> Congrats Rob!! I have no words. Enjoy.
> 
> We need to talk about getting this guy Matt to restore my 1280.




Matt does a very nice job and is good to work with. And his wait list isn't quite as long as the more "famous" restorers on AK. At the time I contacted Matt about the 1980, his wait list was a couple months.


----------



## Trav

skylab said:


> *My "final" SX-1980 - fully mint and now fully restored!!!*2 words...Dayum!
> 
> I didn't really need another one, but when the chance came a few months back to pick up a mint SX-1980 locally, in original box with all paperwork, I went for it. When it was delivered, I could see that it was really honestly mint:
> 
> ...


----------



## Trav

2 words Rob...Dayum!


----------



## PhoenixG

Bravo skylab - I love admiring the gear here, especially the 1980 - it's an engineer's wet dream for sure haha. 
   
  Which is a nice segue into the whole "output resistor" thing we've been talking about. Output resistors on vintage amps exist as protection between your high power output transistors and your nice headphones. Also, they keep you from shorting out your amp when you pull out your headphones with the volume all the way up (I know you would never do that, but remember, often enough these things are designed with the lowest common denominator in mind). The math on them is beautifully straight forward since they are non-modal. There are, of course, some more complex interactions (notably EM interference between them and high order modal interactions from your HP's), but for the most part, they have a pretty low effect on your sound compared to the other 99.99% of your amp's components. You'd get more bang for your buck installing a nice quality HP output if you have power hungry phones (because yes, the HP out probably was an afterthought)
   
  If you don't like how your amp sounds, changing your output impedance won't really change it much. Changing them imperfectly probably will make it worse, if anything.  You can certainly make it louder - to a point, but you can also create a potential for damage if your hp out circuit isn't built for higher currents. You might do it to tune the output level for your specific HP's to take advantage of you amp's "sweet spot" (usually about half way up). 
   
  That's not to say they are completely unrelated to how your amp sounds. If you have really complex headphones, you increase the potential for modal interactions with your amp. The higher the output resistance, the more insulated your amp is. How exactly that all plays out is a result of your headphones and amp's specific design more than anything else.
   
  Long story short - changing around output resistors can be one way to tune an amp to a set of headphones to keep it in its sweet spot and let the intermodal business play itself out best, but those interactions are small compared to your amp and HP signatures... I'm not really in favor of changing them around without a really good reason. Their Ohm values are unlikely to predict if a pairing will be good. Maybe if you know more about the exact electronics of your specific HP's, literally how they're made, it might be an indicator.
  That search for a good pairing keeps us vintage fans on the hunt. I hate to say it, but get what you like the sound of.


----------



## nailbunny7

Only pic you get for now because this was exhausting to pack up my stairs and unwrap lol


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





nailbunny7 said:


> Only pic you get for now because this was exhausting to pack up my stairs and unwrap lol


 
   
  Wow, beautiful.  Love the black face vintage receivers - nice change up to see from time to time vs the usual silver (not that I don't love silver as well!)


----------



## 5aces

Best in Black that Pioneer receiver model...



phoenixg said:


> Output resistors on vintage amps exist as protection between your high power output transistors and your nice headphones.
> If you don't like how your amp sounds, changing your output impedance won't really change it much.




Modern tube amps I've used, such as the Luxman SQ-N100 directly tap the main valve output stage for the headphone socket.
A pair of 470 ohm load resistors attenuates its strength.

As pointed out, what separates 'good' amplifiers from "top tier" is a high quality power supply that is well implemented and _great analog circuits_.
Weight does not _always_ equal better sound.
The all time great units may use frame and beam chassis design but even without that heft, they would not be less of a performer without it.
Inherent design matters most, the case/chassis being a base if you will, superimposed on the existing design.

A heavier chassis will provide sound dampening, a hard proper case will provide some shielding and a strong power supply will introduce less noise into the system but it is those circuit designs that are meaningful in my book.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





captouch said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  +1


----------



## palmfish

+1 that looks stunning. I like it better than silver I think.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





phoenixg said:


> Bravo skylab - I love admiring the gear here, especially the 1980 - it's an engineer's wet dream for sure haha.
> 
> Which is a nice segue into the whole "output resistor" thing we've been talking about. Output resistors on vintage amps exist as protection between your high power output transistors and your nice headphones. Also, they keep you from shorting out your amp when you pull out your headphones with the volume all the way up (I know you would never do that, but remember, often enough these things are designed with the lowest common denominator in mind). The math on them is beautifully straight forward since they are non-modal. There are, of course, some more complex interactions (notably EM interference between them and high order modal interactions from your HP's), but for the most part, they have a pretty low effect on your sound compared to the other 99.99% of your amp's components. You'd get more bang for your buck installing a nice quality HP output if you have power hungry phones (because yes, the HP out probably was an afterthought)
> 
> ...


 
  Very helpful post thanks


----------



## bce22

I don't know if you realize, but there are 1450 images in this one thread.  1450 images of beautful vintage goodness.  This thread is an audiophiles wet dream and the best thread on head-fi!


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> I don't know if you realize, but there are 1450 images in this one thread.  1450 images of beautful vintage goodness.  This thread is an audiophiles wet dream and the best thread on head-fi!


 
  Maybe there should be two different threads then.  A "using vintage amps with headphones" thread and a "pictures of my new car" er sorry "pictures of my new receiver" thread.
   
  If you go to:
   
  images.google.com
   
  and type:
   
  SX-1980
   
  you can see plenty of pictures 24 hours a day.
   
  What happens here is someone posts a question.
   
  Then someone posts six huge pictures of their new receiver.
   
  Then each person who says congratulations, *clicks on quote instead of repl**y posting all six pictures all over again.*
   
  The result is that the question is then several pages back, visually lost and forgotten.
   
  Since hardly anyone posts impressions of headphone sound, they might as well post pictures of camaros and corvettes,


----------



## MattTCG

Grumpy...


----------



## LugBug1

Kstuart,
  Most of the peeps on this thread really aren't bothered about specs. We all know that these old machines aren't designed specifically for headphones. And must of us use speakers with them anyhow. I like this thread because its an appreciation of a golden era of hifi, where the looks of the machines are as much of the appreciation as is the sound quality. We love looking at each others gear. We don't get bogged down with petty arguments of what amp has the best specs.. If it sounds good then that's all that matters. 
   
  PheanixG answered your question in a very comprehensive manner. There really isn't much to add. The headphone outs are very simply designed with a resistor in the way of the full power of the amp. If you mess with the resistor it may well have a detrimental effect on the sound quality. 
   
  My advice would be if you are using orthos, try the headphone out and if you think it is lacking then try the speaker outs with an adapter. And with normal dynamics, they will either sound good or not. Impedance matching and the effects on headphones are too hard to predict. I was really surprised at how good my K701's sound out of vintage amps, and if I listened to the spec boy's I wouldn't have even bothered trying them. 
   
  This hobby is full of surprises, and logic is something that I stopped using a long time ago... In everyday life as well haha


----------



## 5aces

matttcg said:


> Grumpy...





*Stop multiple photo quoting on internet forums ?*


----------



## bce22

Well, I do agree that spoiler tags should be used more.  OCN took it pretty seriously within the last year and it really cleaned up the threads greatly.  Don't get me wrong I love the pictures, but I equally love the discussions, impressions and questions.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Kstuart,
> Most of the peeps on this thread really aren't bothered about specs. We all know that these old machines aren't designed specifically for headphones. And must of us use speakers with them anyhow. I like this thread because its an appreciation of a golden era of hifi, where the looks of the machines are as much of the appreciation as is the sound quality. We love looking at each others gear. We don't get bogged down with petty arguments of what amp has the best specs.. If it sounds good then that's all that matters.
> 
> PheanixG answered your question in a very comprehensive manner. There really isn't much to add. The headphone outs are very simply designed with a resistor in the way of the full power of the amp. If you mess with the resistor it may well have a detrimental effect on the sound quality.
> ...


 
  Well said. And to add, there are many, many impressions using various types of headphones. There are even impressions of using iems. I remember reading early in this thread of someone being very impressed with a pair of jh16 from a pioneer 1250. Even myself have posted impressions of my jh13 on various amps. People have extensively posted impressions with everything from low ohm denons to 600ohm beyers and every ortho both new and vintage in between. There's even some impressions involving stax cans. Questions are always welcomed here. But now it's venturing into borderline thread craping. There have been questions asked and answered more than once, but for reason you still are never satisfied. At some point you have to ask the question if vintage gear for you. If it's not, that's great. Many of us owns both vintage and modern gear. There are tons of alternatives on both sides.


----------



## Fearless1

All I know is I've looked at Skylab's 1980 about 50 times, then I look over at my  SX-980 and I get sad.


----------



## MattTCG

I've already got Moody's opinion but I'd also be interested in the groups well. I may have an opportunity to do a straight swap...my 1280 for a 1250 is similar very nice condition. Would you do it?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've already got Moody's opinion but I'd also be interested in the groups well. I may have an opportunity to do a straight swap...my 1280 for a 1250 is similar very nice condition. Would you do it?


 
  I havent heard either... So a heap full of salt required. 
   
  But if I could have either based on what little I know, I would probably go for the 1280. It was released the same year that the 1250 was discontinued and a year after the 1980 was released.. Reads like a magical period of design. I like the look of the 1280 a little more too..


----------



## MattTCG

I certainly like the look of the 1280 with the nice black meters and all, but I'll take a better sound signature ultimately. Lot's of guys on AK say that 1250 is a better design and that they prefer the sound of it over the 1280. In fact I've read quite a few post comparing the 1250 and the 1980. The 1980 always comes out on top but the 1250 seems to put up a pretty darn good fight. I don't read many post comparing the 1280 to the 1980 though. 
   
  Anyway, I was getting getting to do a recap and full restoration on the 1280 and call it end game. I just want to be sure that if I'm shelling out the money for the restore that I spend it on the best unit.


----------



## LugBug1

Also, why is the guy willing to do a straight swap? If the 1250 is better... I'd be a bit suspicious..


----------



## MattTCG

That's a good question. He posted on CL. I shoot him an email. He states that he'd be interested in trades. So I start naming the things I've got for trade, which really isn't much. I thought he might take some speakers and cash, but he didn't seem that interested in speakers. 
   
  So I mention that I have a Pioneer myself, 1280. He seems somewhat interested. Anyway it gets weirder. He offers to drive the 1250 over to my house for me to look it and listen to. Who does this? Maybe he wants to rob me...don't know.


----------



## Anavel0

That or, like earlier in this thread, believes the SX-**80 series to be sonically superior.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> That's a good question. He posted on CL. I shoot him an email. He states that he'd be interested in trades. So I start naming the things I've got for trade, which really isn't much. I thought he might take some speakers and cash, but he didn't seem that interested in speakers.
> 
> So I mention that I have a Pioneer myself, 1280. He seems somewhat interested. Anyway it gets weirder. He offers to drive the 1250 over to my house for me to look it and listen to. Who does this? Maybe he wants to rob me...don't know.


 
  Can't tell mate, he might be genuine. But it seems like a lot of trouble to take something over to your house if there is not something worthwhile for them..  If you had negotiated a price then yes. But you hadn't. Dunno.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I've already got Moody's opinion but I'd also be interested in the groups well. I may have an opportunity to do a straight swap...my 1280 for a 1250 is similar very nice condition. Would you do it?


 
  1280 = looks better
  1250 = better build quality, better shielding and bigger caps.
  1250 is my favorite Pioneer receiver over the 1280 and even the 1980...


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> I've already got Moody's opinion but I'd also be interested in the groups well. I may have an opportunity to do a straight swap...my 1280 for a 1250 is similar very nice condition. Would you do it?




Well, here is the tough part. The 1280 is the more valuable of the two, and yet the 1250 is if anything slightly better sounding, although personally I found them quite similar sounding. The 1250 is easier to have repaired if something catastrophic happens to the outputs. But if your swapper wants to sell his unit, he is for sure better off doing the trade. If you have absolutely no intent to sell, and both units are in equally good condition, it might be in your best interest as well, but you are getting a receiver that tends to sell for about 30-40% less, on average.


----------



## MattTCG

Great advice. And thanks Rob


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Great advice. And thanks Rob


 
  I would see if he would top up the 1250 with a bit of good ol' cash.


----------



## LugBug1

Was gonna say Matt, keep a can of Deoxit handy. Just in case he does get a bit dicey and try to make off with your 1280 and valuables.. Simply hold his eye lids open and spray (using the attached straw), to the centre of the eye ball. This should cause temporary blurring of his vision and a good amount of confusion. Giving you enough time to call the police. 
   
  Anyways.. 
   
  Just wanted stress how good recordings from the late 60's and early seventies sound through my vintage gear.. Last weekend I took a trip back through the Beatles back cat and I started from 1966 and got to bed at 4am.. This weekend I'm doing the Zep. ****ing hell they've never sounded this good. Dazed n Confused (this was one of my faves to play back in my band days) is amazing. Honestly they never sounded this good with my previous hp amps. Makes sense that the recordings were mixed for the hifi's of the day.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Was gonna say Matt, keep a can of Deoxit handy. Just in case he does get a bit dicey and try to make off with your 1280 and valuables.. Simply hold his eye lids open and spray (using the attached straw), to the centre of the eye ball. This should cause temporary blurring of his vision and a good amount of confusion. Giving you enough time to call the police.
> 
> Anyways..
> 
> *Just wanted stress how good recordings from the late 60's and early seventies sound through my vintage gear.. *Last weekend I took a trip back through the Beatles back cat and I started from 1966 and got to bed at 4am.. This weekend I'm doing the Zep. ****ing hell they've never sounded this good. Dazed n Confused (this was one of my faves to play back in my band days) is amazing. Honestly they never sounded this good with my previous hp amps. Makes sense that the recordings were mixed for the hifi's of the day.


 
   
  Yup, I agree. I have been listening to a lot of 70's prog like King Crimson and E.L.P. with mine.


----------



## LugBug1

JP Jones bass on Heartbreaker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Marvelous!! (lowly 2216b involved)


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> That's a good question. He posted on CL. I shoot him an email. He states that he'd be interested in trades. So I start naming the things I've got for trade, which really isn't much. I thought he might take some speakers and cash, but he didn't seem that interested in speakers.
> 
> So I mention that I have a Pioneer myself, 1280. He seems somewhat interested. Anyway it gets weirder. He offers to drive the 1250 over to my house for me to look it and listen to. Who does this? Maybe he wants to rob me...don't know.


 
   





 Upon reading this, being careful, I sat down my flute of French bubbly. _And nearly knocked it over anyway, when I read further..._


----------



## LugBug1

^^


----------



## MattTCG

As Moody and Trav can attest, I'm a hulking brute of a man...heavily muscled. I don't expect any trouble from visitors. Worst case I can sick the dog on him. He has no use of his hind legs and wets himself at the least amount of excitement, but for a mini datsun he's pretty ferocious.


----------



## LugBug1

lol!!!


----------



## parbaked

Found my multi meter and decided to test my '74 Pioneer SA-7100.
  After settling in for 10 minutes she leveled out at 8.6mV, which is well within spec! Not bad for near 40 years old.
  I'm starting to think that with the collectibility and cost to repair the monster receivers ($1000+ for a really good SX 1250) that the real bargains remain these low powered integrated amps. No lights, no meters, but really well thought out circuits and voiced for the Japanese market ie. balanced and refined, where good sound in a small room was more important than brute power.
  I'm even using the loudness function for low volume listening at night instead of headphones.
  Lastly the feel of the metal switches and the etched faceplates are so tactile.
  I can't believe how much money I saved on my office/vinyl rig by stumbling across this amp. (thrown in free when I bought a Rega RP1 for my Dad = good karma reward!). For less than the price of a decent phono stage, if lucky, one can get something more fun and engaging than most new gear.
  Cranking Sonny Rollins "Way Out West", nice!


----------



## moodyrn

Yes, there is real value in integrateds. And I haven't heard one that didn't sound at least really good yet. That pioneer looks real classy



Matt your right. That's the last thing he would want to do.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Yes, there is real value in integrateds. And I haven't heard one that didn't sound at least really good yet. That pioneer looks real classy


 
  The insides are equally nice.
  Relatively big 2 x 6,800uF caps and so well laid out and shielded:


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> Found my multi meter and decided to test my '74 Pioneer SA-7100.
> After settling in for 10 minutes she leveled out at 8.6mV, which is well within spec! Not bad for near 40 years old.
> I'm starting to think that with the collectibility and cost to repair the monster receivers ($1000+ for a really good SX 1250) that the real bargains remain these low powered integrated amps. No lights, no meters, but really well thought out circuits and voiced for the Japanese market ie. balanced and refined, where good sound in a small room was more important than brute power.
> I'm even using the loudness function for low volume listening at night instead of headphones.
> ...




I'm with you. Besides my Spec system, I have three integrated amp systems, two from Kenwood and one Pioneer. Have $200 in all three.........and they all are great headphone amps.


----------



## parbaked

I just thought of you earlier when I saw this listing.
  Baddest thing I've seen since you "stumbled" across your Spec rack.
  I still prefer more simple low powered gear, but this (or Spec) is what you want is you have big basement and some JBLs!
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARANTZ-SET-SD7-SC7-ST7-SM7-POWER-AMP-PREAMP-TUNER-CASSETTE-TAPE-/130963461277


----------



## Silent One

It's Catfish Friday! - um, that would be Deep-fried 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - is there any other way?! Just finished my bounty and no sooner than I pull up this thread, I'm left craving 'CL.' Y'all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ain't right! So... _on to the classifieds. _


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Yup, I agree. I have been listening to a lot of 70's prog like King Crimson and E.L.P. with mine.


 
  i as well.  A little larks tongue, close to the edge and welcome back my friends.  Got my eye on some nice prog JPN and UK vinyl.


----------



## analogsurviver

I had a good deal of great laugh about some remarks (ferocious datsun LOL ), nice pics, and one great restore job for Skylab's 1980. US and european 
  used markets are not comparable and although what can be seen here undoubtedly is tip of the iceberg, the size of the cars and receivers tend to be different on both shores of the pond.
   
  I am more into separates than integrated, more integrated + tuner than receiver. It simply is not possible to have a really quiet MC phono input within a receiver, there WILL be more hum intrusion than when the same circuit is housed within another enclosure with smaller and better shielded power transformer - and that enclosure can be placed reasonable distance from the power amp and hum emanating from its large power transformers. For all other purposes, receiver is 99.9.........9 equivalent of integrated or even separates in real life. At savings less box(es) approach allows.
   
  I'm afraid the vintage cat is out of the sack : http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20082026-47/how-can-30-year-old-receivers-sound-better-than-new-ones/  So anyone interested in getting a good  at least decent price better hurry before superiority of vintage over modern receivers in pure sheer SQ becomes the topic among every sparrow in town. Same amount of $ in 1980 is due to inflation NOT the same amount in 2013 - add all the "they force it down your throath" pc & i-whatever compatibility that has to be crammed in nowadays and result can not be any different than described in the link above.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> i as well.  A little larks tongue, close to the edge and welcome back my friends.  Got my eye on some nice prog JPN and UK vinyl.


 
  Besides the usual suspects of the genre we seem to enjoy, here one of the best prog bands ever from my neighbouring country - enjoy :
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwFRZuF1QPE
   
  It is interesting to compare the differences in performance with those on original LP that introduced me to Premiata Forneria Marconi in early /mid 70s, the mythical Per Un Amico : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDmzO4EOLZs some 40 years later. If you try "just a little bit harder", that LP is still , believe it or not, available sealed/NOS.


----------



## uzi

Damn you vintage nerds.
   
  At my first meet, I made the mistake of plugging my HD650s into a... I think it was a Pioneer SX-980.  Even with the Burson Soloist and the Bottlehead Crack+Speedball, I'm still thinking of getting something vintage to play with.  Some local person (maybe a shop) seems to have decent condition vintage amps at pretty reasonable prices... a Pioneer SX-650 ($145), Sansui 9090db ($395) and a Marantz 2270 ($340) at least... possibly others.  (Heck with those first two, I'd be just like the old MattTCG with my HD650 and Mad Dogs before he went for the SX-1280.)  Hopefully I get to bring some gear with me and test those suckers out.
   
  Meanwhile, I checked craigslist locally for the SX-1980... there are 3 available at $2750, $2500 and $1400.  Juuuuust a bit out of my price range.


----------



## MattTCG

The 650 is overpriced no matter the condition. The 9090db is a good price if the condition is even decent. The 1980 at $1400...not bad.


----------



## Silent One

Let's see, the "TCG" in your username could represent Temptation, Craig's List, Goodies.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Good one!! 
   
  Try, "tremendous collector of gear."


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Was gonna say Matt, keep a can of Deoxit handy. Just in case he does get a bit dicey and try to make off with your 1280 and valuables.. Simply hold his eye lids open and spray (using the attached straw), to the centre of the eye ball. This should cause temporary blurring of his vision and a good amount of confusion. Giving you enough time to call the police.
> 
> Anyways..
> 
> Just wanted stress how good recordings from the late 60's and early seventies sound through my vintage gear.. Last weekend I took a trip back through the Beatles back cat and I started from 1966 and got to bed at 4am.. This weekend I'm doing the Zep. ****ing hell they've never sounded this good. Dazed n Confused (this was one of my faves to play back in my band days) is amazing. Honestly they never sounded this good with my previous hp amps. Makes sense that the recordings were mixed for the hifi's of the day.


 
   
  Actually, given the track record of Deoxit - it may make his sight better.


----------



## Skylab

One important note about the SX-1980. There are two groups of these - ones that have already had their power supply boards rebuilt, or ones that need to have them rebuilt. That's it. At the very minimum, you have to go into the purchase of a 1980 (given that its never a cheap acquisition to start with) knowing that you will need to have at least some work done, and heck if you are going to do that, might as well go straight to the full restore.

If you want to buy a TOTL Pioneer receiver that you won't need to have worked on quickly, the 1250 or 1280 are better choices.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> ^^ Good one!!
> 
> Try, "tremendous collector of gear."


 





   
  I had just awakened. Now, if this guess appeared later in the day...


----------



## MIKELAP

Looking into a Pionneer SX 636 does anybody know if this amp is good and  would it sound better with Senns hd 800 or Denons d-5000 it says in book output to headphone is 4-16 ohms this is a model made in late 70's the service manual was published in 1976. asking price is $80.00 was cleaned no scratching sounds exteriour and interiour pretty nice Thanks .


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Looking into a Pionneer SX 636 does anybody know if this amp is good and  would it sound better with Senns hd 800 or Denons d-5000 it says in book output to headphone is 4-16 ohms this is a model made in late 70's the service manual was published in 1976. asking price is $80.00 was cleaned no scratching sounds exteriour and interiour pretty nice Thanks .


 

 I have no experience with that model but with both my Pioneer systems my D2000's and D7000's sound lovely.  I do not have D5000 experience but............I'm sure it's close to what I do have headtime with.
   
  I'm not concerned about impedance matching - vintage makes my headphones sound amazing.  End of my story.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Looking into a Pionneer SX 636 does anybody know if this amp is good and  would it sound better with Senns hd 800 or Denons d-5000 it says in book output to headphone is 4-16 ohms this is a model made in late 70's the service manual was published in 1976. asking price is $80.00 was cleaned no scratching sounds exteriour and interiour pretty nice Thanks .


 
  That seems like a decent enough price if its in good condition. I've found that you really don't know until you try any vintage amp whether its going to be good or not with headphones. It all depends on the condition inside. It's always a gamble. The actual sound sig of the amp will please you I'm sure, but it's more a case of whether you get any hiss or hum. If the caps are all good and the pots and switches clean (you can of course do this yourself) then it may very well sound stella.  
   
  I would say that those two headphones will be ideal, if one doesn't sound so good then the other one probably will.


----------



## moodyrn

Well great news for me. I reported a short while ago FedEx denied my claim even though they were the ones who packaged item. Well it turns out the rep I spoke with gave me inaccurate info on that. A few days after speaking with her, I received a letter stating they needed a letter from the original shipper transferring ownership of the claim to me.

I got that emailed over on Monday, and just received a check in the mail paying my full claim plus shipping fees.


----------



## uzi

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> The 650 is overpriced no matter the condition. The 9090db is a good price if the condition is even decent. The 1980 at $1400...not bad.


 
  Thanks for the tips... I'll have to look into that 9090db.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey that's awesome Moody. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've been very fortunate and despite selling and buying over 130 items here on head-fi, I've only had to deal with one damage issue.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice one Moody, happy ending!


----------



## Skylab

That's awesome, Moody. Now the real question...whatcha gonna go buy?


----------



## moodyrn

This only my second. The first was few years ago. The first guy even purchased insurance, but refused to file a claim because it wasn'tworth his time. It's funny now, but wasn't then. Well that guy is now banned for screwing over other buyers here on headfi.

Joel on the other hand was the complete opposite and went out of his way to help me with gathering all the info I needed. He ended up investing just as much of his time as I did. I can't thank him enough for that.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow ipad running slow today. I posted the above post a half hour ago.

Thanks guys. I just submitted enough for a new cabinet and to cover the cost of the sliders. I bought some from partsexpress since that are the only place I could find some that met the dimensions of the originals. But didn't think about the fact they were black and not brown. Those cost about 3.00 each. There's a seller on eBay who have some originals at 23.00 each. Ouch!!! 

I don't want to pay nearly that much for them, but may have no choice.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> I have no experience with that model but with both my Pioneer systems my D2000's and D7000's sound lovely.  I do not have D5000 experience but............I'm sure it's close to what I do have headtime with.
> 
> I'm not concerned about impedance matching - vintage makes my headphones sound amazing.  End of my story.


 
   
  Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> That seems like a decent enough price if its in good condition. I've found that you really don't know until you try any vintage amp whether its going to be good or not with headphones. It all depends on the condition inside. It's always a gamble. The actual sound sig of the amp will please you I'm sure, but it's more a case of whether you get any hiss or hum. If the caps are all good and the pots and switches clean (you can of course do this yourself) then it may very well sound stella.
> 
> I would say that those two headphones will be ideal, if one doesn't sound so good then the other one probably will.


 
  Thanks guys for your imput it appreciated will go tomorrow have a listen the guy guarantees it for a few months hope for the best .


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  A superb transfer of Per Un Amico was done by the Japanese CD label "King" back in late 80s early 90s when the master tapes were still reasonably fresh -  IMHO the best sounding version.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> A superb transfer of Per Un Amico was done by the Japanese CD label "King" back in late 80s early 90s when the master tapes were still reasonably fresh -  IMHO the best sounding version.


 
  Thank you for this info. 
   
  Suppose I suddenly bump into a classmate, ex-co worker, etc, with whom we have not met for a looooong time. Over some drink, talk always ends up something like this:
   
  The Other Guy/Gal : "Are you still on the needle ?"
  AS : "Shure !"
   
  So, very few CDs of originally analog recordings for me - only if absolutely unobtainium on vinyl or if price is too exhorbitant. But Japanese CD version of Per Un Amico will likely cause an itch that will need scratching...


----------



## palmfish

How did that music slip under my radar. 1972 huh? I can't classify it, but it makes me think of a fusion of ELO and Mike Oldfield...
I like it!


----------



## MattTCG

It's amazing all the music that flies under my radar. I pick up on lots new stuff my reading through the forums here.


----------



## palmfish

+1

The "What are you listening to..." thread is one of my favorites here. Ive discovered quite a lot of good music there.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> +1
> 
> The "What are you listening to..." thread is one of my favorites here. Ive discovered quite a lot of good music there.


 

 This................^


----------



## wotts

I've been finding new music lately when Pandora stations decide to go off the rails. Something odd comes along and I check to see what it is. I'll have take a peek at that thread.
   
  In other news, I've concluded my SX-1250 is sick. I hooked up my HE-6 for some listening and everything is distorted and scratchy. I had noticed it a little on the speakers, but it's gotten worse. Orignally, I thought I had a blown driver on the HPM-100s, but the 2265B played through them fine and worked beautifully with the HE-6. I'm thinking I'll have to send the 1250 out for repair this time.


----------



## Skylab

Wotts, I assume that you have done the full deoxit treatment already and that didn't help?


----------



## moodyrn

Well after reporting great news earlier about receiving my check from fedex, now the horrible news. I received my 2325 I bought from ebay that's supposed to have been completely overhauled. I normally don't buy vintage gear from ebay, but given their current buyer protection policy, it wasn't much of a risk. Well after receiving it, it's anything but overhauled.
   
  The only thing that has been done was a few caps replaced in the power supply,  a relay, and the output transistors were replaced on one side with some generic brand I've never heard of. They also look much older than the original transistors. So now both channels have mismatched transistors. There's also a low level hum. I checked the dc offset, and I'm getting 133mv on one side and ove 200mv on the other. So not only was this not overahauled, but this thing actually need to see a repair man.
   
  The seller really is not accepting responsibility for this. He keeps saying it's not his fault, and that he's the victim of being scammed by the one who he supposedly paid 600.00 to rebuild. And he really don't understand why I'm upset. And even if that's true, how do you pay someone 600.00 for work that you don't verify. and sell something as completely overhauled and not know for sure if it is. He even drives home the point in his description that this merely was not a restore kit that's floating around on ebay, but a completely overhaul. Now he claims to be a victim. 
   
  The only bad thing is, I have to wait until next Thursday before I can have this escalated to a full claim with ebay.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> +1
> 
> The "What are you listening to..." thread is one of my favorites here. Ive discovered quite a lot of good music there.


 
  What makes you want to check out some particular music that you find listed there ?
   
  I ask because just about every bit of music out there has someone who likes it, so virtually anything can be listed there.
   
  Back in the days when these vintage receivers were in use, one would listen to the local radio station, and the DJ would suddenly play something like "Mahavishnu Orchestra" and people would say What is that ?   Otherwise they would never even hear anything like that, because it was so different from the Rolling Stones, etc.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, Moody, that sucks. Very sorry to hear that. The good news is that while it have a hassle to deal with, eBay really does protect buyers these days.


----------



## MattTCG

+1 Moody...that's a tough one. Sorry for the trouble.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, I appreciate it. Now I just have to wait. Now the seller keeps sending my excuse messages. Even ask me to send the info to his repair guy to get it fix. If all I wanted was just a properly working 2325, I could have kept the one I had or gotten one from another seller. I paid for a completely restored one. Not just a working one. He's saying everything but, "I'll send you a return label so you can ship it back".


----------



## MattTCG

I'm still trying to decide what to do with my Marantz 2270...freebie. Can someone please qualify it's desire-ability and performance potential. I don't know much about the Marantz models. 
   
  thanks...


----------



## jasonb

The SX-750 turns my Q701 into a beast! +2 on the bass knob turns them into a whole different headphone. The bass sounds full and sounds very speaker-like to me. They also gain quite a bit of soundstage depth as well on this amp as compared to the E17 alone.


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> I'm still trying to decide what to do with my Marantz 2270...freebie. Can someone please qualify it's desire-ability and performance potential. I don't know much about the Marantz models.
> 
> thanks...




The 2270 could be $250-500 - all depends on condition, does it have the wood case, etc etc.




jasonb said:


> The SX-750 turns my Q701 into a beast! +2 on the bass knob turns them into a whole different headphone. The bass sounds full and sounds very speaker-like to me. They also gain quite a bit of soundstage depth as well on this amp as compared to the E17 alone.




Ah yes, the unsung hero of vintage amps...TONE CONTROLS.


----------



## MattTCG

No wood case on the 2270. Cosmetically it's an 8 out of 10. The power button is broken (missing). So maybe around $350?


----------



## wotts

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wotts, I assume that you have done the full deoxit treatment already and that didn't help?


 
   
  Yessir. I tried that first and it doesn't seem to be related to and of the controls. It's a distorted, hissing static noise.I might have the old man take a look before I look for a tech. He's pretty savvy and I learned my skills from him.
   
  Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Well after reporting great news earlier about receiving my check from fedex, now the horrible news. I received my 2325 I bought from ebay that's supposed to have been completely overhauled. I normally don't buy vintage gear from ebay, but given their current buyer protection policy, it wasn't much of a risk. Well after receiving it, it's anything but overhauled.
> 
> The only thing that has been done was a few caps replaced in the power supply,  a relay, and the output transistors were replaced on one side with some generic brand I've never heard of. They also look much older than the original transistors. So now both channels have mismatched transistors. There's also a low level hum. I checked the dc offset, and I'm getting 133mv on one side and ove 200mv on the other. So not only was this not overahauled, but this thing actually need to see a repair man.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's a real bummer man. I've been on the fence about buying from eBay, but the ones I see that are so minty, it's hard to resist. I hope it turns alright.


----------



## harrinj

Does anyone know if a 5.1 or 7.1 AV receiver would be a good way to get Quadraphonic to a Marantz 4400 or 4240? I have a laptop and this is about the only way I can think of to get 'quality' quad out of it. I have several Pink Floyd's in Discreet Quad FLAC that I'd love to hear in it's full glory. I'm looking into an Onkyo TX-NR717 7.1 AVR or an TX-NR509 5.1 AVR. if I use the pre-outs to the Quad Marantz would it send the correct signal to the Marantz? I've tried splitting the two fronts and rears into separate stereo tracks and using two DAC's to the Quad Marantz but that does not work... only the front's come out (and yes the power mode switch is set to 4-Channel) The speakers I am using are KEF 103/4 and B&O S45's (same Ohms) and I know I could hook up just 4 speakers to the Onkyo but I am not really wanting it for audio besides sending Quad to my Quad receiver, I want the Onkyo mainly for HDMI and composite Video. 

 I was not sure if I should have made a new thread for this question or post here however it involves vintage amps so idk. if I should not have asked here than please forgive me. 
[size=1.7em]  [/size]


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> Well after reporting great news earlier about receiving my check from fedex, now the horrible news. I received my 2325 I bought from ebay that's supposed to have been completely overhauled. I normally don't buy vintage gear from ebay, but given their current buyer protection policy, it wasn't much of a risk. Well after receiving it, it's anything but overhauled.
> 
> The only thing that has been done was a few caps replaced in the power supply,  a relay, and the output transistors were replaced on one side with some generic brand I've never heard of. They also look much older than the original transistors. So now both channels have mismatched transistors. There's also a low level hum. I checked the dc offset, and I'm getting 133mv on one side and ove 200mv on the other. So not only was this not overahauled, but this thing actually need to see a repair man.
> 
> ...


 
  I am sorry to hear that. The only saving grace is Ebay's buyer protection policy and although it means hassle, eventually buyer gets his money back.
   
  I have learned my lesson(s) - the hard way. Years ago, when it was not possible to pay with paypal from our country, other methods of payment did not provide any buyer protection. And then learned another rule :
   
*Condition of the item and the quality of packaging are INVERSELY proportional to the price paid.*
   
  It all depends what are you buying and who are you buying it from. Assume the story seller of your "corpus delicatess" is telling the truth and he really was a victim himself. My speciality is Technics an I will report how does it go with this brand - but in principle it should apply to everything else as well.
   
  1. You can opt to get a "fully restored" cosmetically X/10 unit. This is the option that carries the biggest risk - if the seller did not provide detailed pictures of the innards and at least output DC measurement photo with a multimeter. It can be anything from superb job to worse than you described your case. Paypal is your friend here, *NEVER* pay on ebay in any other way.
   
  2. You can opt for a cosmetically mint AND guaranteed for meeting specs unit from some place specialized for vintage gear - at some four times the normal going price. No risk - except for burning a large hole in your pocket.
   
  3. Sometimes a seller does not have a faintest clue what he/she is selling - and for example claim the item is defective because he/she has no means of testing it ( like no AC cord, no LP in case of a TT , etc ), just to protect him/herself from any issues the item might have. It can also mean seller is aware of the issues that are ( near to) impossible to rectify at anything like reasonable price and prefers to call it AS IS than honestly describing the issue(s)
   
  Here it branches into :
   
    3a: Absolutely mint unit, not used since very close to day one, as good as it gets for any stock unit of that vintage one can buy.
   
     trough MANY possibilities in between to
   
     3z : beat up cosmetics, electrically defective, after trials to repair it canibalized for at least some parts , etc.
   
  It goes beyond 3z level, our language has another _letter _*after *the z, the ž. 
   
  I did receive the same item bought multiple times in conditions anything like described above - and that rule above in bold is the statistical outcome. 
  I honestly do not know how Technics gear performs restored just to stock specs - I went for far above that level from my unit # 1 and never looked back. It is expensive, yes, way above the prices for restorations mentioned so far. BUT - when directly compared to 5 figure current gear and in the very worst case holding its own, in most coming about equal and anything but infrequently winning, it is the well worth the time and money.
   
  For me that means AS IS can be exactly the same as "fully restored to stock" - with a a sliiiiight difference in price.
   
  Depending on your level of expertise with ( vintage) electronics and/or your familiarity with good reputable restorers - act accordingly.
   
  But you can never say that vintage gear produces dull moments ! Some go to Vegas for gambling, some buy vintage online - your pick !


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I'm still trying to decide what to do with my Marantz 2270...freebie. Can someone please qualify it's desire-ability and performance potential. I don't know much about the Marantz models.
> 
> thanks...


 
  Its an early model from 1971-73 and was originally $600 thats quite high end for those days. I'd say its very collectable but the sound of the early Marantz is defo a matter of taste. 
   
   
  Moody, that really sucks. The seller should hold full responsibility if it wasn't fully restored and was claimed to be. I've bought a couple of vintage amps that were claimed to be in 'full working order' but were anything but. I've then had to sell them on telling the truth, 'for parts n spares'. These were only cheap amps but all the same I hate dishonesty from sellers.


----------



## Steve Eddy

FYI, what cost $600 in 1972, would cost $3,247.92 in 2012 dollars.

se


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> FYI, what cost $600 in 1972, would cost $3,247.92 in 2012 dollars.
> 
> se


 
  yup, suppose you could call that high end now..  (ish


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> FYI, what cost $600 in 1972, would cost $3,247.92 in 2012 dollars.
> 
> se


 
  Which only partly explains why today's < $1000 receivers are junk!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





parbaked said:


> Which only partly explains why most of today's <$2000 receivers are junk!


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> Which only partly explains why today's < $1000 receivers are junk!




That is not true. Technology and manufacturing have both gotten much less expensive over the last 30+ years.

I paid just over $900 for my Pioneer Elite SC-25 AVR in 2009. Besides all the bells and whistles it has that were unimaginable in the 70's (7.1 channels, room correction, digital conversion, etc.), it's highlight is a superb 140 WPC (into 2 channels) amplifier. 

It's also built like a tank (it weighs 40 lbs.).


----------



## MattTCG

Well, the sx-1250 deal never happened. No problem though. I'm quite happy with the 1280. It was just a little weird tbh. I call this guy about his 1250 and he offers to come by my house to let me listen to it. Just a little strange. He texted once yesterday and said that he would be by late afternoon, but he was a no show. Oh well, time to recap the 1280.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Well, the sx-1250 deal never happened. No problem though. I'm quite happy with the 1280. It was just a little weird tbh. I call this guy about his 1250 and he offers to come by my house to let me listen to it. Just a little strange. He texted once yesterday and said that he would be by late afternoon, but he was a no show. Oh well, time to recap the 1280.


 
  Are you sure he's not there in your garden. Watching you...


----------



## MIKELAP

Was talking yesterday about getting an SX636 but finally the today had you might say a little surprise he had an SX750 well that i know is a decent amp exteriour is very nice and it sounds great actually i did not think pioonneer sounded this good. With Senns hd800 it sounds very good plus i got a 3 month warranty on it all that for $100.00. At the price of gear these days $100.00 is not    
  much. Happy camper
                                                                                                                                                                               .


----------



## Oregonian

mikelap said:


> Was talking yesterday about getting an SX636 but finally the today had you might say a little surprise he had an SX750 well that i know is a decent amp exteriour is very nice and it sounds great actually i did not think pioonneer sounded this good. With Senns hd800 it sounds very good plus i got a 3 month warranty on it all that for $100.00. At the price of gear these days $100.00 is not
> much. Happy camper
> .




Congrats! Nice headphone stand. How about a pic of it by itself? Did you make it?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Was talking yesterday about getting an SX636 but finally the today had you might say a little surprise he had an SX750 well that i know is a decent amp exteriour is very nice and it sounds great actually i did not think pioonneer sounded this good. With Senns hd800 it sounds very good plus i got a 3 month warranty on it all that for $100.00. At the price of gear these days $100.00 is not
> much. Happy camper
> .


 
  Great stuff Mike, thats a good catch! Welcome to the sound of the 70's


----------



## MattTCG

Looks great Mike and congrats!! Enjoy...
   
  Let me know how it sounds with the hd800.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Congrats! Nice headphone stand. How about a pic of it by itself? Did you make it?


 
  Thanks ,found  a piece of driftwood shorten the drill bit  and varnished everything . cost maybe $20.00 does the job and its original i like it .


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Great stuff Mike, thats a good catch! Welcome to the sound of the 70's


 
  Thanks Lug Bug i would like to be in the 70's  again ,originating from the mid 50's a well ill go for some  Donna Summers to complete that trip back .


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Looks great Mike and congrats!! Enjoy...
> 
> Let me know how it sounds with the hd800.


 
  Well has soon as i put some volume on i was very surprise did not think it would sound this good with the Senns hd800 with the tone at off and high filter on plenty of bass nice and clean sounding using Burson Conductor DAC . nice soundstage also .Very nice sounding for that time period.compared  with the littledot mk3 with Essence STX DAC and the Pionneer sounds  cleaner more in your face kind of sound littledot sounds more from the back of the soudstage . Hope this help   I would like to add that 9 o'clock is plenty loud


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the impressions Mike. The hd800 is very amp picky so that says a lot about the 750.
   
  enjoy...


----------



## jasonb

mikelap said:


> Was talking yesterday about getting an SX636 but finally the today had you might say a little surprise he had an SX750 well that i know is a decent amp exteriour is very nice and it sounds great actually i did not think pioonneer sounded this good. With Senns hd800 it sounds very good plus i got a 3 month warranty on it all that for $100.00. At the price of gear these days $100.00 is not
> much. Happy camper
> .




Looks like mine. Glad you like it.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Thanks , ya i made it  a piece of driftwood  and drill and varnish . cost maybe $20.00 does the job and its original i like it .


 
  Nice! very creative.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> Nice! very creative.


 
  Thanks alot .


----------



## jasonb

So the SX-750 is a nice sounding piece of equipment, right?
   
  I'm really enjoying mine a lot.
  Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Thanks alot .


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> So the SX-750 is a nice sounding piece of equipment, right?
> 
> I'm really enjoying mine a lot.


 
  Like i said very surprised by the sound quality with the Senns with flat settings very wide soundstage wow.Listening to some Guns n Roses its sounds really good .Hope it last awhile.


----------



## djcarpentier

Just curious about everyone's opinion on the price of some gear. I've got a line on a very good condition Pioneer sx-1280 for $600. Does that sound like a decent deal? Going to be a headphone amp only for me.


----------



## ssrock64

How's the background noise level on the SX750 (for anyone who owns one to answer)?


----------



## jasonb

Dead silent with my T50rp and Q701. I gotta keep my smartphone away from it, but other than that it is truly dead silent.
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> How's the background noise level on the SX750 (for anyone who owns one to answer)?


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Dead silent with my T50rp and Q701. I gotta keep my smartphone away from it, but other than that it is truly dead silent.


 
  I might have to pick up the unit that's for sale at the local audio shop then, but I'm wary because the same guy sold me my exploding Dynaco gear last month.


----------



## jasonb

How much does he want for it?
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I might have to pick up the unit that's for sale at the local audio shop then, but I'm wary because the same guy sold me my exploding Dynaco gear last month.


----------



## gikigill

Alright guys, Sansui AU-9500 or AU907i
   
  I have landed a chance to buy either or both for pretty much the same price for each of them and both have been serviced and restored.
   
  I have seen the internals and they look clean, fresh capacitors and so on.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





gikigill said:


> Alright guys, Sansui AU-9500 or AU907i
> 
> I have landed a chance to buy either or both for pretty much the same price for each of them and both have been serviced and restored.
> 
> I have seen the internals and they look clean, fresh capacitors and so on.


 
   
  Did you mean AU-D907i? No Au-907i pops up on google search.
   
  AU-9500 will definitely warmer than later models, but Sansui always keep their amazing bass. So it all depends on your sound preference. People call AU-9500 musical, and later Sansui transparent. You have to decide yourself.


----------



## gikigill

Probably, it's the Alpha X.


----------



## Meewoo

Then it should be AU-A907i, and based on search, it's MOSFET.
   
  If I am in your shoes, I will definitely go after AU-a907i. It looks badass!!!!!!!!1
  
  Edit,
  BTW, it seems only for Japan market, which means it's normally a high-end stuff. 
   
  Edit again,
  find http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=476490


----------



## gikigill

Yup, that's the one. Pretty excited about it! 

So fellow vintage lovers should I take the plunge?


----------



## sling5s

So far this is the best I've ever heard: pioneer sx-737 with marantz sacd player with LCD-2.  It beat the best solid state and tube amps I'v had.  
  Man was Diana Krall's "girl in the other room" like she was in the room.  
It beat the violectric v200/v800 combo which was the best I've had.


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





djcarpentier said:


> Just curious about everyone's opinion on the price of some gear. I've got a line on a very good condition Pioneer sx-1280 for $600. Does that sound like a decent deal? Going to be a headphone amp only for me.


 
  Yep - That's a good price for a good piece of gear. A lot of people in this thread have it or it's siblings.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





sling5s said:


> So far this is the best I've ever heard: pioneer sx-737 with marantz sacd player with LCD-2.  It beat the best solid state and tube amps I'v had.
> Man was Diana Krall's "girl in the other room" like she was in the room.
> It beat the violectric v200/v800 combo which was the best I've had.


 
   
  Yep, Moody had one of the Marantz sacd players at the Atlanta meet. Along with the Sansui 9090db I was about as shocked hitting the play button as I've ever been.


----------



## Trav

Ditto


----------



## MattTCG

Get back to work Trav...


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





djcarpentier said:


> Just curious about everyone's opinion on the price of some gear. I've got a line on a very good condition Pioneer sx-1280 for $600. Does that sound like a decent deal? Going to be a headphone amp only for me.


 
  Are you going to be playing the radio tuner on it ?   If not, you might consider the equivalent Pioneer integrated amplifier (which IIRC is the 9800).
   
  Since the pretty lights on a receiver increase their value, then you pay more initially, but then can recoup your investment later if you decide to sell (assuming that the overall fashion trend for vintage items continues).
   
  In fact, in my case, I realized that I am actually only using a DAC (with a relatively good output voltage), and so I don't even need a preamplifier, so I am not researching vintage power amplifiers to use between my DAC and my headphones.


----------



## BearWant

Hi all,
   
  I'm back.  With another CL find and again looking for advice.  I'm sad to report the last deal (sx-950 and HPM-100) you guys advised me to run, and I drug my feet contemplating whether I could afford and missed out on the opportunity.  Lesson learned.
   
  Anywho, I come with a listing I just discovered for a technics 5760 a monster with 160 wpc.  The seller is asking $240.  He stated that he is the only owner and it is in very good condition.  He said it has been in storage for a bit, but did work when he put it in.  He is willing to hook it up for me to audition.  What are thoughts on TOTL technics in reading around I've seen mixed responses.  Even more difficult, it seems like a fairly rare unit, so its hard to ascertain what would be a reasonable price.  Along with that it may be a hard sell if I ever did want to move on.
   
  Thanks again everyone!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





djcarpentier said:


> Just curious about everyone's opinion on the price of some gear. I've got a line on a very good condition Pioneer sx-1280 for $600. Does that sound like a decent deal? Going to be a headphone amp only for me.


 
   
  It's certainly on the high end for a local sale. It's always great to score a local sale where no potential damage hangs over the deal like a black cloud. If it's near mint, then $500 would be good on a local sale. If it's been recapped or restore then $600 is a great deal.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> Yep, Moody had one of the Marantz sacd players at the Atlanta meet. Along with the Sansui 9090db I was about as shocked hitting the play button as I've ever been.




That sa8004 is pretty special, and It can be used as a dac giving it have both optical and coax inputs. But still trying to wrap my mind around how good my 9090db is. One of the best restore jobs I've seen. My friend thinks its right there with his 7000.00 lfd amp. I reached out to the seller this weekend to ask for the contact info of the guy who worked on it so I can have my 907 restored.

He replied he was the one who did it. He's a retired electronic engineer. He completely gutted it and rebuilt it from the ground up including diodes, caps and resistors. I was immediately excited till he said it was his last great project and he's not interest in doing any more restorations. 

He must have been pretty sucessful. His house is at least 4000sq ft sitting on top of a mountain. The guy is really talented. As good as the sacd was, you were hearing more of the sansui. No other amp I have or owned never sounded like that on that player. It's only bested by the 500c which was restored by a legend who's sadly no longer with us. It may be the best sounding 500c in existence. Of course these two amps are never going nowhere.


----------



## MattTCG

Was that a Marantz 8004 or 8400?


----------



## moodyrn

8004


----------



## joseph69

Just found my old Fischer CA-880 integrated stereo amplifier, if anyone is interested in purchasing this PM me, thanks.
  Sorry for interrupting this thread.


----------



## Oregonian

joseph69 said:


> Just found my old Fischer CA-880 integrated stereo amplifier, if anyone is interested in purchasing this PM me, thanks.
> Sorry for interrupting this thread.




Joseph you must know by now that we require pics...........


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bearwant said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm back.  With another CL find and again looking for advice.  I'm sad to report the last deal (sx-950 and HPM-100) you guys advised me to run, and I drug my feet contemplating whether I could afford and missed out on the opportunity.  Lesson learned.
> 
> ...


 

 OK, I have Technics 5760.
  I didn't follow this item on epay, so I don't know it's fair price. I got mine for $100 with some issues, I would say counter offer $140, or maximum $160. And like you said, it hard to move this unit if you don't like it. So make sure you audition it before you move.
  It's a 160wpc beast, but it was built cheaper than major brands in the same era. I can't comment on components, but case was thinner and buttons and knobs feel plasticy. It has a very heavy transformer, but it's not toroidal if my memory is correct.
  Sound, it has a sound close to later Pioneer models, neutral (if you want to call it), but doesn't have Pionny's airy and soundstage. To me, it does nothing wrong but doesn't do anything special either. It's like a pure water without any taste. I am not saying it's unlikable, you may like it. So it's your call, check it or not.


----------



## jasonb

Bass impact on my T50rp with this SX-750 is beastly. Very fast and snappy. +1 on the treble knob also gives them just the right amount of top end and sparkle.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





djcarpentier said:


> Just curious about everyone's opinion on the price of some gear. I've got a line on a very good condition Pioneer sx-1280 for $600. Does that sound like a decent deal? Going to be a headphone amp only for me.


 
   
  SX1280 (perfect working condition ofcos) for $600 is a deal i'd run to get without a 2nd thought! that was the price a few years back when i just started getting on this vintage amp kick. now its fetching $900 locally - an appreciation of 33%! not too shabby i'd say for theres not many hobbies that gives immense pleasure, pride of ownership & make money at the sametime! go get it before its sold. im betting the SX1280 will sound great with alot of cans esp of the high ohm variety.
   
  on another note, i was planning "celebrate" my return to vintage gear with a Fisher 400 receiver but alas it was not to be (yet) as it arrived DOA - shipping damage am fraid. 1 of the tall metal thingys (choke i think) was badly bent so much so i could get no sound output. now its sitting at the local repair center awaiting its time for the tech to do a diagnosis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. am hoping parts are easily available & its not a major repair.


----------



## MattTCG

My sx-1280 is the best amp ever heard with ortho hp's. It takes my he-4 to a completely different level than the lyr with nice tubes which really impressed me.


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> How much does he want for it?


 
  Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier; I haven't found myself on much more than once a day recently. He wants about $160, but it comes with another piece of equipment that I forgot to get the model number off of. It might be an old tape deck or something, but it was Pioneer and the finish and size matched the SX750.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> on another note, i was planning "celebrate" my return to vintage gear with a Fisher 400 receiver but alas it was not to be (yet) as it arrived DOA - shipping damage am fraid. 1 of the tall metal thingys (choke i think) was badly bent so much so i could get no sound output. now its sitting at the local repair center awaiting its time for the tech to do a diagnosis
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh man I'm really sorry to hear that. The Fisher 400 is sweet. I hope that it gets resurrected!


----------



## jasonb

Sounds like a fair price for a 750 in good shape. I really lucked out on mine.
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier; I haven't found myself on much more than once a day recently. He wants about $160, but it comes with another piece of equipment that I forgot to get the model number off of. It might be an old tape deck or something, but it was Pioneer and the finish and size matched the SX750.


----------



## joseph69

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Joseph you must know by now that we require pics...........


 
  Yeah, i thought about that after I posted.
  Anyway, after I spent some time cleaning it up (cosmetically), I plugged my MBP with the Modi in and all I heard was the beat to the music, but in a crackling form, so I guess the unit needs to be cleaned inside deoxidized and so on. I have four amps, so I'm not interested in taking this on. This unit is in very nice shape (cosmetically),and is receiving signals to the left and right channels ( at least out of the headphone out. If anyone is interested in getting this back to working order, I will gladly take the time to ship it to them (at their cost), instead of throwing this unit away, because I can't see doing that to it at all, so if anybody wants it (as in free), let me know ASAP, or I will throw it away. By the way I would think this is approximatley 30 years old, and it was also made in Japan, so let me know and 1st PM can have it if they would like.
  Like I said this unit is in very, very nice condition!


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Oh man I'm really sorry to hear that. The Fisher 400 is sweet. I hope that it gets resurrected!


 
   
  thxs Rob i hope they do a Jesus on me too! i was pretty choked when i can see all them lovely glass light up with no sound!!!! lets see if the sound gods still likes me.


----------



## kstuart

So, I found out why there are no sweet deals on my local Craigslist.   I usually get listings from a forwarding service (via Yahoo).
   
  Today, I looked at the electronics section directly on craigslist site - and there were several more of those $400 Sansui, Pioneer, etc. vintage listings - and on the craigslist site, it identifies those listings as "by dealer" instead of "by owner".    There is never anything prior to about 1995 at any thrift shop here (and I've been to lots of them for a few years, always checking the electronics).   So, clearly this dealer guy snatches up anything, tests it (as he mentions in his listings), and puts it out for sale himself at dealer prices.   That's fine - but it explains why there is never any " found a SX-1980 for $10 " stories from these here parts...
   
  ... it does make it slightly more annoying that any vintage gear that I google (to find out more about it), always has one of those Google results ( " Hey, is a Krell any good - just got one from $20 at the local thrift ? " )...


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> So, I found out why there are no sweet deals on my local Craigslist.   I usually get listings from a forwarding service (via Yahoo).
> 
> Today, I looked at the electronics section directly on craigslist site - and there were several more of those $400 Sansui, Pioneer, etc. vintage listings - and on the craigslist site, it identifies those listings as "by dealer" instead of "by owner".    There is never anything prior to about 1995 at any thrift shop here (and I've been to lots of them for a few years, always checking the electronics).   So, clearly this dealer guy snatches up anything, tests it (as he mentions in his listings), and puts it out for sale himself at dealer prices.   That's fine - but it explains why there is never any " found a SX-1980 for $10 " stories from these here parts...
> 
> ... it does make it slightly more annoying that any vintage gear that I google (to find out more about it), always has one of those Google results ( " Hey, is a Krell any good - just got one from $20 at the local thrift ? " )...


 
  There is ALWAYS one of 'those' people in any populated area. it is very annoying extremely annoying.


----------



## claybum

Most thrift stores are hip to the value of vintage gear. Goodwill and St Vincent both have online auctions. Any good donation usually ends up for sale online. The craigslist sellers I know score most of their gear at estate sales.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





claybum said:


> Most thrift stores are hip to the value of vintage gear. Goodwill and St Vincent both have online auctions. Any good donation usually ends up for sale online. The craigslist sellers I know score most of their gear at estate sales.


 
  true. I've never seen anything in Goodwill's/st. vincents before.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> So, I found out why there are no sweet deals on my local Craigslist.   I usually get listings from a forwarding service (via Yahoo).
> 
> Today, I looked at the electronics section directly on craigslist site - and there were several more of those $400 Sansui, Pioneer, etc. vintage listings - and on the craigslist site, it identifies those listings as "by dealer" instead of "by owner".    There is never anything prior to about 1995 at any thrift shop here (and I've been to lots of them for a few years, always checking the electronics).   So, clearly this dealer guy snatches up anything, tests it (as he mentions in his listings), and puts it out for sale himself at dealer prices.   That's fine - but it explains why there is never any " found a SX-1980 for $10 " stories from these here parts...
> 
> ... it does make it slightly more annoying that any vintage gear that I google (to find out more about it), always has one of those Google results ( " Hey, is a Krell any good - just got one from $20 at the local thrift ? " )...


 
   
  Krell is very good (especially the old ksa amps) - what model is it?


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Hi Can you guide me for what model of vintage receiver woiuld be good for my new pair of Grado SR-225i ?
  Thank you
  Daniel


----------



## MattTCG

You'll need to see what's available locally. That might be easier. Some good places to start are: Pioneer, Sansui and Marantz. The period of the 70's is considered pretty darn good. Buying locally will allow you to take your headphones and go check out how the receiver sounds with them. Plus you don't have to deal with the expense of shipping. 
   
  See what's local and then post back for some help.


----------



## jasonb

Check local flea markets, Goodwill/thrift stores, and yard/estate sales. I think those are the best places to find a good deal. People that sell them online seem to know that they are valuable and want more for them. Meanwhile I found my SX-750 at a local flea market in great cosmetic shape and perfect working condition for only $40. It just needed a little cleaning and a little DeoxIT.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Check local flea markets, Goodwill/thrift stores, and yard/estate sales. I think those are the best places to find a good deal. People that sell them online seem to know that they are valuable and want more for them. Meanwhile I found my SX-750 at a local flea market in great cosmetic shape and perfect working condition for only $40. It just needed a little cleaning and a little DeoxIT.


 
   
  I got an SX 750 at GW for $13


----------



## MattTCG

Dang...I never see anything like that at my local GW, TS ect.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Dang...I never see anything like that at my local GW, TS ect.


 
   
  I cleaned it up, re-lamped it, treated with deoxit, and sold for $80.


----------



## MattTCG

Ah!! The quick flip for cash. I like it!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Ah!! The quick flip for cash. I like it!!


 
   
  Yes, unless something really wows me - I just fix them up (a hobby of mine) and sell.  It is fun bringing new life to old pieces and making a little $ on the side.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> Hi Can you guide me for what model of vintage receiver woiuld be good for my new pair of Grado SR-225i ?
> Thank you
> Daniel


 
  We would need more information to guide you to the best choice:
   
  * Is the visual appearance of the unit important ?  (If yes, then the premium price of Marantz would be worthwhile to you, otherwise not.)
  * Do you listen to FM radio ?  (If not, then an "integrated amplifier" that does not have a tuner might be a more cost-effective choice.  But if the answer to the appearance question was "yes", then you might want a receiver just for the "look".)
  * Do you listen to rock and pop - or do you favor folk, jazz and/or classical ?


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, I'll ask. What are some of the better non-tuner units out there?


----------



## zibra

I got arman Kardon PM655vxi and still would like to know ow does it compare to some nice oter models. It as great power amp but pre isnt so good. Anyway Im very pleased ow it sounds wit E5LE. Ill try to make it sing as it wasnt very costly. Maybe ill try someting like Sansui 717 later.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Okay, I'll ask. What are some of the better non-tuner units out there?




I'll bite. I have two Kenwood KA-5700 integrateds and a Pioneer SA-7500MKII integrated. All three sound great, have ample bass and of course look great. The Kenwoods have meters.......


----------



## kstuart

From my research, it would seem that the Pioneer SX-__*N*0 receivers correspond to Pioneer SA-_*N*00 integrated amps.
   
  So the 7500, 8500 and 9500 integrated amps would have similar circuits to 750, 1050, 1250 receivers (the integrated amps always have 9x00 as the TOTL, so 9500, 9800 and 9900 all command pretty good prices).
   
  I have not done a detailed and exhaustive spec-for-spec comparison, so it is possible that 1250 may be more powerful than 9500, etc...
   
  9100 is earlier, just as the 1010 is, so it would have earlier, warmer sound.


----------



## kstuart

Pioneer SA-9100:
   

   
  Pioneer SA-9800:
   

   
  Sansui AU-919 (1979):


----------



## palmfish

In your picture above, that looks like an SA-9500, not a 9800.
   
  SA-9800 had blue flouroscan meters...


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





zibra said:


> i would guess since you ave ortodynamic eadpones you could easily live wit eadpone out from vintage amp. i tried first of all at my eadpone amp wic normally could ave  about 5 om output impedance. i inreased it by adding resistors up to 150 om. at tat value sound was quite bad BUT because it took a lot of power of eadamp.
> now i ave arman kardon pm655vxi for start. tere were 2x 470om resistors. i replaced it by 2 x 2x56om mundorf mr5 resistors because i ad suc and tere was place to mount it. of course  now teres muc louder because tat amp isnt weak i noticed sligtly more neutral sound. original resistors look very similiar to kiwame and as tese are carbon ones it could ave someting to do on sound signature. so general for ortodynamic eadpones i see very minor influence of resistor in pat and wouldnt mind to connect it straigt into speaker taps. in many cases we could get ridiculously loud sound if amp is very powerful.
> btw as anyone eard pm655vxi wit eadpones and could give me idea wat can i expect from oter models? im begineer on tat area and would like to ear any opinion
> 
> very sorry for gramatic and soso sentences. very tired and my keyboard doesnt work properly.


 
  Hi I have the same receiver pm655vxi, whit the resistor changes you did perform, what headphone did you try? I have Grado SR-225i and just feel that I have to put the sound level knob too high for nothing to get a good sound


----------



## Skylab

palmfish said:


> In your picture above, that looks like an SA-9500, not a 9800.
> 
> SA-9800 had blue flouroscan meters...




Yup, that's the 9800, and there was a fully restored/recapped one for sale on AK a month or so ago that I am still mad at myself for not buying.


----------



## MattTCG

Can someone who has owned the Sansui model 8 receiver please comment on it? Especially compared to the 9090 if possible. 
   
  thanks...


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Can someone who has owned the Sansui model 8 receiver please comment on it? Especially compared to the 9090 if possible.
> 
> thanks...


 
  You're more likely to get that info by searching AudioKarma's Sansui forum.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> From my research, it would seem that the Pioneer SX-__*N*0 receivers correspond to Pioneer SA-_*N*00 integrated amps.
> 
> So the 7500, 8500 and 9500 integrated amps would have similar circuits to 750, 1050, 1250 receivers (the integrated amps always have 9x00 as the TOTL, so 9500, 9800 and 9900 all command pretty good prices).
> 
> ...


 
  for what it's worth, my SA9800 sounds nearly identical to my SX1080


----------



## MIKELAP

Would anybody know what kind of power (WATTS)are we talking about when headphone are plugged into headphone jack thats from a Pioneer SX750


----------



## ssrock64

Stupid Question: Is there less electrical wear and tear on a standalone pre-amp/receiver over time than there is for an integrated or a standalone speaker amp, since the latter categories need to put out a lot more power? I'm worried about by light little PAT-4, because I have no idea when it was last serviced.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Stupid Question: Is there less electrical wear and tear on a standalone pre-amp/receiver over time than there is for an integrated or a standalone speaker amp, since the latter categories need to put out a lot more power? I'm worried about by light little PAT-4, because I have no idea when it was last serviced.


 
  Electrical wear is largely two different factors => 1) number of hours turned on, and 2) number of times turned on and off.  For some components, the second factor is actually more important, because you have heating up and cooling off (which produces more wear and tear than just being on).  For example, light bulbs and computer hard drives both are largely the second factor - they last longer if you don't turn them off very often.
   
  (Of course, saving energy is dependent on turning things off a lot, which can be at odds with longevity.)
   
  Since a vacuum tube has similarity to a light bulb, they might do better left on.   However, I have no idea whether this is true of transistors, capacitors, resistors, etc.


----------



## captouch

matttcg said:


> Can someone who has owned the Sansui model 8 receiver please comment on it? Especially compared to the 9090 if possible.
> 
> thanks...




I have the Eight Deluxe, QR-6500, and had the 7070. Eight Deluxe and 7070 are similar power and sounded more alike than different - the QR-6500 is cap coupled and I think has a softer, less detailed sound, though still very nice.

The 8D may be more punchy down low than the 7070 - huge caps in the 8D. But 9090 is two steps up the x0x0 line and has quite a bit more power than the 8D, so not sure how they'd compare. The x0x0 has the nice power meters, but build quality and details on the single digits are outstanding. 

Note, the Eight and 7000 have a somewhat older amp design vs the Six, Seven, and Eight Deluxe, so can't say how close a Eight and Eight Deluxe are in sound.

Agree, that a similar question in the Sansui forum on AK will yield more answers and hopefully a direct comparison.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I love the look of that amp. There was a one came up recently on fleabay but it at a few knobs missing otherwise I would have went for it. Much nicer looking than the 1050.
> 
> Good luck with the recap and keep us informed how it goes.


 
   
  I finished the recap over the course of 3 days - it went pretty smoothly, though after about 15-20hrs of trouble free operation post-recap, I blew a output transistor on one channel. No idea whether it was related to the recap or coincidental, but after replacing the output transistors, it's been OK since (knock on wood).
   
  Before:

   
  After:

   
  Old caps:


----------



## harrinj

Getting a Marantz 4400 Thursday  The AM antenna is missing and that's about all that's wrong with it, the scope is working etc.


----------



## joehalo




----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





captouch said:


> I finished the recap over the course of 3 days - it went pretty smoothly, though after about 15-20hrs of trouble free operation post-recap, I blew a output transistor on one channel. No idea whether it was related to the recap or coincidental, but after replacing the output transistors, it's been OK since (knock on wood).


 
  Nice work. Is there much difference in sound? I've read caps need a good run in before they settle in.
   
  Quote: 





joehalo said:


>


 
  Very cozy listening space. Lookin good!


----------



## MIKELAP

Would anybody know what kind of power (WATTS)are we talking about when headphone are plugged into headphone jack thats from a Pioneer SX750 its 50 watts per channel in 8 ohms with speakers would you see anything on spec sheet that say something .Thanks


----------



## Skylab

Mike, no one can answer that question unless you specify the impedance of the headphone you are inquiring about


----------



## zibra

Quote: 





pixelsphotopro said:


> Hi I have the same receiver pm655vxi, whit the resistor changes you did perform, what headphone did you try? I have Grado SR-225i and just feel that I have to put the sound level knob too high for nothing to get a good sound


 
  You mean its too loud at very low volume? you need to replace original 470om resistors for bigger ones. Not sure is it wot for Grado as tese are dynamic, low impedance eadpones.
  I use ifiman E5LE, ortodynamic.
   
  Again sorry for grammar - keyboard not working and some letters are missing.


----------



## captouch

lugbug1 said:


> Nice work. Is there much difference in sound? I've read caps need a good run in before they settle in.




Not night and day, but I didn't want to change the sound much either, which is why I stuck with electrolytics in some spots in the signal path vs going all film caps. But I'd say a little clearer/more detail. Like you said, sound may change a bit after some cap run-in, but very pleased with the sound.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Mike, no one can answer that question unless you specify the impedance of the headphone you are inquiring about


 
  Thanks for the tip  either the Senns hd 800 300 ohms or the 25 ohms denons d-5000 because someone was asking me what was the power rating of the headphone jack i know its probably alot because 10 o'clock is very loud with the Senns hd800. Thanks.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Okay, I'll ask. What are some of the better non-tuner units out there?


 
  Pioneer SA 7100/8100/9100.
  1. Big transformers and caps for their relatively low power (20/40/60 wpc) compared to the comparable receivers.
  2. Better build quality and more simple layout than the later models.
  3. Thick, etched faceplates!
  4. Same excellent phono equalizer in all models.
  5. Run cool, look sweet, sound great...
   
  I vote early 90s PIONEER!


----------



## kstuart

I am reading the thread from the beginning, with the idea of finding more talk about using vintage equipment with headphones, and when I came across this post, I realized that it was "*The Beginning*"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 :
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Well, Scottiebabie, I thank you most sincerely for giving me a nudge on the Pioneer SX-1250.  I picked it up at lunch, and let me tell you, it was lust at first sight, but really and truly LOVE at first LISTEN.  The thing sounds absolutely AMAZING.  I am really impressed.  Not that it would really have an excuse to sound bad - I have never before seen a receiver that was built quite like this.  Lifting it is VERY difficult.  I have also never seen a toroidal transformer as big as this one in my life, and I have seen a LOT of gear.  It's really astonishing.  Listened for a bit with both the Senn HD800 and the LCD-2, and it drove both at a level that you would have to spend much more than $1K to get from a dedicated headphone amp.  For the $600 I paid, it's just ridiculous.  And the tuner is absolutely outstanding.
> 
> Now, for the fun part:


----------



## parbaked

Pioneer porn:


----------



## jasonb

Damn, that 1250 is sexy. I just ordered a JDS Labs ODAC to use with my 750. Should be here by the weekend. I'm excited.


----------



## bce22

i gotta tell you the sansui au-517 is a pretty sweet integrated.  bought one on the bay within the last two weeks for $200 shipped in full operation and more than decent cosmetic shape.
   
  this is less than 1/2 the price of the au-717 for one or two less features and 20watts.  This is a serious sweetspot item!


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Damn, that 1250 is sexy. I just ordered a JDS Labs ODAC to use with my 750. Should be here by the weekend. I'm excited.


 
  jasonb  im wondering if you would know what is the watt output from the headphone jack with  Senns hd800 300 ohms on the SX750. My answer would be alot.!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> i gotta tell you the sansui au-517 is a pretty sweet integrated.  bought one on the bay within the last two weeks for $200 shipped in full operation and more than decent cosmetic shape.
> 
> this is less than 1/2 the price of the au-717 for one or two less features and 20watts.  This is a serious sweetspot item!


 
  Nice, and your 65 wpc is plenty (for me anyway)!


----------



## scottiebabie

when i had to move to another city for work, i sold all my vintage amps & the Sansui AU-517 is the only one i kept. love its looks, love its build, love its power reserves, love it as my headamp as well. but i gotta honest and admit that as an amp, its easily outclassed by the modern stuff i have now. 
   
  that said, for the price i picked it up for, nothing ive heard touches it. i love ma Sansuis


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> when i had to move to another city for work, i sold all my vintage amps & the Sansui AU-517 is the only one i kept. love its looks, love its build, love its power reserves, love it as my headamp as well. but i gotta honest and admit that as an amp, its easily outclassed by the modern stuff i have now.
> 
> that said, for the price i picked it up for, nothing ive heard touches it. i love ma Sansuis


 
  i know this is a vintage thread so PM me if you feel its more appropriate but what modern stuff exactly?  Im just interested.  Also was your 517 restored?  Mine isnt but with a $200 cost of entry the recap wont make the total price exorbinant by any means and should make it sound even better.
   
  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the 517 is anything close to "the best ever", but when you take into account what it is, what it can be, its price and availabilty its seriously hard not to make it close to a #1 recommendation for vintage newbies who dont need ridiulous power requirements and / or a tuner.


----------



## jasonb

No idea. All I know is that using my E17 as my source, 9 o'clock on the volume knob is as high as I can go.
  Quote: 





mikelap said:


> jasonb  im wondering if you would know what is the watt output from the headphone jack with  Senns hd800 300 ohms on the SX750. My answer would be alot.!


----------



## Meewoo

Bce22, that Scottie is the one who first brought Sansui Au-517 into this thread. He praised this unit and I believe his modern stuff can triumph Sansui. His modern amp can be seen in "vintage speaker" thread.


----------



## bce22

Thanks meewoo,
   
  for the record i am sitting on my back deck listening to Pink Floyd Animals in 24 bit flac through my luxman r-1120 and he-500s as we speak!  Love Luxman!
   
  It sounds as beatiful as it looks (such a warm signature), and it looks stunning.


----------



## MusicNutt

I just bought a Sansui 771 and was looking here to get it restored. Has anyone here dealt with them? Looking at ~$550 for full-recap, output mod and current balance. Sound nuts?


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> No idea. All I know is that using my E17 as my source, 9 o'clock on the volume knob is as high as I can go.


 
  Same here with Burson Conductors as dac


----------



## Skylab

kstuart said:


> I am reading the thread from the beginning, with the idea of finding more talk about using vintage equipment with headphones, and when I came across this post, I realized that it was "*The Beginning*"   :




Yep it sure was for me! Scottie talked me into that SX-1250 and the rest was history 

Although in fairness what got me thinking about it was the Fisher KX-100 tube amp I had bought a little bit before that. Still...nothing does it for me like the big Pioneers!




mikelap said:


> Thanks for the tip  either the Senns hd 800 300 ohms or the 25 ohms denons d-5000 because someone was asking me what was the power rating of the headphone jack i know its probably alot because 10 o'clock is very loud with the Senns hd800. Thanks.




VERY roughly, probably 7 watts into the Denons and maybe 2 into the Senns? In any case, given how sensitive those headphones are, FAR more than you'd ever need


----------



## jasonb

I really cannot decide which one of my headphones I prefer. The SX-750 makes them both sound so good. +2 on the bass knob makes my Q701 sound great, while +1 or 2 on the treble makes my T50rp sound real good. I hope I get picked on the Alpha Dog tour, because that really might be a good mix of both.


----------



## jasonb

I thought that one of the benefits of a high output impedance was that the wattage didn't greatly vary depending on the impedance of the headphone? I figured with an output impedance of 150 ohms that the power to a headphone of 50 ohms wouldn't really vary much from a headphone with a 300 ohm impedance. 
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yep it sure was for me! Scottie talked me into that SX-1250 and the rest was history
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bce22

it definetly varies.  On the same amp it might be the difference between 10 and 2 o'clock. I think this whole impedence resistor in headphone out path deserves the senn veil emoticon.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





musicnutt said:


> I just bought a Sansui 771 and was looking here to get it restored. Has anyone here dealt with them? Looking at ~$550 for full-recap, output mod and current balance. Sound nuts?


 
   
  Sounds high to me.  Granted they are different beasts but even Craig for NOS Valves the preiminent Scott tube amp restorer wants less than that for his deluxe restore and upgrade service.  $100 less at that.
   
  Id post on the sansui sub forum on AK asking for recommendations for your area.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Damn, that 1250 is sexy. I just ordered a JDS Labs ODAC to use with my 750. Should be here by the weekend. I'm excited.


 
  I don't think that the ODAC is a good value any longer.
  You can get a Schiit Modi for $99 direct from schiit.com .
  (I am also uneasy about a device designed by someone who believes that everything sounds pretty much the same...)


----------



## palmfish

kstuart said:


> I don't think that the ODAC is a good value any longer.
> You can get a Schiit Modi for $99 direct from schiit.com .
> (I am also uneasy about a device designed by someone who believes that everything sounds pretty much the same...)




How is the $99 Modi a good value when you can get this for $30?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=230-120

BTW, I don't think the designer of the ODAC ever claimed that.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> when i had to move to another city for work, i sold all my vintage amps & the Sansui AU-517 is the only one i kept. love its looks, love its build, love its power reserves, love it as my headamp as well. but i gotta honest and admit that as an amp, its easily outclassed by the modern stuff i have now.
> 
> that said, for the price i picked it up for, nothing ive heard touches it. i love ma Sansuis


 
  As an AU-417 owner, I am curious about the "modern stuff" that you are now using instead - please list !  Thanks !


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It is a paraphrase.   I don't want to derail this thread in a discussion about his conceptual fallacies and propaganda techniques...


----------



## palmfish

Paraphrase: a restatement of a text or passage giving the meaning in another form, as for clearness; rewording."

You did not paraphrase. You stated your own incorrect interpretation.

Not derailing the thread, just keeping it honest.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> As an AU-417 owner, I am curious about the "modern stuff" that you are now using instead - please list !  Thanks !


 
   
   
  Check the head-fi vintage speaker thread for info on Scotties modern amp.  With that said, be prepared for numbers in the  thousands, rather tan hundreds.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yep it sure was for me! Scottie talked me into that SX-1250 and the rest was history


 
   
  naaaah Rob u really didnt need much pushin! me thinks u were already knee deep in lust & just need the final nudge as all! but it was & still is a fun ride isnt it??? and for what we get, its a bargoon!!!


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> i know this is a vintage thread so PM me if you feel its more appropriate but what modern stuff exactly?  Im just interested.  Also was your 517 restored?  Mine isnt but with a $200 cost of entry the recap wont make the total price exorbinant by any means and should make it sound even better.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the 517 is anything close to "the best ever", but when you take into account what it is, what it can be, its price and availabilty its seriously hard not to make it close to a #1 recommendation for vintage newbies who dont need ridiulous power requirements and / or a tuner.


 
   
  Quote: 





kstuart said:


> As an AU-417 owner, I am curious about the "modern stuff" that you are now using instead - please list !  Thanks !


 
   
  well as a headamp for the HD800 & T1, my modern (if one can really call 300b tube amps as that) Audio Space 300b integrated speaker amp seriously outperforms the sansui in air, sophistication & delicacy, depth, resolution, transparency, extension & ultimate hi fidelity. besides that, the high end bite (or harshness) that so often plagues both those cans are completely cured with still retaining the bright clarity that both those cans are famed for. also, bass is deep, tight, articulate & very organic as well. my Sansui AU-517 is just totally outclassed. that said, i dont think my Audio Space amp is close being as good on low Z cans eg. Grado PS500 & AT W1000X.
   
  as a speaker amp, my DK Design/LSA VS.1 mk3 Signature (yes it a mouthful i know) just pawns the Sansui in any & all categories esp in current reserves. the 65W AU-517 just cant compete in driving the hybrid mag planar speakers i had while i can barely turn it up past 1 o'clock. it wasnt just power reserves but the newer amp was just better in most everything.
   
  but.....the Sansui AU-517 cost me $50 & in that respect, its the best amp for the price bar none!


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> but.....the Sansui AU-517 cost me $50 & in that respect, its the best amp for the price bar none!


 
  I think this is the perspective that is sometimes lost in this wonderful thread.
  The best vintage stuff finds us, or we have history with it, and that adds to the value...


----------



## moodyrn

The sansui au 517 is a nice little amp. And a good buy for the money. I owned one for a while, and in no way will it compete with highend vintage or modern amps. It was one of the few non totl pieces I've ever owned and I would rank it last. That's not a bad thing. At the time when I owned it, I thought it competed with modern solid state amps in the 800.00-1000.00 range. So while it may be a midfi killer, it's not quiet what you would call a giant killer. That amp Scottie have is just on another level.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> ...but i gotta honest and admit that as an amp, its easily outclassed by the modern stuff i have now.


 
  Now that you have specified what you are referring to, I think you are talking about "apple and oranges".
   
  Those two items are "boutique high end" items.   This thread is about "vintage mass market" items, not "vintage high end" items.   It was already established early in this thread (by Skylab among others) that cost-no-object high end gear is still going to be a little better even than the SX-1980 or other TOTL mass market gear.
   
  Someone at AK once mentioned in the vintage Forum that the true best buy was used 1980s high end things (like Threshold, PS Audio, Carver, Krell, Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, etc).
   
  For that matter, it doesn't have to be 1980s - have you ever compared your modern amps to a perfectly restored McIntosh MC275 ?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





musicnutt said:


> I just bought a Sansui 771 and was looking here to get it restored. Has anyone here dealt with them? Looking at ~$550 for full-recap, output mod and current balance. Sound nuts?


 
  All depends on what condition you're 771 is in. It looks very good on the outside  How does it sound? Some amps really don't need to be recapped if they have lead a sheltered life. Most vintage amps will benefit from having a few caps replaced, but a full recap for a 771 for that price seems a bit high and probably unnecessary imo. Also you'd be very lucky to sell it for the price of the recap. If it was a TOTL Sansui then it would make more sense. 
   
  I paid £70 (approx $100) for a Sansui 551 and it sounds wonderful, the last thing on my mind would be to change any of the innards.
   
  I'm getting to know when amps aren't well and need servicing. Some subtle signs are; the sound may be too warm, lose bass, dullness, flat sounding. Also any 'hum' that is coming from the amp when nothing else is plugged in. Distortion at high volume. 
   
  If it don't have any of the above.. Don't fix it. It may well come back sounding like another amp. Might be a better amp, but it might not be the classic sounding Sansui it was before. The XX1 line are from a sweet spot in the Sansui line up. Sweet spot because they sound verrrry 'sweet' ))


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





musicnutt said:


> I just bought a Sansui 771 and was looking here to get it restored. Has anyone here dealt with them? Looking at ~$550 for full-recap, output mod and current balance. Sound nuts?


 
   
  As Lugbug1 said, I wouldn't personally pay that much to have that particular model redone.  It's a nice piece, but market value for an unrestored one is $100-150.  So to put $550 into it is questionable.  You may want to save that kind of restoration $ for a higher end piece that's TOTL, has more power, will have better resale value.  You may not think you'll ever want to sell it, but there's a tendency to want to upgrade or gather more vintage stuff as time goes on.  In general, you have a better shot at recovering restoration investments the higher you go up the ladder in terms of classic/TOTL models, highly desirable brands, etc.


----------



## petemac110

meewoo said:


> Then it should be AU-A907i, and based on search, it's MOSFET.
> 
> If I am in your shoes, I will definitely go after AU-a907i. It looks badass!!!!!!!!1
> 
> ...




The amp in question is the 'plain' AU Alpha 907i with normal bipolar outputs, rather than the MOS LIMITED version. Given that the poster hails from Australia, I'm certain that I listened to this exact amp at the seller's house a few weeks ago. Lovely amp, lovely condition, superb sound... but not appreciably better than my AU-X701 (it's little brother) so I didn't purchase it.

It is a Japanese market 100V amp as you mentioned. 

The 907i was the amp which formed the baseline for Sansui's last evolution of amps before they went bankrupt. There were many special editions and revisions over a 10 year period, but the base design remained the same. These amps are in a whole different ballpark to the older Sansuis. I have a substantial Sansui collection, and my AU-X701 sounds the best to my ears.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Now that you have specified what you are referring to, I think you are talking about "apple and oranges".
> 
> Those two items are "boutique high end" items.   This thread is about "vintage mass market" items, not "vintage high end" items.   It was already established early in this thread (by Skylab among others) that cost-no-object high end gear is still going to be a little better even than the SX-1980 or other TOTL mass market gear.
> 
> ...


 
   
  cant say i have compared to much else. theres soooo much stuff out there & im just happy with  my little corner of the room. i wasnt trying to compare but merely making an observation from experience. a few yrs back, i thought my Sansui (& other vintage amps for that matter) was the bee's knees cos i was impressed with the iron & build quality but mainly cos i was ignorant. its impossible to know good until one hears better.
   
  i expressed my opinions cos a coupla guys asked. nevertheless, vintage stuff is amazing both in material, build & (importantly) price but ultimately, science & modern materials is an unrelenting juggernaut. theres no doubt to my mind that well designed well built modern components will better most of what was available 40yrs ago.
   
  unless we are talking about tubes! in that case, its a whole nother can of worms!!  
   
  on another subject, theres a restored good condition Sansui AU-111 for $3500 on canuckaudiomart. that mite be a good deal for a collector of means. i would love to get my hands on it but i dont have the means & will console myself by repeating the AU-111 will drive my NS1k horridly


----------



## Trav

musicnutt said:


> I just bought a Sansui 771 and was looking here to get it restored. Has anyone here dealt with them? Looking at ~$550 for full-recap, output mod and current balance. Sound nuts?


Do you have any current complaints about the 771? I have the 881 and TBH it's not crossed my mind to have restored. It's yields no hum, scratches in the pots and I'm really enjoying the synergy it has with all my speakers and HP.


----------



## LugBug1

Just scored for another Pioneer. Been on the look out for a replacement for my now deceased SX550 (still grieving..) Although I still have her. She's in my cupboard. I'm keeping her Norman Bates styley ha)
   
  I'll post my usual pics and run down when received. (although I wouldn't get too excited, £60 means it isn't a sx1980)
   
  Or is it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


  
   
   
   
  No its not actually. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
   
  No. Seriously its really not. 
   
   
   
   




   
   
   
  Right I'll stop now. I look like I've got something wrong with me all this winking..


----------



## kstuart

Quote:  





> £60


 
  Just curious, where in the world of " £ " are you located (roughly) ??


----------



## kstuart

Quote:  





> ...nevertheless, vintage stuff is amazing both in material, build & (importantly) price but ultimately, science & modern materials is an unrelenting juggernaut. theres no doubt to my mind that well designed well built modern components will better most of what was available 40yrs ago.


 
  I think you are pendulum-swinging too far in the other direction.
   
  A new modern high-end amp, that is better than a new high-end amp in 1985, costs many thousands of dollars, just as that 1985 one did.   In both cases, making something that sounds good has a small audience, there are only a tiny fraction of people who can both hear the difference and can afford it.
   
  So, the low number of units sold for every carefully researched design, means that they cost an arm and a leg, in order to recoup the development costs.
   
  Beyond that, as you mention, there is inevitable technological progress in circuit design.  However, there is also the big increase in the cost of materials like big transformers.
   
  So, I don't think that new modern amps give you a better sound in any given price range --- except for "price no object".  I'm sure that the current top of the Stereophile Recommended Components List sounds a little better than the top ones 30 years ago, but a Bugatti Veyron will go faster than a 1977 Ferrari, and neither fact is relevant to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So, irregardless of whether or not you were overenthusiastic in 2011, the AU-517 is still better than any brand new amp you can buy for the same money.


----------



## scottiebabie

lols unfortunately knowledge is a terrible thing & once that pandora's box is opened, im fraid theres no going back atleast for me. i dont know whether the AU-517 is better than a brand new amp but i cannot argue that its great for the price i paid.
   
  to me ears as it is now, driving the sensitive (90db) Yamaha NS1000, theres just no denying the Sansui is completely outclassed. indeed, even the similarly priced (used that is) Audio Space 300b amp cannot compete on the same level with the DK amp, atleast not with the NS1k - too slow too laid back for my taste. perhaps a full refurb, recap & speaker post replacement mite tilt the pendulum but i cant say til i do it & it not gonna happen anytime soon.
   
  maybe the incoming Pioneer SA-8100 may tell me different. the one thing i can say for sure is that this journey of discovery is fun.


----------



## parbaked

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> maybe the incoming Pioneer SA-8100 may tell me different. the one thing i can say for sure is that this journey of discovery is fun.


 
  Hopefully you will just enjoy it for what it is or was.
  I love my SA-7100. Nice contrast to modern gear, great value and so cool to flip those metal switches.
  If only it had meters...


----------



## harrinj

Well I got my Marantz 4400 today. it's very dirty and I'll post before and after pics when it's cleaned.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Just curious, where in the world of " £ " are you located (roughly) ??


 
  The home of Newcastle Brown Ale


----------



## MinedSafe

Is that the small Island with rude people beside nice and friendly Ireland?  Home of Guinness!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> The home of Newcastle Brown Ale


 
   
  Ah!!!!! LOOPY JUICE!! This explains a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 jk


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> The home of Newcastle Brown Ale


----------



## Trav

Also the birthplace of one Gordon Sumner...aka Sting.


----------



## scottiebabie

this is what we have out west....
   

   
  wooof woooof


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> We would need more information to guide you to the best choice:
> 
> * Is the visual appearance of the unit important ?  (If yes, then the premium price of Marantz would be worthwhile to you, otherwise not.)
> * Do you listen to FM radio ?  (If not, then an "integrated amplifier" that does not have a tuner might be a more cost-effective choice.  But if the answer to the appearance question was "yes", then you might want a receiver just for the "look".)
> * Do you listen to rock and pop - or do you favor folk, jazz and/or classical ?


 
  What I'm really looking is a vintage that will make the most of my Grado SR-225i


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





zibra said:


> You mean its too loud at very low volume? you need to replace original 470om resistors for bigger ones. Not sure is it wot for Grado as tese are dynamic, low impedance eadpones.
> I use ifiman E5LE, ortodynamic.
> 
> Again sorry for grammar - keyboard not working and some letters are missing.


 
  No I need to pump up the volume knob to get a decent sound


----------



## zibra

Tats very strange. I listened E5LE at 11 o clock max on volume pot wit original resistors and after messing it up wit lower value I really cant go past 9 o clock. But ortodynamic ones arent sensitive for DF generally as dynamic ones. IMO its not good combination for dynamic like Grado as you sould observe slower attack, overall mudness, big wooly bass and also some distortion on igs (soprans, sry no letter working...) like sarpness, unnatural sound etc. Its muc better to use very low impedance output for Grados. Maybe your model is not properly working - dont know. Can you describe more at wat level of volume knob you listening to and wat appens?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





minedsafe said:


> Is that the small Island with rude people beside nice and friendly Ireland?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hahaha exactly!
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Ah!!!!! LOOPY JUICE!! This explains a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Suppose you're right... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





mikelap said:


>


 





 Now that looks sooo nice! Only it should never be served in a pint glass. That would be frowned upon in Newcastle, we either drink it straight out the bottle or in a half pint glass.... It just doesn't taste right out of a pinter. Don't know why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





trav said:


> Also the birthplace of one Gordon Sumner...aka Sting.


 
  Yup. And Jackie Milburn (the greatest soccer player that ever lived 
   
  Hmmm I want a drink now haha 
   
  (just got me Pioneer so I'll be posting some pics soon. It's needing quite a clean up..)


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> this is what we have out west....
> 
> 
> 
> wooof woooof


 
  Since this is vintage thread - vintage "thingy to put your glass of Laško pivo on" - from my single digit age time ( from an auction in my country )
   




   
  It says " At every occasion to quench thirst - refreshing Laško pivo " .
   
  I used to live in the vicinity of the printing house these and labels for the bottle of the famous "Goat" used to be printed and if asked politely, we kids were always given a couple of those. 
   
  Here the current incarnation - from can to barrel :
   




   
  Although my "town" beer is Union, I drink Laško - there is a fierce rivalry and more-than-one-not-so-nice "comparisons" - from both camps. Sometimes/someplaces not particularly wise to wave the flag of your beer - if you want to stay out of trouble. In iffy situations, I go neutral - Heineken, Fosters ( Australian for beer ), etc.
   
  The best English speaking people will remember Slovenian "pivo" for beer is by listening to this song by Vadnals http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vadnals , which are/were IIRC from Cleveland and of Slovene descent.
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkmTRG0FqQ
   
  Saw them live at the tender age of 6  - at* *the _Izseljeniški piknik _( Immigration picnic, Slovenes immigrated from all over the world gather yearly in home country, in 1966 when I saw them it was at the castle of town Škofja Loka ). 
   
   
  Understandably, it was "no pivo today" for me back then...


----------



## Silent One

With enough Ale,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it'll look okay!


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





zibra said:


> Tats very strange. I listened E5LE at 11 o clock max on volume pot wit original resistors and after messing it up wit lower value I really cant go past 9 o clock. But ortodynamic ones arent sensitive for DF generally as dynamic ones. IMO its not good combination for dynamic like Grado as you sould observe slower attack, overall mudness, big wooly bass and also some distortion on igs (soprans, sry no letter working...) like sarpness, unnatural sound etc. Its muc better to use very low impedance output for Grados. Maybe your model is not properly working - dont know. Can you describe more at wat level of volume knob you listening to and wat appens?


 

 +1.
   
  Yep, Kardon has those problems, but it still has very nice sound.
  Does Grado require amp? I had SR325i once and didn't find amping adds large margin benefit.
  If you like Grado sound, Kardon really is not good match, you may think later models of Pioneer. They generally add soundstage and dynamics. OK, I can also recommend another Kenwood Kr-8050/Kr-9050 High-speed DC stereo receiver, the sound rises and decays so fast in those models. Gees, I felt I was always forced to listen to every note. Not my taste at all, but may suit you since you dig Grados.
   
  @scottie,
  I don't drink much but the ale you posted just lure me to, maybe the name and wooof, wooof trigger me! You evil .....!!!


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> +1.
> 
> Yep, Kardon has those problems, but it still has very nice sound.
> Does Grado require amp? I had SR325i once and didn't find amping adds large margin benefit.
> ...


 
  Thank you for all your inputs, a friend of mine will give me a Marantz 2230, so hopefully that will work well with my Grado


----------



## 5aces

scottiebabie said:


> this is what we have out west....




Hi ScottieB,
you know this is a staple out east:



Hope Calgary is doing you right.
Nice to see you've collected a pair of NS 1000M.

My experience is to leave the crossovers alone, unless there is an obvious fault.
Focus on the high and mid attenuator dials, sometimes just working them all the way back and forth is enough to keep the contact surfaces clean, these dials are the speakers weak link.

At some point you will have to remove the faceplate, position the knob to 'Normal' and pull it straight off.
Beneath is a nut and washer that will release the high quality L-Pad, with plated copper windings and a plated solid copper wiper.
Spray into the ceramic body with DeoxIT and work the dial.



In searching for an amplifier to power them, I'm afraid few receivers or mid range amplifiers will let them shine.
Having those speakers go from "very good" to 'incredible' does take a quality amplifier, preferably separates in my experience.
Certainly you will hear the difference when hooked to an appropriate amp, I found 150W solid state and up to be about right for me.
I didn't play much with valves, these were hooked to a pair of Manley Neo-Classic SE / PP 300B for years and I've listened through a McIntosh MC 240 with my favorite 6L6GC tubes.

I am using the matching original Yamaha C1 preamp and VFET B1 power amp, it is 160W.
NS speakers are very dependent on program material, I've had them _fully_ cranked for a favorite song using a Bryston BDP-1 digital player with a Bel Canto dac.
Fast, accurate and a sphere of sound center stage as you sit eight feet away in the sweet spot, a really good system.
Enjoy your music.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





silent one said:


> With enough Ale,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It is/was a cardboard beer mat ( non plastified ) - it could wind up looking far worse after a single evening of real action. They used to change them at least daily. From which hole did the seller of this by now truly mega rare version dig it is beyond me.
   
  This specimen is 45 + years old - I know, they changed design in early 70s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - and on "pivogon" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 scale it would still score 5/10 ! .


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





> Lug Bug said..................


 

 So who's your football team that you support?   Could it be Chelsea? 
   
  I am a Chelsea fan for the following reason - my daughter played a high level club football (not soccer) for the past six years, winning the Oregon state championship 4 of 5 years, and her team name was Chelsea.  She just got back from study abroad in Denmark, spent the last few days in London and went to the opener against Hull on Saturday!  I watched it here in Oregon on the telly................you have ME speaking the King's English now!


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Hi ScottieB,
> you know this is a staple out east:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  FYI, the speaker cabinets for NS 1000Ms were made in Slovenia by Alples in Železniki. In neighbouring Jelovica forest Stradivari hand picked the wood for his best violins.
   
  And TOTL Marantz preamps ( maybe power amp PCBs too ) from 80s have been assembled and QCed at Institute Josef Stefan in Ljubljana - certainly far better qualified institution than any regular manufacturer.


----------



## scottiebabie

@5aces AK is more an "eastern" brew & i kinda like my smaller Albertan micro brews!!! lols. yup Calgarys been more than good as Albertas where the work is...... OIL & GAS baby!!! hahahah
   
  picked up the NS1k on 2 Sundays back & i have to admit its been a game changer for me. macro/micro details rivals what im getting from the T1/HD800 while superceding the dynamic duo in clarity, dynamics & transient response ie. speed! indeed both those cans sound fuzzy when i put them on right after the NS1k! 
   
  yes am planning to pullout the Lpad & do a bit of deoxit'in, recapping & perhaps even refinishing them with an exotic burl veneer. why would u not recommend recapping the Xovers? 
   
  the Sansui AU-517 just dont the mustard on them. my Audio Space 300b drives them with very nice with a delicate (almost flowery) airiness. bass is tight & organic esp on the 4ohm outs. and if this is all i have heard, i think i would have lived quite happily. however knowledge is a terrible thing & once i hooked up the DK amp, its was over for me. i gots speed, i gots details, i gots air, i gots big super tight bass, i gots extension & most importantly, i gots the "live" im-am-there! been listening & rediscovering my albums this past week everychance i get. & these NS1k goes LOUD! LOVE 'EM!
   
  the one obvious fly in the ointment for me is soundstage esp depth isnt up there with the best.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> So who's your football team that you support?   Could it be Chelsea?
> 
> I am a Chelsea fan for the following reason - my daughter played a high level club football (not soccer) for the past six years, winning the Oregon state championship 4 of 5 years, and her team name was Chelsea.  She just got back from study abroad in Denmark, spent the last few days in London and went to the opener against Hull on Saturday!  I watched it here in Oregon on the telly................you have ME speaking the King's English now!


 
  *cough* erm... 'Newcastle United'!!! 
   
  Thats great about your daughter, you must be proud as punch!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 This is great. Though, I need to reset my reply. We both sent posts within three minutes - I was actually replying to LugBug1 who posted:
   
_"Just got Pioneer so I'll be posting some pix soon. It's needing quite a clean up..."_
   
  This, so it doesn't appear that I've been drinking... _and posting. _


----------



## LugBug1

Heres the new Pioneer  It needed a good clean. The insides were coated in 30 years of dust. I painstakingly removed it with a fine paint brush and then got to work squirting the pots. Polished the knobs, fascia and bingo good as (nearly) new. Unfortunately the power lead is about 2 foot long... So I'm having use an extension to reach my mains filter which I'm not happy about. So I'll be fixing an adapter asap. 
   
  To say I'm delighted with the sound would be an understatement. It sounds better than my SX550, better because it has a more syrupy sound, a little warmer. Just as detailed but smoother. Big and controlled. 
   
  It just oozes quality when using the stepped volume and tone controls and the tone's work well.  
   
  The lowly SA-508


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Heres the new Pioneer  It needed a good clean. The insides were coated in 30 years of dust. I painstakingly removed it with a fine paint brush and then got to work squirting the pots. Polished the knobs, fascia and bingo good as (nearly) new. Unfortunately the power lead is about 2 foot long... So I'm having use an extension to reach my mains filter which I'm not happy about. So I'll be fixing an adapter asap.
> 
> To say I'm delighted with the sound would be an understatement. It sounds better than my SX550, better because it has a more syrupy sound, a little warmer. Just as detailed but smoother. Big and controlled.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Dayum!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Nice!!


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Heres the new Pioneer  It needed a good clean. The insides were coated in 30 years of dust. I painstakingly removed it with a fine paint brush and then got to work squirting the pots. Polished the knobs, fascia and bingo good as (nearly) new. Unfortunately the power lead is about 2 foot long... So I'm having use an extension to reach my mains filter which I'm not happy about. So I'll be fixing an adapter asap.
> 
> To say I'm delighted with the sound would be an understatement. It sounds better than my SX550, better because it has a more syrupy sound, a little warmer. Just as detailed but smoother. Big and controlled.
> 
> ...




Gorgeous.........


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


>


 
   





 Look....... Fluoroscan meters!


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Dayum!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Gorgeous.........


 
  Thanks guys. Got to give Pioneer credit. They made pure quality in those days.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Look....... Fluoroscan meters!


 
  Hahaha I knowwww!!


----------



## analogsurviver

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



Quote:


lugbug1 said:


> Heres the new Pioneer  It needed a good clean. The insides were coated in 30 years of dust. I painstakingly removed it with a fine paint brush and then got to work squirting the pots. Polished the knobs, fascia and bingo good as (nearly) new. Unfortunately the power lead is about 2 foot long... So I'm having use an extension to reach my mains filter which I'm not happy about. So I'll be fixing an adapter asap.
> 
> To say I'm delighted with the sound would be an understatement. It sounds better than my SX550, better because it has a more syrupy sound, a little warmer. Just as detailed but smoother. Big and controlled.
> 
> ...


   


  Nice work!



Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## kstuart

It was called SA-5800 in the USA (marketing people are so funny that they think they will sell more in different areas by using a different *number* ).
   
  Interesting that it has the same meters as the SA-9800.
   
  It is an SX-580 without a tuner, assuming they used the same circuits in both lines...
   
  PS  Pardew - like or "out" ?


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


 
  Cheers bud, I get so much fulfilment from cleaning these old beauties up. 
  Quote: 





kstuart said:


> It was called SA-5800 in the USA (marketing people are so funny that they think they will sell more in different areas by using a different *number* ).
> 
> Interesting that it has the same meters as the SA-9800.
> 
> It is an SX-580 without a tuner, assuming they used the same circuits in both lines...


 
  Thats right. It's a shame the SA-508 didn't get the wood casing like it's transatlantic cousin. We like like wood over here too ha! 
   
  Talking about wood. I'm currently very excitable at the mo..! Enjoying one of my tester recordings (Barbers Violin Concerto - Gil Shaham) and the power and  dynamics are really something. This is why I love this vintage stuff. It's not the most detailed amp I've heard, but it renders the music with such authority and power. All encapsulated in a pool of warm syrup. Haaaah.


----------



## 5aces

scottiebabie said:


> why would u not recommend recapping the Xovers?




If you hear your speakers sounding bad, looking at the few electrolytic caps on top of the crossover is worthwhile but it's not like the speakers will become a doorstop if you don't replace those caps, unlike an amplifier.
From your exuberance, it would appear all is in order with the crossovers and the_ original_ parts, as it was meant to be.
New style binding posts are a nice upgrade.
Unless you are up for an experiment with your classic speakers, changing out the original caps may very well affect the tone you know and enjoy right now.
Why stop at the three caps? The whole crossover and attenuators can be swapped out for 'better' a.k.a 'newer'...
You can test Frequency Response with equipment but just to change out caps because "it's time" doesn't always pan out the way you might think.
I don't expect to sway anyone from replacing older caps on their crossovers, if it sounds good right now will they sound even better afterwards?
Swap them out scottiebabie, post your results, looks like you are going to dig right into them, might as well get at those caps while doing all your refurbishing.
I'm still diggin' mine with the original crossover capacitors, if the Yamaha's start to sound thin, I'll take a look at the board.

Here's a huge thread on NS 1000 mods:
Refurbishing Yamaha NS 1000M's



scottiebabie said:


> the one obvious fly in the ointment for me is soundstage esp depth isnt up there with the best.




NS 1000's are easy to drive which leads to a false sense of confidence, you can easily drive a small amp to clipping which could damage the tweeter and mid range unit, so no running them wide open with a low power amplifier.
These speakers need muscle behind them, hence the 150W recommendation, well above the 100W speaker rating, no worries about clipping at volume when having drinks and getting your groove on.
By the same token if you get cocky with a big 300W amp, it may not clip but still exceed the thermal and mechanical limits in the speaker and will kill them quickly as clipping a small amp.

Like I said, I have personally run 160W into these at full volume playing rock music for a couple songs and they handled it beautifully, kind of like blowing the carbon out of an old Corvette...


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Cheers bud, I get so much fulfilment from cleaning these old beauties up.
> Thats right. It's a shame the SA-508 didn't get the wood casing like it's transatlantic cousin. We like like wood over here too ha!
> 
> Talking about wood. I'm currently very excitable at the mo..! Enjoying one of my tester recordings (Barbers Violin Concerto - Gil Shaham) and the power and  dynamics are really something. This is why I love this vintage stuff. It's not the most detailed amp I've heard, but it renders the music with such authority and power. All encapsulated in a pool of warm syrup. Haaaah.


 
  If you like Barber concerto, here some of "more of the same" http://www.amazon.com/Menotti-Barber-Violin-Concertos-Ricci/dp/B00000158X
  I like Menotti very much too. Not familiar with Gil Shaham rendition of Barber.
   
  Now if you say you've got that Ricci on RR on vinyl, I will go traffic light colour with envy ...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> If you like Barber concerto, here some of "more of the same" http://www.amazon.com/Menotti-Barber-Violin-Concertos-Ricci/dp/B00000158X
> I like Menotti very much too. Not familiar with Gil Shaham rendition of Barber.
> 
> Now if you say you've got that Ricci on RR on vinyl, I will go traffic light colour with envy ...


 
  I haven't got either of those recordings but I'm defo going to check them out. If I get a shiver up my spine during the Andante then I'll know its good 
   
  The Gil Shaham recording is fave tester recording of mine, the recording is amazing. Early nineties digital, the LSO with previn. You also get a very good rendition of Korngold's violin show piece. Highly recommended.


----------



## basementdweller

So I can't find any high power Marntz or Pioneer units where the seller isn't grossly over-inflating the value, or too far away, or unloads it the day before I get to it.  My Dad knows I am into this kind of stuff and I think he just picked up a working 2270 for $20.
   
  FML.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I haven't got either of those recordings but I'm defo going to check them out. If I get a shiver up my spine during the Andante then I'll know its good
> 
> The Gil Shaham recording is fave tester recording of mine, the recording is amazing. Early nineties digital, the LSO with previn. You also get a very good rendition of Korngold's violin show piece. Highly recommended.


 
  Mmmmm - Korngold too. I do not remember it from my CD retail days - damn !
   
  Caution with Ricci recordings - there are two versions. Digital recording on Varese Sarabande and analog recording on Reference Recordings, made parallel at the same recording session(s). RR sounds better - even transferred to CD at then SOTA converters etc. 
   
  That is why I remarked about RR vinyl - it is one of THE analog recordings to play in order to chill out after your audiophile friends and Also Sprach Zarathustras and Pines of Rome and other similar blockbusters have left. Ricci's dark tone of his Guarneri violin is very well served on this LP, very similar to what I can remember from his performance in duo with guitarist Eliot Fisk at our Modern Gallery in mid 90s. While writing this post, I sadly discovered Ruggiero Ricci passed away in 2012 - at that concert I saw him live, he celebrated his 60th year of performing ( he started at 6 ! ) - and that was almost 20 years ago !


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





5aces said:


> If you hear your speakers sounding bad, looking at the few electrolytic caps on top of the crossover is worthwhile, it's not like the speakers will become a doorstop if you do not replace those caps, unlike an amplifier.
> From your exuberance, it would appear all is in order with the crossovers and the_ original_ parts, as it was meant to be.
> New style binding posts are a nice upgrade.
> Unless you are up for an experiment with your classic speakers, changing out the original caps may very well affect the tone you know and enjoy right now.
> ...


 
   
  yup my NS1k sounds great to my ears! i gotta say one strange thing happened - on the big DK amp when i 1st got the yamis, i had to turn up the dial close to 12o'clock or even higher for my usual listening volume. then a bout a day later, the NS1k suddenly opened up & i can barely turn it past 9o'clock. any ideas?
   
  yes i order a 5way binding posts with the exact bracket meant from NS1ks off ebay so i can hookup some real cables instead of the cheap radioshack 18g im using cos of the spring posts.
   
  ps:my DK amp is rated at 150w@8ohm til 800w@1.5ohm so lots of current for them


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Mmmmm - Korngold too. I do not remember it from my CD retail days - damn !
> 
> Caution with Ricci recordings - there are two versions. Digital recording on Varese Sarabande and analog recording on Reference Recordings, made parallel at the same recording session(s). RR sounds better - even transferred to CD at then SOTA converters etc.
> 
> That is why I remarked about RR vinyl - it is one of THE analog recordings to play in order to chill out after your audiophile friends and Also Sprach Zarathustras and Pines of Rome and other similar blockbusters have left. Ricci's dark tone of his Guarneri violin is very well served on this LP, very similar to what I can remember from his performance in duo with guitarist Eliot Fisk at our Modern Gallery in mid 90s. While writing this post, I sadly discovered Ruggiero Ricci passed away in 2012 - at that concert I saw him live, he celebrated his 60th year of performing ( he started at 6 ! ) - and that was almost 20 years ago !


 
  Wow you clearly know your stuff. Yeah (sorry if this is boring guys but..) I've been into classical music most of my adult life. Even when I used to play in rock bands. I grew up with it- my dad is to blame.
   
  Shame I don't use vinyl now.. When my son is a bit older I might risk having a turntable again. 
   
  Anyways, nice to know there is someone else here who appreciates the classics. I'm lucky enough to have a new and really amazing music venue called The Sage near where I live. I've seen from Mozart opera's to Birtwistle. More recently a very impressive Wagner Ring.
   
  My fave composers will always be Bach n' Beethoven...They may not have had Mozart's natural gift, but they put the work in. (I have a huge soft spot for Prokofiev too.. Still very underrated IMO)


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





basementdweller said:


> So I can't find any high power Marntz or Pioneer units where the seller isn't grossly over-inflating the value, or too far away, or unloads it the day before I get to it.  My Dad knows I am into this kind of stuff and I think he just picked up a working 2270 for $20.
> 
> FML.


 

 You have a cool dad!! He literally stole (robbed) Marantz 2270 for you. A good condition Marantz 2270 easily fetches around $350. If it has wooden case, then $500.
   
  Being said, Marantz 2270, 2230 are sonically different to other 22xx, many people think they are best sounding among all 22xx models. Congrats!


----------



## basementdweller

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> You have a cool dad!! He literally stole (robbed) Marantz 2270 for you. A good condition Marantz 2270 easily fetches around $350. If it has wooden case, then $500.
> 
> Being said, Marantz 2270, 2230 are sonically different to other 22xx, many people think they are best sounding among all 22xx models. Congrats!


 
  Oh, yeah I know.  He has no idea what he has.  To make matters worse, he isn't going to give it to me as far as I can tell.  It will probably end up matted to some Wal-Mart speakers and iBuds!  Must think of something I can trade him......


----------



## 5aces

scottiebabie said:


> on the big DK amp when i 1st got the yamis, i had to turn up the dial close to 12o'clock or even higher for my usual listening volume. then a bout a day later, the NS1k suddenly opened up & i can barely turn it past 9o'clock. any ideas?




I know before the big V-FET B-1 warms up, I set the volume past 12:00 once I hear that familiar 'ping' from the heat sink about an hour in I have to dial it back below 12:00 the sound gets stronger as the amplifier warms up.
Generally I'm running it at half volume most of the time on the Yamaha preamp.

One more thing regarding sound stage, see that you have the tweeters on your mirrored Yam speakers oriented to the outside, like Yamaha engineers recommend, you may find more spacious sound.
Monitors are sometimes positioned on the side too, experiment with your room which I hope is not grandiose.
My findings correlate with the likewise mirrored JBL L112 speaker instruction manual: speakers positioned *LESS* than 10 feet apart *tweeters face outboard*, speakers *MORE* than 10 feet apart *tweeters face inboard*.

You really should clean those attenuator dials, they do affect volume and sound quality.


----------



## Meewoo

@5aces,
   
  Why you have so many good Yammy stuff, but not CA-2010 or CR-3020? Ot I might be wrong, but I don't recall you posted Vintage Yammy. OK, B1 is vintage too, but not silver stuff.


----------



## 5aces

Not so much of a receiver bug, Meewoo.
If I do get big eyes, it is for the Yamaha CR 3020.
I posted the Yam stuff a couple years back but it's not eye candy, more along the lines of a military grey airbus cockpit.

I believe wualta has a B-2 amplifier, he knows what time it is when the music starts to play!



meewoo said:


> I know, wualta is a FET digger.
> Did we get CR-3020 in this thread?




*I searched 3020 and come up with a page of NAD and you mentioning a CR 3020 two years ago Ha Ha, no TOTL Yamaha receiver yet...*

Parts are scarce for the big Technics, Hitachi and Yamaha big boys, I'm already walking one of the most dangerous high wires in vintage audio owning a V-FET power amplifier where parts come from even rarer salvage units.

You make us FET guys sound like perverts, heh.


----------



## Meewoo

I know, wualta is a FET digger.
   
  Did we get CR-3020 in this thread?


----------



## Silent One

I'd
   love
      to 
       see
         one!


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Wow you clearly know your stuff. Yeah (sorry if this is boring guys but..) I've been into classical music most of my adult life. Even when I used to play in rock bands. I grew up with it- my dad is to blame.
> 
> Shame I don't use vinyl now.. When my son is a bit older I might risk having a turntable again.
> 
> ...


 
  Yes, what we grew up with will influence us - like it or not. This being a vintage thread, I just might post the machine that put indellible impression on me musically from the early age. Sadly, did not decide to start playing an instrument when I had a chance. Zither - that would have been an interesting journey for sure !
   
  Not having a turntable is understandable in the presence of small children.
   
  Getting a bit late (3:00 AM) to write about musical venues over here - some other time.
   
  Prokofiev is also in my premier echelon of composers.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Heres the new Pioneer  It needed a good clean. The insides were coated in 30 years of dust. I painstakingly removed it with a fine paint brush and then got to work squirting the pots. Polished the knobs, fascia and bingo good as (nearly) new. Unfortunately the power lead is about 2 foot long... So I'm having use an extension to reach my mains filter which I'm not happy about. So I'll be fixing an adapter asap.
> 
> To say I'm delighted with the sound would be an understatement. It sounds better than my SX550, better because it has a more syrupy sound, a little warmer. Just as detailed but smoother. Big and controlled.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Welcome to the family LugBug! Meet your American cousin (well, Canadian actually - I bought it in Montreal):
   

   
  Mine is back in my office closet unfortunately. I just have no use for it right now...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Welcome to the family LugBug! Meet your American cousin (well, Canadian actually - I bought it in Montreal):
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is back in my office closet unfortunately. I just have no use for it right now...


 
  I knew you had one, didn't realise it was the same blood relative! 
   





 
   
  Tell ye, they don't make them like this anymore. ... go and get her back out!


----------



## bce22

If you only had $400 would you use it:
   
  1. restore your Scott 299b tube amp which you refuse to use until restored.  (worth saying i play vinyl, have klipsch cornwalls, and this amp has no headphone out)
   
  2. purchase a cosmetically B+/A Kenwood Supreme 600 that is non-functioning (needs basic restore service).
   
  Im so confused.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> I knew you had one, didn't realise it was the same blood relative!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Its beautiful and I love it. I keep it for sentimental reasons, but it doesn't have the performance to drive my headphones or home speakers well enough.


----------



## MattTCG

I just closed a deal on a fully restored Sansui model 8. I passed on it a few times but kept coming back to it because the price was just too good to pass up on. I should be able to pick it up maybe Sunday when of course I will post some pics.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> If you only had $400 would you use it:
> 
> 1. restore your Scott 299b tube amp which you refuse to use until restored.  (worth saying i play vinyl, have klipsch cornwalls, and this amp has no headphone out)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Come to my place.
  I can loan you my 500 or KA-907. Then you won't be confused.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Its beautiful and I love it. I keep it for sentimental reasons, but it doesn't have the performance to drive my headphones or home speakers well enough.


 




  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I just closed a deal on a fully restored Sansui model 8. I passed on it a few times but kept coming back to it because the price was just too good to pass up on. I should be able to pick it up maybe Sunday when of course I will post some pics.


 
  Can't blame you for giving in on that deal matey.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Come to my place.
> I can loan you my 500 or KA-907. Then you won't be confused.


 
  In other words, collect the gear and fix it later?
   
  i know the kenwood supreme 600 is relatively rare.
   
  PS. i know where your place is.  I migbt take you up on that offer!


----------



## MIKELAP

This is the year old coach is back go Chelsea go !


----------



## PhoenixG

Sorry buds - if only you knew how German I am. Bayern all the way.


----------



## LugBug1

***** soccer or football. Guys, this is a vintage hifi forum.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> ***** soccer or football. Guys, this is a vintage hifi forum.


 
  LOL, in all honesty, sometimes I forget it ISN'T a vintage Hi-Fi forum.


----------



## bce22

oh by the way, whats the clinical definition for the individual that consistently carries 50lb vintage receiver/amps outside to the deck to listen to headphones outside on beautiful New England summer nights?  It has to be a sickness (no matter how sweet the sound).


----------



## Silent One

Not sure. But I'm always wheeling
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the Sansui and Pioneer around on the hotel's luggage cart!


----------



## bce22

Silent, your crazier than me!  In an absolutely AWESOME way!  If your ever in the North East hit me up!  I'd feel privaleged to be crazy with you!


----------



## PhoenixG

That's some kind of crazy dedication to move the equipment. I moved my old Kenny KR-9600 exactly twice, which was twice more than I wanted to haha. I have only moved the sx-1980 to the shop and back (a few more times than I wanted to grumble grumble...), and every time it leaves its mark (literally prints heatsink grill marks into the skin on my arms).
  If I want to hear it from the porch, I just turn the knob clockwise haha 
  That's not as good as some good hp's or speakers, but my back prefers it that way.


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I just closed a deal on a fully restored Sansui model 8. I passed on it a few times but kept coming back to it because the price was just too good to pass up on. I should be able to pick it up maybe Sunday when of course I will post some pics.


 
   
   
  Nice.  Will be interested in hearing how it compares to your other receivers.
   
  Fully restored means fully recapped?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> In other words, collect the gear and fix it later?
> 
> i know the kenwood supreme 600 is relatively rare.
> 
> PS. i know where your place is.  I migbt take you up on that offer!


 
   
  No, what I mean is that you can try them before you make decision. 500 or 907 wouldn't sound much differently from 600.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Silent, your crazier than me!  In an absolutely AWESOME way!  If your ever in the North East hit me up!  I'd feel privaleged to be crazy with you!


 





   
  I relocated back to my former city. So, I'm hotel side while I look for a place to rent. And being an audio lover means bringing audio gear all up in here to get comfy!


----------



## captouch

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> If you only had $400 would you use it:
> 
> 1. restore your Scott 299b tube amp which you refuse to use until restored.  (worth saying i play vinyl, have klipsch cornwalls, and this amp has no headphone out)
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would fix the Scott, unless you don't mind waiting and spending the $ to fix both later.  And unless you know why it's non-functioning, The 600 could need fairly costly repair on top of the $400 you'd spend to get it.  
   
  Having a collection of non-working gear doesn't really seem the right way to go unless you can fix them yourself.  Paying someone to fix/restore can become costly.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





5aces said:


> I know before the big V-FET B-1 warms up, I set the volume past 12:00 once I hear that familiar 'ping' from the heat sink about an hour in I have to dial it back below 12:00 the sound gets stronger as the amplifier warms up.
> Generally I'm running it at half volume most of the time on the Yamaha preamp.
> 
> One more thing regarding sound stage, see that you have the tweeters on your mirrored Yam speakers oriented to the outside, like Yamaha engineers recommend, you may find more spacious sound.
> ...


 
   
  im barely past 9:00 with mine & i have them about 5-6ft apart with tweeters facing outboard as marked at the back. for now, my room isnt too much to speak off but i will be moving at the end of Sept when i should have more space to play with. in due course, i will definitely pull out the mid/high attenuators & soak em in deoxit. thxs for all the tips.
   
  on another subject, i will be lugging all 80lbs of amp to audition a pair of NHT 3.3 this sunday. a local guys selling it & i mite pick em up if the sound warrants it & be done with all this upgrading shyte. lol! missus's getting impatient with all my tweaking.


----------



## 5aces

bce22 said:


> whats the clinical definition for the individual that consistently carries 50lb vintage receiver/amps outside




Roadie with Attitude.



Never hurts to get some help when dealing with heavy gear.



scottiebabie said:


> im barely past 9:00 with mine & i have them about 5-6ft




Get them off the ground, about 18 inches, mine are just under 10 feet apart, I sit eight feet away and yep, half volume is really filling the space with sound...


----------



## bce22

Well,thats defintely not the kind of help Im looking for.  Now if you said the "Kate Upton Vintage Electronic Moving Company" ................ definitely!


----------



## Trav

scottiebabie said:


> im barely past 9:00 with mine & i have them about 5-6ft apart with tweeters facing outboard as marked at the back. for now, my room isnt too much to speak off but i will be moving at the end of Sept when i should have more space to play with. in due course, i will definitely pull out the mid/high attenuators & soak em in deoxit. thxs for all the tips.
> 
> on another subject, i will be lugging all 80lbs of amp to audition a pair of NHT 3.3 this sunday. a local guys selling it & i mite pick em up if the sound warrants it & be done with all this upgrading shyte. lol! missus's getting impatient with all my tweaking.


 Scottie from my past research the 3.3 is highly regarded as well as the super zero with a sub. Can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## petemac110

matttcg said:


> I just closed a deal on a fully restored Sansui model 8. I passed on it a few times but kept coming back to it because the price was just too good to pass up on. I should be able to pick it up maybe Sunday when of course I will post some pics.




Beautiful!! The 8 is one of my favourite Sansuis of all time - often called 'the engineer's receiver' due to the quality of the 8 from a industrial design and build quality perspective.


----------



## harrinj

my Marantz 4400 is AMAZING! it brings out BASS in AKG K702 like I have never heard them produce before, sound's dance around in your head like it's 3D, it's super cool. I would not mind getting a new faceplate for it (it's kinda beat up...) other than that its great except the capacitors on the PSB, I can't really tell if it's 'glue' or they decided to defy gravity and leak all over. I am afraid to attach speakers to it (I took a risk with my K702's) because there seems to be something happening in the right channel. The scope is green, I was hoping for blue but it's ok. The DOLBY EQ does not work, when switched on it sounds awful and the meter is stuck. that board probably needs recapped. There is also a current going through the faceplate so the ground needs to be looked at maybe the resistor. 

 I cleaned the hell out of it, took it almost all apart, cleaned and waxed the faceplate and got all the grime off of it, only one light is burned out and that's the dial pointer. cleaned the amps, got all the dust out, and deoxed all the controls. It was super hard to get the two bolts off on the faceplate under the volume knob and the Dimension knob. The 40 year old glue rotted and the dial face is loose and the black clear plastic piece in the center decided to remain when I got the faceplate off so I had to glue that back into the faceplate. Let me tell you... the 4400 is H-E-A-V-Y HEAVY heavy h.....e....a....v...y.... I knew it was heavy but this is .........h.......e.......a......v.....y   I am learning how to fix them and fix them for a living. I got a de-solder pump and a soldering iron today and new fuses for the 4400 since they were 40 year old 1974 fuses in there. I am going to start off with re-capping my H/K 430 once I go through everything and find out what cap's etc are needed. 

 I'll have to take this 4400 to Audio-Specialties in Portland, OR to get LED's installed, the dial face put back together (not confident enough to take a 4400 apart no.....) and have it checked. 
   .  Glue?
   
   
 can't tell but the light is not blue, it is a dull ugly really dim green.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> my Marantz 4400 is AMAZING! it brings out BASS in AKG K702 like I have never heard them produce before, sound's dance around in your head like it's 3D, it's super cool. I would not mind getting a new faceplate for it (it's kinda beat up...) other than that its great except the capacitors on the PSB, I can't really tell if it's 'glue' or they decided to defy gravity and leak all over. I am afraid to attach speakers to it (I took a risk with my K702's) because there seems to be something happening in the right channel. The scope is green, I was hoping for blue but it's ok. The DOLBY EQ does not work, when switched on it sounds awful and the meter is stuck. that board probably needs recapped. There is also a current going through the faceplate so the ground needs to be looked at maybe the resistor.
> 
> I cleaned the hell out of it, took it almost all apart, cleaned and waxed the faceplate and got all the grime off of it, only one light is burned out and that's the dial pointer. cleaned the amps, got all the dust out, and deoxed all the controls. It was super hard to get the two bolts off on the faceplate under the volume knob and the Dimension knob. The 40 year old glue rotted and the dial face is loose and the black clear plastic piece in the center decided to remain when I got the faceplate off so I had to glue that back into the faceplate. Let me tell you... the 4400 is H-E-A-V-Y HEAVY heavy h.....e....a....v...y.... I knew it was heavy but this is .........h.......e.......a......v.....y   I am learning how to fix them and fix them for a living. I got a de-solder pump and a soldering iron today and new fuses for the 4400 since they were 40 year old 1974 fuses in there. I am going to start off with re-capping my H/K 430 once I go through everything and find out what cap's etc are needed.
> 
> ...


 
  Nice receiver nice nice. The colour of the lights is normal, thats what the original ones look like, kind of a bluey green. If you want bright blue then yes LED's will do the trick. Also thats defo glue. It turns brown and looks dodgy as the years go by. 
   
  Not sure about quad models but with other marantz the bulbs are quite easy to replace and there are plenty of sellers on fleabay  They look like fuses and you simply pop them in.
   
  I'm enjoying the K701's with my vintage amps, as you say it really helps them in the bass department. They are very power hungry cans, as hungry as Orthos.
   
  Keep us informed.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> LOL, in all honesty, sometimes I forget it ISN'T a vintage Hi-Fi forum.


 





 (I'm only jealous of your football team


----------



## LugBug1

Couple of daylight shots of the Pioneer because it was dark by the time I'd finished cleaning it yesterday.


----------



## MattTCG

You guys are just a little crazy...in the best possible way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that it takes a little wild abandon to chase and collect this gear. I've already driven to TN and SC for vintage gear (9090db and KLH 17's). And I had a blast doing it. I got ridiculous deals on both and can always flip them if I need to. 
   
  The Sansui model 8 is fully restored and recapped. I will have a full report with pics later. Enjoy the weekend gentleman...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Couple of daylight shots of the Pioneer because it was dark by the time I'd finished cleaning it yesterday.


 
   
  Just beautiful LugBug!! I'm starting to check into collection something without a receiver. I just don't ever use the tuner and I like the look of the Pioneer you have there.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Just beautiful LugBug!! I'm starting to check into collection something without a receiver. I just don't ever use the tuner and I like the look of the Pioneer you have there.


 
  Cheers bud, looking forward to pics of your new Sansui. I've been reading up on it and you've got yourself an absolute classic.


----------



## steppenout

I'm happy to say I just got my new (to me) Sansui AU-717! Wow how I've missed that old Sansui sound. It makes my Senn HD-650's sing like never before. I can't believe how strong the bass is now.


----------



## MattTCG

...


----------



## Skylab

bce22 said:


> If you only had $400 would you use it:
> 
> 1. restore your Scott 299b tube amp which you refuse to use until restored.  (worth saying i play vinyl, have klipsch cornwalls, and this amp has no headphone out)
> 
> ...




I would of course advocate restoring the Scott first. I think it's important to have a nice piece that you can count on to work right every single day.

@LugBug1 - that really is a nice looking Pioneer!!!!!

@Harriinj - that's a nice Marantz if you get it fixed up but you have some leaking caps there, so that's an unit that will need immediate attention before use.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> You guys are just a little crazy...in the best possible way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats Matt' I'm glad it turned out to be restored. Good deal on that.



harrinj said:


> my Marantz 4400 is AMAZING! it brings out BASS in AKG K702 like I have never heard them produce before, sound's dance around in your head like it's 3D, it's super cool. I would not mind getting a new faceplate for it (it's kinda beat up...) other than that its great except the capacitors on the PSB, I can't really tell if it's 'glue' or they decided to defy gravity and leak all over. I am afraid to attach speakers to it (I took a risk with my K702's) because there seems to be something happening in the right channel. The scope is green, I was hoping for blue but it's ok.




Nice marantz. Love the fact it has the scope.


Lugbug really digging the pioneer. That's a nice find!


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I would of course advocate restoring the Scott first. I think it's important to have a nice piece that you can count on to work right every single day.
> 
> @LugBug1 - that really is a nice looking Pioneer!!!!!
> 
> @Harriinj - that's a nice Marantz if you get it fixed up but you have some leaking caps there, so that's an unit that will need immediate attention before use.


 
  Thanks Rob.
   
  Im going to do that.  Meewoo has a kenwood supreme 500 which he may let me borrow to see if i enjoy the kenny sound.
   
  oh, by the way i dont know if you care but your pics on your SX-1980 thread at AK no longer appear.  Its like watching a movie with no video and only audio.  such a tease!


----------



## LugBug1

Thanks Rob and Moody 
   
   
  Been doing a little bit of a/bing with my Sansui. They're both in the same price bracket (mid end) so I'd say its a fair comparison. 
   
  Pioneer SX508; bigger sound-stage, more control of the lower end. A more 'whole' sound as opposed to singling out bass, mid, treb, the freq's blend perfectly as one. Effortless dynamics. More open. More authority. 
   
  Sansui 551; More organic sounding, sweeter, more sparkle at the very top (this may be because my Sansui is in very good condition inside). A more velvety sound. More 'tube' like. Perhaps a bit more depth in the mids. The Sansui makes my HD800's sound very planar like. Liquidy.
   
  Both amps have about the same amount of detail retrieval, with the pioneer just winning in regards to imaging. The instruments seem to have a little more space to breath.
   
  My K701's really sound amazing with the Pioneer, in all honesty they get very close to HD800 performance with electronic music and the soundstage is just crazy! I also love the way the HD800's respond to the Sansui's syrupy sound and depth. So it looks like I've got two very happy headphones at the mo with their respective partners


----------



## Skylab

bce22 said:


> Thanks Rob.
> 
> 
> oh, by the way i dont know if you care but your pics on your SX-1980 thread at AK no longer appear.  Its like watching a movie with no video and only audio.  such a tease!




They should be back now. Either I post too many pics, or you guys look at them too much! I hit my "free account" bandwidth limit on Photobucket, which I didn't even know existed. So I just had to fork over $30 for a year of unlimited bandwidth. Oh well.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Couple of daylight shots of the Pioneer because it was dark by the time I'd finished cleaning it yesterday.


 
   
  Yes, very handsome indeed! I love the silver face pioneers of this vintage. Just classy and simple.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thanks Rob and Moody
> 
> 
> Been doing a little bit of a/bing with my Sansui. They're both in the same price bracket (mid end) so I'd say its a fair comparison.
> ...


 
   
  Are your 800's modded by chance? I find my modded 800's sound thick and muddy through my Pioneer. If I turn the bass down a notch or two it sounds better... still not as good as you're describing. I would never call the lower end "controlled." Of course, mines never been opened since I bought it in 1980... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe I'll open the hood and snap some pictures of it.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Are your 800's modded by chance? I find my modded 800's sound thick and muddy through my Pioneer. If I turn the bass down a notch or two it sounds better... still not as good as you're describing. I would never call the lower end "controlled." Of course, mines never been opened since I bought it in 1980...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks bud,
   
  No mine aren't modded. They do sound warm, but when I'm saying 'more controlled' I mean in comparison to my Sansui. The Pioneer may not have the same level of control as a high end dedicated amp for example.
   
  I have found some vintage amps to be a little too warm and muddy with the HD800's however, (my Marantz 2220 springs to mind) and thats with them un-modded... So I can well believe that they could sound thick and muddy with a vintage amp if they have a had a damping mod.  
   
  Maybe give your Pioneer a good clean inside perhaps? Deoxit! It's magic stuff


----------



## roadcykler

I bet this thread is the busiest on Head-FI. I'm having a hard time keeping up with all of it but I skip over the soccer and beer stuff so that helps.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> I bet this thread is the busiest on Head-FI. I'm having a hard time keeping up with all of it but I skip over the soccer and beer stuff so that helps.


 
  Yup there's certainly a great buz on here at the mo! 
   
  I personally think its cool that more peeps are getting into vintage. Some may worry about the prices getting higher etc, but the way I see it is - The more people want older amps then the more of them that will be in circulation. People will be going through attics and getting these machines out there. Then when we are all buying and selling there will be lots more to choose from. And play with!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Thanks bud,
> 
> No mine aren't modded. They do sound warm, but when I'm saying 'more controlled' I mean in comparison to my Sansui. The Pioneer may not have the same level of control as a high end dedicated amp for example.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good feedback LugBug. Your descriptions help. I think I will do a little cleaning and give her another listen this weekend.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> I bet this thread is the busiest on Head-FI. I'm having a hard time keeping up with all of it but I skip over the soccer and beer stuff so that helps.


 
  BTW, it is worth noting that the word "soccer" was coined by the captain of the England National Team about a hundred years ago.  At that time, rugby was often called "rugger", so he thought "soccer" would be a good matching shorthand for "Association Football".  He was a colorful character - sort of the Beckham of his day - who kept a few British Sovereign gold coins in a pocket of his shorts, and would hand one to a teammate who scored (I am not making this stuff up).
   
  So, the people like John Oliver who go on about "You Americans and your word 'soccer' " are entirely wrong...


----------



## duncan1

Don't try to say -"soccer" in Scotland they will think you are a snob. Only the upper class that want to conform to what the US wants and by that I mean --There cant  be 2 types sport called the same name so they are trying to "brainwash" people in this country to say soccer- Don't you know that when   Scotland had its own Kings and Queens that in the middle ages a law went out to say to Scottish men that "playing-- Fitba"  was banned because it  interfered with the practice of sword manship and archery and that was Loooong  before the US existed. So Scotland at least holds previous rights to the word  Football--and that's a historical Fact.What England was doing for sport at that time I do not know but I don't think they were playing football in the Middle Ages --unless somebody can quote me from English history.And if visiting Glasgow dont go into a pub and start talking about soccer you might walk in but you could be carried out . Glaswegians dont like snobs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

So here is the question I have been asking myself lately: Am I into vintage because it is truly the best sound I can get for my money, or is it because it looks cool and is just fun to collect?
   
  I am beginning to think it is that later because none of them stay very long as I become dissatisfied with the sound fairly quickly (especially when I compare it to my main system which can't be helped).  So I began to wonder would investing in vintage high end equipment for a second system be a better value.  Surely some of the old Levinson, Threshold, Krell, Proceed, and Mcintosh equipment would easily outdo any of the vintage receivers (excepting maybe Pioneer SX1980, Fisher 500C, and few others).  But, for the price of a 1980 I could put together a vintage high end system that would probably better it.
   
  Some that I have looked at that are fetching reasonable prices are Levinson 27.5 or 23.5, Mcintosh 2105, Krell KSA 80, Proceed AMP5, and Threshold 400A.  Outstanding sound from all of these.  Of course I may just be kidding myself in thinking that I would stop searching if I picked up one of these units because we know audiophiles are never satisfied.  And yes, I realize there would be the additional work of fitting HPs to the speaker taps of these amplifiers - but still think they may be a better value.
   
  Not saying there is a right or wrong here - this is just my current thinking on the subject.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Well,thats defintely not the kind of help Im looking for.  Now if you said the "Kate Upton Vintage Electronic Moving Company" ................ definitely!


 
  Maybe if you let her listen to your HE-500s, she would be so impressed by the difference over her headphones...


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





duncan1 said:


> Don't try to say -"soccer" in Scotland they will think you are a snob. Only the upper class that want to conform to what the US wants and by that I mean --There cant  be 2 types sport called the same name so they are trying to "brainwash" people in this country to say soccer- Don't you know that when   Scotland had its own Kings and Queens that in the middle ages a law went out to say to Scottish men that "playing-- Fitba"  was banned because it  interfered with the practice of sword manship and archery and that was Loooong  before the US existed. So Scotland at least holds previous rights to the word  Football--and that's a historical Fact.What England was doing for sport at that time I do not know but I don't think they were playing football in the Middle Ages --unless somebody can quote me from English history.And if visiting Glasgow dont go into a pub and start talking about soccer you might walk in but you could be carried out . *Glaswegians dont like snobs.*


 
  Glaswegians don't like anybody! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 jk


----------



## MIKELAP

i have my SX750 plugged into my Burson Conductor's Dac and the Pioneer sounded great so i decide to compare the two with my go to tune and my Senns hd800 just to see the difference in sound between the two Well to my horror they sound very similar am i losing it tell me im imagining things !


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> So here is the question I have been asking myself lately: Am I into vintage because it is truly the best sound I can get for my money, or is it because it looks cool and is just fun to collect?
> 
> I am beginning to think it is that later because none of them stay very long as I become dissatisfied with the sound fairly quickly (especially when I compare it to my main system which can't be helped).  So I began to wonder would investing in vintage high end equipment for a second system be a better value.  Surely some of the old Levinson, Threshold, Krell, Proceed, and Mcintosh equipment would easily outdo any of the vintage receivers (excepting maybe Pioneer SX1980, Fisher 500C, and few others).  But, for the price of a 1980 I could put together a vintage high end system that would probably better it.
> 
> ...


 
  If you are anything like me, It's the change that's fun. Not necessarily aiming for better each time, just different. So if you pay all out on a high ender, it may not halt the urge for change later down the line... It's never ending 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The problem with using a second system, you are always going to look down at it, if it isn't up to scratch with your main. So in that sense yeah, I'd say go for it. 
   
  I have two systems but I'm constantly changing them around so there's not really a better one.


----------



## duncan1

Glaswegians are the most friendliest people in Scotland far more than Edinburgh. They will help you in nearly any situation . But they cant stand people putting on an act or being big headed or worse arrogant if you are that way inclined dont visit Glasgow. go East . I have seen too many big headed people end up in hospital or killed just for opening their  mouth. Witnessed it. and that includes any other Scots. so they are not biased. jut down to earth. In the 30s there used to be razor gangs in Glasgow large gangs fighting and killing with open razors. It got so bad the authorities had to clamp down and several ringleaders went to the US. One well known Scotsman got a job protecting Al Capone and he was the only one Capone trusted --look up your history in that direction. But after some years the US Government deported him. And for those criticising Glasgow --remember there was-is a large Southern Irish  population in Glasgow at least half the population so you will be criticising Eire as well.


----------



## Skylab

I like BOTH the sound and looks of my vintage gear, for sure...but that's always been the case for me, with modern gear as well. I like my gear to look good while its sounding good


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, the looks are important - but I am willing to tolerate a little less in the appearance if the sound is good enough.  Some of the Proceed gear falls into that category.


----------



## harrinj

When I turn my Marantz 4400 on, the transformer makes a big transformer buzz for a second. is this normal?


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> When I turn my Marantz 4400 on, the transformer makes a big transformer buzz for a second. is this normal?


 
  That makes me think that something like a capacitor is pulling a LOT of current for those few seconds. It shouldn't be major as long as you can't hear it in the music.
  How loud is it, by the way?


----------



## Skylab

harrinj said:


> When I turn my Marantz 4400 on, the transformer makes a big transformer buzz for a second. is this normal?




Did you see my post above? You have capacitors that have leaked. I wouldn't use that 4400 until its restored.


----------



## bce22

LugBug nice Pio!  Glad you like both.  once again comes down to horses for courses, however if you do decide to get rid of the sui you can always send it to this poor yankee and ill take a sixer of newcastle with it


----------



## 5aces

bce22 said:


> *"Kate Upton Vintage Electronic Moving Company"*




_________________


----------



## bce22

Now were talkin!
   
  I'll let her carry the Luxman, Ill carry the sui. The sui has a more awkward weight distribution.  wouldn't want her to hurt her back. And yes she can use the he-500s..... for 7 or 8 minutes or so.


----------



## Trav

Ok gents need some input. After drinking the Dynaco A 25 cool aid..yes I dig them that much; I'm thinking of trying a different receiver to see if my beloved Sansui 881 can be bested. Right now I'm looking at McIntosh 1700 vs Fisher 500c. In the past I drove a non pristine pair of Dynacos with a 3 wpc SET amp and while good it didn't possess the overall dynamics my 881 has with my mint condition Dynacos. Any pertinent advice is welcomed. Cheers!


----------



## MattTCG

I know that many including Moody sing the praises of the 500c and I'll admit that I haven't heard it so I can't say one way or the other. But I have heard the Mac. The 1700 is a serious butt kicker. I thought that it was outstanding...the Mac. 
   
  But with that being said, I don't know how much you'll be able to appreciate the difference on the a25's. Not that they aren't fantastic speakers, they are. But you don't need the heavyweight champ to bring out the best in them. If you plan to add harder to drive speakers in the future, then okay. That's my 2c anyway. 
   
  Finally, with all that being said I recommend that you buy both.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





trav said:


> Ok gents need some input. After drinking the Dynaco A 25 cool aid..yes I dig them that much; I'm thinking of trying a different receiver to see if my beloved Sansui 881 can be bested. Right now I'm looking at McIntosh 1700 vs Fisher 500c. In the past I drove a non pristine pair of Dynacos with a 3 wpc SET amp and while good it didn't possess the overall dynamics my 881 has with my mint condition Dynacos. Any pertinent advice is welcomed. Cheers!


 
  I'd go with the Fisher.  The McIntosh has a SS front end.  I'd go full tubes.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *SpeakerBox* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *So I began to wonder would investing in vintage high end equipment *for a second system* be a better value.*  Surely some of the old Levinson, Threshold, Krell, Proceed, and Mcintosh equipment would easily outdo any of the vintage receivers (excepting maybe Pioneer SX1980, Fisher 500C, and few others).  But, for the price of a 1980 I could put together a vintage high end system that would probably better it.
> 
> ...


 
  I've mentioned the same thought previously in the thread.  Posters on AK Forum thought that 80s high end equipment would be a better $$ value - in terms of sound quality - than any other gear.   In fact, I'm wondering what your *first system *is like, if Krell or Levinson gear would be a level below !


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





trav said:


> Ok gents need some input. After drinking the Dynaco A 25 cool aid..yes I dig them that much;


 
  Ooh... you are jogging my memory... I definitely had a pair of Dynaco A25s, and I seem to remember driving them from a Pioneer SA-7100 (at least it looks familiar from the pictures).  And I had a Dynaco Quadaptor that connected two rear speakers, and I used Dynaco A10s.  (From a terrible Garrard turntable, which I later replaced with the superb Pioneer PL-12D.)


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Did you see my post above? You have capacitors that have leaked. I wouldn't use that 4400 until its restored.


 
  I don't see anything from you mentioning it :/


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> LugBug nice Pio!  Glad you like both.  once again comes down to horses for courses, however if you do decide to get rid of the sui you can always send it to this poor yankee and ill take a sixer of newcastle with it


 
  Haha will do!


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> I've mentioned the same thought previously in the thread.  Posters on AK Forum thought that 80s high end equipment would be a better $$ value - in terms of sound quality - than any other gear.   In fact, I'm wondering what your *first system *is like, if Krell or Levinson gear would be a level below !


 
   
  Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> So here is the question I have been asking myself lately: Am I into vintage because it is truly the best sound I can get for my money, or is it because it looks cool and is just fun to collect?
> 
> I am beginning to think it is that later because none of them stay very long as I become dissatisfied with the sound fairly quickly (especially when I compare it to my main system which can't be helped).  So I began to wonder would investing in vintage high end equipment for a second system be a better value.  Surely some of the old Levinson, Threshold, Krell, Proceed, and Mcintosh equipment would easily outdo any of the vintage receivers (excepting maybe Pioneer SX1980, Fisher 500C, and few others).  But, for the price of a 1980 I could put together a vintage high end system that would probably better it.
> 
> ...


 
  I am certain that they sound awesome and for $4000 you can get the equivalent of ie 20k.  It may be a sweetspot but it isnt a cheap one.  None the less if you have the funds I am certain this gear would be awesome!


----------



## Skylab

harrinj said:


> I don't see anything from you mentioning it :/




http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/9345#post_9739353

Sorry man, but the caps really appear from that pic to have leaked somewhat badly, and given the behavior you describe, I think that unit needs to go to a competent repair shop.


----------



## LugBug1

Skylab is right harrinj, I thought it was glue at first glance but if the caps are raised like that then it's a sure sign of leakage. You've got a very sort after receiver there, it'll be worth getting it fixed.


----------



## palmfish

I opened up my SA-5800 and cleaned/treated the insides with Deoxit. I still don't think it sounds as good as I would like. The bass is still too heavy and loose and the treble is a bit screetchy/gritty to my ears. It's back in storage now with my other leftovers...
   

   

   
   
  And here's a picture of my other "leftovers" that are still in service. The cassette is probably on its way to the closet though since I never use it...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> I've mentioned the same thought previously in the thread.  Posters on AK Forum thought that 80s high end equipment would be a better $$ value - in terms of sound quality - than any other gear.   In fact, I'm wondering what your *first system *is like, if Krell or Levinson gear would be a level below !


 
   
  My main system has two Jeff Rowland Model 1s in bridged mono config, class A.  This gives me 240WPC (at least).  The Rowland amps have a mid-range that is to die for!   In addition my main source is a Kenwood KT7550 tuner that has been rebuilt with new diodes, black gate electrolytics, a new opamp, and Cardas wiring (and all the other mods from fmtunerinfo,com for the 7550).  I designed my own speakers to compliment the Rowland amps.  I also have DH labs silversonic running from the preamp to the amps and clear-day silver cables from amp to speakers because the amps can be a little dark and silver does brighten things up a bit.
   
  That said, I am not sure the Levinson 27.5 would be much of a step down.  I previously had a Proceed Amp3 that sounded real good (a Levinson design too) - but the Rowlands edged it out.  The Levinson 27.5 and 23.5 are considered to be some of the all time classic amps and can be had for $1500 - $2500 on the bay.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I opened up my SA-5800 and cleaned/treated the insides with Deoxit. I still don't think it sounds as good as I would like. The bass is still too heavy and loose and the treble is a bit screetchy/gritty to my ears. It's back in storage now with my other leftovers...


 
  Oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained.. However, it looks too nice to be stuck in a cupboard my friend. Maybe place her on a nice corner table in your living room with a vase of flowers on top! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's a shame the sound isn't to your liking. With me, as soon as I got into the 70's sound all my hp amps sounded dry and lifeless.. lacklustre and thin in comparison. They had more detail yes, but no balls! But of course its all down to personal preference. I've always preferred a warmer, more analogue sound. I was happy with tubes and the HD650's for about 5 years! 
   
  Though I am surprised at the 'screechy/gritty' description of the treble. Because mine is as smooth as a Dolphins foreskin. (sorry I'm running out of superlatives ) with the HD800's. 
   
  I know you are enjoying you're new crack amp at the moment and I'm sure that sounds better with the Senns, I'd love to try one of those myself. 
   




  (that Pioneer Elite looks nice as well)


----------



## palmfish

Yes, I am enjoying the Crack. I agree it makes my Asus Essence One sound dry and lifeless - an excellent description. It is easily the best sounding headphone amp I have ever owned and an excellent match with the HD800.


----------



## pelli

I just picked up this Kenwood KA 3500  today (better pics to follow).  In the process I also found someone to fully test and service my Akai AA 1050 and replace the bulbs. Nice little Sunday!


----------



## Oregonian

pelli said:


> I just picked up this Kenwood KA 3500  today (better pics to follow).  In the process I also found someone to fully test and service my Akai AA 1050 and replace the bulbs. Nice little Sunday!




Nice job. I've got two KA-5700's - love their sound. Great for headphones.......congrats.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> So here is the question I have been asking myself lately: Am I into vintage because it is truly the best sound I can get for my money, or is it because it looks cool and is just fun to collect?


 
   
  i too went thru this phase & came to the conclusion that best sound i can get for my preferences (& my budget ofcos) is the end goal of all this fuss. whether its vintage or semi vintage or modern or a combo of everything is no longer the issue. im in it for the music, for the endorphins kick, for the escapism & for the simple joy of relaxing after a long hard day at work.
   
to paraphrase a dead chinese guy... "it does not matter if the cat is black or white so long as it catches mice" . this simple quote captures my mood precisely.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> i too went thru this phase & came to the conclusion that best sound i can get for my preferences (& my budget ofcos) is the end goal of all this fuss. whether its vintage or semi vintage or modern or a combo of everything is no longer the issue. im in it for the music, for the endorphins kick, for the escapism & for the simple joy of relaxing after a long hard day at work.
> 
> to paraphrase a dead chinese guy... "it does not matter if the cat is black or white so long as it catches mice" . this simple quote captures my mood precisely.


 
   
  Ya, that's where I'm at.  If I can get high end vintage for the same price of buying and selling a bunch of receivers and fixing them up, that is where I am heading.


----------



## MIKELAP

Recently i got myself a nice Pioneer SX750 using it with my Burson Conductors Dac and my Senns HD800 and it sounds great so last night i say to myself ill compare the Burson and the Pioneer just for fun i must of plug and unplug my Senns in one amo and in the other 15 times im no  spring chicken so forget the golden ears by the way, and for the life of me they sounded very similar how the H....... that possible .the thing 36 years old compared to the  latest technology.!


----------



## Meewoo

Here is a good rare receiver for Oregonians, try to fetch it for $350. No affiliation!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPTONICA-SA-5901-Rare-Vintage-Top-of-the-line-Receiver-Silver-Face-MONSTER-/261271742752?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd5026920


----------



## roadcykler

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Here is a good rare receiver for Oregonians, try to fetch it for $350. No affiliation!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPTONICA-SA-5901-Rare-Vintage-Top-of-the-line-Receiver-Silver-Face-MONSTER-/261271742752?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd5026920


 
  If I recall correctly, Optonica was Sharp's upper line stuff. I'd would be interesting to have just because of it's uniqueness.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Recently i got myself a nice Pioneer SX750 using it with my Burson Conductors Dac and my Senns HD800 and it sounds great so last night i say to myself ill compare the Burson and the Pioneer just for fun i must of plug and unplug my Senns in one amo and in the other 15 times im no  spring chicken so forget the golden ears by the way, and for the life of me they sounded very similar how the H....... that possible .the thing 36 years old compared to the  latest technology.!


 
  Three reasons:
  (1) The SX750 sold for $425 in 1976, which is $1,745 in 2013 dollars.  The Burson Conductor cost $1,850 in 2013 dollars, so roughly the same.
   
  (2) The DAC in the Burson Conductor represents the huge advances in Digital technology over 37 years.   However, there has been less advances in Analog technology over that time period, because everyone is interested in Digital technology (evidently it is hard to find new students who are interested in studying analog electronic technology).   So, it is less surprising that the analog portion of the Conductor is not significantly better than the analog portion of the SX-750.
   
  (3) The SX750 represents some of the very best electronics design of 1976 (some AK posters think the SX_50 series is the best Pioneer products).  Don't forget that there were plenty of terrible garbage receivers sold in 1976 that died long ago and are melted down...


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Three reasons:
> (1) The SX750 sold for $425 in 1976, which is $1,745 in 2013 dollars.  The Burson Conductor cost $1,850 in 2013 dollars, so roughly the same.
> 
> (2) The DAC in the Burson Conductor represents the huge advances in Digital technology over 37 years.   However, there has been less advances in Analog technology over that time period, because everyone is interested in Digital technology (evidently it is hard to find new students who are interested in studying analog electronic technology).   So, it is less surprising that the analog portion of the Conductor is not significantly better than the analog portion of the SX-750.
> ...


 
  Thanks for your input .


----------



## jasonb

Yup, the SX-750 rocks! I'm still loving mine. Hopefully the ODAC I have on the way makes it even better.


----------



## petemac110

Quote: 





skylab said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/9345#post_9739353
> 
> Sorry man, but the caps really appear from that pic to have leaked somewhat badly, and given the behavior you describe, I think that unit needs to go to a competent repair shop.


 
   
  Negative dear sir... that's the glue which many manufacturers used to hold larger capacitors in place prior to soldering, and to provide extra support to prevent vibration during transit from weakening the legs of the larger capacitors. It's an extremely common mistake to make... people see the glue and the first thing that springs to mind is 'leaking capacitors'. In any case, the electrolyte in capacitors is not brown or tan in colour.
   
  It is definitely worth inspecting the glue to see whether it has affected any adjacent components. Sansui, in particular, used a glue which became corrosive over time, eating away adjacent components. For this reason, any AU-x17 series amps which haven't had the capacitors replaced and glue cleaned off (and affected components replaced) are living on borrowed time.


----------



## calipilot227

Following in Skylab's footsteps (a dangerous path, I'm well aware), I thought I'd share my reel to reel deck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not an amp per se, but right at home with the silver face, large toggle switches, and gorgeous peak meters.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Following in Skylab's footsteps (a dangerous path, I'm well aware), I thought I'd share my reel to reel deck
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  NICE !!! Nothing screaming vintage as a reel to reel deck.


----------



## ssrock64

I used to record on a reel-to-reel deck in a friend's basement studio. It was a lot more fun (and a lot more frustration) than using digital recording techniques, especially when you added in analog EQ.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> +1.
> 
> Yep, Kardon has those problems, but it still has very nice sound.
> Does Grado require amp? I had SR325i once and didn't find amping adds large margin benefit.
> ...


 
  Thank you for all your advices, I'll start looking locally for vintage receiver.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Ya, that's where I'm at.  If I can get high end vintage for the same price of buying and selling a bunch of receivers and fixing them up, that is where I am heading.


 
   
  only issue with that is that high end vintage gear (eg SX12xx - 1980) arent at bargain basement prices anymore plus there's the added (not insignificant) cost of refurb. even after its restored to original condition, are we positive that its on a competitive level with the good modern & semi modern stuff? i got my DK amp at alittle more than the price of a SX1250 (& certainly less than a fully restored one) so i know theres bargoons to be had if one has the funds, is ready & patient. definitely not as easy as some mite think.
   
  Quote: 





roadcykler said:


> If I recall correctly, Optonica was Sharp's upper line stuff. I'd would be interesting to have just because of it's uniqueness.


 
   
  i think Skylab has some experience with Optonica. maybe u mite wanna PM him or even ask him here for his opinion. Optonica is certainly not as prised as some of the other stuff here so theres deals to be had.
  Quote: 





calipilot227 said:


> Following in Skylab's footsteps (a dangerous path, I'm well aware), I thought I'd share my reel to reel deck
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  following Skylab is more than dangerous. it requires multiple sound rooms & a very very very accommodating partner (something most of us mere mortals arent as endowed with)! lol. goodluck & yes, your pioneer R2R deck is the shytes!!!!


----------



## Meewoo

For knowledge sake, check those gears and the contents!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Kyocera-PL-901-Turntable-SME-V-Tonearm-Aesthetix-Io-Signature-Phono-Stage-/261272893825?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd513f981


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  FYI - "Vintage" simply means 'from a specific year'.  It's from wine, where you could just buy a brand's "Red Table Wine" with no year stated, or a "2009 Red" where 2009 is the "vintage".  In modern culture, it has come to mean "anything not sold today as new merchandise" and in home furnishings, means pretty much the same as "retro".
   
  Anyway, "high end vintage gear" does not mean SX1250s, it means 1980s Mark Levinson, Krell, Threshold, and even B&K ST140s.  A Pioneer receiver is not "high end".   TOTL and high end are not the same, in fact, usually the best buy is Bottom-of-the-Line High End.


----------



## jasonb

Just got the ODAC in, 
   
 
  
 
  
 Lets see if it can bring some more magic to the SX-750.


----------



## Skylab

scottiebabie said:


> i think Skylab has some experience with Optonica. maybe u mite wanna PM him or even ask him here for his opinion. Optonica is certainly not as prised as some of the other stuff here so theres deals to be had.
> 
> following Skylab is more than dangerous. it requires multiple sound rooms & a very very very accommodating partner (something most of us mere mortals arent as endowed with)! lol. goodluck & yes, your pioneer R2R deck is the shytes!!!!




I had an early 80's Optonica integrated for a while that was VERY impressive both in terms of build and sound quality. It weighed a ton in spite of being low profile and sounded killer! 

And yeah, Capilot, you now have it BAD  But seriously RTR is a phenomenal medium and I'm sure you will enjoy it a lot. Nice looking deck!


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Just got the ODAC in,
> Lets see if it can bring some more magic to the SX-750.


 
  Report back soon! I'm thinking about getting a new ODAC to use with my Dynaco gear. You got the JDS Labs version?


----------



## jasonb

Yea, the JDS Labs version. I won it new, but open box on ebay for $115. It definitely sounds VERY good. Makes the Q701 sound even more detailed and airy, but it is not making them sound harsh or shrill or anything. Definitely a step up from the DAC section of the Fiio E17. 
   
  Edit: So far, very impressive! Definitely a good sized step up from the Fiio E17's DAC section. Very detailed, but still very musical. It didn't transform the sound into a bright digital sounding mess like a few people claim. It isn't making my Q701 unlistenable like I've heard some claim either. I'm not going to give a huge detailed review yet, but so far I'm very happy with the difference for a mere $115. I will say that it is definitely a big step up from the E17 in every way. Tighter bass, bigger soundstage, better separation, definitely better treble detail.  
   
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Report back soon! I'm thinking about getting a new ODAC to use with my Dynaco gear. You got the JDS Labs version?


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Yea, the JDS Labs version. I won it new, but open box on ebay for $115. It definitely sounds VERY good. Makes the Q701 sound even more detailed and airy, but it is not making them sound harsh or shrill or anything. Definitely a step up from the DAC section of the Fiio E17.


 
  Everything you buy makes me want to copy you. The SX-750 makes me want to get the one at the local audio shop despite not knowing what kind of condition it's in inside, and now your new DAC makes me want one for myself.
   
  You better not sing the praises of an Orpheus anytime soon; I'll go broke.


----------



## jasonb

Don't listen to anything I say, I don't know what I'm talking about. 
   
  And I'll never be able to afford an Orpheus, so don't worry there. 
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Everything you buy makes me want to copy you. The SX-750 makes me want to get the one at the local audio shop despite not knowing what kind of condition it's in inside, and now your new DAC makes me want one for myself.
> 
> You better not sing the praises of an Orpheus anytime soon; I'll go broke.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Less expensive than the ODAC is the Schiit Modi, an asynchronous USB DAC designed by Mike Moffat, who used to design $10,000 gear.  It costs $99 direct from schiit.com - cheap because no middle man.   Made entirely in Southern California (queue surfing music).   If nothing else, it is more recent technology than the ODAC, even if you don't find an acclaimed designer to be a better choice than an anonymous designer...
  PS  Schiit has a 14-day no questions asked return policy.  The modi has a 15% restocking fee, since the $99 is too low to absorb the cost themselves...


----------



## jasonb

That's cool. Maybe I'll try it or the Bifrost someday. 
  Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Less expensive than the ODAC is the Schiit Modi, an asynchronous USB DAC designed by Mike Moffat, who used to design $10,000 gear.  It costs $99 direct from schiit.com - cheap because no middle man.   Made entirely in Southern California (queue surfing music).   If nothing else, it is more recent technology than the ODAC, even if you don't find an acclaimed designer to be a better choice than an anonymous designer...
> PS  Schiit has a 14-day no questions asked return policy.  The modi has a 15% restocking fee, since the $99 is too low to absorb the cost themselves...


----------



## pelli

Quote: 





meewoo said:


> Here is a good rare receiver for Oregonians, try to fetch it for $350. No affiliation!
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/OPTONICA-SA-5901-Rare-Vintage-Top-of-the-line-Receiver-Silver-Face-MONSTER-/261271742752?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd5026920


 
   



skylab said:


> I had an early 80's Optonica integrated for a while that was VERY impressive both in terms of build and sound quality. It weighed a ton in spite of being low profile and sounded killer!


 
   
  I have an Optonica SM-7305 integrated amp from the late 70's that I LOVE.  I use it as my speaker amp in my bedroom.  It is a nice piece of kit and built like a tank.  I bet the SA-5901 sounds great and it sure is a looker too!


----------



## palmfish

This very topic (ODAC and Modi) came up on the Bottlehead forums...

http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4380.0.html

Interesting subjective opinions about both, as well as the surprising $30 Fiio DAC.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> This very topic (ODAC and Modi) came up on the Bottlehead forums...
> 
> http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,4380.0.html
> 
> Interesting subjective opinions about both, as well as the surprising $30 Fiio DAC.


 
  I don't see the Modi mentioned at all.  The main comparison is to a Nuforce DAC.
   
  BTW, I mentioned the Modi again, mainly due to ssrock64's comment "I'll go broke."


----------



## harrinj

Might get a nice Pioneer SX-737 on CL for $100. I wont say where since some of you are in the vicinity and one of you might betray me out of spite.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> FYI - "Vintage" simply means 'from a specific year'.  It's from wine, where you could just buy a brand's "Red Table Wine" with no year stated, or a "2009 Red" where 2009 is the "vintage".  In modern culture, it has come to mean "anything not sold today as new merchandise" and in home furnishings, means pretty much the same as "retro".
> 
> Anyway, "high end vintage gear" does not mean SX1250s, it means 1980s Mark Levinson, Krell, Threshold, and even B&K ST140s.  A Pioneer receiver is not "high end".   TOTL and high end are not the same, in fact, usually the best buy is Bottom-of-the-Line High End.


 
   
  My sentiments, exactly!


----------



## LugBug1

High end just means expensive. Or 'out of reach' for most of us. I'd still rather own a vintage TOTL Pioneer or Sansui than anything Mark levinson has designed... Most his stuff looks like it could have been designed by Amstrad  Plus you a talking about a decade after most of great machines of the 70's.  
   
  Most of us on this thread are interested in late 60's to very early 80's. Thats 'Vintage'. Really couldn't care what the dictionary or Wikipedia say's it means. There's no need for Etymology when discussing audio. It's all metaphorical and analogical anyways..


----------



## ssrock64

I'm fully aware of all the DAC options out there and I've owned Schiit, JDS, NuForce, and Benchmark gear before, but whenever Jason starts typing it seems to make everything a lot more compelling.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> High end just means expensive. Or 'out of reach' for most of us. I'd still rather own a vintage TOTL Pioneer or Sansui than anything Mark levinson has designed... Most his stuff looks like it could have been designed by Amstrad  Plus you a talking about a decade after most of great machines of the 70's.
> 
> Most of us on this thread are interested in late 60's to very early 80's. Thats 'Vintage'. Really couldn't care what the dictionary or Wikipedia say's it means. There's no need for Etymology when discussing audio. It's all metaphorical and analogical anyways..


 
   
  Well, for me it all boils down to where I can get the best sound for my money.  If I can get a piece of vintage Levinson/Krell/Audio Research/etc. gear for the cost of a refurbished SX1250 (and I can) that is what I would prefer to do as it will almost certainly outperform any of the early to mid seventies receivers (although I will confess to never having heard an sx1980 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## palmfish

speakerbox said:


> it will almost certainly outperform any of the early to mid seventies receivers




I don't think this is necessarily true.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I don't think this is necessarily true.


 
   
  Lets just call it my opinion after hearing many receivers and many old high end pieces - although I admit there is probably an exception somewhere.


----------



## Silent One

If listening rooms could talk, what would they say? Likely, their comments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




would be ALL over the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




room. In my view, when making these model/class comparisons, the enjoyment factor shouldn't be dismissed and left in the corner.
   
  Some of these Seventies sensations offer a very moving operating experience and aesthetic appeal. Sometimes, this is true even when I'm dusting the receivers with no session in sight. A knob gets moved here, a switch gets flicked there and rekindling comes quickly!
   
  And then, there's the diminutive Sansui G-22000. When I do decide to have a listen and power up 'Baby sinister' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I melt like chocolate left outside a July picnic!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





silent one said:


> If listening rooms could talk, what would they say? Likely, their comments
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think "Baby Sinister" may be one of the exceptions I alluded to earlier.


----------



## Silent One

You are kind.


----------



## MrQ

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> High end just means expensive. Or 'out of reach' for most of us. I'd still rather own a vintage TOTL Pioneer or Sansui than anything Mark levinson has designed... Most his stuff looks like it could have been designed by *Amstrad*  Plus you a talking about a decade after most of great machines of the 70's.
> 
> Most of us on this thread are interested in late 60's to very early 80's. Thats 'Vintage'. Really couldn't care what the dictionary or Wikipedia say's it means. There's no need for Etymology when discussing audio. It's all metaphorical and analogical anyways..


 

  You're hired


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mrq said:


> You're hired


 
  hahahah


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





mrq said:


> You're hired


 
  lols! sometimes i do feel we get caught up in semantics rather than purpose, style rather than substance. most of us do not have unlimited budgets nor unlimited space. dont get me wrong, i love vintage gear for looks, for nostalgia, for its incredible build/iron & for the deals we can score. however they are 30-50yrs+ old & most need a complete refurb to sound anywhere close to their intended designs.
   
  take all that into the equation with final objective of finding the best sound for the best value & the waters gets a little muddy. plus audiophilia by definition is the art of the abstract. all i know is i want the best sound for my rather limited budget, be it vintage, semi vintage or modern.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> High end just means expensive. Or 'out of reach' for most of us. I'd still rather own a vintage TOTL Pioneer or Sansui than anything Mark levinson has designed... Most his stuff looks like it could have been designed by Amstrad  Plus you a talking about a decade after most of great machines of the 70's.


 
  At the point they were released and sold as new, both the Pioneer SX-1980 and the Nelson Pass designed Threshold gear were 'out of reach' for most of us.
   
  Nowadays, both are several decades old, and can be obtained for a fraction of their price.  A 1977 Threshold power amplifier (full Class A) is about $700 that retailed for $2,000 ($7,700 in 2013 US dollars).   Preamplifier is similarly priced.  If you go to "budget" high-end gear like Adcom and B&K, you can pay less than that.
   
  In the early 1980s, consumer electronics exhibited a general decrease in quality, due to widespread desire to lower cost and utilize cheap digital parts.  The high-end had no such change, and in fact, the existence of budget gear like Adcom was no doubt due to the poorer quality in the 80s of consumer gear.   So, used vintage 80s high end gear represents a good value for your £ in terms of sound quality.
   
  Now it is certainly true that the receivers are better living room furniture, but as much as I like Pioneer and Sansui, if graphic arts design is your only criterion, it is hard to beat:
   

  the lettering, the brushed knobs and buttons, the four corner posts, the tuning wheel, and of course, the blue dial...


----------



## SpeakerBox

That is so pretty - it could make me forget why I turned it on!


----------



## ssrock64

Got an SX-780 for -$20 today. You read that right. I was paid $20 to obtain this. It has very little use from new, and other than some dust it's basically brand-new inside. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Let's just hope it doesn't explode like my ST-120 did.


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Got an SX-780 for -$20 today. You read that right. I was paid $20 to obtain this. It has very little use from new, and other than some dust it's basically brand-new inside. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Let's just hope it doesn't explode like my ST-120 did.


 
  that's cool! I am wanting to get the SX-737. I'm gonna offer $65 I think. he/she wants $100 for it. These Pioneer's are cool looking. The ones with the black faces like the SX-737 look incredible with blue LED's.


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> that's cool! I am wanting to get the SX-737. I'm gonna offer $65 I think. he/she wants $100 for it. These Pioneer's are cool looking. The ones with the black faces like the SX-737 look incredible with blue LED's.


 
  I'm more of a yellow-light fan, but I may have to transition this unit to green bulbs to match the CD player. One of the bulbs is also out, so I need to replace at least one anyways.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Got an SX-780 for -$20 today. You read that right. I was paid $20 to obtain this. It has very little use from new, and other than some dust it's basically brand-new inside. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Let's just hope it doesn't explode like my ST-120 did.


 
   
  Congrats man. Hows it sound?


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Congrats man. Hows it sound?


 
  It's a little warmer than what I'm used to with the modern equipment that I have, but it doesn't lose much detail at all to add warmth. It's a sound signature that I can really get into. I'll have to try it out with some higher-impedance cans than I'm using at the moment to get a real feel for what it can do, though. The volume knob has barely gone past seven-thirty with the MDs.
   
  As long as this unit holds up and doesn't have any problems right away, I don't think I'll have my PAT-4 for long.


----------



## jasonb

Glad you like it.
   
  I don't really consider my 750 to be warm, but since my last amp was just a Fiio E17, I could be wrong. I had already noticed more detail in the music from the 750, even when I was still using the E17 as a DAC only. Now with the ODAC, detail retrieval is a definite non issue. I just got a big promotion at work today, so maybe an HD800 is in my future. 
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> It's a little warmer than what I'm used to with the modern equipment that I have, but it doesn't lose much detail at all to add warmth. It's a sound signature that I can really get into. I'll have to try it out with some higher-impedance cans than I'm using at the moment to get a real feel for what it can do, though. The volume knob has barely gone past seven-thirty with the MDs.
> 
> As long as this unit holds up and doesn't have any problems right away, I don't think I'll have my PAT-4 for long.


----------



## ssrock64

My background was in studio-environment equipment when I first got a few DACs, so we probably have different perspectives of warmth.


----------



## jasonb

Very possible...
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> My background was in studio-environment equipment when I first got a few DACs, so *we probably have different perspectives of warmth.*


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Glad you like it.
> 
> I don't really consider my 750 to be warm, but since my last amp was just a Fiio E17, I could be wrong. I had already noticed more detail in the music from the 750, even when I was still using the E17 as a DAC only. Now with the ODAC, detail retrieval is a definite non issue. I just got a big promotion at work today, so maybe an HD800 is in my future.


 
  And you will like the duo i like it alot.


----------



## Silent One

congrats on the promo, jasonb 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 now i know who to sell my future gears to


----------



## jasonb

If I do get an HD800, it won't be for at least a few months. Maybe it'll be a christmas gift to myself. It does seem to be the next logical step if I want a better version of the AKG Q701 though. I do love my Q701, so we will see.
  Quote: 





mikelap said:


> And you will like the duo i like it alot.


----------



## jasonb

Do you have an HD800 that you are expecting to sell eventually?
  Quote: 





silent one said:


> congrats on the promo, jasonb
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> congrats on the promo, jasonb
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I call dibs on the 22000!!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Do you have an HD800 that you are expecting to sell eventually?


 
   
  No, I don't actually. But your rapid rise at work places you
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 in my target market. In mid-to-late September, I have the Stax SR-009/WEE combo coming in and I'm looking forward to seeing what I'll get when paired to either my Sansui or Pioneer. To be clear, I got the Stax for my vintage vacuum tube amps. But, I might as well play around 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and experiment with 'em!


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I'm more of a yellow-light fan, but I may have to transition this unit to green bulbs to match the CD player. One of the bulbs is also out, so I need to replace at least one anyways.


 
  Your unit will probably look stellar with either!


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Do you have an HD800 that you are expecting to sell eventually?


 
  hey I have an HD800! but it's not exactly what you are talking about  H/K HD800 CD player. lol


----------



## eke2k6

Hi guys. Anyone here familiar with the Sherwood RX-4109? I just bought it for $27 on ebay to be my replacement headphone amp.


----------



## tribestros

I really need to get my Marantz serviced. The background hum is annoying me. Same level it's always been, but it's starting to drive me insane. But at the same time, I really need a turntable since my old vintage one broke.
   
  This hobby is going to bankrupt me. I'm a college kid.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Got an SX-780 for -$20 today. You read that right. I was paid $20 to obtain this. It has very little use from new, and other than some dust it's basically brand-new inside. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Let's just hope it doesn't explode like my ST-120 did.


 
  You are hereby nominated for Deal of the Year ! !


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jasonb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I just got a big promotion at work today, so maybe an HD800 is in my future.


 
  Wow, congratulations dude !   
   
  I have heard many excellent things about the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog headphones, and he likely will accept T50RPs with Alpha Pads for upgrades at lower cost at the end of September.  So stay tuned (for what some are calling the "closed HD800s").


----------



## harrinj

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> I really need to get my Marantz serviced. The background hum is annoying me. Same level it's always been, but it's starting to drive me insane. But at the same time, I really need a turntable since my old vintage one broke.
> 
> This hobby is going to bankrupt me. I'm a college kid.


 
  That's what my 430 does HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM... I need to re-cap it and new power filter capacitors put in.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





silent one said:


> No, I don't actually. But your rapid rise at work places you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm - did you think
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that Stax bit out ? Electrostatics need much higher voltage and lower current to operate than normal dynamic speakers or headphones. SR 009 will not work off Sansui or Pioneer - they do not provide polarising voltage/bias and even if they did, voltage output is FAR too low.
  You will need a transformer box ( an adapter in Stax' parlance, like SRD7 for example ) to go in between receiver(normal power amp) and ESLs. Or replace both by a dedicated high voltage "direct drive" amplifier such as Stax' numerous offerings or ( I assume, never saw one in my life ) the WEE .
   
  The words in audio starting with TRANS.....   elicit peculiar behaviour from me. If the next letter after the *S* is *I*, everything remains normal and calm. But if it is an *F*





 - meaning it will be a transformer - by the time you pronounce *O*, my hand will be on my holster, by the time *R *gets pronounced, my imaginary Magnum will be pointed dead center of that *corpus non delicatess*, at *M *I will fire , at _*E *_I will be blowing the smoke off the barrel, at *R *the gun will be back in the holster, *peace and order restored* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Now, (vintage) tube amps (with the exception of OTL designs ) first have step down transformer, then Stax adapter has step up transformer - that is why I carry two imaginary Magnums...
   
  Funny thing - as much as I object to any transformer anywhere in the audio signal path, in some midrange centric systems they can sound quite decent. But it is like a flavour of some tea I would never consider buying again - tried out of curiosity and forgotten for all practical purposes.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Got an SX-780 for -$20 today. You read that right. I was paid $20 to obtain this. It has very little use from new, and other than some dust it's basically brand-new inside. So far, I'm liking what I'm hearing. Let's just hope it doesn't explode like my ST-120 did.


 
   
  Dude, get that Pioneer off that cd player quick before it's crushed!!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *analogsurviver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Hmm - did you think
> ...


 
   
*Silent notes made audible... and visible.*
   
  Transformers? Step up, step down?? I've a strong feeling, next time I pass by that Jazzercise class...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. In all seriousness, your concern and experience is noted. Let's talk briefly about my playmates and play dates, shall we?
   
  In consideration of my vintage irons (solid state and tube), I plan:
   
  - HE-6 for both the Sansui & Shindo
  - Efficient speakers for the Shindo; vintage speakers for the Sansui
  - Stax for an electrostatic amp
   
  The Stax/WEE purchase is an immediate stop, made out-of-order based on opportunity. Voila... my rhyme & reasons! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm really looking forward to all of these pieces as they fall.


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> You are hereby nominated for Deal of the Year ! !


 
  I didn't really believe my luck myself. So far, it hasn't had any sort of issues whatsoever.
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Dude, get that Pioneer off that cd player quick before it's crushed!!


 
  I do need to rearrange the desk so I can put each component in its own place, but for the time being the Onkyo is strong enough to hold the 780. There's no vents or anything on top being blocked, either.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Silent notes made audible... and visible.*
> 
> Transformers? Step up, step down?? I've a strong feeling, next time I pass by that Jazzercise class...
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats on getting the ultimate Headphone bro!


----------



## tribestros

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> That's what my 430 does HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM... I need to re-cap it and new power filter capacitors put in.


 
   
  Mine can only be heard in silence and really on headphones only. I use it as a headphone amp, though, in addition to stereo.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





silent one said:


> *Silent notes made audible... and visible.*
> 
> Transformers? Step up, step down?? I've a strong feeling, next time I pass by that Jazzercise class...
> 
> ...


 
  Nice selection of playmates to choose from indeed !  Which vintage speakers are you considering for the Sansui
   
  I can perfectly understand "out of order based on opportunity" purchase(s) - sometimes it is "now or never" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with vintage rare gear, sometimes it is just too great an opportunity in financial sense to pass up...
   
  I would like to audition 009 at some point - 007 and its matching tube amp did not convince me enough to even consider direct exchanging it for Lambda Pro/SRM1MK2, let alone paying the difference in price. With a better amp, things might have been different. 009 is a more convincing animal they say, enjoy yours !


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





tribestros said:


> Mine can only be heard in silence and really on headphones only. I use it as a headphone amp, though, in addition to stereo.


 
  Yeah I've got a couple of amps that have a very slight hum. But it also depends what headphones I'm using... My K701's don't produce the hum at all. But the HD800's will highlight anything! I sometimes think it may be just the noise floor of a particular amp rather than there being anything wrong with it... Because remember these amps aren't designed with sensitive headphones in mind.


----------



## MIKELAP

i have a question  for you guys which involves a Pioneer SX750 a littledot mk3 that i want to use as preamp with the Pioneer and the Burson Conductors dac out to go to computer is it possible to set this up ill include picture of the 3 amps  . Thanks                                                                                                                                                 

   
  .


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> i have a question  for you guys which involves a Pioneer SX750 a littledot mk3 that i want to use as preamp with the Pioneer and the Burson Conductors dac out to go to computer is it possible to set this up ill include picture of the 3 amps  . Thanks
> 
> 
> .


 
  Yeah Mike, you can add any dac or pre-amp to your receiver as they all have rca outs and your receiver has Aux/tape rca inputs. There is a pre amp out of your Burson so you may not need the LD pre. I'm assuming this will be for speaker use as a pre amp will not be needed for hp's unless you want a little more control of the volume pot.


----------



## palmfish

It would help if you told us what you're trying to do. If your computer has the Essence STX in it, the Burson Conductor DAC is superfluous. Also, since the Burson is also a head amp, you don't really need the LD III. 

Personally, I think its highly unlikely that the Burson DAC is any better than your STX. And the LD is likely not any better an amplifier than the Burson or the Pioneer.

So, if you are using your SX-750 as a headphone amp, I personally would get rid of the Burson and LD and go straight from the STX to your Pioneer.


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Congrats on getting the ultimate Headphone bro!


 
   
  Thanks, but don't be surprised to see it on the F/S forum in March. There's only so much pie, and the slice Stax took was intended for speakers.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Pretty much what these guys said. I like to use my A2 as a pre-amp with my high powered vintage receivers in order to give me more play on the volume pot. For me, it's nice to have a pre in the chain to give you some flexibility.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It would help if you told us what you're trying to do. If your computer has the Essence STX in it, the Burson Conductor DAC is superfluous. Also, since the Burson is also a head amp, you don't really need the LD III.
> 
> Personally, I think its highly unlikely that the Burson DAC is any better than your STX. And the LD is likely not any better an amplifier than the Burson or the Pioneer.
> 
> So, if you are using your SX-750 as a headphone amp, I personally would get rid of the Burson and LD and go straight from the STX to your Pioneer.


 
  Thank you.lol.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> Yeah Mike, you can add any dac or pre-amp to your receiver as they all have rca outs and your receiver has Aux/tape rca inputs. There is a pre amp out of your Burson so you may not need the LD pre. I'm assuming this will be for speaker use as a pre amp will not be needed for hp's unless you want a little more control of the volume pot.


 
  Yes it would be for speakers i want to use the littledot as preamp to see  how tubes sounds with the pioneer and of course i need a dac . the way its setup now the DAC OUT  of the Burson is plugged in AUX on sx750 and volume is controlled by pioneer where would i plug in the littledot TAPE ? would i be using the volume of the pioneer or the littledot you . Thanks for your input


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Yes it would be for speakers i want to use the littledot as preamp to see  how tubes sounds with the pioneer and of course i need a dac . the way its setup now the DAC OUT  of the Burson is plugged in AUX on sx750 and volume is controlled by pioneer where would i plug in the littledot TAPE ? would i be using the volume of the pioneer or the littledot you . Thanks for your input


 
  In that case then you will need to have the Little dot in between your Burson and the Pioneer. Rca outs (Dac out) from the Burson - inputs of LD amp - LD pre outs - Pioneer Aux. 
   
  Oh, and I would have as loud as poss on the pre amp to find a comfortable level on the Pioneer  You'll be able to use both volumes this way Both LD and Pioneer


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> Nice selection of playmates to choose from indeed !  Which vintage speakers are you considering for the Sansui
> 
> I can perfectly understand "out of order based on opportunity" purchase(s) - sometimes it is "now or never"
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, analoguesurviver. Because my audio plans are continually revised on-the-fly, I use Rhodia pencil on Rhodia paper. And a BIG eraser! Long story made shorter, the SR-009 was never a consideration, speakers were. Nor was the Shindo monoblocks & preamp on the list, the Yamamoto A-09S and HE-6 were. The HiFiMan's were going to see double-duty and serve the vintage Sansui and Pioneer, along with the Shindo blocks. Also, I didn't particularly care for having to buy a dedicated amp for the 009's either, so they were dropped from the list early on. Now that I own them, they still might get dropped.
   
  I ordered the HE-6 from my consultant but learned after a week that he wouldn't be available. In audio, we want things like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




yesterday! And I didn't want to sling the cans around country - Receive them, then ship them back out to get re-cabled; hardwired. My cat would have dolled them up, then shipped 'em out. And when I realized the Dollar/Yen rate had changed yet again, I said_ "Hmmm..."_
   
  But a few weeks prior, the day before I ordered the Yammo, the Shindo blocks suddenly came to my attention. My current living arrangements will not allow for speakers. However, that day will 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 come. For the Sansui G-22000, I'd like to try Klipschorns, Cornwalls, Heresy's and other vintage fare. No need for me to worry about the room and treatment if I don't know where I'll be living. I'm prepared to buy-sell-trade vintage speakers and take it from there. Play it by ear, if you would... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  On the other hand, I'm waiting on a pair of DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 88's to pop-up pre-owned for the F2a Sinhonia blocks.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> It would help if you told us what you're trying to do. If your computer has the Essence STX in it, the Burson Conductor DAC is superfluous. Also, since the Burson is also a head amp, you don't really need the LD III.
> 
> Personally, I think its highly unlikely that the Burson DAC is any better than your STX. And the LD is likely not any better an amplifier than the Burson or the Pioneer.
> 
> So, if you are using your SX-750 as a headphone amp, I personally would get rid of the Burson and LD and go straight from the STX to your Pioneer.


 
  Since you did not have a smiley, I can only assume that either you are of the "everything sounds the same" crowd, or you have heard the Conductor and dislike it.
   
  The Essence STX is better than DACs costing less than $99, otherwise there is no way that it can compete with the DAC in the Conductor.  Even more so if you use the USB cable to create an asynchronous connection to the Burson DAC (which makes a big difference IMHO).
   
  To Mikelap - having read some more about the Burson Conductor, their philosophy is to use discrete design - no opamps or ICs - so it makes even more sense that their amp sounds similar to 1970s electronics because those are also discrete.
   
  If you are serious about trying the LD with the Pioneer, then the best way would be:
   
  PC (via USB) -> Burson -> LD -> Pioneer AUX input
   
  all using RCA interconnects (except for the USB).  That keeps the number of connections to a minimum.


----------



## LugBug1

(Silent one) Nevermind Stax, you need stacks of bricks and a roof over your head!! 
   
  We worry about you in that hotel room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


 
   
  Get your new digs then you can sort your new set up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  (just playing mother


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Since you did not have a smiley, I can only assume that either you are of the "everything sounds the same" crowd, or you have heard the Conductor and dislike it.
> 
> The Essence STX is better than DACs costing less than $99, otherwise there is no way that it can compete with the DAC in the Conductor.  Even more so if you use the USB cable to create an asynchronous connection to the Burson DAC (which makes a big difference IMHO).
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for your time it appreciated


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> In that case then you will need to have the Little dot in between your Burson and the Pioneer. Rca outs (Dac out) from the Burson - inputs of LD amp - LD pre outs - Pioneer Aux.
> 
> Oh, and I would have as loud as poss on the pre amp to find a comfortable level on the Pioneer  You'll be able to use both volumes this way Both LD and Pioneer


 
  Thanks man its appreciated


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> (Silent one) Nevermind Stax, you need stacks of bricks and a roof over your head!!
> 
> We worry about you in that hotel room
> 
> ...


 
   





 Yeah, I'm in hot pursuit! Have not found the right opportunity yet. Sep/Oct perhaps...


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





silent one said:


> For the Sansui G-22000, I'd like to try Klipschorns, Cornwalls, Heresy's and other vintage fare.


 
   
  let us know how that goes. Klipsch Heritage horns have a tendency for harshness toward the top end & as such, loves good quality tubes esp. SET. they're super efficient so 5-10W drives em to house rumbling levels. would love to know how it goes with Sansui's penultimate TOTL monsta receiver.


----------



## Silent One

I shall. Efficiency is one of the reasons for the Klipsch selections, so I could leash 'em up to both the Sansui and Shindo for trial and adventure. The Shindo monoblocks put out 40 wpc. Still, would like to get my grubby lil' hands on some vintage Altec or Pioneer for the Sansui.


----------



## kstuart

I purchased a Kenwood amp on Ebay (more about this after it arrives, including pictures, the auction pictures were poor, which is why it ended up being a good deal... it had a excellent review with headphones a couple of years ago in this thread).   It is missing the power cord, which plugs into:

  Anyone know where I can get one of these?  Is there a name/term/jargon for this specific two-prong cord, so that I can search for it ?
   
  Any help would be appreciated.
   
  BTW, it could be a "mod" - the bottom of the receptacle appears to overlap the white line while the top does not, which might indicate a job done by hand (perhaps due to original cord breaking at the entry point).  But same questions still apply.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Thanks, but don't be surprised to see it on the F/S forum in March. There's only so much pie, and the slice Stax took was intended for speakers.


 
  congratz silent!
   
  if i am ever back in SoCal i know where im stopping!  i want to see pics of the setup for sure!


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> I purchased a Kenwood amp on Ebay (more about this after it arrives, including pictures, the auction pictures were poor, which is why it ended up being a good deal... it had a excellent review with headphones a couple of years ago in this thread).   It is missing the power cord, which plugs into:
> 
> Anyone know where I can get one of these?  Is there a name/term/jargon for this specific two-prong cord, so that I can search for it ?
> 
> ...


 
  whenever the terms "cord" or "cable" come up my first stop is monoprice.check there first.
   
  congratz on the kenny.  are you willing to divulge the model at this time?


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> let us know how that goes. Klipsch Heritage horns have a tendency for harshness toward the top end & as such, loves good quality tubes esp. SET. they're super efficient so 5-10W drives em to house rumbling levels. would love to know how it goes with Sansui's penultimate TOTL monsta receiver.


 
  That's true for some of them, but not all. And even more confusing, it's true for some of the same models and not all. The original cornwall don't suffer from the harsh highs, but the cornwall II are totally different which is why klipsch went with a much better titanium diaphragm in the cornwall III. The same can be said for the heresys. There a many different versions of those as well with the current version also using titaniums.
   
  But on the plus side, even the heritage speakers that does suffer from harshness in the highs, there are upgrades. Bob crites makes upgraded diaphragms for pretty much all of them, and they are a huge upgrade over the stock ones. They are pretty cheap too. He's pretty much an icon in the klipsch community. His tweets are capable of producing some of the most life like highs I've heard while remaining silky smooth as well. His crossovers a pretty awesome too.
   
  Diving into some heritage klipschs does take a bit of research, But it's well worth it. They are the best value I've ever encounter in speakers, meaning a good properly setup pair can compete with modern speakers costing thousands with a total investment of only a few hundreds.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> whenever the terms "cord" or "cable" come up my first stop is monoprice.check there first.
> 
> congratz on the kenny.  are you willing to divulge the model at this time?


 
   
  It looks similar to an IEC inlet sans the ground prong.  I have not seen this type before though.


----------



## scottiebabie

@moodyrn, i bought an Audio Space Galaxy 300b amp in anticipation of getting a pair of LaScalla's, LaBelle's or even a good Cornwalls. however that idea went down the drain (for now) since i got meself a pair of Yami NS1k. 
   
  i understand exactly what u said about vintage speakers being fantastic values. my NS1k can compete with alot of higher end speakers that i have heard....AND i dont even have them properly set up as yet!!!


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Since you did not have a smiley, I can only assume that either you are of the "everything sounds the same" crowd, or you have heard the Conductor and dislike it.
> 
> The Essence STX is better than DACs costing less than $99, otherwise there is no way that it can compete with the DAC in the Conductor.  Even more so if you use the USB cable to create an asynchronous connection to the Burson DAC (which makes a big difference IMHO).
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't belong to any particular "crowd." But I happen to believe that opamps and inexpensive DACs can sound as good as (or the same as) DACs buried within discrete circuits. Using a 70's vintage Pioneer receiver as an amplifier, I doubt if the difference between the Burson DAC and the Asus DAC matters - if it exists at all.
   
  All my opinion, of course.


----------



## jasonb

This current setup I'm using is really something. The ODAC feeding the Pioneer SX-750 powering an AKG Q701 is really sounding great. It's truly in a different league than what I've used before. Both separates easily blow the E17 out of the water. To top it all off, the whole setup was pretty inexpensive. $40 for the SX-750, $115 for the ODAC, and $240 for the Q701. For just under 400 bucks it's truly incredible. 

The detail, resolution, and speed are unreal. The bass with the bass knob at +2 is really surprising, considering how most people view the Q701' bass. I'd say at this point it's just slightly north of neutral along with plenty of lower end extension, and along with the great texture they are known for. If anything, the ODAC seems to have smoothed out the Q701's sometimes edgy treble, while still being just a tad bright and very revealing. The mids are still right where they should be and also very detailed. 

I am very very happy with this current setup. But of course, we will see how long it takes before I get the desire to upgrade again.


----------



## jasonb

palmfish said:


> Using a 70's vintage Pioneer receiver as an amplifier, I doubt if the difference between the Burson DAC and the Asus DAC matters - if it exists at all.
> 
> All my opinion, of course.




So you are saying that since he is using a vintage Pioneer as an amp that the signal being fed to it doesn't matter? You're saying the Pioneer isn't worthy of a good source?


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I don't belong to any particular "crowd." But I happen to believe that opamps and inexpensive DACs can sound as good as (or the same as) DACs buried within discrete circuits. Using a 70's vintage Pioneer receiver as an amplifier, I doubt if the difference between the Burson DAC and the Asus DAC matters - if it exists at all.


 
  And you live in the NW .... hmmm ....


----------



## palmfish

jasonb said:


> So you are saying that since he is using a vintage Pioneer as an amp that the signal being fed to it doesn't matter? You're saying the Pioneer isn't worthy of a good source?




No, Im saying that, in my opinion, the differences in sound between boutique discrete products like the Burson Conductor and mainstream products like your ODAC and SX-750 are way overblown by many audiophiles. 95% of what we hear is determined at the very beginning and very end of the chain, ie: the recording in the studio and the transducer in your home. The other 5% gets an inordinate amount of attention, money, and drama from audiophiles.

I will say that with a 40 year-old receiver of unknown history, there is a strong possibility that it probably isnt performing at 100% without a complete restoration.


----------



## palmfish

kstuart said:


> And you live in the NW .... hmmm ....




Thanks for the compliment, but Im not even an engineer. Just a regular blue collar guy with a love of music, the silver faced toys of my youth, and a healthy scepticism of snake oil and pseudo science.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





moodyrn said:


> That's true for some of them, but not all. And even more confusing, it's true for some of the same models and not all. The original cornwall don't suffer from the harsh highs, but the cornwall II are totally different which is why klipsch went with a much better titanium diaphragm in the cornwall III. The same can be said for the heresys. There a many different versions of those as well with the current version also using titaniums.
> 
> But on the plus side, even the heritage speakers that does suffer from harshness in the highs, there are upgrades. Bob crites makes upgraded diaphragms for pretty much all of them, and they are a huge upgrade over the stock ones. They are pretty cheap too. He's pretty much an icon in the klipsch community. His tweets are capable of producing some of the most life like highs I've heard while remaining silky smooth as well. His crossovers a pretty awesome too.
> 
> Diving into some heritage klipschs does take a bit of research, But it's well worth it. They are the best value I've ever encounter in speakers, meaning a good properly setup pair can compete with modern speakers costing thousands with a total investment of only a few hundreds.


 
  Truly +1 to Moodryn's excellent post.  
   
  I  found the cornwall Is to be slightly shouty with certain rock recordings only (digital 24bit flac) in my smallish room (12 x 14) with pergo floors and an area rug.  Symlhony, acoustic and jazz sounded amazing right off the bat.
   
  My Cornwalls are from 1975.  I went to Bob Crites and bought new crossovers and tweeters for about $250 total.  Boy what a difference.  Bass is much more tight and hits harder.  Highs are much more smooth and natural with all music.  Best $250 I've spent on speakers yet!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> congratz silent!
> 
> if i am ever back in SoCal i know where im stopping!  i want to see pics of the setup for sure!


 
   





 And leave that fantastic volume of vintage wares behind just to check out my humble investment? Sure, come on down. If I'm to take this stuff out of storage, then we might as well have a mini-mini... mini-meet and call a few head-fier's up!


----------



## Argybargy

mikelap said:


> i have a question  for you guys which involves a Pioneer SX750 a littledot mk3 that i want to use as preamp with the Pioneer and the Burson Conductors dac out to go to computer is it possible to set this up ill include picture of the 3 amps  . Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do not use the little dot as a preamp unless you are 100% positive that there are DC blocking caps on the input of your amp. There are no output caps for the preamp outs. Theres a chance you could blow your speakers with a big surge of DC.


----------



## bce22

Oh Boy, don't get me started a Silent - Mini - Head-fi -Meet would be one for the ages!  G-22000 ... check,  don't need to go any further


----------



## Silent One

I need to find a pre-owned HE-6 for it. Attractively price!


----------



## PhoenixG

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Thanks for the compliment, but Im not even an engineer. Just a regular blue collar guy with a love of music, the silver faced toys of my youth, and a healthy scepticism of snake oil and pseudo science.


 
  Did someone ask for an engineer? Haha! I hate to be non-specific, but every link in the chain counts at some level, and they each have a quantifiable effect on the sound. Will I spend a ton of money on solid gold cables? No. But a good recording, a good amp, and good speakers are important. Every link you add in the chain increases the overall distortion exponentially, and you can quickly multiply distortion to audible levels. 
  Let's talk about DAC's - at their simplest, they can be very cheap and not so good for a number of build-quality related reasons. It's not too complex to build a good one and I think it's possible to find one that passes the signal with minimal distortion at a decent price. It doesn't take much power to put out a 1v line, but if you have inferior components, you can still mess up a decent DAC.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I need to find a pre-owned HE-6 for it. Attractively price!


 
  I think we all have that need !


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





argybargy said:


> Do not use the little dot as a preamp unless you are 100% positive that there are DC blocking caps on the input of your amp. There are no output caps for the preamp outs. Theres a chance you could blow your speakers with a big surge of DC.


 
  Thanks for that i saw this yesterday somewhere regarding dc coupled amps but i forgot about it will seek answers
  Thanks again


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kstuart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I think we all have that need !


 
   






 I want a seller to entice me. It's not like I need more headphones than _sneaks._ If it's a local member that's long been curious about vintage integrated amps and receivers, I'll throw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




one in! And just like that, they'll be posting here in no time. 
   
  The HD650/Sansui/Pioneer has proved to be quite serviceable. So, if I'm to walk away from my bowl of tea in the afternoon, that price had better be good for the HiFiMan cans! _Besides, I'll need a few extra dollars to get 'em dolled-up._


----------



## palmfish

phoenixg said:


> Did someone ask for an engineer? Haha! I hate to be non-specific, but every link in the chain counts at some level, and they each have a quantifiable effect on the sound. Will I spend a ton of money on solid gold cables? No. But a good recording, a good amp, and good speakers are important. Every link you add in the chain increases the overall distortion exponentially, and you can quickly multiply distortion to audible levels.
> Let's talk about DAC's - at their simplest, they can be very cheap and not so good for a number of build-quality related reasons. It's not too complex to build a good one and I think it's possible to find one that passes the signal with minimal distortion at a decent price. It doesn't take much power to put out a 1v line, but if you have inferior components, you can still mess up a decent DAC.




The engineer remark was in reference to a certain vocal "objectivist" who lives in the NW. It isnt me.

I agree 100% with your comments. I will only add that finding a good recording, good amp, and good speakers is easier now than ever before. Good amps and speakers are cheap and plentiful.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> Good amps and speakers are cheap and plentiful.


 
  Actually they always have been (at least since the rise of stereo to prominence in 1958).


----------



## palmfish

kstuart said:


> Actually they always have been (at least since the rise of stereo to prominence in 1958).




Not nearly as cheap and plentiful as they are now. Opamps and Chinese manufacturing have made the current state of the art available to anyone.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





silent one said:


> I need to find a pre-owned HE-6 for it. Attractively price!


 
   
  I have a very nice he4 that I can paint a 6 in place of the 4...same thing.


----------



## gikigill

Nice try Matt but they are very different beasts. 

The 6 handily out classes a lot of headphones, I listened to the 500 and the 6 together and it was a huge difference. There was no competition between them.


----------



## gikigill

Did I mention my 6 are powered by a vintage Sherwood pushing 110W RMS/ch.


----------



## Skylab

Properly amped, the HE-6 can be the best headphone in the world. It was the HE-6 that made me buy a SX-1980, originally. I wanted to be able to deliver enough power right from the headphone jack. And the HE-6 paired with the SX-1980 is pretty special as a combo, I will tell you.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Thanks for that i saw this yesterday somewhere regarding dc coupled amps but i forgot about it will seek answers
> Thanks again


 
   
  Quote: 





argybargy said:


> Do not use the little dot as a preamp unless you are 100% positive that there are DC blocking caps on the input of your amp. There are no output caps for the preamp outs. Theres a chance you could blow your speakers with a big surge of DC.


 
  I sent an email regarding this to David zhezhe of Littledot this is his reply :

  The Little Dot MK III s not recommended to be used with DC coupled power amplifiers, which sounds like your SX750 is.

 Best Regards,
 David
  
 [size=10pt] - davidzhezhe[/size]


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> Properly amped, the HE-6 can be the best headphone in the world. It was the HE-6 that made me buy a SX-1980, originally. I wanted to be able to deliver enough power right from the headphone jack. And the HE-6 paired with the SX-1980 is pretty special as a combo, I will tell you.




Not to derail my own thread, but I completely agree. I heard the he6 a while back paired with a high end audio research tube amp, and it was at least as good as the 009/blue Hawaii combo I listened to. That headphone literally have no ceiling when it comes to upstream components.

Well maybe it's not as much as a derailment after all because that leads me to this. There are a slew of vintage amps I heard that gets you real close to the best I've heard them. And like you, Skylab one of the biggest reasons why I only look into totl vintage gear is the potential of a new he6 amp. And for me that question has pretty much ended with the 500c. 

It's very reminiscent of what I heard from the audio research, while being more neutral tonal wise. Then when I want a different flavor I can take I can take it to either my office or bedroom with either the sansui or kenwood. And they sound fabulous on both.


----------



## Silent One

Y'all are leaving me hungry... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and I just finished breakfast! Can't wait for the HE-6/Sansui introduction...


----------



## kstuart

So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).  
   
  He received it and he reports that it was a broken solder joint.  When he re-soldered the joint, the distortion went away.  He readjusted the DC offset and bias and has shipped it back to me.
   
  So, the morale(s):
   
  * If you are looking to fix an audio problem in vintage electronics, be sure to look for bad or broken solder joints.
   
  and
   
  * Shipping of old gear is liable to shake something loose.
   
  And it is cool that the guy wanted to stand behind his work...


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Properly amped, the HE-6 can be the best headphone in the world. It was the HE-6 that made me buy a SX-1980, originally. I wanted to be able to deliver enough power right from the headphone jack. And the HE-6 paired with the SX-1980 is pretty special as a combo, I will tell you.


 
   
  The sx-1280 is the first amp that I feel gives the he-4 enough power to sound like it's capable of. I thought that the lyr was enough...it wan't. Even the 9090db can match "excite" the he-4 like the sx-1280 is able to. This combo is the first real "Ah, I've arrived" moment that I've had in quite some time.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).
> 
> He received it and he reports that it was a broken solder joint.  When he re-soldered the joint, the distortion went away.  He readjusted the DC offset and bias and has shipped it back to me.
> 
> ...


 
  That's great news and I'm glad it worked out for you. It's really nice to see sellers stand behind what they sell, instead of trying to absolve themselves of all responsibilities such as in my case with the 2325. And speaking of that, I tried my best to get the seller to make things right with me because I would have had to wait over a week for ebay to step in to resolve things themselves which what ended up happening. All I asked him for was a return label so that I could send it back for a refund. I would have much rather did that instead of waiting for ebay to decided.
   
  Well things didn't work out well for that seller. I guess he didn't realize ebay have access to all messages sent and received. After I escalated, the seller was beyond rude and used profanity against me, and it was very uncalled for. Not once did I get nasty or rude with him. He just couldn't understand why I would hold him responsible when he advertised one thing and shipped me something completely different. Well since he refused any type of compromise, ebay just refunded me and I don't have to send it back. Normally I would have offered to send it back if the seller paid for shipping. But given how rude, ugly, and his unwillingness to work things out or take responsibility for his actions, I'm not doing anything.
   
  I will take much of what I paid him and get this thing fixed myself.  I have some very nice vishay sprague caps power supply caps on the way now. Then at least I will end up with a working receiver. This thing has been sitting in a box for two weeks because I wouldn't dare plug anything into it for fear it would fry both my speakers and headphones.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).
> 
> He received it and he reports that it was a broken solder joint.  When he re-soldered the joint, the distortion went away.  He readjusted the DC offset and bias and has shipped it back to me.
> 
> ...


 
  Awesome story.
   
   Does it break any forum rules to list the seller's name?  I think that in the world of vintage electronics it's nice to know that someone on "The Bay" operates like that.  I'd surely buy something from him rather than another seller knowing how he treated you.


----------



## audiosceptic

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Properly amped, the HE-6 can be the best headphone in the world. It was the HE-6 that made me buy a SX-1980, originally. I wanted to be able to deliver enough power right from the headphone jack. And the HE-6 paired with the SX-1980 is pretty special as a combo, I will tell you.


 
   
  My Pioneer A-27 Integrated that I had Hamad from Amplifier Surgeries rebuild and the HE-6 are a special combo as well. I'm very happy with this setup.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Awesome story.
> 
> Does it break any forum rules to list the seller's name?  I think that in the world of vintage electronics it's nice to know that someone on "The Bay" operates like that.  I'd surely buy something from him rather than another seller knowing how he treated you.


 
  When it actually arrives, and I try it and it works fine, then I will post it for you.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





audiosceptic said:


>


 
  Wow, rare class A Pioneer A-27, 1st in this thread!


----------



## petemac110

Glad to hear that he fixed it! I've got a feeling that I know exactly who the seller was. My father and I recently repaired an AU-717 which suffered a similar fate during the journey from the US to Australia. The soldering wasn't quite up to scratch and a broken solder joint was the result.
   
  Enjoy your 417 - they are a nice 'gateway drug' into the Sansui AU-X17 sound. 
   
  Quote: 





kstuart said:


> So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).
> 
> He received it and he reports that it was a broken solder joint.  When he re-soldered the joint, the distortion went away.  He readjusted the DC offset and bias and has shipped it back to me.
> 
> ...


----------



## 5aces

gikigill said:


> Nice try Matt but they are very different beasts.
> 
> The 6 handily out classes a lot of headphones, I listened to the 500 and the 6 together and it was a huge difference. There was no competition between them.




I listened to the HE-6 on a 2012 matching HiFiMAN Amplifier vs. HE-500 on a 2012 NuForce DAC-9 and honestly preferred the HE-500 with this match up. 
Long ways from vintage, just saying the headphones readily present themselves very differently on alternative gear.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The 9090db is 125 wpc while the SX-1280 is 185 wpc.  Do you think the 50% greater power is responsible for the difference with your HE-4 ?  Or something else ?


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *audiosceptic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My Pioneer A-27 Integrated that I had Hamad from Amplifier Surgeries rebuild and the HE-6 are a special combo as well. I'm very happy with this setup.


 
  Wow - someone on AK had this amazing praise for that amp:
  Quote: 





> I have one of these Pioneer Series 20 A-27's and I consider it the best amp in my collection!
> 
> I also have in my collection for comparison; Sansui AU-9500, AU-20000, AU-919, CA-F1/BA-F1, Pioneer Elite A-71, A-91D, Pioneer SA-9100, SA-9900, SPEC 1/SPEC 4 and several high end receivers from; Marantz, Mcintosh, Pioneer, Sansui and Yamaha.
> 
> I'm sure you recognize that all the equipment I have is highly regarded and represents quality at or near TOTL for their time but the Pioneer Series 20 A-27 stands above them all. The Pioneer Series 20 pieces will be the very last gear I sell if ever! Even the Series 20 tuner I have sounds better than my Sansui TU-X1! It is phenominal equipment that was built by Pioneer to make a statement and it does so with authority. I have done a lot of side-by-side listening in different rooms of my house with several pairs of speakers and the Series 20 gear always seems to come out on top!


----------



## moodyrn

kstuart said:


> The 9090db is 125 wpc while the SX-1280 is 185 wpc.  Do you think the 50% greater power is responsible for the difference with your HE-4 ?  Or something else ?




I can't speak for Matt, but I will say the totl pioneers I've owned have by far the most powerful headphone out I've encountered. Great for orthos but hisses with most everything else. But they can drive orthos from the headphone out like no other. IME that has a lot to do with it. My 907 sounds better than the 1280, but for my he6, I use the speaker taps and the sound is exceptional. Speaker taps aren't needed for the pioneer. But I prefer the 907 from the speaker taps though.


----------



## claybum

My best HE6 rig is my only high end dac, the Antelope Zodiac> Pioneer SA9800> HE6 using stock cable from headphone out. I'm amazed at the bass texture and nuances, smooth midrange and treble and lots of detail. I have an adapter on the way for speaker tap listening so it will be interesting to see what benefits I get with that configuration. Even with my vintage iron and high end cans, I believe my dac to be super important to my setup. It is a step above the mid fi dacs I tried and really makes the vintage units sing.


----------



## Silent One

Which Zodiac DAC metal do you have, Silver, Gold or the new Platinum?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> The 9090db is 125 wpc while the SX-1280 is 185 wpc.  Do you think the 50% greater power is responsible for the difference with your HE-4 ?  Or something else ?


 
   
  Honestly, I'm not sure but yes that would be my guess. The other difference between the two receivers is that the sx-1280 seems to have the implementation of the tone controls down perfectly. I'm able to adjust the bass and treble without distorting any of the other signature and it just sounds "right." I can't pull this off with the Sansui.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure but yes that would be my guess. The other difference between the two receivers is that the sx-1280 seems to have the implementation of the tone controls down perfectly. I'm able to adjust the bass and treble without distorting any of the other signature and it just sounds "right." I can't pull this off with the Sansui.


 
  could be wrong here but i seriously doubt the difference is due to wattage. im guessing its more a synergistical match up to one's preferences thangy. also dont forget that even though both are of similar vintage, the time sensitive components -esp caps- may not be of similar wear&tear. 
   
  that said, ive always found Sansui more suited to brighter cans & vice verse for Poineers.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> could be wrong here but i seriously doubt the difference is due to wattage. im guessing its *more a synergistical match *up to one's preferences thangy. also dont forget that even though both are of similar vintage, the time sensitive components -esp caps- may not be of similar wear&tear.
> 
> that said, ive always found *Sansui more suited to brighter cans & vice verse for Poineers*.


 
  +1!! Amen!!
  Synergy match is long forgotten in this thread!!!!


----------



## Skylab

I also totally agree.  I liked the Pioneers best for my headphones but I have stayed away from bright headphones. If I had still owned HD800 I might have liked them best with Sansui.
   
  It's also VERY true that with vintage gear, there can be a lot of variation due to aging parts, just as Scottie said (another reason I am Captain ReCap!).


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I also totally agree.  I liked the Pioneers best for my headphones but I have stayed away from bright headphones. *If I had still owned HD800 I might have liked them best with Sansui.*
> 
> It's also VERY true that with vintage gear, there can be a lot of variation due to aging parts, just as Scottie said (another reason I am Captain ReCap!).


 
  Yeah I'm finding the HD800's have better synergy with the Sansui house sound. I wouldn't say that my Sansui's are much less bright than my Pioneers, only they seem less edgy. Softer treble, and this works better with the Senn's. 
   
  I also totally agree that the condition of parts inside amps will affect performance. For example my Sansui 505 and 551 both made from the same period. Both have the same sound signature and amp parts, only my 551 which is time-warp condition sounds more 'sprightly' and faster. 
   
  Oh, and great Pioneer Rob! Never seen that model before.


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> could be wrong here but i seriously doubt the difference is due to wattage. im guessing its more a synergistical match up to one's preferences thangy.* also dont forget that even though both are of similar vintage, the time sensitive components -esp caps- may not be of similar wear&tear.*
> 
> that said, ive always found Sansui more suited to brighter cans & vice verse for Poineers.


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> I also totally agree.  I liked the Pioneers best for my headphones but I have stayed away from bright headphones. If I had still owned HD800 I might have liked them best with Sansui.
> 
> *It's also VERY true that with vintage gear, there can be a lot of variation due to aging parts, just as Scottie said (another reason I am Captain ReCap!).*


 
   
  That's one important thing to keep in mind. After owning several vintage stock pieces and a couple of restored units, I'm now a huge believer in recapping/restoring. For example, Matt liked his pioneer so much over the sansui he sold it. I own the same two units, and my pioneer looks so mint, it almost looks brand new. But internally is where it counts, and my completely restored 9090db beats the 1280 pretty handily. So that's one very important thing to always consider. 
   
  Also it's a given that most technicians frown at doing recapping and thinks its a wast of money. The reason is, they are only concerned with whether or not the amp works. So as long as the caps aren't completely dried up they are good to go. The thing is, the caps may function well, but the tolerance which usually is around 5-10% is off spec. That's why people like echowars over at ak have a two year waiting list. They are technicians who are also audiophiles. So they aren't just concern whether it's working or not, but if all of the parts are operating at the manufacturers specification. And even if they are, they still look at ways to improve upon the original design.
   
  And technicians like that are extremely hard to find which is why I'm have a hard time finding one I trust.


----------



## MIKELAP

When cleaning switches and all on my SX750 what would be a safe procedure so when i plug it in again nothing blows is it to spray a very small amount and work it in and do you spray compressed air to dry it dont really know . What would be a safe peocedure. Thanks.


----------



## scottiebabie

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> When cleaning switches and all on my SX750 what would be a safe procedure so when i plug it in again nothing blows is it to spray a very small amount and work it in and do you spray compressed air to dry it dont really know . What would a safe peocedure. Thanks.


 
   
  if it were me, i wouldnt blow pressurized air into switches at all as the dirt/dust particles can get lodged deeper inside. instead i would spray/soak them with self drying cleaning products like Deoxit. i will spray air on the circuit boards, caps, resistors, transformers to clean em up of dust. also i would use Deoxit & cotton swab to clean any & all contact points eg RCA/headphone jacks as well. u maybe surprized how dirty they can get.


----------



## MattTCG

Is this any good?


----------



## kstuart

Quote:


matttcg said:


> Is this any good?


 
  So they have Vintage Receivers on the Space Station now ?  Cool !!


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> When cleaning switches and all on my SX750 what would be a safe procedure so when i plug it in again nothing blows is it to spray a very small amount and work it in and do you spray compressed air to dry it dont really know . What would be a safe peocedure. Thanks.


 
  The Idiot's Guide to Using Deoxit is at:
   
  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005
   
  (No implications there - I know far less about it than is explained in the article!)


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Is this any good?


 

 More info sir..........................what is it?


----------



## MattTCG

Pioneer sx1000td.


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry guys. I'm on my phone and pics are coming in upside down.


----------



## Oregonian

Well a bit shout out to joseph69 for the following.....................given to me for the cost of a pack and ship job.  Thank you my new friend!
   
  It's at a friend who's a Fisher guy to determine why it won't put out any sound.  This is the CA-880 integrated amp from 1981 - 100 wpc - a gorgeous specimen as Joe kept this in pristine shape. Only bad thing about it is it's not silver.................. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  More to report when I get it working.


----------



## kstuart

When your SX-1280 was brand new, that SX1000td was already old !   Evidently capacitor coupled.


----------



## MattTCG

Yeah, but here we don't necessarily call old a bad thing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Almost into the tube era I think.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Yeah, but here we don't necessarily call old a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Was that a '60's child?  It's a rarity for sure.


----------



## MattTCG

Not sure but I think about 69' or 70'. I can have it for a song basically. Maybe tomorrow I'll go over with some headphones and give it a listen. One bonus is that it comes with the wood case and the condition is almost mint.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> The Idiot's Guide to Using Deoxit is at:
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005
> 
> (No implications there - I know far less about it than is explained in the article!)


 
  Great thanks.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> Not sure but I think about 69' or 70'. I can have it for a song basically. Maybe tomorrow I'll go over with some headphones and give it a listen. One bonus is that it comes with the wood case and the condition is almost mint.





If you hadn't already, you might want to research it over at ak. That receiver isn't highly regarded. I've seen a few if them on cl really cheap. The last one was on there for a couple of months for 50.00 with no takers. Given what you already have, you may be disappointed.


----------



## MattTCG

Moody...you are probably right. I did an ebay search and an AK search. The "sold price" on ebay was never more than $100 and the AK results were not very favorable. Oh well...it's always good to keep your radar out for these old Pioneers.


----------



## Silent One

Addiction isn't pretty.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





silent one said:


> Addiction isn't pretty.


 
  Funny you mention that, as i just started watching "The Wire" for the first time and i have it on right now.
   
  But to be honest, sometimes its not only pretty but damn beatiful! (the following is not my Scott 399 receiver).


----------



## Silent One

Yes, when things work out...


----------



## gikigill

My Onkyo A-5100 lording over the Sherwood 260B.


----------



## gikigill

Night shots


----------



## Oregonian

gikigill said:


> My Onkyo A-5100 lording over the Sherwood 260B.




Like the looks of that..........how do the JVC's sound out of that? Bass must be amazing.


----------



## gikigill

Haven't tested the JVC SZ2000 although I fear the bass might finally crack my skull
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Tested with the Fischer,s above and the AD900X. The Fischer's sound balanced while the AD900X pumps up the bass.
   
  The amp sounds sweet and balanced until you hit the bass knob, No veiled mids/treble and  I shudder to hear what it will do on a bassy closed can!!
   
  Listening to ATBs 9PM Till I Come is a great experience. The bass goes deep and hits hard on the open air AD900X
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The VU meters obviously greatly enhance the whole experience. Lets just say I am looking for a second A-5100


----------



## bce22

gikigill,
   
  i love the look of the onkyo and it looks great at night.  if i ever come across one im definitely buying it.


----------



## gikigill

It's very simple but elegant. Iron punch in a velvet glove with huge power and a sweet sound. 

Might just seal off my vintage collection with an endgame Spec 4 and an AU-9900. The Onkyo is very well built, not endgame but very close. Just pressing the power button is so satisfying


----------



## Oregonian

gikigill said:


> It's very simple but elegant. Iron punch in a velvet glove with huge power and a sweet sound.
> 
> Might just seal off my vintage collection with an endgame Spec 4 and an AU-9900. The Onkyo is very well built, not endgame but very close. Just pressing the power button is so satisfying




If I'm not mistaken Spec 2 is a bit higher than Spec 4. 250 vs 150 wpc (yep, have one) and its meters show a peak of 500 per side. How nuts is that? How would you ever push a speaker to that level? Concert time!


----------



## jasonb

The setup I am using right now sounds end game to me. It is the best thing that I have ever heard, and I've been into audio all my life(I'm only 28 though). I have a feeling that eventually I'll have to buy an HD800 though. I like this Q701 a lot and it seems like the only other open can that sounds similar, but better is going to be the HD800. Right now though, I am really enjoying what I have. The ODAC is great, the SX-750 is powerful and sounds great, and the Q701 is doing mostly what I want it to. It's sounding better than I thought the Q701 was possible of sounding.


----------



## 5aces

jasonb said:


> The setup I am using right now sounds end game to me. It is the best thing that I have ever heard...I am really enjoying what I have.




This exact situation has led many men to the altar of marriage, a sensation of utter satisfaction.
A much more enviable state of consciousness than equipment lust could ever provide.

A music lover's romance.


----------



## Meewoo

Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  What speaker is that in picture?
   
  And I quoted some thing from AK's recent hot thread.
  Quote: 





> I don't believe 99% of the guys who post hot chicks in their avatars get anywhere near those women.


----------



## LugBug1

^^ yup, thats why I always have ugly men in my avatar. Keeping it real


----------



## Trav

lugbug1 said:


> ^^ yup, thats why I always have ugly men in my avatar. Keeping it real


Lmao


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Funny you mention that as my wife and I are halfway through Season One of the "The Wire" (for the first time).
   
  The producers/writers and many of the actors go on to do a still-continuing HBO show called "Treme", which is different from "The Wire" in being the most music-centric TV show ever.   The actor who plays McNulty's partner Bunk in "The Wire" plays a New Orleans trombone player.  Many famous New Orleans musicians play themselves (and play their instruments).
   
  It is basically about the music scene, the restaurant scene and the homicide police scene in New Orleans (so the latter carries over from "The Wire").  Famous TV restaurant scene writer and chef Anthony Bourdain writes all the restaurant scenes (and btw, his travel show on CNN resumes in two weeks).


----------



## steppenout

This amp is a game changer...I'm so impressed!


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> What speaker is that in picture?




Ahh, my man Meewoo, white shag carpet in a paneled rec room, sizzling company and you're straining for the make of loudspeaker? :rolleyes:

I know the underwear brand , if that matters...lahwf !

I've been fortunate to have beautiful women in/out of my life.
Dreaming via an avatar doesn't make it real, a silhouette and memories of the person does (not in Bangkok either).
A figure so unlike a speaker box, my girl.
God Bless you Meewoo, you are one dedicated audiophile, Cheers!


----------



## WNBC

Congrats.  Which speakers will you pair it with?  Probably my biggest regret was selling a AU-717 + TU-717 + Pioneer HPM-100 as a complete set.  All items were mint.  But then again it was way too much for an apartment set up with neighbors below 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.      
   
   
  Quote: 





steppenout said:


> This amp is a game changer...I'm so impressed!


----------



## steppenout

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Congrats.  Which speakers will you pair it with?  Probably my biggest regret was selling a AU-717 + TU-717 + Pioneer HPM-100 as a complete set.  All items were mint.  But then again it was way too much for an apartment set up with neighbors below
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  As of now I'm so in love with the headphone out on this that I haven't considered which speakers to use. This makes my Sennheiser HD-650's sound so very very good!


----------



## Oregonian

steppenout said:


> As of now I'm so in love with the headphone out on this that I haven't considered which speakers to use. This makes my Sennheiser HD-650's sound so very very good!




I get it. I have two of my set ups without any speakers. 

That Sansui is gorgeous........congrats.


----------



## Oregonian

meewoo said:


> Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> What speaker is that in picture?
> 
> And I quoted some thing from AK's recent hot thread.




There's a speaker in that picture?


----------



## LugBug1

Ooh I do love Sansui's! Congrats steppenout


----------



## 5aces

She is on her way over to Meewoo's place now to help him toe in his speakers...

bce22 is still reclined on his patio lounger, ordering more ale and listening to his Sansui.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Funny you mention that as my wife and I are halfway through Season One of the "The Wire" (for the first time).
> 
> The producers/writers and many of the actors go on to do a still-continuing HBO show called "Treme", which is different from "The Wire" in being the most music-centric TV show ever.   The actor who plays McNulty's partner Bunk in "The Wire" plays a New Orleans trombone player.  Many famous New Orleans musicians play themselves (and play their instruments).
> 
> It is basically about the music scene, the restaurant scene and the homicide police scene in New Orleans (so the latter carries over from "The Wire").  Famous TV restaurant scene writer and chef Anthony Bourdain writes all the restaurant scenes (and btw, his travel show on CNN resumes in two weeks).


 
  I know that show and the band is called the rebirth brass band.  They have been around a long time.  I saw them for the first time May 2012 in a relatively small venue called The Middle East in Cambridge, MA.
   
   
  It was the most fun show I've been to in years.
   
  now back to your regularly scheduled broadcasting.


----------



## bce22

Quote: 





5aces said:


> She is on her way over to Meewoo's place now to help him toe in his speakers...
> 
> bce22 is still reclined on his patio lounger, ordering more ale and listening to his Sansui.


 
  send her over here first, i want to switch the au-517 for my sta-2100D.  Time to give the Realistic A little love.  I picked up some fishermans pumpkin stout.  I'll crack one tonight but i can share.


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





bce22 said:


> send her over here first, i want to switch the au-517 for my sta-2100D.  Time to give the Realistic A little love.  I picked up some *fishermans pumpkin stout*.  I'll crack one tonight but i can share.


 
   
  Hmm...I feel thirsty.


----------



## 5aces

Mother.
Sister.
Sweetheart.
Wife.

Motorcycle.
Stereo.
Fast women.
Squandered cash.

All at the same time, sometimes apart.
One in my bosom, one in my heart.

Music holds it together, along with a good companion.

Jerky Boys Drinking Problem


----------



## bce22

So I received notification that the Kenwood KA-907 i purchased is on the way and will be here this week.  This one I am really excited about.  This model is really rare and is very very similiar to the highly regarded Kenwood Supreme 600 which is considered by many to be a marvell of amp design.  This amp is from 1980.
  
 Its rated at 2 x 150 watts RMS into 8 ohms conservatively. It weighs a hefty 57 lbs and it's a dual mono design. Supposedly has a truly excellent phono stage.   Moodryn and Meewoo have one also. I This deal was too good to pass up at $400 shipped.  Here is the link to the vintage knob.  If interest read up on the supreme 600 as well.  If you click ont the 600 select the user button on the bottom left hand side to read some great info. 

http://www.thevintageknob.org/kenwood-KA-907.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/kenwood-Model_600.html
  
  
 Here are some pictures of the unit.  The inside shots i can't find for some reason so the ones i linked are not from my kenny.
  

  

  
  

  



Oh yeah... That there is seriously 4x18000uF caps!


----------



## kazsud

I have a chance to buy a Sansui G4700 for $100.
Has anyone heard one of these?


----------



## bce22

Ive heard some of the lower G models.  I'm not a big fan.  They are not bad receivers by any means but there prices are out of line.  For 40-50 I would by it.  For $100 Id look for something else.  A vintage yamaha, realistic, onkyo, kenwood, sherwood or pioneer integrated.  Don't pay the premium for the name.                Its all about the models.....not the brand


----------



## ssrock64

Can somebody enlighten me on how related my SX-780 is to the rest of the Pioneer range? Was it a replacement for the SX-750? A low-end reciever with an awkwardly midrange model designation? A wolf in sheep's clothing? I need to do a bit of work on the headphone out before I can get to critical listening, but through my speakers it's been sounding pretty good.


----------



## bce22

Personally i think if you want to move up the Pioneer receiver ladder don't jump until you can score on one of these:   
   
  Pioneer SX-1010
  Pioneer SX-1050
  Pioneer SX-1080
  Pioneer SX-1250 (my first choice and expensive)
  Pioneer SX-1280
  Pioneer SX-1980
   
  There are other brands to consider for solid state receivers such as yamaha, kenwood, sony, onkyo, sansui, luxman, realistic, SAE, Setton and more.  Pioneer (and sansui) aren't the only bands at the show.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you are willing to also look at integrated amps (power and pre amps) you can double youre shopping list and can find some beautiful amps.  They can sound wonderful but are missing that classic FM tuning dial and face.  If that matters not check out the Pioneer SA series, Kenwood KA series, Yamaha CA series and Sansui Au series.  And you can realy go vintage crazy and look for a fisher or HH Scott vintage tube amp or receiver such as the fisher 400, 500, 800 x-100 or Scott 299, 222c or 399.  Just stay away from these companies Solid State stuff unless you're really schooled and know exactly whatmodels are good..


----------



## scottiebabie

me thinks the Luxman R117 is one of the best (semi)vintage receivers out there & its also reasonably priced (for now) if u can find one. should give the 1x50/80's a darn good run for the money. besides price, bonus is it comes with a remote too. at 160wpc, it should be able to drive alot of speakers.


----------



## Oregonian

ssrock64 said:


> Can somebody enlighten me on how related my SX-780 is to the rest of the Pioneer range? Was it a replacement for the SX-750? A low-end reciever with an awkwardly midrange model designation? A wolf in sheep's clothing? I need to do a bit of work on the headphone out before I can get to critical listening, but through my speakers it's been sounding pretty good.




No kidding, my vintage tech who sells refurbed stuff as well (my favorite store to visit in town by far) said the X80 series sounded the best to him over every other brand or Pioneer series. Except for the 1980, which he said was not the same sound. Of course, as we all hear differently YMMV but it was an interesting observation. Your 780 he pointed out as his favorite period.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





5aces said:


> Ahh, my man Meewoo, white shag carpet in a paneled rec room, sizzling company and you're straining for the make of loudspeaker?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   ROFL!!!
   
  You made me realize that I need to increase my testosterone level, big thanks!!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, you changed avatar again I like those fantasy pics!! Keep coming!!!


----------



## Skylab

The cool thing about the Pioneer SX-x80 series is that even the entry level models sound pretty good. I have an SX-680 in my bedroom driving Infinity Infinitesimals and that sounds killer. 

But there are many gains to be made once you get to the SX-980. The 980 is a huge step above the 780 is build quality (I had a both a 780 and a 980 for a while; I have never seen or heard an 880). And then as you go 1080, 1280, 1980, you get more all the way up. I've never heard or seen a 1080 either but I think the 1280 and 1980 are the ony two with the toroidal transformers. I also would not swear to this but I think the 980 is where discrete output transistors are used versus the Darlington Power Packs like the 580/680/780 use (altho again these sound quite good).


----------



## Meewoo

@bce22
   
  Why buy Kenwood? They have terrible quality control, check my proof.
   

   
  Seriously, congrats!!! But you proved it's not rare, you are the fourth owner in this thread.
   
  @scottie
  R-117 is not vintage, it's plastic black crap (PBC, PBC)!!!!!  Although I am glad that I own one.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The cool thing about the Pioneer SX-x80 series is that even the entry level models sound pretty good. I have an SX-680 in my bedroom driving Infinity Infinitesimals and that sounds killer.


 
  Wow - kudos to the Marketing Guy who came up with " Infinity Infinitesimals "


----------



## Skylab

They are remarkable sounding little speakers, the original Infinitesimals. I love them. It's almost impossible to believe that the sound they produce could come from such a small speaker.


----------



## scottiebabie

ahhh Meewoo, plastic...the bane of modern society or its savior?? for sure, bright shiny metallic thingys are purrty & the black Luxman looks dull by comparison. however they sound very good & best of all , they come with a remote! call me new school but dang... i love ma remotes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  & the very best of all, they go for 1/2 the price (if not less) of comparable Pioneers & Sansuis. my buddy here has one & i like it. so much so im on the prowl to snag one if it comes up.
   
  & arent some of the best "toys" plastic!!!?


----------



## moodyrn

meewoo said:


> @bce22
> 
> Why buy Kenwood? They have terrible quality control, check my proof.
> 
> ...





I think not only is it rare it's scarce. I've had mine a little over a year. After getting it, I put a saved search on eBay to see just how rare it was. And after more than I year a total of two have been listed with bce being the new owner of the second. The model 600 have been listed maybe a dozen times which is still really rare when you look at how often many other totl come up.


----------



## moodyrn

meewoo said:


> @bce22
> 
> Why buy Kenwood? They have terrible quality control, check my proof.
> 
> ...





I think not only is it rare, it's scarce. I've had mine a little over a year. After getting it, I put a saved search on eBay to see just how rare it was. And after more than A year a total of two have been listed with bce22 being the new owner of the second one. The model 600 have been listed maybe a dozen times which is still really rare when you look at how often many other totl come up.


----------



## ssrock64

My dilemma is that I like the way modern monitor-style speakers sound, but I love the way vintage gear drives my headphones. I need to find a speaker that is both inefficient enough to give me significant volume control with the 780, and has a flat and detailed enough sound signature to satisfy me.


----------



## jasonb

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> My dilemma is that I like the way modern monitor-style speakers sound, but I love the way vintage gear drives my headphones. I need to find a speaker that is both *inefficient* enough to give me significant volume control with the 780, and has a flat and detailed enough sound signature to satisfy me.


 
  efficient or inefficient?


----------



## palmfish

I can't imagine a speaker being so efficient that you don't have sufficient volume control. What speakers are you using now?


----------



## claybum

@bce22
   
  Congrats on your KA 907. I hope you get lots of trouble free enjoyment out of it. I considered pulling the trigger on that unit as a backup. I'm glad a head fier picked it up and I can see you are happily anticipating its arrival. Might want to put on a back brace when you move that unit into place. 
   
  On another note, my KA 907 is in the shop. got some major fuzz coming from both the speakers and headphone out. My unit was fully recapped but I never opened the unit to check. I'm glad my unit is being looked at. My local repair guy is the best and I have decided to do whatever it takes to keep this KA 907 going. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Looking forward to your impressions!


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





palmfish said:


> I can't imagine a speaker being so efficient that you don't have sufficient volume control. What speakers are you using now?


 
  I have some Mission 771s (small bookshelf monitors) hooked up right now, and nine-o-clock pushes the boundaries of acceptable volume.


----------



## jasonb

What's wrong with that? My 750 is always between 8-9 with my headphones, but there is still plenty of adjustment there. The volume dial is still fine enough. 
  Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I have some Mission 771s (small bookshelf monitors) hooked up right now, and nine-o-clock pushes the boundaries of acceptable volume.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> My dilemma is that I like the way modern monitor-style speakers sound, but I love the way vintage gear drives my headphones. I need to find a speaker that is both inefficient enough to give me significant volume control with the 780, and has a flat and detailed enough sound signature to satisfy me.


----------



## palmfish

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I have some Mission 771s (small bookshelf monitors) hooked up right now, and nine-o-clock pushes the boundaries of acceptable volume.


 
   
  85 dB sensitivity - They actually aren't very sensitive!
   
  I'm guessing it's your room... Is it fairly small? Reflective?


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





claybum said:


> On another note, my KA 907 is in the shop.


 
  @Bce22
  I must correct myself, you are the fifth owner. I forgot to count Claybums's.
   
  @Claybum
  Sorry mate!
   
  @Moodyrn
  It's not rare.


----------



## Meewoo

Quote: 





scottiebabie said:


> & arent some of the best "toys" plastic!!!?


 
   
  Hey, what "toy" are you talking about?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I said I hate BPC!!!!


----------



## MattTCG

What's a fair price for an sx880 in good condition? local pickup


----------



## Skylab

I'd say if you got a nice looking and good working one for anything less than $300 your be OK. I wouldn't pay more than that for an 880 as you can get a nice 980 for $400.


----------



## MattTCG

How about a nice looking one for $125? It would be an hours drive though each way. I guess I know the answer and thanks for that Rob.


----------



## Skylab

125 for a nice one is definitely a good deal, no doubt. I guess the real question is...since you already have a 1280, what would you do with the 880?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> 125 for a nice one is definitely a good deal, no doubt. I guess the real question is...since you already have a 1280, what would you do with the 880?


 
   
  Stack them.


----------



## Rawrbington

Picked this up today:

  Fisher 800B
  The cabinet is flawless.  face needs a good cleaning.  and two knobs are missing the gold caps.  It functions great.  But to my dismay, NO HEADPHONE JACK.
  So upset.  how dumb am I?  I mean i bought it as a speaker amp, but was excited to try my LCD2's with it.  I guess if i don't like it i can always unload it and wait for a 500C or 800C


----------



## MattTCG

I offer to relieve you of this enormous burden.


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Picked this up today:
> 
> Fisher 800B
> The cabinet is flawless.  face needs a good cleaning.  and two knobs are missing the gold caps.  It functions great.  But to my dismay, NO HEADPHONE JACK.
> So upset.  how dumb am I?  I mean i bought it as a speaker amp, but was excited to try my LCD2's with it.  I guess if i don't like it i can always unload it and wait for a 500C or 800C


 

 Can you do some speaker tap hookups?  I know just enough (scary) to ask that ignorant question but maybe you can?


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Can you do some speaker tap hookups?  I know just enough (scary) to ask that ignorant question but maybe you can?


 
   
  Heck yeah!! Good suggestion O.


----------



## nailbunny7

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Heck yeah!! Good suggestion O.


 
  Yeah, just did that for my HE-6's to my Pioneer SX-5590. Sounds pretty great now, but it needs some new power caps that I just ordered. Hope they get here soon


----------



## kazsud

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> Picked this up today:
> 
> Fisher 800B
> The cabinet is flawless.  face needs a good cleaning.  and two knobs are missing the gold caps.  It functions great.  But to my dismay, NO HEADPHONE JACK.
> So upset.  how dumb am I?  I mean i bought it as a speaker amp, but was excited to try my LCD2's with it.  I guess if i don't like it i can always unload it and wait for a 500C or 800C


 
  Get a hifiman he-adapter
http://ebay.com/itm/NEW-Head-Direct-HIFIMAN-HE-Adapter-FREE-SHIPPING/260879194207?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D988626670297989390%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D190895020835%26


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> What's wrong with that? My 750 is always between 8-9 with my headphones, but there is still plenty of adjustment there. The volume dial is still fine enough.


 
  I'd just like to be able to fine-tune my volume some more, perhaps with the max comfortable level sitting around noon instead of nine.
   
   
  Quote: 





kstuart said:


>


 
  I'd love to indulge, but I don't have the right room or budget for stats.
   
   
  Quote: 





palmfish said:


> 85 dB sensitivity - They actually aren't very sensitive!
> 
> I'm guessing it's your room... Is it fairly small? Reflective?


 
  The 780 is in my bedroom setup, so it's pretty cramped.


----------



## LugBug1

I think around 9 oclock on the volume pot is good for headphone listening on these older amps. A couple of my amps start to exhibit hiss at around 11- 12 whether a pre amp is involved or not. Of course depends on headphones.


----------



## MattTCG

I never like to listen above 9 period. Trying to save my hearing for the long run.


----------



## jasonb

Same here. With my setup, using the Q701, I'm usually in the 8-8:30 area
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I never like to listen above 9 period. Trying to save my hearing for the long run.


----------



## MattTCG

Here's to listening at soft-medium.


----------



## jasonb

In my opinion the Q701 is only really usable at low-moderate volume. I think most people who call them harsh probably try to listen to them too loud, and with too weak of an amp. When listened to in the 70-80db range with a lot of power on tap and a slight(3db or so) bass boost, they are great. 
   
  Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Here's to listening at soft-medium.


----------



## LugBug1

I'll drink to that  _sipping my decaffeinated coffee ha _
   
   
  I'm also currently listening with my K701's through my Sansui 505 and boy do they sound good  I have a notch of bass on and a notch of treble off. The bass and soundstage is very good indeed with some cool Jazz. They really do work well with these vintage amps. Apart from the older hifimans, they must be the most power hungry cans out there.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Not stats, Magnepan MMG speakers.   Think HE-6, except speakers.
   
  Here is a pair in excellent condition that just closed on ebay for $370 for the pair:
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnepan-MMG-Main-Stereo-Speakers-Excellent-with-box-/181206139821?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item2a30ba43ad


----------



## Skylab

I was a Maggie guy for a LONG time. Bought my first pair in 92, SMGc's. then went to MG-10's, and then to 1.6's. Love the Maggie sound. Sometimes still wish I had a pair. I sold them when I bought the B&W N800's, but there is something special about the Maggies...


----------



## nailbunny7

I feel the same way about them  I have 3 pairs of SMGa's that I plan on sometime in the future using for hometheater lol


----------



## ssrock64

Okay, I guess that's addressed.

On another note, I'd like to have the 780 restored sometime soon in case it's close to grenading itself like my ST120. Does anyone have recommendations of a shop or person who could do it for me at a reasonable price? I'd prefer them to be in the southeast for shipping reasons, but I'll consider anywhere in the US.


----------



## Fearless1

Quick question for anyone who may be able to answer, I am going tomorrow  to look at a Hafler Series 9505 Trans-nova amp I saw in a local ad (guy wants 300 for it), slightly used.  Does anybody have any experience with this amp?


----------



## Skylab

ssrock64 said:


> Okay, I guess that's addressed.
> 
> On another note, I'd like to have the 780 restored sometime soon in case it's close to grenading itself like my ST120. Does anyone have recommendations of a shop or person who could do it for me at a reasonable price? I'd prefer them to be in the southeast for shipping reasons, but I'll consider anywhere in the US.




The question is what's reasonable to spend on an SX-780. I'm not sure what it would cost to fully restore and recap a 780, but I would think it would be in the $300 range at least. A full restore/recap of a 1280/1980 runs about $700-800. This much I do know 

I've suggested before that for receivers that can be purchased for under $200, which the 780 can, it may be better just to buy a "new" one if the one you have breaks, unless you are very fond of it.

Then again if you just wanted it cleaned, tested, and only out of spec parts replaced, that might run more like $100-150. That might be worth it if you feel something may be amiss.


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The question is what's reasonable to spend on an SX-780. I'm not sure what it would cost to fully restore and recap a 780, but I would think it would be in the $300 range at least. A full restore/recap of a 1280/1980 runs about $700-800. This much I do know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I could spend a couple hundred bucks and be okay with that. I'd rather maintain what I have than have to go shopping again soon, really.


----------



## Skylab

Then by all means go for it!

The two people I know of from my own experience are Circle Stereo in Austin TX and "Mattsd" over on Audiokarma. Both did 1980's for me and both did a good job. Mattsd was better but he is up to about a 5 month wait. No clue whether either would do a 780 or what they would charge.


----------



## kstuart

Considering that round-trip shipping across the country is upwards of $100 for something that heavy (and double-boxed), you might want to do a web search for electronics repair in your area (or look in yellow pages).  The clean/test/replace-out-of-spec-parts should be no problem for any experienced electronics repair guy.  The service manual is available for free at:
   
  http://www.hifiengine.com/library/pioneer/sx-780.shtml


----------



## ssrock64

Quote: 





kstuart said:


> Considering that round-trip shipping across the country is upwards of $100 for something that heavy (and double-boxed), you might want to do a web search for electronics repair in your area (or look in yellow pages).  The clean/test/replace-out-of-spec-parts should be no problem for any experienced electronics repair guy.  The service manual is available for free at:
> 
> http://www.hifiengine.com/library/pioneer/sx-780.shtml


 
  I've already emailed a few local shops that sell vintage equipment to see where they get their stuff serviced if they don't do it themselves.
   
  The last time I sent a piece of equipment to a local general electronics guy I was told it "couldn't be fixed", so I'm going to try and find an audio-specific shop.


----------



## Rawrbington

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I offer to relieve you of this enormous burden.


 





  It does need a good going through.  And then it still might end up in a closet.  I've thought about testing the 8 Telefunken 12AX7's and 4 7591's (not sure of that manufacturer. sylv or rca prolly) and if they test good then just parting it out.
  blasphemy i know.
   
  i knew i didn't need it and probably didn't even want it.  but theres just soemthing about vintage iron.  once its in front of me i can't walk away


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Then by all means go for it!
> 
> The two people I know of from my own experience are Circle Stereo in Austin TX and "Mattsd" over on Audiokarma. Both did 1980's for me and both did a good job. Mattsd was better but he is up to about a 5 month wait. No clue whether either would do a 780 or what they would charge.


 
   
  +1 on Mattsd. Also Terry Dewitt out of TN has a great reputation and is very reasonable.


----------



## analogsurviver

Quote: 





ssrock64 said:


> I've already emailed a few local shops that sell vintage equipment to see where they get their stuff serviced if they don't do it themselves.
> 
> The last time I sent a piece of equipment to a local general electronics guy I was told it "couldn't be fixed", so I'm going to try and find an audio-specific shop.


 
  It has been written before in this thread - general electronics guys consider an audio device OK if it meets the minimum requirements for it stated in the service manual.
   
  Audio restoration can have many levels - from restoring to basically stock new condition to hot rodding into stratosphere. It car terms, it goes from a Mustang rotting in a barn to some super hot rod drive as ( used to be ? - no longer watch TV ) seen on Discovery channel. That "couldn't be fixed" is right - if cost effective logic above all only is applied. Those restorers that go another audio mile and still manage to keep the costs reasonable are worth seeking and waiting in line, shipping charges, etc. General repair guy simply does not understand audio needs.
   
  What looks indistinguishable on an oscilloscope can be worlds apart in listening. And in the means/costs to arrive from boring/bland to eargasmic audio presentation.


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





rawrbington said:


> It does need a good going through.  And then it still might end up in a closet.  I've thought about testing the 8 Telefunken 12AX7's and 4 7591's (not sure of that manufacturer. sylv or rca prolly) and if they test good then just parting it out.


 
  I shopped Telefunken 12AX7s relatively recently (see signature) and I can tell you that the lowest possible price on ebay is $30, and the more testing information you can provide (i.e. specific readings), the more you can get for them.  And even more if they are matched pairs.
   
  So, if they are all still good (not unusual for Telefunken tubes, some of the best made items), $300 for the 12AX7s would seem to be likely (I didn't shop 7591s, so I can't say on those).   Beautiful visual condition and high readings could get you significantly more than that...


----------



## kstuart

Quote: 





analogsurviver said:


> What looks indistinguishable on an oscilloscope can be worlds apart in listening. And in the means/costs to arrive from boring/bland to eargasmic audio presentation.


 
  Can you give an example of what would be done by a restorer, that would be not noticeable by a repair guy ?


----------



## MattTCG

Got to agree with Analogsurviver on this one. The repair guy will look for components that don't function, ie the light is out or the left channel. A restorer will assume that everything, after 35 years or so, is no longer in spec and needs to be reconditioned or replaced.


----------



## Skylab

kstuart said:


> Can you give an example of what would be done by a restorer, that would be not noticeable by a repair guy ?




The list is actually HUGE, and of course the bigger and more complicated the device, the longer the list.

Let's use Mattsd's restore of my SX-1980 for example.

He replaced EVERY single electrolytic capacitor with nice audio-grade caps. Not just the ones that were not in spec like a repair guy would - ALL of them.

He replaced the notoriously unreliable speaker replay, even though the original was working. No repair guy would know to do this.

He replaced the DC offset and Bias adjustment pots, which also are known to become problematic with age, even though again, they were fine.

He replaced almost every single component on the power supply board, many with uprated values, because this is also a known area of potential trouble.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture...


----------



## ssrock64

Well, I had to say it. The morning after pondering repairs on the 780, I turned it on and all I got was a buzz and the green stereo light. The face doesn't light up, and it doesn't function as a receiver. Other than the stereo light, it's exactly what happened to the ST120.
   
  I guess I'll either scrap it or send it for a big-bucks restoration.


----------



## Skylab

Wow man, that REALLY sucks. And it's really spooky given yesterday's discussion 

I hate when that kind of thing happens. But when it does, I usually look AT&T as a chance to upgrade...hopefully you can do so.


----------



## MattTCG

Going to look at an sx-1250 today. The guy sent me some low res phone pics and it's hard to tell the cosmetic condition. I would say about a 7. He posted the ad at $900. I talked to him on the phone for a few minutes and he said that he can do $500 and that the 1250 was "serviced" last year...hmm
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, we'll see. 
   
  Before anyone says it...yes, I know that I already have a 1280, 650, 9090db and model 8. I will be charging admission to my vintage museum soon.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Going to look at an sx-1250 today. The guy sent me some low res phone pics and it's hard to tell the cosmetic condition. I would say about a 7. He posted the ad at $900. I talked to him on the phone for a few minutes and he said that he can do $500 and that the 1250 was "serviced" last year...hmm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Road trip!


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





mikelap said:


> Road trip!


 
   
  Nah, this is a traveling kinda of circus. Just send me address. I'll pack it all up and be there in about a month (will be bringing all the kids btw).


----------



## Oregonian

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> Going to look at an sx-1250 today. The guy sent me some low res phone pics and it's hard to tell the cosmetic condition. I would say about a 7. He posted the ad at $900. I talked to him on the phone for a few minutes and he said that he can do $500 and that the 1250 was "serviced" last year...hmm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Beat me to it.  You've got the buyit disease for sure.  I should talk...............have 5 now and just asked a local about his Pioneer SX-5580 (black face Euro version).   Skylab - how do we stop this insanity?


----------



## LugBug1

How is the model 8 Matt? Does it stand up to your 9090db?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Quote: 





oregonian said:


> Beat me to it.  You've got the buyit disease for sure.  I should talk...............have 5 now and just asked a local about his Pioneer SX-5580 (black face Euro version).   Skylab - how do we stop this insanity?


 
   
  Get a vintage Krell or Levinson piece and you'll never look back


----------



## MattTCG

Quote: 





lugbug1 said:


> How is the model 8 Matt? Does it stand up to your 9090db?


 
   
  It won't be here for a few days. I'm very interested to put it against the 9090 myself. Will definitely let you know.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> It won't be here for a few days. I'm very interested to put it against the 9090 myself. Will definitely let you know.


 
  Cool bro, I was wondering why you hadn't mentioned about it yet. 
   
   
(got my SX550 working again today  didn't want to make a big thing about it coz of the guy who's SX broke today..
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Don't know how or why? But its working as good as ever! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## SpeakerBox

Did you change something or did it fix itself?


----------



## moodyrn

Matt I thought you sold the 9090db. You still have it?


----------



## MattTCG

I sold the 9090db and had buyers remorse. About a week later I bought it back. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's just has a signature that I found that I don't won't to live without.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Did you change something or did it fix itself?


 
  Well, the problem was.. It would work for a while and then start to sound really distorted and dull. I'd cleaned it inside and it happened again... So thats when I called it a day and put it away in the cupboard of dead components. 
   
  That was a month ago. Got it out today to have another look inside. Tried it out first, it worked. Kept it playing for about 3 hours.. Still worked. 6 hours now and its still going strong. The only difference is, I'm using a different power cable? But theres nothing wrong with the original cable as I'm using it with another amp. 
   
  It must have been dirt or something in the signal path. If it was a bad cap, which is what I originally suspected, it would have died again by now.


----------



## LugBug1

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I sold the 9090db and had buyers remorse. About a week later I bought it back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can't blame you for that. 70's Sansui's do have that certain 'Je ne sai quack' (or whatever the French is


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> Beat me to it.  You've got the buyit disease for sure.  I should talk...............have 5 now and just asked a local about his Pioneer SX-5580 (black face Euro version).   Skylab - how do we stop this insanity?




There is only one way: end game gear! I went through a BUNCH of receivers and amps until I got my first restored SX-1980. The answer doesn't have to be the 1980 specifically, just something where there is no level up in the category you are in. After I got my restored 1980 I didn't really have interest in buying others. True, I ended up wanting two rigs based around the 1980  But all the other units I owned are gone. 

Well, almost...I do still have the SX-680 in the bedroom and a Marantz 2285 in the office  Those also are long-termers here as they are perfect for the systems they anchor. 

I have no gear that isn't actually in use. That's a rule I stick to. It's also why I just sold my HPM-100's, and am trying to sell my S-1010's. I'm very into the way gear looks as well as how it sounds, and my listening rooms have to be VERY neat and tidy or She Who Must Be Obeyed will strike!


----------



## moodyrn

Quote: 





matttcg said:


> I sold the 9090db and had buyers remorse. About a week later I bought it back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Lol, you know I understand. There's just something about that signature. Warm without being too warm. The highs are not rolled off like the 2325, and the sound stage actually have good width and depth.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> There is only one way: end game gear! I went through a BUNCH of receivers and amps until I got my first restored SX-1980. The answer doesn't have to be the 1980 specifically, just something where there is no level up in the category you are in. After I got my restored 1980 I didn't really have interest in buying others. True, I ended up wanting two rigs based around the 1980
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I'd consider my Spec 1/2 rack system end game and I still lust after other units......................damn wandering eye 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.........it's more about the collecting aspect I think to me. 
  
 I like your policy about keeping them in use - all of mine are as well.  I better stop pretty quick or that policy will be broken!


----------



## ssrock64

skylab said:


> Wow man, that REALLY sucks. And it's really spooky given yesterday's discussion
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just got it last week, so I might see if a local shop will repair it first.


----------



## captouch

My latest acquisition via CL, a '61 Harman Kardon A300.  15W/ch or thereabouts.
  

  
 And an underbelly shot:
  

  
 It's been recapped, but it's still sick - has a bad volume pot (one channel has no sound).  Working on fixing it now, so hopefully she'll be up and running in a week or so.
  
 No HP out, but there's always speaker taps, though my plan is to use it to run some KLH 20 speakers for an all '60's vintage setup.


----------



## MattTCG

SX-1250 in the house!!



I'm just doing a basic cleanup right now. Knobs, switches, glass and cabinet get the cleaning treatment. Then the bottle of deoxit to the pots.

Initial impressions...she sounds NICE.


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> Can't blame you for that. 70's Sansui's do have that certain 'Je ne sai quack' (or whatever the French is


 
 Je ne sais quoi. 3 out of 4 aint bad


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> There is only one way: end game gear! I went through a BUNCH of receivers and amps until I got my first restored SX-1980. The answer doesn't have to be the 1980 specifically, just something where there is no level up in the category you are in. After I got my restored 1980 I didn't really have interest in buying others. True, I ended up wanting two rigs based around the 1980
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I keep my eye open for the 1980 'just in case' despite the 1250 (when it was rocking) being amazing. I just really want the king of the hill for myself. I'll always keep the 2265B since it has treated me so well and it was the first vintage piece I ever bought. Now about the S-1010, are they up on AK?
  
  
 edit: nm, found em over there.


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> SX-1250 in the house!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Congrats! I will be very interested in reading your thoughts on 1280 vs 1250.


----------



## MattTCG

Lot's of static through the pots. Just used all the deoxit. This may require a trip to Radio Shack.


----------



## MattTCG

Naked shot.


----------



## Silent One

I'm still in the hunt for a G-33000. Will consider a second 22k, though...


----------



## Oregonian

Do you guys think a SX-5580 is worth $500?  Pristine shape, no info if its' been recapped or anything but sounds flawless. 
  
 I must be out of my mind even asking this..........................


----------



## kstuart

oregonian said:


> Do you guys think a SX-5580 is worth $500?  Pristine shape, no info if its' been recapped or anything but sounds flawless.
> 
> I must be out of my mind even asking this..........................


 
 You probably know this, but for the lurkers, it is a "black" version of the SX-1050....


> SX-5530 ⇔ SX-535
> SX-5560 ⇔ SX-750
> SX-5570 ⇔ SX-950
> SX-5580 ⇔ SX-1050
> ...


----------



## Meewoo

oregonian said:


> Do you guys think a SX-5580 is worth $500?  Pristine shape, no info if its' been recapped or anything but sounds flawless.
> 
> I must be out of my mind even asking this..........................


 
  
 You sir are Pioneer of audio downgrade!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 If for good-looking, Setton RS-660 would be French Chick, and Marantz has blue lights..............


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Matt on the 1250. You have a killer line up now. Can't wait to read your comparison vs the 1280.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> SX-1250 in the house!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Woop woop! 
  
 lookin good!


----------



## MattTCG

I'll leave a few impression now...the differences seem to stand out the most when I first acquire/listen to equipment. 
  
 The sound between the 1250 & 1280 is very close. I'd call them first cousins but in fact they may be brothers. Overall the 1250 wins on sound signature, both with speakers and headphones. The bass has more weight without any looseness and I find the treble is silky smooth while being very detailed. Mids are indistinguishable to me. The 1280 has a touch less emphasis on the bass and is slightly brighter, but this is a very minute difference and can almost be made to sound the same with a bit of EQ. 
  
 Sound Results:
  
 1280: 8.5
 1250: 9.0
  
 For me, the 1280 wins on look and feel and it's not very close. It has those lovely black faced meters. Also, there are some subtle but very slick touches the 1280 adds. The biggest for me is the flanged knobs which get larger towards the front face of the receiver. I know that this seems small, but it really just feels perfect in the hand when adjusting the settings...more expensive. It would be tough to beat the 1280 on look and feel period (1980 cough cough). The 1280 just has that luxury car look and feel. Pioneer just nailed this on IMO.
  
 Beauty Queen:
  
 1280: 9.5
 1250: 7.5
  
 I've got to spend more time listening. I only had a brief listening session last night before I went to work on cleaning. So far:
  
 *all pots and switches deoxit soaked (ran out though before I was finished)
 *all switches and knobs soaked and then hand polished
 *wood cabinet light refinish (only needed Howards because it was in really nice shape)
 *front facia carefully restored with Mr. Clean eraser
  
 Got to listen for about a week and then decide which to keep, 1250 or 1280.


----------



## Skylab

Nice impressions, Matt. Overall I can't say I really disagree with any of them. I too found the two units very similar sounding, and both sound excellent. And I too prefer the 1280 in every other way aside from the sound (which again is very close but I agree the 1250 is slightly better). 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: I had stock 1250 and 1280, and then sent the 1280 off to Mattsd for a full recap/restore. When the 1280 came back, it sounded MUCH better than either the 1250 or 1280 had sounded stock. MUCH better. Just sayin'. I wish I had heard a 1250 with a full recap, and of course it would have sounded much better than stock, too.


----------



## MattTCG

Rob, I hear you 100% on the restore. For me, it comes down to economics. Once I've decided that I have my end game vintage receiver, I'll sell off the all but two and have them restored. Can you share what the restore cost you?
  
 I'm actually leaning toward the 1280. 
  
 The front face cleaned up to near mint on the 1250. The cabinet came out to about an 8.5 with Howards. Knobs and switches are perfect. Got a little static left in a few of the pots. Now I'm gonna give a light dusting to the inside with a compressor and then...clean up all the internals with a soft toothbrush. (yes, I do know that I'm a little nuts)


----------



## SpeakerBox

IMHO you have to keep the one that sounds best.  That is really what we are all after, right?


----------



## harrinj

speakerbox said:


> IMHO you have to keep the one that sounds best.  That is really what we are all after, right?


 
 No we collect them! or I do  I had to move my office to my room since I ran out of space! I have a really small room now (small 50's ranch house) but a bigger room now for all these wonderful things and can finally set my speakers up correctly.


----------



## MattTCG

I gather that at least partially, the point Rob is making is that none of these vintage receivers will sound their best until you have them restored. Also, the restore would be necessary before truly judging them and coming to some final verdict. 
  
 I think that I'd be happy with the 1280 as end game and that is before it's restored. With the restoration added would be like two huge spoonfuls of gravy on top of this delicious receiver. Yum...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Understand, although there is at least a chance that if an 1250 sounds better than a 1280 pre-restoration that it will still sound better after they are both restored.


----------



## MattTCG

You are certainly right. The problem is you rarely get impressions, outside of Rob and Moody, on what these receivers sound like restored especially comparing one restored receiver to another. But based on Rob's comment on the restored 1280 above and how I feel about it already, I'll likely ending up with the 1280 restored as end game.


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> You are certainly right. The problem is you rarely get impressions, outside of Rob and Moody, on what these receivers sound like restored especially comparing one restored receiver to another. But based on Rob's comment on the restored 1280 above and how I feel about it already, I'll likely ending up with the 1280 restored as end game.


 
 Based on his description, Rob's 1280 was more than just restored as many crucial components were also upgraded from the stock components. It is really almost "upgrade"!
 As such it could sound even better than new. This is what makes it so hard to compare 40 year old components - none sound stock and the differences have as much to do with age and condition as design and quality. 
  
 While I agree that the 1280 is a prettier receiver, I'm surprised you don't prefer the 1250 after looking at the guts! The 1250 will also be less expensive to restore, maintain or upgrade!
  
 I have heard "mint" versions of both from collectors and the 1250 is a very special unit.
 My vote for the two best mass market Pioneers are the 1250 and SA-9100.
 I prefer to the later 1280/9800


----------



## MattTCG

Just threw on on the Marantz 2270 to a/b with the Pioneers. It's not a fair fight. The 2270 is not in the same ballpark IMO.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, the build quality of the 1250 certainly speaks to its potential post restoration.


----------



## Oregonian

meewoo said:


> You sir are Pioneer of audio downgrade!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ???
  
 Anyway, this would be for a second system, not replacing the Spec 1/2 rack.


----------



## Meewoo

oregonian said:


> ???
> 
> Anyway, this would be for a second system, not replacing the Spec 1/2 rack.


 
  
 Oh, I just wanted to say that receivers might not sound better than your SPEC (IMHO, no receiver will).
  
 If you plan a second system, then it's different game.
  
 Edit,
 I should say "within same brand", otherwise, I am just trolling.


----------



## Oregonian

meewoo said:


> Oh, I just wanted to say that receivers might not sound better than your SPEC (IMHO, no receiver will).
> 
> If you plan a second system, then it's different game.
> 
> ...


 
 You'd never be considered a troll!  Fact.
  
 I like having headphones and systems all over the house.


----------



## moodyrn

X2, and I also agree with the point about receivers vs separates within the same line. Vintage separates are the only thing on my radar right now.


----------



## 99-1

hi every body
 what do you think of my speaker box color ? i made it recently but i can't make up my mind whether to choose black or wood (self color)?


----------



## Skylab

> Anyway, this would be for a second system, not replacing the Spec 1/2 rack.


 
  
 Yeah the Spec stuff is a level up and worthy of restoration in and of itself!
  


parbaked said:


> Based on his description, Rob's 1280 was more than just restored as many crucial components were also upgraded from the stock components. It is really almost "upgrade"!
> As such it could sound even better than new. *This is what makes it so hard to compare 40 year old components - none sound stock and the differences have as much to do with age and condition as design and quality. *


 
  
 EXACTLY - without a restoration, the age and condition of any given sample may impact the sound more than anything else.


----------



## Trav

Just picked up my first original Sony ES receiver, an STR 6055. She seems to be in pristine condition. Photos and impressions to come.


----------



## LugBug1

trav said:


> Just picked up my first original Sony ES receiver, an STR 6055. She seems to be in pristine condition. Photos and impressions to come.


 
 Congrats Trav, look forward to your thoughts


----------



## MattTCG

trav said:


> Just picked up my first original Sony ES receiver, an STR 6055. She seems to be in pristine condition. Photos and impressions to come.


 
  
 Nice Trav!! Looking forward to it...


----------



## PhoenixG

trav said:


> Just picked up my first original Sony ES receiver, an STR 6055. She seems to be in pristine condition. Photos and impressions to come.


 
  
 Nice! I have the 6065, and I think it's the best sounding receiver under 1k. Great build quality, great sound, great features.


----------



## kstuart

By the way, something that relates to the restoration posts - one of the main aspects of the Sony "ES" products was that all the electronic components had to test within a much smaller tolerance than Sony's usual standards.   So if a resistor was normally okay +/- 10%, in the ES series it had to be +/- 1% (these are not the real figures, just giving you the sense).
  
 I bought the Sony ES CD player, and it looked identical to the regular CD player (this was in the second generation of CD players).  I had the opportunity to A/B the two players, and there was indeed a noticeable difference.  IIRC it cost $600 ($1200 in today's dollars)...


----------



## kstuart

So, I am reading AudioKarma threads, and someone mentions (paraphrase) "If you are only interested in sound quality, and don't need a radio, then used 80's high end gear is actually a better deal than 70's Japanese receivers".  So, I start reading some threads on that stuff (a lot of which, like Adcom, I remember from that era), and I come across this on a different Forum:


> Kenwood Basic series, dual monaural circuitry sharing a big trannie, great sound, dirt cheap usually under $200. I paid $70 for mine , best bang for the buck out there, people see 'Basic' and think it's crappy lower end stuff, trust me Chad, they ain't, mine drove my Martin Logans without breaking a sweat to very high levels, they should have no problem with your KEF 103.5's


 
 Now, Martin Logan are TOTL speakers, period (if I won the lottery, I would buy a pair of them), so these must be pretty good.
  
 So, I go to Google Images and start looking at them, and I find - OMG - some of them have Headphone Outs, and others have Input Level Controls (the latter would be awesome, because then I would not need a preamp at all, I could go straight from the DAC).  I then find that the M2 and M2A have both headphone outs and level controls.
  
 SO, I search Google on them, and our own thread comes up:
  
 Quote:


magick man said:


> Made a cool find at the local flea market, a Kenwood Basic M2A. Paid $80, talked him down from $120.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 and the followup is:
 Quote: 





magick man said:


> This M2A is a monster, it drives headphones with authority. Turning the gain knobs a little past 9 o'clock is as far as I can go with my Q701s before I risk hearing damage. There's deep black background, neutrality, and no coloration at all, just brute force. I have no doubt it would grab cans like the HE-6 by the scruff of the neck and make them do what it wants. I'm sure it would look at amps like the Darkstar and Lyr and say, "well, that's cute, let me show you something".


 
 So I have been following auctions on ebay.   There is one for BuyItNow for $250+$50 shipping, which then represents the ceiling for other auctions.  SalvationArmy sold one for about $235.   I forgot to bid on one with broken meters (don't care about that), and then by searching on ebay, I came across someone selling a big stack of 90s crap Kenwood stuff and including an unrelated M2A, but without power cord.  Perhaps the missing power cord made some people uneasy, or else they thought that close to a dozen pieces of gear would go for way more money than they wanted to pay, but I ended up with it for about $110 and then told the seller they could keep everything except the M2A, in order to keep the shipping down. (By the way, zzounds musician store shipped the power cable the next day, great service, good prices.)
  
 It arrived yesterday, and the input level controls were just noise city.  I deoxited them overnight, and today the controls are like new.
  
 My current headphones are both planars - Mad Dog 3.2 and HE-400 - and they both have a lot more impact and dynamics using the M2A.   There is a hair more air and refinement with the tube hybrid amp, but the "coherence" of the M2A is excellent (i.e. every part of the sound seems integrated with every other part).   There is a tiny bit of "Japanese high frequency shrillness", but much less than I expected - it is only there on occasion.  The HE-400 sound significantly better than they ever have, so they are more like the HE-6 than people think - I expect that most HE-400 buyers have very little money and so tend to use FiiO and so forth.  The Mad Dog sound great out of my laptop, so even though they like having power, they don't need it as much as the HiFiMan.
  
 The next tests are speakers, and then a shootout with the Sansui AU-417 which just arrived back...


----------



## Trav

phoenixg said:


> Nice! I have the 6065, and I think it's the best sounding receiver under 1k. Great build quality, great sound, great features.


I remember your review. I would have liked a 6120, 6060, or 6065 but this was too good a deal to pass up.


----------



## LugBug1

kstuart said:


> So I have been following auctions on ebay.   There is one for BuyItNow for $250+$50 shipping, which then represents the ceiling for other auctions.  SalvationArmy sold one for about $235.   I forgot to bid on one with broken meters (don't care about that), and then by searching on ebay, I came across someone selling a big stack of 90s crap Kenwood stuff and including an unrelated M2A, but without power cord.  Perhaps the missing power cord made some people uneasy, or else they thought that close to a dozen pieces of gear would go for way more money than they wanted to pay, but I ended up with it for about $110 and then told the seller they could keep everything except the M2A, in order to keep the shipping down. (By the way, zzounds musician store shipped the power cable the next day, great service, good prices.)
> 
> It arrived yesterday, and the input level controls were just noise city.  I deoxited them overnight, and today the controls are like new.
> 
> ...


 
 Good stuff and look forward to your Sansui comparison.
 I also think you can get some great gear from the eighties but I also think it is a taste thing, and not only with the looks. I rate my Technics V3 as a very good hp amp but the treble is sharp. Sharp compared to all my mid 70's amps. But this is were the sound was heading I think. A cleaner more clinical sound. Also its well documented that in general, production quality went down hill. Mass production, cheaper labor etc etc. Business is business. I would probably avoid the big names of the 70's within the 80's, with perhaps the odd exception. Marantz lower to mid end stuff was poop compared to the 70's. Pioneer still made some solid gear but not on par with their classics. Sony was as unpredictable as ever. The higher end es series being amazing while lower end stuff was just pop culture pap. Brands like JVC, Technics, Teac, Denon started to come their own in the eighties and I also agree Kenwood also kept components at a relatively good standard even through the midi market years! My friend had a good ole Kenwood midi stack and in all honesty it sounded better than his replacement Cambridge audio separates that I helped him choose 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. BUT, it all depends on what sound you like and what plays well with the music you prefer. 
 My favored sq attributes are; warmth and soundstage. I'm not too bothered about micro detail. The 70's sound is for me because it encapsulates a friendlier, more musical voice that plays well with my love of Jazz.  I've always preferred classical music with warmth over detail as well, and I know this is against the grain. HD650's where my go to cans for classical and jazz for many years with tubes. 
  
 I think the only amp from the 80's that I would go all out on would be a high end Sony es. They do seem solid and quality.


----------



## kstuart

bce22 said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).
> ...


 
 Okay, I received it back, and tested it with headphones and speakers, and now it is clear and crisp.  So, here is the link to the guy on ebay:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/usr/billsfan53.702
  
 BTW, comparing the fixed and recapped Sansui AU-417 to the aged Kenwood M2A:
  
 The AU-417 has a hair more clarity, while the M2A has more bass and dynamics.  The former may be due to the recap, while the latter may be due to the significantly higher power reserve.
  
 The M2A has really excellent "PRaT" (Pace, Rhythm and Timing), it really gets your toe tapping.
  
 While I did test the AU-417 with speakers, I have not yet done so with the M2A, because I am still trying to figure out the weird speaker connections on the back.  When you turn them all the way, they only lift up enough for a relatively slender wire...


----------



## dryvadeum

Hey guys, has anyone had any experience or knowledge on the Sansui AU 999? Theres one at my local pawn store for $139. I was planning to run my LCD 2s out of it.


----------



## harrinj

my Kef 103/4's sound really good with my Marantz 4240 but clip and oscillate way too easily. Is this because they are 4Ohms? it does it really bad in 2X40 but I'm running them in 4X17 as per some advice I looked up and I can get a little more volume with 4x17 before it clips too bad. 

 It never did this with my B&O S45's but those were 4-8Ohms. Should I just not use them with the 4240? I had them hooked up to my Kenwood KA-7100 and they never clipped on the same songs.


----------



## analogsurviver

I wanted to share a collateral damage found during ebay search :
  
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Vorverstarker-Toshiba-Aurex-SY-A88-Selten-/200959090916?pt=DE_Elektronik_Computer_TV_Video_Elektronik_Verst%C3%A4rker&hash=item2eca1860e4
  
 While searching for more info on this ultra rare piece, I stumbled upon a well documented primer how a good restoration of vintage electronics should look like and what it should cost :
  
http://amp8.com/tr-amp/toshiba/sy-88-23.htm
  
 Now, of real interest is this one:
  
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Endstufe-Toshiba-Aurex-SC-A99-Selten-/200959150777?pt=DE_Elektronik_Computer_TV_Video_Elektronik_Verst%C3%A4rker&hash=item2eca194ab9
  
 31,5 kg brute, switchable Class A/AB, in Class A still 2x 50W/8 ohm. These Toshiba Aurex are rare as hen's teeth, in USA due to Toshiba submarine scandal embargo in 80s most probably next to non existent. The combo cost in Germany cool 10.000,00 German Marks, roughly an equivalent of five grand US, which was anything but pocket change in the 80s. It was a reference combo by quite a few German magazines at the time - over competition from US and elsewhere.
  
 If you look a bit closely, Toshiba did use much above average level of film capacitors in this preamp - power amp should not differ in construction quality.
  
 This listing is going for the second time - with added "No shipping to Russia" mark. I assume first time around the winner was from Russia and things went sour with shipping costs. Remember - power amp without shipping carton alone weighs 31,5 kg ...
  
 IIRC, preamp was roughly 500 and power amp roughly 800 Euro - but you probably still can find the exact prices if really interested online.


----------



## Destroysall

So question guys. A friend of mine is giving me his Technics SL-210 Direct Drive turntable (not the SL-Q210). I was thinking of putting an Ortofon OM-10 Super cartridge on it. Now in terms of both phono and headphone amplification, I was thinking the best way at present was to go the old vintage route. I did find an SX-580 receiver a while back, but was unable to make the trip to see it. However this thing has been up for a while, and I wanted to know two things:
  
 1. Is it worth his asking price?
  
 2. Would the headphone amplifier port be able to drive my 600 Ω headphones?
  
 Here is the link → http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/3989411329.html


----------



## dryvadeum

Can anyone recommend a cheapish amp to pair with my LCD 2s? I want neutrality and deep bass slam.


----------



## peepr

Midrange pioneers. Sx-650 to say 850. Dunno whats available in OZ.


----------



## MattTCG

peepr said:


> Midrange pioneers. Sx-650 to say 850. Dunno whats available in OZ.


 
  
 this is good IMO. Pioneer makes a good pairing. The lcd2 already is a touch dark with great bass. The Pioneer x50 series will pair nicely. If you could get a 1050 that would be wonderful but it will probably be out of your budget.


----------



## dryvadeum

peepr said:


> Midrange pioneers. Sx-650 to say 850. Dunno whats available in OZ.




What about a Pioneer SA-5300?


----------



## Oregonian

destroysall said:


> So question guys. A friend of mine is giving me his Technics SL-210 Direct Drive turntable (not the SL-Q210). I was thinking of putting an Ortofon OM-10 Super cartridge on it. Now in terms of both phono and headphone amplification, I was thinking the best way at present was to go the old vintage route. I did find an SX-580 receiver a while back, but was unable to make the trip to see it. However this thing has been up for a while, and I wanted to know two things:
> 
> 1. Is it worth his asking price?
> 
> ...




Yes and yes. Offer $100 cash in hand.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Yeah the Spec stuff is a level up and worthy of restoration in and of itself!
> 
> 
> EXACTLY - without a restoration, the age and condition of any given sample may impact the sound more than anything else.


 
  
 I agree with this completely - but to really make a fair comparison you would need to restore the 1280 and 1250 and listen to both via blind test.  Probably not realistic unless you have unlimited funds (of course I seem to be buying stuff with limited funds anyway) and lots of time on your hands.  So my fallback would be to restore the 1250 as there are so many positive comments on this unit on AK and elsewhere - more than I have seen on the 1280.  Just my two cents - no right or wrong here as long as you are having fun!


----------



## kstuart

What about physical cleaning of the inside (as opposed to Deoxit, which is well documented in the primer on AK) ?  For example, my new M2A has a lot of dirt, which is *not* loose.   I am guessing kept in a room that had some occasional grease in the area, like an open kitchen/dining/living arrangement, so just enough grease in the air once in awhile, to make the dust stick.   Any suggestions?


----------



## MattTCG

Wow, that's going to be difficult. No way around it I don't think and no special products that I know of to help. I'd say you're looking at getting out and old soft toothbrush and spending a Saturday afternoon applying some TLC.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah that's a LOT of dirt. I would use a washcloth (or 7) with some Windex multi-surface applied to the cloth very sparingly, and then let everything dry out a LOT before powering back up.


----------



## SpeakerBox

kstuart said:


> What about physical cleaning of the inside (as opposed to Deoxit, which is well documented in the primer on AK) ?  For example, my new M2A has a lot of dirt, which is *not* loose.   I am guessing kept in a room that had some occasional grease in the area, like an open kitchen/dining/living arrangement, so just enough grease in the air once in awhile, to make the dust stick.   Any suggestions?


 
  
 A small soft, clean, narrow paint brush or soft tooth brush like Matt said to loosen up the dust - then a careful vacuuming out of the loose dirt with a brush attachment.  A pain, I have done it many times.


----------



## peepr

Rubbing alcohol might be a good idea also


----------



## SpeakerBox

Good point, actually denatured alcohol works really good and leaves absolutely nothing behind.   I have also found it to be great for getting marks off the faceplates and cleaning connectors.


----------



## MattTCG

Those small foam brushes have been helpful for me in the past.


----------



## MattTCG

New toy just rolled in!!


----------



## LugBug1

You can get electronic cleaning solvent, and then clean gently with a small paint brush. The alcohol will evaporate.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> New toy just rolled in!!


 
  
 Hah!  Congrats, she's beautiful


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Hah!  Congrats, she's beautiful


 
  
  
 Thanks. It's the model 8 Sansui BTW.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Thanks. It's the model 8 Sansui BTW.


 
  
 Oh I knew that! 
  
 I'm a little jealous my friend. Don't mind saying so  I have a feeling that the sound will be right up my ally. Warm, velverty and sweet as the sweetest potato from a bag of sweet potatoes that have been hand selected because of their sweetness 
  
 Have fun!


----------



## MattTCG

Can someone tell me if this model 8 had new caps?


----------



## LugBug1

I would take a wager that they are the original caps. They look Japanese. Also the condition overall is very good including the insides by the looks of things.


----------



## MattTCG

This is the cleanest most minty vintage receiver I've seen. I am super crazy about cleaning these receivers up and making them look as new as possible. There is not a single thing that I can do to make this one look any better. 
  
 Those caps in the picture still have a reflective luster on top which is why I asked if they might be new.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Those Nippon caps were common in the 70s and now so tough to tell.  What does the business end of the cap look like?  Any discoloration?


----------



## MattTCG

speakerbox said:


> Those Nippon caps were common in the 70s and now so tough to tell.  What does the business end of the cap look like?  Any discoloration?


 
  
 They look better than any vintage receiver cap that I've ever seen. Like new. I may check with the seller and see if there was any replacement done. I wasn't told about a recap so that why I'm kinda surprised.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The cap does look good from the picture you posted.


----------



## LugBug1

Have you plugged her in matt? Is she sweet? 
  
 Or are you oiling her up first...


----------



## moodyrn

Matt the caps pictured are the original caps. I've seen those same caps in a ton of vintage gear. They did a great job of cleanup it appears. I have cleaned some of my amps on the inside so well, a lot of those caps would look new too.


That 8 deluxe may be the best looking one I've seen. Congrats!!


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Have you plugged her in matt? Is she sweet?
> 
> Or are you oiling her up first...


 
  
 Deoxit...let it sit for 30 minutes...turn it own...let it sit for 30 more. Just about to turn it on now.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Deoxit...let it sit for 30 minutes...turn it own...let it sit for 30 more. *Just about to turn it on now*.


----------



## LugBug1

While we are waiting, I'm gutted that I don't have the ready's for these dudes.... Hfff 
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANSUI-AU999-/161101353161?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item25826390c9


----------



## Fearless1

While we wait for Matt, here is some amateur cap porn from an Onkyo A7 I am working on. They are massive.


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## MattTCG

Dude ....you are truly funny. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I posted impressions, not sure what happened. Checking now.


----------



## Oregonian

So who else thinks the only problem with vintage is the lack of a remote control?  I'm lazy and want to crank up a song without having to walk across the room. 
  
 Was in to pick up my repaired Fisher CA-880 today from my buddy Doug @ Audio Specialties (harrinj knows who I'm talking about) and he says he has something that I might like.  It's a Chase RLC-1 remote control.  Basically it's a pre-amp that allows you to control the volume, bass, treble and even mute as needed.  Two cable hookup, flip the tape monitor switch and instant remote.  From my research it's been talked about over at Audiokarma a bit but lost steam.  Here's the unit sitting on my Klipsch speaker under the CD player.
  

  
  
 It sounds good, no noticeable "noise" and I'm thrilled to add another toy that adds value! 
  
 So here's the Fisher rocking my new-to-me Philips Fidelio X1's.  Love those power meters!   Had a couple of blown power outputs (guess fairly common with these) but now sounds great.  Headphone out sounds excellent and with 100wpc on tap, it's a good unit for system number 5.  Thanks to Joseph69 who gave it to me a few weeks ago. 

  
 It's been a good day!


----------



## dryvadeum

dryvadeum said:


> What about a Pioneer SA-5300?




Anyone? What about an Onkyo Y 8000 receiver?


----------



## Meewoo

dryvadeum said:


> Anyone? What about an Onkyo Y 8000 receiver?


 
  
 This thread is skew to NA market, you'd better ask in OZ' forum or something. There are some OZ members here, and wish they can chime in.
  
 If I were in your market, I would consider earlier or mid 80's Sansui models like AU-alpha 70x, or I will strongly consider Acccuphase. They do match LCD-2 well according to my friends in Asia.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> New toy just rolled in!!


 
  
 "Team Sansui"...._.. rack 'em!_


----------



## kstuart

matttcg said:


> I'll leave a few impression now...the differences seem to stand out the most when I first acquire/listen to equipment.


 
 This reminded me of something.... and acquiring a 330 watt per channel solid state amp reminded me of the same thing...
  
 Namely, the question of how long it takes a solid state amp to warmup and sound its best.  (My new M2A vaguely seemed to sound better as time wore on, but I did not do anything to establish a reference point, so it was just a vague impression.)  I did a google search and read the threads on AudioKarma and SteveHoffman.   Some points from those threads:
  
 * It definitely takes at least 5 minutes for the Bias circuit to stabilize, so the "bias setting" is automatically wrong for the first few minutes, so there is a scientific basis for at least 5 minutes.
 * Some manufacturers recommend hours of warmup, and some recommend leaving the amp on 24 hours a day - one amp even does not have an off switch.
 * Listeners at the two sites seemed divided into a "30-60 minutes" camp and a "24 hours" camp - which could have been a question of which amp they owned (or else what level of difference they care about).
 * A couple of people mentioned that the older the capacitors, the longer they took to warmup.
  
 The electricity use seems to be the most compelling reason for avoiding leaving it running a lot, so now I have a use for my rarely-needed "Kill A Watt P3", it is hooked up to the M2A and I will see how much power it draws just from idling...


----------



## jasonb

kstuart said:


> This reminded me of something.... and acquiring a 330 watt per channel solid state amp reminded me of the same thing...
> 
> Namely, the question of how long it takes a solid state amp to warmup and sound its best.  (My new M2A vaguely seemed to sound better as time wore on, but I did not do anything to establish a reference point, so it was just a vague impression.)  I did a google search and read the threads on AudioKarma and SteveHoffman.   Some points from those threads:
> 
> ...




I kind of feel the same way about the 5 minute comment. I feel my SX-750 sounds better after about 5 minutes or so. Its interesting to read though because ive felt this way about my 75p since I got it, but I have not seen anyone else mention this till now.


----------



## parbaked

jasonb said:


> I kind of feel the same way about the 5 minute comment. I feel my SX-750 sounds better after about 5 minutes or so. Its interesting to read though because ive felt this way about my 75p since I got it, but I have not seen anyone else mention this till now.


 
  
 These definitely take a couple of minutes to warm up. Be careful switching inputs (especially to phono) before the amp section has settled in or you may hear a unpleasant, but not damaging, pop.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> So who else thinks the only problem with vintage is the lack of a remote control?  I'm lazy and want to crank up a song without having to walk across the room.
> 
> Was in to pick up my repaired Fisher CA-880 today from my buddy Doug @ Audio Specialties (harrinj knows who I'm talking about) and he says he has something that I might like.  It's a Chase RLC-1 remote control.  Basically it's a pre-amp that allows you to control the volume, bass, treble and even mute as needed.  Two cable hookup, flip the tape monitor switch and instant remote.  From my research it's been talked about over at Audiokarma a bit but lost steam.  Here's the unit sitting on my Klipsch speaker under the CD player.


 


 Doug is so awesome!


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> So here's the Fisher rocking my new-to-me Philips Fidelio X1's.  Love those power meters!   Had a couple of blown power outputs (guess fairly common with these) but now sounds great.  Headphone out sounds excellent and with 100wpc on tap, it's a good unit for system number 5.  Thanks to Joseph69 who gave it to me a few weeks ago.
> 
> 
> It's been a good day!


 
  
 Thats one good looking amp! How are the Philips X1's with vintage? It's a headphone that I've had my eye on for a while and will eventually buy to check out at some point. I'm assuming that they are low impedance, any hissing etc?
  
 I can definitely see a need for a remote when using speakers, because I'm constantly changing my volume level. But I'm solely headphones these days.


----------



## dryvadeum

Is a Teac AG 6500 or Luxman L45A any good?


----------



## LugBug1

dryvadeum said:


> Is a Teac AG 6500 or Luxman L45A any good?


 
  
 I haven't heard either, but out of the two I'd be happy to check out the Luxman. In fact I'd snap it up like a hungry croc if the price is good! 
  
 I wager that the Teac will not be on par with any of the big names for that period (early 70's). The Luxman is from 1980 and I'm sure will sound as good as it looks.


----------



## kstuart

The M2A when idling (no music) draws 1 KWH per day., so roughly US$5 per month if left always on.  Affordable, but noticeable....


----------



## dryvadeum

lugbug1 said:


> I haven't heard either, but out of the two I'd be happy to check out the Luxman. In fact I'd snap it up like a hungry croc if the price is good!
> 
> I wager that the Teac will not be on par with any of the big names for that period (early 70's). The Luxman is from 1980 and I'm sure will sound as good as it looks.




The Luxman is going for $350 AUD negotiable. Worth it?


----------



## LugBug1

dryvadeum said:


> The Luxman is going for $350 AUD negotiable. Worth it?


 
  
 I really don't know the average pricing of them. They very _very_ rarely pop up at my neck of the woods. But when they do they are very sort after. 
  
 Having said that, that still seems quite a high price. But if the condition is very good inside and out, it could be worth it. 
  
 I would get another opinion on the price though my friend as I'm not sure.


----------



## Trav

dryvadeum said:


> Is a Teac AG 6500 or Luxman L45A any good?


I'd suggest checking the Kenwood KA 6000, prices are quite reasonable and come highly recommended. Just my 2c.


----------



## dryvadeum

trav said:


> I'd suggest checking the Kenwood KA 6000, prices are quite reasonable and come highly recommended. Just my 2c.




What do they generally sound like?


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Thats one good looking amp! How are the Philips X1's with vintage? It's a headphone that I've had my eye on for a while and will eventually buy to check out at some point. I'm assuming that they are low impedance, any hissing etc?
> 
> I can definitely see a need for a remote when using speakers, because I'm constantly changing my volume level. But I'm solely headphones these days.




They sound great. No hiss at all and I'm running a V-Moda audio only cable. They are the most comfortable headphones I've ever tried and that's saying something. They disappear on your head.........


----------



## captouch

lugbug1 said:


>




Matt, your Eight impressions never showed. If we could zoom up on that dog, you'd see a tear slowly steaming down his furry cheek and hear whimpering if it were a live cam.


----------



## LugBug1

captouch said:


> Matt, your Eight impressions never showed. If we could zoom up on that dog, you'd see a tear slowly steaming down his furry cheek and hear whimpering if it were a live cam.


 
  
 haha, the dog sent matt a pm. Got all the juicy details!


----------



## MattTCG

You could easily say that the model 8 is LNIB. I have NEVER seen an amp this old look this new. The condition is truly incredible. The sound?
  
 Quick impressions:
  
 It's a sweet sounding girl. Just a touch off from the 9090db in terms of visceral bass punch. The mids are indistinguishable from the 9090. And the upper register is one of the best I've heard from a vintage receiver. There is lot's of air and the silky treble extends for days without a hint of harshness. Amazing treble.
  
 More to come...this dog has spoken.


----------



## LugBug1

Woof woof!!


----------



## 5aces

_Must guard Master's amplifiers..._


----------



## bce22

All I have to say is FedEx is NOT on my good list today.  I drove an hour to their office location after getting notification that my kenwood ka-907 was there and ready for a pickup.  When I get there the woman working the counter told me it wasn't in and that it wouldn't be there to Monday.  She said to never believe the interactive phone service.
  
 You would have thought as a customer service representative she would have empathized with my 2 1/2 hour wasted morning but no.  Eff FedEx.


----------



## bce22

Matt, that sure is a beautiful Sui Eight!
  
 Wish I owned one as well (maybe some day).  On a sad note my Realistic STA-2100D took a nose dive the other day.  I heard a loud snap, crackle and pop and turned it off immediately but it wasn't soon enough. I haven't had a chance to open her up but it will definitely be repaired in short order.  
  
 All the more reason to learn electronics and purchase the tools to repair this stuff.
  
 When you play with unrestored vintage gear you are playing with ticking bombs!  Gotta be prepared for them to go off.


----------



## Arsis

Here's my Zenith MC7050. Made in 1979. I got it new in the box in 1985. My dad was Zenith dealer for close to 40 years. Sounds great! 40 wpc. I found a few people online who thought they were made by Sansui but I dunno...


----------



## Meewoo

@BCE22
  
 Do you live in Amazon or Sahara? More than one hour drive to Fedex warehouse? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





You can ask Fedex to drop package at their store nearby and pick up package there,
  
 Oh, was your Realistics made by Pioneer? My SX-1250 experienced same problem in one channel. And this problem was discussed widely in AK, a transistor died or something. You can check AK and maybe you can fix it yourself.  I have my 1250 sit in closet and hope someday I can restore it myself. Haha, I am still dreaming...


----------



## Trav

arsis said:


> Here's my Zenith MC7050. Made in 1979. I got it new in the box in 1985. My dad was Zenith dealer for close to 40 years. Sounds great! 40 wpc. I found a few people online who thought they were made by Sansui but I dunno...


Very cool!


----------



## Trav

Kyocera R 851 just went on EB for $128 and 30 something shipping...wow


----------



## 5aces

arsis said:


> Here's my Zenith MC7050. Made in 1979.




There's a first, thanks for a jog of memory to the way back machines...
My older sister had a 1976 all Zenith system for her bedroom.
Allegro 1000 speakers, stacking auto record player and receiver.

My first real television was a big TOTL 1980 console Zenith System III with remote, it was big bucks back then @ $1,200 Can.


----------



## kstuart

Alright, I will break the silence with my speakers... the same tweeter as on their $30,000 speakers, the same midrange as used in professional studio monitors (I can verify that from seeing them first hand), and a very advanced woofer for its time:


----------



## wotts

I just saw a pair of the Qa on my local craigslist. They look to be similar minus the smaller driver.


----------



## kstuart

wotts said:


> I just saw a pair of the Qa on my local craigslist. They look to be similar minus the smaller driver.


 
 The Qa are not as good - the tweeter and the woofer are too far apart in their coverage - neither is particularly good at midrange.  In the "Infinitesimals" earlier in the thread, the woofer is a much smaller size, and so the midrange coverage is better... but then you need a subwoofer.


----------



## analogsurviver

kstuart said:


> The Qa are not as good - the tweeter and the woofer are too far apart in their coverage - neither is particularly good at midrange.  In the "Infinitesimals" earlier in the thread, the woofer is a much smaller size, and so the midrange coverage is better... but then you need a subwoofer.


 
 Qa and Qb are sort of "twins", Qa being a two way and Qb a three way speaker. I never heard a Qb, but a friend used to have Qa and I spent considerable time with them. I concur Qa is no midrange champ. But although I never did have a chance to hear the original Infinitesimals, I believe they must run rings around either Qa or Qb, subwoofer or no subwoofer added. Mini monitors project such spatial presentations big rectangular boxes simply can not match.
  
 The best I ever heard an Infinity speaker sounding was Infinity Reference Standard 4.5 at audio fair in Milano, Italy, mamy full moons ago. The EMIM midrange is superiour to any cone type driver I am familiar with. Funny, the much larger and more expensive IRS  I heard at the same fair a couple of less full moons back never managed to produce the same grandeour as 4.5s - probably a function of the rooms used, 4.5 being in a comparatively too large room and IRS in too small room. IRS is basically 4.5 multiplied many times - same EMIM and EMIT drivers used, similar variation on Watkins woofers.


----------



## jasonb

So as I understand it, the Q701 isn't affected much at all by output impedance because it's impedance is near flat across the spectrum:

  
 Now what happens if I upgrade to an HD800:

  
 So, if my SX-750 an output impedance of 150 ohms, what will this do to an HD800?


----------



## LugBug1

jasonb said:


> So as I understand it, the Q701 isn't affected much at all by output impedance because it's impedance is near flat across the spectrum:
> 
> 
> Now what happens if I upgrade to an HD800:
> ...


 
 Trust me, they will sound a lot better than your Q701's and I'm a fan of the AKG's. 
  
 The high impedance of these old amps add weight to the bottom end of the sensitive Sennheisers. Some like it, some don't. I think they really benefit from it.


----------



## Meewoo

Mint Sansui AU-20000 on ePay http://www.ebay.com/itm/sansui-power-amplifier-AU20000-/271272554109?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f291aae7d
  
 @5aces, how much would you pay for this piece?


----------



## jasonb

lugbug1 said:


> Trust me, they will sound a lot better than your Q701's and I'm a fan of the AKG's.
> 
> The high impedance of these old amps add weight to the bottom end of the sensitive Sennheisers. Some like it, some don't. I think they really benefit from it.


 
  
 hmmmm... That sounds good, I just wish I knew the science behind it.


----------



## Oregonian

Another good find..................$20 at a garage sale.  Neighbor said his kid left them behind after he moved out.  Glad I have buddies out keeping their eyes open for me.    These are the DX-3's with 10" drivers.
  
 Sound mighty nice - very efficient speaker as CV's are known to be.


----------



## kstuart

jasonb said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > Trust me, they will sound a lot better than your Q701's and I'm a fan of the AKG's.
> ...


 
 There is currently no complete scientific theory covering all of acoustic and/or audio reproduction.  Trial-and-error shows that certain measurements have certain correlations in some circumstances - and that makes it easier to design headphones, rather than having no starting point at all.
  
 It's possible someone in the DIY Forum here, has tried changing the output impedance of the amp he designed and built...


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> @5aces, how much would you pay for this piece?




Looking at the faceplate photo, it is hard to determine if that is dust/spiderwebs or physical wear on the front.
Personally, since one is always looking at the front, I like it to be as close to mint as possible.
The meters _must_ work, they are very hard to come by.

The quote: _"purchased new in japan and in use off and on for 30 yrs.never a problem except an occasional "POP" in the speakers" _, if taken literally, would mean it has sat idle for many years.
Will definitely need some real technical service work, you would have to factor in some $$$ to bring that one to spec.
Three days left, they always tip over $1,000 USD, even in fair shape but if the faceplate was marked up, I'd take a pass.
Good ones fetch $1,500+ and cherry ones get $1,800+ on a given day - usually no restoration included, of course the Bay can reach stratosphere levels on a moments notice.

They are shipping USPS, you would hope for knowledgeable packing, the rate was only $37.00 to Tonawanda, NY 14150 where I pick items up.
Seller looks to be a reliable older gent from Alabama, if the profile is accurate.
I would be using his seller email to ask some pointed questions before throwing a hat into the ring.
Use eSniper and set a max you are willing to pay after getting satisfactory answers to your questions, if you could scoop it for a touch over a grand that would be fab but highly unlikely...

I purchased mine from the estate of a surgeon, who kept all his gear in cabinets behind glass, used it regularly and kept it up to spec, a true collector.
I'm just the next curator of this piece, an all time favorite for sure.
Thanks for pointing out the link, it will be fun to watch the bids, good luck if you choose to get involved, Meewoo.


----------



## palmfish

kstuart said:


> There is currently no complete scientific theory covering all of acoustic and/or audio reproduction.  Trial-and-error shows that certain measurements have certain correlations in some circumstances - and that makes it easier to design headphones, rather than having no starting point at all.
> 
> It's possible someone in the DIY Forum here, has tried changing the output impedance of the amp he designed and built...




Ohms law.


----------



## MattTCG

oregonian said:


> Another good find..................$20 at a garage sale.  Neighbor said his kid left them behind after he moved out.  Glad I have buddies out keeping their eyes open for me.    These are the DX-3's with 10" drivers.
> 
> Sound mighty nice - very efficient speaker as CV's are known to be.


 
  
 That's the last straw!! I now declare that I'll be moving to Oregon next week to get dibs on better vintage gear.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> That's the last straw!! I now declare that I'll be moving to Oregon next week to get dibs on better vintage gear.


 
 Come on out!  Bring YOUR great finds with you!


----------



## MattTCG

The best looking 1250 that I've EVER seen sits over at another popular audio site, with a price of $850 OBO. It looks LNIB. Check it out for ya' selves.


----------



## Meewoo

@5aces
  
 Thanks for such rich information!!!!
  
 I think I'd better put AU-20000 in my later-pursuing list, it's now too rich for my blood!! And I will put CR-3200 ahead 20000 to chase,
 Do you know how many 20000 did Sausui produce? It seems the most expensive IA in vintage models.


----------



## petemac110

dryvadeum said:


> Hey guys, has anyone had any experience or knowledge on the Sansui AU 999? Theres one at my local pawn store for $139. I was planning to run my LCD 2s out of it.


 
  
  
 If it's in good condition, BUY IT, and if you dont' like it then you can resell it easily. They typically sell for $600-900 in Australia.
  
 If you don't buy it, I'd be darn interested in it if it was in Sydney!
  
 They are very nice amps which sound even better after a thorough refurbishment. There are a few modifications that can be undertaken to improve their sonic performance,especially the bass depth and slam (which I saw you mention in a subsequent thread). I restored and modded one recently and it's my favourite early 70's Sansui amplifier.
  
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=515652


----------



## dogwan

matttcg said:


> That's the last straw!! I now declare that I'll be moving to Oregon next week to get dibs on better vintage gear.


 
  
 Don't bother!
  
 It's crowded as hell here and the weather sucks. People are mean, there's no good coffee or beer, and between the mountains, deserts, and coast the state has an identity crisis.
  
 Nothing to see here, keep moving along........


----------



## MattTCG

Okay, if anyone knows about the Sansui model 8, I have a question. It's really an impression piece of gear. There is one character flaw that bugs me. If you are using the AUX in from the dac to the model 8, all the lights on the front are turned off except one small red light that says AUX. And I mean every single light except the one. Don't like it. Is there a way around this or a possible mod?
  
  
 thanks..


----------



## petemac110

matttcg said:


> Okay, if anyone knows about the Sansui model 8, I have a question. It's really an impression piece of gear. There is one character flaw that bugs me. If you are using the AUX in from the dac to the model 8, all the lights on the front are turned off except one small red light that says AUX. And I mean every single light except the one. Don't like it. Is there a way around this or a possible mod?
> 
> 
> thanks..




I'll see if I can borrow the Eight that my father owns on the weekend and will check it out.


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you kindly Pete!! I saw a thread on AK once showing how to get the needle indicator light to stay on for the 9090 by just changing a pin in one of the molex connectors around. 
  
 The problem with the model eight is that it always look like it's off. And I have ended up leaving it on a few times because of this.


----------



## fjosh

All I have to take pics is a cell phone.  Yamaha CA-1010 125 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms, which is the impedance of my Polk RTA-12B's


----------



## LugBug1

Nice Yamaha!


----------



## Oregonian

fjosh said:


> All I have to take pics is a cell phone.  Yamaha CA-1010 125 watts x 2 @ 4 ohms, which is the impedance of my Polk RTA-12B's


 
  
 Nice Yammy.  Question - are you using it with your TV system?  And if so, how is it configured?  I've been toying with doing this with one of my spare vintage amps.


----------



## fjosh

oregonian said:


> Nice Yammy.  Question - are you using it with your TV system?  And if so, how is it configured?  I've been toying with doing this with one of my spare vintage amps.


 
  
 It coincides with the Yamaha RX-V667 above it which has preouts.  The CA-1010 is powering the main L/R Polk RTA-12B's and the RX-V667 is powering the Polk Monitor 5 centers and Polk Monitor 4 rear surrounds (not pictured).
  
 I can use either receiver for my headphones.


----------



## kstuart

palmfish said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > There is currently no complete scientific theory covering all of acoustic and/or audio reproduction.  Trial-and-error shows that certain measurements have certain correlations in some circumstances - and that makes it easier to design headphones, rather than having no starting point at all.
> ...


 
 Ohms law is electrical, and is not about acoustics or audio, and lastly is not a complete scientific theory.   It's very helpful in designing any electrical circuit, but doesn't tell you what it will sound like.


----------



## palmfish

I was responding specifically to jasonb's comment about wishing he knew the science behind why the HD800 will sound bassier powered by a high output impedane vintage amp.

Amplifiers and headphones are electrical devices, and Ohms law explains why a high output impedance acts as a voltage divider, thus causing the frequency response to mirror the impedance curve.


----------



## 5aces

Meewoo said:
			
		

> .Do you know how many 20000 did Sausui produce? It seems the most expensive IA in vintage models.




I have no definitive answer for the units sold but Sansui was at their peak for sales in 1976, some say.
Still remember walking into a Sansui dealer that sold a ton of stereo gear to University of Toronto students.
Picked up a brand spanking new set in '76, was I ever pumped that day...
An old AU 20000 is worth the repairs to keep it running.
Like the old car show says _"Don't Crush Them, Restore Them"_

Put a bid cap in for $940, you just never know, it's still sitting below $700 atm.


----------



## roadcykler

kstuart said:


> Ohms law is electrical, and is not about acoustics or audio, and lastly is not a complete scientific theory.   It's very helpful in designing any electrical circuit, but doesn't tell you what it will sound like.


 
  
 And it's almost 100% guaranteed that your ears are the only thing that will accurately tell you what something sounds like. Anyone can tell you what something sounds like, but until you hear it for yourself, it's a guess.
  
 A recent example. Stereophile and lots of other outlets have given high praise to these small Pioneer speakers that were designed by Andrew Jones (some supposedly great speaker guy). I happened to see that they were on sale at Best Buy and thought I would buy them for my small computer room. When I first played some music, the highs were hardly there. Even when I asked my wife (who couldn't care less about audio) to listen to them, with no prompting she said that the "high part" seemed to be muffled or lower. 
  
 I took them back the next day and stuck with the Paradigms I already have. Let your own ears be your judge.


----------



## Trav

roadcykler said:


> And it's almost 100% guaranteed that your ears are the only thing that will accurately tell you what something sounds like. Anyone can tell you what something sounds like, but until you hear it for yourself, it's a guess.
> 
> A recent example. Stereophile and lots of other outlets have given high praise to these small Pioneer speakers that were designed by Andrew Jones (some supposedly great speaker guy). I happened to see that they were on sale at Best Buy and thought I would buy them for my small computer room. When I first played some music, the highs were hardly there. Even when I asked my wife (who couldn't care less about audio) to listen to them, with no prompting she said that the "high part" seemed to be muffled or lower.
> 
> I took them back the next day and stuck with the Paradigms I already have. Let your own ears be your judge.


I also listened to them briefly but the environment wasn't optimum and passed on them as well. Jones is one of the TAD Reference guys. Quite a resume.


----------



## calipilot227

I own a pair myself (SP-BS21LR), and I thought they were on the bright side. I used them in a nearfield setup for quite some time.


----------



## SpeakerBox

roadcykler said:


> And it's almost 100% guaranteed that your ears are the only thing that will accurately tell you what something sounds like. Anyone can tell you what something sounds like, but until you hear it for yourself, it's a guess.
> 
> A recent example. Stereophile and lots of other outlets have given high praise to these small Pioneer speakers that were designed by Andrew Jones (some supposedly great speaker guy). I happened to see that they were on sale at Best Buy and thought I would buy them for my small computer room. When I first played some music, the highs were hardly there. Even when I asked my wife (who couldn't care less about audio) to listen to them, with no prompting she said that the "high part" seemed to be muffled or lower.
> 
> I took them back the next day and stuck with the Paradigms I already have. Let your own ears be your judge.


 
  
 Agree 100%.  I am an electrical engineer and have been designing speakers for over 30 years as a hobby.  The math is almost never the last word.  I always end up tweaking (and tweaking, and tweaking,.........) the final sound by ear, and as I understand it Henry Kloss did some of that with the Advent design too.  It is not an exact science.


----------



## Newschool

I recently got a Mcintosh mc2205 speaker power amp from my dad that's from the late 70's. 200 watts per channel rms and 500 watts per channel peak. And that's rated true across the entire frequency range with low distortion to 500 watts. Really an amazing amp. It has an auto former so it has 1 ohm, 2 ohm, 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps. I've been using it to power my cerwin vega speakers and it should be powering some magnepans within the next month. I've also been using the 1 ohm tap to power my dt990's and my cousin's he500's (he is nimzerz on headfi). Sounds amazing and has unlimited power. Works out to be 1 watt into 250 ohms and about 10 watts into 28 ohms. Perfect for both of our headphones.

I'm out of town but ill post a picture when I get home this weekend.


----------



## LugBug1

newschool said:


> I recently got a Mcintosh mc2205 speaker power amp from my dad that's from the late 70's. 200 watts per channel rms and 500 watts per channel peak. And that's rated true across the entire frequency range with low distortion to 500 watts. Really an amazing amp. It has an auto former so it has 1 ohm, 2 ohm, 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps. I've been using it to power my cerwin vega speakers and it should be powering some magnepans within the next month. I've also been using the 1 ohm tap to power my dt990's and my cousin's he500's (he is nimzerz on headfi). Sounds amazing and has unlimited power. Works out to be 1 watt into 250 ohms and about 10 watts into 28 ohms. Perfect for both of our headphones.
> 
> I'm out of town but *ill post a picture when I get home this weekend.*


 






 Good stuff


----------



## Sekka

Would something like the Harmon Kardon 630 be audibly better than say, the FiiO E9K for a headphone like the Mad Dog?  Would it work well with a low impedance, low sensitivity headphone, or would it blow the drivers and my eardrums?
  
 I don't know much about vintage receivers, but they seem to put out an insane amount of power for almost nothing and have ridiculous build quality.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

sekka said:


> Would something like the Harmon Kardon 630 be audibly better than say, the FiiO E9K for a headphone like the Mad Dog?  Would it work well with a low impedance, low sensitivity headphone, or would it blow the drivers and my eardrums?
> 
> I don't know much about vintage receivers, but they seem to put out an insane amount of power for almost nothing and have ridiculous build quality.


 
  
 What do you described as ridiculous build quality?


----------



## Sekka

pixelsphotopro said:


> What do you described as ridiculous build quality?


 
 Ridiculously good, at least compared to something modern of the same price.
  
 Wasn't the point of my post, though.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

sekka said:


> Ridiculously good, at least compared to something modern of the same price.
> 
> Wasn't the point of my post, though.


 
  
 Sorry I did not read the previous post.


----------



## moodyrn

Ok one last update on the marantz 2325 saga. I last reported that ebay ruled in my favor and gave me  full refund and told me the item was mine to do what I wanted to do with. At the time I was really upset with the seller by how he treated me and thought about just keeping it since I didn't have to return it. After cooling off for a few days, I decided to give him one last chance. I told him if he would just send me a shipping label or send me funds to cover shipping, I would still be willing to ship it back to him.
  
 To my utter surprise, he said no. Instead he wanted me to pay him again. So I guess the guy never really wanted it back, and knew what he was sending me wasn't anything close to what was in his description. All I ever asked for from the beginning was to ship it back on his dime. Unbelievable!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am guessing this guy's feedback rating is not very good?


----------



## kstuart

sekka said:


> Would something like the Harmon Kardon 630 be audibly better than say, the FiiO E9K for a headphone like the Mad Dog?  Would it work well with a low impedance, low sensitivity headphone, or would it blow the drivers and my eardrums?
> 
> I don't know much about vintage receivers, but they seem to put out an insane amount of power for almost nothing and have ridiculous build quality.


 
 Plug in the Mad Dog to the jack marked "Phones" like shown below and enjoy!
 It will only blow your eardrums if you turn the volume too high - always do that slowly.
 Note that it is over 40 years old, so some internal electronic components, such as capacitors, may be too old to produce their original specifications.  So, it may or may not sound as good as originally designed...


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> I am guessing this guy's feedback rating is not very good?


 
 He had a 99.6 mostly from sellers not buyers. His lone negative feedback came from another buyer who claimed he didn't received what was advertised. Looks like he willing to say whatever just to try to milk every penny he can.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Had a 430 for a while that had excellent sound.  No Mad Dogs to try on it at the time though.
  


kstuart said:


> Plug in the Mad Dog to the jack marked "Phones" like shown below and enjoy!
> It will only blow your eardrums if you turn the volume too high - always do that slowly.
> Note that it is over 40 years old, so some internal electronic components, such as capacitors, may be too old to produce their original specifications.  So, it may or may not sound as good as originally designed...


----------



## kstuart

Just to clarify, the Mad Dog headphones did not exist the last time I heard one of those Harmon Kardons in that 1972 receiver series.
 It would not be possible to say whether that would be a good pairing in advance of just trying it.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> He had a 99.6 mostly from sellers not buyers. His lone negative feedback came from another buyer who claimed he didn't received what was advertised. Looks like he willing to say whatever just to try to milk every penny he can.


 
  
 I can't see any harm in naming and shaming him. He's clearly one to avoid and peeps like him are very bad for the community. 
  
 They aren't in it for any love of the equipment or respect for the collectors, just for money..


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is also possible to have a bad experience as a seller.  I frequently refurbish vintage receivers and sell on Ebay.  Just a month or so ago someone bought a unit from me and out of the blue left negative feedback saying one channel was out (I always add a note to my posts asking the buyer to contact me before leaving negative feedback so I can fix the problem).   I knew the unit was working perfectly when I shipped it.   About an hour later he sent me a note saying he had made a mistake in connecting one of the speakers and it was working as described.  I made multiple efforts to ask him to contact Ebay and correct his feedback and got no reply's.  It took several days of wrangling with Ebay, but they read the email he sent saying it was working and removed the negative feedback for me.  A pain, but I am back to 100% positive now.


----------



## LugBug1

Yeah I always try and keep contact via email throughout the whole sale process. I find it helps if there are any problems because I like to think it makes me more approachable for any issues. Obviously this is easier to do if you only sell every now and then. But I actually enjoy the banter because we are in the same hobby.
  
 I've had one bad buyer over the 8 years I've been selling on the bay. Claimed the item was defective 2 weeks after he received it..... They were brand new Westone 2's that I sold because I didn't like them. Thus to say I refused to give the refund and he gave me bad feedback. Really annoying, but if everyone was nice and sincere... It would be a perfect world. But it isn't.


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> It is also possible to have a bad experience as a seller.  I frequently refurbish vintage receivers and sell on Ebay.  Just a month or so ago someone bought a unit from me and out of the blue left negative feedback saying one channel was out (I always add a note to my posts asking the buyer to contact me before leaving negative feedback so I can fix the problem).   I knew the unit was working perfectly when I shipped it.   About an hour later he sent me a note saying he had made a mistake in connecting one of the speakers and it was working as described.  I made multiple efforts to ask him to contact Ebay and correct his feedback and got no reply's.  It took several days of wrangling with Ebay, but they read the email he sent saying it was working and removed the negative feedback for me.  A pain, but I am back to 100% positive now.


 
  
  
 Lol the same thing happen to me when I sold...wait for it....a marantz 2325 lol. What a coincidence. The buyer thankfully later found a speaker switcher he was using was faulty. He later apologized and had feedback removed. Which is why I always contact the seller first to give them evey opportunity to resolve any problems, just like I did in this situation.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Great story!  I actually find waiting for feedback a little nerve racking.  You know the item was good when you shipped it but wonder in the back of your mind if something happened during transit.


----------



## 5aces

*Meewoo* - there ya go, I was pretty close on that estimate...


----------



## Anavel0

Anyone have any experience with a Kenwood KR-11000GX or Pioneer SA-8800? Both just popped up near me for not a lot.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> It is also possible to have a bad experience as a seller.  I frequently refurbish vintage receivers and sell on Ebay.  Just a month or so ago someone bought a unit from me and out of the blue left negative feedback saying one channel was out (I always add a note to my posts asking the buyer to contact me before leaving negative feedback so I can fix the problem).   I knew the unit was working perfectly when I shipped it.   About an hour later he sent me a note saying he had made a mistake in connecting one of the speakers and it was working as described.  I made multiple efforts to ask him to contact Ebay and correct his feedback and got no reply's.  It took several days of wrangling with Ebay, but they read the email he sent saying it was working and removed the negative feedback for me.  A pain, but I am back to 100% positive now.


 
  
 I had the same thing happen - I had to part out a set of speakers that I couldn't find replacement drivers for (so I couldn't complete a restoration... ). I sold a mismatched pair of the tweeters and I got negative feedback out of the blue that they sounded different. No prior contact, nothing. Hint - I sold them as a pair because they had different part numbers. It was literally in the listing title and in the description. He said it wasn't as described. I contacted him and offered to make it right. I gave him a partial refund because my 100% seller rating is more important to me than being right, but I was really upset about it. I wish he had contacted me first. I did learn that there is a mechanism for ebay to ask them to change their feedback. He was satisfied, if only because he basically got it for free.


----------



## LugBug1

anavel0 said:


> Anyone have any experience with a Kenwood KR-11000GX or Pioneer SA-8800? Both just popped up near me for not a lot.


 
 Either or! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Condition, price etc..
  
 If it was me, it would be the Pioneer...


----------



## Anavel0

lugbug1 said:


> Either or! :tongue_smile:
> 
> Condition, price etc..
> 
> If it was me, it would be the Pioneer...




Both are in good condition, the kr-11000 has even had its cabinet wood refinished. Both have had deoxit treatments. Don't think either has been recapped though. 

Purely going by specs, the Kenwood is more powerful. For what it's worth. 

And for the life of me I can't remember the SA amp to SX receiver numbering scheme.


----------



## LugBug1

anavel0 said:


> Both are in good condition, the kr-11000 has even had its cabinet wood refinished. Both have had deoxit treatments. Don't think either has been recapped though.
> 
> Purely going by specs, the Kenwood is more powerful. For what it's worth.
> 
> And for the life of me I can't remember the SA amp to SX receiver numbering scheme.


 
  
 I personally wouldn't concern yourself with the Pioneer numbering scheme to compare to the receivers. 80 watts of 1970's power per channel. 79-81 was classic Pioneer at its peak.. Only the 9800 above it.


----------



## Meewoo

5aces said:


> *Meewoo* - there ya go, I was pretty close on that estimate...


 
  
 Haha, I was typing $900 when bidding price jumped from $760 to $1200. I didn't even have a chance at all...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The $1625 price reached an hour before bid ending, no snipe bidding. I think people check this thread for price info (you set the price).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I will wait patiently for next showtime!!!


----------



## 5aces

meewoo said:


> (you set the price)




Not too many of those pieces slip through at a bargain.
Even less of a chance deal are the separates, CA 3000 preamplifier and BA 3000 power amplifier.
Rarer yet is the BA 5000 power amplifier, people always take notice, bid up and scurry away to their listening cave.

Fist bump for trying !


----------



## kstuart

If members want to know what it costs to get a classic (but not TOTL) receiver in totally restored state, an ebay auction just closed for one... according to various threads, this is the lowest model that is in the upper series that tops out with the SX-1250:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-850-Stereo-Receiver-Completely-Restored-Beautiful-/221277867680?ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:3160


----------



## Skylab

I saw that listing and whoever won that will be very happy, I think!


----------



## nailbunny7

We have a vintage audio store near me that does professional restorations on all their receivers and even sells them with warranty. They even currently have a Pioneer SX-5570 for 300 dollars and it looks brand new. If I didn't already have the 5590 I would have definitely bought that (though I considered it anyways, tbh).


----------



## dryvadeum

My father in law just gave me a Kenwood KA 9100. Are they any good?


----------



## LugBug1

dryvadeum said:


> My father in law just gave me a Kenwood KA 9100. Are they any good?


 
  
 Nice father in law!! 
  
 Yes, havent heard but that is an absolute belter you've got there! Twin transformers high end Kenwood. And with meters! 1977 and 90 watts per channel. 
  
 Pics pleasey


----------



## DarKen23

Wow, what a awesome thread. Didnt even realize vintage amp heads were this big.
Im sure this isnt even close to vintage, but its the most "vintage" thing Ive got. And it kicks ass with the HD800 :basshead:



To the person that has this:


.. What else does it do?


----------



## LugBug1

darken23 said:


> Wow, what a awesome thread. Didnt even realize vintage amp heads were this big.
> Im sure this isnt even close to vintage, but its the most "vintage" thing Ive got. And it kicks ass with the HD800
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo Ken, welcome to the vintage corner. Nice Pioneer, and thats a reverb amp. It makes pretty colors and adds a bit verb. Was a Sansui fad from the 70's. Very collectable.


----------



## DarKen23

lugbug1 said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, what a awesome thread. Didnt even realize vintage amp heads were this big.
> ...


 Thank you kindly LugBug1, Ive had that vsx-406 receiver for awhile now--when all else fails the 406 is always there, only if it had more transparency. I have another Onkyo receiver possibly older, I cant remember the year and model but Ill check when I get to work tomorrow *crossing finger* hopefully its a gem. 

Yea that Sansui is sick. Id like to have one just to look at the purty colors.


----------



## dryvadeum

The power knob has come off and is a bit bent but it still works. I think it needs a clean though cos I tried using my LCDs with it and the channels were cutting out or had crackling whenever I fiddled with the volume or filters. 

Any advice on cleaning it?


----------



## Oregonian

dryvadeum said:


> The power knob has come off and is a bit bent but it still works. I think it needs a clean though cos I tried using my LCDs with it and the channels were cutting out or had crackling whenever I fiddled with the volume or filters.
> 
> Any advice on cleaning it?




Nice find. Deoxit is your friend. Do a Google search for something like the idiots guide to Deoxit and you'll find the thread on Audiokarma to teach you how it is done.

Stuff works miracles.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow what  a gift!! Congrats. That kenwood was totl; the only integrateds they made that were better were the supreme series followed by the 907. You should be very happy with how it sounds assuming there aren't and major issues. The 9100 was a great design and a direct competitor to the sansui au 717, and one of the best kept secrets out there.


----------



## wotts

darken23 said:


> Thank you kindly LugBug1, Ive had that vsx-406 receiver for awhile now--when all else fails the 406 is always there, only if it had more transparency. I have another Onkyo receiver possibly older, I cant remember the year and model but Ill check when I get to work tomorrow *crossing finger* hopefully its a gem.
> 
> *Yea that Sansui is sick. Id like to have one just to look at the purty colors*.


 
  
  
 That is exactly why I bought mine. I've used it a few times, but the lights are more fun.


----------



## DarKen23

wotts said:


> darken23 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you kindly LugBug1, Ive had that vsx-406 receiver for awhile now--when all else fails the 406 is always there, only if it had more transparency. I have another Onkyo receiver possibly older, I cant remember the year and model but Ill check when I get to work tomorrow *crossing finger* hopefully its a gem.
> ...


Give it here


----------



## kstuart

dryvadeum said:


> The power knob has come off and is a bit bent but it still works. I think it needs a clean though cos I tried using my LCDs with it and the channels were cutting out or had crackling whenever I fiddled with the volume or filters.
> 
> Any advice on cleaning it?


 
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## petemac110

dryvadeum said:


> My father in law just gave me a Kenwood KA 9100. Are they any good?




Score!! They are nice amps indeed.

A word of advice though... For some unknown reason, Kenwood decided to use powerpack output modules on these amps, rather than discrete outputs. The powerpacks are now unobtanium, so if they blow, the amp becomes an paperweight.

I'd get the amp serviced at an absolute minimum, and if you are happy with the sound, consider getting a rebuild.

This gives you an idea what the amps are like internally, and what is involved with a recap and restoration:

http://www.cdkands.com/ka91002/ka91001.html


----------



## Oregonian

petemac110 said:


> Score!! They are nice amps indeed.
> 
> A word of advice though... For some unknown reason, Kenwood decided to use powerpack output modules on these amps, rather than discrete outputs. The powerpacks are now unobtanium, so if they blow, the amp becomes an paperweight.
> 
> ...




I read through that link and am speechless...........the time and effort put in is incredible. Wonder what the cost for that project was?


----------



## kstuart

oregonian said:


> petemac110 said:
> 
> 
> > Score!! They are nice amps indeed.
> ...


 
 When I saw "this is not routed right!" I knew I had seen that web page before...
 ... it's just like restoring an 1967 Mustang from an old rusted junker... either you enjoy doing that sort of thing or you don't... if you do enjoy it, then you have a fun hobby, and you have a great amp (or car) when you are done...
  
 My restored Sansui AU-417 came from a guy whose hobby is looking for Sansuis and then restoring them in his free time.   His day job is car technician (coincidentally)...


----------



## jasonb

Do we have anybody in here who knows the inner workings of these vintage Pioneers?
  
 Pretty much every time I start my SX-750 up I get some distortion and channel imbalance for the first 3-5 minutes. It will go away after a few seconds and then sometimes come back after a few seconds or minutes. It'll go away on it's own or go away as I adjust the volume knob. I've already shot a whole bunch of DeOxit in all of the pots. To me it just doesn't seem like it's a pot issue since it goes away completely after about 5 minutes or so of warm-up. After about 3-5 minutes of warm up time it goes away completely and won't come back for the rest of the listening session. After it warms up it sounds spectacular, but it's just a bit annoying that it takes a few minutes to sound right. 
  
 Is there something wrong that I can fix, or is it simply the unit warming up?


----------



## kstuart

Congrats to Oregonian and JasonB on being selected for the loan of the Alpha Dog !


----------



## parbaked

jasonb said:


> Do we have anybody in here who knows the inner workings of these vintage Pioneers?


 
 http://akdatabase.org/AKview/albums/userpics/10004/Pioneer%20SX750%20Service.pdf


----------



## petemac110

oregonian said:


> I read through that link and am speechless...........the time and effort put in is incredible. Wonder what the cost for that project was?


 
  
 I'm not quite sure what the going rate would be over in the USA for this kind of work, but you'd be looking at around $500-600 for a commercial workshop here in Australia to undertake a thorough resto like that, or around $300-400 for a non-commercial vintage specialist/enthusiast to undertake the work. There's certainly plenty of demand for the latter category - it is my hobby and keeps me quite busy!


----------



## Oregonian

petemac110 said:


> I'm not quite sure what the going rate would be over in the USA for this kind of work, but you'd be looking at around $500-600 for a commercial workshop here in Australia to undertake a thorough resto like that, or around $300-400 for a non-commercial vintage specialist/enthusiast to undertake the work. There's certainly plenty of demand for the latter category - it is my hobby and keeps me quite busy!




That cost is very reasonable. Including parts?


----------



## jasonb

parbaked said:


> http://akdatabase.org/AKview/albums/userpics/10004/Pioneer%20SX750%20Service.pdf


 

thanks for that, but it doesn't tell me what my issue is, or if I even have an issue.


----------



## kstuart

jasonb said:


> parbaked said:
> 
> 
> > http://akdatabase.org/AKview/albums/userpics/10004/Pioneer%20SX750%20Service.pdf
> ...


 
 The way you word the description is a little ambiguous.
  
 However, a few days back, I mentioned that someone at AK pointed out that it takes up to 5 minutes for the Bias current to stabilize.
  
 If there is never a problem after 5 minutes, then that seems a likely explanation, that it takes that long to stabilize.


----------



## captouch

jasonb said:


> thanks for that, but it doesn't tell me what my issue is, or if I even have an issue.




If playing with the volume pot can make the problem completely go away before the 3-5min warm up time, then the pot would seem to be the issue. But if you pretty consistently have to wait for warm-up to get normal operation, it sounds like a marginal component (maybe transistor?) that requires warm-up before it's stable. Some have used cold spray to try and isolate bad components, but I've never done that myself. Seems okay as long as it doesn't create moisture leading to possible shorts. Could even be two issues if the playing with the pot helps, but doesn't fully resolve the issue before the 3-5min is up.

Do you have a service manual? There are certain known marginal transistors that don't age well.


----------



## petemac110

oregonian said:


> That cost is very reasonable. Including parts?


 
  
  
 Yes, that includes parts and labour, but generally excluding the large power supply caps. They can vary from $40-100 depending upon the amp (eg. four 15000uf 63V Nichicon Gold Tunes are $100).


----------



## roadcykler

Question for the more knowledgeable here. On many of these vintage receivers/amps, there are 2 phono inputs. Are those inputs on the same circuit from the beginning or do they merge later or not at all? Thanks.


----------



## harrinj

I am 'thinking' about getting Hi-Fi Man He-500 headphones, do you awesome people think they would pair well with vintage amps? I'f I get it, I'd get a fiio Mont blanc amp for mobile use as well for my Note 2.


----------



## Coolzo

One of the best looking of my most recent finds. Mint condition and re-lamped, going to try and flip it around probably as I don't have much space in the recording studio or bedroom. $250 sound like a decent asking price?
  
 More gear incoming :3


----------



## DarKen23

coolzo said:


> One of the best looking of my most recent finds. Mint condition and re-lamped, going to try and flip it around probably as I don't have much space in the recording studio or bedroom. $250 sound like a decent asking price?
> 
> More gear incoming :3


Wow, what a beauty..eye candy for days.. Congratulations


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> I am 'thinking' about getting Hi-Fi Man He-500 headphones, do you awesome people think they would pair well with vintage amps? I'f I get it, I'd get a fiio Mont blanc amp for mobile use as well for my Note 2.


 
 I know the HE500's well, but I owned them before I got into vintage. But my guess is that they will be perfect for vintage amps. They're quite efficient for planars but sound better the more power you give them.  
  
  
  


coolzo said:


> One of the best looking of my most recent finds. Mint condition and re-lamped, going to try and flip it around probably as I don't have much space in the recording studio or bedroom. $250 sound like a decent asking price?
> 
> More gear incoming :3


 
 That seems like a fair price to me. Looks to be in great condition and the sound of the late 70's models is much better ime. Are you sure you want to sell??!


----------



## Coolzo

darken23 said:


> Wow, what a beauty..eye candy for days.. Congratulations


 
  


lugbug1 said:


> I know the HE500's well, but I owned them before I got into vintage. But my guess is that they will be perfect for vintage amps. They're quite efficient for planars but sound better the more power you give them.
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like a fair price to me. Looks to be in great condition and the sound of the late 70's models is much better ime. Are you sure you want to sell??!


 
  
 Thanks  It is very gorgeous indeed, which alone makes me not want to sell it... but I may have to, as I borrowed money from a family member to fund a recent, higher-priority gear purchase for the studio. I'll be trying to keep it though!


----------



## harrinj

coolzo said:


> One of the best looking of my most recent finds. Mint condition and re-lamped, going to try and flip it around probably as I don't have much space in the recording studio or bedroom. $250 sound like a decent asking price?
> 
> More gear incoming :3


 
  
 Wow! Marantz is so beautiful! I have a totally mint 2220B. Taking my 4400 in to get looked at in a couple days. I'm looking for a 4300 now.


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> I know the HE500's well, but I owned them before I got into vintage. But my guess is that they will be perfect for vintage amps. They're quite efficient for planars but sound better the more power you give them.
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like a fair price to me. Looks to be in great condition and the sound of the late 70's models is much better ime. Are you sure you want to sell??!


 
  
 Thank you for replying. I am considering them. How did you like yours? I'd use them with a Kenwood KA-7100 or my Marantz 4400.


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> Thank you for replying. I am considering them. How did you like yours? I'd use them with a Kenwood KA-7100 or my Marantz 4400.


 
  
 I really liked them. I started this thread last year which includes a little review 
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> I really liked them. I started this thread last year which includes a little review
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/639785/he500-or-lcd2-or-both-please-share-your-impressions-mini-review-and-poll-please-vote


 
  
 Ok well I definitely might get them. Do you think a Fiio Mont Blanc would be adequate for mobile use? obviously that would be rare like just on trips, mainly home use. 

 You think they'd be good for Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Leonard Cohen, Roy Orbison etc?


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> Ok well I definitely might get them. Do you think a Fiio Mont Blanc would be adequate for mobile use? obviously that would be rare like just on trips, mainly home use.
> 
> You think they'd be good for Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Leonard Cohen, Roy Orbison etc?


 
  
 The Fiio will drive them, but nowhere near their capability. The HE400's would be better for mobile use in that sense as they are more efficient. Having said that I powered mine with a little c'moy once and they didn't sound too bad. But bare in mind that all planars require more power than normal dynamics.
  
 Getting back to vintage though ; The HE500's should be ideal. And yes those old classics will sound amazing. I'm a big Zep fan and the 500's are great at reproducing electric guitar, they have a classic planar mid range and probably the best treble I've heard in a headphone. A vintage amp will help bring out the soundstage too.


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> The Fiio will drive them, but nowhere near their capability. The HE400's would be better for mobile use in that sense as they are more efficient. Having said that I powered mine with a little c'moy once and they didn't sound too bad. But bare in mind that all planars require more power than normal dynamics.
> 
> Getting back to vintage though ; The HE500's should be ideal. And yes those old classics will sound amazing. I'm a big Zep fan and the 500's are great at reproducing electric guitar, they have a classic planar mid range and probably the best treble I've heard in a headphone. A vintage amp will help bring out the soundstage too.


 
  
 Yeah I have K702 or DT990 I'd use for normal mobile use. I also have an HD598 but wont wear those outside the house LOL. 

 Yeah I've been interested in a Planar Magnetic headphone for awhile and this will be my first really expensive headphone! I was also thinking about the T1 but already having the DT990's I don't think there would be a hell of a lot of difference. plus the HE-500 is cheaper and I could also get a much needed portable amp... 

 One more thing, I have a schiit Valhalla, you think that would have enough power and go well with it too?

 Thank you for replying. I appreciate it!


----------



## Skylab

roadcykler said:


> Question for the more knowledgeable here. On many of these vintage receivers/amps, there are 2 phono inputs. Are those inputs on the same circuit from the beginning or do they merge later or not at all? Thanks.




At least in the Pioneer SX-1280 and 1980, the answer is they start different and merge at some point. In those two, they use the same set of transistors for gain, but the beginning of the input stages are different, since Phono 1 has loading options, and Phono 2 does not. 

@Harrinj - Planars and vintage are indeed a match made in heaven! The Valhalla, though, is NOT ideal for Planars. It's great with high impedance Senns and Beyers. The Lyr is the Schiit for Planars. But since you have nice vintage stuff, that's what is would use for the HE-500.


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> Yeah I have K702 or DT990 I'd use for normal mobile use. I also have an HD598 but wont wear those outside the house LOL.
> 
> Yeah I've been interested in a Planar Magnetic headphone for awhile and this will be my first really expensive headphone! I was also thinking about the T1 but already having the DT990's I don't think there would be a hell of a lot of difference. plus the HE-500 is cheaper and I could also get a much needed portable amp...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good stuff. The Valhalla is OTL and ideally suited for higher impedance phones - 300ohm types. The 500's are about 50ohm? I think, so ideally they will require more current. I know some are happy using otl amps with planars but on paper its a bad idea. The Lyr is much more suitable as it is a hybrid and has bags of current and tubes for voltage swings. But I'd be more inclined to use a good vintage amp 
  
 Best keep on topic now my friend


----------



## Destroysall

harrinj said:


> Wow! Marantz is so beautiful! I have a totally mint 2220B.


 
 Speaking of the 2220b, is it better than the 2226? I do know it is a bit older, if I am not mistaken..


----------



## SpeakerBox

destroysall said:


> Speaking of the 2220b, is it better than the 2226? I do know it is a bit older, if I am not mistaken..


 
  
 I have not heard the 2226B, but I do remember the 2220B sounding much better that the 2215B or 2230 I once had.  Much better definition and detail.


----------



## kstuart

lugbug1 said:


> harrinj said:
> 
> 
> > Ok well I definitely might get them. Do you think a Fiio Mont Blanc would be adequate for mobile use? obviously that would be rare like just on trips, mainly home use.
> ...


 
 I own HE-400s and I have to disagree.   I think they are just like the other HiFiMan planars in their need for a lot of power.   I have a Cmoy and the HE-400s are the only headphones that I have tried that do not work well with the Cmoy.
  
 I recently obtained a 1985 Kenwood power amp - 330 watts per channel - with built-in headphone jack and while using that, I realized that it is the first time that the HE-400 have worked properly.
  
 So, why do people say that they work better with less power than HE-500 or other HiFiMan planars ?   Simply because they are much less in price, so they are bought by people who do not have the money for high power amps.  And most head-fi'ers don't use vintage amps, they want something they can order from Amazon or new from a brick-and-mortar store.
  
 Lastly, if you can wait a few weeks, the new Alpha Dog will start shipping by the end of the month, which is a planar that is $100 less than HE-500 and has been getting rave reviews:
  
 http://youtu.be/ujMMG-sc4lw
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones


----------



## LugBug1

Not really us that states the he400's are more efficient. Its the manufacturers... Take Fang to court!
  






 
  
 But all this is for another thread


----------



## palmfish

Vintage receivers and planar headphones should be a match made in heaven - electrically speaking...

Flat impedance across the freq spectrum and no acoustic dampening required of the driver means the output impedance of the amp is of little/no importance.

IME though, planar headphones dont start "coming alive" until they are at high volume. At lower volumes where I listen, they were all mids and kind of murky/thick sounding.


----------



## kstuart

lugbug1 said:


> Not really us that states the he400's are more efficient. Its the manufacturers... Take Fang to court!


 
 I don't doubt that they are more efficient, but in the case of the HiFiMan's, it seems that it is not just the volume of the output that matters, the sound quality is better with more power, in a way that I don't see with Denons or Sennheiser.
  
 The electrical aspects that Palmfish just mentioned may have something to do with it, although I find the HE-400 to be significantly better with the vintage Kenwood M2A than the vintage restored/recapped Sansui AU-417.


----------



## LugBug1

kstuart said:


> I don't doubt that they are more efficient, but in the case of the HiFiMan's, it seems that* it is not just the volume of the output that matters, the sound quality is better with more power*, in a way that I don't see with Denons or Sennheiser.
> 
> The electrical aspects that Palmfish just mentioned may have something to do with it, although I find the HE-400 to be significantly better with the vintage Kenwood M2A than the vintage restored/recapped Sansui AU-417.


 
  
 Yeah I agree, but that to me is what 'efficient' is. Doing a better job. I would also agree that Denons don't require much to drive them but I would say that the current flagship Senn's do from hd600 onwards. 
  
 Like I said in my previous post, all planars require more power than normal dynamics and I personally wouldn't recommend anything other than a very powerful amp for any of them.  
  
 And this is where vintage amps have the edge. Especially for the money.


----------



## DarKen23

skylab said:


> roadcykler said:
> 
> 
> > Question for the more knowledgeable here. On many of these vintage receivers/amps, there are 2 phono inputs. Are those inputs on the same circuit from the beginning or do they merge later or not at all? Thanks.
> ...


The lyr might be great with planars but its the mjolnir that should be noted as the schiit with planars. When I had the LCD2, there was no better amp for it than the mjolnir.


----------



## roadcykler

harrinj said:


> I am 'thinking' about getting Hi-Fi Man He-500 headphones, do you awesome people think they would pair well with vintage amps? I'f I get it, I'd get a fiio Mont blanc amp for mobile use as well for my Note 2.


 
  
 Mine work well with the receivers I've had. Sansui and now Kenwood.


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Good stuff. The Valhalla is OTL and ideally suited for higher impedance phones - 300ohm types. The 500's are about 50ohm? I think, so ideally they will require more current. I know some are happy using otl amps with planars but on paper its a bad idea. The Lyr is much more suitable as it is a hybrid and has bags of current and tubes for voltage swings. But I'd be more inclined to use a good vintage amp
> 
> Best keep on topic now my friend


 
  
 Thank's.

 oh haha I didn't mean to hijack the thread but eh people were talking about freaking beer for several pages a few weeks back so, this is better than beer and it was regarding vintage amps so... LOL


----------



## harrinj

palmfish said:


> Vintage receivers and planar headphones should be a match made in heaven - electrically speaking...
> 
> Flat impedance across the freq spectrum and no acoustic dampening required of the driver means the output impedance of the amp is of little/no importance.
> 
> IME though, planar headphones dont start "coming alive" until they are at high volume. At lower volumes where I listen, they were all mids and kind of murky/thick sounding.


 
  
 Ok! 

 My Marantz 4400 is 125WPCX2 50WPCX4, Kenwood KT-7100 is 60WPC, HK 670 is 60WPC, Marantz 4240 is 40WPCX2 17WPCX4. 

 Those should be GREAT right? I'd probably mainly use the KT-7100 or the 4400 with them once the 4400 is restored. 

 My Marantz 4400 seems to be sending random spikes in power so I've stopped using it!


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Ok!
> 
> 
> My Marantz 4400 is 125WPCX2 50WPCX4, Kenwood KT-7100 is 60WPC, HK 670 is 60WPC, Marantz 4240 is 40WPCX2 17WPCX4.
> ...




Time for a visit to Dr Doug...........

Interested to hear your impressions on the HE on your vintage so post up when you get a pair.


----------



## joantops

that right,That's what makes the lesser-powered older receivers such a great buy. thanks


----------



## Oregonian

joantops said:


> that right,That's what makes the lesser-powered older receivers such a great buy. thanks


 
 So true.  My Realistic STA-64B is supposedly 20 wpc and the headphone out on that receiver is flat amazing.  Sounds so good and with the loudness switch thrown thumps like you wouldn't believe.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Same thing on my 17WPC Sherwood S-7100A.  Power to spare!


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Time for a visit to Dr Doug...........
> 
> Interested to hear your impressions on the HE on your vintage so post up when you get a pair.


 
  
 Indeed! 

 I'm still thinking about the HE-500 though. $700 is a bit insane though for headphones... I only wish I could try them out and see them in person.


----------



## jwdjwd67

Having read the great posts here I went and fetched my Pioneer SX-650 previously languishing in the back room and tried it out with my AKG Q701's. The SX-650 is fantastic! The pairing with my Q701 is incredibly detailed and the power adds amazing dynamics. It is Very analytic though, which I like, but bordering on a fatiguing at energetic volumes.
  
 I recently picked up a little Mapltree Audio Designs Ear 4 (Original) Tube Amp/Preamp and I enjoy its sound too. Smooth and pretty sterotypically tube like but definitely a chore for it to drive the Q701's which I think are twice the impedance it was meant for. Sounds nice with my RE272 and RE 262's. I think it would be fair to say these two amps are nearly polar opposites as far as listening experience but variety is the spice of life, they say.
  
 So here is the thing... I decided to combine the two. I used the preamp outs of the EAR 4 into the Aux of the SX-650. Now I realize this is not an Ideal plan since I'm basically going preamp, into preamp, into amp* but *it did do some Amazing things to the to sound. I expected some loss of detail to be compensated with smoother listening but I did not expect the *soundstage to dramatically improve along with the imaging.* Suddenly there was a wonderful and shockingly accurate soundspace that the music was all taking place in along with smoother highs and dynamics galore. Holy Perfect World Batman! BUT there is trouble in paradise as you might suspect:
  
 So Here is my complete rig:
  

 Colorfly C4 Pro MAP/ Centrance Reserve Series RCA to Stereo 1/4"/ Mapletree Audio Designs Ear 4 Headphone Amp-Preamp/ Nordost Blue Heaven Interconnects/ Pioneer SX-650/ Zu Mobius Headphone Cable/ AKG Q701
  
 Note the volume controllers in the picture. My Colorfly C4 Pro (God, I love its sound so) is at about 80%, the Ear 4 is at about 80% or so and the SX-650 is at like 30%. This is *usually *enough to reach the higher end of my listen area (which I do not like too high) and really where the a Q701's sound stunning. *BUT* If I go *higher at all on the Pioneer I get terrible distortion no matter where the othere volumes are set.*  At just a hair higher and the noise floors raises in the right channel and some static starts and then *any* more movement up and instant bad distortion. I'm supposing this is a result of my having to go in through the AUX because the 650 does not have main-ins. Below this level on the Pioneer and it is dead silent and there is some real magic in the music but If I want louder I have to push either the EAR 4 or the Colorfly harder.
  
  
 I can live like this cause its sounds better that my wildest expectations but if I want more volume: Do I have to replace my beloved SX-650 with a Pioneer with Pre-Out/Main-Ins? Can anyone recommend a model amp that is of equal sound quality at a reasonable price? Or is this a matter of my old pioneer needing servicing or perhaps I should be going in throught the tape loop? Anyway in a perfect world I want to keep this sound that blew me away and get a bit more volume without feeling like I'm jury-rigging or possibly damaging my amp. Thanks for listening and any help.
 regards
 jeff .


----------



## SpeakerBox

My guess is that you are over driving the aux input and just a tiny increase in volume causes clipping in the early stages of amplification.  Have you tried lowing the input volume way down and just adjusting overall volume with the Pioneer?  The other possibility is that you have an impedance mismatch between the pioneer and other devices.


----------



## jwdjwd67

First, Thanks very much for your reply. 
 Only using the Pioneer volume control was my starting strategy so I began with the CFC4 and EAR as low as I could since I figured I might overload the preamp in the Pioneer but I still got the distortion from the Pioneer even at very low levels. I tried keeping the CFC4 low and increasing the EAR and then the other way round still hoping to control volume using using Pioneer but it kept distorting/clipping even at a low volume level when the Pioneer Volume knob increased. Eventually I ended up at the very high Setting on the CFC4 and EAR and the very low Pioneer setting. It usually worked plenty well for providing adequate volume levels and does sound surprisingly great but it doesn't seem like a final solution. Thanks again.
 regards
 jeff


----------



## jwdjwd67

Sorry if this is a stupid idea but should I try going in through the mic jack or will that have disastrous SQ results?


----------



## SpeakerBox

The MIC jack probably has impedance requirements that your input device would not like - just a guess though.


----------



## kstuart

On the subject of "what is done and what is not done" when you buy a "serviced" vintage amp... I saw one on ebay with the description "completely tech serviced" and asked what that meant, and the seller replied:


> Basically gone through to test & check that everything is functioning internally the way it should & clean & lube parts that need it & run the unit for hours to insure stable condition.


 
 I then asked:


> Does that include either checking that individual components (resistors,capacitors,etc.) are still the same value as originally (e.g. "100 ohms")? And does it include setting the Bias and the D.C. Offset ?


 
 and the reply was:


> I am not a repair Tech. so don't really know. I just take them in for what is called "Basic service".
> Been selling a lot of items over the years & taking them to my Tech & prior to sale with much success!


 
 and that's the problem in a nutshell - most vintage amp owners do not know about the issues discussed in this thread, or on AudioKarma Forums.  The listing price clearly includes the servicing cost, as the amp is "one owner" and that is not the seller, so he is clearly having the service done as a sales gimmick.
 Since anyone can do a clean, Deoxit, and run the amp for several hours, then having it done by a "tech" is only to reassure bidders.  But it does not get the buyer anything, since he says:


> Do to the age & nature of older electronics this item is being sold "As-is"


 
 So, in short, I am not seeing the benefit of buying "serviced" vintage amps, unless the servicing includes recapping or other component replacement.


----------



## PhoenixG

kstuart said:


> On the subject of "what is done and what is not done" when you buy a "serviced" vintage amp... I saw one on ebay with the description "completely tech serviced" and asked what that meant, ...  in short, I am not seeing the benefit of buying "serviced" vintage amps, unless the servicing includes recapping or other component replacement.


 
 I largely agree. I think there should be a small premium for a clean amp, but unless it has been competently serviced (and the seller has to know what happened) I wouldn't pay more for it. I'd want to know why it was serviced and what it entailed for sure.


----------



## LugBug1

I suppose in one sense, it shows that the amp should be working. I've bought amps that were described as fully working but they weren't. If an amp has recently been 'serviced' its generally a good sign that it will work as it should when you receive it.
  
 Also, amps that have been recapped or had any parts of the insides replaced is a rare find and will always be mentioned. Not only because you would be selling something that has been changed from its original state, but also the cost of this will generally be more than what the original amp was worth- if done professionally. Any DIY'ers that replace caps etc will always mention it because they know it adds value and interest. 
  
 But kstuart you are right that most of us could service an amp. A quick squirt on the pots could be construed as "serviced". It's a loose term for sure..
  
 For instance. I "serviced" my wife last night and I could tell that she wasn't very satisfied.


----------



## harrinj

Just ordered the HE-500! unfortunately I will be on vacation for a month so I wont know how great they will be with my vintage gear until I get back. But I will bring my laptop, Nuforce icon HDP and I did order the Fiio Mont Blanc that I can use but I am also bringing my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm so that little amp should be able to drive those at least and the HDP well maybe can do a little justice for the HE-500.


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> Just ordered the HE-500! unfortunately I will be on vacation for a month so I wont know how great they will be with my vintage gear until I get back. But I will bring my laptop, Nuforce icon HDP and I did order the Fiio Mont Blanc that I can use but I am also bringing my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm so that little amp should be able to drive those at least and the HDP well maybe can do a little justice for the HE-500.


 
  
 Congrats! Look forward to your impressions with your vintage gear when you get back.
  
 Don't forget to send us a postcard


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Congrats! Look forward to your impressions with your vintage gear when you get back.
> 
> Don't forget to send us a postcard


 
  
 Thanks! though switched the HDP for my UDH-100  I'm hoping a place I am going today might have a Marantz 4300 or a Kenoowd amp above KT-7100.


----------



## steppenout

Anyone here paired a Sansui AU-717 with the Sennheiser HD-800? Or has anyone heard this pairing?
 I'm loving this amp with my HD-650's but as always...well.....sorry about my wallet!


----------



## DefQon

I have serviced a 417 and 717 and have tested both with the HD800. I did not like the pairing at all, the warm sounding nature took too much of the HD800 sound away, it sounded, less detailed and bit veiled.


----------



## harrinj

Took my 4400 into audio specialties in Portland, OR today. They didn't have a 4300 or much of anything BUT I did get B&0 BEOVOX S60's they sound AMAZING and $170 for the pair.


----------



## roadcykler

harrinj said:


> Indeed!
> 
> I'm still thinking about the HE-500 though. $700 is a bit insane though for headphones... I only wish I could try them out and see them in person.


 
  
 If you're in the Vancouver, WA area, I'd ber happy to let you listen to mine.


----------



## roadcykler

harrinj said:


> Just ordered the HE-500! unfortunately I will be on vacation for a month so I wont know how great they will be with my vintage gear until I get back. But I will bring my laptop, Nuforce icon HDP and I did order the Fiio Mont Blanc that I can use but I am also bringing my Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm so that little amp should be able to drive those at least and the HDP well maybe can do a little justice for the HE-500.


 
  
  


roadcykler said:


> If you're in the Vancouver, WA area, I'd ber happy to let you listen to mine.


 
  
 Nevermind. I hope you enjoy them as much as I do.


----------



## harrinj

roadcykler said:


> If you're in the Vancouver, WA area, I'd ber happy to let you listen to mine.




I live near Coos Bay but thank you for the offer! They come tomorrow can't wait! There was a big Sansui quad receiver for sale on craigslist here been listed forever in Richland, WA but then listing vanished on craigslist :'(


----------



## mr.khali

Hello gentlemen.  Haven't been on this thread since early on because I sold my Pioneer SX980 and Sansui 8080 and settled on a Harman Kardon 730 and she has kept me happy until now for my desktop setup.  I walked into a pawn shop tonight and found a Luxman L-450 and matching tuner for a reasonable price so I grabbed them.  It will be a fun weekend comparing them.  My new love is so beautiful on the outside.  We shall see if her beauty is only skin deep.  Here is a grainy phone pic.


----------



## kstuart

mr.khali said:


> Hello gentlemen.  Haven't been on this thread since early on because I sold my Pioneer SX980 and Sansui 8080 and settled on a Harman Kardon 730 and she has kept me happy until now for my desktop setup.


 
 Can you talk more about why you chose the HK730 over the Pioneer and the Sansui ?


----------



## pixelsphotopro

I did get last week a free Marantz 2220B, in fair condition outside (but when free...)
  
 I'm using 3 different sources:
  
 iPod Classic 7th gen 160gb with LOD cable
 iPad 1rst gen 64gb with LOD cable
 Galaxy S3 with FIIO L15 usb to OTG
  
 I did also get a FIIO E07K and will receive this week the line out dock adapter FIIO L7
  
 My headphone are Grado SR225i
  
 If I use the any of my 2 Apple sources with the FIIO E07K + the FIIO L7 (as a line out) connected to the AUX of my Marantz will I get a cleaner sound?
  
 Thanks for your inputs


----------



## Meewoo

mr.khali said:


> Hello gentlemen.  Haven't been on this thread since early on because I sold my Pioneer SX980 and Sansui 8080 and settled on a Harman Kardon 730 and she has kept me happy until now for my desktop setup.  I walked into a pawn shop tonight and found a Luxman L-450 and matching tuner for a reasonable price so I grabbed them.  It will be a fun weekend comparing them.  My new love is so beautiful on the outside.  We shall see if her beauty is only skin deep.  Here is a grainy phone pic.


 
  
 Haha, Welcome back mr. Khali!! It's always nice to see earlier posters come back!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You missed one L-480 in 2011, and in 2013 you got L-450. What a story!! I got L-480 and T-450 combo this year too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 When you compare those 2 sub 50 wpc pieces, please choose some good records. I think L-450 will excel at good records, especially with sound-stage depth. I'm waiting for your impression!!


----------



## Destroysall

pixelsphotopro said:


> I did get last week a free Marantz 2220B, in fair condition outside (but when free...)


 
 I too received a Marantz 2220B lent from a friend. It's also in fair condition, but even then I can't seem to enjoy the sound of it from the headphone output. It could be dirt from inside the receiver, but I'm not sure if even cleaning it would dramatically improve the sound. I've heard my headphones with a few Pioneer receivers like the SX-780 and have found the sound just so pure and brilliant. I haven't tried the receiver with loudspeakers yet, but I'm not finding it too exciting yet.


----------



## pixelsphotopro

destroysall said:


> I too received a Marantz 2220B lent from a friend. It's also in fair condition, but even then I can't seem to enjoy the sound of it from the headphone output. It could be dirt from inside the receiver, but I'm not sure if even cleaning it would dramatically improve the sound. I've heard my headphones with a few Pioneer receivers like the SX-780 and have found the sound just so pure and brilliant. I haven't tried the receiver with loudspeakers yet, but I'm not finding it too exciting yet.


 
  
 Me too, did not try yet with speakers, I just found that with some genre like Diana Krall that I need to crank the volume up more, like i don't have enough power coming from the headphone jack. Anybody else with the same Marantz can give us some input ?


----------



## harrinj

destroysall said:


> I too received a Marantz 2220B lent from a friend. It's also in fair condition, but even then I can't seem to enjoy the sound of it from the headphone output. It could be dirt from inside the receiver, but I'm not sure if even cleaning it would dramatically improve the sound. I've heard my headphones with a few Pioneer receivers like the SX-780 and have found the sound just so pure and brilliant. I haven't tried the receiver with loudspeakers yet, but I'm not finding it too exciting yet.




I have a mint 2220B while very pretty, I never cared too much for the sound.


----------



## LugBug1

I've got a 2220, (no B) and its my least favorite amp... I only use headphones though. It's defo loud enough, but the sound is lifeless compared to my later 70's Marantz 2216b. It has too much hiss as well, even after I soaked it with Deoxit. 
  
 It looks nice however


----------



## Destroysall

lugbug1 said:


> It has too much hiss as well, even after I soaked it with Deoxit.


 
 I've experienced the same issue myself via the Phono input and Aux input.


----------



## mr.khali

kstuart said:


> Can you talk more about why you chose the HK730 over the Pioneer and the Sansui ?



My decision to keep the HK over the others was mostly because of size not sound. The pioneer was my favorite by just a bit as it's sound seemed to have more air and less warm than the sansui but still dynamic with lots of punch when required. The Pioneer's sound also complemented every headphone opening them up while giving them life. They both were huge however and took up too much real estate on my desk. The HK has lots of power lacking a bit of the soundstage and refinement of the more powerful receivers but a fair bit smaller which is important to me for my desk.


----------



## mr.khali

meewoo said:


> Haha, Welcome back mr. Khali!! It's always nice to see earlier posters come back!!
> 
> You missed one L-480 in 2011, and in 2013 you got L-450. What a story!! I got L-480 and T-450 combo this year too.:wink_face:
> 
> When you compare those 2 sub 50 wpc pieces, please choose some good records. I think L-450 will excel at good records, especially with sound-stage depth. I'm waiting for your impression!!



Hey Maewoo!! I have always loved the look of these series of Luxmans. I have already noticed the L 450's strength in presentation of live music. She doesn't have the powerful grunt of the HK but her depth in sound and a sweet extended treble is intoxicating to listen to. To be continued.....


----------



## harrinj

Thinking about getting a Sansui QRX-5500A Quad receiver on craigslist. it looks pretty damn cool!


----------



## pixelsphotopro

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






harrinj said:


> I have a mint 2220B while very pretty, I never cared too much for the sound.


 
  
  


lugbug1 said:


> I've got a 2220, (no B) and its my least favorite amp... I only use headphones though. It's defo loud enough, but the sound is lifeless compared to my later 70's Marantz 2216b. It has too much hiss as well, even after I soaked it with Deoxit.
> 
> It looks nice however


 
  
  


destroysall said:


> I've experienced the same issue myself via the Phono input and Aux input.


 
  





> Thank you all for your inputs. I will look for another vintage receiver.


----------



## harrinj

pixelsphotopro said:


>


 
  
 It's an ok receiver, I do agree with that one guy that it's very lifeless. It DOES look nice though! Mine sounded better with speakers though... Mine also has no hiss what so ever and was new in the box.

 I'd get it if I didn't have one.


----------



## harrinj

mr.khali said:


> Hello gentlemen.  Haven't been on this thread since early on because I sold my Pioneer SX980 and Sansui 8080 and settled on a Harman Kardon 730 and she has kept me happy until now for my desktop setup.  I walked into a pawn shop tonight and found a Luxman L-450 and matching tuner for a reasonable price so I grabbed them.  It will be a fun weekend comparing them.  My new love is so beautiful on the outside.  We shall see if her beauty is only skin deep.  Here is a grainy phone pic.


 
  
 HK 730 <3 I saw one a few years ago at a local junk store for $50, only missing two knobs. We decided to get it and when we went back it was gone... Whatayaknow :/ lol


----------



## harrinj

i just gotta say that these HiFiMan HE-500's are WONDERFUL. I wish I was home and could plug them into my Kenwood KA-7100 but they sound damn good out of my Nuforce UDH-100 but the volume needs to be turned all the way up on the UDH-100. 

 I have NEVER heard Shine on You crazy Diamond this clear and pristine. the SACD 5.1 version converted into 24/192 stereo WAV. 

 Holy Crap and there is BASS!


----------



## LugBug1

Great stuff harrinj. They are a worthy summit-fi headphone and a great all rounder too. Wait till you give them some 1970's power, I'm sure you'll be even more impressed!


----------



## Destroysall

My update on the Marantz 2220B receiver:
  
 I found the opportunity to setup the Marantz with my loudspeakers. The built-in phono preamp just isn't doing it for me as much as I'd like it to. The sound is really warm and full. I would have preferred more detail and just a tad more highs. I did utilize the treble EQ knob for this situation, and sound become much more enjoyable to my ears.
  
 Next I plugged in my Playstation One (dedicated CDP) via the auxiliary input, the sound was surprisingly pleasant. My first test with the auxiliary input was with using Enigma's MCMXC a.D., and the soundstage was wide and the sound very warm and detailed. My next and one I am still currently just amazed at is with an old Glenn Miller record. The recordings in this CD aren't the best or even good by any means whatsoever. However, this receiver managed to filter out all the tape static and with a EQ treble and mid boost, the sound was really remarkable.
  
 While I have yet to demo this receivers more, I can truthfully testify that this receiver indeed has a standing when paired with loudspeakers. Especially when using the auxiliary input and toying with the EQ knobs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 2220B I once had sounded great with Advents.


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Great stuff harrinj. They are a worthy summit-fi headphone and a great all rounder too. Wait till you give them some 1970's power, I'm sure you'll be even more impressed!


 
  
 Yes! because these definitely need more power than the like 500mW the UDH-100 HP amp delivers. 

 a Sansui QRX-5500A Quad receiver popped back up on craigslist that I have been wanting to get for a long time.


 To be honest, I kinda forgot that bass existed...  I'm so used to K702 and DT990/600.


----------



## harrinj

destroysall said:


> My update on the Marantz 2220B receiver:
> 
> I found the opportunity to setup the Marantz with my loudspeakers. The built-in phono preamp just isn't doing it for me as much as I'd like it to. The sound is really warm and full. I would have preferred more detail and just a tad more highs. I did utilize the treble EQ knob for this situation, and sound become much more enjoyable to my ears.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My 2220B sounded much better with speakers than it did with headphones.


----------



## kstuart

> My 2220B sounded much better with speakers than it did with headphones.


 
 At 20 watts per channel, they have to be efficient speakers.


----------



## Trav

Sad to say my Sony STR 6055 was DOA. The seller, Dane Mentzer of Las Vegas; is refusing a refund. I even found a broken RCA plug inside the case. This guy is also a member on AK of the same name so if you are on Bartertown stay clear of ANY of his listings. Live and learn.


----------



## harrinj

kstuart said:


> At 20 watts per channel, they have to be efficient speakers.




My HK 430 Is 25WPC and drives KEF 103/4 wonderfully even though they are 4ohms. My 2220B sounds real lifeless with K702 and DT990/600 but sounded much better with B&O S45. It's my least favorite out of my vintage gear but it still has it's place. The second least favorite is my Kenwood KR-7400.


----------



## harrinj

Go





trav said:


> Sad to say my Sony STR 6055 was DOA. The seller, Dane Mentzer of Las Vegas; is refusing a refund. I even found a broken RCA plug inside the case. This guy is also a member on AK of the same name so if you are on Bartertown stay clear of ANY of his listings. Live and learn.




Thanks for the heads up! I've had bad luck with eBay myself. A seller named 46dredger I was trying to buy AKG K180 1969 headphones and the fella made a $100 shill bid on an obvious fake account. Coincidently I accendtly bid $102.50 instead of $12.50 because of awful sprint not going through at the last seconds. I won them but didn't pay for em and mister 46dredger was a real weirdo about it. He even ad. Tied to the shill bid. It should have gone to the fake account but it didn't so that's more proof it was a shill bid!


----------



## Trav

harrinj said:


> Go
> Thanks for the heads up! I've had bad luck with eBay myself. A seller named 46dredger I was trying to buy AKG K180 1969 headphones and the fella made a $100 shill bid on an obvious fake account. Coincidently I accendtly bid $102.50 instead of $12.50 because of awful sprint not going through at the last seconds. I won them but didn't pay for em and mister 46dredger was a real weirdo about it. He even ad. Tied to the shill bid. It should have gone to the fake account but it didn't so that's more proof it was a shill bid!


This wasn't EB, I found the seller using ONECRAIG, never again .


----------



## harrinj

A





trav said:


> This wasn't EB, I found the seller using ONECRAIG, never again .




Ahh sorry lol.


----------



## Silent One

trav said:


> Sad to say my Sony STR 6055 was DOA. The seller, Dane Mentzer of Las Vegas; is refusing a refund. I even found a broken RCA plug inside the case. This guy is also a member on AK of the same name so if you are on Bartertown stay clear of ANY of his listings. Live and learn.


 
  
 I hate hearing about one of our own having this experience; standing with you in spirit.


----------



## LugBug1

trav said:


> Sad to say my Sony STR 6055 was DOA. The seller, Dane Mentzer of Las Vegas; is refusing a refund. I even found a broken RCA plug inside the case. This guy is also a member on AK of the same name so if you are on Bartertown stay clear of ANY of his listings. Live and learn.


 
  
 That sucks buddy.


----------



## appbagha

that right,Well, moodyrn, like you, I am a big fan of the Fisher KX100 ,thank you


----------



## PhoenixG

trav said:


> Sad to say my Sony STR 6055 was DOA. The seller, Dane Mentzer of Las Vegas; is refusing a refund. I even found a broken RCA plug inside the case. This guy is also a member on AK of the same name so if you are on Bartertown stay clear of ANY of his listings. Live and learn.


 
 Sorry bud. It might be worth trying to fix. That line used very nice quality discrete components that might be replacable.


----------



## Trav

I'm for sure gonna have it looked at, I've been wanting this early ES line stuff for awhile. My concern being into in parts and labor for more than I have in it.


----------



## lithium1085

Hi guys,
  
 I was wondering if you anyone had any good suggestions for vintage tube based amplifiers/receivers?


----------



## Trav

lithium1085 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I was wondering if you anyone had any good suggestions for vintage tube based amplifiers/receivers?


Fisher 500C


----------



## harrinj

I was looking forward to getting a Sansui QRX-5500A on Craigslist near me but the fella is being a prick. Why do we let these awesome receivers fall into people's hands who use eBay as a reference for pricing and won't go down from that price? Lol


----------



## harrinj

Hey, do any vintage receivers have balanced ports for ortho's?


----------



## jasonb

I don't think so, but with balanced headphones I'm pretty sure you can use the speaker taps.
  
 Quote:


harrinj said:


> Hey, do any vintage receivers have balanced ports for ortho's?


----------



## kstuart

lithium1085 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I was wondering if you anyone had any good suggestions for vintage tube based amplifiers/receivers?


 
 I don't think there are any bad ones - all the poor designs were junked long ago, only the good ones have been kept running.
  
 You should be aware that vintage tube equipment costs a lot more time and money than vintage solid state.  You will want to "roll" tubes to see what sounds best, and the gear is so old that it probably needs a lot of new components (unless you have paid a mint for a restored one).
  
 I have a recent amp with only one tube, a popular easily found model, and I have spent more money on tubes than the amp cost originally...


----------



## captouch

lithium1085 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I was wondering if you anyone had any good suggestions for vintage tube based amplifiers/receivers?




What's your budget and are you willing/able to do some restoration or do you need something ready to go?


----------



## lithium1085

Thanks for the help guys.


trav said:


> Fisher 500C


 
 I have heard about the fisher 500C, what do you think will be a just price to pay for a decent one?


captouch said:


> What's your budget and are you willing/able to do some restoration or do you need something ready to go?


 
 I can't really do much restoration as my DIY skills are sorely lacking. My budget will be be till around 300-400$. 
 Also, has anyone heard any vintage Luxman tube amplifiers?


----------



## captouch

lithium1085 said:


> I have heard about the fisher 500C, what do you think will be a just price to pay for a decent one?
> I can't really do much restoration as my DIY skills are sorely lacking. My budget will be be till around 300-400$.
> Also, has anyone heard any vintage Luxman tube amplifiers?


 
  
 The cheapest I've seen for a restored 500C is about $500, but I actually think that was quite a good price and generally they'll go higher - sometimes much higher.
  
 Getting an unrestored unit and paying to have it restored will probably run you $200-300 from a shop.  So non-trivial, though you may find a local enthusiast who'd be willing to do it for less.
  
 Keep your eyes open on CL.  I was able to get a 15W tube amp that had been restored, but developed a bad volume pot, for quite cheap.  So I was able to get a new volume pot off eBay and I was able to get up and running well within your budget.  But a lot of that is about timing.
  
 You may want to consider paying $25 and joining as a member on Audiokarma.  You can post a WTB on Bartertown describing your budget, goal, location (in case someone has something close by and you can inspect and avoid shipping fees), etc and you'd be surprised what kind of offers get thrown your way, since many AK'ers have big collections and don't mind letting something go to a fellow enthusiast.


----------



## kstuart

In the heyday of the Solid State Stereo, plenty of broken and worn out vacuum tube equipment was thrown out in the landfill.
  
 So, what is left today, fetches a premium price.  If your lucky, you might find something at a garage sale, or thrift shop - but the quantity of items still out there is very small.
  
 Otherwise, my advice is that the total cost - buying, fixing and maintaining - is going to be more than your budget.   Unless you want to make a hobby out of tube amps, or else you have more money than you mentioned, then you should either consider vintage solid state (like Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, Luxman), or else modern tube amps (usually made in China, of course) - Jolida is frequently mentioned, but is just outside of your budget at $600, and perhaps Qinpu at more like $300.


----------



## lithium1085

kstuart said:


> In the heyday of the Solid State Stereo, plenty of broken and worn out vacuum tube equipment was thrown out in the landfill.
> 
> So, what is left today, fetches a premium price.  If your lucky, you might find something at a garage sale, or thrift shop - but the quantity of items still out there is very small.
> 
> Otherwise, my advice is that the total cost - buying, fixing and maintaining - is going to be more than your budget.   Unless you want to make a hobby out of tube amps, or else you have more money than you mentioned, then you should either consider vintage solid state (like Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood, Luxman), or else modern tube amps (usually made in China, of course) - Jolida is frequently mentioned, but is just outside of your budget at $600, and perhaps Qinpu at more like $300.


 
  
 I am also coming to the conclusion that maybe tubed equipment doesn't fit my budget....Maybe a warm luxman will be ideal. Thanks for your advice


captouch said:


> The cheapest I've seen for a restored 500C is about $500, but I actually think that was quite a good price and generally they'll go higher - sometimes much higher.
> 
> Getting an unrestored unit and paying to have it restored will probably run you $200-300 from a shop.  So non-trivial, though you may find a local enthusiast who'd be willing to do it for less.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the idea of joining Audiokarma......Definitely seems to be worth it. I don't think I am going to join right away but probably some time soon.


----------



## captouch

lithium1085 said:


> I am also coming to the conclusion that maybe tubed equipment doesn't fit my budget....Maybe a warm luxman will be ideal. Thanks for your advice
> 
> Thanks for the idea of joining Audiokarma......Definitely seems to be worth it. I don't think I am going to join right away but probably some time soon.




It IS possible to get a tube unit in your budget, just not easy. Getting a restored (at least recapped) piece for your budget is the tricky part, but that really applies to any vintage gear, whether solid state or tubed. Because of the # of hours it takes to restore/recap, they generally go for quite a bit more, especially if it's just taken place because the cost (if done by a shop) or effort (if DIY by selling party) is still fresh in the mind of the selling party. 

But if the restoration happened a few years ago or was done by an owner previous to the current selling party, a lot of that price premium may have dissipated. Or you may find a unit that was previously restored/recapped, but developed another problem since (like the unit I got). Assuming the workmanship of the previous work was good, that can actually be a good situation since the price should reflect that it's not fully operational, yet it may be relatively minor to fix or have fixed.

Just keep in mind that any original condition vintage gear is subject to having issues that eventually need to be addressed. Also, if you have the will/desire to learn, you'd be surprised what you can learn in a relatively brief period and the willingness of fellow enthusiasts to help you along with any problems or restoration efforts.


----------



## DefQon

Great deal me thinks, shame it will cost me $300 big ones to get it shipped. 
  
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Sansui-AU999-Integrated-Amp-w-T-9-Quartz-Tuner-SUPER-CLEAN-/390667504721?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5af5990c51&_uhb=1


----------



## Oregonian

captouch said:


> It IS possible to get a tube unit in your budget, just not easy. Getting a restored (at least recapped) piece for your budget is the tricky part, but that really applies to any vintage gear, whether solid state or tubed. Because of the # of hours it takes to restore/recap, they generally go for quite a bit more, especially if it's just taken place because the cost (if done by a shop) or effort (if DIY by selling party) is still fresh in the mind of the selling party.
> 
> But if the restoration happened a few years ago or was done by an owner previous to the current selling party, a lot of that price premium may have dissipated. Or you may find a unit that was previously restored/recapped, but developed another problem since (like the unit I got). Assuming the workmanship of the previous work was good, that can actually be a good situation since the price should reflect that it's not fully operational, yet it may be relatively minor to fix or have fixed.
> 
> Just keep in mind that any original condition vintage gear is subject to having issues that eventually need to be addressed. Also, if you have the will/desire to learn, you'd be surprised what you can learn in a relatively brief period and the willingness of fellow enthusiasts to help you along with any problems or restoration efforts.




I've read threads on Audiokarma of guys literally rebuilding amp boards by having one of the tech guys help them along. Truly amazing how helpful guys are and willing to share their knowledge.


----------



## kstuart

I think that the Executive Summary is:
  
 Vintage Tube Amps make great hobbies, and
  
 Vintage Solid State Amps make great inexpensive and powerful headphone amps.


----------



## Destroysall

trav said:


> Fisher 500C


 
 Would the auction website be a good place to get one? I've seen some pics and see the talks about this lineup over at Audiokarma and am quite interested myself..


----------



## captouch

destroysall said:


> Would the auction website be a good place to get one? I've seen some pics and see the talks about this lineup over at Audiokarma and am quite interested myself..


 
  
 I've gotten vintage (non-tube) stuff of eBay, as well as tubes.  The sellers are less consistent with regards to packing well, and I've had a couple of pieces damaged in transit, though nothing catastrophic.  But actually, overall, my experience has been pretty positive, but I've bought only a handful of vintage gear there.  I've bought a tube pre off Audiogon, which turned out well, but Audiogon tends to be priced closer to market and people there know the value of their stuff.
  
 Audiokarma, Bartertown members forum specifically, in my experience, is better than eBay because people are generally very upfront about what they did or didn't do, will point out cosmetic and operational issues, and generally pack very well, because they've been on the other side and not wanted to have their stuff damaged.  People there often have excess gear as well and will sometimes let it go for very good prices, and there's likely some members close to you that may happen to have something you're looking for.
  
 There's also CL - I've bought both SS and tube vintage stuff there as well.
  
 So use all sources - all can work well, but some just need more caution and carry more risk.


----------



## harrinj

I found a Realistic I think it was a STA-78 but He wanted $120 for it and I thought that was a bit asinine. I don't care for realistic anyways but it looked neat...


----------



## harrinj

lithium1085 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I was wondering if you anyone had any good suggestions for vintage tube based amplifiers/receivers?


 
  
 There is a lot of old McIntosh Tube stuff at Hot Poop Record Store in Walla Walla, WA. unfortunately it's an upscale hipster (rich kid's college area) and records are up to $200 so I am sure the price for one of the McIntosh's are absolutely nuts.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I found a Realistic I think it was a STA-78 but He wanted $120 for it and I thought that was a bit asinine. I don't care for realistic anyways but it looked neat...




I got a STA-64B along with speakers, a tape deck and turntable a while back and I'll tell you, the headphone out on that is powerful and sounds amazing. It's my work office rig and was well worth the $20.......... For everything.


----------



## LugBug1

Look what's just popped up on fleabay europe.
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANSUI-9090-TOP-END-STEREO-RECEIVER-AMPLIFIER-/261295642149?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item3cd66f1625
  
 These very _very_ rarely come up for grabs here and in such good condition.... If only.


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> Look what's just popped up on fleabay europe.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SANSUI-9090-TOP-END-STEREO-RECEIVER-AMPLIFIER-/261295642149?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item3cd66f1625
> 
> These very _very_ rarely come up for grabs here and in such good condition.... If only.


 
  
 They only ship in Europe!


----------



## LugBug1

Heres a couple of pics of my set ups as they stand at the mo..
  
 Downstairs

  

(the equalizer is just for show.... I have no need to use it)
  
 And upstairs

  
  
 Got a NAD 3020i coming... Not the nicest amp to look at but its an amp that I have to try, I'll post some impressions.. If it impressess me 
  
  
 Have a great weekend everyone!


----------



## kstuart

lugbug1 said:


> Heres a couple of pics of my set ups as they stand at the mo..


 
 Just out of curiosity, how many of those are recapped ?


----------



## LugBug1

kstuart said:


> Just out of curiosity, how many of those are recapped ?


 
  
 None. None of them need it imo. If it sounds good, don't fix it  These are the faves of my collection so far, I've had a few that did need recapping though... And one that was recapped- that incidentally sounded worse than all those above. Recapping won't make a mediocre amp sound great. Also its only worth getting it done if you have a legend of a high-ender that you are going to take to the grave, or make an investment out of. Or you can do it yourself and enjoy the diy.


----------



## ssrock64

So...it's time for an update on my situation with my broken SX-780.
  
 I finally got around to making the forty-minute trip to M&S Music in Mobile yesterday, the sole local shop known for servicing vintage receivers, only to be told when I get there that it's literally their last day open and that they're closing forever. Now, my only choices are to bring it back to the same guy who told me my Dynaco was a total loss when it had the same problem, or to use the broken Pioneer as partial credit towards a new receiver in a trade.
  
 How much would the SX-780 potentially be worth to somebody hoping to start a complete interior restoration, given that the exterior is nearly flawless?


----------



## LugBug1

@ssrock64, If the condition is good then you may get $50? Unfortunately spares n repairs rarely sell for high amounts unless they are the very high end models or rarities. 
  
  
  
 Just got my NAD 3020i today, no pics because they are very dull to look at. I'm loving the sound though. Warm yet crisp, very 70's Sansui like. I like that it has a low level button so I can have freedom with the volume. It has the lowest noise floor yet of my old amps. In fact its as black as any decent hp amp. 
  
 The "i" model was the last manufactured 3020 in the line up that started approx 79/80. I'd highly recommend anyone giving one a go, such a warm yet rich and detailed sound from this no thrills amp.


----------



## ssrock64

lugbug1 said:


> Just got my NAD 3020i today, no pics because they are very dull to look at. I'm loving the sound though.


 
 I actually like the clean black looks of the unit, but to each his own.
  
 I'd love to find something vintage with such a dark background as you describe; one of my pet peeves with any older gear or lower-end DACs and amps is static hiss, even if it's a very small amount.


----------



## LugBug1

ssrock64 said:


> I actually like the clean black looks of the unit, but to each his own.
> 
> I'd love to find something vintage with such a dark background as you describe; one of my pet peeves with any older gear or lower-end DACs and amps is static hiss, even if it's a very small amount.


 
  
 Yeah its something that bugs me as well. I found in general that later models tend to sound quieter. Say late 70's early 80's. Don't know if this has just been coincidence or if there is something in it. Maybe more effort was put into the hp outs as the years went by as headphones changed from being only 8 ohms same as speakers to higher ohm's.
  
 My two quietest amps have been after 1980. Problem is, my best sounding amps are all from the 70's...
  
 Had more time with my NAD 3020i tonight and I'd highly recommend it as a headphone amp. It has a very 70's sound (big bass, rich and smooth) and they were produced right up until the 90's. So all the parts inside have a good chance of still being very good.  I can see why these were one of the greatest amps ever made. Paid £62 (approx $80) Bargain!


----------



## ssrock64

I found a Marantz 2015 locally for $125 that had a service recently. Is it worth that?


----------



## LugBug1

ssrock64 said:


> I found a Marantz 2015 locally for $125 that had a service recently. Is it worth that?


 
  
 I'd say thats a fair price. If the condition is good, thats a classic Marantz. If possible try it before buying


----------



## Silent One

Baby Sinister got problems. The first such suffering of any kind. Was recently serviced - all pots, nooks, crannies cleaned and lubed.  I'm dealing with a channel imbalance at the volume control.
  
 Since Friday, when I initially turn on the diminutive receiver (Sansui G-22000), the left channel is absent. Turning the volume knob well past normal listening levels returns the sound in the left channel. The first 20 minutes can be premature - when I turn it back down, sometimes the sound will go again. Or everything is fine until a track ends with decreasing volume. Then the new track starts with missing sound again.
  
 I've been lucky that as I approach 30 minutes listening, all seems well, with no further incidents. Not sure what to make of it. And YES, the HE-6 is off my head when I need to blast the volume to return sound in the missing channel. Usually only takes 1-1.5 seconds.
  
 I swapped in the HD650 to confirm it's the receiver and not the HE-6. It's the _former..._


----------



## DefQon

Won an auction on a small Kenwood KA 2000A.
  
 Dimensions: 260 x 105 x 237mm
  

 Actual pic from seller.
  
 I'am sucker for amps that resemble my vintage Stax amps, due to the small form factor I plan to take it with as a portable amp while I commute through the CBD on public transport.


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> :mad:  Baby Sinister got problems. The first such suffering of any kind. Was recently serviced - all pots, nooks, crannies cleaned and lubed.  I'm dealing with a channel imbalance at the volume control.
> 
> Since Friday, when I initially turn on the diminutive receiver (Sansui G-22000), the left channel is absent. Turning the volume knob well past normal listening levels returns the sound in the left channel. The first 20 minutes can be premature - when I turn it back down, sometimes the sound will go again. Or everything is fine until a track ends with decreasing volume. Then the new track starts with missing sound again.
> 
> ...




Sorry to hear this bud. I just finally solved my Spec 2 amp channel scratchiness issue after two months! Mine ended up being cold solder joint issues. Guy re soldered the entire amp board and problem gone. That's the price of owning these old pieces........they're old.


----------



## parbaked

defqon said:


> Won an auction on a small Kenwood KA 2000A.
> 
> Dimensions: 260 x 105 x 237mm
> 
> due to the small form factor I plan to take it with as a portable amp while I commute through the CBD on public transport.


 
 Good thinking. I hope you get a seat....


----------



## monoethylene

Another headamp..


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> Sorry to hear this bud. I just finally solved my Spec 2 amp channel scratchiness issue after two months! Mine ended up being cold solder joint issues. Guy re soldered the entire amp board and problem gone. *That's the price of owning these old pieces........they're old.*


 
  





 Yeah......... noted. Her sound. Her prestige. She's definitely worth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




taking in!


----------



## ssrock64

Good news! I contacted M&S music and got the contact info of their repair person, so there is still hope yet for my SX-780. Unfortunately, the costs are probably going to slice into my timetable for buying an Alpha Dog (I strictly budget myself for audio each month).


----------



## kstuart

ssrock64 said:


> Good news! I contacted M&S music and got the contact info of their repair person, so there is still hope yet for my SX-780. Unfortunately, the costs are probably going to slice into my timetable for buying an Alpha Dog (I strictly budget myself for audio each month).


 
 Don't worry - there is currently a six week backlog, so ordering now won't get you them much sooner than ordering later.


----------



## Skylab

Hey Silent One - I know you recently had your G22000 cleaned and lubed, but in any case, did you try exercising ALL (and I do mean all) of the buttons, knobs, and switches repeatedly like 10-20 times to see if that resolves the issue? There is almost no amount of cleaning old controls which will eliminate the stray bit of gunk dislodging and making something intermittent, and your problem does present as one that could be caused by that...


----------



## emo72

defqon said:


> Won an auction on a small Kenwood KA 2000A.
> 
> Dimensions: 260 x 105 x 237mm
> 
> ...


 
  
 i grew up with that amp in the 80s. it weighs a ton though. i dont think it would be suitable for portability! well done on getting it though.


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Hey Silent One - I know you recently had your G22000 cleaned and lubed, but in any case, did you try exercising ALL (and I do mean all) of the buttons, knobs, and switches repeatedly like 10-20 times to see if that resolves the issue? There is almost no amount of cleaning old controls which will eliminate the stray bit of gunk dislodging and making something intermittent, and your problem does present as one that could be caused by that...


 
  





 Don't make me say it. But, maybe all the people that come in contact with the receiver and fondle-flick-turn-press every knob she's got, might 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 be on to something. Will give it a go after dinner...
  
  
  
*Update: *
  
 Went round-n-round the volume knob 48 times. The AUX selector 36; Balance knob 36. No changes to report. Looking back, it has just occurred to me that the past few months, I have been on tour slingin' the Sansui & Pioneer onto luggage carts and bumpity bump through hotel parking lots. Frequently, as I changed towns and suites.
  
 Lack of proper foam/iso supplies could have jarred something loose. My receivers were no longer boxed but naked.


----------



## fjosh

Silent one try this on all contacts before paying for repair
  
http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-Laboratories-G5S-6-DeoxIT-Gold/dp/B007S6ZZOA


----------



## Silent One

fjosh said:


> Silent one try this on all contacts before paying for repair
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-Laboratories-G5S-6-DeoxIT-Gold/dp/B007S6ZZOA


 
  
 Though, the shop DeoxIT'd, can't hurt to try. I am lacking tools and the space to work on it. We'll see...


----------



## DefQon

I got a joke for you guys:
  
 What pants does Mario wear ?


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Though, the shop DeoxIT'd, can't hurt to try. I am lacking tools and the space to work on it. We'll see...


 
  
 Sorry to hear your Vintage misbehavin'. 
  
 I can sympathize with your hauling of your equipment from hotel to hotel. I do it with my recording gear - from hall to church to... wherever is some interesting sound waiting to be captured on recording. And yes, at (n+1) times your equipment no longer is padded in a bag, protected with styrofoam, boxed, double boxed - but naked or protected with a thin towel or similar to prevent gross scratching only. You can not pamper working equipment under real world conditions and time schedules. No one is going to pay security etc of say a recording hall just to wait for me to double wrap each and every component...
  
 On most frequently used equipment, I resolder each and every solder joint approx every 2 years. 
 Especially prone to failure are solder joints of RCA females that are usually soldered directly to the printed circuit board. It lasts for n insertions/removals of RCA plug, at (n+1)st mating ...you get the picture.


----------



## Silent One

Yes, yes I do get the pix. I'm almost certain I jarred something. Not all is lost - it still plays once it settles in.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I was just thinking that this could be a cold solder joint that has been "jarred" into action.


----------



## Silent One

Oh my, when it's _right_, the Sansui has a beautiful sound.


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Yes, yes I do get the pix. I'm almost certain I jarred something. Not all is lost - it still plays once it settles in.


 
  
 Oh - how FAMILIAR.  My CD-R recorder has a very very narrow window of temperature where it works. 
 It must be some iffy contact in multilayer printed circuit board, did check everything else.
  
 On normal/hot days, it requires fan to keep it cold enough. On really hot days, it means I have to control the speed and loudness of the fan according to music just being recorded live. Slow/quiet during quiet music, full gas at loud moments. Otherwise, microphones do pick fan in the recording.
  
 On really really cold days, in a church with georgeos acoustics but cold enough all musicians enjoy sunbathing during the pauses in the hottest of July, it would simply not power up. A trip to the priest fetched me a hair drier - quick burst of heat and we were back in business.
  
 I am glad I could retire CD some 4 years ago, but it took me almost 4 years to get DSD recorders sonically on par with my highly modified CD-R recorder. First DSD recordings made with stock Korg units received lukewarm acceptance from the singers who were "spoiled" by the sound of the CD-R. If it requires fan or hair drier - so be it.
  
 All that really matters in the end is  that it delivers sonically.


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  






 When I nearly bought one of the remaining stock of Korg MR2000, I remember your trip down DSD Lane. And the mods you incorporated. But you were unable to _share._ And I didn't want a pedestrian DSD Player, so I let it go.
  
 Now looking at the Tascam DA-3000.




  
  
 A new digital recorder paired with a vintage receiver? _What a contrast. _


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> When I nearly bought one of the remaining stock of Korg MR2000, I remember your trip down DSD Lane. And the mods you incorporated. But you were unable to _share._ And I didn't want a pedestrian DSD Player, so I let it go.
> 
> Now looking at the Tascam DA-3000.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I guess I would call ANY currently available recorder , be it DSD or otherwise, pedestrian. Korg MR1/1000/2000S share exactly the same bottlenecks.
 They require wizzardry beyond any normal level and can only be kludged into submission in order to sound right. It really is a lunatic fringe mod most would say it can not be done. As always - analog sections. _Sharing _this particular mod would in more than 90% of cases result in malfunction if not downright terminal destruction of the recorder.
  
 I have yet to see innards of Tascam DA-3000, but its 1U height (same as MR2000S) leaves very little hope it can be put right. There is a mild chance that IC complement Tascam uses is better than Korg's, at least based on pics of UD-501DSD DAC innards in the thread here on head-fi. But recorder 
 (  ADC & DAC ) is a much more complicated machine than a "simple"  DAC and bean counters are most prone to striking at analog sections during their cost cutting procedure.
  
 I see no contrast in pairing a vintage receicer and new digital recorder. Both are supposed to aim at quality.


----------



## harrinj

Awwww... There is a Marantz 2440 near me on Craigslist for $150. can't afford it dangit. oh well... I think my original mint condition translucent blue US The Division Bell was worth it for this month... 

 I can't wait to pick up my Marantz 4400 tomorrow from Audio Specialties hook my Music-hall MMF-5.1 and B&O S60's to it and listen to it! I will probably only play it once or twice since I already have a Brazilian one that's in average shape. TDB was not opened still in shrink wrap but they weren't shrink wrapped at the factory I don't think but its completely mint inside never opened and I looked all over online to make sure it's real and everything matches the official ones! 

 Now I need to find out some way to afford Roger Waters Amused to Death on vinyl and SACD this month by the 15th!!!


----------



## petemac110

monoethylene said:


> Another headamp..




Oooooh, AU-999! Nicely done! A cracking amp once restored and enhanced.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes very, very nice integrated. One of the totl integrates that flies under radar here. It was the precurser to the 9500(which i picked up a few weeks ago). Congrats on the find.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> Yes very, very nice integrated. One of the totl integrates that flies under radar here. It was the precurser to *the 9500(which i picked up a few weeks ago*). Congrats on the find.


 
 *cough* pics please


----------



## moodyrn

lol, honestly I wasn't going to say anything until I got past the "new toy" phase because this thing literally sounds too good to be true. So I've been trying to convince myself it doesn't really sound this good. Whenever I buy something, I always do it knowing that I don't have room for a new addition and whatever comes in last(sonically speaking) will hit the door. Sometimes it ended up being the very piece I just bought. But this time it ended up being my sx1280.


----------



## moodyrn

Will post pics later today.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice one. I think that's probably my dream amp you've just there... If I ever splash out on a high ender it will be a Sansui totl integrate.


----------



## Silent One

I love it when this thread yields pix just in time for shopping over the weekend for more iron.


----------



## moodyrn

One interesting note is the 9500 was the last amp designed by sansui's founder Kosaku Kikuchi. And it was consider his last crown jewel. The folks over at audiokarma rave about it for its design and build quality and it said there's never been an amp with that level of enginurity either before or after the the 9500 was born. 

It's been high on my radar but very few have come through eBay in excellent condition, and I refuse to pay a few hundred for a beat up amp. So one in great condition came up in my area a few weeks ago. I'm the third owner, the previous owner owned it since the late 70s and claimed it's been in storage for the last 16 years. After blowing the dust off, the insides looks immaculate. And the build quality truly is second to none. I was never really a fan of the outward appearance, but I will say it's growing on me.


----------



## Silent One

Team Sansui


----------



## LugBug1

Team Sansui indeed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I beg to differ about the appearance though. I absolutely love how the 9500 looks. No other amps look like the classic Sansui's. They're in a class of their own. I love how my lowly au-505 looks. 
  

  
 Here it is with my recently acquired hd600's. A great hp for vintage gear.


----------



## moodyrn

I did take some before and after pics of the internals with my iPhone. I can post some external pics when I get home.


----------



## Silent One

Holiday candy couldn't hold a sweet tooth next to this! _Drive safe, moodyrn..._


----------



## claybum

Looks nice moodryn!!! I've never heard vintage Sansui. I'll have to keep an eye out for one of these.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice clean up job! 
  
 Where's Matt these days? He appreciates a nice clean up job


----------



## Silent One

Likely on moody's porch by 4:15...


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks guys, another few interesting facts are....it's rated at only 75wpc at from 20-20,000hz at .05% thd. But it weighs slightly more than my 9090db and 2325 at just over 51lbs. Both of those receivers are conservatively rated at 125wpc. It's at least as powerful as those to receivers. And keep in mind 9090db and 2325 have the added bulk and weight of housing a tuner well. For reference, an au11000 I use to own(110wpc) only weighs 42lbs and the au-717 weighs in at 39lbs.  I don't know what the true wattage for this amp is, but I'm quiet positive it's well over 100wpc given the speakers I've tried it on and also in comparison to the drive capabilities of my other amps/receivers.


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> Likely on moody's porch by 4:15...


 
  
 Lol, just make sure you don't forget to bring along the "G". That's a piece of gear so serious that can only be signified by one letter


----------



## LugBug1

He'll be joining me then! I've been camping outside since last night, when word got out that Moods had bought another High ender.


----------



## Silent One

Good thing there's been no misunderstanding between us and law enforcement officials. He got great neighbors!


----------



## LugBug1

haha Amen to that! Whilst your there S one, just throw another fence panel on the fire... He'll not mind   He'll be home soon..


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> haha Amen to that! Whilst your there S one, just throw another fence panel on the fire... He'll not mind   He'll be home soon..


 
  
 I've been strongly considering _dragging_ - yes, that's a good description of action here - my G-22000 out to a SoCal head-fi meet. For me, it would be more about sharing, as opposed to what I think of my own gears.
  
 I say sharing, because there are some head-fiers who've not yet heard cans leashed up to a competent vintage integrated amp/receiver thru speaker taps. And many have flat-out not seen a G-33000/22000 in the wild. Period.
  
 It'll be my humble head-fi contribution with a nod to the wonderful members here in this thread. I perused eBay on occasion in moons past for gear. But I ain't *NEVER* logged-on to Craig's List before reading this thread.
  
_D**n you "Calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners" you! _


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> I've been strongly considering _dragging_ - yes, that's a good description of action here - my G-22000 out to a SoCal head-fi meet. For me, it would be more about sharing, as opposed to what I think of my own gears.
> 
> I say sharing, because there are some head-fiers who've not yet heard cans leashed up to a competent vintage integrated amp/receiver thru speaker taps. And many have flat-out not seen a G-33000/22000 in the wild. Period.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup he has a lot to answer for 
  
 I think the whole vintage thing will always be either a quick 'fling' with some folks... Or a long term relationship. But I don't think it will ever take over or reach any kind of popularity compared to the newer more advanced technology on head-fi. It's a specialist hobby at the end of the day. (plus its our little secret  
  
 However, I still stand (and the fact that I've not looked at another hp amp since I got into vintage) that any of my better amps would wipe the floor of any hp amp under a grand. And It would be nice to witness peeps reaction at a meet for sure! 
  



 to my fave thread!


----------



## Silent One

Vive millésime


----------



## Oregonian

Amen to the comment about being a favorite thread. In the past six months I went from oblivious about vintage to owning six receivers/integrateds and the Spec rack setup. I am hooked and will never even look at another non-vintage amp. I'll be faithful to silver.....

I pity the masses who have never felt what we do listening to a favorite track on vintage.


----------



## LugBug1

Sorry Moody, you made me do it.
  
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (have to go to bed soon... Damn uk time huh, I'll see the pics in the morning


----------



## Silent One

Me? I'm simply gonna order _"Take-Out."_


----------



## mr.khali

moodyrn said:


> lol, honestly I wasn't going to say anything until I got past the "new toy" phase because this thing literally sounds too good to be true. So I've been trying to convince myself it doesn't really sound this good. Whenever I buy something, I always do it knowing that I don't have room for a new addition and whatever comes in last(sonically speaking) will hit the door. Sometimes it ended up being the very piece I just bought. But this time it ended up being my sx1280.


 
  
 That is high praise indeed!  I have never owned the SX1280 but had the SX980 for awhile and thought it sounded amazing!  Looking forward to hearing more of your impressions.  The Sansui 8500/9500 is the series I have been very curious about since there is little information about it compared to other Sansui amps.


----------



## moodyrn

That's the reason I didn't want to pay a few hundred for one in less than stellar condition. It seems the only place where it really gets talked is on ak. It's even hit or miss when it comes to ebay prices. It depends on who is watching it at the time because I've seen them go from as low as 300.00 all the way up to 1400(Aus buyer though but, still pad over 300.00 in shipping). I'll post detailed impressions later tonight along with a couple of external pics.


----------



## moodyrn

Also, don't want to sell the sx1280 short. Other than my completely rebuilt sansui, it's the best ss receiver I've listened to. It also beats a couple of really good vintage integrateds I've owned. So it's definitely a killer sounding receiver. I've been very fortunate to score some very good finds at great prices. But one thing is for sure, as different as all of the vintage gear I've owned sounds, most of them sounded incredible. I could have live long term with most of them.


----------



## moodyrn

I just remembered I never posted pics of the 500c after repairing the damage that occurred during shipment. As I said previously a couple of sliders broke off and some chunks of the bezel broke off the cabinet. While deciding which direction to go with securing a new one, I decided to attempt a repair on my old one to buy me some time. I really want one from mc cabinets, but their prices are a bit high. There's a couple of eBay sellers that build them, but I actually like the original one better and probably will hold out until a mint one comes available.

Before




Now the after.






This last picture is with the flash on to highlight the seams that were glued back together. Fortunately, the seams are not visible from the repairs done to the front of the bezel.


Lol the flash also highlight it's time for a little dusting. The blemishes in the faceplate in the before pics aren't scratches. The faceplate was pretty much scratch free.


----------



## moodyrn

And finally the au-9500...


----------



## Silent One

_Soooo v-e-r-y  s-e-x-y . . ._


----------



## moodyrn

Now for some impressions. If I could sum up the sound of the 9500 into one word it would be "musical". In my past research of the 9500, I noticed a lot of people would describe it as "tube like". That has always been a phrase I've frowned upon in the past because I've never heard a solid state amp sound like a tube amp, or anywhere close. Most engineers that's tried to pull that off mostly ended up with a warm, dark sounding solid state amp that wasn't representative of what a tube amp sounded like at all. So I assumed that most people merely meant that it sounded warm(which it does). It wasn't until I read a post of an owner going into depth about the sound characteristics and what he meant when he said it sounded like a tube amp.
  
 Ironically, he used his 500c as a reference in describing how the 9500 sound. He wrote, and of course I'm paraphrasing......The 9500 had the ability to portray images in an open space and the sound lifts off the speakers themselves. He added, the soundstage was truly holographic, and could easily hear how large the venue was the band was playing in. He said only his fisher and other high end tube amps had the ability to do this. The 9500 had the ability to sound smooth without smearing non of the details and without sacrificing transparency. 
  
 Now that I own both, I would have to agree. But the funny thing is, tonality wise, they sound totally different. The 9500 have all of these qualities, but it is warm sounding while the 500c is completely neutral. With the 9500, think marantz without the rolled off highs, lack of depth, and transparency. It's not as dark as the prototypical marantz, but they are similar tonal wise. The thing that really baffles me is, while not neutral, the voices and the instruments just sound real. I'm mean not colored, but the sense that you are there. It's very strange how it's able to pull this off, but it does. And consequently, it mates will with both my he-6 and w3000. My he-6 sounds great out of the 2325, but pretty much unlistenable with my w3000. 
  
 Now the negatives. It doesn't have the technicalities of neither my ka-907 or 500c. It also don't quiet have the technicalities of the sx1280 either. But it's not lacking in technicalities like the 2325 is either. It don't have the extension at both ends of my ka907, but the 907 isn't as musical as the 9500 either. The treble is just a tad bit subdued. The extension is there, but it's slightly soft up top. As a result, I can listen to it for hours without any fatigue, but sometimes I wish it was a tad bit more aggressive sounding. My biggest negative is the fact the -20db button have no effect on background hiss. The hiss is the same whether the -20db button is engaged or not. This is how my au-11000 was which is one of the main reasons I sold it. On my 9090db the hiss level is pretty high with my w3000, but  with the -20db button engaged, the background is completely black.
  
 The good thing is, the hiss level of the 9500 is barely audible on my w3000 with no music playing. So it's still usable with those. But on the other hand, the headphone out isn't as powerful as the 9090db headphone out. So it struggles a bit driving my he-6. It drives them well, just not as well as the 9090db. I don't even use the speaker taps on the 9090db for the he-6, but I do with the 9500 though. All in all, it's the most musical amp, I've ever listened to. While not the last word in extension, transparency, and detail retrieval(still very good in those aspects), it does a wonderful job of just making music sound great. So I don't even think about it's shortcomings when listening to it. I'm just transported into audio nirvana.


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> _Soooo v-e-r-y  s-e-x-y . . ._


 
  
 thanks


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> thanks


 
  
 Great summary! You got to the dirt unlike many a Friday nite writes! Where some seek comfort, additional thought-food-drink and... you simply got in there and got it done!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks for the kind words. Really appreciated!!


----------



## Silent One

You're most welcome. I'm so starving for music right now, if y'all were waiting on my summary, there'd be concerned about my absence.
  
_"Silent One! What kinda hokey operation are runnin' in that room?!!!" _


----------



## palmfish

Nice repair work on the cabinet. It looks really good!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks. I came really close to trashing it. But decided to see if I could at least make it look presentable just to have something to get me by temporarily.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> And finally the au-9500...


 
 Looks amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. It just oozes class! Enjoyed reading that thorough summary too. Shame about the bit hiss, I've been doing a bit of research on this recently, because sometimes no amount of cleaning that eradicate it.
  
 For anyone wanting to understand further, this below is worth a read. It tries to explain why audio circuits make noise (the hiss). Most of it went over my head though.. 
  
http://sound.westhost.com/noise.htm


----------



## petemac110

I've had success in eradicating hiss in several Sansuis of this era via selective or comprehensive replacement of small signal transistors in the preamp, along with any known troublesome transistors in throughout the amp. You can often achieve an inky black background. It really only makes sense to do this when you are undertaking a full recap and restoration though.


----------



## mr.khali

Very thorough impressions Moodyrn! If I can ever find one in the Toronto area I will jump on it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

So, if I read between the lines - sounds like the 500c is better sounding overall than the 9500?


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, the 500c is one of the best amps I've listened to period. The only thing I wish it had was a more euphoric character. But then, that would also take away from it's neutrality. But a little color isn't always bad.


----------



## moodyrn

I always thought the 9500 looked a little bland and boring from all of the pics I've seen. But in person, it's looks waaay better. Even the knobs are solid milled aluminum(similar to my ka-907) And though it's hard to tell from the pics, the faceplate and knobs are actually a really dark purple(matches my he-6). So the looks have really been growing on me.
  
 I still prefer the looks of the au-9900/11000/20000(epecially the 20000). But the appearance of the au9500 is quiet elegant and very different though. The fit and finish is impeccable as well.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, the 500c is one of the best amps I've listened to period. The only thing I wish it had was a more euphoric character. But then, that would also take away from it's neutrality. But a little color isn't always bad.


 
  
 Can't afford it right now - but the 500c is the one receiver I definitely want to get.  I just keep hearing so much good about its sonic character.


----------



## moodyrn

I really got lucky on mine. I scored a completely restored one for about the same price a parts/repair unit goes for on ebay. And got it right off the headfi forsale forum. The seller was in the process of moving and didn't have room for it. I was shocked there wasn't a lot of interest when I got it. He had two of them along with a restored 400 as well.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I began to get interested in the 500c when I inherited my father in laws 50 year old Fisher Console.  The sound that comes out of this unit is quite amazing.  Even more so now since I have re-tubed it.


----------



## PhoenixG

lugbug1 said:


> Looks amazing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Great article! Short version for the less technically inclined -
 Signal to noise ratio is the important number with noise.
 Preamps have the most effect on total noise.
 Very good opamps and transistors exist that can cut noise way down - for a price.
 Really cheap resistors in the preamp circuit will have an effect on noise. Really high quality resistors can cut out noise in that circuit by 3-10 dB
 Discrete op-amps (transistor pairs) in parallel can cut noise down even further than integrated ones, by up to almost 10dB if well executed.
 A lot of people try to goose spec'd noise down as low as possible through vague reporting in the specs.
 Rules of thumb - On digital systems, you should add 10 dB to the stated S/N ratio to get analogue equivalent.
  - When only input noise is specified (i.e. -120 dB), you must add amp gain (about 40 for 100 watt amps) to get S/N (in that case, -80 dB)
  - If the amp gives a "noise figure" with awkward units, it is possible to convert to dB, but you probably won't like how bad the figure is. and don't forget to add those other effects
  - Rebuilding/restoring vintage units with tight tolerance, high quality components can make them even better


----------



## Skylab

Moody that's a sweet looking piece. And apparently a sweet sounding one too! I really and truly want to hear a high end Sansui integrated some day. I've only ever owned the 9090DB and the G-8000, both of which were quite good.


----------



## Rawrbington

Moodyrn,
 hows the fisher sound with your Cornwalls?
 bummer about the cabinet, though from your pictures it looks fantastic after your repairs.
 Has it been serviced at all?


----------



## claybum

Moodyrn....I appreciate your nice write up on the 9500. Sounds like a unit I would like to try some day. I've got a Kenwood model 600 on the way so I will be tinkering with it for a while.


----------



## Meewoo

claybum said:


> Moodyrn....I appreciate your nice write up on the 9500. Sounds like a unit I would like to try some day. I've got a Kenwood model 600 on the way so I will be tinkering with it for a while.


 
  
 Have you gotten your KA-907 back yet? I would like to hear your impression with KA-907 and 600. Too me, my 500 sounds a tiny bit (a hair) warmer than 907. And I like 500 looking more!


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> Moodyrn....I appreciate your nice write up on the 9500. Sounds like a unit I would like to try some day. I've got a Kenwood model 600 on the way so I will be tinkering with it for a while.




Lol came really close to pulling the trigger on one. I'll be eagerly waiting for your impressions and comparison to the 907.



skylab said:


> Moody that's a sweet looking piece. And apparently a sweet sounding one too! I really and truly want to hear a high end Sansui integrated some day. I've only ever owned the 9090DB and the G-8000, both of which were quite good.




Thanks Sky, all of the sansui's I've own have sounded very different. Some I didn't care for and others I loved. I don't really think they have a universal house sound.



rawrbington said:


> Moodyrn,
> hows the fisher sound with your Cornwalls?
> bummer about the cabinet, though from your pictures it looks fantastic after your repairs.
> Has it been serviced at all?




The fisher is now my amp of choice with the cornwalls. I'm trying to decide between the two sansui's for my bedside rig. But the fisher is sublime with the cornwalls and pretty much anything else. An yes it's been completely rebuilt, and very well done at that.


----------



## Skylab

Heads up to you Oregon guys, this looks to be a hell of a steal:

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/clt/4112970440.html

Speakers are crap, but the rest is awesome - SX-1280 alone can be worth more than the price of the whole lot.


----------



## claybum

skylab said:


> Heads up to you Oregon guys, this looks to be a hell of a steal:
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/clt/4112970440.html
> 
> Speakers are crap, but the rest is awesome - SX-1280 alone can be worth more than the price of the whole lot.


 
  
 The seller is in Gresham......just like Orgonian. We all know Orgonian need more vintage Pioneer.


----------



## palmfish

Oh my! I am very tempted to call and drive down,

$1000 for the lot is very reasonable, although arguably, only the receiver, turntable and RTR are worth anything.

If only I was getting paid right now...


----------



## Silent One

WOWZA! If I had someone on the ground I could trust with my money 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 I'd have them check it out and ship if "Passed!"


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> Heads up to you Oregon guys, this looks to be a hell of a steal:
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/clt/4112970440.html
> 
> Speakers are crap, but the rest is awesome - SX-1280 alone can be worth more than the price of the whole lot.




Oh is that tempting............


----------



## Rawrbington

moodyrn said:


> The fisher is now my amp of choice with the cornwalls. I'm trying to decide between the two sansui's for my bedside rig. But the fisher is sublime with the cornwalls and pretty much anything else. An yes it's been completely rebuilt, and very well done at that.


 
 i acquired an 800B last month, great condition but completely original.  Been thinking about having it restored and using it as my main for my Klipsch.  Where did you get  your work done?


----------



## moodyrn

The previous owner had it restored by the fisher guru Paul Gryzbek. His work is renowned for bringing the fishers back to life and was considered to best. But sadly he passed away last year so I feel very bless to have one that was restored by him. There are a few fisher gurus left though. I did take a peek on the inside, and I'm very impressed with the job he did. The 800b would be more than worth it to bring back to life imo. It doesn't have the neutrality the 500c have, but does have more of the prototypical euphoric tone the 50-60s era amps are known for. My previous fisher was a 100c integrated and it also had the classic vintage tube, euphoric sound, and I loved it. From what I've read, the 800b would be a step up from the 100 series integrates, so I would most definitely pursue this.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn, do you (any members) have a Sansui guru already dealt with? I was told by my repair shop that a full Resto would be very expensive for the G-22000. I'm slowly beginning to think I want one. And should, since baby ain't goin' nowhere!
  
 I'd like to get an estimate to consider...


----------



## Shmitty

It's so silly to think that just because a vintage receiver hasn't been completely recapped and torn down that it is inferior to one that has. If you get them serviced by a shop that knows what they are doing and gets everything back into spec you are just as well sometimes even better off then if you had paid for a full recap. Most of the caps aren't still in production so they have to get something close which isn't always so close!


----------



## moodyrn

There are some over at audiokarma, but they have long waiting list. Skylab have a guy he deals with I think. There are a coupe of local people I know, but it's not a job they are willing to take on without paying close to a grand to do it.


----------



## Silent One

shmitty said:


> It's so silly to think that just because a vintage receiver hasn't been completely recapped and torn down that it is inferior to one that has. If you get them serviced by a shop that knows what they are doing and gets everything back into spec you are just as well sometimes even better off then if you had paid for a full recap. Most of the caps aren't still in production so they have to get something close which isn't always so close!


 
  
 There are some caps inside no longer obtainable - my guy expressed this. Also, the one or two he did replace went well. And the amp returned very good specs on the bench; plays/sounds like it should, was his opinion. He's an old-timer and been working on '70's amps since, well... the '70's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 In keeping the amp, just thought I'd seek to get baby rejuvenated. There could come a time where the end-of-life appears for a cap and maybe I'll wish I had done something. Like a caring parent.


----------



## harrinj

there is a Marantz 2240B on CL near me. $100 but no picture. thoughts?


----------



## moodyrn

That's a good price if all is wel with it.


----------



## harrinj

moodyrn said:


> That's a good price if all is wel with it.


 
  
 I wish he'd put a picture of it up! man I hate those kinds of CL people! in your opinion though, 2270 or this 2240B better?


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> I wish he'd put a picture of it up! man I hate those kinds of CL people! in your opinion though, 2270 or this 2240B better?


 
  
 If I had the choice, I'd go 2240b (was $500 74-76 ). The 2270 ($600 71-73) may be more collectable if the condition is good. But I'd wager the later model will sound better


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> There are some over at audiokarma, but they have long waiting list. Skylab have a guy he deals with I think. There are a coupe of local people I know, but it's not a job they are willing to take on without paying close to a grand to do it.




My guy is a Pioneer guy...he is great but I'm not sure where he would do Sansui or not. He did an absolutely killer job on my SX-1980.



shmitty said:


> It's so silly to think that just because a vintage receiver hasn't been completely recapped and torn down that it is inferior to one that has. If you get them serviced by a shop that knows what they are doing and gets everything back into spec you are just as well sometimes even better off then if you had paid for a full recap. Most of the caps aren't still in production so they have to get something close which isn't always so close!




This isn't really a good full picture. Electrolytic caps WILL fail. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. It's true, if you want to have a tech REMOVE every single electrolytic cap from the circuit board, test it, and then solder it back in if it tests OK, you could, but why? They will still eventually fail, and before they do, they will go out of spec and stop working correctly.

Not only that, but many of these units had other design issues that are known and documented that need to be addressed. Examples are the problematic Dolby board of the Sansui "DB" units, and the power supply boards in the SX-1980. These need to be fixed or there WILL be trouble.

A complete recap is NOT about having it perform "better" than one that is not recapped - although it may well do just that. For me the complete recap and restore is about knowing that the unit in question will very likely last another 25-30 years.

I have stated my personal opinion here before however that recapping is probably only worth paying someone to do on higher end units. It's not really worth it on less expensive ones - better to just enjoy those while they last, and then if they fail, buy another, as they are not so expensive. Or of course for someone who likes doing that sort of work themselves and knows how, then it may make sense to do a less expensive unit.


----------



## SpeakerBox

+1 on that!


----------



## SpeakerBox

One other comment on this issue.  Some of the parts available today are truly better.  An example of this can be replacing signal path electrolytic caps with something like Nichicon Gold Tunes - this made a huge improvement in sound in my Sherwood receiver.


----------



## tribestros

harrinj said:


> I wish he'd put a picture of it up! man I hate those kinds of CL people! in your opinion though, 2270 or this 2240B better?




Go with the 2240b. The late 70s Marantz are durable and sound incredible. I have a 2252b and it's the best amplifier I've ever heard/used and I work in a Magnolia Home Theater. The earlier 70s Marantzes are good but usually aren't as nice sounding, also usually need some more work.

Speaking of my Marantz, some dude is selling a serviced one for $600 on eBay. Good lord. I spent like $200 on one in pristine condition.


----------



## harrinj

tribestros said:


> Go with the 2240b. The late 70s Marantz are durable and sound incredible. I have a 2252b and it's the best amplifier I've ever heard/used and I work in a Magnolia Home Theater. The earlier 70s Marantzes are good but usually aren't as nice sounding, also usually need some more work.
> 
> Speaking of my Marantz, some dude is selling a serviced one for $600 on eBay. Good lord. I spent like $200 on one in pristine condition.


 
  
 Unfortunately someone bought it. always someone huh? :/


----------



## ssrock64

I got an email from M&S music telling me that my SX-780 is back in action and "sounds great", and all at a reasonable price. I'll probably head into the city to get it sometime this weekend.


----------



## nailbunny7

Anyone have a favorite integrated amp here?
 I am super stoked for the Pioneer SA 9900 I just bought on the ol' auction site, but would like to flesh out a collection sometime soon.


----------



## parbaked

nailbunny7 said:


> Anyone have a favorite integrated amp here?
> I am super stoked for the Pioneer SA 9900 I just bought on the ol' auction site, but would like to flesh out a collection sometime soon.


 
 Pioneer SA-7100/8100/9100 are IMO the best all around vintage integrated amps.
 Simple, elegant and musical. 

  
 Your 9900 is basically a SPEC integrated- very sweet!
 It is much more of a robust studio piece -designed to be moved around and used on site etc.
 IIRC it was not originally designed just for home audio (although they might have made an option wood case), hence the handles and side access to speaker taps & inputs.


----------



## ssrock64

Found some Normal Model 10 speakers on the local CL listed at $175; has anyone heard them?


----------



## LugBug1

ssrock64 said:


> I got an email from M&S music telling me that my SX-780 is back in action and "sounds great", and all at a reasonable price. I'll probably head into the city to get it sometime this weekend.


 
 Thats good news!
  


nailbunny7 said:


> Anyone have a favorite integrated amp here?
> I am super stoked for the Pioneer SA 9900 I just bought on the ol' auction site, but would like to flesh out a collection sometime soon.


 
 Sansui au-505, I'm a big fan of the early 70's Sansui sound. Congrats on the Pioneer, if that's your first vintage then you've struck gold!


----------



## kstuart

nailbunny7 said:


> Anyone have a favorite integrated amp here?
> I am super stoked for the Pioneer SA 9900 I just bought on the ol' auction site, but would like to flesh out a collection sometime soon.


 

 The Sansui AU-717 and AU-719 get a lot of love here and on audiokarma.com ...


----------



## kstuart

Q to MattTCG:
  
 How do the MA900s work with Vintage Amps ?
  
 Are they too efficient ?


----------



## Skylab

So I was a let to get my SX-680's scruffy cabinet refinished with a real wood veneer. My little bedroom system, the 680, Infinitesimals, and an iPod + Wadia dock, is quite the little rig. And the cool thing is my wife LOVES it. She uses it mostly, and mostly for listening to the radio.


----------



## wotts

Looking good, Rob. Do you like the Wadia dock? I saw different brand in the man cave and wondered which was easier to use. I have an old iPhone 3G I am planning to use in that type of setup.


----------



## LugBug1

skylab said:


> So I was a let to get my SX-680's scruffy cabinet refinished with a real wood veneer. My little bedroom system, the 680, Infinitesimals, and an iPod + Wadia dock, is quite the little rig. And the cool thing is my wife LOVES it. She uses it mostly, and mostly for listening to the radio.


 
 Awww bless, nice bedroom rig. I luv those speakers!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I had a 680 for a while.  Very nice sounding unit.  It was in absolute mint condition too.  Kind of sorry I sold it.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> I had a 680 for a while.  Very nice sounding unit.  It was in absolute mint condition too.  Kind of sorry I sold it.




Surprisingly good sounding for the size/price.




wotts said:


> Looking good, Rob. Do you like the Wadia dock? I saw different brand in the man cave and wondered which was easier to use. I have an old iPhone 3G I am planning to use in that type of setup.




Hi Tim, the dock that you saw was the Pure i20 and it's nicer, and cheaper. The Wadia I bought when it first came out as it was the first of its kind.




lugbug1 said:


> Awww bless, nice bedroom rig. I luv those speakers!




Cute, aren't they? And amazing sound for the size.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, what a sweat looking bedroom rig. In appearance, it rivals most modern desktop/table top rigs I've seen. But sound quality wise, I bet it beats most of them, even the 4 figure ones. Nice!!


----------



## ssrock64

Back in business!


----------



## Silent One

Let the weekend begin!


----------



## Rawrbington

bah i missed out on a sx 750 in what looked like very good condition for 30 bucks.
 i saw it around noon, didn't call, and now someones coming by to see it, with me 2nd on the list.
 don't know how you turn that thing down at that price


----------



## ssrock64

silent one said:


> Let the weekend begin!


 
 I'm starting mine off with the most controversial recordings ever put out by U2. It also happens to be one of the best-produced albums I own on CD.


----------



## moodyrn

ssrock64 said:


> Back in business!




Nice! Congrats.


----------



## jasonb

rawrbington said:


> bah i missed out on a sx 750 in what looked like very good condition for 30 bucks.
> i saw it around noon, didn't call, and now someones coming by to see it, with me 2nd on the list.
> don't know how you turn that thing down at that price


 
 Yea, I got mine for $40. A little DeOxit and she was good to go.


----------



## Destroysall

So finally have an excuse to post here, mind me. I have in my current possession, a Marantz 2220B receiver. While the receiver may need some cleaning work and bulb replacements, it has served me well so far. I currently utilize it as a phono preamp and speaker amplifier for my Technics SL-210 F.G. Servo turntable.

  
 The record playing on the turntable is Mobile Fidelity's pressing of Miles Davis' Round About Midnight, which sounds fantastic (even in Mono). : - )


----------



## ssrock64

God, I need to get myself one of the Marantz units that keeps popping up on the Craigslist, just for looks. They simply can't be beat in the visual department.


----------



## Destroysall

ssrock64 said:


> God, I need to get myself one of the Marantz units that keeps popping up on the Craigslist, just for looks. They simply can't be beat in the visual department.


 

 I can safely say I agree. While I simply adore the look of Pioneer's integrated amplifiers, the Marantz have this enigmatic sort of "class" to them that I too feel can't be ignored. While I do wish the amplification were more powerful, it does have this warm "analogue" sound that is just wonderful. So I definitely recommend them if you do find them.


----------



## kstuart

LOL - that picture could have been taken in the 1970s  - no one would know.


----------



## harrinj

destroysall said:


> So finally have an excuse to post here, mind me. I have in my current possession, a Marantz 2220B receiver. While the receiver may need some cleaning work and bulb replacements, it has served me well so far. I currently utilize it as a phono preamp and speaker amplifier for my Technics SL-210 F.G. Servo turntable.
> 
> 
> The record playing on the turntable is Mobile Fidelity's pressing of Miles Davis' Round About Midnight, which sounds fantastic (even in Mono). : - )


 
 You like your 2220B? They are pretty. I have a mint condition 2220B, it sits atop my 4240.


----------



## claybum

man, this 500c is beautiful....and someone is gonna pay some big bucks for it.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-FISHER-500c-12ax7-7591-Tube-Stereo-FM-Receiver-Fisher-400-800c-era-/111183475146?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19e30d31ca


----------



## Destroysall

harrinj said:


> You like your 2220B? They are pretty. I have a mint condition 2220B, it sits atop my 4240.


 

 I started off conflicted with the receiver. I personally enjoy a somewhat bright and detailed sound, and the Marantz is warm. While I still don't enjoy the amp with headphones, I do find it to work loudspeakers wonderfully. I plan on upgrading my speakers later this year and will most likely upgrade to a newer amplifier as well, but It would be hard for me to let this one go.


----------



## harrinj

destroysall said:


> I started off conflicted with the receiver. I personally enjoy a somewhat bright and detailed sound, and the Marantz is warm. While I still don't enjoy the amp with headphones, I do find it to work loudspeakers wonderfully. I plan on upgrading my speakers later this year and will most likely upgrade to a newer amplifier as well, but It would be hard for me to let this one go.


 
 same! I never enjoyed it with headphones either but speakers sound decent off of the 2220B.


----------



## ssrock64

I feel that way about the SX780, but that's probably because I have a DAC1 and an Auditor for my headphones. I've spoiled myself on that front, whereas I've never really had anything adequate to drive my speakers. I absolutely love jamming out to anything in my collection with my Missions.


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> man, this 500c is beautiful....and someone is gonna pay some big bucks for it.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-FISHER-500c-12ax7-7591-Tube-Stereo-FM-Receiver-Fisher-400-800c-era-/111183475146?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19e30d31ca


 
 That is beautiful, and it has the one thing mine is missing....a mint original cabinet. I really hope I can score one soon and after seeing that one I stand behind my original premise of preferring the originals over any current production one. And that includes the gorgeous cabinets from McIntosh cabinets. Yes they look better overall, but the original walnut cabinet just mates perfect with that face plate. 
  
 On the other hand, I feel even more privileged for have mine. Looking at the internals, the restore job on mine was way better. But yeah, that price is pretty typical for a refurbished one in mint condition. But fortunate for me, mine only cost me 502 shipped.


----------



## kstuart

I'm sorry but the Fisher amps may sound great, but they look like ass.  They have these little slide switches like from cheap kids electronics kits.  The knobs look and feel cheap as well. In my opinion, one might think they look good, simply because you know they sound good - a sort of "appearance placebo effect".


----------



## moodyrn

I'll have to disagree with that. And the notion of sound having a placebo affect visually is a bit funny to me. Ultimately  for me it's all about how it sounds. But imo the 800/500/400 receivers look stunning. Much better than most tube receivers from that era(save a select few). I feel the same way about the x100B/kx100, x202, and especially the x1000(not so much for the c series though). But beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
  
 While it's true the knobs are plastic with brass caps, that have little effect visually for me. They don't have the feel of many solid state receivers. But even many of those have plastic knobs. Just take one off and have a look on the inside. There you will find plastic with an aluminum covering. Some of them even have plastic with a fake aluminum plastic covering. Very few actually have milled solid aluminum knobs.


----------



## PhoenixG

Speaking of knobs here - I am definitely guilty of judging receivers based on how their knobs are made, at least on some level. I reeeeealy prefer the quality milled knobs. Even though I know it is in no way directly related to sound quality.


----------



## palmfish

Let me put my nomex on...
  
 I have always disliked the way Marantz receivers look. I hate the tuning wheel. But the silver ones look way better than the hideous gold receivers they made for a while!


----------



## LugBug1

I do like how the classic Marantz look (great knobs), but the appeal very soon goes out the window as you find better made and sounding amps. The Pioneers through-out the 70's are generally better to look at in 'real life'. The outsides are also - better made (even better knobs!). More attention to detail and the feel of the controls are very high quality even on the lower end models. 
  
 Its the design of the Marantz that is eye catching and deserved of the aesthetic award. But compared to the big girls... They can be a little 'all fur coat and no knickers'. If you know what I mean  
  
 I love my Marantz but wouldn't keep them over any of my Pioneer or Sansui's.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> 'all fur coat and no knickers'. If you know what I mean


 
  
 I have no problem with that personally, although I agree with receivers its not as appealing...


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## kstuart

Unfortunately, none of the appropriate illustrations can be posted in this Forum.


----------



## LugBug1

kstuart said:


> Unfortunately, none of the appropriate illustrations can be posted in this Forum.


 
 Found one.


----------



## dgcrane

I just thought I would upload my system photo again since I have made some significant changes 
  
 BEFORE :
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/7365#post_9492459
  
 AFTER :
  

  
 Sansui was fully rebuilt and sure is pretty


----------



## LugBug1

dgcrane said:


> I just thought I would upload my system photo again since I have made some significant changes


 
 Nice! I remember your original set up don't need to look ; Twas Marantz, and I can say for sure that you've done better for yourself. Those Sansui's are timeless.


----------



## moodyrn

phoenixg said:


> Speaking of knobs here - I am definitely guilty of judging receivers based on how their knobs are made, at least on some level. I reeeeealy prefer the quality milled knobs. Even though I know it is in no way directly related to sound quality.


 
 Lol, I agree with that. And when it comes to knobs the first thing that comes to mind is  my ka-907. There's a thread somewhere on ak dedicated to the 907's volume knob. Once you take it off, your hand almost hits the floor. The thing feels like it weighs a few pounds. And it's not one of those skimpy 2 finger knobs. This thing is so massive it requires all five fingers to turn it. But the pot is equally impressive. It's so smooth that turning that massive hunk of solid aluminum feels like butta. The knob just speaks of the quality of the 907 as a whole, it's really a technological marvel. Just wish it had the sex appear of the supreme series.


----------



## moodyrn

dgcrane said:


> I just thought I would upload my system photo again since I have made some significant changes
> 
> BEFORE :
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice upgrade!!


lugbug1 said:


> I do like how the classic Marantz look (great knobs), but the appeal very soon goes out the window as you find better made and sounding amps. *The Pioneers through-out the 70's are generally better to look at in 'real life'*. The outsides are also - better made (even better knobs!). More attention to detail and the feel of the controls are very high quality even on the lower end models.
> 
> Its the design of the Marantz that is eye catching and deserved of the aesthetic award. But compared to the big girls... They can be a little 'all fur coat and no knickers'. If you know what I mean
> 
> I love my Marantz but wouldn't keep them over any of my Pioneer or Sansui's.


 
 This is something that's very true. Having owned a few totl marantz and pioneers, I can honestly say the marantz look better on pictures. But having both side by side, the pioneer have much better build quality and also look better too. And it becomes shocking how much better the materials are. As far as the brands I've owned goes, overall built quality goes to the pioneers followed closely by sansui and kenwood(although the supreme series/907 is a different story). The marantz are on a lower tier. You really have to step up the marantz super monster class(2500/2600) to compete with pioneers regular monster class(sx1010,1250,1280). All of sansui's and kenwoods I've owned had excellent build quality as well. 
  
 Marantz was one of the brands I was speaking of in a previous post about not having solid aluminum knobs. Heck even the face plate on my 2325 have silk screening instead of engraved lettering. Every other brand higher end models I've owned have engraved lettering. Don't mean to sound like a marantz basher, but their build quality although good and better than most modern gear, just don't compete with other vintage brands I've owned.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> Very nice upgrade!!
> This is something that's very true. Having owned a few totl marantz and pioneers, I can honestly say the marantz look better on pictures. But having both side by side, the pioneer have much better build quality and also look better too. And it becomes shocking how much better the materials are. As far as the brands I've owned goes, overall built quality goes to the pioneers followed closely by sansui and kenwood(although the supreme series/907 is a different story). The marantz are on a lower tier. You really have to step up the marantz super monster class(2500/2600) to compete with pioneers regular monster class(sx1010,1250,1280). All of sansui's and kenwoods I've owned had excellent build quality as well.
> 
> Marantz was one of the brands I was speaking of in a previous post about not having solid aluminum knobs. Heck even the face plate on my 2325 have silk screening instead of engraved lettering. Every other brand higher end models I've owned have engraved lettering. Don't mean to sound like a marantz basher, but their build quality although good and better than most modern gear, just don't compete with other vintage brands I've owned.




This is very true, and was a big surprise to me when I was first getting into vintage. The similarly powered Pioneer SX-980 and Marantz 2285 are great examples. The Pioneer is much heavier and more robustly built. I have a 2285 still, but it's not even close to what the 980 is (much less the higher end Pioneers). 

I admit though I would love to see and hear a Marantz 2500 someday...


----------



## palmfish

I remember lusting after black-faced Sansui separates when they were new and I find myself still lusting after them. They are so sexy!


----------



## Silent One

_very._..


----------



## dgcrane

Thanks... I was happy to find the set of Sansui at my local goodwill for $20 a piece.....
  
 Just kidding LOL


----------



## Oregonian

My latest system in my garage. It's primarily for TV while working out or on my exercise bike but has an iPod hookup. 

The front end is a Yamaha (sort of vintage) with remote control running a pair of Bose speakers, and then I pulled out the preamp jumpers and hooked up my Fisher CA880 with 100 WPC to run the back end feeding Klipsch KG 3.2's. Sounds really good. I did it more because this Fisher, which was given to me, was not being utilized for any other system so figured why not? Sounds really good and fills the garage nicely.


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> My latest system in my garage. It's primarily for TV while working out or on my exercise bike but has an iPod hookup.
> 
> The front end is a Yamaha (sort of vintage) with remote control running a pair of Bose speakers, and then I pulled out the preamp jumpers and hooked up my Fisher CA880 with 100 WPC to run the back end feeding Klipsch KG 3.2's. Sounds really good. I did it more because this Fisher, which was given to me, was not being utilized for any other system so figured why not? Sounds really good and fills the garage nicely.


 
 That looks really smart Oregonian, they go well together. 
  
 I used to try and utilize every amp I've got as I don't like owing anything that is surplus. But for the last few weeks or so I've only been using two amps. Sansui 501 downstairs and Nad3020 upstairs. And that is strange for me :O Seems I'm really quite content regarding sound at the mo. Just as well because I'm going through a bit a cash crisis... Another month or so and I'll be on the prowl again though.


----------



## Meewoo

For Pioneer fanboys, this is one IA you should collect. The other is A-?? (keep secret)
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-A-0012-Series-20-A-27-/321228135882?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4acab05dca
  
 again, no affiliation.


----------



## palmfish

Thats a beauty! I really like the brushed silver and flat toggles - timeless styling. Early 80's? It reminds me of a Technics integrated that my dad had around that time.


----------



## palmfish

Found a picture of my dad's old integrated...
  

  
 And the turntable that went with it...
  

  
 Man, this thread sure does bring back memories  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I have no idea where all his old gear went, but I sure wish it was still around.


----------



## Silent One

Yesterday, my new headphone cable arrived complete with pigtails for the HE-6. I leashed the bad boys up to speaker taps direct on the Sansui G-22000 Pure Power DC Receiver. Took it to the next level.
  
 Formerly, I interfaced the HE-Adapter to the speaker taps. And never heard the amp's full potential. Until 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now.


----------



## Lorspeaker

U mean a cable from the cups straight to 4wire taps?
I must give it a try too.


----------



## MrQ

silent one said:


> Yesterday, my new headphone cable arrived complete with pigtails for the HE-6. I leashed the bad boys up to speaker taps direct on the Sansui G-22000 Pure Power DC Receiver. Took it to the next level.
> 
> Formerly, I interfaced the HE-Adapter to the speaker taps. And never heard the amp's full potential. Until
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's 240w at 8ohms you're plugging into
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I believe Fang Bain recommended that one only went up to 100w when plugging directly into an amp.
  
 Even with the HE-Adapter out of the back of my SX-1980 I don't get as much range on volume knob as I do just using the head out. How much control are you getting.
  
 I must admit if you manage not to blow up your HE-6 I might try it myself.


----------



## analogsurviver

mrq said:


> That's 240w at 8ohms you're plugging into
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It is the only proper way to drive HPs directly off speaker output. You have to be careful with volume, switching, cable pulling and the like - no resistor in series to absorb and protect from anything what should not be there in the first place. Power levels and HP sensitivities have to be reasonably matched, both for HP safety and hiss reasons. Far from all speaker amps are quiet enough with all HPs, particularly IEMs. But they are out there.
  
 Once you experience a good combo of speaker amp driving suitable cans, you will find it hard to go back to more normal setups. If you are looking for euphonic result or are using some HPs that are known to sound beter with high(ish) amp output impedance, this might not be the ticket. Anything else - 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 You may discover that volume potentiometer on (vintage) amp/receiver is iffy at lower volume setting compared to speakers. How much a really good reliable pot costs - sky is unfortunately the limit here. But a decent blue Alps unit should be good enough for all but most extreme situations and most demanding users. Better spending for say an Alps than having to replace costly HPs due to the fact that pot can trough intermittent contact al lower setting output full blast the amp is capable of.


----------



## Silent One

mrq said:


> That's 240w at 8ohms you're plugging into
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  





 Shhhhhhh... just in case he pops into one of my threads. May need to replace 'em 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 The sound? More open versus HPO or into HE-Adapter > Out to taps. In the HE-6 thread, I mentioned it was akin to cleaning the large picture window in the front of the living room. Or kickin' the front door down entirely. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Does the '1980' have an inner-lock ring for setting maximum volume? I love this about my G-22000. Though, the temptation remains to turn-it-up! 
  
 On range, agreed that there is less range on the volume knob but still very good control near minimum volume.


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> Does the '1980' have an inner-lock ring for setting maximum volume? I love this about my G-22000. Though, the temptation remains to turn-it-up!




It does not - that's a cool feature though,


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's high anxiety inside the listening room. I'm trying really really hard to be careful with the turn of the knob, seemingly with a favourite track lurking around every corner. 
  
 However, when the Sansui is pumping decent volume through the HE-6, they sound like mini-speakers.


----------



## MrQ

silent one said:


> However, when the Sansui is pumping decent volume through the HE-6, they sound like mini-speakers.


 
  
 Ok, you sold it to me


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> It's high anxiety inside the listening room. I'm trying really really hard to be careful with the turn of the knob, seemingly with a favourite track lurking around every corner.
> 
> However, when the Sansui is pumping decent volume through the HE-6, they sound like mini-speakers.


 
 ANY decent headph... - I mean earspekars - really do sound like mini speakers. Jecklin Float, Stax Lambda, AKG K 1000,HE-6, plus may others I am not familiar with. You can listen to the news on TV or radio on Floats if they are sitting on the table - across the room...


----------



## Silent One




----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


>


 
 The Tower of Power!!


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


>


 
 I like black better than silver - so the vote goes to the front wheel. What is it made of: rim, hub, spokes, tire ?
  
 My colour preferences aside, congrats on Tower Of Power 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *analogsurviver* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks kindly on the stack! The front wheel is a 700c Specialized Roval Rapide 60 Carbon Clincher Wheel. It belongs to my Cervelo S5 sitting in the hallway... here:
  

  
  
 And is usually kept in the middle of my bedroom, along with a vintage Schwinn - I ride the Velo on Saturdays, the Carbon Cervelo a time or two during the week and the Steel Schwinn a couple of times a month.


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> The Tower of Power!!


 
  
 haha!!! the three amps are all usually on the floor but got stacked for a group foto.


----------



## shipsupt

Glad to see they had mercy and put you on the first floor considering the gear you're lugging into the room!


----------



## Silent One

shipsupt said:


> Glad to see they had mercy and put you on the first floor considering the gear you're lugging into the room!


 
  
 No, I walked it down (I'm upstairs thankfully). I tend to remove stuff for housekeeping and march it all back inside.


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Thanks kindly on the stack! The front wheel is a 700c Specialized Roval Rapide 60 Carbon Clincher Wheel. It belongs to my Cervelo S5 sitting in the hallway... here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm - inspired by the recent changes in Yahoo! Mail, hereby I pronounce you:
  
*You are my bicycle anti-theft Hero !*
  
 It is a sad fact of today's world that the only lock any serious bike should ever see is that on the door to your appartment or house. Anything else is just asking for trouble. From "contracts" ( a Colnago size so and so much with Ultegra, "ordered" by/for a known "customer" ) to junkies stealing better bikes just for the daily dose - and everything in between. Likelihood that police would do anything - or even retrieve the bike - are practical approximation of zero. 
  
 For above reason, I only go to a restaurant where I can always keep an eye on the bike. *NO *exceptions. A sandwich from gas station is infinitely more tasty than paying whatever's Chef's ouvre  - by stolen bike.
  
 For "non bicycle speaking" head-fiers - SO's bikes pictured here DWARF The Tower Of Power in price/value. You may think twice before pronouncing SO "anything" for having bikes in the bedroom - I too own two bikes and after my mountain bike "rode off" from the locked cellar, they both have to be in the flat.


----------



## Silent One

Speaking of theft, and why I even have two extra receivers with me, is strategic. I only have interest in listening to the very rare Sansui G-22000. The other two receivers are bait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 It is my hope, that if someone should come in and take one... or two amps, it'll be the _other _ones.


----------



## shipsupt

A "modern" thief would probably elect to leave the vintage treasures and leave with the iPod.


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Speaking of theft, and why I even have two extra receivers with me, is strategic. I only have interest in listening to the very rare Sansui G-22000. The other two receivers are bait!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 GOOD one - I mean strategy.
  
 I have one acquaintance with a VERY intertesting theft story. The building has terrace balcony - and the first thing you notice entering his flat is very sturdy fence bars across all of the opening of the terrace balcony. Reason?
 He went away for holidays and left the keys of the apartment to his mother to come often enough to water the plants. One day, she opened the door - and almost tripped over the turntable ( Well Tempered ) in the hallway. In next room(s) on the floor there were respectively tuner, preamp, power amp...etc. 
  
 They obviously came to steal audio equipment - BUT when they realized his LP collection (some 5K LPs) FAR outstrips Audio Reasearches and Mark Levinsons in value (not to mention untraceability opposed to Serial # on equipment ), they simply took the records and left the audio equipment on the floor.
  
 Final straw: as many of these LPs have been long out of print, a "friendly bird" tweeted his records will be ocassionally on sale at the local flea market. He had to re-buy his own LPs - it took one hell of a lot of sunday visits to the flea market, as his records were always offered by the different "dealer" - never more than 5 pcs per day....he got back perhaps one third, other rarities were grabbed by the "innocent bystanders"...


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


>


 
 Very cool! I see that bottom Sansui on Craigslist from time to time. Is that the HE-6? I love my HE-500 they sound so nice out of my Kenwood KA-7100 and just got Richard Wright's Broken China on CD and it's one of the best CD's I've heard! I wish they would not keep freaking pushing back Roger Waters Amused to Death SACD because I want to listen to it so bad with these headphones! It was supposed to come out the other day >___________<


----------



## ssrock64

silent one said:


> Thanks kindly on the stack! The front wheel is a 700c Specialized Roval Rapide 60 Carbon Clincher Wheel. It belongs to my Cervelo S5 sitting in the hallway... here:
> 
> 
> And is usually kept in the middle of my bedroom, along with a vintage Schwinn - I ride the Velo on Saturdays, the Carbon Cervelo a time or two during the week and the Steel Schwinn a couple of times a month.


 
 I have an Orbea Team Euskaltel replica from the first all-carbon generation, as well as a Specialized Tarmac Elite for more casual rides. The Orbea has Dura-Ace and the Specialized is Ultegra.
  
 I have a burning hatred for Ultegra.


----------



## wotts

SO, that looks stunning! And I thought I was done chasing flagships until I saw that Sansui again.


----------



## harrinj

wotts said:


> SO, that looks stunning! And I thought I was done chasing flagships until I saw that Sansui again.


 
 Are you talking about his bottom Sansui? There has been one on CL near me since early this year. It just never sells! 

 just checked and either the ads expired and will be up again or someone finally bought it...


----------



## wotts

I have seen one 22000 and one 33000 and both were gone when I called. But I'm in between Detroit and Chicago so this area can be picked over.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> SO, that looks stunning! And I thought I was done chasing flagships until I saw that Sansui again.


 
  





 Done chasing? Next time you run through your playlist or pull up subscription radio, play George Clinton's "Atomic Dog" and get thy understanding. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 After careful review, I think it's time I show the Pioneers the door. Both the SX-650 and SX-D7000 had their time and place inside my room. The former makes for an excellent shop receiver/office receiver. I want the next listening room to have a minimalist aesthetic. Just enough audio pieces for enjoyment.
  
 When not in-session, I want the room to have a pleasing and calming effect and be free of clutter. And have a multi-purpose role for reading, writing, studying, tea, meditation and relaxation. Oh, but vintage gears are sooo much fun! And it still tickles me to watch adult men trying to restrain themselves when they encounter the Silver-faced SX-650... aching to touch, turn and flick every switch they can find! 




  
 Those are the considerate ones. Others just reach mid-sentence 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




while talking to me. Admittedly, those levers on Silver-faced Pioneers has got to be one of the greatest details on receivers ever!
  
 Psychiatrist:  _"How long have you had the urge to flick these levers?"_


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I have seen one 22000 and one 33000 and both were gone when I called. But I'm in between Detroit and Chicago so this area can be picked over.


 
  
 The last 33000 you and I saw in Detroit looked to be in great shape at a really good price! I got caught dilly-dallying, 'cause when I finally made up my mind and contacted the seller, the eventual buyer was en route to his house.


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> Are you talking about his bottom Sansui? There has been one on CL near me since early this year. It just never sells!
> 
> just checked and either the ads expired and will be up again or someone finally bought it...


 
  
 Hmmm, I'd like to have a look... virtually speaking. Can you send the link? It could be that this particular unit has issues - fixing them aren't going to be cheap in some cases either. A few of the pieces inside are no longer available and one would have to use suitable replacement caps and stuff, I believe.


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> Hmmm, I'd like to have a look... virtually speaking. Can you send the link? It could be that this particular unit has issues - fixing them aren't going to be cheap in some cases either. A few of the pieces inside are no longer available and one would have to use suitable replacement caps and stuff, I believe.


 
 I don't know how to bring up old listings :/ I think there was one on the Seattle, WA CL too that I saw from the portland, OR CL but that one has vanished too. sometimes I hate CL, it will bring up results but these people seem to purposly mislabel their locations because they don't show up in the said areas! like ther eis a Marantz 235(something) for $1,300 in North Bend, OR BUT it shows up in Portland, OR CL and NOT Oregon Coast CL. 

 Now I cannot find that Marantz one...


----------



## jasonb

The little SX-750 I got for only $40 a couple months ago is still going strong. I still believe it is the best sounding amp I've ever heard with headphones, especially coupled with the also inexpensive ODAC. Gobs of power, tons of detail, neutral sound signature, and a big soundstage. I never even have to take the volume knob past 9 o'clock ever! It really makes my modded Q701 sing.


----------



## Silent One

That's a serious return on your investment!


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> I don't know how to bring up old listings :/ I think there was one on the Seattle, WA CL too that I saw from the portland, OR CL but that one has vanished too. sometimes I hate CL, it will bring up results but these people seem to purposly mislabel their locations because they don't show up in the said areas! like ther eis a Marantz 235(something) for $1,300 in North Bend, OR BUT it shows up in Portland, OR CL and NOT Oregon Coast CL.
> 
> Now I cannot find that Marantz one...


 
  
 Sometimes, I wonder just what's going on. I could look for the G-33000/22000 locally-regionally-nationally and come up with nuthin' on CL. And seconds later get a message from a buddy..._ "Did you see the Sansui over in such and such?!"_
  
 Me and my ISP gonna have a lil' chat!


----------



## PhoenixG

Nice bicycle SO. That'd look good with my '73 Schwinn World Voyageur.


----------



## Xovaan

I recently acquired a Nakamichi TA-2A for free and I'm pretty much blown away by the sound quality. I bypassed the internal preamp with my Nuforce Icon HDP to take the role of the preamp and DAC and it's hilarious how well it filled out my ATH-AD900's.
  
 What is proper care for a receiver this old? I know lytic caps tend to go bad after so many years, but I was wondering if it's worth upgrading versus just putting that money toward a Schiit Mjolnir or something similar when I decide to hate money and get some Audeze LCD-3's or other higher end headphones. Many say old receivers work wonderfully with planar magnetic headphones which is why I'm curious.


----------



## Oregonian

xovaan said:


> I recently acquired a Nakamichi TA-2A for free and I'm pretty much blown away by the sound quality. I bypassed the internal preamp with my Nuforce Icon HDP to take the role of the preamp and DAC and it's hilarious how well it filled out my ATH-AD900's.
> 
> What is proper care for a receiver this old? I know lytic caps tend to go bad after so many years, but I was wondering if it's worth upgrading versus just putting that money toward a Schiit Mjolnir or something similar when I decide to hate money and get some Audeze LCD-3's or other higher end headphones. Many say old receivers work wonderfully with planar magnetic headphones which is why I'm curious.


 

 Congrats on the acquisition!  First thing is to get some Deoxit and read the "Deoxit for Dummies" http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-207005.html and start there....................


----------



## Xovaan

oregonian said:


> Congrats on the acquisition!  First thing is to get some Deoxit and read the "Deoxit for Dummies" http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-207005.html and start there....................


 
 Thanks! Ended up reading that thread before posting and ordered some mascara brushes and DeOxit red liquid to gently clean the connectors. Glad to see I wasn't far off the path!


----------



## Silent One

The following message is brought to you in part by Team Sansui & Silent One...
  
                                   :   :    TGIF!    :   :


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> The following message is brought to you in part by Team Sansui & Silent One...
> 
> :   :    TGIF!    :   :


 
 @ Silent One: Great Nocturnal Activities !
  
 Thanks to SO's continued use of urban/internet/modern slang & abbreviations, Uncle Google normally provides updating of my limited knowledge on these matters !
  
 The only trouble is that TGIF does NOT mean to me the same as to most people - most recordings I do are over weekend, therefore Sunday is slowly-but-securely turning into my most working day of the week. This weekend - thanks God for work ! - being no exception...


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> The following message is brought to you in part by Team Sansui & Silent One...
> 
> :   :    TGIF!    :   :


 
  
 *******TFIF********* indeed


----------



## parbaked

The Pioneer SA-7100 got a cleaning today:
  
 Thoughtful architecture: 

  
 Phono board:

  
 Power amp and heat sinks:

  
 Tone controls:

 Dust cover back on and ready to go:

  
 Reason for the fuss. Just scored some pristine early Spendor S3/5 in lovely bird's eye maple to play with the 7100:

  
 So far so sweet!


----------



## Silent One

Nice to see some TLC in action... makes me wanna 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




pop the top!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Nice to see some TLC in action... makes me wanna
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 De-oxit is your friend!


----------



## Oregonian

Yes, the cleaning of a worthy Pioneer is a good thing.


----------



## Destroysall

parbaked said:


> Reason for the fuss. Just scored some pristine early Spendor S3/5 in lovely bird's eye maple to play with the 7100:
> 
> 
> So far so sweet!


 
 parbaked, have I ever complimented your photography? I think your photos do your equipment such divine justice.  
  
 What happened to the Sonus Faber loudspeakers? Also, any chance for some photos of this whole "new" setup?


----------



## analogsurviver

destroysall said:


> parbaked, have I ever complimented your photography? I think your photos do your equipment such divine justice.
> 
> What happened to the Sonus Faber loudspeakers? Also, any chance for some photos of this whole "new" setup?


 
 Ha ha, old love never dies. IIRC, "somewhere" I did ask why LS3/5a was exchanged for Sonus Faber. IIRC #2, it was money, sum offered was too good to pass. Guess #1 : the first opportunity to re-acquire LS3/5(a) at reasonable price has been grabbed with both hands....
  
 Nice job with 7100, too. Congrats 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!


----------



## LugBug1

parbaked said:


> The Pioneer SA-7100 got a cleaning today:


 
 Nice work. You have to have a real gentle touch when cleaning all the resistors etc. I use a fine art paint brush, almost like I'm touching up a masterpeice haha
  


oregonian said:


> Yes, the cleaning of a worthy Pioneer is a good thing.


 
 Its nice to see the insides of these old classic Pioneers. The more power, the more space taken up for the caps . Circuit boards now on their sides etc.  
  
 I'd love to own either. Great stuff!


----------



## sidrpm

Just got a vintage Pioneer quad receiver today, circa 1972-73.
  
 Currently using with my Fostex TH900.
  
 Next stop to get the Yamaha NS-1000M speakers.
  
 Keeping my eyes open for a Sansui amp.


----------



## LugBug1

sidrpm said:


> Just got a vintage Pioneer quad receiver today, circa 1972-73.


 
 QX9900 nice nice nice. 
  
 Nice. 
  
 Don't see many of those, well done!


----------



## parbaked

destroysall said:


> parbaked, have I ever complimented your photography? I think your photos do your equipment such divine justice.
> 
> What happened to the Sonus Faber loudspeakers? Also, any chance for some photos of this whole "new" setup?


 
 Thanks. Here's one more shot - of the rather large (6800 uF for a 20 wpc amp) caps.

  
 The Sonus Fabers are pulling duty in the den - 2 channel "home theater".

 Great little speakers.
  
 I can't post a picture of the entire set-up until I take a good one...


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> So far so sweet!


 
 I had a Pioneer Integrated Amplifier that was new, or a year or two after release, and that looks so very familiar.
  
 It could even be the same one... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 IIRC, I used Roger Sound Lab speakers:
  




  
 I swapped those tweeters for Philips dome tweeters...


----------



## parbaked

destroysall said:


> Also, any chance for some photos of this whole "new" setup?


 
 This is the office rig.
 Modified Rega P2 or Planet CD > Pioneer SA-7100 > Spendor S3/5.
 Cranking live Hendrix, nice!


----------



## parbaked

analogsurviver said:


> Ha ha, old love never dies. IIRC, "somewhere" I did ask why LS3/5a was exchanged for Sonus Faber. IIRC #2, it was money, sum offered was too good to pass. Guess #1 : the first opportunity to re-acquire LS3/5(a) at reasonable price has been grabbed with both hands....
> 
> Nice job with 7100, too. Congrats
> 
> ...


 
 You have a good memory and are almost right! The Spendor S3/5 are later replacements for the LS3/5a. Same size cabinets (turned sideways) but different drivers and crossover.
 IMO, a much better speaker, really...
 Any of these BBC voiced monitors are wonderful partners to our vintage iron!


----------



## Destroysall

parbaked said:


> This is the office rig.
> Modified Rega P2 or Planet CD > Pioneer SA-7100 > Spendor S3/5.
> Cranking live Hendrix, nice!


 

 Beautiful. Just beautiful. I must ask two things however. My first being is that turntable floating?? :O My second being is if the featured wooden shelves are all DIY? I'm sure that question has been asked before as well. LOL.


----------



## analogsurviver

parbaked said:


> You have a good memory and are almost right! The Spendor S3/5 are later replacements for the LS3/5a. Same size cabinets (turned sideways) but different drivers and crossover.
> IMO, a much better speaker, really...
> Any of these BBC voiced monitors are wonderful partners to our vintage iron!


 
 Spendor is kind of dark horse - always there, always good, but other manufacturers seem to be able to outdo them at chickensquaking. I wish I got Spendor BC1 instead of Rogers LS3/5a back then - but although (almost?) all birds lay eggs, we consume (mainly) chicken eggs - cococoDaAAAAK !
  
 Did not know Spendor did a "sequel" to the LS3/5a; how would you describe your observation of S3/5 being superiour to the LS3/5a ?


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of Spendor LS3/5A that are my office speakers...connected to a Marantz 2285. The sound is absolutely lovely! It's not for the detail/resolution craving audiophile, but it's beautiful sounding beyond words.


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> I have a pair of Spendor LS3/5A that are my office speakers...connected to a Marantz 2285. The sound is absolutely lovely! It's not for the detail/resolution craving audiophile, but it's beautiful sounding beyond words.


 
 I meant to ask how you were enjoying your Spendors, when I saw the pics you posted of your little Infinities. 
 How do they compare (or should we move this to another thread?).
 The LS3/5a are fabulous speakers. If you shove them in a bookcase, they still sound lovely.  
 If you treat them like audiophile kit e.g. right stands, positioning, equipment etc, they can sound audiophile too!
 The only thing they don't do well is play loud or fill a large room.  
 That and, like our vintage receivers, the older LS3/5a will go out of spec because some components were selected for sound and were only designed to last 25 years.
 It is similar to how you have described some TOTL receivers "requiring" service and upgrades to ensure ongoing enjoyment.
 One difference is that the value of your Pioneers is "increased" by the restoration/upgrades you perform.
 The collectable LS3/5a lose value (it's all relative) if they have been "opened up" let alone modified/restored.


----------



## parbaked

destroysall said:


> Beautiful. Just beautiful. I must ask two things however. My first being is that turntable floating?? :O My second being is if the featured wooden shelves are all DIY? I'm sure that question has been asked before as well. LOL.


 
 Yes the turntable is almost floating. analogsurvivor has me worried about vibration, from being close to my speakers so I am slowly training my TT to float.
 I hope to remove one more foot by Christmas! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The shelving are actually modular wood boxes from a company in California. They sell nesting sets of six "Mix Boxes" in plywood or solid maple that you can arrange as you like.
 http://theutilitycollective.com/index.html


----------



## parbaked

analogsurviver said:


> Spendor is kind of dark horse - always there, always good, but other manufacturers seem to be able to outdo them at chickensquaking. I wish I got Spendor BC1 instead of Rogers LS3/5a back then - but although (almost?) all birds lay eggs, we consume (mainly) chicken eggs - cococoDaAAAAK !
> 
> Did not know Spendor did a "sequel" to the LS3/5a; how would you describe your observation of S3/5 being superiour to the LS3/5a ?


 
 Yes Spendor and Harbeth have interesting history shaped by their times. Both were started by ex-BBC engineers (Spencer Hughes & Dudley Harwood) that worked on the original Kingswood Warren LS3/5a. Each left BBC to form speaker companies - with their wives - Spencer + Dorthy = Spendor; Harwood + Beth = Harbeth.
 Both companies made versions of the various BBC monitors. When KEF stopped making the LS3/5a drivers, both made their own versions (Spendor S3/5 & Harbeth P-3), which were not BBC licensed  as replacements. By 2001, both founders had sold out to different operators, which shaped the history of each company...
  
 I probably should not have said "better" but instead said an "equally enjoyable" alternative to the LS3/5a.
 The modern Spendors and Harbeths and Stirlings give a similar experience without some of the limitations.
 1. They can play louder before they break up.
 2. Tweeter is less nasal than the old KEF units. These OEM KEF drivers were "average" without the right crossover AND cabinets.
 3. The cabinets are sealed better. The LS3/5a tend to eventually leak around the screw-in baffles, which affects how the bass unit drives.
  
 I am really NOT bashing the LS3/5a at all. I lived with them for 20+ years and thought I'd keep them forever - but I am enjoying the newer Spendors even more...


----------



## parbaked

analogsurviver said:


> I wish I got Spendor BC1 instead of Rogers LS3/5a back then - but although (almost?) all birds lay eggs, we consume (mainly) chicken eggs - cococoDaAAAAK !


 
  
 Yeah the Spendors are better but the Spendors cost 50% more then and are "worth" 50% of the LS3/5a now.
 That was really my point about selling the LS3/5a. With proceeds one can buy BC-1 7 S3/5 & a nice TT and receiver and have so much fun!
 My original plan was to get a Decware SET and Omega single driver set-up, with 1/2 the proceeds, but I liked the Pioneer SA-7100 so much that I went another direction...
  
 If I had Skylab's basement, I'd want a pair of BC-1 - with studio stands on wheels! 
 Pioneer SX-1250 with an good FM antenna and you could come by and donate a TT!
 My father still has his Rogers LS5/9 on wood stands - eerily good as well! 
  
 These BC-1 are local...tempted but no room...
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171150694736?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## Skylab

parbaked said:


> I meant to ask how you were enjoying your Spendors, when I saw the pics you posted of your little Infinities.
> How do they compare (or should we move this to another thread?).




They are totally different animals, other than both being excellent small speakers. The infinitesimals are more capable of some of the audiophile tricks like detail retrieval and imaging, and have slightly deeper bass. They will also play louder than the LS3/5A. But the Spendors do have that magic that they are so famous for.


----------



## claybum

Hmmm...I have not heard of these small speakers you folks are talking about. Might have to do some research. I have some B & W matrix 805 in my office and I quite like them. I had them hooked up to my kenwood ka907 or ka8100. I was thinking about selling my Marantz 2285b so I hooked it up to see how it was functioning and to my surprise, the Marantz has great synergy with the B & W. A true rock and roll setup!!!


----------



## analogsurviver

claybum said:


> Hmmm...I have not heard of these small speakers you folks are talking about. Might have to do some research. I have some B & W matrix 805 in my office and I quite like them. I had them hooked up to my kenwood ka907 or ka8100. I was thinking about selling my Marantz 2285b so I hooked it up to see how it was functioning and to my surprise, the Marantz has great synergy with the B & W. A true rock and roll setup!!!


 
 Poison is in small bottles (enclosures) ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## wotts

I found an SX-1980 on the local craigslist last week and picked it up Friday. It's pretty amazing!
  

  

  
 I've got it running a pair of S-1010s and HPM-100s right now. Sounds great.


----------



## parbaked

wotts said:


> I found an SX-1980 on the local craigslist last week and picked it up Friday. It's pretty amazing!
> 
> 
> Sounds great.


 
 It looks like it is squashing your Marantz in more ways than one!


----------



## wotts

I'd wager it weighs twice the Marantz. I really want a beefier shelf now. The VTi is a little wobbly.


----------



## kstuart

Awesome find ! (that 1980 on craigslist)
  
 The *Rega* stuff is exceptional.  Back in the day, before they were imported to the US, I went on a trip to London, and brought a Rega arm back on the plane with me.   I used it with an AR turntable for many years (until I finally got tired of vinyl a few years ago, in favor of asynchronous USB DACs).
  
 That replaced a Pioneer PL-12D, which IMHO is the best of the Japanese brand turntables.  For me, no belt = no turntable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 IIRC, the HiFiMan owner/designer is a fan of Spendor speakers....


----------



## jesh462

Hey guys. I found this thread and have been thinking of picking up a vintage amp to go with my headphones.
 I own the Fischer Audio FA-011. If you are not familiar with it, here is a link.
  
 It is a fun headphone with a V signature, however the bass doesn't overpower anything, and the soundstage is wide and detailed. It also has a somewhat large impedance. In the thread, the common consensus is the best results tend to come from tube amps. I don't want to deal with that. I'd like a warm sounding solid state amp that makes the FA-011 a little less discerning and emphasizes its musical qualities.
  
 I've read a few dozen pages of this thread and have narrowed my vintage amp selection down to a SanSui AU 317 or higher. The problem is that there is nothing available close to me. Ebay has a few listings, but none of them overly cheap.
  
  
This one is a 317 199+49 shipping and looks to be in great shape, but it hasn't been restored at all.
  
This one is a 717 for 249+34 shipping. It's in questionable condition, the owner has no idea how to test it except to turn it on.
  
This one is a 317 for 265 and free shipping that has been fully reconditioned.
  
 Besides the hazards of buying off ebay in general, I haven't entirely given up on dedicated headphone amps. My headphones are capable of sounding incredibly good with the right amplifier, and so this purchase isn't something that I want to do over again at a later date. I want something that makes my mids sound better, smooths out harshness in my treble and accurately reproduces the sub bass they are capable of without reducing the great soundstage. I guess I am not entirely convinced that a vintage amp can be the end-all for my headphones, especially since I haven't seen anything I want go for cheap.
  
 With that being said I could buy a pre-assembled AMB M^3 for $375 or an Asgard II from Schiit for $250. I'm sure there are other options that I haven't discovered that are comparable.
 Do you guys have any input on my situation? I would really appreciate it.


----------



## Jobobee

I have a 1983 Audiolab 8000A, but it's broken now .


----------



## Skylab

wotts said:


> I found an SX-1980 on the local craigslist last week and picked it up Friday. It's pretty amazing!
> 
> I've got it running a pair of S-1010s and HPM-100s right now. Sounds great.




Congrats Tim! That's awesome that you found one locally. Welcome to the club


----------



## wotts

kstuart said:


> *Awesome find ! (that 1980 on craigslist)*
> 
> The *Rega* stuff is exceptional.  Back in the day, before they were imported to the US, I went on a trip to London, and brought a Rega arm back on the plane with me.   I used it with an AR turntable for many years (until I finally got tired of vinyl a few years ago, in favor of asynchronous USB DACs).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you! I was pretty stoked. I have been wanting to post about it, but I wanted to make sure it was hooked up first.
  


skylab said:


> Congrats Tim! That's awesome that you found one locally. Welcome to the club


 
  
 Thanks Rob! After I saw your 1980, I had to have one. Lucky for me it popped up! I might pick up the 9090DB he has as well. I really don't need it...
  
  


jesh462 said:


> Hey guys. I found this thread and have been thinking of picking up a vintage amp to go with my headphones.
> I own the Fischer Audio FA-011. If you are not familiar with it, here is a link.
> 
> It is a fun headphone with a V signature, however the bass doesn't overpower anything, and the soundstage is wide and detailed. It also has a somewhat large impedance. In the thread, the common consensus is the best results tend to come from tube amps. I don't want to deal with that. I'd like a warm sounding solid state amp that makes the FA-011 a little less discerning and emphasizes its musical qualities.
> ...


 
  
  
 I've almost completly moved away from dedicated headamps. I am only keeping the Mjolnir (for the HE-6 at the computer) and the custom OTL (for the T1). I really like how all of my cans sound with big vintage iron (that reminds me I need to hook the HE-6 to the 1980). I don't think I would buy off eBay unless it was a recommended seller by of of the folks here. All of mine I found on CL, but I check it ALL DAY EVERYDAY.
  
 That being said, I really liked each amp I owned. I am about to list my Valhalla and Crack, but really don't want to get rid of either, depsite not using them. I may be a bit of a Schiit-head, but I haven't heard one of their amps I didn't like. For $250, you can't go wrong with the Asgard. I have the AMB b22 as well, but it hasn't been powered on since the last head-fi meet I went to. I'm not sure how it compares to the M^3 though.


----------



## Meewoo

@wotts,
  
 Big congrats for your Pioneer SX-1980!!


----------



## Silent One

meewoo said:


> @wotts,
> 
> Big congrats for your Pioneer SX-1980!!


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


>




Ditto


----------



## wotts

Thanks guys. Here's a few glowy shots:


----------



## Silent One

Looks just like 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





a Candy Boutique _after hours..._


----------



## jesh462

Good to know wotts, thanks for taking the time to reply.   =)
 Anybody else have an opinion?
  
 Quote:


wotts said:


> I've almost completly moved away from dedicated headamps. I am only keeping the Mjolnir (for the HE-6 at the computer) and the custom OTL (for the T1). I really like how all of my cans sound with big vintage iron (that reminds me I need to hook the HE-6 to the 1980). I don't think I would buy off eBay unless it was a recommended seller by of of the folks here. All of mine I found on CL, but I check it ALL DAY EVERYDAY.
> 
> That being said, I really liked each amp I owned. I am about to list my Valhalla and Crack, but really don't want to get rid of either, depsite not using them. I may be a bit of a Schiit-head, but I haven't heard one of their amps I didn't like. For $250, you can't go wrong with the Asgard. I have the AMB b22 as well, but it hasn't been powered on since the last head-fi meet I went to. I'm not sure how it compares to the M^3 though.


----------



## ssrock64

wotts said:


>


 
 Are the small buttons on those two units the same?


----------



## captouch

jesh462 said:


> Hey guys. I found this thread and have been thinking of picking up a vintage amp to go with my headphones.
> I own the Fischer Audio FA-011. If you are not familiar with it, here is a link.
> 
> It is a fun headphone with a V signature, however the bass doesn't overpower anything, and the soundstage is wide and detailed. It also has a somewhat large impedance. In the thread, the common consensus is the best results tend to come from tube amps. I don't want to deal with that. I'd like a warm sounding solid state amp that makes the FA-011 a little less discerning and emphasizes its musical qualities.
> ...




If you're not a DIY'er who can solder and replace components, I wouldn't consider that particular 717. Out of the two 317's, I'd consider the recapped one as the cost/effort of recapping well worth the delta between the two units. 50W could also power most speakers at reasonable volume, so you have the option of either HP's or speakers, which is nice even if you're not thinking about full size speakers now. 

Sansuis are known for having warner sound, but that series is a bit later in the 70's line and it won't be as 'tube-like' as the earlier models. But more neutrality isn't a bad thing - it's probably still on the warmer side of totally neutral.

I think it's a fair/reasonable price given what's been done to it, and I'd rather have that than an Asgard or other dedicated HP amp at the same price.

Good luck!


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Wotts on the 1980. It's really great you managed to score one locally. I'll probably never find something like that in my area.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Congrats Wotts on the 1980. It's really great you managed to score one locally. I'll probably never find something like that in my area.


 
  
 If one pops up locally here, I'll alert you..._ first. _


----------



## wotts

ssrock64 said:


> Are the small buttons on those two units the same?




The little push buttons? Yes, they are the same size. I hadn't noticed that before.


----------



## wotts

moodyrn said:


> Congrats Wotts on the 1980. It's really great you managed to score one locally. I'll probably never find something like that in my area.




Well, I'll explain how this worked. I picked up the speakers from Rob and he let me check out his basement rig. I immediately thought, I have to have one. A week later, one popped up on CL. So, go listen to a 1980 and then look. 

The seller said he was getting calls from all over the US. While I was at his house, two people called. I was really lucky.


----------



## Mach-X

Late to the party...father in law bought this brand new in 1978...the year I was born! That makes me the proud 2nd owner....yes that's an original Zune 30 connected as source...


----------



## palmfish

A "vintage" Zune! Nice touch...


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> Well, I'll explain how this worked. I picked up the speakers from Rob and he let me check out his basement rig. I immediately thought, I have to have one. A week later, one popped up on CL. So, go listen to a 1980 and then look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 




 Audio karma?


----------



## LugBug1

wotts said:


> I found an SX-1980 on the local craigslist last week and picked it up Friday. It's pretty amazing!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 wotts this? SX1980? Congrats!! Absolutely beautiful.
  


mach-x said:


> Late to the party...father in law bought this brand new in 1978...the year I was born! That makes me the proud 2nd owner....yes that's an original Zune 30 connected as source...


 
 I love the look of that Sony, I've nearly snapped one up a few times. just based on looks!


----------



## Mach-X

palmfish said:


> A "vintage" Zune! Nice touch...



Yea, just got it actually, aside from the 7 year old battery not holding a charge like she used to, works perfectly and looks more 'serious audio' than an ipod.


----------



## harrinj

finally I found a Kenwood KR-9600! I want to get it so bad! I need to find a KA-8100/9100 too


----------



## Silent One

Never too early for lust... what's lunch got to do with it?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Hope you get the Kenny!


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> Never too early for lust... what's lunch got to do with it?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It inspired me to get out my KR-7400 and hook it up and my god these He-500 headphones are so alive with the 7400!!! the BEST of all my amps. the soundstage is utterly amazing. Surprisingly the most dull is my HK 430 followed by HK 670 with these headphones. 

 Problem is my KR-7400 buzzes (not through the speakers but from the unit itself) 

 Yeah I am trying to figure out how to get the KR-9600. It's even got the handles on it.


----------



## jwdjwd67

I love my Pioneer SX-650 for sonic and sentimental reasons, but I would love to find a reasonably priced power amp (with heaphone jack obviously) or Receiver with Main-Out/ Pre-Ins to use my Tube Headphone/Preamp with. Any recommendations on a good sounding budget-minded vintage piece that would fit the bill. I will be using it mostly with a pair of AKG Q 701's.Thanks!
 jeff


----------



## kstuart

> Originally Posted by *jesh462* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> This one is a 317 199+49 shipping and looks to be in great shape, but it hasn't been restored at all.
> 
> ...


 
 I did not answer previously since I have never heard your headphones.  However, I'll now point out that the last one that you listed, the 317 which is "reconditioned" is offered by the same guy whom I bought my 417 from.  He changes all the capacitors that might need changing and then adjust the unit.  The result is something that - in theory - should sound like it sounded 30 years ago - although other parts (transistors) may have subtly aged and affected the sound, so there is no way to tell for sure, since none of us have accurate 30 year audio memories. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, that third one is the best value, because it would cost a couple hundred dollars or more to get that work done.  And the guy is safe to buy from, in fact, my 417 arrived with a broken solder joint due to the shipping, and he had me ship it back to him, he fixed the solder joint, and sent it back to me.
  
 PS  While looking at your links, I just noticed a serviced (not the same as reconditioned) 717 for $370 (a good price for that unit - some consider it the best Sansui) at:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sansui-AU-717-Integrated-Amplifier-Serviced-and-Tested/161126013494
  
 Note that I can only vouch for the "billsfan" guy, although the 717 sellers both look reliable at first glance...


----------



## kstuart

jwdjwd67 said:


> I love my Pioneer SX-650 for sonic and sentimental reasons, but I would love to find a reasonably priced power amp (with heaphone jack obviously) or Receiver with Main-Out/ Pre-Ins to use my Tube Headphone/Preamp with. Any recommendations on a good sounding budget-minded vintage piece that would fit the bill. I will be using it mostly with a pair of AKG Q 701's.Thanks!
> jeff


 

 When you say "budget-minded" - what is your budget ? And which Tube preamp ?


----------



## Mach-X

My god some of those prices are dear, I only gave my father in law a case of beer for that Sony rig...did I get a good deal?


----------



## PhoenixG

harrinj said:


> finally I found a Kenwood KR-9600! I want to get it so bad! I need to find a KA-8100/9100 too


 
 I had one of those. A real brute! Very beautiful also!


----------



## palmfish

mach-x said:


> My god some of those prices are dear, I only gave my father in law a case of beer for that Sony rig...did I get a good deal?




Depends...

What kind of beer was it?


----------



## Mach-X

palmfish said:


> Depends...
> 
> What kind of beer was it?


 
 Bud Light. Won't drink anything else unless he's already had a few lol.


----------



## palmfish

mach-x said:


> Bud Light. Won't drink anything else unless he's already had a few lol.


 

 In that case, you got a good deal.


----------



## Mach-X

I'm a younger guy of the digital age, but I love analog tuners and VU meters. Pretty sure they are real metal knobs, not the coated plastic ones.


----------



## Skylab

Mach-X that Sony rig is nice looking!

Here is my newest toy


----------



## wotts

Looks sharp!


----------



## kstuart

Cool, I've used one of those, amongst my favorite reel-to-reels !


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! Indeed it's a sweet sounding deck with great mechanics.


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Thanks! Indeed it's a sweet sounding deck with great mechanics.


 
  
 ReVox... talk about a walk-off homer!


----------



## Silent One

Quote: 





harrinj said:


> It inspired me to get out my KR-7400 and hook it up and my god these He-500 headphones are so alive with the 7400!!! the BEST of all my amps. the soundstage is utterly amazing. Surprisingly the most dull is my HK 430 followed by HK 670 with these headphones.
> 
> Problem is my KR-7400 buzzes (not through the speakers but from the unit itself)
> 
> Yeah I am trying to figure out how to get the KR-9600. It's even got the handles on it.


 
  
 Pix still to come? Don't worry, I got the Rabbit Ears, absolutely no funds to steal the deal buy it from under you.


----------



## jwdjwd67

kstuart said:


> When you say "budget-minded" - what is your budget ? And which Tube preamp ?


 
 The Tube Headphone/ Pre-amp is the Mapletree Audio Design Ear 4 and would be nice to come in under $300 for something reliable and ready to play. A big jump from the $35 I paid for the Pioneer. 
  
 Thanks for the response.
 Regards
 Jeff


----------



## Mach-X

Oh man I have always wanted a nice reel to reel, but they aren't exactly yard sale fodder, and the tapes are even more impossible to get a hold of mint. Probably not appropriate for my family friendly budget.


----------



## LugBug1

skylab said:


> Mach-X that Sony rig is nice looking!
> 
> Here is my newest toy


 
 This is worth seeing again me thinks! Reel nice!


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> This is worth seeing again me thinks! Reel nice!


 
 That is very nice indeed. What is a good place/resource to start for someone wanting to get into reels? Is source material abundant and reasonable in price still? Sorry if it's OT, I'll gladly go to another thread if there is an active one on the topic.


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> That is very nice indeed. What is a good place/resource to start for someone wanting to get into reels? Is source material abundant and reasonable in price still? Sorry if it's OT, I'll gladly go to another thread if there is an active one on the topic.


 
 Hey there, it's not off topic at all. Reel to reel's are vintage equipment and there are a few collectors on here... Unfortunately I'm not one of them  Regarding the buying of the machines I would keep checking Craig's list and Ebay. Also the tapes can be found on Ebay too. Though I've no idea how abundant they may be these days. 
  
 Skylab is the dude to ask


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> Hey there, it's not off topic at all. Reel to reel's are vintage equipment and there are a few collectors on here... Unfortunately I'm not one of them  Regarding the buying of the machines I would keep checking Craig's list and Ebay. Also the tapes can be found on Ebay too. Though I've no idea how abundant they may be these days.
> 
> Skylab is the dude to ask


 
 Thanks LugBug1


----------



## palmfish

Im interested in knowing how much of the NOS magnetic tape is still good after all these years. We're talking about 40+ years of sitting who knows where. Or are there companies still making it?

Beautiful eye candy, no doubt, and I have flirted with buying a reel-to-reel deck off and on for the past few years, but lack of space, utility, and media (and fidelity) have prevailed over nostalgia.


----------



## analogsurviver

Reel to reel is not for home - unless you have money to burn.
  
 Let me elabotate. Tape is hard to get - and it usually costsa MUCH more per the same lenght of time than anything else. Pre recorded tapes had issues all their own - and are now some 30 or so years old. Which means R2R is only really suitable for master recording.
  
 #2 - I absolutely HATE Revox - with passion! These guys rode on their laurels, Made In Switzerland, etc, etc, - till they produced B77. Mechanics are great - but electronics are build with parts one is likely to find in gear MANY "classes" lower than supposed-to-be-state-of-the-art which Revox name is commonly associated with.
  
 Want proof ? Google Revox modifications - and sooner or later you will find a guy from Switzerland that will - for a substantial fee, consummerate with the costs associated with _Schweizerische Handarbeit_ - turn your Revox in something it should have been in the first place. 
 Essentially, he is doing much the same thing as myself with vintage electronics. I do not know or either care how a vintage piece of gear restored only to factory spec sounds. Life is too short for that.
  
 For home, the only source good enough to record on such a machine is live FM broadcast *IN ANALOG ( getting rarer every day ) *- using similarly modified top tuner, needless to say with a good FM antenna mounted on an antenna rotator. 
  
 Start counting coins ...


----------



## brunk

analogsurviver said:


> Reel to reel is not for home - unless you have money to burn.
> 
> Let me elabotate. Tape is hard to get - and it usually costsa MUCH more per the same lenght of time than anything else. Pre recorded tapes had issues all their own - and are now some 30 or so years old. Which means R2R is only really suitable for master recording.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm thanks for all that info. I'll just have to take your word for it and step aside before i make irrational uneducated purchases. Thanks Analogsurvivor.


----------



## analogsurviver

brunk said:


> Hmm thanks for all that info. I'll just have to take your word for it and step aside before i make irrational uneducated purchases. Thanks Analogsurvivor.


 
 No problem. 
  
 I certainly do not want to say R2R is bad. On the contrary, it still IS the second best recording medium, after direct to disc LP. But it does come with a hefty price tag attached.
  
 IF - and that is *BIG* IF - I would consider R2R, it would be Technics RS 1500 or 1700. The mechanics ( wow & flutter ) is second to none. That is why you are likely to see modded Technics R2Rs ( Tim DeParavicini, among others ) at audio fairs, where they usually drive anything else into the ground. 
  
 It must be similar to running high performance vintage cars. I stopped watching TV years ago, but do remember guys on Discovery channel turning a Mustang found rotting in some barn into the sexiest thing on four wheels imaginable. With lots of $$$ - set of new tires or gasoline bills have to be invisible to guys splashing that much on their rides... That rotting Mustang must be a scant percentage of the total cost of the finally resulting vehicle.


----------



## brunk

analogsurviver said:


> No problem.
> 
> I certainly do not want to say R2R is bad. On the contrary, it still IS the second best recording medium, after direct to disc LP. But it does come with a hefty price tag attached.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah there is a definite immense satisfaction in making/restoring things with your own hands. Totally understand it


----------



## LugBug1

@brunk, Why not instead treat yourself to a nice vintage receiver or integrate. Believe me there is a lot of pleasure to be had in buying a bargain and then cleaning it up yourself. I've bought a couple of amps that clearly hadn't been touched for decades, but underneath the dust and dirt they can be made to look and sound - as good as new. It can be very rewarding and it kinda makes your hifi more personal, as you were the one to bring it back to life. These old machines don't sound too bad either


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> @brunk, Why not instead treat yourself to a nice vintage receiver or integrate. Believe me there is a lot of pleasure to be had in buying a bargain and then cleaning it up yourself. I've bought a couple of amps that clearly hadn't been touched for decades, but underneath the dust and dirt they can be made to look and sound - as good as new. It can be very rewarding and it kinda makes your hifi more personal, as you were the one to bring it back to life. These old machines don't sound too bad either


 
 Yes I definitely plan to restore one myself  sometime! I would do it now, but I currently own this beauty (black version) from Yamaha that has a nice vintage look. 

  
 I am also almost done with my back loaded horn project! Here's a pic of a box I just sealed up today and need to finish with some additional coats of Tung Oil. Apologies for the low lighting and quality, was taken with my phone and ceiling light off. The second pic is a rough estimate of what it will look like once complete (different driver, but same tweeter included). I can't wait!


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> @brunk, Why not instead treat yourself to a nice vintage receiver or integrate. Believe me there is a lot of pleasure to be had in buying a bargain and then cleaning it up yourself. I've bought a couple of amps that clearly hadn't been touched for decades, but underneath the dust and dirt they can be made to look and sound - as good as new. It can be very rewarding and it kinda makes your hifi more personal, as you were the one to bring it back to life. These old machines don't sound too bad either


 
 Sorry, NO 30+ years old electronics is likely to perform as when it was new - let alone to the top performance level at least some designs are capable of if and when fitted with high enough quality parts.
  
 Ask US airmen how they felt after testing captured latest Japanese aircraft after the end of WW2 back in the USA - fed with the proper high octane kerosene. If the  Japanese had enough oil to produce the kerosene with the required octane number ... - but they were forced to settle for less octanes and more gallons by the shortage of oil.
  
 Still, good vintage gear, even if left untouched, usually does give any current production a fair run for the money and is best bang for the buck. Specially if you can refurbish it yourself - it is great source of satisfaction.


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> Yes I definitely plan to restore one myself  sometime! I would do it now, but I currently own this beauty (black version) from Yamaha that has a nice vintage look.
> 
> 
> I am also almost done with my back loaded horn project! Here's a pic of a box I just sealed up today and need to finish with some additional coats of Tung Oil. Apologies for the low lighting and quality, was taken with my phone and ceiling light off. The second pic is a rough estimate of what it will look like once complete (different driver, but same tweeter included). I can't wait!


 
 Yeah thats a lovely Yam! And nice work on the speakers, looking very smart indeed.


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> Yeah thats a lovely Yam! And nice work on the speakers, looking very smart indeed.


 
 Thanks!


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> *Sorry, NO 30+ years old electronics is likely to perform as when it was new* - let alone to the top performance level at least some designs are capable of if and when fitted with high enough quality parts.
> 
> Ask US airmen how they felt after testing captured latest Japanese aircraft after the end of WW2 back in the USA - fed with the proper high octane kerosene. If the  Japanese had enough oil to produce the kerosene with the required octane number ... - but they were forced to settle for less octanes and more gallons by the shortage of oil.
> 
> Still, good vintage gear, even if left untouched, usually does give any current production a fair run for the money and is best bang for the buck. Specially if you can refurbish it yourself - it is great source of satisfaction.


 
 Yeah, I meant it as a matter speech  But I'd also argue that if an amp has been in storage for 30 years... It may well sound the same as when it was put in storage, depending on where it was stored? 30 years may seem like a long time, but I would imagine it would take many life times for the soldering, resistors etc to deteriorate without use. I've never read of capacitors leaking also without use. A car that has been wrapped up in a dry garage for thirty years could theoretically be cleaned up as good as new too. Maybe a change of tyres would be in order! 
  
 My 551 is in such time-warp condition and it sounds as good as new to me


----------



## palmfish

analogsurviver said:


> Ask US airmen how they felt after testing captured latest Japanese aircraft after the end of WW2 back in the USA - fed with the proper high octane kerosene. If the  Japanese had enough oil to produce the kerosene with the required octane number ... - but they were forced to settle for less octanes and more gallons by the shortage of oil.




I didnt know the Japanese had a turbine/jet engined airplane at the end of the war.

I haven't heard the term "octane" used with reference to jet fuel either. OTOH, I have also never flown a WWII vintage airplane.


----------



## Skylab

lugbug1 said:


> This is worth seeing again me thinks! Reel nice!




Thanks man - here is one more shot! This deck came to me for the first time yesterday but I am loving it 









silent one said:


> ReVox... talk about a walk-off homer!




Thanks SO!!!! Really digging it 




brunk said:


> That is very nice indeed. What is a good place/resource to start for someone wanting to get into reels? Is source material abundant and reasonable in price still? Sorry if it's OT, I'll gladly go to another thread if there is an active one on the topic.




Just to provide a different opinion than was already presented here, you CAN get into reel to reel without spending a fortune IF you approach it from the right way. You can buy one of the super - reliable consumer decks like a Pioneer RT-707 and hunt for pre-recorded reels on eBay without spending more than a few hundred dollars total. This is not a "perfectionist" approach but rather a hobbyist one. 

Lots of great info on AudioKarma if you have more interest.


----------



## brunk

skylab said:


> Just to provide a different opinion than was already presented here, you CAN get into reel to reel without spending a fortune IF you approach it from the right way. You can buy one of the super - reliable consumer decks like a Pioneer RT-707 and hunt for pre-recorded reels on eBay without spending more than a few hundred dollars total. This is not a "perfectionist" approach but rather a hobbyist one.
> 
> Lots of great info on AudioKarma if you have more interest.


 
 Thanks Skylab, that still keeps the hope alive. I can settle with a hobbyist approach as I have enough digital and vinyl source material to last me a lifetime lol.


----------



## Trav

brunk said:


> Yes I definitely plan to restore one myself  sometime! I would do it now, but I currently own this beauty (black version) from Yamaha that has a nice vintage look.
> 
> 
> 
> I am also almost done with my back loaded horn project! Here's a pic of a box I just sealed up today and need to finish with some additional coats of Tung Oil. Apologies for the low lighting and quality, was taken with my phone and ceiling light off. The second pic is a rough estimate of what it will look like once complete (different driver, but same tweeter included). I can't wait!


Which driver is that? I'm eventually going to build a Dallas II Horn when time allows. BTW nice work!


----------



## brunk

trav said:


> Which driver is that? I'm eventually going to build a Dallas II Horn when time allows. BTW nice work!


 
 That particular driver is the 6.5in Fostex FF165K. Mine will be the 8in. FE206En, which is arguably the best full range driver Fostex makes, much better bass response. Thanks! I'm no woodworker, but I do what i can with what i have. If you have the skills/tools for a Dallas II, I would recommend doing a Chang, or Half Chang build.


----------



## Trav

I have wondered what the Mark audio 8" inch drivers would do in a similar enclosure? I see you have the super tweeter which IMO opens up the Fostex signature.


----------



## Shmitty




----------



## Oregonian

shmitty said:


>




Nice, well done on the photo and great amp. Is that the KA-7100?


----------



## Trav

Mike Fremer really has me contemplating grabbing another turntable and revisiting an era that brought me into music many moons ago. Any insight?


----------



## brunk

trav said:


> Mike Fremer really has me contemplating grabbing another turntable and revisiting an era that brought me into music many moons ago. Any insight?


 
 Go for it! The least you'll get out of it is a nostalgic trip down memory lane, I think that alone would be worth it  Ooh, do you still have your stash packed away somewhere? I love the smell of old vinyl lol.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Nice, well done on the photo and great amp. Is that the KA-7100?


 
 that's the KA-8100! I wish I could find one and a 9100


----------



## harrinj

The KR-9600 I wanted vanished from craigslist. AHHHHHHHHHH! :/


----------



## Silent One

It only came up missing during the time you elected to post here first. Next time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 go get it!


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> It only came up missing during the time you elected to post here first. Next time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I didn't say where it even was.


----------



## parbaked

Your profile tells all!


----------



## Silent One

My words were meant to share your pain and encourage.


----------



## Shmitty

Ya'll are close it's a KA-7300 http://www.thevintageknob.org/kenwood-KA-7300.html fairly rare. They are somewhat undesirable because of parts issues but I've picked up a spare just to be safe. If anyone is interested do a search for echowars and ka7300 its a good read. 


oregonian said:


> shmitty said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


----------



## claybum

More Kenwood love
  

  
 My first barter town purchase. Kenwood model 600 with complete recap by Echo Wars, the local Audio Karma Kenwood guru.
  
 It cost some $$$, but I'm already in love. Best amp I own!


----------



## Oregonian

claybum said:


> More Kenwood love
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very nice........welcome to the Oregon Kenwood club.


----------



## Meewoo

shmitty said:


> Ya'll are close it's a KA-7300 http://www.thevintageknob.org/kenwood-KA-7300.html fairly rare. They are somewhat undesirable because of parts issues but I've picked up a spare just to be safe. If anyone is interested do a search for echowars and ka7300 its a good read.


 
  
 Haha, Ka-7300 definitely rarer than Ka-7100, and it's only dual mono design in Ka-x300 line. His big brother Ka-8300 doesn't have dual transformer. He is more like late KA-8100 and 9100 (same output pack as 8100), really nice sounding amp. Someone Akers prefer KA-9100 (or 8100 or KA-7300 ) to Model 500 (600) or KA-917, which I partially agree (I own 7300, 500 and 917).
  


claybum said:


> More Kenwood love
> My first barter town purchase. Kenwood model 600 with complete recap by Echo Wars, the local Audio Karma Kenwood guru.
> 
> It cost some $$$, but I'm already in love. Best amp I own!


 
  
 Nice!! congrats!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Are you going to have your KA-917 recapped?
 I know it's not fair to compare no-recapped 917 to 600, but how do you compare the tones of these 2?


----------



## dogwan

oregonian said:


> Very nice........welcome to the Oregon Kenwood club.


 
  
 Does my KT-8300 tuner get me in?


----------



## Mach-X

Those are jaw dropping, make my Sony look amateur lol. Sad how Kenwood have fallen, I still have the kra-5070 I bought new as a teen in 94...rated for 100wpc good for 120...those were the days...


----------



## claybum

Meewoo said:
			
		

> Nice!! congrats!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Actually, the KA 907 is recapped. The ebay seller I purchased it from did the work himself. I have no idea of his skills or the quality of his work, but the amp sounds real nice. However, I have to give the nod to the 600. It's quite excellent. Both are pretty neutral, detailed and dynamic. The 600 punches harder. It's more transparent and I hear the textures of the instruments like no other amp I have. 
  
 Even though both amps have been recapped, it still might not be a fair comparison given they were worked on by different  people. Echo Wars over at AK has a great reputation.


----------



## Oregonian

dogwan said:


> Does my KT-8300 tuner get me in?




Very nice! What's that at the bottom with the meters? 

Good to see yet another Oregon guy!


----------



## parbaked

oregonian said:


> Very nice! What's that at the bottom with the meters?
> 
> Good to see yet another Oregon guy!


 
 That's a sweet little Hitachi amp - nice!
 Deserves a prettier tuner (sorry club Kenwood/Oregon)...
  
 Styling reminds me of this vintage Hitachi receiver/turntable combo:


----------



## HIFIdmac

So I'm looking to make a splash with Mr. Speaker's Alpha Dogs, and likely the Bifrost DAC..
  
 But the amp, I was looking to maybe power speakers one day, and while the Emotiva Mini-X is my first choice right now, I'm debating going vintage.
  
 There's a Kenwood KR-9600, SONY STR-6120, and Marantz 2235 all for sale near me. Aesthetically, I love the look of the Sony.
  
 Any input on the sound the headphone out will produce versus the Mini-X or say an Asgard 2?
  
 I'll probably go listen, but are those three decent receivers in this boards' eyes?


----------



## Skylab

claybum said:


> More Kenwood love
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 BIG congrats! Man I cannot tell you how many times I looked at that listing and almost bought that amp even though I absolutely don't need it.  VERY nice piece!!!


----------



## ladavid

I have a very nice modded Heathkit AA-151 - which is an early 1960's vintage integrated amp that runs el84's in triode mode for 8 watts per channel of power.  I actually have it up for sale to use the proceeds for a headphone amp but got to thinking if I could somehow run headphones out of my speaker connections - well I love the sound of this amp with high efficiency speakers like zus.  I have been looking through various threads here but can't really find much information about commercially available products that would allow me to turn my speaker amp into a headphone amp ( there is no headphone connection and I am not diy'er at least where amps and power are concerned).


----------



## brunk

ladavid said:


> I have a very nice modded Heathkit AA-151 - which is an early 1960's vintage integrated amp that runs el84's in triode mode for 8 watts per channel of power.  I actually have it up for sale to use the proceeds for a headphone amp but got to thinking if I could somehow run headphones out of my speaker connections - well I love the sound of this amp with high efficiency speakers like zus.  I have been looking through various threads here but can't really find much information about commercially available products that would allow me to turn my speaker amp into a headphone amp ( there is no headphone connection and I am not diy'er at least where amps and power are concerned).


 
 you have two commercially available options that i know of
  
http://hifiman.com/Products/?pid=104
  
http://vinylflat.com/canopener.html


----------



## kstuart

I would post a question at AudioKarma forums, before I would hook up headphones to a tube amp that does not have a headphone jack (even if you were to use an adapter like those suggested above).  There will definitely be someone there who knows exactly what is best to do...


----------



## claybum

Skylab....Thanks for the congrats. I'm quite happy I became a AK subscriber. My education continues and barter is awesome.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
  
  
 ladavid....Your Heathkit AA-151 screams early 60's retro. I love how it looks.
  
  
 I love all the silver faced Kenwood people are posting. Some might think these units look plain but in person, a clean silver faced Kenwood is a thing of beauty.


----------



## MattTCG

I ran into a few interesting items today in Knoxville TN. The receiver in the first pics I now own.


----------



## DemonFox

Does anyone have any experience with Vintage Panasonic amps?? Found one local for only $60 that looks to be in great shape. 
  
 RA-6600 with built in 8-track player which is awesome!! 
  
 I think it has 40 watts per channel but I could be wrong
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> I ran into a few interesting items today in Knoxville TN. The receiver in the first pics I now own.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Looks like a nice project. The dustier the better  What's the scoop with the last pic, the one with the KT88 in it.


----------



## Shmitty

claybum said:


> More Kenwood love
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
guessing you got that off of Nick which is the same place I got my 7300 he tried to talk me into the 600 but I just couldn't justify it.


----------



## DemonFox

And a follow up, what would be a fair price for a minty Pioneer SX-850? Seen prices range from $150 to $350 Whats a more realistic price?
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## claybum

shmitty said:


> guessing you got that off of Nick which is the same place I got my 7300 he tried to talk me into the 600 but I just couldn't justify it.


 
  
  
 Actually got it off AK member yggdrasill (seattle area)
  
 Your 7300 looks great, Don't see many of those around and I bet it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> I ran into a few interesting items today in Knoxville TN. The receiver in the first pics I now own.




Care to share what it/they are for those of us who can't quite tell?


----------



## ladavid

Been talking to John at Vinylflat today about the Canopener.  Says my amp should be a good match for the canopener - I checked that my speaker connections had a common ground.  Also read some reviews here at Head-Fi - sounds like a good product for relatively few dollars leaving me more money for new headphones.  Appreciate the pointer to this product.


----------



## MattTCG

I decided that I liked the sx1050 enough to get a restoration done. So today I drove to Knoxville TN to drop off the 1050 with Terry Dewick who is somewhat reknowned for his vintage restorations. The other photos are the other restorations he is working on. They are all Mac's, very early. 
  
 Very excited about having a completely restored receiver. It will be my first.


----------



## brunk

ladavid said:


> Been talking to John at Vinylflat today about the Canopener.  Says my amp should be a good match for the canopener - I checked that my speaker connections had a common ground.  Also read some reviews here at Head-Fi - sounds like a good product for relatively few dollars leaving me more money for new headphones.  Appreciate the pointer to this product.


 
 Glad I was able to help! Feel free to join the "speaker amps for headphones" thread.


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> Glad I was able to help! Feel free to join the "speaker amps for headphones" thread.


 
  
 Speaker amps for headphones - it's akin to a Halloween 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Trick-or-Treat. When it works out..... look out!


----------



## kstuart

demonfox said:


> And a follow up, what would be a fair price for a minty Pioneer SX-850? Seen prices range from $150 to $350 Whats a more realistic price?


 
 Whatever you can get it for !
  
 And depends on the condition.
  
 Certainly worth $150, as it is part of the upper tier line of Pioneer Receivers, made in Japan, in their best year for build quality (and some say sound quality as well).


----------



## Meewoo

claybum said:


> Actually, the KA 907 is recapped. The ebay seller I purchased it from did the work himself. I have no idea of his skills or the quality of his work, but the amp sounds real nice. However, I have to give the nod to the 600. It's quite excellent. Both are pretty neutral, detailed and dynamic. *The 600 punches harder*. It's more transparent and I hear the textures of the instruments like no other amp I have.
> 
> Even though both amps have been recapped, it still might not be a fair comparison given they were worked on by different  people. Echo Wars over at AK has a great reputation.


 
  
 Yes, my 500 is more punchy at low end than ka-907 even though it has less power. It made me think 500 is a hair warmer than 907. Thanks for your impression!


----------



## Meewoo

matttcg said:


> I decided that I liked the sx1050 enough to get a restoration done. So today I drove to Knoxville TN to drop off the 1050 with Terry Dewick who is somewhat reknowned for his vintage restorations.


 
  
 So SX-1050 wins over SX-1280 and Suii 9090DB?


----------



## Skylab

demonfox said:


> And a follow up, what would be a fair price for a minty Pioneer SX-850? Seen prices range from $150 to $350 Whats a more realistic price?
> 
> That is a realistic range depending on condition although for $350 it should be stone mint and working perfectly.
> 
> ...







matttcg said:


> I decided that I liked the sx1050 enough to get a restoration done. So today I drove to Knoxville TN to drop off the 1050 with Terry Dewick who is somewhat reknowned for his vintage restorations. The other photos are the other restorations he is working on. They are all Mac's, very early.
> 
> Very excited about having a completely restored receiver. It will be my first.




Nice! Good move


----------



## DemonFox

kstuart said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > And a follow up, what would be a fair price for a minty Pioneer SX-850? Seen prices range from $150 to $350 Whats a more realistic price?
> ...


 
  
 So then is $300 to much?? I'm looking at others that have sold and average price is $225 so not really sure what to do?? I also found a SX-750 for $150 locally. Is there that much of a difference between the two?? Excuse the noob questions please. I'm a lot better with newer amps  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## moodyrn

Wow soo many nice scores since I last visited. Congrats everyone. Claybum I think it's really awesome you got one restored by echowars. People say the magic he performs not only brings them back to like new, but much better than new. I guess there's a reason why he's backed up two years out. I saw a model 500 he did go for 2500 once(ouch). I hope one day he can pencil me in.


----------



## claybum

Thanks moodryn. It was clear upon first listen that the 600 was special and better that I hoped for. I think I will be in discovery mode with my music collection for a while.


----------



## claybum

meewoo said:


> Yes, my 500 is more punchy at low end than ka-907 even though it has less power. It made me think 500 is a hair warmer than 907. Thanks for your impression!


 
  
 Thank you. Your impressions validate what is happening with my amps. The bass on my KA 907 is detailed and textured but has a slightly soft presentation that occasionally goes deep. It's not ramped up or super punchy. It's a unique presentation and I like it.


----------



## MattTCG

meewoo said:


> So SX-1050 wins over SX-1280 and Suii 9090DB?


 
  
 Head to head and unrestored I favor the 1280 over the 1050 and the 1050 over the 9090db. I don't listen to speakers often, so I comes down to how the receivers are able to reproduce music on hp's mostly, especially he-4 and MD. The planar magnetic hp's just seem to love the Pioneers.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> The planar magnetic hp's just seem to love the Pioneers.




This. Alpha Dog on my Pioneer Spec amp is unreal. Bass is comparable to a D7000. Never would have believed it. :eek:


----------



## MattTCG

Agreed. I keep telling the guys on the MD and AD thread that they haven't really heard what those hp's can do until they put some old steel to them.


----------



## Skylab

demonfox said:


> So then is $300 to much?? I'm looking at others that have sold and average price is $225 so not really sure what to do?? I also found a SX-750 for $150 locally. Is there that much of a difference between the two?? Excuse the noob questions please. I'm a lot better with newer amps
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> ...




The 850 will be a notable step up over the 750, yes. $300 is at the upper range of what an 850 should cost, but again, if it is really mint and works perfectly, and you can pick it up so no shipping cost, then it's not a bad price, and it's certainly a very nice receiver.


----------



## ssrock64

matttcg said:


> Agreed. I keep telling the guys on the MD and AD thread that they haven't really heard what those hp's can do until they put some old steel to them.



I, for one, heeded that advice.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Agreed. I keep telling the guys on the MD and AD thread that they haven't really heard what those hp's can do until they put some old steel to them.


 
  
 Expressed right eloquently...


----------



## jasonb

My Pioneer SX-750 I only paid $40 bucks for. For those that don't know already, I gave the pots a good De-Oxit cleaning and that is all. It sounds magnificent as is, but I was wondering if anybody thinks it's worth it to have it checked out professionally. If so, how much is too much to spend on a 750? Is the 750 not worth a restore or at least a checkup? Should I keep looking for something bigger? 
  
 There is a local place called Elite Audio Repair that I was told is good. I was thinking about having them at least test it to see if everything is in spec if the price is right. I would just hate to spend the money and not notice any difference in sound. The only real issue I have is that there is some random channel imbalance for the first 5-10 minutes which goes away completely after it is warmed up. It's not a dirty pot, I've confirmed that, but I don't know enough to go any further on my own. Honestly when listening to it, I can't imagine it getting any better, but I've said that about past equipment and had to eat my words.


----------



## kstuart

The Elite Audio Repair site says "all units must be insured for at least $1,000" which makes it sound like one need not bother if one's equipment is less valuable than that.
  
 Elite might mean "units worth several thousand dollars"... but if you can go in person, you will at least save the $100-$150 in shipping cost.


----------



## LugBug1

jasonb, my honest opinion (as always would be to just enjoy it. You paid $40 and it sounds like you got one hell of a deal. If it breaks, get another... ~ What have you lost? Nothing. Because the sound quality of these golden oldies is well established and you'll soon get another great amp. 
  
 My first vintage amp was the Pioneer SX550 (recapped) and I thought it was the best, simply the best! But I've since bought other amps that sound better... Including another Pioneer, and they were all cheaper.   
  
 For what you may pay to get it serviced (which may only be checking the caps without changing them and spraying some oxit again.. Yes I can be cynical at times) you could buy another amp.  A stand- in, or it could be a better one!


----------



## jasonb

kstuart said:


> The Elite Audio Repair site says "all units must be insured for at least $1,000" which makes it sound like one need not bother if one's equipment is less valuable than that.
> 
> Elite might mean "units worth several thousand dollars"... but if you can go in person, you will at least save the $100-$150 in shipping cost.




They are no more than a half hour away, so there would be no shipping.


----------



## Silent One

I'm with LugBug1 on this. One thing that makes commenting difficult is that I cannot know (but could learn) what that particular receiver means to you. That said, I'd enjoy it and get another at a later date. Potential gold may be lying in wait.


----------



## DemonFox

Guys I need some more help.  So I'm debating between these models all Pioneer
  
 SX-680
 SX-750
 SX-780
 SX-850
 SX-950
 SX-980 
  
 Not really that sure about all of them but I learn more and more each day. Trying to stay under $225 so I know the 850 and up will most likely be out of my range for now so the two I'm interested in the most would have to be the 750 and 780. Has anyone had both or at least heard both or know enough to steer me into the right direction. I'll be using them with a couple of pairs of headphones and some bookshelves I've had for quite a while. 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## DefQon

Look's pretty.


----------



## Skylab

demonfox said:


> Guys I need some more help.  So I'm debating between these models all Pioneer
> 
> SX-680
> SX-750
> ...




I have a nice 680 which is great for the size and price (was $75!). I have briefly owned the 780 and the 980. The 980 is way above all of these others - if you can possibly afford it, the 980 would be the way to go.

But generally speaking, it's all about the condition of these. Buy one that looks clean and sounds clean, and you will be in good shape.


----------



## MattTCG

skylab said:


> I have a nice 680 which is great for the size and price (was $75!). I have briefly owned the 780 and the 980. The 980 is way above all of these others - if you can possibly afford it, the 980 would be the way to go.
> 
> But generally speaking, it's all about the condition of these. Buy one that looks clean and sounds clean, and you will be in good shape.


 
  
 So this is to say that you put the 980 or the 950?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Second the 680.  Had one for a while and regret letting it go.


----------



## DemonFox

skylab said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > Guys I need some more help.  So I'm debating between these models all Pioneer
> ...




Ok great! Good to know! I've also had my eye in the Yamaha CR-8020 and CR-1020. I've got a nice local one that I can demo 8020 but there are some nicely priced Pioneers out there too. Like you said clean and fully functional is the way to go but this is my first step into vintage so I wanna do it right! Am I right in thinking that Pioneers are known for better sound or is that just fan talk I'm hearing?


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## SpeakerBox

The sound of the Pioneers always sounded "cleaner" than most other receivers to me.  Big fan of Sherwood, though.


----------



## Shaffer

I apologize if this was already covered, how is the HP performance with an Advent receiver?


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> So this is to say that you put the 980 or the 950?




I have never heard a 950. In fact the only SX-xx50 receiver I have ever owned is the SX-1250, which is of course awesome. The xx50 and xx80 series sound very similar to me, and I prefer the look of the xx80 series.


----------



## DemonFox

speakerbox said:


> The sound of the Pioneers always sounded "cleaner" than most other receivers to me.  Big fan of Sherwood, though.


 
  
 The Yamaha's look good on paper with tons of power and great flexibility and features so of course that's attractive. But just want to make sure I get the right one.


----------



## Meewoo

demonfox said:


> The Yamaha's look good on paper with tons of power and great flexibility and features so of course that's attractive. But just want to make sure I get the right one.


 
  
 There is no CR-8020, could it be CR-2020?
 If it's CR-2020 and you can get it for $225 for good working and cosmetic condition. Go for it. If you don't like it, I am happy to buy from you.
  
 BTW, are you only interested in receiver? For $225 budget, I think you can get Pioneer SA-8x00 integrated easily (at least on ePay). If you get luck, you may get SA-9x00.


----------



## DemonFox

meewoo said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > The Yamaha's look good on paper with tons of power and great flexibility and features so of course that's attractive. But just want to make sure I get the right one.
> ...




Sorry, but I meant CR-820

Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## Meewoo

demonfox said:


> Sorry, but I meant CR-820
> 
> Thanks,


 
  
 Oh, 820 and 1020 are also very good Yamaha receivers.
  
 Regarding those 70's irons, Pionny, Marantz, Kenwood, Sansui, Yamaha, Harman Kardon etcs are all good (I omitted some brands on purpose). And every brand has own "house sound".
  
 So choice depends your preference. And there is no No.1 in them, different person has their own No.1.
 Searching your No.1 is a exciting journey! Hope you enjoy it as much as I.


----------



## kstuart

demonfox said:


> Guys I need some more help.  So I'm debating between these models all Pioneer
> 
> SX-680
> SX-750
> ...


 
 If you are making a decision, that is on a similar level of subtlety as the improvements of something like the LCD2.2 over some of the other headphones, then I would go for 850/950/980 OR as previously mentioned, the Pioneer Integrated Amp SA-8x00 or SA-9x00 where x is some number (same thing as 5 or 8 in your list of receivers), IF you do not need an FM tuner.
  
 I have read some things that SX-850 and above are made to higher standards than the lower numbered receivers, even though the lower numbered are fine products.


----------



## DemonFox

meewoo said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but I meant CR-820
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, I've already had a lot of fun searching so this is going to be great! 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## DefQon

meewoo said:


> Kenwood


 
  
 The late 60's to early 70's Kenwood's are all over the Sansui and Marantz from the same timeframe if you want a fat tubey sound. Very coloured and euphonic.


----------



## moodyrn

meewoo said:


> So choice depends your preference. And there is no No.1 in them, different person has their own No.1.
> Searching your No.1 is a exciting journey! Hope you enjoy it as much as I.


 
 Couldn't have said it better. I have favorites with in multiple brands, and I don't really have a brand preference. And some brands don't really have a house sound. Some brands have popular models with the same sound signature, but as a whole, produce models with different sound signatures. 
  
 Take marantz for example. Many of the receivers are will known for being warm and euphoric. But the "B" line have a signature that's more along the lines of neutral. A 2330B I once had was just as neutral as a pioneer sx1280 I recently owned. They both were just slightly warm. Most of the sansui's are said to be very warm as well, but the "G's" are reported to be neutral. So it really can be a very long journey. But it's worth it IMO, and like other's have said.....fun!!


----------



## LugBug1

^^ I'd agree with that too. I found my personal preference with mid 70's Sansui, warm, full, with a nice sheen in the treble but not analytical or hard. 
  
 Both my Pioneers sound very different, same as my Marantz. My two Sansui's sound very similar but they were from the same period. I really don't think its a simple as labelling 'Pioneers as best' or any other big name from the 70's. There is too much variation in models regarding sound characteristics. Pioneers from a certain era, e.g 78/79 would be more accurate imo.


----------



## MattTCG

The Sansui Model 8 that I owned recently was very close to neutral. Not my cup of tea, but if that's what you're after it will be very clean and neutral.


----------



## Shaffer

I bit the bullet and brought home a mint Kenwood 3130 receiver from '71-72. Everything works including the lights. Operationally, no issues. Reading this thread, it seems like most HP jacks at the time were ~120 Ohm or higher and that one should use the receiver as with speakers. My question, what do I need to do this? I imagine that something is required to pad down the power a bit, but I don't know what it's called. Noob, what can I say. Can someone please give me a pointer and I can search and go from there? Thank you in advance.
  
 The pic isn't mine, but the receiver looks identical to the image.


----------



## kstuart

I would try the headphone output and see how it is.  The 1970s headphone jacks are almost always just connected to the speaker outs with a resistor, which helps to allow you to use the full range of the volume knob.


----------



## kstuart

matttcg said:


> The Sansui Model 8 that I owned recently was very close to neutral. Not my cup of tea, but if that's what you're after it will be very clean and neutral.


 

 My recapped Sansui AU417 from the late 1970s is very characteristically upper-mid-fi neutral, while my Marantz 1040 has that warm euphonic sound.  The Kenwood M2A from the 1980s has more of a high-end-audio sound profile (although not quite a refined as the real high-end gear).
  
 I have had less of a need to get a Pioneer, since that is what I used "back in the day".  Currently, I don't need a preamp (which is why the M2A power amp with input level controls and headphone jack is perfect), but Pioneer did not make or sell very many power amps, so they tend to be expensive.  So, I may end up getting a SA-8x00 just for fun/nostalgia...


----------



## Shaffer

kstuart said:


> I would try the headphone output and see how it is.  The 1970s headphone jacks are almost always just connected to the speaker outs with a resistor, which helps to allow you to use the full range of the volume knob.


 
  
 Thank you for the reply. I have tried the HP-out. I mean, how could I resist? 
  
 My cans are DT880/600 and DT990pro. The 990s sound unbearably bright with almost zero low-end - a polar opposite of what I hear with my other amps The 880s, OTOH, fare much better. Smooth, powerful presentation with mostly sins of omission. The bass, however, doesn't go that deep; a subjective 50Hz or so. Any suggestions?


----------



## moodyrn

Well after failing to find someone here to recap my ka907 that I would trust to do it right, I decided to just get it serviced here in birmingham. I told him to fix or replace any parts bad or out of spec. It turns out that four caps in the power supply were bad. Although neither were leaking or bulged, they had dried up. Well two of them were and the other two were out of spec. Also two caps in the preamp were bad as well. So I got it back today and hooray!! It's king again(as far as solid state goes). Tonality wise it sounds the same. Technically as far as depth, extension, transparency etc, it's the same as well. But the reason I slightly preferred the restored 9090db to it was the fact the 907 sounded a bit grainy in comparison.

Well the grain is now completely gone, and the sound is buttery smooth. It now sounds like the solid state version of the 500c, though the 500c is still a little better. They both are the most neutral vintage amps I've heard and that includes the sx1280 which I find just slightly warm.(not a bad thing) But it makes me wonder if this would take the overall top spot if I could ever get it restored by echowars. Ummm.... But for now, just getting it serviced will have to do until he have a spot available.


----------



## Glow Fish

lugbug1 said:


> ^^ I'd agree with that too. I found my personal preference with mid 70's Sansui, warm, full, with a nice sheen in the treble but not analytical or hard.
> 
> Both my Pioneers sound very different, same as my Marantz. My two Sansui's sound very similar but they were from the same period. I really don't think its a simple as labelling 'Pioneers as best' or any other big name from the 70's. There is too much variation in models regarding sound characteristics. Pioneers from a certain era, e.g 78/79 would be more accurate imo.


 
  
 I have a Sansui 881 and a 2000X.  The 881 is my favorite of the two, but not by much as they have a similar sound - lush, but not loose or unrefined, good bass extension.  I also have a Pioneer SA-9100 that I love.  It is more neutral and very powerful.  All of them work great with Mad Dogs 3.2.  Power to spare.


----------



## claybum

Right on moodryn!!!! Buttery smooth for sure. Glad you had it worked on.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, wish I could get it "echowared" lol. But I can live with it as is. Being the second best(and best solid state) vintage amp I've heard isn't a bad compromise.


----------



## Oregonian

Vintage + Alpha Dogs = amazing. 
  
 Every one I tried was exceptional - seems the best was the Realistic STA-64B (lowest power output of all I own) with loudness engaged it was amazing.  The Kenwood KA-5700's and Pioneer Spec setups were the kind of experience you wish you had found way back before you started buying Magni's, E-11's, etc..................just so incredibly full sounding and the bass with everything set flat was great.  Now, add a bit of EQ to the low end, flip the loudness switch and you'll swear off speakers/subs.


----------



## Silent One

Wow, that #2 BCS ranking got you flipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





all kinda switches up there in Oregon! (just funnin' with you...)


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Wow, that #2 BCS ranking got you flipping
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Guess I'm more impressed with the Alpha Dog than the Ducks..................and that's saying something (considering two daughters are Duck's).


----------



## MattTCG

Congrats on the repair Moody. Sounds like it worked out better than you might have thought. 
  
 I have an interesting repair story. Recently my newly acquired sx1080 lost the right channel. Checked it with speakers and hp's...still no right channel. So then I strip it down to the frame and cleaned every pot and switch and button with deoxit...still no right channel. Now I had only just picked it up a few days earlier and it sounded wonderful. Since I've always wanted to try a restoration and the channel issue is keeping me from using the receiver, I decided to drive it up to Terry Dewick in Knoxville TN. He gets great reviews on AK so I thought that give him a shot at the 1050. 
  
 Three hours there and three back. He is currently 40-50 days out  and your wait time starts once he gets the receiver in hand. He does not accept shipped products because of all the damaged in the mail products that he's received. 
  
 It was a nice visit. Terry works out of his house. He's been repairing vintage gear since high school which was about 40 years ago I'd guess. He has 7 cats. I got to see pictures of them from birth to current status. I had hoped to talk about vintage gear and pick his brain but we mostly talked about the cats. 
  
 So then today I decided to put another vintage receiver back in place to be able to listen to my speaker setup while I wait for the 1050 to be back. Well, low and behold...same right channel is out. Now I thinking that the speaker may be defective. Not possible because I switched the cables around when I was testing the 1050 and the right speakers worked fine. 
  
 Long story short (sorta), it turns out that my Pioneer Elite SACD player has an intermittent channel issue. Who would've guessed? 
  
 Oh well, I guess that it will be nice to have to receiver back to spec and ready for another 35 years of enjoyment. It will be interesting to see if I can tell the difference once it's restored.


----------



## Skylab

Isn't that ironic, the vintage piece was fine and the modern piece wasn't? 

Matt you will be very happy you got the 1080 recapped and Terry has a great rep.


----------



## Meewoo

moodyrn said:


> Well after failing to find someone here to recap my ka907 that I would trust to do it right, I decided to just get it serviced here in birmingham. I told him to fix or replace any parts bad or out of spec. It turns out that four caps in the power supply were bad. Although neither were leaking or bulged, they had dried up. Well two of them were and the other two were out of spec. Also two caps in the preamp were bad as well. So I got it back today and hooray!! It's king again(as far as solid state goes). Tonality wise it sounds the same. Technically as far as depth, extension, transparency etc, it's the same as well. But the reason I slightly preferred the restored 9090db to it was the fact the 907 sounded a bit grainy in comparison.
> 
> Well the grain is now completely gone, and the sound is buttery smooth. It now sounds like the solid state version of the 500c, though the 500c is still a little better. They both are the most neutral vintage amps I've heard and that includes the sx1280 which I find just slightly warm.(not a bad thing) But it makes me wonder if this would take the overall top spot if I could ever get it restored by echowars. Ummm.... But for now, just getting it serviced will have to do until he have a spot available.


 
  
 How the Ka-907 recapping fall apart? I remember you were going to have it recapped in August? If it's not Ok to post here, please send me a message.
 And congrats for repairing!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think low noise floor of Ka-907 is really amazing!!


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> Congrats on the repair Moody. Sounds like it worked out better than you might have thought.
> 
> I have an interesting repair story. Recently my newly acquired sx1080 lost the right channel. Checked it with speakers and hp's...still no right channel. So then I strip it down to the frame and cleaned every pot and switch and button with deoxit...still no right channel. Now I had only just picked it up a few days earlier and it sounded wonderful. Since I've always wanted to try a restoration and the channel issue is keeping me from using the receiver, I decided to drive it up to Terry Dewick in Knoxville TN. He gets great reviews on AK so I thought that give him a shot at the 1050.
> 
> ...




Ah, I really hate to hear that Matt. Well on the bright side, I think you'll be smiling from ear to ear once you get it back.



meewoo said:


> How the Ka-907 recapping fall apart? I remember you were going to have it recapped in August? If it's not Ok to post here, please send me a message.
> And congrats for repairing!!
> 
> I think low noise floor of Ka-907 is really amazing!!




Well the guy never did respond any more, and given I would have to ship to the Chicago area, it was enough concern for me to not worry about it. I'm on the fence about giving him another try.


----------



## Silent One

The Holiday season could make things a bit more forgiving...


----------



## DefQon

Better be safe than sorry, plus you're doing yourself and that amp a favor.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, as echowars already said, it sounds great as is. Chasing those last few percentage points on sound just may be too big of a risk. But his youtube videos does look good which is why it's hard to write him off completely. But it is serviced and working great. So I'm just going to enjoy what I have for now.


----------



## DefQon

Nearly had a heart attack, 2/3 of the way restoring my Kenny KA-2000A decided to give it a demo after diode, AC coupling cap replacements, my gosh for a 13watter these sound huge even powering my 85watt/channel bookshelfs. 
  
 Still need to deoxit volume and source switch pot. Bit of background hum due to the power filtering caps. I got some nice Mundorfs as straight-drop ins but not sure if I want to :/


----------



## LugBug1

defqon said:


> Nearly had a heart attack, 2/3 of the way restoring my Kenny KA-2000A decided to give it a demo after diode, AC coupling cap replacements, my gosh for a 13watter these sound huge even powering my 85watt/channel bookshelfs.
> 
> Still need to deoxit volume and source switch pot. Bit of background hum due to the power filtering caps. I got some nice Mundorfs as straight-drop ins but not sure if I want to :/


 
 Sounds like your doing a good job! The little bit of background hum might be bearable if you are only using it with speakers? I've always like the look of those amps, gonna have to try one at some point.


----------



## Trav

Moody is that our guy in Homewood?


----------



## MattTCG

Got a Pioneer sx 890 fs local. Looks to be in good condition and the price is right. But I don't know anything about the x90 series. Anybody own one?


----------



## Skylab

Pioneer SX-890 is just a SX-880 with a black tuner face.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks Rob!!


----------



## moodyrn

trav said:


> Moody is that our guy in Homewood?


 
 Yep, he's does good work. He's one of the one's who don't believe in recapping. But is willing to do it for 4 figures. Unlike some of boutique vintage vintage specialists, he charges only by the hour. And a job like that will take days to perform and  you're on the clock the whole time. But for basic repair work, I trust him more than anyone here in the area. He's also the only pioneer authorized service center in the region.


----------



## MattTCG

When exploring for restoration technician, one guy that I spoke with here in Atlanta said that he doesn't always replace the primary caps especially if they are still in spec and show no signs of problems. According to him, the original Japanese caps are better than the Chinese replacements we get today.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn, your "4 figures" reference just made me realize something. If I should meet an early demise, to whom should my precious vintage audio goodies go to? With the holidays coming and quick, this is something I need to sit down and think about.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> When exploring for restoration technician, one guy that I spoke with here in Atlanta said that he doesn't always replace the primary caps especially if they are still in spec and show no signs of problems. According to him, the original Japanese caps are better than the Chinese replacements we get today.


 
  
 My old-timer told me the same thing - new ain't always better and couldn't source some of the original pieces. Been working on repair since the '60's. All my caps were visually fine and tested well within spec. And recommended I simply get on with enjoying the music until something happens.


----------



## LugBug1

^ Yup, until I see smoke.. I ain't recapping jack


----------



## Meewoo

Regarding recapping, there are liberals and conservatives in this thread!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I don't own any recapped pieces, but I do believe recapping is the way to restore the glory of those old pieces.
  
 Regarding recapping, I would rather trust my no EE background friends than my technicians. My tech will tell me not recapping since everything is fine (on spec). Wow, it's fine at this moment, but not future proof. The old caps are doom to fail, so someday some will fail. My technician will change them with corresponding fees. Then another day, some will fail again, my technician will change them fro another fees. Adding those small fee together and I think it will definitely exceed your over haul cost. Besides these financial kiting reason, recapping is tedious work, not all technician enjoy it. As for Chinese cap, you can always buy Japanese caps, no problem at all. And cap choice are very important according AK thread. And as for on specs,  someone on Ak says whats seen on test equipment can't directly reflect in sound.
  
 The reasons that I don't own any recapped pieces:
 1, I haven't decide which pieces to own for long time,
 2, couldn't find some one locally for good work and reasonable price,
 3, Most importantly, I still hope that one day I can do it myself.
  
 Again, I am supporting recapping!


----------



## DefQon

Thats why I only recap with NOS equivalents it's not worth recapping using quality US, German or Japanese made boutique caps in most cases and it's not worth recapping with $0.05 Jaycar Jamicons and other generic brand caps.


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> moodyrn, your "4 figures" reference just made me realize something. If I should meet an early demise, to whom should my precious vintage audio goodies go to? With the holidays coming and quick, this is something I need to sit down and think about.


 
 I couldn't help but chuckle when I read this. I know for a fact, if I kick the bucket anytime soon, all of my gear will be listed on ebay before I'm even in the ground courtesy of my lovely wife.
  
 I will admit, I use to be of the camp "replace caps only as needed". But after owning my first completely recapped piece of gear(sansuii 9090db) I have completely changed my stance on that. Although the guy went a lot further than recapping including resistors, diodes, etc....I was completely blown away. And as of today, my restored 500c and 9090db stands out from anything I've owned(with the exception of the 907 which has been only serviced with a few caps replaced).
  
 That list includes....sx1010, au-517, au-11000, au-9500(probably to most fun sounding amp), sx1280, kr-9600, 2325, 2330B, x100c(partially restored), and a few other midlevel pieces.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> I couldn't help but chuckle when I read this. I know for a fact, if I kick the bucket anytime soon, all of my gear will be listed on ebay before I'm even in the ground courtesy of my lovely wife.
> 
> I will admit, I use to be of the camp "replace caps only as needed". But after owning my first completely recapped piece of gear(sansuii 9090db) I have completely changed my stance on that. Although the guy went a lot further than recapping including resistors, diodes, etc....I was completely blown away. And as of today, my restored 500c and 9090db stands out from anything I've owned(with the exception of the 907 which has been only serviced with a few caps replaced).
> 
> That list includes....sx1010, au-517, au-11000, au-9500(probably to most fun sounding amp), sx1280, kr-9600, 2325, 2330B, x100c(partially restored), and a few other midlevel pieces.


 




_And I'd help her_... of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 under the guise of honoring you, and I'd click "BUY IT NOW!"
  
 Honestly, I was open-minded about the whole affair during the wait. Then 4-6 weeks later, came a whopping estimate of ("Let's see, Fully restored Sansui or Pre-Owned BMW?").


----------



## harrinj

I thought I'd try my HE-500's with my Marantz 2220B today and I discovered that they go pretty sweet together! I remember the 2220B sounding dull and lifeless with my K702's. My 2020B was basically new in the box and mint, It's like time forgot it because even the lights shine like brand new the paper is perfect.


----------



## Skylab

meewoo said:


> Regarding recapping, there are liberals and conservatives in this thread!!
> 
> I don't own any recapped pieces, but I do believe recapping is the way to restore the glory of those old pieces.
> 
> ...




EXCELLENT post.

I would also add, as I have said before, that unless someone can do the recap themselves, it really only makes sense to recap higher-end/closer to TOTL pieces. For less expensive pieces, it's more sensible to clean them and then just use them up until they go bad, and then replace.


----------



## Meewoo

skylab said:


> EXCELLENT post.
> 
> I would also add, as I have said before, that unless someone can do the recap themselves, it really only makes sense to recap higher-end/closer to TOTL pieces. For less expensive pieces, it's more sensible to clean them and then just use them up until they go bad, and then replace.


 
 As always +1!!
  
 TOTL or emotion attached pieces are collectable.
  
 Middle to low end models (except some gems like Marantz 2030,  1060 etc)are just toys. They aren't worth having recapped.


----------



## DefQon

meewoo said:


> As always +1!!
> 
> TOTL or emotion attached pieces are collectable.
> 
> Middle to low end models (except some gems like Marantz 2030,  1060 etc)are just toys. They aren't worth having recapped.




Not true especially from a collectors point of view, if its bad and you like it you fix it regardless of whether or not its low end, mid fi,crap fi or high fi.


----------



## roadcykler

skylab said:


> EXCELLENT post.
> 
> I would also add, as I have said before, that unless someone can do the recap themselves, it really only makes sense to recap higher-end/closer to TOTL pieces. For less expensive pieces, it's more sensible to clean them and then just use them up until they go bad, and then replace.


 
 Except the near TOTL or TOTL pieces are usually much more expensive than the next model or 2 down. How many Sx 780's can you buy for the cost of one SX 1280 (or whatever the TOTL SX series is)?
  
 I had a Sansui 8080db that was less than half of what a 9090db of similar quality went for and I'd bet the cost of both of them that the 9090 didn't sound that much better (frankly, I'd bet it didn't sound _any_ better but that's a different thread).


----------



## harrinj

Beeeee'uty. I think I might polish up the face tomorrow. I cannot get over how well this goes with the HE-500 it sounds so great, the BEST of all my receivers.


----------



## Silent One

Great! But if that's a speaker in the right corner, it looks like your HE500 is on the floor 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





dukin' it out for playing time.


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> Great! But if that's a speaker in the right corner, it looks like your HE500 is on the floor
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yeah it's a KEF 103/4 but they aren't hooked up because the wires are too big for the 2220B's connectors (I hate the type of connectors the 2220B has), and the cord is like that so it does not get tangled up in my desk chair


----------



## Silent One

I hate the spring connectors two of my Pioneers have. It just seems like the contact isn't the greatest.


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> I hate the spring connectors two of my Pioneers have. It just seems like the contact isn't the greatest.


 
 yup same!


----------



## MattTCG

silent one said:


> I hate the spring connectors two of my Pioneers have. It just seems like the contact isn't the greatest.


 
  
  


harrinj said:


> yup same!


 
  
 Since my sx1050 is in for the restore, I decided to ask that the speakers connectors be replaced with something more modern. It will detract from the value I would imagine but since I have no plans to sell this one I don't mind so much. I'll appreciate the ability to use some nice heavy cable and connectors more than anything else.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> Since my sx1050 is in for the restore, I decided to ask that the speakers connectors be replaced with something more modern. It will detract from the value I would imagine but since I have no plans to sell this one I don't mind so much. I'll appreciate the ability to use some nice heavy cable and connectors more than anything else.




Being able to use banana plugs would be the ideal. Talk about quick connect........


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> I hate the spring connectors two of my Pioneers have. It just seems like the contact isn't the greatest.




My least favorite thing about the Pioneers, and quite a few other vintage units. Worst speaker connector ever that wasn't some one-off proprietary thing.


----------



## parbaked

+1!
 I couldn't use ANY of my soldered -banana or spade - cables! 
 Using raw braided cable is a pain but I did peruse some options if you have unterminated cables that are too big for your spring connectors:
 1. Solid Pin connectors - Not recommended !
 Not a great connection in that they can be pulled out easily and MUST avoid ones designed to "break off to fit". 
 2. Tributaries Soft Pins or Viablue Flexible Pins (Monster also makes a cheaper version)
 These are more interesting. The "pin" portion is "soft" braided cable instead of being thin hard metal and makes a solid connection that won't spin in the amp. The Tributaries can take up to 12 awg cable; not sure how big the ViaBlue can handle. Neither helps if your cables are terminated with something and unfortunately nether is cheap - though both are really well made, especially the ViaBlue.
  
 The Tributaries Soft Pins are hard to find - I can't even find a good image online. Basically contact your local McIntosh dealer and ask for them. Tributaries and McIntosh are loosely related and Soft Pins were designed to mate modern cables to vintage McIntosh amps. They look like a more DIY version of the below ViaBlues:
  
 I first saw the ViaBlue in Japan but found them here at Ram ($30+ for 4). 
 http://www.ramelectronics.net/product.aspx?zpid=144&gclid=CIaImNSBv7oCFbFxQgodXwwAkw

  
 In Japan I saw the even sexier T6 version:

  
 The fancy pin connectors didn't help me as all my cables were soldered/terminated and them plugs and spades are too costly to snip off!
 I ended up selling a pair of fancy speaker cables and buying bulk Nordost Flatline cable - great stuff!
 http://www.nordost.com/products/speaker-cables/flatline/2-flat-speaker-cable.php
 It's not that easy to find bulk/unterminated, but your local Nordost dealer should have bulk for sale by the foot for $5.00/foot.
 It's thin, flat, extruded solid copper so it's light, near indestructible and easy to hide - even under carpets.

 After stripping I bend the ends into a "pin" with a "lip" to make a secure connection in my Pioneer SA-7100.

  
 Cables hides nicely behind the vintage Linn Kan stands:

 WORKS!


----------



## harrinj

skylab said:


> My least favorite thing about the Pioneers, and quite a few other vintage units. Worst speaker connector ever that wasn't some one-off proprietary thing.


 
 Yeah. My 2220B, Kenwood KR-7400 (The 7400 has some bizarre connectors!) and both HK 670 and 430 have these crappy speaker terminals. My cables are raw on one end and banana plugs to the speakers but the wire does not fit at all into these terminals on the 2220B, they short out on the left side easily on the 670 (Because they are SO close together!) and it's hard to get them in on the 430. my favorite type are on the Marantz 4400/4240 and somewhat the screw-down type on the Kenwood KA-7100. 

 I've been listening to this 2220B all night and it's so wonderful with the HE-500 it's neutral and layered you can hear things clearly that would be overtaken in my other amps. Are all the XXXXB types like this anyone know? I pretty much damned this amp before because it was so lifeless with my K702's and DT990's but man it's the BEST of my amps with the Hifiman.


----------



## MattTCG

Picked up this 890 today for $65 off CL. Works perfectly and you gotta love the black face with black meters!!


----------



## moodyrn

Looks great Matt!! Killer price too.


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you kind sir. Now, the sx890 is sounding pretty good to me. It's better than what I had expected. It will likely end of as my BR setup. I've got the Large Advents downstairs with the sx1050. And now the search begins for some decent speakers for the BR.


----------



## analogsurviver

parbaked said:


> +1!
> I couldn't use ANY of my soldered -banana or spade - cables!
> Using raw braided cable is a pain but I did peruse some options if you have unterminated cables that are too big for your spring connectors:
> 1. Solid Pin connectors - Not recommended !
> ...


 
 Thank you for pointing out the existance of ViaBlue connectors. Try attaching speaker cables to Technics gear ...
  
 Otherwise, the most sensible connectors for spekars are Neutrik Speakon. You can not make  a short, you can not make out of phase connection, they are rugged, there are 2/4/8 pole versions, all these wires fit in with a slight push and come out by releasing a small latch, much like with XLRs. 
 Audiophiles usually develop hysterical reactions - WHY I can not use my ( fill in with your favourite brand of cable ) terminated with bananas/spades/whatevers. They have de facto became standard in pro instalations, where you need good, fast and reliable speaker connections.
  
http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/


----------



## moodyrn

With my background in pro audio, I can tell you these are absolutely the best connections available for speakers period. But visually and size wise, they aren't audiophile friendly.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> With my background in pro audio, I can tell you these are absolutely the best connections available for speakers period. But visually and size wise, they aren't audiophile friendly.


 
 +1.


----------



## DemonFox

matttcg said:


> Picked up this 890 today for $65 off CL. Works perfectly and you gotta love the black face with black meters!!


 
  
 Wow! That's a great deal! Wish I could find something that out here in Phoenix. Best I've seen was a Yamaha CR-620 for $75 and an CR-820 but I can't get him to message me back about the price... 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Picked up this 890 today for $65 off CL. Works perfectly and you gotta love the black face with black meters!!


 
 Nice one Matt, lovin it!


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Picked up this 890 today for $65 off CL. Works perfectly and you gotta love the black face with black meters!!


 
  
 Talk about 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Trick or Treat... you 'neaked a fast one! I love the black face/meters... and CL.


----------



## Mr. Morden

Forgot all about this thread! I've found several vintage amps and receivers since I've been away. Picked up this beaut for $20 (Scott 480A), was filthy when I found it but cleaned up fairly nicely (don't know what they got on the knobs but it did not want to come off). Sorry for the super crop job, so much mess everywhere else in the pic lol

  
 You don't even want to know what I paid for this one, but here's the pic (Sansui 1000A). Had a blown fuse, still want to recap and bring it up with a variac but is otherwise intact with all tubes.

  
 Picked up this guy for $35 (Onkyo TX-4500), I'd put a pic of mine up but the glass is cracked and I have it off right now - trying to get a new piece cut for it.

  
 Another one you don't wanna know what I paid for it (Scott 370R). It has some wonky issues with one meter not moving, and the input selector knob kind of acts up sometimes (Like it gets stuck between two inputs - stupid me getting deoxit in the mechanism 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Not a picture of mine as I have it all apart now trying to get the meter working and with little success, trying to fix that darned input knob

  
 Both the Scott 370R and the Onkyo TX-4500 are part of that fad of "Our receiver is bigger than yours". I can't directly recall which is wider at the moment, but both of them are simply ridiculously big for their wattage.
  
 Last one is this little Luxman LV-112, not as fancy as the others but it was $10 and is like someone just took it out of the box. I have such a soft spot for Luxman (I miss my old Luxman L-480, which I was dumb and young when I found and sold like a fool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

  
 I'm trying to compare the Scott 480A to my trusty Harman/Kardon PM655 for using as a headphone amp (with my HD595's, nothing crazy), I was trying out the LV-112 but it has some serious volume pot imbalances at the levels I'm listening (fine for speakers though). Not figuring on much help, but anyone care to weigh in? The H/K has more adjustable tone controls to fine tune the sound and bass contour seems more pleasant than the loudness on the Scott, although the Scott sounds lovely completely flat with no loudness or tone at all. Not that the H/K doesn't mind you. I A/B'ed the two and they're both very close. I like the meters on the Scott and the flat sound, but the H/K has more adjustability with its free flowing volume knob and tone controls (should I choose to use them).


----------



## Silent One

Talk about cuttin' it close!
  
 Last night just before 2200 hours, I dragged my audio rack out of storage. Shoved it into the rear seating area of my ride and off I went. The coffee table that stands in as my rack is 48x23x16.5.
  
_Just noticed the moving company manhandled it; now suffering stress fatigue in joint areas. _





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can only fit 'Baby Sinister' on the bottom, so I reassembled the two halves into a single piece. And was quickly reminded how heavy this thing is! After gently shoving the Sansui into place I began to smile broadly. The rack has a depth of 23", and the Sansui has a depth of 23"... can't get any closer than that!


----------



## MattTCG

Once you get into the bigger vintage receivers, finding a good rack for storage can often be a problem. DIY racks often become necessary or putting it on the top shelf.


----------



## PhoenixG

I use this guy - originally from Bestbuy, but found on CL. Attractive, well built, heavy, and BIG. I had my KR-9600 on the middle shelf and the SX-1980 on the bottom shelf and it had room for more. I think it's 59'' wide and 28 deep on the bottom.


----------



## parbaked

By my calculations you have room for 7 more vintage receivers!


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> Talk about cuttin' it close!
> 
> Last night just before 2200 hours, I dragged my audio rack out of storage. Shoved it into the rear seating area of my ride and off I went. The coffee table that stands in as my rack is 48x23x16.5.
> 
> ...


 
 Way to go SO! Can't wait to hear more


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> I use this guy - originally from Bestbuy, but found on CL. Attractive, well built, heavy, and BIG. I had my KR-9600 on the middle shelf and the SX-1980 on the bottom shelf and it had room for more. I think it's 59'' wide and 28 deep on the bottom.




Wow! Didn't know anyone else had one of these! Been using one for a couple years myself, GREAT rack!


----------



## jasonb

Holy crap SkyLab!!!


----------



## Mach-X

Just looking at that makes me want to cry. I see you haven't broken the laws of audiophilia by only having a slight smiley face on that EQ, more like a little smirk XD


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> Wow! Didn't know anyone else had one of these! Been using one for a couple years myself, GREAT rack!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What rack? I can't see no stinkin' rack!!


----------



## PhoenixG

parbaked said:


> What rack? I can't see no stinkin' rack!!


 
 7 more if I get little ones, only 4 more if I get monsters. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I only have two on there now, and the tv/dvr/modem on the top shelf.


----------



## LugBug1

skylab said:


> Wow! Didn't know anyone else had one of these! Been using one for a couple years myself, GREAT rack!


 
  
 rack..? oh yes I see it.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Someone help me roll my tongue back in please...!


----------



## Silent One

Wait... we forgot to ask Skylab how much he paid for his Parking Permit for that rig!


----------



## MattTCG

I'm just wondering how he's still married. My wife was ready to divorce me over a sx1050!!


----------



## Silent One

Yes... I remember you describing _The Look. _And how close you were to ringing my door bell for the spare bedroom.


----------



## LugBug1

The secret is.. Every receiver you buy, you have to have enough in your budget for a pair of shoes.


----------



## MattTCG

silent one said:


> Yes... I remember you describing _The Look. _And how close you were to ringing my door bell for the spare bedroom.


 
  
 Um...yes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Remember, always operate out of the secret paypal account. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  When she says, "oh god, how much did that one cost?" You say, "baby, that was like $25 from the Goodwill store."


----------



## Silent One

Or how 'bout _"I took it in on a trade... plus $10!"_


----------



## SpeakerBox

lugbug1 said:


> The secret is.. Every receiver you buy, you have to have enough in your budget for a pair of shoes.


 
  
 That is how it works in my house.  I get something - she gets something.  Actually works out OK and keeps the peace!


----------



## Silent One

I heard back in the day, some would undervalue - sometimes severely so - their electronic goodies to their mates. With today's Smartphones, the jig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is up!


----------



## Skylab

I'm lucky in that my wife is very understanding of my hobbies as long as they stay contained to the attic, basement, or family room, AND I am very neat, tidy, and organized about it. She isn't into messes or Rube Goldberg type stuff


----------



## brunk

skylab said:


> I'm lucky in that my wife is very understanding of my hobbies as long as they stay contained to the attic, basement, or family room, AND I am very neat, tidy, and organized about it. She isn't into messes or Rube Goldberg type stuff


 
 Sounds like a very fair deal to me!


----------



## LugBug1

My bedside rig all settled for the winter coming in... Got a little portable ariel so that I can listen to the radio as well. 
  
 Bad photo, but at the bottom thats my NAD3020i. One of my better purchases by far. Great for headphones, it has a 20db button and it is very quiet. Lovely tone.


----------



## MattTCG

Looks really nice LugBug. I like how you squeezed the Marantz onto the second shelf. 
  
 One day, I will get to hear the hd800. I missed them at the Atlanta meet. If I thought that they would sound better than the hd650, to me, I'd buy them today. Got to hear them first before putting down that kind of cash.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Looks really nice LugBug. I like how you squeezed the Marantz onto the second shelf.
> 
> One day, I will get to hear the hd800. I missed them at the Atlanta meet. If I thought that they would sound better than the hd650, to me, I'd buy them today. Got to hear them first before putting down that kind of cash.


 
 I think they are better but of course its all subjective my friend.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> I'm lucky in that my wife is very understanding of my hobbies as long as they stay contained to the attic, basement, or family room, AND I am very neat, tidy, and organized about it. She isn't into messes or Rube Goldberg type stuff


 

 Mine realizes her good fortune with my obsession being audio instead of bars/mistresses like her friend just found out about her husband................came home after hearing the news of his dallying and said "put stereos wherever you want babe".  Sucks to be him right now trust me................but I shall utilize this timing for the betterment of the various systems already in place.


----------



## MattTCG

It would be a Herculean order to knock off the hd650 for me. Those like like mids get me every time.


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> It would be a Herculean order to knock off the hd650 for me. Those like like mids get me every time.


 
 If you're a sucker for mids like me, definitely put the HE-6 on your list. Heck, you already have the ingredients for an excellent pairing with the vintage iron. Just ask Silent One


----------



## MattTCG

I did get to hear the he-6 at the Atlanta meet on Moody's 9090db. It was wonderful, but way way too heavy for me. I've sworn off hp's that weigh more than 350 grams. Comfort is King!!
  
 But the he-4, baby brother to the he-6, weighs in at? Shockingly 350 grams.


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> I did get to hear the he-6 at the Atlanta meet on Moody's 9090db. It was wonderful, but way way too heavy for me. I've sworn off hp's that weigh more than 350 grams. Comfort is King!!
> 
> But the he-4, baby brother to the he-6, weighs in at? Shockingly 350 grams.


 
 Work out them neck muscles man!


----------



## MattTCG

Nope, I'm done with the heavy weights. LCD 2 nearly put me in traction. Man, did I love the sound from that hp though.


----------



## sidrpm

skylab said:


> Wow! Didn't know anyone else had one of these! Been using one for a couple years myself, GREAT rack!


 
 Vintage Porn......


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> Nope, I'm done with the heavy weights. LCD 2 nearly put me in traction. Man, did I love the sound from that hp though.


 
 Aww too bad  The HD-800 is a killer HP though, but it takes a back seat to the HE-6 mids IMO. Hopefully you'll find it a worthwhile upgrade when you get to listen to it.


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> LCD 2 nearly put me in traction.


 





, I felt the same way but got accustomed to them.
  
 Let me know if you ever want to part with that 890, I always liked the looks of them.


----------



## brunk

sidrpm said:


> Vintage Porn......


 
 Indeed! I'm a sucker for wood and VU meters too. *drool*


----------



## Mr. Morden

A random but related question, why do people have such an obsession with Pioneer gear? I never have figured that out. Not knocking them since I have a few old Pioneers but I don't get why people seem to collect them and pay such outrageous prices (Seen the prices for SX-1250s lately?). Their sound is not bad, but it's not the best out there either. Nothing wrong with that, but if I hadn't got my Pioneers for cheap there's no way I would pay their going prices. Some of them cost as much as McIntosh and some high-end amplifiers, which seems silly to me considering what you get compared to those.


----------



## MattTCG

fearless1 said:


> , I felt the same way but got accustomed to them.
> 
> Let me know if you ever want to part with that 890, I always liked the looks of them.


 
  
 I would trade something for the 890 but you won't like the shipping cost.


----------



## DefQon

I actually agree with that. But I guess collector's pay for that extra premium due to it being rare or just preserving down a bit of history.

Everyone likes different stuff I personally think the vintage Marantz that I've heard (all the four digit) receiver models except the Model M series power amps and the Sansui (AU515, 555, 717, 919) suck but hey thats me.

Haven't heard any Pioneers lately.


----------



## Skylab

mr. morden said:


> A random but related question, why do people have such an obsession with Pioneer gear? I never have figured that out. Not knocking them since I have a few old Pioneers but I don't get why people seem to collect them and pay such outrageous prices (Seen the prices for SX-1250s lately?). Their sound is not bad, but it's not the best out there either. Nothing wrong with that, but if I hadn't got my Pioneers for cheap there's no way I would pay their going prices. Some of them cost as much as McIntosh and some high-end amplifiers, which seems silly to me considering what you get compared to those.




Here is the thing about Pioneer: they made a LOT of gear in the 70's. And amazingly, much of it still works. Some is very cheap: I got a SX-680, works well and looks nice, $75. Some units like the SX-1250 and 1980 are expensive, but they have a certain appeal. They also do sound very good if they are in good shape.

But I won't deny it is BOTH the look and sound of late 70's Pioneer that I like. It's a package deal


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> I would trade something for the 890 but you won't like the shipping cost.


 
 I just bought a new amp and have some new cans on the way so I am done for a bit, but when(and if ) you grow weary of it I am very interested. I bought one on E bay and it was in horrible shape, yours looks cherry.
  
 @ Mr. Skylab Is that EQ a 9800 with a wood cabinet?


----------



## Mr. Morden

defqon said:


> I actually agree with that. But I guess collector's pay for that extra premium due to it being rare or just preserving down a bit of history.
> 
> Everyone likes different stuff I personally think the vintage Marantz that I've heard (all the four digit) receiver models except the Model M series power amps and the Sansui (AU515, 555, 717, 919) suck but hey thats me.
> 
> Haven't heard any Pioneers lately.


 
 Hmm, well I hope so. If I ever sell my Pioneer A-27 integrated I'm hoping that will help it sell, since it is legitimately rare. I'm more of a separates guy or at least integrated amps, so while I enjoy receivers to a degree they're always second to a nice integrated or a good pre/power setup. Rarely do see much in the way of vintage power amps, which is a shame as I know there were some good ones. Something in me just would feel so very dirty and wrong for paying the kind of money things like SX-1250/80s go for considering it's just a well built mass market receiver and high end amps go for the same or less that easily outperform it.


----------



## Skylab

fearless1 said:


> I just bought a new amp and have some new cans on the way so I am done for a bit, but when(and if ) you grow weary of it I am very interested. I bought one on E bay and it was in horrible shape, yours looks cherry.
> 
> @ Mr. Skylab Is that EQ a 9800 with a wood cabinet?




No, the EQ is the one non-Pioneer piece - it's a Sansui SE-8X in a wood cabinet.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Mr. Morden* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Hmm, well I hope so. If I ever sell my Pioneer A-27 integrated I'm hoping that will help it sell, since it is legitimately rare. I'm more of a separates guy or at least integrated amps, so while I enjoy receivers to a degree they're always second to a nice integrated or a good pre/power setup. Rarely do see much in the way of vintage power amps, which is a shame as I know there were some good ones. *Something in me just would feel so very dirty and wrong for paying the kind of money things like SX-1250/80s go for considering it's just a well built mass market receiver and high end amps go for the same or less that easily outperform it.*


 
  
 Silver-faced foxes... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 you do know _sex_ sells, right?


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> If you're a sucker for mids like me, definitely put the HE-6 on your list. Heck, you already have the ingredients for an excellent pairing with the vintage iron. Just ask Silent One


 
 Yeah, I got both. And while each have their roles and sound nice with some heavy iron, those HiFiMAN's... there's _magic_ in the middle! From Astrud Gilberto to Aretha Franklin and Angela Bofill and Al Green in between, WOWZA!
  
 The LCD-2 has wonderful mids, but my listening sessions kept going final with _"Yeah, but..."_ Very very promising and would have me leaning forward only to stop short of a pay-off. Akin to getting paid most of what you expect and then you're expected to come back for residual payment next session. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 When I listen and put the time and effort in, I want to get paid in full.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> I did get to hear the he-6 at the Atlanta meet on Moody's 9090db. It was wonderful, but way way too heavy for me. I've sworn off hp's that weigh more than 350 grams. Comfort is King!!
> 
> But the he-4, baby brother to the he-6, weighs in at? Shockingly 350 grams.


 
  
 Or, you could wear the light-as-a-feather Senn HD280Pro. With a oxygen-restricting clamping force. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm neither bothered or conscious by the weight of the LCD-2 or HE-6. Perhaps, I am distracted?


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> I'm neither bothered or conscious by the weight of the LCD-2 or HE-6. Perhaps, I am distracted?


 
 ...by lugging my huge Sansui around...


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> ...by lugging my huge Sansui around...


 





 Sumthin's workin' 4 me! Gonna have to shoot a new pix of it lurking in its new place.


----------



## Fearless1

skylab said:


> No, the EQ is the one non-Pioneer piece - it's a Sansui SE-8X in a wood cabinet.


 
 It is sharp.


----------



## MattTCG

silent one said:


> Yeah, I got both. And while each have their roles and sound nice with some heavy iron, those HiFiMAN's... there's _magic_ in the middle! From Astrud Gilberto to Aretha Franklin and Angela Bofill and Al Green in between, WOWZA!
> 
> The LCD-2 has wonderful mids, but my listening sessions kept going final with _"Yeah, but..."_ Very very promising and would have me leaning forward only to stop short of a pay-off. Akin to getting paid most of what you expect and then you're expected to come back for residual payment next session.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, so you find the he-6 mids appreciable better than the lcd2.2? I was only able to audition the he-6 for a brief session at a meet and have not got to spend any real time with it. Of course, the real issue for both of the hp's is the weight. Unfortunately the only flagship that is nice and light and very comfortable is the hd800. Based on reputation, I might love it or hate it as it seems to be somewhat polarizing. If someone here is rocking the hd800 please let me know what you think.


----------



## SpeakerBox

mr. morden said:


> A random but related question, why do people have such an obsession with Pioneer gear? I never have figured that out. Not knocking them since I have a few old Pioneers but I don't get why people seem to collect them and pay such outrageous prices (Seen the prices for SX-1250s lately?). Their sound is not bad, but it's not the best out there either. Nothing wrong with that, but if I hadn't got my Pioneers for cheap there's no way I would pay their going prices. Some of them cost as much as McIntosh and some high-end amplifiers, which seems silly to me considering what you get compared to those.


 
  
 This is a point I made a few months back.  All the vintage receivers I have heard are lacking compared to similarly priced vintage high end gear.  So, I had to ask myself - am I truly in this for the sound?  The answer kept coming back YES!  So I have changed my strategy to look for one of McIntosh 2105, Levinson 27.5, or and old Krell KSA 80.  Not many around so must be patient.  Also will need an adapter for HPs - but worth it.   That said - I still have an old, fully restored, Sherwood 7100a on my nightstand just to keep on foot in the water.   Also, I will admit that if you are going to dump some big coin into a vintage receiver, the old upper end Pioneers are nice - but I will not have the cash for an SX1980 any time soon.


----------



## MattTCG

As much as I love the Pioneers that I've owned (sx650, 890, 1050, 1250 and 1280), I'd take the fisher 500c over them all. I've come close to owning one a few times, but it just didn't pan out. One day though, one day.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 500c is one on my list too.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Wow, so you find the he-6 mids appreciable better than the lcd2.2? I was only able to audition the he-6 for a brief session at a meet and have not got to spend any real time with it. Of course, the real issue for both of the hp's is the weight. Unfortunately the only flagship that is nice and light and very comfortable is the hd800. Based on reputation, I might love it or hate it as it seems to be somewhat polarizing. If someone here is rocking the hd800 please let me know what you think.


 
  
 LCD-2 not the revision...


----------



## Mr. Morden

silent one said:


> Silver-faced foxes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well sure, but who said amps weren't good lookin' too?

  
  

  
  

  

  
 Can't tell me those aren't sexy. I especially like that Accuphase P400. It looks just as good with the cover off too:

  
 I gotta stop looking at this stuff, it's making me want to spend lots of money that I shouldn't...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And that Accuphase is the baby...


----------



## musicman59

skylab said:


> Wow! Didn't know anyone else had one of these! Been using one for a couple years myself, GREAT rack!


 
 Holly Crap Rob!
 This set and a pair of Klipsch Cornwall II in walnut finish and I would be in vintage audio heaven!
 Congrats on an awesome vintage system.


----------



## MattTCG

Can anyone with the hd800 comment on how it would pair with a vintage receiver, particularly Pioneer sx series.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Can anyone with the hd800 comment on how it would pair with a vintage receiver, particularly Pioneer sx series.


 
 I think they pair great. I sold off my Audio gd amp when I got my SX550 paired with the HD800's. 
  
 They are the best hp's I've heard so far. They aren't bright headphones and will sound like whatever you feed them. The only problem some peeps have with them is the one peak at about 6khz. This has never been a problem for me and I've had to equalize hp's before, mainly AKG and Beyer. This one little peak is only going to be annoying if you don't want the added detail that this gives. But all you have to do with a vintage amp is turn the treble down one notch... 
  
 I like the way they react to vintage amps and the high impedance output. This adds authority and fullness to the bottom end. They sound huge, warm and detailed.
  
 I've owned the HD650's HD600's HD595's and none of these are on par with the current flags in any area. And I'm a big big fan of the HD650/600. 
  
 Sold?


----------



## SpeakerBox

@Mr. Morden - love the old Threshold stuff too.  Nelson Pass, got to love em.


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> I think they pair great. I sold off my Audio gd amp when I got my SX550 paired with the HD800's.
> 
> They are the best hp's I've heard so far. They aren't bright headphones and will sound like whatever you feed them. The only problem some peeps have with them is the one peak at about 6khz. This has never been a problem for me and I've had to equalize hp's before, mainly AKG and Beyer. This one little peak is only going to be annoying if you don't want the added detail that this gives. But all you have to do with a vintage amp is turn the treble down one notch...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whew...where do I sign. My only concerns with the hd800 was:
  
 1. Could I afford the right amp for them?
  
 2. Would I have an issue with the brightness?
  
 It seems based on your estimation, that even my sx890 would be a good pairing. The sx1050 would even be that much better. 
  
 LugBug...as time permits would you mind adding some specifics on the hd800 as compared to the hd650. We can move this conversation to pm if too off topic. 
  
 thanks...


----------



## Silent One

mr. morden said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Silver-faced foxes...
> ...


 
  





 I got love for both offerings.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Those meters!!!! I'm a sucker for the meters.


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> ^^ Those meters!!!! I'm a sucker for the meters.


 
 Me toooooo


----------



## MattTCG

I've spend a good bit of time with the sx890 over the past day. Well, call me impressed. While it's not quite in the same league with the 1050 and 1280, it's an impressive receiver. It drives the large advents with aplomb. The bass comes across with good authority and the mids are liquid. 
  
 Just listened to Muddy Waters: Folk Singer on this setup. I listened from start to finish cuase I just couldn't bring myself to stop. Wow!!


----------



## MIKELAP

matttcg said:


> Can anyone with the hd800 comment on how it would pair with a vintage receiver, particularly Pioneer sx series.


 
  
 Im running a pair with my pioneer SX750 and there as pleasant to listen to as with my other amps plus you have tone control gotta love that if i had only that amp i would be happy but thats my opinion. The only thing theres a slight hum when nothings playing i think LugBug1 pointed that out once dont remember details about that dont know if its related to impedance or something else .


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > ^^ Those meters!!!! I'm a sucker for the meters.
> ...


 
  
 I remember last year being stuck on a web page for nearly 20 minutes - a McIntosh gif with the blue needles just bouncin'...


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks Mike. I think that it's time to give the hd800 a shot.


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> I remember last year being stuck on a web page for nearly 20 minutes - a McIntosh gif with the blue needles just bouncin'...


 
 Yeah baby! Those meters combined with the aesthetics is pure eye candy!


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

matttcg said:


> Can anyone with the hd800 comment on how it would pair with a vintage receiver, particularly Pioneer sx series.


 
  
 I have been running the HD800 from my SX-1050 consistently for the past week or so and have very much enjoyed the combination. It's sort of an experiment to see if I can move my Bryston BHA-1 into my living room (to use as headamp & preamp) without adding back in a dedicated headphone amp in the office. So far so good.
  
 MacBook Pro > Bryston BDA-2 > SX-1050 > HD800


----------



## LugBug1

mikelap said:


> Im running a pair with my pioneer SX750 and there as pleasant to listen to as with my other amps plus you have tone control gotta love that if i had only that amp i would be happy but thats my opinion. The only thing theres a slight hum when nothings playing i think LugBug1 pointed that out once dont remember details about that dont know if its related to impedance or something else .


 
 Yeah thats right Mike, they will show any hums if there is any, as they are very sensitive even though they are high impedance. (I've pm'd Matt with a comparison with the 650's.)


----------



## ssrock64

Matt, are you looking at the HD800 because of comfort concerns with other TOTL cans?


----------



## MattTCG

ssrock64 said:


> Matt, are you looking at the HD800 because of comfort concerns with other TOTL cans?


 
  
 Yes. I've owned just about every mid fi hp on the planet and some TOTL hp's and the TOTL because of weight and comfort issues. I've neither owned nor heard the hd800, but with Lug Bug's comparison I'm ready to pull the trigger.


----------



## DemonFox

Does anyone here have any experience with the Onkyo TX-2500 found a mint one locally but not sure how it sounds or how well it'll work with headphones. I think it has around 30 watts per channel @ 8 ohm. If anyone either owns or has tried it please speak up! I'd love to hear your thoughts! 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Skylab

HD-800 would be good used with a high quality vintage amp that also has flexible tone controls :evil:


----------



## ssrock64

I've never owned an HD800, but I've auditioned multiple pairs and I really liked it each time. When I was first getting into the hobby is blew me away, and even now it's still impressive.


----------



## MattTCG

skylab said:


> HD-800 would be good used with a high quality vintage amp that also has flexible tone controls


 
  
 Just finished reading your review. Thanks for that. I figure between the sx890, 1050 and lyr I should have something that would make the hd800 happy.


----------



## DemonFox

skylab said:


> HD-800 would be good used with a high quality vintage amp that also has flexible tone controls


 
  
 Crazy that you do need tone controls or modding to make the $1400 HD800's shine correctly  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## LugBug1

He's never tried them with his SX1980.... I'm sure he'd have no need for tone controls now 
  
incidentally, Skylabs HD800 review is one of - if not the best out there. Simply because as usual he was brutally honest, and well.. a great reviewer. Who incidentally needs to come out of retirement and do the K812... )
But I would also like to add... If I may... That the treble of the HD800's seems to be far less a problem these days. Seriously.. More and more people are buying these who where originally put off by thinking that they are a bright and harsh headphone. And then surprised that they aren't, including myself. The K701/2's are a bright hp, so are the DT880. Grado's are murderous...! 
  
(my quote of the day ' There are less peaks than valley's with the HD800's.' 
  
Anyhow. HD800 + Vintage amp = smile. (IME)


----------



## Meewoo

demonfox said:


> Does anyone here have any experience with the Onkyo TX-2500 found a mint one locally but not sure how it sounds or how well it'll work with headphones. I think it has around 30 watts per channel @ 8 ohm. If anyone either owns or has tried it please speak up! I'd love to hear your thoughts!
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 
  
 I had Onkyo Tx-2500, sold it. It looks nice with real glass panel.
 Regarding sound, I will quote from Aker wmgwizard


> The best/worst thing I could say about the Onkyo is that it did not sound like anything. Very neutral, not warm but not bright either. Plenty of power but no personality.


 
 If my remember correctly, it's a tiny bit dark too, but just no involving,
  
 Regarding Yamaha, this Aker also did right to me.


> The CA 2010 is currently on "loan" to my brother(don't expect it back anytime soon). It has that "natural sound"; very clean, with a little warmth and a touch of brightness. IMHO its what music should sound like.


 
 Warm in LF, bright in HF.
  
 You can check http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=551482&highlight=onkyo
  
 I saw you have lot of phones, why not adventure in vintage Iron and decide yourself like your phone journey?. Low models are not expensive, after exploring all brands, then you can go after TOTL of your favorite brand.


----------



## parbaked

How fun is this .gif. I love the moving meters and woofers.
 Any guesses on the components...


----------



## Mr. Morden

Vintage Yamaha stuff is a bit scary. Some of their parts are unobtainium and I've had quite a number of issues with various models. I had a CA-610 that had a really long power up delay and one of the control pots made a channel drop out if you moved it off of 0. A friend has a CR-840 I think and it's totally dead. It was working, then he tried to replace the bulb (Yes, the bulb, as in one of the dial lamps) and the whole thing doesn't work now. Had another one, a higher quality 80's integrated where the muting was stuck on - yep, no button only on the remote and power off didn't forget either. No battery either. Finally the output just died on it. I'll always dig Yamaha for their looks, but they aren't too reliable in my experience. Then again I've had problems with Sansui as well. Ugh, I had a 9090 that was nothing but a paperweight. Was dead as a receiver, power amp, and a preamp. Never handled anything as massive that was just scrap besides that, I don't know what people do to tear up amps so badly. I guess it's to be expected with vintage gear, though most of my Marantz, Luxman, Kenwood, and HH Scott gear have worked great. Heck, that Scott I posted earlier was in a barn and it showed. Works like a champ, just needed deoxit in the controls.


----------



## LugBug1

parbaked said:


> How fun is this .gif. I love the moving meters and woofers.
> Any guesses on the components...


 
 That is cool. I see some Rotel?  no idea what they are though..


----------



## Silent One

- Team Sansui


----------



## Mach-X

Hey I just realized the topic is 'vintage integrated receiver' owners...does that exclude my sony rig since it's technically an integrated amp + tuner? If so, how far back is vintage? I might have something I bought brand new in 1994 when I was a 16 year old pup...


----------



## Meewoo

mach-x said:


> Hey I just realized the topic is 'vintage integrated receiver' owners...does that exclude my sony rig since it's technically an integrated amp + tuner? If so, how far back is vintage? I might have something I bought brand new in 1994 when I was a 16 year old pup...


 
  
 The Title is "...integrated/receiver..." which included integrated amp, you are qualified.
  "Vintage" usually means before 84ish.
  
 But our OP moodryn always welcome people talk all the things like separates and new. So just make yourself home!


----------



## Mach-X

I think we should make it so that anything pre dsp is vintage, (no dolby or video) so I can post my near 20 year old treasure


----------



## brunk

mach-x said:


> I think we should make it so that anything pre dsp is vintage, (no dolby or video) so I can post my near 20 year old treasure


 
 Post it! I'm all eyes and ears


----------



## Mr. Morden

It's probably easier to say "Vintage Silver Faced" when referencing that era of before the mid-'80s since primarily everything was silver. I guess you could call the slightly newer but still older stuff "Vintage Black Faced". But then those black versions of the old '70s gear and the silver versions of newer vintage gear would throw a wrench into the naming. Maybe we should do like cars, where there's the "Muscle car era" being the late '60s through much of the '70s, and the "Classic car era" which you could generally say is the '50s up to the late '60s. Calling anything BPC is a bit inaccurate, because I've had some SMC - Silver Metal Crap. Some of the lower end models of old equipment was not too hot. I had a base model Hitachi and it worked alright for the bedroom but when I got a deal on a better amp that thing was outta there. Had that real cheap feeling tuner knob, weighed nothing, sounded just ok at best. Also some BPG - Black Plastic Gold (Ok this one sucked, but I couldn't come up with anything better) - good sounding gear like this. NAD comes to mind, though I'm moving away from NAD for reliability reasons (none of my stuff has issues but I'm concerned they might develop it).
  
 Going on that idea of before DSP doesn't catch it all though. Some brands continued to make stuff with no digital anything on their equipment on into the '90s and still to this day. Like one of those Emotiva preamps has nothing but analog inputs on it, that paired with one of their power amps has no DSP involved anywhere.


----------



## DemonFox

brunk said:


> mach-x said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should make it so that anything pre dsp is vintage, (no dolby or video) so I can post my near 20 year old treasure
> ...


 
  
 +1
  
 Post it! 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## DemonFox

silent one said:


> - Team Sansui


 
  
  
 OOOooooo Shiney!! What is that?? Sansui what?? Is that Vintage?? Its looks beautiful 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Silent One

The model is a G-22000 either 1978 or 79, still have to nail it down but it's one or the other. The speaker taps are located on either side of the receiver, which is 25" wide. So, my pigtail cable have a 36" split.


----------



## DemonFox

meewoo said:


> Warm in LF, bright in HF.
> 
> You can check http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=551482&highlight=onkyo
> 
> I saw you have lot of phones, why not adventure in vintage Iron and decide yourself like your phone journey?. Low models are not expensive, after exploring all brands, then you can go after TOTL of your favorite brand.


 
  
 That's exactly what I intend on doing! I really want to hear how they sound with my headphones plus I have some Infinity towers and bookshelves that need some love and putting them in my office would be bad *****!! I like the looks of that Sansui but I have no idea what it is or how much it cost but I'm loving the research!! 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Trav

phoenixg said:


> I use this guy - originally from Bestbuy, but found on CL. Attractive, well built, heavy, and BIG. I had my KR-9600 on the middle shelf and the SX-1980 on the bottom shelf and it had room for more. I think it's 59'' wide and 28 deep on the bottom.


Wow Phoenix I just picked up almost the exact same rack for $6.99 at my local thrift shop. I love it.


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> The model is a G-22000 either 1978 or 79, still have to nail it down but it's one or the other. The speaker taps are located on either side of the receiver, which is 25" wide. So, my pigtail cable have a 36" split.


 
 I'd bet if you open it and dig around with a flashlight and magnifying glass you'll find a date on a component somewhere.


----------



## Silent One

During the Spurs - Lakers, I'd better hit CL!


----------



## Meewoo

mr. morden said:


> A random but related question, why do people have such an obsession with Pioneer gear? I never have figured that out. Not knocking them since I have a few old Pioneers but I don't get why people seem to collect them and pay such outrageous prices (Seen the prices for SX-1250s lately?). Their sound is not bad, but it's not the best out there either. Nothing wrong with that, but if I hadn't got my Pioneers for cheap there's no way I would pay their going prices. Some of them cost as much as McIntosh and some high-end amplifiers, which seems silly to me considering what you get compared to those.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Mr Morden, after a long thought, I couldn't help trying to answer some your questions. But first, I must claim that I am not a Pioneer fan (or I don't care Pioneer sound at all) even though I have Sa-9100, SX-1250, SX-727 and another A-?? (and I had SX-1010, SX-650, SX-1050, SX-D7000, Sa-9500II in past three years). Second, I am not receiver fan also, now I go integrated or separate exclusively. So I am more like you.
  
 Since we all here, we all know 70's provided excellent audio products. Comparing 70's receivers and amp to today's audio product in certain price range, most us agree that 70's products has more quality. And Pionner products belonged to the top tier of good quality brands. And Pionny really had a good marketing strategy teem which kept consistent 2 years period product updating and set price in the right place. If you check same wpc products on Ak, pionner's price is lower than Marantz and Sansui but higher than Kenwood, technics and many other small brands. Their  price just kept them as a premium brand but with more price attractions, which resulted they sold largest volume in 70's (according many Aker). Those consistent 2 years product updating played big role 2, it showed how confidence the company had in its product and kept them a premium image in public (not like Kenwood (or Marantz) played catching game).
  
 Those largest sale also created the largest fan base, eventually it provides wide availability and rich information from any sources today. So Pionner vintage products are popular today. Then look today's home audio brands, Sansu and Kenwood are long gone. Pionner, Marantz, Yamaha are still here. So newcomers can still get in touch with those brands and developed new fan base. Combine those and many other factors, Pioneer may still have the largest fan base here in USA. High demand with adequate supply, we have active market, which can eventually lead to some high price models. Did you notice Marantz also fetches a lot of money nowadays? Yamaha isn't such big layer in 70s. I conjure that if Sansui is still liv in Home audio market today, Sansui may fetch higher price than Pioneer today.
  
 As for popularity of receivers, do we refer 70's "receiver war" other than "amp war". More receivers produced than integrated or separates in 70's, and easy access in today's market makes receiver seams more popular here or on Ak.
  
 As for your A-27, it's on the edge of silver era, I though few people here even know this great amp since many here only know SA models. I think I posted A-27 eBay link 2 weeks ago here, but seams even Pioneer fans didn't care. The very good nice condition a-27 ended with 610.01, and I was the one who bid $600.01 and the third highest bid with $566.  Someone just got very good deals. BTW, A-27 was sold same price as Pioneer SX-1980 in 1981. Are you only mad because your A-27 doesn't bring same money as SX-1980?(joking
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> This is a point I made a few months back.  All the vintage receivers I have heard are lacking compared to similarly priced vintage high end gear.  So, I had to ask myself - am I truly in this for the sound?  The answer kept coming back YES!  So I have changed my strategy to look for one of McIntosh 2105, Levinson 27.5, or and old Krell KSA 80.  Not many around so must be patient.  Also will need an adapter for HPs - but worth it.   That said - I still have an old, fully restored, Sherwood 7100a on my nightstand just to keep on foot in the water.   Also, I will admit that if you are going to dump some big coin into a vintage receiver, the old upper end Pioneers are nice - but I will not have the cash for an SX1980 any time soon.


 
  
 I do think sound preference is personal, I haven't heard Levinson or Krell. I did heared some Macs, but the sound is just not my cup of tea. I really don't understand that why people regard mac are so high premium brand. I did agree they are premium since middle 80's. But their early generation SS stuff (70s), they were not even sold as high price as Sansui (correct me if I am wrong). Another high end brands today suffer that they lack a product which can let people experience. Not like Pionner SX-1980, people can really get experience from lower model and dream to pursue it. Mark Levinson usually had lower sibling Proceed let people experince their house sound, but proceed was long gone too.  Does Krell have lower sibling?
 Another thing, do we really have a whole system which let us hear the 10-30% audio improvement with huge price increase in amps?
 In used market, do I really want to spend around $1000 into Krell and may later find out I don't like it sound at all? On the other side, I can buy Pionner sx-850 for $250 and experience it's sound and may later find I like it very much. Besides, those Krell and Levinson rarely popped up locally since they are high end.
  
  
  
 And I do wish you gentlemen let sleepers sleep!!  If more people buy popular brands with higher price, there are few people compete with me in sleepers. Haha, just my evil thoughts!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Cheers, we all like this hobby!!!


----------



## DefQon

matttcg said:


> Whew...where do I sign. My only concerns with the hd800 was:
> 
> 1. Could I afford the right amp for them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll give you my 2cent's when I had the HD800 on some of the vintage Marantz amp's I've tried. It glossed over the sound signature and took too much away unfortunately.


----------



## Mr. Morden

meewoo said:


> Mr Morden, after a long thought, I couldn't help trying to answer some your questions. But first, I must claim that I am not a Pioneer fan (or I don't care Pioneer sound at all) even though I have Sa-9100, SX-1250, SX-727 and another A-?? (and I had SX-1010, SX-650, SX-1050, SX-D7000, Sa-9500II in past three years). Second, I am not receiver fan also, now I go integrated or separate exclusively. So I am more like you.
> 
> Since we all here, we all know 70's provided excellent audio products. Comparing 70's receivers and amp to today's audio product in certain price range, most us agree that 70's products has more quality. And Pionner products belonged to the top tier of good quality brands. And Pionny really had a good marketing strategy teem which kept consistent 2 years period product updating and set price in the right place. If you check same wpc products on Ak, pionner's price is lower than Marantz and Sansui but higher than Kenwood, technics and many other small brands. Their  price just kept them as a premium brand but with more price attractions, which resulted they sold largest volume in 70's (according many Aker). Those consistent 2 years product updating played big role 2, it showed how confidence the company had in its product and kept them a premium image in public (not like Kenwood (or Marantz) played catching game).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure everyone would agree that vintage gear has more quality than modern gear. Modern equipment made some large improvements that made them more reliable and better sounding than their vintage counterpart. The advantage of vintage is the lower cost, which is not always exclusive. The example of stuff like the SX-1250 comes to mind ($500-600 on the low end and $1,200-1,500 high), compared to an Emotiva XPA-200 with a USP-1 preamp. The Emotiva set will run you just under $800, new with warranty and will get to you in one piece. A Pioneer SX-1250 will be $500-600 with $100+ shipping or possibly the higher scale and still this much, and has a higher chance of being poorly packaged by an eBayer. No warranty, high chance of being unrestored unless you buy the high end spectrum. Lets say you did so they have the fairest footing to compare, now you've paid $1,000+ for a vintage amp that is of course like new. It's rated at 160 wpc, and will perform quite well. The XPA-200 is rated at 150 wpc, and will perform excellently considering advancements in amplifier design (There are really too many to list, on a critical level). 10 watts will make no audible difference so both will drive most anything with ease. If you splurged for the XPA-100 monoblocks, you'd be right at $1,000 roughly. Now you'd go up to 250 wpc along with having a pair of monoblock amps.
  
 If you could get the SX-1250 for a lot cheaper, it would be a great competitor on bargain but at its going rate it makes sense for nostalgia fans more than audiophiles. Kind of like vintage muscle cars. They're really cool looking, very different, and represent a different era of car design. But compare even a restored Camaro with a 350 to a brand new Camaro SS. The new Camaro will outperform it, handle better, have more luxury features than the original Camaro and will cost less, both in purchase price and maintenance (Carbureted vs. Fuel injection - no real comparison here). I wouldn't knock anyone for buying the classic Camaro because it's an icon and it's cool looking. But to do it under a presumption that the performance is better than a modern car is naive. Vintage power amp designs were more cutting edge for their time than any receiver, thus why I still think some vintage power amplifiers are great respectable choices for high end sound. The receivers were always a step behind the same brand's own power amplifiers, sometimes that still meant the receiver was great (A la SX-1250). Look at the Spec-2 for the comparison to the SX-1250. Actually the Exclusive M3 was similarly power rated, but a more elaborate internal design. 
  
 I'll say this though, the amount of watts any amp produces is hardly the indicator of quality. I'll kindly point to First Watt amplifiers to exemplify this, but Class A amps and heck even just AB amps are great examples of this. High watts are truly only needed if you have some highly inefficient speakers or are driving to excessive volume levels. Not trying to knock it, but Pioneer is not really a premium brand in the sense you're saying. That would've been Luxman, McIntosh, Accuphase, and similar. I hardly think this means the stuff that wasn't premium wasn't still good, but it shouldn't be confused for something it wasn't. As far as the A-27 goes, it breaks with the traditional Pioneer look. For me I love this, because I don't care for the normal Pioneer look - far too many knobs and buttons. The A-27 has more of a H/K kind of light silver powder coated kind of finish that looks great IMO. I actually had almost every piece in the Series 20 line (M-22, M-25, C-21 preamp, F-28 tuner, D-23 crossover network, and the A-27 which I kept). The power amps are exotic looking and were sold in limited markets. I have paper work for the Series 20 gear and the original owner bought it all from New York (I even have the dealer cost of some of these models, only includes Series 20 gear though). I recall it was said the Series 20 line was where they told their engineers to make the amp they wanted, unlike the normal Pioneer units which were made for specific markets and price points. The SX-1980 was just obscene and I'm sure a bunch of people were sold on the fact it was such a huge receiver. Some people love receivers, and it's one of the higher powered ones (Technics took the trophy as I recall though with the SA-1000 at 330 watts per channel). Personally, I'd be terrified of the reliability of a vintage receiver with that much power as that's way too much to cram into one box.
  
 I was part of a rather lengthy discussion on a thread about the modern vs. vintage debate at AK, I'm decidedly a fan of quality modern gear but still love vintage gear for their looks and build quality. But paying modern gear prices for vintage performance isn't something I'd be willing to do. Heck, almost all of my vintage amps have been bought for under $100 (This includes the Series 20 gear if you divide the price per piece). Really nice modern gear just doesn't show up on the used market for great prices like vintage gear does, used modern gear offerings are usually the big retail box receivers and usually their cheaper lines. But sometimes nice modern pieces show up for great prices - I bought an Integra DTR 9.9, Integra's $2600 flagship 7.1 receiver from 2009 for $100 from an audio installer who got it after they installed a system in a customer's house. They were selling older, lower end (By comparison) Marantz 7.1 AVRs (Talking circa 2004) for $150. I still have no idea why, but am not complaining. I had to buy the remote for it, but it was only $50. Listening to the Integra right now, it's the receiver for my PC system


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> - Team Sansui


 
 Lookin very smart! TEAM SANSUI!!!


----------



## LugBug1

Some great posts MR Morden and Meewoo, nice reading


----------



## LugBug1

defqon said:


> I'll give you my 2cent's when I had the HD800 on some of the vintage Marantz amp's I've tried. It glossed over the sound signature and took too much away unfortunately.


 
 Always respect your posts bro 
  
 But I must argue a point here because its a headphone that I've now got quite a bit of experience with and especially with vintage gear. First, I'm not sure what amp or amps you tried with them but 'rubbish in - rubbish out' applies more with this headphone than any other that I've tried. When paired with a lower end early marantz for e.g. Indeed the sound is poop. Dull, unfocused and lifeless. Agreed. But it's defo not the fault of the headphone, but the amp that is to blame. 
  
 I'm not saying the HD800's are the greatest hp or the _most_ transparent out there. But they are very transparent. The better the vintage amp, the better they will sound. It's really as simple as that. But even say, the lowly SX550 will give you a full bodied and musical experience with the HD800's that beats many headphone amps - if you want that type of sound. But I must stress here that this seems to be the sound that most people strive for when they fork out thousands on high end tube amps. The HD800's on most mid price hp amps that I've heard give you the highly detailed, fast and verging on 'clinical' sound that may work when you plug LCD2's or hifimans in. But the Transparency of the HD800's as always lays everything bare and shows the coldness of these brighter than neutral amps. 
  
 So, the way I see it is, you can build a Crack amp or pay through the nose for an amp that is capable of a little warmth over plain neutrality or you can plug them into an old amp that has a similar sound signature as tubes.
  
 But of course not all vintage amps will synergize. This would be madness to claim it, if they all sounded the same then we'd all just own one. The two amps that work for me and the HD800's are my Sansui 551 and my NAD3020. Both amps are a little warmer than neutral but with a refinement that the HD800's tease out. Loads of subtle details, that are never thrust at you or annoying. The bass is deep and although Its not as tight as through a dedicated amp, to me it is more pleasing and full sounding. 
  
 Some argue that the high impedance of vintage amps (average 120ohm) is too much for the 300 ohm Senns. But I would argue that any good tube amp will have a similar output. And there is no argument when it come to tubes with the HD800 and how good they sound. Vintage amps for me give me a kind of 'tube sound' that fills the drivers with lovely- lovely musical treacle that encompasses my inner being and coats it with a warmth that only a mother can give to a child that is cold and unhappy. A feeling of inner strength and 'wholeness' not dissimilar to a lovers embrace as you become one in the moment. A Mozart crescendo for e.g can catch you unaware, gently cupping its warm hand round your scrotum and squeezing without any pain caused as Don Giovanni gets his comings. A silky sweep of violin from the slender fingers of violinist Miss Hahn can cause a shiver up your back ending in an afflicted like twitch in your left cheek. The same kind of twitch you get when you finally get to scratch your anus after it has been causing you annoyance and irritation all afternoon at the shopping mall - making you mince rather than walk normal.. Causing unwanted stares from security guards and protective mothers alike.. An itch you were unable to relieve until you had no choice but to check into an empty elevator at M&S to finally get to work on it. Haaaaaah thats better! I could go on... But I best not. The plot is lost


----------



## MattTCG

^^Nice post LugBug. Quick question. Regarding the slight hiss you can get on the hd800 with vintage amps. I'm guess that you don't find it a distraction. But can you hear it during quiet passages, such as in classical music? 
  
  
 thanks...


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> ^^Nice post LugBug. Quick question. Regarding the slight hiss you can get on the hd800 with vintage amps. I'm guess that you don't find it a distraction. But can you hear it during quiet passages, such as in classical music?
> 
> 
> thanks...


 
 Thanks 
 I must stress that there is no hiss at all on some of my amps with the Senns. My Nad is as quiet as any hp amp, My Marantz (b) SX550, 551 and technics are same at low to medium volume. 
  
 Basically it will come down to the individual amp. But it does annoy me on my Pioneer SA508 when listening to classical (quiet passages) also the hum on my AU505... Listening to Jazz or Rock it doesn't bother me at all. So in that respect it comes down to musical preferences. 
  
 I use my Nad as a bedside amp because it is so quiet. I use the HD800's for late night music and critical listening, I wouldn't be able to tolerate any hiss in that situation. In my main rig which is downstairs, the noise of my computer and of course my family etc can be louder than the hiss I get off my noisier amps, so it is less bothersome there. 
  
 So its not just a case that there will be hiss with the HD800 on all vintage amps, only the ones that have a slight mismatch with impedance ime. And the HD800's will show it more than most other hps of a similar impedance. My 600's are quieter and they are 300 ohms too.


----------



## brunk

Excellent informative posts you guys, and LugBug, your humor made me LOL. In regards to hiss of HD-800 and speaker taps, you can simply make or buy a voltage divider (impedance box) to kill off some of the excess power which will mostly likely result in an elimination of hiss.


----------



## SpeakerBox

> I do think sound preference is personal, I haven't heard Levinson or Krell. I did heared some Macs, but the sound is just not my cup of tea. I really don't understand that why people regard mac are so high premium brand. I did agree they are premium since middle 80's. But their early generation SS stuff (70s), they were not even sold as high price as Sansui (correct me if I am wrong). Another high end brands today suffer that they lack a product which can let people experience. Not like Pionner SX-1980, people can really get experience from lower model and dream to pursue it. Mark Levinson usually had lower sibling Proceed let people experince their house sound, but proceed was long gone too.  Does Krell have lower sibling?
> Another thing, do we really have a whole system which let us hear the 10-30% audio improvement with huge price increase in amps?
> In used market, do I really want to spend around $1000 into Krell and may later find out I don't like it sound at all? On the other side, I can buy Pionner sx-850 for $250 and experience it's sound and may later find I like it very much. Besides, those Krell and Levinson rarely popped up locally since they are high end.
> 
> ...


 
  
 For the most part I agree with you comments on Macs - I am generally not a fan either.  That said as I understand it the 2105 is a bit of an exception to the rule - an outstanding solid-state amp.  Have not heard one yet but will at some point.  Had a Proceed Amp 3 for a couple of years and it has the Levinson house sound.  Very detailed and clean (maybe too much for me), with virtually no warmth.  Gave it up for bridged Jeff Rowland Model 1s which have the detail and some warmth.  A lower sibling for Krell would be Aragon, as rumor has it Dan D’Agostino designed some of them.  As with all his designs - awesome bass!  As with most of these items they do tend to retain value - so if you don't like them you can sell and get your money back.


----------



## Meewoo

@SpeakerBox,
  
 Is Aragon high brand for Mondial? I know Acurus was low sibling for Aragon, but not knowing Aragon linked with Krell. Or could you let me know which models were designed by Don D'Agostino (or he was involved)?
  
 BTW, why Pass Labs and Bryston aren't in your list? Another BTW, was Don connected with Bryston too? I couldn't google the results. Thanks!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

meewoo said:


> @SpeakerBox,
> 
> Is Aragon high brand for Mondial? I know Acurus was low sibling for Aragon, but not knowing Aragon linked with Krell. Or could you let me know which models were designed by Don D'Agostino (or he was involved)?
> 
> BTW, why Pass Labs and Bryston aren't in your list? Another BTW, was Don connected with Bryston too? I couldn't google the results. Thanks!!


 
  
 Correct on the Mondial/Aragon relationship.  Not sure how Dan A. got involved with the Aragon stuff - but as I recall models like 8008BB had his touch.  You may have to Google some to get other models.  The information is out there.  Pass Labs stuff is just too expensive on used market - but I would certainly consider Threshold.  There are some excellent amps in that line that can be had for reasonable prices if you are patient.  As far a Bryston (don't think Dan associated here) - they tend to be too bright for me.  I am sure you have heard the nick name they were given "Brightston".  I am very sensitive to that - in fact I hate a overly bright sound - thus my love for the Rowlands - which can verge on being dark.


----------



## Fearless1

Going to contact about a 1978 Kenwood KR9000G today, looks like a beast.  Any experience/thoughts/ feedback would be appreciated?


----------



## MattTCG

Wish that I could help you, but I've never heard it. If it sounds as good as it looks, then I'd buy it for sure.


----------



## kstuart

mach-x said:


> Hey I just realized the topic is 'vintage integrated receiver' owners...does that exclude my sony rig since it's technically an integrated amp + tuner? If so, how far back is vintage? I might have something I bought brand new in 1994 when I was a 16 year old pup...


 
 The word "vintage" comes from wines, which are of two types - everyday table wines, which are drunk within the year of release, and just have the name of the winery on the bottle, and "vintage" wines, which have the year when the grapes were harvested.   So, table wines are only seen when they are new, while "vintage" wines may be kept in a cellar and then brought out to drink later, which often improves the taste.
  
 So, the word "vintage" means "something which is older, is characteristic of when it was made, has been stored carefully to preserve it, and is better quality than current disposable items".
  
 People who only know words from seeing them in context, get the idea that "vintage" is interchangeable with "retro", and in fact, the "Madmen" TV show seems to have spawned a fad for any sort of clothes or furnishing from older eras.
  
 But, technically, Denon D2000 headphones are "vintage", even though only from 5 years ago, because they are no longer sold as new.


----------



## kstuart

LugBug1 -
  
 Are there drunken people singing in the streets tonight ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And please post your 650 vs 800 comparison here, I don't think it is off-topic, since it comes from the desire to use headphones with vintage equipment.


----------



## LugBug1

kstuart said:


> LugBug1 -
> 
> Are there drunken people singing in the streets tonight ?
> 
> ...


 
 The Newcastle game..? Ha yes indeedy! 
  
 Here you go bud,


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I'll try and lay it down without any bias..! 
  
 Bass- I like the 650 bass, it has that nice welcome mid hump and punches very nicely, but it doesn't have great extension or clarity compared to the 800. What you get with the 800 is clarity of bass. Take a jazz ensemble for e.g. The 650's might render the bass drum and double bass nicely, but you can't differentiate between them when the music gets complicated. There's no hump with the 800's and it extends as low as poss. It's much bigger in scope and you really feel the atmosphere of the lower strings rather than just the thud. 
  
 Mids- I like the 650 mids aswell. They are rich and what I'd describe as fun. Fun because all music sounds good on them. But what they do lack is resolution compared to the 800's. Classical music (strings) will sound sound thick and full with the 650's. This is nice, but the 800's let you appreciate the layering of the orchestration more. The finer details that you would pick out at a concert can sometimes get lost with the thicker sounding 650's. There is more light and shade with the 800's- more depth. Speed is also to be noted here. I've never though the 650's lacked speed but the HD800's are faster still. Theres also the all important tonality. All the top Senn's have great tone, this is what I love about them. But what the 800's give you is a realism that I'd not heard before with hp's. It can be really breathtaking when you first get them. I was very impressed in this regard. Unfortunately I've had them quite a while now and so I think I take it for granted a bit. 
  
 Treble- I've never been a treble head. And so I do like the 650's treble. Having said that, it wasn't until I heard really good treble with other hp's that I started to feel they were lacking. The HE500 to name one. (I sold my 650's after getting them after 6 years!) I just couldn't go back to the 650's after this. They sounded dull in comparison. The 800's have a similar treble as the he500's imo. It's nice and sharp but not bright as other 'bright' hp's. Its hard to explain but imagine some card with holes in and you shine a torch through. You get shards of light coming through. The card may be a dark colour, but there are parts that are illuminated. 
 If you check the 800 freq chart, you'll notice quite a substantial dip in the high mids. This is the opposite to bright headphones, AKG, Grado e.g. the 800's then they peak back up at about 6k and then as normal with most phones at 10k. This gives the mids prominence with added detail from the peaks of the treble, without the lower treble emphasis which causes fatigue and hardness ime.
  
 I sold both my HE500's and LCD2's for the HD800's. Never looked back. 
  
 One word of caution though, they are more sensitive than both the 650/600's and will show any hiss more than other headphones. So if you have an old amp that displays hiss with 650's it will be a lot worse with the 800's. 
 Because they are more sensitive they are easier to drive and sound very good out of most amps contrary to belief. But I love how they sound out of vintage amps. As I said in my original post, they will sound like whatever you feed them. A warm amp will sound warm. A bright amp will sound bright. 
  
 A quick word on soundstage, it blows the 650/600 away, both in imaging and size. Width height and positioning. The band appears more in front of you as well as the sides. Don't expect it to be a crazy size as some peeps remark. It's a nice size and larger than most headphones. 
  
 I'm sure you already know about the comfort being very good. They are a little heavier than the 650's. But the weight is not noticeable once they are on your head as they are very balanced in that regard. 
  
 I totally understand why peeps still rate the 650's highly. They are unique in making everything sound great, with fantastic tonality with a none fatiguing pleasant signature. But The HD800's imo are a true audiophile tool. A tool that has given me the most enjoyment yet out of any hifi equipment that I've owned. Its the most expensive hifi item I've bought, but I would buy them again tomorrow if anything happened to them.


----------



## MattTCG

Those are truly fine impressions and comparisons. Well done!!


----------



## harrinj

Getting a good condition Marantz 4270 from craigslist in an hour or two. I've never done a craigslist thing before... 

I offered $275 and he agreed.  that's somewhat good right? I think that's about as much as its worth. 

I saw a GORGEOUS Marantz 2275 at Audio Specialties in Portland, OR but he wants $750 for it!!! I wonder if its on consignment or something because its not in line with the guys pricing at all or the last one that was a 2270 and he wanted $650 for that! He's got decent prices on all his stuff but that 2270 and this 2275 were a shock!


----------



## harrinj

Got the 4270. Beauty real beauty. Perfect just needs polished up. No hum or nothing. Now I've got the 4240 and the next up 4270 lol. I really want a 4300 still to go with my 4400 ;P LOL 

If I just had more money...


----------



## MattTCG

Do I need to ask for pics? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just checked a few shots of the 4270 on google...looks great!! I have not seen one in person.


----------



## claybum

Stereo Workshop in Eugene has a couple 2270 for sale when I was in there a week ago. I believe his price is about $400.


----------



## harrinj

matttcg said:


> Do I need to ask for pics?   Just checked a few shots of the 4270 on google...looks great!! I have not seen one in person.




I will post pics tonight when I get home and after I polish up the face!!!


----------



## harrinj

claybum said:


> Stereo Workshop in Eugene has a couple 2270 for sale when I was in there a week ago. I believe his price is about $400.




Yes I know he has two both with the wood cases. One is $400 and the slightly cleaner face one is $500. I offered $300 on the $400 a long time ago. 

I won't go to that guy ever again not because of not taking my offer (lol) but he didn't know how to re-string my HK 670 and it was there about a month I came to pick it up he was reluctant to give it back because he wanted to charge me $250 PLUS he has a rediculous $45 fee and he didn't give that back for doing nothing. 

Took it to Doug at Audio Specialties no BS fees and it cost $86 PLUS he re-capped the phono board and I didn't even know it needed it! I will be doing all my business with Doug until I learn to do it myself. I'm also going to take electronics courses at the CC hopefully.


----------



## MattTCG

For polishing the face on vintage steel, I've had good luck with Magic Erasure by Mr Clean. I just pull of all the knobs and switches, wet the erasure and start polishing till it's like new again.


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> For polishing the face on vintage steel, I've had good luck with Magic Erasure by Mr Clean. I just pull of all the knobs and switches, wet the erasure and start polishing till it's like new again.


 
 +1 I've also had great success with Brasso


----------



## jasonb

Nighttime vintage sexyness


----------



## harrinj

matttcg said:


> For polishing the face on vintage steel, I've had good luck with Magic Erasure by Mr Clean. I just pull of all the knobs and switches, wet the erasure and start polishing till it's like new again.




 I do the same thing except I use a wax and a microfiber cloth. The wax makes it so that finger prints aren't as much of an issue.


----------



## harrinj

Is there anyrhing sexier?  especially some of the Marantz with LEDs soooooo nice. The 2275 at audio specialties was miraculous with the blue the LEDs brought.


----------



## jasonb

I think vintage gear lit up at night is even sexier than tubes.


----------



## brunk

jasonb said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sexy indeed. While mine doesn't glow like that, here's my integrated sexiness, along with the HE-6 and speakers I'm enjoying at the moment  I also have a little buddy who enjoys sharing the listening chair with me lol. Sorry for the shoddy pics, from the phone.


Spoiler: Click for pics


----------



## Xovaan

My TA2A doesn't seem to have consistent signal, even after deoxit in the jack. Is there something likely worn down the line? It _is_ getting pretty old.


----------



## captouch

jasonb said:


> I think vintage gear lit up at night is even sexier than tubes.




I wouldn't have argued with that until I saw the blue glow that some tubes give off. Then I changed my mind.


----------



## Meewoo

xovaan said:


> My TA2A doesn't seem to have consistent signal, even after deoxit in the jack. Is there something likely worn down the line? It _is_ getting pretty old.


 
  
 Did you only deoxit phone jack? You have to clean the volume, balance, tremble, bass control pots. Especially volume pot, Nak used low quality part here and it needs consistent clean. My SR-2a requires me to do this consistently. Hope this help.


----------



## harrinj

Unfortunately I've discovered that its not in the best of shape... A lot of the screws were stripped, it appears that something spilled on it and rusted the transformer and something else, the rear input jacks took about an HOUR to scrub clean and those pre input jack jumpers? Took about another jour to clean IVE DISCOVERED that the face was jury rigged on with wire (somehow the screw things where you screw the face on to are all gone but three. Does anyone know what those are called so I can get the face back on and what type of screws I need also?) It also appears that this thing fell because the whole front chassis is bent and who ever tried to fix it was STUPID. It sounds wonderful but this has proven to be a b**** to clean up and try and repair. 

I've got the input jacks all cleaned up and so much grime gone but I don't know what to do about the face. 

I'll pose some more pics what I need help with


----------



## harrinj

What in the world is this inscribed on the face? I missed that when I was looking at it... 



What are these in the top left corner called? I need three more to screw in the faceplate.


----------



## harrinj

This is kinda upsetting.


----------



## harrinj

Well it took about four hours but I got it as clean as I possibly could. This 4270 sounds really amazing, the controls have no noise and there is no hum totally quiet even the phono input is not noisy unlike my 4240 or 4400 (the 4400 is really noisy) 

Now if I could just get the faceplate screwed on I'd be totally happy with it. All the original faceplate screws are stripped so I need to know if one of you very fine fellows knows what kinda screws I'd need and if a place like Ace Hardware would have it? I also need to know about those little posts that the screws screw into. I need four of them because the one that's left is no good, the screw just gets stuck. HOW on earth those would be gone I have not a clue. 

The original Owner or who ever owned it at one point modded it so that the three screws on each side of the chassis was connected to wire and then attached to the faceplate screws to secure it. (It was odd, I should have taken a pic of it before I took it apart it would have been something for you all to see!) 

I don't know what in the world is inscribed on the upper right side of the faceplate or WHY someone would even do that but I got over it. Just wish I could get that faceplate screwed in and enjoy it!


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Well it took about four hours but I got it as clean as I possibly could. This 4270 sounds really amazing, the controls have no noise and there is no hum totally quiet even the phono input is not noisy unlike my 4240 or 4400 (the 4400 is really noisy)
> 
> Now if I could just get the faceplate screwed on I'd be totally happy with it. All the original faceplate screws are stripped so I need to know if one of you very fine fellows knows what kinda screws I'd need and if a place like Ace Hardware would have it? I also need to know about those little posts that the screws screw into. I need four of them because the one that's left is no good, the screw just gets stuck. HOW on earth those would be gone I have not a clue.
> 
> ...




Parkrose Hardware, if you take the one existing screw with you, is probably the only place I know of to have any obscure bit of hardware like that or can get it. They are about five minutes from Doug at 106th and Sandy Blvd in Portland.


----------



## Skylab

jasonb said:


> I think vintage gear lit up at night is even sexier than tubes.




I totally agree. Nighttime listening with all the lights going to just a mesmerizing experience. And I haven't gotten even remotely tired of it


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> I totally agree. Nighttime listening with all the lights going to just a mesmerizing experience. And I haven't gotten even remotely tired of it


 
 Yeah but you have more better lights than most!


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Parkrose Hardware, if you take the one existing screw with you, is probably the only place I know of to have any obscure bit of hardware like that or can get it. They are about five minutes from Doug at 106th and Sandy Blvd in Portland.




But I still need something to screw them into! The little posts are gone that the faceplate screws into, how or why I don't know ...I wish I knew the history on it because those should not have come off if it fell!


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> But I still need something to screw them into! The little posts are gone that the faceplate screws into, how or why I don't know ...I wish I knew the history on it because those should not have come off if it fell!


 
 I would maybe try glueing it in place? The faceplate's never really need to come off unless you are cleaning them. All the internals can be reached through the main body enclosure.  
  
 Make sure you are happy with how clean the faceplate is first and especially the glass of the tuner. If you use an all purpose glue rather than a hard metal one, you could easily remove the face plate again anyway if need be.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> But I still need something to screw them into! The little posts are gone that the faceplate screws into, how or why I don't know ...I wish I knew the history on it because those should not have come off if it fell!




Can you use one of those things the automakers used for interior panels? Forget what they are called but I'm sure you'll come up with a fix.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Can you use one of those things the automakers used for interior panels? Forget what they are called but I'm sure you'll come up with a fix.




I found some screws that are OK but right now only the knobs are keeping the faceplate on. 

Now someone mentioned to glue it, is that a good idea?


----------



## harrinj

Knobs are keeping it on. I figured out what is inscribed on the upper right hand corner, it's an Oregon drivers license. I real WISH they hadn't put it on the faceplate... 

Its also missing the little black circles around the headphone jacks but that does not bother me.


----------



## harrinj

This is what I need. Do any of you know what they are? 






[/IMG][/IMG]


----------



## MIKELAP

harrinj said:


> This is what I need. Do any of you know what they are?
> 
> [IMG][attach]965656[/attach][/quote]
> 
> Thats your faceplate screw wright the other part is a spacer the one the screws is in its not threaded wright it goes between the back of the faceplate and the amps frame the stripped thread is in the frame am i wright if so you could always drill a bit biggerand tap a new thread in the frame and use next size screw if that is the case let me know.


----------



## harrinj

mikelap said:


> Thats your faceplate screw wright the other part is a spacer the one the screws is in its not threaded wright it goes between the back of the faceplate and the amps frame the stripped thread is in the frame am i wright if so you could always drill a bit biggerand tap a new thread in the frame and use next size screw if that is the case let me know.


 
 Eugh the other two images didnt show up... I cannot screw the original screws into that because they don't go in correctly and they get stuck. I need four of those (however the bottom two I would not be able to get in with my current skill) 
  
 I was thinking of just getting two long screws for both top screws and a nut and just doing it that way and the knobs would hold the lower part on. I really wonder why in the world these would be gone and how! 

 I also need to replace the light to the STEREO indicator but if I take that all apart I will never be able to get the tuner twine back the way it was


----------



## MIKELAP

If those parts circled red are your parts like you say you could possibly take a screw and nut and attach it to the back of that frame is there room And if those are the parts the screws are in and if so they are threaded wright but the thread is stripped is there thread remaining inside those parts if yes you could try passing a tap inside the hole , thread might not be stripped all the way and you still could use your screws.


----------



## kstuart

Some wry fun:
  
 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/audiophiles-luring-youngsters-into-boring-conversations-2013110180809


----------



## kstuart

The Audio CD is officially dead:
  


> *Can I listen to audio CDs using the PS4 system?*
> No, the PS4 system _[latest hardware by Sony - the creator of audio CDs] _does not support audio CDs _[unlike its predecessor the PS3]_.


----------



## MattTCG

...


----------



## DefQon

That news is quite old now (as well as posted in the PS4 thread), the PS4 doesn't support MP3, audio cd's none of those except DLNA media, when they announced the PS4 was strictly going to be a gaming console they weren't joking around, the development team behind the PS4 may consider adding those functions in future firmware updates.
  
 Saying the audio cd format is dead because it isn't supported by the PS4 is outright silly, a lot of people didn't use the old PS3 for nothing more than simple gaming, blu-ray movies, don't forget that audiophiles that still spin discs do it on proper transports. 
  
 As with harrnji's Marantz faceplate problem, you can use a similar length screw with the correct thread spacing, use hollow plastic tubes that you can cut down to proper length and use as in-between spacers like the original screw did.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I found some screws that are OK but right now only the knobs are keeping the faceplate on.
> 
> Now someone mentioned to glue it, is that a good idea?


 

 I'd ask Doug to fix it properly.  He is very inexpensive on stuff like this and he may have the exact parts you need laying around.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> I'd ask Doug to fix it properly.  He is very inexpensive on stuff like this and he may have the exact parts you need laying around.




That's kinda what I decided on. I got some wooden dowels and cut them down the the correct size and will see if that works. 

Right now I am soaking the faceplate and the plastic inner face to get this damned gobs of wood glue off!!!! It's also helping getting the grime embedded into the face off too! 

But yes I am gonna have Mr. Doug put in LEDs because there's no way I'm up to doing that at my current skill! I wish Doug gave lessons... Lol he's so awesome. That pioneer rack he had in there was kinda cool. I don't know if it was someone else's but it was still cool. It had that pioneer spec amp like you have.


----------



## harrinj

defqon said:


> That news is quite old now (as well as posted in the PS4 thread), the PS4 doesn't support MP3, audio cd's none of those except DLNA media, when they announced the PS4 was strictly going to be a gaming console they weren't joking around, the development team behind the PS4 may consider adding those functions in future firmware updates.
> 
> Saying the audio cd format is dead because it isn't supported by the PS4 is outright silly, a lot of people didn't use the old PS3 for nothing more than simple gaming, blu-ray movies, don't forget that audiophiles that still spin discs do it on proper transports.
> 
> As with harrnji's Marantz faceplate problem, you can use a similar length screw with the correct thread spacing, use hollow plastic tubes that you can cut down to proper length and use as in-between spacers like the original screw did.




O_o I almost don't believe this.


----------



## Destroysall

So two int. amps have made their way to my local CL and seem tempting as is. The first is a Pioneer SA-6500 bundled with a Tuner and an optional set of Infinity 1001A speakers. The link for this bundle is here → http://tucson.craigslist.org/ele/4062436397.html 
  
 The other ad that I like and actually find more appealing is one that offers a Kenwood KA-3500. This one appeals to me more in terms of both aesthetics and power. I do need something with more power than what I have now, so it feels like it could be a nice upgrade. Plus distance wise, it is closer to me. So here is the link to that → http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/ele/4149213951.html
  
 What do you guys recommend more?


----------



## CRIOLLAZO

Mine is a Pioneer SA 8800 integrated amplifier, for digital discs I use Sony BDP-s580 (I will upgrade to OPPO player soon) and for LPs (vinyls for the youngers here) a Marantz TT-15s1 turntable with a MM Clearaudio Cartridge. For my Beyerdynamic 880 250Ohm is absolutely fantastic!, and for my AKG Q701 if you use more knob at the bass control you do not have any regrets with lacking of "real bass" at least you love dubsteb, house or electronic (21th century Disco) music (I use in these situations my Denon DN-P1000 DJ headphones). For few days I have had a Lehmann Audio Black Cube and the only great difference I found was with the Q701s, the soundstage and the treble are more close to floorstanding speakers, I mean... More Real. I can't understand yet how can be so good with the 880s yet. I tuned up this SA 8800 2 year ago to be efficient 100% and I think every good vintage one must have this process first.


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> jasonb said:
> 
> 
> > I think vintage gear lit up at night is even sexier than tubes.
> ...


 
  





 I say on an arbitrary Friday, we all contribute _Night shots_ of our vintage lovelies...


----------



## DefQon

harrinj said:


> O_o I almost don't believe this.


 
 Which part? Well I guess I need to edit my post as well as the PS4 doesn't support DLNA either.
  
 http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2304254/sony-ps4-will-not-support-mp3-dnla-or-audio-cd


----------



## brunk

defqon said:


> Which part? Well I guess I need to edit my post as well as the PS4 doesn't support DLNA either.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2304254/sony-ps4-will-not-support-mp3-dnla-or-audio-cd


 
 Sounds like they wouldn't let you play blu-ray movies either if they could...sheesh


----------



## Xovaan

meewoo said:


> Did you only deoxit phone jack? You have to clean the volume, balance, tremble, bass control pots. Especially volume pot, Nak used low quality part here and it needs consistent clean. My SR-2a requires me to do this consistently. Hope this help.


 
  
 I'm bypassing the preamp for my Icon HDP's preamp section, so it bypasses all the controls on the Nak. Does the corrosion in these units still affect sound if I'm not using the Nak's controls? Either way, thanks man, I'll do this ASAP. Any recommendations on the best way to go about this? I only have the small tubes of deoxit and deoxit gold. Is this sufficient or do I need propulsion to get to hard to reach areas?


----------



## Meewoo

xovaan said:


> I'm bypassing the preamp for my Icon HDP's preamp section, so it bypasses all the controls on the Nak. Does the corrosion in these units still affect sound if I'm not using the Nak's controls? Either way, thanks man, I'll do this ASAP. Any recommendations on the best way to go about this? I only have the small tubes of deoxit and deoxit gold. Is this sufficient or do I need propulsion to get to hard to reach areas?


 
 If you use only power amp part, don't bother those pre-amp controllers. Focus on the RCA jumper pots (main in RCA) on back and phone jack. If it doesn't work, then try find cold soldering. Hope you find solution!


----------



## parbaked

Swapped around the office system. The Pioneer SA-7100 is taking a break...
 Brought my "vintage" (1990) tube gear out of storage to let them run for a bit.

 David Manley VTL Stereo 50 tube amp - Perfect match for the rather hungry Spendor 3/5 speakers

 and Maximal pre-amp. 

 Winter is coming. Time to get warm...


----------



## brunk

^ How do you like those speakers? I'm thinking of building a replica of those. Do they fill the room nicely?


----------



## parbaked

With the right amp these do very well for their size. They do need juice to play loud in any decent size room.
 Are you building Bagby Continuums? Doug Stirling also makes good kits.


----------



## harrinj

Why was my picture removed?


----------



## ssrock64

I found a set of very interesting speakers on the local CL, but I'm afraid that my SX780 is going to overpower them. They're svelte custom-cabinet bookshelf units, but the drivers are relatively modern in-ceiling Klipsch drivers (with a tweeter set inside the woofer). My bedroom setup isn't really for critical listening when it comes to speakers and the rubber pieces of my Missions have started to deteriorate, so I thought they'd be interesting and fun little speakers to have around.
  
 Below are some quotes from the Klipsch site, since I'm no sound science guru. Do you think a vintage receiver is complete overkill with these?
  


> 92dB @ 1watt/1meter
> 
> 50 w max continuous (200 w peak)
> 
> 8 ohms compatible


----------



## calipilot227

Unless you're going to listen at above 106.5 db continuously, you should be fine.
  
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


----------



## PhoenixG

At 45 wpc RMS on the SX-780, there's no risk of over driving to failure on a 50 watt continuous speaker. If anything, you can get into an under-power regime where clipping will shoot high power squares through and do damage at top volumes. It looks like a good power match to me and is worth trying.
  
  
 quick rant on power ratings - 
 One of the constant frustrating issues I see with power ratings is that modern amps (especially the cheaper ones) frequently lie through their teeth and hide behind fantasy numbers. Some amps will report 1000W, printed in size 200 font right on it, which sounds awesome until you see that it's the theoretical combined channel peak power to 1 ohm. If you decode their creative math, those amps tend to come in at least an order of magnitude lower. In that example, it is probably really about 60w RMS. Not so impressive now, eh?? Using that math, I could blow smoke saying my sx-1980 does 30kw, even though peaking four channels at 1 ohm would definitely blow it up.
 /rant


----------



## parbaked

calipilot227 said:


> Unless you're going to listen at above 106.5 db continuously, you should be fine.
> 
> http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html


 
 Yeah, the less hard your amp is working the less likely you will do any damage.
 Trouble comes when your amp is not powerful enough. or well matched, for what you're asking your speakers to do.
 Those Klipsch should get plenty loud before you have to worry about stressing anything...


----------



## Trav

parbaked said:


> Swapped around the office system. The Pioneer SA-7100 is taking a break...
> Brought my "vintage" (1990) tube gear out of storage to let them run for a bit.
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a Project Debut turntable?


----------



## parbaked

trav said:


> Is that a Project Debut turntable?


 
 Older, modified Rega P2


----------



## brunk

parbaked said:


> Yeah, the less hard your amp is working the less likely you will do any damage.
> Trouble comes when your amp is not powerful enough. or well matched, for what you're asking your speakers to do.
> Those Klipsch should get plenty loud before you have to worry about stressing anything...


 
 Yep, and especially since they are rated in the 90db efficiency category. The receiver might actually have too much gain and result in little play on the volume knob, but thankfully it is unlikely.


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> Why was my picture removed?


 
 Was it the Marantz stack? If so, you posted it in another thread... Not this one.


----------



## harrinj

There's a Marantz 2238 (not the B) near me that I wish I could get but I just got that 4270. The 2238 is one I've been looking for I love the design of it. 

I posted a pic of my 4240, 4270 & 2220B last night but for some reason it's vanished from this thread. Are we for some odd reason not to post more than two receivers at once or something? LOL


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Was it the Marantz stack? If so, you posted it in another thread... Not this one.




O_o that can't be possible I posted it in this one because I read the previous page it was posted on afterwards and it was there! I posted it from my iPad so maybe something screwed up. It's been horrible since that iOS 7 update so laggy.


----------



## ssrock64

Thanks, guys! I'll probably pick them up later week if they sound decent when I audition them, and I'll be sure to post pictures.


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> O_o that can't be possible I posted it in this one because I read the previous page it was posted on afterwards and it was there! I posted it from my iPad so maybe something screwed up. It's been horrible since that iOS 7 update so laggy.


 
 here you go bud, you'd put it in the vintage speakers thread.


----------



## Silent One

A stack looking better than a stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




of pancakes!


----------



## analogsurviver

jasonb said:


> I think vintage gear lit up at night is even sexier than tubes.


 
 A-a. 
  
 THE sexiest association with audio gear?
  
 Nothing like powering down giant Krklec OTL mono blocks : http://www.sound-carrier.com/ The crackling of the _numerous _PL519 tubes cooling down is a very satisfying blessed relief after a long listening session - just like after a good ...


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> here you go bud, you'd put it in the vintage speakers thread.


 
 yeah I figured out how it happened. I've just unsubscribed from that thread because I almost posted on that one by mistake before.


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> here you go bud, you'd put it in the vintage speakers thread.




Rack/stack Em.........how to choose which to listen to?


----------



## brunk

oregonian said:


> Rack/stack Em.........how to choose which to listen to?


 
 Or better yet...keep asking yourself "what's this button do?"


----------



## sloomingbla

Hey guys, im a total newby and im looking for a vintage integrated amp for <150$.

I was wondering if you guys could give me some tips on which ones are good for that price range?

(Atleast, what amps are good and be commonly found at that price range )

I would be using it with the signature dj, which has an impedance of 32 ohms... So keep that in mind 

Thanks guys! And once again, im a newbie so if this isnt the way to ask the question, or if i have some things wrong with the post, please tell me.


----------



## Oregonian

sloomingbla said:


> Hey guys, im a total newby and im looking for a vintage integrated amp for <150$.
> 
> I was wondering if you guys could give me some tips on which ones are good for that price range?
> 
> ...


 

 First question - where are you located - state/city?  What main craigslist area are you near?  I'll check and give you a couple of ideas.
  
 Glad to see you over here!


----------



## sloomingbla

Im in herriman, utah, and the main craigslist area near me is salt lake city.

Glad to be here, and thanks!!


----------



## Oregonian

sloomingbla said:


> Im in herriman, utah, and the main craigslist area near me is salt lake city.
> 
> Glad to be here, and thanks!!




Just pulled it up, clicked electronics, typed vintage in the search bar, and got 67 hits. Already found a Kenwood KA-5700 integrated amp (I have TWO of them) in Lehi for $169.

And that my friend is a start and could be your answer. That is a great unit. 40 WPC, has meters and a great powerful headphone out. 

And a Pioneer SX850 receiver in Sugarhouse for $150 with cassette deck.

Lots of options bud.


----------



## sloomingbla

Sounds good to me!

Just tryin to make sure i end up getting a good one... And i guess i should slow down too. I wont have any money for a week 

Thanks!!


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Rack/stack Em.........how to choose which to listen to?


 
 I'm listening to the 2220B with the HE-500's the best of one I have with these headphones. 

 However my DAC is acting up. never ever ever never buying Nuforce again! I'm debating on selling this UDH-100 and saving up for a Schiit Gungnir.


----------



## MattTCG

What the heck is this? Check out the last pic in the link...
  
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/ele/4124968623.html


----------



## Skylab

That my friend is a tube shortwave radio receiver. Very cool, but not the kind of music-listening audio gear we speak of here.


----------



## Argybargy

Anyone try the Audeze LCD-X or XC with some vintage iron?
 With 22ohm impedance and 95-96db efficiency, I wonder if there would be some background hiss/noise issues.
 Given these efficiencies, it seems like the Audeze recommendation of 1-4 watts for optimal power requirement might be a little high(?)


----------



## MattTCG

The lcd-2 sounds darn good on all the Pioneers I've owned. No background hiss. I would imagine that the new series would be the same.


----------



## Argybargy

Yes, the LCD2 was very good and quiet with all of my vintage receivers, but I found the sound sig a little dark. I can't decide whether to keep the HE-4 or try the X.


----------



## Silent One

argybargy said:


> *Anyone try the Audeze LCD-X or XC with some vintage iron?*
> With 22ohm impedance and 95-96db efficiency, I wonder if there would be some background hiss/noise issues.
> Given these efficiencies, it seems like the Audeze recommendation of 1-4 watts for optimal power requirement might be a little high(?)


 
  
 If someone would like to get my view, send 'em! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Private Messaging is easy as 1-2-3...


----------



## PhoenixG

I am officially kicking myself. There have been two SX series receivers up on the local CL in the last week and I missed both of them. One was a SX-1280 for basically nothing, and the other was a SX-1000TW (AKA the very first SS receiver they ever put out) for also very cheap. To be fair, the SX-1280 was gone after like 10 minutes; a level of craigslisting that is incompatible with almost any sort of job.
 Just have to hang out with the old friends for a while then -


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry to hear your near misses on CL. I feel that technology is taking over there somewhat. The 1280 is an outstanding receiver for both speakers and hp's. Hate to hear that you missed it.


----------



## brunk

Lol @ "Fear the Goat" poster. It reminds me of a terrible and awful _thing_ that spread across the net some time ago. I'm not going to specify it...


----------



## PhoenixG

Haha, it's no biggie. I miss things all the time, but man do I wish I hadn't. I think if I got the 1280, I'd finally put the 1980 out for a full restore at circle stereo.


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> Haha, it's no biggie. I miss things all the time, but man do I wish I hadn't. I think if I got the 1280, I'd finally put the 1980 out for a full restore at circle stereo.


 
  
  





 I can testify, a bit of good luck can certainly change your day/night! For about 18 months of closely watching CL, I kept missing things... a lot! And then on a Spring night, an almost uneventful Friday night, after dinner I brought up CL to look a bit. Precisely 2200 hours. 
  
 The seller of my G-22000 just posted his AD well under the 5 minutes I began to look at vintage stereo receiver listings... Bang! I never knew
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could type so fast!!! I'm almost certain the email was littered 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with errors. I was the first to contact him and he responded right away - he was actually calling it a night after listing. And he would not return to the store until Monday morning.
  
 What's more, he knew the value and rarity of the unit but gave me his word that, while he couldn't put it on_ lay-a-way_, he'd give me first shot! As long as I could make it to town between the morning's open and 1300 hrs. This is because I had to travel out of town but his being closed on the weekend made this easy!
  
 I'm still smiling at the luck I had on a single Friday night.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> Haha, it's no biggie. I miss things all the time, but man do I wish I hadn't. I think if I got the 1280, I'd finally put the 1980 out for a full restore at circle stereo.


 

 Owning both a 1980 and a 1280.....................audio bliss.  Almost like these guys who have multiple Spec systems.............check these out.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ wow...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 Question, I have an offer to trade my sx890 for an sx950 with $50 cash on my part. Both receivers in very good condition.  
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Oregonian

There was talk about posting some nighttime shots of our SS vintage...........so I turned on the whole system and turned the lights off. Photos don't do it justice.


----------



## DemonFox

oregonian said:


> phoenixg said:
> 
> 
> > Haha, it's no biggie. I miss things all the time, but man do I wish I hadn't. I think if I got the 1280, I'd finally put the 1980 out for a full restore at circle stereo.
> ...


 
  
  
 That's nuts!! 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## DemonFox

I have a fully functional SX-3700 for $150 locally. Looks great and sellers says its in great shape. What do you guys think? 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## joehalo

matttcg said:


> ^^ wow...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think that is a good trade. I've had more than one person tell me they preferred the sound of the 1050 and 950 to that of the 1250, 1280 and 1980. I love my 950!


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> There was talk about posting some nighttime shots of our SS vintage...........so I turned on the whole system and turned the lights off. Photos don't do it justice.


 
  
 I see potential in that shot! Just need to make a few adjustments with the use of your lens. Does your camera have the ability to extend Shutter opening? Got a stand; timer? Great shots await!


----------



## harrinj

phoenixg said:


> I am officially kicking myself. There have been two SX series receivers up on the local CL in the last week and I missed both of them. One was a SX-1280 for basically nothing, and the other was a SX-1000TW (AKA the very first SS receiver they ever put out) for also very cheap. To be fair, the SX-1280 was gone after like 10 minutes; a level of craigslisting that is incompatible with almost any sort of job.
> Just have to hang out with the old friends for a while then -


 
 There is a conspiracy going on. I mentioned a Marantz 2238 on here and it vanished shortly after. I wont ever say anything regarding craigslist again on here. LOL!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## palmfish

harrinj said:


> There is a conspiracy going on. I mentioned a Marantz 2238 on here and it vanished shortly after. I wont ever say anything regarding craigslist again on here. LOL!


 
  
 A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more people...
  
 I suspect what you witnessed was more akin to cutting in line. No less offensive, but the penalty is much less severe...lol.


----------



## 5aces




----------



## kenshinhimura

harrinj said:


> There is a conspiracy going on. I mentioned a Marantz 2238 on here and it vanished shortly after. I wont ever say anything regarding craigslist again on here. LOL!


 

 just post about the listing after you get it. =p


----------



## kstuart

I would expect that for every person who posts in a head-fi thread, there are at least 10, maybe 100, and possibly 1,000 who read but never post ("lurkers").  Actually, Jude would know what the actual number is...


----------



## kstuart

So, "some guy" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 used to think that 3 channels was the wave of the future:
  





 
 and a little more of his vintage gear (for 78 RPM, it looks like):





 
 So, more info - the first picture was taken in 1964 for Life Magazine, which makes sense, because the dog's name is "Ringo", and that looks like a McIntosh C22 which was first made in 1962.  Large size image at:
  
 http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/289e2a9223b6149a_large


----------



## ssrock64

Unfortunately, I'm starting to get an issue with the SX780 again. For the past two weeks or so, my right channel has been becoming grainier, and now it's distorting to a distracting point. This is through headphones as well as through speakers. My usual service guy told me on the phone that it's most likely dirt in a knob, but he was juggling calls at the time so I'm not sure whether he heard the part about it getting progressively worse over time. Besides, my service at M&S Music was supposed to include cleaning of all the pots.
  
 What do you guys think it is?
  
 To cheer up the situation, here's a photo of the station with the new speakers I was discussing a few days ago. The wood work is really beautiful:


----------



## MattTCG

Those speakers are gorgeous!! What are they?


----------



## Silent One

kenshinhimura said:


> just post about the listing after you get it. =p


 
 +1
  
 'Cause when the general public do searches on gear, all of the related publicly indexed comments come back. A tube dealer tried to leverage an arm and a leg from me over numerous head-fi posts she had just learned about. And I was only willing to part with an arm...


----------



## ssrock64

matttcg said:


> Those speakers are gorgeous!! What are they?


 
 I have a pair of Mission 771s that usually serve duties in my bedroom/office setup, but they've been deteriorating with age and it's time to set them aside for awhile and wait for some parts to show up on eBay to get them back to new. In the interim, I found these hand-made beauties on the local CL for only $100 bucks.
  
 A local realtor built them out of mahogany as his first custom speaker project, and was looking to get rid of them since he's done better sonically since making them. The drivers are from Klipsch KHC6 ceiling speakers, and the design of the cabinet appears to be completely original. They sound pretty good for what they are, and will be used for casual blasting since I do all my critical listening with headphones. They're not nearly as focused or detailed as my Missions because of the obvious drawbacks of using an in-ceiling driver for bookshelf duties, but I actually find that liberating. Since these are merely good-sounding instead of great-sounding, I feel no need to worry about positioning or to close my eyes and try to listen in attentively. They're just perfect to rock out to.
  
 And yes, I have to hand it to the guy for making such a beautiful high-quality cabinet. Here's a grainy bonus picture of the enclosure:
  

  
 You can see that the cabinet swoops cleanly inward as it goes back, so the rear is gracefully narrow while the front is all business.


----------



## parbaked

You can probably swap the drivers for something designed for a cabinet.
 Should be full range - no crossover to worry about - and most of these have screw type connectors so you don't even need to solder.


----------



## Skylab

ssrock64 said:


> Unfortunately, I'm starting to get an issue with the SX780 again. For the past two weeks or so, my right channel has been becoming grainier, and now it's distorting to a distracting point. This is through headphones as well as through speakers. My usual service guy told me on the phone that it's most likely dirt in a knob, but he was juggling calls at the time so I'm not sure whether he heard the part about it getting progressively worse over time. Besides, my service at M&S Music was supposed to include cleaning of all the pots.
> 
> What do you guys think it is?




You should ALWAYS first suspect dirty controls. Have yours been deoxit treated already?


----------



## harrinj

kenshinhimura said:


> just post about the listing after you get it. =p


 
 Indeed!  I'm selling my Schiit Valhalla on CL to get a 2275 with wood case or another 4270 that's not wrecked like mine inside and also has the wood case (also does not have a freaking drivers license inscribed into the face. I get it why people did that back then but why in the world couldn't they have done that on the rear of the face????), then I'd sell the 4270 I have. I might sell my UDH-100 too and get a Schiit Gungnir at some point.


----------



## harrinj

ssrock64 said:


> Unfortunately, I'm starting to get an issue with the SX780 again. For the past two weeks or so, my right channel has been becoming grainier, and now it's distorting to a distracting point. This is through headphones as well as through speakers. My usual service guy told me on the phone that it's most likely dirt in a knob, but he was juggling calls at the time so I'm not sure whether he heard the part about it getting progressively worse over time. Besides, my service at M&S Music was supposed to include cleaning of all the pots.
> 
> What do you guys think it is?
> 
> To cheer up the situation, here's a photo of the station with the new speakers I was discussing a few days ago. The wood work is really beautiful:


 
 You should go to Ace Hardware and get a big can of CRC Electronic cleaner. it's bigger and IMO works better than deoxit and lasts longer. Spray some into all the pots and it might solve the problem.


----------



## ssrock64

skylab said:


> You should ALWAYS first suspect dirty controls. Have yours been deoxit treated already?


 

 Everything was supposedly handled by M&S music, but it wouldn't hurt to go through it all again to be sure. However, something new has come up. After some super-ultra-keen observation took place, I realized that my right-channel vu meter will sometimes spike up extremely as I increase the volume of the Pioneer, and then stay at that extreme level until I turn it off. The actual volume is unaffected, but the distortion gets worse at this point. Is that something that a simple knob could cause, or is it an internal malady?


----------



## Skylab

Hmmmm...that does sound odd. I guess it should probably have a tech look it over, assuming you want to keep it.


----------



## MIKELAP

kstuart said:


> So, "some guy"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you think Frank just passed Halloween and has a bowl of candy cigarettes!


----------



## ssrock64

skylab said:


> Hmmmm...that does sound odd. I guess it should probably have a tech look it over, assuming you want to keep it.



That's what was afraid of, though I'm so used to bringing things into the shop by now that it won't be a big deal. It's just a bit of a pain because the nearest place to repair it is at least twenty-five minutes by car.

I also have to cross my fingers and hope it doesn't get expensive.


----------



## LugBug1

ssrock64 said:


> Unfortunately, I'm starting to get an issue with the SX780 again. For the past two weeks or so, my right channel has been becoming grainier, and now it's distorting to a distracting point. This is through headphones as well as through speakers. My usual service guy told me on the phone that it's most likely dirt in a knob, but he was juggling calls at the time so I'm not sure whether he heard the part about it getting progressively worse over time. Besides, my service at M&S Music was supposed to include cleaning of all the pots.
> 
> What do you guys think it is?
> 
> To cheer up the situation, here's a photo of the station with the new speakers I was discussing a few days ago. The wood work is really beautiful:


 
 The exact same thing happened with my sx550, but it's fine now. I would clean all the pots and switches thoroughly, don't miss any out because the signal passes through all of them before it reaches the output. I'm sure it would affect both channels if it was a cap or transistor problem.


----------



## Skylab

As suggested by SO, here is my version of Friday Night lights


----------



## MattTCG

Just beautiful!! How much weight do you have on the stand in that last pic?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks. And the answer is A LOT! But the stand is rated at 300 pounds for the top and bottom shelf each. So it's fine. It's a beast of a stand.


----------



## MattTCG

Does the sx1980 really weigh 80+ pounds? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My wife only weighs 95. No way she'd help me carry that one in from the garage...no way.


----------



## Argybargy

Wow, awesome on so many levels.

Rob, what do you think would be a good price to shoot for, for a mint and original SX 1250 in the Chicagoland Craigslist market?


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> Does the sx1980 really weigh 80+ pounds? :eek:  My wife only weighs 95. No way she'd help me carry that one in from the garage...no way.




Yes, the SX-1980 weighs 80 pounds (78 to be exact). I would wager the transformer alone weighs 25 pounds. It's HUGE. Much bigger than the one in my 600 wpc Sunfire amp. It's pretty much impossible to lift by myself. My son has to help me on the rare occasion one needs relocating.



argybargy said:


> Wow, awesome on so many levels.
> 
> Rob, what do you think would be a good price to shoot for, for a mint and original SX 1250 in the Chicagoland Craigslist market?




Well, the SX-1250 has seen the biggest price run up of any of the big Pioneers the last few years. It used to sell for less than a 1280, but these days they are much closer. I bought a near mint 1250 a few years ago on the Chicago CL for $500. That's probably not happening these days. If it's really mint, I would say you'd be doing well under $700.


----------



## sloomingbla

Found a kenwood ka 52b at a garae sale for 30$... Should i bother?


----------



## LugBug1

Lovin the night light pics Rob, must be like being in Vegas in your man cave!


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Does the sx1980 really weigh 80+ pounds?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Yes, the SX-1980 weighs 80 pounds (78 to be exact). I would wager the transformer alone weighs 25 pounds. It's HUGE. Much bigger than the one in my 600 wpc Sunfire amp. It's pretty much impossible to lift by myself. My son has to help me on the rare occasion one needs relocating.


 
  
 I simply detach amp/preamp (93 lbs) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and load the luggage cart.
  
  
 Great Friday Night Lights! At-a-glance, it could be mistaken for the Air Traffic Control room @ O'Hare.


----------



## Skylab

lugbug1 said:


> Lovin the night light pics Rob, must be like being in Vegas in your man cave!






silent one said:


> Great Friday Night Lights! At-a-glance, it could be mistaken for the Air Traffic Control room @ O'Hare.




Yup, those are good analogies  I love it!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Sky you can post pics of that rig every day and I would never get tired of seeing it.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> Sky you can post pics of that rig every day and I would never get tired of seeing it.




Thanks Moody! I see it in person every day and I never get tired of seeing it either


----------



## Silent One

I'm waiting on candles for my next night shot... for the floor standing holders right behind the audio rack; Sansui.


----------



## harrinj

skylab said:


> As suggested by SO, here is my version of Friday Night lights


 
 W-O-W-! That Pioneer in the upper right hand corner is neat looking. 

 I wanna find a Kenwood KA-9100 for some VU meters!  This is such an awesome hobby...


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> Yes, the SX-1980 weighs 80 pounds (78 to be exact). I would wager the transformer alone weighs 25 pounds. It's HUGE. Much bigger than the one in my 600 wpc Sunfire amp. It's pretty much impossible to lift by myself. My son has to help me on the rare occasion one needs relocating.




I wasn't the smartest when I got mine. I lifted it out of the trunk and carried it into the house solo. When it went on the rack, I got a helper.



Grainy iPhone picture...


----------



## Silent One

It looks great from Cali!


----------



## Skylab

harrinj said:


> W-O-W-! That Pioneer in the upper right hand corner is neat looking.
> 
> 
> I wanna find a Kenwood KA-9100 for some VU meters!  This is such an awesome hobby...




Thanks! Indeed, it is an awesome hobby 



wotts said:


> I wasn't the smartest when I got mine. I lifted it out of the trunk and carried it into the house solo. When it went on the rack, I got a helper.
> 
> Grainy iPhone picture...




Looking good, Tim!


----------



## Argybargy

Can any of you turntable gurus recommend a vintage turntable that is a sonic and aesthetic match with the SX-1250? Something with some silver and wood. I'm looking for a budget unit under $500.


----------



## parbaked

argybargy said:


> Can any of you turntable gurus recommend a vintage turntable that is a sonic and aesthetic match with the SX-1250? Something with some silver and wood. I'm looking for a budget unit under $500.


 
 Thorens TD-166 is a nice aesthetic choice.
 Note the strip of steel on front - reminds me of Danish cabinetmaking


----------



## kstuart

argybargy said:


> Can any of you turntable gurus recommend a vintage turntable that is a sonic and aesthetic match with the SX-1250? Something with some silver and wood. I'm looking for a budget unit under $500.


 
 One of the most highly regarded turntables of the era of the SX-1250 was the Pioneer PL-12D.  Of course, it was designed to look right with other Pioneer gear, but I would get one if I was getting any pre-1980s turntable.


----------



## Skylab

The Pioneer PL-71 would be killer, but those are hard to get.

The Pioneer PL-530, 550, and 570 are also very nice tables but very often the vinyl wood veneer is shot. You can however frequently buy these on eBay where someone has both serviced them and put a real wood veneer on them. I have both a 530 and a 570 done that way which are great with my SX-1980's.


----------



## Argybargy

Thanks for the recommendations!  I'll keep an eye on CL and the bay.


----------



## calipilot227

Here's one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pioneer-Model-pl-550-turntable-/171169698249?pt=US_Record_Players_Home_Turntables&hash=item27da8251c9
  
 Funny, the seller even mentions the SX-1250 in the ad


----------



## Argybargy

Yeah, I saw that one. I think I'll wait for one with a real wood veneer, as Skylab mentioned.


----------



## palmfish

My 707 is vinyl veneer and it looks outstanding. While genuine wood is beautiful, I wouldnt cross vinyl off your list. As with any vintage pirchase, condition is everything.


----------



## parbaked

The aesthetic issue for me is that the Pioneer (or Denon) vinyl plinths don't really 'match' the walnut cabinet of my SA-7100. 
  
 The TT plinths are made-up out to look like a solid piece of wood, 

 whereas the Pioneer amp/receivers' cabinet is a wood box.

 For an aesthetic match I'd look for a TT with a walnut "box" plinth e.g. certain AR, Thorens, Dual etc
 This Thorens 125 really matches in how the plinth is constructed v. the Pioneer cabinet
  

  or the simple box from early AR

 or if on budget: Dual:

  
 If one wants to stay in Japan, the Luxmans sure look pretty (but generally rosewood, not walnut).


----------



## Argybargy

Nice!  That Thoren 125 is a looker.
 I did some research and it doesn't seem too difficult to DIY a walnut veneer onto these vintage turntables.
 I will probably give this a try.


----------



## kstuart

In terms of sound quality per dollar, the Pioneer PL-12D crushed any competition at that time.  The belt drive turntable design was simple and effective and the arm design and bearings were very carefully designed.  Many people used them with cheap $10 cartridges and so were not aware of what it could sound like with something like a V15TypeIV.
  
 If you are going to spend $500+, then you should be looking at 1980s-90s Rega turntables (but of course it won't match anything from the 70s except for Sansuis).


----------



## jasonb

Damn... I love my SX seven fiddy! This thing is such a beast!


----------



## Silent One

My _Seven_ is hittin' pretty hard, too! (SX-D7000)


----------



## Trav

Just scored a near mint Sony STR 6065 at a really decent price. Photos soon.


----------



## Silent One

Hurry... before my pre-midnight ice cream melts!


----------



## magiccabbage

What do ye guys think of these? any good?
  
http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/vintage-pioneer-system/2521975


----------



## LugBug1

trav said:


> Just scored a near mint Sony STR 6065 at a really decent price. Photos soon.


 
 Hope you have better luck with this one bud  
  
 Keep us informed


----------



## PhoenixG

trav said:


> Just scored a near mint Sony STR 6065 at a really decent price. Photos soon.


 
 That is by far my favorite unit under 50W and under $500! Also, it's one of the few built to produce clean max power when the knob is at max without clipping. Very cool, great find!


----------



## Trav

Lug I have to get the 6055 to the shop eventually.


----------



## palmfish

magiccabbage said:


> What do ye guys think of these? any good?
> 
> http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/vintage-pioneer-system/2521975


 
  
 Thats a lot of money for entry level stuff.


----------



## parbaked

I am afraid I have to agree that those components are priced high compared to what we can find in the US.
 The later Pioneer are not as 'special' as the early/mid 70s units...
 Think wood cabinets and etched metal faceplates.
 The later amps have the flashy blue meters and nice specs, but the guts don't compare.
  
 For 600 euros one can get some mighty nice new kit!


----------



## magiccabbage

thanks guys. I nothing about this stuff.


----------



## Silent One

You've come to the right place...


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> What do ye guys think of these? any good?
> 
> http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/vintage-pioneer-system/2521975


 
 Yeah as above, I wouldn't pay near to what they are asking for all that mate. I own the same amp and its one of my faves sound wise, but I paid £60 for it in good condition. Keep looking


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> I am afraid I have to agree that those components are priced high compared to what we can find in the US.
> The later Pioneer are not as 'special' as the early/mid 70s units...
> Think wood cabinets and etched metal faceplates.
> The later amps have the flashy blue meters and nice specs, but the guts don't compare.
> ...




These are not "later" Pioneers. The flouroscan meters were added to the SA series around 1978. The progression in the US was SA-5500, SA-5500ii, SA-5800. The amp pictured in the ad is an SA-5800.


----------



## magiccabbage

palmfish said:


> These are not "later" Pioneers. The flouroscan meters were added to the SA series around 1978. The progression in the US was SA-5500, SA-5500ii, SA-5800. The amp pictured in the ad is an SA-5800.


 
 which means its not that bad or avoid? it did say 508 in the add not 5800


----------



## parbaked

palmfish said:


> These are not "later" Pioneers. The flouroscan meters were added to the SA series around 1978. The progression in the US was SA-5500, SA-5500ii, SA-5800. The amp pictured in the ad is an SA-5800.


 
 For me Pioneer's 'sea-change' came earlier in the mid 70's with the end of the SA-7100/8100/9100.
 This is just my opinion based on purely subjective criteria. I feel those were the last amps designed with a Japanese, as opposed to export, aesthetic.
 As such they emphasize build quality and over specified components (caps transformer etc) in relatively simple circuits.
 They also featured wood cabinets, etched faceplates and really high quality feeling switches.
 Sound quality was more important than power, specifications or features.
 The SA-X800 have more complicated circuits designed to increase power and improve specifications.
 As such they have more features and are much better on paper.
 Those are also great amps, but to me there is something special about the earlier Pioneers.

  
 It's a little like the difference between the SX-1250 and SX-1980 or the between the Series 20 and the Spec line


----------



## palmfish

It was Pioneers entry level integrated amp in 1978. A really good little amp, but obviously not as good as the 9800. It would be similar to comparing an SX-780 to an SX-1280.


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> For me Pioneer's 'sea-change' came earlier in the mid 70's with the end of the SA-7100/8100/9100.
> This is just my opinion based on purely subjective criteria. I feel those were the last amps designed with a Japanese, as opposed to export, aesthetic.
> As such they emphasize build quality and over specified components (caps transformer etc) in relatively simple circuits.
> They also featured wood cabinets, etched faceplates and really high quality feeling switches.
> ...




Yes, I pretty much agree with you. The only difference for me is that I see the x800 series as the end of the evolutionary line.


----------



## parbaked

palmfish said:


> It was Pioneers entry level integrated amp in 1978. A really good little amp, but obviously not as good as the 9800. It would be similar to comparing an SX-780 to an SX-1280.


 
 The SA-7100 pictured is only 20 WPC!
 It was also the entry level but has the same fine phono section as the SA-9800.
 The market was not as competitive then so they could afford to make fewer models and spec them very well.
 The guts are very impressive considering she's a 20 watter...


----------



## parbaked

palmfish said:


> Yes, I pretty much agree with you. The only difference for me is that I see the x800 series as the end of the evolutionary line.


 
 I'm probably that much older than you! Yes, I can see your point, the SA-9800 is especially nice too!
 Also the matching tuners are MUCH better than the earlier (TX-X100) tuners.





 My other favorite Pioneer is the SA-9900 but it is too much of a beast!
 It would be fun to lug to parties though!
 I do like Pioneer over all the other big Japanese choices....


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> I'm probably that much older than you! Yes, I can see your point, the SA-9800 is especially nice too!
> Also the matching tuners are MUCH better than the earlier (TX-X100) tuners.
> 
> My other favorite Pioneer is the SA-9900 but it is too much of a beast!
> ...




Regarding age - I purchased my SA-5800 new and am the original owner. 

I have some pictures of the inside of mine and from memory it looks odentical to the 7100 above. When I get home this afternoon I'll post them up for comparison.

I love silver-faced Pioneer's too. Theres just something about them...


----------



## magiccabbage

palmfish said:


> Regarding age - I purchased my SA-5800 new and am the original owner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ill wait up for that.


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> which means its not that bad or avoid? it did say 508 in the add not 5800


 
 Yeah its defo an SA508. I've owned one for a while now and I keep going back to it. It's very well balanced and has a certain something... It's brightly lit but also has warmth and depth at the same time.. Very vivid sound. Anyways, great amps and they pop up on ebay quite regularly. Don't pay more than 70 euros though, unless timewarp condition.  
  
 My recommendation of the week is the NAD 3020 for HD800 users. They are warm sounding but very engaging. Amazing bass. I would try and get a later model like (i) just so the insides are still good. 
  
 I see they've just released it again! In a modern ipod friendly guise haha.


----------



## palmfish

Just to clarify, the 5800 is the North American version of the 508. Same amp, only the 5800 has wood panels.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> Just to clarify, the 5800 is the North American version of the 508. Same amp, only the 5800 has wood panels.


 
 Thats correct bud  Only the 5800 looks nicer..


----------



## ssrock64

For some reason my right-channel distortion issues on the SX750 completely stopped after a couple days of sitting and a quick inspection with the case off. It's great to hear it in working order again, but I'm starting to form a deep-seated distrust of the thing.


----------



## brunk

ssrock64 said:


> For some reason my right-channel distortion issues on the SX750 completely stopped after a couple days of sitting and a quick inspection with the case off. It's great to hear it in working order again, but I'm starting to form a deep-seated distrust of the thing.


 
 Sounds like a loose wire/solder joint somewhere.


----------



## parbaked

This is up on fleas-bay.
 Local seller who also sells lots of high end gear on A-gon.
 He just acquired this Barzilay console system along with a pair of JBL S99 Athena Lancer speakers.
 Mcintosh electronics with a Thorens 125/Rabco TT:
 I'm not a huge Mc-fan but it would be fun to have this in the living room!


----------



## brunk

^ Holy moly that's nice! No WAF though


----------



## calipilot227

That's insane! I don't think I've ever seen a console with McIntosh components before.


----------



## parbaked

brunk said:


> ^ Holy moly that's nice! No WAF though


 
 OK, maybe in the basement instead of the living room...
 Then I'd put a mirror on the inside of the top so I could see the meters from my listening chair!


----------



## ssrock64

brunk said:


> Sounds like a loose wire/solder joint somewhere.


 
 Yeah, that's what my thought was. I couldn't find any in my check when I opened it up, but I didn't really look that closely. I did notice, however, that a coil of wire behind my tuner hardware looks like it was burnt at one point (the lower of the two coils seen in the photo below). Just behind a metal piece to the right of it is another, smaller pair of coils with a similar burn, oxidation, or wear point on the lower coil of the two. What could this mean?


----------



## brunk

@ssrock64 - I see the oxidizing on the coil, not really a big deal. You can just clean it off. However, it appears a resistor has gone bad, and possibly took some of the capacitor with it when it sparked off. I would get that replaced if I'm seeing it correctly in the picture.


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> The SA-7100 pictured is only 20 WPC!
> It was also the entry level but has the same fine phono section as the SA-9800.
> The market was not as competitive then so they could afford to make fewer models and spec them very well.
> The guts are very impressive considering she's a 20 watter...


 
  
 My SA-5800 photo as promised...


----------



## brunk

palmfish said:


> My SA-5800 photo as promised...


 
 Very nice! Are those new caps and transformer?


----------



## palmfish

brunk said:


> Very nice! Are those new caps and transformer?




No. Its only been opened twice...by me. Once to clean/dust and once for pictures.


----------



## brunk

palmfish said:


> No. Its only been opened twice...by me. Once to clean/dust and once for pictures.


 
 Excellent job on cleaning then!


----------



## ssrock64

> ...it appears a resistor has gone bad, and possibly took some of the capacitor with it when it sparked off. I would get that replaced if I'm seeing it correctly in the picture.


 
 I'll have that confirmed when I take it in for a general once-over at the nearest local shop tomorrow. I'm not very good at spotting faults, but I'll have him take a look at the resistor and search for loose solder joints as well. What could that resistor do to the unit if I keep using it broken? Could it be responsible for the right-channel vu-meter spike I saw last week?


----------



## PhoenixG

Heads up - if you're looking for a Sansui G22000, there's one up in Columbus
http://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/4173680513.html


----------



## brunk

ssrock64 said:


> I'll have that confirmed when I take it in for a general once-over at the nearest local shop tomorrow. I'm not very good at spotting faults, but I'll have him take a look at the resistor and search for loose solder joints as well. What could that resistor do to the unit if I keep using it broken? Could it be responsible for the right-channel vu-meter spike I saw last week?


 
 I'm not sure what the function is of that resistor in the circuit so I have no idea what it's for. However, if you leave it unrepaired, it will continue to knock its neighbors out of whack and eventually fail, possibly taking something out with it.


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> Heads up - if you're looking for a Sansui G22000, there's one up in Columbus
> http://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/4173680513.html


 
  
 Thanks, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




gonna go have a look...


----------



## harrinj

argybargy said:


> Can any of you turntable gurus recommend a vintage turntable that is a sonic and aesthetic match with the SX-1250? Something with some silver and wood. I'm looking for a budget unit under $500.




Marantz 6100/6300/6350 real nice and beautiful TTs.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> My SA-5800 photo as promised...


 
 I do love that amp of yours! Sitting there dressed in its oak finery. 
  
  
 Heres my European equivalent, exactly the same but no wood... Naked.. Thats why its hiding in the stand ha


----------



## SpeakerBox

brunk said:


> @ssrock64 - I see the oxidizing on the coil, not really a big deal. You can just clean it off. However, it appears a resistor has gone bad, and possibly took some of the capacitor with it when it sparked off. I would get that replaced if I'm seeing it correctly in the picture.


 
 If that is part of the tuner board, then it is most likely not the cause of the problem you are hearing - unless of course it only happens when using the tuner.  That said would be good to have it checked out.  If the problem always gets better after sitting, unused, a while - could be a thermal issue too.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> I do love that amp of yours! Sitting there dressed in its oak finery.
> 
> 
> Heres my European equivalent, exactly the same but no wood... Naked.. Thats why its hiding in the stand ha


 

 Actually, with the HD800 and laptop with glass and chrome rack your 508 without wood looks just right.


----------



## parbaked

palmfish said:


> My SA-5800 photo as promised...


 
 She pretty.
 The guts/architecture are surprisingly different considering these entry integrated amps are only a couple of generations apart.
  
 I do think the SA-7100 architecture is very elegant and straightforward.

  
 Also has a shield to isolate the pre-amp section.


----------



## Skylab

I love the look of the fluoroscan era Pioneer integrateds. I've never owned one, but I have a Pioneer cassette deck with fluoroscan meters that I just adore - both look and sound.


----------



## Argybargy

I had the Pioneer SX D7000 for a while. It sounded quite good, but got rid of it due to some background noise issues. This unit straddles the line between the classic silver face era and the long "Dark Ages" . They had very delicate front panels of near paper thin aluminum so its hard to find a mint one without a few dings. They also run HOT... Almost tube amp hot.
Loved the fluoroscan meters and overall look.


----------



## Oregonian

Just a comment on cold solder joint issues. Bad joints are not always easily seen with the naked eye. 

My Spec 2 amp took three tries to solve an intermittent issue because the first two techs did only a cursory fix. It took my new tech re soldering the entire amp board to solve the issue.


----------



## Argybargy

^ After doing any soldering I always check each joint at least twice with a magnifying glass.


----------



## palmfish

parbaked said:


> She pretty.
> The guts/architecture are surprisingly different considering these entry integrated amps are only a couple of generations apart.
> 
> I do think the SA-7100 architecture is very elegant and straightforward.
> ...




Yes, you're right. I remembered the transformer and big caps, but the layout of the boards and heat sinks does look nicer on the 7100.


----------



## parbaked

I'd never seen inside a 5800! 
 The X800s had a lot of new technology to including a non-switching amp designed that was very efficient, low heat and VERY low distortion.
 This got THD down to 0.03% on the SA-5800 v. 0.5% on the direct coupled SA-7100. Huge difference on paper!
 I guess that efficient design didn't need heat sinks. It is good to see the big caps and tranny!
 By that time, specifications were all important in marketing/selling audio.
 I think this is where the sound lost some of the warmth (but became more accurate) of the earlier amps.
  
 Gotta love that Pioneer!


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> I love the look of the fluoroscan era Pioneer integrateds. I've never owned one, but I have a Pioneer cassette deck with fluoroscan meters that I just adore - both look and sound.


 
  






 Now that my 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 has been serviced due to Fluoroscan meter being intermittent, the display offers a nice contrast to the other iron in the room.
  
  
  


argybargy said:


> I had the Pioneer SX D7000 for a while. It sounded quite good, but got rid of it due to some background noise issues. This unit straddles the line between the classic silver face era and the long "Dark Ages" . They had very delicate front panels of near paper thin aluminum so its hard to find a mint one without a few dings. They also run HOT... Almost tube amp hot.
> Loved the fluoroscan meters and overall look.


 
  
 I may have to fire mine up (D7000) 'cause I don't ever recall it running HOT. Of course, that's not to say it does not. Quite likely I could have been preoccupied by good music. 
  
 Still.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 now you have me curious, so tonight!


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> I love the look of the fluoroscan era Pioneer integrateds. I've never owned one, but I have a Pioneer cassette deck with fluoroscan meters that I just adore - both look and sound.


 
 Apparently you are not the only one...

  

  

 (images borrowed from AK)


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Now that my 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000 has been serviced due to Fluoroscan meter being intermittent, the display offers a nice contrast to the other iron in the room.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Find the hiding D7000:


----------



## Argybargy

I may have to fire mine up (D7000) 'cause I don't ever recall it running HOT. Of course, that's not to say it does not. Quite likely I could have been preoccupied by good music. 

Still....   now you have me curious, so tonight!
[/quote]

Possibly the heat was related to the minor noise issues, but I didn't have another unit to compare to. Pioneer used a "Vari-Bias" circuit which was supposed to emulate Class A, this probably is the source of the extra heat. Interestingly the massive transformer is located all the way on one side of the case, with the big heatsinks also on one side.
Makes for a very lopsided load when trying to carry the thing.
So all the heat should be on one side of the case.


----------



## Silent One

argybargy said:


> Possibly the heat was related to the minor noise issues, but I didn't have another unit to compare to. Pioneer used a "Vari-Bias" circuit which was supposed to emulate Class A, this probably is the source of the extra heat. Interestingly the massive transformer is located all the way on one side of the case, with the big heatsinks also on one side.
> Makes for a very lopsided load when trying to carry the thing.
> So all the heat should be on one side of the case.


 




 I know what you mean! The transformer is located in the left rear corner. I had 2" Isoblocks (rubber/cork) underneath around the corners and the amp always leaned (dipped?) in that corner. Haven't been able to un-squish the po' lil' thang yet!
  
 Now that you reminded me of the layout, I believe you're correct in that it runs hot.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Find the hiding D7000:


 





 For an owner w-a-y 2 easy!


----------



## moodyrn

I'm on the road again going to pick up something 3.5 hours away. Yeah I know, I'm nuts. So it must be something pretty special.


----------



## MattTCG

moodyrn said:


> I'm on the road again going to pick up something 3.5 hours away. Yeah I know, I'm nuts. So it must be something pretty special.


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> For an owner w-a-y 2 easy!


 
 Yeah you can see it listing to the heat sink side...


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> I'm on the road again going to pick up something 3.5 hours away. Yeah I know, I'm nuts. So it must be something pretty special.


 
 Here we go again guys... Lets get the tents set up in Moody's garden. Could be a long night!


----------



## calipilot227

silent one said:


> For an owner w-a-y 2 easy!


 
  
 Found it! And I don't own one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well, actually,


----------



## PhoenixG

Maybe Moody is going for his third sx-1980...


----------



## LugBug1

Hmmm... I think because of mine and Palmfish's post earlier on... Hes found a mint SA5800


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> Here we go again guys... Lets get the tents set up in Moody's garden. Could be a long night!


 
  
 In case he's delayed - through no fault of his own - better bust out the grill!


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> In case he's delayed - through no fault of his own - better bust out the grill!


 
 Just don't do this when he arrives to see the new goods lol.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ peed my pants!!


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> ^^ peed my pants!!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## parbaked

He was smart enough to only have 3 hot dogs on the grill when he tried that...
 I'm thinkin' SO would bring some fillet mignon and bubbly!


----------



## Silent One

With music pumpin' from the G22k!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, sorry for leaving you guys in suspense. It's been a very long day. Half way home feeling like I've been living in my car all day, I'm thinking.... man what were you thinking driving this far for a 30+ year old piece of iron. I'm beyond exhausted. I think my initial excitement got the better of me and now my body is paying the price.

Well maybe I was too excited in my initial post. It's not a 1980 or g22000. So maybe I led you all on a little. It's Still a rare beast nonetheless. Pics in five.


----------



## MattTCG

4.3.2.1...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> With music pumpin' from the G22k!


 
 I'm not worried 'cause I know you got one of these and a bike:

 Should fit the big G and a case of Moet...barely...


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## MattTCG

In all seriousness, I feel that Moody has an obligation to the loyal followers of this thread to make a grill jump attempt.


----------



## MattTCG

Just saw the pics. She is beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!
  
 And if you feel you've just got too many wonderful receivers, I offer to help you thin the heard.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> 4.3.2.1...


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> In all seriousness, I feel that Moody has an obligation to the loyal followers of this thread to make a grill jump attempt.


 
 Lol!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, it's absolutely mint. Not a scratch on her. I've been wanting a g9000 for a while. What a nice bonus it turned out to be the very rare g901 the Euro version of the 9000. And it's a db as well. I don't care anything about the db but it's more rare and goes for more than the non db for some strange reason.

But thankfully the g db's don't have the problems of the x0x0 db's since with these are fm only instead of being wired in the entire signal path like the others.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Lol, sorry for leaving you guys in suspense. It's been a very long day. Half way home feeling like I've been living in my car all day, I'm thinking.... man what were you thinking driving this far for a 30+ year old piece of iron. I'm beyond exhausted. I think my initial excitement got the better of me and now my body is paying the price.
> 
> Well maybe I was too excited in my initial post. It's not a 1980 or g22000. So maybe I led you all on a little. It's Still a rare beast nonetheless. Pics in five.


 
  

  





 You have NO idea. None. On what I would have done to get
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that bad boy. We would have hitched a modified cycling stroller and pedaled 50-75 miles a day, checking into roadside motels overnight.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, the seller was a stand up guy. He pulled the listing as soon as I said I was on my way. People were still calling as I was there to pick her up. Some ever tried offering a couple of hundred more than his asking price to steal it from me. You don't know how I was agonizing on the way there in fear he would sell it to someone else.


----------



## moodyrn

Looks like I have some cleaning to do!!


----------



## Silent One

Whew!


----------



## parbaked

Damn vents!


----------



## moodyrn

The pots are going to be trouble to get to. Pulled the top cover and bottom plate off and the only pots I can reach are balance, selector, and the volume(barely). I'm going to have to dismantle it and pull out the tone board to clean them. Fortunately I got those cleaned enough to get rid of the crackle and drop outs.


----------



## marone

Creek 3520, ~1988.

It would now be an excellent head-fi amp, but alas I sold it many years ago.


----------



## moodyrn

A few impressions, it definitely sounds different than any sansui I've listened to. I would say its a combination of the 907 and my restored 9090db strengths. But it don't beat neither at what they do best. More musical sounding than the 907 but not as musical as the 9090. More transparent than the 9090 but not as transparent as the 907. Tonal wise, it sounds a lot like the 1280, but has a rich, lush texture the 1280 doesn't have. Great extension at both ends. And the best slam I've heard from a vintage amp, similar to the 9500 which I recently sold(the high noise floor ended up being a deal breaker for me).

It's dynamic, musical, and powerful. It's sort of a jack of all trades but not the absolute master of none(except for the slam). It's does everything well, but not the best I've heard in any one area, but not lacking in any one area either.


----------



## Silent One

Well stated!


----------



## brunk

Very nice Moodyrn! Even though she's a bit dirty, sounds like she has some good bones


----------



## moodyrn

Yea, although very early, I feel comfortable in saying it's the best solid state receiver I've heard. Overall I would say it's a more musical sounding sx1280 with just a touch more body. It's challenging my 907 overall although it's apparent the 907 still does a couple of things better. So time will tell if it pulls ahead. But I really like what I'm hearing. 

And most of all, I can use my low impedance cans. That's where it pulls far ahead of the 9500. Although the 9500 have a better build quality. The 901 ranks behind the 907, 1280, and 9500 in that area. The build quality is still a little better than the 9090db and far ahead of any marantz I've owned.


----------



## moodyrn

Ok, this thing is putting everything else on notice when it comes to driving the he6. Excellent synergy. It can drive them from the headphone out with the -20db button engaged!! Only the big pioneers could do that. Absolutely no need for a pigtail. The combination of slight warmth, lushness, and dynamics are a match made in heaven for those. Sounds great with my 1540 and w3000 as well. I still prefer the fisher and 907 slightly with those. But my goodness do it sound killer with the he6.


----------



## Argybargy

Congrats it's a beauty!
Is the w3000anv hiss free from it?


----------



## moodyrn

A little hiss without the -20db button engaged. None with it. But there is just a slight hum. I'm hoping that will go away with cleaning and bias, voltage, etc adjustments. But if not, I'm ok with it. Only noticeable of you go back and forth plugging them in and out.


----------



## moodyrn

Thought I would post a pic echowars posted over at AK about what needs to be done to gett to all the pots and switches on the 901. I got my work cut out!!


----------



## Argybargy

Yikes! Lotta work indeed.

I've never seen oval filter caps in a vintage receiver. Are you planning on getting it restored?


----------



## moodyrn

One day. Those caps are exclusively sansui. They put those in their later totl stuff as well. I think those caps may be there to stay. But I will research it though.


----------



## calipilot227

Good luck! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
And please, please, please don't accidentally break anything!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I'm really going to need it.


----------



## Silent One

Get in there moodyrn!


----------



## LugBug1

brunk said:


> Just don't do this when he arrives to see the new goods lol.


 
  
 ^^ This has made my day  
  
  
  
  


moodyrn said:


>


 
 Thats a stunner Moody, really beautiful. Think I would have drove all week to get that puppy!


----------



## Skylab

Moody, congrats, that's an awesome G901dB!!! Those are supposed to be wonderful and I have always wanted a G9000/901 myself...never found one locally....good for you!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks. I think they both are the same internally although some claim the 901 sounds better. I don't know about that. But what I do like about the 901 vs the 9000 is the looks. Rosewood vs walnut on the 901. And more importantly the gun metal finish vs silver on the 9000. My only real complaint is the vinyl. I can't understand for the life of me why sansui chose to ditch the real walnut veneer. They started that with the g's and never looked back. One day I would like to strip it off in favor of a real wood veneer.


----------



## moodyrn

Stage 1 of clean up and maintainance is now complete. She's beginning to look like she should!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very, very, nice!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, now my arms, hands, and fingers are sore along with my shoulders and upper back. You really won't understand why some charge a healthy premium for a clean up job until you tackle it yourself.


----------



## betweentheears

Great job on the clean-up!!


----------



## MattTCG

Oval caps. Interesting...


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, I've brought a new friend home today, a Pioneer SX-1000TW. It needs a really thorough cleaning and some TLC, but it works and I think it'll turn out all right. It seems to have been the first SS receiver Pioneer made.


----------



## Trav

Ve





phoenixg said:


> Well, I've brought a new friend home today, a Pioneer SX-1000TW. It needs a really thorough cleaning and some TLC, but it works and I think it'll turn out all right. It seems to have been the first SS receiver Pioneer made.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## m17xr2b

Are there any sonic differences between the receivers and the amplifiers from the 70's? I'm thinking of getting a Pioneer SA-8500 II for my Audeze LCD-3/X . Love the vintage look and should have enough power to drive them from the headphone output.


----------



## Glow Fish

trav said:


> Just scored a near mint Sony STR 6065 at a really decent price. Photos soon.




I have. Sony STR 7035. Picked up at the Goodwill. Nice clear sound. Good headphone out. I have enjoyed with both HD650 and Mad Dogs.


----------



## LugBug1

m17xr2b said:


> Are there any sonic differences between the receivers and the amplifiers from the 70's? I'm thinking of getting a Pioneer SA-8500 II for my Audeze LCD-3/X . Love the vintage look and should have enough power to drive them from the headphone output.


 
 The SA-8500 II will be an excellent choice. Built from when Pioneer were doing very great things. It will have more than enough power from the hp-out for the Audeze. And yes it looks stunning.
  
 If you get it, let us know how you get on 
  
 Sonic differences apply for different models, both receiver and integrate. Some receivers sound better than amps and vice versa. I personally lean more towards integrate amps at the moment. But if I could afford a high end Pioneer or Sansui receiver then I would!


----------



## m17xr2b

lugbug1 said:


> The SA-8500 II will be an excellent choice. Built from when Pioneer were doing very great things. It will have more than enough power from the hp-out for the Audeze. And yes it looks stunning.
> 
> If you get it, let us know how you get on
> 
> Sonic differences apply for different models, both receiver and integrate. Some receivers sound better than amps and vice versa. I personally lean more towards integrate amps at the moment. But if I could afford a high end Pioneer or Sansui receiver then I would!


 
 So the SA just a SX 850 without the tuner? I hear many  good things about that receiver. In fact is this the same for all the models? SA7500 = SX750, SA9500 = SX950 etc?
 Not too much information on available for this vintage gear.
  
 PS: Can anyone tell me what model this is?


----------



## PhoenixG

The consensus on google image search is that it's an SX-5560, the euro version of the sx-750


----------



## m17xr2b

Hmm, might get that one instead of the SA8500 II. It looks so much nicer and for the same price(about 180USD), hope it will sound better even if the 8500 II has dual psu.


----------



## palmfish

m17xr2b said:


> Hmm, might get that one instead of the SA8500 II. It looks so much nicer and for the same price(about 180USD), hope it will sound better even if the 8500 II has dual psu.


 

 Oh no!!!!!
  
 The SA-8500 is in a completely different league. Unless you really want AM/FM radio, get the 8500!!!!!


----------



## calipilot227

palmfish said:


> Oh no!!!!!
> 
> The SA-8500 is in a completely different league. Unless you really want AM/FM radio, get the 8500!!!!!


 
  
 +1. The 8500 is a beast of an amp. It's a better value for your money, unless you need the radio tuner and the glowing tuner face (which, admittedly, does look quite stunning).
  
 Edit: Come to think of it, $180 was about what I paid for mine.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, the 8500 is next the totl 9500. Their integrated model numbers don't coincide with their receiver model numbers. The 8500 is to the 9500 what the sx1050 is to the sx1250. But their receivers are more powerful across the board but the build quality of their integrates are superb. I would love to get my hands on a 9800 or 9900 one day.


----------



## calipilot227

Did Pioneer ever make an integrated equivalent to the SX-1980?


----------



## parbaked

++3...The Pioneer amps are VERY good!


----------



## Skylab

calipilot227 said:


> Did Pioneer ever make an integrated equivalent to the SX-1980? :veryevil:




Not really. You had to go to Spec separates to get that much power output, at least. The 1980 was kind of its own thing. 

But I sure agree an SA-8500 is a much better choice than an SX-750, in spite of the latter being a very fine entry level receiver.


----------



## DemonFox

calipilot227 said:


> palmfish said:
> 
> 
> > Oh no!!!!!
> ...


 
  
 I just got contacted about purchasing a SA-8100. I don't expect it to be as beastly as a 8500 but what do you guys think about that and what would be a good price for clean functional SA-8100? 
  
 Also for those that have owned or tried 
  
 SX-3700 or SX-980 I have a pretty good lead on both. Would like to pick one up before this weekends local meet. 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## parbaked

demonfox said:


> I just got contacted about purchasing a SA-8100. I don't expect it to be as beastly as a 8500 but what do you guys think about that and what would be a good price for clean functional SA-8100?
> 
> Also for those that have owned or tried
> 
> ...


 
 IMO the SA-8100 is superior to any of the later Pioneer amps or receivers!
 The build quality and sound of the SA7100/8100/9100 are notable.
 The 9100 is arguably the best of the vintage Pioneer export iron.


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> Not really. You had to go to Spec separates to get that much power output, at least. The 1980 was kind of its own thing.
> 
> But I sure agree an SA-8500 is a much better choice than an SX-750, in spite of the latter being a very fine entry level receiver.


 
 The SA-9900, which is basically a Spec integrated, is the beast of the Pioneer amps = 120wpc!


----------



## Skylab

Yup, always wanted to check one of those out. Still, impressive as that is, it has neither the power supply massiveness nor the power output of a SX-1980. 

Always wanted an SA-9800, too...but just too much gear and too little space


----------



## parbaked

demonfox said:


> I just got contacted about purchasing a SA-8100. I don't expect it to be as beastly as a 8500 but what do you guys think about that and what would be a good price for clean functional SA-8100?
> 
> Also for those that have owned or tried
> 
> ...


 
 German thread on the SA-7100/8100/9100.
 With google translate you can learn what European collectors think of this series: http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-84-19407.html
 (lots of sweet pics too)


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> Yup, always wanted to check one of those out. Still, impressive as that is, it has neither the power supply massiveness nor the power output of a SX-1980.


 
 True, but it has handles so you can take it with you to parties!


----------



## Skylab

parbaked said:


> True, but it has handles so you can take it with you to parties!




Sure...a party for body builders !!!!


----------



## Oregonian

calipilot227 said:


> Did Pioneer ever make an integrated equivalent to the SX-1980? :veryevil:




Spec 2 @250 WPC


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Yup, always wanted to check one of those out. Still, impressive as that is, it has neither the power supply massiveness nor the power output of a SX-1980.
> 
> Always wanted an SA-9800, too...but just too much gear and too little space


 
  
 During a previous bout with flooding, I'm almost certain it was you I heard scream _"All hands on deck!" _way out West.


----------



## nailbunny7

I actually got a SA-9900 recently, but I wasn't sure if I wanted it or my SX-5590 more. Wife said I could only have one and that I have to sell the other...


----------



## Silent One

When will we know how it went down, which survived and why?


----------



## nailbunny7

silent one said:


> When will we know how it went down, which survived and why?


 
 Well, she said I have until christmas, so I have awhile to make my decision  Though I love them both


----------



## moodyrn

Love the 9900. The sx5590 is attractive also.


----------



## ssrock64

nailbunny7 said:


> Well, she said I have until christmas, so I have awhile to make my decision  Though I love them both


 
 Merry Christmas!
  
 Your gift this year is -1 receiver.


----------



## Argybargy

What is it about women and stereo equipment???

I guess I'm lucky, my wife likes vintage gear. Actually she's been bugging me for months to get a vintage turntable, ever since I sold our old Music Hall without telling her!

I'm an all digital guy... but anyway got her a Thorens which I'll keep under wraps til Christmas.

This isn't the actual unit, but same model.


----------



## parbaked

nailbunny7 said:


> I actually got a SA-9900 recently, but I wasn't sure if I wanted it or my SX-5590 more. Wife said I could only have one and that I have to sell the other...


 
 Wow, those are both great in their own way!
 The SA-9900 may actually sound better (you would know), but the 5590 is the classiest of the Pioneer receivers!
 My gut is that you'd be able to find another 9900. The 5590 is really special find that you can always sell for a premium...


----------



## parbaked

argybargy said:


> What is it about women and stereo equipment???
> 
> I guess I'm lucky, my wife likes vintage gear. Actually she's been bugging me for months to get a vintage turntable, ever since I sold our old Music Hall without telling her!
> 
> ...


 
 I'd say you are BOTH very lucky!
 Enjoy!!


----------



## Argybargy

parbaked said:


> I'd say you are BOTH very lucky!
> Enjoy!!





The color of the plinth doesn't quite match the SX-1250, so i may have to give the latter a slightly darker/redder stain than stock.


----------



## Silent One

nailbunny7 said:


> Well, she said I have until christmas, so I have awhile to make my decision  Though I love them both


 
  
 Between now and then, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




your listening sessions could prove to be the real winner in all of this. Leaving you in a better place.


----------



## mhamel

demonfox said:


> I just got contacted about purchasing a SA-8100. I don't expect it to be as beastly as a 8500 but what do you guys think about that and what would be a good price for clean functional SA-8100?
> 
> Also for those that have owned or tried
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've got a fully restored SA-9100 and absolutely love how it sounds.  It also makes a fantastic headphone amp.  My primary LCD-3 rig is Gungnir->SA-9100->LCD-3.   
  
 One thing to keep in mind... the SA-8100/SA-9100 are almost 40 years old.   No matter how functional it is, if it hasn't been re-capped, it most likely needs to be.   There are also some known flaky transistors in these that should be replaced, since 90% of the work is getting to them and the boards would already be out for re-capping.   On the up-side, it's totally worth restoring, especially if it's cosmetically good and you can get it for a decent price.


----------



## parbaked

mhamel said:


> I've got a fully restored SA-9100 and absolutely love how it sounds.  It also makes a fantastic headphone amp.  My primary LCD-3 rig is Gungnir->SA-9100->LCD-3.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind... the SA-8100/SA-9100 are almost 40 years old.   No matter how functional it is, if it hasn't been re-capped, it most likely needs to be.   There are also some known flaky transistors in these that should be replaced, since 90% of the work is getting to them and the boards would already be out for re-capping.   On the up-side, it's totally worth restoring, especially if it's cosmetically good and you can get it for a decent price.I


 
 I haven't been inside the more complicated 8100/9100, but one beauties of the 7100 is the easy access to everything.
 The 7100/8100/9100 are truly special in the realm of vintage amps...


----------



## mhamel

parbaked said:


> I haven't been inside the more complicated 8100/9100, but one beauties of the 7100 is the easy access to everything.
> The 7100/8100/9100 are truly special in the realm of vintage amps...


 
  
 I lucked out with these.   The SA-9100 was restored by EchoWars over at AK and I picked it up with the matching TX-9100 tuner that had also been completely restored and upgraded by PunkerX.


----------



## parbaked

mhamel said:


> I lucked out with these.   The SA-9100 was restored by EchoWars over at AK and I picked it up with the matching TX-9100 tuner that had also been completely restored and upgraded by PunkerX.


 
 You are in good shape!
 The later tuners were better, but the chassis are larger so they just don't match.
 IMO you have the end game vintage amp/tuner!


----------



## DemonFox

argybargy said:


> What is it about women and stereo equipment???
> 
> I guess I'm lucky, my wife likes vintage gear. Actually she's been bugging me for months to get a vintage turntable, ever since I sold our old Music Hall without telling her!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Truth is _*SOME *_ women just don't like it when Men are happy on their own. And its not the same both ways so sorry if that sounds sexist but I assure you it is not lol. If its not them making you happy then they don't like it! Some always feel like they are competing with everything we do and lord help us if they aren't "winning". I made sure my wife knew right when she started dating about my hobbies. Video games, sports, and audio stuff and hell even WWE (my kids are now addicted to WWE). She was cool with that and understood not just tolerated it and almost 10 years later we've never had a problem with any of it. It can be expensive to say the least but as long as I don't use bill money or put us in the hole its never a concern or problem. I don't drink go out or waist money on stupid things so as far as hobbies go we can do a lot worse than audio gear... 
  
 Just my two cents
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## DemonFox

mhamel said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > I just got contacted about purchasing a SA-8100. I don't expect it to be as beastly as a 8500 but what do you guys think about that and what would be a good price for clean functional SA-8100?
> ...


 
  
 Ok, thanks for the heads up!! I'm very new to the vintage scene so that is very valuable information. The price is very good I think (help me out here folks) dude told me for both SX-980 & SA-8100 in good condition  for $225. Does that seem like a fair deal or is $200 closer to the right price. Honestly I have no idea so thanks in advance and again for all of your help!
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## nailbunny7

mhamel said:


> I've got a fully restored SA-9100 and absolutely love how it sounds.  It also makes a fantastic headphone amp.  My primary LCD-3 rig is Gungnir->SA-9100->LCD-3.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind... the SA-8100/SA-9100 are almost 40 years old.   No matter how functional it is, if it hasn't been re-capped, it most likely needs to be.   There are also some known flaky transistors in these that should be replaced, since 90% of the work is getting to them and the boards would already be out for re-capping.   On the up-side, it's totally worth restoring, especially if it's cosmetically good and you can get it for a decent price.


 
 I'm running a very similar set up 
 Gungnir ---> SA-9900 ---> Hifiman HE-6 and Fully Modded Magnepan SMGa (mods done by me. Pic of one of them below)


----------



## calipilot227

Whoa! Does the SA-9900 really have enough power for the Maggies? I thought my MGIIa's sounded alright with the SA-8500 (60 wpc), but much better with the Hafler DH220 (110wpc). Then again, I do like to listen _really_ loud...


----------



## nailbunny7

The SA-9900 puts out 120 Wrms minimum per channel @8 ohms. More than adequate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I usually never have to have the volume knob above two knotches.


----------



## LugBug1

nailbunny7 said:


> Well, she said I have until christmas, so I have awhile to make my decision  Though I love them both


 
 Get rid of your wife... There's plenty of them knocking about.


----------



## calipilot227

nailbunny7 said:


> The SA-9900 puts out 120 Wrms minimum per channel @8 ohms. More than adequate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nevermind then! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I was thinking of the 9500 then (80 wpc, I believe).


----------



## LugBug1

I'd so love to own one of those high end Pioneer integrate's... Unfortunately I would need to re-mortgage the house to afford one. They rarely pop up in the uk and when they do they are unfairly priced. Even if they sounded a little better than my SA508 then they will be worth it. It's the clarity and refinement that the Pioneers have over other big names of the time in ime of mid-end. Even though I probably appreciate the warmer silky nature of Sansui more subjectively, I really do appreciate the Pioneer's finesse.


----------



## MattTCG

demonfox said:


> Truth is _*SOME *_ women just don't like it when Men are happy on their own. And its not the same both ways so sorry if that sounds sexist but I assure you it is not lol. If its not them making you happy then they don't like it! Some always feel like they are competing with everything we do and lord help us if they aren't "winning". I made sure my wife knew right when she started dating about my hobbies. Video games, sports, and audio stuff and hell even WWE (my kids are now addicted to WWE). She was cool with that and understood not just tolerated it and almost 10 years later we've never had a problem with any of it. It can be expensive to say the least but as long as I don't use bill money or put us in the hole its never a concern or problem. I don't drink go out or waist money on stupid things so as far as hobbies go we can do a lot worse than audio gear...
> 
> Just my two cents
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe your wife and mine could get together for lunch and a hen session. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can you imagine the conversations some of the wives of vintage gear collectors? Oh the stories they could tell.


----------



## Skylab

nailbunny7 said:


> I'm running a very similar set up
> Gungnir ---> SA-9900 ---> Hifiman HE-6 and Fully Modded Magnepan SMGa (mods done by me. Pic of one of them below)




That's an amazing looking mod job on those Maggie's. Congrats!!!!



silent one said:


> During a previous bout with flooding, I'm almost certain it was you I heard scream _"All hands on deck!"_ way out West.




LOLOL! Could have been  Although in truth the 1980 that's in the basement is 5 feet off the floor. God forbid I ever get THAT much water down there...


----------



## parbaked

nailbunny7 said:


> The SA-9900 puts out 120 Wrms minimum per channel @8 ohms. More than adequate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The 9900 is a beast! It is basically a Spec integrated amp. 
 Do the backlights still work on the volume knob? That was one of the really cool features (that and the handles).
 I believe it was designed to also be used in schools/offices so it could be lugged around to rooms/events to provide audio - hence the handles, side plugs and lack of wood cabinets.


----------



## mhamel

nailbunny7 said:


> I'm running a very similar set up
> Gungnir ---> SA-9900 ---> Hifiman HE-6 and Fully Modded Magnepan SMGa (mods done by me. Pic of one of them below)


 
  
 Nice job on the Maggies!
  
 I run a set of Mini Maggies on my desk here, but hadn't thought about trying them with the SA-9100 due to the power requirements.   Currently they are happily eating up 525w/ch from a Crown XLS, fed from a BAT VK-5i tube pre.  The Gungnir does double duty with the SE outputs going to the SA-9100/Headphone rig and the balanced outputs going to the VK-5i.
  
    -Mike


----------



## Destroysall

demonfox said:


> Ok, thanks for the heads up!! I'm very new to the vintage scene so that is very valuable information. The price is very good I think (help me out here folks) dude told me for both SX-980 & SA-8100 in good condition  for $225. Does that seem like a fair deal or is $200 closer to the right price. Honestly I have no idea so thanks in advance and again for all of your help!
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 

 Hell I think it's pretty fair of a deal. Keep one and sell me the other.


----------



## DemonFox

destroysall said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, thanks for the heads up!! I'm very new to the vintage scene so that is very valuable information. The price is very good I think (help me out here folks) dude told me for both SX-980
> ...




Well then I shall see you on Saturday lol I'll post the pictures here when he sends then to me later today so I can get what y'all's impressions of the gear is. 



Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> Maybe your wife and mine could get together for lunch and a hen session.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My girl and I have an arrangement:


----------



## DemonFox

matttcg said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > Truth is _*SOME *_ women just don't like it when Men are happy on their own. And its not the same both ways so sorry if that sounds sexist but I assure you it is not lol. If its not them making you happy then they don't like it! Some always feel like they are competing with everything we do and lord help us if they aren't "winning". I made sure my wife knew right when she started dating about my hobbies. Video games, sports, and audio stuff and hell even WWE (my kids are now addicted to WWE). She was cool with that and understood not just tolerated it and almost 10 years later we've never had a problem with any of it. It can be expensive to say the least but as long as I don't use bill money or put us in the hole its never a concern or problem. I don't drink go out or waist money on stupid things so as far as hobbies go we can do a lot worse than audio gear...
> ...


 
  
 LOL I know right... He spent how much on what?? oh boy... That would be fun times. Funny enough my wife is a professional blogger so she really has no room to complain. Now the difference is she gets EVERYTHING for free and I have to buy sale or trade all my gear to get new gear. I wish I could get all the swag that she gets but I shouldn't complain, she gotten me several games and movies prior to release so again there are worse things  
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## DemonFox

Ok, guys now I know its just a picture but tell me what you think about this set up here. I already checked with my guy and he said it look good but I still need to make sure its functional. But tell me what you guys think of at least the outside.
  
  

  

  

  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## calipilot227




----------



## Destroysall

demonfox said:


> Ok, guys now I know its just a picture but tell me what you think about this set up here. I already checked with my guy and he said it look good but I still need to make sure its functional. But tell me what you guys think of at least the outside.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
I think they look great, love the finish! I would definitely check them out in person before-hand though.


----------



## Silent One

calipilot227 said:


>


 
 Another chug!


----------



## DemonFox

silent one said:


> calipilot227 said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
  




  
  
 After three things are gonna get sloppy...  
  
  
  
 I shall be testing them out tomorrow! Wish me luck! 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Silent One

New rack tonight! BUT...
  
  
 THE SANSUI G-22000 DOESN'T FIT


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> New rack tonight! BUT...
> 
> 
> THE SANSUI G-22000 DOESN'T FIT


 
 Awwww man! Really nice rack. Verrr posh! To be fair, it may look better on its own sitting somewhere else... Put it where ever your tv is. We don't need tv's here


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Awwww man! Really nice rack. Verrr posh! To be fair, it may look better on its own sitting somewhere else... *Put it where ever your tv is. We don't need tv's here  *


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah to bad that beast is too monsterous for the new rack. But I'm really digging the rack though.


----------



## Silent One

BIG thanks, moodyrn!


----------



## MattTCG

@Silent One 
  
 Very nice rack!! I wish that I had that kind of space to work with. I have been demoted to the kitchen breakfast area for my pseudo man cave. It's rough guys....rough. Ideally I need to be about 7 feet from my large advents. I'm only two feet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Trav has seen my space. 
  
 So basically they are near field monitors. Oh, the shame of it all...


----------



## Silent One

I'm feeling for you... that's 2 feet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




2 close! But the bigger picture looks better with your compliance.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> @Silent One
> 
> 
> Very nice rack!! I wish that I had that kind of space to work with. I have been demoted to the kitchen breakfast area for my pseudo man cave. It's rough guys....rough. Ideally I need to be about 7 feet from my large advents. I'm only two feet. :eek:   Trav has seen my space.
> ...




I feel your pain!! One of the compromises of married life. My wife gives me 10% of closet space. I just recently had to put my foot down to get two drawers(out off 12) from our dresser. I finally had enough of living out of the laundry room.


----------



## MattTCG

moodyrn said:


> I feel your pain!! One of the compromises of married life. My wife gives me 10% of closet space. I just recently had to put my foot down to get two drawers(out off 12) from our dresser. I finally had enough of living out of the laundry room.


 
  
 Whew...glad I'm not the only one.


----------



## DemonFox

Hey guys,
  
 So I went and took a peak at the SX-980 and SA-8100 and both were very clean but the SA-8100 will need a little work but when I did get some sound out of it it was fantastic and the SX-980 was working great so I'm pretty happy about that beast. 
  
 I do have a question (probably first of many so be nice) but the metal bars on the back that connect the Preamp out and power amp in. What are those called and is it possible to buy them? I want to ultimately bridge the two together (RIght?) but for now I'm going to take it one step at at time. I'm going to need to do some work on them but at least the SX-980 is ready to be used right now and my goodness its sounds amazing with the TH600's. Such power and force but nothing overstated in its own way. I'm sure just like everything else there are better and cleaner sounding amps out there but as far as first vintage amps goes I think I'm off to a decent start! 
  
  
 Thanks, and here we go!


----------



## parbaked

Those are pre-power jumpers.
 Obviously you need to figure out the correct size.
 AQ makes a flexible cable one but it is probably expensive and not necessary if you find the correct size for your component:
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html/?_nkw=pre%20amp%20jumpers


----------



## DemonFox

What do you consider expensive? Is $10 to much for custom set? And thanks a ton. I never would have figured out what they were called on my own. 

Now can someone tell me the benefit of pairing the sx-980 and SA-8100 together? Is that even an option?? 


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## parbaked

demonfox said:


> What do you consider expensive? Is $10 to much for custom set? And thanks a ton. I never would have figured out what they were called on my own.
> 
> Now can someone tell me the benefit of pairing the sx-980 and SA-8100 together? Is that even an option??
> 
> ...


 
 I'd say no benefit unless the amp or pre-amp of one or the other was broken and you didn't want to fix it. 
 That function is really designed to mate either with either i) a power amp that has no pre-amp or ii) a pre-amp with no power amp.
 Not really for mating a receiver and integrated as that is redundant...(unless something is broken)


----------



## MattTCG

Found an sx1280 not 10 minutes from my house!! It's a 9 cosmetically but needs some work electrically. I plan to do a full resto on this one and call it end game for sure. 
  
 If anyone has an x80 series knob for sale, send me a pm. Pics coming up.


----------



## DemonFox

parbaked said:


> demonfox said:
> 
> 
> > What do you consider expensive? Is $10 to much for custom set? And thanks a ton. I never would have figured out what they were called on my own.
> ...


 
  
 Ok, so say the one that isn't functioning properly is the SA-8100. It works and its stupid (insane amount of force out of the headphone out)  powerful but it has a lot of static and likes to cut out a lot. Would there be any reason to attach it to the receiver?? I'm thinking no. Bass is stronger stock from the SA-8100 and sound is a bit warmer and I feel like I'm just scratching the service with it. Its sounds amazing once things stop scratching and cutting out. Still looks great on the outside as well so it may just need a bit of TLC to really sing. 
  
 All in all I'm very happy about the purchase. 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## moodyrn

Sound like all it need is a good treatment of deoxit. Congrats


----------



## MattTCG

Pics...I am SO glad to have the 1280 back.


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> I plan to do a full resto on this one and call it end game for now...


 
 FTFY


----------



## moodyrn

Beautiful Matt!! I hope you can get it going soon.


----------



## MattTCG

moodyrn said:


> Beautiful Matt!! I hope you can get it going soon.


 
  
 Me too Moody...me too. 
  
 Many thanks for taking my 911 call.


----------



## DemonFox

moodyrn said:


> Sound like all it need is a good treatment of deoxit. Congrats




Ok great! Where do I get the Deoxit and would someone mind posting a favorite kit they like to use or prefer?? 


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## MattTCG

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-Deoxit-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385080652&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit
  
 This is the best deal I know of.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > I plan to do a full resto on this one and call it end game for now...
> ...


 
  
  


moodyrn said:


> Beautiful Matt!! I hope you can get it going soon.


 
 +!


----------



## calipilot227

I've bought DeOxit at Radio Shack in the past, don't remember what I paid for it though.


----------



## MattTCG

It's the same money for 1/5 the amount at RS compared to amazon.


----------



## Silent One

_Click & Ship, baby!_


----------



## DemonFox

Ok, Amazon it is! Thanks for all the help guys! Stinks I can't get it directly from Amazon right now. Looks like they are back ordered, but I was able to get one for only 8.99 from a solid seller so all in all im happy  
  
 Here's what I'm working with. I haven't touched it yet so this is how clean they were when I bought them. I'm sure the inside is another story but as far as the outside goes it could be worse. I'll try and take some better pics tomorrow of just the SX-980 but I love the look of both of them.  
  
  
  

  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## brunk

matttcg said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-Deoxit-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1385080652&sr=8-1&keywords=deoxit
> 
> This is the best deal I know of.


 
 gotcha beat buddy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
$9.95 adorama
  
 FYI: 9 times out of 10 other places are quite a bit cheaper than amazon, doesn't take much hunting either. Download 'invisiblehand' browser addon, and use google 'shopping' tab...done.


----------



## Oregonian

demonfox said:


> Ok, Amazon it is! Thanks for all the help guys! Stinks I can't get it directly from Amazon right now. Looks like they are back ordered, but I was able to get one for only 8.99 from a solid seller so all in all im happy
> 
> Here's what I'm working with. I haven't touched it yet so this is how clean they were when I bought them. I'm sure the inside is another story but as far as the outside goes it could be worse. I'll try and take some better pics tomorrow of just the SX-980 but I love the look of both of them.
> 
> ...


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Pics...I am SO glad to have the 1280 back.


 
 Thats the one! Give her an deoxit bath, polish her parts and then plug yourself in. Congrats. 
  
 have you not got a spare knob to fit for now? Unlike the likes of Marantz, Pioneers tend to have all different size controls so any silver knob shouldn't look too out of place.


----------



## MattTCG

Yesterday I did the full deoxit treatment. Today I am doing to seriously cleaning of the face, interior treatment, back panel and such. Now I'm refurbishing the cabinet, which is already in decent condition. Two coats of Howards, then rub down and let dry. Followed with a coat of Feed and Wax.


----------



## DemonFox

matttcg said:


> Yesterday I did the full deoxit treatment. Today I am doing to seriously cleaning of the face, interior treatment, back panel and such. Now I'm refurbishing the cabinet, which is already in decent condition. Two coats of Howards, then rub down and let dry. Followed with a coat of Feed and Wax.


 
  
 Are you taking pictures of each step before and after?? Very interested to see how this turns out for you!
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Yesterday I did the full deoxit treatment. Today I am doing to seriously cleaning of the face, interior treatment, back panel and such. Now I'm refurbishing the cabinet, which is already in decent condition. *Two coats of Howards, then rub down and let dry. Followed with a coat of Feed and Wax. *


 





 Now, that's some love right there!


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> Now, that's some love right there!


 





 he knows how to treat his lovelies! I'm sure there'l have been some lighted candles and incense burnin whilst he was working..


----------



## SpeakerBox

I believe Guitar Center also carries DeoxIt if you have one near you.


----------



## Skylab

Matt I'm not home at the moment but shoot me a PM, I think I have a knob for you.


----------



## LugBug1

skylab said:


> shoot me a PM, I think I have a knob for you.


 
 Matt, now there is an offer you can't refuse 
  
  
(ur a goodin Rob)


----------



## Skylab

LOLOL! I knew someone would crack wise


----------



## magiccabbage

lugbug1 said:


> Matt, now there is an offer you can't refuse
> 
> 
> (ur a goodin Rob)


 
 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## cskippy

So I've found myself in an unexpectedly awesome situation!  My dad had some old vintage stereo equipment tucked away after he upgraded the entertainment center.  I didn't think anything of it until I went to the AZ Head-Fi meet yesterday.  I met some truly awesome people!  Some had very expensive rigs costing several thousands of dollars while other's rigs were more modest ( myself included).  After listening to the majority of the rigs and headphones, I found myself gravitating back to DemonFox's vintage pioneer integrated reciever.  That got me interested in vintage gear and made me remember that my dad had some old gear.
  
 I was shocked when I found out he had an immaculate pioneer Spec 1 AND Spec 2!  Needless to say, I immediately hooked them up to my headphone rig.  Words can't quite describe what my brain recieved when I hit play on that first song.  Without touching the EQ or anything, the music had unbelievable detail, clarity, and soundstage all while sounding absolutely smooth.  There was no harshness with anything, yet detail retrieval and instrument separation was the best I have heard!
  
 I do need to use deoxit to fix some scratchyness and rare channel cut-out.  That will be a fun little project.
  
 Thanks DemonFox for showing me the way of vintage pioneer bliss!


----------



## parbaked

cskippy said:


> Thanks DemonFox for showing me the way of vintage pioneer bliss!


----------



## Destroysall

cskippy said:


> I was shocked when I found out he had an immaculate pioneer Spec 1 AND Spec 2!


 
 You have a beast on your hands there, good sir. The Spec 2 is rated at 250wpc; more info here → http://www.hifiengine.com/library/pioneer/spec-2.shtml


----------



## cskippy

Yeah, I checked out the manuals for both.  The Spec 1 needs to be connected to a poweramp to use the headphone output.  Here's a pic.


----------



## MattTCG

Wow, that's just a beautiful setup!!


----------



## elrod-tom

cskippy said:


> Yeah, I checked out the manuals for both.  The Spec 1 needs to be connected to a poweramp to use the headphone output.  Here's a pic.


 
  
 Oh my....I knew someone who had that very rig once upon a time.  Nice!


----------



## MattTCG

The meters!! Oh my gosh, those meters...


----------



## jasonb

Sweet!


----------



## Oregonian

cskippy said:


> So I've found myself in an unexpectedly awesome situation!  My dad had some old vintage stereo equipment tucked away after he upgraded the entertainment center.  I didn't think anything of it until I went to the AZ Head-Fi meet yesterday.  I met some truly awesome people!  Some had very expensive rigs costing several thousands of dollars while other's rigs were more modest ( myself included).  After listening to the majority of the rigs and headphones, I found myself gravitating back to DemonFox's vintage pioneer integrated reciever.  That got me interested in vintage gear and made me remember that my dad had some old gear.
> 
> I was shocked when I found out he had an immaculate pioneer Spec 1 AND Spec 2!  Needless to say, I immediately hooked them up to my headphone rig.  Words can't quite describe what my brain recieved when I hit play on that first song.  Without touching the EQ or anything, the music had unbelievable detail, clarity, and soundstage all while sounding absolutely smooth.  There was no harshness with anything, yet detail retrieval and instrument separation was the best I have heard!
> 
> ...




It took me a month to get DemonFox off the fence and buy a vintage amp. Glad he is now a convert and spreading the gospel!

Here's my Specs in a rack........nothing like these.


----------



## DemonFox

cskippy said:


> So I've found myself in an unexpectedly awesome situation!  My dad had some old vintage stereo equipment tucked away after he upgraded the entertainment center.  I didn't think anything of it until I went to the AZ Head-Fi meet yesterday.  I met some truly awesome people!  Some had very expensive rigs costing several thousands of dollars while other's rigs were more modest ( myself included).  After listening to the majority of the rigs and headphones, I found myself gravitating back to DemonFox's vintage pioneer integrated reciever.  That got me interested in vintage gear and made me remember that my dad had some old gear.
> 
> I was shocked when I found out he had an immaculate pioneer Spec 1 AND Spec 2!  Needless to say, I immediately hooked them up to my headphone rig.  Words can't quite describe what my brain recieved when I hit play on that first song.  Without touching the EQ or anything, the music had unbelievable detail, clarity, and soundstage all while sounding absolutely smooth.  There was no harshness with anything, yet detail retrieval and instrument separation was the best I have heard!
> 
> ...


 
  
 My pleasure bro! Always fun making new friends. I wanted vintage because I wanted to try something new and my boy like he said talked me into it. I fell into a steal of an amp and I'll never go back to the modern stuff again!! I may try the new Schiit Vali when it drops just to see how it sounds but honestly I'm gonna keep vintage hunting and snatch up everything I can find that's an upgrade to what I have now. I will start restoring and cleaning my SA-8100 to see if its salvageable. That things has eff tons of power and I liked it when I got it to function right so we'll see what happens. 
  
 Chris is you want me to take the piece of junk off of your Dad's hands let me know k...  
  
  
 But like Chris was saying we had some heavy hitters there on Saturday. Like a Eddie Current Balancing act with upgraded EVERYTHING. A sic Decware Taboo custom set up with some of the most expensive tubes I've ever seen. A Woo Audio WA6 with all kinds of custom stuff, and a ton more that I didn't get to listen to but my Vintage stood toe to toe with all of them and more than a few prefered its sounds to the others that were there. It just works with no gimmicks or nonsense. 
  
 Big Fan
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## moodyrn

Oregonian and cskippy, those spec rigs are just stunning. And I'm so jealous.


----------



## calipilot227

I was messing around with strobes today. My subject was very cooperative, didn't mind at all having an umbrella stuck in its face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The SA-8500 is visible in the shot, so I can post it in this thread.


----------



## Silent One

_Very nice._


----------



## parbaked

^+1..lookin' good...


----------



## Skylab

Indeed!!! That's a great shot of a sweet deck


----------



## Skylab

For those of you who, like me, enjoy drooling at cool pics of vintage gear, this thread will chew up a lot of your time, and data plan...

http://forum.vintage-audio-laser.com/galerie-photos/topic56.html


----------



## mhamel

skylab said:


> For those of you who, like me, enjoy drooling at cool pics of vintage gear, this thread will chew up a lot of your time, and data plan...
> 
> http://forum.vintage-audio-laser.com/galerie-photos/topic56.html


 
  
  
 Man, that thread is pure vintage audio geek p0rn.   Nice find.


----------



## Argybargy

Cool gear and some excellent photography. That wall of vintage goodness in the attic(?) looks amazing.


----------



## Argybargy




----------



## Neccros

I was given a Harman Kardon receiver model AVR70....
  
 Anyone know if this is "Vintage" or how good it is???   Its sitting here in the box.
  
 Here is a pic


----------



## calipilot227

"Vintage:" not quite. It looks to be from the late 1990s/early 2000's. As for "good," you own it, let your ears be the judge


----------



## calipilot227

skylab said:


> For those of you who, like me, enjoy drooling at cool pics of vintage gear, this thread will chew up a lot of your time, and data plan...
> 
> http://forum.vintage-audio-laser.com/galerie-photos/topic56.html


 
  
 This needs an NSFW tag. It's pretty much porn


----------



## harrinj

My Marantz 4400 front left channel has stopped working and it was just at Audio Specialties  The rear channels work fine. I've checked all the fuses and they are all perfect. so what is it a transistor issue? it worked fine and today nothing out of the left front channel. when I turn it off the usual static still comes out of the left until it discharges. I am getting real tired of lugging these big heavy things around and am about done with it all to be honest, Portland is 200 miles away and its been there twice and $160 invested into it on top of the $400 I paid for it.


----------



## harrinj

no left front channel sound on any of the front inputs, man is this frustrating! I've taken each fuse out and nothings wrong. the transistors look fine on the affected side. This 4400 was working fine just two days ago.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> My Marantz 4400 front left channel has stopped working and it was just at Audio Specialties  The rear channels work fine. I've checked all the fuses and they are all perfect. so what is it a transistor issue? it worked fine and today nothing out of the left front channel. when I turn it off the usual static still comes out of the left until it discharges. I am getting real tired of lugging these big heavy things around and am about done with it all to be honest, Portland is 200 miles away and its been there twice and $160 invested into it on top of the $400 I paid for it.





harrinj said:


> My Marantz 4400 front left channel has stopped working and it was just at Audio Specialties  The rear channels work fine. I've checked all the fuses and they are all perfect. so what is it a transistor issue? it worked fine and today nothing out of the left front channel. when I turn it off the usual static still comes out of the left until it discharges. I am getting real tired of lugging these big heavy things around and am about done with it all to be honest, Portland is 200 miles away and its been there twice and $160 invested into it on top of the $400 I paid for it.




That sucks, sorry it keeps failing you. I had to bring my Spec 2 back and forth three times, and I only am 20 minutes away. Can't imagine being 2 hours away, I'd be kind of pissed. Have you called him yet? He does stand behind his work, I'll give him that.


----------



## LugBug1

skylab said:


> For those of you who, like me, enjoy drooling at cool pics of vintage gear, this thread will chew up a lot of your time, and data plan...
> 
> http://forum.vintage-audio-laser.com/galerie-photos/topic56.html


 
 Fantastique! Serious eye candy thanks. 
  
  
 I've just picked up another Rotel today, I was that impressed with the hp stage on my recent NAD that I've been looking to try some other amps from the same period.
  
 Anyways its the RA-820BX2. Just like my NAD 3020i its another great headphone amplifier. Not as warm as the NAD but extremely balanced and neutral. It's a nice alternative. No hiss or noise at all even with the HD800's turned right up! In very good condition, only the black paint has worn on the volume knob.
  
 Very modern and minimalist looking and doesn't really look like a typical 1980's design. Heres a promo shot of it because I haven't got my camera handy. Very pleased for £60.


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys,
  
 just want to pass on that I got my sx1050 back from Terry Dewick out of Knoxville. He did a tremendously nice job on it. I was able to pick it up on my way to visit family in VA, so I saved myself the trip to get it. The only disappointment is that I can listen to it until I return to Atlanta on Saturday. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I decided to drop off the sx1280 for the full resto also.


----------



## Skylab

Nice!!! Will look forward to a full report!!!!


----------



## jasonb

looks like I have a great night ahead of me...


----------



## Silent One

"Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!"


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> "Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!"


 
 I'm thankful your Shindos have found a home so we can see them every once and a while.
 Enjoy!


----------



## Silent One

I just fired up dem bad boys 45 minutes ago... we likes extended warm-ups.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's vinyl night in SoCal.


----------



## parbaked

I hope you were good this year and Santa brings you speakers!
 I fired up my VTL after 5 years in boxes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 It's a good to warm dem valves!!


----------



## Silent One

That's a _very _long time. Got KEF Corda 9s standing in for now; will pair them up tomorrow night - briefly with the Sansui, then Shindo... then out the door to hang out some late night.


----------



## Skylab

I'm enjoying a little me time before the whole family shin-dig tomorrow 



Happy thanksgiving to all readers of this awesome folder!!!!


----------



## Silent One

back @cha!


----------



## musicman59

skylab said:


> I'm enjoying a little me time before the whole family shin-dig tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Holly cow Rob! That receiver at the top is a total monster!
 Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> I'm enjoying a little me time before the whole family shin-dig tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm thankful that you are wearing socks in this pic!
 Happy Holidays All!


----------



## joehalo

Just picked up this SX-838 for cheap. Love the black face and blue lights. This thing is soooo warm and smooth. The bass is unreal. It has a very different sound than my SX-950. Build quality is amazing as well. I'm thinking I want an SX-1010 now


----------



## calipilot227

musicman59 said:


> Holly cow Rob! That receiver at the top is a total monster!
> Happy Thanksgiving!


 
  
 The SX-1980 has a way of drawing your eye to it wherever it is in the frame.


----------



## LugBug1

calipilot227 said:


> The SX-1980 has a way of drawing your eye to it wherever it is in the frame.


 
 True. I'd have it were the TV is and just look at that  
  
 Happy thanksgiving to everyone here X


----------



## roadcykler

skylab said:


> I'm enjoying a little me time before the whole family shin-dig tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Outstanding setup you have there (but you already know that). Sorry about your guy Derrick Rose, again.


----------



## Oregonian

Happy Thanksgiving my fellow vintage fans.

To add to Robs theme, I offer two views, one upstairs and one in the family room preparing for the feast. Left my slippers on..........


----------



## LugBug1

Nice slippers


----------



## parbaked

oregonian said:


>


 
 hmmm....thankful for those nice folk who sold you the Spec rack!!


----------



## MattTCG

Time for the turkey sandwich. Wish I could try my new 1050. Will have to wait till Saturday.


----------



## LugBug1

^^ It'll be worth it! 
  
 Just sending a ch ching (from me glass of scotch.) from uk, coz we don't do what you doing now brother. Respect. 
  
 My Rotel is working out killer. Serious. 
  
 (drunk? Yes.)


----------



## Skylab

Great shots, Oregonian! That Spec rack...yummy


----------



## musicman59

oregonian said:


> Happy Thanksgiving my fellow vintage fans.
> 
> To add to Robs theme, I offer two views, one upstairs and one in the family room preparing for the feast. Left my slippers on..........


 
 Nice rack on the right! he he he


----------



## LugBug1

lugbug1 said:


> ^^ It'll be worth it!
> 
> Just sending a ch ching (from me glass of scotch.) from uk, coz we don't do what you doing now brother. Respect.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow... great post. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (I wish I could remember writing it.... Now that is worrying.. Ouch my head.. Still managed good punctuality as well!)
  
 Got told I was being made redundant yesterday... The company is sending my job to another country. Thats why I got so drunk.. Still things could be worse. I'll just have to get a better one! Then I'll be able to afford a some serious vintage. 
  
 Oregonian, your spec rack looks the bees knees bud! Jealous


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Wow... great post.   (I wish I could remember writing it.... Now that is worrying.. Ouch my head.. Still managed good punctuality as well!)
> 
> Got told I was being made redundant yesterday... The company is sending my job to another country. Thats why I got so drunk.. Still things could be worse. I'll just have to get a better one! Then I'll be able to afford a some serious vintage.
> 
> Oregonian, your spec rack looks the bees knees bud! Jealous




Dude, sorry to hear that news. Job security today is not the same as it used to be. :mad:


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Dude, sorry to hear that news. Job security today is not the same as it used to be.


 
  
 Ya - waiting for my turn - everyone around me has been replaced with offshore.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Picked this up for $150 on Wednesday.  Bench tests at 46 wpc and not a scratch on it - absolutely mint!  Got this in the hope that it would sound better than the first 2230 I had - no such luck - raspy mids and sizzle-y highs.  Very disappointing - especially when I hear so many comments on AK about this being a favorite of the 22xx series.  Oh well - won't have any trouble getting my money back (and then some).


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> I'm enjoying a little me time before the whole family shin-dig tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Great contributions from Skylab; Oregonian. I was wondering what the article pictured in the lower right was - imported media from Japan?




  
  
  


oregonian said:


> Happy Thanksgiving my fellow vintage fans.
> 
> To add to Robs theme, I offer two views, one upstairs and one in the family room preparing for the feast. Left my slippers on..........


 
  
  
  
  
 Upfront: I am tired. But I feel good. Prior to getting stuffed on Salmon and Sweet Potatoes yesterday, I enjoyed a 50 mile bike ride along the Pacific Ocean. I'd argue that I'm not tired from the ride but rather from dinner. Food & drink can be very taxing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Still sleepy, I pointed my browser to head-fi and headed straight to this thread. Upon seeing your beautiful stove and your beautiful Spec rack, I immediately thought of:
  




  
 Perhaps, it's their grand stature...


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Dude, sorry to hear that news. Job security today is not the same as it used to be.


 
 Thanks bud 
  


speakerbox said:


> Ya - waiting for my turn - everyone around me has been replaced with offshore.


 
 Yeah it sucks bud. 
  
 Shame about the Marantz.  it looks gorgeous anyhow! I think the only Marantz I would buy these days would be very late 70's. The sound of the older one that I've got sounds very unrefined compared to Sansui/Pioneer from the same time.


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


>


 
  





 _With you in spirit_


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> _With you in spirit_


 
 You're a good man SO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 At the end of the day its only a job... And nothing lasts for ever. 
  
 Apart from Vintage Steel !!


----------



## sidrpm

lugbug1 said:


> You're a good man SO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well said and totally true.
  
 Here's wishing you luck finding a new one.


----------



## SpeakerBox

sidrpm said:


> Well said and totally true.
> 
> Here's wishing you luck finding a new one.


 
  
 The same!


----------



## LugBug1

Cheers guys much appreciated. You're all goodins! 
  
 Back to the normal schedule  
  
 Heres a pic of my new Rotel RA 820XB. Such a great headphone amplifier, I'd highly recommend it and it sounds much better than my 70's Rotel. This is one company it seems that improved in the eighties.


----------



## sidrpm

lugbug1 said:


> Cheers guys much appreciated. You're all goodins!
> 
> Back to the normal schedule
> 
> Heres a pic of my new Rotel RA 820XB. Such a great headphone amplifier, I'd highly recommend it and it sounds much better than my 70's Rotel. This is one company it seems that improved in the eighties.


 
 Yup. 
  
 Am currently seriously considering a turntable by Rotel - just came up for sale locally.


----------



## SpeakerBox

sidrpm said:


> Yup.
> 
> Am currently seriously considering a turntable by Rotel - just came up for sale locally.


 
  
 Had an eighties Rotel CD player that was absolutely awesome.  My son has it now.  Always liked Rotel.


----------



## calipilot227

speakerbox said:


> Picked this up for $150 on Wednesday.  Bench tests at 46 wpc and not a scratch on it - absolutely mint!  Got this in the hope that it would sound better than the first 2230 I had - no such luck - raspy mids and sizzle-y highs.  Very disappointing - especially when I hear so many comments on AK about this being a favorite of the 22xx series.  Oh well - won't have any trouble getting my money back (and then some).


 
  
 DeOxit, followed by a recap? I've never heard a harsh Marantz before, I actually own a 2230 as of today, need to re-lamp before I can post pics. It sounds good, the noise floor is a little high, but I got it cheap enough that I'll probably try my hand at a recap. The sound is pretty smooth as-is though, even through my notoriously bright Mach Ones.


----------



## RUMAY408

The Fisher 100T Tuner/Preamp era 1960 all stock and sounds amazing. I'm primarily using this as a phono preamp.  ^^Nice Marantz and a very nice purchase price.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I tried Deoxit and Recap on the first one - this one is very clean and does not need Deoxit - just a few bulbs out.  I think I just don't like the sound of the 2230.  I did have a 2220B at one point and it sounded much better than either 2230.


----------



## sidrpm

sidrpm said:


> Yup.
> 
> Am currently seriously considering a turntable by Rotel - just came up for sale locally.


 
 Sadly the Rotel's gone.
  
 Quest to look for a Technics or Yamaha turntable continues....


----------



## MattTCG

I feel very very fortunate that my passion for vintage is for these old receivers and not for cars or motorcycles and such. I have finally gotten to spend a little time with the restored sx1050. It's just wonderful. It did sound quite good before but is now appreciable better. So clean, dynamic and effortlessly powerful. Wonderful with everything from the hd650 all the way to the hd800, although there is a very slight hiss. Rocking one my favorite indie pop songs right now, Float On: Modest Mouse. The 1050 is pushing this song out with authority and grace that I have not heard from any amp...ever. 
  
 Off topic ...War Damn Eagle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> Off topic ...War Damn Eagle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
 From someone with no skin in the game: that was VINTAGE!


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> I feel very very fortunate that my passion for vintage is for these old receivers and not for cars or motorcycles and such. I have finally gotten to spend a little time with the restored sx1050. It's just wonderful. It did sound quite good before but is now appreciable better. So clean, dynamic and effortlessly powerful. Wonderful with everything from the hd650 all the way to the hd800, although there is a very slight hiss. Rocking one my favorite indie pop songs right now, Float On: Modest Mouse. The 1050 is pushing this song out with authority and grace that I have not heard from any amp...ever.
> 
> Off topic ...War Damn Eagle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But what I really wanna know is... what does she think? I'm almost certain you'll want her to share in your joy. Though, to a lesser degree than your chums here.


----------



## calipilot227

I think I'm going to try my hand at recapping my 2230. Anyone had experience with an ebay recap kit? I was looking into this one, price seems reasonable.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745813558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Matt on getting the restored 1050 back. Nice impressions as well. Rummy I'm really digging the fisher preamp/tuner. Nice!!


----------



## shadow419

I've dipped my toes in the vintage receiver pool, and I'm happy to say I'm impressed even with a low end model. I picked up a Pioneer Sx- 434 for peanuts at a flea market, and after an amp board recap plus a transistor swap for a noisy channel I'm hooked. I'm thoroughly impressed with the sound to say the least.


----------



## MattTCG

There is just something about the old steel that sparks my passion. After trying most of the different brands, I know that the Pioneers do it for me. I just can't walk by one without my radar going off. It must be something about the hunt, affordability, the fact that they need TLC (which I enjoy) and how beautiful they sound with hp's (especially planar magnetic) that just gets my juices flowing. 
  
 I love coming home with one, giving it a quick audition and then taking it completely apart for the deoxit treatment and cleaning. I'll clean the inside with a little compressed air first, then a damp rag and soft toothbrush. Then I'll pull off the front face and get to work on it...cleaning both sides of the glass. Occasionally that glass will need to be replaced which is easy to get a new piece cut. Every knob and switch gets soaked and then hand polished. Then I take Mr. Erasure to the front and back face to remove the decades of dirt and stain. 
  
 Then I'll work on the wood cabinet. Most of the ones in good condition will come back nicely with Howard Restore and Feed and Wax (also works well with veneer speakers btw). Occasionally some will need a light sanding with new stain. On a rare occasion I'll completely rebuild the cabinet with a nice hardwood. This takes a lot of time since I have to work from  my uncles to do the project (I don't have the tools). 
  
 Then occasionally if needed I'll refurbish the top black grate. Often they just need to be cleaned. But then some will need to be sand blasted and repainted (back to my uncles for the sand blast projects). 
  
 The look and sound of the old Pioneers just hits the sweet spot for me. Maybe it's because I owned an sx650 as a teenager and that's where my real love affair with music started and the Pioneers started. 
  
 The only vintage piece on my radar that would knock me off the 1050 and 1280 that I have now is the fisher 500c. I was an inch away from owning one about six months ago but the deal fell through. Now I have another on the hook. We'll see how that one turns out.


----------



## Skylab

Wow I certainly understand that feeling!!! That's cool about your restored 1050, as well. The SX x50 and x80 Pioneer receivers sound especially awesome when restored


----------



## MattTCG

At some point, I'll venture into better speakers which will take full advantage of the Pioneers that I own. Right now it's my restored large Advents. I did the refinish on the cabinets and had a professional refoam and replace the voice coils. But I do have some nicer vintage speakers on my "seek and recover" list. One day...


----------



## SpeakerBox

calipilot227 said:


> I think I'm going to try my hand at recapping my 2230. Anyone had experience with an ebay recap kit? I was looking into this one, price seems reasonable.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745813558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


 
  
 IMHO those kits are not worth the money.  I buy quality parts from Digikey instead, which may cost more money overall but will be better parts (e.g. Nichicon gold tunes)  They have the parts lists available on AK for the 2230.  That said a full recap of my previous 2230 did not yield the results I was looking for.  It sounded better - but not good enough for me so I sold it.


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> The look and sound of the old Pioneers just hits the sweet spot for me.


 
 Me too!


----------



## Rossliew

moodyrn said:


> Stage 1 of clean up and maintainance is now complete. She's beginning to look like she should!


 
 WOW! Looks amazing post clean up ! Did you have to remove any of the parts/panels to clean those wires, etc?


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> That sucks, sorry it keeps failing you. I had to bring my Spec 2 back and forth three times, and I only am 20 minutes away. Can't imagine being 2 hours away, I'd be kind of pissed. Have you called him yet? He does stand behind his work, I'll give him that.


 
 eh... it's the transistor, when it's cold the left channel goes out and when its warmed up room temp its back to normal beautiful sound. I'm gonna eventually take electronics classes at the CC and learn to fix them myself and open a business fixing them  

 I don't even know what transistors are compatible and the best ones. I suppose eventually I should make an Audio-Karma account and ask there. I want to re-cap the whole thing but I don't even have the proper tools. I did find an oscilloscope at an junk antique store yesterday in Klamath Falls though, didn't get it don't really know anything about it but it was neat to see one for once!


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> eh... it's the transistor, when it's cold the left channel goes out and when its warmed up room temp its back to normal beautiful sound. I'm gonna eventually take electronics classes at the CC and learn to fix them myself and open a business fixing them
> 
> I don't even know what transistors are compatible and the best ones. I suppose eventually I should make an Audio-Karma account and ask there. I want to re-cap the whole thing but I don't even have the proper tools. I did find an oscilloscope at an junk antique store yesterday in Klamath Falls though, didn't get it don't really know anything about it but it was neat to see one for once!


 
  
 You could consider getting for parts unit and transfer a transistor over to your working one.  Also - Sunking on Ebay sometimes has good deals on test equipment.  I got a fully working Tektronix scope for $44 shipped from them!  Used it just this weekend to track down a bad capacitor.  You just have to be patient and wait for the deals.


----------



## PhoenixG

Christmas seems to be the entire month of December for me so far. I have had a number of dream pieces come up locally recently. I found (but didn't get) a SX-1010 and a set of JBL l100's, I also found (and got!) another pair of McIntosh XR-16 speakers. I have a pair already and absolutely love them. Then I stumbled upon this guy, also locally! Welcome to the family!
  

 I was allowed to bring both of them home thanks to the lovely Mrs. She doesn't know I have one more receiver in the mail haha. It definitely needs a deoxit treatment, as the preamp controls are a bit static-y. After I get the G-9000DB cleaned up, I'll do a direct side by side A-B comparison to the 1980 on the two pairs of McIntosh XR-16 speakers to see which one gets to stay in the living room. Here's some more photos of the haul, with the 1980 sulking in the background again. I don't know what it's worried about.


----------



## Skylab

Wow, that's another beautiful monster!!!! Congrats.


----------



## AudioDoctor

calipilot227 said:


> I think I'm going to try my hand at recapping my 2230. Anyone had experience with an ebay recap kit? I was looking into this one, price seems reasonable.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/350745813558?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


 
 Don't bother with that kit.  I am in the process of recapping my 2230 at the moment with all audio caps.  Check my thread over on AK for a complete list, plus some updates to the list.
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=559134
  
 I am using, at a minimum Elna Silmic 2 caps, and still looking for the output coupling caps I want to use.  I would stay away from any kits...


----------



## Trav

After A/B my Sansui 881 and the Sony STR 6065, the 6065 is indeed clear and concise. But in a comparison to my 881, the bass with the 6065 is slightly less controlled and to my surprise the Sansui's power is much greater in a direct comparison. The 6065 is a keeper but on a different level than the 881....perhaps the 6065 has shown me just how much a GEM the 881 is.


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> Christmas seems to be the entire month of December for me so far. I have had a number of dream pieces come up locally recently. I found (but didn't get) a SX-1010 and a set of JBL l100's, I also found (and got!) another pair of McIntosh XR-16 speakers. I have a pair already and absolutely love them. Then I stumbled upon this guy, also locally! Welcome to the family!


 
  
 Congrats! You must be some kind of negotiator..._ 'neaked_ both the kit AND the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 kaboodle into the home.


----------



## calipilot227

audiodoctor said:


> Don't bother with that kit.  I am in the process of recapping my 2230 at the moment with all audio caps.  Check my thread over on AK for a complete list, plus some updates to the list.
> 
> http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=559134
> 
> I am using, at a minimum Elna Silmic 2 caps, and still looking for the output coupling caps I want to use.  I would stay away from any kits...


 
  
 Gotcha. I actually ordered some caps from Digikey, I'm going to start with the power supply and work from there. I'll PM you the caps I ordered.


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> Christmas seems to be the entire month of December for me so far. I have had a number of dream pieces come up locally recently. I found (but didn't get) a SX-1010 and a set of JBL l100's, I also found (and got!) another pair of McIntosh XR-16 speakers. I have a pair already and absolutely love them. Then I stumbled upon this guy, also locally! Welcome to the family!
> 
> 
> I was allowed to bring both of them home thanks to the lovely Mrs. She doesn't know I have one more receiver in the mail haha. It definitely needs a deoxit treatment, as the preamp controls are a bit static-y. After I get the G-9000DB cleaned up, I'll do a direct side by side A-B comparison to the 1980 on the two pairs of McIntosh XR-16 speakers to see which one gets to stay in the living room. Here's some more photos of the haul, with the 1980 sulking in the background again. I don't know what it's worried about.


 
 Gorgeous! 
  


trav said:


> After A/B my Sansui 881 and the Sony STR 6065, the 6065 is indeed clear and concise. But in a comparison to my 881, the bass with the 6065 is slightly less controlled and to my surprise the Sansui's power is much greater in a direct comparison. The 6065 is a keeper but on a different level than the 881....perhaps the 6065 has shown me just how much a GEM the 881 is.


 
 Team Sansui!!! You could get 2 and a half 881's for the price of one 6065 round my neck of the woods.... Just goes to show! I wouldn't trade my 551 for anything (well... with in reason  It's that seductive mid-70's Sansui sound. Unbeatable! Tel ye!


----------



## PhoenixG

Trav - You're probably right about the bass difference and power difference between the Sony and the Sansui. The Sansui is rated 63 W RMS while the Sony only has 50. The sony also will usually run about $100+/-20 to the sansui's range of $80-250. I found the bass from the 6065 to be very controlled through my McIntosh speakers, and really fantastic to listen to. I also like how it is overbuilt to the point where I could not make it clip. Everyone has their own ear, of course, but for me the 6065 is still my best value receiver out there. I maaaaay have it's big brother the 6120 in the mail soon, so we'll see if stepping up to $150 on a sony will cause me to weep at the sound quality. Looking at other reviews out there that do compare them, I'm thinking I will have a new "best-value" king and maybe even a new "best under $1K king."
 Of course, they'll also get compared to the new 9000DB and the SX-1980 just to keep everyone modest. I'll keep everyone posted and I am VERY excited to make an audio day out of it.


----------



## Argybargy

Pioneer SX-1250 Re-Cap and Restoration
  
  

  
  
 So now I know what all the fuss is about with these beastly Pioneers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  

  
  
 I bought this 1250 as an As-Is/Non-Working unit.  It was in very good cosmetic condition, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.  There was a water stain on the wood case and also a residue on the bottom plate.  It looks like someone spilled a cup of hot chocolate or orange juice right into one of the amp boards.
 Surprisingly  all of the fuses were intact, so I turned it on with a dim bulb tester and when there was no short indicated, fired it up.  The lamps lit up, the relay clicked and I had music, but in one channel only.
  
  

  
  
  
 I used MarktheFixer's BOM from August 2013 with a couple adjustments per Echowar's recommendation.  About 213 components were replaced and the work took about 40 hours.
 Two boards were problematic.  About a third of the solder foils on the relay board partially disintegrated upon de-soldering.  I had to improvise by exposing copper traces or extending leads to nearby solder pads.  70% of the solder joints in the stabilizer board were bad (not surprising considering how hot the right side gets).  All of the solder joints were either replaced or re-flowed.  This took some time since I examined each joint at least 5 times at different angles with a 4x loupe.
 The other boards were easy to work with and as everyone notices, the build quality is absolutely top notch.
  
  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  
  
 Not included in the 40 hours of work time was 5 hours spent troubleshooting a ground-related hum.  I looked for shorts in ground wires, soldered sketchy looking wire-wrapped pins, and sanded oxidation from ground-chassis connections.  Nothing worked... until I changed the source.  Bingo!  It was the DAC.
  
 The work is not finished however, there is a mild hiss in the pre-amp.  When the tone defeat switch is engaged the background is dead quiet.  I suspect there are a few bad resistors.  I measured some and quite a few were out of spec, but it's hard to know for sure unless the resistor is removed from the circuit.  So, I will replace all of the carbon film resistors in the two main pre-amp boards with 1% metal films and also upgrade the film caps.  The BOM was also short 2 transistors and 1 electrolytic which will have to be replaced.  A heatsink will also be added to the regulators on the stabilizer board, an Echowars recommendation.
  
 I bought the unit for $250 + $95 shipping and parts were $270, so my cost so far is $615.
  
 So how does it sound?
 Well, I had my HE-4 listed for sale, but after I took a short listen, I ended the listing.  I think it was Matt who said in a previous post that the HE-4 only came alive after it was hooked up to some massive raw power.  I'd agree completely.  It sounds so much better than out of the Marantz 2270 (HPO).
 Slightly warm, detailed, big soundstage and seemingly unlimited power on tap
  
 So far the only negative is that my back hurt for 2 days after carrying it from my office to the living room


----------



## PhoenixG

Wow! What a tremendous amount of work! Were you able to get a list of parts in advance, or did you have to take it apart first/read the specs?


----------



## Argybargy

AudioKarma has a number of parts lists (BOMs) and gurus expert in Pioneer restoration.  It's important to look for the updated BOMs and search AK using google not their search function.


----------



## Skylab

That is truly awesome!


----------



## Argybargy

skylab said:


> That is truly awesome!


 
 Thanks!  Now I have a hankering to try out a 1980, BUT I have a new rule, no vintage iron that I can't actually carry


----------



## shadow419

After getting my SX-434 sounding like it should, I want even more power. Even though the 434 has a slightly warm sound, I'm ready to explore the bigger offerings in vintage receivers


----------



## Arsis

Is anyone using speaker outputs (with attenuation of course) for headphones? I have a pair of vintage distribution boxes from a recording studio (similar to Furman HR-2) for using something like a 50 watt amp to run several sets of cans. Anybody doing anything like this? If so whats your setup?


----------



## PhoenixG

argybargy said:


> Thanks!  Now I have a hankering to try out a 1980, BUT I have a new rule, no vintage iron that I can't actually carry


 
 Hey, if you're serious, send me a PM. I'd let you do mine and pay a fair price.


----------



## Silent One

arsis said:


> Is anyone using speaker outputs (with attenuation of course) for headphones? I have a pair of vintage distribution boxes from a recording studio (similar to Furman HR-2) for using something like a 50 watt amp to run several sets of cans. Anybody doing anything like this? If so whats your setup?


 
  
 Currently running my HiFiMAN HE-6 naked with the speaker taps on Sansui G-22000, no attenuation, save the volume control. _But I am careful... _
  
 HE-6 > 4-pin xlr adapter > bare Silver soldered tips > speaker taps


----------



## MattTCG

@Argybargy 
  
 That 1250 looks wonderful!! It was me that carried on and on about the he-4 and the vintage Pioneers. I'm happy that you were able to hear them together and appreciate the pairing. You haven't heard the he-4 till you've plugged it into a Pioneer IMO. It's crazy good stuff.


----------



## Argybargy

matttcg said:


> @Argybargy
> 
> 
> That 1250 looks wonderful!! It was me that carried on and on about the he-4 and the vintage Pioneers. I'm happy that you were able to hear them together and appreciate the pairing. You haven't heard the he-4 till you've plugged it into a Pioneer IMO. It's crazy good stuff.





Thanks, it was a fun project and the first Pioneer I've worked on.
I'm listening to the combo right now and the muddines, congestion and harsh treble that I heard out of a 50wpc receiver are totally gone, replaced by a big soundstage and a big grin on my face.


----------



## Argybargy

phoenixg said:


> Hey, if you're serious, send me a PM. I'd let you do mine and pay a fair price.




Sorry I meant actually owning and restoring my very own 1980. Took some muscle to hoist, twist, slide the 1250, I think I'd need to hit the gym for six months before even tackling a 1980


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I had to do a full month of weight training to work up to wearing the lcd2.


----------



## PhoenixG

argybargy said:


> Sorry I meant actually owning and restoring my very own 1980. Took some muscle to hoist, twist, slide the 1250, I think I'd need to hit the gym for six months before even tackling a 1980


 
 Worth a shot haha!


----------



## Argybargy

phoenixg said:


> Worth a shot haha!




Just practice on 2-3 thriftstore finds first before tackling a nice receiver. It's not that difficult and the folks at AK are very knowledgeable and helpful.


----------



## Trav

phoenixg said:


> Trav - You're probably right about the bass difference and power difference between the Sony and the Sansui. The Sansui is rated 63 W RMS while the Sony only has 50. The sony also will usually run about $100+/-20 to the sansui's range of $80-250. I found the bass from the 6065 to be very controlled through my McIntosh speakers, and really fantastic to listen to. I also like how it is overbuilt to the point where I could not make it clip. Everyone has their own ear, of course, but for me the 6065 is still my best value receiver out there. I maaaaay have it's big brother the 6120 in the mail soon, so we'll see if stepping up to $150 on a sony will cause me to weep at the sound quality. Looking at other reviews out there that do compare them, I'm thinking I will have a new "best-value" king and maybe even a new "best under $1K king."
> Of course, they'll also get compared to the new 9000DB and the SX-1980 just to keep everyone modest. I'll keep everyone posted and I am VERY excited to make an audio day out of it.


OMG you found a 6120! Please let me know your thoughts. I should premise my findings with the 6065. I was basing my findings with speakers, not hp. When I'm home now I'm almost exclusively using speakers. MattTCG hooked me up with a surreal collection of high res audio that when possible I just sit back revel in the sound. The 6065 is here to stay, serving duty in the LR with the HPM 100's.


----------



## PhoenixG

OK, when you say that you're using the hpm-100's, I understand your comments completely on the bass. I had a pair of those, but they didn't make the cut largely because of how sloppy/warm the bass was compared to other speakers I have. Don't get me wrong, they are still pleasant to listen to and smooth at high volumes, but nonetheless very colored in tone. Regarding the str-6120, I hope to have a deal closed on it by the end of the week. I've located it and agreed on a price, but shipping is the elephant in the room. Fingers crossed, eh?


----------



## Trav

phoenixg said:


> OK, when you say that you're using the hpm-100's, I understand your comments completely on the bass. I had a pair of those, but they didn't make the cut largely because of how sloppy/warm the bass was compared to other speakers I have. Don't get me wrong, they are still pleasant to listen to and smooth at high volumes, but nonetheless very colored in tone. Regarding the str-6120, I hope to have a deal closed on it by the end of the week. I've located it and agreed on a price, but shipping is the elephant in the room. Fingers crossed, eh?


I wish you Godspeed. I paired the 6065 with my Dynaco A25 and my NHT Superzero for my comparison in my bedroom system. I paired it with the HPM after and found it a synergistic match.


----------



## moodyrn

rossliew said:


> WOW! Looks amazing post clean up ! Did you have to remove any of the parts/panels to clean those wires, etc?




Thanks. I didn't remove anything, just a lot of foam paint brushes lol.


Wow go away for a few days and Santa decides to come early for a slew of people lol.



phoenixg said:


> Christmas seems to be the entire month of December for me so far. I have had a number of dream pieces come up locally recently. I found (but didn't get) a SX-1010 and a set of JBL l100's, I also found (and got!) another pair of McIntosh XR-16 speakers. I have a pair already and absolutely love them. Then I stumbled upon this guy, also locally! Welcome to the family!
> 
> 
> I was allowed to bring both of them home thanks to the lovely Mrs. She doesn't know I have one more receiver in the mail haha. It definitely needs a deoxit treatment, as the preamp controls are a bit static-y. After I get the G-9000DB cleaned up, I'll do a direct side by side A-B comparison to the 1980 on the two pairs of McIntosh XR-16 speakers to see which one gets to stay in the living room. Here's some more photos of the haul, with the 1980 sulking in the background again. I don't know what it's worried about.




Welcome to the "big G club" looks great!!




argybargy said:


> Pioneer SX-1250 Re-Cap and Restoration
> 
> So now I know what all the fuss is about with these beastly Pioneers
> 
> ...





Great work! That's stunning!


Congrats Trav on the Sony, but we've already talked.


----------



## moodyrn

Oh and Phoenix, I'm using my g901db(European version of g9000db) with my xr7; wonderful match. I think you
will love it with the xr16.


----------



## Argybargy

Thanks!
The foam paint brushes is a great idea. I've been mostly using q-tips with isopropyl alcohol.
What cleaner do you use?
I'm finding IPA leaves a residue on some surfaces.


----------



## moodyrn

I use to use the alcohol, but like you I found it can leave a residue. I now use, don't laugh, but professor amos lol. His stuff, though over hyped and don't perform the miracles you see on tv, do have 1000 uses. It's also mild and the best all around cleaner I've come by. I even use it to remove old thermal past from cpus, heatsink etc. And it does a much better job than alcohol or the expensive dedicated thermal paste removals I've used in the past.I


----------



## Argybargy

Funny, I'll give it a try.


----------



## MattTCG

moodyrn said:


> I use to use the alcohol, but like you I found it can leave a residue. I now use, don't laugh, but professor amos lol. His stuff, though over hyped and don't perform the miracles you see on tv, do have 1000 uses. It's also mild and the best all around cleaner I've come by. I even use it to remove old thermal past from cpus, heatsink etc. And it does a much better job than alcohol or the expensive dedicated thermal paste removals I've used in the past.I


 
  
 Great tip Moody. I've been using the foam brushes for a while but didn't know about that cleaner. 
  
 Are we talking about this:
  
http://www.amazon.com/Professor-Amos-Shock-Extreme/dp/B00GUNIUH6/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1386246878&sr=8-13&keywords=professor+amos


----------



## SpeakerBox

argybargy said:


> Thanks!
> The foam paint brushes is a great idea. I've been mostly using q-tips with isopropyl alcohol.
> What cleaner do you use?
> I'm finding IPA leaves a residue on some surfaces.


 
  
 I use foam brushes too - but with denatured alcohol.  If it leaves a residue, I don't see it.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Oh and Phoenix, I'm using my g901db(European version of g9000db) with my xr7; wonderful match. I think you
> will love it with the xr16.


 
 I'm thinking I might also. Here's my A-B rig I set up last night. I will be pulling the G-9000 apart tonight for a good cleaning if the ups guy gets here at a reasonable time. Yes, that's top chef. And a cat who only likes to sit on my favorite things haha.


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> Great tip Moody. I've been using the foam brushes for a while but didn't know about that cleaner.
> 
> Are we talking about this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Professor-Amos-Shock-Extreme/dp/B00GUNIUH6/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1386246878&sr=8-13&keywords=professor+amos


 
 hmmm....melon scented....


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> Great tip Moody. I've been using the foam brushes for a while but didn't know about that cleaner.
> 
> Are we talking about this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Professor-Amos-Shock-Extreme/dp/B00GUNIUH6/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1386246878&sr=8-13&keywords=professor+amos




Yep, that's the one.


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> I use foam brushes too - but with denatured alcohol.  If it leaves a residue, I don't see it.




I've used that alcohol too, and for many jobs, it works great. But when it comes to stuff that has many years of crud built up, it leaves stuff behind. I would always have to clean multiple times to get everything. But we all have our special methods, there no right or wrong way as long as the job gets done.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I will have to look into the shock stuff Matt listed.  May be a worthy experiment.


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> I'm thinking I might also. Here's my A-B rig I set up last night. I will be pulling the G-9000 apart tonight for a good cleaning if the ups guy gets here at a reasonable time. Yes, that's top chef. And a cat who only likes to sit on my favorite things haha.


 
 Beauty and the beasts! (socks!) 
  
 But seriously, I bet there is some power coming from those speakers! Has it blown your clothes off


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> I'm thinking I might also. Here's my A-B rig I set up last night. I will be pulling the G-9000 apart tonight for a good cleaning if the ups guy gets here at a reasonable time. Yes, that's top chef. And a cat who only likes to sit on my favorite things haha.


 

 Good pic.....................a continuation of Skylab and my pics from Thanksgiving.  Love the vintage iron stacked!  What are those two?  One is a Sansui...............the other?


----------



## MattTCG

Looks like a sx1980.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah the big Sansui and Pioneer right next to each other is so cool


----------



## PhoenixG

The sansui makes the 1980 look small doesn't it? It's an illusion. The walnut side trim on the 1980 makes the aluminum face smaller, so it looks smaller. But the 1980 has about 1cm more in every dimension and almost 10kg in extra weight. ( started in metric, stayed metric. tough)


----------



## PhoenixG

Just waiting on UPS to deliver some deoxit...
 Here's how the sausage is made haha.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> Yeah the big Sansui and Pioneer right next to each other is so cool


 

 Battle of the heavyweights.....................


----------



## parbaked

phoenixg said:


>


----------



## MattTCG

^^ You guys are just shameful!! But quite funny. I saw a couple interesting thing today that I'll post shortly.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## MattTCG

Having trouble uploading from my phone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I saw a Mac 2105, Pioneer sa-9800, and a Sansui sa-9800. Pics coming.


----------



## parbaked

Which 9800??
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  

  or
  

  
  
 Gotta choose between those sick Spec-like handles or fluorescent meters


----------



## MattTCG

Bottom one for sure...


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> ^^ You guys are just shameful!! But quite funny. I saw a couple interesting thing today that I'll post shortly.


----------



## PhoenixG

Job is done on the G-9000DB. Clean as new. I thought you all would appreciate this.


----------



## sidrpm

parbaked said:


> Which 9800??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Both look incredible. I prefer the bottom one (meters!)


----------



## PhoenixG

After getting the Sansui G-9000db back together, I was able to get in a quick listening session comparing it to the sx-1980. I had them both hooked up to their own pairs of McIntosh XR-16 speakers and got the Mrs. to switch them back and forth while I had my eyes closed. She agreed to occasionally not actually switch them just to make sure I wasn't biasing myself. My initial impression is that the sansui is slightly warmer, with a more enveloping bass but very sweet mids. It is very pleasant to listen to and it was a great match with the McIntosh speakers, which are dead neutral down to about 50 Hz. Both have great highs. The sansui g-9000 is very much in the same league as the sx-1980. I had to replay sequences and listen very carefully to get the best sense of the differences. I even switched speaker pairs to control for slight sonic differences that I was able to notice between "identical" pairs.
  
 As best as I can tell, both amps are VERY good. The sx-1980 is slightly more composed in the bass region, giving ever so slightly more exact replication of low frequencies (i.e. bass drum hits, low bass instrumentals). The sansui had a beautiful and sweet mid range, but it was slightly mid-forward. In terms of overall clarity, it was a dead heat. They both have a "loudness" function that drastically changes the output of the amp. The pioneer loudness feature is more subtle, mostly boosting the low bass and mid bass. The sansui's seems to boost the noise floor (and background details), as well as the low and mid bass. Just interesting, not sure if I preferred one loudness to the other. They both were as good as the source and speakers they were hooked up to. If I didn't already have the sx-1980, I think the G-9000 would make a good end-state rig. I think it would pair well with McIntosh speakers, the pioneer S- series, or maybe yamaha's. I might be too warm with old JBL L-series or lower pioneer HPM series. Unsurprisingly, it would probably sound great with a nice pair of sansui's, though they are hit or miss and change sonically a lot with model number even in the same series. If you think a pair of HP sounds great on big pioneers, it might be worth a shot on this sansui. The slight warmth and sweetness might make it even less fatiguing than a big pioneer.
  
 From a non-sonic sound point, the G-9000 is very pretty and well built. I think the transformer and capacitors together weigh in around 30 lbs. I don't know what it is about blue tuner dials, but I just love them. The sx-1980 is built even better though (about 15 lbs better, just saying). Future maintenance wise, I think it would be impossible to get new ovoid filter caps on the G-9000. The 1980 also has unobtanium parts. Hard to say which is rarer-unobtanium.


----------



## LugBug1

Nice impressions Phoenix^^
  
 Continuing my exploration into the 'better' eighties amps. I've just got a QED integrate. Yes QED who make cables. I'd read that they made some very good amps for a while in the late eighties for the money. They actually won an award for their last one. I have their first one. The A230S (1985?). British made and aimed at the 'purest' audiophile, nothing is inside that shouldn't be and arguably some things that should.. like output fuses. It's got a high end toroidal transformer (same as Naim) and other stuff that I can't remember as I haven't looked inside yet   Anyways, I've read that they have an exceptional headphone stage. Yes they do, as long as your headphones aren't too sensitive. Because I doubt there are any resistors in the way as well! 
 Plugging my (not sensitive at all) K701 in, and I'm happy to report the most lovely and yet focused sound I've probably heard with them yet. Wonderful. It's almost like I can hear my old Black Box dac breath!  My HD800's (with the volume right down from my pc) again sound terrific. But unfortunately its just too loud for them. I can't live with myself thinking of imbalances and data loss at this kind of low volume. Luckily my second fave hp's are the K701's. And lucky headphones they are, having such a pure signal feeding em. 
  

  
   Don't worry guys I'm not going any later than the eighties. It's only because I'm a sole headphone user (until my son stops destroying everything in his path) and speakers are a no no for me at the mo. The hp outs on some of these 80's amps are very good! Still pre opamp days ha.


----------



## moodyrn

Great impressions Phoenix. Based on my memory of the sx1280, your impressions is spot on with how I feel about them both. I feel the g901/9000db hits the sweet spot between technicalities and musicality. I also look the blue dial lol. Since mine is the g901, I get the rosewood and gunmetal finish as a bonus . But the big G is a very fun sounding receiver that's also pretty accurate as well.

Oh and in my research of the big oval caps, they are dual capacitors and are replaceable. What many have done is boiled out the electro stuff and reused the shells stuffed with two capacitors each for a total of eight caps. With a fresh coat of paint for the body, you can't tell anything has ever been done to them. I'm not really interested yet, since mine are still well with in spec, but it's nice to know if I ever need to, I can replace them.


----------



## LugBug1

Ok now I'm gonna go a bit hyperbole.. Doesn't happen very often. But I'm hearing things in my fave tracks that I've not heard before and the soundstage has increased an extra cm. 
  
 Moody and Rob. My dear friends of vintage, I deplore you not to try one of these QED amps for your HE6's if you can. I feel the need to tell you this and in fact I bet my own bottom that you would thank me dearly if you do. I'm sure they have the power +. But it's the smooth refinement and clarity! Yes clarity.. Cheap as chips too!


----------



## Skylab

You deplore us not to try it?


----------



## LugBug1

skylab said:


> You deplore us not to try it?


 
 Erm.. yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 means I feel very strong condemnation of you not trying it  
  
 TRY IT!!


----------



## moodyrn

lugbug1 said:


> Nice impressions Phoenix^^
> 
> Continuing my exploration into the 'better' eighties amps. I've just got a QED integrate. Yes QED who make cables. I'd read that they made some very good amps for a while in the late eighties for the money. They actually won an award for their last one. I have their first one. The A230S (1985?). British made and aimed at the 'purest' audiophile, nothing is inside that shouldn't be and arguably some things that should.. like output fuses. It's got a high end toroidal transformer (same as Naim) and other stuff that I can't remember as I haven't looked inside yet   Anyways, I've read that they have an exceptional headphone stage. Yes they do, as long as your headphones aren't too sensitive. Because I doubt there are any resistors in the way as well!
> Plugging my (not sensitive at all) K701 in, and I'm happy to report the most lovely and yet focused sound I've probably heard with them yet. Wonderful. It's almost like I can hear my old Black Box dac breath!  My HD800's (with the volume right down from my pc) again sound terrific. But unfortunately its just too loud for them. I can't live with myself thinking of imbalances and data loss at this kind of low volume. Luckily my second fave hp's are the K701's. And lucky headphones they are, having such a pure signal feeding em.
> ...


 
 Congrats, glad you are enjoying it. I've never heard of them, but the amp sounds interesting, and personal enjoyment is what it's all about.


----------



## shadow419

Missed out on a Kenwood 8010 that popped up on cl, but I'll find something soon I'm sure. Until then carry on


----------



## harrinj

Does anyone else here have a Kenwood KA-7100? Now is it just me or does the BASS and TREBLE knob do absolutely nothing?


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> Congrats, glad you are enjoying it. I've never heard of them, but the amp sounds interesting, and personal enjoyment is what it's all about.


 
 Thanks Moody. Heres a pic of the insides that I found on google for anyone who knows more than me about the schematics. There is no crackles or pops with switches so I'm in no hurry to open mine up. Plus it would mean not listening to it for a while 
  
 Hand made in Britain is a rare thing these days I can tell ye!
  

  
 Can anyone tell if there is a resistor in the headphone path? It's 30 watts per channel so I'm guessing there would have to be. Though maybe low resistance. There is a little warning on the back that says 'only use headphones of high Z' I'm assuming this must be high impedance?


----------



## MattTCG

harrinj said:


> Does anyone else here have a Kenwood KA-7100? Now is it just me or does the BASS and TREBLE knob do absolutely nothing?


 
  
 As long as the tone switch is engaged, it should work. If not you may have a problem with the board for those controls. Honestly I don't know much about the Kenwoods as I've only worked on the Pioneers.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Matt - did you ever post that picture of the 2105?  Just curious because it is one I am interested in.


----------



## PhoenixG

lugbug1 said:


> Thanks Moody. Heres a pic of the insides that I found on google for anyone who knows more than me about the schematics. There is no crackles or pops with switches so I'm in no hurry to open mine up. Plus it would mean not listening to it for a while
> 
> Hand made in Britain is a rare thing these days I can tell ye!
> 
> ...


 
 I don't see a resistor in there, but it probably has a small (4-8 ohm) resistor to protect the outputs from being shorted. "Z" is the electrical engineering variable assigned to complex impedance, so your guess is correct.


----------



## SpeakerBox

speakerbox said:


> Matt - did you ever post that picture of the 2105?  Just curious because it is one I am interested in.


 
  
 I guess not as I don't see one


----------



## MattTCG

Sorry, my phone is not cooperating on wireless uploads.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Is the 2105 yours?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I wish. It sits in a pawn shop near the Big Chicken Marietta GA. I tried to give $500 for it, but the guy wouldn't deal. He has a pair of Maggies also. None of the gear has been hooked up in years and just sits there waiting to be enjoyed.


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> ^^ I wish. It sits in a pawn shop near the Big Chicken Marietta GA. I tried to give $500 for it, but the guy wouldn't deal. He has a pair of Maggies also. None of the gear has been hooked up in years and just sits there waiting to be enjoyed.


 
  
 A little surprised he would not take $500.  One thing that has always intrigued me about this unit is that it has a HP jack.  Unusual for a power amp.


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> I don't see a resistor in there, but it probably has a small (4-8 ohm) resistor to protect the outputs from being shorted. "Z" is the electrical engineering variable assigned to complex impedance, so your guess is correct.


 
 Thanks Phoenix


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Does anyone else here have a Kenwood KA-7100? Now is it just me or does the BASS and TREBLE knob do absolutely nothing?




Not a 7100 but have two KA-5700's and the treble and bass pots definitely influence the sound.


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> As long as the tone switch is engaged, it should work. If not you may have a problem with the board for those controls. Honestly I don't know much about the Kenwoods as I've only worked on the Pioneers.


 
 To be picky, it is a "Tone Defeat" switch and it should NOT be engaged if you want the tone controls to work...
 Engaging Tone Defeat will bypass the tone control function and renders them 'flat' so nothing happens when you turn the knobs.
 The purpose is so that you can hear the difference that the tone control settings make on a playback by switching back and forth between 'flat' and 'equalized'.
 Yamaha was one of the first to come up with the marketing proposition (Pure Direct) that bypassing the tone controls was also more audiophile


----------



## shadow419

> Snip..
> Can anyone tell if there is a resistor in the headphone path? It's 30 watts per channel so I'm guessing there would have to be. Though maybe low resistance. There is a little warning on the back that says 'only use headphones of high Z' I'm assuming this must be high impedance?




A quick look at the schematic shows 0.22 ohm 2W resistors on the headphone out


----------



## LugBug1

shadow419 said:


> A quick look at the schematic shows 0.22 ohm 2W resistors on the headphone out


 
 Ah! Thank you my friend.


----------



## moodyrn

Matt I remember us discussing that mac a few months ago. So after all this time, he still refuses to budge? That's very surprising that he would rather let it sit up collecting dust instead of negotiating on the price.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ very true. Sometimes these wonderful pieces are trophies that end up being dust collectors instead of bringing real enjoyment from use.


----------



## Silent One

Me? I'd pick up some fixin's at the 'Big Chicken' to go and set it down on his counter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with a bottle of Bourbon..._ "Pardon me sir, busy?"_


----------



## sidrpm

It's not been a good morning here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One channel on my Pionner Quad QX9900 is now working intermittently.
  
 Does this imply simply a loose connection or something more serious? Anyone care to chime in?


----------



## calipilot227

Bu





sidrpm said:


> It's not been a good morning here. :blink:
> 
> One channel on my Pionner Quad QX9900 is now working intermittently.
> 
> Does this imply simply a loose connection or something more serious? Anyone care to chime in?




Buy some DeOxit, spray it into every control that the signal goes through (including loudness, mono, tone defeat, and tape monitor switches). That might fix it, if it doesn't, you might have a more serious problem.


----------



## sidrpm

calipilot227 said:


> Bu
> Buy some DeOxit, spray it into every control that the signal goes through (including loudness, mono, tone defeat, and tape monitor switches). That might fix it, if it doesn't, you might have a more serious problem.


 
 Cool, will try this asap and pray and cross fingers & toes.


----------



## LugBug1

sidrpm said:


> Cool, will try this asap and pray and cross fingers & toes.


 
 Don't be shy using it as well. Give them all a good squirt and work the controls and switches while you do it. Leave it for a while before you plug back in so that the excess evaporates.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Also be sure to take the time an effort to disassemble things necessary to actually get to the pots and switches. Spraying in the general direction of them or trying to spray from the front panel will not do the job.


----------



## sidrpm

Thanks guys. DeOxit may not be as easy to find here in Singapore as I thought. Venturing out and about Monday morning for this.


----------



## MattTCG

DeOxit has become harder to find locally. I used to pick it up from Radio Shack but now I just order from Amazon.


----------



## roadcykler

matttcg said:


> DeOxit has become harder to find locally. I used to pick it up from Radio Shack but now I just order from Amazon.


 
 I believe Radio Shack has their own version of that called "Precision Electronics Cleaner" that comes in a spray can. Works great.


----------



## moodyrn

It does a good job cleaning, but I don't recommend it. It can cause long term damage. It robs the pots of lubricant. After use the smooth feel of turning the pot goes away and you can feel the friction of the metal wiper scrubing against the carbon. And it's not that much cheaper than deoxit. Deoxit is the only stuff I would recommend, and I still recommend using the fader lube right behind it, but it's not crucial.

Most decent size towns have a guitar center. Only 14.99 if you only want to do local, and they carry the gold and fader lube as well


----------



## MattTCG

Good info!!


----------



## shadow419

This stuff from RadioShack does work well.  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3511774&locale=en_US#
  
 RadioShack branded deoxit basically.  Even uses the actual active ingredient in deoxit from caig.


----------



## moodyrn

That was a rumor from a few years ago that has now been dismissed. There was a whole thread about it. They do not use the same ingredients. I have ruined a few pots using the radioshack stuff. Even people over at ak warn against it. I really wanted it to be the same because I wanted to save a few bucks. But as with most things, you get what you pay for.

It's easy to verify though. Just buy a can of each on look in the back. The ingredient list of both are very different. And it has been verified not to be a rebrand. But try at your own risk, it's your money and equipment. But I definitely wouldn't recommend that stuff.


----------



## shadow419

Oh I know it's not exactly the same, and never meant to imply it was.  There's more oil in the radio shack stuff so using less is ideal.  It hasn't ruined any pots for me.  Maybe I've just been lucky.


----------



## sidrpm

shadow419 said:


> Oh I know it's not exactly the same, and never meant to imply it was.  There's more oil in the radio shack stuff so using less is ideal.  It hasn't ruined any pots for me.  Maybe I've just been lucky.


 
 I will try and source both and see what works out.
  
 Thanks guys. During the rest of the day my Pioneer Quad QX9900 behaved well and both channels worked well.


----------



## PhoenixG

sidrpm said:


> I will try and source both and see what works out.
> 
> Thanks guys. During the rest of the day my Pioneer Quad QX9900 behaved well and both channels worked well.


 
 Man, I am just a sucker for blue dials! Great shots!


----------



## sidrpm

phoenixg said:


> Man, I am just a sucker for blue dials! Great shots!


 
 Haha, Me too. And despite the fact that I use my quad purely as a 2 channel amp, the 4 blue meters light up. Also has 2 more blue meters on the extreme left when using FM. This is one "sucker" dial show.


----------



## moodyrn

Well the moody mobile is back on the road again. This time the destination is in T-town, which is much closer(little over an hour away). I will say what I'm going to pick up is a brand I've never owned before and have always been curious about what was so special about them. So hopefully I'll find out soon.

Oh and a lot of people here in T-town still walking around with drooping heads, and after more than a week later, still a lot of dead elephants on the side of the highway lol.
(Some of you may get that)


----------



## MattTCG

Down goes the elephant!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Long live the Tiger...


----------



## Arsis

moodyrn said:


> Well the moody mobile is back on the road again. This time the destination is in T-town, which is much closer(little over an hour away). I will say what I'm going to pick up is a brand I've never owned before and have always been curious about what was so special about them. So hopefully I'll find out soon.
> 
> Oh and a lot of people here in T-town still walking around with drooping heads, and after more than a week later, still a lot of dead elephants on the side of the highway lol.
> (Some of you may get that)




Even still...
Roll Tide!
U of A alum here.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, just having fun. I'm actually from MS, and my team has been a disappointment. But beating those rebs to get in a pathetic bowl game did feel nice though.


----------



## shadow419

moodyrn said:


> Well the moody mobile is back on the road again. This time the destination is in T-town, which is much closer(little over an hour away). I will say what I'm going to pick up is a brand I've never owned before and have always been curious about what was so special about them. So hopefully I'll find out soon.
> 
> Oh and a lot of people here in T-town still walking around with drooping heads, and after more than a week later, still a lot of dead elephants on the side of the highway lol.
> (Some of you may get that)


 
 Ok intrigued to say the least.  Let's hope you have a successful ride.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Well the moody mobile is back on the road again. This time the destination is in T-town, which is much closer(little over an hour away). I will say what I'm going to pick up is a brand I've never owned before and have always been curious about what was so special about them. So hopefully I'll find out soon.
> 
> Oh and a lot of people here in T-town still walking around with drooping heads, and after more than a week later, still a lot of dead elephants on the side of the highway lol.
> (Some of you may get that)


 

 May have been the best college football game I've ever seen.  The finish was at least.


----------



## moodyrn

Here's a few straight out of trunk pics before anything being done.


----------



## MattTCG

Oh the meters!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Loving it Moody.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks guys. Nearly 80lbs of iron. That's amazing considering there's no built in tuner or preamp. Has some nice and unusual features like output auto transformers and a switch that prevents it from going into clipping.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> Thanks guys. Nearly 80lbs of iron. That's amazing considering there's no built in tuner or preamp. Has some nice and unusual features like output auto transformers and a switch that prevents it from going into clipping.


 
  
 We preamp will you drive it with?


----------



## moodyrn

Don't know yet, I would like a c28. But for right now, I'm using the preamp on my stage dac until I can find something.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Oh the meters!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A BIG +1... the meters!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Holy crap!! I never noticed your post count.


----------



## sidrpm

silent one said:


> A BIG +1... the meters!


 
 +2 - those meters, Oh man


----------



## Silent One

Everyone remember their first encounter with the Blue meters? Yeah? I went from looking>staring>tranced-out. And don't recall any 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 of the music!


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah the meters are nice, but visually the 1280 left an impression on me. And although I sold it because I liked my other gear a little better, I do miss looking at it both at night and during the day. But it's funny size wise, the Mac is smaller than every monster receiver or integrated I've owned. But man is that thing heavy. My g901 feels lite in comparison.


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Everyone remember their first encounter with the Blue meters? Yeah? I went from looking>staring>tranced-out. And don't recall any
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I get it...............sometimes I watch my Spec 2 meters dance throughout an entire song.  Need to take up pot smoking again.....................then I can really enjoy them.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Thanks guys. Nearly 80lbs of iron. That's amazing considering there's no built in tuner or preamp. Has some nice and unusual features like output auto transformers and a switch that prevents it from going into clipping.


 

 That's a beauty.  What year was this produced?


----------



## shadow419

Beautiful amp indeed


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, I just ordered a new glass for it. Amazing mcintosh still support these amps. It just set me back 150.00, but given I only paid 399.00 at a pawnshop, I don't mind. They even gave me a free 6 mo return warranty. But they won't have to worry about it.

@ Oregonian, they were produced from 72-79. Mine is from 79.


----------



## ssrock64

Dr. Music in Fairhope had an old McIntosh that sold last week; I wonder if yours is the same one moved a couple hours north and resold. I was under the impression that the one in Fairhope was redone, but I never saw it so it could've been unrestored.


----------



## moodyrn

I hadn't looked inside yet, but will do so soon. I could have gotten by with the slight bubbling around the switches and headphone jacks, but the two large ones up top was just too much for me. Initial impressions tell me this along with the 500c may be the end game amps for me. Too soon to call, but this is definitely in the same league. But one thing it does have going for it is the 200wpc(very conservatively rated I've read) vs 35 for the 500c.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> ^^ Holy crap!! I never noticed your post count.


 
  





 _Ever notice my username?_
  
  
  


oregonian said:


> I get it...............sometimes I watch my Spec 2 meters dance throughout an entire song.  Need to take up pot smoking again.....................then I can really enjoy them.


 
  
 Though, lacking that mesmerizing Blue Mc's have, I quite enjoy the dance of my own meters
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 as well (G-22000).


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Can I change my user name to semi-silent one?


----------



## Argybargy

Very nice, congrats! Looking forward to your impressions and comparisons to your other amps/receivers.


----------



## claybum

Congrats on the McIntosh moodyrn. Would love to hear how it compares to your big Sansui.
  
 I just picked up a G-9000db from AK and pretty much think it's the best thing ever.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks guys. And Claybum I can really see why you would say that. You know how much I love the ka-907. Well the g901 came in and sent it packing to ebay. I really hated to see it go but.....


----------



## claybum

WOW, ka 907 out the door. 
 It's a great amp but I might not be too far behind you. I haven't listened to mine in a while.
 I see you are still holding true to your rule of 3 (?) vintage pieces at a time.
 I think I could be very happy with my new Sansui and my Kenwood model 600, which means I've got some vintage iron to sell!!!


----------



## Silent One

Which Sansui did you bring home?


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> WOW, ka 907 out the door.
> It's a great amp but I might not be too far behind you. I haven't listened to mine in a while.
> I see you are still holding true to your rule of 3 (?) vintage pieces at a time.
> I think I could be very happy with my new Sansui and my Kenwood model 600, which means I've got some vintage iron to sell!!!




Lol, right you are which brings me to my current dilemma. I only have three setups so that means something has to go. I chose to sell the 907 over the 9090 because the 9090 has been completely rebuilt, mint cosmetically, and have a very pleasing tonality although the 907 was still superior overall. So of course the 9090db comes I last again, but it's just too hard to let it go knowing what all have been done to it.

I literally shouldn't have to worry about it for the next 20 years if I live that long. The 500c isn't going anywhere of course. So since the mac is in the same power class as the g901, it would be logical to let it go. Especially since it will be powering my 87db mac xr7. They could really benefit from as much power as possible. But the g901 just sounds too special to let go. And it's mint, bit stock internally. So I'm really at a cross road at this point.


----------



## Skylab

I understand your dilemma. There is a Sansui G -22000 for sale locally and I SOOOOO want to buy it. But I don't know what I would do with it.


----------



## moodyrn

Now that's some serious iron.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Here's a few straight out of trunk pics before anything being done.


 
 Fantastic 2205 unit! And at a great price! I swear I've seen a BUNCH of those this week! I'm trying to get my friend to post a picture of his setup, but he is very modest.


----------



## calipilot227

moodyrn said:


> Here's a few straight out of trunk pics before anything being done.


 
  




  
 (I seriously made this face for about 5 minutes straight after seeing this post.)


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I was randomly checking cl last night and had just looked 30 minutes earlier and it wasn't there. (I do that when I'm bored) But when I saw the listing for 480, I made the same face. I immediately called and it turned out to be a pawnshop. The guy told me if I came with cash, he would take 400.00 out the door. I told my wife even if it wasn't working, I had to have it. I called at 6:36 and they closed at 7:00 and were an hour away. I couldn't sleep last night in fear of someone walking in and stealing it during those last 24 min of store time. 

I got up early so I could be there at 9:00am when they opened. At first I was panicking when it wasn't anywhere to be found on the shelves. I asked a store employee about it and she had no clue. I finally was able to speak to the manager and he had listed it on cl before he even put it on the shelf; it was still in the back. So you can imagine the kool-aid smile on my face once I started strolling the cart with my 2205 on it to my car.


----------



## moodyrn

First, 500.00 for a pristine g901 that's absolutely mint cosmetically and now this. After missing out on so many gems lately(99.00 sx1250, 600.00 2385), it's was my time.


----------



## calipilot227

Recapped the power supply board in my Marantz 2230 today. It ain't pretty, but nothing blew up when I turned it on. I plan to do the main filter caps next. I can't post pics of the front though until the new tuner bulbs arrive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Before:

  
 After:

  
 About 8 bucks in parts for this board, main filter caps will run about $40. I hope to get it completely recapped within the next two months if I can.


----------



## claybum

silent one said:


> Which Sansui did you bring home?


 
 G-9000db


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> I understand your dilemma. There is a Sansui G -22000 for sale locally and I SOOOOO want to buy it. But I don't know what I would do with it.


 





 I had a similar thought...


----------



## SpeakerBox

I just did this on my 2230 (looks like you used Panasonic Caps like I did?).  Even after the PS recap I think I will still sell it.  It is just missing something.  They are beautifully built though.
  
 Quote:


calipilot227 said:


> Recapped the power supply board in my Marantz 2230 today. It ain't pretty, but nothing blew up when I turned it on. I plan to do the main filter caps next. I can't post pics of the front though until the new tuner bulbs arrive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## harrinj

moodyrn said:


> Lol, I was randomly checking cl last night and had just looked 30 minutes earlier and it wasn't there. (I do that when I'm bored) But when I saw the listing for 480, I made the same face. I immediately called and it turned out to be a pawnshop. The guy told me if I came with cash, he would take 400.00 out the door. I told my wife even if it wasn't working, I had to have it. I called at 6:36 and they closed at 7:00 and were an hour away. I couldn't sleep last night in fear of someone walking in and stealing it during those last 24 min of store time.
> 
> I got up early so I could be there at 9:00am when they opened. At first I was panicking when it wasn't anywhere to be found on the shelves. I asked a store employee about it and she had no clue. I finally was able to speak to the manager and he had listed it on cl before he even put it on the shelf; it was still in the back. So you can imagine the kool-aid smile on my face once I started strolling the cart with my 2205 on it to my car.


 
 Hot Poop in Walla Walla, WA has a bunch of those old McIntosh amp's. however it's in a very hipster place downtown young college town and below average shape records that would be $10 or even less at a normal place are almost $100 there. just the pure ridiculousness of the hipster effect on our hobby. There's no prices on the McIntosh stuff so I'm sure they want a big pot of gold for them...


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> Hot Poop in Walla Walla


 
 One of my fave films 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Congrats on the McIntosh Moody. They're are in a class of their own, and what a great price. If you do her up you could sell for double!


----------



## calipilot227

Yes, I used Panasonic caps. I might use Nichicon in the signal path, we'll see. I'm planning to do a full recap, I'm just going board by board as I find the time and money. Even with the pesky hum in the right channel, it's a good sounding amp. Great match for my speakers, which are slightly bright and forward (see my sig).


----------



## moodyrn

lugbug1 said:


> One of my fave films
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, I've already placed a call to Terry up in Nashville who's considered universally to be the mac guru(even by mcintosh themselves). He told me he could do a full restore including all electrolytics and out of spec transistors and resistors for a 200.00. My jaw fell to the floor. I was like what? 200.00. I know it's only a power amp and don't have the extra components of a preamp and tuner, but that's only a portion of what others want. There are ads on ebay now for at least 500. But that doesn't include the main filter caps which are something that pretty easy for me to replace myself anyway. But 200.00 to basically completely refurbish an amp is a killer deal. 
  
 I asked when, but he's a little backed up right now and only has a small window available the first of the year. It's semi-driveable, but I do plan to make the 4.5 hour trip to knoxville in a few weeks. So with a new glass and a refurb, I could prob get at least 2k for it considering they go for around 1500 all stock on ebay right now. But from what I'm hearing right now, and that's just using the preamp out my stage dac which isn't anything special at all, this thing is a keeper. But as good as it's sounding now, I'm going to try to hold off any detailed impressions until I can get a decent mac preamp in my house.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Hey Moody...please pick up my sx1280 while you're up there. If you drop it by for me in Atlanta I will buy lunch and pay for your gas.


----------



## moodyrn

If you hadn't picked it up by then I will definitely do that. Although it may take a couple of weeks for me to make it to the atl lol.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I will even introduce you to the guy with the Mc at the Big Chicken Pawnshop. Maybe together we can convince him to sell.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> Thanks, I've already placed a call to Terry up in Nashville who's considered universally to be the mac guru(even by mcintosh themselves). He told me he could do a full restore including all electrolytics and out of spec transistors and resistors for a 200.00. My jaw fell to the floor. I was like what? 200.00. I know it's only a power amp and don't have the extra components of a preamp and tuner, but that's only a portion of what others want. There are ads on ebay now for at least 500. But that doesn't include the main filter caps which are something that pretty easy for me to replace myself anyway. But 200.00 to basically completely refurbish an amp is a killer deal.
> 
> I asked when, but he's a little backed up right now and only has a small window available the first of the year. It's semi-driveable, but I do plan to make the 4.5 hour trip to knoxville in a few weeks. So with a new glass and a refurb, I could prob get at least 2k for it considering they go for around 1500 all stock on ebay right now. But from what I'm hearing right now, and that's just using the preamp out my stage dac which isn't anything special at all, this thing is a keeper. But as good as it's sounding now, I'm going to try to hold off any detailed impressions until I can get a decent mac preamp in my house.


 
 That sounds like a plan. I certainly don't blame you wanting to keep it either, I know I would! But its also nice when you know you've made a good investment.


----------



## moodyrn

Man this decision on what to get rid of between the g901db and fully refurbished 9090db has been giving me migraines. So I decided that I would just do a ratings scale and which one came in last would go. On my scale I listed the following categories....external condition/looks, internal condition, sound quality, and rarity. After tallying up the points, each one scored a 36.5. Are you kidding me? This is agonizing. It's hard to imagine life without either, but I only have room for one. I should have just left the mac where it was. I was perfectly happy. But now that I have it and gave it for a spend, it's a sound I can't live without. I curse the person who started this thread!! Oh wait, that was me.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ There are worse problems to deal with. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I think that you and I, and others, enjoy the chase. There is something of a rush that I get from finding of these receivers at a great price and making the road trip to go after it. If they still made these old beauties and you could walk into Walmart and buy one, it just wouldn't be the same.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


>


 
 Haha tough call. That is the nature of this illness hobby.. Even when we are the most satisfied or seem to be content, if we see something that is a bargain and we have the wonga then its gonna happen. I've actually been quite happy when I've bought an amp and it hasn't been as good as my favorites. This gives me more peace of mind that what I do own is the best I'm going to get. Problem is, when you get something that is clearly superior to what you already have... Or in your case has a sound that you fall in love with. This happened to me with my new QED and its fantastic hp stage. Luckily it only worked out for one of my headphones. Otherwise I would have sold everything and went on a mission to buy all QED amps out there haha. 
  
 Having said all that, its nice to have some variety. Live with a sound for a few weeks then have a change around. I'm still at the stage where all my amps are budget to mid price and so I don't just own 2 or 3 of the best (I've got 12 amps at the last count..) and so I play around with set ups etc. It's fun! 
  
 You've got some of the best of the best Moody, if you give up one of them, you'll only look to seek it out again. Coz you'll miss it!


----------



## claybum

I would give the nod to keeping a receiver that is fully refurbished. Or you could send them both to me and I could decide for you.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> ^^ There are worse problems to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Very true, but I enjoy the sound and looks of these things more than anything. Like the old saying goes "they just don't build them like that anymore". If I was purely a collector, I probably would keep everything I come across. I remember being in a high end shop in the Miami area a few years ago. This guy sold strictly boutique high end stuff, and I had a blast demoing some of his setups.
  
 Then I saw a room by accident that peeked my interest. I asked him, what was in that room. He answered...his private collection. When I walked in, there were wall to wall shelves of nothing but vintage marantz receivers, and most of them will never leave the room he said. He just enjoyed taking time out just to walk in at look at it all. Now that's a true collector for you.


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> I would give the nod to keeping a receiver that is fully refurbished. Or you could send them both to me and I could decide for you.


 
  
 Lol, but that's the one thing that makes parting with the 9090db so hard. And the fact I spent a half a day making and installing the custom leds on it. 9090db's are very plentiful and come a dime a dozen. But the flawless condition, and the boutique parts it was rebuilt with don't. I may have the nicest, best sounding 9090db on planet. The fact it beat my previous sx1280 should say something. But the g901 is the g901. And even in stock form, beats my 9090db in the sound department.... but just slightly.


----------



## Argybargy

Very true, but I enjoy the sound and looks of these things more than anything.


Time to have the wife assist you in a blind listening test. That just covers the sound aspect, though. Which one got a higher score in the looks category?


----------



## moodyrn

9.5 for the 9090db and 9 for the g901.
  
 The deciding factor maybe not needing 160watts now that I have the 200wpc mac to go with my macs which could sure use all the power they can get. The 9090db is my bedside receiver that's being used exclusively for my w3000. No way would the big "G" ever be used in that role. It would have to be moved down stairs for my cornwalls/he-6 setup. That would leave the fisher as the only viable option for the bedroom rig. But it sounds too good to be limited as just a headphone amp, but boy does those audio technicals sound heavenly with it. So it wouldn't be that big of a lose since the big "g" sounds about 95% as good as the fisher on the cornies.


----------



## Skylab

Personal opinion - keep the restored 9090db. Unrestored units will always be available.


----------



## moodyrn

How can you chose between this


And this lol


----------



## moodyrn

Oh, I posted before I saw your post Sky lol. So it wasn't a direct reply although it may seem that way. But yeah, although the g901 is special, it just don't make much sense to get rid of something that serves perfectly as what it's being currently used for. And something that I won't have to worry about for years to come. I think I'm going to keep the 9090db. Thanks guys. You all have been a great help.


----------



## Silent One

@ moodyrn
  





 Bon bon vie!


----------



## harrinj

I forgot to say that record store in walla walla has hundreds of these receivers upstairs. they aren't accessible but they have tons along with the maybe 5 tube McIntosh amps. sorry about my little hipster rant on that post though...


----------



## JYabbz

I have a question regarding hooking up my headphones Q701 to my stereo receiver via my laptop. The particular stereo receiver I have is the Realistic STA-72 12wpc from the 70s or 80s. In the back there are 2 aux ports and I was going to cconnect the RCA cable that termiinates to 3.5mm jack into my laptop and then connect my headphones into the stereo receiver using the 6.3mm adapter. I am wondering if this stereo receiver woud be enough to power the headphones better than my iphone, ipad, or laptop? If there is any more realitive information I have to put down, I will try to do so. Also if there any tips you guys have that would help, would be great. Unfortanely I do not have enouogh funds right now to get an amp as the headphones were bought earlier than I anticipated as I got a good deal on them.


----------



## Oregonian

jyabbz said:


> I have a question regarding hooking up my headphones Q701 to my stereo receiver via my laptop. The particular stereo receiver I have is the Realistic STA-72 12wpc from the 70s or 80s. In the back there are 2 aux ports and I was going to cconnect the RCA cable that termiinates to 3.5mm jack into my laptop and then connect my headphones into the stereo receiver using the 6.3mm adapter. I am wondering if this stereo receiver woud be enough to power the headphones better than my iphone, ipad, or laptop? If there is any more realitive information I have to put down, I will try to do so. Also if there any tips you guys have that would help, would be great. Unfortanely I do not have enouogh funds right now to get an amp as the headphones were bought earlier than I anticipated as I got a good deal on them.


 

 The better way is to get a cheap DAC (like a FiiO E-10), take USB out from your computer into the DAC, then out the DAC to the Realistic amp.  That is EXACTLY what I have at work and it sounds phenomenal.   Cost you about $40 or so used to get this accomplished.  Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ good advice.


----------



## JYabbz

oregonian said:


> The better way is to get a cheap DAC (like a FiiO E-10), take USB out from your computer into the DAC, then out the DAC to the Realistic amp.  That is EXACTLY what I have at work and it sounds phenomenal.   Cost you about $40 or so used to get this accomplished.  Let me know if you have any questions.




Thanks for the reply, I am planning on getting the E17 hopefully in a couple of months. I just wanted to know if there was a temporary way to listen to the headphones right now using my existing set-up. Or if I would just be better off just using my laptop/portable device in the mean time. 

Thanks again for your input.


----------



## parbaked

But if you have already have RCA > 3.5 cable you can always try and compare for now...


----------



## JYabbz

parbaked said:


> But if you have already have RCA > 3.5 cable you can always try and compare for now...




Thanks I will try that out. I`ll make sure the volumes are down first of course.


----------



## ssrock64

I hate to say this, but I've traded my SX780 for an AMC 1100 preamp. I should've bought a restored unit instead of the problem-prone one I had, and I ended up putting more money into it than it was really worth before giving up. It sounded great, but it spent more time at Dr. Music or M&S Music than it did in my house.
  
 'Till next time, guys.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, the g901 is gone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. No surprise it sold pretty fast(less than a day). I did score a sweet c39 with a broken glass for a really great price though. The glass is around 200.00 and will hopefully be here around the same time as the c39. The big g will be missed, but the mc2205 just totally outclassed it, and overall is really close to the 500c. It might just surpass it with the c39. I've always wanted vintage separates. I'm just thrilled my first vintage separate setup turned out to be  a mac.   
  
 I'm now in the early planning stages to replace all of the lamps with leds. Blue leds on the meters should look stunning. I'm putting green leds everywhere else including the preamp.


----------



## parbaked

Sorry OP but this is the Integrated/Receivers thread.
 We're going to have to ask you to start a new thread for vintage separates!

  
 I guess they don't 'moderate' the vintage thread!
 Congrats on the Mc's!


----------



## JYabbz

oregonian said:


> The better way is to get a cheap DAC (like a FiiO E-10), take USB out from your computer into the DAC, then out the DAC to the Realistic amp.  That is EXACTLY what I have at work and it sounds phenomenal.   Cost you about $40 or so used to get this accomplished.  Let me know if you have any questions.


 
  
 I was able to get my receiver to work with the headphones, I was wondering what volume should I set my laptop volume at to get the clearest sound? I have it set to around 75% and around 50% in my iTunes while I have my receiver volume set @ 20%. Meaning should I set my laptop volume @ the loudest volume and have the receiver volume to the preferred listening volume or it doesn't really matter what volume both are set to?
  
 Also would it be okay if I hook up my iPod/iPad to the receiver?


----------



## moodyrn

parbaked said:


> Sorry OP but this is the Integrated/Receivers thread.
> We're going to have to ask you to start a new thread for vintage separates!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lol, yep you're right! Thanks for calling me one it. Or I can edit the tittle "Calling all Vintage/Receiver/Separates Owner" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Nice amp btw.


----------



## parbaked

moodyrn said:


> Lol, yep you're right! Thanks for calling me one it. Or I can edit the tittle "Calling all Vintage/Receiver/Separates Owner"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, I've owned the VTL Stereo 50 and Maximal Pre-amp since 1990.
 I decided to break them out this winter after a long rest.
 The 5881 output tubes give a nice, comforting blue glow as they mature...


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Well, the g901 is gone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Though, I liked the big G's aesthetic, you made the right move. Often when I think of your "3 Amp _partner-imposed_ rule" I think of Southern delights! You feelin' all comfy with the likes of Sweet Potato Pie, Peach Cobblah & Pecan Pie. And the following month trip over a New Orleans style ol' fashioned Bread Pudding w/Bourbon sauce, a Bananas Foster or a Southern Six-layered Coconut cake...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 uh-oh!!!
  
 So, what do you taste and what do you keep


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> Thanks, I've owned the VTL Stereo 50 and Maximal Pre-amp since 1990.
> I decided to break them out this winter after a long break.
> The 5581 output tubes give a nice, comforting blue glow as they mature...


 
  
 Beautiful shot!


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> Though, I liked the big G's aesthetic, you made the right move. Often when I think of your "3 Amp _partner-imposed_ rule" I think of Southern delights! You feelin' all comfy with the likes of Sweet Potato Pie, Peach Cobblah & Pecan Pie. And the following month trip over a New Orleans style ol' fashioned Bread Pudding w/Bourbon sauce, a Bananas Foster or a Southern Six-layered Coconut cake...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Uh oh, don't get me started on that lovely southern cuisine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Crawfish boils, etouffe, gumbo and jumbalaya are a must too...


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> Uh oh, don't get me started on that lovely southern cuisine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SO hails from a NOLA family; may be in denial 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




about food addictions. Just think if his partner happened by and read this page, she'd give him a real good teasin'!


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> SO hails from a NOLA family; may be in denial
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have room for you at my table


----------



## moodyrn

One thing I will say about what we folks here in the deep south call nawlins. The food will get you in as much trouble as the festivities in the quarter can. My wife and I have taken trips there just to eat. But the heart burn will eat you alive, along with the blood pressure skyrocketing. But man it's sure good going down.


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> Beautiful shot!


 
 Gotta love those pentodes!


----------



## brunk

moodyrn said:


> One thing I will say about what we folks here in the deep south call nawlins. The food will get you in as much trouble as the festivities in the quarter can. My wife and I have taken trips there just to eat. But the heart burn will eat you alive, along with the blood pressure skyrocketing. But man it's sure good going down.


 
 Oh yeah, love the food from the quarter lol. So many places to choose from, and its ALL good! I live up north now and what people call spicy here is a complete joke lol. Man, what I wouldn't give for a REAL cajun joint here


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> Oh yeah, love the food from the quarter lol. So many places to choose from, and its ALL good! I live up north now and what people call spicy here is a complete joke lol. Man, what I wouldn't give for a REAL cajun joint here


 
  
 Shoot! All this chat, I might have to queue up some Zydeco late tonight. Really love Geno Delafose...


----------



## brunk

.


----------



## Silent One

Except, the problem becomes without knowing, you've already "linked" me via quote. I'd be better served if you unquoted me whether I be widit or no...


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> Except, the problem becomes without knowing, you've already "linked" me via quote. I'd be better served if you unquoted me whether I be widit or no...


 
 I understand, I just went ahead and took it down. It might be a little over the edge for some. God bless your soul though SO! It's funny how small the world really is 
  
 EDIT: Little history on me. I used to live around Lake Chuck, Atchafalaya, and far south-eastern parts of TX. I love the land  I can't imagine living in a dense city...yuck.


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> I understand, I just went ahead and took it down. It might be a little over the edge for some. God bless your soul though SO! It's funny how small the world really is


 
 I know I know... I'm just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




keeping the thread_ tight. _As our dialogue here isn't limited to head-fi members. One thing I appreciate at a high-end site I've membership to, the site doesn't make posts public - membership required.


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> I know I know... I'm just
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I know what you mean


----------



## Oregonian

jyabbz said:


> I was able to get my receiver to work with the headphones, I was wondering what volume should I set my laptop volume at to get the clearest sound? I have it set to around 75% and around 50% in my iTunes while I have my receiver volume set @ 20%. Meaning should I set my laptop volume @ the loudest volume and have the receiver volume to the preferred listening volume or it doesn't really matter what volume both are set to?
> 
> Also would it be okay if I hook up my iPod/iPad to the receiver?




Yes, I have one vintage setup going direct from iPhone 4 straight into an integrated amp via a 3.5------>RCA's on the aux input. Works just fine via LOD which means you don't need to worry about phone volume.


----------



## brunk

Back on topic...
  
 Can someone tell me what these monoblocks are? They look like a dream come true.


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> I know what you mean


 
 I'm going shopping tomorrow on behalf of the Sansui (Home Depot) - I think it's finally time to buy a flat dolly. All my other wheels are employed elsewhere. I just thought about walking it across the floor... _again_... we're done!


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> Yes, I have one vintage setup going direct from iPhone 4 straight into an integrated amp via a 3.5  >RCA's on the aux input. Works just fine via LOD which means you don't need to worry about phone volume.


 
  
 That's what I do for the Sansui!


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> I'm going shopping tomorrow on behalf of the Sansui (Home Depot) - I think it's finally time to buy a flat dolly. All my other wheels are employed elsewhere. I just thought about walking it across the floor... _again_... we're done!


 
 Ugh..can't say I blame you with that vintage beast!


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going shopping tomorrow on behalf of the Sansui (Home Depot) - I think it's finally time to buy a flat dolly. All my other wheels are employed elsewhere. I just thought about walking it across the floor... _again_... we're done!
> ...


 
  
 It's been great exercise a time or two or three a week for short listens. But... what if I get unnecessarily hurt? I haven't gotten lazy just 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




smarter.
  
 Those beastly monos are Wavestream++ amps!


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> It's been great exercise a time or two or three a week for short listens. But... what if I get unnecessarily hurt? I haven't gotten lazy just
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Cool thanks! Well, it's only $34k used, I better start getting into a different profession lol. Sooo drool-worthy, my goodness.


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> Cool thanks! Well, it's only $34k used, I better start getting into a different profession lol. Sooo drool-worthy, my goodness.


 





 They actually look like property of a city's public works department!


----------



## LugBug1

jyabbz said:


> I was able to get my receiver to work with the headphones, I was wondering what volume should I set my laptop volume at to get the clearest sound? I have it set to around 75% and around 50% in my iTunes while I have my receiver volume set @ 20%. Meaning should I set my laptop volume @ the loudest volume and have the receiver volume to the preferred listening volume or it doesn't really matter what volume both are set to?
> 
> Also would it be okay if I hook up my iPod/iPad to the receiver?


 
 Generally its better to have your hard drive at full volume (or as near) then everything else to suit, less data loss that way. However, some of these old amps are sooo loud that you have no choice but to lower your source level. But I would just do this from the media player.
  
 When you get your dac, I would look into getting Wasapi set up so that you can bypass your soundcard and send a bit perfect signal to the dac.


----------



## Silent One

Finally broke down and bought a hand-truck today. Tonight, the HiFiMAN HE-6 is leashed up to the speaker taps - naked..._ with no resistors._


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Finally broke down and bought a hand-truck today. Tonight, the HiFiMAN HE-6 is leashed up to the speaker taps - naked... _with no resistors._ :veryevil:




And the results? Real, spectacular?


----------



## gikigill

silent one said:


> Finally broke down and bought a hand-truck today. Tonight, the HiFiMAN HE-6 is leashed up to the speaker taps - naked..._ with no resistors._


 

  
 Judging by my experience, it should be a good match, Rarely does a vintage amp go wrong unless its poorly built or just plain bad quality.
  
 The HE6 can actually be used as a good indicator of the quality of vintage amps.


----------



## moodyrn

And given how spectacular they sounded on the g901, that should really be a killer sounding combo.


----------



## Silent One

How does it sound? A resounding YES! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This has been a regular pairing, nuthin' new. I merely posted pix to show off 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




my new $19 hand-truck. After walking the big G back and forth to the center of the room and back for each session, after a couple of months I had it! H-e-l-l-o Home Depot...
  




  
  
 I could use some Canned Air to blow out all the dust inside those nooks & crannies. Perhaps, over the weekend...


----------



## brunk

@Silent One Your rig never ceases to impress. Loving all the iron and tube goodies you have


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> @Silent One Your rig never ceases to impress. Loving all the iron and tube goodies you have


 




 Thanks kindly, sir. My system is still emerging... slowly rolling out pieces from storage.


----------



## Silent One

*DUST*
  
 What are some of the members' best practices for dust maintenance with their vintage lovelies?


----------



## brunk

silent one said:


> *DUST*
> 
> What are some of the members' best practices for dust maintenance with their vintage lovelies?


 
 I like to use a feather duster (to pick up much as i can), followed by an air compressor


----------



## LugBug1

You could try exfoliating 3 times a day... No dust!


----------



## brunk

lugbug1 said:


> You could try exfoliating 3 times a day... No dust!


 
 Lol! In addition, I like to use one of those higher spec'd allergen air filters on my HVAC. That alone prevents 90% of dust issues. Good for your health too


----------



## palmfish

silent one said:


> How does it sound? A resounding YES!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




All you need now is a telescoping pool skimmer pole and you will have the one thing you're missing - a remote!


----------



## Silent One

palmfish said:


> All you need now is a telescoping pool skimmer pole and you will have the one thing you're missing - a remote!


 
  
 I absolutely adore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 being "Remote-less!" It promotes _movement_ inside the listening room. Plus, lines are more clearly drawn between vintage iron and 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




platsicky eras.


----------



## MattTCG

I have a question...there is a big difference when using  pre-amp between my dac and pioneer sx1050. The sound seems more dynamic and full without the preamp. I've used both the lyr and A2 as pre-amp with the same result. Any thoughts?


----------



## Silent One

brunk said:


> I like to use a feather duster (to pick up much as i can), followed by an air compressor


 
  
 My current office-feather-duster doesn't quite reach into the vertical grooves of the amp; will seek finer instrument. Maybe something soft; washable...


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> I have a question...there is a big difference when using  pre-amp between my dac and pioneer sx1050. The sound seems more dynamic and full without the preamp. I've used both the lyr and A2 as pre-amp with the same result. Any thoughts?


 
  
 How does the SX-1050's own pre-amp sound? What Interconnects are you using? Lastly, when using external pre-amps, does the SX-1050 retain clarity of presentation sans body and dynamics?


----------



## LugBug1

My experience when using pre amps is that you end up adding the sound of the pre amp. Basically, you need a very good pre amp for it to be invisible power. But ime the sound always ends up thicker with less clarity than without.


----------



## MattTCG

silent one said:


> How does the SX-1050's own pre-amp sound? What Interconnects are you using? Lastly, when using external pre-amps, does the SX-1050 retain clarity of presentation sans body and dynamics?


 
  
 I'm using audio quest golden gate IC's. They are not the be all, end all but very decent quality. The clarity seems to be there...just not as full or rich.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> I'm using audio quest golden gate IC's. They are not the be all, end all but very decent quality. The clarity seems to be there...just not as full or rich.


 
 Curiously, how does the Pioneer's own pre-amp sound?


----------



## MattTCG

silent one said:


> Curiously, how does the Pioneer's own pre-amp sound?


 
  
 Great...


----------



## brunk

I'd like to add that implementing a preamp into the chain is not an arbitrary thing. Many things must be considered. For example, the DACs output impedance must be a good match with the preamps input impedance, and the preamps output impedance must be a good match with the amps input impedance. That's not taking into account if you have excessive gain issues, and whether an active or a passive pre is best for you. Plus, it does no good if you can't bypass the vintage amps own pre anyways, as all you're doing is inserting needless gain stages and circuitry.


----------



## SpeakerBox

My experience says that, in general, less is more.  When I listen to my main system I am routing the signal through the analog bypass inputs on the pre-amp.  Little or no active circuitry touching the signal - sounds very clean.  Second the point about impedance matching also.  When I first connected my JRDG1s to my preamp I had their input impedance set low.  Sounded awful.  Bumped it to 100K and it was a different system (the Rowlands have adjustable input impedance).  The preamp wanted a higher impedance.


----------



## moodyrn

lugbug1 said:


> My experience when using pre amps is that you end up adding the sound of the pre amp. Basically, you need a very good pre amp for it to be invisible power. But ime the sound always ends up thicker with less clarity than without.


 
 That's the same thing as just using the receiver without a preamp(unless he's adding one without separating  it from the power amp which I'm sure he's not). Just using a receiver as is, you are listening to the power amp and preamp at the same time. That's why many of the upper line receivers/integrates allow you to separate them to use a better preamp.  
  
 The preamps in many of these vintage pieces have been notorious for being noisy. Separating the preamp and comparing  them to the modern preamp I had at the time was one of the things I use to do for fun whenever I've brought home a new "vintage toy" For example, with most of the gear I've done that with,  using the headphone out with any of my low impedance cans was way too noisy. So I would disconnect the jumpers, and plug in my preamp into the input of the receiver/integrated amp. Not only was the noise floor much lower, but I could drive iems from the headphone out with  a completely black background.
  
I know the first thing you must be thinking is "yeah, but that receiver probably needed to be recaped". Well, I've had the same result with my fully restored 9090db. I can get a black background by engaging  the -20 button with my w3000anv, but even then, I still get hiss and a little hum with my jh13. There have been some exceptions. Both the 2325 and 2330 have very good preamps. And the ka-907 have an excellent preamp...one of the best I've heard infact. But for the most part, the preamp in many of these vintage amps are noisy. Both sx1280s I've had were noisy with anything outside of orthos.
  
 One last quick point....it's been well documented that many prefer the 1250 over the 1280. I read of a person over at ak who had both in his home to do a direct comparison. His results were, he thought they were similar but the 1250 pulled ahead because of the harshness in the lower treble of the 1280(I too have experienced this on both of mine). He then decided to separate the preamps and use the 1250 preamp on the 1280, and found the 1280 to sound exactly like the 1250 and vice versa with the 1250 using the 1280 preamp.


----------



## brunk

^ Just goes to show how important a great preamp really is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Thanks for sharing Moodyrn.


----------



## Skylab

I had an AK buddy of mine make me a solid walnut case for my fully restored SX-1980 - which really completes the restoration


----------



## Silent One

That finish looks better
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 than ice cream at a July picnic!


----------



## Skylab

Thanks SO. I had him finish it with Arm R Seal - it's as smooth as it gets!


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> I had an AK buddy of mine make me a solid walnut case for my fully restored SX-1980 - which really completes the restoration
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Really nice job!
 Is that the original metal work (vents)?


----------



## Argybargy

Looks brand new! The slightly darker tone harmonizes nicely with the black meters.


----------



## Skylab

parbaked said:


> Really nice job!
> Is that the original metal work (vents)?


 
  
 Thanks - yes this is the original metal. This unit was really mint cosmetically which was the main reason that I bought it and had it restored. Rare opportunity.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Congrats Rob! She's a real thing of beauty. Ready for another 35 years of faithful service.
  
 Quote:


skylab said:


> I had an AK buddy of mine make me a solid walnut case for my fully restored SX-1980 - which really completes the restoration


----------



## LugBug1

You certainly wouldn't think it was 35 year old! Looks absolutely stunning Rob. (wish my wife was in that shape... She's 35 as well.) I joke, shes beautiful too


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> Thanks - yes this is the original metal.


 
  
  


lugbug1 said:


> (wish my wife was in that shape... She's 35 as well.) I joke, shes beautiful too


 
 I wish my wifey was still 35 years old but she does have all her original mettle!


----------



## moodyrn

Wow!! Looks like a reproduction 30th anniversary edition. I would take out insurance on that one. Congrats.


----------



## MattTCG

Gorgeous  Rob!! There seems to be a "soul" in these old receivers. Some sort of inner karma that gives them personality and flavor. They will always be part of my setup for both speakers and hp's.


----------



## sidrpm

matttcg said:


> Gorgeous  Rob!! There seems to be a "soul" in these old receivers. Some sort of inner karma that gives them personality and flavor. They will always be part of my setup for both speakers and hp's.


 
 Yup, perhaps they too have enjoyed the years of lovely music played through them and smile back at us as they bring smiles to our faces.


----------



## Oregonian

There is nothing like this old iron...................and Rob, your model looks like it came out of a time machine.  Better than new. 
  
 I again thank all you early adopters for this thread, which got me started thinking about vintage amps, which got me a Spec system.  You guys rock. 
  
 I wake up, grab some coffee, sit in my recliner in my family room, fire up my KA-5700 fed by a laptop and NuForce Udac2,  throw on my D2000's and enjoy an hour of Pandora, Spotify or iTunes. Then it's time for a shower, a 30 minute ride to work in my truck with a 1000 watt stereo fed by an iPod.  After arriving at work I fire up my computer feeding my FiiO E-10 which then feeds my Realistic STA-64B, driving either my Denon D600's or my Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers.  After a day of this, I head home, decompressing via listening to my truck stereo again.   Home again, first a quick workout in the garage listening to either my Pro900's, M100's or Q40's via iPod Classic and Arrow 3G, then it's dinner and up to my home office/media room where my Spec system is fired up, feeding my D7000's or TH900's from either a CD, iPod Touch or some vinyl.  I pinch myself how lucky I am.  This is a typical day for me. 
  
 Yeah, I live the dream, and it's thanks to all of you.


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ You need to get some in-ears for the dinner table mate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Great stuff though. Living the dream indeed!!


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> ^^^* You need to get some in-ears for the dinner table mate. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 haha...doesn't everyone have a pair of iem's? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My typical day with music usually starts about 7 am where I listen to tunes on my computer while I organize my day. That's no more than an hour. I've stopped listening to music in the car. It was just too much...sensory overload. I usually get an hour in the late afternoon when I get home from work and then maybe an hour late evening. 
  
 That is my typical day. The past three weeks, I have listened to no hp's and very little on my speaker setup. Reason, tinnitus. I fired off a rifle at Thanksgiving (3 times) with no ear protection. Of course I know better but I stumbled across a deer hunting with my brother and adrenaline got the best of me. I have had trouble with tinnitus for about two years and I really have to monitor my usage with music or it will flair up again. 
  
 This is the worse it's ever been. But finally, finally it's getting a little better. I hope to gradually return to music and hp's just after Christmas. Fingers are crossed.


----------



## palmfish

matttcg said:


> haha...doesn't everyone have a pair of iem's?
> 
> My typical day with music usually starts about 7 am where I listen to tunes on my computer while I organize my day. That's no more than an hour. I've stopped listening to music in the car. It was just too much...sensory overload. I usually get an hour in the late afternoon when I get home from work and then maybe an hour late evening.
> 
> ...




Im crossing my fingers for you Matt. Ive suffered from tinnitus for over 15 years and I wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. I hope yours fades into the background again soon.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks brother. I'm hoping the same of course. I'm concerned because this is worse than ever before. Tinnitus for me means high pitched ringing accompanied by VERY sensitive hearing. The TV at a reasonable volume sounds like it's blaring loud. I hoping that my hiatus from music will rectify the problem and I'll be enjoying my tunes again soon.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> haha...doesn't everyone have a pair of iem's?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I come from a family that uses guns for game keeping and I know the damage that can be done to ears. None of the buggers can hear me speak without shouting! hope your ears get better bud. 
  
 Better still, don't use guns  Its much more fun killing time listening to music 
  
 My routine for the last few years has been all about night time listening. It's something to look forward to. I have my living room rig where I can listen and type this while the Mrs is watching her drivel on tv  I then have my bedside rig to fall asleep listening to.. Again while she watches her drivel. She says my Jazz is annoying every now and again but luckily she's a heavy sleeper. I'm a dreadful sleeper and so couldn't do without my bed rig!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Funny thing is, I'm not a hunter. My brother though is like Burt Reynolds in the movie Deliverance. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, he works to be able to hunt. He is incredible good at it.


----------



## calipilot227

I never get tired of seeing Skylab's SX-1980


----------



## Skylab

Thanks all of you fellow vintage lovers for the kind words. The new case was the final piece of the puzzle on that 1980. It's now exactly what I wanted - looks like new, and works / sounds at LEAST as good as new, if not better. And should work a long, long time


----------



## palmfish

matttcg said:


> Thanks brother. I'm hoping the same of course. I'm concerned because this is worse than ever before. Tinnitus for me means high pitched ringing accompanied by VERY sensitive hearing. The TV at a reasonable volume sounds like it's blaring loud. I hoping that my hiatus from music will rectify the problem and I'll be enjoying my tunes again soon.




Tinnitus is very often accompanied by hyperacusis. Again, hopefully with rest it will improve. If it doesnt, there are still options. I am still able to enjoy music even with my tinnitus. 

BTW, mine is high frequency ringing with hyperacusis too. Mine is like a polytonal sine wave centered at about 5000 Hz and is about 60 dB in loudness - 24/7...

Hang in there.


----------



## Oregonian

I feel for you guys with tinnitus.  My father in law has it and not only is he deaf (I'm his hearing when we hunt WITH BOWS) as he can't hear an elk bugle a quarter mile away from us but the ringing really bothers him.
  
 I remember a member who bought a TH900 and a Grace 903 amp, then proceeded to blow his ears up to the point of not being able to use headphones at all any more.  That was a sad thread but a good learning for all of us.  Keep it reasonable. 
  
 Matt, hang in there bud - easy for me to say but I'll be thinking good thoughts so you can get back to what we know you love.


----------



## Argybargy

skylab said:


> Thanks all of you fellow vintage lovers for the kind words. The new case was the final piece of the puzzle on that 1980. It's now exactly what I wanted - looks like new, and works / sounds at LEAST as good as new, if not better. And should work a long, long time




Rob, 
Are you by chance evaluating the LCD-X as a replacement to the HE-6?


----------



## Skylab

argybargy said:


> Rob,
> Are you by chance evaluating the LCD-X as a replacement to the HE-6?




Currently, no plans. Based on the descriptions I have read, and my own sonic preferences, I'm inclined to believe I would prefer sticking with the LCD-3. And my reviewing duties on InnerFidelity are limited to amps.


----------



## Argybargy

Gotcha, thanks. I may give them a try in a year or so.... These days I don't seem to have the urge to jump on every new model that comes down the pipeline.


----------



## Skylab

Same here. I was really into that for 5-6 years or so, but not really so much anymore. The combination of the LCD-3 and the AT W3000ANV keep me happy enough that I'm really not into putting my money there. Lots of other places to spend my audio bucks


----------



## moodyrn

I'm pretty much there myself. I've tried a couple of midfi cans here and there. But my main three headphones have been the same since purchasing the w3000anv a couple of years ago. But when it comes to vintage, I just can't seem to get enough. Just when I think I'm done for a while something like a g901 comes up.


----------



## Silent One

I quite enjoy watching your adventures... and watching you sweat.... under her watchful eye (just funnin')


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> I feel for you guys with tinnitus.  My father in law has it and not only is he deaf (I'm his hearing when we hunt WITH BOWS) as he can't hear an elk bugle a quarter mile away from us but the ringing really bothers him.
> 
> I remember a member who bought a TH900 and a Grace 903 amp, then proceeded to blow his ears up to the point of not being able to use headphones at all any more.  That was a sad thread but a good learning for all of us.  Keep it reasonable.
> 
> Matt, hang in there bud - easy for me to say but I'll be thinking good thoughts so you can get back to what we know you love.


 
  
 Got it too.  Mainly in the right ear - high frequency ringing and distortion when listening loud.  This has to be the worst thing that can happen to an audiophile.


----------



## harrinj

I found a Marantz 2275 for $200. I WISH I could get it.....  Maybe next month. but then again now that I've mentioned it here it will vanish like all the others  

 Does anyone here use a Schiit Gungnir with their vintage amps? I am planning to get one. I gotta ditch this nuforce crap. I might just buy a Gungnir and put this UDH-100 on CL since Nuforce abandoned me after I mentioned "refund"...


----------



## mhamel

harrinj said:


> I found a Marantz 2275 for $200. I WISH I could get it.....  Maybe next month. but then again now that I've mentioned it here it will vanish like all the others
> 
> Does anyone here use a Schiit Gungnir with their vintage amps? I am planning to get one. I gotta ditch this nuforce crap. I might just buy a Gungnir and put this UDH-100 on CL since Nuforce abandoned me after I mentioned "refund"...


 
  
  
 I've been using a Gungnir to feed my Pioneer SA-9100 for a while, and it has been very good.   However, I picked up a Dangerous Music Source last week and while the Gungnir is an outstanding DAC, so far I'm finding that I really prefer the DM Source.   
  
    -Mike


----------



## claybum

Tinnitus in the house here also. Or should I say in the head. One loud concert last august pushed me over the edge. I had ear plugs in that night but it wasn't enough. The fear and anxiety it produced in my life was huge. I didn't touch my headphones for 2 months. Fortunately, I have a nice speaker system. My tinnitus has improved greatly with giving my ears a break and I now feel I am on notice, I have to be very careful with my listening and only attend mellow, acoustic concerts. One thing for sure, my tinnitus has great sound stage. It basically surrounds my head.
  
 Be careful out there folks, tinnitus is a bummer.
  
 And to keep this post on topic I will say.......my Sansui G9000db is a friggin rockin beast. I love it
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !!!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

claybum said:


> Tinnitus in the house here also. Or should I say in the head. One loud concert last august pushed me over the edge. I had ear plugs in that night but it wasn't enough. The fear and anxiety it produced in my life was huge. I didn't touch my headphones for 2 months. Fortunately, I have a nice speaker system. My tinnitus has improved greatly with giving my ears a break and I now feel I am on notice, I have to be very careful with my listening and only attend mellow, acoustic concerts. One thing for sure, my tinnitus has great sound stage. It basically surrounds my head.
> 
> Be careful out there folks, tinnitus is a bummer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, loud concert here too.  Was almost in front of a main speaker at a Pat Metheny concert.  My ears were ringing for weeks after that.
  
 Now I also listen moderately low and always have ear protection when mowing the lawn, for example.  There is always at least some distortion/ringing in my right ear - but it varies in level.


----------



## Frank18944

I can't believe the length of this thread!
  
 I love to restore vintage AM/FM Stereo receiver's & a few tuners from the 70's. One of my favorites is the Sansui 5000A followed by the Marantz 2250B. Both have headphone outputs which just use resistors to couple the power amp output to the headphone jack so your hearing the entire audio chain. The Marantz has the best audio between the two. Both of them easily drive all of the headphones I own and I've accumulated a pile of them the latest of which is the SONY MDR-7506 PRO that I bought two weeks ago. I know these are a very old design from the early 90's but they are extremely revealing.
  
 Anyway, thought I'd chime in - Happy Holidays to everyone and Blessings to you and your families.
  
 Frank


----------



## Argybargy

Welcome! And feel free to post pix of your vintage gear.


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> And to keep this post on topic I will say.......my Sansui G9000db is a friggin rockin beast. I love it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It's definitely the best vintage solid state receiver I've listened to, and beat many well regarded intergrates I've had in my house too. It wasn't far behind the mac using the preamp from my stage dac. I did miss it until receiving my c39 preamp yesterday. Now I hardly even think about it. If a restored one comes up for a good price, I quickly grab it though. It's the only solid state receiver I'll ever buy again. Well.......probably. You know how that goes.


----------



## LugBug1

frank18944 said:


> Anyway, thought I'd chime in - Happy Holidays to everyone and Blessings to you and your families.
> 
> Frank


 
 +1 on the welcome 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 If you love vintage this is the right place.
  
 Though I'm surprised you like the sound of the Marantz over the Sansui? Could be the stereotypical bright Sony headphones perhaps..?


----------



## Frank18944

whether I use my Grado 125i, AKG K701, or Sennheiser HD580 the verdict is the same - the Marantz 2250B sounds better to me. I attribute most of the difference in sound between the Sansui 5000A & Marantz 2250B to the differences in FM tuners and stereo demultiplexing circuits. I make my comments based on listening to FM Stereo broadcasts. I've yet to compare the receivers using a CD or high resolution source, or turntable through just the audio sections.
  
 I think it's always interesting how we judge headphones differently. I wouldn't consider the SONY MDR7506 to be bright. I don't think their audio response is tilted up as some headphones are. Now that I own a pair I can understand why they are so popular with audio engineers.  I built a test set up for measuring headphones (a VERY long time ago) but never tested the SONY's. I have used the SONY's with my home brew line high performance (pat on back  ) line driver/headphone amp with high resolution sources and still love them although they are extremely sensitive.
  
 Now you guys are going to need to consider that I've been in high end audio since the 70's and will be 69 years old come next July. The point I'm trying to make here in my clumsy way is that my ears aren't what they used to be. Although I try to keep up with audio technology and things audio the fact is that after two brain surgeries three years ago which didn't work out so well, things are just not as easy for me as they used to be, so ya gotta consider the source 
  
 I'm not sure how to up-load pictures on this forum but we'll see how it turns out. I've completed restoration on the Sansui 5000A but the Marantz 2250B is a work in progress. The pictures don't do justice to how these vintage receivers really look - they are mint cosmetically and the electronic restorations have made them better than when they came off the production line (my not so humble opinion).
  
 For me, especially for the Sansui, the work I do on them is a labor of love.....just tried to insert an image and got a message that my acct doesn't have the required permission so I'll try pasting into the message body. Hopefully that'll work........
  
 Nope, tried and failed. Looks like no pictures. How do you guys get pictures up-loaded?


----------



## LugBug1

frank18944 said:


> whether I use my Grado 125i, AKG K701, or Sennheiser HD580 the verdict is the same - the Marantz 2250B sounds better to me. I attribute most of the difference in sound between the Sansui 5000A & Marantz 2250B to the differences in FM tuners and stereo demultiplexing circuits. I make my comments based on listening to FM Stereo broadcasts. I've yet to compare the receivers using a CD or high resolution source, or turntable through just the audio sections.
> 
> I think it's always interesting how we judge headphones differently. I wouldn't consider the SONY MDR7506 to be bright. I don't think their audio response is tilted up as some headphones are. Now that I own a pair I can understand why they are so popular with audio engineers.  I built a test set up for measuring headphones (a VERY long time ago) but never tested the SONY's. I have used the SONY's with my home brew line high performance (pat on back  ) line driver/headphone amp with high resolution sources and still love them although they are extremely sensitive.
> 
> ...


 
 I was just being playful with the Sony reference my friend. You have my full respect, I'm 43. Just post often for a while and then try again and your pics will be up.


----------



## parbaked

frank18944 said:


> Now you guys are going to need to consider that I've been in high end audio since the 70's and will be 69 years old come next July.


 
 Yes, welcome to the the "Vintage Owners" thread...


----------



## Frank18944

now that was just plain cruel 
  
 someone needs to bring some sanity to this forum........ (doubt that it'll be me)


----------



## parbaked

frank18944 said:


> now that was just plain cruel


 
 Not at all! I predate solid state as well...


----------



## LugBug1

frank18944 said:


> now that was just plain cruel
> 
> someone needs to bring some sanity to this forum........ (doubt that it'll be me)


 

  
 hahaha Soz folks but its one of my fave pics.


----------



## Argybargy

Not sure, but I think you need a minimum number of posts to upload photos.


----------



## Silent One

Yes, I believe the number is "10."


----------



## Frank18944

I must have hit that number by now if they count my posts to other topics & threads in the forum.  I found Head-Fi when I was researching the SONY MDR7506 before I bought a pair and thought Head-Fi was just about headphones, HP amps and things related to HP use but after getting the thread update emails it looks like it covers a lot more. It's easy to get lost here.
  
 Frank
 ARS - W3MEE


----------



## harrinj

mhamel said:


> I've been using a Gungnir to feed my Pioneer SA-9100 for a while, and it has been very good.   However, I picked up a Dangerous Music Source last week and while the Gungnir is an outstanding DAC, so far I'm finding that I really prefer the DM Source.
> 
> -Mike


 
 I actually bought one on amazon, it came today and good grief its amazing with my Harman Kardon 670! I could not believe how huge the Gungnir is when I opened it up that was kinda shocking  and Never again will I buy Nuforce crap! Best of all with the two RCA out's, I can have another vintage amp hooked up so it's easier to switch (I switch between my vintage amps all the time...) 

 It's nice hooked straight into my 670 (amp I'm using this week haha) for some reason I was gathering conflicting reports that you needed a preamp but :| also It's nice to not have popping every few seconds.... 

 Yeah this is nice


----------



## mhamel

harrinj said:


> I actually bought one on amazon, it came today and good grief its amazing with my Harman Kardon 670! I could not believe how huge the Gungnir is when I opened it up that was kinda shocking  and Never again will I buy Nuforce crap! Best of all with the two RCA out's, I can have another vintage amp hooked up so it's easier to switch (I switch between my vintage amps all the time...)
> 
> It's nice hooked straight into my 670 (amp I'm using this week haha) for some reason I was gathering conflicting reports that you needed a preamp but :| also It's nice to not have popping every few seconds....
> 
> Yeah this is nice


 
  
 Congrats on the new Gungnir!   I wish you many hours of good listening through it!  It really is a great DAC, and the multiple outputs are very convenient.   Mine actually went up for sale today, I would keep both the Gungnir and the Dangerous Source, but it deserves to be enjoyed, not just kept as a backup.   The DS won me over by a small margin.
  
     -Mike


----------



## PhoenixG

phoenixg said:


> ###
> I hope the links to the pictures work...


 
 I think you can put in pictures earlier on. This was from my 5th post haha.  ^^


----------



## MattTCG

That's a beauty PheonixG!! I will go on record to say that as much as appreciate and drooling over the 1980 I'll never own one. The cost is just too prohibitive. So unless I find one at a yard sale, I'll settle down with my 1280 and just enjoy it. I've actually stopped perusing CL and such. The 1280 just hits the sweet spot for me and I'm happy to call it end game. 
  
 Now if a fisher 500c were to come along...


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> That's a beauty PheonixG!! I will go on record to say that as much as appreciate and drooling over the 1980 I'll never own one. The cost is just too prohibitive. So unless I find one at a yard sale, I'll settle down with my 1280 and just enjoy it. I've actually stopped perusing CL and such. The 1280 just hits the sweet spot for me and I'm happy to call it end game.
> 
> Now if a fisher 500c were to come along...


 
  
 +1 on the 500c!


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> +1 on the 500c!


 

 So I read a lot of comments about the 500C that makes it seem it is better than TOTL SS stuff.   Is it really better than a 1980 or my Spec stuff?


----------



## parbaked

oregonian said:


> So I read a lot of comments about the 500C that makes it seem it is better than TOTL SS stuff.   Is it really better than a 1980 or my Spec stuff?


 
 Only if you prefer tubes.
 I think different is more accurate than "better".
 Interestingly we are still making tube amps with similar design to the 500C, whereas no one is making anything that resembles 1970s monster receivers.


----------



## Skylab

Matt, unless for some crazy reason you desperately need more power than the 1280 delivers, there really isn't any compelling reason to go from a 1280 to a 1980. It has a few marginally improved things over the 1280 but your money would be much better put info a full restore of the 1280 you have, IMHO. 

As for 500c versus 1280/1980 - they're fish and fowl. Apples and oranges. One or ther other may be "right" for any individual, but one really can't be said to be better than the other...they're just too different, as others have said.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks for the advice Rob. I have heard you mention this before. It's funny how selective my memory can be when it comes to upgrades. I see some shinny steel and sha-bam...memory goes right out the window. 
  
 I have not heard the 500c but have read plenty about it and listened carefully to Moody's comments. Possibly one someone, possibly Moody hint hint wink wink, would invite me to listen to theirs.


----------



## Skylab

When I had both a fully restored 1280 and 1980, the sound from the AUX input was identical, to these ears. The 1980 has the slightly better phono stage and slightly better FM tuner. Beyond that, it's just size and watts  And the 1280 is no slouch in either of those departments either!!!!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Words of wisdom. I plan to focus my attention on vinyl next. I'll like to find a nice TT to go with the 1280 and start a collection of choice LP's.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> Thanks for the advice Rob. I have heard you mention this before. It's funny how selective my memory can be when it comes to upgrades. I see some shinny steel and sha-bam...memory goes right out the window.
> 
> I have not heard the 500c but have read plenty about it and listened carefully to Moody's comments. Possibly one someone, possibly Moody hint hint wink wink, would invite me to listen to theirs.


 
 I will say this, the 500c was a real eye opener. I really wasn't interested because I had  x100c integrated and I thought they would sound similar. The x100c is what you would think a tube amp from that era would sound like. Very warm,  lush romantic with a fat, slightly tubby bass. The highs are just slightly rolled off. The one I had was what some might call restored. All bad and out of spec parts replaced and some sections rebuilt, but not a total gutting of everything.
  
 It wasn't until after I read a couple of reviews online that I began to have an interest. The description of it in both reviews didn't sound like anything like my x100c. Then all of the impressions from very prominent users over at ak sealed the deal for me. Some of those owned receivers like the 1280, 1980, 2500, g22000, 33000 etc. The universal impression over there was when it came to receivers, it was the 500c and then everything else.
  
 I was pretty shocked the first time I fired mine up. Although I read  that it didn't sound like a prototypical tube amp, I was shocked at what I heard. Or what I didn't hear. There's no warmth what so ever. Infact it's more neutral than both 1280 I've owned. You would never believe it was a tube amp upon first listen. The only thing I had owned at the time that was as neutral was the ka907. It had none of the euphoric character I would associate with the x100 series, and gone was the tubby bass, and slightly rolled  highs. This thing had more air than anything I had listened to except for the ka907 which was nearly equal in that department.
  
 Great extension at both ends, bass as tight as most higher end solid state amps, and transparency exceeding most higher end solid state amps I've heard. Everything I heard would be associated with high end solid state amps than tube amps. But upon further listening, you began to hear qualities associated with tube gear. Although completely neutral, the vocals have just a really nice organic richness to them, but minus the added warmth. The sound stage was very holographic with equally great depth and width. the imaging was very tight and  precise. It's like taking all of the advantages of solid state and tubes and combining them into one.
  
 With all of the gear I've owned I can whole heartly say it's been the 500c and everything else. Now as of this writing, my mcintosh rig is coming very close. But then again, you're talking about mcintosh separates vs a tube receiver. I expect the mac rig to at least equal it if not surpass it once it gets restored. The only negative I would have about it really isn't a negative but a precaution. This thing is so brutally revealing, it will highlight ever flaw in a recording. It may be one of the most unforgiving amps I've come across. But at the same time, good recordings will reward you in audiophile heaven. I can't say enough how much I enjoy this receiver.
  
 This is not to sell receivers like the sx1280, g9000 etc short. They all are absolutely wonderful. And compare favorably to totl solid state amps of today. Imo you would have to spend thousands to surpass them. I loved them all, just read my impressions of them. Everything I've said about each one, I still stand by today. But the 500c is just special.


----------



## MattTCG

Great impression Moody!! Thank you kindly for those...


----------



## ssrock64

There's an unrestored 500C for sale at the place I bought my old SX780 in lower Alabama; if anybody's in the region and wants some more info you can PM me and I'll take a trip to the shop to check it out more toroughly. I don't think it coulld be more than a couple hundred bucks.


----------



## moodyrn

If that's the case run and don't walk. I've seen parts repair units going for hundreds. If it works and only cost a couple of hundred bucks, it wouldn't matter for me if it was restored or not. That would be a steel.
  
 @Matt....oh and of course if you're ever in the area,  you're more than welcome to stop by and take a listen.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> If that's the case run and don't walk. I've seen parts repair units going for hundreds. If it works and only cost a couple of hundred bucks, it wouldn't matter for me if it was restored or not. That would be a steel.
> 
> @Matt....oh and of course if you're ever in the area,  you're more than welcome to stop by and take a listen.


 
  
 I will confess to not having heard one, but the Stereophile review and Moody's comments put me over the edge.  Carefully checking CL and Estate sales every day.   The Ebay prices are crazy.


----------



## Silent One

ssrock64 said:


> There's an unrestored 500C for sale at the place I bought my old SX780 in lower Alabama; if anybody's in the region and wants some more info you can PM me and I'll take a trip to the shop to check it out more toroughly. I don't think it coulld be more than a couple hundred bucks.


 
  
 Although, I'm set... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 let's have a look, shall we?


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> matttcg said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the advice Rob. I have heard you mention this before. It's funny how selective my memory can be when it comes to upgrades. I see some shinny steel and sha-bam...memory goes right out the window.
> ...


 
  
 You just nailed what my little green ones sound like (Shindo Laboratory). These qualities are at once strange and interesting for a tube amp. Something that must be heard. Especially for thousands of dollars less.


----------



## moodyrn

You know, that so something I've read about many high end tube amps. The most expensive one I've listened to was a 5000.00 audio research. And as good as it sounded, it wasn't neutral. It had all of the traits of the 500c, but did sound a bit warm overall. But from what I've read about some tube amps such as the leben, for example, they don't sound "tubey" at all.


----------



## ssrock64

I had a couple PMs about the 500C, so I feel the need to mention that I'll be out of town for the next week and can't do an inspection on anyone's behalf. The unit wasn't officially for sale yet, but he mentioned it to me the last time I was there (~2 weeks ago) and it was under a table in the shop. It could be on display by now, but if it's not you could ask about it anyways.
  
 If you want contact info for the store, you can PM me, but you'll only be able to get through on Tuesday-Saturday and he might not even be open next week because of the holidays.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> You know, that so something I've read about many high end tube amps. The most expensive one I've listened to was a 5000.00 audio research. And as good as it sounded, it wasn't neutral. It had all of the traits of the 500c, but did sound a bit warm overall. But from what I've read about some tube amps such as the leben, for example, they don't sound "tubey" at all.


 
  
 Mine don't sound "tubey" at all either. Sounds immediate and then unfolds audio goodness from there. I just called Alabama tracking that potential Fisher. It's a Fisher 250 SS. I will say that I've never heard the '500C' before and in only the past two years easily came across a handful for sale or more at decent prices.
  
 Like many valuable things in life, I did not know the '500C's' value and never gave the listings any consideration. Upon reading your review, I'm quietly looking now...


----------



## MattTCG

ssrock64 said:


> I had a couple PMs about the 500C, so I feel the need to mention that I'll be out of town for the next week and can't do an inspection on anyone's behalf. The unit wasn't officially for sale yet, but he mentioned it to me the last time I was there (~2 weeks ago) and it was under a table in the shop. It could be on display by now, but if it's not you could ask about it anyways.
> 
> If you want contact info for the store, you can PM me, but you'll only be able to get through on Tuesday-Saturday and he might not even be open next week because of the holidays.


 
  
 The guy has no 500c. Called and confirmed.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I called also and he told me it was a 250 ss. He does get stuff in like that from time to time. He's less than two hours from my home town in south MS, so that's I drive I can make when ever I go see my parents. So I will definitely add that place to my list.


----------



## Silent One

We're an active bunch!


----------



## ssrock64

Yep, I'll Have To explain All Those out-of-state Calls To Him The Next Time I'm There. I'm Sorry I misled!

Also, I Blame My Phone If This Post Exhibits Random Capitalization.


----------



## moodyrn

No need to apologize. The mere possibility of a working 500c for anywhere near that price was more than enough to make a 2min phone call worth it. And in the process I found a potential vintage dealer who routinely get vintage goodies in. And the fact it turned out not be a 500c saved some of us from a dangerous game of death race.


----------



## Skylab

It's interesting that the 500c isn't so tubey, as the Fisher tube stuff I had was very tubey. Glorious, but very tubey. Great description you wrote up though Moody. That was very interesting! And yeah, you're right, the Leben amp I have really isn't that tubey either. It's a bit warm, and very "organic" sounding, but not tubey in the way my KX-100 was. But I enjoyed them both, in spite of the fact that I am mostly using high end vintage solid state these days. 

Lots of great ways to have sonic bliss!!!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Mine don't sound "tubey" at all either. Sounds immediate and then unfolds audio goodness from there.


 
 The best tube amps aren't 'tubey'. That extra richness they provide is subtle and not distracting from the source.
 Your greenies are 'inspired' by the Marantz Model 2 which pre-dates the 500C.
 I find these older amps/receivers were designed sound good, not "tubey" and they do....


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> It's interesting that the 500c isn't so tubey, as the Fisher tube stuff I had was very tubey. Glorious, but very tubey. Great description you wrote up though Moody. That was very interesting! And yeah, you're right, the Leben amp I have really isn't that tubey either. It's a bit warm, and very "organic" sounding, but not tubey in the way my KX-100 was. But I enjoyed them both, in spite of the fact that I am mostly using high end vintage solid state these days.
> 
> Lots of great ways to have sonic bliss!!!




The sound of the 500c is a real eye opener. I never had much interest in the past because I thought that it may be just a little better sounding x100c. The fishers we both had are the same internally and the only difference was the face plate basically. So we both shared similar impressions on how each sounded. The 500c sounds completely different. They don't even sound like they come from the same manufacturer. But I did really enjoy the x100c. It was a very different flavor from my other vintage gear. 

But your right though lots of ways to achieve sonic bliss. I'm not a tube guy nor a solid state guy(I am a vintage guy for apparent reasons lol). I love experimenting with every single path to achieve it and have achieved it with both slid state and tube gear.


----------



## Skylab

There is a gorgeous, fully restored 500c on eBay right now, but it's priced accordingly...


----------



## moodyrn

Wow!!  Every time I see one of those restored 500c's I feel more fortunate to have the one I have. The person who done mine was even more higher regarded than the fisher doctor for restoring them. And sadly he passed away over a year ago. My internals looks better than the one on ebay that sitting at 2200.00. And mine also don't have a scratch on it. The only flaws are in the cabinet that I'm going to replace as soon as a mint one come across ebay.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> The best tube amps aren't 'tubey'. That extra richness they provide is subtle and not distracting from the source.
> Your greenies are 'inspired' by the Marantz Model 2 which pre-dates the 500C.
> I find these older amps/receivers were designed sound good, not "tubey" and they do....


 
  
 I love the way they engage me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... and proceed entertaining. No screaming traits _"Listen to me... _



_I'm over here!" _Rather, the presentation can be deceptively and deliciously alluring.


----------



## Argybargy

What a coincidence. Santa is bringing me an 800C. It's currently enroute. Will post pix and impressions when it gets in on Thurs.


----------



## MattTCG

Great score!! Can you put in a good word for me? I'm expecting squat for xmas.


----------



## Argybargy




----------



## Frank18944

it looks like I'm allowed to upload pictures now but a dialog box asks me for a url. What the hec does that mean? Does this mean I can't just upload jpegs from a folder on my hard drive?


----------



## Silent One

You should be good to go @ 10!


----------



## Frank18944

Yes, I know that one but my question is - when I click on the "insert image" icon on my post a dialog box comes up asking me for a url. I have two jpeg files (pictures) to up-load and there seems to be no way to point to their location on my hard drive. So what does that dialog box asking for a url mean???


----------



## kenshinhimura

frank18944 said:


> Yes, I know that one but my question is - when I click on the "insert image" icon on my post a dialog box comes up asking me for a url. I have two jpeg files (pictures) to up-load and there seems to be no way to point to their location on my hard drive. So what does that dialog box asking for a url mean???


 
  
 click upload file on top


----------



## Frank18944

I don't see anything that says "upload file".............on top of what??  There's an icon that says "insert image" on top of this reply window but I don't see anything that says "upload file"
  
 Sorry, I must be blind


----------



## LugBug1

frank18944 said:


> I don't see anything that says "upload file".............on top of what??  There's an icon that says "insert image" on top of this reply window but I don't see anything that says "upload file"
> 
> Sorry, I must be blind


 
 Click on "insert image" icon. When the little screen pops up there should be a grey box in the top left hand corner with "upload files" inside. Click on that box and you can browse through your hard drive for pics. Choose a file/pic and then  click "open" at the bottom. You'll have the option of 3 different sizes. Choose the largest one and then click upload.


----------



## Frank18944

Wow, that worked - thank you LugBug. The first picture is the Marantz 2250B RCVR that I'm restoring. It's a work in progress right now. But even as it stands the headphone audio is excellent. There's no dedicated HP amp inside, just resistor coupling from the output of the power amps to the headphone jack so you hear the entire audio chain.

  
 The picture below is of my favorite restoration - a vintage early 70's Sansui 5000A rcvr. When it first came out I lusted after it for a year before I saved up enough money to buy one. It was my start on the path to high end audio. I remember the day I sold it back in the early 90's and regretted it ever since. So thanks to ebay I have one again. This one is complete with the exception of some mods I want to do on the power amp boards. When I converted the incandescent display lighting to LED's I used about 20 high flux pure white LED's in total. I really wanted to light it up since the stock lighting was pretty dim. For both rcvr's I designed adjustable regulated supplies for the LEDs so I can vary the intensity with an internal adjustment. The topology for headphone output is same as the Marantz - resistor coupling from output of the power amps to headphone jacks. Even though the Sansui is my favorite rcvr, the HP audio, to me, isn't as transparent as the Marantz. I attribute this one to the difference in FM tuner and Stereo multiplex decoders between the two rcvr's. I've only listened to FM audio, have not yet run any higher resolution sources through either radio yet.
  

  
 So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 All the best,
 Frank
 (ARS W3MEE)


----------



## parbaked

frank18944 said:


> So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it


 
  
 Your Sansui is especially nice Frank.
 Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Silent One

frank18944 said:


> So that's my story and I'm stickin' to it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Very nice pix. Thanks for not giving up and sharing...


----------



## parbaked

argybargy said:


> Santa is bringing me an 800C.


 
 What...there's no way you were as good as me this year!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'm going to have words with Santa if he shows up...


----------



## petemac110

kstuart said:


> So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).
> 
> He received it and he reports that it was a broken solder joint.  When he re-soldered the joint, the distortion went away.  He readjusted the DC offset and bias and has shipped it back to me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi mate,
  
 I'm not sure whether you would have heard this news or not, but Butch (the gent who restored your amp) sadly passed away about a month ago.
  
 Please continue to enjoy your amp, knowing that you're listening to a piece of gear that was lovingly worked on by a true gentleman and vintage audio enthusiast


----------



## parbaked

Well said!


----------



## gikigill

Any opinions on a Sansui QRX-6500 vs an AU-2900?


----------



## kstuart

petemac110 said:


> kstuart said:
> 
> 
> > So it turns out that my recapped Sansui AU-417 had distortion in the right channel.  I contacted the seller, and he had me try Deoxit (and I also did a DC offset check), but no joy.  So, he had me send it back to him (it turns out that he does the recapping & glue cleanup himself as a hobby - his feedback is full of various AU-x17 amps).
> ...


 

 Thanks for the info.  I will remember him when I listen to the Sansui.  (BTW, I am behind on this thread and hope to catch up after the holidays.)


----------



## PhoenixG

It seems like things have been slipping away from me all weekend. I almost got a 500c, but the seller gave it to a buddy last minute. I'm on to something else now, but I'm hoping for better luck. The hunt continues...


----------



## LugBug1

frank18944 said:


> Wow, that worked - thank you LugBug. The first picture is the Marantz 2250B RCVR that I'm restoring. It's a work in progress right now. But even as it stands the headphone audio is excellent. There's no dedicated HP amp inside, just resistor coupling from the output of the power amps to the headphone jack so you hear the entire audio chain.
> 
> 
> The picture below is of my favorite restoration - a vintage early 70's Sansui 5000A rcvr. When it first came out I lusted after it for a year before I saved up enough money to buy one. It was my start on the path to high end audio. I remember the day I sold it back in the early 90's and regretted it ever since. So thanks to ebay I have one again. This one is complete with the exception of some mods I want to do on the power amp boards. When I converted the incandescent display lighting to LED's I used about 20 high flux pure white LED's in total. I really wanted to light it up since the stock lighting was pretty dim. For both rcvr's I designed adjustable regulated supplies for the LEDs so I can vary the intensity with an internal adjustment. The topology for headphone output is same as the Marantz - resistor coupling from output of the power amps to headphone jacks. Even though the Sansui is my favorite rcvr, the HP audio, to me, isn't as transparent as the Marantz. I attribute this one to the difference in FM tuner and Stereo multiplex decoders between the two rcvr's. I've only listened to FM audio, have not yet run any higher resolution sources through either radio yet.
> ...


 
 Two gorgeous amps there buddy. You can tell that they are your pride and joy - immaculate condition.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I did manage to land this (Sherwood 7200) a couple of days ago.  Sounds very nice.  Approximately 40WPC with a very clean powerful sound.  Have recapped the PS and it needs a new volume control as it is has unevenness in the channels that Deoxit won't fix.  Love these old Sherwoods:


----------



## petemac110

speakerbox said:


> I did manage to land this (Sherwood 7200) a couple of days ago.  Sounds very nice.  Approximately 40WPC with a very clean powerful sound.  Have recapped the PS and it needs a new volume control as it is has unevenness in the channels that Deoxit won't fix.  Love these old Sherwoods:


 
  
 Niiiice... my father has a few Sherwoods, including the S7210 and a larger 60WPC model. They both sound great!
  


gikigill said:


> Any opinions on a Sansui QRX-6500 vs an AU-2900?


 
  
 I'd be inclined to go for the QRX-6500. We have one in our Sansui collection. It's a more sophisticated amp design with more grunt. It is, however, a quadrophonic 4 channel amp, so you won't be utilising all channels for normal stereo listening or headphone use. I'm assuming that's the 6500 on Aus ebay at present?
  
 The AU-2900, 3900 and 4900 are all nice sounding amps too. The 2900 is the baby of the bunch.


----------



## gikigill

Yup, that's the one. Might go for a 777 too. 
Btw got one of those Sherwood 7110s,a deceptively powerful amp. Powers speakers it has no business powering and the bass can rumble windows without a hint of stress. A hidden gem with plenty of headroom.


----------



## petemac110

gikigill said:


> Yup, that's the one. Might go for a 777 too.
> Btw got one of those Sherwood 7110s,a deceptively powerful amp. Powers speakers it has no business powering and the bass can rumble windows without a hint of stress. A hidden gem with plenty of headroom.


 
  
 Cool. The AU-777 is a very nice amp indeed.
  
 One thing to consider is that the volume knob will require a bit of a tweak to get a decent volume level out of the amp. The buying public, at the time, perceived this as being a short-coming in several Sansui amps when compared back-to-back with competing amps (because competitors got louder with an equivalent turn of the volume knob, they thought they were more powerful). The 777A addressed this issue with a revised volume circuit. It's not an issue as such, but worth noting.


----------



## LugBug1

_Seasons Greetings to all my lovely vintage chums. _
  
_May this coming year bring many more shiny machines, wif lots of knobs and lights etc  _


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Argybargy

Who needs Christmas lights when you've got a Marantz! 

Merry Christmas to all!


----------



## scottosan

I've bought a Marantz 2252b and a 2238b within the past week.  Truly a musical line of vintage receivers


----------



## SpeakerBox

gikigill said:


> Yup, that's the one. Might go for a 777 too.
> Btw got one of those Sherwood 7110s,a deceptively powerful amp. Powers speakers it has no business powering and the bass can rumble windows without a hint of stress. A hidden gem with plenty of headroom.


 
  
 This has been my experience with everyone of the old "S" series Sherwood receivers I have heard.  Had a 7110B for a while and it sounded excellent.  Right now I have the 7200 and a tricked out 7100A on the night stand for HP listenting.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats everyone on your recent purchases. All of those are some good looking receivers. Love to see Sherwood getting some love. That's a very good brand that don't get discussed enough. They made some nice tube gear also. Merry Christmas to you all!!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Oregonian

Merry Xmas to the gents on the best thread on Head Fi!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, Merry Christmas to all my fellow vintage lovers!!!!!


----------



## calipilot227

I'm out of town, but this will be waiting for me at my apartment when I return.
  

  
 I really need to stop buying vintage receivers, haha.
  
 (Realistic STA-2000D)


----------



## moodyrn

Very nice find and yet another under-rated brand.


----------



## gikigill

Merry Christmas to my fellow vintage enthusiasts.


----------



## calipilot227

moodyrn said:


> Very nice find and yet another under-rated brand.


 
  
 Yeah, it seems to be well liked on AudioKarma, and I was curious as to how it would sound with my Mach Ones (since they were sold together, I believe).
  
 Anyway, hope everyone has a great holiday. Be sure to play some tunes on the vintage irons we all know and love


----------



## Silent One

Congrats! calipilot227 and same to you. I was gettin' reacquainted with the big 'G' till sunrise this morning.


----------



## moodyrn

After a few blissful days with the mac rig, I'm spending the rest of Christmas eve listening to fm on my fisher...oh and I guess my wife too.


----------



## Silent One

_thats' very special, moodyrn..._


----------



## MIKELAP

Merry Christmas everybody !


----------



## DemonFox

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all! 

Enjoy the day


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## Argybargy

*Fisher 800c*
  
  

  
 What an amazingly modern sound coming from early 1970s technology.  The 800c is identical to the 500c but with the added AM section.  This unit is in excellent shape with the original walnut case and RCA 7951A outputs. The other tubes are a mix of original The Fisher W Germans and vintage replacements and 2 JJ ECC83s.
  
 The previous owner had already performed a basic restoration but a few more mods will be done:
 Thermistor
 Change grid resistors to 220k
 Screen resistor mod
 Restuff the can caps
 IBAM: individual biasing of output tubes
 Replace the Sonicap coupling caps with either FT3 Teflon or a combo of K75 Hybrid PIO/K72 Teflon
  
  

  

  
 Unfortunately when I first fired it up, there was no sound from the left channel.  I thought the input selector might need some deoxit so flipped it over and right near one of the tabs was a yellow wire completely detached from anything.  As usual the folks over at AK were indispensable in locating the right tab to solder the loose wire to.  Must have been quite a few potholes on the trip from Wisconsin.
  
 If I closed my eyes I wouldn't be able to tell that I'm listening to a tube amp.  What I'm hearing is hi-fidelity in the truest sense.  The bass is extended, clean and tight with no intrusion into the mids.  The treble is nicely textured and contributes to a big soundstage.  Height and  width are both excellent, but it really separates itself from a typical high end sound with depth and layering.
 The Pioneer SX-1250 is warmer and has more raw power, but can't compete with the 800c's elegantly nuanced sound.
 My Marantz 2270 is rebuilt with all of the resistors in the power, amp and preamp boards replaced with 1% metal films.  It's similarly neutral as the 800c but with its fast, aggressive presentation, edges out the 800c in PRAT, but again the 800c's life-like soundstage wins out ultimately.
  
 This one's a keeper for sure.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## moodyrn

Congrats, sounds a lot like some of my impressions of the 500c lol. It's amazing something that old with that many tubes don't sound like a tube amp at all. But then you notice the texture, depth, and sound staging qualities that really great tube amps are known for. Like I said previously, it's like all of the tube and solid state strengths without none of their weakness. But if you think it sounds great now, just wait until you get that baby completely restored. Then you are really in for a treat. That's going to be a very fun journey. 
  
 My rebuilt 500c is end game for me. Not just speaking of vintage, but end game period(but my macs are giving it a real run for it's money)


----------



## SpeakerBox

argybargy said:


> This one's a keeper for sure.


 
  
 Looks very clean too!


----------



## Argybargy

moodyrn said:


> Congrats, sounds a lot like some of my impressions of the 500c lol. It's amazing something that old with that many tubes don't sound like a tube amp at all. But then you notice the texture, depth, and sound staging qualities that really great tube amps are known for. Like I said previously, it's like all of the tube and solid state strengths without none of their weakness. But if you think it sounds great now, just wait until you get that baby completely restored. Then you are really in for a treat. That's going to be a very fun journey.
> 
> My rebuilt 500c is end game for me. Not just speaking of vintage, but end game period(but my macs are giving it a real run for it's money)


 
  
 After hearing you and Rob, rave about your Fishers as well as the speaker guys on AK, I knew I would have to try one eventually.  It was a tough call choosing between the 500c, 800c and 400.


----------



## moodyrn

Good call dodging the 400. Not that it's not excellent. But it is to the x100 series what the 500c is the the x200 series. It's very warm and euphoric sounding. That signature does have many fans with myself being one of them, but it's not in the same league as the other fisher receivers. Also, good call dodging the B series. The B and C are very different sounding.


----------



## Argybargy

Right. In the end it was really only a choice between the 500c and 800c with a big preference for the small lettering version for the dial glass.
LED upgrade is probably also in the future. The stock incandescents look a little dim.


----------



## moodyrn

I've been thinking the same thing since I have some LEDs left over from my mac conversion.


----------



## Silent One

Someone is pushin' a 500c just down the highway from me. Posted 2 months ago. She/He won't ship - local pick-up only. Though, I could drive down and investigate I suppose if one of our own here were seriously interested.
  
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/4158072599.html


----------



## moodyrn

Wow! Original box, manual, and cosmetically mint too? Although it hadn't been restored, that 700.00 price isn't too bad. That cabinet looks new almost and would fetch a few hundred by itself. A good refurb job, and that thing will easily fetch 2500 on ebay.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Wow! Original box, manual, and cosmetically mint too? Although it hadn't been restored, that 700.00 price isn't too bad. That cabinet looks new almost and would fetch a few hundred by itself. A good refurb job, and that thing will easily fetch 2500 on ebay.


 
  
 I thought about it overnight - eventually fell asleep without drawing any conclusion. Only because I don't know what's fair market value. Your reply gives me something to work with. This amp could prove a worthy backup. 
  
 If someone were to break-in and take all the slick & shiny stuff, the 500-C would likely get left behind and I could still have quality listening sessions.


----------



## sluker

I have been away from Head-fi for some time now. But coming back to this thread lt's like nothing changed for the last 30 years.
 I was actually considering selling my vintage rig ( sx1250 restored and serviced by Howard at Audio Specialist and matching HPM 100's recapped by me). But then we recently moved into a place with a better sounding space and I am now hesitating. its amazing how much the room makes a difference with speakers (but you all know that) I guess that is why I like headphones so much.


----------



## Silent One

Looking good sluker!





 
  
 You're just the cat I've been meaning to chat with!!! I need "Greater L.A." audio repair connections for future work done. I see your cat is in Studio City. I'm looking for a good shop on either side the 405 between Santa Monica & Long Beach (all the communities in between).
  
 Like Turntable repair/maintenance work, vintage receivers and so on.


----------



## LugBug1

sluker said:


>


 
 Lovely! If it wasn't for the tiny ipod, that pic could have been from 35 years ago.


----------



## MattTCG

Yes, nice shots and setup sluker!! You are certainly right about the space and room acoustics. My room situation in simple terms...it's awful. That's why I end up using my hp's most of the time. But one day I'll be in a better place where I'll have the ultimate mancave and listening area. Finished basement is the way to go.


----------



## pytter

Oh man! I cannot believe I have not run into this thread until now! That has taken care of what to do at my inlaws over Christmas! Up to p123 lol. I see soem difficult conversations coming up with my wife thanks to you lot! 

Wishing you a prosperous 2014 (so we can all buy more head-fi stuff of course!)


----------



## Silent One

pytter said:


> Oh man! I cannot believe I have not run into this thread until now! That has taken care of what to do at my inlaws over Christmas! Up to p123 lol. I see soem difficult conversations coming up with my wife thanks to you lot!
> 
> Wishing you a prosperous 2014 (so we can all buy more head-fi stuff of course!)


 





 Wait... how difficult can the conversation be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 if you show her photographs of vintage lovelies?


----------



## PhoenixG

I have this guy in the mail and I am horrendously excited.


----------



## azrussell132

phoenixg said:


> I have this guy in the mail and I am horrendously excited.


 
 That looks really nice.  Can't wait to hear your opinion.  Have yet to own a Sony of any vintage.


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> I have this guy in the mail and I am horrendously excited.


 
  
 So excited, you forgot 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to leave us the tracking number so we can watch!


----------



## Silent One

Polarity question.:  
  
 My Sansui's a/c power cord 2-prong has a white stripe on one of the leads. What's the correct plug-in orientation?


----------



## PhoenixG

I suppose I can do some tracking info, but it won't be in the mail until after new years. It apparently keeps blowing output fuses, so it is getting mailed straight to my tech friend.
Regarding old Sony's, I am a BIG fan of their ES series and this is supposed to be the best one they've made.
I guess we'll find out haha.


----------



## PhoenixG

silent one said:


> Polarity question.:
> 
> My Sansui's a/c power cord 2-prong has a white stripe on one of the leads. What's the correct plug-in orienta
> tion?




If it is the original cord, it is omnipolar if both spades are the same size. If it isn't the original cord, you have to check to see if the rectifier circuit has any polar caps before you can assume omnipolar.
If the spades are different and it is original, it should only go in one way. If you're not talking 120v, you're on yyour own.


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> If it is the original cord, it is omnipolar if both spades are the same size. If it isn't the original cord, you have to check to see if the rectifier circuit has any polar caps before you can assume omnipolar.
> If the spades are different and it is original, it should only go in one way. If you're not talking 120v, you're on yyour own.


 
  
 Original cord; White stripe only on one side; both spades are same size/shape. Plays both ways but I would like to know which way is optimal.


----------



## Frank18944

My Sansui 5000A is the same way. They float both sides of the AC line input above ground. I would like to rewire it for a 3 prong plug but it's not an easy job because of the aux AC out chassis sockets for other equipment. To make things even worse Sansui wired the AC outlets reverse of what they should be.
  
 To your question -  The convention is that the "ribbed" wire in the Sansui's ac cord should plug into the ground side (wide) pin on the ac  outlet.  If you have a digital voltmeter - DVM - put it on its lowest AC scale and measure the voltage from the chassis of your Sansui to the ground side of your AC outlet and note the reading. Reverse the Sansui's plug in the outlet and re-measure. Use the orientation that gives you the lowest reading. 
  
 All the best,
 Frank
 W3MEE
  
 PS - how the hec do you get this thread (or any threads on the forum) to begin with the most recent post so you don't need to go through many pages to get to the most recent?


----------



## Oregonian

> PS - how the hec do you get this thread (or any threads on the forum) to begin with the most recent post so you don't need to go through many pages to get to the most recent?




Once you reply to a thread, it then shows up for you in bold on your main profile page. From there click the bolded thread title and it should always feed you starting at the most recent post. 

I've found if you click on the Subscription button and access threads that way it does NOT go to the most recent post. Wish it did as that would be a great way to catch up on your favorite threads.


----------



## parbaked

frank18944 said:


> PS - how the hec do you get this thread (or any threads on the forum) to begin with the most recent post so you don't need to go through many pages to get to the most recent?


 
 1. Sign in 
 2. Click on 'Subscriptions' tab at top right of page
 3. Click on 'Activities' tab on the subscriptions page
 4. When you click on  thread you should go to the last post.
 5. When you hover over a thread it will also display two options: 'first post' and 'last post' which you can click.


----------



## parbaked

> I've found if you click on the Subscription button and access threads that way it does NOT go to the most recent post. Wish it did as that would be a great way to catch up on your favorite threads.


 
 Interesting, when I click the title of any thread in 'My Subscriptions" I always get sent to the most recent post that I have not read.
 Works the same on my iPhone and iPad as well and all three are synched. I never get sent to the first post unless it is a new post that I am not subscribed to...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Polarity question.:
> 
> My Sansui's a/c power cord 2-prong has a white stripe on one of the leads. What's the correct plug-in orientation?


 
 I love that these monster receivers use lamp cord for power cables...


----------



## kenshinhimura

parbaked said:


> Interesting, when I click the title of any thread in 'My Subscriptions" I always get sent to the most recent post that I have not read.
> Works the same on my iPhone and iPad as well and all three are synched. I never get sent to the first post unless it is a new post that I am not subscribed to...


 

 +1


----------



## randerson07

Most all forums have a 1st unread post button. I typically always use that.
  
 I also setup auto emails for all new posts to subscribed threads, and those emails typically have a 1st unread post link.


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I love that these monster receivers use lamp cord for power cables...


 
  
 Same with the little green ones...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> Same with the little green ones...


 
 I respectfully disagree, those are more like something from an early Playstation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
 A huge upgrade from lamp cord, but then those greenies deserve the best!


----------



## harrinj

parbaked said:


> I respectfully disagree, those are more like something from an early Playstation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What's wrong with lamp cord? you can re-cord them.


----------



## parbaked

harrinj said:


> What's wrong with lamp cord? you can re-cord them.


 
 Nothing...all my lamps (and vintage gear) have 'em!


----------



## harrinj

parbaked said:


> Nothing...all my lamps (and vintage gear) have 'em!


 
 

 They are better than the chinese crap cords today's plastic crap comes with.


----------



## Frank18944

thanks for the advice on getting to the most resent post. The answer is that although I enjoy this forum it's worse than the Yahoo groups navigation since Yahoo changed it. This one is just too damn clumsy and complicated for my demented mind.
  
 Frank
 W3MEE


----------



## Frank18944

Both my Sansui 5000A which is a 55 W/ch receiver and my Marantz 2250B Rcvr which is 70 W/Ch use zip cord. Conversion to three wire cords requires more than just unsoldering, re-soldering - it requires some sheet metal work. Now there's nothing wrong with that if you don't plan on selling the vintage gear as "vintage" but some collectors might disagree with the modification.
  
 I will eventually get around to converting both rcvrs to three wire with the green wire to chassis but just might run into hum or ground loop problems. That one is a real rats nest. I've struggled with getting rid of occasional hum and ground loops for so many years and spent so much time on these problems that I should be a damn expert by now. Unfortunately, it doesn't work out that way and every hum problem I have ever had is either as simple as adding a 3 wire to two wire AC adapter to the other extreme of changing internal wiring on the equipment. The good thing for me is that these problems are "thinking and light work" problems which are the ones I deal with best.
  
 73's
 Frank
 W3MEE


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> They are better than the* chinese crap cords* today's plastic crap comes with.


----------



## parbaked

lugbug1 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 I get a rash just looking at those ^


----------



## harrinj

Here's the McIntosh amps at the place in Walla Walla, WA. I won't go into here again. Insane prices and the place stinks really bad! Again they probably want a large pot of gold for any of those. 

I don't know if the picture is actually embedding because sprint sucks. I've tried three times. If it hasn't I'll post it when I get home.


----------



## Trav

phoenixg said:


> I have this guy in the mail and I am horrendously excited. 6060FW?


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> I respectfully disagree, those are more like something from an early Playstation
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 True. It's just that the contrast between them and my Wireworld power cords...


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> True. It's just that the contrast between them and my Wireworld power cords...


 
 Yes, I knew YOU would get it!


----------



## PhoenixG

Trav, it's. A Sony str-6120. I hope it is as good as they say.


----------



## Trav

I thought the 6120 had the lid that you lifted over the switches? Can't wait to hear your review.


----------



## ssrock64

harrinj said:


> Here's the McIntosh amps at the place in Walla Walla, WA. I won't go into here again. Insane prices and the place stinks really bad! Again they probably want a large pot of gold for any of those.
> 
> I don't know if the picture is actually embedding because sprint sucks. I've tried three times. If it hasn't I'll post it when I get home.


 
 Walla Walla is full of new money who will pay anything for vintage chic pieces, and Hot Poop has quite the reputation for price gouging. I'm not surprised.


----------



## harrinj

ssrock64 said:


> Walla Walla is full of new money who will pay anything for vintage chic pieces, and Hot Poop has quite the reputation for price gouging. I'm not surprised.




Yes and its a very hipster infested downtown where it is so that helps to inflate the prices... I did buy The Division Bell LP in there for $200 original pale blue unused a few months ago but I'll never buy anything there again and it STINKS in there to the high heavens. (I cannot believe somebody paid $90 for PF The Wall there since it was gone this time I saw during my visit today...) The place is just insanely overpriced its shocking to say the least but music stores in hipster areas do this. Its just like music coop in Ashland, OR another hipster place for example wanted $250 for a not so good looking copy of PF MFSL DSOTM LP its just nuts! I got my MFSL DSOTM LP for under $100. 

Anyways to not drift the thread, the vintage Tube McIntosh amps in there look cool though. I can't get the picture to embed so I'll have to try on PC later.


----------



## LugBug1

ssrock64 said:


> Hot Poop


 
  
  


harrinj said:


> the place stinks really bad!


 
 Erm...


----------



## SpeakerBox

frank18944 said:


> Both my Sansui 5000A which is a 55 W/ch receiver and my Marantz 2250B Rcvr which is 70 W/Ch use zip cord. Conversion to three wire cords requires more than just unsoldering, re-soldering - it requires some sheet metal work. Now there's nothing wrong with that if you don't plan on selling the vintage gear as "vintage" but some collectors might disagree with the modification.
> 
> I will eventually get around to converting both rcvrs to three wire with the green wire to chassis but just might run into hum or ground loop problems. That one is a real rats nest. I've struggled with getting rid of occasional hum and ground loops for so many years and spent so much time on these problems that I should be a damn expert by now. Unfortunately, it doesn't work out that way and every hum problem I have ever had is either as simple as adding a 3 wire to two wire AC adapter to the other extreme of changing internal wiring on the equipment. The good thing for me is that these problems are "thinking and light work" problems which are the ones I deal with best.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, been down the road with the metal work.  I installed IEC inlets on two vintage pieces.  First a Kenwood KT-7550 tuner which sits in my main rig.  I also did the conversion on a Sherwood S-7300.  Both came out very nice.  I use a metal nibbler to do the the sheet metal work.  It just removes very small amounts at each "nibble" so you can fine tune.   I use a Pangea AC-14SE cord on my Kenwood now.  Decided to sell the 7300.


----------



## Frank18944

nice work - I use a nibbling tool as well. They even work on the thicker steel chassis if I take smaller bit off at a shot.
  
 You're post is giving me some incentive to do my Sansui once I get my new headphone/line driver completed - too many projects here and not enough time 
  
 73's
 Frank
 W3MEE


----------



## palmfish

harrinj said:


> I got my MFSL DSOTM LP for under $100.


 
 I paid $14 for mine new in shrink wrap 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 (Of course, that was over 30 years ago...)


----------



## Skylab

I still have my original MFSL DSOTM LP too  And I play it often still !


----------



## sidrpm

As our vintage gear grows another calendar year older, here's wishing everyone a Happy New Year.


----------



## SpeakerBox

sidrpm said:


> As our vintage gear grows another calendar year older, here's wishing everyone a Happy New Year.


 
  
 Yes, happy new year to all!


----------



## LugBug1

Happy new year folks!
  
 Glass of Scotch in hand and Sansui nicely warmed up. I'm gonna join my family in a mo, but just enjoying a little peace (Branford Marsalis style) before the party starts


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Erm...




Hahaha


----------



## MattTCG

I'm hoping to get a call from Terry who is doing the restoration on my sx1280. I'd love to drive up to TN and pick it up before I have to get back to work. 
  
 Happy new year everyone!!


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> I'm hoping to get a call from Terry who is doing the restoration on my sx1280. I'd love to drive up to TN and pick it up before I have to get back to work.
> 
> Happy new year everyone!!


 
  
 Now, if you return from TN with an unmarked barrel and no Pioneer in sight, I'll 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 keep silent... "Happy New Year!" to you and yours.


----------



## Silent One

sidrpm said:


> As our vintage gear grows another calendar year older, here's wishing everyone a Happy New Year.


 
  
 A lovely description, sidrpm. Let's celebrate the years 2014 and.... 1978!!!




  
 - Team Sansui


----------



## Trav

Happy New Year to my "vintage friends".


----------



## LugBug1

1st pic of the year! I've fallen for the NAD sound... It's very classic Sansui like- warm and detailed without any aggression. Anyhow picked this 80's 7130 receiver up for not very many pennies. Lovely tuner and the HP out is fantastic. Perfect for the HD800's. Dead silent and what a luxuriant sound! Unfortunately, when I was un-boxing and in a hurry to get it out I grabbed the flimsy front fascia and the side broke off in my hands.... I swore very loudly I can tell ye! Luckily I'm a dab hand with a tube of glue and was able to stick it back to together. You can only notice on close inspection.  
  
 I know they look like Hot Poop compared to 70's steel, but I just love their sound.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have a NAD M15 that I like very much.  It was well regarded for its two channel sound even though it is a surround processor.  Hardly vintage though.


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> I have a NAD M15 that I like very much.  It was well regarded for its two channel sound even though it is a surround processor.  Hardly vintage though.


 
 Good stuff. This is my second NAD, I also have a 3020i amp, the last incarnation of the award winning 1979 model. (and just for anyone else who's interested -They are very popular here in the uk and they soon gained a reputation for punching above their price bracket as a no thrills cheaper alternative to the likes of Naim. The early NAD sound is what I'd describe as coloured with a leaning towards warmth (very warm bass) and smoothness through out the FR (very silky). This sound will not be for everyone but feeding an hd800 its perfect to my ears. I wouldn't use one with Audeze or bassy speakers though.


----------



## gikigill

NAD Model 60 coming soon.


----------



## harrinj

Here they are. I'm note sure if they are any good though. But knowing this place that would charge $80 for a beat up Meddle LP and $90 for an average looking The Wall LP, I am sure the prices would be out of this world nuts.


----------



## LugBug1

gikigill said:


> NAD Model 60 coming soon.


 
 Good stuff. Thats one lovely looking NAD, a vintage steel NAD! 
  


harrinj said:


> Here they are. I'm note sure if they are any good though. But knowing this place that would charge $80 for a beat up Meddle LP and $90 for an average looking The Wall LP, I am sure the prices would be out of this world nuts.


 
 Is that inside Hot Poop? Ewww hahah I would maybe ask them how much they are looking for with one of those Mc's and then when they tell you $$$$$$$$$, laugh out loud and say (Jim Carey styley) 're he he eeeaarly?!' and then start to walk out the shop. Once you are at the door, turn around Columbo styley and then say, 'oh, and one more thing.. You may want to invest in an air freshener'. Then proceed to moonwalk Jackson styley out the door. Once out the door, carry on your day as normal


----------



## harrinj

;P yeah. And they have a whole bunch of vintage receivers around the other way but you can't get to them.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I picked this up on Monday.  A 2215 non-B version - built like a tank.  So far I have not been impressed with any Marantz I have had - but this one is different.  In fact it sounds awesome!  Way better than either 2230 I have had.  Detailed, refined, and very punchy.  Was going to referb and resell but now not so sure.  It has a SN less than 5000 which also means it has the engraved face-plate (not champagne just silver).  Not a mark on it either.  No noisiness in the controls.  So far I just recapped the power supply, cleaned the dust out, and replaced a lamp and am enjoying listening to it.


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


>


 
 Thats from 1971 as well. Surprised that it sounds as good as you say. But pleased for you! I've been close to buying one of those on a couple of occasions. Think I might give one ago if the chance comes up again


----------



## SpeakerBox

lugbug1 said:


> Thats from 1971 as well. Surprised that it sounds as good as you say. But pleased for you! I've been close to buying one of those on a couple of occasions. Think I might give one ago if the chance comes up again


 
  
 Thanks much LugBug.  I am surprised too!  But really enjoying it.
  
 By the way - I remember you mentioning that your job was possibly being eliminated.  Did you land on your feet OK?


----------



## parbaked

speakerbox said:


> built like a tank.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like it will isolate your TT from resonance!
 Is that the Sony with the slide out tray so you can stack it?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yup.  A Sony PS-FL1.  Slide out tray is very handy.


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Thanks much LugBug.  I am surprised too!  But really enjoying it.
> 
> By the way - I remember you mentioning that your job was possibly being eliminated.  Did you land on your feet OK?


 
 Still there bud. Basically the press found out about the redundancies before we did (its a big company here in uk). So they had to tell us the next day, otherwise we probably wouldn't have found out until Feb. Its going to be well into this year even possibly spring/summer before they start gradually letting us go. I've put it in the back burner for now because I can't even leave until they tell me, otherwise I'll lose my redundancy money. I'll have been there 10 year this summer. Thanks for asking though


----------



## SpeakerBox

Best of luck, LugBug


----------



## harrinj

speakerbox said:


> I picked this up on Monday.  A 2215 non-B version - built like a tank.  So far I have not been impressed with any Marantz I have had - but this one is different.  In fact it sounds awesome!  Way better than either 2230 I have had.  Detailed, refined, and very punchy.  Was going to referb and resell but now not so sure.  It has a SN less than 5000 which also means it has the engraved face-plate (not champagne just silver).  Not a mark on it either.  No noisiness in the controls.  So far I just recapped the power supply, cleaned the dust out, and replaced a lamp and am enjoying listening to it.




Awesome! I heard the lower wattage marantz sound the best. I love mine to death!!! Of all mine though, the 4270 sounds the best, followed by the 4240, 4400 and then the 2220B. 

There was a mint 4270 with wood case for sale on Portland Craigslist for $300 a couple months ago and I pretty much pleaded with the seller to let me buy it but I have a feeling a certain expensive used audio buisness in Beaverton, OR got to it... If they did they'll put it back up for probably $800 or more :/


----------



## moodyrn

From everything I've read concerning  the best sounding  marantz receiver, opinions have been all over the place. As far as the best goes you will read 2230, 2270, 2265B, 2325 2285B, 2500/2600. But the one that has the most votes of best sounding marantz is the 2285B. But I've also read that marantz sound quality suffers more than most vintage gear when it comes to bad caps. I talked to one person who says a recapped 2325 with modern output transistors is something special. So that may have something to do with with it. I will say that I've owned two 2325s with one being partially restored and the other just having the main filter caps replaced and they both sounded the same. My personal favorite marantz so far has been the 2330B.


----------



## PhoenixG

I took a risk on this setup sight unseen today -  MC752 amp and C26 preamp. The seller didn't know if any of it worked (estate sale flipper type), was unable to hook it up  (not a clue how it went together), and wasn't able to audition it (no speakers, source, or cables). It was a take it or leave it deal and I'm glad I took it. 
 Long story short, the only flaw is an extreme amount of static in the controls and one burnt out bulb. I think a new bulb and some deoxit will make it as good as new. The speakers are XR-14's. At first blush, it seems really lush and crisp. A McIntosh setup is high up on my wish list, and hopefully this one will be a keeper.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> I took a risk on this setup sight unseen today -  MC752 amp and C26 preamp. The seller didn't know if any of it worked (estate sale flipper type), was unable to hook it up  (not a clue how it went together), and wasn't able to audition it (no speakers, source, or cables). It was a take it or leave it deal and I'm glad I took it.
> Long story short, the only flaw is an extreme amount of static in the controls and one burnt out bulb. I think a new bulb and some deoxit will make it as good as new. The speakers are XR-14's. At first blush, it seems really lush and crisp. A McIntosh setup is high up on my wish list, and hopefully this one will be a keeper.


 

 Looks like a score.  What did you pay?  Is the Mac a tube amp?


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> Looks like a score.  What did you pay?  Is the Mac a tube amp?


 
 The 752 isn't a tube amp. It's just a very solid, solid state 75W power amp. I basically paid the price of a parts unit in average condition on each of them. You can find that on ebay if you want haha. I tried to get several tube amps over the holiday, but all were gone as soon as they were put up. Seriously, MC275 (2x) (mega expensive, but were gorgeous and a score level good price), fisher 500c (2x, both gone before I could get to them), and a dynaco unit. All gone near instantly. Madness.
 Oh yeah, and they came with boxes. Crazy.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> The 752 isn't a tube amp. It's just a very solid, solid state 75W power amp. I basically paid the price of a parts unit in average condition on each of them. You can find that on ebay if you want haha. I tried to get several tube amps over the holiday, but all were gone as soon as they were put up. Seriously, MC275 (2x) (mega expensive, but were gorgeous and a score level good price), fisher 500c (2x, both gone before I could get to them), and a dynaco unit. All gone near instantly. Madness.
> Oh yeah, and they came with boxes. Crazy.


 

 Congrats.  I know what it feels like to find a dream setup.  My Spec rack I fell into for $270 and almost didn't make the deal.  Would have been vewwy vewwy sad looking back on that.


----------



## harrinj

phoenixg said:


> The 752 isn't a tube amp. It's just a very solid, solid state 75W power amp. I basically paid the price of a parts unit in average condition on each of them. You can find that on ebay if you want haha. I tried to get several tube amps over the holiday, but all were gone as soon as they were put up. Seriously, MC275 (2x) (mega expensive, but were gorgeous and a score level good price), fisher 500c (2x, both gone before I could get to them), and a dynaco unit. All gone near instantly. Madness.
> Oh yeah, and they came with boxes. Crazy.




Put up on craigslist? I wonder if theres some sort of alert app or something that people set up to alert them when that stuff is posted, I'm sure there is though. It is nuts when they vanish so fast. Its just like when I mentioned some on here and they somehow vanish lmao! 

For some reason there's really been nothing Marantz posted in Portland, OR craigslist since November except the expensive crap from Investment Audio in Beaverton.


----------



## PhoenixG

There is no alert app haha. I just lurk on craigslist when I'm bored.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats, and welcome to the club!!
  
  I've found the power amps very easy to restore(in the process of restoring one now). The preamps are fairly easy, but requires a bit more fine tuning. I would definitely get the c26 checked out by someone like Terry Dewick. He's a mac legend and his per hour rates are as cheap as they come.
  
 The c26 and c28 have been notorious for being noisy, but once rectified, can sound awesome. The lamps are very cheap as well. If you're decent with an iron, you can even make your own leds like I did. Audio classics sells an led conversion kit for my preamp for 150.00. For around 7.00 I made my own and even had enough parts left to upgrade my amp with leds as well. 
  
 But I can tell you that macs are well worth the effort. And I finally see what the fuss is all about. And what a nice find. I know you must be thrilled to come across a setup like that for the price you paid.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> But the one that has the most votes of best sounding marantz is the 2285B.


 
  
 I have read the same thing about the 2285B, with the 2265B also up there in the rankings.


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats on the Mc's PhoenixG. Sometimes a little risk pays off big time. He who dares - wins!


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> I have read the same thing about the 2285B, with the 2265B also up there in the rankings.


 
 From what I've read and based on my own experience with a 2330b, the b series is a departure from the dark, overly warm marantz house sound. My 2330b was very close to neutral, and just slightly warm. It's was much more transparent and open sounding than the 2325s I've owned. From what I've read, the 2330 non b sounds like a slightly better 2325. But those syrupy sounding marantz do have a lot of fans though. I also like them as well. I find them to be a great cure for bright, analytic type cans. They just don't sound great with everything though.


----------



## LugBug1

I'd agree with that and the 'b' series being more neutral and open sounding. My b model is actually brighter in the treble than my SX Pioneer.


----------



## harrinj

There was a Marantz 2325 at audio specialties in mint condition. I don't agree with the price though at $995... 

I wanted to get the 2275 that was there but it was gone :/


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> There was a Marantz 2325 at audio specialties in mint condition. I don't agree with the price though at $995...
> 
> I wanted to get the 2275 that was there but it was gone :/




Went in today just to look around. The $995 unit is still there............and likely will be for awhile.

He got cleaned out at Xmas. Must have sold half his inventory!


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Went in today just to look around. The $995 unit is still there............and likely will be for awhile.
> 
> He got cleaned out at Xmas. Must have sold half his inventory!




Yeah I saw that... Maybe that's why nothing is on CL either as well. I wish I could get that 2325 but sheesh!

I wonder if he's taking lessons from Investment Audio because they use him to fix their stuff............ Investment audio is nuts with prices and I'm afraid its rubbing off lmao


----------



## monoethylene

It is working again


----------



## moodyrn

That's great news. Glad you got it back working!


----------



## monoethylene

Yeahhh..  the voltage regulator was bad and the relay. Further the lamps..


----------



## harrinj

monoethylene said:


> It is working again


 

 THAT is NICE looking!


----------



## MattTCG

+1 the finish on the cabinet looks great!!


----------



## jasonb

That is sexy *monoethylene.*
  
 Which model is it?


----------



## monoethylene

SX-950


----------



## Kosley

I was linked to this thread to ask this question. I am going to buy the Senn HD650's in about a day, and I was wondering if my receiver would function as a DAC/AMP. I am mainly just worried about needing to buy a DAC, as I know the amplification is fine as it powers my Beyer dt 770s a lot better than my little FiiO e06 which powers it fine. I am basically just wondering if I need to get a DAC now. I will only use the headphones when I am in the vicinity of my receiver. I have a Yamaha RX-V375BL 500 mW 5.1 stereo receiver. Thanks for the help.


----------



## kenshinhimura

kosley said:


> I was linked to this thread to ask this question. I am going to buy the Senn HD650's in about a day, and I was wondering if my receiver would function as a DAC/AMP. I am mainly just worried about needing to buy a DAC, as I know the amplification is fine as it powers my Beyer dt 770s a lot better than my little FiiO e06 which powers it fine. I am basically just wondering if I need to get a DAC now. I will only use the headphones when I am in the vicinity of my receiver. I have a Yamaha RX-V375BL 500 mW 5.1 stereo receiver. Thanks for the help.


 

 the yamaha will come with a dac, the question is how good is it.


----------



## Kosley

Is there a way to figure that out?


----------



## parbaked

kosley said:


> Is there a way to figure that out?


 
 You can listen to it and determine how good it sounds.
 It's not just the DAC but how the headphone amp is designed that will determine whether your receiver is a good match for your cans.
 The only way to know is to try it. If it doesn't sound good you can get a different amp DAC or even feed a better headphone amp from your receiver.


----------



## SpeakerBox

My experience with the basic Dolby Digital receivers is that the DACs are generally not very good.  In addition, and depending on the model, the DAC may only work on a Dolby Digital data stream.  In other words Stereo/PCM may not be recognized at all (I had an outboard Yamaha DD processor where this was the case).  Just something to be aware of.


----------



## Kosley

It is a fairly new system. I am just going to purchase them and see from there. It works great with my great with my Beyer DT770s but if I need to get a DAC it won't be an issue.


----------



## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> My experience with the basic Dolby Digital receivers is that the DACs are generally not very good.  In addition, and depending on the model, the DAC may only work on a Dolby Digital data stream.  In other words Stereo/PCM may not be recognized at all (I had an outboard Yamaha DD processor where this was the case).  Just something to be aware of.


 
 I had a Kawasaki unit once that had a decent DAC and could do Dolby settings as well as 2-channel, but if you lost the remote you couldn't change any of the output settings because the actual unit only had about five buttons on it. It's not perpetually stuck in 5.1 because I have no idea where the remote is, and my bedroom setup that I intended to put it back into service for is 2-channel.


----------



## calipilot227

Bout to spin some Zappa


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very quiet here lately.


----------



## LugBug1

This is me happy for now. Mid 80's NAD.


----------



## PhoenixG

Cool. I've got one of those kicking around the back room. I think it has either a bad voltage regulator in the output or a bad protection circuit, as it only works about 5 min until it shuts off. Just looked at it again, NAD 5100 preamp/CD player, 7100 amp. I don't think it has been properly played in a decade...


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> Very quiet here lately.


 

 You're right.............way too quiet.  So I'll add a recent photo of my main system and the changes I've made.  I used to feed it digitally with an iPod Touch direct out of it into the aux input..............what was I thinking?  I got an old laptop hooked up to a FiiO D5 DAC (not optimal but much better than an iPod) feeding it iTunes/Pandora/Spotify.  Much better sound quality.


----------



## calipilot227

I did a similar thing with an old netbook and a Schiit Modi. I installed XBMC on it (Linux version), and set up my main PC as a media server. I control it with Bubble UPnP on my Android phone. Who needs a Sonos system?


----------



## Oregonian

calipilot227 said:


> I did a similar thing with an old netbook and a Schiit Modi. I installed XBMC on it (Linux version), and set up my main PC as a media server. I control it with Bubble UPnP on my Android phone. Who needs a Sonos system?




Exactly!


----------



## moodyrn

Well since it has been a little slow, I thought I would give an update on the Mac progress. I was going to initially drop my 2205 off in Knoxville to be restored by Terry Dewick. For 200.00 he was going to do everything except the main filter caps(an extra 200.00 for those). It was going to be a three month turn around, but I thought that sacrifice would have been more than worth it.

So I'm the meantime I thought I would get it up to snuff cosmetically. I ordered a new glass, cleaned the pots and switches, adjusted the bias, and gave her a good cleaning. I also decided to make my own led lamps. Audio classics sell led conversion kits for 150.00, but for 7.00 in parts I had enough to make my own for both the 2205 and my c39 preamp. The bi-pins as always were easy. The bayonets were a little tricky, but still fairly easy.


Then I thought, if I can do something as complicated as desoldering lamps from a pcb board, making my own, and soldering the new ones to a pcb board certainly I can do something as easy as caps, diodes and resistors. So I decided to do a full restore myself....replacing all electrolytics, bad diodes, resistors, and transistors. Well after 97.00 in parts I was able to pull it off. About 1/3 off all the caps I pulled were bad a few more out of spec and a few bad transistors and diodes. I also had to replace a few ic chips as well. Here's pics of the finished boards. I used all nichicon muse premium caps except for a couple of panasonic fm on the meter boards which aren't I the signal path, and the two large axial caps on the power supply board which are vishays.








I fished everything up with a good defluxing with acetone. As you can see in the following pics, acetone does a very good job as a "defluxer"


----------



## moodyrn

Oh I also replaced the main filter caps. Those things are huge!! There a little over 4 inches tall and just over 3 inches in diameter. I did a small mod to them by adding a couple of 2.2uf/250v panasonic polyester bypass caps as seen at the top of the first pic. 

I'll post pics of the what it looks like with the new face and leds tomorrow. Before the restore, it sounded darn good. It beat everything I've owned except for the fisher. Now I would say its the solid state equal of the fisher, with it doing a couple of things better. But the fisher also does a couple of things better as well. More impressions to come. But I'm very pleased with the overall result.


----------



## Silent One

Fantastique!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks SO. Years ago the thought of recapping terrified me. But my skills and knowledge has gradually improved over the years and it just dawned on me of how capable I am at this point.


----------



## LugBug1

Great stuff Moody, its posts like that that are great for us learning about the insides of amps. Keep us informed


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, will do.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Thanks SO. Years ago the thought of recapping terrified me. But my skills and knowledge has gradually improved over the years and it just dawned on me of how capable I am at this point.


 
  
 Stereo surgical procedures still have me feeling a bit cold, and it should if I'm to remain unprepared. I hope to learn more; accomplish more in the coming few years. The excitement in this hobby will eventually push me in the direction I need to go.


----------



## harrinj

moodyrn said:


> Thanks SO. Years ago the thought of recapping terrified me. But my skills and knowledge has gradually improved over the years and it just dawned on me of how capable I am at this point.




 same here. I wanna take some electronics courses at the CC and recap my Marantz 4400. Its got some nasty crackle in the left channel (kind of like hearing the ocean in a shell) that no one but me seems to notice. Not even the guy at audio specialties in Portland could hear/find evidence of it. Hopefully if I recap it and replace the main filter caps, that'll fix it.


----------



## Skylab

Excellent work there, Moody!!!


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a nice Marantz 2226B for $125 from craigslist. Its pretty nice sounding. Almost mint. Scratchy volume control but will spray some contact cleaner in it tonight. A couple dead lights but will buy some blue LEDs next month. 

I've been to every pawn shop I could find today and only saw a crappy AKAI R2R so I'm glad I could get this. 

Oh and an almost mint PF Obscured by Clouds LP today.


----------



## Argybargy

@Moody
Very nice! Did you choose polyester bypass caps because polypro, teflon or others would not have fit?


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> Excellent work there, Moody!!!


 
  
 Thanks Skylab.


harrinj said:


> Picked up a nice Marantz 2226B for $125 from craigslist. Its pretty nice sounding. Almost mint. Scratchy volume control but will spray some contact cleaner in it tonight. A couple dead lights but will buy some blue LEDs next month.
> 
> I've been to every pawn shop I could find today and only saw a crappy AKAI R2R so I'm glad I could get this.
> 
> Oh and an almost mint PF Obscured by Clouds LP today.


 
  
 Great score! That's is said to be one of the better sounding marantz; even suprassing some of the totl models.
  
Quote:


argybargy said:


> @Moody
> Very nice! Did you choose polyester bypass caps because polypro, teflon or others would not have fit?


 
 Thanks. I chose the polyester because those are the type of caps EW likes to use for his bypass caps. I don't know why, but can't argue with the oracle.


----------



## moodyrn

As promised, here are some pics of the finished set. Sorry about the crappy quality, these were taken with my iPhone. It's never able to capture what the leds really look like.


----------



## calipilot227

Aaaaaannnnnnnd I just peed my pants. Thanks moodyrn.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks.


----------



## Silent One

I'm trying to get a better understanding in all this.... so how does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hypnosis work again?!
  
  
 That's a stunning achievement, moodyrn!


----------



## moodyrn

Appreciate the compliment SO. I guess I'm glad Terry had a 3 month waiting period now. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have done it. Especially given the price and how well regarded he is for being the mac guru. So I was able to pick out my own caps, and do the main filter caps(which he didn't include) for less than 100.00 in parts. 
  
 I must admit how nervous I was at first. One bad move could have been disastrous. Then I would have been kicking myself for not just waiting the 3 months. But I have replaced caps and other pcb parts before, just not on this scale(which is still not as daunting as a monster receiver). But I'm glad it's now done and over with. And thankfully, I shouldn't have to worry about any problems for years to come while looking good at the same time.


----------



## harrinj

All cleaned up. I shall have to put LED's in there and get some Deoxit tomorrow to clean the scratchy volume control and polish the rear jacks. 

 Let me just say that this little receivers sounds damn excellent. I was certainly surprised.


----------



## moodyrn

Sounds like it's true about it being one of the better marantz. Congrats.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> As promised, here are some pics of the finished set. Sorry about the crappy quality, these were taken with my iPhone. It's never able to capture what the leds really look like.


 
 What more can one say... They are in a class of their own! Great work.  
  


harrinj said:


> All cleaned up. I shall have to put LED's in there and get some Deoxit tomorrow to clean the scratchy volume control and polish the rear jacks.
> 
> Let me just say that this little receivers sounds damn excellent. I was certainly surprised.


 
 Lovely Marantz, I've got the younger nephew (2216b) and it sounds fab too, so I'd imagine that that sounds very good indeed!


----------



## calipilot227

Lamps are in!


----------



## Silent One

Gorgeous!!!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

@Moody & @Calipilot
  
 Very nice both!


----------



## Skylab

Am I the only one here who gets fired up at the sight of giant filter caps? 

Nice work again, Moody. That truly looks great.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Am I the only one here who gets fired up at the sight of giant filter caps?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have also been afflicted with this problem.  In fact I have a stack of them on my workbench that have been pulled from some of the receivers I have worked on, just because they look cool.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks guys. The funny thing is, the stock ones still tested good. But I saw a pic of another one with those large blue filter caps and knew I had to have them. They were the first thing I replace just to see if there would be any difference sonically. It could just be in my head, but I could swear the base tightened up a little. But if it is in my head, I still love seeing those large blue monsters every time I walk by it. And they go good with the blue meters too.


----------



## moodyrn

calipilot227 said:


> Lamps are in!


 
 Stunning!


----------



## parbaked

calipilot227 said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Looks new Calipilot!


----------



## Argybargy

moodyrn said:


> I still love seeing those large blue monsters every time I walk by it. And they go good with the blue meters too.


 
  
 Beautiful.  The matching blue is perfect.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## MattTCG

I'm somewhat jealous of all the nice finds and refurbs here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great jobs though!! I am still patiently waiting for Terry to finish my 1280. I'm into the 5th week of waiting but it feels like the 5th month.


----------



## moodyrn

It will be worth it. A restored 1280 is something really special. In a short while when picking you jaw off the floor you will realize just how worth the wait was lol.


----------



## Anda

I've been using the Kenwood KA-405 on/off for a while and it's now officially my preferred amp for my HE-500.
 I'm slowly starting to look after some of the bigger Kenwoods to try out. I guess the search never ends


----------



## PhoenixG

Moody, still loving the macs! 
 Anyways, I got digging into the equipment I picked up in a questionably working status. The preamp is seriously clean inside. Not clean"ed", just clean. Mirror shine. I have never seen something make it through the 60's without any rust, dust, smoke, or anything. I cleaned the pots out with deoxit and felt bad and I had to go back thoroughly clean up the splatter since it was so frikkin clean inside. I feel like I made it dirtier by cleaning it...Also, on the power amp, it has clearly been worked on. The caps look new. I took a photo because I think it may have been recapped. Did they come with blue caps?? I'm feeling like a lucky SOB with this setup.
 After the deoxit, the scratchiness is gone and they sound great.  The only problem I have is that it is about half as much power as I'd like to have, since my speakers are fairly inefficient. Sure, I can juuuuust make it uncomfortably loud, but I don't like turning the volume up all the way... What a good problem to have haha.


----------



## moodyrn

Those blue nichicons comes stock in all the vintage macs from that era(mine had them too). Those were the equivalent of the nichicon muse used today. And it's also why the muses are recommended for all vintage Mac recaps over at ak. But that thing is so seriously clean I can see how you would have thought that. That is one amazing score to find a vintage Mac in that condition. Also shows how good the build quality were on those too.


----------



## SpeakerBox

anda said:


> I've been using the Kenwood KA-405 on/off for a while and it's now officially my preferred amp for my HE-500.
> I'm slowly starting to look after some of the bigger Kenwoods to try out. I guess the search never ends


 
  
 Have heard great things about the KR 8010.  Want to hear one my self at some point (along with all the other things I want).


----------



## Anda

speakerbox said:


> Have heard great things about the KR 8010.  Want to hear one my self at some point (along with all the other things I want).


 
  
 Looks great, but I'm more into their integrated amps. Something like the KA-801 or KA-701


----------



## scottosan

I just got my Marantz 2252B back from surgery.  Cosmetically, it looked like it was salvaged from hurricane Katrina.  It had loose knobs and the selector swithc had one side of the knurled shaft missing so that a know wouldn't even stay on. All new electrolytics and speaker relay replaced.  The relay now has a socket, so if it ever needs to be replace, you just pop it out and a new one in.  It tested our superbly at less than .03%THD. If anyone needs a tech in the Dallas Fort Worth area, I can strongly recommend Frank Mufich in Mckinney.  The man can do wonders.


----------



## parbaked

^^ Pics?


----------



## LugBug1

parbaked said:


> ^^ Pics?


 
 +1
  
 You can't tease us like that and not provide pics!!


----------



## LugBug1

anda said:


> I've been using the Kenwood KA-405 on/off for a while and it's now officially my preferred amp for my HE-500.
> I'm slowly starting to look after some of the bigger Kenwoods to try out. I guess the search never ends


 
 Indeed the search is endless my friend. Also, don't limit yourself to one brand. I started out with a Pioneer but ended up finding my preferred sound with Sansui and NAD. Of course all brands don't sound the same, so you then have to plough through different phases (late 60's - early - mid - late 70's - early 80's) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Actually, yes just stick with Kenwoods. You'll save yourself a fortune.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Those blue nichicons comes stock in all the vintage macs from that era(mine had them too). Those were the equivalent of the nichicon muse used today. And it's also why the muses are recommended for all vintage Mac recaps over at ak. But that thing is so seriously clean I can see how you would have thought that. That is one amazing score to find a vintage Mac in that condition. Also shows how good the build quality were on those too.


 
 Thanks! Glad to know that is what they came with. I'm still thrilled with them. It is giving me dangerous thoughts haha


----------



## moodyrn

LOL, you know I understand.


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, as I was trying to calm myself down, this arrived in the mail. Sony STR-6120. I've been hunting for one and jumped on this non/semi-working unit when it was offered.



 It has some sort of gremlin that causes it to blow the output protection fuse. That relegated it to sitting on a shelf for about 40 years. Just as an educated guess, I think it might have something to do with the top cover being installed backwards and cutting off airflow to the outputs. I can hope...
  
 Edit:
 The Mrs. has started to notice how many vintage receivers/amps are in the house (6 as of now). I might have to do some picking and choosing again soon.


----------



## harrinj

I have fallen in love with this little Marantz 2226B. I took her all apart earlier and cleaned all the controls with contact cleaner and cleaned all the grime inside, replaced the fuses etc. Cleaning the Potentiometers was a real joy! just simply take off the bottom cover and they are all exposed and easy to get cleaner into each one!!! Unlike my four other marantz where you really need to get in there to get it in or almost impossible to get into the middle ones unless you take the board out.

 This amp goes so well with my HE-500's it easily bests my other's with this headphone. Now all I need to do is replace the Stereo light and put LED's in.


----------



## moodyrn

Sounds like some fun times!


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> Well, as I was trying to calm myself down, this arrived in the mail. Sony STR-6120. I've been hunting for one and jumped on this non/semi-working unit when it was offered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like you may have got a gem there if you can find the fault. If it hasn't been used since new, it may sound as good as new! 
  
  
  


harrinj said:


> I have fallen in love with this little Marantz 2226B. I took her all apart earlier and cleaned all the controls with contact cleaner and cleaned all the grime inside, replaced the fuses etc. Cleaning the Potentiometers was a real joy! just simply take off the bottom cover and they are all exposed and easy to get cleaner into each one!!! Unlike my four other marantz where you really need to get in there to get it in or almost impossible to get into the middle ones unless you take the board out.
> 
> This amp goes so well with my HE-500's it easily bests my other's with this headphone. Now all I need to do is replace the Stereo light and put LED's in.


 
 I wish I still owned the HE500's as I had them before I got into vintage amps. They do like lots of power. Hopefully the price may come down now that hifiman have some newbies coming out and I can get some again.


----------



## Anda

lugbug1 said:


> Indeed the search is endless my friend. Also, don't limit yourself to one brand. I started out with a Pioneer but ended up finding my preferred sound with Sansui and NAD. Of course all brands don't sound the same, so you then have to plough through different phases (late 60's - early - mid - late 70's - early 80's)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know but you have to start somewhere, right  I have been looking at some of the amps from Pioneer and Sansui. It really depends on what shows up on the local sites.
 For now I prefer the design from mid and late 70's. After that the designs seem to get a more "futuristic" look that I'm a total fan of


----------



## LugBug1

anda said:


> I know but you have to start somewhere, right  I have been looking at some of the amps from Pioneer and Sansui. It really depends on what shows up on the local sites.
> For now I prefer the design from mid and late 70's. After that the designs seem to get a more "futuristic" look that I'm a total fan of


 
 Yeah the 80's introduced sharp edges and digital displays that I'm warming to. Both the 70's and 80's designs are much better than the minimalist approach favoured these days. Really, theres not many nice looking amps out there at the moment. A few exceptions such as Mcintosh that have stayed true to their original designs for decades. But the latest Sansui's look like cheap dvd players and Marantz have never beaten their original 70's designs. Leben make beautiful amps but they are designed to look classic vintage. 
  
 Heres my favorite looking amp from my collection - Sansui AU505 1973

  
  
 and below a current Leben CS-300X  

  
  
 and. finally.. The new Mcintosh MHA100. Their first headphone amplifier! (only took them 65 years)

  
 Looks straight out of the 60's/70's. Beautiful.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Wow.  Did not know Mac made a HP amp.  Very nice!  Bet it sounds awesome.  Does it beat the vintage receivers and integrated amps for HP listening?


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Wow.  Did not know Mac made a HP amp.  Very nice!  Bet it sounds awesome.  Does it beat the vintage receivers and integrated amps for HP listening?


 
 Must stress that its not mine! Neither is the Leben, just in case anyone thought that. I was just showing the best of modern amps compared to my Sansui  
  
 There may be a thread on here about it, not sure I haven't checked yet. Rob probably knows more about it.


----------



## moodyrn

I think it's set for a June release. Very few have heard it. But love the design(of course   It's funny how both internally and aesthetically they've stayed true to form since the 70s. It' looks like a miniature version of this.

 One made in 1978 and the other hasn't even come out yet.


----------



## LugBug1

Thanks for that moody, yeah they've certainly stayed true to form alright. They are such an original design and aesthetic - instantly recognisable. I love the fact that they still have the blue meters!


----------



## Skylab

I have a Leben CS-300 and I'm sure one reason I was originally drawn to it is the vintage styling


----------



## Greystoke

anda said:


> I know but you have to start somewhere, right  I have been looking at some of the amps from Pioneer and Sansui. It really depends on what shows up on the local sites.
> For now I prefer the design from mid and late 70's. After that the designs seem to get a more "futuristic" look that I'm a total fan of


 

 Speaking of Pioneer, there was a SX-1250 receiver in at my local electronics surplus warehouse today.  Holy simoleons, that thing is a beast!  What looks like massive toroidal transformers, must weigh 60 pounds.  He was just posting it on eBay, said he'd had five offers on it already.  I had no idea Pioneer was that in demand!


----------



## parbaked

The SX-1250 is certainly one of the most desirable receivers from that era.


----------



## scottosan

parbaked said:


> ^^ Pics?


 Marantz 2252b with my new Klipsch Forte II speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbrzxeXesCY&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## SpeakerBox

greystoke said:


> Speaking of Pioneer, there was a SX-1250 receiver in at my local electronics surplus warehouse today.  Holy simoleons, that thing is a beast!  What looks like massive toroidal transformers, must weigh 60 pounds.  He was just posting it on eBay, said he'd had five offers on it already.  I had no idea Pioneer was that in demand!


 
  
 I just ran into one at a local pawn shop.  He wants $350 for it, but it is beat up.  Wood chipped on right side, switches dirty and sticking, tuning flywheel loose, balance control snapped off, very dirty, paint chipped off heat sinks.  These are things that can be fixed and it sounds good.  And yes, a real monster.
  
 Probably can get him down to $325, but it looks a bit like it has had a tough life, so am on the fence.
  
 What do you guys think?  Take the plunge or walk?


----------



## Greystoke

speakerbox said:


> I just ran into one at a local pawn shop.  He wants $350 for it, but it is beat up.  Wood chipped on right side, switches dirty and sticking, tuning flywheel loose, balance control snapped off, very dirty, paint chipped off heat sinks.  These are things that can be fixed and it sounds good.  And yes, a real monster.
> 
> Probably can get him down to $325, but it looks a bit like it has had a tough life, so am on the fence.
> 
> What do you guys think?  Take the plunge or walk?


 

 I was offered the Pioneer SX-1250 for $500, and it was very clean - cosmetically speaking.  I didn't ask for a power-on test, because I have no space to use one of these at home.  Other Pioneer units on Ebay are running around $1,000, with restoration services listed for $475.  If it was me, I'd walk away and keep looking for a cleaner unit, but only you can decide if the sound is worth the gamble.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> I just ran into one at a local pawn shop.  He wants $350 for it, but it is beat up.  Wood chipped on right side, switches dirty and sticking, tuning flywheel loose, balance control snapped off, very dirty, paint chipped off heat sinks.  These are things that can be fixed and it sounds good.  And yes, a real monster.
> 
> Probably can get him down to $325, but it looks a bit like it has had a tough life, so am on the fence.
> 
> What do you guys think?  Take the plunge or walk?


 
 Well, at that price, if it works, you'll never lose money on it. You could do a full restore and still be less into it than the average cost of an unrestored unit.


----------



## moodyrn

If it was me, I couldn't get there fast enough to get it. That same beat up unit would go for around 600.00 on ebay(I've seen them worse go for more than that). Most of what you list is minor. There's new reproduction wood cases for 100.00 or less, knobs and even switches on ebay are plentiful for that receiver. If it works and you do nothing but get up to snuff cosmetically and clean the switches and pots, you are looking at less than 150.00. That investment alone would get you near 1000.00 on ebay. But a nice cosmetically working sx1250 for a less than 500.00 investment for me would be a keeper. 
  
 But wait, like Phoenix said, go all the way with a full restore, and probably still looking at a 1000.00. I've seen fully restored sx1250's fetch sx1980 type money on ebay(more than 2k). So the possibilities would be endless. That' price for me(if it works) would be a no brainer. I would easily fire up the moody mobile for that.


----------



## Skylab

Totally agree. Unless you don't like projects, getting one that works for $325 would be doing very well.


----------



## SpeakerBox

@Pheonix @Moody @Skylab
  
 Thank you gentlemen.  I think he is going to hold it for a few days as he does not have the time to move it on CL or Ebay just yet.  Maybe I will cave and head there later today.  Not afraid of projects, have refurbed over 30 receivers - just the beat up look made me wary of what else I may find.


----------



## Fearless1

I need to make a quick decision and was wondering if I could get some advice from the elders(experience wise,  not age
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
  
  
  NOS Sansui Ba 2000 in box from my tube guy, 400 bucks, worth it? I see one on E-bay for over 500, but E-bay is full of lies....


----------



## Greystoke

Speaking of vintage receivers, any feedback on the Marantz 2238 B units?  I'm looking for a receiver with good to excellent radio tuner capabilities, and Marantz as a brand seems to have decent quality.


----------



## Skylab

I actually did a partial restore on a 2238B which is now the center of my 14 yo son's stereo. He loves it! It's decent sounding, typical of that era of Marantz, warm and forgiving and not very detailed. It's a great match with the Pioneer HPM-40 speakers he uses. 

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for one in good working condition though.


----------



## moodyrn

fearless1 said:


> I need to make a quick decision and was wondering if I could get some advice from the elders(experience wise,  not age
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, but in this case it's more of the truth. 500.00 is the typical going rate for one in good condition. A nos one is a one in a life time type deal at any price. You or anyone else in the world probably never see another one. Now an nos for 400.00 when a good condition one fetches 500.00? Well that one is pretty easy to figure out. Oh and look to pay about the same for an excellent condition ca2000 to go with it. They come up fairly often on ebay.


----------



## Fearless1

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, but in this case it's more of the truth. 500.00 is the typical going rate for one in good condition. A nos one is a one in a life time type deal at any price. You or anyone else in the world probably never see another one. Now an nos for 400.00 when a good condition one fetches 500.00? Well that one is pretty easy to figure out. Oh and look to pay about the same for an excellent condition ca2000 to go with it. They come up fairly often on ebay.


 

 Thanks for the reply!
  
 I have owned nothing Sansui as of yet, and common sense says grab it at this price, but it has been sitting (in box)for years and still may need some work.
  
  My two amps(non headphones) I currently own are a McIntosh MA 700 and a vintage Onkyo A-7, is the Sansui more in the direction of the warm McIntosh or the solid state sounding A-7?


----------



## MattTCG

Sansui makes some of the best receivers that I've ever heard. My 9090 db was just phenomenal.


----------



## Greystoke

skylab said:


> I actually did a partial restore on a 2238B which is now the center of my 14 yo son's stereo. He loves it! It's decent sounding, typical of that era of Marantz, warm and forgiving and not very detailed. It's a great match with the Pioneer HPM-40 speakers he uses.
> 
> I wouldn't pay more than $100 for one in good working condition though.


 

 Thanks for the feedback!  I guess I'll keep looking, the Marantz receiver I spotted on Ebay was over $500 with shipping.


----------



## moodyrn

fearless1 said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I have owned nothing Sansui as of yet, and common sense says grab it at this price, but it has been sitting (in box)for years and still may need some work.
> 
> My two amps(non headphones) I currently own are a McIntosh MA 700 and a vintage Onkyo A-7, is the Sansui more in the direction of the warm McIntosh or the solid state sounding A-7?




I haven't owned the ba2000. But I did own the au11000 which is a combination of a ba2000 and ca2000 as an integrated. And it's was warm, very smooth and lush. Not quiet marantz warm, but it was the warmest sansui I've owned. I would expect the ba2000 as a separate to sound a little better.


----------



## Fearless1

Great, thanks Moodryn and Matt!

I'm excited to get something NOS other then the occasional tube! Hopefully there is no corrosion or a leaky cap.


----------



## moodyrn

The funniest thing happened late last night. First of all, since my mcintosh restore project came out so good,  I've been regretting letting the g901 go. I only sold it in favor of my 9090db because my 9090db is flawless and has been completely restored. Well now, if I could do it over again, now that I "think" I could pull off a recapping myself, I would have kept it and sold the 9090db.
  
 Well last night, while browsing cl, I stumbled upon the same seller I bought the g901 from who had re-listed it for sale. So I thought it must be some type of mistake so I called him. Don't know how true it is(he's really a stand up guy and I have no reason to really doubt him), but he said his brother also had a g901 also and he was selling it for him. I asked him if it looked as good as the one he had, and he said...."better because his has the original box and manual". He also told me he was about to leave for FL and won't be back until the weekend. And since our first  transaction went so well, he wouldn't sell to anyone else if I wanted it. So of course I told him YES!! But I also know there are no guarantees, but a few minutes later he did pull the listing. So hopefully soon I will be the proud new owner of another g901.....hopefully lol.


----------



## Silent One

@ moodyrn
  





 We're dancin' at the beach... or will when I get there next hour!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Dang Moody...nice find. Time to gas up the Moody Mobile.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, the moody mobile is gassed up and on standby.


----------



## MattTCG

In my mind, the Moody Mobile looks just like the Batmobile.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> The funniest thing happened late last night. First of all, since my mcintosh restore project came out so good,  I've been regretting letting the g901 go. I only sold it in favor of my 9090db because my 9090db is flawless and has been completely restored. Well now, if I could do it over again, now that I "think" I could pull off a recapping myself, I would have kept it and sold the 9090db.
> 
> Well last night, while browsing cl, I stumbled upon the same seller I bought the g901 from who had re-listed it for sale. So I thought it must be some type of mistake so I called him. Don't know how true it is(he's really a stand up guy and I have no reason to really doubt him), but he said his brother also had a g901 also and he was selling it for him. I asked him if it looked as good as the one he had, and he said...."better because his has the original box and manual". He also told me he was about to leave for FL and won't be back until the weekend. And since our first  transaction went so well, he wouldn't sell to anyone else if I wanted it. So of course I told him YES!! But I also know there are no guarantees, but a few minutes later he did pull the listing. So hopefully soon I will be the proud new owner of another g901.....hopefully lol.


 

 Synchronicity at work..............good for you.


----------



## moodyrn

matttcg said:


> In my mind, the Moody Mobile looks just like the Batmobile.


 
  
 Well, they both are black.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Now that I think of it, my last four cars were all black.


oregonian said:


> Synchronicity at work..............good for you.


 
 Thanks. I just hope it works out. I'll find out soon.


----------



## LugBug1

Thats excellent news Moody. Ok guys looks like a weekend at Moody's coming up!


----------



## Silent One

Maybe we should send Mrs. Moody a cake.... soften her up a bit, before we camp out on the porch.


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> Maybe we should send Mrs. Moody a cake.... soften her up a bit, before we camp out on the porch.


 
 Excellent idea! I'll get Mrs Lugbug on to it straight away. 
  
 (Matt its your turn to bring the sausages )


----------



## moodyrn

Lol. You guys are hilarious.


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Excellent idea! I'll get Mrs Lugbug on to it straight away.
> 
> (Matt its your turn to bring the sausages )


 
  
 Me and Mrs. TCG bringing up the sausages.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Matt - I would very much appreciate your impressions of your 1250.  In theory I will have one later today, and yes I will post pictures.


----------



## MattTCG

IMO the sx1250 is every bit as good as the 1280. To my middle aged ears, I'm 45, there is a very very slight difference between the two receivers. I'm not sure that I could pick them out in a blind test. I would say that "sometimes" I can hear a slightly warmer tone to the 1250. They are both fantastic and some of the best of the era. 
  
 The bigger difference may come down to aesthetics (black meters on the 1280) and slightly more industrial build quality (1250). And last but certainly not least, the sx1250 and it's parts are much more readily available should you find yourself needing a repair. 
  
 But as far as differences in the ability to reproduce fine music, there really just isn't enough differences to split hairs over.


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> IMO the sx1250 is every bit as good as the 1280. To my middle aged ears, I'm 45, there is a very very slight difference between the two receivers. I'm not sure that I could pick them out in a blind test. I would say that "sometimes" I can hear a slightly warmer tone to the 1250. They are both fantastic and some of the best of the era.
> 
> The bigger difference may come down to aesthetics (black meters on the 1280) and slightly more industrial build quality (1250). And last but certainly not least, the sx1250 and it's parts are much more readily available should you find yourself needing a repair.
> 
> But as far as differences in the ability to reproduce fine music, there really just isn't enough differences to split hairs over.


 
  
  Sound and build quality are what I am after - so you have confirmed my expectations.  Thanks much!


----------



## moodyrn

Great impressions Matt. Should be very helpful to those on the fence about either of these.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Ok, here are some pics (not the best, but better than nothing) of the 1250 I just picked up.  Not in as bad shape as I had originally thought - with the worst being that the balance control is snapped off.  That said, listening to it right now and it sounds great.  Very clean and open sounding presentation.  Told my wife this one may be staying.


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> Ok, here are some pics (not the best, but better than nothing) of the 1250 I just picked up.  Not in as bad shape as I had originally thought - with the worst being that the balance control is snapped off.  That said, listening to it right now and it sounds great.  Very clean and open sounding presentation.  Told my wife this one may be staying.


 

 Congrats.  Looks like a beast!


----------



## SpeakerBox

That it is.  I think I pulled something lifting it.


----------



## MattTCG

^^haha I've had many a vintage receiver hernia. Started with the 9090db that I almost dropped...had to catch it half way to the ground. Still hurts when it rains.


----------



## SpeakerBox

You may have identified a new medical condition brought on by the vintage craze.  Still listening - really nice sound.


----------



## MIKELAP

speakerbox said:


> That it is.  I think I pulled something lifting it.


 
 Always remember safety first and  be careful out there!


----------



## MattTCG

Just got an email from Terry who is doing my restore on the 1280...it's done!!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm super excited to get this one back. Now I've got to find a way to slip up to Nashville and back and still get work done. I may need to borrow the Moody Mobile so that I can travel at mach speed.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> I may need to borrow the Moody Mobile so that I can travel at mach speed.


 
 CAUTION! I have heard that the Moody Mobile, when detecting vintage gear, is programmed to return ONLY to MoodyHome...like a carrier pigeon...I'm just sayin'...YMMV.


----------



## Skylab

matttcg said:


> Just got an email from Terry who is doing my restore on the 1280...it's done!!!!! :eek:
> 
> I'm super excited to get this one back. Now I've got to find a way to slip up to Nashville and back and still get work done. I may need to borrow the Moody Mobile so that I can travel at mach speed.




Awesome! A fully restored monster receiver is an awesome thing. 




speakerbox said:


> Ok, here are some pics (not the best, but better than nothing) of the 1250 I just picked up.  Not in as bad shape as I had originally thought - with the worst being that the balance control is snapped off.  That said, listening to it right now and it sounds great.  Very clean and open sounding presentation.  Told my wife this one may be staying.




That doesn't look bad at all. You may already know, but for the wood, Howard's Restor-a-Finish, applied with 0000 steel wool, followed by Howard's Feed-n-Wax. If you ask over at AK, you might be able to score the balance control cheap.


----------



## MattTCG

Speakerbox,,,if you need knobs I have a few extras for the 1250. Just pm me.


----------



## youngngray

Hi guys,
  
 Looking for some information if anyone has it!
  
 I'm looking on local craigslist and I found a Luxman FQ990 for sale. From the pictures, it looks to be in very nice condition and it is being sold for $100.
  
 I looked online but I couldn't find much information on it. Does anyone here know if it's a good deal or if I should pass on it?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Skylab - thanks for the tip on the Howards.  Have not used it yet but most certainly will on the 1250.


----------



## MattTCG

I keep a stash of Howards Restore plus the wax treatment as well. They are both very good products and a must have for these old wood cabinets. Once in a while I'll break down and rebuild the cabinet from scratch. But that involved about three trips to my uncles house as I don't have the tools. Howards is a very good products unless you have deep scratches or structural problems with the cabinet.


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> I keep a stash of Howards Restore plus the wax treatment as well. They are both very good products and a must have for these old wood cabinets. Once in a while I'll break down and rebuild the cabinet from scratch. But that involved about three trips to my uncles house as I don't have the tools. Howards is a very good products unless you have deep scratches or structural problems with the cabinet.


 
  
 Sounds like a great product.  The only thing it won't help with is the chip on the right side.  Will either have to replace the part of the case - or repair in some fashion.


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Ok, here are some pics (not the best, but better than nothing) of the 1250 I just picked up.  Not in as bad shape as I had originally thought - with the worst being that the balance control is snapped off.  That said, listening to it right now and it sounds great.  Very clean and open sounding presentation.  Told my wife this one may be staying.


 
 Congrats bud, thats in really good nick for what you paid. Also the wood is all intact and that should come up a treat with Rob's waxing tips.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Just got an email from Terry who is doing my restore on the 1280...it's done!!!!!


 
 Brilliant! lots of impressions please


----------



## MattTCG

Matt Mobile is in route


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Matt Mobile is in route


 
  
 Be safe.... be back.... and be good with the camera!


----------



## MattTCG

Just got home. I feel I have just traveled to Oz...and back. Restore is perfect. Many details coming tomorrow.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Just got home. I feel I have just traveled to Oz...and back. Restore is perfect. Many details coming tomorrow.


 
  
 Talk about a mad dash!


----------



## MattTCG

A few details. First, I haven't even taken the receiver out of the car. Didn't get back till midnight and I was up very early because a friend pocket called me by accident...couldn't go back to sleep. 
  
 By far, the coolest thing about picking up to restore was not the receiver but getting a tour of Terry's personal collection of gear. I saw and auditioned several very rare and wonderful pieces. There were two real highlights. In his living room there was several very rare/unicorn McIntosh units. They all looked LNIB. Not a scatch, not a mark on them. The one I got to listen to was the the 225 tube amp. I just couldn't get over the condition. It was simply as new. I asked him how it could possibly look this good. He shared his secrete. The top and bottom plate are still being re-popped. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Man, that brand new polished steel makes a beautiful canvas to reflect all those tubes. 
  
 He asked me if I wanted to hear it. Um...heck yea. Sit down in my chair he says. There are several pairs of speakers, a few I don't recognize. But there is one pair up front that I know right away. AR-3a!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 And they are mint and on the original stands. He grabs the remote to play some music (no turntable, cd player is the source...it was some sort of McIntosh player) but he's having trouble because he can't find his glasses. I told him that he had the remote upside down. He laughed and said that he knew this, it was because he had to rewire it. lol
  
 Then he fired up a cd and I had one of those cathartic moments. I expected big band/swing...maybe some Miles Davis. Nope, Commodores Greatest Hits. What flowed from those ar-3a's was some of the most sweetest sounds I've ever heard. Darker treble, natural/lush mids but it was the bass that really got me. So deep and textured. Even after I had listened for a few minutes and Terry turned the volume down to softer levels, the bass still had a visceral quality at those low levels. Just wonderful.
  
 I also listened to a fisher 500c with some large advents. It was impressive for sure. But, I was still thinking about the Mac.


----------



## Silent One

I stayed up ALL night to hear this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will retire next hour. Later tonight? Commodores!


----------



## Skylab

Matt that's just awesome. Very, very cool. Looking forward to some pics and impressions of the 1280.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Congrats Matt!


----------



## LugBug1

Great stuff Matt.


----------



## Oregonian

Congrats bud....................now let's hear the feedback!


----------



## wotts

I ran across this today:
  
http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/4288119079.html
  
 Out of my price range, but it looks like a nice setup for someone.


----------



## LugBug1

wotts said:


> I ran across this today:
> 
> http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/4288119079.html
> 
> Out of my price range, but it looks like a nice setup for someone.


 

  
 I want I want I want I must have I must have I must...


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Matt on getting the 1280 back. Cool story about the gear you auditioned.


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you sir. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The cool thing about the whole ordeal was hangin' with Terry in his living room listening to sweet vintage gear and talking shop. The bad thing is now I've got a serious affection for a McIntosh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Can someone school me on the Mac's? I just don't know that much about them. The MC 225 I know is very rare...only about 3k made?? And sounds just wonderful. I like the smaller footprint and the very high quality caps used. 
  
 Fleabay is too high on them though. Who wants to sell me one?


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I've done a lot of research on them and can tell you from worst to best the one thing they all have in common is build quality. All of their tube amps are just wonderful and can't go wrong with either one. As far as solid state go, the early 70s are excellent. But are like pretty muich every other brand from the early 70s.... warm and  euphoric. But a different level of warm and euphoric from most brands. 
  
 As you go from early seventies to late, the sound sig gets closer to neutral. But the sweet spot would be the range that has the auto transformers(output transformers for solid state amps). These are on another level from their early 70s solid state stuff and uses the same features and topology as their current gear. So one of these fully restored is pretty much on par with their modern stuff. But you really can't go wrong though because all of their amps were just built to a higher standard and I can whole heartedly say, I now see what all of the fuss is about. Sure there are many who don't care for them as with anything else. But I find my particular mac to be the perfect blend between musicality and technicality.
  
 If go over to ak, you will find users who prefer even their modestly powered 55wpc receivers to totl beasts from pioneer, sansui, marantz and kenwood. I've never heard one for myself, but I can believe it based on how my 2205 sounds. Now I wouldn't mind scoring a good deal on  one of their lower powered integrated amps for the bedroom.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks Moody...great info!! I think the I'll just keep my eye out for a Mac and keep them on my radar. 
  
 On a bit of news for the strange...when I commented on the wonderfully sound of the AR-3a's Terry mentioned that his 95 year old mother also has a pair. Said that she listens to them every night on her Mac.


----------



## parbaked

matttcg said:


> Thanks Moody...great info!! I think the I'll just keep my eye out for a Mac and keep them on my radar.
> 
> On a bit of news for the strange...when I commented on the wonderfully sound of the AR-3a's Terry mentioned that his 95 year old mother also has a pair. Said that she listens to them every night on her Mac.


 
 Her son takes good care of her!


----------



## gikigill

So that's the reason she is 95 and jiving. Might have a look at McIntosh and see what can be found in Australia.


----------



## MIKELAP

matttcg said:


> Thank you sir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Theres a MC- 275 that's in Montreal 
on canuck audio mart $3,600.00 CAD
  
  
 http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649102004-mcintosh_mc275_gordon_j_gow_commemorative_edition_cage_box_papers/


----------



## PhoenixG

I hate to admit it, but as an audiophile and electrical engineer, Roger Russell of mcintosh is one of my engineer hero's. I can't help but love most vintage (pre1993 when they got bought out) mcintosh equipment. I think the ones with the solid aluminum knobs are the absolute best, but it is impossible to go wrong. I have seen them put out on oscilloscopes and they are dead accurate amps. They have an almost industrial mindset when it comes to amp design. Also, with just with my ear, I love their speakers (still, pre 1993). I need to stop gushing here. Other companies make plenty of awesome products, but I have never had such consistency across models and designs where newer is actually usually better (rarely true in the audio world). Regarding speakers,  I love some of their stuff (esp from the late 70's to the mid/late 80's), but I truly think roger russell took over their speaker legacy after he went solo
 Part of the whole vintage bug is that we try to find the rare gem that is truly fantastic. I like mcintosh's because they so often deliver on that. My sony str-6120 looks like it is about to get finished, and I plan on comparing it to a nice mcintosh setup. Both will be using mcintosh speakers as reference speakers..


----------



## moodyrn

I'm not an EE, but I can't say how impressed I was with the build of the xr7 I have. The vintage Mac speakers get a bad rep because they weren't meant to be stand alone. They were designed to go with one of their analog room correction units. Without it, they are not hitting anywhere near their potential. And many people find their speakers in used condition without the mq unit. 

 The build quality is prototypical Macintosh. And they sound really great whether you're talking about vintage or newer speakers. Not quiet on the level on my heavily modded cornwalls, but I'll put them against any 5000-7000.00 set of speakers I've listened to.


----------



## captouch

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, I've done a lot of research on them and can tell you from worst to best the one thing they all have in common is build quality. All of their tube amps are just wonderful and can't go wrong with either one. As far as solid state go, the early 70s are excellent. But are like pretty muich every other brand from the early 70s.... warm and  euphoric. But a different level of warm and euphoric from most brands.
> 
> As you go from early seventies to late, the sound sig gets closer to neutral. But the sweet spot would be the range that has the auto transformers(output transformers for solid state amps). These are on another level from their early 70s solid state stuff and uses the same features and topology as their current gear. So one of these fully restored is pretty much on par with their modern stuff. But you really can't go wrong though because all of their amps were just built to a higher standard and I can whole heartedly say, I now see what all of the fuss is about. Sure there are many who don't care for them as with anything else. But I find my particular mac to be the perfect blend between musicality and technicality.
> 
> If go over to ak, you will find users who prefer even their modestly powered 55wpc receivers to totl beasts from pioneer, sansui, marantz and kenwood. I've never heard one for myself, but I can believe it based on how my 2205 sounds. Now I wouldn't mind scoring a good deal on  one of their lower powered integrated amps for the bedroom.




Just curious - would you put the Mac1900 in the early 70's warm/euphonic category or closer to neutral? I know it spanned from '73-'78, so wasn't sure. McIntosh is new to me in terms of actually hearing one, but was lucky enough to happen into a Mac1900 last week. Haven't given it much listening time yet or compared it back to back with my other receivers,


----------



## moodyrn

Unfortunately I haven't listened to that one, so I really couldn't answer. There is a lot of impressions about over at ak though.


----------



## MattTCG

I don't suppose anyone has a pair of pre-amp/amp jumpers to fit my 1280?


----------



## Skylab

Sorry, can't help with that. Short term you can use any old patch cord though.


----------



## MattTCG

skylab said:


> Sorry, can't help with that. Short term you can use any old patch cord though.


 
  
 Yea, that's what I'm using now. Just thought that someone might have some. 
  
 thanks...


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> I don't suppose anyone has a pair of pre-amp/amp jumpers to fit my 1280?


 

 I got you, I will mail them on Monday, just have to find them.


----------



## MattTCG

fearless1 said:


> I got you, I will mail them on Monday, just have to find them.


 
  
 Sweet!! I owe you one for sure. Thanks...


----------



## Fearless1

matttcg said:


> Sweet!! I owe you one for sure. Thanks...


 
 We all share the same passion, you owe me nothing.


----------



## jgreen16

I picked up a Pioneer SX-880 in excellent shape a while ago. Pictures to follow (after I get back from the Detroit Auto Show the next couple of days). I've had what is considered vintage equipment now for much of my life. My first receiver was a Pioneer SX-780 while in tech school in the USAF in late 1978.
  
 After going to Germany after tech school I sold the SX-780 , and bought a Spec-1 & Spec-2 combo. The Spec-1 sold for $325 (list $650) and the Spec-2 for $369 (list $995) at the BX in summer '79. I also picked up a Pioneer CT-F1000 cassette deck and a Technics SL-1600 Mk II turntable. Speakers were initially JBL L110's, and later added a pair of JBL L220's. It was pretty much the strongest setup in the barracks.
  
 I sold the L220's before returning stateside in '81, but still have the L110's. The Spec stuff was sold on e-Bay in late 2003 for considerably more than I paid, but I have no idea the comparison on '79 dollars and '03 dollars, LOL.
  
 I've also had the following receivers over the years - Marantz 2238B, 2252B, and 2330B, Sansui G5500, & Pioneer SX-1050. Of those, I'd rate the SX-1050 as the best. The military was great for high end stereo equipment back in the day. Great prices for some of the best equipment of all time.


----------



## LugBug1

jgreen16 said:


> I picked up a Pioneer SX-880 in excellent shape a while ago. Pictures to follow (after I get back from the Detroit Auto Show the next couple of days). I've had what is considered vintage equipment now for much of my life. My first receiver was a Pioneer SX-780 while in tech school in the USAF in late 1978.
> 
> After going to Germany after tech school I sold the SX-780 , and bought a Spec-1 & Spec-2 combo. The Spec-1 sold for $325 (list $650) and the Spec-2 for $369 (list $995) at the BX in summer '79. I also picked up a Pioneer CT-F1000 cassette deck and a Technics SL-1600 Mk II turntable. Speakers were initially JBL L110's, and later added a pair of JBL L220's. It was pretty much the strongest setup in the barracks.
> 
> ...


 
 Great stuff, thanks for sharing that. Some fantastic gear you had over the years.


----------



## harrinj

Sheesh nothing has been put on craigslist worthwhile in this entire state since early December! What gives?!?! haha I can count for all the Marantz missing in Portland, OR CL because one establishment I am sure is buying them up but still


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Sheesh nothing has been put on craigslist worthwhile in this entire state since early December! What gives?!?! haha I can count for all the Marantz missing in Portland, OR CL because one establishment I am sure is buying them up but still


 

 I hear ya..............we are both looking at the same ads and there's NOTHING.  One $125 Sansui amp is the best I can find.  I'm after a Yamaha CR620 with adjustable loudness.


----------



## wotts

It's basically the same here as well. I see a few Macs out there, but not much has gotten me excited lately. My co-worker recently decided he wanted to build a vintage system. He already had a pair of Snall Type Ks, but wanted a bigger speaker and a receiver to replace his Nakamichi that died. He ended up driving five hours one way to pick up a Marantz 2285B and a set of McIntosh ML-1Cs. When he arrived, the cat had some AR90s hooked up. My buddy liked them and bought them too. Here's what it looks like at the moment:
  

  
  
 I'm still working with him to get it laid out better.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Those speakers have nice horns!
  
 Yes, I know - horrible joke but could not resist.


----------



## wotts

speakerbox said:


> Those speakers have nice horns!
> 
> Yes, I know - horrible joke but could not resist.


 
  
  
 Hehe, it's all good. I think there are another 30 mounts out of frame.


----------



## Fearless1

speakerbox said:


> Those speakers have nice horns!
> 
> Yes, I know - horrible joke but could not resist.


 

 I was thinking this set-up makes them horny (you started it
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Those speakers have nice horns!
> 
> Yes, I know - horrible joke but could not resist.


 
 Oh deer...


----------



## Silent One




----------



## jirapatpum

I had a chance to pick up a nice 1976 luxman L100u in mint condition month ago. Paired it with vintage JBL L112 speakers in my bedroom. 70-80 disco/rock music never sound this good before. Very impressive and musical sounding.


----------



## Silent One

Spring Cleaning :   :      :   :
  
 Will list the following _Vintage Lovelies_ in February:
  
 1978 Pioneer SX-650
 1980 Pioneer SX-D7000
 1978 Sansui G-22000


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Spring Cleaning :   :      :   :
> 
> Will list the following _Vintage Lovelies_ in February:
> 
> ...




You be able to ship?


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> Spring Cleaning :   :      :   :
> 
> Will list the following _Vintage Lovelies_ in February:
> 
> ...


----------



## Shaffer

Anyone into low-powered receivers? I love those things and just dragged another one home last night. It's a minty mint JVC VR-5501 rated at a somewhat optimistic 8wpc. Ever the wood case is flawless. Doesn't sound nearly as good as my 15wpc Kenwood, which I personally think is a fluke of a product in a sea if sonic mediocrity, but perhaps with a little work it can do better. Looks fantastic, though. Everything works.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have a fully restored Sherwood S-7100A on my night stand that I absolutely love!  Only 17WPC channel - but the sound is killer.


----------



## lithium1085

shaffer said:


> Anyone into low-powered receivers? I love those things and just dragged another one home last night. It's a minty mint JVC VR-5501 rated at a somewhat optimistic 8wpc. Ever the wood case is flawless. Doesn't sound nearly as good as my 15wpc Kenwood, which I personally think is a fluke of a product in a sea if sonic mediocrity, but perhaps with a little work it can do better. Looks fantastic, though. Everything works.


 
  
 I am thinking of obtaining a low powered receiver. Any more low -powered receiver recommendations?


----------



## LugBug1

shaffer said:


> Anyone into low-powered receivers? I love those things and just dragged another one home last night. It's a minty mint JVC VR-5501 rated at a somewhat optimistic 8wpc. Ever the wood case is flawless. Doesn't sound nearly as good as my 15wpc Kenwood, which I personally think is a fluke of a product in a sea if sonic mediocrity, but perhaps with a little work it can do better. Looks fantastic, though. Everything works.


 
 I like it. I could see that on a bedside table. 
  
 I have a little Realistic SA155 amplifier. About 2 watts per channel and 1 watt of class A apparently. Thought it might be good as a headphone amp. Not to be... Sounds bloody awful haha


----------



## Argybargy

Finally got some time to adjust and try out the Thorens 166mkii turntable.  Sounds darn good out of the 1250 phono, even with the brightish cheapo Ortofon 5ME that came with the table.


----------



## Oregonian

shaffer said:


> Anyone into low-powered receivers? I love those things and just dragged another one home last night. It's a minty mint JVC VR-5501 rated at a somewhat optimistic 8wpc. Ever the wood case is flawless. Doesn't sound nearly as good as my 15wpc Kenwood, which I personally think is a fluke of a product in a sea if sonic mediocrity, but perhaps with a little work it can do better. Looks fantastic, though. Everything works.


 

 I've got a Realistic STA-64B that runs my office system at work.  Think it's 12 WPC and for its purpose it is perfect.  Makes a great headphone amp and with having powered speakers running off it they sound great (Altec Lansing 2.1 system w/sub).


----------



## jasonb

argybargy said:


> Finally got some time to adjust and try out the Thorens 166mkii turntable.  Sounds darn good out of the 1250 phono, even with the brightish cheapo Ortofon 5ME that came with the table.


 
 I want a 1250.


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Spring Cleaning :   :      :   :
> ...


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


>


----------



## PhoenixG

There are a lot of good realistic units out there, but it's hit or miss.
 I like the sony str-6065/6060/6120 lineups too. (Really like them. Alot)


----------



## MattTCG

Somewhat off topic...can someone help with a few questions about speaker wire for these old receivers?
  
 I want some sort of wire/post that is easier to wedge into that crazy spring clip design of the Pioneers. Obviously modern cable is essentially too large to fit and stay secure. There must be some fitting that will improve the fit. I would also be interest in some softer more flexible cable than the bluejeans wire that I'm using now. Any suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## wotts

matttcg said:


> Somewhat off topic...can someone help with a few questions about speaker wire for these old receivers?
> 
> I want some sort of wire/post that is easier to wedge into that crazy spring clip design of the Pioneers. Obviously modern cable is essentially too large to fit and stay secure. There must be some fitting that will improve the fit. I would also be interest in some softer more flexible cable than the bluejeans wire that I'm using now. Any suggestions are appreciated.


 
  
  
 I tried a few different methods, but I keep returning to bare 16AWG stranded wire for the best fit. I bought a roll from amazon just to have some around. When I get my speakers situated properly, I plan to order something a little more flexible from Robert (AphroditeCu29.com).


----------



## MattTCG

Thank you sir...looking into that site now.


----------



## Anda

Do you think these could fit inside?


----------



## Skylab

That's basically what I use. Works well.


----------



## parbaked

parbaked said:


> +1!
> I couldn't use ANY of my soldered -banana or spade - cables!
> Using raw braided cable is a pain but I did peruse some options if you have unterminated cables that are too big for your spring connectors:
> 1. Solid Pin connectors - Not recommended !
> ...


 
 I have a Pioneer SA-7100 and posted this on this thread in Oct. The Nordost Flatline will solve your problems if you want a flexible cable that works with vintage Pioneer connectors. Otherwise get the soft type pin connectors. BJ Cables has a explanation of why the rigid pin connectors can cause problems.


----------



## jasonb

Just switched my setup from being a couchside setup that has been on an end table, to a more traditional desk setup. I just grabbed a desk and a chair from Staples. Cost me about $290 out the door. It's nothing too fancy, but it looks good and it works well.


----------



## MattTCG

@parbaked ...thanks for reposting that!! Great info. Thanks to Rob also.


----------



## jasonb

Added a cheapo lamp. Now I can have enough light to type if I want to.

 I love lamp.


----------



## jasonb

Anybody know how a set of passive studio monitors like say the KRK R6's would do on a 65 wpc at 4 ohms vintage receiver like my SX-750? Not looking for crazy high volume, looking for a nice clean detailed sound at a low to moderate level. The specs look good on the R6's other than the stated 81db sensitivity, which seems awful low.


----------



## gikigill

Should be alright on the 750. 81db is low but not unmanageable for that amp.


----------



## jasonb

gikigill said:


> Should be alright on the 750. 81db is low but not unmanageable for that amp.


 
 I think I'm looking more towards something like this: http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker
  
 If there is not enough low end I could always add a small subwoofer. People are talking quite highly of these little speakers though.


----------



## joehalo

Those little pioneers sounded great with my sx-650. I don't think you would disappointed. Unbeatable for the price. If you don't care about the removable grills go with these http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405 $69.99 and you get $30 rebate card.


----------



## jgreen16

^ +1
  
 A great deal on a solid speaker. Best Buy sometimes has the SP-BS22-LR's on sale for under $80.


----------



## jgreen16

Here is the Pioneer SX-880 I picked up a few weeks ago. Pairs very nicely with my JBL L110's. I've got the Modi for now, and might grab a Magni to pair with it at some point.
  
 There is no scratchiness on any of the controls on the SX-880, but I do get scratchiness and cutouts on the headphone out. Do I need to do anything on the inside of the cabinet with Deoxit, or can I swab it out from the outside to remedy this?


----------



## LugBug1

jasonb said:


> Added a cheapo lamp. Now I can have enough light to type if I want to.
> 
> I love lamp.


 
 Looking good jason! Yup I can see a couple of bookshelf speakers rounding your set up off. I would look at keeping it wood. Vintage wood  Believe me you won't need a woofer with your Pioneer. Those cats are capable off great low end as I'm sure you know! 
  
 I would just keep an eye out on Ebay etc and find something vintage and a lot cheaper than buying new speakers.


----------



## Skylab

jgreen16 said:


> Here is the Pioneer SX-880 I picked up a few weeks ago. Pairs very nicely with my JBL L110's. I've got the Modi for now, and might grab a Magni to pair with it at some point.
> 
> There is no scratchiness on any of the controls on the SX-880, but I do get scratchiness and cutouts on the headphone out. Do I need to do anything on the inside of the cabinet with Deoxit, or can I swab it out from the outside to remedy this?




You can try taking a q-tip, wetting it with deoxit, and swabbing the headphone jack. It's possible that will be the cure. 

When it's cutting out, if you wiggle the plug does it come back?


----------



## jgreen16

skylab said:


> You can try taking a q-tip, wetting it with deoxit, and swabbing the headphone jack. It's possible that will be the cure.
> 
> When it's cutting out, if you wiggle the plug does it come back?


 
 Yes, wiggling makes it come back.


----------



## LugBug1

jgreen16 said:


> Yes, wiggling makes it come back.


 
 Defo try what Skylab said and give it a good clean. If its still cutting out it may be a dry solder joint, as this is fairly common with inputs where there had been pressure applied over the years. Easy fix for any handyman though


----------



## Za Warudo

I've been searching for vintage receivers on craigslist and found someone selling a "Fully Fuctioning" Realistic STA-90 for $75.  Also saw someone selling a Realistic STA-860 ("excellent condition, near mint")for the same price.  Is this a fair price?  Which one is better and will it drive my HE-400 well?
  
 Furthermore there's a Yamaha CR-1000 in mint condition for $250.  It's a little too much but if it works well as a headphone amp I would consider it.


----------



## Skylab

lugbug1 said:


> Defo try what Skylab said and give it a good clean. If its still cutting out it may be a dry solder joint, as this is fairly common with inputs where there had been pressure applied over the years. Easy fix for any handyman though




Yup. It's also possible that the headphone jack's contacts to the plug have lost their pressure over time and are not making good contact. You MIGHT be able to fix that with a flashlight and a very small screwdriver by gently prying the metal contacts in toward the hole. Depends on how the jack was constructed.


----------



## jasonb

I just grabbed a pair of the Andrew Jones Pioneers at a local Best Buy. Now I'm off to grab materials to build a shelf above my desk to put them on. Going to be a fun day.


----------



## Oregonian

za warudo said:


> I've been searching for vintage receivers on craigslist and found someone selling a "Fully Fuctioning" Realistic STA-90 for $75.  Also saw someone selling a Realistic STA-860 ("excellent condition, near mint")for the same price.  Is this a fair price?  Which one is better and will it drive my HE-400 well?
> 
> Furthermore there's a Yamaha CR-1000 in mint condition for $250.  It's a little too much but if it works well as a headphone amp I would consider it.




If you're looking for a headphone out primarily, the Realistic will be great. I have a 1973 STA-64B in my office at work that is fed by my PC, into a FiiO E-10 DAC and usually listen with either Denon D600's or my D2000's. The sound is excellent, and the bass is epic, especially with the loudness switch thrown. Well worth the money. Offer him $60 cash and see if he bites.


----------



## Za Warudo

oregonian said:


> If you're looking for a headphone out primarily, the Realistic will be great. I have a 1973 STA-64B in my office at work that is fed by my PC, into a FiiO E-10 DAC and usually listen with either Denon D600's or my D2000's. The sound is excellent, and the bass is epic, especially with the loudness switch thrown. Well worth the money. Offer him $60 cash and see if he bites.


 
 Thanks!  From what I hear using receivers for headphone amplification is hit or miss.  I don't really know if the high output impedance of vintage receivers will affect the headphone performance, but it seems to work fine for some.  From searching around this site it seems planar magnetics aren't as affected by this issue.


----------



## Fearless1

In my journeys, I have found the Deoxit that comes in a nail-polish type bottle with the brush works awesome for headphone/RCA jacks.


----------



## LugBug1

za warudo said:


> Thanks!  From what I hear using receivers for headphone amplification is hit or miss.  I don't really know if the high output impedance of vintage receivers will affect the headphone performance, but it seems to work fine for some.  From searching around this site it seems planar magnetics aren't as affected by this issue.


 
 Any high output impedance affects that I've heard with dynamic hp's have always been positive ones. More impactful bass for e.g. I've been using some RS2's (32ohm) with my vintage amps (120ohm) today and they sound surprisingly good. Better than my low output hp amps. IME impedance matching is grossly over exaggerated. Power is more important. And you'll get more power from a vintage hp out than any SS hp amp. And this is ofcourse going to better for planars


----------



## jasonb

Sorry that I keep posting pics days after day, but I have two more, then I'm done.

  

  
 Built a shelf and got a pair of the Andrew Jones designed Pioneer SP-BS22-LR'S. The SX-750 is doing a hell of a job with these. They sound ridiculous for the size. They definitely do not sound small.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have a fiend with a pair of those and he is crazy about them.  May have to try myself sometime.


----------



## Oregonian

za warudo said:


> Thanks!  From what I hear using receivers for headphone amplification is hit or miss.  I don't really know if the high output impedance of vintage receivers will affect the headphone performance, but it seems to work fine for some.  From searching around this site it seems planar magnetics aren't as affected by this issue.


 

 I've read about that impedance issue, but to be honest, I own 7 different vintage amps, and have cycled at least 15 headphones through them all at times (ranging from the cheap Panasonic RTF600 to a Sig DJ, TH600, TH900, D7000, etc) and have never had any noise floor issue or problems with how they sound.  I don't understand the science of this "issue" but I know for a fact for me it is NOT real.


----------



## moodyrn

^^^^What he said^^^


----------



## gikigill

Same with the HP outputs here. Tried over a dozen vintage amps and none had a problem with the HP out being bad.
  
 The MDR-F1 out of a 70,s Sherwood S7110 is a champ in my eyes.


----------



## jasonb

I have a new found respect for my little Pioneer. I never knew how much you could do with only about 50-60 watts per channel. I've had this SX-750 since about mid summer, but have never hooked speakers up to it until yesterday, it was just being used for headphones. This receiver paired to the little Pioneer BS22's is an outstanding sounding little system, especially outstanding since it only cost me $180 all together. $300 if you want to include the ODAC that feeds it. I have also never used a nearfield system before, so that is also a new thing for me as well. I always imagined the benefits of nearfield, but I've never experienced it until now and it is quite nice. I have yet to crank the volume knob past 9 o'clock as it just gets really loud really quickly. The ODAC is a 2 volt line out, so that probably explains that. I'd imagine the last 2/3 of the volume knob is pretty much useless. I could probably get it to about 10 o'clock on a quieter recorded album, but that's it. There is still plenty of fine tuning on the knob though so it's all good.
  
 These little Pioneer BS22's are so ridiculous though. I really didn't expect anywhere near as much bass. I'm blaming that on the fact that I'm using them nearfield, and the fact that they are only about 4-5 inches away from the back wall. There is nothing I can do about them being so close to the wall, that is just how it is going to be. Of course the wall is adding some bass into the mix, but I like it, and it still sounds clean, not bloated. They were probably designed partly with this in mind. I'm actually quite pleased with the low end extension as well. With the help of the back wall they are doing great down to about 40hz. Imaging is really nice too. Strong focus in the middle, but with plenty of width. Height is good since they are mounted high and are now angled down about 6-7 degrees. Depth seems to stop right about where the wall behind the speakers.
  
 Is there any acoustic paneling I can add to this back wall that will help with sound in any way? I could never dampen my HT setup, but I could easily add a panel or two to this back wall as long as it's removeable if I was to move out of this house.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Jason, glad that you're enjoying the Pioneer. They happen to be my fav of the vintage gear also. I think that by today's standards that 50 watts coming from your Pioneer would be much more. I've kinda been watching those speakers as well. I need some bookshelf speakers and they seem to be well liked across the board. If I see them on sale I may give them a shot.


----------



## jgreen16

skylab said:


> You can try taking a q-tip, wetting it with deoxit, and swabbing the headphone jack. It's possible that will be the cure.
> 
> When it's cutting out, if you wiggle the plug does it come back?


 
 The deoxit and q-tip seemed to take care of the scratchiness and cutting out.
  
 The other part I had forgotten to mention in my first post regarding the HP jack was a rhythmic pulsing-type noise that is present when no music is being played. When music is playing it can't really be heard, unless there is a real quiet passage. When Aux or Phono is selected, and nothing is being played, it can be heard even with the volume turned all the way down. It does not increase when turning the volume up. The best way I can describe the noise is like a playing card in the spokes of a bicycle at fairly low speed, but more muted versus snappy, if that makes sense. 
  
 The noise can also be heard when listening to FM. Not really when music is playing, but during commercials and when the DJ is speaking.


----------



## Za Warudo

Thanks for all the feedback!  How do most vintage amps compare in SQ against headphone amps under $200 (O2 for example) in driving headphones?  
  
 A list of local available vintage receivers:
  
 Realistic STA-90    $75
 Realistic STA 860    $75
 Pioneer SX-3700     $75
 Kenwood KR-5150    $90
 Allied/Pioneer 445    $90
 Pioneer VSX 3300    $35
 NAD 2140              $99
NAD 3220PE           $80
 Yamaha CR1000     $250
  
 and for the hell of it:
 GAS Thaedra          $400


----------



## Skylab

@ jgreen16 - no idea on that other problem...sorry. Maybe others here have experienced something like that.


----------



## joehalo

Question for you guys. I am considering trading my sx-950 for a pair of Magnepan SMGb. Good or bad trade?


----------



## SpeakerBox

IMHO - if the 950 is in nice condition and sounds good, it may be harder to get something like that again whereas the Pans are probably more accessible down the road.   I would be tempted to keep the 950.


----------



## joehalo

I think your right, I slept on the decision and I'm going to keep my 950.


----------



## SpeakerBox

It just took me several years to get my hands on a sx-1250, and I won't be letting it go either


----------



## Silent One

If that dreadful day comes whereby I have to relinquish my rights (my grip? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) to the Sansui G-22000, I think I may need counseling.
  
 Psychiatrist: _"Every time you see household appliances - stoves, washers/dryers, you're haunted by the Sand Seaweed receiver, yes?"_
 Silent One  :


----------



## ssrock64

za warudo said:


> Thanks for all the feedback!  How do most vintage amps compare in SQ against headphone amps under $200 (O2 for example) in driving headphones?


 
 They're very hit and miss, but when it's a hit you know it. A well-preserved or redone vintage amp can outclass any low-end or mid-end headphone amps currently on the market, but half of them have absolute trash for their headphone output.
  
 Does anyone happen to know the output impedance to the headphone jack of an SX780?


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> If that dreadful day comes whereby I have to relinquish my rights (my grip?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 At least doc didn't call her "_Spam Suey"..._


----------



## Silent One

parbaked said:


> At least doc didn't call her "_Spam Suey"..._


 
  
 Forget lying down 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the amount of dough my counselor would command, I'd make sure she sat through all of my pix! _"And this is a pix of 'Baby Sinister' getting her first set of wheels..."_


----------



## harrinj

still nothing posted on craigslist in this state worthwhile at all. How can they possibly do this? haha


----------



## MattTCG

^^ That would be the head-fi effect.


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> still nothing posted on craigslist in this state worthwhile at all. How can they possibly do this? haha


 
  
 Are you sure the region isn't simply waiting for springtime? See something worthy in SoCal and I'll ship it to you!


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> Are you sure the region isn't simply waiting for springtime? See something worthy in SoCal and I'll ship it to you!


 
 IDK. But I have noticed more and more 'want' ads on CL regarding these.


----------



## joehalo

Near me on craigslist there is an sx-1250 for $850 and an sx-1280 for $1000  if I only had the money....


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> IDK. But I have noticed more and more 'want' ads on CL regarding these.


 




  
 It's just a matter of time.... before we get priced out of the market. Folks with money buying up the good stuff because it has become it's trendy to buy vintage electronics.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have noticed more and more that if you don't jump immediately (i.e. within an hour of postings on CL) the more popular items (Marantz, Pioneer) are gone instantly.  And for insane prices too.  I missed out on two Marantz units (2220B, 2270) this past week as they were already sold when I called.


----------



## MattTCG

I'm seriously thinking of putting my restored sx1280 up for sale if anyone is interested. Local pickup only. Interest check at this point.


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> I'm seriously thinking of putting my restored sx1280 up for sale if anyone is interested. Local pickup only. Interest check at this point.


 
  
 Looking for a Mac instead?


----------



## MattTCG

Yes, I was smitten with the Mac I got to listen to when picking up the 1280 from the resto. I also need to liquidate a bit of cash. I anyone from this thread is interested I would offer at a fair price, just pm me.


----------



## moodyrn

Even in my area, there are so many wanted ads for vintage receivers, amps, and speakers. I really hope this is a temporary fad. A beat up 1250, and I mean really beat up, popped up in my area for 650.00. So I tried to negotiate, but the seller wouldn't budge. He stated how these go for 1000.00 on ebay. I told him yes, but with ebay you get buyer protection. and you have 45 days to file a claim if there's any problems, and those are also pretty much mint. He still wouldn't budge. So I told him good luck with the sale thinking no way would it sell on craiglist for that amount of money. Well, three days later it was gone.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I only considered it because an ebay seller had a mint one stripped down in parts because he didn't want to invest money getting it repaired. So I could have gotten all of the parts necessary to bring it back up to spec cosmetically. But at 650.00, I would have been better off just paying a 1000.00+ for a mint one off ebay.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am more and more thankful that I grabbed that 1250 a couple of weeks ago for $335.  As I have had time with it I have realized that other than the broken balance control and a chip out of the right side of the case - there is nothing wrong with it.  And it sounds great - I mean really good!
  
 That said I just got a replacement balance control and will open it up soon - hopefully it won't find unexpected trouble.  My first step in the restore process will be to fix the balance control, DeoxIt all the controls and clean it up.  Over time though, I will do a full restore - but am in no rush thanks to the excellent condition it is in.  I am very fortunate.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, like I said then, 335.00 would have been way too good a deal for a working 1250 to pass up. I've seen broken units go for more than that. I know one other person said he would have passed at that price, but maybe he didn't know how sought after, expensive, and great sounding these are.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, like I said then, 335.00 would have been way too good a deal for a working 1250 to pass up. I've seen broken units go for more than that. I know one other person said he would have passed at that price, but maybe he didn't know how sought after, expensive, and great sounding these are.


 
  
 Your assessment at the time was right on.  Thanks Moody.


----------



## ssrock64

matttcg said:


> I'm seriously thinking of putting my restored sx1280 up for sale if anyone is interested. Local pickup only. Interest check at this point.


 
 I'm close enough that I'd make a weekend drive for it, but my hobby fund isn't in the range of SX1280 money right now.


----------



## Trav

I've been to 2 HUGE flea markets and a thrift shop in the last week and saw NADA.


----------



## claybum

If I were in the market for anymore vintage iron, I would probably only focus on Barter Town. Thanks to Skylab and moodyrn for giving it a great plug in this thread. People over there offer up great units at reasonable prices and their AK reputations are on the line. I can understand wanting to find a unit for cheap or not wanting to pay for shipping. However, my 2 purchases at Barter Town have been very fruitful. Just a couple days ago a Sansui G8000 sold for $400 plus shipping. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, you can get GREAT deals on AK Barter Town. I am SO glad they require a paid membership to get access, and I hope they never stop that requirement. It keeps the poachers and flippers to a real minimum and means that you generally get good stuff at very fair prices.


----------



## Silent One

On the paid membership, I couldn't agree more!


----------



## Oregonian

claybum said:


> If I were in the market for anymore vintage iron, I would probably only focus on Barter Town. Thanks to Skylab and moodyrn for giving it a great plug in this thread. People over there offer up great units at reasonable prices and their AK reputations are on the line. I can understand wanting to find a unit for cheap or not wanting to pay for shipping. However, my 2 purchases at Barter Town have been very fruitful. Just a couple days ago a Sansui G8000 sold for $400 plus shipping. Seems pretty reasonable to me.


 

 I'm another paid member over there as well and have bought a fantastic Pioneer SA7500MKII as well as numerous CD's and Vinyl.
  
 Portland has been DRY on the vintage front on Craigslist................not that I need another unit but it sure is fun to look.  Not much to look at right now.................


----------



## claybum

Definitely fun to look...........and I look everyday.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes, I love the fact it's a paid membership. And it's cheap enough for anyone to join, and just enough to keep poachers out. And best of all, they are people like us and much of the gear listed has already at least been serviced. With a good bit of them being restored, and not the misleading restored you see on ebay. Restored on ebay most of the time means, cleaned and bias/dc offset adjusted. Nothing has actually been replaced.


----------



## kenshinhimura

if you dont mind, how much is the membership price on AK?


----------



## MattTCG

I believe that it's $25.


----------



## kenshinhimura

thanks matt


----------



## Skylab

My biggest problem with BarterTown is I could seriously buy a ton of stuff there I really don't need


----------



## kenshinhimura

do they have other stuff besides receivers?


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, pretty much everything audio. Even some headphones from time to time, I think there's a pair of hd650s on there now.


----------



## Oregonian

kenshinhimura said:


> do they have other stuff besides receivers?


 

 Yep, anything and everything audio including media.  Very good place to find vinyl and CD's.


----------



## jasonb

Seeing these crazy high prices for the higher end Pioneer models makes me very happy with the little SX-750 that I got for only $40 in great shape. This thing does great with my Q701 and with my new near field speaker setup. I really have no need for any more power than what I currently have. This current setup, I put together with the idea of it being a great little budget system used for low to moderate volume. It does just that and will still get louder than I'll ever need at the 9-10 o'clock spot on the volume knob. If I was using big speakers with low sensitivity in a setup that wasn't near field and I wanted high SPL, then it may be a different story I suppose. 
  
 Can anybody really say that an SX-1250 is going to sound better with headphones than an SX-750 assuming both models were up to spec? I'm not talking about tuners or phono inputs either, since I have heard the higher end models also have better phono inputs and better tuners. I'm talking about using the same source plugged into the aux input on either, with the volume matched of course. I'd say having 160 wpc on tap compared to 50 wpc on tap would make no audible difference with headphones when the headphone would never ever even see a full watt. Anybody disagree? Can anybody compare the two?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I'm not the technical expert here for sure. I mostly gauge sound quality by ear tbh. I'd call myself a Pioneer guy. I've owned 7 of them now. The quality of the receiver make a pretty big jump from the 850 to the 950...then a more modest one from the 950 to the 1050 where you're at TOTL quality in my estimation. 
  
 So my guess is that you'd see a pretty clear and appreciable improvement moving from your sx750 to say, an sx1050. My 2c...


----------



## MIKELAP

Same here with Senns HD800 plenty of slam and with good recordings great sound using Burson Conductor's Dac .and also Kef's104  9 o'clock is plenty loud for me .


----------



## jasonb

matttcg said:


> ^^ I'm not the technical expert here for sure. I mostly gauge sound quality by ear tbh. I'd call myself a Pioneer guy. I've owned 7 of them now. The quality of the receiver make a pretty big jump from the 850 to the 950...then a more modest one from the 950 to the 1050 where you're at TOTL quality in my estimation.
> 
> So my guess is that you'd see a pretty clear and appreciable improvement moving from your sx750 to say, an sx1050. My 2c...


 
 I've read posts over at audiokarma.org where people say that if you don't need the extra power than the SX-750 is plenty. I've also read people say that the biggest differences are in the tuner and the phono stage. I'm not using the phono input or the tuner, and the power of the SX-750 is plenty for what I am using it for. If I'm only listening in the 65-85 db range with moderately sensitive speakers at a distance of about 3 and a half to 4 feet I doubt going from about 50 watts per channel to 160 watts per channel is going to benefit me any. If these speakers have a sensitivity of 86db at 1 meter with 1 watt than I'm most likely not using much over maybe 4 watts per channel RMS. I'm sure there are short bursts here or there when I'm getting into the double digits, but overall I don't think I'm pushing it too hard.


----------



## shadow419

Very happy with the results so far.  Still need to redo the veneer on the case.  Thinking I may try real wood veneer instead of the factory vinyl veneer.


----------



## ssrock64

Is the BarterTown membership a one-time $25, or do you have to pay it again every once in awhile? I remember looking into it a long time ago, but I can't recall now what the deal was.
  
 There's a couple shops that advertise drool-worthy vintage gear on the local CL all the time, but they're all stacked in the back of a room unrestored somewhere in Louisiana and I'm not going to drive that far for an unserviced unit unless it's something truly special. However, there's one guy who seems to be a personal collector and has been constantly placing ads selling silverface stuff, and it looks like he has dozens of receivers. His ads are very vague and often advertise without naming the price of any specific piece, but I know for a fact that he has a bunch of speakers and a restored 9090DB at the very least. His most detailed ad claimed that he's moving out and has 37 years worth of stuff to sell. If anyone wants the name and number of the guy, PM me.
  
 Also, what in the world is an SX2500 worth?


----------



## Silent One

From my experience, using AUX IN, there is a big difference in the sonic presentation between my SX-650 and SX-D7000. The latter sounds more refined even with headphones (35wpc I think vs 120wpc).


----------



## MattTCG

ssrock64 said:


> Is the BarterTown membership a one-time $25, or do you have to pay it again every once in awhile? I remember looking into it a long time ago, but I can't recall now what the deal was.
> 
> There's a couple shops that advertise drool-worthy vintage gear on the local CL all the time, but they're all stacked in the back of a room unrestored somewhere in Louisiana and I'm not going to drive that far for an unserviced unit unless it's something truly special. However, there's one guy who seems to be a personal collector and has been constantly placing ads selling silverface stuff, and it looks like he has dozens of receivers. His ads are very vague and often advertise without naming the price of any specific piece, but I know for a fact that he has a bunch of speakers and a restored 9090DB at the very least. His most detailed ad claimed that he's moving out and has 37 years worth of stuff to sell. If anyone wants the name and number of the guy, PM me.
> 
> Also, what in the world is an SX2500 worth?


 
  
 Barter Town is an annual member I believe.


----------



## SpeakerBox

My reading indicates that the sx2500 was not that highly regarded.  Just sort of OK.


----------



## Hofy

Yes the AK Barter Town membership fee is annual and worth every penny.


----------



## captouch

hofy said:


> Yes the AK Barter Town membership fee is annual and worth every penny.


 
  
 Definitely.  You can post post Want-to-Buys, Want-to-Trades, as well as stuff you may want to sell.


----------



## PhoenixG

Anybody in Chicago headed to FL anytime soon?
 These speakers are drool-worthy
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-Speakers-XR1051-Mint-Reconed-/221365182826?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


----------



## ssrock64

phoenixg said:


> Anybody in Chicago headed to FL anytime soon?
> These speakers are drool-worthy
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-Speakers-XR1051-Mint-Reconed-/221365182826?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123


 

 Is it just me, or does $700 seem really low for those? Keep in mind that I don't know anything about the speaker side of McIntosh.


----------



## PhoenixG

ssrock64 said:


> Is it just me, or does $700 seem really low for those? Keep in mind that I don't know anything about the speaker side of McIntosh.


 
 He is almost giving them away. Last pair I saw went for $1500...


----------



## lljayll

Hey guys, I've just realized how good integrated amps are for driving headphones through the headphone out. I bought two speaker amps to drive an HE-6 and one of the amps drives the HD800 to a level of clarity that I remembering hearing on the Burson soloist. It also competes well with my WA2 with upgraded tubes. This is really a surprise to me. Anyways, I just wanted to express my amazement.


----------



## gikigill

You just fell down the rabbit hole


----------



## dyang

^That's a steal... Somebody please buy'em and tell us about it . ^


----------



## wotts

dyang said:


> ^That's a steal... Somebody please buy'em and tell us about it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm securing transportation before I bid.


----------



## dyang

wotts said:


> I'm securing transportation before I bid. :evil:




Keep us posted...


----------



## Oregonian

lljayll said:


> Hey guys, I've just realized how good integrated amps are for driving headphones through the headphone out. I bought two speaker amps to drive an HE-6 and one of the amps drives the HD800 to a level of clarity that I remembering hearing on the Burson soloist. It also competes well with my WA2 with upgraded tubes. This is really a surprise to me. Anyways, I just wanted to express my amazement.




Welcome to the best kept secret still. What did you get? Pics.......are.....required!


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> Welcome to the best kept secret still. What did you get? Pics.......are.....required!


 
 +1
 No pix, no cafe.... and mow the lawn!


----------



## wotts

dyang said:


> Keep us posted...


 
  
  
 I will be picking them up next weekend! Now, anyone interested in a pair of HPM-100s? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


> No pix, no cafe.... and mow the lawn!


 
  
  
 Indeed! Pictures for sure!


----------



## Silent One

@ wotts






 
  
 The Mac show is over.... guess I'll go to bed now!


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Wotts. A pair came up in Atlanta for 500.00 that were gone before I could start the car.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Congrats Wotts. A pair came up in Atlanta for 500.00 that were gone before I could start the car.


 
 @moody probably because it was stuck in 1'' of snow haha
@wotts 1st dibs if you sell them (because I found them)


----------



## wotts

phoenixg said:


> @moody probably because it was stuck in 1'' of snow haha
> @wotts
> 1st dibs if you sell them (because I found them)





Done deal! I called the seller and chatted for about twenty minutes. I'll go get them next weekend and take lots of pictures.


----------



## wotts

moodyrn said:


> Congrats Wotts. A pair came up in Atlanta for 500.00 that were gone before I could start the car.




Thanks! I ended up paying $600. From the minor bit of research I did last night, I think I did okay.


----------



## PhoenixG

wotts said:


> Thanks! I ended up paying $600. From the minor bit of research I did last night, I think I did okay.


----------



## moodyrn

The moody mobile is back on the road again. This time to Matts house lol. A 1280 restored by Terry Dewick is too hard to pass up.


----------



## Skylab

Ha! Good on you, Moody. I bet that thing sounds awesome. 

And Tim congrats to you too buddy! You are becoming the vintage speaker king!


----------



## moodyrn

Well speaking of speakers, I need it to go with a set I just scored off ebay(provided they arrive safely). I've always wanted a pair of 104.2, but I need up with their much acclaimed totl big brothers(hint).

I had my hopes set on another g901, but the trip to Florida the seller was taking turned out to be a move and I wasn't driving that far. These speakers need about 200wpc to shine, but I don't want to separate my Mac from my cornnies.


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> Ha! Good on you, Moody. I bet that thing sounds awesome.
> 
> And Tim congrats to you too buddy! You are becoming the vintage speaker king!





+1 to moody! I'd love to compare my 1250 to a 1280. I bet it will sound wonderful.


Thanks Rob. I'm looking forward to bringing them home. I think I'm going to have to finish a new room in the basement to house all my toys. Speaker king? Perhaps...haha


----------



## claybum

I was wondering what happened to the G901. Was patiently waiting for pics.
  
 Looking forward to impressions on the sx1280 and wotts mac speakers!


----------



## MattTCG

moodyrn said:


> The moody mobile is back on the road again. This time to Matts house lol. A 1280 restored by Terry Dewick is too hard to pass up.


 
  
 I take it back, Moody does not drive a batmobile...he's drives a Delorean just like on back to the future. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He's pulls up to my place, and his flux capacitor was glowing like a good set of tubes on my lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Smoke rolled off the vehicle when he exited through the sun roof. Black sun glasses, long trench coat...I though it was Neo from the Matrix. 
  
 It was a short visit but I got to put Moody on the BHC with the 650's and I think it's fair to say that he was impressed. 
  
 Enjoy the 1280 my friend. I know it's in good hands.


----------



## Silent One

Another great ending!


----------



## moodyrn

Just crossed the state line. The visit was short, but just long enough for me to be impressed by the crack/hd650 combo. That pairing sounds as good as some of the higher end tube amps I've listened to with the hd650. The crack is a stupid good value for the price.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ This. And that was a stock crack with NO speedball or upgrades. Just one aftermarket tube. Dang, it's really impressive. Next time I'll stop by and listen to the 500c and bring my 650/crack.


----------



## Silent One

Shoot! If there's food & drink in the middle and no snow on the ground, I'd like to make that run down South!


----------



## MattTCG

Silent One you would be welcome...consider yourself invited. Oooh, light bulb just went off.* A meet based on vintage gear. *


----------



## wotts

matttcg said:


> Silent One you would be welcome...consider yourself invited. Oooh, light bulb just went off.* A meet based on vintage gear. *


 
  
 I'm in! I need an excuse to get out of this snow anyhow.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I will grab my 79 pound SX-1980 and lug it to a meet no problem


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Come Sky, it's good for you. It's Moody's willingness to bring his 9090db to the Atlanta meet that I got hooked on vintage gear. We can make it easy for you. First annual vintage meet...location Skylab's. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ha


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, I'm in northeast FL. All y'all can come hear the modest main setup of the sx-1980 with the mac speakers. And all the other units too. They need love sometimes haha.
 Which reminds me, I am pulling the trigger on a full scale, properly massive vintage rig. I have to fire up the wife's minivan to get it all in and it's a few hours from me. I don't want to spill the beans on it until it is in hand, but it has blue VU meters on gold lettered glass, is separated into about 5 components, and comes with "CWO" speakers about chest high (if you catch my drift...). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It was an all or nothing buy, so I'll definitely have some spare bits to get rid of once all the dust settles.
 Also, my tech has figured out the gremlin with my "new" str-6120 and that'll be in the mix in a few days. He has a fantastic system (more blue meters and glass with gold lettering that I have EVER seen) that he will let me compare the 6120 to.


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> Yeah, I will grab my 79 pound SX-1980 and lug it to a meet no problem


 
  
 With the big 'G' in tow, we could be Roadies.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, I'm back at home. I will post a few initial impressions a little later.


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> Silent One you would be welcome...consider yourself invited. Oooh, light bulb just went off.* A meet based on vintage gear. *


 
  
 I think the members in this thread are good folk. A 2014 Vintage meet... why not!


----------



## moodyrn

So here's a few quick impressions. This is my third sx 1280. The first one looked brand new, and was flawless cosmetically. It left because it was beat out by my ka-907, sansui 9090db(fully restored) and I won't even mention the 500c lol. Don't get me wrong, I loved it. It was the second best solid state receiver I listened to, and the fully restored 9090db was only a little better. 

So a few months later one nearly mint came on my radar at a really good price, so I thought, maybe the first one had quiet a few out of spec parts. So this one might just sound a bit better. To my disappointment, it sounded exactly the same as the other one. So it soon left.

Now I'm a huge fan of the 1280 looks. I think it's the best looking solid state receiver even surpassing all of the marantz and sansui's. I know it's a personal preference, but it just looks so darn classy. So when Matt mentioned he was selling his which was restored by Terry, (and the fact the g901 deal fell through lol) I couldn't resist.

The two things that nagged me the most about the 1280 is the harshness in the upper mids and lower treble, and the very high noise floor with low impedance highly sensitive cans.

Well with all of that out the way, let me say at least one of my prayers have been answered. The noise floor is still way too high for my w3000 and jh13, but everything else is improved. Of course the sound sig is still the same(which I love btw), but all of the harshness is gone, transparency is better, and the treble has a bit more resolution and sounds sweeter. Not g901/9000 sweet. Or even 9090db sweet, but just a touch of sweetness that makes it more musical sounding than the stock 1280s I've owned in the past.

The imaging is just a bit tighter, but also more holographic. Now of course take these impressions with a grain of salt since it's been a couple of months since I had my last 1280. The fun part was switching it out with my Mac. Well painful as well. My back didn't appreciate switching out one 60lb beast for another 84lb beast. But they do sound very different. The pioneer just slightly warm, while the Mac is just a little warm. Doesn't sound like much, but very noticeable. The Mac sounds fuller while being just as transparent. The 1280 is more airy sounding, and more energetic. While the Mac is just smooth, rich and organic. The pioneer have a wider soundstage, but the sound stage on the Mac is deeper. The Mac has all of the technicalities of the pioneer, but it also has much more soul and sounds more musical.

But the pioneer isn't embarrassed by the Mac, but the Mac is still a bit better though. They both are keepers.
Oh and I couldn't resist popping the lid off. It's actually the first thing I did. I was really glad to see Terry used muse kx totl nichicon caps. And a few fine golds in a few spots. Also interesting, he left the tuner section alone. I've read recapping a tuner board can do more harm than good. So I guess he's from that school of thought. I was also surprised he didn't do any cleaning. It's really dirty in there, but again from my experience with cleaning these things, that probably would have pitched the price a lot higher. But he did a great job, and it sounds much better than both stock 1280s I've owned.


----------



## claybum

Thanks for the impressions moodyrn.


----------



## LugBug1

Great impressions moody and congrats! Looking forward to seeing what matt gets next. Though I'm guessing it will start with an 'M' 
  
 Just on the topic of noise with low impedance phones. Recently picked up some RS2's and shockingly they are as quiet as a mouse on my noisier amps.. There is normally a low hum on my au505 and a light hiss with my 551 when using my 300 ohm cans. No noise at all. I don't understand...? If I'm to go off my current headphones, the higher the impedance - the more noise with vintage amps! They seem to powered well enough too. A slightly more relaxed presentation compared to my high current hp amps, but this is very welcome.


----------



## MattTCG

Great impressions Moody!! I hope that you'll enjoy it. As for myself, I have an inside track on a Mac that I soon hope that be using. I'll let you all know how it turns out. 
  
 I may also give the 500c one last gasp effort. This owner had two. Moody has one and I'd love to be the second recipient, but he wont ship and lives in AZ. Somehow Moody was able to get him to ship. I'll pitch him one more time and see what happens. If there is some way to convince him, then I'd take the 500c over the Mac even.


----------



## moodyrn

If you do, I hope you can convince home this time. But as for myself getting him to ship, my wife will tell you..... I ain't to proud to beg!!


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> Well, I'm in northeast FL. All y'all can come hear the modest main setup of the sx-1980 with the mac speakers. And all the other units too. They need love sometimes haha.
> Which reminds me, I am pulling the trigger on a full scale, properly massive vintage rig. I have to fire up the wife's minivan to get it all in and it's a few hours from me. I don't want to spill the beans on it until it is in hand, but it has blue VU meters on gold lettered glass, is separated into about 5 components, and comes with "CWO" speakers about chest high (if you catch my drift...). :wink_face:
> It was an all or nothing buy, so I'll definitely have some spare bits to get rid of once all the dust settles.
> Also, my tech has figured out the gremlin with my "new" str-6120 and that'll be in the mix in a few days. He has a fantastic system (more blue meters and glass with gold lettering that I have EVER seen) that he will let me compare the 6120 to.




Sounds aorta like a Pioneer Spec rack system.....or that Rotel rack system I saw over on Audiokarma........hmmmmm


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> Sounds aorta like a Pioneer Spec rack system.....or that Rotel rack system I saw over on Audiokarma........hmmmmm


 
 Negative on both, but good guesses. I think that means the secret is still not out. I'll spill tomorrow either way.


----------



## moodyrn

Ummm.... Integra p508


----------



## Skylab

Great impressions of the restored 1280, Moody. There is no doubt in my mind that these vintage units sound much better after a complete restoration. I'm happy you're getting to hear the 1280 in all it's glory


----------



## LugBug1

Just posting a pic for the sake of it. NAD for the HD800, Sansui for the Grado's. Happy happy!


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> Thanks for the impressions moodyrn.


 
  
  


lugbug1 said:


> Great impressions moody and congrats! Looking forward to seeing what matt gets next. Though I'm guessing it will start with an 'M'


 
  


skylab said:


> Great impressions of the restored 1280, Moody. There is no doubt in my mind that these vintage units sound much better after a complete restoration. I'm happy you're getting to hear the 1280 in all it's glory


 
 Thanks guys. One thing I have learned through my vintage journey is, you really don't get to hear vintage gear until you get them restored. That don't mean every vintage piece should be restored(unless you are doing it yourself). What I mean by that is, a stock ka-907 for example, will still outperform something  like a refurbished au-317. And spending hundreds  to get budget gear restored just isn't cost effective. But for higher end gear, getting them restored will be very rewarding IMO.
  
  
 Oh, and I'm really digging the sansui LugBug


----------



## dyang

wotts said:


> I will be picking them up next weekend! Now, anyone interested in a pair of HPM-100s? :veryevil:
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed! Pictures for sure!




Hmmm HPM 100... shipping must suck even if price was right...


----------



## dyang

moodyrn said:


> Thanks guys. One thing I have learned through my vintage journey is, you really don't get to hear vintage gear until you get them restored. That don't mean every vintage piece should be restored(unless you are doing it yourself). What I mean by that is, a stock ka-907 for example, will still outperform something  like a refurbished au-317. And spending hundreds  to get budget gear restored just isn't cost effective. But for higher end gear, getting them restored will be very rewarding IMO.
> 
> 
> Oh, and I'm really digging the sansui LugBug




I have a Sansui 8080 and a 8080db and thinking about re-capping them. They still sound perfect to me imho but don't know how much of a sound difference it'll be with new caps. 

They're hooked up with pioneer 2 cs-77, 2 cs88, and 4 cs-63dx's and they rock!


----------



## wotts

dyang said:


> Hmmm HPM 100... shipping must suck even if price was right...


 
  
 At around 60lbs a piece...*shudder*


----------



## PhoenixG

Shipping on those isn't terrible. If you pack them right, you can even put them in the USPS and they'll get there safely for about $100, $150 if it say.... Washington to Florida.


----------



## wotts

I checked FedEx a moment ago and it was roughly $150 MI to CA.


----------



## Silent One

Wait, what.... I'm getting speakers for President's Day shipped to CA?!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Wait, what.... I'm getting speakers for President's Day shipped to CA?!


 
  
  
 I actually used your zip in my estimate...


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I actually used your zip in my estimate...


 
  
 Still.... your post made for a great day dream. This week I'm going to place the lonely KEF speakers inside storage for a few months. And leave the SX-D7000; SX-650, out so I can move them to a happy home locally. I want the new listening room to have more space, more Zen.


----------



## LugBug1

Just started this thread if any of you guys are interested. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/703928/do-you-own-a-vintage-cd-player-pics-please


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Just started this thread if any of you guys are interested.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/703928/do-you-own-a-vintage-cd-player-pics-please


 

 Very cool idea.  I've got at least one old Yamaha.


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Very cool idea.  I've got at least one old Yamaha.


 
 Nice one bud lets have some more pics on the thread


----------



## PhoenixG

Firing up the minivan for a haul. Pics to follow.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> Just started this thread if any of you guys are interested.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/703928/do-you-own-a-vintage-cd-player-pics-please


 
  
 Great idea! Posting on the other thread now...


----------



## nailbunny7

How much do these models sell for, realistically:
  
 Pioneer SA-9900 (completely recapped, almost perfect condition, has had the LED changed. Would probably rate at 8.5/10)
  
 Pioneer SX-5590 (completely recapped including the expensive Adcom power caps, condition very good - the face is an easy 9/10 the wood box is an 8/10 the metal cage is an 7/10 (can be repainted though for an 8-9/10), all the bad transistors and some resistors were replaced and the entire machine was run through by a certified technician at my local vintage audio store. I probably paid over 700 just for the fixes after all was said and done)
  
 I know I said I was supposed to sell around christmas, but I didn't ever get around to it, and I am leaning towards trying out a SET amp for my Omega speakers (I have the Super 6 Alnico model), so I'm probably going to sell all my vintage goodies to afford them


----------



## PhoenixG

Repost from the speaker forum, but I think it's appropriate.
 "
 Well, I said something big was coming, and by that I meant physically large. And heavy.
 It was a package deal. I really just wanted the tuner, but hey, it's all good.
 MR-78 Tuner!
 MC-2125
 C-32
 Klipsch Cornwall

  

 "


----------



## MattTCG

Great stuff PhoenixG!! How does it sound? Any resto needed?


----------



## SpeakerBox

MR78 - one of the all time great tuners.  Congrats!


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Phoenix. That's a great looking rig. The mr78 is considered one of the best tuners mac ever produced. There's one that's been on craiglist in my area for months, but I don't think many want to pay 750.00 for just a tuner lol. What version of cornwalls are the speakers(they appear to be cornwall II's)? They look really nice.
  
 Oh and the most expensive piece of that whole set up is the rare and very highly sought after c32 preamp. It's like a combination of the c28 and c29 without none of their issues. The thing alone fetches  1200-15000 depending on condition. It's hard to find one that looks that good.Congrats. Although overkill, that amp should sound great with the cornies. 
  
 They only need about 5  watts to shine, and I'm feeding mine with a 200+ wpc mac amp. Now that's super over kill, but there's just something to be said about the synergy macs have with cornwalls. And I guess the previous owner must have felt the same way. All of those pieces are legendary including the speakers. Man what a rig. You just scored big time!!


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm very excited. The previous owner had an electronics repair shop and was clearing out a big collection. Everything sounds fantastic and looks great with all the manuals. He even cleaned and adjusted every piece before he turned them over to me. He was a very nice gentleman who needed the money to pursue another stage in his life. 
 I plan on comparing the MR-78 to the sx-1980 tuner (the only part of mine that has been completely restored and adjusted).
 I'll also be comparing the cornwalls to my xr-16 speakers on an a/b basis.
 They are just regular Cornwalls. No numbers. The warranty card calls them "Cornwall E" if that means anything to anyone. The back plate just says Cornwall.
 There is simply no way to hide speakers that massive from the wife, so they probably are just visiting. 
 More to follow once I get everything set back up.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, those are a later cornwall ii. The badges are a dead giveaway, and the "e" designation gives the revision. Scoring the macs with the wood cases is a nice bonus. They can go for a couple hundred each on ebay.


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, just as I feared, the MR-78 is fantastic and the numbers prove it.
 Forget dB sensitivity and selectivity, I wanted a number that couldn't be fudged.
 I made a full sweep of the McIntosh MR-78 and the Pioneer SX-1980 tuners. The mac was able to pull in 44 stations to the pioneer's 31. Of those, I would consider 29 of them to be strong enough to be enjoyable to only 20 for the pioneer, with the rest weak or static-y.
 I was able to get one FM station on both from Orlando about 200 miles away without any othe special equipment. On the mac, it was pleasant enough for a listen, though a bit more static than I usually prefer. On the pioneer, it was only findable with some fiddling and it still came in entirely too fuzzy to be enjoyable.
 Bottom line, that's 9 more stations to choose from. Granted that this is the American South, so just because I can receive it doesn't mean I care to.
 Since the sx-1980 tuner was previously the best I've ever heard, and it has been restored to be as good as it will be, I was somewhat blown away by how handily the mac beat it. It wasn't even close.
  
  
 Also, the bass on these klipsch cornwalls is just magical and the vocals are beautiful. I think they have a wooden horn or something on there that is doing a nice job to keep it silky.
 Even in my less than optimal arrangement, there is a definite sense of imaging and a more or less 3D soundstage. I am definitely blown away by this setup.
 Obviously the c-32 preamp and MC-2125 amp are also fantastic. Voices sound realistic, the sound feels full and well developed. I haven't heard it clip or even distort , even when challenged. 
  
 To compare the klipsch cornwall speakers to the mcintosh xr-16 speakers probably isn't fair. The klipsch have about 3x as much woofer surface area. The bass is just better from them, and feels more natural all the way down to the deepest lows. The macs have taut and controlled bass, but just can't go as low. The mids are different, but equally good. The macs are more detailed, but they both nail the human voice. I think the treble is a little better from the macs, but both are fantastic.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I figured as much between the cornwalls and xr16. Now if you really want to hear something special in the treble, upgrade those tweets to crites and be prepared to be simply blown away. Upgrade the mids, and prepare to be mesmerized. Upgrade the woofers to his cast frames and the bass will gain a level of definition you couldn't imagine out of 15 inch woofers. Finally, upgrade the crossovers, and hear just how much smoother they can sound.

The upgrades do add up, but the end result will be speakers that will smash most 10,000.00-15,000.00 speakers. As much as I love my xr7, they don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as my cornwalls. But my Cornwalls are heavily upgraded and are also the x-rare vertical driver version too. So not a fair comparison.

But I'm expecting delivery of something later today that are surppose to be just as good if not better. We will see! And oh yeah, the macs are just a magical paring with cornwalls even if they are overkill.


----------



## ssrock64

Speaking of older Klipsch models, there's a pair of KG1s from the early 90s for sale locally at the same shop that I bought my vintage Dynaco and Pioneer stuff from. How much would you all guess they're worth? I checked them out personally, and they're in a lot better condition than either of my receivers were when I bought them. It's like they were almost never used.


----------



## moodyrn

They go for 70-100 on ebay, so I would offer something in between that range.


----------



## musicman59

phoenixg said:


> Repost from the speaker forum, but I think it's appropriate.
> "
> Well, I said something big was coming, and by that I meant physically large. And heavy.
> It was a package deal. I really just wanted the tuner, but hey, it's all good.
> ...


 
 Hummm.... Kilpsch Cornwalls! I love those speakers. I used to own a pair of Cornwalls II back in the early 90s and totally loved them. IMO are the best Klipsch sparker from the Heritage series. When I bough them I have the money to buy any of them all the way to the Horns and I really liked the looks of the Belle BUT sound wise IMO the Cornwalls are the most balance spacers of their line. To me the midrange and tweeter horns in the Scala, Belle and Horn are just to big and made them sound bright. The Cornwalls with their smaller midrange and tweeter and their 15" woofer sound just better. If I would put together a vintage system I would based it on the Cornwalls. Unfortunately I have no space for another system


----------



## claybum

Someday, I will own a pair of Cornwalls. I've been lusting after them for a while. 
  
 Congrats PhoenixG on your awesome score


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Lol, I figured as much between the cornwalls and xr16. Now if you really want to hear something special in the treble, upgrade those tweets to crites and be prepared to be simply blown away. Upgrade the mids, and prepare to be mesmerized. Upgrade the woofers to his cast frames and the bass will gain a level of definition you couldn't imagine out of 15 inch woofers. Finally, upgrade the crossovers, and hear just how much smoother they can sound.
> 
> The upgrades do add up, but the end result will be speakers that will smash most 10,000.00-15,000.00 speakers. As much as I love my xr7, they don't even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as my cornwalls. But my Cornwalls are heavily upgraded and are also the x-rare vertical driver version too. So not a fair comparison.
> 
> But I'm expecting delivery of something later today that are surppose to be just as good if not better. We will see! And oh yeah, the macs are just a magical paring with cornwalls even if they are overkill.


 
 Sooooooo, if I replace everything except the box and badges, then they become perfect?
 HAHAHA! At some point, a "mod" becomes a build. I do believe you though. It makes it into a true "cost no option" design when you add that many mods.


----------



## moodyrn

True it can end up becoming a rebuild. I'll put it to you this way. It only takes one mod to get you hooked. Because each one bring vast improvements. The trick is, they sound superb as is, and the notion of getting a vast improvement with one little mod is too tempting to pass up. Just ask my other klipsch lover on here. I got him into the mods as well. 

The crites tweeter mod along brings a huge upgrade to the treble. Just try it. It's not expensive, and is just one small mod.


----------



## calipilot227

I made the mistake of listening to a pair of Cornwalls a while back, and now I want a pair 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But I think my KG 5.2s are good enough to hold me over for a while.


----------



## moodyrn

Well the kef 107 arrived damaged
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. The ebay seller did a poor job packaging them, which is odd. ups is suppose to be picking them up in the next 24 hours and I'm to receive a full refund once that happens. But good luck to them getting ups to pay a claim on that.
  
 My purchase of a pair of 107 is the main reason I wanted the 1280, so no I have all of this power and nothing to do with it.


----------



## LugBug1

with you Moody


----------



## moodyrn

They were gorgeous speakers, it's a shame what happened to them.Well, I'm back to the drawing board. now my 1280 have no one to play with. I wanted these speakers sooo bad. Today is my birthday, and these would have made a great gift.


----------



## LugBug1

Happy birthday bud, you are to blame for the greatest thread on head-fi! X


----------



## OldSkool

Happy Birthday Moodyrn! Hope you have a great day despite the bad news on the KEFs. Chin up!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks fellas.


----------



## MattTCG

Happy bday Moody!! You'll find some speakers for the 1280. I have faith in the Moody Mobile.


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Happy birthday bud, you are to blame for the greatest thread on head-fi! X


 
 Happy birthday.....................and totally agree on this sentiment.


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> Happy birthday bud, you are to blame for the greatest thread on head-fi! X


 
  
  


oldskool said:


> Happy Birthday Moodyrn! Hope you have a great day despite the bad news on the KEFs. Chin up!


 
  


matttcg said:


> Happy bday Moody!! You'll find some speakers for the 1280. I have faith in the Moody Mobile.


 
  
 +1 
 Despite this misadventure, may this special day be among your best ever!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks everyone. I just finished boxing up the 107s sadly. I must say, the build quality is just incredible. I tried to play them to get an idea what they sounded like, but only the mid/tweeter array worked. Put a dmm on the woofers and they all are shot. Now I can only dream of what my restored 1280/107 combo would have sounded like.


----------



## Skylab

Happy Birthday Moody! Sorry to hear about your KEFs. I don't know why some people are so clueless about proper packaging. It isn't all that hard. Just laziness I guess.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Skylab. And given how strict ups is with claims, the way they packaged it met not of their criteria. So this is going to cost them. All they had to do was to insure they arrive safely by making sure they were properly packaged. But you're right. They don't seem to get, especially with ebay current buyer protection rules, that the only person who have anything to lose are the sellers themselves. Smh.


----------



## dyang

phoenixg said:


> Well, just as I feared, the MR-78 is fantastic and the numbers prove it.
> Forget dB sensitivity and selectivity, I wanted a number that couldn't be fudged.
> I made a full sweep of the McIntosh MR-78 and the Pioneer SX-1980 tuners. The mac was able to pull in 44 stations to the pioneer's 31. Of those, I would consider 29 of them to be strong enough to be enjoyable to only 20 for the pioneer, with the rest weak or static-y.
> I was able to get one FM station on both from Orlando about 200 miles away without any othe special equipment. On the mac, it was pleasant enough for a listen, though a bit more static than I usually prefer. On the pioneer, it was only findable with some fiddling and it still came in entirely too fuzzy to be enjoyable.
> ...


 
  
  
 How are Mac's music sound up against the all mighty Pioneer SX-1980?  
  
 Great system BTW, super beautiful!


----------



## PhoenixG

The irony is that packing things right is fairly simple (though maybe a bit tedious for heavy items), but I have gotten a few items they packed that were an elaborate mix of bubble wrap and peanuts that got completely messed up in shipping.
 Another time they just used 1" of rigid pink foam and plastic wrap and that was it. Obviously those speakers showed up damaged as well. The real kicker is that it was your birthday. Rough one.


----------



## PhoenixG

dyang said:


> How are Mac's music sound up against the all mighty Pioneer SX-1980?
> 
> Great system BTW, super beautiful!


 
 That's a good question. Frankly, they are both very good. 
 I don't know if I could tell them apart in a blind test.  If you think that the point of a good amp is to accurately amplify a signal, both are near perfect. You can just hear and feel the build quality. Bass is sharp and impactful, mids sound clear and good, and the highs are always clear and present. The mac might have a slight edge with human voices, but that is just splitting hairs. The 1980 is every bit as good as the Macs, though maybe the 1980 is a hair more clinical. The 1980 does have a micron more noise in it as well.
 Both are blissful and would treat me fine as an end state type of rig. The 1980 is due for a complete restore in March, so maybe another listen will be in order then.
 Honestly, I was so blown away by the MR-78 tuner, that any mac system using it will automatically be better than the 1980 if you like radio. Just wow. Wow. (That needed saying twice)


----------



## dyang

phoenixg said:


> That's a good question. Frankly, they are both very good.
> I don't know if I could tell them apart in a blind test.  If you think that the point of a good amp is to accurately amplify a signal, both are near perfect. You can just hear and feel the build quality. Bass is sharp and impactful, mids sound clear and good, and the highs are always clear and present. The mac might have a slight edge with human voices, but that is just splitting hairs. The 1980 is every bit as good as the Macs, though maybe the 1980 is a hair more clinical. The 1980 does have a micron more noise in it as well.
> Both are blissful and would treat me fine as an end state type of rig. The 1980 is due for a complete restore in March, so maybe another listen will be in order then.
> Honestly, I was so blown away by the MR-80 tuner, that any mac system using it will automatically be better than the 1980 if you like radio. Just wow. Wow. (That needed saying twice)


 
  
 You're awesome!!!
  
 Thanks for the quick comparison.  I've always wanted to reach for a Mcintosh but people just wanting too much money for them, and I do know that they're worth every penny.  I've been blessed with my Sansui's though...


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> Honestly, I was so blown away by the MR-78 tuner, that any mac system using it will automatically be better than the 1980 if you like radio. Just wow. Wow. (That needed saying twice)


 
  
 That is one of the few tuners that would make me think about selling my modified Kenwood KT-7550 - though it sounds glorious too.  I almost don't use my CD player any more.  In fact - if I can ever get my hands on an MR78 I may want to keep both!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, all of this talk about the mr78 made think about calling the guy up in my area to get the one he's been trying to sell for months. He's now dropped the price down to 625.00. But for me, even that would be to much for a tuner given how much I listen to FM. But it would match my 2205 visually though lol. Heck I even passed on a marantz 10B in good condition, and those go for 2500-5000.00 on ebay. I guess someone got really lucky.


----------



## PhoenixG

I would buy another one for that price. They cost about $1k. What's wrong with it that it's stagnating?
 But really. Can you send me the listing?
  
 ***
 Found it


----------



## moodyrn

The seller listed it in excellent condition with a wood case. The reason it's lasted so long is, most of the majority of people don't listen to FM that often, and most of the ones that do won't pay that much for any tuner(I'm among that group). The people who actually would are small in number overall. He would have a much better chance getting what he wants on ebay. But I've seen some go unsold on ebay at the 800.00 mark. But there are quiet a few on ebay now.


----------



## LugBug1

Thats true about FM. Shame really, I just can't get a good enough signal no matter what aerial I try these days. Plus when you can get digital free on the internet.. But I must say that FM does sound better (based on memory!)


----------



## parbaked

Even if one can get FM the ads have become intolerable, even on public radio...it is sad.


----------



## SpeakerBox

We have a publicly supported full time Jazz station here in the Rochester NY area.  Very few ads and excellent sound quality & music all the time (http://www.jazz901.org/).   We also have North Coast Radio WJZR (Jazz & Blues) here too with good quality sound and very few commercials.  Jazz lovers here are very fortunate.   I spend most of my listening time with one of these two stations.


----------



## LugBug1

We have one Jazz station in the uk. It's terrible. I've not heard any proper jazz on it yet! Bloody commercial soul music... ha


----------



## SpeakerBox

Bummer - Coltrane and the like is what we get - loving it!


----------



## Shaffer

Another week, another low-powered vintage receiver. This time it's a SX-626, my first Pioneer. It's warming up at this very moment.

This is also perhaps the cleanest piece of vintage gear I've had. It came in its original box, original bag, polishing cloth, the antenna bound with the original (and rotted) rubber band, a schematic, warranty cards, a brochure, and the manual. All pristine.



Out of sheer curiosity, what is a fair market price for such a unit in close to mint condition? I'm not considering selling it, but I am curious.


----------



## PhoenixG

$200, $300 if it has the little plugs that go in the back for the speaker taps.


----------



## Shaffer

phoenixg said:


> $200, $300 if it has the little plugs that go in the back for the speaker taps.




Thank you for the comment. This piece did come with the speaker plugs. I'm pretty thrilled.


----------



## LugBug1

Time warper! congrats! 
  
 I imagine if it has never been properly used (or not used since the 70's) it will take a lot of warming up. I wouldn't drive it too hard for a while.


----------



## Shaffer

lugbug1 said:


> Time warper! congrats!
> 
> I imagine if it has never been properly used (or not used since the 70's) it will take a lot of warming up. I wouldn't drive it too hard for a while.




Good advice. Thank you. Just for yucks I looked up its cost in 2014 dollars (the SX-626 listed for $339 in '71). It came to ~$1950 (!).


----------



## Oregonian

shaffer said:


> Thank you for the comment. This piece did come with the speaker plugs. I'm pretty thrilled.


 

 My buddy just "found" his SX525 in his closet on Monday!  I've turned him into a vintage animal and we Deoxited it yesterday at work.  Loves it...............great little Pioneers! 
  
 Those speaker plugs - where are they sold or are they?  He needs two of them.


----------



## shadow419

The bay, or making your own. Pioneer doesn't sell them anymore. There are a couple of threads dealing with these plugs on AK


----------



## Silent One

Your buddy is headed toward a fantastic weekend! I mean who doesn't like finding stuff?


----------



## LugBug1

shaffer said:


> Good advice. Thank you. Just for yucks I looked up its cost in 2014 dollars (the SX-626 listed for $339 in '71). It came to ~$1950 (!).


 
 Yup $339 was a lot of money in 1971. Actually its a lot of money now! Good stuff


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Your buddy is headed toward a fantastic weekend! I mean who doesn't like finding stuff?


 

 For sure.  And I offered him these and he bought them as they were displaced by the Cerwin Vega's and Klipsch 3.2's.


----------



## dyang

oregonian said:


> For sure.  And I offered him these and he bought them as they were displaced by the Cerwin Vega's and Klipsch 3.2's.




Those are nice! Great shape!


----------



## Oregonian

dyang said:


> Those are nice! Great shape!




They are pristine. Got them from a good friends grandmother along with a cassette deck, turntable and a STA64B receiver. They all looked new! She bought them new in the mid-70's and basically never moved them! Paid $40 for everything.


----------



## MattTCG

There is about six degrees of separation between me and a pair of Pioneer tz-9's. I don't know much about them other than the were manufactured in the late 80's and cost about $4k. I am supposed to look at them today, but the guy doesn't want to give me a price on them. I actually have to be other that way today anyway, so why not have a look.


----------



## PhoenixG

matttcg said:


> There is about six degrees of separation between me and a pair of Pioneer tz-9's. I don't know much about them other than the were manufactured in the late 80's and cost about $4k. I am supposed to look at them today, but the guy doesn't want to give me a price on them. I actually have to be other that way today anyway, so why not have a look.


 
 Hope you get to listen to them. I see that they are still fetching $600-$1600 depending on condition and finish. With that kind of range, no wonder he's not giving a price.


----------



## Skylab

Those are some serious speakers. Designed by Pioneer's high end TAD group. If they are in good condition, if you could score those for something like $500-600 a pair you would be getting a great deal. I've only ever seen one or two pairs for sale and never any locally.


----------



## MattTCG

Ill try to score them


----------



## Shaffer

lugbug1 said:


> Yup $339 was a lot of money in 1971. Actually its a lot of money now! *Good stuff*




Yes! Surprisingly good. I say that, because I could never understand folks' fascination with vintage Pioneer receivers. Now I get it.

I did some comparisons between the SX-626 the internal HP amp in an Oppo105, which is the most resolving amp I own. In terms of tonal balance, they're very similar. The Pioneer lacks some of the low-level detail, the spaciousness and the air. The sound isn't as distinctly layered and there's less sense of depth. BUT, these differences are relatively subtle in scale. I'm astounded by this, especially seeing how the 626 is a 42 year old piece with all original parts. The Pioneer is also much more apt to do its thing with a wide variety of cans, at least the ones I own, than my previous vintage favorite - a Kenwood KR-3130. The Kenwood and DT880/600 were fantastic fun playing together. Almost like watching something in Technicolor, but that was it for headphone synergy. Not with the Pioneer. Still can't believe it....


----------



## shadow419

It's very possible that the Pioneer could even close the gap further with your Oppo given a little refresh. I was very impressed with the Pioneer 434, and the 680 I rehabbed is even better.


----------



## Contrails

Hello everyone,
  
 I am searching for a vintage amp for the He-6 (soon to be acquired).  I have been looking at the Pioneer sx-939, sx-828 and the Marantz 2270.  I have been reading up on audiokarma about them but they have only tried them on different speaker set-ups.  Can any of guys write a small review on which amps you have tried the He-6 on and how they sound? I am after good 3d soundstage, smooth presentation with good bass. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## OldSkool

I can't answer all of your questions but the Marantz "house sound" is usually a bit darker than Pioneer, which seems to make the Marantz a better choice with HiFiman HE6/HE500 'phones to my ears. I believe the "slightly brighter" Pioneers are a better fit with the Audezes.
  
 With that said, I really enjoy my HE500 and Marantz 2226B combo.
  
 Just my opinion and I'm sure the vintage gurus will jump in soon and correct me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 YMMV.
  
 Cheers


----------



## jasonb




----------



## MattTCG

The setup looks great! Stay away from those energy drinks though...they'll stunt your growth.


----------



## jasonb

matttcg said:


> The setup looks great! Stay away from those energy drinks though...they'll stunt your growth.


 
 Thanks. I need to re-take some pictures that aren't so washed out and grainy though. I'm in my late 20's so I don't think I have any growth left.
 Used a real camera this time instead of my Galaxy S4. These should look a bit better. The close up of the 750 I used macro mode.
  

  

  

  

  

  
 I'm listening right now and the little 750 drives these things real nice. I never knew such little power (50-60 wpc) could do so much.


----------



## MIKELAP

jasonb said:


> Thanks. I need to re-take some pictures that aren't so washed out and grainy though. I'm in my late 20's so I don't think I have any growth left.
> Used a real camera this time instead of my Galaxy S4. These should look a bit better. The close up of the 750 I used macro mode.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i've had my SX750 for 6 months now still working and sounds great  with the KEF'S 104 and the Senns also no lack of bass there and your settings are very similar to mine best $100.00 amp i ever   had.


----------



## OldSkool

Even 26 "old school" watts drives my Paradigm Mini-Monitors (and HE500s) really well.


----------



## dyang

oldskool said:


> Even 26 "old school" watts drives my Paradigm Mini-Monitors (and HE500s) really well.


 
  
 I use to have a 2230 and like it very much, very warm sounding. 
  
 And you're right, these old school amps/receivers drives basically every headphone I have.  Oh, and let's not forget how nice they sound too.  I have 2 Sansui 8080's and they now are my "go to" source/power hooked up from my Schiit Bifrost Uber DAC.  
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## ssrock64

With more and more people getting on the bandwagon lately, it's occasionally been hard to tell this thread apart from the Head-Fi station thread!


----------



## dyang

ssrock64 said:


> With more and more people getting on the bandwagon lately, it's occasionally been hard to tell this thread apart from the Head-Fi station thread!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Some of you may recall that a few weeks ago I got a good deal on an SX-1250 with the only real problem being a snapped off balance control.  So after I obtained a replacement control and a kind soul from this forum donated a knob (thanks Matt!) I decided to open her up.  Was very pleased to see that none of the filter caps had vented - they look real good!
  

  

  
 Since I had to pull the preamp board to replace the balance control I figured I would do a recap of the preamp at the same time.  All new Panasonic caps!
  

  

  
 Massive caps and transformer.
  

  

  
 Here she is back together, shinned up, and all controls treated with DeoxIt.  Sounds fantastic!!!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Looking great. The 1250 is special and totl IMO. Hang on to that beauty!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> ^^ Looking great. The 1250 is special and totl IMO. Hang on to that beauty!!


 
  
 This one won't be going anywhere.


----------



## ssrock64

dyang said:


>


 

 There's a whole lot of people posting their vintage rigs on "Show Your Head-Fi Station at its Current State", more than I've seen before.


----------



## analogsurviver




----------



## OldSkool




----------



## SpeakerBox

New scope!


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> New scope!


 
 That was fast!
  
 Correction - New _*Preloved*_ Tektronix 468 . I will post pics, essentially a tutorial how to clean vintage preloved and-not-so-preloved gear, applicable to vintage receivers as well of course.
  
 For now, intro what this machine is capable of :


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have a Tektronix 464 - so know the look.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> I have a Tektronix 464 - so know the look.


 
 Yes, the entire Tektronix line from about three decades ago is instantly recognizable by *Tektronix Blue - *it is as known colour in the electronics circles as is Ferrari Red known to automotive lovers.


----------



## dyang

ssrock64 said:


> There's a whole lot of people posting their vintage rigs on "Show Your Head-Fi Station at its Current State", more than I've seen before.


 
 Oh I gotcha….


----------



## Silent One

2012 October _Flashback... _


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> 2012 October _Flashback... _


 
 Liked that wheel and always will...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> Liked that wheel and always will...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 With a room full of cycling gear and audio gear, when different housekeepers come to clean, they always have a "What on earth?" look on their faces.


----------



## analogsurviver

So, here the promised. First the pics of my new scope as delevered by the ebay seller:
  


Here remnants of the double sided tape once securing the pouch ( with probes, cables etc ) to the top of the smaller enclosure are clearly visible.
  

 In the upper left hand corner you can see the last calibration sticker (green circle with dates etc, this one was officially calibrated up to 6/12).
  
  


 These two pics show the detail of the remnants of the round sticker all scopes in the industry have to carry to atest they are calibrated at prescribed time intervals - usually yearly.
  
 Electronics in industry and lab use is not pampered the way we use home audio gear - there will be scratches, dents, stickers, tape and other remnants of unmentionables  telling it HAS BEEN USED. Contrary to home, particularly vintage equipment, such electronics has to conform to certain standards and is tested/adjusted=calibrated accordingly  -  usually on yeary basis. Pics also clearly show knobs dirty from regular use, everything within the normal .
  
 The remnants of stickers/tape are particularly stubborn and rather hard to remove without damage to the surface below. The most usual catastrophic failure is to use alcohol (based) cleaner - it is HIGHLY LIKELY that you will get it clean - TOO MUCH, by partially or completely remowing lettering. There is lots  collectible (prior to alcohol treatment at least... ) vintage McIntosh etc gear - reduced in resale value by painful % by this common error...
  
 The "cleaner" I have yet to fail me or damage anything is good ol' - WD40 (or its _reverse engineered equivalents )_. This thing will dillute the most stubborn remnants without damage to the surface below. Application is as follows:
  
 1. You need an (old) medium hardness toothbrush.
  
 2. WD40 or equivalent
  
 3. NEVER apply the WD40 by spraying to the surface treated directly; at least not until you acquire enough experience when it is safe to do so. ALWAYS spray the WD40 from     the closest proximity possible to the toothbrush first
  

  
  
 4. GENTLY start scrubbing the surface with remnants of tape etc - the surface has to be damp, but not wet; excess WD40 can leak inside and cause ???, so use it    sparingly. Brush the surface say every 10 minutes, so that it does not dry; WD40 evaporates, you may need to apply some more to keep the surface damp. I suggest working in a well ventilated space; WD40 has quite a powerful odour/smell and is not the most healthy substance to inhale. You will see that dirt/grime is loosenig up and say after half an hour the treated surface will be visibly better looking. You may want to repeat until satisfied with the result.
  

 It is OK to "drown" most affected portions with WD40 and leave it working. Specially on "pebbled" surface, as customary on Tektronix scopes.
  

 Only damp brush on the front plate, particularly around switches, levers, etc, where liquid could do damage to internals :


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> With a room full of cycling gear and audio gear, when different housekeepers come to clean, they always have a "What on earth?" look on their faces.


 
 Tell me about it...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## analogsurviver

Here, the grime is all but removed from the pebbled surface - couple of minutes later, it was perfectly clean again.
  
 5. Wipe off the remnants of the WD40 with a white paper towel - _*yuck IS*_ the correct reaction:
  

  
 Now you have to clean the surface with paper towel moistened with solution for hand washing of the dishes; again, DAMP to VERY sparingly wet will do; do not skimp on paper towels, you can get a "truckload" of those for one piece of electronics.
  
*RESULT:*
  

 ALL the grime gone; you can see a small scratch on the surface; such is the outcome of trying to remove the grime by scratching with fingernails - do not succumb to this usual desire to get over with ASAP - it does not work and leaves marks. Not of my doing ...
  

 It is possible to remove the "shine" around the green sticker by WOODEN toothpick with some cotton on the tip moistened first with WD40, then dishwasher solution.
 That is for  Stage 2 - after the scope will be deoxit-ed, rerfurbished with new caps, etc, etc - I intend to make it better than new condition, Cathode Ray Tube   ( CRT )  is still completely OK so such extravaganza is warranted in this case. At Stage 2, all the knobs will be removed, cleaned with toothbrush and/or ultrasonic cleaner - I like my tools trustworthy, dependable and why not, nice.
  

  

 That dent will be rectified in Stage 2 too; as delivered, all the recessed areas of the pebbled surface were "black-ish"... - perfectly normal for a piece of electronics professionally used in the industrial enviroment for the 30 or so odd years.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice scope - hope it does the job for you.  Mine is in kind of rough shape - needs calibration - but has worked ok to trace signals through vintage gear.  Payed $44 shipped - so was not expecting much.   At some point I may have it calibrated though.


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:
			
		

>


 
  






 Getting squeeky! Not that you've got it in-house, what's the wide variety of gears you hope test with?


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Nice scope - hope it does the job for you.  Mine is in kind of rough shape - needs calibration - but has worked ok to trace signals through vintage gear.  Payed $44 shipped - so was not expecting much.   At some point I may have it calibrated though.


 
 I will tell the story of my as of lately _*late*_ Hameg HM203-6 scope some other time.
  
 I was most seriously considering Philips ( Fluke in US ) scope PM3065 http://www.ebay.de/itm/SUPER-PREIS-Fluke-2-Kanal-100-MHz-Oszilloskop-PM3065-/350981635332?pt=Mess_Pr%C3%BCftechnik&hash=item51b822bd04 It has one deciding advantage - the contacts for amplitude and time base , the Aichille's heel of both Tektronix and Hameg mechanical switches, is carried out with reed relais in Philips/Fluke. MUCHOS more reliable.
  
 Then this Tek 468 popped up; it is serviceable, it is rebuildable, even if digital storage part gives up ghost ( custom ICs, now unobtainium save for canibalizing from another 486), analog still keeps on going strong. So far, all I could find wrong with it is the anticipated mechanical switch problem, CH II does not give a damn at 20mV/Div setting - _nada. _Deoxit & all that jazz imminent, I am afraid. I bid trully _a hair_ above the winning bid of EUR 121. That did include two Tek 100 MHz probes, in themselves worth a good chunk of money. Shipping is not comparable between within US and from Germany to Slovenia, while although most probably shorter distance in most cases, is international shipping and did cost EUR 32 alone. Tek 468 is no object for ladies to carry, either ...
  
 I intend to replace each and every cap to analogsurviver standard (as high as it can phisically be fitted within volumetric constraints) and then have it calibrated. I expext THAT calibration, with superiour and much longer lasting parts, will require little if any re-calibration for considerable time to come.
  
 It DOES have one drawback - the fan impersonates hurricane scaled down quite conviencingly - and this is the reason I will use it to try to repair my *QUIET *Hameg scope ASAP; I learned A LOT about music/recording looking to the scope while listening to the music - an obvious impossibility with the Tek *Hurricane ...*


----------



## SpeakerBox

Maybe I will recap mine too.  Have not opened it up yet.  Probably a dirty mess inside.


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Getting squeeky! Not that you've got it in-house, what's the wide variety of gears you hope test with?


 
 It is not an addition of new category of gear to my arsenal, it is the replacement (with much better capabilities) for my Hameg scope that gave up ghost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  about a month ago.
  
 It did set me back for a month of measurements. Think of a situation when you were super prepared for a bike race ( on a velodrome, where you waited 5 years to be able to compete ) - and on the eve preceding the race your frame broke down...NO way to replace it, time too short, even if money was not an obstacle (no such luck in my case...- had first to earn for the scope).
  
 I have a !"#$%&/()=?* rare stylus I was hunting for more than 5 years worldwide for an equally !"#$%&/()=?* rare cartridge to test - and my now late old scope gave up ghost the second that uber rare/ultrasuperb cart hit the groove of a new mint copy of a 30 years old test record -
  
 aaarghh !!!
  
 Will have to wait couple more days - I do not want to rush it, there are recording sessions scheduled for tomorrow and monday: as long as work supports play, work has to be given priority.
  
 Otherwise, I use scope to test, repair, modify ( Korg MR1000 itch, anyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?) and/or build audio equipment - and consider it, with the conjunction of professional test records, an absolutely indespensable accesory for setting up of  turntables.
  
 I will tell the story of my first now late scope I still hope will be possible to resurrect it some other time. It is a 
  
*VERY*
  
 interesting one ... !


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Maybe I will recap mine too.  Have not opened it up yet.  Probably a dirty mess inside.


 
 Yup... - THE way to grasp the meaning of
  
_*primeval dust*_


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, speaking of records, my wife brought this "gem" home today.

 No, we don't quite speak German, she just thought it'd be funny. Well, at least we finally get to see what this light does.

 And now I know this guy works. It doesn't sound bad, but chorale/folk music never really sounds great.


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


> Well, speaking of records, my wife brought this "gem" home today.
> 
> No, we don't quite speak German, she just thought it'd be funny. Well, at least we finally get to see what this light does.
> 
> And now I know this guy works. It doesn't sound bad, but chorale/folk music never really sounds great.


 
 He he - it DOES. Choral/folk music sounding great - that is.
  
 However, a different kind of "light" required - NOT saying Phono. After countless recording sessions of choirs I finally found a phono cartridge that does vocal (as the most demanding ) music justice. Too rare/scarce to give any more info, so please do not ask - or otherwise I certainly will not be able to acquire "critical mass" required to try to resurrect it in the marketplace. One swallow does not bring spring, but a small flock might....


----------



## Za Warudo

A seller recently posted a bunch of vintage amps including the Marantz 2275.  I'm thinking of making the drive there to test them out.
  
 here the list of receivers he's selling:
  
 Marantz 2275 (great condition)- $525
 Onkyo TX-560 (serviced and cleaned) - $90
 Pioneer SX-737 (near mint) - $175
 Yamaha CR-620 - $160
  
 The Marantz seems like a good deal, though I'm sure how much better of a headphone amp is it than the other ones.  Advice anyone?


----------



## OldSkool

za warudo said:


> A seller recently posted a bunch of vintage amps including the Marantz 2275.  I'm thinking of making the drive there to test them out.
> 
> here the list of receivers he's selling:
> 
> ...


 

 What headphones do you own? Some vintage receivers match up better with certain cans.


----------



## Za Warudo

oldskool said:


> What headphones do you own? Some vintage receivers match up better with certain cans.


 
 HE-400, Fidelio X1.


----------



## OldSkool

za warudo said:


> HE-400, Fidelio X1.


 
 Plenty of wisdom on this thread and I'm sure you will get some good advice soon.
  
 Personally, I have two from Marantz, a 2226B and a 2216B. I also have a Kenwood KR4070. Listening to my HE-500, I prefer either of the Marantz over the Kenny. YMMV.
  
 Can you take an ipod, LOD to RCA cable and your headphones tomorrow to try them all out?


----------



## Za Warudo

oldskool said:


> Plenty of wisdom on this thread and I'm sure you will get some good advice soon.
> 
> Personally, I have two from Marantz, a 2226B and a 2216B. I also have a Kenwood KR4070. Listening to my HE-500, I prefer either of the Marantz over the Kenny. YMMV.
> 
> Can you take an ipod, LOD to RCA cable and your headphones tomorrow to try them all out?


 
 Yeah the only amp I have right now is a X3 which has a line out.  So I plan to bring it and a 3.5mm to RCA cable to test it out.  Which input on the receiver should I plug it into?  Main In, Phono or Auxiliary?


----------



## OldSkool

za warudo said:


> Yeah the only amp I have right now is a X3 which has a line out.  So I plan to bring it and a 3.5mm to RCA cable to test it out.  Which input on the receiver should I plug it into?  Main In, Phono or Auxiliary?


 

 Auxiliary.
  
 Listen for any faint crackling noises, which hopefully will be nothing more than noisy pots.
  
 Also...after the unit warms up, I always smell each receiver for a tobacco/nicotine smell which usually indicates the previous owner(s) were smokers. I can't stand that smell and had to pass up a nice Pioneer receiver because of it.


----------



## wotts

I promised some pcitures of the SX-1980 with my recent pick-up: a pair of McIntosh XR 1051s. Oh man, do they sound great!
  

  

  
 And here's the SX-880 I picked up for my buddy, with some HPM-100s and S-1010s (from Skylab!)


----------



## Silent One

Great cast, wotts!


----------



## analogsurviver

oldskool said:


> Auxiliary.
> 
> Listen for any faint crackling noises, which hopefully will be nothing more than noisy pots.
> 
> Also...after the unit warms up, I always smell each receiver for a tobacco/nicotine smell which usually indicates the previous owner(s) were smokers. I can't stand that smell and had to pass up a nice Pioneer receiver because of it.


 
 *If* you can stand that smell up close for say a day - usually, most of the fine dust/debris can be cleaned off, but it is lots of (gruesome) work. Then it has eventually chance for the smell to eventually subside to an acceptable level.
  
 I had to endure my own above medicine once with the Yamaha CRW-F1 cd burner (the best of its ilk- ever) - I felt like I was cleaning previous owner's ashtray  for about a year's worth of "spent cigarettes" (English not my first language). The damn thing was so smoked that the only course to get the lens (and everything else...) clean so that it would read the CD-R was to use Q-tips (LOTS of them...) moistened with alcohol .
  
 It is still happily burning CD-Rs....


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Here she is back together, shinned up, and all controls treated with DeoxIt.  Sounds fantastic!!!


 
 Brilliant work SB, I've enjoyed following this one. 
  


wotts said:


> I promised some pcitures of the SX-1980 with my recent pick-up: a pair of McIntosh XR 1051s. Oh man, do they sound great!


 
 Very special! Really, an idyllic set up. Is that a Sansui reverb unit to add some purrdy colors too!


----------



## Skylab

That's a great looking system you have there, Tim! Congrats.


----------



## PhoenixG

Congratulations! I see we have almost the same setup now Wotts, but don't worry, I have one last McTrick hopefully coming. No hints, too rare.


----------



## wotts

lugbug1 said:


> Very special! Really, an idyllic set up. Is that a Sansui reverb unit to add some purrdy colors too!


 
  
 Thank you! I do love how the Sansui lights up. I've considered making some removable LED modifications so that the brightness changes randomly.
  
  


skylab said:


> That's a great looking system you have there, Tim! Congrats.


 
  
 Thanks Rob! When I picked the speakers up, I was no more than 20 minutes from your place. Totally worth the drive.
  


phoenixg said:


> Congratulations! I see we have almost the same setup now Wotts, but don't worry, I have one last McTrick hopefully coming. No hints, too rare.


 
  
 Oooo...I can't wait to see!


----------



## Androb

I guess Luxman LV-110 is considered as a vintage amp?


----------



## harrinj

I put in blue LED's in my Marantz 2226B and it looks AMAZING! now all I need is a LED for the dial pointer and the STEREO indicator. It's really difficult to replace those meter lamps because the old plastic housing is so brittle that it breaks with the slightest touch, the bit of plastic that holds the meter lamps in place broke but the stiff wires hold them in place enough at least.


----------



## analogsurviver

harrinj said:


> I put in blue LED's in my Marantz 2226B and it looks AMAZING! now all I need is a LED for the dial pointer and the STEREO indicator. It's really difficult to replace those meter lamps because the old plastic housing is so brittle that it breaks with the slightest touch, the bit of plastic that holds the meter lamps in place broke but the stiff wires hold them in place enough at least.


 
 Brrrrrr.... BLUE LED, that is. I am the last person in this world complaining regarding looks - if it sounds good and looks like s..t, OK with me. EXCEPT for blue LEDs. Even on current equipment, whenever and wherever possible, I ALWAYS replace them with something not making my eyes sore. This goes so far that I refuse to audition a new component at dealer's if he does not cover that damn thing with CD or similar object...
  
 Otherwise, yes, old plastic has to be treated extremely gently - one "look" too hard, and it breaks.


----------



## Silent One

I hate the whole "Look a me" LED syndrome with audio components. I understand companies/designers competing for attention inside the listening room BUT as the customer, I'm ready to show many a model the door!


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> I put in blue LED's in my Marantz 2226B and it looks AMAZING! now all I need is a LED for the dial pointer and the STEREO indicator. It's really difficult to replace those meter lamps because the old plastic housing is so brittle that it breaks with the slightest touch, the bit of plastic that holds the meter lamps in place broke but the stiff wires hold them in place enough at least.


 
 Good luck trying to change the 'Stereo' bulb. I tried on my 2220, most fiddly thing I've ever attempted (and failed). I've read that there are top brain surgeons that refuse to go near them!


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> I hate the whole "Look a me" LED syndrome with audio components. I understand companies/designers competing for attention inside the listening room BUT as the customer, I'm ready to show many a model the door!


 
 It is amusing but not funny - at home I hate light/LED "Christmas tree" with passion, I positively _*adore *_it while recording - in darkened concert hall,  black component with black knobs & tiny white>whitish>pale remnants of white markings are night@mare; LEDs denoting the position of EVERY switch most welcome. Looks "grouse/garish to the max" in the listening room at home; poor manufacturers, they can hardly please this one lone analogsurviver, let alone the public at large...
 The control to switch the "christmas tree" on or off seems to be the only real solution.


----------



## calipilot227

lugbug1 said:


> Good luck trying to change the 'Stereo' bulb. I tried on my 2220, most fiddly thing I've ever attempted (and failed). I've read that there are top brain surgeons that refuse to go near them!


 
  
 Seriously? I had no problem whatsoever on my 2230. Just peeled the dial plate and diffuser off, and it was sitting right there. Same fuse lamp that is in the rest of the dial assembly.


----------



## LugBug1

calipilot227 said:


> Seriously? I had no problem whatsoever on my 2230. Just peeled the dial plate and diffuser off, and it was sitting right there. Same fuse lamp that is in the rest of the dial assembly.


 

  
 Really..? Hmm.. Just couldn't get the little box that the bulb is in - out, in order to get inside. I could see that it was a different type of bulb too!


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> It is amusing but not funny - at home I hate light/LED "Christmas tree" with passion, I positively _*adore *_it while recording - in darkened concert hall,  black component with black knobs & tiny white>whitish>pale remnants of white markings are night@mare; LEDs denoting the position of EVERY switch most welcome. Looks "grouse/garish to the max" in the listening room at home; poor manufacturers, they can hardly please this one lone analogsurviver, let alone the public at large...
> The control to switch the "christmas tree" on or off seems to be the only real solution.


 
  
 I often listen in low to moderate lighting, either by lamp or candles. Occasionally in the dark. I'd be less willing to push components off the 12th floor if indicators were soft, muted. Eventually, I may have to discretely place some film over the offenders, tastefully so.


----------



## Magick Man

My minty McIntosh MA230 has arrived, my office rig is now complete. Woot woot! Numfar! Do the dance of joy & celebration!!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Just gorgeous!! Jelly here.


----------



## LugBug1

I'm doin the dance of joy n' celebration!! Congratsez!!


----------



## LugBug1

The Dark Tower of Power...
  
 Take heed those who dare to enter the Tower... For there is dark power. A power that can en-dower to make some cower..! Even make some de-flower! That my dear friends, is the power. (of the Dark Tower) 
  
 I'm off for a shower...


----------



## parbaked

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm off for a shower...


 
 ...and a cigarette...


----------



## Silent One

magick man said:


> My minty McIntosh MA230 has arrived, my office rig is now complete. Woot woot! Numfar! Do the dance of joy & celebration!!


 
 Congrats!
  
 I can see my reflection all the way from the West coast.


----------



## parbaked

magick man said:


> My minty McIntosh MA230 has arrived, my office rig is now complete. Woot woot! Numfar! Do the dance of joy & celebration!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oooohhh she so clean....we want to see the "after" pics - when you've put some patina on her...cheers!


----------



## Silent One

Let's do the "Reflection" test on Magick Man's Mac!


----------



## ostewart

Not as vintage as a lot of your gear, but i picked up a Marantz SR-47 integrated amp and CD-52 SE for £40 for both. Need to clean them, the CD-52 needs a new CDM4 gear, but all works fine.
  
 Will post other pics once cleaned


----------



## harrinj

analogsurviver said:


> Brrrrrr.... BLUE LED, that is. I am the last person in this world complaining regarding looks - if it sounds good and looks like s..t, OK with me. EXCEPT for blue LEDs. Even on current equipment, whenever and wherever possible, I ALWAYS replace them with something not making my eyes sore. This goes so far that I refuse to audition a new component at dealer's if he does not cover that damn thing with CD or similar object...
> 
> Otherwise, yes, old plastic has to be treated extremely gently - one "look" too hard, and it breaks.




Well these lights go fantastic with this 2226B its like the style was made for LEDs.


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Good luck trying to change the 'Stereo' bulb. I tried on my 2220, most fiddly thing I've ever attempted (and failed). I've read that there are top brain surgeons that refuse to go near them!


 its easy on the 2226B, I just need to find the correct lamp. The only thing I can find is on eBay and its from Canada It includes a white LED for the dial pointer and red for the stereo indicator. 

I'm not looking forward to eventually changing the lights on my 4270 especially since the whole front of it on the inside is bent and the meters etc are off kilter. It appears at some point in its life it fell and not only bending the chassis in the front but also knocking off those two bottom damn spacers that the face screws into. I was able to repair the top but now the face kinda is like ( bulging in the middle. Sadly I cannot repair the bottom as its bent there on both sides and there's no way to get into the back of it without taking everything inside apart. I sure learned my lesson after that one to look inside before I buy it!


----------



## PhoenixG

Sometimes, taking everything apart and unbending the metal isn't too bad. If you do it right, it'll look good as new. If you do it wrong.... whole can of worms. Same goes for cars.


----------



## moodyrn

wotts said:


> I promised some pcitures of the SX-1980 with my recent pick-up: a pair of McIntosh XR 1051s. Oh man, do they sound great!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


>


 
 Wow what an amp!! That' s gorgeous. Just like the saying goes, one you go mac, you can't go back! lol. I'm glad to see macs getting more and more attention here. Now I'm just waiting on someone to score some mac integrateds.


----------



## wotts

moodyrn said:


> Wow what an amp!! That' s gorgeous. Just like the saying goes, one you go mac, you can't go back! lol. I'm glad to see macs getting more and more attention here. *Now I'm just waiting on someone to score some mac integrateds.*


 
  
  
 I keep seeing a few silver faced units pop up on CL, but not in my local area. I need to find a home for a few other things first.


----------



## parbaked

There are a few in the Bay Area: 
 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?zoomToPosting=&catAbb=sss&query=mcintosh+receiver&minAsk=&maxAsk=&sort=rel&srchType=T&excats=


----------



## Magick Man

moodyrn said:


> Wow what an amp!! That' s gorgeous. Just like the saying goes, one you go mac, you can't go back! lol. I'm glad to see macs getting more and more attention here. Now I'm just waiting on someone to score some mac integrateds.




It is, the MA230 is an integrated amp.


----------



## moodyrn

Ahh, it is in deed. I remember now. And the ma before the 230 should have made that obvious lol.


----------



## tw9000

That is a very fine looking piece of vintage gear, nice to see it all shiny and being taken care of.


----------



## Oregonian

So I've been looking for a Yamaha Natural Sound as a friend has told me about the adjustable loudness control. Had me intrigued and I just love the looks of them. Even put an ad on Audiokarma..........well, driving home from work yesterday I see a reader board type of sign in the window of a - get this - lingerie shop/pole dancing training studio that says VINTAGE STEREOS. I kid you not. I whip the truck over, walk inside and lo and behold, there are at least a dozen vintage receivers and/or integrated amps scattered among the sweet nothing's. He's got a number of Sansui AU666's, an AU6500 and various eceivers. Among them is a Toshiba 7150, which is ENORMOUS and gorgeous. Reputed to be the first digital display silver face vintage receiver, and it is heavy as heck. A good 75 lbs I'd guess. Then I saw the attached.......my target, a Yamaha R700 receiver. 




Hooked it up to the little netbook via a NuForce uDac2 playing Pandora fed into my Q40's............wow. That thing thumps, and the adjustable loudness is badass. Has some other "spatial" switch which I haven't moved off the off position yet, but I'm very happy with today's acquisition for $100. Gonna probably be in the garage system feeding Klipsch 3.2's and will feed it with the netbook, a CD player and my old a Realistic cassette deck just for fun. 

I love this hobby!


----------



## palmfish

Wow, that's a beauty! I love those Yamaha's - especially the ones with the wood side panels.
  
 Im thinking a trek to Gresham is in my future. Lingerie and pole dancing huh...lol


----------



## Oregonian

palmfish said:


> Wow, that's a beauty! I love those Yamaha's - especially the ones with the wood side panels.
> 
> Im thinking a trek to Gresham is in my future. Lingerie and pole dancing huh...lol




It's actually in Vancouver, so much closer to you! I work in the Couve........


----------



## palmfish

oregonian said:


> It's actually in Vancouver, so much closer to you! I work in the Couve........


 

 That's what I was thinking. Google brought up Linda Lee's...


----------



## dogwan

oregonian said:


> It's actually in Vancouver, so much closer to you! I work in the Couve........


 

 That's awesome!
  
 Knowing a store like that exists in the Couve somehow makes it easier to picture. *Pole dancing and vintage stereos*..... please tell me there was a Camaro parked out front.
  
 Seriously, no offense to those from Van-tucky ... I can joke because I have family there.


----------



## ostewart

Just got some Mission 702e's for £50, hooked up to the Marantz SR-47 they sound pretty good, but I don't have the space to mess around with them where I'm currently living unfortunately.
 Using Profigold bassflex 1.5mm speaker cable (was cheap and is pretty nice) banana plugs at amp end (yet to terminate the other end, tinned with silver solder for now) no bi-wiring or any of that, may replace the usual metal bridges with speaker cable, will see.
  
 Oh no, I'm getting in to the speaker world, downhill from here onwards


----------



## ssrock64

ostewart said:


> Just got some Mission 702e's for £50, hooked up to the Marantz SR-47 they sound pretty good, but I don't have the space to mess around with them where I'm currently living unfortunately.
> Using Profigold bassflex 1.5mm speaker cable (was cheap and is pretty nice) banana plugs at amp end (yet to terminate the other end, tinned with silver solder for now) no bi-wiring or any of that, may replace the usual metal bridges with speaker cable, will see.
> 
> Oh no, I'm getting in to the speaker world, downhill from here onwards


 

 Many Missions make for good near-field setups. I have a pair of 771s in my room.


----------



## ostewart

Yeah, that's what my uncle (Andrew Poppy, modern classical composer) said I should do


----------



## Oregonian

> Oh no, I'm getting in to the speaker world, downhill from here onwards


 
  
 I was solely headphones till I got my Spec system.  Then a buddy gave me a pair of Klipsch 3.2's....................and another buddy "found" a pair of Cerwin Vega's at a garage sale for $20 for me.  Now I listen to the CV's as much as my headphones, at least in my music room.  Down in the family room I have no speakers hooked up so it's Head Fi all the way.


----------



## Silent One

ostewart said:


> Just got some Mission 702e's for £50, hooked up to the Marantz SR-47 they sound pretty good, but I don't have the space to mess around with them where I'm currently living unfortunately.
> Using Profigold bassflex 1.5mm speaker cable (was cheap and is pretty nice) banana plugs at amp end (yet to terminate the other end, tinned with silver solder for now) no bi-wiring or any of that, may replace the usual metal bridges with speaker cable, will see.
> 
> *Oh no, I'm getting in to the speaker world, downhill from here onwards*


 
  
 You're a good sport! You know we can't wait 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 to clock your descent.


----------



## ostewart

You're all such great people here on head-fi


----------



## mr.khali

I am considering a Kenwood KA 5500.  What do you guys think of the Kenwood sound?  It would be my first. I need some power meters back in my life.


----------



## Oregonian

mr.khali said:


> I am considering a Kenwood KA 5500.  What do you guys think of the Kenwood sound?  It would be my first. I need some power meters back in my life.




I have TWO KA-5700's and love them. One is the main headphone station I use down in the family room. Very nice sound and yeah, the meters are a nice feature.


----------



## PhoenixG

mr.khali said:


> I am considering a Kenwood KA 5500.  What do you guys think of the Kenwood sound?  It would be my first. I need some power meters back in my life.


 
 Kenwood can be really good or really mediocre. I've never found a really "accurate" kenwood, so maybe I'm just biased. I've had the KR-9600 and KR-790, wasn't really impressed by either's sound. Although the KR-9600 was GORGEOUS is its wooden case, blue dial, horsepower, and so many meters!
  
 On another thing, mission should y'all chose to accept it, what is this guy hiding in the background here? He's selling the 1250, but I spy an 1980 and what on earth is that turntable/speakers? Is that a klipsch la scala?
 http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/ele/4341710229.html


----------



## palmfish

Speaker looks like a Belle Klipsch

http://www.klipsch.com/belle-klipsch-floorstanding-speaker/details

I have no clue about the turntable. The gurus have been summoned!


----------



## mr.khali

oregonian said:


> I have TWO KA-5700's and love them. One is the main headphone station I use down in the family room. Very nice sound and yeah, the meters are a nice feature.


 
 Good to hear! How does the sound compare to Sansui, Pioneer or Yamaha's


----------



## musicman59

palmfish said:


> Speaker looks like a Belle Klipsch
> 
> http://www.klipsch.com/belle-klipsch-floorstanding-speaker/details
> 
> I have no clue about the turntable. The gurus have been summoned!


 
 That is correct. That is the Belle Klipsch which is basically a dressed up Scala. They are beautiful speakers.


----------



## Skylab

The turntable is an Empire 598. When those are in good condition they are drop dead gorgeous. I'd love to own a mint one.


----------



## analogsurviver

skylab said:


> The turntable is an Empire 598. When those are in good condition they are drop dead gorgeous. I'd love to own a mint one.


 
  
 Agreed. When working at Benz's place, then still called Empire Switzerland, there was a minty mint 598 in the demo system, more for looks , besides a "serious" TT, fitted with SME V arm, which is immensely more suited for moving coil carts than 598's flimpsy transparent plastic headshell. But 598's looks and "golden" finish just can not be topped ...


----------



## analogsurviver

Regarding meters; they can be great looking, but also detrimental for the sound quality.
  
 One of the sexiest pairs of meters grace the awesome Technics SE-A5 (and its MK 2 incarnation ) power amp.
  

  
 http://www.adrian-kingston.com/SEA5.htm
  
 HOWEVER - if you are after the very last ounce of sound, disconnecting these georgeous looking giant ( and FAST ) meters makes for an audible improvement. 
  
 I learned of this while trying the SE-A5 and its "equivalent" integrated, the SU-V8 ( which does have a head start to begin with, with two entirely separate power supply transformers compared to SE-A5s single one, with only the separated secondary windings for ech channel ) ; try as I might, no amount of modding could bring the SE-A5 to match the sonics of ( similarly modded) SU-V8 UNTIL I switched off the meter circuit(s). Now, at least on programme not overly demanding on power supply, the two ( being essentially the very same electrical schematics) started to sing equally well.
  
 It still is one of the best sounding power amps in existance, provided it is used within its performance envelope.


----------



## ostewart

All cleaned up:


----------



## kokushu

Does anybody know if the Marantz 1152 DC integrated amp have a good headphone section?  Also is it worth getting and getting it repair?  Also does it compare to some of the other high end marantz receiver like the 2285.


----------



## Magick Man

I don't think I've heard it specifically, but other Marantz from that era seem alright, if a little too warm and "fuzzy". They are beautiful, however.


----------



## harrinj

phoenixg said:


> Kenwood can be really good or really mediocre. I've never found a really "accurate" kenwood, so maybe I'm just biased. I've had the KR-9600 and KR-790, wasn't really impressed by either's sound. Although the KR-9600 was GORGEOUS is its wooden case, blue dial, horsepower, and so many meters!
> 
> On another thing, mission should y'all chose to accept it, what is this guy hiding in the background here? He's selling the 1250, but I spy an 1980 and what on earth is that turntable/speakers? Is that a klipsch la scala?
> http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/ele/4341710229.html


 
 Oh that sucks  I've wanted to find a KR-9600 really bad for a long time. My Kenwood KA-7100 is terrific sounding and also has the best sounding and lowest noise phono input of all my receivers. my KR-7400 is not bad either. 

 That's a cool looking turntable. beats my mediocre MMF 5.1...


----------



## OldSkool

Just added a recapped Marantz 1070 to my collection. I like the smaller footprint as a desktop rig and I'm hoping to eventually pair it with the matching 112 tuner.
  
 Video of the technician, hope it's ok to post it!
  
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ki05cpf8wn8u5v/20140216_123326.mp4


----------



## PhoenixG

harrinj said:


> Oh that sucks  I've wanted to find a KR-9600 really bad for a long time. My Kenwood KA-7100 is terrific sounding and also has the best sounding and lowest noise phono input of all my receivers. my KR-7400 is not bad either.
> 
> That's a cool looking turntable. beats my mediocre MMF 5.1...


 
 If you like the 7400, you'll like the 7600 more. I just think that most kenwoods tend towards warmth. They have great build quality, which is audible. I prefer a neutral signature, so though I enjoyed the kr-9600 vastly, especially looking at it, it was just too warm for me.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Warmth - the same reason I have not been much impressed with the vintage Marantz stuff.


----------



## ostewart

Good with Grado and German Maestro headphones  they love the warmth


----------



## MattTCG

speakerbox said:


> Warmth - the same reason I have not been much impressed with the vintage Marantz stuff.


 
  
 +1 
  
 The Marantz is impressive but slightly too warm for me. The Pioneers hit the magic balance of warm and resolution for me.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Do you still have any Pioneer gear, Matt?


----------



## LugBug1

ostewart said:


> All cleaned up:


 
 Nice work, looks good as new!
 (Also, thats really cool having Andrew Poppy as your uncle! I'm a big contemporary classical fan. I'm not massively into the minimalists but I do appreciate the whole movement)


----------



## MattTCG

Somebody around Atlanta should grab this quick...
  
 http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ele/4344930245.html


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Somebody around Atlanta should grab this quick...
> 
> http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ele/4344930245.html


 
 Holy schiit brothers, somebody snap those slinky Mac valve goddesses up!


----------



## ostewart

Yeah it does look good  also he's such a cool guy Andrew Poppy, he's my mum's sisters partner (she is the artist Julia Bardsley, very odd and disturbing but brilliant artwork)
  
 There are a few scratches on the side of the Marantz, I wonder how hard it would be to repaint the main body?


----------



## parbaked

phoenixg said:


> what on earth is that turntable


 
 Looks like an Empire...nice


----------



## Oregonian

Another change for the main system.  I've got about 170 albums, most with one or two plays on them when I bought them to make them in to cassette tapes back in the late 70's.   I've wanted to turn them into CD's and though I have a buddy who can do it, I just wouldn't feel right asking him to do a bunch of them.  So went to Audio Specialties and found the following - a Pioneer PDR-609 CD player/recorder.  Removed the inoperable cassette deck and fit the CD player and the Chase remote control in it's place.


----------



## jgreen16

That's a beautiful SPEC system you have. I regret selling mine on the Bay a few years back, as I had bought the system new while overseas in the Air Force. I never rack mounted mine though, but it sure does look nice that way.
  
 Are those Cerwin-Vega speakers? If so, what model? I'm a JBL guy myself, but have always appreciated the C-V's as well.


----------



## parbaked

> Originally Posted by *Oregonian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Removed the inoperable cassette deck and fit the CD player and the Chase remote control in it's place.


 
 That's not to Spec!


----------



## jgreen16

This is to Spec though. Sold on fleabay for $6000 back in January.


----------



## parbaked




----------



## jgreen16

Surprised to not see a Spec-2 or Spec-4 included in the rack.


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> This is to Spec though. Sold on fleabay for $6000 back in January.


 

 Surprised it "only" fetched $6000.  I've seen systems like mine go for over $2K.  Problem is they are irreplaceable in my opinion.  Yes, you can buy a lot of great stuff but the Spec are rare and rather incredible.


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> That's a beautiful SPEC system you have. I regret selling mine on the Bay a few years back, as I had bought the system new while overseas in the Air Force. I never rack mounted mine though, but it sure does look nice that way.
> 
> Are those Cerwin-Vega speakers? If so, what model? I'm a JBL guy myself, but have always appreciated the C-V's as well.


 

 Thanks.  They are Cerwin Vega DX-3's.  Just had the woofers refoamed a month ago as they finally succumbed to the thumping and age.  They are "only" 10" drivers but dang do they pound. A lot of folks don't respect the CV speakers but I like the sound a lot.  Had a nice pair of Klipsch 3.2's before this and I prefer the CV's.


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> That's not to Spec!


 
  
 You're right, it's not.  I struggled a little with the concept of removing the cassette and breaking up the rack but I'm still keeping it and can put it back to "spec" in ten minutes.  This way is functional and useful.


----------



## jgreen16

There's an original owner Spec-1 and Spec-2 set on the bay right now for $1700. Seller says they are in like new condition. They have been relisted at least twice now that I know of, and didn't get any bites at $1900 or $1800.
  
 I sold mine in late 2003. The Spec-2 got $885 and the Spec-1 went for $530. They were both scratch free, and worked perfectly. I just sold my Pioneer CT-F1000 cassette deck for $125. It powered up, but needed an overhaul, as it would not play, FF or RW. I took the rack handles off and sold them separately. Those got $300. Good thing I had seen the handles getting good money a month or so earlier, otherwise I probably would have sold the deck with them still on for the same $125.


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> There's an original owner Spec-1 and Spec-2 set on the bay right now for $1700. Seller says they are in like new condition. They have been relisted at least twice now that I know of, and didn't get any bites at $1900 or $1800.
> 
> I sold mine in late 2003. The Spec-2 got $885 and the Spec-1 went for $530. They were both scratch free, and worked perfectly. I just sold my Pioneer CT-F1000 cassette deck for $125. It powered up, but needed an overhaul, as it would not play, FF or RW. I took the rack handles off and sold them separately. Those got $300. Good thing I had seen the handles getting good money a month or so earlier, otherwise I probably would have sold the deck with them still on for the same $125.


 

 Was the CTF-1000 sale on flea bay?  I had no idea they would fetch that much, not working.  Mine is the same deal - mint looking, all lights work but either a rubber belt or motor is dead.  And the handles for that much!  Wow...........


----------



## parbaked

oregonian said:


> You're right, it's not.  I struggled a little with the concept of removing the cassette and breaking up the rack but I'm still keeping it and can put it back to "spec" in ten minutes.  This way is functional and useful.


 
 Are you really going to manually copy 170 LPs?
 I would buy your friend 2-3 cases of beer and let 'em at it!


----------



## jgreen16

Yeah, it was on fleabay. I had actually accepted an offer on the rack handles, and saw that the buyer rehabbed vintage cassette decks, so I asked if he was interested. He offered $125, and I took it. He has a CT-F1000 currently listed for $999. I'm doubtful he'll get that much to be honest. He just sold a CT-F1250 for $499 in the last day or so.
  
 I had looked into repairing the deck, and a full on resto was approximately $400. I just couldn't see spending that kind of money though, especially since I've gotten rid of 90% of my cassettes.


----------



## jgreen16

Here's the one I sold. Bought it at the Ramstein AB Base Exchange in August '79 at the same time as my JBL L110's.


----------



## jgreen16

The last remaining pictures of my old Spec stuff, circa late 2003.


----------



## captouch

oregonian said:


> Another change for the main system.  I've got about 170 albums, most with one or two plays on them when I bought them to make them in to cassette tapes back in the late 70's.   I've wanted to turn them into CD's and though I have a buddy who can do it, I just wouldn't feel right asking him to do a bunch of them.  So went to Audio Specialties and found the following - a Pioneer PDR-609 CD player/recorder.  Removed the inoperable cassette deck and fit the CD player and the Chase remote control in it's place.


 
  
 What are those LP holders/speaker stands?  Nice to kill two birds with one stone that way.


----------



## ssrock64

oregonian said:


> Thanks.  They are Cerwin Vega DX-3's.  Just had the woofers refoamed a month ago as they finally succumbed to the thumping and age.  They are "only" 10" drivers but dang do they pound. A lot of folks don't respect the CV speakers but I like the sound a lot.  Had a nice pair of Klipsch 3.2's before this and I prefer the CV's.


 

 The few times that I've heard CV sets, I've been more impressed than I initially assumed I would be. Maybe it's just the neon-color surrounds they have that give the impression of being a low-cost brand to my eyes, but I always seem to underestimate them considerably.


----------



## LugBug1

Lookin good Oregonian. I never get tired of seeing the Spec! 
  
 Though I would argue that just playing the vinyl via ya turntable will sound better than copying them to cd?  Though that is a very nice cd player!


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> Lookin good Oregonian. I never get tired of seeing the Spec!
> 
> Though I would argue that just playing the vinyl via ya turntable will sound better than copying them to cd?  Though that is a very nice cd player!




The reason to copy is to have the music available in my truck CD player and in my other vintage systems, of which I have five, all but one of them having CD players. 

The vinyl will still get used in the music room. Plenty!


----------



## Oregonian

parbaked said:


> Are you really going to manually copy 170 LPs?
> I would buy your friend 2-3 cases of beer and let 'em at it!




No, I'll pick and choose what I copy, and make some mix discs that I want. I have some great old albums.

Mostly it's just another fun extension of this great hobby.


----------



## Oregonian

captouch said:


> What are those LP holders/speaker stands?  Nice to kill two birds with one stone that way.




Found them at a local furniture store, just a couple storage boxes that are perfect for the purpose.


----------



## jasonb

My little SX-750 is still going strong! 
  

 so pretty!


----------



## Skylab

The CT-F1000 is a very high quality cassette deck. They were $600 when new! I have one, and like almost all of these I had to have the idler mechanism replaced. This is the weakness of these in their old age. But once you do that, there are very few cassette decks that are its peer.


----------



## musicman59

Is this guy serious! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/receivers-sansui-qrx-999-100-original-100-working-near-mint-2014-02-23-vintage-equipment-98310-bremerton-wa


----------



## MattTCG

^^ On the internet, you can ask ANY price you want.


----------



## Za Warudo

How much does a Pioneer SX-650 in good condition usually fetch?  I tried one but the high noise floor turned me off from buying it.


----------



## ssrock64

matttcg said:


> ^^ On the internet, you can ask ANY price you want.


 

 And the sad part is that you're likely to find a buyer at almost any price.


----------



## musicman59

matttcg said:


> ^^ On the internet, you can ask ANY price you want.


 
 Well, the guy is just out of his mind and whoever buys it at this price is even worst.


----------



## Skylab

No one is going to buy that for $3,500 I assure you.


----------



## dyang

musicman59 said:


> Is this guy serious!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's another saying that he still want to keep it…


----------



## analogsurviver

parbaked said:


> Are you really going to manually copy 170 LPs?
> I would buy your friend 2-3 cases of beer and let 'em at it!


 
 I thought enticing friends by bribing them with cases of beer into slave labour  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 was the thing of the past ?


----------



## Magick Man

musicman59 said:


> Is this guy serious! :eek:
> http://app.audiogon.com/listings/receivers-sansui-qrx-999-100-original-100-working-near-mint-2014-02-23-vintage-equipment-98310-bremerton-wa




His wife probably told him he had to sell it, so he is... technically... sort of.


----------



## LugBug1

Hey guys I just bought a Sansui qrx999! got it for steal at $3500!!


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> Hey guys I just bought a Sansui qrx999! got it for steal at $3500!!


 
  
 heehee...


----------



## dyang

lugbug1 said:


> Hey guys I just bought a Sansui qrx999! got it for steal at $3500!!


 





 look at me look at me….  hahaha


----------



## parbaked

lugbug1 said:


> Hey guys I just bought a Sansui qrx999! got it for steal at $3500!!


 
 Score...I have some 'special' stuff I am selling...please PM me for prices...


----------



## LugBug1

Is there something I'm missing?


----------



## magiccabbage

I can pick up this system for cheap. - anyone know if its good or crap? I thought this would be the place to ask. Its actually for a friend who is interested
  
 nec aus6000e


----------



## kokushu

So I guess not much people own or have experience with the marantz 1152dc integrated amplifier.  Only one person comment on it so far.  I wonder if its worth it to get it over other integrated amp on the market right now.


----------



## dyang

magiccabbage said:


> I can pick up this system for cheap. - anyone know if its good or crap? I thought this would be the place to ask. Its actually for a friend who is interested
> 
> nec aus6000e


 
 Never listened to them before.  It really depends on how much you're buying it for.  Let yourself determine the right price range for an experience and go from there.  I personally wouldn't spend an arm and a leg for them due to NEC is not really known for high quality, at lease to me…  
  
 Who knows some won't like them, but you might.
  
 TO ME?  I'd turn my head if it were $40+


----------



## dyang

kokushu said:


> So I guess not much people own or have experience with the marantz 1152dc integrated amplifier.  Only one person comment on it so far.  I wonder if its worth it to get it over other integrated amp on the market right now.


 
 It's a cool looking amp.  However, I have not listened to them.  I use to own a 2230 and it's very warm and clean sound hooked up with my cans but I just needed a little more power for my home speakers that's why I got rid of it.
  
 If you like the way it sounds, who cares what anyone thinks or says, keep it or if you want to experience a vintage piece make sure that the price is to your likings.  
  
 Apologies, I can't comment on the marantz 1152dc.


----------



## kokushu

I don't know how it sound that is why I am asking.  I have never touch vintage market before so I lack the knowledge of what is good.  I know a lot of people said these 70's int amp and receiver are good, but is it really better or equal to today over 1k integrated amp?  I could get the 1152 dc for a decent price.  I just want to know if its worth it to get it over buying something brand new.  I could get the 1152dc for $400 with serviced.


----------



## moodyrn

The 1152 is a decent integrated, but if I had 400.00 to spend, it would definitely be on something else.


----------



## Argybargy

New toy.


----------



## PhoenixG

argybargy said:


> New toy.


 
 That is art. This is from a sony STR-6060f and I'm thinking of framing it.
 Bonus points if you can ID the circuit function.


----------



## Argybargy

Hmm, maybe power supply... 4 diodes... a bridge rectifier?


----------



## kokushu

moodyrn said:


> The 1152 is a decent integrated, but if I had 400.00 to spend, it would definitely be on something else.


 
 Like what?


----------



## PhoenixG

argybargy said:


> Hmm, maybe power supply... 4 diodes... a bridge rectifier?


 
 You nailed it! I thought it was awesome since it was the first fully discrete one I've seen in mass produced electronics. And the metal diodes!


----------



## shadow419

phoenixg said:


> You nailed it! I thought it was awesome since it was the first fully discrete one I've seen in mass produced electronics. And the metal diodes!




Really? Both my pioneers have discrete bridge rectifiers, although they use silicon body diodes. SX-434 and SX-680


----------



## analogsurviver

shadow419 said:


> Really? Both my pioneers have discrete bridge rectifiers, although they use silicon body diodes. SX-434 and SX-680


 
 Discrete bridge rectifiers are not that uncommon, most Technics gear I own is built with discrete diodes in this application. There is increased use of "4 diodes in one piece" in lower end equipment - but seeing metal diodes is kind of rare.
  
 In any case, it is the first thing to fly out _chez moi_ - to be replaced by ultra fast and/or schottky type diodes, whichever can be accomodated given the voltage/current requirements.
  
 No piece of gear can be better than its power supply ...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Ayre Acoustics puts heavy emphasis on the PS.  Correctly asserting that is the cornerstone of any audio product.  Their products are very highly regarded.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Ayre Acoustics puts heavy emphasis on the PS.  Correctly asserting that is is the cornerstone of any audio product.  Their products are very highly regarded.


 
 True.
  
 Back in the day, PS Audio was offering an aftermarket upgrade for the inbuilt power supply of its superb PS Audio IV preamplifier. It simply replaced the normal for a preamplifier sized/spec'd transformer - with that of PS Audio's then top POWER amp.  
  

  
  
  

  
Reduced output resistance of the big transformer was audible the first second of listening...


----------



## LugBug1

argybargy said:


> New toy.


 
 I was just about to ask - what the hell is it..? Then I seen 'tube tester' at the bottom  
  
 Nice!


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> I was just about to ask - what the hell is it..? Then I seen 'tube tester' at the bottom
> 
> Nice!


 
 It is THE indespensable "toy" if you are a serious HSD ( Hollow State Device) lover.


----------



## PhoenixG

analogsurviver said:


> Discrete bridge rectifiers are not that uncommon, most Technics gear I own is built with discrete diodes in this application. There is increased use of "4 diodes in one piece" in lower end equipment - but seeing metal diodes is kind of rare.
> 
> In any case, it is the first thing to fly out _chez moi_ - to be replaced by ultra fast and/or schottky type diodes, whichever can be accomodated given the voltage/current requirements.
> 
> No piece of gear can be better than its power supply ...


 
 Exactly, I'm used to a mix of glass diodes and 4-in-1 diodes. This is my first brush with metal diodes - straight out of the 60's.


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> It is THE indespensable "toy" if you are a serious HSD ( Hollow State Device) lover.


 
 I'm sure it is  I had a little fling with tubes a few years back, and it used to bother me not knowing how much juice they had left! 
  
 I noticed you mentioned your 'Technics gear' in your last post. I've just scored for a timewarp SU7300K for £50! Comes with everything as new - orginal box, schematic, manual and even original spare fuses. I'm pretty excited about this one as I'm becoming quite a fan of the old technics stuff. 
  
 Heres a pic from the seller (could have went for the tuner as well but I've really no need and it would just be for decor)


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> I'm sure it is  I had a little fling with tubes a few years back, and it used to bother me not knowing how much juice they had left!
> 
> I noticed you mentioned your 'Technics gear' in your last post. I've just scored for a timewarp SU7300K for £50! Comes with everything as new - orginal box, schematic, manual and even original spare fuses. I'm pretty excited about this one as I'm becoming quite a fan of the old technics stuff.
> 
> Heres a pic from the seller (could have went for the tuner as well but I've really no need and it would just be for decor)


 
 Technics used to produce GREAT gear. Your new SU7300K is a decent performer, but not (too much) to write  home about. In Technics world, that is - it is still a very good amp in world at large.
  
 I have a full complement of the Professional Flat Series - as pictured here by a well known Technics afficionado:
  

  
 You have to ignore the preamp on the top of the tower, it is most likely the SU A-6, from a couple of years later.
 Second from the top is the centerpiece of the Professional Flat Series, the SU-9070 Preamplifier, followed by the SH-9020 VU/Peak Meter, then is ST-9030 Tuner, followed by the SH-9010 Parametric Equalizer, at the bottom are two SE-9060 Power Amplifiers, in this case most likely bridged to mono operation. Both him and me lack the most esoteric and rarer than the proverbial hen's teeth component from the series - the active crossover whose exact type designation escapes my memory at the moment. It was only available in Japan - at bust your balls price.
  
 Professional Flat Series was direct competition to the Pioneer SPEC gear - and in many ways these are comparable. Trouble with matt dark brown Technics finish is that it is EXTREMELY scratch non-resistant - fingernail is all that it takes. Therefore, mint LOOKING samples from this series are far and between and fetch silly money when available. I settled for technically OK units, with sometimes _heavy Damn The Looks _cosmetics - so pics will not be posted.
  
 My "tower" is completely overhauled, upgraded, etc - in other words, it received the full analogsurviver treatment.
 It devoured well in excess of price originally paid for the "donors" in MUCH better than original electrical parts - not to mention labour, research and development.


----------



## LugBug1

Great stuff bud and thanks for sharing that. I'll have to keep an eye out for the flat series. Must say they must be quite rare as I'm always checking out Technics gear here in the uk as they are always in abundance on ebay, but I don't think I've ever come across any of the your flats. I also have a SU V3 and it was one the of the first vintage amps I bought. I still use it on a daily basis because I just love the sound. Hate the looks (which are quite important for me), so it must sound good for me to use it ha. 
  
 Hopefully I'll receive my amp this weekend and I'll post some impressions.


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> Great stuff bud and thanks for sharing that. I'll have to keep an eye out for the flat series. Must say they must be quite rare as I'm always checking out Technics gear here in the uk as they are always in abundance on ebay, but I don't think I've ever come across any of the your flats. I also have a SU V3 and it was one the of the first vintage amps I bought. I still use it on a daily basis because I just love the sound. Hate the looks (which are quite important for me), so it must sound good for me to use it ha.
> 
> Hopefully I'll receive my amp this weekend and I'll post some impressions.


 
 Flats were $$$ - when they were new/current, I was 17, me in Yugoslavia, Technics in the West - and it was pricey even for the rich Westerners. Only trough time machine called ebay it was possible for me to lay hands on these eventually...
  
 And why, on earth, do you think I check _*Technicsland *__- eer, I mean Deutschland (ebay.de) -  _more than anything else ?


----------



## harrinj

I have been trying to get a Marantz 2238 but having a problem with the seller I don't know what the fella's deal is.


----------



## Argybargy

lugbug1 said:


> I'm sure it is  I had a little fling with tubes a few years back, and it used to bother me not knowing how much juice they had left!
> 
> I noticed you mentioned your 'Technics gear' in your last post. I've just scored for a timewarp SU7300K for £50! Comes with everything as new - orginal box, schematic, manual and even original spare fuses. I'm pretty excited about this one as I'm becoming quite a fan of the old technics stuff.
> 
> Heres a pic from the seller (could have went for the tuner as well but I've really no need and it would just be for decor)


 
  
 Love the understated Darth Vader look with a dash of bling from the contrasting silver knobs.


----------



## harrinj

Has anyone hear peeled the dial plastic off a marantz to change the lights? I'm wondering if it might be somewhat easier to do since the meter plastic housings are so brittle that they break but I'm scared to death to try this method. 

 I guess however that one would obviously need to do this to change the Vellum. anyone know of a video on youtube where they show this?


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> And why, on earth, do you think I check _*Technicsland *__- eer, I mean Deutschland (ebay.de) -  _more than anything else ?


 
 I might have to start having the occasional peak there myself... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


argybargy said:


> Love the understated Darth Vader look with a dash of bling from the contrasting silver knobs.


 





 Hopefully should look nice in my silver and dark glass stand  On top of my Technics SL P550 cd player  
  
 Photo's will cometh as soon as the Dark one arrives!


----------



## moodyrn

Nice score LugBug1. It's definitely a looker. I've been keeping an eye out for some vintage technics gear myself. It's Another great brand that don't get talked about much.


----------



## Argybargy

@Moody,  RE: your 500C.  What tubes are you running in the pre-amp ( the pair right behind the tuner string) and the phase inverters?
  
 Currently in the 800C,  I've got late 50's Sylvania short black plates in the phase inverters and 60's Matsu****a with 45deg getters in the preamp.  Liking the sound now, but curious what you've discovered in your tube rolling.


----------



## tipo33

So this question probably sounds crazy but:  Is there any way to convert a Marantz 2245 which is ONLY rated for 120v @ 60hz to 240v @ 50hz?  There is no obvious input power switch.  Are the designs of the 2 power supplies completely different?  Were there places put on all PCB's to solder in the required components to make a conversion?   Thank you.


----------



## analogsurviver

tipo33 said:


> So this question probably sounds crazy but:  Is there any way to convert a Marantz 2245 which is ONLY rated for 120v @ 60hz to 240v @ 50hz?  There is no obvious input power switch.  Are the designs of the 2 power supplies completely different?  Were there places put on all PCB's to solder in the required components to make a conversion?   Thank you.


 
 http://www.hifiengine.com/library/marantz/2245.shtml  
  
 Please see which versions were available and whether it was (de)installing some jumpers with "universal" transformer or it was basically transformer change required.
 I wish you the first variant ...


----------



## calipilot227

harrinj said:


> Has anyone hear peeled the dial plastic off a marantz to change the lights? I'm wondering if it might be somewhat easier to do since the meter plastic housings are so brittle that they break but I'm scared to death to try this method.
> 
> I guess however that one would obviously need to do this to change the Vellum. anyone know of a video on youtube where they show this?


 
  
 It's easy to peel off, as the glue holding it in place is old and dried out. Just go slow so that you don't crack the tuner dial. As for the diffuser, I just used printer paper 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Couldn't even tell the difference. If you're replacing the lamps with LEDs (which I HIGHLY suggest), there's no need to worry about heat.


----------



## PhoenixG

tipo33 said:


> So this question probably sounds crazy but:  Is there any way to convert a Marantz 2245 which is ONLY rated for 120v @ 60hz to 240v @ 50hz?  There is no obvious input power switch.  Are the designs of the 2 power supplies completely different?  Were there places put on all PCB's to solder in the required components to make a conversion?   Thank you.


 
 Check under the hood for a jumper switch. If that's not there, it is wildly impractical. Maybe an external transformer would work better in that case.


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> I'm sure it is  I had a little fling with tubes a few years back, and it used to bother me not knowing how much juice they had left!
> 
> I noticed you mentioned your 'Technics gear' in your last post. I've just scored for a timewarp SU7300K for £50! Comes with everything as new - orginal box, schematic, manual and even original spare fuses. I'm pretty excited about this one as I'm becoming quite a fan of the old technics stuff.
> 
> Heres a pic from the seller (could have went for the tuner as well but I've really no need and it would just be for decor)


 
 Man, I love those black face almost as much as the silver faces!  Sometimes more.................like the Pioneer 5390 (think I have that number wrong) I was lusting over last weekend.
  
 Congrats LugBug - nice addition!


----------



## harrinj

calipilot227 said:


> It's easy to peel off, as the glue holding it in place is old and dried out. Just go slow so that you don't crack the tuner dial. As for the diffuser, I just used printer paper
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well I was gonna upgrade my Marantz 4270 next and peeling off the dial face seems like the best option because it's screwed up in there. Yes putting LED's in it. I don't know about the Bi-Pin lights. know anyone on ebay that sells those as LEDs? 

 whenever I search it, I get Raspberry Pi crap...


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> Nice score LugBug1. It's definitely a looker. I've been keeping an eye out for some vintage technics gear myself. It's Another great brand that don't get talked about much.


 
 Cheers bud. Yeah my little experience with Technics is very positive. I'm keen to hear how this 1977 amp will stack up against my later 1981 'new class A' model. The new class A amps were very popular and faired well in the hifi press. I remember my Dad buying one at the time.. I remember it well because he told me that it had a little computer built inside! That seemed wild ha, researching now I realise it was the V505 and it had this :-

  
  


oregonian said:


> Man, I love those black face almost as much as the silver faces!  Sometimes more.................like the Pioneer 5390 (think I have that number wrong) I was lusting over last weekend.
> 
> Congrats LugBug - nice addition!


 
 Cheers bud, yeah I do like the black look. The problem was though, by the mid 80's everything went black. Black with as many knobs, buttons and gadgets as poss haha. I think the aesthetics went down hill for sure at this time, and it became more about boys toys and the latest gadgets over style and arguably substance.   
 But as we all know here, there was a golden age before all this happened and the above amp is defo in that bracket. Meters! I don't think the later designers appreciated how much we like meters!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

On the Marantz units I have worked on (2215, 2215B, 2220B, and 2230) there was no need to peel anything.  After taking the top cover off the lamp assemblies were accessible from the back.  Just had to remove a couple of screws.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

I'm thinking of parting with the Marantz 2240 that I got from Skylab - it's not refurbished but sounds very sounds good, with crackly knobs when they are turned.  The local shop wants $150 and 12 weeks wait time to clean it up, and I just don't use it enough to do that. It drives my HE-6 and HD800 quite well, but I've been using the HiFiMan EF6 these days.
  
 Is there anyone local in Colorado that would clean it up for a fair price, or just take it off my hands for a fair price?


----------



## Oregonian

headphoneaddict said:


> I'm thinking of parting with the Marantz 2240 that I got from Skylab - it's not refurbished but sounds very sounds good, with crackly knobs when they are turned.  The local shop wants $150 and 12 weeks wait time to clean it up, and I just don't use it enough to do that. It drives my HE-6 and HD800 quite well, but I've been using the HiFiMan EF6 these days.
> 
> Is there anyone local in Colorado that would clean it up for a fair price, or just take it off my hands for a fair price?




Have you considered a Deoxit treatment yourself? Easy to do.......


----------



## LugBug1

^^ Exactly, if it 'sounds good' then don't fix it. A quick Deoxit will take care of the noisy controls and can clean the sound up too.


----------



## HeadphoneAddict

No, I don't want to take the cover off and I have way too many amplifiers to listen to them all right now. If it was my only amp that could drive speakers or a HE-6 well then it might be worth the effort. I'm at 60% normal lung function, so I also don't want to deal with the fumes. I probably should just let it go.


----------



## moodyrn

argybargy said:


> @Moody,  RE: your 500C.  What tubes are you running in the pre-amp ( the pair right behind the tuner string) and the phase inverters?
> 
> Currently in the 800C,  I've got late 50's Sylvania short black plates in the phase inverters and 60's Matsu****a with 45deg getters in the preamp.  Liking the sound now, but curious what you've discovered in your tube rolling.




Lol I haven't done any tube rolling surprisingly. It came with the stock tubes which happen to be Telefunkens. So I left them in place. That's another thing I like about vintage tube gear(provided they test well). There are no cheap Chinese tubes to worry about getting rid of. But I must admit, I have contemplated going for sylvannia blackplates to warm things up a bit.


----------



## Oregonian

headphoneaddict said:


> No, I don't want to take the cover off and I have way too many amplifiers to listen to them all right now. If it was my only amp that could drive speakers or a HE-6 well then it might be worth the effort. I'm at 60% normal lung function, so I also don't want to deal with the fumes. I probably should just let it go.




Wish I lived near you. I'd do it for you gratis and be happy to do so.


----------



## Argybargy

moodyrn said:


> Lol I haven't done any tube rolling surprisingly. It came with the stock tubes which happen to be Telefunkens. So I left them in place. That's another thing I like about vintage tube gear(provided they test well). There are no cheap Chinese tubes to worry about getting rid of. But I must admit, I have contemplated going for sylvannia blackplates to warm things up a bit.




Good 'nuff!
Three of the four positions in the 800c had original smooth plate telefunkens- very smooth mids. The sylvania blackplates added just a touch of warmth which was negated by the matsu$hitas- sparkly extended treble, detailed, crisp and focused imaging. An overlooked tube IMO.


----------



## stevensctt

Picked up this Kenwood KR 9050 today, local purchase.  Everything works as it should, looks and sounds fantastic.


----------



## moodyrn

argybargy said:


> Good 'nuff!
> Three of the four positions in the 800c had original smooth plate telefunkens- very smooth mids. The sylvania blackplates added just a touch of warmth which was negated by the matsu$hitas- sparkly extended treble, detailed, crisp and focused imaging. An overlooked tube IMO.


 
  
 Interesting. I've never heard that brand of tubes before. I might have to try one out one day. So the sylvannias did add just a touch of warmth. I think I may have to add that to my saved list.


stevensctt said:


> Picked up this Kenwood KR 9050 today, local purchase.  Everything works as it should, looks and sounds fantastic.


 
 Wow, stunning. That's a beautiful receiver, and the best kenwood ever made imo. You scored big!! Congrats.


----------



## Silent One

Beautiful! There's something about levers on vintage iron that just makes you wanna... (don't make me say it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## LugBug1

stevensctt said:


> Picked up this Kenwood KR 9050 today, local purchase.  Everything works as it should, looks and sounds fantastic.


 
 Sweet Mamas apple crumble thats a beauty!!


----------



## Skylab

No kidding! That's an awesome looking Kenny. Congrats.


----------



## harrinj

speakerbox said:


> On the Marantz units I have worked on (2215, 2215B, 2220B, and 2230) there was no need to peel anything.  After taking the top cover off the lamp assemblies were accessible from the back.  Just had to remove a couple of screws.


 
 The little plastic bit holding the lamp in place on the meters always breaks, after I posted that I realized you had to change the meter lights that way anyways. The lights behind the dial face I change from the back yeah.


----------



## kokushu

So beside the radio tuner and the look is there any reason to get a receiver over a vintage integrated amp?


----------



## harrinj

I was finally able to pick up the Marantz 2238 this morning that I've been trying to get. I think this is the best sounding receiver I have and it's so neat looking. All the lights except the Stereo indicator are burnt out and I cannot wait to get LEDs in there. The 2226B and this 2238 are the best sounding of my Marantz collection with the 2238 being the best  

 I get my LED's from a place in Beaverton, OR but at $5 a lamp that's just ridiculous. Anyone know of a better source for fuse LED's?


----------



## harrinj

stevensctt said:


> Picked up this Kenwood KR 9050 today, local purchase.  Everything works as it should, looks and sounds fantastic.


 
 WOW!


----------



## parbaked

kokushu said:


> So beside the radio tuner and the look is there any reason to get a receiver over a vintage integrated amp?


 
 Nope...


----------



## Oregonian

kokushu said:


> So beside the radio tuner and the look is there any reason to get a receiver over a vintage integrated amp?




Nope. Separates are generally expected to have better internals as no space constraints.


----------



## jgreen16

As I have posted in this thread previously, I had Pioneer Spec equipment in the past. I regret having sold the equipment, and would really like to obtain some Spec stuff again, but am curious as to whether they have any "unobtainium" repair parts ala the SX-X80 and SX-XX80 series of receivers?


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> As I have posted in this thread previously, I had Pioneer Spec equipment in the past. I regret having sold the equipment, and would really like to obtain some Spec stuff again, but am curious as to whether they have any "unobtainium" repair parts ala the SX-X80 and SX-XX80 series of receivers?




Not sure but I had my Spec 2 amp in the shop for multiple times to find a pesky issue that in the end was a cold solder issue and my tech did remark he could find just about anything it needed or up rate it.


----------



## jgreen16

That's good to hear. I'm on the lookout for a nice condition Spec1 and 2 combo in the $1200-1300 range. Does that seem reasonable, or are really nice working specimens commanding higher prices?


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> That's good to hear. I'm on the lookout for a nice condition Spec1 and 2 combo in the $1200-1300 range. Does that seem reasonable, or are really nice working specimens commanding higher prices?




That sounds right. Are you a member on Audiokarma? For $25 you get access to barter town which is a great resource for buying equipment.


----------



## jgreen16

I read AudioKarma, but it sounds like I need to spend the $25 to fully utilize the site. Should be money well spent.


----------



## harrinj

This 2238 is the best sounding Marantz receiver I've heard. All the grime cleaned up, just the Stereo light works and can't wait to put LED's in!


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> I read AudioKarma, but it sounds like I need to spend the $25 to fully utilize the site. Should be money well spent.




It really is. I use Barter Town for the albums and CD's I've bought. And got my Pioneer integrated amp there as well.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> This 2238 is the best sounding Marantz receiver I've heard. All the grime cleaned up, just the Stereo light works and can't wait to put LED's in!




That's an impressive stack buddy! Did you just get the 2238?


----------



## harrinj

Yup yesterday the seller and I was fianlly able to meet. Ive tried to get it the last couple times it was posted but didnt have any money. I'd like to find a 4300, 2270, 2275 and a clean 4270 now.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Yup yesterday the seller and I was fianlly able to meet. Ive tried to get it the last couple times it was posted but didnt have any money. I'd like to find a 4300, 2270, 2275 and a clean 4270 now.


 

 Wait.  You're going to corner the market in Oregon on Marantz and basically get one of each model?  Good for you...............don't have to worry about me disrupting your Marantz monopoly bud.  I'll actually be looking for them for you. 
  
 Does Doug still have that hugely expensive one still?


----------



## LugBug1

My Technics SU-7300K (1976-7) came yesterday. This has to be the best condition I've seen yet with a vintage amp. It could have come straight from the factory! Immaculate inside and out. The sound is different from my Technics SU-V3 which I rate very highly. The 7300 is more refined and balanced, where as the later V3 is more fun sounding with a slight bass and top end emphasis. Best thing is it only cost me £50! Crazy!!
  
 Anyways, heres some picy's


----------



## Oregonian

Lug Bug, very nice! Looks lika my Kenwood with the meters but that black face is gorgeous.


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Lug Bug, very nice! Looks lika my Kenwood with the meters but that black face is gorgeous.


 
 Cheers buddy


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Wait.  You're going to corner the market in Oregon on Marantz and basically get one of each model?  Good for you...............don't have to worry about me disrupting your Marantz monopoly bud.  I'll actually be looking for them for you.
> 
> Does Doug still have that hugely expensive one still?


 
 hahaha. There's really been none posted this year on CL for some reason well except by that nutty expensive place in beaverton... And yes the 2325 I believe so but at $999 I don't think anyone is gonna touch it but hey someone actually bought that 2275 at $850 so I guess some one with money to burn will walk in there and buy it sometime... they are probably on consignment though. He also had a Kenwood KA-8300 I wanted to get but I think it's gone  

 this is more nuts another 2325. What's with these asinine prices??? http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4346734424.html

 I tried to get a mint 4270 that was posted on CL in Vancouver in November last year he wanted $300 for it and it had the wood case. I pleaded with him to let me get it but someone else was coming


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> hahaha. There's really been none posted this year on CL for some reason well except by that nutty expensive place in beaverton... And yes the 2325 I believe so but at $999 I don't think anyone is gonna touch it but hey someone actually bought that 2275 at $850 so I guess some one with money to burn will walk in there and buy it sometime... they are probably on consignment though. He also had a Kenwood KA-8300 I wanted to get but I think it's gone
> 
> 
> this is more nuts another 2325. What's with these asinine prices??? http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4346734424.html
> ...




I'm seeing quite a few vintage on CL actually since the Xmas season emptied the inventory. Not Marantz but lots of other interesting stuff. I got the Yamaha R700 a couple weeks ago from that lingerie place in Vancouver. He has a Toshiba 7500 which looks larger than a Pioneer 1280 if you can believe it!


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> I'm seeing quite a few vintage on CL actually since the Xmas season emptied the inventory. Not Marantz but lots of other interesting stuff. I got the Yamaha R700 a couple weeks ago from that lingerie place in Vancouver. He has a Toshiba 7500 which looks larger than a Pioneer 1280 if you can believe it!


 
 Oh thats cool! that Yamaha looks neat.

  Yeah there has been vintage stuff just not Marantz! Portland before November had a lot of Marantz posted all the time... 

 I went to Audio specialties after Christmas and he was just about out of stock. that was crazy!!! also tried to get a 2270 in Eugene, he had two of them both with wood cases and they were there forever but looked last month and both were gone


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Oh thats cool! that Yamaha looks neat.
> 
> 
> Yeah there has been vintage stuff just not Marantz! Portland before November had a lot of Marantz posted all the time...
> ...




There's a 4200 I think in Vancouver I think for $150 on CL.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> There's a 4200 I think in Vancouver I think for $150 on CL.


 
 Do you mean a 4300? I don't see it


----------



## moodyrn

lugbug1 said:


> My Technics SU-7300K (1976-7) came yesterday. This has to be the best condition I've seen yet with a vintage amp. It could have come straight from the factory! Immaculate inside and out. The sound is different from my Technics SU-V3 which I rate very highly. The 7300 is more refined and balanced, where as the later V3 is more fun sounding with a slight bass and top end emphasis. Best thing is it only cost me £50! Crazy!!


 
 Nice!! Congrats on finally receiving it.


----------



## jaytee61

I've got a "R" series Yamaha from the early 80's as well. It's an R2000 rated at 150wpc. I bought it brand new along with a bunch of other classic pieces. They sound great with my JBL L112's. The only thing I've had to do is replace the STK's once. I also have a Fisher CA880 integrated. Another STK based unit. I've got a line on a McIntosh MC2500/C33 duo. Hopefully it all comes to fruition.


----------



## kokushu

So I end up buying the marantz 1152dc and hope that I didn't waste my money with it.  I was wondering if I want to add a sub to a speaker setup amp my the marantz is that possible.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> Nice!! Congrats on finally receiving it.


----------



## Oregonian

jaytee61 said:


> I've got a "R" series Yamaha from the early 80's as well. It's an R2000 rated at 150wpc. I bought it brand new along with a bunch of other classic pieces. They sound great with my JBL L112's. The only thing I've had to do is replace the STK's once. I also have a Fisher CA880 integrated. Another STK based unit. I've got a line on a McIntosh MC2500/C33 duo. Hopefully it all comes to fruition.




I've got that same Fisher as well. What is this STK you refer to?


----------



## analogsurviver

I use the term "collateral damage" while browsing the internet and discovering some other related interesting stuff.
  
 I guess I will have to add "virtual" to the above kind of collateral damage - because while we were trying all their "toys" with all of my "toys" in order to achieve the best possible sound quality of the pending Livestream of a concert this Sunday evening I will be providing audio for, I spotted this guy ( OK, in English would be gal ) gathering dust on a remote shelf :
  

  

 Sorry for blurry pic - it is a NAD 7030.
  
 After saying that I love restoring vintage gear, this became the 1st *Tangible *Collateral Damage - the owner gave it to me for free, declaring he is happy that she found a good new home.
  
 Unfortunately, the light show seen in pics is the only thing this receiver uttered. No sound, tuner meters do not react to anything. I was hoping it is only the speaker output fuses - but discovering that fuses are not only intact, but instead of rated 3.15 A replaced by 10 A 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - you get the picture...
  
 I will try to ressurect her, time permitting.


----------



## PhoenixG

analogsurviver said:


> * but instead of rated 3.15 A replaced by 10 A*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 YIKES! Beautiful, but tragic. Bon courage.


----------



## joincoolkidclub

I'm new to 'vintage' and am looking at the following receivers/integrated amps, any ideas?
  
 -*Harman Kardon HK 730 2 Channel 80 Watt Stereo Receiver Twin Powered*
*-NAD 302 Amplifier*
*-NAD 7140 AM-FM STEREO RECEIVER*
 -*Marantz 1030 Integrated Amplifier*
*-**SANSUI AU-2200*
*-Any other options in the <200$ range?*
  
 I'm not one to hear or attribute significantly different sound signatures in amps (but I am sensitive to distortion and noise), just looking for something to drive my headphones and speakers to moderate listening levels. Tuner or not makes no difference either.


----------



## SpeakerBox

joincoolkidclub said:


> I'm new to 'vintage' and am looking at the following receivers/integrated amps, any ideas?
> 
> -*Harman Kardon HK 730 2 Channel 80 Watt Stereo Receiver Twin Powered*
> *-NAD 302 Amplifier*
> ...


 
  
 Hard to beat the sound of a Sherwood S-7200 or S-7100A for the price.  Both usually obtainable for less than $100 on that well known auction site.


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


> YIKES! Beautiful, but tragic. Bon courage.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Hard to beat the sound of a Sherwood S-7200 or S-7100A for the price.  Both usually obtainable for less than $100 on that well known auction site.


 
 Sherwoods are really nice sounding.


----------



## Argybargy

joincoolkidclub said:


> I'm new to 'vintage' and am looking at the following receivers/integrated amps, any ideas?
> 
> -[COLOR=333333]*Harman Kardon HK 730 2 Channel 80 Watt Stereo Receiver Twin Powered*[/COLOR]
> *[COLOR=333333]-[/COLOR]NAD 302 Amplifier*
> ...





HK730s sound nice and crisp when re-capped. They have more oomph to the sound then you might expect from the 40ish watts/channel due to the twin transformer design. The pots and switches are of lower quality however and likely to be noisy and require repeated treatment with deoxit. Usually quite cheap.

If I were in your shoes I'd look for a Marantz 2230 or lower level Marantz 22xx receiver on your local CL. They can be had for under $200 if youre patient-- nice quiet preamp sections and generally good build quality.


----------



## Oregonian

joincoolkidclub said:


> I'm new to 'vintage' and am looking at the following receivers/integrated amps, any ideas?
> 
> -*Harman Kardon HK 730 2 Channel 80 Watt Stereo Receiver Twin Powered*
> *-NAD 302 Amplifier*
> ...


 

 I'm generalizing, but any vintage integrated amp will be a good choice for headphone duty, as well as doubling as a speaker amp.  I'd take my RCA hookups along with my iPod and headphones and listen to your choices.  Think you'll be blown away as I was the first time I listened to digital music through my first vintage amp, the Kenwood KA-5700.  Could not believe the sound and the bass! 
  
 And the only reason to get a receiver is if you still listen to FM.  I have not in years with iPods and Pandora/Spotify.


----------



## jaytee61

oregonian said:


> I've got that same Fisher as well. What is this STK you refer to?




The "STK pack" as it is commonly referred to is a large electronic component within the power amp circuit that takes the place of many power transistors in a discrete type of circuit layout. The problem with them is that when they go, you have to track one down and replace the entire pack as opposed to replacing a single common component. At least this is how I understand it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jaytee61 said:


> The "STK pack" as it is commonly referred to is a large electronic component within the power amp circuit that tales the place of many power transistors in a discrete type of circuit layout. The problem with them is that when they go, you have to track one down and replace the entire pack as opposed to replacing a single common component. At least this is how I understand it.


 
  
 Yes, that is correct.  They can be a pain to find depending on which one is installed.


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> I will try to ressurect her, time permitting.


 
 I do love the older NAD stuff. They have a unique sound IME. To me they sound like what some peeps think tubes sound like - thick and syrupy ha.. Good luck with this one, I'll be watching


----------



## joincoolkidclub

Thanks for all the feedback.  The hardest part is living in rural New England and not having immediate access to any hi-fi shops or a very active Craigslist.  This makes eBay almost a necessity and unfortunately Marantz receivers seem to command a premium.  Good to know about the Sherwood receivers.


----------



## shadow419

joincoolkidclub said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.  The hardest part is living in rural New England and not having immediate access to any hi-fi shops or a very active Craigslist.  This makes eBay almost a necessity and unfortunately Marantz receivers seem to command a premium.  Good to know about the Sherwood receivers.




Don't discount area flea markets, pawn shops, and if you can wait for it to warm up a bit yard sales. I ended up fixing the two receivers I picked up myself, but it's not a super complicated process. Simple soldering, with loads of information and people willing to help online. Good luck


----------



## Oregonian

joincoolkidclub said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.  The hardest part is living in rural New England and not having immediate access to any hi-fi shops or a very active Craigslist.  This makes eBay almost a necessity and unfortunately Marantz receivers seem to command a premium.  Good to know about the Sherwood receivers.


 

 And joining Audiokarma Barter Town can net you another good source to buy units at reasonable prices, compared to Ebay.


----------



## joincoolkidclub

More good ideas.  Is the major benefit to Barter Town lower prices and more variety than the classifieds here?


----------



## Oregonian

joincoolkidclub said:


> More good ideas.  Is the major benefit to Barter Town lower prices and more variety than the classifieds here?


 

 The classified on Barter Town are focused on vintage amps and turntables, speakers, etc, rather than the headphones and headphone amps here.  I bought a nice Pioneer vintage integrated amp for $130 on Barter Town - very happy with the whole transaction.


----------



## moodyrn

Agreed. Although you do see some headphone goodies from to time, I wouldn't pay the subscription cost if I was strictly looking for dedicated headphone gear. Just like if this site charged a fee to view the classified ads, I wouldn't pay it if I was strictly  looking for a pair of speakers although some are posted here from time to time as well.


----------



## joseph69

Any value to these?
  

 Thet are being sold at an estate sale 10 minutes from where I live.


----------



## calipilot227

Looks to be early-'80s Marantz gear. I'd snag it if they aren't asking too much.


----------



## moodyrn

It wouldn't be worth my time if it was free. But hey, that's just me. I like marantz, but that's not a good example of vintage marantz at all.


----------



## joseph69

Just didn't know.


----------



## MIKELAP

What the consensus on  the Yamaha CR 1020 is this example a good deal at  $285.00 or is it to expensive i think its from late 70's and would Senns HD 800 be a good match for this amp it looks pretty good to me .Heres a few pictures of the amp  . Thanks guys.


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful receiver and great sounding I'm sure. It's well documented however that it is full of unobtainable parts, so a repair isn't going to happen if it has a major issue.


----------



## MIKELAP

skylab said:


> Beautiful receiver and great sounding I'm sure. It's well documented however that it is full of unobtainable parts, so a repair isn't going to happen if it has a major issue.


 
 Good to know thanks a bunch.


----------



## Magick Man

joseph69 said:


> Any value to these?
> 
> 
> 
> Thet are being sold at an estate sale 10 minutes from where I live.




If you're looking for a cheap, but decent, system for a garage or for work, it would be fine.


----------



## joseph69

magick man said:


> If you're looking for a cheap, but decent, system for a garage or for work, it would be fine.


 
 No, I just didn't know if it was worth going too check them out being I'm 10 minutes away.


----------



## ssrock64

joseph69 said:


> No, I just didn't know if it was worth going too check them out being I'm 10 minutes away.


 
 If it's inexpensive you might as well snag the and see how it sounds to you. You might like it more than the general consensus.


----------



## moodyrn

mikelap said:


> What the consensus on  the Yamaha CR 1020 is this example a good deal at  $285.00 or is it to expensive i think its from late 70's and would Senns HD 800 be a good match for this amp it looks pretty good to me .Heres a few pictures of the amp  . Thanks guys.




Now that is what I would call a great representation of a vintage receiver; simply gorgeous! But be careful, like Skylab said, it's full of unobtainium parts. So it is a bit of a risk.


----------



## ssrock64

I love those thin rectangular knobs; you don't see that very often.


----------



## Magick Man

I'll leave this right here... talk about fresh.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-CR-1020-Vintage-Stereo-Receiver-CR1020-/291096207725


----------



## harrinj

Got LED's in it tonight and it sure is NICE! However the Stereo and dial pointer stopped working but I'm hopefully getting those LED's in the mail tomorrow. Hey I'm wondering if anyone might know a fix for this. the stereo meter appears to be kinda stuck and pointing to the right hand side a little bit. Does anyone here know how to remedy that? It changes a tiny bit in FM mode but other than that it does not. the signal meter appears to be good but the tuner does not pull anything in by itself at all. 

 When I was putting the lights in, I saw that who ever was in there last must have had a hell of a time getting new lights in. the holders were all bent and the plastic was broke and juryrigged with wire to stay in place but it still works AND I didn't need to change the vellum


----------



## Mach-X

Does anybody have any idea why audio companies don't build receivers with any style any more? They are all ubiquitous black boxes. Only harmann kardon have their own distinct style any more...


----------



## harrinj

mach-x said:


> Does anybody have any idea why audio companies don't build receivers with any style any more? They are all ubiquitous black boxes. Only harmann kardon have their own distinct style any more...


 
 the masses want cheap generic stuff. They wont buy expensive quality amps. Everything today is crap Chinese or somewhere like that made garbage with the same parts.

 These vintage receivers were actually very expensive back then.


----------



## Skylab

harrinj said:


> the masses want cheap generic stuff. They wont buy expensive quality amps.
> 
> These vintage receivers were actually very expensive back then.




That's it exactly. People were willing to spend more money on a stereo back then, because they only needed that and a TV. No computer, no game console, no smartphone to suck up the same discretionary dollars. And so there were a lot more stereos for the masses that were great.

You can get super stylish audio gear today, but it's the super expensive stuff.


----------



## kokushu

My marantz 1152dc have weird noise on the left channel and sometimes both channel would be silence.  After a while it does come back to normal.  I was wondering what cause this and what could I do to fix it?


----------



## Baxide

When you get those noises, select an input that has no sound and turn the volume control quickly up and down. Then try the input again that you have music playing. Find out if the noise has gone. This will tell you if the volume control needs cleaning with dioxit or any of those electronic cleaning fluids. If it isn't that then you are looking at a lot more diagnostic work.


----------



## LugBug1

After spending a week with my latest Technics SU-7300k and comparing it with my other amps, I'm confident in stating that it is the best sounding one I've owned yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 How is it the best I hear you ask??
  
 Well, trying to put it into language - nothing stands out.. Nothing grabs your attention. It is clear, not too soft or too hard or too bassy or anything. Just nice honest sound. It would be perfect if only for the slightest (and I mean very slight) hiss with the HD800 when no music is playing and you listen very hard. But there aren't many vintage amps that are black quiet with the Senn's.   
  
 I'm still astounded by the condition of this amp. It must have been packed away for 99% of its life. 
  
 Anyways, I just wanted to selfishly rant about my new amp haha. Heres a pic with a much better camera than I usually use.


----------



## moodyrn

I love to read impressions like this. Congrats. This is what it's all about...well mostly lol.


----------



## LugBug1

Cheers Moody


----------



## harrinj

I got the two LED's I ordered from ebay for the tuner dial and the stereo indicator and installed them yesterday. Whoever was in this 2238 last was a total moron. Between the bent lamp holders (they seem to have bent the metal holders to get the lights out...) They glued the tuner dial housing shut for some odd reason and I had a hell of a time getting that tuner lamp housing off but finally did. The light was a little bigger so I could not get the housing lid back on it so just used some electrical tape to hold it down.


----------



## ssrock64

harrinj said:


> I got the two LED's I ordered from ebay for the tuner dial and the stereo indicator and installed them yesterday. Whoever was in this 2238 last was a total moron. Between the bent lamp holders (they seem to have bent the metal holders to get the lights out...) They glued the tuner dial housing shut for some odd reason and I had a hell of a time getting that tuner lamp housing off but finally did. The light was a little bigger so I could not get the housing lid back on it so just used some electrical tape to hold it down.


 

 I once brought in my SX780 somewhere to be cleaned and have bulbs replaced, and they glued the bulbs back in with glue that wasn't heat-resistant. Whenever the unit was turned on for more than a few minutes, the glue would begin to melt and drip all over the string for the tuner, and eventually some of the bulbs started to fall out. I didn't notice what was wrong until I opened the thing up because the tuner had started acting weird (due to the globs of glue all over it).
  
 For some reason, people aren't very smart when it comes to installing bulbs in these things.


----------



## LugBug1




----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> After spending a week with my latest Technics SU-7300k and comparing it with my other amps, I'm confident in stating that it is the best sounding one I've owned yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good for you my friend!  So it's got the looks and the legs................what more could you ask?  Enjoy it!


----------



## MIKELAP

ssrock64 said:


> I once brought in my SX780 somewhere to be cleaned and have bulbs replaced, and they glued the bulbs back in with glue that wasn't heat-resistant. Whenever the unit was turned on for more than a few minutes, the glue would begin to melt and drip all over the string for the tuner, and eventually some of the bulbs started to fall out. I didn't notice what was wrong until I opened the thing up because the tuner had started acting weird (due to the globs of glue all over it).
> 
> For some reason, people aren't very smart when it comes to installing bulbs in these things.


 
 One word summs it up LOGIC !


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Good for you my friend!  So it's got the looks and the legs................what more could you ask?  Enjoy it!


 






 Yup its gonna be hard for me to top this one. But its still early days for me and vintage though...


----------



## ssrock64

lugbug1 said:


>


 
 Haha, that was the perfect graphic for the situation. It made me scratch my head, since this shop is well known locally for vintage receiver repair. Somebody must've just not been thinking that day, or trying out a new glue.


----------



## dogwan

Hey Portland peeps.....
  
 someone should jump on this. SX-980 and SX-1050 in boxes!
  
 I have no funds or need. AND, I have no affiliation.
  
 It will probably not last long.
  
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4367875299.html


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, I am down right giddy. I have had some major changes to my system. The 1980 is still the anchor, but the MR-78 tuner has joined the party as the new FM expert. I also added a distribution amp (Key Digital KD-HMDI2X4P) so I could put my tv, cable, and dvd player hdmi/digital/optical inputs in as L/R inputs. It has 4 outputs, so I can A/B amps, as well as speakers, without changing input cables. The tuner and aux inputs are still direct coupled to prevent any noise on what I'd consider to be the "important" inputs.
 You might also see the XR-250 speakers. I am really thrilled to have found a pair of these. They do sound great, despite my mediocre room setup. My initial impression is that they have fantastic bass. They don't need "loudness" to sound good, just a more or less flat amp (maybe they need ~3db of midrange added, hard to say yet). They are certainly not very efficient. I think they're rated at 84 dB of sensitivity compared to average speakers that will do more like 90+ at 1 watt. I don't mind - I just turn it up a bit more and get a better show from the dancing VU meters! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They are rated for a recommended 250 W/300 W max  per channel amp, so they are really well suited for this application (270 max continuous/channel). I think I'm going to like these a LOT. I certainly like looking at them.
  
 It's hard to say when to call it quits on collecting, but this is certainly going to be hard to top.


----------



## Skylab

Super cool, Phoenix!


----------



## Silent One

Beautifully displayed, PhoenixG.


----------



## LugBug1

^^ what they said^^^ lovely jubbly PhoenixG!


----------



## Oregonian

dogwan said:


> Hey Portland peeps.....
> 
> someone should jump on this. SX-980 and SX-1050 in boxes!
> 
> ...


 

 I tried to respond but reply button no workie....................now looks like it sold.


----------



## kokushu

baxide said:


> When you get those noises, select an input that has no sound and turn the volume control quickly up and down. Then try the input again that you have music playing. Find out if the noise has gone. This will tell you if the volume control needs cleaning with dioxit or any of those electronic cleaning fluids. If it isn't that then you are looking at a lot more diagnostic work.


 
 It doesn't alway fix it but usually if I turn it off or wait it through it does return to normal.  The pre out actually make my subwoofer goes crazy sometimes.  There is also a small buzzing noise when the sound is low that never goes away.  This is becoming more of a hassle than I thought.  I never use deoxit before so I don't know what really to do with it.


----------



## terry parr

congrats on the 7300k!  very attractive-looking piece.  i've been snagging some pics from this thread to use as my screenshot on my laptop, and i went ahead and snagged this one, too.
  
 i think it's great that this vintage gear represented here on this thread  is being appreciated and enjoyed.
  
 i was able to pick up a *carver cm-1090* recently (which had a few issues that the owner had no idea how to repair, and didn't know of a repair shop).  luckily, i already knew of a good repair shop, since i had seen some carver gear in this shop months before getting this carver piece.  granted, this particular model isn't "the last word", or the most sought-after carver amp from that era, since other models that were made at about the same time fetch a higher selling price, or get better reviews overall.  but, i'm really enjoying this integrated.  it has a fairly "refined" sound (a bit of tube quality-sound) that i would use to describe it (at least for a solid-state piece).
  
 the real trick these days, is if you _do_ come across a nice older piece, then you're left finding someone willing and able to work on it and service it (by somebody who really knows what they're doing).  these guys are getting harder and harder to find.  it was easier back in the 70's to find repair shops that worked on stuff when a lot of young people were into "hi-fi" and would sit and listen to music, and invite people over to hear "their new album."    not so much anymore.  on both counts.
  
 i was lucky on my carver.  the repair tech was really good, and he was already experienced working on carver gear and he was able to replace the parts that i needed with oem pieces.
  
 that's the trick these days with this older gear, though.  finding good quality replacement parts, then finding somebody qualified to troubleshoot difficulties if and when problems come up.


----------



## joehalo

This is my dad's system in his bedroom. SA-9500II, TX-8500II, CT-F900, SG-9800 and PL-630
  

 Here is what he has collecting dust in his garage. Trying to convince him to give me the Sansui... It deserves better than garage duty lol!


----------



## Silent One

Ooh Sweet 'G' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 get it outta the garage would ya?!


----------



## LugBug1

terry parr said:


>


 
 Welcome and congrats on the Carver! Great amps (havent heard one myself but have read many good things about them.) You are right about finding a good repair Tech these days. Hard to find. 
   
  


joehalo said:


> This is my dad's system in his bedroom. SA-9500II, TX-8500II, CT-F900, SG-9800 and PL-630
> 
> 
> Here is what he has collecting dust in his garage. Trying to convince him to give me the Sansui... It deserves better than garage duty lol!


 
 Your Dad has some fantastic gear there buddy. Clean his car and then tell him that your hifi has broken... And 'does he have anything in the garage could tide you over for now'


----------



## wotts

That is some amazing garage gear!
  
 I picked up a Sony STR-7035 for the shop this weekend. It sounds good, but after the 1250/1980 it is hard not to discriminate. I can't wait to get my 2230 recap completed!


----------



## Oregonian

joehalo said:


> This is my dad's system in his bedroom. SA-9500II, TX-8500II, CT-F900, SG-9800 and PL-630
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looking at the Spec rack..........it's missing an AMP!?!? What is driving it? Never mind, it's not a Spec 1 preamp I was seeing. Nice!

Love the garage system. I have both a Fisher 800C driving TV audio system and a Yamaha R700 for audio in mine...........we all cray.


----------



## dyang

I sure would like to listen or own a G series Sansui…


----------



## terry parr

what's interesting to me (and something that i've come to realize over the last couple of years after auditioning a few current integrated amps, such as the *anthem 225*, the *marantz pm 8004*,and the *cambridge audio 651-A*), is that the headphone output section in these newer amps left me disappointed. compared with the h/p out from an amp 20-30 years old!
  
 i took the trouble to audition all three of the above amps the same way:  took my rotel rcd-1520 cdp, three or four cd's which contained music that i was very familiar with (played a couple tunes off of each cd, listening carefully to certain sections of certain songs (which could have been bass-light, or bass heavy or sibilant-sounding or a bit distorted or whatever.  i used these cd's as "test" records).
  
 i remember taking my grado rs1-i headphones (admittedly "colored" / "warm" on bottom, and an overall "bright" headphone in the upper registers).  if i were to do this again, i would've taken my 701's (a much more "neutral" h/p, but my thinking at the time was:  "if this amp can't reproduce the bass and upper-midrange through these grados, then i know it won't through the 701's."
  
 were there differences between these amps?  to quote sarah palin:  "you betcha!"
  
 most people would probably be surprised to hear how different just these three amps sounded from each other (with everything else in the listening chain being equal, even down to the interconnects, and even the song order that i listened to the cd's every time out).
  
 the first guy at the shop where i listened to the anthem (very nice piece of gear, by the way and seemed to be very well-made.  a quality piece).  but, he said after i had told him that "this amp just sounds a bit too polite.  way too polite for my taste.  detail, yes.  absolutely.  but, not much impact at all.  "distant" sounding (on a "foreward-sounding" headphone!).  very, very refined-sounding.  but just a bit too refined-sounding".  he said:  "you know, this amp will sound much better through a quality set of loudspeakers."
  
 well, i do most of my listening through headphones, plus anthem made a point in their advertising to point out the "separate headphone amp circuit" engineered into this amp. i'm not technically-minded, and certainly not an audio engineer, so i wouldn't understand exactly how they implemented the h/p out into this amp even if they explained it to me, probably.  but, what encouraged me was seeing as how they devoted space in their advertising to go into some detail about the headphone output, period. "ah! the h/p out is not just an afterthought in this amp.   the engineers were thinking about it from the beginning."  i was encouraged.  then, i listened, and found the output to be "anemic" sounding.
  
 if anthem had allowed more (current output?), and then maybe incorporated a "high-low" switch to go from a higher-to-lower setting...in other words, if this integrated would've had more slam and "weight" (along with the impressive level of detail that i heard), then this piece would've definitely been a winner.
  
 but... so it goes.  i think, personally that the lack of good quality h/p outs in a lot of modern, mass-market audio gear explains why we started to see specialized companies making amps specifically designed for headphones.
  
 and why we're seeing a return (among some of us) to older, vintage amps and receivers.  (it doesn't hurt that a lot of the older gear looks good, either.   but, she can't just be pretty, she's got to "put out", too).


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think that slam, impact, punch (your verb here) are defining terms for the vintage audio years.  My Pioneer sx-1250 has slam that rivals (and in some cases exceeds) that from my Rowland Model 1s.  Considering the Rowlands can push 240+ WPC (bridged) that is no small accomplishment.  Even my diminutive Sherwood S-7100A leaves nothing to be desired from the HP out.


----------



## PhoenixG

That's certainly a fact. One spec I don't really have to care much about for speakers is sensitivity. I just keep turning the knob and they keep getting louder until they (hopefully don't) pop.


----------



## moodyrn

I'm with you there. I recently picked up a vintage pair of electrostat hybrids(acoustat spectra 11). Those are known to be a bugger to drive at around 88db.  I replaced the woofers with some dayton rss315HF which are even harder to drive at 86db(after doing so serious butchering to the already complex crossover and bias unit). But these monsters are no sweat for my mac rig. But I will say that I can now finally see the meters dance like they should.


----------



## jgreen16

Latest addition, a Pioneer SA-8800. The faceplate if virtually mint, and the cabinet has some very minor nicks, and one small corner of the veneer missing on the lower left front. The fluoroscan meters look good, but the Power On light is not functioning though.
  
 No scratchiness in the controls at all, and the headphone jack sounds pretty darn good. I'm almost considering using it, and selling off the Asgard 2.


----------



## LugBug1

^^^^Gorgeous! Thats a cracking amp you've got yourself. And I'm not surprised that you are preferring it over your hp amp.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, that's a very fine amplifier ! Congrats. I want a 9800 someday


----------



## Silent One

But... where would you put it?


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> But... where would you put it?


 
  
  
 I think he still has space to spare. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for me, I need a new rack.


----------



## Skylab

Oh if I got a really nice one I would find somewhere for it


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I think he still has space to spare.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If I just have to have problems 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 let them be 1st world... _"I got too much gear"_ kinds of problems.


----------



## moodyrn

Beautiful amp! I loooove the looks of those both inside and out. As for the 9800, with what I currently have, there isn't much out there that I have a desire for. So the want list is very short. But on that list is the sa-9800. I had a line on one for 450.00 about a year ago which was at that time the current going rate, but I didn't jump on it fast enough. Since that time, the prices have almost doubled. Even beat up ones been going for 600-700.00 which is a bummer.


----------



## Skylab

Yup. There was a completely restored one with a new solid walnut cabinet on AK about a year ago and I am still mad at myself for not buying it. I keep hoping whoever bought it will decide to sell it...


----------



## harrinj

skylab said:


> Yup. There was a completely restored one with a new solid walnut cabinet on AK about a year ago and I am still mad at myself for not buying it. I keep hoping whoever bought it will decide to sell it...




I know exactly how you feel. I kick myself for not contacting sooner about a mint condition Marantz 4270 with wood case for $300. I hope they're happy whoever waltzed in and got it. Ha :/


----------



## LugBug1

harrinj said:


> I know exactly how you feel. I kick myself for not contacting sooner about a mint condition Marantz 4270 with wood case for $300. I hope they're happy whoever waltzed in and got it. Ha :/


 
 Just tell yourself - there must have been something wrong with it for that price! (probs had the bulbs glued in ha)


----------



## dyang

harrinj said:


> I know exactly how you feel. I kick myself for not contacting sooner about a mint condition Marantz 4270 with wood case for $300. I hope they're happy whoever waltzed in and got it. Ha :/


 
 "Marantz 4270 for $300?" But hey brotha, there will always be deals out there, so don't kick yourself so hard.  I usually visit my local thrift store quite often and score big time at times.  I just picked up a super mint condition Pioneer sx-6000 for $25 yesterday at my local thrift store.  Can't believe how warm/crisp it sounds, it does great with my DT880 and my MD. Oh wait, all lights work too!
  
 There are some people out there that don't know what the heck these vintage stereo's are all about (my grandpa gave it to me) so you can easily buy 'em for almost nothing.  On the other hand there are some people out there that knows very little about them (THE INTERNET SAYS SO) and want all the money for them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  And there are the ones that buys and collects, deals vary with these dudes and sometimes I'll find some pretty good deals on CL.  Luck of the draw.


----------



## joehalo

Is $100 good price for a Marantz 2226B? Looks near mint and fully functional.


----------



## wotts

joehalo said:


> Is $100 good price for a Marantz 2226B? Looks near mint and fully functional.


 
  
 I'd say so. I see them go for triple that sometimes. I don't know much about that unit though. Perhaps someone else can chime in on it's character.


----------



## joehalo

I'm going to go take a look at it today. Hopefully it is as described. Says he is original owner and bought it when he was 17 in 1978! I've never heard a Marantz so I'm a bit excited!


----------



## wotts

joehalo said:


> I'm going to go take a look at it today. Hopefully it is as described. Says he is original owner and bought it when he was 17 in 1978! I've never heard a Marantz so I'm a bit excited!


 
  
  
 I love my 2265B!


----------



## LugBug1

Yup take his hands off! Actually forget the hands, just take the amp and run - thats a great price if it is mint.


----------



## dyang

joehalo said:


> Is $100 good price for a Marantz 2226B? Looks near mint and fully functional.


 
 GO GO GO….  Hurry before it's gone!
  
 Marantz 22xx series are warm sounding.  You won't be sorry if everything is functional.


----------



## joehalo

Got it for $100! Here are a couple quick pics.


----------



## wotts

Very nice!


----------



## dyang

joehalo said:


> Got it for $100! Here are a couple quick pics.


 
 She's a beauty!


----------



## OldSkool

Way to go! Looks great!
  
 I know I love my 2226B.


----------



## jasonb

Looks sexy.


----------



## joehalo

Thanks! Hopefully I can sit down and take a good listen tonight and take some better pics. I wonder if it will be a good match with my HPM-60s...


----------



## wotts

The 2265B always sounded great with the 100s. I would be inclined to think the 60s would sound good.


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats! Looks like you got one hell of a bargain there bud. Be sure to give us some impressions.


----------



## jasonb

Yard sale and flea market weather should be upon us soon, so I'd expect to see a lot of postings of killer finds coming in the next couple months. I know I'm always on the lookout for vintage receivers and integrateds.


----------



## elrod-tom

This thread is STILL going strong?  Awesome.  Might be my favorite Head-Fi thread of all time.


----------



## dyang

joehalo said:


> Thanks! Hopefully I can sit down and take a good listen tonight and take some better pics. I wonder if it will be a good match with my HPM-60s...


 
  
 wotts is right on this one…  it'll drive the 100's so you wouldn't have a problem.  Music to your ears…  Again, congrats!


----------



## dyang

elrod-tom said:


> This thread is STILL going strong?  Awesome.  Might be my favorite Head-Fi thread of all time.


 
 +1


----------



## wotts

dyang said:


> wotts is right on this one…  it'll drive the 100's so you wouldn't have a problem.  Music to your ears…  Again, congrats!


 
  





  


elrod-tom said:


> This thread is STILL going strong?  Awesome.  Might be my favorite Head-Fi thread of all time.


 
  
 It's a very good thread. And it's nice to hear from you, Tom!


----------



## Oregonian

joehalo said:


> Got it for $100! Here are a couple quick pics.


 

 I love the all silver look, whether it be Pioneer, Realistic or Marantz.  Joehalo, you done good!


----------



## jgreen16

Yeah, that's a beauty of a Marantz. Nice score, and enjoy!


----------



## MIKELAP

Hey guys theres a Pioneer 1010 up for grabs looks decent didnt talk to the guy yet so dont the price  one light doesnt work says cabinet is good what the going rate on these thanks.


----------



## elrod-tom

wotts said:


> It's a very good thread. And it's nice to hear from you, Tom!


 
  
 Thanks....I'm trying to get back here more often.  I miss this place.  Having two teenaged kids with lots of activities will keep you VERY busy!


----------



## joehalo

That one looks very nice. I would say around $350.


----------



## dyang

mikelap said:


> Hey guys theres a Pioneer 1010 up for grabs looks decent didnt talk to the guy yet so dont the price  one light doesnt work says cabinet is good what the going rate on these thanks.


 
  
 That's a fairly decent piece of unit.  Price varies for many owners and buyers due to many reasons, such as being rare, supply in demand, desperate, and just plain OLD badass unit.  
  
 To my knowledge the Pioneer SX-1010 wasn't a very big hitter.  Don't get me wrong, not that it's any slouch, just wasn't the one people are WOW'ing for.  I haven't heard it to even judge it but for me I'd walk if it were $150+.  Why?  because there are some nice sx series out there that sometimes you can get at a steal.  I'd look for a a 1050, 1080 or 1250 if I were you, might have to spent a tad more money but well worth the money and time for waiting 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 But if you're REALLY serious, buy a 1980 buahahahaha  "evil laugh…." j/k... now that's the schiit...
  
 Just my 2 cent…  Don't take my word for it.  If you like the sound into your ears then thumbs up.  Happy listening!


----------



## moodyrn

Nice score on the marantz!! Congrats. As for the pioneer sx-1010, I would have to respectfully disagree with  dyang. For 150.00, I couldn't get there fast enough. How good is it? Well if you head over to audiokarma, many prefer it over the sx-1250 and sx-1280. I've owned the sx-1010 and sx-1280, and while I do prefer the 1280, it's close and they both sound similar. But the reason many over at AK prefer the 1010 is because it's a little bit more on the warm side and slightly more musical. That's a very, very good sounding receiver and it's a step above the 1050 and 1080 sonically imo.


----------



## Skylab

I had a restored SX-1010 for a while and I can tell you it's a great sounding receiver. The push buttons are a weak spot though and need constant cleaning.


----------



## MIKELAP

skylab said:


> I had a restored SX-1010 for a while and I can tell you it's a great sounding receiver. The push buttons are a weak spot though and need constant cleaning.


 
  
  


dyang said:


> That's a fairly decent piece of unit.  Price varies for many owners and buyers due to many reasons, such as being rare, supply in demand, desperate, and just plain OLD badass unit.
> 
> To my knowledge the Pioneer SX-1010 wasn't a very big hitter.  Don't get me wrong, not that it's any slouch, just wasn't the one people are WOW'ing for.  I haven't heard it to even judge it but for me I'd walk if it were $150+.  Why?  because there are some nice sx series out there that sometimes you can get at a steal.  I'd look for a a 1050, 1080 or 1250 if I were you, might have to spent a tad more money but well worth the money and time for waiting
> 
> ...


 
  
  


joehalo said:


> That one looks very nice. I would say around $350.


 
  
  


moodyrn said:


> Nice score on the marantz!! Congrats. As for the pioneer sx-1010, I would have to respectfully disagree with  dyang. For 150.00, I couldn't get there fast enough. How good is it? Well if you head over to audiokarma, many prefer it over the sx-1250 and sx-1280. I've owned the sx-1010 and sx-1280, and while I do prefer the 1280, it's close and they both sound similar. But the reason many over at AK prefer the 1010 is because it's a little bit more on the warm side and slightly more musical. That's a very, very good sounding receiver and it's a step above the 1050 and 1080 sonically imo.


 
 Thanks guys for your input will check it out .


----------



## dyang

Give it a demo if you can, just to be sure both channels work.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Good luck to ya buddy


----------



## claybum

Nothing else in my collection reminds me of the '70's than my SX 1010. Classic vintage sound and beautiful to boot


----------



## harrinj

joehalo said:


> Is $100 good price for a Marantz 2226B? Looks near mint and fully functional.


 
 I got mine for $150 so yeah!!! mine was mint too. I think the 2226B's style looks the best especially with LED's!


----------



## harrinj

lugbug1 said:


> Just tell yourself - there must have been something wrong with it for that price! (probs had the bulbs glued in ha)


 
 IDK sometimes you get lucky and people don't know what they have/just don't care. usually you get the ones that turn to stupid ebay for reference and think they can get that much and nothing less. I've seen "sells for $XXXXX on the bay" it's really annoying, if they want that much then put the things on ebay. these are only worth as much as somebody is willing to pay for them.

 There was a Marantz 2325 at a place in Portland, OR for $999 and unfortunately it sold I heard for $925. I was hoping it would not but it did so that just enables them to keep the prices high or even higher.


----------



## MIKELAP

jasonb said:


> Yard sale and flea market weather should be upon us soon, so I'd expect to see a lot of postings of killer finds coming in the next couple months. I know I'm always on the lookout for vintage receivers and integrateds.


 
 Thats where i found my SX 750 the flea market still sounds great.


----------



## ssrock64

mikelap said:


> Thats where i found my SX 750 the flea market still sounds great.


 
 There's a flea market about an hour from me with a vendor that specializes in vintage receivers. I haven't made it out that way yet, but I see his Craigslist postings all the time and might have to check it out.


----------



## MIKELAP

ssrock64 said:


> There's a flea market about an hour from me with a vendor that specializes in vintage receivers. I haven't made it out that way yet, but I see his Craigslist postings all the time and might have to check it out.


 
 It could be worth it my guy also specialize in vintage gear thats how i got the amp and it even came with a 3 month warranty all for $100.00 .The only problem now is to find a vintage rack to put the growing inventory of amps in lol.


----------



## joehalo

Finally got a chance to sit down and really listen to the Marantz 2226b. Wow! It is just so buttery, warm and smooth. I'm really digging the sound! It drives my HPM-60s and 100s great! Really hard to believe its only 26wpc... I can't say I like it better than my sx-950 but its close!


----------



## moodyrn

Nice setup!


----------



## terry parr

for me, this piece would probably throw off just enough light in my listening room so that i could cut out the overhead lights and still see my bottle of pale ale or cup of coffee without having to worry about knocking them over.
  
 none of my audio equipment now throws off enough light to serve as a  "safety light" in the room,  but i usually like the room as dark as possible (without it being totally pitch-dark) when i'm listening.  just seems to add to the enjoyment most times.
  
 enjoy the marantz piece!


----------



## Silent One

I love listening to music in low light, you speaketh my language. Some nights, only candles will do...


----------



## jgreen16

And I prefer the "original" Marantz lights over the newer LED upgrade lighting. The blue color that they originally came with is perfect in my opinion. So much so, that it may have contributed to the sound quality.


----------



## dyang

jgreen16 said:


> And I prefer the "original" Marantz lights over the newer LED upgrade lighting. The blue color that they originally came with is perfect in my opinion. So much so, that it may have contributed to the sound quality.


 
 +1


----------



## OldSkool

jgreen16 said:


> And I prefer the "original" Marantz lights over the newer LED upgrade lighting. The blue color that they originally came with is perfect in my opinion. So much so, that it may have contributed to the sound quality.


 

 I have 2 Marantz receivers, one with original lights and the other has LEDs.
  
 I agree with you. The original, softer blue lights just look right, IMO.


----------



## Mach-X

jgreen16 said:


> And I prefer the "original" Marantz lights over the newer LED upgrade lighting. The blue color that they originally came with is perfect in my opinion. So much so, that it may have contributed to the sound quality.



Lol this might be the first admission of the existence of expectation bias ever on headfi!


----------



## Androb

silent one said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
 Wow... beautiful!  I have to get some of these nice vintage amps myself one day..


----------



## moodyrn

Just want to make quick post of some vintage electrostatic speakers I've been playing with the past few weeks. They are acoustat spectra 11 esl hybrids, featuring a four foot tall esl panel on top of a bass unit with an 8 inch driver. Everything I've read about them points to the esl panel being gold and the bass unit being horrible. I will say I think both are under statements.

The sound coming from the esl panel is as good as "any" electrostatic I've listened to. But the bass is just atrocious. I mean probably the worse bass I've listen too which is why probably 99% of all owners replace the driver with something else. This gave me an opportunity to play around(a lot) with winisd, and over the last couple of weeks I've gone through 5 sets of drivers. But I will say with all of the ones I've tried, modeling with winisd has been spot on with the response I've gotten from each one of them. 

One of the large obstacles is the enclosure for the 8in drive was way too large at 1.639cu. In this day and time that air space is too large for many 12 in drivers. But I did end up going with a 12in that is very renown for accuracy and sound quality. I've also rebuilt the bias and power supply with some caps on the way for the crossover along with making some small adjustment to the low pass crossover so that the 12s integrate perfectly with the esl panels.

These things are now sounding like one of the best speakers I've listened to at any price. I have them four feet off the rear wall and the sound is literally coming from the back wall 4ft behind the speakers and everywhere else in the room. They are just a beautiful sounding match with my macs..... Not bad for a 25 year old esl. Much more to follow in the vintage speaker thread.




Here's a before and after of the bias and power supply rebuild






and a pic of the back of the board with all of the flux removed. For some reason this is something the manufacturer neglected to do. And this board was caked full of it.





Oh and the speaker as a whole stands at just over six feet.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Just want to make quick post of some vintage electrostatic speakers I've been playing with the past few weeks. They are acoustat spectra 11 esl hybrids, featuring a four foot tall esl panel on top of a bass unit with an 8 inch driver. Everything I've read about them points to the esl panel being gold and the bass unit being horrible. I will say I think both are under statements.
> 
> The sound coming from the esl panel is as good as "any" electrostatic I've listened to. But the bass is just atrocious. I mean probably the worse bass I've listen too which is why probably 99% of all owners replace the driver with something else. This gave me an opportunity to play around(a lot) with winisd, and over the last couple of weeks I've gone through 5 sets of drivers. But I will say with all of the ones I've tried, modeling with winisd has been spot on with the response I've gotten from each one of them.
> 
> ...


 
 Great. ESL is absolutely the way to go. 
  
 Beveridge. The "upside down" ESL, if you will. The lowest distortion speaker on the planet - by order(s) of magnitude ...
  
 Then several light years - nothing.
  
 Then also refurbished/modified properly driven Acoustats can step into the picture. Of the "below Beveridge class", probably the most affordable these days.
  
 Congrats on the good job. Enjoy them !
  
 ( but I would anticipate ANY manufacturer of high voltage electronics to clean the flux residue and not leave that to the user ...)


----------



## moodyrn

I've always loved esl and thought they were the cleanest, purest sounding most accurate speaker types. It's nice not to have to listen to the box if you know what I mean. You never realize how colored any conventional speaker is until you listen to an esl right beside it. With that said, I'm about to fire up the moody mobile to head to Huntsville to pick up a pair so of speakers many say should be on every audiophile's bucket list to own at least once. But on the bad side, only one of them is working. But I think it will definitely be worth it to get it repaired.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Another issue that can contribute to bad bass is using too high of a wire gauge in any inductor in series with the woofer (i.e. as part of the xover).  In speakers I have built I have taken to using 14awg mag wire to wind my coils (air core to avoid hysteresis).  Otherwise the added resistance will trash your damping factor (transient response out the door).


----------



## musicman59

moodyrn said:


> I've always loved esl and thought they were the cleanest, purest sounding most accurate speaker types. It's nice not to have to listen to the box if you know what I mean. You never realize how colored any conventional speaker is until you listen to an esl right beside it. With that said, I'm about to fire up the moody mobile to head to Huntsville to pick up a pair so of speakers many say should be on every audiophile's bucket list to own at least once. But on the bad side, only one of them is working. But I think it will definitely be worth it to get it repaired.


 
 You are killing me.. what are those????


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> I've always loved esl and thought they were the cleanest, purest sounding most accurate speaker types. It's nice not to have to listen to the box if you know what I mean. You never realize how colored any conventional speaker is until you listen to an esl right beside it. With that said, I'm about to fire up the moody mobile to head to Huntsville to pick up a pair so of speakers many say should be on every audiophile's bucket list to own at least once. But on the bad side, only one of them is working. But I think it will definitely be worth it to get it repaired.


 
 MANY times i wish i did not audition the Beveridge  - in 1979. Ever since, no matter how good any other speaker might be, sooner than later the dreaded question pops up " HOW would this music sound on the Bev ?" ...
  
 With EU regulations, the good Bevs ( the ones with direct drive high voltage tube amps, NO transformer in the signal path ) got banned from importing into EU. So, even in case I scrape somehow together the ( anything but insignificant, see *http://www.bevaudio.com/* ) doe required, I STILL can not have them.
  
 Unless moving to non EU terrritory....


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> Another issue that can contribute to bad bass is using too high of a wire gauge in any inductor in series with the woofer (i.e. as part of the xover).  In speakers I have built I have taken to using 14awg mag wire to wind my coils (air core to avoid hysteresis).  Otherwise the added resistance will trash your damping factor (transient response out the door).




Very true. There was an EE guy who thought the same thing and built a zobel network to even out response the great success. That's the first thing I did, and it did help a great deal. The bass was a lot less boomy and integrated much better with the esl panel. But there's no fixing a cheap 3.00 woofer. The sound quality was still horrible. If I showed you a pic of it, you would know what I mean. The magnet is literally the size of a neo magnet, and the paper cone is as thin and flimsy as a brown paper bag. 




musicman59 said:


> You are killing me.. what are those????:rolleyes:




Lol, ok I'll let the cat out of the bag. It's a pair of first gen quad esl 57 from 1969. The owner is a guy 80 years old who bought them new when he was stationed in Germany in 1970. He still have all of the original paperwork.


----------



## moodyrn

analogsurviver said:


> MANY times i wish i did not audition the Beveridge  - in 1979. Ever since, no matter how good any other speaker might be, sooner than later the dreaded question pops up " HOW would this music sound on the Bev ?" ...
> 
> With EU regulations, the good Bevs ( the ones with direct drive high voltage tube amps, NO transformer in the signal path ) got banned from importing into EU. So, even in case I scrape somehow together the ( anything but insignificant, see *http://www.bevaudio.com/* ) doe required, I STILL can not have them.
> 
> Unless moving to non EU terrritory....




That's a speaker I would love to hear and unfortunately probably never will. At least you get a chance to taste them. Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I lived with ESL 57s for my entire Bachelors degree at RIT.  My roommate owned a pair.  The best mid-range ever!!!.  They were the heart of the HQD (Hartely/Quad/Decca) recommended my Mark Levinson (our dorm system only had the quads - no HQD for us poor college students ).  The Hartley woofers were 24" in diameter and many times mounted in the floor to use the basement as a box.


----------



## SpeakerBox

By the way - a Zobel network won't fix the high resistance in a xover coil (damping factor still the same or worse).  It will help flaten response though.


----------



## moodyrn

The coil resistance is 2.5 ohm. They also added an additional 4ohm resistor just after the coil. I removed it, and it made them even worse. Also, I talked to one of their engineers who still post on their forum who said the 2.5 resistance at the coil was by design to mate well with the woofer. But the 4 ohm resistor after the coil is now gone because it didn't play nice with the replacement woofers.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, it is possible that the resistance of the coil is used as part of the crossover (i.e. maybe the woofer had a 5.5 ohm resistance and they add the 2.5 ohms to give them 8 ohms).  I have seen that done before.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Lol, ok I'll let the cat out of the bag. It's a pair of first gen quad esl 57 from 1969. The owner is a guy 80 years old who bought them new when he was stationed in Germany in 1970. He still have all of the original paperwork.


 
 Congrats on your find and your effort! I see the moody mobile is gassed and waxed... _again._


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> MANY times i wish i did not audition the Beveridge  - in 1979. Ever since, no matter how good any other speaker might be, sooner than later the dreaded question pops up " HOW would this music sound on the Bev ?" ...
> 
> With EU regulations, the good Bevs ( the ones with direct drive high voltage tube amps, NO transformer in the signal path ) got banned from importing into EU. So, even in case I scrape somehow together the ( anything but insignificant, see *http://www.bevaudio.com/* ) doe required, I STILL can not have them.
> 
> Unless moving to non EU terrritory....


 





 I just discovered BevAudio is only some 125 miles north in Santa Barbara. I might have to push my luxo sedan up the coast and get thy understanding of stats!


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> That's a speaker I would love to hear and unfortunately probably never will. At least you get a chance to taste them. Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.


 
 If you can't be loved by the one you love - love the one you're with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 But - THAT ( in the case of Bev at least ) is pure machiavellian pragmatism...


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> I just discovered BevAudio is only some 125 miles north in Santa Barbara. I might have to push my luxo sedan up the coast and get thy understanding of stats!


 
 They are interesting guys. Main busseniss is - vineyards 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I knew they are your countrymen...( but please *DO *check out what these babies cost - in advance ).
  
 I would LOVE to read your impression of the whole experience - in native enviroment. Do not want to put any words in your mouth ...
  
 Mine was limited to perhaps 15 minutes - at the SIM ( Salone Internazionale della Musica) in Milan, Italy, in 1979. In those days, the audio fair still resembled all other fairs - large halls, divided into smaller "rooms" for each exhibitor - and of course, "acoustically coupled".
  
 I had to wait in the "que" for the exhibitors to have their time to demonstrate the sound. Just nearby was a Pioneer Bass Mega Horn ( usually pumping some disco at levels that made your balls dance...) - and a few tens of meters away an even larger counterpart from Technics. They shared the lion's share of the play time - all of the rest were limited to 15 minutes "peace & quiet" maximum. But - those were the most memorable audio 15 minutes in my life !
  
 Separate rooms in hotels came a couple of years later...- "static" exhibitions still being held in halls, the ONLY (besides brochures and nice looking hostesses) reason to visit them was to get the free ticket for the entry to the hotel rooms with real demos.


----------



## moodyrn

I just picked them up, condition is mint. I really didn't know what to expect given their age and crappy pic on cl. But these things darn near look new.


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> Oh and the speaker as a whole stands at just over six feet.


 
 Congrats on the new Monoliths! 
  
 Seriously, they look the business.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> I just picked them up, condition is mint. I really didn't know what to expect given their age and crappy pic on cl. But these things darn near look new.


 
 Please be GENTLE with them in the beginning - if there are any issues, to not compound it even further. No idea who is the repair/refurbish guy for Quad in the States - you'll have to figure it ou by yourself - but given the mint condition and first owner from 70s with all the original paperwork  suggest a fair chance for them to be also technically OK. 
  
 I sure wish you that to be the case.
  
 As always with stats - do not push to listen to them in extremely high humidity ( rainy days ).


----------



## Skylab

Wow, Moody, congrats on the Acoustats. I have heard Acoustats before and was super impressed. I also has a buddy who ran Quad 57's for years, with Quad II tube amps...those were also great sounding but for me a subwoofer was both mandatory and at the same time kind of hard to integrate well. But he did buy a Velodyne (on my recommendation) that did the trick well.

AnalogSurviver, I heard the big Beveridges once. Playing Steve Winwood's Arc of a Diver. I was in high school, it was early 80's. I've never forgotten how that sounded. It was incredible.


----------



## Silent One

Y'all really got me wanting to hears these big Beveridges. I'll make it a day trip - factory tour, good food and drink and perhaps meet with a fellow head-fier that lives in town.


----------



## Skylab

Apparently Beveridge still makes speakers...on a very limited basis ot seems. I have no idea how those compare to the ones from the late 70's/early 80's though.


----------



## Silent One

The factory has early models as well... should be fun!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks guys for the kind words and advice. I just got them in the house, so here are a few pics snapped with my phone. I hadn't put the legs on yet though.


----------



## moodyrn

Here's pics of the documentation material.


----------



## Skylab

Wow Moody those look like they are in pretty good shape. That's cool. If your listening chair/couch is very high, you will probably want some stands for them. There are lots of Quad stands that have been developed over the years, and lots of theories about which sound best


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, yes a lot of experimenting ahead.


----------



## MIKELAP

moodyrn said:


> Here's pics of the documentation material.


 
 i see on one book a picture of the Quad 33 preamp did you get that and the 405 amp also to go with Quad speakers i got this amp back in 1977 and it still working today Nice speakers look great remember seeing similar ones  from the time i bought the amp at the dealer but those commanded  big bucks .


----------



## moodyrn

I wish. It would have been nice, but it's just literature of the matching set to go along with the speakers. The previous owner said he was told the power supply needed repairing by a local shop years ago, but never got around to it. He has a lot of nice vintage gear. And asked me if I would be interested in a turntable. I told him I might, so then he show me an empire original 598 he bought many moons ago for 600.00 new. I told him yes. But then he said he wanted to goggle it to see how much he should sell it for. I told him when he's ready to give me a call. 
  
One of things that makes me feel a little better is he used a mac tube amp to power them(already sold 





). So it's a decent chance he didn't over drive them and damage the panels like many others have. I got a chance to plug them up a while ago, and just like he said one works fine and the other one don't. The working one doesn't show any sparks or have any whistling sounds which are sign of a bad panel. But it's still a little to soon to tell. I'm really hoping the repair guy he talked was right and none of the panels would have to be rebuilt. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
  
 Another plus is, I was able to get a good volume with my 25-30wpc fisher 500c at only around 9:30 on the volume knob. The  light on the non-working speaker does light up though.


----------



## dyang

Man…  I wish I can post up some pictures too…  "how many post do I need to be able to post???"
  
 errrrrr…...


----------



## Silent One

You've been able to for a long time now... _send us something. _


----------



## Oregonian

dyang said:


> Man…  I wish I can post up some pictures too…  "how many post do I need to be able to post???"
> 
> errrrrr…...




You're about 160 posts beyond..........bring it!


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> I wish. It would have been nice, but it's just literature of the matching set to go along with the speakers. The previous owner said he was told the power supply needed repairing by a local shop years ago, but never got around to it. He has a lot of nice vintage gear. And asked me if I would be interested in a turntable. I told him I might, so then he show me an empire original 598 he bought many moons ago for 600.00 new. I told him yes. But then he said he wanted to goggle it to see how much he should sell it for. I told him when he's ready to give me a call.
> 
> One of things that makes me feel a little better is he used a mac tube amp to power them(already sold
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you take the grills off you will be able to see if there have been any arcs in the panels.  We did that back in the dorm days and indeed one panel was arced. My roomy got a replacement panel and installed it himself.  Good as new!


----------



## DaemonSire

Hey...I have the chance for a Marantz 2245 with wood case for $275.  May be able to get it for $250.  One of the bulbs is burned out but otherwise functions well.  Is that a good deal at $275?
  
 Not as good a deal as the $100 one mentioned above though!


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 2245 is well regarded.  If the condition is good and the sound is good then I think $275 is a decent price.  Try for $250 though


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> If you take the grills off you will be able to see if there have been any arcs in the panels.  We did that back in the dorm days and indeed one panel was arced. My roomy got a replacement panel and installed it himself.  Good as new!





I already have the whole thing dismantled. The good news is there is no arcing of any of the panels. The bad news is the seller was right about the power supply. But not in the way one may think. About 90% of all power supply problems deals with the eht board, mainly diodes and sometimes the resistors. That's a pretty easy rebuild. But imagine my horror when I saw the input transformer fried. The heat from the damage melted a part of the dust cover which will involve removing one of the bass units to replace. That's not too hard, just time consuming. The larger issue is finding a replacement since this is something that rarely goes bad.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> I already have the whole thing dismantled. The good news is there is no arcing of any of the panels. The bad news is the seller was right about the power supply. But not in the way one may think. About 90% of all power supply problems deals with the eht board, mainly diodes and sometimes the resistors. That's a pretty easy rebuild. But imagine my horror when I saw the input transformer fried. The heat from the damage melted a part of the dust cover which will involve removing one of the bass units to replace. That's not too hard, just time consuming. The larger issue is finding a replacement since this is something that rarely goes bad.


 
  
 Hopefully something will turn up on that famed auction site.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks. I will probably get one ordered from Germany. Only cost around 100.00 which isn't too bad.


----------



## analogsurviver

skylab said:


> Apparently Beveridge still makes speakers...on a very limited basis ot seems. I have no idea how those compare to the ones from the late 70's/early 80's though.


 
 Bev is one of the very few examples that son is carrying the torch almost as well (or even better?) than the (late) father - in this case inventor of the speaker. 
  
 Basically, the son is taking adavantage of everything now made available, from materials to computing power, in order to make even better and/or more affordable product. That "affordable" is conditional, it is like "more affordable" Ferrari - even the cheapest one is way above the car budget for most people.


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Y'all really got me wanting to hears these big Beveridges. I'll make it a day trip - factory tour, good food and drink and perhaps meet with a fellow head-fier that lives in town.


 
 Please take your camera etc to document the event - with Bev approval, of course. Something like "Stax tour" thread here on head-fi. DO NOT FORGET to bring familiar recordings. As Bev is demoing "appointment only", you might be able to find out whether you can bring LPs as well. But I doubt they do not have a GREAT selection of music to try on their speakers...
  
 But IF you will be lucky enough to see and hear the replica of the truly *BIG* Beveridge One ( original built in one sole example which did not survive a fire...) - then I am not only green, but traffic light colour with envy - in advance...
  
 Anyways, ENJOY it while being there !
  
 There is one MONSTROUSLY BIG fly in this ointment. Bevs are so good that after hearing them in a properly set up enviroment no cans will do it anymore - making you to join Big Room - cans not allowed-fi.org  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Thanks. I will probably get one ordered from Germany. Only cost around 100.00 which isn't too bad.


 
 So - no QUAD support in the States? I assume you are referring to the Quad Atelier in Germany ?


----------



## moodyrn

I was referring to quad musik. There are a few repair shops here, but none that stock parts unfortunately.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> I was referring to quad musik. There are a few repair shops here, but none that stock parts unfortunately.


 
 I see. It is kind of rare for the transformer of the HV supply to fail - so no surprise it is not in stock around each corner...- specially for a speaker system that started its life in 1957 !
  
 I wish you to get it up and running ASAP.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, that was a bummer. But there are a few places abroad I'm waiting to hear back from. I had hoped to have it up and running by the week end, so now it looks like it may be a couple of weeks which is fine. I still got my acoustats and cornnies to keep me happy. My wife told me my cornnies might have to go. I'm trying to pull out all the stops to change her mind.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, that was a bummer. But there are a few places abroad I'm waiting to hear back from. I had hoped to have it up and running by the week end, so now it looks like it may be a couple of weeks which is fine. I still got my acoustats and cornnies to keep me happy. My wife told me my cornnies might have to go. I'm trying to pull out all the stops to change her mind.


 
 Good luck with pulling out all the stops 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !
  
 I assume cornnies to be Klipsh Cornwals - although i ADORE electrostatics, there are moment I would "kill" to be able to crank up the sytem above normal levels - just for the fun of being capable of doing it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah tell me about it. Sometimes when the wife is away I do have the tendency to make stuff fall off the walls for fun. 100 plus sensitivity combined with high power handling equals super duper loud.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, those times when the Mrs. steps out can be times of some glorious sound at my house.  She is not much for high SPLs.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Yeah tell me about it. Sometimes when the wife is away I do have the tendency to make stuff fall off the walls for fun. 100 plus sensitivity combined with high power handling equals super duper loud.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Yes, those times when the Mrs. steps out can be times of some glorious sound at my house.  She is not much for high SPLs.


 
 Women generally tend to dislike high SPLs - EXCEPT for a very special "species" competing in tournament held in Australia. It is about which woman can yell the loudest - calling her man for dinner. 
  
 Winners are in the 120 dB + category ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, that was a bummer. But there are a few places abroad I'm waiting to hear back from. I had hoped to have it up and running by the week end, so now it looks like it may be a couple of weeks which is fine. I still got my acoustats and cornnies to keep me happy. My wife told me my cornnies might have to go. I'm trying to pull out all the stops to change her mind.


 
 You'll have to admit, if not for her keeping your gears in check, you'd go _Smithsoinian_... stuff in every nook & cranny with placards for each.


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> Women generally tend to dislike high SPLs - EXCEPT for a very special "species" competing in tournament held in Australia. It is about which woman can yell the loudest - calling her man for dinner.
> 
> Winners are in the 120 dB + category ...
> 
> ...


 




 Then again, it sounds more like an indictment for men who try wandering off.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I guess it is a good form of "checks and balances".


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> Then again, it sounds more like an indictment for men who try wandering off.


 
 It is no coincidence this tournament is held in Australia - men working in vast outback have much better chances of hearing their better halves calling them for dinner if they are loud ENOUGH.
  
 But in less acoustically overwhelming spaces than outback it *might* be a bit too much - and can be understood as per your comment above 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## dyang

silent one said:


> You've been able to for a long time now... _send us something. _


 
  
 Who do I need to contact?  It says " I don't have permission to create attachments"


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> Who do I need to contact?  It says " I don't have permission to create attachments"


 





 Attachments?
  





 Navigate and upload directly from a folder or Copy & Paste.


----------



## OldSkool

From "insert attachments", move 7 icons to the left and click "insert image" instead.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Silent One

I sent that same advice along couple of hours ago. Tonight we're in for a treat.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Yeah tell me about it. Sometimes when the wife is away I do have the tendency to make stuff fall off the walls for fun. 100 plus sensitivity combined with high power handling equals super duper loud.


 

 I resemble that remark...............three weekends ago wife was out doing her thing with my daughters and her friends.  Me at home with my Golden Retriever, my Spec system and a pair of Cerwin Vegas.................................need I say more.


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## PhoenixG

YES! HAHA! About 1000 words more! Photos or it didn't happen!


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> I resemble that remark...............three weekends ago wife was out doing her thing with my daughters and her friends.  Me at home with my Golden Retriever, my Spec system and a pair of Cerwin Vegas.................................need I say more.


 




 But... what about Doggie's hearing?


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> h34r:
> But... what about Doggie's hearing?




She waits outside the room t the top of the stairs in he usual perch watching the world go by with me behind the door cranking some Rush. I don't subject my baby to that torture.  

Here she is enjoying some Paul Hardcastle...........


----------



## LugBug1

What do you call a dog that likes deep bass? 
  
 A sub-woofer. 
  
 (sorry)


----------



## Silent One

Still, I had to laugh. Not heard that one!


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> She waits outside the room t the top of the stairs in he usual perch watching the world go by with me behind the door cranking some Rush. I don't subject my baby to that torture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Na naa na nineteen, nineteen.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, one last update here about the quads. The German supplier did have some used ones on hand for 62.00 each and luckily it's an exact match of the one I have since there are different versions of it., but the shipping will be 40.00 lol. But that's still a very good price especially when it seems he's the only one in ther world that have any. I had couple of places here to tell me if anyone has any, it would be him. And one or two even said if you fine one, let me know. I also found someone up in Maine who said they could rebuild my old one for 180.00, so that's pretty much out of the question.
  
 I checked the eht board that was connected to that transformer, and except for a few diodes and a couple of caps a little out of spec, there's no damage. Accessing the eht boards is a little tricky. It involved baking them in the oven, and slowly bring heat up to 350 and baking them since they are incased in a very solid wax.  I also swapped the power supply from the working speaker for the non working one, and it works with no issues. And after an almost complete break down of both panels, there's no damage from arching. So it's really a mystery as to what went wrong. The only thing I can think of is he plugged the socket in wrong and fried it. Other than that I just don't know.
  
 On another sad note, the transformer melt down melted a hole in the  bass panel dust cover behind it. Thanfully, that's as far as it went. Also one of the bass panels from the other speaker has a long slit tear on the rear dust cover. So I have to replace both of those which will involve removing two bass panels. But all of the front dust covers are fine. The trickly part is since I don't have a tensioner, my only option is to tension the dust cover with a heat gun. So I made sure to order enough 3M film for a few re-do's. But that's it for this thread. Future updates with pics of the breakdown with be posted in the vintage speaker thread. As of now, the order for the transformer is placed, and I'm almost finished putting together an order to rebuild the power supply boards and crossovers. I might as well go all the way since they have been taken apart.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Congrats - Moody.  That is going to be one nice setup when you are done with the work.  Maybe you can go for the HQD system someday!


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks. That would be nice. Very doubtful, but would be nice.


----------



## LugBug1

Good luck with the rest of the job Moody. You always make it an interesting journey! Also, I'm sure everyone here will appreciate a pic or two when they are done (with your amps in the background


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well - so far I have recapped, replaced the relay, and cleaned the pins on the protection board. Also recapped the filter amp (just 1 cap), control amp, the flat amp, and did some cleaning.  Used film caps where ever I could to improve the sound.  This especially helped with the control amp where all the EQ is done - many caps there.  Immense improvement in sound when using the tone controls now.  Also eliminating all tantalum caps as I go - they tend to sound harsh - and tend to fail.
  
 Still to go: stabilizer board, L/R output boards, tuner board, phono board, power supply board.  Going to have to order some parts as my inventory is drying up.
  
 Very happy with how it sounds so far:


----------



## moodyrn

lugbug1 said:


> Good luck with the rest of the job Moody. You always make it an interesting journey! Also, I'm sure everyone here will appreciate a pic or two when they are done (with your amps in the background




Thanks.



speakerbox said:


> Well - so far I have recapped, replaced the relay, and cleaned the pins on the protection board. Also recapped the filter amp (just 1 cap), control amp, the flat amp, and did some cleaning.  Used film caps where ever I could to improve the sound.  This especially helped with the control amp where all the EQ is done - many caps there.  Immense improvement in sound when using the tone controls now.  Also eliminating all tantalum caps as I go - they tend to sound harsh - and tend to fail.
> 
> Still to go: stabilizer board, L/R output boards, tuner board, phono board, power supply board.  Going to have to order some parts as my inventory is drying up.
> 
> Very happy with how it sounds so far:




That's great progress. Looking forward to your impressions once it's completed.


----------



## joehalo

Question for you guys. This guy wants to trade me his pair of Jbl 4311b for my sx-950.... Fair trade or not? Here is the pic he sent me.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 950 is a nice unit - I would not do it.


----------



## randerson07

If your doing it purely on Cost, unless your 950 is fully restored and perfect, the auction site shows the JBLs worth just a tad more money.
  
 What do you have more of a need for? speakers or a receiver?


----------



## joehalo

I don't really have the room or need for the jbl 4311b. Guess I'll be keeping my 950 since its the best sounding receiver I have right now.


----------



## henree

Was wondering if it is bad to use a headphone amp  (Matrix) as a preout to a Marantz 2220 receiver? I thought the bass was a little too much. So I experimented with this chain. And suprisingly it tightened the bass and increased the soundstage. But I still get that Marantz richness and warmth. I use Denon d7000 headphones low impedance. I just don't want to damage my hearing using two amps together.


----------



## PhoenixG

henree said:


> Was wondering if it is bad to use a headphone amp  (Matrix) as a preout to a Marantz 2220 receiver? I thought the bass was a little too much. So I experimented with this chain. And suprisingly it tightened the bass and increased the soundstage. But I still get that Marantz richness and warmth. I use Denon d7000 headphones low impedance. I just don't want to damage my hearing using two amps together.


 
 Just be careful. See if the expected input is 2.5v max vs 1.5/1v max. If the headphone amp is putting out too much voltage, you could burn out your power amp.


----------



## joehalo




----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice!


----------



## SpeakerBox

About an hour and a half from me:
  
 http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/4381992527.html
  
 Trying to resist....


----------



## jaytee61

speakerbox said:


> About an hour and a half from me:
> 
> http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/4381992527.html
> 
> Trying to resist....




Wow. What a collection. Wonder what he wants for it. Deal or top dollar? Hour and a half road trip...perfect!


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> About an hour and a half from me:
> 
> http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/4381992527.html
> 
> Trying to resist....


 

 Wish I lived in Utica....................or actually, glad I live 3000 miles away!  What a collection!


----------



## moodyrn

If I lived that close I would definitely fire up the Moody Mobile.


----------



## Silent One

If I lived that close, I'd enjoy dinner with my man and hear all the accompanying stories.


----------



## MIKELAP

Its really addictive i just bought a WA2 ,and a couple days later there was this gorgeous Quad 306 , i actually ask the guy for infos but fortunatly for me lol he never replied to my email  i guess it was sold ,intead i went crazy on tubes, man here  we go again !


----------



## Silent One

At least with your addiction, you've got tremendous support!


----------



## MIKELAP

And encouragement lol


----------



## terry parr

and enabling.
  
 because only we can understand.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Well - so far I have recapped, replaced the relay, and cleaned the pins on the protection board. Also recapped the filter amp (just 1 cap), control amp, the flat amp, and did some cleaning.  Used film caps where ever I could to improve the sound.  This especially helped with the control amp where all the EQ is done - many caps there.  Immense improvement in sound when using the tone controls now.  Also eliminating all tantalum caps as I go - they tend to sound harsh - and tend to fail.
> 
> Still to go: stabilizer board, L/R output boards, tuner board, phono board, power supply board.  Going to have to order some parts as my inventory is drying up.
> 
> Very happy with how it sounds so far:


 
 THE way to go ! Specially about those ghastly sounding and unreliable tantalum caps - THE FIRST thing to go *chez moi *are always tantalums ...
  
 If such/similar job is done thoroughly, the amp (receiver in this case) can be considered to go in one's heritage - film caps last more than a lifetime - and get better with age to boot !


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> THE way to go ! Specially about those ghastly sounding and unreliable tantalum caps - THE FIRST thing to go *chez moi *are always tantalums ...
> 
> If such/similar job is done thoroughly, the amp (receiver in this case) can be considered to go in one's heritage - film caps last more than a lifetime - and get better with age to boot !


 
  
 Yes, I can already hear the films starting to break in.   Smoothing out - it sounds fantastic and can only imagine what it will do when the other six boards are done.  Power supply, stabilizer, L&R output, phono, and tuner still to come.  Many of those have tants too.  Will put film wherever feasible to do so - even if it is a little crowded (you should see the control board - really crowded - but awesome sound).


----------



## SpeakerBox

jaytee61 said:


> Wow. What a collection. Wonder what he wants for it. Deal or top dollar? Hour and a half road trip...perfect!


 
  
 I am going to email him and get the scoop.  Who knows - maybe I will end up taking a look.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Yes, I can already hear the films starting to break in.   Smoothing out - it sounds fantastic and can only imagine what it will do when the other six boards are done.  Power supply, stabilizer, L&R output, phono, and tuner still to come.  Many of those have tants too.  Will put film wherever feasible to do so - even if it is a little crowded (you should see the control board - really crowded - but awesome sound).


 
 It will not reveal its true nature after the last board is done and the whole does not work for continuous operation of about three months ( just play FM radio trough some cans in a drawer when you want silence otherwise ).
  
 You should see the innards of my CD-R recorder - THAT is crowded. Off limits for photos - beleve it or not, I had to trim the screws that hold the box panels together to just the lenght required to hold them in place - NO space for additional 2 mm or so which protrude with original untrimmed screws ...


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> It will not reveal its true nature after the last board is done and the whole does not work for continuous operation of about three months ( just play FM radio trough some cans in a drawer when you want silence otherwise ).
> 
> You should see the innards of my CD-R recorder - THAT is crowded. Off limits for photos - beleve it or not, I had to trim the screws that hold the box panels together to just the lenght required to hold them in place - NO space for additional 2 mm or so which protrude with original untrimmed screws ...


 
 Familiar with the break-in process - but am seeing incremental improvements though.  This unit gives you the feeling that you could blow the windows out of the house if you wanted to -- a sense of limitless power!


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Familiar with the break-in process - but am seeing incremental improvements though.  This unit gives you the feeling that you could blow the windows out of the house if you wanted to -- a sense of limitless power!


 
 .....and add rafinement, subtle sound colour shading, precision in soundstage width, dept AND height ... - it is at low level that it will improve the most.
  
 - so, order the parts needed - what are you waitng for !!??


----------



## SpeakerBox

Some cash would help.  In the process of allocating funds.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Some cash would help.  In the process of allocating funds.


 
 My sympathies - same over here. In my head, I have unfunded projects for years to come ...


----------



## Silent One

We're in good company 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... each other's.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Ya - there sure is more than a few dollars tied up in audio among this threads users!


----------



## Sweden

I have a few of these monster receivers but the somewhat 'lowly' Yamaha CR-620 play extraordinarily well with the HD800.
 Super clear, precise and natural without a hint of harshness. Great tip for someone who don't want to pay an arm an a leg for a HD800 amp.
 I am using EQ and TB Isone as well however which really transform these headphones to make it the best headphone experience I had in a long a*s time.
 If you have the HD800 you need to try TB Isone.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Ya - there sure is more than a few dollars tied up in audio among this threads users!


 
 Sure.
  
 Just to clarify this capacitor business to those not ( yet ) familiar with this - going all the way means that donor amp/receiver/whatever is usually at least equaled if not exceeded by the new high quality parts in cost/price.
  
 NOT counting VERY extensive labour !


----------



## PhoenixG

It's been a long process to get this guy, the mighty Sony STR-6120, but I finally have it turned on and fully adjusted and it is really fantastic. Honestly, as with many vintage units, the hardest part was finding one. I got this one from a guy online that I wasn't completely sure was for real. Fortunately, he was. This thing supposedly "broke" long ago and has been sitting in a box ever since. Inside, it's the cleanest unit I've ever seen. No dust, nothing. Like looking at a floor model.
 After pulling it apart, it became clear that it had been dead shorted and the output power supply was toast, but a couple parts later, it was back up running. I put it out for a tuner adjustment, as it was clearly way off. The meters proved my ears right, it was something like 500% out of spec, i.e. about half a volt off in a couple places, and the tuner was even worse.
 For the moment, it's still hooked up to the sansui sp-5500x's, but it'll get a better set once it moves onto my dresser as my bedroom rig. Depending on how much floor space I can spare, I'll probably put some small McIntosh or Infinity speakers with it.
 Preliminary listening is making me think it will live up to its lofty reputation as the very best ES series Sony ever put out..


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> It's been a long process to get this guy, the mighty Sony STR-6120, but I finally have it turned on and fully adjusted and it is really fantastic. Honestly, as with many vintage units, the hardest part was finding one. I got this one from a guy online that I wasn't completely sure was for real. Fortunately, he was. This thing supposedly "broke" long ago and has been sitting in a box ever since. Inside, it's the cleanest unit I've ever seen. No dust, nothing. Like looking at a floor model.
> After pulling it apart, it became clear that it had been dead shorted and the output power supply was toast, but a couple parts later, it was back up running. I put it out for a tuner adjustment, as it was clearly way off. The meters proved my ears right, it was something like 500% out of spec, i.e. about half a volt off in a couple places, and the tuner was even worse.
> For the moment, it's still hooked up to the sansui sp-5500x's, but it'll get a better set once it moves onto my dresser as my bedroom rig. Depending on how much floor space I can spare, I'll probably put some small McIntosh or Infinity speakers with it.
> Preliminary listening is making me think it will live up to its lofty reputation as the very best ES series Sony ever put out..


 
 Congrats!  I love the old Sony's - the 6065 is on my short list of "if I find one I'll buy one" units.  Like the headphone out of it?


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Beautiful PhoenixG!


----------



## PhoenixG

Of course as soon as I post about it, it pops a fuse. Must be shy haha. 
 Oregonian, I can personally vouch for the 6065. That's the TOTL from a few years after this one in the same line.


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats on the Sony! It's probs still waking up after all these years, maybe a little con'fuse'd.


----------



## terry parr

interesting how SONY seems to have the know-how to put out superior-sounding gear but it seems that their company focus is on the mass-market, broadest-appeal-possible type of audio components.
  
 the last few posts reminded me of a conversation i had last summer while in a local hi-fi shop where somebody was talking about how SONY
 can make superior consumer electronics when they want to.  after he brought it up i mentioned that SONY had always seemed like the "wonder bread" brand to me.  (sold to the masses, and not much in the way of their product offerings that's very special or distinctive about it).
  
 that's when he mentioned the ES series, and also mentioned how SONY had made some excellent sounding headphones in the past, too.
  
 since the name brand name is so ubiquitous, it doesn't have much "cache", but people shouldn't be too quick to automatically write it off.
 (familiarity breeds contempt, right?)
  
 but, you never know.
  
 i have an old JVC amp that certainly won't win any style awards for looks, but this old "japanese victor" piece sounds pretty darned good to me.
  
 and most people would say:  "jvc?  eww."
  
 well, it all depends on what type of piece you're talking about, and when it was made.


----------



## PhoenixG

IT LIVES! Now maybe I can give the wife her table back...

 For those who like DIY, here's how it happened - 
 This unit is old. Like, really old. So old it says it wants 117 volts, but doesn't even expect to get all of them, so it's actually designed to run on more like 90. From there, it filters (yes, you heard right - it filters line current coming in) and reduces to about 67 volts. It then uses that to make a 24 volt circuit. The extra line voltage was really torching the power supply with the weak link being the rectifier. With my friend Foxx, we already recapped the power supply board and replaced the rectifier once. The new caps have an even higher initial current draw than the old ones (since they have a higher capacitance and lower internal resistance). This seems to be horrifically stressful on the rectifier. When the rectifier fails, a board mounted fuse on the line voltage side instantly blows in a spectacular manner when the unit is turned on. It took about 3 hours of total use to blow up the new rectifier (which, by the way, always seemed a little small compared to the original one...). The new one blew after I turned it off for a few minutes then back on.
  
 This problem got the engineer in me going. I mean, really, that's frikkin annoying and I don't want to deal with this problem again. Also, the fuse is soldered in, so it's a pain to replace. Anyways, first order of business was to board mount a fuse holder. Mission accomplished. New fuse - instantly blows in a flash of purple light ("slow blowing" BTW). Dang, so that ruled out a bad fuse. Second order was to pull the rectifier and confirm our suspicions. It was toast, one of the diodes had fused short. Third order was to mod the rectifier to make it bullet-proof. I wanted to get this done TODAY, but I was a little low on beefy diodes. Fortunately, Foxx had several of the same replacement rectifier diodes, so I decided to parallel them, effectively doubling the capacity of the power supply. It is working great so far. No issues, even with volume-on starts. Finally, we checked current draws to make sure that there weren't any other issued blowing things up. Checked good. It passed the stress tests too. I think this mod will solve the problem with this unit, hopefully without kicking a gremlin further down the circuit.


----------



## harrinj

phoenixg said:


> It's been a long process to get this guy, the mighty Sony STR-6120, but I finally have it turned on and fully adjusted and it is really fantastic. Honestly, as with many vintage units, the hardest part was finding one. I got this one from a guy online that I wasn't completely sure was for real. Fortunately, he was. This thing supposedly "broke" long ago and has been sitting in a box ever since. Inside, it's the cleanest unit I've ever seen. No dust, nothing. Like looking at a floor model.
> After pulling it apart, it became clear that it had been dead shorted and the output power supply was toast, but a couple parts later, it was back up running. I put it out for a tuner adjustment, as it was clearly way off. The meters proved my ears right, it was something like 500% out of spec, i.e. about half a volt off in a couple places, and the tuner was even worse.
> For the moment, it's still hooked up to the sansui sp-5500x's, but it'll get a better set once it moves onto my dresser as my bedroom rig. Depending on how much floor space I can spare, I'll probably put some small McIntosh or Infinity speakers with it.
> Preliminary listening is making me think it will live up to its lofty reputation as the very best ES series Sony ever put out..


 
 Nice! I saw one of theseat a venders mall once but it was all beat up and missing just about every knob. it was no there the next visit though...


----------



## Destroysall

Nothing new, but thought I could share an updated pic of my Marantz 2220B. : - )


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nothing more beautiful than a vintage Marantz.


----------



## Sweden

I have a thing for the Setton RS-660 and Pioneer QX9900.


----------



## harrinj

I switched to my H/K 670 receiver last night and it will be fine for 2 or 3 minutes and then the left channel will make static sounds and then go out, the right channel will also make static sounds sometimes but it will drop in volume maybe 75% after the left channel has gone out. Anyone know what could be going on? it worked fine last time I used it... It's not hot inside the amp and it's not the cables or my DAC.


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> I switched to my H/K 670 receiver last night and it will be fine for 2 or 3 minutes and then the left channel will make static sounds and then go out, the right channel will also make static sounds sometimes but it will drop in volume maybe 75% after the left channel has gone out. Anyone know what could be going on? it worked fine last time I used it... It's not hot inside the amp and it's not the cables or my DAC.


 
  
 A couple of possibilities I can think of:
  
 1.) A component has developed sensitivity to heat and breaks down after warming up (usually a transistor but not always).
 2.) You have a bad cap in the power supply somewhere that won't hold a charge for very long.
  
 Many times you can diagnose #1 by spraying cool air on the transistors one at a time to see if they recover.  For #2 look for leaking and/or bulging caps.
  
 Can be tough to find so patience is a virtue.


----------



## SteveTeo

I have a nice Nikko receiver and an old Akai receiver, with the fingertip slidebar for volume control.  With some kitchy speakers that my brother bought off a guy in a parking lot with a white van.  Yeah, but they have a subwoofer in each speaker, and pretty clean tweeters and mids. 
  
 But right now, I'm racking my brain to try and remember a Harman Kardon component that I saw and heard in a very nice stereo shop back in the 80's or late 70's. It's like a sound-processor for home stereo, that places sources of sound from a recording into different locations in the sound field.  It might be known as a stereo imager?  Just a small low silver-faced box with only a few buttons on the front.  To turn the effect on and off, and maybe a dial to adjust to the amount of effect.
  
 Thanks for the help.  It's driving me nuts not remembering.  I'd like to find one.


----------



## Argybargy

What's your





phoenixg said:


> IT LIVES! Now maybe I can give the wife her table back...
> 
> 
> For those who like DIY, here's how it happened -
> ...




That's one fine looking receiver.

What's your wall voltage? I've seen mine as high as 126V.

A couple CL 70 or 80 inrush current limiters will drop your mains voltage by about 4V.


----------



## dyang

Finally learned how to load my pictures, big thanks to (Silent One)!
  
 Well, here is my set up…  Non-headphones photos so apologies.


----------



## wotts

That's amazing!


----------



## dyang

I also have a Pioneer SX-6000 that's in the shop for re-capping, which combo's best with my DT880 600ohms.  Photos coming soon.


----------



## harrinj

speakerbox said:


> A couple of possibilities I can think of:
> 
> 1.) A component has developed sensitivity to heat and breaks down after warming up (usually a transistor but not always).
> 2.) You have a bad cap in the power supply somewhere that won't hold a charge for very long.
> ...




I got it on the floor now and my phone plugged into it and been listening to PF Echoes and its not dropped for almost 20 minutes now. Maybe with the Gungnir on top, it does not vent well and one of the componants gets too hot but it was not hot inside and would drop only after a couple minutes. Weird...


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> Finally learned how to load my pictures, big thanks to (Silent One)!
> 
> Well, here is my set up…  Non-headphones photos so apologies.


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> IT LIVES! Now maybe I can give the wife her table back...


 
 Nice work as usual buddy. Phoenix and Foxx save the day!  
  
  


dyang said:


> Finally learned how to load my pictures, big thanks to (Silent One)!


 
 Great set up! love to hear what that wall of pioneers sounds like!


----------



## dyang

Great set up! love to hear what that wall of pioneers sounds like!  
[/quote]

I had a buddy come over for a listen and he has heard big dollar modern home audio, he stated "that's a $30000 sound system"

I wouldn't know about high dollar modern home audio but I do know that my sound system does rock the house and sounds incredible. Very happy with it, wouldn't trade it for anything.

If you're ever in the central cali area, shoot me a pm. You're more than welcome to come for a listen.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Great set up! love to hear what that wall of pioneers sounds like!


 
 For a second it looked like an old stereo magazine advert 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... how great is that?!


----------



## dyang

silent one said:


> For a second it looked like an old stereo magazine advert  ... how great is that?!




You're Awesome!

Taken with a Canon 5d Mark ii/sigma 50mm 1.4 prime.


----------



## harrinj

harrinj said:


> I got it on the floor now and my phone plugged into it and been listening to PF Echoes and its not dropped for almost 20 minutes now. Maybe with the Gungnir on top, it does not vent well and one of the componants gets too hot but it was not hot inside and would drop only after a couple minutes. Weird...


 
 Finally did go out once it got warm in there


----------



## LugBug1

dyang said:


> Great set up! love to hear what that wall of pioneers sounds like!


 
 I had a buddy come over for a listen and he has heard big dollar modern home audio, he stated "that's a $30000 sound system"

 I wouldn't know about high dollar modern home audio but I do know that my sound system does rock the house and sounds incredible. Very happy with it, wouldn't trade it for anything.

 If you're ever in the central cali area, shoot me a pm. You're more than welcome to come for a listen.[/quote]

 Cheers buddy 
 Its all about the music and how it makes you feel. I've not heard any modern system that effects me in the same way as the organic, musical tone of a good vintage system. It's called the 'golden age' for a very good reason!


----------



## wotts

lugbug1 said:


> Cheers buddy
> Its all about the music and how it makes you feel. I've not heard any modern system that effects me in the same way as the organic, musical tone of a good vintage system. It's called the *'golden age' *for a very good reason!


 
  
  
 I get home from work and fire up the SX-1980 -> XR 1051 everyday and not the TV. There is just something that makes it irresistable.


----------



## LugBug1

wotts said:


> I get home from work and fire up the SX-1980 -> XR 1051 everyday and not the TV. There is just something that makes it irresistable.


 





 same here with my vintage.


----------



## wotts

lugbug1 said:


> same here with my vintage.


 
  
  
 The funniest part about that is I just picked up a Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 and it is almost never on.


----------



## LugBug1

Thats one nice tv bro! Oh well, maybe put the landscape channel on whilst listening to your gear?


----------



## wotts

lugbug1 said:


> Thats one nice tv bro! Oh well, maybe put the landscape channel on whilst listening to your gear?


 
  
 Well, I have had BBC Planet Earth running with some tunes from the SX-1980 going, but I think they are a bit far apart. I should setup the the 2265B in the living room with the S-1010s and just just let the video play. Hmmm....


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Finally did go out once it got warm in there




Sounds like a visit to Doug is in order. Just saw him yesterday, picking up a sub for my computer room TV system. 

He has ANOTHER of those high power Marantz receivers for $950!


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Sounds like a visit to Doug is in order. Just saw him yesterday, picking up a sub for my computer room TV system.
> 
> He has ANOTHER of those high power Marantz receivers for $950!


 
  
 It also may depend on the amount of power you are pushing at any time (headphones will certainly be less) - less power and it will probably play longer.


----------



## dyang

wotts said:


> I get home from work and fire up the SX-1980 -> XR 1051 everyday and not the TV. There is just something that makes it irresistable.


 
 That's my daily routine as well…


----------



## jgreen16

dyang said:


> That's my daily routine as well…


 
 With the gorgeous setup you have, I think it would be hard to do anything but that.


----------



## SpeakerBox

dyang said:


> That's my daily routine as well…


 
  
 +1 on that.  Almost never turn the tv on anymore.


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> +1 on that.  Almost never turn the tv on anymore.




I turn it on to watch sports but usually mute the TV and listen to the Spec system. Sports announcers are so annoying.


----------



## LugBug1

No tv for me.... Distracts from the Jazz.. 
  
 (unless its babestation) 
  
              (when the Mrs has gone to bed)
  
                        (I find it goes really well with Jazz)
  
                                  (Sorry for lowering the tone..)


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> wotts said:
> 
> 
> > I get home from work and fire up the SX-1980 -> XR 1051 everyday and not the TV. There is just something that makes it irresistable.
> ...


 





 la bonne vie...


----------



## Silent One

Looking back a dozen moons and maybe a half dozen more, it seems the better the audio gears and presentation, the less I wanna get absorbed by TV programming. Save Sports programming and the select Drama here and there.


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> Looking back a dozen moons and maybe a half dozen more, it seems the better the audio gears and presentation, the less I wanna get absorbed by TV programming. Save Sports programming and the select Drama here and there.


 
 Yup, I get to watch the live football (soccer!) and I'm happy with that. But I'm just not interested the rest of the time. I'm addicted to the news, but I get all that online of course.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *LugBug1* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Yup, I get to watch the live football (soccer!) and I'm happy with that. But I'm just not interested the rest of the time. I'm addicted to the news, but I get all that online of course.


 
 All this talk about receivers and suddenly I wanna hear one of mine tonight. But they're all in storage - simply no space inside the listening room. I'm tempted to drag out the big "G" and listen tonight, only to return it Sun/Mon. Kinda like renting!


----------



## LugBug1

^^^ go on.. Get her out! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's the only one that can hit the spot... G spot! (sorry again)


----------



## Silent One

Is this about the triumphant return of vintage audio or steamy Hollywood novel?


----------



## LugBug1

Hmmm.. Everyone has a book in them. Or so they say! You got me thinking now.. 
  
_"How can I sway him from his beloved Technics... Julia thought..."_


----------



## Silent One

I really am just minutes from Hollywood, though...


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> I really am just minutes from Hollywood, though...


 
 My first contact!


----------



## dyang

lugbug1 said:


> ^^^ go on.. Get her out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What's it doing in storage?  I almost want to cry when I heard that…


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> What's it doing in storage?  I almost want to cry when I heard that…


 
 Um... perhaps, lack of space? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hmmm, maybe Sunday for 48 hrs.


----------



## dyang

silent one said:


> Um... perhaps, lack of space?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 um… I have lot's of space here…  sooo….. you know….


----------



## dyang

Finally got it back!  Yay…  Take a look


----------



## PhoenixG

argybargy said:


> What's your
> That's one fine looking receiver.
> 
> What's your wall voltage? I've seen mine as high as 126V.
> ...


 
 My wall voltage ranges from about 122 in the winter to 109 in the summer (Florida, lol). The modified power supply can now handle the start up current, and the shunt circuit just runs a few volts warmer in the winter. All is good.


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> um… I have lot's of space here…  sooo….. you know….


 
 It sits on a dolly to boot... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 let's keep it rolling, folks!
  
  


dyang said:


> Finally got it back…  yay!  Take a look.


 
_Clean._


----------



## dyang

Silent One,
  
 Lets see your stuff.


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> Silent One,
> 
> Lets see your stuff.


 
 What... you wanna see the dolly or the amp sitting on the dolly? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm almost certain the regulars will want to run me outta here re-posting that pix yet again
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but here goes! I think I need to find it first.


----------



## dyang

silent one said:


> What... you wanna see the dolly or the amp sitting on the dolly?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's just something else, outta this world beautiful!  You weren't kidding about the dolly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I too would like to find myself a big G as well.


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *dyang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> That's just something else, outta this world beautiful!  *You weren't kidding about the dolly*
> ...


 
 Thanks kindly. This thread is too good for me to come along and start making stuff up. I'd rather be _silent_ than to stretch the truth!


----------



## dyang

silent one said:


> Thanks kindly. This thread is too good for me to come along and start making stuff up. I'd rather be _silent_ than to stretch the truth!


 
 Typing doesn't require you to talk so you'll be alright.


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> ^^^ go on.. Get her out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Silent One

dyang said:


> Typing doesn't require you to talk so you'll be alright.


 
 Well, some of us have "Talk & Type" software, so...


----------



## dyang

silent one said:


> Well, some of us have "Talk & Type" software, so…


 
 Talk and what?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 OMG…  too spoiled. 
  
 Would you just hook up that big G and put it to work already.  BTW, what cans of yours pairs up well on that big G?


----------



## ssrock64

dyang said:


> Finally got it back!  Yay…  Take a look


 
 Wow, that's really well-executed.


----------



## dyang

ssrock64 said:


> Wow, that's really well-executed.




Thank you


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *dyang* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Talk and what?
> ...


 
 HiFiMAN HE-6 re-cabled with Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 Headphone Cable (4x19awg) Balanced 4-pin XLR


----------



## jring

Gentlemen,
  
 let me introduce my latest acquisition - a german SABA Stereo 1 valve receiver from 1965 or so including the original broadband speakers with greencone chassis... got it tonight, plugged it in, tuned to my favourite station and wow, who would have thought that those little single chassis speakers could sound so good...
  
 No headphone out though but I'll do a converter with some inline resistors for dynamic phones and of course it's gonna be perfect for the STAXen...
  

  
 Joachim


----------



## analogsurviver

jring said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> let me introduce my latest acquisition - a german SABA Stereo 1 valve receiver from 1965 or so including the original broadband speakers with greencone chassis... got it tonight, plugged it in, tuned to my favourite station and wow, who would have thought that those little single chassis speakers could sound so good...
> 
> ...


 
_*Now*_ I finally get to know what gets canibalized for those divine sounding broadband Saba speakers - they are very popular in DIY loudspeaker community over here,  particularly open baffle designs ...


----------



## jring

analogsurviver said:


> _*Now*_ I finally get to know what gets canibalized for those divine sounding broadband Saba speakers - they are very popular in DIY loudspeaker community over here,  particularly open baffle designs ...


 
  
 Indeed, and every single one ripped apart is a sin if they sound like mine... and yes, the speakers are open at the back.
  
 Joachim


----------



## analogsurviver

jring said:


> Indeed, and every single one ripped apart is a sin if they sound like mine... and yes, the speakers are open at the back.
> 
> Joachim


 
 I do know Saba *Lampe *(coloquial for vacuum tube/valve over here ) receivers sound great - yet they pale in comparison to what same drivers are capable of doing in open baffle speaker systems. Usually driven by SET amplification - match made in heaven.
  
 But, I agree - it is a sin to rip apart anything this good and this old !


----------



## jring

analogsurviver said:


> I do know Saba *Lampe *(coloquial for vacuum tube/valve over here ) receivers sound great - yet they pale in comparison to what same drivers are capable of doing in open baffle speaker systems. Usually driven by SET amplification - match made in heaven.
> 
> But, I agree - it is a sin to rip apart anything this good and this old !


 
  
 Please enlighten me - what is SET amplification?
  
 Gute Nacht,
  
 Joachim


----------



## analogsurviver

jring said:


> Please enlighten me - what is SET amplification?
> 
> Gute Nacht,
> 
> Joachim


 
 SET = single ended triode
  
 Gleichfalls...


----------



## Skylab

I don't do it all that often but tonight I'm listening to the tuner on the Pioneer SX-1980, and every time I do I am reminded of just how good FM can sound with a half decent antenna and a good FM tuner. If only I had a rooftop antenna...but still, the sound from the 1980's tuner is very, very good.


----------



## harrinj

What exactly makes a Marantz 2275 $999? What's so special about it?


----------



## SpeakerBox

I don't think the 2275 is worth that much - but I am not much a fan of the vintage Marantz sound either.  There is a 2275 here near Rochester NY for $425 and I am not sure I want to pay even that (but am thinking about it).  But that is just me - some love the sound of these units.


----------



## Destroysall

speakerbox said:


> I don't think the 2275 is worth that much - but I am not much a fan of the vintage Marantz sound either.  There is a 2275 here near Rochester NY for $425 and I am not sure I want to pay even that (but am thinking about it).  But that is just me - some love the sound of these units.


 

 They are really warm sounding in comparison to the Pioneer and Kenwood vintage amps/receivers I've heard.


----------



## jring

analogsurviver said:


> SET = single ended triode
> 
> Gleichfalls...


 
  
 Ok, we can safely say that the original amp with ECLL800 is neither single ended nor triode... at least the design is quite conservatively rated at 3.5W so there's hope those valve ICs are going to have plenty of life left... a pair of new ones is way more than what I paid for the whole set.
  
 Can't wait what it sounds like with phones and/or external source but must wait for speaker plugs and a DIN adaptor...
  
 Joachim


----------



## harrinj

speakerbox said:


> I don't think the 2275 is worth that much - but I am not much a fan of the vintage Marantz sound either.  There is a 2275 here near Rochester NY for $425 and I am not sure I want to pay even that (but am thinking about it).  But that is just me - some love the sound of these units.




Personally that's about MAX I'd pay for a 2275 or a 2270. I don't get the $999 price tag. I've seen a 2270 for $850 and $950. Makes no sense to me. I'm waiting for garage sale season since NOTHING has been on craigslist and if it is its near or over $1,000 they want


----------



## wotts

My buddy picked up his 2285 for $600 about two months ago and I thought that was too high. It is in amazing condition though. I got my 2265B for $150, but I think I lucked out.


----------



## harrinj

wotts said:


> My buddy picked up his 2285 for $600 about two months ago and I thought that was too high. It is in amazing condition though. I got my 2265B for $150, but I think I lucked out.




Yeah I too think that's too high. Hell I paid $400 for my 4400 and he wanted $600. 

And yeah you do luck our when you get the people who are either realistic or just don't care. That's a nice one you got for $150. This place I'm talking about that had that 2275 for $999 would put an $850 or more on that 2265B I bet!


----------



## moodyrn

Well, I'm finally fished with the quads. Here are a few pics of the rebuilt crossovers, power supply, and dust panels.





I do plan to build clamp boards sometime later. As a temporary solution, there's a mod to the crossover by placing a gas bulb between pin 7 and 9 that will clip them at 1.5kv volts where the treble panel will arc at around 2.2kv.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well done!


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Well done!


 
 +1!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, I'm so glad the whole thing is finally over. It took right at two weeks for the whole project(a lot of that was waiting on parts to arrive). But this job was really a pickle. Just to give you one example....the eht board in the power supply! The board is in-cased in  bees wax, so that involved slowly bringing  the heat in to oven to 300 and baking it for around 20-30 minutes. It was a very fine line between all of the wax not melting and the board and housing itself melting. Then the diodes that were on it had very thin leads with very thin holes to mount them through. So I had to carefully drill out 16 holes per board(would have been 32 if they weren't laddered) while not damaging or lifting the solder pads.
  
 And it became more difficult from there with most of the soldered parts being a combination of  wire-wrap and solder. So just unsoldering a part took a lot of time, and patience. If one would become impatient and to to force a lead loose, solder would splatter with a good chance of it getting into the panels which would mean  replacement or a complete rebuild from scratch. So on the technical side, it wasn't too bad. It's just very time consuming.
  
 But it was all worth it!!. I know these quads have many fans, and  many claim these to be the best speaker ever made. Well...I completely disagree with that. No way could I ever make that claim about a speaker with two serious flaws. The first one is bass. These sound like there's a  low pass crossover at around 70hz. The bass is very defined and perfectly intergrated but there's both a serious roll off and and attenuation down low. The second flaw is the beamy treble panel. On axis, the imagine is pinpoint and precise. But off axis, it's like there's not much treble at all. Many try to compensate for this by adding ribbons, but fortunately for me, it's a non issue since there will only be one chair sitting dead center in my listing room. 
  
 But I will say, for the frequencies they do produce, they are just superb. The mids are if not the best, at least among the best I've listened to. I do wish they had the dynamics, depth, and sound stage width of my acoustats, but they are still very good in that department. Now the research and modeling begins on a good matching sub. I'm probably going to end up going diy with that project. But tonal wise, I will say I haven't heard none better.


----------



## LugBug1

Great impressions Moody. Tonality is very important to me so I'd probably like them. To be fair I'd probably love them! The depth will most probably improve when you get a sub.


----------



## moodyrn

That's the most important thing to me as well. The others aspects I consider a nice bonus, but I will take a speaker or headphone with great tonality over one that only excell when it comes to other aspects. That's one reason why I like the w3000anv over the hd800, but that's a discussion for another forum lol. But the quads and my 500c are a great match, and I'm very fortunate to already have an amp for them. These things are known as amp killers.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Thanks, I'm so glad the whole thing is finally over. It took right at two weeks for the whole project(a lot of that was waiting on parts to arrive). But this job was really a pickle. Just to give you one example....the eht board in the power supply! The board is in-cased in  bees wax, so that involved slowly bringing  the heat in to oven to 300 and baking it for around 20-30 minutes. It was a very fine line between all of the wax not melting and the board and housing itself melting. Then the diodes that were on it had very thin leads with very thin holes to mount them through. So I had to carefully drill out 16 holes per board(would have been 32 if they weren't laddered) while not damaging or lifting the solder pads.
> 
> And it became more difficult from there with most of the soldered parts being a combination of  wire-wrap and solder. So just unsoldering a part took a lot of time, and patience. If one would become impatient and to to force a lead loose, solder would splatter with a good chance of it getting into the panels which would mean  replacement or a complete rebuild from scratch. So on the technical side, it wasn't too bad. It's just very time consuming.
> 
> ...


 
 Quad ESL 57 is the only loudspeaker to challenge and actually match/beat the Beveridge in the midrange - and yes, it falls short in the areas you described so well. I would try to match it with NON BOX subwoofer - dipole of some sort.  Depending on size of your room ( and piggybank... ) that can range from some small DIY job up to Carver Amazing Loudspeaker - used as subwoofer only...
  
 Gradient of Norway *Finland* ( used to ? ) produce dipole SWs intended specifcally for the Quad 63 - doubling as a stand to elevate the ESL panels to eye height when listening seated. Unfortunately, never heard a Gradient assisted ESL 63 - but those who did have high praise for the combo.
  
 http://www.regonaudio.com/Gradient%20SW-63%20Subwoofer.html
  
 http://www.hellotrade.com/gradient-finland/subwoofer-sw-63-he-crossover.html
  
 There is a succesor to the original SW57 ( made to complement the ESL 57 - discontinued) :
  
 http://www.gradient.fi/Gradient/SW-S.html


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, that's great info. I'm very well aware of the amazings and they were on my short list before grabbing the quads just on my intrigue of the open air woofers. Ultimately that would be the way to go, but these are going in my small office, so that may be overkill unless I can find a small but elegant design. But I'm glad you reminded me of the concept and my first goal is to try to make that happen on a smaller scale.
  
 The fisher is really showing what it can do with the quads though. I really love this combo. I really can't wait until I get the sub thing solved like I did with the acoustats.


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Thanks, that's great info. I'm very well aware of the amazings and they were on my short list before grabbing the quads just on my intrigue of the open air woofers. Ultimately that would be the way to go, but these are going in my small office, so that may be overkill unless I can find a small but elegant design. But I'm glad you reminded me of the concept and my first goal is to try to make that happen on a smaller scale.
> 
> The fisher is really showing what it can do with the quads though. I really love this combo. I really can't wait until I get the sub thing solved like I did with the acoustats.


 
 No problem - I just wanted to remind anybody about the most important property of any loudspeaker - interface with the room.
 Some more DIM ( Drooling Inducing Material ):
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=391092
  
 For a small office, I would just dispense with the subwoofers...
  
 ESL 57 is not power hungry, in fact one has to be careful not to overvoltage it with too powerful an amp when reproducing high dynamic range material. But it definitely is showing what anything preceding it in the chain is doing - meaning your Fisher IS up to snuff !
  
 Enjoy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks!


----------



## PhoenixG

I figure here's the best place to put this out first-
 I recently bought a large stock of parts from a radioshack service department that shut down a few years ago. One of the boxes had about 450 vintage N.O.S. IC's. Many of the year dates are from the mid 70's to mid 80's. I know there are people out there that need unobtanium parts, so if you need something, send me a PM and I'll give you my inventory list.


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


> I figure here's the best place to put this out first-
> I recently bought a large stock of parts from a radioshack service department that shut down a few years ago. One of the boxes had about 450 vintage N.O.S. IC's. Many of the year dates are from the mid 70's to mid 80's. I know there are people out there that need unobtanium parts, so if you need something, send me a PM and I'll give you my inventory list.


 
 THAT is a very generous offer. No idea what RS could have been stocking in those days, I will shoot just the general question : anything from Matsu****a/Technics ?


----------



## PhoenixG

analogsurviver said:


> THAT is a very generous offer. No idea what RS could have been stocking in those days, I will shoot just the general question : anything from Matsu****a/Technics ?


 
 A very few. I have them sorted by part number and didn't catalog the manufacturer, but I remember seeing a few of their manufacturer codes.


----------



## Argybargy

If you happen to have any, STV-3H, 4H, etc bias diodes are hard to find NOS. They are easy to damage if you screw it in too tight or pull on the brittle leads while recapping/servicing.
A stash of these would be great to have.


----------



## Oregonian

I'm finally getting my Pioneer CTF-1000 cassette deck operating.  Bought it with the Spec rack system and tho the lights came on the wheels would never move. 
  
 My question for you guys - would you keep it to preserve the "silver face" legacy and keep the rack mount system "full" of Pioneer stuff or would you sell it after it's working properly for from what I see on eBay and from a prior conversation with Skylab for upwards of $1000 and invest that $$ in another killer system. 
  
 Have a 1280 and 1050 locally for sale for $800-900 so in effect I could trade the cassette deck for an amazing receiver. 
  
 I will likely never use the cassette deck so the value is keeping the rack looking "period correct".  I could see both points easily.  Have no intention of selling the system and in fact will pass it on to my daughters some time down the road (20+ years?). 
  
 I'm wondering what would YOU do?   Thanks for your input.


----------



## captouch

I personally wouldn't keep a $1000 piece for cosmetics/completeness only.  There's just a lot of other cool stuff you could get for that kind of $.
  
 If it's not already out of your rack, I'd take it out of your rack and see it and imagine it gone.  Would it bother you?  If not, I'd sell it.
  
 If you're not sure and don't need the $ (or whatever gear you could get with the $), then take your time, because it may not be easy to get again.


----------



## LugBug1

Thats a tough call Oregonian. But if you are a 100% sure that you won't be selling the rack I'd say go for it. Also, there aren't many full spec racks out there (not that I've seen) and it may be a case that the parts are worth more than the sum of the whole. As I can imagine a lot folks collecting these component by component. So even if you did end up selling the rest, you might not lose out monies wise. But that's hard to call.
  
 From a collectors point of view of course - it may seem absolute sacrilege! But IMHO life is too short and you could own something else that will no doubt give you a lot more pleasure. Like a 1280 for e.g.  
  
 The seed has been planted in your mind now... You'll start to begrudge it sitting in the rack before long haha


----------



## palmfish

Are you sure that it will sell? I can see the anal-retentive "must complete the set" collectors maybe, but I wouldnt count on it, and I doubt if anyone else is buying cassette decks.


----------



## LugBug1

palmfish said:


> Are you sure that it will sell? I can see the anal-retentive "must complete the set" collectors maybe, but I wouldnt count on it, and I doubt if anyone else is buying cassette decks.


 
 I thought we were all anally-retentive on here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I bought a Marantz cassette deck last year. I have not used it... Don't even own any cassettes anymore.  Twas an impulse buy, but it does look great! And it sits next to my pretty Marantz amps verry nicely. (it was only $10 though.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Oregonian

palmfish said:


> Are you sure that it will sell? I can see the anal-retentive "must complete the set" collectors maybe, but I wouldnt count on it, and I doubt if anyone else is buying cassette decks.


 

 Fair question.  I've been watching eBay for a while and they do sell......................


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> Thats a tough call Oregonian. But if you are a 100% sure that you won't be selling the rack I'd say go for it. Also, there aren't many full spec racks out there (not that I've seen) and it may be a case that the parts are worth more than the sum of the whole. As I can imagine a lot folks collecting these component by component. So even if you did end up selling the rest, you might not lose out monies wise. But that's hard to call.
> 
> *From a collectors point of view of course - it may seem absolute sacrilege! But IMHO life is too short and you could own something else that will no doubt give you a lot more pleasure. Like a 1280 for e.g.  *
> 
> The seed has been planted in your mind now... You'll start to begrudge it sitting in the rack before long haha


 
 For our fellow member just up the gorgeous West coast (Oregonian), I'm in agreement with you. Emotions will play a prominent role here - ones current and those still to come. Further, I'd personally find satisfaction that I've enjoyed the experience of being fully racked during a period of my life! 
  
 And I'd move on... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 knowing our tomorrow's are not guaranteed.


----------



## palmfish

I paid over $700 (a lot of money for a college student in 1985) for my cassette deck, and i just dont have the heart to sell it. Its black face, wood side panels and flourescent blue meters are just too pretty to hide. I keep it my stereo cabinet so i can ignore it in plain sight!


----------



## Silent One

Yeah... I know what you're sayin'. Emotions will make it tough whichever way you lean. _And rightfully so. _Otherwise, the deck would be fleeting, sorta like fast food. In your case, this deck continues to linger quite nicely.


----------



## Skylab

A properly working CT-F1000 is about as good as a cassette deck can be. Wonderful machines. That said, if you don't think you'd ever use it. I would sell it. One thing though - $1K is NOT typical for what they sell for. $3-500 is much more typical for a nice one.


----------



## jgreen16

The rack handles make a big difference in the price of the CT-F1000's as well. You can sell a clean set of the handles for $250-300 by themselves.

I know of one gentleman on the (in)famous auction site that has bought several sets of handles, as well as the CT-F1000 decks (working or not) for some fairly hefty prices. If interested, PM me for the details.


----------



## PhoenixG

For sale near me. No price on it. Almost afraid to ask...


----------



## Skylab

Nice looking! Are those 7800 or 8800 series? Either way, nice units...


----------



## harrinj

That 5XXX (forgot the exact numbers) Marantz cassette deck near me sold. So someone does buy them... I always hated tapes, From the hiss to the annoying rewinding...


----------



## PhoenixG

skylab said:


> Nice looking! Are those 7800 or 8800 series? Either way, nice units...


 
 I think the amp is a 7700 but the tuner is 8800. Or vice versa


----------



## joehalo

Guess what I found! I'm soooo excited!!! More pics once I get it all cleaned up.


----------



## Skylab

joehalo said:


> Guess what I found! I'm soooo excited!!! More pics once I get it all cleaned up.


----------



## MIKELAP

Quote: 





joehalo said:


> Guess what I found! I'm soooo excited!!! More pics once I get it all cleaned up.


----------



## Oregonian

joehalo said:


> Guess what I found! I'm soooo excited!!! More pics once I get it all cleaned up.


 

 "Found"?  Dude, you found the motherlode......................bring the pics and the story!


----------



## Silent One

joehalo said:


> Guess what I found! I'm soooo excited!!! More pics once I get it all cleaned up.


 
 This is at once funny AND fantastic!


----------



## PhoenixG

Congrats Joe and welcome to the club!
  
 On a more sober note, it's worth everyone's time to take a look at the scams going around the website.
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/beware-of-the-following-scams-and-people-abusing-the-classifieds


----------



## harrinj

How does one "find" an SX-1980? haha


----------



## jasonb

I might have asked this in here before, but I keep thinking about it off and on.
  
 How many think it would be worth it to restore an SX-750, or at least take it into a shop to see if it tests well or needs just a few parts to bring it back to spec? I don't care about the tuner or the phono input so maybe if I would tell the repair guy to not bother touching those components it would save some money. I just use the aux in from a USB DAC.

 I got mine for $40 at a flea market late last summer, wiped the dust off, sprayed some de-oxit in the pots, and have just been using it since. It sounds spectacular, but I always wonder if it could sound even better. 

 Cosmetically it is an 8 out of 10. It needs to be re-veneered since some of the corners are peeling a little bit, and I need to figure out what kind of cleaner is good to use on the silver front that is strong enough to really clean it without damaging it. 

 The only thing sonically that seems off is the balance needs to be just a hair to the left to make it sound even from left to right with speakers. With headphones the balance is perfect with the balance knob centered. None of the knobs are scratchy since I used the de-oxit last summer/fall. 

 I'm sure most would say to try to find an SX-1250 or something bigger instead of refurbishing the little 750, but for my setup the 750 already has just the right amount of power. For my little nearfield setup anything extra would just be a waste.


----------



## betweentheears

If it ain't broke..don't fix it !!!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think the sound quality between the 750 and 1250 is very similar (I had a 750 and now have a 1250).  The only difference I hear is in the additional "slam" I get at loud levels with my large Advents.


----------



## ssrock64

You'll certainly be throwing money at it with little to no return since the SX750 isn't worth all that much right now (though five years down the road, who knows...), but a well-serviced example will certainly sound better, be less finicky, and be more visually impressive than the way yours sits right now.


----------



## Silent One

speakerbox said:


> I think the sound quality between the 750 and 1250 is very similar (I had a 750 and now have a 1250).  *The only difference I hear is in the additional "slam" I get at loud levels with my large Advents.*


 
 As your neighbor, I wouldn't necessarily ask you to turn it down, would just make the occasional request.


----------



## SpeakerBox

silent one said:


> As your neighbor, I wouldn't necessarily ask you to turn it down, would just make the occasional request.


 
  
 Thanks for your patience with my audio addiction!


----------



## Skylab

ssrock64 said:


> You'll certainly be throwing money at it with little to no return since the SX750 isn't worth all that much right now (though five years down the road, who knows...), but a well-serviced example will certainly sound better, be less finicky, and be more visually impressive than the way yours sits right now.




This is really the way to look at it IMO. You won't get your money back later selling a restored SX-750. But if you want to keep it and use it for a long time, it's probably worth having some level of restore done.

That said, there have been a couple very nice looking restored SX-950 and 980s on the bay recently for fairly reasonable prices.


----------



## Silent One

I'm a little behind in my effort, but sold the _diminutive_





Sansui G-22000 last month to fellow member wotts (still have to carefully box and ship the little one). And I'm retrieving the Pioneers this weekend from storage to prep for sale. They'll be priced to move,  should someone be interested in a 1980 SX-D7000 (serviced, not restored) and 1977 SX-650 (un-restored; un-serviced but plays fine).
  
 Neither Pioneer is dressed to the nine's - a couple of small blemishes here and there. Will post pix over the weekend to show all sides.


----------



## DivineCurrent

I posted a topic in the amps forum about my Nakamichi TA-2A Tuner Amp, which is paired up with the Nakamichi CDP-2A (CD player). Both were bought new in 1988 by my dad, and were used for a little while until he lost interest in it a few years later and they have been sitting in a closet for 15+ years. 
 I have plugged in headphones such as the Shure SRH 940, Beyer DT880 (250 Ohms), AKG K240 Monitors, and AKG K550, all of which sound amazing with the Nak setup. 
 The TA-2A Amp has something called STASIS circuitry, which a few of you guys may be familiar with. It's the circuitry that Nelson Pass used and still uses with his high-end speaker amps such as First Watt. Now, while the TA-2A is not nearly that high-end, it is still a very high quality amp that makes all my headphones shine, which is what an amp is supposed to do right?


----------



## Oregonian

[/quote]





silent one said:


> I'm a little behind in my effort, but sold the _diminutive_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So after you sell the amps, what vintage will be left? Any?


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> So after you sell the amps, what vintage will be left? Any?


 
 None while I transition into the Labor force.


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> None while I transition into the Labor force.


 
 Well it'll be fun to start over again. Fresh start, so to speak


----------



## Victorecho

I am also a fan of the vintage receivers  I own a Kenwood KR 6030 and an Akai AA-A45 that I have had for many years. I've replaced the output I/C's in the Akai twice .Surprisingly they are still fairly inexpensive and available.


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> Well it'll be fun to start over again. Fresh start, so to speak


 
 I'm looking forward to going back to work at some point and earn but, the thought of scouring the EARTH for the fantastic four will be daunting!
 (Sansui G-33/22000; Pioneer 1980; Marantz 2600; Technics SA-1000)


----------



## SpeakerBox

victorecho said:


> I am also a fan of the vintage receivers  I own a Kenwood KR 6030 and an Akai AA-A45 that I have had for many years. I've replaced the output I/C's in the Akai twice .Surprisingly they are still fairly inexpensive and available.


 
  
 You have come to the right place.  Many of us are refurbishing and restoring pieces we have had for many years and those recently acquired.  A great hobby with great sonic payback!


----------



## lithium1085

I am curious about vintage preamps. Have any of you tried to compare them with vintage receivers or integrateds? My thought process is that they might have lower output impedance but still enough power for the majority of headphones.


----------



## dyang

lithium1085 said:


> I am curious about vintage preamps. Have any of you tried to compare them with vintage receivers or integrateds? My thought process is that they might have lower output impedance but still enough power for the majority of headphones.


 
  
  
 It's really a hit and miss pairing up a specific headphone to a vintage receivers.  Sometimes they pair good, sometimes not so well, sometimes it's "WOW that schiit is badass!"  
  
 For instance: My Audio Technica's and Senns pairs up well with Marantz 2230 but horrible MD and Beyers.  My vintage pioneer receiver goes well with my DT880's but not so hot with A/T and Senns.  My Sansui's are great with everything I have except DT880's.  "Get my drift?"  It's really a hit and miss.
  
 So I know which to go to when I pick up a certain headphone.


----------



## LugBug1

lithium1085 said:


> *I am curious about vintage preamps*. Have any of you tried to compare them with vintage receivers or integrateds? My thought process is that they might have lower output impedance but still enough power for the majority of headphones.


 
 Yes, I've often wondered how these would pair with headphones. In general would a stand alone vintage preamp have enough juice for modern headphones if not hooked up to a power amp?
  
 Anyone?


----------



## ssrock64

I used an inexpensive Dynaco PAT-4 for awhile, and it paired extremely well with Orthos, but not so much with high-impedance dynamic cans. Any low-impedance, high-sensitivity cans were beyond consideration because of static noise concerns, but the PAT-4 really made my Mad Dog LCD-2 sing.


----------



## moodyrn

I just received a marantz 1200b that was a parts repair unit. I may have overpaid a bit, but if I can get it working it would be worth it to me. It was described as having no sound. Usually that's nothing major. I also noticed that there were no preamp/amp jumpers in the back, and unlike the marantz receivers, they are needed on this one. But then I thought, well what if the seller is aware of that and purposely removed them to trick the potential buyer that was all they needed. Well I don't know if that's what he intended, but as soon as I turned it on, I realized that it needed more than jumpers since it never came out of protection.

The reasons I decided to pull the trigger on this one is the fact it's fairly rare, good condition cosmetically, and also came with a wc 10 cab. It's also a combination of a 3300 preamp and 250 power amp and is rumored that they sound much more accurate than their receiver. So time will tell. I'm really hoping its relay problem. But after narrowing the problem down, I do plan to fully restore it though. I read on many occasions a 1200/1200b restored is something to behold.


----------



## Silent One

_Both the find and your ambition...very nice._


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks!!

Well good and bad news on the relay front. The relay is unobtainium. The good news is, there's an omron relay that can be rewired internally and modded by clipping off some pins and bending the remaining pins. But upon initial inspection, someone either tried or did a bad job of removing the relay board. A very shotty job of soldering. The half axx job they did left some strands of wire exposed and touching other strands of wire from wires next to them. So I'm hoping there's no further damage. This is a good example of why many repair men refuse to go behind someone else's work.


----------



## LugBug1

Good luck with the 1200b moody! 
  
 I've never come across one at my neck of the woods, but I'm guessing that they would cost about an average months wage if one did.. The higher end Marantz are becoming stupidly expensive this side of the Atlantic.
  
 Heres an old promo pic for the viewers out there


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks. They are pretty rare over here too. The 1200 is also rare, but not quiet as rare as the B version though. I will say I'm pretty impressed with the build quality. It's on another level from both the 2325 and 2330b I used to own. It pretty much falls in line in comparison to what they say over at ak about the early marantz integrated. The consensus is they are even better than the early mac integrateds. Mcintosh didn't really get serious with integrateds until the 6200. Now that's a really nice one that's on my short list.


----------



## PhoenixG

Nice job Moody. So many great finds from you!
  
 I had this guy follow me home recently. It lived in my back room until I got around to cleaning it up. Now I'm just waiting for the deoxit to dry.
  

 It's a Realistic 2000D. I think Realistics tend to be overlooked in general, but their vintage units tend to have a build & sonic quality far above average on their better (and even lower end) models, which can be found at bargain prices in the used market. While I doubt that this guy will be able to compete with the monsters in my main and secondary rigs, I'm hoping it will compete well above it's weight class. If it does well, I'll probably farm it out to a friend after having my fun with it.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, and you're right about realistic. They do tend to overlooked. The 2000d itself is a nice receiver, very interested in your impressions once you spend time with it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Went to an estate sale today where they had a Fisher 500c for sale. Another guy beat me to it, but both he and I passed on it as they wanted $1000 for it and could not say if it was operational.  I think that is the only vintage piece that would make me think about selling my SX1250.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> Went to an estate sale today where they had a Fisher 500c for sale. Another guy beat me to it, but both he and I passed on it as they wanted $1000 for it and could not say if it was operational.  I think that is the only vintage piece that would make me think about selling my SX1250.


 
 That is insane money for one of those, especially in an untested state! Maybe if it had been fully redone by a known guru...
 You don't need one of them to have a nice night listening to your music. Watch your 1250's needles dance!


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> That is insane money for one of those, especially in an untested state! Maybe if it had been fully redone by a known guru...
> You don't need one of them to have a nice night listening to your music. Watch your 1250's needles dance!


 
  
 Agree - no way I was taking a chance - unfortunately no power meters on the 1250 - but it kicks backside just the same!


----------



## moodyrn

Wow untested and 1000.00? Restored yes, but man these fisher prices are getting insane. I was in negotiation with a guy once who wanted way too much for a vintage piece I was interested in. When I pointed out what the going rate was, he countered with how much it would cost to get something modern that sounded as good. So of course I passed, but the darn thing sold a couple of days later.:eek:


----------



## terry parr

haven't seen many mentions of older JVC gear.  the older receiver i have (even though i have no use for the tuner, radio reception is fine), is certainly not "classic" by any stretch (since it certainly won't win any awards in the looks dept!)
  
 but, the headphone out on this thing is impressive.  i'm using it as a headphone amp only, anyway, as i have the CARVER connected to speakers.
  
 the JVC drives my AKG 701's quite nicely.  (brings out the bass quality and texture, w/o just adding more "boom").  the headphone output has noticeably more "slam" and "impact", which makes it good if you're in the mood to hear some classic BOSTON, or other hard-driving stuff.  it's a good amp if you want to hear something loud at 2:00am
  
 the CARVER, i'll reserve for piano-based, trio jazz (when i want a more finely-detailed, "refined" listen).
  
   the JVC wears the blue jeans, but can't wear a tie.  the JVC is  not the kind of piece that you look foreward to "showing off" to anybody, but like i say...the h/p out on this thing rocks!
  
 it's the RX-317.
  
 c'mon, guys.  let's show some love for the old "japanese victor" legacy!
  
 i must be in the minority as far as appreciating this amp, because after looking it up i didn't come across many reviews on it, either good or bad.


----------



## LugBug1

terry parr said:


> haven't seen many mentions of older JVC gear.  the older receiver i have (even though i have no use for the tuner, radio reception is fine), is certainly not "classic" by any stretch (since it certainly won't win any awards in the looks dept!)
> 
> but, the headphone out on this thing is impressive.  i'm using it as a headphone amp only, anyway, as i have the CARVER connected to speakers.
> 
> ...


 
 Good stuff. Yeah I found that the AKG 701's work really well with these older amps in general. Helps to add some meat on to the bones - so to speak.
 I've not had much experience with JVC, but when I was a teenager I had a JVC midi system (1980's) and it lasted me years and I thought it sounded great. My dad is a hifi nut and he chose it for me so I know it must have been good enough. JVC is a very old company and kind of a 'Jack of all trades' pioneers in Japan with tv's and they introduced VHS!  Although their hifi gear is respectable, I don't think it could compete with the big names such as Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, Marantz for e.g. Their more commercial hifi stuff became much more popular in the 80's and 90's. A quick google and you can see some lovely looking machines. But I must stress that I've not heard any real vintage JVC so pinch of salt required with my generalisations.  
  
 This hobby is all about finding gold in the strangest of places! It can also be frustrating if you find a an 'oddity' or an amp that no-one has documented and it sounds effing marvelous to you! But the more we document these old machines then the more helpful it is for all of us.


----------



## joehalo

She cleaned up great and sounds amazing. She belonged to my dads best friend. He found out I've been collecting vintage audio via my dad and he offered to let me have his sx-1980 to clean up and use as long as I don't ever sell it! To think he had this sitting in his basement for years unused!


----------



## LugBug1

Sounds like a good deal to me joe! 
  
 Took the liberty of expanding this pic. Absolutely gorgeous!! Super condition.


----------



## analogsurviver

lithium1085 said:


> I am curious about vintage preamps. Have any of you tried to compare them with vintage receivers or integrateds? My thought process is that they might have lower output impedance but still enough power for the majority of headphones.


 
 You have to know EXACTLY what you are doing. Without at least some basic understanding and knowledge in electronics - forget it, as it is very easy to make irreparable damage,both to preamp and phones.
  
 Otherwise - Perreaux SM-2 ( or 3 ) preamp - PROPERLY modified to drive dynamic headphones - runs rings, alfas, betas, omegas and _*Ž*_ - s ( a letter *after* THE Z IN OUR ALPHABET ) around anything yet mentioned in this thread. It is a class A device with + - 45 V power supply ( with MORE capacitance than most POWER amps...) - 
 and simply has to be heard to be believed. 
  
 There is one preamp that I am slooooowly putting in my crosshairs - Great American Sound Thaedra.  This thing is reportedly one of if not THE best solid state preamps ver made - and sports a KILLER pair of headphone jacks on the front plate - NOT some afterthought as in most cases, there is  proper headphone amp section built in the Thaedra. .
  
 Thaedra is relatively very rare, HAS to be refurbished due to age, therefore after all is said and done, it can never be cheap. But if you are after the end game ...


----------



## lithium1085

Thanks for the absolutely great information. It seems that you have spent some time, effort and money in discovering these gems. I am not really thinking about modifying preamps as my knowledge of electronics is poor at best. Hopefully sometime in the future. Any others that you have run across that have a good headphone out( preferably cheaper than a thaedra!) ?


----------



## analogsurviver

lithium1085 said:


> Thanks for the absolutely great information. It seems that you have spent some time, effort and money in discovering these gems. I am not really thinking about modifying preamps as my knowledge of electronics is poor at best. Hopefully sometime in the future. Any others that you have run across that have a good headphone out( preferably cheaper than a thaedra!) ?


 
 Listening to http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/
*A DIY PORTABLE HEADPHONE AMPLIFIER WITH USB-DAC​* as I write this ( lazy me - did not stuff the DAC section - YET ) - made by myself, with all the bells & wistles I could *still* somehow incorporate, beg, borrow, steal or "procure". You can go crazy with power supply(ies...) - depending how much juice your cans require. But - even if you stick strictly to the supplied instructions - it is still a great sounding amp - if your cans can survive with a single 9V battery as power supply, portable to boot. It offers a very decent crossfeed feature - it may be necessary to compensate for the (sliigt) loss of the LF in crossfeed mode with ( GOOD ! ) tone controls - but paired with decent cans, can  project most "out of the head" listening soundstage. Pushing one of the very best IEMs regarding soundstage at the moment  -  the Havi B3 ( Original Version ) 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711582/havi-b3-pro-1-appreciation-thread
  
 No one can accuse you being a spendthrift with this one - but if put together well, guaranteed to produce 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !


----------



## Oregonian

joehalo said:


> She cleaned up great and sounds amazing. She belonged to my dads best friend. He found out I've been collecting vintage audio via my dad and he offered to let me have his sx-1980 to clean up and use as long as I don't ever sell it! To think he had this sitting in his basement for years unused!


 
  
 What an awesome guy to do that for you...................congrats!


----------



## moodyrn

Wow congrats joehalo. What a great deal!! Essentially a free 1980 in great condition. Now that's a score!


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> What an awesome guy to do that for you...................congrats!


 
 +1.


----------



## Skylab

No kidding! Welcome to the SX-1980 owners' club, Joe. I can tell you that we are all a pretty happy bunch


----------



## joehalo

Thanks! I'm a little worried my IKEA expedit is going to break from its weight.


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> No kidding! Welcome to the SX-1980 owners' club, Joe. I can tell you that we are all a pretty happy bunch


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

80's Kenwood reporting in.
I'm considering upgrading my center piece, it doesn't seem to be doing my loudspeakers justice anymore. It sometimes doesn't push out sound to one or both channels when I turn it on and I have to twist the volume knob all around. I'm looking for something decently budget, sub 200$, vintage preferred, with enough inputs and able to fit in the space I have my current receiver in. Tubes would be awesome.

Edit, MUST MUST MUUUUST have phono amp built in.


----------



## SpeakerBox

ahorsenamedjeff said:


> 80's Kenwood reporting in.
> I'm considering upgrading my center piece, it doesn't seem to be doing my loudspeakers justice anymore. It sometimes doesn't push out sound to one or both channels when I turn it on and I have to twist the volume knob all around. I'm looking for something decently budget, sub 200$, vintage preferred, with enough inputs and able to fit in the space I have my current receiver in. Tubes would be awesome.


 
  
 Seems that a good treatment of DeoxIt on the volume control might solve your problems and remove the need to upgrade.


----------



## AHorseNamedJeff

speakerbox said:


> ahorsenamedjeff said:
> 
> 
> > 80's Kenwood reporting in.
> ...


hmm really? Why is that? I got that exact same response in a different thread.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The problem as you have described indicates a dirty volume control.  DeoxIt is what you use to fix that problem.


----------



## roadcykler

speakerbox said:


> The problem as you have described indicates a dirty volume control.  DeoxIt is what you use to fix that problem.


 
 Yeah but then he can't upgrade to a new receiver. You're no fun at all.


----------



## LugBug1

roadcykler said:


> Yeah but then he can't upgrade to a new receiver. You're no fun at all.


 
 I would deoxIT the volume and then get a new receiver aswell  
  
 @AHorseNamedJeff  DeoxIT should be used on all old vintage gear. Clean all the pots and switches, as the audio signal travels through them all. Dirty controls = Dirty sound!


----------



## SpeakerBox

roadcykler said:


> Yeah but then he can't upgrade to a new receiver. You're no fun at all.


 
  
 Just call me Mr. Kill Joy.


----------



## ssrock64

My AMC 1100 preamp (not vintage, I know, but old enough to start having electrical issues) is having trouble getting contact in both channels through its 1/4" headphone jack. I have to find a sweet spot twisting the cord back and forth where both channels will make contact, which is a process that can take up to twenty seconds or so. I haven't yet taken the case off to see if anything's obviously amiss inside, but it seems like it may be getting worse over time. Does that sound like something that could be fixed through a simple dose of DeoxIT, or is it more likely to be a deeper failure?
  
 In other news, I've bought another Dynaco PAT-4 after my old one encountered issues that would've cost me much more than the unit was worth to fix. This new one has been properly looked after and recently serviced (_without_ melting bulb glue like what was done to my SX780), and it sounds very crisp and powerful. In fact, it's one of the few amps I've owned that makes a large portion of my headphone collection too bright for my ears, but it's perfect for balancing out the HD650's darker sound signature.


----------



## jasonb

I'm curious what people are doing as far as subwoofers and low pass filters and high pass filters with vintage gear. 
  
 I'm using an SX-750 with some Pioneer bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. I'm using the line level inputs on the sub and using the crossover knob on the subwoofer itself which is no big deal. The sub is crossed at about 60hz. The thing that bothers me most is that I'm running my little bookshelf speakers full range 20hz - 20khz. I'm using them near field so it's not taking much power to get them going, so I'm not too worried about them trying to play the frequencies below 60hz or so. For the first couple weeks I used these bookshelf speakers with the grilles off so I could watch the cone excursion and to my surprise I never saw them moving all that much even on the bassiest music. I'm just curious as to what people are doing here in this regard. 
  
 My speakers have a sensitivity of 87db at 1 watt at 1 meter. Using a digital Radio Shack SPL meter I never see myself listening at higher than 90db, even on peaks. I'm always listening somewhere in the 70-85db range. So looking at the math it seems that I'm never giving these speakers more than 2 watts each. Most of the time, especially night time listening when I listen at under 80db, if the math is right they aren't even getting a full watt each. This seems crazy low and hard to believe, but if this is true, then these speakers should have no problems being run full range. 
  
 If they are really 87db at 1 watt at 1 meter then here is the math, +3db = double the power.
 87db @ 1 watt
 90db @ 2 watts
 93db @ 4 watts
 96db @ 8 watts 
 99db @ 16 watts 
 102db @ 32 watts
 105db @ 64 watts
  
 Is anybody else running small(ish) speakers full range on their vintage amp? If so, have any comments or concerns?


----------



## SpeakerBox

ssrock64 said:


> My AMC 1100 preamp (not vintage, I know, but old enough to start having electrical issues) is having trouble getting contact in both channels through its 1/4" headphone jack. I have to find a sweet spot twisting the cord back and forth where both channels will make contact, which is a process that can take up to twenty seconds or so. I haven't yet taken the case off to see if anything's obviously amiss inside, but it seems like it may be getting worse over time. Does that sound like something that could be fixed through a simple dose of DeoxIT, or is it more likely to be a deeper failure?
> 
> In other news, I've bought another Dynaco PAT-4 after my old one encountered issues that would've cost me much more than the unit was worth to fix. This new one has been properly looked after and recently serviced (_without_ melting bulb glue like what was done to my SX780), and it sounds very crisp and powerful. In fact, it's one of the few amps I've owned that makes a large portion of my headphone collection too bright for my ears, but it's perfect for balancing out the HD650's darker sound signature.


 
  
 I have heard of DeoxIt helping with dirty HP jack connections.  You may also consider bad solder joints on the HP jack or a intermittent cable/plug leading to the headphones.
  
 Nice find on the PAT-4.


----------



## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> I have heard of DeoxIt helping with dirty HP jack connections.  You may also consider bad solder joints on the HP jack or a intermittent cable/plug leading to the headphones.
> 
> Nice find on the PAT-4.


 
 It's the second PAT-4 I've owned in as many years, and with any luck this one won't self-destruct. I love the way they sound, but they're not exactly known for reliability.


----------



## harrinj

My Marantz 2226B left channel has stopped working and will only work if I use the main in - pre out jacks on the back. I'm taking it in to a place to have a light replaced I cannot change but this sucks... It worked perfect last time I used it. so my H/K 670 did the same thing and now my 2226B... all the controls are very clean etc. It's like they are all mad at me because I favor my 4270


----------



## PhoenixG

jasonb said:


> I'm curious what people are doing as far as subwoofers and low pass filters and high pass filters with vintage gear.
> 
> I'm using an SX-750 with some Pioneer bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. I'm using the line level inputs on the sub and using the crossover knob on the subwoofer itself which is no big deal. The sub is crossed at about 60hz. The thing that bothers me most is that I'm running my little bookshelf speakers full range 20hz - 20khz. I'm using them near field so it's not taking much power to get them going, so I'm not too worried about them trying to play the frequencies below 60hz or so. For the first couple weeks I used these bookshelf speakers with the grilles off so I could watch the cone excursion and to my surprise I never saw them moving all that much even on the bassiest music. I'm just curious as to what people are doing here in this regard.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm using infinity entra pointe 5's (small guys) on my sony str-6120 with a separate powered woofer. They claim a frequency response between 50 and 20,000 Hz. That being said, a lot of music has frequencies down to/below 20 Hz in the subsonic region. I find that when I try to feed a lot of bass to the small speakers, they'll keep taking power until the cones bottom out (which is reeealy bad for them). If you take a bit of the load off their bass, you can A) turn your music up louder and B) get much better bass reproduction. Remember that the stated roll-off frequency is the corner frequency, defined as the point at which the response is -3dB (3 dB down) from the average response. This means that the point at which you start losing the response is likely many Hz higher, possibly as high as 500Hz for a 1st order system, but likely closer to 100-150 Hz for more sophisticated speakers (based on box volume if not ported & x-over design). If you have access to their response curves, you should ideally try to set your woofer x-over frequency so that the combined curve is a flat as possible (though I personally like a little sub&ultra sonic boost). I have mine set at 100 Hz, for comparison.
  
 Regarding filters, I don't use them in my system. The bookshelf speakers have a nice roll off and the woofer has a tuneable cutoff LPF that nicely picks up the slack. I just adjust the gain on the woofer to get the desired response and take advantage of the natural roll off of the bookshelfs to get a nice effect.
  
 Considering that your speakers are not played very loudly, it is not at all surprising to hear how little power you use with them. Rule of thumb, about 1 watt will give nice conversation level music, 2 watts will be loud enough to be distracting, 4 watts will overpower conversations within 10 feet, 20 watts will shake the windows of a studio apartment, and 60 watts will make a normal suburban home very loud inside throughout and probably loud outside as well. Anything more and the cops are coming/ you will need a bouncer for your night club. Unless you like a lot of bass, in which case quadruple all those numbers to feed your hungry subwoofer(s). 
  
 I run somewhat inefficient speakers on my main system (sx-1980, mcintosh XR-250's), but even at 10w/per, I am overpowering every other human or mechanical noise in the house. Including my terrible attempts to sing along haha. Lucky me. 
  
 You might still think those are all small numbers. They are. Marketing people long ago realized that people want more power and BIGGER numbers sell more units. There is a whole bevy of marketing math lies that are told to inflate specs. If you deconstruct the math going into a car power amplifier that claims "1000W", you might find that they are actually more like 20 rms continuous into 8 ohms after you get past all the smoke and mirrors. Don't get me wrong, 20 W will shake your guts when it's all bass in a small car, but it's a far far cry from 1kW.


----------



## Oregonian

jasonb said:


> I'm curious what people are doing as far as subwoofers and low pass filters and high pass filters with vintage gear.
> 
> I'm using an SX-750 with some Pioneer bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. I'm using the line level inputs on the sub and using the crossover knob on the subwoofer itself which is no big deal. The sub is crossed at about 60hz. The thing that bothers me most is that I'm running my little bookshelf speakers full range 20hz - 20khz. I'm using them near field so it's not taking much power to get them going, so I'm not too worried about them trying to play the frequencies below 60hz or so. For the first couple weeks I used these bookshelf speakers with the grilles off so I could watch the cone excursion and to my surprise I never saw them moving all that much even on the bassiest music. I'm just curious as to what people are doing here in this regard.
> 
> ...


 

 I guess it's relative, but I am running my DX-3 Cerwin Vega speakers (10" woofer) out of my Spec 2 amp (rated at 250wpc, but tested at 310wpc), so they are woefully under spec for the, um, Spec amp output.  Certainly on paper they are but the reality is I've never ran them over 50wpc peak on my power meters on the Spec, and THAT was loud.  No need for a sub with my setup as it already can rattle literally the entire top floor of the house at a reasonable 10wpc (roughly).  CV's are very efficient, tho I'm not sure of the rating, but if I remember right it's like 97db @ 1 watt so it doesn't take much to get them moving.


----------



## Silent One

I finally arrived home this evening from storage with all three vintage lovelies in tow. I'm going to have play dates from tonight thru Sunday. I've the G-22000 on one dolly, the SX-D7000 & SX-650 on another. The return of my newly hardwired HE-6 prompted this move despite lacking any real open space. 
  
 Considering how motivated and creative we become in this hobby to make things work out, it wouldn't surprise me if the devil himself was a vintage gear collector!


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> I finally arrived home this evening from storage with all three vintage lovelies in tow. I'm going to have play dates from tonight thru Sunday. I've the G-22000 on one dolly, the SX-D7000 & SX-650 on another. The return of my newly hardwired HE-6 prompted this move despite lacking any real open space.
> 
> Considering how motivated and creative we become in this hobby to make things work out, it wouldn't surprise me if the devil himself was a vintage gear collector!


 
 Happy holiday listening!!


----------



## MIKELAP

What do you guys think of a Sansui G-5000 was made between 1978 -1980 is it warmer sounding than the Pioneer's SX line ,i have a SX 750.  .Is it worth it for $175.00 are parts available also . Thanks.


----------



## LugBug1

mikelap said:


> What do you guys think of a Sansui G-5000 was made between 1978 -1980 is it warmer sounding than the Pioneer's SX line ,i have a SX 750.  .Is it worth it for $175.00 are parts available also . Thanks.


 
 I haven't heard the G-5000 but I do think that is a good price if it is in good condition. It was $470 when it was released in 78. 
  
 The stereo-typical sound of 70's Sansui is more silky/warm than Pioneer ime. Whether it will be better for you than your SX750 however, no one can tell you. But theres only one way to find out! Sansui are my favorite vintage make. 
  
 It is a lovely looking machine, and it does have a 20db mute which is ideal for headphone use.


----------



## SpeakerBox

My Pioneer SX-1250 is quite bright (maybe a bit much for me - but could be fixed with other speakers).  A real contrast to my Rowland amps which would be classified as dark.


----------



## Silent One

mikelap said:


> What do you guys think of a Sansui G-5000 was made between 1978 -1980 is it warmer sounding than the Pioneer's SX line ,i have a SX 750.  .Is it worth it for $175.00 are parts available also . Thanks.


 
 Good thing I don't live in the Great White North, I'd get a speeding ticket on a Jet-ski if snow tried to prevent a quick purchase! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 That thing is gorgeous and I do love the sound of my former G-22000, so there's my vote.
  
 A few parts may prove unobtainium but there will still be replacement parts, just not always original.


----------



## herbie12389

This is a sweeet thread! I can't wait to start uploading pics of what I have floating around. Got one for sale on ebay now!


----------



## herbie12389

silent one said:


> Good thing I don't live in the Great White North, I'd get a speeding ticket on a Jet-ski if snow tried to prevent a quick purchase!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sweet looking piece


----------



## Magick Man

I snagged a fully-functional NAD 3020a from Goodwill today for $25, not too bad. The HP out on it sounds great.


----------



## LugBug1

magick man said:


> I snagged a fully-functional NAD 3020a from Goodwill today for $25, not too bad. The HP out on it sounds great.


 
 You are a winner today buddy! Those normally go for at least $200 for good condition. But thats also a rare silver face version. 
  
 I've got my HD800 plugged into one as I type (later "i" version) and I agree the hp out is great. I was that impressed with it I bought a further 3 NAD amps for use with headphones. Such a natural tone - a little dark but well balanced and controlled. They have a very addictive sound quality imo, especially if you are after a more analogue like sound.


----------



## Rossliew

lugbug1 said:


> You are a winner today buddy! Those normally go for at least $200 for good condition. But thats also a rare silver face version.
> 
> I've got my HD800 plugged into one as I type (later "i" version) and I agree the hp out is great. I was that impressed with it I bought a further 3 NAD amps for use with headphones. Such a natural tone - a little dark but well balanced and controlled. They have a very addictive sound quality imo, especially if you are after a more analogue like sound.


 
 Does the headphone out relatively tame the "brightness" of the HD800?


----------



## OldSkool

lugbug1 said:


> You are a winner today buddy! Those normally go for at least $200 for good condition. But thats also a rare silver face version.
> 
> I've got my HD800 plugged into one as I type (later "i" version) and I agree the hp out is great. I was that impressed with it I bought a further 3 NAD amps for use with headphones. Such a natural tone - a little dark but well balanced and controlled. They have a very addictive sound quality imo, especially if you are after a more analogue like sound.


 

 "a little dark but well balanced and controlled."
  
 Sounds like you are describing a Marantz 22XX. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As soon as I get a functioning HD800 cable, I will try it with my recapped 2226B and report back.


----------



## ssrock64

magick man said:


> I snagged a fully-functional NAD 3020a from Goodwill today for $25, not too bad. The HP out on it sounds great.


 
 Where do you guys keep finding Goodwill stores with such great gear? The best thing I ever found at mine was a $15 Onkyo CD player that wouldn't play the first track of any CD.


----------



## harrinj

ssrock64 said:


> Where do you guys keep finding Goodwill stores with such great gear? The best thing I ever found at mine was a $15 Onkyo CD player that wouldn't play the first track of any CD.


 
 I've wondered this for awhile. Each goodwill store I go into is almost all clothes and nothing else but total junk. I'm not fond of going into them so I've stopped as it's just a go in for 20 seconds see there's nothing and get out deal...


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> Does the headphone out relatively tame the "brightness" of the HD800?


 
 Yes, but It doesn't dull the treble at all, just smooths it out. To be fair most good amps do this  But I'm also from the camp that doesn't think that the HD800 are too bright anyway. 
  
 The old NAD amps have a kind of 'chocolaty' sound. They aren't the last word in detail and transparency but they have such a seductive (and I think natural) tone. They make the Chameleon that is the HD800 sound more planar-esque. More 'liquidy'.


----------



## Magick Man

ssrock64 said:


> Where do you guys keep finding Goodwill stores with such great gear? The best thing I ever found at mine was a $15 Onkyo CD player that wouldn't play the first track of any CD.




A lot of the time, the girl at Goodwill holds the stuff for me to look at.


----------



## Magick Man

Turns out I've noticed a few bad things w/ the NAD.

1. There's a 2dB channel imbalance, R>L.
2. the left channel is noticeably brighter than the right.
3. It clicks and pops a little after it's been on for > half an hour.

I turned it over to my electronics guy to check it out, he says he can fix and freshen it up, which I want to do since it's so old and rare.


----------



## palmfish

lugbug1 said:


> Yes, but It doesn't dull the treble at all, just smooths it out. To be fair most good amps do this  But I'm also from the camp that doesn't think that the HD800 are too bright anyway.
> 
> The old NAD amps have a kind of 'chocolaty' sound. They aren't the last word in detail and transparency but they have such a seductive (and I think natural) tone. They make the Chameleon that is the HD800 sound more planar-esque. More 'liquidy'.


 
  
 The NAD headphone out has quite a high output impedance.


----------



## LugBug1

magick man said:


> Turns out I've noticed a few bad things w/ the NAD.
> 
> 1. There's a 2dB channel imbalance, R>L.
> 2. the left channel is noticeably brighter than the right.
> ...


 
 Shame about that, but yes I would get it fixed up. I would personally pay through the nose for that machine in good condition.
  


palmfish said:


> The NAD headphone out has quite a high output impedance.


 
 Yup bud, it suits the high impedance of the Senn's very well. Also, they're the only vintage amps where I don't get any 'hiss like' noise at all through the headphone out with the HD800 both at no volume and turned up. Black backround, as good as any good dedicated amp. And believe me this is rare with vintage amps and the sensitive Senn's!
  
 I also have a 7125 NAD receiver (same age as the early 3020) and this doesn't have the 20db mute. But is still quiet as a mouse surprisingly.


----------



## Magick Man

My stereo guy said the damping factor on the NAD I have is very high for its age, >40 into 8 Ohms. Wouldn't that imply that the HP-out would be pretty low resistance, since it runs off the same circuit, with only a couple resistors in the path for safety?

I got an email from saying he's going to recap it with tighter tolerance parts, and replace a good bit of the relays. Plus swap the volume pot with a fine-stepped attenuator.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I am still flippin out over this thing. The loudness button is like the best/cleanest bass boost I have ever heard literally/period/ever/ with no noticeable fogging up of the midrange. Its better than the emotiva mini with speaker taps I had. I also dont know if I bought a good one because I was too young to care when these things came out.
*I have never been so happy with a purchase ever in my whole life!!!*







Spoiler: pics of what it is...heck i dont even freakin know




  

  



 NEWB Questions.
  
 1. Did I buy a good one?( I know my ears say yes but I will upgrade if necessary)
 2. Why would anyone buy an expensive amp over these(besides desk to realestate)
 I guess at this point I am dependent on the guy at the store to tell me which one is the best in sound quality. He recommended this one for the price and wouldn't even waiver in opinion on it vs any of the others in its price range. 
*3. would something like this do the same thing through the headphone out or does it have to be vintage? *http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RS500/Yamaha-R-S500.html?tp=47041
  
 I dont know... excuse my elation but I am trippin out right now. For 150 its impossible, in every sense of the word impossible, to beat this unless someone gives you one for free. Something I would do just to share the joy(if I could find another).


----------



## LugBug1

magick man said:


> My stereo guy said the damping factor on the NAD I have is very high for its age, >40 into 8 Ohms. Wouldn't that imply that the HP-out would be pretty low resistance, since it runs off the same circuit, with only a couple resistors in the path for safety?
> 
> I got an email from saying he's going to recap it with tighter tolerance parts, and replace a good bit of the relays. Plus swap the volume pot with a fine-stepped attenuator.


 
 That would explain a lot actually. Maybe that is why I'm getting such a black backround. It would also explain why my Grado's sound great aswell !..
  
 That is very helpful information thank you. 
  
 Look forward to impressions once he has done his thing.


----------



## LugBug1

grizzlybeast said:


> I am still flippin out over this thing.
> *I have never been so happy with a purchase ever in my whole life!!!*
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In all honesty buddy, you'll be hard to find many amps that are better through the hp out than old NAD's (IN MY EXPERIENCE!) 
  
 You've struck gold very early.


----------



## grizzlybeast

woo hoo


----------



## af0h

Best I've found so far at the local thrift stores is an old Pioneer SX-450 and a Sony CDP-302 CD Player - both for $10 each. 
  
 The SX-450 only needed the controls cleaned (crunchy and noisy), and the CD player needed the lens cleaned, and the old dried-up grease removed. It then got a good thin white lithium grease applied to the loading rails and gears.  Man it sure does load quietly and quickly now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
 I love the transport system used in that old player, they sure don't make 'em like that anymore.  Almost 15-pounds and mostly metal, love the build quality of the old Sony players.


----------



## Oregonian

af0h said:


> Best I've found so far at the local thrift stores is an old Pioneer SX-450 and a Sony CDP-302 CD Player - both for $10 each.
> 
> The SX-450 only needed the controls cleaned (crunchy and noisy), and the CD player needed the lens cleaned, and the old dried-up grease removed. It then got a good thin white lithium grease applied to the loading rails and gears.  Man it sure does load quietly and quickly now.
> 
> ...


 

 Pics..................please....................


----------



## MIKELAP




----------



## af0h

oregonian said:


> Pics..................please....................


 

 As soon as I can, I guarantee I will.  (long time lurker, new member)


----------



## Mach-X

I've found the best headphone out is when I wired a headphone extension cable directly to the speaker outs. Effortless power, high s/n.


----------



## af0h

mach-x said:


> I've found the best headphone out is when I wired a headphone extension cable directly to the speaker outs. Effortless power, high s/n.


 

 Yeah - Yeah, can drive even the most inefficient headphones into meltdown.


----------



## grizzlybeast

I cant imagine needing more power than the heapdhone out of my receiver.


----------



## Silent One

With some of us it's simply because we can.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> With some of us it's simply because we can.


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a Marantz 4270 on craigslist with wood case. This thing is just about mint condition on the inside and out.


----------



## PhoenixG

harrinj said:


> Picked up a Marantz 4270 on craigslist with wood case. This thing is just about mint condition on the inside and out.


 
 Finally a break for you! Congrats!


----------



## harrinj

phoenixg said:


> Finally a break for you! Congrats!




Haha thanks! I'll post some pictures tonight once its all polished up. I just randomly looked at Craigslist and it was posted just two hours before! After all this year of being basically nothing on there


----------



## af0h

Some of those older Marantz units were monsters and sounded great - smooth and warm.
  
 Let us know how it's headphone amp sounds.


----------



## grizzlybeast

deleted...


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> With some of us it's simply because we can.


 





 ... - if you EVER monitored real music off some really good recording on an oscilloscope ( comparing the input to the power amp with its output  )  , you would quickly learn you can (almost - except with super efficient speakers ) NEVER have enough, let alone too much power. Whether the speakers can use it to convert to sound without selfdestructing is yet another matter ...
  
 The peaks that are short enough in duration for humans not to be able to discern them as clipped/distorted
 can exceed what we think is "perfect" -  by 6 and more dBs ... Setting the volume so that an amp is always within its clipping capabilities will generally produce too low listening level. ( basically, the same thing as loudness wars in mastering of the CDs these days )
  
 That is why tube amplification manufacturers are boasting "their" watts are more "powerful" than transistor variety.
 When clipped, tubes behave in much more benign way than transistors - yielding resulting distortion audibly lower. For this distortion during the overload to remain approximately comparable, a transistor amp has to be much more powerful than the tube one - at least twice, preferably 4 times.
  
 100 W tube amps are reasonably common - 400 W good sounding trannies are scarce. Monster Pioneer receivers on this thread do come close...


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> ... - if you EVER monitored real music off some really good recording on an oscilloscope ( comparing the input to the power amp with its output  )  , you would quickly learn you can (almost - except with super efficient speakers ) NEVER have enough, let alone too much power. Whether the speakers can use it to convert to sound without selfdestructing is yet another matter ...
> 
> The peaks that are short enough in duration for humans not to be able to discern them as clipped/distorted
> can exceed what we think is "perfect" -  by 6 and more dBs ... Setting the volume so that an amp is always within its clipping capabilities will generally produce too low listening level. ( basically, the same thing as loudness wars in mastering of the CDs these days )
> ...


 
 I've monitored real music over the years in studios but never with an oscilloscope; wasn't my aim at the time. Your example sounds a lot like the analogy of cars, motors, horsepower and torque converters. Give me your biggest baddest motor but if you can't efficiently convert it and put it on the ground, well... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 To be clear, I wasn't making a case for having enough or way too much power to drive headphones. Rather, that some of us already have the quantity of power we do in-house and chose to drive our HE-6 with 'em. And we got enough to handle it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I do understand where you're coming from.


----------



## analogsurviver

silent one said:


> I've monitored real music over the years in studios but never with an oscilloscope; wasn't my aim at the time. Your example sounds a lot like the analogy of cars, motors, horsepower and torque converters. Give me your biggest baddest motor but if you can't efficiently convert it and put it on the ground, well...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, for the HE-6 (although never saw one in flesh) it should be more than enough. And having it in-house rather having to buy is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 Jecklin Float (electrostatic, either vintage or new age reincarnation by Quad Atelier of Germany )  - THAT can hardly ever have "enough". Magnaplanar Tympani, itself not known to be the most efficient speakers on the planet, barely moved the meters of a Phase Linear 700B - those meters REALLY came to life when pushing Floats at about the same SPL ...


----------



## Mach-X

For me it's a matter of 'why not?' With 64 ohm headphones I still get reasonable range on the volume dial, so why not use ALL the capability of the amp instead of a cutdown version


----------



## Silent One

mach-x said:


> For me it's a matter of 'why not?' With 64 ohm headphones I still get reasonable range on the volume dial, so why not use ALL the capability of the amp instead of a cutdown version


 
 I agree. With 2 monster receivers and a pair of mono blocks, my HE-6 has shown me so much love I'm suspicious.


----------



## af0h

af0h said:


> Best I've found so far at the local thrift stores is an old Pioneer SX-450 and a Sony CDP-302 CD Player - both for $10 each.


 
 Also pictured first is a $10 craigslist cd player - the Sony CDP-397 (which worked perfectly after a good cleaning/lubricating)...


----------



## harrinj

This month must be 2220B month on CL because it's popping up everywhere!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Ya, we got one here in Rochester with wood case for $200:
  
 http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/4385104874.html


----------



## harrinj

speakerbox said:


> Ya, we got one here in Rochester with wood case for $200:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah same here one with wood case for $200 OBO in the area im in and theres three more 2220Bs on CL. Ones $300 and I think that's outrageous for a 2220B though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> speakerbox said:
> 
> 
> > Ya, we got one here in Rochester with wood case for $200:
> ...


 
  
 I don't think it is even worth $200 (even with the case).


----------



## harrinj

Me neither but people think they got something.


----------



## joehalo

Just picked up a 2220B a few weeks ago. Installed LEDs the other day. I like it, sounds nice.


----------



## af0h

Very Nice!
  
 While I've always been a 'Vintage Pioneer' kind of person, that Marantz looks great.


----------



## Magick Man

magick man said:


> Turns out I've noticed a few bad things w/ the NAD.
> 
> 1. There's a 2dB channel imbalance, R>L.
> 2. the left channel is noticeably brighter than the right.
> ...




It's back now, and booooy does it sound nice, like as good as a $1000+ dedicated headphone amp nice. My tech says the HP output impedance is 2.5 Ohms. So even with very low impedance cans, like the Audeze LCD-X, that's nearly a 10x damping factor. They sound pretty amazing with it too, zero background noise despite them being so sensitive.


----------



## harrinj

joehalo said:


> Just picked up a 2220B a few weeks ago. Installed LEDs the other day. I like it, sounds nice.


 


 Nice! I like mine too. It's just weird 2220B's are all popping up all the sudden.


----------



## ssrock64

af0h said:


> Very Nice!
> 
> While I've always been a 'Vintage Pioneer' kind of person, that Marantz looks great.


 

 I agree. While I prefer Pioneer pieces sonically, Marantz always had the edge in the looks department.


----------



## Oregonian

I like Marantz's look, like Sansui's G-series look.................but the Pioneer silver face look is so classy and clean to my eyes it makes me go into a trance.  Almost bought a SX-850 the other day just based on the looks!  I've never liked the blacked out look on any series of any manufacturer but Marantz pulls it off the best.  This is just gorgeous............and in person is mesmerizing. 
  
 As with headphones and women, to each their own...............


----------



## harrinj

Oregonian you should get that SX-950 in Eugene! $500 though...


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Oregonian you should get that SX-950 in Eugene! $500 though...


 

 Doug's got an SX-850 for less than $400.....................been looking at an SX-1080 for $600................like I need any of them but I WANT them................


----------



## LugBug1

joehalo said:


> Just picked up a 2220B a few weeks ago. Installed LEDs the other day. I like it, sounds nice.


 
 That looks sooo cool!! Congrats. 
  


magick man said:


> It's back now, and booooy does it sound nice, like as good as a $1000+ dedicated headphone amp nice. My tech says the HP output impedance is 2.5 Ohms. So even with very low impedance cans, like the Audeze LCD-X, that's nearly a 10x damping factor. They sound pretty amazing with it too, zero background noise despite them being so sensitive.


 
 2.5 Ohms 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm shocked at such low impedance on an old amp - I mean we are talking about 1979 here! 
  



 Pleased you're enjoying it buddy. 
  
  
 (I think we should just keep this one to ourselves... Don't want the price of these bad boys going up n' all. I'll not say anything outside this thread if you don't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## grizzlybeast

Does anyone know if the vintage realistic receivers are any good?


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Doug's got an SX-850 for less than $400.....................been looking at an SX-1080 for $600................like I need any of them but I WANT them................


 
 He's had that 850 forever hasn't he? or does he just keep putting that model out? I sure wish he still had that Kenwood KA-8300 that I saw last time I was there. Would've finally got the matching amp to my KT-8300. 

 Better get 'em before someone else does if you want them! They always stack up you know...


----------



## harrinj

grizzlybeast said:


> Does anyone know if the vintage realistic receivers are any good?


 
 I'm sure someone will say they are decent but no... nobody wanted Realistic when it was new!


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> Does anyone know if the vintage realistic receivers are any good?


 

 Very underrated and they ARE good.  I have one in my office at work that is a great headphone amp.  It's the STA-64B (very low power) and is immaculate, good looking and sounds great.


----------



## wotts

grizzlybeast said:


> Does anyone know if the vintage realistic receivers are any good?


 
  
  
 I passed up a STA-2000 and I kick myself every time I think about it. I think they guy was asking $200 and it was in mint condition.


----------



## harrinj

There's a shop here with several Realistic receiver's and several kenwood tuners. none of those Realistic's looked any good though.

 He had a HK 730 for $50 I've kicked myself for years for not getting.


----------



## af0h

oregonian said:


> Very underrated and they ARE good.  I have one in my office at work that is a great headphone amp.  It's the STA-64B (very low power) and is immaculate, good looking and sounds great.


 
 Yes - what Oregonian said!
  
 They might not have had the looks of the others, but performance-wise some of them were top notch.
 The thing to remember about Radio Shack products is that a lot of their stuff was made by the big companies, just rebadged.


----------



## Oregonian

Pic of my Realistic


----------



## PhoenixG

grizzlybeast said:


> Does anyone know if the vintage realistic receivers are any good?


 
 That depends, if you like low distortion, low prices, good build quality, modern sounding tonality, conservative power ratings, and unlimited bandwidth, then yes, they're very good.
 If you want a nice badge, then no.
 I have a STA-2000D and it's able to hold it's own pretty well with my better known TOTL hifi items. I also got my friend a nice 30 watt realistic as his first vintage receiver and he practically wept at the sound quality of the thing (it was not mindblowing, but he was upgrading from computer speakers haha).
 I think the average price I see for a realistic is $35, with a lot going for $15. In that price range, they are best value by far. Maybe the secret will get out, but I doubt they will ever outlive the stigma of being store-brand.


----------



## PhoenixG

That's not to say that realistic never made any duds. Kinda like sansui's many speaker lines, it can be hit or miss with realistic recievers.


----------



## grizzlybeast

well the one I was looking at was a STA-235 and is selling for 75 bucks.. I dont know where you guys are getting these 15dollar receivers from. If I found those I would have ten of em in one week literally. I look on craigslist everywhere. 
  
 That particular model I read about said that it was worth skipping over but the one you guys have and mentioned was good.


----------



## Silent One

af0h said:


> Yes - what Oregonian said!
> 
> They might not have had the looks of the others, but performance-wise some of them were top notch.
> The thing to remember about Radio Shack products is that a lot of their stuff was made by the big companies, just rebadged.


 
 +1
 RS was smart enough to go OEM...


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> I like Marantz's look, like Sansui's G-series look.................but the Pioneer silver face look is so classy and clean to my eyes it makes me go into a trance.  Almost bought a SX-850 the other day just based on the looks!  I've never liked the blacked out look on any series of any manufacturer but Marantz pulls it off the best.  This is just gorgeous............and in person is mesmerizing.
> 
> As with headphones and women, to each their own...............


 
  
  
  
 Yes, yes Pioneer Silver faced receivers do look classy. But I find the Sansui G-series faces to trance my glance as well.


----------



## af0h

Yup - it's hard to look at that G-series Sansui and not fall in love.


----------



## calipilot227

grizzlybeast said:


> Does anyone know if the vintage realistic receivers are any good?


 
  
 I've got the STA-2000D, and it's a monster. Rated at 75 wpc at 8 ohms, but it delivers closer to 90 RMS. It's a very lively, punchy amp, similar to the Pioneer SX-850 I would say. Pairs well with my KG 5.2s (and my Mach Ones when I still had them). Easily the best $100 I've spent on audio


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice find.  Congrats!


----------



## PhoenixG

silent one said:


> Yes, yes Pioneer Silver faced receivers do look classy. But I find the Sansui G-series faces to trance my glance as well.


 

 I'm reusing the photo, but man do I love that blue dial!


----------



## grizzlybeast

I like my NAd 701 it has 0.03 THD and is really smooth with a nice black background. But sometimes I want something more lively and extra punchy. Mine hits hard but I want something to compliment it even a bit more edgy/harsh.I guess I better look at pioneers or realistic.


----------



## LugBug1

grizzlybeast said:


> I like my NAd 701 it has 0.03 THD and is really smooth with a nice black background. But sometimes I want something more lively and extra punchy. Mine hits hard but I want something to compliment it even a bit more edgy/harsh.I guess I better look at pioneers or realistic.


 
 My SA 508 (SA 5800 US version) is a nice compliment to the NAD sound. A very balanced sound (typical Pioneer) but defo more lively than the typical NAD. Not as dark and it has a more brightly lit treble. They look stunning as well with all silver and blue display. You won't get the completely black backround however depending on phones used.  
  
 I would also look into early Technics if you want livelier as well.


----------



## harrinj

Wow I didn't think anyone would defend realistic. I know it must be better than the new crap we are stuck with today though. Well there is a place downtown Hermiston, OR that has 2 or 3 Realistic receivers but they all looked like crap. he had a big black face one that he wanted $125 for he also has lots of 70's tuners but none of them look very good. the best he had was a Kenwood KT-8300 and I bought it awhile ago. Strange with all those tuners, he has zero amps to go with them.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Well I am still on the hunt for a technics but I better slow my freakin role as i just bought a rotel rx60    today and dont want to waste my headphone money on em like I just did.


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> Well I am still on the hunt for a technics but I better slow my freakin role as i just bought a rotel rx60    today and dont want to waste my headphone money on em like I just did.




There's a badass Technics on CL too............SA-5460 (65 WPC) for $240. Sounds high........

And two very badass Pioneer integrated amps. SA-9500 and SA-801. Gorgeous and high power.

Where did you find the Rotel?


----------



## grizzlybeast

eBay: )

The guy at the store says he charges 95bucks for a tune up. When compared to me paying $47 for the unit it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I don't know what it takes to deox them etc but sheesh maybe that's normal I dunno.


----------



## Silent One

Anyone gotta Technics SA-1000? If so, what do you think?


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> Anyone gotta Technics SA-1000? If so, what do you think?


 
 No, but I sure would like to 
  
 Any high end 70's Technics are worth snapping up imo. But they are rare and with this comes a high price. The SA-1000 was $1700 in 1978


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> eBay: )
> 
> The guy at the store says he charges 95bucks for a tune up. When compared to me paying $47 for the unit it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I don't know what it takes to deox them etc but sheesh maybe that's normal I dunno.




Deoxit treatment is easy. I'm on an iPad so can't easily put the link up but on Audiokarma there's a thread on how to do it.


----------



## monoethylene

Sony STR V7


----------



## Fearless1

grizzlybeast said:


> i just bought a rotel rx60


 
 Don't even mention Rotel to me, My guy I buy from had an RX 1603, just cherry, for 400 bucks and I passed on it because my wife was with me(she gave me that why do you need another one look).  It was an absolute beast. Gave him a call last week and it was gone.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I see one on EBay right now......sigh.


----------



## grizzlybeast

@Oregonian I wonder what his tune up includes I will look into it! He has got to stay in business though. 
 Quote:


fearless1 said:


> Don't even mention Rotel to me, My guy I buy from had an RX 1603, just cherry, for 400 bucks and I passed on it because my wife was with me(she gave me that why do you need another one look).  It was an absolute beast. Gave him a call last week and it was gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yeah that thing looks like a freaking BEAST whoah. end game receiver status. I cant do those for a few reasons:
 - i just use the headphone out
 - live in an apartment
 - not tryin to go toooo big
  
 I do wonder how their hp outs would compare to some of these <1k audiophile amp rip offs though.(speaking emotionally rather than rationally)


----------



## PhoenixG

monoethylene said:


> Sony STR V7


 
 NICE FIND! I do love the classic sony's! I love my STR-6120 and I liked my 6065 a lot.


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> No, but I sure would like to
> 
> Any high end 70's Technics are worth snapping up imo. But they are rare and with this comes a high price. The SA-1000 was $1700 in 1978


 
 $1,500-$1,900 was pretty much in-line with monster receivers 1978-1979 from what I've read.


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> $1,500-$1,900 was pretty much in-line with monster receivers 1978-1979 from what I've read.




That Technics was 330 watts per channel! Talk about overkill and the horsepower wars of the late sixties re animating in the late seventies. Amazing........never saw a SA-1000 on eBay or talked about anywhere. Impressive.


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> That Technics was 330 watts per channel! Talk about overkill and the horsepower wars of the late sixties re animating in the late seventies. Amazing........never saw a SA-1000 on eBay or talked about anywhere. Impressive.


 
 During the 2000s I'd see the rare monster receivers pop up for sale all the time! Including the SA-1000 but you how the audio universe works - I wasn't into getting vintage gear at the time.


----------



## jptinc

cool download


----------



## nick n

Correct me if am wrong but most if not all Realistics are outsourced from the bigger companies, so do a bit of research on the particular model and you can sometimes find out who made them. Interesting stuff.


----------



## SilverEars

I have question.  I hear alot about people with phone with low sensitivity. Planar magnetics like HE-6, and etc.. comes to mind.
  
 My question is why do these people not pick up a SS amp to power it up?  Would these provide much needed juice?  Is there something about these receivers that are not for headphones?  They have a headphone jack.  Wouldn't it be more economical than paying 2k to get that 5W?


----------



## gikigill

silverears said:


> I have question.  I hear alot about people with phone with low sensitivity. Planar magnetics like HE-6, and etc.. comes to mind.
> 
> My question is why do these people not pick up a SS amp to power it up?  Would these provide much needed juice?  Is there something about these receivers that are not for headphones?  They have a headphone jack.  Wouldn't it be more economical than paying 2k to get that 5W?


 

 Visit the HE-6 thread and you might be in for a shock. My HE-6 has been plugged straight into the speaker taps of vintage
  
 Onkyo and Sherwood iron with great results.


----------



## Oregonian

silverears said:


> I have question.  I hear alot about people with phone with low sensitivity. Planar magnetics like HE-6, and etc.. comes to mind.
> 
> My question is why do these people not pick up a SS amp to power it up?  Would these provide much needed juice?  Is there something about these receivers that are not for headphones?  They have a headphone jack.  Wouldn't it be more economical than paying 2k to get that 5W?




Bingo. Yes it would be the way to go but for some reason vintage amps are still a niche and not everyone wants the size taken up by these. These are AMAZING for headphones.


----------



## Magick Man

silverears said:


> I have question.  I hear alot about people with phone with low sensitivity. Planar magnetics like HE-6, and etc.. comes to mind.
> 
> My question is why do these people not pick up a SS amp to power it up?  Would these provide much needed juice?  Is there something about these receivers that are not for headphones?  They have a headphone jack.  Wouldn't it be more economical than paying 2k to get that 5W?




They do that, a lot.


----------



## grizzlybeast

oregonian said:


> Bingo. Yes it would be the way to go but for some reason vintage amps are still a niche and not everyone wants the size taken up by these. These are AMAZING for headphones.


 
 They gotta think outside the box/desk they dont need to sit on the desk. I am searching hard for some little nighstand to suit my room that these things can go on right next to my desk.


----------



## PhoenixG

grizzlybeast said:


> They gotta think outside the box/desk they dont need to sit on the desk. I am searching hard for some little nighstand to suit my room that these things can go on right next to my desk.


 
 Well, fortunately you can get more than just old stereos on craigslist!


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> Well, fortunately you can get more than just old stereos on craigslist!


 





 One could save big dough on big sound shopping CL.


----------



## SilverEars

Any of your guys have the LCD-2 or HE-6.  Which amp do you guys like to use them with?


----------



## Silent One

HE-6 via speaker taps with the Sansui G-22000


----------



## grizzlybeast

^what about from the hp out?


----------



## harrinj

An Audeze is one of my life goals... 

 I have a question regarding lights. can you use incandescent bi-pin indicator lights if the rest are LEDs? I ask because each time I've changed the lights, the incandescent dial/stereo lights stop working when LED's are in unless I change those to LED's and always do (however those models didnt use bi-pins) the problem is that I can't find LED bi-pin indicator lights and no one else seems to know either. They don't work on my 4270 none of the indicators except the stereo indicator. The guy I bought it from replaced the main lights with white LED's before he put it up for sale but as I said only the stereo indicator lights up. AM/FM/PHONO/4/CD-4/TAPE1/TAPE2/DOLBY or the dial pointer do not light up.


----------



## Silent One

grizzlybeast said:


> ^what about from the hp out?


 
 Comes with 2 Headphone jacks with added resistance...still plenty of power.


----------



## af0h

The headphone Jack on my old Pioneer SX-450 actually sounds fairly good, but has a bit of hiss regardless of volume position or source input.
  
 While the old Piooneer works and gives me tonal adjustments, I much prefer the (near stock) sound of my lightly-modded Bravo V3 Hybrid Amp going through my Pioneer SE-A1000's.


----------



## grizzlybeast

silent one said:


> Comes with 2 Headphone jacks with added resistance...still plenty of power.


 
 thats what im talkin about


----------



## SilverEars

I'm wondering how the FR of these older SS amps are like.  As long as they are pretty flat and have much less than audible distortion headphones provide, and of course they will have plenty of juice, I don't see how a planar would not respond well to them.  Planars in my view are not very finicky of the source, but dependent on how much power you give it.  That's what I love about planars.
  
 I can see DAC designs getting better or time, but amps I don't think so.  Even the tube amps you see are so simple, and it doesn't seem to change all that much.


----------



## Silent One

grizzlybeast said:


> thats what im talkin about


 
 During my first week of ownership of the HE-6, I kept both it and the HD650 jacked-in. Of course, there was a decrease in gain, but with 220+ watts per channel this was never an issue. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 However, I quickly preferred listening with the HE-6, so...


----------



## OldSkool

silverears said:


> Any of your guys have the LCD-2 or HE-6.  Which amp do you guys like to use them with?


 

 I listen to my LCD2.2 outta the HP jack of my recapped Marantz 2226B, circa 1977.
  
 It sounds OUTSTANDING.


----------



## Skylab

The LCD-3 is phenomenal from the headphone out of the Pioneer SX-1980. So was the HE-6.


----------



## wotts

skylab said:


> The LCD-3 is phenomenal from the headphone out of the Pioneer SX-1980. *So was the HE-6.*




+1

In fact, I haven't heard any headphones sound bad out of the 1980.


----------



## SilverEars

Holy mother of.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Why are these so expensive? (I guess not as bad as some of the headphone amps, but for vintage..)  There must be alot of demand on these now.  What makes them so special?  Are they rare, is there something in the design makes them to much sought after?
  
 Edit:  Ok, 270 watts with only at .03% distortion I guess is pretty good.


----------



## ssrock64

silverears said:


> Holy mother of..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 More and more audio guys are starting to clue into the fact that vintage gear offers a better value than high-end modern amps (though that may not be true forever), and the "hipster" crowd has started to inflate the market looking for decorative items to run low-end vinyl rigs through.


----------



## Magick Man

ssrock64 said:


> More and more audio guys are starting to clue into the fact that vintage gear offers a better value than high-end modern amps (though that may not be true forever), and the "hipster" crowd has started to inflate the market looking for decorative items to run low-end vinyl rigs through.




The hipsters are mostly to blame, they buy them as decorative pieces and then they sit, gathering dust for the next 5 years. Then they dump them off at Goodwill when retro gear isn't cool anymore.


----------



## Skylab

Many of the higher end integrated amps and receivers, in addition to driving both headphones and speakers very well, have excellent phono stages (and in the case of receivers, FM tuners!).


----------



## analogsurviver

skylab said:


> Many of the higher end integrated amps and receivers, in addition to driving both headphones and speakers very well, have excellent phono stages (and in the case of receivers, FM tuners!).


 
 +1.


----------



## ssrock64

magick man said:


> The hipsters are mostly to blame, they buy them as decorative pieces and then they sit, gathering dust for the next 5 years. Then they dump them off at Goodwill when retro gear isn't cool anymore.


 

 In five years, then, it might all be a steal again!


----------



## icc900

Helpful...Thanks for sharing.


----------



## af0h

The Headphone Out on my mid 90's Pioneer Elite VSX-79 sounds great and with hardly any hiss at all using 32-ohm headphones (Pioneer SE-A1000's).  Note that an extreme volume setting is needed to actually hear said hiss. If I didn't already have a dedicated headphone amp, I could use this beast as one and not be sorry.
  
 Funny, the Pioneer receiver I sold to my Brother (that the Elite replaced), a VSX-D601 from the same years, had a lot of hiss in the headphone output and didn't sound anywhere near as good.  I'm not exactly sure what they did differently with the 'Elite' series, but it's a much warmer and better sound overall - especially with my old Realistic Mach Ones.


----------



## harrinj

Oh yay marantz LED bi-pins show up in an ebay search now! http://www.ebay.com/itm/FISHER-MARANTZ-KENWOOD-PIONEER-SANSUI-ONKYO-JVC-HARMON-KARDON-BI-PIN-LED-LAMP-/281308355902?pt=Lamps_US&var=&hash=item417f48dd3e

 Oh and more 2220B's are popping up. April must really be the month for 2220B's sheesh! I have a mint one that was new in box even had plastic on the inner plastic face, I don't want another one though haha


----------



## Silent One

I got your 7 year cycle right here! Some core hipsters will lose the ability to earn their present income, displaced by a new group of income earners making money off the next big thing and hipsters will downsize and grow tired of lugging that iron around and listings will pop up like jack-in-the-box!


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a Marantz 1150 amp for $120. He didn't have any of those realistic receivers anymore. 

Gonna clean this amp tonight.


----------



## Oregonian

Found a local guy (the lingerie/pole dancing training shop guy if you recall an earlier post) who let me know he had the following available. He owed me a receiver since the Yamaha R700 he sold me would not lock onto FM stations. First attempt was a Toshiba 775 which also had FM problems. He has a Toshiba 7150 that is mint for sale (Google it) but wants $750 for it and wouldn't give it to me as a replacement for the Yammie (can't blame me for trying)! Anyway, this Hitachi SR-804 has 50wpc and has a booster shot that makes this actually 100 WPC. Class G amplifier which is interesting stuff.


----------



## .Sup

joehalo said:


> Just picked up a 2220B a few weeks ago. Installed LEDs the other day. I like it, sounds nice.




Anymore impressions on the amp? Someone here is selling the non B version for 200€. Never owned a vintage receiver so not sure what to expect, would like to use it with the HE-500.


----------



## grizzlybeast

.


----------



## harrinj

.sup said:


> Anymore impressions on the amp? Someone here is selling the non B version for 200€. Never owned a vintage receiver so not sure what to expect, would like to use it with the HE-500.


 
 I have the HE-500 and the 2220B sounds good with it. It's one of my better ones with that headphone that and the 4270. The 2220 should sound great with the HE-500 too.


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> Found a local guy (the lingerie/pole dancing training shop guy if you recall an earlier post) who let me know he had the following available. He owed me a receiver since the Yamaha R700 he sold me would not lock onto FM stations. First attempt was a Toshiba 775 which also had FM problems. He has a Toshiba 7150 that is mint for sale (Google it) but wants $750 for it and wouldn't give it to me as a replacement for the Yammie (can't blame me for trying)! Anyway, this Hitachi SR-804 has 50wpc and has a booster shot that makes this actually 100 WPC. Class G amplifier which is interesting stuff.
> 
> ]




I've always been intrigued by the Hitachi receivers. Did you get it? Let us know what you think!


----------



## Magick Man

So I bought another NAD amp, this time a recapped 3225PE for $96 off ebay, I still think that's a screaming value. Anyway, this one's impressive too; huge soundstage, silent, with amazing dynamics, and perhaps ~1° pitched towards warm. IOW, practically identical to the 3020a. What an OUTRAGEOUS deal in amps these are, they easily eclipse dedicated HP amps priced <$1500, if not more. I'm giving this one to my mechanic for his budding HP collection (Audeze LCD-XC and Grado RS2) to replace his Schiit Magni (it's borrowed from me, so it's really mine).






Edit: 

*Public Safety Announcement!* Never, ever, turn Loudness ON while you're wearing headphones.  One, it sounds nasty (loud hiss), and two, because there's a "pop" that probably isn't good for your ears (you can't hear it through speakers, but you sure can w/ headphones).


.


----------



## .Sup

Magick Man very nice! Is it really that good? I am now very temptet.


----------



## grizzlybeast

magick man said:


> So I bought another NAD amp, this time a recapped 3225PE for $96 off ebay, I still think that's a screaming value. Anyway, this one's impressive too; huge soundstage, silent, with amazing dynamics, and perhaps ~1° pitched towards warm. IOW, practically identical to the 3020a. What an OUTRAGEOUS deal in amps these are, they easily eclipse dedicated HP amps priced <$1500, if not more. I'm giving this one to my mechanic for his budding HP collection (Audeze LCD-XC and Grado RS2) to replace his Schiit Magni (it's borrowed from me, so it's really mine).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder how mine stacks up to that and should I be jealous and hunt one down. I like the NAD sound. mine has a black background though the mids arent foward like i like its pretty balanced sounding but almost dark.


----------



## LugBug1

Another great buy Magick Man.
  
 @grizzlybeast In my experience all of the early NAD's have a very similar sound - slightly dark and smooth. Thats why I use the 'chocolatey' metaphor. The very early models are a little more authoritative from the mids down and warmer throughout the FR. The later (from mid 80's) are a little brighter up top but also seem a little softer sounding. The later models seem to have more depth in the mids (probably because of the brighter top) and are a great match with the HD800's imo. But these are very subtle differences from what is basically the same sound signature. If I can try and be objective here I'd say that the earlier models are the more high end sounding, this is simply based on the control of the bass freq's.    
  
 But they are not forward sounding at all. More refined (compared to dry/neutral sounding amps). I probably wouldn't pair Audeze or hd650 with one because you can have too much refinement.   
  
 For me they are the next best thing to a good tube amp (because I can't afford one ha). They don't sound stereotypically transistor based.


----------



## dogwan

oregonian said:


> Found a local guy (the lingerie/pole dancing training shop guy if you recall an earlier post) who let me know he had the following available. He owed me a receiver since the Yamaha R700 he sold me would not lock onto FM stations. First attempt was a Toshiba 775 which also had FM problems. He has a Toshiba 7150 that is mint for sale (Google it) but wants $750 for it and wouldn't give it to me as a replacement for the Yammie (can't blame me for trying)! Anyway, this Hitachi SR-804 has 50wpc and has a booster shot that makes this actually 100 WPC. Class G amplifier which is interesting stuff.


 
 Hey Oregonian!
  
 give it a shot. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.
  
 I have two Hitachi integrateds. A 1972 IA1000 which is very good sounding in a classic 70's way, and has an excellent phono stage with M/C capability. The other is a later generation HA7700 MOS-FET design that blows me  away sometimes for how clean it and its rich powerful bass. Also a good phono stage with MC and  adjustable loading for MM side (very unusual). I think Hitachi stuff is very good and very "under the radar".
  
 Is that pole dancer trainer located off of Barbur blvd?
  
 Greetings from the heart of PSU!


----------



## Oregonian

dogwan said:


> Hey Oregonian!
> 
> give it a shot. I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.
> 
> ...


 
 Rob/dogwan,

 I did get it, and it plays flawlessly on both FM and with a iPod/iDo DAC hooked up to it.  Very nice sound, plenty of thump and sounds great when turned up on Tom Sawyer on KGON this morning.............very nice condition with only a couple of smudges on it to take away from a 'mint condition' moniker.  I'm happy with it for sure.
  
 It is in Vancouver on Washington St.  The guy's wife runs it and he is unemployed so his contribution is "fixing" vintage amps/receivers and selling them for a little cash flow.  Unfortunately the first two had issues but third time was a charm. He's a great guy and was very sorry I had to keep coming in to swap them out. 
  
 Hoping we get a Portland meet going - I'll bring my little vintage Kenwood integrated amp along with some headphones.


----------



## Terja

Speaking of Hitachi amps ... here a pic of a Hitachi HA-5300 that I use for driving my HD650s. Very clear and detailed reproduction. I've tried the Senns with quite a few vintage amps/receivers and this is one of the best synergies I've found. Not very clear from the picture but speaker B system on this amp has a separate attenuator prior to the main volume control. It's the little knob next to the speaker selector. I've used it to drive the HD-650s in balanced mode because I could control the power output to create more volume headroom. It works quite well but I get the same good results out of the headphone out but without the risk of accidentally blowing a driver! Reverted to the headphone out for the 650s.
  
 On the bottom is a Luxman R-1050, my daily driver for the Hifiman HE-500 (via speaker posts of course). Man, does this receiver sound good. I guess the one word summary is 'refined', but without losing anything for detail, fullness, oomph. Do they still make them like this anymore?


----------



## grizzlybeast

^Can you show me where you got that divider inbetween the receivers. Is that what it is? or is that a stand?


----------



## Terja

You'll never guess what it is and where I got it from ... try ... I dare you, he he .... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





!
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Did you get it right???  It's a cutting board I picked up from Ikea. I simply added rubber feet to it to create a divider. It was just the right size for the amps. Yeah ... you know, improvisation!


----------



## grizzlybeast

ha ha good job and it looks great!


----------



## Oregonian

terja said:


> Speaking of Hitachi amps ... here a pic of a Hitachi HA-5300 that I use for driving my HD650s. Very clear and detailed reproduction. I've tried the Senns with quite a few vintage amps/receivers and this is one of the best synergies I've found. Not very clear from the picture but speaker B system on this amp has a separate attenuator prior to the main volume control. It's the little knob next to the speaker selector. I've used it to drive the HD-650s in balanced mode because I could control the power output to create more volume headroom. It works quite well but I get the same good results out of the headphone out but without the risk of accidentally blowing a driver! Reverted to the headphone out for the 650s.
> 
> On the bottom is a Luxman R-1050, my daily driver for the Hifiman HE-500 (via speaker posts of course). Man, does this receiver sound good. I guess the one word summary is 'refined', but without losing anything for detail, fullness, oomph. Do they still make them like this anymore?




Couple nice pieces!


----------



## musicman59

terja said:


> You'll never guess what it is and where I got it from ... try ... I dare you, he he ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  Here is my guess...
 Cutting board from IKEA.


----------



## Terja

Very funny Musicman ... I'm sure you took a peek didn't you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




!
  
 @ Oregonian -- Yeah they are holding me steady -- along with a Pioneer SA9500II I have, they are pretty solid pieces; but I really like what the Luxman does with music. Oh yeah, I run a custom tube buffer between it and my Dac and the Luxman matches up very nicely with it, but not so well with the other amps which didn't seem to need or want the additional voltage swing. How's your new Hitachi Class G receiver working out?


----------



## grizzlybeast

excuse my ignorance again but shouldnt I be looking at integrated amplifiers if I dong give two craps about a radio?
  
 They seem to be more power for cheaper slightly and less popular


----------



## LugBug1

grizzlybeast said:


> excuse my ignorance again but shouldnt I be looking at integrated amplifiers if I dong give two craps about a radio?
> 
> They seem to be more power for cheaper slightly and less popular


 
 Ignorance is bliss...


----------



## grizzlybeast

lugbug1 said:


> Ignorance is bliss...


 
 not when you just found out that 35w per channel into 8 ohms is barely 5 w into the he-6 50 ohms when the 5w is the recommended then it sucks. I need clean power with low distortion and when i first posted about how i couldnt imagine needing more power at 25 w per channel I now feel dumb. 
  
 Thats not bliss.


----------



## LugBug1

grizzlybeast said:


> not when you just found out that 35w per channel into 8 ohms is barely 5 w into the he-6 50 ohms when the 5w is the recommended then it sucks. I need clean power with low distortion and when i first posted about how i couldnt imagine needing more power at 25 w per channel I now feel dumb.
> 
> Thats not bliss.


 
 Yeah what I meant was, don't worry if its a receiver or integrated amp. Most of the very best gear in this thread are receivers. The SX-1980 for example is 270 watts per channel 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and is a kind of holy grail of vintage.
  
 The he-6 is a strange beast and does require more power than pretty much every other dynamic out there, but I do know our very own Skylab liked the sound of it from the hp out on his sx1980.
  
 Also, I would personally argue that there is a lot more than just watts required to bring out the best in a headphone. Problem is you have a very high maintenance hp! But 5 watts really should be enough.
  
 The problem with vintage gear compared to commercial amps is; theres only ever a few of us who own or owned a particular amp. So theres rarely any in-depth info on sound characteristics or majority agreements. Most of us on here rely on reputations of peeps who have collected many vintage amps. So a pitch of salt is required at all times. I bought many amps before I stumbled over the sound I was after. After buying many shiny muscular looking machines I accidently stumbled over an ugly, dirty old NAD hahaha. 
  
 As always its horses for courses my grizzly friend


----------



## Magick Man

.sup said:


> Magick Man very nice! Is it really that good? I am now very temptet.




Yep, they are that good. I've not found anything better at >5x the price. So much of modern head-fi amplification is overpriced junk, with notable exceptions, and vintage gear like this simply reinforces that position.



grizzlybeast said:


> excuse my ignorance again but shouldnt I be looking at integrated amplifiers if I dong give two craps about a radio?
> 
> They seem to be more power for cheaper slightly and less popular




IMO, the less crap you don't need on a piece of gear, the better. I like keeping things as simple as I can and don't want a radio, DSPs, or even tone controls on a HP amp, though a balance control can be nice if you have some old cans that are a little light on one side.


----------



## Skylab

Makes sense to buy an integrated if you don't want the radio and don't care about the sexy look of the vintage receivers 

The Pioneer SX-1980 does do a great job with the HE-6 but it can output 27 watts into 50 ohms from its headphone out! That's not typical


----------



## LugBug1

Heres a couple of my NAD's. 7125 and 7130 - both receivers. The radio never gets used - but they both have digital displays that illuminate! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyhow, the one below (7125) cost me £25 ($35) and is used more than any other amp in my collection. It just sounds 'right' to my ears. I've never heard a hp amp come near to this kind of refinement. Very natural and effortless sound. Ironically its the cheapest amp I've bought..


----------



## grizzlybeast

skylab said:


> Makes sense to buy an integrated if you don't want the radio and don't care about the sexy look of the vintage receivers
> 
> The Pioneer SX-1980 does do a great job with the HE-6 but it can output 27 watts into 50 ohms from its headphone out! That's not typical




That's a lot of power!

Some of the modern home power amps can do that for cheap at 300 bucks but I know it won't sound as good.

The rotel that will be here is 5.6 w at 50 ohms and the Hifiman f6 is 5 w at 50 ohms so I should be okay for now.

And nah I actually prefer the aesthetics of all the silver knobs over the lit meters.


----------



## musicman59

terja said:


> Very funny Musicman ... I'm sure you took a peek didn't you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nope. Just a wild gueSS based on how you made the question and because I have used think cutting boards from IKEA as amplifier platforms.


----------



## hojomojo96

Hey guys! I'm interested in getting into the vintage scene to replace my lepai, which is driving my Pioneer bs22's and soon a Logan Martin Dynamo 300. And, to pair with my LCD 2 as a bonus! How do I go about getting into this? From what I've seen, buying locally is the most effective option, but I wouldn't know where to go in Miami to find this stuff. Also, what should I be looking for in the 100-200 range?


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> excuse my ignorance again but shouldnt I be looking at integrated amplifiers if I dong give two craps about a radio?
> 
> They seem to be more power for cheaper slightly and less popular




Yep........tho receivers sure look sweet if you listen to FM as little as I do an integrated is a good option. Maybe a Spec 1 pamp and Spec 2 amp in combination? A little mundane looking with all that silver but the sound is lovely. 

Seriously, the integrateds are the value choice. Found two SA-9500's on Craigslist the past couple of days for less than $300 each and receivers not near the power levels of them costing almost double. I've got 5 of my 7 vintage pieces that are purely amps and the Hitachi I just got was a concession to my wife for the option of FM when she's doing work in the family room so a win win for me. I get another vintage piece to enjoy and she's ok with it.


----------



## Terja

musicman59 said:


> terja said:
> 
> 
> > Very funny Musicman ... I'm sure you took a peek didn't you
> ...


 
  
 Cool beans ... you deserve a ribbon!


----------



## PhoenixG

hojomojo96 said:


> Hey guys! I'm interested in getting into the vintage scene to replace my lepai, which is driving my Pioneer bs22's and soon a Logan Martin Dynamo 300. And, to pair with my LCD 2 as a bonus! How do I go about getting into this? From what I've seen, buying locally is the most effective option, but I wouldn't know where to go in Miami to find this stuff. Also, what should I be looking for in the 100-200 range?


 
 Welcome to the vintage thread!
 A lot of us get our units from craigslist, but your local thrift/flea market might have a few gems. We typically look for indicators of quality - weight, signs of maintenance, condition, brand, product lines, etc. Most of the receivers that qualify for this thread, with a number of fantastic exceptions, have the brushed aluminum face and knobs. We also buy from online auction sites. I have found a number of brands and series with a sound I think is darn near perfect at a price point I can't resist (send me a PM if you want to hear me go on ad nauseum about which ones I like best at all price points). That's the vintage bliss. 
 I looked on CL for you for miami and thought these two listings looked promising for you in your price range. (I was bored, don't get used to it haha). I'm not affiliated with any of them.
 http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/ele/4403131221.html
 http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/ele/4387563281.html
 I'd bring your headphones for an audition to see how you like each of them if you decide to investigate them further.
 Happy hunting!


----------



## Fearless1

oregonian said:


> Seriously, the integrateds are the value choice. Found two SA-9500's


 
 The SA series sounds really great with headphones. I just helped a friend put together a budget system, a used HE-500 ($450) and a 36 watt SA 710($80) from 1978 with the blue LED meters and I was shocked at how fantastic  the combo was. $530 dollars for an awesome setup, he is in heaven.


----------



## jgreen16

phoenixg said:


> Welcome to the vintage thread!
> A lot of us get our units from craigslist, but your local thrift/flea market might have a few gems. We typically look for indicators of quality - weight, signs of maintenance, condition, brand, product lines, etc. Most of the receivers that qualify for this thread, with a number of fantastic exceptions, have the brushed aluminum face and knobs. We also buy from online auction sites. I have found a number of brands and series with a sound I think is darn near perfect at a price point I can't resist (send me a PM if you want to hear me go on ad nauseum about which ones I like best at all price points). That's the vintage bliss.
> I looked on CL for you for miami and thought these two listings looked promising for you in your price range. (I was bored, don't get used to it haha). I'm not affiliated with any of them.
> http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/ele/4403131221.html
> ...




That first ad you linked to has some good stuff. I'd love to have all of that gear. I like how for the JBL L220's it just says (rare) with no price. Really great speakers though.


----------



## hojomojo96

phoenixg said:


> Welcome to the vintage thread!
> A lot of us get our units from craigslist, but your local thrift/flea market might have a few gems. We typically look for indicators of quality - weight, signs of maintenance, condition, brand, product lines, etc. Most of the receivers that qualify for this thread, with a number of fantastic exceptions, have the brushed aluminum face and knobs. We also buy from online auction sites. I have found a number of brands and series with a sound I think is darn near perfect at a price point I can't resist (send me a PM if you want to hear me go on ad nauseum about which ones I like best at all price points). That's the vintage bliss.
> I looked on CL for you for miami and thought these two listings looked promising for you in your price range. (I was bored, don't get used to it haha). I'm not affiliated with any of them.
> http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/ele/4403131221.html
> ...


 
 Thanks so much! I'll PM you so as to not clutter up the thread, but I hope to be joining all of you soon in the vintage hunt!


----------



## Skylab

fearless1 said:


> The SA series sounds really great with headphones. I just helped a friend put together a budget system, a used HE-500 ($450) and a 36 watt SA 710($80) from 1978 with the blue LED meters and I was shocked at how fantastic  the combo was. $530 dollars for an awesome setup, he is in heaven.




I still want an SA-9800 - if I ever find one locally, or one that's been restored already, I will pounce on that.


----------



## jasonb

hojomojo96 said:


> Hey guys! I'm interested in getting into the vintage scene to replace my lepai, which is driving my Pioneer bs22's and soon a Logan Martin Dynamo 300. And, to pair with my LCD 2 as a bonus! How do I go about getting into this? From what I've seen, buying locally is the most effective option, but I wouldn't know where to go in Miami to find this stuff. Also, what should I be looking for in the 100-200 range?




I use a Pioneer SX750 with my BS22's. The combo works great together.


----------



## Magick Man

Many moons ago I was offered an SA-9900 in working order for $200 and I turned it down. Not buying it is still one of my biggest regrets in this hobby.


----------



## terry parr

hojomojo96 said:


> From what I've seen, buying locally is the most effective option, but I wouldn't know where to go in Miami to find this stuff.


 
 do a search to see if any "old school, radio/tv repair shops" arn't relatively close to you.  you may be surprised at what might be sitting on the shelves at some of these places.  they're becoming harder to find, but when you do find one, that business owner/repair tech has a lot of experience and know-how.
  
 when i picked up a carver cm1090 integrated off of craigslist, i took it in for repair and service at a good shop that i was able to find.  he's about a 2-hour drive, one-way, from me.    that was this past winter, and the unit has performed flawlessly since then.
  
 i told him when i stopped in one day (before i even bought the carver, that:  "you guys are getting to be rare birds these days."  he nodded, and said:  "yeah.  we know.  that's one of the things we talk about whenever we get together.")
  
 so, if there are shops like this that arn't _too_ far away from you, then this may be a potential source worth checking out. (for both equipment finds, _and_ somebody who's
 experienced in the trade and knows a lot of this (now vintage) gear.
  
 i'm not familiar with florida, but i do know the age demographic skews older, (state-wide.  maybe not where you're at), but i would think coming across such a place (in the outlying areas from where you are) would be possible.
  
 just a thought.


----------



## hojomojo96

terry parr said:


> do a search to see if any "old school, radio/tv repair shops" arn't relatively close to you.  you may be surprised at what might be sitting on the shelves at some of these places.  they're becoming harder to find, but when you do find one, that business owner/repair tech has a lot of experience and know-how.
> 
> when i picked up a carver cm1090 integrated off of craigslist, i took it in for repair and service at a good shop that i was able to find.  he's about a 2-hour drive, one-way, from me.    that was this past winter, and the unit has performed flawlessly since then.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the advice! I kind of followed it - after doing some searching, I found a local who is heavily into vintage audio and contacted him. Unfortunately, he told me that because of the number of "flippers" in Miami, the odds of finding something at a good price are very, _very_ low. 
  
 On that note, it has occurred to me that I could potentially kill two birds with one stone if I do decide to go the vintage route. I was going to go with a Project Ember to replace the amp section of my Aune T1 which is currently driving my LCD 2's. However, I could run Aune T1 -> (insert vintage amp here) -> BS22's *AND* LCD 2's. This allows me to combine my budgets for the two, so I can now spend something more like $400-500. Does anyone have recommendations as to what I could get in this price range? It MUST have a headphone out, and tubes would be really nice, although not mandatory I suppose. 
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## jasonb

hojomojo96 said:


> Thanks for the advice! I kind of followed it - after doing some searching, I found a local who is heavily into vintage audio and contacted him. Unfortunately, he told me that because of the number of "flippers" in Miami, the odds of finding something at a good price are very, _very_ low.
> 
> On that note, it has occurred to me that I could potentially kill two birds with one stone if I do decide to go the vintage route. I was going to go with a Project Ember to replace the amp section of my Aune T1 which is currently driving my LCD 2's. However, I could run Aune T1 -> (insert vintage amp here) -> BS22's *AND* LCD 2's. This allows me to combine my budgets for the two, so I can now spend something more like $400-500. Does anyone have recommendations as to what I could get in this price range? It MUST have a headphone out, and tubes would be really nice, although not mandatory I suppose.
> 
> Thanks again.


 
 I'm not familiar with tube amps or the LCD2's but like I said earlier I use an SX750 for both my BS22's and for my Q701. The BS22's won't need much power, so anything between 50-100 watts per channel should do it. That leaves a lot of options. I use mine near field and 50 watts per channel is more than enough.


----------



## hojomojo96

jasonb said:


> I'm not familiar with tube amps or the LCD2's but like I said earlier I use an SX750 for both my BS22's and for my Q701. The BS22's won't need much power, so anything between 50-100 watts per channel should do it. That leaves a lot of options. I use mine near field and 50 watts per channel is more than enough.


 
 Yeah, I was using them with a Lepai tripath, which is only 20 wpc. The SX750 definitely looks like an option, its widely available on ebay for 250-300, and one on craigslist near me for $150. The only thing is that every time I look up something I find on ebay or craigslist, I find an AudioKarma thread where someone says they found it at a thrift shop for ~$30, or asking if they should spend $100 on something, and everyone saying no. Is this just something I'll have to invest time into to find decent deals? I'm fine with that - summer's on its way.


----------



## jasonb

hojomojo96 said:


> Yeah, I was using them with a Lepai tripath, which is only 20 wpc. The SX750 definitely looks like an option, its widely available on ebay for 250-300, and one on craigslist near me for $150. The only thing is that every time I look up something I find on ebay or craigslist, I find an AudioKarma thread where someone says they found it at a thrift shop for ~$30, or asking if they should spend $100 on something, and everyone saying no. Is this just something I'll have to invest time into to find decent deals? I'm fine with that - summer's on its way.


 
 Yea, I don't think I'd pay more than $200 for an SX750. I found mine at a local flea market for $40, so I got a smoking good deal. Something like this would be worth the money: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SA-9500-STEREO-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-QUALITY-VINTAGE-80-WPC-XCLNT-/161294546214?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258de77526


----------



## hojomojo96

jasonb said:


> Yea, I don't think I'd pay more than $200 for an SX750. I found mine at a local flea market for $40, so I got a smoking good deal. Something like this would be worth the money: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SA-9500-STEREO-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-QUALITY-VINTAGE-80-WPC-XCLNT-/161294546214?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item258de77526


 
 What in the world. I don't know what I'm doing, or if I'm just selectively blind to good deals. I JUST went through the ebay newly listed vintage amps and came up with squat. I've seen online that a good price for the SA9500 is around 450? Looks like a good price.


----------



## jasonb

hojomojo96 said:


> What in the world. I don't know what I'm doing, or if I'm just selectively blind to good deals. I JUST went through the ebay newly listed vintage amps and came up with squat. I've seen online that a good price for the SA9500 is around 450? Looks like a good price.


 
  
 I wouldn't expect to find any crazy good deals on Ebay. The prices on there are going to be somewhat high because lets face it, this vintage stuff is now in demand. The only way you're going to find a crazy good deal is to find local at a yard sale/estate sale/garage sale, flea market, or thrift store where the seller is unaware of how much the stuff is really worth. You may get lucky on craigslist too if the seller hasn't done their research and doesn't know what they really have. Or perhaps you may see something on ebay with a low "buy it now" price because again, the seller didn't do their research, but it's unlikely. The one in the link I provided looks to be a decent price if it really is in good condition. I like my SX750, but I'd definitely rather have that integrated amp instead.


----------



## af0h

Don't forget local Antique Malls - where dealers setup booths.  I've found a few good deals there on occasion.  But like everywhere else, many items are overpriced at the same time.


----------



## Skylab

Deleted


----------



## ssrock64

af0h said:


> Don't forget local Antique Malls - where dealers setup booths.  I've found a few good deals there on occasion.  But like everywhere else, many items are overpriced at the same time.


 

 Antique malls and flea markets tend to have some of the best gear in terms of desirability, but you wouldn't want to buy something from one unless you're willing to pay more post-purchase to restore it. Most dealer booths have receivers that are polished up and work at the time, but are quickly deteriorating inside since they're being sold on "antique" value instead of audio interest.


----------



## MIKELAP

Is the SA series a notch better than the SX series or not .Thanks


----------



## Magick Man

The local fleamarket has a vintage hi-fi stall but the guy wants 2-3x CMV for his stuff and dickering with him is a waste of time.


----------



## Skylab

mikelap said:


> Is the SA series a notch better than the SX series or not .Thanks




That's not really an answerable question. SX are receivers, over many many iterations. SA are integrated amps, also over many product generations. You have to list specific models of each in order to compare them.


----------



## Magick Man

I don't believe it's a case of an IA sounding "better" than a receiver, more like there's more crap that can break or go wrong on the latter.  If I don't need or want a feature than I'd rather it not even be there at all, if you get what I'm saying.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, that's a very tricky question. You  have the sx line with the 1010 being at the top. Then came the sx-xx50 line up followed by the sx-xx80 lineup. With the integrateds, you have the line with the sa-1000, sa-9100, sa-9900, sa-9500, sa-9500II, and sa-9800. Some of those flagships aren't as desirable and regarded as higher end receivers, and couple of those are even higher regarded. Then there's the power ratings. Even to two most desirable integrateds(9900,9800) pale in comparison to the 1250, 1280, and 1980 watt wise. Then  the sound signature ranges from very warm, to just the brighter side of neutral. There's enough of a variation to even say it's apples to oranges. But one thing they all will have in common is the famed pioneer build quality, and I've never heard a vintage pioneer of any kind that didn't sound good. Even their low end gear of that era have many fans.


----------



## MIKELAP

skylab said:


> That's not really an answerable question. SX are receivers, over many many iterations. SA are integrated amps, also over many product generations. You have to list specific models of each in order to compare them.


 
 Pioneer SA 8500- 2 compared to a SX 750, the SA 8500 is 60 WPC.


----------



## Skylab

Well the SA-8500 would be most directly equivalent to the SX-850, so in theory at least the 8500 would be the nicer of the two units, and make more sense if you require neither the radio tuner nor the fancy meters


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> Well the SA-8500 would be most directly equivalent to the SX-850, so in theory at least the 8500 would be the nicer of the two units, and make more sense if you require neither the radio tuner nor the fancy meters





Right, like I said in my previous post, the receivers as a whole are way more powerful. You could even make the case of the 8500 being compared to the 1050. The 8500 is next to totl. For example, many prefer the sa9800 to the sx1280. And the consensus is, they are at least equals sonically. But the sx1280 has about 65 more wpc. So don't compare them when it comes to wpc. The higher and pioneer integrated have goodies like dual power supplies, and dual trannies. While the higher end receivers have over sized toroids.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Random:
 After getting excited about my first receiver I went and got a couple more. The Akai sounding like crap and the Rotel sounding great but crackles when I turn the volume up and needs a worthy cleaning. Being anxious will get you in trouble. I will do some better research from now on.
  
  
 I would feel guilty for selling that akai for what i paid in shipping.


----------



## Terja

That's tough ... audition, audition when it's vintage, _eh_, whenever possible. This is where craiglist/local is your friend. Better luck next time buddy ..


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> Random:
> After getting excited about my first receiver I went and got a couple more. The Akai sounding like crap and the Rotel sounding great but crackles when I turn the volume up and needs a worthy cleaning. Being anxious will get you in trouble. I will do some better research from now on.
> 
> 
> I would feel guilty for selling that akai for what i paid in shipping.


 

 The Rotel "fix" is probably just doing the Deoxit treatment.  Let me know if you need the link to Audiokarma's "Deoxit for Dummies" thread.  Worth the 30 minutes bud.


----------



## LugBug1

grizzlybeast said:


> Random:
> After getting excited about my first receiver I went and got a couple more. The Akai sounding like crap and the Rotel sounding great but crackles when I turn the volume up and needs a worthy cleaning. Being anxious will get you in trouble. I will do some better research from now on.
> 
> 
> I would feel guilty for selling that akai for what i paid in shipping.


 
 I'm telling you, you struck gold early! Feel free to kick me in the NAD's if I'm wrong 




 
  
 Must say I wasn't impressed with the one Akai amp I owned. My experience with Rotel is much better though, defo worth getting some deoxit for that boy. 
  
 Next, a dose of Pioneer for you me thinks!


----------



## .Sup

Can I have that link Oregonian please?


----------



## Oregonian

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005 - this should be a sticky here on this thread.
  
 Stuff works extremely well and quick.  Turned a Kenwood that could barely adjust volume on to a noiseless piece in twenty minutes of spraying.  Must have for any vintage lover.


----------



## grizzlybeast

.sup said:


> Can I have that link Oregonian please?



Yeah me too

Woops must have hit send at the same time


----------



## grizzlybeast

lugbug1 said:


> I'm telling you, you struck gold early! Feel free to kick me in the NAD's if I'm wrong
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 lol 
  
 you know what I like my NAD but its not for every song and I need more power for the he-6 cause 25w per channel at 8 ohms doesn't translate into enough power at 50/60 ohms of the he-6


----------



## Oregonian

grizzlybeast said:


> lol
> 
> you know what I like my NAD but its not for every song and I need more power for the he-6 cause 25w per channel at 8 ohms doesn't translate into enough power at 50/60 ohms of the he-6


 

 Even out of speaker taps?


----------



## hojomojo96

Well, I'm back guys - and with news!
 I didn't think I'd be jumping in quite this quickly, but I'm happy to say that I'm the proud new owner of a brand new - to me - McIntosh Mac 1900. She seems to be in perfect working condition, and I got her for an absolute STEAL. (A special thanks should go out to PhoenixG for all the help) Although I don't have much to compare it to, she's driving my BS22's like a champ, and I've never heard them sound so good.

 She's an absolute beaut, although missing the wood sidings and with a couple little rust spots here and there. The volume is a little scratchy, but I've heard thats quite common and not a big deal.
 Upon looking at the internals, just about everything seems to be in order except an obscene amount of dust. My only worry is this:

 The swollen looking guys in the top left of the picture seem they might be trouble. Thoughts, and any advice?
 Anyways, thank you to everyone here for helping me take my baby steps through the door, and I think I'm going to be around for quite a while longer in this thread! The vintage bug has caught me.


----------



## PhoenixG

Beautiful unit and a fantastic find! That's a bit more than baby steps, it's more like a both feet in dive. The wood cases were an option from the distributor, but originals and reproductions can easily still be found online for about $100. I like the look of them personally, but they are by no means required.
 It's a bit unusual to me to see mylar/poly caps bulge, but maybe someone else has an opinion on what could be happening. Either way, be sure to give a couple squirts of deoxit in all the controls to get rid of the scratchiness. Also, blow air in there to get some of the dust away. I've found out the hard way that deoxit+heavy dust=arcing.
  
 Quote:


hojomojo96 said:


> Well, I'm back guys - and with news!
> I didn't think I'd be jumping in quite this quickly, but I'm happy to say that I'm the proud new owner of a brand new - to me - McIntosh Mac 1900. She seems to be in perfect working condition, and I got her for an absolute STEAL. (A special thanks should go out to PhoenixG for all the help) Although I don't have much to compare it to, she's driving my BS22's like a champ, and I've never heard them sound so good.
> 
> She's an absolute beaut, although missing the wood sidings and with a couple little rust spots here and there. The volume is a little scratchy, but I've heard thats quite common and not a big deal.
> ...


----------



## grizzlybeast

oregonian said:


> Even out of speaker taps?


 
 As far as I have recently found out yes but i could be wrong about all of this.
  
 Because of the he-6 50-60 ohm resistance then the *"25w at 8 ohms"* means less than the recommended *"5w per channel at 50-60 ohms"* for the he-6.
  
 I figured that my Rotel which is *"35w per channel at 8ohms"* translates to roughly *"5.6w per channel into 50 ohms"* and i should be good there because the ef6 amp which supposedly exploits its potential is 5w per channel into 50 ohms. 
  
 I will see when it gets here and the one I got already has the adapter so I should be good to go.
  
 I want to get this thing despite its heating issues:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261018872460


----------



## moodyrn

hojomojo96 said:


> Well, I'm back guys - and with news!
> I didn't think I'd be jumping in quite this quickly, but I'm happy to say that I'm the proud new owner of a brand new - to me - McIntosh Mac 1900. She seems to be in perfect working condition, and I got her for an absolute STEAL. (A special thanks should go out to PhoenixG for all the help) Although I don't have much to compare it to, she's driving my BS22's like a champ, and I've never heard them sound so good.
> 
> She's an absolute beaut, although missing the wood sidings and with a couple little rust spots here and there. The volume is a little scratchy, but I've heard thats quite common and not a big deal.
> ...


 
 Welcome to the club!! And a big congrats. That's a great find. As for the caps, I've not seen film caps do that before. I personally would look at getting those replaced. Those caps are suppose to have tight tolerances(which is why they went with film instead of electrolytics in those spots). So it's important to make sure you have good ones there.


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is also possible that it is not swollen.  Sometimes they just look that way.  Any leakage anywhere?


----------



## af0h

speakerbox said:


> It is also possible that it is not swollen.  Sometimes they just look that way.  Any leakage anywhere?


 

 +1 - I've seen that before also with larger capacity film caps.  No leakage, tested fine with meter, I think they just try to stuff more into a package that size.
  
 Definitely look for signs of cracking or leakage.  If none, I would'nt lose any sleep over it. They can always be replaced down the road if you prefer.


----------



## Pudu

Quick question. 


The right channel on my 980 has for a while been getting more staticy and quieter. Eventually it dropped out altogether. But the headphone out sounds as good as ever. Today I pulled it apart and applied deoxit to the balance and volume pots. Since I had it open I checked and adjusted the DC offset, which was quite _off_ on that channel.

Now she sounds great once again. But the question I have is what caused the channel drop out? Can bad offset do that? Was a combination of both things that lead to static and then drop out?




Alright, that was three questions.


----------



## PhoenixG

pudu said:


> Quick question.
> 
> 
> The right channel on my 980 has for a while been getting more staticy and quieter. Eventually it dropped out altogether. But the headphone out sounds as good as ever. Today I pulled it apart and applied deoxit to the balance and volume pots. Since I had it open I checked and adjusted the DC offset, which was quite _off_ on that channel.
> ...


 
 I'm not sure about the static - that was probably mostly the dirt, but a way off DC offset could cause the protection circuit to trip once it gets hot.


----------



## hojomojo96

There's no a cracking on the cap that I can see - as for leakage, I don't see anything but I'm not sure if I'm looking for the right things. I did check, and the cap doesn't get hot while playing. 
Just out of curiosity, how hot should these receivers be running on average? I don't think I'm even close to a dangerously hot temperature, some parts are warm to the touch, but they don't burn. Still figured I should check, though.


----------



## af0h

hojomojo96 said:


> There's no a cracking on the cap that I can see - as for leakage, I don't see anything but I'm not sure if I'm looking for the right things. I did check, and the cap doesn't get hot while playing.
> Just out of curiosity, how hot should these receivers be running on average? I don't think I'm even close to a dangerously hot temperature, some parts are warm to the touch, but they don't burn. Still figured I should check, though.


 

 If there was any leakage, it would show up on the board below the cap - or at least running down the legs of the cap.  Most of the film caps I've seen that did bust either cracked also or bulged out on one side or the other, but I never did see one blow up like a balloon.
  
 Temperature wise - these older receivers do run warm, hense the large heatsinks on the output transformers.  As long as it doesn't get too hot (so hot you can't hold your finger on it for more than a couple of seconds) then it sounds like everything's running fine.  If you want to get creative and perform a little diy, a small Brushless DC cooling fan can be installed for a bit of extra cooling, but it sounds like you're running 100% normal to me.  Of course you'd have to tap into a low-voltage power source to power the fan - either from inside the receiver itself or you could go with an external power supply if absolutely necessary.   I did this with an old Sansui years ago and tapped a 12-volt line feeding a 7805 regulator to power the fan.  The fan running at such a low speed made no noise at all, but was still effective at moving some air across the heatsinks.


----------



## hojomojo96

af0h said:


> If there was any leakage, it would show up on the board below the cap - or at least running down the legs of the cap.  Most of the film caps I've seen that did bust either cracked also or bulged out on one side or the other, but I never did see one blow up like a balloon.
> 
> Temperature wise - these older receivers do run warm, hense the large heatsinks on the output transformers.  As long as it doesn't get too hot (so hot you can't hold your finger on it for more than a couple of seconds) then it sounds like everything's running fine.  If you want to get creative and perform a little diy, a small Brushless DC cooling fan can be installed for a bit of extra cooling, but it sounds like you're running 100% normal to me.  Of course you'd have to tap into a low-voltage power source to power the fan - either from inside the receiver itself or you could go with an external power supply if absolutely necessary.   I did this with an old Sansui years ago and tapped a 12-volt line feeding a 7805 regulator to power the fan.  The fan running at such a low speed made no noise at all, but was still effective at moving some air across the heatsinks.


 
 Mmkay, thats what I was looking for - I don't see any. I will at some point attempt to recap this myself, though, just to be safe and to have it running at its peak. I'm a high school kid though, and I basically learn by doing, but I'd rather not break this. Is there anywhere I can find a really simple guide on recapping in general? Obviously not model specific. 
  
 And good to know. I'm fine with the temperature that its running at, so I guess I'll be building it a vented wooden case soon. I can't justify buying one online when I could build the same. I don't think I'll be experimenting with fans quite yet, though.


----------



## af0h

hojomojo96 said:


> Is there anywhere I can find a really simple guide on recapping in general? Obviously not model specific.


 
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?s=59fcc8ffe96e700f49abf7c29ca2b107&t=122359#post1298370
  
 The above link is an old AK thread (with links at the bottom) that will describe the process and list the materials you'll need.
 It's not much, but it is something to go by on short notice.


----------



## newfer

I have an Onkyo A-45 that I bought new in the early 1980's. It's still with me to this day. I use it in my home project studio to power my Tannoy NFM 8 monitors. This thing is a work horse. Aside from a couple back lights not working on the input selector switches it's been rock solid reliable. I recently gave the volume control a cleaning with some basic electronics spray cleaner because it was getting a bit scratchy; clean as a whistle now. You can't find audio equipment made like this anymore, at least not for the price I paid for it. No China built on this, Japan all the way! I'm hoping to get many more years out of it. A classic piece!


----------



## Oregonian

newfer said:


> I have an Onkyo A-45 that I bought new in the early 1980's. It's still with me to this day. I use it in my home project studio to power my Tannoy NFM 8 monitors. This thing is a work horse. Aside from a couple back lights not working on the input selector switches it's been rock solid reliable. I recently gave the volume control a cleaning with some basic electronics spray cleaner because it was getting a bit scratchy; clean as a whistle now. You can't find audio equipment made like this anymore, at least not for the price I paid for it. No China built on this, Japan all the way! I'm hoping to get many more years out of it. A classic piece!


 

 Welcome to the best thread on Head Fi!  When you get enough posts built up, please post a pic of the Onkyo.


----------



## Pudu

phoenixg said:


> I'm not sure about the static - that was probably mostly the dirt, but a way off DC offset could cause the protection circuit to trip once it gets hot.




If the protection circuit cuts in doesn't that shut off everything - to both channels?


----------



## PhoenixG

pudu said:


> If the protection circuit cuts in doesn't that shut off everything - to both channels?


 
 I guess they usually do. Good point. Maybe just start with deoxit and see what else you find in there.


----------



## jnorris

pudu said:


> Quick question.
> 
> 
> The right channel on my 980 has for a while been getting more staticy and quieter. Eventually it dropped out altogether. But the headphone out sounds as good as ever. Today I pulled it apart and applied deoxit to the balance and volume pots. Since I had it open I checked and adjusted the DC offset, which was quite _off_ on that channel.
> ...





The headphone output on most older amps was just the speaker output padded down with resistors. If your headphone out is ok but the speaker is cutting out I would look at poor connection/oxidation at the speaker terminal itself. If the volume and balance pots were malfunctioning you'd hear it both on headphones and speakers.


----------



## Pudu

Thanks for the replies PhoenixG and jnorris, much appreciated.

That was how I understood the HO to work on this too. Strange. As I said the only thing I did was clean the pots (and that volume pot is a beeotch to get at) and do the offset. And now it sounds as good as new. I did test it before the maintenance, and the right channel of both A and B outputs was affected.


----------



## Skylab

Quite true...and also if your amp has speaker selector switches (which most vintage amps do), those should be thoroughly cleaned/deoxit treated.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Quite true...and also if your amp has speaker selector switches (which most vintage amps do), those should be thoroughly cleaned/deoxit treated.


 
  
 +1.  The speaker selector switch is where I would look.


----------



## Pudu

Thanks guys. Will look there directly if the issue arises again. 

I'm still amazed at how this old thing can still make me stop and be seriously impressed at how good it sounds. I'm quite sure I'd get rid of my other, new amps before saying goodbye to this one.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Both the build quality and sound quality of these old units is seriously addicting.


----------



## LugBug1

Has anyone heard a Yamaha A-500? (1982) Just bought one quite cheap. It will be my first taste of Yamaha.
  
 Here it is from the sales pic

  
 20db mute switch so I'm hoping it may make a good hp amp.


----------



## Oregonian

Congrats LugBug.......

I had an R-700 receiver and liked the Yamaha sound and the variable loudness was sweet.

I'm curious tho what the mute switch comment means in relation to its performance as a headphone amp.


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> I'm curious tho what the mute switch comment means in relation to its performance as a headphone amp.


 
 I think it means that it has enough power to need a mute switch, so there may be enough juice from the HP out to power damn near anything.


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> Congrats LugBug.......
> 
> I had an R-700 receiver and liked the Yamaha sound and the variable loudness was sweet.
> 
> I'm curious tho what the mute switch comment means in relation to its performance as a headphone amp.


 
  
 From my understanding, when changing the volume un-muted, a very slight movement can greatly affect the volume from the headphones. With the mute button depressed (try the Xanax), you can turn the volume knob more and possibly get a finer adjustment on the volume. Like going from a 3:1 to 16:1 steering ratio in a car.


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Congrats LugBug.......
> 
> I had an R-700 receiver and liked the Yamaha sound and the variable loudness was sweet.
> 
> I'm curious tho what the mute switch comment means in relation to its performance as a headphone amp.


 
 Thanks bud  Should be here early next week.
  
 Basically it gives you more control of the volume and is the same as a gain switch that you find on some dedicated amps. 
 My NAD's have this and it makes a big difference for me. I can hardly get the volume off the ground with the HD800 and my vintage amps that don't have the 20db mute, and I end up having to lower my pc volume which I don't like doing.


----------



## .Sup

roadcykler said:


> From my understanding, when changing the volume un-muted, a very slight movement can greatly affect the volume from the headphones. With the mute button depressed (try the Xanax), you can turn the volume knob more and possibly get a finer adjustment on the volume. Like going from a 3:1 to 16:1 steering ratio in a car.


Sounds like gain. High gain disabled (mute switch off) and you can make a finer adjustment with the volume knob. But I could be wrong, just sounds similar.


----------



## dogwan

hojomojo96 said:


> Mmkay, thats what I was looking for - I don't see any. I will at some point attempt to recap this myself, though, just to be safe and to have it running at its peak. I'm a high school kid though, and I basically learn by doing, but I'd rather not break this. Is there anywhere I can find a really simple guide on recapping in general? Obviously not model specific.
> 
> And good to know. I'm fine with the temperature that its running at, so I guess I'll be building it a vented wooden case soon. I can't justify buying one online when I could build the same. I don't think I'll be experimenting with fans quite yet, though.


 
 Those round orange capacitors are ceramic disc types and very rarely, I mean really, hardly ever go bad. Larger value ones can actually look quite fat and from the pictures those look like they are just larger value, but fine. If they did go bad I don't think there is anything inside to "leak" out like an electrolytic capacitor. With ceramics it's usually best to leave alone unless you are sure it is bad (by actually measuring)
  
 Also, the proximity of those caps to the tuning slugs (square cans with hole in top) for the "tuner" portion of your receiver would lead me to believe they are part of that circuit. AND THUS, you should not replace those. SInce you admitted you are a novice I would advise you stay away from the tuner section when re-capping. Tuners are notoriously sensitive to parts values and replacing one cap could throw everything off and you would have to take it somewhere for alignment.
  
 Just my 2cents of advice to a newb anxious to make a new toy sound even better...... I've been there.


----------



## analogsurviver

I know this is THE thread for the all-in-one-box-vintage loving guys, but for LESS than you are obviously prepared to splash on a receiver, here a really good deal on an incomparably more serious piece of equipment :
  
 http://www.ebay.de/itm/NIKKO-ALPA-220-AMP-BETA-20-PREAMP-EQ-20-GAMMA-20-TUNER-RACK-MOUNT-VINTAGE-/271480927614?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f3586357e
  
 That about good deal holds true even if shipped to Europe & after paying ransome to customs ... - provided the European user does have a step down transformer from 240 to 120 V AC of approprite power rating; no idea if Nikko did build units with switchable AC mains.
  
 One of the lusted for back in the day ( but generally not so well known )  lines; NEVER heard anything bad about them ...


----------



## Greystoke

analogsurviver said:


> I know this is THE thread for the all-in-one-box-vintage loving guys, but for LESS than you are obviously prepared to splash on a receiver, here a really good deal on an incomparably more serious piece of equipment :
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/NIKKO-ALPA-220-AMP-BETA-20-PREAMP-EQ-20-GAMMA-20-TUNER-RACK-MOUNT-VINTAGE-/271480927614?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3f3586357e
> 
> ...


 

 That's a pretty good price for a complete set of components!  I love the look of that amp; level meters plus a headphone out?  Nice!
  
 I was following an auction for a Harman-Kardon 730 Twin-Power, that single unit went for more than this entire stack.


----------



## LugBug1

^^Agreed, lovely looking stack. Seems like a good price too.


----------



## JustinBieber

Giving a shot out to the JVC JA-S55, it does very well driving headphones. I've used it with an LCD-3, HE-500, HE-560, HE-400, and HD600 and it drove them beautifully. About on par with the Schiit Lyr that I compared it to directly. IMO, both amps are a bit warm and have lots of power output. It's outclassed by the Burson Soloist though, the JVC has a smaller soundstage and lacks the treble detail/agression compared to it but differences were actually quite minor. 
  
 A JA-S77 is going for $200 on eBay right now.


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> ^^Agreed, lovely looking stack. Seems like a good price too.


 
 I find it REALLY hard to understand it is still available - with only one offer. Thought it would be long gone by now...
  
 Guys, do Google a bit those components - EACH is worth the BIN price for the entitre stack ...
 - they really do not make them that way anymore - or ever,  for that matter.


----------



## joehalo

I've gotten some great craigslist deals lately! Mint pioneer sx-850 $150, mint sansui g-5500 $100, mint pioneer cs-700g $75 and today an emotiva xda-1 $150. There is a Marantz 2225 that still has the plastic protective film on the front near me! Trying to resist buying it!


----------



## Xenophon

Just purchased a Pioneer SX-1980 on ebay in Europe.  Important as that's where it's going to be used and transport costs are killer on this thing + what sours the deal on most US-purchased equipment are the import duties and the VAT.  I'll have to get myself a voltage step-down transformer though as the unit works on 120 VAC, the original owner who brought it to Europe was in the US military.  
  
 To be honest it's a big gamble.  Totally out of my depth here and I'm relying rather heavily on the opinions of Skylab and a couple of others who are very happy with it driving the HE-6 via the headphone out.  And despite the bulk I really dig the looks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but don't look forward to hauling it up the stairs in my house.  Just one question:  I'll be feeding it via RCA via AUX I suppose, the signal will come from my V800 DAC which has switches allowing me to set the gain.  Can I leave it at standard redbook voltage output or do I dial in -3dB (or +3,6,9, or 12 dB)?


----------



## Rossliew

xenophon said:


> Just purchased a Pioneer SX-1980 on ebay in Europe.  Important as that's where it's going to be used and transport costs are killer on this thing + what sours the deal on most US-purchased equipment are the import duties and the VAT.  I'll have to get myself a voltage step-down transformer though as the unit works on 120 VAC, the original owner who brought it to Europe was in the US military.
> 
> To be honest it's a big gamble.  Totally out of my depth here and I'm relying rather heavily on the opinions of Skylab and a couple of others who are very happy with it driving the HE-6 via the headphone out.


 
 It's superb with the HE-6. I once had the SX-1280 driving the HE-6 out of the headphone jack and boy, does it give music through the 6 a very muscular body ! You will not regret it.


----------



## Skylab

xenophon said:


> Just purchased a Pioneer SX-1980 on ebay in Europe.  Important as that's where it's going to be used and transport costs are killer on this thing + what sours the deal on most US-purchased equipment are the import duties and the VAT.  I'll have to get myself a voltage step-down transformer though as the unit works on 120 VAC, the original owner who brought it to Europe was in the US military.
> 
> To be honest it's a big gamble.  Totally out of my depth here and I'm relying rather heavily on the opinions of Skylab and a couple of others who are very happy with it driving the HE-6 via the headphone out.  And despite the bulk I really dig the looks   but don't look forward to hauling it up the stairs in my house.  Just one question:  I'll be feeding it via RCA via AUX I suppose, the signal will come from my V800 DAC which has switches allowing me to set the gain.  Can I leave it at standard redbook voltage output or do I dial in -3dB (or +3,6,9, or 12 dB)?




Standard red book is fine, but actually I would probably use -3dB as you will have more play on the 1980's volume control.


----------



## .Sup

I envy Americans of their Craiglist and great cheap deals.  In Europe everything is so expensive. Gratz on the purchase Xeno! How much did you pay it for it?


----------



## Xenophon

About 970 GBP (1200 EUR, 1600 USD) + 60 EUR delivery in Europe and of course no bloody customs duty.  BTW:  if you think customs duty and VAT are bad:  Ebay is increasingly proposing a system where goods get delivered DDP and you pay the duty taxes and fees on checkout, I've done the math and those guys take a VERY healthy cut indeed.  Problem is you've no choice on auctions where it is proposed.  .
  
 It's this one:
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pioneer-SX-1980-/221432130930?nma=true&si=RAIpOQRNpgo3ChkDhWg3Uy5Ia7Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 Actually no idea about the price, I think it's reasonable provided nothing blows when I first plug it in (note to self:  don't forget the converter).  There's a yoputube video where you can watch the actual unit hooked up to speakers but be warned:  terrible music.  Anyway, I budgeted an additional 400 EUR or so to change capacitors if needed.  But it's certainly true that this kind of stuff is as a general rule a whole lot cheaper across the pond.


----------



## .Sup

Wow big price but cosmetic condition is excellent! Cant wait for your impressions! Hope it works well!


----------



## MIKELAP

xenophon said:


> About 970 GBP (1200 EUR, 1600 USD) + 60 EUR delivery in Europe and of course no bloody customs duty.  BTW:  if you think customs duty and VAT are bad:  Ebay is increasingly proposing a system where goods get delivered DDP and you pay the duty taxes and fees on checkout, I've done the math and those guys take a VERY healthy cut indeed.  Problem is you've no choice on auctions where it is proposed.  .
> 
> It's this one:
> 
> ...


 
 I'ive noticed this also when i buy stuff in the U.S. i never pay import fees to Canada and with the Global Shipping Program you pay a so called  import fee most of the time what a Scam !!!  i dont buy from the sellers that use that program.


----------



## Skylab

$1,600 us for a SX-1980 in good cosmetic and electrical condition is actually a very good price based on what's typical.


----------



## Pudu

You can keep the gain on default and simply use the knob on the front of the V800 to adjust signal strength to suit your receiver as needed.

That's what I do with my 980 and it gives far better control than the volume pot on the Pioneer itself.


----------



## Xenophon

You're right about the volume knob of course, reason why I prefer to coarsely set the pre-gain via the DIP-switches is that using the volume knob to attenuate has an influence on the data word-length and hence accuracy (DAC-volume should always be kept as close to max as possible) whereas using the switches circumvents this.
  
 But all the above is theory, I very much doubt that it'll make an audible difference.  Looking forward to trying it out.  I hesitated until the last moment before pulling the trigger, the strongest contender was something totally different:  a vintage Fisher tube amplifier.  I'm cursed because I like both a good ss amplifier and good, musical but not too syrupy (=well-built) tubes.  The Fisher was cheaper not to mention a lot more subtle in appearance but as far as I could see it required major restoration work.


----------



## Pudu

No man, you made the right choice. The Pioneer is a work of art - a big, huge, hulking work of shiny, knobby art. 

If it sounds anything like its little, little brother, it should be plenty musical without being overly dark or warm. I love my tubes, but the Pioneer might be my most enjoyably fun sounding amp.

By the way, I think Fried made an argument that controlling the volume in the digital domain has as many advantages as disadvantages vs the analog controls.


----------



## LugBug1

Got the Yamaha A-500 yesterday. Sounded great for 5 mins and then a loud crackling started on the left channel.. I thoroughly cleaned everywhere with deoxit but the same thing still happens- 5 mins of clear sound and then it starts again. None of the controls affect it, even when the volume is down its still there! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Quite annoying because it sounds really nice. Any thoughts?


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> Got the Yamaha A-500 yesterday. Sounded great for 5 mins and then a loud crackling started on the left channel.. I thoroughly cleaned everywhere with deoxit but the same thing still happens- 5 mins of clear sound and then it starts again. None of the controls affect it, even when the volume is down its still there!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, Deoxit is not THE cure for all.  What you describe is a component on the brink of its lifespan; can be capacitor (if you are lucky), can be an unobtainium semiconductor (if you ran out of luck). Can also be a bad solder joint - whatever it is, it is obviously termperature dependant, it works cold and after heated to (ab?)normal operating temperature, it causes the described trouble. Service guys use cooling sprays to isolate the culprit , available in electronic parts stores.
 Just do not try fixing it with your most valuable speakers or phones attached - if it decides to go kaboom and take as much as possible with it ... Preferably, hook it to an oscilloscope and safely observe what is going on.
  
 ALWAYS worth checking out the *SERVICE *manual for the likely cause(s):
  
 http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/yamaha/a-500.shtml


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> Well, Deoxit is not THE cure for all.  What you describe is a component on the brink of its lifespan; can be capacitor (if you are lucky), can be an unobtainium semiconductor (if you ran out of luck). Can also be a bad solder joint - whatever it is, it is obviously termperature dependant, it works cold and after heated to (ab?)normal operating temperature, it causes the described trouble. Service guys use cooling sprays to isolate the culprit , available in electronic parts stores.
> Just do not try fixing it with your most valuable speakers or phones attached - if it decides to go kaboom and take as much as possible with it ... Preferably, hook it to an oscilloscope and safely observe what is going on.
> 
> ALWAYS worth checking out the *SERVICE *manual for the likely cause(s):
> ...


 
 Thanks bud, yeah I've safely stored it away in the cupboard of spare parts. Not going to risk doing anything more with it, as it was cheap and cheerful anyways. Least it gave me a small taste of Yamaha. And I enjoyed all 5 mins of it!


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> Thanks bud, yeah I've safely stored it away in the cupboard of spare parts. Not going to risk doing anything more with it, as it was cheap and cheerful anyways. Least it gave me a small taste of Yamaha. And I enjoyed all 5 mins of it!


 
 I hope to see the day I can say i've enjoyewd all 5 _*decades*_ of Transcriptors Vestigal tonearm - still 1.3 decade to go...


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> I hope to see the day I can say i've enjoyewd all 5 _*decades*_ of Transcriptors Vestigal tonearm - still 1.3 decade to go...


----------



## hojomojo96

Just stopping by to verify something - I've heard that the McIntosh 1900 has a weak power switch, so I plugged it into a switch at the outlet. Is this the right idea? 
Sidenote, hopefully I'll soon be able to build my case for it.

EDIT: HELP. This just started, but the receiver has just started shutting off mid play. It wasn't on too long and doesnt feel all that hot. Where do I start?


----------



## Skylab

That's not really a good sign...the Mac 1900 doesn't have pots for adjusting DC Offset or bias...so I'm not sure what to recommend. Probably best bring it to a qualified tech.


----------



## PhoenixG

hojomojo96 said:


> Just stopping by to verify something - I've heard that the McIntosh 1900 has a weak power switch, so I plugged it into a switch at the outlet. Is this the right idea?
> Sidenote, hopefully I'll soon be able to build my case for it.
> 
> EDIT: HELP. This just started, but the receiver has just started shutting off mid play. It wasn't on too long and doesnt feel all that hot. Where do I start?


 
 Can you give any more details on how you're using it when it goes silent? Do the lights stay on or go off? Does the unit come back up if you turn it off and on again? If you're on radio, is the muting circuit on? Can you touch your output transistors to see if they are really hot? Do all inputs go silent, or just whatever you're listening to? Have you cleaned the unit with deoxit and checked/ replaced the fuses?
  
 Also, unrelated note, I'm firing up the minivanmobile tomorrow for a nice unit. Skylab and Moody, I don't remember which one of you has it's little brother, but I'll be joining your tube club (hopefully).


----------



## hojomojo96

phoenixg said:


> Can you give any more details on how you're using it when it goes silent? Do the lights stay on or go off? Does the unit come back up if you turn it off and on again? If you're on radio, is the muting circuit on? Can you touch your output transistors to see if they are really hot? Do all inputs go silent, or just whatever you're listening to? Have you cleaned the unit with deoxit and checked/ replaced the fuses?
> 
> Also, unrelated note, I'm firing up the minivanmobile tomorrow for a nice unit. Skylab and Moody, I don't remember which one of you has it's little brother, but I'll be joining your tube club (hopefully).




It doesn't go silent - it turns off. Completely. And then after a while, it comes back up again, all by itself. Turning it on and off right after doesnt help either. Which sounds like a heat problem to me maybe? But its never too hot to touch. Which ones are the output resistors? I'm a nub haha, and in highschool. And no, havent gotten around to using deoxit and replacing fuses, I have exams so I was waiting.


----------



## PhoenixG

hojomojo96 said:


> It doesn't go silent - it turns off. Completely. And then after a while, it comes back up again, all by itself. Turning it on and off right after doesnt help either. Which sounds like a heat problem to me maybe? But its never too hot to touch. Which ones are the output resistors? I'm a nub haha, and in highschool. And no, havent gotten around to using deoxit and replacing fuses, I have exams so I was waiting.


 
 So I googled your problem. It seems like your protection circuit has been stepping in and shutting you down. 99% of the time, it's a bad protection temperature sensor, and the rest of the time it's a runaway output transistor due to bad bias voltage or bad transistors. The output transistors are the big round ones on the heat sinks in the middle of the unit. You can diagnose the problem with some electronics cooling spray. Open the unit and locate the output transistors and the protection sensors. They'll both be on the heat sinks. Maybe download the service manual to make sure of what you're looking at.
 Turn the unit on and wait until it turns off. See what got hot and hit it with cooling spray. If it comes back up, go from there.Hopefully, it's the sensor, as you can just replace it. If it's the transistor, then you have to figure out why it's overheating. Good luck. This unit is worth fixing.


----------



## hojomojo96

phoenixg said:


> So I googled your problem. It seems like your protection circuit has been stepping in and shutting you down. 99% of the time, it's a bad protection temperature sensor, and the rest of the time it's a runaway output transistor due to bad bias voltage or bad transistors. The output transistors are the big round ones on the heat sinks in the middle of the unit. You can diagnose the problem with some electronics cooling spray. Open the unit and locate the output transistors and the protection sensors. They'll both be on the heat sinks. Maybe download the service manual to make sure of what you're looking at.
> Turn the unit on and wait until it turns off. See what got hot and hit it with cooling spray. If it comes back up, go from there.Hopefully, it's the sensor, as you can just replace it. If it's the transistor, then you have to figure out why it's overheating. Good luck. This unit is worth fixing.



If the output transistors are the big silver ones, then they're not hot at all. The boards near the heatsink/power supply are the only ones putting out heat. I'll order deoxit and cooling spray asap. Thanks so much, I'm definitely gonna try to fix it.


----------



## Oregonian

No, this isn't a new receiver or amp but it is an addition to my now ALL Pioneer Spec system. 
  
 Picked up this Pioneer S50 turntable this morning - replaces my Yamaha P-520 which was a nice table but wanted all Pioneer in the rack.  Cerwin Vega's are staying.............
  
 TT sounds very nice................
  


  
 Played the Eagles - One of These Nights - my favorite song - first.  Did not disappoint.


----------



## LugBug1

Lookin good! Matches well with the Spec


----------



## PhoenixG

I hinted I had something coming, and here it is:

  
 800c. Looks good, but one of the output tubes is red plating, so that has to be solved before I can do anything with it.


----------



## MIKELAP

oregonian said:


> No, this isn't a new receiver or amp but it is an addition to my now ALL Pioneer Spec system.
> 
> Picked up this Pioneer S50 turntable this morning - replaces my Yamaha P-520 which was a nice table but wanted all Pioneer in the rack.  Cerwin Vega's are staying.............
> 
> ...


 
 The tower of power.


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> I hinted I had something coming, and here it is:
> 
> 
> 800c. Looks good, but one of the output tubes is red plating, so that has to be solved before I can do anything with it.


 
 Cheeky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Congrats bud


----------



## Argybargy

phoenixg said:


> I hinted I had something coming, and here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 800c. Looks good, but one of the output tubes is red plating, so that has to be solved before I can do anything with it.



Lovely. I listen to mine every day. I'd be curious to hear what headphones you find to have the best synergy. 
And what tubes you settle on.
All of the vintage 600ohm phones sound great, with my top pick being the Beyer dt990, the one from the late 1980s(?).


----------



## PhoenixG

argybargy said:


> Lovely. I listen to mine every day. I'd be curious to hear what headphones you find to have the best synergy.
> And what tubes you settle on.
> All of the vintage 600ohm phones sound great, with my top pick being the Beyer dt990, the one from the late 1980s(?).


 
 This is the best vintage receiver thread on the internet, but despite the site name, I'm not big into headphones. I have one vintage pair of JVC's I use to test the basic functions of amps that don't have anything hooked up, but I'm otherwise headphone-less. Also, protip, I keep headphones plugged in (on vintage amps with a resistor based head amp) when I adjust the dc bias to keep cap-coupled output amps from running away. I almost exclusively use speakers, and I try to keep my musings on them at the speaker forum (which I'm going to shamelessly plug now). 
 Check it out, subscribe, post. I'd like to see what everyone has and how they like it.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/552257/calling-all-vintage-speaker-owners/1230#post_10556223


----------



## roadcykler

I procured a Mitsubishi M-PF5200 Pre-amp/Tuner and a M-A4200 amp and some smaller Mission speakers today. The Mitsubishi stuff is in very good condition and looks great but I can't find much of anything on-line about either of them. Just a few random things here and there but nothing definitive. Anyway, not sure what I'm going to replace but I may have at least have an integrated for sale soon and will list the vintage Kenwood tuner as soon as I get a couple of pictures.
  
 If anyone here has any info on the preamp and amp or where I could find some, I'd appreciate it.


----------



## analogsurviver

roadcykler said:


> I procured a Mitsubishi M-PF5200 Pre-amp/Tuner and a M-A4200 amp and some smaller Mission speakers today. The Mitsubishi stuff is in very good condition and looks great but I can't find much of anything on-line about either of them. Just a few random things here and there but nothing definitive. Anyway, not sure what I'm going to replace but I may have at least have an integrated for sale soon and will list the vintage Kenwood tuner as soon as I get a couple of pictures.
> 
> If anyone here has any info on the preamp and amp or where I could find some, I'd appreciate it.


 
 Google is your friend.  http://www.analogalley.com/osccart/product_info.php?currency=GBP&products_id=299
  
 This time, nothing on your Mitsubishi models on hifienhene - except pictures :
  
 http://www.hifiengine.com/gallery/images/mitsubishi-m-a4200-stereo-power-amplifier.shtml
  
 http://www.hifiengine.com/gallery/images/mitsubishi-m-pf5200-preamplifer-tuner.shtml
  
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/36757414@N04/4601980758/in/photostream/
  
 From the last pics it is clear output stage is implememented by STKs.
  
 Never saw any Mitsubishi gear in flesh, but some were supposedly quite decent indeed - particularly the modular series predating your units ( around 1989) by about a decade.


----------



## roadcykler

analogsurviver said:


> Google is your friend.  http://www.analogalley.com/osccart/product_info.php?currency=GBP&products_id=299
> 
> This time, nothing on your Mitsubishi models on hifienhene - except pictures :
> 
> ...


 
 I Googled the heck out of both pieces but didn't find anything other than pictures and a few posts on AK about possible wpc. What is "STK"? I'm not familiar with that.


----------



## analogsurviver

roadcykler said:


> I Googled the heck out of both pieces but didn't find anything other than pictures and a few posts on AK about possible wpc. What is "STK"? I'm not familiar with that.


 
 STK is a power amplifier in a "chip" which mounts directly to the heat sink (please see the pic on Flickr). It has been mentioned/covered in this thread on several ocassions.
  
 Mitsubishi gear did sometimes push the absolute limits - particularly in speakers, introduced roughly shortly after PCM and CD, to subsatantially improve upon anything that went on before. Only a handful of pairs are known to be in the US - whenever these were compared to "usual suspects", those Mitsubishi speakers always came on top.
  
 Next to unobtainium outside Japan - and loads of $ if available for sale within Japan.


----------



## jring

Hi,
  
 here's my baby marantz 2215b which I got for $80 locally - cosmetics quite nice - needed caps, lamps, vellum and lampbox painting.
  

  
  
 Sounds great with my phones or speakers (I have bookcase speakers with an active sub so the 15W are quite sufficient).
  
 Joachim


----------



## jring

analogsurviver said:


> STK is a power amplifier in a "chip" which mounts directly to the heat sink (please see the pic on Flickr). It has been mentioned/covered in this thread on several ocassions.
> 
> Mitsubishi gear did sometimes push the absolute limits - particularly in speakers, introduced roughly shortly after PCM and CD, to subsatantially improve upon anything that went on before. Only a handful of pairs are known to be in the US - whenever these were compared to "usual suspects", those Mitsubishi speakers always came on top.
> 
> Next to unobtainium outside Japan - and loads of $ if available for sale within Japan.


 
  
 The STK-4044V shown in the flickr pic is actually available for $10 or so on ebay... but in general, yes STK chipamps can be a pita to get spares for - I'd avoid stuff with these that needs repair.
  
 Joachim


----------



## analogsurviver

jring said:


> The STK-4044V shown in the flickr pic is actually available for $10 or so on ebay... but in general, yes STK chipamps can be a pita to get spares for - I'd avoid stuff with these that needs repair.
> 
> Joachim


 
 That was the general idea behind my reference to STKs.
  
 It also means it is wise to check out service manual for your intended new addition of vintage gear BEFORE the purchase - in order not to stumble upon Unobtainium part$.
  
 But I was pleasently surprised by the sound some better amps with STK can produce - one that is OK is
 Technics SU-C03, despite the use of STK.


----------



## PhoenixG

jring said:


> Hi,
> 
> here's my baby marantz 2215b which I got for $80 locally - cosmetics quite nice - needed caps, lamps, vellum and lampbox painting.
> 
> ...


 
 I do really enjoy the blue dials... cheers


----------



## tribestros

jring said:


> Hi,
> 
> here's my baby marantz 2215b which I got for $80 locally - cosmetics quite nice - needed caps, lamps, vellum and lampbox painting.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the marantz club. Some would disagree, but there isn't a better vintage IMO than a 70s marantz.


----------



## terry parr

i noticed that my JVC RX-317 started to "cut out" at the h/p jack about a week ago.  (if you would carefully "jiggle" the headphone termination, like you would "jiggle" a toilet handle), the sound would be restored.  i wondered whether to get this problem fixed, and then i decided to check craigslist to see if there was anything out there locally that was similar.
  
 turns out, a JVC RX-664V was available about an hour away.  i picked it up saturday.  it seems to have most of the "punch" of the RX-317, while giving you a bit more bass definition.
  
 i've decided that it was worth it to (give up, by just a little bit) some of the "slam" of the 317, if i would be gaining a bit more nuanced detail with the new JVC piece.
  
 i put on "invitation" by patricia barber last night, and i am hearing more subtle detail (both in the acoustic grand piano, as well as the acoustic bass.  i'm getting a bit more "harmonic" information from the piano, especially when chords are sustained, and hearing more detail in the bass, as the bass player moves his fingers from one string to the next and when two strings are played at once.  it was a kick to get more detail out of this tune (that i was already very familiar with).  so a subtle change was noticeable.
  
 also received my JPS Labs UltraConductor 2 interconnects (which seem to pair very favorably with my existing components).
  
 i've been auditioning different types of cable recently on loan from the cable company, and these JPS interconnects seem to pair the best with the Audeze LCD-3. (to my ears, anyway). this interconnect preserves the depth and quality of the low-end, which the LCD-3 is known for, while at the same time "smoothing-out" the upper mids and high frequencies (which, to my ears anyway has always been the "achilles heel" of this headphone).
  
 the interconnecting cable is also a very important part of "component matching", too, in my opinion.
  
 it seems JVC did make some subtle changes that you can notice from the h/p out, even within this "RX" series, but in my opinion the sound was improved a bit, with this newer piece that i have.   remember, though that i'm only judging the h/p out only, as i haven't even hooked this new piece up to speakers yet.
  
 this piece isn't as "sexy-looking" as my carver integrated, but i really do appreciate the h/p out that JVC was using during this time period.
  
 (and with the piece being all black, i no longer have a piece in my rack "sticking out like a sore thumb" any longer!).  it looks a lot better with the other audio pieces i have in the rack.


----------



## PhoenixG

Glad you found something you like! If you get a chance, please show some pictures of your setup.


----------



## harrinj

2220B's for everybody! April and May is 2220B month on CL all around! lmao it's weird.


----------



## 2gumby2

The Carver called "The Receiver" at 150 watts per channel is fantastic. Has the best tuner I have ever experienced. Sold it on eBay, but it is still one of the best pieces of Hi-Fi gear I have ever owned.


----------



## moodyrn

I just thought I would post a couple of projects I've been working on recently. I recently bought a few defective vintage irons with the most recent being a mcintosh mc-2505 and more recent a mcintosh ma-6200(one of the few that's on my very short list to one day own). I'll start with the 2505. The ebay seller listed this as one channel working with a couple of heatsink transistors missing and with the face plate being in great shape. Well this is what I received.
  

  

  

  

  

  
 The one piece of bubble wrap you see in the third picture is all of the packaging that was used; no kidding. Well to be fair, it was double boxed. But the outer box was just large enough to accommodate the inner box. One funny thing, in his defense he tried to point out how it was double boxed. lol. And of course he refused to do anything to make it right. He wouldn't even accept any return whatsoever. And to make matters worse, it was missing a lot more than a couple of heatsink transistors. It was missing those along with the amp boards electrolytics, a few resistors, diodes, and transistors. Not to mentions about 20+ other bad parts. So this ended up being a much larger project than I anticipated. But here are the results.
  

  

  

  

  
 How does it sound? Well I can say I can see what the fuss is all about with this one. It sounds a lot like a less powerful 2205. But not quiet up there with it overall, but still better than anything else I've owned with exception of the fisher. But right up there with it also. Very dynamic powerful sound. The bass is just explosive, and the mids have just a slight sweetness to it. It does not have the silky highs of a g9000/901, but the 2505 highs sound just a tad bit more airy from what I remember from the g901 with not harshness whatsoever. But the ma6200 is just as impressive and in some ways more so. And since it's a one box solution, I'm going to keep it in favor of the 2505 since I would need to shell out a good bit of cash for a preamp.


----------



## moodyrn

Much more to come later regarding the 6200. The physical condition was much worse than the 2505, but the seller was honest about it, and packed as if it was a new amp. Pretty much the opposite of what the 2505 seller did.


----------



## Silent One

Your being competent goes a long way in overcoming_ the shady. _I'd have more of a burden from bad deals-exchanges-experiences with vintage lovelies since I've not yet graduated to restoration.


----------



## Argybargy

Wow, it sure looks like a professional restoration!
  
 Did you get any kind of partial refund from paypal/ebay?


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks. I first gave the seller a chance to make right on this. Because from my experience with a 2325, I knew what would happen if the seller was unwilling to work things out. The absolutely right thing to do would have been to send me a prepaid shipping label to ship it back. With this, he would have lost the money on shipping both ways, but ebay and paypal would have refunded his seller fees(about 13%, they refund nothing if it goes to escalation). So that alone would have taken care of shipping one way. He still could have gotten close to what I paid him by doing an auction. I bought it at a really good price on a buyitnow. I saw one almost this bad go for similar money on a buyitnow. So in the end, he still would have made some money. That would have been a good solution for both of us.
  
 But he was unwilling to do anything. He kept driving the fact that it was a parts repair. But the faceplate in the listing was mint, and he couldn't understand that fact that he was still responsible for getting it to me in the cosmetic condition listed. Heck, technically I could have filed a case on all of the missing parts alone when he advertised only a couple of transistors were missing. But instead, he said maybe I was trying to scam him by swapping his faceplate for a broken one from a 2505 I already owned. When I picked the box up, I knew it was damaged because you could hear broken glass inside the box. So I took pictures of the whole unboxing process. But he still decided to go there. And after ebay refunded all of my money, I sent him a message saying he could have it back as long as he paid for shipping. I waited over two weeks and never heard back from him. That's when I decided to try to restore it and keep which ever I liked best between this and the 6200.


----------



## Pudu

Once you're done, make sure to send him a nice photo of the finished product.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol


----------



## LugBug1

Great work as always moody! She looks stunning now. 
  
 Well, big day for me today... I'm moving house 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  In the last few weeks I've sold off 90% of my vintage to ease the load 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But to be fair I only listen to 10% of them anyways. So I'll be gone for a while until I get settled in and set back up. Then I can start buying new (vintage) stuff because I'll have a whole new converted attic to fill up! Which will be a no wife zone muhahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Don't miss me too much guys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 (also, I remember telling you guys about me being made redundant end of last year, well I've managed to secure a new job in the same place. So new job, new house I'm a happy bunny!)
  
 Now the stressful part...


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> Great work as always moody! She looks stunning now.
> 
> Well, big day for me today... I'm moving house
> 
> ...


 
 Good luck ! - with everything ...


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Thanks. I first gave the seller a chance to make right on this. Because from my experience with a 2325, I knew what would happen if the seller was unwilling to work things out. The absolutely right thing to do would have been to send me a prepaid shipping label to ship it back. With this, he would have lost the money on shipping both ways, but ebay and paypal would have refunded his seller fees(about 13%, they refund nothing if it goes to escalation). So that alone would have taken care of shipping one way. He still could have gotten close to what I paid him by doing an auction. I bought it at a really good price on a buyitnow. I saw one almost this bad go for similar money on a buyitnow. So in the end, he still would have made some money. That would have been a good solution for both of us.
> 
> But he was unwilling to do anything. He kept driving the fact that it was a parts repair. But the faceplate in the listing was mint, and he couldn't understand that fact that he was still responsible for getting it to me in the cosmetic condition listed. Heck, technically I could have filed a case on all of the missing parts alone when he advertised only a couple of transistors were missing. But instead, he said maybe I was trying to scam him by swapping his faceplate for a broken one from a 2505 I already owned. When I picked the box up, I knew it was damaged because you could hear broken glass inside the box. So I took pictures of the whole unboxing process. But he still decided to go there. And after ebay refunded all of my money, I sent him a message saying he could have it back as long as he paid for shipping. I waited over two weeks and never heard back from him. That's when I decided to try to restore it and keep which ever I liked best between this and the 6200.


 
 It is all sorts of sellers - on ebay or otherwise.
  
 But the pattern, confirmed over time, is something like this :
  
 The condition and quality of packaging is INVERSELY proportional to the price paid.
  
 Seems illogical at first - but I have received items advertised in the auction as "almost better than new", with correspondingly high winning bid, with premium shipping paid for, in sometimes derelict condition, delivered by the cheapest possible _*unsigned for *_( and therefore uninsured ...) method the seller could possibly find -
  
 AND
  
 I have also received "defective" units , with packaging that would put original manufacturer's box to shame - for peanuts. 
  
 It all boils down to the seller; some are professionals, making 1000% effort in order to get the item to you in condition they themselves would like to receive their purchases; at the minimum costs to you that still allow
 for such a service. There are "amateur" sellers that go even more extra mile, foot, milimetre or whatever in this regard.
  
 On the other end, there are sellers of high end gear, masters of hiding any defects, with item descriptions that would make anyone remotely interested in buying that item drool, packing that "high end" item like it was a bunch of potatoes. With "fixed" shipping rates, making sure to gain in the process.  Always try to check seller's feedback, particularly negative ones, if any; should that raise an eyebrow regarding condition/shipping damage for that particular seller,  I suggest passing on such a deal.
  
 Trouble is, with rare vintage items, such sellers might be the only game - on the planet...


----------



## Xenophon

It's all across the board...I've purchased stuff from sellers with a clad platinum rating that turned out to be misdescribed or sloppily packaged and sometimes you do things that look like an invitation to disaster but turn out really well.  I once purchased a pair of Tung Sol 5998 from a seller with mixed reputation who stated that they looked good externally but that he hadn't tested them and explicitly sold 'as is' with no guarantee at all and no returns.  He also stated that he didn't want feedback.  Price was about half of what a reputable seller would ask.  I took the gamble...best tubes I ever purchased, absolutely mint condition.  Contacted him and it turned out that he was a militaria wholesaler who had purchased the contents of a decommissioned army storage facility.....HUNDREDS of tubes among it...if I had known....  He wasn't interested in maximising his profit, just wanted to shift it all ASAP.  
  
 Latest thing:  for the SX-1980 I purchased shipping was indicated as 'DHL' from Poland to Belgium at 60 EUR.  The monster weighs 40 kg packed-->sure enough, shipping via DHL turned out to be >200 EUR but the seller ate the increase, extremely correct guy (I did agree to a slower shipping option).  BTW:  gonna try it out coming weekend, flying over to my place in Europe tonight.  Keep your fingers crossed.


----------



## PhoenixG

Congrats on the 1980, and nice job on the Mac! 
 I just mailed my fisher 800c to argybargy for a modernization - I'll let him say if I packed it well.


----------



## Skylab

Moody that is one nice restore. Great work!!!!


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone have experience with a Luxman L&G R3800 receiver? Seldom see these units up for sale and there is one locally which has not been fiddled with internally..any feedback is most appreciated!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks everyone, and congrats lugbug on the new house and job. I'm really happy for you and I sincerely hope you won't be gone too long.  And congrats xenophon on scoring the 1980. It must have been really hard to come by given your location. 
  
 Now back to shipping issues. I still can't understand why these sellers just don't get it. I've sold quiet a few vintage irons on ebay myself and I've never had anything come back on me. I make sure that the item is packed as well as it can be. I did have one mishap of a tube being bad in a tube tuner. I have the buyer the option of returning it or giving him a partial refund to pay for a "nos" tube he found. I have lost on shipping a few times, but nothing too significant  with the exception the first 2325 I sold that I charged 75.00 for and it cost me 180.00(ups did all of the packaging). Now I just make sure I charge enough for shipping to at least cover most of my packaging materials. And if there's a difference of more than a few dollars, I refund it.
  
 A good example of things being done right was the ma6200 I bought a little while after the 2505. Here's pics of what was in the listing.

  

  

  
 But the seller packed this as if it was a show piece. It was double box and encased in multiple layers of foam and bubble wrap. The shipping was 70.00, but he refunded 30.00 of it since it only cost 40.00 to ship. The difference between this and the 2505 is, this is actually how the 6200 looked before I bought it. The 2505 faceplate was mint before I bought it. So it would seem the 2505 seller would have been the one to go all out on packaging(one small piece of bubble wrap...really?). The 6200 probably couldn't have gotten much worse lol.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Shipping really is an art.  I have developed a system for doing it right:
  
 1.) Three layers of bubble wrap - to the point of where it will almost bounce.
 2.) Use spare cardboard to build a shell around the bubble wrapped item - all taped securely.
 3.) Place that inside a real box with foam or other buffering material between the cardboard shell and box.
  
 They would really have to go out of their way to destroy it.  So far no issues.
  
 Still working on my 1250 - about to order some parts.  I hate to say it but I still think that at moderate listening levels my tricked out Sherwood 7100A beats it, but we will see.


----------



## Silent One

analogsurviver said:


> Good luck ! - with everything ...


 
 +1


----------



## Skylab

I love how the late afternoon sun hits my little sanctuary...


----------



## Argybargy

Nice! I like how the lava lamp accents all the warm wood.


----------



## Xenophon

Lovely!  Do you still use the reel 2 reel?


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> I love how the late afternoon sun hits my little sanctuary...





Beautiful!!


----------



## wotts

Looking good, Rob!


----------



## Skylab

xenophon said:


> Lovely!  Do you still use the reel 2 reel?




OHYEAH. All the time! I'm a huge tape head. This May give you some idea 



That's about 1/3 of my reel tapes...




moodyrn said:


> Beautiful!!







wotts said:


> Looking good, Rob!




Thanks fellas!!!!


----------



## elrod-tom

Been meaning to post the stuff in my vintage stash for a while.  Will try to get better pics...these are just crappy iPhone pics.
  
 This is a Fisher 500C that was given to me by my Father-in-law.  It was the first thing he bought after graduating from Berkeley with his PhD in the mid-60's.  It was restored by NOS Valves, and sounds fantastic.

 On top of the Fisher is a Wadia 830 with digital inputs, P-upgrade to add a separate digital power source, and GNSC mods.  It's almost 25 years old, but I'd stack this up against anything I've heard of recent vintage that costs less than $2,000.
  
 I feel like I should have a picture of my AKG K240's that I bought in 1982 in this picture too...maybe next time.


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful Fisher, Tom!!!


----------



## elrod-tom

skylab said:


> Beautiful Fisher, Tom!!!


 
 Thanks Rob....Craig at NOS Valves said he'd not seen one in better condition.  It still has all NOS tubes, including the power tubes.  That won't last forever, of course, but for now...
  
 It also, obviously, has great sentimental value.


----------



## Oregonian

Today's score........a Pioneer SX-1050 in pristine shape. Walnut is as new, sound is as expected great and that's through the headphone out into my D7000's. Guy threw in the vintage Pioneer Monitor 10's which sound good for what they are. Now to hook up the Klipsch 3.2's and check out the speaker sound. Was the original owner who is getting into tube radios. Nice guy, about 60 or so and he said he liked how good my communication was. Get this- the guy drive down from Seattle about 2 hours to meet me! And the price was well worth it. Guess it pays off to ask nicely!


----------



## .Sup

Wow looks like brand new, 70s all over again, nice score Oregonian! Enjoy it!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Front looks identical to my 1250.  Very nice!


----------



## ssrock64

Some of the vintage collectors around here swear by the Monitor 10. How are they sounding to you?


----------



## Oregonian

ssrock64 said:


> Some of the vintage collectors around here swear by the Monitor 10. How are they sounding to you?




For only listening to them for five minutes, they don't suck. I started off with the D7000 so not a fair fight but they sound pretty good. I'll give them a bit more time in the next day or so and post up.


----------



## ssrock64

Occasionally a pair comes up for sale at my local vintage audio shop, and I've been tempted a couple times, but I really don't see myself using them much beyond for novelty value unless they turn out really excelling at something.


----------



## Oregonian

For cheap ($20) they are worth a try. They are not a killer sounding set in my opinion. Not with Denons and Fostex around anyway.


----------



## moodyrn

Beautiful fisher elrod-tom. As a fellow restored 500c owner I completely agree(and then some) to how great it is. 

@Oregonian, great score!! She looks fabulous.


----------



## moodyrn

I just remembered I didn't post pics of the finished ma6200. Incased you missed it here's a couple of before pics.






And now the completed pics.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> I just remembered I didn't post pics of the finished ma6200. Incased you missed it here's a couple of before pics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice job, as always! Very pretty, though I am biased haha. I see that you went with the slant leg cabinet, bold choice.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Phoenix! The cab isn't mcintosh. The guy who was selling the mr78 decided to sell the cab separate since he had a hard time selling the mr78. He had someone local to build the cab using mcintosh specs and panloc hardware. It's made from solid wood and only cost me 115.00. Whoever made it, did a really nice job.


----------



## Skylab

Wow amazing work, Moody! Nice. And Oregonian, awesome 1050! Great stuff fellas!!!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Sky! There were two integrateds on my short list. This one and a sa9800. So since I came across this one first, the pioneer is off my list. So now my vintage journey is complete(yeah right).


----------



## PhoenixG

Man, if I could get a solid walnut case (for the sony)) at that price, I'd be lining up!


----------



## PhoenixG

And since this thread can always use more rig photos, here's everything for the main rig, including the sony str-6120 without a case. I'm slowly getting more square footage as the wife warms up the hobby. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The fisher is gone for a modernization by argy bargy, and the pioneer will be off soon as well for an update.


----------



## moodyrn

Nice!! Very cool looking setup. And surprisingly, the sony don't look out of place with the 1980 and Mac tuner. I wish my case was solid walnut. It is solid wood but some other kind of (probably cheap) hardwood. But it does feel very solid.


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm finally getting a really good chance to listen to the sony str-6120 on some better speakers and it's doing quite nicely. The headroom is just limitless. It goes louder than I'm really willing to listen and it sounds good. All the highs are present and balanced. There's no discernible roll-off of the high frequencies, very flat response down to a very visceral 10-ish hertz. It sounds smooth and full without sounding clinical or bloomy. The background is pretty quiet. I found that out by accident when I was first searching for the fm signal and wasn't sure if I had set it up right (no hisssssss). Quite a bit different than the str-6065, which is a slightly cooler sound & a slightly newer model in this line from sony. The sony str-6120 kinda sounds (tonally) like a nice mid power mcintosh setup. It's really that good and the build quality is certainly there. It weighs about 40lbs for 60wpc, and there's a nice comfortable amount of shielding up in there.
  
 This guy was a real bear to find. I found a good review on another site about it about a year ago. It took me 6 months to find one online, and the seller was super sketchy (wanted to be paid right away, as a friend on paypal, etc). It was bought in a broken state. Cosmetically a 9/10, but had no sound at all. With my friend Foxx, we "fixed" the problem with the power supply back to the original specs, but it seems like the power supply was poorly designed and the problem kept re-occurring in new components. The output power supply rectifier was blowing due to high initial current draws. We designed a mod to make the power supply as bullet proof as the rest of the unit and now it works like a charm.
 I'm finally getting to it now after all this lead up since I loaned it to my uncle after his sony-6060F broke. He was using some small infinity cmmd's with it and it sounded as good as really nice modern stuff through them.


----------



## moodyrn

Nice impressions!


----------



## verde57

I have a dilemma, maybe someone can  clarify why vintage receivers are made with a lot more power and built heavier?( Technics SA-1000 has one transformer 12kg and the whole thing weighs 40kg!!!)
 In stead integrated amps came half the weight and power...


----------



## Silent One

verde57, by chance you have a Technics SA-1000? If so, throw us some pix!


----------



## .Sup

verde57 said:


> I have a dilemma, maybe someone can  clarify why vintage receivers are made with a lot more power and built heavier?( Technics SA-1000 has one transformer 12kg and the whole thing weighs 40kg!!!)
> In stead integrated amps came half the weight and power...



Some things that come to mind: heatsinks, wood panels, bigger size since there is a tuner built in as well.


----------



## analogsurviver

verde57 said:


> I have a dilemma, maybe someone can  clarify why vintage receivers are made with a lot more power and built heavier?( Technics SA-1000 has one transformer 12kg and the whole thing weighs 40kg!!!)
> In stead integrated amps came half the weight and power...


 
 Many, many full moons ago, when companies were trying to get the biggest share of the market trough demonstrating their technological expertise and build quality, such behemots as SA -1000 were possible.
  
 Problem - such designs were usually sold at _*loss*_ - meaning they cost manufacturers more than the retail price. Or very close to that - in short, not commercially viable.
 Technics has units like SA-1000 - and plastick fantastick next-to-junk that hardly weighs anything. Hopefully, the units somewhere in between are reasonable - both from performance to the consumer and financial gain to the manufacturer views. The losses with flagship TOTL models were being compensated for by quantity of lower priced models sold.
  
 This model came to an end around year 2000 - the last product still bearing Technics badge was 1210 turntable, finally discontinued a few years ago.
  
 In today's hyper competitive market, the likes of SA-1000 are not totally impossible - but are extremely unlikely. There were technological advances over the years - but power amplifiers still require good power supplies and cooling ribs in order to deliver their goods ( if not some, generally still lame sounding D Class ) in a chassis that can support them - and that costs money. Try to ship the SA-1000 to another continent - shipping alone would exceed what most people are prepared to pay for stereo today.
  
 For above reasons, as well as used pricing in general, is vintage ( good vintage ) equipment, despite all the progress and "progress" of today, still very interesting
 way of obtaining superiour sound  at reasonable cost.
  
 There are 100 kg + power amps on the market today, with performance to match - at a price most of us can not even start swearing about....


----------



## Silent One

Well said...


----------



## verde57

silent one said:


> verde57, by chance you have a Technics SA-1000? If so, throw us some pix!


 
 No, I don't have one because I was focusing in integrates... and still do


analogsurviver said:


> This model came to an end around year 2000 - the last product still bearing Technics badge was 1210 turntable, finally discontinued a few years ago.
> 
> Try to ship the SA-1000 to another continent - shipping alone would exceed what most people are prepared to pay for stereo today.
> 
> There are 100 kg + power amps on the market today, with performance to match - at a price most of us can not even start swearing about....


 
 By the way the SL1200 will go into production again, because of demand.
 To ship 40kg and in good health overseas is a crazy stunt, I can't even think too such a thing.
 Around 1500$ was the Technics SA-1000.


.sup said:


> Some things that come to mind: heatsinks, wood panels, bigger size since there is a tuner built in as well.


 
 It's not just that, the receivers were much powerful,  double in fact, over 300W!!! with one trafo!
 My vintage integrated has two trannies and just around 90W at  a total around 15kg... can you imagine how is to hold in your hands just one transformer at 12kg(Technics sa1000)!! crazy, it is like talking about Bugatti's Veyron compared to pedestrian cars!
  
 By the way, does anybody use the tuner feature in receivers? does it hold against new digital tuners?


----------



## Oregonian

verde57 said:


> No, I don't have one because I was focusing in integrates... and still do
> By the way the SL1200 will go into production again, because of demand.
> To ship 40kg and in good health overseas is a crazy stunt, I can't even think too such a thing.
> Around 1500$ was the Technics SA-1000.
> ...


 
  
 A few months ago I commented that I hadn't listened to FM in about 5 years.  Since I got a couple of good deals on a Realistic and Hitachi tuner, and now my SX-1050, I find myself listening to FM more and more since I found a classic rock station here in Portland.  Still prefer hitting the AUX switch and listening to Pandora or a CD, or for sure vinyl, but FM is useful to me.  And my Pioneer tuner without an antenna can pull in my local stations...............so I'd say they can compete with the digital tuners.


----------



## analogsurviver

verde57 said:


> No, I don't have one because I was focusing in integrates... and still do
> By the way the SL1200 will go into production again, because of demand.
> To ship 40kg and in good health overseas is a crazy stunt, I can't even think too such a thing.
> Around 1500$ was the Technics SA-1000.
> ...


 
 I have seen SA-1000 once in one of our now defunct vintage stores - he/she/it is out of this world, after all these years it will make you utter that:  WOW .... !
  
 For some reason, manufacturers chose to make the pis...ng match with high powered receivers. Back in the day, I *think* only Rotel had a comparable/even more powerful power amp. 
  
 Analog vs digital tuner - tough one. Depends what you are looking for. If it is sound quality from a relatively strong signal without adjacent strong stations, analog usually has the upper hand. If you would kill to hear that
 favourite show of yours from a station over-the-horizon squeezed in between two powerful local stations - digital usually wins. There are exception$$$$$$$ to this basic rule ... 
  
 Just a reminder for the US readers - in Europe, FM stations are two times less apart in frequency than in US - meaning selectivity is far more important than in US. The likes of Sequerra, under conditions it was designed for stellar tuner, generally just does not cut it in Europe. One tuner that impressed me the most was Tandberg 3020 with _*multiple*_ selectivity bandwidth ( the crazy high spec machine that needs re-aligning about every six months/a year at the factory, the reason it was modified to 3020A, which traded some of the turbo high spec ( channel separation of 70 dB reduced to "just" 60 dB ) for stability over time ) - but since this is a receiver thread, Tandberg receivers, although anything but powerhouses, were decent and praised for the tuner part. 
  
 Tuner, fed with a proper signal ( antenna on a rotator ) , is still the best sound source one can possibly have outside the studio. Think well done live transmissions done in _*analog *_- rare, on the verge of getting extinct -
 but sweet.


----------



## PhoenixG

I am really fond of my tuners. I use analogue tuners exclusively. I haven't found a digital tuner that will catch as much as finely as a nice hand turned knob. I also like looking at them, haha. I'm sure the specs speak for themselves, but the MR-78 can capture damn near anything, no matter how many other loud signals are around it. The sx-1980 sounds fantastic and is almost as sensitive, which is high praise for an integrated receiver tuner.


----------



## moodyrn

Also keep in mind, all integrates are not the same. There were monster integrates as well. The thing is, there were just a lot more receiver models produced vs integrates. For example, a kenwood ka 907 weighs almost 60lbs. It's also very conservatively rated at 150wpc, and sounded more powerful than the sx1280 I had. The au9500 weighs (over 50lbs) slightly more than the marantz 2325 I use to own and it's only rated at 70wpc. 

The marantz 1200 integrated I'm currently working on is also very heavy and equally well built. And these are just a few examples of integrates I personally to owned. I hadn't even mention the au 20000 which is even more monsterous than the ka 907. There were many monster integrates too. But the receivers were built in much higher quantities and the monster class integrates are much more rare and hard to find.


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


> I am really fond of my tuners. I use analogue tuners exclusively. I haven't found a digital tuner that will catch as much as finely as a nice hand turned knob. I also like looking at them, haha. I'm sure the specs speak for themselves, but the MR-78 can capture damn near anything, no matter how many other loud signals are around it. The sx-1980 sounds fantastic and is almost as sensitive, which is high praise for an integrated receiver tuner.


 
 MR78 is one of the few exception$$$$$$ - one of the best tuners ever; but I have yet to  have the pleasure to audition it. These mods are highly regarded - in case MR78 in stock form is not "enough"  http://www.audioclassics.com/mods.php3
  
 We have a saying here : *Almost *never catches a rabbit.
  
 I also have Pioneer TX-9500 II tuner, which is probably (?) comparable to the one in SX-1980 - correct me if I am wrong, did not go comparing specs for the two. Not bad at all - save for selectivity that forces me to switch to digital tuner(s). I kinda like my classical music broadcast better with somewhat reduced sheer audio quality than having to endure subdued boom&sizzle way down in the "mix" from adjacent strong local pop/whatever station. 
  
 Wish I could afford MR 78, though ! Practical approximation of best of both worlds ... combined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## PhoenixG

analogsurviver said:


> MR78 is one of the few exception$$$$$$ - one of the best tuners ever; but I have yet to  have the pleasure to audition it. These mods are highly regarded - in case MR78 in stock form is not "enough"  http://www.audioclassics.com/mods.php3
> 
> We have a saying here : *Almost *never catches a rabbit.
> 
> ...


 
 Man, those mods look fantastic, but at about 2x what I paid for the tuner, those mods are out of reach. It's a great tuner, no doubt about it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> Tuner, fed with a proper signal ( antenna on a rotator ) , is still the best sound source one can possibly have outside the studio. Think well done live transmissions done in _*analog *_- rare, on the verge of getting extinct -
> but sweet.


 
  
 100% agree.  As I have mentioned previously in this thread I have a Kenwood KT-7550 with all the mods (and then some) recommended at www.fmtunerinfo.com.  It is the centerpiece of my main audio system.  No CD player I have yet auditioned can touch it.  We have a great Jazz station here in Rochester NY which brings out the best in my tuner.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> 100% agree.  As I have mentioned previously in this thread I have a Kenwood KT-7550 with all the mods (and then some) recommended at www.fmtunerinfo.com.  It is the centerpiece of my main audio system.  No CD player I have yet auditioned can touch it.  We have a great Jazz station here in Rochester NY which brings out the best in my tuner.


 
 Any kind of recorder connected to that tuna 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ?


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> Any kind of recorder connected to that tuna
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not yet - but am looking into it.  Occasionally I miss some of the programs I want to hear.  The Nakamichi RX-505 is one I am thinking about as it has auto reverse (done the right way), is based on technology from the Dragon, and could record a 2 hour program for me.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Not yet - but am looking into it.  Occasionally I miss some of the programs I want to hear.  The Nakamichi RX-505 is one I am thinking about as it has auto reverse (done the right way), is based on technology from the Dragon, and could record a 2 hour program for me.


 
 Ohh - the *joys* of analog recording. I started recording to analog cassette - and the most above royal size PITA was getting the info from musicians HOW LONG is their programme. You could ask any hot dog seller and get equaly competent answer ... - save for one bright exception ( in a decade ... ) . And damn tape would always
 end a couple of seconds before the end of the music - it was nerve racking experience, to say the least. Longingly remembered C-64 and C-45 tapes available once upon a time... Naka seems to have the best solution to this tape duration problem. 
  
 Fast Forward to 2014 - DSD recorders. Best of both worlds - sound next to indistigushable from best of (WELL calibrated/adjusted ) analog and convinience of digital.
 But I admit to use Korg MR-1 DSD recorder to record FM _*mostly*_ in - MP3. There is a show called European Classical Nocturno being broadcast from midnight to 6 in the morning - many interesting/new performers I discovered while listening to these MP3s later during daytime. But for serious recording I use DSD128 capability on Korg MR 1000.
  
 Digital audio has its own *joys* - with which I am at the moment fed to the neck. Therapy ?
  
 A recording session with absolutely ZERO digital - not even cell phone in sight ...


----------



## SpeakerBox

I like to keep as much digital stuff out of my music as possible - hate class D amps.  But am guessing I am in the minority.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> I like to keep as much digital stuff out of my music as possible - hate class D amps.  But am guessing I am in the minority.


 
 Heart is with you, mind overseeing the wallet has sometimes to make - ahem - "allowances" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 100% with you regarding class D amps. Better decent silence than crappy reproduction !


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is interesting that a while back even Jeff Rowland experimented with switching amps, and even more notable that he has since abandoned that effort.  I love the sound of my 20+ year old Rowland Model 1s (pure class A).


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> It is interesting that a while back even Jeff Rowland experimented with switching amps, and even more notable that he has since abandoned that effort.  I love the sound of my 20+ year old Rowland Model 1s (pure class A).


 
 Nothing like pure class A. Problem is heat ( comfy in the winter, useless in hot summer ) - and electricity is unfortunately no longer as inexpensive as it used to be.
 One can hardly be called "green" if running a class A power amp of any real world power.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Don't care if I am called green - just want good sound.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Don't care if I am called green - just want good sound.


 
 Fair enough !
  
 I mentioned because I have a couple of friends with Plinius 100w/ch class A jobs. These are switchable between AB and pure class A on the front panel - yet so far, I have never saw that class A typical mirage - pure class A really runs hot, hotter than comfortable to the touch. Usually lots of heatsinks.
  
 There is one amp that hides its 100 or so/ch class A very classy under its classy wood  box - Swiss Physics.
  
  

  
 You can see that preamp is physically larger than power amp - but that one really is wolf in sheep clothings. One of the few good implementations of heat pipe cooling in audio. Mirage guaranteed - no switching into anything less than pure class A.
 Had a chance to "live" with this combo for about a month - in 1990 at then Empire Switzerland, today Benz Micro Switzerland. 
  
 Vintage at its very best !


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice!


----------



## LugBug1

I'm back, after I finally got my internet sorted out..!  (thank you for the kind words guys. I've enjoyed catching up the 57 posts since I've been a way. Some really great stuff.)
  
 Been in my new house for nearly two weeks  I love it!!
  
 Now, I don't want anyone laughing at my 'temporary' living room set up here... It's hidden at the side of my sofa and behind wood doors! I'm good to my wife 
  

  

  
 And this is the view from my listening chair


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> I'm back, after I finally got my internet sorted out..!  (thank you for the kind words guys. I've enjoyed catching up the 57 posts since I've been a way. Some really great stuff.)
> 
> Been in my new house for nearly two weeks  I love it!!
> 
> ...


 
 Welcome back ! 
  
 Boy, does time fly - two weeks already ?
  
 Now, I see you have nice "room" for Carver Amazing Loudspeaker - outdoors !


----------



## moodyrn

Glad to see you back!!


----------



## MIKELAP

lugbug1 said:


> I'm back, after I finally got my internet sorted out..!  (thank you for the kind words guys. I've enjoyed catching up the 57 posts since I've been a way. Some really great stuff.)
> 
> Been in my new house for nearly two weeks  I love it!!
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice view but there's one thing that doesn't quite fit in this picture are you sure your still in the U.K. is it actually sunny lol !


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice stuff LugBug.


----------



## terry parr

would love to be able to give this piece a listen in person.   before seeing this vid, i had never heard of the yammy C-1 pre.  i think the guy in the vid has the C-1 hooked up to the "matching" power amp (the MX-2 ).   would be interested to hear what the h/p out on this piece sounds like, too.
  
  
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzfQJ9yNOIA&feature=player_detailpage
  
  
  
  
 nice-looking piece.
  
 notice at about 1:15, how the sound gets muddy when he cranks the "bass" (?) adjustment all the way to 5-o'clock.  it's hard to read what most of the adjustments are. most of the script on this piece of equipment is a blur.
  
 nice vid, though for someone like me who has never seen this particular yamaha piece before.
  
  
 notice he's using a Nakamichi cassette deck for playback.


----------



## Oregonian

Welcome back Lug Bug..........was wondering where you were! 

Report of an inbound Pioneer SA-9900 to arrive tomorrow............:eek:


----------



## LugBug1

Thank you guys! Thats great news Oregonian, you're sure wheeling in the Pioneers at the mo! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
@MIKELAP That was one hour of sunshine, out of 468 hours of rain we've just had..  (but its good for the garden!)


----------



## Oregonian

Well the beast has landed.  Picked up the SA-9900 from Doug over at Audio Specialties (he was doing his "tune up" on it after taking it in on trade) and when people say things were worth waiting for, usually as a cliche.  This was no cliche. 
  
 So I've been making the move towards all Pioneer lately.  My Spec system transition was finished off with the swap out of a PL-S50 turntable in place of the Yamaha (not that the Yamaha wasn't a fine unit) and system two was started last week with the SX-1050 I found on Craigslist.  My plan is this - get all high power units where possible with the goal of each having over 100 wpc.  It's not for any crazy notion that I'll actually use all the power but I'm a believer in having the extra power in reserve, with my personal experience having me feel that they do make a difference, mostly just in quality and depth of the sound. 
  
 Fast forward a week - Doug has a rack behind the main sales area for units that are on "police hold" for a month.  How it works - a guy sells him a receiver/amp and he has them fingerprinted, get all their addresses, check DL and the Portland PD are notified of the serial numbers.  Anyway, it's a guarantee to Doug that nothing he buys is hot and therefore we all can feel good about dealing with him.  So there sat the SA-9900, set to be released yesterday.  This is one of my dream amplifiers since I've been researching Pioneer high wattage receivers/amps.  It's 110 wpc into 8 ohms by the way, so it meets my goal.  I traded in one of my two Kenwood KA-5700 integrated amps (40 wpc with some sweet meters) so it lessened the cost for me and kept the wife off my back (I have my own rule that all vintage units have to be hooked up and being used <she likes the rule>, even if it's not every day).
  
 So I learned something very important today with getting this amp back home and hooked up in the garage system (fed by a HP netbook--->NuForce uDac2--->SA-9900--->Klipsch 3.2 walnut) about the value yet again of Deoxit.  Yes, I already knew about using it on scratchy volume pots, but Doug gives all amps/receivers a complete tune up as he calls it, with the usual stuff like aligning the tuner, set DC offset, etc.   He also takes apart all switches, cleans them all and to be honest, I am now a believer in going all the way after doing a side by side listen.  My SX-1050 sounded good and had no scratchiness, was immaculate inside and out, but I have to remember it is 38 years old.  So long story short (sorry guys) the SX-1050 is at his shop getting the tune up because of how the SA-9900 sounded when I fired it up with the above chain.  Holy crap, I could not believe the difference between the two units.  It's not possible to describe how much better, but it was so radical a difference it is like the SA-9900 sounds like my Spec 2 amp.   Enough of the boring talk - here's the vintage porn.


----------



## LugBug1

Congrats Oregonian, thats one serious beast of an amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Thats also a good point you've raised about taking all the parts out to clean. Deoxit can get things going again and of-course help to de-oxidise, but it probably won't dissolve dirt. A lot of time and patience needed to dissemble .... But the rewards!


----------



## Skylab

Wow it sure is! Congrats indeed!!!! Very nice.


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> Well the beast has landed.  Picked up the SA-9900 from Doug over at Audio Specialties (he was doing his "tune up" on it after taking it in on trade) and when people say things were worth waiting for, usually as a cliche.  This was no cliche.
> 
> So I've been making the move towards all Pioneer lately.  My Spec system transition was finished off with the swap out of a PL-S50 turntable in place of the Yamaha (not that the Yamaha wasn't a fine unit) and system two was started last week with the SX-1050 I found on Craigslist.  My plan is this - get all high power units where possible with the goal of each having over 100 wpc.  It's not for any crazy notion that I'll actually use all the power but I'm a believer in having the extra power in reserve, with my personal experience having me feel that they do make a difference, mostly just in quality and depth of the sound.
> 
> ...


 
 He he, one can talk, write, make measurements, produce graphs - you name it....
  
 Nothing like: ...holy crap...!   moment - after hearing side by side one vintage and another vintage piece of the same type overhauled like this one above.
  
 Congrats & - ENJOY !


----------



## SpeakerBox

A real beauty.  Will be interested to hear how it compares to the 1050 when you get it back.  I have a 1250 undergoing recap (albeit slowly).


----------



## derbigpr

Can I ask something? What is it about vintage amps and receivers that people like so much when it comes to driving headphones? I've never tried a vintage piece for headphones, but most Marantz and other older stuff I've heard with speakers sounded considerably worse than todays amplifiers,  so why do people assume that their headphone outputs sound better than todays intergrated amp or receiver headphone outs? I've tried plenty of new integrateds and receivers and they all seemed to have excellent headphone outputs, especially with high impedance headphones like the T1's, HD650's or DT880's.


----------



## Skylab

Two things. One, many if not most modern speaker amps do not derive the headphone output from the main power amplifier, but rather from a separate and often rather weak op-amp that's just to drive headphones. Vintage amps almost universally derive the headphone output from the main power amp, via a single dropping resistor. 

Second, I think most people here would very strongly disagree with your assessment that most modern amps sound better than vintage ones. Cheap vintage amps sound cheap. High end vintage amps sound high end, if they are in good working order, and can very often deliver more high end sound dollar for dollar than a modern amp, because cheap modern amps sound even worse than cheap vintage amps, IMO anyway.


----------



## LugBug1

Well said.
  
 Also, before the 80's hifi was more of a specialised hobby and this meant that they weren't as mass produced as they were later. With mass production, manufacturers inevitably have to cut corners to make money, so cheaper parts were used. If you know anything about components and how amplifiers work (even a little) take a look under the hood of a mid-price 70's Sansui, Pioneer for e.g and then compare it to a modern mid price amplifier (Marantz, Cambridge Audio) and there is no comparison with the parts used. 
  
 Op-amps are a fabulous invention and they certainly have a place in modern equipment, but there is nothing like a pure discrete sound to give you a more dynamic and natural sound imo.  
  
 You would have to pay well in 5 figures to get the same kind of quality you can get for even as low as 3 figures when buying vintage. 
  
 But with anything old, maintenance is required to restore these oldies to sound as good as new again, so never judge a vintage amp that hasn't been restored.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Certainly all vintage audio does not sound great, but most of the 70's Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, Sherwood are pretty good.  Why?  In my view it all comes down to the power supply.  Massive transformers and huge filter caps for energy storage.   After all, an amplifier is really just modulating the PS.  If the PS is not good - the sound won't be good either.  Most of the mass produced stuff out there now has light weight, cheap power supplies driving switching amps (my ears hurt just thinking about it).


----------



## terry parr

derbigpr said:


> I've tried plenty of new integrateds and receivers and they all seemed to have excellent headphone outputs, especially with high impedance headphones like the T1's, HD650's or DT880's."


 
 "plenty of the new integrateds and receivers have 'excellent' h/p outputs."  well, different opinions is what "makes a horserace", but c'mon.  i don't think you'll get majority agreement here with that statement.
  
 i think you might should have said "... in my opinion", just before using the word "excellent."  "excellent" is your subjective opinion.
  
 personally,i'm _still_ looking for an integrated with an "excellent" h/p out, vintage or new  (and you've heard _plenty_ of new ones with an "excellent" h/p out?)
  
  i'm not trying to be an ass, here.  i'm typing all this with a tongue-in-cheek attitude, and a wry smile on my face.   but, seriously:  list some of the new integrateds and receivers that you have found to be excellent.  (because one of those that you mention will probably be my next one!)


----------



## terry parr

derbigpr said:


> I've never tried a vintage piece for headphones, but


 
 i'm not picking on you, but i think you owe it to yourself to check out how the headphone output sounds out of some of the older amps and receivers.  you'll probably be surprised at how good some of them sound.
  
 reserve the "excellent" grade regarding h/p outs until you've widened your frame of reference a bit.
  
 in my experience, "excellent" instantly becomes "not bad" when a truly superior-sounding piece of gear comes along.
  
 as far as amps and receivers go (and the h/p output in them) i'm _still_ looking for a truly "head-and-shoulders-above-the-rest" piece, myself.  and that goes for vintage or new.


----------



## derbigpr

terry parr said:


> "plenty of the new integrateds and receivers have 'excellent' h/p outputs."  well, different opinions is what "makes a horserace", but c'mon.  i don't think you'll get majority agreement here with that statement.
> 
> i think you might should have said "... in my opinion", just before using the word "excellent."  "excellent" is your subjective opinion.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 Well, I did test out over 30 intergrated amplifiers and receivers with my T1's, and most of them sounded better than any of the <500 dollar headphone amps I've heard and had SIGNIFICANTLY more power as well, so I don't think I'm talking out of my ass. I just didn't try any old vintage ones and wonder what is it about them that makes them so good compared to new ones.  Of the ones that I found good....pretty much every Marantz, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Naim, Denon, Onkyo, etc., from entry level 400 dollar ones to higher end ones. I particularly remember the NAD 356BEE sounding very good, and some Naim (don't remember the model, but it was around 1500€) which actually made the T1's sound better than I've ever heard them sound before, incredibly smooth and effortless. With DT880 600 ohms and HD650's I  specifically A-B tested the Asus Xonar Essence One, Nuforce HDP and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus to several amps they had in the store, and they all sounded slightly to significantly better than those dedicated headamp/DAC's, for same money, that's why I ended up buying an Onkyo A-5VL some time ago, it was simply better for headphones than any headphone amp/DAC in the price range that I've tried, plus it drives speakers very well too. It literally made the Cambridge Audo DAC Magic Plus's headphone output sound like crap, without exaggerating. Totally thin, lifeless, harsh, no body, no soundstage, bright, etc. The only one that could hold it's own was the Essence One, but that had nowhere near as power as any of the integrated amps or receivers, and was actually priced higher than the Onkyo A-5VL. Now I have the Musical Fidelity M1HPAP as my main headphone amp, which costs twice as much as the Onkyo, but actually has far less power and only sounds marginally better. I literally have to A-B test them to find that MF sounds very slightly more airy and a bit tighter, but I'm really talking about a VERY small difference. Onkyo has an in-built DAC as well, which is actually better than the in-built one in the M1HPAP, so used with their internal DAC's, the gap between them actually goes in favor of the Onkyo. Also, MF M1 on full volume with T1's is on about the same level as the Onkyo on 40%, plus, with M1 there's a slight hiss at over 3 o'clock on the volume, while with Onkyo there is no hiss at all, not even at full volume.  The only disadvantage of the Onkyo is running the low impedance headphones, especailly IEMs which totally don't work at all, they sound like loose boomy mess. But anything harder to drive, even low impedance like K701's and Q701's works really well, and Sennheiser HD650 as well as all the Beyers work wonderfully and virtually as good as out of a much more expensive headphone amp.


----------



## derbigpr

terry parr said:


> i'm not picking on you, but i think you owe it to yourself to check out how the headphone output sounds out of some of the older amps and receivers.  you'll probably be surprised at how good some of them sound.
> 
> reserve the "excellent" grade regarding h/p outs until you've widened your frame of reference a bit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I've heard my T1's on some of the best headphone amps out there, tube and SS, including the Beyerdynamic A1, Violectrics, Lehmann BCL, several Bursons, several tube amps, etc. , so I don't think I can widen my frame of reference much more, since I pretty much know how they sound when powered by a high end amp and DAC, and I have a pretty good reference to be able to tell what sounds good and what doesn't. I've owned more than 10 various headphone amps in the last 2 years ranging from cheap to over 1000 dollar, as well as over 50 pairs of headphones, including all higher end Beyers, AKG's, Sennheisers (apart from HD800), etc., so I think my experience is big enough.
  
 " i'm _still_ looking for a truly "head-and-shoulders-above-the-rest" piece, myself" - I'm not looking for that. I'm just saying from my own experience, that I've never heard a, let's say <500€ headphone amp sound better than most <500€ integrated amps when used with high impedance headphones. Usually they're either so close that it's virtually impossible to tell them apart, or the integrated amp actually has an advantage. The point being, I'd rather pay for a 25 pound heavy piece of audio gear that can run 2 pairs of speakers + headphones than a small 1 pound plastic box with 15 dollars worth of components inside and a 500 dollar price tag, that might not sound any better, and in some cases worse. That's my point, and that's what I meant when I said that I think most new integrated amps and receivers have excellent headphone outputs, I didn't say that an entry level integrated amp will sound better than a high end headphone amp.


----------



## SpeakerBox

derbigpr said:


> The point being, *I'd rather pay for a 25 pound heavy piece of audio gear that can run 2 pairs of speakers + headphones* than a small 1 pound plastic box with 15 dollars worth of components inside and a 500 dollar price tag, that might not sound any better, and in some cases worse.


 
  
 That is pretty close to the description of a good vintage integrated or receiver.  One other comment to add - many of the vintage 70s pieces do require a recap to sound at their best - many of us in this forum either do it ourselves or pay for a refurb.  This will still let you come in cheaper than most of the good gear available today and will match or beat the sound.


----------



## LustLoveLuck

Hi I bought a vintage pioneer. Sx680 or something like that. My issue is that on the headphone out, it sounds like the sound is louder out of the right ear than the left. If I use the left, right attenuation and go to left or right sound only. Clearly, the left channel is 2-3x quieter than the right. 



Is there anything I can do to fix this?


----------



## LugBug1

lustloveluck said:


> Hi I bought a vintage pioneer. Sx680 or something like that. My issue is that on the headphone out, it sounds like the sound is louder out of the right ear than the left. If I use the left, right attenuation and go to left or right sound only. Clearly, the left channel is 2-3x quieter than the right.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything I can do to fix this?


 
 I would recommend spraying some Deoxit inside all of the pots and switches. It probably just needs a clean up  Theres loads of info how to do this on google - Audiokarma website


----------



## Oregonian

lugbug1 said:


> I would recommend spraying some Deoxit inside all of the pots and switches. It probably just needs a clean up  Theres loads of info how to do this on google - Audiokarma website


 

 Here ya go.............http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## terry parr

well, it sounds like_ i'm_ the one who may need to expand _my_ frame of reference a bit, compared to you.   if you have indeed listened to and evaluated the equipment that you listed, then it sounds like you _would_ have an very informed opinion on various h/p outs on the new integrated amps and receivers, compared to dedicated h/p amps and dacs.
  
  judging by your experience that you write of, your knowledge of the current crop of equipment regarding h/p amplification and modern dacs certainly exceeds my current knowledge. (by a considerable degree).      
  
   *my apologies, derbigpr.*
  
 and, thanks to your posting here, i'll be researching the Onkyo A-5VL.  i've never heard any Onkyo receiver or integrated, even though i've seen them and been aware of them for the past few years, at least.  looks like i'll be scheduling an audition pretty soon.
  
 you may have just improved my listening experience with that one suggestion, who knows?
  
 happy listening!


----------



## PhoenixG

Glad to see everyone is keeping it civil on here. As long as you like how your gear sounds, everyone gets to be in their happy place. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 And photos - post those too haha.
  
 Speaking of happy place, I've added a new receiver to my short list of amps of which I have no complaints about the sound. I've been listening to the sony str-6120 solid for about a week now and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about it. The amp is just flawless to listen to. Infinite depth to the bass, flawless mids and highs, good imaging, and really exceptional stereo separation on FM (weird thing to mention, I know, but it's noticeable and makes a difference to someone who likes FM [me]). This is my third addition to the list after a few mcintosh separates. Yes, I know - the 1980 didn't make the cut and it's annoying me too. Maybe after it gets back from the complete restore it'll make the list, but it's just not a 10 yet. I hope the fisher 800c will also make the cut after it gets sorted out. Once you add in features and aesthetics though, I'm still never letting the 1980 go. Ever. I'll just have to keep the sony too...
  
 Quick caveat, the sony has been lightly modded in the power supply to sort out what I think was a design shortfall. It's also been completely gone over, aligned and adjusted. I don't think it really changed the signature, but it probably makes a big difference compared to an unmodded and unserviced unit.
  
 edit: yes I know I've mentioned this piece before. It's been a long road getting it running and the longer I listen to it, the more I like it and I can't help but share.


----------



## captouch

I'm listening to a Sony STR-6055 now and it sounds great!  Very underrated units I've found.


----------



## PhoenixG

captouch said:


> I'm listening to a Sony STR-6055 now and it sounds great!  Very underrated units I've found.


 
 Very nice!! I had a 6065 that partially led me to look for the 6120. I gave the 6065 to a friend so he can have a nice unit. Bonus, I get to have a rig away from home.


----------



## ssrock64

phoenixg said:


> Glad to see everyone is keeping it civil on here. As long as you like how your gear sounds, everyone gets to be in their happy place.


 
 This is absolutely essential, and one reason why I love topic threads like this one instead of impressions threads and the like. Head-Fi has always been one of the most civil forums to go to online, but there's still some nastiness in other threads if you don't tread lightly. If you get in a way of a hype train, it can run you right over.


----------



## captouch

Haven't posted any pics lately, so here's some of the latest unit I just finished working on.
  
 Bought this on eBay as a parts/repair unit, really only for the wood case since I already had a 1060.  Turned out to be a champagne faced engraved model with a bad right channel.  So I sold my other 1060 and decided to repair and keep this one instead.
  
 With kind help from a knowledgeable AK'er, I repaired the bad channel, did a full recap, and enjoying it now.  Some pics:


----------



## LugBug1

Nice nice nice! ^^^^


----------



## jgreen16

lugbug1 said:


> Nice nice nice! ^^^^


 
 +1


----------



## MinedSafe

Very nice  
  
 I have some as well not as fancy as some people have here but still  
  
 Grundig V1700 
 Sansui AU-101 
  
 +1 To all vintage lovers


----------



## SpeakerBox

lustloveluck said:


> Hi I bought a vintage pioneer. Sx680 or something like that. My issue is that on the headphone out, it sounds like the sound is louder out of the right ear than the left. If I use the left, right attenuation and go to left or right sound only. Clearly, the left channel is 2-3x quieter than the right.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything I can do to fix this?


 
  
 The other issue I have seen causing this is a bad (or deteriorating) cap in the signal path.  Many of the old Sherwood receivers I have worked on demonstrated this problem.   Replace the cap and all is well.  You really need a scope to find it.  Checking signal on the input and output side of each cap until you hit the culprit.


----------



## Skylab

Nice work, Captouch! That's a beautiful Marantz. Congrats and enjoy!


----------



## MinedSafe

speakerbox said:


> The other issue I have seen causing this is a bad (or deteriorating) cap in the signal path.  Many of the old Sherwood receivers I have worked on demonstrated this problem.   Replace the cap and all is well.  You really need a scope to find it.  Checking signal on the input and output side of each cap until you hit the culprit.


 
 Most issues comes from pots and switches. First, recap then spray switches with electronic cleaner. If that doesn't help then by pass source switch. Check all cables and soldering points as well. If the problem is only on headphones then I would assume its the source switch. If amp has separate headphone amplifier then check this as well. Usually there are only 2 resistors. Unsolder and check them as well.


----------



## buson160man

matttcg said:


> Headed out to audition this today...
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully will come home with a new baby.


 

  Wow nice Yamaha 3020 those are rare.


----------



## Oregonian

captouch said:


> Haven't posted any pics lately, so here's some of the latest unit I just finished working on.
> 
> Bought this on eBay as a parts/repair unit, really only for the wood case since I already had a 1060.  Turned out to be a champagne faced engraved model with a bad right channel.  So I sold my other 1060 and decided to repair and keep this one instead.
> 
> With kind help from a knowledgeable AK'er, I repaired the bad channel, did a full recap, and enjoying it now.  Some pics:


 
 Gorgeous even to a Pioneer fanboy...................


----------



## .Sup

I got something too. Not as high end as most of you have but I am very happy. Brought from Serbia across two countries. There is lack of vintage here and what is is expensive. He just told me he also has a SA900 listed and soon a CR820.

This one is a 9.5 out of 10 condition with two very small marks on the wood. It doesn't say where its been made but all the knobs work. Dude had every possible switches in the opposite position to what I have it set now, everything is now practically on off (except for power which was initially set to "on" when I got it lol).  It has two headphone outs which will be great for comparisons, there is no hiss with HE-4 and hiss with HD800, I am guessing because of sensitivity. I get hiss with HE-4 if I turn volume to unlistenable levels. I didn't expect much but the sound is simply put great. Full, warmish sound, the opposite of dry, neutral and very technically advanced Auditor. Lights work, everything works! Primary use will be the orthos, I think at that time Yamaha had already made some nice orthos so the headphone outs should be very decent, thats what I was thinking when I was considering the amp and they are more than decent. Anyway here are two shots, the second one is with the CD-S1000 just to show how nicely they fit together.


----------



## Oregonian

.sup said:


> I got something too. Not as high end as most of you have but I am very happy. Brought from Serbia across two countries. There is lack of vintage here and what is is expensive. He just told me he also has a SA900 listed and soon a CR820.
> 
> This one is a 9.5 out of 10 condition with two very small marks on the wood. It doesn't say where its been made but all the knobs work. Dude had every possible switches in the opposite position to what I have it set now, everything is now practically on off (except for power which was initially set to "on" when I got it lol).
> 
> ...


 

 That's a beauty!  I love the Yamaha units...............with the adjustable loudness.  Does your's have that? 
  
 Beautiful!


----------



## .Sup

It does! Right click for full size.  And thanks for the compliment!

He had loudness set at about 6 o'clock, bass and treble at 1 and the sound was really yummy. I like the fact that I can play with knobs although I have set it to off right now and its so good.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Finished up the re-cap/re-solder of the stabilizer board from my SX-1250 last night.  Was a little nervous at power up, as I replaced 16 caps and re-soldered the whole board (the solder joints tend to crack from heating and cooling on this board thus necessitating a full re-solder).  It is considered to be the Achilles Heel of the Pioneer SX-1250.  I held my breath, fired it up, and it played beautifully.  I am glad it is done!  Next on the agenda are the two output amplifier boards.


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Finished up the re-cap/re-solder of the stabilizer board from my SX-1250 last night.  Was a little nervous at power up, as I replaced 16 caps and re-soldered the whole board (the solder joints tend to crack from heating and cooling on this board thus necessitating a full re-solder).  It is considered to be the Achilles Heel of the Pioneer SX-1250.  I held my breath, fired it up, and it played beautifully.  I am glad it is done!  Next on the agenda are the two output amplifier boards.


 
 Nice job - I wish I had the confidence to do that.


----------



## SpeakerBox

lugbug1 said:


> Nice job - I wish I had the confidence to do that.


 
  
 If you would have seen my face just before power up - you would not have described me as confident.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> If you would have seen my face just before power up - you would not have described me as confident.


 
 Before power up moments after a (major) repair or modification are anything but enjoyable. It is a mix of the most ambivalent feelings - combining in a tight knot, culminating when you hit the power switch.
  
 The most illustrative case I remember: in the late70s/early 80s, a friend then fellow student decided to build a then SOTA light show. Total cost of materials roughly 1000 German Marks ( about $ 500 ) - a humongous sum for a student back then, particularly in what used to be Yugoslavia. He was making his own PCBs, etc, etc - he was real careful regarding polarity of the parts, double/triple checking each and every capacitor or semiconductor for proper orientation - ad nuseaum. Then, when he had to attach the power suply, he got unexplicably hasty...
  
 You've guessed it - most of that money went up in smoke. He grew paler than the stone, we dared to utter absolutely nothing.
  
 Only his sister stoically commented: "  .... yet another victory of black magic over electronics...."  -


----------



## analogsurviver

.sup said:


> I got something too. Not as high end as most of you have but I am very happy. Brought from Serbia across two countries. There is lack of vintage here and what is is expensive. He just told me he also has a SA900 listed and soon a CR820.
> 
> This one is a 9.5 out of 10 condition with two very small marks on the wood. It doesn't say where its been made but all the knobs work. Dude had every possible switches in the opposite position to what I have it set now, everything is now practically on off (except for power which was initially set to "on" when I got it lol).
> 
> ...


 
 Lepo je srečati Kranjskega Janeza, ki so mu všeč resiverji 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 ( translation to the more usual language on head-fi:  " It is nice to meet ( Fritz = German, Tommy = British; > Kranjski Janez = Slovenian, etc ) who likes receivers " )


----------



## LugBug1

@*.Sup  *Pretty much every 70's amp I've tried with the HD800 displayed some hiss. Some more than others but never a completely black background. Thats one of the reasons why I favour NAD amps with the Senn's as they are totally silent. 
  
 It's a shame because I think the HD800 sound amazing out of 70's vintage especially the smooth tube-like Sansui flavour. I must stress this never totally spoilt my enjoyment using the Senn's, as only music that has silent gaps like classical for e.g is where I ended up focusing on it to the point of being distracted.
  
 But I'd still use a 70's vintage over any dedicated amp that I can afford. It's the body, dynamics and sweet treble that wins for me 
  
 (Nice Yamaha by the way!)


----------



## .Sup

analogsurviver said:


> Lepo je srečati Kranjskega Janeza, ki so mu všeč resiverji :atsmile: .
> 
> ( translation to the more usual language on head-fi:  " It is nice to meet ( Fritz = German, Tommy = British; > Kranjski Janez = Slovenian, etc ) who likes receivers " )








lugbug1 said:


> @*.Sup  *Pretty much every 70's amp I've tried with the HD800 displayed some hiss. Some more than others but never a completely black background. Thats one of the reasons why I favour NAD amps with the Senn's as they are totally silent.
> 
> It's a shame because I think the HD800 sound amazing out of 70's vintage especially the smooth tube-like Sansui flavour. I must stress this never totally spoilt my enjoyment using the Senn's, as only music that has silent gaps like classical for e.g is where I ended up focusing on it to the point of being distracted.
> 
> ...




Bugz I have been eyeing this for a while: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191107027229?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The condition seems really great but the price with sipping not so much. Still helluva cheaper than a dedicated if its that good.
The hiss with my Yammy is pretty bad with HD800 but primary intention was always the orthos. I can drive both HE-500 and HE-4 at the same time at volume knob at 8 o'clock without there being any drop in power.
And thanks for the compliment!


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> Before power up moments after a (major) repair or modification are anything but enjoyable. It is a mix of the most ambivalent feelings - combining in a tight knot, culminating when you hit the power switch.


 
  
 Yes, that about sums up how I felt (oh ya also had the impending doom feeling too).  After I realized everything was OK, I was quite happy from that point on


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> Bugz I have been eyeing this for a while: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191107027229?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> The condition seems really great but the price with sipping not so much. Still helluva cheaper than a dedicated if its that good.
> The hiss with my Yammy is pretty bad with HD800 but primary intention was always the orthos. I can drive both HE-500 and HE-4 at the same time at volume knob at 8 o'clock without there being any drop in power.
> And thanks for the compliment!


 
 That NAD will be great, but the price is a little high. I would look to pay £70-80 for good condition. £100-120 for a timewarper. But compared to a dedicated hp amp its still very cheap. I'm not the only one to think that NAD's make great headphone amps... So if thats the best NAD you can find then I'd say go for it.
  
 Keep your eye out for a 3020 (e or i) or 7130 - 3130 as well. The very early classic 3020 will always need some work done as they are from 1979. But thats next on my list.


----------



## Argybargy

lugbug1 said:


> @*.Sup  *Pretty much every 70's amp I've tried with the HD800 displayed some hiss. Some more than others but never a completely black background. Thats one of the reasons why I favour NAD amps with the Senn's as they are totally silent.
> 
> It's a shame because I think the HD800 sound amazing out of 70's vintage especially the smooth tube-like Sansui flavour. I must stress this never totally spoilt my enjoyment using the Senn's, as only music that has silent gaps like classical for e.g is where I ended up focusing on it to the point of being distracted.
> 
> ...




Interesting LugBug. What do you think is different about the NADs that makes them quiet with sensitive phones?


----------



## Magick Man

argybargy said:


> Interesting LugBug. What do you think is different about the NADs that makes them quiet with sensitive phones?




They have such a pitch black, black background due to extremely low THD numbers and high damping factor, even compared to today's high-end dedicated HP amps*. The 3225PE, I have one, is even good with IEMs, a true rarity in vintage IAs and receivers. It's my go-to amp at work now, and I even prefer it over a Schiit Mjolnir, if that says anything. :eek: Incredible for something I paid <$100 for (that price included a partial recap). It doesn't drive my HE-6s especially well out of its HP-out, but straight from the speaker taps they work great. My silver 3020a is even better, with more dynamic range and lower transients, yielding faster output response. It's amazing for critical listening and goes toe-to-toe with my Antelope Zodiac Gold's amp, and even exceeds it slightly overall. *Zodiac Gold > 3020a > LCD-X is about as close to sonic bliss as you can get in Head-Fi*, short of dropping 15Gs on a premier stat rig, IMO.




(*Always leave NADs on "Low Level" when using headphones, *always*. There's too much noise, otherwise.)


----------



## Argybargy

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation Magickman.. I'll have to try one out one of these days.


----------



## LugBug1

Yup what Magick Man said


----------



## ssrock64

I've seen some NAD gear for sale in the past, but I can never get any idea of which ones are the good ones. They all look so nondescript.


----------



## gikigill

Dammit, now I have to get a couple of NAD vintage amps. Missed out on a Model 60.


----------



## SpeakerBox

NAD gear sounds wonderful (I have an M15), but you have to be careful with system matching as they can sound dark.  In my case I am driving Rowland amps which has turned out to be a less than perfect match as they are also dark.  I have compensated by using silver interconnects and speaker cable along with Morel dome tweeters with level controls.  Sounds real nice now, but took a while to tune things in.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well, who knew that a power supply (power stabilizer board provides +- 65V to the amps) restore could make so much difference in the sound of an SX-1250.  It seemed to be working fine, no issues were apparent - but after the re-cap and re-solder (used WBT 4% silver solder) the sound of the 1250 has changed radically (for the better).  Improved clarity, detail, and imaging and much greater definition in the lows.  Very pleased as I was not sure until yesterday that I liked this receiver.  In addition to the caps and solder, I also completely cleaned the board and components of dust and dirt and cleaned the pins.  Still have to do the phono, tuner, and amplifier boards so can't imagine how good it will sound after that.  Here is the finished product:
  
  

  

  
 Happy guy here


----------



## Xenophon

Nice!  Enjoy!  This is -one of many- projects I still need to do with my SX-1980.  Everything works and I know the adage of not trying to fix things then but some of those caps need changing and after extended listening I get occasional dropouts on one channel so I guess it must be a solder joint or a resistor or....
  
 Time...the most precious commodity


----------



## SpeakerBox

Wow, must be nice having a 1980.  Good luck with the upgrades.  The key is taking your time.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Well, who knew that a power supply (power stabilizer board provides +- 65V to the amps) restore could make so much difference in the sound of an SX-1250.  It seemed to be working fine, no issues were apparent - but after the re-cap and re-solder (used WBT 4% silver solder) the sound of the 1250 has changed radically (for the better).  Improved clarity, detail, and imaging and much greater definition in the lows.  Very pleased as I was not sure until yesterday that I liked this receiver.  In addition to the caps and solder, I also completely cleaned the board and components of dust and dirt and cleaned the pins.  Still have to do the phono, tuner, and amplifier boards so can't imagine how good it will sound after that.  Here is the finished product:




I wish that even more people got to experience this. The difference between the SX-1980's I have had when stock versus my two fully restored ones are not subtle. These vintage units sound MUCH better when all their aging caps are replaced with new ones that meet the original spec. Indeed, my opinion is that this is the only way one gets to hear these units perform as they originally did back when new.


----------



## SpeakerBox

You could not be more correct, Skylab.


----------



## joehalo

I'm hoping to have mattsd from audiokarma restore my SX-1980. Is he the same guy who did yours Skylab?


----------



## Skylab

Yup. Matt did an awesome job. I'm listening to that SX-1980 right now...sounds incredible. Matt does great work and is a great guy.


----------



## PhoenixG

I have mine in a box right now awaiting confirmation from him to ship. Looking forward to it.


----------



## .Sup

A yummy Yammy shot after working for hours to add the third middle shelf to the rack. Originally there was a thin perforated shelf that bent if you put on anything that outweighs 2 kg.


----------



## Rossliew

That's a nice Yammy there!
  
 Can anyone advice if it a Yamaha CA-1010 has a good sounding headphone out? There is a unit here being refurbished that will sell for about $600 once its done up. Is this a fair price?


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> That's a nice Yammy there!
> 
> Can anyone advice if it a Yamaha CA-1010 has a good sounding headphone out? There is a unit here being refurbished that will sell for about $600 once its done up. Is this a fair price?


 
 Haven't heard that model but it does have a 20db mute which is always good for hp use. It also depends on what hp's you are going to be using. In general hp's that require lots of power will sound good with good vintage amps. Planars, AKG flagships for e.g. Highly sensitive can's such as Sennheiser's flagships can display hiss.  
  
 But as a general rule with these older amps. If it sounds good with speakers and is a highly regarded amp - it will sound good through the hp out, because you are using the same power source apart from resistors. 
  
 As far as the price of that Yammy is...  hmmm maybe a little high? I would expect a full recap etc.


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> A yummy Yammy shot after working for hours to add the third middle shelf to the rack. Originally there was a thin perforated shelf that bent if you put on anything that outweighs 2 kg.


 
 Nice work! Thats a cool looking set up Sup


----------



## Oregonian

Happy Father's Day gents..................


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Happy Father's Day gents..................


----------



## .Sup

lugbug1 said:


> Nice work! Thats a cool looking set up Sup



Thanks man!


----------



## buson160man

Well you can add me to the long list of monster receiver owners. I just bought a concept 16.5 receiver that has been recapped. I went down to the local stereo emporium and auditioned it this afternoon. My initial impression was mixed but after the unit warmed up sufficiently a lot of my reservations were banished. The concept is a 67 pound beast with a dual mono power supply . The power on tap is 165 watts rms for 8 ohm speakers. I am buying it to power my audeze lcd2 v2 phones. Once the concept warmed up the audezes sounded just marvelous. There is way more power that is available on tap. I could not comfortably listen past the 9  o clock position on the volume control with the lcd2 v2s. The receiver really makes them sing like no headphone amp I have heard them on. The only other dedicated headphone amp I have heard that came close is perhaps the dark star. I imagine some of the other monster receivers can compete with the concept but these babies are getting more and more rare theses days. Especially ones that you can actually listen to in the flesh before you buy them. and not just a whim of chance off the internet. There of course are even more powerful ones out there but a lot of them are becoming astronomically priced these days. But at least I can afford this little piece of heaven. I will try to make some more comments about its sound when I get some extensive listening in which I definitely will be doing.


----------



## buson160man

captouch said:


> Haven't posted any pics lately, so here's some of the latest unit I just finished working on.
> 
> Bought this on eBay as a parts/repair unit, really only for the wood case since I already had a 1060.  Turned out to be a champagne faced engraved model with a bad right channel.  So I sold my other 1060 and decided to repair and keep this one instead.
> 
> With kind help from a knowledgeable AK'er, I repaired the bad channel, did a full recap, and enjoying it now.  Some pics:


 
 man those old Marantz integrated really look pretty don't they


----------



## buson160man

captouch said:


> Haven't posted any pics lately, so here's some of the latest unit I just finished working on.
> 
> Bought this on eBay as a parts/repair unit, really only for the wood case since I already had a 1060.  Turned out to be a champagne faced engraved model with a bad right channel.  So I sold my other 1060 and decided to repair and keep this one instead.
> 
> With kind help from a knowledgeable AK'er, I repaired the bad channel, did a full recap, and enjoying it now.  Some pics:


 
 man those old Marantz integrated amps really look pretty


----------



## captouch

buson160man said:


> man those old Marantz integrated really look pretty don't they




Yeah, they really are. I've largely transitioned to tubes lately, and this one was sitting around waiting to be repaired and recapped. Once I got it up and running and all put together in the case, I really like it a lot, both sonically and aesthetically. Probably will use this in the warmer months and rotate the tubes in when it's cooler. Not that we get huge extremes in the Bay Area, but a good excuse to keep them all!


----------



## SpeakerBox

buson160man said:


> Well you can add me to the long list of monster receiver owners. I just bought a concept 16.5 receiver that has been recapped.


 
  
 Nice score.  This receiver is on my short list too.  I believe the now, Parasound founder, designed these and still collects them for himself.


----------



## Rossliew

lugbug1 said:


> Haven't heard that model but it does have a 20db mute which is always good for hp use. It also depends on what hp's you are going to be using. In general hp's that require lots of power will sound good with good vintage amps. Planars, AKG flagships for e.g. Highly sensitive can's such as Sennheiser's flagships can display hiss.
> 
> But as a general rule with these older amps. If it sounds good with speakers and is a highly regarded amp - it will sound good through the hp out, because you are using the same power source apart from resistors.
> 
> As far as the price of that Yammy is...  hmmm maybe a little high? I would expect a full recap etc.




Was thinking of using it with the XC. Being a pair of sensitive cans, i can expect hiss..hmm, not too good a pairing i would think. I recalled horrible hissing when i used the HD650 with a Pioneer SX-1280 previously. Not nice.


----------



## Skylab

buson160man said:


> Well you can add me to the long list of monster receiver owners. I just bought a concept 16.5 receiver that has been recapped.




Congrats man! Now...WE NEED PICS!!!!


----------



## buson160man

speakerbox said:


> Nice score.  This receiver is on my short list too.  I believe the now, Parasound founder, designed these and still collects them for himself.


 

  I had read that myself. I did some research on the internet about  this receiver this week. I was looking for a vintage receiver this week after reading about how good vintage receivers can sound with headphones. I was visiting a local stereo emporium in our area and was checking out what they had on hand on their used shelves. I did not see any really ambitious looking models on display. I talked with one of the salesman letting them know what I was looking for and he mentioned that they had a used concept 16.5 receiver they were checking out for possible purchase to sell in their store. I told the salesman that if they did purchase the unit to give me first dibs to purchase the unit. I left my telephone number and name with the salesman. A few days later I made a follow up call and gave them my name and number again. Well last Saturday they called me and mentioned they had indeed purchased the unit. They gave me the chance to hear it first. They mentioned that they were giving me first crack at purchasing it for 999 usd. I had checked the pricing out before when I did my internet research and that was the starting price at which a unit in good condition was going for. They said if they were to sell on the net they were with listing , boxing and shipping they would probably ask 1300 usd for the unit.
     Well I went to hear the unit yesterday bringing my audeze lcd2 v2 with to listen to it. The reason I was interested was because I was looking for a more capable amp to get the best out of the lcd2s. I was also considering the schiit mjolner which I heard for the first time at the axpona show in Chicago, It sounded pretty good with the lcd3 at the show. But I would have had to get the balanced cable from audeze to use it with the mjolner. Though at 80 usd that is not outrageous when you consider the aftermarket alternatives.
    But getting back to the concept. I went to listen to it yesterday. At first I was a bit disappointed the unit sounded  rather flat and two dimensional but after listening for a few cds things finally started sounding pretty decent. The salesman switched to speakers for a bit to demo what the unit could do driving speakers. Wow this unit really sounded very good with the kef speakers he had hooked up. With more play time the unit kept getting better and better sounding.
    I switched back to my audeze lcd2s and now the sound was much better the lcd2s played with an authority I have not heard from them.
 The phones were also more dimensional as well. I liked what I heard and decided to purchase the unit.
    I am really curious about how the lcd2s will sound in my set up. with the concept 16.5 receiver.
   I have to say I was amazed at how good the receiver sounded with the kef speakers. The sound was very open and beyond the speakers outward boundaries. The sound also seemed to have excellent height as well. I was pleased to hear that the unit had been recapped by the owner so I can use it as is for now. I may investigate if there are any sensible capacitor upgrades that might give me even higher performance in the future.
    I am having the unit delivered Tuesday. The unit is quite bulky and I thought I would give my back a break and have the receiver delivered
  I will be making comments about the unit as I explore its capabilities in my set up.


----------



## SpeakerBox

As for electrolytic capacitors that improve the sound - Nichicon Gold Tunes, Elna Silmic II, and if you can find them (and afford them) Blackgate.  I used Blackgates throughout my restored Kenwood KT 7550 with incredible results.  Of course all small electrolytic caps should be replaced with film where ever possible.
  
 I sympathize on the weight issue.  Every time I move my 1250 from the listening area to my bench for upgrades I almost break my back or pull some muscle somewhere, but it has been worth it.


----------



## Magick Man

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Accuphase-E-202-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-Serviced-Excellent-Condition-/201093248850?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2ed2177752

Someone here buy that before I do, I don't need any more vintage IAs taking up space.


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> Was thinking of using it with the XC. Being a pair of sensitive cans, i can expect hiss..hmm, not too good a pairing i would think. I recalled horrible hissing when i used the HD650 with a Pioneer SX-1280 previously. Not nice.


 
 I honestly don't think you will get hiss with any planars and a good working vintage amp. As they are not as sensitive as normal dynamics and aren't affected the same way by impedance curves. Audeze will be fine


----------



## Seamaster

Everyone, I am new to the vintage stuffs. I just bought my first vintage gears, a pair of Sony TA2000F and TA3200F off daBay. The owner said he bought them in the 70s when they were new and kept them in "like new" condition. I think I overpaid them at $1001 USD for the pair. The pair showed up in the original boxes with all the manuals that included service manuals, original cables, etc. just like you just bought them from the store. Since they are my first adventure to vintage audio, I did not know what to expect, such as the speaker terminals do not take modern connectors so I have to order adapters for them. I could not hook them up to compare them to my Mac right now but I did a quick test with my headphones from the HP out. It is a typical old design, the HP out put at 110 Ohm even thougth amp's damping factor is at 170 (my Mac is 40). There are scratchy sound at extreme frequencies from HP out. I hope they sound clean from speakers. Here are some pictures:
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
 They look very clean for old gears. Can someone tell were they recapped or all original?


----------



## PhoenixG

Those ELNA caps are all original. I think you got a time warp piece. That is the cleanest sony I have ever seen, as if there were ZERO hours. Amazing! Once you clean everything out with deoxit, I think you will really enjoy it. I have similar vintage Sony units (4 or five at this point) and my absolute favorite is the STR-6120. It is every bit as good as my mcintosh gear, just slightly less power. The other ones are almost on the same level. Congrats, also, let's see that mac!
 Get some deoxit and get in there. 



 P.S. I think yours is cleaner than mine


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> As for electrolytic capacitors that improve the sound - Nichicon Gold Tunes, Elna Silmic II, and if you can find them (and afford them) Blackgate.  I used Blackgates throughout my restored Kenwood KT 7550 with incredible results.  Of course all small electrolytic caps should be replaced with film where ever possible.
> 
> I sympathize on the weight issue.  Every time I move my 1250 from the listening area to my bench for upgrades I almost break my back or pull some muscle somewhere, but it has been worth it.


 
 I concur with most of the above - except Blackgate caps. I have heard horror stories regarding long term ( just a few years... <5 ) reliability of these caps - some of them went to eternal hounting grounds much sooner than expected ! 
  
 "Any" modern freshly produced electrolytic capacitor from your around-the-corner electronic parts shop was an "upgrade" to those iffy Blackgates - at the price, they should last at least half as much as those originally fitted in the vintage gear. In general, the progress in electronics parts is quite real over say last 30 or so years in capacitors; now they are either/or/and smaller for given capacitance, pack much more capacitance in the same volume, can run at higher temperatures, are more reliable, offer less parasitic electrical characteristics - in short, offer better performance.


----------



## Oregonian

seamaster said:


> Everyone, I am new to the vintage stuffs. I just bought my first vintage gears, a pair of Sony TA2000F and TA3200F off daBay. The owner said he bought them in the 70s when they were new and kept them in "like new" condition. I think I overpaid them at $1001 USD for the pair. The pair showed up in the original boxes with all the manuals that included service manuals, original cables, etc. just like you just bought them from the store. Since they are my first adventure to vintage audio, I did not know what to expect, such as the speaker terminals do not take modern connectors so I have to order adapters for them. I could not hook them up to compare them to my Mac right now but I did a quick test with my headphones from the HP out. It is a typical old design, the HP out put at 110 Ohm even thougth amp's damping factor is at 170 (my Mac is 40). There are scratchy sound at extreme frequencies from HP out. I hope they sound clean from speakers. Here are some pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  THAT is an understatement.  They look NEW. 
  
 Gorgeous stuff - congrats and welcome to the vintage thread.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yup, definitely original Elna caps.  Beautiful condition.  Nice find.


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> I concur with most of the above - except Blackgate caps. I have heard horror stories regarding long term ( just a few years... <5 ) reliability of these caps - some of them went to eternal hounting grounds much sooner than expected !
> 
> "Any" modern freshly produced electrolytic capacitor from your around-the-corner electronic parts shop was an "upgrade" to those iffy Blackgates - at the price, they should last at least half as much as those originally fitted in the vintage gear. In general, the progress in electronics parts is quite real over say last 30 or so years in capacitors; now they are either/or/and smaller for given capacitance, pack much more capacitance in the same volume, can run at higher temperatures, are more reliable, offer less parasitic electrical characteristics - in short, offer better performance.


 
  
 Well, it has been at least 5 years now and the tuner still sounds incredible.  Upon installing them there was an immediate (and huge) improvement in its sound.  The Blackgate refurb was actually recommended at fmtunerinfo and has, at least for me, worked out well.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Well, it has been at least 5 years now and the tuner still sounds incredible.  Upon installing them there was an immediate (and huge) improvement in its sound.  The Blackgate refurb was actually recommended at fmtunerinfo and has, at least for me, worked out well.


 
 Great to hear the opposite regarding Blackgate - enjoy while it lasts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## SpeakerBox

analogsurviver said:


> Great to hear the opposite regarding Blackgate - enjoy while it lasts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just did a double check over at fmtunerinfo.com and they are still recommending them. Either they are unaware of the issue or it may be overblown.  Either way, you may want to let them know what your experience has been with them.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Just did a double check over at fmtunerinfo.com and they are still recommending them. Either they are unaware of the issue or it may be overblown.  Either way, you may want to let them know what your experience has been with them.


 
 It could have been a batch problem - and certainly hope not some fake problem. But a dry electrolytic capacitor is a dry electrolytic capacitor.
  
 Be it as it may, I FAR prefer film caps and use them whenever there is a mildest chance for them to fit to the volume available. That goes usually up to 47 uF, ocassionally streeeetching that to 100 or so uF. Trouble is, any PCB borded by film caps of these value in any normal quantity required is going to look extremely untidy - so no
 XXXXXXX rated capacitor porn
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (TM, copyright, etc by aS ) pics. 
  
 The pictures of the Sony right out of time warp machine are simply too *tidy *- no way film caps can be used to look anything as neat - unless the whole PCB is redesigned for them. 
  
 I did stumble upon similar time warp machine - a Technics ST-9030 tuner that was sooo new there were absolutely no marks in its "FM scale light system" due to lamps that leave a "scorch" mark after only a couple hours of operation on the screen surrounding them. Reason ? Failed on/off switch - which is burried so clumsily one has to dismantle everything to gain access to be able to replace that switch. Rather to butcher everything, I short circuited the failed switch and placed a night lamp type switch to the power cable - "and it was living happily ever after" - practically the first time for any apreciable amount of time after being manufactured in late 70s.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Ya, got some big films in my tuner too.


----------



## Seamaster

I am waiting on a set of banana to pin adapters and a pair of RCA cable because my current system is balanced. I did test the preamp with my headphones, it sound little scratchy on extreme frequencies. I may needs to replace those electrolytic capacitors and get a new volume pot like tkd volume pot (or maybe something better). What do you guys think?
  
 As for the electrolytic caps in my 3200F (8000uf 80v x2), which cap should I get? I am thinking Mundrof or Epcos. Those two has the best spec.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Ya, got some big films in my tuner too.


 
 I actually managed to get by completely without the use of electrolytic capacitors in one device - the amp for the Stax SR001MK2 electrostatic in ear headphones. Only for the experiment, as permanent version would require the place for the batteries to be usurped for the bigger capacitors, some chopping of the box, etc.
  
 But one day, I will do it permanently. I remember my producer to comment while listening to the masters just recorded the previous day :
  
 ".... _*this *_sounds sooo alive, so pulsating - totally unlike recording/reproduction, music is really like that in real life!"


----------



## PhoenixG

seamaster said:


> I am waiting on a set of banana to pin adapters and a pair of RCA cable because my current system is balanced. I did test the preamp with my headphones, it sound little scratchy on extreme frequencies. I may needs to replace those electrolytic capacitors and get a new volume pot like tkd volume pot (or maybe something better). What do you guys think?
> 
> As for the electrolytic caps in my 3200F (8000uf 80v x2), which cap should I get? I am thinking Mundrof or Epcos. Those two has the best spec.


 
 Hey there, if I had to throw a guess, the volume pot in there is probably milspec and will be better than anything else you can put in there. The build quality on those Sony's is usually amazing. It is completely normal to have some scratchiness on old units. The first course of action is to clean out all the pots and switches with deoxit. If that doesn't do the trick, then maybe think more intrusive. Look through the last week or so and I'm sure you'll find a link to the deoxit for dummies link.


----------



## .Sup

phoenixg said:


> Hey there, if I had to throw a guess, the volume pot in there is probably milspec and will be better than anything else you can put in there. The build quality on those Sony's is usually amazing. It is completely normal to have some scratchiness on old units. The first course of action is to clean out all the pots and switches with deoxit. If that doesn't do the trick, then maybe think more intrusive. Look through the last week or so and I'm sure you'll find a link to the deoxit for dummies link.


What does cleaning pots with Deoxit do? I don't have any hiss or anything. Should I clean mine with it anyway?


----------



## PhoenixG

If you're not having any issues, then you don't need to mess with anything.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> Hey there, if I had to throw a guess, the volume pot in there is probably milspec and will be better than anything else you can put in there. The build quality on those Sony's is usually amazing. It is completely normal to have some scratchiness on old units. *The first course of action is to clean out all the pots and switches with deoxit.* If that doesn't do the trick, then maybe think more intrusive. Look through the last week or so and I'm sure you'll find a link to the deoxit for dummies link.


 

 And here's how.............http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## SpeakerBox

seamaster said:


> As for the electrolytic caps in my 3200F (8000uf 80v x2), which cap should I get? I am thinking Mundrof or Epcos. Those two has the best spec.


 
  
 Could get expensive with Mundorf.


----------



## Seamaster

I thought the volume pot is the weak link for this model. I looked inside of mine, I was not impressed by the volume pot that is very small and looks pretty weak.


----------



## SpeakerBox

As long as the volume works correctly after a good DeoxIt blast, that would be the last thing I would worry about.


----------



## Oregonian

Guys,
  
 Back a couple of weeks ago I mentioned I had found a Pioneer SX-1050 in pristine shape (walnut looks new) and was giving it to my local tech for a tune up (tuner alignment, deoxit, DC offset adjust, etc).  Got it back last night...............and as you all said and I suspected, it made a world of difference.  Worth the $95 he charges for the service. 
  
 Liked it so much I hooked up my HE-6 (new to me) to the speaker taps via the HiFiMan box and proceeded to blow a driver...............


----------



## Seamaster

OK, I blasted the unit with good amount of deoxit gold which has little bit of cleaning action because I don't have the red one handy.  I worked switch few dozen times and waited 20 min for deoxit to settle down, then I left the unit on overnight. This morning I gave a quick listen, hum... I notic someone (stupid me) turned MIC mix. So I truned it to "Mix Off" and hit the start. Wow, not only no more noise, the sound is just warm, detailed, powerful and with good dynamic from the headphone out. The HP output beat my MA6900 flat out. I can tell the PHO rivals many today's good HP amps. I finally have smile on my face!


----------



## LugBug1

oregonian said:


> Guys,
> 
> Back a couple of weeks ago I mentioned I had found a Pioneer SX-1050 in pristine shape (walnut looks new) and was giving it to my local tech for a tune up (tuner alignment, deoxit, DC offset adjust, etc).  Got it back last night...............and as you all said and I suspected, it made a world of difference.  Worth the $95 he charges for the service.
> 
> Liked it so much I hooked up my HE-6 (new to me) to the speaker taps via the HiFiMan box and proceeded to blow a driver...............


 
 Uh Ohhh...  Sorry to hear that bud  
  
 Have you got warranty for the HE-6? I thought those hifiman's could handle anything... Obviously not vintage power!


----------



## Seamaster

Maybe your pioneer has too much current rush out


----------



## Skylab

Sorry to hear that, man. FWIW I would use the HE-6 from the headphone out of a 1050. Should be plenty of power.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, missed a few days and I have missed a lot; concepts, sony separates etc. Great stuff guys. That concept is probably on a lot of people short list. That was an incredible find. The sony setup just looks stunning!
  
 Oregonian I'm really sorry to hear that about you he-6. As I've said many times before, the higher end pioneers have the most power headphone outs of all the gear I've had. Driving cans from the headphone out is almost like driving them from the speaker taps. Hifiman have been know to do free repairs with out of warranty he-6, so I hope they will do the same for you if yours are out our warranty.


----------



## PhoenixG

seamaster said:


> OK, I blasted the unit with good amount of deoxit gold which has little bit of cleaning action because I don't have the red one handy.  I worked switch few dozen times and waited 20 min for deoxit to settle down, then I left the unit on overnight. This morning I gave a quick listen, hum... I notic someone (stupid me) turned MIC mix. So I truned it to "Mix Off" and hit the start. Wow, not only no more noise, the sound is just warm, detailed, powerful and with good dynamic from the headphone out. The HP output beat my MA6900 flat out. I can tell the PHO rivals many today's good HP amps. I finally have smile on my face!


 
 Happy to hear it!
 I'm glad you reached for the aspirin (deoxit) before the brain surgery for your little headache.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Impressions when you get the chance, and welcome to the vintage club!


----------



## Seamaster

phoenixg said:


> Happy to hear it!
> I'm glad you reached for the aspirin (deoxit) before the brain surgery for your little headache.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 For real. 
  
  
 I did some more interesting test today. I was trying to find out if the noise is really gone, so plugged in my Shure SE846 IEM in!!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Silent!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I put music on pause, and I increased the volume pot from normal listening level 10:30 (I like loud by the way) to 3:00 pm, nothing! Wow. But I did not try to max out because I have a 2-year-old son, I am afraid he is going to bump into me and my ears are done. The preamp's max volume is about 5:00pm
  
 Those bass and treble adjustment are very handy for difference sources of music. As whole, the amp is warmer than neutral, and a hair thicker than neutral. The transparency and effortlessness is amazing. Dynamic is not as quick as other modern amp I heard such as Pass Lab 250. But for a vintage piece, the naturalness and musicality is remarkable. All these good qualities are just came out the PHO, too bad amps don't have nice HPO like this anymore now days. The bass is very muscular but not very fast, I don't have problem with music transition though. Orchestra has very good sense of scale and dynamic at louder level. Female vocal is very attractive and male vocal has correct tonal balanced. Sony got both right, not bad. The amp is nothing like people complain about vintage amps, overly warm, fat bass, dark sounding, etc. The amp has very good even balance across the frequencies with a hair airiness on the top, nicely touch-up the sound. The amp somehow outputs according to headphone load, as I was expecting  the volume will get loud very quick with sensitive IEM, I was wrong, the Shure just has about one o;clock more than my AKG K271s 55 Ohm load at about 10:00 o'clock. The UV meter show the output difference too. I had the AKG for about 12 years now, so I know the sound very well. I don't have other headphones to test as I sold them all LCD-2, HD650, and T1. The amp WILL adds more body to the sound, so LCDs are not recommend here. So far the price to performance ratio has blown out of the window for this amp.
  
 Here is my question, all your vintage amps HPO are nice too? Which is the best one for HPO?


----------



## Skylab

The headphone out on my Pioneer SX-1980 is so good that I no longer own a single dedicated headphone amp. Not one. I'm still reviewing them for InnerFidelity, and so there are usually one or two here, but they are review loaners. For my own use, I actually PREFER to use the SX-1980. You put it very well - there is a transparency and effortlessness that is hard to imagine.


----------



## Oregonian

Wait.............there are dedicated headphone amps available?


----------



## Seamaster

This thread is going to jack up the price of vintage gears, you just watch. Start with Pioneer SX-1980. The trend is like 6SN7, 6F8G, and GEC 6AS7... Especially the GEC 6AS7 as I got them for $50 a pair years ago, I thought was very expensive.


----------



## PhoenixG

seamaster said:


> This thread is going to jack up the price of vintage gears, you just watch. Start with Pioneer SX-1980. The trend is like 6SN7, 6F8G, and GEC 6AS7... Especially the GEC 6AS7 as I got them for $50 a pair years ago, I thought was very expensive.


 
 Well, a lot of the vintage gear prices are already fairly high. It takes a lot of luck and patience to find and 1980 for less than $2k anymore. I really enjoy hunting for the deals though, and do love when I find them. And I think you're talking about tubes with those part numbers. I've got two distinct tube-based headaches running right now, but that's a frustrating set of stories better shared over a pint haha.
  
 Good news on other fronts though: I've found a nice piece at a score price and am firing up the minivan to pick it up this weekend. Only known problem is that the *ahem* _blue meters_ are wonky, and the wood case can use some TLC.
 Also, as of Tuesday, my sx-1980 will finally be off for a complete restore by mattsd, a fellow recommended by Skylab.


----------



## Seamaster

You are right. the price for SX-1980 is already pretty ugly.


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> The headphone out on my Pioneer SX-1980 is so good that I no longer own a single dedicated headphone amp. Not one. I'm still reviewing them for InnerFidelity, and so there are usually one or two here, but they are review loaners. For my own use, I actually PREFER to use the SX-1980. You put it very well - there is a transparency and effortlessness that is hard to imagine.


 
 Just out of curiosity Skylab do you still use your Leben CS-300 or mostly the SX-1980 ?  I realize the Leben is not a "true" headphone amplifier but most Headfiers probably consider the Leben for headphone usage.


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> Good news on other fronts though: I've found a nice piece at a score price and am firing up the minivan to pick it up this weekend. Only known problem is that the *ahem* _blue meters_ are wonky, and the wood case can use some TLC.
> Also, as of Tuesday, my sx-1980 will finally be off for a complete restore by mattsd, a fellow recommended by Skylab.




That's very cool on both counts!



bobg55 said:


> Just out of curiosity Skylab do you still use your Leben CS-300 or mostly the SX-1980 ?  I realize the Leben is not a "true" headphone amplifier but most Headfiers probably consider the Leben for headphone usage.




Well...I sold the Leben a few weeks back, so I guess that's your answer


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> phoenixg said:
> 
> 
> > Good news on other fronts though: I've found a nice piece at a score price and am firing up the minivan to pick it up this weekend. Only known problem is that the *ahem* _blue meters_ are wonky, and the wood case can use some TLC.
> ...


 
 Thanks.  So I'm not the only one who seems to prefer vintage amps over HP amps.  I've got my eye on an Vintage Integrated amp receiver so I've put my Trafomatic Experience Head One up for sale.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very happy with the HPO on the SX-1250.  Power to spare!  Excellent (and getting better) sound.   Got parts on the way for the output boards (all audio grade caps).  Can't wait to get started.


----------



## captouch

A few pics of a couple more receivers/integrateds.
  
 First, my Mac 1900.  Just finished repairing a FM problem and refreshing the meter gel filters.
  

  

  

  
  
 And a Fisher KX-100:
  

  

  

  

  
 And where they're residing at the moment. . .


----------



## .Sup

everything looks so 70s cap  Good stuff!


----------



## PhoenixG

How did you redo the filters on those 1900 meters. I just picked up a 1900 yesterday that needs it done. Photos to follow soon haha.
p.s. you have perfect timing


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful stuff, Cap!!! Love the Fisher - that's a great sounding piece of kit, for sure.


----------



## LugBug1

captouch said:


> And a Fisher KX-100:


 
 We need to see this bad boy again! 
  
 Great stuff Captouch.


----------



## captouch

phoenixg said:


> How did you redo the filters on those 1900 meters. I just picked up a 1900 yesterday that needs it done. Photos to follow soon haha.
> p.s. you have perfect timing




You remove the top front cover that has Mac1900 printed on it. 4 screws and it lifts off with a little up/backward force. There was some adhesive, so took a bit of force, but not a lot.

You'll see two tubes of colored plastic/gel filters near the meters and fitted over the bulbs that are simply rolled up gel film taped to keep it in a roll and taped at one end to keep the light concentrated. It may be a bit brittle. Mine had gone pink where the bulb was.

Pull it off carefully and make new tubes of the same size using colored filter gel with tape on one side to keep it coiled and the light projecting out the front mostly - I used electrical tape, but anything that will stand the heat should be fine as you won't see it. Slip them back on and you're done.

I had one bad bulb, so I replaced it at the same time. 1847 bulb (6.3V, 0.15A) - I got mine at a local Frys - it had a different PN (which had 47 in it, but had some letters instead of the 18), but specs were the same, so I went with it. 

One source for the colored gel is:
http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/colour-list.html

I found that #118 was almost a perfect match for the color that was originally in there.

Let me know if you have any questions!


----------



## captouch

Thanks for the comments. Vintage gear rules. 

Skylab, I saw you had the KX-100 in beautiful wood cases. I had to settle for a metal case for now. I also have the FM-50B tuner you had - in a homemade wood case for now.

The gear in the pics spans '60's, '70's, '90's, 00's, and '10's, but no '80's unless you count the vinyl?


----------



## BobG55

> And where they're residing at the moment. . .


 
 Love the picture frames above : Cannonball Aderlley & Bill Evans : very cool.


----------



## SpeakerBox

What are the speakers?


----------



## captouch

bobg55 said:


> Love the picture frames above : Cannonball Aderlley & Bill Evans : very cool.


 
  
 I love '50's and '60's jazz.  I came into a decent # of old jazz records through a friend of a friend.  Many of them were unfortunately "too well loved" over the years to be playable now, but some of the record covers were in nice condition, so they seemed natural for framing.
  
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> What are the speakers?


 
  
 They're Alon II's, designed by *Carl* Marchisotto who designed several of the Dahquist speakers (DQ-20 is one I believe) and now is running Nola.  These are early-to-mid '90's vintage.  Open baffle design for the tweeter and midrange.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have read that the DQ-20s are better than the 10s.


----------



## PhoenixG

Who loves photos? This guy!
 I've taken the vinyl plunge, getting a Dual 1229 turntable (audio technica cartridge) and about a dozen decent LPs. I was relaxing with this earlier today while digging into this new-to-me mac 1900.

 This mac was really rough. Like they used it for the floor of a birdcage or as a filter for a vacuum or something. Here are some before photos:


 This was one of the nastiest encrusted pieces I've ever worked with, though I'm sure many of you have worse horror stories. Now it's fairly clean with nice new blue dials. I'd like to thank captouch for the advice on the blue gels. I was able to get some gels and help from my friend Foxx to make it look as good as it does. TBD on the sound.

 P.S. I didn't touch the dial glass at all, some of the lettering just came right off without any provocation, like it was barely hanging in there.


----------



## LugBug1

phoenixg said:


> Who loves photos? This guy!
> I've taken the vinyl plunge, getting a Dual 1229 turntable (audio technica cartridge) and about a dozen decent LPs. I was relaxing with this earlier today while digging into this new-to-me mac 1900.
> 
> This mac was really rough. Like they used it for the floor of a birdcage or as a filter for a vacuum or something. Here are some before photos:
> ...


 
 Well that looks seriously nice now.  And yet another classic Phoenix and Foxx production!
  
 Keep us up to date with the Vinyl plunge, and if you prefer the sound etc


----------



## LugBug1

Yup another NAD.... 'Yawn' 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Had to snap it up as it was going cheap and in great nick. 
  
 3225PE 

  
 A quick deoxit and ready to go. Sounds simply lovely with my HD800. More powerful than my 3020, and I think it is a bit louder - could be wrong though..


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice LugBug!


----------



## .Sup

lugbug1 said:


> Yup another NAD.... 'Yawn' :bigsmile_face:
> 
> Had to snap it up as it was going cheap and in great nick.
> 
> ...



Lol I am looking at the same model for a month now and can't decide as its quite expensive. How good is it? I am looking for HD800 use primarily.


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Nice LugBug!


 
 Thank you 
  


.sup said:


> Lol I am looking at the same model for a month now and can't decide as its quite expensive. How good is it? I am looking for HD800 use primarily.


 
 Well SQ is always very subjective... But if you want what I would call an effortless, natural sound without any hardness or false resolution (not sure exactly what I mean here.. No added light?) then I can whole-heartedly recommend it. As we all know, the HD800 are extremely transparent and some amps can make them sound overly clinical. So this is why I think they make a very good match. I believe the NAD's have a lower output impedance than most vintage amps and so you do get a more balanced FR with dynamic hp's.
  
 Bare in mind I paid £65 for this amp - it is extraordinary good value when you think that I'm amping a £1000 headphone. And amping it better than any other amp I've heard with them.


----------



## LugBug1

Just wanted to add that all 3 of my mid to late 1980's NAD's sound the same -3020i, 3225pe, 7130. So its not just the amp above that I recommend with the Senn's.


----------



## .Sup

Does it have the same "meaty" sound as older amps? Thanks a lot LB! You are lucky, Ive seen a couple mint 3240PEs but sellers only ship to UK.


----------



## PhoenixG

lugbug1 said:


> Well that looks seriously nice now.  And yet another classic Phoenix and Foxx production!
> 
> Keep us up to date with the Vinyl plunge, and if you prefer the sound etc


 
 I figured I'd give a better after picture and talk a sec about some vinyl.

 Remembering it looked like this:

  
 So, initial impressions of my hopefully permanent vinyl rig. Audio technica cartridge, dual 1229 turntable, sony str-6120, mcintosh xr-250 speakers. I'm already convinced that the amplification and speaker parts of the rig are my personal bliss by which I compare all other 2 channel systems, so I was focused on the source today. The cartridge has about 50 hours on it despite being about 40 years old by now, but I assume that's still fairly new. I worked my way through a Queen album (A Night at the Opera) and a BTO album (Not Fragile) today. I was very impressed with how much headroom there was. I was really slammed by the bass when appropriate, and it felt like a very good quality source. It was infinitely better than an ipod and about the same as a good CD player in terms of detail. It seemed to have a slight leg up on headroom/fullness. I ran it with absolutely no EQ whatsoever and was very happy by how naturally balanced it was. I didn't even need "loudness", which I often find myself using to unpack digital sources a bit. Blasting Bohemian Rhapsody just felt amazing.
  
 I was a bit frustrated by the dust. Every speck of dust was perfectly (annoyingly) amplified, so I will have to find a more effective way to clean each record before playing it. Also, I felt like there might have been interference between the speaker and the turntable at low frequencies, so I'll have to work on placement once the rig is settled in the new house.


----------



## captouch

> P.S. I didn't touch the dial glass at all, some of the lettering just came right off without any provocation, like it was barely hanging in there.


 
  
 That looks good, glad the gel refurbishment worked out.  

 So that lettering was fine when you got it and just flaked off while you were cleaning it?
  
 Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Mac vs your STR-6120.  I have a STR-6055 and both it and the Mac sound very good.  The Mac may be a bit more mellow/laid back, very smooth, but perhaps a little less dynamic than the Sony.  Impressions not from a back to back or immediate A/B comparison - just general impressions.


----------



## terry parr

quick complaint (or "rant", in everyday discussion forum language).  it seems like i'll never be able to find that one integrated that'll give me:
  
 (A   the punch and impact that i want,
  
 (B   the ability to deliver the more subtle, nuanced tonal details that i also want to hear.
  
  
 i remember hearing the Marantz PM-8004 which i auditioned in the store (bringing along my other gear, and taking music selections that i was familiar with), and while the subtle details were there in this amp it was almost like you had to strain and squint your eyes in order to hear the very subtle harmonics and other characteristics that were pleasing to hear, but this amp didn't have enough ("gain?" / "current?") to really make this a satisfying amp to listen to.  the small details were there, ("buried", it seemed to me),  but nobody wants to have to work _this_ hard in order to hear them. i don't mind "paying attention" while i listen (i enjoy listening for details), but i don't want music listening to seem like "work", either.
  
 two questions:  how easy/difficult would it be to modify this particular amp (the headphone amp is more than likely an op-amp, rather than the design for the h/p out using a stepped-down resistor between the h/p amp and the main power supply, but i don't know).
  
 question two:  there is a Marantz SR-48 available locally (about an hour-and-a-half away), for a great price.  but the low price doesn't mean much if the h/p out disappoints.
  
  
  
 anybody feel free to chime in.  thanks in advance.
  
 i feel like i'm _still_ searching for an amp that knows how to rock, but at the same time can deliver sonic refinements (listening to a hard-driving rock/blues piece, then switching gears and putting on a jazz trio piece where the grand piano is recorded well).  it seems like when choosing an amp,  it's "one, or the other."


----------



## PhoenixG

captouch said:


> That looks good, glad the gel refurbishment worked out.
> 
> So that lettering was fine when you got it and just flaked off while you were cleaning it?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Mac vs your STR-6120.  I have a STR-6055 and both it and the Mac sound very good.  The Mac may be a bit more mellow/laid back, very smooth, but perhaps a little less dynamic than the Sony.  Impressions not from a back to back or immediate A/B comparison - just general impressions.


 
 Yeah, I just hit it with canned air, not even on the glass, and the lettering lost about 10%. Very delicate stuff. I think just blowing on it from my mouth would have done it.
  
 I'm eager as well to get an A/B in, though I'm not sure that this mac will be a good example of its kin. When I listened to it last, it sounded noticeably different 5 minutes after being turned on compared to right away. Like the bass had to find its way to the party.


----------



## jgreen16

Just sold off my Pioneer SX-880 receiver and SA-8800 integrated amp prior to a move. Once I get settled in my new place I'll be looking for something new in the receiver/amp department. I'd really like to avoid pieces that have unobtainium parts though.
  
 Primarily thinking Pioneer, so are the SX-X50 units better than the X80 units as far as being able to keep them up and running for years to come? What about the integrateds? Also would consider the Sansui integrateds such as the AU-717. Is this a problematic unit to keep fresh?


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> Does it have the same "meaty" sound as older amps? Thanks a lot LB! You are lucky, Ive seen a couple mint 3240PEs but sellers only ship to UK.


 
 Yes. Thats why I love the vintage sound  Spent some more time with the 3225pe last night and it is defo louder than my other NAD's. So I would assume that all of the PE models will be louder. I am quite a low level listener and even with the "low level" button pressed I'm just off the floor of the volume pot with classical music! With this extra power I'm sure that there does seem to be more slam and punch - especially in the bass. The sound signature is no different to my other NAD's but it does seem more powerful sounding - this could be my kidding myself because of the extra volume, dunno... 
  
  
  


phoenixg said:


> I figured I'd give a better after picture and talk a sec about some vinyl.
> 
> Remembering it looked like this:
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for those detailed impressions, I'm always interested in how some going back to Vinyl find it after years of digital.


----------



## SpeakerBox

> i feel like i'm _still_ searching for an amp that knows how to rock, but at the same time can deliver sonic refinements (listening to a hard-driving rock/blues piece, then switching gears and putting on a jazz trio piece where the grand piano is recorded well).  it seems like when choosing an amp,  it's "one, or the other."


 
  
 The Pioneer SX-1250 will do that all day long.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> The Pioneer SX-1250 will do that all day long.




Funny you say that...I was going to post that the SX-1980 I have does too! Which it certainly does. And I certainly agree the 1250 does as well.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Funny you say that...I was going to post that the SX-1980 I have does too! Which it certainly does. And I certainly agree the 1250 does as well.


 
  
 They are great units (want to hear a 1980 some day).  Got one of the two output driver boards on the 1250 re-capped and re-soldered last night.  Number two will be done tonight.  Can't wait to hear what this change does for the sound.  Great anticipation!


----------



## PhoenixG

captouch said:


> Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the Mac vs your STR-6120.  I have a STR-6055 and both it and the Mac sound very good.  The Mac may be a bit more mellow/laid back, very smooth, but perhaps a little less dynamic than the Sony.  Impressions not from a back to back or immediate A/B comparison - just general impressions.


 
 So I had some time when I was definitely not procrastinating about packing to A/B the sony str-6120 and the mac-1900. I gave them both a few minutes to warm up, then I listened to the FM radio back to back through each receiver. I tend to agree with your impressions, the 6120 is ruler flat and very good across the entire range and is my reference amp while the 1980 and 800c are out for a refurb. The mac was "mellow" and "laid back", which I think are words that indicate somewhat higher, but not annoying, distortion and noise levels. It's important to say that it really wasn't annoying to listen to: it was smooth enough to listen to for hours without going crazy.
  
 I felt like there was more distance between me and the music, and it wasn't as detailed as the sony. I flipped back and forth mid-phrase to catch the same passage on both amps. The highs are somewhat muted on the mac, maybe indicating a lower rolloff frequency on the 1900, possibly around 20-ishkHz for the -3dB point. It was able to bring them back forward with about 2dB of treble adjustment to a fairly flat response, but that also brought up the noise floor a tad with it.
  
 I took another pass at the 1900 through the phono 1 input, playing a few songs off of "History of Eric Clapton", try and get a better sense of how the amplifier section sounds. I'm fairly pleased with it. It was very nice quality; silkier, with less noise. There was still a decent amount of rolloff, which makes me continue to think the amp has a -3dB point around 20kHz. The phono section was much less noisy than the tuner and basically made the entire amp for me. It was easy to listen to and detailed enough to satisfy me. The same songs on the sony had a cooler character with clearer highs, but it was good listening on both for sure. 
  
 I found the mids to be fairly warm. If you have very bright, analytic speakers/headphones, then this might be a good amp to tame them. 
 Looking under the hood, this amp is 100% McIntosh based on build quality. I think there must be some servicing that will bring the noise down and clean up the sound. Since it is largely card based, I think this amp would be relatively easy for a DIY'er to work on and/or modify.


----------



## Seamaster

Dry out capacitors will limit the frequency responds range. Recap may help out your Mac


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> The Pioneer SX-1250 will do that all day long.


 

 and half the night..............LOL.................as does the SX-1050, SA-9900 and Spec 1/2 from my experience.


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> speakerbox said:
> 
> 
> > The Pioneer SX-1250 will do that all day long.
> ...


 
 As does the Sansui G-22000.


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> As does the Sansui G-22000.




Likely the pinnacle of all the great equipment owned by this distinguished group.


----------



## terry parr

appreciate the few who quickly chimed in with some help.
  
  i feel like good amplification is still the missing link for my system. 
  
 i knew this was the thread to "vent" a few frustrations.  i knew there would be some on here who knew exactly what i was talking about, and could probably make specific recommendations based on first-hand experience.
  
 i've wrote the model numbers down of the pieces mentioned so far and stuck 'em in my wallet.  now, when i go by a couple of electronic shops in the area that have advertised vintage gear (or getting in touch with a couple of people selling older audio gear on local craigslist), i'll have particular models in mind.
  
 thanks, guys.


----------



## captouch

phoenixg said:


> So I had some time when I was definitely not procrastinating about packing to A/B the sony str-6120 and the mac-1900. I gave them both a few minutes to warm up, then I listened to the FM radio back to back through each receiver. I tend to agree with your impressions, the 6120 is ruler flat and very good across the entire range and is my reference amp while the 1980 and 800c are out for a refurb. The mac was "mellow" and "laid back", which I think are words that indicate somewhat higher, but not annoying, distortion and noise levels. It's important to say that it really wasn't annoying to listen to: it was smooth enough to listen to for hours without going crazy.
> 
> I felt like there was more distance between me and the music, and it wasn't as detailed as the sony. I flipped back and forth mid-phrase to catch the same passage on both amps. The highs are somewhat muted on the mac, maybe indicating a lower rolloff frequency on the 1900, possibly around 20-ishkHz for the -3dB point. It was able to bring them back forward with about 2dB of treble adjustment to a fairly flat response, but that also brought up the noise floor a tad with it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the detailed impressions.  I still haven't used the phono of the Mac - mostly just the tape inputs for CD.  Definitely non-fatiguing and buttery smooth, though I agree it may be rolled off.  I can only hear up to 13kHz or so, so I can't comment on anything going on above that, but if you want lively, the Sony gives that more than the Mac.  Luckily, we don't have to choose.  
  
 I've heard nothing but good things about the 6120.  It probably sounds pretty similar to my 6055, but with more power.  Sony's aren't as outwardly pretty or flashy as others, but understated elegance I'd say.  Put it in a wood case, and it's still a real looker.  And it's right up there with the top tier on sound quality.  I was curious about vintage Sony, but never went out of my way to get one.  A friend gave me his, and it really exceeded my expectations.
  
 I just brought up a Yamaha CA-600.  One of these days, I want to do a "battle of the 30-40W" receivers/integrateds:
 Sony STR-6055 vs
 Marantz 1060 vs
 Yamaha CA-600
  
 That would be interesting. . .


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> I have read that the DQ-20s are better than the 10s.


 
 I have only seen and heard DQ-20 once - at SIM audio fair, Milan, Italy, either 1979 or 1986. I remember it sounding "nothing special" - but since then I did learn that "nothing special/nothing to comment about" is the hallmark of the upper echelons of anything audio. In that sense, it certainly is better than DQ-10.


----------



## .Sup

Cap tell us how the CA-600. I have been eyeing a CA-610 for a while now.


----------



## Oregonian

Finally figured out where to put the SX-1050.......


----------



## Seamaster

That beautifully monster shadows your speakers


----------



## Oregonian

seamaster said:


> That beautifully monster shadows your speakers


 

 Those tiny satellites you see are for the Samsung surround receiver thankfully....................lol.
  
 I've got a pair of Polk's hidden behind the system that handle the Pioneer pretty well.  They sound extremely good.  As long as I don't get crazy with the volume they should stay together.  Had my Klipsch 3.2's in there but the WAF didn't fly.


----------



## captouch

.sup said:


> Cap tell us how the CA-600. I have been eyeing a CA-610 for a while now.


 
 It's built really well (25lbs or so, solid metal selector knobs with set screws, metal covers over many boards), access to most boards is pretty easy.  Elegant, understated, simple face.  Pre-out/main-in jacks with coupler switch so you don't need the U-shaped metal jumpers, two phono inputs (one with adjustable R settings), two AUX inputs, defeatable tone controls, variable loudness.
  
 Bias and DC offset easy to set with test posts for bias test locations.
  
 I was expecting fairly lean sound based on reputation, but it's very smooth and effortless with my Yamaha NS-690 II speakers.  I haven't done a face off with other similar powered amps yet, but plan to do so at some point.  It's sonic character may be more obvious in a A/B with others.
  
 The case is wood, but covered with vinyl woodgrain covering.  I plan to strip this off and see how the underlying wood will look if sanded/finished.  Otherwise, wood veneer.  Here's a few pics:
  

  

  
 This last pic here shows some of the flexibility of settings.  Can output multiple mono modes - L channel only, R only, or blend of L&R to both speakers.
  

  
 It doesn't have a Class A mode like the CA-800 and CA-1000, but I was lucky enough to get this unit as a needs-repair unit from a kind AK'er, and after fixing a couple of things, it seems to be running great.


----------



## Oregonian

I always liked the concept of adjustable loudness. That's a nice Yamaha there.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I got the output driver boards on the SX-1250 recapped with a combination audio grade electrolytic and film caps. Also re-soldered and cleaned the connector pins and boards over the last few days.  Put everything back together and fired it up.  I was a little worried at first as there was some harshness (used silver solder so that was a concern) and not as much punch - but I now attribute this to part of the break in process as it is starting to smooth out with more and more weight and detail behind the music.  Here is the completed right output board:


----------



## SpeakerBox

I won this off that ubiquitous auction site this week.  A Sherwood S-8900A.  Very nice sound, FM only, 60WPC, and in beautiful cosmetic condition.  The only thing I had to do was replace three bulbs.  $49 shipped.  Given that all the radio money goes into a quality FM tuner I am very optimistic because I listen to it quite a bit.
  
 May end up replacing my tricked out S-7100A if the sound is good enough.   Here is a pic:
  

  
 I might add it is built like a tank in the US - Chicago!  Approximately 23 pounds.


----------



## LugBug1

Very nice SpeakerBox, And a hell of a bargain!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Thanks LugBug!  I never get tired of the hunt for new (ah I mean old) stuff to play with.


----------



## DanPluck

Happy to be back in vintage land.
  
 Technics SA-600, replaced lamps with LED's.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice job.  Looks great!


----------



## Oregonian

danpluck said:


> Happy to be back in vintage land.
> 
> Technics SA-600, replaced lamps with LED's.


 
 That's a beauty!~


----------



## PhoenixG

Deoxit is on sale for under $10/5oz can from parts express. I'm getting a mixed case because that's a great price. I figured you guys might also want to know that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Cheers


----------



## LugBug1

Gorgeous Technics Dan!


----------



## DanPluck

oregonian said:


> That's a beauty!~




Thanks, the LED job was super easy. It turns out that pinball machine lamp to LED replacements are the perfect fit/ spec for this amp, nice and cheap too.


----------



## LugBug1

danpluck said:


> Thanks, the LED job was super easy. It turns out that pinball machine lamp to LED replacements are the perfect fit/ spec for this amp, nice and cheap too!
> 
> Edit: I don't mean to sound like a smug got but I only paid £20/$30 for it.


 
 You would normally be looking at £200-300 for one of those in as good condition... Seriously!


----------



## DanPluck

lugbug1 said:


> You would normally be looking at £200-300 for one of those in as good condition... Seriously!



:eek:


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> Deoxit is on sale for under $10/5oz can from parts express. I'm getting a mixed case because that's a great price. I figured you guys might also want to know that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks Phoenix - I think mine is about to run out.


----------



## nick n

I like the ~1982 JVC/Victor A-X55 so much it needed a friend.
Ａ-Ｘ７７
VICTOR A-X55の仕様 ビクター
 No way I could turn down the shipped price of the spare, and it was local also.
 Popped the top off to have a look and the new one had shot pre driver amp board caps. Nice mess to carefully clean up.
 The good amp on the bottom had failing ones also not as bad. Both older Elna. So I pulled them out and replaced them with Philips Vishay.
  
 Initially had got it for spare parts just in case, but it will replace the Nikko in the bedroom setup to keep it used from time to time. That Nikko will be gifted to infect a friend with the vintage receiver bug after I check it out and adjust offset.
 Top one still needs a cleaning, and I will duplicate the lower flap and make a TRS jack access hole at the same time..

  
 There's a couple of matching tuners around but not sure I would ever bother with those.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice job.  A quick look at the schematics will tell you which electrolytic caps are in the signal path.  I like to replace these with film if possible or audio grade electrolytic caps (usually 105C and at least matching the current voltage rating - but usually one step higher).  The sonic signature will improve drastically with this mod.


----------



## Trav

Proud owner of this fully serviced Yamaha CR 2040.


----------



## Seadubb

I have a Yamaha CR-830 in great shape, except for one issue: The headphone output has a small amount of noise. It's not a 60Hz hum, it's full spectrum and fairly quiet. Unfortunately it's enough to keep me from using my LCD-2 headphones as normal. It does sound fine with the -20dB button pressed, however. Any idea where I should begin to try to diagnose this issue? Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## Skylab

If it sounds fine with the -20dB muting engaged, why not just listen to headphones that way??? Several vintage units Iva had required that. Nothing wrong with listening that way.


----------



## Silent One

trav said:


> Proud owner of this fully serviced Yamaha CR 2040.


----------



## moodyrn

Great stuff guys. I really need to check in here more often. Every time I step away for a few days this thread explodes!
I'm really happy to see more and more guys willing to take it upon themselves to put their precious gear under the knife. Once you gain more experience, it really is fun to do. 

Trav I'm glad you pulled the trigger on the yammy. You are gone to have to invite me over one day for a listen.


----------



## terry parr

*DanPluck*, i think the LED'S on this unit really add to the "clean" look of it.  very nice.  (plus, with the bottom pic you provided, showing how it lights in a dark room, you can probably listen at night with just your SA-600 providing all the light in the room).  i like to listen at night with the only light being supplied by my audio equipment.  
  
  
 and if the windows of my listening room faced the back yard, i'd probably have those curtain liners that the hotels use to completely block out the sunlight during the day. but my listening room has window blinds now, and this window faces the street.  (but, with my work schedule, i'm doing most of my listening during the week, and at night, anyway).


----------



## DanPluck

Yha





terry parr said:


> *DanPluck*, i think the LED'S on this unit really add to the "clean" look of it.  very nice.  (plus, with the bottom pic you provided, showing how it lights in a dark room, you can probably listen at night with just your SA-600 providing all the light in the room).  i like to listen at night with the only light being supplied by my audio equipment.
> 
> 
> and if the windows of my listening room faced the back yard, i'd probably have those curtain liners that the hotels use to completely block out the sunlight during the day. but my listening room has window blinds now, and this window faces the street.  (but, with my work schedule, i'm doing most of my listening during the week, and at night, anyway).




Thank you. I thought i would try and keep it as stock as possible, it would have been really easy to turn it in to Dans technicolour reciever. Im very happy with the result and it sounds fantastic.

I will have a play with the Akai-AM2450 at the weekend.


----------



## buson160man

moodyrn said:


> Wow, missed a few days and I have missed a lot; concepts, sony separates etc. Great stuff guys. That concept is probably on a lot of people short list. That was an incredible find. The sony setup just looks stunning!
> 
> Oregonian I'm really sorry to hear that about you he-6. As I've said many times before, the higher end pioneers have the most power headphone outs of all the gear I've had. Driving cans from the headphone out is almost like driving them from the speaker taps. Hifiman have been know to do free repairs with out of warranty he-6, so I hope they will do the same for you if yours are out our warranty.


 

 Thanks I am happy with the concept 16.5 receiver. Frankly I myself was not aware of the concept line. I probably saw some of their units way back at one of the pacific stereo stores. But I was probably ogling the high end room with the harmon khardon citations the acoustic research AR 11s(which I eventually did buy from pacific stereo back then) and whatever high end brand equipment they carried at the time. I used to own a kenwood receiver and a onkyo receiver back in the day. I was primarily a speaker person back then but I did remember having several pairs of koss pro 4aas back then.
   I am still checking out the concept unit with my audeze phones. The sound seems to  be fairly musical with good bass and pretty decent dynamics. Just wish the lcd2s were just a bit less reticent at the top and a bit more alive in the top end. But I guess that is one of the limitations of the lcd2 design. As I read recently if top end resolution is at the top of your shopping list the lcd2 is probably not going to be on that list.
   Well time for some more listening the lcd2s are sounding pretty musical so far with the concept 16.5 receiver . Down the road a bit when things are not so tight I am thinking about having at least some of the caps replaced with some higher performance ones and possibly some film cps wherever practical. Maybe even some high grade output caps, But that is probably a ways down the road.
    Yes I was lucky to land the concept receiver wasn't I.


----------



## buson160man

derbigpr said:


> Well, I did test out over 30 intergrated amplifiers and receivers with my T1's, and most of them sounded better than any of the <500 dollar headphone amps I've heard and had SIGNIFICANTLY more power as well, so I don't think I'm talking out of my ass. I just didn't try any old vintage ones and wonder what is it about them that makes them so good compared to new ones.  Of the ones that I found good....pretty much every Marantz, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Naim, Denon, Onkyo, etc., from entry level 400 dollar ones to higher end ones. I particularly remember the NAD 356BEE sounding very good, and some Naim (don't remember the model, but it was around 1500€) which actually made the T1's sound better than I've ever heard them sound before, incredibly smooth and effortless. With DT880 600 ohms and HD650's I  specifically A-B tested the Asus Xonar Essence One, Nuforce HDP and Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus to several amps they had in the store, and they all sounded slightly to significantly better than those dedicated headamp/DAC's, for same money, that's why I ended up buying an Onkyo A-5VL some time ago, it was simply better for headphones than any headphone amp/DAC in the price range that I've tried, plus it drives speakers very well too. It literally made the Cambridge Audo DAC Magic Plus's headphone output sound like crap, without exaggerating. Totally thin, lifeless, harsh, no body, no soundstage, bright, etc. The only one that could hold it's own was the Essence One, but that had nowhere near as power as any of the integrated amps or receivers, and was actually priced higher than the Onkyo A-5VL. Now I have the Musical Fidelity M1HPAP as my main headphone amp, which costs twice as much as the Onkyo, but actually has far less power and only sounds marginally better. I literally have to A-B test them to find that MF sounds very slightly more airy and a bit tighter, but I'm really talking about a VERY small difference. Onkyo has an in-built DAC as well, which is actually better than the in-built one in the M1HPAP, so used with their internal DAC's, the gap between them actually goes in favor of the Onkyo. Also, MF M1 on full volume with T1's is on about the same level as the Onkyo on 40%, plus, with M1 there's a slight hiss at over 3 o'clock on the volume, while with Onkyo there is no hiss at all, not even at full volume.  The only disadvantage of the Onkyo is running the low impedance headphones, especailly IEMs which totally don't work at all, they sound like loose boomy mess. But anything harder to drive, even low impedance like K701's and Q701's works really well, and Sennheiser HD650 as well as all the Beyers work wonderfully and virtually as good as out of a much more expensive headphone amp.


 

  I am not familiar with the onkyo integrated but I do own the companion sacd/cd player from onkyo the cs5vl and it is actually a pretty decent cd player. On sacd it is actually better sounding than my much more expensive denon 3931ci player. I still prefer the denon on regular cds.
    The 3930ci is still a exemplary dvd player though. I have compared it to the oppo bdp105 non darbee edition and the 3931ci just smoked the bdp 105 on video. The denon was noticeably sharper looking.
     But getting back to the onkyos I have read that both the the integrated amp and the sacd/cd player in this series are excellent values and pretty good performers. I imagine as apair they would probably be a very good sounding combination.


----------



## moodyrn

buson160man said:


> Yes I was lucky to land the concept receiver wasn't I.


 
  
 Lol yes you were.


----------



## joehalo

I've been on the lookout for an SX-1010 for a while now and I finally got my hands on one! Wow is all I can say. Killer sound!


----------



## captouch

joehalo said:


> I've been on the lookout for an SX-1010 for a while now and I finally got my hands on one! Wow is all I can say. Killer sound!


 
  
 Nice.  I've read there's something special about that particular model, sound wise.  Looks great too.


----------



## Skylab

NICE! I had an SX-1010 for a while - great sounding receiver. I only sold it after I got my SX-1980 restored, but the 1010 is no slouch! Great piece.


----------



## .Sup

Finally got something I really wanted. 



Condition is excellent. Enjoying HD800 right now. Body and bass.

More tomorrow.


----------



## claybum

I love the sound of the SX-1010. Mine has been giving me some problems so it is out of rotation. Hope your 1010 gives you many years of musical joy.


----------



## claybum

If any of you vintage heads are into Pink Floyd (post Roger Waters), I would like to recommend 'The Division Bell" download from hdtracks that just became available this week. I think it is worth the upgrade. 
  
 Currently listening to the Floyd via Antelope Zodiak > Pioneer SA-9800 (not restored, yet) > Pioneer HPM 1500
  
 Cheers!!


----------



## Skylab

Funny you mention that I was just playing the 20th Anniversary vinyl reissue of Division Bell that also just came out on my vintage rig. Sounds AWESOME


----------



## claybum

Right on Skylab!   Hey....Are you pretty much all vinyl and reel? Do you listen to digital at all these days? Just curious.


----------



## Skylab

Mostly digital for me is for background listening. There are some exceptions - I was just very much enjoying the new 96/24 Steven Wilson remix of Jethro Tull's A Passion Play. But when I'm able to sit down and listen to music, it's reel or vinyl, yep.


----------



## claybum

Thanks Skylab.....I might have to plop down $40 for 'The Passion Play' remix. Sounds extremely tempting.


----------



## buson160man

joehalo said:


> I've been on the lookout for an SX-1010 for a while now and I finally got my hands on one! Wow is all I can say. Killer sound!


 
 Boy those old pioneers really do look pretty. Not like my humdrum looking concept 16.5 I recently picked up. But after having it for a couple of weeks it does not look to bad just kind of plain jane.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think the 16.5 is a very nice looking receiver.  I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> Finally got something I really wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nice nice nice. Congrats buddy, hope you're enjoying it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I know I've banged on about these NAD's quite a bit, but I genuinely do think they make fantastic headphone amps.


----------



## joehalo

I'm enjoying the sound of this SX-1010 more than my SX-1980. I love the extra warmth it has.


----------



## mike34260

I recently picked up a Pioneer SA-6500 II in excellent shape for only 34 bucks! It sounds great and has more than enough juice to power my Mad Dogs and HE 400. I am really impressed by the headphone stage in this unit. I would post pics but it says my account doesn't have permission to.


----------



## roadcykler

mike34260 said:


> I recently picked up a Pioneer SA-6500 II in excellent shape for only 34 bucks! It sounds great and has more than enough juice to power my Mad Dogs and HE 400. I am really impressed by the headphone stage in this unit. I would post pics but it says my account doesn't have permission to.


 
 Maybe you have to have more posts to qualify. It probably says something about that in the TOS.


----------



## jnorris

Picked up a Mac (McIntosh) 1900 receiver at tag sale for $100. The headphone out is just a 220 ohm dropping resistor oft the 55 watt amp's speaker outs and is unbelievably musical and clean. I'd put this thing up against any multi kilobuck op-amp headphone amp out there. In my system it replaced a Pioneer SA-6500, which replaced an Advent 300, which replaced a Denon DRA-435R. The Pioneer was good, but no match for the McIntosh. The Pioneer's aging power supply caps were bleeding a little hum into the output so it might be time for a re-cap on that one.

Prior to using integrated amps I was using the headphone output of a Parasound P/HP-850 preamp which is the same circuit (and same op-amp) as the over $300 Grado headamp. The Parasound output was woefully inadequate to drive my current favorites the TDK IE800, although it did an OK job with my other headphones. Switching to the higher powered amps brought a whole new level of dynamics to the table for all my headphones.


----------



## mike34260

roadcykler said:


> Maybe you have to have more posts to qualify. It probably says something about that in the TOS.


 
 Makes since considering I'm a newbie to the forum


----------



## mike34260

jnorris said:


> Picked up a Mac (McIntosh) 1900 receiver at tag sale for $100. The headphone out is just a 220 ohm dropping resistor oft the 55 watt amp's speaker outs and is unbelievably musical and clean. I'd put this thing up against any multi kilobuck op-amp headphone amp out there. In my system it replaced a Pioneer SA-6500, which replaced an Advent 300, which replaced a Denon DRA-435R. The Pioneer was good, but no match for the McIntosh. The Pioneer's aging power supply caps were bleeding a little hum into the output so it might be time for a re-cap on that one.
> 
> Prior to using integrated amps I was using the headphone output of a Parasound P/HP-850 preamp which is the same circuit (and same op-amp) as the over $300 Grado headamp. The Parasound output was woefully inadequate to drive my current favorites the TDK IE800, although it did an OK job with my other headphones. Switching to the higher powered amps brought a whole new level of dynamics to the table for all my headphones.


 
 Wow 100 dollars must have been a steal for that! How would you describe the sound compared to the Pioneer in terms of warmth, soundstage, etc...?


----------



## jnorris

The Pioneer was fine, although it probably needed a re-cap to reach it's full potential.  Compared to the Mac it's high-end was kind of aggressive and spitty and the overall presentation was thin. The Mac is just a whole lot more listenable - warmer, better resolution in the highs without emphasizing them, more body in the upper bass/lower midrange.  I don't see any appreciable difference in sound stage.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow what a killer price for a Mac 1900. You really scored with that one. 

Joehalo I also use to own and loved the 1010. I'm still a big fan of it's sonics. I think it loses out a little to the 1280 when it comes to transparency and detail. But it also best it when it comes to musicality IMO. Beautiful receiver as well, yours look stunning.


----------



## Skylab

The SX-1010 looks great and sounds great. Ultimately I sold mine because no amount of deoxit treatment could get those damned push buttons to function properly/reliably. This was the Achilles heel of that design, over time. They all have them. The SX-1980's Achilles heel is the power supply board, which MUST be rebuilt with some uprated parts if the unit is to work properly and reliably. 

I also preferred the transparency and detail of the 1980 over the 1010, but I freely admit I would love to hear that 1010 I had on my Pioneer DSS-9 speakers, which I didn't have when I had the 1010.


----------



## .Sup

lugbug1 said:


> Nice nice nice. Congrats buddy, hope you're enjoying it
> 
> I know I've banged on about these NAD's quite a bit, but I genuinely do think they make fantastic headphone amps.


Thanks man! I don't want to make any final comments but so far it falls behind the Yamaha in terms of energy and musicality. Its well balanced with good amounts of everything but it just doesn't have the sparkle, its a bit dull. Trying different DACs now. If it doesn't work out as a headphone amp then it will surely be my primary speaker amp.


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> Thanks man! I don't want to make any final comments but so far it falls behind the Yamaha in terms of energy and musicality. Its well balanced with good amounts of everything but it just doesn't have the sparkle, its a bit dull. Trying different DACs now. If it doesn't work out as a headphone amp then it will surely be my primary speaker amp.


 
 Hey no probs bud, but this is always going to be the case - one mans flavour is never going to be for everyone. 
  
 A couple of things I would recommend however, if the amp hasn't been used for some time it may need a good long drive to open up again. I've noticed this before with vintage amps that have sounded dull to begin with, just keep it playing or switched on overnight for instance. Also, a little deoxit on the pots and switches will help you get a cleaner signal. This is very important with older amps and the results can be surprising


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> The Mac is just a whole lot more listenable - warmer, better resolution in the highs without emphasizing them, more body in the upper bass/lower midrange.


 
  
 This also pretty much describes the sound of vintage Sherwood gear - in fact all of them I have heard to date (S-8900A, S-7200, S-7100A, S-7110).  Listening to Diana Krall on a 7100A now and it is magical.


----------



## jnorris

I found a Sherwood S-7xxx at Goodwill for $15.  The manager of the store was pissed off that someone marked it so cheap, but sold it for that price anyway.  I had it for a while then offed it at a tag sale.  I wasn't that impressed.  Must have been the low end of the line.


----------



## joehalo

I must have gotten lucky with my SX-1010. It only had minor static in the push button controls despite them looking filthy. After a good deoxit cleaning they are silent and work perfectly.


----------



## captouch

jnorris said:


> I found a Sherwood S-7xxx at Goodwill for $15.  The manager of the store was pissed off that someone marked it so cheap, but sold it for that price anyway.  I had it for a while then offed it at a tag sale.  I wasn't that impressed.  Must have been the low end of the line.




Did you adjust bias on the unit? I've come across multiple units that didn't sound right or had outright problems (static, distortion) on one channel or both. After adjusting bias current and offset (where applicable, the last Sherwood I worked on didn't have an offset adjust), they sounded so much better.


----------



## SpeakerBox

captouch said:


> Did you adjust bias on the unit? I've come across multiple units that didn't sound right or had outright problems (static, distortion) on one channel or both. After adjusting bias current and offset (where applicable, the last Sherwood I worked on didn't have an offset adjust), they sounded so much better.


 
  
 As you rightly point out, with out the adjustments (and possibly recap) the sound won't be there.  My experience so far is that all the early S-xxxx units sound pretty darn good when restored correctly.


----------



## Skylab

joehalo said:


> I must have gotten lucky with my SX-1010. It only had minor static in the push button controls despite them looking filthy. After a good deoxit cleaning they are silent and work perfectly.




That's excellent. Keep them clean, and exercise them regularly, and you should be fine.


----------



## joehalo

Hopefully I can have Matt recap both my SX-1010 and SX-1980. It's about an 8 month wait


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, Matt does great work, and his reputation has spread, and now his wait is really long. Some of the longer-time techs who do these full restores have wait lists that are YEARS.


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> Hey no probs bud, but this is always going to be the case - one mans flavour is never going to be for everyone.
> 
> A couple of things I would recommend however, if the amp hasn't been used for some time it may need a good long drive to open up again. I've noticed this before with vintage amps that have sounded dull to begin with, just keep it playing or switched on overnight for instance. Also, a little deoxit on the pots and switches will help you get a cleaner signal. This is very important with older amps and the results can be surprising


 
 There is also a fairly large possibility for the vintage piece of electronics to need a long time drive prior sounding acceptable again. If this is observed, you may well have to keep it running 24/7 - as if and when powered down for say a day, it might be "creeping" again to its "present full glory".
  
 The culprit are the electrolytic capacitors - although their value may still be spot on, they just do not have the performance as when new. The only real remedy is recapping - but if (not so inconsiderable) funds are problem, you might wish for 24/7 operation in order to get at least an acceptable sound.  At least to the point when funds allow for recapping - this thread is full of testimonies that all prove it is worth the cost. 
  
 All the above assumes (reasonably) clean contacts and pots - Deoxit ...


----------



## .Sup

analogsurviver said:


> There is also a fairly large possibility for the vintage piece of electronics to need a long time drive prior sounding acceptable again. If this is observed, you may well have to keep it running 24/7 - as if and when powered down for say a day, it might be "creeping" again to its "present full glory".
> 
> The culprit are the electrolytic capacitors - although their value may still be spot on, they just do not have the performance as when new. The only real remedy is recapping - but if (not so inconsiderable) funds are problem, you might wish for 24/7 operation in order to get at least an acceptable sound.  At least to the point when funds allow for recapping - this thread is full of testimonies that all prove it is worth the cost.
> 
> All the above assumes (reasonably) clean contacts and pots - Deoxit ...



Well Ive ran it from yesterday evening over night until today late afternoon when I got home from work. Playing music all that time but the sound is still pretty anaemic and dull. Not sure if if worth recapping at this point, I think its best I sell it and get another Yammie 
Its kind of ironic that HD800 with the NAD aren't bright enough for me...not that the Yammie is bright but its very...sweet sounding with lots of energy. I do get slight hum with HD800 but its so slight and I can only hear when music is paused that it doesn't bother me at all, and even slightly microphonic tubes bother me for example. I initially found a lot of hum with HD800 but its because the loudness know was turned all the way up, hum is in the highest frequencies.

Im not sorry I got the NAD, I really wanted to hear how it sounds but it only confirms I am really into Yamaha's sound signature ever since I got a receiver about 12 years ago.


----------



## analogsurviver

.sup said:


> Well Ive ran it from yesterday evening over night until today late afternoon when I got home from work. Playing music all that time but the sound is still pretty anaemic and dull. Not sure if if worth recapping at this point, I think its best I sell it and get another Yammie
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I agree it is a hard call to decide whether a particular vintage piece is worth recapping - or not. A decent recapping is likely to cost more than the vintage piece of gear acquired at a really good price - so this no longer means it is a low priced solution. Still perhaps the best for the money, but definitely no longer "a $30 amp to drive HD800".
  
 I grew zero tolerance policy for hum - even from the most sensitive phono inputs, let alone a receiver. Because any hum introduces colouration due to intermodulation distorsion, even if not directly audible during (louder) music. Chances the originally fitted capacitors are up to the job today are slim .
  
 I am personally not familiar with Yamaha sound signature, so can not comment on that.


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> Well Ive ran it from yesterday evening over night until today late afternoon when I got home from work. Playing music all that time but the sound is still pretty anaemic and dull. Not sure if if worth recapping at this point, I think its best I sell it and get another Yammie
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup 'anaemic and dul' are the last words I'd use to describe the typical vintage NAD... Especially the PE models with the extra power. But they do have lower impedance out than 70's amps in general and so from my experience the HD800 do sound more full with the typical 70's 120 ohms output.
 Tonality aside, It was only after a lot of comparisons with the NAD's that I realised my Pioneer's and Sansui's were giving out a little too much bloom at the bottom end with the 300ohm Senn's. This can sound great with electronic music or rock but not great with classical (and 95% of my listening is this).
  
 A typical NAD should sound balanced but with a very slight tilt to warmth over neutral. But I must stress that the treble shouldn't suffer any dullness or veil, but quite the opposite. Only there won't be any glare or extra light. 
  
 Anyways, shame you aren't happy with it bud and I feel partly responsible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but because of how you have described the sound it really must need some work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just for the record, I've bought about 20 vintage amps now and only a quarter of them I've been very happy with... It's all part of the game and luck of the draw with these old machines. The outside of them may look great, but its the insides that matter..
  
 Anyway's theres nothing wrong with Yammy's! I had one for a short while and it sounded super! 
  
 Good luck next time and I do hope you keep up the vintage journey as it can be great fun and very rewarding.


----------



## .Sup

lugbug1 said:


> Just for the record, I've bought about 20 vintage amps now and only a quarter of them I've been very happy with... It's all part of the game and luck of the draw with these old machines. The outside of them may look great, but its the insides that matter..




Exactly! I never have high hopes and sometimes I am positively surprised and sometimes not, you are only guilty of giving me good advices! 
I just had to try that NAD and hear how its sounds, worth the money and money has not been lost.
I enjoy using vintage stuff and one thing is for sure - I won't be buying dedicated headphone amps unless its all-in-one with a DAC. They are expensive and while technically they are better I don't get the satisfaction compared to vintage. Vintage is just more fun to listen to and use and to think they belong to a different era, an era I was not a part of and now, I kinda, am puts a nice smile on my face. This has become my fav thread on this forum, very friendly and full of good advices and interesting info/pics.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Best audio thread on the NET IMHO.  Love reading this stuff.


----------



## Gardyloo

I started this on the Introductions Forum, but this thread might be a better place. I re-worded it a bit.
  
 Hi I'm new here (third post). The kids are out of the house now, and I want to listen to my old vinyl records again. None of my equipment has been used for years and I'm looking for suggestions on whether to keep or replace. 
  
 I have a Marantz 2220B Receiver and a pair of ElectroVoice Speakers bought new from Warehouse Sound Company in San Luis Obispo when I graduated from high school in 1975. The Garrard turntable is long gone. The set up had warm powerful sound which used to drive my parents nuts .
  
 The sound of the EV speakers was great, but they're too big for my house now unless they're _really_ worth keeping. They have a 12” woofer, and made good plant stands back in the 1970’s (well protected from water of course) They’ve been stored in my garage. 
  
 The Marantz has always been in the den (unused for at least 15 years).  I'm absolutely sure these items will need some sort of overhaul/tune-up due to age. I vaguely recall some sort of capacitor problem, but these haven't been used together in over 20 years, so I can't recall specifics.  I live in the San Francisco East Bay and have heard there’s a good place in Walnut Creek for repairs. Gotta find out where that is.
  
 So are any of these worth overhauling and using again? I'm thinking yes on the Marantz.  Because of the size and age I'm thinking no on the speakers; can you folks make some recommendations for modern speakers that'd work well with the Marantz? And how about a replacement turntable? I just retired, so I'm trying to keep this project to about $1K.
  
 One caveat: I have some hearing loss and have lost some of my high end hearing; don't need super performance gear because I won’t be able to hear it (and can't afford it anyway). 
  
 Looking forward to your replies and opinions. I understand this is a headphone forum, but came here because several posters were talking enthusiastically about their old equipment. If one of your recommendations is for me to post elsewhere, that's perfectly ok, just tell me where.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Would definitely keep the 2220B. Probably needs a recap and DeoxIt bath though.
  
 What model of Electro Voice speakers are they?


----------



## terry parr

welcome, Gardy!
  
 i think you've found the right thread for some good advice on your specific components.   lots of knowledge about audio components here on this thread (based on experience, not just opinions based on reviews that a friend-of-a-friend has read!)
  
 i can't help you specifically, but just hang tight.  most everybody here are in different time zones, so the replies back won't be instant, but people here are always willing to help and share their knowledge.  they'll start jumping in.
  
 look. ^  (the post just before mine).
  
 it's started already.
  
 welcome back to the fold.  (luckily, quite a lot of older gear was made well, using good components to start with and can still be enjoyed, most times with just minor work. some of this older stuff has qualities that are worth preserving, even if it does need some work).
  
 not quite sure if the younger folks who are buying chinese-made gear these days will be able to enjoy the current stuff after two more generations).


----------



## captouch

gardyloo said:


> I started this on the Introductions Forum, but this thread might be a better place. I re-worded it a bit.
> 
> Hi I'm new here (third post). The kids are out of the house now, and I want to listen to my old vinyl records again. None of my equipment has been used for years and I'm looking for suggestions on whether to keep or replace.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to another Bay Area audio guy.  I'm in the South Bay.  
  
 Unless your receiver has a serious problem, you may be able to fix it yourself.  As others have said, DeOxit will come in handy for dirty controls (volume, tone controls, push buttons).  Since you're retired, the question is whether you want to get into learning some of this stuff yourself.  Things like checking offset/bias and cleaning your controls all aren't very hard.
  
 Post here once you hook it up and let us know if there are any problems with the unit.
  
 Since your receiver is about 20W, your speakers will have to be reasonably efficient if you want to listen at higher volumes or you have a larger room.  I don't know about your speakers - if you post model, we can tell you more.  But since your receiver is lower wattage, keep in mind that it's value (were you to resell) would be lower than that of a higher powered Marantz unit of the same vintage.  My point being that you may not want to spend (say) $200+ to fix/restore it unless you're sure that it's a keeper.  A simple repair by a shop may run you $50-100, and then another bad component may rear it's head soon thereafter.  A full re-cap by a shop will make it more reliable for the longer term, but that may run you >$200.  So before you sink any serious $ into the receiver, consider your speakers first.
  
 If your speakers are working, you should just try them out with the Marantz and see what you think.  They may be fine and sound good - if all drivers are working, you could probably improve sound a bit by putting new capacitors in your crossovers.  This doesn't always help, but often it will if your speakers are old and used electrolytic caps.  Even if a driver appears to be bad, it *could* be a bad cap as well.  Replacing capacitors is also usually pretty straightforward.
  
 As far as TT's, I like the Technics SL series - they seem reliable and sound good.  I have a SL-1700 that I got for about $125 - so they're not very expensive either.  I also have a Dual 1229, but unless it's been serviced well, there are more things that can go wrong.  Save some of your budget for a good cart/stylus if you have a lot of records - you can do fine for <$100 for cart/stylus, but of course you could also spend a whole lot more.  If you have a whole lot of records, a RCM (record cleaning machine) may also make sense.  
  
 If you start to really get into the vintage electronics thing, check out audiokarma as well.  There are a lot of members here that are also there.
  
 If you need any help, feel free to send me a message.  I'd be happy to help if I can.


----------



## Gardyloo

Excellent and helpful comments Captouch. I'm in the Concord area.
  
 The speakers are Electro Voice ETR-18's 12 inch 3-way speakers.The last time they were hooked up many years ago I recall some capacitance cut-out, but it's been a long time. Without a TT, and almost no radio signal here against Mt Diablo, I'm not sure I'll hear anything by hooking them together. I have an old TEAC cassette player, but no cassettes anymore.  Reading on Audiokarma, FWIW they seem to be sneering at the ETR-18 speakers there, which doesn't bother me since I was 18 years old buying the stereo of my dreams back then. 
  
 These days, I want to listen to the LP's on something that sounds decent, not the Crosley reproduction Combo set handed off when my parents moved to a retirement place. My records and that unit have never touched each other. Whatever I decide on, the audio set up will go back in our bedroom sized den, along with LP's, CD's, cookbooks, wine, other assorted media and a comfy chair, so space is limited and my spouse is pushing to get smaller speakers.
  
 Way back when, I used to understand impedance matching and all that stuff I've forgotten. So I ordered a book from the library to bring me up to speed: "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms". I couldn't find a book in Dummies series, so if this one is too technical, I can use it as a sleep aid. But I dunno if I feel like working on the equipment myself. I guess I'm a bit scared I'll screw it up. Funny, I'm not afraid of the bees I keep in the backyard 
  
 Checking around the Bay Area, there's a vintage equipment repair shop in the South Bay, SER Electronics; and a guy in SF, Tone of Music, although he might be out of my price range. I buy a lot on Amazon.com and used equipment is fine if it's decent stuff that will last


----------



## SpeakerBox

A good pair of speakers that don't cost much are found here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker
  
 You may want to consider these (or what ever the latest revision is) as they are small and highly regarded.  I bet they would sound real nice with the 2220B.
  
 Good luck in your search.


----------



## captouch

gardyloo said:


> Excellent and helpful comments Captouch. I'm in the Concord area.
> 
> The speakers are Electro Voice ETR-18's 12 inch 3-way speakers.The last time they were hooked up many years ago I recall some capacitance cut-out, but it's been a long time. Without a TT, and almost no radio signal here against Mt Diablo, I'm not sure I'll hear anything by hooking them together. I have an old TEAC cassette player, but no cassettes anymore.  Reading on Audiokarma, FWIW they seem to be sneering at the ETR-18 speakers there, which doesn't bother me since I was 18 years old buying the stereo of my dreams back then.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't heard them, but I agree with SpeakerBox that the Pioneers would be a good option to check out - good bang for buck I've heard.  If you want to stay vintage, Dynaco A25's are nice sounding classic large bookshelf-sized speakers that would probably run you $200 or so.
  
 No CD player to try and hook up to the Marantz?  If your speakers can't conveniently be hooked up to the receiver, you can also use headphones to see whether you're getting sound out of both channels and roughly what the sound quality is (fine vs distorted, etc).  The headphone output is just a resistor drop from the regular speaker outputs, so if the headphone output is working well, you generally won't have problems with the speaker outputs.
  
 I looked at the service manual for the 2220B - adjusting bias and offset isn't hard since you're just clipping on to pins and turning variable R's, but if you're not comfortable, I wouldn't try it.  People have been known to damage things and I'd hate to encourage you to do something that resulted in a working receiver conjuring smoke and sparks.  
  
 I've heard good things about Sertech, but never used them.  If you're ever in the South Bay and want to tote the receiver, I could help you with these adjustments.


----------



## Silent One

gardyloo said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 There's also Stereo Doctor in San Ramon. I'm a former and satisfied customer.


----------



## Gardyloo

Thanks for the tips about the Pioneers, I'll have to check them out. I especially liked the review comparison to the Wharfedales, those were some I've also heard rave reviews about. I need to check their power requirements.


----------



## captouch

I've never done a real comparison of my receivers and integrateds, so with the prodding of a friend, I'm going to do some A/B comparisons of five 25-30W SS and tube receivers/integrateds, and throw in a couple of 50-55W receivers and maybe one 12W tube integrated (not sure about the last one - may not be a fair fight, but would even up the numbers).
  
 The lightweight contenders will be:
 Marantz 1060
 Yamaha CA-600
 Sony STR-6055
 Fisher KX-100
 Scott LK-72
  
 The middleweights thrown into the mix will be:
 Sansui Eight Deluxe
 Mac 1900
  
 The one flyweight that may be thrown in to even up the numbers:
 Harman Kardon A300
  
 I'm going to pair up two units as color coded in the spreadsheet, A/B compare them, and declare a "winner".  The winners will move on to complete with another winner, and so on, until there's only 1 left.
  

  
 Disclaimer: Not all units are recapped, power tubes are not all the same brand/vintage in the tube units (though I think all 12AX7 preamp tubes are all Teles and most coupling caps are K40 PIO's), and outcome will be influenced by speakers used, my preferred sound, etc.  So this is just for fun, not to conclude that one unit is inherently better than the other.  And it's occurred to me that I may not be able to discern big differences and may end up saying "they all sound good", but hopefully not.  Testing won't be blind, but I don't have any biases I'm aware of (i.e. I don't really care which one comes out on top).
  
 I'm leaning toward using Yamaha NS-690 II speakers as my test speakers, though IMF RSPM IV's will be connected to the amp/speaker switch as well, so I may listen to those as a secondary comparison.
  
 Other speakers I could use instead of the Yamahas are IMF TLS 50 II's, Wharfedale W70E's, or ESS amt-1b's, but I'm thinking the Yamahas will be the most neutral/flat to compare characteristics of the receivers/integrateds as much as possible, instead of having the characteristics of the speakers dominate.
  
 I'm open to suggestions on methodology or using other test speakers than the Yamahas.  I plan to do this tomorrow. . .


----------



## roadcykler

speakerbox said:


> A good pair of speakers that don't cost much are found here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker
> 
> You may want to consider these (or what ever the latest revision is) as they are small and highly regarded.  I bet they would sound real nice with the 2220B.
> 
> Good luck in your search.


 
 They are highly regarded but I don't know why. I bought a pair at Best Buy last year and they were on sale for $99. The reviews I read were all positive (in hindsight, the reviews were all from professional reviewers/publications) and I know BB has a good return policy so I figured what the heck. I got home and excitedly set them up, turned on the receiver and was prepared to be wowed, except I wasn't. To my ears they lack treble by a noticeable margin. After a while, I even called my wife (who sometimes wonders what was wrong with the boom box we had many years ago as a "home stereo") into the room to listen, and with no input from me she said, "It seems like a lot of the high parts are missing". I took them back the next day. And please, don't talk to me about "burn in", it doesn't exist but one's ears and brain do become accustomed to to a particular sound.
  
 All that to say, make sure what ever you buy comes from someplace with a good return policy or better yet, don't buy until you can hear them in a store or someone else's house.


----------



## LugBug1

captouch said:


>


 
 Great idea captouch! I shall be tuning into this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes neutral speakers will be best me thinks. Also, maybe 5 pieces of music across the board- rock/pop, orchestral, piano, electronic, Jazz/acoustic?
  
 enjoy! 
  
 For some reason I'm imagining an X Factor type panel with Skylab, Moody, PheonixG, SpeakerBox, analogsurviver.... And me and Silent One hosting the show hahah (yes I really should get out more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## SpeakerBox

roadcykler said:


> To my ears they lack treble by a noticeable margin.


 
  
 Wow. that is interesting.  What were you driving them with?


----------



## PhoenixG

lugbug1 said:


> Great idea captouch! I shall be tuning into this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Loving the shoutout! And yeah,I do have a number of those or their brothers within 30ft. I'm eager to see what you think captouch. At the very least, you will have a great day!


----------



## jring

gardyloo said:


> Without a TT, and almost no radio signal here against Mt Diablo, I'm not sure I'll hear anything by hooking them together. I have an old TEAC cassette player, but no cassettes anymore.


 
  
 Hi,
  
 you could also just take a 1/8 inch to cinch adapter and hook up your cellphone to aux or so for a quick test...
  
 Joachim


----------



## Gardyloo

Good ideas! Sounds like this weekend's project


----------



## jgreen16

This could be someone's weekend (or two) project. Yikes!
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-MC7270-/281381859119?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4183aa6f2f


----------



## roadcykler

speakerbox said:


> Wow. that is interesting.  What were you driving them with?


 
 At the time I had a vintage Sansui 8080db which has plenty of power.


----------



## buson160man

jgreen16 said:


> This could be someone's weekend (or two) project. Yikes!
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-MC7270-/281381859119?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4183aa6f2f


 

  Wow I bet the person who owns this monster was really upset when he saw what happened to it. Wow the husband must have done something pretty bad for his wife to react like she did ( a hammer no less). The power supply on this monster is really impressive looking isn't it? That is why these beefy amps are such a struggle to move around. I know my concept 16,5 receiver is a real struggle to move around. But I imagine the mac amp is even heavier based upon the photos shown in the ebay listing.
    Good luck to the buyer it looks to be a real challenge o restore this monster amp.


----------



## ssrock64

I had a listen to a Sansui QRX-6001 quad-channel receiver yesterday, which I know exceedingly little about. It was dusty like it had just been pulled out of somebody's basement, but it worked flawlessly and didn't have any static crackle while turning the knobs. Can anybody point me in the direction of a fair price for the thing?
  
 The seller also had a Fisher 250 (as well as a later Fisher I can't recall), a Scott of some sort, and a couple other silverface pieces lying around.


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey there, they seem to go for $100-200 online. A fair price for a large amount of iron. Also a low barrier for someone looking for a DIY project. Have fun with it.


----------



## Oregonian

Saw one of them locally on craigslist recently listed for $300 OBO.


----------



## captouch

It's not the same model, but I sold a QR-6500 on CL for $200.


----------



## BobG55

As of today, I am the proud new owner of a Fisher 500C which I purchased on ebay.ca.  I should get it sometime next week. *I'd like to thank moodyrn* for taking time to respond to my questions & suggesting some very good advice which helped me in this purchase.  I'm looking forward to sharing my views on this amp.
  
 Ladies & Gentlemen, it is my pleasure to introduce to you, my new addition :


----------



## jgreen16

That is a really sweet looking Fisher Old Groucho. Congrats!


----------



## BobG55

jgreen16 said:


> That is a really sweet looking Fisher Old Groucho. Congrats!


 
 Thanks jgreen16.


----------



## Silent One

jgreen16 said:


> That is a really sweet looking Fisher Old Groucho. Congrats!


 
 +1...Bravo!!!


----------



## buson160man

That fisher really is a pretty looking unit. Nice walnut case and it looks to be in pretty immaculate condition. I am sure you will be proud of it.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats Old Groucho! That's a really great looking fisher. I'm sure you will get plenty of enjoyment out of it. I enjoy mine immensely.


----------



## BobG55

silent one said:


> jgreen16 said:
> 
> 
> > That is a really sweet looking Fisher Old Groucho. Congrats!
> ...


 
 Thanks Silent One.


----------



## BobG55

buson160man said:


> That fisher really is a pretty looking unit. Nice walnut case and it looks to be in pretty immaculate condition. I am sure you will be proud of it.


 
  


moodyrn said:


> Congrats Old Groucho! That's a really great looking fisher. I'm sure you will get plenty of enjoyment out of it. I enjoy mine immensely.


 
 Thanks to all of you.  I know I'll enjoy it also.  You're right buson160man, it's looks to be in good shape & the other 500Cs that I saw online did not come with the walnut case.  The seller had a 57 transactions history on ebay with %100 positive feedback & when I communicated with him he was quite pleasant.  I made him an offer less than the asking price & he countered with a small increase which I considered pretty descent on his part considering the initial asking price & as pointed out by you guys, the appearance of the unit.  Overall, I'm happy with the purchase & anxious to get it, listen to it & share my impressions on this thread.


----------



## SpeakerBox

That Fisher looks off the charts awesome!


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> That Fisher looks off the charts awesome!


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> That Fisher looks off the charts awesome!




Wow it sure does! That era of Fisher is just awesome. Congrats Old Groucho!


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> speakerbox said:
> 
> 
> > That Fisher looks off the charts awesome!
> ...


 
 Wow, with all of the accolades I'm more confident than ever that I scored pretty good on this one.  Thanks very much Skylab.


----------



## ssrock64

phoenixg said:


> Hey there, they seem to go for $100-200 online. A fair price for a large amount of iron. Also a low barrier for someone looking for a DIY project. Have fun with it.


 


oregonian said:


> Saw one of them locally on craigslist recently listed for $300 OBO.


 


captouch said:


> It's not the same model, but I sold a QR-6500 on CL for $200.


 

 Thanks, guys. Asking price was $100, so I'll see what I can do with it.


----------



## Silent One

bobg55 said:


> Thanks Silent One.


 
 You're most welcome. Last autumn, I nearly bought a mint 500c from a cat just 30 minutes away. Came with original Manual, carton...everything. Based on input from moodyrn, I was prepared to pay the premium price asked.
  
 And then...




  
 ...the seller got COLD feet and removed his listing. Decided he couldn't part with it at the time.


----------



## LugBug1

I can barely type here Im so drunk but groucho babes thats one hell of a buy!! congrats bud


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well, I got up this morning and see a Marantz 2270 listed on CL for $150.  I am thinking this will be gone real fast - or there is something real wrong with it.  I contact the seller and get over there as fast as I can.  It is not hooked up to anything - so can't be demoed (forgot my phones in the rush), but the cosmetics were mint and it powered up fine.  I put down the $150 and took it home. Plugged in the phones and sure enough no sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but heard the relay click.  So I start looking around and discover the pre-out/main-in jumpers are missing.  After connecting some patch cords she is up and running!!!  After a recap if it beats the 1250 (doubtful) it stays and I sell the Pioneer, if not I sell the Marantz (maybe).  Got my work cut out for me (in a good way).


----------



## Oregonian

Or you become obsessed like most of us and keep them both..........


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Or you become obsessed like most of us and keep them both..........


 
  
 The thought has crossed my mind more than once today.


----------



## ssrock64

A band I follow recently posted this on their Instagram page, and when somebody asked about the Marantz they said it was a $30 Goodwill purchase. If it's in as good shape inside as it looks outside, that's quite the steal!
  

  
 EDIT: The band


----------



## BobG55

silent one said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Silent One.
> ...


 
 That really stinks Silent One.  I can just see you, all anxious & just waiting to put your hands on that baby just to have it pulled away at the last minute = major bummer.  Do you check ebay periodically ?  I don't know what the premium price was for the one you mentioned but I've seen a couple on ebay that are in pretty good shape; one in particular has been serviced & according to the seller is in perfect working condition.  Good luck if you're still looking for one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


lugbug1 said:


> I can barely type here Im so drunk but groucho babes thats one hell of a buy!! congrats bud


 
 LugBug1 *LOL !!!!*  I truly appreciate it.  Have on for me buddy.


----------



## jgreen16

speakerbox said:


> Well, I got up this morning and see a Marantz 2270 listed on CL for $150.  I am thinking this will be gone real fast - or there is something real wrong with it.  I contact the seller and get over there as fast as I can.  It is not hooked up to anything - so can't be demoed (forgot my phones in the rush), but the cosmetics were mint and it powered up fine.  I put down the $150 and took it home. Plugged in the phones and sure enough no sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Why can this never happen to me? Any time I see Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, etc. type stuff on Craigslist, it seems to always be roached out, and the seller thinks it is worth the highest price he has seen on e-bay for the same model.


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> Well, I got up this morning and see a Marantz 2270 listed on CL for $150.  I am thinking this will be gone real fast - or there is something real wrong with it.  I contact the seller and get over there as fast as I can.  It is not hooked up to anything - so can't be demoed (forgot my phones in the rush), but the cosmetics were mint and it powered up fine.  I put down the $150 and took it home. Plugged in the phones and sure enough no sound
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Great deal & beautiful amp.  Back in '79 I bought a 2238B brand new with Castle Speakers & a Phillips turntable : it was my first "good" stereo set.  I loved that receiver especially the "look" (of those 70s Marantz). I remember it had a rich, full sound with excellent bass.  From what I've read the 2270 is a favourite amongst vintage receiver collectors.  Congratulations Speakerbox.


----------



## PhoenixG

I may have semi-accidentally agreed to buy a (maybe) working pioneer sx-1080 from a guy who was selling something else entirely (but I happened to see the amp). I'll put up pics from the doghouse where I'll undoubtedly be staying until it's gone again haha.


----------



## jgreen16

Yeah, the 2270 is a nice unit, as is the 2245. I've always been kind of partial to the later Marantz B receivers, and have had a 2238B, 2285B, and 2330B at one time or another. I still kick myself for selling the 2330B. It had a mint faceplate, and sounded beautiful. The only problem was that it needed a new wood case, as the one it came with had seen much better days.


----------



## jgreen16

Speaking of the 2245, I was just browsing the auction site and came across a listing where the seller said the 2245 he had "looked like it came out of a time capsule".


 I wonder who in the time capsule swapped out the original faceplate bolts for the Phillips head screws!


----------



## Silent One

> Originally Posted by *Old Groucho* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> That really stinks Silent One.  I can just see you, all anxious & just waiting to put your hands on that baby just to have it pulled away at the last minute = major bummer.  Do you check ebay periodically ?  I don't know what the premium price was for the one you mentioned but I've seen a couple on ebay that are in pretty good shape; one in particular has been serviced & according to the seller is in perfect working condition.  Good luck if you're still looking for one


 
 I was really ok about the whole thing. I too, sometimes change my mind just before listing something I feel I might regret. He was conveniently nearby and on CL. Having just sold my Sansui G-22000, not really in the market for anything until I resume working.
  
 The interest for the '500c' came right on the heels of moodyrn enlightening the thread about the Fisher's wonder. Talk about timing! But not looking to get one specifically. If anything, I'm gonna save my money and look to make a return purchase from the buyer with a _sweetener. _


----------



## captouch

A pic of my Sony STR-6055 since I took it out of its shelf today.  A friend was kind enough to give me this unit (in exchange for some work I did on his other receivers), and a parts unit where this case and faceplate came from.  So the case and nice faceplate were swapped onto the working unit and I fixed the parts unit (just rerouted around a bad power switch), which is now a garage unit.
  
  

  
 There's something special about these Sonys - they sound really good.  My friend ended up missing this Sony and bought himself a nice 7055, which he's enjoying now.
  
 Here's an updated picture of my CA-600 after I refinished the case.  I belt-sanded off the fake woodgrain vinyl, stained it red chestnut, and put a couple of layers of tung oil varnish on it.


----------



## captouch

Here's an update of the receiver/integrated battle I posted that I was going to do a few posts ago.  First a picture of the contestants - the Sony is missing, but it's in the post above.  Again, I used Yamaha NS-690 II's as my test speakers, volume matched as best as I could with a iPhone SPL app, used several music cuts of different genres and styles.
  

  
*Round I, Match I (SS Integrateds):*
  
*Yamaha CA-600 (original) vs Marantz 1060 (restored):*
  
 Close match, but the Marantz seemed to have a bit larger soundstage, a touch more realism/dimensionality vs the Yamaha.  The Yamaha had stronger bass on a couple of tracks.  Not a mismatch by any means, even though the Yamaha had the disadvantage of being original vs the Marantz which was fully restored.
  
*Winner: Marantz 1060*
  
*Round I, Match II (Tube Integrateds):*
  
*Scott LK-72 (restored) vs Fisher KX-100 (restored):*
  
 Quite different sound signatures, even though both used the same preamp tubes and were restored with many of the same caps (K40 PIOs all over in Scott, K40 PIOs and K73's in Fisher).  The Scott seemed much more the tubey unit, it was more mid-centric, fatter sound, a bit rolled off, less separation.  The Fisher had a wider soundstage, more airy and extended, more sense of dimension and separation, better imaging.  Both are pleasing in their own way, but my preference was the Fisher.
  
*Winner: Fisher KX-100*
  
  
*Round I, Match III (Receivers):*
  
*Mac 1900 (original) vs Sony STR-6055 (original):*
  
 I was originally going to pit the Mac 1900 vs the Sansui Eight Deluxe given their similar (and greater than the rest) power ratings, but I got lazy in removing the 8D from its shelf, so faced these two off instead.  I've read that Sony was trying to compete with Mac on their early receivers, so this seemed like an OK match anyway.
  
 Quite different sound signatures once again.  The Mac had a much sweeter, mellower sound, arguably a bit veiled, but fuller sound - very euphonic.  Vocals were more diffuse than focused.  This sometimes sounded better (Coltrane's sax on some test tracks), and you would never say the Mac was fatiguing.  The Sony seemed clearer with more transparency, more extended on the top, wider soundstage - just more detail and PRaT on percussion.
  
 I'm not sure whether McIntosh designed the sound to be this way, or it's a reflection of how the caps have aged over time.  This would be a flavor preference and it also might be a matter of synergy with speakers.  But I had a hard time giving the Mac the win given how far it seemed to be from neutral.
  
*Winner: Sony STR-6055*
  
  
*Round I, Match IV (Leftovers):*
  
*Sansui Eight Deluxe (original) vs Harman Kardon A300 (restored):*
  
 I finally got off my butt and disconnected the 8D and brought in the A300 even though it had less than 1/3 of the power of the 8D.
  
 The HK seemed to have a bit more depth to soundstage, dimensionality, more air/delicacy, perhaps a bit more detail.  But it also had less weight, with the 8D seeming to have more substance and was more dynamic/punchy.  In the end, I personally preferred the more dynamic punchy sound of the 8D in this case.
  
*Winner: Sansui Eight Deluxe*
  
  
*On to round II. . .*
  
*Round II, Match I:*
  
*Marantz 1060 vs Fisher KX-100:*
  
 A very close match actually.  Both were well balanced, neutral, nice detail, soundstage, air.  The Marantz at time seemed just a bit punchier, while the Fisher seemed to be a bit more airy and have the more holographic sound.  Subtle differences, but the Fisher just seemed to have a bit more "magic" in the sound.
  
*Winner: Fisher KX-100*
  
  
*Round II, Match II:*
  
*Sony STR-6055 vs Sansui Eight Deluxe:*
  
 Also very close, as in they sounded much alike.  In the end, the Sony seemed just a bit richer and more detailed, but just very slightly.  Just a bit more air, with percussion (hi hats, brushes) just a bit more splashy/present.
  
*Winner: Sony STR-6055*
  
  
*The Final:*
  
*Sony STR-6055 vs Fisher KX-100:*
  
 Well, unfortunately, this was somewhat inconclusive.  There was some volume fluctuation, despite my efforts to use signal tones, SPL meter, etc.  First one channel of one was just a bit louder, than the other, and it seemed to change a bit over time, which made things harder.  When I'd think one was coming out ahead, I found it was just a tad louder than the other.  I brought my 8-yr old daughter (and her better hearing) into the mix, and she preferred the Fisher, but it's really hard for me to say at that point that the Fisher wasn't a bit louder.
  
 This was done over two days, but still, by the end of this, I was pretty fatigued from all the careful listening, swapping of gear, wires, etc.  So rather than fight with the volume issues further, I left it as co-winners.  The Sony was the best SS by a hair, and the Fisher was the best tube by a bit more than that.  Some time it would be fun to face them off again, with more people involved to give their opinions.
  
 I think it's impressive that the unrestored Sony could be in the same ballpark as a fully restored, tube classic like the Fisher.  But it did, so cheers for both winners.
  

  

  
 The usual disclaimers apply - just reflective of my preferences in my environment, with these particular speakers.  But it was a fun couple of days.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bobg55 said:


> Great deal & beautiful amp.  Back in '79 I bought a 2238B brand new with Castle Speakers & a Phillips turntable : it was my first "good" stereo set.  I loved that receiver especially the "look" (of those 70s Marantz). I remember it had a rich, full sound with excellent bass.  From what I've read the 2270 is a favourite amongst vintage receiver collectors.  Congratulations Speakerbox.


 
  
 Thanks much.  Can't wait to hear what a recap and service manual adjustments do to the sound.


----------



## SpeakerBox

captouch said:


> The usual disclaimers apply - just reflective of my preferences in my environment, with these particular speakers.  But it was a fun couple of days.


 
  
 Well done captouch! I think I will end up doing something like this to decide between my 1250 and 2270.


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm glad to hear that I'm not far off on what I've been saying for a while. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Great experiment and impressions.
 Welcome to the Sony side of the street!


----------



## captouch

phoenixg said:


> I'm glad to hear that I'm not far off on what I've been saying for a while.   Great experiment and impressions.
> Welcome to the Sony side of the street!




Yeah, I hear the 6060F and 6120 may sound even better. I think people just have an image of Sony based on how mainstream they are today, and don't immediately think of them when they think vintage. But seriously good stuff to be sure.


----------



## Skylab

Great post, Captouch! Yep, the Fisher KX-100 is a fine, fine piece of kit. No doubt.


----------



## Silent One

captouch said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the wonderful round of audio infotainment.


----------



## Gardyloo

silent one said:


> Thanks for the wonderful round of audio infotainment.


 
 So true! Lots of fun to see and hear about the goodies.


----------



## Silent One

gardyloo said:


> So true! Lots of fun to see and hear about the goodies.


 
 Absolutely! Sometimes when I peruse Head-Fi, I get the feeling some members might be apprehensive about making similar contributions. Perhaps, out of fear their eval won't be accurate enough, technical enough. In my view, I'd simply like to hear more about personal experiences our members have inside their listening rooms. How one plays around and experiment with gear could prove fascinating.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Do any of you ever find yourself enjoying your vintage gear more than your high-end stuff?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  There is just something about vintage that is so much fun!
  
 The look and feel, the build quality, and the warm enveloping sound to name a few.


----------



## Silent One

But...what if our vintage gear IS high-end stuff? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I could certainly make the case with my Shindo Laboratory kit.


----------



## SpeakerBox

silent one said:


> But...what if our vintage gear IS high-end stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Then you have the best of both worlds!


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Do any of you ever find yourself enjoying your vintage gear more than your high-end stuff?  :eek:  There is just something about vintage that is so much fun!
> 
> The look and feel, the build quality, and the warm enveloping sound to name a few.




Very regularly, actually. My vintage rig gets used much more than my high end rig, which I assembled over a decade before I got into vintage. I simply like listening to music more on the vintage rig, although I enjoy my high end system as well.


----------



## mr.khali

To gain some space on my desk I have been thinking of selling my Sansui amp for one of the newer headphone amps out now like the Oppo HA 1 or Teac HA 501.  I wonder how they would compare.  Maybe I will buy one and do a comparison.  I still have a Luxman set in the living room so I would not be completely deserting the vintage sound.


----------



## Xenophon

speakerbox said:


> Do any of you ever find yourself enjoying your vintage gear more than your high-end stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My listening time at home is divided almost equally between the SX-1980 and an el-cheapo tube amp.  I've more expensive gear that objectively performs much better (certainly than the tube amp) but price and accuracy don't seem to be determining factors for enjoyment.


----------



## SpeakerBox

xenophon said:


> I've more expensive gear that objectively performs much better (certainly than the tube amp) but price and accuracy don't seem to be determining factors for enjoyment.


 
  
 Agree 100%


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Very regularly, actually. My vintage rig gets used much more than my high end rig.


 
  
 I am finding this to be the case with me also - although the high-end gear won't be going anywhere any time soon.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I don't know if any of you have seen this, but here is a link to a page where a guy has collected many of the old Sherwood Receivers.  Pretty cool!
  
 http://www.adayandalife.com/sherwoods.htm
  
 Hmmmm... Maybe I should do this?  I already have the 8900A.


----------



## CrocCap

Top - S-3000IV, S-5500II
 Middle - S-5000II
 Bottom - S-7910
  
 also have an S-2100II that i got after this pic.


----------



## Silent One

Nicely presented, CrocCap. Are you not worried about the weight on the top-shelf?


----------



## .Sup

Its me and my NAD again. I want to thank LugBug for his input on the amp and ultimately convincing me to get it for my HD800. Something has changed 100%. 
Heres the story. I didn't like the amp, it wasn't good with any of the headphones I own. I even left it about 30 hours playing non stop with headphones plugged in. 
Then I connected the amp to speakers, an older Wharfedale Modus One that were never playing on nominal level, either too low (I listen to music on low level when I go to sleep) or on too high level (used it on a couple parties). After a couple minutes I was scratching my head why does it sound better on these mediocre speakers but so bad on high end HD800. I left it play with speakers for a couple hours until I connected HD800 again. Wow. So good. Exactly what I wanted to hear - energy, no brightness, huge level of detail (very surprising) and meaty bass! I didn't get this kind of bass from any headphone amp I own. Not a hollow bass presentation but actual speaker type bass! What has happened? I don't know. The transformer is connected to headphones and maybe more power that drove the speakers made the amp alive? It could also be the fact that i had opened the amp and dusted it just before I connected it to speakers. 
I don't know but I know I have found the perfect amp for my HD800. With these I never had problems with brightness but the bass was never satisfactory and the sound was too hollow. 

Very happy and Low level feature is very nice, eliminates channel imbalance and for a change its nice to go past 10 o'clock rather than trying desperately to avoid channel imbalance at 7 o'clock. Now off to try to find a vintage TDA1541 DAC.


----------



## Silent One

@ .Sup

You gotta be feeling r-e-a-l g-o-o-d!!!


----------



## jasonb

speakerbox said:


> A good pair of speakers that don't cost much are found here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-loudspeaker
> 
> You may want to consider these (or what ever the latest revision is) as they are small and highly regarded.  I bet they would sound real nice with the 2220B.
> 
> Good luck in your search.


 
 I know this post is a few days old now, but I was reading this thread, catching up, and saw your mention of the Pioneer BS22's. I've had a pair since January in a nearfield setup and they are a very good speaker. Especially good if you can find them on sale somewhere for under $100, I paid the full $130 for mine and they are still well worth that. In a nearfield configuration they won't require much power, but I have about 65 watts per channel on tap for mine from an Emotiva Mini-X. I ran them from a Pioneer SX-750 before this amp. They are just amazing little speakers in my opinion. This is of course my first nearfield rig, so it's been a whole new experience. They are good by themselves, but even better with a small subwoofer to fill in below 60hz. My setup is heavily EQ'ed to get rid of peaks and nulls from my room, but even before that they sounded great.


----------



## MIKELAP

speakerbox said:


> Do any of you ever find yourself enjoying your vintage gear more than your high-end stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Having choices is so much fun and sometimes not to expensive have been enjoying my SX750 for almost a year now and sounds great still .And dont you just love those tone controls


----------



## .Sup

silent one said:


> @ .Sup
> 
> You gotta be feeling r-e-a-l g-o-o-d!!!


Yes, thank you, I do!


----------



## SpeakerBox

croccap said:


> Top - S-3000IV, S-5500II
> Middle - S-5000II
> Bottom - S-7910
> 
> also have an S-2100II that i got after this pic.


 
  
 That is just beautiful!


----------



## SpeakerBox

mikelap said:


> Having choices is so much fun and sometimes not to expensive have been enjoying my SX750 for almost a year now and sounds great still .And dont you just love those tone controls


 
  
 Make use of the tone controls on the 1250 all the time.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jasonb said:


> I know this post is a few days old now, but I was reading this thread, catching up, and saw your mention of the Pioneer BS22's. I've had a pair since January in a nearfield setup and they are a very good speaker. Especially good if you can find them on sale somewhere for under $100, I paid the full $130 for mine and they are still well worth that. In a nearfield configuration they won't require much power, but I have about 65 watts per channel on tap for mine from an Emotiva Mini-X. I ran them from a Pioneer SX-750 before this amp. They are just amazing little speakers in my opinion. This is of course my first nearfield rig, so it's been a whole new experience. They are good by themselves, but even better with a small subwoofer to fill in below 60hz. My setup is heavily EQ'ed to get rid of peaks and nulls from my room, but even before that they sounded great.


 
  
 Don't have a pair, but have read the many favorable reviews.  At some point I will get some in to try.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Make use of the tone controls on the 1250 all the time.




Pioneer's dual-stage tone controls are just awesome. I use the 50 Hz / 20 kHz controls on my SX-1980 very regularly.


----------



## jww187

Hey all, I've been lurking around this thread for a long time as I've looked for my first vintage piece.  Anyway, I just came across the freebie, Yamaha C-6 preamp, from a customer that I installed a surround sound system for and hadn't used it in years.  There was some static in the volume and balance control and the power light wasn't working, but with a good amount deoxit no more static and the light is working.
  
 I didn't have very high expectations, but I'm seriously impressed after several hours of listening.  It drives my T1's beautifully and I can listen for hours without any fatigue that I've experienced with some other amps.  Surprisingly to me, it powers my HE-500s exceptionally well, great soundstage and bass impact, all the detail is there but the sound is just so smooth and effortless.
  
 I listened mostly with the EQ bypassed, but it's a pretty interesting feature.  I've never seen on with the slides, level, and bandwidth adjustments.  Works well when I've used.
  
 So, does my 1980ish Yamaha preamp get me in the vintage club?  Anyone else have any experience with this model?


----------



## jasonb

jww187 said:


> Hey all, I've been lurking around this thread for a long time as I've looked for my first vintage piece.  Anyway, I just came across the freebie, Yamaha C-6 preamp, from a customer that I installed a surround sound system for and hadn't used it in years.  There was some static in the volume and balance control and the power light wasn't working, but with a good amount deoxit no more static and the light is working.
> 
> I didn't have very high expectations, but I'm seriously impressed after several hours of listening.  It drives my T1's beautifully and I can listen for hours without any fatigue that I've experienced with some other amps.  Surprisingly to me, it powers my HE-500s exceptionally well, great soundstage and bass impact, all the detail is there but the sound is just so smooth and effortless.
> 
> ...


 
 That's a pretty neat piece of gear. I like the 2 band PEQ. Yamaha has always made good stuff.


----------



## jww187

jasonb said:


> That's a pretty neat piece of gear. I like the 2 band PEQ. Yamaha has always made good stuff.


 
  
 I've never seen one like it before on any other Yamaha pieces, but it seems to work really well.  You pick the frequency with the slider then adjust the level and bandwidth of the filter with the knobs below.  You can use the buttons to apply one, the other, or both bands.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just started looking at this thread, and with it pushing close to 13k posts, I doubt I'd ever read it all.  Any suggestions on a good starting point for getting into vintage receivers?  I know the Pioneers are well respected, as well as good looking.  I'm just not sure what would be a good lower model to start looking at.  Would the SX-450 be good, or a 550, or should I aim for at least the 600s.  My most taxing headphones are the HE-400 and HD700.


----------



## captouch

saoshyant said:


> Just started looking at this thread, and with it pushing close to 13k posts, I doubt I'd ever read it all.  Any suggestions on a good starting point for getting into vintage receivers?  I know the Pioneers are well respected, as well as good looking.  I'm just not sure what would be a good lower model to start looking at.  Would the SX-450 be good, or a 550, or should I aim for at least the 600s.  My most taxing headphones are the HE-400 and HD700.


 
  
 What's your budget, what speakers will you be using, and do you want want a certain sound signature (warm/rolled off, dead neutral, etc)?


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm aiming more for using it for the headphone out as well as plugging an old Stax SR-44 into it, but might also be plugged into a pair of Pioneer SP-FS51-LR.  Nothing great I know, but it's what I have.  As far as sound sig, I am utterly not picky, I kind of listen to a wide variety, so there's give and take with it all.  For budget, I'd prefer to aim for 300 or less.


----------



## captouch

saoshyant said:


> I'm aiming more for using it for the headphone out as well as plugging an old Stax SR-44 into it, but might also be plugged into a pair of Pioneer SP-FS51-LR.  Nothing great I know, but it's what I have.  As far as sound sig, I am utterly not picky, I kind of listen to a wide variety, so there's give and take with it all.  For budget, I'd prefer to aim for 300 or less.




Being in Austin, you should check out Sound Gallery to get an idea of various models and their characteristics, cosmetics, etc. They sell restored gear from what I understand, so if that aspect (being restored) is important, you may find something there. No idea about their prices though.

Another thing you can do is become a subscriber to Audiokarma ($25), and post a want-to-buy in Bartertown. There are a couple regular members I can think of there, and most vintage enthusiasts have extra gear they don't mind selling to fund their next purchase. 

I wouldn't limit yourself to any one brand unless you have a specific reason to seek out that brand. Sansui, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, Luxman, Kenwood, Sony, etc - just about all the '70s gear from those brands would probably get you what you're looking for.


----------



## buson160man

One of my fellow headfiers brought up a very interesting idea. My concept 16.5 receiver has a jumper plug between the preamp and amp section  He suggested the possibility of using my audio research preamp with the concept 16.5s amp section to drive my lcd2 v2s . I think these old receivers take their headphone output off the amplifier section through a load resistor to pare down the amplifier output for headphone use. I am not a tech but would this work? I do not want to blow my lcd2s . Any suggestions about the feasibility of this would be appreciated .


----------



## captouch

buson160man said:


> One of my fellow headfiers brought up a very interesting idea. My concept 16.5 receiver has a jumper plug between the preamp and amp section  He suggested the possibility of using my audio research preamp with the concept 16.5s amp section to drive my lcd2 v2s . I think these old receivers take their headphone output off the amplifier section through a load resistor to pare down the amplifier output for headphone use. I am not a tech but would this work? I do not want to blow my lcd2s . Any suggestions about the feasibility of this would be appreciated .




That should work fine. The idea is to improve sound quality by using the AR preamp in place of the built ih Concept preamp, correct? I would try it both ways and see what you like better, as the Concept pre should already be quite good in a TOTL unit like that. Just watch the volume setting on the preamp before plugging in your good phones. If you have a cheaper pair, you can always try those first. It shouldn't be necessary if you're using the headphone out, but it never hurts to be cautious,

When you're messing with the pre out/main in jacks/jumpers, I'd do that with the unit off to be safe and the headphones not plugged into the jack. I'd also leave the headphones out until after you've powered up the receiver and pre. Sometimes power on produces a spike/pop through speakers (or headphones), and best not to subject your LCDs to that either. Your units may not do that, but some do.


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> One of my fellow headfiers brought up a very interesting idea. My concept 16.5 receiver has a jumper plug between the preamp and amp section  He suggested the possibility of using my audio research preamp with the concept 16.5s amp section to drive my lcd2 v2s . I think these old receivers take their headphone output off the amplifier section through a load resistor to pare down the amplifier output for headphone use. I am not a tech but would this work? I do not want to blow my lcd2s . Any suggestions about the feasibility of this would be appreciated .


 
 Hey there. That's definitely something that could work! No problem. But why?
 If you're just needing inexpensive power, that's all well and good. If you're looking to be able to use a remote control on your newer preamp, I totally understand and think it's a great idea. Otherwise, you'd be losing many of the functions from your vintage amp apart from the power. You might find that you're adding steps without adding function/value.
  
 Either way, if you do it,  make sure you test it with something robust that can handle power before you plug in your headphones. There will likely be a minor volume difference just because of the different controls on each preamp. Also, DON'T LOSE THOSE JUMPERS! They are a pain to replace and are the reason about 1/3rd of "broken" amps have the lights on but nobody home (no sound).
  


saoshyant said:


> I'm aiming more for using it for the headphone out as well as plugging an old Stax SR-44 into it, but might also be plugged into a pair of Pioneer SP-FS51-LR.  Nothing great I know, but it's what I have.  As far as sound sig, I am utterly not picky, I kind of listen to a wide variety, so there's give and take with it all.  For budget, I'd prefer to aim for 300 or less.


 
 In that budget, you can get some really nice gear. I would advise you to find a brand you're cool with and try to get the best item you can from them. Pioneer might be out of reach as far as getting a great one, but don't discount a great realistic (STA-2100D or STA-2000D) or a great sony (STR-6060, STR-6065, STR-6055, STR-6200f).
 I know I'm just a random guy on the internet, but maybe I can get everyone else to back me up on this method. The TOTL / almost TOTL units will sound better, be better made (_really important_), hold value better, and do more things. If you go for a less popular good brand, you can get closer to/all the way to TOTL within your budget.


----------



## jgreen16

phoenixg said:


> Also, DON'T LOSE THOSE JUMPERS! They are a pain to replace and are the reason about 1/3rd of "broken" amps have the lights on but nobody home (no sound).


 
 Yes, the original jumpers can be a pain to replace with the "correct" ones, but regular RCA cables work fine for the job if you're looking to test something that doesn't have them, or don't care about originality.
  
 When I purchased my Pioneer Spec-1 and SPEC-2 system back in the late 70's, Pioneer supplied RCA cables to connect the two. For the receivers that use the jumpers, you can find correctly spaced ones on e-bay that are not OEM, but most of them seem a bit overpriced for what they are.


----------



## LugBug1

.sup said:


> Its me and my NAD again. I want to thank LugBug for his input on the amp and ultimately convincing me to get it for my HD800. Something has changed 100%.
> Heres the story. I didn't like the amp, it wasn't good with any of the headphones I own. I even left it about 30 hours playing non stop with headphones plugged in.
> Then I connected the amp to speakers, an older Wharfedale Modus One that were never playing on nominal level, either too low (I listen to music on low level when I go to sleep) or on too high level (used it on a couple parties). After a couple minutes I was scratching my head why does it sound better on these mediocre speakers but so bad on high end HD800. I left it play with speakers for a couple hours until I connected HD800 again. Wow. So good. Exactly what I wanted to hear - energy, no brightness, huge level of detail (very surprising) and meaty bass! I didn't get this kind of bass from any headphone amp I own. Not a hollow bass presentation but actual speaker type bass! What has happened? I don't know. The transformer is connected to headphones and maybe more power that drove the speakers made the amp alive? It could also be the fact that i had opened the amp and dusted it just before I connected it to speakers.
> I don't know but I know I have found the perfect amp for my HD800. With these I never had problems with brightness but the bass was never satisfactory and the sound was too hollow.
> ...


 
 Phew! I knew there must have been sumin up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Soooo pleased you're happy with it now bud. Yeah after trying quite a few vintage amps with the HD800, the NAD's sound spot on to me.
  
 I would still give it a little deoxit as well bud, as the cleaner the switches and pots then the cleaner the signal - might improve even more! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Very easy to do 
  
  
  
@captouch loved the Vintage contest. Don't think I'll ever find a Fisher my neck of the woods for a low enough price, but I'm keeping a look out for the Sony 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 (been on hols, and now catching up on loads of great posts


----------



## joehalo

Just finished cleaning up my latest score. A beastly Yamaha CR-2020.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Those Yammys are sure Gorgeous.  Conrats!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well here is an interesting find.  I bought a Sony ns999es DVD, SACD, CD player off of CL (incredible sound and highly modifiable) this past week to use with my main system.  While there we got talking about vintage audio and I mentioned that I restore some of the old gear.  Next thing I know he says he has and old piece in his basement that he was going to fix, but now wants to give it to me:
  

  

  

  
 It turned out to be a Superscope QR 450.  In rough shape.  Bent controls, peeling veneer, some bulbs out, and a cut power cord.  That said I attached a new cord and am getting nice sound from three of the four channels.  When I get some of the other stuff off my bench I will have to dig into this one and see what I can do with it.  Interestingly - at the time this was made Superscope was the parent company of Marantz.


----------



## Silent One

Yummy Yammy...congrats joehalo!


----------



## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> It turned out to be a Superscope QR 450.  In rough shape.  Bent controls, peeling veneer, some bulbs out, and a cut power cord.  That said I attached a new cord and am getting nice sound from three of the four channels.  When I get some of the other stuff off my bench I will have to dig into this one and see what I can do with it.  Interestingly - at the time this was made Superscope was the parent company of Marantz.


 
 That's one I've never seen before. Can somebody fill me in?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Wish I could, but I have not had time to research it yet.
  
 Edit: 4x10 WPC or 2x25 WPC.  Apparently it is pretty rare.


----------



## PhoenixG

That is a very retro look. Nice purple color haha.
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> It turned out to be a Superscope QR 450.  In rough shape.  Bent controls, peeling veneer, some bulbs out, and a cut power cord.  That said I attached a new cord and am getting nice sound from three of the four channels.  When I get some of the other stuff off my bench I will have to dig into this one and see what I can do with it.  Interestingly - at the time this was made Superscope was the parent company of Marantz.


----------



## Silent One

I don't ever recall seeing purple illuminate displays on receivers. Maybe the owner replaced the bulbs...or I need to get out more.


----------



## SpeakerBox

silent one said:


> I don't ever recall seeing purple illuminate displays on receivers. Maybe the owner replaced the bulbs...or I need to get out more.


 
  
 This model actually did have a pink-purple look to the display.


----------



## moodyrn

A little late to the party, but what an awesome writeup and comparison Cap! And Joe those yammies are stunning!


----------



## joehalo

Thanks! I'm having a very tough time deciding which to keep and which to sell. My SX-1010 or the CR-2020....


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm on the opposite end, debating how much to spend on my first vintage setup


----------



## Oregonian

joehalo said:


> Thanks! I'm having a very tough time deciding which to keep and which to sell. My SX-1010 or the CR-2020....




Keep. Them. Both.


----------



## DanPluck

oregonian said:


> Keep. Them. Both.




This


----------



## Skylab

That's what I would do as well!!!

If it factors in at all, the SX-1010 can probably be kept running forever, even if it occasionally needs work. The Yamaha has a significant number of uncontainable parts, and so it's a bit less likely to be relied on over the long haul, although of course one never knows.


----------



## buson160man

Well I tried preamping   my concept 16.5 with my audio research preamp. I used my lcd2 v2s and I felt a bit mixed with the results .It could be that I need another nordost heimdall interconnect to go from the dac to the audio research preamp. But right now I am tapped out so at least for now I am going back to the concept unit preamp section. But I have found that the 16.5 works really well with my akg 701 phones. In fact I felt they sounded better than my lcd v2s with the 16.5 . I am really enjoying the 701s with this beast. I am going to upgrade the fuses in the 16.5 next when things get a little better for me financially .


----------



## BobG55

bobg55 said:


> As of today, I am the proud new owner of a Fisher 500C which I purchased on ebay.ca.  I should get it sometime next week. *I'd like to thank moodyrn* for taking time to respond to my questions & suggesting some very good advice which helped me in this purchase.  I'm looking forward to sharing my views on this amp.
> 
> Ladies & Gentlemen, it is my pleasure to introduce to you, my new addition :


 
 It's here !!!!!  Got it today. As promised earlier I will share my impressions right now. The sound is absolutely incredible.  As specified by *moodyrn *the soundstage on this amp is simply out of this world.  I started out listening to the album "The Information" by Beck w/HD800s & instinctively I knew just by the sound that, although quite good, the Fisher 500C was made for my other Senns pair the infamous HD650s.  If I ever read or hear again about the HD650 veil that person is going to hear from me.  I have owned the HD650 for 5 years & I have never, I repeat never heard them shine like this before. I remember reading a review last year stating that with the HD650 you can hear the guitarist's fingers touching the guitar strings & I remember thinking "well ok, I like my HD650s but let's not go to extremes".  Well that was before the Fisher 500C : I can hear every little detail & sounds/instruments that seem new & believe me I know this album by heart.  Even the familiar sounds are so much more pronounced & there is no distortion whatsoever.  Every single instrument, voice, sound is separate, clear & completely transparent -& oh … that soundstage ! There are no low key or high key sound roll offs.  
  
 For the remainder of today I will be in audiophile Nirvana, so if anyone else reading this gets there also today, please don't be alarmed if you notice a decrepit looking form floating in the sound atmosphere; it's only the "Old Groucho" hovering aimlessly over the sublime sound stratosphere (drugs & alcohol free I may add 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  What an amp.


----------



## captouch

That's awesome Old Groucho.  Fisher's are awesome and that looks to be in great condition.  I haven't tried my HD650 with my KX-100 yet.


----------



## BobG55

Thanks *captouch*.  The picture is from ebay/seller (I don't have a digital camera) & yes, the 500C _is_ in amazing condition.  I'm not familiar with the KX-100 but if it sounds anything like the 500C don't walk, run to your system & try out the HD650.  It's an amazing experience.


----------



## moodyrn

I knew you would love it, I'm really glad you received it in great condition. One of the reasons it's a great pairing with the 650 is it's neutrality along with out of the world transparency. It's as neutral as any ss amp I've listened to, and even more transparent than most. It's special. As far as the kx100 go, it's an awemsome amp as well. But sounds completely different than the 500c. It's warm, lush, romantic and euphoric sounding. It might be too much of a good thing with the 650s. But it will absolutely make the hd800s sing, and is a better match for those. But the 500c is great for pretty much anything.


----------



## BobG55

moodyrn said:


> I knew you would love it, I'm really glad you received it in great condition. One of the reasons it's a great pairing with the 650 is it's neutrality along with out of the world transparency. It's as neutral as any ss amp I've listened to, and even more transparent than most. It's special. As far as the kx100 go, it's an awemsome amp as well. But sounds completely different than the 500c. It's warm, lush, romantic and euphoric sounding. It might be too much of a good thing with the 650s. But it will absolutely make the hd800s sing, and is a better match for those. But the 500c is great for pretty much anything.


 
 +1 (I'm an expert now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## captouch

moodyrn said:


> I knew you would love it, I'm really glad you received it in great condition. One of the reasons it's a great pairing with the 650 is it's neutrality along with out of the world transparency. It's as neutral as any ss amp I've listened to, and even more transparent than most. It's special. As far as the kx100 go, it's an awemsome amp as well. But sounds completely different than the 500c. It's warm, lush, romantic and euphoric sounding. It might be too much of a good thing with the 650s. But it will absolutely make the hd800s sing, and is a better match for those. But the 500c is great for pretty much anything.


 
  
 Maybe I need to get a 500C as well.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, but don't sell the kx100 short. I had the x100c(same amp, different faceplate), and loved it. I only sold it after acquiring the 500c. But the person I sold it to said it best  his mulit-thousand dollar modern tube amp. I loved it with my he-6, and sometimes I do miss it. It had a very pleasing and unique tonality to it that many tube amps today just can't duplicate. But on the other hand, it went better with some speakers and headphones than others. But once you find a good paring, it's just wonderful. The 500/800c were just different animals. They were redesigned to go head to head with mcintosh tube amps and did very well in that regard.


----------



## captouch

I need to try the KX-100 on my Alon II's.  On paper, they won't do great together since they require so much power.  But it's worth a try since the Alons so revealing and I don't listen a high volume most of the time anyway.


----------



## LugBug1

Hah, I love it when peeps are blown away with these old amps! 
  
 Congrats Groucho, I am jelly on a plate!! I'd give one of my wifes legs to have one of those bad boys...


----------



## BobG55

lugbug1 said:


> Hah, I love it when peeps are blown away with these old amps!
> 
> Congrats Groucho, I am jelly on a plate!! I'd give one of my wifes legs to have one of those bad boys...


 
 LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Thanks LugBug1.  If you send me a picture of your wife we might bargain/barter.


----------



## claybum

That's a beautiful 500c Groucho. Congrats!!! I would love to own one some day....perhaps pushing some Klipsch Cornwall. But I would need a bigger house for that dream to come true.


----------



## BobG55

claybum said:


> That's a beautiful 500c Groucho. Congrats!!! I would love to own one some day....perhaps pushing some Klipsch Cornwall. But I would need a bigger house for that dream to come true.


 
 Hey thanks *claybum*.  I hope you do get one.  I was somewhat lucky : first & foremost as you pointed out it is indeed beautiful/in great shape & the seller was also Canadian = no Customs duty to pay (which would have been an extra $175 - $200) + I was able to talk the seller down to $75 less than he was asking.  I had to look up "Klipsch Cornwall" which I now know are speakers.  I can see the 500C pushing a pair of those.  As for you needing a bigger house in order to put in all this stuff : just build an addition, a "Man Cave" with all your toys in it; even if it turns out to be bigger than your house itself ….


----------



## PhoenixG

bobg55 said:


> I had to look up "Klipsch Cornwall" which I now know are speakers.  I can see the 500C pushing a pair of those.  As for you needing a bigger house in order to put in all this stuff : just build an addition, a "Man Cave" with all your toys in it; even if it turns out to be bigger than your house itself ….


 
 Speakers the size of your average fireplace. And probably the best speakers I have ever listened to. You need a fairly large room to keep them in, but they aren't too fussy.


----------



## LugBug1

bobg55 said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> Hey there. That's definitely something that could work! No problem. But why?
> If you're just needing inexpensive power, that's all well and good. If you're looking to be able to use a remote control on your newer preamp, I totally understand and think it's a great idea. Otherwise, you'd be losing many of the functions from your vintage amp apart from the power. You might find that you're adding steps without adding function/value.
> 
> Either way, if you do it,  make sure you test it with something robust that can handle power before you plug in your headphones. There will likely be a minor volume difference just because of the different controls on each preamp. Also, DON'T LOSE THOSE JUMPERS! They are a pain to replace and are the reason about 1/3rd of "broken" amps have the lights on but nobody home (no sound).
> ...


 

  Inexpensive power ? These rare old vintage monsters are not cheap when you are buying one that has been recapped. Why ? Well at least with the concept it has an abundance of power compared to most any headphone amp. This baby just lopes when driving headphones The loudest position on the volume is at the 9 oclock position. That is the loudest I dare listen .The concept never gets hot just mildly warm when driving my headphones. Plus the sonics on offer are a bit better than you think . In fact for clarity the sound is actually pretty good it also has a sense of dimensionality as well. Of course the bass is also pretty good as well . I am going to upgrade the fuses in the concept with some isoclean fuses. I would have preferred hifi tuning supreme fuses but they do not make 7amp fuses . The concept 16.5 uses two 7 amp line fuses . I do know if there are other fuses inside the amp under the covers but the two on the back panel are accessible .
     Also you are obviously not familiar with the concept brand. It was a premium house brand marketed by Pacific Stereo chain about 35 years ago . The 16.5 was the top of the line offering. It produces 165 watts rms per channel with both channels driven.  It was also one of the only true dual mono power supply receivers produced. The pioneer models even there top of the line models were not truly dual mono designs.
    From what I have read the pioneers tended to sound a bit muddy in the bass. That is something the concept does not do .
 There are blogs on the internet about the greatest receivers that mention the concept 16.5 as one of the best vintage receivers ever made .
      I will post some  reactions to the fuse upgrades when I explore that action.


----------



## jgreen16

Here is a link to an interesting thread on Concept equipment restoration that I came across a few weeks ago.
  
http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=7909


----------



## jgreen16

And a variety of resto threads on the same forum:
  
http://www.tapeheads.net/forumdisplay.php?f=143
  
http://www.tapeheads.net/forumdisplay.php?f=144


----------



## BobG55

lugbug1 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL
> ...


 
*LugBug1*, now that I've had time to think about the whole thing I decided I couldn't do that to you, so no deal.  Good lu….. errrrr…. my condolence……. errrrr…….  all the best to you buddy.


----------



## BobG55

phoenixg said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > I had to look up "Klipsch Cornwall" which I now know are speakers.  I can see the 500C pushing a pair of those.  As for you needing a bigger house in order to put in all this stuff : just build an addition, a "Man Cave" with all your toys in it; even if it turns out to be bigger than your house itself ….
> ...


 
 Oh, now I understand your original statement.  You'd probably have to move to an isolated area also ie. no neighbourhood when you blast those babies.


----------



## Saoshyant

Ok, so given I'm thinking of getting into vintage receivers and I'm quite sure I would not be the one to do repairs and such, can anyone give me an estimate how much things like recaps and such cost? I know this isn't going to be cheap, but I'm also utterly clueless, so before I pick anything up I'd just like an idea of what I might be getting myself into. I know prices will be different everywhere, but just a generalized estimate would be quite helpful to get. I'm assuming it'd cost a couple hundred to get a receiver back into good shape. Thanks in advance!


----------



## SpeakerBox

saoshyant said:


> Ok, so given I'm thinking of getting into vintage receivers and I'm quite sure I would not be the one to do repairs and such, can anyone give me an estimate how much things like recaps and such cost? I know this isn't going to be cheap, but I'm also utterly clueless, so before I pick anything up I'd just like an idea of what I might be getting myself into. I know prices will be different everywhere, but just a generalized estimate would be quite helpful to get. I'm assuming it'd cost a couple hundred to get a receiver back into good shape. Thanks in advance!


 
  
 Depending upon the complexity (size/power) of the unit I would say anywhere from $200 to $1000.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm mainly looking at finding a sx650 for now.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> I'm mainly looking at finding a sx650 for now.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-650-35-WATTS-RECEIVER-TESTED-WORKING-/321443031289?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4ad77f68f9


----------



## Saoshyant

I was looking at http://www.ebay.com/itm/301245846539?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AMEBIDX as well


----------



## LugBug1

saoshyant said:


> I was looking at http://www.ebay.com/itm/301245846539?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AMEBIDX as well


 
 That looks pretty good to me. A full restoration with quality parts and a pretty good price. Yup  You have to think of what you could buy in equivalent these days..? Nothing will come close. 
  
 (plus I've read that the older odd numbered Pioneers are supposedly better...


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> I was looking at http://www.ebay.com/itm/301245846539?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AMEBIDX as well


 
 That's a great looking amp & it's fully restored & upgraded.  The seller has 66 transactions w/100% positive feedback.  You also have the option of probably paying less with the "Make an Offer" option.  Finally you live in the States so unlike someone like me ie. Canadian, you don't have any Customs duties or taxes to pay.  As I already stated the amp also looks great/like new = if you have the $ = it seems like a pretty good overall deal to me, IMHO.


----------



## Saoshyant

Bought it, I've heard great things about these for both speakers and headphones. I really didn't need it, but it'll be useful.


----------



## LugBug1

saoshyant said:


> Bought it, I've heard great things about these for both speakers and headphones. I really didn't need it, but it'll be useful.


 
 Nice one  
  
 Keep us informed with pics and impressions


----------



## Saoshyant

I hope my headphones like this receiver, I must admit I'm excited.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> Bought it, I've heard great things about these for both speakers and headphones. I really didn't need it, but it'll be useful.


 
 Congratulations.  You'll enjoy it I'm sure.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





lugbug1 said:


> Nice one
> 
> Keep us informed with pics and impressions


 
 +1 for "Keep us informed w/pics & impressions" (Grabbing some popcorn before *LugBug1 *hogs it all).


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> Inexpensive power ? These rare old vintage monsters are not cheap when you are buying one that has been recapped. Why ? Well at least with the concept it has an abundance of power compared to most any headphone amp. This baby just lopes when driving headphones The loudest position on the volume is at the 9 oclock position. That is the loudest I dare listen .The concept never gets hot just mildly warm when driving my headphones. Plus the sonics on offer are a bit better than you think . In fact for clarity the sound is actually pretty good it also has a sense of dimensionality as well. Of course the bass is also pretty good as well . I am going to upgrade the fuses in the concept with some isoclean fuses. I would have preferred hifi tuning supreme fuses but they do not make 7amp fuses . The concept 16.5 uses two 7 amp line fuses . I do know if there are other fuses inside the amp under the covers but the two on the back panel are accessible .
> Also you are obviously not familiar with the concept brand. It was a premium house brand marketed by Pacific Stereo chain about 35 years ago . The 16.5 was the top of the line offering. It produces 165 watts rms per channel with both channels driven.  It was also one of the only true dual mono power supply receivers produced. The pioneer models even there top of the line models were not truly dual mono designs.
> From what I have read the pioneers tended to sound a bit muddy in the bass. That is something the concept does not do .
> There are blogs on the internet about the greatest receivers that mention the concept 16.5 as one of the best vintage receivers ever made .
> I will post some  reactions to the fuse upgrades when I explore that action


 
 Decent vintage can easily be had for a fraction of a new TOTL piece's price. Sure my collection may cost thousands, but to get the same quality from new stuff would be tens of thousands or more.
 I like them, but they are truly relatively inexpensive. Trust me, I am a true believer in vintage. I think the things I have, or have owned are often every bit as good if not better than almost any new piece under a very high price point.
 I'm sure your receiver is very good and I'm glad you have something you like. Here are a few things I like, that once they are all back from storage/restorations, will look great in my new home. (because everyone likes photos)

  

  

  

  
  
  

  
 I don't think there is more than $20k there, but for comparison, here are some new pieces that I could never afford.
 ###
  

 $250K

 Dual mono, new, $7k
 
 These are the speakers to which all others are compared. $7k
  
 Or you can get this entire system for the bargain basement price of just (let's say) $3000. 
 Best I've ever heard, btw.

 If the shoe fits...
  
 On an aside, it's a joke among my friends that the worst thing that could happen is that the Mrs. sells everything for what I say I have in to them haha.


----------



## Silent One

Ooh...that G-9000 looks gorgeous!


----------



## Oregonian

saoshyant said:


> Bought it, I've heard great things about these for both speakers and headphones. I really didn't need it, but it'll be useful.




Congrats man!


----------



## Saoshyant

Thanks! Around 260 shipped, and assuming the resto job on it cost 200, 60 for a receiver and shipping seems quite good


----------



## jgreen16

silent one said:


> Ooh...that G-9000 looks gorgeous!


 

 I think the SX-1980 looks more gorgeouser!


----------



## groovyd

what speakers are those with the planar drivers? they look nice!


----------



## PhoenixG

silent one said:


> Ooh...that G-9000 looks gorgeous!


 
  
  


jgreen16 said:


> I think the SX-1980 looks more gorgeouser!


 
  
 Cheers guys. Thanks! I know inexpensive is relative and I wanted to throw out some perspective. For about the cost of a pizza on the town, you can occasionally get a really decent vintage receiver. That's why I looove vintage. New home for them is West of Seattle. The 1980 is being refurbed by mattsd on AK right now, and everything else is in boxes until we close on our beautiful new house.
 Speaking of, is anyone going to the Seattle meet? If there's demand, I'd consider going with the str-6120.


groovyd said:


> what speakers are those with the planar drivers? they look nice!


 
 Those are infinity primus speakers. Really the best out there at any price. They have a good set of trickle down technologies that let some of their drivers show up on cheaper models, but damn fine speakers in their own right. Just slightly better than Klipsch Cornwalls in terms of sound quality, but much much more sensitive. Only require 10W to shine, vs about 40 for the cornies.


----------



## Saoshyant

Just had a bad thought, I really hope this receiver doesn't arrive in the condition a receiver I bought a couple years ago did.  The back of it was caved in pretty badly, just messed up beyond any reasonable hope for repair.  Annoyingly the shipping company wanted to deal with the sender, and the sender had left on a 2 week vacation.  I eventually just drove the receiver to whichever company it was that shipped and eventually had to raised hell until I got someone to actually help.  Didn't help that was like 0 padding inside the packaging for it.  I was quite disappointed.


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> Decent vintage can easily be had for a fraction of a new TOTL piece's price. Sure my collection may cost thousands, but to get the same quality from new stuff would be tens of thousands or more.
> I like them, but they are truly relatively inexpensive. Trust me, I am a true believer in vintage. I think the things I have, or have owned are often every bit as good if not better than almost any new piece under a very high price point.
> I'm sure your receiver is very good and I'm glad you have something you like. Here are a few things I like, that once they are all back from storage/restorations, will look great in my new home. (because everyone likes photos)
> 
> ...


 

  Wow you have a really nice collection of some vintage equipment .


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, came across a minor issue with my order. The seller called me today saying he put in the wrong info for shipping estimate, which didn't surprise me given the $12 shipping cost from Cali to Texas, and asked if it'd be ok if I sent an extra $20 to help cover part of the cost, it actually being $52. The way I see it, mistakes happen, and I'm still getting a good value, so all in all I can't complain.


----------



## claybum

I must finally confess....I have a new piece.
  
 This is my recapped and restored SX1250 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  

  
  

  
 It sounds quite good pushing my HPM 1500 ( I don't listen to headphones any more). The bass on the 1250 is a bit ramped up compared to my Kenwood model 600 (which is what I was usually listening too before the Pioneer showed up) and has more texture, detail and nuances. Overall I'd say the Kenwood and Pioneer  have about the same resolving capabilities (except the bass). The Kenwood is very neutral as is the Pioneer and I like that. However, the 1250 has that Pioneer magic, or slight coloration and authority which probably resides in the bass and slightly sparkly treble. Hard to put into words. A lovely piece of gear that I am pleased to own.


----------



## SpeakerBox

claybum said:


> I must finally confess....I have a new piece.
> 
> This is my recapped and restored SX1250
> 
> ...


 
  
 Enjoying the heck out of mine.  Noticed the bass improved quite a bit after I recapped it.


----------



## LugBug1

saoshyant said:


> Well, came across a minor issue with my order. The seller called me today saying he put in the wrong info for shipping estimate, which didn't surprise me given the $12 shipping cost from Cali to Texas, and asked if it'd be ok if I sent an extra $20 to help cover part of the cost, it actually being $52. The way I see it, mistakes happen, and I'm still getting a good value, so all in all I can't complain.


 
 That is a bit naughty of the seller, after all, a deal is a deal. But as you say, it is a bargain and ofcourse he will know this. But the good news is, is that he is making sure that the shipping costs are covered rather than going for the cheapest option available. And there will be $12 options with some companies. You also have contact with the seller which is always a good thing. I always keep buyers informed from start to finish and I always appreciate it when I'm buying too. 
  
 Also, it would be very rare for someone 'in the know' (and they certainly seem to considering all the restoration info provided) to badly package an amp. I would rest easy bud, it'll get to you in good shape I'm sure 
  


claybum said:


> I must finally confess....I have a new piece.
> 
> This is my recapped and restored SX1250


 
 Sweet mary queen of all things vintage, thats one bad ass of a SX'y Pioneer buddy! 
  
 Recapped and restored you say aswell..?? 
  
 Well I never


----------



## Saoshyant

lugbug1 said:


> That is a bit naughty of the seller, after all, a deal is a deal. But as you say, it is a bargain and ofcourse he will know this. But the good news is, is that he is making sure that the shipping costs are covered rather than going for the cheapest option available. And there will be $12 options with some companies. You also have contact with the seller which is always a good thing. I always keep buyers informed from start to finish and I always appreciate it when I'm buying too.
> 
> Also, it would be very rare for someone 'in the know' (and they certainly seem to considering all the restoration info provided) to badly package an amp. I would rest easy bud, it'll get to you in good shape I'm sure


 
  
 I chatted with him a little on the phone when he called to inform me, he apparently pops his head in on this forum from time to time, as well as restores audio equipment as a hobby, so I'm confident I'm getting a good deal.  I was actually feeling slightly apprehensive about the cheap shipping until he called.  This purchase is really going to drive me towards spending 300-500 on a turntable, I know it.  It'll be nice to feel more inclined towards listening to my records again.


----------



## .Sup

Wow clay, that SX looks like it just came from the factory! Enjoy it!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, and it bet it sounds that good, or better!!! Congrats indeed...I love knowing another classic Pioneer will be in service for many years to come.


----------



## BobG55

claybum said:


> I must finally confess....I have a new piece.
> 
> This is my recapped and restored SX1250
> 
> ...


 
*Claybum : *glad you came out of the closet & finally confessed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously, congratulations that 1250 is classic & a beauty.  Happy for you.  Hope you enjoy it for many music sessions to come.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> Well, came across a minor issue with my order. The seller called me today saying he put in the wrong info for shipping estimate, which didn't surprise me given the $12 shipping cost from Cali to Texas, and asked if it'd be ok if I sent an extra $20 to help cover part of the cost, it actually being $52. The way I see it, mistakes happen, and I'm still getting a good value, so all in all I can't complain.


 
 Hi Saoshyant, I had a similar experience a few weeks ago when I bought my Fisher 500C off a seller on ebay.ca.  He was asking for $950 CDN & I made an offer of $850 CDN which he accepted.  He advertised the shipping as free.  Then he sent me a message saying that the shipping was more expensive than he expected and would I pay half of it which turned out to be $25 CDN (total cost $50 for shipping). I could have argued that he advertised the item as shipping for free but considering the shape the amp was in (which is a similar case for you) & the fact that he initially came down $100 I figured that all in all a $75 CDN reduction overall was still a pretty good bargain.  I also took into consideration other 500Cs that were for sale on ebay for much more money & in less good technical/aesthetic shape than the one I had just bought.  IMHO you scored a great looking amp & at a darn good deal in the end.  Enjoy


----------



## Saoshyant

I even have good condition vintage headphones to go with the receiver.  I really hope I like the look of the receiver in person as much as I did the pictures.  I expect as with a lot of older mechanical objects I'll have to do some research on a good repair shop in town, but it'll be an investment that could very well be worthwhile depending on how much I like the sound.


----------



## buson160man

Those old pioneers sure look pretty .


----------



## codgerhiker

I posted this in the Help forum & got only 2 replies, one suggesting repair was never a a good option (really?), one suggesting I buy a much newer HK 3390.  I rather think that the vintage owners in this group will know more about older receivers & may steer me right.   
  
 "I have a 20+ year old Denon DRA-435R & a CD player to play my CD's (listening on V-Moda 80 hp's).  On 1st startup, one channel is very low in output + lots of noise.  This gradually gets better over ~ 15 minutes.  I've tried q-tipping the hp jack with oxide remover, that seemed to help, but I think it was just wistful thinking.   Should I drop $150 ish (or more!) at an authorized service center or give it away as a boat anchor & buy something on fleabay
 "


----------



## moodyrn

phoenixg said:


> Cheers guys. Thanks! I know inexpensive is relative and I wanted to throw out some perspective. For about the cost of a pizza on the town, you can occasionally get a really decent vintage receiver. That's why I looove vintage. New home for them is West of Seattle. The 1980 is being refurbed by mattsd on AK right now, and everything else is in boxes until we close on our beautiful new house.
> Speaking of, is anyone going to the Seattle meet? If there's demand, I'd consider going with the str-6120.
> Those are infinity primus speakers. Really the best out there at any price. They have a good set of trickle down technologies that let some of their drivers show up on cheaper models, but damn fine speakers in their own right. Just slightly better than Klipsch Cornwalls in terms of sound quality, but much much more sensitive. Only require 10W to shine, vs *about 40 for the cornies.*


 
 Wow 40 watts for cornwalls? Even Paul Klipsch himself said you only needed 5 good watts to drive them. I had mine on my 25wpc fisher and couldn't even get to 9:00 on the volume knob.  I even had to engage the -20db button on the 9090db I had. Maybe yours have been reworked internally? But congrats on the new house.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Wow 40 watts for cornwalls? Even Paul Klipsch himself said you only needed 5 good watts to drive them. I had mine on my 25wpc fisher and couldn't even get to 9:00 on the volume knob.  I even had to engage the -20db button on the 9090db I had. Maybe yours have been reworked internally? But congrats on the new house.


 
 OK, good catch, maybe 40 is the most I have ever used with them. I was illustrating that newer speakers are slightly more sensitive for more than slightly more money. I doubt that I crack 1W with most normal listening, so many low powered amps are perfectly adequate to sound great.


----------



## LugBug1

codgerhiker said:


> I posted this in the Help forum & got only 2 replies, one suggesting repair was never a a good option (really?), one suggesting I buy a much newer HK 3390.  I rather think that the vintage owners in this group will know more about older receivers & may steer me right.
> 
> "I have a 20+ year old Denon DRA-435R & a CD player to play my CD's (listening on V-Moda 80 hp's).  On 1st startup, one channel is very low in output + lots of noise.  This gradually gets better over ~ 15 minutes.  I've tried q-tipping the hp jack with oxide remover, that seemed to help, but I think it was just wistful thinking.   Should I drop $150 ish (or more!) at an authorized service center or give it away as a boat anchor & buy something on fleabay
> "


 
 You could try opening the amp up and spraying http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeOxit-Cleaning-Solution-Spray/dp/B0002BBV4G on all of the pots and switches as it is likely a build up of oxide if one channel is low. This may be all that a service center might do and you can do it yourself very easily  Theres loads of info on the net on how to do it   
  
 If this doesn't work and the noise is still there, then it may be a faulty capacitor. This is where you do need some skill in finding it and replacing it... If this is the case then I'd probably look for another amp if you are not confident in taking this route. $150 can get you some pretty good vintage stuff if you keep looking on craiglist and fleabay


----------



## moodyrn

phoenixg said:


> OK, good catch, maybe 40 is the most I have ever used with them. I was illustrating that newer speakers are slightly more sensitive for more than slightly more money. I doubt that I crack 1W with most normal listening, so many low powered amps are perfectly adequate to sound great.




The scary thing is, they will actually handle much more than that which is insanely loud. Those things could be used as dj speakers
Lol.


----------



## Skylab

lugbug1 said:


> You could try opening the amp up and spraying http://www.amazon.com/CAIG-DeOxit-Cleaning-Solution-Spray/dp/B0002BBV4G on all of the pots and switches as it is likely a build up of oxide if one channel is low. This may be all that a service center might do and you can do it yourself very easily  Theres loads of info on the net on how to do it
> 
> If this doesn't work and the noise is still there, then it may be a faulty capacitor. This is where you do need some skill in finding it and replacing it... If this is the case then I'd probably look for another amp if you are not confident in taking this route. $150 can get you some pretty good vintage stuff if you keep looking on craiglist and fleabay




Words of wisdom. Also try aggressively working ALL of the pots and switches while the amp is off. Cycle the switches on and off rapidly 20 times each, and rotate the volume control swiftly through its entire range 20 times. If you turn the amp on and it works well right away, then the issue for sure is that the pots or switches need cleaning with deoxit. That at least is an inexpensive fix.

Otherwise, and please don't take offense, but that particular Denon just isn't worth spending a lot of money to fix. It's not that it's a bad unit, I'm sure it can sound quite good, but it's not anything worth investing more money in at this stage of its life. You are better off buying something else, be it a nice vintage piece, or a modern one.


----------



## Lang

Got this one yesterday for 120 CDN from a local craigslist seller


----------



## LugBug1

lang said:


> Got this one yesterday for 120 CDN from a local craigslist seller


 
 Well that looks like a perfect example of what you can get for little money. It's a beauty! I love the black and silver look of those.


----------



## roadcykler

This may have been answered _somewhere_ in this thread, but what is the general time frame for "vintage"? I have a 1980's (not sure of the exact year(s) because I can find almost nothing about them) Mitsubishi pre-amp/tuner and power amp that I'd like to sell but don't really know how vintage that would be considered. I bought it because of the uniqueness and the condition but don't really have a place for them. The model # for the pre-amp/tuner is M-PF5200 and the amp is
 M-A4200 if that helps.


----------



## Skylab

I don't believe there is any sort of agreed upon definition for that as it relates to audio. It was during the 1980's that we first saw mass produced stereos that really truly sucked come into existence, and so typically I think currently most folk think of vintage as being 50's (the beginning of hi-fi) through the early 80's, and maybe even late 80's high-end. 

The real inflection point was when the stuff that Kenwood, Pioneer, Technics, Fisher, and others went from all being pretty good and some being really good to some being really good but most being awful. Depending on the brand that happened sometime in the 1980's, and generally coincided with the rise of the "high end" brands like Audio Research, Mark Levinson, et al.


----------



## jgreen16

New acquisition, and freshly restored. Pioneer SX-950 in overall very good physical condition, with some scratching on the tuning knob. Not bad for getting close to 40 years old.


----------



## jgreen16

I recently sold my Asgard 2 to a fellow Head-fier, and was considering grabbing a Valhalla 2, but the headphone out on this SX-950 sounds pretty darn good. Not sure if I'd get a good return on investment over what this vintage receiver provides at no additional cost.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> I don't believe there is any sort of agreed upon definition for that as it relates to audio. It was during the 1980's that we first saw mass produced stereos that really truly sucked come into existence, and so typically I think currently most folk think of vintage as being 50's (the beginning of hi-fi) through the early 80's, and maybe even late 80's high-end.
> 
> The real inflection point was when the stuff that Kenwood, Pioneer, Technics, Fisher, and others went from all being pretty good and some being really good to some being really good but most being awful. Depending on the brand that happened sometime in the 1980's, and generally coincided with the rise of the "high end" brands like Audio Research, Mark Levinson, et al.


 
 That's an excellent assessment, and to simplify it even further, the golden age for solid state was during the 70s. Typically, the later in that era you go, the more neutral gear got as a whole. While the golden era for tube gear was the early to mid 60s. There are many fans of 50s tube gear, but that's pretty much limited to mono amps and finding a matching pair for stereo  is pretty hard to find. The 80s like Skylab said is pretty much hit or miss, much more so than the 70s. It was this era when  the main objective change from producing the biggest, baddest, best sounding gear to moving as much product as fast as possible. So basically from quality to quantity and the sound suffered as a whole. This led to the birth of high end brands. Before then, they pretty much all(marantz, pioneer, kenwood, sansui etc) were highend brands. Can you actually wrap your mind around the idea of pioneer and mcintosh being equals?


----------



## moodyrn

jgreen16 said:


> New acquisition, and freshly restored. Pioneer SX-950 in overall very good physical condition, with some scratching on the tuning knob. Not bad for getting close to 40 years old.


 
  
  


lang said:


> Got this one yesterday for 120 CDN from a local craigslist seller


 
 Great finds guys and congrats. Both of those are great lookers along with very good sounding as well.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> skylab said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe there is any sort of agreed upon definition for that as it relates to audio. It was during the 1980's that we first saw mass produced stereos that really truly sucked come into existence, and so typically I think currently most folk think of vintage as being 50's (the beginning of hi-fi) through the early 80's, and maybe even late 80's high-end.
> ...


 





 Well stated by both of you. To which I'd like to add history shows the fundamental reason for the shift was the severe economic global crisis from the late 1970's through the early 1980's. Who doesn't like following a good love affair? Japanese Electronic firms had a great one with mass U.S. consumers. But in the same manner of jilted lover, many consumers were strapped during the recession and no longer discriminating. Manufacturers and consumers alike had to dial it down. In my view this gave a natural rise to the high-end audio boutique in the 1980's, catering to those with $$$ and desire.
  
 Of course, I could be completely wrong about my views. But nuthin' a good listening session can't straighten out!


----------



## MIKELAP

How would a Pioneer SA9500 sound compare to an SX750 would it sound similar or a step up Seller is asking $350.00 for this one . Thanks  guys.                                                    .


----------



## Destroysall

To my knowledge, most of the Pioneer receivers and amplifiers retain the same sound, but each unit has a different amount of power it is outputting.


----------



## Silent One

Sound presentation - night and day between my 1977 SX-650 and 1980 SX-D7000. Not surprised.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, pioneer vintage gear do have different sound signatures. And quiet a few of their integrates have been said to be warm sounding(sa9100 for example). The sx-xx50 line have one sound with the sx-xx80 line being just a bit more neutral, but still very similar. The line preceding those were a bit more warm. And these are just examples of their  receivers. Their integrates have their own sound sigs also. Some of them are similar to some of their receivers and some are not. But internally, their integrates are completely different from their receivers for the most part.
  
 But the short answer to the original question, yes!! The 9500 would be a good deal better. Don't look at the power ratings. Their receivers were more powerful as a whole, but sx750 don't have anywhere near the build quality and of the 9500 which is a beast and was one of their  higher end integrates while the sx750 was on the high side of the entry level receivers, but still very good sounding.


----------



## LugBug1

There was a difference between my SX550 receiver and SA508 integrated. Both where around the same price range, but the receiver was warmer and smoother with a heavier bottom end. The 508 was more sprightly and resolving. The latter is from the late 70's and the former around the mid 70's.


----------



## moodyrn

Pioneers being bright as a whole is just as much a misconception as all marantz being really warm. To me the fact that there are different sound signatures within each brand adds to their appeal and the chase. And the reason why every time I say I'm done, something on my short list comes available and I can't resist. I had said I really wanted either the ma6200 or the sa9800. I did end up scoring the ma6200 first, but I must admit that I still badly want a  9800.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I would say my SX1250 is brighter than most other gear I have had in house - but not overly bright, and very detailed.  Trust me, it won't be going anywhere (and it is not even fully recapped yet - two boards to go - and the main filter caps need replacing too).  Only one piece on my short list is the 500C - who knows if I will ever get that chance.


----------



## MIKELAP

Thanks guys for your imput much appreciated . Now where would i put it, that is the question.Like they say if theres a will theres a way


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> Pioneers being bright as a whole is just as much a misconception as all marantz being really warm. To me the fact that there are different sound signatures within each brand adds to their appeal and the chase. And the reason why every time I say I'm done, something on my short list comes available and I can't resist. I had said I really wanted either the ma6200 or the sa9800. I did end up scoring the ma6200 first, but I must admit that I still badly want a  9800.




Totally agree. There is nothing bright about my SX-1980. It's not voiced lush or romantic, but it's definitely not bright. If it departs from neutral I would say it's just a very slight touch warm in the lower mids. 

And like you brother Moody, I also still lust after an SA-9800


----------



## roadcykler

skylab said:


> Totally agree. There is nothing bright about my SX-1980. It's not voiced lush or romantic, but it's definitely not bright. If it departs from neutral I would say it's just a very slight touch warm in the lower mids.
> 
> And like you brother Moody, I also still lust after an SA-9800


 
 Not cosmetically great but maybe an option.
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SA-9800-VINTAGE-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-/111408692277?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item19f079bc35


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! But that guy is dreaming...no way he gets $750 for a unit in that condition. I would pay $750 for a fully restored one in mint condition. As has been discussed a few times in this thread, integrateds sell for much less than the receivers, oddly.


----------



## claybum

I paid $450 off cl for this 9800 a couple years ago and quite happy to own this piece. Looking to get it restored when finances permit.
  

  
 I see people trying to get big bucks for these on ebay. In my opinion, sonically, not worth it. Now...A full restore might change my mind


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah with a couple of exceptions like the au-20000. It's basically the integrated version of the g9000 but fetch for a lot more. For some reason, they seam to fetch g22000 type money. It is a gorgeous amp though. As beat up as that 9800 is, I wouldn't pay half of that. I would buy a cometically mint piece of gear that didn't work before  I would buy a working beat up one. One rule of thumb...."most" of the times you can get most amps/receivers repaired. But once something is beat to hell, you can't get that back.


----------



## moodyrn

claybum said:


> I paid $450 off cl for this 9800 a couple years ago and quite happy to own this piece. Looking to get it restored when finances permit.
> 
> 
> 
> I see people trying to get big bucks for these on ebay. In my opinion, sonically, not worth it. Now...A full restore might change my mind


 
 A couple of years ago, that was the going rate for them. There were two in my area for around the same price. They stayed on craigslist for a few of months. For some reason, the price of these have just exploded. And now, I'm really kicking myself for not pulling the trigger. I was thinking I could get one for that price or cheaper anytime. Well....that didn't turn out to be the case. Maybe it was the thread over at ak were a few were saying it bested both the 1250 and 1280. But I do really like the topology. It's basically a class A amp without the heat. A very unique design.


----------



## Skylab

Clay bum that one looks quite nice. 

There was a really beautiful fully restored one on AK about a year ago that I just missed. Still bummed out about it.


----------



## claybum

Yeah, prices have exploded on these and it must be a few rave reviews. I am really curious about getting it restored and comparing it to my higher end restored units. At this point it is not quite on par. But as we all know, comparing restored units to unrestored is not fair....and I really do like the amp.
  
 I have a guy in mind locally to do the work, I own a KA 8100 he restored and I believe he does good work. 
  
 If I ever let it go, you 2 (Skylab and Moody) have first dibs. Perhaps an arm wrestling match to determine the winner


----------



## Skylab

LOL! Yeah definitely give one of us first shot, that'd be grand.


----------



## Oregonian

claybum said:


> Yeah, prices have exploded on these and it must be a few rave reviews. I am really curious about getting it restored and comparing it to my higher end restored units. At this point it is not quite on par. But as we all know, comparing restored units to unrestored is not fair....and I really do like the amp.
> 
> I have a guy in mind locally to do the work, I own a KA 8100 he restored and I believe he does good work.
> 
> If I ever let it go, you 2 (Skylab and Moody) have first dibs. Perhaps an arm wrestling match to determine the winner


 

 Who and where is your local tech?  I'm in Gresham and use Doug at Audio Specialties or the guy over at Fred's Sound of Music (was the only guy who could figure out my Spec 2 amp problem).  And where are YOU located?


----------



## claybum

Hey Guys,  my sansui G9000 db plays fine with 8 ohm B&W bookshelf speakers but goes into protection with my 6.3 ohm HPM 1500. 
 Would this simply be a bias and /or dc offset issue or might I be looking at something else?
 Any thoughts greatly appreciated.


----------



## claybum

oregonian said:


> Who and where is your local tech?  I'm in Gresham and use Doug at Audio Specialties or the guy over at Fred's Sound of Music (was the only guy who could figure out my Spec 2 amp problem).  And where are YOU located?


 
 I'm in Eugene and for general maintenance I go to Jim's Electronics in Eugene. The guy I need to email about a recap of my 9800 is someone I met thru ebay. He works at the U of O and is a hobbyist who has sold many recapped vintage pioneer, sansui and kenwood integrated on ebay. Not sure he will even have time to accommodate me.  I have never heard of Fred's Sound of Music. Glad they could fix your spec situation.


----------



## Oregonian

claybum said:


> I'm in Eugene and for general maintenance I go to Jim's Electronics in Eugene. The guy I need to email about a recap of my 9800 is someone I met thru ebay. He works at the U of O and is a hobbyist who has sold many recapped vintage pioneer, sansui and kenwood integrated on ebay. I have never heard of Fred's Sound of Music. *Glad they could fix your spec situation. *


 
  
 Me too.............I was beginning to think there was NO solution and would have to look for something else.  Not a good feeling, but now, almost a year later, it plays flawlessly.  
  
 My daughter is in school there - last year coming up.  I've seen a vintage seller in Eugene that always has a great selection on craigslist - wonder if it's the same guy?


----------



## claybum

oregonian said:


> Me too.............I was beginning to think there was NO solution and would have to look for something else.  Not a good feeling, but now, almost a year later, it plays flawlessly.
> 
> My daughter is in school there - last year coming up.  I've seen a vintage seller in Eugene that always has a great selection on craigslist - wonder if it's the same guy?


 
 Congrats on your daughter getting thru 3 years at U of O. Hope her last one goes well. The dude (can't remember his name at the moment) with all the cl postings has slowed down a bit with the selling. I purchased a turntable from him and a sx 1010. I loaned him my lcd 2 and later my he6. He was grateful for the loaners but thought I was crazy to spend that much on headphones. He is a vinyl collector and most of his house was consumed by audio stuff. Not sure how his wife put up with it. Lucky dude for sure. The U of O guy (terrible with names today) on the other hand was relegated to one small room for his audio hobby. His wife had a firm grip on the rest of the house.


----------



## Skylab

claybum said:


> Hey Guys,  my sansui G9000 db plays fine with 8 ohm B&W bookshelf speakers but goes into protection with my 6.3 ohm HPM 1500.
> Would this simply be a bias and /or dc offset issue or might I be looking at something else?
> Any thoughts greatly appreciated.




That's not enough impedance difference to have any practical consequence. Does it go into protection right away? Or after some period of time playing music? How loudly?

If it goes into protection right away, then I suspect the crossover in the HPM-1500 has a short, or somehow the speaker wires are being shorted. I assume you're not also trying to drive a second set of speakers?


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> That's not enough impedance difference to have any practical consequence. Does it go into protection right away? Or after some period of time playing music? How loudly?
> 
> If it goes into protection right away, then I suspect the crossover in the HPM-1500 has a short, or somehow the speaker wires are being shorted. I assume you're not also trying to drive a second set of speakers?


 
  
 Do the HPMs sound ok up until it goes into protection - or is there distortion in a channel (to Skylab's point a short)?  I agree that the 1.7 ohms difference should not be enough difference to cause this (unless there is some crazy impedance dip at some frequency).


----------



## moodyrn

I'm thinking a speaker issue also. I would take a peek on the inside, but first check the internal wiring. Then the drivers and crossovers.


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> Who and where is your local tech?  I'm in Gresham and use Doug at Audio Specialties or the guy over at Fred's Sound of Music (was the only guy who could figure out my Spec 2 amp problem).  And where are YOU located?


 
 Just a word of warning about FSoM. I tried to trade in a home theater receiver there a few years back with the intent to buy a Peachtree Nova that they carry and after "checking it out" for about a week, they told me my receiver wouldn't process High Definition signals. When I told them it wasn't capable of that from the factory (Harmon Kardon), they made up some other reason they wouldn't give me what they initially said they would. I asked if I could talk to the technician and was told, "He doesn't like it when people question his work". I was just looking for clarification. 
  
 I'm glad someone there could help you but I'll stick with Audio Specialties.


----------



## claybum

Thanks Guys....The HPMs play fine on my 1250 and Kenwoods but go into protection right away on the G9000. Only hooking up one pair of speakers at a time. I did have a powered sub hooked up to the G9000 a while back with some bookshelf speakers. 
  
 I did think that the HPMs somehow didn't agree with the Sansui so looking inside the HPMs seems like something I need to do.


----------



## Skylab

Sure seems like something is making the G9000 think the HPM-1500 are a dead short. You should be able to connect something as low as a 2 ohm speaker to it and if you didn't play any music, it wouldn't go into protect.


----------



## claybum

The plastic  tabs on the original speaker taps on the G9000 are a bit shot and i have to use a needle tool to lift the metal bar open to inset the speaker wire. Could the original speaker taps be the problem?


----------



## PhoenixG

claybum said:


> The plastic  tabs on the original speaker taps on the G9000 are a bit shot and i have to use a needle tool to lift the metal bar open to inset the speaker wire. Could the original speaker taps be the problem?


 
 I would just unplug the 1500 and put a meter to them across the inputs. What's their DC resistance? I'd bet you have an issue with them. If you don't see a solid short or very low ohm, then pull the 15'' woofer and have a look-see at the crossovers. Charring, leakage, or loose parts would be a dead giveaway of a short or issue.
 I think you've already ruled out the receiver being the problem by using different speakers. If you really want to be sure, try A/B-ing. Fixing conventional speakers is very simple and fairly cheap. Heck, pioneer still makes the woofers (worst case scenario). Recapping a speaker crossover is also very simple.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> Just a word of warning about FSoM. I tried to trade in a home theater receiver there a few years back with the intent to buy a Peachtree Nova that they carry and after "checking it out" for about a week, they told me my receiver wouldn't process High Definition signals. When I told them it wasn't capable of that from the factory (Harmon Kardon), they made up some other reason they wouldn't give me what they initially said they would. I asked if I could talk to the technician and was told, "He doesn't like it when people question his work". I was just looking for clarification.
> 
> I'm glad someone there could help you but I'll stick with Audio Specialties.




Funny, if you read the reviews on Yelp like I did before I went there, they are known as arrogant as heck. All the sales guys are known to be pills. The tech I'm talking about just came to work there from Echo Audio about a year and a half ago and the prior tech was known as a know it all from what I'd heard. I was at my last option when I went there and it saved the day. I'm with you tho, I'm a fan of Doug all the way.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> I would just unplug the 1500 and put a meter to them across the inputs. What's their DC resistance? I'd bet you have an issue with them. If you don't see a solid short or very low ohm, then pull the 15'' woofer and have a look-see at the crossovers. Charring, leakage, or loose parts would be a dead giveaway of a short or issue.
> I think you've already ruled out the receiver being the problem by using different speakers. If you really want to be sure, try A/B-ing. Fixing conventional speakers is very simple and fairly cheap. Heck, pioneer still makes the woofers (worst case scenario). Recapping a speaker crossover is also very simple.


 
  
 Keep in mind that because of the way a crossover works you may only get the DC resistance of the low pass filter and woofer (unless of course the caps are all shorted - doubtful).  The tweeter and other divers may have caps in series with the drivers thus blocking DC.  You may have to open the HPMs up and measure the DC resistance of each driver individually.


----------



## claybum

Thanks folks, great info. Probably all basic knowledge to you folks but very helpful to me. I'll get on is asap.
  
 Today my partner and I are switching out elements on a ceramic kiln and replacing an outlet we fried with said kiln.


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> Keep in mind that because of the way a crossover works you may only get the DC resistance of the low pass filter and woofer (unless of course the caps are all shorted - doubtful).  The tweeter and other divers may have caps in series with the drivers thus blocking DC.  You may have to open the HPMs up and measure the DC resistance of each driver individually.


 
 Yep. You can often be fooled with just measuring at the terminals with so many other things going on with the crossover. I've learned that the hard way many years back. It's the same as testing caps, and transistors in circuit. After verifying the internal wiring is ok, the next step would be to verify all of the drivers individually. Hopefully it will end there. Yes you would have to replace said driver, but they are plentiful on ebay and it's a very easy fix. If the problem exist on the crossover side, unless you are really good with a iron and have a decent understanding of circuit design, then things become much more complicated. But you need to go through the process of elimination first.


----------



## claybum

Well, a local acquaintance has agreed to recap both my SA 9800 and HPM 1500 speakers. Charging me for parts only. I'll have to come up with a way to compensate him for his time. He is very psyched to do the 9800.


----------



## PhoenixG

claybum said:


> Well, a local acquaintance has agreed to recap both my SA 9800 and HPM 1500 speakers. Charging me for parts only. I'll have to come up with a way to compensate him for his time. He is very psyched to do the 9800.


 
 Wow, what luck! Hope he open his doors to the masses!


----------



## moodyrn

Wow!! I'm really glad for you. That's one heck of a deal. That's really, really nice of him to that.


----------



## buson160man

This is another casual update on my educational journey of discovering the differences between dedicated headphone amps and these old vintage monster receivers from the horsepower wars back in the late seventies. I know that was a mouth full of opening statements . But here is my observation I went today to a live classical concert at the local park symphony . The national youth symphony was playing . I had a wonderful time and heard some wonderful music played by this very talented and budding group of future musicians .
    When I got home of course I wanted to play some music of the composers they played at the concert .I decided that I would try to play my ray samuels raptor otl amp . I had not listened to it for awhile because of course I have been playing my recapped vintage monster receiver trying to break it in. Well I put in a cd of Gershwin music and played it for awhile . Well I just felt like something was amiss . I was missing the sense of scale and majesty I was  getting from my vintage monster receiver .  That scale was something that I  heard at the live concert that I saw tonight . So I  hooked up my vintage monster and powered it up . Now that scale and majesty was back much more lifelike more like the live concert that I heard tonight . The more I listen to my vintage monster the more I am becoming quite smitten with its abilities with headphones .
    I think I have forever been swayed by the way these monster vintage receivers work when using headphones .
  I also hear a realistic portrayal of the sound of musical instruments they just sound more natural and stand out more than with at least the dedicated headphone amps that I have been using. I am thinking some of this could be just horsepower . I am sure the monster receiver has considerably more power than the measly output of my headphone amps . I guess horsepower does account for something . But the horsepower is of the same sense of quality that I was getting from my headphone amps . It is not just horsepower for the sense of horsepower . There is a sense of refinement as well .
   I am going to explore the premium fuse avenue when I recover from my credit card woes . Boy it just so easy to whip them out and charge things . I used it to purchase my monster receiver . But I  am glad I did because I am loving every minute of my journey of discovery about vintage monster receivers.


----------



## Silent One

The time has come for me to ship my _vintage lovely_ back East. The 1978 Sansui G-22000 is going to friend and fellow member wotts. I'm researching best shipping methods at the best price. And then wondered...how did the Japanese Electronics firm originally ship these monster receivers? Double-walled styro cartons inside? Any of you remember?


----------



## monoethylene




----------



## moodyrn

Oooh, I know what that is. Use to be on my short list. But I eventually gave up because they are to hard to find. I am extremely jealous lol. My my, what a score. If you paid short of an arm and leg, then you really scored big.


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> The time has come for me to ship my _vintage lovely_ back East. The 1978 Sansui G-22000 is going to friend and fellow member wotts. I'm researching best shipping methods at the best price. And then wondered...how did the Japanese Electronics firm originally ship these monster receivers? Double-walled styro cartons inside? Any of you remember?




I know she will be missed. But I'm glad you were able to keep it the family. And at least it's going to a good home. Congrats to wotts for joining the exclusive membership of the super monster class.


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> The time has come for me to ship my _vintage lovely_ back East. The 1978 Sansui G-22000 is going to friend and fellow member wotts. I'm researching best shipping methods at the best price. And then wondered...how did the Japanese Electronics firm originally ship these monster receivers? Double-walled styro cartons inside? Any of you remember?




That's awesome, I know Tim will enjoy it!!!

I have the original packaging for the SX-1980. It's form-fit styrofoam inside one double walled box that is then inside a second double walled box! When I sent mine to Matt for recapping, I actually put that whole thing inside a third box, with some peanuts around that. The outer box was in bad shape when it arrived, but the 1980 and it's original packaging were just fine.


----------



## wotts

moodyrn said:


> I know she will be missed. But I'm glad you were able to keep it the family. And at least it's going to a good home. Congrats to wotts for joining the exclusive membership of the super monster class.


 
  
 I am really stoked to have it coming. I have to build a new rack to accommodate it though - the one I had barely fits the SX-1980 or the 1250. I guess that isn't a bad problem to have!


----------



## PhoenixG

wotts said:


> I am really stoked to have it coming. I have to build a new rack to accommodate it though - the one I had barely fits the SX-1980 or the 1250. I guess that isn't a bad problem to have!


 
 Haha, so many first world problems. I have three top rate receivers but only two top rate sets of speakers. Oh well, looks like another excuse for a shopping trip.


----------



## wotts

I think I will have to swap some speakers around. Perhaps add a pair. I have the Mac XR1051 on the 1980 right now, with HPM-100s and S-1010s on "standby". I'd like to give some Cornwalls a try.


----------



## Silent One

monoethylene said:


>


 
 Your Sansui looks sooo very sexy!
  


moodyrn said:


> I know she will be missed. But I'm glad you were able to keep it the family. And at least it's going to a good home. Congrats to wotts for joining the exclusive membership of the super monster class.


 
 Precisely because it's staying in the family, I still have joy and appreciation, no sadness. Honestly, this thread is so rich in the way of history and gear, I'm surprised Head-Fi hasn't spun us off already!  
  
  


skylab said:


> That's awesome, I know Tim will enjoy it!!!
> 
> I have the original packaging for the SX-1980. It's form-fit styrofoam inside one double walled box that is then inside a second double walled box! When I sent mine to Matt for recapping, I actually put that whole thing inside a third box, with some peanuts around that. The outer box was in bad shape when it arrived, but the 1980 and it's original packaging were just fine.


 
 Rigid form-fitted styro is surprisingly strong. I had a hunch they did this. My aim now is to box it up so good it'll get flagged by U.S. Customs...despite staying inside the country! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


> Originally Posted by *PhoenixG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Haha, so many first world problems. I have three top rate receivers but only two top rate sets of speakers. Oh well, looks like another excuse for a shopping trip.


 
 I'd love to have some of his problems inside the listening room.


----------



## Pepper

[deleted]


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


> I think I will have to swap some speakers around. Perhaps add a pair. I have the Mac XR1051 on the 1980 right now, with HPM-100s and S-1010s on "standby". I'd like to give some Cornwalls a try.


 
 Yes Cornwalls!! Those are my favorite speakers of all the Klipsch heritage line. IMO they have the most balanced sound among al the line.
  
 If I had the space I would follow Rob's example and put together a vintage system (third system in the house) based on the Cornwalls.


----------



## .Sup

pepper said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I borrowed a JVC R-S5 vintage stereo receiver (circa 1980-81), and I plugged my HD800s into them. And they sound a million times better than out of my Objective2 amplifier. I cannot stop listening to them. The point is that I'm hooked on vintage amps now.
> 
> ...



Get the 3120. It doesn't have the tone controls. The bad thing is it doesn't have low level option which is nice to have since HD800 are quite sensitive and with it you can balance channels without going too loud.


----------



## jgreen16

To echo Skylab's comments regarding original packaging of "monster" equipment, I purchased a Pioneer SPEC-2 power amp new from the base exchange while serving in the USAF in Germany in 1979, and it was packaged similar to how he described the SX-1980. Form-fitting Styrofoam inside a double-walled box, which was then in turn inside another double-walled box. IIRC, the inside box was the standard brown box, and the outer box was white with the Pioneer logo in blue, and other lettering in black.
  
 I can say that my equipment, which also included a Pioneer SPEC-1 preamp, Pioneer CT-F1000 cassette deck, Technics SL-1600 Mk2 turntable, and JBL L110 speakers were all shipped numerous times over the years in their original packaging with absolutely no damage. Granted, most of those shipments were along with my household goods, and not by UPS, USPS, or FedEx, who don't exercise the most care when transporting any items, let alone somewhat delicate high-end audio equipment.


----------



## Pepper

Just a picture of my HD800s on a random JVC R-S5 stereo receiver. My HD800s came alive. (You can also see my JDS Labs Objective2 there. My source is currently a Schiit Modi... somebody suggest an inexpensive Saber 9018 DAC!)

 On another note, does anyone know the difference between the NAD 3020 and the NAD 3020e? I've heard there are different variants of the 3020, but not much info on the 3020e in specific. I've even heard some negative things abuot the 3020e compared to the other variants, like the B or or the i. (And yes, I do wish I could get my hands on a 3120!)


----------



## SpeakerBox

pepper said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I borrowed a JVC R-S5 vintage stereo receiver (circa 1980-81), and I plugged my HD800s into them. And they sound a million times better than out of my Objective2 amplifier. I cannot stop listening to them. The point is that I'm hooked on vintage amps now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I may be a lone voice on this, but it is hard to beat the sound of the old Sherwood S-**** receivers from the 70's for the price.  So far I have listened extensively to S-7110B, S-7100A, S-7200, S-7300, and S-8900A (my favorite so far and in use as my dedicated HP amp).  The 7100A is only 17WPC so efficient phones are a must - awesome sound just the same.  You may want to give them a look - highly underrated IMHO.


----------



## TubeHiFiNut

speakerbox said:


> I think I may be a lone voice on this, but it is hard to beat the sound of the old Sherwood S-**** receivers from the 70's for the price.  So far I have listened extensively to S-7110B, S-7100A, S-7200, S-7300, and S-8900A (my favorite so far and in use as my dedicated HP amp).  The 7100A is only 17WPC so efficient phones are a must - awesome sound just the same.  You may want to give them a look - highly underrated IMHO.


 
 You are not alone. I always liked the old Sherwood receivers, too.
  
 One of the vintage receivers in my small collection is the Sherwood SEL 200. GREAT tuner, very smooth sound. I'll have to try it as a headphone amp.....


----------



## BobG55

Well I've had my Fisher 500C for more than a week now & the sound quality continues to amaze me.  It's magnificent/mesmerizing.  I've been listening to albums I've listened to for years & I'm hearing things I've never heard or noticed before.  It's a revelation.  For example I listened to the album Yellow Brick Road today & taking the song "The ballad of Danny Bailey (1909-1934), one of my favourite on the album & all of the following I do not remember hearing or hearing so clearly : mounting _woosh_ sounds at the end of background vocals, rhythm guitar licks, occasional acoustic guitar & the distinct ping sound of the cymbals. By the way I'm using HD600 HPs and I can hear every detail, clearly without any distortion or early roll off.  The HD800 are not compatible with the 500C for some reason which will probably create some controversy to some who read this but to my ears the HD600 & HD650 sound much better with this amp than their more expensive sibling.  But I digress … the point is this amp is just awesome.  Really glad to have discovered this thread.  Hope you are all enjoying your vintage rig.  One more thing : the other aspect that I love about vintage amplifiers is the same as older cars : they look beautiful.  They have personality and you don't have to check the monicker or the brand name you know right away just by looking "oh yeah, that beauty's a Pioneer, a Marantz, a Kenwood, Hell … a Fisher 500C; same with old cars "that's a '56 Chev, a 68 Mustang Fastback, a '69 Buick, etc."  Personality, beautifully crafted & with a unique sound.  Hey y'all, it's all good !


----------



## moodyrn

Well a few things about the 500c and hd800 pairing. One is the hd800 amping requirements are really picky. You need something transparent, with a great airy sound stage(which the 500c has), but at the same time smooth, organic(to help mask the harshness in the lower treble), and on the warmer side of neutral. So the neutrality of the 500c doesn't match well with the slightly bright hd800. The transparency of both the fisher and hd800 is out of this world and together is just too revealing. That pairing is going to reveal every single flaw. Sometimes I feel sennheiser went a little overboard with just how revealing they are, but that's also one thing many of their fans love.

I you want a vintage tube to go well with the hd800 I would highly recommend any of the x100 series fisher. Or better yet, a 400 fisher receiver, which has a lot of what the 500c has. But it also gives you that nice warm euphoric tone as well.
One last thing to add, the hd800 do require just a bit more juice than what the 500c can deliver through its headphone jack. There's a member here who has an x100b and had it modded so that the speaker taps ran directly through the headphone out(whoever did it probably just removed the resistor since the headphone out is already from the speaker taps to begin with) just so he could plug his hd800 into the headphone out. I can't remember his name off the top of my head though.


----------



## derbigpr

What do you guys think about the Onkyo A-8820 integrated amp? It's not really vintage I guess (it's only 10 years old), but I can get one in perfect shape for like 80 dollars for my T1's. I guess it's worth a try, if nothing else, it looks good, and it's designed in Germany (european model I think), made in Japan, can't be that bad.


----------



## BobG55

moodyrn said:


> Well a few things about the 500c and hd800 pairing. One is the hd800 amping requirements are really picky. You need something transparent, with a great airy sound stage(which the 500c has), but at the same time smooth, organic(to help mask the harshness in the lower treble), and on the warmer side of neutral. So the neutrality of the 500c doesn't match well with the slightly bright hd800. The transparency of both the fisher and hd800 is out of this world and together is just too revealing. That pairing is going to reveal every single flaw. Sometimes I feel sennheiser went a little overboard with just how revealing they are, but that's also one thing many of their fans love.
> 
> I you want a vintage tube to go well with the hd800 I would highly recommend any of the x100 series fisher. Or better yet, a 400 fisher receiver, which has a lot of what the 500c has. But it also gives you that nice warm euphoric tone as well.
> One last thing to add, the hd800 do require just a bit more juice than what the 500c can deliver through its headphone jack. There's a member here who has an x100b and had it modded so that the speaker taps ran directly through the headphone out(whoever did it probably just removed the resistor since the headphone out is already from the speaker taps to begin with) just so he could plug his hd800 into the headphone out. I can't remember his name off the top of my head though.


 
 Thanks moodyrn.  All excellent suggestions, but I decided to sell the HD800.  It was my second pair and to tell you the truth (I'm always somewhat leery of writing this on Head-fi ) I'm not a big fan of the HD800 properly amped or not.  Different strokes …  I'm quite happy with the HD6xx siblings.  When I add up the total cost of the Fisher & the HD6xx & the sound quality I get from that combination I believe that what I would have to spend extra to get the best out of the HD800 is not worth it in the end IMHO.  My listening preference is based on hearing detail highs & lows & I'm getting that with what I have now. I've reached a point where I've  bought & sold enough headphones & amps, of different kinds that I know exactly what I've been looking for & have finally found it. Hopefully it will be for quite a while. If I do spend in the future it would probably be for a Marantz 2238b.  From what I've read/heard about that receiver, it offers the detail I like with a bit more warmth & I'm curious to find out if the "mono" option on the amp works well with "mono" recordings, i.e. The Beatles' mono CD collection. Maybe someone who knows and reads this can share their experience as to wether or not the "mono" option on the Marantz makes a difference in sound quality for mono recordings.  Again, love this thread & I wish to all the members on this thread to find their vintage receiver Nirvana.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll try to get pictures taken and posted soon, but I've received my SX-737 which appears to be in nearly pristine condition.  There are a few nicks and wears here and there, but we're talking measured in millimeters on the nicks, and the only wear I've seen so far besides one scrape on the bottom of the unit is some of the silver in the left corner of the frame around the FM display is worn to black.
  
 Given this is my first real experience with a vintage stereo, I do have a couple questions I'd appreciate advice on.  Should I at all worry about the low and high filter switches, and as far as I can tell the loudness switch will most likely alter how balanced of a sound I get, so for anything detail oriented should that switch just be left off?  I have a feeling for bass oriented music I'll switch it on to give my HE400s that extra oomph, but anything like classical I expect avoiding it is a good idea.
  
 OH  YEAH, I should totally hook up my SR-44 and see how it sounds!  I remember it has a slight channel balance issue, but that should be easily remedied.


----------



## Oregonian

For $80 it may be worth a try.  Probably has an Opamp instead of "direct off the amp headphone out".   Not optimal but probably still sounds good for a T1.


----------



## TubeHiFiNut

derbigpr said:


> What do you guys think about the Onkyo A-8820 integrated amp? It's not really vintage I guess (it's only 10 years old), but I can get one in perfect shape for like 80 dollars for my T1's. I guess it's worth a try, if nothing else, it looks good, and it's designed in Germany (european model I think), made in Japan, can't be that bad.


 
 Can't beat it for $80.....
  
 Have fun with your new toy.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'll take more soon.


----------



## derbigpr

oregonian said:


> For $80 it may be worth a try.  Probably has an Opamp instead of "direct off the amp headphone out".   Not optimal but probably still sounds good for a T1.







Nope, no opamp, its fed like its supposed to be.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> I'll take more soon.


 
 Ooooooooohhhh, she is a beaut !  I'm jealous.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'd say for $280 shipped with some internal upgrades, I'm pretty sure I got quite a good deal.


----------



## Skylab

saoshyant said:


> I'd say for $280 shipped with some internal upgrades, I'm pretty sure I got quite a good deal.




She sure looks the part, that's for sure. What a beauty! Congrats.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> I'd say for $280 shipped with some internal upgrades, *I'm pretty sure I got quite a good deal*.


 
 Saoshyant : Where I come from, we call that an understatement !


----------



## BobG55

Any Canadian living in Vancouver, BC on this thread, this is for sale on Canuck Audio Mart :
  
 http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649135138-fisher-500c-vacuum-tube-stereophonic-fm-multiplex-receiver/


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, I haven't gotten to listen to the SX-737 much yet, but it is a fantastic companion to my HD700.  For rock and such, the loudness switch turns on fun mode quite well, and while I haven't given a classical a try yet, I have absolutely no worries about it's capabilities.  Part of it could be the dac I just got in as well, but as a combination, I am loving it.  I do not have any feeling of I wish there was more bass with alt rock, and there is certainly bass to spare if I start turning that shiny silver knob.  I was worried I'd listen to it and have buyers remorse, but all doubts are gone, which for such an immediate response, I'm happy I don't have to take some time to see if it grows on me.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> Well, I haven't gotten to listen to the SX-737 much yet, but it is a fantastic companion to my HD700.  For rock and such, the loudness switch turns on fun mode quite well, and while I haven't given a classical a try yet, I have absolutely no worries about it's capabilities.  Part of it could be the dac I just got in as well, but as a combination, I am loving it.  I do not have any feeling of I wish there was more bass with alt rock, and there is certainly bass to spare if I start turning that shiny silver knob.  *I was worried I'd listen to it and have buyers remorse, but all doubts are gone*, which for such an immediate response, I'm happy I don't have to take some time to see if it grows on me.


 
 Good for you Saoshyant.  There's not much worse than "buyer's remorse" when you spend your hard earned cash.  The best part is as you stated, you won't have to time to see if it grows on you.  The chances are usually good of that happening with Vintage Amps; it's been my experience so far anyways.  Congrats again.


----------



## TubeHiFiNut

Your new 737 is gorgeous!

Y'all are inspiring me to dig out some of my integrated amps and receivers and take them for a drive with my headphones......

I feel the itch growing.....

Must get more headphones. 

Maybe a vintage pair of Koss Pro 4AA.....?


----------



## captouch

saoshyant said:


> Well, I haven't gotten to listen to the SX-737 much yet, but it is a fantastic companion to my HD700.  For rock and such, the loudness switch turns on fun mode quite well, and while I haven't given a classical a try yet, I have absolutely no worries about it's capabilities.  Part of it could be the dac I just got in as well, but as a combination, I am loving it.  I do not have any feeling of I wish there was more bass with alt rock, and there is certainly bass to spare if I start turning that shiny silver knob.  I was worried I'd listen to it and have buyers remorse, but all doubts are gone, which for such an immediate response, I'm happy I don't have to take some time to see if it grows on me.




Congrats! Now let's see if you can stop at just one. Vintage gear are kind of like Doritos. . .


----------



## Pepper

Hey, I am wondering if you guys could help me with out with a couple of short questions:
  
 1. I've read that replacing all electrolytic capacitors is absolutely essential on any vintage amp. What are the effects of doing so to the sound? And, what are the risks of not replacing them?
  
 2. Do I have to replace the power supply of my vintage amp simply as a matter of age?
  
 3. If anyone here is familiar with vintage NAD amplifiers, are you only supposed to bring the volume knob to 12 o'clock? After which it begins to distort? Or, is that actually a problem with the age of the amp rather than the inherent design?
  
 Thank you guys so much! I don't even want to listen to my vintage amp because I feel like it will explode if I don't get some repairs done .


----------



## SpeakerBox

pepper said:


> Hey, I am wondering if you guys could help me with out with a couple of short questions:
> 
> 1. I've read that replacing all electrolytic capacitors is absolutely essential on any vintage amp. What are the effects of doing so to the sound? And, what are the risks of not replacing them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good luck!


----------



## TubeHiFiNut

pepper said:


> Hey, I am wondering if you guys could help me with out with a couple of short questions:
> 
> 1. I've read that replacing all electrolytic capacitors is absolutely essential on any vintage amp. What are the effects of doing so to the sound? And, what are the risks of not replacing them?
> 
> ...


 
 If the vintage equipment has been sitting unused for a long time, it is very important that you use a variac to bring the voltage up slowly and reform the caps. Saves a potential big mess.....
  
 As long as the caps are good, you may not have to replace them immediately (I know that many will disagree with this). If you do choose to replace them now, you probably will never have to again.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## LugBug1

pepper said:


> Hey, I am wondering if you guys could help me with out with a couple of short questions:
> 
> 1. I've read that replacing all electrolytic capacitors is absolutely essential on any vintage amp. What are the effects of doing so to the sound? And, what are the risks of not replacing them?
> 
> ...


 
 Just replied to your pm bud.
  
 But I'll just reiterate it here for others. NAD's are renowned for their very low distortion levels and thats one of the reasons they work well with the sensitive HD800. No other vintage amp I've tried has had such a black backround. 
  
 Most (if not all) vintage integrated amps are NOT fundamentally designed for hp use. A simple resistor is in place from the main power supply to the hp out. So turning the volume nob up past 12 oclock will no doubt be putting extreme pressure on the small drivers. The HD800 have very tough dynamic drivers but are not meant to be fed that much juice. The distortion may very well be clipping. I can't get my 3020 passed 10 oclock without it being far too loud. 
  
 Or... because you have an original NAD 3020 (1979) it may very well be the caps. If you are worried then yes send it in for an MOT, because they are great amplifiers and worth it imo


----------



## LugBug1

saoshyant said:


> Well, I haven't gotten to listen to the SX-737 much yet, but it is a fantastic companion to my HD700.  For rock and such, the loudness switch turns on fun mode quite well, and while I haven't given a classical a try yet, I have absolutely no worries about it's capabilities.  Part of it could be the dac I just got in as well, but as a combination, I am loving it.  I do not have any feeling of I wish there was more bass with alt rock, and there is certainly bass to spare if I start turning that shiny silver knob.  I was worried I'd listen to it and have buyers remorse, but all doubts are gone, which for such an immediate response, I'm happy I don't have to take some time to see if it grows on me.


 
 Excellent. Pleased you're enjoying it. She's a beauty too!


----------



## Pepper

lugbug1 said:


> Just replied to your pm bud.
> 
> But I'll just reiterate it here for others. NAD's are renowned for their very low distortion levels and thats one of the reasons they work well with the sensitive HD800. No other vintage amp I've tried has had such a black backround.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the help. I think there might be a problem with some of the electricals, then. Maybe you could tell me which ones you think? 
  
 By 12 o'clock (which is what I keep it at constantly when listening to good recordings), it is mostly loud enough for pretty decent levels of listening, but it's not extremely loud or anything (it's like a medium-high or lower-high volume level). Depending on the recording, 12 o'clock is sometimes fairly quiet, too... Only highly compressed modern music is very loud at 12, but even most modern music isn't close to blaring at 12. 
  
 On my JVC vintage amp, I get it to 8 o'clock so and then start dying from it being excessively loud. That, I understand, would be because of the extreme levels of power that come from a speaker amp. Consequently, I think my NAD 3020 is not pumping out as much power as it should be (at least to the headphone out). Also, I heard this NAD 3020 on a pair of speakers and it was certainly loud enough, and I am pretty sure it was less than 12.
  
 I think I would need a restoration on this ... Any suggestions on which parts should I check? The "power supply"? Perhaps it's just the headphone out that is not receiving enough power?
  
 Any thoughts would be great. My JVC sounds better, right now, just because I can get it to a higher volume... It seems like on my NAD, I would need to get to 1 o'clock to get the volume level I want, except once you pass 12 o'clock, it immediately begins to distort.


----------



## roadcykler

pepper said:


> Hey, I am wondering if you guys could help me with out with a couple of short questions:
> 
> 1. I've read that replacing all electrolytic capacitors is absolutely essential on any vintage amp. What are the effects of doing so to the sound? And, what are the risks of not replacing them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 If everything works as it's supposed to, there's nothing "essential" that you should do. There are subjective gains to be made by replacing certain items but you have to weigh the cost for that with the cost of the item. It wouldn't make much sense to replace too many things in a lower line receiver unless you planned to keep it a long time and not expect to get out of it anywhere close to what you had in it when it came time to sell.


----------



## SpeakerBox

pepper said:


> Also, I heard this NAD 3020 on a pair of speakers and it was certainly loud enough, and I am pretty sure it was less than 12.


 
  
 If the speakers seem to sound OK and are loud enough for you - I am wondering if your phones are too inefficient for the NAD HP out.


----------



## derbigpr

Well, I picked up my new old Onkyo A-8820, maybe not really vintage being only about 10 years old, but still, I think it's a nice find, and I think that for 60 euros, it might be the best value for money audio item I ever bought in my life.
 Amp is not in perfect condition visually, there are a couple of scratches on the volume knob and front panel, but nothing major and I don't really care.
  
 The entire front panel is brushed aluminium, two biggest knobs are aluminium as well, the rest are plastic, but look and kinda feel metallic. All knobs have a solid feel to them, not fiddly at all, especially the input selector which has wonderful solidity to it, and a very mechanical "click" when you turn it. Excellent.
  
 The rest of the amp is typical black metal and it's in absolutely perfect condition with no scratches, same goes for the rear. Also worth mentioning, the amp is made in Japan, which is nice to see on a Japanese product.
  
 What I like about the amp is it's appearance. I don't know if it shows on pictures, but it's not exactly silver, it's a slightly champagne color, it actually matches the T1's color scheme perfectly. The rings around the knobs on the amp are almost exact same as the ring around the grill on the T1.
  
 Functionally, the amp is in perfect working order except for one minor thing. Sometimes, when I power it up, the relay that switches on the "A" speaker output doesn't work properly, so only the right speaker works. It's not a big deal since all I have to do is turn the knob to off and then back to A a couple of times, and then it works. Happened a few times, it's fine as long as it works, I hope the left channel wont cut out permanently. But ok, there's still the "B" set of speaker outputs, so I'm safe.
  
  

  

  
 As far as the sound goes, I haven't listened to it too much yet, so I'll keep away from any final conclusions. However, what I can say now is that all the basics are good. The headphone output is completely silent up to about 90% on the knob, with both T1's and any of the 32 ohm headphones I've tried, this is actually better than my M1HPAP, which does hiss quite obviously at above 70%. It has plenty of power, it gets too loud up at around 10 o'clock on the knob with T1's, and need's just a tad more turning for lower impedance headphones. It's perfectly balanced in terms of channel volumes, so no annoying channel imbalances like on most headphone amps, not even on lowest volume settings.
 In terms of sound quality, it seems pretty good. I don't really hear a huge difference between it and the Musical Fidelity M1HPAP, which cost me 11 times more.  A-8820 seems pretty warm in it's signature, it has what I'd consider a  slightly mellow sound (think of HD650's), with a slightly softer and less powerful bass than the M1.  So with T1's it does seem a tiny bit bass light, but with something like Sennheiser HD380Pro's, it's perfect. Thankfully, it has bass and treble knobs, which do a really nice job of adjusting the tone, without distorting or making the sound messy.  I like T1's with the bass setting on 3 and treble on about 1,5. It gives it about the same amount of punch as the M1.  Other than that, bass and treble extend very well, the overall sound resolution, clarity, soundstage, separation, detail, etc. is very close to that  of M1.  Simply put, nothing is missing from the T1's sound when using them with the Onkyo, nothing that suggests that they might be underpowered, or plugged into a bad amp.  Sound does seem a bit more effortless and airy on the M1, which is to expect. It just "flows" out of the headphones more easily and seems a bit more expansive in terms of soundstage, and details pop out a bit more obviously, but again, for 60 €, this Onkyo pretty much wipes the floor with anything I've ever heard anywhere near it's price. Considering that for  the  same money I could buy a pair of used bookshelf speakers, and for half as much a decent used CD player, it's amazing how for 150 dollars nowadays you can build yourself a very nice sounding system.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice!  Onkyo has made some excellent stuff over the years.  Had a T-4055 Tuner for a while that I loved and never should have sold.  My guess is that since one side of your relay always seems to work the issue is minor and you just need a new relay.  They do wear out over time.  Enjoy!


----------



## derbigpr

speakerbox said:


> Very nice!  Onkyo has made some excellent stuff over the years.  Had a T-4055 Tuner for a while that I loved and never should have sold.  My guess is that since one side of your relay always seems to work the issue is minor and you just need a new relay.  They do wear out over time.  Enjoy!


 
  
  
 The guy I got  it from said the reason for relay issues are the fact that amp was unused for almost 4 years, and should go away after some use. I don't know how much truth there is in that, but as you said, worst case scenario is I'll need to replace it, which is no big deal.


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, been listening to a broadcast of Lollapalooza using the SX737 starting last night.  Without even touching the bass knob, just flipping the loudness switch, it managed to get the HE-400 to sound absolutely thunderous.  Of course broadcasting like that is going to have some seriously bass heavy balancing going on for the crowds, but I've never heard the 400 rumble like that.  It almost made me feel like I was there when I closed my eyes.  Its great to know that I can really count on this receiver to be up to the task.  Earlier today I decided to see how it sounded outputting to my SR-40, an ancient headphone I know, but I found this one in rather fantastic condition, still had the box too.  I have to push the volume up a little higher than the HD700 or 400 needs, but I noticed it's actually quite more forgiving than either of those headphones, especially seeing that the broadcast of the Kinks hasn't been the easiest to understand.  It's my first time really enjoying this headphone, it didn't ever sound right on my HK3480.


----------



## BobG55

saoshyant said:


> Well, been listening to a broadcast of Lollapalooza using the SX737 starting last night.  Without even touching the bass knob, just flipping the loudness switch, it managed to get the HE-400 to sound absolutely thunderous.  Of course broadcasting like that is going to have some seriously bass heavy balancing going on for the crowds, but I've never heard the 400 rumble like that.  It almost made me feel like I was there when I closed my eyes.  Its great to know that I can really count on this receiver to be up to the task.  Earlier today I decided to see how it sounded outputting to my SR-40, an ancient headphone I know, but I found this one in rather fantastic condition, still had the box too.  I have to push the volume up a little higher than the HD700 or 400 needs, but I noticed it's actually quite more forgiving than either of those headphones, especially seeing that the broadcast of the Kinks hasn't been the easiest to understand.  *It's my first time really enjoying this headphone, it didn't ever sound right on my HK3480.*


 
 +1, another victory for vintage amps.  Happy for you.


----------



## BobG55

Ok fellow Vintage Receivers Head-fiers, I need your help.  There's a gorgeous* Marantz 2285B* for sale & the amp is in pristine working & aesthetic shape.  It has been cleaned, capped & all the bulbs are working. 
  
*I'm wondering if any of you know anything about the general sound of this specific model.*
  
 1-) Is it transient, detailed and is the soundstage good ?  
  
  2-) Also, my HP collection consists of the HD6xxs, SRH990 & K702.  Would these have good symmetry w/this Marantz amp ?
  
  3-) One more question *(*I've researched this on the internet but have not found any answer*) *: every Marantz receiver has a *"mono" push button* next to the *"filter" push button*; is this *mono button for the AM radio* *only *or *does it function &/or improve the sound if one listens to mono CDs for example ?  *I hope I wrote this in a clear manner.
  
 I need help & experience from those of you who may have experience with this specific model.  
  
 I just don't want to spend the kind of money it would cost to buy this amp & then regret it.
  
*I thank you all in advance.*


----------



## Skylab

What are they asking for it?

I had a 2285 non.-B version for quite a while and really liked it. Noticeably warm sounding but still plenty detailed and eminently musical. I've read that the B version isn't as warm sounding but is nonetheless excellent.


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> What are they asking for it?
> 
> I had a 2285 non.-B version for quite a while and really liked it. Noticeably warm sounding but still plenty detailed and eminently musical. I've read that the B version isn't as warm sounding but is nonetheless excellent.


 
 Hi Skylab, they're asking $1,000 CDN & $50 for s&h.  Many reasons why I'm tempted : some are cheaper from the U.S. but not by much; I lose on currency exchange, for the amp, s&h + Customs fee & 15% taxes applied by CDN customs for province I live in = 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  The amp has been cleaned & customized and is in perfect working condition.


----------



## Skylab

Well that certainly doesn't sound bad. It's not a screaming bargain, but if the seller is reputable, it's not unreasonable. Hopefully someone else here who has one can comment on its sound.


----------



## LugBug1

I've never heard one, but I certainly wouldn't chuck it out of bed... If that helps  
  
  
 Heres a lovely pic just so the folks out there know which one it is.


----------



## BobG55

It's absolutely beautiful no doubt about that.  When I think about forking out that kind of cash though I feel the pinch of my wallet.  I've had time to think about this since yesterday & I've come to the conclusion that if it were $200 cheaper I'd jump at the chance but 1K is a bit steep for me at the moment.  It is beautiful though ….


----------



## LugBug1

bobg55 said:


> It's absolutely beautiful no doubt about that.  When I think about forking out that kind of cash though I feel the pinch of my wallet.  I've had time to think about this since yesterday & I've come to the conclusion that if it were $200 cheaper I'd jump at the chance but 1K is a bit steep for me at the moment.  It is beautiful though ….


 
 Well I have to admire your restraint and sensibility! 
  
 The Marantz are beautiful machines and are always sought after, but with this comes a high price. I personally think you can get much better SQ from other makes such as Pioneer and Sansui for far less money. This is based on my experience with lower to mid end models and of course my personal preference. Most peeps buy a Marantz first and are blown away with the sound - because vintage amps sound bloody good! But its not until they buy other models that the Marantz start collecting dust.  
  
 Having said that, everyone should own a Marantz. I would keep your eye out for more of a bargain just incase you aren't blown away with the sound. After all, you already own one of the best vintage amps out there.


----------



## BobG55

lugbug1 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > It's absolutely beautiful no doubt about that.  When I think about forking out that kind of cash though I feel the pinch of my wallet.  I've had time to think about this since yesterday & I've come to the conclusion that if it were $200 cheaper I'd jump at the chance but 1K is a bit steep for me at the moment.  It is beautiful though ….
> ...


 
 Thanks for the suggestion LugBug.  I'm thinking about scaling down to ie. 2238b as opposed to the 2285.  There is one available for a modest price but I have to bid on it & I'm going to wait & see how that goes (still a couple of days left on the bidding).  As you stated I already have a very good vintage amp.  Sometimes I really get frustrated at having discovered Head-fi & think of what I've become since (I'M NOT OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE, OK !!!!!!!). It's probably my imagination but I swear my wallet has started hiding from me


----------



## BobG55

The photograph is from Google Images / I was not able to transfer the image of my purchase from ebay.
  
 Just bought this baby, Marantz 2238B, fully serviced, 30 Day Warranty,from Investments Audio, Portland OR, (ebay.ca) w/ delivery & customs it totals : $640 CDN.  I wanted one & I got it.  It's not the 2270B but it will do.  I read the reviews & watched a few reviews on youtube & I know in order to get anything close, by today's standards, to what this amp will sound like, I'd have to spend at least $2000.00+  
  
 The caption at top of page : *Marantz 2238B- Professionally Serviced- LED Re-lamp- 30 Day Warranty- Clean! *I will post my impressions when I receive it & listen to it also.  This is my last purchase. (Nobody laugh … *I can hear you snickering LugBug* … I mean it, I'm dead serious … if not I'll just be dead = the missus 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 I can't download the photograph from ebay, the system keeps rejecting it.  But it is in pristine condition.  I'll keep trying to get the pictures.


----------



## .Sup

Gratz Groucho! I really like Marantz wooden housings, nice thickness and finish.


----------



## BobG55

.sup said:


> Gratz Groucho! I really like Marantz wooden housings, nice thickness and finish.


 
 Thanks .Sup


----------



## SpeakerBox

For what it is worth, I have had a 2215, 2220B, two or three 2230s, and now a 2270 and have not been much impressed by any of them.  IMHO, just not a very clean sound.  Of all the aforementioned the 2215 sounded the best to me.  I will be selling the 2270 sometime soon and holding on to my similarly powered Sherwood S-8900A (60WPC) if that tells you anything.


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> For what it is worth, I have had a 2215, 2220B, two or three 2230s, and now a 2270 and have not been much impressed by any of them.  IMHO, just not a very clean sound.  Of all the aforementioned the 2215 sounded the best to me.  I will be selling the 2270 sometime soon and holding on to my similarly powered Sherwood S-8900A (60WPC) if that tells you anything.


 
 Well SpeakerBox, I hope I like the one I bought.  It would be a downer if I don't.  One of the reviews I've read about the 2238B says that it _does _have a "clean, clear" sound.  I'll have to wait and find out.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sorry - I had not seen the post saying you had made the purchase when I wrote down my thoughts on this.  The good news is two fold:
  
 1.) I have not heard the one you bought and it may end up being awesome, and
 2.) They tend to hold their value so if you decide to sell you should be able to get your money back.
  
 Good luck Old Groucho!


----------



## .Sup

Well its restored so it should sound clearer or cleaner


----------



## Skylab

The Marantz sound from that era is warm. If you like a brighter sound, the Marantz isn't the right choice. But I thought the 2275 and 2285 I had sounded excellent. In the end I am more of a Pionner guy in terms of sound, but that doesn't take away from the Marantzes, which I think are excellent.


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> The Marantz sound from that era is warm. If you like a brighter sound, the Marantz isn't the right choice. But I thought the 2275 and 2285 I had sounded excellent. In the end I am more of a Pionner guy in terms of sound, but that doesn't take away from the Marantzes, which I think are excellent.


 
 Thanks Skylab.  I bought the 2238B because I have a pair of K702 & SRH940 & I'm thinking they'll complement each other that way.


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> The Marantz sound from that era is warm. If you like a brighter sound, the Marantz isn't the right choice. But I thought the 2275 and 2285 I had sounded excellent. In the end I am more of a Pionner guy in terms of sound, but that doesn't take away from the Marantzes, which I think are excellent.


 
 Error.


----------



## Skylab

bobg55 said:


> Thanks Skylab.  I bought the 2238B because I have a pair of K702 & SRH940 & I'm thinking they'll complement each other that way.




Should be a good sonic match for those two headphones.


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> Sorry - I had not seen the post saying you had made the purchase when I wrote down my thoughts on this.  The good news is two fold:
> 
> 1.) I have not heard the one you bought and it may end up being awesome, and
> 2.) They tend to hold their value so if you decide to sell you should be able to get your money back.
> ...


 
 Thanks SpeakerBox. No worries.


----------



## henree

My Marantz 2220 headphone out seems to be gettng a louder background noise. Its never had a black background like a modern headphone amp. But the white noise that is there, Becomes more noticable as time goes on.
 Is this to be expected? Anything practical I can do to reduce the noise? I did inspect the capacitors and they all look fine to the eye.


----------



## ForShure

Hey, I'm new to vintage recievers but I've always enjoyed how they look and now I own one myself. Today when I was driving to work I stopped and rescued this Concept 2.5 from a pile of garbage at the curb. Can any of you guys tell me more about it and if it is a nice reciever? Google isn't proving too helpful this time.


----------



## roadcykler

forshure said:


> Hey, I'm new to vintage recievers but I've always enjoyed how they look and now I own one myself. Today when I was driving to work I stopped and rescued this Concept 2.5 from a pile of garbage at the curb. Can any of you guys tell me more about it and if it is a nice reciever? Google isn't proving too helpful this time.


 
 Check out audiokarma.org The first thread I read about it seemed pretty positive.


----------



## Saoshyant

Huh, I was not aware on the older receivers that if you're using tape out to send audio to powered speakers, that even while the receiver is off it sends the signal through.  At some point I'll research some speakers to go with this beauty, but for now I'm so headphone oriented in my listening here that my current comp speakers are fine.  BTW, I haven't found a headphone yet that I dislike with this receiver, which most likely means I'm really not that picky, but hey, it's certainly a good thing instead of bad.
  
 Hell, even the Sony MA100 sounds tolerable.  And the only reason I paid the $9 for those is they're the only things I've tried that do not audibly show the background noise when plugged into my old GBA Micro when I feel like playing that tiny little wonder.  Those old games look great on such a small screen, but the speaker in there is...  well...  nobody ever expected good thinsgs.  But alas I'm rambling, and wondering how Aiwa Shellz sound on the GBA...  don't mind me, I'm in a random state.


----------



## buson160man

forshure said:


> Hey, I'm new to vintage recievers but I've always enjoyed how they look and now I own one myself. Today when I was driving to work I stopped and rescued this Concept 2.5 from a pile of garbage at the curb. Can any of you guys tell me more about it and if it is a nice reciever? Google isn't proving too helpful this time.


 

  I am not familiar with the 2.5 model but recently I have joined the vintage receiver brotherhood . I bought a recapped concept 16.5 receiver from a stereo store that sold used equipment .I was unfamiliar with the concept brand but after having the 16.5 for a bit and after having broken it in for about a month I am totally blown away by its performance as a headphone amp . So if it is anything like a chip off the old block it is definitely worth checking out having it restored .
    When I was checking he 16.5 out on the net I was surprised about what I read about the concept brand equipment . It has certainly been proven to me based on what my recapped receiver sounds like these days .
    Do some internet research and check out some comments about their receivers . I think I saw some mention of the 2.5 in head-fi threads .


----------



## SpeakerBox

henree said:


> My Marantz 2220 headphone out seems to be gettng a louder background noise. Its never had a black background like a modern headphone amp. But the white noise that is there, Becomes more noticable as time goes on.
> Is this to be expected? Anything practical I can do to reduce the noise? I did inspect the capacitors and they all look fine to the eye.


 
  
 I have a Sherwood S-7200 with this problem - in my case some transistors are on the way out and have become noisy.  Could be the case with yours also.


----------



## buson160man

skylab said:


> Yeah, and that would be much more of a crapshoot...there was some REALLY bad solid state in the 70's, man...really bad. Whereas there were a lot of great stereo tube integrateds made.
> 
> One notable exception to the above is the Dynaco SCA-50. Pretty decent sounding SS integrated from the 70's, and highly moddable.


 

  Those old dynas were nice pieces. I used to have a sca 35 dyna tube integrated amp. The amp was reworked with modern parts at the time and had better caps and wiring in spots. The unit had some wiring that bypassed some of the controls . It was a pretty decent sounding piece that was surprising heavy for only a 17 watt per channel unit . I loved taking it over to peoples houses and have it blow away quite a few of the  new receivers of the day . Some were pretty powerful receivers too  . I used to refer my modded  dynaco sca 35 as a pocket battleship . I miss it now that I think about it . Unfortunately I lent it to some one that I met going to night   school back then and when I tried to get it  back that person had moved away and I never got it back . I guess I was to trusting of who I lent it to. Oh well I learned a valuable lesson about people back then . Just the same I did miss the amp   .


----------



## ForShure

Thanks for the help guys. Last night I opened it up and cleaned off everything and replaced the dead light bulbs, now it looks good as new! If I could describe the sound in one word I would say it's powerful. The soundstage is huge and it really seems to take command of the music. The only bad thing is that the bass is a bit loose in some bass heavy tracks. But for rock and classical music it beats my LD MKII in most areas. It's hard to believe something made in 1978 could sound so good. Also hard to believe that somebody would throw out an amp like this one!


----------



## BobG55

forshure said:


> Thanks for the help guys. Last night I opened it up and cleaned off everything and replaced the dead light bulbs, now it looks good as new! If I could describe the sound in one word I would say it's powerful. The soundstage is huge and it really seems to take command of the music. The only bad thing is that the bass is a bit loose in some bass heavy tracks. But for rock and classical music it beats my LD MKII in most areas. It's hard to believe something made in 1978 could sound so good. Also hard to believe that somebody would throw out an amp like this one!


 
 Welcome to the Vintage amp thread* ForShure*.  Here's a link that should reassure you about your Concept 2.5; it appears to be highly regarded by quite a lot of audiophiles.
  
 http://lancaster.es.craigslist.org/ele/4595516191.html


----------



## LugBug1

bobg55 said:


> The photograph is from Google Images / I was not able to transfer the image of my purchase from ebay.
> 
> Just bought this baby, Marantz 2238B, fully serviced, 30 Day Warranty,from Investments Audio, Portland OR, (ebay.ca) w/ delivery & customs it totals : $640 CDN.  I wanted one & I got it.  It's not the 2270B but it will do.  I read the reviews & watched a few reviews on youtube & I know in order to get anything close, by today's standards, to what this amp will sound like, I'd have to spend at least $2000.00+
> 
> ...


 
 No sniggering here buddy  I think this could be a nice compliment to your neutral Fisher. I owned the 2216B and thought the sound was very good. It was warm but also had balance compared to my earlier 2220. Based on this I would probably always go for a 'B' model. Also as Skylab says your headphones should be a good match, I know from experience that the K701/2 work excellent with vintage amps especially warmer tilted ones. They seem to have a kind of planar-esque resistance to impedance curves and they really appreciate the power!  
  
 Here is my old friend on the bottom 

  
  Plus as always this hobby is subjective and one man's poison is another mans poopoo (just made that one up ). I found my personal preference with Sansui and then NAD after trying many different makes and models. But I kept my Marantz a long time as I kept going back to it, but in the end it just didn't have the smoothness that I was after.
  
 But I must explain why I appreciate smoothness...
  
 My set up over the last couple of years has been based around the HD800. The most unforgiving headphone out-there as I'm sure you know. But I absolutely love it! It's pretty much perfect for my wants and music taste. So my rigs have been built around it. Some have worked, some haven't. But this is how I have come to a kind of happy place with vintage NAD. For me they seem to have that Sansui liquidy goodness but with less distortion and blacker background - I just wish they looked like 70's Marantz!!


----------



## BobG55

*"one man's poison is another mans poopoo" -LugBug1 *(2014)
_Def. : ??????????????? - _*Bartlett's Quotations*
  
 Thanks *LugBug1*; you're absolutely right, it is subjective.  There's another reason I bought the 2238B : it was part of the first "good/real" stereo I bought back in '79 (I was 24).  I bought the 2238B, a Philipps belt drive turntable & Castle speakers (made in England, back then anyways). So it was also for sentimental reasons.  As *SpeakerBox *pointed out, I can always sell it if I don't like it but I think I'll keep it for a while.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bobg55 said:


> *"one man's poison is another mans poopoo" -LugBug1 *(2014)
> _Def. : ??????????????? - _*Webster's Collegiate*
> 
> Thanks *LugBug1*; you're absolutely right, it is subjective.  There's another reason I bought the 2238B : it was part of the first "good/real" stereo I bought back in '79 (I was 24).  I bought the 2238B, a Philipps belt drive turntable & Castle speakers (made in England, back then anyways). So it was also for sentimental reasons.  As *SpeakerBox *pointed out, I can always sell it if I don't like it but I think I'll keep it for a while.


 
  
 A lot to be said for your first system.  I had a HK 330A with Audio Analyst speakers, not that great by vintage standards, but I keep finding myself wanting to buy one!


----------



## henree

I really like the Marantz 2220. It has a nice warm rich sound. I am looking for a leaner less warm and speedier Marantz sound though. Which model from the 70's would fit the bill?


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > *"one man's poison is another mans poopoo" -LugBug1 *(2014)
> ...


 
 I guess for audiophile's it's like your first true love, you never forget her.


----------



## Gardyloo

bobg55 said:


> I guess for audiophile's it's like your first true love, you never forget her.


 
 True! Lucky for me, I still have my old Marantz 2220B I bought when I graduated high school. I was waffling recently with trading up to a bigger vintage model, but think I'll keep it and get it refurb/recapped. I admit to having an emotional attachment to it.
  
 I got a line on a Technics SL-2000, says mint in box for $240. What do you think of this unit and price.? Seller is with AK.  On the other hand, my DH suggests instead getting a modern TT with USB and Analog (Audio Technica AT-LP-220). Thoughts please?
  I'm mostly going to be listening through some Pioneer bookshelf speakers one of the folks here recommended; haven't bought them yet..


----------



## BobG55

Wish I could help you *Gardyloo *but I don't know anything about that particular model.  I would recommend you go with what you believe will be most enjoyable for you in the long run. Sorry I can't be of any more help.  Maybe someone on this thread reading your post might be able to help you more.  Good luck to you man.


----------



## Gardyloo

No worries Old Groucho, a member PM'd me and I'm going to pass on this TT.
  
 Love this forum!


----------



## mr.khali

Anybody familiar with the Kenwood KA 5500?  I have been looking around for one locally but I have had no success.  There are some positive things written about it on the net but I would like to know if anybody has heard that model and can compare it to the general Sansui, Marantz or Pioneer sound.  I need something a bit smaller for my desk and was thinking of getting a modern headphone amp to replace my Sansui amp but if I can find this Kenwood unit it should do the trick.


----------



## Oregonian

I own a KA-5700. Had two of them and traded one I on my Pioneer SA-9900.

It was my first vintage amp and sold me on the use of vintage for headphones. Has the meters and a very nice sound. 

I'm the wrong person to describe the sound compared to other brands. I'll just say I will always keep this Kenwood.


----------



## kokushu

Between the marantz 1152dc and the yamaha ca 1010 which one have the best headphone section.  What should I look for in vintage gear to let me know that its will be great with headphone.  Would using the yamaha ca 1010 in class A mode help speaker and headphone at all?  Thank you in advance.


----------



## SpeakerBox

kokushu said:


> Between the marantz 1152dc and the yamaha ca 1010 which one have the best headphone section.  What should I look for in vintage gear to let me know that its will be great with headphone.  Would using the yamaha ca 1010 in class A mode help speaker and headphone at all?  Thank you in advance.


 
  
 In my experience - more power really helps.  Moving from a Sherwood S-7100A (17WPC) to a Sherwood S-8900A (60WPC) made a huge difference in my HP listening.  Much more punch and definition.  Power is not the only measure, but it sure helps!


----------



## ssrock64

I've been looking for something modest and well-kept for awhile after getting rid of my PAT-4 and SX780, and I may have a lead on a 1980-ish Modular Component Systems model that I think I'll go audition tomorrow. It's not the monstrous MCS 3125, but a smaller and earlier 3233. All I know for sure is that MCS equipment was sold through JC Penney, and that their designs were sourced from pretty much anywhere, making them really hit and miss. I believe the 3233 is a Technics-sourced model, but I could be wrong. I already have a decent setup for my HD650s, but I want to get back into vintage without spending too much. If it turns out to be in good working condition when I go see it tomorrow, what do you think is a fair price? Photo from the ad included below:


----------



## AudioArby

A few of my vintage receivers...

My Sansui 8080DB






My Yamaha CR-1020






My Sansui 771






My Realistic STA-2000D


----------



## AudioArby

I have a few. I don't have enough posts to show them. I have the following. (They all work)

Sansui 8080DB
Sansui 771
Yamaha CR-1000
Yamaha CR-1020
Realistic STA-2000D
Pioneer SX-780
Akai AA-1150


----------



## Silent One

Can't wait for you to get those pix up!


----------



## AudioArby

The mod was nice enough to post them


----------



## buson160man

audioarby said:


> A few of my vintage receivers...
> 
> My Sansui 8080DB
> 
> ...


 

  Nice collection I wish I had the space to collect a few of the vintage receivers . Some of them sure looked pretty . I guess  I am just going to be happy with my concept 16.5 . But it is turning out to be real honey .


----------



## AudioArby

Although I never heard a Concept 16.5 they are very high regarded. The 160 WPC must be nice.


----------



## mr.khali

Love the look of the Yamaha's.  Absolutely beautiful!  I didn't love the sound of the CA 810 I had as a headphone amp but it was pretty.  It probably would of been a great match with certain speakers however.


----------



## derbigpr

I'm liking my Onkyo a lot now, I actually prefer it to Musical Fidelity M1Hpap, as ridiculous as that might sound. It has a more clear and bright sound, the soundstage expands a lot with proper recordings. Its almost as if it has a built in crossfeed circuit. I guess worse channel separation compared to headphone amps actually plays in favor of the sound. Bass is also wonderful on T1's, felt light at first, but now M1's bass feels almost muddy in comparison.


----------



## buson160man

audioarby said:


> Although I never heard a Concept 16.5 they are very high regarded. The 160 WPC must be nice.


 

 Yes it is proving to be nice to have that kind of horsepower for headphone listening .Thanks.


----------



## buson160man

derbigpr said:


> I'm liking my Onkyo a lot now, I actually prefer it to Musical Fidelity M1Hpap, as ridiculous as that might sound. It has a more clear and bright sound, the soundstage expands a lot with proper recordings. Its almost as if it has a built in crossfeed circuit. I guess worse channel separation compared to headphone amps actually plays in favor of the sound. Bass is also wonderful on T1's, felt light at first, but now M1's bass feels almost muddy in comparison.


 

 What onkyo do you have ? I used to  have a tx 670 onkyo receiver a ways back . I bought the onkyo before they became a household name . From what I remembered it had 56watts per channel and sounded better than most of the name brand receivers back then . But it finally blew up on me and I had to dispose of it .


----------



## roadcykler

Echo Audio in Portland just listed a G-22000 for the low, low price of $1795. They rate it a 7/10 but in my experience, they are pretty conservative with their ratings. I don't have room for that behemoth but someone else may be interested.


----------



## MIKELAP

Theres a nice Pioneer 1980 on Canuck Audio Mart for a measly $2000.00                  http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649138610-pioneer-sx1980-godzilla-receiver-biggest-pioneer-ever/


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> Echo Audio in Portland just listed a G-22000 for the low, low price of $1795. They rate it a 7/10 but in my experience, they are pretty conservative with their ratings. I don't have room for that behemoth but someone else may be interested.




That's the same model beast that Silent One just sold.........a second sighting and a rare one at that. $1795 sounds reasonable all things considered.


----------



## wotts

I missed a G33K locally for $1800 about a year ago. That still burns me when I think about it.


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> That's the same model beast that Silent One just sold.........a second sighting and a rare one at that. $1795 sounds reasonable all things considered.


 
 Considering in 1978 it was $1400, the price they show isn't bad at all, if it's in good shape. But, even I could afford it, I have nowhere to put it. None of the places I have stereos, is big enough without some major re-configuration.


----------



## Silent One

Just over a year ago, a G33k sold for $10,000 in West Sacramento 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 What both the G-33000 & G-22000 share is some unobtainable original parts.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I missed a G33K locally for $1800 about a year ago. That still burns me when I think about it.


 
 I was really pulling for you!


----------



## jring

pepper said:


> Hey, I am wondering if you guys could help me with out with a couple of short questions:
> 
> 1. I've read that replacing all electrolytic capacitors is absolutely essential on any vintage amp. What are the effects of doing so to the sound? And, what are the risks of not replacing them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) replacing electrolytics in old (like 20 years plus) gear is a good idea for several reasons:
  
 - they do age - sometimes they just sound bad, sometimes you get smoke signals or a blown output stage.
  
 - to properly measure them (capacity, ESR and isolation/leak current) you need a lot of measuring equipment and you need to solder them out. Since most only cost a few cents even when taking brand stuff with higher voltage and 105 centigrade temp tolerance, you can as well skip the measuring and just replace. Mark the polarity before unsoldering when doing so!
  
 - in the signal path electrolytics are not really optimal and replacing those with wima or the like might improve the sound (but will change the original sound).
  
 2) in most cases not. electrolytics should be tested or replaced as well as the anti interference capacitors directly at the power switch (only replace with proper X or Y type rated for use on mains power!). If you have a selenium rectifier pay close attention to the output voltage - these tend to grow in resistance with age and the DC voltage is too low. Also they are hard to get nowadays and will age again. Replacing them with Si rectifiers is also not so easy since the latter have a lot less resistance and thus the DC will be too high and you need a heating resistor.
  
 3) haven't heard of this but anyways I don't own any phones or speakers where I dare to turn up beyond 10 - although my NAD is a bit stronger than your average 3020.
  
 Joachim


----------



## Saoshyant

Well, I had received two major pieces of listening hardware around the same time, he SX-737 I am loving, and the X5.  I've never been much of a desktop listener, but I find that's changing due to the recent acquisition.  The X5, while very capable and clean and paired with an E12, is great for it's purpose, portable listening, which for me involves being able to listen in bed, on the back porch, chores, etc., but cannot compare in some respects to the receiver, mainly when it comes to bass.  The thing is, the headphone I go for whenever I want to listen for the sake of fun has been the he-400, more and more of late.  Unless I were to start double amping by ignoring the line out and doing the headphone jack so I can use the X5's EQ, there is no way the E12 could ever keep up with the bass provided by the SX-737.  I'm not really a basshead, although I do have basshead tendancies, it's just that there is a purpose for everything, and I have a lot of music I enjoy that has a noticable bass emphasis in it.  Even leaving the bass in the middle at it's default setting, or what I'd naturally assume to be the intended default, and just leaving the loudness switch on, there is just no comparison.  I think the solution I'd really have to find for portable bass listening is a truly bassy yet good quality IEM or headphone.  I swear, this hobby is more addicting than http://www.roundrockdonuts.com/ and obviously nowhere close to as cheap either.
  
 I honestly feel slightly bad for the X5, because before the arrival of both these wonderful bits of hardware, I listened on my X3 quite a lot, which I absentmindedly assumed would continue to be the case.  I know, first world problems, I have too many listening choices and not enough ears.  At least I can say without a doubt the X5 sounds magnificent with classical.
  
 I just had a bad thought...  I wonder how much bass this receiver could push into my xb500...  I get the feeling this is something I should most likely not find out.


----------



## jodgey4

> Originally Posted by *Saoshyant* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I swear, this hobby is more addicting than http://www.roundrockdonuts.com/ and obviously nowhere close to as cheap either.
> 
> I just had a bad thought...  I wonder how much bass this receiver could push into my xb500...  I get the feeling this is something I should most likely not find out.


 
 Not possible... those donuts could resurrect you with their holy taste alone. If I lived closer... I'd probably be doing horrible things to feed my inevitable addiction to them right now. Sorry if that sounds weird, guys. I'm just saying... don't knock 'em 'till you've tried 'em!
  
 But yeah... you should do that with the XB's and the paper test!


----------



## Saoshyant

jodgey4 said:


> Not possible... those donuts could resurrect you with their holy taste alone. If I lived closer... I'd probably be doing horrible things to feed my inevitable addiction to them right now. Sorry if that sounds weird, guys. I'm just saying... don't knock 'em 'till you've tried 'em!
> 
> But yeah... you should do that with the XB's and the paper test!




Ha, I live pretty close to them


----------



## Greyman666

I've been through many iterations on receivers, never thinking of keeping any of them, and currently use a Pioneer Elite with my home theater.
 However, I kept a Marantz SR2000 that I purchased in 1980. I used it about  year ago when ripping some old vinyl .
 It's in perfect condition. Hell, its not even dusty.
  
 I'll give it a try as a headphone amp, um, once I figure out where I left my analog hat...


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a H/K 490i. I'm glad I didn't pass it up because it is really nice. Would not mind a 690i now


----------



## Saoshyant

Gorgeous find!


----------



## joehalo

I've been to hundreds of garage sales and this is the first time I've found any vintage audio! A little deoxit, some LEDs and now she's looking good.


----------



## captouch

joehalo said:


> I've been to hundreds of garage sales and this is the first time I've found any vintage audio! A little deoxit, some LEDs and now she's looking good.


 
  
 Wow, nice and minty.  Great pick up.


----------



## AudioArby

Very nice Marantz.


----------



## LugBug1

joehalo said:


> I've been to hundreds of garage sales and this is the first time I've found any vintage audio! A little deoxit, some LEDs and now she's looking good.


 
 Those babies sure look good with the LED's. Nice find.
  
  
@harrinj I've never tried a H/K, that model looks really cool. Congrats!


----------



## harrinj

Trying to get a Kenwood KA-9100 but the seller just does not respond. Anyone else ever deal with a seller that does not respond? There's no number just email...


----------



## wotts

I have a line on two Marantz units and it's the same story. I've been emailing since Saturday.


----------



## harrinj

Yeah I don't know what the deal is. I have sent two emails and it's day 3 now. I've wanted a KA-9100 for two years and it's the first one that's not been an obnoxious price. well I hope you and I get responses... You'd think if they had no plans of replying to emails, that they would put a phone number :/


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> Yeah I don't know what the deal is. I have sent two emails and it's day 3 now. I've wanted a KA-9100 for two years and it's the first one that's not been an obnoxious price. well I hope you and I get responses... You'd think if they had no plans of replying to emails, that they would put a phone number :/


 
  
 Sometimes they unknowingly are set up to send CL emails into their junk folders.  Had that happen to me once.


----------



## harrinj

That's what I am afraid of and would explain why it's still available in an area anything else in this nature rarely would be 23 days on CL. I'd link the ad but don't want to jinx it just in case. I've learned early on never to do that here unless I've already made contact and am going to get it.  

 It's probably an old guy (it appears to be in a shop) and does not know anything about computers and like you said, The replies are going to a spam/junk folder he/she probably does not know even exists.


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


> I have a line on two Marantz units and it's the same story. I've been emailing since Saturday.


 
 Are looking to by two more vintage receivers?? What are these? number 4 and 5??


----------



## Oregonian

musicman59 said:


> Are looking to by two more vintage receivers?? What are these? number *4 and 5*??


 
  
 Amateurs.  I've got 8.............


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Amateurs.  I've got 8.............:eek:


 14 here


----------



## ssrock64

2! Beat that!


----------



## Silent One

3... 2.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> 14 here




Oregon weather must be the cause..........


----------



## wotts

musicman59 said:


> Are looking to by two more vintage receivers?? What are these? number 4 and 5??




7 and 8


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> Oregon weather must be the cause..........


 





  Apparently, that's some good livin' up there!


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> 7 and 8


 





 I'd like to make another contribution...


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> Oregon weather must be the cause..........


 
 I'm just across the river and only have one. Then again, I stopped buying things until I sold the previous one with one exception. Don't have room and I don't like stuff sitting in a closet not being used.


----------



## harrinj

Ugh this person with this KA-9100 just will not reply. If there's still nothing by Saturday I'm giving up. It sucks because another Kenwood I want so bad the KR-9600 was on CL a couple weeks back for.......................$275! Missed out on that one. It had been posted for 3 days and when I was gonna contact and clicked the bookmark for it, poof... It was removed. Somebody got a good deal. :/ all the other 9600's I've seen they want $600 or more.


----------



## Silent One

CL: Occasionally, some of those listings are posted by hackers/spammers. And sometimes real listings hijacked by them. But it definitely pays to investigate just in case.


----------



## harrinj

Well here is the ad. Can't hurt posting it now since they don't respond.

http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/4582405454.html

The images aren't on the internet so they didn't use fake images but for THIS to still be available (in Eugene of all places) is odd I think. Looks like its in some kind of second hand shop. They also have a B&O Beogram 4004 TT posted too now that definitely since they aren't asking an obnoxious fortune I think would not last long on CL in Eugene with those awful hipsters there (I'll hold in a rant about those things lol) and the other Eugene folk.


----------



## musicman59

You are all vintage addicts!


----------



## AudioArby

musicman59 said:


> You are all vintage addicts!


 
 Thank you... Thank you very much


----------



## wotts

musicman59 said:


> You are all vintage addicts!


----------



## buson160man

I would like to make a suggestion to anyone with a concept receiver . I tried isoclean fuses in my concept receiver and the difference is just amazing . It has transformed my receiver into a truly reference level headphone amp . I am sure you will not be disappointed if you try the isoclean fuses in your concept receiver . This has got to be one of the better 50 buck tweaks that I have come across .The difference it makes is not subtle it is huge .


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> I'm just across the river and only have one. Then again, I stopped buying things until I sold the previous one with one exception. Don't have room and I don't like stuff sitting in a closet not being used.




The thing is, in my case they ALL are in use.

1 - Spec system in the audio room feeding Cerwin Vegas
2 - SX-1050 in family room feeding a pair of Polk Audio speakers
3 - SA-9900 in the garage feeding the Klipsch 3.2's for music
4 - Fisher 880C in the garage feeding Yamaha speakers as part of my TV system for workouts
5 - Realistic STA64B in my office fed from my Yoga into an Altec Lansing 2.1 system via a Schoche adapter
6 - Kenwood KA-5700 in home office feeding a pair of Advent bookshelfs
7 - Hitach 804 in living room for the wife's FM music
8 - Pioneer SA-7500 in family room dedicated to headphone listening fed by a NuForce iDo and iPhone4

My rule was to have them all in use and I can honestly say they all get used regularly. 

I'm nuts I just realized. Me love vintage.........


----------



## harrinj

I always change mine out. 

I've been looking up second hand stores in Eugene trying to find this store it looks like this KA-9100 is at no luck and Still no response... Kinda ticked off but I guess its time to give up on it.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> musicman59 said:
> 
> 
> > You are all vintage addicts!


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> I would like to make a suggestion to anyone with a concept receiver . I tried isoclean fuses in my concept receiver and the difference is just amazing . It has transformed my receiver into a truly reference level headphone amp . I am sure you will not be disappointed if you try the isoclean fuses in your concept receiver . This has got to be one of the better 50 buck tweaks that I have come across .The difference it makes is not subtle it is huge .


 
 Fuse swap: This is something I didn't think to do. And will be one of the first things I'll try when I return to vintage.


----------



## AudioArby

OK, I looked at isocleans' website and don't know how a 1/2" slow-blow fuse is going to vastly improve audio out of a music source. I also don't want to put a slow-blow in place of a fast-blow fuse. Keep the 24k gold end caps (you don't want to mix metals anyway). A regular fuse costs 25 cents. I'm not paying over 40 bucks for a piece of wire whose main function is to break.


----------



## Silent One

Replace or no @ 20cents & up, I would think cleaning the contacts (fuse holder) might prove helpful with a vintage lovely. And while I'm in there I'd replace the fuse anyway...


----------



## AudioArby

Or replace the fuse holders completely and buy pig tail fuses. Then solder them in if your worried it's going to cause noise. Spend your money replacing capacitors, semiconductors and fuse resistors on vintage gear. They're what goes wrong on vintage equipment.


----------



## Arsis

a fuse!?! c'mon! no. way.


----------



## Silent One

Not every case but some tweaks are cheap to try (if no cost at all, tweak dependent). And cheaper when one already owns something they can swap in. I know some of us here have a surplus of parts, amps and cans with an extra fuse or two among them.


----------



## harrinj

I'm going to every antique store, second hand/furniture store tomorrow in Eugene and Springfield. I'm going to find that damn KA-9100 I WILL FIND IT! 

 Wish me luck... haha


----------



## Silent One

You got it, harrinj!


----------



## harrinj

thanks                                   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 

 If there is anyone on here that lives in or near the Eugene area and might recognize the store this is in by the background in the images, please tell me! I can't imagine it's that hollywood antiques, they'd literally want a million dollars for something like this. 

 http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/4582405454.html

 http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/4582395427.html


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> I'm going to every antique store, second hand/furniture store tomorrow in Eugene and Springfield. I'm going to find that damn KA-9100 I WILL FIND IT!
> 
> 
> Wish me luck... haha




There's a guy in Eugene who lists in CL all the time who has a variety of good stuff all the time. Have you noticed his ads? Multiple items every week.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> There's a guy in Eugene who lists in CL all the time who has a variety of good stuff all the time. Have you noticed his ads? Multiple items every week.


 
 Hi Oregonian! You mean that guy who had TONS of receivers and was listing them all? I saw all his but was not interested in any except that one Pioneer he had and wanted $500 for but I didn't have any money.


----------



## roadcykler

musicman59 said:


> You are all vintage addicts!


 
 I don't have a problem. I can quit whenever I want.


----------



## PhoenixG

audioarby said:


> OK, I looked at isocleans' website and don't know how a 1/2" slow-blow fuse is going to vastly improve audio out of a music source. I also don't want to put a slow-blow in place of a fast-blow fuse. Keep the 24k gold end caps (you don't want to mix metals anyway). A regular fuse costs 25 cents. I'm not paying over 40 bucks for a piece of wire whose main function is to break.


 
 I'm going to second that whole heartedly. New fuses won't change anything on an electrical level, but I'd guess that the act of changing the fuse did clean the contacts a bit. Please do not quote me the brand's marketing propaganda, that stuff is written like science fantasy. I would be willing to bet that you will not find a difference between your new fuses and a regular old pair of $.60 fuses with a squirt of deoxit on all your fuse contacts. Maybe splurge $2 on the silver contact fuses, but $50 is extreme. I have the same issue all the time with my speakers. The fuse is right in the signal path and is almost always dirty on anything older than 10 years. Just taking things apart and getting them clean can have an extreme effect on sound. 
 I'm glad you have found something you really like and that you are comfortable changing out components, but I think you may have fallen for the common audio trap of "expensive is better" that most vintage guys eschew.
 If you want to prove me wrong, scrub those contacts with deoxit (and maybe fine grit sandpaper) or solder in a nice $2 pigtail fuse, and then see if there is a difference. If there is, then follow your bliss.
 Finally, please don't replace fast fuses with slow fuses unless you like pain.
 Cheers


----------



## Silent One

roadcykler said:


> I don't have a problem. I can quit whenever I want.


----------



## buson160man

audioarby said:


> OK, I looked at isocleans' website and don't know how a 1/2" slow-blow fuse is going to vastly improve audio out of a music source. I also don't want to put a slow-blow in place of a fast-blow fuse. Keep the 24k gold end caps (you don't want to mix metals anyway). A regular fuse costs 25 cents. I'm not paying over 40 bucks for a piece of wire whose main function is to break.


 

  If mixing metals was a problem these fuses would not be ul approved. And these fuses have been around for awhile and I have seen no mention of any problems caused by gold plating on fuses .
 I have all slow blow fuses in my equipment and I have never had any issues whatsoever .
   I know that 50 bucks is ridiculous pricing but so far as pricing for tweaks that is not as bad as some of the gauging they do with power cords .They are asking just plain obscenely inflated prices for some of the esoteric brands . I was at a dealer in my area recently and the dealer showed me a nordost odin interconnect come on sixteen thousand dollars for a interconnect . You can  buy a car for that .
    That is one reason I have switched to headphones you get a pretty good bang for your buck without mortgaging your home and bringing you to the edge of bankruptcy.
    If you have not tried upgrading your fuses you will not know will you? I think you will be surprised at the difference that 1/2 inch fuse can make .


----------



## LugBug1

I haven't bought a new vintage piece in over two months.... 
  
 Hope I'm not content. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I need help... !!


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> I haven't bought a new vintage piece in over two months....
> 
> Hope I'm not content.
> 
> ...


 
 You're fine, no worries. Recovery can seem a bit odd at first but you'll be in full vintage hunting mode in no time.


----------



## LugBug1

silent one said:


> You're fine, no worries. Recovery can seem a bit odd at first but you'll be in full vintage hunting mode in no time.


 
 I hope you're right my friend... I hope you are right..
  
(_plus the fact I've been skint for the last few months hasn't helped.. _


----------



## SpeakerBox

arsis said:


> a fuse!?! c'mon! no. way.


 
  
 Goes back to the old debate of power cords, conditioning, outlets , ET. Al. making a positive difference in sound.  I happen to think they do, but I think most audiophiles would disagree with me.   An interesting investigation just the same.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Finished the recap (minus filter caps) of my SX1250 Friday night.  Here are the results:
  

  
 It sounds fantastic!


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> Finished the recap (minus filter caps) of my SX1250 Friday night.  Here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds fantastic!


 
 Haha love it! And you've just added probably $500 of investment


----------



## roadcykler

buson160man said:


> If mixing metals was a problem these fuses would not be ul approved. And these fuses have been around for awhile and I have seen no mention of any problems caused by gold plating on fuses .
> I have all slow blow fuses in my equipment and I have never had any issues whatsoever .
> I know that 50 bucks is ridiculous pricing but so far as pricing for tweaks that is not as bad as some of the gauging they do with power cords .They are asking just plain obscenely inflated prices for some of the esoteric brands . I was at a dealer in my area recently and the dealer showed me a nordost odin interconnect come on sixteen thousand dollars for a interconnect . You can  buy a car for that .
> That is one reason I have switched to headphones you get a pretty good bang for your buck without mortgaging your home and bringing you to the edge of bankruptcy.
> If you have not tried upgrading your fuses you will not know will you? I think you will be surprised at the difference that 1/2 inch fuse can make .


 
 Mixing metals has nothing to do with UL approval. It has to do with galvanic corrosion. $50 may not be much in total dollars but in % of dollars spent on normal fuses, it's huge. But, if that's how you want to spend your money, regardless of the objective difference, who are we to quibble? I'd rather buy $50 worth of new music or even old stuff on vinyl.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm quite a fan of $50 of good beef jerky myself


----------



## LugBug1

Hmmm... Think I'd treat myself to a cheeky bottle of Bourbon and then the rest on beef jerky 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Those two fuse together very well


----------



## SpeakerBox

lugbug1 said:


> Haha love it! And you've just added probably $500 of investment


 
  
 Thanks LugBug.  Sounds way too good to ever sell it now.  The tuner and phono sounded harsh - but now that all the tantalum caps are gone it is smooth sailing!


----------



## Skylab

buson160man said:


> I have all slow blow fuses in my equipment and I have never had any issues whatsoever .




This is actually VERY risky. The only reason you haven't had a problem is, well, the fuse hasn't been needed. But one should NEVER, EVER replace a fast-blow fuse with a slow-blow fuse. Forget about the sound...you are risking blowing up unobtainable parts by doing this. The fact that there hasn't been a problem YET means nothing. I haven't ever blown the fast-blow fuses in my SX-1980, but that doesn't mean I won't ever, and if the fuses are needed, they MUST be the correct type. Fast and slow blow fuses are NOT safely interchangeable.


----------



## AudioArby

speakerbox said:


> Finished the recap (minus filter caps) of my SX1250 Friday night.  Here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




THAT is what you should spend money on. It probably sound much better and those replaced caps will be good for another 40 years. Good job.


----------



## Silent One

There's a renowned former Japanese design engineer for Matshu**** (Panasonic) who spent years listening to many many parts of amps/preamps and other electronic goodies. And learned through his experience that even an IEC connector, power cord, chassis and even the selection of footers can influence an amp's sound. 




 Ah...choices, choices.
  
 R.I.P. Ken Shindo
 Founder; Design Engineer - Shindo Laboratory


----------



## harrinj

I'm on my quest in Eugene. One store down. Sent another email today and no response still. I'll find that KA-9100...

Somehow I posted this by accident in another forum. Not sure how that happened...


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> I'm on my quest in Eugene. One store down. Sent another email today and no response still. I'll find that KA-9100...
> 
> Somehow I posted this by accident in another forum. *Not sure how that happened...*


 
 We do...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 nuthin' like being in hot pursuit! I'm way down in SoCal pulling for you like no other!!!


----------



## harrinj

Thanks! Two places down now. Looking in Springfield at a third place in a bit.

It would be so much easier if he'd just answer. He's either a creep, dead, its sold and he hasn't taken it down, or its going into a junk folder. I hope its the last one. But its fun to look at these shops.


----------



## Silent One

Suspenseful Stereo Saturday..._get back in there._ You only have two remaining.


----------



## SpeakerBox

audioarby said:


> THAT is what you should spend money on. It probably sound much better and those replaced caps will be good for another 40 years. Good job.


 
  
 Thanks.  But you realize that after this I must keep tweaking, after all I am obsessed - just ask my wife.


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> Suspenseful Stereo Saturday..._get back in there._ You only have two remaining. :evil:




I give up. I've been to maybe 11 places now and all the ones in Coburg too. I have no idea where it could be at. That stereo guy in Eugene probably got his grubby $45 hands on it anyways. Ugh I gave it a try at least.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Seems my Marantz 2270 looks a bit small compared to the 1250 - giving it a listen before I decide if I will sell it it.  It has been mostly recapped.  Also bias, offset, and supply rails adjusted per service manual.  A very nice, powerful sounding unit.  Build quality is awesome!


----------



## roadcykler

silent one said:


> There's a renowned former Japanese design engineer for Matshu**** (Panasonic) who spent years listening to many many parts of amps/preamps and other electronic goodies. And learned through his experience that even an IEC connector, power cord, chassis and even the selection of footers can influence an amp's sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's no doubt he was quite the stereo guy but for many folks, there's also no doubt that suggestibility or expectation can greatly influence what we hear.


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> I give up. I've been to maybe 11 places now and all the ones in Coburg too. I have no idea where it could be at. That stereo guy in Eugene probably got his grubby $45 hands on it anyways. Ugh I gave it a try at least.


 
 In my view, the pursuit of this vintage lovely should still leave your Saturday _super..._you took the shot!


----------



## Silent One

roadcykler said:


> There's no doubt he was quite the stereo guy but for many folks, there's also no doubt that suggestibility or expectation can greatly influence what we hear.


 
 Both of our points happily co-exist.


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> In my view, the pursuit of this vintage lovely should still leave your Saturday _super..._you took the shot!




Yup


----------



## buson160man

audioarby said:


> THAT is what you should spend money on. It probably sound much better and those replaced caps will be good for another 40 years. Good job.


 

  How many caps did you replace? Just curious.


----------



## buson160man

speakerbox said:


> Finished the recap (minus filter caps) of my SX1250 Friday night.  Here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds fantastic!


 

  How many caps did you have to replace? Just curious.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think the total was right around 100 caps replaced.


----------



## Oregonian

That's some impressive work there bud.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> That's some impressive work there bud.


 
  
 Thanks much for the kind comments - I certainly have been rewarded for my efforts with a very nice sounding receiver.  The whole unit now seems to have an organic sound to it with lots of definition, smoothness, and punch.  I just love it.


----------



## ssrock64

Is anyone familiar with the early-eighties Sansui R-5? There's one for sale near where my girlfriend attends school for about $40 in working order, and I might jump on it when I visit her next.


----------



## roadcykler

ssrock64 said:


> Is anyone familiar with the early-eighties Sansui R-5? There's one for sale near where my girlfriend attends school for about $40 in working order, and I might jump on it when I visit her next.


 
 Audio Karma is the go-to site for info about vintage stuff if you can't find out elsewhere.


----------



## BobG55

Got my Marantz 2238B today.  Two reasons why I bought this particular model : one, like most Marantz receivers it has the "mono" option & I have the Beatles Mono Box Set; two, it's the same receiver I bought back in '79, which as I stated in an earlier post, was my first "quality" amplifier/stereo system I ever bought & I remember liking it.  
  
 As I'm writing I'm listening to the "Hard Days Night" album with the mono option on, the bass at 3 o'clock, the mids at 1 o'clock, the treble at 5 o'clock & the vol. at 9 o'clock.  I'm presently using the HD600; earlier I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band with the K702.  The mono recording is centred & w/the mono option on the receiver the sound comes to the forefront & is more spread out at the same time/better soundstage.  The instruments are clear & separated.  The voices are distinct & quite nice.  Everything is balanced.  It's about what I was hoping for because the Beatles' Mono recordings are different than the stereo ones & since the emphasis on the production quality was on the mono versions when they recorded their albums (in mono until the end of 1967, Magical Mystery Tour) it's quite different to listen to them in mono on the amp/receiver. With the Fisher 500C & the Kenwood KA-8006 I can only listen to the mono albums in stereo mode.  As I've already indicated the "mono" mode on the Marantz makes a big difference to my ears anyways & I have my old amp back.  It's all good.  Love the vintage sound.


----------



## harrinj

bobg55 said:


> Got my Marantz 2238B today.  Two reasons why I bought this particular model : one, like most Marantz receivers it has the "mono" option & I have the Beatles Mono Box Set; two, it's the same receiver I bought back in '79, which as I stated in an earlier post, was my first "quality" amplifier/stereo system I ever bought & I remember liking it.
> 
> As I'm writing I'm listening to the "Hard Days Night" album with the mono option on, the bass at 3 o'clock, the mids at 1 o'clock, the treble at 5 o'clock & the vol. at 9 o'clock.  I'm presently using the HD600; earlier I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band with the K702.  The mono recording is centred & w/the mono option on the receiver the sound comes to the forefront & is more spread out at the same time/better soundstage.  The instruments are clear & separated.  The voices are distinct & quite nice.  Everything is balanced.  It's about what I was hoping for because the Beatles' Mono recordings are different than the stereo ones & since the emphasis on the production quality was on the mono versions when they recorded their albums (in mono until the end of 1967, Magical Mystery Tour) it's quite different to listen to them in mono on the amp/receiver. With the Fisher 500C & the Kenwood KA-8006 I can only listen to the mono albums in stereo mode.  As I've already indicated the "mono" mode on the Marantz makes a big difference to my ears anyways & I have my old amp back.  It's all good.  Love the vintage sound.


 
 The 2238B is a nice one. congrats!


----------



## LugBug1

bobg55 said:


> Got my Marantz 2238B today.  Two reasons why I bought this particular model : one, like most Marantz receivers it has the "mono" option & I have the Beatles Mono Box Set; two, it's the same receiver I bought back in '79, which as I stated in an earlier post, was my first "quality" amplifier/stereo system I ever bought & I remember liking it.
> 
> As I'm writing I'm listening to the "Hard Days Night" album with the mono option on, the bass at 3 o'clock, the mids at 1 o'clock, the treble at 5 o'clock & the vol. at 9 o'clock.  I'm presently using the HD600; earlier I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band with the K702.  The mono recording is centred & w/the mono option on the receiver the sound comes to the forefront & is more spread out at the same time/better soundstage.  The instruments are clear & separated.  The voices are distinct & quite nice.  Everything is balanced.  It's about what I was hoping for because the Beatles' Mono recordings are different than the stereo ones & since the emphasis on the production quality was on the mono versions when they recorded their albums (in mono until the end of 1967, Magical Mystery Tour) it's quite different to listen to them in mono on the amp/receiver. With the Fisher 500C & the Kenwood KA-8006 I can only listen to the mono albums in stereo mode.  As I've already indicated the "mono" mode on the Marantz makes a big difference to my ears anyways & I have my old amp back.  It's all good.  Love the vintage sound.


 
 Congrats and pleased you're enjoying it buddy! 
  
 How is the normal stereo sound without tone added compared to your Fisher?


----------



## deadie

I was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 after hearing how my "new to me" McIntosh MC2205 amp drove the HD800s.  So, I picked up a few more vintage pieces and an older DAC to cobble together a "poor man's MHA100".   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 MC2505 50wpc amp
 C31V preamp
 Transporter DAC
  
 This nearly 40-year old amp drives the HD800s with musical thump, full weight, rich vocals, and gobs of power.  Just awesome synergy.  These pieces are sitting on my desk, also driving a pair of Paradigm Studio 20 v3.  Go vintage!


----------



## BobG55

harrinj said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Got my Marantz 2238B today.  Two reasons why I bought this particular model : one, like most Marantz receivers it has the "mono" option & I have the Beatles Mono Box Set; two, it's the same receiver I bought back in '79, which as I stated in an earlier post, was my first "quality" amplifier/stereo system I ever bought & I remember liking it.
> ...


 
 Thanks harinnj.


lugbug1 said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Got my Marantz 2238B today.  Two reasons why I bought this particular model : one, like most Marantz receivers it has the "mono" option & I have the Beatles Mono Box Set; two, it's the same receiver I bought back in '79, which as I stated in an earlier post, was my first "quality" amplifier/stereo system I ever bought & I remember liking it.
> ...


 
 Thanks Lugbug.  The "stereo" sound is warmer than the Fisher (as you correctly pointed out in an earlier post) & the soundstage isn't as wide but even with a warmer sound the detail is descent enough. I haven't really listened to it enough in stereo yet to give it a fair assessment. Even though it's not as important, aesthetically it's quite impressive, especially at night time (good God I used to talk about my wife like that …. no doubt about it I'm getting old).  I almost forgot : the "mono" button sticks when it's pushed or doesn't stay pushed "in" the first time; it's one or the other & I emailed the seller about it.  I pointed out that in his description of the amp this problem was not pointed out.  He replied asking me for a compensatory suggestion, so, I asked for a $50 reimbursement which he sent to my PayPal account earlier today.


----------



## BobG55

deadie said:


> I was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Very very nice. Congratulations deadie.  It may not be a "MHA 100" but it still looks impressive.  One day I've got to get me a McIntosh. (sounds like a pretty good slogan).


----------



## deadie

bobg55 said:


> Very very nice. Congratulations deadie.  It may not be a "MHA 100" but it still looks impressive.  One day I've got to get me a McIntosh. (sounds like a pretty good slogan).


 
  
 Thanks man.  Yep, I've heard the MHA100, and it's an impressive beast.  Very strong and musical.  I would love to own it, but not at its full retail price.  
  
 As such, after getting the "McSound" in my head, I spent many weeks watching the bay and 'gon for vintage gear, and came away with this combo at 28% of the MHA100's going rate.  I'd say... 80%+ the performance (primarily black / noise level, not power) for a third of the price.  Not too shabby.


----------



## BobG55

deadie said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Very very nice. Congratulations deadie.  It may not be a "MHA 100" but it still looks impressive.  One day I've got to get me a McIntosh. (sounds like a pretty good slogan).
> ...


 
 28% of the price for 80% of the performance = sweet deal


----------



## harrinj

Here is a 2238B that popped up here today. fantastic price (rolls eyes) LOL


----------



## Oregonian

Harrinj, our buddy Doug has a McIntosh for sale for............$1985. Didn't even see the model but it has a "new tube". 

Wow...........


----------



## harrinj

Nice. Did he finally sell that 2325 or is it still there?


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Nice. Did he finally sell that 2325 or is it still there?




Not sure as I don't pay attention to the Marantz units in his shop but he had a Marantz on that center island for $895 and another next to the front counter for $695 next to a Pioneer SX-1080 which was $575. 

I think that center island one has been there for months..........


----------



## harrinj

harrinj said:


> Here is a 2238B that popped up here today. fantastic price (rolls eyes) LOL


 
 Must have forgot to put the link in http://medford.craigslist.org/ele/4627071298.html seller must be living in la-la land but if someone will buy it then the more power to him.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Not sure as I don't pay attention to the Marantz units in his shop but he had a Marantz on that center island for $895 and another next to the front counter for $695 next to a Pioneer SX-1080 which was $575.
> 
> I think that center island one has been there for months..........


 
 I'm taking one there in a week for repair. Last time I was there, He had a Kenwood KA-8300 for $400 I wish I had gotten. The center island one has been that 2325 for at least from the later half of last year. He wanted $999 for it. Nobody seems interested at that price... I don't blame them.


----------



## LugBug1

deadie said:


> I was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's one great set up you've got there seriously! I'd give my right bolloc kidney for one of those slinky Macs. 
 with regards to vintage dacs - If ever you come across an old Acam Black Box (the first model) snap it up and thank me later 
  


bobg55 said:


> Thanks Lugbug.  The "stereo" sound is warmer than the Fisher (as you correctly pointed out in an earlier post) & the soundstage isn't as wide but even with a warmer sound the detail is descent enough. I haven't really listened to it enough in stereo yet to give it a fair assessment. Even though it's not as important, aesthetically it's quite impressive, especially at night time (good God I used to talk about my wife like that …. no doubt about it I'm getting old).  I almost forgot : the "mono" button sticks when it's pushed or doesn't stay pushed "in" the first time; it's one or the other & I emailed the seller about it.  I pointed out that in his description of the amp this problem was not pointed out.  He replied asking me for a compensatory suggestion, so, I asked for a $50 reimbursement which he sent to my PayPal account earlier today.


 
 Hey 'shy bairns get nowt' as they say where I come from. Also, It's an important button for what you are using the amp for so I would get some switch cleaner (deoxit) in there and hopefully it should loosen it up a bit. While you are in there spray all the posts n' switches


----------



## deadie

lugbug1 said:


> That's one great set up you've got there seriously! I'd give my right bolloc kidney for one of those slinky Macs.
> with regards to vintage dacs - If ever you come across an old Acam Black Box (the first model) snap it up and thank me later


 
  
 Thanks man!  And some interesting reading on that Arcam Black Box...


----------



## moodyrn

deadie said:


> I was
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Very nice setup. The 2505 is a really nice sounding amp. I too also own the 2205. It was really an eye opener compared to all of the other totl vintage gear I've owned. I loved it so much I gave it the full treatment(replaced many diodes, resistors, transistors and all electrolytics and a new glass faceplate). The end result was a sonic transformation that was on another league from the already superb stock form. It and the 500c are two pieces that I will never part with. My 2205 is the perfect blend of musicality and technicality in one package.


----------



## deadie

moodyrn said:


> Very nice setup. The 2505 is a really nice sounding amp. I too also own the 2205. It was really an eye opener compared to all of the other totl vintage gear I've owned. I loved it so much I gave it the full treatment(replaced many diodes, resistors, transistors and all electrolytics and a new glass faceplate). The end result was a sonic transformation that was on another league from the already superb stock form. It and the 500c are two pieces that I will never part with. My 2205 is the perfect blend of musicality and technicality in one package.


 
  
 Thanks!  Great quote: "perfect blend of musicality and technicality in one package"  
  
 That's really the essence of these vintage Macs -- all the power you will ever need, balanced with long listening session musicality and richness.  I do wonder how their newer tube preamps / integrates perform, headphone wise, but the sky high cost of entry will likely keep me hunting the 'bay for quality vintage gear.


----------



## moodyrn

I would suggest you get the 2205 restored down the line if you don't want to spend the several thousands on a modern Mac. It has reached legend status over at audio karma. It has all of the features of modern macs(both power guard and auto transformers). And many say a fully restored one is on par with modern Mac amps. I can't say for sure if that's true, but restoring mine did bring it up a few notches in performance.


----------



## deadie

Definitely.  Although I see myself picking up an end-game-ish (for my needs) amp like a MC302, or dual mono MC275s sometime in the future, I plan to fully upgrade both my vintage amps.  
  
 Both came from single owner homes, and were just sold b/c the 70 year old dudes were simplifying their lives.  I feel a responsibility to keep the amps singing, pass them to down my 8-year old son one day, after college!   For that environment, he can take my blastin' Behringer PA speaker I use for backyard movies.


----------



## buson160man

speakerbox said:


> I think the total was right around 100 caps replaced.


 

 Wow that is a lot of caps. Just curious how long did it take you to replace the caps approximately? I have fairly recently bought a concept receiver that was apparently recapped. I say that because the sound of my concept receiver has improved appreciably in the two months that I have had it . I recently upgraded the two output fuses that are accessible from the back panel . I replaced them with isoclean fuses I had originally intended to replace the stock fuses with hi-fi tuning supreme fuses but they do not make any fuses with the 7 amp rating that the receiver requires. So the only ones that I saw that had seven amp rated fuses were isoclean fuses . Since I have replaced the fuses I am noticing a much cleaner quieter sound that is more transparent and with more of a sense of dimensionality .I feel it was worth the investment and a very easy tweak .


----------



## SpeakerBox

buson160man said:


> Wow that is a lot of caps. Just curious how long did it take you to replace the caps approximately? I have fairly recently bought a concept receiver that was apparently recapped. I say that because the sound of my concept receiver has improved appreciably in the two months that I have had it . I recently upgraded the two output fuses that are accessible from the back panel . I replaced them with isoclean fuses I had originally intended to replace the stock fuses with hi-fi tuning supreme fuses but they do not make any fuses with the 7 amp rating that the receiver requires. So the only ones that I saw that had seven amp rated fuses were isoclean fuses . Since I have replaced the fuses I am noticing a much cleaner quieter sound that is more transparent and with more of a sense of dimensionality .I feel it was worth the investment and a very easy tweak .


 
  
 Since this was a unit I was keeping for myself I could afford to take my time with it.  I bought and installed the parts a board at a time over a period of about six months.  If I was able to work on it continuously I could have finished it in less than a week, probably.
  
 I do still have to replace the filter caps but don't have the ~$200 on hand to do that right now - but sometime in the next year that will be done.  Don't know if I will do any other tweaks - though am considering putting in an IEC inlet for power so that I can use any power cord I want.


----------



## monoethylene

perfect match ..


----------



## SpeakerBox

Bet your KSA100 sounds pretty good!  Always wished I could get my hands on a KSA250.


----------



## monoethylene

absolutely


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice!


----------



## buson160man

speakerbox said:


> Since this was a unit I was keeping for myself I could afford to take my time with it.  I bought and installed the parts a board at a time over a period of about six months.  If I was able to work on it continuously I could have finished it in less than a week, probably.
> 
> I do still have to replace the filter caps but don't have the ~$200 on hand to do that right now - but sometime in the next year that will be done.  Don't know if I will do any other tweaks - though am considering putting in an IEC inlet for power so that I can use any power cord I want.


 

  Changing the captivated power cord to a iec is no doubt a great way to improve the units sonic signature with  a power cord of your preference. But does it affect the price of the unit in any negative fashion . I know some people are purists and would not want to modify the unit in this fashion to keep it original . Of course if you are keeping the unit that is no problem . I do not know what your preferred power cord brand is but may I be so bold . I have had good experience with the cable pro reverie power cable  while it is not inexpensive at around 300 dollars for a eight foot length .I can attest to the excellence of this power cord . I have two much more expensive power cables one the kubala sosna emotion and the other the outrageously expensive nordost brahma and the cable pro bested both of them in most of my set ups .
    Being technically gifted that is surely a nice thing when you want to keep restoration costs to a minimum. I know that a hundred dollars is a lot to pay for a couple of fuses but at least in my case the return in increased performance was well worth the expense .
   I used two isoclean fuses in my receiver to very good effect .


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have actually seen the IEC addition raise the value of a receiver on Ebay, but these things vary.  In my case I don't care as I will keep the unit and probably use a cheap upgrade cord like the like a Iron Lung Jellyfish / Volex 17604.
  
 Someone here at HF did an extensive review which I found interesting:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/219202/its-done-power-cord-shoot-out-22-power-cords-reviewed


----------



## jodgey4

LOL the power cord debate, just grab the proper gauge off Monoprice as a start. They're well built and it's hard to get reliable cheap power cords anywhere else.


----------



## LugBug1

Niiiiiiice!!


----------



## Silent One

monoethylene said:


> perfect match ..


 
 What a pix! 





 
 - Former Sansui G-22000 owner


----------



## Oregonian

monoethylene said:


> perfect match ..




Only the most powerful amp on this thread.........

Lovely!!!!


----------



## Silent One

Think ima go fire up wotts' G-22000 and get some tonight!


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Think ima go fire up wotts' G-22000 and get some tonight!


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


>


 
 Just got home, time to flick the ignition switch and light the pilot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 - The pilot is lit!
 - Receiver now out of protection mode
 - Twin turbo mono fans at full thrust
 - Bypassing warm-up period in favor of low speed operation..._for now. _





 
  
  
 A pix to represent the _overnight session_:


----------



## harrinj

Geeeeeez what is with this month... I've tried to get a few things on craigslist recently and no luck at all. a Pioneer SX-636 for $50 (No response) the Kenwood KA-9100 (no response) a Marantz 2252B (no reply after the initial first response a week before) a Pioneer SX-850 (no response) but it looks like they will only sell it at $600 with a crap TT, cassette player and a rolling cabinet I don't want... The pioneer speakers they have look decent though. I emailed if they'd just sell the receiver or maybe both the receiver and speakers but doubt I'll get a reply. I emailed about a Pioneer SX-1250 I offered $400 (wants $800) but I was kinda told off just a bit ago in their reply... $800 in his dreams... Eugh.


----------



## Silent One

Getting told off goes against the spirit of this wonderful hobby. If the seller is not careful, he/she will soon learn iron can and does rust. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Sometimes, karma accelerates this process.
  
 Still some summer left, harrinj, hope you score an impressive find!


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> Geeeeeez what is with this month... I've tried to get a few things on craigslist recently and no luck at all. a Pioneer SX-636 for $50 (No response) the Kenwood KA-9100 (no response) a Marantz 2252B (no reply after the initial first response a week before) a Pioneer SX-850 (no response) but it looks like they will only sell it at $600 with a crap TT, cassette player and a rolling cabinet I don't want... The pioneer speakers they have look decent though. I emailed if they'd just sell the receiver or maybe both the receiver and speakers but doubt I'll get a reply. I emailed about a Pioneer SX-1250 I offered $400 (wants $800) but I was kinda told off just a bit ago in their reply... $800 in his dreams... Eugh.


 
  
 If the 1250 is restored it is probably worth $800 (have seen them go for over $1000) - I paid $335 for mine unrestored.


----------



## wotts

Mine was $600 unrestored and now it's sitting on the sideline needing some TLC.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Still a reasonable price.  Once restored they are irreplaceable - IMHO.


----------



## Skylab

$800 is definitely high for an unrestored one, but the price of the SX-1250 has been going up and if someone has a near mint unit it's possible they could get close to $800 for it ... On eBay. For a local sale, very doubtful.


----------



## moodyrn

After owning a couple of sx1280s, I had a bad itch for a 1250 to compare. It was an itch I just had to scratch. I found one locally for 500.00 that had cosmetic and functional issues. So it only required about 8.00 in parts(recapping protection board, couple diodes and transistors on one of the amp boards). The faceplate had a deep nick though small it was very noticeable because of how deep it was. So I had decided from the very beginning this wasn't going to be a keeper(I've evolved to the point of my vintage gear being mint cosmetically). But I just had to scratch that 1250 itch. I think it's one vintage receiver every vintage lover should try once.
  
 The wood case had quiet a few deep scratches and some chips around the edges. I knew I would be taking a chance of not recouping my money on ebay given the cosmetic issues. But it ended up cleaning up nicely considering. Here's a couple of pics
  
.
  

  

 Although repaired, I definitely wouldn't called this restored. But I was fortunate enough to clear around 625.00 after shipping, ebay and paypal fees. So I guess all of the work I put in it was worth 125.00 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I wish I had the before pics. The top edge of the faceplate really was horrible. I sanded it with a 225 grit 3m sanding block to sand through all of the scratches, afterwards I used 600 grit sand paper to get the finish fine and finished it with applying brasso to some steel wool to give it a mirror finish.
  
 Now on to the sound. This unrestored 1250 flat out beat the restored 1280 I had. The sound was just slightly warmer, but the sound stage was just huge. It has better transparency, better grip on bass, and the mids were just buttery smooth. It aslo took the edge when it came to resolution and micro details. The noise floor is also lower. Where my w3000 hissed and humed loudly(even with the restored one), they hissed only a little with the 1250. In all honestly, this is a non issue. That can be easily fixed by swapping in some higher ohm resistors. But the lower treble etch which the 1280 had(the restored one to a much lesser degree) is completely gone. Now they both still sound very similar and the differences aren't drastic. But they are still there. This can be why the 1250 are starting to fetch near 1280 type money. Maybe all of the threads of 1280 vs 1250 are being more noticed. And in most(if not all) most seem to prefer the 1250, and now I'm one of them.
  
 The 1280 still wins when it comes to looks imo. But I enjoyed the 1250 so much, I could really see myself owning it one day if one cosmetically mint fell in my lap at a great price. But I'm not going to search for one because as great as it is, it still couldn't beat out any of my mcintosh amps or the 500c. It's close to the 6200, albeit not as warm. But the 6200 beats it handily when it comes to musicality, and organic richness while the 1250 just narrowly beat it out when it comes to technicalities.
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Oh, and the internal pic shown was before I recapped the protection board. I took those after I did the cosmetic work.


----------



## moodyrn

Oh, and I wouldn't pay 800.00 locally for an unrestored one. Now if it was absolutely mint, and "one"(had to edit and change that from I lol)  had the skills to do a complete restore which would only require around 100-150.00 in parts(most of that would be for the 4 main filter caps), then maybe. But at least with ebay, you have buyer protection. Locally it's as is.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> Oh, and I wouldn't pay 800.00 locally for an unrestored one. Now if it was absolutely mint, and I had the skills to do a complete restore which would only require around 100-150.00 in parts(most of that would be for the 4 main filter caps), then maybe. But at least with ebay, you have buyer protection. Locally it's as is.


 
  
 Yes, definitely too much to pay $800 for an unrestored one - maybe even in mint condition this is too much.  There is one near me on CL for $800 - been there for several weeks.  Doubt he will get that price for it.
  
 I noticed that removing all the tantalum caps made a huge difference in the sound of mine (harshness is gone).  Plus when replacing standard electrolytics I tried to use audio grade Nichicon wherever possible.  A little more expensive - but the sonic rewards have made it worth it.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I'm a big nichicon guy. Even over more expensive electrolytics like the premium elnas. Terry Dewick uses them in pretty much every application on every type of solid state amp. The the 1280 I had that he restored was full of nichicons. Many like panasonics in the power supply because of their esr rating, but over time, I've come to prefer nichicons there as well, whether it be np muse, fg, or my favorite, kz series. I even like their non audio  grade high voltage series. Even those sound as good as panisonic fm's. But of course it's just a preference thing.


----------



## Terja

For sale in my local craiglist - for $25. It's just a tuner but I just couldn't help but admire the aesthetics of this piece. This definitely belongs to that other French thread where a guy was posting all these wonderful beautiful looking pieces from the vintage era. Don't have the link just now - but I remember that it's definitely not a thread for the weak of heart.


----------



## moodyrn

That's a really nice looking tuner. Just another example of vintage goodness. I wonder if it performs as good as it looks. But for 25.00, for me that would be a no brainer to find out.


----------



## harrinj

I highly doubt its been restored. I think he looked it up and saw dollor signs and thinks he has a goldmine without taking into the fact that it will need to be recapped and lights replaced and cleaned up. He thinks its worth big bucks and thats all that matters. He can sit on it for a long time then lmao 

http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/4586824840.html


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm utterly ignorant about vintage receivers/amps...  and even I know you're dropping a bunch into that just to get it back up to good working order.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, a few here did the same thing. I tried to point out the difference of buying restored vs non restored, and buying off ebay with buyer protection vs as is. And also the difference of buying with no issues vs buying having to replace lights, deoxit, cosmetically flawed etc. Every time they took it as an insult and smarted off at me, and every time said gear stayed on cl many many months with being relisted, and ended up dropping the price below what I originally offered before it was finally sold or pulled. Some even had the nerve to send me an email willing to sale at my original offer, but of course by then I didn't want it anymore. So that seller will soon learn.


----------



## Saoshyant

I'm just lucky the only vintage piece I've bought was refurbished, and I feel I got a good price.  I felt even better about buying it off ebay after chatting to the seller for a little bit on the phone.  Plus it sure is pretty.


----------



## komhst




----------



## komhst




----------



## Oregonian

Sweet.....................


----------



## Silent One

Kenny...in da house!


----------



## moodyrn

beautiful!!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, that's a beautiful Kenwood. Always loved the look of that one!


----------



## jgreen16

Yes, a gorgeous Kenwood for sure!


----------



## jgreen16

Oh, and I love your avatar of the dog Oregonian. Reminds me of our dog.


----------



## Oregonian

Did it in honor of today being National Dog Day......she's my buddy, a 8 1/2 year old purebred Golden. 

Just the best dog I've had and I've been a dog lover and owner for 40+ years.


----------



## jgreen16

She's beautiful, and my daughter reminded me as well at dinner tonight that it is National Dog Day. Our dog is a Lab mix that we got at a shelter when he was around 10 weeks old. That was in February of 2006, so our dogs are similar in age.
  
 I cherish every day that I have the privilege of spending with him.


----------



## jgreen16




----------



## roadcykler

harrinj said:


> Geeeeeez what is with this month... I've tried to get a few things on craigslist recently and no luck at all. a Pioneer SX-636 for $50 (No response) the Kenwood KA-9100 (no response) a Marantz 2252B (no reply after the initial first response a week before) a Pioneer SX-850 (no response) but it looks like they will only sell it at $600 with a crap TT, cassette player and a rolling cabinet I don't want... The pioneer speakers they have look decent though. I emailed if they'd just sell the receiver or maybe both the receiver and speakers but doubt I'll get a reply. I emailed about a Pioneer SX-1250 I offered $400 (wants $800) but I was kinda told off just a bit ago in their reply... $800 in his dreams... Eugh.


 


 Regardless of how much you think something is worth, if you offer half of the listed price you're likely to get an unpleasant response. If that happened with something I had listed, I wouldn't waste my time replying because I would take it as a low ball offer. I guess sometimes those people who do that must get a fantastic deal or they wouldn't continue doing it.


----------



## Saoshyant

Or, like in many craigslist posts, haggling occurs.  Starting off with a rather low offer gives some wiggle room, and also lets you know if the seller has any intention of actually haggling.


----------



## jgreen16

Craigslist can be such a crapshoot really. This past spring I had a Pioneer SX-880 in near mint condition listed for $350, but was willing to let it go for somewhat less. I had a guy show up to look at it, and then proceed to tell me he was looking for something a bit smaller after picking it up to see how heavy it was. In almost the same breath, he said he was also considering a SX-1250 he saw listed elsewhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 He also claimed he was running late on meeting someone for a dinner date, but rambled on and on about a variety of topics while randomly cranking the volume up to ear-bleeding levels to see what the receiver "was capable of". He finally left, and said he'd let me know the next day what he decided. I told my wife that I'd never hear a thing from him, and I was correct.


----------



## claybum

roadcykler said:


> Regardless of how much you think something is worth, if you offer half of the listed price you're likely to get an unpleasant response. If that happened with something I had listed, I wouldn't waste my time replying because I would take it as a low ball offer. I guess sometimes those people who do that must get a fantastic deal or they wouldn't continue doing it.


 
  
 This is what I was thinking.


----------



## Silent One

List price and market price don't always bear resemblance. People will list with a cushion for haggling and maybe some other feel good reasons having little to do with the market. And sometimes the market undervalues assets. 
  
 Just as our fellow member expressed it was ridiculous to offer only half the list price, the seller's list price may in fact be the one that's ridiculous in some cases. In my view, just because a seller reacts emotionally to a low offer, they needn't dump on potential buyers. Sellers and buyers alike should keep moving..._next._
  
 This really can be a wonderful hobby.


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


>




Adorable.


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> I highly doubt its been restored. I think he looked it up and saw dollor signs and thinks he has a goldmine without taking into the fact that it will need to be recapped and lights replaced and cleaned up. He thinks its worth big bucks and thats all that matters. He can sit on it for a long time then lmao
> 
> http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/4586824840.html


 
  
 Another overpriced one here: http://rochester.craigslist.org/ele/4586534139.html
  
 In fact I think he just raised the price $50!


----------



## harrinj

Well holy moly! If any of you are in the Seattle area ya may wanna snatch this hell of a deal up on this Kenwood Model Eleven. I wish I was there... What a tease its in Portland craigslist in results from areas nearby  haha 

http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/ele/4635573658.html


----------



## jgreen16

The latest addition.


----------



## AudioArby

NICE!


----------



## Silent One

@ jgreen16




 - Team Sansui


----------



## Oregonian

I love those Sansui integrated amps.  Almost bought one a few months ago.


----------



## jgreen16

silent one said:


> @ jgreen16
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, definitely Team Sansui 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I sold a G-5500 last fall, and have been looking for this model integrated for awhile. It is all original, so I suppose at some point I'll need to do an overhaul. Looks to be worth doing though, as this one is a pretty clean example!


----------



## jgreen16

A little interior porn!


----------



## .Sup

Looks brand new!


----------



## moodyrn

Nice! I've always loved the looks of sansui integrateds internals. They look more like modern high ends amps than vintage imo.


----------



## ssrock64

jgreen16 said:


> A little interior porn!


 
 Nice! That's about as clean as they come.


----------



## buson160man

The unit looks like it is in pristine condition. It looks to be a dual mono design . Congratulations looks like you have a winner.


----------



## buson160man

saoshyant said:


> I'm just lucky the only vintage piece I've bought was refurbished, and I feel I got a good price.  I felt even better about buying it off ebay after chatting to the seller for a little bit on the phone.  Plus it sure is pretty.


 

  I bought my piece locally from  shops that sold vintage used receivers. I had bought a couple of items at the shop before I bought my receiver at so I had some experience with the store . But this is the first time that I have bought a used piece from them .I was lucky that the receiver had been refurbished . I do  not know how far refurbishing has restored the receiver but it is working pretty well at this point.. The store I bought it from did not do the refurbishing on the receiver so I do not know how extensively the refurbishment was .But I am happy so far .
   I may consider a parts upgrade at some point in the future maybe not a full upgrade but maybe where it matters the most .


----------



## harrinj

Picked this one up yesterday on Craigslist, It was posted 8 hours before I saw it. I cleaned it all up last night, put in white LED's (they sure are better than the blue LED's) and checked everything no cold solder joints or bad caps besides one that looks suspect I will have to replace at a later time. This and my two 4270's are the best sounding ones in my collection with this one being the best. The seller was so cool and had a lot of receivers. He may sell his SX-1050 that's just mint so I'm hoping he gives me first dibs 

 the seller didn't get my emails at all, They were not even in a junk or spam folder. I am glad he actually had a number listed instead of just email like most of these people... It would explain the KA-9100 guy ignoring me and the others they just didn't get them for some reason :/


----------



## Silent One

@ last harrinj!


----------



## LugBug1

moodyrn said:


> After owning a couple of sx1280s, I had a bad itch for a 1250 to compare. It was an itch I just had to scratch. I found one locally for 500.00 that had cosmetic and functional issues. So it only required about 8.00 in parts(recapping protection board, couple diodes and transistors on one of the amp boards). The faceplate had a deep nick though small it was very noticeable because of how deep it was. So I had decided from the very beginning this wasn't going to be a keeper(I've evolved to the point of my vintage gear being mint cosmetically). But I just had to scratch that 1250 itch. I think it's one vintage receiver every vintage lover should try once.
> 
> The wood case had quiet a few deep scratches and some chips around the edges. I knew I would be taking a chance of not recouping my money on ebay given the cosmetic issues. But it ended up cleaning up nicely considering. Here's a couple of pics
> 
> ...


 
 Just catching up on this thread. Always a treat to read about a Moody restoration! Great stuff.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks.


----------



## Silent One

Honestly, in days past, I thought about shipping one of my vintage lovelies to you for resto!


----------



## harrinj

silent one said:


> @ last harrinj!


 
 It's neat to have another with a wood case. May also pick up a Pioneer SX-939 next week too.


----------



## PhoenixG

I don't know if anyone is located in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago, but I'm not. Anyways, I noticed a receiver for sale there that I have been trying to find for over a year. It even has the walnut case for Pete's sake haha! Problem - it's on craigslist and the guy might not be up for shipping. If anyone here from that area can lend an assist by literally picking it up and taking it to a UPS store, please send me a message.


----------



## FunyunBreath

So I made my first leap into the world of vintage receivers a few days ago. I picked up a NAD 7020 on craigslist and I'm just floored by how good the headphone out sounds with my HD650s. I haven't even hooked any speakers up to it yet because its been getting more listening time than my Bottlehead Crack haha.

The background is so black and the overall sound signature is shockingly close to the crack, with an even better low end. Super pleased with the buy, now I'm looking at desktop monitors to hook up to it.


----------



## jgreen16

funyunbreath said:


> Super pleased with the buy, now I'm looking at desktop monitors to hook up to it.


 
  
 The Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers are pretty well regarded, and won't break the bank. They can often be found on sale for around $80-90.


----------



## .Sup

funyunbreath said:


> So I made my first leap into the world of vintage receivers a few days ago. I picked up a NAD 7020 on craigslist and I'm just floored by how good the headphone out sounds with my HD650s. I haven't even hooked any speakers up to it yet because its been getting more listening time than my Bottlehead Crack haha.
> 
> The background is so black and the overall sound signature is shockingly close to the crack, with an even better low end. Super pleased with the buy, now I'm looking at desktop monitors to hook up to it.


Ha! Yes black and better low end than the Crack and its getting more usage than the Crack - exactly my situation! I daily thank Lug Bugz in my head for convincing me to get one through his high opinion on vintage NAD amps in this thread. 

Gratz on the purchase! How much did you shell for it?


----------



## BobG55

moodyrn said:


> After owning a couple of sx1280s, I had a bad itch for a 1250 to compare. It was an itch I just had to scratch. I found one locally for 500.00 that had cosmetic and functional issues. So it only required about 8.00 in parts(recapping protection board, couple diodes and transistors on one of the amp boards). The faceplate had a deep nick though small it was very noticeable because of how deep it was. So I had decided from the very beginning this wasn't going to be a keeper(I've evolved to the point of my vintage gear being mint cosmetically). But I just had to scratch that 1250 itch. I think it's one vintage receiver every vintage lover should try once.
> 
> The wood case had quiet a few deep scratches and some chips around the edges. I knew I would be taking a chance of not recouping my money on ebay given the cosmetic issues. But it ended up cleaning up nicely considering. Here's a couple of pics
> 
> ...


 
 Good ol' moodyrn, what would this thread be without your expertise.  Beautiful job.  I think I speak for a lot of us on this thread when I say this : you've probably earned yourself an honorary doctorate in the Vintage Amplifier field.  Dr. Moodyrn …. sounds pretty good.


----------



## LugBug1

Hey guys I'm pleased you're enjoying the NAD sound


----------



## moodyrn

bobg55 said:


> Good ol' moodyrn, what would this thread be without your expertise.  Beautiful job.  I think I speak for a lot of us on this thread when I say this : you've probably earned yourself an honorary doctorate in the Vintage Amplifier field.  Dr. Moodyrn …. sounds pretty good.




Haha, thanks. But in all honesty, there are quiet a few on this thread who knows a lot more than I do. I consider myself still a newbe compared to some here. That's one one the things I love most about this thread. Just so much knowledge. We might not have the superstars that Ak have, but I actually prefer it here. Ak is so massive, there are threads upon threads covering each brand. We all can discuss vintage gear in general, whether is a budget sx450 or something like a g22000/sx1980.


Oh, and was it someone here who scooped up that marantz 2500 on eBay for around 750.00? I'm still kicking myself for missing out on that one.


----------



## BobG55

Error


----------



## BobG55

moodyrn said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Good ol' moodyrn, what would this thread be without your expertise.  Beautiful job.  I think I speak for a lot of us on this thread when I say this : you've probably earned yourself an honorary doctorate in the Vintage Amplifier field.  Dr. Moodyrn …. sounds pretty good.
> ...


----------



## FunyunBreath

jgreen16 said:


> The Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers are pretty well regarded, and won't break the bank. They can often be found on sale for around $80-90.


 
 Cool thanks for the tip! There's also some Centrance Masterclass 2504 speakers on sale for $179 that I was considering, they seem to have pretty good reviews as well.
  


.sup said:


> Ha! Yes black and better low end than the Crack and its getting more usage than the Crack - exactly my situation! I daily thank Lug Bugz in my head for convincing me to get one through his high opinion on vintage NAD amps in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


lugbug1 said:


> Hey guys I'm pleased you're enjoying the NAD sound


 
  
 Thanks! Yeah it makes for an incredibly solid headphone amp. I picked it up from a guy on craigslist for $75. Everything seems to work well and the exterior is immaculate, there's like 2 scratches on it haha. Was it a good deal? It seemed like average retail for them was around $100-$150.
  
 One question for you NAD guys. As I've been listening to it I've noticed that after it warms up about 5 min or so it tends to develop a slight channel imbalance. Things that should be centered are very slightly skewed to the left. I went through and cleaned all the pots/switches with Deoxit and re-balanced the DC offset as per the service manual. I didn't check the idle current yet. Any tips on things that might fix it?


----------



## .Sup

Maybe try the Low Level button.


----------



## ssrock64

moodyrn said:


> Haha, thanks. But in all honesty, there are quiet a few on this thread who knows a lot more than I do. I consider myself still a newbe compared to some here. That's one one the things I love most about this thread. Just so much knowledge. We might not have the superstars that Ak have, but I actually prefer it here. Ak is so massive, there are threads upon threads covering each brand. We all can discuss vintage gear in general, whether is a budget sx450 or something like a g22000/sx1980.


 
 That's exactly why I almost never go over to AK. I much prefer a reasonably-paced thread covering the general topic of vintage receivers to the massive brand- or model-specific threads over at AK.


----------



## LugBug1

funyunbreath said:


> Cool thanks for the tip! There's also some Centrance Masterclass 2504 speakers on sale for $179 that I was considering, they seem to have pretty good reviews as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yup thats defo a bargain buddy. Regarding the channel imbalance, 95% of the time this is due to dirty controls but if you've already cleaned them... I would clean them again. Any of the pots/switches could be the cuprite so never assume its only the balance or volume. Also make sure you clean the headphone out as well, gently with a cotton bud or a fine art paint brush can be useful.
  
 When you hear the channel imbalance, try all of the buttons and controls and see if this affects anything as you may be able to narrow it down this way. But as far a failing caps go it doesn't sound like this to me, as the sound wouldn't be as good as you describe. A dry solder joint would most likely kill the sound all together not just drop it slightly.
  
 Remember you can't clean these old machines enough - oxides can kill audio!


----------



## magiccabbage

Didn't know where else to ask about this. What do ye guys think? Ever heard of it? 
  
http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/accuphase-e-303-x/4138947


----------



## SpeakerBox

magiccabbage said:


> Didn't know where else to ask about this. What do ye guys think? Ever heard of it?
> 
> http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/accuphase-e-303-x/4138947


 
  
 In general, Accuphase is very highly regarded.  While I can't speak to the value of this particular piece - in the high end world this is one of the top Japanese brands.


----------



## FunyunBreath

lugbug1 said:


> Yup thats defo a bargain buddy. Regarding the channel imbalance, 95% of the time this is due to dirty controls but if you've already cleaned them... I would clean them again. Any of the pots/switches could be the cuprite so never assume its only the balance or volume. Also make sure you clean the headphone out as well, gently with a cotton bud or a fine art paint brush can be useful.
> 
> When you hear the channel imbalance, try all of the buttons and controls and see if this affects anything as you may be able to narrow it down this way. But as far a failing caps go it doesn't sound like this to me, as the sound wouldn't be as good as you describe. A dry solder joint would most likely kill the sound all together not just drop it slightly.
> 
> Remember you can't clean these old machines enough - oxides can kill audio!


 
  
 Awesome, thanks for the tips! I think that the culprit is the volume pot, as the channels are balanced perfectly at lower volumes, but at higher volumes things start to shift left. So far I've cleaned it about 3 times with dexoit, is there another solution to try or does the pot just need replaced?


----------



## buson160man

magiccabbage said:


> Didn't know where else to ask about this. What do ye guys think? Ever heard of it?
> 
> http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/accuphase-e-303-x/4138947


 

 This looks to be a niece piece of gear . I am not familiar with the e 303 but I did hear one of their integrated amps a few years back . This one had I believe 180 watts per channel and it was a honey . I thought it gave some of the stores higher offerings a run for the money . But the price on that amp went from around 7 to over 10 thousand  a few years later .
    Of course the 303 came out back in the late seventies .


----------



## joehalo




----------



## jgreen16

Sweet!!!!


----------



## wotts

Looking sharp joehalo!


----------



## Silent One

@ joehalo
 Looking good indeed! The stands may be bowing in the middle from weight. Though,
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's not like they're that high off the ground.


----------



## moodyrn

Well, I'll also chime in with a one word adjective.....nice!!!


----------



## harrinj

Found a 2220B at an auction house that needed some extreme TLC. It was filthy, it was rusted and it's also missing all four of its feet, I'll have to buy some on ebay. Spent three hours cleaning it up, Got all the rust off the RCA jacks and the back, cleaned up the insides (lots of dust and spider webs and rust) It looks like it was wet for awhile... Got new LED's in and I wanted to see if Printer paper would make the LED's a bit darker, took the old diffuser paper out that had turned ugly brown/yellow and put in the printer paper and got a great result! Not too bright and not too dark. The main lights I put the white LED's in and the meter got a spare blue LED I had and it looks very cool. For some reason some moron seemed to have marked it with a sharpie in various places on the face. I had a hell of a time getting that off and besides one mark left that is mainly under the Marantz logo that I didn't want to scrub too hard in case some of the Marantz came off but I got the other marks off. I don't know why someone would take a sharpie and do that... It's nothing intelligent to the marks either it's just as if someone did it just for the hell of it... That's almost as obnoxious as finding one that someone had engraved their SSN or DL number right on the face! One of my 4270's has an OR Drivers license number on the face. I've seen a pioneer equalizer once that had a SSN # marked on it's face.

 The place I got it from said he had about 15 more Marantz receivers in the back and some Fisher/Pioneer etc in the back but he would not tell me the model numbers. This was the first decent thing I have seen there besides three Onkyo separates he wanted too much for (about $150 each O_O) and they sat there for maybe 2 (or more before I saw them) years but they were gone today so this stuff must not be put out often. I had to rescue this one and give it some TLC  having 2 2220B's is fine. I'd never sell it just like the others. I'll take them to the grave with me haha 

 There is still the Sharpie mark under the Marantz 'a' but got the marker marks off the right hand side and all the dirt off the face. The blue LED in the meter looks too bright in the picture but it looks just right in person.


----------



## SpeakerBox

There is something very satisfying about bringing one of these old classics back from the brink.  Well done!


----------



## LugBug1

Yup great work harrinj, another vintage life saved! Looking cool as well.


----------



## Oregonian

@Skylab................weren't you looking for this?
  
 Pioneer SA-9800 amp
  
 http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4649058233.html


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Found a 2220B at an auction house that needed some extreme TLC. It was filthy, it was rusted and it's also missing all four of its feet, I'll have to buy some on ebay. Spent three hours cleaning it up, Got all the rust off the RCA jacks and the back, cleaned up the insides (lots of dust and spider webs and rust) It looks like it was wet for awhile... Got new LED's in and I wanted to see if Printer paper would make the LED's a bit darker, took the old diffuser paper out that had turned ugly brown/yellow and put in the printer paper and got a great result! Not too bright and not too dark. The main lights I put the white LED's in and the meter got a spare blue LED I had and it looks very cool. For some reason some moron seemed to have marked it with a sharpie in various places on the face. I had a hell of a time getting that off and besides one mark left that is mainly under the Marantz logo that I didn't want to scrub too hard in case some of the Marantz came off but I got the other marks off. I don't know why someone would take a sharpie and do that... It's nothing intelligent to the marks either it's just as if someone did it just for the hell of it... That's almost as obnoxious as finding one that someone had engraved their SSN or DL number right on the face! One of my 4270's has an OR Drivers license number on the face. I've seen a pioneer equalizer once that had a SSN # marked on it's face.
> 
> The place I got it from said he had about 15 more Marantz receivers in the back and some Fisher/Pioneer etc in the back but he would not tell me the model numbers. This was the first decent thing I have seen there besides three Onkyo separates he wanted too much for (about $150 each O_O) and they sat there for maybe 2 (or more before I saw them) years but they were gone today so this stuff must not be put out often. I had to rescue this one and give it some TLC  having 2 2220B's is fine. I'd never sell it just like the others. I'll take them to the grave with me haha
> 
> There is still the Sharpie mark under the Marantz 'a' but got the marker marks off the right hand side and all the dirt off the face. The blue LED in the meter looks too bright in the picture but it looks just right in person.


 
  
 Mr Marantz...............here ya go.   $99! for a 2245! 
  
 http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/4644242444.html


----------



## BobG55

harrinj said:


> Found a 2220B at an auction house that needed some extreme TLC. It was filthy, it was rusted and it's also missing all four of its feet, I'll have to buy some on ebay. Spent three hours cleaning it up, Got all the rust off the RCA jacks and the back, cleaned up the insides (lots of dust and spider webs and rust) It looks like it was wet for awhile... Got new LED's in and I wanted to see if Printer paper would make the LED's a bit darker, took the old diffuser paper out that had turned ugly brown/yellow and put in the printer paper and got a great result! Not too bright and not too dark. The main lights I put the white LED's in and the meter got a spare blue LED I had and it looks very cool. For some reason some moron seemed to have marked it with a sharpie in various places on the face. I had a hell of a time getting that off and besides one mark left that is mainly under the Marantz logo that I didn't want to scrub too hard in case some of the Marantz came off but I got the other marks off. I don't know why someone would take a sharpie and do that... It's nothing intelligent to the marks either it's just as if someone did it just for the hell of it... That's almost as obnoxious as finding one that someone had engraved their SSN or DL number right on the face! One of my 4270's has an OR Drivers license number on the face. I've seen a pioneer equalizer once that had a SSN # marked on it's face.
> 
> The place I got it from said he had about 15 more Marantz receivers in the back and some Fisher/Pioneer etc in the back but he would not tell me the model numbers. This was the first decent thing I have seen there besides three Onkyo separates he wanted too much for (about $150 each O_O) and they sat there for maybe 2 (or more before I saw them) years but they were gone today so this stuff must not be put out often. I had to rescue this one and give it some TLC  having 2 2220B's is fine. I'd never sell it just like the others. I'll take them to the grave with me haha
> 
> There is still the Sharpie mark under the Marantz 'a' but got the marker marks off the right hand side and all the dirt off the face. The blue LED in the meter looks too bright in the picture but it looks just right in person.


 
 What a beaut !  Congratulations harrinj, another gem in your expanding vintage family.  Gotta love it


----------



## claybum

congrats harrinj...you have quite a nice collection
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  
 WOW, that Portland craigslist listing is unbelievable. $800 for an unrestored SA9800 claiming they go for up to $2500 on ebay......Dreamland


----------



## Skylab

Funny thing is that very unit either is or was on eBay. Also overpriced. Thanks for thinking of me...but I would want either a fully restored unit, or to find one locally.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> Funny thing is that very unit either is or was on eBay. Also overpriced. Thanks for thinking of me...but I would want either a fully restored unit, or to find one locally.




You're welcome. Thought it was high but I didn't know how rare they are. I've got a SA-9900 which I paid $350 for which I rarely if ever see and it's a bit higher power at 110 WPC.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> Mr Marantz...............here ya go.   $99! for a 2245!
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/4644242444.html


 
 I saw that one not long after it was posted. I am surprised that IA in Aloha now hasn't gotten it. There are 2 Marantz 2225's at Audio specialties. is there something special about the 2225 that commands a $500 price any one know? That was just NUTS! He's still got that 2325 for $895 I think it was now and from the $999 originally, He must just want it for in his store. Nobody seems to be foolish enough to buy it haha it has to be over a year now that it has been there.


----------



## harrinj

bobg55 said:


> What a beaut !  Congratulations harrinj, another gem in your expanding vintage family.  Gotta love it


 
 Thank you! I should had taken a before pic too, especially of the back. This thing was really filthy. Does anyone know a good way to get that ink spot off that would not take the logo off?


----------



## BobG55

harrinj said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > What a beaut !  Congratulations harrinj, another gem in your expanding vintage family.  Gotta love it
> ...


 
 Hi harrinj,  
  
 I searched online and this product was mentioned in several links : http://googone.com/How-to-Remove.aspx
  
 Now wether it would damage the logo or not I don't know.  Hope this works for you.


----------



## wotts

Goo Gone is some strong stuff. Around the logo, I would use a q-tip and scrub lightly. There is a cleaner I use at work called Dykem. It's really nasty ( check the MSDS) but it works wonders taking ink off of aluminum. However, it might take everything else off too. I advise caution.


----------



## LugBug1

I would try some white spirit and a toothbrush, you should be able to lightly scrub without too much contact on the logo. 
  
 Or... you could colour it all in with black pen, then you won't notice it at all!


----------



## BobG55

[COLOR=FF00AA][/COLOR]





lugbug1 said:


> I would try some white spirit and a toothbrush, you should be able to lightly scrub without too much contact on the logo.
> *[COLOR=FF00AA][COLOR=FF00AA][COLOR=FF00AA][COLOR=FF00AA]
> O[COLOR=FF00AA]r... you could colour it all in with black pen, then you won't notice it at all!   [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]*



[/COLOR]

The Bug strikes again


----------



## AudioArby

Vintage prices have gotten out of hand. Most of the receivers now on Ebay are not personally owned anymore. They're estate sale finds that are posted untested for crazy prices. The prices have doubled or tripled in the last 5 years.


----------



## terry parr

audioarby said:


> Vintage prices have gotten out of hand. Most of the receivers now on Ebay are not personally owned anymore. They're estate sale finds that are posted untested for crazy prices. The prices have doubled or tripled in the last 5 years.


 
 yeah.  through online research, people who come across older audio gear are now hip to the idea of the prices that some of these pieces are now fetching.
  
 and quite a few of these re-sellers are not people who truly appreciate these pieces for what they are.  they don't appreciate the sound characteristics or the aesthetics of a vintage piece.  they're just looking to turn a quick buck or two.
  
 i personally blame everyone here on this thread for driving the prices up and making it more difficult for me to score a nice piece of vintage gear at a decent price.
  
 everyone here who owns more than two vintage amps that they've purchased through an online listing owes me an apology.


----------



## Oregonian

I owe you a big one then. I have 9 pieces..........

That said, the prices I've paid are very reasonable. For example, a full rack Spec 1 & 2 system with SG-9500 EQ, CTF-1000 cassette deck with TX-9500 tuner I paid $270. For everything. The most I paid was $400 for an immaculate SX-1050. Point being there are good deals to be had on craigslist, tho everything you've said is true to some extent. eBay is the wrong place to find a "deal" from my experience. My local vintage repair store sells pieces as well and his pricing remains fair.


----------



## kokushu

Mixing vintage technologies with modern tech.  My marantz 1152 dc and yamaha ca 1010 hook up to a bmc puredac.  All of these connect to my only speaker kef ls50.


----------



## terry parr

nice, pristine-looking set-up, *kokushu* mixing old and new.  very "clean" looking.
  
 no, *oregonian*, that previous post of mine was a bit tongue-in-cheek.  you got it, but i wanted to qualify it, since that type of humor sometimes doesn't translate well on a thread posting such as this.
  
 yeah.  if i were serious, you'd have to be one of the ones being the most apologetic!  you, and a few others that i won't name.


----------



## roadcykler

kokushu said:


> Mixing vintage technologies with modern tech.  My marantz 1152 dc and yamaha ca 1010 hook up to a bmc puredac.  All of these connect to my only speaker kef ls50.


 
 That looks like a very nice set-up. I would guess that qualifies as a "near field" listening area.


----------



## CrocCap

that marantz + th900, one of the best combos ive ever heard.  drove the th900's better than many other modern amps ive heard with them, like the hugo for instance.


----------



## parbaked

Put the 1974 Pioneer SA-7100 back in the rotation with an early MHDT DAC and an old DVD player. 

 These SA-7100/8100/9100 amps are very good!


----------



## Destroysall

Parkbaked I have been on the lookout for those amps for awhile. As much as I love my Marantz, I've always loved the Pioneer sound.


----------



## Captain Howdy

Apologies if this post is not quite appropriate to the thread, but I figure y'all will know the answer.
  
 I've been using a 15 year old Onkyo TX-8211 receiver, which I don't suppose qualifies as vintage. If it wasn't BOTL when I bought it, it was close. Recently I bought a pair of HD600 and I want to get the most out of them. To my neophyte's ears they sound pretty good through the Onkyo, but I have nothing to compare them to. Am I correct in assuming that an entry-level HP amp like the Magni or O2 probably won't be a significant improvement over the Onkyo?


----------



## Oregonian

Welcome. I believe your Onkyo will still sound better, with tone controls which the Magni has none. I owned the Magni before I found this thread........no longer own it.


----------



## LugBug1

captain howdy said:


> Apologies if this post is not quite appropriate to the thread, but I figure y'all will know the answer.
> 
> I've been using a 15 year old Onkyo TX-8211 receiver, which I don't suppose qualifies as vintage. If it wasn't BOTL when I bought it, it was close. Recently I bought a pair of HD600 and I want to get the most out of them. To my neophyte's ears they sound pretty good through the Onkyo, but I have nothing to compare them to. Am I correct in assuming that an entry-level HP amp like the Magni or O2 probably won't be a significant improvement over the Onkyo?


 
 The HD600 are 300 ohms so they appreciate a high impedance amp. Your Onkyo will have a much higher impedance value than the very low/high current Magni. This is only one factor of course but a major one imo. My advice would be, if you like the sound out of your Onkyo, maybe keep an eye out for an even better vintage amp  I've owned the Magni and all though it is a great amp in regards to price/performance, it doesn't come close to a decent vintage amp. And you don't need to pay much for a decent vintage amp as long as you know what you are looking for. 
  
 I would start doing your homework on vintage amps first and there is loads of info on this thread.


----------



## Captain Howdy

Thanks Oregonian and LugBug. I have poked around a bit in this thread, but 894 pages is a lot of homework!
  
 One thing I really appreciate about my Onkyo is its infrared remote; does that particular feature post-date the 'vintage' era?


----------



## Oregonian

captain howdy said:


> Thanks Oregonian and LugBug. I have poked around a bit in this thread, but 894 pages is a lot of homework!
> 
> One thing I really appreciate about my Onkyo is its infrared remote; does that particular feature post-date the 'vintage' era?




None of the vintage stuff has remotes. The only downside.

I have a Chase RLC-1 remote my vintage guy found for me on my Spec system that solved it for me. Problem is it's hard to find and not made any longer.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> None of the vintage stuff has remotes. The only downside.
> 
> I have a Chase RLC-1 remote my vintage guy found for me on my Spec system that solved it for me. Problem is it's hard to find and not made any longer.


 
  
 There are remote upgrades that can be purchased for some of the vintage units - but very expensive (>$300).   Have seen them on that popular auction site a few times.


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> There are remote upgrades that can be purchased for some of the vintage units - but very expensive (>$300).   Have seen them on that popular auction site a few times.


 

 Like internal servo drives?  I've seen one Marantz that had a servo driven volume control installed...............uber spendy.
  
 I'd like to know what type/brand you're referencing if you can.  Have a couple other systems (have 8 vintage systems in use) that I'd like to have remote volume capability.


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is called Audiocubics:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Remote-volume-control-will-work-with-Kenwood-KR-8010-Audiocubics-Walnut-/191335794727?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2c8c808827


----------



## Oregonian

By the way, I just found more of the Chase RLC-1 remote control systems for sale on eBay.  I bought one for $175 for my second system.  There are three more available from other sources from $189 - 300. 
  
 I highly recommend this unit.  The only weakness to me anyway to vintage is having no way to adjust volume.  When listening in close quarters via headphones it isn't an issue but for my two main systems they are hooked to speakers and I listen to speakers 50% of the time so having adjustability from my recliner is sweet.


----------



## hojomojo96

Hey all, its been a while since I've posted in the thread, although I've been dutifully lurking since my last appearance. After months of not using my MAC 1900 for fear of damaging the poor thing (overheating problems), I finally found the money to send it in for repairs. I get it back tomorrow and am incredibly excited to have it driving my LCD2's and bs22's again - my Aune T1 and Lepai T amp have done their best but simply can't put out the same quality and power. Thought I'd share the excitement before I burst - my next step will be building a wooden cabinet for it, so I'll be bothering you guys for advice once I get started on that.


----------



## jgreen16

While browsing that popular auction site, I came across a Pioneer SX-1050 that was listed for parts or repair. The description said the receiver powered up okay, and the lights all worked, but there was no sound. The seller had purchased it at an estate sale, and was told it was stored away for many years.
  
 The seller had quite a few pictures, so I went straight to the shot of the rear panel. Sure enough, the jumpers for the pre-out to power amp in were missing. I sent a quick note to suggest that they use a set of RCA cables to make the connection, and then see if there was still no sound. I also told them if that worked, perhaps they could update the listing, and possibly get a higher winning bid. The seller replied _"I don't have time to mess with it, selling as is, thank you."_
  
 A couple of things I 'm wondering now. Was I out of line contacting the seller about this? And, regardless of whether I should have contacted the seller or not, why would you not have the time to check it out, considering it may get you more money? It seems like not much effort would be required.


----------



## PhoenixG

jgreen16 said:


> While browsing that popular auction site, I came across a Pioneer SX-1050 that was listed for parts or repair. The description said the receiver powered up okay, and the lights all worked, but there was no sound. The seller had purchased it at an estate sale, and was told it was stored away for many years.
> 
> The seller had quite a few pictures, so I went straight to the shot of the rear panel. Sure enough, the jumpers for the pre-out to power amp in were missing. I sent a quick note to suggest that they use a set of RCA cables to make the connection, and then see if there was still no sound. I also told them if that worked, perhaps they could update the listing, and possibly get a higher winning bid. The seller replied _"I don't have time to mess with it, selling as is, thank you."_
> 
> A couple of things I 'm wondering now. Was I out of line contacting the seller about this? And, regardless of whether I should have contacted the seller or not, why would you not have the time to check it out, considering it may get you more money? It seems like not much effort would be required.


 
 You did the best you could. Maybe you'll get a good price for it if you really want it. Had the exact same problem with my realistic sta-2000D except all the lights were also out.
  


hojomojo96 said:


> Hey all, its been a while since I've posted in the thread, although I've been dutifully lurking since my last appearance. After months of not using my MAC 1900 for fear of damaging the poor thing (overheating problems), I finally found the money to send it in for repairs. I get it back tomorrow and am incredibly excited to have it driving my LCD2's and bs22's again - my Aune T1 and Lepai T amp have done their best but simply can't put out the same quality and power. Thought I'd share the excitement before I burst - my next step will be building a wooden cabinet for it, so I'll be bothering you guys for advice once I get started on that.


 
 Congrats! Always glad to see a worthy unit come back from the brink of death. I think my 1900 sounds nice, but the FM section (which I use most) let me down a bit. I could watch those blue dials like an oscar winning movie though...


----------



## Captain Howdy

jgreen16 said:


> While browsing that popular auction site, I came across a Pioneer SX-1050 that was listed for parts or repair. The description said the receiver powered up okay, and the lights all worked, but there was no sound. The seller had purchased it at an estate sale, and was told it was stored away for many years.
> 
> The seller had quite a few pictures, so I went straight to the shot of the rear panel. Sure enough, the jumpers for the pre-out to power amp in were missing. I sent a quick note to suggest that they use a set of RCA cables to make the connection, and then see if there was still no sound. I also told them if that worked, perhaps they could update the listing, and possibly get a higher winning bid. The seller replied _"I don't have time to mess with it, selling as is, thank you."_
> 
> A couple of things I 'm wondering now. Was I out of line contacting the seller about this? And, regardless of whether I should have contacted the seller or not, why would you not have the time to check it out, considering it may get you more money? It seems like not much effort would be required.


 
  
 You weren't out of line in contacting him. In this case, I would take him at his word: he doesn't have time to mess with it. He probably has a lot of other merchandise to sell and just doesn't feel it's worth his time to hunt up a set of RCA cables. And if he's like me, he has no idea what "jumpers for the pre-out to power amp" are, and if they're missing, how would I connect a set of RCA cables to them anyway?


----------



## jgreen16

captain howdy said:


> You weren't out of line in contacting him. In this case, I would take him at his word: he doesn't have time to mess with it. He probably has a lot of other merchandise to sell and just doesn't feel it's worth his time to hunt up a set of RCA cables. And if he's like me, he has no idea what "jumpers for the pre-out to power amp" are, and if they're missing, how would I connect a set of RCA cables to them anyway?


 

 I had actually sent him a picture of the back panel of a SX-1050 with the jumpers in place, and circled. It's the only item he currently has listed, and he has feedback in the mid-400's since becoming a member in '03. To each his own I guess. The high bid is currently at $260 with a couple of days left.


----------



## Captain Howdy

jgreen16 said:


> I had actually sent him a picture of the back panel of a SX-1050 with the jumpers in place, and circled. It's the only item he currently has listed, and he has feedback in the mid-400's since becoming a member in '03. To each his own I guess. The high bid is currently at $260 with a couple of days left.


 
  
 Sounds like you did all you could to be helpful. Guess he's just lazy.


----------



## hojomojo96

phoenixg said:


> Congrats! Always glad to see a worthy unit come back from the brink of death. I think my 1900 sounds nice, but the FM section (which I use most) let me down a bit. I could watch those blue dials like an oscar winning movie though...




Thanks! Yeah, I love my 1900, although my opinion isn't much to go off of since its the nicest amp I've had/listened to. I don't really use the tuner myself, since the local stations are of no interest to me. Out of curiousity though, whats wrong with it? The icing on the cake is that the price of the repair wasn't too much so I'm still coming in at well under market value! Hopefully it should keep me content and fend off that little voice telling me to upgrade for a while!


----------



## Oregonian

jgreen16 said:


> I had actually sent him a picture of the back panel of a SX-1050 with the jumpers in place, and circled. It's the only item he currently has listed, and he has feedback in the mid-400's since becoming a member in '03. To each his own I guess. The high bid is currently at $260 with a couple of days left.




Class move on your part giving him the idea. Good job. If you can get it for that bid price of $260 that is a very very good unit. I have one which I paid $400 for and like it almost as much as my Spec system. In fact for what I'm using my 1050 for it's perfect as it's for my television system in the family room. Which now will have a remote control when I get my Chase RLC-1 unit Tuesday.


----------



## PhoenixG

hojomojo96 said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I love my 1900, although my opinion isn't much to go off of since its the nicest amp I've had/listened to. I don't really use the tuner myself, since the local stations are of no interest to me. Out of curiousity though, whats wrong with it? The icing on the cake is that the price of the repair wasn't too much so I'm still coming in at well under market value! Hopefully it should keep me content and fend off that little voice telling me to upgrade for a while!


 
 The amp sounds pretty nice, but the tuner is kinda kneecapped by a response limited to 20Hz-15kHz compared to the amp's roll-off at 35kHz. That gives a serious audible difference between different sections of the receiver. Also, the noise rejection is only ok, so you get more static and fewer channels than a really good tuner. 
  
 I got the mac 1900 because I wanted it to be a one box solution that sounds just like the mcintosh separates units that I love (moody knows what I mean). To that effect, I had mixed results. It has the superlative build quality I have come to expect, but after listening and doing some more research, I figured out why it didn't quite meet my (really high, basically stratospheric) hopes. I think they used the front end from the mr-73 tuner, c-24 preamp board, and mc 250 outputs. Those are all good parts, but a few generations yet from their best work. I was comparing it to the MR-78 - C-32 - mc2125. It was never going to win, except in compactness. To be fair, even the MR-78 isn't as good as it can be without a few mods. It rolls off way too low, but I digress.
  
 It might sound like I'm saying it wasn't good. I'm not. I really liked how it sounded (except on fm), but there are a few better receivers out there (and a few in my house haha). I wanted it to have the cajones to put out the deep bass (10-30 hz), but it wasn't quite viscerally there. I wanted the fm to have a higher roll-off. The human ear goes to 20kHz, so anything under that really is noticeable. Great tuners sample at 39kHz and you can really tell when you hear it.
  
 For what I paid for mine, I'm happy with how it sounds. I'm glad you like yours. McIntosh is a great brand that is hard to go wrong with in the vintage realm. I think every vintage McIntosh is always worth fixing. I can't really say that for any other brand.
  
 ###
  
 Just as a quick addition, I've only found two receivers ever that sound as good as a McIntosh separates system, but they are power limited and have their own drawbacks. I hope my sx-1980 will join their ranks after it comes back from its restoration.


----------



## hojomojo96

phoenixg said:


> The amp sounds pretty nice, but the tuner is kinda kneecapped by a response limited to 20Hz-15kHz compared to the amp's roll-off at 35kHz. That gives a serious audible difference between different sections of the receiver. Also, the noise rejection is only ok, so you get more static and fewer channels than a really good tuner.
> 
> I got the mac 1900 because I wanted it to be a one box solution that sounds just like the mcintosh separates units that I love (moody knows what I mean). To that effect, I had mixed results. It has the superlative build quality I have come to expect, but after listening and doing some more research, I figured out why it didn't quite meet my (really high, basically stratospheric) hopes. I think they used the front end from the mr-73 tuner, c-24 preamp board, and mc 250 outputs. Those are all good parts, but a few generations yet from their best work. I was comparing it to the MR-78 - C-32 - mc2125. It was never going to win, except in compactness. To be fair, even the MR-78 isn't as good as it can be without a few mods. It rolls off way too low, but I digress.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I'm sure there are better receivers out there - in fact, the man who runs the repair shop I went to let me listen to a Sansui G-9000 today, and it was quite an experience. Every time I take another step in my audio journey I'm amazed that there is, in fact, more clarity and better sound to be had. I'll stop upgrading once the audible difference is gone, I suppose. For now though, I'm happy to report that I finally went and picked up my MAC 1900 and its working (and sounding) great! Here are some pictures:


----------



## Oregonian

Sweet!  Congrats on bringing home the baby...................


----------



## BobG55

>


 
 When it comes to a McIntosh product it's like a beautiful woman, a Cadillac, etc.  Aesthetically appealing to the eye with a warm and pleasant feeling.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats on the 1900. It looks really, really nice. And a nice sounding receiver as well. But just like Phoenix said, it's really not representative of the vintage mac sound, but still quiet good nonetheless and a real looker too. The only serious vintage receiver mac made was the 4100 which is basically a ma6200 with a tuner(can't remember which tuner it shares it's bones with though). But they can also fetch up to and over 1000.00 as well.


----------



## moodyrn

hojomojo96 said:


> Yeah, I'm sure there are better receivers out there - *in fact, the man who runs the repair shop I went to let me listen to a Sansui G-9000 today, and it was quite an experience*. Every time I take another step in my audio journey I'm amazed that there is, in fact, more clarity and better sound to be had. I'll stop upgrading once the audible difference is gone, I suppose. For now though, I'm happy to report that I finally went and picked up my MAC 1900 and its working (and sounding) great! Here are some pictures:


 
 Ah yes. the G-9000/901. Out of all of the totl solid state receivers I've owned or listened to, it's without a doubt the best one out of all of them. It's the one piece of gear I owned that I regret selling. It was before the days I was comfortable with doing a full restore myself. Now, I get sick whenever I see someone mention one. That's one wonderful sounding receiver. And the one receiver I plan to own again one day if I ever get lucky enough to score one mint for a decent price.


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> Ah yes. the G-9000/901. Out of all of the totl solid state receivers I've owned or listened to, it's without a doubt the best one out of all of them. It's the one piece of gear I owned that I regret selling. It was before the days I was comfortable with doing a full restore myself. Now, I get sick whenever I see someone mention one. That's one wonderful sounding receiver. And the one receiver I plan to own again one day if I ever get lucky enough to score one mint for a decent price.


 
 Moody's absolutely right. When I said I've only heard two receivers ever as good as a McIntosh separates system, the G-9000 was one, and the Sony str-6120 was the other. Sometime you just can't keep them all. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Fortunately, since the Sony is (relatively) compact, it's allowed to stick around. If only the cornwalls were smaller haha.


----------



## Captain Howdy

Anyone care to assign dates to the "vintage" era?


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> moodyrn said:
> 
> 
> > Ah yes. the G-9000/901. Out of all of the totl solid state receivers I've owned or listened to, it's without a doubt the best one out of all of them. It's the one piece of gear I owned that I regret selling. It was before the days I was comfortable with doing a full restore myself. Now, I get sick whenever I see someone mention one. That's one wonderful sounding receiver. And the one receiver I plan to own again one day if I ever get lucky enough to score one mint for a decent price.
> ...


 
 To this day, I've yet to hear speakers out of my former Sansui G-22000 before selling it. It had always served headphones in my listening room and now I'm left 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




wondering. At least the receiver's next stop there'll be plenty of speaker action.
  
 @ moodyrn
 Have you ever listened to the G-33000/22000 before?


----------



## ssrock64

captain howdy said:


> Anyone care to assign dates to the "vintage" era?


 

 We keep the definition pretty loose in this thread, but most of the stuff that pops up in here is from about '65 to the early Eighties. There have definitely been older and newer pieces posted and discussed at one time or another, though.


----------



## Skylab

I think that's pretty accurate. There is no hard and fast rule, but at least as we sit here today, anything from the 90's (or beyond) is not vintage. Aside from that...open season!

Man, there is a NICE, fully restored Yamaha CR-2020 on the Bay...must...resist...don't...need...


----------



## moodyrn

silent one said:


> To this day, I've yet to hear speakers out of my former Sansui G-22000 before selling it. It had always served headphones in my listening room and now I'm left  wondering. At least the receiver's next stop there'll be plenty of speaker action.
> 
> @ moodyrn
> Have you ever listened to the G-33000/22000 before?





Unfortunately no. And given how awesome the g9000 sounds, those two must really be killer.


@Phoenix

I'm really surprised you left the sx1980 off the list of receivers on par with Mac separates. Or is it the sx1980 is so good it's ahead of mcintosh and not on par?


----------



## Saoshyant

Mostly off subject, but I still can't believe my sx-737 can pair with an ie800 and not have issues, only IEM I've tried that didn't complain.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> I think that's pretty accurate. There is no hard and fast rule, but at least as we sit here today, anything from the 90's (or beyond) is not vintage. Aside from that...open season!
> 
> Man, there is a NICE, fully restored Yamaha CR-2020 on the Bay...must...resist...don't...need...




Yeah, what came out after the very early 80s is what led to the rise of high end brands. There may be a few exceptions but for the most part the classic vintage era ended after 1980. 

And Skylab that yammy is absolutely stunning. The price isn't bad considering its not only fully restored including an led upgrade, but cosmetically mint as well. I've seen those go for four figures unrestored.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> I think that's pretty accurate. There is no hard and fast rule, but at least as we sit here today, anything from the 90's (or beyond) is not vintage. Aside from that...open season!
> 
> Man, there is a NICE, fully restored Yamaha CR-2020 on the Bay...must...resist...don't...need...


 

 That the one for $1475?  I've been intrigued by their look and the variable loudness for years....................my local guy had one of those for $350 a while ago.  Not all restored but would have been nice to try out.


----------



## Skylab

Yup that's the one...expensive, yes, but a rare chance to buy one that wouldn't need anything except a nice system to plop it in 

Still, it would mean selling one of my fully restored 1980's, and I just can't bring myself to do it.


----------



## kokushu

I am surprise you like the yamaha cr 2020 skylab.  I always thought you like a warmer sounding amp like the marantz or pioneer.  For me the yamaha during that era have a more flat sound but a little bit more resolving.  I like that kind of sound and that is why I have the yamaha ca 1010.  Which also explain why I like the HD 800 a lot too.


----------



## Skylab

Honestly I've never heard a Yammy from that era...which is part of the allure. I've owned Marantz, Sansui, and Sony vintage receivers, all of which were good sounding, but so far I have preferred the Pioneers, yes. If the Yammy is less warm than the Pioneer, then yes, you're right, I probably wouldn't like it. I consider the Pioneer vintage sound to be pretty neutral, especially the SX-x50 and x80 receiver lines.


----------



## kokushu

Yeah I have the marantz 1152dc and it sound a little bit warmer than the yamaha.  That is the reason why its in the storage cabinet and not my main speaker amp anymore.  Its still a great amp and I might have to pull it out and listen to it every now and then.  I still hadn't listen to sansui or sony vintage either so I don't know much about them.  If I have to place the general sound of the amp I heard I probably but marantz in the warm, pioneers in the middle, and yamaha at the other end.


----------



## kokushu

Another thing I notice is maybe a lot of people don't like yamaha or something because for the same comparable product the marantz always goes for a higher price than the yamaha.  That goes for the pioneer too.  Both marantz and pioneer always goes for really high price on ebay.  If you could live with yamaha sound you could get such a great deal.


----------



## Skylab

Well in that case the Yammy probably isn't for me. I had decided not to get it anyway...just can't part with either of my SX-1980's


----------



## kokushu

Either way that is still a beautiful restore yamaha cr 2020.  I would've try to get it if I didn't have the ca 1010 already.  Hope someone get a good deal on it and enjoy a good old vintage amp.  My yamaha look beat up compare to that one.  Cabinet look really good and the front plate look extremely pristine for a vintage amp.  I wonder if he would take my marantz 1152dc plus cash for it lol.  Doubt it thought.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed it is I agree! Whoever does get it will undoubtedly get a very nice piece of kit.


----------



## hojomojo96

Thanks for the warm response guys! To be completely honest I wouldn't know anything about the "classic McIntosh sound" considering my experience, but maybe I'll get to experience it later on (probably after college and whatnot). Till then, I'll be happy with what I've got, and keep an eye out for good deals. You guys know so much about all this equipment, I'll be floored to ever know half as much! Thanks again!


----------



## PhoenixG

moodyrn said:


> @Phoenix
> 
> I'm really surprised you left the sx1980 off the list of receivers on par with Mac separates. Or is it the sx1980 is so good it's ahead of mcintosh and not on par?


 
 Well Moody, you did pick up on something intentional. I think when it gets back from the restoration, the 1980 will be every bit as good as a separates system, maybe even better than most (I like to think any) of them. For example, I think the sx-1980 tuner sounds better than an unmodified MR-78, the 1980 has more features that any of the competitors, and dang if it isn't popular as anything out there. However, the great separates system to which it was compared is still better than my unrestored 1980.
  
 The unrestored 1980 was just a shade less fantastic tonally than the G-9000. The sansui was a micron sweeter with ever so slightly more presence compared to the cooler 1980. The sony str-6120 has very similar to the g-9000 sound with similar deep bass. They were extremely close. I remember posting a detailed comparison probably 6 months ago where I was really split since I could only keep one. The sound was so close that I had to think bigger picture to make the choice. The sansui has blue dials (which is a big point in my book haha) and convenient speaker taps, but it also has a few parts that are replaceable, but unobtanium to do perfectly. The 1980 has a few more cool buttons and features, but is not blue. It was also in a bit better shape. Lastly, I think the restore will resolve all the issues I had and provide me the best version possible of the sx-1980.
 In the end, the g-9000 went to a good home and ended up financing the full restore on the 1980 by mattsd. I think the 1980 is just the one piece I would want to pass down if I could only choose one.
  
 Also, let's be fair here, about any good McIntosh separates system costs more than a 1980 or g-9000, so the fact that there is a comparison is highly flattering.


----------



## PhoenixG

hojomojo96 said:


> Thanks for the warm response guys! To be completely honest I wouldn't know anything about the "classic McIntosh sound" considering my experience, but maybe I'll get to experience it later on (probably after college and whatnot). Till then, I'll be happy with what I've got, and keep an eye out for good deals. You guys know so much about all this equipment, I'll be floored to ever know half as much! Thanks again!


 
 Don't be so hard on yourself! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I remember recommending the mac 1900 to you when you were looking for a good stereo in your budget. You managed to find a GREAT stereo for a price people would swoon at. Are there better ones out there? Almost always. But you're sitting on K2 looking at Everest and saying "dang, I could have done better."
 You've managed to bypass years of searching, climbing, and trading up that people do by starting really high up. Everything else is incremental at this point.


----------



## kokushu

skylab said:


> Well in that case the Yammy probably isn't for me. I had decided not to get it anyway...just can't part with either of my SX-1980's


 
 I would love to own a sx 1980 one of this day.


----------



## Silent One

Blue moon rising...
  
 Spring 2013, I took the rare opportunity to purchase a Sansui G-22000. And reluctantly sold it summer 2014. Even rarer was its repurchase, which took place earlier Monday on the last day of summer..._what a summer._




 Silent One
 Team Sansui (Retired Active)


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Blue moon rising...
> 
> Spring 2013, I took the rare opportunity to purchase a Sansui G-22000. And reluctantly sold it summer 2014. Even rarer was its repurchase, which took place earlier Monday on the last day of summer..._what a summer._
> 
> ...




You bought it back from wotts????

Congrats buddy!


----------



## wotts

Also, on that note, if anyone has a G-22000 they are looking to move....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  In reality, I'll probably go for the MHA-100 now.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> Well Moody, you did pick up on something intentional. I think when it gets back from the restoration, the 1980 will be every bit as good as a separates system, maybe even better than most (I like to think any) of them.


 
  
 I know the SX1250 is probably not quite as good as a 1980, but my restored 1250 is pretty good.  Stunning sound really.  That said when compared to my Jeff Rowland amps it still lacks that nth degree of refinement and detail that the Rowlands provide.  There is always something better I guess.  They say that Jeff's newest solid state amps are indistinguishable from tubes.  Too pricey for me though.


----------



## Skylab

My Cary SLP-05 preamp and Sunfire Signature 600 power amp are a level of refinement above my SX-1980, no doubt. But I actually listen to my vintage Pioneer system more often than my "modern" uber-fi rig. Partly it's because the vintage rig is in the loft style attic of my house and I can crank music up there any time without regard to what the rest of my family may be doing, but part of it is I just like the sound of the vintage rig that much. It may not be quite as audiophile approved, but it sure makes music well


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> silent one said:
> 
> 
> > Blue moon rising...
> ...


 
 Yes, thanks. A fine head-fier, that wotts! 
  
  


wotts said:


> Also, on that note, if anyone has a G-22000 they are looking to move....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 They say Autumn is a season of harvest...let's see what the Big 'G' returns! Thanks kindly, for making it possible. Can you imagine the "**** ***" filled reply I would have gotten potentially from a buyer I didn't know?!





 
  


skylab said:


> My Cary SLP-05 preamp and Sunfire Signature 600 power amp are a level of refinement above my SX-1980, no doubt. But I actually listen to my vintage Pioneer system more often than my "modern" uber-fi rig. Partly it's because the vintage rig is in the loft style attic of my house and I can crank music up there any time without regard to what the rest of my family may be doing, but part of it is I just like the sound of the vintage rig that much. It may not be quite as audiophile approved, but it sure makes music well


 
 Your example reminds me a lot about food in similar fashion. Most of the time, my soul is stirred by food from down home (NOLA) - family and the proverbial hole-in-the-wall joints.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> My Cary SLP-05 preamp and Sunfire Signature 600 power amp are a level of refinement above my SX-1980, no doubt. But I actually listen to my vintage Pioneer system more often than my "modern" uber-fi rig. Partly it's because the vintage rig is in the loft style attic of my house and I can crank music up there any time without regard to what the rest of my family may be doing, but part of it is I just like the sound of the vintage rig that much. It may not be quite as audiophile approved, but it sure makes music well


 
  
 Yes, I know what you mean.  I am listening to the 1250 more and more for exactly the reasons you have listed.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks for those impressions Phoenix. Very interesting. I too like both the sx1280 and especially the sx1250(also really liked the sx1010). I do hope to one day own a sx1980. But I will say the pioneer monsters did everything well. They have a sound signature warm enough to pair well with neutral to bright sounding cans, and just neutral enough to pair well with darker sounding cans. The same goes for speakers to. There's no secret why they are universally loved by so many people. Unlike marantz where some people swear by them(understandably so) and some don't care for them at all with the exception of the few neutral sounding marantz out there(2330B, 2385, 2500etc).
  
 With that said, I've also had a love-not so love relationship with them because I've always found they each lacked a little refinement to others I've listened to, primarily all of the mcintosh gear I've had, and even some sansui's like the au9500 and g9000. One day, I might get another and just completely gut them all the way down to replacing all of the diodes with shottky's and all onsemi power resistors along with a full recapping.because I'm absolutely in love with the design and build quality of those. And based on that, I think they should be on par with mcintosh. But maybe there's some special magic going on with those and some of the sansui's. Like the some of the sansui's having what's said to be the best trannies ever made etc. But I'm still very fond of the pioneer line.
  
  
@Silent One
 Congrats on getting your sansui back. Wotts you're really a stand up guy for doing that. I know it must have been hard lol.


----------



## wotts

moodyrn said:


> @Silent One
> Congrats on getting your sansui back. Wotts you're really a stand up guy for doing that. I know it must have been hard lol.


 
  
  
 Thank you for the kind words! It works out for both of us I believe.
  
 With all of the 1250 talk, I really want to get mine going. It seems to have a problem in one channel. I should see about talking to one of the cats who do re-cap/restoration. It really is in minty condition.


----------



## Silent One

@ moodyrn
  
 Thanks. I'm intrigued by the DC Pure Power design from Input through Output.
  
  
 @ wotts
  
 Soon, I may have to confirm a rumor of a party at your house...calling you from the driveway.


----------



## Skylab

wotts said:


> Thank you for the kind words! It works out for both of us I believe.
> 
> With all of the 1250 talk, I really want to get mine going. It seems to have a problem in one channel. I should see about talking to one of the cats who do re-cap/restoration. It really is in minty condition.




I'm not sure what Mattsd's current wait list is like, but I don't think he is that far from you, Tim.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> @ moodyrn
> 
> Thanks. I'm intrigued by the DC Pure Power design from Input through Output.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Standing invitation! It's not a castle, but there will be eats and bubbly.
  


skylab said:


> I'm not sure what Mattsd's current wait list is like, but I don't think he is that far from you, Tim.


 
  
  
 I'll check with him. I believe it is about two hours from my place. That will really save on shipping. I guess I could get the 1980 and 1250 done at the same time. It will get me listening to my Marantz.


----------



## Skylab

It saves not just the cost of shipping but more importantly the risk. That's very key with these big old receivers. 

Matt did a fantastic job on my 1980...the thing sounds SOOOO much better than it did stock, and it's nice knowing it's now ultra-reliable for years to come.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, I'm now a big fan of getting this gear restored. Once I was of the camp of only replacing components that were bad. That changed with a completely restored 9090db I once had. That thing surpassed every totl piece I've owned up to that point....even gear that was much more highly regarded. The only two pieces of gear that were better stock were the g9000 and au9500. So since then all of my gear now has to be restored, and as a result, the 9090db is long gone(still a great receiver though). I will say, you haven't heard your gear until you get it restored imo.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> *It saves not just the cost of shipping but more importantly the risk. That's very key with these big old receivers.*
> 
> Matt did a fantastic job on my 1980...the thing sounds SOOOO much better than it did stock, and it's nice knowing it's now ultra-reliable for years to come.


 
 That is what I was afraid of with SilentOne shipping that amazing Sansui............................shipping a beast like that knowing what our FedEx/UPS guys do with packages had me cringing.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> Standing invitation! It's not a castle, but there will be eats and bubbly.


 




  
  


skylab said:


> It saves not just the cost of shipping but more importantly the risk. That's very key with these big old receivers.
> 
> Matt did a fantastic job on my 1980...the thing sounds SOOOO much better than it did stock, and it's nice knowing it's now ultra-reliable for years to come.


 
 Does Matt do Sansui?
  


moodyrn said:


> Yeah, I'm now a big fan of getting this gear restored. Once I was of the camp of only replacing components that were bad. That changed with a completely restored 9090db I once had. That thing surpassed every totl piece I've owned up to that point....even gear that was much more highly regarded. The only two pieces of gear that were better stock were the g9000 and au9500. So since then all of my gear now has to be restored, and as a result, the 9090db is long gone(still a great receiver though). I will say, you haven't heard your gear until you get it restored imo.


 
 Who would be the "Go to" for full resto with Sansui?
  
  


oregonian said:


> That is what I was afraid of with SilentOne shipping that amazing Sansui............................shipping a beast like that knowing what our FedEx/UPS guys do with packages had me cringing.


 
 Once our discussion turned to shipping I began to feel a bit out of sorts; full of anxiety.


----------



## moodyrn

Given Matt's great work on the pioneers, I don'[t see no reason why he can't do an equally great job on your sansui. But the funny thing is, over at ak, you have a pioneer specialist, a kenwood speciallist, and a marantz specialist. I don't remember encounting a sansui specialist. But I'm sure either one of those would be great choices. The only problem is, all of the superstars over there are always overbooked. Terry Dewick(who's also the resident mcintosh specialist lol) does great work on pretty much anything. But he's in TN, so that might not be a viable option for you.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> I will say, you haven't heard your gear until you get it restored imo.




Amen to that!!! The difference isn't subtle and it's all good. 




oregonian said:


> That is what I was afraid of with SilentOne shipping that amazing Sansui............................shipping a beast like that knowing what our FedEx/UPS guys do with packages had me cringing.




In my case I did have to do it, but I have an original SX-1980 box, and I put that inside another box surrounded by peanuts. The outer box was in bad shape each way, but the SX-1980 box and its precious cargo were both fine. But it's nerve-racking!



silent one said:


> Does Matt do Sansui?




I'm not sure - one would have to ask him.


----------



## Silent One

moodyrn said:


> Given Matt's great work on the pioneers, I don'[t see no reason why he can't do an equally great job on your sansui. But the funny thing is, over at ak, you have a pioneer specialist, a kenwood speciallist, and a marantz specialist. I don't remember encounting a sansui specialist. But I'm sure either one of those would be great choices. The only problem is, all of the superstars over there are always overbooked. Terry Dewick(who's also the resident mcintosh specialist lol) does great work on pretty much anything. But he's in TN, so that might not be a viable option for you.


 
 Fellow vintage lover and member 'sluker' highly recommended a local cat around the L.A. area but he's overbooked. I'm guessing Matt and Terry might have better availability...I can always ask all three for current status. Price would be important, too. 
  
 Over at AK, I noticed a few fellow members performed their own surgeries with the bigger Sansui's. I'm not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 that adventurous with my vintage lovely. Perhaps, you could furnish me with contact info. If either Matt or Terry did a good job of packing, I'd take the shot!


----------



## moodyrn

Terry has a website he share's with Tom Manley here http://www.mcintoshaudio.com/ . You probably would have to get Matt's info from Skylab. As for packaging, I can't speak for either one. My only direct experience with Terry was a sx1280 I bought that he did for MattTCG. I think Matt drove both ways for delivery and pickup. As for prices I can say that Terry's at 50.00/hr really can't be beat considering how good his reputation is. That's as cheap as anyone I've heard of and cheaper than average. But I'm sure other's over at AK are pretty reasonable as well.


----------



## Skylab

http://mattsvintageaudiorepair.blogspot.com

The full and complete restore on my SX-1980 was about $750, but I had the big main filter caps replaced, and that's $240 just for those four caps.


----------



## Silent One

Thanks y'all...will investigate!


----------



## Silent One

Reconstruction project: audio rack temporarily on the eastern wall. Will move to southern wall in 2 weeks. Lower right, 2 vintage Pioneers awaiting shipping (SX-650; SX-D7000).


----------



## ssrock64

silent one said:


> Reconstruction project: audio rack temporarily on the eastern wall. Will move to southern wall in 2 weeks. Lower right, 2 vintage Pioneers awaiting shipping (SX-650; SX-D7000).


 
 Your cling wrap budget must exceed the GDP of some small nations.


----------



## Silent One

I get excited sometimes...never _wrap_ while listening to music.


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> Reconstruction project: audio rack temporarily on the eastern wall. Will move to southern wall in 2 weeks. Lower right, 2 vintage Pioneers awaiting shipping (SX-650; SX-D7000).


 

  Is that a sansuii g33000 or a g22000 on the top shelf. That unit must be enormous if it is docked. How long have you owned it ?


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> Is that a sansuii g33000 or a g22000 on the top shelf. That unit must be enormous if it is docked. How long have you owned it ?


 
 1978 Sansui G-22000. Purchased around Mar/Apr 2013.


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> http://mattsvintageaudiorepair.blogspot.com
> 
> The full and complete restore on my SX-1980 was about $750, but I had the big main filter caps replaced, and that's $240 just for those four caps.


 
 Matt got back to me today and suggested a rough estimate for the Big 'G' of about $800 including the big main filter caps. Will have Matt firm in mind.


----------



## Skylab

Sweet. Whenever you get to it, it will be well worth the investment, for sure.


----------



## buson160man

There is a technics  big boy monster sa-1000 up for auction on e-bay. Asking price is 5200 usd. This is the first one I have seen up for sale since I have gotten into vintage receivers. I know these are rare.


----------



## harrinj

I'm confused. Do they just pull these prices out of the air? Good grief its a hunk of metal and 40 year old electronics... Sheesh even the guy i can get an absolute mint 1050 from wants less than $500... This fella is nuts!> http://roseburg.craigslist.org/ele/4678062712.html


----------



## roadcykler

buson160man said:


> There is a technics  big boy monster sa-1000 up for auction on e-bay. Asking price is 5200 usd. This is the first one I have seen up for sale since I have gotten into vintage receivers. I know these are rare.


 
 Plus $225 for shipping. I could drive to Sacramento and back for a lot less than that and probably get it faster. Criminy.


----------



## Saoshyant

225 shipping? Is it delivered by Jason Statham?


----------



## Silent One

I received a quotes from FedEx and UPS both appx $330 to ship my G-22000 some 2,000 miles.


----------



## wotts

And that was the store doing the packaging with insurance, yes?


----------



## hojomojo96

Quick question for you guys regarding my setup - although its not receiver related, I figured you guys would be the best place to come for advice.
 I recently came into a JVC 200 CD changer, a xl-mc222bk, along with a bunch of CD's (all of U2, REM, and many others) for free. Since I mainly use open LCD 2's with my setup, and my computer can be quite loud, I'd love to be able to use the CD player into my mac-1900 to have a quiet(er) listening environment. The only catch is, I don't know whether the JVC will degrade sound quality in comparison to FLAC files feeding into my Aune T1. Do any of you have experience or knowledge regarding these CD changers and the quality they put out?


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> And that was the store doing the packaging with insurance, yes?


 
 Yes, so considering the Technics' weight, that $225 doesn't seem ridiculous.


----------



## PhoenixG

Well, that's a complex question. A cd's max bitrate is higher than standard FLAC, but there are higher quality FLAC formats that can be higher than CD's. My own feelings about human ears aside, even the best regular hi-fi amps are only good to ~100kHz, while both FLAC and CD's nearly double that bandwidth, so the odds you can tell the difference on an average track is probably slim. It is possible, that one source might be a different mix on the same song though. That is as likely as anything else.
 Also, I've heard tell of both formats being delivered under their promised resolution, or even upscaled from a lower resolution format, which outputs poop recordings.


----------



## hojomojo96

phoenixg said:


> Well, that's a complex question. A cd's max bitrate is higher than standard FLAC, but there are higher quality FLAC formats that can be higher than CD's. My own feelings about human ears aside, even the best regular hi-fi amps are only good to ~100kHz, while both FLAC and CD's nearly double that bandwidth, so the odds you can tell the difference on an average track is probably slim. It is possible, that one source might be a different mix on the same song though. That is as likely as anything else.
> Also, I've heard tell of both formats being delivered under their promised resolution, or even upscaled from a lower resolution format, which outputs poop recordings.



My question was more on terms of the quality of the DACs in these older CD changers - it doesn't have a digital out, unfortunately. I considered opening it up and trying to hack together a digital out, but I don't have the technical knowhow. Thanks for the insight, however. Since I ripped the FLACs from the CDs, I doubt the mix is much different.


----------



## captouch

hojomojo96 said:


> Quick question for you guys regarding my setup - although its not receiver related, I figured you guys would be the best place to come for advice.
> I recently came into a JVC 200 CD changer, a xl-mc222bk, along with a bunch of CD's (all of U2, REM, and many others) for free. Since I mainly use open LCD 2's with my setup, and my computer can be quite loud, I'd love to be able to use the CD player into my mac-1900 to have a quiet(er) listening environment. The only catch is, I don't know whether the JVC will degrade sound quality in comparison to FLAC files feeding into my Aune T1. Do any of you have experience or knowledge regarding these CD changers and the quality they put out?


 
  
 Others may disagree, but I think differences in DAC's are generally pretty subtle.  If the environment around the computer is loud enough for you to hear it through your LCD 2's and disturb you even subtly, then likely it's washing over any sonic advantages your FLAC/Aune T1 would have over the JVC changer in a quiet environment.  Just test out the JVC with your Mac and LCD 2's and see how it sounds.  Likely, it's just fine.


----------



## buson160man

harrinj said:


> I'm confused. Do they just pull these prices out of the air? Good grief its a hunk of metal and 40 year old electronics... Sheesh even the guy i can get an absolute mint 1050 from wants less than $500... This fella is nuts!> http://roseburg.craigslist.org/ele/4678062712.html


 

 Look at the price of esoteric high end equipment these days. Things are ridiculously priced these days. The high end stuff is unobtainable for the common man these days. But I have to say something about these older high end receivers. At least in the case of my late seventies concept 16.5. I got my recapped receiver recently and now that it is broken in it sounds extremely good.
     So good in fact that it is easily competitive with a lot of the modern high end equipment these days. I use my concept 16.5 exclusively for headphone use(I have no passive speakers because I use active monitors these days). I can not comment about how it sounds on speakers but with headphones especially with my akg 701s(I am constantly amazed  by this studio headphones almost microscopic sonic abilities to honestly reproduce the sound of the source) they have never sounded this good or should I say great.
    The pricing of some of the vintage stuff is based on the availability of the product.. I Imagine that something like say the technics sa-1000 which cost around 1800 in the late seventies was a very limited product. How many did they sell back then maybe a thousand units maybe? So its supply and demand. Look at some wines these days they can ask outrageous prices for some of the rarest and best wines these days.
    Some of these 40 year old products do not necessarily sound inferior to more modern designs. I imagine that the capacitors and resistors and other components made today have been improved over the last 40 years. So when a product is restored using modern parts it is probable that the unit will sound superior to how it sounded with the parts available 40 years ago. Also the transformers made back then had superior iron to a lot of the transformers made today.


----------



## Oregonian

Looking at the back of my SX-1050, and there are the "adapter" inputs and outputs.

What are these connections for? They are RCA formats just like all the other connection on the back.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Looking at the back of my SX-1050, and there are the "adapter" inputs and outputs.
> 
> What are these connections for? They are RCA formats just like all the other connection on the back.


 
  
 May be for quad sound.


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> Looking at the back of my SX-1050, and there are the "adapter" inputs and outputs.
> 
> What are these connections for? They are RCA formats just like all the other connection on the back.


 
  I can find the page in my sx 1980's manual if you give me a day or so. I imagine they're for the same thing on such similar units, and I remember reading about it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

A question for Skylab - wondering what speakers you are currently using with your 1980?  Trying to determine the best match for my 1250.


----------



## jgreen16

oregonian said:


> Looking at the back of my SX-1050, and there are the "adapter" inputs and outputs.
> 
> What are these connections for? They are RCA formats just like all the other connection on the back.


 

 In the manual I have it says these are used _"when employing adapter components, such as a graphic equalizer adapter, RG processor, or Dolby NR adapter"._


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> Looking at the back of my SX-1050, and there are the "adapter" inputs and outputs.
> 
> What are these connections for? They are RCA formats just like all the other connection on the back.




Yes, as JGreen suggested, the most common application back in the day was for use with a graphic EQ. And that's how I have one of my 1980's configured. 

However, it can also be used as another line input. That's what I use it for in my other vintage system. Just be aware that the adapter when used as an input doesn't appear at the tape outputs, so you cannot tape from it. 




speakerbox said:


> A question for Skylab - wondering what speakers you are currently using with your 1980?  Trying to determine the best match for my 1250.




System 1: Pioneer DSS-9
System 2: B&W DM-16

Both are basically "period correct" - early 1980's high end speakers. Hard to say which I prefer. Both sound absolutely ravishing with the 1980  The B&Ws are a tad mellowed as one would expect from that era B&W - they're really good sounding and image very well but they're pretty laid back. The DSS-9's are higher resolution overall and far from bright, but they're not as laid back as the Beamers.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Thanks for the reply, Skylab.  B&W are one of the lines I was thinking of - I like my sound a little bit laid back.  My Advents sound a little to bright with the Pioneer (odd because I never thought of Advents as bright).  It is what it is,


----------



## buson160man

speakerbox said:


> Thanks for the reply, Skylab.  B&W are one of the lines I was thinking of - I like my sound a little bit laid back.  My Advents sound a little to bright with the Pioneer (odd because I never thought of Advents as bright).  It is what it is,


 

 B&Ws offer good performance for the cost. The only line I had experience with was the 600 budget line. They were pretty decent sounding but could be a bit bright on top with the metal dome tweeter . They were also an easy load on the amplifier. So using your receiver should be no problem.


----------



## claybum

I picked up a pair of DCM Time Frame 600 a couple weeks ago. Amazing speaker for the price. I have them hooked up to a Kenwood KA8100 in my living room along with a SVS sub. A very fun listen!!!
  
  
  
  
  


speakerbox said:


> A question for Skylab - wondering what speakers you are currently using with your 1980?  Trying to determine the best match for my 1250.


 
  
 I'm not Skylab....but I can recommend some HPM 1500 to go with your SX1250. Mine sound like they were pretty much made for each other!


----------



## PhoenixG

claybum said:


> I picked up a pair of DCM Time Frame 600 a couple weeks ago. Amazing speaker for the price. I have them hooked up to a Kenwood KA8100 in my living room along with a SVS sub. A very fun listen!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have tried that exact match, sx-1980 with hpm-150's (monocoque version of the hpm 1500's), and can personally say that they are a fantastic match. Smooth, effortless extended bass and highs all the way up. Hard to find and very large though. If you're thinking that kind of money, just buy some klipsch cornwalls. You can find those a lot faster.


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> I have tried that exact match, sx-1980 with hpm-150's (monocoque version of the hpm 1500's), and can personally say that they are a fantastic match. Smooth, effortless extended bass and highs all the way up. Hard to find and very large though. If you're thinking that kind of money, just buy some klipsch cornwalls. You can find those a lot faster.




I'm sure that's a killer match. Never had the privilege of hearing a pair of HPM 150/1500's but I'd sure like to.


----------



## wotts

I'm using some McIntosh XR1051 with my 1980, but I picked up the Pioneer S-1010 from Skylab and they are pretty fantastic as well.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> I can find the page in my sx 1980's manual if you give me a day or so. I imagine they're for the same thing on such similar units, and I remember reading about it.




Let me know what you find please.


----------



## SpeakerBox

All - thanks for all the reply's on Speakers/SX1250.  Lots of valuable info there.  This is a great thread!


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> Let me know what you find please.


 
 Here's the page. Hope it helps!


----------



## Oregonian

Thank you Phoenix.


----------



## kuantings

My Pioneer SA-9800 from 1970
 Usually use it with my vintage Pioneer and Stax gear.
 Great performance and flat/linear character, best amp to pair with 600 ohm or old school electret headphone.


----------



## parbaked

kuantings said:


> My Pioneer SA-9800 from 1970


 
 You need to turn up the volume so we can see those meters!
 BTW your amp is 1980-81...very nice.


----------



## emo72

just got a pioneer sa7500. its working nice. the capacitors have been replaced. the guy that sold it couldnt get it working, so i was messing about with it and put an oscilloscope to try track a fault. couldnt find one, it turned out the the blocking strips for the power amp were in wrong. happy days. i love this thread.


----------



## emo72

Just tried uploading a picture. Hopefully it loads.


----------



## Skylab

Looks good! What Rogers speakers are those?


----------



## emo72

skylab said:


> Looks good! What Rogers speakers are those?


 
 thanks. they are LS4. i wonder how they would hold up against a modern set of speakers. i have around 500 euro to spend and speakers are one thing i would want to buy new, id imagine second hand speakers have a tendency to be trashed.
  
 although i stopped using my MF B1 amp and connected them up to the pioneer and the extra power is giving them a new lease of life. im currently in that nirvana stage enjoying the new sound.


----------



## PhoenixG

emo72 said:


> thanks. they are LS4. i wonder how they would hold up against a modern set of speakers. i have around 500 euro to spend and speakers are one thing i would want to buy new, id imagine second hand speakers have a tendency to be trashed.
> 
> although i stopped using my MF B1 amp and connected them up to the pioneer and the extra power is giving them a new lease of life. im currently in that nirvana stage enjoying the new sound.


 
 While I do like many modern speakers, there are also a great number of good deals to be had on the secondhand market. It might take a while to find the right set in the right condition, but it can be worth it. Of course, you will lack warranties or that some maintenance won't be required, but most used speakers have already been through real world testing and come out well. I have bought all of my favorite speakers used for one reason or another and I don't feel like I had to compromise one inch. I think that in order to find a new speaker that is as good as what I found used, I'd have to quadruple my budget (at a minimum).


----------



## Skylab

Yeah I agree...I'm not familiar with that model of Rogers speaker, but certainly Rogers made some great ones. If you like the way they sound I wouldn't be too quick to replace them...


----------



## emo72

im sticking for a while. just seen this 15 minutes from my house. would anyone offer an opinion
  
 http://www.adverts.ie/home-audio/sansui-210-vintage-amplifier-in-mint-condition/6564083


----------



## ssrock64

If I'm buying used speakers, I always try to go to the seller's house and have a listen in their setup before buying. I don't actually do this to hear what they'll sound like, since everybody's source chain will cause differences in sound, but to see whether the seller's idea of listening is blasting the speakers as loud as possible. That's when I know to stay away.


----------



## joehalo

There is a nice Sansui G-9000 near me. Do you guys think $650 is a bad price? Looking at eBay it seems like a reasonable price.


----------



## PhoenixG

joehalo said:


> There is a nice Sansui G-9000 near me. Do you guys think $650 is a bad price? Looking at eBay it seems like a reasonable price.


 
 That is a fantastic price for a top tier amp.


----------



## joehalo

I talked to the seller. Going to look at it tomorrow! Wish me luck, I've always wanted a big G!!!!


----------



## jgreen16

Yes, if it is in good shape, it is definitely a good price. Good luck, it is a fantastic receiver!


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, that would be an excellent price for one that's working well. I hope it turns out well for you!


----------



## BobG55

joehalo said:


> I talked to the seller. Going to look at it tomorrow! Wish me luck, I've always wanted a big G!!!!


 

 Hope you get it


----------



## Silent One

bobg55 said:


> joehalo said:
> 
> 
> > I talked to the seller. Going to look at it tomorrow! *Wish me luck, I've always wanted a big G!!!!*
> ...


 
 Best to you!




 Sincerely,
  
 Silent One
 Team Sansui


----------



## tombo

Hello, just stumbled upon your post which may be well and truely out of your reality by now. In any case I have left my 331 purring it's warm n' wise waves throughout our home throughout the day many a time whilst at work. Although uber evil for the environment and countless creaturres throughout the galaxy; if I must be absent I know that this mans best friend dreams her doggy dreams in stereophonic bliss. Pardon my waxing lyrical(ish) point is like so many machines from the seventies, with a quick oil change every hundred thousand decibels your Sansui should provide eons of auditory jolliness...es-s.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think tombo is trying to say he approves of the Sansui.


----------



## claybum

Whatever tombo is on...I'd like some.
  
  
  
 Oh yeah, I have a G9000 and it's awesome. fully recommended.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## joehalo

Well, I got it  great shape but it needs a deoxit bath bad! This is going to take a while to clean!


----------



## jgreen16

Congrats! I love the looks of the Sansui receivers.


----------



## Silent One

joehalo said:


> *Well, I got it*  great shape but it needs a deoxit bath bad! This is going to take a while to clean!


 
 Congrats!
  





 "Ain't We Funkin' Now" - Brothers Johnson


----------



## emo72

nice one. if it sounds half as good as it looks you will be doing well. well done mate.


----------



## Silent One

On "31 October" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I'm gonna visit this thread to look at some real candy!


----------



## PhoenixG

joehalo said:


> Well, I got it  great shape but it needs a deoxit bath bad! This is going to take a while to clean!


 
 Taking that beast apart is certainly intimidating, but well worth it. Make sure you absolutely soak the push buttons.


----------



## joehalo

Probably the hardest receiver I've tried to clean so far! All back together and working great!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Stunning!! Congrats on the acuisition. It's one of my all time faves. That should keep you happy for a long time.


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> Taking that beast apart is certainly intimidating, but well worth it. Make sure you absolutely soak the push buttons.


 

  Wow the wiring does look intimidating. This puppy must have a ton of components. It looks to be a project for an experienced refurbishing technician to restore.


----------



## moodyrn

One of the most difficult pieces to get to the pots/switches adequately. It almost requires a complete dismantling to get to them. It could be a bit overwhelming for the inexperienced novice for sure. To  the point where it would require a professional to deoxit properly. That's about the only negative I can say about this wonderful receiver. As much as I love the sx1250, I like this one quiet a bit better.


----------



## komhst

joehalo said:


> Probably the hardest receiver I've tried to clean so far! All back together and working great!!!


 
  
 One of THE BEST receivers ever made!!!!


----------



## Silent One

joehalo said:


> Probably the hardest receiver I've tried to clean so far! All back together and working great!!!


 
 Looking good joehalo! Curiously, what did you use to clean the face?


----------



## joehalo

I use a magic eraser on all my receivers faces, with a little water and dish soap.


----------



## Skylab

Well it sure looks great! And I'm sure it sounds great too! I love seeing these big flagship receivers getting cleaned up and put to good use.


----------



## BGRoberts

Congrats on that big Sansui.
 That's a receiver on my wish list.
 BG


----------



## harrinj

joehalo said:


> Probably the hardest receiver I've tried to clean so far! All back together and working great!!!


 
 Oh! Nice!


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> Wow the wiring does look intimidating. This puppy must have a ton of components. It looks to be a project for an experienced refurbishing technician to restore.


 
 Organisation is key. And plenty of time.


----------



## BillJGW

OK ladies and gents, I've read through the first 100 pages of this thread (and the last few) and I have to admit, I'm both interested in picking something up and a little bleary-eyed.  I'd like to run a few models by your esteemednesses (is that a word?) so you can help me pick one out that will best suit my needs.
  
 I'm going to be powering a pr. of older VMPS bookshelf speakers that are 4 ohm jobbers.  It's just something to have so I don't need to use the crappy TV speakers.  When the time comes, I'd also like to power a pr. of Hifiman orthos off the speakers taps, hopefully HE-5LEs (diligently saving up for these).  I looking for something on the neutral to warmish side but not sloppy warm.  Here's the other thing.  The budget is limited and always will be as I'm on a fixed income.  So no SX-1980s in my future, Skylab.
  
 These are all off of fleabay, can't find *anything* on CL in my area.  That's hat I get for living out in the sticks.  Here goes:
  
 Kenwood KA-7100 integrated, buy at $139, 60 wpc, cleaned, deox'd
  
 Luxman L-480 integrated, bidding open at $136 (for another 15 hours), 70 wpc, original as is
  
 Luxman L-430 integrated, bidding open at $41 (for another 2+ days), 105 wpc, original as is
  
 Yamaha A-1000 integrated, bidding open at $21 (for another 1+ day), 100 wpc, original as is
  
 Yamaha CR-620 receiver, buy at $40, 35 wpc, as is.
  
 My concern with the Yamaha receiver is it may not handle my 4 ohm speakers well.  I did a bunch of searching on the net but couldn't find any info about this.  The other four options definitely can.  Any and all opinions welcome.  And please offer explanations too.  I haven't owned a piece of gear like this for over 35 years; that was a Marantz 2270, my first piece of high-end audio equipment bought back in 1977.
  
 Thanks.  Bill


----------



## buson160man

billjgw said:


> OK ladies and gents, I've read through the first 100 pages of this thread (and the last few) and I have to admit, I'm both interested in picking something up and a little bleary-eyed.  I'd like to run a few models by your esteemednesses (is that a word?) so you can help me pick one out that will best suit my needs.
> 
> I'm going to be powering a pr. of older VMPS bookshelf speakers that are 4 ohm jobbers.  It's just something to have so I don't need to use the crappy TV speakers.  When the time comes, I'd also like to power a pr. of Hifiman orthos off the speakers taps, hopefully HE-5LEs (diligently saving up for these).  I looking for something on the neutral to warmish side but not sloppy warm.  Here's the other thing.  The budget is limited and always will be as I'm on a fixed income.  So no SX-1980s in my future, Skylab.
> 
> ...


 
  Too bad you do not have the 2270 anymore that must have been a decent piece.


----------



## PhoenixG

billjgw said:


> OK ladies and gents, I've read through the first 100 pages of this thread (and the last few) and I have to admit, I'm both interested in picking something up and a little bleary-eyed.  I'd like to run a few models by your esteemednesses (is that a word?) so you can help me pick one out that will best suit my needs.
> 
> I'm going to be powering a pr. of older VMPS bookshelf speakers that are 4 ohm jobbers.  It's just something to have so I don't need to use the crappy TV speakers.  When the time comes, I'd also like to power a pr. of Hifiman orthos off the speakers taps, hopefully HE-5LEs (diligently saving up for these).  I looking for something on the neutral to warmish side but not sloppy warm.  Here's the other thing.  The budget is limited and always will be as I'm on a fixed income.  So no SX-1980s in my future, Skylab.
> 
> ...


 
 Just my two cents here, but there are always a couple "near top of the line" NTOTL pieces that I think would provide anyone on a budget with fantastic sound for under $200. I do personally like the Yamaha sound and value. Other units to look at that are often for sale might be the sony str-6065 (often had for just over $120) or a realistic sta2000d or sta2100, which are so close to being pioneer 1980 knockoffs that radio shack got sued over the 2100. The 2000d usually goes for $130 and the 2100/2100d usually go higher, but if you're patient, one will come under $200.


----------



## BillJGW

To PhoenixG, thanks for the suggestions.  I looked them up up ebay, found the Sony receiver you recommended but the seller was asking $200.  There were no Realistic models listed of the recommendations you made.  Boy, when I was researching them, they sure look like tanks!  So, while patience is not one of my virtues, I'll keep looking.  That Kenwood integrated for $139 looks like a pretty good deal though...


----------



## Oregonian

I've got a Kenwood KA-5700, a bit lower power than your 7100 and love that amp. It was my first vintage and between the tone controls and loudness switch I discovered a new world of bass! $139 is a good price........


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sherwood 8900A == Awesome if you can find one.  Got one for $49 total and it is my main HP amp.  60WPC and Love it!!!!


----------



## Saoshyant

Hmm, I'll keep an eye out for one a well.


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> Sherwood 8900A == Awesome if you can find one.  Got one for $49 total and it is my main HP amp.  60WPC and Love it!!!!




That is an incredible price!


----------



## BillJGW

I did some more digging and found out the little Yammie receiver *is* rated into a 4 ohm load.  So, I picked it up for $40.  It should be here in a little over a week.  It's rated 35wpc into 8 and 50wpc into 4 ohms.  It's missing one knob on the loudness control that I probably wouldn't use anyway.  I can always pick one up on ebay later if I want to.  If I'm allowed to with my low post count, an more importantly Luddite-like computer skills, I will try to post some pics when it gets here.
  
 I decided to get the Yammie because of its supposed neutral presentation plus it was dirt cheap.  I can always resell it.  The Luxmans (which I really wanted) were getting priced beyond my means, no great surprise there as they are rather coveted these days.  Plus, the Kenwood integrateds are always around; these are another line that interested me.  After looking into the Sherwoods, the research indicated they had a very warm sound sig that probably would have been too much for me.
  
 If I could have afforded one of them, I would have gone after a Luxman.  Many years ago, I heard a Luxman power amp, a M-4000, can't remember exactly what it was driving but might have been some old Magnepans.  Oh boy, did that thing have some muscle, grace, and great tonality.  That was probably 30-35 years ago but I'll never forget it, that's the kind of impression it made on me.
  
 Thanks to everyone who made suggestions.  This thread is probably one of the best, if not the best, here on HF.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> That is an incredible price!


 
  
 Yes I know.  It was up for sale at the local VOA via Ebay.  The claim was that they could not get sound through the speakers, but the HP out worked.  At that point I knew it was something dumb like incorrect usage of the unit or dirty switches, etc.  I was right - they were not pushing the right buttons.  I had it fully working within minutes.  Local pickup too so I did not have to pay shipping.  It sounds dangerously close to my sx1250 too (but warmer) - kind of amazing.  Not a scratch on it either - MINT!


----------



## jnorris

The Kenwood is nice as is the Luxman L-480.  I used to sell both of them 100 years ago.  I owned a Kenwood 9100 that was sweet.  The Luxmans were always desirable, but out of my price range.  I never liked Yamaha.


----------



## spookygonk

jnorris said:


> The Kenwood is nice as is the Luxman L-480.  I used to sell both of them 100 years ago.


 
 How old are you again?


----------



## MIKELAP

phoenixg said:


> Just my two cents here, but there are always a couple "near top of the line" NTOTL pieces that I think would provide anyone on a budget with fantastic sound for under $200. I do personally like the Yamaha sound and value. Other units to look at that are often for sale might be the sony str-6065 (often had for just over $120) or a realistic sta2000d or sta2100, which are so close to being pioneer 1980 knockoffs that radio shack got sued over the 2100. The 2000d usually goes for $130 and the 2100/2100d usually go higher, but if you're patient, one will come under $200.


 
  
 Just saw a  2100d for $220.00  doesnt seem to bad .it says fixed and cleaned


----------



## BobG55

Picked-up this McIntosh MA-6100 preamp & amplifier (integrated amplifier) for $650 US on fleebay.  Seller says it was serviced at Audio Classics two years ago & is in perfect working condition.  Should get it by the 21st.  I was obsessed with owning a McIntosh & this is about all I can afford (figuratively speaking - it put me deeper in debt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .)  From what I've read about this amp it appears to be pretty decent.  It's rated at 70WPC.  The following review (for those who may be interested) helped me in my purchase decision.  I feel like a new, proud Daddy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=amp&m=175617


----------



## SpeakerBox

@ Old Groucho - nice find on the Mac stuff and sounds like a decent price.  Congrats!
  
 Here is something from long ago.  Sears Audio by Fisher.  My daughter has told people at her place of employment that her Dad (me) is into vintage audio.  So Thursday a guy shows up at work and hands her this Fisher receiver for free.  He said the volume control did not work, but I found it was just a dirty tape monitor button.  It needs a good cleaning but listening to it right now and it sounds very good.  Roughly 30WPC - everything works!


----------



## buson160man

mikelap said:


> Just saw a  2100d for $220.00  doesnt seem to bad .it says fixed and cleaned


 
  Sure is a pretty looking unit. Looks nicer than my ugly duckling concept 16.5 .


----------



## buson160man

mikelap said:


> Just saw a  2100d for $220.00  doesnt seem to bad .it says fixed and cleaned


 

  Check out classis receivers on the net. They have it posted under the radio shack receivers. The 2100d model apparently had a conventional transformer. The earlier 2100 model had a toroid transformer but radio shack had to stop using the toroid due to a conflict with pioneer electronics. check out classic receivers information on the radio shack 2100d.


----------



## AudioArby

I redid the surrounds on my JBL 4408 speakers and they sound great with my Yamaha CR-1000.


----------



## buson160man

audioarby said:


> I redid the surrounds on my JBL 4408 speakers and they sound great with my Yamaha CR-1000.


 
  The old yamahas look pretty nice.  I remember they sounded very good.


----------



## PhoenixG

billjgw said:


> To PhoenixG, thanks for the suggestions.  I looked them up up ebay, found the Sony receiver you recommended but the seller was asking $200.  There were no Realistic models listed of the recommendations you made.  Boy, when I was researching them, they sure look like tanks!  So, while patience is not one of my virtues, I'll keep looking.  That Kenwood integrated for $139 looks like a pretty good deal though...


 
 I don't know if it's too late or not, but another Sony STR-6065 has gone up on ebay for $80. I'd jump on it if I were looking for a bargain.


----------



## BillJGW

Thanks, PhoenixG.  I'm strongly considering doing just that.  I'm also watching a HK 505 integrated that's currently going cheap on ebay.  We'll see.
  
  


phoenixg said:


> I don't know if it's too late or not, but another Sony STR-6065 has gone up on ebay for $80. I'd jump on it if I were looking for a bargain.


----------



## BillJGW

I'm waiting for a Yamaha CR-620 receiver to arrive in a couple of days.  I'm also interested in the Sony STR-6065 receiver that PhoenixG recommended and a Harman Kardon HK 505 integrated amp. 
  
 I just read a brief comparo on Audio Asylum between the Yamaha and HK that stated the Yammie was real thin sounding while the HK had a fuller and warmer sound.  In that same comparison, the reviewer stated he thought the HK 505 sounded better than the bigger and older Citation power amps (to him)Anyone else out there have any opinions to share on this?  Your opinions are important to me as I have never heard any vintage HK gear.
  
 Also, how do you think the HK 505 stacks up against the Sony STR-6065?


----------



## jgreen16

audioarby said:


> I redid the surrounds on my JBL 4408 speakers and they sound great with my Yamaha CR-1000.


 
 How difficult was doing this job? I have the replacement foam surrounds for my JBL L110's already, and hope to change them out this next weekend. Did you remove the dustcap and shim the coil when you did the refoam? Thanks!


----------



## AudioArby

I used the 30Hz tone CD that was supplied with the surrounds. I use Rich Cobb as my source (looneytunes2001 on ebay) an he supplies the CD with each order. This centers the voice coil so you don't need to remove the dustcap and shim. It was easy and looks like brand new. I also use Aileens Tacky Glue instead of the glue that comes with the surrounds. The glue can be purchased at any fabric store. It's inexpensive and it lasts.


----------



## AudioArby

Here's the completed woofer.


----------



## jgreen16

audioarby said:


> I used the 30Hz tone CD that was supplied with the surrounds. I use Rich Cobb as my source (looneytunes2001 on ebay) an he supplies the CD with each order. This centers the voice coil so you don't need to remove the dustcap and shim. It was easy and looks like brand new. I also use Aileens Tacky Glue instead of the glue that comes with the surrounds. The glue can be purchased at any fabric store. It's inexpensive and it lasts.


 

 Thanks for the reply. Yep, I also bought from Mr. Cobb on ebay. wasn't sure about the test tone vs. shims, but definitely prefer to not remove the dustcap. It's great to confirm that the test tone method works well.
  
 I also was planning on using a different type of glue, and picked up a tube from Simply Speakers in FL. I had asked a local JBL authorized service center what they would charge for doing the refoam, and they said JBL does not suggest or promote re-foaming of their transducers. They quoted me $166.00 each + tax for a complete recone.
  
 Interestingly, they also claim to use original Part # C8RLE111A recone kits. Everywhere else I have checked say that the kit has ben discontinued, and would be using an aftermarket kit. It makes me wonder if they indeed do have genuine OEM kits on hand?


----------



## jimification

Some gorgeous equipment in here. How do these compare with modern / bespoke units when driving headphones? Are they an "as well as" for when you fancy a change? or would you have one as your main HP amp?
  
 thanks.


----------



## SpeakerBox

My main HP amp is a Sherwood S-8900A.  Over 40 years old.


----------



## AudioArby

jgreen16 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yep, I also bought from Mr. Cobb on ebay. wasn't sure about the test tone vs. shims, but definitely prefer to not remove the dustcap. It's great to confirm that the test tone method works well.
> 
> I also was planning on using a different type of glue, and picked up a tube from Simply Speakers in FL. I had asked a local JBL authorized service center what they would charge for doing the refoam, and they said JBL does not suggest or promote re-foaming of their transducers. They quoted me $166.00 each + tax for a complete recone.
> 
> Interestingly, they also claim to use original Part # C8RLE111A recone kits. Everywhere else I have checked say that the kit has ben discontinued, and would be using an aftermarket kit. It makes me wonder if they indeed do have genuine OEM kits on hand?




Do the $20 reform yourself and take your wife out to dinner with the $140 you saved. The Rich Cobb Surrounds will last at least 15 - 20 years. If it's your 1st time doing your speakers take your time. There are plenty of videos on YouTube that show you how to replace surrounds using the various methods.


----------



## Oregonian

jimification said:


> Some gorgeous equipment in here. How do these compare with modern / bespoke units when driving headphones? Are they an "as well as" for when you fancy a change? or would you have one as your main HP amp?
> 
> thanks.


 

 Many of us use nothing but vintage for our headphone driving.  I used to have a headphone amp but after one day of vintage put it on the market. 
  
 Because the newer "modern" units use opamps instead of coming of the main amp we believe the sound is inferior to the old stuff.


----------



## Saoshyant

I must admit I have zero regrets going vintage for amping. My old amp is currently in a drawer until I figure out a use for it.


----------



## Majestyk

Has anyone here compared their vintage receivers with moderately priced modern headphone amps? I'm just curious where they stand. I have a Yamaha CR-620 that sounds great. I've only compared it with a Lehmann Black Cube Linear and a Matrix M-Stage (Both are similar) and my Yamaha was leaps and bounds better. I'm wondering how it would compare with stuff by AMB, JDS, etc.


----------



## Saoshyant

OT:  The Porking Doll is awesome AudioArby.


----------



## Majestyk

Quote:


billjgw said:


> I'm waiting for a Yamaha CR-620 receiver to arrive in a couple of days.  I'm also interested in the Sony STR-6065 receiver that PhoenixG recommended and a Harman Kardon HK 505 integrated amp.
> 
> I just read a brief comparo on Audio Asylum between the Yamaha and HK that stated the Yammie was real thin sounding while the HK had a fuller and warmer sound.  In that same comparison, the reviewer stated he thought the HK 505 sounded better than the bigger and older Citation power amps (to him)Anyone else out there have any opinions to share on this?  Your opinions are important to me as I have never heard any vintage HK gear.
> 
> Also, how do you think the HK 505 stacks up against the Sony STR-6065?



  
 I just found that post you were mentioning. Bright and thin? WOW! If my Yamaha CR 620 was any warmer, I'd be reaching for the treble control.


----------



## PhoenixG

Still in the midst of moving in to the new home NW of Oregonian, but here's the temporary setup.

  
 During the move, everything got sent out for the latest mods. MR-78 got the Modafferi mod, the Sony str-6120 has already been done (by me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), and the Fisher 800c got fully redone internally by none other than our Argybargy. He did a top tier job on it to boot. The sx-1980 is still out being redone by mattsd from AK. 
 I was also able to collect my parent's collection of vinyl, and they had a few real gems. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Here's one now!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Oregonian

Order is restored to the universe..........congrats SilentOne.


----------



## Skylab

Yes, lovely to see the mighty G-22000 looking ready to purr


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> Order is restored to the universe..........congrats SilentOne.


 





 Feels good to finally get settled.
  
  


skylab said:


> Yes, lovely to see the mighty G-22000 looking ready to purr


 
 First session at the new residence Friday night...barring any severe thunderstorms in Los Angeles.


----------



## AudioArby

saoshyant said:


> OT:  The Porking Doll is awesome AudioArby.




It's a Salt and Pepper set I got in Jamaica. LOL


----------



## AudioArby




----------



## musicman59

audioarby said:


>


 
 That's what I call "Making Bacon"


----------



## wotts

musicman59 said:


> That's what I call "Making Bacon"


----------



## ssrock64

That's something I never thought I'd see checking this thread.


----------



## Saoshyant

I want "The Porking"


----------



## jgreen16

When I first saw the "Porking Doll" reference, I had to go back and look at the pic again. I honestly didn't know what to expect, but something "inflatable" came to mind.


----------



## BobG55

audioarby said:


>


 

 Uh uuuuhhhhhhh .... so now we know : this is the little piggy that stayed home while this other little piggy went to the market,


----------



## pp312

oregonian said:


> Because the newer "modern" units use opamps instead of coming of the main amp we believe the sound is inferior to the old stuff.


 
  
 If they are inferior, it's not for that reason. This has been covered in a number of previous threads, and in one the manufacturers were actually canvassed about their heaphone outs. The answer was that most manufacturers of popularly priced stereo amps take the signal from the speaker outlets. I don't know where this idea that non-vintage stuff uses cheap op amps, but it's demonstably wrong.
  
 This refers specifically to stereo stuff. I don't know about AV amps, but I can attest that models like the Marantz SR4200/4300/4400 etc have  very good headphone outs and can be bought cheaply on Ebay.


----------



## SpeakerBox

pp312 said:


> If they are inferior, it's not for that reason. This has been covered in a number of previous threads, and in one the manufacturers were actually canvassed about their heaphone outs. The answer was that most manufacturers of popularly priced stereo amps take the signal from the speaker outlets. I don't know where this idea that non-vintage stuff uses cheap op amps, but it's demonstably wrong.
> 
> This refers specifically to stereo stuff. I don't know about AV amps, but I can attest that models like the Marantz SR4200/4300/4400 etc have  very good headphone outs and can be bought cheaply on Ebay.


 
  
 I think he may have been referring to headamps that don't have speaker outs.


----------



## pp312

Didn't read that way.


----------



## harrinj

Picked up four Marantz receivers today. 2220, 2225, 2240 and 2250B. They need some extreme TLC but should clean up very nicely. The 2250B's selector potentiometer shaft is broken off so I'm gonna have to figure out a way to repair it or have to put a new one in. Do any of you awesome people have any tips in that regard? Its not fully broken off, there's still some shaft in it. I'd rather 'fix' it than going through the trouble of putting a new one in. The 2220 is missing the screws on the metal case. Anyone know what size they take?


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Picked up four Marantz receivers today. 2220, 2225, 2240 and 2250B. They need some extreme TLC but should clean up very nicely. The 2250B's selector potentiometer shaft is broken off so I'm gonna have to figure out a way to repair it or have to put a new one in. Do any of you awesome people have any tips in that regard? Its not fully broken off, there's still some shaft in it. I'd rather 'fix' it than going through the trouble of putting a new one in. The 2220 is missing the screws on the metal case. Anyone know what size they take?


 

 How many you got now?  And............what are you doing with them?


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> How many you got now?  And............what are you doing with them?




14 Marantz and 20 with the others. I collect them and love fixing them. I don't care if the whole damn house becomes full of them eventually. >


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> 14 Marantz and 20 with the others. I collect them and love fixing them. I don't care if the whole damn house becomes full of them eventually. >


 

 Cool.  I'll keep spotting them and telling you where they are!


----------



## Silent One

harrinj said:


> oregonian said:
> 
> 
> > How many you got now?  And............what are you doing with them?
> ...


 





 To Vintage lovelies!


----------



## moodyrn

Wish my wife would let me do that lol. So I can't help but be a little jealous.


----------



## SpeakerBox

harrinj said:


> The 2250B's selector potentiometer shaft is broken off so I'm gonna have to figure out a way to repair it or have to put a new one in. Do any of you awesome people have any tips in that regard? Its not fully broken off, there's still some shaft in it. I'd rather 'fix' it than going through the trouble of putting a new one in.


 
  
 Had the same problem with the balance control on my SX1250.  Found a spare pot with the same diameter shaft and cut the shaft off the old pot and super glued it to the broken balance control.  Once it was dried  and verified to be straight I coated with epoxy (thin layer).  Then wrapped the break with a small piece of cloth and soaked the cloth with more super glue.  Worked like a charm!


----------



## harrinj

I live alone and have no plans ever to get married so I guess I'm lucky in this hobby lmao 

The 2250B in the bunch I got yesterday is the worst off of them. I found the balance switch is broken too so its stuck all the way to the left. I got them all for $200 three of them I can fully repair except the 2250B will have to wait for another time. 

 The 2220 I spent around 2 and a half hours cleaning last night. This poor receiver was obviously sitting on it's top outside for a long time because there was so much old plant matter, dead insects and spiderwebs on the inside underneath. But after cleaning I've gotten the right channel back but the left channel is half volume at all times. Amazingly everything appears to be in good condition even though it's obviously sat out in the elements for a long time.


----------



## moodyrn

Well there are a couple of projects I've been working on this week. I've been fairly interested in the au999 every since I read about a few over at ak who prefer it over the au9500. So one came available at a decent price so I decided to scoop it up to see for myself. It would also be a good opportunity to hone in on my restore skills.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Well be blunt and short, imo, it does not(at least in stock form). It does have a more neutral tonal balance which is surprising since the 9500 is the new replacement. It also have just a bit more clarity and a tad bit more engaging. But that's where the advantages end. The 9500(at least from memory) is much more refined, smoother, more detailed, more 3d, and have more transparency. So at this point I was wondering if it was even worth doing a restore. But I began to investigate this marvelously built amp further. Well there's a person who discovered the preamp have some issues. It was severely holding the amp part back. He noticed that it clipped way to early, and the 999 would barely even make rated power of 50wpc, which is outside the norm of most of  amps/receivers of this era being under rated. So he came up with a mod known as the kevzep mod that not only removed the bottleneck of clipping way too early, but also allowed the preamp to accept up to a 10v signal(not that anyone would ever need it).
  
 So the end result was much more headroom, a larger, more defined soundstage, more bass impact, and he was now able to get a clean 72wpc before any clipping. Well after doing the mod, I have to agree. It's a much better sounding amp after the preamp mod. The mod also lowed the noise floor a bit. My w3000 have a pretty black background now. So while still no au9500, it's not embarrassed by it anymore either. So I decided to go ahead and restore it which i completed earlier today.
  
 Well, this thing is now good enough that if it was my only amp, I would be happy. It's much more refined, airy, smooth, and now have mids to die for. As of right now, it beats an au9500(stock) pretty easily. I wouldn't hesitate putting it up against an sx1280. It's doesn't quiet beat an sx1250, but it's close. And of couse, it still can't quiet match my fave(g9000). But given these go for 300-400.00 on ebay I can easily recommend it providing someone has the skills to at least do the preamp mod. And even at the current prices I would say it's work it to have it fully restored. Before doing anything, it could get my he6 to play at moderate levels at around 2:00 on the knob. It would clip at 2:30. 
  
 Now I can get them to moderately loud levels at 2:30 and it doesn't clip until around 3:30 on the knob. But the bass is a little thin sounding. So it's not the best pairing. The w3000 on the other hand sounds stellar! My w3000 has thunderous amounts of bass(not a phrase you will hear a lot when it comes to the w3000). They sound sooo buttery smooth and effortless  with a nice deep out of your head soundstage. But unfortunately, this amp doesn't beat out neither the 500c nor my mac(that's just too much to ask) so it won't be a keeper. But it was a fun project, and I'm glad I got to experience what this amp is capable of.
  
 On a side note, I just couldn't resist pulling the trigger on a parts/ repair au9500 that I"m also working on. I'm waiting on some signal resistors to arrive. There's only one working channel right now. But it should be an interesting comparison once I get it completely restored. Pics to follow soon.


----------



## moodyrn




----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice work, Moody.  Congrats.  Certainly time spent at honing your restoration skills is not wasted.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, thanks.


----------



## xdfjdkz

I've been having some trouble with my NAD304 lately, the channels will independently drop out on occasion and come back in when I turn up the volume or turn the amp off for about a minute but it keeps coming back. Is there anything I can do to save it short of bringing it to someone to get serviced? I really love the amp but it's gotten quite frustrating. I should also mention that I don't experience this through the headphone output that I've noticed, though I've used it minimally. 
  
 EDIT: I should also mention that I have not replaced the original jumpers between power and pre and it is the blue circuit board version.


----------



## Delirious Lab

My listening gear at the office: Technics SU-G50 integrated + Koss K/6ALC.  A superb combo for classical music.


----------



## Xenophon

harrinj said:


> *I live alone and have no plans ever to get married so I guess I'm lucky in this hobby lmao*
> 
> The 2250B in the bunch I got yesterday is the worst off of them. I found the balance switch is broken too so its stuck all the way to the left. I got them all for $200 three of them I can fully repair except the 2250B will have to wait for another time.
> 
> The 2220 I spent around 2 and a half hours cleaning last night. This poor receiver was obviously sitting on it's top outside for a long time because there was so much old plant matter, dead insects and spiderwebs on the inside underneath. But after cleaning I've gotten the right channel back but the left channel is half volume at all times. Amazingly everything appears to be in good condition even though it's obviously sat out in the elements for a long time.


 
 I didn't have any marriage plans either...at age 23 which your profile says is your age 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but stuff happens,  resistance vaporised and I went for marriage while a good prenuptial agreement was still negotiable. Better take a good, long look at those receivers when the lady of the house checks in.  My lovely wife lets me purchase anything...provided the total number of pieces of audio kit = constant and I also sell off stuff.


----------



## Skylab

Moody great job on that nice 'Sui!!!

My wife is very good about my hobby, clearly, since I have three pretty significant stereos in the house! But I also really dislike clutter, so for me things have to be neat and tidy, and I'm sure that's part of why my wife doesn't mind. It does mean I have sold some things I kind of wish I still had...but all in all I can't complain


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Skylab.


----------



## harrinj

moodyrn said:


>




That sansui amp looks amazing!!! Somebody contacted me a few months ago with a lower model to that one, The AU7500 but they never would be heard from again. :/


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks, I was pleased with how the final sound came out.


----------



## harrinj

moodyrn said:


> Thanks, I was pleased with how the final sound came out.




Good deal! How much $ do the caps you use run at?


----------



## moodyrn

I ended up spending around 58.00 total on caps, with a big chunk of that being main filter caps. It took a couple of days to do everything. I probably could have gotten it done in one day. But once I start to get a little fatigue, I always stop. Working on this stuff while fatigue can surely lead to make simple but costly mistakes. But it was fun overall. I was able to take a listen after completing each phase in the restore progress. I can't wait to hear how a restored au9500 sounds!!


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a Pioneer SX-1050 for $200 at a pawn shop. Only thing wrong with it is the antenna is broke (hanging) off and its missing every (little) knob. 

I'm surprised it was still there after I first saw it three days ago. SX-1050 for a down to earth price not this NONSENSE $500-$1,000 crap i always see them for.

They also had a Pioneer minty looking Spec-1 amp set.


----------



## Oregonian

harrinj said:


> Picked up a Pioneer SX-1050 for $200 at a pawn shop. Only thing wrong with it is the antenna is broke (hanging) off and its missing every (little) knob.
> 
> I'm surprised it was still there after I first saw it three days ago. SX-1050 for a down to earth price not this NONSENSE $500-$1,000 crap i always see them for.
> 
> They also had a Pioneer minty looking Spec-1 amp set.




Pics my man...........look like this? 

Love my 1050. Congrats.

Now, about that Spec gear..........what was his price? Racked or just loose?


----------



## harrinj

I'll take some pics tomorrow yep I'm just missing the little knobs... I've cleaned this thing up in a motel room lmao!

They had the spec-1 amp and the meter one you have. They had handles but were loose and wanted $499 each for the specs. I've been to this pawn shop before and from a crappy R2R one time, they've never had anything like these before.

This 1050 has been a joy to clean actually. The boards are easy to get out!


----------



## moodyrn

Nice score on the pioneer. It looks good and the few issues are very minor and even still, you got it at a very good price. Congrats.


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, and the 1050 is a serious receiver. Second from the top. That's an amazing price these days for one that works. Good on ya!


----------



## wotts

There is one here for $400, but I have a 1250 and a 1980, so it is hard to justify. And there is the 980 on AK...


----------



## Skylab

I know I've been fighting the urge to buy that 980 on AK. I really don't need it, but I wouldn't mind having a backup receiver and since it's had the PS rebuilt already...


----------



## harrinj

Here's the four I got all together the other day. The 2220 needs new transistors otherwise it's almost non-existant left channel and low volume right channel, needs some new caps and four new feet (why are the feet almost always the most missing thing on Marantz?...). The 2225 works perfect just needs to be cleaned, one new foot and a new push button and I'd better put a new power cord on it. 2240 works but has horrible crackle on the right channel and needs to be cleaned. The 2250B I've not gotten to yet and needs the selector pot fixed and two new knobs aaaaaaand obviously all new LED lights on each. They will be fun to work on over time!




 The SX-1050 works fantastic but it picks up interferance from my Wireless router (I've had to turn off the 2.4Ghz band) I've never had that happen before with these old receivers picks up static in the left channel (WiFi off and it ceases), anyone else exerience this? Even when I was using my phone as a wireless hotspot it'd make static when ever it was being used. It was marked as "parts/service" on the price tag, two fuses were blown and the stereo lever switch was very corroded and so were the pots/other levers. I cleaned it up and it works like new and looks great.



  
 Are the four switches that are together, Is their lever switch different theme from the other 5 lever switches? In Oregonians photo it appears the four together have different looking lever switchs. There's some lever switches on eBay but at $9 ea+$4 shipping is not so great... I wonder why each one of them would be gone


----------



## Banman

Mine aren't really vintage, but I have a pair of JVC "Dynamic Super-A" class RX-817V receivers that are top notch, and I've had them for nearly 20 years.
 Their rated output is conservatively stated as being 105 watts/channel, while maintaining distortion levels at a whopping .007%. That's 1/4th the distortion of my excellent Yamaha 2 channel receiver I bought about 5 years ago.
 They intentionally run hot (you could probably literally do some cooking on them)  because they're inefficient power hungry beasts and because they're class A, which means that their output transistors are active during the entire musical waveform, unlike most which are either B or A/B class, wherein two transistors each do 1/2 of the waveform. This helps to attribute to the ultra low distortion.
 If anyone has this model for sale, let me know because I"d buy it as a backup in the rare chance that one of mine finally gives out.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yup, my Rowland amps are class A and you could fry an egg on one of them (needs a bias adjustment which I will do soon).  Love the sound of class A amps!


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> I know I've been fighting the urge to buy that 980 on AK. I really don't need it, but I wouldn't mind having a backup receiver and since it's had the PS rebuilt already...


 
 Ah, the chorus of growing whispers inside your head.


----------



## DemonFox

silent one said:


> skylab said:
> 
> 
> > I know I've been fighting the urge to buy that 980 on AK. I really don't need it, but I wouldn't mind having a backup receiver and since it's had the PS rebuilt already...
> ...


 
 LOL!!
  
 I just put my 980 in the shop and the shop keeper had a couple of really nice pieces. Sooooo tempted to grab one of the two Marantz he had but I know so little about them I didn't want to do anything until I talked to the know-it-alls  
  
 I think the models were 2213 and 2230. Both are in amazing condition and personally reconditioned by the owner. Guy is about his business so I doubt they'll be in anything other than top quality. He told me that he upgraded the lights to led's so he said they pop like non other. I've had a great time with my 980 and I plan using it for a long long time but I've got that itch and I'm dying to know what else is out there. The only other Vintage amp I have is a SA-8100 that needs a lot of work but when I can get it working just right it sounds pretty stinking good! So of course that means there's gotta be other great deals out there. 
  
 I'll be using them solely with headphones so the 18 watts per and 38 per should be more than enough. 
  
 What do you guys think is a fair deal for those two and anyone here have any strong opinions on either one I'd love to hear it! 
  
 Once he comes back and lets me know how my 980 is doing I'll keep everyone updated on how its all going and the type of work that needs to be done to it. 
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## frank2908

Anyone has experience with vintage mcintosh pwer amp like the 2505? Im considering a sansui ba5000 for my sansui au20000 but it has no headphones out. The 2505 has hp out, so i can alternate between mcintosh and au20000. On ebay the price for ba5000 and 2505 are about the same price. Im using modded t50rp, hd800 and kef ls50 speaker.


----------



## PhoenixG

frank2908 said:


> Anyone has experience with vintage mcintosh pwer amp like the 2505? Im considering a sansui ba5000 for my sansui au20000 but it has no headphones out. The 2505 has hp out, so i can alternate between mcintosh and au20000. On ebay the price for ba5000 and 2505 are about the same price. Im using modded t50rp, hd800 and kef ls50 speaker.


 
 I have never been disappointed by any of McIntosh's core products. I really like how their power amps sound. The 2505 is not the absolute best amp they ever made, and can have the slightest whisper of a noise floor, but the sound tone is impressive. Also, blue meters = heaven.
 The problem you might have is the itch to upgrade your preamp, as the Mac power amp will reveal any flaws you have in your signal path.
 McIntosh amps are also very easy to get parts for if you need a repair, just as a consideration.


----------



## Saoshyant

I've been fighting an urge to buy a 980 too, but mine's a gtx 980. Oh the boost my computer would see...


----------



## MattTCG

Hey guys. It's been quite some time since I've visited this thread, but I used to be somewhat of a regular. I was able to take away lot's of good information here and have owned several very nice vintage pieces in the past based on what I learned from this thread.
  
 This brings me to a request. I'm looking to score another receiver to drive some nice floorstanders. Unfortunately life is a little different for me now than  it was when I was enjoying hunting for these pieces in the past and I'm not in a position to hunt these like I used to.
  
 I'd like to buy another Pioneer 70's receiver. I'm looking for an sx 80 or 50 series model ( 1050, 1080, 1250 or 1280). Condition needs to be functionally good because I'm not able to do a full restoration on the electrical. I can do repair work on the wood cabinet though.
  
 So if anyone should come across one of these or would like to sell one please give me a shout. I would be willing to drive to collect on one of these...Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee or surrounding areas.
  
 Thanks in advance everyone and I apologize for the off topic.
  
 best,
  
 Matt


----------



## Silent One

@ MattTCG
  





 Great to see you reemerge, handling your affairs and still appreciating our _vintage lovelies_.


----------



## buson160man

harrinj said:


> Here's the four I got all together the other day. The 2220 needs new transistors otherwise it's almost non-existant left channel and low volume right channel, needs some new caps and four new feet (why are the feet almost always the most missing thing on Marantz?...). The 2225 works perfect just needs to be cleaned, one new foot and a new push button and I'd better put a new power cord on it. 2240 works but has horrible crackle on the right channel and needs to be cleaned. The 2250B I've not gotten to yet and needs the selector pot fixed and two new knobs aaaaaaand obviously all new LED lights on each. They will be fun to work on over time!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I wish I had the space to collect more vintage pieces. It must be nice to have the space required to mount a collection of vintage beauties . Unfortunately my tiny apartment does not afford me the luxury of collecting vintage units. That is a nice stack of Marantz units you got there.


----------



## moodyrn

phoenixg said:


> I have never been disappointed by any of McIntosh's core products. I really like how their power amps sound. The 2505 is not the absolute best amp they ever made, and can have the slightest whisper of a noise floor, but the sound tone is impressive. Also, blue meters = heaven.
> The problem you might have is the itch to upgrade your preamp, as the Mac power amp will reveal any flaws you have in your signal path.
> McIntosh amps are also very easy to get parts for if you need a repair, just as a consideration.


 
 Yep pretty spot on on the mc2500. The one I used to own was just a touch noisy with a beautiful tonal balance. So I restored it including replacing most of the transitors, especially the noisy ones, with low noise trans and the noise floor was greatly improved. It was whisper quiet out of my sensitive cans. It's a very good amp and excellent once restored properly. Restoring one is realatively simple. There's not a lot of parts, it's the design and output transformers that make the 2500 special. Some prefer them to some of the mac tubes amps. Now I wouldn't go that far, but I did like it better than a ma6200(which I really loved), but not as much as my 2205.
  
 Btw frank2908 could you provide a link as to where you saw a ba5000 around the same price of the mc2505? Either the 2505 is overpriced by thousands, or someone clearly don't know what they have in the ba5000 which means it's probably gone. A ba5000 is not only x-rare, but scarce and typically goes for several thousands. It's so beastly, it can make the super monsterous sx1980 run home and cry for mama.


----------



## DemonFox

So my SX-980 is back home after have some work done and my goodness I hardly recognize the thing!
  
 The sound is so much stronger and cleaner than before. I always thought the amp was special but that was before I got it serviced and cleaned. Could not be happier! 
  
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## SpeakerBox

demonfox said:


> So my SX-980 is back home after have some work done and my goodness I hardly recognize the thing!
> 
> The sound is so much stronger and cleaner than before. I always thought the amp was special but that was before I got it serviced and cleaned. Could not be happier!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats!  Listening to my restored 1250 right now.  Makes a huge difference.  Enjoy!


----------



## Wingtip

Greetings to all - recent lurker, first time poster. I've been a vintage receiver and speaker enthusiast for a while, but as a new father, I've come to appreciate the synergy between modern headphones and vintage amplification. My wife bought me Sennheiser HD 380 a couple years ago, and until recently I used them infrequently, and exclusively on my Mac laptop or iPhone. Why bother with headphones when I had vintage receivers with ample watts powering massive JBL L300s with 15" woofers, horn midranges, and 077 slot tweeters?
  
 Turns out that tiny-ass infants ain't cool with those high-SPL shenanigans. I used to rock and roll all night and party every day. Then it was every other day... now I'm lucky to find half an hour a week in which to get funky. One night I'm sitting in front of the laptop, digging some high-res needledrops via the Sennheisers, when it occurs to me: you got a 6.5mm adapter; jack that straight into the source. My test track was Sultans of Swing, from a first run pressing of Dire Straits' eponymous debut. A very well-recorded LP, readily available in many used record bins at a reasonable price, and and an excellent test of any audio system. 
  
I hooked the Sennheisers up to my Concept 11.0 (which has *two* headphone outputs), and my immediate reaction was "_holy ****!"_
  
 I've never owned or even listened to summit-fi headphones, but I do have experience with TOTL vintage gear, and this was a startling and revelatory audio experience. The Concept 11.0 was driving the hell out of my headphones, and the vinyl sounded incredible. I tried it with some other gear - Rotel RX-1603, Marantz 2325, and Luxman R-1120 - and the experience was incredible across the board. Any recommendations for headphone upgrades to enjoy the amplification available?


----------



## Saoshyant

There is a world of options ahead of you, which in your case is both lucky or unlucky.  When I started into headphones, I realized I had two paths I could take.  Get the most expensive thing I could, or work my way up and make a journey of it.  I'm liking that I decided to go the journey path, and due to luck found some ridiculous deals along the way to help me along that path.
  
 Unfortunately I'm not particularly useful when it comes to making suggestions on closed headphones, something I hope to remedy one day.  My top two closed are the on ear Senn Momentum, and Onkyo's FC300.  I'm sure there are others who'll be more helpful in this department.
  
 Either way, welcome to head-fi, and given your background, there's no need to apologize for what it's about to do to your wallet.


----------



## moodyrn

wingtip said:


> Greetings to all - recent lurker, first time poster. I've been a vintage receiver and speaker enthusiast for a while, but as a new father, I've come to appreciate the synergy between modern headphones and vintage amplification. My wife bought me Sennheiser HD 380 a couple years ago, and until recently I used them infrequently, and exclusively on my Mac laptop or iPhone. Why bother with headphones when I had vintage receivers with ample watts powering massive JBL L300s with 15" woofers, horn midranges, and 077 slot tweeters?
> 
> Turns out that tiny-ass infants ain't cool with those high-SPL shenanigans. I used to rock and roll all night and party every day. Then it was every other day... now I'm lucky to find half an hour a week in which to get funky. One night I'm sitting in front of the laptop, digging some high-res needledrops via the Sennheisers, when it occurs to me: you got a 6.5mm adapter; jack that straight into the source. My test track was Sultans of Swing, from a first run pressing of Dire Straits' eponymous debut. A very well-recorded LP, readily available in many used record bins at a reasonable price, and and an excellent test of any audio system.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Welcome to headfi and more importantly, this thread lol. Great first post, there have been many eye openers around here the first time someone plugged their cans into the headphone jack of a nice vintage iron. I'm an ortho lover myself, and for not much money, I can recommend a pair of mad dogs just to get you feet wet if it's closed your after. If you don't mind open cans, then the newly released hifiman he-400i is getting a lot of positive reviews. Do you have a budget in mind?


----------



## Skylab

demonfox said:


> So my SX-980 is back home after have some work done and my goodness I hardly recognize the thing!
> 
> The sound is so much stronger and cleaner than before. I always thought the amp was special but that was before I got it serviced and cleaned. Could not be happier!
> 
> ...




Nice! No doubt, the more you show these vintage pieces some love, the more they love you back


----------



## Wingtip

Greetings to all - recent lurker, first time poster. I've been a vintage receiver and speaker enthusiast for a while, but as a new father, I've come to appreciate the synergy between modern headphones and vintage amplification. My wife bought me Sennheiser HD 380 a couple years ago, and until recently I used them infrequently, and exclusively on my Mac laptop or iPhone. Why bother with headphones when I had vintage receivers with ample watts powering massive JBL L300s with 15" woofers, horn midranges, and 077 slot tweeters?
 
Turns out that tiny-ass infants ain't cool with those high-SPL shenanigans. I used to rock and roll all night and party every day. Then it was every other day... now I'm lucky to find half an hour a week in which to get funky. One night I'm sitting in front of the laptop, digging some high-res needledrops via the Sennheisers, when it occurs to me: you got a 6.5mm adapter; jack that straight into the source. My test track was Sultans of Swing, from a first run pressing of Dire Straits' eponymous debut. A very well-recorded LP, readily available in many used record bins at a reasonable price, and and an excellent test of any audio system. 
 
I hooked the Sennheisers up to my Concept 11.0 (which has *two* headphone outputs), and my immediate reaction was "_holy ****!"_
 
I've never owned or even listened to summit-fi headphones, but I do have experience with TOTL vintage gear, and this was a startling and revelatory audio experience. The Concept 11.0 was driving the hell out of my headphones, and the vinyl sounded incredible. I tried it with some other gear - Rotel RX-1603, Marantz 2325, and Luxman R-1120 - and the experience was incredible across the board. Any recommendations for headphone upgrades to enjoy the amplification available?


----------



## Wingtip

Apologies for the double post. saoshyant, I'm not necessarily limited to closed back headphones. moodyrn, I'm probably looking in the $400-$800 range. 
  
 Based on my preliminary research on this site, it appears that a receiver's damping factor and output impedance are important in determining its ability to drive modern headphones. Are there any recommended guidelines for compatibility, or any introductory guides to understanding these variables?


----------



## Xenophon

It's said that the impedance of the headphone should be >8 times the output impedance of the amp for optimum damping. Planar headphones are much less sensitive to this than dynamic cans, I guess due to the fact that they represent a uniform, almost purely resistive load and because mechanical damping is more important there.  
  
 No idea what the output impedance of the headphone out of my SX-1980 is but all I can say is that both my HE-6 (50 ohm planar) and HD-800 (supposedly 300 Ohm but variable) sound great on it.


----------



## MattTCG

wingtip said:


> Apologies for the double post. saoshyant, I'm not necessarily limited to closed back headphones. moodyrn, I'm probably looking in the $400-$800 range.
> 
> Based on my preliminary research on this site, it appears that a receiver's damping factor and output impedance are important in determining its ability to drive modern headphones. Are there any recommended guidelines for compatibility, or any introductory guides to understanding these variables?


 
  
 The Mad Dog that Moody suggest is quite good. The other choice given your budget would be to step up to the Alpha Dog. IMO the Alpha Dog is one of the best bargains in the game, especially for a closed ortho. I have put them against hp's that cost 2x as much and come away liking the AD more.  I've tried the AD on several nice vintage receivers and they really pair well with vintage amps and receivers. It's also a very nice looking hp with the claret colored 3-d printed cups. Anyway, that's my best recommendation. GL...and welcome to headfi!!


----------



## Oregonian

wingtip said:


> Apologies for the double post. saoshyant, I'm not necessarily limited to closed back headphones. moodyrn, I'm probably looking in the $400-$800 range.
> 
> Based on my preliminary research on this site, it appears that a receiver's damping factor and output impedance are important in determining its ability to drive modern headphones. Are there any recommended guidelines for compatibility, or any introductory guides to understanding these variables?




Congrats on the little one and welcome to the best thread on Head Fi!

I honestly wouldn't worry too much about the damping factor situation. I've been running nothing but vintage amps for over two years now with a variety of headphones from the ortho HE-6 straight out of the speaker taps of a Pioneer Spec 2 down to the dynamic Denons and you are so right, the sound is like a revelation. At least for us vintage fanboys.

As was mentioned the Mr. Speakers line of ortho headphones (Mad Dog, Alpha Dog) really do sound amazing out of vintage. I found the HE-400 from HiFiMan to be very impressive as well. Not quite as mind blowing as the HE-6 from the taps but pretty good.


----------



## PhoenixG

xenophon said:


> It's said that the impedance of the headphone should be >8 times the output impedance of the amp for optimum damping. Planar headphones are much less sensitive to this than dynamic cans, I guess due to the fact that they represent a uniform, almost purely resistive load and because mechanical damping is more important there.
> 
> No idea what the output impedance of the headphone out of my SX-1980 is but all I can say is that both my HE-6 (50 ohm planar) and HD-800 (supposedly 300 Ohm but variable) sound great on it.


 
 Just throwing my two cents in on damping factor here. Damping factor is more at play when you have a lot of driver (not listener, haha) mass moving around and isn't quite as big with phones. Here's one reason why that's the case with headphones besides the small drivers. Most vintage amps put resistors in the output path to protect the amp and your phones from being well overpowered. The more powerful the amp, the bigger the resistor, the lower the damping factor. That has the curious effect of taking a number that is normally quite big and making it very small, possibly even less than one. That means your headphones might not even be the most important part of the circuit (electronically at least, haha). The benefit to that though is that the impedance curve of your headphone becomes a less important part of the frequency space voltage divider equation, effectively flattening out the response curve of your phones and conforming it towards the amp's curve. This also has a strong effect of creating synergies of amp/phone combos that just pair so very well together because they balance each other well. This thread has largely mulled over those synergies and their discovery helps keep it around. 
 Cheers.


----------



## MattTCG

Well, that search didn't take nearly as long as I expected. With Moody's help, I scored a near pristine Fisher 500c tonight. Should have it in about a week. I'm super excited to own this one. I first got interested in the Fisher about five years ago. Moody's review about it sealed the deal for me and I've wanted it ever since.
  
 Can't wait to have such a nice, rare piece of vintage steel back on the rack. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks for your help Moody, much appreciated.


----------



## BobG55

wingtip said:


> Apologies for the double post. saoshyant, I'm not necessarily limited to closed back headphones. moodyrn, I'm probably looking in the $400-$800 range.
> 
> Based on my preliminary research on this site, it appears that a receiver's damping factor and output impedance are important in determining its ability to drive modern headphones. Are there any recommended guidelines for compatibility, or any introductory guides to understanding these variables?


 

 Hi Wingtip,
  
 First of all congrats on your new little one.  Looks adorable.  If you're looking for an excellent "closed" HP I personally recommend the Shure SRH1540 which is in the lower part of your price range.  I've had this HP for a while now & just love it.  It's very well balanced & the soundstage is quite surprising for a closed HP.  Below is a link of a review by a respected HP expert named Tyll Hertsens of Innerfidelity.
  


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/cool-comfy-and-competent-shure-srh1540


----------



## Xenophon

matttcg said:


> Well, that search didn't take nearly as long as I expected. With Moody's help, I scored a near pristine Fisher 500c tonight. Should have it in about a week. I'm super excited to own this one. I first got interested in the Fisher about five years ago. Moody's review about it sealed the deal for me and I've wanted it ever since.
> 
> Can't wait to have such a nice, rare piece of vintage steel back on the rack.
> 
> ...


 

 Congratulations!  I've been looking at the Fishers for quite some time too but they're hard to find over the pond and I have enough build/restauration projects on my plate now.  Enjoy and please post some pictures (and a review of course  once you have it.


----------



## MattTCG

xenophon said:


> Congratulations!  I've been looking at the Fishers for quite some time too but they're hard to find over the pond and I have enough build/restauration projects on my plate now.  Enjoy and please post some pictures (and a review of course  once you have it.


 
  
 Thanks. I'll post some pics and impressions after I've had a little time with it. It looks like the only project I'll be doing is a custom hardwood cabinet for the Fisher. Just got to pick out a nice variety of wood, maybe walnut or some spalted maple. Hm....


----------



## SpeakerBox

A thing of beauty!  One of my model 1 amps with the top off while adjusting the bias to spec.  Jeff Rowland himself gave me the instructions on how to do it!


----------



## Silent One

Yes indeed, SpeakerBox...what a shot!


----------



## joehalo




----------



## jgreen16

^^ Great looking Yamaha, and some good albums to boot behind it.


----------



## analogsurviver

Sad day - after spinning some vinyl I checked the mails - and
  
                                                                               Harry Pearson
  

                                                 the father of The Absolute Sound,
  
 is no longer with us.
  
 http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/harry-pearson/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-308
  
 Although he was not exactly receiver lover, most on this thread should at least have heard about him. Out hobby was never the same after he put an indelible stamp on what was then the beginning of audio vocabulary describing subjective experiences of sound. 
  
 I would like to thank him for some seminal reviews that defined subjective audio as we know it today, express condolences to his close ones and to him - R.I.P.
  
 On Cloud Nine, with the last TAS Super Disc list  he compiled for the last 4 decades played on his dearest system. He will be missed .


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Sorry to hear it.
  
 On a positive note, I scored some Bose 501 series ii speakers today as freebies. Not sure if they even work, but I had to save 'em. My Fisher 500c did not quite make it to Atlanta today but will be here Monday.


----------



## jnorris

Wow. HP's not even settled into his final resting place and you talk about Bose 501s. Can't a man have any peace? He might return just long enough to strangle you.


----------



## levlhed

I do know better than to ask in this particular thread.....but am I nuts?
  
 I'm considering the idea of moving my lovely Leben CS300XS out for a nice old fat solid state integrated.  I really do love the sound of tubes, and have dearly enjoyed the Leben...but some part of me is actually tired of the hassle of tubes.  Like, when I manage to forget to turn the thing off when I go to bed/etc.  hah  Or the endless obsessing over finding the "right" tubes which are never cheap.
  
 My headphones are Beyerdynamic T1
 Sources are an Asus STX card from computer, a great turntable with a dedicated Sutherland PhD phono pre, and occasionally a cassette deck.  I do use a line out for capturing audio into another PC when I find the time.
 I also have a set of Tekton Design OB4.5 speakers I fire up now and then.  Not power hungry speakers at all, and I never play them loudly.


----------



## Silent One

levlhed said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Is it a matter of space allocated for your gears and/or you'd like to use the proceeds from the Leben for the purchase of that nice old fat solid state integrated? Easy for me to suggest but if you're able to keep the Leben, then the purchase of a vintage integrated could complete your audio rack.


----------



## levlhed

Nah, space isn't the problem.  More the idea that I'd have to let the Leben go in order to get what I want (what do I want anyway? hah). I suppose if I could figure out a way to have both that would be ideal.  Then I wouldn't be so afraid that I'd made a bad decision.  I feel like I have to get something from the top of the hill to be on the same level as the CS300XS, but I'm not so sure I can swing that without selling it first.  Hence the predicament.


----------



## M-83

Hi does anyone have a vintage amp recommendation to use as a headphone amp for Mad Dogs please?


----------



## MattTCG

m-83 said:


> Hi does anyone have a vintage amp recommendation to use as a headphone amp for Mad Dogs please?


 
  
 Most planar mag hp's will love the vintage steel, no matter which one you pick. I had the MD with a pioneer sx-1280 and a Sansui 8080 and the MD paired equally well with both receivers.


----------



## Saoshyant

If you're looking to dive into the less expensive side of vintage, I've enjoyed everything I've plugged into my sx-737 so far.


----------



## M-83

matttcg said:


> Most planar mag hp's will love the vintage steel, no matter which one you pick. I had the MD with a pioneer sx-1280 and a Sansui 8080 and the MD paired equally well with both receivers.


 

 Thanks Matt, I'll have a look around.  I'm basically choosing between going with an Audio-gd NFB-15 with TXCO & 35W transformer ( so getting dac & amp in one modern solution), or, a vintage amp for less money (Do I need a dac also or just let the vintage amp do its thing?).  The amp I buy will be going on my bedside table, and ideally I would like to connect Mad Dogs to a Surface Pro 3 USB slot (can I bypass the crap soundcard?) using Xbox Music, or, a Nokia Lumia 1520 phone via 3.5mm jack (I don't think Windows Phone 8.1 supports USB OTG sadly!). 
  
 I am selling my AKG K550 & Fiio E17 to supplement the cost of this pending purchase; the K550s are nice but too upper frequency led causing ear fatigue for me- I much prefer MD sound.  The Fiio E17 just doesn't open the sound up enough (can start clipping here & there on 12 gain which isn't good), is muddy at volume  and is not loud enough for me hence my researching every possible suitable solution that is = to or < than $300/ £250.
  
 Also, similar topic, I have a Yamaha Aventage A1020 7.1 channel amplifier (dac on each channel) in my lounge connected to Monitor Audio BX5 floor standing speakers with a subwoofer.  An Xbox One is connected via HDMI using Xbox Music. You can have different "zones" so other speakers connected to it in another room say... but... I am wondering if anyone here could advise whether I could somehow connect a vintage receiver to the BX5's without having to disconnect them from the Yamaha amp?  (sorry if that's a silly question but I'm guessing a vintage receiver powering them would sound more musical?).
  
 Thanks any advice appreciated as I'm eager to buy something for my MDs asap 
  
 Rgds,
 M-83


----------



## M-83

saoshyant said:


> If you're looking to dive into the less expensive side of vintage, I've enjoyed everything I've plugged into my sx-737 so far.


 

 Hi Sao,
  
 Thanks is that a Pioneer (guessing!)? 
  
 Rgds,
 M-83


----------



## Saoshyant

Yes it is, I've run an he400, hd700, and lcd2.2 from it. If no volume is around 7:30 on the clock, I listen at around 9, so there's plenty of power to spare.


----------



## M-83

saoshyant said:


> Yes it is, I've run an he400, hd700, and lcd2.2 from it. If no volume is around 7:30 on the clock, I listen at around 9, so there's plenty of power to spare.


 

 Thanks I'll have a look. 
  
 P.S pls have a look @ my reply to Matt above, with more details description of what I am trying to achieve. If there is anything you could add I'd be grateful. Thx.  Rgds.


----------



## levlhed

There is a lady I used to work with who claimed to have some "stereo equipment" that belonged to her husband somewhere in storage.  Of course, she has no idea what it is but when I questioned the varying quality of stuff she seemed to think it was good stuff because her husband had to have good stuff.  I told her I was definitely interested in it, whatever it is, and she promised that eventually she'd be going through the storage space and she'd let me know.
 But she doesn't work where I do anymore so I've kind of lost touch with her...thinking I need to take a stab at resurrecting this lead now.  I mean...how could I not?


----------



## LugBug1

Haven't had much to contribute to this beloved thread recently so been keeping a low profile. Been catching up today and theres been some great posts. 
  
 Moody that Sansui is an absolute belter and great work as per usual. I would luuuuv one of those!
  
 Quote:


moodyrn said:


>


 
  
  


skylab said:


> Nice! No doubt, the more you show these vintage pieces some love, the more they love you back


 
 So true! 
  
 Enjoyed seeing your gear in the HF station thread and I'm sure no-one is going to complain about seeing it again here.


----------



## Skylab

I do love watching the reels go round


----------



## levlhed

Still trying to connect with the ex-coworker.  She was going to take pictures and send them to me, but when she started pulling the stuff out of the closet she realized there was more stuff there than she thought (!?!) and it was going to take her too long...so she just put it all back. So I asked via email if she could just send me a list of make/model, but then she went out of town until this weekend sometime.  aargh...
  
 So, now I'm just waiting for her to get back so I can arrange a time to just go there and take a look.  I still have no clue what I'm going to find and I'm trying really hard to not get my hopes up!
  
  
 On another note, I'm thinking I have zero'd in on what I'd like to pick up for a first stab at vintage solid state for headphone use, a Marantz 1060


----------



## LugBug1

levlhed said:


> On another note, I'm thinking I have zero'd in on what I'd like to pick up for a first stab at vintage solid state for headphone use, a Marantz 1060


 
 Nice   What headphones will you be using?


----------



## levlhed

Beyerdynamic T1 for headphones.  I've had these for a few years now.  Haven't felt an itch to change (yet)


----------



## Oregonian

levlhed said:


> Beyerdynamic T1 for headphones.  I've had these for a few years now.  Haven't felt an itch to change (yet)




That's one of the headphones that I would love to try out on my vintage systems.

How do you find the bass on those?

By the way, I can't wait to hear what kind of equipment your ex coworker has for you. It's probably some top-of-the-line equipment that will blow your mind.


----------



## MattTCG

A few words about* The Fisher 500c*...
  
 I'll cut right to the chase, for me this is the best headphone amplifier that I have ever heard, period. This would include the Pioneer sx-1050/1080/1250/1280, Sansui 8080, etc. I'd go as far to include dedicated headphone amps such as: schiit mojolnir, LYR, Valhalla 2, headamp gsx mkii, Oppo HA-1 and others that I've owned but forgotten.
  
 I won't even go into the Fisher's capabilities for powering speakers, impressive as they are. This is my first impression that I wrote to Moody after first listening to the Fisher for about an hour:
  
  
"Well, so far I really love what I'm hearing from the 500c. There is an incredible amount of sophistication and refinement to the receiver.  You know that I have much love for the old Pioneers, but there is something addictive about the sound of the Fisher. Where the Pioneers were about brute power and dynamics, the Fisher is about the details and how they are presented. And man, they are presented so nicely. 
 
After an hours session with the a couple pairs of speakers, I plugged in my pair of hd800's. I'm pretty sure my jaw hit the desk. I had no idea that the Fisher would pair so nicely with the ultra picky hd800. I'll have to take some time and compare the pairing against the Crack and Valhalla 2. As much as I liked the Fisher with speakers, I think I was more impressed with what it did with the hd800. Truly impressive."
 
The hd800 is the pickiest, most demanding, finicky but ultimately most rewarding headphone that I've ever owned. The Fisher brings out the very best in the hd800 and makes listening to music a truly sublime and intoxicating experience. The price of the Fisher would be worth it to listen to the hd800 alone with nothing else, not even speakers. As a headphone amp it's just that good. The 500c brings soul and sweetness to the sound signature. The sound staging is both wide and deep with wonderful air around voices and instruments. Mids are natural and the most tonally accurate that I've ever heard when paired with the hd800.
 
People often talk about tightness and texture of the bass frequency. I haven't truly understood the meaning of those words until I heard the fisher. The control this amp has over the bass/sub bass puts a Cheshire grin on my face every single time.
 
I spend my youth listening to my dad and his friends playing live music "in the barn" behind the house. The fisher is able to reproduce the accuracy and realism of live music better than I ever imagined possible.
 
I wondered if I might be paying a little too much for the Fisher although it was in pristine condition and restored. After having spend this week with it, I'd have paid twice the asking price now.


----------



## levlhed

re: T1 headphones
 I'm very bass-oriented in my listening, mainly listen to electronic based music.  I run my Leben CS300XS with the bass boost @ +3db (the first notch) and am quite satisfied.
 At one time I thought I should switch to LCD's, but after looking closely at frequency response graphs and comparing with the T1's, I realized with my +3db bass boost I'm pretty much right there anyway.  I decided it wasn't worth it to switch for me, the T1's are quite comfortable for me to wear for hours at a time.
 Right now I'm listening to the U Ziq minimal techno radio stream.... http://www.uzic.ch/
  
 That's why I think a Marantz 1060 might be a good place for me to start, looking for more bass heavy (heavy? maybe not heavy, but there) and coming from tubes so something a little smoother. Plus, I need the connectivity on the 1060 because I have three line level sources in rotation.  Also, doesn't everyone have to hear the classic Marantz sound at some point in their audio journey?
  
 And stop reminding me of the co worker vintage audio gear closet fantasy.  Or tell me it will probably all be BPC.  I'm going nuts here!


----------



## LugBug1

levlhed said:


> re: T1 headphones
> I'm very bass-oriented in my listening, mainly listen to electronic based music.  I run my Leben CS300XS with the bass boost @ +3db (the first notch) and am quite satisfied.
> At one time I thought I should switch to LCD's, but after looking closely at frequency response graphs and comparing with the T1's, I realized with my +3db bass boost I'm pretty much right there anyway.  I decided it wasn't worth it to switch for me, the T1's are quite comfortable for me to wear for hours at a time.
> Right now I'm listening to the U Ziq minimal techno radio stream.... http://www.uzic.ch/
> ...


 
 Yes I think most vintage amps in theory should pair well with the power hungry T1's. The marantz sound will defo provide a nice bit warmth and you should notice a more pronounced bass response over normal dedicated amps simply because of the extra power and high impedance. I haven't heard the T1's but used to own the 880's and so I have a general idea of the Beyer sound. Should be a good match 
  
 I would also look out for anything classic Sansui. The 70's Sansui sound in general is silky and refined with warmth. I use NAD amps now from the late 70's early 80's and they also have a similar sound to Sansui but are better suited for more sensitive hp's.
  
 Keep us informed with your vintage journey, this 'closet' thing is getting quite intriguing!


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> A few words about* The Fisher 500c*...
> 
> I wondered if I might be paying a little too much for the Fisher although it was in pristine condition and restored. After having spend this week with it, I'd have paid twice the asking price now.


 
 Congrats on the Fisher Matt, you own 'one of' the holy grails now! 
  
 I think the last line you wrote has summed up why we love the vintage!
  
 
 (and just to cater for my obsession with all things that 'hiss' with the HD800.... Is there any?


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> A few words about* The Fisher 500c*...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 





 Congrats on the '500c!' After reading moody's experience with the model, I was moved enough to set out and get one. Nearly did, as I found a seller locally just minutes from home. The seller's feet went cold and quick! Contacted him just as he decided to hold on to it.


----------



## MattTCG

silent one said:


> Congrats on the '500c!' After reading moody's experience with the model, I was moved enough to set out and get one. Nearly did, as I found a seller locally just minutes from home. The seller's feet went cold and quick! Contacted him just as he decided to hold on to it.


 
  
 I also came close a few times with the Fisher. The guy who sold one to Moody had a second one but wouldn't ship it. He told me that I could drive to AZ and pick it up though. As bad as I wanted to, I just couldn't make the trip. It's all good though, because I'm in love with the one I have now.


----------



## LugBug1

lugbug1 said:


> (and just to cater for my obsession with all things that 'hiss' with the HD800.... Is there any?


 
  
  


matttcg said:


>


 
 ??
  




  
  
(I'm sure you must have missed my post by accident as I'm certain that you wouldn't include me in your current Hiatus?  After all it was only one night... We we were both very drunk, one thing lead to another and yes I left in the morning without saying goodbye (or flushing the toilet) but hey! you know, these things happen!! As long as no-one got hurt.. Well,  I did have some bite marks on my ankles but we'll not go into that. Ermmm..


----------



## Silent One

matttcg said:


> I also came close a few times with the Fisher. The guy who sold one to Moody had a second one but wouldn't ship it. He told me that I could drive to AZ and pick it up though. As bad as I wanted to, I just couldn't make the trip. It's all good though, because I'm in love with the one I have now.


 
 I still would like to hear one; get one. Maybe "2015"...


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> ??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is no audible hiss at all and I am sensitive to it.


----------



## cute

matttcg said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > ??
> ...


 

 Are you using the headphone jack?  Does it have it's own internal DAC?


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> There is no audible hiss at all and I am sensitive to it.


 
Great stuff  
  
Theres not many 60's/70's amps that I've heard that are black silent with the HD800 so this is good news! And gives me hope! 
  
Pleased you're enjoying it.


----------



## MattTCG

cute said:


> Are you using the headphone jack?  Does it have it's own internal DAC?


 
  
 No internal dac. Using my uberfrost.


----------



## Blueshound24

matttcg said:


> No internal dac. Using my uberfrost.


 

 So are you using the headphone jack or speaker taps?
 TIA


----------



## MattTCG

Officially it's the "earphone" jack.


----------



## Blueshound24

matttcg said:


> Officially it's the "earphone" jack.


 
  
 Sorry... wrong terminology
  
 That vintage of receiver "earphone" jack must obviously come from the main power amp via a dropping resistor vs a separate op-amp. (Duh)
  
 I would sometime like to try either a vintage receiver or go off the speaker taps of an old BK ST-140 speaker amp I have laying around, however not sure of the logistics of it.


----------



## MattTCG

I just can't resist the opportunity to try the 500c from the speakers taps, especially for the Alpha Dogs. Got the cable on the way. Oh, and I'm also wondering how good the he560 would sound off those speaker taps.


----------



## Skylab

Matt big congrats on the Fisher! I loved my KX-100. I missi to sometimes. It was indeed awesome with headphones.


----------



## jgreen16

lugbug1 said:


> I would also look out for anything classic Sansui. The 70's Sansui sound in general is silky and refined with warmth. I use NAD amps now from the late 70's early 80's and they also have a similar sound to Sansui but are better suited for more sensitive hp's.
> 
> Keep us informed with your vintage journey, this 'closet' thing is getting quite intriguing!


 
  
 I can also vouch for the '70's Sansui equipment sounding really good. I previously owned a G-5500 receiver that was good, but now I have an AU-717 integrated amp, and it goes really well with my Beyer DT-880 600 ohm hp's. Really a beautiful pairing. I prefer it to the Pioneer SX-950 I also had, but sold recently.
  
 Oh, and I'm also looking forward to hopefully hearing about the "closet equipment". Maybe it will be a SX-1980 for $200!


----------



## Silent One

jgreen16 said:


> lugbug1 said:
> 
> 
> > I would also look out for anything classic Sansui. The 70's Sansui sound in general is silky and refined with warmth. I use NAD amps now from the late 70's early 80's and they also have a similar sound to Sansui but are better suited for more sensitive hp's.
> ...


 
 Wait...did I  did we miss out on a holiday give-a-way or some promo?




 Team Sansui


----------



## moodyrn

Big congrats Matt on scoring the 500c. I'm really glad you found one already brought up to spec in good condition. I know some of you might read some of his impressions and think it's just new toy enthusiasm. But I can tell you after owning mine for sometime, I can completely concur with his impressions. Many of you know I'm a macintosh guy now, the only thing that I've owned that surpass every mac component that I've had in my house has been the 500c. My mc2205 edges it out on the musicality scale, but 500c beats it when it comes to everything else except for slam and impact(what can I say 250 watts is 250 watts lol).
  
 That's why I purpose some of my descriptions of other gear with x is one of the best "solid state" amps I've listened to. It's astonishing how much better the 500c is over the x100c I use to own. As for noise floor, not only does it have a deafening background with the hd800, but the background was completely black with the jh13 I use to have and it's my amp of choice with my low impedance, very sensitive w3000anv. It's as quiet as any solid state amp I've ever listen to. The 500c is one piece of gear I would say that every vintage lover or any amp lover should try  at least once. And the 500c paired with my restored quad esl 57 just sounds out of this world sublime. But of course, it needs to be said. It really needs to be brought to spec. So with all of that said, welcome to the club Matt!


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks everyone, especially to Moody for the advice and coaching along the way. Before posting those impressions, I started to take a more conservative approach but it wasn't and isn't how I feel about the 500c. It's a piece of gear that inspires when you listen to it. And I wanted to convey that sense of "kid at Christmas" fun that you get when listening to it.
  
 After listening to the 500c for several more days, it continues to be every bit as impressive. I've been spending a good bit of time with the Alpha Dog through the "earphone" jack and it's a wonderful experience. Moody's description of the Fisher with planar mags and speaker taps has got that best of me and I'll be trying the Alpha Dog on the Fisher with taps soon. I've also had the chance to try a few pre-amps in front of the 500c all with good results. I'm looking for faults with this old receiver but honestly they are hard to come by.
  
 I am looking for "the" pair of vintage speakers to complement the 500c. Moody suggest Klipsch Heresy series so I'm on the lookout. A pair popped up a couple of hours from here but I have not heard back from the seller.
  
 The only project that I have for it is a wood cabinet as it came with none. I plan to use some of my free time over the holiday to built a nice hardwood case for it. Other than that, I just plan to listen and enjoy...


----------



## Xenophon

Congratulations Matt, I'm green with envy.  Enjoy it!


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thank you and I certainly will. I'd love for more people to get to hear the 500c and when the next Canlanta rolls around I'll certainly be bringing it.


----------



## levlhed

No, I just have a lead on some unknown "stereo equipment" that belonged to a former co-worker's husband.  She's recently retired, probably in her mid to late 60's.  She says it is "good stuff", but who knows if she has any clue what "good stuff" even really is?  I will probably be going by her place tomorrow to see if it is anything worth anything.  I doubt she's thinking of giving it to me for free, but I'm also sure she has no idea what anything is worth.  I've no intention of taking advantage....not too much anyway.
  
 *Hoping* to come away with a score, but I guess more will be revealed...........


----------



## levlhed

I went over there this eve, sorry to report what I found was a circa 1999 Yamaha A/V Receiver and a small Jensen powered-sub/satellite speakers-in-a-box.
  
 Not even close.


----------



## captouch

matttcg said:


> Thanks everyone, especially to Moody for the advice and coaching along the way. Before posting those impressions, I started to take a more conservative approach but it wasn't and isn't how I feel about the 500c. It's a piece of gear that inspires when you listen to it. And I wanted to convey that sense of "kid at Christmas" fun that you get when listening to it.
> 
> After listening to the 500c for several more days, it continues to be every bit as impressive. I've been spending a good bit of time with the Alpha Dog through the "earphone" jack and it's a wonderful experience. Moody's description of the Fisher with planar mags and speaker taps has got that best of me and I'll be trying the Alpha Dog on the Fisher with taps soon. I've also had the chance to try a few pre-amps in front of the 500c all with good results. I'm looking for faults with this old receiver but honestly they are hard to come by.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Matt, a couple of thoughts on vintage speakers. . .
  
 If you just want smooth, musical sound in a relatively cheap and compact form factor, check out Dynaco A25's.  This is what I'm using in my office setup with a restored Fisher KX-100.  It has what I would consider to be a classic vintage sound - warm and musical.  My only "hesitation" is that the inherent color of the speakers might not reveal 100% of the "holographic" nature of the 500C - their being forgiving probably also means they're not the most transparent.  These typically run in the $150-200 range at market value, but you might stumble across some for much cheaper if you get lucky.
  
 On the other end of the spectrum is the Yamaha NS-1000/1000M.    http://www.thevintageknob.org/yamaha-NS-1000.html
  
 Yamaha referred to these as large bookshelves, but they're about 26-28" tall and weigh from 68lbs (M version) to 86lbs (non-M version).  Very neutral speaker with beryllium midrange and tweeter and has L-pads to allow you to control the level of these drivers.  It's not a colored speaker at all, but the positive is that instruments sound like the real thing, not a colored version of it. Great air, transparency, and that would probably fit with the 500C well in terms of revealing everything it has to offer.  Downside is that it doesn't look classically vintage and it's much more expensive ($700-1000 ballpark for the black M version, and $1000-1500 for the ebony wood non-M version).  For a main system, could be a great option if you don't mind the looks.  For a secondary/office system, it would most likely be overkill.  If you want the walnut look, the NS-690 has a more traditional look.  No Be drivers, but sounds somewhat similar for much cheaper ($250-350 ballpark) - also very well built, weighs about 60lbs, and has the L-pads for tailoring the sound as well.
  
 In terms of vintage, I've been through Wharfedales (W70E's), KLH (20's/17's), Realistic (Nova 6's), ESS (AMT-1b), and the above appealed to me the most.  Of course, tastes are very subjective.
  
 That being said, a pair of Klipsch Forte's with ALK crossovers (not owned by me though) sounded very awesome to me as well.  But stock Forte's sounded a bit harsh.  I haven't heard Heresy's, but you might need to do some work on them (crossover upgrades, Ti diaphragms) to get them sounding their best.
  
 Good luck with your search.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ Thank you kindly for the information. I did hear back from the Klipsch seller and plan to go out and give those a listen to see how they sound and look. If that trip proves fruitless, I'll look into the Yammies.


----------



## vocalstrance

I have been wanting a pair of the dynaco A25's to replace my rockford fosgate 3 way 6x9's and then get the Bob Latino ST-120. Most of my listening is near field, while i turn up the volume sometimes to listen to the music as I walk about my house in other rooms. I hope this will fulfill my need for power and clarity. My current cheap Fischer amp hums like a beast.


----------



## captouch

vocalstrance said:


> I have been wanting a pair of the dynaco A25's to replace my rockford fosgate 3 way 6x9's and then get the Bob Latino ST-120. Most of my listening is near field, while i turn up the volume sometimes to listen to the music as I walk about my house in other rooms. I hope this will fulfill my need for power and clarity. My current cheap Fischer amp hums like a beast.




I'm not sure you need a ST-120 with A25's - seems like overkill. Many receivers/integrateds will sound good with the A25 - they're pretty forgiving speakers based on my experience.

But the ST-120 will nevertheless be nice and can be used for higher end speakers later as needed. You probably just won't hear its full potential with the A25's.


----------



## Trav

I'm on my second pair of A 25's. The first set I ran off a 3 WPC SET and was impressed. Second set paired with (stacked) NHT Super Zero 2.1 paired with Sansui 881 has given me a "subjective" near Zen experience vs money spent. YMMV.


----------



## captouch

trav said:


> I'm on my second pair of A 25's. The first set I ran off a 3 WPC SET and was impressed. Second set paired with (stacked) NHT Super Zero 2.1 paired with Sansui 881 has given me a "subjective" near Zen experience vs money spent. YMMV.


 
  
 The A25's are special speakers, for sure.
  
 Back to the topic of vintage receivers. . .
  
 I'm likely going to add a nice Sony STR-6060F to the stable.  I'm planning on having it recapped before I lay hands on it, so it'll be awhile until I have my own pictures.  As posted earlier, I like the STR-6055 a lot (and it's original/not recapped), so looking forward to hearing what a recapped 6060F sounds like.


----------



## MattTCG

Well, I spent last night till the wee hours with the 500c with the he560 using the speaker taps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Just a wonderful experience in every regard. The Fisher continues to impress with it's versatility and presentation of music. I mentioned before that the 500c was the best amplifier for the hd800, please add he560 to that list (using speaker taps).


----------



## SpeakerBox

Like those cable adapters Matt.  Where did you get them?


----------



## MattTCG

speakerbox said:


> Like those cable adapters Matt.  Where did you get them?


 
  
 Hand made by a guy over in Alabama. Nice guy...


----------



## Anda

matttcg said:


> Well, I spent last night till the wee hours with the 500c with the he560 using the speaker taps.


 
  
 Do you have resistors in parallel to get the right impedance (I suppose the 500c uses output transformers)?


----------



## guitarpicker

have this amp 20$ tx And 7100...with jbl 4411 and L200b...sounds sweet remaber that sound from sx 100o amp i long lost ...sound stage is awesome .


----------



## 5aces

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649158310-klipsch-forte-original-mint-condition/ + used tube amplifier = not disappointed.


----------



## captouch

matttcg said:


> ^^ Thank you kindly for the information. I did hear back from the Klipsch seller and plan to go out and give those a listen to see how they sound and look. If that trip proves fruitless, I'll look into the Yammies.




Matt, did you check out the Heresy's? Thoughts?


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I passed on going out to check on the Klipsch. The price was on the high end and when I asked if the guy had any wiggle room on the price he snapped at me. I took it as a sign that these weren't meant to be.
  
 Most every person that I've ever dealt with on vintage gear has been incredibly nice and gracious. I'd rather spend my time talking to and dealing with those people than the one bad apple.


----------



## LugBug1

I've never met a nice down to earth hifi salesman yet... On top of the body odour (yes they all have this as well) most of them would throw their Granny in for a quick sale. I'm a bit soft when looking for a deal and as a result I've bought 3 Granny's, two Mothers and a cat called Margaret over the years.... Best to buy off tinternet - much safer and easier!


----------



## MattTCG

lugbug1 said:


> I've never met a nice down to earth hifi salesman yet... On top of the body odour (yes they all have this as well) most of them would throw their Granny in for a quick sale. I'm a bit soft when looking for a deal and as a result I've bought 3 Granny's, two Mothers and a cat called Margaret over the years.... Best to buy off tinternet - much safer and easier!


 
  
 lol...I'd much rather buy from an individual who has cared for the old vintage stuff and has a genuine interest in seeing his items go to a good home.


----------



## SpeakerBox

A pair of Sherwood receivers (Left: S-7200 Right: S-7100A)


----------



## analogsurviver

lugbug1 said:


> I've never met a nice down to earth hifi salesman yet... On top of the body odour (yes they all have this as well) most of them would throw their Granny in for a quick sale. I'm a bit soft when looking for a deal and as a result I've bought 3 Granny's, two Mothers and a cat called Margaret over the years.... Best to buy off tinternet - much safer and easier!


 
 A friend of mine christened one fitting specimen with a most fitting name : _ISellYouMyMother - _in our language, but I kid you not!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I just went through a process where I learned first hand the importance of proper bias adjustment, and the impact on the sound it can have.  I had noticed that one of my Rowland M1s was running very hot (the one on top).  With Mr. Rowland's guidance (JRDG has a site where you can post requests for help) I decided to go ahead and adjust both units to his recommended bias settings.  I now have all four channels set within 1 or 2mv of 30mv.  And yes - the top unit is now running cooler.  But that is not the biggest surprise.  When I hooked things back up I immediately was struck by a significant increase in micro detail and transparency.  It was a breathtaking change!  So much so that my son (he is a musician) who almost never really comments on the sound of my system stood up and said "Doesn't that sound awesome!".  When I think about it I should not be too surprised I guess - given that these are being run as a bridged mono pair, the two channels in each amp have to be in sync as they are strapped together producing twice the voltage and current as they normally would.  If the bias settings are different (and they were by 10mv or more) the two channels will end up fighting each other to some extent.  Anyway, I am one happy audiophile right now.  Thought I would share my experience with you all.


----------



## magiccabbage

Hi guys. 
  
 I am wondering if any of you would be interested in compiling list of maybe 10 of the best vintage receivers. Not looking for a best ever or anything.
  
 Next year I would like to try one and am wondering what to look out for


----------



## MattTCG

I can only offer on the ones that I've owned. Moody can make a better list. 

1. Fisher 500c

2. Pioneer sx1280

3. Sansui 9090

4. Pioneer sx 1050

5. Pioneer sx 1080


----------



## SpeakerBox

A good start would be:
  
 Fisher 500C
 Pioneer SX-1980
 Pioneer SX-1250
 Sansui G-9000


----------



## magiccabbage

matttcg said:


> I can only offer on the ones that I've owned. Moody can make a better list.
> 
> 1. Fisher 500c
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks, Ill check those out.


----------



## magiccabbage

that Sansui 9090 is lovely


----------



## PhoenixG

I'd like to throw the MAC 4100 and the Sony STR-6120 (or str-6200 - same amp essentially) into the ring


----------



## magiccabbage

Anyone hear this, its beautiful looking


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> A good start would be:
> 
> Fisher 500C
> Pioneer SX-1980
> ...




Add to this the Sansui G-22000/33000, Marantz 2500/2600/2385, Yamaha CR-2020, and that's THE list from my perspective...although I'm sure there is a Kenwood that belongs in the list too like maybe the KR-9600.


----------



## jgreen16

I'd also suggest the Marantz 2330B. Not quite the high power (or high $) of the 2500/2600/2385 but still a nice sounding and looking receiver.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Originally Posted by *SpeakerBox* 



 A good start would be:

 Fisher 500C
 Pioneer SX-1980
 Pioneer SX-1250
 Sansui G-9000
  


skylab said:


> Add to this the Sansui G-22000/33000, Marantz 2500/2600/2385, Yamaha CR-2020, and that's THE list from my perspective...although I'm sure there is a Kenwood that belongs in the list too like maybe the KR-9600.


 
  
 I guess this would be the Sky-Box list


----------



## DemonFox

speakerbox said:


> Originally Posted by *SpeakerBox*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Speaking of the SX-1250...
  
 I may or may not have a good beat on one  
  
 What would you guys consider a fair price for it? Fully functional lights and all. Could use a nice bath but outside of that its in great shape.
  
  
 Thanks,


----------



## LugBug1

magiccabbage said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> I am wondering if any of you would be interested in compiling list of maybe 10 of the best vintage receivers. Not looking for a best ever or anything.
> 
> Next year I would like to try one and am wondering what to look out for


 
 Since I know you have the HD800 I'll have to add some NAD's in that list as well  Great match with the Senn's. Try 3020 or 3225PE for size. 
  
 Most vintage amps that I've tried (see my profile) with the Senn's have sounded great with extra bass and fullness, but this 'wow effect' only lasted a while with me as I ended up wanting a more balanced sound whilst keeping the refined sweetness that only vintage amps have. The NAD's are better matched for impedance and don't have any bloat effect on the lower FR (and completely black background which is rare with vintage and sensitive hp's). They also have a very sweet and slightly warm tone. My favorite pairing so far with the HD800.
  
 The only problem with vintage NAD is that they look dull as very dull dishwater... So you may want to buy a dazzling Pioneer/Marantz to hide it behind haha. 
  
 If you are going a speaker route- ignore all the above and go all-out Pioneer! Or Sansui


----------



## Oregonian

demonfox said:


> Speaking of the SX-1250...
> 
> I may or may not have a good beat on one
> 
> ...


 

 Great choice bud.  I got a SX-1050 in mint shape for $400 off craigslist.  The 1250 would bring a little more but that'll give you a starting point on price.


----------



## wotts

demonfox said:


> Speaking of the SX-1250...
> 
> I may or may not have a good beat on one
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I picked mine up for $600. It was a little rough on the face and the antenna was broken. The seller gave me a replacement piece though. One channel has gone scratchy on me after it runs for a while - the heat sinks get hot too. It really needs to visit a tech.
  
 At the time, I thought I got a decent price, but for what it will cost in repairs, I should have paid the $1000-1200 for a restored unit. I see them on AK from time to time.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I paid $335 for my 1250 at a pawn shop.  Was un-restored and had a broken balance control.  I have invested another $200 - $300 hundred doing a recap, fixing the balance, and cleaning it up.


----------



## SpeakerBox

wotts said:


> I picked mine up for $600. It was a little rough on the face and the antenna was broken. The seller gave me a replacement piece though. One channel has gone scratchy on me after it runs for a while - the heat sinks get hot too. It really needs to visit a tech.
> 
> At the time, I thought I got a decent price, but for what it will cost in repairs, I should have paid the $1000-1200 for a restored unit. I see them on AK from time to time.


 
  
 The heat sinks should get hot with the bias adjusted to spec (approximately 100mv if I remember correctly).  If it is burn your hand hot the bias may be part of your problem.  You may want to think about adjusting it youself as the service manual is available on line (don't use a metal adjustment tool though unless you like smoke).


----------



## magiccabbage

Thanks for all the replies guys - I have taken note of everything mentioned.


----------



## levlhed

Fisher 500C is not Solid State


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> I guess this would be the Sky-Box list




LOLOL!!! Good one


----------



## MattTCG

The Fisher 500c is up for sale on AG with make an offer available.


----------



## moodyrn

levlhed said:


> Fisher 500C is not Solid State







He didn't list solid state as a criteria. Speaking specifically of vintage receivers. I will list only the ones I've owned I order of preference.

Fisher 500c
Sansui g-9000
Pioneer sx-1250
Sansui 9090db
Pioneer sx-1280
Marantz 2330b
Kenwood kr-9600
Pioneer sx-1010
Marantz 2325

2-8 are not far apart and overal on same playing field. And each one have strengths and weaknesses over the other. Although I've never owned the Mac 4100, it's essentially an ma6200 with a tuner. That one it did own, and assuming they both sound the same, I would put it number two, behind the fisher.

Also don't think that I don't like the 2325. I like it very much so, it's just too inconsistent depending what speakers or headphones used. Some sound like crap out of it, and some sound incredible. Everything ranked above it sounds better with a wider variety of speakers/headphones.


----------



## moodyrn

I'll go ahead and list my integrated list as well.

Mcintosh ma6200
Kenwood ka-701
Sansui au-9500
Fisher x-100c
Sansui au-11000
Sansui au-999
Sansui au-517


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I'd love to hear that Mac sometime Moody.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, I painfully sold it. I was using it exclusively for bedroom duties. Now that I have a 16 month old who refuses to sleep I his bed, I wasn't able to enjoy it like I'd hoped. So that left me with the decision to limit my self to two rigs....fisher with quad esl 57/w3000 and mcintosh mc2205/c39 with heavily modded acoustat esl/he6.


----------



## moodyrn

But of course your welcome to come over and listen to its much bigger brother (2205). It's something pretty special.


----------



## MattTCG

moodyrn said:


> But of course your welcome to come over and listen to its much bigger brother (2205). It's something pretty special.


 
  
 I'd love to, so accept your offer. Just got back from 'bama this afternoon. Maybe over winter/xmas break.
  
 Dang, I would have liked to have offered on your Mac.


----------



## analogsurviver

Although my favourite vintage brand, Technics, is not getting in this thread the attention it should deserve,  I can not but link the joyous news : Technics IS BACK :
  
 http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/technics-reborn-and-the-direct-drive-elephant-in-the-room/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-315


----------



## ssrock64

analogsurviver said:


> Although my favourite vintage brand, Technics, is not getting in this thread the attention it should deserve,  I can not but link the joyous news : Technics IS BACK :
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/technics-reborn-and-the-direct-drive-elephant-in-the-room/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-315


 

 To be fair, it's not exactly accurate to say that Technics went away entirely when Panasonic became the dominant brand of their parent group. The name was still used on cheap headphones, among other electronics, up until today.
  
 Still, if Panasonic is serious about bringing the brand back as a big player, that's really good news.


----------



## analogsurviver

ssrock64 said:


> To be fair, it's not exactly accurate to say that Technics went away entirely when Panasonic became the dominant brand of their parent group. The name was still used on cheap headphones, among other electronics, up until today.
> 
> Still, if Panasonic is serious about bringing the brand back as a big player, that's really good news.


 
 They obviously ARE serious. Two price levels, to which Technics should have adhered to from day one, that is to say reference level ( 40 K Euro ) and still serious one at one tenth the cost - and both feature the best thing from Technics ever, that is to say coaxial driver(s) in both speaker systems.
  
 And please, PLEASE, no plastic fantastic toys this time; NEVER below certain level of quality - if Technics have built its better>top designs not to a price point but to "good enough to last as #1", some 90 % of other equipment would have been completely superfluos. Hope they find performance/price/value/staying power ratio right this time ... - even if it means relinquishing  Second To None philosophy and settling for #2, but with a price/performance unattainable by others. It could mean serious advance in quality of reproduced sound at not too exhorbitant cost for a dedicated listener.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> The Fisher 500c is up for sale on AG with make an offer available.




What? YOUR new 500C???


----------



## LugBug1

analogsurviver said:


> Although my favourite vintage brand, Technics, is not getting in this thread the attention it should deserve,  I can not but link the joyous news : Technics IS BACK :
> 
> http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/technics-reborn-and-the-direct-drive-elephant-in-the-room/?utm_campaign=Hi-Fi%2B+Weekly+Emails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-315


 
 Yes I was reading about this recently in my classical music mag. Jazz pianist and former Technics engineer Michiko Ogawa is director of the new project. 
  

  
 It all looks very positive imo. I've always liked Technics.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> The Fisher 500c is up for sale on AG with make an offer available.


 
 Ok my friend I'll pay the full 500c (cents?) for the Fisher


----------



## MattTCG

oregonian said:


> What? YOUR new 500C???


 
  
 ROFL...no way brother, no way. That one is not restored btw.
  
 Ah, now I see how my poor wording could have been misunderstood. I should have said, A Fisher is up for sale not The Fisher...


----------



## levlhed

Ok, I got a line on a nice Marantz 1060.  I should have it next week.  I plan to get it completely re-capped right away now because in the meantime I picked up a stock Marantz 2230.  I was simply dying to hear what all the fuss is about.  Just got it this afternoon, listening to it now.  I gotta admit I hear the potential in this thing with my T1's.  It is real close to being super sweet, I keep getting glimpses of it anyway.
  
 But I can't say that in its current state (un-restored) it overtakes my Leben CS300XS, and the phono pre on this 2230 definitely needs attention....internet radio streams via the aux-in sound better than the phono and that just can't be right.  I'm coming from a Sutherland PhD phono pre, I'm really wondering now if a fully re-capped 2230/1060 can even come close. I hope it can, even if it is "close enough" I'd probably sell the Sutherland.


----------



## Silent One

_You're on the move_...that's great to hear! Hope it works out for you, levlhed.


----------



## captouch

levlhed said:


> Ok, I got a line on a nice Marantz 1060.  I should have it next week.  I plan to get it completely re-capped right away now because in the meantime I picked up a stock Marantz 2230.  I was simply dying to hear what all the fuss is about.  Just got it this afternoon, listening to it now.  I gotta admit I hear the potential in this thing with my T1's.  It is real close to being super sweet, I keep getting glimpses of it anyway.
> 
> But I can't say that in its current state (un-restored) it overtakes my Leben CS300XS, and the phono pre on this 2230 definitely needs attention....internet radio streams via the aux-in sound better than the phono and that just can't be right.  I'm coming from a Sutherland PhD phono pre, I'm really wondering now if a fully re-capped 2230/1060 can even come close. I hope it can, even if it is "close enough" I'd probably sell the Sutherland.


 
  
 Quite a difference in price between the Leben and Marantz, plus it's tubes vs SS.  Wouldn't be surprised if the 1060/2230 don't quite reach the level of the Leben.
  
 Will you have it recapped by someone else?  Already know what kind of caps you're going to use?  There's someone on AK called patfont that has done a lot of experimentation and A/B-ing of different caps in those units.  You may want to look that up.  He has, from time to time, also sold kits of complete sets of caps (plus a few transistors and diodes thrown in) for a very fair price.  I've recapped two 1060's and the second one, I opted to just buy one of his kits.  The nice thing is he separates all the caps by board and even pre-bent the component leads to fit in the PCB's.  It made things very easy and saved a lot of time - I don't think he does this regularly though - just when he has excess component inventory.  Just a thought.
  
 Good luck and enjoy the Marantz units.


----------



## levlhed

Yeah, I guess I don't mean to imply that I expect to unseat the Leben just yet with this part of the plan.  My thinking is if can get close enough to get by for a bit, I'll sell the Leben to finance a jump up the SS pole.  I feel like I need to get away from stressing over tubes for awhile.


----------



## levlhed

Oh and regarding the re-cap work, I've found another fella via AK that is within driving distance.


----------



## SpeakerBox

IMHO - I have found the Marantz 2230 to be a bit overrated.  I have recapped several of them and ended up selling them all.  For me the detailed sound signature I was looking for just was not there.  That said there are many people out there that just love these things - so to each his own.


----------



## Skylab

Same for me with the 2270 and 2285. I liked them, and I loved the way they looked, but I never loved the way they sounded. I guess I just prefer the late 70's Pioneer sound over the late 70's Marantz sound.


----------



## levlhed

I do have my sights on a bigger Pioneer next if things go like I expect.  We'll see how things go.  I get that some people don't care for the Marantz sound.
 I don't mind it, but I suspect I'll like Pioneer better.
  
 Tonight I hooked up a Koss T-5 Junction Box.  When I saw pictures of it I knew what it was...a retro headphone speaker tap.  Got it delivered today and sure enough.  Kinda groovy lookin'...seems to do the job. For $25 it was worth the gamble.
 I might have my electronics buddy modify it with nicer components, or just build me a nicer one.
  
 T1's are doing their thing, I'm not sure if the *quality* of the sound is any different yet though.


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> I guess I just prefer the late 70's Pioneer sound over the late 70's Marantz sound.


 
 +1...except I prefer mid 70's Pioneer....
  

  
 Happy Thanksgiving all!


----------



## Oregonian

Happy Thanksgiving to the best group of guys on this board hands down.........eat too much and enjoy the great football with family (assuming the family you like is coming over!).


----------



## Skylab

You too, and happy thanksgiving to the rest of you cool dudes!!!


----------



## Silent One

To the wonderful cast of members here..."Happy Thanksgiving!"
  
 - Team Sansui


----------



## wotts

oregonian said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to the best group of guys on this board hands down.........eat too much and enjoy the great football with family (assuming the family you like is coming over!).


 
  
  


skylab said:


> You too, and happy thanksgiving to the rest of you cool dudes!!!


 
  
  


silent one said:


> To the wonderful cast of members here..."Happy Thanksgiving!"
> 
> - Team Sansui


----------



## ssrock64

levlhed said:


>


 
 With a little internal modification, that'll fit right in and sound the part, too. That's a really neat find, especially in the box like that.


----------



## moodyrn

I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving! Mine was bitter sweet. I had a heart attack scare last weekend and spent a couple of days in the hospital. The doctor put me on a strict diet just in time for Thanksgiving....the holiday where I usually abuse one of the seven deadly sins lol. Well, I guess that finally caught up with me. But the little I did eat was oh so good.


----------



## Rossliew

Hope you guys had a splendid time during Thanksgiving! Now, can anyone advise if the Pioneer SX 880 is a good amp to buy for headphone use? Mostly with the HD600 and possibly a planar in future, not discounting the HE6


----------



## Silent One

@ moodyrn
 It's great to learn you got through it. And hopefully spent quality time around those you love and/or care about.


----------



## Cosmonaut

What would the Pioneer equivalent of a Marantz 2220-2235 be, in terms of performance and/or price. Or any other comparable integrated amps/receivers from other brands. Basically I'm looking to upgrade for 300-400.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving! Mine was bitter sweet. I had a heart attack scare last weekend and spent a couple of days in the hospital. The doctor put me on a strict diet just in time for Thanksgiving....the holiday where I usually abuse one of the seven deadly sins lol. Well, I guess that finally caught up with me. But the little I did eat was oh so good.




Thoughts and prayers with you bud.


----------



## Xenophon

moodyrn said:


> I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving! Mine was bitter sweet. I had a heart attack scare last weekend and spent a couple of days in the hospital. The doctor put me on a strict diet just in time for Thanksgiving....the holiday where I usually abuse one of the seven deadly sins lol. Well, I guess that finally caught up with me. But the little I did eat was oh so good.


 

 No thanksgiving tradition here but all the best to those in the US and take care moodryn, be gently to yourself, listen to some music and errr...take a look at that list of deadly sins, there's a couple others that might be fun but easier on the blood triglycerides.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving! Mine was bitter sweet. I had a heart attack scare last weekend and spent a couple of days in the hospital. The doctor put me on a strict diet just in time for Thanksgiving....the holiday where I usually abuse one of the seven deadly sins lol. Well, I guess that finally caught up with me. But the little I did eat was oh so good.




Moody my friend I sincerely hope you make a full and speedy recovery!!!! Our thoughts and prayers are with you. 




cosmonaut said:


> What would the Pioneer equivalent of a Marantz 2220-2235 be, in terms of performance and/or price. Or any other comparable integrated amps/receivers from other brands. Basically I'm looking to upgrade for 300-400.




Look for a SX-880 or 980 if you can land a nice one for that price. SX-850 or 950 as well.


----------



## SpeakerBox

@Moody - hope you will be OK.  I had a similar issue a few years back.  Very high blood pressure and was overweight - lots of stress.  My heart started beating irregularly and they said I had mild ischemia.  I started walking regularly and now am a runner.  Lost the weight and heart is working better - but have to watch the blood pressure still.  I really ate some bad stuff on Thanksgiving though.  Take care of yourself.


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm doing much better now. As long as I do what the doc says, I should be fine. But I must say, I really do miss my bacon lol.


----------



## parbaked

cosmonaut said:


> What would the Pioneer equivalent of a Marantz 2220-2235 be, in terms of performance and/or price. Or any other comparable integrated amps/receivers from other brands. Basically I'm looking to upgrade for 300-400.


 
 Look for a Pioneer SA-7100 / 8100 / 9100 circa 1974.

  
 These are very fine amps...


----------



## nick n

THANKYOU BLACK FRIDAY.
 Out for a walk and this was left under a streetlight. Sony STR-2800 = MASSIVE. Needs a good external clean but otherwise in nice shape, not tried it letting room temperature do it's work. A bit damp with our one-time smattering of 1 cm yearly snow on the ground. Can't have been out there for more than an hour, and the person was considerate enough to leave it on it's side on a snow-clear metal access lid.
 Guess some research is in order now. Might not even be worth the bother of a clean, but I *am* curious.
http://stereonomono.blogspot.ca/2014/02/sony-str-2800.html
  
 Nice black metal top, side panels are "wood".
 Size next to an IHIFI 812V2.
 Hey free is always great. I can always go through it check things out and gift it .


----------



## PhoenixG

Moody - best wishes and get well soon!
  
 nick n - can't beat free. hope you like it and welcome to team sony.
 Quote:


nick n said:


> THANKYOU BLACK FRIDAY.
> Out for a walk and this was left under a streetlight. Sony STR-2800 = MASSIVE. Needs a good external clean but otherwise in nice shape, not tried it letting room temperature do it's work. A bit damp with our one-time smattering of 1 cm yearly snow on the ground. Can't have been out there for more than an hour, and the person was considerate enough to leave it on it's side on a snow-clear metal access lid.
> Guess some research is in order now. Might not even be worth the bother of a clean, but I *am* curious.
> http://stereonomono.blogspot.ca/2014/02/sony-str-2800.html
> ...


----------



## Terja

parbaked said:


> cosmonaut said:
> 
> 
> > What would the Pioneer equivalent of a Marantz 2220-2235 be, in terms of performance and/or price. Or any other comparable integrated amps/receivers from other brands. Basically I'm looking to upgrade for 300-400.
> ...


 
  
 Can vouch for the 70s Pioneer SA-s. Nice pic ... simply beautiful!


----------



## buson160man

parbaked said:


> Look for a Pioneer SA-7100 / 8100 / 9100 circa 1974.
> 
> 
> These are very fine amps...


 

  Those old pioneers integrated amps sure look pretty in their wood cases.


----------



## LugBug1

All the best Moody, sometimes a fright like that can be a blessing in disguise... Look after yourself buddy we don't wanna lose you!!!
  
  
 (look into Taurine as a supplement -great for repairing your heart.)


----------



## atbglenn

My old Advent receiver driving a Macintosh 2205 Power Amp


----------



## Terja

atbglenn said:


> My old Advent receiver driving a Macintosh 2205 Power Amp


 
  
 Umm ... is that a vintage photo (tongue in cheek ..)??


----------



## atbglenn

terja said:


> Umm ... is that a vintage photo (tongue in cheek ..)??


 
 Sure is. I still own the Teac 2300S


----------



## levlhed

Skylab, I'd be interested in your thoughts on your SX-1980 vs. your Leben for headphone use.  Would you care to expound upon this subject?  Or point me to where you may have already covered this...
 I doubt I could ever find/afford an SX-1980, but I could see something like a 1250 or 1280 in my future...but to get there I'll have to sell my Leben CS300XS! ugh


----------



## moodyrn

In the process of packing the au9500 to ship to a new home, I remebered I didn't update the sansui battle with the 9500 completed. To keep it short, I was really impressed with the end result of the restored au999. I thought it surpassed a stock 9500 which I loved. So now that the 9500 is done, how did it fair against the 999? Well to put it short, a restored au9500 approaches a Mac 6200, but not quiet matching it. I would put it on the same playing field of an sx1250, narrowing edging an sx1280. So yeah, it beats a restored au999 IMO. The thing that surprised me the most was how much more neutral it sounded. The au9500 is known to be one of the warmest sansui. But I would say the tone of the restored one is just a little warm, similar to an sx1250. Here's a few pics. I did also repaint all of the covers, internal and external.


----------



## moodyrn

I did replace all of the transistors on the preamp board(about 15 total). I bought it as a parts repair unit. It had a very loud snow static in one of the channels. The previous owner took it to a "professional" repair shop. There was a thread about it over at ak. Now I see why technicians hate to go behind someone else's work. The guy butchered it trying to fix it. There was about 20-25 solder pads completely lifed. Not only that, but the printed foil traces leading to most of them were also gone. I spent almost a week trying to repair all of that. In the end, the problem was a bad transistor at tr711 on the left channel. About a 30min fix. And the worst part is, the repair person charged him labor for messing his amp up. Fixing the mess he made would have cost hundreds in labor hours which is probably why he just simply cut his losses. I also replaced a couple of key caps with film on the preamp board. The preamp part is now as good as a stand along preamp.


----------



## Skylab

levlhed said:


> Skylab, I'd be interested in your thoughts on your SX-1980 vs. your Leben for headphone use.  Would you care to expound upon this subject?  Or point me to where you may have already covered this...
> I doubt I could ever find/afford an SX-1980, but I could see something like a 1250 or 1280 in my future...but to get there I'll have to sell my Leben CS300XS! ugh




Unless the headphones your love don't do well with the Leben, I would NOT sell the Leben in favor of the SX-1980 for purely headphone use. The 1980 is outstanding with headphones - but the Leben gets the nod for most cans. The HiFiMan HE-6 is one exception - here the 1980 is much better. 

I use the 1980 mostly for speakers, where it is absolutely fabulous.


----------



## levlhed

Thank you for the perspective, dude.


----------



## SirMarc

Any thoughts on a nikko 6065 with senn hd580's? Looks like I can pick up a nice one locally for cheap. Been using a denon dra835r from the early nineties with pretty good results. Any thoughts? Thanks
Marc


----------



## SirMarc

Also see a Harmon kardon hk670 for a lot more at 249. Thoughts? Thanks


----------



## kokushu

I was wondering if you guys could help me with a question.  I have the yamaha ca 1010 and the kef ls50 speaker.  I was wondering what is the advantage and disadvantage of running it in preamp mode or power mode.  I also have the woo audio 5 but my setup have it hard to make a comparative a/b.  If anybody know how good the woo audio speaker implement.


----------



## harrinj

sirmarc said:


> Also see a Harmon kardon hk670 for a lot more at 249. Thoughts? Thanks




The 670 is a really nice sounding receiver. Mine cost $250 too. I like it.


----------



## SirMarc

How would it compare to a sansui g5500? Saw one listed in my area for 125.


----------



## SirMarc

I guess the better question, if one of the gurus can answer, is will a 70's receiver sound better then my late 80's-early 90's one notch down from totl denon receiver I'm using now. It's a dra 835r, that if I'm remembering correctly, cost me 1200ish. I talked my wife into getting me an asgard 2 for Christmas, but now I'm considering a more vintage receiver. Just don't want to make a lateral move or even a decrease in sound quality. For the record I do 90% of my listening through my sennheiser hd580's and 10% to my dahlquist dq20's. Thanks
Marc


----------



## SirMarc

harrinj said:


> The 670 is a really nice sounding receiver. Mine cost $250 too. I like it.


thanks, Going nuts trying to decide what to do lol


----------



## harrinj

sirmarc said:


> How would it compare to a sansui g5500? Saw one listed in my area for 125.


 
 I don't own any sansui so can't say anything on that but I am sure someone will chime in. The 670 is really good though, you would not be disappointed in it. It's not the best looking H/K but it sounds great!


----------



## SirMarc

Actually I thought it looked pretty cool. Very industrial looking. What phones are you using with it?


----------



## SpeakerBox

I did have a Sansui 5050 for a while - was not impressed.  Not sure how close to the 5500 that is in sonic signature, though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Also had an HK430 and 330A - very nice sound from both - warm and detailed.  The 670 is most likely even better.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks for the reply. I may check it out this weekend. Like the way it looks. From some research, looks like it was totl in the late 70's. Just hope it sounds better than my denon with my hd580's...


----------



## nick n

Good for a bump to keep the thread on the first page.
  
  Opened the Sony STR-2800 and insides were extremely clean, cleaner than a lot of new stuff I have seen.
  Pics for fun.

  

  
 Still not gotten around to trying it out too busy


----------



## Oregonian

How much do you think one of these is worth? SA-8800 integrated amplifier.


----------



## Skylab

Between $250-400 depending on condition. Nice piece of kit. I STILL want an SA-9800 someday...


----------



## Oregonian

Thanks, Rob. I should see it tomorrow and likely can get it for $200. 

I am a bit concerned about the wood but that's an easy fix for me.


----------



## moodyrn

skylab said:


> Between $250-400 depending on condition. Nice piece of kit. I STILL want an SA-9800 someday...


 
 So do I. I thought I had an sa9900, but it arrived heavily damaged.


----------



## harrinj

sirmarc said:


> Thanks for the reply. I may check it out this weekend. Like the way it looks. From some research, looks like it was totl in the late 70's. Just hope it sounds better than my denon with my hd580's...




It was their TOTL. It's got two indicator lights above the power switch to indicate both amps are on. I like the way it looks too but the 430-930 I think is their best looking receivers. If you ever find their early 80's receivers HK490i and HK795i those were good too and they have a neat style.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> How much do you think one of these is worth? SA-8800 integrated amplifier.


 
 I saw this too and wondered why it wasnt gone. The last one I saw on CL was $1,000.


----------



## Oregonian

Just added the SA-8800 to my stable of vintage amps, and now with its' addition my Pioneer count is up to 5 systems.  Got it for under $200 so I'm happy - missing one knob which I promptly ordered off eBay.  Everything else is in good shape - the veneer is not great so at some point I'll ask my buddy the woodworker to make me some real walnut sides.  For now............it's awesome. 
  
 The 8800 will now anchor my system in my office - fed by a Yoga2 into a NuForce uDac2 into the 8800, it sounds sweet both out of headphones as well as through a Scoche adapter feeding my Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers with a sub.


----------



## harrinj

Way to go! It looks great!


----------



## MattTCG

oregonian said:


> Just added the SA-8800 to my stable of vintage amps, and now with its' addition my Pioneer count is up to 5 systems.  Got it for under $200 so I'm happy - missing one knob which I promptly ordered off eBay.  Everything else is in good shape - the veneer is not great so at some point I'll ask my buddy the woodworker to make me some real walnut sides.  For now............it's awesome.
> 
> The 8800 will now anchor my system in my office - fed by a Yoga2 into a NuForce uDac2 into the 8800, it sounds sweet both out of headphones as well as through a Scoche adapter feeding my Altec Lansing 2.1 speakers with a sub.


 
  
 White keyboards are out.


----------



## Skylab

Nice man!!! Great pick up.


----------



## moodyrn

Nice score. Great deal for getting it under 200.00.


----------



## SirMarc

So, nobody with experience with a denon dra835r? Sounds pretty good with my tube dac and hd580's. Trying to decide between an asgard 2 or a vintage receiver.


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> White keyboards are out.




I go by tactile feel and that keyboard to me is the best on the planet. Whether it is cool or not is immaterial.


----------



## SirMarc

sirmarc said:


> I guess the better question, if one of the gurus can answer, is will a 70's receiver sound better then my late 80's-early 90's one notch down from totl denon receiver I'm using now. It's a dra 835r, that if I'm remembering correctly, cost me 1200ish. I talked my wife into getting me an asgard 2 for Christmas, but now I'm considering a more vintage receiver. Just don't want to make a lateral move or even a decrease in sound quality. For the record I do 90% of my listening through my sennheiser hd580's and 10% to my dahlquist dq20's. Thanks
> Marc


Anybody? Please?


----------



## Skylab

SirMarc, unlike other threads on headfi, this thread isn't full of people who speculate about stuff they've never heard 

At a high level, the odds are a decent 70's receiver will outperform a late 80's mass market receiver. The late 80's wasn't a great period for mass market stuff. But that's just the macro view.

Your unit sounds like it was a good one, though, so it may well be hard to top. No possible way to say without hearing it.


----------



## harrinj

sirmarc said:


> Anybody? Please?


 
 It depends. for example the Asgard 2 will have great sound and zero hiss. Every 70's receiver I have heard has a low level hiss some louder than others unless you get it restored. So if you want great sound and a quiet background then the asgard 2, if you want constant tape hiss like sound and also great sound with plenty of power for headphones then a vintage receiver is a good way to go.


----------



## MattTCG

oregonian said:


> I go by tactile feel and that keyboard to me is the best on the planet. Whether it is cool or not is immaterial.


 
  
 Haha...just giving you a little crap. If you'd like to send you something a little more sheikh, just give me a shout.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks man, appreciate the replies. My denon sounds pretty good, but i want better lol. The 835r is dead quiet with my hd580's. Wish someone who has heard my denon would chime in. I also see a nikko nr719 very close to me on cl. Seems to be well liked on ak. Anyone know about this reciever?


----------



## SirMarc

Man, if I had some of the stuff my dad had in the 70's. He had a tandberg, don't think I'm spelling that right lol, that was just gorgeous, I think an sx1980, and mitsubishi separates that were cool as hell. He even bought me a really nice black Phillips receiver that I loved at the time with ohm L's and a thorens td145, which I still have. Wish I still had the Phillips, remember giving it to a buddy of mine in the 80's.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Having had several upper end Yamaha receivers from the 80s, I am guessing that anything on the Sky-Box list (or Moody's integrated list) would beat the Denon.  But having not heard your Denon I am entering into the speculation zone (Skylab may need to slap me) - so feel free to ignore me.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Having had several upper end Yamaha receivers from the 80s, I am guessing that anything on the Sky-Box list (or Moody's integrated list) would beat the Denon.  But having not heard your Denon I am entering into the speculation zone (Skylab may need to slap me) - so feel free to ignore me. :blink:


Those units would probably wipe the floor with my denon lol, I'm wondering more about the mid level stuff. Don't really want to spend more than 250 or so. On my local cl I see a hk670, nikko nr719, sansui g5500 and a few others. Leaning towards the hk670 or just getting the schiit asgard 2. Decisions decisions...


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> Man, if I had some of the stuff my dad had in the 70's. He had a tandberg, don't think I'm spelling that right lol, that was just gorgeous, I think an sx1980, and mitsubishi separates that were cool as hell. He even bought me a really nice black Phillips receiver that I loved at the time with ohm L's and a thorens td145, which I still have. Wish I still had the Phillips, remember giving it to a buddy of mine in the 80's.


 

  I remember I had a Phillips cd player that was built like a tank. It was heavy as hell and had a cast all metal chassis. It had the ubiquitous td chip in it. I had it a long time. I gave it to my godson . I was surprised to hear much later that he had the I believe it was the cd 881 now that I think of it for about another ten years before it gave up the ghost. They really built units to last back then. Not like the affordable stuff  they make today . Most of the high end stuff today costs a kings ransom and are unattainable for the average  person today . Back then you could save and sacrifice for a bit and you could buy some pretty nice equipment . Not today the cost of high end equipment has soared to prices that make owning them a pipe dream for the average person.
    I sure am glad that headphones have matured to the point where they are today. In fact some of the higher end models can play on a level field and in fact surpass some really esoteric loudspeaker designs. You can assemble a really high end set up for a surprisingly affordable amount with a little bit of  patience and care .


----------



## LugBug1

@ SirMarc, my advice would be to try a few vintage units out. Start at the low end, a Pioneer SX for example - I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the quality of sound from the 70's. Harrinj is right about the hiss, but this also depends on the condition and how loud you listen. I got an acceptable quietness using the very sensitive HD800 with SX Pioneer 550 and Marants 2220 and a couple of 70's Sansui's. But you will not get an absolutely black background like you will from a dedicated amplifier. I've used the HD600 (less sensitive than 800) and they sound amazing with 70's power, so your 580's should respond very well imo.   
  
 Anycase, its a whole lotta fun buying and trying these old warhorses out from the golden age. But there is a lot of luck involved when buying till you know what you are after. So good luck!
  
  
  
 @ Oregonian - Loving the new Pioneer! That will look gorg when you get the wood sorted. I'd love to fix it up myself- I do like playing with wood! (no rude jokes thank you )


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks guys, now I'm thinking about a kenwood kr6600 lol. Alot of stuff listed locally and semi locally on cl...


----------



## SirMarc

Going to go check out the Kenwood kr6600 in an hour. I'm going to bring my headphones to test it. He said he'd hook up some speakers too. Any advice on what I should look for/check out?


----------



## LugBug1

sirmarc said:


> Going to go check out the Kenwood kr6600 in an hour. I'm going to bring my headphones to test it. He said he'd hook up some speakers too. Any advice on what I should look for/check out?


 
 I'm probably a bit late for you but... Check for clarity and any noise (static) when no music is playing - as these are signs it is in good or bad order. Any noise when controls are turned means they need cleaning (this is easy to do).  
  
 If the sound is overly dull then the caps are probably past their best. 
  
 Foremost, only you know if it's gonna be any good for you!


----------



## SirMarc

Picked up a dynaco sca50, sounded really good with my hd580's. Now that I'm home, im not so sure. The soundstage is bigger, and there might be more detail, but i think I'm missing the warmth of the denon. I'm going to put some time in tonight and decide if I'll keep it. I think got a pretty good deal at 180, saw a few online going for between 250-325.


----------



## SirMarc

Think I'm going to have to clean the pots sometimes it gets staticy until I move the volume pot back and forth. Sounds pretty good though. Think I'll keep it.


----------



## Skylab

The SCA-50 is a nice little integrated. I used to have one decades ago. But it's definitely going to need a thorough deoxit treatment of all the pots and switches.


----------



## SirMarc

Do I just pull the knobs off and spray through the front? Or should I pull the cover off? The inside looks surprising clean.


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> Do I just pull the knobs off and spray through the front? Or should I pull the cover off? The inside looks surprising clean.


 
  
 Generally you need to remove covers.  Possibly top and bottom.  You will see small holes or slots in the pots.  I usually set the DeoxIt can to the low spray adjustment so it does not shoot back at me.  After that, with the unit powered off - work the heck out of all controls.  I would do switches too as ones like tape monitor can be dirty and cause one or more channels to drop out.


----------



## parbaked

sirmarc said:


> Do I just pull the knobs off and spray through the front? Or should I pull the cover off? The inside looks surprising clean.


 
 Read this:  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Generally you need to remove covers.  Possibly top and bottom.  You will see small holes or slots in the pots.  I usually set the DeoxIt can to the low spray adjustment so it does not shoot back at me.  After that, with the unit powered off - work the heck out of all controls.  I would do switches too as ones like tape monitor can be dirty and cause one or more channels to drop out.


Cool, thanks man. I'll do it tomorrow. Where do you guys get it? I'm in nj.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Guitar Center carries it.  You want the D5.


----------



## ssrock64

What was inside the SCA50? It looks a whole lot like an integrated version of my PAT-4 on the outside. If they have the same insides for the headphone section, I can understand why you find it lacking warmth. My PAT-4 was always very brassy and dry, which balanced the HD650 and Mad Dogs quite well.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks guys, I'll take a picture tomorrow when I have it apart for cleaning


----------



## henree

I have this NAD 7240 receiver from early eighties. I have not listened to it in well over 5 years. Hooking it up and listening with my he600 headpones. The sound is quite muddled and monotone. I remember it sounding much more dynamic before. What would be the likely culprit for the sound quality? Internal's look good. No sign of leaking. Just a little dusty.


----------



## buson160man

henree said:


> I have this NAD 7240 receiver from early eighties. I have not listened to it in well over 5 years. Hooking it up and listening with my he600 headpones. The sound is quite muddled and monotone. I remember it sounding much more dynamic before. What would be the likely culprit for the sound quality? Internal's look good. No sign of leaking. Just a little dusty.


 
  Parts can age with time. After thirty years you can expect that .Vintage units can become ticking time bombs if they are not restored that can damage speakers when they finally fail . But is it worth having your unit recapped and restored ?  Receivers from back in the seventies were better built than a lot of newer units those newer units would probably not be working after forty years . In the eighties I guess that was when they started cost cutting to increase the profits on units . A friend of mine had a nad integrated back then and it looked a bit like your receiver . It was a pretty decent sounding unit for the time from what I can remember back then.


----------



## LugBug1

henree said:


> I have this NAD 7240 receiver from early eighties. I have not listened to it in well over 5 years. Hooking it up and listening with my he600 headpones. The sound is quite muddled and monotone. I remember it sounding much more dynamic before. What would be the likely culprit for the sound quality? Internal's look good. No sign of leaking. Just a little dusty.


 
 I have a 7230 and love the sound with the HD800. But muddled and monotone it is defo not! I would try giving it a bath in deoxit and see this helps. Spray all pots and switches. This maybe all it needs if it was sounding good before you put it away. Also once you've cleaned it, leave it running for a good while as just like anything that hasn't been used in a long time (cars for e.g) need a while to run in again. 
  
 If it still sounds bad after this I wouldn't get it restored as it would be cheaper to just to get another in good condition. 
  
 NAD is one of my favorite makes and the machines they made from 79 - mid 80's are well worth what they go for these days. Especially for headphone use.


----------



## SirMarc

Holy crap this thing is clean! Even the screws have zero rust! Hope this makes it sound better though, as of now my denon dra835r is better sounding. I'll let you guys know after I clean it. Got the deoxit, pipe cleaners and q tips ready to go...


----------



## SirMarc

Ok, all cleaned up. I'm going to let it sit for a couple hours and give it a shot. Fingers crossed...


----------



## henree

lugbug1 said:


> I have a 7230 and love the sound with the HD800. But muddled and monotone it is defo not! I would try giving it a bath in deoxit and see this helps. Spray all pots and switches. This maybe all it needs if it was sounding good before you put it away. Also once you've cleaned it, leave it running for a good while as just like anything that hasn't been used in a long time (cars for e.g) need a while to run in again.
> 
> If it still sounds bad after this I wouldn't get it restored as it would be cheaper to just to get another in good condition.
> 
> NAD is one of my favorite makes and the machines they made from 79 - mid 80's are well worth what they go for these days. Especially for headphone use.


 
 Thanks 
  
 I may try to recap it myself sometime in the future. This particular unit has a bass EQ button that provides the best lowest frequency I have ever heard. So I don't mind paying for a recap if I cant figure it out myself.


----------



## SirMarc

OK, so I'm listening to the recently cleaned dynaco sca-50 and all scratchyness and channel drop outs are gone, so mission accomplished on that front, but I still think my early 90's denon overall sounds better. Kinda bummed. I think the dynaco has slightly better separation and the soundstage might be a bit bigger, but the denon just sounds a bit more real. Do I need to play this thing for a while to kind of burn it in because its probably been sitting for years? Damn I was afraid of this. May order the Asgard 2 and see how it sounds...


----------



## henree

sirmarc said:


> OK, so I'm listening to the recently cleaned dynaco sca-50 and all scratchyness and channel drop outs are gone, so mission accomplished on that front, but I still think my early 90's denon overall sounds better. Kinda bummed. I think the dynaco has slightly better separation and the soundstage might be a bit bigger, but the denon just sounds a bit more real. Do I need to play this thing for a while to kind of burn it in because its probably been sitting for years? Damn I was afraid of this. May order the Asgard 2 and see how it sounds...


 
 When I bought a servced and cleaned Marantz from the seventies. It sounded good. But after listening to it for a few weeks. It sounded even better. Give it a chance to burn in.


----------



## shabta

I have an old NAD 2150 power amp, which I feed with a Lehmann Black Cube Linear headphone amp and the preamp. It sounds pretty sweet. As for the headphone out, it has more grunt than the lehmann. It's slightly warmer and bassy. But the Lehmann has more air. I like the NAD for rock music and the Lehmann for chamber music and jazz.


----------



## SirMarc

OK, not loving the dynaco at all. I think the caps may be bad. It sounds pretty good and punchy when there's not much going on, but when a song kicks in it gets very fatiguing and mushy sounding. Ordered the Asgard 2 yesterday from prime, I should have it tomorrow. I'm an electro-mechanical tech by trade and I don't want to 'repair' stuff on my off time. Oh well, you live and learn. Hope I can at least make my money back on the unit. Thanks for the help and info guys.
Now if the denon sounds better than the Asgard, I'm really gonna be pissed lol.


----------



## levlhed

Got my Marantz 1060 back from the recap job today.  Only got about 20 hours on the new caps (some upgraded) so I have a little while to go before the real presentation arrives.
 I can't make any formal judgments just yet...but so far so good.


----------



## grokit

levlhed said:


> Got my Marantz 1060 back from the recap job today.  Only got about 20 hours on the new caps (some upgraded) so I have a little while to go before the real presentation arrives.
> I can't make any formal judgments just yet...but so far so good.


 
 Nice setup
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I noticed the KAB PSU, is that their screw-on record clamp?
  
 That's one of the few options of theirs I didn't go for on my MKII.


----------



## levlhed

Thank you!
 No it is some other weight I got somewhere along the way.  I think it is a TTWeight.
 But yes, KAB PSU.  Upgraded bearing, bypassed pitch, Audioquest PT-9 tonearm.


----------



## buson160man

levlhed said:


> Got my Marantz 1060 back from the recap job today.  Only got about 20 hours on the new caps (some upgraded) so I have a little while to go before the real presentation arrives.
> I can't make any formal judgments just yet...but so far so good.


 

 Boy she sure looks pretty the cabinet looks to be in excellent condition. The black face looks pretty nice most examples I have seen are silver.


----------



## analogsurviver

levlhed said:


> Got my Marantz 1060 back from the recap job today.  Only got about 20 hours on the new caps (some upgraded) so I have a little while to go before the real presentation arrives.
> I can't make any formal judgments just yet...but so far so good.


 
 After recaping, the equipment needs a _thorough _burn-in. The safe number after things audibly settle down are approx 200 hours of operation - but it takes longer to really go past any more changes. I usually feed tuner signal and play at normal listening level into some headphones that do not leak too much sound outside and/or place those headphones in a drawer with some clothes over them. 
  
 It has been *long *since I was interested what&how&for how long the sound is changing with burn in ... - all I am interested now is how it works _*after*_ settling down.


----------



## Maverickmonk

Here's where I'm at now. Thought I asked before but I aparently didn't: is it a sin to have a case made for my amp that's not traditional walnut? Cherry would match my speakers and furniture quite well...


----------



## MattTCG

maverickmonk said:


> Here's where I'm at now. Thought I asked before but I aparently didn't: is it a sin to have a case made for my amp that's not traditional walnut? Cherry would match my speakers and furniture quite well...


 
  
 No that's not a sin. What is sinful is those Polk bookshelves with that nice vintage receiver. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I joke of course. I actually own a pair of Polk floorstanders myself. Just can't bring myself to give them up.


----------



## Maverickmonk

matttcg said:


> No that's not a sin. What is sinful is those Polk bookshelves with that nice vintage receiver.    I joke of course. I actually own a pair of Polk floorstanders myself. Just can't bring myself to give them up.




They sound better than the 80's floor stander's they replaced hahah. And with a 3rd floor walk up in a temporary apartment there was a limit to the size I'd go to 

Someday I'll have some Horns though... Someday.


----------



## MattTCG

maverickmonk said:


> They sound better than the 80's floor stander's they replaced hahah. And with a 3rd floor walk up in a temporary apartment there was a limit to the size I'd go to
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Me too brother, me too. Moody has been trying to help get me into some nice vintage Klipsch. Just haven't come across the right pair yet. Soon I hope.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Never been able to warm up to the sound of horns (I hear harshness there and I tend to be very sensitive to it).  The case against horns has always been that they are in essence diffraction factories.  The sound bouncing off the sides of the horn all the way out causing time coherence issues.   That is why you see so many speakers designed with nothing the sound can bounce off of on the way out - smooth surfaces curving away from the driver.   But I know the horn designs have a big following and certainly can't say they would not sound good under certain conditions.  Personal enjoyment is the key!


----------



## MattTCG

speakerbox said:


> Never been able to warm up to the sound of horns (I hear harshness there and I tend to be very sensitive to it).  The case against horns has always been that they are in essence diffraction factories.  The sound bouncing off the sides of the horn all the way out causing time coherence issues.   That is why you see so many speakers designed with nothing the sound can bounce off of on the way out - smooth surfaces curving away from the driver.   But I know the horn designs have a big following and certainly can't say they would not sound good under certain conditions.  Personal enjoyment is the key!


 
  
 Well, it goes without saying that if I bought the Klipsch I'd upgrade the tweeters...right?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Matt - I never doubted that you would always go to what ever lengths were necessary to achieve audio nirvana.


----------



## MattTCG

And neither did I...


----------



## moodyrn

The klipsch ringing is completely gone to my ears with crites upgrades. At least that was the case with the three pairs of klipsch I've owned. Also another thing that reduces ringing to an almost non existent level is replacing the gasket around the horns and in some cases, just tightening the screws around them. But given the modest cost, the crites upgrades are the easiest recommendation for any heritage line klipsch. Not only do they help with ringing, but the Cornwalls I use to own produced some of smoothest, most realistic highs I've heard from a non electrostatic speakers. Infact if it wasn't for both pairs of esl speakers I currently own, I never would have moved beyond vintage klipsch. But of course ymmv.


----------



## photo1257

We gave our daughter our old Pioneer SX 750.  She set it up with her TV...house already wired so she just had to plug it in.  She is trying to figure out if there is a way to hook up a remote control.  Anyone know if this is possible?


----------



## levlhed

See if the TV has a setting for variable line level output.  With that the volume goes up and down with the TV remote instead of being constant full blast line level output.
 Otherwise, you are buying a separate line level attenuation box with a remote.
 I'm assuming you are running an RCA cord from an output on the back of the TV to an aux input on the SX-750.
  
 Coming up on 48 hours of burn-in on my Marantz 1060, getting better and better.


----------



## Oregonian

photo1257 said:


> We gave our daughter our old Pioneer SX 750.  She set it up with her TV...house already wired so she just had to plug it in.  She is trying to figure out if there is a way to hook up a remote control.  Anyone know if this is possible?




Look on eBay for a Chase RLC-1 remote. You can find them for less than $200. I have three of them now on vintage systems. Love them!


----------



## grokit

levlhed said:


> See if the TV has a setting for variable line level output.  With that the volume goes up and down with the TV remote instead of being constant full blast line level output.
> Otherwise, you are buying a separate line level attenuation box with a remote.
> I'm assuming you are running an RCA cord from an output on the back of the TV to an aux input on the SX-750.
> 
> Coming up on 48 hours of burn-in on my Marantz 1060, getting better and better.


 
  
 If the TV has an optical out, it could be hooked up to a DAC with a remotely-operated attenuator as well.


----------



## mike34260

Hey guys I have a quick question for you regarding headphones and amplifier synergy. I own a pair of HD 600, HE-400, and Mad Dogs. While I am aware that planar magnetic cans love vintage gear and the power associated with them, I've heard it's not as simple with dynamic drivers. I'm wondering if the HD 600 generally pairs well with vintage gear. Here are the amps I have at the moment.
  
 Pioneer SA-7800

  
 Kenwood KA-3500

  
 Now I am aware that most people on this thread might not have any experience with these amps. But the headphone outs on both these units have ample power, especially for orthos. I've tried them with the HD 600 and both sound great. But I'm a little curious if it would be worth jumping to a dedicated amp like the Schiit Vali or Asgard 2. I've only had the Senns for a few weeks and I'm trying to get as much as I can out of them. What are your opinions on the matter? Thanks!


----------



## LugBug1

mike34260 said:


> Hey guys I have a quick question for you regarding headphones and amplifier synergy. I own a pair of HD 600, HE-400, and Mad Dogs. While I am aware that planar magnetic cans love vintage gear and the power associated with them, I've heard it's not as simple with dynamic drivers. I'm wondering if the HD 600 generally pairs well with vintage gear. Here are the amps I have at the moment.
> 
> Pioneer SA-7800
> 
> ...


 
 You may get a cleaner, more balanced sound with a dedicated amp but it all depends on what sound you are after. The HD600 are pretty neutral in my book, so if you are after a bit more fullness and bass response then the high impedance powerful vintage amps will give you this. I used to have the Asgard 1 and I personally wouldn't pair it with the 300 ohm hd600, I think it is better suited with lower impedance cans, it was also quite a brightly lit amp. I haven't heard the Vali but I have read that it is a good match the Senn's. Most decent tube amps are. I also think that vintage amps with headphones are very much like tube amps... Only without the messing with tubes! I've never heard a modern SS amp sound tube-like. When I say 'tube-like' I don't mean 'warm' with low level distortions etc, It is the sweet treble and depth of image.    
  
 Because you are coming from vintage to a dedicated amp, you may very well be impressed with the sound. I went from dedicated amps to vintage and I've never looked back. But I love the sound of the 70's in general and am willing to sacrifice a completely black background for a smoother more natural sound (to my ears). 
  
 If someone asked me how I would feed the HD600- My answer would be tubes or vintage


----------



## jring

Hi,
  
 as long as the phones are high impedance (say 200 ohms or higher), most vintage amps will be fine. The point with low impedance headphones is that most vintage amps use the power amp with a resistor as a headphone out and the resistor gives this headphone out a pretty high output impedance which will not work well with low impedance phones.
  
 Joachim


----------



## MattTCG

The Pioneers that I've owned gave me an audible hiss with the hd6x0, but otherwise sounded very nice together. This can usually be eliminated with an annenuator.


----------



## harrinj

Picked up a Pioneer SX-980 last week. It was pretty dirty but it's beautiful now! repainted the rear grill etc. I've replaced all the bulbs but the main bulbs (I have replaced with the correct value 8v 300ma) are turning the clear plastic piece above them white and the middle one is melting the rubber 'AUX' indicator light holder. LED bulbs for some dumb reason are $15 a piece for the main bulbs. If it gets any worse I suppose I'll have to buy the dumb $15x3 LEDs...


----------



## mike34260

lugbug1 said:


> You may get a cleaner, more balanced sound with a dedicated amp but it all depends on what sound you are after. The HD600 are pretty neutral in my book, so if you are after a bit more fullness and bass response then the high impedance powerful vintage amps will give you this. I used to have the Asgard 1 and I personally wouldn't pair it with the 300 ohm hd600, I think it is better suited with lower impedance cans, it was also quite a brightly lit amp. I haven't heard the Vali but I have read that it is a good match the Senn's. Most decent tube amps are. I also think that vintage amps with headphones are very much like tube amps... Only without the messing with tubes! I've never heard a modern SS amp sound tube-like. When I say 'tube-like' I don't mean 'warm' with low level distortions etc, It is the sweet treble and depth of image.
> 
> Because you are coming from vintage to a dedicated amp, you may very well be impressed with the sound. I went from dedicated amps to vintage and I've never looked back. But I love the sound of the 70's in general and am willing to sacrifice a completely black background for a smoother more natural sound (to my ears).
> 
> If someone asked me how I would feed the HD600- My answer would be tubes or vintage


 
 Thank you very much for the info! I started out with a Magni for the HE 400 and initially I thought it was great. Then later on I got the idea to plug my orthos into my vintage gear and was blown away. So I sold the Magni because it just couldn't keep up. Yesterday I bought a Vali so I am anxious to hear it with the Senns, I always wondered what tubes were like so this should be a good entry level amp.


----------



## Skylab

harrinj said:


> Picked up a Pioneer SX-980 last week. It was pretty dirty but it's beautiful now! repainted the rear grill etc. I've replaced all the bulbs but the main bulbs (I have replaced with the correct value 8v 300ma) are turning the clear plastic piece above them white and the middle one is melting the rubber 'AUX' indicator light holder. LED bulbs for some dumb reason are $15 a piece for the main bulbs. If it gets any worse I suppose I'll have to buy the dumb $15x3 LEDs...




Congrats on the 980! Nice piece. That seems odd that the correct bulbs would be melting anything. Are they positioned correctly?


----------



## harrinj

Thank you  Yes they are, The new ones though seem a bit brighter than the one working of the three original ones that were in there.


----------



## MattTCG

Picked up a pair of Tannoy bookshelf speakers on trade today to try out with the 500c. For the size I am very impressed with the quality and signature of these Tannoy's...very.


----------



## Oregonian

So this is so rare I had to post the holy grail of all receivers......................330 wpc - $2995
 
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4804444961.html


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> So this is so rare I had to post the holy grail of all receivers......................330 wpc - $2295
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4804444961.html


 
 I knew it will have to resurface one day; I got to see it in flesh some 5 years ago in a second hand shop in my home town, but never heard it in action.
  
 Technics SA-1000 IS a beast !


----------



## teofilrocks

A local guy has a Pioneer SA-9500 II and wants $295. Total noob when it comes to vintage receivers, but am curious. Some really enjoy listening to headphones from vintage amps. 1) Is this the kind of amp that would work well? 2) Is $295 too high a price for this amp?
  
 Edit: He also has the matching TX-9500 II receiver for $195.


----------



## LugBug1

matttcg said:


> Picked up a pair of Tannoy bookshelf speakers on trade today to try out with the 500c. For the size I am very impressed with the quality and signature of these Tannoy's...very.


 
 I used to have some Tannoys in the 90's, cracking little speakers they were.


----------



## harrinj

oregonian said:


> So this is so rare I had to post the holy grail of all receivers......................330 wpc - $2995
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4804444961.html


 
 I bought a Marantz from this guy and still keep in touch with him from time to time, He told me about this Technics when I emailed him a couple weeks ago. I've been trying to buy a Pioneer he has for months now but he wont let it go for a realistic offer :/


----------



## DanPluck

harrinj said:


> I bought a Marantz from this guy and still keep in touch with him from time to time, He told me about this Technics when I emailed him a couple weeks ago. I've been trying to buy a Pioneer he has for months now but he wont let it go for a realistic offer :/


 
 Nice!  I have an SA-600, which I LED converted on top of a wardrobe.  Cant bring myself to sell it!


----------



## Ninjiaw

i have an old sansui 331 my uncle gave me that i use when i want to listen to my records! and i love it!


----------



## spykez

My dad gave me his Pioneer SX 636 that he bought brand new in I think '76? Used it with my new Pro-Ject Essential II but unfortunately I'm having severe static sound issues on the phono input. Mean time it's hooked up to a DJ Pre II until I can get it fixed. I hate the radio's garbage they play now days but wow, I've never heard a radio station come in as clear as it does on this thing, not even in a car.


----------



## LugBug1

^Congrats, thats a lovely Pioneer. Looks in great shape too!


----------



## ssrock64

spykez said:


> My dad gave me his Pioneer SX 636 that he bought brand new in I think '76? Used it with my new Pro-Ject Essential II but unfortunately I'm having severe static sound issues on the phono input. Mean time it's hooked up to a DJ Pre II until I can get it fixed. I hate the radio's garbage they play now days but wow, I've never heard a radio station come in as clear as it does on this thing, not even in a car.


 
 Has it been serviced or opened up at all in recent years? You're lucky to have a unit in such good shape at that age.


----------



## spykez

It's been sitting in the same spot for probably 15 years until I took it a couple years ago until I got around to getting a turntable. I do plan on getting serviced, going to have them go up and down and all over it.
  
 Someone told me try to use deoxit on the connectors but that requires me taking the whole stereo apart to make sure the left over spray doesn't get onto other stuff and I really don't want to take this thing apart, it's a work of art inside O__O


----------



## Raguvian

Would a Pioneer SA-600 be a good receiver to use with a pair of Grado headphones? Seems like a very vague question, but these vintage receivers are very tempting. There's one for sale for $175, and the seller is also selling an SG-9500 equalizer too for the same price. I was thinking of using my Modi DAC to as an input to the SA-600. Would it be any better than the Magni amp I have now?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Rossliew

Just collected my freshly serviced NAD 3020 Series 20 amp and listening through the hp out with my HD600 - awesome! Has that nice warm, full bodied tone. Definitely very powerful hp out as the volume knob is only around 8 o'clock. With the Grado SR225i, it is sounded pretty decent but i would reckon it sounds better with high ohm cans.


----------



## Oregonian

raguvian said:


> Would a Pioneer SA-600 be a good receiver to use with a pair of Grado headphones? Seems like a very vague question, but these vintage receivers are very tempting. There's one for sale for $175, and the seller is also selling an SG-9500 equalizer too for the same price. I was thinking of using my Modi DAC to as an input to the SA-600. Would it be any better than the Magni amp I have now?
> 
> Thanks!




I think it would be a significant improvement over the Magni, which tho it's good Schiit has no tone controls.........


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> Just collected my freshly serviced NAD 3020 Series 20 amp and listening through the hp out with my HD600 - awesome! Has that nice warm, full bodied tone. Definitely very powerful hp out as the volume knob is only around 8 o'clock. With the Grado SR225i, it is sounded pretty decent but i would reckon it sounds better with high ohm cans.


 
 Great stuff, yes they make great hp amps ime. Does your 3020 have a 'low level' or 'audio muting' button? (not all of them did, think its the 'A' models that don't) only, your Grado's may sound better with the low level on.


----------



## Rossliew

lugbug1 said:


> Great stuff, yes they make great hp amps ime. Does your 3020 have a 'low level' or 'audio muting' button? (not all of them did, think its the 'A' models that don't) only, your Grado's may sound better with the low level on.


 

 Yeah mine has that function. Just switched it on. More play on the volume and sound is less aggressive. Still find the HD600 more musical. Wonder if it will pair well with the T1..


----------



## Rossliew

Trying it with the low impedance HD555 and it sounds...awesome! Have a feeling this amp is built with Sennheisers in mind


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> Trying it with the low impedance HD555 and it sounds...awesome! Have a feeling this amp is built with Sennheisers in mind


 
 Defo, both my HD600 and HD800 sound amazing with my 3020  
  
 The impedance on the NAD's from that era are a lot lower than most 70's amps. I think thats why they work better with different variances.  
  
 And yes, I always have the 'low level' on because you will get a better balance at low listening levels having more freedom of the volume pot.


----------



## Rossliew

lugbug1 said:


> Defo, both my HD600 and HD800 sound amazing with my 3020
> 
> The impedance on the NAD's from that era are a lot lower than most 70's amps. I think thats why they work better with different variances.
> 
> And yes, I always have the 'low level' on because you will get a better balance at low listening levels having more freedom of the volume pot.


 

 That's great to know! I should be on the lookout for other Senn cans then  
  
 Would you have a T1 nearby which you can borrow to have a listen with the 3020?


----------



## LugBug1

rossliew said:


> That's great to know! I should be on the lookout for other Senn cans then
> 
> Would you have a T1 nearby which you can borrow to have a listen with the 3020?


 
 I haven't bud.. The only thing I would say, is that the NAD will defo have enough power and with the slight leaning to warmth it should on paper be a good match. But pinch of salt required


----------



## Rossliew

lugbug1 said:


> I haven't bud.. The only thing I would say, is that the NAD will defo have enough power and with the slight leaning to warmth it should on paper be a good match. But pinch of salt required


 

 Thanks dude! Shall try to source a T1 for a loaner and see how it goes...or else it will back to the tried and tested HD800


----------



## MattTCG

The cabinet for the Fisher is done minus some light sanding and a little poly.


----------



## MattTCG




----------



## MattTCG

The fine light sanding and semi gloss poly will give the cabinet that nice furniture quality finish. I think that I may be the only person on the planet with a solid walnut/hardwood cabinet for my 500c. I must say it feels pretty good.


----------



## BobG55

matttcg said:


> The cabinet for the Fisher is done minus some light sanding and a little poly.


 
  
  


matttcg said:


>


 
  
  


matttcg said:


> The fine light sanding and semi gloss poly will give the cabinet that nice furniture quality finish. I think that I may be the only person on the planet with a solid walnut/hardwood cabinet for my 500c. I must say it feels pretty good.


 
 Hey Matt, good job, great looking cabinet & the 500c looks fantastic.  You *should* feel pretty good.


----------



## LugBug1

^^ Nice! Very nice indeed.


----------



## ssrock64

That's really cool, Matt. Sometimes people get so caught up in the monetary value of their receivers that they're afraid to make them their own, even if the changes they'd make have no effect on the sound (or could even be an upgrade). Props to you for making it your own.


----------



## MattTCG

Thanks guys!! All I can say is that I really like it. Can't wait to get back in town and put the finishing touches on.
  
 Merry Christmas to everyone. Great group of guys on this thread.
  





 (where are the xmas emoticons when you need them?)


----------



## SpeakerBox

matttcg said:


> Thanks guys!! All I can say is that I really like it. Can't wait to get back in town and put the finishing touches on.
> 
> Merry Christmas to everyone. Great group of guys on this thread.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well done on the case Matt - and yes, Merry Christmas to all on the best vintage thread anywhere!


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Well done on the case Matt - and yes, Merry Christmas to all on the best vintage thread anywhere!




Hear hear to both! Matt the case does indeed look awesome, great work. And Merry Christmas to all the awesome folks who haunt this most excellent thread


----------



## Oregonian

matttcg said:


> The fine light sanding and semi gloss poly will give the cabinet that nice furniture quality finish. I think that I may be the only person on the planet with a solid walnut/hardwood cabinet for my 500c. I must say it feels pretty good.


 

 Looks great bud.   Good for you making it unique.   Remember my mantra - stock sucks................
  
 And Merry Xmas to all the great vintage lovers on this thread..................you make Head Fi the best place to visit.


----------



## BGRoberts

A little background:
 I used to send a singing voicemail to over 200 people each Christmas.
 About 16 months ago, I was rushed to the ER. Doctors doubted my survival.  I spent several days in a coma, then several months in multiple hospitals,  I came home just before Christmas 2013 in a hospital bed.  Due to severe nerve damage and paralysis of my tongue, vocal chords, and stomach, I was  unable to drink, eat, talk, sit, or stand.  I was fed through a feeding tube implanted into my body for many months.
 Today, the future looks bright.  I am up and about in a wheelchair and beginning to use a walker and canes  I'm back to rocking the house with my vintage Pioneer 1250SX and Pioneer HPM100s & Snell CIIIs.
 God is AWESOME and blessing me every day!.
 I made this greeting to wish alll my friends a *VERY Merry Christmas*!
 I hope it brings you a smile in this holiday season.


----------



## Oregonian

God bless you man!  Thanks for the uplifting post!  Glad to hear you're on the mend...............


----------



## BobG55

lugbug1 said:


> And yes, I always have the 'low level' on because you will get a better balance at low listening levels having more freedom of the volume pot.


 
 LugBug1 my friend, thanks for pointing that out.  I don't have a Vintage amp with a low level option but my HeadAmp GS-1 does have one.  When I read your posting last night, I switched the level to "low" & Low & Behold (no pun intended) : the sound is somewhat better i.e.  the vocals are not so much forward as on the "high" level = better balance indeed.  Well there you go mate : one is never too old to learn something new & helpful.  Merry Christmas Bugman & the very best to you & family.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bgroberts said:


> A little background:
> I used to send a singing voicemail to over 200 people each Christmas.
> About 16 months ago, I was rushed to the ER. Doctors doubted my survival.  I spent several days in a coma, then several months in multiple hospitals,  I came home just before Christmas 2013 in a hospital bed.  Due to severe nerve damage and paralysis of my tongue, vocal chords, and stomach, I was  unable to drink, eat, talk, sit, or stand.  I was fed through a feeding tube implanted into my body for many months.
> Today, the future looks bright.  I am up and about in a wheelchair and beginning to use a walker and canes  I'm back to rocking the house with my vintage Pioneer 1250SX and Pioneer HPM100s & Snell CIIIs.
> ...


 
  
 God is awesome!  I pray He continues to bless your recovery.  Merry Christmas from a fellow SX1250 owner!


----------



## Silent One

Holiday Cheers to my brothers and sisters inside this most wonderful thread!


----------



## MattTCG

First coat of poly done. Then light sanding and final coat and I'm done.


----------



## LugBug1

bobg55 said:


> LugBug1 my friend, thanks for pointing that out.  I don't have a Vintage amp with a low level option but my HeadAmp GS-1 does have one.  When I read your posting last night, I switched the level to "low" & Low & Behold (no pun intended) : the sound is somewhat better i.e.  the vocals are not so much forward as on the "high" level = better balance indeed.  Well there you go mate : one is never too old to learn something new & helpful.  Merry Christmas Bugman & the very best to you & family.


 
 Hey no problemo my good friend! 
  
 All the best to you and your family too  
  
  
 All the best to all of you lovely folk on this thread xxxx


----------



## buson160man

matttcg said:


> First coat of poly done. Then light sanding and final coat and I'm done.


 

 wow the case really looks pretty nice job. I really need to do something for the case on my concept 16.5 it is really looking a bit ratty .
 Maybe after Christmas and when I get caught up with my Christmas expenditures.


----------



## SirMarc

I noticed that a few of you guys are from NJ. Any advice on a good tech for vintage turntables? I recently hooked up my thorens td 145 and have a very load hum in the right channel. I'm sure its a ground issue, but really don't feel like ripping it apart and resoldering things


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> I noticed that a few of you guys are from NJ. Any advice on a good tech for vintage turntables? I recently hooked up my thorens td 145 and have a very load hum in the right channel. I'm sure its a ground issue, but really don't feel like ripping it apart and resoldering things


 

   A thorens td 145 I used to own one of those way back when with he isotrack tonearm. It had a interchangeable arm wand tube to facilitate cartridge swapping. That brings back memories.


----------



## buson160man

oregonian said:


> So this is so rare I had to post the holy grail of all receivers......................330 wpc - $2995
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4804444961.html


 

   You do not see one of these very often. The king of the monster vintage receiver wars. It would be nice to hear what a restored one would sound like.


----------



## MattTCG

I noticed that Apple has a new commercial with a vintage Pioneer receiver. I wasn't able to quite make out the model, but I think that it was an sx-xx80 because of the black meters.


----------



## PhoenixG

matttcg said:


> I noticed that Apple has a new commercial with a vintage Pioneer receiver. I wasn't able to quite make out the model, but I think that it was an sx-xx80 because of the black meters.


 
 SX-780 I think


----------



## MattTCG

Nice find!! Apple needs to step up their game to something like a 1280.


----------



## SirMarc

OK, vintage rig complete. Dynaco sca-50 and thorens td-145 rocking an original pressing of John Barleycorn must die with senn hd580's. Good stuff...


----------



## SirMarc

Sounds much better than my tube dac and Asgard 2 with my hi rez copy from hdtracks. Not even close really. Sometimes I wonder about hdtracks, because I've got some hi rez albums I ripped myself from DVD audios that sound similar between the 2 systems


----------



## nick n

Bump for a worthy thread.
 Some nice stuff posted since I last looked.
  
 Another night time walk around the block for some fresh air proves fruitful yet again.
  These were just placed outside under the cover of dark, within minutes of my seeing them due to no condensation on the metal badges , only one block ( around the corner ) from where I found the Sony STR-2800 I put pics of in here.
  Not bad.
 I know it's an amp/receiver thread but ..but... these will go with the Sony I found a few weeks back in the same area. So it fits technically.
  
  Sansui SP-1000 's
 Some very minor nicks out of the wooden grilles not bad at all with no cracks that can see, badges intact, no gouges out of the cabinets.
 These were extremely well kept.
 Hopefully they don't have any issues at all, without doubt if they pass obvious inspection I will recap them and get some more "secret filler" for the insides.

  

  
 I keep waiting for this sort of thing to stop( it will won't it? )
 Running out of both room and uses. Might have to use them as stands for the JBL L88 Novas for now.
  
  it's rough


----------



## PhoenixG

nick n said:


> Bump for a worthy thread.
> Some nice stuff posted since I last looked.
> 
> Another night time walk around the block for some fresh air proves fruitful yet again.
> ...


 
 I've had those and a few of their bigger brothers. Some were pretty darn good, others not too bad. No real duds.


----------



## PhoenixG

So Santa came a few days late for me, but I suppose it's because he had such a heavy sleigh.
 That is to say - I liked my Sony STR-6120 so much that I have bought my second and third in quick succession. 
 Both have the optional walnut case, but one is literally the nicest I have ever seen. Full recap, LED upgrade, low hours, flawless case, the works. The other is a tad above average, but still looking good. I'm in heaven. And a little bit the doghouse, but it is WORTH IT!
 Thank goodness my wife is so understanding!
 Sorry the pictures are so-so, the wife was kind enough to take them for me.


----------



## LugBug1

^^ Hah good ole Santa! 
  
 They're stunning and it makes sense to stick with what you know when you get to a certain stage in this vintage hobby. 
  
  
 (I moved into the doghouse some time ago... Much more peaceful haha) 
  
 Congrats


----------



## Silent One

lugbug1 said:


> ^^ Hah good ole Santa!
> 
> They're stunning and it makes sense to stick with what you know when you get to a certain stage in this vintage hobby.
> 
> ...


 
 +1 They gorgeous!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have been a doghouse resident a number of times myself.  Have any of you seen this JCPenny Doghouse video?  Darn funny!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyduncFpzl4


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> I have been a doghouse resident a number of times myself.  Have any of you seen this JCPenny Doghouse video?  Darn funny!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyduncFpzl4


 
 Ok, that video was kind of amazing!
 I'm not in the doghouse that badly, fortunately. Even the wife can tell good sound when she hears it. And she likes how pretty they are. I'm keeping her around for good haha.


----------



## micmacmo

Not exactly vintage, but certainty elderly...
  
 I saved this early 90's Denon PMA-860 from my mother's basement, where it was used as part of a laserdisc karaoke system. I'm using it to drive HE-6 off the speaker taps. (The bamboo box on top houses an L-pad resistor network to attenuate the voltage.) Initial impressions: dry, slightly warm presentation. Very tight controlled bass. Soundstage is wide and pinpoint. A good fit for strings and orchestral music.


----------



## nick n

Nice find Mo!
 Nice simple faceplate design.
  Looks pretty good.
  
 Also  googled the insides right away. ( It is a Class A I didn't zoom in on your picture first )
 +Tone bypass"direct source"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



_Extra_ good score now.


----------



## micmacmo

Thanks, nick! I don't know how I'd overlooked it in the basement (or how long it's been since it was last turned on.) 

Very non-fatiguing sound quality. My only wish is that it had a pre-out and a main-in so I could add a little tube pre-amp in front of it. Once I've enjoyed it for a bit, I'll open it up and see how the caps look and check the bias. Man, I love free stuff.


----------



## nick n

Not sure I could ever get a fullsized without a tone bypass in it. Just me.


----------



## dogwan

Here's my latest toy. The Nakamichi TA-3A. I consider it vintage since it is about 25 years old.
  
 I've had it for a while, but it was in non-working condition. Would not power on. Took me a while to figure it out. The small start-up transformer had broken free of the solder pads. After securing and using jumpers to bridge the broken pads I got power. However still couldn't get any sound. Digging deeper I found some large resistors that were elevated off of the main amp board had also broken their solder pads. I think this unit was dropped at some point, or maybe shipped on its side across country? Also had to get really creative to fix the knobs which had all virtually disintegrated. I think it cleaned up nice. Wish I had taken a "before" pic.
  
 Anyway, still going through it and waiting on some parts to upgrade it as per the service alerts in the manual and known issues with undersized resistors. But, while I was testing it I had my beater AKG K240's (600Ω) plugged in and it was the best I have ever heard them. Deep thunderous bass and clear highs with a very articulate sound. Can't wait to get this dialed in and swapped into the living room system.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice - I believe the Nakamichi TA-3A is a Nelson Pass Stasis design.  Can't go wrong there!


----------



## Oregonian

dogwan said:


> Here's my latest toy. The Nakamichi TA-3A. I consider it vintage since it is about 25 years old.
> 
> I've had it for a while, but it was in non-working condition. Would not power on. Took me a while to figure it out. The small start-up transformer had broken free of the solder pads. After securing and using jumpers to bridge the broken pads I got power. However still couldn't get any sound. Digging deeper I found some large resistors that were elevated off of the main amp board had also broken their solder pads. I think this unit was dropped at some point, or maybe shipped on its side across country? Also had to get really creative to fix the knobs which had all virtually disintegrated. I think it cleaned up nice. Wish I had taken a "before" pic.
> 
> Anyway, still going through it and waiting on some parts to upgrade it as per the service alerts in the manual and known issues with undersized resistors. But, while I was testing it I had my beater AKG K240's (600Ω) plugged in and it was the best I have ever heard them. Deep thunderous bass and clear highs with a very articulate sound. Can't wait to get this dialed in and swapped into the living room system.


 

 Congrats fellow Oregonian!  If you need any help with repair work Doug over at Audio Specialties on 102nd Ave in Portland is your guy.


----------



## dogwan

oregonian said:


> Congrats fellow Oregonian!  If you need any help with repair work Doug over at Audio Specialties on 102nd Ave in Portland is your guy.


 
 I am familiar with Audio Specialties. Have yet to need him. I pride myself on being tenacious enough to tackle my own repairs. And when it goes wrong I sheepishly hide it in my garage until it disappears.... lol.


----------



## Ruben123

Guys I have a nice Technics amp from late 70s. I love it though you more experienced audiophiles may find it boring 
  
 But I have a problem. The volume knob cracks enormously, and cleaning the POT with some air solves the problem for some weeks and then it's back. Read somewhere about contact spray, and lubricating after that.
  
 1) Is that true?
 2) What' s the chemicals in the contact spray that do the job? I cant find here (Holland) any sort of contact spray (yeah some very fatty contact spray for keys and locks but I guess that doesnt do the job). I might be able to find it then.
  
 Also my granddad has a Sansui receiver/amp with built-in FM. Built in wood. Must be 40 years old the very least. Worth it to ask sometime if he ever thinks to throw away it to get it?


----------



## Skylab

Just search this thread for Deoxit and you will learn all you need to know


----------



## Oregonian

ruben123 said:


> Guys I have a nice Technics amp from late 70s. I love it though you more experienced audiophiles may find it boring
> 
> But I have a problem. The volume knob cracks enormously, and cleaning the POT with some air solves the problem for some weeks and then it's back. Read somewhere about contact spray, and lubricating after that.
> 
> ...


 

 Here's the link to the definitive info on Deoxit. 
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005
  
 And grab that Sansui receiver before it goes to the graveyard!  Well worth keeping..............


----------



## Ruben123

Thanks a lot guys! Very informative


----------



## Silent One

In all my excitement I must have missed the model number of the Sansui...get it ask for it anyway.


----------



## caprimulgus

hey guys, so i'm looking to join this club! 
  
 are there any easy guides/resources i should read up on, as a complete and total n00b? or a list of models that i should look out for?
  
 i've read through the Deoxit guide above, so i'll either try to do that myself, or take it to a specialist for a once over in case there's any more substantial repairs necessary.
  
 i will mainly be using it to amp my Denon D2000/D5000 with wooden cups (as well as Phillips Fidelio X1, and to a lesser extent Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 80. future upgrades: probably something like TH-900 or LCD2, or whatever is in that realm in a couple years time!). but mainly the Denons. looking for something that can give it a nice warm sound and emphasise the bass (i am a basshead, listening to mostly hip-hop and modern pop music, and watching movies), as well as the capability to take the hot treble down a notch on the Denons.
  
 AM/FM tuner not necessary (happy either way). phono inputs for turntable would be handy (currently have Technics SL-1200MKII, but would like to buy a new turntable at some point).
  
 gikigill has very kindly offered to lend me his Sherwood 2620B and a 70's Onkyo. so I will have those to try out for a bit. but i figure i should start researching so that if i see anything pop up on gumtree.com.au (i guess that's our version of craigslist?) i can snap it up!
  
 i know Oregonian uses his Denons with vintage Pioneer amps, so i'll keep an eye out for them.
  
 but yeah, any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## caprimulgus

i found a Pioneer SA-9100 (plus tuner and tape deck), which seems pretty popular. looks nice, but probably a bit pricey for me!
 http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/melbourne-cbd/audio/vintage-pioneer-hi-fi-system-amplifier-tuner-cassette-deck/1066493011
  
 also found a Pioneer SA-5500 II, which appears to be a later/more budget model...not as well regarded.
 http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wantirna-south/audio/pioneer-vintage-amplifier-sa-5500-ii/1066362858


----------



## SpeakerBox

caprimulgus said:


> hey guys, so i'm looking to join this club!
> 
> are there any easy guides/resources i should read up on, as a complete and total n00b? or a list of models that i should look out for?


 
  
 Well - it is a big task - but if you can read this entire thread you will gain much Vintage knowledge.  Incidentally if you are trying Sherwood the S-7xxx, S-8xxx, and S-9xxx are the ones to get.  As a matter of fact the 25WPC Sherwood S-7100A is off the charts good IMHO.  Can be had for less than $100 on Ebay.


----------



## Skylab

The SA-9100 is a very fine amplifier. That's a. Ice looking stack with the tuner and tape deck but the tape deck isn't a TOTL. You should offer the guy $600 for all...if he takes it you're happy, if not, keep looking.


----------



## buson160man

I have been following threads about these classic receivers and just joined the brotherhood of vintage receiver owners around six months ago.
 I have been reading about the vintage sansuii g33000 and g22000 receivers with their separating amplifier and preamp sections. Does anyone own one of these receivers. I am curious about how they sound as headphone amplifiers. I would also appreciate any input as to how they compare to other vintage monster receivers of the era.
    These are a bit too pricey for me these days especially the g33000. Those go for upwards of 7500 usd these days ouch!!!!!!!!!!!
 Just as well I just do not have the room for more than the monster vintage receiver I have (really I do not, I have to put mine on the floor it is too big for the shelves in my cabinet ) .
     But getting back to my original thoughts I would like to hear some opinions of the sansei g33000 and g22000 from those who either own one or has heard one.


----------



## MattTCG

speakerbox said:


> Well - it is a big task - but if you can read this entire thread you will gain much Vintage knowledge.  Incidentally if you are trying Sherwood the S-7xxx, S-8xxx, and S-9xxx are the ones to get.  As a matter of fact the 25WPC Sherwood S-7100A is off the charts good IMHO.  Can be had for less than $100 on Ebay.


 
  
 I wish that threads here had a printer function where you could spit the whole thing out on a laserprinter and read it like a book.


----------



## buson160man

This is an awesome thing is it not? I have been following these vintage units in head-fi for awhile and it has been very interesting to say the least.


----------



## caprimulgus

speakerbox said:


> Well - it is a big task - but if you can read this entire thread you will gain much Vintage knowledge.


 
  
 i feared as much... 
  
 reading 1000-page threads from beginning to end is something i told myself i should stop doing (i have a "completist" tendency!), and have tried to avoid of late! 
  
 alas, looks like i'm going in! i'll probably see you guys back here at the live end of the thread in a week or two when i've caught up! 
  


speakerbox said:


> Incidentally if you are trying Sherwood the S-7xxx, S-8xxx, and S-9xxx are the ones to get.  As a matter of fact the 25WPC Sherwood S-7100A is off the charts good IMHO.  Can be had for less than $100 on Ebay.


 
  


skylab said:


> The SA-9100 is a very fine amplifier. That's a. Ice looking stack with the tuner and tape deck but the tape deck isn't a TOTL. You should offer the guy $600 for all...if he takes it you're happy, if not, keep looking.


  

 cheers for the advice guys!


----------



## Oregonian

buson160man said:


> I have been following threads about these classic receivers and just joined the brotherhood of vintage receiver owners around six months ago.
> I have been reading about the vintage sansuii g33000 and g22000 receivers with their separating amplifier and preamp sections. Does anyone own one of these receivers. I am curious about how they sound as headphone amplifiers. I would also appreciate any input as to how they compare to other vintage monster receivers of the era.
> These are a bit too pricey for me these days especially the g33000. Those go for upwards of 7500 usd these days ouch!!!!!!!!!!!
> Just as well I just do not have the room for more than the monster vintage receiver I have (really I do not, I have to put mine on the floor it is too big for the shelves in my cabinet ) .
> But getting back to my original thoughts I would like to hear some opinions of the sansei g33000 and g22000 from those who either own one or has heard one.




Silent One is your guy......he has the G-22000.........drives his HE-6 off the speaker taps.


----------



## caprimulgus

100 pages in, and I already weep with sorrow! AU-517 for $650, when they were available for less than $100!


----------



## SpeakerBox

caprimulgus said:


> 100 pages in, and I already weep with sorrow! AU-517 for $650, when they were available for less than $100!


 
  
 This thread has probably been responsible for driving up prices on some units.  Our bad I guess - but they are so good we must talk about them!


----------



## caprimulgus

speakerbox said:


> This thread has probably been responsible for driving up prices on some units.  Our bad I guess - but they are so good we must talk about them!


 
  
  
 them the breaks! sucks for us newbies reading the dirt cheap prices you guys paid just a few years back!!!
  
 (but also attributable to the "australia tax", so you guys are not solely to blame!)


----------



## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> This thread has probably been responsible for driving up prices on some units.  Our bad I guess - but they are so good we must talk about them!


 

 Eh, that's more Audiokarma's doing, but I guess we're partially responsible for the renewed interest in the headphone-oriented market.


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> I have been following threads about these classic receivers and just joined the brotherhood of vintage receiver owners around six months ago.
> I have been reading about the vintage sansuii g33000 and g22000 receivers with their separating amplifier and preamp sections. Does anyone own one of these receivers. I am curious about how they sound as headphone amplifiers. I would also appreciate any input as to how they compare to other vintage monster receivers of the era.
> These are a bit too pricey for me these days especially the g33000. Those go for upwards of 7500 usd these days ouch!!!!!!!!!!!
> Just as well I just do not have the room for more than the monster vintage receiver I have (really I do not, I have to put mine on the floor it is too big for the shelves in my cabinet ) .
> But getting back to my original thoughts I would like to hear some opinions of the sansei g33000 and g22000 from those who either own one or has heard one.


 

  
 I use it to drive my HE-6 off speaker taps.


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> I use it to drive my HE-6 off speaker taps.


 

          How does it sound compared to other monster vintage receivers of the day? The receiver sure looks pretty in the night mine is very plain jane looking.


----------



## MattTCG

I believe that this is some vintage steel from Audeze's recently retooled website. Not sure which receiver it is...


----------



## Skylab

That's actually an AKAI GX-4000 reel to reel tape deck, if I'm not mistaken. Many reel to reel decks have killer headphone sections.


----------



## MattTCG

^^ I had no idea. Thanks for sharing Rob!!


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> That's actually an AKAI GX-4000 reel to reel tape deck, if I'm not mistaken. Many reel to reel decks have killer headphone sections.


 
 Many, especially Akai, use EL84 single ended tube amps for voltage gain.
 You can pull these out and make a sweet little headphone amp!


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> How does it sound compared to other monster vintage receivers of the day? The receiver sure looks pretty in the night mine is very plain jane looking.


 
 I think it sounds great..._and that's the un-restored version I'm hearing. _Will eventually go full resto. But since all the caps measured well within original specs, this can wait a bit. 
  
 A few moons back (several actually), I had a chance to hear:
 - Kenwood 9600 
 - Pioneer SX-1250
 - Marantz 2500/2600
 - SA-1000
  
 All of these with various TTs & R2Rs and a wide variety of speakers. Except never with cans. None of 'em! Often heard lower tiered Sansui's. But never even heard of the Monster G-33000/22000 until 2012. And still could never lay eyes on one in person. That all changed in 2013. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 one Friday night I just happened to reviewing vintage iron on CL. Tripped over the seller's listing and noticed the posting was time-stamped at 5 min or just under. Called and immediately setup a meeting. But agreed to buy it in-principle unseen, unheard.
  
 Can't really tell you how it sounds compared to other monsters with headphones. And have not tried the Sansui with speakers yet either. I'm almost certain others (moodyrn; Skylab, Oregonian ect) can provide you with descriptive details. As well as AudioKarma, 'cause there's a few members who own both the SX-1980 & G-33000/G22000 at the same time.


----------



## levlhed

Well, I purchased the Pioneer SA-9800 that was on AK.  Seemed like a good opportunity for a high end solid state Pioneer and I have a thing for integrated over receiver...I got it for a fair price (not a steal by any means).  Still waiting for it to get shipped out.


----------



## Oregonian

levlhed said:


> Well, I purchased the Pioneer SA-9800 that was on AK.  Seemed like a good opportunity for a high end solid state Pioneer and I have a thing for integrated over receiver...I got it for a fair price (not a steal by any means).  Still waiting for it to get shipped out.




Congratulations! I have the SA-8800 among my Pioneer stable. Look forward to pics when you get it!


----------



## LugBug1

speakerbox said:


> This thread has probably been responsible for driving up prices on some units.  Our bad I guess - but they are so good we must talk about them!


 
 Noooo, Audiokarma is all you get when you google. We are hidden in a nice cozy corner of the internet  
  
 We can say all we want! For example - Stop buying very expensive headphone amps for your picky HD800's! (just shell out for a mint vintage NAD


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> I think it sounds great..._and that's the un-restored version I'm hearing. _Will eventually go full resto. But since all the caps measured well within original specs, this can wait a bit.
> 
> A few moons back (several actually), I had a chance to hear:
> - Kenwood 9600
> ...


 

  Al I know is that my concept receiver just about blows any dedicated headphone amp that I have heard out of the water. The beast is just so much more dynamic and the bass is just unbelievable.
 I have never heard bass from my akg 701s like they have with the concept receiver. I have had my 701s for over 5 years now and no dedicated headphone amp that I have heard can come even remotely close in the bass department.  That includes the cavaliis no contest game set match to the concept 16.5 .
    In fact it is tough going back to my dedicated amps the sound just is not in the same league.
   I should check some of the other vintage monsters out with my headphones. I do not have the space to collect some of these behemoths but it would be interesting to see how they compare to my concept 16.5 . Maybe I will check some out at some vintage shops in my area. You do not have to buy just listen.


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> Al I know is that my concept receiver just about blows any dedicated headphone amp that I have heard out of the water. The beast is just so much more dynamic and the bass is just unbelievable.
> I have never heard bass from my akg 701s like they have with the concept receiver. I have had my 701s for over 5 years now and no dedicated headphone amp that I have heard can come even remotely close in the bass department.  That includes the cavaliis no contest game set match to the concept 16.5 .
> In fact it is tough going back to my dedicated amps the sound just is not in the same league.
> I should check some of the other vintage monsters out with my headphones. I do not have the space to collect some of these behemoths but it would be interesting to see how they compare to my concept 16.5 . Maybe I will check some out at some vintage shops in my area. You do not have to buy just listen.


 
 If one considers:
  
 - Purchase price
 - Features
 - Flexibility
 - Power 
  
 The ROI (Return On Investment) is so high, we should all be investigated.


----------



## Edwii

I found this Toshiba SB-404 at the 2nd hand store today for $25CAD, and it sounds pretty good on my HD650 (note I haven't really had much else to compare with).  
 Is it a good amp? How would you speculate it's comparison to a main stream amp, like a Schiit or JDS Labs or FiiO?
 -Is this a good amp for my HD650?  
  
 I may restore it a bit if it's worth my time; I can't decided between keeping it as stock as possible, or doing some tiny upgrades, like a better power wire, rear headphone jack, led back lighting OR keeping it as stock as possible if it will maintain the value.
  
 -It's a Quadrophonic amp, I'm not sure if that means more than it's a 4channel, it has two sets of "front" and "rear" headphone jacks; Could I configure this amp to run like a "balanced amp"? 
  
 -The knobs cause a bit of static distortion when turned, should I just take them out and use contact cleaner? 
  
 -There is a bit of "white noise"  when no sound is playing, which I know is common in amps, is there anything I can do to help that?
  
 -It has a basic 2prong power plug, I was thinking of putting a beefier gauge wire and upgrade to 3prong- It has a little "grounding point" on the back I figure I'd tie that into the the ground socket on the wall? -Good idea/Bad idea?


----------



## CrocCap

That grounding point on the back is for turntables that dont have a built in pre-amp, and use a ground connected to the amp to avoid humming.  Do not attach this grounding point to a wall socket.


----------



## Edwii

croccap said:


> use a ground connected to the amp to avoid humming.


 
 Can you explain this? 
 What ground?


----------



## PhoenixG

edwii said:


> I found this Toshiba SB-404 at the 2nd hand store today for $25CAD, and it sounds pretty good on my HD650 (note I haven't really had much else to compare with).
> Is it a good amp? How would you speculate it's comparison to a main stream amp, like a Schiit or JDS Labs or FiiO?
> -Is this a good amp for my HD650?
> 
> ...


 
 That's a nice looking entry level amp from the mid 70's. At $25, you got a good deal as it probably sounds like a $300 amp. I wouldn't sink too much in to so-called "upgrades." No matter how much you spend, you will never turn a toyota camry into a porsche 9-11.
 On anything that old, it could probably use a good cleaning with deoxit. It will likely require a tune up to lower the volume of the white noise, but this amp has a 9mv noise floor (that's a lot -- compare to .01-.001mv on high end amps) by spec, so there's not much anyone can lower it without redesigning or kneecapping your amp. Enjoy it and be happy with your deal. If you want to change it, it won't have much effect on value as you will definitely end up spending more than it raises the value. If you want a change for yourself, then by all means go for it if it will make you happy.


----------



## Skylab

edwii said:


> Can you explain this?
> What ground?




The point is that the "ground" terminal on the back of the Toshiba you have is ONLY for connecting a TURNTABLE's grounding wire to. Do NOT connect that terminal to any AC socket.


----------



## Edwii

phoenixg said:


> On anything that old, it could probably use a good cleaning with deoxit.* It will likely require a tune up to lower the volume of the white noise,* but this amp has a 9mv noise floor (that's a lot -- compare to .01-.001mv on high end amps) by spec, so there's not much anyone can lower it without redesigning or kneecapping your amp. Enjoy it and be happy with your deal. If you want to change it, it won't have much effect on value as you will definitely end up spending more than it raises the value. If you want a change for yourself, then by all means go for it if it will make you happy.


 
  
 Thanks for the input. 
 Any upgrades/mods I would do to it would just be little simple things, I just don't know if the mods would hurt the vintage value of it. 
 -When you say "tune up" what does that involve? 
 -I'm assuming deoxit is contact cleaner? And to be used on the control pots; anything else that I should contact clean? 
 -would adding a 3 prong power cable, and attaching the new ground lead to the 3rd prong be of benifit to grounding the amp, or damage it?
  


skylab said:


> The point is that the "ground" terminal on the back of the Toshiba you have is ONLY for connecting a TURNTABLE's grounding wire to. Do NOT connect that terminal to any AC socket.


 

 I understand that point. What I mean was, if Ignore the turntable ground, and upgraded the power cable to a 3 prong, could I attach the ground wire (3rd wire) of the power cable to like the chasis of the amp to help grounding?


----------



## Skylab

edwii said:


> I understand that point. What I mean was, if Ignore the turntable ground, and upgraded the power cable to a 3 prong, could I attach the ground wire (3rd wire) of the power cable to like the chasis of the amp to help grounding?




NO. What we are trying to tell you is NOT to do that.


----------



## Edwii

Alright, I wont.  Thank you. 
 What happens if you do if I may ask?


----------



## Silent One




----------



## PhoenixG

edwii said:


> Alright, I wont.  Thank you.
> What happens if you do if I may ask?


 
 Best case scenario nothing happens and you are just out however much a new power cable costs. Worst case scenario is where a) there is a short somewhere in your amp or b) your wiring is bonded wrong and you make your amp more susceptible to damage. If you pop the top on your amp, you'll probably find that both 'hot' and 'cold' sides of the power triangle are capacitor coupled to the chassis already just in case you have a plug with a reversed polarity. It has created its own ground already and you don't need another one, especially if they decide to be different places. I think most of us here at this thread (and I hate making generalizations. Just made another, dang) don't give one hoot about the power cable. Stock is fine 99% of the time. It only matters when you have a cable that is actually corroded/undersized or a puny power supply section. Save your money. You have a cool looking amp you got for 25 looneys - that's a good deal for an entry level vintage amp.
  
 Your amp has a hum. That happens. It especially happens when the designer is trying to save a bit of money. It's hard to get rid of it completely unless it is really truly so loud that the amp is actually broken. Really nice amps don't hum, but somebody paid a whole heck of a lot more money for them back when they were new to have some 15lb brain make it so at the factory. I looked up the specs for your amp and compared to a TOTL amp, it hums a fair bit, even when new and working perfectly. If you still like how it sounds, then you're a winner! 
  
 Regarding a tune-up, a tune up is a service that costs $1-200, and usually a technician will go through your amp and make sure it's working properly. They'll reallign the FM section and adjust your bias and DC offset voltages. You normally do that if there's a loss of detail in your amp, but most vintage amps need some love after sitting on a shelf for XX decades.If you have a multi meter and are handy, you can absolutely do your own DC offset and bias voltages if your amp is set up to allow it, but you have to find the manual that tells you how. Amps differ a lot and I don't want to give you wrong directions and make yours smoke check itself.
 A tune up will do more for your amp than the Nth power cable. (i.e. something vs literally nothing)
  
 Deoxit anything with mobile metal to metal contact. Switches, contacts, inputs and outputs, speaker taps, and HP jacks.If it's between you and the music, deoxit it.


----------



## Edwii

phoenixg said:


> Best case scenario nothing happens and you are just out however much a new power cable costs. Worst case scenario is where a) there is a short somewhere in your amp or b) your wiring is bonded wrong and you make your amp more susceptible to damage. If you pop the top on your amp, you'll probably find that both 'hot' and 'cold' sides of the power triangle are capacitor coupled to the chassis already just in case you have a plug with a reversed polarity. It has created its own ground already and you don't need another one, especially if they decide to be different places. I think most of us here at this thread (and I hate making generalizations. Just made another, dang) don't give one hoot about the power cable. Stock is fine 99% of the time. It only matters when you have a cable that is actually corroded/undersized or a puny power supply section. Save your money. You have a cool looking amp you got for 25 looneys - that's a good deal for an entry level vintage amp.
> 
> Your amp has a hum. That happens. It especially happens when the designer is trying to save a bit of money. It's hard to get rid of it completely unless it is really truly so loud that the amp is actually broken. Really nice amps don't hum, but somebody paid a whole heck of a lot more money for them back when they were new to have some 15lb brain make it so at the factory. I looked up the specs for your amp and compared to a TOTL amp, it hums a fair bit, even when new and working perfectly. If you still like how it sounds, then you're a winner!
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you for the reply.  Very helpful. 
  
 Follow up: 
 1.  I know this is hard to answer, but if you were to speculate what this amp would compare to, in terms of sound quality, to a well known modern headphone amp, where would you speculate to place it?  
 2.  I don't think Deoxit is going to be easy to find in Canada, and more common/generic products I can use?  (normally I wouldn't mind ordering it, but I have the amp in pieces right now and dont want to leave it laying like that.) 
 3.  On the back there is a switch for Magnetic / Condenser Cartridge settings, Which do I use when coming from a PC or DAC? 
 4. I'm pretty handy, but the manual I found doesn't seem to say anything about DC offsets. 
 5. The model on the amp is SB-404, but there is almost nothing found on it, the SB-404s however seems to show up much more often online, they look identical. Any idea what this might mean?


----------



## frahengeo

edwii said:


> Thank you for the reply.  Very helpful.
> 
> Follow up:
> 1.  I know this is hard to answer, but if you were to speculate what this amp would compare to, in terms of sound quality, to a well known modern headphone amp, where would you speculate to place it?
> ...


 
 I would suggest that you direct these questions to audiokarma/AK.  There are knowledgeable people here, but AK has more resources that can help you with vintage amps/receivers.


----------



## SpeakerBox

edwii said:


> Thank you for the reply.  Very helpful.
> 
> Follow up:
> 1.  I know this is hard to answer, but if you were to speculate what this amp would compare to, in terms of sound quality, to a well known modern headphone amp, where would you speculate to place it?
> ...


----------



## Edwii

Can I  use a Quadrofonic receiver like a Balanced Headphone amp?   
 It has 4 channels and front and rear headphone jacks. If I were to split the RCA's going into the amp so that both "front and rear" channels got the same input, would this work the same as balanced?


----------



## SpeakerBox

The internal wiring of the amp would prevent the balancing scheme you propose.  Even if you were able to bridge two channels to one I doubt it could work. Add to that that most of the old quad amps could not be bridged at the output.
  
 I think this falls into the "more trouble than it is worth" category.


----------



## Edwii

speakerbox said:


> The internal wiring of the amp would prevent the balancing scheme you propose.  Even if you were able to bridge two channels to one I doubt it could work. Add to that that most of the old quad amps could not be bridged at the output.
> 
> I think this falls into the "more trouble than it is worth" category.


 
 I'm not sure we're on the same page, just be clear this is what I mean: 
  
 PC Source--->DAC--->RCA Splitter--->two left RCAs go into the front channels and the two right RCA go into the rear channels--->2 individual mono TRS plugs (one for each headphone driver) go into the front and rear TRS jacks respectively.   
 Does that make sense, or does that just not work?


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> If one considers:
> 
> - Purchase price
> - Features
> ...


 

 I agree totally. I myself was lucky to land my recapped concept 16.5 for 999 usd at a local hi fi store which sells used pieces as well. I just checked recently and saw a couple of 16.5s on ebay.
 They both were priced at about 1500 usd. I got a bit of a steal for 999 usd. Both units offered on ebay have not been recapped.
    We are ridiculous are we not using a 67 lb monster vintage receiver exclusively as a dedicated headphone amplifier. But the proof is in the pudding . These vintage behemoths smoke just about any dedicated headphone amp that they make today. As I stated before no contest in an earlier blog of mine .     But now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak the prices of these vintage gems is definitely on the upward spiral. Some like the vintage Marantz , Sansui and pioneers are becoming too pricey for the average fan these days. It would have been nice to collect a few of these gems before the word got out . But they do take up a lot of space and you have to have some place to keep them .
 Which in my case a smaller apartment does not afford that luxury.


----------



## SpeakerBox

edwii said:


> I'm not sure we're on the same page, just be clear this is what I mean:
> 
> PC Source--->DAC--->RCA Splitter--->two left RCAs go into the front channels and the two right RCA go into the rear channels--->2 individual mono TRS plugs (one for each headphone driver) go into the front and rear TRS jacks respectively.
> Does that make sense, or does that just not work?


 
  
 No - we are on the same page.  How do you propose to recombine a balanced signal from the four discrete amplifier channels to which those inputs are wired?  I don't think a Y connector to two amplifier channels will be workable and don't believe the internal wiring supports a balanced approach.


----------



## Oregonian

buson160man said:


> I agree totally. I myself was lucky to land my recapped concept 16.5 for 999 usd at a local hi fi store which sells used pieces as well. I just checked recently and saw a couple of 16.5s on ebay.
> They both were priced at about 1500 usd. I got a bit of a steal for 999 usd. Both units offered on ebay have not been recapped.
> *We are ridiculous are we not using a 67 lb monster vintage receiver exclusively as a dedicated headphone amplifier. But the proof is in the pudding* . These vintage behemoths smoke just about any dedicated headphone amp that they make today. As I stated before no contest in an earlier blog of mine . These vintage monsters are just superior to any of the dedicated headphone amps they make today.
> But now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak the prices of these vintage gems is definitely on the upward spiral. Some like the vintage Marantz , Sansui and pioneers are becoming to pricey for the average fan these days. It would have been nice to collect a few of these gems before the ward got out . But they do take up a lot of space and you have to have some place to keep them .
> Which in my case a smaller apartment does not afford that luxury.


 
  
 The bolded section had me spit out my coffee when I read it.................so true tho. 
  
 I agree tho - the thing is I read about all the headphone amps being talked about and the prices of them and it almost feels like we have this great secret that no one will acknowledge!  These are amazing!  In a way, we shouldn't care if they dismiss our vintage amps but the altruistic side kicks in and I want to help.


----------



## Silent One

Got my 93 lbs of audio goodness on a flat dolly.


----------



## Oregonian

silent one said:


> Got my 93 lbs of audio goodness on a flat dolly.


 

 And never been hooked up to speakers.....................and I love you for that!


----------



## gikigill

Clocking in over 100lbs on my vintage rig with a vintage equalizer and preamp. 

Just to power a pair of MadDogs and MDR-F1 and HE6.


----------



## Oregonian

gikigill said:


> Clocking in over 100lbs on my vintage rig with a vintage equalizer and preamp.
> 
> Just to power a pair of MadDogs and MDR-F1 and HE6.


 

  
 Seems like this is "reverse bragging"................tho you see a sweet pair of Cerwin Vega's the vast majority of the time this multi-hundred pound system is driving my HE-6....................and sweet the sound IS.


----------



## gikigill

I am running a pair of Australian made electrostats off two Sherwood amps in a monoblock config. Stats and vintage iron is a fantastic combo.


----------



## GustavMahler

Please help a confused person who tries to learn too much in a very short time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I am really confused what the sur. decode, straight and direct mode do. I have no idea what to choose when using 2 speakers and when 5.1. Also is Music video, Chamber, Concert Hall modes etc are other decoders like sur. decode, strait and direct decoders- Or is it an effect addition to the decoders? SO i can choose Straight and then chamber for added effect?
 2) Also when i am outputting video from my laptop to my receiver through HDMI the receiver shows it's getting 1080i. Why doesn't it get 1080p and what is the difference, And why is it caused? What limits it? If i change to another HDMI cable will i then get 1080p?
 3) And last thing-I can connect my laptop to the receiver or straight to the TV using HDMI and then to choose in the computer wether the output is the receiver (And also TV) Or my DAC and it works. So does it mean i have HDMI 1.4 And that i can connect the PC to TV, THen TV to receiver and get sound from the receiver? 
 4) What is AC3 filter? Do i need that if i connect my PC to the receiver?
 5) If i connect my monitor to the HDMI port of the mobo of my gaming PC-The active GPU will be the built in one, Right? Is there a way to send the GTX580 signal through this connection? I have mini HDMI on my gtx580 but i don't have a cable for it..
 6)I see that in my movie player (Potplayer) I can choose an audio decoder. Will it affect the sound the receiver gets? Isn't the decoding happens in the receiver anyway, So does it matter what decoder i choose in the PC? And if i use a decoder in the PC it means that the receiver receives uncompressed audio so it doesn't have to decode, RIght? 
 7) My laptop doesn't support SPDIF output for the AC3filter. If i get an external USB soundcard will it support SPDIF through the laptop's HDMI? 
 And what is SPDIF output through HDMI? I thought SPDIF could be output only from SPDIF.. It really got me confused.. I need to set SPDIF output in AC3filter in order to pass AC3 through HDMI.. 
 '


----------



## PhoenixG

gustavmahler said:


> Please help a confused person who tries to learn too much in a very short time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Es tut mir leid aber..... I think you have not found the right forum. If your amp has all those things, it is probably not the kind of vintage amp we celebrate here. Maybe you can find the manual online somewhere as I am also quite lost. I wish you the best of luck!


----------



## buson160man

oregonian said:


> Seems like this is "reverse bragging"................tho you see a sweet pair of Cerwin Vega's the vast majority of the time this multi-hundred pound system is driving my HE-6....................and sweet the sound IS.


 

 That is a sweet looking rig that you have . Really nice and I thought I was crazy using a monster vintage receiver to drive headphones. But you got me topped . what is the wattage of your separate power amp? Just curious.


----------



## moodyrn

Yes, it is!! So many great vintage rigs here on headfi. And yes, I'm using the speaker taps of my 114lb mac separates to power a pair of he-6(but also pulling double duty as a speaker amp for so tricked out electrostatics). The beauty of this setup is how quiet the background is using the speaker taps which tested over 240wpc. I've gotten hiss out of using a 75wpc amp before with the he6. But they are completely back with the gains turned up all of the way. My w3000 are equally quiet out of the the headphone jack.
  
 But it does seem this thread is being ignored on headfi with nearly a 1000 pages of posts. But that's fine with me. At least we don't have to worry about a few bad apples coming over here with their nonsense and locking this thread like sooo many other successful threads here in the past. This is by far my favorite thread here on headfi, and I hope we continue to be ignored. I know there have been a few to call us crazy, but with sooo many vintage lovers here, we can't all be crazy can't we?.....well don't answer that.


----------



## Oregonian

buson160man said:


> That is a sweet looking rig that you have . Really nice and I thought I was crazy using a monster vintage receiver to drive headphones. But you got me topped . what is the wattage of your separate power amp? Just curious.




Thanks bud.......I lucked out being in the right place at the right time. Paid $270 for the whole unit. And to think I almost didn't answer the phone that day. Anyway the Pioneer Spec 2 amp was bench tested at 309 W per channel before clipping. 

We all are a little bit crazy on this thread but it's a shared affliction so that's why I love all you guys. Kindred spirits. I've got 4 other pioneer vintage amps and receivers all 80 W per channel and above, most of them driving nothing but headphones.

Moodryn, you really hit the nail on the head with your comment about keeping the riffraff out. If that even comes close to happening with we need to band together brothers. This thread truly is the best place by far.


----------



## Edwii

I'm new to the world of vintage gear, tho I've always highly regarded it. 
 I was wondering what are some good amps/receivers for headphones?  
 To be more specific what I mean by that is, ones that are great for headphones but not so sought after for speakers for one reason or an other - Thus might be more accessible than the most popular models.  
 -HD650  
 -PC  
 -DAC (don't have one just yet.)
  
 ps. 
 I have some modern marantz stuff already, I wouldn't mind staying in the family, but open to all suggestions. Thx.


----------



## SpeakerBox

gikigill said:


> I am running a pair of Australian made electrostats off two Sherwood amps in a monoblock config. Stats and vintage iron is a fantastic combo.


 
  
 What are the Sherwood amps you use?


----------



## Silent One

Jus 4 fun, _vintage lovely_ benched 265 wpc.
 Jus 4 clarity, the sound presented is wonderful, considering we ain't using very much of those wpc's. 
  
 Be runnin' Class A on both SS & Tube amps.


----------



## gikigill

speakerbox said:


> What are the Sherwood amps you use?


 

 A variety of them. 2210, 2620, S7100,S8910,260B.


----------



## claybum

moodyrn said:


> Yes, it is!! So many great vintage rigs here on headfi. And yes, I'm using the speaker taps of my 114lb mac separates to power a pair of he-6(but also pulling double duty as a speaker amp for so tricked out electrostatics). The beauty of this setup is how quiet the background is using the speaker taps which tested over 240wpc. I've gotten hiss out of using a 75wpc amp before with the he6. But they are completely back with the gains turned up all of the way. My w3000 are equally quiet out of the the headphone jack.
> 
> But it does seem this thread is being ignored on headfi with nearly a 1000 pages of posts. But that's fine with me. At least we don't have to worry about a few bad apples coming over here with their nonsense and locking this thread like sooo many other successful threads here in the past. This is by far my favorite thread here on headfi, and I hope we continue to be ignored. I know there have been a few to call us crazy, but with sooo many vintage lovers here, we can't all be crazy can't we?.....well don't answer that.


 
  
 Yes, Yes, This is the best thread by far on head fi. This is the place that got me to go vintage and it's been a great journey. Huge thanks to moodyrn and Skylab and others. I spent plenty time and $$$ chasing the flavor of the month in headphones and dedicated amps. Not anymore. No interest at all with what goes on elsewhere on head fi. My first piece, a unrestored Marantz 2285b, sounded better than any dedicated headphone amp I had heard. And it just got better from there. I've totally settled in with my fully restored SX1250 and HE6. But what's really been a blast is going beyond headphones and learning about speakers and turntables. I love my 1250 and HPM 1500 speakers. I source my rig with a pioneer pl-55dx turntable or digitally with an Antelope Zodiac. I could spend $$$ on the latest totl headphone gear, but spending that dough on a new turntable or some vinyl would bring me so much more!!!
  
 So wonderful to see all the great vintage rigs you folks have put together


----------



## buson160man

oregonian said:


> The bolded section had me spit out my coffee when I read it.................so true tho.
> 
> I agree tho - the thing is I read about all the headphone amps being talked about and the prices of them and it almost feels like we have this great secret that no one will acknowledge!  These are amazing!  In a way, we shouldn't care if they dismiss our vintage amps but the altruistic side kicks in and I want to help.


 

 Thank you for the support it is appreciated.


----------



## captouch

edwii said:


> I'm new to the world of vintage gear, tho I've always highly regarded it.
> I was wondering what are some good amps/receivers for headphones?
> To be more specific what I mean by that is, ones that are great for headphones but not so sought after for speakers for one reason or an other - Thus might be more accessible than the most popular models.
> -HD650
> ...




Really depends upon your budget, but you can start with less expensive units and see how it goes from there.

Within the Marantz line, you can try a 2010 or 2015 - lower wattage, so many using speakers may want the higher powered units, but these should be fine for your HD650's. If you don't want or need radio, you can also consider an integrated like a 1060. All should be attainable for $100-200 if you shop around, and the 1060 is pretty easy to recap/restore.

Outside of Marantz, you can check out some of the Sherwood's (7100, 7200) or Sony's (I've had a 6055, getting a 6060) - they sound pretty sweet and are generally fairly under the radar. These should all be in the same price range as above.

Others can suggest other models, but I'd start relatively slow to start and not spend a ton of $ until you get a sense of what you like and whether you are up for doing tuning/maintenance, and possibly restoration on your own. If you buy an original piece, it may work fine for awhile but generally will require some work in time to keep it going.


----------



## Edwii

captouch said:


> Really depends upon your budget, but you can start with less expensive units and see how it goes from there.
> 
> Within the Marantz line, you can try a 2010 or 2015 - lower wattage, so many using speakers may want the higher powered units, but these should be fine for your HD650's. If you don't want or need radio, you can also consider an integrated like a 1060. All should be attainable for $100-200 if you shop around, and the 1060 is pretty easy to recap/restore.
> 
> ...


 

 TY for the reply. 
 I'm good with a soldering iron, replacing stuff is easy, but I dont know how to tell what needs replacing lol. 
  
  I don't see myself getting majorly invested into this. I only got this old Toshiba because it was cheap and handy at a time I needed headphone power. I would rather invest money in a Bottlehead Crack than go overboard into the vintage stuff, not that it's not cool in it's own reguards. 
  
 But this gives me something to keep my eyes open at antique stores, local listings, and ebay once and a while. 
  
 Thanks again


----------



## SpeakerBox

claybum said:


> I love my 1250 and HPM 1500 speakers. I source my rig with a pioneer pl-55dx turntable or digitally with an Antelope Zodiac. I could spend $$$ on the latest totl headphone gear, but spending that dough on a new turntable or some vinyl would bring me so much more!!!
> 
> So wonderful to see all the great vintage rigs you folks have put together


 
  
 The 1250 is awesome.  I listen to mine almost every day.


----------



## levlhed

Finally...Pioneer SA-9800 is in my clutches.
 Seller took over a week to ship it out, but at least it was packed well.  Ran it home @ lunch break to hook it up quick and verify there was nothing silly going on....seems to be cool after hasty test on both speakers and Alpha Prime's.
  
 Crummy cell phone pic to prove it:


----------



## Oregonian

levlhed said:


> Finally...Pioneer SA-9800 is in my clutches.
> Seller took over a week to ship it out, but at least it was packed well.  Ran it home @ lunch break to hook it up quick and verify there was nothing silly going on....seems to be cool after hasty test on both speakers and Alpha Prime's.
> 
> Crummy cell phone pic to prove it:


 
  
 Congrats....................looks just like my 8800 that I have in my office at work.  Love the fluoroscan meters.................you're gonna love it!


----------



## Nova40

I just got two NHT SuperZeros for my desk and need to drive them. For my headphones I have the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 and Spotify premium as my source, so I'm looking at integrated amplifiers. My dad has an old Yamaha ca 800 in the basement that he doesn't used and just needs a little repair on the left channel. I'm wondering what the performance will be like if I get it repair, or if I'm better off just buying the Cambridge Audio Azur 651a or 351a (though I'd nice to not spend the extra money)? I want good performance, but I do already have a pretty nice headphone setup, so they're not my only drivers.


----------



## levlhed

Better shot.  After this pic I hooked up the VinylFlat Can Opener and was surprised to find it sounded better than the headphone jack.
 Still wrapping my head around the sound of this amp.  Do I like it?  Better than my re-capped/upgraded Marantz 1060?  Hard to say...it is such a different sound.


----------



## captouch

edwii said:


> TY for the reply.
> I'm good with a soldering iron, replacing stuff is easy, but I dont know how to tell what needs replacing lol.
> 
> I don't see myself getting majorly invested into this. I only got this old Toshiba because it was cheap and handy at a time I needed headphone power. I would rather invest money in a Bottlehead Crack than go overboard into the vintage stuff, not that it's not cool in it's own reguards.
> ...


 
  
 You never know.  I never thought I'd be majorly invested in vintage stuff either, but it can be a little addictive when you get a nice vintage piece that oozes quality and tactile goodness.  But it is smart to start slow and see how it appeals to you.  It's very good that you're good with a soldering iron though - that and a little troubleshooting ability can really save you a lot of money.
  
 I have a Bottlehead Crack w/Speedball as well, by the way.  It does go great with the HD650's.
  
 The single digit Sansui's (Six, Seven, Eight, Eight Deluxe) are also very nice.  I didn't mention those the first time because they (esp the Eight and Eight Deluxe) can be a little more pricey.  But I've played with a Six as well, and it's a very well built receiver, so keep your eyes out for those as well.  Heck, even the 2000's, 4000's, 5000's are really nice too.  Basically, if it's 70's vintage, heavy, nice looking, and works, you should consider picking it up if the price is reasonable.
  
 Of course, that's how you can accumulate a ton of stuff pretty quickly as well. . .
  
 And then of course there's tube gear (Fisher, Scott, etc) - even easier to work on if you're handy with an iron.


----------



## pedalhead

Hi guys.  I've spent the past couple of days looking through (some of!) this thread.  Not sure whether I should be regretting it or not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !  Of course, it's impossible NOT to be fascinated in trying out a vintage amp/receiver after reading your enthusiastic posts & seeing the pictures of wonderfully built classic gear.
  
 So, the inevitable advice-seeking question!  It looks like most of the highly praised models mentioned on here are pretty expensive now on ebay/Gumtree, and being vintage-curious I don't want to spend a bunch to start, maybe a couple of hundred GBP.  I'm after something specifically for my headphones...HE-560 mainly...for now I won't be running speakers. Ideally, I'd like a slightly warmer than neutral sound, and really I'm only interested if I can get better sound quality than throwing a couple of hundred quid at a dedicated, modern, headphone amp.  A few examples of the kinds of things I'm seeing within my budget:
  
*Luxman R-800S*
*TEAC AS-M50*
*Fisher 801 (poor condition)*
*Marantz 2015*
*ROTEL RX-303*
*MARANTZ MR-215L*
*Pioneer SX-550 (and various similar models)*
*Kenwood KR-5010*
*ONKYO A-3000*
*Technics SU-3500 / SU-7700*
*Sony TA-F6B*
I wonder if any of these jump out as being suitable for me needs?  Any advice greatly appreciated!  Cheers.


----------



## levlhed

Just got the modded MHDT Havana Lab NOS DAC online and added the Vinyl Flat Can Opener to power Alpha Prime headphones off the Pioneer SA-9800 B speaker taps.
 I am no longer concerned I made a bad decision by selling the Leben CS300XS integrated tube amp.  Not saying I don't miss it at all though.


----------



## Skylab

levlhed said:


> Finally...Pioneer SA-9800 is in my clutches.
> Seller took over a week to ship it out, but at least it was packed well.  Ran it home @ lunch break to hook it up quick and verify there was nothing silly going on....seems to be cool after hasty test on both speakers and Alpha Prime's.
> 
> Crummy cell phone pic to prove it:




NICE! Congrats - that amp is on my bucket list


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> Got my 93 lbs of audio goodness on a flat dolly.


 
  What receiver do you have?


----------



## captouch

pedalhead said:


> Hi guys.  I've spent the past couple of days looking through (some of!) this thread.  Not sure whether I should be regretting it or not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You really have to take a look at the operating condition and bring your headphones to demo them with the unit.  Because some of these old units may have a relatively higher noise floor than what you'd find with a modern headphone amp, and you need to see whether that's the case and if so, whether that will bother you or not.
  
 And there's a pretty wide range of power in the list you have there.  The Marantz is only 15W, but should sound pretty warm and will have that classic vintage look with blue dial and silver face.  On other hand, the Sony is spec'd at 100W and looks somewhat more modern (but has the cool power meters which will dance with the music).  
  
 Really, most vintage units should have enough power for you, as you have the option to read the headphones directly from the speaker outputs if needed, with an adapter.  
  
 So it comes down to what you like the looks of (assuming that matters to you - it does to me), whether it's fairly priced relative to market (you can check completed auctions), condition, and operating condition.  If it were me, I'd do a bit of research and narrow it down to a handful or less.  I'd only buy locally so you can check the unit in person (so proximity to you may help you pare down your list).  All things being equal, I'd take a look at the Marantz 2015, Luxman, Pioneer, and Sony.


----------



## pedalhead

Great advice, thanks. Yes, the looks are of course very important, second only to sound quality . Am I right in thinking that one reason these 1970s amps sound so good through the headphone jack is that they don't tend to employ a headphone stage per se, but instead just put some resisters in there in front of the speaker outputs? Cheers.


----------



## captouch

pedalhead said:


> Great advice, thanks. Yes, the looks are of course very important, second only to sound quality . Am I right in thinking that one reason these 1970s amps sound so good through the headphone jack is that they don't tend to employ a headphone stage per se, but instead just put some resisters in there in front of the speaker outputs? Cheers.




Right, most just have dropping resistors that cut the power down to something that gives you more travel on the volume knob without risking blowing your headphone drivers.

I have a pair of HE-5LE's and have run them straight out of the speaker outputs (just using a four wire to XLR adapter). I haven't listened to headphones in quite some time though.

Nice thing is that these vintage receivers/integrateds can run speakers well, so you can have the best of both worlds and look good doing it. Vintage speakers is a whole other thing, and also great fun.


----------



## Oregonian

buson160man said:


> What receiver do you have?




Silent One has the most amazing Sansui G-22000 monster receiver.............


----------



## cakebreaker

Just noticed this thread. Very nice stuff. Thank you all for posting awesome pics. Impressive.
 I have the opportunity to buy JVC JA-S55. I think it is 1976-78. Does anyone happen to have it? Would be nice if you could share your experience. There is a very limited info about this amp on the internet. However, some people do claim that JVC used to be very much underrated back in the 70s and some of their gear is in fact really good including JA-S55.


----------



## pedalhead

I'm thinking of opening my vintage receiver account with a Luxman R1120. Not cheap but the specs looks pretty tasty and I understand they have a good rep...


----------



## SpeakerBox

pedalhead said:


> I'm thinking of opening my vintage receiver account with a Luxman R1120. Not cheap but the specs looks pretty tasty and I understand they have a good rep...


 
 That is a well regarded receiver.


----------



## pedalhead

speakerbox said:


> That is a well regarded receiver.




Thanks, it does seem to get a lot of good press online. It's not the prettiest receiver I've seen, compared to Pioneer & Marantz for example, but it sounds like it has plenty of musical chops. The extra electrostatic speaker output is a nice touch too. Have almost convinced myself to go for it


----------



## guitargonaut

I don't have a vintage receiver but I do have a vintage power amp.  I use a Parasound HCA-800ii to drive my Denon AH D5000 headphones by way of a Vinyl Flat Can Opener.  I don't know that the Denons have ever sounded so good.
  
 The Parasound has a headphone out but it suffers from a faint buzz that isn't noticeable while music is playing but can be heard during pauses.  Regardless, the Can Opener gives the Denons a wider soundstage and cleaner presentation.


----------



## Mr Rick

I currently have a SAE 8000 Tuner driving an SAE A7 Integrated Amplifier into a pair of Sony speakers. Until I can acquire a better listening area this system is relegated to background music duty. For any serious listening I use a headphone amp and a pair of cans.


----------



## buson160man

I saw on the internet a request for information regarding a old onkyo receiver from the middle seventies. Specifically the onkyo tx-670 . I used to own one of these and I remember purchasing it at the old Midwest hifi chain back then. I remember it sounding a lot better than the receivers made by most of the companies back then. I also seem to remember that it was the only receiver back then to post a 4 ohm nominal spec. The unit was kind of heavy and had a nice clean look to it. With a nice wooden case . I remember auditioning it and it clearly had superior sound quality to the pioneers sansuuis, scotts, technics and kenwoods of the day . The tuner was also exceptional sounding as well . I seem to remember that it was a phase lock loop tuner which was from what I remember unusual in stereo receivers at the time.
    It had two phono inputs as well. Later onkyo came out with a quartz lock tuner on their receivers. The later receivers had a more modern look to them . I preferred the older understated look of the older onkyos .
  The receiver eventually developed some instability issues with the amplifier section and I moved on from it. At that time onkyo was virtually a unknown brand at the time. The tx-670 was their top of the line receiver. The receiver had a nice understated look about it that I found appealing.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I had an Onkyo T-4055 Tuner that I have since sold (but wish I had not).  It was one of the great audio deals of the day (acclaimed by the high end press for its value).  Incredible sound.  Very nice look too - and to your point quite heavy for a tuner.


----------



## minionas

I'm offered Kenwood KA-907. Anyone used this beast? Does it have "unobtainiums" ? Planning to get HE-6. Wondering about synergy with Kenwood. Heaphone out adequatelly strong or speaker taps?
 Now listening to recabled HD650's on Yamaha Cr-600. I love this combo except of hiss which i get with my sennheisers. Other than that, it trumped my Schiit Lyr on all corners..
  
 Thanks,
 minionas


----------



## claybum

Yep....I have a kenwood ka 907. It'a a highly regarded piece and I certainly like mine. The headphone out will make the HE 6 sing!!! It will, however, not add any warmth or coloration to the sound. The 907 is very detailed and neutral. Mine is fully recapped I have not heard about unobtainable parts. I have heard that it is a pain to work on. 
  
 Good luck and maybe get a back brace when transporting...it's way heavy!!


----------



## minionas

Thanks claybum !


----------



## AWP3888

Just got a Pioneer SX-580 to use with my headphones. Tested the output with a pair of Nova-8b speakers and my HiFiMan Re-400 buds. Good volume and tone, more bass than I was expecting, good thing I has both bass and treble tone controls.


----------



## buson160man

minionas said:


> I'm offered Kenwood KA-907. Anyone used this beast? Does it have "unobtainiums" ? Planning to get HE-6. Wondering about synergy with Kenwood. Heaphone out adequatelly strong or speaker taps?
> Now listening to recabled HD650's on Yamaha Cr-600. I love this combo except of hiss which i get with my sennheisers. Other than that, it trumped my Schiit Lyr on all corners..
> 
> Thanks,
> minionas


 

  The kenwood sure looks pretty and the innards  look very impressively built. I checked out some photos of it on the net. I am not familiar with the ka 907 but if you base value  judgements  on the build quality it looks to be a home run . Beast is probably a good way to describe this integrated amp. What was the power rating on this beast?


----------



## minionas

it's only 150W into 8ohms.. and i think it is moderately speaking still as it has to have even more muscles than this im sure


----------



## pedalhead

Hi guys.   I'm gradually working my way through this entire thread...it's very entertaining reading!  I've got this Luxman SQ507X arriving tomorrow (and a monster R-1120 to follow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and I'm wondering what the theory is as to whether there are any advantages for a headphone like the HE-560 to be connected straight into the speaker taps rather than the headphone socket on these '70s units? I'm suspecting not, as there should be plenty of power available on the headphone socket, but if it's definitely worth a try on the speaker taps then I'll get a cable adapter ordered.  Cheers!


----------



## CJG888

On an integrated of this vintage, the headphone socket will be connected directly to the speaker taps via a resistor!

You may want to upgrade the resistor to a higher quality component, otherwise I'd use the socket on the front of the amp, as nature intended....


----------



## pedalhead

cjg888 said:


> On an integrated of this vintage, the headphone socket will be connected directly to the speaker taps via a resistor!
> 
> You may want to upgrade the resistor to a higher quality component, otherwise I'd use the socket on the front of the amp, as nature intended....


 
  
 Yep, that's what I figured.  Thanks!


----------



## CJG888

A couple of Vishay resistors on the headphone out, a thorough cleaning of the socket with Deoxit, and you're in business!

In fact, you'll see off most dedicated headphone amps south of 1K bucks...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Or if you have the bucks Shinkoh resistors are very highly regarded (but out of production 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 That said Parts Connexion still has some:  http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_shinkoh.html
  
 I am using them in a Pass Labs DIY project that I am currently working on.


----------



## Oregonian

pedalhead said:


> Hi guys.   I'm gradually working my way through this entire thread...it's very entertaining reading!  I've got this Luxman SQ507X arriving tomorrow (and a monster R-1120 to follow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The big "get" is for the HiFiMan HE-6.  I ran my HE-6 out of the headphone out of my Spec 1 preamp/Spec 2 amp system and then tried it direct off speaker taps with an adapter.  No comparison - the speaker tap sound was amazing and was basically the same volume position as using my D7000 from headphone out. 
  
 I'm far from an expert on this - some other headphones may benefit but the only experience I have is the HE-6.  That headphone continues to amaze me.  Never, ever thought a headphone could sound that good. 
  
 Nice ^ get by the way!  Congrats and welcome to the best thread on Head Fi!


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks guys, good info.  Should I expect a significant improvement by replacing the resisters on the headphone out?  Obviously I'll spend a good deal of time with it as it is, but it's handy to know where I should start looking if I want to make some improvements without affecting the sound character of the amp.
  
 Oregonian - I've not heard an HE-6 (yet - there'll be one at our UK meet in April), but I have read that they benefit in particular from being connected via the speaker taps. Happy to hear it's probably not required for the far easier to drive HE-560.


----------



## AWP3888

cjg888 said:


> A couple of Vishay resistors on the headphone out, a thorough cleaning of the socket with Deoxit, and you're in business!
> 
> In fact, you'll see off most dedicated headphone amps south of 1K bucks...


 
  
  
 CJG888~
  
 Would you directly replace the resistors with same values as the OEM setup on the Headphone jack stage from the Amp?
  > or would it be necessary to do some testing to find the correct setup?


----------



## pedalhead

awp3888 said:


> CJG888~
> 
> Would you directly replace the resistors with same values as the OEM setup on the Headphone jack stage from the Amp?
> > or would it be necessary to do some testing to find the correct setup?


 
  
 I was just wondering that as well.  Looking at a rather aged schematic for this amp for example, I think it's using 680R 1w resistors to the headphone socket.


----------



## SpeakerBox

pedalhead said:


> I was just wondering that as well.  Looking at a rather aged schematic for this amp for example, I think it's using 680R 1w resistors to the headphone socket.


 
  
 In theory you would use the same resistor that is in the amp now (only better quality).  You could just pop the top and read the color codes or measure.  I don't even think you should have to lift one end to measure, as the jack end should be open without phones plugged in.


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> What receiver do you have?


 
 I have the diminutive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Sansui G-22000
 Sadly, it's been in storage the past few months. Along with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the rest of my gears.
  


oregonian said:


> Silent One has the most amazing Sansui G-22000 monster receiver.............


 
 You are kind.


----------



## moodyrn

minionas said:


> I'm offered Kenwood KA-907. Anyone used this beast? Does it have "unobtainiums" ? Planning to get HE-6. Wondering about synergy with Kenwood. Heaphone out adequatelly strong or speaker taps?
> Now listening to recabled HD650's on Yamaha Cr-600. I love this combo except of hiss which i get with my sennheisers. Other than that, it trumped my Schiit Lyr on all corners..
> 
> Thanks,
> minionas


 
  
 I did own this lovely beast for a while. And yes it is conservatively rated. That 150 wpc rating comes in at an extremely low distortion(.0005 if I remember correctly). And at around .05% distortion, it will have no problem hitting over 200 wpc rms. One owner compared the drive capability to his sx1980. I can't confirm if that's true, but it is a powerhouse! Sonically speaking, don't expect it to warm up or color the music in any way. This is one of the most neutral amplifiers I've listened to and it's a true "wire with gain" amplifier. In that regard it reminds me a lot of my fisher 500c. It's also brutally revealing, and super detailed, and the ultimate truth teller. I will have to respectfully disagree with Claybum on the drive capablitity of the headphone output. It's plenty powerful enough to drive the he6 to moderate levels. But as you increase the volume, they will began to looes their composure a bit. But on other hand, the preamp is just outstanding. It's as good as a stand alone preamp. This thing has to ability to drive sensitive iems while providing an extremely quiet background at the same time; still having decent range on the volume knob. That is quiet a feat when you look at it's powerful enough to drive the he6 to moderately loud levels. So there's no need to ever have to use the -20db button to lower the gain.
  
 This also mean you can drive the he6 using the speaker taps with an equally black background, and still have a good range out of the volume knob. The volume knob itself is also impressive. It can be used as a murder weapon literally. It's a solid heavy piece of milled aluminum and probable weighs a few pounds by itself. Like Claybum also stated, the build quality is just second to none. Overall it easily surpasses the sx1250/1280 in the sound department which is no small feat.  But it is extremely hard to work on, and most don't even want to touch is. So finding someone to restore it will be extremely difficult.


----------



## AWP3888

speakerbox said:


> pedalhead said:
> 
> 
> > I was just wondering that as well.  Looking at a rather aged schematic for this amp for example, I think it's using 680R 1w resistors to the headphone socket.
> ...


 
  
  
 To that: it seems that the SX-580 has some noise floor issues above 50% volume (output from the Headphone jack).
  > Is that something that might be resolved, in-addition to the sound quality, by replacing the Resistors ?
  
 I do plan on preforming a full DeOxit cleaning on the controls and the internals before I put this into "production" but if anyone has some good Ideas on addressing the noise floor issue that would be appreciated.


----------



## CJG888

I'd also stick to the stock values. At the time this amp was current, headphone impedances varied widely (from 8 ohm Japanese models with cone drivers to 600 ohm Sennheisers and Beyers).

Oh, and I'd also check the PSU reservoir caps before powering up. It's an old amp, and electrolytics can leak or dry out over time....


----------



## lithium1085

I have always wanted to get into vintage amps and I am happy to say that I have taken the jump recently. I recently obtained a very well maintained single owner Onkyo A7 from 1977. I intend to use it only as a headphone amplifier at present and I was very impressed with its stepped attenuator volume control and the handy muting switch. I believe it outputs 60 watts at 8 ohm
  
 I did notice in my first few days of use that the headphone output is causing a weird frequency response from my low impedance sensitive dynamic headphones. I can however adjust for this using the excellent tone controls and I understand that this likely due to the high output impedance of the amp. I  surprisingly noted that I had to play everything at max volume as otherwise the volume is not enough. I listen at average volumes with a passing fancy for more loudness and I would definitely like to have some more volume.
  
 As this is my first vintage, I was wondering if this is something commonly encountered? Do you think tapping the speaker outputs is the best way to go? as always any and all input is welcome. 
 P.S- before someone asks/speculates the muting button is functional - I have checked it already


----------



## PhoenixG

lithium1085 said:


> I have always wanted to get into vintage amps and I am happy to say that I have taken the jump recently. I recently obtained a very well maintained single owner Onkyo A7 from 1977. I intend to use it only as a headphone amplifier at present and I was very impressed with its stepped attenuator volume control and the handy muting switch. I believe it outputs 60 watts at 8 ohm
> 
> I did notice in my first few days of use that the headphone output is causing a weird frequency response from my low impedance sensitive dynamic headphones. I can however adjust for this using the excellent tone controls and I understand that this likely due to the high output impedance of the amp. I  surprisingly noted that I had to play everything at max volume as otherwise the volume is not enough. I listen at average volumes with a passing fancy for more loudness and I would definitely like to have some more volume.
> 
> ...


 
 No, that's not normal. I'd say that the headphone output should be indicative of how the whole amp sounds. 60W should be plenty to knock your socks off. If I had that happening, I'd first check my inputs. I.E. did I plug a line level input into the phono input or is my input level too low. Next, I'd check the pre-power amp jumpers if the amp is divided. Often you will still get low volume bleed-over even without them installed. Third, some deoxit might shake loose something that was in the way of your music. Finally, consider taking it to a tech if none of these things fix it. Between the frequency response problem and volume problem, something isn't right.


----------



## lithium1085

phoenixg said:


> No, that's not normal. I'd say that the headphone output should be indicative of how the whole amp sounds. 60W should be plenty to knock your socks off. If I had that happening, I'd first check my inputs. I.E. did I plug a line level input into the phono input or is my input level too low. Next, I'd check the pre-power amp jumpers if the amp is divided. Often you will still get low volume bleed-over even without them installed. Third, some deoxit might shake loose something that was in the way of your music. Finally, consider taking it to a tech if none of these things fix it. Between the frequency response problem and volume problem, something isn't right.


 
  
 I am using the the aux input at present and the pre power jumpers are in position, I will check if they are loose later today. Thanks for the input PhoenixG...I was very surprised with this as well as my HD 598s are not much of a load at all. I will check about the input levels as well. I really hope to get this working soon.


----------



## minionas

moodyrn said:


> I did own this lovely beast for a while. And yes it is conservatively rated. That 150 wpc rating comes in at an extremely low distortion(.0005 if I remember correctly). And at around .05% distortion, it will have no problem hitting over 200 wpc rms. One owner compared the drive capability to his sx1980. I can't confirm if that's true, but it is a powerhouse! Sonically speaking, don't expect it to warm up or color the music in any way. This is one of the most neutral amplifiers I've listened to and it's a true "wire with gain" amplifier. In that regard it reminds me a lot of my fisher 500c. It's also brutally revealing, and super detailed, and the ultimate truth teller. I will have to respectfully disagree with Claybum on the drive capablitity of the headphone output. It's plenty powerful enough to drive the he6 to moderate levels. But as you increase the volume, they will began to looes their composure a bit. But on other hand, the preamp is just outstanding. It's as good as a stand alone preamp. This thing has to ability to drive sensitive iems while providing an extremely quiet background at the same time; still having decent range on the volume knob. That is quiet a feat when you look at it's powerful enough to drive the he6 to moderately loud levels. So there's no need to ever have to use the -20db button to lower the gain.
> 
> This also mean you can drive the he6 using the speaker taps with an equally black background, and still have a good range out of the volume knob. The volume knob itself is also impressive. It can be used as a murder weapon literally. It's a solid heavy piece of milled aluminum and probable weighs a few pounds by itself. Like Claybum also stated, the build quality is just second to none. Overall it easily surpasses the sx1250/1280 in the sound department which is no small feat.  But it is extremely hard to work on, and most don't even want to touch is. So finding someone to restore it will be extremely difficult.


 
  
 Hi moodyrn,
  
 Thanks, for very informative post! So i think temporally HD650 are super match for such detailed neutral amp..my yammy is also more detailed than my recently sold Lyr and i like it a lot.
 Will see how it goes with the seller, what condition it is.. price is ~720USD..


----------



## moodyrn

That's a decent price. Given it's rarity, prices seem to be all over the place on the rare occasion one do come available. I've seem them go for as much as 1400 and as little as 600.00(very beat up for that price though). So if it's in good condition, that's not too bad. And yes, it should really be a great match for the hd650. I hope all goes well with the seller. I would like to own one again to test my skills at doing a restore since I've become halfway decent at it since selling mine.


----------



## pedalhead

Hi guys.  Well, my Luxman SQ-507X arrived today.  Unfortunately, it was the victim of an idiotic delivery person.  We'd popped out for a short bike ride & returned to see the box left outside the house, in plain view, in the flippin' RAIN!  Not only that, but the box was clearly labelled "THIS WAY UP".  No prizes for guessing which way it WASN'T up.  Unsurprisingly, there's damage to the wood surround 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
   
  
  
 Gutted, as otherwise it looks pretty decent...
  
  
  
 I let it warm up a bit & plugged it in...phew, power light comes on.  Then I tried a feed from my Geek Out & plug in some sacrificial ear buds...right channel not working 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  After a bit of troubleshooting, it fortunately turned out to be the 3.5mm to dual phono cable I was using...phew!  
  
 Anyway, a brief listen through my HE-560s...wow...a gobfull of power!  I also had a quick listen through my Sonus Faber Walls...beautiful...although requires the attenuation switch to be enabled or the noise floor is quite high and I can only turn the knob a few mm.  The pots and switches need cleaning for sure as there are some intermittent crackles and balance issues, but I can tell this is going to be rather special...


----------



## Magick Man

I need another receiver/amp like I need a hole in my head, but I found a Pioneer A-27 integrated in Florida recently. It seemed to work fine but I had it shipped directly to my electronics guy for him to check out thoroughly. When I told him about it he became more excited than I was (which is saying a lot).


----------



## Oregonian

magick man said:


> I need another receiver/amp like I need a hole in my head, but I found a Pioneer A-27 integrated in Florida recently. It seemed to work fine but I had it shipped directly to my electronics guy for him to check out thoroughly. When I told him about it he became more excited than I was (which is saying a lot).


 

 Congrats!  Can't wait to see the pics of it..............


----------



## Oregonian

pedalhead said:


> Hi guys.  Well, my Luxman SQ-507X arrived today.  Unfortunately, it was the victim of an idiotic delivery person.  We'd popped out for a short bike ride & returned to see the box left outside the house, in plain view, in the flippin' RAIN!  Not only that, but the box was clearly labelled "THIS WAY UP".  No prizes for guessing which way it WASN'T up.  Unsurprisingly, there's damage to the wood surround
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats!  That's a beaut...................


----------



## pedalhead

oregonian said:


> Congrats!  That's a beaut...................


 
  
 Thanks mate. It is indeed lovely...even more so in the flesh.  The seller has agreed to a £50 refund to cover the damage, which I hope will cover a decent repair (I paid £235 for the amp).  Cheers.


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats on getting it mostly intact. From the pics it looks like a fairly easy fix. It is a really nice looking amp though.


----------



## pedalhead

Cheers!  It deserves a good repair I reckon..too pretty for a bodge, so I'm gonna look up a decent cabinet maker & see what he/she quotes.


----------



## dogwan

pedalhead said:


> Hi guys.  Well, my Luxman SQ-507X arrived today.  Unfortunately, it was the victim of an idiotic delivery person.  We'd popped out for a short bike ride & returned to see the box left outside the house, in plain view, in the flippin' RAIN!  Not only that, but the box was clearly labelled "THIS WAY UP".  No prizes for guessing which way it WASN'T up.  Unsurprisingly, there's damage to the wood surround
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lovely amp there!
  
 If I were you I would open it up for a visual inspection even if it is working. That broken wood indicates a pretty rough journey. Look for loose boards and especially heavy items like transformers that might have flexed their mounts. I have a Nakamichi TA-3A that arrived doa (not a sale, so no recourse) and it took me a long time to track it down to the small transformer breaking all of its solder pads free. The dent in the back corner should have been my 1st clue. After repairing the transformer it would power up but still no sound. A couple larger resistors on main amp board were stood off the board for heat dissipation and the same thing, they had broken their solder pads free from the force of whatever hit it took. Even so, everything "looked" good from the top.


----------



## dogwan

How about a little MCS love!
  
 Last night I changed things up a little. Normally use my Matrix M-stage w/ Fostex T50rp's in the bedroom for HP listening. But I decided to try my AKG K-400's on the MCS. Don't know why I've never tried this out before. Great synergy and way better bass with the AKG on this little 20w amp than the Matrix.
  
 -MCS 3823 integrated amp.
 -MCS 3723 tuner (both made by NEC)
 -Polk Monitor 4's (early version with Peerless tweets)
 -AKG K-400 with custom cable and K-701 pads.


----------



## pedalhead

dogwan said:


> Lovely amp there!
> 
> If I were you I would open it up for a visual inspection even if it is working. That broken wood indicates a pretty rough journey. Look for loose boards and especially heavy items like transformers that might have flexed their mounts. I have a Nakamichi TA-3A that arrived doa (not a sale, so no recourse) and it took me a long time to track it down to the small transformer breaking all of its solder pads free. The dent in the back corner should have been my 1st clue. After repairing the transformer it would power up but still no sound. A couple larger resistors on main amp board were stood off the board for heat dissipation and the same thing, they had broken their solder pads free from the force of whatever hit it took. Even so, everything "looked" good from the top.




Thanks for the advice. Yes I'll definitely be doing an internal inspection but that'll have to wait a few days as we're moving this weekend so the Luxman is already boxed up & ready to travel. Will be giving it a good Deoxit at the same time. Cheers.


----------



## harrinj

I picked up a Pioneer SA-6800 amp yesterday and matching tuner. This is the most lively amp I've heard and I was surpised how light and narrow it is/was but looks great from the front. The fluorometer is certainly unique. Neat little amp indeed. Now to find a 9800... (he-he)


----------



## Oregonian

Pic of that Pioneer??????


----------



## moodyrn

Congrats that is a nice amp in both sound and looks, the 9800 is still on my short list.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> Congrats that is a nice amp in both sound and looks, the 9800 is still on my short list.




Yup, as it is on mine. Someday


----------



## nick n

dogwan said:


> How about a little MCS love!
> 
> Last night I changed things up a little. Normally use my Matrix M-stage w/ Fostex T50rp's in the bedroom for HP listening. But I decided to try my AKG K-400's on the MCS. Don't know why I've never tried this out before. Great synergy and way better bass with the AKG on this little 20w amp than the Matrix.
> 
> ...


----------



## BobG55

Well my fellow Head-fiers I need your advice, if you don't mind.  I can buy a Kenwood KA-907, in good working condition, for $750.00 CDN.  I will offer $700.00 & see but I digress.
 I've read a couple of recent posts about this amp on this thread, saying that it's an extremely difficult amp to service.  On the other hand I also read that it's so neutral that it's the closest amp to the 500C sound wise.  So, what to do ?  Is the price reasonable ?  Since it is a vintage amp it could require servicing in the near future & if it's difficult to service .... There's no perfect answer, I realize that but I'd still like to know what some of you think.  
  
 Thank you.


----------



## lithium1085

lithium1085 said:


> I have always wanted to get into vintage amps and I am happy to say that I have taken the jump recently. I recently obtained a very well maintained single owner Onkyo A7 from 1977. I intend to use it only as a headphone amplifier at present and I was very impressed with its stepped attenuator volume control and the handy muting switch. I believe it outputs 60 watts at 8 ohm
> 
> I did notice in my first few days of use that the headphone output is causing a weird frequency response from my low impedance sensitive dynamic headphones. I can however adjust for this using the excellent tone controls and I understand that this likely due to the high output impedance of the amp. I  surprisingly noted that I had to play everything at max volume as otherwise the volume is not enough. I listen at average volumes with a passing fancy for more loudness and I would definitely like to have some more volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
   


phoenixg said:


> No, that's not normal. I'd say that the headphone output should be indicative of how the whole amp sounds. 60W should be plenty to knock your socks off. If I had that happening, I'd first check my inputs. I.E. did I plug a line level input into the phono input or is my input level too low. Next, I'd check the pre-power amp jumpers if the amp is divided. Often you will still get low volume bleed-over even without them installed. Third, some deoxit might shake loose something that was in the way of your music. Finally, consider taking it to a tech if none of these things fix it. Between the frequency response problem and volume problem, something isn't right.


 
  
  


lithium1085 said:


> I am using the the aux input at present and the pre power jumpers are in position, I will check if they are loose later today. Thanks for the input PhoenixG...I was very surprised with this as well as my HD 598s are not much of a load at all. I will check about the input levels as well. I really hope to get this working soon.


 

  
 I had posted about this issue earlier and was not able to respond as I was travelling. I am happy to report that PhoenixG was absolutely right about more than enough power. The Onkyo A7 is now purring smoothly and I am very impressed with its quality. The bass detail on this fine specimen is mind blowing!
 It turns out that the issue was my lack of information and attention to detail.
 I noticed finally that the monitor switch was on Tape since the time I received the amp and obviously I still had enough headphone output (with distortions) due to bleedthrough at full volume.
 Once I put it to source, the tremendous power output kicked in and now I am using it with the -20db muting switching in place. The distortions in frequency response have obviously disappeared as well. I am putting some pictures now for everyone's viewing pleasure. Thanks again for the Help PhoenixG
 .


----------



## PhoenixG

lithium1085 said:


> I had posted about this issue earlier and was not able to respond as I was travelling. I am happy to report that PhoenixG was absolutely right about more than enough power. The Onkyo A7 is now purring smoothly and I am very impressed with its quality. The bass detail on this fine specimen is mind blowing!
> It turns out that the issue was my lack of information and attention to detail.
> I noticed finally that the monitor switch was on Tape since the time I received the amp and obviously I still had enough headphone output (with distortions) due to bleedthrough at full volume.
> Once I put it to source, the tremendous power output kicked in and now I am using it with the -20db muting switching in place. The distortions in frequency response have obviously disappeared as well. I am putting some pictures now for everyone's viewing pleasure. Thanks again for the Help PhoenixG
> .


 
 Glad I could help get it back up and running! Enjoy it!


----------



## captouch

bobg55 said:


> Well my fellow Head-fiers I need your advice, if you don't mind.  I can buy a Kenwood KA-907, in good working condition, for $750.00 CDN.  I will offer $700.00 & see but I digress.
> I've read a couple of recent posts about this amp on this thread, saying that it's an extremely difficult amp to service.  On the other hand I also read that it's so neutral that it's the closest amp to the 500C sound wise.  So, what to do ?  Is the price reasonable ?  Since it is a vintage amp it could require servicing in the near future & if it's difficult to service .... There's no perfect answer, I realize that but I'd still like to know what some of you think.
> 
> Thank you.


 
  
 Well, I'm not familiar with that model, but here are the considerations I would think about:
  
 If it's original/unrestored, it will require servicing at some point since the caps are >35yrs old.  If you can do the work yourself and it's a reasonably easy unit to access boards to do the work, that's not a big deal.  But if you say it's  an extremely difficult to service, you either better be good/experienced to undertake the servicing, or willing to pay a fair amount of dough to get it serviced.  If you're not going to service it yourself, be prepared to add another $300-400 to your purchase price.  Then the question becomes: is the unit worth $1000-1100 to you?
  
 Now, you can use it as is until something actually does go wrong, but you just have to hope that when something does go wrong, it doesn't take expensive headphones or speakers with it.  And then you'll have to make that decision then whether to invest $ to fix it or sell it for parts/repair.  Likely, if you want to fix it, you'll have to invest more than the $300-400 you would have had to spend to restore it while it work working.  Because once something goes wrong, you have to find out what went wrong, fix the root cause and all other components that might have been taken out by the component that failed (such as output transistors or other transistors that wouldn't normally fail on their own), and then maybe recap the rest to avoid it all happening again.  If you're paying someone to do that, you'll be paying for the troubleshooting time as well.
  
 This model appears to be a monster integrated with 150W.  Are you planning on running it with lower efficiency speakers or wanting to get to extremely high volumes?  If so, then maybe you need that power.  But if you're just planning on running it with headphones, it's pretty safe to say you don't need that kind of power and you can get by with a lower model and lower price.
  
 Also, once you're getting into that kind of money ($700 untouched, or $1000-1100 restored), you're in the territory where you can actually get a 500C if that's what you're really looking for.  Tube units like the 500C ARE generally easier to service yourself. because it's point to point assembled and you can trace the connections visually (vs buried traces in PCBs that become harder to digest).  And on the tube units, there are fewer things to actually have to replace (some can caps, some coupling caps, maybe a selenium rectifier).
  
 Plus, a 500C or similar would likely be easier to sell if you wanted to move on to another piece later.
  
 So if it were me, I'd only consider it if I really needed the power, were capable of restoring the unit myself, and liked the sound of this particular model.  I've never spent more than about $250 for a solid state receiver for the above reasons, but have spent $300-400 on tube units because I have confidence I can get them where they need to be reliable and resell them relatively easily.
  
 Just food for thought.  Good luck in your decision.


----------



## Zulkr9

Can anybody tell me how vintage recievers sound compared to the modern headphone amps and which models are good, I was looking at yamaha cr620 and the cr820. Not sure if they are any good but they are pretty cheap and look good !


----------



## MinedSafe

It all depends on the model make and year. Over the years I did restored few. Usually most of them need to be recapped completely. Pots, usually source selectors are a big trouble and sometimes very hard to get as well. Some of the Vintage amps suffer from high THD and noise levels. Some of them might have the transistors taking a last breath and in most of the cases there are unavailable. While u can get the similar ones it wont be the same amp any more. Once u get a good one u can be very happy with a sound. Say I have Sansui A101 witch is a simple and efficient construction for headphones. Easy to modify and easy to fix. I always play with resistors on the headphone out, the lower the resistance the higher the noise, depending on the headphones.
  
 When it comes to sound:
  
 It be either thin and not to spacious or quite warm and not to airy. Generally u can always modify the sound to suit your tastes but it does take time and money changing cables and capacitors, straightening the paths and disconnecting useless stuff ( loudness ) Most of them are not worth the money just to power the headphones. Look for cheap but well regarded lower models for headphones at the beginning. I can recommend Sansui and Proton. This will get u started and it might be end of the game, as for me. I very happy with my AU101 sound its transparent and well balanced at this stage. Sounds 3 times  better than say Fiio 12 or any other Chinese tube amp within the price range. Can power any headphones as well I never passed 9oc on the volume pot.


----------



## Magick Man

oregonian said:


> Congrats!  Can't wait to see the pics of it..............




This is going to be a while, I've been told that apparently the A-27 is going to need a complete recap, despite sounding fine during my quick audition in the store when I bought it (means nothing, I know).


----------



## BobG55

captouch said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Well my fellow Head-fiers I need your advice, if you don't mind.  I can buy a Kenwood KA-907, in good working condition, for $750.00 CDN.  I will offer $700.00 & see but I digress.
> ...


 

 Thanks *captouch*, that's exactly the type of feedback I was looking for.  Greatly appreciated.  I think I'll pas on the amp.


----------



## pedalhead

Hi guys. My Deoxit order arrived so I opened up the Luxman SQ507X for a poke around and a good cleaning last night. The pots & sockets needed a bloomin' good clean, which explains why the sound was so scratchy. I played it safe and left it to dry overnight (my first time using Deoxit...I probably used a bit too much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ).
  
 I'm not prone to hyperbole when commenting on audio as it's so easy to fool oneself, but in this case I have to say I'm thrilled because this ~40 year old girl is giving me exactly what I was hoping for with my HE-560s. I find these headphones can be a bit harsh, but I love the detail and bass impact. I read that these early transistor Luxman's have a tube flavour, and I can now absolutely confirm that. Before cleaning the amp, I wasn't quite hearing the level of detail and clarity I get straight from the Geek Out, but I could tell is was injecting a nice (but not too heavy) warm flavour.  
  
 Now it's cleaned, I'm A-B'ing with the GO and I'm hearing similar levels of detail, but the Luxman retains that lovely warm musicality that tames the harshness I was hearing with the HE-560s. Streaming Diana Krall's _Wallflower _via Tidal, her voice is rich & silky smooth...simply more realistic through the Luxman.  The Bill Evans Trio's _Waltz For Debby_ is probably my favourite live jazz recording for giving you the "feels like I'm in that jazz club" vibe. It sounds close-your-eyes wonderful with this combo.  Happy days for pedalhead, and a big thanks to all of you guys on this thread who have shared your knowledge & enthusiasm for these old things. I otherwise wouldn't have thought to look at a vintage amp.


----------



## MinedSafe

Now check the Bias and Change the Caps  This will bring this Luxman to a new different level I think I saw someone doing the full recap on this. I will take a while and money but It's defo worth it.


----------



## pedalhead

minedsafe said:


> Now check the Bias and Change the Caps  This will bring this Luxman to a new different level I think I saw someone doing the full recap on this. I will take a while and money but It's defo worth it.


 
  
 Ha!  Clearly I have more to learn .  Would cap replacement alter the flavour of the sound?  I'd hate to lose the character of the amp.


----------



## MinedSafe

Not going into detail but u can spend 3times as much on caps as u did on amp. Panasonic FC on power and maybe Elna or Nichicon Muse be good choice. U can get a real fancy caps 200e each  just dont go that road.


----------



## Skylab

If you have a DMM, checking the DC offset is a good idea. But unless you really feel confident, adjusting the bias isn't something to do unless the amp is running super hot. You can fry your outputs if you screw up the bias adjustment.

Also, if you LOVE the amp, recapping is a good idea, again if you are very confident in your soldering skills. But otherwise, unless one has a true TOTL unit that will hold value well, it's probably not worth spending the money to have someone else recap it.


----------



## pedalhead

skylab said:


> If you have a DMM, checking the DC offset is a good idea. But unless you really feel confident, adjusting the bias isn't something to do unless the amp is running super hot. You can fry your outputs if you screw up the bias adjustment.
> 
> Also, if you LOVE the amp, recapping is a good idea, again if you are very confident in your soldering skills. But otherwise, unless one has a true TOTL unit that will hold value well, it's probably not worth spending the money to have someone else recap it.


 
  
 Thanks mate.  I'm keen to learn, but currently a bit of an electronics dummy. For now, I reckon I'll just enjoy the amp & see how it goes.  I also have another one coming next month, a totl Luxman R-1120.  That'll give me a chance to compare the two &  decide if I want to invest any more £££ into either of them. I have to say, this one sure is pretty to look at, which is almost worth the price alone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## buson160man

pedalhead said:


> Thanks mate.  I'm keen to learn, but currently a bit of an electronics dummy. For now, I reckon I'll just enjoy the amp & see how it goes.  I also have another one coming next month, a totl Luxman R-1120.  That'll give me a chance to compare the two &  decide if I want to invest any more £££ into either of them. I have to say, this one sure is pretty to look at, which is almost worth the price alone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Yeah she sure looks a lot nicer than my humdrum looking concept 16.5 receiver. Looks are part of the pride of ownership among other things.


----------



## Mr Rick

I'm using an SAE A7 Integrated Amplifier and a SAE 8000 Tuner................and a bunch of other Schiit.


----------



## SirMarc

mr rick said:


> I'm using an SAE A7 Integrated Amplifier and a SAE 8000 Tuner................and a bunch of other Schiit.


Nice! Here's my little set up. Aune t1 with amperex 7308 tube dac and Asgard 2 for digital files, and a dynaco sca-50 for my thorens td 145 and oppo for sacds and DVD audios


----------



## buson160man

Here is an interesting thought. I imagine the performance of parts over the last thirty some years have improved somewhat in their general capability . I am not technically inclined but I can imagine because performance parameters of parts has increased somewhat in the last thirty years things will improve . So when someone does a restoration on an old vintage piece that it could be entirely possible that the piece has much better sound then it did back in the day when it was built. And obviously when someone uses premium parts available today that increase in performance is exponentially increased.
    By the way might I suggest that anyone who has a vintage piece that has been restored or resurrected in a sense I have found at least in my case (I have only recently around six months ago joined the brotherhood of vintage equipment owners) that upgrading the fuses on these vintage pieces can make a noticeable improvement in sound quality. I replaced both rear panel fuses with isoclean fuses and it made a pretty big improvement in my recapped vintage piece. Just a suggestion and one that is easily reversible though I doubt anyone would go back once you have heard the improvement.
    Getting back to my original point any comments about the performance increases made by restorations of these old vintage pieces would be appreciated.


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> Nice! Here's my little set up. Aune t1 with amperex 7308 tube dac and Asgard 2 for digital files, and a dynaco sca-50 for my thorens td 145 and oppo for sacds and DVD audios taking it over to peoples houses and loved to see the reaction on peoples faces when they hooked it up and it trounced their receivers sonically making a lot if not most of them sound like


 
  I used to own a tweaked dynaco sca 35 tube integrated amp it was a honey. It is a pity that it was stolen from me I missed it very much. Of course it was my fault for being so trusting in lending it to someone that I apparently should not have trusted. I called back and the number had been disconnected and the person had moved and no longer lived there . I used to refer to it as a pocket battleship. I remember  taking it over to peoples houses and enjoying the look on their faces when they hooked it up when it trounced most if not all of their modern transistor receivers making them sound like transistor radios. How could this 25 watt per channel tube amp sound that much better than their modern transistor receivers. The build quality on this old pieces put a lot of these new receivers to shame. Of course the rebuilt sca 35 had much better parts than it originally had .  I think it cost me around five hundred dollars for the amp and the rebuild .
    I had a thorens td 145 mk II as well for awhile it was my first belt driven turntable. It was pretty decent sounding but the isotrack tonearm with its removable tonearm wand was probably its
 weakest link.


----------



## Mr Rick

buson160man said:


> Here is an interesting thought. I imagine the performance of parts over the last thirty some years have improved somewhat in their general capability . I am not technically inclined but I imagine that performance parameters of parts has increased somewhat in the last thirty years . So when someone does a restoration on an old vintage piece that it could be entirely possible that the piece has much better sound then it did back in the day when it was built. And obviously when someone uses premium parts available today that increase in performance is exponentially increased.
> By the way might I suggest that anyone who has a vintage piece that has been restored or resurrected in a sense I have found at least in my case (I have only recently around six months ago joined the brotherhood of vintage equipment owners) that upgrading the fuses on these vintage pieces can make a noticeable improvement in sound quality. I replaced both rear panel fuses with isoclean fuses and it made a pretty big improvement in my recapped vintage piece. Just a suggestion and one that is easily reversible though I doubt anyone would go back once you have heard the improvement.
> Getting back to my original point any comments about the performance increases made by restorations of these old vintage pieces would be appreciated.


 
 Improved SQ by replacing the fuses? I'm sorry. This made me laugh out loud.


----------



## SirMarc

Yeah, I prefer the tp16 mk1 arm on my 145. Bitch to align the cartridge with the big headshell though. Damn man, too bad about the dynaco. Don't love the amp with my tube dac, which is why I got the Asgard 2, but the phono stage pairs very well with my turntable. Good stuff...


----------



## captouch

buson160man said:


> Yeah she sure looks a lot nicer than my humdrum looking concept 16.5 receiver. Looks are part of the pride of ownership among other things.




I agree on the looks. To a point, I'll take a classy/sexy looking piece that is a step below a pedestrian or ugly piece that sounds somewhat better.


----------



## buson160man

Spotted a fisher 800 b at a local shop that sells used pieces as well. It looked to be in very good condition. The unit has over twenty tubes boy must it cost a fortune to retube it . They were asking 999.99 usd. It was with a case looked to be in excellent condition. I wish I had the space  but unfortunately I do not have much of that in my smallish apartment it would have been a nice complement to my concept 16.5( I have to put it on the floor). Oh well maybe if I win the powerball . Wishful  thinking.


----------



## buson160man

mr rick said:


> Improved SQ by replacing the fuses? I'm sorry. This made me laugh out loud.


 

  Do not laugh until you try it. I have upgrade the fuses in most all of my equipment and it definitely improved the sound quality on all the pieces. The improvement is easily heard.


----------



## Mr Rick

buson160man said:


> Do not laugh until you try it. I have upgrade the fuses in most all of my equipment and it definitely improved the sound quality on all the pieces. The improvement is easily heard.


 
 So, do you use Bussman or Littlefuse??  Or perhaps the boutique brand Schurter? LOL


----------



## dogwan

mr rick said:


> So, do you use Bussman or Littlefuse??  Or perhaps the boutique brand Schurter? LOL


 
 Haters gonna hate.
  
  
 While I've never gone the boutique fuse route, I always pay attention to the fuses on my vintage equipment. When a new piece comes across my bench I make sure the fuse holders and fuse ends get a good treatment with DeOxit. I will also wrap the fuse body in plumbers teflon tape. It makes a subtle but definite improvement to my ears. I don't think you will get many that will argue that the PS does not have an impact on the sound of an amp. Thus, it would hold that anything you can do to improve the PS will have a positive impact.


----------



## SirMarc

Do you wrap the receptacle ends of the fuse holder also? Just curious, because I assume you're wrapping the fuse for shielding?


----------



## MinedSafe

Now lads, stop  Its getting nowhere. I did heard about the fuses thing, never tried myself but I can imagine there could a be a small difference in reference and transparent system. Now, needles to say I know a person who made Electric company to build separate line to his newly build house just to power his audio system and he claims it sounds much, much better! I also happen to know people having 20k - 40K power leads making same statements. Where there is a need there is company to fulfill. If people need gold fuses, 40k power leads and build power lines to their home, well let them live  While I do not think they make a difference I wont be able to try miself unless I win Lotto


----------



## Mr Rick

minedsafe said:


> Now lads, stop  Its getting nowhere. I did heard about the fuses thing, never tried myself but I can imagine there could a be a small difference in reference and transparent system. Now, needles to say I know a person who made Electric company to build separate line to his newly build house just to power his audio system and he claims it sounds much, much better! I also happen to know people having 20k - 40K power leads making same statements. Where there is a need there is company to fulfill. If people need gold fuses, 40k power leads and build power lines to their home, well let them live  While I do not think they make a difference I wont be able to try miself unless I win Lotto


 
 I have a low tolerance for misinformation.


----------



## PhoenixG

dogwan said:


> Haters gonna hate.
> 
> 
> While I've never gone the boutique fuse route, I always pay attention to the fuses on my vintage equipment. When a new piece comes across my bench I make sure the fuse holders and fuse ends get a good treatment with DeOxit. I will also wrap the fuse body in plumbers teflon tape. It makes a subtle but definite improvement to my ears. I don't think you will get many that will argue that the PS does not have an impact on the sound of an amp. Thus, it would hold that anything you can do to improve the PS will have a positive impact.


 
 Ok, let's calm down everyone. I propose we settle this with some engineering. IMHO, there are a few times a fuse can make a difference; i.e.  if they're oxidized/ dirty, off spec, or if it's in the signal path.
  
 Let's talk about power supply fuses first. In a power supply, the power comes off the wall via the transformer, hits the fuse, then the rectifier, then the filter and main caps. Some power supplies get fancy after that with some sweet diodes and other schemes, but the first half of all of them is identical. So what is a fuse? It's a resistor that is designed to become a puff of smoke a some point and protect your system from itself. Some of them, especially slow blow types have some minuscule inductance, but it is way beyond negligible and countered by even the smallest caps later on. They can also put off the same 60hz noise that any other unshielded power component can, which is why shielded power supplies are awesome, and many amps use an over/under scheme to separate fuses and other live components from the signal path in their own farady cages on the top and bottom of the chassis. 
  
 So apart from amp design, how can one make a fuse "better"? You can't unless you start changing the amp. Teflon tape doesn't block EM waves (sorry, it isn't conductive. And wrapping a fuse in something that would block EM waves would make it no longer work as a fuse - i.e. metal). You could put your power supply in a box. Some amps do that. You could make sure they are up to spec. If they have been strained in the past, the might have a higher than normal resistance which could slightly limit your power supply. If they are dirty or the bracket is dirty, they might exhibit strange behavior, like not passing anything under a certain voltage, which would DEFINITELY be noticeable. That could put some strain on your caps. If you have no margin in your power supply it would definitely allow some noise into the DC circuitry and the signal. You could make an expensive fuse out of gold with the lowest possible impedance, but it would be pretty much the same as any other since it still *has* to pop when it is called on.

 So that sucks, what's a realistic way to make fuses act ideal? Solder them in. Next best way? Clean them and replace them if they have ever gotten really frikkin hot. Hot enough to warp the wire.
  
  
 I've got to run, but let's call this part one. I'll do part two later on fuses IN the signal path.


----------



## dogwan

sirmarc said:


> Do you wrap the receptacle ends of the fuse holder also? Just curious, because I assume you're wrapping the fuse for shielding?


 
 No, I just wrap the glass body with a few tight turns of Teflon plumbers tape. Not so much for shielding as for damping ringing in the glass. However, Teflon is a great dielectric.
  
 I readily admit that the improvement from the tape may be subjective, but we're talking about $0.005 investment. 
  
 I will however defend the practice of good clean contact in the fuse holder. Here's an anecdotal story: I had a vintage Honda CB400f that was having charging issues despite the entire system testing good. One day I lost power only to find the fuse box had melted from excess heat build-up. After pulling my hair out I found an old Honda mechanic online who told me the old brass clips build up micro layers of barely visible corrosion that add resistance and thus build up heat. Since the charging system was barely adequate when new, the added resistance was enough to interfere with keeping the battery charged over an extended period of time. Sure enough when I measured the charging after long running the voltage to the battery had dropped significantly. The longer the bike was running the hotter the fuse clips got, and the hotter they got the greater the resistance. Took a Dremel to the inside of the fuse clips and the problem went away and the fuse block no longer heated up to melting temps. It only took me 3 years to figure it out.
  
 On my vintage equipment I will also scrub the prongs of the AC plugs if they are brass. Again, very little investment for peace of mind.


----------



## dogwan

phoenixg said:


> Ok, let's calm down everyone.


 
 I'm feeling pretty calm....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I had to laugh, you posted at the same time I did. Great post by the way.
  
 To everyone: I should apologize. My comment about "haters gonna hate" was meant tongue in cheek and I didn't mean to incite or fling flames. Again, I admit that a lot of this hobby can be very subjective. As long as we're all having fun....


----------



## Mr Rick

phoenixg said:


> Ok, let's calm down everyone.


 
 No sense in discussing this any further. I bristle at the dissemination of misinformation.  I could put it in stronger terms but this is a family forum.


----------



## pedalhead

Just to get the thread back on track and because everyone likes a picture of a vintage receiver...I'll be getting this "little" fella (Luxman R1120) in a few weeks...


----------



## Skylab

Wow, pedalhead, that's a beauty! Congrats!!!


----------



## pedalhead

skylab said:


> Wow, pedalhead, that's a beauty! Congrats!!!


 
  
 Cheers mate.  Can't wait to hear it!


----------



## PhoenixG

dogwan said:


> ...
> On my vintage equipment I will also scrub the prongs of the AC plugs if they are brass. Again, very little investment for peace of mind.
> ...


 
 That's actually something I was going to discuss as well. You can get some increased performance from that if there is a permissivity issue (mediocre connection to wall power). It is a smaller scale problem since most amps have stuff between the socket and the fuse, like a transformer, possibly capacitor bonding (on two prong amps), and chokes. Cleaning the AC prongs is a real thing. If you have a dedicated power source that provides clean AC, why not make it a good connection. I think that does more than ANY boutique power cable when the original cable is a) appropriately spec'd and b) not corroded or damaged.
  
 Ok, part two, fuses IN the signal path.
  
 While it is unusual to see a fuse in the signal path of most amps, it does sometimes happen. The question is, does a boutique fuse matter here either? Well, it depends where it is. If the fuse is before the output, no. No way. Keep it clean and replace them if they pop or warp, but long story short, not they don't.
 After the output, I will be honest, it is possible to have a difference. Some boutique fuses are sliiiiightly lower impedance than their cheapo bretheren. I'm talking fractions of an ohm. Why does that matter? Damping factor. Any good salesman will tell you that their amp has a damping factor of a kazillion. Bigger is better right? Well that number can get HUGE! A billion? Sure! But my amp has a trillion, so there! The way you get that is dividing the impedance of a speaker (8 ohmn nominal) by the internal impedance of your output (typically as low as possible). If your output fuse is .0001 ohms and the boutique fuse is .00005 ohms, your damping factor just jumped by a factor of twenty. WOOHOO! 
 But does it matter? Ehhhhhhhh, I won't say it does. Pretty much anything above 20 is the same, especially since most people have a wire in the mix and not just speakers welded to the amp output. For you head phone guys, your damping factor can actually invert on a vintage amp. If you have low impedance cans hooked up to a mega-amp with dropping resistors, you can easily get below one. Silent One with with his Sansui G22000 Probably has 500 ohm dropping resistors in there to keep from blowing up a 32 ohm can.The nominal damping factor on that setup is tiny. Granted, it moves closer to one with his high impedance cans. You can debate it all day and not find any correlation between damping factor and quality.
  
 Two more paragraphs and I swear I'll be done.
 OK, so where can a fuse make the most difference? If you guessed in a speaker, you'd be right! It is common to have fuses right in the input of speakers. Endemic. And nobody ever checks them. Like, ever. I've bought probably a half dozen "dead on arrival"/"Parts only" speakers that just had a blown fuse. Great deal for me, but they could have checked. Also, those suckers are always dirty. They sit on the floor and move air around. Think how dirty your AC unit would be after 50 years without a filter. If you want to spend some money on a boutique fuse, do it there. Boutique fuses are slightly nicer quality and don't corrode if they're gold plated. Also, speaker fuses are the *most* likely to have been run really hot and warp. When I get a new pair of speakers, I always clean every contact in them. Fuses and brackets, driver connectors, and L-pads. If you want an infinite return on investment for your ears, do yourself that favor. But I digress.
  
 So why do people swear by boutique fuses? Let's not debate the quality. Gold plated is pretty sweet, let's be honest. Look closer though. They come with a polishing cloth and instructions to CLEAN the fuse and bracket. So there's the biggest gainer right there. If you were to pop a squeaky clean five cent fuse right in there after cleaning the bracket, I'd bet it sounded pretty good too. It might need to be replaced one or two extra times in its life if you live in a humid area though, but that's it. Also, marketing  can be pretty strong stuff and they are packed full of it. If you are told your music is better, then you'd probably believe it. I dare you to put it to a blind test and see if you can tell the difference.


----------



## dogwan

> Two more paragraphs and I swear I'll be done.
> OK, so where can a fuse make the most difference? If you guessed in a speaker, you'd be right! It is common to have fuses right in the input of speakers. Endemic. And nobody ever checks them. Like, ever. I've bought probably a half dozen "dead on arrival"/"Parts only" speakers that just had a blown fuse. Great deal for me, but they could have checked. Also, those suckers are always dirty. They sit on the floor and move air around. Think how dirty your AC unit would be after 50 years without a filter. If you want to spend some money on a boutique fuse, do it there. Boutique fuses are slightly nicer quality and don't corrode if they're gold plated. Also, speaker fuses are the *most* likely to have been run really hot and warp. When I get a new pair of speakers, I always clean every contact in them. Fuses and brackets, driver connectors, and L-pads. If you want an infinite return on investment for your ears, do yourself that favor. But I digress.
> 
> So why do people swear by boutique fuses? Let's not debate the quality. Gold plated is pretty sweet, let's be honest. Look closer though. They come with a polishing cloth and instructions to CLEAN the fuse and bracket. So there's the biggest gainer right there. If you were to pop a squeaky clean five cent fuse right in there after cleaning the bracket, I'd bet it sounded pretty good too. It might need to be replaced one or two extra times in its life if you live in a humid area though, but that's it. Also, marketing  can be pretty strong stuff and they are packed full of it. If you are told your music is better, then you'd probably believe it. I dare you to put it to a blind test and see if you can tell the difference.


 
 FWIW, a lot of vintage amps can have speaker fuses either inside or accessible on the back. I want to clarify that while I mentioned the Power Supply in my posts I was also talking about the speaker fuses. My thing with teflon tape is something I've done to those fuses, and in all likelihood where I've thought I noticed some change for the better. I believe the original post that got us started on fuses was referring that situ since he mentioned 2 back panel fuses. Nice write up BTW.


----------



## buson160man

mr rick said:


> So, do you use Bussman or Littlefuse??  Or perhaps the boutique brand Schurter? LOL


 

  I have used hifi tuning gold ,silver and the supreme fuse on various pieces that I have and have never been disappointed in the results and I have never gone back to the original fuses even after cleaning them and doing comparisons with the premium fuses . Looks like I have set off a bit of controversy with my well meant suggestion. My most recent piece(since june 2014) my pride and joy my concept 16.5 received a fuse upgrade s few months ago when I replaced the rear accessed fuses with isoclean premium fuses. The change again was easily noticeable and much for the better . My receiver sounds much more open sounding and is much quieter as well. I am able to hear the low level information more clearly .In fact the clarity of sound in general has been much better since the fuse upgrade. I know there are a lot of people who would never spend the 50 to 100 dollars for a premium fuse. But I ask how many of you would pay hundreds to thousands of dollars for an after market power cord ? I am sure  there are a lot of you  myself included who have done just that.
    I have to say the amount of improvement you get of course depends somewhat on the resolution capability of the equipment but if it is a decent piece the results are rewarding . And a lot cheaper than those expensive power cords .


----------



## buson160man

pedalhead said:


> Just to get the thread back on track and because everyone likes a picture of a vintage receiver...I'll be getting this "little" fella (Luxman R1120) in a few weeks...


 

  Gosh I just love the wooden case on your luxman. I need to have a case made for my receiver like the one on the luxman. it looks so rich . It would cost a bit but it would be worth it . Of course the luxman piece is a real beauty as well. Congratulations it is a real looker.


----------



## pedalhead

buson160man said:


> Gosh I just love the wooden case on your luxman. I need to have a case made for my receiver like the one on the luxman. it looks so rich . It would cost a bit but it would be worth it . Of course the luxman piece is a real beauty as well. Congratulations it is a real looker.


 
  
 Cheers yes gotta love the wood cases on these old things. Just looks so great with the solid aluminium switches, knobs & faceplate. They sure don't make 'em like that any more!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Accidentally posted this in the vintage speaker thread - but meant to post here:
  
 One interesting thing I have noticed lately is vintage audiophiles congregating at the vinyl records in Goodwill.  I tend to make a sweep through GW every week or so to look for vintage audio and embellish my record connection.  At that time I usually run into another audiophile perusing the records.  The subject of vintage and a general dislike for CDs will generally come up.  This past weekend a guy was telling me that someone just gave him a Sansui 9090 (I told him to hold on to it as it was a keeper).
  
 I am building the original Leach phono stage so my interest in vinyl has been re-ignited.  I bought the boards from Professor Leach back in 1977 and just never got around to building them.  Anyway the power supply is nearing completion and the phono stage works.  Hoping that the better parts I am using will yield improved sound (all film caps for EQ and Elna Silmic II for coupling - toroid transformer to boot).  Going to set it up to run with dual mono PS so that should help.  Right now just running with one supply.  Having a great time with this.


----------



## SleathX1

pedalhead said:


> Cheers yes gotta love the wood cases on these old things. Just looks so great with the solid aluminium switches, knobs & faceplate. They sure don't make 'em like that any more!


 
 That sure is right! I very recently realized what kind of old gear my grandfather had at his place, it all is just _so_ elegant and smooth.


----------



## Ryman86

How much should I pay for a  Pioneer SA-510 which appears to have not cosmetic blemishes and is in excellent working condition?


----------



## pedalhead

ryman86 said:


> How much should I pay for a  Pioneer SA-510 which appears to have not cosmetic blemishes and is in excellent working condition?


 
  
 A quick look at completed ebay listings suggest those sell for $100 or less in decent condition.


----------



## Oregonian

Check these two out........went to my local Goodwill, which usually has zero vintage and mostly junk.........till yesterday.

$50 apiece would buy you these. A Truetone and a Realistic.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Never heard of Truetone and not sure that Realistic would be in the same category as their silver faced ones.  But to your point I see very little vintage in GW any more.  I really just end up getting Vinyl and CDs there now.


----------



## dogwan

oregonian said:


> Check these two out........went to my local Goodwill, which usually has zero vintage and mostly junk.........till yesterday.
> 
> $50 apiece would buy you these. A Truetone and a Realistic.


 
  
 I wouldn't. 
  
 That Truetone I believe is mediocre low-fi from the 8-track era. Don't know why I have that notion, or where it came from. I could be wrong.
  
 That Realistic could be pretty good, but I hate sliders for anything, especially volume. And, especially if they're split. 
  
 From what I've seen from your posts I think you already have gear that blows either of them out of the water. Maybe if they drop the price and you happen to hit it on a 50% off purple tag day. No way you would ever get your money back at that price.
  
 That's my opinion. But, I'm in the mode of trying to stop picking up more stuff that doesn't top what I already have. And, that's a struggle sometimes.


----------



## Oregonian

Oh man, I didn't buy either of those pieces of crap. LOL 

I was just pointing out that I finally saw some vintage at Goodwill! 

This thread just needed more activity.


----------



## Oregonian

And here's a great craigslist score. Vintage 1991 Polk Audio M5JR bookshelfs for my family room system. This is as big as the wife would allow or I'd have my Klipsch 3.2's in here. Got these, a Polk center speaker in great shape and a 10" sub for $70. Sub is in my audio room now in my TV system. 

Surprisingly,these things thump and sound great out of the SX-1050.


----------



## dogwan

oregonian said:


> And here's a great craigslist score. Vintage 1991 Polk Audio M5JR bookshelfs for my family room system. This is as big as the wife would allow or I'd have my Klipsch 3.2's in here. Got these, a Polk center speaker in great shape and a 10" sub for $70. Sub is in my audio room now in my TV system.
> 
> Surprisingly,these things thump and sound great out of the SX-1050.


 
 Nice!
  
 Here's my latest CL score.... Free as long as I promised to give some love instead of parting out, Epicure Model 5's. Quite literally picked them up from a guy that lived in a "van down by the river". Gotta love PDX, where the young go to retire on the streets. I'm kidding of course. Pretty amazing that he had WiFi and internet access in his RV. Super nice guy.
  
 Anyway, all drivers test good and looking for surrounds. The grills have some snags, but still have the emblems! Looking forward to a shoot out between them and my Polk Monitor 4's (early version with the Peerless tweets) for my bedroom system.


----------



## D4NGER BIRD

I got a Marantz 2275 off of CL years ago for $50. It was all kinds of minty awesome. Years later, I found some old Klipsch Cornwall I's on CL to go with the 2275. When I got over to the guy's house to pick them up, he had a Mcintosh 6200, wood case, perfect cosmetic condition just collecting dust. He sold me the Cornwalls and the Mcintosh for $1000. I ended up selling the Marantz, but only realised afterwards how much I liked having a tuner. Should have kept it. I've been chasing a good tuner ever since. As much as I like the sound of the Mac, I preferred the look of the Marantz. They didn't look too good together though.


----------



## PhoenixG

d4nger bird said:


> I got a Marantz 2275 off of CL years ago for $50. It was all kinds of minty awesome. Years later, I found some old Klipsch Cornwall I's on CL to go with the 2275. When I got over to the guy's house to pick them up, he had a Mcintosh 6200, wood case, perfect cosmetic condition just collecting dust. He sold me the Cornwalls and the Mcintosh for $1000. I ended up selling the Marantz, but only realised afterwards how much I liked having a tuner. Should have kept it. I've been chasing a good tuner ever since. As much as I like the sound of the Mac, I preferred the look of the Marantz. They didn't look too good together though.


 
 What a great find! Maybe hold out for a Marrantz 10b/20b, or double down on Mac and get a MR78. I've got the MR-78 with a few tweaks (via modafferi) and it is one of the few perfect items I have. No complaints.


----------



## D4NGER BIRD

phoenixg said:


> What a great find! Maybe hold out for a Marrantz 10b/20b, or double down on Mac and get a MR78. I've got the MR-78 with a few tweaks (via modafferi) and it is one of the few perfect items I have. No complaints.


 

 The MR78 is my number one pick for a tuner, If I found an even halfway decent deal on one I'd snatch it up.


----------



## SpeakerBox

If you are handy - I would recommend modding a Kenwood KT-7500 Tuner as per fmtunerinfo:
  
 http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/kenwood.html
  
 I did this and have yet to hear a CD player that will equal it (including my Sony NS999ES and the Denon I had before it).


----------



## dogwan

speakerbox said:


> If you are handy - I would recommend modding a Kenwood KT-7500 Tuner as per fmtunerinfo:
> 
> http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/kenwood.html
> 
> I did this and have yet to hear a CD player that will equal it (including my Sony NS999ES and the Denon I had before it).


 
 Agreed! 
 If you can score a KT-8300 even better. I modified mine as per the same site and it's a superb sounding tuner.


----------



## SpeakerBox

dogwan said:


> Agreed!
> If you can score a KT-8300 even better. I modified mine as per the same site and it's a superb sounding tuner.


 
  
 Yes!  The 8300 is awesome!


----------



## moodyrn

While I don't listen to FM much, I did score a marantz 10B for 1300.00 which was a really good price in comparison for how much they normally go for. I thought, if I didn't love it, I could easily get my money back. It was just an incredible sounding tuner, and I see why they are so popular. But that's still a lot of money for a tuner(to me at least). I did love it, but still only listened to it once or twice a week(and I kind of forced myself to listen to it that much).  I just didn't use it enough to justify paying that much money for it. But if you can score one at a decent price, you will be very, very happy.
  
 The sansui tu-9900 is another tuner I owned briefly, and it too is an excellent and highly regarded tuner. The kenwood kt-8300 and mr78 are highly regarded as well. Another route you can take is swapping the 6200 for a mac4100. They are the same thing except the 4100 have a built in tuner which is reportedly pretty good. I really wish I could enjoy having a tuner like some here. The marantz 10b along with being a great tuner, was also a real looker too(the scope was way cool) as well as many others.


----------



## pedalhead

I just received a copy of Stereo Review from Sept 1978 that I bought mainly because it contains a review of my incoming Luxman R-1120.  Being late-'70s of course, the mag is full of receivers (they were clearly the BIG thing at that time!).  I thought you guys might like to see a few of the ads...


----------



## reddog

That was a blast from the past, loved the ad's from 1978.


----------



## pedalhead

reddog said:


> That was a blast from the past, loved the ad's from 1978.


 
  
 Yep, they don't make ads like they used to!  Have to say, the mag is great...it has a really good mix of technical hardware reviews and articles covering musicians and music reproduction itself as well. The cigarette adverts feel pretty out of place these days though!


----------



## frahengeo

pedalhead said:


> I just received a copy of Stereo Review from Sept 1978 that I bought mainly because it contains a review of my incoming Luxman R-1120.  Being late-'70s of course, the mag is full of receivers (they were clearly the BIG thing at that time!).  I thought you guys might like to see a few of the ads...


 
  
 So how does the review read for the R-1120 (nice looking piece by the way...)??
  
 Was that an AD for a Technics SA-1000?
  
 Thanks for posting.


----------



## pedalhead

frahengeo said:


> So how does the review read for the R-1120 (nice looking piece by the way...)??
> 
> Was that an AD for a Technics SA-1000?
> 
> Thanks for posting.


 
  
 Well, the review style is quite different to how it would be done today.  You get two pages of measurements, some graphs, one paragraph on how pretty it looks...and then one _sentence _on the sound quality, which is apparently "impeccable".  Proper, numbers-based reviewing there 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Yes, that ad was for the Technics SA-1000.


----------



## pedalhead

Here are a few more pics...


----------



## Silent One

pedalhead said:


> I just received a copy of Stereo Review from Sept 1978 that I bought mainly because it contains a review of my incoming Luxman R-1120.  Being late-'70s of course, the mag is full of receivers (they were clearly the BIG thing at that time!).  I thought you guys might like to see a few of the ads...


 
 Good stuff! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 - Team Sansui (1978 Sansui G-22000)


----------



## roadcykler

speakerbox said:


> If you are handy - I would recommend modding a Kenwood KT-7500 Tuner as per fmtunerinfo:
> 
> http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/kenwood.html
> 
> I did this and have yet to hear a CD player that will equal it (including my Sony NS999ES and the Denon I had before it).


 
  
 I happen to know someone who has a Kenwood KT-7500 for sale and it's cherry.


----------



## reddog

roadcykler said:


> I happen to know someone who has a Kenwood KT-7500 for sale and it's cherry.



Thanks for the information, I am now able to rank my humble Kenwood kr 4600 Reciever.


----------



## pedalhead

Hmm, I gave my Luxman SQ507X a good Deoxit a week or so ago & it's been crackle-free ever since, except today it's making quite a lot of noise again.  Look like I'll be doing it all over again...


----------



## buson160man

pedalhead said:


> Here are a few more pics...


 

  Wow where did you get the old advertising adds. These  adds bring back memories of when I was in high school . I use to drool over the monster vintage receivers back then . There was no way a teenager making pretty close to the minimum wage was going to have the scratch to buy one of those behemoths. Boy those were the good old days .


----------



## parbaked

SONY

 TECHNICS


----------



## dogwan

Borderline vintage.... Harman Kardan HK880Vxi
  
 Just resurrected from the dead. Another gem found in a junk pile.
  
 New display lights. Adjust idle current, it was pegged at full throttle on one channel which caused it to over heat really fast on half the heatsink. What was thought to be stuck in protection turned out to be incorrectly installed pre-->--amp jumpers. They were put in horizontally when they should have been vertical, basically shorted positives of both pre and amp. No wonder it stayed in protection. Plus, there is a switch on the front for processing loop, so jumpers are not even needed.
  
 Gotta love easy fixes! 
  
 Just spent a couple hours running it in on both speakers and cans. DC offset fully warmed up measured a micro 0.07ma on both channels! Sounds pretty sweet. Nice and warm tone with an underrated 60w/ch. And, the looks are growing on me. 
  
 Apparently MSRP was about $800 in 1988 and was second from TOTL. Made in Japan.


----------



## pedalhead

buson160man said:


> Wow where did you get the old advertising adds. These  adds bring back memories of when I was in high school . I use to drool over the monster vintage receivers back then . There was no way a teenager making pretty close to the minimum wage was going to have the scratch to buy one of those behemoths. Boy those were the good old days .


 
  
 I bought a copy of Stereo Review from 1978...details here... http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/14115#post_11327388


----------



## MinedSafe

Best thing about vintage amps is that u can do endless upgrades without selling and buying new amps. They also sound beyond any heaphone amp once properly recapped and serviced. I was about to sell my Sansui AU101 but got some CCCP oil caps and I was blown away by the sound. Now ordered full set of resistors,kiwame,mils and some american brand ( red ones ) Next step is to recable with amtrans gold wire Even now this amp sounds like a dream but I like to play around. Got a o2 recently and was able to compare to my Sansui, tbh o2 was completely destroyed, its like comparing Fiat and Ferrarri. Next thing is that everytime u change headphones, u can tune the amp to mach them just by changing resistor, wireing, setting bias lowet or higher( slightly) or changing caps. And what a fun is it just to work on them! I also have old Grundig amp wich I will recap next month. I wish I had more money I love vintage and there is nothing now being produced to compare, neither the looks and sound. Todays amps mesure well, cost th and yet they sometimes play sounds but not music. They produce sound rather to engage u to listen.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The only thing to be careful in regards to upgrades is that you don't put more into a unit than you can reasonably get at resale.
  
 We as audiophiles are always looking to the next purchase and usually will want to get our money back out of currently owned units.


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> The only thing to be careful in regards to upgrades is that you don't put more into a unit than you can reasonably get at resale.
> 
> We as audiophiles are always looking to the next purchase and usually will want to get our money back out of currently owned units.


 
 True.
  
 Unless you want to take it up to a level you will never feel the need for replacement.  A really seriously upgraded vintage piece can dwarf the cost of the "donor" in parts only - without labour.
  
 With upgraditis being the bug it is, make the decision bearing the above in mind.


----------



## MinedSafe

I have spend about 3 times the price of my Sansui for different caps and other parts just to try it out. The biggest problem is that most fancy caps like Rusian olis or silver micas have to purchased in 2 or 3 diferrent stores around the world. Plus u need to try many different ones to get the best. Over the years I also found out that lower amp models are better as not over designed. I remember my recaped Proton competing with Cyrus amp costing 5-10 time more 

Some people also think that modifying vintage amp is a crime and should be penalised. Why I see no reason not to change RCA sockets, wires and speakers binding posts. And most of them sound "tuby" warm because of 30year old caps and carbon resitors everywhere. The most important part to change is bias pot, after the years they do not hold current properly, and this can damage transistors very quickly. None of the ones I had was able to hold current steady. The noise is usually caused by the transistors, sometimes they can be replaced but most of the time they are out of the production for years. Same as pots, without rewiring its not possible to change them. 

Yes we all want to sell out stuff at some stage, while some of the amps will stay with us for years, as my Grundig I have maybe 10 years or more now, and not willing to let it go for another 10.


----------



## analogsurviver

minedsafe said:


> I have spend about 3 times the price of my Sansui for different caps and other parts just to try it out. The biggest problem is that most fancy caps like Rusian olis or silver micas have to purchased in 2 or 3 diferrent stores around the world. Plus u need to try many different ones to get the best. Over the years I also found out that lower amp models are better as not over designed. I remember my recaped Proton competing with Cyrus amp costing 5-10 time more
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 





 to all of the above.
  
 Ahh, those vintage purefetishists, particularly speaker binding posts in some of the vintage gear, particularly Technics, are abysmal. I once waited for a considerable time for the type I like particularly, that is rare enough on its own, but I added to that the condition it has got to have smashed speaker binding posts. So that I will be forced to replace them.
  
 And then spent a whole day in order to get (semi) decent speaker binding posts securely in place. But instead of always looking grim upon connecting either speaker cables or cables for the AKG K 1000 to Technics gear, now I look like this : 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




&
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 VPFMMV ( vintage pure fetishist mileage might vary ).


----------



## SpeakerBox

An interesting read: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/the-most-memorable-audio-receivers-of-all-time


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> What a great find! Maybe hold out for a Marrantz 10b/20b, or double down on Mac and get a MR78. I've got the MR-78 with a few tweaks (via modafferi) and it is one of the few perfect items I have. No complaints.


 

 One of our local vintage shops (Echo Audio) here in Portland, OR has a MR-78 for sale..................$725.


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> One of our local vintage shops (Echo Audio) here in Portland, OR has a MR-78 for sale..................$725.


 
 MR78 is one of the best tuners - modded by Modafferi, it becomes perhaps THE best out there. 
  
 You will have to decide how far you wish to go with this. Buying merely vintage MR78 "as is" will NOT yield the maximum out of this design. Just a quick search brought this : http://www.ebay.com/itm/380958839163?rmvSB=true
  
 http://www.audioclassics.com/mods
  
 http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/mcintosh-mr78-what-should-i-know-before-i-shop-for-one.166668/
  
 BEFORE you even think to consider a tuner in this class, make 100 +% sure you have a decent antenna on an antenna rotator. Remember, a stock NAD 4020A with an antenna on a rotator will drive MR 78 with a dipole into the ground on all but most local/powerful/multipath free stations. 
  
 So, it is the donor unit, restoration/modification and antenna on a rotator - and if the FM stations in your vicinity are worth their salt, it will quickly spark an interest in a decent recorder. 
  
 Taken together, >>>> $ than a "receiver" - even if TOTL Pioneer.


----------



## PhoenixG

analogsurviver said:


> MR78 is one of the best tuners - modded by Modafferi, it becomes perhaps THE best out there.
> 
> You will have to decide how far you wish to go with this. Buying merely vintage MR78 "as is" will NOT yield the maximum out of this design. Just a quick search brought this : http://www.ebay.com/itm/380958839163?rmvSB=true
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, the MR-78 with the modafferi mod was kinda pricey, but it was cheaper to get one that has already had it done than it was to ship one to have it done. Without the mod, the top end is rolled off too soon. Still selective, but annoyingly lacking treble. With the mod and all other work done, it is the best tuner I have ever heard. Most selective, least distorting. Just good. I can get dozens of Canadian stations and stuff from Portland on a good day from where I live. I think I get almost 60 stations, and most of them are clear.
 Now, it's feeding a Sony str-6120 and XR-250 speakers. When the pioneer finally gets back from Mattsd next month, it will probably be fed by the mr-78 instead. The speakers miiiiight be up for an upgrade in the next month depending on how things go. Not quite firing up the van yet haha.


----------



## moodyrn

Those sound like some very interesting mods. I wish I lived in an area where I can enjoy it the way you guys do. Where I live have an area of about 1.3 million people, but there's just a couple of decent jazz stations. Not worth the effort for me, but I'm sure tempted. Some very good deals on tuners come up here often. There was a mr78 that lasted for nearly a year. The guy dropped the price down all the way to 450.00 before someone scooped it. The marantz 10b I bought was up for several months also.


----------



## Oregonian

I hear ya.  We have good classic rock stations but that is about it - no smooth jazz which is my primary genre so it's rare I listen to FM ever at all and the TX-9500II tuner in my Spec system pulls signals well. 
  
 So a $3.99 per month fee to Pandora solves my FM problem..............well worth it.


----------



## MinedSafe

I was working on my amp yesterday night, here are some pictures from inside 
  
 Russian Oil caps, huge! could barely fit them in but the sound improvement is beyond their price point. Best spend 10Euro in my life
 Resistors are PR9372 and Mills but has miss ordered 2 so have to make another order. Resistors for headphone output are Kiwame,Caps are Cerfaines, Vishay, Samwha and Wima. Few more things has to be done but that all takes time and money and I'm trying to be reasonable, of course  Blue and red cable is DNM Reson witch I have sacrificed for the good purpose 
  
 Next parts will include new volume pot, Mundorf cap for power supply and some boutique gold+silver wires  
  
 Unfortunately while the amp sounds outstanding, there is a bit of a noise when music is not playing. This is defo from transistors and I might change them at some stage as well.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am guessing that you will cover the exposed leads on the big green caps lest to case touches it from the top?


----------



## MinedSafe

Yeah will have to get some shrinking tubes, they quite far away still from the top so not a bother, but it should not be done like that I know.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Better safe than sorry.  Trust me I have had a few unintended shorts in my time.


----------



## moodyrn

Many vintage amps/receivers have germanium transistors. Some have a few and others uses all germanium transistors(other than the power ones). It's absolutely critical to replace those....always. Germaniums are very unreliable, and very noisy. Those are always the first step for me. The shelf life on those isn't even as long as the shelf life of capacitors. Most repairs tend to be transistor related. But the  problem with some, is finding suitable replacements. That's why scoring a decent schematic is always key before opening anything up. After getting it running up to par, then you can work on making it sound better.
  
 I remember a pioneer sx1250 on ebay recently that the seller went though and did a total recapping, new boutique wiring, and other upgrades. But was selling it for parts/repair because he just couldn't get rid of a nasty hum. I sent him a message asking how many transistors he replaced and his reply was none. Replacing caps won't matte much, if there's a bunch of germaniums in there.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am wondering if the 1250 actually had any germanium transistors?  I don't recall seeing any but am going to re-check.


----------



## MinedSafe

Well said, I have found all the replacement transistors and will order this week.People don't change them as its not as easy sometimes, different pinouts and voltage. Some might take while to arrive but it be definitely worth it. There is about 18 altogether in AU-101 will se how many I can get to replace. I would also need to get a good bunch of them for pairing, witch is crucial as well.


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> I am wondering if the 1250 actually had any germanium transistors?  I don't recall seeing any but am going to re-check.




Well the point of the 1250 reference was, he didnt address the transistors at all when trying to track down the source of the hum. Transistors whether germanium or not do fail when it comes to gear this old. When it comes to germanium however, its always a given.


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> Well the point of the 1250 reference was, he didnt address the transistors at all when trying to track down the source of the hum. Transistors whether germanium or not do fail when it comes to gear this old. When it comes to germanium however, its always a given.


 
  
 Ok, thought that might be the case - but being the paranoid type thought I should investigate.


----------



## Nova40

I know it's hard to compare, but I was wondering how much ($) it would be for an integrated amp that's better than my old Yamaha CA-800?


----------



## captouch

nova40 said:


> I know it's hard to compare, but I was wondering how much ($) it would be for an integrated amp that's better than my old Yamaha CA-800?


 
  
 Is there anything in particular you're looking to improve upon?  What speakers are you driving with the CA-800?
  
 From my experience, the Yamahas are really nice units (heavy duty, high build quality) and very neutral.  If you just wanted a different flavor (more warmth/color, etc) that's one thing, but just curious about what you're trying to get that you don't get with the CA-800.


----------



## Nova40

> Is there anything in particular you're looking to improve upon?  What speakers are you driving with the CA-800?


 
 I'm driving a pair of B&W 686s and am currently using it with my Hifiman HE-500s as well.  But I will be upgrading to the the HE-6 pretty soon.  I'm looking for something that can compliment how resolving the HE-6s can be while also being able to power my 686s (and eventually Magnepan 0.7s).  So I would say I want to make sure my amp isn't the bottleneck for my setup (or at least minimally) with emphasis on resolution.
  
 Also, if it helps, my dac is the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100.


----------



## MinedSafe

nova40 said:


> I'm driving a pair of B&W 686s and am currently using it with my Hifiman HE-500s as well.  But I will be upgrading to the the HE-6 pretty soon.  I'm looking for something that can compliment how resolving the HE-6s can be while also being able to power my 686s (and eventually Magnepan 0.7s).  So I would say I want to make sure my amp isn't the bottleneck for my setup (or at least minimally) with emphasis on resolution.
> 
> Also, if it helps, my dac is the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100.




For magnepan, AudioNote, amp and preamp. Had it miself and was f amazing. I had Magnepan, audio Note amp and preamp, DAP Proced ( Mark Levinson ) DAC.


----------



## Nova40

And you think that an AudioNote will be able to drive the HE-6 pretty well too? As well as work ok with my current 686s?


----------



## MinedSafe

I have no idea about the Audio Note headphone capabilities, that time I was speaker orientated and would never purchase a headphones. Audio Note I have heard on many speakers, cheap and expensive. Honestly, u can't get wrong with it I do not remember AN not to push any system to its limits. 
  
 I assume that if u get the speaker to headphone conversion box ( with 2 resistors inside, basically that what it is ) I see no reason why It would not handle HE-6 with ease. I don't remember if he AN preamp had headphone out, but as far as I can remember, it didn't.


----------



## Nova40

Is there a particular model of their integrated amps that you would recommend given my my budget and use case? And I've never considered a preamp for my system, what might help with?


----------



## buson160man

nova40 said:


> And you think that an AudioNote will be able to drive the HE-6 pretty well too? As well as work ok with my current 686s?


 

 I do not know about the audionote products but may I suggest the rogue audio sphinx integrated amp. It offers a lot of bang for the buck and the unit has a discrete headphone amp. It is a hybrid unit  with two tubes in the preamp section and 100 watts rms per channel. It also has a moving magnet/ moving coil phono stage onboard. The sphinx has received favorable reviews in audio magazines. It offers a lot of value  and probably has the chops to drive the magnepans. The magnepans need some juice . The rogue is very reasonably priced for what it is and is well built. It is not much on looks but under the hood it is a impressive unit.
    The rogue audio magnum unit is very good too a friend of mine had the power amp version of the magnum unit and used it for driving his quad 2805 electrostatic speakers and it worked pretty well with his quads. The integrated is a little more expensive but not that much for the integrated version.
    The top of the line pharaoh is a hybrid unit and offers 175 watts rms per channel and doubles into 4 ohms at 350 watts rms. I have not heard the pharaoh but it like most of the rogue audio line offers a lot of performance for reasonable prices.


----------



## Oregonian

nova40 said:


> I'm driving a pair of B&W 686s and am currently using it with my Hifiman HE-500s as well.  But I will be upgrading to the the HE-6 pretty soon.  I'm looking for something that can compliment how resolving the HE-6s can be while also being able to power my 686s (and eventually Magnepan 0.7s).  So I would say I want to make sure my amp isn't the bottleneck for my setup (or at least minimally) with emphasis on resolution.
> 
> Also, if it helps, my dac is the Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100.


 
 Might consider running the HE-6 out of the speaker taps regardless of what amp you get instead of the headphone out.  I heard a pretty large improvement doing this with a vintage Pioneer Spec system, which has ample power out of the headphone out yet is so much better out of the taps.


----------



## buson160man

oregonian said:


> Might consider running the HE-6 out of the speaker taps regardless of what amp you get instead of the headphone out.  I heard a pretty large improvement doing this with a vintage Pioneer Spec system, which has ample power out of the headphone out yet is so much better out of the taps.


 

  I have heard and or read somewhere that driving headphones through the speaker taps is not a good thing. It was supposedly bad for the transformer.


----------



## Mr Rick

buson160man said:


> I have heard and or read somewhere that driving headphones through the speaker taps is not a good thing. It was supposedly bad for the transformer.


 
 What transformer??


----------



## Coolzo

buson160man said:


> I have heard and or read somewhere that driving headphones through the speaker taps is not a good thing. It was supposedly bad for the transformer.


 
 When you're driving planar-magnetics (ESPECIALLY the HE-6), you won't have any problems. I'd only be sketched out about driving a regular dynamic off the speaker taps without a headphone box. Or an electrostat, which needs it's own special box anyway, but that's beside the point. 
  
 It is worth mentioning though, that in some cases a headphone box might sound better than direct of the speaker taps. Just depends on how noisy the taps are and how sensitive your particular planars are. In the case of HE-6, again I wouldn't imagine there'd be a problem.


----------



## buson160man

mr rick said:


> What transformer??


 

  The output transformer.


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> The output transformer.


 
 I don't see how it would make any difference whatsoever to the output transformer (if you happen to have one and most amps don't).
 As long as it's set to the highest impedance setting and you don't short it out, you shouldn't have any issues with overvoltaging or overloading. I wouldn't wring your hands about the output transformers. If they have steps, that's to help increase output at the top end (especially at low impedances) more than almost anything else.
 Anyone else know something I don't or that I haven't considered?


----------



## wotts

buson160man said:


> I have heard and or read somewhere that driving headphones through the speaker taps is not a good thing. It was supposedly bad for the transformer.


 
  
 This conversation first started in the Musical Paradise MP-301 thread. Since it was capable of running speakers, some folks had wanted to try the HE-6 off the taps. The way the output transformer is wired in the circuit, it wants to see a speaker load. With out the resistors or an adapter box, Garry (amp designer) said it would be hard on the transformer since the HE-6 is 50 ohms. As for the solid state gear, it does not seem to have this issue. Some EE can come along and explain this better I assume.


----------



## Skylab

Just to be clear, 99.9% of solid state amps and receivers do not have an output transformer and as such there is no issue using the speaker taps. There is the question of whether it is worth bothering, when in many cases there is more than enough power from the headphone jack.


----------



## analogsurviver

skylab said:


> Just to be clear, 99.9% of solid state amps and receivers do not have an output transformer and as such there is no issue using the speaker taps. There is the question of whether it is worth bothering, when in many cases there is more than enough power from the headphone jack.


 
 Each headphone should be driven with an appropriate output impedance amplifier. In practice this means it is easier to put the required resistor in series with the speaker output taps - the fixed resistor in series connected to headphone jack may well be too large in value. It is case to case dependant and no generalizations are possible - save for the desirability of low output amplifier impedance; within reason, of course.


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Hi
 Not as "vintage" as some! I have a 1991-2 Denon Receiver. DRA-635R. I recently got a pair of HiFiMan HE-560 Headphones which were being driven by the HP out of my 2005 Yamaha RXV 657/
 Out of curiosity, I checked to see if I could hear any difference with the HP out from the Denon,
 Turns out the HP out is MUCH better than the newer Yamaha. Deep bass, more dynamic range, cleaner treble.


----------



## PhoenixG

skylab said:


> Just to be clear, 99.9% of solid state amps and receivers do not have an output transformer and as such there is no issue using the speaker taps. There is the question of whether it is worth bothering, when in many cases there is more than enough power from the headphone jack.


 
 You're absolutely right. Most amps don't have output transformers. I'm about to bring home two more autoformers (just for a visit) and I'm practically jumping out of my skin with excitement.
  
 Anyways, Wotts suggested an EE take a look at the whole transformer issue, so here's what I've come up with - 
  
 If you have a low powered amp, where the output acts like a current source, and goes through an output transformer (so MANY 'ifs'), then having an impedance mismatch (high) might cause a very high voltage condition at the input of the transformer which could lead to dielectric breakdown, excess heating, and/or shorting.
 The musical paradise amp meets all these conditions, and it's cap coupled as well - adding one more thing to not like excess voltages. 
  
 Say that three times fast haha.
  
 So what does that mean? It means that if you really want to use high impedance cans on an amp that meets those conditions, the signal would need to go through another few loops around the transformer (or the impedance of the cans would have to be lowered with resistors in parallel) to meet the safety margin of the amp at higher volumes. In short, use the headphone jack - it's made for them.


----------



## jnorris

I agree with PhoenixG, and the important thing to remember was stated by Skylab when he said that 99.9% of solid-state gear is output-tranformer-less (OTL), but most tube gear uses output transformers - an exception of note are the amps put out by New York Audio Labs which were designed by Julius Futterman.  The question is, are the ill-effects of running a solid-state amp into a load equal to or greater than 10x it's designed specifications more noticeable than those caused by the decrease in damping factor brought about by the 120 to 200 ohm resistors generally placed in series with the headphone outs?  Yes, you could run a resistor in parallel to the headphones to bring the impedance down to a more normal level, but then the predominance of current will bypass the headphone in favor of the lower resistance of the resistor, thus lowering the volume on the headphones while increasing the current output of the amp.
  
 I for one would be more afraid of accidentally running the amp at a high volume into the un-protected headphones and watching them burn up.


----------



## PhoenixG

jnorris said:


> I agree with PhoenixG, and the important thing to remember was stated by Skylab when he said that 99.9% of solid-state gear is output-tranformer-less (OTL), but most tube gear uses output transformers - an exception of note are the amps put out by New York Audio Labs which were designed by Julius Futterman.  The question is, are the ill-effects of running a solid-state amp into a load equal to or greater than 10x it's designed specifications more noticeable than those caused by the decrease in damping factor brought about by the 120 to 200 ohm resistors generally placed in series with the headphone outs?  Yes, you could run a resistor in parallel to the headphones to bring the impedance down to a more normal level, but then the predominance of current will bypass the headphone in favor of the lower resistance of the resistor, thus lowering the volume on the headphones while increasing the current output of the amp.
> 
> I for one would be more afraid of accidentally running the amp at a high volume into the un-protected headphones and watching them burn up.


 
 Let me be clear, I wouldn't use a parallel resistor scheme unless you know what you are doing and have done the math on it, and probably not even then.
 Looking at damping factor, I've had a few long posts about how high powered SS amps (i.e. vintage) do just fine with whatever damping factor you throw at them. On most vintage amps, hooking headphones up to the jack still connects it to the full power of the outputs that you would get at the back, just tempered by a dropping resistor. It's frankly one of their real selling points. It can actually invert your damping factor to much less than one, and that's totally fine. Your amp sees up to hundreds of ohms across it (HP + resistor), but as long as the SS circuit is complete and under a very large number of ohms (depending on a few things) it shouldn't have an issue.
 If you're comfortable plugging into the speaker taps, you remove the safety of the dropping resistor, but the damping factor swings way far the other way. You might hear a difference, the math is there to suggest that there may be some for some amps. In that case, your amp sees your HP resistance only and will still try to do what it does best, so be careful. If you have really high impedance cans, it's less risky than low impedance ones, but there is always some risk.
  
 Here's a simple formula to determine how much power will hit your cans from the taps of an amp - 8x(amp power output)/(hp impedance)=hp power output. I doubt most headphones need that much power, but hey, they're your things. You do you.


----------



## a-mal

Chiming in to say I use a Marantz 2015 with my grados. Works great!


----------



## PhoenixG

Here's a fun article about hi-res audio that had me rolling my eyes a few time. Especially when I looked through the comments.
 http://www.wsj.com/articles/hi-res-audio-hijinx-why-only-some-albums-truly-rock-1425675329


----------



## Exacoustatowner

phoenixg said:


> Let me be clear, I wouldn't use a parallel resistor scheme unless you know what you are doing and have done the math on it, and probably not even then.
> Looking at damping factor, I've had a few long posts about how high powered SS amps (i.e. vintage) do just fine with whatever damping factor you throw at them. On most vintage amps, hooking headphones up to the jack still connects it to the full power of the outputs that you would get at the back, just tempered by a dropping resistor. It's frankly one of their real selling points. It can actually invert your damping factor to much less than one, and that's totally fine. Your amp sees up to hundreds of ohms across it (HP + resistor), but as long as the SS circuit is complete and under a very large number of ohms (depending on a few things) it shouldn't have an issue.
> If you're comfortable plugging into the speaker taps, you remove the safety of the dropping resistor, but the damping factor swings way far the other way. You might hear a difference, the math is there to suggest that there may be some for some amps. In that case, your amp sees your HP resistance only and will still try to do what it does best, so be careful. If you have really high impedance cans, it's less risky than low impedance ones, but there is always some risk.
> 
> Here's a simple formula to determine how much power will hit your cans from the taps of an amp - 8x(amp power output)/(hp impedance)=hp power output. I doubt most headphones need that much power, but hey, they're your things. You do you.


 
 Thanks PhoenixG- that is useful info! I was considering the speaker tap approach for my HiFiman HE-560's- from my 2005 Yamaha V657 Receiver-but then I tried my 1991-2 Denon DRA-635R receiver ("Optical Class A") via the headphone out-and it was a night and day improvement in dynamics, bass, etc.


----------



## Mr Rick

phoenixg said:


> Here's a fun article about hi-res audio that had me rolling my eyes a few time. Especially when I looked through the comments.
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/hi-res-audio-hijinx-why-only-some-albums-truly-rock-1425675329


 
 The WSJ is always the first place I go for audiophile information. LOL


----------



## Exacoustatowner

mr rick said:


> The WSJ is always the first place I go for audiophile information. LOL


 
 ME too! I noticed a picture of a DragonFly USB DAC. Evidently it's the last word in DAC's-none better at any price! (Disclaimer: intended as humor- I'm sure the Dragonfly is great for it's intended purpose- I just speculate that it MIGHT not match an enormous high end DAC).


----------



## Exacoustatowner

phoenixg said:


> Here's a fun article about hi-res audio that had me rolling my eyes a few time. Especially when I looked through the comments.
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/hi-res-audio-hijinx-why-only-some-albums-truly-rock-1425675329


 
 One salient point- some people will take a CD and Hi Res version of an album-such as Norah Jones "Come Away With Me" and say that because they can't hear a difference-then there is ZERO benefit to Hi Res. They point out that the master used makes a huge difference-and in some cases the CD version does sound better.It may well be that some people do not really HEAR a difference given equal quality in the recording and mastering,
 I should stop teasing my oldest friend for being proud of having done away with ALL his CD's-having converted them all to mp3. Granted the vast majority are pop and 60's-70's rock.


----------



## Magick Man

mr rick said:


> The WSJ is always the first place I go for audiophile information. LOL




Yeah, I get my financial info from Rolling Stone, too.


----------



## willmax

I'm a long time lurker and have spent countless hours reading this thread and also drooling over the vast number of images of gorgeous vintage gear. I think this is my first time posting here but I thought I'd share with you some of my collection.

  
 To kick things off this is where it all started for me anyway in terms of vintage Hi-fi stuff, after I sold my Yulong D200 last year I stumble across a local guy and pick up this incredible piece of Hi-fi goodness, I know this is nowhere near the power of some of the excellent monster receivers we see posted in this thread, but to my ears this receiver has a very pleasing sound and what's more it has worked flawlessly ever since it came into my possession.

  

  
 Pioneer SX-535 receiver

  
 Pioneer PL-15R turntable
  



  



  


 It is obvious that as a good Head-fier that I am, I would never be satisfied with the one piece of equipment, soon after acquiring the Pioneer I went ahead and bought this other beautiful piece of vintage Hi-Fi gear:

  
 Rotel RA-1212 integrated amplifier




 This was just the tip of the iceberg for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... to be continued


----------



## reddog

Very nice pictures of your vintage gear, very nice indeed.


----------



## Oregonian

Nice photos of nice equipment.................and you're right, it's a slippery slope. 
  
 I started with one little old Kenwood KA-5700....................8 vintage systems later (all being used regularly) I still look at Craigslist two or three times a week.


----------



## pedalhead

Beautiful setup, Willmax! I'm thinking a nice turntable needs to be in my future some time soon..


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> Nice photos of nice equipment.................and you're right, it's a slippery slope.
> 
> I started with one little old Kenwood KA-5700....................8 vintage systems later (all being used regularly) I still look at Craigslist two or three times a week.


 
 Absolutely right. Systems keep coming home with me and it all started with a KR-9600 my dad and I got at a yard sale for $30 when I was a teenager. Yet another fantastic system is coming home with me in 3 weeks (from Oregonian's back yard no less), but I'll post about it when I have it in the house haha.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## willmax

reddog said:


> Very nice pictures of your vintage gear, very nice indeed.


 
 Thanks for the kind words Reddog, I know that my photografic skill are not up to scratch particularly coming from a mobile phone but I guess the vintage gear is what saves it at the end of the day 
  

  


oregonian said:


> Nice photos of nice equipment.................and you're right, it's a slippery slope.
> 
> 
> I started with one little old Kenwood KA-5700....................8 vintage systems later (all being used regularly) I still look at Craigslist two or three times a week.


 
 Thanks Oregonian, yes slippery slope indeed! I am at a point where I have to refrain myself from even looking at classifieds otherwise I just keep buying the damn thing, and the problem with vintage gear is it takes so much space (gee I sound like my better half talking). Let me put this way I've got all the fitout equipmant for a nice man cave - only problem is I haven't got one!


----------



## willmax

pedalhead said:


> Beautiful setup, Willmax! I'm thinking a nice turntable needs to be in my future some time soon..


 

 Thanks Pedalhead, yep your right – I don't think any nice vintage system is complete if it does not have a nice turntable connected to it IMO.
 Before when I was strictly a Head-fi person I could not think of myself listening to anything other than music in digital format, the thing is ever since I started down the vintage hi-fi path I found that turntables and vinyl records brings a whole new dimension to musical listening and enjoyment. Nowadays putting on a record and listening to analogue music is part of my weekend routine, even having it as background music while I'm doing other stuff - it is so relaxing.


----------



## PhoenixG




----------



## SpeakerBox

Lining up for PhoenixG's new gear pics.


----------



## SpeakerBox

willmax said:


> Thanks Pedalhead, yep your right – I don't think any nice vintage system is complete if it does not have a nice turntable connected to it IMO.
> Before when I was strictly a Head-fi person I could not think of myself listening to anything other than music in digital format, the thing is ever since I started down the vintage hi-fi path I found that turntables and vinyl records brings a whole new dimension to musical listening and enjoyment. Nowadays putting on a record and listening to analogue music is part of my weekend routine, even having it as background music while I'm doing other stuff - it is so relaxing.


 
  
 Drifting back into vinyl myself.  Lots of quality time at the Goodwill record rack.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> Lining up for PhoenixG's new gear pics.


 
 Haha, I don't want to jinx it. It'll be a few weeks, but it's worth the wait... And I just want to thank my wife in advance for the understanding, because it's a purebred monster.
  
 Also, my 1980 will be back in a few weeks as well from the recap by mattsd. There's a lot of good things happening in the pacific northwest.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice PhoenixG, assuming that is the 1980?  And yes, an understanding wife is critical in this hobby.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> Nice PhoenixG, assuming that is the 1980?  And yes, an understanding wife is critical in this hobby.


 
  
 Yep, that's a picture of my 1980 that mattsd sent me. Looking better than ever on his bench. The wife has an absolute veto on any audio purchase, so the negotiations to make her happy can be the most important step. For the most recent acquisition, I had to agree to get back down to just 3 systems within 8 months. Everyone leaves happy or it doesn't get bought haha.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Ya, I have the three system rule in place too.
  
 Big rig (Rowland amps) in the family room,
 The SX1250 in the man cave, and
 Sherwood 8900A on the night stand for HP listening.


----------



## spidipidi

Been a lurker in this thread for some time now and I am really wanting to try out some vintage receivers.
 I have the LCD-3 and I am wondering which vintage receiver would match the best?
 Marantz and Pioneer are often mentioned in this thread, but with the LCD-3 not so much. Advice is much appreciated!


----------



## PhoenixG

spidipidi said:


> Been a lurker in this thread for some time now and I am really wanting to try out some vintage receivers.
> I have the LCD-3 and I am wondering which vintage receiver would match the best?
> Marantz and Pioneer are often mentioned in this thread, but with the LCD-3 not so much. Advice is much appreciated!


 
 I'm not sure, but that set gets a lot of mention in this thread. Here's a link to a search of the thread. If that doesn't work, then you can do it manually. There's a lot of good combo's out there.  http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch/?search=lcd-3&resultSortingPreference=recency&byuser=&output=posts&sdate=0&newer=1&type=all&containingthread%5B0%5D=537704&advanced=1


----------



## buson160man

spidipidi said:


> Been a lurker in this thread for some time now and I am really wanting to try out some vintage receivers.
> I have the LCD-3 and I am wondering which vintage receiver would match the best?
> Marantz and Pioneer are often mentioned in this thread, but with the LCD-3 not so much. Advice is much appreciated!


 

  I have a lcd2 v2 with a cable pro reverie unbalanced upgrade headphone cable and I use a recapped concept 16.5 as a dedicated headphone amp . It drives pretty much any dynamic headphone easily.
 It works very well with my lcd2 v2 delivering a very dynamic presentation and it basically loafs with any dynamic headphone out there . My akg 701s are a more difficult headphone to drive than my audeze phones and it drives them in a fashion that few if any dedicated headphone amps that I have heard can match.
    If you are curious about these vintage receivers check out the classic receivers on the net. They list quite a few of these vintage units and give some information about each of them. it might be a good place to start.  Another is my favorite receivers which lists the concept 16.5 among others .


----------



## Exacoustatowner

spidipidi said:


> Been a lurker in this thread for some time now and I am really wanting to try out some vintage receivers.
> I have the LCD-3 and I am wondering which vintage receiver would match the best?
> Marantz and Pioneer are often mentioned in this thread, but with the LCD-3 not so much. Advice is much appreciated!


 
 I can only compare my 2005 Yamaha RX V657 with my Denon 635R (1992 ish)-but the Denon has a lot more kick with the HP out than does the Yamaha. I am using the HiFiman HE-560
 which is somewhat hard to drive at 90 db at 1 mWatt. It is "Optical Class A" which I understand to mean it runs at Class A at lower output.
 I notice a massive improvement in bass performance and some improvement with Dynamic Range over the Yamaha.


----------



## SirMarc

exacoustatowner said:


> I can only compare my 2005 Yamaha RX V657 with my Denon 635R (1992 ish)-but the Denon has a lot more kick with the HP out than does the Yamaha. I am using the HiFiman HE-560
> which is somewhat hard to drive at 90 db at 1 mWatt. It is "Optical Class A" which I understand to mean it runs at Class A at lower output.
> I notice a massive improvement in bass performance and some improvement with Dynamic Range over the Yamaha.


I have an 835r that I think sounds damn good with headphones, but good luck getting anyone to comment on it here. Guess its not old enough lol


----------



## SirMarc

And you also have to love that its remote control lol


----------



## Exacoustatowner

sirmarc said:


> I have an 835r that I think sounds damn good with headphones, but good luck getting anyone to comment on it here. Guess its not old enough lol


 
 Show them a picture of it's insides. It's got 4 BIG Capacitors and a BIG ROUND power supply. Not my pic btw. Audiokarma. Mine sounds fantastic. I'm sure yours does too!


----------



## Exacoustatowner

sirmarc said:


> And you also have to love that its remote control lol


 
 I do! My 635R has been in storage for many years. I'm pleased that it works perfectly. The remote had some ancient batteries and corrosion but I was able to remove most and the remote works.
 It's fun seeing MADE in Japan-instead of China.
  
  It's also true that my enjoyment is not tied in with it's vintage-it simply sound fabulous. I do remember looking at audio in the late 70's and wanting some of the equipment people are showing. I remember the allure of the old Marantz Blue glow on silver faceplate.


----------



## spidipidi

Thanks for replying. Browsed through the LCD-3 search link and indeed it has been mentioned, but maybe i was looking for more feedback.
 I browsed on and on in this thread and I have basically narrowed it down to these receivers:
 Marantz 2270/2275/2285
 Pioneer SX-1010/1050/1080/1250/1280 and of course the 1980
 Sansui 9090
  
 The idea is to connect my turntable to it and a also to buy a new DAC. Grateful for any input!


----------



## PhoenixG

spidipidi said:


> Thanks for replying. Browsed through the LCD-3 search link and indeed it has been mentioned, but maybe i was looking for more feedback.
> I browsed on and on in this thread and I have basically narrowed it down to these receivers:
> Marantz 2270/2275/2285
> Pioneer SX-1010/1050/1080/1250/1280 and of course the 1980
> ...


 
 Do you have any preferences? What kind of sound quality do you normally prefer? Is budget or local availability a factor? The more you have a preference, the easier a recommendation can be made.


----------



## spidipidi

For style mostly Hard Rock, Metal and Progressive Rock, but now and then I can listen to 80s pop music and classical music. I only listen to vinyl, FLAC and some 24bit albums.
 I guess budget wise 500-600 dollars to spend on the receiver. And since I am located in Norway with very poor availability, I guess I will be shopping on ebay.


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


>


 

  You gotta just love this cartoon. It definitely says something about audiophiles .


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


>


 
 +10 to the power of infinity !!!!
  
 I was looking for this cartoon everywhere - originally IIRC from the Stereo Review.  The most hilarious one I can remember is when the technical director and managing director of a loudspeaker manufacturer are having meeting with the Boss - showing him the latest  speakers from the competition. The Boss starts to rant :
  
 So, they give this junk of theirs 360 degrees of dispersion... OK, let's give ours 420 degrees !!!!


----------



## XUPX

Hey all!
 First of all, let me tell you that I hate you all. Since I've discovered this thread, I've read about 100 pages between the beginning and page 630 or so, and from that point, read all up to 892. I'll finish reading to this point, but I had a few questions. On that note, let me also tell you that this is probably the best thread I've read on any forum. It is quite amazing how much knowledge and stories there are here. I kind of feel like I know some of you, so I have you at a disadvantage 
 Joined this forum mainly for this thread, though I'm sure I'll enjoy it otherwise.
 I'll also tell you that from reading this I've already joined the club. My first venture was a Sony STR 4800 that sounds quite nice. It was very clean and nice. With it I got a pair of HPM-60s that I like. These are huge though...
 I then bought another Sony (those, I think, are the best "deals" nowadays, as people don't know how nice they sound), the STR-6055. That one sounded better immediately. I then opened up the 4800, and found it was quite clean. It still needed some Deoxit treatment (that it received - and now sounds better and cleaner). The 6055 needs more love. 
 So, now to my questions.
 First, what would be the best way of cleaning it? I don't meet the regular Deoxit, but the dirt all around... Should I try (carefully) wipe it, or should I just swamp it with Deoxit?
 Second, it has some leaking caps, on the power amp board. I've downloaded the service manual, so I know that's the board. Since this is not a very expensive receiver, I figured it's not worth doing a full recap, as one day, when I upgrade, I won't be getting my full money back, so only fix what needs to be done. I want to buy the new caps (basically, the 14 caps on the power amp board). One issue I have with that is that on the service manual I see volt, but the Nichicon audio ones are microvolt. Also, read somewhere I should go higher volts and higher capacitance. Should I? I can give the specific ratings from the service manual for all of those, if that helps. I'm looking to replace with high quality caps. There's no point in doing a crappy job 
 Third, is there anything I need to do before/after recapping the board?
 Any suggestions will be welcome. This will be a first for me, but I'm sure I can do it. Any reading material would be appreciated as well - looked a bit, but did not find anything good enough.
  
 Thanks a lot and keep this amazing thread alive. I'm almost done reading 
  
 EDIT: One last thing! Looking for a good TT. Any recommendations? Read a few here for B&O, Technics and a few others. Specific models would be nice (or, say, any B&O etc.). 
  
 And sorry if some of this was covered. This thing is so huge at this point, that it makes it a bit hard to navigate


----------



## SpeakerBox

xupx said:


> Second, it has some leaking caps, on the power amp board. I've downloaded the service manual, so I know that's the board. Since this is not a very expensive receiver, I figured it's not worth doing a full recap, as one day, when I upgrade, I won't be getting my full money back, so only fix what needs to be done. I want to buy the new caps (basically, the 14 caps on the power amp board). One issue I have with that is that on the service manual I see volt, but the Nichicon audio ones are microvolt.


 
  
 Probably doing the one board is a good place to start.  I like to bite these things off in small chunks and thoroughly test each step.
  
 Nichicon are good caps, I use a lot of them (Panasonic FC decent too).  I think you may be mixing up micro-volts and micro-farads.  May want to recheck.  Generally you want to match the microfarads (capacitance) and maybe go one step higher in voltage rating.


----------



## XUPX

speakerbox said:


> Probably doing the one board is a good place to start.  I like to bite these things off in small chunks and thoroughly test each step.
> 
> Nichicon are good caps, I use a lot of them (Panasonic FC decent too).  I think you may be mixing up micro-volts and micro-farads.  May want to recheck.  Generally you want to match the microfarads (capacitance) and maybe go one step higher in voltage rating.


 
 Thanks! 
 You are (of course) right. I am mixing. So, same micro-farads and one step higher in voltage? Awesome. Will make the order now, and start replacing.
 Cheers!


----------



## PhoenixG

xupx said:


> Thanks!
> You are (of course) right. I am mixing. So, same micro-farads and one step higher in voltage? Awesome. Will make the order now, and start replacing.
> Cheers!


 
 Welcome to the club!
 Hey, just as a sanity check. I have a ton of the older sony's (ok, half a ton) and for several of the models, they used a heavy duty glue to physically mount the caps (elna, right? that company is still in business and making top tier parts) to the board. That glue looks just like leaking electrolyte. To make matters worse, some of them were made slightly convex from the factory. Kinda looked like bulging, but too perfect. I had a similar freakout to you when I first opened up my first STR-6120 and *all* of the caps had leaked. None of the caps had actually leaked, it was all the glue.
  
 That's not to say your caps won't benefit from being replaced, I'm just saying that it might not 100% be that every one is leaking.
  
 Regarding cleaning, start with compressed air with the unit on its side. Move up to one of those foam sponges on a stick barely moist with just warm water. Rinse often. Let dry for a day before turning on. Don't swamp anything and try not to create any little streams. This should go without saying, but unplug it well before and don't open up the box unless you are comfortable working with electronics.


----------



## SpeakerBox

We have all been faked out by glue mimicking a leaky cap at one time or another.  Good point PhoenixG!


----------



## XUPX

phoenixg said:


> Welcome to the club!
> Hey, just as a sanity check. I have a ton of the older sony's (ok, half a ton) and for several of the models, they used a heavy duty glue to physically mount the caps (elna, right? that company is still in business and making top tier parts) to the board. That glue looks just like leaking electrolyte. To make matters worse, some of them were made slightly convex from the factory. Kinda looked like bulging, but too perfect. I had a similar freakout to you when I first opened up my first STR-6120 and *all* of the caps had leaked. None of the caps had actually leaked, it was all the glue.
> 
> That's not to say your caps won't benefit from being replaced, I'm just saying that it might not 100% be that every one is leaking.
> ...


 
 Ha ha. Thanks PhoenixG! I believe you are right, as these are elnas. Didn't see this until now, and just ordered the parts, well, for the power amp board. Decided to start with that one. Found a store near by that sells the caps (only one I found in Canada, actually), and these are small and cheap, so I can do it in a few orders. 
  
 I didn't really mean "swamp" it was a figure of speech, but thanks! I'll do that (air - sponge - dry).
  
 The receiver is nice, but requires a lot of cleaning, and I'm sure the recapping would help as well. The pots sound dirty. My only problem, is that my other receiver is now in the living room, and I just got my HE-560s today, my first real phones. I don't know if it's worth doing a full recap, as I do plan on upgrading (maybe sooner rather than later), and these don't get hold as much value as others (Marantz and the like). I might be new, but as I've mentioned, I've done a lot of research. 
  
 I really do love this thread


----------



## sbtruitt

phoenixg said:


> spidipidi said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for replying. Browsed through the LCD-3 search link and indeed it has been mentioned, but maybe i was looking for more feedback.
> ...


 
 Those are all great models!
  
 I would also consider the late 70s  early 80s CR series Yamaha's (e.g CR-1020, CR-640, etc) - they are very clean sounding, well designed receivers, and are quite reliable for older models in my experience (I still have my original CR-450 from the mid 70s), and still a pretty good value.
 And unless you are pushing large speakers, I'd also consider the lower power Marantz's, like the 2235B, 2250B - the 2270/75's are maybe the most revered, but you will pay for it too.  And for all of the Marantz's I recommend getting one that has already been restored/recapped. Also, the Marantz's are more 'tube-like' in that they have a warmer sound than say the Pioneer's or Yamaha's.


----------



## olek

First, my apologies if my question/comment was already covered in this thread. TLDR.
  
 I noticed that while all (ok, there always exceptions I guess) vintage amps have headphone jack connected to power amp output via some resistors, different brands (and maybe at different times) did that in very different ways.
  
 For my gear (all TOTL or close, all dating to very early 70s):
 - Kenwood just effectively connected ~550 Ohm resistor in series for each channel. Very crude, unlike rest of amp. Resulting output impedance is very high (~550 Ohm) and it shows - sound is mellow and slow; paired with HD650 it got some wonderful euphonics, but it still does not quite compensate for lethargic sound, and AD900 sounds not good at all with it.
 - Sony used proper 2-resistor voltage divider scheme, but for some unfathomable reason went really high with their values: both around ~500 Ohm. That results in very high output impedance as well. Sound-wise, similar story to Kenwood (with Sony's sound signature, of course).
 - Teac used same 2-resistor voltage divider matrix, with current limiting resistor in 200 Ohm range, and 'parallel' resistor 10 Ohm, resulting in ~10 Ohm output impedance. Those amps/receivers result in cleanest sound with most aggressive bass transients (despite being bass-light).. At the same time, people looking for 'vintage' sound out of them are going to be very disappointed - sound is fairly modern, light, stiff and clean.
  
 I guess Kenwood and Sony were just designing for older generation of very high impedance headphones, while Teac was betting that future belongs to lower impedance headphones.
  
 Now, what is the output impedance of YOUR vintage amplifier's headphone jack?


----------



## SpeakerBox

The Sherwood 8900A (60WPC) that I use for HP listening has series 150 ohm resistors and sounds fantastic with my modified JVC HA RX700s, but I realize these are not the quality/revealing HPs most of you own so mileage may vary.


----------



## Oregonian

Anyone know what ohm resistors Pioneer used in the late '70's on the SX-1050 or Spec 1? 
  
 Interesting topic gents...................


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Anyone know what ohm resistors Pioneer used in the late '70's on the SX-1050 or Spec 1?
> 
> Interesting topic gents...................


 
  
 The service manual (which should have schematics) should tell you: http://elektrotanya.com/pioneer_sx-1050_sch.pdf/download.html
  
 Edit: Took a quick look and the schematics don't look as complete as I had hoped.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The Pioneer SX1050 has 150 ohm resistors in series with the HP jack (same as my Sherwood 8900A).  I found a complete service manual at Hifiengine.


----------



## XUPX

So, I did as some of you suggested. The STR-6055 is now clean. I also did a recap of the power amp board. After a long search, finally found a store in Canada that sells Nichicon KZs. The glue (that was indeed glue and not leaky caps) was quite strong, but I ended up winning. Has been a very long time since I last soldered, but after a few joints I remembered how to properly do it. One day, when I have enough posts I'll post some pictures here. I'm now debating doing a full recap, as it sounds so much nicer (it was quite dirty, so I bet that did a lot of the difference). So thanks (again) to everyone who helped and to the rest by making this thread and share so much.
  
 Also, looking for my next step. There are currently a few options I'm debating. Will let you know when I've got something new.
  
 On a side note, my HE-560s that I recently got, and didn't impress me as much as the HD-800s I had for a day sounds *much* better now, and I'm beginning to see why people love them so much.


----------



## Oregonian

xupx said:


> So, I did as some of you suggested. The STR-6055 is now clean. I also did a recap of the power amp board. After a long search, finally found a store in Canada that sells Nichicon KZs. The glue (that was indeed glue and not leaky caps) was quite strong, but I ended up winning. Has been a very long time since I last soldered, but after a few joints I remembered how to properly do it. One day, when I have enough posts I'll post some pictures here. I'm now debating doing a full recap, as it sounds so much nicer (it was quite dirty, so I bet that did a lot of the difference). So thanks (again) to everyone who helped and to the rest by making this thread and share so much.
> 
> Also, looking for my next step. There are currently a few options I'm debating. Will let you know when I've got something new.
> 
> On a side note, my HE-560s that I recently got, and didn't impress me as much as the HD-800s I had for a day sounds *much* better now, and I'm beginning to see why people love them so much.


 

 Congrats on your project completion!
  
 Are you running the HE-560's out of the speaker taps or from the headphone out?


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> The Pioneer SX1050 has 150 ohm resistors in series with the HP jack (same as my Sherwood 8900A).  I found a complete service manual at Hifiengine.


 

 Thank you sir................


----------



## XUPX

oregonian said:


> Congrats on your project completion!
> 
> Are you running the HE-560's out of the speaker taps or from the headphone out?


 
 Thanks!

 I was debating whether I should answer this when I was writing that post... I guess I should have.
 From the headphone out. I might get a cable to try it from the speaker taps at some point, but right now looking for another receiver/amp. I might sell some computer stuff (water cooling parts) to fund my next one. Have a couple pretty high end ones in my sights and if this one sounds this good, well, I bet those will blow my socks off.


----------



## olek

Indeed Pioneer SX1050 has simply 150 ohm resistors in series, no resistor matrix. So more likely than not, most Pioneers from that era are like that.
  
 So far very high impedance receiver outputs seems to be the rule.
  
 Here is a link to great article that describes how those resistors work:
  
https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/tutorials/power-amp-adapter/


----------



## XUPX

So, i have to ask. What is a good price for a non-restored but working The Fisher 500C?


----------



## PhoenixG

olek said:


> Indeed Pioneer SX1050 has simply 150 ohm resistors in series, no resistor matrix. So more likely than not, most Pioneers from that era are like that.
> 
> So far very high impedance receiver outputs seems to be the rule.
> 
> ...


 
 That's a good article! I liked this quote the best "Note that in some forums it is often said that an amplifiers *output resistance must* be as *low as possible* and everything *above 1Ω is BAD (detrimental)* to the sound. While his *IS true* for most IEM’s and quite a few other headphones it is *utter nonsense* in a ‘universal’ sense. There are *many headphones designed* to be driven from*120Ω* or that *sound better* from a* higher output resistance*." 
Emphasis added by the original author.
High impedance is the de-facto rule for high power amps because a standard head phone is 32 ohms. Don't bite my head off here and say how every HP is a unique snowflake. There is a standard used so you can compare apples to apples and it acts as a worse case scenario in a design problem.


----------



## olek

From what I read somewhere else, in the heart of the problem is the fact that after strong transient signal to headphone drivers is off (imagine one short stout half of sine), membrane keeps traveling in same direction it was, because it has mass and inertia. It is duty of headphone designer to slow it down and stop soon, otherwise sound will become imprecise and floppy (especially in bass area). Some headphones are designed to rely more on mechanical means of fighting the inertia (more likely to make them inefficient energy-hungry headphones). Other headphones rely more on the fact that when membrane keeps moving by inertia, driver essentially is NOT working like electro-motor anymore, but is working as electro-generator. If that 'generator' is able to send its electricity to a low resistance output, it creates strong stopping force on membrane (think about it as energy distribution - energy that is being dissipated on the output resistance of amplifier has to come from somewhere, and it comes from slowing down moving membrane). Obviously, this design does not work so well if the 'generator' load is of high resistance - electrical damping of membrane is slow/insufficient and it overextends. And 'high/low' load resistance here is all in relation to resistance of 'generator' (headphone driver) itself.
  
 Of course all headphones utilize both damping mechanisms, mechanical and electrical, but to a different extent. Add to it the fact that headphone resistance (properly called impedance because it is resistance to AC, not DC) is varying hugely, and yes - you may start talking about snowflakes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I am sure I made at least 50 mistakes in those 2 paragraphs, half of them wrong facts/terms, half grammatical, but hopefully you get the idea of how it works (or at least of how I think it works).


----------



## XUPX

A few more details about the Fisher.
 So, it was serviced when the guy bought it, but they did not recap anything.
 They did find a problem with the on/off part of the volume pot, and put a switch there, to turn it on and off, and the volume part works with the original pot.
 It has no cabinet, and is also missing the brass parts on the knobs (that apparently fall off often).
 What would you say is a fair price for that one? I intend to restore it myself.
 Thanks!


----------



## parbaked

xupx said:


> A few more details about the Fisher.
> So, it was serviced when the guy bought it, but they did not recap anything.
> They did find a problem with the on/off part of the volume pot, and put a switch there, to turn it on and off, and the volume part works with the original pot.
> It has no cabinet, and is also missing the brass parts on the knobs (that apparently fall off often).
> ...


 
 This is what has sold on eBay past 60 days.
 You can draw your own conclusion as to fair price.
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=fisher+500c+receiver&_sop=16


----------



## XUPX

parbaked said:


> This is what has sold on eBay past 60 days.
> You can draw your own conclusion as to fair price.
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=15&_stpos=&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1&_nkw=fisher+500c+receiver&_sop=16


 
 First of all, thanks!
 I did search the sold listings on eBay, came up with different results (which is odd), but similar.
 I do know that prices on eBay tend to get a bit high at times, so while aware it is the "market" value for these, I was wondering what someone here, with more experience (and maybe the 500C itself) could chime in and give me a reasonable ball park. I think that the seller's price is reasonable (and from the prices of the "need repair" couple of units on that list, I'm probably correct), just want to make sure I don't have the "OMG, new toy!" effect ("I know I sometimes do, even if I try and be logical). Basically, I'll have to sell some stuff to buy this. So I want to know it's worth it.
  
 On a side note, 2 posts away from being able to post pics here. Yay


----------



## jgreen16

xupx said:


> First of all, thanks!
> I did search the sold listings on eBay, came up with different results (which is odd), but similar.
> I do know that prices on eBay tend to get a bit high at times, so while aware it is the "market" value for these, I was wondering what someone here, with more experience (and maybe the 500C itself) could chime in and give me a reasonable ball park. I think that the seller's price is reasonable (and from the prices of the "need repair" couple of units on that list, I'm probably correct), just want to make sure I don't have the "OMG, new toy!" effect ("I know I sometimes do, even if I try and be logical). Basically, I'll have to sell some stuff to buy this. So I want to know it's worth it.
> 
> On a side note, 2 posts away from being able to post pics here. Yay


 
 I guess I look at the situation you describe this way - If *you* think the seller's price is reasonable, then I'd say grab it if you want it, as long as you won't regret selling the things you say you'll need to later on. The Fisher 500C is a very nice unit, and I'm sure bringing it back to its original glory would be quite satisfying.


----------



## PhoenixG

olek said:


> From what I read somewhere else, in the heart of the problem is the fact that after strong transient signal to headphone drivers is off (imagine one short stout half of sine), membrane keeps traveling in same direction it was, because it has mass and inertia. It is duty of headphone designer to slow it down and stop soon, otherwise sound will become imprecise and floppy (especially in bass area). Some headphones are designed to rely more on mechanical means of fighting the inertia (more likely to make them inefficient energy-hungry headphones). Other headphones rely more on the fact that when membrane keeps moving by inertia, driver essentially is NOT working like electro-motor anymore, but is working as electro-generator. If that 'generator' is able to send its electricity to a low resistance output, it creates strong stopping force on membrane (think about it as energy distribution - energy that is being dissipated on the output resistance of amplifier has to come from somewhere, and it comes from slowing down moving membrane). Obviously, this design does not work so well if the 'generator' load is of high resistance - electrical damping of membrane is slow/insufficient and it overextends. And 'high/low' load resistance here is all in relation to resistance of 'generator' (headphone driver) itself.
> 
> Of course all headphones utilize both damping mechanisms, mechanical and electrical, but to a different extent. Add to it the fact that headphone resistance (properly called impedance because it is resistance to AC, not DC) is varying hugely, and yes - you may start talking about snowflakes
> 
> ...


 
 Don't worry about it. You might just be over thinking the physics. You've just defined something called "damping factor" quite nicely.
 The nice thing about vintage amps paired with modern headphones is that when you have tons of power and high output impedance, you get some curious effects. First off, modern headphones have pretty light drivers, so the flux generated by its inertia is tiny compared to the signal. Like really tiny. Enormously tiny. The damping factor from the HP out can be way less than one when the speaker taps might have a damping factor at a minimum of 20, usually over 100. Sometimes wayyyy over that. What can I say, marketing got a hold of that spec and decided to maximize it because bigger $ELL$, but it really doesn't matter for many headphones.
  
 The physics start to matter with heavy drivers (think big woofers). If you have, say, four 12'' woofers on each side, it might suddenly matter if they keep moving or not. Almost every decent amp made since the 30's has some sort of feedback mechanism to compare input to output which really helps control the damping. Think over vs. undershooting control (yes, you can make some amps unstable!) I could really get into this but I'll spare y'all.
  
 Ok, back to my point. When you have a ridiculous output impedance, your amp starts to look like a current source and not a voltage source. In layman's terms, imagine your amp suddenly says to your phones "I don't give a hoot about your impedance curve, you're getting however much power *my* response curve is." So if you have a nice setup, it can be very revealing of how your amp and/or music sounds, and it becomes a real hobby to find good pairing.


----------



## XUPX

jgreen16 said:


> I guess I look at the situation you describe this way - If *you* think the seller's price is reasonable, then I'd say grab it if you want it, as long as you won't regret selling the things you say you'll need to later on. The Fisher 500C is a very nice unit, and I'm sure bringing it back to its original glory would be quite satisfying.


 
 That's an interesting point you make. I sometimes think of things like that, but in this case, didn't. Hmm. 
 I guess, my reason for asking is that I'm a student, and money doesn't come by easy, especially not "toy" money. I have some case set aside for that, to which I never add, and it's only from selling stuff I have (that was usually purchased with that money). All other income I have goes for tuition and, well, bills and stuff. So I try and be extra careful with my spending money and have to make sure I'm getting a good deal, as it doesn't come by easy. As I've mentioned before, I do think it's a good deal, just looking for someone tell me I'm about right (as I do think I overpaid for the first one I got, not but much, but did). 
 As for your other comment, I completely agree - restoring it to its former glory would definitely be rewarding and satisfying. No doubt about that.
  
 Finally finished reading this thread! Well, the 450 pages or so that I'm capable of reading. I doubt I can read the whole thing, but I've read a lot of it, and I still search and read things in the middle parts that I missed. This did take a better part of my life over the last couple of weeks or so. This and my searches for the next toy 
 This thread is quite amazing. Good job everyone!


----------



## nick n

If anyone wants the 4 transistors ( sets of two different ones ) from the Sony STR-2800 receiver for spares let me know ( yours for the cost of postage ).  They may be hard to source these days though i've not bothered to look.The unit was in need of a huge tuneup, and recap it seems from slow startup static that cleared after quite a few minutes and generally seemed to show no improvement, add to that the overall shape of it and limited inputs it got scrapped. Too much time and $ to resurrect it for too little return use.


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> Don't worry about it. You might just be over thinking the physics. You've just defined something called "damping factor" quite nicely.
> The nice thing about vintage amps paired with modern headphones is that when you have tons of power and high output impedance, you get some curious effects. First off, modern headphones have pretty light drivers, so the flux generated by its inertia is tiny compared to the signal. Like really tiny. Enormously tiny. The damping factor from the HP out can be way less than one when the speaker taps might have a damping factor at a minimum of 20, usually over 100. Sometimes wayyyy over that. What can I say, marketing got a hold of that spec and decided to maximize it because bigger $ELL$, but it really doesn't matter for many headphones.
> 
> The physics start to matter with heavy drivers (think big woofers). If you have, say, four 12'' woofers on each side, it might suddenly matter if they keep moving or not. Almost every decent amp made since the 30's has some sort of feedback mechanism to compare input to output which really helps control the damping. Think over vs. undershooting control (yes, you can make some amps unstable!) I could really get into this but I'll spare y'all.
> ...


 

  I would like to say something about the damping factor on receivers. I have a concept 16.5 vintage monster receiver from the late 1970s. The receiver was recapped just before I bought it and it has fleshed in nicely since then. I notice that the damping factor seems to affect the speed of the amplifier to respond to the incoming signal . The concept 16.5 has a claimed damping factor of over 450 which is much higher than most if not all those vintage receivers from back in the seventies. I do notice that the sound of my headphones seems to be much tighter than my two other dedicated headphone amps regardless of which headphone I am using. And those are modern headphone amps so I have to say that the damping factor definitely has a noticeable affect on the sound of the signal coming in and going out.


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> I would like to say something about the damping factor on receivers. I have a concept 16.5 vintage monster receiver from the late 1970s. The receiver was recapped just before I bought it and it has fleshed in nicely since then. I notice that the damping factor seems to affect the speed of the amplifier to respond to the incoming signal . The concept 16.5 has a claimed damping factor of over 450 which is much higher than most if not all those vintage receivers from back in the seventies. I do notice that the sound of my headphones seems to be much tighter than my two other dedicated headphone amps regardless of which headphone I am using. And those are modern headphone amps so I have to say that the damping factor definitely has a noticeable affect on the sound of the signal coming in and going out.


 
 That's kinda like saying the tires on one car make it faster than another completely different car. I won't say that there is no effect ever, but there are so many other parts that have a real effect on how something sounds more than the last .0177 vs .02 ohms. It's really convenient to boil everything down to one spec and say "oh, well I have a gazillion xyz, so it's better." Especially when marketing departments want to sell you on something.
  
 Damping factor is really deceptively calculated anyways - they assume you have zero ohm wire and zero contact resistance and zero driver resistance! Put that wire in there and the highest damping factor even possible is not even 2 assuming your wire is 10x thicker than required and everything else is perfect. I am not kidding. TWO. I'd only ever be worried if the damping factor quoted was less than 15 at the speaker terminals. That might be odd.
  
 All these things can be measured. "Faster", "more accurate", and "tightness" all have a technical meaning that anyone with a multi trace oscilliscope, spectrum analyzer, EE lab, and some know-how can examine. Or maybe blind listening tests. If you want to prove me wrong, you can run simple experiments on your amp. Find small resistors and build a matrix to attach your HPs to the output. Have someone switch them without telling you if they're zero or one or 10 or whatever ohms. You just have to match the loudness each time so you don't automatically pick the loudest one. That's be like doing runs with different sets of tires on one car to find out what's faster instead of comparing the datsun to the porsche.
  
 Look, believe me or believe the marketing guy trying to sell you something. There's probably only one EE between the two of us.
  
 Here are some links from an audio engineer who was in charge at mcintosh for decades. Worth a read if you want to kill this debate. Oh, and check out the last one too if you like a good read. It's not about damping so much, but has a lot of good information.
 http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/damptoole.htm
 http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/dampaugs.htm
 http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


----------



## moodyrn

Phoenix I chose to believe you.


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


> That's kinda like saying the tires on one car make it faster than another completely different car. I won't say that there is no effect ever, but there are so many other parts that have a real effect on how something sounds more than the last .0177 vs .02 ohms. It's really convenient to boil everything down to one spec and say "oh, well I have a gazillion xyz, so it's better." Especially when marketing departments want to sell you on something.
> 
> Damping factor is really deceptively calculated anyways - they assume you have zero ohm wire and zero contact resistance and zero driver resistance! Put that wire in there and the highest damping factor even possible is not even 2 assuming your wire is 10x thicker than required and everything else is perfect. I am not kidding. TWO. I'd only ever be worried if the damping factor quoted was less than 15 at the speaker terminals. That might be odd.
> 
> ...


 
 That is why Kenwood developed Sigma drive - and all similar schemes that use into account the real world values for RLC of cables. 
  
 In normal cases, it is exactly as you have described. I personally tend to prefer higher damping to lower one, but the end transducer has to be of exceptional quality to allow this to be heard. In bass loudspeakers, the best candidates are LARGE transmission lines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line - because they are filters of the first order and do not ring on transients. Why is that LARGE important ? Because below the cutoff frequency, TL is no longer controlled by the amplifier damping - so it is either all the way down to 16 or so Hz (large speaker...) - or - nothing > some other type of enclosure. A small TL will be great at midbass and totally out of control with low bass.   
  
 Comparing the ringing of a typical bass reflex / ported enclosure on transient to transmission line  ( A R Bailey, “A Non-resonant Loudspeaker Enclosure Design” Wireless World October 1965 P483-486 ) is sobering - with bass reflex, the effect of amplifier damping would be next to invisible. TL is another story ... - so everything has to be used in the proper context.
  
 I would love to hear a big TL (something like big TDL Reference or DIY of about the same pipe length ) driven by Kenwood Sigma Drive amp - so far, the opportunity has not presented itself yet. But I did get to hear the big TDL and SS large damping factor amp ( Eagle ? ) - and I would certainly not mind owning that combo.


----------



## PhoenixG

analogsurviver said:


> That is why Kenwood developed Sigma drive - and all similar schemes that use into account the real world values for RLC of cables.
> 
> In normal cases, it is exactly as you have described. I personally tend to prefer higher damping to lower one, but the end transducer has to be of exceptional quality to allow this to be heard. In bass loudspeakers, the best candidates are LARGE transmission lines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_transmission_line - because they are filters of the first order and do not ring on transients. Why is that LARGE important ? Because below the cutoff frequency, TL is no longer controlled by the amplifier damping - so it is either all the way down to 16 or so Hz (large speaker...) - or - nothing > some other type of enclosure. A small TL will be great at midbass and totally out of control with low bass.
> 
> ...


 
 Here's a table that correlates the maximum length of wire to as speaker to how thick it needs to be based on speaker impedance to avoid it acting like a filter. Note - lengths above 50ft are still not recommended and there is no such thing as too low of resistance on wire.
*Maximum Wire Lengths For TWO CONDUCTOR Copper Wire*​ 
 Wire Size​  2 ohm load​  4 ohm load​  6 ohm load​  8 ohm load​  22 AWG​  3 feet max​  6 feet max​  9 feet max​  12 feet max​  20 AWG​  5 feet max​  10 feet max​  15 feet max​  20 feet max​  18 AWG​  8 feet max​  16 feet max​  24 feet max​  32 feet max​  16 AWG​  12 feet max​  24 feet max​  36 feet max​  48 feet max​  14 AWG​  20 feet max​  40 feet max​  60 feet**​  80 feet**​  12 AWG​  30 feet max​  60 feet**​  90 feet**​  120  feet**​  10 AWG​  50 feet max​  100 feet**​  150 feet**​  200 feet**​


----------



## analogsurviver

phoenixg said:


> Here's a table that correlates the maximum length of wire to as speaker to how thick it needs to be based on speaker impedance to avoid it acting like a filter. Note - lengths above 50ft are still not recommended and there is no such thing as too low of resistance on wire.
> *Maximum Wire Lengths For TWO CONDUCTOR Copper Wire*​
> Wire Size​  2 ohm load​  4 ohm load​  6 ohm load​  8 ohm load​  22 AWG​  3 feet max​  6 feet max​  9 feet max​  12 feet max​  20 AWG​  5 feet max​  10 feet max​  15 feet max​  20 feet max​  18 AWG​  8 feet max​  16 feet max​  24 feet max​  32 feet max​  16 AWG​  12 feet max​  24 feet max​  36 feet max​  48 feet max​  14 AWG​  20 feet max​  40 feet max​  60 feet**​  80 feet**​  12 AWG​  30 feet max​  60 feet**​  90 feet**​  120  feet**​  10 AWG​  50 feet max​  100 feet**​  150 feet**​  200 feet**​


 
 Meant was ELECTRO/MECHANICAL/ACOUSTICAL filter comprised of amp/transducer - not electrical only. The ringing of bass reflex/vented/ported enclosures is bad enough to render most audibility of damping factor moot - even with infinite damping factor with cables of zero resistance. I can not find the Bailey's paper from Wireless World as pdf anyplace - and my scanner is down.


----------



## KeithEmo

There's one other thing worth mentioning about how damping factor affects the way headphones _sound_.
  
 Damping factor actually influences the way headphones sound in two distinct ways - even though they're the result of the same thing, and are electrically related. Incidentally, the correct way to model damping factor is by putting a resistor in series between the amplifier and the speaker - with a _higher_ damping factor being a_ smaller_ (lower value) resistor - and a higher damping factor suggesting tighter, more precisely controlled sound.
  
 First, as has already been described, damping factor affects how "tight" or "precise" the bass sounds - because a higher damping factor is able to apply more "braking force" to prevent the diaphragm from continuing to bounce around after the signal is gone. This affects different headphones rather differently, with dynamic cans with bigger magnets and heavier diaphragms being more influenced (because they're both more likely to have lots of momentum and also more likely to have powerful "motor mechanisms" to counteract it - if the amp takes advantage of them). When the damping factor is lower, the resistance between the output of the amplifier seems higher, and so the amplifier is less well able to "short out" the back current from the speaker - which is how the "braking force" is applied, so the diaphragm is able to "bounce around" more violently, and for a longer amount of time before the amp "gets it under control".
  
 Second, because every headphone has a distinctively different impedance curve, the output impedance of the amplifier interacts with that impedance to alter the frequency response of the headphones. (Some headphones with multiple drivers can have very complicated impedance curves, but even simpler dynamic cans have at least one or two resonances and significant inductance.) Basically, the lower the damping factor, and so the higher the output impedance of the amplifier, the more it interacts with the headphones - and so the more _difference_ you're likely to hear between different headphones with that amp.
  
 Between these two factors, a headphone amplifier with a very low output impedance, and so a high damping factor, is the most likely to have tight sounding bass, and is the most likely to sound pretty much the same with different types and models of headphones; and a headphone amp with a high output impedance, and so a low damping factor, is both more likely to have "looser" sounding bass, and much more likely to sound very different with different specific models of headphones because it interacts differently with each.
  
 Most headphone amplifiers in older equipment had relatively high output impedances - and so _LOW_ damping factors (they were often simply connected to the speaker outputs through a big resistor to drop the level). It simply wasn't considered important in those days (and we can assume that most older phones were designed to work with a low damping factor). Modern headphone amps vary widely, with many of the better models having very low output impedance (and so a high damping factor), but other still having a rather high impedance. In general, having a lower output impedance, and so a higher damping factor, means that the amp is better able to control the headphones, and will give you more consistent performance across different headphones, and so is considered to be a good thing.
  
 Note that a _LOW_ output impedance means _HIGH_ damping. (The actual damping factor is the output impedance of the amplifier divided by the impedance of the speaker or headphone so, for example, a headphone amplifier with a 3 ohm output impedance would have a damping factor of 10 with 30 ohm cans, and a damping factor of 50 with 150 ohm cans. However, it always works in one direction: a headphone amplifier with a low output impedance will always have a higher damping factor with any headphone than a headphone amp with a high output impedance.
  
 (For example, the headphone outputs in the Emotiva DC-1 are driven by separate BUF634 high-current output buffers, and so have an output impedance well below 1 ohm - so, with 30 ohm headphones, the damping factor is well above 30. This means that the DC-1 does a good job of delivering tight bass, and that the electrical output of the amp doesn't_ interact_ much with the impedance of the headphones. Since the electrical output of the amp stays the same regardless of differences in the impedance of the headphones, any differences you hear are actually differences in how the headphones sound rather than in how well the amplifier is able to drive them. Many low powered headphone amps use a chip with a much higher output impedance, and so less damping, or even include a series output "protection" resistor, which is why they sound so different with different headphones attached.)
  
 Quote:


phoenixg said:


> Don't worry about it. You might just be over thinking the physics. You've just defined something called "damping factor" quite nicely.
> The nice thing about vintage amps paired with modern headphones is that when you have tons of power and high output impedance, you get some curious effects. First off, modern headphones have pretty light drivers, so the flux generated by its inertia is tiny compared to the signal. Like really tiny. Enormously tiny. The damping factor from the HP out can be way less than one when the speaker taps might have a damping factor at a minimum of 20, usually over 100. Sometimes wayyyy over that. What can I say, marketing got a hold of that spec and decided to maximize it because bigger $ELL$, but it really doesn't matter for many headphones.
> 
> The physics start to matter with heavy drivers (think big woofers). If you have, say, four 12'' woofers on each side, it might suddenly matter if they keep moving or not. Almost every decent amp made since the 30's has some sort of feedback mechanism to compare input to output which really helps control the damping. Think over vs. undershooting control (yes, you can make some amps unstable!) I could really get into this but I'll spare y'all.
> ...


----------



## KeithEmo

About damping factor...
  
 There's one thing about the wording of the _description_ of the table that I think needs clarification...
  
 The wire is always going to act like a filter - at least to some degree. The values given are really those which the author (quite reasonably) is claiming will ensure that the "filter effect" will be so tiny as to be safely ignored.  
  
 To accurately characterize the damping factor _AS SEEN BY THE SPEAKER_, you need to measure and count everything outside the speaker itself.
  
 Let's assume we have an amplifier with a DF (damping factor) of 800 at 8 ohms - measured at the speaker terminals. This means that the output impedance of the amplifier is 0.01 ohms. Now, if we add a speaker cable with a total impedance of 0.1 ohms, the output impedance of the amplifier - as "seen" by the speaker - is 0.1 + 0.01 ohms. (We add those two impedances in series and, since the 0.1 if by far the greater of the two, we can simply round the total to 0.1 ohms). By introducing that 0.1 ohm speaker wire, we have reduced the DF seen by the speaker from 800 to about 80. If the speaker wire had an impedance of 1 ohm instead, then we would have reduced the DF to 8.
  
 Now we have to figure out how much difference those numbers make - so we need to determine how the damping factor "from outside" affects the speaker. If we're now looking at both the amplifier _AND_ the speaker as a system, the overall calculation must now include the resistance of the voice coil of the speaker (when we apply voltage to produce current flow, this resistance is also in series with the resistance of the speaker wire and the output impedance of the amplifier). A typical voice coil is made up of quite a few feet of rather thin wire, and so may have significant resistance. If our woofer's voice coil has an impedance of 0.5 ohms, then that will affect the overall system the same way as adding that 0.5 ohms to the resistance of the speaker wire. Doing the calculation that way, and assuming a perfect amplifier and perfect speaker wire, the speaker itself will "self limit" to an effective DF of about 16. Our question now becomes not "what is the DF of the amplifier" but "how much does changing the DF of the amplifier affect the DF of the entire system"?.
  
 Now, if we connect that speaker (with its own "DF limit" of 16) to our amplifier with the DF of 800 (and weld it right to the terminals so we have no wire resistance added to it), the overall system will have a DF of somewhere around 15.9 (pretty close to 16). However, if we connect the same speaker to our amp plus wire combination with the DF of 80, the overall system DF will have dropped to about 13.3 (which is a bit different than 16, and so may be audible). And, if we connect the same speaker to our amp and wire combination with the DF of 16, the overall combined system DF will work out to 8 (which is quite different, and almost certainly audible). (And, if we connected that speaker to a tube amp, with a DF of 3, the overall system DF would end up about 2.5 .
   


phoenixg said:


> Here's a table that correlates the maximum length of wire to as speaker to how thick it needs to be based on speaker impedance to avoid it acting like a filter. Note - lengths above 50ft are still not recommended and there is no such thing as too low of resistance on wire.
> *Maximum Wire Lengths For TWO CONDUCTOR Copper Wire*​
> Wire Size​  2 ohm load​  4 ohm load​  6 ohm load​  8 ohm load​  22 AWG​  3 feet max​  6 feet max​  9 feet max​  12 feet max​  20 AWG​  5 feet max​  10 feet max​  15 feet max​  20 feet max​  18 AWG​  8 feet max​  16 feet max​  24 feet max​  32 feet max​  16 AWG​  12 feet max​  24 feet max​  36 feet max​  48 feet max​  14 AWG​  20 feet max​  40 feet max​  60 feet**​  80 feet**​  12 AWG​  30 feet max​  60 feet**​  90 feet**​  120  feet**​  10 AWG​  50 feet max​  100 feet**​  150 feet**​  200 feet**​


----------



## PhoenixG

keithemo said:


> About damping factor...
> 
> There's one thing about the wording of the _description_ of the table that I think needs clarification...
> 
> ...


 
 Keith, if you get a chance to read those articles I posted earlier, you might find all the answers you're looking for. They're really very good reads and somewhat definitive on the whole DF debate.
 Here are their links again -
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/damptoole.htm
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/dampaugs.htm
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
  
 As always, if you find a sound or combination you really like, go for it! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I hope we can let this debate go and get back to sharing pictures of great gear!


----------



## parbaked

phoenixg said:


> I hope we can let this debate go and get back to sharing pictures of great gear!


 
 Sony:

 Technics:


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> I hope we can let this debate go and get back to sharing pictures of great gear!




I took this glamour shot, apologies to people tired of seeing my vintage rig but it's still my pride any joy. What's new is the TASCAM BR-20 RTR


----------



## SirMarc

Keep them coming man. Looks awesome. No turntable?


----------



## Skylab

Thanks! The turntable is there, but it can't be seen in that shot - it's above and just behind the TASCAM (a Denon DP-59L).


----------



## SirMarc

Cool. I've been using a dynaco sca-50 with a thorens td-145 and sennheiser hd-580's and loving every second of it. What's weird is I didn't like the dynaco at all with a tube dac and digital files, but with the thorens its awesome. Forgot how nice it is to spin vinyl, but I also forgot how expensive it can be lol. I've spent probably 500 bucks on vinyl in the last couple of months...


----------



## SirMarc

My modest little rig


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## Skylab

Nice! Love the Thorens, and I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Dynaco...owned quite a few Dynas over the years.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks. The thorens has been in the family since new. My father bought it new in the 70's and gave it to me in the 80's when he bought an oracle. Now that was a cool turntable! I've just always loved the way the thorens sounds. It has a warmth to it without losing detail that most modern turntables in my opinion can't match. Maybe its the wood? Who knows lol


----------



## pedalhead

Considering all the great Pioneer gear throughout this thread, I thought this news was relevant, and rather sad... 

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Pioneer-s-exit-from-stereo-components-marks-end-of-era?n_cid=NARAN012


----------



## buson160man

pedalhead said:


> Considering all the great Pioneer gear throughout this thread, I thought this news was relevant, and rather sad...
> 
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Pioneer-s-exit-from-stereo-components-marks-end-of-era?n_cid=NARAN012


 

  It is a pity another one of the main brands from the old days has bit the dust. The smartphone has changed the way people listen to music. I was unaware of pioneer exiting the consumer electronics business. But they did make their mark with the laser disc (the precursor of the dvd) and the plasma television by pioneering a new technology.


----------



## Skylab

Well, just to be clear, Pioneer isn't exactly exiting the consumer audio business. They sold their audio business to Onkyo, and at the same time bought a significant share of Onkyo. Pioneer's main business for many years has been Car Audio. They are going to focus on that, and have Onkyo make their home audio gear. 

It is sad, in a way, especially for someone like me who has a room full of Pioneer gear that I love, but Pioneer as a company isn't going away. It's not like Sansui


----------



## SpeakerBox

I wonder if TAD will still move forward?


----------



## Oregonian

Rob................keep the pics coming.  Always good to see your glorious equipment!


----------



## frahengeo

Hi All,
  
 I'm not a very active here as I am mostly a speaker (2-channel and 7.1) kinda guy.  I've enjoyed this thread, and wanted to share some of my 'vintage' stuff that I've collected over the last 3 years.
  
 My Sansui 9090DB that I picked up locally.  Didn't work at the time, but I replaced all the fuse resistors on the driver board, and it's working now.  Some day it will need a complete overhaul, however...
  

 Here is the 9090db on top of my G9000DB (all original)

 Here are my Pioneer receivers
  
 SX-1250:  This was recapped recently

 And my SX-1980:  Being recapped by a local guy at this moment

 I also have a Yamaha CR-2020, but no pictures
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 My sons are 12 and 8 years old, and I'm hoping that they will someday adopt this hobby, and I will give them these pieces.  Hey, a Father can dream, can't he?
  
 How do they sound?  They all sound great, but the biggest differences is in the low-end when played at a decent volume (think 11 o'clock).  The 9090, and the Yamaha doesn't seem to reach down as low as the G9000 or either Pioneers.  The Pioneers, and G9000 simply sound effortless (tight) played through my Forte.


----------



## pedalhead

Wow, lovely stuff frahengeo!  More shiny aluminium switchgear than I can count...awesome


----------



## Skylab

Indeed, that's some awesome vintage gear there!!!! Nice!


----------



## buson160man

Bravo awesome stuff thanks for the great pictures . Wish I had the space to collect more of these monster vintage units.


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## SirMarc

Damn man, looks like you could launch a 70's nuke with that g9000 lol


----------



## Oregonian

Great collection!  Pioneer and Sansui!


----------



## frahengeo

Pictures are always fun, right?
  
 Here's a few more:
  
 SX-1250 from the top

 A facelift in preparation for deoxit treatment

 Top of the 9090DB.  This thing was in near mint condition when I picked it up.  Still is.

 The owner kept all the paperwork including the warranty card...

 The SX-1980 looks good from all angles



 hope you enjoy it...


----------



## PhoenixG

frahengeo said:


> Pictures are always fun, right?
> 
> Here's a few more:
> 
> ...


 
 What a great collection in superb condition! Having just one of those legends is enough for most haha!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Frahengeo, your 1250 looks wonderful.  My 1250, while not as nice cosmetically as yours, is the first unit I have had that made me stop asking "whats next?".  I will never part with it.


----------



## frahengeo

speakerbox said:


> Frahengeo, your 1250 looks wonderful.  My 1250, while not as nice cosmetically as yours, is the first unit I have had that made me stop asking "whats next?".  I will never part with it.


 
 Thank you.
  
 It has taken me countless hours of searching on CL as I refuse to buy one without seeing it ‘in person’ since its physical condition was somewhat important to me.  Also, most of these were acquired from the original owner, and there is always some story behind it.
  
 Yes.  Of the receivers, I tend to go to the 1250 more often than others.  It sounds really sweet, and seems to have plenty of power.  At one point, I actually had two 1250, and had recently parted with the second unit.  The only gripe I have about these receivers is that it didn’t fit into my AV cabinet, and I had to build a separate cabinet to accommodate the widths of these pieces.
  
 Do you use your 1250 to drive your headphones?  I've yet to try it, but based on my experience with other receivers from the same era, I have no doubt that it will sound really good.


----------



## Oregonian

frahengeo said:


> Thank you.
> 
> It has taken me countless hours of searching on CL as I refuse to buy one without seeing it ‘in person’ since its physical condition was somewhat important to me.  Also, most of these were acquired from the original owner, and there is always some story behind it.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the SX-1050 and love the headphone out of it!  All the early heavy power Pioneers (80wpc and up) make great headphone amps.  I own 4 myself.............


----------



## SpeakerBox

frahengeo said:


> Do you use your 1250 to drive your headphones?  I've yet to try it, but based on my experience with other receivers from the same era, I have no doubt that it will sound really good.


 
  
 My Sherwood 8900A is used as my HP system.  I have my SX1250 down in the man cave (i.e. basement) hooked to my large Advents.  The 1250 has been totally recapped and all boards resoldered with WBT silver. The sound is glorious!


----------



## Silent One

skylab said:


> I took this glamour shot, apologies to people tired of seeing my vintage rig but it's still my pride any joy. What's new is the TASCAM BR-20 RTR


 
 Tired? _Never._
 I liken shots of your rig to periodically delighting in a fav audio mag but online. It feels good to revisit popular shots!
  
  
  


frahengeo said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm not a very active here as I am mostly a speaker (2-channel and 7.1) kinda guy.  I've enjoyed this thread, and wanted to share some of my 'vintage' stuff that I've collected over the last 3 years.
> 
> ...


 
 Great stuff! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Your _vintage lovelies_ look, well...lovely!
  
  
  


pedalhead said:


> Considering all the great Pioneer gear throughout this thread, I thought this news was relevant, and rather sad...
> 
> http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Pioneer-s-exit-from-stereo-components-marks-end-of-era?n_cid=NARAN012


 
 Sad. But at least with Sansui, the top engineers landed with Hashimoto to produce outstanding output transformers.


----------



## moodyrn

Skylab pics of that rig will never get old. Still stunning!!


Frahengeo welcome to the thread, and wow.... a collection! All mint as well. Nice!!!


----------



## Skylab

silent one said:


> Tired? _Never._
> I liken shots of your rig to periodically delighting in a fav audio mag but online. It feels good to revisit popular shots!







moodyrn said:


> Skylab pics of that rig will never get old. Still stunning!!




Thanks guys  It sure continues to give me great pleasure on a daily basis.


----------



## willmax

Lovely pictures fellas, please keep them coming. Cheers


----------



## Oregonian

Know how ya feel Rob. 
  
 These two creatures were waiting for me tonight....................great end to a brutal day.  
  
 Lose myself in the HE-6's and the bball on the muted tv.  Puts the 11 hour day and 8 meetings into perspective.


----------



## Skylab

oregonian said:


> Know how ya feel Rob.
> 
> These two creatures were waiting for me tonight....................great end to a brutal day.
> 
> Lose myself in the HE-6's and the bball on the muted tv.  Puts the 11 hour day and 8 meetings into perspective.




Ha! I did exactly the same after work as well...and sounds like we have at least somewhat similar jobs :mad:

Went into the basement to my "other" vintage rig and put some Dire Straits on with the Tourney on the TV with the sound off, like you did. Will do the same tonight and will take an updated pic of that rig


----------



## SpeakerBox

I rarely watch TV anymore - but when I do it is always with the TV sound off and music on one of my three systems.


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> I rarely watch TV anymore - but when I do it is always with the *TV sound off and music on* one of my three systems.


 

 I do that more and more with sports.  Don't see the need for the "analysts" opinions of what I just saw.  Some are such blowhards.................


----------



## Exacoustatowner

skylab said:


> I took this glamour shot, apologies to people tired of seeing my vintage rig but it's still my pride any joy. What's new is the TASCAM BR-20 RTR


 
 This is a fantasy shot for my old teenage self. Even many years later, I would just LOVE sitting and LOOKING at this stuff-even if listening to my HiFiman HE-560 HP through my Lyr headphone amp-with an SACD source through my Oppo BDP-105 D. Most modern equipment lacks the physical beauty of this vintage equipment. Dang it!


----------



## PhoenixG

After a 16 hour round trip drive deep into Oregon, I came back with these guys...

 McIntosh XR-290's. Pardon the mess and impressions to follow once they find their final place in the house.


----------



## Coolzo

phoenixg said:


> After a 16 hour round trip drive deep into Oregon, I came back with these guys...
> 
> 
> McIntosh XR-290's. Pardon the mess and impressions to follow once they find their final place in the house.




Whoa. Makes me wish I had jumped on this $600 deal for a pair of (similarly ginormous) Apogee ribbon speakers one time. It was local too... now I just have these cheese wedges haha (EPI model 150s)


----------



## frahengeo

phoenixg said:


> After a 16 hour round trip drive deep into Oregon, I came back with these guys...
> 
> McIntosh XR-290's. Pardon the mess and impressions to follow once they find their final place in the house.


 
 PhoenixG,
  
 I had the pleasure of listening to those speakers when I was auditioning for an SX-1980 a couple of years ago.  The listening room was not setup very well with a lot of knick knacks laying around everywhere, but those speakers sounded fantastic regardless.  I parked myself on the Seller's couch for 15-20 minutes, and got lost in the music.  Almost forgot about all the junk that was laying around.
  
 Their XR-290 was not as good of shape as yours as their cat had tore apart the grill fabric.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Very nice find.  Enjoy!!


----------



## ssrock64

phoenixg said:


> After a 16 hour round trip drive deep into Oregon, I came back with these guys...
> McIntosh XR-290's. Pardon the mess and impressions to follow once they find their final place in the house.


 
 I hesitate to ask how you even hauled such huge speakers across states.


----------



## PhoenixG

frahengeo said:


> ...
> I had the pleasure of listening to those speakers when I was auditioning for an SX-1980 a couple of years ago.  The listening room was not setup very well with a lot of knick knacks laying around everywhere, but those speakers sounded fantastic regardless.


 
 Haha, yeah. That kinda sounds like my space. I think these should be the perfect speakers for an imperfect space.
  


ssrock64 said:


> I hesitate to ask how you even hauled such huge speakers across states.


 
 Logistics were a real challenge. I have a minivan that the wife drives, which was the star of the show. The speakers split in half with two huge bolts each. With the seller's help, the speakers were disassembled and wrapped in plastic wrap. Then the cones were covered with cardboard and the whole thing wrapped in a blanket. Times four. They were carefully packed into the van on their sides and taped together to prevent shifting. The reverse process happened back at my house hours later. Today I wired them to the Sony STR-6120 and played the obvious first choice for testing a new system - DSOTM.
  

 Here's a 'naked' pic.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> Haha, yeah. That kinda sounds like my space. I think these should be the perfect speakers for an imperfect space.
> 
> Logistics were a real challenge. I have a minivan that the wife drives, which was the star of the show. The speakers split in half with two huge bolts each. With the seller's help, the speakers were disassembled and wrapped in plastic wrap. Then the cones were covered with cardboard and the whole thing wrapped in a blanket. Times four. They were carefully packed into the van on their sides and taped together to prevent shifting. The reverse process happened back at my house hours later. Today I wired them to the Sony STR-6120 and played the obvious first choice for testing a new system - DSOTM.
> 
> ...


 

 Holy moly!  Those must sound awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Skylab

Wow, congrats PhoenixG!!!! Those look amazing and I'm sure they sound even better


----------



## SirMarc

Holy crap! I thought my dq20's were big lol. Those things are awesome


----------



## SpeakerBox

The most tweeters I have ever seen on one speaker.


----------



## PhoenixG

Thanks gents; SkyLab, SirMarc, SpeakerBox; you are all very kind.
  
 After playing them for a few hours, I do have a few impressions. If you've ever heard a pair of Klipsch Cornwall 1's, they sound kinda like them, but with a few differences. Both have a real effortless and visceral base. The xr-290's have a slightly cleaner base, but the cornwall is still pleasing. The midrange is even accross the range, but the highs are the biggest 'near'-field sonic difference. The xr-290's have very well defined and revealing highs and refuse to ever be harsh no matter where I stand. The Cornwalls could get the slightest bit harsh on some notes. There is no discernible distortion at any frequency or SPL that I can comfortably attain. So I'm happy with them. More than happy. 
  
 Now here's a major difference : When I listen to them, I feel like the wall has opened and the musician is playing in the void behind where my wall was. I've never felt that before and it's really amazing. Say whatever you want about spaciousness - it just sounds like there is no speaker and instead the whole wall is open to a soundstage. Even when I'm right up on them, inches away. Ever driver is so quiet because of how they share the load that it always seems to be further away than it is. Even when my ear is physically touching it it seems far away.
  
 Another cool effect, the sound field is hyper-uniform. I can lay on the floor, stand on a chair, be down the hall, whatever. Sounds the same. Obviously the stereo effect is gone down the hall, but just 1-2 watts is enough to have a conversation over in the room that they're in and still be able to hear them clearly in another room. Kind weird when you really notice that they attenuate differently than a point source. They're easily twice as loud far away as a point source would be if the same volume was attained in the same room.


----------



## reddog

Very nice sir, very nice indeed.


----------



## moodyrn

All I can say is WOW. What a find, and definitely worth the drive. Big congrats on scoring those.


----------



## terry parr

looks as though the headphone jack on my beloved JVC RX-317 is about to give it up.  i have absolutely loved the h/p out on this under-rated (read:  un-rated) receiver.  lately i've noticed for the past few months that while listening, the sound will just completly cut out from time to time.  i've taken the top off the unit and cleaned in and around the h/p socket with contact cleaner, and also pressed down on that upper, flexible metal piece (which is part of the headphone output housing) hoping to ensure better contact with the h/p plug while it's in the socket.  this will work, but only temporarily.  this unit during the past few years that i've had it has been serviced twice by qualified techs and has been cleaned internally, had resistors and transistors replaced, idle current adjusted, etc. (so, it's had attention and been maintained, so the issue isn't one of the unit being "dirty" by being neglected.  it's clean).
  
 the last time i was listening to it and the music just "cut out" (and it will warn you just prior to the sound cutting out entirely by cutting in and out, like there's something in the h/p socket that isn't making good contact), i got up and applied just a little bit of upward pressure to the h/p jack, and the sound was restored.  now.  i can't sit there on the floor and listen to music while applying pressure to the h/p jack like this.  but, the problem is obviously inside the h/p socket internally.
  
 after asking someone who's much more technically-minded and knowledgeable than i am about this, he said _changing the headphone socket shouldn't alter the overall sound signature of the receiver_ that i'm enjoying,  if i were to change out the socket.
  
 a couple of questions for all you guys who frequent this (very enjoyable) thread, here:  has anyone ever just swapped-out a h/p socket on an older receiver that they like the sound of?
  
 and, two:  if anybody has anything to add that might be helpful to me (as far as anything that i might be missing), i'd appreciate it!
  
  
  
  
 [i'm currently pairing this JVC receiver with a pair of AKG K701 phones that i've had for the past few years.   and, it's a very good pairing.]
  
 the sound signature through this set-up gives you a wide mid-range (most of my preferred listening is acoustic, by a wide margin) clearly-defined highs without any distortion (unlike a pair of AUDEZE LCD-3's that i have.  by the way, over-rated headphone for acoustic music, in my opinion.  over-rated headphone, period.  to my ears.  but that's another post for another day) and this AKG-JVC matchup also gives me the tactile, low-end impact that i like, which no other amp has been able to bring out in the 701's.


----------



## PhoenixG

terry parr said:


> after asking someone who's much more technically-minded and knowledgeable than i am about this, he said _changing the headphone socket shouldn't alter the overall sound signature of the receiver_ that i'm enjoying,  if i were to change out the socket.
> 
> a couple of questions for all you guys who frequent this (very enjoyable) thread, here:  has anyone ever just swapped-out a h/p socket on an older receiver that they like the sound of?


 
 Your friend is right and that's not an uncommon mod. You could easily even do it yourself if you're handy with a soldering iron and maybe a dremmel if the parts aren't a perfect match. Good to see that you've found a combo you like and I hope it works out for you!


----------



## terry parr

thank-you, PhoenixG.  (and, no i'm not "handy with a soldering iron"!!)  i've watched a few of the guys here on this thread do a lot of restoration work themselves and have been impressed with pics of their work here, but i'm better off leaving this headphone socket replacement to somebody with some experience. 
  
 a sansui 551 just recently came up on CL locally, and from what i've read about it, it would probably offer just as good (if not better) sonics,
 BUT looking inside of this sansui, it looks like a total beast to clean and replace parts in.
  
 most japanese design aesthetics go for the "elegant, un-complicated, 'straight-line' layout" (as opposed to say, the german aesthetic, which seems to be: "let's see just how complicated we can make it!").  i'm being a little tongue-in-cheek here, but i
 usually associate the japanese design approach, on the whole, as being a more straight-foreward and less "fussy" design
 implementation.
  
 but, seeing inside that sansui 551, it looks like a tangled and twisted rats-nest of a design where a lot of component parts look hard to access.
  
  
  
 anyway, appreciate the reply, PhoenixG.  i knew a lot of people here on this thread would know what i was talking about.
  
 i'm still looking to preserve this aging JVC if i possibly can!


----------



## buson160man

coolzo said:


> Whoa. Makes me wish I had jumped on this $600 deal for a pair of (similarly ginormous) Apogee ribbon speakers one time. It was local too... now I just have these cheese wedges haha (EPI model 150s)


 

  Some of those apogees were a tough load for amplifiers. A friend of mine had the scintillas which were tough for amplifiers of the time. My friend took things even further when he bypassed the load resistor on the apogees. He said his scintillas presented a half ohm load to the amplifiers. He was using a couple of lazurus ( man were the lazurus amps ugly looking) class a amplifiers to drive them one for each speaker. But he had to use the amps in ab mode because the amps just did not have enough power in the class a mode.


----------



## Oregonian

Just to keep the thread flowing.....................my first vintage amp I bought a couple of years ago still in use in my home office.  One of 8 operating systems in my world.................
  
 Yoga 2 --->FiiO D5 DAC --->KA-5700 with blue LED lights.


----------



## SirMarc

I really want a pioneer sa series integrated, or a sansui au series, but after a recent mad tear on vinyl, I need to stop for a while...
Nice Kenwood by the way


----------



## SirMarc

I'm very happy with my little dynaco sca-50 with headphones, but its not powerful enough to drive my dahlquist dq20's


----------



## ssrock64

oregonian said:


> Just to keep the thread flowing.....................my first vintage amp I bought a couple of years ago still in use in my home office.  One of 8 operating systems in my world.................
> 
> Yoga 2 --->FiiO D5 DAC --->KA-5700 with blue LED lights.


 
 I have that same desk lamp, and I wish I had the same receiver.


----------



## wotts

I'll just leave this here:
  
http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/4952853568.html


----------



## harrinj

I think there's an extra zero in there by mistake or a 2 that does not belong :/ 

 http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/4964031454.html


----------



## wotts

harrinj said:


> I think there's an extra zero in there by mistake or a 2 that does not belong :/
> 
> http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/4964031454.html


 
  
  





  
 I think I saw one go for $500 on AK recently.


----------



## harrinj

wotts said:


> I think I saw one go for $500 on AK recently.


 
 My 4400 was $350.


----------



## wotts

Wow. That's pretty awesome. I think my best deal was the 2265B for $150.


----------



## harrinj

wotts said:


> Wow. That's pretty awesome. I think my best deal was the 2265B for $150.


 
 Good price! I try to find them at garage sales etc like some of the "score" stories you can read on Audiokarma and stuff but never have. I think the frustrating creepy old guy resellers who put these dumb high prices on them 'as is' beat me to them I think


----------



## Exacoustatowner

Oh Nice!! I had 6 ft tall Acoustat speakers way back. I had that listening experience you describe- but with a narrow sweet spot. Congrats!!
quote name="PhoenixG" url="/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/14280#post_11462877"]Thanks gents; SkyLab, SirMarc, SpeakerBox; you are all very kind.

After playing them for a few hours, I do have a few impressions. If you've ever heard a pair of Klipsch Cornwall 1's, they sound kinda like them, but with a few differences. Both have a real effortless and visceral base. The xr-290's have a slightly cleaner base, but the cornwall is still pleasing. The midrange is even accross the range, but the highs are the biggest 'near'-field sonic difference. The xr-290's have very well defined and revealing highs and refuse to ever be harsh no matter where I stand. The Cornwalls could get the slightest bit harsh on some notes. There is no discernible distortion at any frequency or SPL that I can comfortably attain. So I'm happy with them. More than happy. 

Now here's a major difference : When I listen to them, I feel like the wall has opened and the musician is playing in the void behind where my wall was. I've never felt that before and it's really amazing. Say whatever you want about spaciousness - it just sounds like there is no speaker and instead the whole wall is open to a soundstage. Even when I'm right up on them, inches away. Ever driver is so quiet because of how they share the load that it always seems to be further away than it is. Even when my ear is physically touching it it seems far away.

Another cool effect, the sound field is hyper-uniform. I can lay on the floor, stand on a chair, be down the hall, whatever. Sounds the same. Obviously the stereo effect is gone down the hall, but just 1-2 watts is enough to have a conversation over in the room that they're in and still be able to hear them clearly in another room. Kind weird when you really notice that they attenuate differently than a point source. They're easily twice as loud far away as a point source would be if the same volume was attained in the same room.
[/quote]


----------



## Oregonian

wotts said:


> I'll just leave this here:
> 
> http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/4952853568.html




Incredible..........drool inducing. When are you picking it up? 

Buy for $10K and easily make your money back.


----------



## wotts

I'm thinking about it. Bit of a commitment though!


----------



## musicman59

wotts said:


> I'm thinking about it. Bit of a commitment though!


 
 You should buy these too... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-mcintosh-xr5-vintage-full-range-speakers-2015-04-02-speakers-97229-portland-or


----------



## PhoenixG

musicman59 said:


> You should buy these too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Or get these - http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/ele/4938088302.html
 Slightly smaller, come with the required EQ, recapped, refoamed, just better haha.
 Love me some Mc speakers.


----------



## SirMarc

Quick question for you sansui guys. Is 500 a good deal for a recapped au-717?


----------



## jgreen16

If it is in good cosmetic condition, I'd say that is a fairly reasonable price. Do you know if during the recapping process, the infamous Sansui glue was also completely removed?


----------



## jgreen16

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=407467
  
 A quick Google search for Sansui AU-717 glue will return many resources for learning about this glue, and it being corrosive over time. It isn't just isolated to the AU-717 either, but was used in a lot of their equipment of that era.


----------



## SirMarc

Haven't spoken to anyone yet. Looks pretty mint from the pics. I'll probably call tomorrow. Any questions I should ask?


----------



## Skylab

This place, which sells refurbed units at quite steep prices, sold an AU717 for $850. So if the recap was done nicely, $500 is probably very reasonable. 

http://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/san/AU717.html


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks. I'll research the glue issue. Anything else?


----------



## jgreen16

You may want to ask if the output transistors were looked at/checked. Even if they are good, it would be nice if they had been removed, cleaned, and new heatsink compound applied when reinstalling.
  
 Other items to ask about would be if the speaker protection relay was checked, and if the bias and DC offset had been set to spec.
  
 The AU-717 is a very nice piece of equipment, and its rated 85 wpc is widely believed to be pretty conservative.


----------



## jgreen16

A couple of sites to take a look at what a resto of the AU-717 can involve -
  
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/45189-sansui-au717-restoration/
  
http://liquidaudio.com.au/sansui-au-717-amplifier-repair-restoration/


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks guys


----------



## moodyrn

Yes, all very good suggestions. I've worked on a few sansui's and the glue is just a pain to remove. And yes, it is very corrosive. I've seen it eat through resistor leads, capacitors and even the pcb itself. Always a good idea to remove that. I'm sure if it was recapped, this probably was done. I would also make sure out of spec resistors and any germanium trannies were replaced. I just recently worked on an au2000 were one 4.7ohm resistor on the driver board was badly out of spec. It caused the bias to be out of whack and made one side of the output transistors run really hot. Setting the bias to factory spec wouldn't make any difference. after about 20 minutes the bias would jump all the way up from 35mv to over 100mv!.
  
 So just doing a recap isn't going to make it reliable without giving it a complete going over. With all of that said, if it was recapped and everything else has been brought up to snuff, 500.00 is a pretty good price and would be hard to beat. I hope everything goes well. While I personally haven't heard a restored au717, echowars over at AK, thinks a nicely restored one is everybit as good as much higher regarded vintage gear.


----------



## SirMarc

Haven't called yet, not sure I want to do this, as it seems a gamble. Might rather find a beat one for cheaper and get it done up to my spec. Either way, probably looking at at least a thousand I'm guessing. At that point is it worth it? For that money I could pick up a rogue audio integrated with a warranty. Hmm... Does anyone know of a qualified tech in nj?


----------



## buson160man

wotts said:


> I'll just leave this here:
> 
> http://kalamazoo.craigslist.org/ele/4952853568.html


 

  Wow all of that equipment  for only 14 thousand that looks to be a steal for the price. But it sure takes up a lot of room .


----------



## SpeakerBox

Thought you all might get a kick out of this.  This is my vintage Leach Phono Preamp still in the breadboard stage (yes - it looks like a mess).  Sounds stinking good though.  The Leach design was ok for what it was when it was published 38 years ago, but nothing great.  That said it is amazing what some updated parts, additional filtering, and a dual mono implementation can do for sound.  I have literally had these boards in storage for 38 years - just never got around to building them.  I had two sets so made one a right channel and one a left channel with separate power supplies.  Soon it will act as one of the inputs to my Pass DIY B1 Buffer (in progress).  Very pleased with how it is turing out.  Still to come: better signal wiring, better I/O jacks, and the removal of some now unneeded coupling caps.  In the picture it is feeding the amp section of my 1250.


----------



## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> Thought you all might get a kick out of this.  This is my vintage Leach Phono Preamp still in the breadboard stage (yes - it looks like a mess).  Sounds stinking good though.  The Leach design was ok for what it was when it was published 38 years ago, but nothing great.  That said it is amazing what some updated parts, additional filtering, and a dual mono implementation can do for sound.  I have literally had these boards in storage for 38 years - just never got around to building them.  I had two sets so made one a right channel and one a left channel with separate power supplies.  Soon it will act as one of the inputs to my Pass DIY B1 Buffer (in progress).  Very pleased with how it is turing out.  Still to come: better signal wiring, better I/O jacks, and the removal of some now needed coupling caps.  In the picture it is feeding the amp section of my 1250.


 
 What are your plans for the enclosure?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Still thinking.  Will want the B1 and the Leach in the same box.  So will have to plan well.   Any suggestions?


----------



## pedalhead

Look what just arrived at pedalhead's place...Luxman R-1120 in lovely condition


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, PedalHead! She's a beauty!


----------



## Mechans1

I am just visiting your thread .  I   want  to ask a fundamental question,.  Are the headphone circuits in a receiver like my Fisher 400 purpose built or  employing some kind easy shortcut taken from another circuit already serving a distinct purpose? Thank for an answer I hope this isn't asked all of the time.


----------



## Skylab

What many of us like about vintage amps and receivers is that there is no "headphone circuit"...there is just the amplifier, and the headphone out is the same amplifier that's used to drive speakers (often with a dropping resistor in place). Many modern amps and receivers do not power headphones from the main amplifier, and the headphone out is not very high quality. The headphone out of your fisher 400 should be great!


----------



## Dutchi MerenGue

was torn on posting in here or starting a new thread alltogether but i have a problem with my pioneer sa 9500 
  
 i recently moved and before the move it was working perfectly. i didnt even box this unit up i carried it by hand and had it sitting next to me in the car to ensure it wouldnt get damaged.
  
  
 now when i plug it in it will light up but i wont be able to turn it off. it also occasionally makes clicking noises like its trying to engage the speakers or something. i havent tested to see if it works with speakers as im afraid to damage anything i plug into it but i did test the headphone jack with some throwaway koss headphones and a portable mp3 source and it worked but it was really noisy. sounded like **** frankly. the connection was sub optimal so im not ruling out the player and interconnects werent at fault but right now its looking like the pioneer is the main culprit
  
  
 anyone know what could be wrong? im thinking of selling it for parts as is if the fix is too costly or complicated


----------



## Skylab

So the power switch doesn't work? When you plug it in it comes on right away and the power switch doesn't turn it off?

Is the switch damaged physically when you look at it?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sounds like something in the power circuitry.  The clicking noises are probably relays that are not getting enough current to fully engage - and then keep retrying (assuming that unit has output protection relays that is).  It may end up that it is something simple in the power circuit - loose wire or a bad cap.  You may want to have someone estimate the repair for you as the 9500 is a nice unit.


----------



## Mechans1

If you are a DYI type you are OK, as some of the replys indicate. A bad capacitor you can replace or the power switch itself.  Otherwise like me you are at a loss when you try to find a tech who will work on it.  If it's a board that's burned forget it.  I hope you are OK but it sounds like a sell for parts.
 I was looking on ebay for my old high school integrated amp a Kenwood 7100 a couple of days ago and found none for sale .  Just a few years ago there were many for sale mostly damaged I found out.  I don't know if this is a general trend but I keep looking.


----------



## Dutchi MerenGue

speakerbox said:


> Sounds like something in the power circuitry.  The clicking noises are probably relays that are not getting enough current to fully engage - and then keep retrying (assuming that unit has output protection relays that is).  It may end up that it is something simple in the power circuit - loose wire or a bad cap.  You may want to have someone estimate the repair for you as the 9500 is a nice unit.


 
 yeah that actually sounds alot like what might be wrong with this. i might try to look into getting it fixed if the price isnt too high but in either case im most likely going to sell it. i originally bought it to power some passive speakers i no longer have and also for the awesome headphone out i used on my lcd-2's before i sold them. i have no real use for them anymore, better they go to a new home where it will be. it probably is a capacitor that went bad as i made sure to handle it with care during the move. the original owner never recapped, he had it in storage for 20 years or so
  


skylab said:


> So the power switch doesn't work? When you plug it in it comes on right away and the power switch doesn't turn it off?
> 
> Is the switch damaged physically when you look at it?


 
 the power switch sort of works. when the switch is off and i plug the power cord in the unit remains off but once i push the unit on, the light will remain on no matter what i do unless i unplug the power cord itself. im not really technical at all, i removed only the top part of the case to see if anything came loose or anything physically damaged but couldnt identify it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

May be the power relay.


----------



## SirMarc

Dug out a pair of Ohm L's I had in the attic and they're pairing up nicely with my thorens turntable and little dynaco amp. Forgot I had them lol


----------



## joehalo




----------



## SirMarc

No love for the ohm L's huh? Figured you guys would be all over them. Great 70's bookshelf speakers...


----------



## shabta

sirmarc said:


> No love for the ohm L's huh? Figured you guys would be all over them. Great 70's bookshelf speakers...


 
 +1


----------



## Skylab

joehalo said:


>




BEAUTIFUL system, Joe!!!!!!




sirmarc said:


> No love for the ohm L's huh? Figured you guys would be all over them. Great 70's bookshelf speakers...




Not familiar with them...how about some pics?


----------



## SirMarc

[/IMG]
Have to clean the grills and find my old stands. Popped them on some old klh's to get them off the floor


----------



## SirMarc




----------



## SirMarc

The woofers were replaced 10-15 years ago from Ohm. They don't look as good as the original ones with the ohm printed on them, but they tightened up the bass, and seemed to go a bit lower. Overall nice little speaker that doesn't sound little


----------



## Skylab

Nice!!! The only Ohm speakers I've ever seen were the Walsh models - which were impressive.


----------



## harrinj

Is that a Yamaha CR-1020/2020 or even 3020 in your picture there? Sprint loads it too blurry to see and if i tap the picture it starts at the very first picture posted in this entire thread.

I recently got into Yamaha's. Picked up a CR-620 today  Yamaha's don't have the weird vicous pricing issue like Marantz and Pioneer do. Unyet they are beautiful, sound great and easy to work on.


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Nice!!! The only Ohm speakers I've ever seen were the Walsh models - which were impressive.



Thanks man. Gave a rebuilt pair of C2's to my little brother years ago. They were some really nice speakers...


----------



## parbaked

sirmarc said:


> No love for the ohm L's huh? Figured you guys would be all over them. Great 70's bookshelf speakers...


 
 Post here if you want love...
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/552257/calling-all-vintage-speaker-owners/1275


----------



## joehalo

Thanks Skylab. Yes it is a Yamaha CR-2020. Best receiver I've owned so far. Just got a Pioneer SX-1250 yesterday. Can't wait to see if it can dethrone the Yamaha.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Welcome to the 1250 club!   I must say those Yammies are pretty nice though.


----------



## Mechans1

The Pioneer  1250 is quite desirable.  I ended up  looking at a bunch of 70s Japanese receivers and integrated amps when I couldn't find a Kenwood 7100 that wasn't broken looking to replace the one I owned for many years. I noticed you had a pic of a Luxman, I bought some of them too all had issues, one caught fire!


----------



## willmax

joehalo said:


> Thanks Skylab. Yes it is a Yamaha CR-2020. Best receiver I've owned so far. Just got a Pioneer SX-1250 yesterday. Can't wait to see if it can dethrone the Yamaha.


 
 Nice catch. I'd be keen to read your opinion once you have had a chance to compare both units. Cheers


----------



## Wingtip

Not an integrated, but I love the look of the Kenwood 700C & 700M:


----------



## frahengeo

Mmm.  I like the look too.


----------



## Oregonian

Lovely.....................iike Kenwoods.


----------



## buson160man

Went to the  axpona show today and visited the sounds classic table at the  market place. They had a pioneer sx-1980 playing a pair of old altec lansing monster speakers. They were also using an old pioneer reel to reel pretty nice set up but hard to tell exactly what things sounded like with all the ambient noise but it was nice to see these old units in perfect working condition.


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> Went to the  axpona show today and visited the sounds classic table at the  market place. They had a pioneer sx-1980 playing a pair of old altec lansing monster speakers. They were also using an old pioneer reel to reel pretty nice set up but hard to tell exactly what things sounded like with all the ambient noise but it was nice to see these old units in perfect working condition.


 
 Nice! If anyone's in Seattle, I'll be hauling some vintage iron for the meet there Saturday (tomorrow).


----------



## sidrpm

Some Vintage arrivals...


----------



## sidrpm

Apart from the new arrivals above.....Brutus came back fully restored and with LED's


----------



## sidrpm

And this bad boy....


----------



## sidrpm

Even though this is head-fi and this thread is about Vintage Int receivers.....I had to post these pics..that passive radiator...Oh Man..


----------



## Wingtip

Concept 11.0


----------



## ssrock64

wingtip said:


> Concept 11.0


 
 I love how clean Concept units always are. They seem to exemplify the transition that occurred in the late 70s and early 80s to less cluttered receiver designs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

wingtip said:


> Concept 11.0


 
  
 I just got home from the GW vinyl rack with a mint copy of Tea for the Tiller-man.  Interesting coincidence!


----------



## frahengeo

sidrpm said:


> And this bad boy....


 
 Gotta love the Sui's  Does it have balanced inputs?


----------



## Skylab

buson160man said:


> Went to the  axpona show today and visited the sounds classic table at the  market place. They had a pioneer sx-1980 playing a pair of old altec lansing monster speakers. They were also using an old pioneer reel to reel pretty nice set up but hard to tell exactly what things sounded like with all the ambient noise but it was nice to see these old units in perfect working condition.




That was this:




And yeah, it wasn't possible from the place it was in to know how it sounded, but that's good stuff!!!! I was shocked, but psyched, to see that there.


----------



## wotts

I saw that too! When I went by the tape deck on the other side was playing. Very cool to see.


----------



## jgreen16

You don't often see a CT-F1000 with a wood cabinet either. A great cassette deck IMO.


----------



## joehalo

Just sold the SX-1250. The CR-2020 beats it hands down in the sound department. The Pioneer was noticeably more powerful but had harsher highs and somewhat boomy bass compared to the Yamaha.


----------



## Wingtip

I love the look of those Yamahas. There was a very clean CR-3020 on SF Bay Area CL last fall. The guy was asking for a lot of cash but probably got it; the top of the line model always commands a premium. I researched the CR line at the time and the consensus appears to be that the CR-2020 and CR-2040 are the best-sounding models, better than the 3020 despite its massive power. In many audio product lines, the model second from the top is often the best value, and sometimes the best performer.


----------



## SpeakerBox

joehalo said:


> Just sold the SX-1250. The CR-2020 beats it hands down in the sound department. The Pioneer was noticeably more powerful but had harsher highs and somewhat boomy bass compared to the Yamaha.


 
  
 I found the sound of my 1250 to be uninspiring when I first got it.  That said, after I did the restoration it became something magical.


----------



## Zulkr9

How does the luxman l85 v sound


----------



## rage3324

I acquired a Marantz 2230 for my Thorens turntable and I have to say my HD800 sound fantastic out of the 2230. I have yet to try my Grado's..
  
 What is the general consensus around here regarding headphone impedance and older Marantz stereos?
  
 I'm considering adding my Woo Audio WA7 or DNA Stratus (when it arrives) to my turntable rig to use with headphones, but not sure it is worth it if the Marantz sound is that good. Else, I am going to sell my WA7. 
  
 Any insight is appreciated


----------



## SirMarc

I use a vintage dynaco integrated with my thorens Td145 and sennheiser hd580's and I'm pretty happy. Very good synergy going on here. Punches way out of its class


----------



## SirMarc

sirmarc said:


> I use a vintage dynaco integrated with my thorens Td145 and sennheiser hd580's and I'm pretty happy. Very good synergy going on here. Punches way out of its class


To put my comment into context, I have an aune t1 tube dac with a nos amperex 7308 tube from 1966 and an Asgard 2, and my vintage rig trounces it...


----------



## Wingtip

After falling in love with the LCD-3 at CanJam in March, I finally pulled the trigger on a set. I immediately jacked them into my main system, which is built around a McIntosh MA-6600 integrated amp. It sounded okay, but I was a little disappointed; the cans were too restrained, too polite. 

After an hour or so, I moved to my bedroom system, which is based on a vintage Concept 11.0 receiver. Holy crap. This is the sound that led me down the garden path! The Concept's grip and authority is startling. At medium-high volume, I was watching the meters bounce between 20 and 40 watts. I don't know the impedance of the resistor between the amp and the headphone jack, but there was a lot of juice being pushed into the HP output to meet the LCD-3's 110 ohm impedance. 

I'm so happy with this combo. I was really worried for a moment that I'd formed a false impression at CanJam and blown my money on a dud set of headphones. I knew amplification was importan, but it didn't occur to me that a beastly 200 wpc McIntosh integrated woudn't be up to the task. The vintage Concept just bent the LCD-3 to its will and drove them beautifully. Now I have to move it to my living room!


----------



## moodyrn

Good stuff, my mcintosh 2205 also at 200wpc couldn't do much with my he6 from the headphone jack either which is why i opted to use the speaker taps. The speaker taps from yours would be way too much for the lcd-3 though. But the macs uses higher impedace resistors than others from the vintage era. With yours being semi-vintage, its no suprise the headphone out wasn't up to task. But if you want to drive your cans from the headphone out of the mac, you can swap the dropping resistors on the headphone outs with lower impedance resistors. But i wouldnt bother. That concept is a killer receiver. It probably wont sound much better.


----------



## zach915m

rage3324 said:


> I acquired a Marantz 2230 for my Thorens turntable and I have to say my HD800 sound fantastic out of the 2230. I have yet to try my Grado's..
> 
> What is the general consensus around here regarding headphone impedance and older Marantz stereos?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would be interested in the answer to this as well, the headphones I've tried with my 2220b seem to vary in how well the Marantz loves them. 
  
 Glad you found a Marantz Rage, equally glad I ended up keeping mine!


----------



## rage3324

zach915m said:


> I would be interested in the answer to this as well, the headphones I've tried with my 2220b seem to vary in how well the Marantz loves them.
> 
> Glad you found a Marantz Rage, equally glad I ended up keeping mine!


 
  
 Turns out my dad had a 2230, had to snag it. I'm with you regarding headphone pairings with the 22x0 series. I want to say the 2220/2230 prefers high impedance headphones but i'm not positive. My HD800 sound great. My DT770 600 ohms sound okay. I have not tried any of my Grados yet but plan to this week. Overall, I really have not done any a/b comparisons with my Woo WA7 so this could all be in my head but I really think I prefer the 2230 over the WA7 for my HD800. Bigger soundstage, more detail... but that could easily be due to the analog source


----------



## zach915m

rage3324 said:


> Turns out my dad had a 2230, had to snag it. I'm with you regarding headphone pairings with the 22x0 series. I want to say the 2220/2230 prefers high impedance headphones but i'm not positive. My HD800 sound great. My DT770 600 ohms sound okay. I have not tried any of my Grados yet but plan to this week. Overall, I really have not done any a/b comparisons with my Woo WA7 so this could all be in my head but I really think I prefer the 2230 over the WA7 for my HD800. Bigger soundstage, more detail... but that could easily be due to the analog source


 
  
 Don't you live near Damen and Huron, like 10 feet from me?  I'll have to PM you so I can hear it with the HD800's.
  
 Anyways, I think Grado's would sound great with it even though I don't currently have a set, my dog years ago chewed up my SR60 lol.  I can see the Marantz's having somewhat similar tone to the WA7, I'm going back and forth between my Violectric 281 right now and they have a lot of similarities in that they are both "full" sounding without losing any details.  It's really quite shocking and alarming considering I got the Marantz kinda beat up for under $100 bucks and then had it cleaned up.


----------



## Mechans1

The last I looked for my high school integrated I couldn't find any for sale on eBay. I don't know if it is a trend but it's possible that a lot of the 70s receivers and amp have been bought and either thrown out, parted out, or kept.  I may be jumping the gun and thing are no cycled through.. I do have a Fisher 400 from the 60s all tube  which is fine with me.  I have had all tube speaker gear for a while .  In fact I have more tubes than sense.*
  
 *If anyone needs a specific tube I might be able to help you out.


----------



## Seamaster

moodyrn said:


> Good stuff, my mcintosh 2205 also at 200wpc couldn't do much with my he6 from the headphone jack either which is why i opted to use the speaker taps. The speaker taps from yours would be way too much for the lcd-3 though. But the macs uses higher impedace resistors than others from the vintage era. With yours being semi-vintage, its no suprise the headphone out wasn't up to task. But if you want to drive your cans from the headphone out of the mac, you can swap the dropping resistors on the headphone outs with lower impedance resistors. But i wouldnt bother. That concept is a killer receiver. It probably wont sound much better.




I have a mac ma6900. My service tech replaced the 600 ohm resistor in HP out to a 50ohm one that made some positive improvement but not as much as I was hoping for. My old Sony ta2000f has better HP out.


----------



## CanadianMaestro

Would a Sony STR-D511 qualify for "vintage"?


----------



## rage3324

zach915m said:


> Don't you live near Damen and Huron, like 10 feet from me?  I'll have to PM you so I can hear it with the HD800's.
> 
> Anyways, I think Grado's would sound great with it even though I don't currently have a set, my dog years ago chewed up my SR60 lol.  I can see the Marantz's having somewhat similar tone to the WA7, I'm going back and forth between my Violectric 281 right now and they have a lot of similarities in that they are both "full" sounding without losing any details.  It's really quite shocking and alarming considering I got the Marantz kinda beat up for under $100 bucks and then had it cleaned up.




Stop by anytime. I also have grado rs1i and ps1000 if you want to check those out too. Going to sell either the ps1000 or rs1i soon. I also have a DNA Audio Stratus demo unit on its way. Plenty of high end gear to check out. 

And I agree. The prices are going up on these but at under $300 it Is still tough to beat the value of these amps.


----------



## roadcykler

Not typically, as it was made in the early to mid 90's. I think for the purposes of amps and receivers, the vintage era is late 70's and earlier. Maybe early 80's. That doesn't mean it isn't a good receiver/amp, just maybe not "vintage".


----------



## CJG888

Would you consider a Technics SU-8088 (1979 vintage) worth recapping? I remember it sounding quite good, but it has been in storage since the early 90s.

Do you know if the headphone jack is driven by the speaker outputs (via a resistor)?


----------



## analogsurviver

cjg888 said:


> Would you consider a Technics SU-8088 (1979 vintage) worth recapping? I remember it sounding quite good, but it has been in storage since the early 90s.
> 
> Do you know if the headphone jack is driven by the speaker outputs (via a resistor)?


 
 Any technics of that vintage is worth recapping. It is a foolow up model of SU-8080 (added MC phono capability ) - and I use recapped an modded SU-8080 in one of my systems. 
  
 8080 has MM pono input straight from the SU-9070 preamp - and that is an excellent phono . 8080 has a power amp the same as SE-9060 power amplifier - with a simplified power supply . I did not check whether the 8088 is similar/same - but you can check for both in the hifiengine database : 
 http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/technics/su-8088.shtml
  
 http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/technics/su-8080.shtml
  
 What I do know for certain is the fact, demonstrated many times, that this 8080/9060 amp can, despite being on paper 70-80 W amp, drive the most obnoxious of electrostatic speakers with impedances approaching zero in the treble to very loud listening levels - putting most of the rest to shame.
  
 So, if 8088 is "similar/same" to the 8080, no doubt worth recapping. Ther are listeners who prefer its midrange to practically anything else - it is system dependant, but once a good match is found, you are unlikely to part with it.
  
 Checking the schematics will answer if headphone out on 8088 is connected to pwr amp via resistor or not. In 8080 it is.


----------



## CJG888

My father used to use it to drive JBL L212s....


----------



## analogsurviver

cjg888 said:


> My father used to use it to drive JBL L212s....


 
 MUCH easier load than King's Audio original first generation of King electrostatic - from your neck of woods...
 http://dagogo.com/king-sound-the-king-panel-speaker-review


----------



## buson160man

wingtip said:


> After falling in love with the LCD-3 at CanJam in March, I finally pulled the trigger on a set. I immediately jacked them into my main system, which is built around a McIntosh MA-6600 integrated amp. It sounded okay, but I was a little disappointed; the cans were too restrained, too polite.
> 
> After an hour or so, I moved to my bedroom system, which is based on a vintage Concept 11.0 receiver. Holy crap. This is the sound that led me down the garden path! The Concept's grip and authority is startling. At medium-high volume, I was watching the meters bounce between 20 and 40 watts. I don't know the impedance of the resistor between the amp and the headphone jack, but there was a lot of juice being pushed into the HP output to meet the LCD-3's 110 ohm impedance.
> 
> I'm so happy with this combo. I was really worried for a moment that I'd formed a false impression at CanJam and blown my money on a dud set of headphones. I knew amplification was importan, but it didn't occur to me that a beastly 200 wpc McIntosh integrated woudn't be up to the task. The vintage Concept just bent the LCD-3 to its will and drove them beautifully. Now I have to move it to my living room!


 
  I know what you mean. I had purchased a lcd2 v2 a couple of years ago and was largely disappointed in their sound. But I decided to try a upgrade cable . I went with a cable pro reverie single ended cable. After the cable upgrade the sound was much more like what I had expected from the lcd2. But last year after following threads about how good these vintage receivers worked for driving headphones I decided to shop for one . I luckily came across a recapped concept 16.5 for just under a grand. I bought it after a brief listen at the store with speakers .I burned in the amp for a bit using my lcd2s and akg 701s but not really listening for a day or two. When I sat down and really listened I was surprised at how much authority my headphones had. The concepts ability to sort things out so I was hearing everything the recordings brought to the table was on a completely different level from any headphone amp that I have heard regardless of cost . The store salesperson had inferred that these concept receivers were something special. I had never heard anything about the concept line before . After some research the concept units are held in high regard by vintage collectors .Seems that a lot of them have multiple concept units in their collection . I sure am glad to have at least one . My concept is going nowhere and has largely supplanted my other headphone amps for general use .


----------



## buson160man

wingtip said:


> Concept 11.0


 

  Nice piece looks to be in very good shape.


----------



## Mechans1

I tried my Fisher 400 today for the first time since I had other tube headphone amps to compare it to.  I am mildly disappointed to report that the Fisher does not suit my preferences on head phones, as much as it does as a speaker amp.  As just  mentioned with a reference to a Mac 6600  the sound is just a tad too polite.  It lacks the attack edges, clarity, detail, and decay that I want and so many seem to eschew. As a speaker amp it is fine because it is good at making a 3d soundstage which is what the tube magic really is all about. Tube amplification does not mean slow syrupy rolled off treble, far from it, it has more sparkle if properly done than others esp. OTLs like what I use now.
 I'll keep my eyes open for good old gear anyway. I can help but believe that there is still some great stuff out there, but not as much as there was just a few years ago.


----------



## moodyrn

The fishers have much less output from the headphone out than even typical mcintosh does. From the start, you are only dealing with 20-25wpc vs 50-300wpc vs typical vintage solid state gear. And it's not like they still don't use high ohm resistors after that. My 500c uses 330ohm resistors for it's headphone out. The sound is sublime with my 40ohm w3000, but that's the only can I have or had at any time that sounds great from the headphone out which is only outputting around 200-250mw. But my he6 sounds exceptional out of the speaker taps. The 25wpc from the speaker taps is pretty much perfect with those.
  
 Oh and one thing I'v learned after becoming pretty good at reading schematics is, the headphone out isn't quiet fully what you get from the speaker taps. The positive side of each channel is coming directly off the L+R positive windings of the transformers. But the negative side is grounded to the chassis and not coming directly off of the transformer's negative windings(both positive and negative off the transformer windings are actively driven) I use to always wonder how the headphone out could have a common ground off a transformer coupled tube amp. But the 200mw do sound excellent if you have easy to drive, low impedance cans. 
  
 For someone who don't want to mess around with any modding, I would recommend mid tier  and above lines as a starting point from such brands as pioneer, sansui, kenwood, harmon kardon, yamaha, sherwood, concept etc. Those are the one which put out serious driving power from their headphone outs. Some of the older macs do too, but they are much more hit or miss. The ma6200(75wpc) could drive my he6 from the headphone out. The 2205(200wpc) could not. The 2505(50wpc) could also drive them from the headphone out.


----------



## cleverhandle

I figured it was about time I posted a picture of my home office setup:  a Thorens TD318 running through a Sherwood S-7110A receiver.  The Sherwood is 25wpc, I believe.  If any of the experts here know better, please correct me.  It sounds fantastic - no hum in the phono section, tuner is exceptional, plenty of power for my purposes.  It's in pristine condition other than some scratchy pots and a broken power switch.


----------



## SpeakerBox

cleverhandle said:


> I figured it was about time I posted a picture of my home office setup:  a Thorens TD318 running through a Sherwood S-7110A receiver.  The Sherwood is 25wpc, I believe.  If any of the experts here know better, please correct me.  It sounds fantastic - no hum in the phono section, tuner is exceptional, plenty of power for my purposes.  It's in pristine condition other than some scratchy pots and a broken power switch.


 
  
 Very nice!  I have weighed in many times here on the vintage Sherwood units - great value.  Awesome sound, great FM and Phono sections.  The S-7100A and S-8900A are the ones I have liked the most.  I had a 7110B briefly and loved it too - wish I did not sell.  My 8900A is my main HP amp and could listen to it forever.


----------



## cleverhandle

speakerbox said:


> Very nice!  I have weighed in many times here on the vintage Sherwood units - great value.  Awesome sound, great FM and Phono sections.  The S-7100A and S-8900A are the ones I have liked the most.  I had a 7110B briefly and loved it too - wish I did not sell.  My 8900A is my main HP amp and could listen to it forever.


 

 Thanks!  It's a true Goodwill diamond.  I opened the case and did a visual inspection, then pretty much threw my money at the cash register and rushed home.  I gave it a little cleaning and plugged it in, and have been loving it ever since.  The previous owner should get a commendation or something...


----------



## zach915m

cleverhandle said:


> Thanks!  It's a true Goodwill diamond.  I opened the case and did a visual inspection, then pretty much through my money at the cash register and rushed home.  I gave it a little cleaning and plugged it in, and have been loving it ever since.  The previous owner should get a commendation or something...


 

 Dang, my wife goes to Salvation Army/Goodwill all the time and I've dreamt many a time of finding something like that!  Congrats.


----------



## xevman

Guys just a heads up, if you find any mid 70s era sansui amplifiers/receivers even the entry level ones highly suggest you pick them up because they sound fantastic all of them. Recently serviced this vintage Sansui au 2900 very basic and entry level amp of the series same can't be said about the sound though because testing it against my fathers yamaha as-700 we have lying around it was honestly the nicer one to listen to. Bass was thick and impactful on the B&W speakers i tested it on even with the loudness off. Honestly shocked considering how entry level this is.


----------



## Silent One

We love listening to our Sansui here in SoCal!
  
 Silent One
 Team Sansui


----------



## Seamaster

Scored this on the flea-bay the other day, waiting to come in:
  

  


 That I can use this with it:


----------



## Seamaster

It is a pair of Sony TA-N77ES. Now only one is hooked up. I know the Sony has a kind of variable input can act like volume control but my iFi micro has so much gain that almost blew my ear drum out when I tried it the other day. I think my 3-year-old son next to me got PTSD from that one incident when I tried that!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice gear Seamaster!


----------



## frahengeo

xevman said:


> Guys just a heads up, if you find any mid 70s era sansui amplifiers/receivers even the entry level ones highly suggest you pick them up because they sound fantastic all of them. Recently serviced this vintage Sansui au 2900 very basic and entry level amp of the series same can't be said about the sound though because testing it against my fathers yamaha as-700 we have lying around it was honestly the nicer one to listen to. Bass was thick and impactful on the B&W speakers i tested it on even with the loudness off. Honestly shocked considering how entry level this is.


 
 Anyone reading this thread is most likely aware of this, but  thanks for the heads up.


----------



## xevman

frahengeo said:


> Anyone reading this thread is most likely aware of this, but  thanks for the heads up.


 
 A lot of people seem to avoid the entry level stuff of that era, thats why I brought it up because not all entry level gear in that era is good.


----------



## Mechans1

I will add that many of us weren't in a position to buy the up level gear but we coveted it. We may have already own/owned entry level gear.    So these many years later we are interested in fulfilling these desires, and look for the gear we couldn't get then.  I bought the best I could which stood up for many years, but then wanted the  top model.


----------



## frahengeo

And with the current global demand for TOTL 'vintage' gear, we are now back to where we were.  Not many could or want to pay the asking prices of a Marantz 2500 or a Sansui G33000 or BA/CA3000 today.
  
 Out of curiosity, anyone here have any thoughts/knowledge on gear produced from the 80's and on?  Do you have any separates/int amps/receivers that you would consider 'keepers'.  How do you think they fare against gear from the 70's and before?
  
 If we fast forward 20 - 30 years from now, will desirable vintage gear still consist of those from the 70's and before?


----------



## analogsurviver

frahengeo said:


> And with the current global demand for TOTL 'vintage' gear, we are now back to where we were.  Not many could or want to pay the asking prices of a Marantz 2500 or a Sansui G33000 or BA/CA3000 today.
> 
> Out of curiosity, anyone here have any thoughts/knowledge on gear produced from the 80's and on?  Do you have any separates/int amps/receivers that they would consider 'keepers'.  How do you think they fare against gear from the 70's and before?
> 
> If we fast forward 20 - 30 years from now, will desirable vintage gear still consist of those from the 70's and before?


 
 Technics and Nikko - but separates, not receivers.


----------



## gixxerwimp

I just found this thread and searched for info on my amp, but didn't see anything. So here goes.
  
 I bought a Yamaha "Natural Sound" A-450 integrated amp in highschool as part of my first system. I've used it to power my living/bedroom speakers until I bought an NAD D3020 a little over a year ago, at which time I put it in a cupboard. It only just occurred to me that I could use it as a headphone amp.
  
 Can anyone tell me if it would be any good as a headphone amp? For the price ($150 in 1981), it did a pretty good job driving bookshelf speakers. Pots have gotten a bit noisy, and I had to replace some of the indicator bulbs. But it was a pretty nice unit and worked reliably for over 30 years.
  
 I've started reading this discussion, but the first few pages don't seem to reach any conclusions.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/338299/many-av-receivers-stereo-integrated-amps-do-not-use-opamp-powered-headphone-jacks


----------



## KeithEmo

gixxerwimp said:


> I just found this thread and searched for info on my amp, but didn't see anything. So here goes.
> 
> I bought a Yamaha "Natural Sound" A-450 integrated amp in highschool as part of my first system. I've used it to power my living/bedroom speakers until I bought an NAD D3020 a little over a year ago, at which time I put it in a cupboard. It only just occurred to me that I could use it as a headphone amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There are a couple of important factors that determine the answer to that question.....
  
 1) If you have low-efficiency planar headphones that actually require a speaker amplifier to drive them well, then the only thing that matters is how good the main amplifiers in that receiver actually are (because you'll be using them directly). Other than the way it actually sounds, the only real issue there is that some speaker amplifiers may be too noisy to make great headphone amps. (Even though low-efficiency planars aren't going to be much fussier about the noise floor than speakers, they're still headphones, and they're attached directly to your ears, so background noise that you might not notice with speakers might be audible.)
  
 2) In "the old days" the most common way of "making" a headphone output was to simply run the output of the speaker amplifier through a voltage divider (a pair of resistors) to drop the level. This is _NOT_ a great way to run normal headphones for several reasons. For one thing, many speaker amps of this vintage and quality aren't especially quiet, and this becomes more obvious with headphones. For another, since the resistors are in series between the output and your headphones, they raise the output impedance seen by the headphones. (If they used a voltage _DIVIDER_, then the output impedance at the output end of the divider will be the parallel combination of the two resistors - so, if they used a 100 ohm resistor and a 10 ohm resistor, the output impedance will work out to about 9 ohms, which is not great but still OK. However, if they did it the really cheesy way and just put one resistor in series with the output, then the output impedance is pretty much simply the value of this resistor - so, if they used a 100 ohm resistor, the output impedance is 100 ohms. This means that you have almost no damping factor, which means that the output will interact with your particular headphones (so it may sound very different with different headphones), and simply won't sound very good with many headphones.
  
 3) If you're lucky, then an old receiver will have an actual dedicated amplifier on its headphone. It is also true that most older receivers would have used separate transistors for this, but that isn't really important (both IC amplifiers and amplifiers made out of separate transistors can be good or bad - and neither is especially likely to be better than the other). The simple reality is that, until recently, the sound quality of the headphone output wasn't considered to be terribly important - so they range from "really awful" to "quite good". The problem is that, unless you know specifically that the headphone amp in a given model and brand is good, the only way to tell is to try it (you sometimes find lousy headphone outputs in otherwise excellent units, and you sometimes find really excellent headphone outputs in receivers that aren't otherwise especially good).
  
 HOWEVER, the headphone amplifier is a really tiny portion of the electronic circuitry in a typical receiver or integrated amp - literally a few dollars worth of parts at most. Therefore, unless you're using the speaker outputs (and so the main amps) to run low-efficiency planars, using the headphone output on an integrated amp for a headphone amp makes about as much sense as keeping your old car around so you can use the radio. (It's doubtful if the headphone amp in the most expensive receiver or integrated amp around is anywhere near as good as the little $99 one from Schiit audio, and you're running a lot of other junk just to use tat one little corner of it). So, by all means, try the headphone amp on the one you have and see if you like the way it sounds, and, if you're buying a receiver or integrated amp anyway, you might as well check around for a model that's known for having a decent headphone output, but don't even consider _BUYING_ a receiver or integrated amp just to use its headphone amp to run ordinary headphones; it's just not worth it.


----------



## Skylab

I had always hoped headphone amp manufacturers would never find this thread. Looks like the party is over, boys, we should all just pack up our 900+ pages of fun and go home. :rolleyes:


----------



## Terja

Lol ... I've bought vintage receivers, integrated amps just to run headphones. What can I say ... Recently found a fantastic matching integrated for the Sennheiser HD650s, very obscure Korean made Citizen JSA 8 which I gifted to my son. It's the best amp I've found so far for the HD650s and I've tried several (>10), oh yeah including dedicated headphone amps.


----------



## Oregonian

gixxerwimp said:


> I just found this thread and searched for info on my amp, but didn't see anything. So here goes.
> 
> I bought a Yamaha "Natural Sound" A-450 integrated amp in highschool as part of my first system. I've used it to power my living/bedroom speakers until I bought an NAD D3020 a little over a year ago, at which time I put it in a cupboard. It only just occurred to me that I could use it as a headphone amp.
> 
> ...


 

 The short answer - YES, it will make a great headphone amp.  Better than most "headphone amps" and trust Skylab and I, we kid you not.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *KeithEmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> There are a couple of important factors that determine the answer to that question.....
> 
> ...


 
   


> *Skylab* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I had always hoped headphone amp manufacturers would never find this thread. Looks like the party is over, boys, we should all just pack up our 900+ pages of fun and go home.


 
  
 I feel like I've just moved to a new town (i.e. "_Head-Fi World_") and gotten used to the surroundings, only to discover there's an underground level with a renegade population hiding from the authorities. And then some bald guy with cool sunglasses, bad acne scarring and a long leather coat gave me a red pill. Where the hell am I? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


> *Terja* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Lol ... I've bought vintage receivers, integrated amps just to run headphones. What can I say ... Recently found a fantastic matching integrated for the Sennheiser HD650s, very obscure Korean made Citizen JSA 8 which I gifted to my son. It's the best amp I've found so far for the HD650s and I've tried several (>10), oh yeah including dedicated headphone amps.


 
  


> *Oregonian* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> The short answer - YES, it will make a great headphone amp.  Better than most "headphone amps" and trust Skylab and I, we kid you not.


 
  
 I have to say, *KeithEmo *makes some good points (even if he is on the "dark side" of the headphone amp makers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and has given me some direction for investigating what's under the cover of my amp. The PCB layout is pretty simple and wide-open from what I saw when replacing the indicator bulbs, so I should be able to determine how the HP output is powered.
  
 On the other hand, the proof is in the listening. Seems like lots of anectodal evidence of people being very happy with the sound coming out of their vintage amp HP outputs. I've got an iFi micro iDSD and ZMF Blackwood LTD coming next month, so once I've got a handle on the amp section of the micro I can play around with the Yamaha. Admittedly, in my search for a USB DAC/amp, I've had a hard time distinguishing the sound quality differences between my Note 3, HA-2, HiFi-M8, and HA-1, other than with "hard to drive" phones like the HD 800 and HE-560.


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> The short answer - YES, it will make a great headphone amp.  Better than most "headphone amps" and trust Skylab and I, we kid you not.


 
 +1.


----------



## micmacmo

gixxerwimp said:


> I just found this thread and searched for info on my amp, but didn't see anything. So here goes.
> 
> I bought a Yamaha "Natural Sound" A-450 integrated amp in highschool as part of my first system. I've used it to power my living/bedroom speakers until I bought an NAD D3020 a little over a year ago, at which time I put it in a cupboard. It only just occurred to me that I could use it as a headphone amp.


 
 I'm using a restored Yamaha A-550 to drive headphones. The caps haven't broken in but I'd have to say it's a nice combination with my orthos off the speaker taps. Definitely on the warm side and never fatiguing.


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *micmacmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I'm using a restored Yamaha A-550 to drive headphones. The caps haven't broken in but I'd have to say it's a nice combination with my orthos off the speaker taps. Definitely on the warm side and never fatiguing.


 
  
 Cool! Big brother to my barebones, bottom-of-the-line A-450. Bought it at A&B Sound in Vancouver on Boxing Day with money I saved from my part-time job flipping burgers at McDonald's.
  
 Not thinking about using the speaker taps (I see you've got HE-6). You've also got some modded T50RPs which would be similar to the ZMFs I'm getting. Speaker taps would be overkill for those, no?
  
 Can you tell me anything about the headphone section?


----------



## gixxerwimp

> *KeithEmo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks to *micmacmo's post* 

 about his A-550, I found a service manual for his amp (which I figured would basically be the same as mine). The block diagram shows that the headphone out uses the "cheesy method" with a resistor in series. The schematic shows that it's a pair of 220Ω resistors.
  

  

  
 I popped the lid and found the headphone-out board. The L/R positive speaker outputs go from the main board to either side of the headphone socket. The speaker signals then come out at the R-hand side of the headphone-out board and then back to the speaker taps. The resistors are marked "red, red, brown, gold", and measure 221Ω and 219Ω.
  

  
 So it looks like the output impedance of my headphone jack is 220Ω + the output impedance of the amp itself. Is this necessarily a bad thing? It seems not necessarily.
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance
  
 Plus, the ZMFs I'm getting have a T50RP driver which has a very flat impedance curve. So the "cheesy method" won't have an adverse effect. I think it'll be the hiss that might be my major problem using this amp for headphones, as I seem to remember it being quite significant.


----------



## Skylab

Right, that's part of my objection to the whole argument - it's FAR from a given that the high output impedance of the headphone out of vintage amps is a bad thing, it's also FAR from a given that vintage amps will be noisy...especially for those of us who have recapped/restored ours. 

Coming into an enthusiast thread and spouting a bunch of tired dogma as a reason why the enthusiasts are wrong...well I don't get why that seemed like a good idea. The proof, indeed, is in the listening, and I for one have heard some of the best headphone amps ever made, and I'm perfectly happy listening to the headphone out of my Pioneer SX-1980. Call me kooky


----------



## BGRoberts

skylab said:


> Right, that's part of my objection to the whole argument - it's FAR from a given that the high output impedance of the headphone out of vintage amps is a bad thing, it's also FAR from a given that vintage amps will be noisy...especially for those of us who have recapped/restored ours.
> 
> Coming into an enthusiast thread and spouting a bunch of tired dogma as a reason why the enthusiasts are wrong...well I don't get why that seemed like a good idea. The proof, indeed, is in the listening, and I for one have heard some of the best headphone amps ever made, and I'm perfectly happy listening to the headphone out of my Pioneer SX-1980. Call me kooky


 
  
  
 Nawwww
 Kooky was on 77 Sunset Strip.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> Right, that's part of my objection to the whole argument - it's FAR from a given that the high output impedance of the headphone out of vintage amps is a bad thing, it's also FAR from a given that vintage amps will be noisy...especially for those of us who have recapped/restored ours.
> 
> Coming into an enthusiast thread and spouting a bunch of tired dogma as a reason why the enthusiasts are wrong...well I don't get why that seemed like a good idea. The proof, indeed, is in the listening, and I for one have heard some of the best headphone amps ever made, and I'm perfectly happy listening to the headphone out of my Pioneer SX-1980. Call me kooky


 

 +1000
  
 I own 8 systems, ALL in use, and have never had this hiss issue with any headphone I've tried on them - and I've tried over 50 now, from HE-6 from the taps to a M Audio Q40 and a lot in between. 
  
 The thing is - we vintage fans KNOW what we have and it's like lightning in a bottle.  It's only a bit sad that more of the thousands of Head Fi members DON'T know about vintage speaker amps.  They think headphone amps are the ONLY way to go.  Or, for us who sometimes think there's a reduced inventory in the free world (true) maybe we're better off not sharing our discovery.  Either way, we are the proud old school owners of what we love.    
  
 Skylab was the impetus for my vintage addiction - and for that I'm eternally grateful!
  
 Another reminder of the other benefit of vintage - they look pretty darn good.  Not that men are visual creatures but.............


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> +1000
> 
> I own 8 systems, ALL in use, and have never had this hiss issue with any headphone I've tried on them - and I've tried over 50 now, from HE-6 from the taps to a M Audio Q40 and a lot in between.
> 
> ...


 
 They sure do look good, but they can also have a bit of "character" as well. Quick story - I just got the sx-1980 back from a full recap a few weeks ago and I've been troubleshooting a few very minor gremlins ever since. First, it was dropping channels. Resoldered the volume pot and we're back in business. Now it's surging volume on the phono input. I suspect a cracked solder on a cap. Either way, I'm going to feel like a genius when I figure it out...


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> They sure do look good, but they can also have a bit of "character" as well. Quick story - I just got the sx-1980 back from a full recap a few weeks ago and I've been troubleshooting a few very minor gremlins ever since. First, it was dropping channels. Resoldered the volume pot and we're back in business. Now it's surging volume on the phono input. I suspect a cracked solder on a cap. Either way, I'm going to feel like a genius when I figure it out...


 

 Dang, you have a 1980?!  :bows down:


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> Dang, you have a 1980?!  :bows down:


 
 Haha, sometimes I feel like half of this thread has one or something just as good. You have some good stuff too!


----------



## claybum

Here's my headphone amp. It's all I need
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !!!


----------



## moodyrn

Well I thought I would show off some internal goodies that I've restored recently. Every since posting a restored amp on cl a while back I keep getting calls to do others for some reason lol.
  
  
 .
  

  


  

  

  

  
 I did own one that was partially restored by Terry Dewick. But the only boards that were recapped were the amp boards and stabilizer board. So I finally got to hear one completely restored including the power supply board, preamp/phono boards, filter board, eq board and flat amp board. And wow! After owning a couple of others that were stock, I never thought the sx1280 sounded good as it looked on paper and also given how well the build and internals looked. But a restored one sounds every bit as good as I originally hoped and then some.
  
  
 Next up is the sansui au20000. Although it has a few plug in boards, it's one very complicated beast. There are a few hidden boards, and boards even hiding behind those lol. But the work was well worth it. It gave the mcintosh rig a really good fight, but not quiet besting it. But it was really close. My wife actually preferred the looks and sound of this beautiful marvel. It's by far the best vintage intergrated I've heard besting the mcintosh ma6200 by a good bit. It's on my very short list. But man do these things fetch a good penny, so it may be a while. But now I understand why. The only thing that wasn't done on this one were the two main filter caps, but all other electrolytics were replaced.


----------



## moodyrn

keithemo said:


> There are a couple of important factors that determine the answer to that question.....


 
  
  
 So after almost 1000 pages, over 14,000 posts, and over 1,000,000 views, you just proved we all are tone deaf. Lol, priceless.


----------



## Skylab

Brother Moody, WOW!!! Those restorations are awesome!!!! Great stuff, buddy!!!!


----------



## moodyrn

Thanks Sky!


----------



## pedalhead

skylab said:


> Brother Moody, WOW!!! Those restorations are awesome!!!! Great stuff, buddy!!!!


 
  
 Absolutely.  Wow.  I wonder how much would it cost to send my Luxman R1120 over the Atlantic for a service...


----------



## KeithEmo

gixxerwimp said:


> I have to say, *KeithEmo *makes some good points (even if he is on the "dark side" of the headphone amp makers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 SPOILER.
  
 I'll let you in on a little "secret info from the dark side". Headphone amps are simple, trivial, dead silly, stupid, easy. There's nothing magical, expensive, or difficult about designing a good headphone amp. When you buy a fancy headphone amp, most of what you're paying for is the nice cabinet, and the fancy trim, and a decent power supply. The actual parts involved in building a really good headphone amp cost about $5, and you can get the schematic from the manufacturer's app notes for the chip (not only are the schematics free, but you're _ALLOWED_ to use them for commercial products - they aren't even patented).
  
 The headphone amp in most vintage receivers has about _FIFTY CENTS_ worth of parts in it. The reason it's so cheap is pretty simple; nobody cared. "Headphone amp" : "yes" - check the box. If they'd all spent $5, then they would all have been pretty good; for fifty cents, it's more pot luck; if you had a decent designer, and the parts were running good that week, it can still be excellent; if they were at the bottom of the bin, or the engineer was tired that Friday, then maybe not. The fact that some of them sound very good is simply proof that there's not that much to a headphone amp so it's not that hard to make a decent one - even if you don't put much effort into it. (And the fact that they vary widely, and many of them are somewhat colored, actually improves the odds that one will be imperfect in some way that ends up making it sound good with some particular set of cans - think of it like the electronic version of "handmade pottery".)
  
 If you want to see how hard it is to build a headphone amp, Google "BUF634" - that's the chip we use in the (quite excellent) headphone amps in our $500 DC-1 pro-DAC, which happen to be the same chips Benchmark used in the renowned headphone amp circuit they used in the DAC1 series and their separate headphone amp products. The data sheet will explain to you what circuit to use, how to wire it, what parts to use with it, and even what little mistakes to avoid while building it. It'll cost you about $10 for the parts. 
  
 Incidentally, headphones like the HD 800's are _NOT_ difficult to drive. They're actually very easy to drive since they don't draw much current. The "problem" is that they're high impedance, which means that they need less current but _MORE VOLTAGE_ than most other headphones. Since most other headphones require less voltage, and most headphone amps are designed to work well with most headphones, those amps aren't designed to provide the extra voltage that the HD 800s want, and so don't work especially well with them. This is especially true with USB-powered stuff, which tends to run on +5V or +/-5V. Therefore, it's not at all that it's "harder" to drive them, but simply that driving them well requires a design that's a tiny bit different than what it takes to drive other headphones well... and making a design that works equally well with both becomes a tiny bit more complicated. (You could build a headphone amp that works very well with the HD 800s for the same $10, but the design would be a tiny bit different.)
  
 Of course, it's a little more complicated than I described, but really not much. If you wanted to build yourself a nice headphone amp, you would need to come up with some nice metalwork, and some knobs and controls, and a nice power supply - and those are why it would end up costing you a few hundred dollars to design "a nice headphone amp".... and, since things like metalwork have huge economies of scale, those are the things that a company can do better - and cheaper - than an individual most of the time. We also have the "luxury" that we can afford to try out different wiring and PCB layouts, and then use the one that works best to build a lot of units, while it would be a problem for your average DIYer to build three or four "revs" of their project before they arrive at one that works just right.


----------



## KeithEmo

gixxerwimp said:


> Thanks to *micmacmo's post*
> 
> about his A-550, I found a service manual for his amp (which I figured would basically be the same as mine). The block diagram shows that the headphone out uses the "cheesy method" with a resistor in series. The schematic shows that it's a pair of 220Ω resistors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The short answer is "yes" - but maybe not for you.
  
 The output impedance of the headphone amplifier interacts with the impedance of the headphones themselves - which can affect the sound. If you take the same pair of headphones, and connect them to two different amps, both of which have low output impedances, and sound similar, then you should get a similar result. However, if you connect the same pair of headphones to two amps which, while they sound otherwise the same, have different output impedances, they will quite probably sound different. So high output impedance introduces another variable in the way the combination sounds. (Output impedance affects the way the amp sounds - there is only one "very low (0)" - but an infinite number of "not very lows".)
  
 The extra resistance will limit the amount of output power you get.... so it may reduce the maximum volume certain phones will play at to unacceptable levels. This will depend on the impedance of the particular phones and their sensitivity. (The resistor, by dropping the overall output level, also reduces the output noise floor - which is a benefit.) Your headphones are middle of the road; lower impedance phones would probably not play very loudly - especially if they aren't also high efficiency.
  
 You also have less damping - because damping is a matter of the relationship between the load impedance and the source impedance (your damping factor right now, with 50 ohm phones, is about 0.25 . Note that, unlike most speakers, many headphones aren't especially sensitive to this, so it may or may not be a problem for yours.
  
 Incidentally, there's something easy you can try to drastically reduce that source impedance (but it is only practical if you have more than enough output level). Right now you have an "open" output with a source impedance of 220 ohms - which is very high. You can lower this, and reduce the interaction between the output and your headphones, by turning it into a voltage divider. Your headphones claim to be 50 ohms (if I got the right model). If you put a 47 ohm resistor from each output to ground (in parallel with the headphones - _AFTER_ those 200 ohm resistors), you will "convert" the source resistor into a real voltage divider. This will reduce the output impedance from 220 ohms to about 40 ohms (the parallel combination of 47 ohms and 220 ohms). This will increase damping and reduce the interaction between the amplifier's output and the headphones - although it will also reduce your output level (it will also reduce any noise you have by an equal amount). It would only cost a few cents to try, and you can see if you notice a difference or not - and, if you do, whether you prefer it. (If you notice a difference and like it, you could try lower values, but the level reduction will get worse quickly - I picked that value based on the 50 ohm rated impedance of your phones.)
  
 If you've already noticed a noise problem, you do _NOT_ want to remove the resistor and connect then phones directly. The noise will rise dramatically and there will be a *SERIOUS* risk of damaging your headphones - and/or your ears.


----------



## moodyrn

keithemo said:


> SPOILER.
> 
> 
> 
> The headphone amp in most vintage receivers has about _FIFTY CENTS_ worth of parts in it.


 
 Wow, I just lost what little respect I had for you. It's shocking a member of trade from a company who build amps would think this. And it shows you clearly don't know what you are talking about. First of all, at least 95% of vintage receivers don't even have an headphone amp at all. The headphone out is the same as the speaker out. The only difference is a pair of  dropping resistors. That's true for both solid state and tube. But most of the tube amps and receiver differs slightly because since they are transformers coupled and don't have a common ground, the - side is grounded to the chassis. But the + is taken directly off out the output transformer. But both + and - side is still only using dropping resistors to lower the output. So get your facts straight. Why are you even posting over here. I would rather you just not post here, if you are going to post information that has no truth to it. By you being a mot, some less knowledgeable may take what you say as fact, when it's not. And that sir, is not cool. So if you are going to confuse people with inaccurate info, I would rather you go somewhere else.


----------



## moodyrn

pedalhead said:


> Absolutely.  Wow.  I wonder how much would it cost to send my Luxman R1120 over the Atlantic for a service...


 
 Lol, thanks.


----------



## Oregonian

moodyrn said:


> Wow, I just lost what little respect I had for you. It's shocking a member of trade from a company who build amps would think this. And it shows you clearly don't know what you are talking about. First of all, at least 95% of vintage receivers don't even have an headphone amp at all. The headphone out is the same as the speaker out. The only difference is a pair of  dropping resistors. That's true for both solid state and tube. But most of the tube amps and receiver differs slightly because since they are transformers coupled and don't have a common ground, the - side is grounded to the chassis. But the + is taken directly off out the output transformer. But both + and - side is still only using dropping resistors to lower the output. So get your facts straight. Why are you even posting over here. I would rather you just not post here, if you are going to post information that has no truth to it. By you being a mot, some less knowledgeable may take what you say as fact, when it's not. And that sir, is not cool. So if you are going to confuse people with inaccurate info, I would rather you go somewhere else.


 

 Amen brother.


----------



## KeithEmo

moodyrn said:


> Wow, I just lost what little respect I had for you. It's shocking a member of trade from a company who build amps would think this. And it shows you clearly don't know what you are talking about. First of all, at least 95% of vintage receivers don't even have an headphone amp at all. The headphone out is the same as the speaker out. The only difference is a pair of  dropping resistors. That's true for both solid state and tube. But most of the tube amps and receiver differs slightly because since they are transformers coupled and don't have a common ground, the - side is grounded to the chassis. But the + is taken directly off out the output transformer. But both + and - side is still only using dropping resistors to lower the output. So get your facts straight. Why are you even posting over here. I would rather you just not post here, if you are going to post information that has no truth to it. By you being a mot, some less knowledgeable may take what you say as fact, when it's not. And that sir, is not cool. So if you are going to confuse people with inaccurate info, I would rather you go somewhere else.


 
  
 Unless you think those two dropping resistors cost more than fifty cents, then I stand by my statement. They connected it to a plug that headphones fit into, and they wrote "Headphone" on it, so as far as I'm concerned, it was being "sold" as a "headphone output.
  
 If you prefer..... "On most older receivers, less than fifty cents in additional parts was spent to produce the headphone output."
 Or, instead, if you prefer..... "On most older equipment where they even bothered to actually build a separate headphone amplifier, it was done using about fifty cents worth of parts."
  
 In general, and especially if you exclude low efficiency planar headphones, the optimum design parameters for a headphone amp are so different than those for a speaker amplifier that I would be inclined to discount using a speaker amp for a headphone amp entirely... especially since, today, any headphone amp with an output impedance above 20 ohms or so would be considered to be "unusable" by most people. The reason those dropping resistors are generally included is that the speaker output is considered to be unusable directly as a headphone output - because it has too much gain and far too high a noise floor. Adding the resistors lowers the gain, and the noise floor, at the expense of an unusably high output impedance, resulting in virtually no damping of the headphone drivers, and far too much interaction with the impedance of the headphone drivers.
  
 My point, however, was more generally that little effort was expended in the old days to produce "a good quality headphone output" - which I also stand by.


----------



## moodyrn

You are continuing shooting yourself in the foot. Now you're not changing your terminology. First you specifically used the term headphone "amp" when you said it only used .50 cents total in parts. Now you have changed to headphone out. But even if we keep it at headphone "out", those resistors are not what's producing the sound we hear from the headphone out. You can completely remove those resistors and still have the same, albeit much more powerful, amp behind it. So your original theory of .50 in parts for the headphone amp(as you originally stated) is completely false.


----------



## PhoenixG

keithemo said:


> ...
> I'll let you in on a little "secret info from the dark side". Headphone amps are simple, trivial, dead silly, stupid, easy. There's nothing magical, expensive, or difficult about designing a good headphone amp. When you buy a fancy headphone amp, most of what you're paying for is the nice cabinet, and the fancy trim, and a decent power supply. The actual parts involved in building a really good headphone amp cost about $5, and you can get the schematic from the manufacturer's_* app notes for the chip*_ (not only are the schematics free, but you're _ALLOWED_ to use them for commercial products - they aren't even patented).
> 
> The headphone amp in most vintage receivers has about _FIFTY CENTS_ worth of parts in it. The reason it's so cheap is pretty simple; nobody cared. "Headphone amp" : "yes" - check the box. If they'd all spent $5, then they would all have been pretty good; for fifty cents, it's more pot luck; if you had a decent designer, and the parts were running good that week, it can still be excellent; if they were at the bottom of the bin, or the engineer was tired that Friday, then maybe not. The fact that some of them sound very good is simply proof that there's not that much to a headphone amp so it's not that hard to make a decent one - even if you don't put much effort into it. (And the fact that they vary widely, and many of them are somewhat colored, actually improves the odds that one will be imperfect in some way that ends up making it sound good with some particular set of cans - think of it like the electronic version of "handmade pottery".)
> ...


 
  
 So I think we've found the confusion here... Just about nobody on this thread is listening to IC anything. Discrete circuits with maybe a tuner or display chip are the large majority of the gear on this thread. There is no headphone amp, the main amp IS the headphone amp. 
  
 We like heavy power supplies and shielding, distortion as low as .006%, full metal and wooden chassis, and horrifically inefficient circuits that sound soooo goood. Sure the heavy knobs do add a nice luxury touch that we miss on new gear, they rarely have remotes, and heck, they aren't even close to universally good. We're here to compare notes on which ones are heavenly, good, average, and bad; which are values to buy and own and which are a waste of money; which ones look good and which ones have interesting designs. Some vintage amps got ridiculous on their designs. Some have 24 frikkin output transistors that can put out 60v RMS stereo at the above distortion, some are just beautiful to look at and sound good too, and others have unobtanium parts. For the most part, they have a diverse set of sound signatures and qualities. They are not all 'noisy', or 'warm', or anything else. They can even be brought into this century with add ons, DAC's, and re-caps, or enjoyed just as they are. This thread isn't junk electronics brought from the dumpster of audio history, and we're not ironic tone-deaf hipsters using this gear - we're audiophiles. There are several engineers and technicians on this thread, we own new gear and old gear and we felt compelled to make informed comparisons. Many of us have owned a LOT of gear and have a few legs to stand on when it comes to making comparisons. So please don't insult our intelligence with pseudo-correct but critically flawed generalizations. I encourage you - do some poking around into our world first. You might even like it.


moodyrn said:


> Wow, I just lost what little respect I had for you. It's shocking a member of trade from a company who build amps would think this. And it shows you clearly don't know what you are talking about. First of all, at least 95% of_* vintage receivers don't even have an headphone amp at all*_. The headphone out is the same as the speaker out. The only difference is a pair of  dropping resistors. That's true for both solid state and tube. But most of the tube amps and receiver differs slightly because since they are transformers coupled and don't have a common ground, the - side is grounded to the chassis. But the + is taken directly off out the output transformer. But both + and - side is still only using dropping resistors to lower the output. So get your facts straight. Why are you even posting over here. I would rather you just not post here, if you are going to post information that has no truth to it. By you being a mot, some less knowledgeable may take what you say as fact, when it's not. And that sir, is not cool. So if you are going to confuse people with inaccurate info, I would rather you go somewhere else.


 
 Thanks Moody - always a good time for a teachable moment.


----------



## moodyrn

Lol, but I don't think he's ready to leave it alone.


----------



## KeithEmo

moodyrn said:


> You are continuing shooting yourself in the foot. Now you're not changing your terminology. First you specifically used the term headphone "amp" when you said it only used .50 cents total in parts. Now you have changed to headphone out. But even if we keep it at headphone "out", those resistors are not what's producing the sound we hear from the headphone out. You can completely remove those resistors and still have the same, albeit much more powerful, amp behind it. So your original theory of .50 in parts for the headphone amp(as you originally stated) is completely false.


 
  
 I'm afraid it is you who is wrong....
  
 The output, when taken at the output of the amp itself, has certain characteristics.....
 - relatively high signal level
 - relatively high noise floor
 - relatively low output impedance (which determines the damping actor)
  
 When you add that series resistor, you make the following changes....
 - signal level is reduced (by a degree that varies depending on your headphones)
 - noise floor decreases (by a degree that varies depending on your headphones)
  
 - output impedance becomes MUCH higher.... which means that.....
 - damping factor becomes much lower
 - interactions between the output impedance and the impedance of your headphones become much more pronounced
  
 An amplifier with a 10 watt output and an output impedance of 5 ohms is far different than a "similar" amplifier with an output impedance of 200 ohms.
  
 After the resistors, you are getting the signal present at the output of the actual amplifier, MODIFIED by all the interactions between the output impedance (the resistor) and the load.


----------



## moodyrn

But how can this be when all the headphone amp is are pair .50 resistors. Lol, priceless.


----------



## moodyrn

You are now ignored.


----------



## Skylab

Keith, there are two issues here. 

One: you're overplaying your point for some reason. You're making damping factor sound like a much bigger deal than it in reality typically is. You've also made a very poor point in trying to claim that headphone outs of vintage amps were "afterthoughts" just because they are derived very simply (and in my opinion, elegantly and for the better) from the same amplifier circuit that was the raison d'être for the design of the unit in the first place. They are not headphone AMPS, they are headphone OUTS. So this is a GOOD thing, regardless of how you're trying to paint it. 

Two: you came into a thread that's made up almost entirely of people who are deeply passionate about this topic, for no apparent reason, and started crapping in it. Perhaps you feel like you have to save the world from enjoyment of music? I don't know. But you should preach your message elsewhere. You don't have any need to be in this thread, which is an enthusiast thread. As a MOT, I'm quite surprised you're doing this.


----------



## moodyrn

Very well said. Him being a member of trade doing this is what's most surprising. You hardly ever see them display this type of behavior.


----------



## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> So I think we've found the confusion here... Just about nobody on this thread is listening to IC anything. Discrete circuits with maybe a tuner or display chip are the large majority of the gear on this thread. There is no headphone amp, the main amp IS the headphone amp.
> 
> We like heavy power supplies and shielding, distortion as low as .006%, full metal and wooden chassis, and horrifically inefficient circuits that sound soooo goood. Sure the heavy knobs do add a nice luxury touch that we miss on new gear, they rarely have remotes, and heck, they aren't even close to universally good. We're here to compare notes on which ones are heavenly, good, average, and bad; which are values to buy and own and which are a waste of money; which ones look good and which ones have interesting designs. Some vintage amps got ridiculous on their designs. Some have 24 frikkin output transistors that can put out 60v RMS stereo at the above distortion, some are just beautiful to look at and sound good too, and others have unobtanium parts. For the most part, they have a diverse set of sound signatures and qualities. They are not all 'noisy', or 'warm', or anything else. They can even be brought into this century with add ons, DAC's, and re-caps, or enjoyed just as they are. This thread isn't junk electronics brought from the dumpster of audio history, and we're not ironic tone-deaf hipsters using this gear - we're audiophiles. There are several engineers and technicians on this thread, we own new gear and old gear and we felt compelled to make informed comparisons. Many of us have owned a LOT of gear and have a few legs to stand on when it comes to making comparisons. So please don't insult our intelligence with pseudo-correct but critically flawed generalizations. I encourage you - do some poking around into our world first. You might even like it.
> Thanks Moody - always a good time for a teachable moment.


 
 Well said Phoenix
  


skylab said:


> Keith, there are two issues here.
> 
> One: you're overplaying your point for some reason. You're making damping factor sound like a much bigger deal than it in reality typically is. You've also made a very poor point in trying to claim that headphone outs of vintage amps were "afterthoughts" just because they are derived very simply (and in my opinion, elegantly and for the better) from the same amplifier circuit that was the raison d'être for the design of the unit in the first place. They are not headphone AMPS, they are headphone OUTS. So this is a GOOD thing, regardless of how you're trying to paint it.
> 
> Two: you came into a thread that's made up almost entirely of people who are deeply passionate about this topic, for no apparent reason, and started crapping in it. Perhaps you feel like you have to save the world from enjoyment of music? I don't know. But you should preach your message elsewhere. You don't have any need to be in this thread, which is an enthusiast thread. As a MOT, I'm quite surprised you're doing this.


 
 Rob - very well done.
  
 Keith - really, you aren't going to get anywhere on THIS thread with your misguided attempt at................well, actually I'm not sure what exactly you're doing..............but most of us have tried dedicated headphone amps FIRST and after making the move to vintage choose to stay vintage, knowing that our ears have made the decision easy.    It's irritating talking to moodryn (an incredible resource) about stuff he is expert at - I won't even get into how much knowledge Rob aka Skylab has - look, your Emotiva amps are lovely and the choice for many "out of the speaker taps" - you've managed to alienate some really cool dudes and most of us wouldn't ever consider your amps with their $5.00 collection of parts. 
  
 This thread is a passionate enthusiast thread that really is the best thread on Head Fi BECAUSE of guys like Skylab and moodryn.  Don't go away mad................just go away.  Please.


----------



## gixxerwimp

This sh@t storm wasn't my intention at all. I just wanted to get some info about using my old amp to drive headphones.
But ...


----------



## gixxerwimp

Putting aside the other things Keith said, what do you guys think about putting a resistor in parallel with the headphone out to turn it into a voltage divider?
  
 And does this make sense? (I've forgotten most of my highs chool electronics, so help me out guys)
> "dropping the overall output level, also reduces the output noise floor"


----------



## DeadMoonKing

So, wow... I follow this thread for over a year. I hope that now that I finally post I don't get buried by this brewing incident waiting to happen...
  
 Anyhow, hi everyone! Like I mentioned, I started following this thread over a year ago while looking for information about the SA-5800 I had just purchased. First of all, let me say this thread is just amazing. Starting from Scottiebabie's love for the old Sansuis and following Skylab's journey to two 1980s plus a foray into reel to reel not to mention all the cool stuff Silent One, Oregonian, Lugbug, MattTCG and of course moodryn are into has just been tons of fun and very educational.
  
 The reason I purchased the SA-5800 in the first place was because while visiting my friend's, I noticed that even though we listen to the same music, his sounded so much more lively and full than mine. I asked him what was different and he said it was probably the amp, which at the time was some 2000's Denon thing. So, we went to Classic Audio Repair Inc. on Adams Ave. in SD and I went home with a nice, refurbished SA-5800 for around $250.
 What really vindicated the purchase for me is that I have been living at this location for over a year and running music through the aforementioned Denon and a pair of Celestion F5 speakers. Within a week of getting the SA-5800, I was playing A Trick of the Tail and my lower neighbor came up to tell me that he could hear bass -- even though I was listening to music at a very low level.
  
 Now, I'm listening to Rush's a Show of Hands through the amp and my HD 650s and it sounds just great. I know I may have paid a bit much, but I'm certainly happy with what I have!
  
 Background stories aside, I actually have some questions for you.
  
 1) I want to get my dad set up with a basic integrated. Nothing too fancy and for preferably less than $200. Any recs?
  
 2) Once I get my dad set up, I want to give him my turntable (Pioneer PL-220) and get a new one. Any recommendations on that? I want to spend less than $400 (cartridge included. If possible, maybe $500 total...) It doesn't have to be vintage necessarily, but since I seem to have a good thing going, so...
  
 3) My friend recently gave me an Emu 0404 and I can't for the life of me figure out how to hook it up to my system. In addition to the SA-5800 and PL-220 I have a SOY CDP-CE2745, which I think I hook up to the EMU via optical then the EMU to my amp...? I'm not even sure if the DAC in the EMU would even be a big enough upgrade over the SONY's internal DAC, but any thoughts would be appreciated.
  
 4) I kind of have my eyes on a Sansui for a new unit to move my SA-5800 to the bedroom to create a nice bedroom unit. Any thoughts on anything good for that? I don't need a tuner.
  
 Also, I'm located in Orange County but am willing to go as far as San Diego and up to, hmm, maybe Ventura if there's something awesome.
  
 Thanks again for all the great posts and I'm very excited to finally hop in!


----------



## Skylab

Hi DMK,

There are of course LOTS of vintage amps and turntables you can consider. I'm kind of a Pioneer guy, and so Pioneer amps to watch for that if you could score them for $200 you would be very pumped would be the SA-9100 or SA-9500. They do sometimes go for more, but both can be had on occasion at that price. The 8100 and 8500 would also be good. And if you happen to see an SX-850/950 or SX-880/980 in your price range, I would jump on those, but since receivers tend to be more popular, they maybe be a bit harder to get in your budget. 

Then for a TT, a PL-530 or PL-550 would be nice. I like the manual 550 better but they're less common. Get one of those and slap an Ortofon 2M Blue on it and you will be very happy.

As for the EMU, I'm assuming it has a line level out, so that gets connected to the AUX input of your amp. And yes, optical out from a CD player into the EMU. Whether this will result in better sound quality, only your ears can tell you. 

Enjoy!


----------



## moodyrn

Those are great recommendations from Skylab. If you're looking at another brand, I can suggest ka3500, ka5500, and ka5700 from kenwood. Also au217, 317, 417 and possibly 517 from sansui. 

Now for the sansui upgrade from what you already have, I really like the au9500, au999, and love the au20000. That one is hard to com by and really expensive. The au717 and even better 919 are also excellent sounding. I think there's an su919 on eBay now


----------



## Oregonian

I'll second the KA-5700 from moodryn - it was my first vintage piece and made my head turn.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Keith - really, you aren't going to get anywhere on THIS thread with your misguided attempt at................well, actually I'm not sure what exactly you're doing..............


 
  
 He is panicking because his business model is being threatened.


----------



## KeithEmo

moodyrn said:


> But how can this be when all the headphone amp is are pair .50 resistors. Lol, priceless.


 
  
 It's really quite simple.... and very basic electronic circuit theory.
  
 The electrical characteristics of an amplifier, and specifically how it interacts with a load, are defined in large part by its output impedance (the electrical model of an amplifier is a "perfect amplifier", with a zero ohm output impedance, in series with a resistor that is equal to its output impedance). For a typical solid state "speaker amp", the output impedance is a small fraction of an ohm. (If your amplifier has a damping factor of 100, then its output impedance is around 0.1 ohms.) If you put a large value resistor in series with that, then the output impedance becomes the sum of the two. So, if you put a 220 ohm resistor in series, the output impedance jumps from 0.02 ohms to 220.1 ohms.
  
 A 0.1 ohm output impedance won't interact much with a 50 ohm pair of headphones, which is why low output impedance is a desirable characteristic in a headphone amp. In contrast, a 220.1 ohm output impedance will interact _A LOT with a pair of 50 ohm headphones_. Depending on the impedance and operating characteristics of the headphones, it could cause frequency response variations in excess of of several dB. In addition to that, a headphone is really just a speaker; the damping the headphones will see when connected directly to that amp will be about 500; when you put a 220 ohm resistor in between them, that damping factor will drop to about 0.25 - which is a huge difference. Of course, how much both of these differences will affect the way the output _sounds_ will depend on the specific characteristics of the headphones themselves - so it will also be somewhat unpredictable unless you know a lot about the particular headphones involved.
  
 So, yes, that 0.50 cents can make a huge difference.


----------



## KeithEmo

keithemo said:


> It's really quite simple.... and very basic electronic circuit theory.
> 
> The electrical characteristics of an amplifier, and specifically how it interacts with a load, are defined in large part by its output impedance (the electrical model of an amplifier is a "perfect amplifier", with a zero ohm output impedance, in series with a resistor that is equal to its output impedance). For a typical solid state "speaker amp", the output impedance is a small fraction of an ohm. (If your amplifier has a damping factor of 100, then its output impedance is around 0.1 ohms.) If you put a large value resistor in series with that, then the output impedance becomes the sum of the two. So, if you put a 220 ohm resistor in series, the output impedance jumps from 0.02 ohms to 220.1 ohms.
> 
> ...


 
  


speakerbox said:


> He is panicking because his business model is being threatened.


 
  
 I don't _HAVE_ a business model here.
   
However, knowing the actual electronic theory behind this stuff will allow you to actually understand what's going on - and why. Therefore, I was trying to provide a little bit of actual information, and even a few suggestions about how to improve things. If you were to submit the headphone output of a vintage receiver, whose headphone output consists of the output of its main amplifier, followed by a pair of 220 ohm resistors, for review as "a modern headphone amplifier", it would receive very poor reviews - based on poor technical performance - for precisely the reasons I explained. I'm not suggesting that you won't like the way it sounds, or that you shouldn't listen to it.

  
 (I'm not sure what the business model is for "endless arguments from people who don't actually understand the technical facts they're arguing about" - but I'm all ears on that one.)


----------



## SpeakerBox

keithemo said:


> I don't _HAVE_ a business model here.
> 
> However, knowing the actual electronic theory behind this stuff will allow you to actually understand what's going on - and why. Therefore, I was trying to provide a little bit of actual information, and even a few suggestions about how to improve things. If you were to submit the headphone output of a vintage receiver, whose headphone output consists of the output of its main amplifier, followed by a pair of 220 ohm resistors, for review as "a modern headphone amplifier", it would receive very poor reviews - based on poor technical performance - for precisely the reasons I explained. I'm not suggesting that you won't like the way it sounds, or that you shouldn't listen to it.
> 
> (I'm not sure what the business model is for "endless arguments from people who don't actually understand the technical facts they're arguing about" - but I'm all ears on that one.)


 
  
 Well - I do know something about the theory being an electrical engineer and know that damping factor is most important in higher mass systems.  Most of us here realize that the mass of HPs is relatively low thereby not subject to as much momentum driven overshoot.  Additionally, we relealize that the ear is the final judge and a good vintage receiver driving from the main amplifier (which is also the HP amplifier) sounds incredible.  Do all vintage units sound good?  No - but that is why we have this forum to discern such things.


----------



## Skylab

moodyrn said:


> Those are great recommendations from Skylab. If you're looking at another brand, I can suggest ka3500, ka5500, and ka5700 from kenwood. Also au217, 317, 417 and possibly 517 from sansui.
> 
> Now for the sansui upgrade from what you already have, I really like the au9500, au999, and love the au20000. That one is hard to com by and really expensive. The au717 and even better 919 are also excellent sounding. I think there's an su919 on eBay now




Great suggestions. I was hoping others would chime in because I don't have any experience with Kenwood or Sansui. 

One other idea in addition would be a Marantz 1060.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I know this is not top of the line for Sony - but my wife picked it up for $17 at an estate sale.  Will clean it up, hit with deoxit, and replace any leaky caps and give it a listen:
  

  
 Edit: I think Moody mentioned he had one of these and they were not that great sounding.  But was not a bad price.


----------



## KeithEmo

skylab said:


> Keith, there are two issues here.
> 
> One: you're overplaying your point for some reason. You're making damping factor sound like a much bigger deal than it in reality typically is. You've also made a very poor point in trying to claim that headphone outs of vintage amps were "afterthoughts" just because they are derived very simply (and in my opinion, elegantly and for the better) from the same amplifier circuit that was the raison d'être for the design of the unit in the first place. They are not headphone AMPS, they are headphone OUTS. So this is a GOOD thing, regardless of how you're trying to paint it.
> 
> Two: you came into a thread that's made up almost entirely of people who are deeply passionate about this topic, for no apparent reason, and started crapping in it. Perhaps you feel like you have to save the world from enjoyment of music? I don't know. But you should preach your message elsewhere. You don't have any need to be in this thread, which is an enthusiast thread. As a MOT, I'm quite surprised you're doing this.


 
  
 Whether you personally agree or not, low output impedance is generally considered to be an important requirement of modern headphone amplifiers - partly because some headphones seem to sound better when they have more damping, but mostly because a high output impedance interacts unpredictably with different headphones. And, while a certain specific headphone may indeed sound very good with a specific high impedance output, it really is hit and miss.
  
 From what I can tell, some people here actually are interested in learning the theory behind how this all works. Personally, I've always found that knowledge allows me to make better decisions, and I've never been "so passionate about something that I didn't want to know how it works". I am no more "pissing in the pool" than a chemist who wanders by, tests the water, and comments that there do indeed seem to be a few traces of urine here and there - and offers to show you where they are so you can avoid them. I do apologize if the technical reality "offends enthusiast sensibilities" in some way - I must have missed the part where "enthusiasts" are somehow forbidden from learning the actual technology behind whatever they're enthusiastic about.
  
 I also completely fail to understand your differentiation between "headphone output" and "headphone amp". As I understand the situation, the whole reason "headphone amplifiers" came into existence was because many people didn't think that the "headphone outputs" that were available on their current equipment were good enough so, as with many things, they set out to design better ones. (A headphone amp is simply a way to get a really good quality headphone output - based on the assumption that a dedicated piece of equipment will do a better job than the ones built into most other equipment.)
  
 (If you specifically like the way the headphone output on a certain piece of vintage equipment sounds, you can add a buffer to it, which will let you keep that sound, but will deliver it through a low-distortion low-impedance output which will work well - and consistently - with a wide variety of headphones. This seems like an excellent project for someone who really is "passionate about vintage equipment". You can build a high-quality buffer for about $20 or $30 worth of parts, and it would make an excellent upgrade to a vintage piece of equipment.)
  
 Incidentally, I know a lot of people in the industry, going back a very long time (one of them worked with Armstrong on the original FM transmitter), and every one I've ever talked to about it has agreed that the headphone outputs on most if not all vintage equipment were a low priority feature - provided simply because it was expected. This is why, rather than being consistently good, they vary so widely. (The general consensus is that the optimum specifications for a headphone amplifier are quite a bit different than the optimum specs for a speaker amplifier.) I do apologize if this offends anyone, or somehow belittles your "passion"..... but, since it doesn't in any way alter the performance of the output, or the circuitry itself, I simply can't understand why it would matter.
  
 Therefore, if anybody has any actual technical questions, I'll be glad to answer them.....
 Otherwise, I'll leave you to your "passion".....


----------



## SpeakerBox

keithemo said:


> Incidentally, I know a lot of people in the industry, going back a very long time (one of them worked with Armstrong on the original FM transmitter), and every one I've ever talked to about it has agreed that the headphone outputs on most if not all vintage equipment were a low priority feature - provided simply because it was expected. This is why, rather than being consistently good, they vary so widely. (The general consensus is that the optimum specifications for a headphone amplifier are quite a bit different than the optimum specs for a speaker amplifier.) I do apologize if this offends anyone, or somehow belittles your "passion"..... but, since it doesn't in any way alter the performance of the output, or the circuitry itself, I simply can't understand why it would matter.


 
  
 No one here ever said that the HP out on vintage amps were top priority for the designer or that the sound quality did not vary model to model.  This thread is about digging out the ones that do sound good.  And those sound very good indeed!


----------



## Skylab

keithemo said:


> Whether you personally agree or not, low output impedance is generally considered to be an important requirement of modern headphone amplifiers - partly because some headphones seem to sound better when they have more damping, but mostly because a high output impedance interacts unpredictably with different headphones. And, while a certain specific headphone may indeed sound very good with a specific high impedance output, it really is hit and miss.
> 
> From what I can tell, some people here actually are interested in learning the theory behind how this all works. Personally, I've always found that knowledge allows me to make better decisions, and I've never been "so passionate about something that I didn't want to know how it works". I am no more "pissing in the pool" than a chemist who wanders by, tests the water, and comments that there do indeed seem to be a few traces of urine here and there - and offers to show you where they are so you can avoid them. I do apologize if the technical reality "offends enthusiast sensibilities" in some way - I must have missed the part where "enthusiasts" are somehow forbidden from learning the actual technology behind whatever they're enthusiastic about.
> 
> ...




Stand alone headphone amps absolutely did not become popular because component stereos couldn't drive headphones well. They became popular because iPods and computers couldn't drive headphones well. That's why there was no market for stand alone headphone amps in the 70's and 80's, versus the huge market it is today. 

As for the rest...maybe you mean well, but it sure doesn't come across that way. It doesn't appear that you are just providing technical "theory", sorry. You're taking slices of theory to show why you believe using vintage gear with headphones is a bad idea, for reasons I just can't fathom. You should be able to tell by the vast majority of the responses you've received that it bugs many if not most of the people who frequent this thread. If you were not a MOT, I would have already written you off as a troll several pages ago. Others already have. Is that what you want? Because that's exactly what's happening. 

So leaving this thread to people with the vintage passion would be appreciated, I think. There are LOTS of other threads on head-fi you can go and post your technical theory where I'm sure people will be happy to praise it. If you keep at it here, you're going to kill off a thread that a decent number of people were really enjoying. 

That's my last post on this subject. I had already tried hard to get us back on track...I'm hoping we can do that now.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> That's my last post on this subject. I had already tried hard to get us back on track...I'm hoping we can do that now.


 
  
 My last post on this subject also.


----------



## KeithEmo

speakerbox said:


> Well - I do know something about the theory being an electrical engineer and know that damping factor is most important in higher mass systems.  Most of us here realize that the mass of HPs is relatively low thereby not subject to as much momentum driven overshoot.  Additionally, we relealize that the ear is the final judge and a good vintage receiver driving from the main amplifier (which is also the HP amplifier) sounds incredible.  Do all vintage units sound good?  No - but that is why we have this forum to discern such things.


 
  
 I agree with most of what you said.... and I also agree that damping factor is probably not a significant issue with most headphones (although I've heard a few claims of specific cases where it seems to make a difference). However, when you get into modern headphones, especially some of the newer IEMs (some of which include multiple drivers, and their own crossover, and so a very complex impedance), it's also obvious that you can expect complex interactions with that source resistance which may produce "interesting" and "unexpected" frequency response variations. (The resistor, in combination with the load impedance, comprises a very complex frequency dependent filter.) If that happens, one would expect a given headphone or IEM to sound similar when connected to headphone outputs with similar output impedances, but to quite possibly sound very different when connected to sources with different impedances.
  
 As for my comment about design priorities. In general, a speaker amplifier is required to be able to deliver at least several watts of power to a low impedance load. This is often "at the cost" of significant distortion, frequency response imperfections, and noise. Since a headphone amplifier isn't required to deliver nearly as much power, it becomes simpler to design one that has lower distortion and flatter frequency response for less cost than a speaker amp. When designing a headphone amp, one would also normally place a very high priority on a very low noise floor, and on any noise that is present being relatively benign in character - since the noise is going to be more obvious on headphones - especially sensitive ones.
  
 Beyond the fact that the headphone outputs on some vintage units do indeed sound good, nobody has even mentioned that you also get the benefit of tone controls, loudness compensation, and all the other features that are usually present on a vintage receiver or integrated amp, but usually _NOT_ on a headphone amp. However, I would still class the hunt for good sounding vintage headphone outputs as more of a treasure hunt than a science.... and I rather prefer to optimize my treasure hunting by using as much science as practical to get me into the right neighborhood.
  
 It also seems to me that, if you're buying a vintage unit _JUST_ to use as a headphone amp, then it might well make sense to do some mods to optimize it for headphone use. One useful mod might be to simply reduce the gain of the amplifier (which might also lower the noise). Another useful (and simpler) mod might be to remove the 220 ohm series resistor and replace it with a proper voltage divider (maybe 10 ohms and 33 ohms), which would reduce the level and the noise floor, and keep the "basic sound" of the amplifier, but still maintain a relatively low output impedance.
  
 (It would seem to me to be a shame to "write off" a particular unit as "sounding bad" before finding out if it can be made a lot better simply by swapping out those 200 ohm resistors for a nice 47 ohm voltage divider - for about a buck...)


----------



## moodyrn

keithemo said:


> It's really quite simple.... and very basic electronic circuit theory.
> 
> The electrical characteristics of an amplifier, and specifically how it interacts with a load, are defined in large part by its output impedance (the electrical model of an amplifier is a "perfect amplifier", with a zero ohm output impedance, in series with a resistor that is equal to its output impedance). For a typical solid state "speaker amp", the output impedance is a small fraction of an ohm. (If your amplifier has a damping factor of 100, then its output impedance is around 0.1 ohms.) If you put a large value resistor in series with that, then the output impedance becomes the sum of the two. So, if you put a 220 ohm resistor in series, the output impedance jumps from 0.02 ohms to 220.1 ohms.
> 
> ...


 
 You know that post was meant to be sarcasm right?


----------



## moodyrn

speakerbox said:


> I know this is not top of the line for Sony - but my wife picked it up for $17 at an estate sale.  Will clean it up, hit with deoxit, and replace any leaky caps and give it a listen:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: I think Moody mentioned he had one of these and they were not that great sounding.  But was not a bad price.


 
  
 Yeah, but that was in comparison to the other gear I had at the time. So while not great, it's not bad either. And for that price, getting good sound is definitely a great deal indeed.  Also, the headphone out was plenty powerful enough the drive the hard to drive he5 I had at the time too.


----------



## KeithEmo

moodyrn said:


> You know that post was meant to be sarcasm right?


 
  
 I kind of thought so....
 but I wasn't sure if everyone who reads these posts was actually aware of how much difference a simple resistor could make


----------



## moodyrn

Well, the resistors issue has been discussed many times on here. While im not an electrical engineer myself, we are fortunate to have a couple of them here who provide tons of very valuable info to others including myself. So we have that covered.:wink_face:


----------



## SpeakerBox

moodyrn said:


> Yeah, but that was in comparison to the other gear I had at the time. So while not great, it's not bad either. And for that price, getting good sound is definitely a great deal indeed.  Also, the headphone out was plenty powerful enough the drive the hard to drive he5 I had at the time too.


 
  
 Ok Moody. Thanks for the feedback.  Much appreciated.


----------



## moodyrn

The one i had was found after rumaging through stuff my wife had stored away. It belonged to her father. There's no telling how many bad or out of spec parts it had. I would be very interested in what you think after you had gone through yours.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Will report back with my findings.


----------



## parbaked

skylab said:


> Hi DMK,
> I'm kind of a Pioneer guy, and so Pioneer amps to watch for that if you could score them for $200 you would be very pumped would be the SA-9100 or SA-9500. They do sometimes go for more, but both can be had on occasion at that price. The 8100 and 8500 would also be good. And if you happen to see an SX-850/950 or SX-880/980 in your price range, I would jump on those, but since receivers tend to be more popular, they maybe be a bit harder to get in your budget.


 
 Don't overlook the 20 WPC SA-7100 (1974).
 It's as good as the 8100 and 9100 if you don't need the extra power or more sophisticated tone control.
 Engraved lettering, metal knobs, nice switches and wood cabinet...everything you need except for meters!

  

  
 Very clean layout that's easy to work on:


----------



## PhoenixG

gixxerwimp said:


> Putting aside the other things Keith said, what do you guys think about putting a resistor in parallel with the headphone out to turn it into a voltage divider?
> 
> And does this make sense? (I've forgotten most of my highs chool electronics, so help me out guys)
> > "dropping the overall output level, also reduces the output noise floor"


 
 Changing a few resistors is certainly an easy and popular mod (and cheap!). I'd say try listening to any amp first to see how you like it 'as is' before doing surgery. Also, you might consider a speaker tap adapter. If you decide to go the resistor route, just ask me or one of the other EE's in the thread to design you an optimal voltage divider for your headphones and amp.
  


deadmoonking said:


> So, wow... I follow this thread for over a year. I hope that now that I finally post I don't get buried by this brewing incident waiting to happen...
> 
> Background stories aside, I actually have some questions for you.
> 
> ...


 
 So I'm a big fan of the early sony ES series - STR-6065, 6120, 6200, 6060, 70xx, etc. They tend to run about $50-200 and sound fantastic. They aren't usually super high powered, but they've got plenty of juice for most people. There's even one for sale somewhat near you - http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/ele/5035195201.html
 Just my $.02.


----------



## moodyrn

Here's a link to a voltage divider schematic and calculator that many have found useful in the past.
 http://www.raltron.com/cust/tools/voltage_divider.asp


----------



## CrocCap

Got this today. Sherwood S-8000 IV.  Works great, complete with tubes, and it has a headphone jack!


----------



## xevman

croccap said:


> Got this today. Sherwood S-8000 IV.  Works great, complete with tubes, and it has a headphone jack!


 
 I wasn't actually aware that Sherwood ever made any serious audio gear (the stuff they make today is god awful) but this definitely is looks proper its gorgeous let us know how it sounds please?


----------



## moodyrn

Sherwood is a very under rated brand. That receiver looks awesome. Congrats!


----------



## analogsurviver

moodyrn said:


> Sherwood is a very under rated brand. That receiver looks awesome. Congrats!


 
 Yes, Sherwood is a GREAT SOUNDING brand of receivers.
  
 Get it now - before the prices start skyrocketing - they were/are relatively very few available.


----------



## CJG888

xevman said:


> croccap said:
> 
> 
> > Got this today. Sherwood S-8000 IV.  Works great, complete with tubes, and it has a headphone jack!
> ...




Seems a shame to put the cover back on and hide all those tubes!


----------



## CJG888

The output transformers seem a decent size, too!


----------



## CJG888

Are those 6L6 on the output?


----------



## CrocCap

Sherwood had great stuff before the 80's, particularly these 60's tube amps.  Ive gone to canjam and other big headfi events, but i still have no desire to buy a modern dedicated headphone amp.  Sounds great, both with speakers and headphones.  The loudness switch makes it so i dont even need a subwoofer.
  
 The output tubes are 7868. It has many other tubes throughout, for a total of 19!


----------



## Mechans1

The brand was very different in the 50s and 60s which is it's tube era.  They were made in Chicago and were in competition with Scott and fisher.  There difference was modern sleek styling.  My father had an S5000  II.  I have several iterations of their integrated stereo  amp and tuners.  One tuner was completely overhauled by a friend and given to me as a gift.  The tuners were also quite competitive in their day.  The big receivers are relatively scarce but beautiful as this one demonstrates.  There are  still a few Sherwood devotees around as most of the better tube units command a decent price on eBay.


----------



## Oregonian

That Sherwood is gorgeous!  What is something like that worth $$$?


----------



## CJG888

I though it reminded me of classic Fisher gear...


----------



## SpeakerBox

croccap said:


> Got this today. Sherwood S-8000 IV.  Works great, complete with tubes, and it has a headphone jack!


 
  
 Awesome!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Jumping on the band wagon, this is my very tube like sounding Sherwood 8900A (60WPC) doing HP duty on my night stand.  Early 70s solid state voiced by Sherwood engineers to sound like their tube counterparts.  I absolutely love this thing:


----------



## Oregonian

Is that variable loudness?  Or variable volume................lol.


----------



## CrocCap

Sherwood called the volume control "Loudness", but there is also a loudness button/switch, which is the traditional loudness contour.


----------



## Oregonian

croccap said:


> Sherwood called the volume control "Loudness", but there is also a loudness button/switch, which is the traditional loudness contour.


 

 Thanks...............bet it sounds lovely.  My favorite "tone" control is LOUDNESS for some reason..................


----------



## Oregonian

Reminiscent of my Pioneer Spec rack system I bought a couple of years ago...............only this is a bit more pricey! 
  
 http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5024425594.html


----------



## ssrock64

Wow, that Sherwood certainly has a beautiful layout inside. I'd love to fit a clear glass top to it and watch the tubes glow.


----------



## Seamaster

Just curious, what type of speaker terminals does evyerone use with their vintage amp? What are the best options?


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> Reminiscent of my Pioneer Spec rack system I bought a couple of years ago...............only this is a bit more pricey!
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5024425594.html


 
 Holy moly! That's a lot of money, even for that setup.


----------



## DeadMoonKing

Hello everyone,
 Thank you so much for you advice and recommendations!
  
 I'm still looking at each of them, but I'll be back with questions!


----------



## Silent One

seamaster said:


> Just curious, what type of speaker terminals does evyerone use with their vintage amp? What are the best options?


 
 To date, I kept all binding posts original on my _vintage lovelies. _I may elect to upgrade the posts on the Sansui in the future with higher quality metal and perhaps a 5-way scheme.
  
 Will look at other's answers with interest.


----------



## analogsurviver

seamaster said:


> Just curious, what type of speaker terminals does evyerone use with their vintage amp? What are the best options?


 
 Quite frankly, this is the most PITA alike thing in vintage gear.
  
 The terminals on my beloved Technics gear is - ahem - subpar (if we are polite about it ).
  
 Rhey can be replaced - but you will look far and wide before you will find "something/anything" that can phisicaly fit
 the space/volume available - and it will result in VERY tight placement and not exactly user friendly changing the speaker/headphone cables. The biggest problem is in making the isolation "washer/plate" that allows for safe operation both in mechanical and electrical sense. It has to fill any void between the original cut-out on the back plate and the new binding post's contact - in order to ascertain the above requirement.  
  
 And that is strictly speaking - LOTS of work. Finding the plastic of EXACTLY the thickness required ( it has to match the thickness of the original back plate, only a bit thinner in order to allow tightly screwing the new binding post in the place ) and shaping this "washer/plate" in exact shape is no picnic.
  
 But it IS worth the trouble. Although cramped and not user friendly, it would allow for a much better contact than on the original gear.


----------



## PhoenixG

seamaster said:


> Just curious, what type of speaker terminals does evyerone use with their vintage amp? What are the best options?


 
 I like the 12awg bolt/banana type that are on some of the totl sony models. They're chrome plated bolts with a dual hole scheme to allow the speaker wire to be tightened on with a bolt or accept banana plugs. All the other terminals I've seen usually leave a bit to be desired :/


----------



## Seamaster

analogsurviver said:


> Quite frankly, this is the most PITA alike thing in vintage gear.
> 
> The terminals on my beloved Technics gear is - ahem - subpar (if we are polite about it ).
> 
> ...


 
 That is exactly my problem here. Finding or even have the option to replace the speaker terminals is like you said PITA.
  


phoenixg said:


> I like the 12awg bolt/banana type that are on some of the totl sony models. They're chrome plated bolts with a dual hole scheme to allow the speaker wire to be tightened on with a bolt or accept banana plugs. All the other terminals I've seen usually leave a bit to be desired :/


 
 Can you post a picture? Thanks.


----------



## Seamaster

silent one said:


> To date, I kept all binding posts original on my _vintage lovelies. _I may elect to upgrade the posts on the Sansui in the future with higher quality metal and perhaps a 5-way scheme.
> 
> Will look at other's answers with interest.


 

 I have a pair of Sony TA-N77ES. Their speaker terminals are soldered to a board, which is a pain to reconfigure because there is not enough room for modern terminals.


----------



## analogsurviver

seamaster said:


> That is exactly my problem here. Finding or even have the option to replace the speaker terminals is like you said PITA.
> 
> Can you post a picture? Thanks.


 
 It boils down to your local DIY electronics part shop - or internet. Chinese produce one hell of a lot of types of speaker terminals, by some clever kludging it usually is possible to somehow mate gerbil with a kangaroo ...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xspeaker+terminals.TRS0&_nkw=speaker+terminals&_sacat=0


----------



## PhoenixG

seamaster said:


> Can you post a picture? Thanks.


 

 So you can see they're a nut and bolt style with a hole in the sides for bare wire and a hole down the center for banana plugs. This is from my Sony str-6120 and it is very similar to what is still used on good new gear.


----------



## Silent One

seamaster said:


> I have a pair of Sony TA-N77ES. Their speaker terminals are soldered to a board, which is a pain to reconfigure because there is not enough room for modern terminals.


 
 A real humdinger! No doubt, I know you'll meet the challenge one way or another. Me? I'm actually considering getting 'Baby Sinister' (the Sansui G-22000) refurbished...forgot the terminology we use here in the thread for that, I'm very tired. But anyway, will simply have my guy (Terry) handle it while he's in there! 
  
 FYI - My terminals are located on either side (L/R) of the box, as opposed to being together.


----------



## Seamaster

What do you guys think of this headphone adapter made by Sony in the 70's that was designed for power amps around 100WPC?
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/11610#post_11663649


----------



## PhoenixG

I think that's pretty sweet and would probably buy it for the right price.


----------



## Mechans1

I can't quite understand it.  Why are there L and R volume knobs and why are there 2  X 1/4inch headphone jacks.  Are they both stereo or are they mono? Is the L and R knobs there to help balance the stereo coming out of one of the jacks? If anyone knows,  do tell, it sure looks like a cool addition to any Silver series 70s amp.


----------



## Terja

Looks like the volume controls were mislabeled and should have been labeled 1 and 2 for headphone 1 and 2. And yeah, Seamaster I think this is definitely treasure. You basically have a transportable headphone 'amp' that can be hooked up to various amp speaker taps. Not sure how the signal is routed before it reaches the headphone out though and how it is executed. Would definitely snag that for the 'right' price.


----------



## Seamaster

mechans1 said:


> I can't quite understand it.  Why are there L and R volume knobs and why are there 2  X 1/4inch headphone jacks.  Are they both stereo or are they mono? Is the L and R knobs there to help balance the stereo coming out of one of the jacks? If anyone knows,  do tell, it sure looks like a cool addition to any Silver series 70s amp.




I just got it and have not look into it. Both HPO are sterero. The early Sony amps did not have HPO, so Sony came up with this "fix".


----------



## KeithEmo

mechans1 said:


> I can't quite understand it.  Why are there L and R volume knobs and why are there 2  X 1/4inch headphone jacks.  Are they both stereo or are they mono? Is the L and R knobs there to help balance the stereo coming out of one of the jacks? If anyone knows,  do tell, it sure looks like a cool addition to any Silver series 70s amp.


 
  
 A lot of older equipment had separate left and right volume controls, or concentric knobs for channel volume. They are indeed intended to be used as a sort of balance control.
  
 (Even many modern volume potentiometers don't track very well between the channels near the bottom of their range,
 and this problem was much more prevalent in "the old days". By splitting the volume controls, they avoid those embarrassing situations where the stereo image sort of floats back and forth as you raise or lower the volume. Instead, it's up to you to keep the channels "in synch", and you also get the flexibility to deliberately adjust the balance... Which was also a more important feature back then when a lot of equipment wasn't as well matched in gain between channels as it usually is today anyway. )
  
 From the way they're labelled, I would assume that both jacks are stereo, and that the volume controls affect both, but it's easy enough to find out


----------



## VincentMayer

My first ever receiver, got it just a few days ago. Someone had cut the cord and was going to recycle it, I couldn't stand to see it just die without a test of life, so gave it a new cord to see if it still worked and it works wonderfully so I brought it home with me. Not as vintage as some of the nice stuff in here, but i think early 90s still qualifies. Beats the pants off my TV speakers just using some old cheapies I have had the the garage for 5 years and it has tons more power than I expected.


----------



## ssrock64

Is a QRX-5500 anything special? One of them just popped up at my local record store, and they haven't yet put a price on it.


----------



## captouch

ssrock64 said:


> Is a QRX-5500 anything special? One of them just popped up at my local record store, and they haven't yet put a price on it.




The Sansui quads are nice. I had a QR-6500 and the build quality was great and the flexibility of use was awesome. Basically, two receivers in one chassis in terms of flexibilty.

Not a ton of power, and cap coupled, so more mellow sounding, and BIG. But nice overall if you have the space and want/need the flexibilty of quad or playing two sources independently, consider it. The QRX (vs QR) also has better quad modes, but I never really used mine anyway.


----------



## ssrock64

captouch said:


> The Sansui quads are nice. I had a QR-6500 and the build quality was great and the flexibility of use was awesome. Basically, two receivers in one chassis in terms of flexibilty.
> 
> Not a ton of power, and cap coupled, so more mellow sounding, and BIG. But nice overall if you have the space and want/need the flexibilty of quad or playing two sources independently, consider it. The QRX (vs QR) also has better quad modes, but I never really used mine anyway.


 

 I've thought about getting a quad for awhile, but I don't really have the skills to restore one myself and I don't know how well this particular example has been kept up. I guess I'll have to go in again and test it out, have them open it up for me, etc. If it's in good shape on the inside, I'll take the risk on an unrestored example.


----------



## PhoenixG

vincentmayer said:


> My first ever receiver, got it just a few days ago. Someone had cut the cord and was going to recycle it, I couldn't stand to see it just die without a test of life, so gave it a new cord to see if it still worked and it works wonderfully so I brought it home with me. Not as vintage as some of the nice stuff in here, but i think early 90s still qualifies. Beats the pants off my TV speakers just using some old cheapies I have had the the garage for 5 years and it has tons more power than I expected.


 
 We usually go for a bit older, but it's always good to get something for free and be happy with it!
 Take a look around the thread and see what some of us are in to, who knows, you might get some inspiration.


----------



## Oregonian

Ever wish you had a clock handy?  I don't wear a watch any longer since I got this dang Fitbit so I'm constantly hunting for my phone to check the time. 
  
 Solution.........vintage Pioneer DT-550 digital audio timers!  Have one in my family room with the SX-1050 and now one with my Spec rack system.  Best part is paid $25 each.............and there are plenty available on eBay.  You can use them as timers as well but I haven't used them as that yet.  Silver faced goodness..........


----------



## Skylab

I have a DT-550 - LOVE it  Very cool and very cheap, yes!!!


----------



## coastal1

Any thoughts on Marantz 2223B or Pioneer SX-750?  Both listed as professionally serviced, both ~ $300.  Would use with HD650


----------



## SpeakerBox

IMHO the Pioneer would win hands down.   I had a 750 a felt it was more detailed and cleaner sounding than any of the Marantz units I have had.  Have not heard the HD650 on a SX750 or Marantz though.


----------



## Mechans1

coastal1 said:


> Any thoughts on Marantz 2223B or Pioneer SX-750?  Both listed as professionally serviced, both ~ $300.  Would use with HD650


 

 I would be tempted to buy either but I did own a Marantz Amp from that era and liked it a great deal.  The kicker is that both have been serviced.  Do you think you could get details about the servicing.  If they were both given any real restoration work I would be surprised but would be thrilled.


----------



## Oregonian

coastal1 said:


> Any thoughts on Marantz 2223B or Pioneer SX-750?  Both listed as professionally serviced, both ~ $300.  Would use with HD650


 
 I'd buy them both and see what goes in system 1 and put the other in the other room...............but that's just me (owner of 8 vintage systems - ALL in use).


----------



## ssrock64

I'd go Pioneer if you want something more detailed; the Marantz would be somewhat too warm and its presentation is a little too vague for my liking. Granted, I haven't heard this exact model, but I've heard Marantz units of similar vintage all over their lineup. While I prefer Marantz for looks, it's hard to beat a Pioneer or Sansui of the era for sound.


----------



## MIKELAP

coastal1 said:


> Any thoughts on Marantz 2223B or Pioneer SX-750?  Both listed as professionally serviced, both ~ $300.  Would use with HD650


 

 I have an unrestored  Pioneer SX-750 i use it with HD800 and Denon D-5000, its a bit noisy but i dont hear it when music plays really like the sound of it heard a Marantz 22xxalso and i like the Pioneer better more detailed paid $100.00 1year1/2 ago


----------



## SpeakerBox

Vintage Pioneer SX series.  A thing of beauty!


----------



## jnorris

Take a look on the back of the Marantz if you can.  If it says Marantz by Superscope put it down slowly and run away.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> Take a look on the back of the Marantz if you can.  If it says Marantz by Superscope put it down slowly and run away.


 
  
 I have yet to hear a Marantz I like.  Recently I recapped a 2270 - still sounded awful.


----------



## moodyrn

For the cans listed, I would easily chose the pioneer. The marantz sound is all over the place. Some models share the same house sound, others sound completely different. For example, 2325-warm to the point of being dark with rolled off highs. But can still be a good match for bright sounding cans. The 2330b-only slightly warm, much more neutral and accurate sounding. It's more dynamic and a much more technically capable sounding receiver. I've read the the 2285 and 2285B sounds completely different. So marantz are definitely hit or miss with most of them imo being miss. This is speaking primarily of their receivers. The separates and integrateds would be much more recommended by me.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I will add that in defense of the vintage Marantz gear, the 2270 was known to have harmonic distortion issues at higher power levels and other vintage Marantz stuff sounded better.  In fact I did have a 2215 (non B) that actually sounded pretty good to me.


----------



## moodyrn

Yeah, one should really do research before purchasing marantz. Some are gems, others not so much. But the vintage pioneers are pretty universal, even the ones from different lines with different sound signatures. I haven't heard a bad one yet. That also goes for sansui and kenwood based on my personal experience.

Although I will say with mcintosh, it's not so universal. Some sound excellent and others...absolutely phenomenal.


----------



## VincentMayer

If that SR-63 didn't get me in the vintage club, this one sure will, once again a rescue that someone had tossed, it still works but needs a lot of love and i am willing to spend the time on it this summer. guess i better start reading up on cleaning these up and doing cap jobs. Think i will upgrade the old lamps to LEDs as well.


----------



## moodyrn

Wow, very nice find. It should clean up nicely. The layout is pretty clean, so it shouldn't be to hard to work on.


----------



## Oregonian

Vincent, if you are in the Portland area, Audio Specialties on 102nd and Halsey is a GREAT resource for doing the work if you don't want to try it yourself.


----------



## VincentMayer

oregonian said:


> Vincent, if you are in the Portland area, Audio Specialties on 102nd and Halsey is a GREAT resource for doing the work if you don't want to try it yourself.


 
 couple hours away. I don't mind doing the work on it though, will give me something to do for a while and i love working on electronics of any age, but will save the name just incase. Thanks.
  
  
 Its amazing the things I see ppl throw away.


----------



## JamesBr

vincentmayer said:


> If that SR-63 didn't get me in the vintage club, this one sure will, once again a rescue that someone had tossed, it still works but needs a lot of love and i am willing to spend the time on it this summer. guess i better start reading up on cleaning these up and doing cap jobs. Think i will upgrade the old lamps to LEDs as well.


 
  
 did they say something about how it broke?


----------



## VincentMayer

jamesbr said:


> did they say something about how it broke?


 
 Its not broke, it works fine as it is, just some burnt out bulbs. It just wasn't taken care of that well and could use new caps.
  
  
 These things just get thrown out. Same time the Marantz came across my desk this Panasonic also showed up, but its in nice condition, so will be getting sold.


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> Vincent, if you are in the Portland area, Audio Specialties on 102nd and Halsey is a GREAT resource for doing the work if you don't want to try it yourself.


 
 I'll second that but really just wanted to say how much I enjoy that avatar, Oregonian.


----------



## Zonedin

Well I was going to post (my very first) a pic of my Sansui 7070 but apparently I don't have those privileges yet? Imagine it for now?


----------



## wotts

zonedin said:


> Well I was going to post (my very first) a pic of my Sansui 7070 but apparently I don't have those privileges yet? Imagine it for now?


 
  
 I think it takes ten posts. Looking forward to seeing it!


----------



## Silent One

Hopefully by the weekend!


----------



## Zonedin

Nine posts by the weekend, that's a tall order but let's give it a try:
(Post #2 in the countdown) - I think I can edit my posts later so here we go; here would be a picture of my matching pioneer tx/sa5500 tuner and amp separates with wood cabinets in near mint condition. In case anyone is wondering; that is not my avatar by choice. Side note; as I am a newbie on headsets, I will need headphone advice later which I will post in another thread.


----------



## MrClausewitz

Hi all,
  
 I'm a new member and I'd like to post some pics of my gear but alas I may have to wait.
  
 Anyway, I'm currently using an Akai AM-A302 to power some AKG K712 Pros and it's really quite good. My baby is my Pioneer SA-7500 but it started developing noise and crackles in both channels last week so I'm looking to get it serviced as it's better than the Akai and damn-well better than anything else I've heard.
  
 Quick question, I've been looking at the Phillips X2s and was wondering whether their 32ohm impedance would make them incompatible with these two vintage receivers?
  
 Cheers,
  
 Clause


----------



## Oregonian

mrclausewitz said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a new member and I'd like to post some pics of my gear but alas I may have to wait.
> 
> ...


 

 I have the SA-7500 MKII and the X1's sound great out of it so I'd guess the X2's would as well. 
  
 Welcome to the best thread on Head Fi!!


----------



## PhoenixG

mrclausewitz said:


> Quick question, I've been looking at the Phillips X2s and was wondering *whether their 32ohm impedance would make them incompatible with these two vintage receivers?*
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Clause


 
  
 32 Ohms happens to be the exact impedance that is standard to design headphone outputs. Most solid state amps are good with just about any impedance, or can be adjusted for just about any impedance. Yours will certainly work fine if they are a standard connection.


----------



## SirMarc

Stopped at a yard sale by my house because I saw some vintage gear on a table and picked up a sx-550 for 30 bucks. Brought it home and plugged it in and the controls seem clean, no crackles or static in the pots or switches, and it lights up. It sounds pretty good, but not as good as my dynaco sca-50. Should I bother giving it the de-oxit treatment? It will probably improve with a cleaning, but I'm guessing its inferior to the sca-50. Thoughts?


----------



## SirMarc

Sorry for the dark picture.
Build quality is awesome on this thing. It's pretty cool that these companies put this level of craftsmanship into entry level gear back then...


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Stopped at a yard sale by my house because I saw some vintage gear on a table and picked up a sx-550 for 30 bucks. Brought it home and plugged it in and the controls seem clean, no crackles or static in the pots or switches, and it lights up. It sounds pretty good, but not as good as my dynaco sca-50. Should I bother giving it the de-oxit treatment? It will probably improve with a cleaning, but I'm guessing its inferior to the sca-50. Thoughts?




The SCA-50 is likely just better sounding. The SX-550 is second from the bottom of the line of receivers that had 8 models. I have a nice SX-650 which I use in the bedroom and it's fine for background music but it's not anywhere near as good sounding as the 850, 950, 1050, or the mighty 1250. That said, for $30, it's worth it just to mess around with


----------



## SirMarc

Kind of what I was thinking lol. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## SirMarc

After letting this thing play all day, I have to say I'm impressed. I still have to give the nod to the dynaco, but this is really really making me want a higher level pioneer. I definitely dig the sound signature


----------



## Skylab

The "bargain" of that line, which has a reputation for being very good sounding, is the SX-850. It is where the parts quality took a notable stup up. The 950 can sometimes also be had at attractive prices. The 1050 and 1250 are totally awesome, but rarely cheap.


----------



## SirMarc

My dynaco is a strange beast. With my thorens turntable it sounds amazing. With my tube dac, no matter which tube I use, it sounds ok. My Asgard 2, and surprisingly the sx-550, sound better with my tube dac. With vinyl, the dynaco does both pretty dirty. Guess the phono stage in the dynaco just pairs up well with the thorens.
 Skylab, I know you had dynacos in the past, do you remember how they stacked up against the higher end pioneers with vinyl?


----------



## Skylab

Not really, because it was a VERY long time ago when I owned an SCA-50...the mid 1980's, when Dynaco wasn't considered "vintage"  And for that matter neither were the SX-xx50 receivers! But I was a Dyna guy back then. I went to college with an all-tube Dyna setup that had been modded by Frank Van Alstine...a PAS-3 and Stereo 70...man that stuff sounded SWEET.


----------



## SirMarc

That's cool. My college system, late 80's early 90's was a 70's black Philips receiver, jvc turntable and either ohm L's or C2's, don't remember. Wish I still had that Phillips, was a very nice receiver, and cool looking too. Anyway, I've read that the sca-50 uses the same phono stage as the PAS pre amps. I can see why they're respected. I just wish it had maybe 50 more watts so I could drive my dahlquist DQ-20's. Maybe I'll see if I can find a PAS 3 and a st-150.


----------



## SirMarc

Just did some research, the sca-50 has the same phono stage as a PAT-5 ss pre amp, and the amp is a scaled down st-150. Wonder if I can find some beaters for cheap and send them to Van Alstine...


----------



## ssrock64

I used to own a PAT-4 (my pains with which were chronicled in this thread a year or two ago); what is the relationship between it and the PAT-5? Was the 4 a lower-end model, or did the 5 replace it?


----------



## SirMarc

Too be honest, I'm not sure. There seems to be some love for the PAS-3, which is tube, and the PAT-5, which is solid state. Read some pretty ugly things about earlier PATs though...


----------



## ssrock64

Yeah, my 4 was really harsh sounding. It worked with super warm equipment around it, but beyond that it wasn't much more than a paperweight on my shelves.


----------



## SirMarc

Just did a bit of research, the PAT 5 is supposed to be a significant improvement over the PAT 4 according to the audio press at the time. I can tell you the phono stage in my sca-50 is stellar, and its supposed to be the same as the PAT 5


----------



## ssrock64

sirmarc said:


> Just did a bit of research, the PAT 5 is supposed to be a significant improvement over the PAT 4 according to the audio press at the time...


 

 Thanks for doing the legwork for me. From my own searching, it appears that the PAT-5 (introduced 1974) was a direct replacement for the PAT-4 (introduced 1967). I guess I'll have to get my hands on one eventually.


----------



## SirMarc

No problem. Looking for myself too. Basically want a higher power sca-50 for my vinyl rig. Looks like a PAT-5 and ST-150 if I can find them...


----------



## SirMarc

There's some magic going on between my sca-50, thorens td145 and AT 440mla. Sounds phenomenal with my hd580's, but I want to drive some big hungry speakers and 25 watts isn't nearly enough...


----------



## SirMarc

Can anyone tell me how much better the phono stage is from a pioneer sx-550 to the 850 and up? Pretty impressed with the 550, but the phono stage isn't up to par.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah the PAT-4 was the very worst of early solid state sound. The PAT-5 was definitely better, although it wasn't the finest piece Dyna ever made. Their SS power amps, especially the Stereo 150 and the massive 400 were better sounding products from that era.

The phono stage in an SX-850 will definitely be better than the one in the 550. There was only so much Pioneer could offer at the SX-550's price point.


----------



## ssrock64

I've had good experiences with Pioneer from the SX-750 on up numerically, but as has already been mentioned, the best value in today's market is probably an 850.


----------



## SirMarc

Cool, thanks guys. Probably alot easier to find than a PAT-5 and ST-150. Probably alot cheaper too. What's the lowest model pioneer integrated worth looking at? As cool as they look, I don't need a tuner


----------



## parbaked

sirmarc said:


> What's the lowest model pioneer integrated worth looking at? As cool as they look, I don't need a tuner


 


 1974 Pioneer SA-7100
  
 I much prefer the SA-7100/8100/9100 to the later integrated amps or any of the Pioneer receivers.


----------



## SirMarc

Cool, thanks


----------



## jnorris

Let me start off by stating that I am a avid fan of vintage audio equipment and own equipment from, among others, MacIntosh, Sumo, Hafler, Parasound, Advent, Pioneer, and Denon.  I also was an audio salesman from 1975 - 1981, a peak period for the manufacture of many of the components talked about in this forum.
  
 IMO, just because it was manufactured back then doesn't mean it was good.  Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz (especially Marantz by Superscope) and Sony were at best mid-fi components designed by committee and marketed to a rather un-sophiscated consumer on the basis of size, watts and the number of lights and buttons.  Sound quality was not a number one priority.  High-end audio was also at it's peak then, with massively over-engineered products that did one thing and did it well (amplify, pre-amplify, tune, etc.).  But because the un-sophisticated public couldn't hear the difference and thus couldn't rationalize the cash outlay, high end remained a niche market until it eventually evolved into home theater.
  
 So here I am, reading posts which wax poetic about hardware that we laughed at back then, and then I look at some of the Altec, Cerwin-Vega, Bose, Pioneer, and Sansui speakers that are being used and I realize that many of the failings of the hardware are being homogenized by these low-end speakers.
  
 It almost makes you wonder if these older components, when used to drive the practically non-existent load (in terms of high impedance, low current, low back-pressure) of most headphones, have actually found their niche as headphone amps.


----------



## SirMarc

I hear what you're saying,and in the late 80's and early 90's I had a pretty high end system. Spectral components, theta dac and transport, oracle turntable with spectral cart and dahquist dq-20 speakers and I loved it. Gotta tell you though,I'm having as much or more fun with my little dynaco-thorens-sennheiser headphone rig...


----------



## Silent One

jnorris said:


> Let me start off by stating that I am a avid fan of vintage audio equipment and own equipment from, among others, MacIntosh, Sumo, Hafler, Parasound, Advent, Pioneer, and Denon.  I also was an audio salesman from 1975 - 1981, a peak period for the manufacture of many of the components talked about in this forum.
> 
> IMO, just because it was manufactured back then doesn't mean it was good.  Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz (especially Marantz by Superscope) and Sony were at best mid-fi components designed by committee and marketed to a rather un-sophiscated consumer on the basis of size, watts and the number of lights and buttons.  Sound quality was not a number one priority.  High-end audio was also at it's peak then, with massively over-engineered products that did one thing and did it well (amplify, pre-amplify, tune, etc.).  But because the un-sophisticated public couldn't hear the difference and thus couldn't rationalize the cash outlay, high end remained a niche market until it eventually evolved into home theater.
> 
> ...


 






 Having owned the 1978 Sansui G-22000 already, I brought the storied HiFiMAN HE-6 in just for my _vintage lovely_ to have something new to play with.


----------



## PhoenixG

jnorris said:


> Let me start off by stating that I am a avid fan of vintage audio equipment and own equipment from, among others, MacIntosh, Sumo, Hafler, Parasound, Advent, Pioneer, and Denon.  I also was an audio salesman from 1975 - 1981, a peak period for the manufacture of many of the components talked about in this forum.
> 
> IMO, just because it was manufactured back then doesn't mean it was good.  Pioneer, Kenwood, Marantz (especially Marantz by Superscope) and Sony were at best mid-fi components designed by committee and marketed to a rather un-sophiscated consumer on the basis of size, watts and the number of lights and buttons.  Sound quality was not a number one priority.  High-end audio was also at it's peak then, with massively over-engineered products that did one thing and did it well (amplify, pre-amplify, tune, etc.).  But because the un-sophisticated public couldn't hear the difference and thus couldn't rationalize the cash outlay, high end remained a niche market until it eventually evolved into home theater.
> 
> ...


 
 A lot of what we do is give some things a second chance listen. Some things really have the ability to shine with a good set of headphones or speakers. To be fair though, I have managed to find a set of my dream speakers (mcintosh xr-290's), and they are painfully revealing of flaws upstream.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Most of the vintage gear that has come through my home, has quickly gone back out.  For me the fun has been identifying the true vintage gems.  So far only my completely restored Pioneer SX1250 and Sherwood 8900A have remained.  The hunt is part of the fun.


----------



## pedalhead

Incidentally, there's a lovely looking SX1250 on ebay UK at the moment. Not so lovely price, but obviously these are well sought after these days. I'd love to hear one up against my Luxman R1120.  Based purely on what I've read, I'd expect the Pioneer to be superior, but I wonder by how much.
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Vintage-1970s-PIONEER-SX-1250-TOTL-Monster-Stereo-Receiver-160wpc-Amp-/271909742583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4f1567f7


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Most of the vintage gear that has come through my home, has quickly gone back out.  For me the fun has been identifying the true vintage gems.  So far only my completely restored Pioneer SX1250 and Sherwood 8900A have remained.  The hunt is part of the fun.




Same here. A lot of my early vintage purchases are gone. What I kept is the TOTL stuff, which I had restored, and which unquestionably compares very favorably to high end gear that one could buy today.


----------



## SirMarc

What do you guys think of a Kenwood kr-7600? Saw one on the local CL. Looks really nice


----------



## SirMarc

Googled it and looked at some high res pictures of it. Damn, that might be the best looking vintage receiver I've seen. Think I'll go check it out this weekend. Input still welcome. Thanks


----------



## SirMarc

Set up a meeting for this weekend, he has some nice speakers to test the unit with. I'll also bring my headphones. Nobody with experience with this receiver?


----------



## jnorris

pedalhead said:


> Incidentally, there's a lovely looking SX1250 on ebay UK at the moment. Not so lovely price, but obviously these are well sought after these days. I'd love to hear one up against my Luxman R1120.  Based purely on what I've read, I'd expect the Pioneer to be superior, but I wonder by how much.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Vintage-1970s-PIONEER-SX-1250-TOTL-Monster-Stereo-Receiver-160wpc-Amp-/271909742583?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4f1567f7


 
  
  
 Yeah, I'm not thinking the Pioneer will be better than the Luxman - not in any way, shape or form.  Save your money.


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> What do you guys think of a Kenwood kr-7600? Saw one on the local CL. Looks really nice


 

 I used to sell that unit as well as the KR-9600 and the Pioneer monster receivers.  Kenwoods of that vintage were nice, solid receivers that looked and felt excellent, and certainly sounded OK, but were undistinguished among the rest of the Japanese product of the time.  Listen to it, see if you like it, and if you do, don't pay too much for it.  A lot of CL'ers and eBay'ers think nothing of trying to get exorbitant prices for stuff that qualifies as "Vintage", which, by the way refers to its age, not its quality.


----------



## pedalhead

jnorris said:


> Yeah, I'm not thinking the Pioneer will be better than the Luxman - not in any way, shape or form.  Save your money.


 
  
 Oh, I like you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually, I'm not brave enough to put down that kind of coin on a vintage rig, although I will be budgeting for a similarly priced (probably new) power amp for my speaker system sometime in the next six months.  Assuming of course that whatever power amps I demo actually sound better than the Luxman 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> What do you guys think of a Kenwood kr-7600? Saw one on the local CL. Looks really nice


 
 I had a kr-9600 that I got with my dad from a yard sale for $30. Nice looking with the walnut case, good feel. Great FM reception. I really liked how the FM dial looks. I was not blown away by the sound quality, though I had JBL l-100's hooked up to it, which really made it too warm. The l-100's are warm themselves, so no surprise there. With better speakers or phones, I think it would sound really nice, but it's a preference thing at that point. It has plenty of power for any application. Don't switch the bulbs out for LED's, it really doesn't like it (I think it uses the bulbs' resistance as part of another circuit). I replaced it with a SX-1980 that I've had since.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> Yeah, I'm not thinking the Pioneer will be better than the Luxman - not in any way, shape or form.  Save your money.


 
  
 You will probably think I am nuts for saying that it really depends on the state of restoration/disrepair that either receiver is in.  If the pioneer and luxman were both brand new I think the luxman would probably edge out the pioneer (better parts).  But, as Skylab has rightly pointed out many times it is absolutely stunning what a rebuild can do to one of these old beasts.   When I first got my 1250 (paid $335) I did not like it at all - dull and lifeless.  Even so I decided to do a complete restore (glutton for punishment I guess).  All electrolytic caps replaced with audio grade nichicon and film where possible, all boards re-soldered with WBT silver, all PCB contacts cleaned.  Relays replaced, and everything bathed in DeoxIt.  It is not the same receiver now - the sound is astonishingly good.  Bloom, micro detail, solid imaging, and power to boot. Awesome!  In addition it is not like I don't know what good sound should be like.  My high end systems have had KEF, Quad, SAE, Amber, Proceed, and now Jeff Rowland.  Does the 1250 sound like my Rowland amps - no.  But it is honestly one of the most enjoyable listening experiences I have ever had.  I sometimes wonder if I had to downsize and had room for one system - would I keep the Rowlands or the 1250? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Disclaimer: I am almost 60 and maybe I should have my ears checked.  They are not quite what they were.


----------



## jnorris

I'm over 60 (how did _that_ happen?) and I know my hearing fades above 9-10K or so, but I can still hear differences between amps.  I'm sure the Pioneer did sound great after the re-do, but due to the quality of Lux's components, it may not need that kind of repair.  If it did however, and you showed it the same love as the Pioneer, the Luxman would sound better.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I'm over 60 (how did _that_ happen?) and I know my hearing fades above 9-10K or so, but I can still hear differences between amps.  I'm sure the Pioneer did sound great after the re-do, but due to the quality of Lux's components, it may not need that kind of repair.  If it did however, and you showed it the same love as the Pioneer, the Luxman would sound better.


 
  
 It would certainly be an interesting comparison.


----------



## pedalhead

Shame you guys are on the other side of the pond!  Any UK 1250 owners lurking? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've been thinking about it for a while, but this discussion has now prompted me to start the ball rolling on getting the R1120 some proper (professional) love.  I'm an electronics dummy so wouldn't dream of trying anything beyond a deoxit myself, but I'm going to get it properly checked out by an ex-BBC engineer with a view to getting it to an "as good as new" state. I've actually budgeted for a new power amp for my main system, but I wonder if it might be more sensible to divert a chunk of this into getting the Luxman properly sorted.  If it's going to be in my main system with a nice new pair of Sonus Fabers then it needs to be in tip top shape and properly reliable.
  
 Do you guys think this is realistic? I'm not really up on amplifiers & I wonder if the Luxman will realistically compete with ~£1000 modern power amps.  Any thoughts?  Cheers!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am not sure that the luxman or the pioneer (restored or not) would do the Sonus speakers justice - I might be more apt to get the new power amp.


----------



## pedalhead

Hmm bummer.  They're only low end Sonus Fabers (Venere 1.5), although still not exactly what I'd call "cheap"! Perhaps I'll get the Luxman sorted anyway and wait a bit longer to save up for the power amp...then take the Luxman with me when I demo a new amp.  Would make for an interesting comparison.


----------



## Mechans1

jnorris said:


> Yeah, I'm not thinking the Pioneer will be better than the Luxman - not in any way, shape or form.  Save your money.


 

 I wouldn't be so sure.  Luxman was considered a very luxurious line at the time while pioneer was a mainstream product, with a very good reputation.  Luxman was always somewhat more expensive as I remember it. 
 The product I owned at that time was a Kenwood integrated amp which was also nothing outstanding but I used it for many many years, "Dual Mono DC" with 60 WPC.     The only interesting thing about kenwood was the very briefly extant Trio Co.  which were the best Kenwood engineers who the morphed from Trio into Accuphase..


----------



## MIKELAP

Back in 1977 got myself a Quad 405 amp with preamp and tuner paid $1000.00 back then, how would the Quad compare to the Pioneer of that era . also had a Thorens TD160 and a pair of JBL L100 for a total of  $3000.00 lots of money back then .


----------



## buson160man

skylab said:


> Not really, because it was a VERY long time ago when I owned an SCA-50...the mid 1980's, when Dynaco wasn't considered "vintage"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Yeah those old dynas really sound great when they are updated with modern parts. They had decent iron thats for sure . I use to have a modded pas 3 van alstine as well . Later I had a dyna sca 35 integrated that was rebuilt as well . I used to love taking it over to peoples houses and trashing a lot of receivers with it. It was a honey. I used to call it the pocket battleship it sure sounded good . It hit way over its modest 17 1/2  watt per channel rating .
 Those were fun days back in the early sevent1ies.


----------



## jnorris

mechans1 said:


> I wouldn't be so sure.  Luxman was considered a very luxurious line at the time while pioneer was a mainstream product, with a very good reputation.  Luxman was always somewhat more expensive as I remember it.
> The product I owned at that time was a Kenwood integrated amp which was also nothing outstanding but I used it for many many years, "Dual Mono DC" with 60 WPC.     The only interesting thing about kenwood was the very briefly extant Trio Co.  which were the best Kenwood engineers who the morphed from Trio into Accuphase..



 


Luxman products had a tube-like, pristine quality to their sound, whether engineered or not, that imparted a richness to the music. The Pioneers were more rough around the edges. Kenwoods were more in the middle. Both the Pioneers and the Kenwood did the job, but with little distinction.

Kenwood was actually the American name of the Trio Corporation which had been around for a long time prior to coming here. They branched out into Accuphase in response to other companies creating "high end" lines like Technics by Panasonic (like Toyota and Lexus). It was more of a means of establishing credibility than anything else - they knew they weren't going to sell enough of the stuff to dent their bottom line.


----------



## jnorris

buson160man said:


> Yeah those old dynas really sound great when they are updated with modern parts. They had decent iron thats for sure . I use to have a modded pas 3 van alstine as well . Later I had a dyna sca 35 integrated that was rebuilt as well . I used to love taking it over to peoples houses and trashing a lot of receivers with it. It was a honey. I used to call it the pocket battleship it sure sounded good . It hit way over its modest 17 1/2  watt per channel rating .
> Those were fun days back in the early sevent1ies.



 


A piece of Van Alstine modded gear came up on Craigslist here last year. Seemed like a good deal, but I needed more information so I emailed the Van Alstine company for info. The reply I got was that the stuff was good, but once I purchased it I should send it to them for a complete gut and rebuild for $800. I passed on it. The email was from Frank Van Alstine himself.


----------



## SirMarc

Can anyone explain why my dynaco sca-50 sounds incredibly good with vinyl and so-so with every thing else? Did an experiment last night with porcupine tree's lightbulb sun. I have the album on vinyl and a DVD audio rip at 24/48. Through my tube dac into my Asgard 2 it sounds excellent, almost vinyl-like with my nos 1966 amperex 7308 tube. Plug the dac into the dynaco, and even with swapping in less warm tubes, its like a very slight fog is over the music. Doesn't sound bad by any means, but definitely inferior to the Asgard 2. Now, switch the dynaco to phono and spin the album and magic happens. I even went tape out to the Asgard 2 and the dynaco still sounds better. Any thoughts? Very strange...


----------



## Skylab

That Dyna has a very fine phono stage, and the strength of that is compensating for other relative deficiencies, that's my guess.


----------



## SirMarc

Wish the dyna had pre outs, then I'd just get an amp. Going to check out the kenwwod tomorrow, maybe I'll get lucky. The guys at AK seem to like this receiver, supposedly the engineers who worked on this thing were some of the trio guys who left to start accuphase


----------



## headphones1999

hi all
  
 right now i have the KA-405 wich is really nice and i like the sound, but im looking for something with less bass (really important), and with better sound, the 405 got awesome headphones output so im looking for amp with awesome headphones output as well 
  
 Any amp from any company is good for me, as long that it has less bass then my KA405 and have really good headphones output. (probably for the HE560\LCD2)
 BTW if there is more natural vinatge amp thats really good 2.
  
 thought on getting the Kenwood KR-9400.. how is this amp vs. the KA9100?
  
 edit: i have bright natural sound speakers, thats why im looking for more natural sound amp.


----------



## SirMarc

Bought the Kenwood. This thing is mint, all bulbs are good, no major scratches and no static on any pots or switches. Sounds really good too. Can't believe how big it is. It has to be six inches wider than standard equipment.


----------



## SirMarc

Picture doesn't do it justice. The blue is softer, more like a turquoise blue. It's incredibly cool looking. Gotta say, very neutral sounding. Less warm than I suspected, but in a good way. Sounds excellent with my tube dac, sounds very good with my turntable, but not sure I like it better than the dynaco yet. Close though...


----------



## PhoenixG

Congrats man. What I missed most about mine was the FM dial. Really nice to look at. Soothing.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks, its one of the better looking receivers I've seen...


----------



## headphones1999

headphones1999 said:


> hi all
> 
> right now i have the KA-405 wich is really nice and i like the sound, but im looking for something with less bass (really important), and with better sound, the 405 got awesome headphones output so im looking for amp with awesome headphones output as well
> 
> ...


 
 anyone?


----------



## SirMarc

No problem driving the dahlquist dq20's, nice! Unfortunately, I think the dynaco may have a better phono stage, or at least better synergy with my cart/turntable. I'll keep goofing around with it.


----------



## SirMarc

headphones1999 said:


> anyone?



Just picked up a kr-7600. Very neutral. Not bass heavy at all...


----------



## TomNC

Like many vintage receivers, the KR-9400 has EQ adjustments for bass, mids, and trebles. In my experience, they are quite effective. It is most likely that you can dial down the bass with the 9400 to your liking.


----------



## headphones1999

how is the headphones output of this amp?


and as i said headphones output is really important for me...


----------



## Silent One

sirmarc said:


> Bought the Kenwood. This thing is mint, all bulbs are good, no major scratches and no static on any pots or switches. Sounds really good too. Can't believe how big it is. It has to be six inches wider than standard equipment.


 





 Was delighted to see you stop and give 'Kenny' a ride rather than drive past and keep wondering.


----------



## SirMarc

Wow, one comment? OK, 2 now lol.


----------



## SirMarc

I'm gonna call her Kendra lol, rather give Kendra a ride.


----------



## SirMarc

I'm actually listening to a weird local station. Forgot how fun it could be...


----------



## Silent One

sirmarc said:


> I'm gonna call her Kendra lol, rather give Kendra a ride.


----------



## frahengeo

Marc

Looks good!! Kenwoods have been flying under the radar compare to other receivers of the same period, so good deals can be had.

Sansui & pioneers are extra wide as well as extra deep. I had to build separate shelves to house these beasts.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks, digging it so far. It really is immense. Its almost 21 inches wide and 14 and a half inches deep. To put it in perspective, my denon 7.1 channel receiver is 17.25 inches wide...


----------



## Silent One

Limited shelf space:
  
 My Sansui is 25+ inches in width. A few previous components had to give it up! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 (and 21.6 inches deep when connected)


----------



## Amish

I've just joined you guys tonight. Bought a Pioneer TX-8100 & Pioneer SA-8100. Both units are in really good cosmetic shape and have been cleaned and lubed inside, perfect working order according to the seller.
  
 Paid more than I should have but I have been trying to purchase these two components for a long time now and I never win the auctions because there is always someone else willing to spend more money. I can't tell you how many times I have tried to nab these and failed.
 Well today I decided that I'm going to win these without fail and just spend the money I needed to make it happen.
  
  
 Let me say this though, (if anyone cares) I was born in 1972. Not sure when I saw the 8100's for the first time but I was a little kid and my Dad owned these very same models. I just remember growing up in the 70's and watching my Dad sit in front of these each night with his headphones on just listening to records and his reel to reels. I remember the glowing lights, the dials and switches and just how very cool it all was. To me it was like a space ship cockpit. lol Funny I know but heck I was just a kid. He owned these two pieces up until the early 80's before he sold or traded them and brought home some Sansui equipment.
  
 So for me it's like stepping back in the past, being that little kid looking up at my Dad and being amazed by his stereo equipment. I've wanted these two pieces for a long time now and I cannot wait to hook them up. Took me a long time but I got them in the end. Hope they sound as good as I remember! I doubt I'll be disappointed if they don't. I bet they will be better than most of the stuff I've owned over the years though. Doubt they will take the place of my Bryston but we'll see.


----------



## Silent One

@ Amish
  
 Congrats on bringing home a bit of personal nostalgia.


----------



## SirMarc

Amish, nice man! 
 Silent, 25 inches wide? Holy crap! That's crazy man. Where does it fit?


----------



## Silent One

sirmarc said:


> Amish, nice man!
> Silent, 25 inches wide? Holy crap! That's crazy man. Where does it fit?





In the past year I've pretty much resigned to placing it on a flat bed dolly. This helps me roll it in and out of place to save space.


----------



## SirMarc

Are you serious? I'm gonna play with mine later. It looks like if I take the sides off it may fit in my rack. For now its sitting on my coffee table in the man cave


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful Pioneer units, Amish - congrats. Those are excellent sounding too I'm sure - many people's favorite Pioneer line.


----------



## PhoenixG

I know many of you guys don't usually go for speakers, but I thought this pair was worth a look if someone is looking for a nice vintage-ish pair. This isn't my listing and I'm completely unaffiliated. 
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-MCINTOSH-XR1051-47-STANDING-UNIFORM-FIELD-LOUDSPEAKERS-SPEAKERS-SYSTEM-/331588822498?
  
 I have a number of this pair's smaller and bigger brother's and like the sound immensely. I know some of you guys also have the same (or almost the same) pair and like them.
  
 To apologize in advance if this post seems too spammy, here are some pictures of my old Kenwood KR-9600. I hope you find the meters as soothing as I do.

 And here's the little brother and big brother of those speakers.


----------



## SirMarc

Yeah man, you should have kept that receiver. I'm loving the lights on my KR-7600. I'm amazed at the shape of this thing. It looks brand new. The guy I bought it from went to town on this thing. No dust or dirt inside and out. Glad I got it. Sounds really good with my tube dac too. Definitely better than my Asgard 2. Think my dynaco has a slightly better phono stage though. That's a bit of a bummer. Wonder if I could go tape out of the dynaco into the auxiliary jack's on the Kenwood. Hmm...


----------



## wotts

phoenixg said:


> I know many of you guys don't usually go for speakers, but I thought this pair was worth a look if someone is looking for a nice vintage-ish pair. This isn't my listing and I'm completely unaffiliated.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-MCINTOSH-XR1051-47-STANDING-UNIFORM-FIELD-LOUDSPEAKERS-SPEAKERS-SYSTEM-/331588822498?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I have the 1051s and love them. I'd buy that pair if I had the extra scratch.


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> Yeah man, you should have kept that receiver. I'm loving the lights on my KR-7600. I'm amazed at the shape of this thing. It looks brand new. The guy I bought it from went to town on this thing. No dust or dirt inside and out. Glad I got it. Sounds really good with my tube dac too. Definitely better than my Asgard 2. Think my dynaco has a slightly better phono stage though. That's a bit of a bummer. Wonder if I could go tape out of the dynaco into the auxiliary jack's on the Kenwood. Hmm...


 
 It's all good. I've been on a great journey and one good thing replaces another. I'm happy with my Mc-equipment, my sony str-6120's, and the sx-1980. I think every piece of the audio chain should have to fight for its place in my rig, and I've found the most difference is between speakers over amps. Now I'm happy with my speakers and happy with my amplification (though that doesn't mean I won't try something 'new'). That's why I put up the listing for the guy selling those speakers. I think y'all'd like them if you happen to get them for the $350 or so that they're at now.


----------



## SirMarc

I might be able to get my hands on some old McIntosh gear. I know a guy who's friends with an old audio engineer who has a wall of old McIntosh gear. He's supposed to let me know if the guy is interested in selling anything. My friend said he almost crapped his pants when he saw them in his warehouse. Cross your fingers for me...


----------



## VincentMayer

Been working on my 2245 and lucky I got some donated parts from something else.
  

  
  
 This poor 2216 was dropped or something because the whole back right corner was smashed in, but it still had its lamps and feet so I stole them for my working 2245.
  
  
  

  
  
 still ended up being 1 lamp short.... but ohh well, I'll find the missing one sooner or later. Also replaced the old taped up cord, and cleaned as best I could. Couldnt find de-oxit anywhere locally so settled for some radioshack cleaner/lubricant. Volume pot is still a little scratchy and will need more cleaning and probably caps, but I have enjoyed working on this unit and reading about fixing up these old receivers.


----------



## SirMarc

I don't know if I'm just getting used to it, or the phono stage is re-breaking in, but I'm starting to enjoy vinyl on the Kenwood kr-7600.


----------



## SirMarc

Off topic, but if any of you are even a little bit of a Jethro Tull fan, you have to pick up the Steven Wilson remixes of Aqualung and Benefit on vinyl. Listening to Benefit now and all I can say is wow...


----------



## frahengeo

Congrats on the TX/SA-8100 combo, and thanks for sharing the nice little story.  I too associate stereo equipment with my Dad.
  
 Enjoy!!


----------



## Amish

@frahengeo Thanks man!
  
  
  
 I have a question for anyone able to answer. I noticed on the back of the TX-8100 tuner there are two outputs, (Variable and fixed).
  
 I know what they do, (variable would allow me to control the output volume of the tuner with it's dial and the fixed would be a fixed set output signal).
  
 My question is which one should be used to the tuner input of the SA-8100 amp? Can either be used?


----------



## analogsurviver

amish said:


> @frahengeo Thanks man!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am not familiar with the TX-8100. 
  
 Either can be used. They may or may not be identical - aside the potentiometer in the variable one, which can be used to match the output in loudness with your other source(s) in such a way that on "normal" music programme there are no radical changes in loudness when switching from say turntable to FM ( or in modern day, say from a CD or DAC ).
  
 I have Technics ST-9030 tuner from their Pro series. This one DOES deviate from "loudness only" difference between direct and variable outputs. I forgot which is which, but IIRC direct one omits the sharp 19 kHz pilot tone filter - and as a consequence, at a price of slight audibility of the 19 kHz pilot tone (to the people young enough to still be able to hear pure sine wave of 19 kHz), achieves FAR better soundtage than most FM tuners, regardless of price. If the both outputs are set so to match the levels at difference below 0.1 dB, and AB comparing  them, there is clearly audible difference which one gives better sound. Instantly so. I would have to re-check the specs, but extension and flatness of the treble in this tuner when used without the sharp filter FAR exceeds specs even for FM transmitters. 
  
 The only tuner I have heard to beat the ST-9030 in this capability was Tandberg TPT 3001A. Most other "super tuners, above ST-9030 level" simply can not match ST-9030 for the soundstage if and when ST-9030 is used without the sharp 19kHz pilot tone filter ( required back in the day primarily because of analog recorders that go totally berserk if FM out is not sufficiently filtered out for the pilot tone - today's digital recorders do not have this limitation any more and I always record from FM to DSD recorders without the filter ).


----------



## Amish

@analogsurviver
  
 Thanks. I did some more digging last night and discovered that either could be used. The only reason I even asked is because while surfing the web yesterday I saw a post where someone was saying not to use the fixed as it could damage the amp. Seems odd to me that would be the case but it made me start thinking so I posed the question here.
  
  
 Anyways thanks again.


----------



## KeithEmo

analogsurviver said:


> I am not familiar with the TX-8100.
> 
> Either can be used. They may or may not be identical - aside the potentiometer in the variable one, which can be used to match the output in loudness with your other source(s) in such a way that on "normal" music programme there are no radical changes in loudness when switching from say turntable to FM ( or in modern day, say from a CD or DAC ).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would be a little more careful about that 19 kHz pilot tone.
  
 If you have tweeters that really deliver up to 20 kHz, then it will actually be audible to quite a few people, and will also be very unpleasant to pets (dogs and cats can hear 19 kHz). It will also be quite unpleasant to those people who can hear it, and may result in headaches and other symptoms of "listener fatigue" in some of those who don't hear it as a distinct "sound".
  
 The 19 kHz carrier is present on all stereo FM broadcasts (it's where the stereo information resides). Since it is technically inside the "audio band", most modern equipment should indeed "handle it" with few if any serious problems. However, you should also be aware that we're talking about a continuous 19 kHz tone, which carries the possibility of damaging your tweeters, especially if you happen to turn up the treble (which usually applies a boost that increases at very high frequencies - like 19 kHz).
  
 Since design of sharp filters was somewhat difficult "back in the old days", it's not at all surprising that the filter might produce clearly audible "side effects" in the form of reduced treble response inside the audio band.


----------



## analogsurviver

keithemo said:


> I would be a little more careful about that 19 kHz pilot tone.
> 
> If you have tweeters that really deliver up to 20 kHz, then it will actually be audible to quite a few people, and will also be very unpleasant to pets (dogs and cats can hear 19 kHz). It will also be quite unpleasant to those people who can hear it, and may result in headaches and other symptoms of "listener fatigue" in some of those who don't hear it as a distinct "sound".
> 
> ...


 
 No worries - Technics did know their stuff, as well as anyone else. I might decide to post a FFT spectrum for the same broadcast in FM stereo with or without the filter - that 19 kHz pilot tone is, even in "unfiltered mode", quite some dB down in level. The only thing that really do go berserk in unfiltered mode are analog tape recorders. And these usually sport an MPX (19 kHz stereo pilot tone) filter onboard - just in case. I have zero trouble recording off ST-9030 trough unfiltered output into analog cassette deck with MPX filter on.
  
 For those that do not agree with this approach, Technics did provide conventional output.
  
 There is no such thing as a filter ANYWHERE NEAR the audible range ( CD brickwall is the first thing that springs to mind )  that is audibly transparent. Not in real life anyway. Filters are getting ever better - but having to filter just above (CD) or even within (FM stereo) the officially accepted audible range limit of 20 kHz is simply to close not to cause audible trouble. It is much easier to obtain well sounding result by having larger bandwidth system which requires less severe and thus easier to implement filtering.


----------



## KeithEmo

analogsurviver said:


> No worries - Technics did know their stuff, as well as anyone else. I might decide to post a FFT spectrum for the same broadcast in FM stereo with or without the filter - that 19 kHz pilot tone is, even in "unfiltered mode", quite some dB down in level. The only thing that really do go berserk in unfiltered mode are analog tape recorders. And these usually sport an MPX (19 kHz stereo pilot tone) filter onboard - just in case. I have zero trouble recording off ST-9030 trough unfiltered output into analog cassette deck with MPX filter on.
> 
> For those that do not agree with this approach, Technics did provide conventional output.
> 
> There is no such thing as a filter ANYWHERE NEAR the audible range ( CD brickwall is the first thing that springs to mind )  that is audibly transparent. Not in real life anyway. Filters are getting ever better - but having to filter just above (CD) or even within (FM stereo) the officially accepted audible range limit of 20 kHz is simply to close not to cause audible trouble. It is much easier to obtain well sounding result by having larger bandwidth system which requires less severe and thus easier to implement filtering.


 
  
 Forget about "getting close to the audible range" - the original FM spec defines "the main band" as "extending from 23 Hz to 15 kHz". So, assuming that a broadcaster follows the standard, they aren't supposed to be broadcasting any actual audio above 15 kHz anyway (although I suspect that many sort of ignore that restriction 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). 
  
 Personally, I'm not a big fan of FM (because they never seem to be playing what I want), but I've also heard that many older tuners, including some that otherwise sound very good,  "have trouble" with many modern FM stations because several new digital subcarriers have been added to the overall mix. (And many older tuners, which used wider station-selectivity filters to enable them to achieve better audio performance, now find that some of these new sidebands occasionally leak through as "birdies" and other annoying noises.)


----------



## analogsurviver

keithemo said:


> Forget about "getting close to the audible range" - the original FM spec defines "the main band" as "extending from 23 Hz to 15 kHz". So, assuming that a broadcaster follows the standard, they aren't supposed to be broadcasting any actual audio above 15 kHz anyway (although I suspect that many sort of ignore that restriction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am aware of everything mentioned - and ever more digital is creeping in FM sterep broadcasting, ever worse it sounds. OK for the "average" user (who wants a "clean" signal ), catastrophe for high quality audio. 
  
 There are, fortunately, few stations within my reach that are OK both musically and technically. But on average, FM has unfortunately become crap best avoided. Under most favourable conditions, great live FM stereo broadcast is the best sound available out of live or studio. And it is amusing and funny, that out of all available FM stations, the best SQ has the world famous Radio Student
  
 http://radiostudent.si/
  
 https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_%C5%A0tudent_Ljubljana
  
 - because they always receive phased out equipment from our national radio and most of their gear is as old/ analog as you can still find in operation today.


----------



## Mechans1

Can you tell us where in a general way where you get these stations.  I live in the New York metropolan area in a suburb . The last all day classical station for a huge population ( many millions of people) had to share 1/2of their hours with an all jazz  station.  Can you believe how much the average listener's taste has changed!?  I don't listen to classical all that much, fortuneately there is a university based  station that plays classical all day and a couple of Jazz hours at night  If I am in the mood for radio classical,  that is where I have to go.  I suppose that Cable like subscription they can access virtually anything they want  You can be quite sure all of the music it mixed digitally .


----------



## analogsurviver

mechans1 said:


> Can you tell us where in a general way where you get these stations.  I live in the New York metropolan area in a suburb . The last all day classical station for a huge populat had to share 1/2of their hours with an all jazz  station.  Can you believe how much the average listener's taste has changed!  I don't listen to classical all that much, fortuneately there is a university based  station that plays classical all day and a couple of Jazz hours at night  If I am in the mood for that is where I have to go.  I suppose that Cable like subscription they can access virtually anything they want  You can be quite sure all of the music it mixed digitally .


 
 FM is intended for not beyond horizon distances ( although in a pinch *can* work slightly beyond that limitation ). "On the sunny side of the Alps" was/is the old tourist slogan for my country - Slovenia - which most of Americans will have little trouble finding out where it is - by mentioning it is some 100 miles east of the little known town in Italy that also goes by the name of Venice
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...
  
 So, I can not give you any direction for SQ of FM stations in the USA - "slightly" too far for me. If you are the super lucky "FM  SOB" and live on some peak in the mountains, say at approx 1500 metres above the sea level, you may well have the pick of MANY stations; as a joke, I took a simple battery powered portable FM radio to one such location - and you can not turn the tuning knob without going past at LEAST TWO stations - which in the valley are not available even with reference broadcast grade equipment. At that place ( Velika planina https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velika_planina ) I could have ANY Slovenian station, most of the northern Italy stations, more powerful Croatian stations, stations from Austria ( Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra featured regularly in live broadcasts on ORF, Austrian Radio ...), even some Hungarian station(s) - ALL on FM ...
  
 There is a thing - one thing - THE thing I have to be grateful to our national RTV Slovenija. And that is their archive of analog tapes from the end of WW2 to "present". Gradually everything is being digitized (or has already been digitized 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - yeah, I do understand tha analog tapes deteriorate over time, that digitizing is the way to preserve them for the future ...) - but you should see my smile every time they play something genuinly analog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Our Italian audiophile friends have nothing but contempt for the FM - until, almost by force, seated in front of the good system with great FM as a source over here - sooo much has generally FM deteriorated just some 100 miles to the west... - it is whose station will sound the loudest, with music compressed to the absolute maximum limits technically possible; I would not care one iota for the FM under such conditions, either...
  
 As you can see, there will be some research required - IF you have the ability to have a decent FM antenna on a rotator. I realize it is (next to ) impossible to have it organized if you live on say 103th floor - and there are some 100 or more floors above you, before there is a roof where you could perch that antenna. But do ask around - and particularly people that are around for at least 50 years; they might be able to point the good stations for you and then is up to you how much you want to invest in FM; but even a small antenna on a rotator and entry level tuner will drive the basic dipole (you get with every tuner) plus some supertuner right into the ground. Only each individual can  decide how  far he/she is likely to go - placing antenna to the highest position you can possibly get to is great for FM reception - but is unfortunately equally great for receiving a lightning ...


----------



## Amish

Not to derail the wonderful conversation you guys are on...lol But....
  
 My 8100's arrived today and been testing everything. So far everything works fine and I'm really pleased with the sound. The music is more...musical running my Rotel through the SA-8100 and out to a set of Sennheisers. I am pleased to say that my Harmon Kardan 3490 is going to get packed up and stored in the garage. This Pioneer is more enjoyable to listen to than the HK which might be a little more sterile. Gonna hook up my Ember as a preamp and see how that goes.
  
 The TX-8100 is one sweet tuner. Man it pulls in stations like no other. Well pleased. The amp is dead silent too. Max the volume and I don't hear anything at all. Just like my Bryston.
  
 Not put on the shelf yet as I'm testing but..


----------



## Skylab

VERY nice, Amish!!!


----------



## connieflyer

Amish, you will love the set up, I bought the SA9100 and TX 9100 and the CTX 7100  when they first came out, and used them up till the late 90's gave to sister and she used them another 10 years, expensive to fix with the precision components, but at sixty watts the amp drove all my Wharfdales, and Electro-Voice EV-5's, I have looked at getting a renewed set, but the prices kept me away, enjoy my friend!


----------



## Amish

@Skylab Thanks man!! I'm well pleased.
  
@connieflyer I'm sure I will thanks.
  
  
 So I have another question if anyone is willing to provide an answer.
  
 I'm hooking up my project Ember amp as a preamp to the SA-8100. I see a few ways of doing this and would like to know if there is a best way to do it.
  
  
 1. Looking at the rear of the SA-8100 amp I have the option of using the preamp input which bypasses the SA-8100 amp and seems to just pass through the Ember singal out to my speakers. This way seems to bypass every function of the pioneer amp. Volume control is done by using the gain on the ember. Sounds damn good too.
  
 2. Plugging the Ember into the AUX 1 or AUX 2 now uses the amp of the Pioneer and all functions of the amp work. This way I have to turn the ember volume up to 75% or more and then use the volume on the pioneer. This was is convenient but not sure if SQ is as good. It's tuff to tell because switching between option 1 above and this one (aux 2) takes too much time to be able to judge sq properly.
  
 3. My third option I have not tried yet but I could plug the Ember into one of the tape inputs.
  
  
 So the question of the day is which is the purest way to run my Ember through the pioneer? I'm looking to get as much of the tube sound through this pioneer as possible.
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## analogsurviver

amish said:


> @Skylab Thanks man!! I'm well pleased.
> 
> @connieflyer I'm sure I will thanks.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmm... please specify, exactly, the signal paths from the source to the speakers/headphones, for both of the mentioned possibilities. And do take care whether it is an "input" or "output"...
  
 Otherwise, congrats on your new gear - it looks very nice !


----------



## Amish

I took this from manual and drew in the info you requested. This is how I have it hooked up right now and it sounds great. But would it be best to run the tube amp into the pioneer amp's tape in or aux in?
  
  
 PC USB > DAC > tube amp input > tube amp output > Pioneer SA-8100 amp's pre-power amp input


----------



## analogsurviver

amish said:


> I took this from manual and drew in the info you requested. This is how I have it hooked up right now and it sounds great. But would it be best to run the tube amp into the pioneer amp's tape in or aux in?
> 
> 
> PC USB > DAC > tube amp input > tube amp output > Pioneer SA-8100 amp's pre-power amp input


 
 The input labelled AUX and TAPE IN is - EXACTLY THE SAME ! Only switch between the source and actual input of an amp.
  
 For the case of running either AUX or TAPE IN inputs I see no reason for yet another one unnecessary link in the chain - and that would be the tube amp. But if it gives you flavor you like better than without it - hey, it is your system and your ears should be the judge. But absolutely necessary it is, under any circumstances,  not.
  
 If you run the DAC>tube amp>power amp in - basically the same thing, unless your DAC has no provision for the volume control - in that case, some form of volume control is required, in this case provided by the tube amp.
  
 Your ears should be the final arbiter - enjoy the journey !


----------



## Amish

@analogsurviver
  
  Well the tube amp volume works when hooked up through the pioneer pre-power amp input.
  
 If I hook it up to the tape in or aux in then I have to use the volume on the pioneer.
  
 The main reason I did this is because my tube amp is only for headphones and I wanted to run speakers off it so feeding the tube amp into the Pioneer sa-8100 allows me to hear my tube-elicious sounds out of my speakers. For headphone duties I will still run my cans out of the tube amp or my Bryston BHA-1.
  
  
 My main question was (and I think you answered it) would it make a SQ difference between the SA-8100 inputs: tape in, aux in, or pre-power amp in.
  
 I suppose it matters not.
  
 I actually think the most pure way to pass the tube amp through the pioneer is through the pre-amp input. BUT I have to reach behind the pioneer to hit that switch when I don't want to use the tube amp. So even though I think I'm losing a little SQ by going through the aux I will do so because everything can be done via the front controls.


----------



## Skylab

Hi Amish,

Purely from a sound quality perspective, it's better to connect the tube preamp to the power amp input on the 8100, thus bypassing all of the 8100's preamp circuitry.

However, I wouldn't do that, because the 8100 has lots of great useful features, all of which require its preamp. So I would connect the tube amp to the AUX in, and then use it that way when desired. But now volume, balance, tone controls...all still work. And you can connect a turntable to the Pioneer's excellent phono stage


----------



## connieflyer

I would agree with Skylab, the components on the Pioneer are some of the best that were available at the time.  The preamp section is very strong.  Try running it through all aux in and tape in, set all controls to neutral without any boost and see how it sounds.  One input may be better than the others, hard to say with gear this old.


----------



## SirMarc

You could also pick up a tube buffered dac and just run it to the aux or tape input. I use an aune t1 which uses the sdj8 family of tubes, 6922, 7308, e88cc, etc. Flac or hi res files through a nos amperex 7308 into my Kenwood kr-7600 is a thing of beauty with headphones or speakers. I even parked my Asgard 2 headphone amp...


----------



## Mechans1

skylab said:


> Hi Amish,
> 
> Purely from a sound quality perspective, it's better to connect the tube preamp to the power amp input on the 8100, thus bypassing all of the 8100's preamp circuitry.
> 
> However, I wouldn't do that, because the 8100 has lots of great useful features, all of which require its preamp. So I would connect the tube amp to the AUX in, and then use it that way when desired. But now volume, balance, tone controls...all still work. And you can connect a turntable to the Pioneer's excellent phono stage


 

 Unfortunately The best sound quality is in all likelihood going to come from the first system you proposed bypassing all of the Pioneer's preamp capability.  If you like the 8100 that much why try to introduce a tube preamp.  If you really think a tube anywhere in the system will be helpful try a CD player with a tube output stage of use  tube buffer between the CD and 8100.  Otherwise I don't think you will be getting what you are really hoping for which is truly  better SQ.
 I suppose the only way you will know is to try the various ways of introducing the Ember. I don't think you will damage anything.


----------



## Amish

Well it seems you guys agree with my last post above (near the bottom) I already came to the conclusion that the best SQ way of doing it is through the pioneers pre-power amp input, but decided to use the aux to keep the pioneer controls.
  
  


amish said:


> I actually think the most pure way to pass the tube amp through the pioneer is through the pre-amp input. BUT I have to reach behind the pioneer to hit that switch when I don't want to use the tube amp. So even though I think I'm losing a little SQ by going through the aux I will do so because everything can be done via the front controls.


 
  
    Quote:


sirmarc said:


> You could also pick up a tube buffered dac and just run it to the aux or tape input. I use an aune t1 which uses the sdj8 family of tubes, 6922, 7308, e88cc, etc. Flac or hi res files through a nos amperex 7308 into my Kenwood kr-7600 is a thing of beauty with headphones or speakers. I even parked my Asgard 2 headphone amp...


 
  
 Also my DAC is tube buffered.
  
 And the only reason I want to run my tube amp through the Pioneer I spoke of above as well which is to use my speakers with my tube amp which was not possible before because it is a headphone amp.


amish said:


> The main reason I did this is because my tube amp is only for headphones and I wanted to run speakers off it so feeding the tube amp into the Pioneer sa-8100 allows me to hear my tube-elicious sounds out of my speakers. For headphone duties I will still run my cans out of the tube amp or my Bryston BHA-1.


 
  
  
 My cd player goes directly through the Pioneer and sounds awesome. I don't want to run it through my DAC and tube amp to Pioneer. Like I said I only want the tube amp so I can use speakers with it via the Pioneer which was never possible before due to the tube amp being a headphone amp. It is just one more option I have available to me now that I have this SA-8100. 
  
  
 Anyways thanks for all the replies as it seems to me my conclusions were right as you guys just confirmed.


----------



## SirMarc

OK, so overall, I'm pretty impressed with the Kenwood kr-7600. It sounds really good with my tube dac through my hd580's and my dahlquist dq-20s. I've lived with the phono stage for the past week and its very neutral and detailed with a nice soundstage, so not bad at all. Today as an experiment I hooked up my turntable to the dynaco and ran some RCA cables from the tape out to the aux in on the Kenwood. The soundstage shrunk a bit, and I lost a bit of detail, but damn the dynaco phono stage is sweet sounding. Not sure what to do...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Speaking of phono stages.  Making some progress on my vintage Leach phono stage project.  Have it in a nice case now and am feeding it into the AUX input of my 1250.  The Leach was never supposed to be anything incredible - but I will tell you it is beating the phono stage in my 1250 with more detail, more slam, and better imaging.  Of course I have improved it by making it dual mono, using WBT silver solder, replacing ceramic caps with film, bypassing signal path caps with high quality Multicap and Clarity capacitors.  Also using silver coated oxygen free copper wire and Connex connectors for all the wiring.  All I need now is to add the Nelson Pass designed B1 buffer (reserved space in the front) to provide volume control and input selection and will have a complete preamp.  Will be using it with my Rowland amps.  Here is what she looks like so far:


----------



## SirMarc

Damn, want to make me one? Lol


----------



## SpeakerBox

The tough part would be finding the original Leach issued PC boards.  I bought mine 38 years ago and just never got around to stuffing them until now.  I think they are unobtainium.


----------



## SirMarc

Was mostly joking, but all kidding aside, that's pretty cool...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Thanks for the compliment.  Much appreciated.


----------



## SirMarc

Anyone have experience with the schiit Mani?


----------



## Mechans1

analogsurviver said:


> FM is intended for not beyond horizon distances ( although in a pinch *can* work slightly beyond that limitation ). "On the sunny side of the Alps" was/is the old tourist slogan for my country - Slovenia - which most of Americans will have little trouble finding out where it is - by mentioning it is some 100 miles east of the little known town in Italy that also goes by the name of Venice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I was curious about your location  and was surprised to read your response being outside the USA.  As for my own use of tuners , I m much too lazy to put up an exterior antennae,   I live in an apartment now and an exterior antennae is not an option.  When I had my house I always told myself to put up such an antennae but never did.  The result is that I don't hear much new or interesting old music to add to my collection. Eventually I guess I will end up streaming to learn about new music.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have a roof top antenna mainly because the two stations I care about (both Jazz/Blues) are weak and I live behind a hill.  That said it has worked out well and both stations come in very nicely.


----------



## headphones1999

guys pls help me choose.
  
 i have 5 options.
 sansui 6600
 sansui 417
 pioneer 828
 kenwood kr9400
 McIntosh ma5100 (i think its the best option but i want to know if anyone here got experience with it)  
  
 looking for the most natural relaxed sound, but that still got the Integrated sound (thats why im not sure about the McIntosh)
 i have the kenwood KA405 right now but mids\treble is way too "loud" for me.


----------



## roadcykler

If it was me, I'd go with the big Kenwood. In fact, it's the biggest receiver they built with gobs of power. I have the KR5400 and I think it's quite smooth without anything sounding too forward. Granted, the sound of different receivers from the same line can and probably will be different, but it's hard to say for sure. The McIntosh would probably be the next choice for me, depending on the price and condition.


----------



## headphones1999

roadcykler said:


> If it was me, I'd go with the big Kenwood. In fact, it's the biggest receiver they built with gobs of power. I have the KR5400 and I think it's quite smooth without anything sounding too forward. Granted, the sound of different receivers from the same line can and probably will be different, but it's hard to say for sure. The McIntosh would probably be the next choice for me, depending on the price and condition.



 

thanks.
so i think i will try 9400 first, hope it got good headphones output as well


----------



## SirMarc

I'm noticing a channel imbalance at certain points on the volume pot on my Kenwood kr-7600. For example, at 2 its centered, at 3-4 its a little off to the left, at 5-6 a little closer to center, at 6-7 its OK again. There is no static or crackling from the pot. What do you guys think? Should I spray it with de-oxit? Or do you think the pot is bad? Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## analogsurviver

sirmarc said:


> I'm noticing a channel imbalance at certain points on the volume pot on my Kenwood kr-7600. For example, at 2 its centered, at 3-4 its a little off to the left, at 5-6 a little closer to center, at 6-7 its OK again. There is no static or crackling from the pot. What do you guys think? Should I spray it with de-oxit? Or do you think the pot is bad? Any advice would be appreciated.


 
 Sorry - it looks like you will have to change the pot.
  
 It is a very common phenomenon - because serious pots cost serious money. Always did, always will. In vintage gear, there is additional problem - usually, original pot will be smaller in physical size than modern day equivalent you can buy. I would suggest Alps pots - as they are sweet spot in price/performance ratio and are reasonably available.
  
 If you want, you can go crazy with pot(s) - like around 1K$ crazy. But by then, channel imbalance due to pot should be long ago inaudible.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks man. I may leave the club and buy a new integrated. I'm an electro-mechanical tech by trade, and really don't feel like working on stuff on my time off. Its not fun to me anymore, just want to kick back and enjoy the music. Thinking about a Rogue Audio Sphinx. Tube pre amp, 100 watt a channel ss amp with a very nice phono stage. A warranty is sounding kind of nice about now lol


----------



## JamesBr

speakerbox said:


> I have a roof top antenna mainly because the two stations I care about (both Jazz/Blues) are weak and I live behind a hill.  That said it has worked out well and both stations come in very nicely.


 
  
 What kind of antenna did you use to get a better sound?


----------



## parbaked

jamesbr said:


> What kind of antenna did you use to get a better sound?



Roof top is the key to get better reception.


----------



## jnorris

I sold all my tuners and now take the line out from my Samsung Tab 2 running Pandora or an on-line radio broadcast and plug it into the tuner input of my pre-amp.  Sound is much better and far fewer commercials.


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> Thanks man. I may leave the club and buy a new integrated. I'm an electro-mechanical tech by trade, and really don't feel like working on stuff on my time off. Its not fun to me anymore, just want to kick back and enjoy the music. Thinking about a Rogue Audio Sphinx. Tube pre amp, 100 watt a channel ss amp with a very nice phono stage. A warranty is sounding kind of nice about now lol


 

  The rogue sphinx is a excellent choice. It offers a lot of bang for the buck and can power even difficult speakers with no issues whatsoever. Plus it has a dedicated headphone amp ckt as well. It also has excellent build quality. In fact it hits way above its modest price.


----------



## SirMarc

buson160man said:


> The rogue sphinx is a excellent choice. It offers a lot of bang for the buck and can power even difficult speakers with no issues whatsoever. Plus it has a dedicated headphone amp ckt as well. It also has excellent build quality. In fact it hits way above its modest price.



The funny thing is, the Kenwood is fine. It was the beginning of a nasty ear infection lol. Been eyeing the Sphinx for a while now though, and may still pull the trigger.


----------



## hainss

I want to drive the HE-6 with my Marantz 1060B in the speaker output. Do you think it worth the price and the time to buy the Hifiman adapter cable for speaker amp? 
  
 Do you know if the 1060 have a better sounding than the 1060B.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jamesbr said:


> What kind of antenna did you use to get a better sound?


 
  
 I don't remember the brand.  But it is one of those small VHF/UHF rooftops.  I also have a channel master amp on it - which did help quite a bit.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I sold all my tuners and now take the line out from my Samsung Tab 2 running Pandora or an on-line radio broadcast and plug it into the tuner input of my pre-amp.  Sound is much better and far fewer commercials.


 
  
 I have always found streaming to sound worse than my FM tuner on a good station.


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> I have always found streaming to sound worse than my FM tuner on a good station.



 


That's just it - on a good station. Those are few and far between and very rarely close enough to get a good signal. I set up multiple Pandora "Radio Stations" and I get a good sounding stream of my favorite types of music.

I do remember listening to great live broadcasts and jazz stations on my tuner back in the '70's. I had an FM-specific roof antenna then. Unfortunately, those stations have been taken over and now play classic rock, smooth jazz or adult-pablum-rock. Sad.


----------



## SpeakerBox

We are pretty lucky here in Rochester NY (especially if you like Jazz or Classical).  Three excellent stations to choose from.


----------



## jnorris

I'm in the extreme suburbs of NYC.  It's a wasteland up here.  Even if you just want to hear a traffic report you have to listen to all the local birthdays, then commercials, then junk music like '80s Hall and Oates, then you might get the traffic - and it might be up to date.


----------



## Skylab

hainss said:


> I want to drive the HE-6 with my Marantz 1060B in the speaker output. Do you think it worth the price and the time to buy the Hifiman adapter cable for speaker amp?
> 
> Do you know if the 1060 have a better sounding than the 1060B.




Yes - the 1060 is 30 wpc into 8 ohms, so the combination of the power deliver into 50 ohms plus the dropping resistor means that the headphone out probably won't deliver as good a sound with the HE-6 as the speaker cables will. 

I don't know about the difference between the 1060 and the 1060B, hopefully one one else here does.


----------



## Oregonian

hainss said:


> I want to drive the HE-6 with my Marantz 1060B in the speaker output. Do you think it worth the price and the time to buy the Hifiman adapter cable for speaker amp?
> 
> Do you know if the 1060 have a better sounding than the 1060B.


 

 Having tried the HFM adapter box (is that what you are saying?) I would go straight to speaker taps...............HE-6 cable to adapter straight to the B speaker tap.  I tried headphone out, then HFM box, then taps and the difference was stark.  Stuck with speaker taps and can not believe how good the sound was out of them!


----------



## Amish

speakerbox said:


> I have always found streaming to sound worse than my FM tuner on a good station.


 
 I stream a lot in my car and some at home. Streaming can sound really good through Pandora. Even more so if you pay for their service.
  


> *Audio Quality *
> *Pandora on the Web plays 64k AAC+ for free listeners and 192kbps for Pandora One subscribers. All in-home devices play 128kbps audio, and mobile devices receive a variety of different rates depending on the capability of the device and the network they are on, but never more than 64k AAC+.*


 
   

 I've been nothing but impressed with pandora's music quality considering it is a streaming service.
  
 That said I still like having a tuner to listen to my local stations. (Though I can stream those too but choose not to.)


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> The funny thing is, the Kenwood is fine. It was the beginning of a nasty ear infection lol. Been eyeing the Sphinx for a while now though, and may still pull the trigger.


 

  If you do you will definitely not be disappointed. In addition as you know the unit is a hybrid with a tube preamp section and solid state amplifier section. In essence you have the best of both worlds.
 If I were still using passive speakers(I have moved on to active speakers the last few years and I am never going back to passive designs) the rogue would prove to be a stellar unit offering sound quality way beyond  its modest price.


----------



## SirMarc

buson160man said:


> If you do you will definitely not be disappointed. In addition as you know the unit is a hybrid with a tube preamp section and solid state amplifier section. In essence you have the best of both worlds.
> If I were still using passive speakers(I have moved on to active speakers the last few years and I am never going back to passive designs) the rogue would prove to be a stellar unit offering sound quality way beyond  its modest price.



That's what got me looking at it in the first place. I love hybrids. The warmth of tubes with the punch of solid state. That's why I use a tube dac. Already drooling over what it might sound like with nos amperex or mullard tubes...


----------



## SirMarc

As my ears get better, the Kenwood kr-7600 is sounding better and better. I'd say the signature is on the warmer side of neutral and is pairing up nicely with my dahlquist dq-20's. It plays exceptionally well with my tube dac through a nos amperex 7308 with Flac and hi res files. 
Not alot of Kenwood love here lately, but I'm impressed and would recommend this receiver to anyone interested in vintage gear.


----------



## Silent One

Kenwood is loved here in SoCal 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Had always wanted the 9600...
  
 In other news...
  
 ...wandered into my storage unit today to retrieve a couple of very small items. And had to move a lot big items out the way first!


----------



## XUPX

Hey everyone. This is still a really great thread that i keep coming back to. 
I missed the Fisher 500c a while ago, but now have a coupke options and I'm not sure what to choose, so some help would be great. 
Fisher X-101d vs. Sherwood 8000iv. 
Both unrestored but in good condition. Fisher is more expensive. FM is nice but not necessary. 
I listen mostly to rock, but also to many other things such as jazz and classical. Will be using my HD800's and the source is PC > AK120 as DAC. 
I couldn't find too much on this Fisher but it is supposed to be very similar to the X-101c. The Sherwood is supposed to have the amp section of the S5500. 
I'll probably audition both, but wondering what you guys think.
According to the Fisher seller, the X-101d and the 500c sound very similar, although the 500c has slightly higher output, not that it matters too much to me. 
Any advice or opinion (other than the obvious auditioning one) would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks.


----------



## dogwan

Haven't posted in this thread in a while. Know this is nothing new or unusual, but picked up this gem the other day. Ignore the price sticker. I get a discount at the thrift where I got it for $38.
  
 Fully functioning but has a slightly high DC offset in the left channel and some low level noise that needs to be looked after. Pulls in stations like a champ.
  
 Going to use it in the bedroom with a pair of re-furbed Epicure Model 5's. It drives the hell out of my AKG K401's. No thin bass anymore and the dual power supplies really do wonders for the soundstage.


----------



## Amish

Nice find!


----------



## XUPX

So, I auditioned the Fisher today. It sounds quite amazing. The bass and the mids are simply stunning. In Getz/Gilberto The Girl from Ipanema, it sounded as if Joao Gilberto was singing in my ear. 
 The highs though were very rolled off and and not impressive. I'm not sure if it is the way the amp is, or because it needs a recap, or the combination of both.
 There was a slight hum in the background, but I recall someone saying that once restored, the 500C (I'm using that as a reference for the X-101 D) was dead quiet.
 Any input from any Fisher owners here would be most welcome. If someone wants to chime in on the Fisher vs Sherwood, that'd also be great. I'm looking for transparent and neutral sound.


----------



## Silent One

Not sure about the Fisher, no experience there. Beautiful selection with the aforementioned track and I've experience with that.


----------



## ssrock64

dogwan said:


> Haven't posted in this thread in a while. Know this is nothing new or unusual, but picked up this gem the other day. Ignore the price sticker. I get a discount at the thrift where I got it for $38.
> 
> Fully functioning but has a slightly high DC offset in the left channel and some low level noise that needs to be looked after. Pulls in stations like a champ.
> 
> Going to use it in the bedroom with a pair of re-furbed Epicure Model 5's. It drives the hell out of my AKG K401's. No thin bass anymore and the dual power supplies really do wonders for the soundstage.


 
 It's a shame that H/K stuff doesn't usually compete well with other receivers of similar vintage, since they're very handsome.


----------



## Oregonian

dogwan said:


> Haven't posted in this thread in a while. Know this is nothing new or unusual, but picked up this gem the other day. Ignore the price sticker. I get a discount at the thrift where I got it for $38.
> 
> Fully functioning but has a slightly high DC offset in the left channel and some low level noise that needs to be looked after. Pulls in stations like a champ.
> 
> Going to use it in the bedroom with a pair of re-furbed Epicure Model 5's. It drives the hell out of my AKG K401's. No thin bass anymore and the dual power supplies really do wonders for the soundstage.


 

 Nice find neighbor!  If you need a place to have it serviced, give Doug at Audio Specialties a call - 503-257-3206 - he's on 102nd and Halsey.  Good man, good prices and you can drool over all kinds of vintage equipment in his store.


----------



## dogwan

ssrock64 said:


> It's a shame that H/K stuff doesn't usually compete well with other receivers of similar vintage, since they're very handsome.


 
 That's the 1st time I've heard that. I have always had the impression the vintage HK stuff was well respected. Especially the twin power units.


----------



## jjacq

I've decided to look for a vintage amp for my LCD-X. I'm kind of overwhelmed with my choices, how do I choose?


----------



## captouch

dogwan said:


> That's the 1st time I've heard that. I have always had the impression the vintage HK stuff was well respected. Especially the twin power units.


 
  
 Twin power H/K units (430, 730, 930) are really nice sounding.  I think the build quality is somewhat below some of the other brands (Sansui, Yamaha, Marantz, etc) of similar time period, but the sound itself is really nice.


----------



## captouch

Got a new vintage receiver in, a Sony STR-6060F, had it fully recapped.
  
This late 60's Sony receiver has a reputation for being tube-like, so I compared it against both a fully recapped Marantz 1060 and a Fisher KX-100 tube integrated on Vandersteen 2CE Signatures.  Thought I'd post my note here:
  
*First: Sony 6060 vs Marantz 1060:*

The Marantz 1060 is more polite, a bit fuller/warmer, the bass maybe a touch stronger, and has a somewhat less forward presentation (maybe 5th row).

The Sony 6060F is more dynamic, more forward/live, seemingly a bit more detail and maybe tips up a bit more toward higher mid/treble than the Marantz's upper bass/mid 'emphasis'.

You could say the Marantz has a prettier, more forgiving, but at the expense of some dynamics and transparency/texture.

To my ears, the Marantz is actually more tubey sounding if I think about the stereotypical tubey characteristic of softer, prettier, more mid centric.  That's not to say the Sony isn't tube like - it's just less so relative to the Marantz.  
  
*Next: Sony 6060 vs Fisher KX-100:*
  
They're more alike than different.  If Sony is a 1st row presentation, Fisher is maybe 3rd.  Not recessed by any means , but not quite as forward.  Both have very good detail and transparency.

The Sony sounds louder at the same SPL level - the cymbals, brushes, high hats,etc are just a bit more apparent and forward - even though I volume equalized using an iPhone SPL app.  The Fisher seems a bit more refined and smooth, but without being veiled or laid back on an objective level.

If the Marantz is at one extreme and the Sony are the other, the Fisher is probably 2/3rd toward the Sony on the same scale.

So both are very good - if you like forward, max PRaT, etc, you might prefer the Sony (at least on the Vandersteens), but on more potentially forward speakers (like Klipsch Fortes for example), one might conceivably prefer the Fisher as it could tame a bit of the brightness/harshness one can hear at times with horns.

All the listening comparisons were done with only 3-4 CD's: Kind of Blue, Diana Krall, Abbey Road, and a Ray Charles duet CD.  Probably more tame material that many might use, but I think Abbey Road presents enough of the rock element to not have my comparison be totally soft/jazz/vocal material.
  
In summary, I enjoyed all three, and it all ultimately comes down to preference of presentation and synergy with speakers.


----------



## ssrock64

dogwan said:


> That's the 1st time I've heard that. I have always had the impression the vintage HK stuff was well respected. Especially the twin power units.


 

 I guess perhaps I was mistaken. I think my impression of modern HK gear was bleeding into what I thought of their vintage units.


----------



## PhoenixG

captouch said:


> Got a new vintage receiver in, a Sony STR-6060F, had it fully recapped.
> 
> This late 60's Sony receiver has a reputation for being tube-like, so I compared it against both a fully recapped Marantz 1060 and a Fisher KX-100 tube integrated on Vandersteen 2CE Signatures.  Thought I'd post my note here:
> 
> ...


 
 Very nice impression! I had a 6060 and paired it with a pair of modern infinity cmmd type speakers and like it immensely. I also built an adapter to add a woofer that worked nicely and increased the 6060's deep bass substantially to the correct level (15-50 Hz). I think all in the entire system cost under $300. I eventually settled on the sony str-6120 for it's more flat response, better deep bass, and slightly higher accuracy. Don't let the name fool you it is a top tier set of gear. I currently own several of them, with one powering a set of xr-290's. Audio bliss for me.


----------



## JamesBr

jjacq said:


> I've decided to look for a vintage amp for my LCD-X. I'm kind of overwhelmed with my choices, how do I choose?


 
  
 Budget is a good start


----------



## Amish

jjacq said:


> I've decided to look for a vintage amp for my LCD-X. I'm kind of overwhelmed with my choices, how do I choose?


 
  
  
 Brands to look at: Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, Akai,  Fisher, Mcintosh, Kenwood, & Teac. Sony has some nice vintage stuff too.
  
 Once you know your budget then there is plenty of good info about vintage amps and receivers online to help narrow it down.


----------



## buson160man

amish said:


> Brands to look at: Pioneer, Marantz, Sansui, Akai,  Fisher, Mcintosh, Kenwood, & Teac. Sony has some nice vintage stuff too.
> 
> Once you know your budget then there is plenty of good info about vintage amps and receivers online to help narrow it down.


 

  You can add the concept line of receivers as well. Seeing you are in California you should not have any difficulty looking one up. Concept was a house brand produced for the now defunct pacific stereo chain. It was I guess their premium house brand. They were a bit cheaper than some of the name brands but their build quality was stellar. They do look kind of hum drum next to the flashier looks of the other name brands but it is their sound and build quality that gave them their good sound so do not be put off but their plane jane looks. I purchased a recapped concept 16.5 which was the flagship model. Wow what a beast it weighs in at sixty seven pounds and has a dual mono power supply with two large frame transformers. It is a very powerful sounding unit. I bought it to drive my audeze lcd2 v2s and boy does it deliver. It leaves most dedicated headphone amps in the rear view mirror. The 16.5 has an authority that I have not heard from just about any headphone amp. But it is pretty large and takes up a lot of space.
 Plus it is not exactly easy to move around. But it does drive my lcd2s and my somewhat hungrier akg 701s in a fashion that is very satisfying.
  I did add a couple of premium fuses and the resultant sound was very much more impressive. By the way the two rear accessed plug in fuses were rated at 7 amps each. That should give you some idea of how much power that the 16.5 has on tap. This beast was rated at 165 watts rms per channel into 8 ohms.


----------



## Amish

@buson160man  You are right! How could I forget that brand? In fact I saw some of their stuff awhile back on the bay.
  
 I might add that I've enjoyed some MCS gear too, not owned by me though. This was a JC Penny's brand.


----------



## buson160man

amish said:


> @buson160man  You are right! How could I forget that brand? In fact I saw some of their stuff awhile back on the bay.
> 
> I might add that I've enjoyed some MCS gear too, not owned by me though. This was a JC Penny's brand.


 

 The MCS series I remember them. Boy does this blog brings back memories of the glory days of my youth. I remembered running amuck in the plethora of stereo chains way back in the seventies before the accountants started taking charge and started cutting corners to save money. None of the chains from the seventies survived. The days of Japanese mass  produced equipment has long disappeared. The ever escalating prices have made the days of affordable premium equipment a thing of the past.


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> Kenwood is loved here in SoCal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Wow the amplifier section from either the sansuii  g22000 or is it the amp section from the big daddy g33000. That's a nice piece to have around. What a waste you are not using it.


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> Wow the amplifier section from either the sansuii  g22000 or is it the amp section from the big daddy g33000. That's a nice piece to have around. What a waste you are not using it.


 
 The pre-amp for the G-22000 is just out of view with the Pioneer SX-D7000; SX-650. Sadly, my temporary residence is fully furnished and simply no room for my gears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Hopefully my next move in autumn/winter will be unfurnished and see the band back together.


----------



## jjacq

I got the amp yesterday with a free equalizer and tuner that I will probably sell but I do hear some crackle on the headphone stage and I feel like it's too tinny on the highs with the LCD-X. I'm having it looked at tomorrow by the guys that serviced my DAC but I wonder if they could lower the impedance of the headphone jack to accommodate the X's 20 ohm impedance?


----------



## BobG55

Hi,
  
 I'm asking for help from the members who have owned or own the Pioneer receivers I'm looking at.  I want to buy one of them.
  
 I'm presently looking at the following Pioneers :
  
 -SX680
  
 -SX780
  
 -SX850
  
  
 Two questions : 
  
 1-) Can they all drive high impedance HPs ? e.g. HD6xx & HD800 ?
  
 2-) Which of these three has the best detailed sound & soundstage ?
  
 Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Skylab

Of those, the best will be the SX-850. With both the SX-x50 and -x80 series, the 850/880 was where the first big step up in build quality happens. So assuming they're all in roughly the same condition, the 850 would be the way to go of those three. Any of them would drive high impedance cans well.

I still have a SX-680 in my bedroom and it's a nice little receiver too.


----------



## BobG55

Thanks Skylab, much appreciated.


----------



## MermaidMan

I bought an Onkyo HT-R330 today for very cheap, and my laptop won't recognize the device. It was able to recognize my old DAC/AMP when plugged in, but from the headphone out to RCA of the Onkyo, I get nothing. Any help?


----------



## ssrock64

mermaidman said:


> I bought an Onkyo HT-R330 today for very cheap, and my laptop won't recognize the device. It was able to recognize my old DAC/AMP when plugged in, but from the headphone out to RCA of the Onkyo, I get nothing. Any help?


 

 Your computer shouldn't "recognize" it as a device like it would with a DAC, you should just be able to play music as if headphones were plugged into the jack. If you have the input selected correctly on the receiver and aren't hearing anything, you may just have a very weak headphone output on your computer or something might be faulty with your cable or the receiver's RCA input.


----------



## MermaidMan

ssrock64 said:


> Your computer shouldn't "recognize" it as a device like it would with a DAC, you should just be able to play music as if headphones were plugged into the jack. If you have the input selected correctly on the receiver and aren't hearing anything, you may just have a very weak headphone output on your computer or something might be faulty with your cable or the receiver's RCA input.



The RCA cable and input is fine, it works as it should set up the exact same way except plugged into my phone and not my laptop, I must have a reeeally weak headphone out on my laptop, because I'm not hearing a thing no matter how far I turn the volume up


----------



## MermaidMan

It's working now and I have no reason why... Oh well at least it's working!


----------



## roadcykler

This may be a question better asked elsewhere, but I thought I'd start here since it seem we have a diverse and knowledgeable group when it comes to vintage receivers/amps. Does anyone here have an idea of what the first receiver that came with a remote? I'm guessing sometime in the 80's but I haven't been able to find much in my searching (could be a problem with the terms I'm using). 
  
 I have a Kenwood KR-V7070 which came out in the mid 90's for my garage system, but I'd like to find something a little nicer/vintage that has a remote or at least has the capability of being controlled by one.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> This may be a question better asked elsewhere, but I thought I'd start here since it seem we have a diverse and knowledgeable group when it comes to vintage receivers/amps. Does anyone here have an idea of what the first receiver that came with a remote? I'm guessing sometime in the 80's but I haven't been able to find much in my searching (could be a problem with the terms I'm using).
> 
> I have a Kenwood KR-V7070 which came out in the mid 90's for my garage system, but I'd like to find something a little nicer/vintage that has a remote or at least has the capability of being controlled by one.


 

 A great option is what I have on three different non-remote vintage systems - get a Chase RLC-1 remote setup off eBay, hooked up to your system it gives you volume control as well as can act as a preamp with tone controls.  I've paid between $150 and $180 for my collection.  Worth it and I'd never change. 
  
 Purists would say you're adding another source of "noise" to the audio chain but from A/Bing with the Chase on and off (simply flipping the tape monitor switch on and off allows me to go back and forth) I can't notice a bit of degradation of sound.  Think it's a great solution for vintage (as I'm too lazy to get up to adjust the volume!).


----------



## MermaidMan

Once the Onkyo started working with my computer, my new HE400's are sounding... Dare I say it... Visceral with DSOTM. Plenty of power and so engaging.


----------



## Amish

My remote is 6 years old with voice recognition and not only can adjust the volume in small increments but can adjust the lighting in my room for mood and grab me a drink from the fridge. She's my favorite remote system I have used and she's my daughter.


----------



## Guidostrunk

What a great post. HILARIOUS! 


amish said:


> My remote is 6 years old with voice recognition and not only can adjust the volume in small increments but can adjust the lighting in my room for mood and grab me a drink from the fridge. She's my favorite remote system I have used and she's my daughter.


----------



## Guidostrunk

This might be the best thread yet. Been reading it for 2 weeks now, and am on page 624. I'm totally SOLD! 
I've read both the lyr tube rolling threads , in their entirety, and have to say, this thread is easily tops , at the best sellers list. LOL 
I've spent ridiculous amounts of money on tubes for my lyr over the last several months. With what I've spent, I could have a collection of these beauties, in this thread. 
The hunt is on no doubt. 
Back to reading. I'll be sure to post pics and thoughts on my first purchase. 

Cheers folks!


----------



## Mechans1

Which tubes are you referring to?  This is not a tube rolling thread per se.  I think you must be talking about the other thread you mentioned about tube rolling in the Lyr.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well. If you read my post , thoroughly. You'll get a better sense of what I was saying. This time , read it slower. Lol


mechans1 said:


> Which tubes are you referring to?  This is not a tube rolling thread per se.  I think you must be talking about the other thread you mentioned about tube rolling in the Lyr.


----------



## Mechans1

OK, I understand,  my mistake-.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Cheers 


mechans1 said:


> OK, I understand,  my mistake-.


----------



## Gorquin

Quote: I used to work on the Kenwood 9600 years ago when they were borderline in/out of warranty. Man that unit is HEAVY! The model had two versions, one with Output Transistors in addition to the Output IC module and one without. I don't know if one can find those modules now but back then they went for $120 each. The later version with the transistors was an attempt to protect the module when someone shorted the outputs which seemed to happen quite a bit. In say 1980-1982 $240 for modules + $50 labor and a repair on 2 ch's of that receiver cost you over $300 with tax! OUCH! But they DO sound really nice. The LO-7T Preamp had a lot of intermittents. I had one. It sounded nice when it worked but it always had problems. I had a pair of LO-7M mono blocks which I should have kept. In fact I still have some of that multi-strand Litz type Sigma Drive speaker cable Kenwood made back then and sold for $1/foot.  The black shinny caps always went bad in the LO-7M mono block but they were nice punchy amps. I still have a M1, C1, and KT815 tuner. In fact I still have some transistors etc. from the 90's for Kenwood gear. OK…history lesson over. LOL sorry for the longish post. 





silent one said:


> Kenwood is loved here in SoCal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MermaidMan

Can anyone recommend a cheaper receiver for my HE400's? I have an Onkyo HT-R330 and it's from 2003. While it does drive my HE400's well, it was a cheap thrift store find ($15). I definitely want something vintage as I love the way they look and want the power they have. I would like to spend less than $100.


----------



## Amish

@MermaidMan
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Vintage-Electronics-/14998/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=vintage%20stereo%20receiver&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1&_trksid=p2045573.m1684


----------



## Oregonian

mermaidman said:


> Can anyone recommend a cheaper receiver for my HE400's? I have an Onkyo HT-R330 and it's from 2003. While it does drive my HE400's well, it was a cheap thrift store find ($15). I definitely want something vintage as I love the way they look and want the power they have. I would like to spend less than $100.


 
 https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/search/ela?query=vintage
  
 Look at this list - under electronics and I just typed in vintage.  Happy hunting! 
  
 I've bought three pieces for less than $100 over the past couple of years.


----------



## MermaidMan

oregonian said:


> https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/search/ela?query=vintage
> 
> Look at this list - under electronics and I just typed in vintage.  Happy hunting!
> 
> I've bought three pieces for less than $100 over the past couple of years.



I certainly appreciate the help and enthusiasm. I guess what I meant was are there any specific models l/brands I should look for in that price range? The Onkyo I have opened my eyes to cheap power vs using a dedicated head amp, but I'm now hooked on the allure of vintage gear.


----------



## Amish

There are a number of good vintage brands. I like Pioneer and Sansui the best. (I think we just answered this question a page or two back actually.)


----------



## Oregonian

mermaidman said:


> I certainly appreciate the help and enthusiasm. I guess what I meant was are there any specific models l/brands I should look for in that price range? The Onkyo I have opened my eyes to cheap power vs using a dedicated head amp, but I'm now hooked on the allure of vintage gear.


 

 I'm partial to Pioneer, owning 5 of them currently.  Also have Kenwood, Hitachi and Fisher.


----------



## MermaidMan

oregonian said:


> I'm partial to Pioneer, owning 5 of them currently.  Also have Kenwood, Hitachi and Fisher.



Hitting up the local thrift stores today to see if I can find anything good. I'm in a wealthier part of town so hopefully there are some awesome receivers laying around in some of them.


----------



## Seamaster

oregonian said:


> I'm partial to Pioneer, owning 5 of them currently.  Also have Kenwood, Hitachi and Fisher.




Can you please share your experiences with Hitachi, thanks


----------



## Oregonian

seamaster said:


> Can you please share your experiences with Hitachi, thanks


 

 Sure.  I have the SR-804, which is a Class G amplifier, which has 50 watts per channel but when you "ask" for more power it doubles the output (or that's what I recall reading about the design).  It's a pristine example that looks flawless in both the silver face and the wood case and sounds excellent.


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> Sure.  I have the SR-804, which is a Class G amplifier, which has 50 watts per channel but when you "ask" for more power it doubles the output (or that's what I recall reading about the design).  It's a pristine example that looks flawless in both the silver face and the wood case and sounds excellent.


 
 This is about how I remember Hitachi Class G amps - it was/is a decent sounding design that is very cost effective.


----------



## ForShure

Random question, but since everyone here seems to like vintage gear do any of you guys still listen to cassette tapes on occasion? I've been rediscovering some of my old tapes this past week and loving how they sound. They aren't nearly as detailed or clean sounding as digital or good vinyl but there is a certain charm to the sound that I can't really put my finger on, or maybe it's nostalgia


----------



## Mechans1

I still own 2 my own and my brothers cassette players both of the late 1970s vintage (1977).  They are Akai GXC 709Ds.  which was pretty hot stuff in those days but no Nakamichi, which is what we all lusted for.  My best friend at the time got the least expensive Nak. Who would have thought, that less than 10 years later, they would become dinosaurs.  To answer your question, no I don't listen to it. I haven't thrown them away either, just don't have my tapes anymore or the space to cram them into my system.


----------



## Skylab

forshure said:


> Random question, but since everyone here seems to like vintage gear do any of you guys still listen to cassette tapes on occasion? I've been rediscovering some of my old tapes this past week and loving how they sound. They aren't nearly as detailed or clean sounding as digital or good vinyl but there is a certain charm to the sound that I can't really put my finger on, or maybe it's nostalgia :etysmile:




Both my vintage rigs have nice Pioneer cassette decks in them - one a CT-F1000 and one a CT-950. I don't play a lot of cassettes as I am more a reel to reel guy, but I do enjoy playing a cassette or two on occasion. 

Here is the CT-F1000 - bottom left in the stack


----------



## SpeakerBox

Skylab - which pioneer table is that?


----------



## musicman59

skylab said:


> Both my vintage rigs have nice Pioneer cassette decks in them - one a CT-F1000 and one a CT-950. I don't play a lot of cassettes as I am more a reel to reel guy, but I do enjoy playing a cassette or two on occasion.
> 
> Here is the CT-F1000 - bottom left in the stack


 
 Rob, every time you publish a picture of your system I drool and start having flashbacks from my younger years.... thanks for making me get those great memories!!


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


>


 
 What model is that EQ?


----------



## analogsurviver

forshure said:


> Random question, but since everyone here seems to like vintage gear do any of you guys still listen to cassette tapes on occasion? I've been rediscovering some of my old tapes this past week and loving how they sound. They aren't nearly as detailed or clean sounding as digital or good vinyl but there is a certain charm to the sound that I can't really put my finger on, or maybe it's nostalgia


 
 Yes.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Skylab - which pioneer table is that?




It's a PL-570. Me gusta mucho!!!



musicman59 said:


> Rob, every time you publish a picture of your system I drool and start having flashbacks from my younger years.... thanks for making me get those great memories!!




Thanks!!! It's one of many reasons I love the rig. It also sounds killer 



oregonian said:


> What model is that EQ?




Its the one non-Pioneer piece - a Sansui SE-8X in a custom wood case.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> It's a PL-570. Me gusta mucho!!!


 
  
 Do you have the direct drive or belt driven model?  I think there were several iterations of this table.


----------



## Skylab

Pioneer shamefully reused the PL-570 for a cheap plastic belt drive deck at some point, yes. Mine is the heavy duty then TOTL DD deck


----------



## SirMarc

Picked up a 25 dollar target wire rack with leveling feet today, not bad...


----------



## SirMarc

With the weight of the gear and hockey pucks under the turntable, this thing is surprisingly solid...


----------



## roadcykler

Anyone here looking for a SPEC System? One listed in the greater Portland area (full disclosure, not mine and I have no idea who this is).
  
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/5140491733.html


----------



## PhoenixG

That guy seems like our kind of guy. Awesome ad!


----------



## MermaidMan

Just found out I'm getting my uncle's old Yamaha stack from 1981. Integrated amp, separate eq, and tuner. On top of that I just picked up a NAD 512 CD player in pristine condition from a thrift store. Life is good. Will report impressions as soon as I receive the stack with my modded HE400.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> Anyone here looking for a SPEC System? One listed in the greater Portland area (full disclosure, not mine and I have no idea who this is).
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/5140491733.html


 

 That is very close to what I have and about 5 miles from where I work.  Gonna have to go take a look and see if he'll split it up.  I'd like the SG-9800 instead of my SG-9500.  Hmmm..............
  
 Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Oregonian

mermaidman said:


> Just found out I'm getting my uncle's old Yamaha stack from 1981. Integrated amp, separate eq, and tuner. On top of that I just picked up a NAD 512 CD player in pristine condition from a thrift store. Life is good. Will report impressions as soon as I receive the stack with my modded HE400.


 

 Awesome!   Let us know what part numbers they are!


----------



## MermaidMan

They've been sitting in a garage for a while, so I'm not sure if everything works correctly until I get the stack. Hopefully they don't need too much work but I should have them this week.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> Anyone here looking for a SPEC System? One listed in the greater Portland area (full disclosure, not mine and I have no idea who this is).
> 
> http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/5140491733.html


 

 Oh, and just so the drool factor is addressed..................


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> That is very close to what I have and about 5 miles from where I work.  Gonna have to go take a look and see if he'll split it up.  I'd like the SG-9800 instead of my SG-9500.  Hmmm..............
> 
> Thanks for the heads up!


 
  
 You're welcome. After reading your posts, I find that I like Pink Floyd a lot more.


----------



## Oregonian

roadcykler said:


> You're welcome. After reading your posts, I find that I like Pink Floyd a lot more.


 

 Yeah, she's a good advertiser for them...................


----------



## Skylab

Well, if any of you have been thinking of going straight to the top of the class in restored vintage gear, your dream may have come true:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX1250-Stereophonic-Receiver-STUNNING-/161775488660

This guy has a very good rep on AK. Oven ever bought one of his pieces but have been tempted to before...in fact I'm still mad at myself for not buying his fully restored SX-3900.


----------



## roadcykler

I'm guessing the current price won't last long. How much would that typically sell for?


----------



## Skylab

Hard to say...but it won't be cheap. If I had to guess...in the neighborhood of $2K.


----------



## Silent One

No DAC.
 No TT. 





 No problem!
  
 I've grown restless and have put together my mobile rig with one notable exception and took the HE-6 out of hiding. At sunrise, I pulled the monster out along with the HiFiMAN's.
  
 My typical mobile rig - YES - my mobile rig consists of the Big 'G', HD650 & iPod. Usually when I'm staying a few days at a hotel, cafe, library ect. I'll roll the rig around on a flatbed dolly.
  
 Space is tight, so will listen Monday & Tuesday, then back into storage for a bit. Been gone all day and haven't had a chance to remove all the plastic yet. Just a quick shot with iPhone, better quality pix next time.
  
 Can't wait to JAM midday tomorrow!!!


----------



## ssrock64

silent one said:


> No DAC.
> No TT.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Do you output from the headphone jack from your iPod, or do you have one of these types of things?


----------



## Silent One

ssrock64 said:


> Do you output from the headphone jack from your iPod, or do you have one of these types of things?


 
 Diff vendor same concept - RAM Din connector > RCAs. Much lower noise floor than hpo.


----------



## SirMarc

silent one said:


> Diff vendor same concept - RAM Din connector > RCAs. Much lower noise floor than hpo.



Put some thought into a tube dac. I use one with my android phone. Its a beautiful thing to be able to tailor the sound with tubes. Hi res files and flacs with the right tube can approach vinyl with vintage gear...


----------



## Amish

oregonian said:


> Oh, and just so the drool factor is addressed..................


 

 My stack is not nearly as cool...but I have Pony's!


----------



## Amish

sirmarc said:


> Put some thought into a tube dac. I use one with my android phone. Its a beautiful thing to be able to tailor the sound with tubes. Hi res files and flacs with the right tube can approach vinyl with vintage gear...


 
  
 Or you can reach as neutral as possible. All depends on the tube used and the equipment behind it.


----------



## SirMarc

amish said:


> Or you can reach as neutral as possible. All depends on the tube used and the equipment behind it.



Not the point I was trying to make. The point is he can get significantly better sound than straight from the phone. I find a tube dac with the right tube sounds great with vintage gear...


----------



## Amish

sirmarc said:


> Not the point I was trying to make. The point is he can get significantly better sound than straight from the phone. I find a tube dac with the right tube sounds great with vintage gear...


 

 Well away from your point...anyone should be looking for as neutral as possible in any source they maybe using. I want the only color coming from my cans Vs anything else in my chain.


----------



## Silent One

amish said:


> sirmarc said:
> 
> 
> > Not the point I was trying to make. The point is he can get significantly better sound than straight from the phone. I find a tube dac with the right tube sounds great with vintage gear...
> ...


 
 If I may, I would like to briefly join the convo before dinner. 
  
 What may not be clear or clearly known:
  
 - Have a few DACs; entertained an MHDT for a few months once.
 - Have a tube pre-amp with a gorgeous tone.
 - Have a full rig with three vintage receivers and two vintage monaural amps.
 - ALL my gears are temporarily in storage and was simply making light of the few pieces that comprise the mobile rig. Trust me, when my gears are setup in the home I do NOT roll my G-22000 down the street. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 When I want tube magic, I simply switch from SS to all Tubes including pre. I mean, I could mix and match but...my matched tube rig would run the solid state affair around the corner and back. And I love my Sansui!


----------



## MermaidMan

Okay I found out today that the stack was a Yamaha A 760 Integrated amp, a T 760 tuner, and a GE 5 equalizer. I drove 3 hours round trip to pick them up *for free* from my uncle who hasn't used the stack in over a decade. I'm running my modded HE400 from the amp and the first thing I notice is the power this thing has. I'm at 10:00 on the volume dial (which is somewhat noisy.. Deoxit maybe?) and it's more than enough volume. The mids have also seemed to come forward, which these cans definitely need. I'll need some time tomorrow to get some good impressions but I know for sure that this is the best I've ever heard my 400's sound. Haven't used the tuner or eq yet, but they at least turn on. I have work early tomorrow so tomorrow night I should have some better impressions. 

Here's a (bad) cell phone pic :


----------



## Oregonian

Congrats - except for the fuel spend it was a nice freebie!


----------



## ssrock64

amish said:


> My stack is not nearly as cool...but I have Pony's!


 
 Nice vintage stack, and a nice setup all around. I haven't yet had the chance to own multiple pieces of vintage gear that make use of the same chassis, but seeing photos like that makes me want to build a vintage stack of my own for a desktop or cabinet.


----------



## Mechans1

ssrock64 said:


> Nice vintage stack, and a nice setup all around. I haven't yet had the chance to own multiple pieces of vintage gear that make use of the same chassis, but seeing photos like that makes me want to build a vintage stack of my own for a desktop or cabinet.


 

 Me Too!! beautiful looking stack.


----------



## buson160man

silent one said:


> If I may, I would like to briefly join the convo before dinner.
> 
> What may not be clear or clearly known:
> 
> ...


 

  Boy I sure wish I had as much space as you. That sansuii sure is a sweet looking piece of equipment.I live in a small apartment and space is really tight. Thanks for posting a shot of your awesome looking sansuii. I hope that some day I can get to hear one of those sansuuii but as time passes that will probably not happen.


----------



## Silent One

buson160man said:


> Boy I sure wish I had as much space as you. That sansuii sure is a sweet looking piece of equipment.I live in a small apartment and space is really tight. Thanks for posting a shot of your awesome looking sansuii. I hope that some day I can get to hear one of those sansuuii but as time passes that will probably not happen.


 
 Thanks for the kind words. To really appreciate the size of the Big 'G' in a pix, you gotta look at the background for scale. My living quarters are temporarily tight and as much as I want my _vintage lovely_ nearby, it didn't make the cut!
  
 Just returned it to storage this evening after a torrid 48 hour love affair with the iron. Very few examples were made but you might just get lucky one day depending on your region and awareness of ownership.


----------



## ssrock64

I know this is a little past the time period we typically discuss on this thread, but I'm thinking about adding a relatively serious cassette section to my main setup. A number of the record labels I pay the most attention to have started issuing releases on cassette again, and it seems like people are starting to get pricing fatigue from the current vinyl revival and are beginning to turn to cheaper mediums again. Since laptop CD drives and dedicated CD players have gone somewhat out of fashion and cassettes have remained popular with underground and experimental musicians over the years, I think I should start getting ready for increased cassette popularity over the next five or ten years.
  
 For those of you who were into high-end audio when cassettes were last popular, what are some brands or benchmark pieces of equipment I should scout for on Craigslist if I want to build a good cassette setup? I don't want anything integrated, since I enjoy my preamp and speaker amp too much right now to use something else.


----------



## Oregonian

ssrock64 said:


> I know this is a little past the time period we typically discuss on this thread, but I'm thinking about adding a relatively serious cassette section to my main setup. A number of the record labels I pay the most attention to have started issuing releases on cassette again, and it seems like people are starting to get pricing fatigue from the current vinyl revival and are beginning to turn to cheaper mediums again. Since laptop CD drives and dedicated CD players have gone somewhat out of fashion and cassettes have remained popular with underground and experimental musicians over the years, I think I should start getting ready for increased cassette popularity over the next five or ten years.
> 
> For those of you who were into high-end audio when cassettes were last popular, what are some brands or benchmark pieces of equipment I should scout for on Craigslist if I want to build a good cassette setup? I don't want anything integrated, since I enjoy my preamp and speaker amp too much right now to use something else.


 

 Pioneer CTF-1250 is the holy grail from the vintage era from my readings...............I had the CTF-1000 but had a couple of bad parts that were unobtainium so sold it to a guy in Texas off eBay who rebuilds them in quantity with parts from other units.  Got $400 for it so was happy with that. 
  
 Look on the bay for the Pioneer units.  I see a lot for sale.


----------



## ssrock64

oregonian said:


> Pioneer CTF-1250 is the holy grail from the vintage era from my readings...............I had the CTF-1000 but had a couple of bad parts that were unobtainium so sold it to a guy in Texas off eBay who rebuilds them in quantity with parts from other units.  Got $400 for it so was happy with that.
> 
> Look on the bay for the Pioneer units.  I see a lot for sale.


 

 Is it safe to assume that anything 7xx and up from Pioneer's CT-F series of that era is a safe bet, or have you read/experienced that lower models tend to be significantly worse than the TOTL stuff?


----------



## Skylab

I have a Pioneer CT-F950 which is awesome. I also have a CT-F1000 which is awesome when it works, which sadly isn't that often. Oregonian is right, bad idler tire. Pity because they look awesome and sound great when working. 

Then of course there are the Nakamichi Dragon decks...and TEAC made a good cassette deck or two, but I don't know what models.


----------



## Silent One

Always lusted after Nakamichi and nearly went 'Dragon' and other in 2013. These purchases went head-to-head with the same limited funds against vintage amps and lost for now. Some day...


----------



## KeithEmo

ssrock64 said:


> I know this is a little past the time period we typically discuss on this thread, but I'm thinking about adding a relatively serious cassette section to my main setup. A number of the record labels I pay the most attention to have started issuing releases on cassette again, and it seems like people are starting to get pricing fatigue from the current vinyl revival and are beginning to turn to cheaper mediums again. Since laptop CD drives and dedicated CD players have gone somewhat out of fashion and cassettes have remained popular with underground and experimental musicians over the years, I think I should start getting ready for increased cassette popularity over the next five or ten years.
> 
> For those of you who were into high-end audio when cassettes were last popular, what are some brands or benchmark pieces of equipment I should scout for on Craigslist if I want to build a good cassette setup? I don't want anything integrated, since I enjoy my preamp and speaker amp too much right now to use something else.


 
  
 I'm not sure cassettes are a very good candidate for "revival" - quite simply because the reason they faded into obscurity is that they have some pretty serious drawbacks. Furthermore, many of the drawbacks of cassette technology would seem even more of a problem today than they were back when they were current technology. For example, very few cassette decks could deliver frequency response that was even reasonably flat past 15 kHz, and the ones that could relied on being carefully calibrated to exactly match the characteristics of an individual brand and type of tape. The fact that there are less types of tape available, and that it's being manufactured and sold in small quantities, makes this even more problematic - in terms of finding a particular tape that works well with a particular machine and being able to find a reliable supply of it. You also had issues like the fact that cassettes tend to deteriorate with age, and that cassettes tended to be "machine specific" (once you got your cassette deck calibrated perfectly, there was no reasonable assurance that cassettes you recorded would play well on other machines - because things like azimuth adjustment were difficult to adjust, and even more difficult to adjust to match "the standard"). I have serious doubts that cassettes in general can be considered to be "a high fidelity medium".
  
 Beyond all that, many of the original problems are compounded by the fact that you're talking about vintage machines. If you're really determined to go that way, then a good start would be to do some careful research into some of the original problems, and how they relate to vintage hardware.
  
 1) Tape matching - As I mentioned, in order to get really good performance, you usually have to adjust a cassette deck to one specific brand or type of tape. This was much simpler when there were readily available brands and tape types - and many cassette decks were built and initially adjusted to match certain specific tapes, or certain types of tape. One example was chromium dioxide tape, which was generally agreed to have better high frequency performance than "regular tape", but required special bias settings, and tended to wear tape heads very quickly - unless your deck had heads designed to be especially wear resistant. Another example was specific tape numbers "like TDK-SA" where, again, certain machines were either sold with an actual switch setting for that particular tape, or were widely known to work well with it. Since many of the old tape types are entirely unavailable now, it would be best to stick with machines designed or known to work well with "normal tape types" which are still available rather than ones that only work well with hard to find tape types.
  
 2) Tape aging - Cassette tapes themselves don't "wear well", either over repeated playings or long storage. Problems vary from physical ripples due to excessively tight packing on the reel or excessive tension on the player, to simple deterioration of the oxide coating and the adhesive that sticks it to the tape itself. Even when they were relatively "current", used cassettes tended to be damaged or compromised, and even "new old stock" blank tape has a good chance of being compromised.
  
 3) Prerecorded tape quality - While there were a few companies issuing relatively high quality prerecorded cassettes, the vast majority were duplicated at very high speeds (8x or 16x), and the sound quality on most of them was downright awful. Compounding this was the fact that prerecorded tapes were often made using the lowest quality tape available, and the cassettes themselves often used sub-standard mechanical parts (so tapes would tend to stick, stretch, break, and otherwise not work properly at all). This means that finding prerecorded cassettes that were of even moderate quality, and that have survived for thirty or forty years, is going to be very difficult.
  
 3a) New prerecorded tape quality - I don't know who is currently issuing newly-manufactured cassettes, or what equipment they're using to produce them, but I have some serious concerns there. Even back when cassettes were current there were only a very few companies producing high quality prerecorded cassettes (the vast majority were pretty bad). Considering how major this issue was when cassettes were popular and current, I would be curious to know whether current production even matches the original production in terms of quality and consistency. What mastering recorders are they using, and what duplicating speed? Have they found a source of consistently high quality tape and cassette mechanisms? To put it bluntly - Do they actually know what they're doing? (To rephrase that from a customer point of view.... Will you have a consistent and reliable source of high quality prerecorded cassettes?)
  
 4) Used machines - Because cassette technology relies on precise control of tape movement, and relatively precise adjustment of the electronics, there is an increased likelihood that a machine you buy used will either be damaged, out of adjustment, or simply worn out. This is compounded by the fact that the mechanisms used in cassette recorders and players are tiny, and require relatively precise adjustment and alignment to deliver good performance. Since you asked about which machines to buy, I would suggest that you consider TWO factors when considering the responses you get. First, you want to buy a machine that performed well when it was current and, second, you want to choose models that are at least reasonably likely to have survived in good working order.
  
 A few things to consider there:
  
 1) Tape heads wear, and can in fact actually wear out to the point where they don't work at all. Because cassettes are physically smaller, and the heads themselves are smaller, they are much more susceptible to this than the heads on reel-to-reel recorders. Many cassette players ended their life with worn out heads - and one wonders how many of them are now on eBay. (And, if you get a cassette recorder with a worn-out head, it's unlikely that you will be able to either find a replacement, or find someone who knows how to install it.) However, you will find that some models and brands had heads that were much more prone to wear than others. For example, one brand used "crystal ferrite" heads lasted almost forever, which makes it much more likely that a vintage one you find on eBay will have good heads. (Since the popularity of cassettes waned before the Internet was popular, it may be challenging to find this information.)
  
 2) As I mentioned before, with cassettes, the machine has to be calibrated to the characteristics of the tape you're using - and, with most machines, this involves signal generators and turning screws on head mounts and trimpots on circuit boards. This means that you should select a machine that works with standard tape (so, with luck, you can get away with not adjusting it), or one that is easy to adjust. One of the reasons certain models are highly prized is that they have an option to automatically adjust themselves to the tape you were using - which worked very well. (You really wouldn't want to be stuck with a machine that only worked well with a certain brand of tape that is no longer available, and that can't be easily re-calibrated to a different one. Note that calibration is mostly an issue when recording, so you can more or less ignore this if you don't plan to record.) 
  
 3) Solenoids vs rubber wheels. In most cassette players, the drive motors are coupled to the tape spools using tension clutches, or pulleys and belts, or both. These are all prone to various problems: simply wearing out, getting hard, getting too soft, and developing lumps and flat spots from being stored under pressure for decades are the common ones. In particular, the mechanism that controls the tape movement consists of a small rotating shaft (about 1/8" in diameter) and a pressure roller. The shafts are metal, and last very well, but the "capstan roller" or "pinch roller" is one of those parts that is very prone to deterioration over time. And forgetting to take a cassette machine out or play even once, resulting in its being stored for a while with the roller tensioned against the capstan, can ruin the roller in a matter of a few hours. (If the roller isn't perfectly smooth and well maintained, you'll get very audible speed variations and tape slippage.) Some cassette machines also use rubber wheels resting against metal cylinders or fly wheels to drive the capstan mechanism (often called "idler wheel drive"), and the tape tensioning is often done that way. If these rubber wheels or belts dry out and get hard, or develop dents, or get worn and become too slippery, the mechanism slips and the cassette doesn't play correctly. This is all compounded by the fact that the mechanisms inside a cassette deck are very tiny, and so very sensitive to even minor damage. Many higher quality cassette decks used solenoids to control many of the mechanical movements of the mechanism itself, and some used direct drive motors (which were connected directly to the tape hub or capstan without belts or rubber wheels). My point of all this is to explain why, regardless of original performance, a machine that uses "solenoid controls" or "direct drive" is a much better candidate in a vintage machine - because, unlike rubber wheels and belts, solenoids don't dry out or get sticky like rubber, and are in general much more reliable and more likely to work in the long term. (It's very unlikely that even a well-maintained machine that uses rubber drive wheels will still work up to spec after laying around for decades. With a solenoid operated machine, the worst that usually happens is that the lubrication in the solenoids gets stiff over time, and that can be cleaned out.)
  
 Because cassettes did go out of style so long ago, I would suggest that, if looking for a vintage model, you should be more concerned with "current condition" than with "reputation". (In other words, you're going to be a lot better off with a mid-line machine that happens to have survived in really good working order than with a really good machine that has a few worn out parts that you can't replace; base your judgment on how well the unit you're looking at actually works rather than on its reputation as a "great product".) Also note that the recording process is rather more complicated than the playback process. (So, if you're "checking out" a machine before buying it, confirm that it plays reasonably well using a tape from the source you plan to use, _AND_ confirm that it records reasonably well. Don't assume that, because a cassette deck plays well, it will record equally well.)
  
 On the up-side, you certainly will find a lot of old cassette equipment on places like Craigslist and eBay - at least for now.


----------



## analogsurviver

ssrock64 said:


> I know this is a little past the time period we typically discuss on this thread, but I'm thinking about adding a relatively serious cassette section to my main setup. A number of the record labels I pay the most attention to have started issuing releases on cassette again, and it seems like people are starting to get pricing fatigue from the current vinyl revival and are beginning to turn to cheaper mediums again. Since laptop CD drives and dedicated CD players have gone somewhat out of fashion and cassettes have remained popular with underground and experimental musicians over the years, I think I should start getting ready for increased cassette popularity over the next five or ten years.
> 
> For those of you who were into high-end audio when cassettes were last popular, what are some brands or benchmark pieces of equipment I should scout for on Craigslist if I want to build a good cassette setup? I don't want anything integrated, since I enjoy my preamp and speaker amp too much right now to use something else.


 
 One definitely worth considering is Technics RS AZ 7. http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=8817
  
 It was one of the very last designs (from 1996 !!! ), it has amorphous head(s), electronics and automatic tape calibration system that will squeeze max out of any tape - you are not tied to one brand of tape for which you have calibrated the deck. Naka lovers - don't try to go against this one, if your unit is not 100 % functioning, you might well get a bloody nose... This is NOT the typical cassette sound you were familiar with back from the 80's, this thing can sound so good to be almost indistinguishable from the source. 
  
 Its drawbacks? Wow and flutter could have been a bit better ( but it is no slouch either in this department ) and, for best results, Type IV or metal tape is mandatory. 
 I have had great results with Fuji Type II tape also ( have to check the exact type ) - still next to indistinguishable from the source.
  
 It has extremely good dynamic range - with metal tape, it is capable of 22 kHz @-3 dB at the level of - 2dB ref 0dB VU - for all practical reasons, tape saturation will not be an issue.


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## ssrock64

Thanks for the very thorough advice, everyone, especially with the discussion of the medium's drawbacks. I don't intend for cassettes to replace CDs as my main medium of music, and I certainly don't expect to get the same reliable SQ that I would from digital mediums or from a good vinyl setup, but I do want a well-respected deck so that I can get the best I can out of the limited medium. I'm under no delusion that tapes will become a dominant part of the music industry again, but many of my favorite artists who typically release only on Bandcamp are also doing limited tape runs en lieu of a CD or vinyl release, since it's much cheaper for them to do so than to tie up their money for ten months waiting for vinyl to be pressed. A surprisingly large number of unsigned artists do small runs of relatively inexpensive tapes these days, and as a sucker for having a physical manifestation of my music, I prefer a CD, LP, or tape to a set of FLAC files. Most of those artists don't have access to world-class studios and probably originally record to MP3 because they don't know any better, so I don't think I would get that much benefit from something as highly regarded as the Dragon, but I'll look around for some solid mid-end gear from TEAC, Pioneer, Technics, and Nakamichi.


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## KeithEmo

ssrock64 said:


> Thanks for the very thorough advice, everyone, especially with the discussion of the medium's drawbacks. I don't intend for cassettes to replace CDs as my main medium of music, and I certainly don't expect to get the same reliable SQ that I would from digital mediums or from a good vinyl setup, but I do want a well-respected deck so that I can get the best I can out of the limited medium. I'm under no delusion that tapes will become a dominant part of the music industry again, but many of my favorite artists who typically release only on Bandcamp are also doing limited tape runs en lieu of a CD or vinyl release, since it's much cheaper for them to do so than to tie up their money for ten months waiting for vinyl to be pressed. A surprisingly large number of unsigned artists do small runs of relatively inexpensive tapes these days, and as a sucker for having a physical manifestation of my music, I prefer a CD, LP, or tape to a set of FLAC files. Most of those artists don't have access to world-class studios and probably originally record to MP3 because they don't know any better, so I don't think I would get that much benefit from something as highly regarded as the Dragon, but I'll look around for some solid mid-end gear from TEAC, Pioneer, Technics, and Nakamichi.


 
  
 I agree with almost all of what you said. The only thing that surprises me is your comment about tapes being "relatively inexpensive". Today, producing small runs of audio CDs as CD-R's has gotten _VERY_ cheap. (You can make CDs one at a time, in about five minutes each, on any home computer, and the blanks cost about 25 cents each so, if you're willing to print your own labels, and stick them on yourself, you can do them for about $1 each; or you can have CDs commercially produced, with nice labels, jewel cases, and jewel case booklets, for a few dollars each in quantities as small as a few hundred, and the lead time isn't bad at all. As a specific example, one well known duplicator will print you 100 audio CDs, with jewel cases, labels, and inserts, on a one week turnaround, for $2.60 each. It's hard to imagine cassettes being much cheaper than that.) 
  
 Also, assuming that they are mastering their content digitally, even an individually copied CD-R will retain the full quality of the original, while a cheaply produced cassette is likely to have even poorer audio quality than one produced on high quality replicating equipment. (I'm inclined to believe that, today, issuing music on cassette would be more of a "philosophical retro statement" than a well thought out decision in economy.... and, given the choice, if they're offering both, I'd go for the CD for lots of reasons.)
  
 Honestly, the only reason I can imagine for using cassettes is that either you already have a lot of cassettes with content that you like, or you have some ready source of content you like on cassette that isn't available in other formats.


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## Skylab

Goodwill sells mass quantities of cassettes for 25 cents each. They want $1 for horribly wrecked LPs, and $2 for used CDs. So cassettes are the cheapest way to buy whole albums of music by far. 

That said, cassette is the worst sounding pre-recorded medium there ever was. Even 8-track sounded better. It's not bad sounding, most of the time, but it's commercial cassettes varied from pretty good to awful. 

BUT - if you can buy good music you like on cassette, get a deck! I like having a cassette deck even though I rarely use mine.


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## ssrock64

Yeah, the general idea is to get a good deck so that when I happen to come across a good recording on cassette, I can actually enjoy it. Most of the time it'll be overkill, but I will know that I have something decent when the occasion arises.
  
 As for questions about the viability of cassettes as a modern medium in general, I can't answer for the fact that many of my artists go the cassette route instead of CD, but they simply do. When an artist on a small netlabel or a self-releaser on Bandcamp does a physical release these days, at least in the musical circles I'm running in, they are much more likely to release on cassette than on CD. And a cassette costs anywhere between 1/4 and 1/2 as much as a CD to the end consumer, too, so it seems to work for everybody. I don't claim any vast knowledge of the economics and culture behind that choice of format, but I know that I can't get a number of my favorite artists on CD and I _can_ get them on cassette.


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## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Goodwill sells mass quantities of cassettes for 25 cents each. They want $1 for horribly wrecked LPs, and $2 for used CDs. So cassettes are the cheapest way to buy whole albums of music by far.
> 
> That said, cassette is the worst sounding pre-recorded medium there ever was. Even 8-track sounded better. It's not bad sounding, most of the time, but it's commercial cassettes varied from pretty good to awful.
> 
> BUT - if you can buy good music you like on cassette, get a deck! I like having a cassette deck even though I rarely use mine.


 
  
 Yes - most of the LPs you find in GW are totally trashed.  That said - if you are persistent there are gems to be found.  In the last month or so I have found NM copies of Maynard Ferguson (conquistador), Dave Brubeck (greatest hits), and The Ramsey Lewis Trio (upendo ni pamoja).  Have also found near min copies of James Taylor (sweet baby james) - plastic shrink still in tack!  All of these for $1 each.


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## SpeakerBox

I might also mention that side two of the Ramsey Lewis vinyl is totally awesome if you are a Jazz fan!


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## jnorris

If you do look for a vintage cassette, look for one with a single cassette bay and Dolby B only. Cassette decks "jumped the shark" once Dolby C was introduced, and at about that time, manufacturers decided to stick two cassette bays on all their units (for "Dubbing"), as an enticement to buy what was by then really low-end junk.


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## analogsurviver

jnorris said:


> If you do look for a vintage cassette, look for one with a single cassette bay and Dolby B only. Cassette decks "jumped the shark" once Dolby C was introduced, and at about that time, manufacturers decided to stick two cassette bays on all their units (for "Dubbing"), as an enticement to buy what was by then really low-end junk.


 
  
 Generally, true.
  
 Technics did offer, in its latest generation of cassette decks, BOTH worlds. The dreaded two bay low-end junk version ( forgot the model) and a thoroughbred single tray hi-end machine - the RS -AZ 7 ( and to a slightly lesser degree, RS-AZ 6 ). This one has a GREAT Dolby C - and in "7", there is a rare feature of bypassing the playback tape bias filtering ( WITHOUT Dolby ,available during reproduction only, which is to say you can not listen to the full fidelity during monitoring; just like with 99.99% of all the decks out there.)
  
 "7" really comes to life during reproduction - and, IF you decide to go all the way, by adding outboard noise reduction in the form of two ( to allow monitoring during the recording ) Nakamichi High Com II noise reduction units. Then it becomes one of the most capable tape machines ever - reel to reel units included. You are unlikely to find anything that will challenge it in the bass; no studio reel to reel I have heard can deliver the kind of precision of response below 100 Hz that RS-AZ 7 with Naka High Com II noise reduction units can.


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## ssrock64

Perhaps I'm searching in all the wrong places, but I was looking for a general turntable thread and couldn't find one today, so I thought I'd turn here. Sorry if it's off-topic, but I figured vintage and vinyl go hand in hand, so I'd try my luck.
  
 In addition to obtaining a tape deck, which we've already discussed in full, I'm in dire need of an upgrade to my record player's cartridge and stylus, which right now is a low-end Shure unit because my old Grado gave out on me a few years ago and I never listened to vinyl enough at the time to justify spending good money to replace it. The turntable is a Technics SL-QD33, which requires a P-mount cartridge, and right now I'm looking mostly at the Shure M97xE or the Grado Prestige Black 1. Does anybody have experience with either of these or other recommendations to make? I prefer to shop around the $60-$150 mark, since this still isn't a super high-priority section of my setup.
  
 Edit: I've noticed that the M97xE isn't a P-mount, but I've read of people using it on the same model of turntable I own. Perhaps I have a conversion piece on the arm.


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## SirMarc

I have the same turntable as my back up. I have an at3482p installed and its surprisingly good for 20 bucks on amazon. I also have an at92e that I seem to remember liking less. I'll dig out the turntable and goof around with them and let you know.


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## ssrock64

sirmarc said:


> I have the same turntable as my back up. I have an at3482p installed and its surprisingly good for 20 bucks on amazon. I also have an at92e that I seem to remember liking less. I'll dig out the turntable and goof around with them and let you know.


 

 Thanks for doing that! I have a Shure Pro Track 6 on it right now, which I believe is out of production but may be a cousin of the M92E. At the moment I'm leaning most toward the Grado option, but that's mostly for lack of competition at this price point. Ortofon used to have some good P-mount cartridges, but apparently they've stopped making them now.


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## SirMarc

Just did a quick listen. The at3482p is amazing for the money (17 and change on amazon prime) I'm pretty impressed with this cart, good detail and bass. The at 92e isn't bad, but a little dead sounding. Reminds me of some shure carts. Get the 3482p, it's cheap enough that of you don't like it, it's no big deal...


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## SirMarc

Ssrock, if you really start getting into vinyl, I would recommend tracking down a vintage wood bodied table with a standard mount head shell. Drastically widens your cartridge options, and the mid level and up turntables from the 70's can sound amazing.


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## ssrock64

Yeah, I know I'm extremely limited by the P-mount and the bargain turntable. Only about ten percent of my collection is on vinyl, and most modern vinyl includes a digital download in addition to the physical LP, so it's still not very high priority. I'll see where this next cartridge takes me, and if it's not satisfactory I'll likely invest in a standard mount TT.


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## roadcykler

skylab said:


> Hard to say...but it won't be cheap. If I had to guess...in the neighborhood of $2K.


 
 Not far off. Final bid, *$2,228.07 + $85 for shipping.*


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## Skylab

Yup, that's about what his other similar pieces have gone for. And given what a mint unrestored unit plus restoration would cost for an SX-1250, it's not too bad.


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## JamesBr

speakerbox said:


> I might also mention that side two of the Ramsey Lewis vinyl is totally awesome if you are a Jazz fan!


 
 +1


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## henree

My Nad has a feature of BASS EQ. It is a button you push that gives great depth to the bass. Is there any other Vintage receiver makers that have this feature? It makes watching movies with my HE 400 a movie theater like experience.


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## Oregonian

henree said:


> My Nad has a feature of BASS EQ. It is a button you push that gives great depth to the bass. Is there any other Vintage receiver makers that have this feature? It makes watching movies with my HE 400 a movie theater like experience.


 

 Sounds like it acts like a loudness switch that most vintage amps have..............and yeah, I like me the loudness switch.  Big time.


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## henree

oregonian said:


> Sounds like it acts like a loudness switch that most vintage amps have..............and yeah, I like me the loudness switch.  Big time.


 
 Totally different affect than the Loudness button. The Bass Eq really taps into the bottom of the frequency very well with out bloating the midbass. I have the bass knob at 12:00. I personally never liked, or used the 'loudness' button. Too much of a compressed sound for my liking.


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## KeithEmo

henree said:


> Totally different affect than the Loudness button. The Bass Eq really taps into the bottom of the frequency very well with out bloating the midbass. I have the bass knob at 12:00. I personally never liked, or used the 'loudness' button. Too much of a compressed sound for my liking.


 
  
 The sensitivity of our ears to different frequencies at different levels has been pretty widely studied... and the "Fletcher Munsen loudness curve" that derives from it has been widely accepted for many years (I believe that relatively recent studies have modified it slightly, but, since very few recent products even offer the option, that's not terribly relevant). What is relevant is that the curve itself calls for a boost of both high and low frequencies, progressively increasing as the level decreases. In the old days (before DSP), the only way to do this was to use a special volume control potentiometer with an extra electrical tap on the resistance element which was attached to a network of resistors and capacitors. Even though the "target curve" for the process was agreed upon, most manufacturers actually provided a somewhat simplified version of it - which can be done with fewer parts -  and those simplified "loudness curves" vary considerably. Most notably, while boost to both low and high frequencies is called for, many "very simplified" versions only apply the bass boost. A lot of equipment even omits the special tapped potentiometer altogether, and simply applies a fixed boost when you flip the switch.
  
 There's also the issue that "proper" loudness compensation is technically related to SPL ("physical loudness"), but the "loudness compensation" in your equipment is only directly associated with the position of the volume knob. (Therefore, unless you actually calibrate the volume settings on your equipment to measured SPL in your room, and the loudness compensation in that equipment is also calibrated to that same reference, it isn't going to match up perfectly anyway.
  
 The bottom like - and the point of all this - is that the exact effect you get when you "turn loudness on" tends to vary widely between equipment.


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## Oregonian

henree said:


> Totally different affect than the Loudness button. The Bass Eq really taps into the bottom of the frequency very well with out bloating the midbass. I have the bass knob at 12:00. I personally never liked, or used the 'loudness' button. Too much of a compressed sound for my liking.


 

 Ah, thanks for the info.  Sounds cool!


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## Skylab

One of the thing I love about the SX-1980 is the dual-stage tone controls. Most bass tone controls have the "knee" of the curve too high. The lower bass boost on the 1980 boosts operates 50 Hz and below (which means even at max the boost doesn't extend at all past about 80 Hz). So its actually useful to me! The upper treble is also 10kHz and up, which I also occasionally find useful.


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## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> One of the thing I love about the SX-1980 is the dual-stage tone controls. Most bass tone controls have the "knee" of the curve too high. The lower bass boost on the 1980 boosts operates 50 Hz and below (which means even at max the boost doesn't extend at all past about 80 Hz). So its actually useful to me! The upper treble is also 10kHz and up, which I also occasionally find useful.


 
 Ya, the 1250 has adjustments for 50, 100, 10000, and 20000Hz. Use them all the time.


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## henree

Are there any modern Headphone amps that have that "Weight" to the sound that Vintage receivers have? I am trying to figure out which lane to go down exploring. Thre is something smooth and full bodied about the sound of a vintage receiver that I really like. But I also sometimes feel like I miss details that a modern headphone amp could bring. My Nad receiver has pre outs as well as tape in/out. Would it be possible to chain this receiver to the in/out of my matrix? Or would that be overkill? Does anyone here feel the same about modern vs vintage?


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## Oregonian

skylab said:


> One of the thing I love about the SX-1980 is the dual-stage tone controls. Most bass tone controls have the "knee" of the curve too high. The lower bass boost on the 1980 boosts operates 50 Hz and below (which means even at max the boost doesn't extend at all past about 80 Hz). So its actually useful to me! The upper treble is also 10kHz and up, which I also occasionally find useful.


 

 Seems most of the higher end Pioneers have this - my SX-1050, SA-9900 and Spec 1 preamp all have this fine tone control adjustment. 
  
 Good stuff............


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## ssrock64

henree said:


> Are there any modern Headphone amps that have that "Weight" to the sound that Vintage receivers have? I am trying to figure out which lane to go down exploring. Thre is something smooth and full bodied about the sound of a vintage receiver that I really like. But I also sometimes feel like I miss details that a modern headphone amp could bring. My Nad receiver has pre outs as well as tape in/out. Would it be possible to chain this receiver to the in/out of my matrix? Or would that be overkill? Does anyone here feel the same about modern vs vintage?


 

 Have you tried much modern tube equipment? A Bottlehead Crack with the HD650 is the closest I've gotten to the sound of a vintage receiver.


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## Mechans1

> I am not sure about weight specifically, but the sound of modern amps can be really good.  I think you should try one, preferably tube, to test the theory, on yourself.  The only one who needs to judge their value  is you.  I can tell you I own both, and tone, detail, imaging, etc. are some of the aspects of sound quality, I find from my dedicated tube amps.  I also have a vintage Fisher 400 a tube receiver from the late 50s-early 60s also makes me happy.  Obviously there is no single answer to your question.  If you have been using an older receiver you might want to audition a modern headphone amp and compare your own notes. (pun intended)


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## henree

mechans1 said:


>


 
 I have a Matrix as well as a tube/hybrid in the Little Dot +. They both are quite thin. I am thinking that since I use Planar phones (He -400). Maybe all tube modern amp ,would be a good direction to go in. I do find my Nad great for movie watching. It is not as musical as I would like though. My 1978 marantz is quite musical but has that normal noise floor that receivers have. While listening to older receivers. I always feel like I am missing information. I just need to find a good balance with good detail and full bodied musical presentation. I am leaning toward exploring vintage receivers. 
 For those that have dabbled in the modern head amps world. What do you feel comes closes to that vintage sound without sacrificing detail.


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## jnorris

I hate it when I don't take my own advice...
  
 The Mac 1900 whose amplifier section I've been using to power my headphones and a pair of Celestion SL6si speakers has been a real performer.  But, as happens to those of our persuasion, it was becoming commonplace, with prettier faces calling me.  I know I've opined in this forum that the Pioneer stuff from the 70's just wasn't as good as some vintage mavens would tout, but when I saw that shiny silver Pioneer SA-8500II at an estate sale, whose owner would accept a measly $60 for, I had to have it.  I got it home, plugged it in to make sure it worked, and replaced the Mac with the Pioneer and settled in for some listening.  Within 15 minutes, the Mac was put back.  The Pioneer was thin, shrill, completely 2 dimensional, and harsh on the ears.  Next time I'll know better.


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## PhoenixG

jnorris said:


> I hate it when I don't take my own advice...
> 
> The Mac 1900 whose amplifier section I've been using to power my headphones and a pair of Celestion SL6si speakers has been a real performer.  But, as happens to those of our persuasion, it was becoming commonplace, with prettier faces calling me.  I know I've opined in this forum that the Pioneer stuff from the 70's just wasn't as good as some vintage mavens would tout, but when I saw that shiny silver Pioneer SA-8500II at an estate sale, whose owner would accept a measly $60 for, I had to have it.  I got it home, plugged it in to make sure it worked, and replaced the Mac with the Pioneer and settled in for some listening.  Within 15 minutes, the Mac was put back.  The Pioneer was thin, shrill, completely 2 dimensional, and harsh on the ears.  Next time I'll know better.


 
 I had a Mac 1900 for a bit and it was nice. I obtained it in a sorry state and made a project out of getting it working 100% making it beautiful again.  I put blue gels over the meters and over the bulbs which really made them pop, fixed the tuning meter (which had ceased to function), cleaned everything, repainted the transformers, deoxit'd every possible item, and refinished the case. It was so pretty by the time I was done with it, but it didn't quite stand up to mcintosh separates or even my main systems and I wasn't looking to do a full recap and rebuild, so it found a new home.
  
 On a different note, this is pretty neat and unusual. If anyone in the seattle area gets this, dibs on a listening party.
 http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/5155554773.html


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## Oregonian

phoenixg said:


> I had a Mac 1900 for a bit and it was nice. I obtained it in a sorry state and made a project out of getting it working 100% making it beautiful again.  I put blue gels over the meters and over the bulbs which really made them pop, fixed the tuning meter (which had ceased to function), cleaned everything, repainted the transformers, deoxit'd every possible item, and refinished the case. It was so pretty by the time I was done with it, but it didn't quite stand up to mcintosh separates or even my main systems and I wasn't looking to do a full recap and rebuild, so it found a new home.
> 
> On a different note, this is pretty neat and unusual. If anyone in the seattle area gets this, dibs on a listening party.
> *http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/5155554773.html*


 
 Man, that is one of the holy grails of that era!  SilentOne has the G22000..............never even seen the 33000 for sale anywhere before.


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## roadcykler

I can't envision a situation where I'd be willing to pay that much for that, or any other receiver. Would I get almost $10,000 worth of enjoyment out of it? Sure, it would be cool to own one of those, but it would be more the uniqueness than anything else. Speakers don't know if they're getting 100 watts or 300 watts, not to mention how much music you could buy with the thousands of left over dollars after you buy a more reasonable priced amp/receiver.


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## Skylab

Yeah even I can't get my arms around that. I paid about $2,000 total for my completely restored SX-1980...and even that's a lot of scratch. I love it and it sounds great so I've never regretted it even for a second. But $10K for an unrestored vintage receiver? I can't go there no matter how good it is.


----------



## aamefford

I was just given a Harmon Kardon HK 3470. It looks to be roughly 2000 vintage, so not so vintage. Any experience with this unit out there? I'll get some time with it over the weekend hopefully. I'm interested in comments in the mean time.


----------



## PhoenixG

skylab said:


> Yeah even I can't get my arms around that. I paid about $2,000 total for my completely restored SX-1980...and even that's a lot of scratch. I love it and it sounds great so I've never regretted it even for a second. But $10K for an unrestored vintage receiver? I can't go there no matter how good it is.


 
 I think he can reasonably expect to get about $6k for it, which is still literally a boatload. It looks like the seller has been trying to sell it on and off for probably 3 years at this point. Since there are so few comps price wise, the seller is using a few fishy comps. One from classic audio (listed at 10k, sold maybe less, but they have a good reputation and were selling a cherry unit), and another that didn't sell from ebay (I can make a listing say anything I want, that doesn't mean that's what it's worth). Also, I usually take at least 15% off an ebay price to make comparisons to a local sale price. Ebay takes a biiiiig cut. I still have no plans to buy it, but it would be nice to listen to haha.
  
  


aamefford said:


> I was just given a Harmon Kardon HK 3470. It looks to be roughly 2000 vintage, so not so vintage. Any experience with this unit out there? I'll get some time with it over the weekend hopefully. I'm interested in comments in the mean time.


 
 That might be a little new for this thread by at least 10-ish years, but feel free to look through what people like and dislike here - maybe you'll see something similar.


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## jnorris

jnorris said:


> I hate it when I don't take my own advice...
> 
> The Mac 1900 whose amplifier section I've been using to power my headphones and a pair of Celestion SL6si speakers has been a real performer.  But, as happens to those of our persuasion, it was becoming commonplace, with prettier faces calling me.  I know I've opined in this forum that the Pioneer stuff from the 70's just wasn't as good as some vintage mavens would tout, but when I saw that shiny silver Pioneer SA-8500II at an estate sale, whose owner would accept a measly $60 for, I had to have it.  I got it home, plugged it in to make sure it worked, and replaced the Mac with the Pioneer and settled in for some listening.  Within 15 minutes, the Mac was put back.  The Pioneer was thin, shrill, completely 2 dimensional, and harsh on the ears.  Next time I'll know better.


 

 I may have been a bit hasty in my judgment of this old girl.  When used as an amp only (no preamp) I was hard pressed to tell the difference between it and the amp on the Mac.  It was clean, quiet, no hum, buzz or hiss.  With the preamp in the loop the hiss level rose and the sound was noticeably less open.  Of course, with the preamp in, all of the noisy pots and switches became an issue.


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> phoenixg said:
> 
> 
> > I had a Mac 1900 for a bit and it was nice. I obtained it in a sorry state and made a project out of getting it working 100% making it beautiful again.  I put blue gels over the meters and over the bulbs which really made them pop, fixed the tuning meter (which had ceased to function), cleaned everything, repainted the transformers, deoxit'd every possible item, and refinished the case. It was so pretty by the time I was done with it, but it didn't quite stand up to mcintosh separates or even my main systems and I wasn't looking to do a full recap and rebuild, so it found a new home.
> ...


 
 The Coup that almost was.::.
  
 Spring 2013, fellow member 'wotts' and I nearly nearly pulled off the coup of the year! Memory is a bit fuzzy at this writing, but as I recall, I had just purchased the lovely G-22000. Shortly after, he alerted me to a G-33000 that had just come up for sale back that way.
  
 My plan was to purchase the G-33000 and then sell the G-22000 to 'wotts.' I set about raising the cash and it sold...quickly! Had we been successful that would have been some kinda coup!


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## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I may have been a bit hasty in my judgment of this old girl.  When used as an amp only (no preamp) I was hard pressed to tell the difference between it and the amp on the Mac.  It was clean, quiet, no hum, buzz or hiss.  With the preamp in the loop the hiss level rose and the sound was noticeably less open.  Of course, with the preamp in, all of the noisy pots and switches became an issue.


 
  
 I hear you - as I mentioned before my 1250 sounded awful until I recapped and doused all the controls with DeoxIt.  From then on a different beast.


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## Terja

jnorris said:


> I may have been a bit hasty in my judgment of this old girl.  When used as an amp only (no preamp) I was hard pressed to tell the difference between it and the amp on the Mac.  It was clean, quiet, no hum, buzz or hiss.  With the preamp in the loop the hiss level rose and the sound was noticeably less open.  Of course, with the preamp in, all of the noisy pots and switches became an issue.


 
  
 \ Just have a note to add to this. This is pretty much what I found out about my Pioneer SA9500II. When I separated the amp section from the preamp I had not idea just what an incredible amp stage it was. The preamp was actually the main drawback even though together I still considered it a very good integrated. I now use the amp stage on the 9500II almost exclusively. If you have an integrated where you can separate the two stages out it's really worth finding out how each section sounds on it own ... you never know what you actually have in some of those vintage irons.


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## wotts

silent one said:


> The Coup that almost was.::.
> 
> Spring 2013, fellow member 'wotts' and I nearly nearly pulled off the coup of the year! Memory is a bit fuzzy at this writing, but as I recall, I had just purchased the lovely G-22000. Shortly after, he alerted me to a G-33000 that had just come up for sale back that way.
> 
> My plan was to purchase the G-33000 and then sell the G-22000 to 'wotts.' I set about raising the cash and it sold...quickly! Had we been successful that would have been some kinda coup!


 
  
 It was local to me. We missed it by an hour I think. I emailed the guy when I saw it and someone was on his way to pick it up - 3-400 miles too. Shame since it was only $2000ish.


----------



## PhoenixG

wotts said:


> It was local to me. We missed it by an hour I think. I emailed the guy when I saw it and someone was on his way to pick it up - 3-400 miles too. Shame since it was only $2000ish.


 
 I think the 1980 would be kicked to the curb in a heartbeat if a 33000 was up for $2k. 
 I mean, how could one not?


----------



## jnorris

terja said:


> \ Just have a note to add to this. This is pretty much what I found out about my Pioneer SA9500II. When I separated the amp section from the preamp I had not idea just what an incredible amp stage it was. The preamp was actually the main drawback even though together I still considered it a very good integrated. I now use the amp stage on the 9500II almost exclusively. If you have an integrated where you can separate the two stages out it's really worth finding out how each section sounds on it own ... you never know what you actually have in some of those vintage irons.


 
 I've been running without an active preamp stage on my main stereo for decades.  I was using a hollowed-out Hafler DH-101 which was basically a source switcher with a volume control.  Now I've got a Sumo Athena preamp that allows for the removal of the gain stage.  Whenever I insert an active preamp I can hear the degradation.


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> I think the 1980 would be kicked to the curb in a heartbeat if a 33000 was up for $2k.
> I mean, how could one not?




As much as I love my SX-1980, I basically agree. If one could choose between an unrestored 1980 or 33000 for $2K, or even if the 1980 were less, the 33000 is the way to go for sure. Not that it even necessarily sounds better, but the 33000 is more valuable, and an unrestored 1980 is just a repair job waiting to happen, since the power supply board on the 1980 is very prone to failure unless it's both restored and slightly modified by someone who knows what they are doing.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I've been running without an active preamp stage on my main stereo for decades.  I was using a hollowed-out Hafler DH-101 which was basically a source switcher with a volume control.  Now I've got a Sumo Athena preamp that allows for the removal of the gain stage.  Whenever I insert an active preamp I can hear the degradation.


 
  
 Sounds like you need a B1 buffer.  Designed by Nelson Pass himself:
  
 https://www.passdiy.com/project/preamplifiers/b1-buffer-preamp
  
 I just got mine up and running and agree with Dick Olsher's assessment that it is like a Windex treatment for your sound system:
  
 http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0708/first_watt_b1_preamplifier.htm
  
 One caution though - you will hear every flaw in your system!


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> Sounds like you need a B1 buffer.  Designed by Nelson Pass himself:
> 
> https://www.passdiy.com/project/preamplifiers/b1-buffer-preamp
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been around the block a few times on this subject with a number of systems and my conclusion is always the same:  the insertion of an active stage degrades the signal.  It may be a harmonious degradation such as expanded dynamics or enhanced equalization, or it may be just a closing down of space and depth, but it is still degradation.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I've been around the block a few times on this subject with a number of systems and my conclusion is always the same:  the insertion of an active stage degrades the signal.  It may be a harmonious degradation such as expanded dynamics or enhanced equalization, or it may be just a closing down of space and depth, but it is still degradation.


 
  
 Agree 100%.  Technically the B1 is active, has a gain of one, and provides impedance matching - so even that may not be to your liking.


----------



## JamesBr

jnorris said:


> I've been around the block a few times on this subject with a number of systems and my conclusion is always the same:  the insertion of an active stage degrades the signal.  It may be a harmonious degradation such as expanded dynamics or enhanced equalization, or it may be just a closing down of space and depth, but it is still degradation.


 
  
 True!Like you said for me if its harmonious its ok but technicaly you are right that it is still a degradation


----------



## MermaidMan

I just picked up a Fisher RS 1020 from a thrift store. Everything seemed to work fine in the store but I could only test if the headphone out worked with a cheap pair of old headphones they had laying in the store. Since I will be away from my cans for a few days, can anyone comment on what i should expect performance-wise? I paid $30 and it was in fair cosmetic shape, but i cleaned it up a good amount.


----------



## Mechans1

jamesbr said:


> True!Like you said for me if its harmonious its ok but technicaly you are right that it is still a degradation


 

 If  degradation means any change to the signal then yes, but I think of degrading as taking something good away from the signal.  Therefore I would not consider any and every change degrading, I guess that is obvious forgive me.


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> It was local to me. We missed it by an hour I think. I emailed the guy when I saw it and someone was on his way to pick it up - 3-400 miles too. Shame since it was only $2000ish.


 
 That we missed it by an hour had me kickin' cans up and down the street like a school kid cuttin' class..._"Now what?"_


----------



## Mechans1

Something will show up.  Maybe not instantly but down the road. I have noted that there is a revival of some sort for that kind of gear.  Wait for a that  good deal to show up.


----------



## KeithEmo

jnorris said:


> I've been running without an active preamp stage on my main stereo for decades.  I was using a hollowed-out Hafler DH-101 which was basically a source switcher with a volume control.  Now I've got a Sumo Athena preamp that allows for the removal of the gain stage.  Whenever I insert an active preamp I can hear the degradation.


 
  
 Quite true - however you have to consider the possibility that, in at least some specific situations (such as where you have long cables to drive or the next item in the signal chain has a low or variable input impedance),_ not_ adding an active stage can result in even _more_ signal degradation than adding one. One common example is "passive preamps" (a volume control). By inserting a potentiometer in the signal path, the source impedance seen by the next device - and the interconnecting cables leading to it - is raised. This can result in more hum and noise being introduced than would be by an active gain stage. To be strictly accurate, almost anything can introduce noise or distortion.
  
 I recall reading an article a very long time ago about a modification on a Dynaco power amplifier (remember those?) The modification entailed adding a switch that could be used to bypass one of the gain stages. However, when the modification was actually tested, it was found that the contact resistance of the switch actually produced measurably _MORE_ distortion than the transistor gain stage it was bypassing. (The distortion was very low either way, but bypassing the active stage made it worse rather than better.)


----------



## buson160man

Dynaco  Oh that brings back memories. I used to own a dynaco sca35 integrated amp. I believe it had a passive preamp stage. Mine was rebuilt with much better parts, It actually sounded pretty decent . I used to call it my pocket battleship amp. I remember taking it over to friends houses who were using  receivers and amazing them when they heard the dynaco which clearly sounded better than most of the receivers at the time. Alas my dynaco was stolen from me by a person I lent it to (obviously I did not know that person  as well as I thought) . He did not return my unit and moved A lesson well learned . I really liked that dyna unit oh well one of lifes lessons.


----------



## DaemonSire

What would a good price be for a Pioneer SX-780?  From the pictures, it looks like it is in very good physical condition.  Unfortunately I am not close to it so will need to have it shipped.
  
 The seller has a lot of positive feedback so no issues there.
  
 He said that it works great.  1 channel needed to be repaired and the bulbs were replaced.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## SpeakerBox

daemonsire said:


> What would a good price be for a Pioneer SX-780?  From the pictures, it looks like it is in very good physical condition.  Unfortunately I am not close to it so will need to have it shipped.
> 
> The seller has a lot of positive feedback so no issues there.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would say in the two to three hundred range.  With $250 being the sweet spot for a nice one.


----------



## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> I would say in the two to three hundred range.  With $250 being the sweet spot for a nice one.


 

 I would agree with that, though the whole market is always creeping up in value.


----------



## Skylab

For $250, an SX-780 better be in great cosmetic shape and work perfectly. They can be had for less, for sure. And if you can find one, either a 880 or 980 is a significant step up in build quality.


----------



## DaemonSire

Thanks for the advice everyone, that helps.
  
 Follow-up:  Any experience using it to drive the HE-6?  I plan on eventually getting the HE-6 and would like to use a vintage amp to drive it.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> *For $250, an SX-780 better be in great cosmetic shape and work perfectly.* They can be had for less, for sure. And if you can find one, either a 880 or 980 is a significant step up in build quality.


 

 Agreed.  Just saw this morning a SX-750 on CL for $75 that needed nothing.................almost tempted to buy it just because.


----------



## Oregonian

daemonsire said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone, that helps.
> 
> Follow-up:  Any experience using it to drive the HE-6?  I plan on eventually getting the HE-6 and would like to use a vintage amp to drive it.


 

 Where do we start..................yes, an HE-6 out of a vintage amp is a great match.  I ran it from the headphone out, then the HFM adapter box, and then straight out of the speaker taps and out of the taps is flat amazing. 
  
 Tried it on my Spec 1 & 2 combo, SX-1050, SA-9900 and SA8800 and loved it on all.


----------



## DaemonSire

oregonian said:


> Where do we start..................yes, an HE-6 out of a vintage amp is a great match.  I ran it from the headphone out, then the HFM adapter box, and then straight out of the speaker taps and out of the taps is flat amazing.
> 
> Tried it on my Spec 1 & 2 combo, SX-1050, SA-9900 and SA8800 and loved it on all.


 
 Great, thanks.
  
 I planned on running it straight off the taps, or building a Robinette Box if there was noise.  Good to hear that it should pair well.
  
 I also have a vintage Marantz 2245 that I plan on fixing up as well to use.  Always wanted a Pioneer 750/780 though.
  
 Would you say the 750 is better/worse than the 780?  I believe the 780's are more common and easier to find?


----------



## Oregonian

daemonsire said:


> Great, thanks.
> 
> I planned on running it straight off the taps, or building a Robinette Box if there was noise.  Good to hear that it should pair well.
> 
> ...


 

 Don't quote me but from what I once read on Audiokarma the 780 (most of the XX80 line is included) has a couple of unobtainium parts.  Not sure that is fact so might want to do research.   Skylab likely will contribute a better, more factual reply than mine so consider this a placeholder...............
  
 In Oregon the 750 is more plentiful from years of craigslist perusal.  I like the XX80 series as it has the power meters like my Spec 2 amp has - just a coolness factor.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah generally speaking people seem to slightly prefer the sound of the SX-x50 receivers over the x80 ones, but they actually sound very similar to me. In addition to my two SX-1980's, I have a 680 in my bedroom. Sounds nice with the little Infinity bookshelf speakers I use it with. It does background music duty only though. I had an SX-980 for a while and that's a terrific sounding receiver, kind of the place where the really good stuff starts.

If one could get an SX-750 for the same price as a 780, the 750 is the safer choice because of the parts issue, although if one buys a 780 for $150 or less, the whole parts issue isn't really relevant...it wouldn't be worth fixing it if the outputs blew anyway.


----------



## PhoenixG

I'm not sure I would buy one with an issue like "one channel needs repair" without knowing the scope of the problem. How it is broken becomes a big deal. When the price floor for one that works perfectly is so low, careful consideration has to go to repair costs compared to value. If you're really looking to spend the money on a pioneer, I'd hold out for the the 8xx or 9xx model. That's where they start using similar circuit designs to their flagship models and there is a big step up in quality. Because of the part similarities, I keep a spare 980 floating around my garage just in case anything ever happens to my 1980 and I need outputs (same parts, just not as many). You can occasionally find them for about the same price as the 7xx's and they are a much better value. Anything that old is going to need some attention, so aim to get one that has had a few parts replaced.


----------



## DaemonSire

Thanks again for the help.  Kind of on the fence if I should go for it or not.
  
  
 Quote:


phoenixg said:


> I'm not sure I would buy one with an issue like "one channel needs repair" without knowing the scope of the problem. How it is broken becomes a big deal. When the price floor for one that works perfectly is so low, careful consideration has to go to repair costs compared to value. If you're really looking to spend the money on a pioneer, I'd hold out for the the 8xx or 9xx model. That's where they start using similar circuit designs to their flagship models and there is a big step up in quality. Because of the part similarities, I keep a spare 980 floating around my garage just in case anything ever happens to my 1980 and I need outputs (same parts, just not as many). You can occasionally find them for about the same price as the 7xx's and they are a much better value. Anything that old is going to need some attention, so aim to get one that has had a few parts replaced.


 
  
 The channel was repaired and supposedly works great now, it doesn't need to be repaired.
  
 I asked about the repair and he said that a chip was replaced and it was $15..


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Agreed.  Just saw this morning a SX-750 on CL for $75 that needed nothing.................almost tempted to buy it just because.


 
  
 Granted I was looking at the recent selling prices for nice ones on eBay and it was around $250.  CL or Garage sale will be cheaper but harder to find.


----------



## Koolpep

Sorry to just barge in:
  
 Sansui AU-2200 in the house....
  
 With the HE-Adapter and @punit HE-6 it's pretty amazing via the speaker taps. That amp is golden (ah sorry silver). From the headphone out it drives the HD650 amazingly well. A very smooth and controlled sound and has plenty of juice to even drive the HE-400/560 to interesting volume levels until eventually distorting in the bass. That of course doesn't happen with the speaker taps.
  

  


 The indeed "golden era" of Sansui. Glad I got it for around $190. From 1973.
  
 It's only one year younger to me


----------



## bizkid

I have a Marantz 2230 in the basement. How is the headphone output on those old Marantz receivers?


----------



## SpeakerBox

bizkid said:


> I have a Marantz 2230 in the basement. How is the headphone output on those old Marantz receivers?


 
  
 Many people like them - I have yet to find one that sounded good to me via speakers or HPs, restored or not.


----------



## Mechans1

speakerbox said:


> Many people like them - I have yet to find one that sounded good to me via speakers or HPs, restored or not.


 

 I don't currently own a Marantz but had a rare version of one of their power amps at one time.  While it worked it was very, very nice indeed.  I ended it's life by ignoring the sticker on the back say that using more speakers than 2 at a time could cause fire etc. i.e. a very very low impedance to drive and it may catch fire.  It  was the first time I ever had to use our home extinguisher . 
 I can say that it's headphone amp is run off  the circuit from the receivers  power amp section as  used for  the speakers.  This is what I have learned reading this thread in fact, so I  counter BizKid's assessment and would urge  you to give it a try.
 P.S. It won't combust by using it's headphone feature.


----------



## Oregonian

I love vintage amps/receivers.
  
 That is all.  Carry on...............


----------



## Skylab

Amen, brother!!!! I'm listening to my beloved vintage rig right now as I type this and it's making Van Morrison sound just incredible.


----------



## gmask

I'm a total noob when it comes to receivers, I do remember my dad having a really cool setup growing up, it was the Kenwoods from what I can recall, but I don't know the model or anything. He sold it all off when we moved many years ago.

I just picked up some HE-500s and have been browsing the local Craigslist for the past hour looking at all the receivers. Just when I learn something about headphones a whole new world opens up for something currently totally alien to me... lol...

Guess I better keep reading and looking at the nice pictures.


----------



## Oregonian

gmask said:


> I'm a total noob when it comes to receivers, I do remember my dad having a really cool setup growing up, it was the Kenwoods from what I can recall, but I don't know the model or anything. He sold it all off when we moved many years ago.
> 
> I just picked up some HE-500s and have been browsing the local Craigslist for the past hour looking at all the receivers. Just when I learn something about headphones a whole new world opens up for something currently totally alien to me... lol...
> 
> Guess I better keep reading and looking at the nice pictures.


 

 Go over to audiokarma - that's the preeminent site for vintage stuff.  And if/when you find a good deal, post up here and we can give you feedback on the model and/or brand.  Lots of knowledgeable guys on this thread.


----------



## ssrock64

I know we've very briefly discussed some Sherwood units in the past, but it seems like vintage Sherwood is pretty commonly dismissed on this thread. However, I was recently offered a trade of a very well-restored unit from the brand that had some pretty good things said about it over on AK (can't recall the model right now and can't seem to find it in my email history), and it made me wonder whether there's any Sherwood stuff that has a good reputation in the vintage community. Has anybody had any good experience with vintage Sherwood integrateds?


----------



## richard51

i may purchase a  receiver hitachi sr 904 , some people here had something good to say about it ?


----------



## TomNC

@ssrock64
  
    I have read good things about Sherwood 8900A (tube-like sound?) and once bade for one on ebay but did not win. Based on my experience, good and bad, it would be nice if you are able to listen to a unit several times before purchase. I've bought 4 vintage receivers so far. After having them for extended periods, I am happy with two and have sold one and one to sell.
  
 If the price is right (ebay prices for Sherwood models are very reasonable as compared to other brands), I guess you risk little---you can sell it quite easily later if you does not like the sound signature.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Mechans1

tomnc said:


> @ssrock64
> 
> I have read good things about Sherwood 8900A (tube-like sound?) and once bade for one on ebay but did not win. Based on my experience, good and bad, it would be nice if you are able to listen to a unit several times before purchase. I've bought 4 vintage receivers so far. After having them for extended periods, I am happy with two and have sold one and one to sell.
> 
> ...


 

 I own several Sherwood Integrated amps and tuners from the "tube era"  they sound like tubes because they are.  It is a lot easier to get a tube integrated amps than their receivers . The S5000 era and a number of variants (late 1950s-early 60s).  Sherwood made a big beautiful tube receiver or two (models) before switching to SS.  If you want SS I only bought one and never got around to using it. They are an under rated brand but are not as good as some others of it's day either  such as Harmon Kardon's Citations or Marantz with his EL-34 amps a bit later.  My Dad had one so I have them for sentimental reasons.  The tuners however were top notch and if you can get one restored you are in for a treat of what over the air radio exists in the future.


----------



## TomNC

@Mechans1
  
     Thanks for your informative comments! I once wanted to buy a Fisher 500c. Though it was claimed to be a restored unit, the noise was too much to my taste, unlike my contemporary Little Dot MK iii which has clean and quiet background. That experience left me an expression that vintage tube receivers might need work more than I am willing to commit.


----------



## DaemonSire

tomnc said:


> @Mechans1
> 
> Thanks for your informative comments! I once wanted to buy a Fisher 500c. Though it was claimed to be a restored unit, the noise was too much to my taste, unlike my contemporary Little Dot MK iii which has clean and quiet background. That experience left me an expression that vintage tube receivers might need work more than I am willing to commit.


 
 Those Fisher 500c's are gorgeous.


----------



## richard51

this is the Hitachi sr 904.... Someone had impression of this big boy?


----------



## SpeakerBox

tomnc said:


> @ssrock64
> 
> I have read good things about Sherwood 8900A (tube-like sound?) and once bade for one on ebay but did not win. Based on my experience, good and bad, it would be nice if you are able to listen to a unit several times before purchase. I've bought 4 vintage receivers so far. After having them for extended periods, I am happy with two and have sold one and one to sell.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have an 8900A which has easily bested any vintage receiver I have had (except my SX1250).


----------



## punit

I recently picked up a 1980 Marantz PM 500 to drive my HE 6 from the speaker taps. THis is the best that I have ever heard HE 6 sound. Have tried AGD Master 9, AGD Master 2 (with M9 as pre), Rotel RB 1080 (with M9 as pre), Cayin A 70-T, Raganrok.


----------



## richard51

punit said:


> I recently picked up a 1980 Marantz PM 500 to drive my HE 6 from the speaker taps. THis is the best that I have ever heard HE 6 sound. Have tried AGD Master 9, AGD Master 2 (with M9 as pre), Rotel RB 1080 (with M9 as pre), Cayin A 70-T, Raganrok.


 

 very interesting...... I waited for hitachi sr 904.... some said that his sound is near marantz sound.... less costly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wanted to try the he 400 out of speakers tap.... I needed only an xlr cable  i think ....


----------



## bizkid

My bad,i had a 2215BL in my basement not the 2230. Sounds great so far. There's not much to find about the "BL" variant and i wonder what's the difference to the Standard 2215(B).
 The volume poti has problems and causes inbalance. There is no background hiss even with sensitive cans.
 I may go crazy but i prefer the Output of the Marantz to the vali (which is on sale).


----------



## SpeakerBox

bizkid said:


> My bad,i had a 2215BL in my basement not the 2230. Sounds great so far. There's not much to find about the "BL" variant and i wonder what's the difference to the Standard 2215(B).
> The volume poti has problems and causes inbalance. There is no background hiss even with sensitive cans.
> I may go crazy but i prefer the Output of the Marantz to the vali (which is on sale).


 
  
 I did have a 2215 (non-B) which has been the only Marantz vintage unit I have liked.  That unit sounded very good!


----------



## punit

> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 & as a bonus HD800 sounds very good from the HP out


----------



## mr.khali

I haven't posted on this thread forever but my Sanusi AU 5900 has been failing me so it was time to find another small amp for my desk.  I picked up a Kenwood KA 5500 today and so far she sounds great and I have power meters back in my life!!  It is my first Kenwood.


----------



## Oregonian

mr.khali said:


> I haven't posted on this thread forever but my Sanusi AU 5900 has been failing me so it was time to find another small amp for my desk.  I picked up a Kenwood KA 5500 today and so far she sounds great and I have power meters back in my life!!  It is my first Kenwood.


 

 Nice Kenny!  I've got the 5700 - it was my first vintage purchase.................nice sound these units have!


----------



## mr.khali

oregonian said:


> Nice Kenny!  I've got the 5700 - it was my first vintage purchase.................nice sound these units have!


 

 I see you are now a Pioneer man.  Although I really like the sound of this Kenwood nothing I have heard sounds better than the Pioneer SX980 I had for some time.  I haven't had anything with more that 80 watts per channel to compare however.  I would love to year the SX1980 or a TOTL Sansui amp one day.


----------



## Oregonian

mr.khali said:


> I see you are now a Pioneer man.  Although I really like the sound of this Kenwood nothing I have heard sounds better than the Pioneer SX980 I had for some time.  I haven't had anything with more that 80 watts per channel to compare however.  I would love to year the SX1980 or a TOTL Sansui amp one day.


 

 I have 8 vintage systems in use in various locations at home and work, and yes, primarily Pioneer.  I now have 5 Pioneer units that are 80wpc or above with the Spec rack system top of the heap at 250wpc rated (tho when bench tested it hit 309 before distorting).   The Spec drives my HD800 incredibly well as it does everything I plug into it, and out of the speaker taps with my HE-400 (and the HE-6 before it) is truly epic.  I feel the additional power, even though you don't "use it" does make a difference, at least to my ears.


----------



## richard51

oregonian said:


> I have 8 vintage systems in use in various locations at home and work, and yes, primarily Pioneer.  I now have 5 Pioneer units that are 80wpc or above with the Spec rack system top of the heap at 250wpc rated (tho when bench tested it hit 309 before distorting).   The Spec drives my HD800 incredibly well as it does everything I plug into it, and out of the speaker taps with my HE-400 (and the HE-6 before it) is truly epic.  I feel the additional power, even though you don't "use it" does make a difference, at least to my ears.


 

 youre so convincing... i hope my hitachi sr-904 will do the job.... (you cure my upgraditis disease when i read that you live very well with he 400 and Pioneer amp ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 thank you doctor!


----------



## SirMarc

Might go check out an SA-9500 this weekend. Any thoughts?


----------



## Skylab

The SA-9500 has a great reputation. So it's all about what condition it's in.


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks, looks almost new in the pics


----------



## SpeakerBox

Vintage Pioneer when properly restored is very hard to beat.


----------



## Hal Keenan

I have one. It was a workhorse for more that 30 years until I lucked into a Sansui 9090DB. It's 35 watts per side.


----------



## SirMarc

Ends up its a 2.5 hour ride to check it out. That's 5 hours in the car for a maybe, I'll keep looking. Pretty happy with my kr-7600 anyway...


----------



## richard51

Someone here know if the HITACHI sr-904 receiver shared common ground at the speakers out post ? thanks to you all for this interesting thread


----------



## newcolors

Hi guys! I recently acquired a Sansui 2000 solid state receiver and a technics SL 1600; I am now on the lookout for speakers and am checking out a pair of Sansui sp 2000 and a pair of Sansui S-930; what are your thoughts and or recommendations? 
Thank you!


----------



## dogwan

richard51 said:


> Someone here know if the HITACHI sr-904 receiver shared common ground at the speakers out post ? thanks to you all for this interesting thread


 
 Easy to find out. Throw a multi-meter on the 2 ground posts and measure for continuity. If meter beeps you have a shared ground.


----------



## Koolpep

Guys,
  
 I need your help.
  
 I have splashed out and got myself a nice vintage Sansui to complement my Sansui AU-2200 which I think is amazing.
  
 The model is this:
  
 Sansui - A-E970
  
 And it's a integrated amplifier with DAC....
  
 My question is: does anyone have any idea which DAC chip is inside? It sounds fantastic and I really love the sound but am very curious which chip I got in there. I opened it up but the PCB that houses the DAC chip is front facing (not readable) and I can't remove it without some major surgery which I am not confident enough to do. Don't want to screw up a great functioning system.
  
 I ordered a service manual from eBay but it will be weeks until it arrives, so if anyone with some insight knowledge can help, it would be highly appreciated.
  
 my new baby
  
 not my photo but shows the back
  
 not my photo - shows the back
  
 not my photo - full front
  
 The DAC has Optical and COAX inputs and takes 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz 16 bit.
  
 Any help highly appreciated.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## PhoenixG

newcolors said:


> Hi guys! I recently acquired a Sansui 2000 solid state receiver and a technics SL 1600; I am now on the lookout for speakers and am checking out a pair of Sansui sp 2000 and a pair of Sansui S-930; what are your thoughts and or recommendations?
> Thank you!


 
 I had about half a dozen pairs of sansui speakers. I really liked the SP-5500x model, but didn't care for some of the others. I found sansui to be kind of hit or miss with speakers, so definitely try the ones you want out before you buy. Be especially aware of the surrounds. Especially on the mids and tweeters, some surrounds were a kind of rubberized paper sort of material that tended to develop holes. Just as a bit of TLC, many of them have tone adjustors that get filthy and need some good deoxit on them before they'll sound right all the time.


----------



## Mechans1

My experience with same era speakers from several manufacturers is similar.  Much of the time it appeared as though they were competing with various odd tweeter and mid range horns.  The ordinary paper drivers were not anything better than ordinary cheap small magnet paper drivers.  There were notable exceptions from Panasonic weigh you can read about their foray into Beryllium drivers which are very special. There are always other exceptions, with some of the bigger Sansuis indeed, but I think you were better off bringing your own speakers into the system.


----------



## BobG55

_eBay seller has 358 transactions with 100% positive feedback.  I paid *$800.00 US*  Copy & paste of what was done/serviced/restoration : (it's a bit long, my apologies)_
  
  
*From DECADES AUDIO **we have **a NEAR MINT museum quality example of the absolute best receiver ever designed and produced, the FISHER 500c Wideband FM Multiplex Receiver.  This particular unit was a one owner piece completely serviced and ready for plug and play by Fisher Technician Greg Kruk, who has fantastic feedback from hundreds of vintage fisher customers.   

 The specs on the 500c are impressive. It's cost was about $390 in 1964, and Fisher considered the 500c as the "Industry Standard". It offers 33 RMS watts per channel, an exceptional FM tuner section with superb sensitivity, and a very colorful and layered audio reproduction with a beautiful true to life soundstage. *T*hese receivers were at the top of many audio reviews and still are to this day.*
  
*This Fisher 500c has been completely restored. **For long term reliability, several key parts were upgraded. The selenium rectifier has been replaced with a new silicon bridge rectifier. The low voltage power supply capacitor under the chassis was replaced. The 5.6k ohm resistor in the low voltage power supply was replaced with a 3.3k ohm as a modification to the output tube bias voltage, now in the -19v range vs -17v stock. The high voltage rectifiers were replaced with Fairchild fast recovery effect diodes/FREDS. (600v-3 amp cont./100 amp surge,70ns). All of the smaller electolytics were also replaced with fresh new stock including the 1uf electrolytic in the FM multiplex section. To preserve the original sound characteristics, the original factory EROFOL II coupling capacitors have been left intact. These are excellent HIGH quality German made metalized polyester capacitors that were installed on later production pieces. Each were tested and still remain at factory specifications. All of the original Mylar/Polyester capacitors including the multiplex have been replaced with HIGH QUALITY Sprague 225P "Filmite E" Polyester film & foil capacitors. The output section has been upgraded with 10 ohm 1/2 watt Vishay Dale resistors on the cathodes of each of the 7591 output tubes. In the event of a catastrophic output tube failure, these resistors will open rather than destroying an expensive output transformer. These are Ultra premium HIGH temperature stable military grade resistors, not the cheap carbon comp type used in many resto kits. Voltages are kept within a tight tolerance under HIGH heat conditions. Also a CL-90 inrush current limiter was installed "like a mini variac" on startup. The on/off switch, capacitors, and output tubes operate under much reduced stress during initial startup. After startup this part heats up as normal and then reads out to "ZERO" ohms. IT DOES NOT hinder performance in any way.*
*All 12ax7 tubes have been selected for their various characteristics and tonal qualities in their specific locations. All have been carefully selected to be free of microphonics, and have closely matching triodes with test results exceeding 100%. Included in these are brand new production/matched pairs of excellent 12ax7c9 tubes in the phase tone section, 12ax7wa/7025 premium LOW NOISE tubes in the phono section. Phase inverter tubes are matched and Sylvania made. The rest are a mix of Telefunken and Mullard tubes. (Multiplex section)*
*This 500c has been completely aligned by one of our leading technicians. All FM tuner tubes have been upgraded with HIGHLY screened tubes. FM performance is SUPERB and distant channels are received with ease.*
*This Fisher 500c is in "VERY NICE"condition. The chassis and transformers are in BEAUTIFUL shape The faceplate lettering is excellent, the dial glass is beautiful with all segments and numbering intact. All original knobs are in pristine condition and complete with their brass caps. The AC cord is original and has the Fisher logo on the plug end. Their is a small blemish to the chassis metal near the power transformer. This may clean up but we'll leave that to the new owner. All dial lamps and indicator lamps were upgraded to new long life versions.*
*This beautiful Fisher 500c receiver with all its upgrades is completely plug&play. All features, inputs, and controls work perfectly. I have listened to this 500c for the past several weeks and it continues to function and perform excellently. As with all vintage electronics we sell, this item is also being offered as is, all sales are final. This 500c will be extremely well packed, so bid with confidence. Here's your chance to own one of the cleanest and best sounding Fisher receivers you will ever find! Thanks for looking, from "Decades Audio"!*


----------



## TomNC

Really nice Fisher 500c. I had a look at this unit the other day on ebay. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## SpeakerBox

That is a real beauty.  Congrats Old Groucho!


----------



## BobG55

tomnc said:


> Really nice Fisher 500c. I had a look at this unit the other day on ebay. Looking forward to your impressions.


 

 Hi Tom,
  
 Thanks, it is a nice unit.  The only aspect that worried me somewhat was all of the restoration done to it.  I owned a 500C last year & had it serviced & once I got it back something about it just didn't quite sound the same any more and remembered moodyrn mentioning on a post that restoration of the 500C should be done by someone who really knows what they're doing.  So eventually I sold it at a personal & $ loss.  In this case I trust that the restoration was done properly, the seller is very forthcoming with "if for any reasons there are any problems don't hesitate to contact me ...." & he also sent me pdf files of the amp manual & service manual respectively.  All in all : aesthetically it appears to be fine, it's been serviced by a reputable 500C specialist/ technician & the $800 US price was unbelievably appealing.  
  
 So, I'll be posting my impressions as soon as I get the amp Tom.


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> That is a real beauty.  Congrats Old Groucho!


 

 Thank you SpeakerBox.  See my reply to TomNC above.  I just couldn't pass it up even though I'm basically broke right now.  
  
 I'll have some explaining to do with my wife when the amp gets here.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bobg55 said:


> Thank you SpeakerBox.  See my reply to TomNC above.  I just couldn't pass it up even though I'm basically broke right now.
> 
> I'll have some explaining to do with my wife when the amp gets here.


 
  
 Know the feeling - I am a veteran at trying to explain my way out of purchases to my dear wife.


----------



## BobG55

Also purchased this cabinet.  Some guy builds these for much less than older/ original & most times less than perfect looking cabinets for sale on eBay.


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you SpeakerBox.  See my reply to TomNC above.  I just couldn't pass it up even though I'm basically broke right now.
> ...


----------



## richard51

when you listen to your receiver amp ( mine is hitachi 904 ) how is the headphone out compared to the speakers out sound ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 i ask that because by now the headphone out of my Hitachi beat my headphone amp completely... and i wait now for the cable to try the speakers out and i ask myself will it be better ?


----------



## Oregonian

richard51 said:


> when you listen to your receiver amp ( mine is hitachi 904 ) how is the headphone out compared to the speakers out sound ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Headphone out is good........................but out of the taps it goes up a level or 3.   Glad to hear you're enjoying your foray into vintage!


----------



## Silent One

oregonian said:


> I love vintage amps/receivers.
> 
> That is all.  Carry on...............


 
  
  


skylab said:


> Amen, brother!!!! I'm listening to my beloved vintage rig right now as I type this and it's making Van Morrison sound just incredible.


 
 Indeed! 
  
 Gonna take my Sansui out of storage Labour Day weekend for 2 days and have a blast!


----------



## SirMarc

Hey guys, anyone have an idea what a Sansui 9090 that needs bulbs and a de-oxit treatment is worth? See one locally, but think he's asking too much.


----------



## wotts

silent one said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Gonna take my Sansui out of storage Labour Day weekend for 2 days and have a blast!


----------



## MermaidMan

Found a family owned Pioneer SX  990 in perfect working condition for 150...hopefully all goes well as my cousin recently spilled beer on my Yamaha A 760 and it caught fire...lol.


----------



## frahengeo

sirmarc said:


> Hey guys, anyone have an idea what a Sansui 9090 that needs bulbs and a de-oxit treatment is worth? See one locally, but think he's asking too much.


 
 Not sure if you can use this as a gauge...there is one that's been listed in my local CL for $600.  It's a unit that is all original (no rebuild/restore).  It's been listed for ~1 year.
  
 With that said, I think New Englanders are little tight with their money.
  
 I bought mine for $150.00 from the original owner, it had an issue with the driver board, but very easy fix.
  
 I think $300 - $350.00 is reasonable, but that's me.


----------



## SirMarc

frahengeo said:


> Not sure if you can use this as a gauge...there is one that's been listed in my local CL for $600.  It's a unit that is all original (no rebuild/restore).  It's been listed for ~1 year.
> 
> With that said, I think New Englanders are little tight with their money.
> 
> ...



Yeah, that's what they're asking here too. I know its a very highly regarded receiver, but that seems steep for an untouched unit to me. How do you like yours?


----------



## frahengeo

sirmarc said:


> Yeah, that's what they're asking here too. I know its a very highly regarded receiver, but that seems steep for an untouched unit to me. How do you like yours?


 
 It's just okay to me, but I love the looks of it.
  
 I tend to use my SX-1250 or G9000 as it sounds much more 'full' to me.  Plenty of folks over at AK swear by the 9090, so it's likely that it needs restoration work.  I have one other receiver being restored now, so I may get the 9090 done next.


----------



## SirMarc

Alot of people at AK consider it the best vintage receiver. That's what got me looking for one. Not sure I want to spend that much plus whatever it would cost me to get it restored.


----------



## Skylab

I had a stock 9090 for a while, and also a fully restored one. I liked the sound of the receiver quite a lot, and LOVED the look. But ultimately I personally preferred the sound of the SX-1250 and then later and for a long time now the SX-1980. But the 9090 sounds great. It's a little warmer than the Pioneer, which itself is maybe one shade warm of neutral. Less warm than the Marantz receivers I had, though (2275 and 2285). 

Changing the dial lamps on a 9090 is easy. I did it myself, and changed them to LEDs, because they are fuse type. Changing the function indicator lamps, though, is NOT easy. And the deoxit work on a 9090 also requires considerable disassembly. Just something to think about.


----------



## SirMarc

Damn Skylab, you're killing me lol. That's pretty much the sound I like. Think tube pre, ss amp like sound. I used to have a 2230 years ago and found it a bit too warm, and the pioneers I've heard in my opinion would benefit from a wee bit of warmth. The Kenwood kr-7600 almost fits the bill, nice highs, nice full warm mids, but the bass is a bit too loose and boomy. 
 Does the price seem excessive on the 9090? If its worth it, I'd do 500.


----------



## Skylab

I have not kept up with 9090 pricing. One that works perfectly except for lights and needing deoxit, $300-350 seems right to me, but maybe the 9090 has gone up in price in the last few years. I'm not sure. Always good to do a "completed listings" check on eBay to see what they actually sold for (and what they didn't sell for!)


----------



## frahengeo

By the way, a few months back there were a few listings on CL for a Sansui 9090 in various US cities.  The listing turned out to be a scam, and an AKer was swindled out of $50.00.  Can't remember the exact details of how the buyer paid for the down payment...
  
 The seller listed the classified under 'Jeff', and a few of us on AK, including myself, found the same listing in our local CL, and put out a 'buyer beware' on CL.
  
 Just a day or two ago, I've read that 'Jeff' has resurfaced again.  He will ask you to put down a small deposit to 'hold' the receiver as there will be many other 'interested buyers'.
  
 'Jeff' has also started listing other models and brands.
  
 Most of here, I assume, know the do's and don'ts of private sales, but I thought I'd put it out there...just in case.
  
 If this has already been mentioned, please disregard.  Buyer Beware.
  
 Adam


----------



## Skylab

I always meet people for Craigslist sales in public spaces. Much better way to go.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I was just given a near mint Pioneer SX750 by some friends.  Will be doing an extensive comparison between it and my Sherwood 8900A to see which I like best for HP use.  I am guessing I will end up keeping the Sherwood (I like the warmth) but want to make sure before I part with the Pioneer.


----------



## SirMarc

No worries guys. I'm 6 foot, 225lbs mostly muscle and I've been around the block a few times lol. This one appears to be at a shop around 45 minutes from my house. Don't think I'll go. Doubt they'd cut the price in half at a retail joint. I'll just keep my eye out for something cool...


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> I always meet people for Craigslist sales in public spaces. Much better way to go.



I usually go to their house with my tube dac and hd580's to see if I like it. Probably not the safest way to go, but at least then I get to hear it...


----------



## SirMarc

Its a shame about the Kenwood, it looks so cool and is in mint condition. The sound is so close to what I like, but the bass is just too boomy. Lower the bass a click and I lose too much mid bass. At low volume with loudness on it sounds superb. I would search out a 9600, but the unobtainium power packs scare me. From everything I read, it sounds like I'd love the sansui house sound. Ugh...


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> Its a shame about the Kenwood, it looks so cool and is in mint condition. The sound is so close to what I like, but the bass is just too boomy. Lower the bass a click and I lose too much mid bass. At low volume with loudness on it sounds superb. I would search out a 9600, but the unobtainium power packs scare me. From everything I read, it sounds like I'd love the sansui house sound. Ugh...


 
 I owned a KR-9600 for almost 15 years - it was my first vintage receiver and my first stereo ever that I didn't build myself. I found the sound to be kinda like what you're describing - very nice but the bass is just a little bit wallowy. Like it makes every woofer sound like it gets a few extra subsonic wumps out of every note. Maybe the house sound was underdamped (not the same as damping factor!). The sound was really good though, especially through the tuner. That was probably my second favorite part of it after the lovely meters. I would stare at those things for hours with the radio playing.
 I never had any problems with it except for one burnt out bulb. Also, I think regarding the power packs, as long as you run the right impedance speakers they are fairly solid. Worst case scenario, the part value on a 9600 is pretty high.
 If you're looking for a house sound like what you're describing with better controlled bass, try looking for a sony str-6065 (or 6120), Sansui G-series, or about anything Mcintosh.
  
 Coincidentally, my KR-9600 was replaced by my SX-1980, which is about to have the face-off of its life. There can only be one top dog in the house (wife's rules for marital harmony haha), and I've closed the deal on another monster. I really liked this one's 'little' brother when I had it, so I think the 1980 is probably going to be finding a new home in a few weeks after I make the long trek to pick up the 'new' unit. No spoilers yet, I don't want to jinx it since I haven't picked it up yet.


----------



## SirMarc

Wow man, you described the bass exactly like I'm hearing it. I've read on AK with the right speakers the 7600 and 9600 sound incredible, and I believe it, but the problem is I've heard my speakers, dahlquist dq-20's, amped right and the sound was sublime, so I'd rather replace the receiver.
 I looked at the Sony's, and love the design, but I'm afraid 60 Watts might not be enough for my speakers. I've seen the 60xx and 70xx series around, but never any 61xx's.
 The problem here is I love the look and build quality of the vintage stuff, but if I'm gonna spend close to, or over a 1000 bucks on something, it should really be a Rogue Audio Sphinx with a pair of nos Mullards. I don't know...
Good luck on the purchase, can't wait to hear how you make out


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have heard it said that the DQ20s are even better than the DQ10s  - true?


----------



## SirMarc

Couldn't tell you, I've never heard them. I've read that 10's image a bit better, but need a sub. The 20's don't, they have good solid deep bass. Very open and airy speakers, always been a favorite of mine


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> Wow man, you described the bass exactly like I'm hearing it. I've read on AK with the right speakers the 7600 and 9600 sound incredible, and I believe it, but the problem is I've heard my speakers, dahlquist dq-20's, amped right and the sound was sublime, so I'd rather replace the receiver.
> I looked at the Sony's, and love the design, but I'm afraid 60 Watts might not be enough for my speakers. I've seen the 60xx and 70xx series around, but never any 61xx's.
> The problem here is I love the look and build quality of the vintage stuff, but if I'm gonna spend close to, or over a 1000 bucks on something, it should really be a Rogue Audio Sphinx with a pair of nos Mullards. I don't know...
> Good luck on the purchase, can't wait to hear how you make out




I wouldn't discount 65w per side. I have a 6120 hooked up to some real hungry monster speakers and I can make it too loud to be in the same room. 65 good watts will knock down your art from the wall and make your dishes shake in the next room. I can do the same thing with a 6065. It won't make your house into a night club, but I doubt you'd be trashing your speakers like that. 
 I really liked both of them, but the 6120 (also 6200f but that's super rare ) was a tiny step up. People call them 'mini mcintosh's' because they have a similar sound and build quality. I think a patient person could get a 6065 for like $100, so it's not a bad risk to try one.


----------



## parbaked

phoenixg said:


> I wouldn't discount 65w per side. I have a 6120 hooked up to some real hungry monster speakers and I can make it too loud to be in the same room. 65 good watts will knock down your art from the wall and make your dishes shake in the next room.


 
 I notice you have to put your lamp on the floor so it doesn't get blown off the coffee table...smart!


----------



## SirMarc

I used to run the dahlquists with a mitsubishi dual monaural 150wpc amp back in the day and they were awesome. They were even more awesome with a spectral amp I had in the 90's. When I got my first big 7 channel receiver for home theater, I kept the speakers but sold off my components. Kind of kicking myself now lol, because now I can give a schiit about home theater and miss my old 2 channel gear...


----------



## SirMarc

Checked eBay history on the 9090. 600 isn't far off the mark. Maybe I'll go to the shop and offer 400 and go from there. I've been researching the hell out of the 9090 and it sounds like I'll love it. I'll keep you guys posted. Any other thoughts?


----------



## PhoenixG

parbaked said:


> I notice you have to put your lamp on the floor so it doesn't get blown off the coffee table...smart!


 
 That was from the day I brought them home. The dust hadn't settled yet haha. You'll notice the grills are still wrapped in paper leaning against a wall on the right side of the frame. Best speakers I've ever heard fullstop.


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> I used to run the dahlquists with a mitsubishi dual monaural 150wpc amp back in the day and they were awesome. They were even more awesome with a spectral amp I had in the 90's. When I got my first big 7 channel receiver for home theater, I kept the speakers but sold off my components. Kind of kicking myself now lol, because now I can give a schiit about home theater and miss my old 2 channel gear...


 
  
 Fell victim to the home theater thing too.  Sold off my Magneplanars (MG1s) and never should of.  Also had an SAE 400L and DB systems preamp (DB1) that I never should have let go of.  My Amber amp blew up on me so not much could be done there - but it sure sounded nice.


----------



## MermaidMan

I finally stopped trying to get lucky at thrift stores and broke down and bought a restored Pioneer Sx 990. Running my heavily modded HE400's out of just the headphone jack is simply stunning. My favorite thing in a headphone is when ALL the instruments have impact. It's a little hard to describe but I've previously only heard this effect with a speaker amped HE6...I think I'm done upgrading for a while.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Fell victim to the home theater thing too.  Sold off my Magneplanars (MG1s) and never should of.  Also had an SAE 400L and DB systems preamp (DB1) that I never should have let go of.  My Amber amp blew up on me so not much could be done there - but it sure sounded nice.



Even worse was the stuff I got rid of in the 80's because the new digital stuff looked so cool. Now the 80's stuff is butt ugly and we're all buying the 70's receivers again lol


----------



## richard51

i had the He 400 connected to Hitachi sr 904 (75 watts rms) , i will not buy any other headphone amp... except the perfect one... For 100 dollars the Hitachi blow my Ember amp, and probably any headphone amp under 1000...i had connect it to the headphone out... I wait for my cable but seriously i am skeptic because the sound now from the headphone out is so liquid and detailed...I am not sure that it is a good idea to try the speakers out....
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Hitachi was not a name  often appearing in this thread... But why? is the pioneer, marantz, sansui, are so good? My hitachi was tubelike sound with perfect  tigh bass and higher frequencies like silk...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Its the first time frankly that i am satisfied totally without reserve in this more than 2 years odyssey for the perfect sound ....Vintage is for Victory !


----------



## Oregonian

richard51 said:


> i had the He 400 connected to Hitachi sr 904 (75 watts rms) , i will not buy any other headphone amp... except the perfect one... For 100 dollars the Hitachi blow my Ember amp, and probably any headphone amp under 1000...i had connect it to the headphone out... I wait for my cable but seriously i am skeptic because the sound now from the headphone out is so liquid and detailed...I am not sure that it is a good idea to try the speakers out....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you found it met your expectations......................


----------



## PhoenixG

richard51 said:


> i had the He 400 connected to Hitachi sr 904 (75 watts rms) , i will not buy any other headphone amp... except the perfect one... For 100 dollars the Hitachi blow my Ember amp, and probably any headphone amp under 1000...i had connect it to the headphone out... I wait for my cable but seriously i am skeptic because the sound now from the headphone out is so liquid and detailed...I am not sure that it is a good idea to try the speakers out....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's awesome man! Moments like that are what this thread is for. Hopefully it will help you avoid the upgrading itch for a long time.


----------



## richard51

oregonian said:


> Glad you found it met your expectations......................


 

 i see that you have an Hitachi sr 804 ...... How do it compete with your other vintage amp ?


----------



## MermaidMan

Ugh. My enjoyment of the SX 990 was short lived. I got too excited to purchase a receiver that I agreed to meet a guy halfway to pick it up. Bad decision. The left channel keeps cutting out and giving me static, the midrange will randomly become hollow and echoey, and now the left channel doesn't work at all. I've cleaned all contacts with Deoxit and that helped the sound initially, but I fear the receiver is shot now. He listed the receiver as 'in perfect working condition' and assured me it was recently serviced at Magnetic Tape in Kentucky. Also, music continues to play even after the volume is turned all the way down, as well as a few seconds after the receiver is turned OFF. I have no idea where to even begin, or if it is even worth trying to save...Does anyone have any information that can help me? i loved the sound when it was working correctly, but now the issues haven't gone away.


----------



## captouch

mermaidman said:


> Ugh. My enjoyment of the SX 990 was short lived. I got too excited to purchase a receiver that I agreed to meet a guy halfway to pick it up. Bad decision. The left channel keeps cutting out and giving me static, the midrange will randomly become hollow and echoey, and now the left channel doesn't work at all. I've cleaned all contacts with Deoxit and that helped the sound initially, but I fear the receiver is shot now. He listed the receiver as 'in perfect working condition' and assured me it was recently serviced at Magnetic Tape in Kentucky. Also, music continues to play even after the volume is turned all the way down, as well as a few seconds after the receiver is turned OFF. I have no idea where to even begin, or if it is even worth trying to save...Does anyone have any information that can help me? i loved the sound when it was working correctly, but now the issues haven't gone away.




Music playing after you shut it off isn't necessarily an issue - many vintage receivers do this.

Have you tried to clean all the switches and selector knob contacts as well? The volume control is just one of typically many controls that might cause a channel to cut out. If the left channel can be brought back by fiddling with some of the controls, you likely still have dirty controls.

Left channel is also completely out through the headphone out?

Don't give up yet.


----------



## MermaidMan

I've gone through with deoxit twice pretty thoroughly and yes the left channel has completely stopped working. I also get fairly severe static when unplugging the headphones and other times it is random. I'll go back though after class tonight and see if that fixes it. Thanks for the encouragement!


----------



## Skylab

When you say you have cleaned with deoxit...you disassembled the unit so you can actually get the deoxit inside the switches and controls, yes?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Checked the speaker fuses?


----------



## richard51

i need some help... i had a cable xlr to connect to a speakers amp hitachi sr 904.... The 4 braids at the end  are wriiten right and left but the 2 others are written Eg and GS what that means?  where is the positive and negative ....That is the back of my amp...thanks        L-js L-eg R-js R-eg  how do i connect that ? i interupt some discussion here i realize, and apologize...


----------



## MermaidMan

Sooo...I went back through again with Deoxit and it seems to be working fine now. No static, channel loss, nothing. I must have missed something the first couple of times. Think it was the input selector knob...But anyways I am absolutely in LOVE with the synergy of my HE400's and the Pioneer, even on Slacker Radio I haven't skipped a song yet, and Slacker isn't the best quality!


----------



## richard51

i am very happy for you..... I had the he 400 too.....my problem is to connect the xlr cable


----------



## richard51

is there any problem if i connect the positive braid in the negative by mistake ?  my xlr had 4 braids two marked right and 2 marked left ... ?


----------



## Skylab

mermaidman said:


> Sooo...I went back through again with Deoxit and it seems to be working fine now. No static, channel loss, nothing. I must have missed something the first couple of times. Think it was the input selector knob...But anyways I am absolutely in LOVE with the synergy of my HE400's and the Pioneer, even on Slacker Radio I haven't skipped a song yet, and Slacker isn't the best quality!




Not surprised, but glad. The symptoms you described are almost always dirty controls. Good for you for getting them finally really cleaned!


----------



## richard51

is there a danger for the headphone if i connect the positive in the negative out  by error because i try to figure which of the four braids go negative or positive at the  speakers ouput of my hitachi amp ?


----------



## TomNC

@richard51
  
    Why take the risk? If you have a multi-meter, it only takes a couple mins to sort out the fires. Good luck.


----------



## Skylab

If you ONLY mix the positive and negative for the SAME channel, and they wires never touch each other, no risk of damage. 

HOWEVER, if you connect the two positives to one channel and the two negatives to another...then there is the possibility you could short the outputs. And in that case, given the age of these vintage amps, you might have killed it for all time. 

So I agree...get a multimeter and check to see which is which. Anyone serious about vintage gear should have a multimeter, if for no other reason that to check DC Offset periodically.


----------



## PhoenixG

skylab said:


> If you ONLY mix the positive and negative for the SAME channel, and they wires never touch each other, no risk of damage.
> 
> HOWEVER, if you connect the two positives to one channel and the two negatives to another...then there is the possibility you could short the outputs. And in that case, given the age of these vintage amps, you might have killed it for all time.
> 
> So I agree...get a multimeter and check to see which is which. Anyone serious about vintage gear should have a multimeter, if for no other reason that to check DC Offset periodically.


 
 Yeah, I've shorted an amp by trying to be too clever and it is just the worst. I had to replace like 4 parts to get it working again. Fortunately the PS blew before the outputs were damaged.


----------



## captouch

richard51 said:


> i need some help... i had a cable xlr to connect to a speakers amp hitachi sr 904.... The 4 braids at the end  are wriiten right and left but the 2 others are written Eg and GS what that means?  where is the positive and negative ....That is the back of my amp...thanks        L-js L-eg R-js R-eg  how do i connect that ? i interupt some discussion here i realize, and apologize...




I suspect the s is for signal and g is for ground, so you have a left signal and ground and right signal and ground.

If that's the case, then L-js would go to the left red speaker out, L-eg would go to the left black speaker out, R-js to the right red speaker out, and R-eg to the right black speaker out.

It may be safer to probe/ohm it out if you have a DMM, but assuming the left and right labels are correct.
, the worst thing you could have is a polarity/phase issue if you connect it wrong between positive and ground and you'd hear it if that happened.

Remember to go easy on the volume know and start at min and increase slowly. You don't want to blow your headphones.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!


----------



## richard51

captouch said:


> I suspect the s is for signal and g is for ground, so you have a left signal and ground and right signal and ground.
> 
> If that's the case, then L-js would go to the left red speaker out, L-eg would go to the left black speaker out, R-js to the right red speaker out, and R-eg to the right black speaker out.
> 
> ...


 

 thank you very much for your help ... Problem solved  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 thanks to all of you and particularly to you


----------



## richard51

dear vintage receiver lovers.... I am one of your pack now.... the hitachi headphone out was very good but the speakers out is a great progress towards a more 3 body sound....i am glad that i had listen to some of you... Thanks to all ... By the way like you said all the speakers amp out is a notch above most mid tiers
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  headphone amp ....


----------



## richard51

anybody here had opinion about hitachi receiver ? i own the sr 904... silk sound , bass very good...high exquisite without any harsh...but i dont have any other receiver to compare..... My first is so good i am not to excited to change that one..


----------



## JamesBr

richard51 said:


> anybody here had opinion about hitachi receiver ? i own the sr 904... silk sound , bass very good...high exquisite without any harsh...but i dont have any other receiver to compare..... My first is so good i am not to excited to change that one..


 
 Why change then


----------



## richard51

jamesbr said:


> Why change then


 

 i will try the microztl of david berning in one years from now.... The hitachi is so good... i am no more sure that the superiority will be complete or just sidegrade.... Its impossible to say...if not experienced.... But the Hitachi receiver annihilate my others amps experience....


----------



## richard51

my hitachi lost  slowly the right canal... for some minute and the canal return ..... a deoxit case? or what?


----------



## captouch

richard51 said:


> my hitachi lost  slowly the right canal... for some minute and the canal return ..... a deoxit case? or what?


 
  
 Yes, most likely.  Try to DeOxit the volume pot as well as all other pots (tone controls, balance, etc), switches, selector controls, etc - exercise each control many times after you spray the contacts with DeOxit.  
  
 Also, make sure you allow some time for DeOxit to dry before you power the unit back up.


----------



## richard51

captouch said:


> Yes, most likely.  Try to DeOxit the volume pot as well as all other pots (tone controls, balance, etc), switches, selector controls, etc - exercise each control many times after you spray the contacts with DeOxit.
> 
> Also, make sure you allow some time for DeOxit to dry before you power the unit back up.


 

 thanks very much for your kind advise


----------



## SirMarc

OK, I checked out the 9090. Ends up I was doing a job the next town over, so I went to look at it. Cosmetically its in fair shape, but should clean up pretty nice. 2 bulbs are out, but the person they bought it from taped 3 bulbs to the case. They didn't have any speakers to hook up so couldn't hear it. I checked the DC offset and it was about 15-16 mv both sides, so not bad. I think I can get it for 350-400, which is less than they are going for on the bay. I'm gonna run back tomorrow with my dac and 580's and see how it sounds. Anything else I should look out for? What do you guys think?


----------



## richard51

captouch said:


> Yes, most likely.  Try to DeOxit the volume pot as well as all other pots (tone controls, balance, etc), switches, selector controls, etc - exercise each control many times after you spray the contacts with DeOxit.
> 
> Also, make sure you allow some time for DeOxit to dry before you power the unit back up.


 

 is it necessary to spray the deoxit  on the knobs and volume pot after  unscrewing the frame ? or is it possible to spray it on the exterior without unscrewing the frame also ? its a bit complicate to deassembly all this thing..


----------



## SpeakerBox

Almost always some dis-assembly is required.  You need to spray the DeoxIt directly into the openings in the switches and pots.  I have the whole front off of a Pioneer SX-3900 right now doing exactly that.


----------



## captouch

richard51 said:


> is it necessary to spray the deoxit  on the knobs and volume pot after  unscrewing the frame ? or is it possible to spray it on the exterior without unscrewing the frame also ? its a bit complicate to deassembly all this thing..




Check this guide here - should give you all the info you need to know, but agree with previous poster that some disassembly is almost always required:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207005


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> I used to run the dahlquists with a mitsubishi dual monaural 150wpc amp back in the day and they were awesome. They were even more awesome with a spectral amp I had in the 90's. When I got my first big 7 channel receiver for home theater, I kept the speakers but sold off my components. Kind of kicking myself now lol, because now I can give a schiit about home theater and miss my old 2 channel gear...


 

 A friend of mine used to have a pair  of dq10s. They really were damn nice sounding. Very open and spacious sounding . He was using a paragon preamp (remember those) and later really upped the ante with a berning tf-10 (that was a really great preamp and had three outstanding phono inputs) preamp . He was using a hafler 500 with the dq 10s. Later he moved to a pair of apogee scintillas which were a really tough load . ! believe the impedance dropped to 1ohm on those. He moved onto lazarus amps (no longer around) . He was using subs with both speakers. My friend later cut out the load resistor on the scintillas because it made he more open sounding. The impedance on them dropped to a half ohm. The lazarus amps drove them but he had to use them in ab configuration instead of class a which was only 50 watts. The amp did not have enough power in class a and simply chirped in that mode.
    Those were fun days back then.


----------



## SpeakerBox

A friend of mine had DQ10s back in the 70s.  I loved the sound of those things and if I can ever get my hands on a pair I will.


----------



## SirMarc

You guys would probably love the dq-20's


----------



## SirMarc

I just brought home the 9090. Talked the Guy down to 380! I just took off the cover and my god the transformer is huge! Its bigger than my tube dac lol. Wish me luck with cleaning the controls and changing the meter lamp. This does not look fun...


----------



## SirMarc

Crap, changing the meter lamp is above my pay grade. There's absolutely no slack in the wiring. That sucks, all other bulbs are good. I'd rather have both meter lamps out than just one...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Seems like you would just remove the screws holding the white plastic meter assemblies in place.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Seems like you would just remove the screws holding the white plastic meter assemblies in place.



I did that lol, problem is, you can only pull it out an inch or so and looking in there I'm no sure where the bulb would go. Damn, this is why I generally buy these things at least cleaned up with bulbs. I'm an electro-mechanical tech, so I know which end of a screw driver to hold lol, but this is ridiculous. I can't even get to the pots without removing all the boards. Maybe I should have listened to Skylab...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Bummer!


----------



## SirMarc

All good. Just got off the phone with a well known AK tech who's gonna do a full on restoration for a very respectable price...


----------



## SirMarc

Kind of excited. Even if I don't love it, for what I paid and what this guy is gonna charge me, I could make money if I sell it later


----------



## richard51

finally i choose the headphone out of my Hitachi sr-904....More headroom for the adjusment of the volume pot....And the headphone out is almost on par with the speakers out...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My Ember was a very good amp but cannot compete with the power of the Hitachi...The Ember has all  correct except this magnificent more realistic carnal sensual 3-d denser and detailed sound....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 receiver power amp is the route to go  for planars...


----------



## Skylab

The 9090 is worthy of a full restoration, for sure. That said, which meter has the lamp out? It's been a while since I had the 9090, but aren't the meter lamps fuse-style? Those are very easy to replace just use needle-nose pliers to pull out the old one and put in the new one.


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> The 9090 is worthy of a full restoration, for sure. That said, which meter has the lamp out? It's been a while since I had the 9090, but aren't the meter lamps fuse-style? Those are very easy to replace just use needle-nose pliers to pull out the old one and put in the new one.



Its the power meters. I had it all apart and as far as I could tell the bulbs were internal. I gave up and asked around at AK for a local reputable tech. Found a guy around an hour away and spoke to him on the phone. He's going to do a full on restoration inside and out. Should be dropping it off within the next couple of days. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## AudioArby

sirmarc said:


> You guys would probably love the dq-20's



I have a pair of DQ-20s hooked up to my Yamaha CR-1020. I also have an Infiniti Sub hooked up for the bottom end. Sounds great. The highs and mids on the DQ-20 are EXCELLENT. Hope to get a higher power amp as the Dahlquists LOVE power.


----------



## SirMarc

audioarby said:


> I have a pair of DQ-20s hooked up to my Yamaha CR-1020. I also have an Infiniti Sub hooked up for the bottom end. Sounds great. The highs and mids on the DQ-20 are EXCELLENT. Hope to get a higher power amp as the Dahlquists LOVE power.



Take them apart and check your woofer surrounds. They're probably dry rotted. I sent them in to Regnar years ago to be re-foamed and when I got them back no need for a sub. Bass is excellent.
When I used to run them with a 150wpc dual monaural Mitsubishi amp back in the day I could shake stuff off the walls...


----------



## AudioArby

sirmarc said:


> Take them apart and check your woofer surrounds. They're probably dry rotted. I sent them in to Regnar years ago to be re-foamed and when I got them back no need for a sub. Bass is excellent.



The problem is they are in a big basement and the space is too big for them. I'm not sure.if Regnar is still in business and while the surrounds are still ok I've plenty of experience dojng them myself. Rick Cobb has surrounds for them. They are the same as the Advent surrounds.


----------



## SirMarc

audioarby said:


> The problem is they are in a big basement and the space is too big for them. I'm not sure.if Regnar is still in business and while the surrounds are still ok I've plenty of experience dojng them myself. Rick Cobb has surrounds for them. They are the same as the Advent surrounds.



That's funny, I'm getting rid of my Kenwood kr-7600, same wattage as the Yamaha, because there's too much bass. Maybe check out a 7600 or if you can find one a 9600 Kenwood. They have very nice highs and warm midrange, but the bass is just too much for me.


----------



## AudioArby

sirmarc said:


> That's funny, I'm getting rid of my Kenwood kr-7600, same wattage as the Yamaha, because there's too much bass. Maybe check out a 7600 or if you can find one a 9600 Kenwood. They have very nice highs and warm midrange, but the bass is just too much for me.




Receivers and speaker synergy is important. My Realistic STA-2000D sounded way too bassy with a pair of HPM-700 speakers (which sound FANTASTIC with my Sansui 771) but is really great matched with Realistic Mach 1 speakers in my garage. But Realistic (Radio Shack) paired and sold them together as a matched system.


----------



## pedalhead

Slightly random question here, guys... Does anyone have any experience of using a nice vintage amp to drive electrostatic headphones via an exciter like the Woo Wee?  I'm working on a major headphone upgrade and tempted by Stax 009 from PJ, but I wouldn't be able to afford a top end amp for a few years.  I'm wondering if the likes of the Woo Wee hooked up to my Luxman R1120 might do the Stax's justice enough in the meantime.  Any thoughts?  Cheers.


----------



## BobG55

​
 



  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Got my 500C today.  These are the pictures from eBay.  The amp is in impeccable shape and has been restored (copy & paste from eBay add) : *This particular unit was a one owner piece completely serviced and ready for plug and play by Fisher Technician Greg Kruk, who has fantastic feedback from hundreds of vintage fisher customers.   *
  
 I had a 500C about 1.5 yr ago and it needed to be serviced so I brought it to a guy who had done a good job on my KA-8006.  Needless to say he didn't do as well with the Fisher and I was truly disappointed not to mention frustrated.  The amp after restoration had lost it's unique sound and depth, so I sold it for next to nothing.  Periodically over the past year I kept checking a few sites, one of them being eBay.  Lo & behold a couple of weeks ago I struck gold.  Not only did I find one but it's in perfect shape, has been restored by an experienced Fisher technician and it sounds great.  Also, the guy whom I dealt with is a super individual & has repeatedly told me not to hesitate in contacting him if anything (God forbid) happens or if I need assistance with the amp.  Oh, I didn't mention the price : $800 US + s&h +customs (I'm in Canada) but even so, the price was incredible considering the shape the amp is in both aesthetically and technically.  It sounds so smooth, deep & rich yet detailed & the main reason I wanted another Fisher 500C : it was & is again today after listening to it for the past few hours, *the best amp with my HD650s*.  They were made for each other.  The HD650 opens up to it's full potential with this amp, even better and I will add *much *better than my GS-X MK2.  I love the sound of the HD650 when it's driven to it's full potential, I can't describe it, it's almost surreal.  The 500C & the HD650 were made for each other in my estimation and taste.  It's like Ginger Rogers & Fred Astaire, they just go together.  I listened to a few tracks with the HD800 and they sound harsh after a while.  The HD600 is better but the HD650 is perfect.  If anyone is interested in reading which restorations were made to my 500C here's a link (from the eBay sales ad.) :
  
  
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/252063034068?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## richard51

bobg55 said:


> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 wow what a testimony..... incredible.... the comparison with the GS-X mk2 is convincing.... oufff


----------



## SirMarc

Looks like I need a new tech to refurbish my 9090. Do you guys know of anyone reputable in the NJ area?


----------



## BobG55

sirmarc said:


> Looks like I need a new tech to refurbish my 9090. Do you guys know of anyone reputable in the NJ area?


 

 Sorry, really wish I could help you.  I live in Nova Scotia, Canada and the guy who restored my KA-8006 (successfully) & Fisher 500C (unsuccessfully) is in Ottawa where I used to live over 3 years ago. (I had the Fisher restored by him while visiting family in Ottawa last year.)  Hope you find one and hopefully a good technician at that.


----------



## SirMarc

bobg55 said:


> Sorry, really wish I could help you.  I live in Nova Scotia, Canada and the guy who restored my KA-8006 (successfully) & Fisher 500C (unsuccessfully) is in Ottawa where I used to live over 3 years ago. (I had the Fisher restored by him while visiting family in Ottawa last year.)  Hope you find one and hopefully a good technician at that.



Yeah me too. Congrats on the fisher, that's a really nice receiver. I actually had one of those I pulled out of my grandparents console system when I was a kid. At the time I thought it sounded like crap and threw it out. I'm sure it just needed tubes and a cleaning, but who knew at like 16-17 years old. Still kicking myself for that one lol


----------



## TomNC

@Old Groucho
  
     Congratulations on scoring a wonderful 500c. Considering how hard it is to select a good headphone amp under $1500, getting a great unit restored vintage gear like the 500c, good for not only headphones but also speakers, remains a sensible choice.
  
     I also very much enjoy my HD650. Properly driven (mine with a MAC 4100), they produce smooth sound without being muddy or too detailed. My recent experience is that a good DAC like Gungnir Multibit can also greatly lift the "veil" of the HD650, contributing to their improved performance.


----------



## BobG55

tomnc said:


> @Old Groucho
> 
> Congratulations on scoring a wonderful 500c. Considering how hard it is to select a good headphone amp under $1500, getting a great unit restored vintage gear like the 500c, good for not only headphones but also speakers, remains a sensible choice.
> 
> I also very much enjoy my HD650. Properly driven (mine with a MAC 4100), they produce smooth sound without being muddy or too detailed. My recent experience is that a good DAC like Gungnir Multibit can also greatly lift the "veil" of the HD650, contributing to their improved performance.


 

 Thanks TomNC.  I have a somewhat decent DAC, PS Audio NuWave & waiting for a used one I bought a few days ago; it's a  Bryston BDA-1 which I got for a very good price.  I know the BDA-1 is an older model & technology but I listen to CDs & not computer file music.  From what I've read the BDA-1 via coaxial s/pdif sound is excellent.  That's what I use with my CD/SACD player.  On the other hand the USB on the BDA-1 has received poor reviews but since I won't be using it I decided to go ahead & buy the DAC for my needs and what I can afford.  As of today, my wallet needs a major rest.  Last I checked, it contained nothing more than cobwebs. BTW I can guarantee you that there is no veil whatsoever w/the 500C/HD650 combination.


----------



## Skylab

Congrats, Old Groucho! Classic Fisher tube gear is just great, great stuff.


----------



## BobG55

skylab said:


> Congrats, Old Groucho! Classic Fisher tube gear is just great, great stuff.


 

 Thanks Skylab, I appreciate this.  The music sounds so freakin' great, it's truly an enjoyable experience.  I'm presently listening to the album Kamakiriad by Donald Fagen and there's nothing missing, it's so full, so detailed, lush and I just remembered the HD650 is also knocked for it's (supposedly) lack of sub bass.  Well, the sub bass ain't lacking to these ears right now, so here's another HD650 myth up the creek; 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and the bass is at mid point only on the amp.  You are absolutely right Skylab & to quote you :
  
_*"Classic Fisher tube gear is just great, great stuff."*__* -Skylab, Sep. 9th, 2015, 10:45 Atlantic time *_


----------



## BobG55

BTW everybody, don't look now but we're about to get to the 1,000 page milestone on this thread


----------



## Oregonian

sirmarc said:


> Looks like I need a new tech to refurbish my 9090. Do you guys know of anyone reputable in the NJ area?


 
  
 Have you posted up on Audiokarma?  I know there are a few well known and trusted techs over there. 
  
 Hope you find a good one!


----------



## SirMarc

I did, and I had it set up, but the guy flaked on me. It was the weirdest thing. We talked on the phone for over an hour and I was gonna drive it over to his house on Sunday. That morning he said he couldn't do it that day and I haven't heard from him since. I've sent a few emails and even called and nothing. I've got a few I'm going to contact, but nobody that close to me unfortunately. Figured I'd try here too...


----------



## Wingtip

Finally got my Rotel RX-1603 back from a complete restoration, but she's too big for my audio shelf! I parked her on the desk for now. She makes my LCD-3 sing.


----------



## Skylab

Wow that looks awesome WingTip!


----------



## BobG55

wingtip said:


> Finally got my Rotel RX-1603 back from a complete restoration, but she's too big for my audio shelf! I parked her on the desk for now. She makes my LCD-3 sing.


 
 Very impressive looking amp Wingtip.  Congratulations.  Man those vintage amps look great.


----------



## Oregonian

wingtip said:


> Finally got my Rotel RX-1603 back from a complete restoration, but she's too big for my audio shelf! I parked her on the desk for now. She makes my LCD-3 sing.


 
  
 That is a BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Lovely..............what is the WPC on that monster?


----------



## Wingtip

Oregonian, the Rotel RX-1603 was rated at 180 wpc, and she actually puts out a little more than that. There are 330 ohm resistors between the amp output and each of the headphone jacks.


----------



## BobG55

Congratulations *Wingtip*, you established the thread milestone :
  


celebrating  -  pg 1,000 on this thread.


----------



## DaemonSire

wingtip said:


> Finally got my Rotel RX-1603 back from a complete restoration, but she's too big for my audio shelf! I parked her on the desk for now. She makes my LCD-3 sing.


 
  
 Gorgeous!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice Rotel, Wingtip! And congrats to Old Groucho on the 500C!


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> Very nice Rotel, Wingtip! And congrats to Old Groucho on the 500C!


 

 Thank you SpeakerBox.  The sound is out of this world.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bobg55 said:


> Thank you SpeakerBox.  The sound is out of this world.


 
  
 I want one!


----------



## MIKELAP

parbaked said:


> phoenixg said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't discount 65w per side. I have a 6120 hooked up to some real hungry monster speakers and I can make it too loud to be in the same room. 65 good watts will knock down your art from the wall and make your dishes shake in the next room.
> ...


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you SpeakerBox.  The sound is out of this world.
> ...


 

 Right now on eBay, there are a bunch of them.  Some are restored, some not but most of those are in working condition. Hope you _do _find one SpeakerBox.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I will eventually.


----------



## PhoenixG

mikelap said:


>


 
 That made me smile. Thanks Mike. Also, congrats to WIngtip and Groucho on their very nice looking new gear. Hope to hear more about the Rotel sound.


----------



## BobG55

phoenixg said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


 
 Thank you PhoenixG.  Truly appreciate it.  BTW the 500c sounds incredible.  What a piece of technical engineering, I mean it's 50 years old !  That's the part that blows me away.


----------



## PhoenixG

bobg55 said:


> Thank you PhoenixG.  Truly appreciate it.  BTW the 500c sounds incredible.  What a piece of technical engineering, I mean it's 50 years old !  That's the part that blows me away.


 
 I know first hand how nice it sounds and I'm very happy for you. I had an 800c that had been restored by our very own Argybargy. He did an amazing mix of art and surgery on it to make it as good as possible and it sounded magical with a turntable. I ended up selling mine to help pay for those massive speakers (they're mcintosh xr-290's and they have been at the top of my 'dream sheet' for years). It was really nice to own and is a piece with a lot of personality.
  
 The only thing I'd put in the negative column is the build quality on the switches and a few shortcuts in the circuit (most can be 'rectified' in comprehensive overhauls). Of course, it had its target audience when it was made. They were more the console stereo audience than the summit-fi audience, so it's understandable that cost was a factor.
  
 I consider the 500c to be a competing (and extremely similar) amplifier to the mcintosh mc-275 with a few more features (preamp, tuner) and a lot less price. That's a high compliment, considering what the 275 commands without a tuner or preamp (around $2.5k). I have no trouble saying that at its price, it's the tube amp to beat. Heck, probably even at triple its price, it's still the best tube amp in class when it's done right. Congrats on the find and a sincere welcome to a world where it's hard to find something to trade up to.


----------



## SirMarc

@Wingtip, that Rotel is awesome looking!
The 9090 is sounding better by the minute. Thinking of bringing it to a local guy with a two month backlog. The problem, besides the 2 month backlog of course, is he only brings it back to spec, not a full restoration. That's cool of course because the most important thing is the sound quality, but we all know the looks are important too. Its going to be in a rack, so only the front needs to look good I guess I can do that myself. Just wish I could find someone local to do a full on restoration


----------



## SirMarc

Just cleaned all the knobs and toggles. Looks decent for a survivor.


----------



## SirMarc

I'm sitting here listening to Aqualung on vinyl and loving this Sansui. 
A better picture.


----------



## BobG55

sirmarc said:


> I'm sitting here listening to Aqualung on vinyl and loving this Sansui.
> A better picture.


 

 Brings me back to the early 70s, my late teens.


----------



## buson160man

wingtip said:


> Oregonian, the Rotel RX-1603 was rated at 180 wpc, and she actually puts out a little more than that. There are 330 ohm resistors between the amp output and each of the headphone jacks





> Checked out your photos . Saw your concept 11.0 . I have a recapped concept 16.5 and really love it. I use it strictly to drive headphones. It makes one hell of a headphone amplifier. I love the concept receivers.


----------



## gmask

A Kenwood KA-801 recently popped up on my local Craigslist for $250, does anyone have any experience with this? Should I get it for my HE-500?


----------



## Oregonian

gmask said:


> A Kenwood KA-801 recently popped up on my local Craigslist for $250, does anyone have any experience with this? Should I get it for my HE-500?


 
  
 Looks like a great option.  110 wpc and will make that HE-500 sing depending on condition.............may want to try it out of the speaker taps if you get it.  Run my HE-400 (and previously did with my HE-6) and the difference vs the headphone jack was impressive.  $250 seems reasonable if it's in good shape and may be able to offer $200.


----------



## JamesBr

bobg55 said:


> Brings me back to the early 70s, my late teens.


 
 If we only could


----------



## SirMarc

jamesbr said:


> If we only could



Kind of a large reason why we're all doing this I think...


----------



## SirMarc

Dropped off the 9090 yesterday to be brought up to spec. Hooked back up the Kenwood kr-7600 for the interim. The Kenwood does sound good, but thinner in the midrange than the Sansui. The Sansui just has more meat on the bones if you will. It is also more 3 dimensional in the soundstage. For example, if any of you are familiar with Anesthetize by Porcupine Tree, the bells in the beginning of the song are in the room with you with the Sansui, but with the Kenwood they're back with the rest of the music. All in all, very happy with the Sansui and can't wait to get it back. I may be done for a while...


----------



## BobG55

I suppose this qualifies as vintage info. although it's not about receivers.  Just watched on Fox News a report about vinyl records making a comeback : over 90 million vinyl albums sold in the US last year.  It was the most vinyl albums sold annually since 1993.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am back into vinyl big time.  Just got my 1977 vintage Leach phono stage up and running.  Did not realize what I was missing.


----------



## ssrock64

I also recently revived my vinyl setup. I've always had a record collection, but I'm actually paying attention to the quality of my equipment now, and I've also been buying lots of new LPs instead of CDs. My turntable is unfortunately a P-mount Technics, which limits my cartridge choices, but I found a good fit for me in the Grado Prestige Blue 1.


----------



## SirMarc

You could do much worse than a p-mount Technics. I pulled my old backup p-mount sl-qd22 out of the attic when my Thorens was getting a tune up and was very pleasantly surprised how good it sounded with a cheap AT cart


----------



## ssrock64

Oh yeah, I'm pretty satisfied with how the TT sounds and functions, especially for a unit that hasn't been thoroughly serviced in something like 25 years. I just haven't really been a huge fan of Grado's cartridges in the past, and Ortofon appears to have discontinued their P-mount models (or at least the ones I would be interested in), leaving me with very few alternative choices.
  
 I can EQ away some of what I consider to be the drawbacks of Grado's Prestige line, but my cartridge still tends to get unpleasantly overwhelmed in certain dense passages of music, especially when listening to soundtracks, ill-mastered early punk albums, and heavily-layered electronic tracks.


----------



## KeithEmo

bobg55 said:


> I suppose this qualifies as vintage info. although it's not about receivers.  Just watched on Fox News a report about vinyl records making a comeback : over 90 million vinyl albums sold in the US last year.  It was the most vinyl albums sold annually since 1993.


 
  
 Actually, according to Billboard, vinyl sales last year were a touch over NINE million... which still ain't bad...
  
 http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6538585/us-vinyl-album-sales-up-by-53-in-q1


----------



## BobG55

keithemo said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose this qualifies as vintage info. although it's not about receivers.  Just watched on Fox News a report about vinyl records making a comeback : over 90 million vinyl albums sold in the US last year.  It was the most vinyl albums sold annually since 1993.
> ...


 

 I must of misheard the number so I thought they said 90 million but 9 million appears to make more sense. I'm sure you're right.  I pulled a Roger Clemens : "I misremembered."


----------



## Neogeo333

Not a receiver or integrated but definitely close to vintage.  Sony TA-N86. Pure class -a amp.  Did a ghetto fix to get the speaker post to connect to my 4pin xlr adapter.   Bare wire only way to connect to this amp.  This amp is a sleeper.  Didn't know that a cheap amp like this could drive my NAD RP18 so good.  One thing for sure to let it heat up, yes heat up not warm up.  First 5 minutes of listening is horrible.   Watch something on TV or go mow the lawn then return and the magic happens.  
 First thing I notice right away is the details and more details.   This thing is very transparent.   I've been using tube amps far too long and wanted to change to ss to experiment a little.   Didn't want to spend a fortune and got this for 130.00.


----------



## PhoenixG

Congrats on finding something you like - but please tell me that those wires are insulated! Bare wires are the quickest way to short out an amp and start something on fire or shock something/someone.
 Cheers
  
  
 Quote:


neogeo333 said:


>


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks for your concern.   It might look that way but it's insulated.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I usually let my Rowland M1s warm up for at least an hour before serious listening.  They are class A also (and they do run hot!).


----------



## agonynine

sirmarc said:


> I'm sitting here listening to Aqualung on vinyl and loving this Sansui.
> A better picture.


 

 That 9090 is awesome, and unfortunately for me both difficult to find and expensive in England. One day!


----------



## headphones1999

agonynine said:


> That 9090 is awesome, and unfortunately for me both difficult to find and expensive in England. One day!


 
 for how much the 9090 goes on england?


----------



## SirMarc

agonynine said:


> That 9090 is awesome, and unfortunately for me both difficult to find and expensive in England. One day!



Thanks, I dropped it off last week to be serviced. I can't wait to get it back. After hearing it in my system, the Kenwood kr-7600 just isn't cutting it. This guy needs to hurry up lol. When I get it back I'll post a picture with all the lights working.


----------



## agonynine

headphones1999 said:


> for how much the 9090 goes on england?




The last one I saw was £900, which is about $1350. I'd better start saving!


----------



## SirMarc

agonynine said:


> The last one I saw was £900, which is about $1350. I'd better start saving!



Ouch! I really like the receiver, but not that much lol. Is that the price for a refurbished unit?


----------



## headphones1999

agonynine said:


> The last one I saw was £900, which is about $1350. I'd better start saving!


 
 wow
 here (israel) it goes for 700$-1100$, and i thought we have crazy prices, and its not that rare here (we have like 2 9090's on sale right now)
  
 anyway i think you should try getting the KA-9100, its a real beast
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## SirMarc

It does sound really good though. At least with my Dahlquists, it sounds significantly better than my Kenwood kr-7600


----------



## headphones1999

well first its the KR not the KA\trio of kenwood, and i fair compression to the sansui 9090 need to be the KR9400\9600


----------



## SirMarc

headphones1999 said:


> well first its the KR not the KA\trio of kenwood, and i fair compression to the sansui 9090 need to be the KR9400\9600



It's funny you bring the 9600 up, there's one for sale locally for 500 that's supposedly serviced. Think I'm done though, at least for now, very happy with the 9090...


----------



## headphones1999

sirmarc said:


> It's funny you bring the 9600 up, there's one for sale locally for 500 that's supposedly serviced. Think I'm done though, at least for now, very happy with the 9090...


 




 congrats and have fun then


----------



## agonynine

sirmarc said:


> Ouch! I really like the receiver, but not that much lol. Is that the price for a refurbished unit?


 

 Yes, I think it had been recently serviced and looked really well cared for.
  
 The problem, at least in my head, is justifying the massive price gap between TOTL receivers and those one or two rungs below. Is an SX1050 really worth five times as much as a SX750, or a 9090 worth three times as much as a 7070?


----------



## Skylab

Actually, maybe. 

The SX-1050 is significantly better built than the SX-750. The real step-up model in that line was the SX-850. The 850, 950, 1050 and of course the 1250 are built to a different level than the 4/5/6/750. Same with the SX-x80 series. Every model saw more features and slightly more robust design as you go up, but the real high value models in both lineups if you don't need gobs or power and the 850/950 and 880/980.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Actually, maybe.
> 
> The SX-1050 is significantly better built than the SX-750. The real step-up model in that line was the SX-850. The 850, 950, 1050 and of course the 1250 are built to a different level than the 4/5/6/750. Same with the SX-x80 series. Every model saw more features and slightly more robust design as you go up, but the real high value models in both lineups if you don't need gobs or power and the 850/950 and 880/980.


 
  
 +1 - having been inside and listened extensively to both the 750 and 1250 there is no comparison.  My guess is that the 1050 also is worth 4 to 5x more.


----------



## agonynine

Thanks Skylab and SpeakerBox, that's really good to know. There is a temptation with me to forego one of the top line models and get two, maybe three, of the mid-level receivers (that's my hoarder mentality!), but I will resist a bit more strongly!


----------



## PhoenixG

Today I will be picking up a firmly totl receiver. I'll post photos in a few hours. Silent one, I'm taking one of your recommendations


----------



## Luckbad

How do people connect these things? Can you connect them to a computer?


----------



## SirMarc

Lol


----------



## Oregonian

luckbad said:


> How do people connect these things? Can you connect them to a computer?


 
  
 I feed multiple sources -
  
 CD player direct
 Turntable direct
 iPhone 5 feeding into a NuForce iDo DAC via the auxiliary input. 
  
 Had a computer hooked up at one time as well, feeding via a NuForce uDac2.  Any USB DAC will serve as the conduit for vintage amps via RCA cables.


----------



## Luckbad

Ah these don't have dacs? Good to know. It seems like you can find great sound for a bargain if you're lucky. Going to start looking for Pioneers after I compile a list of worthy buys.


----------



## Oregonian

luckbad said:


> Ah these don't have dacs? Good to know. It seems like you can find great sound for a bargain if you're lucky. Going to start looking for Pioneers after I compile a list of worthy buys.


 

 No, they are just amps much like a headphone amp is just that, standalone amplification. 
  
 If/when you find some choices post up and the gang here can help.  Couple I found immediately on craigslist in your area..........
  
 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/5239984123.html
 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/5238654267.html
 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/5225639944.html
 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/ele/5219012639.html


----------



## ssrock64

oregonian said:


> No, they are just amps much like a headphone amp is just that, standalone amplification.
> 
> If/when you find some choices post up and the gang here can help.  Couple I found immediately on craigslist in your area..........
> 
> ...


 

 That 780 actually looks pretty good for the price, though who knows what's going on inside if the seller doesn't specifically mention a service. I'm not familiar with the 770, is that a later model?


----------



## Luckbad

If I want the most sub-bass and smoothest treble, should I be looking at Marantz? I love me some bass and I'm allergic to treble peaks.

The perfect sounding headphone to me is probably the JVC HP-DX1000 or Fostex/Denons with the treble peaks smoothed out.

I'll be using this with headphones primarily, so I'm not concerned with speaker performance, just headphone. The hungriest cans I'll use are the Sennheiser HD650.

It seems like the Pioneer SX-850+ are well liked, as are the Marantz 2230+.

Looking forward to this vintage journey.


----------



## Skylab

If you're allergic to treble peaks, Marantz would be a good choice.

Brief history lesson for younger readers who find this thread - my Pioneer SX-1980 was made in 1979. The first CD player was introduced in 1983. The first external DAC was several years after that. 

As such, the vast majority of the amps we discuss in this thread were built before there was ANY consumer digital audio of any sort. The SX-1980, a true TOTL receiver, had two phono inputs, two tape inputs, and only one AUX input  Fortunately, the tape inputs are also line inputs.

I have a DAC connected to the AUX input of my SX-1980, of course.


----------



## Luckbad

Got a deal I couldn't pass up on a Pioneer SX-880. Only issue it has is a little crackling/not-black background on the headphone out.


----------



## SirMarc

luckbad said:


> Got a deal I couldn't pass up on a Pioneer SX-880. Only issue it has is a little crackling/not-black background on the headphone out.



Nice! You have to love vu meters. Clean the pots with deoxit and it should get rid of the scratchiness.


----------



## PhoenixG

I brought this monster home today. I'm not sure I will ever buy another amp after this one. Silent One will understand as has has essentially the same unit. 



It was a multi day trip to pick it up, but I brought the wife and made a small vacation out of it. I saw the ad a few months ago and reposted it here as a curiosity. Just a "that's nice but I'll never be that lucky " kind of feeling. It was up for a while so I contacted the owner and the rest is history. 
It is fully recapped and super nice. I'm still kinda in a state of disbelief that it is in my living room.


----------



## Skylab

WOW!!! A 33000!!!! Those are pretty rare! And amazing sounding I'm sure. Congrats!


----------



## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> I brought this monster home today. I'm not sure I will ever buy another amp after this one. Silent One will understand as has has essentially the same unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn, that's awesome. Good for you man. That's the holy grail right there...


----------



## Luckbad

That's HUGE. Grats!


----------



## Luckbad

So I remembered my dad having an old Pioneer. It turns out my brother has it. It's a mint condition Pioneer SX-737 (both of them are ridiculous about keeping electronics and cars in pristine condition).

Apparently it powers on but no sound comes out. Thoughts as to what it could be? Would it be worth paying shipping to California so I can have a guy fix it?


----------



## Skylab

Hard to say. It may be that it needs to have its DC offset adjusted and that because the DC is too high it's going into protection. But of course it could be many other things.


----------



## roadcykler

phoenixg said:


> I brought this monster home today. I'm not sure I will ever buy another amp after this one. @Silent One will understand as has has essentially the same unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice acquisition. What speakers are those? They're huge.


----------



## Luckbad

Figured it could be many different things. I'll talk to him later about it. It would be a shame to see that unit fall into complete disuse after so many years. My dad bought it new back in 1974 and kept ridiculous care of it. Maybe for nostalgia I'll get it shipped out here, have it fixed, and sell the SX-880 I just got after I get the SX-737 working.
  
 I already have my eye on those Pioneer amps. SA-8100, 8500, 9100, 9500, 9800. I want one with really nice Bass EQ (which the 8500 II doesn't look like it has--not sure on the first version). How's the 8100 compared to the others in that list?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Maybe you will be lucky and find it is the speaker fuses.


----------



## PhoenixG

Thanks everyone. My initial impression of the G-33000 isn't that it is an earth shattering improvement over my STR-6120, though it does cleanly edge out the SX-1980. 
 The first thing I notice is the obvious depth of the sound. It's hard to miss. The background singers are in the back, the lead is wandering around the stage, drums back slight left, lead and bass next to each other slightly to the right (as an example). You just don't have to listen that carefully to get a feel for the image and it's really nice. Everything sounds life sized and it's awesome.
 Clarity, tone, whatever. It's good. Once you hit a certain level, most amps should sound very similar - and very good - and I like it that way. It has the sweet tone and luxurious voice I'd demand from a McIntosh amp, but I think that's just another way of saying flat response down to 15Hz through 25KHz with almost no distortion. It doesn't over or under-do anything. It's as controlled or loose as your source. It sounds every bit as good as the absolute best equipment on the market right now, so I don't see why I'd ever need to upgrade away from it.
  
 That being said, I am using every single input except the second phono. With a CD-player, tuner, turntable, line in, and bluetooth attachment (so I can stream pandora while I'm cooking without having to wander over to change songs or volume). I might be able to squeeze a few more inputs out of features that weren't meant for it (4 ch adapter and mic inputs anyone?), but I wouldn't mind a few more regular line level aux inputs.
  
 If I had to find a few cons to it, I'd just have to comment on the quality of the veneer. It's paper thin and easily dented, scratched, peeled, etc. I'm very lucky that mine is in such nice shape, but I can tell that I'm going to have to baby it. Also, the chassis is not as rigid as I'm used to. It is by no means floppy, but if you pick it up by opposing corners, it does emit a faint creak under the weight of the dual mono toroidal transformer power supplies acting their weight down onto the two foot wide lever of a chassis. Good thing I don't plan on moving it around too often.
  
 Don't let the cons make you think it is anything less than approaching perfection. Those cons are insignificant compared to how stunning it is in every other aspect. The knobs are a pleasure to turn, so beefy. It dominates the room (rightly). And it sounds amazing.
  
  
 Quote:


roadcykler said:


> Nice acquisition. What speakers are those? They're huge.


 
 Those are McIntosh XR-290's. They're the best sounding speaker I've ever heard.


----------



## Oregonian

@PhoenixG - congrats on finding that incredible piece of audio history!


----------



## agonynine

Wow, PhoenixG, that is immense! Am I right in thinking the G33000 came in two halves due to its sheer size? Are they bolted together?


----------



## headphones1999

agonynine said:


> Wow, PhoenixG, that is immense! Am I right in thinking the G33000 came in two halves due to its sheer size? Are they bolted together?


 
 yup 
 http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1021007-sansui-g33000.jpg


----------



## PhoenixG

agonynine said:


> Wow, PhoenixG, that is immense! Am I right in thinking the G33000 came in two halves due to its sheer size? Are they bolted together?


 
  
  


headphones1999 said:


> yup
> http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1021007-sansui-g33000.jpg


 
 Yep, it's in two parts. The bolts are long lost to time, so I just have it in a 'fore and aft' configuration so it doesn't dwarf my sofa and block the view.


----------



## Luckbad

For anyone interested, I cleaned up the headphone jack on my Pioneer SX-880 and moved it to a different power outlet and the crackling is completely gone!


----------



## SirMarc

Got it back!!! This thing sounds awesome!


----------



## SirMarc

We put 8v lamps in instead of 6v to dim down the dial lights. It looks good. He gave me the 6v ones in case I want to change out later.

Listening to Abby Road on vinyl now and it sounds spectacular.


----------



## Skylab

Very nice, SirMarc!!!! That's a great receiver. Enjoy.

LuckBad, glad your 880 is working well now. That's also a very, very nice receiver!


----------



## SirMarc

Thanks bud, I'm done for a while, unless I run across an eight deluxe. I keep hearing awesome things about that receiver...


----------



## Jozurr

If you guys had to choose one from the this list which one would you choose? I currently have a Sansui AU-D707G Extra and thinking if maybe the Trio KA-5002 or the Pioneer SA-6850 are better choices.


----------



## JamesBr

sirmarc said:


> We put 8v lamps in instead of 6v to dim down the dial lights. It looks good. He gave me the 6v ones in case I want to change out later.
> 
> Listening to Abby Road on vinyl now and it sounds spectacular.


 
 Good stuff!


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> I brought this monster home today. I'm not sure I will ever buy another amp after this one. @Silent One will understand as has has essentially the same unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What model McIntosh speaker is pictured? I am just curious. Is the speaker a conventional speaker or a hybrid? Maybe from te look of it could be a line source speaker design. They look like they weigh a ton.


----------



## buson160man




----------



## PhoenixG

They are xr-290 speakers. It was mcintosh's top speaker from 1993- the early 2000's. It is intended to be a column source and I can't say enough good things about them. They are in a league of their own when it comes to sound and build quality. Each one weighs about 350 lbs and is splittable in half if necessary for shipping. (It is necessary because I can't lift 350 lbs haha). Here's what they look like without a grill. 





buson160man said:


> What model McIntosh speaker is pictured? I am just curious. Is the speaker a conventional speaker or a hybrid? Maybe from te look of it could be a line source speaker design. They look like they weigh a ton.


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> They are xr-290 speakers. It was mcintosh's top speaker from 1993- the early 2000's. It is intended to be a column source and I can't say enough good things about them. They are in a league of their own when it comes to sound and build quality. Each one weighs about 350 lbs and is splittable in half if necessary for shipping. (It is necessary because I can't lift 350 lbs haha). Here's what they look like without a grill.


 

  Thanks for the info. I thought it was a line source design from the look of that line of tweeters on the outer edge of the cabinet.
 I use active speakers myself . I like not having amps and expensive bulky speaker wires running across the floor. After having actives I can never go back to passive designs again. They are just way more convenient and some of them are quite excellent sounding. If I had the bucks and the space my favorite would probably be a active atc 150 . I heard the active atc 100 once playing a count basie recording in a decent sized loft and it sounded like the band was literally in the room. The dynamic ability of the atc speakers is just plain awesome .I can just wonder how much better the active atc 150 would be. Of course they are not cheap but compared to an awful lot of esoteric audiophile designs they could easily hold their own and in some aspects leave the esoteric designs at the starting gate.And the atcs are a lot cheaper than those designs and include amplification. The atcs can play at very realistic volumes with little or no compression.


----------



## PhoenixG

Not to take the forum off topic, but it is always good to find something you like. However, at 10-30k$, I'm not sure you could really argue that the 100 and 150 speakers are really cheaper than anything else. I think you may be missing an opportunity to enjoy your concept receiver's full potential by using active speakers. For 1/10th of the 100's, you can get a set of klipsch cornwalls type 1's around 1k$, and they are solidly the second best pair of speakers I've ever heard. They are also upgradable by quite a bit if you get the itch to make them sound like something next level. We will have to agree to disagree on the active vs passive speaker argument, as I will never be convinced to get rid of my xr-290's and I absolutely love watching my power meters dance when I turn the milled aluminum knobs. 



buson160man said:


> Thanks for the info. I thought it was a line source design from the look of that line of tweeters on the outer edge of the cabinet.
> I use active speakers myself . I like not having amps and expensive bulky speaker wires running across the floor. After having actives I can never go back to passive designs again. They are just way more convenient and some of them are quite excellent sounding. If I had the bucks and the space my favorite would probably be a active atc 150 . I heard the active atc 100 once playing a count basie recording in a decent sized loft and it sounded like the band was literally in the room. The dynamic ability of the atc speakers is just plain awesome .I can just wonder how much better the active atc 150 would be. Of course they are not cheap but compared to an awful lot of esoteric audiophile designs they could easily hold their own and in some aspects leave the esoteric designs at the starting gate.And the atcs are a lot cheaper than those designs and include amplification. The atcs can play at very realistic volumes with little or no compression.


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> Not to take the forum off topic, but it is always good to find something you like. However, at 10-30k$, I'm not sure you could really argue that the 100 and 150 speakers are really cheaper than anything else. I think you may be missing an opportunity to enjoy your concept receiver's full potential by using active speakers. For 1/10th of the 100's, you can get a set of klipsch cornwalls type 1's around 1k$, and they are solidly the second best pair of speakers I've ever heard. They are also upgradable by quite a bit if you get the itch to make them sound like something next level. We will have to agree to disagree on the active vs passive speaker argument, as I will never be convinced to get rid of my xr-290's and I absolutely love watching my power meters dance when I turn the milled aluminum knobs.


 

  My concept receiver is pretty decent sounding with passive speakers. But my reference is to esoteric set ups in comparison refers to very exotic and expensive equipment setups costing tens of thousands of dollars and speakers costing northward of a hundred thousand  dollars and that is without amplification . The atcs are that good and cost only 20 thousand dollars with active amplification on board.
  There is a reason why professionals swear by atc active monitors and the fact they are industry standards for monitors. Plus they hold up under punishing conditions that would lay a good number of those esoteric speakers to waste.
    So in comparison they offer excellent value in comparison to a lot of those speakers you see at high end audio establishments.


----------



## MermaidMan

I happened upon an Optonica SM 3205 Amplifier on Craigslist.Right now I am using a Pioneer SX990 but I am wondering if the Optonica would be the better amp in the long run? It is 160 wpc compared to the Pioneers 30. May consider the trade.


----------



## SirMarc

mermaidman said:


> I happened upon an Optonica SM 3205 Amplifier on Craigslist.Right now I am using a Pioneer SX990 but I am wondering if the Optonica would be the better amp in the long run? It is 160 wpc compared to the Pioneers 30. May consider the trade.



The Optonica sm3205 is 40wpc


----------



## MermaidMan

sirmarc said:


> The Optonica sm3205 is 40wpc


 
 Where did you find this information?


----------



## SirMarc

Google, not alot of info on this piece. Was curious about it


----------



## Skylab

Generally speaking, Optonica is very good stuff. I had an Optonica integrated for a while...sounded great and the build quality was first rate. My piece was early 80's.


----------



## SirMarc

Its very cool looking


----------



## LVMan777

I use a 130 watt per channel CARVER RECEIVER as a Headphone Amp for listening to Las Vegas, Nevada am RIGHT WING WACKO TALK RADIO...
 I use a 200 watt per channel CARVER 2000 RECEIVER as a Headphone Amp for listening to Cable TV Audio...and sometimes drive my bedroom Carver ALS III Speakers
  
 My Music System is in the LIVING ROOM
  
 CARVER AMAZING LOUDSPEAKER ( 4 12 inch woofers and a 60 inch ribbon tweeter per speaker)
  
 SUNFIRE 300x2 AMP 600 watts per channel into 4 ohms
 (getting another soon to "Active Bi-Amp"...already got the X-over/eq units)
  
 AND A PAIR OF GRADO 80e "CANS"


----------



## BobG55

phoenixg said:


> I brought this monster home today. I'm not sure I will ever buy another amp after this one. @Silent One will understand as has has essentially the same unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm a bit late, haven't been on this thread awhile but man what a beautiful  amp and setup.  Congrats !   Are your windows shatter proof ???


----------



## PhoenixG

lvman777 said:


> I use a 130 watt per channel CARVER RECEIVER as a Headphone Amp for listening to Las Vegas, Nevada am RIGHT WING WACKO TALK RADIO...
> I use a 200 watt per channel CARVER 2000 RECEIVER as a Headphone Amp for listening to Cable TV Audio...and sometimes drive my bedroom Carver ALS III Speakers
> 
> My Music System is in the LIVING ROOM
> ...


 
 Those carver speakers have intrigued me for a while. I've never been able to get a listen to them, but I have a column source myself, so I imagine they're pretty fantastic. Hope you can put some pictures up when you become able!
  


bobg55 said:


> I'm a bit late, haven't been on this thread awhile but man what a beautiful  amp and setup.  Congrats !   Are your windows shatter proof ???


 
 Thanks bud! I imagine there is only one way to find out!!


----------



## BobG55

bobg55 said:


> I'm a bit late, haven't been on this thread awhile but man what a beautiful  amp and setup.  Congrats !   Are your windows shatter proof ???


 
 Thanks bud! I imagine there is only one way to find out!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






 Make sure you get it all on video when you try it out : that's one I don't want to miss


----------



## LVMan777

PICTURES TO FOLLOW....
  
 ALSO GOING TO TAKE MY "NEW" APOGEE CALIPERS APART FOR REPAIR (Torn Ribbons)


----------



## chillaxing

whats up boys, a good head-fier pointed me to this thread.
  
  so i've been really considering a vintage amps ever since I got my planars. I have a lyr2 juicing them right now, but I still feel, at times, that its not enough for these power hogs.
  
 I'm wanting this amp to replace my A/V receiver and power my 2.1 desktop system too.  so i'm thinking of an amp that has at least 100+wpc just to be in the safe side, I'm a firm believer in headroom, and with at least an A/B speaker selection.  Can you guys suggest a couple of models that I can look at.
  
 I have a pioneer sx3900 in sight and a sx-950.  But the sx3900 has some humming noise issues and the 950 is said to be rebuilt a year ago. 
  
 What would it take to totally redo the 3900 and is it worth it?  I'm thinking if I go the vintage route i'm gonna do it right.
  
 Also to make my sub work with this receiver.  I would need to get a rca split and split the signal from my dac and run one of the cables to my sub and use the sub's hp filter?  the sub has its own plate amp.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 3900 is a very nice unit - I worked on one for a friend a few weeks ago.  It is hard to work on but sounds awesome.
  
 On the one I worked on the switches were dirty to the point of not passing signal and it required a complete dissembling of the front to get at them.  That said, once cleaned it sounded fantastic!
  
 The other problem with the 3900 is that it develops lose connections (bad solder joints) to the AM/FM display area which can be hard to get at in order to fix.  This results in the display randomly dropping in and out.
  
 These problems aside I have seen nice ones go for $1500 on ebay.  It is 120WPC RMS almost certainly under rated.


----------



## Oregonian

chillaxing said:


> whats up boys, a good head-fier pointed me to this thread.
> 
> so i've been really considering a vintage amps ever since I got my planars. I have a lyr2 juicing them right now, but I still feel, at times, that its not enough for these power hogs.
> 
> ...


 

 Glad you made it over here.  The 950 is a good choice for you - what was the asking price? 
  
 Re the sub - you can hook it up to the B speaker taps, which is how I have my TV system set up on the Pioneer SX-1050.  No need for RCA splits.  Just feed it a signal and let it do the rest.


----------



## MermaidMan

I have an issue with my speakers but I felt like this is the best thread to ask. After my last amp blew from my cousin spilling beer on it, my left speaker has not been working. It will briefly put out sound then cut out completely. Any suggestions or is it shot? They are cheap Sanyo SS 660's so it wouldn't be a problem to replace them but I'd like to try to repair it.


----------



## chillaxing

oregonian said:


> Glad you made it over here.  The 950 is a good choice for you - what was the asking price?
> 
> Re the sub - you can hook it up to the B speaker taps, which is how I have my TV system set up on the Pioneer SX-1050.  No need for RCA splits.  Just feed it a signal and let it do the rest.


 
  
  
 thanks man,
  
 I don't know what happened to the ad for the 950, might have sold it and removed the ad.
  
 well i'm thinking about this one.  I think 80wpc is good enough for now.  it lets me get my feet wet with working on these things, plus there always needs for a another receiver when I want to updrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
https://modesto.craigslist.org/ele/5252758164.html
  
 Bad thing its a 2 - 2.5 hr round trip, and i drive a tundra.


----------



## Luckbad

A couple things I learned from recently getting into vintage gear, @chillaxing
  

If you have relatively sensitive headphones, it's best to find something with a Mute function (usually -20dB) like a Pioneer SA series amplifier (the best being the 8000 and 9000 series). Without the mute on my Pioneer SX-880, there's hiss in all my cans. I don't like that, even though when playing it sounds amazing.
There was a step up in the receiver series starting with the 800 series according to many. Apparently the 700s are good too, but 850/880 and higher are apparently the first of the best. Same goes for the amplifier series (8100/8500/8800 are the start of the awesome ones, or the 7000 series is supposed to be very good if you don't need as much EQ control). 
  
 Note that I have personally only heard the Pioneer SX-880 and SX-737 (also very good). The rest comes from reading lots of stuff here and AudioKarma.


----------



## chillaxing

luckbad said:


> A couple things I learned from recently getting into vintage gear, @chillaxing
> 
> 
> If you have relatively sensitive headphones, it's best to find something with a Mute function (usually -20dB) like a Pioneer SA series amplifier (the best being the 8000 and 9000 series). Without the mute on my Pioneer SX-880, there's hiss in all my cans. I don't like that, even though when playing it sounds amazing.
> ...


 
  
  
 thanks for the heads up.
  
 only headphones that are gong to be powered by this, is the big dog planars, audeze and hifiman.  I have a ifi idsd coming in for the rest.
  
 With that being said, anyone experience sensitivity issue using these amps with planars.  I don't really like floor noise either.


----------



## chillaxing

found the listing for the 950 it was an ebay listing.  the guy is local so i was planning to make him an offer for a face to face transaction.
  
 what do you guys think i should offer him?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIONEER-SX-950-RECEIVER-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/252111393610?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


----------



## SpeakerBox

mermaidman said:


> I have an issue with my speakers but I felt like this is the best thread to ask. After my last amp blew from my cousin spilling beer on it, my left speaker has not been working. It will briefly put out sound then cut out completely. Any suggestions or is it shot? They are cheap Sanyo SS 660's so it wouldn't be a problem to replace them but I'd like to try to repair it.


 
  
 My guess is that the speaker was damaged when your amp blew and the current amp cuts out into protection mode.  You might try measuring the resistance across the speaker terminals.  If they are 8 ohm I would expect DC resistance of at least 6 ohms.  You may have a short.


----------



## frahengeo

I would offer $300-350.00, but I don't think this person will like your offer, but that's me.  I'm saying this because I picked up an un-restored SX-1250 for $600.00 from a local audio enthusiast last year.  The $600 asking price seems unrealistic to me, but the thing with ebay is that it tends to reach a lot of potential buyers; some of which may be willing to pay that asking price.


----------



## chillaxing

I was thinking the same with the offer.  I was willing to give him 350-400 since its a clean unit that i don't have worry or work on.
  
 is pio one of the more expensive brands.  Seems like resell value is high for the pio compared to the other brands.
  
 I'm a pio fanboy.  They still make good ****.  HU in my car, best bang for buck unit out there, my pio plasma that I got back in 04", still running like a champ, and that thing has been on for basically 18hr a day for the past 4yrs.  color is like **** but its still ticking.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I must be lucky.  I just got an absolute mint (unrestored) SX-1250 for $350.  I now have two of them.  The first one I got for $335 at a pawn shop but it is not as mint cosmetically as the recent acquisition.  The newest one does not even have any dirt inside!  No nicks or dings anywhere, Works too. Unbelievable. I completely restored my first one so won't be parting with that for sure.  Now have to decide if I need two 1250s.


----------



## Oregonian

I'm a Pioneer nut as well, with 5 of them in service.  Paid $400 for the SX-1050 in mind condition and $270 for my entire Spec system.  Completely luck and being at right place at the right time.  Glad I answered the phone that time..................
  
 Seems his $600 is a bit steep.  Let us know what he says.....


----------



## Skylab

Huge Pioneer enthusiast here too obviously. Speakerbox a mint SX-1250 for $350 is amazing! Since you have a fully restored one, i know what I would do...take the faceplate and all the externals of the mint one, transplant those onto the restored one, and then sell the unrestored one with the now slightly less mint cosmetics and you will still come out way ahead!

That is, unless you have a place for another system


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Huge Pioneer enthusiast here too obviously. Speakerbox a mint SX-1250 for $350 is amazing! Since you have a fully restored one, i know what I would do...take the faceplate and all the externals of the mint one, transplant those onto the restored one, and then sell the unrestored one with the now slightly less mint cosmetics and you will still come out way ahead!
> 
> That is, unless you have a place for another system


 
  
 That is certainly one of the options I am considering.  My next step is to do a check of the internals and make sure there are no cracked solder joints on the regulator board (the Achilles Heel of the 1250).  If that board goes out it may well take others with it so want to make sure it is sound.  But by the look of things it seems it was not used much so am expecting the solder joints will be sound.  A couple of switches will need DeoxIt but most are clean.  It really is like a museum piece.
  

 Did I mention I also have a SX750 in excellent shape (given to me) I am trying to decide what to do with?  Debating if it should replace my Sherwood 8900A for HP use.  Good problems to have I guess.  The debate goes on....


----------



## Oregonian

@ SpeakerBox................add a second system somewhere else.  Garage?  Home office?  Bathroom?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 If I can find the "need" for 7 systems in my house, you can find 2!    (yes, my wife thinks I'm nuts)


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> @ SpeakerBox................add a second system somewhere else.  Garage?  Home office?  Bathroom?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Considering that also - but already have my main system with Rowland amps, man cave with SX1250, and Bedroom with Sherwood 8900A.  Not saying I could not add more though.


----------



## PhoenixG

oregonian said:


> I'm a Pioneer nut as well, with 5 of them in service.  Paid $400 for the SX-1050 in mind condition and $270 for my entire Spec system.  Completely luck and being at right place at the right time.  Glad I answered the phone that time..................
> 
> Seems his $600 is a bit steep.  Let us know what he says.....


 
 You are indeed super lucky! I think everything you own has doubled or tripled since you got it.
  


skylab said:


> Huge Pioneer enthusiast here too obviously. Speakerbox a mint SX-1250 for $350 is amazing! Since you have a fully restored one, i know what I would do...take the faceplate and all the externals of the mint one, transplant those onto the restored one, and then sell the unrestored one with the now slightly less mint cosmetics and you will still come out way ahead!
> 
> That is, unless you have a place for another system


 
 I've done this maneuver and was really happy with it. You get the piece you want in the shape you want and your wife doesn't have to fret about your growing collection haha.


----------



## chillaxing

speakerbox said:


> Considering that also - but already have my main system with Rowland amps, man cave with SX1250, and Bedroom with Sherwood 8900A.  Not saying I could not add more though.


 
  
  
 I can solve your problem.  Just sell it to me


----------



## chillaxing

oregonian said:


> I'm a Pioneer nut as well, with 5 of them in service.  Paid $400 for the SX-1050 in mind condition and $270 for my entire Spec system.  Completely luck and being at right place at the right time.  Glad I answered the phone that time..................
> 
> Seems his $600 is a bit steep.  Let us know what he says.....


 
  
  
 I think you forgot a 0 from that $270 for the Spec system...  $270!!! you didnt purchase it from the guy.... you stole it from him.....


----------



## SirMarc

@PhoenixG Holy crap! Did you have earplugs in? With my 9090 meters pegging at around 100 its too loud in my room


----------



## Oregonian

chillaxing said:


> I think you forgot a 0 from that $270 for the Spec system...  $270!!! you didnt purchase it from the guy.... you stole it from him.....


 
  
 So true.  There's a full rack Spec system available local for $2500 and he can't find anyone to pay even $2000 (been listed since July), with TWO Spec amps in the deal!  I'm so tempted to pool money with some buds and buy it.


----------



## PhoenixG

I was doing a dynamic range 'experiment' on some vinyl to see what the difference was between the average and peaks. With Fleetwood Mac 'Rumors" playing, it was averaging just 25W steady state, noise floor at ~.001w and lowest discernible noise levels around .1w, with peaks at 600W, so that gives a dynamic range around 57dB and dynamic headroom of 13dB. That's some back of the envelope math, so forgive me if it's rounded. Most of that power was bass, so I didn't need hearing protection, but if I put it into a clipping regime (steady state power above about 60w would clip the peaks on vinyl, 100W SS would clip 50%) then I would need hearing protection because clipping really hurts my ears.
  
 Needless to say, I was really happy with those results. The dynamic range and headroom is what I think makes vinyl special. Sometimes I just want to be kicked by the music and cd's can't or don't do it.The noise is what can make it annoying though. -57dB is discernible noise at max power and keeps the background from ever being completely black.
 On other inputs, cd, digital, etc, there was no noise. It was just too small to hear or measure even at max volume. So CD's can probably do a better dynamic range, but for whatever reason rarely do. Go figure.


----------



## chillaxing

oregonian said:


> So true.  There's a full rack Spec system available local for $2500 and he can't find anyone to pay even $2000 (been listed since July), with TWO Spec amps in the deal!  I'm so tempted to pool money with some buds and buy it.


 
  
  
 man, do i need to take a road trip up to oregon... .hmmmmm... only a 10hr drive....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 on a side note.  the 950 i wanted to get from ebay, the guy wanted 600 firm.... He must be smoking crack.  I told him after fees and shipping hes only gonna net about what I offered. people.....


----------



## SirMarc

Yeah, I feel ya man. 99% of the time I prefer vinyl also. I've got some hi res files that come close, but the tonality and bass of vinyl is almost always better in my opinion


----------



## PhoenixG

chillaxing said:


> man, do i need to take a road trip up to oregon... .hmmmmm... only a 10hr drive....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hahaha, I think it's time to sell my spare sx-980. If you come up to WA you can have it for less than that guy wants.


----------



## Jozurr

I have the option to buy from the following:
  
 Pioneer SA-7800
 Marantz PM-550DC
 Trio KA-5002
 Denon PMA-235
  
 Do any of you have any experience with any of them and which one do you guys think I should consider buying?


----------



## Oregonian

jozurr said:


> I have the option to buy from the following:
> 
> Pioneer SA-7800
> Marantz PM-550DC
> ...


 
  
 I'd focus on the SA-7800 - may be because I'm a Pioneer fanboy like Skylab but for real that is good unit.  I have the SA-8800 in my office at work and love it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> I'd focus on the SA-7800 - may be because I'm a Pioneer fanboy like Skylab but for real that is good unit.  I have the SA-8800 in my office at work and love it.


 
  
 +1


----------



## mike34260

Hey guys got a quick question for you. I just bought a pair of DT 770 pro 80 ohms and I want to use them with my vintage amps. My HD 600 sounds great through my Kenwood KA 3500 and NAD 7020 but my Phillips SHP 9500 sounds bloated since it's 32 ohms. Are the Beyers high enough on the impedance chart to sound good with the older amps? Or am I better off using the head amp in my Onkyo CD player?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Wondering if I can get any input on how teh Sennheiser HD800 sounds with any of the following:
 Anyone tried  Pioneer SX-1980 or the The Fisher 500c with it?
 I hear they are among the two more powerful vintage amps & they give a lot more power to the HD800.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think the Fisher 500c is only 35WPC.  The 1980 on the other hand is 270WPC.


----------



## Skylab

Totally different beasts. But the HD800's really don't need that much power, and also can really benefit from a bit of tube warmth. As much as I love the SX-1980, if I were to look for something primarily to use with the HD800, it would for sure be the Fisher.

On the other hand, for Audeze or HifiMan planar headphones, nothing beats the SX-1980


----------



## jnorris

skylab said:


> Totally different beasts. But the HD800's really don't need that much power, and also can really benefit from a bit of tube warmth. As much as I love the SX-1980, if I were to look for something primarily to use with the HD800, it would for sure be the Fisher.
> 
> On the other hand, for Audeze or HifiMan planar headphones, nothing beats the SX-1980


 

 I find the Pioneers tend to be harsh, unless you can separate the pre-amp from the main amp.  Pioneer's pre-amps are somwhat noisy and harsh sounding, while their amps are silent and clean.  If you have another preamp, and you can separate the Pioneer's preamp out and main amp in give it a shot. 
  
 One of my favorite headphone amps is the Advent 300 receiver's main amp section fed by a Sumo Athena preamp.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I find the Pioneers tend to be harsh, unless you can separate the pre-amp from the main amp.  Pioneer's pre-amps are somwhat noisy and harsh sounding, while their amps are silent and clean.  If you have another preamp, and you can separate the Pioneer's preamp out and main amp in give it a shot.
> 
> One of my favorite headphone amps is the Advent 300 receiver's main amp section fed by a Sumo Athena preamp.


 
  
 Agree on the harshness - fortunately there is a remedy - replace all tantalum capacitors in the preamp with film.  Problem goes away as it did in my 1250.  Plus the tants are subject to a higher failure rate than the other electrolytic caps.


----------



## chillaxing

how are sansui receivers, how the sound. thinking of picking up a g9700


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Agree on the harshness - fortunately there is a remedy - replace all tantalum capacitors in the preamp with film.  Problem goes away as it did in my 1250.  Plus the tants are subject to a higher failure rate than the other electrolytic caps.




Bingo! Did this in my SX-1980. HUGE difference.


----------



## Thenewguy007

skylab said:


> Totally different beasts. But the HD800's really don't need that much power, and also can really benefit from a bit of tube warmth. As much as I love the SX-1980, if I were to look for something primarily to use with the HD800, it would for sure be the Fisher.
> 
> On the other hand, for Audeze or HifiMan planar headphones, nothing beats the SX-1980


 
 Right now I just want something to improve my Sennheiser HD800.
 I want something that can really add fullness to the music/mids/upper bass or add kick & slam to the lower bass.
 Getting a wider soundstage is always welcome as well.
  
 Tried a bunch of amps (see my profile) & they didn't really cut it. People are recommending I go up $3,000 on amps to get that sound out of the HD800.
  
 I have a $1,200-ish budget to work around with on buying an amp. Are any of the vintage amps you guys had compare with the higher end stuff of today?
 Like the Woo Audio WA5LE, DNA Stratus or the Eddie Current Balancing Act?


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Bingo! Did this in my SX-1980. HUGE difference.


 
  
 Night and day!


----------



## claybum

Anyone need some vintage Mcintosh. Don't see cragslist postings like this in Eugene, Or very often.
 $15,000 takes it all.
  
 http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/5266289047.html
  
 no affiliation on my part


----------



## Oregonian

Think I'd rather have that than the new Orpheus..............


----------



## wotts

oregonian said:


> Think I'd rather have that than the new Orpheus..............


 
  
  





  
 That stack looks amazing.


----------



## Thenewguy007

Been reading up all day.
  
 So is it safe to say the best of the best for each brand are:
  
 Pioneer

 1. Pioneer SX-1980
 2. Pioneer SX-1280
 3. Pioneer SX-1250
 4. Pioneer SX-1080
 5. Pioneer SX-1050
 6. Pioneer SX-1010
 7. Pioneer SX-980
  
  
 Marantz
  
 1. Marantz 2600
 2. Marantz 2500
 3. Marantz 2385B
 4. Marantz 2285B
 5. Marantz 2265B
  
  
 Sansui
  
 1. Sansui B2301/C2301
 2. Sansui AU-X1111MOS
 3. Sansui AU- Alpha 907
 4. Sansui AU-919
 5. Sansui AU-819
 6. Sansui AU-717
 7. Sansui G-9000
 8. Sansui G-7000
 9. Sansui 9090DB
 10. Sansui 9090
  
  
 Fisher
  
 1. Fisher 800c
 2. Fisher 500c
 3. ?
  
  
 Which out of those would be a good match for the Sennsheiser HD800, 300Ohms sensitive headphones?
  
 Also any word on what's good for vintage Yamaha, Kenwood, Onkyo stuff?


----------



## Oregonian

You forgot the Spec series................from Pioneer.  May be the best stuff Pioneer made. 
  
 And I love the HD800 from the Spec system out of the headphone jack.  Bass light?  I don't think so.................


----------



## Thenewguy007

oregonian said:


> You forgot the Spec series................from Pioneer.  May be the best stuff Pioneer made.
> 
> And I love the HD800 from the Spec system out of the headphone jack.  Bass light?  I don't think so.................


 
  
 What's the difference between the Spec series, the SA series & the SX series?
 All the info I been reading about has been all the SX line, very little talk about the other ones.
  
 Which would be the best bet for using them as a pure headphone amp?
  
 Also is Spec 1 or 2 the better one?


----------



## Oregonian

thenewguy007 said:


> What's the difference between the Spec series, the SA series & the SX series?
> All the info I been reading about has been all the SX line, very little talk about the other ones.
> 
> Which would be the best bet for using them as a pure headphone amp?
> ...


 
  
 I'm only going off what I was told on Audiokarma when I found this system - guys said there was nothing better, either by design or by execution (not verbatim but it's one of the Pioneer gurus over there) and from what I read can't refute it. 
  
 Here's a couple of sites to check out -
  
 http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-SPEC-2.html
 http://www.johnweeks.com/tour/pioneer/
  
 The Spec 1 is the preamp and Spec 2 is the amp (250 wpc).  Spec 4 is also available as an amp @ 150 wpc
  
 I have the SX-1050 and it's headphone out is glorious.  The Spec system is my best and sound is pretty incredible, especially out of my vintage Cerwin Vega speakers.


----------



## Luckbad

thenewguy007 said:


> What's the difference between the Spec series, the SA series & the SX series?
> All the info I been reading about has been all the SX line, very little talk about the other ones.
> 
> Which would be the best bet for using them as a pure headphone amp?
> ...



The SX series are receivers and SA series are amps (and you can get a matching tuner for many of them).

Both are awesome. If you have sensitive headphones, you might look into the SA series. Most of them have a Mute switch that drops the volume by 20dB.

I had the SX-880 and it sounded awesome but hissed with sensitive cans.


----------



## Thenewguy007

oregonian said:


> The Spec 1 is the preamp and Spec 2 is the amp (250 wpc).  Spec 4 is also available as an amp @ 150 wpc
> 
> I have the SX-1050 and it's headphone out is glorious.  The Spec system is my best and sound is pretty incredible, especially out of my vintage Cerwin Vega speakers.


 
  
  


luckbad said:


> The SX series are receivers and SA series are amps (and you can get a matching tuner for many of them).


 
  
 I'm really new to receivers, but don't all of these receivers have built in amps in them to power headphones & speakers?
  
 I understand why one would need a preamp for a stand alone power amp that has no volume control & just one set of inputs, but none of these seem to fit that criteria.
  
 All I been using so far was DAC's & dedicated headphone amps, so I'm new to the use of preamps.


----------



## kenshinhimura

to be more specific, the SX has am/fm tuner and the SA doesn't. that's the main difference.


----------



## PhoenixG

claybum said:


> Anyone need some vintage Mcintosh. Don't see cragslist postings like this in Eugene, Or very often.
> $15,000 takes it all.
> 
> http://eugene.craigslist.org/ele/5266289047.html
> ...


 
 Wow.
 There's a lot to chew on. That's one of the nicest mcintosh systems I've seen!


thenewguy007 said:


> Been reading up all day.
> 
> So is it safe to say the best of the best for each brand are:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd say you missed a few of the real nice but unarguably TOTL units. The biggest G series (22k/33k) for sansui are hyper rare, but about perfect as far as receivers go. I don't think the pioneer 980 quite fits in with the rest of the list esp without the spec series up there.
 And you're also overlooking some other brands. Mcintosh, sony, and even technics all deserve to be in the mix. some more consistently than others haha. Technics made 3 good receivers, but good luck finding the best ones, mcintosh made a ton of hits and very few misses, and sony was amazing with it's str-6120/6200 models, but slid from there.


----------



## Thenewguy007

I searched through this thread & found no comparisons between the Fisher 500c & 800c.
 Is the 800c a worthwhile upgrade over the 500c?
  
  
 Also what should I look for if they were restored?
 BobG55 had a bad experience with a restoration that made his 500c sound worse.
 Should the capacitors & tubes be restored with the same types?
  
 If I send it to a recommended restorer, what would be the general cost?


----------



## Koolpep

thenewguy007 said:


> Been reading up all day.
> 
> So is it safe to say the best of the best for each brand are:
> 
> ...


 
  
 You forgot the rare and awesome Sansui AU-2200 - the headphone output uses the same circuit on the headphone out as on the speaker out....
  

  
  
 I couldn't believe my ears how well it drove my planars and dynamic (high impedance) headphones. 
  
 Cheers,
 K
  
 PS: also the A-E970 with the Sanyo LC7881hybrid DAC which sounds sublime to me.


----------



## jnorris

koolpep said:


> You forgot the rare and awesome Sansui AU-2200 - the headphone output uses the same circuit on the headphone out as on the speaker out....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Rare, perhaps, awesome, no.  the AU-2200 is a 10 watt per channel (40-20KHz at .8% distortion) integrated amp that is built around low-end IC opamps and the cheap Sanyo STK016B amplifier chip.  Usually, an amps headphone out is taken through a resistor step-down from the speaker out taps.  On this amp, either the designers were too cheap to throw in the extra resistors, or felt that the power was too anemic to hurt any headphones connected directly to the speaker out taps.
  
 I can't believe you're using high end headphones with this thing.  My guess is that a new world awaits you when you upgrade your amp.


----------



## Koolpep

jnorris said:


> Rare, perhaps, awesome, no.  the AU-2200 is a 10 watt per channel (40-20KHz at .8% distortion) integrated amp that is built around low-end IC opamps and the cheap Sanyo STK016B amplifier chip.  Usually, an amps headphone out is taken through a resistor step-down from the speaker out taps.  On this amp, either the designers were too cheap to throw in the extra resistors, or felt that the power was too anemic to hurt any headphones connected directly to the speaker out taps.
> 
> I can't believe you're using high end headphones with this thing.  My guess is that a new world awaits you when you upgrade your amp.




Been there, done that. I still have Burson Conductor, ifi iDSD micro, bottlehead crack with speedball, C5 and C5D, and a few others that I have sold. 

I was surprised too. So we're my audiophile friends who tried that amp. Most of my cans I run via the HE-Adapter from Hifiman via speaker taps balanced. I received two: "name your price" offers from people who heard their fans or own amps like the WA-5 (fully upgraded), Ragnarok, Glenn and other amps and with all of the TOTL headphones on the market  

It's holding up surprisingly well, surpasses quite a few and I have heard: "best bass I have ever heard" with the HE-6 for example
I heard my high end cans with pretty amazing amps and dacs. Am fortunate enough to live in a city with some amazing friends that have more amps than I can count. Of course I am not saying the $150 dollar vintage Sansui is better than the fully upgraded WA-5, but it does sound amazingly good with my cans.

Is it a great amp for speakers? Probably not. But my headphones are driven amazingly well from it. I couldn't believe it myself at first. But now it's my goto amp. The most musical and toe tapping experience. 

Cheers,
K


----------



## frahengeo

thenewguy007 said:


> Been reading up all day.
> 
> So is it safe to say the best of the best for each brand are:
> 
> ...


 
 I've used my HD800 with an SX-1250 with good results.  Also, I used the HD800 with a 2238B, and liked that combo as well.  Haven't tried it with my Sansui's, but I bet the results will be very good.


----------



## jnorris

koolpep said:


> Been there, done that. I still have Burson Conductor, ifi iDSD micro, bottlehead crack with speedball, C5 and C5D, and a few others that I have sold.
> 
> I was surprised too. So we're my audiophile friends who tried that amp. Most of my cans I run via the HE-Adapter from Hifiman via speaker taps balanced. I received two: "name your price" offers from people who heard their fans or own amps like the WA-5 (fully upgraded), Ragnarok, Glenn and other amps and with all of the TOTL headphones on the market
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder if you're reacting to the extra driving current available from an amp designed to push speakers rather than headphones.  I find "headphone amps" less dynamic and exciting, with little real energy at the frequency extremes.


----------



## Koolpep

jnorris said:


> I wonder if you're reacting to the extra driving current available from an amp designed to push speakers rather than headphones.  I find "headphone amps" less dynamic and exciting, with little real energy at the frequency extremes.


 

 Hmm, I am sure there is a lot of truth in that statement. But then I should have had the same reaction with amps like the Master9 and other vintage and non-vintage amps. Anyhow, whatever it is, it just sounds great.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Thenewguy007

Is there a hierarchy among these amps?
  
 The Sansui Au-919 (& the lower AU-717) & the Marantz 2285B (& the lower 2265B) are the highest regarded receivers from those respected companies (without going into major bucks).
 Has anyone heard both? Can anyone describe the sound differences between these two?
  
  
 Also is the Marantz Model 18 a step above the Marantz 2285B?
  
 Or the Sansui Eight a step up over the Sansui AU-919?


----------



## richard51

and the sansui au 770 ? i had someone who offer to me to buy one? is it a great sansui ?


----------



## Thenewguy007

Never really stopped to think about it, but are vintage integrated amps generally better than receivers for solely amping headphones?
  
 Most of the talk I read was on the monster '70s receivers.


----------



## richard51

the Hitachi receiver i had is way better for my headphone than my headphone amp an excellent one...


thenewguy007 said:


> Never really stopped to think about it, but are vintage integrated amps generally better than receivers for solely amping headphones?
> 
> Most of the talk I read was on the monster '70s receivers.


----------



## richard51

sorry,,, double post


----------



## Skylab

thenewguy007 said:


> Never really stopped to think about it, but are vintage integrated amps generally better than receivers for solely amping headphones?
> 
> Most of the talk I read was on the monster '70s receivers.




They can be, yes. Mainly because the integrated amps typically (but not always) sell for less than the equivalently powered receiver. Why? Because the receivers are sexier. There were also a lot more receiver models, because back in the day FM was a MAJOR source of music listening, so people typically wanted a receiver. Some were ok with separate amp and tuner. 

But if you don't want a FM tuner, anf you are not buying the look, then yes, your better value is often with an integrated amp.


----------



## richard51

I had pay 100 dollars for a Sansui AU 7700.... but nobody know this model here i think.... i will organized a match between the class g Hitachi SR 904  and the Sansui Au 7700.... The Hitachi was a revelation for me.... I buy 4  headphone amps  ( pa2v2-Aune T1-Bravo ocean- Ember )without being totally satisfied of my listening with the He 400.... With the speakers out of the Hitachi it was extraordinary better... with the sorbothane mod. more extraordinary ... Now that i had finally after 2 years listen really to the potential of my HE 400 i am in search of a very good vintage amp at an affordable price....The Hitachi was one the Sansui is the other.... Nobody knows the Sansui AU 7700 ?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 By the way if you have headphone the transformation of an headphone with the sorbothane mod is  at minimum on par with the purchase of an extraordinary amplifier...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 i know that firsthand...


----------



## jnorris

thenewguy007 said:


> Never really stopped to think about it, but are vintage integrated amps generally better than receivers for solely amping headphones?
> 
> Most of the talk I read was on the monster '70s receivers.


 

 Generally, they are.  Back in the day audiophiles considered receivers as low end junk, preferring separates instead.  Integrated amps of the time included more technology and better components than the receivers - although in some cases, some of the technology spilled over in order to give salesmen talking points about the receivers.  True audiophiles preferred separate everything - preamps, phono preamps and amps, but far fewer of the receiver manufactures ventured into that area.


----------



## jnorris

jnorris said:


> Generally, they are.  Back in the day audiophiles considered receivers as low end junk, preferring separates instead.  Integrated amps of the time included more technology and better components than the receivers - although in some cases, some of the technology spilled over in order to give salesmen talking points about the receivers.  True audiophiles preferred separate everything - preamps, phono preamps and amps, but far fewer of the receiver manufactures ventured into that area.


 

 To add to the above, if a manufacturer of receivers did venture into expensive separates, it was only to lend credibility to the brand.  Those were the items pictured in their advertisements so that when a consumer would look at a lower end receiver they would think "Oh, yeah, I know that brand - they make that high end stuff - they must be good!"  I don't think any of those manufacturers ever expected to sell too much of that stuff.


----------



## parbaked

jnorris said:


> To add to the above, if a manufacturer of receivers did venture into expensive separates, it was only to lend credibility to the brand.  Those were the items pictured in their advertisements so that when a consumer would look at a lower end receiver they would think "Oh, yeah, I know that brand - they make that high end stuff - they must be good!"  I don't think any of those manufacturers ever expected to sell too much of that stuff.


 

 The Japanese manufacturers made audiophile separates for the Japan market and monster receivers for the US market.
 That is how they perceived demand...


----------



## Neogeo333

Too bad those Luxman C-6A never made it to the USA.  They keep all the goodies to themselves. 
 I want a good vintage preamp from the late 80s and early 90s for my TA-N86 and Pioneer M-22.


----------



## chillaxing

so, I'm about to go look at a kenwwod ka-9100. anything I should know and look for in amp? it looks clean and the guy has it hooked up so I can listen. he also has a TT that I would like to get, but have no experience with turn tables. what should I test and look out for?


----------



## SirMarc

That 9100 looks excellent. Dual mono design, 90wpc, and maybe most important, it has vu meters B-) let us know which turntable it is and we'll let you know if its worth purchasing


----------



## chillaxing

sirmarc said:


> That 9100 looks excellent. Dual mono design, 90wpc, and maybe most important, it has vu meters B-) let us know which turntable it is and we'll let you know if its worth purchasing




it's a thorens td125 mkii. the guy said its been serviced and he didn't even assemble it yet. it also comes with a new plinth. he wants 800 for it. it's kind of out of budget but if it's worth it I'll try to get a deal since I'm getting both.


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> That 9100 looks excellent. Dual mono design, 90wpc, and maybe most important, it has vu meters B-) let us know which turntable it is and we'll let you know if its worth purchasing


 

 I owned a Kenwood 9100 when it was current (yes, I am that old!).  It was an awesome piece back then.  I don't know how it would compare to more modern pieces, or even somewhat less vintage pieces, in light of advances in power supplies and MOSFETS and stuff.  I have a Pioneer SA-8500II of the same age and it's not as clean as some newer stuff, but it may need a re-capping - which is totally out of budget right now.
  
 I would listen to noise levels with no signal present, and for noisy switches and pots.  If everything sounds clean then go for it.  A re-cap may be in your future if you want the best out of the amp.
  
 The price on the turntable seems steep, though.  Is he giving you a cartridge?


----------



## parbaked

neogeo333 said:


> Too bad those Luxman C-6A never made it to the USA.  They keep all the goodies to themselves.
> I want a good vintage preamp from the late 80s and early 90s for my TA-N86 and Pioneer M-22.


 
 Maybe you'll find a TA-E86B or the Pioneer C-21 when you get back to the mainland...you always have good stuff!


----------



## jnorris

parbaked said:


> The Japanese manufacturers made audiophile separates for the Japan market and monster receivers for the US market.
> That is how they perceived demand...


 

 Very true.  The general US mass market was much more drawn to the convenience of the receiver.  Audiophiles with sufficient budgetary fortitude for separates, however, wanted nothing to do with anything made in Japan.  The advertisements, however, did still lend an air of street cred to the Japanese manufacturers in the eyes of the general buying public.


----------



## HAWKEYE7

I am the proud owner of a Marantz SR430 stereo receiver I bought new back in 1984. It makes my newly acquired HD650 head phones sound amazing!


----------



## chillaxing

jnorris said:


> I owned a Kenwood 9100 when it was current (yes, I am that old!).  It was an awesome piece back then.  I don't know how it would compare to more modern pieces, or even somewhat less vintage pieces, in light of advances in power supplies and MOSFETS and stuff.  I have a Pioneer SA-8500II of the same age and it's not as clean as some newer stuff, but it may need a re-capping - which is totally out of budget right now.
> 
> I would listen to noise levels with no signal present, and for noisy switches and pots.  If everything sounds clean then go for it.  A re-cap may be in your future if you want the best out of the amp.
> 
> The price on the turntable seems steep, though.  Is he giving you a cartridge?




the guy said it was restored to original spec. by a reputable repair guy


----------



## Thenewguy007

richard51 said:


> I had pay 100 dollars for a Sansui AU 7700.... but nobody know this model here i think.... i will organized a match between the class g Hitachi SR 904  and the Sansui Au 7700.... The Hitachi was a revelation for me.... I buy 4  headphone amps  ( pa2v2-Aune T1-Bravo ocean- Ember )without being totally satisfied of my listening with the He 400.... With the speakers out of the Hitachi it was extraordinary better... with the sorbothane mod. more extraordinary ... Now that i had finally after 2 years listen really to the potential of my HE 400 i am in search of a very good vintage amp at an affordable price....The Hitachi was one the Sansui is the other.... Nobody knows the Sansui AU 7700 ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-sansui-au-7700.586472/
  
 Seems it compares well to the AU-777 & AU-719.


----------



## Luckbad

Pioneer SA-9100 (recapped) on the way.


----------



## Thenewguy007

luckbad said:


> Pioneer SA-9100 (recapped) on the way.


 
  
 Congrats! Tell us how it pairs with your headphones when you get it.


----------



## richard51

thenewguy007 said:


> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-sansui-au-7700.586472/
> 
> Seems it compares well to the AU-777 & AU-719.


 
 great posts ...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thanks very much!


----------



## chillaxing

woo hoo!!!! picked a kenwwod ka9100. now time to do some mods and maybe pick up the wood case, if I can find one

the guy had it hooked up to some Salk SongTowers and it drove them beautifully. the guy was selling the Salk too. was about to pick them up, but had enough self restraint to walk away.


----------



## Oregonian

Congrats on the Kenny!  What are you going to feed it?  CD player?  iDevice?  Turntable?


----------



## chillaxing

oregonian said:


> Congrats on the Kenny!  What are you going to feed it?  CD player?  iDevice?  Turntable?


 
  
  
 right now, i'm gonna use my pc with either streaming or cd, going into a idsd.
  
 Planning to get a turn table, but need to do more research and reading before I decide on one.
  
  
 Yeah, I'm happy with the purchase.  the guy was helping his dad sell off his collect of audio equipment.  The Salks that he had hooked up to the Kenny was brand new.  He said his dad bought them, burned them in for a week, then put them back in the box because he didn't like the sound sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




....people with to much money.  Might go back for more of his goodies


----------



## roadcykler

chillaxing said:


> right now, i'm gonna use my pc with either streaming or cd, going into a idsd.
> 
> Planning to get a turn table, but need to do more research and reading before I decide on one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 He would have saved himself a week if he knew that there is no such thing as "burn in".


----------



## Oregonian

chillaxing said:


> right now, i'm gonna use my pc with either streaming or cd, going into a idsd.
> 
> Planning to get a turn table, but need to do more research and reading before I decide on one.
> 
> ...


 

 So coming out of your PC..............got a USB DAC yet?


----------



## chillaxing

oregonian said:


> So coming out of your PC..............got a USB DAC yet?


 
  
  
 Ya, the iDSD is my DAC


----------



## Oregonian

chillaxing said:


> Ya, the iDSD is my DAC


 

 very cool.


----------



## Francki Conniff

Has anyone mentioned a SAE A14 Integrated amp yet? I still have mine but not with me here. Its on the other side of the world in Mexico. I love that amp 120 wpc and I used it for pushing a set of Bose 601 series II's. I would like to hear the Grado's on it. Purchased it in early early 80's when what I really wanted was there Preamp and Amp set up that was available then ( A501 Amp/ 2100 pre amp) but they were out of my price range. I was just a teenager then.


----------



## chillaxing

Ok, so i tested all the switches and buttons on the ka-9100 when i was testing it out at the original owner's home, and nothing was "off".  So when I got home i didn't open the amp to do a cleaning before using it.  Now that i'm messing with it some more, I'm finding some things.  
  
 1.when plugged into the headphone jack, the speakers won't switch off.  its like the relay isn't working.  into order for the speakers to go off I would need to switch the speaker selection.  I don't think the original owner ever plugged in headphones so i don't think he knew this.
  
 2. when i'm messing with the hpf button sometimes the right side speaker would cut off when the button is engaged.  it only happens on occasions.  
  
 I know the filter buttons are probably dirty, but what about the headphone speaker situation?
  
  
 ps.  LCD-2 is sounding pretty awsome straight from headphone jack, he-500 sounds good but not the best, yet.


----------



## SpeakerBox

francki conniff said:


> Has anyone mentioned a SAE A14 Integrated amp yet? I still have mine but not with me here. Its on the other side of the world in Mexico. I love that amp 120 wpc and I used it for pushing a set of Bose 601 series II's. I would like to hear the Grado's on it. Purchased it in early early 80's when what I really wanted was there Preamp and Amp set up that was available then ( A501 Amp/ 2100 pre amp) but they were out of my price range. I was just a teenager then.


 
  
 I had an SAE 2400L for a while.  Very powerful but a little harsh sounding.


----------



## parbaked

chillaxing said:


> 1.when plugged into the headphone jack, the speakers won't switch off.  its like the relay isn't working.  into order for the speakers to go off I would need to switch the speaker selection.  I don't think the original owner ever plugged in headphones so i don't think he knew this.
> 
> I know the filter buttons are probably dirty, but what about the headphone speaker situation?


 
 That is likely how the headphone should function.
 You can use speakers and headphones together unless you turn off the speakers.
 My Pioneer SA-7100 works like that...


----------



## Oregonian

chillaxing said:


> Ok, so i tested all the switches and buttons on the ka-9100 when i was testing it out at the original owner's home, and nothing was "off".  So when I got home i didn't open the amp to do a cleaning before using it.  Now that i'm messing with it some more, I'm finding some things.
> 
> 1.when plugged into the headphone jack, the speakers won't switch off.  its like the relay isn't working.  into order for the speakers to go off I would need to switch the speaker selection.  I don't think the original owner ever plugged in headphones so i don't think he knew this.
> 
> ...


 

 Like parbaked said, it's how vintage headphone jacks work - you have to turn off the speakers to go headphone only.  Newer, opamp based AV receivers have the relay you are referencing.
  
 The HE-500 is begging for a speaker tap connection................trust me on that.  I have my HE-400 run direct to the taps and did it that way with the HE-6.  Mind boggling how much better they will sound to you.


----------



## chillaxing

parbaked said:


> That is likely how the headphone should function.
> You can use speakers and headphones together unless you turn off the speakers.
> My Pioneer SA-7100 works like that...


 
  
  
 Ok, I thought it was like modern receivers that have a relay to shut off the speakers when the headphone jack is used.
  
  
 ok another thing, i wanted to add a power sub.  What I understand, since i have a pre-out.  I need to split the pre-out and loop the rca back into the power in and with the other wires going to my sub?
  
 edit: why would I need to loop it?  I read the directions to add a sub but don't know why the need for the loop.


----------



## Francki Conniff

speakerbox said:


> I had an SAE 2400L for a while.  Very powerful but a little harsh sounding.


 

 I almost purchased this model on EBay once. I loved that it had forced air cooling on the amplifier. Same power rating as the A501. I actually was collecting SAE items recently but now that I'm in KSA I'm resorting to just relaxing and listening to music in my spare time. Shipping to Saudi is difficult else I would continue my quest for vintage pieces.


----------



## SpeakerBox

francki conniff said:


> I almost purchased this model on EBay once. I loved that it had forced air cooling on the amplifier. Same power rating as the A501. I actually was collecting SAE items recently but now that I'm in KSA I'm resorting to just relaxing and listening to music in my spare time. Shipping to Saudi is difficult else I would continue my quest for vintage pieces.


 
  
 The SAE was part of a very nice dorm room system.  We coupled my SAE 2400L with my roomies DB Systems DB1A preamp and his Qual ESLs and off we went.  Listening bliss!


----------



## SirMarc

chillaxing said:


> it's a thorens td125 mkii. the guy said its been serviced and he didn't even assemble it yet. it also comes with a new plinth. he wants 800 for it. it's kind of out of budget but if it's worth it I'll try to get a deal since I'm getting both.



Sorry I didn't get back you to sooner, but that Thorens is a nice turntable. Check around to see what they're going for. If its in great shape, that might not be a terrible deal


----------



## Skylab

chillaxing said:


> Ok, I thought it was like modern receivers that have a relay to shut off the speakers when the headphone jack is used.
> 
> 
> ok another thing, i wanted to add a power sub.  What I understand, since i have a pre-out.  I need to split the pre-out and loop the rca back into the power in and with the other wires going to my sub?
> ...


. 

You might not. Try it. It just depends how the 9100 works. From looking at the back panel, it looks like the pre out may not be active unless you move that switch to "separate", and if you do that, you have to have something to feed the power amp in jacks or you won't get sound from the speakers.


----------



## richard51

oregonian said:


> Like parbaked said, it's how vintage headphone jacks work - you have to turn off the speakers to go headphone only.  Newer, opamp based AV receivers have the relay you are referencing.
> 
> The HE-500 is begging for a speaker tap connection................trust me on that.  I have my HE-400 run direct to the taps and did it that way with the HE-6.  Mind boggling how much better they will sound to you.


 

 i confirm that about he 400 ...thanks to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Oregonian


----------



## jnorris

`


skylab said:


> .
> 
> You might not. Try it. It just depends how the 9100 works. From looking at the back panel, it looks like the pre out may not be active unless you move that switch to "separate", and if you do that, you have to have something to feed the power amp in jacks or you won't get sound from the speakers.


 
 I'm guessing that the pre-amp output is available regardless of the position of the switch, and it is the power amp input that is switched.  If that's not the case you would need:
  
 two splitters, each consisting of a single male RCA to two male RCA,
 a female to female coupler so you can connect the subwoofer amp
  
 The single male RCA goes to the preamp out, and one leg of the splitter goes to the power amp in on the Pioneer, the other goes through the coupler to your subwoofer amp.


----------



## SirMarc

Does your sub accept speaker wire? If so just run off of speaker B


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Does your sub accept speaker wire? If so just run off of speaker B




This is actually how I run a sub off my SX-1980. Works perfectly. If your sub has speaker-level inputs, and you're not using speakers B, this is the way to go.


----------



## jnorris

skylab said:


> This is actually how I run a sub off my SX-1980. Works perfectly. If your sub has speaker-level inputs, and you're not using speakers B, this is the way to go.


 

 I just connected my amp to the subs' speaker in, and the speakers to the speaker out.  This way the speakers and subs are all controlled together.  It also frees up the B speaker terminals for something else.  I also tried using the preamp out, but found that the subs were still playing even though the speakers were turned off and I was listening to headphones.


----------



## Skylab

I don't like doing it that way. I don't want my main speakers to be run through the subwoofer's high pass filter.

If you don't need the Speakers B, connecting the sub to that and the main speakers to Speakers A will allow everything to be controlled perfectly and also allows the main speakers to run full range. I prefer that, myself.


----------



## jnorris

skylab said:


> I don't like doing it that way. I don't want my main speakers to be run through the subwoofer's high pass filter.
> 
> If you don't need the Speakers B, connecting the sub to that and the main speakers to Speakers A will allow everything to be controlled perfectly and also allows the main speakers to run full range. I prefer that, myself.


 

 I cracked open the subwoofer cabinet and it was just a straight piece of rather beefy wire going from the input to the output.  No high pass filter involved.  There is a low pass filtler built into the subwoofer amp, though.  I'm using Polk 10" subs, one per side, which are fairly simplistic devices.


----------



## chillaxing

skylab said:


> I don't like doing it that way. I don't want my main speakers to be run through the subwoofer's high pass filter.


 
  
  
 Yeah i didnt' want to do that either.  My sub is bedside (i'm a basshead 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and my desktop is about 10ft away, I don't want to many wires running everywhere.
  
 Can I use speaker B for the sub and have speaker taps for my headphones?  This way I'll just turn off the sub when i'm using headphones.


----------



## Skylab

jnorris said:


> I cracked open the subwoofer cabinet and it was just a straight piece of rather beefy wire going from the input to the output.  No high pass filter involved.  There is a low pass filtler built into the subwoofer amp, though.  I'm using Polk 10" subs, one per side, which are fairly simplistic devices.




That's cool,but it's a rare exception, not the rule. Subs almost always have high pass filters for the speakers. 



chillaxing said:


> Yeah i didnt' want to do that either.  My sub is bedside (i'm a basshead  ) and my desktop is about 10ft away, I don't want to many wires running everywhere.
> 
> Can I use speaker B for the sub and have speaker taps for my headphones?  This way I'll just turn off the sub when i'm using headphones.




Meaning the headphones will be in speakers A, and no other speakers connected? Or you want speakers, sub, and headphones?


----------



## chillaxing

skylab said:


> That's cool,but it's a rare exception, not the rule. Subs almost always have high pass filters for the speakers.
> Meaning the headphones will be in speakers A, and no other speakers connected? Or you want speakers, sub, and headphones?


 
  
 speakers on Speaker A and headphone and sub on Speaker B.


----------



## chillaxing

whats the simplest way to tap for SE plugs?


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> This is actually how I run a sub off my SX-1980. Works perfectly. If your sub has speaker-level inputs, and you're not using speakers B, this is the way to go.


 

 Exactly how I run my sub on the SX-1050 for my TV system.


----------



## Luckbad

This is what awaits for my bedtime listening session tonight...
  

  
 Recapped Pioneer SA-9100!


----------



## Luckbad

Oh wow... Pioneer SA-9100 into JVC HA-DX2000 is heavenly. I'm not even using a DAC between my Galaxy S5 and the amplifier.


----------



## Oregonian

luckbad said:


> Oh wow... Pioneer SA-9100 into JVC HA-DX2000 is heavenly. I'm not even using a DAC between my Galaxy S5 and the amplifier.


 

 You're really going to love it when you kick up the input quality !  Bet the bass is incredible!


----------



## Luckbad

Yep, it'll eventually be fed by a Master 11 or similar. My mom's in town and staying in my computer/audio room, but the amp is moving there soon.

The bass is great! 50Hz up 6dB + 100Hz up 2dB + loudness on = ears shaking.


----------



## chillaxing

Just wanted to give an update on the Kenny 9100.  This old thing is fantastic.  Made my desktop speakers sound much better.  More dynamic, imaging is stellar, and great stage depth.
  
 For headphones, i love it.  Its warm, takes out some of the harshness, really dynamic, and really engaging now.  The lyr-2 is good, but the vintage amps are just so much better.  Only complaint is the bass tone.  If you add to much you really muddy up the joint, but that just nitpicking.  Now its time to look for the matching graphic eq for this thing and a TT
  
 also, can't wait for my trs jack to come in so I can see whats it like straight from the tap.


----------



## Skylab

Having fun right now hanging out in my basement watching Sunday Night Football and spinning some Jethro Tull on reel


----------



## SirMarc

Nice man! Two questions, which Tull album, and do you use a ladder to get to that turntable? Lol


----------



## Skylab

Ha! No the TT isn't as high up as it looks 

The tape is MU: The Best of Jethro Tull


----------



## wotts

Quote:


sirmarc said:


> Nice man! Two questions, which Tull album, and do you use a ladder to get to that turntable? Lol


 
  
  


skylab said:


> Ha! No the TT isn't as high up as it looks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I don't know about that...seemed high up to me. Skylab is just tall.


----------



## SirMarc

Lol, cool man. I spent the majority of the day spinning vinyl. Good times...


----------



## SirMarc

I was kind of surprised you weren't spinning one of the Steven Wilson remixes on vinyl, Aqualung and Benefit are ridiculously good


----------



## jnorris

Shouldn't those speakers be the other way around so that the tweeter/midrange units are on the outside edge?  That would give you almost 2 feet more separation at the frequencies that matter.


----------



## SirMarc

That's how I always did it too, but maybe it works better in his room to have them in. I'm still wondering if Skylab is like 9 feet tall. Those feet do look rather large lol


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> That's how I always did it too, but maybe it works better in his room to have them in. I'm still wondering if Skylab is like 9 feet tall. Those feet do look rather large lol


 

 Hence the name Skylab, perhaps...


----------



## Skylab

jnorris said:


> Shouldn't those speakers be the other way around so that the tweeter/midrange units are on the outside edge?  That would give you almost 2 feet more separation at the frequencies that matter.






sirmarc said:


> That's how I always did it too, but maybe it works better in his room to have them in.




Right...I tried them outside but in spite of how the room may look from the pic that meant they were too far to the outside and there was no stable center image. The listening position isn't as far back as I would like but not much I can do about the foundation wall 

I'm 49 years old and have been at this a while...


----------



## chillaxing

skylab said:


> Right...I tried them outside but in spite of how the room may look from the pic that meant they were too far to the outside and there was no stable center image. The listening position isn't as far back as I would like but not much I can do about the foundation wall
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What kind of speakers are those?  I've been thinking about building a dedicated listening room and wanted to upgrade my speakers.  I don't know if I should go for vintage or new with some RAAL ribbons.  I've always wanted to try Ascend Acoustics, so they are at the top of the list.
  
 I was also thinking of building my own speakers with some raw drivers but I'm not to good at reading schematics, so putting together the crossovers is kind of intimidating.


----------



## Skylab

They are B&W DM-16's. I like them a lot, although I do prefer the Pioneer DSS-9's in my attic rig. My "best" speakers of course are my B&W Nautilus 800's, but it's nice to have variety


----------



## SirMarc

I'm actually considering picking up a pair of Golden Ear Triton 7's. Awesome sounding speakers for 1400. They have a folded ribbon tweeter. Heard them last week and was impressed. I hate to get rid of my Dahlquist dq-20's, but they are just too big for my room. 
I went out last week and listened to B&W, Paradigm, Martin Logan, Focal and Golden Ear models under 1500, and the Golden Ears were in another league. The Focals were pretty nice, and were in the lead until I heard the Golden Ears, then it was game over. I may pick them up next month. I'll let you guys know


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> They are B&W DM-16's. I like them a lot, although I do prefer the Pioneer DSS-9's in my attic rig. My "best" speakers of course are my B&W Nautilus 800's, but it's nice to have variety



I've heard the Nautilus 800's, awesome speakers man


----------



## chillaxing

skylab said:


> They are B&W DM-16's. I like them a lot, although I do prefer the Pioneer DSS-9's in my attic rig. My "best" speakers of course are my B&W Nautilus 800's, but it's nice to have variety


 
  
 If i had a set of 800's I think I would like them best too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Wait.. so you have a basement rig, an attic rig, and I bet the 800's are in the main listening room...
  
  

  
  
  
  


sirmarc said:


> I'm actually considering picking up a pair of Golden Ear Triton 7's. Awesome sounding speakers for 1400. They have a folded ribbon tweeter. Heard them last week and was impressed. I hate to get rid of my Dahlquist dq-20's, but they are just too big for my room.
> I went out last week and listened to B&W, Paradigm, Martin Logan, Focal and Golden Ear models under 1500, and the Golden Ears were in another league. The Focals were pretty nice, and were in the lead until I heard the Golden Ears, then it was game over. I may pick them up next month. I'll let you guys know


 
  
 Yup, thats the same budget that allowed for myselft. How are the Golden Ears?  I'm looking for something on the warmer side with great imaging and staging.
  
 Looks like I'm going to have to go visit all the high end audio shops to audition everything....bummer...


----------



## SirMarc

Definitely check out the Golden Ears. I was looking for the same thing as you. I'd say they are on the warmer side of neutral, very non fatiguing with a very good soundstage. They also imaged very well. I'm just afraid when I get them home they won't sound as good as my dahlquists. Problem is my chill room is only 10x12 and that's way to small for them. When I had them in a 7.1 system, all the other speakers made up for it, but in 2 channel, the bass is boomy and I'm sitting too close for everything to come together. When I bought them years ago they were in a much bigger room and were sublime


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> I've heard the Nautilus 800's, awesome speakers man







chillaxing said:


> If i had a set of 800's I think I would like them best too
> 
> Wait.. so you have a basement rig, an attic rig, and I bet the 800's are in the main listening room...




Yup, although the "main listening room" is my family room, and its heavily used by my teenage son. Which is totally cool. I have lost of places to hang out and listen to music


----------



## SirMarc

The only part about the Golden Ears I didn't like is how they look. They have a grill sock like definitive technology speakers, the guy who founded Def Tech also founded Golden Ear,so go figure. I like wood, but the most important thing is how they sound, so screw it...


----------



## chillaxing

sirmarc said:


> The only part about the Golden Ears I didn't like is how they look. They have a grill sock like definitive technology speakers, the guy who founded Def Tech also founded Golden Ear,so go figure. I like wood, but the most important thing is how they sound, so screw it...


 
  
  
 Looking at the towers, they do have that def tec look to them.  I never use grills cause I like the raw driver look, but ya, sound is the moooost important...


----------



## SirMarc

The Focals were gorgeous with a really nice woodgrain veneer, but the Golden Ears just sounded better. Oh well...


----------



## chillaxing

I recently heard a car setup with some focal  upotia's and they sound great.  though this car was tuned beautifully (70% of making a car sound good) for SQ competition, its still sounded bright to me.  A lot of people say that focals are a tad bright in general.  I'm going to audition some home speakers to see if this hold true for their home audio line.  I'm already expecting the same thing since they probably use the same drivers.


----------



## SirMarc

I didn't find them bright, and I hate bright speakers. They were focal chorus 714's. The golden ears were a good amount better though...


----------



## SirMarc

Audition as many as you can though, everyone's ears and tastes are different


----------



## chillaxing

.....uuhhgg, the left channel just died on the my Kenny 9100.  I turned everything on, let stuff warm up for a couple minutes, plugged in headphones, pressed play and left channel had no sound.  At first I thought it was my lcd's but then I directly plugged them into the idsd headphone out and there was sound from both drivers.  Plugged it back in the 9100, nothing.  Checked all connections, and used only my desktop speakers, samething.  The channel not working......
  
 I think I know what happened.  I used one of the speaker B for my sub and last night I saw that the left vu meter was moving when everything was off.  I unplugged my sub and the meter dropped.  I guess this was happening ever since i hooked up the sub but didn't notice it till last night.  I guess it was to late.  I think the amp from the sub was sending power back to the left channel and fried something.  I'm gonna take it apart to take a look....


----------



## Skylab

Do you have a multimeter ? If so, you should check for DC offset. 

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/amplifier-distortion-dc-offset-and-you.5634/


----------



## jnorris

skylab said:


> Right...I tried them outside but in spite of how the room may look from the pic that meant they were too far to the outside and there was no stable center image. The listening position isn't as far back as I would like but not much I can do about the foundation wall
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm 63, and when you were 10 years old I was working in a stereo store selling all that Pioneer equipment you've amassed there (and buying a lot of it myself at wholesale).


----------



## jnorris

chillaxing said:


> .....uuhhgg, the left channel just died on the my Kenny 9100.  I turned everything on, let stuff warm up for a couple minutes, plugged in headphones, pressed play and left channel had no sound.  At first I thought it was my lcd's but then I directly plugged them into the idsd headphone out and there was sound from both drivers.  Plugged it back in the 9100, nothing.  Checked all connections, and used only my desktop speakers, samething.  The channel not working......
> 
> I think I know what happened.  I used one of the speaker B for my sub and last night I saw that the left vu meter was moving when everything was off.  I unplugged my sub and the meter dropped.  I guess this was happening ever since i hooked up the sub but didn't notice it till last night.  I guess it was to late.  I think the amp from the sub was sending power back to the left channel and fried something.  I'm gonna take it apart to take a look....


 

 Dumb question...did you check the fuses?  Pop the cover and look around for any internal fuses as well.
  
 I've got a bunch of vintage stuff and the one thing I've learned is that with equipment that old you can't always count on it to work.


----------



## chillaxing

Thanks guys I'll check everything. 

I unplugged the amp for a couple hours and when I plugged it back in it started working again for about an hr. then left channel went out again. Any other ideas what might be going on?


----------



## SirMarc

My guess would be too much current draw from the sub. Did you disconnect the sub from B when you tested it?


----------



## jnorris

chillaxing said:


> Thanks guys I'll check everything.
> 
> I unplugged the amp for a couple hours and when I plugged it back in it started working again for about an hr. then left channel went out again. Any other ideas what might be going on?


 

 Sounds like the amp is overheating.  SirMarc may be right.  How exactly did you hook the sub up?


----------



## SirMarc

I'm wondering what resistance the amp is seeing. I know these amps don't like under 4 ohms


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> I'm wondering what resistance the amp is seeing. I know these amps don't like under 4 ohms


 

 That's why I was wondering how the sub was set up.  Could be the sub has a common ground on the input and the 9100 is not built that way.  It could also be that the summing circuitry ( which joins left and right into mono for passage to the sub amp ) is faulty.
  
 It could also be that whoever worked on the unit left a cold-solder joint that opens after a while.


----------



## SirMarc

You're probably right. Moral of the story chillaxing, pull the speaker wires running to the sub off and see what happens


----------



## jnorris

Just checked the schematic and all speakers are common ground - so scratch that.  I also thought this amp might have dual power supplies like the SA-8500II, but it doesn't.  I'm thinking it was hooked up incorrectly and is overheating.


----------



## SirMarc

I thought the ka-9100 was a dual mono design, it should have 2 power supplies. I checked his post and he only had the sub hooked up to one channel. Why I wonder? And I also wonder if running A left and right and only one channel of B could be the culprit. I'm guessing you're also a tech jnorris lol


----------



## chillaxing

The sub is a Hsu stf-2. I ran a wire from the speaker B, left side, to the subs high-output-in on the sub. When I tested the 9100, I uncooked the sub.


----------



## chillaxing

I didn't think that running one channel to the sub would be a problem... I ran out of speaker wire....


----------



## SirMarc

Keep in mind we're just guessing here


----------



## Skylab

Well, it could just be coincidence that the sub was hooked up only to the left channel, and that's the channel that is now having problems...but it does set off some alarms...

Make absolutely sure there aren't any stray strands of speaker wire touching each other, and run just the A speakers to the main speakers, no sub, and see what happens. If you still get shutdown on one channel after a while, I strongly recommend checking DC offset.


----------



## SirMarc

Wouldn't the DC offset being too high in one channel be more dangerous to the speaker than the amp?


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Wouldn't the DC offset being too high in one channel be more dangerous to the speaker than the amp?




Well, theoretically, yes. However, many amps have circuitry that shuts down the speaker outputs if the DC Offset gets too high, in order to protect the speakers from exactly the damage you're referring to. So I thought perhaps that might be happening.


----------



## SirMarc

Yeah, maybe because its dual mono, it has two protection relays. Who knows. Good luck chillaxing


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> I thought the ka-9100 was a dual mono design, it should have 2 power supplies. I checked his post and he only had the sub hooked up to one channel. Why I wonder? And I also wonder if running A left and right and only one channel of B could be the culprit. I'm guessing you're also a tech jnorris lol


 

 One big power transformer and two large filter caps, whereas the SA-8500II has 2 and 4, respectively.  The sub should have been run from both channels, but since the input impedance of the sub amp is probably pretty high I doubt the difference in load would have made that much of a difference.  A stray wire is a very likely culprit.
  
 The DC bias being off would have caused the DC offset circuitry to go into overdrive and may be what's cutting out the channel.  Most amps of that vintage touted "Output Capacitorless" circuitry which, without protective circuitry, would endanger the speakers should the bias shift.  It could also be a component failure - I mean the thing is almost 40 years old!


----------



## SirMarc

Kenwood ka-9100, not a pioneer. I do agree with everything else you said though lol


----------



## chillaxing

Ok, so I came home and let the amp run for a while and the same thing, left channel went out.  It isn't completely silent when this happens.   So now, i'm gonna take thing apart on the weekend.  thanks guys.


----------



## SirMarc

Damn, sorry man. Do you have someone in the area that can fix it?


----------



## chillaxing

I live in california and travel from Los Angeles to the Central Valley on the monthly basis.  So I should be able to find a good repair man.  I'm gonna read the link that Skylab sent and ask around on AK to try to fix this myselft. I don't have a problem tinkering around as long as I know what to look for and how to fix it.  But if all things fail, I'll take to a repair shop.
  
  
 Thought I say this here.  Anyone in the california area that can help?  Much appreciated.


----------



## SirMarc

Good luck man


----------



## chillaxing

thank you Sir.
  
 I was really enjoying this amp.  Warm, good imaging, gobs of power.  Was about to sell all the headphone amps.  oh well, lesson learned.
  
 Even with this mishap, I am totally on the vintage amp train.


----------



## SirMarc

I'm a technician by trade, I'm pretty sure I could fix it with help from the guys at AK, but probably because I'm a technician, I'd rather have an expert in there


----------



## SirMarc

Meant if one of mine broke lol


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> Kenwood ka-9100, not a pioneer. I do agree with everything else you said though lol


 

 Yes, you're right, I was getting confused with Luckbad's Pioneer SA-9100 earlier in this thread.  The Kenwood KA-9100 (which I owned back in the day powering my Genesis Physics III speakers) is indeed dual power supply.  I believe the introduction of that model forced Pioneer to rebuild the SA-8500 into the dual power supply SA-8500II.


----------



## jnorris

chillaxing said:


> I live in california and travel from Los Angeles to the Central Valley on the monthly basis.  So I should be able to find a good repair man.  I'm gonna read the link that Skylab sent and ask around on AK to try to fix this myselft. I don't have a problem tinkering around as long as I know what to look for and how to fix it.  But if all things fail, I'll take to a repair shop.
> 
> 
> Thought I say this here.  Anyone in the california area that can help?  Much appreciated.


 
  
 If it's not something obvious I wouldn't try to fix it yourself - especially if it needs soldering.  A few seconds too long with the soldering iron and the traces will start to lift off the board and you'll really have a dead amp.  A number of repair shops won't go near a device that shows evidence of amateur tampering.


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> I thought the ka-9100 was a dual mono design, it should have 2 power supplies. I checked his post and he only had the sub hooked up to one channel. Why I wonder? And I also wonder if running A left and right and only one channel of B could be the culprit. I'm guessing you're also a tech jnorris lol


 

 I'm not a tech, but I play one on TV...


----------



## Thenewguy007

What do Loudness switches do on vintage receivers?
 When I switch it on the Fisher 500c, I get monster bass.
  
 Is that like one of those fake super bass options like in cheaper portable amps or does that switch just give more power to receiver?


----------



## Mr Rick

thenewguy007 said:


> What do Loudness switches do on vintage receivers?
> When I switch it on the Fisher 500c, I get monster bass.
> 
> Is that like one of those fake super bass options like in cheaper portable amps or does that switch just give more power to receiver?


 
  
 Here you go:
  
 http://www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=loudnesscontrol_ts&version=print


----------



## Mechans1

The loudness button was implemented to help compensate for the loss of low frequency sound when the amp is being used in a low volume setting.  Yes it is supposed to bring out more bass, the button is working as intended.  It should make the sound fuller as well as just bass-ier.


----------



## komhst

mechans1 said:


> The loudness button was implemented to help compensate for the loss of low frequency sound when the amp is being used in a low volume setting.  Yes it is supposed to bring out more bass, the button is working as intended.  It should make the sound fuller as well as just bass-ier.


 

 ...and it should be turned off when the amplifier plays in normal and higher levels.


----------



## Thenewguy007

komhst said:


> ...and it should be turned off when the amplifier plays in normal and higher levels.


 
  
 But it adds _sooo _much more bass rumble.
 It transforms my Sennheiser into a Fostex in terms of lower bass.


----------



## SirMarc

thenewguy007 said:


> But it adds _sooo_ much more bass rumble.
> It transforms my Sennheiser into a Fostex in terms of lower bass.



If you enjoy it, use it. Most of us want a more neutral sound and don't like to touch the tone controls or loudness, but do what works for you...


----------



## PhoenixG

thenewguy007 said:


> But it adds _sooo _much more bass rumble.
> It transforms my Sennheiser into a Fostex in terms of lower bass.


 
  
  


sirmarc said:


> If you enjoy it, use it. Most of us want a more neutral sound and don't like to touch the tone controls or loudness, but do what works for you...


 
 I like it for DSOTM to get all 70 heartbeats before the music starts. And if I want to impress people with the dishes rattling...


----------



## Skylab

One of my favorite things about the SX-1980 are the incredibly flexible tone controls. GOOD tone controls are a godsend.


----------



## richard51

skylab said:


> One of my favorite things about the SX-1980 are the incredibly flexible tone controls. GOOD tone controls are a godsend.


 

 i had bought a Sansui AU 7700 and the tech said to me that the tone controls are very good ....If you said so also it is a +


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> One of my favorite things about the SX-1980 are the incredibly flexible tone controls. GOOD tone controls are a godsend.


 
  
 Yes - I use those exclusively on the 1250.  Loudness stays off.
  
 Plus I recapped most of the tone control board with film caps - a little crowded but sure sounds nice!


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> One of my favorite things about the SX-1980 are the incredibly flexible tone controls.* GOOD tone controls are a godsend.*


 
 x100


----------



## OldMcMetal

*Mostly unkown for those living outside Germany or parts of Europe, Dual CV 6020.  Bought it on a bargain sale at Ebay and didn`t expect that much. Connected this little piece of metal with my Denon DCD 890 and the AKG K 612. Weird combination? Maybe! If it comes to the quality of listening it`s perfect. Not High End, whatever this means, but very pleasant and nothing that makes your ears bleed. Mids and highs are  clear and bass is very low. Didn`t listen to my newer Denon stuff for the last couple of weeks.*


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> I brought this monster home today. I'm not sure I will ever buy another amp after this one. @Silent One will understand as has has essentially the same unit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 A BIG Chug out to ya!




  
 Will fully restore mine down the road...


----------



## OldMcMetal

*It`s not a trick, it`s a Sansui. Unbelievable nowadays that such heavy weight champions were once popular. I rember that these items were sold at prices that were worth a new Toyata. *


----------



## chillaxing

Does anyone know if new A/V receivers share a common ground?
  
 I want to try the speaker taps from my modern yamaha.


----------



## SirMarc

Sitting here after a hard day listening to Aja on vinyl with my Sansui 9090 and all is good with the world...


----------



## Mechans1

You should be able to hook up your speakers to a modern A/V receiver.  It should have a pos and neg  terminals which your speakers have, ---  even really old speakers have those corresponding terminals?  Not sure what your question is?
 I have a Fisher 400 tube receiver that uses the C or Common instead of a neg terminal.  Is that what you asking about?


----------



## chillaxing

Sorry i assumed that since we are on head-fi, that people will already know what i'm tallking about.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wanted to use the speakers taps for headphone use.  Like how i use my ka-9100 and how many people use the emotiva mini-x from the speaker tap.


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Sitting here after a hard day listening to Aja on vinyl with my Sansui 9090 and all is good with the world...




It really doesn't get much better than that.


----------



## Silent One

A nod to celebrate PhoenixG's recent purchase .::  ::.
  
 The little 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sibling seen in the wild Monday night at the Redondo Beach Public Library.
  

  
 Patrons inside the library were speaking in _hushed _tones, so I politely _jacked _Phono 1.
 Two hours later, I arrived for a session @ SBUX. Out came the 4-pin xlr adapter for the
 modded HE-6. I_ tapped _the speaker outputs and cranked up the volume!


----------



## parbaked

silent one said:


> A nod to celebrate PhoenixG's recent purchase .::  ::.
> 
> The little
> 
> ...


 
 That's great!
 Cheers!!


----------



## chillaxing

silent one said:


> A nod to celebrate PhoenixG's recent purchase .::  ::.
> 
> The little
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 OK.... now I've seen it all.
  
 you even brought a dolly for it
  
 you sir, are the man of the year.
  
 LOL
  
 By the way, what model is that?  
  
 I live on the east side, but now when i'm in redondo, i will visit the library to catch you there.


----------



## PhoenixG

Looking at the specs, it seems like we have just about the same unit. Just a few more watts out the back of mine, but essentially the same front end. It's pretty fantastic sounding though isn't it?
  
 Quote:


silent one said:


> A nod to celebrate PhoenixG's recent purchase .::  ::.
> 
> The little
> 
> ...


----------



## ssrock64

I've seen some pretty inconvenient portable rigs, but that has to take the cake. In a good way, of course.


----------



## Silent One

@ Skylab





 You know how driven we can get in this hobby...
  
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *parbaked* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> That's great!
> Cheers!!


 
 For me, audio has always been fun! Though, through the years I've seen many a forum where members are ready to drop the gloves...sad!
 You know, despite my being inside the library listening (trying to anyway...) for two hours, I managed to actually hear one full track undisturbed - at closing time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Several male teens and older gents kept stopping to talk. Many loitered nearby waiting for the previous person to walk away. Rather than get frustrated, I patiently answered all questions with delight. We've all been there when we've seen audio gear that made our antennas go straight up! 
  
 Same pleasant distractions @ SBUX from interested males. But since all my gear temporarily resides in storage, when I'm starving for music I take selected pieces out and just hit the road, quiet sessions or no! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


chillaxing said:


> OK.... now I've seen it all.
> 
> you even brought a dolly for it
> 
> ...


 
 I've the Sansui G-22000. Hence, the _little sibling _comment to PhoenixG's G-33000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
_Are you ready?! Three...two...one...Lights Out!_
  

  
  
  
  


phoenixg said:


> Looking at the specs, it seems like we have just about the same unit. Just a few more watts out the back of mine, but essentially the same front end. It's pretty fantastic sounding though isn't it?


 
 Yup. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 First time I ever even heard of or seen pix of this grand 2-piece affair was online in 2013. classicaudio.com was restoring a G-33000 and I couldn't 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




believe my eyes. I actually visited the site in search of a pre-owned Pioneer to buy - something higher up in the line than the two already owned. 
  
 Reading up on both the models, I decided to buy whichever one I'd find first due to their rarity. 
  
  


ssrock64 said:


> I've seen some pretty inconvenient portable rigs, but that has to take the cake. In a good way, of course.


 
 Are you familiar with the classic 1979 R&B hit by McFadden & Whitehead "Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now" ? That's how I feel when it's time to wheel my goodies out of storage.


----------



## 432789

I use a JVC A-X3 integrated amp as a headphone amp (which sounds almost unreal with my hd600 and t90, sooo good), people say all A-X models sound the same but with different power output so that would include the JVC A-X9, which is the best amp JVC has ever made, wonder if anyone here has compared an A-X model to any other amp, it would be nice to know (have an idea) where it stands.


----------



## Mechans1

Very unusual to see much about JVC.  I'm also noted that Kenwood corp. stuff is also not present.  A KA-7100 was my amp for 25 + years from high school until my kids were almost in high school , before the vol knob just spun freely and I was afraid of even trying to replace it.  I bought a few of them and KA-9100s  off Ebay because my son wanted to have what I had, but they were all in bad shape, regardless of advertised condition.  I gave up.  In pursuing this however I found that Kenwood engineers gave birth to TRIO corp.  the direct antecedent to Accuphase, which I also noted isn't a line covered by Audiioclassic.com.  I bought their very first pre, when they were still inexpensive relics of the past " as is" and it worked well for a couple of years.  The jig or gig is up on old accuphase now and chasing them is an expensive endeavor indeed.


----------



## OldMcMetal

Whilst listening to my favorite music with Denon PMA 520 AE combined with a nearly 28 years old DCD 1500 and the excellent AKG K 612 my thoughts go back to times long gone. I remember owning a Pioneer amp from around 1970. Did it sound bad when I bought for nearly nothing at Ebay in 2011. Not really. Most of the Kenwoods that came and went could also stand the test of time. Same with so called "lo fi" stuff like JVC, Akai, to name but two. Will any of my new Denon CD-machines(520/500) run for 30 years without any service? My DCD 1800 R from around 1984 does!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sometimes I wish I were born in an earlier age - seems like almost everything that is built now is garbage.


----------



## roadcykler

speakerbox said:


> Sometimes I wish I were born in an earlier age - seems like almost everything that is built now is garbage.


 
  
 Not at all. Peachtree audio is but one of many companies making quality, reasonably priced integrated amps. Outlaw audio makes receivers as do several other companies.


----------



## BobG55

mechans1 said:


> Very unusual to see much about JVC.  I'm also noted that Kenwood corp. stuff is also not present.  A KA-7100 was my amp for 25 + years from high school until my kids were almost in high school , before the vol knob just spun freely and I was afraid of even trying to replace it.  I bought a few of them and KA-9100s  off Ebay because my son wanted to have what I had, but they were all in bad shape, regardless of advertised condition.  I gave up.  In pursuing this however I found that Kenwood engineers gave birth to TRIO corp.  the direct antecedent to Accuphase, which I also noted isn't a line covered by Audiioclassic.com.  I bought their very first pre, when they were still inexpensive relics of the past " as is" and it worked well for a couple of years.  The jig or gig is up on old accuphase now and chasing them is an expensive endeavor indeed.


 

 The jig might be up for you Mechans since you seem to have had bad luck with the purchases you mentioned.  I can tell you that I've owned a Kenwood KA8006 integrated amp for around 8 years now and it works like a charm.  I'm listening to it as I write these words.  I was with my older brother when he bought it in 1974 and was jubilant when he offered it to me, free about 8 years ago.  I had it serviced for around $50.00 and it works and sounds fantastic.  I listen to my music on CDs & have the following setup : Teac PD-H600> coax > Benchmark DAC1 HDR> RCA> KA8006 and SE my HP into the amp HP output.  I've owned a few high priced HP amps (GS-X mk2, Taurus mkII, BHA-1, etc.) & this combination by which I include the KA8006 is the best I've owned.  I don't foresee buying another HP amp in the future.  The only HP amp I own & like is the MAD Ear+ HD which is nice w/ some of the Grados I own.


----------



## OldMcMetal

Not everything that glitters is gold. Even in the glorydays of home hifi. A amplifier that still runs for 40 or more years without any service can be called solid build. Today when most of the hifi gear is China made and more than affordable, less than 300 EUR for the Denon PMA 720, one shouldn`t expect to much lifetime


----------



## SpeakerBox

I was referring mainly to the decline in consumer level audio - not the more high end stuff.  I have two Rowland amps that are built like tanks.


----------



## Luckbad

roadcykler said:


> Not at all. Peachtree audio is but one of many companies making quality, reasonably priced integrated amps. Outlaw audio makes receivers as do several other companies.


 
  
 Don't forget my beloved Audio-GD! Some day I wanted to add one of their power amps to my Master-11 setup.


----------



## Benny-x

So, my hopeful, soon to be Vintage Brethern, I've been pointed here in hopes of getting some help 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I've always liked the look and sound of Pioneer's 1975-85 series amps, especially the Fluoroscan series, and I've been itching to get my own. But...
  
 I have painstakingly built and now run an end to end balanced system, I'd like to extend that to a vintage amp if I could. I'm not totally of the camp that balanced sounds better, I've just built around the idea and I like the connectors   I also like the quality of the Mogami or Canare cables and trust in what I'm getting from them vs. the minefield of RCA connectors and audiophile cabling. 
  
 So, what I'm looking for is a vintage amp of good sound that can be fed with balanced, 3pin XLR cables from my DAC or PRE. The output of the amp can be the normal red/black speaker taps, no issues there. I'm just looking for balanced inputs. 
  
 Now the other idea I've wondered about is "balancing" the inputs of a Pioneer SA-9800 manually. Since the amp itself has a balanced topology and balanced outputs, it couldn't be that hard to add properly configured 3pin XLR inputs and pull out a pair or two of the RCA inputs. 
  
 So, if anyone can help me find a balanced input vintage amp, it'd be greatly appreciated. Or if anyone knows where I could go to look into balancing an amp, please point me there   Hopefully I'll be joining your ranks soon enough


----------



## parbaked

> Originally Posted by *Benny-x* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> So, my hopeful, soon to be Vintage Brethern, I've been pointed here in hopes of getting some help
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think your best solution is an adapter cable. 
 2 x RCA on one end and whatever balanced connectors you need on the other...done.


----------



## Benny-x

I've known about the adaptors, but they're not an option here. Thanks for the idea, but I really want to stick to balanced on a application level, not an aesthetic one. Every piece of gear I now have is balanced, not by connection type, but by design.


----------



## analogsurviver

benny-x said:


> I've known about the adaptors, but they're not an option here. Thanks for the idea, but I really want to stick to balanced on a application level, not an aesthetic one. Every piece of gear I now have is balanced, not by connection type, but by design.


 
 No such thing as a vintage balanced receivers.
  
 Balanced started appearing in consumer high end audio separates years after receivers fell out of vogue.
  
 There _might _be some lone wolfs that are internally balanced and only have unbalanced RCA inputs - but that would drive the cost up so much to be seriously overpriced relative to single ended competition. Possible yes, likely no.
  
 Balanced is WAAAY overrated for consumer audio. Think about the fact that none of the true measurement microphones do not use balanced connections - XLR is there unheard of.


----------



## parbaked

benny-x said:


> I've known about the adaptors, but they're not an option here. Thanks for the idea, but I really want to stick to balanced on a application level, not an aesthetic one. Every piece of gear I now have is balanced, not by connection type, but by design.


 
 Then forget about vintage equipment which is from an era that predates the brilliant idea to sell 'balanced' gear to audiophiles...


----------



## jnorris

benny-x said:


> So, my hopeful, soon to be Vintage Brethern, I've been pointed here in hopes of getting some help
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I hate to burst your bubble, but if you're that into audio, the consumer-based Pioneer stuff is just not that good.  The line amps are noisy, the phono sections even noisier, and the sound quality tends to be strident and 2 dimensional.  If you're into their looks I can't argue there - they were striking looking.


----------



## PhoenixG

jnorris said:


> I hate to burst your bubble, but if you're that into audio, the consumer-based Pioneer stuff is just not that good.  The line amps are noisy, the phono sections even noisier, and the sound quality tends to be strident and 2 dimensional.  If you're into their looks I can't argue there - they were striking looking.


 
 Shots fired. The man is looking at one of their TOTL amplifiers. It's like telling the man climbing Everest that Nepal is an average of 7000 FT up. He's looking for the exceptional unit.
  
 I'm not sure if there is a benefit to retrofitting a balanced input onto a device that wasn't made for it. Unless you're 100% sure the device was made a certain way or are willing to add the flipping/adding circuitry on to it, you might be better off with an adaptor or RCA input. You can probably find an adaptor that does more than just pulling off the + lead and preserves the qualities you're looking for.


----------



## analogsurviver

As a "collateral damage" ( I was looking for measurements of Beveridge 2SW loudspeaker, which was measured as having 0.03% THD over much of its frequency range close to max output - with a microphone in an anechoic chamber ) I stumbled upon these :
  
 http://www.annuarioaudio.it/vintage-hi-fi/test-recensioni-prove/stereoplay-a/
  
 There are vintage receivers and amplifiers tested, sometimes even X vs Y :
  
 http://www.annuarioaudio.it/vintage-hi-fi/test-recensioni-prove/stereoplay-s/
  
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81737880/stereoplay-k/kenwood-ka-7100-sansui-au-517.pdf
  
 There is a nice selection of vintage audio measurements - among other things, one of the very few measurements on Transcriptors Vestigal tonearm ( "hidden" in report on ADC Super XLM II  cartridge ).


----------



## jnorris

Shame I can't read Italian - I would have been interested in reading the Shure V15III article (I have the V15IV), and the Pioneer SA-8500II (which has been relegated to storage under the ottoman).  I'm sure there are other interesting articles there!
  
 As for the the 9800 being TOTL...back then TOTL wasn't necessarily so much about sound quality as it was watts/channel, physical size and bells and whistles (more switches, more controls, more options).  Audiophile snobbery aside, there was a reason why even down-to-earth audio magazines like Sensible Sound chose to ignore the Japanese mass-market product, although their high end products (Pioneer Elite - not the SA series, and Kenwood's Accuphases) were sometimes well regarded.
  
 I also agree that there will probably be no improvement found by adding balanced adapters to the Pioneer, and it may also impact the sound negatively


----------



## Luckbad

jnorris said:


> Shame I can't read Italian - I would have been interested in reading the Shure V15III article (I have the V15IV), and the Pioneer SA-8500II (which has been relegated to storage under the ottoman).  I'm sure there are other interesting articles there!
> 
> As for the the 9800 being TOTL...back then TOTL wasn't necessarily so much about sound quality as it was watts/channel, physical size and bells and whistles (more switches, more controls, more options).  Audiophile snobbery aside, there was a reason why even down-to-earth audio magazines like Sensible Sound chose to ignore the Japanese mass-market product, although their high end products (Pioneer Elite - not the SA series, and Kenwood's Accuphases) were sometimes well regarded.
> 
> I also agree that there will probably be no improvement found by adding balanced adapters to the Pioneer, and it may also impact the sound negatively


 
  
 Pioneer SA-8500 II under the ottoman? What?! Send it here! XOXO


----------



## analogsurviver

jnorris said:


> Shame I can't read Italian - I would have been interested in reading the Shure V15III article (I have the V15IV), and the Pioneer SA-8500II (which has been relegated to storage under the ottoman).  I'm sure there are other interesting articles there!
> 
> As for the the 9800 being TOTL...back then TOTL wasn't necessarily so much about sound quality as it was watts/channel, physical size and bells and whistles (more switches, more controls, more options).  Audiophile snobbery aside, there was a reason why even down-to-earth audio magazines like Sensible Sound chose to ignore the Japanese mass-market product, although their high end products (Pioneer Elite - not the SA series, and Kenwood's Accuphases) were sometimes well regarded.
> 
> I also agree that there will probably be no improvement found by adding balanced adapters to the Pioneer, and it may also impact the sound negatively


 
 Well, reading measurements does not require (much) Italian - a graph is a graph.
  
 A particularly detailed report on Shure V15 IV is here : http://www.suono.it/La-rivista/Archivio/(pub)/56728
 ( I still have it in paper ! ) Too bad there are no (at least to my knowledge ) tests from Suono available online.


----------



## jnorris

luckbad said:


> Pioneer SA-8500 II under the ottoman? What?! Send it here! XOXO


 
 I tried to like it - I really did.  I have the 8500II, a 6500 that was modified to provide preamp out / main amp in, and an Advent 300.  Using only the amp sections of each to drive headphones, with either a Sumo Athena or Parasound PHP-850 preamp.  Time after time the Advent sounded more musical, open and natural than both Pioneers.  All three sounded like crap when their preamps are in the circuit.
  
 Would I prefer the aesthetic of the Pioneer 8500II in my audio rack over that of the Advent?  You betcha!  But the lowly Advent sounds better.


----------



## jnorris

analogsurviver said:


> Well, reading measurements does not require (much) Italian - a graph is a graph.
> 
> A particularly detailed report on Shure V15 IV is here : http://www.suono.it/La-rivista/Archivio/(pub)/56728
> ( I still have it in paper ! ) Too bad there are no (at least to my knowledge ) tests from Suono available online.


 
 Not a big fan of graphs - they pretty much all look the same.  I much prefer commentary.  Preferably by a reviewer with whom I am familiar.  Looks like an excellent magazine though!


----------



## analogsurviver

jnorris said:


> Not a big fan of graphs - they pretty much all look the same.  I much prefer commentary.  Preferably by a reviewer with whom I am familiar.  Looks like an excellent magazine though!


 
 Well, Italian audio press in those days was perhaps the best possible mix between objective (measurements) and subjective commentary available anywhere. They would translate the The Absolute Sound review of a particular piece of audio gear - followed by, with a month or two delay, their own take both on measurements and listening on the same piece of gear. What is of particular value today is the fact that things were being measured under the very same conditions for years, if not decades - and their results are still valid today. And those are those "boring, look preetty much the same " graphs
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...
  
 And they did cover Japanese gear, receivers included, that was largely ignored by the UK and US audio press.


----------



## jnorris

My issue with graphs is that very often - and especially with transducers - they don't really give a good idea of how a device sounds in real-world conditions.  It may measure near perfectly but be unable to reproduce many different instruments playing at the same time in such a way as to allow the listener to follow a single instrument.  I've seen graphs of equipment that I own that do not represent in any way their actual sound. 
 Back in the day, Peter Moncrieff used to publish frequency response and square wave response graphs for phono cartridges.  The interesting thing was that the top of the square wave was actually a backwards frequency response graph in miniature - high frequencies on the left and bass on the right.  This little graph gave a better idea of the sound of the device than the regular graphs in that it showed high frequency response, ringing and overshoot and low frequency roll-off.


----------



## analogsurviver

jnorris said:


> My issue with graphs is that very often - and especially with transducers - they don't really give a good idea of how a device sounds in real-world conditions.  It may measure near perfectly but be unable to reproduce many different instruments playing at the same time in such a way as to allow the listener to follow a single instrument.  I've seen graphs of equipment that I own that do not represent in any way their actual sound.
> Back in the day, Peter Moncrieff used to publish frequency response and square wave response graphs for phono cartridges.  The interesting thing was that the top of the square wave was actually a backwards frequency response graph in miniature - high frequencies on the left and bass on the right.  This little graph gave a better idea of the sound of the device than the regular graphs in that it showed high frequency response, ringing and overshoot and low frequency roll-off.


 
 Same blues here - but still I find graphs useful.
  
 I miss those days Peter Moncrieff has been publishing good stuff ... - his phono cartridge reviews still are unmatched anywhere.


----------



## jnorris

analogsurviver said:


> Same blues here - but still I find graphs useful.
> 
> I miss those days Peter Moncrieff has been publishing good stuff ... - his phono cartridge reviews still are unmatched anywhere.


 

 I still have the big, bound collection of phono cartridge reviews that he put out way back when, as well as a large-ish collection of the IAR newsletters - published in black font on red stock to prevent copying.  I remember reading his stuff and wondering how he got around with that immense ego.  Remember when he challenged the audio industry by saying that he could correctly distinguish between wires 100% of the time in a blind A/B test even with his ears stuffed with cotton?  Of course, this insinuated that anyone who couldn't was a hack.


----------



## analogsurviver

jnorris said:


> I still have the big, bound collection of phono cartridge reviews that he put out way back when, as well as a large-ish collection of the IAR newsletters - published in black font on red stock to prevent copying.  I remember reading his stuff and wondering how he got around with that immense ego.  Remember when he challenged the audio industry by saying that he could correctly distinguish between wires 100% of the time in a blind A/B test even with his ears stuffed with cotton?  Of course, this insinuated that anyone who couldn't was a hack.


 






 good old days.
  
 There was also green font on dark purple stock - even harder to copy. Love him or hate him, in any fair judgement he belongs to mavericks in audio measurements and subjective description. His publications are pricey - the alternative which lives mostly off advertising will prove even more costly - to the consumer ...


----------



## Benny-x

analogsurviver said:


> No such thing as a vintage balanced receivers.
> 
> Balanced started appearing in consumer high end audio separates years after receivers fell out of vogue.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, I'd found as much so far, but I thought it was worth putting the question out just in case. That's the end benefit of a community/griup, right? Pool experience and share info. So, that part has basically been corroborated. Thanks.
  


parbaked said:


> Then forget about vintage equipment which is from an era that predates the brilliant idea to sell 'balanced' gear to audiophiles...


 
 What's wrong with going balanced and extending what's available in studios/production to combat long runs and noise from having lots of equipment together? I had a full RCA cabled system before this and they weren't cutting it for 2 reasons. I've got a mountain of gear running beside/around my audio gear like computers, servers, TVs, soldering gear, lighting, step-down transformers, and isolation transformers . Then my speakers are each 5m from my PRE. Even with my headphones I'm still looking at ~4-5m from the amp, all in the same lovely environment. But you're right, I've gotten sucked into that sales cycle after having RCA connections and not being happy with the background fuzz and weak signal...
  
 I'd love to get that dedicated listening room away from everything else, that's on it's own circuit or that even has it's own dedicated power, and but hey, I'm in my late 20s, so that ain't happening.
  


jnorris said:


> I hate to burst your bubble, but if you're that into audio, the consumer-based Pioneer stuff is just not that good.  The line amps are noisy, the phono sections even noisier, and the sound quality tends to be strident and 2 dimensional.  If you're into their looks I can't argue there - they were striking looking.


 
 Luckily I won't be using the phono sections. As for your other comments around sound quality, I'm not really looking for ultra detail, I'm looking for what sounds comfortable and engaging. I've got planers, so from what I gather running them off the speaker taps is supposed to sound pretty nice. Quite a few people with similar or better gear than me have recommended doing that, so I was hoping to have a listen.
  


phoenixg said:


> Shots fired. The man is looking at one of their TOTL amplifiers. It's like telling the man climbing Everest that Nepal is an average of 7000 FT up. He's looking for the exceptional unit.
> 
> I'm not sure if there is a benefit to retrofitting a balanced input onto a device that wasn't made for it. Unless you're 100% sure the device was made a certain way or are willing to add the flipping/adding circuitry on to it, you might be better off with an adaptor or RCA input. You can probably find an adaptor that does more than just pulling off the + lead and preserves the qualities you're looking for.


 
 I haven't looked at schematics, but amps like the Concept 16.5, the Toshiba SA-7150, the Kenwood Supreme 600, or, get this, the Pioneer SA-8800, SA-9800, and SPEC-4 are all dual-mono from the PSU. I'm not here to yank your chains, guys, I just wanted to check on the long shot if any of these already individually powered amps/receivers had balanced inputs. And at least by having dual-mono PSUs there's a chance that they do or that something could be done. Maybe not.
  


jnorris said:


> I also agree that there will probably be no improvement found by adding balanced adapters to the Pioneer, and it may also impact the sound negatively


 
 Definitely possible. My gear also has RCA outs, so if I do end up getting one of these amps/receivers and there is no chance of balancing them, then I'd go direct RCA for sure. No benefit to putting lipstick on a pig.


----------



## MermaidMan

My receiver has run into a problem. It is getting extremely hot near two of the transistors and either one or both of them is making a crackling noise. The heat sink is also getting extremely hot when the receiver is on for even one minute. I've researched the problem and it is supposedly failing transistors, but I wanted to check here with you guys to see if there's anything I can try to do before taking it in to a tech and spending more money on it. Model is a 1969 Pioneer SX990. Sorry for being pretty clueless when it comes to this kind of stuff.


----------



## PhoenixG

benny-x said:


> I'd love to get that dedicated listening room away from everything else, that's on it's own circuit or that even has it's own dedicated power, and but hey, I'm in my late 20s, so that ain't happening.
> 
> ...
> 
> I haven't looked at schematics, but amps like the Concept 16.5, the Toshiba SA-7150, the Kenwood Supreme 600, or, get this, the Pioneer SA-8800, SA-9800, and SPEC-4 are all dual-mono from the PSU. I'm not here to yank your chains, guys, I just wanted to check on the long shot if any of these already individually powered amps/receivers had balanced inputs. And at least by having dual-mono PSUs there's a chance that they do or that something could be done. Maybe not.


 
  
 Yep, a lot of nice units are dual mono and man can you tell when it's done right. The separation is near total and it's awesome. Dual mono can't be converted into total end-to-end balanced unless it also has a floating set of isolated 'grounds.' Like in push-pull designs.
 I have a dual mono sansui and it has an amazing sound stage.
  
 Regarding power isolation.... don't waste too much money on it. There are cheap solutions if you really do have a noisy environment (and some people do, especially if you have a lot of communications gear in the room, or heavy machinery with brushed motors in your house, or big transformers within a few feet). A balanced system cuts down induced noise by a reliable 3dB, which is nice. You can also buy shielded coax cables for under a dollar per foot from your local electrical supply store (quadshield is good and cheap) and fit nice DIY RCA ends onto it. That will also eliminate most if not all induced noise. It's what I use and it's ideal for vintage systems. 
 Sure some people swear they can hear a difference if their sound system is on its own circuit (transformer, building, whatever), but that is a bunch of nonsense for properly built equipment. Many vintage pieces are shielded correctly and have appropriate extra capacity in their power supplies to filter out any noise from your power line. Much of the junk people take as canonical for what is required to have a perfect system is really just something made up by marketing to sell high mark-up garbage.
  


mermaidman said:


> My receiver has run into a problem. It is getting extremely hot near two of the transistors and either one or both of them is making a crackling noise. The heat sink is also getting extremely hot when the receiver is on for even one minute. I've researched the problem and it is supposedly failing transistors, but I wanted to check here with you guys to see if there's anything I can try to do before taking it in to a tech and spending more money on it. Model is a 1969 Pioneer SX990. Sorry for being pretty clueless when it comes to this kind of stuff.


 
 It could be one of a few problems. First check your speakers and make sure they aren't too low impedance or otherwise shorting. Then check your DC offset and bias to make sure you're not shunting a ton of DC through your amp. If it's none of those, your outputs could be grounding on the chassis (I had a pioneer that did that if you catch it early enough, you can reinsulate them electrically and remount them. You might want a pro to do that.).
 If it's not clearly one of those, you might want to consider getting a pro to look at it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

mermaidman said:


> My receiver has run into a problem. It is getting extremely hot near two of the transistors and either one or both of them is making a crackling noise. The heat sink is also getting extremely hot when the receiver is on for even one minute. I've researched the problem and it is supposedly failing transistors, but I wanted to check here with you guys to see if there's anything I can try to do before taking it in to a tech and spending more money on it. Model is a 1969 Pioneer SX990. Sorry for being pretty clueless when it comes to this kind of stuff.


 
  
 There are generally bias diodes attached to the heat sinks to prevent the transistor bias from elevating and overheating the transistor.  Sometimes these can fail and lead to overheating.


----------



## KeithEmo

benny-x said:


> Yeah, I'd found as much so far, but I thought it was worth putting the question out just in case. That's the end benefit of a community/griup, right? Pool experience and share info. So, that part has basically been corroborated. Thanks.
> 
> What's wrong with going balanced and extending what's available in studios/production to combat long runs and noise from having lots of equipment together? I had a full RCA cabled system before this and they weren't cutting it for 2 reasons. I've got a mountain of gear running beside/around my audio gear like computers, servers, TVs, soldering gear, lighting, step-down transformers, and isolation transformers . Then my speakers are each 5m from my PRE. Even with my headphones I'm still looking at ~4-5m from the amp, all in the same lovely environment. But you're right, I've gotten sucked into that sales cycle after having RCA connections and not being happy with the background fuzz and weak signal...
> 
> .......................


 
  
 There is one thing many people get confused about: a _balanced_ device is not the same thing as a _balanced_ connection. In a "fully balanced amplifier" you have two identical signal paths, carrying two signals that are 180 degrees out of phase, for each channel; and (at least theoretically), the distortions in the two signal paths cancel out, giving you lower overall distortion. With a balanced connection, you simply have two equal but out of phase signals going through separate wires, between two components. In this case, since the two signals are subtracted to get the "total signal", and one signal is inverted, any noise that is picked up equally by both wires is cancelled out - which is why balanced connections have excellent immunity to outside noise.
  
 Therefore, the "purpose" of a balanced amplifier is to lower overall distortion (noise may actually be slightly higher), while the purpose of a balanced connection is to reduce noise and interference being picked up in the connecting cable. To have a "fully balanced system", you would need to have all balanced components, connected together with balanced connections, and you get the benefits of both. However, many components that aren't internally balanced still offer balanced connections, and so give you all the benefits of using balanced cables (they just convert the signal to/from a balanced signal at the input/output). Almost all pro equipment offers balanced _CONNECTIONS_, because of the obvious benefits, but that's not to even suggest that the equipment itself is balanced. (The circuitry necessary to convert between balanced and unbalanced is relatively simple and cheap, and it can even be done passively with a transformer-based adapter - often referred to as "a balun" - which is short for "balanced/unbalanced adapter". This also means that, while making a fully balanced component adds a lot to the cost, balanced inputs and outputs aren't that expensive to include - and, in fact, the most expensive part of a balanced connection is usually the connectors.)


----------



## richard51

thanks Keith Emo... we are lucky to have you here ...


----------



## Benny-x

keithemo said:


> There is one thing many people get confused about: a _balanced_ device is not the same thing as a _balanced_ connection. In a "fully balanced amplifier" you have two identical signal paths, carrying two signals that are 180 degrees out of phase, for each channel; and (at least theoretically), the distortions in the two signal paths cancel out, giving you lower overall distortion. With a balanced connection, you simply have two equal but out of phase signals going through separate wires, between two components. In this case, since the two signals are subtracted to get the "total signal", and one signal is inverted, any noise that is picked up equally by both wires is cancelled out - which is why balanced connections have excellent immunity to outside noise.
> 
> Therefore, the "purpose" of a balanced amplifier is to lower overall distortion (noise may actually be slightly higher), while the purpose of a balanced connection is to reduce noise and interference being picked up in the connecting cable. To have a "fully balanced system", you would need to have all balanced components, connected together with balanced connections, and you get the benefits of both. However, many components that aren't internally balanced still offer balanced connections, and so give you all the benefits of using balanced cables (they just convert the signal to/from a balanced signal at the input/output). Almost all pro equipment offers balanced _CONNECTIONS_, because of the obvious benefits, but that's not to even suggest that the equipment itself is balanced. (The circuitry necessary to convert between balanced and unbalanced is relatively simple and cheap, and it can even be done passively with a transformer-based adapter - often referred to as "a balun" - which is short for "balanced/unbalanced adapter". This also means that, while making a fully balanced component adds a lot to the cost, balanced inputs and outputs aren't that expensive to include - and, in fact, the most expensive part of a balanced connection is usually the connectors.)


 
 Thanks Keith, that was a clear explanation of the 2. 
  
 Now you might have me on the DAC, my PWD only uses a single Wolfson WM8741 chip and only has one single power supply. As far as I know it's a multi-channel capable DAC chip and its balanced outputs are true, but both channels are indeed coming from one chip and one PSU. 
  
 After that though, I think I got it. I've got a fully separated powered headphone amplifier, Audio-gd Phoenix, then another separated powered pre-amp, AMB a20, then I've got in fact 2 speakers from you guys, the Emotiva Pro Stealth 8s. Those are active and have no shared connections, so they're essentially each powered by their own mono block amplifier. Then all of this is connected using XLR, balanced connections. 
  
 I never fully thought to include my DAC in the Balanced Device vs. Balanced Connection part as newer age DAC chips seem to support balanced implementations internally, without requiring multiple chips like older R2R ones. And when using multiple chips there seems to be more motivation to have separate power supplies for each channel, like in my long time love affair Audio-gd Master 7. So besides my DAC and other new age DACs, I've always made sure to pay attention to the Balanced Device vs. Balanced Connection part. I don't like amps or pres that have balanced connections, but aren't internally balanced. It seems kind of fake to me. I appreciate your explanation of it though and can see that by adding a balanced connection to a non-balanced implementation amp they can try and take advantage of how balanced connections transmit singles. 
  
 The last part of your explanation did open up what I wondered about adding balanced connections and the potential value of it, even on a device that isn't internally balanced. I guess that starts to get a bit confusing when we're talking about the vintage amps and receivers I mentioned that do have dual-mono(individual PSU per channel), but that likely do not have isolated, floating grounds per side.
  
 Also like PhoenixG said above, using better shielded RCA cables may help, but I was hopefully looking at extending the system I've already built. If there's no other way, then this will be my way and thank you PhoenixG for telling me of your success with it.


----------



## PhoenixG

benny-x said:


> ...
> Also like PhoenixG said above, using better shielded RCA cables may help, but I was hopefully looking at extending the system I've already built. If there's no other way, then this will be my way and thank you PhoenixG for telling me of your success with it.



Yup. These are the interconnects I use. They cost $3 to make and are flawless. 



There it is in a complete state. Quad shield coax coupled to a gold plated brass rca connector. 



And that's the inside. They're a piece of cake to make, darn near impervious to induced noise, and there is no magic. The engineering supports the design.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> Yup. These are the interconnects I use. They cost $3 to make and are flawless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you find that high frequency detail is reduced by the shielding?  I have found this to be the case when trying various shielded cables - at least on my main system with Rowland M1s.  I use Kimber Hero there which seemed to resolve the issue.
  
 The SX1250 seems to be bright enough where it is acceptable with a shielded blue jeans cable though.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> Do you find that high frequency detail is reduced by the shielding?  I have found this to be the case when trying various shielded cables - at least on my main system with Rowland M1s.  I use Kimber Hero there which seemed to resolve the issue.
> 
> The SX1250 seems to be bright enough where it is acceptable with a shielded blue jeans cable though.


 
  
 So I guess, to sum up - the ideal coax cable for audio has a thick enough inner conductor, low capacitance, and enough shielding to reject your noise. And maybe is also cheap and easy to buy haha. So quadshield really does fine and no I don't work for a company that makes/sells it.
  
 EDIT: I goofed on some principles and suggest just looking up the capacitance for any coax cables you use with the understanding that shielding can result in higher capacitance on a cable, but it also depends on all the other properties of the wire. I erased most of it to prevent confusion.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> I haven't seen any high frequency attenuation. For the frequencies we're working with you have two options with coax - you can go as thick as possible to push the corner frequency to the left (and maximize shielding) or go thin to push it right (which seems counter-intuitive, I know). People LOVE massive looking cables. Nobody comes up to a narrow cable and says "oh that must be really good". But thin cables have the lowest capacitance, so if you're noticing a roll-off, maybe switch to a cable with thinner dielectric. Or maybe it's not the cable. It could be a dirty connector or that could just be how the amp sounds. Or maybe your replacement cable causes the amp to overshoot a bit giving the impression of better highs (it happens with very high capacitance cables on amps that use simple feedback sometimes).
> 
> For the cable I used, the corner frequency (where you start to see attenuation) is around 1GHz (dependent on shield circumference). I can't hear anything near 1GHz, so I'm not worried about attenuation. Coax cables also have a mode shift frequency (based on capacitance, length, etc) that can be in the audible range which might be what you're mentioning, but as long as your inner conductor has low enough DC resistance to carry your signal you shouldn't have any issues.
> So I guess, to sum up - the ideal coax cable for audio has a thick inner conductor, thin dielectric, and heavy shielding. And maybe is also cheap and easy to buy haha. So quadshield really does fine and no I don't work for a company that makes/sells it.


 
  
 Ya - have had mixed results.  Blue Jeans LC-1 sounds fantastic with the 1250/CD player and like absolute crap with my Pass B1 Pre and Rowland amps - dull and lifeless to be exact.  Maybe I will try something similar to yours and see where I end up.  Thanks..


----------



## KeithEmo

benny-x said:


> Thanks Keith, that was a clear explanation of the 2.
> 
> Now you might have me on the DAC, my PWD only uses a single Wolfson WM8741 chip and only has one single power supply. As far as I know it's a multi-channel capable DAC chip and its balanced outputs are true, but both channels are indeed coming from one chip and one PSU.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just to make life even more..... interesting.....
  
 The Wolfson 8741 is a stereo balanced DAC - which means that each Wolfson 8741 has a stereo pair of balanced outputs. However, you can also operate each Wolfson 8741 in "mono mode"; this is an even more special mode where you "cross connect" the two channels on the chip into a single mono channel with slightly better specs (very slightly; the S/N is about 3 dB better). The downside is that this requires more parts, is more complicated to design, and uses one DAC chip per channel instead of one for both channels.
  
 What you also need to understand is that the whole concept of balanced - in the context of improving audio quality - only applies on the analog side of the DAC. The numbers going into the DAC aren't "balanced" - and there would be no benefit to their being so. (You can send a stream of numbers over a balanced connection, and you could even create a dual-stream of "balanced numbers", but they would be no more accurate than a single stream of numbers, so there would be no benefit at all. The whole idea of balanced analog signals is to cancel out errors, and digital numbers don't have errors, and so nothing to potentially cancel out.)
  
 Now, you mentioned power supplies ..... and that is yet another context for the term "balanced" - with a whole extra set of meanings. With most tube amps, and with many _VERY_ early solid state designs, the amplifier was run from a single power supply (perhaps ground and +70V DC for a solid state amp). Because the output voltage could only range between 0 V and 70 V, but a speaker requires AC voltage, this type of design _REQUIRED_ an output transformer or output coupling capacitors. This sort of design is properly referred to as "single ended", and some folks referred to more modern designs, which ran off of dual power supplies (maybe +50 V and - 50 V), as being "balanced", or "differential". Modern designs are also often referred to as DC coupled - which automatically implies that dual supplies are used. (There are a bunch of names, depending on the context, and most modern solid state amps operate this way. The exception is bridged designs, which can run from either a single or dual supply). So most modern amplifiers run off of "plus and minus" power supplies.
  
 With power amplifiers, where the power supplies are asked to deliver a lot of current, there is also the possibility that the current drawn by one channel will cause the other channel to distort. This is why monoblocks are considered to be better (because each channel is entirely separate - so each channel has its own plus and minus power supply). There are also stereo amplifiers where each channel has an entirely separate power supply, and the degree of separation may also vary; some amps have totally separate supplies for each channel, others may share a transformer, but have separate rectifiers and filters. (Note that a stereo "dual mono" amplifier requires _FOUR_ separate power supplies, a plus and a minus for each channel.)
  
 Yet _ANOTHER_ factor is that some devices - like DACs - may have multiple sets of power supply sections for different purposes. This is especially typical for DACs. Digital circuitry tends to draw power in very short sharp pulses, which, in turn, can feed noise back into the power supply, which may then introduce noise or distortion to other parts of the circuitry. Therefore, it's usually better if you have separate filtered power supply sections for the analog and digital circuitry in a DAC. In fact, because the voltages at certain points in a DAC are super-critical, it's not unusual for a high-end DAC to have five or more separate power supply sections, each with its own filtering, with especially good filtering on the more critical sections.
  
 Whether the term "balanced" is misleading or not is mostly a matter of context. Historically, in the days of tube equipment, very little equipment was internally balanced (although "push-pull" is a form of balanced design). However, because of the higher operating impedances of tube equipment, the connections between equipment were very sensitive to picking up hum and noise. Therefore, in the old days, most pro tube equipment used small signal transformers at the outputs and inputs to "create" a balanced signal for connection purposes. Good quality transformers worked very well for this, but were quite expensive, and so a good quality balanced input or output was considered an important premium feature on pro equipment - and one that you often paid a lot extra for - even though nobody even asked whether the rest of the circuitry was balanced or not (and it probably wasn't).
  
 The thing you really need to keep in mind, though, is that all of this is done in the service of performance. (For example, if your DAC device has a S/N of 110 dB, which is excellent, it really doesn't matter if the Wolfson chips inside it are connected in the mode that gets a S/N of 125 dB or the mode that gets 128 dB. In a DAC, how well the power supply is designed, and how carefully the circuitry is laid out, will usually make much more difference than which mode on the chip is used.) If you have an unbalanced connection, and it's picking up noise, then switching to a balanced connection will probably help; and, if you're just putting together a system, using balanced connections to begin with will make it less likely that you'll have a noise problem; but, if you have unbalanced connections, and they're dead quiet already, then switching to balanced connections is unlikely to make any difference. Likewise, all else being equal, a balanced design may have lower distortion, but all else is rarely equal, so all that really counts in the end is the performance itself (it's quite possible for a well designed non-balanced amplifier to perform better, and sound better, than a balanced one that is less well designed).


----------



## KeithEmo

phoenixg said:


> I haven't seen any high frequency attenuation. For the frequencies we're working with you have two options with coax - you can go as thick as possible to push the corner frequency to the left (and maximize shielding) or go thin to push it right (which seems counter-intuitive, I know). People LOVE massive looking cables. Nobody comes up to a narrow cable and says "oh that must be really good". But thin cables have the lowest capacitance, so if you're noticing a roll-off, maybe switch to a cable with thinner dielectric. Or maybe it's not the cable. It could be a dirty connector or that could just be how the amp sounds. Or maybe your replacement cable causes the amp to overshoot a bit giving the impression of better highs (it happens with very high capacitance cables on amps that use simple feedback sometimes).
> 
> For the cable I used, the corner frequency (where you start to see attenuation) is around 1GHz (dependent on shield circumference). I can't hear anything near 1GHz, so I'm not worried about attenuation. Coax cables also have a mode shift frequency (based on capacitance, length, etc) that can be in the audible range which might be what you're mentioning, but as long as your inner conductor has low enough DC resistance to carry your signal you shouldn't have any issues.
> So I guess, to sum up - the ideal coax cable for audio has a thick inner conductor, thin dielectric, and heavy shielding. And maybe is also cheap and easy to buy haha. So quadshield really does fine and no I don't work for a company that makes/sells it.


 
  
 There is one generalization you made that I would warn people about - and that is about "thick and thin coax". The capacitance of a coax cable is determined by the distance between the two conductors and the surface area - mostly of the center conductor. Therefore, you can't always count on thin cables having lower capacitance or vice versa (especially if you're buying surplus or unusual cable online). Some very small cable has very high capacitance, and some very heavy cable has very low capacitance; military surplus cable is especially prone to having unusual combinations of characteristics. You really should look up the characteristics of the individual cable you're considering. (The numbers used for coax cable are pretty much standardized, so you can look them up by number, even if you don't know the manufacturer. To get the typical electrical characteristics for RG-8, just Google "RG-8".)
  
 People should also be aware that the numbers they see rated - like "loss" - are calculated based on a specific source and load impedance, and for a specific range of frequencies - almost always in the RF or microwave band, and consider the cable to be a transmission line. They should _NOT _be used for audio purposes. For audio purposes, you should only consider "basic parameters", like resistance, inductance, and capacitance... as related to the characteristics of the equipment you're connecting it to. (In general, a thick inner conductor, and thin dielectric, will give you high capacitance... which shouldn't be a problem with most audio.)


----------



## PhoenixG

keithemo said:


> There is one generalization you made that I would warn people about - and that is about "thick and thin coax". The capacitance of a coax cable is determined by the distance between the two conductors and the surface area - mostly of the center conductor. Therefore, you can't always count on thin cables having lower capacitance or vice versa (especially if you're buying surplus or unusual cable online). Some very small cable has very high capacitance, and some very heavy cable has very low capacitance; military surplus cable is especially prone to having unusual combinations of characteristics. You really should look up the characteristics of the individual cable you're considering. (The numbers used for coax cable are pretty much standardized, so you can look them up by number, even if you don't know the manufacturer. To get the typical electrical characteristics for RG-8, just Google "RG-8".)
> 
> People should also be aware that the numbers they see rated - like "loss" - are calculated based on a specific source and load impedance, and for a specific range of frequencies - almost always in the RF or microwave band, and consider the cable to be a transmission line. They should _NOT _be used for audio purposes. For audio purposes, you should only consider "basic parameters", like resistance, inductance, and capacitance... as related to the characteristics of the equipment you're connecting it to. (In general, a thick inner conductor, and thin dielectric, will give you high capacitance... which shouldn't be a problem with most audio.)


 
 Thanks Keith! He's absolutely right - you can look up all those parameters and you can't always judge a book by its cover (or a cable by its jacket size). I did goof pretty big there on the general capacitance relationship as well - good catch and thanks for it! For interconnects, the inner conductor should be thick enough to pass the signal without loss (low resistance here means as low as possible with a maximum of 1/10th of your input resistance), which isn't as thick as you'd think, so you are right I over generalized. 

 You are also right that there is generally higher capacitance in a coax interconnect and further right that it is still not going to be a problem with most audio interconnects. For a 1m RG-8 IC, we're looking at .2nF of capicitance compared to .1 for basic cable and maybe .15nF for average twisted strand. There is definitely a big percentage difference, but it is hopefully small enough to be acceptable on your system and get you the noise rejection that you're looking for.
 Cheers


----------



## PhoenixG

keithemo said:


> Whether the term "balanced" is misleading or not is mostly a matter of context. Historically, in the days of tube equipment, very little equipment was internally balanced (although "push-pull" is a form of balanced design). However, because of the higher operating impedances of tube equipment, the connections between equipment were very sensitive to picking up hum and noise. Therefore, in the old days, most pro tube equipment used small signal transformers at the outputs and inputs to "create" a balanced signal for connection purposes. Good quality transformers worked very well for this, but were quite expensive, and so a good quality balanced input or output was considered an important premium feature on pro equipment - and one that you often paid a lot extra for - even though nobody even asked whether the rest of the circuitry was balanced or not (and it probably wasn't).
> 
> The thing you really need to keep in mind, though, is that all of this is done in the service of performance. (For example, if your DAC device has a S/N of 110 dB, which is excellent, it really doesn't matter if the Wolfson chips inside it are connected in the mode that gets a S/N of 125 dB or the mode that gets 128 dB. In a DAC, how well the power supply is designed, and how carefully the circuitry is laid out, will usually make much more difference than which mode on the chip is used.) If you have an unbalanced connection, and it's picking up noise, then switching to a balanced connection will probably help; and, if you're just putting together a system, using balanced connections to begin with will make it less likely that you'll have a noise problem; but, if you have unbalanced connections, and they're dead quiet already, then switching to balanced connections is unlikely to make any difference. Likewise, all else being equal, a balanced design may have lower distortion, but all else is rarely equal, so all that really counts in the end is the performance itself (it's quite possible for a well designed non-balanced amplifier to perform better, and sound better, than a balanced one that is less well designed).


 
 Thanks for the history lesson! I really enjoy when audio dogma is put into perspective. I think you hit the nail on the head for this one. There are a lot of traps we audiophiles are led to to spend our $$$ on things that objectively make no audio difference. Sure something may be 'better', but is it worth it? Often the answer is no. It's like looking at a picture of the stars and saying "ah yes, Alpha Centauri is definitely 4  lightyears away in this one, not 10." Maybe a carefully calibrated machine could tell the difference if it were hooked up to the equipment that took it, but not only can I not, it is beyond impossible for any human to.
  
 The second trap you hit on was the old $20 saddle on a $5 horse. You can spend infinite amounts on cables, power conditioners, interconnects, magic garbage, room treatments, jumpers, etc., but you've wasted it if your amp isn't well done with a good source and good speakers/phones. There is a cost/benefit to everything that seems to often get kinda bonkers. I saw a really cool system once (ML1C w/ jbl horns, MC275, beautiful) and the guy had a room that was really noisy. It's hard to even tell if it sounds good when your curio cabinet jangles, and throwing all the cables you want at it won't fix that.


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## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> Thanks for the history lesson! I really enjoy when audio dogma is put into perspective. I think you hit the nail on the head for this one. There are a lot of traps we audiophiles are led to to spend our $$$ on things that objectively make no audio difference. Sure something may be 'better', but is it worth it? Often the answer is no. It's like looking at a picture of the stars and saying "ah yes, Alpha Centauri is definitely 4  lightyears away in this one, not 10." Maybe a carefully calibrated machine could tell the difference if it were hooked up to the equipment that took it, but not only can I not, it is beyond impossible for any human to.
> 
> The second trap you hit on was the old $20 saddle on a $5 horse. You can spend infinite amounts on cables, power conditioners, interconnects, magic garbage, room treatments, jumpers, etc., but you've wasted it if your amp isn't well done with a good source and good speakers/phones. There is a cost/benefit to everything that seems to often get kinda bonkers. I saw a really cool system once (ML1C w/ jbl horns, MC275, beautiful) and the guy had a room that was really noisy. It's hard to even tell if it sounds good when your curio cabinet jangles, and throwing all the cables you want at it won't fix that.



That's funny, the guy I bought my dynaco from was bragging about his system, and brought me up to hear it. He had very nice stuff, a fisher tube receiver, a linn TT, and some other nice gear, but he had one speaker right in the corner with no toe in, and the other speaker halfway down the wall and angled about 45 degrees. It sounded horrible lol


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## MP1968

Don't wish to derail the thread, but having read a lot of it in the past few weeks I thought I'd post my comparisons of an SA-9100 with a Master 9.
  
 Firstly, I'll thank Oregonian who took the time to answer some questions I had on vintage gear and nudged me over the edge into buying the SA-9100.  This was sold to me by someone who has refurbished 6 of these already, and I understand is known on AudioKarma for his work.  So I'm confident that all the recapping and whatnot has been done well.  
  
 In its own right I've been very pleased with it as a headphone amp, but in the past couple of weeks I've had a few listening sessions to try and tease out the differences between the 9100 and my Master 9.  This has largely been done with TH900s, although this evening I tried my LCD XCs as well. For information, my general tastes are rock: Royal Blood, Rival Sons, Band of Skulls, Arctic Monkeys, etc etc.  
  
 And quite honestly the differences between the two amps aren't very obvious: it takes a lot of back and forth between the two to work out what they are.  With the TH900s the 9100 hits a little harder in the bass and the lower end of the mid range, but not overwhelmingly so.  The Master 9 is a touch crisper, probably because I detect a little more presence in the treble.  The soundstage is possibly very slightly wider on the M9 on some tracks: difficult to be certain.  
  
 But what the 9100 does have is a sort of propulsion to the music: it gets my toes tapping, there's a bit more meat on the bones of the music.  I don't know whether this is anything to do with the output impedance of the 9100 which I assume is somewhere in the 100-300 ohm range which I've been told that many of these vintage amps have, versus the 1 ohm or so of the M9.  The TH900s aren't insensitive 'phones.  
  
 So, I'm very impressed.  Much as I've enjoyed the M9, and had regarded it as my endgame amp, it may be appearing in the for sale forum at some point.
  
 Then finally, the TH900s versus the XCs out of the 9100..................... I prefer the TH900s.  I find the XCs to be warmer phones (certainly compared to the LCD3s which I had until recently), and it's too much for me when added to the slight warmth of the 9100.  The XCs sound almost a bit sluggish, whereas the TH900s retain a crispness and attack which works for the type of music I like.  
  
 Anyway, hopefully this'll be of interest to a couple of people.


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## jnorris

I have always felt that the prodigious gobs of current instantaneously available from a receiver/integrated amp/amplifier renders far more dynamics and presence that the current-starved tube/op-amp/discrete crop of headphone-specific amps.  And if you thought the Pioneer sounded good, you should hear some of the more respected names in components.  MacIntosh, Denon, and NAD spring to mind.


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## Rossliew

Agreed. Currently listening with my NAD 3020 - lovely, lovely amp. Costs a mere fraction of the current crop of headphone amps yet delivers gobs of power and dynamics unrivalled by any head-amp i have (cost vs performance wise). I do notice however that the headphone jack favours cans of the higher impedance variety (something about the higher output impedance which i read somewhere).


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## SirMarc

Did any of you guys jump on the HD 598 black Friday deal on Amazon? Holy crap! After some break in, I really like these headphones. The only thing that sucks is they're only 50 ohms, so they're not playing well with my 9090. That's ok though, they sound fantastic with my Asgard 2, and surprisingly good out of my phone and tablet. I just have the Asgard 2 running off the tape out from the 9090. 
The other good thing is they're black, as opposed to the cream and brown color scheme that I never liked. I think I'm starting to like them more than my HD580's. Best 94 bucks I've spent in a while...


----------



## Benny-x

mp1968 said:


> But what the 9100 does have is a sort of propulsion to the music: it gets my toes tapping, there's a bit more meat on the bones of the music.  I don't know whether this is anything to do with the output impedance of the 9100 which I assume is somewhere in the 100-300 ohm range which I've been told that many of these vintage amps have, versus the 1 ohm or so of the M9.  The TH900s aren't insensitive 'phones.
> 
> So, I'm very impressed.  Much as I've enjoyed the M9, and had regarded it as my endgame amp, it may be appearing in the for sale forum at some point.
> 
> ...


 


rossliew said:


> Agreed. Currently listening with my NAD 3020 - lovely, lovely amp. Costs a mere fraction of the current crop of headphone amps yet delivers gobs of power and dynamics unrivalled by any head-amp i have (cost vs performance wise). I do notice however that the headphone jack favours cans of the higher impedance variety (something about the higher output impedance which i read somewhere).


 


sirmarc said:


> Did any of you guys jump on the HD 598 black Friday deal on Amazon? Holy crap! After some break in, I really like these headphones. The only thing that sucks is they're only 50 ohms, so they're not playing well with my 9090. That's ok though, they sound fantastic with my Asgard 2, and surprisingly good out of my phone and tablet. I just have the Asgard 2 running off the tape out from the 9090.
> The other good thing is they're black, as opposed to the cream and brown color scheme that I never liked. I think I'm starting to like them more than my HD580's. Best 94 bucks I've spent in a while...


 
  
 So, I've kind of purposely avoided the impedance matching and whatnot topic for a while since I have no idea about it. But here you guys are all talking about it about headphones on speaker equipment, so can anyone kind of lay it out for me? How does it work, what matters, what's supposed to match well, and what's supposed to cause problems? I heard this impedance thing is why sometime a PREamp can sound better than DAC(with digital volume or integrated PRE) to amp direct, because the PRE sorts out impedance issues.
  
 I plan on using headphones from one of these receivers, but I've heard I will need to use one of those "Can Opener" adaptors or like the HiFiMAN kit for converting speaker taps to 4pin XLR. I'd also like to try XLRs/RCAs over to my active speakers. 
  
 And for headphones, I've got JVC DX-1000, Audeze LCD 2.2, and Sennheiser IE-8 IEMs. I know they all have different impedances and I've heard that whatever the Audezes have plays nicely off the speaker taps of a vintage receiver/integrated.
  
 So, if anyone could lay it out for me and include a couple different connection scenarios I'd really appreciate it


----------



## MP1968

I'm not at all an expert on this, but you may find this Head Fi article useful:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance
  
 One of the key messages for me was '*As a rule of thumb, the load impedance (headphone) should be at least eight times higher than the amplifier output impedance'.  *My TH900s are 25 ohms impedance, so according to this theory then the maximum output impedance of the headphone amplifier I use should be around 3 ohms.  My Master 9 is 1 ohm, so that obviously complies.  These vintage amps / receivers, however, output somewhere between 100 and 300 ohms through the headphone output which according to that article doesn't allow any damping factor.
  
 At this point someone else will need to take over and give you more information, as I certainly don't understand the technicalities of all this.  All I could do was spend time comparing my TH900s out of my SA9100 and the M9, and try to work out what the differences are.  Not many, was my conclusion.  
  
 I don't know about running LCD2s directly off amplifier speaker taps, but many Hifiman HE6 owners certainly do.  I think this is less to do with their impedance (I think it's around 50 ohms) and more to do with their low sensitivity (I recall around 83 dB/mW).


----------



## jnorris

benny-x said:


> So, I've kind of purposely avoided the impedance matching and whatnot topic for a while since I have no idea about it. But here you guys are all talking about it about headphones on speaker equipment, so can anyone kind of lay it out for me? How does it work, what matters, what's supposed to match well, and what's supposed to cause problems? I heard this impedance thing is why sometime a PREamp can sound better than DAC(with digital volume or integrated PRE) to amp direct, because the PRE sorts out impedance issues.
> 
> I plan on using headphones from one of these receivers, but I've heard I will need to use one of those "Can Opener" adaptors or like the HiFiMAN kit for converting speaker taps to 4pin XLR. I'd also like to try XLRs/RCAs over to my active speakers.
> 
> ...


 
 Most receivers have a headphone jack, so you needn't worry about interfacing speaker taps with headphones.  As for the impedance thing...
  
 The great majority of receivers and amps that provide a headphone jack do so by dropping the speaker outputs through a 120 to 300 ohm resistor to limit the current into the headphone.  Some preamps run their outputs through an IC amp (almost always an NJM4556 - the same lackluster chip used in the Grado headphone amp) to provide a headphone amp, and at least one preamp feeds headphones directly from its line out stage.
  
 The general consensus is that amplifiers need low output impedance because it is important to maintaining a high damping factor, thus allowing the amp to better control the back EMF (electro-magnetic force) from the drivers in the headphones.  My feeling is that high damping factor is important when the drivers are regular speakers with huge magnets that induce large back EMF currents, but the miniscule back EMF generated by the tiny magnets in a headphone have little or no effect on the amp.
  
 So plug your headphones into your receiver and enjoy!


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## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> Most receivers have a headphone jack, so you needn't worry about interfacing speaker taps with headphones.  As for the impedance thing...
> 
> The great majority of receivers and amps that provide a headphone jack do so by dropping the speaker outputs through a 120 to 300 ohm resistor to limit the current into the headphone.  Some preamps run their outputs through an IC amp (almost always an NJM4556 - the same lackluster chip used in the Grado headphone amp) to provide a headphone amp, and at least one preamp feeds headphones directly from its line out stage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1 - he could try inserting his own (lower) HP Jack resistors if he wanted or just jumper them out to see how it sounds, but you are most likely correct as moving mass is lower too.  If you do eliminate the resistors watch the volume control as it will get louder faster.


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## Skylab

In addition to jnorris's excellent post, note that damping factor is irrelevant for the LCD-2, as the impedance curve is completely flat across the frequency spectrum.


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## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> In addition to jnorris's excellent post, note that damping factor is irrelevant for the LCD-2, as the impedance curve is completely flat across the frequency spectrum.


 
  
 Since damping factor is load impedance divided by amplifier output impedance I think it means that the DF is constant across the spectrum rather than irrelevant.  It could still turn out that the actual DF number is unfavorable (doubt it but could be).
  
 Am I missing something Skylab?


----------



## analogsurviver

speakerbox said:


> Since damping factor is load impedance divided by amplifier output impedance I think it means that the DF is constant across the spectrum rather than irrelevant.  It could still turn out that the actual DF number is unfavorable (doubt it but could be).
> 
> Am I missing something Skylab?


 
 Your reasoning is correct. Better damping factor means better control.
  
 The most thorough treatment of headphone/impedance issues I have seen online is this : 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance#lXxz1i8HoBHscGDw.97


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## KeithEmo

Absolutely correct.... but output impedance (damping factor) also affects frequency response, which is what i think they're getting at.
  
 If your headphones have an impedance that varies widely, and your amplifier has a high output impedance (low damping factor), then, as well as not controlling the drivers well, the two will tend to interact to produce significant variations in frequency response. However, if the impedance curve of the headphones is relatively flat, then, even if the amplifier does have a high output impedance, while it won't control the headphones as well, you won't get that frequency response interaction.
  
  
 Quote:


analogsurviver said:


> Your reasoning is correct. Better damping factor means better control.
> 
> The most thorough treatment of headphone/impedance issues I have seen online is this :
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance#lXxz1i8HoBHscGDw.97


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## analogsurviver

keithemo said:


>


 
 Both of what you mentioned is correct.
  
 The biggest issue with headphones I have is the *sigh* TRS jack(s).  Any headphone should have 4 terminals - each channel  separately, no possibility of short circuiting the output of the amp when plugging or unplugging the headphones in or out.
  
 No one would believe the sound something as lowly as Grado SR-60 can produce if driven right.  I have modified the output of the Perreaux SM2 preamp in order to be able to drive headphones - and after a couple of months of use, phone rang and I accidentally pulled out the TRS plug and one channel output went up in smoke - what else ?
  
 I will repair it ( 300V output MOSFET by now rare as hell gave up the ghost  ) and re-terminate the thing with 4 pole XLR connector - to avoid that dreaded TRS short circuit.  I might even put a fuse(s) in series - but I try to avoid them whenever not absolutely required. SM2 has +-45 VDC power supply, so approx 30 VRMS output capability, is pure class A, has power supply bank greater than most power amps - and should be the dream amp for the AKG K-1000.
  
 Sorry, no receiver will ever even dare to dream about this kind of performance...


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## Oregonian

analogsurviver said:


> Both of what you mentioned is correct.
> 
> The biggest issue with headphones I have is the *sigh* TRS jack(s).  Any headphone should have 4 terminals - each channel  separately, no possibility of short circuiting the output of the amp when plugging or unplugging the headphones in or out.
> 
> ...


 

 Sounds like this is a good "public service message" opportunity.   Seems we should never unplug a headphone from the jack while music is playing, correct?   Good to know (seriously).


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## Mechans1

What are TRS jacks.  I have to assume they are the common terminals on better headphones, but never heard them referred to that way?    Are you using the XLR type jacks used for balanced operation?  Just trying to understand your post. Thanks


----------



## analogsurviver

oregonian said:


> Sounds like this is a good "public service message" opportunity.   Seems we should never unplug a headphone from the jack while music is playing, correct?   Good to know (seriously).


 
 In effect - yes.
  
 The usual action on the part of the amplifier manufacturers is to insert some resistance in series with the output - so that unplugging or plugging the TRS, which WILL and DOES mean short circuit for a moment, can not destroy the output circuitry. This can lead to deleterious effects with some headphones ( see Meier/Tyl link a few posts above ).
 Alternatively, some output short circuit protection is required - which again can mean adverse effect on sound, IF it is fast enough in the first place. It also means increased power consumption, which can be problem in portable devices.
  
 There is no problem of this nature with receivers with relatively large output resistors - anything above say 30 ohms is quite safe. But so high output resistance( or low damping factor ) can, with some headphones, again lead to decreased performance. And at the same time, so high resistance may be required for some headphones. The point that adding the required resistor in series is relatively easy ( it can be inserted into say extension cord for the use with headphones requiring such high value output impedance ) , whereas lowering too high output impedance of an amp for those headphones requiring as low output impedance of the amp is generally impossible for the average user.
  
 4 pin non TRRS type connector ( XLR or mini DIN or whatever small enough to be considered OK for headphones, little IEMs included ) would solve this unnecessary issue. But I am afraid we will be stuck with this TRS(S) nonsense for quite some time - similar as with loudspeaker binding posts, which means audiophile nightmare whatever vs Neutrik Speakon - which is professional and good and foolproof, but extremely unfriendly for those who wish to experiment with cables.
  
 So, tradition can be a considerable hindrance to the actual performance of audio gear.


----------



## buson160man

mp1968 said:


> Don't wish to derail the thread, but having read a lot of it in the past few weeks I thought I'd post my comparisons of an SA-9100 with a Master 9.
> 
> Firstly, I'll thank Oregonian who took the time to answer some questions I had on vintage gear and nudged me over the edge into buying the SA-9100.  This was sold to me by someone who has refurbished 6 of these already, and I understand is known on AudioKarma for his work.  So I'm confident that all the recapping and whatnot has been done well.
> 
> ...


 

  Does your audeze have the stock cable . I have a pair of LCD v2s and with the stock leash they were disappointing sounding. I replaced the stock cable on mine and they sound much better But the replacement was not cheap costing me 600 dollars which  is two thirds the cost of the phone(ouch!!!!!) but I am much happier with my lcd-2s . Changing the stock leash  made a huge difference .  I use a recapped concept 16.5 and it drives the hell out of all my phones .


----------



## henree

Hi,
 I was wondering is there is a definitive list on which vintage Receiver Brands use cheaper op-amps for the hedphone jack. And which ones  drop the speaker outputs through a 120 to 300 ohm resistor to limit the current? Is there a way to tell by opening up the unit? Would is be possible to obtain this from schematics? I  have a 1979 marantz 2500 & Nad integrated from 1984.


----------



## Skylab

You have a Marantz 2500??? THE 2500, the one Marantz monster receiver? Doesn't get better than that.


----------



## jnorris

henree said:


> Hi,
> I was wondering is there is a definitive list on which vintage Receiver Brands use cheaper op-amps for the hedphone jack. And which ones  drop the speaker outputs through a 120 to 300 ohm resistor to limit the current? Is there a way to tell by opening up the unit? Would is be possible to obtain this from schematics? I  have a 1979 marantz 2500 & Nad integrated from 1984.


 

 I've never seen a definitive list.  However if you're even haltingly familiar with reading schematics, create an account for you at hifiengine.com.  They have schematics there for a large number of vintage and some current components.  I go there every time I see something of interest on Craigslist.
  
 Most receivers and integrateds tap off the speakers through a 120-300 ohm resistor to the headphones.  Many preamps that offer headphone jacks drive them either with an NJM4556 IC or directly from the preamp output.  One supposedly "high-end" preamp used a crap LM386 IC amp for a headphone driver.


----------



## analogsurviver

henree said:


> Hi,
> I was wondering is there is a definitive list on which vintage Receiver Brands use cheaper op-amps for the hedphone jack. And which ones  drop the speaker outputs through a 120 to 300 ohm resistor to limit the current? Is there a way to tell by opening up the unit? Would is be possible to obtain this from schematics? I  have a 1979 marantz 2500 & Nad integrated from 1984.


 
 http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/2500.shtml


----------



## jnorris

analogsurviver said:


> http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/2500.shtml


 

 You'll need to create an account for yourself if you want to download service manuals which is where the schematics are usually shown.


----------



## analogsurviver

jnorris said:


> You'll need to create an account for yourself if you want to download service manuals which is where the schematics are usually shown.


 
 Correct.


----------



## KeithEmo

If you're trying to tell _BEFORE_ you buy it, and you can't find the schematic from more "formal sources", then often you can find a schematic by simply Googling "company model XXX schematic"; you'd be surprised how many schematics for vintage equipment have been scanned and posted over the years. (In general, older models used the dropping resistor, while newer models didn't - because, in modern terms, a separate low-level headphone amp is considered to do a  better job. While there isn't some specific date where everyone switched over, you'll probably find that most manufacturers did switch over, so most models from each changed from one to the other at a certain date - while, possibly, higher end models switched a little sooner - since a separate headphone amp would normally be considered a more premium design.)
  
 You can tell easily enough from the schematic. You should also differentiate between a simple series dropping resistor and a true voltage divider. A dropping resistor is a simple single resistor in series with the headphones. With a single resistor, you will get a higher output impedance, and so more interaction between the output and the headphones. (But the level will be more consistent between lower efficiency high impedance phones and high impedance phones of lower efficiency.) With a true voltage divider, depending on the values chosen, you should have a more consistent frequency response, and less interaction between the headphones and the output... and so a more consistent frequency response.
  
 You also need to beware of making foolish generalizations....
  
 Some units with simple-resistor outputs sound very good, but units with noisy amplifiers, and some older designs with amps that distort heavily at very low power levels, may sound awful. Also, of the units which have separate headphone amplifiers, some with discrete transistors sound very good, while some are really bad, and likewise for op amps. In other words, unless you know a _LOT_ about circuit design, don't assume that "a cheap op amp" will sound bad, or that "an expensive op amp" will sound good, or that "a discrete transistor amplifier" will sound good. There's a lot more involved than which op amp someone chose to use.....    (there are very few op amps that I would automatically assume would sound bad, and none that I would assume would sound good).
  
 Another thing is that the output of units with output resistors will interact heavily with your particular headphones. All of this suggests that, if at all possible, you should try to get a chance to hear how a particular unit will sound with the headphones you're hoping to use it with...
   
  
 Quote:


henree said:


> Hi,
> I was wondering is there is a definitive list on which vintage Receiver Brands use cheaper op-amps for the hedphone jack. And which ones  drop the speaker outputs through a 120 to 300 ohm resistor to limit the current? Is there a way to tell by opening up the unit? Would is be possible to obtain this from schematics? I  have a 1979 marantz 2500 & Nad integrated from 1984.


----------



## jnorris

Which receivers/integrateds that you know of have a built in headphone amp?  I have only seen that in preamps - and for the most part they are of less-than-stellar quality.  I'm thinking that manufacturers would rather provide a minimalist headphone solution on their mainstream product in order to keep prices reasonable, and sell a ridiculously expensive separate headphone amp to us headphone weirdos.


----------



## buson160man

jnorris said:


> Which receivers/integrateds that you know of have a built in headphone amp?  I have only seen that in preamps - and for the most part they are of less-than-stellar quality.  I'm thinking that manufacturers would rather provide a minimalist headphone solution on their mainstream product in order to keep prices reasonable, and sell a ridiculously expensive separate headphone amp to us headphone weirdos.


 
 I agree a lot of the headphone outputs on components really suck .While there are some pretty nice sounding dedicated  headphone amps out there. The concept of high end headphone amps is really not that old and it has not been that long since they have seen the light of day. I get the feeling that they will get a lot better as time goes on and as they develop more high end headphone designs. The high end headphone rage that is going on  itself  really did not start that that long ago.  When you think of it the only really long standing high end headphone designs where the stax and the sennheiser Orpheus and the jecklin float when they were made.
   Before I purchased my old vintage monster receiver I had been following this thread for awhile. I decides to take the plunge. I am loving it too. Some of them really do make excellent headphone amps that can more than hold their own against the high end headphone amps of today.


----------



## Bob Cancel

Hi were can i purchase the led bulbs for the same receiver you have Thank You


----------



## buson160man

bob cancel said:


> Hi were can i purchase the led bulbs for the same receiver you have Thank You


 

 I purchased my concept 16.5 from decibel audio used of course so I can not say. But you may want to contact pacific stereo which is a repair shop in California. Just google pacific stereo. That shop specializes in rebuilding components. They have some pictures of rebuilds they have done on a concept 16.5. I am sure you can buy some replacement  leds from him. I am loving my 16.5 more and more each time I use it. Lately I have been experimenting with tweaks. I have been pleased by the results so far . I upgraded the fuses to isoclean 7.5 amp fuses on the back panel . That was a rewarding tweak things got a lot quieter with more low level info and things tightened up a bit as well  I just purchased a cable pro interconnect to upgrade the jumper plug between the pre out and main in . So far it is already sounding a lot better . There is much more space  to the sound and things in general are improving  nicely . Once they break in with about 40 hours of use per the cable pro person . It should be interesting. I wished I lived in California pacific stereos rebuilds look awesome and they probably sound awesome too . Though they are not cheap a top level rebuild will set you back around 1800 usd .But  transporting something this heavy could be catastrophic the way they deliver things these days.
    I am glad to meet a fellow 16.5 owner . They are great and getting greater right along with my tweaks.


----------



## BobG55

Hello everyone,
  
 There's a receiver that appeals to me : the Yamaha CR-1020 but there's practically no existing/detailed information as to it's sound quality/attributes.  Even on this thread using the "Search this thread" tool & "Advanced search" not much comes up pertaining to the information I've indicated in my opening line.  So, hoping there's a member either with some in depth knowledge or one who owns a CR-1020 that can help me out, please.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## jnorris

I just googled Yamaha CR-1020 and came up with a ton of info.  Looks like a nice piece.


----------



## BobG55

jnorris said:


> I just googled Yamaha CR-1020 and came up with a ton of info.  Looks like a nice piece.


 

 Thank you for pointing that out for me.  I did the same but none of the info. I found describes/emphasize the sound of the receiver which is what I'm looking for.


----------



## Oregonian

bobg55 said:


> Thank you for pointing that out for me.  I did the same but none of the info. I found describes/emphasize the sound of the receiver which is what I'm looking for.


 

 That is one of Yamaha's best units for sure.  Go over to Audiokarma and do the same search - you'll find a lot more info on that website than here for vintage.


----------



## BobG55

Thanks Oregonian, I already did & extensively read everything possible there.  I guess I was looking for "personal experience" of how it sounds mostly with headphones.  BTW for some reason your Avatar is my favourite one on Head-fi but as to why, well I can't quite put my finger on it, let alone my whole hand.


----------



## frahengeo

You can't go wrong with a CR-1020 to drive loudspeakers or headphones.  I have the CR-2020, and have been happy with it.  I find that Yamaha, for whatever reason, has been much more reasonable in its prices.  If you can find one of the CA-x010 amps, I would consider that too.


----------



## RAZRr1275

So I'm looking at a vintage speaker amp for the HE-6. The Sansui 9090, Pioneer 1010 and the Pioneer 1050 are getting most of my attention. Another question I had is about the hp out. I know it'll work well for the LCD-2s but is it too much power to throw into something like the AQ Nighthawks or Audio Technica AD2000s?


----------



## SirMarc

razrr1275 said:


> So I'm looking at a vintage speaker amp for the HE-6. The Sansui 9090, Pioneer 1010 and the Pioneer 1050 are getting most of my attention. Another question I had is about the hp out. I know it'll work well for the LCD-2s but is it too much power to throw into something like the AQ Nighthawks or Audio Technica AD2000s?



My 9090 sounds fantastic with my HD650's and Dahlquist speakers. Not crazy about the phono stage though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

razrr1275 said:


> So I'm looking at a vintage speaker amp for the HE-6. The Sansui 9090, Pioneer 1010 and the Pioneer 1050 are getting most of my attention. Another question I had is about the hp out. I know it'll work well for the LCD-2s but is it too much power to throw into something like the AQ Nighthawks or Audio Technica AD2000s?


 
  
 IMHO - the Pioneer units are awesome if (and only if) you replace all the tantalum capacitors with film or audio quality electrolytic caps.  Otherwise the sound is not so good - dry and harsh.  I have a SX750 I just went through that literally went from worst to first after the recap.  Sounds magnificent!  Using it as my HP driver.


----------



## PhoenixG

I've been doing a fair amount of traveling recently for work, so I brought my 'portable' system with me on this trip. All packed, it takes up about 3 shoeboxes worth of space and weighs about 20lbs, but man is it worth it. I found my old portable CD player and got an inexpensive blue tooth dongle to bring it into this century a bit. It's a sony STR-6040. Great sound and prettymuch bulletproof. It's a nice low powered and low priced unit that you can probably find for about $40. The speakers are infinity primus II that I selected based on sound quality, cost, and size. They are fabulous above about 65Hz, but the deep bass isn't really a big presence with them.
 All in, I think I'm just a shade over $150 on it and I enjoy it immensely.

 As a fun aside, I spotted six glaring differences between an American copy and a Japanese copy of this album and I'm thinking that I'm going to be buying a lot more foreign copies of albums...

 So. Many. Bonus tracks!


----------



## frahengeo

I think its time for some pics:
  
 Fresh from a recap:  Sansui AU-9500
  


  
 Can you tell that I really enjoy photos of stereo equipment?


----------



## SpeakerBox

frahengeo said:


> I think its time for some pics:
> 
> Fresh from a recap:  Sansui AU-9500
> 
> ...


 
  
 Nice!


----------



## RAZRr1275

What sort of sonic differences can I expect between a Pioneer SX-1010 and a Sansui 9090?
  
 Also what's the best place to buy vintage amps? Ebay seems to have unserviced amps for like 500-600 which seems a bit too expensive. Is the subscribers only audiokarma bartering forum better in terms of pricing?


----------



## abby normal

I was gifted from my sister, a 1974 pioneer sx-636 that, while rated at 25wpc, somehow sounds substantially louder than that, driving a pair of fairly efficient old 1974 realistic nova 6 acoustic suspension speakers. maybe a big part of it is the aggressive volume control tip-in. but it is clean sounding on the side of warmth and plenty dynamic. anyways, aside from needing tuner cleaner in the balance control, it works just as it did back in the day.


----------



## Oregonian

abby normal said:


> I was gifted from my sister, a 1974 pioneer sx-636 that, while rated at 25wpc, somehow sounds substantially louder than that, driving a pair of fairly efficient old 1974 realistic nova 6 acoustic suspension speakers. maybe a big part of it is the aggressive volume control tip-in. but it is clean sounding on the side of warmth and plenty dynamic. anyways, aside from needing tuner cleaner in the balance control, it works just as it did back in the day.


 

 Congrats!  I have a Realistic tuner that is 16 wpc and it does a great job with headphones as well as driving a pair of Cerwin Vega bookshelf speakers for my wife's TV/DVD workout video system!


----------



## abby normal

have you ever seen actual electronics with the foster electronics [maker of radio shack electronics] name on it? anyways, I wonder how the CV speakers sound compared to the nova 6's? mine have unexpected bass extension in-room to about 30 cycles [usable], at least with the pioneer receiver. I tried 'em with a radio shack 55 wpc receiver [the kind with the twin slider volume controls] and they only went down to about 50 cycles. I wonder why?


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> I've been doing a fair amount of traveling recently for work, so I brought my 'portable' system with me on this trip. All packed, it takes up about 3 shoeboxes worth of space and weighs about 20lbs, but man is it worth it. I found my old portable CD player and got an inexpensive blue tooth dongle to bring it into this century a bit. It's a sony STR-6040. Great sound and prettymuch bulletproof. It's a nice low powered and low priced unit that you can probably find for about $40. The speakers are infinity primus II that I selected based on sound quality, cost, and size. They are fabulous above about 65Hz, but the deep bass isn't really a big presence with them.
> All in, I think I'm just a shade over $150 on it and I enjoy it immensely.
> 
> As a fun aside, I spotted six glaring differences between an American copy and a Japanese copy of this album and I'm thinking that I'm going to be buying a lot more foreign copies of albums...
> ...


 
 What a chic travel ensemble! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Some moons back, one of my fav things to do at record stores (Tower Records; Virgin MegaStore - Sunset Blvd, L.A.) was head to the Import section for Cds. I found...along with a higher 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 price tag, bonus tracks or compilations not marketed for U.S. sales. Love the Japanese offerings.


----------



## PhoenixG

silent one said:


> What a chic travel ensemble!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well, I figured I'd take advantage of the extra bag and pack something to make me happy. The Japanese albums do seem to have really good quality control and extra content, though some odd choices occasionally. Not pictured - J reggae.


----------



## abby normal

back in the BCD days [Before CD] Japanese vinyl [and to a lesser extent European vinyl] were by and large the only listenable product out there, the lions' share of American vinyls were comparatively distorted and sounded mediocre at best.


----------



## richard51

this is my new bride :  sansui au 7700 ....Versatile, eclectic amplifier with a great sound...this amplifier drive my he 400 like nothing else ...


----------



## Oregonian

richard51 said:


> this is my new bride :  sansui au 7700 ....Versatile, eclectic amplifier with a great sound...this amplifier drive my he 400 like nothing else ...


 

 Awesome unit!  The vintage bug has certainly taken hold of you my friend!  
  
 Have you tried the HE-400 out of speaker taps yet?


----------



## richard51

oregonian said:


> Awesome unit!  The vintage bug has certainly taken hold of you my friend!
> 
> Have you tried the HE-400 out of speaker taps yet?


 

 yes...... AWESOME... the hitachi sr 904 i have sold now  was too gross amplifier, big power but no refinement compared to the Sansui Au 7700 ... I use The Sansui  like pre amplifier only with my Monsoon MM200 speakers  and trust me the sound was better than  my Stax basic ...i use the Sansui with the he 400 from the speakers taps also  and the results are like you have already described when i read your posts some months ago... And like you ( i had read your posts about the Dharma) i want to buy the Dharma...I am interested by the Microzotl2 amplifier but the Sansui Au 7700 is so good that i think that i am a bit foolish right now about upgraditis...If you read about Sansui this model is one of their better amplifier, in the top five i think... The tone control section was subtle and all in finesse , the repairman said to me that this section was better designed than some Mc Intosh amp... I dont know about that but this amp crush all i have listen to...thank to you for your passion about vintage i have decided to buy vintage after reading your passionnate posts about your he 400 and you were right... For the Sansui au 7700 this model provide at a  small price ( 200 hundred bucks including the  catalytic replacement!)  audiophile sound and functionnalities that no headphone amp under 1000 dollars can deliver ...


----------



## Mechans1

oregonian said:


> Awesome unit!  The vintage bug has certainly taken hold of you my friend!
> 
> Have you tried the HE-400 out of speaker taps yet?


 

 I own one and the tuner (in storage)  .  Just curious why do you say eclectic?  My first serious audio system (1976)  included a Kenwood integrated.


----------



## richard51

mechans1 said:


> I own one and the tuner (in storage)  .  Just curious why do you say eclectic?  My first serious audio system (1976)  included a Kenwood integrated.


 

  by eclectic i mean that this amp can produce  for our ears a good sound from a diverse range of source (headphone variety) because of the versatility and finesse of his tuning control...Also the pre and the amp are separable hence eclectic also in this  sense...


----------



## buson160man

I would like to suggest that anyone who has a receiver with a pre out and amp in mainly the larger receivers replacing that metal jumper plug with a good rca interconnect is a worthwhile tweak. I have done just that on my concept 16.5 and it is proving to be a rewarding tweak. I have replaced my metal jumper with a cable pro vitality interconnect(3 footer why so long? so I can use it as  a practical interconnect later) and the improvement is easily discernible  in every area audio wise. Not unlike what you get with separates when you change a cable for a better one.
   Better Treble ,bass .midrange , dynamics , soundstage and much better delineation. A definite home run changing the interconnect is like hitting the ball out of the park.


----------



## bigkef

I am happy to see the the vintage options keep on piling up!!!  I have a question.  Does the 54watt Sansui have as good bass impact as your old Hitachi 904?   Believe it or not I was just about to bid on a 904 on ebay and happened to read this post about the Sansui.  I can probably get for around $200 if I look hard enough...


----------



## Neogeo333

Can't wait to test this with headphones via speaker to headphone adapter.


----------



## buson160man

neogeo333 said:


> Can't wait to test this with headphones via speaker to headphone adapter.


 
  Interesting  looking amp. Is it from sonys heralded ES  series of components ?  What preamp are you using? I thought I saw somewhere that using an adaptor for headhones off the speaker terminals was not good for the amplifier .


----------



## Neogeo333

Thats the last of the Espirit line from Sony.  I also have a TA-N86 and thats what got me started.  Was so impress with it that decided to nab it big brother.
 I dont know if it can damage the amp by using the speaker tabs to run headphones but plenty of users does that.  I still havent got any problems yet besides 
 headphones pull little stress compared to a speaker.


----------



## Mechans1

neogeo333 said:


> Thats the last of the Espirit line from Sony.  I also have a TA-N86 and thats what got me started.  Was so impress with it that decided to nab it big brother.
> I dont know if it can damage the amp by using the speaker tabs to run headphones but plenty of users does that.  I still havent got any problems yet besides
> headphones pull little stress compared to a speaker.


 

 Can you give us the basic stats on this amp?  How many WPC into x ohms?  ?volt transformer and so on...
 Thanks


----------



## Neogeo333

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N902.html
  
 http://audio-heritage.jp/SONY-ESPRIT/amp/ta-n902.html


----------



## PhoenixG

neogeo333 said:


> http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N902.html
> 
> http://audio-heritage.jp/SONY-ESPRIT/amp/ta-n902.html




That is a seriously nice piece of gear. I like stuff that was designed right at the end of the monster receiver era like that one. You still get the build quality you really want on them. And I do enjoy the Sony sound. 
Cheers and well done!


----------



## buson160man

Wow that was a nice sony amp. Very impressive .


----------



## Neogeo333

Thanks PG,
  
 Im also lucky that the owner had the amp serviced and replaced some components last Dec.  So im hoping it would last me quite a while.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

What do you guys think about PIONEER SA-7700?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## chillaxing

i luvmusic 2 said:


> What do you guys think about PIONEER SA-7700?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
  
 If its cheap and good condition get it.  I like integrated amps better than receivers.  Less components to clean and fix if it ever goes down.  Plus I have no use for the receiver part.
  
 A couple of months agoI thought there was something wrong with my Kenny ka-9100  I just bought.  Took all apart gave it good cleaning and now it's working with no hiccups (knock on wood).  So make sure you give it a good cleaning.


----------



## Oregonian

chillaxing said:


> If its cheap and good condition get it.  I like integrated amps better than receivers.  Less components to clean and fix if it ever goes down.  Plus I have no use for the receiver part.
> 
> A couple of months agoI thought there was something wrong with my Kenny ka-9100  I just bought.  Took all apart gave it good cleaning and now it's working with no hiccups (knock on wood).  So make sure you give it a good cleaning.


 

 Yes, Deoxit is our friend................


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> Yes, Deoxit is our friend................


 
  
 Saved my bacon more than a few times.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Yeah i picked it up today for $75CAD looks clean in and out however i will clean it again.So far it sounds nice and clean no static noise..
  
 Thank You guys for your reply!


----------



## Oregonian

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Yeah i picked it up today for $75CAD looks clean in and out however i will clean it again.So far it sounds nice and clean no static noise..
> 
> Thank You guys for your reply!


 

 Pics if/when you can!  We love Pioneer pics!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

oregonian said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah i picked it up today for $75CAD looks clean in and out however i will clean it again.So far it sounds nice and clean no static noise..
> ...


 
 Maybe this weekend.


----------



## VII7

Hey guys!
  
 Recently i have been able to snag a well-priced LCD-2 (rev. 2!).
 Before that i have been using my Fiio E07K as DAC/AMP for my Beyer 990
 and found it ok for now...
 But obviously that will not work at all with my new old Audezes.
  
 Since i am on a budget though i am not going to be spending 100's of $$$ on a headphone amp anytime soon,
 i am turning to you guys for some guidance 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I have been reading through quite a bit of this thread, as well as the big-old _LCD-2 amping recommendation thread_.
 People seemed to be talking past each other when it came to Vintage Receivers / Headphone amps.
 The modern headphone-amp guys kept rambling on about their _Violectric's, O2's, Burson's_ and _Lyr's,_
 while the vintage amp guys seemed to be very happy with quite a bit cheaper vintage amps,
 especially _Kenwood _and _Sansui _seemed to be considered a good match for Audezes.
 However, i did not see or feel much of a _mingling _(discussion) of those two camps and what advantages/disadvantages either kind
 of amping path woud constitute.
  
  
 To be perfectly honest i simply still don't know what the screw to go for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I really like the look as well as the idea of using Vintage gear. I'd rather plug the beautiful Audeze into some nice, solid, big Receiver
 than some small silver-y Headphone amp.
  
 Couple of questions that i would really love to get some input on:
  
 1. I read the DAC part of the Fiio is supposed to be rather decent...
     --> Would i be able to use the Fiio as an DAC, the source being my computer, and feed it to a Vintage amp?
          --> What would i require to do so?
     --> What would the general setup/requirement be for vintage gear if my chain starts with Digital FLAC files and ends with my Audezes?
  
 2. Sansui's and Kenwood's  receivers seem to be highly regarded for their "tube-like" sound signature.
     --> Why does that kind of sound complement the Audezes? Arent they supposed to be dark and warm by themselves?
           Would it not be more important to improve on the soundstage issues i read so much about?
  
 3. I think i would like the Audeze to be able to 'punch' just a bit more in the bass-department...
     --> Would a Vintage amp be better/worse in this department than a headphone amp?
     --> Will the Treble/Bass knobs work for the headphone out jack as well?
  
 4. How do i know if a vintage amp _can power / doesn't overpower_ the headphones? I really wouldn't want to hurt my babies 
  
 I hope these questions are not too many at a time.
 Both threads i mentioned are so huge for me to take in as a newbie.... i am sorry if all of this information i ask for is
 hidden there somewhere and i did not find it by myself.
 But my head is already dizzy from these topics 
  
 Thanks so much and best regards,
 David


----------



## jnorris

I can only speak in general terms since I have never heard the LCD-2's.  There is much love here for Pioneer, Kenwood, Sansui, etc. but IMHO it is not well-deserved.  I'd rather use a DAC like the AudioQuest Dragonfly and a higher quality integrated amp like an NAD, Naim, Creek and Rotel, to name a few.  My experience with the vintage Japanese stuff is that it looks stunning, but does not perform as well as it should.


----------



## chillaxing

vii7 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> Recently i have been able to snag a well-priced LCD-2 (rev. 2!).
> Before that i have been using my Fiio E07K as DAC/AMP for my Beyer 990
> ...


 
  
 I went from this (had a bifrost and modern reveiver in there too)
  

  
  
 to this
  

  
  
 Couldn't be happier.
  
  
 Remember that a lot of people that are recommending things are selling things 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On to your questions.
  
 1. If you don't want to spend a lot money on a dac right now, the fiio will work great if it has a coax out (e18, 17k).  They are great bang for the buck amp/dacs.
 Chain would be  Pc to Fiio with usb > fiio to amp with coax > amp to lcd through headphone jack
  
  
 2. The thing with using equipment to adjust your headphones sound sig is silly to me.  If your cans sound one way its going to sound that way no matter what.  Not saying the equipment want change the sound, its just to minute.
  
 Open headphones doesn't always equate to wide stage.  I've have/had the he-500, lcd2, and he-400i.  All are relatively closed, my asg2.5 has a stage just as big, maybe even bigger, and those are iems.
  
 3.  I'm a TRUE basshead (still have big ass subs in the car) and a vintage amp with a lot tone controls will make the lcd thump.  Dont be afraid to use them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 4. The headphone jack in a vintage amp has a resistor in there to regulate power going into you headphones.  Using the headphone jack will let you use all the tone controls and won't damage your cans.  People around here use adapters straight to the speaker taps.  Now that, you have to be careful and  comfortable with what you are doing.


----------



## VII7

So the Fiio E07K can not go coax out? :-/


----------



## Oregonian

vii7 said:


> All right I guess I just narrowed thing down quite a bit; I just got a Sansui AU 101 (ss) for 100 bucks, so I will try that road for a bit .
> I hope that it will have enough power, couldn't find any specs .
> 
> So the Fiio E07K can not go coax out? :-/


 

 That will be plenty of power.  Good luck and let us know how you like it!  And post a pic or three..............


----------



## SirMarc

vii7 said:


> All right I guess I just narrowed thing down quite a bit; I just got a Sansui AU 101 (ss) for 100 bucks, so I will try that road for a bit .
> I hope that it will have enough power, couldn't find any specs .
> 
> So the Fiio E07K can not go coax out? :-/



Just Googled the e07k and it says it does line out, which is all you need. Read the manual, you probably just need a headphone to RCA adapter and flip a switch or function for line out


----------



## VII7

Ah okay Line-Out is achievable with the L1 adapter for the Fiio. Nice! 
  
 Sadly i could not buy that Sansui....
 The HEADPHONE OUTPUT was broken.... jeez. The only out i needed, haha!
  
 Well i would still appreciate some more input, if there is some to be had


----------



## chillaxing

vii7 said:


> Ah okay Line-Out is achievable with the L1 adapter for the Fiio. Nice!
> 
> Sadly i could not buy that Sansui....
> The HEADPHONE OUTPUT was broken.... jeez. The only out i needed, haha!
> ...


 
  
  
 Might be better for you.  Low ball him because of the headphone jack.  Then go get a jack made with a resistor in it and use it out of the speaker tap.


----------



## VII7

chillaxing said:


> Might be better for you.  Low ball him because of the headphone jack.  Then go get a jack made with a resistor in it and use it out of the speaker tap.


 
  
 It was ebay. I had to cancel the transaction and all of that shenanigans.
 Rather not get involved there again. Also, considering i am new to this, i'd rather stay away from
 DIY/modding for now. Thanks tho!
  
 The input for the Receivers are dual RCA, have i understood correctly so far?
  
 That means the output of the DAC would have to be somehow split up from single chinch to dual RCA?


----------



## Oregonian

vii7 said:


> Ah okay Line-Out is achievable with the L1 adapter for the Fiio. Nice!
> 
> Sadly i could not buy that Sansui....
> The HEADPHONE OUTPUT was broken.... jeez. The only out i needed, haha!
> ...


 

 Are you in a city that has craigslist?  Go there, electronics, type in vintage and you should find a bunch of choices you can see yourself in person.  Let me know what city you're near/in and I'll scope it out for you.


----------



## SirMarc

vii7 said:


> It was ebay. I had to cancel the transaction and all of that shenanigans.
> Rather not get involved there again. Also, considering i am new to this, i'd rather stay away from
> DIY/modding for now. Thanks tho!
> 
> ...



Any electronics store will have one. Or you can try amazon. Even a good one won't be much money


----------



## SirMarc

3.5mm stereo male to RCA male


----------



## chillaxing

vii7 said:


> It was ebay. I had to cancel the transaction and all of that shenanigans.
> Rather not get involved there again. Also, considering i am new to this, i'd rather stay away from
> DIY/modding for now. Thanks tho!
> 
> ...


 
  
 get the rca split from monoprice.  Good quality for good prices.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

I run a 1989 vintage Nakamichi TA-3 Stasis receiver in the master bedroom.   Bought it used in 2003 and its been bullet proof ever since   You can see the headphone jack on the lower left corner.


----------



## SirMarc

bob a (sd) said:


> I run a 1989 vintage Nakamichi TA-3 Stasis receiver in the master bedroom.   Bought it used in 2003 and its been bullet proof ever since   You can see the headphone jack on the lower left corner.



I used to have an sr 4a back in the day. Damn nice receiver. Wish I still had it...


----------



## VII7

oregonian said:


> Are you in a city that has craigslist?  Go there, electronics, type in vintage and you should find a bunch of choices you can see yourself in person.  Let me know what city you're near/in and I'll scope it out for you.



I live in Berlin!
There, Craigslist seemed mainly a way for prostitution ads last i checked 

EDIT:

Another question;

With Headphone amps I know exactly how much power the amp is gonna be feeding my babies.

But how do I know how much power vintage amps give through the headphone jack?
The specs seem(ed) to focus on the speaker outs? Or am I missing something?


----------



## Benny-x

vii7 said:


> I live in Berlin!
> There, Craigslist seemed mainly a way for *prostitution* ads last i checked
> 
> EDIT:
> ...




1. Hahaha, got a laugh there. 
2. This is rather tough. If the power were linear then it wouldn't be too hard to calculate, but I don't believe it is. Every amp has a different power delivery curve. So you'll just have to trust in it because there aren't going to be specs on loads with impedances like we have in headphones on amps not made for them 

On that note though, besides wondering what the current/voltage delivery to your headphones is, you don't need it for something do you? If you're using the headphone jack of the amp then your safe, if you craft a set up of the speaker taps with resistors correctly then you're also safe. Don't know the numbers, but it's safe


----------



## VII7

I was thinking more in terms of: 'will the headphone out have the power to feed my hungry LCD-2's?'


----------



## jnorris

A receiver or integrated amp - vintage or otherwise - should have more than enough power.  You'd need to research any headphone-specific amp to see if it's up to the task.  I have always thought that op-amp-based headphone amps don't have the juice for heavy load headphones.


----------



## AK7579

I have chance to pick up a Sansui TU417 and AU417 for cheap. The guy is basically asking for me to pay for the tuner and is throwing the amp in for free. He states the amp has an intermittent loss of audio on one channel. I went to audition them and AU417 powers on and the protection light just blinks. It never stopped and therefore I was not able to listen to them.

Is this issue something that could be easily fixed?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## dogwan

bob a (sd) said:


> I run a 1989 vintage Nakamichi TA-3 Stasis receiver in the master bedroom.   Bought it used in 2003 and its been bullet proof ever since   You can see the headphone jack on the lower left corner.


 
  
  
 I have the TA-3A. Basically got it for free in a non-functional state. Had obviously been dropped as the back corner was smashed and all the knobs were either missing or broken off.
  
 It has taken 2 years of futzing off and on, but finally have it working again. The smaller transformer and some larger components on the main amp board had broken their traces. Must've been a big drop. Now it's working and it sounds wonderful. Managed to piece the knobs back together and find some others that fit the missing ones.
  
 Listening through headphones it is amazingly clear and dynamic. Tons of lower bass punch without sounding wooly or unbalanced.
  
 Waiting on the funds and time to do a full re-cap and tune up. Planning on keep it as a backup receiver for the living room. Still need to find a functional remote.


----------



## kid vic

Just joined your ranks with my Yamaha CA-600


----------



## SpeakerBox

dogwan said:


> I have the TA-3A. Basically got it for free in a non-functional state. Had obviously been dropped as the back corner was smashed and all the knobs were either missing or broken off.
> 
> It has taken 2 years of futzing off and on, but finally have it working again. The smaller transformer and some larger components on the main amp board had broken their traces. Must've been a big drop. Now it's working and it sounds wonderful. Managed to piece the knobs back together and find some others that fit the missing ones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No wonder it sounds good - that circuitry is licensed from Nelson Pass.  That man knows his stuff!


----------



## HeavenNotes




----------



## abby normal

^^^purty 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





late 70s and 80s stuff had a sleek charm


----------



## terry parr

thought i may have stumbled upon a possible "find" when i decided to pop into a pawn shop today (looking for stereo amps / receivers) and saw an older stereo amp on the shelf by a maker that i didn't recognize.  it looked like it was, maybe 1980's vintage and looking inside, all the component parts appeared to be original.  that can be seen as a negative, since this unit would probably need work (if not now, then shortly, since it's getting a bit long in the tooth, now), but original condition can be seen as a positive, too, since there are no signs of amateur tampering, the internal parts and the board all look "factory" original.  (or if anything has been replaced, it appears to have been professionally done).   
  
 anyway, i copied down what this piece is, and i knew i wanted to run it by the folks who regularly read and contribute to this thread just to see (on the off-chance) whether this is a good piece that has existed "under the radar."  possibly a hidden gem, i was hoping for.
  
 the name brand on the front of the unit had the three initials:  G L I.  and the model number is A-6300, then another badge on the right side of the unit says:  Concert 400W.
  
 got home and looked it up, and to my dismay, found out it is DJ gear.  (blech).  the people most inclined to use this piece will be most interested in it for its' ability to "pump up the volume", instead of being interested in whether the unit sounds the least bit "musical", as far as accurately reproducing tonal and timbral qualities where acoustic instruments begin to sound believable and where an ear for this was foremost in the minds of the design engineers as far as "voicing" this piece. (or, whether this awareness even crossed the minds of anyone on the design team at all).
  
 i very much doubt it.  it's probably a piece made to "thump" and to "play loud", with the people using it not having an appreciation for the accurate reproduction of a music recording.
  
 however,
  
 has anyone here heard or owned any of this particular brands' equipment, or this specific piece, by any chance?
  
 the reason i'm posting is:   "you never know" (although common sense and a gut feeling is telling me it's not worth the bother to go back and set-up a listen, which i was unable to do today).
  
 i'd like to be pleasantly surprised.  i would be using this piece mainly as a h/p amp for my akg 701's and lcd-3's.
  
 just thought i'd run it by everyone here on this thread to see if it rings a bell with anybody.
  
 or not.


----------



## buson160man

I have akg 701s and audeze lcd2 v2s and might I suggest the concept line of vintage receivers from the late 70s . I bought a recapped concept 16.5 last year and it is just amazing sounding driving both my phones . But they may not be easy to find depending on where you live. Concept was a line of equipment produced for the pacific stereo chain back then. And the pricing on these units has been on the rise especially the 16.5 which was the top  of  the line  model . Another unit is the concept 11.0 or concept 12.0 which are also excellent units and are a bit cheaper being  second best unit in the line .


----------



## terry parr

thank-you,* buson*.
  
 congrats on acquiring the _concept_ receiver.  i'm sitting here a bit envious.  (yeah.  were you just trying to be helpful to me in your post, or were you flaunting and just rubbing it in, as in "look what i got!").  ha, ha.
  
 i'm just kidding.  i appreciate your reply.
  
 the thing that's frustrating to me is that very few sought-after vintage pieces ever come up on my local craigslist (and i don't see any in the consignment shops or thrift stores, either).  i see tons of older a/v receivers (one of the latest that i looked at had the guy in the ad saying something to the effect "it sounds like the plane flew right through the room!").
  
 sigh.  you see?  this is what we're dealing with these days.  the home theater crowd (which is the majority of buyers for home amplification).  most of this crowd either doesn't know or they don't care how important a role that the amplifier has in how the amp contributes to (or detracts from) the rendering of recorded music.
  
 and, those of us who do know, and do care, have one helluva job finding exceptional-sounding gear these days where you feel that the sound signature of the amp was actually a concern of the amp designers and engineers. 
  
 hunting for and eventually finding satisfying gear can make the search effort pay-off, and part of that can be fun (especially when you're rewarded when you are lucky enough to acquire a piece that seems to tic all the boxes. i was lucky in finding an older JVC piece years ago from a older repairmans' shop where toshiba output transistors and good-quality elna caps were used, (the elna caps may be the originals.  the last time it was serviced last year, i was told the caps were fine and just leave them alone for now).  but it was just dumb luck that made me pop into that out of town shop one afternoon.  (glad i did.  it's been the most satisfying amp, sound-wise, that i've ever owned).    
  
 but, should it be this difficult?
  
 strange days, indeed,  when someone like me who's searching for a musical-sounding amplifier for headphone listening is seen as an "out-lier", or someone in the extreme minority. which is what i feel like a lot of the time.  (none of my friends can relate to this.  they don't know what the hell i'm talking about.  they don't get it.  so i don't bother discussing it anymore).
  
  
 just kidding with what i said above, *buson*, the _concept_ is something i'll keep in mind.  but, i've never seen one of these come up locally, and i don't think i'd want to take the chance of getting one off ebay when i haven't heard it (and be taking the chance of it arriving, or should i say, surviving, shipping).  so, i would be extremely lucky to be able to have the chance to get my hands on one of these pieces.  unless, again, i'm willing to take the chance with shipping and handling.


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey terry,
 Where abouts are you located and how far would you drive? Between the people on this thread, I bet we could take a look for you and maybe find something you've overlooked.
  
  
  
 Quote:


terry parr said:


> thank-you,* buson*.
> 
> congrats on acquiring the _concept_ receiver.  i'm sitting here a bit envious.  (yeah.  were you just trying to be helpful to me in your post, or were you flaunting and just rubbing it in, as in "look what i got!").  ha, ha.
> 
> ...


----------



## SpeakerBox

terry parr said:


> the thing that's frustrating to me is that very few sought-after vintage pieces ever come up on my local craigslist (and i don't see any in the consignment shops or thrift stores, either).  i see tons of older a/v receivers (one of the latest that i looked at had the guy in the ad saying something to the effect "it sounds like the plane flew right through the room!").


 
  
 Just a couple of years ago it would not be this hard - the thrift shops (and CL) were full of this stuff and usually at reasonable prices (I remember getting a very nice Pioneer SX750 for $5).  From what I have seen the thrifts no longer have the gear available (they sell them on Ebay themselves as the word has gotten out).


----------



## terry parr

thanks, *PhoenixG*, for posting.  you know, this thread is a "community", where everyone is brought together for sharing the same interest in this hobby.  but, a lot of us on here are separated by TIME ZONES!
  
 we're from all over.
  
 i'm near  raleigh, north carolina.  not many regular posters to this thread seem to be from my neck-of-the-woods.
  
  
  
 i do plan on checking out some gear tomorrow, as i've come across a local guy who has (what looks to be, according to his ad) some interesting-looking pieces that are available for me to do some comparative-listening.  i came across him just as i was beginning my "lament post" here in the vintage thread.
  
 he's nearby, so maybe he'll have something (out of all the pieces that he has there) that will scratch the itch (or, at least come close).  we'll see.


----------



## terry parr

yeah, *SpeakerBox*, i hear ya.  or, it could be that before somebody puts a vintage amp piece on ebay, they do their research, google the make and model, and threads like the one we're on now pops-up.  
  
 the seller sees the popularity of some of these pieces, goes on ebay and sees the prices that some of these pieces are fetching, and the asking price immediately goes through the roof, sometimes irregardless of condition, or whether the piece has had any restoration work done.
  
 of course, it _is_ supply and demand.  they're not making any more vintage amps and receivers.
  
 but, still,  everyone here that has ever submitted posts to this thread, has contributed somewhat to the wildly-inflated prices for vintage amps and receivers!
  
  
 no, i'm being a bit facetious, here.  (but there is an element of truth in that).  (we're pricing our own selves out of the market!)
  
  
 i'm just being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that last comment.


----------



## SirMarc

terry parr said:


> yeah, *SpeakerBox*, i hear ya.  or, it could be that before somebody puts a vintage amp piece on ebay, they do their research, google the make and model, and threads like the one we're on now pops-up.
> 
> the seller sees the popularity of some of these pieces, goes on ebay and sees the prices that some of these pieces are fetching, and the asking price immediately goes through the roof, sometimes irregardless of condition, or whether the piece has had any restoration work done.
> 
> ...



If you go look at them in person, you can usually talk them down by pointing out flaws like bulbs out, scratches, I'm going to have to spend hours taking this apart to clean it, I'm going to have to spend a few hundred getting it serviced, etc... I've never payed the asking price. For example, when I went to look at my 9090, the guy wanted 600 because of eBay pricing. I explained everything that had to be done to bring it up to spec and talked him down to 360


----------



## PhoenixG

terry parr said:


> thanks, *PhoenixG*, for posting.  you know, this thread is a "community", where everyone is brought together for sharing the same interest / hobby.  but, everyone here is separated by TIME ZONES!
> 
> we're from all over.
> 
> ...


 
 SO a quick look around you has some good options - a Kenwood integrated, a pioneer SX-1980 (that's no lightweight haha! It'll scratch any itch you have), a sansui AU-717 (nice unit all around), a sony str-6055 (I have a bunch of that model line because they are seriously good and very reasonably priced), and some more heavy hitting pioneer equipment.
 Not bad at all.
 in no particular order:
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5409325937.html                    sony str-6055
 https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/ele/5377329642.html         pioneer sa-8200-II
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5406990224.html                sansui AU719
 https://greensboro.craigslist.org/eld/5401155669.html        kenwood KA-7100
 https://greensboro.craigslist.org/ele/5392365887.html         pioneer sx-1980


----------



## Oregonian

terry parr said:


> thanks, *PhoenixG*, for posting.  you know, this thread is a "community", where everyone is brought together for sharing the same interest / hobby.  but, everyone here is separated by TIME ZONES!
> 
> we're from all over.
> 
> ...


 
 Now that I know where you are I ran a quick craigslist search for electronics/vintage and found this on the first page - last item is a KILLER amp @ 90wpc from Sansui
  
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5422312501.html
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5406255129.html
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5382474988.html
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5391932048.html
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5384182371.html
 https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5406990224.html
  
 Good luck in your search!


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> If you go look at them in person, you can usually talk them down by pointing out flaws like bulbs out, scratches, I'm going to have to spend hours taking this apart to clean it, I'm going to have to spend a few hundred getting it serviced, etc... I've never payed the asking price. For example, when I went to look at my 9090, the guy wanted 600 because of eBay pricing. I explained everything that had to be done to bring it up to spec and talked him down to 360


 
  
 How do you get a look at the units?  When I go to GW they are never on the shelves anymore.  Am guessing you request to look in the stock room - so to speak?


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> How do you get a look at the units?  When I go to GW they are never on the shelves anymore.  Am guessing you request to look in the stock room - so to speak?



Craigslist. I've never had luck with the goodwills


----------



## SirMarc

That being said, I haven't been on here for a while because the 9090 is so awesome I think I'm done. I still look at Craigslist occasionally because I'd love to come across an Eight Deluxe. I've heard so many good things about it I'd love to check one out


----------



## PhoenixG

See what I mean? The more eyes looking the better!


oregonian said:


> Now that I know where you are I ran a quick craigslist search for electronics/vintage and found this on the first page - last item is a KILLER amp @ 90wpc from Sansui
> 
> https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5422312501.html
> https://raleigh.craigslist.org/ele/5406255129.html
> ...


 
  
  


sirmarc said:


> That being said, I haven't been on here for a while because the 9090 is so awesome I think I'm done. I still look at Craigslist occasionally because I'd love to come across an Eight Deluxe. I've heard so many good things about it I'd love to check one out


 
 Regarding that feeling to check for something better, well, I think this clip is appropriate. If you don't like Nicholas Cage, you won't like the clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oLUhCVTXxM
  
 I've gotten my SX-1980 and my G-33000 off craigslist. Sold my KR-9600 on craigslist. It's almost too easy to keep looking. That's how I keep ending up with new stuff haha!


----------



## Benny-x

benny-x said:


> So, what I'm looking for is a vintage amp of good sound that can be fed with balanced, 3pin XLR cables from my DAC or PRE. The output of the amp can be the normal red/black speaker taps, no issues there. I'm just looking for balanced inputs.


 
  
 So, to answer my own question after being ridiculed for wanting an audiophool, balanced(unfortunately introduced to the impressionable audiophool) vintage amp.
  
 I've found 2, and a new addition that came out the same time as the Sony HAP-Z1ES, but flew under the radar and didn't receive much attention.
  
Vintage amps with balanced, 3pin XLR inputs:
 Sony - TA-FA777ES (~1999) - 100WPC @8ohms
 Kenwood - L-A1 (~1989) - 100WPC@8ohms
  
New amp, and not a mass market receiver:
 Sony - TA-A1ES (~2013) - 80WPC
  
 Now that I know there are in fact vintage amps with balanced inputs, though not "as vintage" as a mid-'70s to mid-'80s amps we mostly talk about, I will continue to look for others. I'll still get a single ended one and follow the other good suggestions on shielding the RCA connectors though


----------



## SpeakerBox

benny-x said:


> So, to answer my own question after being ridiculed for wanting an audiophool, balanced(unfortunately introduced to the impressionable audiophool) vintage amp.
> 
> I've found 2, and a new addition that came out the same time as the Sony HAP-Z1ES, but flew under the radar and didn't receive much attention.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't think 1989 or 2013 are considered vintage.  Too recent.  Unfortunately around the 80s lots of crappy stuff started to be manufactured.


----------



## Skylab

I have to agree. 1999 is definitely not vintage. 1989...well...that's stretching it to me, although it was 27 years ago now. So we probably have to allow it. What's sad is that when the 90's stuff is old enough to be considered vintage, we who are into 70's era hi-fi will need to come up with another name for it


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> I have to agree. 1999 is definitely not vintage. 1989...well...that's stretching it to me, although it was 27 years ago now. So we probably have to allow it. What's sad is that when the 90's stuff is old enough to be considered vintage, we who are into 70's era hi-fi will need to come up with another name for it



Holy crap man, I graduated high school in 89. Reality smack in the face lol. Lets just call it 70's schiit


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Holy crap man, I graduated high school in 89. Reality smack in the face lol




yeah well I graduated from COLLEGE in 1988. So you can imagine how I feel  I turn 50 this year...now THAT'S vintage


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> yeah well I graduated from COLLEGE in 1988. So you can imagine how I feel  I turn 50 this year...now THAT'S vintage



Yup lol. I'll be 45 this year. I had some of this stuff as a kid, and my dad had some of the higher end stuff. Wish I still had the Mitsubishi separates he gave me in the early eighties. I remember them sounding awesome with a pair of Ohm C2's. You know how it was back then. The new digital stuff looked so cool we had to get it. Now this stuff looks awesome and most of the eighties digital stuff looks ridiculous


----------



## musicman59

sirmarc said:


> Holy crap man, I graduated high school in 89. Reality smack in the face lol. Lets just call it 70's schiit


 
  
  


skylab said:


> yeah well I graduated from COLLEGE in 1988. So you can imagine how I feel
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have beat you both! I graduated from collage in 1980! an actually bough tone of this new in 1978-79 together with a pair of original Bose 901..
  




  
 My car stereo was an 8 track Muntz like this




  
 And then upgraded to a Pioneer like this




 Holly crap!! now I really feel old!!!


----------



## SirMarc

musicman59 said:


> I have beat you both! I graduated from collage in 1980! an actually bough tone of this new in 1978-79 together with a pair of original Bose 901..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah man, it really sneaks up on you. The good thing is we can afford this stuff now...


----------



## musicman59

sirmarc said:


> Yeah man, it really sneaks up on you. The good thing is we can afford this stuff now...


 
 You got that right!


----------



## frahengeo

sirmarc said:


> Yup lol. I'll be 45 this year. I had some of this stuff as a kid, and my dad had some of the higher end stuff. Wish I still had the Mitsubishi separates he gave me in the early eighties. I remember them sounding awesome with a pair of Ohm C2's. You know how it was back then. The new digital stuff looked so cool we had to get it. Now this stuff looks awesome and most of the eighties digital stuff looks ridiculous


 
 I wonder what kind of modern equipment will our children label as 'VINTAGE'.  I wonder if any modern equipment will stand the test of time...
  
 Accuphase?  Perhaps McIntosh, Krell, or Classe, etc.
  
 On the other hand, if my boys showed any interest, I would gladly give them one of my 70's gear.


----------



## SirMarc

frahengeo said:


> I wonder what kind of modern equipment will our children label as 'VINTAGE'.  I wonder if any modern equipment will stand the test of time...
> 
> Accuphase?  Perhaps McIntosh, Krell, or Classe, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, if my boys showed any interest, I would gladly give them one of my 70's gear.



I've always loved music. My dad was cool enough to buy me a legitimate system when I was under 10, probably because he was stoked we shared an interest. A black Phillips lab something or other, a JVC turntable and Ohm L speakers. I had a better system than most of my friends dads lol.


----------



## Benny-x

speakerbox said:


> I don't think 1989 or 2013 are considered vintage.  Too recent.  Unfortunately around the 80s lots of crappy stuff started to be manufactured.




I literally prefaced this when I posted it, calling them "not as vintage". So you'd have to be saying " I agree" vs. "I don't think"... Then I called the other one " new"...

Man, this is a tough crowd in here :-/ Not only did I get smack when I asked, I get smack when I answer. Cool place...

I would agree that 1989 has fully crossed into to vintage since it's over 25 years old. It's just that the entire time we've been terming gear vintage time itself has been passing, which was Skylab's point. 

Maybe we'll have to find a new term for "not as vintage, late '80s to late '90s" gear ?


----------



## Koolpep

Vintage clothing:
  
Generally speaking, clothing which was produced before the 1920s is referred to as antique clothing and clothing from the 1920s to 20 years before the present day is considered vintage.
  
Vintage Cars:
  
A *vintage car* is, in the most general sense, an old automobile, and in the narrower senses of car enthusiasts and collectors, it is a car from the period of 1919 to 1930. Such enthusiasts have categorization schemes for ages of cars that enforce distinctions between antique cars, vintage cars, classic cars, and so on. The classification criteria vary, but consensus within any country is often maintained by major car clubs.
  
 Vintage Amps?
  
It's complicated but in the end it's what we decide it to be, so we just need to find a consensus from us all at head-fi (insert hysterical laugh here).
  
 So, let's start:
Antique Amp:  everything until 1960 (or *more than 50 years old*)
Vintage Amp:  1960-1980 (*between 30-50 years old*)
Classic amp:   1980-1996 (*at least 20 years*)
  
 Ok?


----------



## SpeakerBox

koolpep said:


> Vintage clothing:
> 
> Generally speaking, clothing which was produced before the 1920s is referred to as antique clothing and clothing from the 1920s to 20 years before the present day is considered vintage.
> 
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## Oregonian

benny-x said:


> I literally prefaced this when I posted it, calling them "not as vintage". So you'd have to be saying " I agree" vs. "I don't think"... Then I called the other one " new"...
> 
> Man, this is a tough crowd in here :-/ Not only did I get smack when I asked, I get smack when I answer. Cool place...
> 
> ...


 

 Good points all.  Think maybe we should consider the "silver face era" as what us nuts call vintage.  What say gents?


----------



## Benny-x

koolpep said:


> So, let's start:
> Antique Amp:  everything until 1960 (or *more than 50 years old*)
> Vintage Amp:  1960-1980 (*between 30-50 years old*)
> Classic amp:   1980-1996 (*at least 20 years*)
> ...


 
 Yeah, that sounds fine to me. 
  
 So the Kenwood L-A1 is a "classic amp", the 1999 Sony TA-FA777ES is old, but still 3 years shy of being a classic, and obviously the TA-A1ES is just a couple year old one that I felt like including. 
  
 And @Oregonian, I know what you mean by the "silver face era", but it makes me laugh when I think about what prominent component colours there are in Japan in general. Silver has always been the main one by a solid margin. Nowadays is a little different, I'd say closing in on it is silver... Have look at this pic from a couple months back...

  
 They just don't make other coloured face plates there, haha. The black faced hi-fi gear that's popular like everywhere else, just doesn't fly there. I've always liked champagne myself, that's what the 1999 Sony really strikes a chord for me.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

koolpep said:


> Antique:  everything until 1960 (or *more than 50 years old*)
> Vintage:  1960-1980 (*between 30-50 years old*)
> Classic:   1980-1996 (*at least 20 years*)


 
  
 Good lord!  I've been called old.  I've been called senior.  I've been called a lot of things but NEVER antique!   LOL
  
 Graduated from HS in 1965.
 Alternated years off to work to raise tuition with college classes.   Graduated in 1972 with only 3 years attendence 
  
  
_Certifiable member of over 65, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club!_


----------



## SpeakerBox

bob a (sd) said:


> Good lord!  I've been called old.  I've been called senior.  I've been called a lot of things but NEVER antique!   LOL
> 
> Graduated from HS in 1965.
> Alternated years off to work to raise tuition with college classes.   Graduated in 1972 with only 3 years attendence
> ...


 
  
 Yup - antique here too.  Graduated HS in 1974 and will turn 60 this March.


----------



## Koolpep

Guys,
  
 am in upper half of the vintage age bracket myself, but this table wasn't meant to grade people, you guys are far from "antique" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  this is for fickle technology that moves way faster than lifetimes.
  
 Cheers,
 K


----------



## Bob A (SD)

koolpep said:


> Guys,
> 
> this table wasn't meant to grade people, you guys are far from "antique"


 
  
 K,
    Oh I think we all knew that but wanted to have a little fun


----------



## Mechans1

When I first heard about this nomenclature I thought that E-bay etc. didn't understand what a vintage is.  I was a wine maven for many years ,so it struck as  very odd.  I still think it not the right word, nor is it standardized .  I have come to understand what it  currently means which  seems to be anything old.  Real antiques in the antique jewelry business are and the u.s. customs say that the object is at least 100 years old to qualify as a true antique.
 Vintage will still be a wine that is made after a single  growing season or year. Yes, I know that now, a broken plastic toy from the 1980s might be called vintage. 
 Where did the other definitions as posted on this thread come from?
 Also why don't we use iron age and bronze age or Paleolithic etc.


----------



## kid vic

I saw a Kenwood supreme 500 at the same place I bought my CA-600.... Why do i need to save money right now??


----------



## terry parr

special thanks to  *Oregonian*  and  *PhoenixG*  for generally urging me to take a closer look at what might be available to me through my local craigslist (and for specifically providing me with about a half a dozen links each, for different pieces which were local).
  
  
 sent the guy who has the sony str-6055 a message, and he didn't respond.  contacted the seller for a technics sa-500 and (even though i had my doubts, i put my akg-701's in the car, and drove over saturday to plug in the phones and have a listen).  it looked like a nice piece in the ad picture (well taken care of), but, if it didn't sound good to me, i'd still keep looking. well, got there and plugged-in, and i could tell that this little receiver had some "thump."  it was driving the 701's very well (although detailed, critical listening really wasn't possible by only listening to the tuner, i was still able to get a good-enough idea of the performance of the receivers'  headphone output by tuning in an oldies station where i was familiar with the music being played).  this receiver was bringing out more low-end in the 701's than i had ever heard, plus it was playing the highs very cleanly (even though the 701's are less likely to distort highs than other h/p's) i was impressed, overall.
  
 i ended up bringing home the sa-500.
  
 i realize that this receiver may not be on the short-list of most of the regular contributors of the "vintage" thread here on head-fi as one of the most sought-after,  however, this receiver is no slouch. while i was at the sellers' house, i asked if i could plug into one of his vintage pioneers (the one that he uses to power his vinyl rig).  and, after listening for a few minutes, anyone would have to say that the sa-500 competes above its' weight class and compared favorably with the bigger and more expensive pioneer.
  
 this technics is driving my lcd 3's better than anything i've ever plugged them into.  (and after getting home, and being able to do more critical listening, i'm hearing not only more low-end impact and punch, but also added bass quality.  not only on acoustic basses, but acoustic pianos seem to be a bit more fully fleshed-out).  the entire sound spectrum seems to have more body and weight to it, and small details can be heard in certain pieces of music that i'm very familiar with that my trusty-old jvc just couldn't reproduce.  nice.    
  
 and, the mid-range doesn't seem to have been sacrificed to acheive the improvements at the other extremes of the frequency range with my "new" (new to me) technics.  
  
 all-in-all, i'm very pleased with the performance of this "modest" piece.  ("modest", on this thread, anyway.  ha.)   but, i'm very pleased with it.
  
 this one's a keeper, and won't be going anywhere.   
  
 i'm enjoying the music tonight (and staying up way longer than i probably should be!)
  
 thanks for the help, guys.
  
  
  
 terry


----------



## CJG888

Sometimes, clearing out the attic can be fun...


----------



## Oregonian

terry parr said:


> special thanks to  *Oregonian*  and  *PhoenixG*  for generally urging me to take a closer look at what might be available to me through my local craigslist (and for specifically providing me with about a half a dozen links each, for different pieces which were local).
> 
> 
> sent the guy who has the sony str-6055 a message, and he didn't respond.  contacted the seller for a technics sa-500 and (even though i had my doubts, i put my akg-701's in the car, and drove over saturday to plug in the phones and have a listen).  it looked like a nice piece in the ad picture (well taken care of), but, if it didn't sound good to me, i'd still keep looking. well, got there and plugged-in, and i could tell that this little receiver had some "thump."  it was driving the 701's very well (although detailed, critical listening really wasn't possible by only listening to the tuner, i was still able to get a good-enough idea of the performance of the receivers'  headphone output by tuning in an oldies station where i was familiar with the music being played).  this receiver was bringing out more low-end in the 701's than i had ever heard, plus it was playing the highs very cleanly (even though the 701's are less likely to distort highs than other h/p's) i was impressed, overall.
> ...


 

 Glad to hear another convert joins the team!  We have the best kept secret (not a secret but a lot of headphone amp guys don't seem to want to believe a 30+ year old relic could be an upgrade) on Head Fi and we know it.  Glad it worked out for ya!


----------



## PhoenixG

terry parr said:


> special thanks to  *Oregonian*  and  *PhoenixG*  for generally urging me to take a closer look at what might be available to me through my local craigslist (and for specifically providing me with about a half a dozen links each, for different pieces which were local).
> 
> 
> sent the guy who has the sony str-6055 a message, and he didn't respond.  contacted the seller for a technics sa-500 and (even though i had my doubts, i put my akg-701's in the car, and drove over saturday to plug in the phones and have a listen).  it looked like a nice piece in the ad picture (well taken care of), but, if it didn't sound good to me, i'd still keep looking. well, got there and plugged-in, and i could tell that this little receiver had some "thump."  it was driving the 701's very well (although detailed, critical listening really wasn't possible by only listening to the tuner, i was still able to get a good-enough idea of the performance of the receivers'  headphone output by tuning in an oldies station where i was familiar with the music being played).  this receiver was bringing out more low-end in the 701's than i had ever heard, plus it was playing the highs very cleanly (even though the 701's are less likely to distort highs than other h/p's) i was impressed, overall.
> ...


 
 Cheers man! Glad you had a few good options to look at! I had one of the lower models in that line and it was a satisfying low powered receiver. It wasn't perfect, but at the prices they go for, I wasn't looking for perfect. I ended up giving it to a friend to get him in to the vintage bug (he has since moved it from his main rig to his computer rig and set up a sony str-6065 as his main rig).


----------



## Mechans1

I am sure many of you know that some of the best engineers left Kenwood and  formed a company called Trio.  Trio evolved into Accuphase. The earliest Accuphase pieces have " Trio Labs"  or Trio something on the back  of them.


----------



## kid vic

Does anyone use their vintage receiver as a sort of pre-amp to their headphone amp? Basically I want to use the phono stage of my amp (as well as any other inputs)  then run my DV3322 out of the Yamaha. When i tried this earlier off the "tape rec out" I got a wicked hum in my DV3322, when Itried to use the "Pre-out" it sounded really nice but I had to use all of the volume (loudness on full and the volume maxxed out) which caused obvious distortion. I guess I need to use the coupler switch? Advice from anyone?


----------



## komhst

mechans1 said:


> I am sure many of you know that some of the best engineers left Kenwood and  formed a company called Trio.  Trio evolved into Accuphase. The earliest Accuphase pieces have " Trio Labs"  or Trio something on the back  of them.


 

 No, Kenwood and Trio was the same company. "Trio Kenwood Corporation".
 Indeed, some of the best engineers left Kenwood and with some others from Luxman, Marantz and JVC formed a company called Kensonic. Later, Kensonic evolved into Accuphase.
 The earliest Accuphase pieces have "Kensonic Laboratory Inc." on the back of them.


----------



## Numbers

kid vic said:


> Does anyone use their vintage receiver as a sort of pre-amp to their headphone amp? Basically I want to use the phono stage of my amp (as well as any other inputs)  then run my DV3322 out of the Yamaha. When i tried this earlier off the "tape rec out" I got a wicked hum in my DV3322, when Itried to use the "Pre-out" it sounded really nice but I had to use all of the volume (loudness on full and the volume maxxed out) which caused obvious distortion. I guess I need to use the coupler switch? Advice from anyone?


 

 Not sure what you mean i use my aune t1 to my vintage stereo amp using the aux as my amp doesnt have pre amp out puts on it .


----------



## SirMarc

kid vic said:


> Does anyone use their vintage receiver as a sort of pre-amp to their headphone amp? Basically I want to use the phono stage of my amp (as well as any other inputs)  then run my DV3322 out of the Yamaha. When i tried this earlier off the "tape rec out" I got a wicked hum in my DV3322, when Itried to use the "Pre-out" it sounded really nice but I had to use all of the volume (loudness on full and the volume maxxed out) which caused obvious distortion. I guess I need to use the coupler switch? Advice from anyone?



Tape out should work, I've been using a Dynaco sca-50 as a phono stage for years out of the tape out. Try using tape out 2. And as far as using the pre-outs, you have to use both volume controls, meaning the output of the preamp is controlled by the receiver volume control. The tape out is fixed I think at 2v, so no volume needed from the receiver


----------



## kid vic

numbers said:


> Not sure what you mean i use my aune t1 to my vintage stereo amp using the aux as my amp doesnt have pre amp out puts on it .


 
 I think your talking in reverse. You output your Aune into your amp?


sirmarc said:


> Tape out should work, I've been using a Dynaco sca-50 as a phononarage for years out of the tape out. Try using tape out 2. And as far as using the pre-outs, you have to use both volume controls, meaning the output of the preamp is controlled by the receiver volume control. The tape out is fixed I think at 2v, so no volume needed from the receiver


 
 Yeah I don't know what was up last night because Tape B was all static and and Tape A was static and mostly dead on the left side, now it's a glorious sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also yesterday Phono 1 wouldn't work unless i put a sharpie in between the two terminals (the channels seem to alternate between which won't work). It's been fairly well deoxit cleaned but I might have to get a serious servicing for it.


----------



## SirMarc

kid vic said:


> I think your talking in reverse. You output your Aune into your amp?
> Yeah I don't know what was up last night because Tape B was all static and and Tape A was static and mostly dead on the left side, now it's a glorious sound :blink:
> 
> Also yesterday Phono 1 wouldn't work unless i put a sharpie in between the two terminals (the channels seem to alternate between which won't work). It's been fairly well deoxit cleaned but I might have to get a serious servicing for it.



Did you use deoxit on the RCA ins on the back of the receiver? I use a toothbrush and deoxit for the outside, and pipe cleaners and deoxit to get the inside clean


----------



## kid vic

sirmarc said:


> Did you use deoxit on the RCA ins on the back of the receiver? I use a toothbrush and deoxit for the outside, and pipe cleaners and deoxit to get the inside clean


 
 Didn't use a pipe cleaner but i will remember that! thanks


----------



## Mechans1

I guess I am going to do more research before writing something I thought I remembered.  In fact I haven't researched this response either.  I'll fix it, if I am wrong.  I traded my very early- I think first-  Accuphase pre amp away years ago.   At that time you could buy these Accuphase pieces on Ebay for about $250, and I am talking maybe 2005.  One channel was getting intermittent, so with no tech skills and possible circuit board problems I didn't think it smart to keep it.  I really liked it when it was working.


----------



## terry parr

the more i've listened to this SA-500, with different genres of music from acoustic jazz recorded in the 60's (sonny clark, bill evans) to modern pop (donald fagen, lloyd cole) to more sparse female vocals (valerie joyce, merrie amsterburg),
  
 the more i like it!
  
 funny.  when i first got it home this past saturday, i made a point of listening to a couple of tunes through my old stand-by and trustworthy JVC receiver before connecting the new (to me) Technics.  this way, by playing those songs that were still fresh in my mind now on the Technics, the differences between these two amps could be more easily discerned.
  
 well, this was unnecessary, as i immediately found out as soon as i heard the first few notes with the Technics now hooked up.  no need to go back and re-connect the JVC to compare!
  
 i'm diggin' this little bugger.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  



  
  
 cheers, everybody!


----------



## kid vic

terry parr said:


> the more i've listened to this SA-500, with different genres of music from acoustic jazz recorded in the 60's (sonny clark, bill evans) to modern pop (donald fagen, lloyd cole) to more sparse female vocals (valerie joyce, merrie amsterburg),
> 
> the more i like it!
> 
> ...


 
 Glad to hear another convert, especially seeing as your using Planars. Next I would love to hear your impressions using your LCD3's off of the speaker taps


----------



## terry parr

kid vic said:


> Glad to hear another convert, especially seeing as your using Planars. Next I would love to hear your impressions using your LCD3's off of the speaker taps


 
  
  
 ah!  something _else_ to look foreward to, eh?  ha, ha!  i'm loving this.
  
 you know, just last night when i was listening to an up-tempo jazz piece, and when it came time for the bass solo, i was thinking how impressed i was with how well those lcd-3's were rendering the finger movements of the bass player.  both the right hand fingers doing the plucking of the strings, and the left hand fingers on the fretboard.  i was hearing not just a better tonal and timbral quality (and a bigger, fuller sound) but also more subtle detail especially hearing how his left hand was moving on the fretboard.
  
 and, i was thinking at the time, "this is it!...this is why i was willing to pay an un-godly sum on a pair of these Audeze headphones.  they're finally paying off, now!"  but, i was almost willing to let these things go earlier this summer by putting them on craigslist, or selling them at a local meet.  i was thinking about doing that.
  
 nothing that i've plugged these phones into so far has even come close to this Technics as far as bringing out their potential.  an SPL Phonitor, an amp/dac combo from Aurelic, and new, integrated amps from Anthem, Marantz, and Cambridge Audio.  nothing.
  
 that's why i was willing to sell them, because i was wondering what all the fuss was about (and during this time i was feeling a bit foolish for buying them in the first place), even though i had auditioned them through the loan-out program through The Cable Company.  so, i knew they were good quality phones, but the bloom quickly faded from the rose after i bought them  as i started to regret laying out that much money where i felt the price-to-performance ratio was waay out of whack.  i definitely felt the regret of "buyers' remorse."  
  
 well, not so much, now.   glaad i hung on to 'em.   
  
 and *kid vic* says there's yet another layer to be peeled-away, huh?
  
 i already have a "can opener" (that i've tried with a couple of other integrated amps, but with disappointing results).  the last time i tried this, i felt that the value of the resistor(s) being used in the "can opener" was still too high by being more restrictive to the current flow that i was hoping for.  at one time not too long ago i was thinking about having the resistor(s) changed in this little black box, but have never gotten around to finding out if this was even possible, let alone actually doing it.  (or, should i say _having_ it done.  ha!).
http://vinylflat.com/canopener.html
  
 haven't tried this yet with the Technics, but i will in the next few days, or so.
  
*kid vic*, what were you thinking, specifically, as your way to tap into the speaker outputs?
  
 WARNING:  anyone reading this, proceed carefully with this technique of tapping directly into your speaker outputs.  you can severely damage your hearing and/or your headphones if you don't know what you're doing.  
  
 that was the reason i picked one of these units up.  i thought it was a safer alternative (to prevent me from possibly damaging any of my equipment, including my eardrums), but would give me an idea of the potential for connecting directly into the speaker outputs and what it might sound like. but, the results were just disappointing to me. (or, have been, so far).


----------



## Hutnicks

terry parr said:


> ah!  something _else_ to look foreward to, eh?  ha, ha!  i'm loving this.
> 
> you know, just last night when i was listening to an up-tempo jazz piece, and when it came time for the bass solo, i was thinking how impressed i was with how well those lcd-3's were rendering the finger movements of the bass player.  both the right hand fingers doing the plucking of the strings, and the left hand fingers on the fretboard.  i was hearing not just a better tonal and timbral quality (and a bigger, fuller sound) but also more subtle detail especially hearing how his left hand was moving on the fretboard.
> 
> ...


 

 I would highly suggest looking in the "Speaker Amps For Headphones" Thread here.http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones  
 There is some excellent information there (and some not so good info too so read thoroughly)
 The Emotiva Mini X thread has some very good information including very good advice direct from the manufacturer. http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project


----------



## terry parr

hutnicks said:


> I would highly suggest looking in the "Speaker Amps For Headphones" Thread here.http://www.head-fi.org/t/649107/speaker-amps-for-headphones
> There is some excellent information there (and some not so good info too so read thoroughly)
> The Emotiva Mini X thread has some very good information including very good advice direct from the manufacturer. http://www.head-fi.org/t/629352/he-500-lcd2-d5000-dt770-sr80-on-a-speaker-amp-emotiva-mini-x-a-100-project


 
 thanks for the info, *Hutnicks*, but to tell you the truth i'm enjoying the improved difference that the Technics is giving to me now with the lcd-3's (as far as the fuller, richer, overall sound with the deeper bass extension) that i really don't feel in a rush right now to veer-off the road that i'm currently on.  
  
 i'm appreciating the difference i'm hearing now, straight out of the headphone jack of the Technics, considering that it's so much of an improved difference over what i've been used to.  but, we're all looking to improve the sound that we're getting, and this next level is something i'll definitely look into.
  
 so, i appreciate the link.  thanks, man.


----------



## Hutnicks

You're welcome. The nice thing about vintage amps is if you decide to go the route of using the speaker taps, it is very economical to do so. Resistors are cheap.
  
 The orthodynamic roundup thread has some good insights into which amps really excel at driving planar headphones. It is a massive thread though so being good with the search function is a must.


----------



## richard51

The nice thing to vintage amp... it  is , if choosen wisely during the amplifier war before mass market annihilate quality, before 1980, that you can have for exemple ( Sansui au-7700) a quality pre-amp separable mechanically of the amp, high hend tone control equalization, filtration of audiophile quality, adaptation of the amp to the impedance of reading cell of the turntable, power of qualty(80 watts measured for the official 55 watts ) + component quality impossible to have today at a comparable price  even after the tuning cost added to the cost of the vintage amp...Hence my Sansui is the second most profitable purchase i had made....I have learned  the hard way that new product necessarily  dont equal quality, the price of mass market today dont have the same signification than yesterday about quality ... The new tech is not always  synonimus always of audiophile progress...


----------



## Oregonian

richard51 said:


> The nice thing to vintage amp... it  is , if choosen wisely during the amplifier war before mass market annihilate quality, before 1980, that you can have for exemple ( Sansui au-7700) a quality pre-amp separable mechanically of the amp, high hend tone control equalization, filtration of audiophile quality, adaptation of the amp to the impedance of reading cell of the turntable, power of qualty(80 watts measured for the official 55 watts ) + component quality impossible to have today at a comparable price  even after the tuning cost added to the cost of the vintage amp...Hence my Sansui is the second most profitable purchase i had made....I had lear the hard way that new product necessarily  dont equal quality, the price of mass market today dont have the same signification than yesterday about quality ... The new tech is not always  synonimus always of audiophile progress...


 

 Plus they just look pretty cool too.....................


----------



## kid vic

terry parr said:


> thanks for the info, *Hutnicks*, but to tell you the truth i'm enjoying the improved difference that the Technics is giving to me now with the lcd-3's (as far as the fuller, richer, overall sound with the deeper bass extension) that i really don't feel in a rush right now to veer-off the road that i'm currently on.
> 
> i'm appreciating the difference i'm hearing now, straight out of the headphone jack of the Technics, considering that it's so much of an improved difference over what i've been used to.  but, we're all looking to improve the sound that we're getting, and this next level is something i'll definitely look into.
> 
> so, i appreciate the link.  thanks, man.




I run my HE-500 off the speaker tabs with no resistor or anything (i literally cut the 1/4 Jack off of a spare cable, used a multimeter to figure out which wire was positive and which was negative and then hooked that into my amp) if your not ready for it that's totally fair i was just curious though


----------



## HAWKEYE7

in the process of potentially reviving some of my very old stereo equipment for use. I bought these new while in collage in the early eighties.
 Marantz SR430 Stereo receiver
 Marantz SD225 Cassette deck
 Marantz 6110 Turntable - not shown
  
 It's been almost 20 years since I used these for playing music. I'm breaking it back out to hear how it sounds with my headphones and to see if I can incorporate it into a new system with the amp I'm going to buy.


----------



## Byronb

I have a Yamaha C-85 and it's Headphone out is rated at 6v/100 ohms, can anyone translate that output to mw for me?


----------



## SpeakerBox

byronb said:


> I have a Yamaha C-85 and it's Headphone out is rated at 6v/100 ohms, can anyone translate that output to mw for me?


 
  
 360MW


----------



## Byronb

speakerbox said:


> 360MW


 
 Thank you kindly!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I paired the PIONEER SA-7700 with the SANSUI SP-X6900 very nice(at least to my ears).


----------



## Numbers

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I paired the PIONEER SA-7700 with the SANSUI SP-X6900 very nice(at least to my ears).


 
  
 Yes the pioneer sa-7700 nice little amp. I use one to drive my headphones it will easily drive them sansui speakers.


----------



## Oregonian

Just a reminder for all our vintage fans - DeOxit is your friend!  I had an intermittent drop out/interference problem with my work system - Yoga2 feeding a HRT Microstreamer 3 into a Pioneer SA-8800 integrated amp. 
  
 Thought it was a USB DAC problem (tried NuForce uDac2 and FiiO E10 with no change)...........nope.  Thought it was a computer problem (tried it on my Kenwood KA-5700 at home with no issue)...........nope.  So started fiddling with the input selector switch and after working it back and forth a few times, problem went away.  Gunk build up on the contacts! 
  
 Took it home over the weekend, gave it the DeOxit treatment and problem is gone.  This is after doing the same treatment a year or so ago. 
  
 ***Also - a public service message to you guys - I bought 1000 (yes, you read that right) red RCA cover plugs from Amazon for around $10.  That was the only quantity I could buy.  Used a bunch of them on all my systems blocking off the dust entry points and have a few hundred left over.  PM me your address if you want some of them (give me an idea on how many you want - I'll throw them in a plain white envelope and mail them out to you.  I'll post up when I'm almost out of them.   No charge............pay it forward guys.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok folks. So I went and looked at a Pioneer SX-980 , today. I've been waiting a while for something nice to pop up on Craigslist in my area.
It's in excellent condition. See pics:




I know. The pics are atrocious. :/
So.... the guys asking price is $600. I did get to listen to it at his house. It works great. All the buttons are present. All the lights and meters work. No static in any of the knobs. 
There are some blemishes on the wood , but I'm a carpenter and it's not really an issue. 
With that said. What do you think a fair offer would be? Is it worth the asking price? If I did buy it, I'd probably send it out and have it restored internally. Just curious what the pros here on this thread think. Any advice is much appreciated. 

Cheers


----------



## Luckbad

You might try asking at AudioKarma if you haven't. They're in tune with the current prices.
  
 I've seen them go from $400-$650 pretty commonly on eBay, so this is on the high side of normal.
  
 Figure that eBay takes 10% and shipping is sometimes included, I'd probably be comfortable buying locally closer to $500... but these prices fluctuate a lot over time. I haven't looked at the receivers for more than 6 months.


----------



## Skylab

I agree. $600 isn't crazy high these days for an SX-980, but it is a little high. I would try to talk the seller down to $500. By the way, the 980 is a truly excellent receiver. You will be very happy with it.


----------



## PhoenixG

Well don't tell my wife they cost $600 now, I sold my 980 to a local buyer for $300 a few months ago.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Hope he likes it!


----------



## Mechans1

phoenixg said:


> Well don't tell my wife they cost $600 now, I sold my 980 to a local buyer for $300 a few months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Seems to me that anything that actually works has risen very quickly in price at a rate of about 300% over the last 4 -8 years or so.   The big issue seems to be  finding a ' late 70s vintage' amps or  receiver etc. that actually works reliably.  The amps I was buying 5-10 years ago almost all had problems.  The low price was not compensation for a piece of gear that doesn't work as advertised.
 To be fair most of the Sansui components, like integrated amps and free standing tuners, seem to have held up well.   The Kenwood integrated amps  I was trying to buy, in order to satisify my son's ,to show my son about what I had in high school. all failed.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I was hoping you'd chime in. Thanks bro. I'll post more pics once I get it.



skylab said:


> I agree. $600 isn't crazy high these days for an SX-980, but it is a little high. I would try to talk the seller down to $500. By the way, the 980 is a truly excellent receiver. You will be very happy with it.


----------



## Pudu

I know I'm late to the party, but just to reassure - 


I bought my 980 about 5 years ago and paid close to $300CDN including having it cleaned and a few caps replaced. That said, if I had to replace it today for $600US, I would do so without blinking. I've used it almost every day since I got it (usually all day long). It is wonderful with speakers and when I plug d7000's into the headphone jack it makes music sound more _fun _and lively than anything else I've heard.


----------



## Oregonian

Sent out the RCA plug covers to the group that requested them - I've got some left if you're interested (see my post above).
  
 Also...........so I have this SA-8800 Pioneer integrated amp in my office at work.  It's got the fluoroscan meters and is a gorgeous piece of kit with 80 wpc.   One weakness with these - the cabinets are veneer - and this 35 year old case has seen it's share of abuse and nicks and scratches. 
  
 Solution - there's a gent on AK that makes solid walnut cases for these and many other units.  Got it in last Wednesday - the fit was perfect, finish perfect and I couldn't be more impressed.  I know it's a cosmetic thing but I'm a collector and want my stuff to be as pristine as it can be. 
  
 Pics of the veneer (bottom) with the walnut on top of it................
  

  
 And a couple of views of the finished unit installed.  Used Watco Danish Oil which is awesome stuff.


----------



## SirMarc

oregonian said:


> Sent out the RCA plug covers to the group that requested them - I've got some left if you're interested (see my post above).
> 
> Also...........so I have this SA-8800 Pioneer integrated amp in my office at work.  It's got the fluoroscan meters and is a gorgeous piece of kit with 80 wpc.   One weakness with these - the cabinets are veneer - and this 35 year old case has seen it's share of abuse and nicks and scratches.
> 
> ...



Damn, nice man!


----------



## Skylab

Beautiful, Oregonian! I have quite a few of Amos's fine wood cases on my gear too. He does amazing work, best I have seen, and his prices are reasonable.


----------



## Oregonian

skylab said:


> Beautiful, Oregonian! I have quite a few of Amos's fine wood cases on my gear too. He does amazing work, best I have seen, and his prices are reasonable.


 

 I was blown away with the attention to detail.  I mean, a PERFECT fit with no defects of any kind.  Impressive.


----------



## TooPoor

Oregonian,

 Is this too much for a Pioneer Spec 4?
http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/ele/5446155433.html


----------



## Oregonian

toopoor said:


> Oregonian,
> 
> Is this too much for a Pioneer Spec 4?
> http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/ele/5446155433.html


 

 From what I've seen on ebay the answer is as usual - it depends.  Is it stock and not recapped? Has it been serviced?  I think it's worth it as these are very unique and state of the art for their era.  A grand for a Spec 1 and Spec 4 - worth it to me.  I see that combo with equalizers and tape decks for $2000 pretty regularly. 
  
 You would not be disappointed in my opinion.  What guys are paying for headphone amps compared to THIS?  I'm very biased but this is THE way to go.  Speaker amps with headphone capability and the ability to use the speaker taps to drive certain headphones.  Ultimate flexibility.


----------



## frahengeo

I saw that ad on CL a few weeks ago.  I would've been all over that, if I didn't already have too much stuff.


----------



## Oregonian

frahengeo said:


> I saw that ad on CL a few weeks ago.  I would've been all over that, if I didn't already have too much stuff.


 

 And since we know it's been on cl for a while, he may be able to negotiate a better price.


----------



## TooPoor

Thanks guys! I'm going to contact him and go from there.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

My Pioneer SA-7700 start humming like crazy the HUM it goes up and down with the volume pot it was quiet before.Any suggestions  for trouble shooting?
  
 THANKS!


----------



## TooPoor

I'm honestly a bit nervous the more I consider buying a vintage receiver off of CL... I've always had great transactions on HF, but have never bought anything off CL. 

It's probably inappropriate to ask, but if anyone has a receiver/amp they're interested in off loading, please PM me. It'd be used with my TH-X00 and HE-6 (eventually). 

That being said, what receivers do you guys recommend with strong headphone outs (~$800 budget) ? I'm doing my research, but there's so much info out there!


----------



## Oregonian

toopoor said:


> I'm honestly a bit nervous the more I consider buying a vintage receiver off of CL... I've always had great transactions on HF, but have never bought anything off CL.
> 
> It's probably inappropriate to ask, but if anyone has a receiver/amp they're interested in off loading, please PM me. It'd be used with my TH-X00 and HE-6 (eventually).
> 
> That being said, what receivers do you guys recommend with strong headphone outs (~$800 budget) ? I'm doing my research, but there's so much info out there!


 

 See if you can listen to the Spec system - it is truly top of the line.  And from the speaker taps the HE-6 will blow your mind..................


----------



## Mechans1

I can tell you the most difficult place to buy to get a working unit, and that of course is E**y.  They have the most stuff and you can get 'no DOA' guarantees from most sellers, but it is still a hassle ,if you have to make a claim.. Also  don't buy if the seller  doesn't usually carry vintage HiFi  .  Nonetheless I was able to get some really good stuff at very fair prices. I have noted that prices have gone up  quickly and steeply. What are you looking for in particular?  I ask because certain brands seem to age well while others don't. Sansui for instance has been very good to me, while Kenwood especially an integrated amp I owned in high school were all in bad shape electronically. ( I bought several as my son wanted the amp I had a KA-7100.)


----------



## richard51

the Sansui au-7700 is one of the top amp from sansui...One thing to know is the top quality of his tone control section, and his separable pre-amp section, trust me this 2 things are very useful...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 if you had a turntable there is impedance adjustment for  the lecture head.... and many others things impossible to have today...at this cost...


----------



## Lapgetreal

Hi
Luxman Lx104 receiver ,I just pick this up over the weekend.i was surprised how good the headphone amp is especially the high imp headphone ,I only have a few headphones on hand to test it out.i am very impress with this reciever.it's a keeper .there are no mention on this cheap little gem ,also have a good phono stage Have MC/MM carltridge loading .keep your eye out for this gem.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Ok folks. So I ended up passing on the Pioneer sx-980. When I offered the guy $500 , he hit me with," I got an offer for $700." So I said good luck, and haven't heard back. 
So , I found this Marantz 2245:






It's in pristine condition. The seller wants $380 for it. Any thoughts on the price? Is it worth the asking? Or should I just wait for another pioneer to come along? Thanks in advance.

Cheers


----------



## Oregonian

lapgetreal said:


> Hi
> Luxman Lx104 receiver ,I just pick this up over the weekend.i was surprised how good the headphone amp is especially the high imp headphone ,I only have a few headphones on hand to test it out.i am very impress with this reciever.it's a keeper .there are no mention on this cheap little gem ,also have a good phono stage Have MC/MM carltridge loading .keep your eye out for this gem.


 
  
 When you get enough posts, please post a pic! 
  
 As the saying goes, "this thread is worthless without pics!"....................


----------



## Lapgetreal

How to post pictures?

Thanks


----------



## buson160man

terry parr said:


> the more i've listened to this SA-500, with different genres of music from acoustic jazz recorded in the 60's (sonny clark, bill evans) to modern pop (donald fagen, lloyd cole) to more sparse female vocals (valerie joyce, merrie amsterburg),
> 
> the more i like it!
> 
> ...


 

  Those old technics receivers looked kind of nice back then. I thought they looked classy . The sa1000 was a real beast . You see them very rarely for sale .


----------



## kid vic

guidostrunk said:


> Ok folks. So I ended up passing on the Pioneer sx-980. When I offered the guy $500 , he hit me with," I got an offer for $700." So I said good luck, and haven't heard back.
> So , I found this Marantz 2245:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 http://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/marantz-2245-stereo-receiver/
  
  Vintage Marantz equipment is well respected and a cursory search of the one you mentioned brings only good news.
 Pray no one has snapped it up and bargain it down if you can.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Just bought my first vintage receiver here on the forum, an Aiwa AX-7600.
 Looking forward to find out how I like it and where this little adventure could lead to.


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> Just bought my first vintage receiver here on the forum, an Aiwa AX-7600.
> Looking forward to find out how I like it and where this little adventure could lead to.


 
 Best of luck, hope you like it, Most of us find that the first taste of vintage leads us to upgrade-itis.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> Best of luck, hope you like it, Most of us find that the first taste of vintage leads us to upgrade-itis.


 
  
 You got that right.  More like upgrade plague.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> You got that right.  More like upgrade plague.



I had it until I bought a Sansui 9090. It cured my plague lol


----------



## terry parr

oregonian said:


> Sent out the RCA plug covers to the group that requested them - I've got some left if you're interested (see my post above).
> 
> Also...........so I have this SA-8800 Pioneer integrated amp in my office at work.  It's got the fluoroscan meters and is a gorgeous piece of kit with 80 wpc.   One weakness with these - the cabinets are veneer - and this 35 year old case has seen it's share of abuse and nicks and scratches.
> 
> ...


 
 "i know it's a cosmetic thing..."   says Oregonian.   yes, the foremost consideration is what the piece of gear sounds like, but to me, it's a double-bonus if a piece of kit is pleasing to the eye while being pleasing to the ear.  nothing at all wrong with that!   plus, it gives you something attractive to sit and stare at while you're enjoying your music. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (as you sit there looking at it while enjoying the sound of it and thinking to yourself, "this is mine!").    
  
 very nice-looking piece.  definitely eye-catching.


----------



## terry parr

went by and listened to a *SONY STR-6055* a week ago tuesday which was on my local CL.  tried making contact with the seller a few weeks ago, but didn't hear back from him.
  
 i have already just bought a *Technics SA-500* within the past few weeks (which i am very happy with, so i wasn't looking to "upgrade.").  i was looking for a good spare when the Technics should need to go in for some work, and i wanted another amp that would sound comparable so that i wouldn't be without my music (the way i'm used to hearing it, now) while one or the other was being fixed.
  
 sent the seller another message, and he got back to me.
  
 judging by the reviews of this SONY, i was glad to get by the sellers' house and have a listen.  (the SONY is the piece that i was originally hoping to get, as that and the Technics SA-500 were listed on CL at the same time).  took my AKG 701 phones to audition and was immediately impressed with the sound of it.  and seeing that the amp was in overall very good (but not excellent) shape, i ended up bringing it home, since i thought it might be a while before another 6000 series comes up locally.  no damage to the unit (except for a small scratch on the plastic cover to the tuning dial). just looks like it needs a good and thorough cleaning.  just needs a good "going-over" as my dad used to say.  no dents or dings.
  
 after plugging it in and listening to it this week, i'm very pleased with the sound of the 6055.  some reviews online has this piece sounding "bright", but i have to disagree.  i think the highs are well-extended, but smooth-sounding to me.  the mid-range seems to sound a bit "wider" than on the Technics.  and, there's nice low-end reach and extension with the SONY. bass quality and reach are both very good with this amp.   overall, a very "clean" sounding, detail-oriented amp, that's also very "dynamic".   i think that's what most people mean when they say a certain component is "bright".  (meaning you're hearing plenty of mids and highs, at the EXPENSE of the lower frequencies).  well, to me, the 6055 is not lacking in low-end response.  it definitely has it. and, to me it has very good quality low-end.
  
 this SONY reproduces tone and timbre very well.  i think it's a "musical" sounding amp.  there's really nothing disagreeable that i've found, so far.  it's an engaging listen.  gets you involved with the music.
  
 but, so again does the Technics.  i think overall, the SONY delivers roughly 25% more than what the Technics brings out.  (as far as just more "musical information" and detail from the bottom of the frequency range through to the top.
  
 the only criticism of the SONY is that the design look of the Technics has the SONY beat by a mile as far as how the Technics is very attractive-looking, compared to the more industrial-looking SONY.  not really complaining, though.  i love both amps.  and, later on, when i take the SONY in for a good cleaning, (and, replace the green-colored lights with white ones), then maybe i can enjoy sitting and LOOKING at the SONY while i also listen to it!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 but, if the unit isn't damaged, (just dusty from having been ignored for a while), then at least you've got something you can work with.  i think once it gets cleaned-up and i replace the lights and maybe the dial cover, it'll make a huge difference in how it looks.  hopefully, those lamps can easily be replaced.  (not to mention the critical internal parts!)


----------



## Wingtip

Since the Concept 11.0 is on permanent loan to my father-in-law, my home office system is now a set of Acoustic Research AR-10pi driven by a Rotel RX-1603. The Rotel was completely recapped & restored last fall by Jeff at pacificstereo.net, and I think it's my end-game vintage receiver. At this point, a switch to any other TOTL receiver would be lateral move in performance and downward move in the cosmetics of industrial design. The dual headphone outputs are more than powerful enough to drive my LCD-3, though I really need to rearrange the room to make it easier to reach the receiver. I mostly rely on Mjolnir sitting next to the MacBook on my desk.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice Wingtip!


----------



## AzraelDarkangel

I have a Luxman L-3 I really like.


----------



## PhoenixG

terry parr said:


> went by and listened to a *SONY STR-6055* a week ago tuesday which was on my local CL.  tried making contact with the seller a few weeks ago, but didn't hear back from him.
> 
> i have already just bought a *Technics SA-500* within the past few weeks (which i am very happy with, so i wasn't looking to "upgrade.").  i was looking for a good spare when the Technics should need to go in for some work, and i wanted another amp that would sound comparable so that i wouldn't be without my music (the way i'm used to hearing it, now) while one or the other was being fixed.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm really glad you like the Sony! I've had six or seven from that line give or take a model year and currently still have 3 (2x STR-6120's and a 6040). For a few years there, Sony was trying to compete with McIntosh (or so the story goes....). So the 6060, 6120, and 6200 lines had similar voicing and build quality to the contemporary mac units. When you pull open the 6055, you'll see what I mean. Even the lower units were built with the same military grade parts that give a great tactile feel and durability, and that's before you even get into the electrical parts. High end elna caps and heavy shielding are the norm on them. I also notice that it was a partially sealed construction so they don't get as dusty on the inside except where the heat sinks vent (similar to Mc integrateds). It makes it nice to work on them if they do ever have an issue. Since they're all discrete, they're also easy to modify if you find the need. I modified the power supply on my 6120 to beef it up a tad. It's not an issue with most of the units, but this one had been shorted and was due for an upgrade while I was in there.
  
 While they don't have nearly as much power or quiiiiite the low noise floor of a McIntosh system (so don't throw out your Mac system haha), the Sony's in that line are a fantastic value and I get a lot of enjoyment out of them.


----------



## Oregonian

lapgetreal said:


> How to post pictures?
> 
> Thanks


 

 When you have enough posts (think it's 30) click on the icon that looks like a mountain scene with a sun in the upper left of the box.  May not show up yet on your screen due to not having enough posts yet.  They upload from your computer.


----------



## Oregonian

toopoor said:


> Oregonian,
> 
> Is this too much for a Pioneer Spec 4?
> http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/ele/5446155433.html


 

 Any update?


----------



## terry parr

i've always associated the brand SONY with pedestrian, mass-marketed gear for the average joe.  NOT exceptional-sounding gear that's far-and-away superior to the average.  but, this particular piece certainly IS exceptional-sounding and far-and-away superior-sounding to the average mass-marketed amplifiers and receivers available now. (of the ones i've heard).  by a large margin.
  
 tip o' the hat to the engineers at SONY who were responsible for this particular design.  great job, guys!
  
 and this receiver is circa...(drum roll, please)...nineteen seventy-one!  that's right.  1971.  i was eight-years-old when this receiver was built.  if they could make such an outstanding-sounding receiver way back then, then why does so much of the current crop of integrateds and receivers seem so poorly lacking when it comes to how recorded music is reproduced? (at least heard through the headphone output.  this is _head-fi_, afterall).
  
 the current marantz, anthem, and cambridge audio units that i have listened to within the past few years or so have all left me feeling disappointed as far as their sound quality through the headphone output.  (NOTE:  i realize that i have only listened to mid-level integrated amp models from these manufacturers, so i'm not claiming that my opinion is based on an all-inclusive frame-of-reference).  there is a lot of current gear out there now that i simply haven't heard for myself.   there could very well be certain model numbers from each of these different companies that i would be happy with.  you never know. so, to be fair, i never auditioned any TOTL models from any of these companies.
  
 but, this str-6055 model wasn't marketed as a TOTL model back in it's day, either, was it?  wasn't this model a middle-of-the-road, mid-tier receiver?
  
 so, while trying not to sound like a know-it-all here,  i still have to say that the new integrated amps that i've heard lately have all left me very un-impressed.  (and, feeling that the above-named companies probably do have the know-how to put much better-sounding gear out there in the marketplace). for a reasonable price.     
  
 with this aging SONY however,  it'll allow you to really appreciate reproduced music that has been recorded and mixed well.
  
 it's a VERY enjoyable listen.


----------



## Hutnicks

To be fair. That was the time when Sony was just making their name in Worldwide markets. The 70's was rife with very well built amps in what would be considered mid tier audio. This was far less of a make a million units and ship em all over the world. The industry as a whole was less panicked and far less mass market / disposable electronics focused. They were build better largely in part due to the manufacturers expecting consumers of this equipment to hold on to it for 10 years or so. There was very little of the introduce some gimmik next year so they will come back for another one at that time.


----------



## TooPoor

oregonian said:


> Any update?


 
  
 Unfortunately not... As I mentioned in another earlier post, I don't really trust CL in general and I got cold feet. I emailed the seller and he said it had been serviced, cleaned, etc. But then I asked myself, would I want to chance ~$600 on something that has no warranty/return policy? I decided to hold off until I learn more about vintage receivers in general (ie. being able to do basic services myself).
  
 That being said, I was at a local hifi shop today and was talking shop with the owner who offered me a fully restored, recapped Fisher 500C for $1200. I considered counter-offering $1000 to see if he'd bite, but I didn't have the cash on me to back up my offer. It's a well known/respected place so, in this case, I wasn't worried about getting duped.


----------



## buson160man

hutnicks said:


> To be fair. That was the time when Sony was just making their name in Worldwide markets. The 70's was rife with very well built amps in what would be considered mid tier audio. This was far less of a make a million units and ship em all over the world. The industry as a whole was less panicked and far less mass market / disposable electronics focused. They were build better largely in part due to the manufacturers expecting consumers of this equipment to hold on to it for 10 years or so. There was very little of the introduce some gimmik next year so they will come back for another one at that time.


 

  Boy you hit the nail right on the head and or the ball out of the park. The manufacturers clamor to bring v2 and v3 models out every year or two these days . While the higher end models do seem to be very well built the prices reflect that making a lot of them unattainable for the average person . I am loving my vintage unit more and more each day . But even these old behemoths of a different age are bringing ever higher and higher prices on the used market .I am just glad I got mine when I did or maybe I just lucked out . But I do enjoy my unit and it cost me a lot less than a higher end cavalli and other high end headphone amps like them. The old 70 vintage higher end models that I see on the used market have stood the test of time . But they should be refurbished at some time eventually because they could be ticking time bombs if they fail taking other equipment with them when the bomb does go off .


----------



## Hutnicks

buson160man said:


> Boy you hit the nail right on the head and or the ball out of the park. The manufacturers clamor to bring v2 and v3 models out every year or two these days . While the higher end models do seem to be very well built the prices reflect that making a lot of them unattainable for the average person . I am loving my vintage unit more and more each day . But even these old behemoths of a different age are bringing ever higher and higher prices on the used market .I am just glad I got mine when I did or maybe I just lucked out . But I do enjoy my unit and it cost me a lot less than a higher end cavalli and other high end headphone amps like them. The old 70 vintage higher end models that I see on the used market have stood the test of time . But they should be refurbished at some time eventually because they could be ticking time bombs if they fail taking other equipment with them when the bomb does go off .


 

 They are getting rarer now but the last two I picked up were an 80's vintage Technics SA104 in pristine condition. Whopping 40 watts but it drive headphones just fine. The other a slightly worse condition Realistic STA 2290 which runs slightly hot (note here. Back in the day it was considered hip by some to frack with the biasing to push it into full Class A operation. If yours runs REALLY hot check the bias voltages which should be around 50mv with some folk running as low as 35mv to ease load on the components.) These can still be had for cheap, and _apparently_ are some of the last of the Foster (Fostex) Realistic amps. It drives just about any phone including the orthodynamics to perfection. I paid 5 bucks for each of them so no regrets whatsoever. You wont be setting it on any IKEA stand though
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 Dexoit, new caps, general cleaning and most of these will perform better than they did the day they were new.
  
 Back to the 70's and 80's. If you didn't live through it you most likely would not know that there was a spec war which resulted in a lot of new standards for output ratings that we have today. As folk generally bought a receiver and kept it, competition was rife and everyone was fighting for place in the market. This led to some really incredibly performing boxes coming out at very reasonable prices. It was also the cause for companies like Marantz and Fisher going from top notch to oblivion or selling off their names to the highest bidders. It became impossible to maintain the high quality when mass production amp of the day became the new black. It effectively wiped out the midrange super performing receivers and integrated amps and left us with hollow low grade pasteboard ghosts of former great names and the uber high end like Krell. For a brief period names like Kyocera appeared and offered tremendous value, but the name never took and they are now another MosFet receiver hitting the collectable market.


----------



## Skylab

So I got a good deal on a fully restored and recapped SX-3900, and so I have replaced the SX-1980 in my basement system with the 3900. The 1980 is definitely better sounding, but the 3900 is still very good. I wanted some variety, and since the 1980 in my man cave rig will never, ever be replaced, the basement rig was the place to experiment. And it's been fun so far!


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> So I got a good deal on a fully restored and recapped SX-3900, and so I have replaced the SX-1980 in my basement system with the 3900. The 1980 is definitely better sounding, but the 3900 is still very good. I wanted some variety, and since the 1980 in my man cave rig will never, ever be replaced, the basement rig was the place to experiment. And it's been fun so far!



Looks good man!


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Looks good man!




Thanks buddy!!


----------



## SirMarc

I don't usually like the digital ones, but that looks pretty cool.


----------



## Skylab

The SX-3900 was a fun era...fully analog tuner but with a "digital" display. Many consider the 3900 to be the last real Pioneer monster receiver.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> The SX-3900 was a fun era...fully analog tuner but with a "digital" display. Many consider the 3900 to be the last real Pioneer monster receiver.


 
  
 Skylab - I worked on one of these for a friend recently.  There are switches in the back right which connect via extenders to the buttons on front right panel.  These tend to get dirty over time (the tops are somewhat open to dust and dirt) and will eventually block the sound completely.  Doused them with DeoxIt and it came back to life and sounded terrific.  Definitely a receiver I would not mind having.  They can get fairly pricey on Ebay.


----------



## PhoenixG

Very nice find Rob! I hope your experiments find a worthy successor to the sx-1980! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The 1980 might be the gold standard, but here and there, it's certainly possible to find some slightly better sounding items. Or at least cooler, more modern, digital, monster items.
  
 Quote:


skylab said:


> So I got a good deal on a fully restored and recapped SX-3900, and so I have replaced the SX-1980 in my basement system with the 3900. The 1980 is definitely better sounding, but the 3900 is still very good. I wanted some variety, and since the 1980 in my man cave rig will never, ever be replaced, the basement rig was the place to experiment. And it's been fun so far!


----------



## Pudu

skylab said:


> Spoiler: So I got a good deal on a fully restored and recapped SX-3900




Awesome vintage iron. :tongue_smile:

I don't really have any strong desire to upgrade from the 980, yet. So please stop posting this kind of smut.


----------



## TooPoor

All,
  
  How do we feel about the Sansui 9090? One just popped up today on CL that is very close to me for $650. No real details other than its in good condition and 'all original'. Once again, I'm looking for something that will be great for the HE-6, but also my TH-X00. My even be used on my custom 12" coaxial floorstanders... Just looking for general opinions on the unit from those who are familiar.


----------



## terry parr

i can't help you personally,* TooPoor*, as i've never heard a sansui 9090, but a member here, (*SirMarc*) owns one, and i'm sure when he sees this post he wouldn't mind giving you specific details from first-hand knowledge and experience with that particular unit.
  
 i remember him mentioning this particular model fairly recently, here.
  
  
 (judging by his impressions of the 9090 that i read, i think he kinda likes it!) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
 good luck in your search.
  
  
  
  
 terry


----------



## richard51

toopoor said:


> All,
> 
> How do we feel about the Sansui 9090? One just popped up today on CL that is very close to me for $650. No real details other than its in good condition and 'all original'. Once again, I'm looking for something that will be great for the HE-6, but also my TH-X00. My even be used on my custom 12" coaxial floorstanders... Just looking for general opinions on the unit from those who are familiar.


 

 i dont know for the 9090 but i have the Sansui au 7700 , and it sound very, very, good....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 My best regards are for you....


----------



## SirMarc

toopoor said:


> All,
> 
> How do we feel about the Sansui 9090? One just popped up today on CL that is very close to me for $650. No real details other than its in good condition and 'all original'. Once again, I'm looking for something that will be great for the HE-6, but also my TH-X00. My even be used on my custom 12" coaxial floorstanders... Just looking for general opinions on the unit from those who are familiar.



I love my 9090. Very good detail, excellent soundstage width and depth, strong but tight and well controlled bass, enough power to drive even my power hungry Dahlquist dq20 speakers and maybe most importantly, VU METERS!!! On the vintage warmth scale it falls in between Marantz and Pioneer. Check out Audio Karma, there's a wealth of information on the 9090 over there.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Received my Aiwa AX-7600 yesterday. Put on a European plug and added an FM wire antenna (that thing was already getting good reception without an antenna).
 Pretty nice tuner section I must say. But now I hooked it up to my simple Marantz HD-DAC1 which has a fairly standard DAC section but I always found to have a pretty powerful amp section with a nice mid-warmth. Listened to the Marantz for a bit then plugged the phones into the Aiwa. MAN! What a difference. Power, smoothness, lovely warmth! 
 And the beauty: analog meters and tuner scale, the size and feel of the knobs, yellow backlighting (can't remember when I last saw that), reall glass ...
 I must say MinedSafe did a really great job on restoring that amp and I'm glad I bought it.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> The SX-3900 was a fun era...fully analog tuner but with a "digital" display. Many consider the 3900 to be the last real Pioneer monster receiver.


 
  
 I love your rack just as much as Oregonian's!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Need a little info here guys.
  
 Trying to decide between a Marantz 2330B, Pioneer SX-1250 and Sansui 9090DB.
 From what I read the last couple of years, the Marantz could be a bit too warm and bloomy, the Pioneer just a hint of warmth (and a little dry according to some) and the Sansui inbetween them.
 Another set of options would be 2385, SX-1980 and G-9000. But where does one get those at reasonable prices?
  
 Anybody here planning to sell an amp like that? My head is spinning from all the searches. 
 Or any good shop where I could buy them, not an auction site?
  
 Any advice on the three brands? I'm leaning towards the Sansui 9090DB.
 Just wondering if that DB board fails it would be possible to find a replacement.
 And yes, there's the 9090 without DB, but hard to find in good shape and the DB one seems to sound better as well.


----------



## Skylab

I have had several of those. My Marantz was the 2285. I also had an SX-1250, and a Sansui 9090DB. They all sounded excellent in their own way. All of mine had been restored recapped except the 1250, because of course I went the SX-1980 route in the end. 

Inspite of the restore, I had periodic issues with the DB board in my 9090DB which caused intermittent channel level problems. I would actually recommend a straight 9090 over the DB. But I personally liked the Pioneer sound better, obviously. The "dry" sound people find in the Pioneer receivers is due to the tantalum caps in the preamp section. Once those are replaced, they are glorious sounding. But all of the higher end receivers from that era sound excellent.

I'm actually selling one of my fully restored SX-1980's right now, but unfortunately you are on the other side of the ocean


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> I have had several of those. My Marantz was the 2285. I also had an SX-1250, and a Sansui 9090DB. They all sounded excellent in their own way. All of mine had been restored recapped except the 1250, because of course I went the SX-1980 route in the end.
> 
> Inspite of the restore, I had periodic issues with the DB board in my 9090DB which caused intermittent channel level problems. I would actually recommend a straight 9090 over the DB. But I personally liked the Pioneer sound better, obviously. The "dry" sound people find in the Pioneer receivers is due to the tantalum caps in the preamp section. Once those are replaced, they are glorious sounding. But all of the higher end receivers from that era sound excellent.
> 
> I'm actually selling one of my fully restored SX-1980's right now, but unfortunately you are on the other side of the ocean


 
  
  
 Thanks for the info Skylab!
  
 SX-1980? Is is dual voltage? And very expensive?


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Need a little info here guys.
> 
> Trying to decide between a Marantz 2330B, Pioneer SX-1250 and Sansui 9090DB.
> From what I read the last couple of years, the Marantz could be a bit too warm and bloomy, the Pioneer just a hint of warmth (and a little dry according to some) and the Sansui inbetween them.
> ...



I went with the 9090 because the dolby board on the db made me nervous. Very happy with my 9090, sounds awesome with just the right amount of warmth for me. I also think the straight 9090 looks better because the vu meters are centered. Good luck


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> I have had several of those. My Marantz was the 2285. I also had an SX-1250, and a Sansui 9090DB. They all sounded excellent in their own way. All of mine had been restored recapped except the 1250, because of course I went the SX-1980 route in the end.
> 
> Inspite of the restore, I had periodic issues with the DB board in my 9090DB which caused intermittent channel level problems. I would actually recommend a straight 9090 over the DB. But I personally liked the Pioneer sound better, obviously. The "dry" sound people find in the Pioneer receivers is due to the tantalum caps in the preamp section. Once those are replaced, they are glorious sounding. But all of the higher end receivers from that era sound excellent.
> 
> I'm actually selling one of my fully restored SX-1980's right now, but unfortunately you are on the other side of the ocean



Damn bro, you like the 3900 that much? I see 3700's pop up around here pretty often for cheap, maybe I'll grab one...


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Thanks for the info Skylab!
> 
> SX-1980? Is is dual voltage? And very expensive?




Ahh, yes probably not dual voltage. And while I think I have priced mine slightly under market, the market price of a fully restored 1980 is undeniably expensive, yes. I have it listed at $3,750. Much less nice ones on eBay are listed for +/- $5,000.




sirmarc said:


> I went with the 9090 because the dolby board on the db made me nervous. Very happy with my 9090, sounds awesome with just the right amount of warmth for me. I also think the straight 9090 looks better because the vu meters are centered. Good luck




Yup, a very good call. BTW the meter lamps on a 9090 are fuse-style and can very easily be replaced with blue LEDs which for the meters I think looks killer.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Ahh, yes probably not dual voltage. And while I think I have priced mine slightly under market, the market price of a fully restored 1980 is undeniably expensive, yes. I have it listed at $3,750. Much less nice ones on eBay are listed for +/- $5,000.
> Yup, a very good call. BTW the meter lamps on a 9090 are fuse-style and can very easily be replaced with blue LEDs which for the meters I think looks killer.


 
  
 Yeah, from most pics I've seen the Pioneers aren't dual voltage, the Sansui are though. Nice price though for a fully restored one!
 What is wrong with you guys? 110V, miles, pounds, gallons ... I'm amazed you still drive on the right side of the road.


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Damn bro, you like the 3900 that much? I see 3700's pop up around here pretty often for cheap, maybe I'll grab one...




Remember I am only replacing ONE of my 1980's with the 3900  My main vintage system will always be SX-1980 based. I love the 1980. But for the basement I felt having a second 1980 was just overkill and I'd like to put the funds into something else. I was able to get the fully restored and recapped 3900 for $650. 




appleheadmay said:


> Yeah, from most pics I've seen the Pioneers aren't dual voltage, the Sansui are though. Nice price though for a fully restored one!
> What is wrong with you guys? 110V, miles, pounds, gallons ... I'm amazed you still drive on the right side of the road.




LOL!!!!


----------



## SirMarc

On a side note, my 9090 is in for service, so I pulled out my Kenwood kr-7600 for the interim. It isn't 'quite' as nice as my 9090, the soundstage is a bit smaller and less layered, the midrange is a bit less sweet and the bass isn't quite as tight, but it sounds damn good nonetheless. Most of the focus here is on Pioneer and Sansui, but there are some nice, and much cheaper, receivers out there to get your feet wet with...


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Remember I am only replacing ONE of my 1980's with the 3900  My main vintage system will always be SX-1980 based. I love the 1980. But for the basement I felt having a second 1980 was just overkill and I'd like to put the funds into something else. I was able to get the fully restored and recapped 3900 for $650.
> LOL!!!!



Nice man! What's next on the horizon? You just love making us shlubs jealous eh? Lol


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Remember I am only replacing ONE of my 1980's with the 3900
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 So, is the 3900 still a very nice receiver like the 1980? 
 And where do you find a fully restored and recapped one for a price like that? On eBay they cost more in nice condition but not serviced.


----------



## AppleheadMay

And also, say I find one and want it fully restored and recapped. Where do I send it to in the US? Any good places in Europe as well? Or anyone who can help me with getting it to a good US repair shop and have it sent to me?


----------



## Oregonian

appleheadmay said:


> So, is the 3900 still a very nice receiver like the 1980?
> And where do you find a fully restored and recapped one for a price like that? On eBay they cost more in nice condition but not serviced.


 

 There's a gent on Audiokarma that seems to specialize in restoring 3900's and has a few for sale.  Forget his handle but Rob will remember when he sees this.


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> So, is the 3900 still a very nice receiver like the 1980?
> And where do you find a fully restored and recapped one for a price like that? On eBay they cost more in nice condition but not serviced.




PM me and I will give you the guy's details. He has several more...

The 3900 isn't as good sounding as the 1980, but it's a very nice receiver nonetheless. 




oregonian said:


> There's a gent on Audiokarma that seems to specialize in restoring 3900's and has a few for sale.  Forget his handle but Rob will remember when he sees this.




Yup, there are actually several...Tom B is the guy I got mine from.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Does anyone in Europe know these guys in The Netherlands?
  
 http://www.hifistereo.nl/Reparatie.html
  
 They seem to do everything: restauration, recapping, service, repairs, ...


----------



## AppleheadMay

Hmm, I wonder, SX-980 or SX-3900.
 Not regarding the wattage, isn't the 980 of the same series as 1080, 1280, 1980?
 So wouldn't the sound of a 980 be better than a 3900?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

For give me for being a noob are you guys talking about Pioneer SX-3900?Three weeks ago i went to audition one of this SX-3900 i end up not buying it because of the very poor Case condition and missing 2 knobs but the  unit is in fully working conditions however the seller and i did not agree on the asking price which is not that much($100CAD)if i only knew how good/desirable this unit is i should have grab it.


----------



## Oregonian

Wow................check this posting out gents.  Never heard of this before..............it's on our local cl.
  
 http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5469065730.html


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Hmm, I wonder, SX-980 or SX-3900.
> Not regarding the wattage, isn't the 980 of the same series as 1080, 1280, 1980?
> So wouldn't the sound of a 980 be better than a 3900?




It really depends on the condition. However, if both were recapped, then yes, I would expect the 980 to sound better than the 3900. The 3900 has a little more power, since it was the TOTL of that series.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> It really depends on the condition. However, if both were recapped, then yes, I would expect the 980 to sound better than the 3900. The 3900 has a little more power, since it was the TOTL of that series.


 
  
 Here's the info on the 980: (750€)
 Pioneer SX-980 with new caps and LED. 
I think many of the Pioneer Receivers fans out there knowing this unit very well. This one have had full service.
 New caps in power supply (Panasonic FC)
 New caps in the signal path (Nichicon Fine Gold Audio)
 New Lamps (led) Original sockets for Pioneer.
 New Main Caps MALLORY 75vdc and 26000uF
 All switches working perfect.
 Radio unit is excellent 
 All adjustments has been done accordantly to the service manual. 
  
 And on the 3700: (1000€)
 PIONEER SX-3900 VERY RARE EXCELLENT CONDITION LIKE MUSEUM PIECE.
 It comes with its original box and manual.
 So I think in excellent condition but not recapped or anything. I'd better wait for your guy if I decide on a 3700 Rob.
  
 And a 9900: (650€)
Excellent Sansui 9090 Receiver for Sale
It is in an excellent physical condition and also it is working perfectly.
All lights and circuits are original.  The wooden cabinet is very good.
So not serviced either.
  
  
 I did find that address in The Netherlands to do a full service so I could have the 3700 or 9900 serviced.
 The amps would mainly be used for phones and maybe a pair of *THESE*, since I love their vintage look and don't want to put anything larger on my desk, unless you guys have some other nice vintage suggestions that are not too big?
  
 I love the looks of the 980 just as much as those of the 3700. I absolutley love the dual phones output on the 9900.
 Your thoughts and ideas are welcome gents!


----------



## AppleheadMay

This 9090 says "serviced by the owner".
  
 Can anyone see from the pic if it has been recapped?


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> I have had several of those. My Marantz was the 2285. I also had an SX-1250, and a Sansui 9090DB. They all sounded excellent in their own way. All of mine had been restored recapped except the 1250, because of course I went the SX-1980 route in the end.
> 
> Inspite of the restore, I had periodic issues with the DB board in my 9090DB which caused intermittent channel level problems. I would actually recommend a straight 9090 over the DB. But I personally liked the Pioneer sound better, obviously. The "dry" sound people find in the Pioneer receivers is due to the tantalum caps in the preamp section. Once those are replaced, they are glorious sounding. But all of the higher end receivers from that era sound excellent.
> 
> I'm actually selling one of my fully restored SX-1980's right now, but unfortunately you are on the other side of the ocean


 
  
 Two more questions if I may Rob:
  
 From this description, have the tantalum caps in the preamp section been replaced?
 


> New caps in power supply (Panasonic FC)
> New caps in the signal path (Nichicon Fine Gold Audio)
> New Lamps (led) Original sockets for Pioneer.
> New Main Caps MALLORY 75vdc and 26000uF


 
  
 And about the SX-980, if only used for headphones, would it sound as good as a Pioneer SX-1080-1280-1980?
I must say I'm already blown away by the headphone out from the Aiwa AX-7600. It sure rocks!


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> This 9090 says "serviced by the owner".
> 
> Can anyone see from the pic if it has been recapped?


 
  
 The gray ones look like old Elna electrolytic caps to me - proceed with caution.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> Two more questions if I may Rob:
> 
> From this description, have the tantalum caps in the preamp section been replaced?
> 
> ...


 
  
 He could have replaced just one cap in the signal path - I would ask straight out if the tants have been replaced.  Personally I would not want a Pioneer with any tants anywhere.  The change is night and day once they are replaced.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks for the advice SpeakerBox!
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> The gray ones look like old Elna electrolytic caps to me - proceed with caution.


 
  
 Thanks, but does it matter if I will have the thing serviced and recapped anyway? I can have the full package (reatoration, service, tuning, recapping, leds, ...) for about 200€. The company I found seems to be very professional, I read a review of someone with a few vintage amps that highly recommends them. 
 I spoke to them on the phone just this morning.
  


speakerbox said:


> He could have replaced just one cap in the signal path - I would ask straight out if the tants have been replaced.  Personally I would not want a Pioneer with any tants anywhere.  The change is night and day once they are replaced.


 
  
 Ok. So tants are a kind of caps we don't want.
 If I do want to have all of them replaced, where are they located? Only the preamp section or are there more of them?
 If I buy that thing I need to let the service guy I found know what needs to be done.
 Is there an easily visible difference between tants and other caps so I can detect them and if so what do they look like? A pic by any chance?
 Sorry for the possible stupid questions but I know nothing about that tech stuff.
 Same thing here thus, I will have the amp serviced and recapped anyway, except for the parts that already have been recapped if done properly.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The tants can be anywhere - every Pioneer I have worked on has had them in the pre-amp and power amp.  There were tons of them in a 750 I just recapped (which now sounds glorious by the way and is in use for HP listening).  They are small egg shaped caps.  See the link below for a picture:
  
 http://thestereoclub.blogspot.com/2009/09/pioneer-sx-1250-receiver.html
  
 Unfortunately many manufactures used them in the seventies and they are prone to failure and harsh sound.  I just pulled a bunch of them out of my Sherwood 8900A too.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Perfect, just the exact info I needed. I'm preparing a whole file for the repair guy here. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Thanks SpeakerBox!
  
  
  
  
 Here's a link here to an eBay auction in Germany for a 1250. Don't fall from your chair if you see the price.
 Or is the 1250 (TOTL xx50 series) so much better than the xx80 series?
  
 http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/161975399304?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I asked him why his price was so high and if it has been serviced and this was his answer:


> Hello,
> I am a dealer of the amplifier works as properly processed previously or not I can not tell them


 
 That was his complete and full answer by the way.
 Nuts?


----------



## Skylab

Right, it's hard to tell from just the description of the 980 if all the caps that need to be replaced were, or not. You'd have to ask the seller. And of you buy a Pioneer to have it restored later, make sure you ask the restorer to replace the tantalum AND electrolytic caps


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> Perfect, just the exact info I needed. I'm preparing a whole file for the repair guy here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well - I am a big fan of the xx50 series.  Right now I have two 1250s and a 750.  IMHO I think $1000 to $1500 is a more reasonable price for a restored 1250 (having done two myself).  I would think that price should include a complete recap, cleaning, Deoxit treatment, and Bias (100mv), Offset (a couple of mv), PS rail adjustment (+/- 65V).
  
 When properly restored the sound is absolutely awesome (especially the FM section).  Generally I replace electrolytic caps with film where ever possible and then use Nichicon audio grade electrolytic caps in the rest of the locations.


----------



## richard51

wow , i think that the price i had paid for my sansui AU-7700 , 100 bucks + 100 bucks recapped is the century bargain .... The sound of this vintage "damoizelle" is more than good, and i thanks all in this thread...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 By the way my amplifier sit on top of 2 granite plate, and between them i had put 4 pieces of sorbothane to damp the amp...Greater sound! just some suggestion to read about the sorb. thread...


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks Skylab and SpeakerBox, all noted to give instructions to the restore guy.
  
 I think the 980 will be a good choice from the options I have here in Europe. I guess a 1080 or 1280 won't give me more quality (just watts) when the main use would be driving phones and maybe these small new-vintage look Pioneer speakers. 6 Ohm thopugh, hope that's not a problem.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Right, it's hard to tell from just the description of the 980 if all the caps that need to be replaced were, or not. You'd have to ask the seller. And of you buy a Pioneer to have it restored later, make sure you ask the restorer to replace the tantalum AND electrolytic caps


 
  
 Just an FYI - Tantalums are just another form of electrolytic caps - albeit not a very good one.


----------



## Shazb0t

I have a HE-6 that I have been running off of an Emotive mini-X speaker amp.  I have a preference to stay in the low budget/bang for buck area when purchasing audio equipment.  I have heard countless times on the forums that I haven't heard the best of the HE-6 unless I purchase a really expensive speaker amp from First Watt, Pass Labs, Audio-gd, etc.  I don't have the budget to purchase any of these higher priced amps.  
  
 I have also seen many references to achieving great sound out of vintage receivers for a modest price.  This is something that I am willing to give a shot.  I only need the receiver to power the HE-6 so I don't need massive wattage output.  I believe I can get away with a lower output receiver from a highly regarded series.  Being that the HE-6 leans more on the bright side of the spectrum I think pairing it with a receiver that is a little darker would suit my tastes the best.  From reading a bit of this thread I have gravitated towards a vintage Marantz as a good theoretical pairing.  I see that the 2285B is listed by many as a good example of the Marantz sound.  My question: is there a lower output amp in the 22XX series that has the same quality of sound as the 2285B, or reference Marantz if that is the wrong one to base off of, for a lower price?  For example, would the 2230B or 2220B fit the bill best for my HE-6 application?  Are there different models I should be keeping a look out for?  There seems to be a ton of 22XX amps, B and non-B, that are out there.  I would just like some guidance on which models would give me the highest quality sound at the lowest price keeping in mind the intended use is for an HE-6 rig.  Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well - last night I sold one of my two 1250s.  Of the two it was the best sounding as I had done a much higher level of restoration on it - but not as nice cosmetics.  But the one I kept is absolutely mint cosmetically and will shortly be restored to the same level as the other.  Will still miss the other one though as I got a couple of years of pure listening bliss from it.  I sold it for $750 due to the cosmetics so I think the buyer got a good deal and I hope he enjoys it like I did.
  
 My remaining stash:
  
 Mint/Partial Restore Pioneer SX-1250 driving Large Advents and hooked to a Mint Pioneer PL-518,
 Mint/Restored Pioneer SX-750 on my night stand for HP listening, and
 Mint/Restored Sherwood S-8900A being used as a backup - but may sell at some point.
  
 I have to say that the restored 750 is surprisingly good sounding.  It sounded awful before the recap - but not any more.  Rich, warm, and very punchy.  Lots of slam and weight to the music.
  
 Love this hobby!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Skylab - I see your 1980 on Ebay.  It looks absolutely beautiful!  Must be hard to let it go.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> I have to say that the restored 750 is surprisingly good sounding.  It sounded awful before the recap - but not any more.  Rich, warm, and very punchy.  Lots of slam and weight to the music.
> 
> Love this hobby!


 
  
  
 Do you like the SX-750 as much as the 1250 for headphones?
  
  
 And a questions to other people here in the thread who have heard both Pioneer xx80 or xx50 series and Sansui 9090?
 I have found two nice options as I mentioned above, an SX-980 and a 9090. I'm having a hard time choosing. I appreciate Skylab's and SpeakerBox's feedback but would like to know if there are people in favor of the Sansui and why. I'm not going to buy both at once.
  
 As to driving speakers, any tips for smallish speakers to connect to those amps? Those new vintage looking Pioneers fine for occasional use? Main use would be phones anyway.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I do not have real good HPs.  I have a pair of JVC HA RX700s with NVX replacement pads.  In my particular case the SX750 sounds better than the SX1250 with the aforementioned HPs.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> Skylab - I see your 1980 on Ebay.  It looks absolutely beautiful!  Must be hard to let it go.




It is hard to let it go, although the one I'm keeping is even nicer


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> It is hard to let it go, although the one I'm keeping is even nicer


 
  
 I felt bad watching my first 1250 drive away last night, can't imagine letting a 1980 go.


----------



## Shazb0t

shazb0t said:


> I have a HE-6 that I have been running off of an Emotive mini-X speaker amp.  I have a preference to stay in the low budget/bang for buck area when purchasing audio equipment.  I have heard countless times on the forums that I haven't heard the best of the HE-6 unless I purchase a really expensive speaker amp from First Watt, Pass Labs, Audio-gd, etc.  I don't have the budget to purchase any of these higher priced amps.
> 
> I have also seen many references to achieving great sound out of vintage receivers for a modest price.  This is something that I am willing to give a shot.  I only need the receiver to power the HE-6 so I don't need massive wattage output.  I believe I can get away with a lower output receiver from a highly regarded series.  Being that the HE-6 leans more on the bright side of the spectrum I think pairing it with a receiver that is a little darker would suit my tastes the best.  From reading a bit of this thread I have gravitated towards a vintage Marantz as a good theoretical pairing.  I see that the 2285B is listed by many as a good example of the Marantz sound.  My question: is there a lower output amp in the 22XX series that has the same quality of sound as the 2285B, or reference Marantz if that is the wrong one to base off of, for a lower price?  For example, would the 2230B or 2220B fit the bill best for my HE-6 application?  Are there different models I should be keeping a look out for?  There seems to be a ton of 22XX amps, B and non-B, that are out there.  I would just like some guidance on which models would give me the highest quality sound at the lowest price keeping in mind the intended use is for an HE-6 rig.  Any help would be appreciated, thanks.


 

 Any advice?


----------



## AppleheadMay

shazb0t said:


> Any advice?


 
  
 Can't really give any serious advice since I just got into the hobby but from what I've heard from my recently aquired Aiwa with a mere 40W per channel output it's my guess the phones out on these things is pretty powerful. With most of my phones 2 on a scale of 10 is pretty darn loud and with the LCD-XC I can get it up to 3. Luckily the pot is not stepped and it's very sensitive so you can really fine tune the volume. Also, it has bass and treble controls so you can finetune that to your wish as well. I see most of them have the ancient loudness bustton like mine does but I can't see a purpose for it, it puts out plenty of bass as it is.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Still intersted in opinoins for speakers for a vintage receiver that has more than 100W output. 
 Probably those little Pioneers I mentioned aren't a good choice?
 I can better take something vintage as well that is harder to drive, seen the output of these monster receivers?
 Any suggestions that are not too large are welcome.
  
 I have a 1280 on my radar as well, cosmetically perfect but will have a full service by the dealer who will sell it.


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> Still intersted in opinoins for speakers for a vintage receiver that has more than 100W output.
> Probably those little Pioneers I mentioned aren't a good choice?
> I can better take something vintage as well that is harder to drive, seen the output of these monster receivers?
> Any suggestions that are not too large are welcome.
> ...


 
 For modern speakers, my usual go-to for decent speakers at a reasonable cost are the infinity primus line. I've had 2 sets for a 40 & 60 watt receiver respectively and they can handle a bit over 100W if memory serves me right. Good sound, exemplary build quality, several sizes and responses to choose from, between $100-600 a pair depending on which ones you get. They're pretty easy to find used. For a dedicated setup, I'd be looking at the slightly larger ones to take advantage of the deep bass response that you'd need a woofer to fill in on the smaller ones.
 That's just my 2 cents.


----------



## frahengeo

appleheadmay said:


> Still intersted in opinoins for speakers for a vintage receiver that has more than 100W output.
> Probably those little Pioneers I mentioned aren't a good choice?
> I can better take something vintage as well that is harder to drive, seen the output of these monster receivers?
> Any suggestions that are not too large are welcome.
> ...


 
  
 If you haven't already, I would setup an account over at Audiokarma, and inquire there.  Plenty of information regarding Pioneer receivers mated with various brand speakers.
  
 For HP, this is THE place to get info.  For vintage audio, you are more likely to get feedback at AK.  Good luck!!


----------



## Wingtip

appleheadmay said:


> Still intersted in opinoins for speakers for a vintage receiver that has more than 100W output.
> Probably those little Pioneers I mentioned aren't a good choice?


 
 If you want to go with modern Pioneer speakers, I really like the SP-BS22-LR, and they're an excellent value. I heard them at THE Show back in 2013 or 2014. Andrew Jones was there, showing off the TAD Reference One (a truly amazing speaker), and he encouraged everyone in the room to walk next door to hear the little Pioneers. He designed both the TAD and the Pioneers, and he was very proud of his engineering team's ability to deliver remarkable performance at a very low price point. As you would expect for such a small and inexpensive speaker, they roll off at the higher frequencies and can't deliver real bass, but as Mr. Jones put it, "they fail in very pleasant ways."
  
 If you want to stick with vintage, maybe Pioneer HPM-100? I really like the sound of vintage acoustic suspension designs from the late seventies when paired with classic monster receivers. You can't go wrong with the New Large Advent or Acoustic Research AR-11.


----------



## Mechans1

I recall a Sony floor standing speaker that was highly praised by Stereophile a couple years ago.  It would be very elpful if you give us a budget. for this project.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks for the tips @Phoenix and @Wingtip, made me remember the Infinity Kappa 60 and Kappa 5a as well. I was a big fan of the larger speakers of those serires in the early days.
  
 I'll setup an account at Audiokarma as well @Frahengeo, will be nioe to see some more info there as well. Though I think it's primarely US based so not really a good place to buy speakers for me, a bit troublesome to ship something that size to Europe.
  
 Still, can't seem to get these out of my head as well, love the vintage look. I did hear them once, fairly nice sound for a small speaker but can't really be compared to the B&W PM1, totally different sound.
 http://hificorner.nl/speakers/boekenplank/pioneer/pioneer-a4spt-vp-vintage-darkwood
  
  
 Regarding amps, I didn't buy the SX-980 but went with the Sansui 9090 (non-DB) instead.
 The seller was a professional vintage audio shop in Poland and the amp was fully restored by him.
 I'll send it to the shop in Holland as well to do a checkup anyway.
 The same seller has a mint SX-1280 incoming in perfect cosmetical shape and he will do a full restore on it as well.
 Should all be done in a few months and he'll give me dibs on it at a fair price.
 So that's why I took the Sansui now, I preferred a 1280 to a 980 anyway and this way I can get both the Sansui and Pioneer I want.
 An SX-1980 isn't really what I need since it's way too powerful to drive small speakers. Not to mention the much higher price. I'll be happy with the 1280 that shares it's looks. Still, I consider the 1280 a dream of an amp though.
  
  
 One more question: any Marantz 2385 fans here that prefer it to the Sansui or Pioneers?


----------



## AppleheadMay

mechans1 said:


> I recall a Sony floor standing speaker that was highly praised by Stereophile a couple years ago.  It would be very elpful if you give us a budget. for this project.


 
  
  
 It's a bookshelf I need, preferably not too big.
 Don't really have a budget set out for this but let's say 1K max. Though seen the prices mentioned here it doesn't need to be 1K, if it's 150 bucks I'm fine with it as well as long as it's small, suitable for a vintage monster amp and honestly, I appreciate good looking as well.
 I don't ask for much do I?


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Thanks for the tips @Phoenix and @Wingtip, made me remember the Infinity Kappa 60 and Kappa 5a as well. I was a big fan of the larger speakers of those serires in the early days.
> 
> I'll setup an account at Audiokarma as well @Frahengeo, will be nioe to see some more info there as well. Though I think it's primarely US based so not really a good place to buy speakers for me, a bit troublesome to ship something that size to Europe.
> 
> ...



Wait till you hear the soundstage on the Sansui. Mine is in for service and I'm really missing it...


----------



## SirMarc

I'm using my back up, a Kenwood kr-7600, which sounds good, but its like going from 3D to 2D...


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Wait till you hear the soundstage on the Sansui. Mine is in for service and I'm really missing it...


 


sirmarc said:


> I'm using my back up, a Kenwood kr-7600, which sounds good, but its like going from 3D to 2D...


 
  
 Nice to hear, can't wait to receive mine. It's shipping tomorrow, should take less than a week.
 I love the dual headphone outputs. I hope they can be used simultaneously?


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Nice to hear, can't wait to receive mine. It's shipping tomorrow, should take less than a week.
> I love the dual headphone outputs. I hope they can be used simultaneously?



Yeah, you can use them both


----------



## AppleheadMay

Great! Missed that since I sold the GS-X MkII, being able to A/B phones straight from the same amp.


----------



## SirMarc

When I got my 9090 last year I stopped buying vintage gear. I loved it that much. It was exactly what I was looking for. Just the right amount of warmth, with fantastic soundstage width and depth. Good luck, I hope you enjoy it


----------



## richard51

i am in love with my Sansui AU 7700... Just read about his many quality features and bought it for nothing ... He is so good that he drive my planars speakers with a touch of velvet sound, liquid mids that married with my Stax SR-5, way better than my Hitachi sr 904...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  And the two Amp and earspeakers comme from the 1975 glorious  era.... a match made in heaven...


----------



## AppleheadMay

What we should have here is a Vintage section in the For Sale/For Trade forum.
 Not for vintage phones but speakers, amps, receivers, tuners, tape reels/decks etc ...
 Maybe a tip for the mods?


----------



## Wingtip

As frahengeo noted above, Audiokarma already occupies the vintage hi-fi gear niche. No need to reinvent the wheel, especially since there doesn't seem to be a rule against posting such items in the existing head-fi for sale/trade forum. I've seen vintage receivers for sale in the amplification section.


----------



## SpeakerBox

wingtip said:


> As frahengeo noted above, Audiokarma already occupies the vintage hi-fi gear niche. No need to reinvent the wheel, especially since there doesn't seem to be a rule against posting such items in the existing head-fi for sale/trade forum. I've seen vintage receivers for sale in the amplification section.


 
  
 Hey - have you ever checked the deadwax on your Cat Stevens to see if Lee Hulko signed it with his initials (LH)?  He is a record mastering engineer to die for.  Many audiophiles will collect everything he has signed due to the sound quality.  I have a copy of tea for the tillerman with LH on it.  As you might guess the sound is fantastic!  There are others in the same category (Herb Powers, Robert Ludwig, to name a few).  When I go to GW looking for vinyl the first thing I do is look for these signatures.


----------



## Oregonian

appleheadmay said:


> What we should have here is a Vintage section in the For Sale/For Trade forum.
> Not for vintage phones but speakers, amps, receivers, tuners, tape reels/decks etc ...
> Maybe a tip for the mods?


 

 If you join at Audiokarma for $25, there's a subforum called Barter Town that has a huge amount of activity and usually good pricing.


----------



## Wingtip

speakerbox said:


> Hey - have you ever checked the deadwax on your Cat Stevens to see if Lee Hulko signed it with his initials (LH)?



Yeah, it's an LH, and it's fantastic. One of my best-sounding original (i.e. non-audiophile reissue) LPs. Others include David Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name, The Eagles self-titled debut, Paul Simon's Here Comes Rhymin' Simon, Jimmy Buffet's Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Toto IV, Hall & Oates' Private Eyes, Fleetwood Mac's s/t debut and Rumours, Joni Mitchell's Blue, and the Grateful Dead's Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.

My uncle gave me a couple hundred LPs the other week and I got really excited when I saw a Robert Ludwig pressing of Houses of the Holy, but alas there was no RL Led Zep II in the boxes.


----------



## frahengeo

appleheadmay said:


> Though I think it's primarely US based so not really a good place to buy speakers for me, a bit troublesome to ship something that size to Europe.
> Still, can't seem to get these out of my head as well, love the vintage look. I did hear them once, fairly nice sound for a small speaker but can't really be compared to the B&W PM1, totally different sound.
> One more question: any Marantz 2385 fans here that prefer it to the Sansui or Pioneers?


 
  
 Hi AppleheadMay,
  
 My point regarding joining AK was specifically to answer questions like you've asked regarding vintage gear, and not as a place to buy/sell/trade gear.
  
 Questions like:  (Marantz, Sansui, Yamaha, Pioneer, or Luxman?  Synergy with particular speaker brand/model?  Warm, or analytical?) may be answered over at AK.
  
 Who knows, you may find yourself dividing your time between head-fi, and AK like I do.


----------



## SpeakerBox

wingtip said:


> Yeah, it's an LH, and it's fantastic. One of my best-sounding original (i.e. non-audiophile reissue) LPs. Others include David Crosby's If I Could Only Remember My Name, The Eagles self-titled debut, Paul Simon's Here Comes Rhymin' Simon, Jimmy Buffet's Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Toto IV, Hall & Oates' Private Eyes, Fleetwood Mac's s/t debut and Rumours, Joni Mitchell's Blue, and the Grateful Dead's Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.
> 
> My uncle gave me a couple hundred LPs the other week and I got really excited when I saw a Robert Ludwig pressing of Houses of the Holy, but alas there was no RL Led Zep II in the boxes.


 
  
 Ya, I hear the bass on RLs Led Zep II was so good that many needles would jump out of the groove.  I have three or four records from GW that had Ludwig (Matserdisk) in the runout.  Only one Herb Powers so far which is Sade's Promise.  Outstanding sound though.


----------



## AppleheadMay

frahengeo said:


> Hi AppleheadMay,
> 
> My point regarding joining AK was specifically to answer questions like you've asked regarding vintage gear, and not as a place to buy/sell/trade gear.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks for clarifying. I thought it was more of a trading site, mainly US. I came across it a few times when doing searches though.
 I'll get myself signed up there and see what I can find.
 Nontheless, I think I found myself some nice gear with help from headfiers and searching around the web.
 I just wish I could try out a Pioneer as well right away. Comparing, discovering, part of the fun as well for me. 
 Well, maybe in a few months that 1280 if the price is right.
  
 Thanks for all the help the past few days guys, really appreciate it. This is certainly a thread that will remain on my subscribed list.


----------



## Mechans1

No not too much.  I hope you realize that there is almost never an amp which has too many watts of power.  Distortion is what blows speakers not clean watts with plenty of headroom. This is true for virtually any set up where you are not trying ton play the amp/speaker combo at its highest possible output.  I am sure you know what I mean.  Yes you can play a speaker beyond its limits but there are plenty of warning signs that you are exceeding the speaker's capacity.  So if you aren't playing heavy metal to a large packed party  room with small speakers and a weak amp you should be OK.
 I am not a speaker expert, despite owning 9 pairs at the moment.  There are forums that do address speaker questions, I would try Audio Asylum speaker Asylum if I were you, and avail yourself of the search feature for any of the Asylums.  It is free to participate you may be asked to have an account to sell things can't


----------



## AppleheadMay

mechans1 said:


> No not too much.  I hope you realize that there is almost never an amp which has too many watts of power.  Distortion is what blows speakers not clean watts with plenty of headroom. This is true for virtually any set up where you are not trying ton play the amp/speaker combo at its highest possible output.  I am sure you know what I mean.  Yes you can play a speaker beyond its limits but there are plenty of warning signs that you are exceeding the speaker's capacity.  So if you aren't playing heavy metal to a large packed party  room with small speakers and a weak amp you should be OK.
> I am not a speaker expert, despite owning 9 pairs at the moment.  There are forums that do address speaker questions, I would try Audio Asylum speaker Asylum if I were you, and avail yourself of the search feature for any of the Asylums.  It is free to participate you may be asked to have an account to sell things can't


 
  
 Yup you're right about that. But 270 real Watts, probably even more measured is a hell of a lot. I think I will do nice with a 185W  1280 for small bookshelves and mainly headphone use. But indeed, I did blow speakers once (or actually a drunk friend of mine blew one of my speakers) with a cheapo Kenwood from the 90s.
  
 By the way, here's the link to the shop in Poland where I bought my Sansui from. Seems like a decent service.
 Maybe of some help for people in Europe that are looking for vintage audio gear.
 Probably a little more expensive than in the US but so is everything else here and they service their products before selling.
 http://www.retroaudio.biz/?lang=en


----------



## Pudu

appleheadmay said:


> ...As to driving speakers, any tips for smallish speakers to connect to those amps? Those new vintage looking Pioneers fine for occasional use? Main use would be phones anyway.







wingtip said:


> If you want to go with modern Pioneer speakers, I really like the SP-BS22-LR, and they're an excellent value...





I use psb bookshelf speakers with my 980 in my study all day long.




They sound great together, *but* I wanted to get the Pioneers, however I was in India at the time and had to buy what I could find locally. The psb are great, sonically and aesthetically, but also substantially more money (especially in India ). If circumstances had permitted I would likely have the Pioneers instead.


----------



## Oregonian

I was fortunate to find a pair of Polk Audio M5JR "bookshelf" (tho they are a bit taller than your usual bookshelf) that I run in my family room TV/audio system fed by a Pioneer SX-1050 (120 wpc) - I think the key is to add a sub to any of these systems.  I have an Energy 8" sub feeding off the "C" speaker tabs and in combination with the Polk's it makes for an incredible setup.  The Polks alone have great sound and quite capable bass (6" driver and a 6" passive reflector or whatever you call them) but adding the sub was the best thing I did, for both audio and movies.  It would seem they are overmatched with that monster receiver but really, at least in my application, they won't ever be overdriven and the sub takes over the work of making the room vibrate. 
  
 Which brings up a good question.................how many of you are running subs out of your vintage systems?   I used to think you had to have some kind of RCA adapter but literally hooking the sub up with speaker wires make it simple and very effective.    And the sound...........rumble...............and depth to the sound.............man, even my wife approved watching a movie the other night.


----------



## AppleheadMay

pudu said:


> I use psb bookshelf speakers with my 980 in my study all day long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info, nice to hear that some small new speakers can sound fine with those amps as well.
 I ordered the vintage darkwood pioneers with dark red baffle, has a nice vintage look and I found them new in an online store at a little more than half MSRP.
 They probably sound very different from the PSB speakers as they have a silk dome tweeter where the PSB have a titanium tweeter.
 The silk dome tweeter appealed to me as I have very fond memories of a pair of Grundig Fine Arts floorstanding speakers where the highs really appealed to me at that time. Not saying silk is better though, just a good times time memory.
 Pics of both:





  
  
Maybe later on I can get into larger vintage speakers. I always loved the Infinity Kappa series, former as well as later series.
Pics of both:
  







  
  
  


oregonian said:


> I was fortunate to find a pair of Polk Audio M5JR "bookshelf" (tho they are a bit taller than your usual bookshelf) that I run in my family room TV/audio system fed by a Pioneer SX-1050 (120 wpc) - I think the key is to add a sub to any of these systems.  I have an Energy 8" sub feeding off the "C" speaker tabs and in combination with the Polk's it makes for an incredible setup.  The Polks alone have great sound and quite capable bass (6" driver and a 6" passive reflector or whatever you call them) but adding the sub was the best thing I did, for both audio and movies.  It would seem they are overmatched with that monster receiver but really, at least in my application, they won't ever be overdriven and the sub takes over the work of making the room vibrate.
> 
> Which brings up a good question.................how many of you are running subs out of your vintage systems?   I used to think you had to have some kind of RCA adapter but literally hooking the sub up with speaker wires make it simple and very effective.    And the sound...........rumble...............and depth to the sound.............man, even my wife approved watching a movie the other night.


 
  
 Yep, about twice the height of my Pioneers I see, but true vintage. Indeed, the double 6" cones will produce much more bass than mine of course. Nice!
 I agree on adding a sub to small speakers but that's not an option for me now. For now, until I renovate my home office (wooden floor, built-in closets with hifi shelves that flow over in a nice dark wooden L-shaped desk, all made to measure) and rearrange the living room (and have a hifi rack made to measure for both my main speaker system and home cinema) which already has a Home cinema system, my main system (Marantz PM11-S3 with B&W PM1 bookshelves with PV1D Sub) as well as my computer audio (Bose Companion 5 which also has a sub) and vintage system (Sansui 9090 + Aiwa AX-7600 with Pioneer A4SPT-VP) plus headfi gear is all located in my home office. Phew, long sentence! 
  
 The plan is to move the Main Marantz system to the living room and replace the PM1+sub by B&W 804 D3. Then I will have the PV1D left over to add to the vintage system. 
 So for now, two subs in my office and 1 in the living room for cinema is enough, I don't want a third in my office.
 And if I get large vintage speakers later on I will only need one sub in my office (Bose computer speakers) and have to sell off the second anyway, else I'll need to sell 2. 
 I'm a fan of adding a sub to bookshelves though but I prefer my floorstanders without one.
  
 PM1- pic:

  
  
 Thanks for your feedback and tips both!


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Thanks for the info, nice to hear that some small new speakers can sound fine with those amps as well.
> I ordered the vintage darkwood pioneers with dark red baffle, has a nice vintage look and I found them new in an online store at a little more than half MSRP.
> They probably sound very different from the PSB speakers as they have a silk dome tweeter where the PSB have a titanium tweeter.
> The silk dome tweeter appealed to me as I have very fond memories of a pair of Grundig Fine Arts floorstanding speakers where the highs really appealed to me at that time. Not saying silk is better though, just a good times time memory.
> ...



Those Pioneers look very cool. One thing to remember, the 9090 is huge. Make provisions for that. Its almost 2 feet wide


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Those Pioneers look very cool. One thing to remember, the 9090 is huge. Make provisions for that. Its almost 2 feet wide


 
  
 I know, and I really don't have a decent place to put it right now so it'll be just hanging around my home office until I find the courage to have it renovated.
 The thing is I hate having the carpenters around every day for a few weeks and then the painter for another month or so. 
 I'll need to empty half of my house and they come early in the mornin'. I might be out of bed early but I'm not awake early.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> I know, and I really don't have a decent place to put it right now so it'll be just hanging around my home office until I find the courage to have it renovated.
> The thing is I hate having the carpenters around every day for a few weeks and then the painter for another month or so.
> I'll need to empty half of my house and they come early in the mornin'. I might be out of bed early but I'm not awake early. :tongue_smile:



I bought a wireform rack for like 30 bucks, and cut it to the height I wanted. It looks pretty good and is very solid with the weight of the components. It also has leveling feet, which came in handy for my turntable.


----------



## SirMarc




----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> I bought a wireform rack for like 30 bucks, and cut it to the height I wanted. It looks pretty good and is very solid with the weight of the components. It also has leveling feet, which came in handy for my turntable.


 
  
 Thanks for the tip. I dohave a bookshelf where I can put it but with the new amps and speakers it'll look a bit like a mess here. I'll have to remodel my home office at some time anyway. Just hate the work and hassle that comes with it.


----------



## Skylab

I decided to finally admit I just don't play cassettes much, and I play reel to reel tapes all the time, so I have now worked it so that I have all my man-cave decks hooked up all the time (I have a tape deck switcher which is under the Tascam).


----------



## SirMarc

Looking good man! My man cave is a mess, because no one comes in here but me. Which means nobody makes me clean it lol. Where's the turntable?


----------



## Skylab

sirmarc said:


> Looking good man! My man cave is a mess, because no one comes in here but me. Which means nobody makes me clean it lol. Where's the turntable?




Thanks man. The turntable is hard to see - it's just above and behind the Tascam (the tape decks that's on the floor). 

I have to keep things neat and clean at all times. Beyond that and I can do what I want within reason.


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Thanks man. The turntable is hard to see - it's just above and behind the Tascam (the tape decks that's on the floor).
> 
> I have to keep things neat and clean at all times. Beyond that and I can do what I want within reason.



I really should clean-up in here lol. I have to be neat around the house, but the wife doesn't really care about the man cave since she never comes in here. She only cares when I bring someone in here lol


----------



## SpeakerBox

So did you liquidate all the cassette decks - Skylab?


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> I decided to finally admit I just don't play cassettes much, and I play reel to reel tapes all the time, so I have now worked it so that I have all my man-cave decks hooked up all the time (I have a tape deck switcher which is under the Tascam).


 
  
 That's what heaven must look like ... pure beauty, congrats man!
 The SX-1980 looks gigantic I must say. And what speakers are those?
  
 I'll know more about my future plans when I get my 9090 but I'm seriously thinking about giving up on my plans to replace my small B&W PM1s with B&W 804 D3 floorstanders which, by the way are an excellent match for my Marantz PM-11S3, I auditioned them with that amp a few weeks ago.
 I might just sell my newer gear and go full vintage with a 200W+ monster receiver (probably a 1980 then) and a couple of srious vintage speakers.
 I have a bad case of nostalgia when it comes to Infinity Kappas (either '93 series or '87 series) but there might be better. I hear and read good things about big Diatones and they probably beat the Infinitys by a large margin.
  
 First things first though, have a carpenter make furniture to measure in my man cave which provides me with a large desk and built-in closets with space for hifi equipment and then floorstanders. For now it's my 2 pairs of bookshelves. The problem is I have been postponing the remodelling for a few years already because I hate all the worries it causes me and the contractors in my house.


----------



## Skylab

speakerbox said:


> So did you liquidate all the cassette decks - Skylab?




Sold the CT-F1000, yes. It needed the idler tire replaced. I have a working CT-F-950 in the basement rig. 




appleheadmay said:


> That's what heaven must look like ... pure beauty, congrats man!
> The SX-1980 looks gigantic I must say. And what speakers are those?




Thanks! It is pretty heavenly 

The speakers are Pioneer DSS-9. A truly wonderful speaker. Kind of in between vintage and modern - 1982. 

And yeah, the SX-1980 is as big as it looks


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> The speakers are Pioneer DSS-9. A truly wonderful speaker. Kind of in between vintage and modern - 1982.
> 
> And yeah, the SX-1980 is as big as it looks


 
  
 I remember you once said you liked the Infinity Kappas as well in another thread I started a few years ago I think. 
 Was that about the looks or sound? I wonder if I should keep looking out for Kappas or not.


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> I remember you once said you liked the Infinity Kappas as well in another thread I started a few years ago I think.
> Was that about the looks or sound? I wonder if I should keep looking out for Kappas or not.




Oh it was definitely about the sound! The Kappas are nice enough looking but nothing exotic. They sound great though. The EMIT tweeter is still one o ft he best sounding tweeters ever made IMO. I still have my Kappa 6's. Next weekend's project is to set them back up in the basement and give the B&W DM-16's a rest.


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Oh it was definitely about the sound! The Kappas are nice enough looking but nothing exotic. They sound great though. The EMIT tweeter is still one o ft he best sounding tweeters ever made IMO. I still have my Kappa 6's. Next weekend's project is to set them back up in the basement and give the B&W DM-16's a rest.



I have a pair of 5 kappa bookshelves that sound awesome. Surprising bass for such a small woofer...


----------



## Skylab

Yup, the Kappa 5 is a great little speaker. My brother has a pair he uses with a Pioneer SX-980, and the two sound absolutely phenomenal together.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Oh it was definitely about the sound! The Kappas are nice enough looking but nothing exotic. They sound great though. The EMIT tweeter is still one o ft he best sounding tweeters ever made IMO. I still have my Kappa 6's. Next weekend's project is to set them back up in the basement and give the B&W DM-16's a rest.


 
  
  
 Thanks, nice to know. Might try to find me back a long lost love. 
 IMO the 6 and 7 were the nicest looking ones, I preferred them to the taller but flatter 8 and 9.
 I also preferred the aesthetics of the '87 series to the '93 series.
 But I heard (when they were new) and liked the sound both series though.


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Yup, the Kappa 5 is a great little speaker. My brother has a pair he uses with a Pioneer SX-980, and the two sound absolutely phenomenal together.



I used to have the metal stands for them, but can't for the life of me remember what I did with them. It's shame, because they'd sound way better with the Kenwood kr-7600 than my Dahlquists while I'm waiting to get my 9090 back


----------



## Oregonian

Speaking of speakers....................anyone else running Cerwin Vegas?  I had a roommate about 30 years ago that had a pair in our townhouse and absolutely loved them back then.  Always knew I'd get a pair eventually..............found this pair of DX-3's on craigslist for $40.  Needed refoamed but worth it.................very efficient and sound great.  Alternate these and a pair of Klipsch 3.2's in the main Spec setup.


----------



## AppleheadMay

oregonian said:


> Speaking of speakers....................anyone else running Cerwin Vegas?  I had a roommate about 30 years ago that had a pair in our townhouse and absolutely loved them back then.  Always knew I'd get a pair eventually..............found this pair of DX-3's on craigslist for $40.  Needed refoamed but worth it.................very efficient and sound great.  Alternate these and a pair of Klipsch 3.2's in the main Spec setup.


 
  
  
 A lust for the eye as well Oregonian!
  
  
 Does anyone have an opinion on Diatone VS Infinity by any chance?
  
 EDIT: I know, I know, AudioKarma. It's just I really enjoy this thread.


----------



## Skylab

I would actually love to own a pair of Cerwin Vegas. I have fond memories of a buddy of mine's C-W's back in the 80's. I looked for a pair locally for a while but never found a decent pair and eventually stopped looking.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yesss! I am now the proud owner of a pair of Infinity Kappa 7A in Oak color! Just the ones I wanted.
I will have tehm in a few weeks, need to go pick them up in Germany myself.


----------



## headphones1999

appleheadmay said:


> Yesss! I am now the proud owner of a pair of Infinity Kappa 7A in Oak color! Just de ones I wanted.
> I will have tehm in a few weeks, need to go pick them up in Germany myself.


 
 you are from England and you go pick them up from Germany?


----------



## buson160man

oregonian said:


> Speaking of speakers....................anyone else running Cerwin Vegas?  I had a roommate about 30 years ago that had a pair in our townhouse and absolutely loved them back then.  Always knew I'd get a pair eventually..............found this pair of DX-3's on craigslist for $40.  Needed refoamed but worth it.................very efficient and sound great.  Alternate these and a pair of Klipsch 3.2's in the main Spec setup.


 
  Purdy looking stack .


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Yesss! I am now the proud owner of a pair of Infinity Kappa 7A in Oak color! Just de ones I wanted.
> I will have tehm in a few weeks, need to go pick them up in Germany myself.




Awesome. You will love them I'm sure.


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> you are from England and you go pick them up from Germany?


 
 No, I'm from mainland Europe. It's a 500km drive though, one way.
 But I found a friend who will go in my place to pick them up. 
  


skylab said:


> Awesome. You will love them I'm sure.


 
 Thanks!
 I called the seller this morning, a vintage HiFi shop of whom I read good things on a German forum.
 As far as I know they are in really condition cosmetically with manual and original shipping boxes.
 The necessary work on the drivers has been done as far as I could understand him (he wasn't too proficient in English and my German is a bit rusty) but probably no caps replaced in the crossovers yet.
 I will have the Kappas and Sansui checked when I have the Aiwa revised and recapped in the Dutch shop.
  
 Been so long since I saw and heard a pair of these babies for real. Glad I found the 7, I like the looks better than the tall 8 or 9.
 Are these 1987 models better sounding than the 1993 models you think? I do like the '87 looks better.
 Larger woofers as well.


----------



## SX3900

Skylab,
 Glad your enjoying your SX-3900 receiver. Had mine now for 36 years. First start with the SX-3800, which I still have, been using the SX-3800 as a headphone amp.
 These receivers can really drive the headphones all the way thru DT-880 (600 ohms), including vary large speakers 
  
 Also have the Pioneer PL-200 turntable since new along with Pioneer ARIA 70 speakers. I bet the pioneer community does not know the history of the early Pioneer speakers?
  
 Question for all you guys: What is this term Vintage?.
 Do I consider my Pioneer stereo system vintage? No, state of the art? Yes. All my equipment is still in mint condition. Use the Pioneer receivers everyday.  Even use the SX-3900 as my DJ amp during my high school and college years.
 Just my first post.
 Glad everybody loves their Silver faced receivers. 
 Long Live Pioneer
 SX-3900


----------



## SpeakerBox

Use both my SX1250 and SX750 every day.  Silver faced bliss!


----------



## SX3900

The SX-3900 is driving a pair of some good old fashion Radio Shack Mach Ones those are with the 15" woofers and a pair of Pioneer Aria 70 with 12" woofers. Both are from the '79 era.. The SX-3800 is drive four Advent very very rare New Vision 250 bookshelf speakers plus a rare Polk LF-14 big cabinet subwoofer going from the pre-amp to sub & sub to amp connections to take advantage of the subwoofer built-in hi-pass and low pass filters.  Like many of the head-fiers. I have many stereo systems located throughout the house.


----------



## blur510

Hello, I am hoping someone can help me,  I have a Pioneer SX 1010 and I wondering if I can use it as a preamp. (I read somewhere that it can be used as a preamp) If I can can someone tell me how to use it as a pre amp.  Thanks


----------



## Hutnicks

blur510 said:


> Hello, I am hoping someone can help me,  I have a Pioneer SX 1010 and I wondering if I can use it as a preamp. (I read somewhere that it can be used as a preamp) If I can can someone tell me how to use it as a pre amp.  Thanks


 

 If memory serves. Over on the left side rear under the antenna bar there are 4 RCA jacks. Two metal pins oriented horizontally bridge the RCA Jacks in an upper and lower pair. Removing those metal U pins separates the receiver into amp and pre amp. It should be marked. Pull out the pins (store them in a safe place) and you can connect the preamp section via RCA cable to an  amp.


----------



## blur510

thanks that is what I was thinking. but wasn't sure since I have never had a need to remove it and use it as a preamp.  I had the receiver restored about 2 years ago and it works great. Although from time to time i hear weird noises coming out of my speakers (when playing music) sometimes the bass would be too loud, sometimes the bass would be absent (same song) sometimes i hear the speaker break up a little I am not sure if I want to get it fixed or just get a new amp. Since the problem is hard to recreate it's hard for me to show the repair people at the stereo repair place.   I just purchased a pair of B&W 805d3 and I am a little worried about my receiver.


----------



## Hutnicks

blur510 said:


> thanks that is what I was thinking. but wasn't sure since I have never had a need to remove it and use it as a preamp.  I had the receiver restored about 2 years ago and it works great. Although from time to time i hear weird noises coming out of my speakers (when playing music) sometimes the bass would be too loud, sometimes the bass would be absent (same song) sometimes i hear the speaker break up a little I am not sure if I want to get it fixed or just get a new amp. Since the problem is hard to recreate it's hard for me to show the repair people at the stereo repair place.   I just purchased a pair of B&W 805d3 and I am a little worried about my receiver.


 

 If you search around a little you might find a factory manual on line somewhere. Back in the era some of them had some pretty useful troubleshooting guides.. A repair would probably be in order, or at least an estimate. Be a shame to damage the d3's with power flux or something.


----------



## AppleheadMay

blur510 said:


> thanks that is what I was thinking. but wasn't sure since I have never had a need to remove it and use it as a preamp.  I had the receiver restored about 2 years ago and it works great. Although from time to time i hear weird noises coming out of my speakers (when playing music) sometimes the bass would be too loud, sometimes the bass would be absent (same song) sometimes i hear the speaker break up a little I am not sure if I want to get it fixed or just get a new amp. Since the problem is hard to recreate it's hard for me to show the repair people at the stereo repair place.   I just purchased a pair of B&W 805d3 and I am a little worried about my receiver.


 
  


hutnicks said:


> If you search around a little you might find a factory manual on line somewhere. Back in the era some of them had some pretty useful troubleshooting guides.. A repair would probably be in order, or at least an estimate. Be a shame to damage the d3's with power flux or something.


 
  
  
 Here are the manuals. You will need to make an account to download them but it's free.
  
 http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sx-1010.shtml


----------



## buson160man

blur510 said:


> Hello, I am hoping someone can help me,  I have a Pioneer SX 1010 and I wondering if I can use it as a preamp. (I read somewhere that it can be used as a preamp) If I can can someone tell me how to use it as a pre amp.  Thanks


 
    Another thing about that metal jumper is that the signal form the preamp to the amp is going through that metal jumper which is definitely not the best conductor and signal carrier . I have replaced the jumper on mine with a proper interconnect and the receiver sounds way better . It is a very easy tweak and very rewarding once you hear the improvement which is very obvious . Another tweak is to replace the stock fuses with premium audiophile fuses ( hifi-tuning , furutech , isoclean , etcetera ) which gives you a much cleaner and more solid and resolved sound .


----------



## frahengeo

blur510 said:


> thanks that is what I was thinking. but wasn't sure since I have never had a need to remove it and use it as a preamp.  I had the receiver restored about 2 years ago and it works great. Although from time to time i hear weird noises coming out of my speakers (when playing music) sometimes the bass would be too loud, sometimes the bass would be absent (same song) sometimes i hear the speaker break up a little I am not sure if I want to get it fixed or just get a new amp. Since the problem is hard to recreate it's hard for me to show the repair people at the stereo repair place.   I just purchased a pair of B&W 805d3 and I am a little worried about my receiver.


 

 There is a good chance that all you need to do is clean the contacts on the switches, and pots.  If you are unsure of what to do, there is lots of information regarding this on Audiokarma.  Very easy to do.


----------



## blur510

hutnicks said:


> If you search around a little you might find a factory manual on line somewhere. Back in the era some of them had some pretty useful troubleshooting guides.. A repair would probably be in order, or at least an estimate. Be a shame to damage the d3's with power flux or something.


 
 Thanks AppleheadMay just posted a link that I will be downloading.  My d3's are coming soon, it had to be special ordered, and I am getting the rest of my equipment ready for its arrival. 
  


appleheadmay said:


> Here are the manuals. You will need to make an account to download them but it's free.
> 
> http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/sx-1010.shtml


 
 Thank you so much for the link I will get the manual ASAP.
  


buson160man said:


> Another thing about that metal jumper is that the signal form the preamp to the amp is going through that metal jumper which is definitely not the best conductor and signal carrier . I have replaced the jumper on mine with a proper interconnect and the receiver sounds way better . It is a very easy tweak and very rewarding once you hear the improvement which is very obvious . Another tweak is to replace the stock fuses with premium audiophile fuses ( hifi-tuning , furutech , isoclean , etcetera ) which gives you a much cleaner and more solid and resolved sound .


 
 Interconnect? as in use higher quality RCA cable and bridge them together with it? I will look into the fuses too. I will be downloading the manual and I will see which fuses to buy. Thanks
  


frahengeo said:


> There is a good chance that all you need to do is clean the contacts on the switches, and pots.  If you are unsure of what to do, there is lots of information regarding this on Audiokarma.  Very easy to do.


 
 Cool thanks I have read that Deoxit is usually all that is needed to clean the switches, but my confidence in myself doing a good job is not that great.  But I will give it a go. Thanks


----------



## Oregonian

buson160man said:


> Another thing about that metal jumper is that the signal form the preamp to the amp is going through that metal jumper which is definitely not the best conductor and signal carrier . I have replaced the jumper on mine with a proper interconnect and the receiver sounds way better . It is a very easy tweak and very rewarding once you hear the improvement which is very obvious . Another tweak is to replace the stock fuses with premium audiophile fuses ( hifi-tuning , furutech , isoclean , etcetera ) which gives you a much cleaner and more solid and resolved sound .


 

 Question - what kind of "proper interconnect" are you using?  I read elsewhere you can avoid using the jumpers by using an audio RCA cable instead of the jumpers but when I tried it on my SA-8800 the sound was very faint.  When I put the jumpers back in place the sound was back to normal. 
  
 That comment about fuses is very interesting as well!  I may have to try that - who would have thought fuses would improve sound?


----------



## Oregonian

Here's the link to the Audiokarma DeOxit guide -
  
 http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/


----------



## AppleheadMay

Sansui 9090 is in da house! It's a beauty!
  
 Looks very clean, switches and knobs are all very smooth, meters and lightshow working.
 Cabinet as fine as it can be considering this amp is 38 years old.
 If the inside is as clean as the connectors on the back it must be a marvel. Those things shine like a mirror!
 Sounds pretty good so far with FM radio and a wire antenna, no scratchy sound on volume and tone controls.
 Only tested with a pair of phones so far, speakers is for tomorrow.
  
 Seems like I bought it from a decent dealer. Will still go to the vintage audio restore shop in Holland though to see if anything else needs to be done. 
  
 Very happy with my purchase but that doesn't mean I won't be trying out an SX-1280 or SX-1980.
 The same shop should have a 1280 in the coming months and there is a chance on a 1980 as well. Wonder what the pirce will be though.
  
 Don't think I will be trying a Marantz 2385 though with the info I have now. Anyone in favor of the Marantz monster amps?
  
 Will receive my Infinity's Tuesday evening, a friend of mine is going to pick them up. Should be a killer combo! 
 Never thought these things could sound so good, should have kept all the old stuff I got from my father when I was a kid.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Sansui 9090 is in da house! It's a beauty!
> 
> Looks very clean, switches and knobs are all very smooth, meters and lightshow working.
> Cabinet as fine as it can be considering this amp is 38 years old.
> ...



Nice man! Hook up a good dac or Turntable up to it and let me know what you think with a good pair of cans. I'm jealous, mine is still out for service. With my Thorens turntable and hd650's it sounds ridiculously good...


----------



## roadcykler

oregonian said:


> Question - what kind of "proper interconnect" are you using?  I read elsewhere you can avoid using the jumpers by using an audio RCA cable instead of the jumpers but when I tried it on my SA-8800 the sound was very faint.  When I put the jumpers back in place the sound was back to normal.
> 
> That comment about fuses is very interesting as well!  I may have to try that - who would have thought fuses would improve sound?


 
  
 The people marketing them? Don't waste a ridiculous amount of money for a fuse that's not going to help because there's no way a fuse is going to make a measurable difference in the sound. What you perceive, is another story.


----------



## PhoenixG

roadcykler said:


> The people marketing them? Don't waste a ridiculous amount of money for a fuse that's not going to help because there's no way a fuse is going to make a measurable difference in the sound. What you perceive, is another story.


 
 Preach.
 Unless the fuse is in the output, it's not going to change anything that a good cleaning wouldn't.
 If the RCA interconects made it sound faint, there's a chance it was causing a small short in the signal path, so it's good you switched back.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Narrowed down the list after doing some more reading on the Marantz amps. Won't be looking for a Marantz as that might be a bit too warm.
 I love the 9090 and will keep it, I don't even think of upgrading to one of the higher G models.
 Reason: 2 phones out, pretty rare to find in vintage amps, a dream for comparing.
 And I will add a Pioneer anyway so in my eyes this will be the perfect team.
 Still keeping my little Aiwa as well, no use to sell it, it's just too good for what I paid for it.
  
 So it comes down to this: I can get an SX-1280 in a few months or I can wait for an SX-1980.
 It will be used for phones of course but also to drive the Kappa 7As and maybe a nice pair of Diatones later on (around 200W).
 Any advice on this choice for my final vintage amp?


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Nice man! Hook up a good dac or Turntable up to it and let me know what you think with a good pair of cans. I'm jealous, mine is still out for service. With my Thorens turntable and hd650's it sounds ridiculously good...


 
  
  
 I don't have a turntable.
 I never had many records, about 20 or so, when I was younger I recorded albums from my friends on cassettes.
 My father had about 100 records and a bunch of reels but I gave all that stuff away.
I am thinking of adding a turntable later on but I'm not in a hurry for that.
 So for now it will be FM and my Marantz Dacs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> I don't have a turntable.
> I never had many records, about 20 or so, when I was younger I recorded albums from my friends on cassettes.
> My father had about 100 records and a bunch of reels but I gave all that stuff away.
> I am thinking of adding a turntable later on but I'm not in a hurry for that.
> So for now it will be FM and my Marantz Dacs.


 
  
 I listen to mostly FM.  The tuner section in the 1250 is astonishingly good.  An so is my restored Kenwood KT-7550.
  
 Recently got a near mint Pioneer PL-518 to match up with the 1250.  Sounds great!
  
 Also got a totally restored Pioneer PL-516 with Ortofon 2m Red for my main system.  Like it very much!
  

  
 The 2M Red was added after the pictures.  Nice belt drive TT with excellent speed control and easy setup.  Love it!
  
 Edit: the updates include new dust cover, African Rosewood veneer, new low vibration feet, new belt, new RCA plugs, and a complete clean and lube.  I added the 2M Red and will be doing a recap just to be safe.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> I listen to mostly FM.  The tuner section in the 1250 is astonishingly good.  An so is my restored Kenwood KT-7550.
> 
> Recently got a near mint Pioneer PL-518 to match up with the 1250.  Sounds great!
> 
> ...



Looks good man!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Thanks SirMarc.  Very happy!


----------



## SirMarc

Have you ever considered an AT 440mla? For years I was a Blue Point Special guy, but when it came time for a new cart, my dealer recommended the AT. At first I was a bit snobbish, MM? No way. Anyway, after seeing one on Amazon for under 200 bucks I said what the hell. Long story short, I love this cart and have no regrets. Does it sound as good as my BPS? Who the hell remembers, but its at least close, for way less money. This is on a Thorens td145 by the way.
On a side note, looking at those pictures, I really need to break out the wood oil lol.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Never did consider the AT.  I had read quite a bit about successes using the Ortofon 2M Red on the 516 - so I went with it.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Never did consider the AT.  I had read quite a bit about successes using the Ortofon 2M Red on the 516 - so I went with it.



Cool. On AK most people run 440mla's on their Thorens tables. Now I see why. How do you like the red?


----------



## Skylab

SpeakerBox That TT looks awesome man, congrats!

AppleheadMay The 1280 is every bit as good sounding as the 1980. I had a restored 1280 and loved it. I freely admit I stepped up to the 1980 just because I wanted to. There really wasn't any real sonic benefit.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> @SpeakerBox That TT looks awesome man, congrats!
> 
> @AppleheadMay The 1280 is every bit as good sounding as the 1980. I had a restored 1280 and loved it. I freely admit I stepped up to the 1980 just because I wanted to. There really wasn't any real sonic benefit.


 
  
  
 Thanks Skylab. Will be looking out for one of both then.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> @SpeakerBox That TT looks awesome man, congrats!


 
  
 Thanks Skylab!


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Narrowed down the list after doing some more reading on the Marantz amps. Won't be looking for a Marantz as that might be a bit too warm.
> I love the 9090 and will keep it, I don't even think of upgrading to one of the higher G models.
> Reason: 2 phones out, pretty rare to find in vintage amps, a dream for comparing.
> And I will add a Pioneer anyway so in my eyes this will be the perfect team.
> ...


 
   I would also recommend that you should also consider the pioneer sx -1250 receiver . Consider that the sx-1250 has a reputation for being more reliable than either the sx-1280 or sx 1980 . You should  check out the my favorite receiver site on the net . It is interesting but according to the my favorite receiver site the power supply on the sx-1250 and the more powerful sx-1980 actually have the same 22,000 microfarad power supply capacitor rating . Which makes the sx1250 and its somewhat lower power rating the more over engineered receiver . Hence the more reliable just for the higher  capacity power supply for its' rated power. The sx-1280 has lower capacitance power  supply caps than the sx-1250 .
    Do check out the my favorite receiver website on the net there  are a lot of receivers listed on the site with valuable information about them . Another good site is the classic receiver website on the net there are a lot of receivers listed on this site as well actually there are more listed on this site . Good luck on your hunt for the best receiver .


----------



## SpeakerBox

Another interesting piece of info on the 1250 - it has roughly the same measured WPC output into 4 ohms as the 1280 at clipping.  Having worked on two of these, the build quality is amazing.  Literally built like a tank and assembled in a way that is very easy to work on.


----------



## frahengeo

I couldn't agree more regarding the SX-1250.  I have a 9090db, and the SX-1250, and wouldn't hesitate to let go of the Sansui before the Pioneer.


----------



## AppleheadMay

buson160man said:


> I would also recommend that you should also consider the pioneer sx -1250 receiver . Consider that the sx-1250 has a reputation for being more reliable than either the sx-1280 or sx 1980 . You should  check out the my favorite receiver site on the net . It is interesting but according to the my favorite receiver site the power supply on the sx-1250 and the more powerful sx-1980 actually have the same 22,000 microfarad power supply capacitor rating . Which makes the sx1250 and its somewhat lower power rating the more over engineered receiver . Hence the more reliable just for the higher  capacity power supply for its' rated power. The sx-1280 has lower capacitance power  supply caps than the sx-1250 .
> Do check out the my favorite receiver website on the net there  are a lot of receivers listed on the site with valuable information about them . Another good site is the classic receiver website on the net there are a lot of receivers listed on this site as well actually there are more listed on this site . Good luck on your hunt for the best receiver .


 
  


speakerbox said:


> Another interesting piece of info on the 1250 - it has roughly the same measured WPC output into 4 ohms as the 1280 at clipping.  Having worked on two of these, the build quality is amazing.  Literally built like a tank and assembled in a way that is very easy to work on.


 
  
Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciated.
 Indeed, I already read about the overbuilt SX-1250's power supply and the general better build quality and maintainability of the 50 series compared to the 80 series, except maybe for the SX-1980.
 The reasons I am leaning more towards the 1280 than the 1250 is the looks and more watts. You're really making it harder for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Am I right in thinking that if I want best of both worlds (watts, looks, power and build quality) I should actually get an SX-1980?
 We are talking about a whole different price class then.
  


frahengeo said:


> I couldn't agree more regarding the SX-1250.  I have a 9090db, and the SX-1250, and wouldn't hesitate to let go of the Sansui before the Pioneer.


 

 You like the sound of the Pioneer better?  
 I thought both brands were highly regarded for both SQ and quality components.
 I didn't take the DB though, to avoid the problematic Dolby board.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Damn, just found a really great SX-1980 in Europe, but it's 110V. I hate transformers.
 Have these things ever been made in 230V?
  
 Your guy doesn't actually have a 230V power supply for a 1980 that I could trade for a 110V power supply with added funds from my side @Skylab ?
  
  
  

  
 By the way, next to it is a Sharp Optonica fully automatic turntable, the excact same my father had ... and I used all the time


----------



## frahengeo

appleheadmay said:


> Indeed, I already read about the overbuilt SX-1250's power supply and the general better build quality and maintainability of the 50 series compared to the 80 series, except maybe for the SX-1980.
> The reasons I am leaning more towards the 1280 than the 1250 is the looks and more watts. You're really making it harder for me.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sansui and Pioneer are both respectable.  My 9090db is good, but does not compare to my SX-1250.  However, when comparing my Sansui 9000db and SX-1250, it is much harder to differentiate, but I still go to the Pioneer.  With that said, the SX-1250 has been recapped, the 9000db is all original.
  
 Have not heard a 9090, and I've read that there are differences in sound between db, and non-db.  Seems like more favor the non-db version.


----------



## SpeakerBox

frahengeo said:


> Sansui and Pioneer are both respectable.  My 9090db is good, but does not compare to my SX-1250.  However, when comparing my Sansui 9000db and SX-1250, it is much harder to differentiate, but I still go to the Pioneer.  With that said, the SX-1250 has been recapped, the 9000db is all original.
> 
> Have not heard a 9090, and I've read that there are differences in sound between db, and non-db.  Seems like more favor the non-db version.


 
  
 I have had many pieces of gear pass through my doors from Marantz, Sansui, Sherwood, Adcom, Fisher, Superscope, Harman Kardon, and others.  None have been able to match the sound of my recapped 1250 (or recapped 750 for that matter).
  
 The Sherwoods came very close though.


----------



## SirMarc

I haven't heard a 1980 or 1250, but I've heard some lower model Pioneers. I personally like the 9090 better. Just the right amount of warmth for me without sacrificing detail. Love the soundstage width and depth of my 9090 too. I'm also partial to the looks of the mid seventies pieces. Love the blue and green lights


----------



## BucketInABucket

Anyone have any experience with the Armstrong 62x-series gear? I have a 625/626 (not sure which as the seller just said it was an Armstrong receiver) and was wondering if anyone knows anything about it.


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Damn, just found a really great SX-1980 in Europe, but it's 110V. I hate transformers.
> Have these things ever been made in 230V?
> 
> Your guy doesn't actually have a 230V power supply for a 1980 that I could trade for a 110V power supply with added funds from my side @Skylab
> ?




He doesn't have any 1980's. And honestly if one were to be found, one would think it would be in Europe. Japan is 100V. That one sure does look nice though!!!


On another note, I get a weekly email flyer from these guys and they have a Sansui G-22000. I almost bought it. But since I didn't I thought I would post the link here:

http://www.tmraudio.com/product/xx-458


----------



## Silent One

Rear view shot!
 1978 Sansui G-22000


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Indeed, I already read about the overbuilt SX-1250's power supply and the general better build quality and maintainability of the 50 series compared to the 80 series, except maybe for the SX-1980.
> The reasons I am leaning more towards the 1280 than the 1250 is the looks and more watts. You're really making it harder for me.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am sorry but my advice was well intended and not to confuse you. I do remember the 9090 and hearing it back then but that was a long time ago .It was a pretty looking unit . I use a concept  16.5 which does sound very good with my headphones  But you can forget the concept it was made for the pacific stereo chain in the u.s. so you will not find any with the European voltage rating ..Sometimes power ratings can be misleading . For instance the pioneers are not particularly tight on the bottom end . The higher line concept units are much tighter and more powerful sounding than the pioneers of the time . So power is not the end all reason to buy something .


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> He doesn't have any 1980's. And honestly if one were to be found, one would think it would be in Europe. Japan is 100V. That one sure does look nice though!!!


 
  
 Yeah, those custom feet do look nice.
  


buson160man said:


> I am sorry but my advice was well intended and not to confuse you. I do remember the 9090 and hearing it back then but that was a long time ago .It was a pretty looking unit . I use a concept  16.5 which does sound very good with my headphones  But you can forget the concept it was made for the pacific stereo chain in the u.s. so you will not find any with the European voltage rating ..Sometimes power ratings can be misleading . For instance the pioneers are not particularly tight on the bottom end . The higher line concept units are much tighter and more powerful sounding than the pioneers of the time . So power is not the end all reason to buy something .


 
  
  I know and your advice is really appreciated, it put the 1250 back on my radar again.
 The "making it harder" was a joke, that's why I put the wink after it.  
  
 Choices, choices ... first world problems!


----------



## BucketInABucket

Vintage Armstrong 626 paired with modern Wharfedale 220s!


----------



## richard51

bucketinabucket said:


> Vintage Armstrong 626 paired with modern Wharfedale 220s!


 

 thet seems ravishing pairing...congratulations....


----------



## PhoenixG

silent one said:


> Rear view shot!
> 1978 Sansui G-22000


 
 I have mine in the bolted together configuration (fore and aft) and it seems so much less imposing haha.


----------



## headphones1999

skylab said:


> He doesn't have any 1980's. And honestly if one were to be found, one would think it would be in Europe. Japan is 100V. That one sure does look nice though!!!
> 
> 
> On another note, I get a weekly email flyer from these guys and they have a Sansui G-22000. I almost bought it. But since I didn't I thought I would post the link here:
> ...


 
 3500$?


----------



## Hutnicks

headphones1999 said:


> 3500$?


 

 The dietys of Rome alone know what a Krell KSA50 is worth these days
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 @Silentone.  Was wondering when you were going to post up pics of "The Behemoth"  Would have been splendid if you had had a pair of Porta Pro's hooked up to the outs


----------



## Coolzo

So this isn't exactly a vintage _amplifier, _but it is vintage, and it's awesome, sooo...

  
 B&W 801 Series 80


----------



## buson160man

coolzo said:


> So this isn't exactly a vintage _amplifier, _but it is vintage, and it's awesome, sooo...
> 
> 
> B&W 801 Series 80


 
  Those were big speakers . A friend of mine use to have a pair of those .


----------



## AppleheadMay

coolzo said:


> So this isn't exactly a vintage _amplifier, _but it is vintage, and it's awesome, sooo...
> 
> 
> B&W 801 Series 80


 
  
 What's a vintage amp without a vintage speaker ...


----------



## AppleheadMay

@SpeakerBox@SirMarc@Skylab@buson160man@frahengeo
  
 Thanks to all of you for the info on the Sansui and Pioneer amps.
  
 I'm going to heed your advice concerning the Pioneers and shoot for the SX-1250.
 Built like a tank, overbuilt power supply, easy to service and no unobtanium parts like the 80 series.
 Added benefit is the lower price.
 And togeteher with my Sansui 9090 it will give me a nice assortment of some of the best receivers from the best
 brands I believe.
 I know there are other options and choices but I think this can be considered a dreamteam.
  
 After that I will be looking for a pair of Diatones, probably DS-3000 or DS-V3000 in addition to the Kappas.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Do need a little advice.
  
 I have the option of going for a Pioneer SA-9500ii or an A-717 for roughly the same price. Should I get either or buy something else e.g. Kenwood or Yamaha or something?


----------



## AppleheadMay

A question about turntables.
  
 I just came across this:
  


> Thorens TD 160 B MKll with:
> 
> SME arm, Serie lll S with Fuid damper FD lllS
> Denon element DL-304, barely used, needle perfect
> ...


 
  
 Is this one vintage? Sounds good at 900€?
  
  
 On the other hand I have since long been coinsidering the Marantz TT-15S1 which is a new turntable but has been out for quite a long time now. It is made by ClearAudio and at it's price (about 1600€ I can get it for new) considered a really high value for money. It includes a clearaudio tonarm and a really good Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood Ebony moving-magnet (MM) cartridge as well.
  


> *TT-15S1 *Premium TurnTable
> 
> 
> Analogue purists behold: the TT-15S1 Premium Range turntable is here. It has a solid acrylic resin chassis in design style of the Premium Range, a 3 cm-thick heavy acrylic platter with a black felt cover, solid aluminium feet, and state-of-the-art ceramic bearings, so it almost eliminates chassis resonance. The Marantz exclusive MM-system in a stylish ebony body is directly xed to the high-grade audio intercon- nector reducing signal resistance to a minimum. Its anodised arm has been optimised to partner the unit perfectly. The motor is dampened and isolated from the chassis to prevent vibration influence. And a ‘clever clamp’ system ensures excellent disc contact with platter. The magnetic anti-skating system is contact-free to eliminate unwanted stylus stresses, and the continuous silicon belt guarantees rotational accuracy. The TT-15S1 represents the ultimate addition to any audio- phile’s home audio system.
> ...


----------



## Oregonian

bucketinabucket said:


> Do need a little advice.
> 
> I have the option of going for a Pioneer SA-9500ii or an A-717 for roughly the same price. Should I get either or buy something else e.g. Kenwood or Yamaha or something?




The SA-9500 is an excellent, high power integrated, one of Pioneers best. I'd go for it.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Maybe another interesting turntable?
  
 http://www.hifi.nl/tweedehands/10007122/Acoustic-Research-The-Turntable-incl-Linn-arm-en-Ortofon-MC30-Super.html


----------



## BucketInABucket

oregonian said:


> The SA-9500 is an excellent, high power integrated, one of Pioneers best. I'd go for it.


 
 What would a fair price be for one of those?


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Do need a little advice.
> 
> I have the option of going for a Pioneer SA-9500ii or an A-717 for roughly the same price. Should I get either or buy something else e.g. Kenwood or Yamaha or something?


 
 I once talked with a guy that got very serious vintage collection and his fav amp is an upgraded 717, i think u should read some reviews about those two and decide which one will probably be the best.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> A question about turntables.
> 
> I just came across this:
> 
> ...



If you like Thorens turntables, I'd look for a td 145. It's the same as a td 160, but it's semi-automatic, which means the tone arm will lift at the end of the side. It's nice to not have to jump up when the side is finished, or fall asleep and get the crap scared out of you by your expensive cart riding the run out groove and scraping the label


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> If you like Thorens turntables, I'd look for a td 145. It's the same as a td 160, but it's semi-automatic, which means the tone arm will lift at the end of the side. It's nice to not have to jump up when the side is finished, or fall asleep and get the crap scared out of you by your expensive cart riding the run out groove and scraping the label


 
  
 Thanks for the tip SirMarc, semi automatic sounds like a great idea to me all the sudden!
  
 I don't know if I like Thorens, I don't know much about turntables so recommendations are welcome.
  
 For now the Marantz TT-15 S1 sounds great to me but I am also in love with an 80s Optonica since my father had that one and I have fond memories of it.
 Here’s a link to one for sale: http://www.ukaudiomart.com/details/649259168-optonica-rp7100h/
 What do you think?


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> I once talked with a guy that got very serious vintage collection and his fav amp is an upgraded 717, i think u should read some reviews about those two and decide which one will probably be the best.


 
 They both sound like serious pieces of kit in all honesty. The 717 has an isolated power supply but the 9500ii is dual mono and both have their merits. Both have designs that makes sense and both seem to have a really impressive sound. Power isn't much of a concern as I'm using it in a near-field setup at the moment though it would be nice to have extra on tap in case I ever decide to switch setups.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Anyone knows what this is or where to find info and specs about it?
 The brand should be Radione.
 It's a preamp, amp and tuner.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Thanks for the tip SirMarc, semi automatic sounds like a great idea to me all the sudden!
> 
> I don't know if I like Thorens, I don't know much about turntables so recommendations are welcome.
> 
> ...



My father bought my td 145 in the mid seventies and gave it to me in the early eighties, it's never had an issue (knock on wood) other than a ground issue that I caused when I soldered new higher quality rca cables in. It's a pretty simple cicuit, so not much to break. The Optonica looks like it could be a nightmare to get repaired if something goes wrong. Also, my turntable guy, who sells megabuck turntables, told me I'd have to spend a couple grand to beat the old Thorens. I may be a little biased lol


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> They both sound like serious pieces of kit in all honesty. The 717 has an isolated power supply but the 9500ii is dual mono and both have their merits. Both have designs that makes sense and both seem to have a really impressive sound. Power isn't much of a concern as I'm using it in a near-field setup at the moment though it would be nice to have extra on tap in case I ever decide to switch setups.


 
 The 717 is duel mono as far as i know...
  
 they both have enough power for a lot of speakers, the question is what amp will control your speaker drivers the best


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> The 717 is duel mono as far as i know...
> 
> they both have enough power for a lot of speakers, the question is what amp will control your speaker drivers the best



Also the 717 is pretty much minty-looking and the 9500ii is decent but not the best condition.

Ahh it's a hard hard choice indeed...


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> @SpeakerBox@SirMarc@Skylab@buson160man@frahengeo
> 
> Thanks to all of you for the info on the Sansui and Pioneer amps.
> 
> I'm going to heed your advice concerning the Pioneers and shoot for the SX-1250.


 
  
 We are here to help.


----------



## Mechans1

I would buy the 717 because condition in the older pieces is very important.  This doesn't mean that the caps are in great shape etc. but I have found that the cosmetics do correspond with a better outcome. It is an obvious statement about how the piece was cared for.  That said if you can try to audition the two to make sure that you really  like the sound the sound quality.
 And yes there is  always better gear from .a variety of  other manufacturers, Pioneer has a excellent reputation, I like Sansui Niko and Kenwood among the manufacturers making audio equipment in that era. I am in exile at the moment and am using a Fisher tube receiver circa 1962-4.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Out of curiosity, what would be a fair price for a 717 in good condition?


----------



## SirMarc

mechans1 said:


> I would buy the 717 because condition in the older pieces is very important.  This doesn't mean that the caps are in great shape etc. but I have found that the cosmetics do correspond with a better outcome. It is an obvious statement about how the piece was cared for.  That said if you can try to audition the two to make sure that you really  like the sound the sound quality.
> And yes there is  always better gear from .a variety of  other manufacturers, Pioneer has a excellent reputation, I like Sansui Niko and Kenwood among the manufacturers making audio equipment in that era. I am in exile at the moment and am using a Fisher tube receiver circa 1962-4.



Yeah, us Sansui guys are in the minority these days. Listening to a Kenwood kr-7600 as we speak, not as nice sounding as my 9090, but a very nice sounding piece all the same. That being said, I can't wait to get the 9090 back from being serviced...


----------



## Neogeo333

After spending some time with the Sony TA N902, Kenwood L A1 and Marantz PM15 I have decided to keep the Marantz and sell the other two.  As much I want to keep them all space is at a premium.  
  
 The Sony has been recently given a refurbishment, from what I could see in the invoice it had the bias fix?  I can't read Japanese.  But 50,000.00 yen in service for this amp is like a complete refurbishment.  If anyone can translate Japanese I would thank you.  The sound of the Sony is foward, you will hear the sound like in the second or third row.  Great attack and dynamics.   A little on the bright side of neutral.  Great amp with lots of life left.  
  
 Kenwood LA1 is what some calls a hidden Accuphase.   No secret since it was made in the same factory as Accuphase.   The last great integrated from Kenwood.  More laid back sound compared to the Sony.  Warmer sound.  Great mids but not as dynamic  or fast as the Sony.   One fault it has is only the Line 1 rca connection is a bit loose.  It need some pressure to push it sideways to work.  I used a pencil to push in between the R L rca of line 1 to work.  All other inputs work as normal.  
  
 Marantz PM15 integrated is a whole different monster from these two.  I guess this is what the magic of class a does.  It's first 20 to 30 watts are class a and my 95db speakers need only 1 or 2 to sing.  The sound is more romantic on the warm side of neutral.  It has the very liquid mids from the Kenwood and the dynamics and pace of the Sony. Best of both worlds.  Built like a tank.  Almost as good as a Luxman M-07.


----------



## BucketInABucket

So, I ended up not springing on the A717 and instead buying a few other things...
  
 KEF Model 104aBs
  


Armstrong 626
NAD 7020
Harman Kardon HK930
Tandberg 2025


----------



## headphones1999

neogeo333 said:


> After spending some time with the Sony TA N902, Kenwood L A1 and Marantz PM15 I have decided to keep the Marantz and sell the other two.  As much I want to keep them all space is at a premium.
> 
> The Sony has been recently given a refurbishment, from what I could see in the invoice it had the bias fix?  I can't read Japanese.  But 50,000.00 yen in service for this amp is like a complete refurbishment.  If anyone can translate Japanese I would thank you.  The sound of the Sony is foward, you will hear the sound like in the second or third row.  Great attack and dynamics.   A little on the bright side of neutral.  Great amp with lots of life left.
> 
> ...


 
 DAMN what an equipment you have there O_O probably each piece worth 3000$+ now
 where is the marantz pics??


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> So, I ended up not springing on the A717 and instead buying a few other things...
> 
> KEF Model 104aBs
> 
> ...


 
 nice "near field" system lol 
 have fun with your new stuff mate!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 this tenberg looks awesome, let us know which is your fav one.
  
 btw why u didnt went on the 717?


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> nice "near field" system lol
> have fun with your new stuff mate!
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Not enough space for a proper setup unfortunately so it's towering over my head at the moment 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am; its a very sweet sound out of the KEFs. The Tandberg and HK are pretty tied at the moment, only time and an eventual full servicing job will tell. Ironically they were also the same price minus the shipping costs of the Tandberg. I'll also have to reservice the Armstrong as the right channel is a few dBs lower than the left and I might as well do the whole thing while I'm at it.
  
 I thought that the price of the A717 was too high and I could've gotten more value for money if I didn't jump on it.


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Not enough space for a proper setup unfortunately so it's towering over my head at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 and im sad that i dont have bigger sized room for my speakers lol
 i hope u do have some space for them, those speakers need place to breath.
  
 wait all those amps didnt cost as the 717 costed?


----------



## BucketInABucket

They do sound pretty decent just like this but I need a pair of stands, to rearrange my furniture and all that jazz..
  
 Nah, all of them combined did cost more but the HK and Tandberg were about the cost of the A717...


----------



## headphones1999

good luck 
  
 well I think u did mistake but on the other hand i have no idea what those amps u got worth...
 i wonder though how is this TANDBERG sound, because i know about the TANDBERG TR-2080 which is a beast


----------



## Silent One

phoenixg said:


> I have mine in the bolted together configuration (fore and aft) and it seems so much less imposing haha.


 
 Configs: I go with both just about 50% of the time. Where I _attempt_ to place the unit matters hugely 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 How are you getting along with your Big 'G'? Ultimately, in the future I'd like to have my Sansui completely redone, 
 kit AND kaboodle!


----------



## PhoenixG

It does have its quirks. For one, it occasionally has a channel imbalance that is caused by a dirty decoupler switch that is devilishly hard to clean. It can usually be cleared with some fussing but man is it annoying haha. As far as sound quality goes, there is no more upgraditis. This is the vaccine and the cure. At lease as far as amplification goes. I wouldn't say no to another top quality source or wireless dac. And I got a new rug. Audiophile grade of course. 




silent one said:


> Configs: I go with both just about 50% of the time. Where I _attempt_ to place the unit matters hugely :rolleyes:
> 
> How are you getting along with your Big 'G'? Ultimately, in the future I'd like to have my Sansui completely redone,
> kit AND kaboodle! :tongue_smile:


----------



## headphones1999

Finally found the best spot for my KLH xD
 puting them there really took them to another level, even my dad came and said "now they sound amazing!" (he still miss my beats pro lol)
  
 Im using the mirage sub with the KLH (the lows are really lacking because of my onkyo amp), dont get it wrong, Im not a basshead at all, mainly hearing jazz\funk with the KLH.


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> Im using the mirage sub with the KLH (because the lows are really lacking because of my onkyo amp), dont get it wrong, Im not a basshead at all, mainly hearing jazz\funk with the KLH.


 
 I probably need a sub too but wallet is lacking atm...


----------



## Dimon Hell

Hello there.
 Can show part of my little collection.
 Amps: Technics SU-3500 (sold), Luxman L505V, Grundig SV 80M, Leak Stereo 30, Leak Stereo 30 PLus, Dual CV 40, MEtro Sound ST-20.
 Turntable: Dual 731Q.
 Speakers: Grundig Box 650 (sold), Grundig Box 660b, ATL HD 308S (sold), Leak Sandwich 300, Pioneer CS E-700.


----------



## AppleheadMay

dimon hell said:


> Hello there.
> Can show part of my little collection.


 
  
  
 Oh man, beautiful! Really nice! 
  
  
  
 By the way: no one has a nice SX-1250 in 220V version for sale?
 Or if you ever come across one, please alert me!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

What do you guys think of BOSE 901(older version Not sure which series)?


----------



## buson160man

i luvmusic 2 said:


> What do you guys think of BOSE 901(older version Not sure which series)?


 

 Not a big fan of any Bose product , They were kind of a surround type product long before surround sound .


----------



## jnorris

i luvmusic 2 said:


> What do you guys think of BOSE 901(older version Not sure which series)?


 

 Junk.  Nine trashy 3 inch drivers, only one of which pointing at you, the rest bouncing off whatever wall furnishings you have.  Requires a crappy little equalizer to drive these 3 inch speakers to reproduce high and low frequencies they were never meant to cover.  Engineered for advertising copy, not ears.


----------



## Neogeo333

headphones1999 said:


> DAMN what an equipment you have there O_O probably each piece worth 3000$+ now
> where is the marantz pics??


 
 I forgot about the pic but it's here now.
 They really don't make them like they used to.  I wonder how much would the same integrated today cost with same build and sound quality.


----------



## SirMarc

neogeo333 said:


> I forgot about the pic but it's here now.
> They really don't make them like they used to.  I wonder how much would the same integrated today cost with same build and sound quality.



No headphone jack huh?


----------



## headphones1999

sirmarc said:


> No headphone jack huh?


 
 Hell who needs a headphones jack!
  
Neogeo333
 forget about costs and what you have is worth, you are done with amps for life, congratulations


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> I probably need a sub too but wallet is lacking atm...


 
 just make sure it will match the kef, for example the morel with the mirage sound like separate speakers.


----------



## AppleheadMay

i luvmusic 2 said:


> What do you guys think of BOSE 901(older version Not sure which series)?


 


buson160man said:


> Not a big fan of any Bose product , They were kind of a surround type product long before surround sound .


 


jnorris said:


> Junk.  Nine trashy 3 inch drivers, only one of which pointing at you, the rest bouncing off whatever wall furnishings you have.  Requires a crappy little equalizer to drive these 3 inch speakers to reproduce high and low frequencies they were never meant to cover.  Engineered for advertising copy, not ears.


 
  
 Indeed, a gimmick. Supposedly the best speakers Bose ever made but that doesn't mean much. I heard those when they were brand new but they didn't sound anything like the Infinitys, B&Ws, Fine Arts or anything I listened to in that era. Hell, I didn't want to switch my DIY made (by a school class) speakers with a 15" woofer and horn tweeter without crossovers. Get something with a nice big woofer instead.
  


neogeo333 said:


> I forgot about the pic but it's here now.
> They really don't make them like they used to.  I wonder how much would the same integrated today cost with same build and sound quality.


 
  
 Yep, always loved Marantz and always loved their Premium Range of that era. Looks gorgeous doesn't it? 
 That said, the new PM-11 range are monsters as well. Rated at 110W RMS at 8Ohm they easily delver over 165W measured. And those still have big transfos. At their price (MSRP 4k but can be found new for a nice price every now and then) Marantz still succeeds in delivering value for money.
 The no longer made PM-KI Pearl (not lite!) is a fine example, I had 2 of them. If you want the same quality of the more exotic high end companies you pay a multiple of that price.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Gents,
  
 Your advice on the Kenwood KR-9600 please.
 How does it compare soundwise to Pioneer and Sansui?
 Unobtanium parts?


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> Gents,
> 
> Your advice on the Kenwood KR-9600 please.
> How does it compare soundwise to Pioneer and Sansui?
> Unobtanium parts?


 
 I had one as my first monster receiver. It had a warmish sound, though to be fair I usually played it through JBL L100's which are notoriously warm. It uses power packs for outputs, so in the unlikely event you blow the output you will have to find another power pack or switch the output components to something else. Very good FM reception, tons (gobs and gobs) of power, and really beautiful to look at. It served me for about a decade before I sold it for a SX-1980. It'll sound warmer than the pioneer and just a tiny bit bloomy in comparison. It'll have a huge benefit from a tuneup as it seems like kenwoods drift out of spec fairly severely. The sansui sound... depends on the series, but they tend to be very sweet sounding. Accuracy will depend on the model haha.


----------



## AppleheadMay

phoenixg said:


> I had one as my first monster receiver. It had a warmish sound, though to be fair I usually played it through JBL L100's which are notoriously warm. It uses power packs for outputs, so in the unlikely event you blow the output you will have to find another power pack or switch the output components to something else. Very good FM reception, tons (gobs and gobs) of power, and really beautiful to look at. It served me for about a decade before I sold it for a SX-1980. It'll sound warmer than the pioneer and just a tiny bit bloomy in comparison. It'll have a huge benefit from a tuneup as it seems like kenwoods drift out of spec fairly severely. The sansui sound... depends on the series, but they tend to be very sweet sounding. Accuracy will depend on the model haha.


 
 Nice looking amp for sure thought I think it doesn't come in that wood case standard. Looks great!
 So, unubtanium parts though. And a bit bloomy. I'll keep digging for an SX-1250 then. 
 Thank you for the info Phoenix!


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Skylab  or anyone who knows a bit about Infinity speakers.
  
 What are your opinions on the *'87 Kappa Series* (I now have a pair of *Kappa 7A*) and the* '92 Renaissance 90*?
 I read a lot of good things about the Renaissance 90, some consider it better and surely easier to drive than the Kappa9.
 It dus have a smaller woofer but goes lower in the frequency rage, considered due to the Watkins woofer. 
I read it does go deeper but doesn't have an overwhelming thunder like th Kappas.
  
 I can get a pair of Kappa 90s now in oak color form company that refurbishes speakers and is specialized in Infinity.
 Price is 2K€ though.


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> Nice looking amp for sure thought I think it doesn't come in that wood case standard. Looks great!
> So, unubtanium parts though. And a bit bloomy. I'll keep digging for an SX-1250 then.
> Thank you for the info Phoenix!


 
 The wood case was an option when it was made that very few people chose, so good luck finding one with the case.  One sold with the case just last week on ebay. The prices sure have shot up haha.
 The power packs are pretty stable and I've never seen a report of them blowing at random without someone shorting them out. That being said, it looks like there is always someone parting one out so finding a fresh set shouldn't make you lose sleep.
 It's a great flagship unit and if one is for sale locally at a good price, I think you'd like it as much as an SX-1250 - it'll just be a touch warmer.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Hello Folks,
  
 I have been spending my time over in the portable Sources/DACs/ Amps/Headphones threads.  Finally I find this place.
  
 Love the portable stuff, but I have for years been a vintage guy.  Even since 70's Silver was new, not vintage.
  
 Here are a couple samples of my speaker/headphone systems.
  

  
 The above grew up in less than 10 years to be the below.
  

  
 Thank you,
  
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I have been spending my time over in the portable Sources/DACs/ Amps/Headphones threads.  Finally I find this place.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wonderful R2!


----------



## frahengeo

Nice Spec gear!  There is a local listing of Spec 1 & 2, and a set of Spec 1 & 4 in my area.  Too tempting, but I just don't have the space in my listening room.


----------



## Oregonian

r2muchstuff said:


> Hello Folks,
> 
> I have been spending my time over in the portable Sources/DACs/ Amps/Headphones threads.  Finally I find this place.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I spy some Pioneer Spec stuff.................the Spec 4 @ 150 wpc is a beast!  I have the Spec 2 @ 250 wpc and am a HUGE fan of Pioneer, owning 6 of their vintage amps. 
  
 I swapped speakers this weekend..............took out the Cerwin Vega DX-3's in favor of my Klipsch 3.2 walnuts................hard to imagine but the bass is stronger with the Klipsch speakers!


----------



## r2muchstuff

Thanks all,
 Yes - Second Photo (bottom to top) - Spec 4 & 1 with SA 9500II as headphone amp, TX 9500II Tuner, and SG 9500 EQ.
  
 1st Photo - (bottom to top) - SM 100 (1968-1971; 70 w/ch RMS @ 8 Ohm), SC100 Pre Amp, SA 900 as headphone amp (1970-1972; 50 w/ch RMS @ 8 Ohm), & TX 900
  
 I also have the Spec 2 and some more stuff 
  
 I hear it is not hoarding if your stuff is cool ...
  
 Oregonian, great looking rack.
  
 frahengeo, there is always room for Jello Pioneer (or any vintage gear).
  
 r2


----------



## buson160man

oregonian said:


> I spy some Pioneer Spec stuff.................the Spec 4 @ 150 wpc is a beast!  I have the Spec 2 @ 250 wpc and am a HUGE fan of Pioneer, owning 6 of their vintage amps.
> 
> I swapped speakers this weekend..............took out the Cerwin Vega DX-3's in favor of my Klipsch 3.2 walnuts................hard to imagine but the bass is stronger with the Klipsch speakers!


 

  Nice rack of vintage pioneer esoterics .


----------



## jnorris

oregonian said:


> I spy some Pioneer Spec stuff.................the Spec 4 @ 150 wpc is a beast!  I have the Spec 2 @ 250 wpc and am a HUGE fan of Pioneer, owning 6 of their vintage amps.
> 
> I swapped speakers this weekend..............took out the Cerwin Vega DX-3's in favor of my Klipsch 3.2 walnuts................hard to imagine but the bass is stronger with the Klipsch speakers!
> 
> ...


----------



## SirMarc

oregonian said:


> I spy some Pioneer Spec stuff.................the Spec 4 @ 150 wpc is a beast!  I have the Spec 2 @ 250 wpc and am a HUGE fan of Pioneer, owning 6 of their vintage amps.
> 
> I swapped speakers this weekend..............took out the Cerwin Vega DX-3's in favor of my Klipsch 3.2 walnuts................hard to imagine but the bass is stronger with the Klipsch speakers!



Nice rig, but too bad you can't get that speaker out of the corner. I feel your pain man, my room is not optimal for my speakers either...


----------



## Mechans1

sirmarc said:


> Nice rig, but too bad you can't get that speaker out of the corner. I feel your pain man, my room is not optimal for my speakers either...


 

 That last comment may be the reason the bass is so strong.  I own "heritage Klipsch," my first serious hifi buy were Heresys black cost $550 in 1976. A lot of money then.Much later  c. 2005,  I bought 1978 LaScalas in Birch* .  I already owned several others but I mention these because Bass as noted was never the kind of punch you in the gut type that Cerwin Vega was kown for.  Although the Klipsch you are discussing have more aggressive bass they still don't have he CW impac, I would think.  I would attribute part of the augmentation to the corner placement. I did this with my Heritage speakers as well to help the improve bass response.
 
* ( BTW price was $950 in 2005 dollars).


----------



## AppleheadMay

Nice pics indeed. How's that SPEC-2 compared to the SX receivers?


----------



## Oregonian

sirmarc said:


> Nice rig, but too bad you can't get that speaker out of the corner. I feel your pain man, my room is not optimal for my speakers either...


 

 Yeah, that's the problem I wish I could address but the room is what it is...............still sounds fantastic.


----------



## Oregonian

appleheadmay said:


> Nice pics indeed. How's that SPEC-2 compared to the SX receivers?


 

 Hard to say on my SX-1050 because I have it hooked up to Polk Audio M5JR speakers (good little speakers in their own right and only ones the wife would allow size-wise in the family room - it has 6" drivers and passive radiators) and a sub on the C speaker channel so it's hard to compare truly apples to apples set up like it is, ya know?  Still sounds fabulous now that I added the sub..........which shakes the house.  The 1050's main purpose is running the TV system, with maybe 20% of it's time dedicated to music.   Wife likes the sound and the looks so it's all good..........
  
 I've had the SA-9900 hooked up to the Klipsch speakers..............it pushes 110 wpc so it too is a beast and really sounds fantastic.


----------



## Oregonian

mechans1 said:


> That last comment may be the reason the bass is so strong.  I own "heritage Klipsch," my first serious hifi buy were Heresys black cost $550 in 1976. A lot of money then.Much later  c. 2005,  I bought 1978 LaScalas in Birch* .  I already owned several others but I mention these because* Bass as noted was never the kind of punch you in the gut type that Cerwin Vega was known for*.  *Although the Klipsch you are discussing have more aggressive bass they still don't have he CW impact,* I would think.  I would attribute part of the augmentation to the corner placement. I did this with my Heritage speakers as well to help the improve bass response.
> 
> * ( BTW price was $950 in 2005 dollars). 
  
 You nailed it - that's what I'm hearing/feeling.  I'll stick with these for a while and see down the road if I go back to the Vega's (which actually sound better than their reputation).  I would like to find a pair of Pioneer HPM100's or 150's eventually to round out the "all Pioneer" thing.


----------



## AppleheadMay

oregonian said:


> You nailed it - that's what I'm hearing/feeling.  I'll stick with these for a while and see down the road if I go back to the Vega's (which actually sound better than their reputation).  I would like to find a pair of Pioneer HPM100's or 150's eventually to round out the "all Pioneer" thing.


 
  
 I know of 2 pairs of HPM-100s and one pair of HPM-900 for sale in Spain.
  
 I am looking for a pair of Yamaha NS-2000 myself so if anyone knows of a pair gimme a yell!


----------



## SirMarc

oregonian said:


> Yeah, that's the problem I wish I could address but the room is what it is...............still sounds fantastic.



Cool


----------



## r2muchstuff

Den Rack
  


 Pioneer
 PL 630 Turntable
 Spec 3 Pre Amp
 TX 9500II Tuner
 SG 9500 EQ
 M73 Amp (used as headphone amp)
 Exclusive M3 Amp (used as speaker amp)
  
 Not shown -
 Emotive XDA for digital sources
 HPM 100 speakers
 Tape out feeds a FM transmitter to broadcast the analogue sources to the whole house/yard.
  
 I am considering moving this system to the Pioneer short rack or adding a tape deck to this rack.
  
 r2


----------



## Oregonian

Follow up - here's the Polk Audio M5JR speaker running off the SX-1050 for the TV/audio system in the family room...........can't see the sub but it's an 8" Energy unit in the back of the stand.  A sub is not overrated..............


----------



## Oregonian

r2muchstuff said:


> Den Rack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome setup bud!  Never get tired of looking at Spec gear.............the Spec 3 is a VERY rare preamp.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Awesome indeed both of you!
  
 I might just have found an SX-1250. Negotiating with the seller as we speak.
  
  
 I am still wondering about speakers though.
 My infinity Kappa 7, Pioneer HPM-150, Yamaha NS-2000, Ditone DS-V3000 or 5000, B&W 802 D (first diamond series, right after the Nautilus series).
 And is an SX-1250 enough to power all these biggies? I read around the web about the Spec-2 amp but I see most prefer the receivers.
 What about putting a brand new Rotel RB-1590 in the mix? 350W power amp.
 http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1590
  
 All your thoughts are welcome.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Got it!
 220Volts version.
 Hope it's good. Some pics.


----------



## r2muchstuff

oregonian said:


> Awesome setup bud!  Never get tired of looking at Spec gear.............the Spec 3 is a VERY rare preamp.


 
  
 Thank you.
  
 The M73 and Exclusive M3 are hard to find also, at least in the USA.
  
 This system has taken a while to put together.
  


appleheadmay said:


> Awesome indeed both of you!
> 
> I might just have found an SX-1250. Negotiating with the seller as we speak.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you.
  
 SX1250 is 160w/ch @ 8 ohm and 200w/ch @ 4 ohm.  AT 80 watts the IM and THD were spec at .05%.  Headphone out has 150 ohm resistors in the circuit.
  
 Spec 2 is 250w/ch @ 8 ohm.  Not even a doubling of the output, headroom, SPL or whatever.
  
 IMHO the SX1250 should drive most/all of your choices (Kappa 7 is reported to present low ohms, thus it might stress this mininum 4 ohm load amp), and synergy should be considered.
  
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

What about the JBL 250 TI?
Hard to drive? Anybody knows their sound? Seems to be different from most JBLs.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I do not know that JBL, on line comments talk about driving them with expensive powerful clean amps pushing 250 - 500 watts.  Maybe you should consider less demanding speakers for a better match.  Again, synergy plays a large part in how these vintage systems preform and sound IMHO 
  
 r2


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> Awesome indeed both of you!
> 
> I might just have found an SX-1250. Negotiating with the seller as we speak.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I run large advents with mine.  It sounds terrific too.  By the looks of things your 1250 has been restored (at least partially).  Those blue filter caps are not original.  Nice!


----------



## r2muchstuff

Yes, Large Advents, KLH, JBL L100, HPMs, Kilpsch, Polk, B&W, Boston and many more will sound great with this and other vintage.
  
 r2


----------



## Skylab

Great stuff, r2 and AppleHead!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks Skylab.
  
 Yep, need to rethink speaker options. For now it will be the Kappas. Will restore them in perfect condition first.
 I might have a chance of getting a pair of the first B&W 802s that had the diamond tweeters here locally.
 The Yamaha NS-2000 keep hunting my thoughts though.


----------



## headphones1999

the 1250 looks awesome mate, congrats
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 what are the differences between the Yamaha 1000 and the 2000?


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> the 1250 looks awesome mate, congrats
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 As far as I know it started with the 1000, then improved versions like the 1000M and 1000X and a final improved version named 2000. Later there has been a limited run of 10000X for 100 years Yamaha.
 Differences between 1000 versions and 2000/10000 versions are carbon fibre woofer instead of paper pulp, lower frequency response, higher power handling, larger cabinets and surely better looking. The cabinets are rounded and drivers are centrally aligned.  Both the 10000 and 2000 fit nicely on the 10000 stand.
  
  
 Here you see a Pioneer HPM-100 and NS-1000.
  




  
  
 And a 2000 from one of our fellow members here.


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Got it!
> 220Volts version.
> Hope it's good. Some pics.


 

  Wow what a beauty . Congratulations your unit looks amazing it almost looks new . One suggestion after you check it out for awhile . You could try upgrading the fuses in it with premium fuses Like I have on my concept 16.5. it does make a difference things get a lot quieter and the sound definitely improves . I went with  isoclean fuses on my concept 16.5 . I also replaced the metal jumper plug with a good rca interconnect . I am sure you will be more than satisfied with the result . Happy listening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## AppleheadMay

buson160man said:


> Wow what a beauty . Congratulations your unit looks amazing it almost looks new . One suggestion after you check it out for awhile . You could try upgrading the fuses in it with premium fuses Like I have on my concept 16.5. it does make a difference things get a lot quieter and the sound definitely improves . I went with  isoclean fuses on my concept 16.5 . I also replaced the metal jumper plug with a good rca interconnect . I am sure you will be more than satisfied with the result . Happy listening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
  
 Thanks! 
  
 How many fuses are there in a 1250 anyway? One on the back for the voltage but more inside as well?


----------



## headphones1999

wow, must be very rare to find...
  
 what is a fair price for the 2000? i see someone trying to sell them for 9K$ which is way too much for a pair i guess...


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> wow, must be very rare to find...
> 
> what is a fair price for the 2000? i see someone trying to sell them for 9K$ which is way too much for a pair i guess...


 
  
  
 About 2-3k I was told. That guy in Turkey you saw I think? He's nuts, saw many of his things highly overpriced already.


----------



## AppleheadMay

A review of a restored and recapped Sansui 9090.
 The service was done by the guy I brought all my vinatge gear to this morning.
 The SX-1250 is being shipped straight to him so I can go and pick up everything at the same time.
 The link to the shop is in the review.
  
 https://medium.com/cuepoint/how-a-digital-guy-fell-in-love-with-a-vintage-stereo-receiver-3bc132a347d7#.wq3cyo7tg


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> A review of a restored and recapped Sansui 9090.
> The service was done by the guy I brought all my vinatge gear to this morning.
> The SX-1250 is being shipped straight to him so I can go and pick up everything at the same time.
> The link to the shop is in the review.
> ...



A full recap for 200 bucks? Damn, I wish lol. Mine is in for a major service, and it will probably be costing me more than that.
I agree with this guy about the soundstage, the width and depth are spectacular on the 9090. My back up Kenwood kr-7600 has decent width, but not much depth. Ugh, I wish this guy would hurry up lol


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> A full recap for 200 bucks? Damn, I wish lol. Mine is in for a major service, and it will probably be costing me more than that.
> I agree with this guy about the soundstage, the width and depth are spectacular on the 9090. My back up Kenwood kr-7600 has decent width, but not much depth. Ugh, I wish this guy would hurry up lol


 
  
 Ya, can't get a correctly done monster receiver recap for $200.  More like $400 (the filter caps will cost $200 alone assuming they are good ones).


----------



## headphones1999

appleheadmay said:


> About 2-3k I was told. That guy in Turkey you saw I think? He's nuts, saw many of his things highly overpriced already.


 
 Indeed nuts...
  
 I had a chance to buy the 8080 (or the 8080db, not sure), but some guy told me that the 8080 just not good match for my speakers, so i ended up buying onkyo amp i have now, and i have absolutely no regerts


----------



## Monsterzero

hey all,

 New to this MASSIVE thread,so forgive if this has been asked before,but....

 Im really into vintage,pretty much everything,but I dont know much about vintage pre-amps.

 Is there an *affordable(under 500.00) *preamp I can get that would work well with Beyer T1's and also do a planar that i may pickup in the future?

 I dont have any Fix-It-Yourself ability so I need something in good solid working condition


----------



## jnorris

monsterzero said:


> hey all,
> 
> New to this MASSIVE thread,so forgive if this has been asked before,but....
> 
> ...


 
 Most pre-amps don't have headphone outputs, and if they do it's probably just an IC based amplifier like the LM4556 which, IMO, doesn't provide
 sufficient current to drive the Beyers or planars.  If you want to go down the vintage road you should be looking for an integrated amp or a receiver.


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> hey all,
> 
> New to this MASSIVE thread,so forgive if this has been asked before,but....
> 
> ...


 

 The Pioneer Spec 1 preamp has a headphone plug...............combined with either the Spec 4 (150 wpc) or the Spec 2 (250 wpc) amps it's pretty much endgame.


----------



## buson160man

headphones1999 said:


> Indeed nuts...
> 
> I had a chance to buy the 8080 (or the 8080db, not sure), but some guy told me that the 8080 just not good match for my speakers, so i ended up buying onkyo amp i have now, and i have absolutely no regerts


 

  I used to have an onkyo tx-670 receiver which was onkyos top model back then . I remember it being the only receiver with a four ohm rating back then .It was pretty well built though not as powerful as the other receivers. It did sound very good though and had an excellent tuner .It was fairly heavy from what I remember . At the time onkyo was not that well known . I believe the unit was made in japan . Of course most brands were made in japan back then the golden years of Japanese audio . it was a very nice looking unit too though with a faux wood vinyl clad finish on the case . In later years onkyo came out with their quartz lock tuning units.


----------



## jnorris

oregonian said:


> The Pioneer Spec 1 preamp has a headphone plug...............combined with either the Spec 4 (150 wpc) or the Spec 2 (250 wpc) amps it's pretty much endgame.


 
 The Spec 1's headphone plug is fed from the output of a separate power amp.  The speaker outputs of the amp are connected to the Spec 1 preamp, which controls the routing of the output to headphones or either of two pairs of speakers.  This is similar to the arrangement that the Dynaco preamps used.  The upside is that this differed from many separate amp/preamp combos which did not have headphone outputs, but the downside is that you will need to purchase an amp.


----------



## r2muchstuff

The headphone out on the Spec 1 is via 150 ohm resistors, like most of the 70's Pioneer Intergrated amps and receivers.
  
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> Most pre-amps don't have headphone outputs, and if they do it's probably just an IC based amplifier like the LM4556 which, IMO, doesn't provide
> sufficient current to drive the Beyers or planars.  If you want to go down the vintage road you should be looking for an integrated amp or a receiver.


 
 Thanks for everyone that responded

 Im certainly ok with a receiver or integrated amp.....

 So is it realistic for me to look for a receiver that has a nice headphone out that will make the T1s or HiFiMan planar sound really nice in my price range?

 And if such a receiver exists can yall toss out a few model names I can research?


----------



## headphones1999

buson160man said:


> I used to have an onkyo tx-670 receiver which was onkyos top model back then . I remember it being the only receiver with a four ohm rating back then .It was pretty well built though not as powerful as the other receivers. It did sound very good though and had an excellent tuner .It was fairly heavy from what I remember . At the time onkyo was not that well known . I believe the unit was made in japan . Of course most brands were made in japan back then the golden years of Japanese audio . it was a very nice looking unit too though with a faux wood vinyl clad finish on the case . In later years onkyo came out with their quartz lock tuning units.


 
 lol the tx670 is from 1975, mine was made in 1998 (I think we should start call this vintage amp as well)
 anyway they probably sound very different from each other.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Howe come these old integrateds/receivers have such a nice headphone output and modern (even pricey) integrateds headphone out is worth crap?
 Both get their sound from the speaker outputs through rseistors as far as I know, so where does the difference come from?
  
 I mean, the phones out of my 4k PM-11 isn't worth plugging the phones in and my little 40W vintage Aiwa's phones out is only bested by my Zana of all the amps I've owned.
 The PM-11 is really good with speakers though, I've heard it drive various B&W bookshelves as well as floorstanders up to the 802s. Like vintage receivers, it's power is also rather underrated on the spec sheet. 110W vs 165W measured.


----------



## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> Thanks for everyone that responded
> 
> Im certainly ok with a receiver or integrated amp.....
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I think the Aiwa AX-7600 would fit nicely within your budget. It does a great job with My LCD-XCs.
 Not sure how it would do with a HE-6 but I can tell you I never managed to get it above 11'O Clock on the volume scale with any of my phones and that was really loud.
 But there are many other brands, Im sure many of them will do fine for your purpose.


----------



## Monsterzero

appleheadmay said:


> I think the Aiwa AX-7600 would fit nicely within your budget. It does a great job with My LCD-XCs.
> Not sure how it would do with a HE-6 but I can tell you I never managed to get it above 11'O Clock on the volume scale with any of my phones and that was really loud.
> But there are many other brands, Im sure many of them will do fine for your purpose.


 

 I found a few receivers....thoughts on which,if any,would be a good buy

 Onkyo TX-4500 MKII $450.00

 Harmon Kardon HK 730 $450.00

 Pioneer SX-1010 $750.00

 great/good/bad/awful/too expensive?

 These are restored and come with 1 year warranty


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> I found a few receivers....thoughts on which,if any,would be a good buy
> 
> 
> Onkyo TX-4500 MKII $450.00
> ...



I've seen them much cheaper locally in NJ. Not sure where you're located though...


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 1010 is very well thought of - just make sure the power supply has been reworked as that is the Achilles heel.  The price may be a bit high but is in the range I have seen after refurb.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im in L.I. NY

 yeah checking that infamous auction site now,and finding better prices but,as I said before Im not repair savvy,so having it in perfect working condition and one year warranty appeals to me

 He has it listed at 9.4/10.0 w/ 1 year warranty.

 Should I be looking at this as a sidegrade vs. the headphone amps I already own(check my signature) an upgrade or downgrade?


----------



## r2muchstuff

A Tec (or DYI) can change the resistors on the headphone out to something lower, not real low but something like 60-80 ohms is OK.  I am waiting on my Pioneer SA 9800 which is at the Tec now.  It will have 60 ohm headphone out when is done.  It will serve as my main Sennheiser HD650 amp from my server system   Clean and powerful.
  
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> A Tec (or DYI) can change the resistors on the headphone out to something lower, not real low but something like 60-80 ohms is OK.  I am waiting on my Pioneer SA 9900 which is at the Tec now.  It will have 60 ohm headphone when is done.  It will serve as my main Sennheiser HD650 amp from my server system   Clean and powerful.
> 
> r2


 

 assume Im clueless,cuz I am....If one doesnt swap out the headphone resistor,what is likely to happen to a Beyer T1,or a low impedance headphone like Alessandro or ATH AD2000s?

 Will they go up in a puff of smoke,not sound good...or am I missing something?


----------



## r2muchstuff

AppleheadMay,
  
 It is my understanding that much of the more modern stuff uses IC amps instead of tapping the speaker lines with resistors.  Why?  Which amps?  Case by case.  Take a look at schematics.
  
 YMMV,
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> assume Im clueless,cuz I am....If one doesnt swap out the headphone resistor,what is likely to happen to a Beyer T1,or a low impedance headphone like Alessandro or ATH AD2000s?
> 
> Will they go up in a puff of smoke,not sound good...or am I missing something?


 

 Nothing bad, other than not following the 8x impedance matching suggestion for best sound.  Either way the T1 will probably be fine.
  
 r2


----------



## Skylab

That's not a bad price at all for a fully restored SX-1010 with a warranty. The 1010 is a very fine sounding receiver.


----------



## Oregonian

appleheadmay said:


> *How come these old integrateds/receivers have such a nice headphone output and modern (even pricey) integrateds headphone out is worth crap?*
> Both get their sound from the speaker outputs through rseistors as far as I know, so where does the difference come from?
> 
> I mean, the phones out of my 4k PM-11 isn't worth plugging the phones in and my little 40W vintage Aiwa's phones out is only bested by my Zana of all the amps I've owned.
> The PM-11 is really good with speakers though, I've heard it drive various B&W bookshelves as well as floorstanders up to the 802s. Like vintage receivers, it's power is also rather underrated on the spec sheet. 110W vs 165W measured.


 
  
 The modern units do not come direct via resistors off the amp - it comes via an opamp.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Im in L.I. NY
> 
> 
> yeah checking that infamous auction site now,and finding better prices but,as I said before Im not repair savvy,so having it in perfect working condition and one year warranty appeals to me
> ...



Sorry about that, didn't realize they were restored. I've heard the 1010, its a very nice receiver...


----------



## jnorris

oregonian said:


> The modern units do not come direct via resistors off the amp - it comes via an opamp.


 
 The PM-11 does come from the amp via resistors.  I just checked the schematic on hifiengine.  Not sure what the issue is.


----------



## jnorris

I wouldn't pay $750 for any vintage Pioneer - especially one that is that old. Instead, I would consider something like a brand-new Parasound Zamp v3/Zpre2 combination at that price.  The old receivers have noisy preamp stages, and many suffer from tuner bleed-through when the input selector was set to Phono or Aux.  With speakers, and with some less sensitive headphones, this may not be an issue, but with many headphones the noise will be very distracting.  If you spend less than $300, you live with it.  At $750 you shouldn't have too.


----------



## Monsterzero

I will call the guy and ask him to test the Aux input for tuner bleedthru...thx for the heads up!


----------



## Skylab

Neither of my Pioneer receives have that issue. Nor are their preamps sections noisy. But both of mine were fully recapped and they did have the transistors in the preamp (and phono and tone amp) upgraded.


----------



## Oregonian

jnorris said:


> I wouldn't pay $750 for any vintage Pioneer - especially one that is that old. Instead, I would consider something like a brand-new Parasound Zamp v3/Zpre2 combination at that price.  The old receivers have noisy preamp stages, and many suffer from tuner bleed-through when the input selector was set to Phono or Aux.  With speakers, and with some less sensitive headphones, this may not be an issue, but with many headphones the noise will be very distracting.  If you spend less than $300, you live with it.  At $750 you shouldn't have too.


 

 You wouldn't pay $750 for a Spec 1/2 setup?   Or a SX-1250 that's been gone through? 
  
 For the record, I own 8 vintage amps/receivers and have never heard the bleed through on the receivers you mention.  I'm sure it exists but shouldn't be broad brushed as though it's a common issue. 
  
 On this thread, you are really in the minority, which is fine.  We love our vintage gear..............


----------



## SirMarc

My Kenwood bleeds across channels if you have 2 sources going at the same time, my Sansui doesn't. Easy enough to rectify though, just don't have 2 things going at once


----------



## AppleheadMay

oregonian said:


> The modern units do not come direct via resistors off the amp - it comes via an opamp.


 
  
 That would indeed explain it, but ...
  


jnorris said:


> The PM-11 does come from the amp via resistors.  I just checked the schematic on hifiengine.  Not sure what the issue is.


 
  
 That's what I thought and heard as well. Same for all the Marantz stereo amps, I had and heard many and tried them all with phones.
 They do all deliver a flat sound and don't go very loud wheres my vintage amps are lively and can go ear-bleeding loud and best a lot of dedicated headphone amps IMO.
 My Marantz NA-11 DAC which has a little dedicated headamp board sounds better than the PM-11 integrateds output.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Neither of my Pioneer receives have that issue. Nor are their preamps sections noisy. But both of mine were fully recapped and they did have the transistors in the preamp (and phono and tone amp) upgraded.


 
  
 +1.  If restored properly the sound is excellent.


----------



## jnorris

In truth to tell, having sold Pioneer and Kenwood products in the mid-to-late seventies (including the stuff being called vintage nowadays), and having owned much of it over the years, I am somewhat amused by the adoration being heaped upon that equipment today.  Back then, none of us thought it was that good.  I will say this, though, physically, it is better made than 80% of the product being sold today, and it does present a fine value as a _low-priced_ alternative to modern gear.  But advances in the technology around capacitors, cabling, resistors, transistors and shielding have yielded marked improvements in noise level, transparency, stage width and depth, and dynamic response, that the older stuff just can't touch.
 But don't let me rain on your parade.  I, too, get excited when I see a shiny silver faceplate or glowing blue tuner dial for a low price on Craigslist.  But for me, I am too often disappointed when I get it home, plug it in, and listen to it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> In truth to tell, having sold Pioneer and Kenwood products in the mid-to-late seventies (including the stuff being called vintage nowadays), and having owned much of it over the years, I am somewhat amused by the adoration being heaped upon that equipment today.  Back then, none of us thought it was that good.  I will say this, though, physically, it is better made than 80% of the product being sold today, and it does present a fine value as a _low-priced_ alternative to modern gear.  But advances in the technology around capacitors, cabling, resistors, transistors and shielding have yielded marked improvements in noise level, transparency, stage width and depth, and dynamic response, that the older stuff just can't touch.
> But don't let me rain on your parade.  I, too, get excited when I see a shiny silver faceplate or glowing blue tuner dial for a low price on Craigslist.  But for me, I am too often disappointed when I get it home, plug it in, and listen to it.


 
  
 I think the point we are making is that only in a restored state with today's better components do they sound good.  That coupled with the power available at the HP jack make them a step above.  Both my 750 and 1250 sounded awful when I first got them - but not anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Skylab

Right. I wouldn't expect most old, unrestored, cheap Craigslist units to sound all that good either. Restoration is required to make vintage gear sound as good as it can/should. But I wouldn't call a lot of what goes into modern gear "improvements". My vintage gear use discrete components in many places where most modern gear would use an IC. Sure, maybe a decent one, in some cases, but certainly no guarantee it's going to produce better sound in any way. 

I have a separate hifi full of expensive, high end modern gear. It sounds great. But does it sound "better" than my vintage rig? Nope. Just different.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I would add that, IMHO, "restored to original specs" by replacing out of spec/bad components may be sufficient.  A complete rebuild and recap is wonderful, but not always necessary (or cost effective).  Original spec can equal high SQ when compared to todays IC and opamp designs.  Of course, a rebuilt to better than original spec using new parts can be special.
  
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

Okay

 so I spoke to the guy with the Pioneer sx1010 and it has been completely torn down and rebuilt,recapped...everything....
 Problem is im probably not going to have the funds for it before it sells(he says they dont last more than a few days)

 So I have been scouring some receivers on Fleabay and have come across a couple things that is a bit above my paygrade,and hoping someone can help clarify

 Some I have seen are "quadradial" receivers...wth does that mean?

 Also have seen a couple units with multiple headphone outs...some are listed as 1 and 2,but Ive come across a couple that say "front and rear"

 Any other advice for a complete vintage receiver noob would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Hutnicks

monsterzero said:


> Okay
> 
> so I spoke to the guy with the Pioneer sx1010 and it has been completely torn down and rebuilt,recapped...everything....
> Problem is im probably not going to have the funds for it before it sells(he says they dont last more than a few days)
> ...


 

 Quadradial was a 70's gimmick. It's an  FM output RCA jack on the back of the receiver which was to be hooked up to a 4 channel decoder for FM radio. As we all know 4 channel radio never happened so they are little more than an heirloom.
 The upside is it should have no effect whatsoever on the rest of the workings of the amp.
  
 Never heard of front and rear marked headphone jacks. You've got me on that one.


----------



## buson160man

I agree refurbishing these old gems is essential to get the best sound out of them . With the improvement in electrical components over the last 30 to 40 years it is very probable that a refurbished vintage unit probably will sound and perform to a much higher standard than when these units were new . Hence they can perform very competently even when compared to modern units . The fact that they still work after all that time is a testament to the quality of the design and long term reliability . I can attest to that with the performance of my vintage unit which I purchased around a year back it sounds awesome with all my headphones .  In fact I have to say there is so much power that I myself have not heard a modern even high powered dedicated headphone amp that has the authority that my monster vintage unit has when used with headphones.


----------



## r2muchstuff

hutnicks said:


> Quadradial was a 70's gimmick. It's an  FM output RCA jack on the back of the receiver which was to be hooked up to a 4 channel decoder for FM radio. As we all know 4 channel radio never happened so they are little more than an heirloom.
> The upside is it should have no effect whatsoever on the rest of the workings of the amp.
> 
> Never heard of front and rear marked headphone jacks. You've got me on that one.


 

 There were four channel headphones.   Normal 2 channel used just the the Front (for stereo left & right) and four channel phones used both plugs (rear left & right). The rear were discrete or synthesized right and left, just like the four channel speaker set up.  Four channel sources came in turntable and tape sources.  If my memory is correct, a few FM stations did broadcast 4 channel for a while.
  
 r2


----------



## jnorris

buson160man said:


> I agree refurbishing these old gems is essential to get the best sound out of them . With the improvement in electrical components over the last 30 to 40 years it is very probable that a refurbished vintage unit probably will sound and perform to a much higher standard than when these units were new . Hence they can perform very competently even when compared to modern units . The fact that they still work after all that time is a testament to the quality of the design and long term reliability . I can attest to that with the performance of my vintage unit which I purchased around a year back it sounds awesome with all my headphones .  In fact I have to say there is so much power that I myself have not heard a modern even high powered dedicated headphone amp that has the authority that my monster vintage unit has when used with headphones.



 



I agree on every point, and have always said in these forums that modern headphone amps do not provide the current necessary to drive headphones properly. My issue at the outset was the spending of $750, plus an additional $300-$400 on a recap, on a 40 year old piece of equipment. That same money, applied to a more purpose-built integrated amp by a higher end manufacturer, will yeild much greater performance. Modern amps and receivers by the giants of the 70's (Pioneer, Kenwood, Sansui, etc.) are junk and have been since the mid '80's - I also agree that any competently re-conditioned amp from the '70s would obliterate any new product from the same manufacturer.


----------



## SX3900

You do not need to spend that $750...
 For the past few weeks on feabay, Pioneer SX-3700 (45-Watts) are going for $150-$175, Pioneer SX-3800 (60-Watts) for $200-$250, even the often forgotten VSX-D1S (150-Watts) going for under $200. Even if fully re-cap you are still way under that $750. Even the SX-3800 (120-Watts) from time to time is under $600. I do admit that last fall my SX-3900 was up to $1400 on feabay, but now the pricing is way down. Supply vs. Demand = $$$


----------



## Oregonian

sx3900 said:


> You do not need to spend that $750...
> For the past few weeks on feabay, Pioneer SX-3700 (45-Watts) are going for $150-$175, Pioneer SX-3800 (60-Watts) for $200-$250, even the often forgotten VSX-D1S (150-Watts) going for under $200. Even if fully re-cap you are still way under that $750. Even the SX-3800 (120-Watts) from time to time is under $600. I do admit that last fall my SX-3900 was up to $1400 on feabay, but now the pricing is way down. Supply vs. Demand = $$$


 

 And there's a guy on Audiokarma that sells recapped SX-3900's for $750 if I remember right...............Skylab has one of those.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> My issue at the outset was the spending of $750, plus an additional $300-$400 on a recap, on a 40 year old piece of equipment.


 
  
 Admittedly, I have an advantage in this regard in that I restore my own stuff at the cost of parts (plus I enjoy doing it).


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> Admittedly, I have an advantage in this regard in that I restore my own stuff at the cost of parts (plus I enjoy doing it).


 
 That's a win-win!  I enjoy doing that too.  Actually I just gutted a Pioneer SA-6500 amp and am going to use the chassis to house an LM3886 gainclone amp.  I hesitated at first, but decided that the Pioneer was just a piece of junk I would have eventually donated to Goodwill anyway.  Don't worry, my SA-8500II is still safe under the ottoman.  Although I don't particularly like it, it is definitely not a piece of junk.


----------



## SpeakerBox

That's cool - should be a fun project!  I just built a Pass B1 Buffer that I use with my Rowland amps (see avatar for pic).


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> Don't worry, my SA-8500II is still safe under the ottoman.  Although I don't particularly like it, it is definitely not a piece of junk.


 
  
 Have you considered replacing all of the tantalum caps in the 8500II with film and giving it another listen?
  
 I bet it will sound much better.


----------



## jnorris

Excellent job on the Pass Buffer!  My projects don't come out nearly as professional looking!  I see you have a Kenwood tuner.  Up until last year I had an old Kenwood KT-815 tuner that was spectacular, but the state of FM...not so much.  Sold it, a Denon and a JVC tuner on Craigslist because I gave up on FM completely.
  
 I may replace the tantalums at some point, but I don't blame them for my dislike of the unit.  My MAC1900 also has tants between pre and power amps and I like it just fine.  There's just so much un-needed circuitry in the 8500, and in all the Pioneers, that I'm sure will need to be bypassed before the sound improves.


----------



## Monsterzero

So im slowly negotiating the vintage receiver learning curve.Ive noticed the big ticket items are the "monster" receivers sporting 200+watts.

 I already have a nice tube amp to drive my GoldenEar T2s and after talking to Sandy Gross yesterday,although he thought I was slightly nuts,he assurred me that ,if for whatever reason, I did try to hook my speakers they wouldnt(shouldnt) go up in a haze of blue smoke.

 I think Id try my speakers on a vintage amp just for curiosity sake, but for essentially headphone(T1+hard to drive planar) use,what would be the sweet spot for watts from a vintage receiver?


----------



## SX3900

I would like to know why we all are talking about high dollar receivers to drive our phones when even the 20-watts receivers can drive even the 600 ohms cans. Look at the pricing for the 45-watt or less silver-face units, some are going for under $100. Even with a rebuild, the silver face units are not costing a arm and a leg. 
 Just my $0.02


----------



## Oregonian

sx3900 said:


> I would like to know why we all are talking about high dollar receivers to drive our phones when even the 20-watts receivers can drive even the 600 ohms cans. Look at the pricing for the 45-watt or less silver-face units, some are going for under $100. Even with a rebuild, the silver face units are not costing a arm and a leg.
> Just my $0.02


 

 Very true.  I just bought a Yamaha CR-620 (35 wpc) for my daughter's house that sounds amazing driving my Denon MD5000 headphones when I was testing it this past weekend after its' DeOxit bath, not to mention how well it drove the Yamaha NS-4 speakers I had laying around to pair with it.  Also have an old Realistic STA-64B at only 16 wpc that I used in my office driving my MD2000's - also sounded excellent.


----------



## Monsterzero

sx3900 said:


> I would like to know why we all are talking about high dollar receivers to drive our phones when even the 20-watts receivers can drive even the 600 ohms cans. Look at the pricing for the 45-watt or less silver-face units, some are going for under $100. Even with a rebuild, the silver face units are not costing a arm and a leg.
> Just my $0.02


 

 hence the question...so far the only amps I own are a Schiit Magni Uber for 32 and 40 ohm headphones,and my Woo Wa2 for my T1s.

 I was looking into getting a pair of Alpha Dogs and Mike at Woo informed me neither of my amps would work well with those...so my thoughts are instead of buying a dedicated headphone amp for each and every headphone I plan to buy,why not give some old school receivers a try....not to mention how beautiful some of them are.

 So 40 WPC is plenty for planars,yeah?


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> Excellent job on the Pass Buffer!  My projects don't come out nearly as professional looking!  I see you have a Kenwood tuner.  Up until last year I had an old Kenwood KT-815 tuner that was spectacular, but the state of FM...not so much.  Sold it, a Denon and a JVC tuner on Craigslist because I gave up on FM completely.
> 
> I may replace the tantalums at some point, but I don't blame them for my dislike of the unit.  My MAC1900 also has tants between pre and power amps and I like it just fine.  There's just so much un-needed circuitry in the 8500, and in all the Pioneers, that I'm sure will need to be bypassed before the sound improves.


 
  
 Yes, rebuilt Kenwood KT-7550.  We are blessed with two great Jazz stations in Rochester NY (WGMC 90.1 and WJZR 105.9).  It gets plenty of use.
  
 As far as the Tants.  I was ready to jettison the SX750 until I removed the the last ones - I was like someone moved a new piece of gear in its place.  It then beat out my previous HP reference which was a restored Sherwood 8900A (I just sold that one).


----------



## jnorris

If you really want to hear a difference, and you are sure there is no DC offset, remove or bypass the coupling cap to the power amp stage altogether.  I did that on my Hafler DH200 30 years ago and suddenly I could hear the wood tones in the piano sound.  I eventually wound up putting some quality electrolytics bypassed with Wima poly's in place there because I was afraid some DC was going to leak through and cook things.


----------



## jnorris

oregonian said:


> Very true.  I just bought a Yamaha CR-620 (35 wpc) for my daughter's house that sounds amazing driving my Denon MD5000 headphones when I was testing it this past weekend after its' DeOxit bath, not to mention how well it drove the Yamaha NS-4 speakers I had laying around to pair with it.  Also have an old Realistic STA-64B at only 16 wpc that I used in my office driving my MD2000's - also sounded excellent.


 
 My Advent receiver (15wpc conservatively) make a great headphone amp!.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> If you really want to hear a difference, and you are sure there is no DC offset, remove or bypass the coupling cap to the power amp stage altogether.  I did that on my Hafler DH200 30 years ago and suddenly I could hear the wood tones in the piano sound.  I eventually wound up putting some quality electrolytics bypassed with Wima poly's in place there because I was afraid some DC was going to leak through and cook things.


 
  
 The best capacitor is no capacitor - we agree 100%.


----------



## AppleheadMay

jnorris said:


> buson160man said:
> 
> 
> > I agree refurbishing these old gems is essential to get the best sound out of them . With the improvement in electrical components over the last 30 to 40 years it is very probable that a refurbished vintage unit probably will sound and perform to a much higher standard than when these units were new . Hence they can perform very competently even when compared to modern units . The fact that they still work after all that time is a testament to the quality of the design and long term reliability . I can attest to that with the performance of my vintage unit which I purchased around a year back it sounds awesome with all my headphones .  In fact I have to say there is so much power that I myself have not heard a modern even high powered dedicated headphone amp that has the authority that my monster vintage unit has when used with headphones.
> ...


 
  
 Ok, so a Marantz PM-11 Sx, PM14 SE, PM-KI Pearl  or Yamaha A-S3000 won't yield great results with speakers? They beat a totally undiscrete and unbalanced Rotel 350W at 3000$ with ease. They won't beat a Pair of MA-9Sx for sure I can tell you but they will give any Classe A/B amp a tough challenge given the price difference. The new Classe Class D amps are a joke.
 New technology? Kharma speakers with ceramic drivers anyone? Sound as bad as speakers can get yet some "high-end" manufacurers like to copy the ceramic crap.
 So just like you say, yes, some vintage gear is superior and yes some high priced modern gear beats it but some of the highest priced gear nowadays is a joke. But saying some of the highly regarded vintage brands can't make anything worthwhile anymore is a big mistake. Okay, most of their stuff is useless but the amps I mentioned before as well as Pioneers plasma screens are hard to beat. Not to mention the Pioneer SE-M1. Best phones I ever heard although I'm a big fan of closed phones mainly of the Foster created models, be they original or modded.
In any case, I really love the sound of those vintage amps for phones as well as for speakers. OK, A Marantz PM-11 with B&W 80x beats them in detail and soundstage but in sheer power, bass response and allround enjoyment the vintage gear wins. Not to mention the looks and the joy to look at them from my perspective.


----------



## Monsterzero

anyone have or used to have a Sansui 881?From what Ive read its a very nice sounding receiver @ a conservative 63wpc

 There is one in working condition for 125.00,and the place to go in my area to repair vintage gear says an additional 120-150 to get primed to rock.

 Thoughts?


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> anyone have or used to have a Sansui 881?From what Ive read its a very nice sounding receiver @ a conservative 63wpc
> 
> 
> There is one in working condition for 125.00,and the place to go in my area to repair vintage gear says an additional 120-150 to get primed to rock.
> ...



I've heard they sound good


----------



## SX3900

monsterzero said:


> hence the question...so far the only amps I own are a Schiit Magni Uber for 32 and 40 ohm headphones,and my Woo Wa2 for my T1s.
> 
> I was looking into getting a pair of Alpha Dogs and Mike at Woo informed me neither of my amps would work well with those...so my thoughts are instead of buying a dedicated headphone amp for each and every headphone I plan to buy,why not give some old school receivers a try....not to mention how beautiful some of them are.
> 
> So 40 WPC is plenty for planars,yeah?


 

 Yes.......
 If you have speakers, typical rooms are driven with less than 2 watts at the speakers. For wall rattling crank the receiver up to +5 watts of output power.
 Bottom Line: Get the receiver that you feel good with both $$$ and emotion.....


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Ok, so a Marantz PM-11 Sx, PM14 SE, PM-KI Pearl  or Yamaha A-S3000 won't yield great results with speakers? They beat a totally undiscrete and unbalanced Rotel 350W at 3000$ with ease. They won't beat a Pair of MA-9Sx for sure I can tell you but they will give any Classe A/B amp a tough challenge given the price difference. The new Classe Class D amps are a joke.
> New technology? Kharma speakers with ceramic drivers anyone? Sound as bad as speakers can get yet some "high-end" manufacurers like to copy the ceramic crap.
> So just like you say, yes, some vintage gear is superior and yes some high priced modern gear beats it but some of the highest priced gear nowadays is a joke. But saying some of the highly regarded vintage brands can't make anything worthwhile anymore is a big mistake. Okay, most of their stuff is useless but the amps I mentioned before as well as Pioneers plasma screens are hard to beat. Not to mention the Pioneer SE-M1. Best phones I ever heard although I'm a big fan of closed phones mainly of the Foster created models, be they original or modded.
> In any case, I really love the sound of those vintage amps for phones as well as for speakers. OK, A Marantz PM-11 with B&W 80x beats them in detail and soundstage but in sheer power, bass response and allround enjoyment the vintage gear wins. Not to mention the looks and the joy to look at them from my perspective.


 

  I will argue that  the newest  highest end gear is not better than the best of these old vintage receivers that have been carefully refurbished . I would love for you to hear my recapped Concept 16.5 I think you would be surprised at how it sounds . I have heard a lot of new high end headphone amps including a few of the much vaulted cavalli amps and while they do sound excellent in a lot of ways my 16.5 can more than hold its own against them  including soundstage and detail retrieval . You should hear my Concept unit on low level detail it would I am sure leave you dumbfounded by its low level detail retrieval .


----------



## AppleheadMay

buson160man said:


> I will argue that  the newest  highest end gear is not better than the best of these old vintage receivers that have been carefully refurbished . I would love for you to hear my recapped Concept 16.5 I think you would be surprised at how it sounds . I have heard a lot of new high end headphone amps including a few of the much vaulted cavalli amps and while they do sound excellent in a lot of ways my 16.5 can more than hold its own against them  including soundstage and detail retrieval . You should hear my Concept unit on low level detail it would I am sure leave you dumbfounded by its low level detail retrieval .


 
  
 Fully agree, love that vintage gear and it beats a lot of crap that is made these days at various prices.
  
 But can't agree with Jnorris that nothing nice is made anymore at "somewhat" reasonable prices. Prices that match the vintage gears new prices if you take inflation into account.
 And yes there is some gear made nowadays at insane prices both good and bad.
  
 I remember Skylab saying something like both a new and vintage setup can be great sounding but they just sound different. Fully agree.


----------



## SX3900

Guys, here is some good old days trivia hi-fi pricing info so you compare to today's modern gear stuff:
  
 Purchased my Pioneer Silver face SX-3800 (60-Watts) at Best Products for $296.97  10-3-1981
 Pioneer Turntable PL-300 for $109.00 with AT140LC cart. $69.95 at Best Products 11-30-1981
 Pioneer AIRA 70 3-Way Speakers $79.95/ea at Best Products 11-30-1981  Monster Size Cabinets
 AKAI GX-F51 2-head Cassette Deck $264.00 at Highland Warehouse  10-30-1982
 Radio Shack Mach One Speakers $69.97/ea  2-6-1982 Monster Size Cabinets
 Polk Subwoofer LF-14 for $289.00 at Pacific Stereo  8/11/1984
 Finally the killer, SX-3900 (120-Watts) at Best Products for $593.97  1-5-1982  One of the last ones hidden in the store's back storage area.
 As a reference, Skylab purchased the SX-3900, look at his purchased price vs. when I purchased it.
 Going back to my point, supply vs. demand. SX-3900 has been going way up in pricing then bottoms out. Back in Oct/Nov timeframe the SX-3900 was going for +$1400, now that the demand is not so great, it is now down to the $700-$900 range. Some are in the $600 range for an average chipped wood sides and scratched up receiver.
 This Pioneer stuff is very interesting it you look at it in the long term.
 Just my thoughts.


----------



## kid vic

monsterzero said:


> hence the question...so far the only amps I own are a Schiit Magni Uber for 32 and 40 ohm headphones,and my Woo Wa2 for my T1s.
> 
> I was looking into getting a pair of Alpha Dogs and Mike at Woo informed me neither of my amps would work well with those...so my thoughts are instead of buying a dedicated headphone amp for each and every headphone I plan to buy,why not give some old school receivers a try....not to mention how beautiful some of them are.
> 
> So 40 WPC is plenty for planars,yeah?


 
 I run my Hifiman HE-500's straight off of the speaker tabs of a 35WPC amp and I haven't had a single problem.


----------



## Monsterzero

So I picked up a Sansui 881,with some minor wood cosmetic issues for 125.00,guy delivered to my door.

 Plugged in my Beyer T1s...HOLY CRAP!!!!! I couldnt get the volume knob turned past 20% before it was too loud!

 Not to mention the bass response I have never heard out of these headphones when I have driven them with my Woo WA2!

 I need to get it over to the vintage stereo guy to have it completely gone thru and then I will do an A/B against my WA2 for soundstage etc..,but as is,it totally exceeded my expectations

 I am a firm believer in vintage receivers as headphone amps now!


----------



## SX3900

Amen Brother Amen....


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> So I picked up a Sansui 881,with some minor wood cosmetic issues for 125.00,guy delivered to my door.
> 
> 
> Plugged in my Beyer T1s...HOLY CRAP!!!!! I couldnt get the volume knob turned past 20% before it was too loud!
> ...



Nice! Good for you man. You gotta love that 70's Sansui sound...


----------



## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> I am a firm believer in vintage receivers as headphone amps now!


 
  
  
 Hate to say it but ... we told you so!


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> So I picked up a Sansui 881,with some minor wood cosmetic issues for 125.00,guy delivered to my door.
> 
> 
> Plugged in my Beyer T1s...HOLY CRAP!!!!! I couldnt get the volume knob turned past 20% before it was too loud!
> ...



Port Jefferson? If so it popped up on a Craigslist search for me. I'm always on the lookout for an Eight Deluxe


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Port Jefferson? If so it popped up on a Craigslist search for me. I'm always on the lookout for an Eight Deluxe


 

 yep thats the one...looks much better in person than in photos...just gotta find those two silver caps that are missing


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> yep thats the one...looks much better in person than in photos...just gotta find those two silver caps that are missing



Did you try fleabay? People part out these receivers all the time


----------



## Monsterzero

yep there is a guy on there from Islip that sells a ton of parts,dropped him a message about an hour ago,waiting to hear back from him.

 Messaged two european Sansui parts dealers last night,but neither had them


----------



## Monsterzero

Ive read a lot of good things about the Eight Deluxe,now that I know that these things def can be nice headphone amps I might look into one of those down the road too.I figured for 125.00 to get my vintage receiver feet wet it was a good buy to get me started


----------



## SirMarc

Before I knew better, I saw one locally for like 100 bucks and passed because I didn't like the plastic buttons! Ugh, I kick myself in ass all the time over that one lol. I do love my 9090, but I want to grab one of those too. I've heard alot of people say they like it better than the 9090


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Ive read a lot of good things about the Eight Deluxe,now that I know that these things def can be nice headphone amps I might look into one of those down the road too.I figured for 125.00 to get my vintage receiver feet wet it was a good buy to get me started



No doubt, I've heard the 881 is a very nice sounding receiver


----------



## roadcykler

For those of you across the pond (or anywhere else if you're willing to pay a lot of shipping) someone has a very nice Kenwood Trio KA-907 up for bids.I expect it will go for a lot of pounds sterling.
  
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172154027207?ssPageName=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


----------



## jnorris

I have a soft spot in my head for those '70s Kenwoods, having owned a bunch of their upper end integrated amps and tuners.  I liked them much better than the Pioneers of the day.


----------



## BucketInABucket

The Harman Kardon 930 consistently beats out my other receivers so now it's pretty much the only one I use. Thinking of upgrading it now but not sure where to start...


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> The Harman Kardon 930 consistently beats out my other receivers so now it's pretty much the only one I use. Thinking of upgrading it now but not sure where to start...


 
 Your speakers, find a place for them, and when you think you placed them in the best place, try to find better place
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 You wont believe what changes it can make.
 Actually couple days ago I decided to highten my speaker because i had a feeling it will help the tweeters to "breathe",
 like i did with my KLH. And i did not expect the massive changes in the sound, I thought that I could get this changes only by getting better and much more expensive amp.
 Oh and it costed me 0$ as you can see


----------



## SpeakerBox

bucketinabucket said:


> The Harman Kardon 930 consistently beats out my other receivers so now it's pretty much the only one I use. Thinking of upgrading it now but not sure where to start...


 
  
 Had an HK 330A in high school.  Wish I had kept it.  May end up looking for another just for the nostalgic value.


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> Your speakers, find a place for them, and when you think you placed them in the best place, try to find better place
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Still don't have the room for that, unfortunately. The best setup I've found at the moment is with them fairly near me sitting on sorbothane hemispheres to isolate them from the table. I expect the sound of my setup to improve tremendously when I move to a new place as I'll have enough space to push the speakers way back away from my desk by then.
  


speakerbox said:


> Had an HK 330A in high school.  Wish I had kept it.  May end up looking for another just for the nostalgic value.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Saturday evening again.
  
 Tonight is Basketball, wings & local beer.
  
 For non NCAA fans here is another stack, not Pioneer this time.
  
 All working, but no restoration yet.
  
 r2

  
 Bottom to top:
 RA 2030 Integrated Amp 80w/ch (min. RMS both channels driven into 8 ohms from 20 to 20,000 Hz). DC circuitry. Class AB operation.
 RT 2100 Tuner with analogue & digital tuning
 RE 2000 EQ
 RB 2000 Amp - 120w/ch (min. RMS both channels driven into 8 ohms from 20 to 20,000 Hz). DC circuitry. Class AB operation. Duel mono.
 RC 2000 Pre Amp
 RT 2000 Tuner
 RE 2000 EQ
 RD 2200M Cassette Deck
 RD 2200 Cassette Deck
  
 Edit: Added Item Names


----------



## Oregonian

Nice Rotel stack!   Dang, you've got enough silver faced equipment to satisfy just about any vintage freak!  Awesome stuff bud!


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Still don't have the room for that, unfortunately. The best setup I've found at the moment is with them fairly near me sitting on sorbothane hemispheres to isolate them from the table. I expect the sound of my setup to improve tremendously when I move to a new place as I'll have enough space to push the speakers way back away from my desk by then.


 
 I see you got the K7XX, i got the Q701 and its connected into the speakers output of my amp, and its the best amping i have ever heard with the 701.
 You should try it as well (you got 2 cables right?)
  

 (not my picture btw)


----------



## buson160man

headphones1999 said:


> I see you got the K7XX, i got the Q701 and its connected into the speakers output of my amp, and its the best amping i have ever heard with the 701.
> You should try it as well (you got 2 cables right?)
> 
> 
> (not my picture btw)


 
  You should hear the 701s being plugged into the headphone jack of a concept 16.5 . I have never heard the 701s with the type of authority and just about everything else that I get with my concept receiver . It plays so loud and dynamic that I dare only to play it no louder than the nine oclock position of the stepped attenuator . I am sure I would probably smoke them if I played it much above that position . Plus I would probably go deaf as well this puppy plays really seriously loud at nine oclock on the volume control .I have heard no dedicated headphone amp that can match it .Including some really serious esoteric designs .


----------



## buson160man

headphones1999 said:


> I see you got the K7XX, i got the Q701 and its connected into the speakers output of my amp, and its the best amping i have ever heard with the 701.
> You should try it as well (you got 2 cables right?)
> 
> 
> (not my picture btw)


 
  You should hear the 701s played through the jack of a concept 16.5. I have never heard the 701s with kind of authority and awesome dynamics that the 16.5 provides. I have never heard any dedicated headphone amps that can even come close including some very esoteric ones .


----------



## headphones1999

buson160man said:


> You should hear the 701s being plugged into the headphone jack of a concept 16.5 . I have never heard the 701s with the type of authority and just about everything else that I get with my concept receiver . It plays so loud and dynamic that I dare only to play it no louder than the nine oclock position of the stepped attenuator . I am sure I would probably smoke them if I played it much above that position . Plus I would probably go deaf as well this puppy plays really seriously loud at nine oclock on the volume control .I have heard no dedicated headphone amp that can match it .Including some really serious esoteric designs .


 
 If i plug my 701 to the speakers output I never go above 7-8 oclock while the computer is usually on 10%-30% (i have to put the amp on 7 and above because there is problem with the balance at lower volumes)
 And I don't think that there is a concept 16.5 in our country, and if there is its extremely rare...


----------



## kid vic

monsterzero said:


> So I picked up a Sansui 881,with some minor wood cosmetic issues for 125.00,guy delivered to my door.
> 
> Plugged in my Beyer T1s...HOLY CRAP!!!!! I couldnt get the volume knob turned past 20% before it was too loud!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the fold! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






r2muchstuff said:


> Saturday evening again.
> 
> Tonight is Basketball, wings & local beer.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If I were you, I'd probably break my own legs so I would have an excuse to never leave all that beautiful gear! 
 Do you have a clone to maximize potential listening time?


headphones1999 said:


> I see you got the K7XX, i got the Q701 and its connected into the speakers output of my amp, and its the best amping i have ever heard with the 701.
> You should try it as well (you got 2 cables right?)
> 
> 
> (not my picture btw)


 
  
 How do you have that setup? Did you just cut the plug off and use bare wire or did you reterminate it to balanced?
  


headphones1999 said:


> If i plug my 701 to the speakers output I never go above 7-8 oclock while the computer is usually on 10%-30% (i have to put the amp on 7 and above because there is problem with the balance at lower volumes)
> And I don't think that there is a concept 16.5 in our country, and if there is its extremely rare...


 
 Yeah, that would be a boatload of power into any set of headphones!


----------



## buson160man

headphones1999 said:


> If i plug my 701 to the speakers output I never go above 7-8 oclock while the computer is usually on 10%-30% (i have to put the amp on 7 and above because there is problem with the balance at lower volumes)
> And I don't think that there is a concept 16.5 in our country, and if there is its extremely rare...


 

 True the concept was only marketed in California and some stores in the Midwestern united states .Plus they are rare these days and are getting a bit pricey these days on the used market .


----------



## headphones1999

kid vic said:


> Welcome to the fold!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You just need to cut of the plug, nothing more.


----------



## Monsterzero

I have newb question:

 I have ran into some receivers that do not have an "AUX" input
 If I wanted to connect a CD player and a DAP what input(s)could I use,if any?


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> I have newb question:
> 
> 
> I have ran into some receivers that do not have an "AUX" input
> ...



Tape 1 or 2 input


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Tape 1 or 2 input


 

 That was my semi educated guess,thank you


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> That was my semi educated guess,thank you



Yup, no problem


----------



## Monsterzero

Sorry,but I have to get this off of my chest....
  
 As yall know,I recently picked up a vintage Sansui 881 receiver for the sole purpose of having something SS to drive my Beyer T1s. For giggles I plugged my AD2000s(original,not the "X") in and WOW! I have never heard a headphone's sound signature change so much!
  
 It went from a fast,but hollow sounding decent headphone to...get ready for it....a full bodied mid-bass MONSTER! (and no I havent been drinking or taking drugs)
  
 On Queen's "King Rat" Roger Taylor's toms went across my skull with a very meaty thud-thud-thud..........Im kinda shocked im typing these words TBH.
  
 Pretty much any track I tried(except for a few really poorly mastered 60s pop)had a very tactile mid bass thump,without detracting from any aspect of the rest of the sound.

 For anyone who isnt familiar with the ATH AD2000 you can read here about it....its quite a polarizing headphone.
  
 My system goes Sony HAPs1>Sansui 881 headphone out>headphone of choice.
 This receiver will drive my T1s wonderfully with 80% of the volume headroom to spare.Im so blown away Im selling my Woo Audio WA2...there I said it!
   
The best part of this whole unexpected audio nirvana is I picked this receiver off of CL for 125.00 delivered to my door!

 The AD2000+Sansui 881($460.00) is now my favorite combo,totally smoking T1+WA2($2400.00)


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Sorry,but I have to get this off of my chest....
> 
> 
> As yall know,I recently picked up a vintage Sansui 881 receiver for the sole purpose of having something SS to drive my Beyer T1s. For giggles I plugged my AD2000s(original,not the "X") in and WOW! I have never heard a headphone's sound signature change so much!
> ...



Nice!


----------



## headphones1999

makes me want to get a per of those audio technica, i really like the look of those headphones as well 
  
 what you describe there reminds me the first time i plugged my q701 to the kenwood KA405, hell i think i had too much bass, and we are talking about the Q701 
 have fun mate


----------



## Oregonian

Great aha moment realization, monsterzero! I can relate............
  
 Anyone else running HE-6's out of the speaker taps of a vintage amp?  I had a modded (Vegan pads, open grill mod, Lohb suspension pad) pair for a little over a year, ran them out of the Spec taps with incredible results.  Had a period of temporary insanity and sold them, thinking I would prefer the new Ether that was coming out (don't ask............I can't understand it either). 
  
 Long story short, didn't buy Ether after auditioning them (too light on the bass no matter how I drove them), and got an HD800 instead, which sounded great and had excellent bass out of the Spec system.  Recently was toying with the idea of getting back into the HE-6 game and found a guy that traded with me for my HD800 - I am back to heavenly *visceral* bass, amazing sound in general and can offer this - if you've never heard the HE-6 out of speaker taps of a powerhouse amp/receiver, you haven't lived. 
  
 I made notes during my first ownership of the HE-6 (I keep a journal of sorts for all 50ish of the headphones I've owned or auditioned) and read the entry - "out of the head sound, perfect highs, deepest bass I could imagine".  Still feel the same - I've done all the same mods as well as refined them a bit - taped the Vegan pads to the cups, inserted a felt pad inside the pads to reduce reflections, added a few small patches of 40 duro Sorbothane under the grill (pic below) and will soon be doing the Blutack mod (tiny bead of it around the driver capsule to seal it off for even better bass, which I had done on my HE-400 with noticeable results).   This headphone out of the Pioneer Spec taps is endgame for me.  Now to decide if I keep the Dharma - love it but I can't see giving it much head time. 
  
 This thread was the impetus for my vintage addiction - thanks to Skylab, Sir Marc and many others - and the HE-6 is the new addition to the realization that headphones could sound better than I've dreamed possible.  Between the vintage amps I own, the HE-6 and my speakers, it's a privilege to be able to experience music at it's best.  I feel fortunate to have found this thread as well as the pioneers (no pun intended) who found the HE-6 and had the courage to hook it up to the speaker taps.


----------



## SirMarc

oregonian said:


> Great aha moment realization, monsterzero! I can relate............
> 
> Anyone else running HE-6's out of the speaker taps of a vintage amp?  I had a modded (Vegan pads, open grill mod, Lohb suspension pad) pair for a little over a year, ran them out of the Spec taps with incredible results.  Had a period of temporary insanity and sold them, thinking I would prefer the new Ether that was coming out (don't ask............I can't understand it either).
> 
> ...



Very nice man!


----------



## terry parr

hey, *monsterzero*;  it's discoveries like this that make this hobby (with the mis-spent money and mis-spent time on other gear that just didn't scratch the itch)  worth it, eh?
  
  
  congratulations!  i can tell you're enjoying your newfound combo.  
  
  
 myself, i prefer a more neutral-sounding headphone (with no marked "mid-bass hump", as i listen mainly to acoustic bass in jazz, and modern, acoustic small group singer-songwriter type stuff).  and, i have a polarizing headphone, too.   the k-701.   and, i have an (austrian-made) k-702 on the way.  i just really appreciate the sound signature of a well run-in and properly amped akg "k-series" phone. 
  
 the two 70's era receivers that i have both run the 701's without complaint.  these vintage amps allow these phones to sound in such a way that they were voiced and intended to sound when these headphones were first designed.  (or, darned close to it, i believe).
  
 my h/p set-up STILL may not be quite your cup of tea.  and your set-up may not quite exactly be mine, either.  that's cool.   
  
 but, i can share in your joy right now, man.  i've felt that same initial excitement when you FINALLY feel like you've "hit on something" that might be a cure for "upgrade-itis", for a while. now you can settle-in and really enjoy the music without constantly thinking about making an equipment change.  but, when you do, it'll be a well-thought, carefully considered (and more informed) one.
  
 what you're describing is the payoff to some failed trial-and-error!  (welcome to the club).
  
 enjoy!


----------



## terry parr

*oregonian*, i would describe as "visceral" the bass response of my lcd-3's with the phones just plugged into the h/p jack!
  
 you want to feel your rear molars vibrate back-and-forth?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   just kidding.
  
  
 i'm getting ready before too long to try the lcd-3's straight out of the speaker taps of one of my receivers (but, considering that i'm not a big fan of the sound signature of these phones to begin with, i'm going into the experiment with one eyebrow raised).
  
 call me crazy, but my k-701 is my (much) more enjoyable phone, over the (dark, wooly-sounding) lcd-3.  great, low-extending, textured, tonally-accurate (as far as i can tell) bass response.  (but, at the EXPENSE of well-integrated, more faithfully reproduced mids and highs).
  
 the audeze 3 is an over-rated h/p in my opinion, and the sound sig as a whole is not to my liking.  it usually comes back off after just one tune, then i'm back to the 701.
  
 but, the fact that all of us like different things makes the world (and this headphone hobby) a more interesting place.  one man's meat is another man's poison.
  
 i might adjust my attitude once i hear how the 3's sound directly out of the speaker taps.  (kinda have my doubts.  i think a planar h/p pretty much "is what it is.")   but, we'll see.


----------



## Monsterzero

terry parr said:


> hey, *monsterzero*;  it's discoveries like this that make this hobby (with the mis-spent money and mis-spent time on other gear that just didn't scratch the itch)  worth it, eh?
> 
> 
> congratulations!  i can tell you're enjoying your newfound combo.
> ...


 

 Thanks,

 I wouldnt call what I heard as amid bass hump( tho thats what it might be) I have forever been searching for a headphone that allowed me to feel drums and electric bass....Ive tried LCD2s and HD650s both of which are recommended for rock and metal by some,and frankly I didnt like either.To me both sounded like it had a "hump" and too slow for faster music.

 The AD2000 is providing this bass with no effort,no congestion,while maintaining its best traits,vocals and speed.Its kinda like a refined Grado with soundstage...and all of a sudden MEAT!

 Loving it.


----------



## terry parr

cool!  that's what it's all about, man.  loving it.
  
 my relatively modest h/p rig would no doubt take a back seat to quite a few of the rigs that people here on this very thread have.
  
 but, for me, right now, i think i've finally found a set-up that i really enjoy and look foreward to listening to (without constantly finding fault with it). i'm listening to music, rather than being focused and obsessed with the equipment all the time.    
  
 sounds like you're enjoying the same experience.
  
 cheers!
  
  
 -terry.


----------



## buson160man

terry parr said:


> *oregonian*, i would describe as "visceral" the bass response of my lcd-3's with the phones just plugged into the h/p jack!
> 
> you want to feel your rear molars vibrate back-and-forth?
> 
> ...


 

  Funny I feel somewhat the same way about the akg 701s . I have a pair of LCD 2 v2 phones with a aftermarket cord .While they do sound good I have to say the k701 has noticeably better  sound stage and is overall the more honest presentation that is closer to the original event. I have had my 701s for a long time and I find myself going back to them not only because of their accurate presentation of the original event but also because of the long term comfort they  provide . The LCD 2 just is way too heavy and clamps way too much on your head . Sometimes I feel like I have my head in a vise after a few songs I want to take them off . The akg 701 I feel gets a bad rap from a lot of people . They can sound a bit congested when driven by less than stellar amplification . They do like power and really open up when driven by amplifiers with sufficient drive . They are a bit demanding of the amplification they are used with . It is a hungry headphone but when driven properly they deliver excellent sound with a very natural sounding presentation .I agree with you about the k701 and its abilities .


----------



## terry parr

yeah, *buson*, i think that a lot of people give up on the akg k-series phones too early (by not being patient enough to allow the phones to settle-down and come into their own).  with my 701's, after that initial (and noticeable change in sound after the break-in), then not much additional change was ever noted.
  
 but, i try to remember too, that some people STILL wouldn't like the more analytical, open, and mid-range-centric sound of the 701's. (some people just prefer a more warmer-sounding (or even "lush"-sounding headphone).  and, those people are enjoying their gear no less than i am. it's all good.  a lot of what is talked about on head-fi (and the equipment comparisons) comes down to personal preferences.
  
 one thing i've thought about though by having a 701 being fed with either of two vintage receivers i have now (both with excellent headphone outs) is that if you have a h/p that tends more toward a brighter sound, you can always dial that treble back just a touch as both of my 70's era receivers have tone controls.  you can dial back the upper frequencies on these phones if some recordings were mixed a little too hot.
  
 but, if i listen to the audeze phones (on either receiver), neither one can ADD midrange and high frequencies that i feel like i'm missing with these planar phones.  the low-frequencies in the audeze phones just overwhelm the overall sound signature.  to use a photographic analogy, it's akin to an under-exposed photograph.  yes, i can appreciate those deep, rich colors.  but, don't have the photo be overly-saturated with this type of look ALL THE TIME!   i'd like to see those more subtle hues and lighter tones as well.  
  
 having said all that, neither receiver can force the 701's to reproduce the bass texture and impact that the lcd-3's are capable of.  this is called "giving the devil his due."   (although, believe it or not, as far as bass extension, the 701's are capable of going down pretty deep).  but, in a side-by-side comparison, it's obvious that the 701's trail-off a bit sooner in the lower registers than the lcd-3's will.  past a certain point in the lower frequencies, the 701's imply what's there, whereas the lcd-3's will still give you more of a tactile "feel" to it. 
  
 but, that's a compromise that i'm willing to make as i appreciate what the 701 brings to the table, overall.  in total.
  
 (more than what i appreciate in the lcd-3, as a whole.  in total). 
  
 but all this is simply one man's opinion, which reflects his taste and preferences.   your mileage may vary.  and that's cool, too.  
  
 if there was one "best" headphone, amp, and source combination,  then that's the set-up that we'd all be listening to, i guess!
  
 (and wouldn't that be boring!)


----------



## Benny-x

terry parr said:


> but, for me, right now, i think i've finally found a set-up that i really enjoy and look foreward to listening to (without constantly finding fault with it). i'm listening to music, rather than being focused and obsessed with the equipment all the time.


 
  
 Though I haven't crossed over to vintage yet as I'm still amp+right-price hunting, I've recently come to a similar enjoyment point these past couple days. I had a chance at getting some Pioneer SE Master1 headphones for a good price, so I went for it. I really didn't know what to expect sound wise, but dollar wise I had high expectations due to their cost. They took some time to burn in and didn't have the bottom end filled in enough when I first listened, but just these past 2-3 days on some new gear as well (LH Labs Pulse X Infinity 2.0 + UpTone Regen + LH Labs LPS4 powering both the Infinity and Regen), it's all sounding amazing. Like addictive amazing.
  
 I'm just hunting through my collection and VERY surprisingly, I'm not clicking on different tracks and different albums the whole time. I'm just finding an album letting things run thought and really enjoying the music that's coming up. There seems to be some real synergy here and it's probably the best I've heard since I started chasing the audiophile dream 7 years ago. 
  
 I've still got to nab a nice vintage amp and have a listen, though. Maybe later this year I'll be able to line that up.


----------



## Benny-x

oregonian said:


> Great aha moment realization, monsterzero! I can relate............
> 
> Anyone else running HE-6's out of the speaker taps of a vintage amp?  I had a modded (Vegan pads, open grill mod, Lohb suspension pad) pair for a little over a year, ran them out of the Spec taps with incredible results.  Had a period of temporary insanity and sold them, thinking I would prefer the new Ether that was coming out (don't ask............I can't understand it either).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on the return and the enjoyment. When we talked before it sounded like our listening tastes might be similar, so this is good news for me too.
  
 Do you know whether you've got the 4-screw or 6-screw HE-6s? The 4-screw models were made up to 2011, the 6-screws are newer production ones. I'm trying to put together some feedback and find out which one to put on my hit list.


----------



## terry parr

i'm doing much the same, *Benny-x*, as i'm doing a lot less skipping around from track-to-track, and listening to larger sections of entire albums.  i've always listened to complete albums, anyway whenever i get a new one, but now i'm appreciating the musicianship and the recording techniques even on those songs that i might not be crazy about, just because my equipment set-up is sounding so much better than it ever has before.
  
 it's making (or allowing me) to enjoy the music more!  i've discovered this too, just like you.
  
 even though my current set-up is not absolute "end-game" (i'm not afraid that what i have now will inspire much envy among too many members here on this thread), but the gear that i have now is a very comfortable and enjoyable "weigh-station."
  
  
 hey, definitely keep the idea of auditioning some vintage amp / receiver pieces on your radar!  reading other peoples' opinions can only take you but so far.
  
 by all means include some vintage pieces in your future comparative-listening tests.   listen to some different combination set-ups and then let your own ears decide.
  
 cheers!


----------



## headphones1999

have to join the 701 hype here, 
 Before i got into vintage i had an amp called Lovely Cube which suppose to be a very good match for the 701, and i was really happy with it, until i heard the LCD2 which i got blown away by it sound, i returned to my house promising myself that I will buy them soon, my 701 sounded so bad compare to them at that time...
 after I got the amp i have now i had a chance to hear headphones like HE560, HD800, HE400I, and the LCD2 again, they all sounded nice, but they were just not good enough to spend money on (expect the HD800)
  
 Quote:


terry parr said:


> but, for me, right now, i think i've finally found a set-up that i really enjoy and look foreward to listening to (without constantly finding fault with it). i'm listening to music, rather than being focused and obsessed with the equipment all the time.


 
 exactly how Im now with my 701, though im still obsessed with equipment.


----------



## Oregonian

benny-x said:


> Congrats on the return and the enjoyment. When we talked before it sounded like our listening tastes might be similar, so this is good news for me too.
> 
> Do you know whether you've got the 4-screw or 6-screw HE-6s? The 4-screw models were made up to 2011, the 6-screws are newer production ones. I'm trying to put together some feedback and find out which one to put on my hit list.


 

 They are 6 screw units.  Very late production from what I can tell - they looked almost new when they arrived and unmolested...............till I did all the mods in the first hour.  Listened to them stock for about 3 songs and realized the open grill mod is for real..............


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Is it possible to add a PRE-OUT For the SX-3700 and SA-7700 or to any amp that don't have a PRE-OUT so it can control the volume for the  separate Power Amp?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

headphones1999 said:


> bucketinabucket said:
> 
> 
> > Still don't have the room for that, unfortunately. The best setup I've found at the moment is with them fairly near me sitting on sorbothane hemispheres to isolate them from the table. I expect the sound of my setup to improve tremendously when I move to a new place as I'll have enough space to push the speakers way back away from my desk by then.
> ...


 
 This i want to try however i'am concern of frying my Q's drivers.


----------



## headphones1999

i luvmusic 2 said:


> This i want to try however i'am concern of frying my Q's drivers.


 
 mah, the Q can be use as little speakers (discovored that "thanks" to my friend)
 anyway i dont think there is any problem doing so, just be careful with the volume knob.
  
 worst case you buy new pair, they are not that expensive


----------



## i luvmusic 2

headphones1999 said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > This i want to try however i'am concern of frying my Q's drivers.
> ...


 
 Holly Crap you aren't kidding this thing sound really good


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Thanks,
> 
> 
> I wouldnt call what I heard as amid bass hump( tho thats what it might be) I have forever been searching for a headphone that allowed me to feel drums and electric bass....Ive tried LCD2s and HD650s both of which are recommended for rock and metal by some,and frankly I didnt like either.To me both sounded like it had a "hump" and too slow for faster music.
> ...



We may enjoy different sound signatures, but my 9090 with HD650's sounds ridiculously good, especially with vinyl. If you know anyone who has them, try them again out of the Sansui and see what you think


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> We may enjoy different sound signatures, but my 9090 with HD650's sounds ridiculously good, especially with vinyl. If you know anyone who has them, try them again out of the Sansui and see what you think


 

 admittedly I didnt try the 650s thru my Sansui,but after hearing what it did to my AD2000s, which are known for having no mid-bass whatsoever,I cant even think what a 650 would sound like..


----------



## frahengeo

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Is it possible to add a PRE-OUT For the SX-3700 and SA-7700 or to any amp that don't have a PRE-OUT so it can control the volume for the  separate Power Amp?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 The pre-out on receivers, and integrated amps is intended to give you the option to connect a separate power amp (typically a more powerful amp).  The receiver/integrated amp then becomes the pre-amp/control amp.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> admittedly I didnt try the 650s thru my Sansui,but after hearing what it did to my AD2000s, which are known for having no mid-bass whatsoever,I cant even think what a 650 would sound like..:basshead:



Smooth as silk, with no veil and tight punchy bass and awesome soundstage width and depth. I love the combo


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Smooth as silk, with no veil and tight punchy bass and awesome soundstage width and depth. I love the combo


 

 Id like to get a 9090 someday...super jelly!

 I think however my next purchase will be a Marantz to mix it up a bit


----------



## i luvmusic 2

frahengeo said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Is it possible to add a PRE-OUT For the SX-3700 and SA-7700 or to any amp that don't have a PRE-OUT so it can control the volume for the  separate Power Amp?
> ...


 
  I would like to hookup a power amp into my SX-3700/SA-7700 but these two unit does not have a pre out that is why i would like to know if it is possible to add(hack the unit)a pre out jack to the SX-3700 and SA-7700.


----------



## frahengeo

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I would like to hookup a power amp into my SX-3700/SA-7700 but these two unit does not have a pre out that is why i would like to know if it is possible to add(hack the unit)a pre out jack to the SX-3700 and SA-7700.




Sorry I mis-understood. Installing pre-outs doesn't sound very economical never mind feasible.


----------



## Oregonian

It's like we have this secret little society here...............that the "others" just won't buy in to!  Too bad.............. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 for them!


----------



## Oregonian

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I would like to hookup a power amp into my SX-3700/SA-7700 but these two unit does not have a pre out that is why i would like to know if it is possible to add(hack the unit)a pre out jack to the SX-3700 and SA-7700.


 

 Probably worth finding one that has pre-outs.  Most of the higher power units have that capability.


----------



## Mechans1

Or g-d forbid you use a real pre amp. They are rare but exist, not sure which model would be good for your power amps.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

OK Thanks guys!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

and gals?maybe.......


----------



## buson160man

frahengeo said:


> The pre-out on receivers, and integrated amps is intended to give you the option to connect a separate power amp (typically a more powerful amp).  The receiver/integrated amp then becomes the pre-amp/control amp.


 

  The metal jumpers that they used for the pre to amp in connections back then are not exactly the best way to pass signal . Changing them out for a decent interconnect can make a noticeable difference in how the receiver sounds . Thus improving the sound of the receiver without springing for a new amp .


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> It's like we have this secret little society here...............that the "others" just won't buy in to!  Too bad..............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 yeah....I was thinking about that this evening...retailers wont tell you about it cuz they wanna sell new shiny gear,and folks in the know dont want to drive the price of vintage gear up higher than they already are.

 Just got done listening to "After Midnight" JJ Cale,and "Promises" E.C. and I swear I was listening to liquid honey.


----------



## Monsterzero

Does anyone think my headphone out can drive an HE-6 or 500,or is that pushing it?

 Dont wanna try the speaker out route,I will blow something up!


----------



## Hutnicks

monsterzero said:


> Does anyone think my headphone out can drive an HE-6 or 500,or is that pushing it?


 

 There's no reason not to try it. Really a lot of the older stuff had power to spare as headphones had massive impedance back in the day.


----------



## Monsterzero

well I dont actually own either of those power hungry beasts,and dont wanna get one if its gonna require "alternate amping solutions" to drive


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> We may enjoy different sound signatures, but my 9090 with HD650's sounds ridiculously good, especially with vinyl. If you know anyone who has them, try them again out of the Sansui and see what you think


 
  
 Havan't tried that yet, will do that as soon as my 9090 gets back from recapping. I love the HD650, one of my keepers!
  


oregonian said:


> It's like we have this secret little society here...............that the "others" just won't buy in to!  Too bad..............
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ssssst! Quiet, they might hear us!


----------



## Hutnicks

monsterzero said:


> well I dont actually own either of those power hungry beasts,and dont wanna get one if its gonna require "alternate amping solutions" to drive


 

 You can check the specs on the headphone jack most user and repair manuals are available online and will have the output voltages. Driving from the speaker or pre outs will guarantee enough power as well. It's something I would only do if I have to. I own a fair number of orthodynamic phones and even the headphone jack on the dinky little Technics SA 104 40 watt receiver will drive them to ear splitting levels.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Havan't tried that yet, will do that as soon as my 9090 gets back from recapping. I love the HD650, one of my keepers!
> 
> 
> Ssssst! Quiet, they might hear us!



Mine's been gone a month and a half. The wait sucks. I should be getting it back soon though. How long is yours going to take?


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Mine's been gone a month and a half. The wait sucks. I should be getting it back soon though. How long is yours going to take?


 
  
 Not sure, I brought in the Aiwa, Sansui and my Infinitys alltogether. The SX-1980 I bought as well will be delivered straight to him as well today.
 What's more, he has to ship the midtones for new skins to a guy in Germany that's specialised in Infinity and then get them back before he can start on the crossovers. He can do the amps and the cabinets meanwhile though.
 As it's a bit of a long drive I'm waiting until all are finished to pick them up all at once. Won't take the shipping risk. So I'm vintageless at the moment. 
I do still have my magical Zana here.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Not sure, I brought in the Aiwa, Sansui and my Infinitys alltogether. The SX-1980 I bought as well will be delivered straight to him as well today.
> What's more, he has to ship the midtones for new skins to a guy in Germany that's specialised in Infinity and then get them back before he can start on the crossovers. He can do the amps and the cabinets meanwhile though.
> As it's a bit of a long drive I'm waiting until all are finished to pick them up all at once. Won't take the shipping risk. So I'm vintageless at the moment.
> I do still have my magical Zana here.



Yeah, I'm using my Kenwwood KR-7600 now, which sounds better than my Asgard 2, but not as nice as the 9090. The Sansui just has this holographic soundstage that the Kenwood lacks.


----------



## headphones1999

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Holly Crap you aren't kidding this thing sound really good


 





 
 Have fun with your "new" amp


----------



## headphones1999

monsterzero said:


> well I dont actually own either of those power hungry beasts,and dont wanna get one if its gonna require "alternate amping solutions" to drive


 
 your 881 is a very nice amp, I saw someone that had many sansui amps say that the 881 is as good as the sansui 8080 he got,


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> Does anyone think my headphone out can drive an HE-6 or 500,or is that pushing it?
> 
> Dont wanna try the speaker out route,I will blow something up!


 

 You won't blow up the HE-6.............or the 500.  I run both my HE-400 and HE-6 out of the speaker taps on my Pioneer Spec 2 amp (250 wpc) fed by the Spec 1 preamp and have done so for over two years now with no troubles whatsoever.  It's really the way to get the most out of all the HiFiMan 400/500/6 series from my experience.  This weekend I hooked up the 400 via the headphone out, then back to taps, and the sound difference really is quite stark. 
  
 You just have to start slowly on the volume control - like turn it all the way down, then ramp it up.  These cans really like power.


----------



## KeithEmo

The short answer is yes..... and it is relatively trivial to do so if you know what you're doing. In almost any integrated amp or receiver there are one or more points after the volume control where you can tap off a signal of the appropriate level to drive a separate power amp. In many you could actually just connect wires and a pair of audio jacks; in others you would need to use a capacitor to block DC that is present on the signal at that point; and, in some, you would need to add a simple buffer to prevent your amplifier from loading down the circuitry (we're only talking about a few dollars worth of extra circuitry - which would be easy to build). However, it's not necessarily something you should attempt unless you understand circuitry... and, especially if you aren't knowledgeable about circuit design, a schematic would be helpful. (A pro could make an educated guess, then confirm it with an oscilloscope, even without a schematic. For example, taking the signal from the wiper of the volume control potentiometer would probably work.)  
  
 Quote:


i luvmusic 2 said:


> Is it possible to add a PRE-OUT For the SX-3700 and SA-7700 or to any amp that don't have a PRE-OUT so it can control the volume for the  separate Power Amp?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Benny-x

I've been wondering about the best way to come straight off the speaker taps and still have some volume play. I don't like only having 3-4 clicks of room before it's too loud and I don't like chopping down the signal through system volume or when it's coming off the DAC as I feel it looses resolution/depth. It's funny to see you guys talking about pre-amps because that's what I was wondering about.
  
 I know there're "boxes" like the HiFiMAN one that converts speaker taps to 4 pin XLR + resistors, and that's sort of what I was thinking, a totally passive, resistor based approach. From my understanding, that should give the best sound, right? When you guys talk about the best headphone jacks on these, it's ones that're run off the same outputs as the speakers taps, just with inline resistors, right?
  
 So what I was thinking of was something like the balanced Khozmo Acoustic passive pre-amp, that's all resistor based. The balanced version is in the second picture, here.
  
 Or would the signal from the amp be too powerful to use in this location? Like it might damage the Khozmo. Usually a pre-amp is used between the DAC and the amp, to cut down the signal there vs. on the way to the "speakers"(headphones). I'm just spit-balling because I don't know how effective a resistor box like the HiFiMAN (or DIY) could be.


----------



## KeithEmo

There are several reasons why, if you're going to connect headphones to a speaker output, you want to use some sort of voltage divider. In general a speaker amplifier, which puts out a lot more power than you need, will also have a much higher noise floor than a lower-powered headphone amp. Since the noise floor on a power amp is almost always fixed, when you turn the input signal down, the signal gets quieter, but the noise floor remains where it is - which means you're listening to a relatively high noise floor. By cutting the speaker signal down with resistors, along with allowing you to use more of the range of the volume control, you are also reducing the noise floor - often significantly.
  
 There are really only two ways of cutting down the signal level: transformers and resistors. While transformers can do a pretty good job, good quality transformers tend to be quite expensive, and, in this application, usually don't perform nearly as well as the much cheaper resistors.
  
 The only down-side is that, by putting one or more resistors between the output of the amplifier and the headphones, you are reducing the damping factor (you're raising the output impedance of the amplifier as "seen" by the headphones). How much you lower the damping factor will depend on the impedance of your headphones, and on your choice of resistor values. (This is why there is usually an optimum range of resistor values depending on the impedance of your headphones and how efficient they are.) You also need to pay attention to the power ratings of the resistors you use (low value resistors can consume significant power - and may get very hot).
  
 In general, the resistance values used for the potentiometers in "passive preamps" intended for line-level applications are NOT at all appropriate for this application. If you try to use one for this purpose, there's a small chance that you could damage it, but a large chance that it simply won't work very well.
  
 A good starting point for building your own voltage divider, which will work pretty well with many "ordinary" headphones, would be to use a voltage divider using a 100 ohm resistor and a 10 ohm resistor.... (One end of the 100 ohm resistor goes to the + output of the amp, the other end is connected to one end of the 10 ohm resistor, and the other end of the 10 ohm resistor is connected to ground; you then connect the ground on the headphones to ground, and the input on the headphones to the top of the 10 ohm resistor - where it junctions with the 100 ohm resistor. You need a separate pair of resistors for each channel. If your headphones are 50 ohms, this will reduce the level by about 12:1; the "source impedance" the headphones see will be about 9 ohms, you'll still have a damping factor of about 5 - which is OK. You can probably do this safely with 1/2 watt resistors - but one or two watt ones will run much cooler if you have the space for them.)
  
 Note that, if your resistors are going to be touching anything, then you want to choose resistors that have a MUCH higher power rating than you need. If you actually NEED 1/4 watt, even a 1/2 watt resistor may get quite hot, but a 2 watt one will run barely warm - and they don't cost much more.
  
 Quote:


benny-x said:


> I've been wondering about the best way to come straight off the speaker taps and still have some volume play. I don't like only having 3-4 clicks of room before it's too loud and I don't like chopping down the signal through system volume or when it's coming off the DAC as I feel it looses resolution/depth. It's funny to see you guys talking about pre-amps because that's what I was wondering about.
> 
> I know there're "boxes" like the HiFiMAN one that converts speaker taps to 4 pin XLR + resistors, and that's sort of what I was thinking, a totally passive, resistor based approach. From my understanding, that should give the best sound, right? When you guys talk about the best headphone jacks on these, it's ones that're run off the same outputs as the speakers taps, just with inline resistors, right?
> 
> ...


----------



## Monsterzero

headphones1999 said:


> your 881 is a very nice amp, I saw someone that had many sansui amps say that the 881 is as good as the sansui 8080 he got,


 
 Thanks,
 I really like it...granted I have only new gear to compare it to,but thus far call me a fan.
 BTW the 881 was a TOTL receiver in its day
  


oregonian said:


> You won't blow up the HE-6.............or the 500.  I run both my HE-400 and HE-6 out of the speaker taps on my Pioneer Spec 2 amp (250 wpc) fed by the Spec 1 preamp and have done so for over two years now with no troubles whatsoever.  It's really the way to get the most out of all the HiFiMan 400/500/6 series from my experience.  This weekend I hooked up the 400 via the headphone out, then back to taps, and the sound difference really is quite stark.
> 
> You just have to start slowly on the volume control - like turn it all the way down, then ramp it up.  These cans really like power.


 
 Yep,yep...I gotta do the same for my headphones already anyways...

 If I can grab a pair of these I may hit you up to walk a newb thru the process of using speaker out


----------



## buson160man

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Holly Crap you aren't kidding this thing sound really good


 

   They certainly look very smart .


----------



## Benny-x

keithemo said:


> [clipped]
> A good starting point for building your own voltage divider, which will work pretty well with many "ordinary" headphones, would be to use a voltage divider using a 100 ohm resistor and a 10 ohm resistor.... (One end of the 100 ohm resistor goes to the + output of the amp, the other end is connected to one end of the 10 ohm resistor, and the other end of the 10 ohm resistor is connected to ground; you then connect the ground on the headphones to ground, and the input on the headphones to the top of the 10 ohm resistor - where it junctions with the 100 ohm resistor. You need a separate pair of resistors for each channel. If your headphones are 50 ohms, this will reduce the level by about 12:1; the "source impedance" the headphones see will be about 9 ohms, you'll still have a damping factor of about 5 - which is OK. You can probably do this safely with 1/2 watt resistors - but one or two watt ones will run much cooler if you have the space for them.)
> [/clipped]


 
  
 Thanks a lot, Keith. You're one helpful guys around here, and it's greatly appreciated. 
  
 About the damping factor, I've read about this being a big thing in speakers and component matching, but I also read that with headphones it's less important because its effects are not totally parallel as with speakers. I don't know if there's any truth in that, what's your stance on damping factor here vs. in a full size system?
  
 I'm also wondering how this would work vs. the Khozmo passive pre-amp I linked to. You're very likely right that the Khozmo wouldn't be able to handle the higher voltage and current of the speaker amp, and rightly so being applied in a place it's not meant to go, but that approach would have let me adjust the volume right there by using many resistors. The method you mentioned would keep the box at a constant resistance and use the receiver's volume control for adjustment. Do you have a view on what would be better, imagining that the Khozmo or a box like it were built with resistors that could handle the signal off the speaker taps and not burn up?
  
 I also don't see how something like the Khozmo can do it's job and not affect the damping factor if used in a normal speaker system. It adds resistance to attentuate the volume, but wouldn't doing so affect the damping factor?


----------



## SX3900

It is good to see another SX-3700 receiver at work!
 I always love the blue power meters.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

with all 3 amps i have (SX-1500TD,SA-7700,SX-3700)the SX-3700 is the best sounding of them all.


----------



## CrocCap

benny, ive used this great website by fellow headfi member robrob, to build a couple of speaker to headphone adapters. 
https://robrobinette.com/RobinetteBox.htm
   
i have a 0db attenuation one for he-6, a 12db attenuation for t1/he-500, and a 28db attenuation one for th900.

 these also provide a safe load for the tube speaker amp i use them with.
  
 With the 32wpc tube amp, i still get some of the noise floor, but its only really noticeable if no music is playing.  I did have a combo of resistors that was basically noiseless, but the resistors would start smoking if i turned the volume up, so i live with slight noise and no smoking/distortion.
  
 With the 65wpc solid state amp, there is almost no noise floor to be heard


----------



## Luckbad

I've kinda been looking for a vintage tube amplifier for years. I was never able to find any in great condition for a reasonable price.
  
 That said, I've never actually asked in here. No idea why.
  
 What are some really solid vintage tube amps you guys would recommend?
  
 I love the crap out of my ampsandsound Mogwai for its vintage looks and sound (it even uses an old school circuit design), but I wouldn't mind a legit vintage amp to put in the living room specifically for speakers.
  
 Edit: To clarify, I'm looking for a vintage speaker tube amp under $1000, not a McIntosh or similar bonkers amp. The Mogwai is badass, I just can't afford a second ampsandsound amp for the less-used living room setup.


----------



## BucketInABucket

croccap said:


> With the 32wpc tube amp, i still get some of the noise floor, but its only really noticeable if no music is playing.  I did have a combo of resistors that was basically noiseless, but the resistors would start smoking if i turned the volume up, so i live with slight noise and no smoking/distortion.


 
 Sounds like the resistors aren't rated for a high enough power for the application. Smoke only tends to happen if a component can't handle the power passing through it


----------



## RAZRr1275

luckbad said:


> I've kinda been looking for a vintage tube amplifier for years. I was never able to find any in great condition for a reasonable price.
> 
> That said, I've never actually asked in here. No idea why.
> 
> ...


 

 The Fisher 500C might be something you're interested in. I don't know about its design specifically, but I know its old, has tubes and is very highly regarded.


----------



## tallisman

Hi everyone, I am new to the world of vintage (and this forum) and recently put a deposit on a $125 Sony STR 6065 which will be delivered next week. Today I found a SA-9900 with "make an offer" as the price. I don't think this guy really knows what he has, how much should I offer? All original internals, good cosmetic shape.


----------



## SirMarc

tallisman said:


> Hi everyone, I am new to the world of vintage (and this forum) and recently put a deposit on a $125 Sony STR 6065 which will be delivered next week. Today I found a SA-9900 with "make an offer" as the price. I don't think this guy really knows what he has, how much should I offer? All original internals, good cosmetic shape.



I've heard the 6065 is a very nice receiver, and it looks awesome. Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## Benny-x

croccap said:


> benny, ive used this great website by fellow headfi member robrob, to build a couple of speaker to headphone adapters.
> https://robrobinette.com/RobinetteBox.htm
> 
> i have a 0db attenuation one for he-6, a 12db attenuation for t1/he-500, and a 28db attenuation one for th900.
> ...


 
  
 Wow, that's an amazing read. Thanks a ton for that. I'll have to read it over in depth and see what I can do. And there's tons of pictures and colour coded diagrams. Very nice.
  
 In another thread (Little Dot Mk VI & Mk VIII Super Mods) one of the guys started making a resistor switch to adapt the amp for different headphone loads. This Robinette Box can also be done like that, but instead of having a 1/4" or Balanced, this could be adapted to have 2-3 balanced connectors and just different resistor ratings per connector. Thanks for the heads up on this.


----------



## buson160man

luckbad said:


> I've kinda been looking for a vintage tube amplifier for years. I was never able to find any in great condition for a reasonable price.
> 
> That said, I've never actually asked in here. No idea why.
> 
> ...


 

     Dynaco tube amps have usually been pretty decent tube amps that sold well over the years when they were produced. They were for the most part pretty reliable as well . They were built in large quantities so they should be easy to find on the used market . The dyna st70 is a popular amp that is easy to modify if that is your forte . If you want more power there is the dynaco  MKIII mono bloc amps which are a good way to go . But some say the best sounding tube amps dynaco made were the smaller st-35 but these only put out about 17 watts per channel which might not be enough .
    You should be able to get one of these for a very reasonable price . Plus as I mentioned they are easy to modernize to get much better performance out of them .


----------



## verde57

Anyone listening their headphones thru Yamaha C4 preamplifier?
 It's capable of 18V on the output, no IC's, made to power those old Yahama orthodynamic headphones.
 I'm interested in buying one, that's why I'm asking.


----------



## Monsterzero

So I picked up a pair Sansui SS 35 headphones on Fleabay for 14 bucks.....

 I was pleasantly surprised as to how good they sounded,deep clean bass,neutral sounding...

 But my god,I have *NEVER* worn a more uncomfortable set of headphones in my life!

 I honestly dont know how they got the vice grip that tight...felt like I had Andre The Giant trying to crush my skull...serious.

 Ten minutes was all I could take.

 These headphones could single-handedly end terrorism,just make suspects wear them for an hour...problem solved!


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> So I picked up a pair Sansui SS 35 headphones on Fleabay for 14 bucks.....
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised as to how good they sounded,deep clean bass,neutral sounding...
> 
> ...


 

 Seems they early days of headphones, comfort was the LAST thing they considered.  I have two vintage Pioneers - the Monitor which came with the SX-1050 back in 1977 that I purchased and the SE-205.  The Monitors pads are so flat it's like having two pieces of 1/4" ham up against your head..............the SE-205's are very comfy and sound good.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> So I picked up a pair Sansui SS 35 headphones on Fleabay for 14 bucks.....
> 
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised as to how good they sounded,deep clean bass,neutral sounding...
> ...



Just looked at pictures. So they sit over and on your ears? I wonder if you could retrofit more comfortable outer pads?


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Just looked at pictures. So they sit over and on your ears? I wonder if you could retrofit more comfortable outer pads?


 
this dude was selling a pair not too long ago,and claims a pad change can help with comfort.I PMd him,hoping he will answer.

 I dont know which pads I have...they seem to be leather but are as tough as a three dollar steak.

 Theyre built like a tank...and feel like it on your skull...its not simply uncomfortable,its actually painful


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> this dude was selling a pair not too long ago,and claims a pad change can help with comfort.I PMd him,hoping he will answer.
> 
> 
> I dont know which pads I have...they seem to be leather but are as tough as a three dollar steak.
> ...



Well, for 14 bucks its easy to shrug and say F it lol


----------



## Monsterzero

yep,not a large investment,but they sound very nice(all ten minutes I could stand to have them on my head),and if i can get some comfort going that would be a score


----------



## jaywillin

i think i may take the plunge and get a receiver, i've been doing a little reading, researching, and i've got a question .
 i need something on the smaller side, width 
 i've found the marantz 2010, which size wise (just over 14in) is perfect for my rack, it would have a little "breathing room"
 i need something smaller than 18in
 any thoughts ?


----------



## Oregonian

jaywillin said:


> i think i may take the plunge and get a receiver, i've been doing a little reading, researching, and i've got a question .
> i need something on the smaller side, width
> i've found the marantz 2010, which size wise (just over 14in) is perfect for my rack, it would have a little "breathing room"
> i need something smaller than 18in
> any thoughts ?




I've got a Kenwood KA-5700 integrated amp that's just under 15" wide the Pioneer SA-7500 integrated is just under 16" so you should have plenty of options.


----------



## jaywillin

thanks @Oregonian , an integrated is an option i'd thought of really, while the tuner would be nice, it would kinda secondary, as the computer is my main source,  and i could always add a tuner later
 i mainly just want to power my speakers, and have nice headphone amp, and not spend a ton ! lol


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> Well, for 14 bucks its easy to shrug and say F it lol


 
  
 Just got a pair of Sennheiser hd-555s for $33 shipped.  They already had the foam mod to 595 done (checked last night).  Sound great on both the 750 and 1250.  There are deals to be had out there!


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Just got a pair of Sennheiser hd-555s for $33 shipped.  They already had the foam mod to 595 done (checked last night).  Sound great on both the 750 and 1250.  There are deals to be had out there!



You don't find the midbass kind of bloated and loose out of your vintage gear? I have the HD598se's which are also 50 ohms, and love them out of my phone and Asgard 2, but not so much out of the 9090 or KR7600. I assumed it was a damping factor issue

Edit: sorry, they're 120 ohm, just checked. Didn't know they changed the ohms from HD5x5 to HD5x8


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> You don't find the midbass kind of bloated and loose out of your vintage gear? I have the HD598se's which are also 50 ohms, and love them out of my phone and Asgard 2, but not so much out of the 9090 or KR7600. I assumed it was a damping factor issue


 
  
 No bloated midbass or bass in general.  Very tight.  The only thing I noticed was an uptick in brightness that can be easily handled with the Pioneer tone controls.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> No bloated midbass or bass in general.  Very tight.  The only thing I noticed was an uptick in brightness that can be easily handled with the Pioneer tone controls.



Edited my post above


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> You don't find the midbass kind of bloated and loose out of your vintage gear? I have the HD598se's which are also 50 ohms, and love them out of my phone and Asgard 2, but not so much out of the 9090 or KR7600. I assumed it was a damping factor issue
> 
> Edit: sorry, they're 120 ohm, just checked. Didn't know they changed the ohms from HD5x5 to HD5x8


 
 That's a pretty big generalization dude. Most vintage gear sounds different. Sure many aren't great in some aspects, but others can blow away just about anything new or old.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> That's a pretty big generalization dude. Most vintage gear sounds different. Sure many aren't great in some aspects, but others can blow away just about anything new or old.


 
  
 I just read that most of the 555s that were shipped were 50 ohm.  I will check on mine.  Either way the the bass is very tight.


----------



## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> That's a pretty big generalization dude. Most vintage gear sounds different. Sure many aren't great in some aspects, but others can blow away just about anything new or old.



Whoa there fella, you misunderstood my post. Was only speaking of low impedance dynamic cans. My 300ohm hd650's sound heavenly out of my vintage gear


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> Whoa there fella, you misunderstood my post. Was only speaking of low impedance dynamic cans. My 300ohm hd650's sound heavenly out of my vintage gear


 
 Ok! Haha - cheers!


----------



## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> Ok! Haha - cheers!



Lol, all good man. Us vintage guys have stick together


----------



## SpeakerBox

Just measured my 555s.  50 ohms and the SX1250 grabs a hold of them and makes them obey.  They sound great!


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Just measured my 555s.  50 ohms and the SX1250 grabs a hold of them and makes them obey.  They sound great!



Cool man, maybe its just my stuff


----------



## SirMarc

sirmarc said:


> Cool man, maybe its just my stuff



It could also be the very unfair comparison of being used to how my 650's sound out the gear...


----------



## Oregonian

jaywillin said:


> thanks @Oregonian , an integrated is an option i'd thought of really, while the tuner would be nice, it would kinda secondary, as the computer is my main source,  and i could always add a tuner later
> i mainly just want to power my speakers, and have nice headphone amp, and not spend a ton ! lol


 

 You'll easily be able to find something inexpensively.  I paid $100 for the Kenwood and $150 for the SA-7500MKII (which had been recapped a couple of years prior).  These things make great headphone amps.


----------



## BucketInABucket

I just made a simple headphone adapter for the speaker taps of my Harman Kardon 930 and damn, this is a whole new experience...


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> I just made a simple headphone adapter for the speaker taps of my Harman Kardon 930 and damn, this is a whole new experience...


 
 Another happy speaker taps user, welcome


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> Another happy speaker taps user, welcome


 
 Did it because I had a spare female 6.3mm jack lying around and I was bored. Not bad for spending nothing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Also got a pair of Tannoy DTM-8s on the way; Rotel RX-802 or HK930, hmm...


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Did it because I had a spare female 6.3mm jack lying around and I was bored. Not bad for spending nothing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 nice, how is it compare to the kef?


----------



## PhoenixG

tallisman said:


> Hi everyone, I am new to the world of vintage (and this forum) and recently put a deposit on a $125 Sony STR 6065 which will be delivered next week. Today I found a SA-9900 with "make an offer" as the price. I don't think this guy really knows what he has, how much should I offer? All original internals, good cosmetic shape.


 
 I got a 6065 about 4 years ago and despite having had a number of TOTL monsters rotating through the main setup, the 6XXX series has stayed around for my other rigs. I gave the 6065 to a friend to keep it around, and replaced it with a number of 6120's, as well as a 6040, for my bedroom, tv room, and 'portable' travel rig. I just really like the sound quality and build quality that I found impossible to beat at their price point. For someone just getting started, the 6XXX series is a good way to start out with some serious quality. If you like the mcintosh sound, you'll like the 6065 series.


----------



## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> I got a 6065 about 4 years ago and despite having had a number of TOTL monsters rotating through the main setup, the 6XXX series has stayed around for my other rigs. I gave the 6065 to a friend to keep it around, and replaced it with a number of 6120's, as well as a 6040, for my bedroom, tv room, and 'portable' travel rig. I just really like the sound quality and build quality that I found impossible to beat at their price point. For someone just getting started, the 6XXX series is a good way to start out with some serious quality. If you like the mcintosh sound, you'll like the 6065 series.



What do you think of the 7065? There's one local for pretty cheap


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> nice, how is it compare to the kef?


 
 Arrives Thursday so I don't know. Should be better than the KEFs for my use case though!


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Arrives Thursday so I don't know. Should be better than the KEFs for my use case though!


 
 sounds promising 
  
 I want to buy some tannoy fullrange driver one day (but the 12"), though they are very rare at my country and heavily overpriced.


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> sounds promising
> 
> I want to buy some tannoy fullrange driver one day (but the 12"), though they are very rare at my country and heavily overpriced.


 
 I got lucky this time; scored the DTM-8s for 255 quid!


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> I got lucky this time; scored the DTM-8s for 255 quid!


 
 dont use the word score please X_X
 I almost scored infinity kappa 9A for 120$ less then a week ago that only needed some new mids (that cost 250$ and thats it), i could have them perfecly working, some things happened and they are gone, you can imgine how i feel right now...
  
 Anyway I got to tell you something, arent you a bit rushing from one piece of equipment to another?


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone know what parts are needed to repair/recap Concept receivers,while maintaining Concept sound?Concept only?

 I have a guy out here in NY who does vintage stereo repair,but has never done Concepts before as they were a West Coast entity.

 He told me not to get one because he didnt have Concept parts in stock.


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> dont use the word score please X_X
> I almost scored infinity kappa 9A for 120$ less then a week ago that only needed some new mids (that cost 250$ and thats it), i could have them perfecly working, some things happened and they are gone, you can imgine how i feel right now...
> 
> Anyway I got to tell you something, arent you a bit rushing from one piece of equipment to another?


 
 Sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that must hurt
  
 And nah, I only have 2 receivers that I plan to use, the Rotel RX-802 and the Harman Kardon 930, and speakers to pair with each. I do have a wishlist but I don't really plan on buying anything in the near future.


----------



## PhoenixG

sirmarc said:


> What do you think of the 7065? There's one local for pretty cheap


 
 I never ventured into the 7xxx series. They were about 5 years newer and reflected a shift towards a more consumer market. The specs are about the same but the build quality is a little lower, especially when it comes to shielding.


----------



## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> I never ventured into the 7xxx series. They were about 5 years newer and reflected a shift towards a more consumer market. The specs are about the same but the build quality is a little lower, especially when it comes to shielding.



Thanks, screw it then. Always liked the look of the 6xxx and 7xxx series.


----------



## buson160man

jnorris said:


> buson160man said:
> 
> 
> > I agree refurbishing these old gems is essential to get the best sound out of them . With the improvement in electrical components over the last 30 to 40 years it is very probable that a refurbished vintage unit probably will sound and perform to a much higher standard than when these units were new . Hence they can perform very competently even when compared to modern units . The fact that they still work after all that time is a testament to the quality of the design and long term reliability . I can attest to that with the performance of my vintage unit which I purchased around a year back it sounds awesome with all my headphones .  In fact I have to say there is so much power that I myself have not heard a modern even high powered dedicated headphone amp that has the authority that my monster vintage unit has when used with headphones.
> ...


 

  I appreciate the nod. But after having my particular receiver for what I paid for it there is no way there are any like priced modern headphone amps that can match it for performance . So new does not guarantee superior performance  let alone equivalent performance . I have heard amps that are considerably more expensive that just do not have the kind of authority to reign in some of the tougher headphones that are demanding to drive . They just do not have the balls that the bigger vintage receivers have to drive the more demanding headphones .
    Of course these monsters were built primarily to drive speakers back then . I use to have a koss pro 4 aa headphones back in the days they built these monsters . Of course the monster vintage units were way too expensive for me even to consider purchasing one back then . But I guess I can say it is better late then never . Plus one look at the power supply on one of these behemoths it is easy to see why they are superior . The new headphone amps even a lot of the most expensive units have power supplies that do not even approach those of the old monster units back then .
   My unit uses 7 amp fuses I doubt there are any new headphone amps that have that much power .


----------



## Monsterzero

monsterzero said:


> Anyone know what parts are needed to repair/recap Concept receivers,while maintaining Concept sound?Concept only?
> 
> I have a guy out here in NY who does vintage stereo repair,but has never done Concepts before as they were a West Coast entity.
> 
> He told me not to get one because he didnt have Concept parts in stock.


 

 bump


----------



## jnorris

buson160man said:


> I appreciate the nod. But after having my particular receiver for what I paid for it there is no way there are any like priced modern headphone amps that can match it for performance . So new does not guarantee superior performance  let alone equivalent performance . I have heard amps that are considerably more expensive that just do not have the kind of authority to reign in some of the tougher headphones that are demanding to drive . They just do not have the balls that the bigger vintage receivers have to drive the more demanding headphones .
> Of course these monsters were built primarily to drive speakers back then . I use to have a koss pro 4 aa headphones back in the days they built these monsters . Of course the monster vintage units were way too expensive for me even to consider purchasing one back then . But I guess I can say it is better late then never . Plus one look at the power supply on one of these behemoths it is easy to see why they are superior . The new headphone amps even a lot of the most expensive units have power supplies that do not even approach those of the old monster units back then .
> My unit uses 7 amp fuses I doubt there are any new headphone amps that have that much power .


 
 I wasn't referring to modern headphone amps, most of which treat headphones like they were made of crystal. I was referring to modern integrated amps putting out 50+ watts per channel.  Most headphone amps these days are op-amp or single tube models that would cringe in the face of a vintage receiver.  IMO, however, not all vintage is good, and the purpose of the sizing of the units back then was not to produce the best possible sound quality, but to out-joule the competition.


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> Anyone know what parts are needed to repair/recap Concept receivers,while maintaining Concept sound?Concept only?
> 
> I have a guy out here in NY who does vintage stereo repair,but has never done Concepts before as they were a West Coast entity.
> 
> He told me not to get one because he didnt have Concept parts in stock.


 
 Caps, resistors, and transistors don't care if they're in a mcintosh or a happy meal toy. Go with quality parts, nichion, panasonic, etc, and it'll be fine. If your tech is asking you for parts recommendations, I'd say it was a red flag.and maybe you should audition more techs.
 For all other parts (think cosmetic parts - knobs, faceplates, glass), you'll have to go used or on the reproduction market.


----------



## Monsterzero

phoenixg said:


> Caps, resistors, and transistors don't care if they're in a mcintosh or a happy meal toy. Go with quality parts, nichion, panasonic, etc, and it'll be fine. If your tech is asking you for parts recommendations, I'd say it was a red flag.and maybe you should audition more techs.
> For all other parts (think cosmetic parts - knobs, faceplates, glass), you'll have to go used or on the reproduction market.


 

 He wasnt asking for recommendations,he said "If I replace things with parts that are non-Concept,then it wont sound like a Concept anymore".
 For the record he said essentially the same thing when I asked him about re-coning a pair of 1962 Jensen speakers.


 I know as much about these things as I do about nuclear physics,so I'm just looking for some understanding of the whole recapping/repair process.

 I'd really like to get one as my dad had one when I was a wee tot,but if the repair guy wont fix it,theres no point,which kinda bums me out.


----------



## buson160man

monsterzero said:


> He wasnt asking for recommendations,he said "If I replace things with parts that are non-Concept,then it wont sound like a Concept anymore".
> For the record he said essentially the same thing when I asked him about re-coning a pair of 1962 Jensen speakers.
> 
> 
> ...


 

  When I bought my concept receiver last year it had been recapped already .It is a stunning amp for headphone use . The only thing I did was to upgrade the fuses with isoclean fuses and replaced the crummy metal jumper they used from the pre out to amp in with a nordost heimdall version 1 interconnect . Those changes made a noticeable improvement to say the least .  I have to be honest I had never heard of the concept line before and I read about them on the net but only after I was lucky to land the one I bought . So if you can land one and find a qualified restorer I say take the plunge . You will not regret it .


----------



## Monsterzero

buson160man said:


> When I bought my concept receiver last year it had been recapped already .It is a stunning amp for headphone use . The only thing I did was to upgrade the fuses with isoclean fuses and replaced the crummy metal jumper they used from the pre out to amp in with a nordost heimdall version 1 interconnect . Those changes made a noticeable improvement to say the least .  I have to be honest I had never heard of the concept line before and I read about them on the net but only after I was lucky to land the one I bought . So if you can land one and find a qualified restorer I say take the plunge . You will not regret it .


 

 I posted this same question on AudioK....a and a few guys said theyre quite easy to work on.....

This is the cat I have been talking to,and he seems to be the only game in town out here on Lawn Guy Land


----------



## Benny-x

Yeah, I'd jump at it and if worse comes to worse you can do it yourself.
  
 There's another thread on here about tube amps(Little dot Mk VI & VIII Super Mods) and one guy went from knowing totally nothing to disassembling the entire amp and more or less making a wiring schematic for the whole thing from scratch. He still gives a lot of advice on there now. AudioKarma is a good site too. Lots of people are willing to help if you're willing to try. Though you are playing with electricity, so I'd say that's what the qualifier if for making this "adult", this stuff is all like adult Legos and it's not that hard. You're not building anything, you're just replacing it


----------



## SX3900

buson160man said:


> I appreciate the nod. But after having my particular receiver for what I paid for it there is no way there are any like priced modern headphone amps that can match it for performance . So new does not guarantee superior performance  let alone equivalent performance . I have heard amps that are considerably more expensive that just do not have the kind of authority to reign in some of the tougher headphones that are demanding to drive . They just do not have the balls that the bigger vintage receivers have to drive the more demanding headphones .
> Of course these monsters were built primarily to drive speakers back then . I use to have a koss pro 4 aa headphones back in the days they built these monsters . Of course the monster vintage units were way too expensive for me even to consider purchasing one back then . But I guess I can say it is better late then never . Plus one look at the power supply on one of these behemoths it is easy to see why they are superior . The new headphone amps even a lot of the most expensive units have power supplies that do not even approach those of the old monster units back then .
> My unit uses 7 amp fuses I doubt there are any new headphone amps that have that much power .


 

 The so-called vintage receiver was not that expensive. I bought the 60-watt and 120-watt Pioneer monsters brand new with just one summer of mowing yards as a teenager. Just look some few pages back of my posting.


----------



## buson160man

jnorris said:


> I wasn't referring to modern headphone amps, most of which treat headphones like they were made of crystal. I was referring to modern integrated amps putting out 50+ watts per channel.  Most headphone amps these days are op-amp or single tube models that would cringe in the face of a vintage receiver.  IMO, however, not all vintage is good, and the purpose of the sizing of the units back then was not to produce the best possible sound quality, but to out-joule the competition.


 

  Some of what you say is probably true . Those were the heady days of the power race for king of the hill which made for ever increasing bulk . But there had to be a few of them that were pretty decent sounding .
  After my exposure to the concept brand they were more than just power for power sake. As I had mentioned before in one of my blogs that the parts they use today have greater performance capabilities and when you refurbish a component it probably does sound quite a bit better with modern parts . Probably quite a bit better sounding then when they were new in fact . Obviously a lot of people agree look at the size of this blog . And it keeps getting bigger every day .


----------



## Mechans1

Power in watts per channel was one of the first if not the first thing you asked about 'back in the day' (circa 1976-1980 for me).  I bought a Kenwood 'Dual Mono' KA-7100 60 watt per channel integrated amp.  I bought a Nikko Gamma I tuner a year or so later.  I didn't even think about using the headphone jack.  I was able to buy a curious new import called Stax.  These were the electrets or ear speakers as I recall. I sold them some years later for very little.  I rebought  a set about 10 years ago, but they are lost in my former home now in the possession of my ex wife. I bought them mainly for nostalgic reasons and used them very infrequently.  I rather liked the AKG 701s I bought and used them much more often.   I live in an apartment now and feel self conscious using speakers, thus I am using only HPs.


----------



## grokit

So I guess I'll start trying to keep up with this thread again. I was lucky enough to pick up an SX-727 recently, it seems in fine shape. This model doesn't seem to have been brought up here for a few years. I believe it's from 1973 and puts out 40 wpc. Everything lights up, all the knobs are perfect and all inputs reportedly work. I got $50 off the selling price because the headphone jack didn't work, but it may have been the single-ended adapter I brought along for my HE-6 lol. It worked when we put the wires from another adapter into the slots for speaker cable. I'm glad I got the discount even if the jack is good, because it will cost me ~$50 per "room" for proper adapters for these speaker connectors. Anyways here's the photos from the Craigslisting, I think I did okay for $100 what do you good folks think? I have not looked under the hood yet.
  
 
  
 I do have still one of those weird DIN cables for that tape in/out laying around somewhere


----------



## Oregonian

grokit said:


> So I guess I'll start trying to keep up with this thread again. I was lucky enough to pick up an SX-727 recently, it seems in fine shape. This model doesn't seem to have been brought up here for a few years. I believe it's from 1973 and puts out 40 wpc. Everything lights up, all the knobs are perfect and all inputs reportedly work. I got $50 off the selling price because the headphone jack didn't work, but it may have been the single-ended adapter I brought along for my HE-6 lol. It worked when we put the wires from another adapter into the slots for speaker cable. I'm glad I got the discount even if the jack is good, because it will cost me ~$50 per "room" for proper adapters for these speaker connectors. Anyways here's the photos from the Craigslisting, I think I did okay for $100 what do you good folks think? I have not looked under the hood yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I do have still one of those weird DIN cables for that tape in/out laying around somewhere


 

 Looks great!  Never knew they had pre-out jumpers on low power receivers!   Congrats!  Should drive the HE-6 nicely out of the speaker taps.  I'm interested in hearing how the power does with the HE-6.  All I've fed my HE-6 is from 100wpc and up receivers/amps (SA-9900, SX-1050, Spec 2).


----------



## grokit

oregonian said:


> Looks great!  Never knew they had pre-out jumpers on low power receivers!   Congrats!  Should drive the HE-6 nicely out of the speaker taps.  I'm interested in hearing how the power does with the HE-6.  All I've fed my HE-6 is from 100wpc and up receivers/amps (SA-9900, SX-1050, Spec 2).


 
 Thanks, I can't wait to get it set up. Do you know if the headphone jack is supposed to be full power on the 727?
  
 I've run my HE-6 off of a 45wpc balanced power amp and it had plenty of power. Since the pioneer is single-ended, I can also put my 6SN7 tube stage inline with a source, which would bump up the gain. But I doubt I will, because from what I have read the Pioneers are plenty warm, and because I think the 40 wpc will be plenty. In the meantime I'll be looking for speaker tap adapters...


----------



## r2muchstuff

Pioneer SX 727 feeds the headphone jack from the speaker feed through a pair of resistors. If my memory is working, the resistors are 120 ohms per side.

r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

The SX 727 (37w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS) was introduced in 1972 along with the SX 828 (54w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), QX 9900 and QX4000 (both quad channel).
  
 It joined the SX 424 (12w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 525 (17w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 626 (27w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 2500 (72w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 6000 (36w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 9000 (50w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), QX 8000 (Quad) all introduced in 1971
  
 and the SX 440 (12w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 770 (20w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX 990 (28w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS), SX1500TD (58w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS) from 1970
  
 as the avaliable receivers in 1972.
  
 The SX 727's other specs were:
 Frequency response at rated power - 20Hz-20kHz
 Frequency response at 1 watt - 7Hz-80kHz plus or minus 1dB
 Power Bandwidth (all ch. driven) - 10Hz-60kHz
 Highest THD (.25W to Rated Power) % - 0.5
 Highest IMD (.25W to Rated Power) % - 0.5
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## headphones1999

Just picked up the Ramko-80 speakers in quit nice condition (they are about 50 years old).
 The guy who sold it to me bought it from the one who made those speakers.
 I guess non of you heard the name of this company and it makes sense, it was a very small company.
  
 my first impression: impressive soundstage (for the size), very smooth and relaxed sound.


----------



## SX3900

A very rare find indeed.
 Great job.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Saturday evening, so here is another stack.
  
 I missed last week, I was out of town.  I did see Bradford Marsalis live at a small venue.  Live jazz is wonderful.
  

  
 Mitsubishi Stack
  
 -bottom to top-
  
 DA-M10 Meter - fronting a DA-A15 Amp - dual mono 150w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS
 DA-F20 Tuner
 DA-P20 Pre amp
 DA-M10 Meter - fronting a DA-A10 Amp - dual mono 100w/ch @ 8 ohms RMS
  
 The P-20 pre amp headphone out is not feed from a power amp (internal op amp) thus I plan to adapt the speaker taps on the A-10 Amp for headphones.  With the right phones the pre amp headphone out sounds really good in itself, but that is not the point.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice - I've heard good things about Mitsubishi tuners.


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Saturday evening, so here is another stack.
> 
> I missed last week, I was out of town.  I did see Bradford Marsalis live at a small venue.  Live jazz is wonderful.
> 
> ...



Nice man! My father had I'm guessing a slightly older version of that stack without the digital display. I remember it sounding extremely good. I took it for a while as a kid when he upgraded and remember it being extremely powerful and clean. Wish I still had it...


----------



## r2muchstuff

The DA-F10 Tuner is analogue only.
  
 The system also included:
  
 DA-P10 Pre amp
 The DA-F10 Tuner
 DA-A7 Amp - not dual mono. a shared power source - 70w/ch @8ohms RMS
 DA- C10 - Control amp - combined pre amp and tuner
 DA-C7 - Control amp - combined pre amp and tuner
  
 The DA-M10 Meter was optional for use with any of the amps.
  
 By combining an Amp with a Pre amp you could create an integrated amp or with a Control amp you could create a receiver.  They bolted to the front of the amps and were interchangeable.
  
 Start with an amp of choice 70w/ch, 100w/ch or 150w/ch and add other components to create your preference.
  
 There were also similar styled all in one receivers.
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

The pre amp and dual monaural 150 watt amp plus meters look the same from memory, but the tuner didn't have a digital display. How do you like the Mitsubishi stack compared to your other stacks?


----------



## r2muchstuff

The Mitsu has great SQ, the specs are outstanding for late 1970's.   I would not call the SQ warm as other amps from the time are.  I am not as fond of the control setup, especially the tone controls, and lack of a muting/attenuator switch.  Pioneer and others that include dual tone control (i.e.: 50Hz and 100Hz for bass and 10KHz and 20KHz for treble) or turnovers were more flexible.
  
 The F-20 Tuner is top notch.
  
 Since headphones ran from the Pre/Control amps and were not driven by the Power amps they are less desirable for headphone folks, unless you rig a speaker tap connection.  They really shine with large speakers.  I plan to try out a headphone adapter at some point, but right now I have way too much to do.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

If I ever start collecting vintage separates, the Mitsubishi stack will be my first, if only for nostalgic factor. 

Did you change the bulbs to red? My dads old stack had white backlighting.


----------



## r2muchstuff

You should not be disappointed.
  
 Previous owner switched the meter bulbs.  My other M-10's are warm white, matches the F-20 analogue dial lighting.
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

Folks,
  
 I have a question.  Why all the love for receivers?  Is it just the appearance or the all in one space savings or what?
  
 Thanks,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have a question.  Why all the love for receivers?  Is it just the appearance or the all in one space savings or what?
> 
> ...


 

 I can only speak for myself,but they make awesome headphone amps,and usually cost a fraction of what dedicated headphone amps cost...My Sansui 881 turned my ATH AD2000s into a midbass beast,and if you know anything about the original AD2000s,that is quite a feat!

 Plus they look beautiful.

 Other than that I hate vintage receivers


----------



## r2muchstuff

I think I should clarify my question.
  
 Why the love for vintage (silver era) receivers verses vintage (silver era) separates - pre amp & amp or integrated amp?
  
 Thanks,
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have a question.  Why all the love for receivers?  Is it just the appearance or the all in one space savings or what?
> 
> ...



Probably a bit of both. Also availability, alot more Japanese receivers were sold back then than integrateds and separates. I see way more receivers on Craigslist and eBay.


----------



## terry parr

exactly.  availability.  if i could've found two integrateds with the same reputation for good sound that the two vintage receivers that i've acquired recently had, then i would've gone integrated (without the tuner) in a heartbeat, strictly on the basis of more pleasing aesthetics. (to me).
  
 i just think an integrated looks more streamlined, and less cluttered-looking than to have a lit tuning dial (which i think detracts from the looks of my sony STR-6055, especially).  there are exceptions, where the dial face of the tuner is well-integrated into the piece, from a design aesthetic where the look can be exceptional-looking. (to me).
  
  on my Technics SA-500, i think the design (where the tuner is the main focus on the front panel anyway) is a very classy look. (and the wood trim on this receivers' design really gives this receiver a very refined look).
  
  from a practical point-of-view, are you in an area that has good radio (public, or otherwise?)  so, will you be listening to the radio?  the answers are:  not really, and not much.  (for me).   if i do any radio listening, it's at the far left end of the dial.  (public and/or college stations).
  
  
 i picked up these receivers (and i've been enjoying their sound and have been impressed with the sound quality through headphones of both receivers) in spite of both of them having tuners.
  
 the SONY sounds so good, that it's easy to overlook that it has an ugly, green-tinted tuner face, lit-up.    but, overlook it, i have to do.  but, that's o.k.  the SONY was a game-changing acquisition and i'm so glad i got it.
  
 but, the green dial face was NOT a selling point of this receiver!


----------



## PhoenixG

terry parr said:


> exactly.  availability.  if i could've found two integrateds with the same reputation for good sound that the two vintage receivers that i've acquired recently had, then i would've gone integrated (without the tuner) in a heartbeat, strictly on the basis of more pleasing aesthetics. (to me).
> 
> i just think an integrated looks more streamlined, and less cluttered-looking than to have a lit tuning dial (which i think detracts from the looks of my sony STR-6055, especially).  there are exceptions, where the dial face of the tuner is well-integrated into the piece, from a design aesthetic where the look can be exceptional-looking. (to me).
> 
> ...


 
 We're definitely integrated and separates friendly over here, though receivers are by far the most common type of device out in the world.
  
 I'm glad you like the sound of the sony! If you don't like the green, you can change out the light gel filters and make it about any color you want.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Some advice on a turntable I found guys.
  
 It's a Denon DP-47F with Denon DL-160 MC element from 1986, condition as good as new and box, manual, etc ... included.
 I can get it for 275€. Any good? Any problems with these models?
 Easy to setup or need some knowledge about it? It's been ages since I had a truntable.
 I knowmy Marantz PM-11 can play MM and MC just fine, it has a great phono stage and there's no use for a separate one.
 But will my Sansui 9090 and Pioneer SX-1250 handle an MC cartridge well?
  
 Here's some pics to drool over.


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## SirMarc

The 9090 will only do MM and high output MC


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> The 9090 will only do MM and high output MC


 
  
 Thanks SirMarc, I checked around a bit, it's indeed high output.


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## AppleheadMay

Quote: 





r2muchstuff said:


> I think I should clarify my question.
> 
> Why the love for vintage (silver era) receivers verses vintage (silver era) separates - pre amp & amp or integrated amp?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


terry parr said:


> exactly.  availability.  if i could've found two integrateds with the same reputation for good sound that the two vintage receivers that i've acquired recently had, then i would've gone integrated (without the tuner) in a heartbeat, strictly on the basis of more pleasing aesthetics. (to me).
> 
> i just think an integrated looks more streamlined, and less cluttered-looking than to have a lit tuning dial (which i think detracts from the looks of my sony STR-6055, especially).  there are exceptions, where the dial face of the tuner is well-integrated into the piece, from a design aesthetic where the look can be exceptional-looking. (to me).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Trying to answer the question of r2 here.
  
 I was born in the late 60s and my father loved HiFi. Receivers, tape reels, turntable, a pair of nice speakers without crossovers. Later on a 4 piece Sharp Optonica separates system. Not High-End, who came later and which is sometimes funded by idiots (Kharma 200k+ with ceramic drivers anyone?). 
Back in the 70s receivers were more popular because anyone could have their Spotify by simply listening to FM.
 Where I live (Western Europe, hate to tell the country name) FM is still a big thing. I know the UK has moved to DAB and the Netherlands is following.
 I can tell you from experience that FM sounds like vinyl and DAB doesn't sound like a CD but like MP3. It *IS* compressed but takes up a lot less bandwith.
 I tried the difference on my main modern system whith an FM tuner and DAB tuner as well as a tiny little new retro-looking mono thingy. (pic below)
 Here, we still have FM over cable but once we don't anymore I'm putting a nice FM antanna on my roof.
 I have two vintage receivers (and not integrateds or separateds) simply because the tuner is there.
 But I do think that in the 70s more money was invested in receivers than integrateds or separateds. Simply check the power those receivers could deliver, You can't find an integrated from those days with the same amount of watts, it's even pretty hard to find separateds like that.
 And please don't compare those receivers with modern day stereo receivers (cheapest option) or God forbid AV receivers, which can be good at doing their thing but not reproducing music.
 I have a nice modern system (see my profile) which is high-end enough for me without going crazy and put a simple modern tuner into it because I can't live without my two favorite radiao sations.
 In my car I lsiten to my iPod half of the time and to those two stations the rest of the time. They're both fantastic national public staions by the way, well known in our neighbouring countries as well and totally opposed to the crappy commercial stations over here.
  
 An looks Terry? Well, we can't discuss those. I can understand your preference but those nice lights and meters of the receivers (my 9090 and SX-1250 for exaple) beat any silver faced integrated *FOR ME*. Weird, cause I absolutley hate the "******* of the world", also known as "Las Vegas". 
  
 My every day late-evening and early-mornin' system:


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## AppleheadMay

So, any tips on the turntable folks? 
 Here in Europe it won't be available at that price for long, especially with what I believe (from what I read so far) a nice cartridge included.


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> So, any tips on the turntable folks?
> Here in Europe it won't be available at that price for long, especially with what I believe (from what I read so far) a nice cartridge included.



Personally I'd go for a manual or auto-lift table from the seventies, very simple and easy to repair. That Denon looks cool, but looks like alot to potentially go wrong. Will the parts be available? Can you find someone to repair it? Just food for thought...


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## SirMarc

Apple, did you get the receivers back yet?


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Personally I'd go for a manual or auto-lift table from the seventies, very simple and easy to repair. That Denon looks cool, but looks like alot to potentially go wrong. Will the parts be available? Can you find someone to repair it? Just food for thought...


 
  
 Yep, it looks cool. I would go for semi-manual (auto turn off in order to avoid a heart attack) and yes I have a repair guy.
  


sirmarc said:


> Apple, did you get the receivers back yet?


 
  
 Nope, could take a month or so. I turned in 4 receivers and a pair of speakers and if I get the turntable it will go to the same guy, I'm picking up verything myself as shipping could ruin things and would cost a lot more than drivng 500km (back and forth) myself.
 For the Kappa speakers he even sent the midtones to a specialized guy in Germany to put new skins on them.
  
 http://www.lautsprecherklinik.de/index.php/reparatur-und-service/zusatzleistungen


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Yep, it looks cool. I would go for semi-manual (auto turn off in order to avoid a heart attack) and yes I have a repair guy.
> 
> 
> Nope, could take a month or so. I turned in 4 receivers and a pair of speakers and if I get the turntable it will go to the same guy, I'm picking up verything myself as shipping could ruin things and would cost a lot more than drivng 500km (back and forth) myself.
> ...



Cool. I should be getting mine back in a few days. Can't wait. I use a Thorens td145 which is semi auto. Awesome table. No heart attacks for me unless there's very little run out groove lol


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## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> I can tell you from experience that FM sounds like vinyl


 
  
 Big FM fan here.  I have modded my Kenwood KT-7550 (as per fmtunerinfo.com) to the hilt and listen to it constantly, and oh by the way the FM section in the 1250 is not to shabby either.   And I agree, FM is very close to vinyl with the right station.


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## ssrock64

speakerbox said:


> Big FM fan here.  I have modded my Kenwood KT-7550 (as per fmtunerinfo.com) to the hilt and listen to it constantly, and oh by the way the FM section in the 1250 is not to shabby either.   And I agree, FM is very close to vinyl with the right station.


 

 Unfortunately, not all stations are strict about the chain of equipment that goes into broadcasting. Freeform and community-supported stations, especially, are prone to sourcing from the laptops of individuals DJs, with little control of the file formats being broadcast. That said, most major commercial operations do it right and have high-quality broadcasts.


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## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Trying to answer the question of r2 here.
> 
> I was born in the late 60s and my father loved HiFi. Receivers, tape reels, turntable, a pair of nice speakers without crossovers. Later on a 4 piece Sharp Optonica separates system. Not High-End, who came later and which is sometimes funded by idiots (Kharma 200k+ with ceramic drivers anyone?).
> Back in the 70s receivers were more popular because anyone could have their Spotify by simply listening to FM.
> ...


 

  I have the analog tuner Tivoli table radio in green . It has an excellent tuner section and sounds decent for a table radio . Kudos to Henry Kloss on his reworking of his classic KLH table radio of yore .
 It seems that everyone who hears it likes it. But mine is just a radio with a mini jack input for an external source .


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## jaywillin

i'm narrowing my choices in the search for my first vintage receiver or integrated amp.
 my rack has an inside width just a shade under 18" , so i've been paying attention to the dimensions 
 it appears on at least one of the pieces i was looking at had an stated width of roughly 17" but in talking with the seller
 he said it was actually 18", with the difference maybe being the case, he wasn't positive.
 so my question is, are the stated dimensions provided by the manufacturer usually include the wooden case if the receiver 
 has one ? 
 a second related question, heat, in terms of size it appears from pictures i've seen , it doesn't look like ventilation isn't a concern on the sides,
 but i assume should allow for some air flow on the back and top. 
 i know most integrated amps aren't going to be a problem size wise, and i've found a couple of receivers that are obviously a good size for me
 but some others would really depend on wood or no wood . 
 any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated 
  
 thanks !


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## SX3900

r2muchstuff said:


> I think I should clarify my question.
> 
> Why the love for vintage (silver era) receivers verses vintage (silver era) separates - pre amp & amp or integrated amp?
> 
> ...


 

 Take it from the guy who purchased them brand new back in the day, the stores had the receivers and not the separates. If you wanted separates you only had a few stores in any given city selling them. I mowed yards as a teenage to purchase my Pioneer receiver, so I went to the discount stores, not the higher end stores where the separates were sold. For example the Pioneer SX-3900 (120-watts) receiver was discounted to the public at any given stores. However, the separates were at or near retail pricing.
 Just my $0.02


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## SX3900

jaywillin said:


> i'm narrowing my choices in the search for my first vintage receiver or integrated amp.
> my rack has an inside width just a shade under 18" , so i've been paying attention to the dimensions
> it appears on at least one of the pieces i was looking at had an stated width of roughly 17" but in talking with the seller
> he said it was actually 18", with the difference maybe being the case, he wasn't positive.
> ...


 

 Most of the 45-watt or under receivers will fit your bill. Its not just the length, its the height is just as important. The receivers is just one big heatsink. They put out a lot of heat and need to have air flow underneath and on top of the receiver. Keep that in mine when building the rack of equipment.


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## jaywillin

sx3900 said:


> Most of the 45-watt or under receivers will fit your bill. Its not just the length, its the height is just as important. The receivers is just one big heatsink. They put out a lot of heat and need to have air flow underneath and on top of the receiver. Keep that in mine when building the rack of equipment.


 
 that's what i figured, be really sure concerning height,
 and under 45 watts will be fine, the i'll just be using the receiver or amp for driving speakers at my desk here, and the headphone amp.
 the 2010 and 2015 marantzs the sansui 221, 331 , easily qualify, i had a seller check a sherwood 7200, its 17.5" including the cabinet and it's in super shape, and love the look
 the pioneer sx434 may do the trick too


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## SpeakerBox

jaywillin said:


> that's what i figured, be really sure concerning height,
> and under 45 watts will be fine, the i'll just be using the receiver or amp for driving speakers at my desk here, and the headphone amp.
> the 2010 and 2015 marantzs the sansui 221, 331 , easily qualify, i had a seller check a sherwood 7200, its 17.5" including the cabinet and it's in super shape, and love the look
> the pioneer sx434 may do the trick too


 
  
 A properly restored Sherwood 7200 is hard to beat.  Great look and awesome sound.


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## AppleheadMay

After checking what prices that Denon turntable and cartridge fetch here in Europe I immediately sent the guy a mail yesterday.
 As he didn't mail me back by this morning first thing I did was call him. 
 I guess it's a guy of about fifty that sells his dad's turntable, hardly used. The guy has the exact same turntable and cartridge but he had his one tuned and recabled and absolutely loves it. He has no idea this combo sells for about four thimes the price here.
 I immedately wired him the money and sent him proof after which he took it off the second hand site.
 I got him on the phone this evening to arrange for pickup at his place on May 8th and he told me that even after he took it off the site over 30 people called him.
 Guess I got lucky, Im now the proud owner of a Denon DP-47F with Denon DL-160 MC. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So May 8th I'm picking it up at his place and then drive straight through to my vintage repair guy and drop it off. Hope he has some off my stuff ready by then so I can bring part of it home as I have no vintage gear at all here for now, it's all in for service.
  
 Next year I'm taking a whole month off to have my home-office/mancave tailored by a carpenter to house my computer setup and three audio systems along with a nice glass cabinet for my camera gear. Man, will I be able to chill then!


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## Monsterzero

appleheadmay said:


> Next year I'm taking a whole month off to have my home-office/mancave tailored by a carpenter to house my computer setup and three audio systems along with a nice glass cabinet for my camera gear. Man, will I be able to chill then!


 
 That will be awesome til you begin on a 4th sound system,then where ya gonna put it


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> After checking what prices that Denon turntable and cartridge fetch here in Europe I immediately sent the guy a mail yesterday.
> As he didn't mail me back by this morning first thing I did was call him.
> I guess it's a guy of about fifty that sells his dad's turntable, hardly used. The guy has the exact same turntable and cartridge but he had his one tuned and recabled and absolutely loves it. He has no idea this combo sells for about four thimes the price here.
> I immedately wired him the money and sent him proof after which he took it off the second hand site.
> ...



Nice man! Good for you


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## roadcykler

appleheadmay said:


> After checking what prices that Denon turntable and cartridge fetch here in Europe I immediately sent the guy a mail yesterday.
> As he didn't mail me back by this morning first thing I did was call him.
> I guess it's a guy of about fifty that sells his dad's turntable, hardly used. The guy has the exact same turntable and cartridge but he had his one tuned and recabled and absolutely loves it. He has no idea this combo sells for about four thimes the price here.
> I immedately wired him the money and sent him proof after which he took it off the second hand site.
> ...


 
 Congrats. One of my biggest audio regrets is buying a Toshiba cd player instead of one of those or similar, when I left Okinawa in 1985. The cd technology was quite new and I was torn between the 2 formats and went with the cd. Denon had some great looking and great operating turntables during that time. I think you'll be pleased.


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## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> That will be awesome til you begin on a 4th sound system,then where ya gonna put it


 
  
  
 Build me a nice porch? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  
  
  
  

  
  
 Or get me a Beemer M5 with B&O sound system.
 Wait a minute, you don't want music in an M5, you wanna put the pedal to the medal with open windows to hear her sing! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 A GT-R Nismo 'd do fine as well.


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Nice man! Good for you


 
  
  


roadcykler said:


> Congrats. One of my biggest audio regrets is buying a Toshiba cd player instead of one of those or similar, when I left Okinawa in 1985. The cd technology was quite new and I was torn between the 2 formats and went with the cd. Denon had some great looking and great operating turntables during that time. I think you'll be pleased.


 
  
  
 Thanks guys. I think it 'll already please me by looking at it. 
 Just bought me my first two double live albums, AC/DC and Neil Diamond.
 Second hand site over here, but as good as new.


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## jaywillin

i don't know why i didn't think about this before, a wooden case shouldn't be too hard to remove should it ? i assume some easier than others.
 a couple of the receiver i'm thinking about getting, are right at the (width) limit of what will fit in my rack with the wooden case. 
 now i'd rather keep the case on, and i sure wouldn't discard the case, but it is going to be in a rack, so the wooden case wouldn't really be seen anyway


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## jnorris

jaywillin said:


> i don't know why i didn't think about this before, a wooden case shouldn't be too hard to remove should it ? i assume some easier than others.
> a couple of the receiver i'm thinking about getting, are right at the (width) limit of what will fit in my rack with the wooden case.
> now i'd rather keep the case on, and i sure wouldn't discard the case, but it is going to be in a rack, so the wooden case wouldn't really be seen anyway


 
 As you said, some easier than others.  Some are complete wood cabinets that lay the innards bare when removed, and some are just decorative wood side panels.


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## Oregonian

jaywillin said:


> i don't know why i didn't think about this before, a wooden case shouldn't be too hard to remove should it ? i assume some easier than others.
> a couple of the receiver i'm thinking about getting, are right at the (width) limit of what will fit in my rack with the wooden case.
> now i'd rather keep the case on, and i sure wouldn't discard the case, but it is going to be in a rack, so the wooden case wouldn't really be seen anyway


 

 Some wooden cases are just for decoration/coverage of the metal pieces - some, like the SX-1050, is part of the coverage of the electronics.


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## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> After checking what prices that Denon turntable and cartridge fetch here in Europe I immediately sent the guy a mail yesterday.
> As he didn't mail me back by this morning first thing I did was call him.
> I guess it's a guy of about fifty that sells his dad's turntable, hardly used. The guy has the exact same turntable and cartridge but he had his one tuned and recabled and absolutely loves it. He has no idea this combo sells for about four thimes the price here.
> I immedately wired him the money and sent him proof after which he took it off the second hand site.
> ...




Congrats. It's a sweet turntable and you will love it. Nice cartridge too. I had one for a while, excellent TT. I only sold it because I got a Denon DP-59L, which is a slightly higher end Denon from that same era. That era of Denon TT was absolutely terrific.


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## jaywillin

oregonian said:


> Some wooden cases are just for decoration/coverage of the metal pieces - some, like the SX-1050, is part of the coverage of the electronics.


 
 yeah, the more i looked, the more i was getting that impression


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## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Congrats. It's a sweet turntable and you will love it. Nice cartridge too. I had one for a while, excellent TT. I only sold it because I got a Denon DP-59L, which is a slightly higher end Denon from that same era. That era of Denon TT was absolutely terrific.


 
  
 Thanks Skylab!
  
 Yes, I looked for the 59L as well but closest decent one I could find was Poland, about 1200€ and modified.
 Glad I found this nice deal, will fit well with the rest of my Vintage system, the 9090 and SX-1250.
 Think I'm gonna keep my Kappa 7s as well and maybe forget about switching them for Yamaha NS-2000s in my vintage system.
 Do you have any experience with vintage Yamaha speakers?
  
 I'll maybe forget about the B&W 804s for my current Marantz system as well, somehow the new Yamaha NS-5000s caught my attention.
 Depends a bit if the quoted price will be per pair or per piece.  Heard some contradicting rumors.
 A dealer in the Netherlands will get a pair on demo after summer where I'll be able to compare them with the 804s on my own PM-11 S3 amp.
 He usually has special deals and gives nice discounts.
  
 May I ask what cartridges you use(d) with your Denon(s) combined with which receivers?


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## Skylab

My Denon DP-59L has a Dynavector 20xH on it, and it's used with my SX-1980. Sounds awesome!


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## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> My Denon DP-59L has a Dynavector 20xH on it, and it's used with my SX-1980. Sounds awesome!


 
  
 Ah, an MM. I'm planning to stick with the high output Denon MC for this turntable.
  
 Will get me a Marantz TT-15 for my other system which has a nice Clearaudio MM included. Was planning to get that one for a long time already and i could better get it while they still make them. I regretted not buying some Marantz gear while it was still new already as well as selling some nice stuff in the past.
  
 So I'll have both opposites, an automatic direct drive with MC and a manual belt drive with MM.


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## Skylab

Actually the Dynavector 20xH is a high output moving coil as well


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## grokit

appleheadmay said:


> Just bought me my first two double live albums, AC/DC and Neil Diamond.


 
 That's quite a pairing, congrats and enjoy your new TT


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## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Actually the Dynavector 20xH is a high output moving coil as well


 
  
 Indeed, i checked the DV site now. The review I read by Phil Gold wrongly states it as an MM cartridge.
 Quite high output! 2.8mV vs 1.6mV on the already high output Denon 106 or 101.
 You connect it straight to the SX-1980?


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## SirMarc

Got my 9090 back! Damn I missed this thing. Sounds amazing. Soundstage width and depth are inches better in every direction with my HD650's compared to my Kenwood kr7600. Pretty stoked, especially since my wife is going away for the weekend. Plan on having a true 70's weekend, all vinyl, shaking walls and a lot of smoke lol.


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## SirMarc

So looking at the receipt, it looks like he changed out about 25 caps, resistors, transistors etc, in addition to cleaning all the pots and switches and aligning the tuner. I'm impressed, it sounds better than I remember. Doesn't hurt that his shop is an authorized Macintosh service center either lol


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Got my 9090 back! Damn I missed this thing. Sounds amazing. Soundstage width and depth are inches better in every direction with my HD650's compared to my Kenwood kr7600. Pretty stoked, especially since my wife is going away for the weekend. Plan on having a true 70's weekend, all vinyl, shaking walls and a lot of smoke lol.


 
  
 Sweet man! Don't forget this: https://onversneden.com/tag/daily-dram/


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## AppleheadMay

When I have my gear back I think I'm gonna donate my wife a nice city trip as well. 
 As a compensation for all the lovely vintage gear she let me have of course, not that I need her out of the way or stuff like that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 Might use the occasion to test a couple of 30cm Infinity woofers with some AC/DC while taking a sip of single malt in order to enable myself to physically endure the sound pressure.


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Sweet man! Don't forget this: https://onversneden.com/tag/daily-dram/



Thanks man. Nah, I can't mix, it makes me sick. Just smoke, and lots of it this weekend lol


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## SirMarc

Listening to my 45 rpm The Yes Album now and all is good...


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Thanks man. Nah, I can't mix, it makes me sick. Just smoke, and lots of it this weekend lol


 
  
 No mixing involved ... that's why it's called SINGLE malt.


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> No mixing involved ... that's why it's called SINGLE malt.



I believe you misunderstood me lol. I can't mix weed and alcohol


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## SirMarc

Was trying to keep it clean lol


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> I believe you misunderstood me lol. I can't mix weed and alcohol


 
  
  


sirmarc said:


> Was trying to keep it clean lol


 
  
  


> Originally Posted by *Jimi Hendrix *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I never misundertand anything, unless I want to. I am also selectively deaf. 
You can mix them safely though.


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> I never misundertand anything, unless I want to. I am also selectively deaf.
> You can mix them safely though.



Lol


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## AppleheadMay

Also, w**d and keeping it clean really shouldn't be used in the same sentence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Unless it's on prescription of course, then I sincerely apologise and want to become a faithful and loyal customer of you and your "high-end" product. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 Ever watched the series Z-Nation by the way? You really should, it's "The Walking Dead" on steroids and a lot of other products. Fun and funny but not exaggerated and serious at times, so not a stupid parody. I bet you'll like it. Two seasons up 'till now and a third one coming. Z-Weed and CM Zombies FTW!


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## SirMarc

Were almost, but not quite, on the same wavelength here lol. I'll check out the show though...


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Were almost, but not quite, on the same wavelength here lol. I'll check out the show though...


 
  
 Impossible, at the moment I'm immune from any wavelengths.


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Impossible, at the moment I'm immune from any wavelengths.



That's funny


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## AppleheadMay

Really do check out Z-Nation though, you'll like it. It's serious and humorous without exaggeration at the same time.
Surprised you don't know it since you live in the US and have direct access to channels like Fox and HBO and whatever I don't know the name of. 
I have to download all that stuff here in Europe in order to watch it or wait 2 years after release to see it.
I do actually prefer some nice series to most movies. The 100 and Vikings for example.
the later Battlestar wasn't bad either (I used to be a Trekkie), Revolution, Falling Skies and of course Sons of Anarchy.
Much talk in Europe here about Breaking Bad, seen it, liked it but wasn't all that good IMO.


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Indeed, i checked the DV site now. The review I read by Phil Gold wrongly states it as an MM cartridge.
> Quite high output! 2.8mV vs 1.6mV on the already high output Denon 106 or 101.
> You connect it straight to the SX-1980?




Yup! The SX-1980 has a killer phono stage. 




sirmarc said:


> Got my 9090 back! Damn I missed this thing. Sounds amazing. Soundstage width and depth are inches better in every direction with my HD650's compared to my Kenwood kr7600. Pretty stoked, especially since my wife is going away for the weekend. Plan on having a true 70's weekend, all vinyl, shaking walls and a lot of smoke lol.






sirmarc said:


> So looking at the receipt, it looks like he changed out about 25 caps, resistors, transistors etc, in addition to cleaning all the pots and switches and aligning the tuner. I'm impressed, it sounds better than I remember. Doesn't hurt that his shop is an authorized Macintosh service center either lol




Very nice, Marc!!! Congrats buddy.


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## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Yup! The SX-1980 has a killer phono stage.
> 
> Very nice, Marc!!! Congrats buddy.



Thanks bud


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Really do check out Z-Nation though, you'll like it. It's serious and humorous without exaggeration at the same time.
> Surprised you don't know it since you live in the US and have direct access to channels like Fox and HBO and whatever I don't know the name of.
> I have to download all that stuff here in Europe in order to watch it or wait 2 years after release to see it.
> I do actually prefer some nice series to most movies. The 100 and Vikings for example.
> ...



I've seen commercials for it but dismissed it as a Walking Dead bite. I'll check it out


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## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> I've seen commercials for it but dismissed it as a Walking Dead bite. I'll check it out


 
  
 It's really not and indeed worth checking out IMO.
 Fear Ther Walking Dead is a rip-off, first season was far from good and second season just started. I'm going to check it out further.
 I also tried I Zombie but that was ridiculously bad. I abandoned it.
 Been a fan of zombies since that 80s movie with that zombie surrounded supermarket though.
  
 But enough of that chatter or we're gonna get a slap on the wrist.
 How does the recapped 9090 sound in comparison to when it wasn't recapped?
 What major caps have been used? Nichicon?
 I asked my guy to use Nichicon but don't know if those are readily available here and even if so that he's gonne use them.
 He is experienced with vintage gear though and a turntable specialist but he has a will of his own. 
 He does take his time (can't even be hurried with a stick) and he isn't expensive even when compared to US based vintage service while labour costs about double here. But he hasn't got employees, just an engineer who works with him independently. So they decide their own labour prices and are taxed accordingly. He has a quite a few Thorens players for sale by the way.


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## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> It's really not and indeed worth checking out IMO.
> Fear Ther Walking Dead is a rip-off, first season was far from good and second season just started. I'm going to check it out further.
> I also tried I Zombie but that was ridiculously bad. I abandoned it.
> Been a fan of zombies since that 80s movie with that zombie surrounded supermarket though.
> ...



This guy doesn't believe in full recaps unfortunately. He says they lose their character. What he does is bring it up to factory spec. What doesn't measure correctly gets replaced. That being said, the noise floor is lower, and it does seem to sound better from memory. Keep in mind though, its been two months since I've heard it. If I was to describe the sound, I would say its warmer than neutral, but not syrupy like some Marantz receivers I've heard. The soundstage width and depth is awesome and almost 3D like with my 650's and the right album. With speakers its clean, crisp with a warmish midrange and strong punchy bass. Great soundstage width and depth here also. My only complaint is that I don't love the phono stage, but that's OK because I use a Dynaco phono stage anyway. Let me know what you think of yours when you get it back. It could be a synergy thing with my Thorens, who knows


----------



## Monsterzero

Im thinking about doubling down on Planar headphones.....have an HE-500 waiting for me at the post office,and am actively looking for a pre fazor LCD2.2.

 Anyone using a vintage headphone out to drive the Audezes care to share their thoughts?


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> This guy doesn't believe in full recaps unfortunately. He says they lose their character. What he does is bring it up to factory spec. What doesn't measure correctly gets replaced. That being said, the noise floor is lower, and it does seem to sound better from memory. Keep in mind though, its been two months since I've heard it. If I was to describe the sound, I would say its warmer than neutral, but not syrupy like some Marantz receivers I've heard. The soundstage width and depth is awesome and almost 3D like with my 650's and the right album. With speakers its clean, crisp with a warmish midrange and strong punchy bass. Great soundstage width and depth here also. My only complaint is that I don't love the phono stage, but that's OK because I use a Dynaco phono stage anyway. Let me know what you think of yours when you get it back. It could be a synergy thing with my Thorens, who knows


 
  
 Will surely try the phono stage out and comapre it to the SX-1250 and my new Marantz PM-11 which is known to have a great phono stage.
 Not too big of a problem for me if the phono stage of the 9090 isn't that great since it 'll be using it more with my dac and mainly as a headphone amp.
 The Pioneer will have both the dac and record player as sources and will mainly be driving speakers. I hope its phono stage is as great as Skylab's SX-1980 then.
  
 Noise floor was already low with my 9090 but it had been serviced before I bought it although I don't know to what extent.
 Only USB noise from the Dac was a problem but quickly fixed by running it from the Mac Mini (now my main media server) instead of my main iMac which has about 15 things connected via USB. Hubs all around.
 The Aiwa didn't have any pronlem with USB noise from the iMac though, it was dead quiet even with the volume at 100%. Weird.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Will surely try the phono stage out and comapre it to the SX-1250 and my new Marantz PM-11 which is known to have a great phono stage.
> Not too big of a problem for me if the phono stage of the 9090 isn't that great since it 'll be using it more with my dac and mainly as a headphone amp.
> The Pioneer will have both the dac and record player as sources and will mainly be driving speakers. I hope its phono stage is as great as Skylab's SX-1980 then.
> 
> ...



The phono stage isn't bad by any means on the 9090, I just love the sound of Dynaco phono stages. I was hoping after servicing that I could just use the 9090 phono stage and build a small secondary system around the little Dynaco sca-50. Oh well. 

I would definately hook a turntable up to the 9090 if I were you. Well produced vinyl with the awesome soundstage of the 9090 is a thing of beauty ...


----------



## r2muchstuff

A AU 7700 waiting on a CLA.
  

  
 and Receivers waiting on the same.
  

 Pioneer SX D7000, SX 3900 & SG 9800


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> The phono stage isn't bad by any means on the 9090, I just love the sound of Dynaco phono stages. I was hoping after servicing that I could just use the 9090 phono stage and build a small secondary system around the little Dynaco sca-50. Oh well.
> 
> I would definately hook a turntable up to the 9090 if I were you. Well produced vinyl with the awesome soundstage of the 9090 is a thing of beauty ...


 
  You very well should van alstyn really made some good sounding pieces back then. I would not be very surprised that the dynas phono stage is a lot better than the ones in most receivers . I used to have an old pas 3 that was upgraded with better parts . It was a very good sounding unit . Those old tube units had pretty good sound when the parts were upgraded .There was quite a following back then for the dynaco units and there were lots of people who did parts upgrades back then .You could buy the dynaco units for a song compared to a lot of the receivers back then .


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> Pioneer SX D7000, SX 3900 & SG 9800


 
 Damn, I really love the look of the 3900 and D7000, even if they are from a little later age than the 50 and 80 series. Those first fluorescent displays are realy attractive.


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> A AU 7700 waiting on a CLA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My God man! Where do you keep all this stuff?


----------



## richard51

r2muchstuff said:


> A AU 7700 waiting on a CLA.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I am very happy with the sansui AU-7700 , what do you think by comparison of his sound performance? I am curious because i have only one point of comparison in the past, the Hitachi receiver  sr 904, i prefer the Sansui...


----------



## r2muchstuff

Thanks,
  
 I have been "collecting" for 20+ years, my handle tells all 
  
 Some of the stuff is in the house and operational, other stuff is in my 20'x30 tall roof "studio" building.  It does not show in my snaps of the equipment, but at one time I had a commercial photography studio in the building.  Now it is full of working and storage systems.
  
 Wife said I am of the age that some of the stuff should go, well maybe.
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I have been "collecting" for 20+ years, my handle tells all
> 
> ...



Lol, good for you man. What's your favorite rig?


----------



## r2muchstuff

At the moment, the Pioneer Series 20 rack, followed by the Exclusive M3, M73, Spec 3 rack, then the Spec1/4 stack and next a tie SX1250/1280.
  
 BUT -  I do like the Rotel stack and some of the older Pioneer stuff.
  
 However, for headphones I think it is the SA 9800.
  
 As with IEMs the fad of the moment can change.
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

richard51 said:


> I am very happy with the sansui AU-7700 , what do you think by comparison of his sound performance? I am curious because i have only one point of comparison in the past, the Hitachi receiver  sr 904, i prefer the Sansui...


 

 The Sansui is too new to me and has not had a CLA.  First impressions as a headphone amp are really good.
  
 Also, some early Sony in the house waiting its turn.   I am anticipating good things from it.
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

CLA? Clean, Lube, Adjust?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Yes,  and adjust to me means bring to spec and replace parts as necessary.
  
 r2


----------



## SX3900

Hey I have one of those, SX-3900.
 Love it to death. Nice seeing someone else enjoying the receiver.


----------



## Monsterzero

Went in to pickup my Sansui 881 from repair shop,and the guy says to me...

 "turn around and look what just came in."

 Concept 16.5 in flawless condition....

 Damn!


----------



## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> Went in to pickup my Sansui 881 from repair shop,and the guy says to me...
> 
> "turn around and look what just came in."
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  
 What price? If it's low enough don't think about it, buy it. Get it fixed later. Like it all you want or sell it for a high price.


----------



## Monsterzero

appleheadmay said:


> What price? If it's low enough don't think about it, buy it. Get it fixed later. Like it all you want or sell it for a high price.


 

 It belonged to one of his customers and it wasnt for sale,but the guy who owns the shop knows im interested in a Concept and asked the guy if he wanted to sell it.

 It was the first Concept the guy has had in his shop in 37 years.


----------



## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> It belonged to one of his customers and it wasnt for sale,but the guy who owns the shop knows im interested in a Concept and asked the guy if he wanted to sell it.
> 
> It was the first Concept the guy has had in his shop in 37 years.


 
  
  
 There are people in this thread who highly regard those and I've been in PM with.
 I never owned one as it's US voltage only and I hate step-up transformers. 
 But if I'd live in the US I'd buy one if I got the chance, if the price is reasonable of course.
 Here in Europe the prices for a good sample of decent vintage gear are never reasonable though.


----------



## Monsterzero

yes theyre are much admired over on audiokarma as well...I just cannot justify a 165 wpc monster to simply drive headphones.

 Im looking to get a 5.5,which should be plenty.

 BTW my Sansui 881 got back today,same time as my HE-500s(traded my T1s)arrived....perhaps theyre are better amps out there for the HE-500s,but they sounded pretty damn beautiful to me from my Sansui.

 It blows my mind that with over fifty years on this planet,and being a total music junkie since I was 11,I still hear **** in songs that I never heard before...Tonights revelation:that bass line in Jethro tull's "Aqualung",just so deep and upfront thru HE-500s+881...really changed the way I heard that song,and Ive heard it several hundred times prior


----------



## PhoenixG

I've been experimenting with a photo setting on my phone and I think it has been coming out well. Here's my little slice of heaven looking as good as ever.


----------



## buson160man

I can say something about the concept 16.5 owning one for about a year now .Mine was recapped recently just before I bought it . This is one powerful sounding headphone amplifier . My akg 701s and audeze lcd v2 have never sounded so authorative with any headphone amp that I have heard these phones with  It is one good sounding unit especially when you replace that horrible metal jumper pin with a good interconnect cable and upgrade the fuses with premium fuses like I have . I used isoclean  7 amp fuses on mine . The difference in sound quality is easily heard .


----------



## buson160man

phoenixg said:


> I've been experimenting with a photo setting on my phone and I think it has been coming out well. Here's my little slice of heaven looking as good as ever.


 

     Is that a empire troubador turntable ?


----------



## AppleheadMay

phoenixg said:


> I've been experimenting with a photo setting on my phone and I think it has been coming out well. Here's my little slice of heaven looking as good as ever.


 
  
 That's not a little slice, that's a big chunk! Looks awesome!


----------



## BucketInABucket

Wondering if an Akai AA-1050 would be worth it for 80 pounds.


----------



## PhoenixG

buson160man said:


> Is that a empire troubador turntable ?


 
  
 Nah, it's a dual 1229 in a fairly large box. Great tonearm. Decent price for its quality.


appleheadmay said:


> That's not a little slice, that's a big chunk! Looks awesome!


 
 Thanks man!


----------



## frahengeo

phoenixg said:


> I've been experimenting with a photo setting on my phone and I think it has been coming out well. Here's my little slice of heaven looking as good as ever.


 
  
 Wow.  Those are some really large surround sound speakers.  I can only imagine what the main speakers are like...


----------



## Monsterzero

Came across this today,if any members are in this part of Ohio,it would be very cool to check out

 https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/ele/5557884168.html


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> Came across this today,if any members are in this part of Ohio,it would be very cool to check out
> 
> https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/ele/5557884168.html


 
 WOW! That guy has like 4 pairs of L100 speakers!


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Came across this today,if any members are in this part of Ohio,it would be very cool to check out
> 
> https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/ele/5557884168.html



Damn, I'd totally go check that out if I was in Ohio. Think I saw some Ohms in there too


----------



## jnorris

phoenixg said:


> Nah, it's a dual 1229 in a fairly large box. Great tonearm. Decent price for its quality.
> Thanks man!


 
 Dual 1229!  My very first quality turntable back in the early seventies.  Idler driven, fully automatic with a Stanton 681EEE cartridge (which I still own).  Had it for a number of years until I eventually replaced it with a direct drive turntable and was shocked by the amount of idler rumble that I had become ear-blind to.  Sometimes the memories of vintage gear bear only a slight similarity to the reality.


----------



## PhoenixG

jnorris said:


> Dual 1229!  My very first quality turntable back in the early seventies.  Idler driven, fully automatic with a Stanton 681EEE cartridge (which I still own).  Had it for a number of years until I eventually replaced it with a direct drive turntable and was shocked by the amount of idler rumble that I had become ear-blind to.  Sometimes the memories of vintage gear bear only a slight similarity to the reality.



Yeah, there's about 5dB of noise above the theoretical mins. I've been eyeing an upgrade, but I really do love the tonearm on the 1229 that makes up for most of its flaws.


----------



## bjlasota

Good afternoon, I recently was handed down a V-M Corporation 972-1 player from my grandfather who recently passed away. I plugged it in, powered it up, and it appears to work great. I grew up visiting my grandparents, and at a very young age, they used to play this for me. I tested a few records and they worked great. Some of the knobs are hard to turn, but after playing with them a bit, I can get the speed correct and get some music out. Only being in my 30’s, but an avid do-it-yourselfer, I would like to know what is recommended to recondition this turntables, or get them into very good shape and what will be required to maintain it. I have no intention of selling this. With the permission of my wife, I hope to put it in our dining room for some nice, jazzy or big band dinner tunes. Can you recommend some things to look for or some services that I can do to make sure this record player stays in great shape for many years, and hopefully I can pass down to my kids? I'm a decent wood worker, so refinishing the cabinet will be a breeze. I also have experience in electronics and mechanics, being a mechanical engineer. However, due to my age, I'm limited in my knowledge of repairing a record player. I can post some pictures once my account has enough posts to allow me so. Thank you.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I replaced the tubes in the Fisher console I inherited from my father-in-law with good results.  Also gave all the controls a DeoxIt bath.


----------



## arpodyssey

They were used by the legendary electronic funk band from Japan Yellow Magic Orchestra (YMO) actually they had the Japanese version which were the Victor HP-550 in black instead of brown but they were basically the same except for some details in the ear cover and the color but you're a very lucky man.. i would love to have a pair of these... especially the original Victor HP-550


----------



## roadcykler

phoenixg said:


> I've been experimenting with a photo setting on my phone and I think it has been coming out well. Here's my little slice of heaven looking as good as ever.


 
 Do you have any issues with feedback through the turntable with those speakers that close to the turntable?


----------



## PhoenixG

roadcykler said:


> Do you have any issues with feedback through the turntable with those speakers that close to the turntable?


 
 Nothing that can be directly attributed to it. It has a decent suspension scheme with a low enough harmonic freq that it stays stable. At the very least, if there is feedback, it stays at levels sufficiently small compared to the music that I can't detect it even at max volume.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Patio Party tonight so I am late.
  

  
 The other day I was ask what my favorite system was,  well this is it.
  
 The room is being re arranged, thus it is currently not hooked up.
  
 Soon a pair of CS 99A speakers will join the party.
  
 r2


----------



## jnorris

r2muchstuff said:


> Patio Party tonight so I am late.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You know, I get the fascination with vintage Pioneer, Kenwood, et. al. electronics.  I do not get it when it comes to their speakers.  Back when they were originally sold they were considered junk - and rightly so.  Garbage cone tweeters, cheap crossovers (sometimes little more than a capacitor to the tweeter).  I remember going to a trade show when Pioneer was introducing their first speaker with a 15" woofer.  It was horrible.  I made a comment to the rep that the woofer was ludicrous and he said "Yep, great, isn't it!"
  
 Those speakers were the epitome of drivers in a box and were designed to be sold as an accessory.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> You know, I get the fascination with vintage Pioneer, Kenwood, et. al. electronics.  I do not get it when it comes to their speakers.  Back when they were originally sold they were considered junk - and rightly so.  Garbage cone tweeters, cheap crossovers (sometimes little more than a capacitor to the tweeter).  I remember going to a trade show when Pioneer was introducing their first speaker with a 15" woofer.  It was horrible.  I made a comment to the rep that the woofer was ludicrous and he said "Yep, great, isn't it!"
> 
> Those speakers were the epitome of drivers in a box and were designed to be sold as an accessory.


 
  
 Agreed - mostly junk, except for the ones Andrew Jones made recently, not vintage of course.


----------



## AppleheadMay

jnorris said:


> You know, I get the fascination with vintage Pioneer, Kenwood, et. al. electronics.  I do not get it when it comes to their speakers.  Back when they were originally sold they were considered junk - and rightly so.  Garbage cone tweeters, cheap crossovers (sometimes little more than a capacitor to the tweeter).  I remember going to a trade show when Pioneer was introducing their first speaker with a 15" woofer.  It was horrible.  I made a comment to the rep that the woofer was ludicrous and he said "Yep, great, isn't it!"
> 
> Those speakers were the epitome of drivers in a box and were designed to be sold as an accessory.


 
  
  
 Do you mean just about any speaker from then?
 I'm intersted in your opinion on for example Diatone DS-V3000, Yamaha NS-2000, Infinity Kappa 7 ...


----------



## jnorris

appleheadmay said:


> Do you mean just about any speaker from then?
> I'm intersted in your opinion on for example Diatone DS-V3000, Yamaha NS-2000, Infinity Kappa 7 ...


 
 Unfortunately, none of the speakers made by electronics manufacturers are worth the particle board their made of.  Many top companies such as Denon have lost credibility by introducing a speaker line.  They just can't get it right.  One arguable exception might be Carver, but people either love or hate their products.
 I've never heard the Diatone's, but the Yammy's are a conundrum.  Yamaha has built a strong reputation for it's studio monitor speakers, even though their entire line is shouty and unrefined.  I don't know - maybe you need a speaker to beat you over the head after listening to them in the studio for 10 or 12 hours straight.  Infinity is a regular "speaker company" and has put out some fine product over the years, as well as some mediocre stuff.  I own the Infinity IL-40's and love them (Craigslist find - $150 for the pair).  I've never heard the Kappa 7, but had a brief run in with the EMIT tweeters and thought they were exceptionally smooth and detailed.  Unfortunately, one blew after a short period of time and I made matters worse by trying to fix it.  Oh, well...


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> Agreed - mostly junk, except for the ones Andrew Jones made recently, not vintage of course.


 
 I've heard good things about AJ's work for Pioneer from some very reputable reviewers, but I have not had the opportunity to listen to any of them.  Based on the reviews, I have to say it's remarkable what you can do when you put some thought into a product - unfortunately, a half century of crap speakers from Pioneer point out the fact that they haven't.


----------



## Skylab

Pioneer made plenty of bad speakers, sure. However, they made some excellent ones too. The whole line of HPM speakers were highly regarded - the HPM-100 was designed by Bart Locanthi after Pioneer lured him away from JBL. And the early 80's DSS series was designed and build by Pioneer's TAD high end division. The DSS-9, which I own and use daily, were a serious loudspeaker that still sound fantastic - beryllium ribbon tweeter, boron cone midrange, dual-voice-coil polymer graphite woofer...this was a very expensive loudspeaker back in the day,and it sounds like it. 

So I'm sorry but like most sweeping generalizations, it's just not true that every speaker Pioneer made sucked. Only the cheap sucky ones sucked


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Pioneer made plenty of bad speakers, sure. However, they made some excellent ones too. The whole line of HPM speakers were highly regarded - the HPM-100 was designed by Bart Locanthi after Pioneer lured him away from JBL. And the early 80's DSS series was designed and build by Pioneer's TAD high end division. The DSS-9, which I own and use daily, were a serious loudspeaker that still sound fantastic - beryllium ribbon tweeter, boron cone midrange, dual-voice-coil polymer graphite woofer...this was a very expensive loudspeaker back in the day,and it sounds like it.
> 
> So I'm sorry but like most sweeping generalizations, it's just not true that every speaker Pioneer made sucked. Only the cheap sucky ones sucked


 
  
 Yes, we realize there were some good ones - but I would say the majority of them were nothing to write home about.


----------



## Skylab

The majority were indeed fair to bad, I agree. Frankly, looked at over its entire history, Pioneer made a lot of really mediocre electronics too. As did all the majors. What's fun, for me at least, is to find the stuff they made in the vintage era that was actually good and is still worth owning today.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> The majority were indeed fair to bad, I agree. Frankly, looked at over its entire history, Pioneer made a lot of really mediocre electronics too. As did all the majors. What's fun, for me at least, is to find the stuff they made in the vintage era that was actually good and is still worth owning today.


 
  
 100% agree!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I just picked up a Harman Kardon 330A (what I had as a brain dead teen).  Near mint with wood case.  Picked it up purely for nostalgic purposes and am guessing it won't sound as good as I remember (even after recap).   Once I get it back together I will post pics.  Listened briefly with my HD555s last night and it was OK - but not great.


----------



## jnorris

skylab said:


> Pioneer made plenty of bad speakers, sure. However, they made some excellent ones too. The whole line of HPM speakers were highly regarded - the HPM-100 was designed by Bart Locanthi after Pioneer lured him away from JBL. And the early 80's DSS series was designed and build by Pioneer's TAD high end division. The DSS-9, which I own and use daily, were a serious loudspeaker that still sound fantastic - beryllium ribbon tweeter, boron cone midrange, dual-voice-coil polymer graphite woofer...this was a very expensive loudspeaker back in the day,and it sounds like it.
> 
> So I'm sorry but like most sweeping generalizations, it's just not true that every speaker Pioneer made sucked. Only the cheap sucky ones sucked


 
 Let's look at the HPM-100 for the moment.  Here, the designers took developments made in the US and Europe (beryllium, boron, and ribbon drivers) and opted to throw them all in a box with a cheap woofer with a pleated paper surround.  No regard to driver placement, phase, diffraction, or sound - since they even provided level controls for the tweeter and midrange (but not the super-tweeter) because they had no vision as how these things should sound.  Mirror-imaging?  What's that?  
  
 I'm glad you like the the DSS-9, but they seem to be of the same ilk, although the designers gave a nod to the mirror-image crowd.  But here again, no regards to diffraction or phase and level controls to adjust for the manufacturers lack of vision.  There is plenty of technology for technology's sake, though.
  
 JBL has never been known for accuracy, refinement, or imaging, so to think that luring a designer from them would yield a worthwhile result doesn't make sense.  What JBL has is a house sound, just like Cerwin-Vega and Bose, and if you like it, great, but it has no similarity to the actual sound of the instruments played through them.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Does anybody know this? Any good?
  
  

   
Supex 901 Super MC Cartridge  
_*Specifications:*_

_Output voltage - 3.5 mV
 Frequency Response - 15Hz - 30kHz
 Tracking force - 1.8g
 Channel Balance - 0.5dB
 Mass - 9.5g
 Stylus Tip - elliptical 0.3 x 0.8 mil
 Load Impedance - 47k ohms
 Output Impedance - 80 ohms_


----------



## jaywillin

does this "qualify" as vintage ??  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
  
 it's a 2216 and just arrived, got it hooked up, everything works, i haven't opened it up yet
 at the very least it going to need a good cleaning, and a couple of lights
 but all in all, i'm a happy camper !


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yup! That is vintage.  Very nice!


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Does anybody know this? Any good?
> 
> Supex 901 Super MC Cartridge




That's a very nice cartridge, assuming that the stylus has life left in it.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> That's a very nice cartridge, assuming that the stylus has life left in it.


 
  
 Yeah, really high output MC, just what the doctor ordered.
 I'll contact him and ask. I don't see any other way to know how good the needle is.
 As far as I know you can't put a new stylus on an MC.
 I did deal with the guy before though, he was pretty sincere.


----------



## headphones1999

Just saw someone selling fisher c800 and this amp really got me interested, though im not sure i can afford it right now anyway but who knows.
  
 Does anyone have experience with this amp?
  
 edit: never mind he already sold it


----------



## RAZRr1275

So I know this question is speaking in terms of generalities and stereotypes but how warm exactly are amps like the Sansui 9090 in comparison to modern tube amps like the Zana Deux or DNA Stratus? I have my SX-1010 coming in soon so I suppose I'll find out but I'm curious what others say since from reading impressions it seems like the 1010, older Sansuis and Marantz amps are a fair bit warmer than most designers would make a SS amp today.


----------



## AppleheadMay

My newbie vintage opinion?
  
 Haven't listened much to the better vintage gear yet although I have a 9090 and SX-1250 but they're in for revision.
 I did listen to a nice little Aiwa AX-7600 though and used it as a headphone amp.
 I'm also a huge EC fan, of all the amps in my profile (some really nice and/or pricey ones) nothing beat the Zana for me.
 The Aiwa however is just under the Zana for me and beats all the other non-EC amps I had as a HP amp. Says a lot I think.
 I wonder how I'll find the EC BW, should be getting it soon I think, I was one of the first to order version 2.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

This thread inspired me to take my "back up" preamp out of storage.  It's a Phase Linear 3000 Series II.  Bought it back in 1980 after auditioning a number of preamps including the highly lauded Apt Holman.  I felt this unit was the best of the bunch to my ears and for my uses so I popped.  Only issues I've ever had were the volume control which I replaced with a high grade Alps and an aftermarket knob that fit the shaft.  Everything still works fine.  The CMOS logic and tactile switches along with the caps are all functional and in good shape.   I'm using an Odyssey Tempest preamp (US version of the German Symphonic Line) in my stereo system these days.  Made the switch in 2003.
  
 Had an old RatShack passive stereo RCA switcher too which allowed me to take the Schiit Modi 2 and feed it through it to both the 3000 II and a Schiit Vali.
  
 Bottom line is that the SQ out of the 3000 II brought back memories.  It's an excellent headphone circuit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Back in the day I used a 15' Grado Prestige headphone extension cable with my HD580s fitted with a HD650 10' cable out of this preamp.  My manual is in storage so I don't have the specs to share but it drives the HD580 / HD600 cans with ease.  Going beyond 11 o'clock is just too loud!
  
 I actually had to shake my head and ask myself if I would have still bought the Vali had I set up the 3000 II first.  Yes they're both THAT good!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Mr. Carver was a wizard.  Would still like to get my hands on a Phase 400 someday.


----------



## Hutnicks

speakerbox said:


> Mr. Carver was a wizard.  Would still like to get my hands on a Phase 400 someday.


 

 Did he pass away?


----------



## SpeakerBox

hutnicks said:


> Did he pass away?


 
  
 Not sure - I think he is still with us.


----------



## Bob A (SD)

hutnicks said:


> speakerbox said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Carver was a wizard.  Would still like to get my hands on a Phase 400 someday.
> ...


 

 He's retired as far as I know and still breathing. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Last was this http://www.bobcarvercorp.com/ that he sold to Jade Design in 2013.


----------



## Hutnicks

bob a (sd) said:


> He's still breathing and making quality components.  See http://www.bobcarvercorp.com/


 
 Good to know. I actually spoke with Bob on a few occasions when he was working on the Lightstar amps.
  
 His Stereophile Amp challenge should be required reading before you can be allowed to drop money on any audio gear


----------



## AppleheadMay

Hmm, 500€ for the Supex 901 Super, ultra mint though.
 Worth it?


----------



## PhoenixG

My sister sent me a new receiver. I think it's adorable. 

It's about 3cm tall and weighs about a pound. It has some cute details and (when hooked up to some proper speakers) doesn't sound half bad.


----------



## Hutnicks

Jeebus enough tranfsormage there to make a Krell cry!


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Hmm, 500€ for the Supex 901 Super, ultra mint though.
> Worth it?




In my opinion, no. That's too much for an old cartridge. Age does take its toll on suspensions. I would pass, personally.


----------



## buson160man

skylab said:


> Pioneer made plenty of bad speakers, sure. However, they made some excellent ones too. The whole line of HPM speakers were highly regarded - the HPM-100 was designed by Bart Locanthi after Pioneer lured him away from JBL. And the early 80's DSS series was designed and build by Pioneer's TAD high end division. The DSS-9, which I own and use daily, were a serious loudspeaker that still sound fantastic - beryllium ribbon tweeter, boron cone midrange, dual-voice-coil polymer graphite woofer...this was a very expensive loudspeaker back in the day,and it sounds like it.
> 
> So I'm sorry but like most sweeping generalizations, it's just not true that every speaker Pioneer made sucked. Only the cheap sucky ones sucked


 

  Actually TAD is the high end division of Panasonic not Pioneer . Their 42 thousand dollar model is great . I have heard them at a local dealer that was trying them out along with their equipment . Too bad they decided not to sell them .  But the equipment and speaker sounded damn good . I really liked the speaker it was one of the best sounding speakers that the dealer had in the store at the time . But 42 grand is a bit too steep for my shallow pockets . But it did sound marvelous with the partnering equipment .


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> In my opinion, no. That's too much for an old cartridge. Age does take its toll on suspensions. I would pass, personally.



Thanks, my thought too, a bit expensive. A shame though, was a really high output one, double of my DL-106 elements. You think the output of the 106 is enough for a vintage receiver? 1.6mV I think it is.


----------



## Skylab

buson160man said:


> Actually TAD is the high end division of Panasonic not Pioneer . Their 42 thousand dollar model is great . I have heard them at a local dealer that was trying them out along with their equipment . Too bad they decided not to sell them .  But the equipment and speaker sounded damn good . I really liked the speaker it was one of the best sounding speakers that the dealer had in the store at the time . But 42 grand is a bit too steep for my shallow pockets . But it did sound marvelous with the partnering equipment .




Sorry man but that's just not correct. TAD is the high end division of Pioneer, as I stated. Perhaps youre confusing that Technics was the high(er) end brand of Panasonic?



appleheadmay said:


> Thanks, my thought too, a bit expensive. A shame though, was a really high output one, double of my DL-106 elements. You think the output of the 106 is enough for a vintage receiver? 1.6mV I think it is.




Yes, 1.6 mV should be plenty for most vintage amps/receivers.


----------



## jaywillin

this is my first attempt at cleaning a piece of vintage gear. 
 the pots are scratchy, and everything works except the stereo indicator light and the dial pointer light
 opened up the marantz 2216 to this

  
  

  

  
 took it outside, took the bottom and knobs off. fired up the compressor, and a little work with a paint brush
 then deoxit
  
 underside

  
 top and bottom, knobs removed

  
 it's mostly clean, lol 

  
 buttoned back up, and in the rack, all the controls as quiet as can be, the stereo light does work, (hooked up some wire to the antenna connectors) 
 the only thing not working is the dial pointer

  
 i do have one question

 seeing as how these wires are held into place by silicon , i would assume this is a roundabout fix to replacing the meter lamp ?
 the light works, just seems kinda dim 
 when i replace the dial light, would it be a good idea to go ahead and replace all the lights ?


----------



## buson160man

jaywillin said:


> this is my first attempt at cleaning a piece of vintage gear.
> the pots are scratchy, and everything works except the stereo indicator light and the dial pointer light
> opened up the marantz 2216 to this
> 
> ...


 

  Pretty cool send us more pics as the process progresses .


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Sorry man but that's just not correct. TAD is the high end division of Pioneer, as I stated. Perhaps youre confusing that Technics was the high(er) end brand of Panasonic?
> Yes, 1.6 mV should be plenty for most vintage amps/receivers.




Great, thanks! Will stick to those 106s then for this Denon, seems like a good match.


----------



## jaywillin

buson160man said:


> Pretty cool send us more pics as the process progresses .


 
 will do, 
 i think i'm going to go ahead and get an LED lamp kit, seeing as how i have to do one, i might as well do them all


----------



## SirMarc

Someone just gave my brother in law a Marantz 2230 with a wood case. Damn, I never get that lucky lol


----------



## r2muchstuff

No photo tonight.  Worked in yard and planted garden today, then Kentucky Derby to watch and dinner so no time bring out something.
  
 I do have a question.  If all/most vintage speakers were crap, what in the $300 - $500 each (mid to late 70's U.S. dollars) price range were worthy?
  
 Thanks,
 R


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> No photo tonight.  Worked in yard and planted garden today, then Kentucky Derby to watch and dinner so no time bring out something.
> 
> I do have a question.  If all/most vintage speakers were crap, what in the $300 - $500 each (mid to late 70's U.S. dollars) price range were worthy?
> 
> ...



Ohm L's


----------



## Bob A (SD)

sirmarc said:


> r2muchstuff said:
> 
> 
> > No photo tonight.  Worked in yard and planted garden today, then Kentucky Derby to watch and dinner so no time bring out something.
> ...


 
 I'm partial to the KLH-6, AR-3a, and Large Advent.
  
 The Yamaha NS-500M and JBL L-100 also fit your criteria.

 A tad more as they originally retailed for $600 each but the AR LST certainly wasn't crap either.


----------



## jnorris

bob a (sd) said:


> I'm partial to the KLH-6, AR-3a, and Large Advent.
> 
> The Yamaha NS-500M and JBL L-100 also fit your criteria.
> 
> A tad more as they originally retailed for $600 each but the AR LST certainly wasn't crap either.


 
 Oooooh, Double Large Advents - one pair on top of the other.  That combination reached LEGENDARY status back in the day!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I have large Advents too.  Utility cabinet version.  Fantastic sound.


----------



## jnorris

You need two pair to make them sing.  I used to sell them, and after hearing about the doubles we opened up another pair and set them up in the showroom.  The transformation was amazing.  The sound became more natural and open, without the wooly bass that the single Advents exhibited.  Those were the days of the magic...


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> No photo tonight.  Worked in yard and planted garden today, then Kentucky Derby to watch and dinner so no time bring out something.
> 
> I do have a question.  If all/most vintage speakers were crap, what in the $300 - $500 each (mid to late 70's U.S. dollars) price range were worthy?
> 
> ...


 


sirmarc said:


> Ohm L's


 


bob a (sd) said:


> I'm partial to the KLH-6, AR-3a, and Large Advent.
> 
> The Yamaha NS-500M and JBL L-100 also fit your criteria.
> 
> A tad more as they originally retailed for $600 each but the AR LST certainly wasn't crap either.


 
  
  
 Also looking for non crappy speakers but I have a few dilemmas.
  
 1) I'm looking for floorstanders. Definitely 3 way or more.
 2) I need to be able to drive them with my SX-1250, not an SX-1980
 3) I'd like to keep the budget under 2k for a really nice pair.
 4) I'm definitely in love with the JBL 250TI but I hate all the controls on the back. I want speakers that just play and don't take me a few years to tone right and still not be sure if I did a good job. So I prefer no controls at all.
 5) I love good looks as well, hence the 250TI.
 6) Size matters. Preferably not taller than those JBLs.
  
 I have a pair of Kappa 7a now but they're in for total revision. Kappas are pretty hungry though.
 Some speakers I was thinking of and have been recommended are Yamaha NS-200 or Diatone DS--3000 / DS-5000 / DS-V3000 / DS-V5000.
 Any suggestions on the JBL/Infiniy/Yamaha/Diatone speakers I mentioned? 
 Open to any and all other suggestions!


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> Also looking for non crappy speakers but I have a few dilemmas.
> 
> 1) I'm looking for floorstanders. Definitely 3 way or more.
> 2) I need to be able to drive them with my SX-1250, not an SX-1980
> ...


 
 If you're open to modern speakers, I like the Infinity primus 363 line. If you want vintage, I'd go klipsch.


----------



## SirMarc

My modern, not too crazy pick would be GoldenEar Triton 7's. I auditioned them and was very impressed. I ultimately decided to stick with my Dahlquist DQ-20's, but nothing I heard even came close to the Tritons for under 1500 bucks...


----------



## Mechans1

I like the Yamaha 'house sound', but don't remember if they needed power or not.  I have a pair in storage somewhere but they need re-foaming of the woofers.  I think they are the 'almost Beryllium' tweeter model.    ?NS -10s? can't remember.
 You are right about the Kappas they need* a lot *of quick power, to sound good.
 I have no suggestions, speakers are a very personal preference, and subjective type of thing.  It is really best to hear what you are considering. Other peoples descriptions can be very misleading, not intentional mind you, it is just the way it is.


----------



## abby normal

high-enders might sniff at this, but at my local goodwill store I found a dusty grimy long-neglected pair of MCS 8330 "time aligned" 3-way bass-reflex speakers [12" woofer], and out of curiosity I hooked them up to an amp and played some music through them and found them to be surprisingly neutral, polite even [non-boomy] in the bass and midrange [but bright in the lower treble]. the midrange and tweeter pots were crackly so i cranked the knobs back and forth for about a minute until the crackle disappeared. so for $25 I figured how wrong could it be, so I took them home, cleaned them up, hooked 'em up to my old pioneer sx-636 receiver, and found them to be somewhat bass shy, like they rolled off below about 100 cycles, so I EQ'ed 'em in that range by 7 db to bring the bass back up, and I found that the mids [for some reason they were about 3 db too strong] needed to be cranked back by 3 db on the pad, and the tweeter level had to be at 0 db before it sounded close enough to "right." after that, they sound very dynamic and clear/clean speakers for their purpose, very sensitive [guessing about 93 db @ 1w/m], a 25 watt/channel [rated] receiver will make them sufficiently loud to hear the quiet parts of classical music yet cleanly pump out the dynamic peaks. the bass range, in particular, with EQ, is palpable, with usable lows down into the upper 20s, audible when listening to some pipe organ recordings. on 78 rpm records they bring out the inner voices that are obscured by many other speakers of their vintage [1980]. when playing led zep, john Bonham's drum set became visceral. they don't image beyond the speaker boundaries but within the equilateral triangle instrumental positions have depth and solidity. their tone reminds me of a slightly mellower klipsch.
 I am wondering if anybody else here has had favorable experience with this model of speaker?


----------



## AppleheadMay

phoenixg said:


> If you're open to modern speakers, I like the Infinity primus 363 line. If you want vintage, I'd go klipsch.


 


sirmarc said:


> My modern, not too crazy pick would be GoldenEar Triton 7's. I auditioned them and was very impressed. I ultimately decided to stick with my Dahlquist DQ-20's, but nothing I heard even came close to the Tritons for under 1500 bucks...


 


mechans1 said:


> I like the Yamaha 'house sound', but don't remember if they needed power or not.  I have a pair in storage somewhere but they need re-foaming of the woofers.  I think they are the 'almost Beryllium' tweeter model.    ?NS -10s? can't remember.
> You are right about the Kappas they need* a lot *of quick power, to sound good.
> I have no suggestions, speakers are a very personal preference, and subjective type of thing.  It is really best to hear what you are considering. Other peoples descriptions can be very misleading, not intentional mind you, it is just the way it is.


 
  
 If I'd go vintage I'd still consider Yamaha NS-2000 or one of the larger Diatones. That is if they would be better than my Kappa 7s.
 But I wonder if going vintage for speakers is such a good idea. 
  
 What about  Klipsch Cornwall III? Anyone heard their modern Heritage series?
Their 2k per speaker but that's better than 4k for B&W 804 D3 at 4K per speaker (and without the big woofer) or Yamaha NS-5000 at 6k per speaker (or per pair, the verdict is still not out about that and they will only available from fall 2016).


----------



## AppleheadMay

By the way, my three receivers are back. Here's what has been done. Remember that when I bought them they were in really nice shape already.
 Now my turntable and Infinitys are still in. The Infinitys take longer because I had the Polydomes sent to a specialist in Germany for reskinning.
  
*AIWA AX-7600*
 All tantalum caps replaced
 A few necessary electrolyte caps replaced
 Lights replaced
 Full cleaning and de-oxidizing
 Solder inspection
 DC offset and bias current calibrated
 Full calibration and endurance test on dummy load and reactive strain (6Ohm + 4uF parallel shunted)
 Some minor tweaks
  
*Pioneer SX-1250*
 Big power caps replaced (was already done when I got it)
 All tantalum caps replaced (15)
 A few necessary electrolyte caps replaced
 A few necessary transistors replaced
 Speaker protection relay replaced
 Lights replaced
 Full cleaning and de-oxidizing
 Solder inspection
DC offset and bias current calibrated
 Full calibration and endurance test on dummy load and reactive strain (6Ohm + 4uF parallel shunted)
 Some minor tweaks
 Wood oiled
  
*Sansui 9900*
The only tantalum cap in the tuner section replaced
 72 electrolyte caps replaced
 A few necessary transistors replaced
 Lights replaced
 Full cleaning and de-oxidizing
 Solder inspection
 DC offset and bias current calibrated
 Full calibration and endurance test on dummy load and reactive strain (6Ohm + 4uF parallel shunted)
 Some minor tweaks
 Wood oiled
  
 I got the bags with all the replaced parts as well. They look as good as new now. sound great with phones too, haven't tried them with speakers yet, waiting for the Infinitys to come back.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> By the way, my three receivers are back. Here's what has been done. Remember that when I bought them they were in really nice shape already.
> Now my turntable and Infinitys are still in. The Infinitys take longer because I had the Polydomes sent to a specialist in Germany for reskinning.
> 
> *AIWA AX-7600*
> ...



How do you like the 9090 with your HD650'S?


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> How do you like the 9090 with your HD650'S?


 
  
 Will have to get back to you on that. I only tried the three amps briefly with an LA-900 when I got home with them.
 I have a nasty cold right now so it's a bad time to compare amps and phones, my eardrums feel like I'm lifting off on an airplane.
 So remind me in a few weeks when I can hear again. 
  
 My general opinion of the three amps with phones before I had them serviced was that they were only outperformed by the Zana of all the amps I heard.
 That includes the HP4 and GS-X. Not saying the GS-X isn't a top amp in anyway, just too clean and "sharp" (for lack of a better word, a bit to drugged from antibiotics and anti-fever stuff to think a lot right now) for me and not pairing well mith my heaphone preferences.
  
 In any case, I dig these vintage receivers, might get me a few more. Just doubting on what speakers i will use with them, something vintage or something new. I want them to match well with my Marantz system as well as with the SX-1250. Looks does something for me as well (the 9090 is the best looking of all my vintage receivers and if I were to mention a few other "sexy" ones it would be the SX-1980 and SX-3900).
 Speakers I know that both sound and look good are the B&W 804 D3 for example and they sound wonderful as well, very detailed with the nicest imaging I have heard so far. A shime they only use two small woofers. Other good lookers are NS-2000 and larger Diatones. And the Infinitys of course, I strongly prefer the look of my Kappa 7s to the taller ones in their range or the newer Kappas like the Renaissance or i series. But all that will have to wait until I have my restored Kappas back and can give them a good listen. Before restoration the only thing I noticed was that they sure did rock but might have been a bit underpowerd by the 9090. I guess the 1250 should take care of that.
  
 But first things first. I'm looking to sell off some gear as well. Have a bunch of earpads for Fostex and audeze, one of my LA-900s has to go and the little Aiwa as well. It is a great amp and probably understimated but now I have the 9090 and 1250 I don't really have the need for it anymore. And a fantastic Razer Kraken 7.1 ... beats an SR-009 with BHSE any day of the week.


----------



## headphones1999

Just when im thinking of saving some money to get the 9090 someone here talks about it 
 Though I think that I will get me more modern amp, im too scared that the 9090 will have too much bass.


----------



## SirMarc

I have a pair of 5 Kappas that sound very good with the 9090, but only at low to medium volumes. They're too small for wall shaking volumes lol. I was thinking of tracking down some 6 Kappas so I can crank them


----------



## SirMarc

headphones1999 said:


> Just when im thinking of saving some money to get the 9090 someone here talks about it
> Though I think that I will get me more modern amp, im too scared that the 9090 will have too much bass.



Not in the least. The 9090 has good, solid, punchy bass, but not overpowering at all. Well integrated overall. The soundstage width and depth will amaze you


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> Just when im thinking of saving some money to get the 9090 someone here talks about it
> Though I think that I will get me more modern amp, im too scared that the 9090 will have too much bass.


 
  
 When I read "too much bass" I think of blooming, muddy bass. You shouldn't be scared of that with the 9090. It does have power though.


----------



## headphones1999

sirmarc said:


> Not in the least. The 9090 has good, solid, punchy bass, but not overpowering at all. Well integrated overall. The soundstage width and depth will amaze you


 


appleheadmay said:


> When I read "too much bass" I think of blooming, muddy bass. You shouldn't be scared of that with the 9090. It does have power though.


 
 pffff decisions decisions 
 I guess I will have to test them on my system one day.
  
 btw changing the subject for a second
 My friend is going to get the Kenwood KA9300 very soon, and damn i really hope i will have a chance to listen to it, will share my thoughts on the masterpiece here of course if it will happen (and who knows, there is a little chance that i will buy it from him)


----------



## SirMarc

headphones1999 said:


> pffff decisions decisions
> I guess I will have to test them on my system one day.
> 
> btw changing the subject for a second
> My friend is going to get the Kenwood KA9300 very soon, and damn i really hope i will have a chance to listen to it, will share my thoughts on the masterpiece here of course if it will happen (and who knows, there is a little chance that i will buy it from him)



I have a Kenwood kr-7600 that is a bit more bass heavy than my 9090, not too much per se, but heading in that direction. Check out your friends Kenwood and see what you think. If it has too much bass, the 9090 may actually suit you better...


----------



## Oregonian

headphones1999 said:


> Just when im thinking of saving some money to get the 9090 someone here talks about it
> Though I think that I will get me more modern amp, im too scared that the 9090 will have too much bass.


 

 That's the beauty of these beasts - they have tone controls to tame both bass and treble to whatever you want................


----------



## BucketInABucket

My two rigs!


----------



## SirMarc

bucketinabucket said:


> My two rigs!



Nice! But why are your DACs upside down?


----------



## BucketInABucket

sirmarc said:


> Nice! But why are your DACs upside down?


 
 The left and right balanced outs are swapped around on the DACMagic so I turned it upside down to avoid crossing over the cables when I connect it to my Liquid Carbon.


----------



## SirMarc

bucketinabucket said:


> The left and right balanced outs are swapped around on the DACMagic so I turned it upside down to avoid crossing over the cables when I connect it to my Liquid Carbon.



Ahh


----------



## BucketInABucket

It's the same unit btw; I'm ferrying it around until I get around to finishing my DiY DAC!


----------



## SirMarc

bucketinabucket said:


> It's the same unit btw; I'm ferrying it around until I get around to finishing my DiY DAC!



Cool. Now you have to add a vintage turntable to one of the rigs to make it complete


----------



## BucketInABucket

sirmarc said:


> Cool. Now you have to add a vintage turntable to one of the rigs to make it complete


 
 The problem is I have no vinyl to speak of or space to store it


----------



## SirMarc

bucketinabucket said:


> The problem is I have no vinyl to speak of or space to store it



Well, you're going to have to do something about that! All kidding aside, its a fun, though not cheap, part of the experience


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> The problem is I have no vinyl to speak of or space to store it


 
 lol I have the same "problem"
 wanted to get dual 1229 but i suddenly remembered that i don't really have vinyl
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 instead got myself another sub to match my morel prelude because why not? :3
  
 The Tannoy look very nice, how they sound compare to the kef?


----------



## buson160man

bucketinabucket said:


> My two rigs!


 
  I remember the old kef b139 woofers back then they were quite unique for woofers back then .


----------



## r2muchstuff

This system is not exactly vintage.  It is located in the bar.  A 9' x 11' room off the kitchen.
 It is actually my newest currently operating rig, important for two reasons:
 1. The RT 990BX tuner
 2. A place holder for a SX 1250 & SG 9800 which are in for CLA.
  


 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

Tonight I have my SA 9800 back from the shop.  New setup includes feeding it from my Mac to a Bifrost Multibit.  Now I have the SA 9800 and a Lyr 2 as headphone amps.  So far, IMHO, this is a step up from the Emotiva XDA 2 Dac/Head Amp feeding the SA.
  

  
 r2


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Hi guys is their a MOD that i can do so i can  turn the volume pot higher before it gets loud(I would like to turn the volume pot a bit more before it gets really loud because right now two clicks from the pot its already loud)?
 My setup are TEAC A-X75 mkII(TEAC  volume pot is Stepped attenuator type) Pre out to drive KENWOOD KM-992 and SANSUI B-3000.
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## headphones1999

well its not receiver but its vintage for sure in its territory.
 so i bought usb to spif converter about 5 weeks ago, and when finally the converter arrived from china (5 weeks) i found out that in the box there is something else than what the seller showed in his pictures... great
 "luckily" it still have coax and optic outputs, so im now able to listen to my vintage dac bel canto dac2 with my pc...
 I hope that when I will buy real usb-SPDIF converter soon to see if there will be changes in the sound buy,
 meanwhile, i love what i hear
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Actually I sold my violectrick V800 for the bel canto, and i didnt even heard this bc before, but thats part of the fun in the hobby (at least for me). the reason i sold it is that the V800 just didnt sound like 1K$ dac comapre to the hifime (50$) that did almost everything the v800 did.
  
 the bel canto is a different beast, it sound much more realistic, the bass is more accurate,
 but on the other hand the v800 had bigger soundstage and the highs were more open.
 In the end i think that the bc is just better, i doubt there will be people that will say that the v800 is better.


----------



## PhoenixG

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Hi guys is their a MOD that i can do so i can  turn the volume pot higher before it gets loud(I would like to turn the volume pot a bit more before it gets really loud because right now two clicks from the pot its already loud)?
> My setup are TEAC A-X75 mkII(TEAC  volume pot is Stepped attenuator type) Pre out to drive KENWOOD KM-992 and SANSUI B-3000.
> 
> 
> Thanks!


 
 Sure, if it's a true discrete stepped attenuator, you can pull off some of the resistor linking each stage and replace them with higher ones. I'd replace the first 6 or so with something about 4x higher to get you a little more play, but the exact values to use will depend on what's in there now and how you want the volume knob increase curve to look. Depending on how it's set up, you might have to change some others so the total gain doesn't change.
 If you have a potentiometer in there that just 'clicks' and acts like an attenuator, then you can just pop that guy out and replace it with another high quality one of a much higher resistance.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

phoenixg said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys is their a MOD that i can do so i can  turn the volume pot higher before it gets loud(I would like to turn the volume pot a bit more before it gets really loud because right now two clicks from the pot its already loud)?
> ...


 
   I opened the unit last night and take a look whats inside,The pot is just one of those Potentiometer (250K) that clicks.I just remember what i did to my BH CRACK back then so i put a 68R(2 pcs) from RCA ground to left and right RCA hot  and it works.I don't know if this is a good practice all i know it works for my application hope fully i don't create the magic smoke.Thanks for your reply.


----------



## jnorris

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I opened the unit last night and take a look whats inside,The pot is just one of those Potentiometer (250K) that clicks.I just remember what i did to my BH CRACK back then so i put a 68R(2 pcs) from RCA ground to left and right RCA hot  and it works.I don't know if this is a good practice all i know it works for my application hope fully i don't create the magic smoke.Thanks for your reply.


 
 That's one way of doing it.  On my Parasound P/HP850 I ran a second resistor in parallel with the resistor that provides negative feedback for the line/gain stage, thus increasing negative feedback and decreasing gain.  I've also built a separate outboard voltage divider that goes between the preamp and amp and reduces the gain.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jnorris said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I opened the unit last night and take a look whats inside,The pot is just one of those Potentiometer (250K) that clicks.I just remember what i did to my BH CRACK back then so i put a 68R(2 pcs) from RCA ground to left and right RCA hot  and it works.I don't know if this is a good practice all i know it works for my application hope fully i don't create the magic smoke.Thanks for your reply.
> ...


 
 And not only it decreased the gain the amp is dead quiet/blacker background too.Thanks again!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jnorris said:


> > I've also built a separate outboard voltage divider that goes between the preamp and amp and reduces the gain.


 
 This i'am interested.
  
 PM me for schematic PLEASE!
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jnorris

i luvmusic 2 said:


> This i'am interested.
> 
> PM me for schematic PLEASE!
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I tried to find a clever schematic drawing program to draw up this simple circuit, but could find nothing simple and quick.  Basically, you take a 15K and a 4.7K resistor and tie them in series.  The positive output from the preamp goes to the top of the 15K and ground goes to the bottom of the 4.7K.  Output is taken from the top of the 4.7K for positive and the bottom of it for ground.  The formula for calculating the output voltage is Vout = (Vin x R2)/(R1 + R2) where the 15K is R1 and the 4.7K is R2.
  
 Did I make myself clear?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Traveling again tomorrow. Post tonight a photo of my sons Pioneer Rack from UK.




r2


----------



## SirMarc

Looks like you can launch nukes from that thing lol


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> Traveling again tomorrow. Post tonight a photo of my sons Pioneer Rack from UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sweet, sweet, sweet!


----------



## AppleheadMay

The internals of my SX-1250.
 Might post a few more pics in a month or so when I have everything temporareily set-up.
 Going to have an MDF rack made for now so I can put all that gear somewhere.
 Full renovation of my home office next year. Oh I already dread it!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Meanwhile, a speaker question.
  
 Does anyone know the *Revel Performa3 Series F208*?
  
 Have been recommended those by one of our nice head-fiers, they fit the bill and look gorgeous (in glossy walnut) to me as well.
 Browsed through some very nice reviews of these.
 I know they're not vintage but thought I might toss it up here anyway.
 Will be used with Marantz PM-11 S3 as well as SX-1250.
 Needs to play hardrock with punch, vocal jazz with soul and classical with detail and extension.
 I don't need clean, I prefer musical.


----------



## headphones1999

appleheadmay said:


> Meanwhile, a speaker question.
> 
> Does anyone know the *Revel Performa3 Series F208*?
> 
> ...


 
 why not go on second hand?
 for 5K$ you can get better speakers for sure...


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> why not go on second hand?
> for 5K$ you can get better speakers for sure...


 
  
 I have no problem going second hand but do want some recent speakers.
 Not sure if a $10k speaker pair that sells for $5k would be better though, price alone isn't a good indication.
 Have you heard the Revels?


----------



## headphones1999

appleheadmay said:


> I have no problem going second hand but do want some recent speakers.
> Not sure if a $10k speaker pair that sells for $5k would be better though, price alone isn't a good indication.
> Have you heard the Revels?


 
 havent heard the revel, and i didnt say they are bad, i did a little reasarch myself and it seems they got very good.
 but I think that speakers 10-15 years old can offer much better VFM...
  
 Though it seems that the Revel can be found for pretty cheap!
 http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=8228700560&audioauktion=58c4c552118788e74f234154bca20a02


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> havent heard the revel, and i didnt say they are bad, i did a little reasarch myself and it seems they got very good.
> but I think that speakers 10-15 years old can offer much better VFM...
> 
> Though it seems that the Revel can be found for pretty cheap!
> http://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=8228700560&audioauktion=58c4c552118788e74f234154bca20a02


 
  
 Probably not the latest model. 
 Performa3 F208 is 5k€ here in Europe.
 Have mailed the distributor for a shop where I can audition them.


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> The internals of my SX-1250.
> Might post a few more pics in a month or so when I have everything temporareily set-up.
> Going to have an MDF rack made for now so I can put all that gear somewhere.
> Full renovation of my home office next year. Oh I already dread it!


 

  What a beauty she is .


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Probably not the latest model.
> Performa3 F208 is 5k€ here in Europe.
> Have mailed the distributor for a shop where I can audition them.


 

  There are lots of good speakers around for 5k . You should not have any problems finding some decent ones for that price .


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks!
Yup, just need to find the right ones for me.
The Revels seem like a great option but they can use a lot of juice and I prefer not to resort to switching amps even though Classe and Marantz makes them now.


----------



## BobG55

This is what the "Holy Grail" is selling for these days.  Fully serviced.  I truly envy those of you who own one.  The headphone experience must be out of this world.​ 270 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo), total harmonic distortion: 0.03% & damping factor: 40.  For anyone willing to listen (no pun intended) : I guarantee you that the HD650 w/ this amount of damping factor and harmonic distortion will still prove to be a top, high end headphone.  As a former member Uncle Erik once wrote about the HD650 : " the HD650 isn't veiled, most amps used with the HD650 are veiled."  I have a Kenwood KA-8006, 70WPC, w/ damping factor of 30 & total harmonic *distortion*: 0.2% & the HD650 sound incredible with it.  I can only dream of hearing them with this animal.  Copy & paste from eBay (or FleeBay as some like to call it.) 
  ​ 
 
$300.00
or Best Offer
  
 
From United States​
Customs services and international tracking provided​


 

​ 

Pioneer SX-1980 Professionally serviced, recapped, upgraded, LED == EXCELLENT == 
$5,299.00
or Best Offer
 33 watching


 
 ​


----------



## AppleheadMay

bobg55 said:


> [COLOR=333333]
> $300.00
> 
> or Best Offer
> ...




This one has been relisted a few times if I remeber it right.
And it's the dreaded 120V version.


----------



## BobG55

appleheadmay said:


> > ​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What is the dreaded 120V version ?


----------



## AppleheadMay

bobg55 said:


> What is the dreaded 120V version ?


 
  
 The one that doesn't work in my 240V wall sockets.


----------



## BobG55

appleheadmay said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > What is the dreaded 120V version ?
> ...


 

 I didn't verify your location before asking my question which is why it didn't make any sense to me initially & prompted me to ask.  Ah yes, the dreaded 240V wall sockets.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Two years ago my wife & I were in Prague and I had to buy a 240V adapter form my MacBook Pro.  Cost me a substantial amount of money if I remember but I had no choice.


----------



## AppleheadMay

bobg55 said:


> I didn't verify your location before asking my question which is why it didn't make any sense to me initially & prompted me to ask.  Ah yes, the dreaded 240V wall sockets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Then they ripped you off. MBP adapters are 100-240V and can be used anywhere in the world either with changing the plug by means of an Apple Travel Adapter Kit or simply using a travel plug converter.


----------



## BobG55

appleheadmay said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't verify your location before asking my question which is why it didn't make any sense to me initially & prompted me to ask.  Ah yes, the dreaded 240V wall sockets.
> ...


 

 Yes well when you're stuck and you absolutely need your laptop I guess they see you coming especially when one is "technical savvy" challenged as I am.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Sansui C-2301 + B-2301. Any opinions?
My reason for asking: I may be interested in those Revel F208s. For that I'll need an amp with a lot of grunt.
I would actually prefer a new amp instead of vintage but one that stays somehow affordable.
Does anyone know of such new amps? Or should I go straight for that Sansui combo?


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Sansui C-2301 + B-2301. Any opinions?
> My reason for asking: I may be interested in those Revel F208s. For that I'll need an amp with a lot of grunt.
> I would actually prefer a new amp instead of vintage but one that stays somehow affordable.
> Does anyone know of such new amps? Or should I go straight for that Sansui combo?


 

  What kind of money do you want to spend ? That has a lot to do with what is available these days at least at a reasonable price  . Your pioneer should be able to drive the revels decently I imagine . I checked out the sansuii it looks impressive with over double the power into a 4 ohm load . If the amp is in decent shape and or can be refurbished at a reasonable price it could be serviceable for the revels . I am not familiar with the sansuii separates I have heard some of their receivers notably the 9090 and 8080 along with the 881. They were not bad sounding but were not in the same league as my concept 16. 5 .
    I wish you luck .


----------



## Mechans1

What is your budget in dollars?  There are lists of current production integrated amps selling for $2,0000 or $3,000 and less, compiled by various magazines.  If the Sansui separates are selling for less than $1,000 I would be surprised. There are lists below a grand as well I believe.  
 The sound is always a matter of taste .  I own a  Sansui AU  717  integrated  and  couple of Sansui tuners.  It's nice to have these pieces but they are not in heavy use. 
 You owe it to yourself to audition the gear you're thinking  of going with.  Let the* Sound *make up your mind .


----------



## AppleheadMay

buson160man said:


> What kind of money do you want to spend ? That has a lot to do with what is available these days at least at a reasonable price  . Your pioneer should be able to drive the revels decently I imagine . I checked out the sansuii it looks impressive with over double the power into a 4 ohm load . If the amp is in decent shape and or can be refurbished at a reasonable price it could be serviceable for the revels . I am not familiar with the sansuii separates I have heard some of their receivers notably the 9090 and 8080 along with the 881. They were not bad sounding but were not in the same league as my concept 16. 5 .
> I wish you luck .


 


mechans1 said:


> What is your budget in dollars?  There are lists of current production integrated amps selling for $2,0000 or $3,000 and less, compiled by various magazines.  If the Sansui separates are selling for less than $1,000 I would be surprised. There are lists below a grand as well I believe.
> The sound is always a matter of taste .  I own a  Sansui AU  717  integrated  and  couple of Sansui tuners.  It's nice to have these pieces but they are not in heavy use.
> You owe it to yourself to audition the gear you're thinking  of going with.  Let the* Sound *make up your mind .


 
  
 Well, my dollars are usually sufficient and I can always sell off some other gear.
 However, since this week my number one cat (my only son) has been diagnosed with cancer after which I managed to total my car, driving around in anger  with a bad case of FTW mentality. Yep, it's totalled, front axl broken and the front bumper alone with distance and infrared sonsors costs about 5k€. Not to mention the rest of the damage.
  

  
 But to answer your questions:
 To power the Revel F208s I'd want something with 300WPC.
 With the brands I know that would be a Marantz Legendary set, found a full one (preamp + 2 monoblocs) for 12k€. A nice price for a system like that but a bit above my budget for now.
 The Sasnui kit  C-2301 + B-2301 is also 300W and costs 4900€ but I wonder if it's any good since it's from the nineties.
 Both sets are in Scandinavia which is to far for me to audition and even if I did so I wouldn't be able to hear them with the Revels.
 I do have a 9090, an SX-1250 and a PM-11 S3. But from what i hear those speakers need a lot of power, they have a serious impedance dip in the low-mid-bass.
  
@Mechans1 : do these 2-3k amps deliver 300WPC? Should I be looking at used Krells or do those sound too harsh?


----------



## i luvmusic 2

.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jnorris said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > This i'am interested.
> ...


 
 Yes and Thank you!


----------



## buson160man

appleheadmay said:


> Well, my dollars are usually sufficient and I can always sell off some other gear.
> However, since this week my number one cat (my only son) has been diagnosed with cancer after which I managed to total my car, driving around in anger  with a bad case of FTW mentality. Yep, it's totalled, front axl broken and the front bumper alone with distance and infrared sonsors costs about 5k€. Not to mention the rest of the damage.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I do not know what a parasound amp like the 400 watt mono blocks sell for in your area but I imagine they would be pretty decent . Their higher powered stereo amps would probably be pretty decent if the mono blocks are too pricey. You might consider some older Threshold amplifiers . I used to have a Stasus 3  it was a pretty decent amp in its day . But it put out only150 watts a channel . Symphonic line also makes some mono block amps that are not too expensive. They are the low cost alternatives to their more expensive line . They are part of the lower cost oddesy line . I am not sure about the spelling of oddesy


----------



## Monsterzero

appleheadmay said:


> Well, my dollars are usually sufficient and I can always sell off some other gear.
> However, since this week my number one cat (my only son) has been diagnosed with cancer after which I managed to total my car, driving around in anger  with a bad case of FTW mentality. Yep, it's totalled, front axl broken and the front bumper alone with distance and infrared sonsors costs about 5k€. Not to mention the rest of the damage.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry about your son


----------



## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> Sorry about your son




Much appreciated!
I know many people don't think about cats like that and I can usually take it better as well, it's not the first one I'm losing one.
But I have nice and particular history with this little one and he sleeps in my arms every night.
I'll make sure the time he has left will be as good as it gets for him.


----------



## Feilong4

Would it be best to have a long (10-20 ft) RCA to RCA cable to the receiver, or a long (10-20 ft) USB to USB B cable so I can place my DAC closer to the receiver?
  
 Basically, which option would produce the least noise floor?
  
 It will be going from laptop to DAC (ifi Nano iDSD) to Receiver (thinking of getting a vintage Sansui receiver).
  
 Thanks!


----------



## AppleheadMay

feilong4 said:


> Would it be best to have a long (10-20 ft) RCA to RCA cable to the receiver, or a long (10-20 ft) USB to USB B cable so I can place my DAC closer to the receiver?
> 
> Basically, which option would produce the least noise floor?
> 
> ...




As far as my knowledge goes usb is produced in 5m maximum and not recommended above 4m.
Long RCAs aren't a good idea either, that's what XLR is fo but your vintage receiver won't accept that.
Cn't you put the two close together and use an old Mac Mini (or Windows variant) as a dedicated music server?
If you use Macs the old ones are better since you can upgrade the RAM yourselfand put two drives in it if you wish.
You could control it with remote desktop.
Long speaker runs are no problem by the way.

If you have no other choice than those two I would opt for the longer RCA cable but I wouldn't go much longer than 10ft.


----------



## Benny-x

appleheadmay said:


> As far as my knowledge goes usb is produced in 5m maximum and not recommended above 4m.
> Long RCAs aren't a good idea either, that's what XLR is fo but your vintage receiver won't accept that.
> Cn't you put the two close together and use an old Mac Mini (or Windows variant) as a dedicated music server?
> If you use Macs the old ones are better since you can upgrade the RAM yourselfand put two drives in it if you wish.
> ...


 
 You could also use a USB hub like a repeater. This is a common work-around for needing to stretch out a USB connection. Or get one of those new, $30-70 USB-over-optical boxes or a USB-over-ethernet box. All the same idea, the later 2 include a type of "reclocking" and on other parts of the web have been said to improve the USB signal your DAC receives.
  
 Any one of those are what I'd go with.


----------



## headphones1999

Has anyone ever heard of a japanese company named Orphic?

  
 There is nothing about this company on google...
 can get it for about 60$


----------



## r2muchstuff

I was traveling last Saturday, arrived at home last night.  This is an SX-850 that was CLA'ed and gifted to my niece and husband .


----------



## Fearless1

Hi guys!

Got a quick question. Does anyone have any experience with a Yamaha M-2 amplifier? 

Found one fairly cheap and in phenominal shape. The guy I am buying it from raved about it, I like the adjustable gains and the internals look well built, but Yamaha had some crappy years between the vintage stuff and the modern offerings(both I love).


Thanks in advance for any input!


----------



## Mechans1

fearless1 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Got a quick question. Does anyone have any experience with a Yamaha M-2 amplifier?
> 
> ...


 
 I Googled it.  Read a few comments, and it does seem to incorporate some new and apparently less desirable approach.  The Vintage Knob had the stats.  Sounds like it is a very powerful amp indeed.


----------



## Fearless1

mechans1 said:


> I Googled it.  Read a few comments, and it does seem to incorporate some new and apparently less desirable approach.  The Vintage Knob had the stats.  Sounds like it is a very powerful amp indeed.




Yeah, I did as well to pretty positive reviews. I asked here because after a few years of reading this thread I've become accustomed to some individual tastes that present themselves. I appreciate the Yamaha sound, so I did purchase it and will pick up in a couple of days.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Found a Goodmans Module 80 for 20 quid sold as parts and repairs as it had its power cord cut off. 30 minutes spent replacing it and it works perfectly fine and it's not a bad sound either!


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Found a Goodmans Module 80 for 20 quid sold as parts and repairs as it had its power cord cut off. 30 minutes spent replacing it and it works perfectly fine and it's not a bad sound either!


 
 The wood looks awesome, nice find


----------



## r2muchstuff

A handsome and fine sounding SA 9100 & TX 9100.
  

  
 r2


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice!  Congrats r2muchstuff!


----------



## BucketInABucket

Wondering whether to go for a Kenwood KA-6000 integrated or Pioneer SX-828 receiver for my third rig to power a pair of LS3/5As, hmm...
  
 Edit: Saw a Kenwood Eleven ii; as long as it's not relying on ICs, I'm ok with adding this to the list too.


----------



## Fearless1

fearless1 said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> Got a quick question. Does anyone have any experience with a Yamaha M-2 amplifier?
> 
> ...




BTW in case anyone is looking for a killer budget amp, the M-2 is fantastic. Extremely transparent. Really does not sound "Yamaha like" in the least. Weighs more then my 7 year old and is almost as loud!


----------



## Mechans1

I had always thought that a lot of  Yamaha gear was sort of  a step up between the stuff I could get like a Kenwood integrated and the high end gear, (pick your favorite expensive electronics manufacturer for a comparator.) So I guess I liked the Yamaha 'house sound'/ I know that not everything Yamaha made was not all that special, but most seemed to be high quality.
 I am not sure any advice is needed but I always thought the LS3/5As sound best with plenty of clean power behind them.  So whichever piece has the most  power might merit serious consideration.


----------



## SpeakerBox

mechans1 said:


> I had always thought that a lot of  Yamaha gear was sort of  a step up between the stuff I could get like a Kenwood integrated and the high end gear, (pick your favorite expensive electronics manufacturer for a comparator.) So I guess I liked the Yamaha 'house sound'/ I know that not everything Yamaha made was not all that special, but most seemed to be high quality.
> I am not sure any advice is needed but I always thought the LS3/5As sound best with plenty of clean power behind them.  So whichever piece has the most  power might merit serious consideration.


 
  
 I have a pair of LS3/5A clones that I built roughly 35 years ago - designed by a guy named David Barnett and published in speaker builder or some such magazine.  I made some improvements to the crossover myself by using better parts and also did some additional vibration deadening to the enclosure.  I recently pulled them out of storage and hooked them up to my SX1250.  They sound fantastic!  Mainly because the efficiency of the B110 woofer and T27 tweeter are knocked way down in exchange for added bass response, and the Pioneer can easily compensate for that with its boat load of power.  These may end up replacing my Advents as I forgot how great they sound.


----------



## Skylab

I have a pair of Spendor LS3/5A's connected to my SX-1980 for when I'm sitting at my desk. They sound awesome.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Mmm I'm leaning more and more towards that Kenwood amp as it's capable of some very good things


----------



## SirMarc

bucketinabucket said:


> Wondering whether to go for a Kenwood KA-6000 integrated or Pioneer SX-828 receiver for my third rig to power a pair of LS3/5As, hmm...
> 
> Edit: Saw a Kenwood Eleven ii; as long as it's not relying on ICs, I'm ok with adding this to the list too.



Those model elevens are in my opinion the coolest looking receivers of the seventies. I'd jump all over a model eleven 1, 2 or 3 if I saw one on looks alone


----------



## SpeakerBox




----------



## BucketInABucket

sirmarc said:


> Those model elevens are in my opinion the coolest looking receivers of the seventies. I'd jump all over a model eleven 1, 2 or 3 if I saw one on looks alone


 
 I would've as well were it not for the early ICs ruining the sound and making them incredibly hard to service. Now torn between the KA-6000 and 6004!


----------



## r2muchstuff

I have the KA 7002  (50w/ch both ch driven 8 Ohm = ?RMS), KM 8002 (110w/ch RMS) and KT 7001 stack.  The KA serves as the pre for the KM.  1971 vintage.
  
 They all work however, they are in line for a Tec visit and at least a CLA.
  
 Can not comment on SQ yet.
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

There's a very clean looking Sony str-v4 local for really cheap. Looks pretty cool with the green backlighting. Any thoughts?


----------



## SirMarc

sirmarc said:


> There's a very clean looking Sony str-v4 local for really cheap. Looks pretty cool with the green backlighting. Any thoughts?



Read some very nice things about it on AK. May pick it up. If I do, I'll let you guys know how it sounds


----------



## BucketInABucket

sirmarc said:


> Read some very nice things about it on AK. May pick it up. If I do, I'll let you guys know how it sounds


 

  
 Speaking of sony, I have a Sony STR-6060FW in my main rig now and I'm not letting it go for anything!

 Absolute beauty with new LED fuse lamp lights replacing the old burnt-out incandescent ones.


----------



## SirMarc

This is a picture from the seller. Looks to be in good shape. I may do it


----------



## SirMarc

Supposedly it sounds better than the big brothers because its all discrete, no op amps


----------



## SirMarc

bucketinabucket said:


> Speaking of sony, I have a Sony STR-6060FW in my main rig now and I'm not letting it go for anything!
> 
> 
> Absolute beauty with new LED fuse lamp lights replacing the old burnt-out incandescent ones.



Good for you man. That's supposed to sound very close to the Mac stuff from that era


----------



## BucketInABucket

sirmarc said:


> Good for you man. That's supposed to sound very close to the Mac stuff from that era


 
 Never heard any Mac gear but it's beaten my Tandberg TR-2025L, Rotel RX-802 and Harman Kardon 930 so far so it's damn good even stock.


----------



## PhoenixG

Oh man I love the Sony gear from that era so much! Such great sound. I have 2 STR-6120's as my 'small rig' amplification (but it totally is every inch as good as anything higher power I have), and have given as gifts a 6040, a 6060, and a 6065. Loved them all.
 Really nice voicing that has held up well. Great build quality and internals. High quality parts. Just good all around.
I say to go for it!


----------



## SirMarc

Missed it by a day, the guy just sold it. Oh well. All good though, still in love with my 9090. The cool thing is I've got him hunting for a Sony 6060 and a Sansui Eight Deluxe for me. Wish me luck...


----------



## AppleheadMay

In case anybody in Europe would be interested in these:
  
 https://www.hifi.nl/tweedehands/10009361/Sansui-C2301-met-B2301-PREPRO-absolute-High-End..html
 https://www.hifi.nl/tweedehands/10009221/Tekoop-unieke-Sansui-SR-929-Draaitafel-Turntable....-in-uniek-goede-staat...-zeer-zeldzaam.html
  
 Not sure if prices are right but as far as I know they should be in really good condition.
 Have been in contact with the seller of the amp. Price still negotiable but I don't know for how much.
 To be clear: they're not mine and I don't know the people selling them.
 Together seems like a dream set to me but I have something else in mind for my speaker system.


----------



## jnorris

Gentlemen, speaking of Sansui...
  
  
 http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/ele/5646262903.html
  
 and
  
  
 http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/ele/5648010910.html
  
 Let the drooling begin!


----------



## vapman

Since my Hafler DH-500 is temporarily in storage I grabbed a Technics SU-V76 off Craigslist for $25. ended up coming with some free bookshelf speakers too! Nothing great but that's cool.
  
 It sounds surprisingly nice. i've been bashing integrateds for a while but it really is nice with a set of nice passive speakers. 100w output I think, the super bass is phenomenal though! That's staying on permanently, damn something good is going on in the preamp section here!
  
 And it has the outward bouncing LED lights for level indicator I missed so much from the Yamaha M4.
  
 Could post pics but there's not a lot to see that you can't google 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







 Maybe if I do some cool mod to it then i'll post it.
  
 There's lots of good sansui on my craigslist but I wanted something cheap to hold me over, this is way better than what I expected to get!
  
 edit: I had a NAD integrated around but I hate it so much I went shopping on CL instead. I'd sell the dang NAD but it used to be my dad's.
  
 edit 2: Dang, this thing has a surprisingly good headphone output! I've heard integrated/preamps way, way way way above the price point of this I didn't think had as good headphone outputs. Tons power, makes my SZ2000's rattle. Nice clear tone. However now I am tempted to do a lot of work on it to make it the best it can be, replace the old dusty pots etc, but that'll have to wait since I need to get my Hafler in working shape before I take another set of speakers out of commission...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Is it just the NAD integrated you don't like - or are there other vintage units you don't like?
  
 Have not heard too many people here get to excited about old NAD stuff other than the 3020 which was quite good if working properly.


----------



## vapman

speakerbox said:


> Is it just the NAD integrated you don't like - or are there other vintage units you don't like?
> 
> Have not heard too many people here get to excited about old NAD stuff other than the 3020 which was quite good if working properly.


 

 I didn't like that NAD system a lot, cause it had thats 70s hifi veil.
 Afterwards I had heard a couple other NAD systems... found them decent at best.
 Even hi-fi systems using NAD preamps, when the preamps were replaced, I always thought the NAD was the bottleneck.
 So I dunno, it might just be me not liking them, even though I grew up with them.
 I've ventured into vintage Yamaha Natural Sound, Hafler and GAS (Great American Sound) and been very happy with all.
 and now Technics, and have a very positive impression of the Technics, once i get the rest of my system restored i'd love to see how far I can push this Technics with upgrades.
  
 I've heard tons of vintage stuff I thought was garbage, IMO there isn't a lot worth getting excited about in the low-mid wattage range unless it can push low frequencies or is unusually efficient or otherwise impressive. I like a lot of the high wattage stuff with caps bigger than a can of beer! I'm more into pro audio type stuff though so I am more biased towards stuff like Crown amps etc and vintage preamps


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well, if you like GAS and Hafler I am guessing the problem is not your ears.
  
 Agreed not all vintage is good, but there are some gems out there from Pioneer, Kenwood, Concept, Sansui and the like.  Your ears will certainly tell you when you hit on one.
  
 I actually hated the sound of my SX1250 until I did a recap - that can make all the difference.


----------



## vapman

speakerbox said:


> Well, if you like GAS and Hafler I am guessing the problem is not your ears.
> 
> Agreed not all vintage is good, but there are some gems out there from Pioneer, Kenwood, Concept, Sansui and the like.  Your ears will certainly tell you when you hit on one.
> 
> *I actually hated the sound of my SX1250 until I did a recap - that can make all the difference.*


 
 I agree with all your post completely, hope I didn't come across as making too many blanket statements in my post, haha.
  
 To be honest I've never heard a Sansui in my life... i've definitely heard good Pioneer and Kenwood in the past.
  
 And I bolded your last sentence because I've been keeping that NAD 3130 around just in case a full recap makes me like it? If not, then I can sell it to someone who will like it I guess...


----------



## buson160man

speakerbox said:


> Is it just the NAD integrated you don't like - or are there other vintage units you don't like?
> 
> Have not heard too many people here get to excited about old NAD stuff other than the 3020 which was quite good if working properly.


 
  Nad did make some pretty decent sounding units back in the day. I used to have two nad c 370 integrated amps that I used. I used one for each channel which in effect were pseudo mono blocks . They worked fairly well in that set up sounding better than a single unit. But eventually I got tired of the clutter and moved on to other things .


----------



## SpeakerBox

buson160man said:


> Nad did make some pretty decent sounding units back in the day. I used to have two nad c 370 integrated amps that I used. I used one for each channel which in effect were pseudo mono blocks . They worked fairly well in that set up sounding better than a single unit. But eventually I got tired of the clutter and moved on to other things .


 
  
 Agree.  I have a NAD M15 as my main home theater preprocessor and it sounds pretty good.
  
 It has an analog bypass mode that I use for stereo listening that lets the signal go through pretty much unmolested.


----------



## BucketInABucket

speakerbox said:


> Well, if you like GAS and Hafler I am guessing the problem is not your ears.
> 
> *Agreed not all vintage is good*, but there are some gems out there from Pioneer, Kenwood, Concept, Sansui and the like.  Your ears will certainly tell you when you hit on one.
> 
> I actually hated the sound of my SX1250 until I did a recap - that can make all the difference.


 
 The ones with ICs especially are pretty overrated imo :s


----------



## r2muchstuff

Follow Up on the Kenwood discussion:
  

  
 In Que for CLA.
  
 r2


----------



## BucketInABucket

r2muchstuff said:


> Follow Up on the Kenwood discussion:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Want. Very. Much. Want.


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Follow Up on the Kenwood discussion:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's cool. I love the Kenwood integrateds. I'm on the lookout for one.


----------



## vapman

OK That Kenwood system looks pretty sick, I'll make a mental note to stay on the watch for one that looks nice 
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> Agree.  I have a NAD M15 as my main home theater preprocessor and it sounds pretty good.
> 
> It has an analog bypass mode that I use for stereo listening that lets the signal go through pretty much unmolested.


 

 Not arguing, but is that more or less using it like a passive preamp then?


----------



## r2muchstuff

KT 7001 Tuner
  
 KA 7002 Integrated Amp (50w/ch both ch driven 8 Ohm = ?RMS)
  
 KM 8002 Power Amp (110w/ch RMS)  The KA serves as the pre for the KM, with a/b switch either amp may be utilized.
  
 1971 vintage.


----------



## SirMarc

Been listening to music all day and gotta tell you guys, the 9090 is endgame for me for my main rig. Clean, detailed and punchy with just the right amount of warmth, but the standout feature is the soundstage, especially with vinyl. Its incredibly three dimensional with my HD650's and Dahlquist DQ20's. If you guys can find one at a reasonable price, run and grab one, and thank me later.


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Been listening to music all day and gotta tell you guys, the 9090 is endgame for me for my main rig. Clean, detailed and punchy with just the right amount of warmth, but the standout feature is the soundstage, especially with vinyl. Its incredibly three dimensional with my HD650's and Dahlquist DQ20's. If you guys can find one at a reasonable price, run and grab one, and thank me later.


 
  
 I got my Denon turntable and Infinity speakers back yesterday.
 Will compare my 3 speaker amps (PM11- S3, SX-1250, 9090) on the Infinitys this week.
 Will also compare headphone amps (Zana, BW, Aiwa-7060, SX-1250 and 9090) with the phones I know best, the LA-900s.
  
 But the 9090 sure is a looker, man I love those meters!


----------



## SpeakerBox

vapman said:


> Not arguing, but is that more or less using it like a passive preamp then?


 
  
 Yes, passive with a remote volume control.  I feed my Pass DIY B1 buffer into that input and use it as an input selector/phono stage (Leach phono stage is included in the same box with B1).
  
 The Pass has very high input impedance and very low output impedance and drives the passive NAD input very well.  Sound is outstanding.
  
 The icing on the cake is the NAD then going to my two Rowland M1s via Kimber Heros (M1s in bridged mono/at least 240WPC).  The M1s feed some speakers I designed and have been tweaking for ever.


----------



## vapman

speakerbox said:


> Yes, passive with a remote volume control.  I feed my Pass DIY B1 buffer into that input and use it as an input selector/phono stage (Leach phono stage is included in the same box with B1).
> 
> The Pass has very high input impedance and very low output impedance and drives the passive NAD input very well.  Sound is outstanding.
> 
> The icing on the cake is the NAD then going to my two Rowland M1s via Kimber Heros (M1s in bridged mono/at least 240WPC).  The M1s feed some speakers I designed and have been tweaking for ever.


 

 Worth keeping my eyes open for one or look for other stuff at this point?
 I maybe adding a second DH500 into my setup soon to run them each in mono 
  
 The Nikko and Sansui 9090 are very different, right? Cause there's a Nikko one about an hour's drive from me for $200.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> I got my Denon turntable and Infinity speakers back yesterday.
> Will compare my 3 speaker amps (PM11- S3, SX-1250, 9090) on the Infinitys this week.
> Will also compare headphone amps (Zana, BW, Aiwa-7060, SX-1250 and 9090) with the phones I know best, the LA-900s.
> 
> But the 9090 sure is a looker, man I love those meters!



Yeah man, I love vu meters!


----------



## vapman

My old GAS Son of Ampzilla had awesome VU meters.


----------



## SirMarc

vapman said:


> Worth keeping my eyes open for one or look for other stuff at this point?
> I maybe adding a second DH500 into my setup soon to run them each in mono
> 
> The Nikko and Sansui 9090 are very different, right? Cause there's a Nikko one about an hour's drive from me for $200.



Not sure about the Nikko, but the 9090 was Sansui's TOTL receiver in 75, and I can't recommend one enough. They're not cheap these days for a nice one though...


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Yeah man, I love vu meters!


 
  
 Me too, but it's not only that. The black and silver front + the two different colors of the lights make the 9090 more beautiful than the SX-1250 IMO.
 Of course, the Pioneer does have moar powah. Will test just how much more with the Kappas this week. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Still, all vintage is beautiful. I can just sit here and enjoy looking at this beautiful gear. They don't make em like that anymore.


----------



## SpeakerBox

vapman said:


> Worth keeping my eyes open for one or look for other stuff at this point?
> I maybe adding a second DH500 into my setup soon to run them each in mono
> 
> The Nikko and Sansui 9090 are very different, right? Cause there's a Nikko one about an hour's drive from me for $200.


 
  
 I would not be looking for an M15 unless you need it to support a home theater.  If fact I have pretty much decided HT is a waste of time and when the M15 dies I won't be replacing it.  I will just use the B1 as my preamp.


----------



## vapman

sirmarc said:


> Not sure about the Nikko, but the 9090 was Sansui's TOTL receiver in 75, and I can't recommend one enough. They're not cheap these days for a nice one though...


 

 did my own research - the nikko puts out a fraction of the power and has a freq range of 20hz-50khz instead of 10hz-30khz.... i'll hold out for a sansui.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Me too, but it's not only that. The black and silver front + the two different colors of the lights make the 9090 more beautiful than the SX-1250 IMO.
> Of course, the Pioneer does have moar powah. Will test just how much more with the Kappas this week. :wink_face:
> 
> Still, all vintage is beautiful. I can just sit here and enjoy looking at this beautiful gear. They don't make em like that anymore.



No offense to the Pioneer guys here, but I find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking. Skylabs 3900 is pretty cool looking though. I'm a sucker for blue and green backlighting and meters.

Edit: doesn't mean I wouldn't jump all over an sx1250 if I saw one cheap though lol


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> No offense to the Pioneer guys here, but I find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking. Skylabs 3900 is pretty cool looking though. I'm a sucker for blue and green backlighting and meters


 
  
 Yes, the xx50 series is pretty bland looking.   The sound however is another story.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Yes, the xx50 series is pretty bland looking.   The sound however is another story.



I've only heard a 550 and an 850, but going off the 850, I prefer the Sansui house sound. I would love to hear a 1250 though...


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> No offense to the Pioneer guys here, but I find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking. Skylabs 3900 is pretty cool looking though. I'm a sucker for blue and green backlighting and meters.
> 
> Edit: doesn't mean I wouldn't jump all over an sx1250 if I saw one cheap though lol


 


speakerbox said:


> Yes, the xx50 series is pretty bland looking.   The sound however is another story.


 
  
  
 Indeed. But I do find the 1980 and 3900 both equally good looking, the 1250 a bit less. The 9090 wins for me.
 Soundwise I guess it'd be a battle between the 1250 and 1980.


----------



## vapman

I'll keep both those on my mental watch lists


----------



## SpeakerBox

The 1250 is the best I have heard, but will confess I have not heard a 1980.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> The 1250 is the best I have heard, but will confess I have not heard a 1980.


 
  
  
 Skylab is one of the few who had both I think. Or still has a 1980, not sure about the 1250.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think he had a 1250 at one time but considered the 1980 to be end game.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> I think he had a 1250 at one time but considered the 1980 to be end game.


 
  
  
 I think he posted something here about the 1250 vs.1980. Can't seem to find it back though.
 Maybe it was in a PM, I'll see if I can find it.
 Would be nice to have his opnion here in the thread though, he has a lot of experience with vintage gear and Pioneer.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Ah, found two quotes from him in this thread anyway:
  


> @AppleheadMay The 1280 is every bit as good sounding as the 1980. I had a restored 1280 and loved it. I freely admit I stepped up to the 1980 just because I wanted to. There really wasn't any real sonic benefit.


 
  


> I have had several of those. My Marantz was the 2285. I also had an SX-1250, and a Sansui 9090DB. They all sounded excellent in their own way. All of mine had been restored recapped except the 1250, because of course I went the SX-1980 route in the end. Inspite of the restore, I had periodic issues with the DB board in my 9090DB which caused intermittent channel level problems. I would actually recommend a straight 9090 over the DB. But I personally liked the Pioneer...


----------



## BucketInABucket

Personally, I don't see the point of so much power so I've only owned sub-100W gear. The most powerful is my CR-1020 at 70W but I need to fix the power supply first before I start using it properly.


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> Indeed. But I do find the 1980 and 3900 both equally good looking, the 1250 a bit less. The 9090 wins for me.
> Soundwise I guess it'd be a battle between the 1250 and 1980.


 
 I've had a completely redone sx-1980 and I preferred a a sansui G-33000 to it sonically. The 1980 has since found a new home while the sansui is here for good.


----------



## roadcykler

bucketinabucket said:


> Personally, I don't see the point of so much power so I've only owned sub-100W gear. The most powerful is my CR-1020 at 70W but I need to fix the power supply first before I start using it properly.


 
  
 Some people have the mistaken thought that more power = better sound.


----------



## Hutnicks

roadcykler said:


> Some people have the mistaken thought that more power = better sound.


 
 We used to do a poop and giggle demo driving Vandersteen Ones with a NAP 120 pushing a full 40 watts


----------



## BucketInABucket

roadcykler said:


> Some people have the mistaken thought that more power = better sound.


 
 You get people enamored with EL84 amps on the order of 10 or less watts after all


----------



## SX3900

sirmarc said:


> No offense to the Pioneer guys here, but I find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking. Skylabs 3900 is pretty cool looking though. I'm a sucker for blue and green backlighting and meters.
> 
> Edit: doesn't mean I wouldn't jump all over an sx1250 if I saw one cheap though lol


 
 " find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking"
 My guess you have never seen Pioneer's VSX-D1S
 With 160 watts/channel
 I have two of those.


----------



## vapman

sx3900 said:


> " find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking"
> My guess you have never seen Pioneer's VSX-D1S
> With 160 watts/channel
> I have two of those.


 

 That's an awful lot of S-Video for the era, isn't it?
 Neat looking receiver, i've never seen it before, now I want one, haha!
  
 Re: power requirements, wattage definitely makes a difference if you're pushing a huge subwoofer  but if not i agree, a very nice low wattage design can beat it, but usually it's cheaper/easier to find something that can push tons of power and get your extra headroom and whatnot that way...  i at least gravitated towards higher wattage stuff when i was trying to power giant speakers like Tannoy DMT series.


----------



## SirMarc

sx3900 said:


> " find most Pioneer receivers after the mid seventies to be plain looking"
> My guess you have never seen Pioneer's VSX-D1S
> With 160 watts/channel
> I have two of those.



Talking about 70's-early 80's silver face gear


----------



## Skylab

I had a very nice but not recapped SX-1250. I thought it sounded slightly better than an unrestored SX-1980. But the fully recapped and restored SX-1980 was a revelation, and so I stuck with it. At the time I also had a fully restored ' recapped Sansui 9090 and Marantz 2285, and I preferred the sound of the 1980 over both of those, so I sold them. But they were both excellent in their own right.


----------



## headphones1999

Aksed my cousin to pick up for me this Fisher amp and I will come take it next week, of course asked for pictures, so this is what he sent:

  
 my reaction was of course:

  
 Anyway its a a FIsher amp named TX300, i have absolutely no idea what i should expect from it, and the guy who sold it to me said it wasnt woking last time he tried, might be only fuze, or it might be needing some serious work. either way i will make it work again.
 wish me luck ^^


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> Aksed my cousin to pick up for me this Fisher amp and I will come take it next week, of course asked for pictures, so this is what he sent:
> 
> 
> my reaction was of course:
> ...


 
  
 That's the Japenese version of the Fisher TX300 by the way. The feet are on top because it's on the other side of the world which enables it to stand on the floor instead of the ceiling.


----------



## headphones1999

appleheadmay said:


> That's the Japenese version of the Fisher TX300 by the way. The feet are on top because it's on the other side of the world which enables it to stand on the floor instead of the ceiling.


 
 XD
 made my day (which was already good)
  
 gonna call him now to tell him that I was wrong


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphones1999 said:


> XD
> made my day (which was already good)
> 
> gonna call him now to tell him that I was wrong


 
  
 Ask him to screw off the feet and attach them to the underside.


----------



## headphones1999

appleheadmay said:


> Ask him to screw off the feet and attach them to the underside.


 
 No thanks, as far as i know him, he will probably screw it diectly to the power supply


----------



## headphones1999

double post


----------



## BucketInABucket

Looks like I'll have to eat my words about not owning anything above 100W as I just snagged an Akai AA-1200 with 120 watts per channel for a cool 81 pounds


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Looks like I'll have to eat my words about not owning anything above 100W as I just snagged an Akai AA-1200 with 120 watts per channel for a cool 81 pounds


 
 awesome, akai made some very nice stuff...
  
 I think its worth fully recaping.


----------



## AppleheadMay

bucketinabucket said:


> Looks like I'll have to eat my words about not owning anything above 100W as I just snagged an Akai AA-1200 with 120 watts per channel for a cool 81 pounds


 
  
 Congrats!
 If the headphone output is anything like my little Akai AX-7600 (fully restored and recapped) you're in for a real treat!


----------



## headphones1999

Another picture i got from him at the same time, there is something that is botherng me,those parts, 50% look alright and 50% doesnt look in a doesnt look in good shape, have u guys seen something like this before?


----------



## Bob A (SD)

A bit of thread drift.  I had pulled my 1980 vintage Phase Linear 3000 Series II preamp out of storage to check the headphone circuit and posted about it in this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/537704/calling-all-vintage-integrated-receiver-owners/16080#post_12559107 ).  I also have pulled out my vintage 1993 Philips CDC-935 carousel CD player (SAA7341 1-bit 192x DAC, CDM12.1/0 transport) which was known for a "high grade" variable headphone amplifier circuit among other things.
  
 Typical comments found about it:  _"This player features the very nice Philips CDM 12 transport , which is used in some of the best CD, and subsequently more expensive CD players, an example would be the Marantz CD-17. This CDP is not your run of the mill "cheapy" CD player. It was made at a time w CD players were of great significance in a hi-fi system. This can be seen in it's build quality and the sound quality of this player. It has a phenomenal headphone output stage and sounds open, dynamic and quite musical for a CD changer."_
  
 After checking the functionality of the player (everything works as it should save the remote despite new batteries), I auditioned the headphone circuit with my HD600s.  It drove them effortlessly and despite the age and ancient DAC it provided very very satisfying SQ.  So much so that I moved it from storage into my home theater equipment rack where I'll use it for CDs as opposed to having my Oppo DV-980H DVD player do double duty.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 As an aside I had originally retired the CDC-935 in 2003 with an Eastsound CD-E5 deck used as a transport with a dAck! v2.0 outboard TDA1545A R-2R filterless DAC which is still used in my main stereo system.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

My SA-7700 is finally back from the shop after few months and WOW!What a difference after it's been cleaned and replaced all the electrolytic caps.


----------



## vapman

headphones1999 said:


> Another picture i got from him at the same time, there is something that is botherng me,those parts, 50% look alright and 50% doesnt look in a doesnt look in good shape, have u guys seen something like this before?


 
 Makes me feel like it's based on an old dynaco design or something.
 Those rca jacks might be too close to each other for comfort/usual cables.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bob a (sd) said:


> I also have pulled out my vintage 1993 Philips CDC-935 carousel CD player (SAA7341 1-bit 192x DAC, CDM12.1/0 transport) which was known for a "high grade" variable headphone amplifier circuit among other things.


 
  
 Similar experience here.  I just pulled my Rotel RCD 855 out of storage - 25 years old.  It had problems with intermittent operation so after digging around a bit I discovered that the +/- 5V supply was toast.  After a recap of the power supply and replacing the +/-5V regulators and a Zener it is up and running.  It also uses a well respected Phillips transport and has a very good DAC chip. This thing now sounds fabulous and absolutely slaps my Sony NS999ES (now doing man cave duty) for Redbook playback.  There are a ton of mods I could do to the Rotel and may be going down that path in the future.  No HP jack though - can't have everything.


----------



## vapman

I saw that exact model Rotel CD player at a flea market for $20... still regret not getting it!
 I did get a Sony D5-A and a Creative Zen Jukebox that day though for  $10 altogether.


----------



## SpeakerBox

vapman said:


> I saw that exact model Rotel CD player at a flea market for $20... still regret not getting it!
> I did get a Sony D5-A and a Creative Zen Jukebox that day though for  $10 altogether.


 
  
 Ya, that would have been a deal for 20 bucks.  I see them going for $200 on ebay.


----------



## jaywillin

i've got my marantz 2216 out of the rack, i to replace the dial pointer/indicator light, the tuning wheel is a tad sticky in one spot, 
 and while i have it out, i'd like to get the inside cleaned out a little better, i've blown it out with compressed air, and used a brush
 but it still seems to have dirt and grime wanting to hang on.
 what i have found on the subject was using denatured alcohol and q-tips, but i thought i'd ask and see if y'all had any other methods and or advice
 thanks !!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I use rubbing alcohol and q-tips.  Tedious, but the best way I have found.
  
 You can use denatured, but it does leave a residue.  Don't power-up until everything evaporates.


----------



## headphones1999

vapman said:


> Makes me feel like it's based on an old dynaco design or something.
> Those rca jacks might be too close to each other for comfort/usual cables.


 
 its okay, worst case is that i dont need more then two source inputs anyway


----------



## jaywillin

speakerbox said:


> I use rubbing alcohol and q-tips.  Tedious, but the best way I have found.
> 
> You can use denatured, but it does leave a residue.  Don't power-up until everything evaporates.


 
 a youtube video i found, said rubbing alcohol left the film, to get denatured , strange 
 but you haven't had that problem using rubbing alcohol huh , that i have, denatured i'd have to get


----------



## SpeakerBox

I believe "denatured" means that stuff is added to the alcohol.


----------



## jaywillin

ahhhh, a little more research via google and it looks you are exactly right, thanks , i had it backwards,


----------



## vapman

jaywillin said:


> a youtube video i found, said rubbing alcohol left the film, to get denatured , strange
> but you haven't had that problem using rubbing alcohol huh , that i have, denatured i'd have to get


 

 don't use low % iso as it will leave more of a film behind than 90~%
 i use 90% on electronics all the time and it evaporates completely and leaves no film every time.
 i would not use 70% or lower on electronics


----------



## jaywillin

our rubbing alcohol was 70% so a no go on that tonight, and really, it's not as dirty as i was thinking, i will pick up some 90+% tomorrow, 
 and see how much cleaner it'll get.
  
 as for what i did do, :
 the only light that wasn't working was the dial indicator light,i figured if i was going to replace it, i might as well do them all, and i'm glad i did. i used LEDs and they   waaaaaaaay better.
 when i posted some pics when i first got the 2216, there were a couple of yellow wires soldered to the post 
 on the outside of the meter housing, which i assumed was a rigged up light fix. 

 it was, i snipped the wires at the post, i didn't want to try and desolder anything, and the way it was sitting, i was able to snip the wires flush with the solder at the post, i then replaced the meter light properly

 also, when i had opened it up the first time, i noticed one of the plastic brackets on the dial light bar, was cracked in about 3 places
 so when i loosed the screw to get at the lights, it just crumbled. well a little hot glue got it to hold, any thought on whether the temps inside 
 would cause the glue to melt ? anywhere, here's a look 

 i wanted to replace the stereo indicator light, but there's not much slack in the wires, and it looked a little cramped down there
 the light is working, so i left it,

  
 the tuner calibration it off, the stations aren't at the correct position on the dial, and i'm a little disappointed in the tuner reception
 but that could be other things besides the tuner , 
  
 i was a little intimidated about popping the hood myself, i read up here, and utilized youtube, man, lots of good stuff there,it really helps being able to actually see what to do. 
 i just went slow, and was careful, and had a blast !
  
 oh, almost forgot, here it is lit up


----------



## SpeakerBox

Depending on the glue you used it could melt.  Epoxy probably would not.
  
 There should be a potentiometer somewhere that will realign the the tuning needle with the display numbering.  You will need a service manual to figure out where it is.
  
 Looks good!


----------



## jaywillin

speakerbox said:


> Depending on the glue you used it could melt.  Epoxy probably would not.
> 
> There should be a potentiometer somewhere that will realign the the tuning needle with the display numbering.  You will need a service manual to figure out where it is.
> 
> Looks good!




Thanks !
I still have it open, I'll get something more temperature resistant and reapply.
I do have the service manual, so I'll check


----------



## Byronb

Looks awesome, well done.


----------



## vapman

I think if I ever redo an old amp like that with new LEDs, i'm going to have to stick with something like red or amber... modern blue LEDs can get overwhelmingly bright (but still look bad ass) on old receivers like this!


----------



## jaywillin

they are bright, that's for sure, 
 amber might be cool


----------



## vapman

jaywillin said:


> they are bright, that's for sure,
> amber might be cool


 
  
 If you like the blue coloring though, consider putting some colored cellophane in front of the LEDS to diffuse them a bit.
  
 go old school liek the OG space invader machines 
  
 of course they did it to trick you into thinking the screen was color when it was monochrme, but putting colored cellophane over the same color led can serve to diffuse it a bit and take away a bit of the piercingness of the LEDs.
  
 another option is to have all the LEDs connected to one master power source where you can dial in the specific amount of power you want going to the LEDs to adust brightness that way?


----------



## AppleheadMay

I had all the lights in my receivers replaced but not with leds since they are much brighter and I didn't want to change the original look of the amps.
 If one dies well it's simply putting in a new lamp.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, I kept the general illumination lights on my 1980 as regular light bulbs. I did have the function indicators changed to LEDs, and that was definitely the way to go as it looks better and those are a bear to change out. 

With the Marantz, the issue is the vellum paper yellows, and if you use bulbs, the color is kind of a bad aqua-green. And changing the vellum paper is tough. I did change the Marantz when I had one to blue LEDs, and while it was kind of bright, I liked the way it looked - at least it was freaking blue!!!


----------



## SirMarc

When I had my tech go over my 9090, his supplier sent him bulbs that were 2 volts higher by mistake. I told him to put them in anyway and see what it looks like. When I went there to pick it up, I liked it, so we kept them in there. It was like you hit a dimmer switch, which is perfect for me since I do my serious listening in the dark. Its bright enough to see in daylight, but doesn't light up the room with the lights out


----------



## jaywillin

skylab said:


> Yeah, I kept the general illumination lights on my 1980 as regular light bulbs. I did have the function indicators changed to LEDs, and that was definitely the way to go as it looks better and those are a bear to change out.
> 
> With the Marantz, the issue is the vellum paper yellows, and if you use bulbs, the color is kind of a bad aqua-green. And changing the vellum paper is tough. I did change the Marantz when I had one to blue LEDs, and while it was kind of bright, I liked the way it looked - at least it was freaking blue!!!


 
 that's exactly the way mine looked before the LED, kinda aqua-marine , the LEDs are bright, but not too bright for me.
 my question is, why aren't the red dots in between the numbers red anymore ? is it due to the brightness of the LEDs?


----------



## BobG55

My latest acquisition : *Kenwood KA-8300*
  
  


 Listening session so far w/ *T1 Gen.1* & *K702 (Made in Austria) w/ new earpads (from Germany)* & *HD650*.  I especially like the "Presence control" which enables the listener to adjust the 'midrange' frequencies accordingly.  It is especially great with the HD650.  With the damping factor of 50 & the "presence control" there is no veil.  I've read from a very good source that the HD650 is not veiled.  It's most of the amps used w/ the HD650 which are veiled & this amp proves the point. The HD650 is still one of the very best HPs ever made.
  
 I'm going to have the amp Deoxitized & checked over by a technical friend of mine but this preliminary listening session is quite enjoyable.
  
  
  
_*Specs from "HifiEngine.com" :*_
Description *Having truly professional features, the KA-8300 is designed to form the nucleus of a top grade system.*

Specifications Power output:* 80 watts* per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

 Frequency response: 20Hz to 40kHz

 Total harmonic *distortion: 0.1%*

*Damping factor: 50*

 Input sensitivity: 2.5mV (MM), 150mV (line)

 Signal to noise ratio: 72dB (MM), 90dB (line)

 Output: 150mV (line), 30mV (DIN)

Speaker load impedance: 4Ω to 16Ω

 Dimensions: 430 x 149 x 376mm

 Weight: 16kg (35.2 lbs)

  
  
  
*I chose it mainly for it's high damping factor & it's mono option*


----------



## Mechans1

I  used the 60 watt version without the cool meters for well over 20 years "dual monaural DC" KA 7100. I bought it in 1976.


----------



## vapman

Both between getting a Kenwood G608 Mediakeg DAP in a trade (truly superb sounding) and this thread I'm far more interested in Kenwood than I was before.
  
 Were they making good stuff throgh the 80s or is it really just 70s and etc gear from them that's worth looking out for?


----------



## terry parr

nice looking integrated, bob.  glad you're enjoying it! 
  
 your comments about the senn HD650 "having no veil" while being paired-up with this amp was interesting. 
  
 I wonder how and to what degree most of the headphone reviews here on head-fi would change concerning these headphones (or, the AKG K701/702's) IF everyone were required to match these headphones up to a well-suited (for that particular headphone) 70's-era vintage amp, have an extended listen, and_ then_ report their impressions of the headphone! 
  
  
  
 in my opinion, it's not a proper headphone amp if it doesn't have a "loudness" button to boost low frequencies a bit for low-volume listening, and if it doesn't have tone controls.      
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 (realizing how important portable rigs are these days, yes that comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek).  but, still...


----------



## AirForceTeacher

I dug out my old CR 820 and hooked up new (old stock) Usher bookshelves to it:



What can I do to fix knob "scratchiness"?


----------



## jgreen16

Sounds like a candidate for some Deoxit.
  
 http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/


----------



## vapman

I have the same printer @AirForceTeacher but yeah deoxit will 90% fix it all up if you have no problems other than knob scatchiness.
  
 I have a Technics receiver i've been putting that off on because I'm gonna rewire the whole dang thing and put a way better attenuator in there.


----------



## AirForceTeacher

vapman said:


> I have the same printer @AirForceTeacher




Daily promo code at Frys ftw. 




> but yeah deoxit will 90% fix it all up if you have no problems other than knob scatchiness.




Thanks you guys - I'll have to give that a try!


----------



## vapman

airforceteacher said:


> Daily promo code at Frys ftw.
> Thanks you guys - I'll have to give that a try!


 

 At least 2/3 of the vintage audio gear i found that had "problems" or "scratchy sound" or "weird buzzing".... just needed the deoxit treatment.
  
 spray and turn the pot back and forth gently. let the deoxit work in and do its job.
  
 give it some time to dry up fire it back up.
  
 i've been putting off repairing my dad's old NAD integrated he loves because I fixed the scratchy volume pot with deoxit - i'm going to go all out balls out on my Technics integrated, rewire the whole dang thing!


----------



## Mechans1

What's been lost in the DeOxit  discussion is the controversy of tone controls.  I like the loudness button and even the presence dial.  People say that the music  should not be altered its presented as it should be heard.  If you want to change something your system is not up to snuff.  So you end up buying different cables and components until the music sounds the way you wanted all along.  To me it is hypocrisy and you could save money by admitting you want tone controls.  The problem is that most modern gear doesn't have any.


----------



## vapman

mechans1 said:


> What's been lost in the DeOxit  discussion is the controversy of tone controls.  I like the loudness button and even the presence dial.  People say that the music  should not be altered its presented as it should be heard.  If you want to change something your system is not up to snuff.  So you end up buying different cables and components until the music sounds the way you wanted all along.  To me it is hypocrisy and you could save money by admitting you want tone controls.  The problem is that most modern gear doesn't have any.


 

 This is why it's most importantt to find out what was done why it was and if therere's a better way to do it.
  
 more often than not you can make no hardware mods and reroute the signals and experence a quality increase.
  
 I personally love loudness and tone controls - believe when I give my SU-v76 the full "Do-Over" it will include all new pots but I will skip as much unnecessary wiring as possible.
  
 Very excited to turn it into a way better amp than it ever should be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I just love the sound of it so damn much and something magical happens in the headphone stage.


----------



## BobG55

mechans1 said:


> What's been lost in the DeOxit  discussion is the controversy of tone controls.  I like the loudness button and even the presence dial.  People say that the music  should not be altered its presented as it should be heard.  If you want to change something your system is not up to snuff.  _*So you end up buying different cables and components until the music sounds the way you wanted all along.*_  To me it is hypocrisy and you could save money by admitting you want tone controls.  The problem is that most modern gear doesn't have any.


 
 and buying different cables and components e.g. aftermarket cables = snake oil IMHO (if someone who believes in cables making a difference, please don't jump all over my remarks; it's only my opinion and eventually a moderator will jump in & erase the posts anyways.)  
  
 There's nothing wrong with an amp that has tone controls, a presence control/dial or even a loudness button.  Some audiophiles use EQs on their computers/laptops; isn't that pretty much the same as the sound options on vintage amps ?  What's important to me personally, bottom line, is to enjoy the music and the reproduction of the music as close to one's taste and desires as possible.  Point in case : I purchased the KA8300 because it has a "mono" option.  I have The BeaTles' mono CD box & when I put the amp in mono and adjust the tones, filter & presence dial accordingly, (w/ the AKG K702), I can hear & enjoy the albums the way they were meant to be heard IMHO because even though they're in mono the amp's options enable the details an tone to come out at their very best.  The damping factor of the amp also makes a big difference in the sound quality and clarity.  I believe members of this thread already know/are aware of what I've written.  Many of these vintage amps are better than most headphone amps for those reasons alone.  Again I'm not trying to start a debate, it's just my opinion and based on many posts, which, I've read over the last couple of years, on this thread, that opinion appears to be shared by most members of this thread.


----------



## AirForceTeacher

Well, in my case the scratchy knit is the volume, so tone control controversy takes a back seat. 


Incidentally, related newbie question: with three volume controls - the application, Windows, and the analog amplifier, which should be set to what? From my older days, I always was told to set the source volume, especially a gain control, as high as possible without distortion or feedback and control volumes on the amplification side. Presumably the application volume control is pure digital, Windows (when controlling onboard lineout) is digital bridging to analog, then of course the old Yami is analog only. When I get a dac to replace the sound card output, what will be different in settings?


----------



## Mechans1

I didn't want to dismiss your scratchy volume potentiometer. I thought you got the best advice, which is to start by using DeOxit, with a video link no less.
  I think you can put your source at or near full gain. I am  not sure what to do about the Windows digital gain, but the general opinion I glean from Audiogon,is   that digital volume control is inferior to analog control . Obviously, you use your analog pot to  bring the music to a volume you enjoy .  The assumption of course,  is that your listening volume does not cause audible distortion.


----------



## AirForceTeacher

Thanks a bunch. I'll be looking for deoxit when I get home.


----------



## vapman

airforceteacher said:


> Thanks a bunch. I'll be looking for deoxit when I get home.


 

 Don't over spray but give it some bursts while the amp is open and turn the knob back and forth all the way slowly at least a dozen times while slowly applying Deoxit.
  
 If you let it dry and it still crackes the pot might need replacing or you have bad caps or soemthing else wrong in your stuff.


----------



## AirForceTeacher

Is this it?

http://www.frys.com/product/3051679?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


----------



## vapman

airforceteacher said:


> Is this it?
> 
> http://www.frys.com/product/3051679?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


 

 yup thy come in lots of forms and factors, if its deoxit and sprays youre good.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Sometimes to get to tricky places, I like to use a blunt syringe and apply a couple drops instead of spraying directly. Helps prevent accidentally spraying too much too.


----------



## vapman

bucketinabucket said:


> Sometimes to get to tricky places, I like to use a blunt syringe and apply a couple drops instead of spraying directly. Helps prevent accidentally spraying too much too.


 

 I got these for thermal paste
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DXPRTHG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  
 Works great for me so far...
  
  
 IRIRC deoxit comes iwth a nozzle about that isze so dont just  go full blast an youll be ok....


----------



## SpeakerBox

bobg55 said:


> Listening session so far w/ *T1 Gen.1* & *K702 (Made in Austria) w/ new earpads (from Germany)* & *HD650*.  I especially like the "Presence control" which enables the listener to adjust the 'midrange' frequencies accordingly.  It is especially great with the HD650.  With the damping factor of 50 & the "presence control" there is no veil.  I've read from a very good source that the HD650 is not veiled.  It's most of the amps used w/ the HD650 which are veiled & this amp proves the point. The HD650 is still one of the very best HPs ever made.


 
  
 Interesting comments.  I do believe that sometimes there is a synergistic relationship between two pieces of gear.  I have a pair of HD555s modded to 595s that I was not particularly impressed with - that is until I plugged them into my just recapped Harman Kardon 330A (measly 20WPC) .  They sound awesome there!  Better than they do with my Pioneer SX-1250 to my ears anyway.  Go figure.


----------



## BobG55

speakerbox said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Listening session so far w/ *T1 Gen.1* & *K702 (Made in Austria) w/ new earpads (from Germany)* & *HD650*.  I especially like the "Presence control" which enables the listener to adjust the 'midrange' frequencies accordingly.  It is especially great with the HD650.  With the damping factor of 50 & the "presence control" there is no veil.  I've read from a very good source that the HD650 is not veiled.  It's most of the amps used w/ the HD650 which are veiled & this amp proves the point. The HD650 is still one of the very best HPs ever made.
> ...


 

 Maybe the new caps make a big difference also.  I'm thinking of having the caps replaced w/ new ones for my KA8300.


----------



## SpeakerBox

A recap does make a huge difference, but I have fully recapped both the 1250 and 330A and the latter still sounds better with the 555s.


----------



## vapman

Sansui 8080 or Yamaha R-2000 on Craigslist 34 minutes from me. $350
  
 Should i do it?
  


speakerbox said:


> A recap does make a huge difference, but I have fully recapped both the 1250 and 330A and the latter still sounds better with the 555s.


 
  
  
 do you mean the recap is only noticable on the 555's?


----------



## vapman

Is this the wrong place to discuss newer EL34 based models?


----------



## headphones1999

guys how do I clean the parts that got green? not talking about the knobs (those will be replaced after recaping)


----------



## SpeakerBox

vapman said:


> do you mean the recap is only noticable on the 555's?


 
  
 Not at all - both the 330A and SX1250 sounded immensely better everywhere after recap and the 1250 is the better of the two overall.
  
 It just happens that there is a certain synergy between the 555s and the Harman Kardon 330A that I find very enjoyable.


----------



## Benny-x

airforceteacher said:


> What can I do to fix knob "scratchiness"?


 
 It this on the receiver's side or the knob side?
  
 Either way, a good start is to give it a good wash with soap and water first, keep it all opened and air dry. Then Vaseline.


----------



## PhoenixG

benny-x said:


> It this on the receiver's side or the knob side?
> 
> Either way, a good start is to give it a good wash with soap and water first, keep it all opened and air dry. Then Vaseline.


 
Please don't use any of those products on vintage electronics. Vaseline is conductive and can short or 'make weird' your analog volume pot. It's fine for car battery terminals and that's about it. While some digital volume pots are grease filled to give a more substantial feel, analog ones should never be. Soap and water also shouldn't touch electronics, especially vintage ones with unknown or non-sealed (sometimes literally paper) parts. Soap and water should only be used on cosmetic parts (milled knobs, face plates, etc.).
  
 Read through the thread for a link to the deoxit 'how to' page to see how to clean contact points in receivers. That'll take the static noise out of knobs most of the time. To clean dust out of old units, start with compressed air, then move up to pure alcohol (after testing a small spot or two to make sure it won't strip your paint). I like to use q-tips and sponges on sticks for that.


----------



## PhoenixG

jaywillin said:


> that's exactly the way mine looked before the LED, kinda aqua-marine , the LEDs are bright, but not too bright for me.
> my question is, why aren't the red dots in between the numbers red anymore ? is it due to the brightness of the LEDs?


 
 I'd guess you are using monochromatic LED's that are really pure blue. Since the dots rely on reflecting and filtering some red light, they're just not getting what they need. Maybe if you replaced one or two of the blue LED's with white or red ones, your red dots would return.


----------



## Benny-x

phoenixg said:


> Please don't use any of those products on vintage electronics. Vaseline is conductive and can short or 'make weird' your analog volume pot. It's fine for car battery terminals and that's about it. While some digital volume pots are grease filled to give a more substantial feel, analog ones should never be. Soap and water also shouldn't touch electronics, especially vintage ones with unknown or non-sealed (sometimes literally paper) parts. Soap and water should only be used on cosmetic parts (milled knobs, face plates, etc.).
> 
> Read through the thread for a link to the deoxit 'how to' page to see how to clean contact points in receivers. That'll take the static noise out of knobs most of the time. To clean dust out of old units, start with compressed air, then move up to pure alcohol (after testing a small spot or two to make sure it won't strip your paint). I like to use q-tips and sponges on sticks for that.




But he said he had a scratchy knob? We're all old timers in here sharing stories and pictures, the guy opened up about a scratchy knob, I felt obligated to share my experience.


----------



## vapman

Soap/water is a different thing but it also highly depends on what you're doing. So have common sense and you should know if soap+water is needed for the job or not.
  
 Some computer motherboards or integrated amps could go through the dishwasher and come out working perfect.
  
 Many many other things will not!


----------



## Benny-x

vapman said:


> Soap/water is a different thing but it also highly depends on what you're doing. So have common sense and you should know if soap+water is needed for the job or not.
> 
> Some computer motherboards or integrated amps could go through the dishwasher and come out working perfect.
> 
> Many many other things will not!



Lots of people recommend alcohol and other pills, but soap and water go a long ways in taking care of a scratchy knob. You can only handle the irritation of it for so long before the Vaseline will make complete sense. 

He's talking about scratchy gear here, I really don't see the need to double back on what I said so many times. It's practically common sense.


----------



## Skylab

Are you seriously suggesting putting Vaseline INSIDE the mechanism of the volume pot?


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> Are you seriously suggesting putting Vaseline INSIDE the mechanism of the volume pot?



Yikes!


----------



## Mechans1

Benny I am not interested I dis-respecting you I am sure you are very sincere. I hope you find this polite but in disagreement.
 There are other products made for this exact purpose and be less likely to cause problems in my view than soap and water.  Petroleum jelly again seems like a poor choice of lubricant when the current armamentarium cleaning products generally provide a residual lubricant.
 I can tell you that few years ago highly conductive contact improvement salves and other 'safe' goo, what heavily pushed to the audiophile market.  The conductive elements were purportedly gold and silver making these ointments very expensive.  Many reported a host of problems after a first run of typical audiophilian (my word for the poetic language employed by audiophile).  Then these product's  problems became serious threats to very expensive components.Getting that stuff out of the various sockets and plugs became a monumental salvaging  project.
 DeOxit and perhaps a few others I don't know of, has/have been used for a very long time with a record of utility and safety.  Np doubt that petroleum jelly has be around much, much longer.  I however, having been an audiophile (an embarrassment to admit) for over 40 years, have never heard of using it. 
 Finally, cleaning anything with soap and water appears, at least superficially, as a tried and true measure. I however have never introduced water knowingly to my gear, it seems counterintuitive.


----------



## Benny-x

Hahaha, now unless this has been a carefully orchestrated reverse trolling against me, how about we all triple back before this gets out of hand and reflect that I turned this into a knob thread without anyone noticing... and I'm not talking pots


----------



## jaywillin

phoenixg said:


> I'd guess you are using monochromatic LED's that are really pure blue. Since the dots rely on reflecting and filtering some red light, they're just not getting what they need. Maybe if you replaced one or two of the blue LED's with white or red ones, your red dots would return.


 
 i figured it was something along those lines, 
 i've found some warm white lamps, i'll try to find some red too, and do some experimenting 
 thanks !


----------



## jaywillin

benny-x said:


> Hahaha, now unless this has been a carefully orchestrated reverse trolling against me, how about we all triple back before this gets out of hand and reflect that I turned this into a knob thread without anyone noticing... and I'm not talking pots


 
 i had a suspicion 
 well played sir


----------



## 5aces

I have waited patiently for a *Sansui AU 7700* to appear in the right location and condition.
This weekend I picked up a Kijiji score, 30.9 pounds of audio goodness.
One owner, mint integrated amplifier from 1974, box and manual.
54 watts into 8 ohms, 2 aux inputs, two phono input - one with selectable pickup load.
All the classic features you could want, I will use it with an AURALiC Aries Mini music streamer. 
Elated to find this amp!


----------



## AppleheadMay

5aces said:


> I have waited patiently for a *Sansui AU 7700* to appear in the right location and condition.
> This weekend I picked up a Kijiji score, 30.9 pounds of audio goodness.
> One owner, mint integrated amplifier from 1974, box and manual.
> 54 watts into 8 ohms, 2 aux inputs, two phono input - one with selectable pickup load.
> ...


 
  
 A beauty, congrats!


----------



## ssrock64

5aces said:


> I have waited patiently for a *Sansui AU 7700* to appear in the right location and condition.
> This weekend I picked up a Kijiji score, 30.9 pounds of audio goodness.
> One owner, mint integrated amplifier from 1974, box and manual.
> 54 watts into 8 ohms, 2 aux inputs, two phono input - one with selectable pickup load.
> ...


 
 I love the box! It's not often that an owner or series of owners cares enough about their gear to keep it with original packaging as it falls out of (and then back into) fashion.


----------



## 5aces

Very rare to get original packaging, with the actual retail store written on the side with the taped serial number intact.
The owner was born in 1953, purchasing the amplifier new when he was 21 years old in 1974 for the then princely sum of $500 Canadian.
 It has been in his bedroom closet for 20 years, so I will send it to my vintage tech for a tune up.
His son powered it up and it makes real music, no problems!


----------



## SirMarc

5aces said:


> I have waited patiently for a *Sansui AU 7700* to appear in the right location and condition.
> This weekend I picked up a Kijiji score, 30.9 pounds of audio goodness.
> One owner, mint integrated amplifier from 1974, box and manual.
> 54 watts into 8 ohms, 2 aux inputs, two phono input - one with selectable pickup load.
> ...



Nice!


----------



## richard51

5aces said:


> ave waited patiently for a *Sansui AU 7700* to appear in the right location and condition.
> This weekend I picked up a Kijiji score, 30.9 pounds of audio goodness.
> One owner, mint integrated amplifier from 1974, box and manual.
> 54 watts into 8 ohms, 2 aux inputs, two phono input - one with selectable pickup load.
> ...


 
 Congratulations!
  
 I have the exact same Sansui, all i can say is that is a marvellous, flexible, sounding amplifier/preamplifier....The better purchase for me in audio...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
  
 p.s. i will wait for your listening impressions...


----------



## Mechans1

I own an older variant of that amp the AU 717 and always thought it had more power than that. It may not, but it certainly drove anything I used with it, very easily.   My amp had no obvious cosmetic problems,  but yours is in exceptional condition and sparkles as new.  The older amp had fewer load options as well, if I recall correctly (it's in storage) .
 I really wanted to ask is,  what is a Kijiji score.  I assume something good.  My vernacular equivalent might be a mitzeah.


----------



## ssrock64

5aces said:


> Very rare to get original packaging, with the actual retail store written on the side with the taped serial number intact.
> The owner was born in 1953, purchasing the amplifier new when he was 21 years old in 1974 for the then princely sum of $500 Canadian.
> It has been in his bedroom closet for 20 years, so I will send it to my vintage tech for a tune up.
> His son powered it up and it makes real music, no problems!


 

 It looks like the location of the original shop is now the gap between a Panera Bread and a 7 Eleven amid of a bunch of glassy high-rises. It's amazing how much the city can have changed in that time, and the gear is still relevant.


----------



## 5aces

mechans1 said:


> I really wanted to ask is,  what is a Kijiji score.




Kijiji is another online buy and sell website. 
Craigslist is more popular in the USA, Kijiji is more frequently used by us Canadians. 

My reason for coveting the AU 7700, would be my original purchase new in 1976 of the smaller sibling amplifier - the AU 5500.
Also, I am partial to the aluminum thumb switches, before Sansui went to the black round switches in the next version-AU 7900. 

I use a Stax energizer from the speaker terminals for the electrostats and a Senn 800 from the headphone connection.
This is a solid little amp that delivers justice to your music of choice.


----------



## AppleheadMay

5aces said:


> Kijiji is another online buy and sell website.
> Craigslist is more popular in the USA, Kijiji is more frequently used by us Canadians.
> 
> My reason for coveting the AU 7700, would be my original purchase new in 1976 of the smaller sibling amplifier - the AU 5500.
> ...


 
  
 Any popular sites like that for Europe?


----------



## BobG55

Hi, I need someone's experience/ help. There's a vintage Concept 7.5d which I can purchase but I'm not sure about something : I listen to my music via CD player (some of us are still around) & I noticed that the 7.5d has Phono, Tape 1 & Tape 2 inputs but no Aux. input.  The two vintage amps I own both have Aux. inputs which is what I connect my CD player to.  I know the Phono input is out of the question but would the Tape 1 or/ & maybe Tape 2 input work ?  
  
 I've researched the Internet before deciding to ask on this thread and the best I could find was a couple of threads on AudioKarma and the information/ discussions/ posts from members didn't exactly give me a clear answer.  One member in particular mentioned that although the CD player would work w/ the Tape 1 inputs, the sound would be different & that it would bypass the bass, treble & tonality adjustments of the receiver.  Another member wrote that Tape 1 would work the very same as an Aux. input.  So I thought I'd better make sure before I bought this receiver which has no Aux. input would still be compatible w/ my CD player.
  
 Thank you to anyone who can help me out.


----------



## vapman

bobg55 said:


> Thank you to anyone who can help me out.


 
 Tape inputs will work perfectly fine - same signal level for output from tape decks as is from CD players. So, you're all good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Can even use it for fancy things like DAPs with line out and DACs and what have you!


----------



## BobG55

vapman said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you to anyone who can help me out.
> ...


 

 Thanks vampman.  That's great news.  I'm very grateful.


----------



## Skylab

Yup,Vapman is absolutely right. Tape inputs work PERFECTLY for any line-level input like a CD player or DAC. Many of the vintage units we love would really be problematic to use if it were not for the tape inputs, just because they wouldn't have enough line level inputs. Even my big SX-1980 has only one aux input. But it has two tape inputs, so it has three line inputs, which is enough for my rig.


----------



## AppleheadMay

What amazes me that a system so ahead of it's time already offered 12 channels and only three inputs.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Tape outs will allow a pass through of line level to other amps/systems thus all sources hooked up to the first system will be available on another.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## BobG55

Quote:


skylab said:


> Yup,Vapman is absolutely right. Tape inputs work PERFECTLY for any line-level input like a CD player or DAC. Many of the vintage units we love would really be problematic to use if it were not for the tape inputs, just because they wouldn't have enough line level inputs. Even my big SX-1980 has only one aux input. But it has two tape inputs, so it has three line inputs, which is enough for my rig.


 

 Thanks Skylab.  Much appreciated.


----------



## BobG55

Quote:



r2muchstuff said:


> Tape outs will allow a pass through of line level to other amps/systems thus all sources hooked up to the first system will be available on another.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 

 Thanks r2muchstuff.


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Tape outs will allow a pass through of line level to other amps/systems thus all sources hooked up to the first system will be available on another.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2



Yup, that's what I've been doing for years. I love the phono stage in my Dynaco sca-50, so I hook my turntable up to it and go tape out to the Sansui. It also gives me three more inputs if I need them. 

I've tested the Dynaco phono stage against my Sansui 9090, Kenwood kr-7600, Denon dra-835r and Pioneer sx-550 and it trounces them all. If any of you vinyl guys come across this little Dynaco for cheap, give it a shot, if only for the phono stage


----------



## KeithEmo

Yes, the tape inputs on modern equipment are the same as "aux", or any other line level input.
  
 But, FYI, you do have to watch out with VERY old equipment.
  
 Back in the early days of mono tube equipment, there were preamps that had "tape inputs" that were intended to be connected directly to the playback head on a tape player. (The tape playback preamp was in the preamp itself. Very early tape decks had separate amplifier electronic and transports.) Those inputs were more like phono inputs, with a very high gain, and lots of equalization (different but somewhat like phono EQ). That's what the article that mentioned "tape inputs sounding tinny" was referring to.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Very good point.
  
 My Pioneer SC100, a solid state from 1968, has two tape settings - 7 1/2 and 3/4 (ips) with a different eq for each.  They are switched with the source selector knob.  The SA 900, and others, have a Tape Head setting on the source selector,  they do not work as aux. inputs 
  
 The tape inputs/outputs which can be used as aux. are generally labeled as "Tape Monitor" and are not switched with the source selector.
  
 Thus even solid state preamps and amps may have the "tape head" type of inputs, so be sure what you have with older stuffs.
  
 r2


----------



## vapman

When I get around to fixing up some of my older receivers, i plan on re-doing the wiring on them, as having the signal go through a giant maze of different potentiometers and what have you is never ideal. It was cool at the time having EQ's on every channel and stuff like that, but now it just means more points of failure... I'll probably leave a lot of balance & eq controls unwired. more direct connections.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

r2muchstuff said:


> Tape outs will allow a pass through of line level to other amps/systems thus all sources hooked up to the first system will be available on another.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 
 I've done the same REC 1 for CRACK REC 2 for the SEX(Wait SEX?it sounds dirty
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)....


----------



## AppleheadMay

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I've done the same REC 1 for CRACK REC 2 for the SEX(Wait SEX?it sounds dirty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That word and that other word, God forbid me to repeat them, may not be used on public forums where children under 18 are reading as well.
 I reported your post to a moderator and pray you'll be banned for life and burn in hell for your sins!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

appleheadmay said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I've done the same REC 1 for CRACK REC 2 for the SEX(Wait SEX?it sounds dirty
> ...


 
 Bottlehead CRACK

 Bottlehead S.E.X.

  
 NO NEED TO CRY.


----------



## AppleheadMay

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Bottlehead CRACK
> 
> Bottlehead S.E.X.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Especially the second phrase sounds so wrong ... (pun intended) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Looks classy I must say!


----------



## Benny-x

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Bottlehead CRACK
> Bottlehead S.E.X.
> 
> NO NEED TO CRY.


 
 For lolz? Jokes?
  
 Looks like this thread is still isn't past the level of talking about putting vaseline around the inside or base of your knob to protect from scratchiness... And things of that sort ;-P
  
 I got a laugh, Applehead 
  
 Good to hear more intricate details from KeithEmo, though. I always have a good time reading his posts, they're top notch.
  
 Speaking of Emotiva, I'm REALLY thinking about painting my Stealth 8 active monitors lately.


----------



## AppleheadMay

i luvmusic 2 said:


> Bottlehead CRACK
> 
> Bottlehead S.E.X.
> 
> ...


 
  


appleheadmay said:


> Especially the second phrase sounds so wrong ... (pun intended)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


benny-x said:


> I got a laugh, Applehead


 
  
 I meant the images of the amps looked classy, not any kind of mental image ... just so there are no misunderstandings.


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone here have LCD 2s that theyre using with their vintage receiver,and if so what are your thoughts?

 My Sansui 881 has done amazing things with my AD2000s,and I love the way my HE-500s sound thru it as well,but it totally ruined the sound of my dearly departed T1s.

 Im about to swap my WA2 for a pair LCD-2s and wondering if its the right move....

 Input appreciated.


----------



## chillaxing

monsterzero said:


> Anyone here have LCD 2s that theyre using with their vintage receiver,and if so what are your thoughts?
> 
> My Sansui 881 has done amazing things with my AD2000s,and I love the way my HE-500s sound thru it as well,but it totally ruined the sound of my dearly departed T1s.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've ran my 2.2 non-f thru the headphone jack of my ka-9100 and don't like it at all.  Might be better through the speaker taps but the amp is in storage so won't be able to try it out anytime soon.


----------



## Amish

I run my LCD-2F through a Pioneer SA-8100 on occasion. Sounds great! Makes the LCD a bit brighter actually.


----------



## AppleheadMay

chillaxing said:


> I've ran my 2.2 non-f thru the headphone jack of my ka-9100 and don't like it at all.  Might be better through the speaker taps but the amp is in storage so won't be able to try it out anytime soon.


 
  
  


amish said:


> I run my LCD-2F through a Pioneer SA-8100 on occasion. Sounds great! Makes the LCD a bit brighter actually.


 
  
 @Amish Through the speaker taps as well? The LCD2 isn't that hard to drive if I remember well.


----------



## Skylab

I used the LCD-2 via the Pioneer SX-1980's headphone jack quite a bit, and was always very, very impressed. 

Of course, the SX-1980 outputs about 28 watts per channel into 50 ohms from the headphone out


----------



## Amish

appleheadmay said:


> @Amish Through the speaker taps as well? The LCD2 isn't that hard to drive if I remember well.


 
 Not at all. I just use the front headphone jack.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> I used the LCD-2 via the Pioneer SX-1980's headphone jack quite a bit, and was always very, very impressed.
> 
> Of course, the SX-1980 outputs about 28 watts per channel into 50 ohms from the headphone out


 
  
 Where do you find the HP output power Rob? Or did you measure it?


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Where do you find the HP output power Rob? Or did you measure it?




Have to compute it. The SX-1980 has a 150 ohm dropping resistor on the headphone out, otherwise it's just the same power amp that delivers 270 wpc into 8 ohms. The combined load of the LCD-2 plus the resistor is 200 ohms.


----------



## Sweden

Is there a way of lower the output impedance on a vintage receiver in a safe way?
 Usually the whole circuit of the amp goes into the headphone out but with a resistor to lower the output a bit.
 Is it safe to just remove the resistors completely or just solder in a lower valued resistor?
  
 High output impedance doesn't seem to change the sound on planars but ordinary dynamics have a tendency to get loose in the bass.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Have to compute it. The SX-1980 has a 150 ohm dropping resistor on the headphone out, otherwise it's just the same power amp that delivers 270 wpc into 8 ohms. The combined load of the LCD-2 plus the resistor is 200 ohms.


 
  
  
 Hmm, problem is I'd like to find it for the AX-7600 and there is no manual with specs to be found for this one anymore, just catalogues.
 The brand isn't as famous as Pioneer.
  
 It's damn good ad as headamp though. I find it to be a little below my Zana and a little above my Black Widow in - let's say - SQ enjoyment.
 Nothing technically measured here, just deciding by ear how good it sounds. Darn good! 
And powerful! I have to be careful with the volume knob with any pair of phones I put into it.
I guess they used much less dropping resistors in it since it's only 45-65 Watt. Or none at all.
My SX-1250 doesn't sound more powerful on the phones out. 
Totally different matter on the speakers out though, I finally hooked the totally revised Kappa 7s up to it today.
Man! The sheer power. Sure beats the 9090 for driving hard to drive speakers.
Very happy camper here. 
Still, lookswise nr 1 is the 9090 for me nr 2 the 1980, nr 3 the 1250 and nr 4 the 3700.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Finding the HP out impedance of vintage amps usually requires finding a circuit schematic and locating the part on the drawing or physically looking and identifying the part.  Spec sheets generally do not list this.  Most 70's Pioneer are 150 ohms, later models go even higher.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> Finding the HP out impedance of vintage amps usually requires finding a circuit schematic and locating the part on the drawing or physically looking and identifying the part.  Spec sheets generally do not list this.  Most 70's Pioneer are 150 ohms, later models go even higher.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 
  
 No user manual or repair manual on the web. I checked ages ago.
 But seen how powerful that HP output is they must put in very low resistors from the speaker taps. Or none at all.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I apologized if i offended anyone for my bad joke.


----------



## AppleheadMay

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I apologized if i offended anyone for my bad joke.


 
  
 Thank you for your confession my child.
 Say 69 Hail Marys and 69 Our Fathers and The Allmighty will fogive you.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Skylab or anybody else who know.
  
 On my SX-1250 I have 2 phono inputs and 1 AUX.
  
 My DP-47F is with 1.6mV high output MC is concected tho a phono input.
 My Dac is connected to Aux, fixed output.
  
 All plays fine but I notice I have to crank the volume way up when I use the turntable vs. the DAC.
 Guess that's how it's supposed to work?
  
 Should I test the turntable on the AUX input without ground?
 Any tips?
 More info needed?


----------



## SpeakerBox

1.6mv is pretty low for the phono input.  Most MC cartridges need a head amp.   I think my Ortofon MM cartridge puts out three or four times what your MC does.  Phono won't work on AUX.  Lots of treble and no bass.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> 1.6mv is pretty low for the phono input.  Most MC cartridges need a head amp.   I think my Ortofon MM cartridge puts out three or four times what your MC does.  Phono won't work on AUX.  Lots of treble and no bass.


 
  
 I want to believe you but Skylab told me otherwise in this thread. 1.6mV should be fine even on AUX and is considered high output MC. (most have 0.3mV)
 Skylabs MC has double of my output though, about the same output on the Clearaudio MM that's delivered with the Marantz TT-15 S1.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well, it may be working as advertised.  Probably just needs a little more throttle.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> Well, it may be working as advertised.  Probably just needs a little more throttle.


 
  
 Looks like that. Either that or the DL-160 needle is worn. Ordered me a brand new DL-110 today that will arrive tomorrow.
 Not only to test, if it works and I decide to sell the DP-47F I'm keeping the DL-110 as an MC anyway for a future Marantz TT-15.
  
 I'll test that as well as the Denon turntable on my Modern Marantz amp which has an MC/MM switch tomorrow.
  
 Some fast shot pics coming.


----------



## AppleheadMay

The speaker/amp/source test setup.
 Very rudimentary stacked and quick pics, had other thing on my mind like testing and listening.
 When I do the headphone amp comparison setup with the vintages I'll post some pics as well.
 The Dac in these pictures is the Marantz HD-DAC1. not my main DAC, just something that usually hangs on my computer since I never use the phones out of my iMac. But well enough for testing vs. the turntable. Pretty nice all in one DAC/amp for someone on a budget though.
  
 Here they come, mind you, close one eye to compensate for the pic quality.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice!  I know some disagree, but I love the look of my 1250.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> @Skylab or anybody else who know.
> 
> On my SX-1250 I have 2 phono inputs and 1 AUX.
> 
> ...



OK, 1.6 is a little low for a mm phono stage, so you'll have to crank it a bit more, but it should be fine, you have tons of headroom with these receivers. And no, you can't run a turntable into an aux input, not only does a phono stage amplify the signal, but it also puts the riaa eq curve on it to make it sound right. 

Curious as to the results of the shoot out. Use your hd650's with the 9090 with vinyl and tell me what you think. I'm thinking the 1250 has a better phono stage though, the phono stage on the 9090 in my opinion isn't great, which is why I use a Dynaco phono stage. Let us know how it goes...


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> The speaker/amp/source test setup.
> Very rudimentary stacked and quick pics, had other thing on my mind like testing and listening.
> When I do the headphone amp comparison setup with the vintages I'll post some pics as well.
> The Dac in these pictures is the Marantz HD-DAC1. not my main DAC, just something that usually hangs on my computer since I never use the phones out of my iMac. But well enough for testing vs. the turntable. Pretty nice all in one DAC/amp for someone on a budget though.
> ...



Looking good man!


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> OK, 1.6 is a little low for a mm phono stage, so you'll have to crank it a bit more, but it should be fine, you have tons of headroom with these receivers. And no, you can't run a turntable into an aux input, not only does a phono stage amplify the signal, but it also puts the riaa eq curve on it to make it sound right.
> 
> Curious as to the results of the shoot out. Use your hd650's with the 9090 with vinyl and tell me what you think. I'm thinking the 1250 has a better phono stage though, the phono stage on the 9090 in my opinion isn't great, which is why I use a Dynaco phono stage. Let us know how it goes...


 
  
 I'm only doing the speaker amp part shootout atm with 2 pairs of speakers, 2 totally different sources and my modern amp into the mix.
  
 After that it's a headphone shootout with 1 headphone, same two sources, same three vintage amps and no modern amp + Zana and BW.
  
 Could take me a while, I always take it slow but my wife never seems to have minded.


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Looking good man!


 
  
 Thanks! This is only a temporarily placement for the shootout though. Got to put it somehwere in my messy home office.


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> OK, 1.6 is a little low for a mm phono stage, so you'll have to crank it a bit more, but it should be fine, you have tons of headroom with these receivers. And no, you can't run a turntable into an aux input, not only does a phono stage amplify the signal, but it also puts the riaa eq curve on it to make it sound right.
> 
> Curious as to the results of the shoot out. Use your hd650's with the 9090 with vinyl and tell me what you think. I'm thinking the 1250 has a better phono stage though, the phono stage on the 9090 in my opinion isn't great, which is why I use a Dynaco phono stage. Let us know how it goes...


 
  
 Cranking it up solves the proble of course but I wonder what the same voltage new needle (DL-110) will do tomorrow.
 It's already on it's way, getting "Deliveries" app updates from time to time. Oh the joy of buying toys!


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> I'm only doing the speaker amp part shootout atm with 2 pairs of speakers, 2 totally different sources and my modern amp into the mix.
> 
> After that it's a headphone shootout with 1 headphone, same two sources, same three vintage amps and no modern amp + Zana and BW.
> 
> Could take me a while, I always take it slow but my wife never seems to have minded.



Have fun buddy, you've got some killer vintage pieces there!


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Cranking it up solves the proble of course but I wonder what the same voltage new needle (DL-110) will do tomorrow.
> It's already on it's way, getting "Deliveries" app updates from time to time. Oh the joy of buying toys!



Give the new cart a little time to run in before making any definitive judgments. Carts are the one thing that everyone agrees get better with some hours on them


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Have fun buddy, you've got some killer vintage pieces there!


 
  
  
  
  
 I can even enjoy looking at it with no sound at all! 
 I can admire a thing of beauty. The wife doesn't allways appreciate it if I do tho'


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Give the new cart a little time to run in before making any definitive judgments. Carts are the one thing that everyone agrees get better with some hours on them



 



Will do, thanks for the tip!


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> I can even enjoy looking at it with no sound at all!
> I can admire a thing of beauty. The wife doesn't allways appreciate it if I do tho'



No doubt man lol. Even if I'm not gonna listen, I still turn on the Sansui when I'm in the man cave...


----------



## SirMarc

My modest rig


----------



## SirMarc

Maybe I should have vacuumed first lol


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> No doubt man lol. Even if I'm not gonna listen, I still turn on the Sansui when I'm in the man cave...


 
  
 An amp needs to have warm! 
  


sirmarc said:


> My modest rig


 
  
 Modest? You're a bit shy aren't you? 
  


sirmarc said:


> Maybe I should have vacuumed first lol


 
  
 Yeah, you should have. I'm even sneezing over here! ;P
 I made my wife vacuum before I made the setup. I have a mancave therefore I am a caveman. Women need to obey!
 No seriously, I am a feminist. I think women are allowed to have a job as well. On top of housekeeping that is.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Sorry but I'm from the good ole' years.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> An amp needs to have warm!
> 
> 
> Modest? You're a bit shy aren't you?
> ...



Lol. My wife never comes in here, which is probably why it needs to be vacuumed...


----------



## SirMarc

Compared to some of the guys on here, its pretty modest lol


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Compared to some of the guys on here, its pretty modest lol


 
  
 You mean R2muchstuff? He's got a nice little selection, juest enough to open a nice little supertore. 
  
  
 You do know what you have to do whem your wife comes out of the kitchen, yes?


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> You mean R2muchstuff? He's got a nice little selection, juest enough to open a nice little supertore.
> 
> 
> You do know what you have to do whem your wife comes out of the kitchen, yes?



Go eat? Lol

R2, Skylab, and sorry guys drawing a blank, the two guys with a G-33,000 and 22,000 and you lol


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Go eat? Lol


 
  
  
 No. Shorten the chain.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> No. Shorten the chain.



Ouch! Lol. Not going there man


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Ouch! Lol. Not going there man


 
  
  
 Why? If she can get out of the kitchen it simply means the chain is too long, no?
 Pure logic as the Vulcans would say. I'm a rational man, maybe a tad oldfashioned but very rational.
  
 No, seriously, I don't smoke, don't drik and don't check out the ladies.
 In fact I have only one negative trait. I'm a damn good liar.


----------



## SirMarc

Waiting for the PC police to swoop in lol


----------



## Skylab

AppleheadMay and SirMarc your systems are looking good!!!

AppleheadMay, as others have said, 1.6mV is enough gain for a MM phono section but it's less that a typical MM by almost half. So yes, you will need to turn up the volume much more than you will for your DAC. This is normal.


----------



## SirMarc

skylab said:


> AppleheadMay and SirMarc your systems are looking good!!!
> 
> AppleheadMay, as others have said, 1.6mV is enough gain for a MM phono section but it's less that a typical MM by almost half. So yes, you will need to turn up the volume much more than you will for your DAC. This is normal.



Thanks bud!


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Waiting for the PC police to swoop in lol


 
  
 You were the one that started it, it'm gonna tell them all about you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


skylab said:


> @AppleheadMay and @SirMarc your systems are looking good!!!
> 
> AppleheadMay, as others have said, 1.6mV is enough gain for a MM phono section but it's less that a typical MM by almost half. So yes, you will need to turn up the volume much more than you will for your DAC. This is normal.


 
  
 Yep, I remember from last time you told me Rob, just needed some confirmation.
 I rememeber your MC is about 3.4 and the MM on the TT-15 I want is 3.6.
 Am I right that typical DAC or CD output us V and not mV? Or is that totally differently measured and not comparable? Seems like a big gap to me.
 I was playing a record and started the same song at more or less the same time on the Mac.
 I switched between Phono and Aux and I can tell you I nearly dirtied my pants. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 The SX-1250 can seriously make them Infinity woofers pump without braking a sweat!
  
 Glad all my three vintage amps have a phone input so I don't need to use AUX. Not MC or MM, just plain old simple Phono.
 My modern Marantz has an MC/MM option. Gonna try that out as well though I'm afraid 1.6mV might be too much for an MC input?
 Typically 0.3 mV, no? Am I not going to blow the MC input or isn't it going to be insanely loud on MC?
  
 I'm also gonna test my two DL-160 cartridges vs my new DL-110 that is coming in today to see if the vintage ones are still any good.
 As never having really owned a serious turntable myself it's all a bit new to me.
 For now I notice a little more dark and slightly less bright sound form the turntable than the DAC.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> You were the one that started it, it'm gonna tell them all about you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My Ortofon 2M Red has 5.5mv output so that is why 1.6mv seemed so low to me.


----------



## Skylab

I have a MM, the Clearaudio Maestro, that is around 3 mV. It's not an MC. I have never seen any MC, even the high output ones, with that much output. On my VPI I have a LOMC, a Benz LP-S MR, that is 0.3 mV. 

And yes, a CD player's output is around 2 V. That's one reason (but not the only one) that one cannot connect a TT directly into a line level input like AUX - a phono cartridge doesn't have anywhere near enough output on it's own, and it also requires the RIAA equalization that every phono preamp has built into it, in addition to the extra gain.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> My Ortofon 2M Red has 5.5mv output so that is why 1.6mv seemed so low to me.




5.5mV???

Maaan, they sold you a cartridge for the very old people that are already halfway deaf! ;P


----------



## vapman

appleheadmay said:


> 5.5mV???
> 
> Maaan, they sold you a cartridge for the very old people that are already halfway deaf! ;P


 

 I have a Shure M44-7 with an upgraded stylus.
  
 9.5mV - not deaf yet, but a basshead


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> 5.5mV???
> 
> Maaan, they sold you a cartridge for the very old people that are already halfway deaf! ;P


 
  
 The pretty much describes me.  I just turned 60!


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> The pretty much describes me.  I just turned 60!


 
  
 Congrats! Still able to blow out all the candles?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm not a youngster too anymore, 11 years younger than you but have had decent health problems in the last 4 years so I feel 60. You might feel 49 though.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> I have a MM, the Clearaudio Maestro, that is around 3 mV. It's not an MC. I have never seen any MC, even the high output ones, with that much output. On my VPI I have a LOMC, a Benz LP-S MR, that is 0.3 mV.
> 
> And yes, a CD player's output is around 2 V. That's one reason (but not the only one) that one cannot connect a TT directly into a line level input like AUX - a phono cartridge doesn't have anywhere near enough output on it's own, and it also requires the RIAA equalization that every phono preamp has built into it, in addition to the extra gain.


 
  
  
 I ust have Alzheimer.
 That's the second time I think yours was MC and you have to remind me it's MM.
  
 Forgive me if I have a moment of Alzheimer again but wasn't it you that told me a 1.6mV would do fine on the AUX of a vintage receiver?
 Pretty sure somebody did here. Man I get confused at times. Long term memory fine but short term plays me parts the last 2 months.


----------



## AppleheadMay

vapman said:


> I have a Shure M44-7 with an upgraded stylus.
> 
> 9.5mV - not deaf yet, but a basshead


 
  
 Main word being "yet".


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> Congrats! Still able to blow out all the candles?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Still successful with the candles, yes.  Took up running when I was 40 which has helped to keep me alive at least for now.  Don't want to kick the bucket until I have sampled all the audio equipment my heart desires!


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> Still successful with the candles, yes.  Took up running when I was 40 which has helped to keep me alive at least for now.  Don't want to kick the bucket until I have sampled all the audio equipment my heart desires!


 
  
 My crystal ball tells me you're heart will soon desire an Aiwa AX-7600. 
 I know just the place where you can get a dual voltage one if you want to fulfill your hearts desires before you realise you have them.


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> I ust have Alzheimer.
> That's the second time I think yours was MC and you have to remind me it's MM.
> 
> Forgive me if I have a moment of Alzheimer again but wasn't it you that told me a 1.6mV would do fine on the AUX of a vintage receiver?
> Pretty sure somebody did here. Man I get confused at times. Long term memory fine but short term plays me parts the last 2 months.




No, definitely not me. I would never have told you that. So it's the Alzheimer's 

You cannot ever connect a TT directly to any AUX input, as per my post above. There has to be a phono preamp, either in the amp/receiver, or an outboard one. If one is using an external phono preamp, then yes, that can and must be connected to a line level input like AUX.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> No, definitely not me. I would never have told you that. So it's the Alzheimer's


 
  
 Thanks for the compassion, no ladies here to comfort me? Looking for tall, slender, long dark hair, no bigger than C.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Hmm, did the thread search thingy.
 It was about someone asking a if he could connect a CD player to the AUX input. Of course he can, where else? And if it doesn't have an AUX then tape is just as fine, they're usually all the same lne level inputs.
  
 Alzheimer it is. Calling my doc tomorrow and get myself decalred mentally unable to work.
 Early retirement in the Bahama's here we come!
 Prepare the Mai Tais and get those Cohibas out of the humidor!


----------



## BucketInABucket

Meanwhile I'm 18 years old and feeling very out of place :1


----------



## abby normal

bucketinabucket said:


> Meanwhile I'm 18 years old and feeling very out of place :1


 
 can you say why you feel out of place?


----------



## vapman

appleheadmay said:


> Main word being "yet".




I'm planning on being deaf by the time I turn 60, I probably will be sick of music by then. 

Hey any of you guys retrofitted a goldpoint into a vintage amp?


----------



## BucketInABucket

abby normal said:


> can you say why you feel out of place?


 
 I'm joking haha it's just because they're a lot older


----------



## abby normal

bucketinabucket said:


> I'm joking haha it's just because they're a lot older


 
 as long as you don't mind, it doesn't matter.


----------



## Amish

...and music is timeless. Age has no relevance. It sometimes means us older folk have more money to spend on this hobby though.


----------



## abby normal

^^​^ or in the case of this old man, somewhat less.


----------



## AppleheadMay

bucketinabucket said:


> Meanwhile I'm 18 years old and feeling very out of place :1


 
 That's it folks, no more swearing or using the "S" and "F" words. There are children here so mind your language!
  


abby normal said:


> can you say why you feel out of place?


 
 Because he's still wearing diapers? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


vapman said:


> I'm planning on being deaf by the time I turn 60, I probably will be sick of music by then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 By the time you turn 60 you will be retired and have all the time in the world to enjoy music and have an insatiable lust to either try all the new marvelous amps and phones or go back to basics and enjoy the current decent amps that will then be called vintage. You'll have the cash because the gear you''ll have by then will be vintage and people will pay a fortune for it. Believe me, my crystal ball is never wrong.


----------



## AppleheadMay

vapman said:


> I'm planning on being deaf by the time I turn 60, I probably will be sick of music by then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 "Goldpoint" being? A fuse? Link?
 Google is my friend but not early in the mornin' ...


----------



## vapman

appleheadmay said:


> "Goldpoint" being? A fuse? Link?
> Google is my friend but not early in the mornin' ...


 

 My apologies, got ahead of myself there.
  
 They make super nice level controls: http://goldpt.com/ is their site (check that old school design!!!)


----------



## AppleheadMay

vapman said:


> My apologies, got ahead of myself there.
> 
> They make super nice level controls: http://goldpt.com/ is their site (check that old school design!!!)


 
  
 Ah, volume control, ok. Stepped like most vintage ones?
 Not going to give any advice as I know nothing on the subject.
 Lemme know what you find out tho', interested as well.
  
 By the way, is it normal if you turn off your vintage receiver with volume control completely set to zero that it gives a nice thump through your speakers?
 Was that the way in the good old times to let you know everything is A-OK?


----------



## vapman

appleheadmay said:


> Ah, volume control, ok. Stepped like most vintage ones?
> Not going to give any advice as I know nothing on the subject.
> Lemme know what you find out tho', interested as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Having only experience with a limited number of brands, I suppose this could be by design, but I have a feeling it's either a relay that's supposed to be kicking in but isn't or is somehow overlooked in the design. While it's possible it's by design, my understanding is that with the volume set to zero, turning on and off should be silent.


----------



## AppleheadMay

vapman said:


> Having only experience with a limited number of brands, I suppose this could be by design, but I have a feeling it's either a relay that's supposed to be kicking in but isn't or is somehow overlooked in the design. While it's possible it's by design, my understanding is that with the volume set to zero, turning on and off should be silent.


 
  
 It's the SX-1250. No idea about the other two, I'm slow at testing.
 Didn't test a thing yesterday, only pleayed the same record on the DP-47F with SX-1250 all day long.
 Black Sabbath in the Dio years. Heaven and Hell. You just gotta love "Neon Knights"!
  





  
 Sorry, no smiley for headbangin'. Such a huge forum should provide us a broader selection of smileys.
 A smiley with an angel for example, fits me exactly.
  
 Please report this post to the mods so they are aware there's work to be done. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 See, I needed the angel smiley now ...


----------



## vapman

appleheadmay said:


> It's the SX-1250. No idea about the other two, I'm slow at testing.
> Didn't test a thing yesterday, only pleayed the same record on the DP-47F with SX-1250 all day long.
> Black Sabbath in the Dio years. Heaven and Hell. You just gotta love "Neon Knights"!
> 
> ...


 

 This guy has before and after pictures of restoring his whole SX 1250, but you might want to check out just the protection board before and afters.
  
 http://mattsvintageaudiorepair.blogspot.com/2012/01/pioneer-sx-1250-score.html
  
 Some googling indicates the health of the caps has something to do with the reliability of the relay. Those parts in the picture look pretty tired so if I were you (and if you are handy/have the tools) doing a recap and replacing that relay.
  
 Should should the same but not spit out a nasty pulse to your speakers upon shutting it off. You don't wanna hurt your speakers probably


----------



## AppleheadMay

vapman said:


> This guy has before and after pictures of restoring his whole SX 1250, but you might want to check out just the protection board before and afters.
> 
> http://mattsvintageaudiorepair.blogspot.com/2012/01/pioneer-sx-1250-score.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think the thump is pretty normal. @Skylab should know sice he had a 1250 and now a 1980.
 Maybe I should make sure it is witched to the input that was not last used?
  
 This is what has been done to mine:
  
Big power caps replaced
All tantalum caps replaced (15)
A few necessary electrolyte caps replaced
A few necessary transistors replaced
*Speaker protection relay replaced*
Lights replaced
Full cleaning and de-oxidizing
Solder inspection
DC offset and bias current calibrated
Full calibration and endurance test on dummy load and reactive strain (6Ohm + 4uF parallel shunted)
Some minor tweaks
Wood oiled
  
 Sorry for the blue lines that are no links, copy/paste from Microbully Word. Blame Bill.


----------



## Skylab

Actually, no, that's not normal or good. If you have an audible thump coming from your speakers when you power up or down, then you probably need to adjust the DC offset. The thump can eventually become so bad that it could potentially damage speakers although more likely in 1250's case, the speaker protection circuit will save the speakers, although it will prevent the receiver from actually working 

Further reading: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/amplifier-distortion-dc-offset-and-you.5634/


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Actually, no, that's not normal or good. If you have an audible thump coming from your speakers when you power up or down, then you probably need to adjust the DC offset. The thump can eventually become so bad that it could potentially damage speakers although more likely in 1250's case, the speaker protection circuit will save the speakers, although it will prevent the receiver from actually working
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not that loud and only happens when powering down. But it is audible.
 But if I put the speaker selector to off or to one of the unused speaker outputs there is no thump.
 Strange because the speaker protection relais have been renwed and DC offset calibrated like I posted above.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Maaan, still listening to Sabbath with Dio. Addicted!


----------



## PhoenixG

vapman said:


> This guy has before and after pictures of restoring his whole SX 1250, but you might want to check out just the protection board before and afters.
> 
> *http://mattsvintageaudiorepair.blogspot.com/2012/01/pioneer-sx-1250-score.html*
> 
> ...


 
 That's the guy I used to restore my SX-1980. He does a really good job, but has a wait list around 7-8 months last I saw. 
 Really nice to work with, couldn't recommend him higher.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Mixed & Matched:
  

  
 One DAC to Rule Them (Amps) All!
  
 r2


----------



## roadcykler

That's some nice Schiit (and other stuff too).


----------



## roadcykler

appleheadmay said:


> Maaan, still listening to Sabbath with Dio. Addicted!


 
 Not me. I can quit any time I want to.


----------



## AppleheadMay

roadcykler said:


> Not me. I can quit any time I want to.


 
 Congrats but ...
  


r2muchstuff said:


> Mixed & Matched:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ... he sure can't.
  
 That's about 5% of his gear I guess.
  
 R2 man ...


----------



## ssrock64

Not exactly on topic, but I don't think I've ever seen that many portable rigs in one collection.


----------



## AppleheadMay

ssrock64 said:


> Not exactly on topic, but I don't think I've ever seen that many portable rigs in one collection.


 
  
 You mean the ones on the right?


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> It's not that loud and only happens when powering down. But it is audible.
> But if I put the speaker selector to off or to one of the unused speaker outputs there is no thump.
> Strange because the speaker protection relais have been renwed and DC offset calibrated like I posted above.


 
  
 Skylab is right that any power on/off thump on the 1250 is bad.  I get no such issues on mine.  Usually the protection relay must be replaced (or the caps driving it).
  
 If it stays engaged too long you will get a power off thump.


----------



## Oregonian

speakerbox said:


> Skylab is right that any power on/off thump on the 1250 is bad.  I get no such issues on mine.  Usually the protection relay must be replaced (or the caps driving it).
> 
> If it stays engaged too long you will get a power off thump.


 

 Agreed - having 8 vintage systems in use, NONE have a power on/off thump.  Something is not right with the 1250.  My 1050 is rock solid silent.


----------



## Mechans1

I have no vintage system running right now except for a tube Fisher 400 receiver, which I have not hooked up to speakers in a while. I remember getting a subdued bump /thump from the Fisher.  I recall getting a thump from the  Kenwood KA- 7100 I used for over 20 years.    I tried to buy another KA-7100 for my son who wanted to have what I used as a Teenager.  I  was unable to buy one without serious issues.  I was astonished by sellers who say it's 'working' if a light turns on when the on switch is flipped.  This happened a few times and I gave up !   Yes I got my money back  but is was a pain I didn't need.
 Do you vintage guys repair them yourselves or do you have access to techs that can work on them?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Weird, the speaker protection relays and all caps have been replaced though.
 The thump sin't there when I switvh the speaker button off first like I usually do on all my amps.
 And it isn't loud. Audible but not loud.


----------



## SpeakerBox

mechans1 said:


> Do you vintage guys repair them yourselves or do you have access to techs that can work on them?


 
  
 I repair my own - but am a Electrical Engineer so that does not hurt.


----------



## Skylab

appleheadmay said:


> Weird, the speaker protection relays and all caps have been replaced though.
> The thump sin't there when I switvh the speaker button off first like I usually do on all my amps.
> And it isn't loud. Audible but not loud.




Well of course the thump isn't there when you switch the speaker button off first...because then there are no speakers connected for you to hear the thump from!  

DC offset can drift. If you have a multimeter, you should check this. If you don't have a multimeter, you should get one


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> DC offset can drift. If you have a multimeter, you should check this. If you don't have a multimeter, you should get one


 
  
 That can especially be an issue if the adjustment pots were not replaced.  Old pots don't always hold their settings and will drift with heating and cooling.


----------



## AppleheadMay

skylab said:


> Well of course the thump isn't there when you switch the speaker button off first...because then there are no speakers connected for you to hear the thump from!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know, I know, and I knew the minute I posted it, I knew my statement was just as logical as it sounded stupid. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Yes, I am the proud owner of a multimeter which I have used once. I have no idea how to use it anymore and even if you explained it to me I would be able to use it but that wouldn't fix the problem. 
 So, Im going to my repair guy again and have them check those protector relays for free this time.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> That can especially be an issue if the adjustment pots were not replaced.  Old pots don't always hold their settings and will drift with heating and cooling.


 
  
  
 I posted it somehwhere befor but with the sheer number of pots replaced I think there isn't an old pot in the thing anymore. All tantalums and electrolityc ones have been replaced and I have a bag full of the old pots here.
 He also did a DC-offst check. I posted it somewhere in this thread.


----------



## PhoenixG

appleheadmay said:


> I posted it somehwhere befor but with the sheer number of pots replaced I think there isn't an old pot in the thing anymore. All tantalums and electrolityc ones have been replaced and I have a bag full of the old pots here.
> He also did a DC-offst check. I posted it somewhere in this thread.


 
 I think you are mixing capacitors with potentiometers. Caps store charge and come in electrolytic flavors among others. Pots are variable resistors and are usually turned to be set. they can get small drift issues with extensive use or long periods with high heat. Small drift can lead to large changes in where things are set to inside.


----------



## AppleheadMay

phoenixg said:


> I think you are mixing capacitors with potentiometers. Caps store charge and come in electrolytic flavors among others. Pots are variable resistors and are usually turned to be set. they can get small drift issues with extensive use or long periods with high heat. Small drift can lead to large changes in where things are set to inside.


 
  
 Indeed. I know the difference between a cap and a pot very well but 't was ealy in the mornin' here. Besides, a capacitor in my labgueage is called a condensator. Confuison all around. nevermind me ...


----------



## SX3900

+1 for no power on thump for both my SX-3900 & SX-3800 during on/off switching. But you do hear the delayed power relays kick-in.


----------



## Amish

Well I doubt this amp fits here but it is vintage! Magnavox 8802 (running a set of Hsu speakers and powering my cans via HiFiMan - HE-Adapter)


----------



## r2muchstuff

I love it!  Where did you find such a lovely thing?
  
 I have only seen such on a basic metal base or re boxed into wood frames.
  
 r2


----------



## Amish

r2muchstuff said:


> I love it!  Where did you find such a lovely thing?
> 
> I have only seen such on a basic metal base or re boxed into wood frames.
> 
> r2


 

 Thanks!
 It still has the metal chassis but it has been painted white and the builder hand crafted a very nice wood base for it which he also painted white and blue. This unit was pulled out of a vintage Maggie console, rebuilt, upgraded to be standalone. The builder is a guy by the name of Dave Ricciardi. He's built and sold around a dozen or so amps so far.


----------



## r2muchstuff

amish said:


> Thanks!
> It still has the metal chassis but it has been painted white and the builder hand crafted a very nice wood base for it which he also painted white and blue. This unit was pulled out of a vintage Maggie console, rebuilt, upgraded to be standalone. The builder is a guy by the name of Dave Ricciardi. He's built and sold around a dozen or so amps so far.


 
 The paint and trim work is awesome.  So.....'50s.
  
 How is the SQ?  Compared to other amps?
  
 Thanks,
  
 r2


----------



## Amish

r2muchstuff said:


> The paint and trim work is awsome.
> 
> How is the SQ?  Compared to other amps?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah he did a great job on paint and trim. He made some custom fabricated transformer covers and just did a great job giving it that 50's look. 
  
 It has a beautiful sound and I'm really quite taken with it. He worked some magic on this amp for sure. The amp is dead quiet, SQ is really good yet it still has a lush tube sound, but I will need some time with it before I can pass final judgement. I just received it yesterday.
  
 I can say I am very impressed with it so far. I have to admit I was expecting it to sound nice but so far I've been shocked at just how nice it really sounds.


----------



## ahess

Hi all. 
New member here. I'm rekindling an interest in hifi after many years dormant. I have a burning question and this seems like the right place to ask it:

My system: I have a Logitech Tramsporter that I use as a DAC/preamp that has been modified with tubes. My amp is a Sony TA-4650 that I use only as a power amp. I bought it almost 40years ago-when I was 16! It is a vfet and is known for a 'tube-like' sound. So I guess I have a 'tubey' system? It all goes out to a pair of Totem Sttafs.

I'm looking for a wonderful, affordable headphone so I can listen to music in our small apartment around my family. I'm REALLY interested in the Audeze LCD2--I like a neutral-to-warm flat response, imaging, resolution, etc. Audeze is at the high end of what I can afford.



Would Audeze be a good match? Any others I should look into? 

Oh, and I'm open to getting a head amp at some point.

Thanks!
Andrew


----------



## AppleheadMay

ahess said:


> Hi all.
> New member here. I'm rekindling an interest in hifi after many years dormant. I have a burning question and this seems like the right place to ask it:
> 
> My system: I have a Logitech Tramsporter that I use as a DAC/preamp that has been modified with tubes. My amp is a Sony TA-4650 that I use only as a power amp. I bought it almost 40years ago-when I was 16! It is a vfet and is known for a 'tube-like' sound. So I guess I have a 'tubey' system? It all goes out to a pair of Totem Sttafs.
> ...


 
  
 Welcome!
  
 Not a fan of planars in general and the LCD2 in particular.
 Get a Senn HD650 for a 5th of the price or look for one of the Fostex TH-xxx massdrop series.
 Or a bunch of other possibilities, Maybe a used HD800 or new ATH-W1000X?
 Also check out the classifieds here, usually some good stuff around but do check for traders with decent feedback.
 And no, I have no phones for sale at the moment.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I have Sennheiser HD 650 and Beyerdynamics T90.  I find both to sound good out of my vintage Pioneer amps.  The 650 is very warm with enough sparkle, the T90 brings more of everything, but you may find the treble too strong.  With my old age ears I am really enjoying the T90.
  
 Having both gives me a choice in sound signature to go with my mood/music.  Price of both with careful shopping is not much different than the LCD cost.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> I have Sennheiser HD 650 and Beyerdynamics T90.  I find both to sound good out of my vintage Pioneer amps.  The 650 is very warm with enough sparkle, the T90 brings more of everything, but you may find the treble too strong.  With my old age ears I am really enjoying the T90.
> 
> Having both gives me a choice in sound signature to go with my mood/music.  Price of both with careful shopping is not much different than the LCD cost.
> 
> ...




Does that mean you have only @ pairs of phones R2?
If that's true I'm eating borh my hat bowtie!


----------



## r2muchstuff

appleheadmay said:


> Does that mean you have only @ pairs of phones R2?
> If that's true I'm eating borh my hat bowtie!


 

 No, I have others, but they are all mid and lower fi.  I am still scaling the TOL headphone ladder.  Just turned down a deal on LCD3, due to too much spending lately 
  
 I would like to get the love child of a HD 650 & T90 mating.  I am still not sure what the will be or when.  Suggestions?
  
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> No, I have others, but they are all mid and lower fi.  I am still scaling the TOL headphone ladder.  Just turned down a deal on LCD3, due to too much spending lately
> 
> I would like to get the love child of a HD 650 & T90 mating.  I am still not sure what the will be or when.  Suggestions?
> 
> r2




Ah, ok, I was getting worried about you.


----------



## r2muchstuff

appleheadmay said:


> Ah, ok, I was getting worried about you.


 

 Just thinking ... maybe I should sell some stuff, then I could get to TOL headphones quicker.
  
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> Just thinking ... maybe I should sell some stuff, then I could get to TOL headphones quicker.
> 
> r2


 
  
 Sure there's anything you can sell you won't miss?


----------



## r2muchstuff

appleheadmay said:


> Sure there's anything you can sell you won't miss?


 

 That is a problem 
  
 The main issue is I am just not sure of the best selling method, local, ebay, craig's list or what?
  
 None of the above are real appealing.
  
 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

Well, for valuable stuff I have that problem as well.
 As I live in the EU Craig's list is not really an option when it comes to vintage 20 pounds receivers.
 So for me it's a dedicated local hifi forum, Head-fi vor nearby Head-Fiers or ebay with pick-up only which slims the chances.
 I could do eBay with shipping but then all risks for the buyer.


----------



## Luckbad

ahess

I highly recommend the Sennheiser HD650 as your first hifi headphone.

Many of us have gone through dozens of more expensive headphones and still use them.

They're still my all around favorites after years of searching and five figures of headphone purchases.

They are particularly good with tubes and continue to get better with better gear.

They ultimately might not be your signature, but they're worth owning.


----------



## SirMarc

luckbad said:


> ahess
> 
> I highly recommend the Sennheiser HD650 as your first hifi headphone.
> 
> ...



No doubt, the 650's are my end game cans, and they sound phenomenal out of my 9090. I've heard most of the high end cans, and they all do something better than the 650's, but the way everything comes together on the 650's is just magic to me. I would like to hear the 800 S though, they sound interesting to me...


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> I have Sennheiser HD 650 and Beyerdynamics T90.  I find both to sound good out of my vintage Pioneer amps.  The 650 is very warm with enough sparkle, the T90 brings more of everything, but you may find the treble too strong.  With my old age ears I am really enjoying the T90.
> 
> Having both gives me a choice in sound signature to go with my mood/music.  Price of both with careful shopping is not much different than the LCD cost.
> 
> ...


 


luckbad said:


> @ahess
> 
> I highly recommend the Sennheiser HD650 as your first hifi headphone.
> 
> ...


 


sirmarc said:


> No doubt, the 650's are my end game cans, and they sound phenomenal out of my 9090. I've heard most of the high end cans, and they all do something better than the 650's, but the way everything comes together on the 650's is just magic to me. I would like to hear the 800 S though, they sound interesting to me...


 
  
 Agree with all of you.
  
 If you check my profile you'll see I had a bunch of phones, many $$ ones. There are also a bunch of $$ ones I auditioned but are not mentioned there.
 Now I came down to my three favorite headphones, in no particular order:
 $1200 TH-900 modded to $2300 LA-900
 $2500 Oioneer SEM1
 $250 HD650 (used to be $400 new though)


----------



## Monsterzero

ahess said:


> Hi all.
> New member here. I'm rekindling an interest in hifi after many years dormant. I have a burning question and this seems like the right place to ask it:
> 
> My system: I have a Logitech Tramsporter that I use as a DAC/preamp that has been modified with tubes. My amp is a Sony TA-4650 that I use only as a power amp. I bought it almost 40years ago-when I was 16! It is a vfet and is known for a 'tube-like' sound. So I guess I have a 'tubey' system? It all goes out to a pair of Totem Sttafs.
> ...


 

 If youre hell bent on LCD-2s I recommend the very first version.

 I recently picked up a pair of LCD-2.2 pre fazors and while they sound very nice out of my vintage gear,the sound signature of the Audezes is not much different from my HE-500s,which can be had for a few hundred dollars less than LCD-2s.


----------



## Amish

monsterzero said:


> If youre hell bent on LCD-2s I recommend the very first version.
> 
> I recently picked up a pair of LCD-2.2 pre fazors and while they sound very nice out of my vintage gear,the sound signature of the Audezes is not much different from my HE-500s,which can be had for a few hundred dollars less than LCD-2s.


 

 I have to disagree. Everyone's ears are different and all that jazz but I own the LCD2 F version and I have listened to the HE-500 quite a bit and I do not think they sound the same.
  
 I also have experience with both the LCD2 rev 1 and rev 2 and I personally prefer rev 2.


----------



## Amish

ahess said:


> Hi all.
> New member here. I'm rekindling an interest in hifi after many years dormant. I have a burning question and this seems like the right place to ask it:
> 
> My system: I have a Logitech Tramsporter that I use as a DAC/preamp that has been modified with tubes. My amp is a Sony TA-4650 that I use only as a power amp. I bought it almost 40years ago-when I was 16! It is a vfet and is known for a 'tube-like' sound. So I guess I have a 'tubey' system? It all goes out to a pair of Totem Sttafs.
> ...


 

 The simple answer is yes. I'm a huge tube fan and the LCD2 rev2F works wonderfully with tubes.
  
 The complicated answer is...go listen to as many cans as you can and determine what sounds best to you. What i love you may hate.


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> No doubt, the 650's are my end game cans, and they sound phenomenal out of my 9090. I've heard most of the high end cans, and they all do something better than the 650's, but the way everything comes together on the 650's is just magic to me. I would like to hear the 800 S though, they sound interesting to me...


 
  
 Have read in a number of places that some think the 600s are better.  Have been looking into getting a pair.  Also a pair of 650s on my local CL available for $250.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Have read in a number of places that some think the 600s are better.  Have been looking into getting a pair.  Also a pair of 650s on my local CL available for $250.



I had HD580's for 20 years, and compared them to 600's and saw no reason to get a pair. The 650's on the other hand were a clear upgrade, not night and day better, but better in every way


----------



## Monsterzero

amish said:


> I have to disagree. Everyone's ears are different and all that jazz but I own the LCD2 F version and I have listened to the HE-500 quite a bit and I do not think they sound the same.
> 
> I also have experience with both the LCD2 rev 1 and rev 2 and I personally prefer rev 2.


 

 As you said,ears are different.....they dont sound identical,but much more similar than what I expected.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Back on May 14 in post #16143I I posted this:
  
  
  
 Quote:


r2muchstuff said:


> This system is not exactly vintage.  It is located in the bar.  A 9' x 11' room off the kitchen.
> It is actually my newest currently operating rig, important for two reasons:
> 1. The RT 990BX tuner
> 2. A place holder for a SX 1250 & SG 9800 which are in for CLA.
> ...


 
  
 The SX1250 system is now back in place, including a brand new Schiit Modi MultiBit DAC.
  


 r2


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> The SX1250 system is now back in place, including a brand new Schiit Modi MultiBit DAC.
> 
> 
> 
> r2


 
  
 r2, you really don't have enough stuff.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Anyone want something?  I need to down size :l
  
 Lots of '75, '77 & 79 Pioneer plus other brands.
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Anyone want something?  I need to down size :l
> 
> Lots of '75, '77 & 79 Pioneer plus other brands.
> 
> r2



Do you have a Sansui Eight Deluxe?


----------



## AppleheadMay

r2muchstuff said:


> Anyone want something?  I need to down size :l
> 
> Lots of '75, '77 & 79 Pioneer plus other brands.
> 
> r2


 
  
 I'll take the SX-1980.


----------



## vapman

r2muchstuff said:


> Anyone want something?  I need to down size :l
> 
> Lots of '75, '77 & 79 Pioneer plus other brands.
> 
> r2


 

 Yeah, send me whatever you want


----------



## r2muchstuff

sirmarc said:


> Do you have a Sansui Eight Deluxe?


 
  
  


appleheadmay said:


> I'll take the SX-1980.


 

 Out of stock, try again -


----------



## r2muchstuff

Seriously, I have been thinking about listing some stuff on the "For Sale" forums.
  
 Shipping will be the major issue.
  
 The amps work very well for headphones, thus I feel they are appropriate.
  
 Would anyone on Head-Fi be interested?
  
 r2


----------



## vapman

I think all the above posts were really trying to ask you for a list of what's available


----------



## Oregonian

r2muchstuff said:


> Seriously, I have been thinking about listing some stuff on the "For Sale" forums.
> 
> Shipping will be the major issue.
> 
> ...


 

 If you're serious about selling, I'd post the items on Audiokarma as well.  Much more traffic specifically by vintage fans. 
  
 By the way, you can never have enough vintage...............I have 8 systems in use with one spare receiver for get togethers.  6 Pioneer systems, a Kenwood, a Fisher and the spare is a sweet Hitachi 100wpc.


----------



## AppleheadMay

oregonian said:


> If you're serious about selling, I'd post the items on Audiokarma as well.  Much more traffic specifically by vintage fans.
> 
> By the way, you can never have enough vintage...............I have 8 systems in use with one spare receiver for get togethers.  6 Pioneer systems, a Kenwood, a Fisher and the spare is a sweet Hitachi 100wpc.


 
  
 I still love Pink Floyd!


----------



## Monsterzero

A question to all my Monster owners out there:

 Will a 100+wpc monster drive headphones with more authority than a 50 wpc receiver?

 My birthday is approaching.My wife told me to find what I want,so im debating a new pair of headphones or a receiver.Had settled on a Concept 11.0 receiver,but byt the time I got home the damn thing sold.

 So im back scouring fleabay for a receiver....will it be a significant difference from my Sansui 881,or would I be better served getting headphones?


----------



## r2muchstuff

At this point in my journey, I would get the headphones and then determine what "flavor" of amp would give best synergy with my chosen phones.
  
 For example, I find the Beyerdynamic T90 to work very well with the Pioneer SA 9900 integrated amp  The same amp is not as good with the Sennheiser HD 650.
  
 Just my thoughts, YMMV,
  
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> At this point in my journey, I would get the headphones and then determine what "flavor" of amp would give best synergy with my chosen phones.
> 
> For example, I find the Beyerdynamic T90 to work very well with the Pioneer SA 9900 integrated amp  The same amp is not as good with the Sennheiser HD 650.
> 
> ...


 

 Hmmm....okay lemme explain...my headphone collection ran thru my Marantz 2226b (26wpc) sounds a bit ragged in the bottom end when compared to my Sansui 881 (60wpc)

 What im wondering is that due to the wpc difference,or? My logic is if 60 wpc sounds better to me than 26 wpc,would it or would it not continue to scale upwards with a 100 wpc monster?

 Dont want to waste $$$,but to be honest I cant think of a pair of headphones that I can afford that im dying to have.


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> Hmmm....okay lemme explain...my headphone collection ran thru my Marantz 2226b (26wpc) sounds a bit ragged in the bottom end when compared to my Sansui 881 (60wpc)
> 
> What im wondering is that due to the wpc difference,or? My logic is if 60 wpc sounds better to me than 26 wpc,would it or would it not continue to scale upwards with a 100 wpc monster?
> 
> Dont want to waste $$$,but to be honest I cant think of a pair of headphones that I can afford that im dying to have.


 
 I just looked at your inventory.  OK, with what you have, a bad ass amp is going to give you a boost.  Again it may not work as well with all your phones so I would pick your favorite and find the amp to complement them.  Others may fit in and some may not.
  
 Remember most vintage amps have a resistor across the headphone out.  SA 9800 has 150 ohms, I make impedance adapters to change the phones response.
  
 YMMV,
 r2
  
 Edit, to answer your specific question.  May be the watts or it may be the different amp or both.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Watts help to a point, but my 20WPC HK 330A sounds better than my 1250 on all my headphones (Sony MDR 7506, Sony MDR V6, Sennheiser 555, and JVC HA RX700).  I might add that the 555s (modded to 595) don't sound great anywhere and I will probably sell them.  The MDR V6 sound great everywhere as do the 7506!


----------



## SirMarc

Have you considered HD650's? They sound good out of all my vintage receivers, but best out of my 9090


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Have you considered HD650's? They sound good out of all my vintage receivers, but best out of my 9090


 

 Isnt the HD650 similar to LCD-2? TBH I like the sound signature of my HE-500s a lot more than my LCD-2


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Isnt the HD650 similar to LCD-2? TBH I like the sound signature of my HE-500s a lot more than my LCD-2



Not sure, but there's some serious synergy going on with my 9090 and 650's, especially with good vinyl. Very wide three dimensional soundstage, solid tight bass, smooth as silk warmish midrange and clean, crisp with maybe very slightly rolled off highs. Perfect for me. I pretty much stopped looking to upgrade. I still look at CL from time to time for an Eight Deluxe though...


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> Have you considered HD650's? They sound good out of all my vintage receivers, but best out of my 9090


 
  
 I am actually considering the HD600s, as there seem to be more positive reviews of them than the 650s - but sounds like the 650 are pretty nice too.  Still thinking as to what I will do.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> I am actually considering the HD600s, as there seem to be more positive reviews of them than the 650s - but sounds like the 650 are pretty nice too.  Still thinking as to what I will do.



I've had the HD580's for over 20 years (very similar to the 600's, same drivers and all parts interchangeable), and I found the 650's to be an upgrade. Better bass, a slightly warmer midrange, smoother highs and a better soundstage. The 650's scale up more with better equipment too. If you head over to the 650 thread, you'll be amazed at the gear these guys are using the 650's with


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> I've had the HD580's for over 20 years (very similar to the 600's, same drivers and all parts interchangeable), and I found the 650's to be an upgrade. Better bass, a slightly warmer midrange, smoother highs and a better soundstage. The 650's scale up more with better equipment too. If you head over to the 650 thread, you'll be amazed at the gear these guys are using the 650's with


 
  
 Will take a look, thanks.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Will take a look, thanks.



No problem, good luck


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone own or have experience with the Pioneer SX-1050?

 Will it be vastly different from what I own,or should I wait until another Concept 11.0 pops up?


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> I pretty much stopped looking to upgrade. I still look at CL from time to time for an Eight Deluxe though...


 
 Theres a couple Eight Deluxes on fleaby right now...Ive heard great things about it,but I dont know if it would be vastly different from my 881


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Theres a couple Eight Deluxes on fleaby right now...Ive heard great things about it,but I dont know if it would be vastly different from my 881



Alot of people consider it the best built and best sounding Sansui receiver. I've posted this here before, but when I first got into vintage a few years ago, I saw an eight deluxe local in good shape for like 100 bucks and passed because of the plastic buttons. Ugh! Still kick myself in the ass for that one...


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> A question to all my Monster owners out there:
> 
> Will a 100+wpc monster drive headphones with more authority than a 50 wpc receiver?
> 
> ...


 

 Purely my opinion but I do think the higher power units sound better than lower wpc units.  My Spec setup (250wpc) obviously is overkill for about anything but both it and my SX-1050 (120wpc) and SA-9900 (110 wpc) sound way better than my SA-7500MKII.  Depth of sound and the bass is effortless.


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> Purely my opinion but I do think the higher power units sound better than lower wpc units.  My Spec setup (250wpc) obviously is overkill for about anything but both it and my SX-1050 (120wpc) and SA-9900 (110 wpc) sound way better than my SA-7500MKII.  Depth of sound and the bass is effortless.


 

 Pioneer SX-1050 vs. Concept 11.0,which would have the least redundant sound signature from what I already own?


----------



## Silent One

monsterzero said:


> A question to all my Monster owners out there:
> 
> Will a 100+wpc monster drive headphones with more authority than a 50 wpc receiver?
> 
> ...


 
_And wishing you many more..._
  
 My thoughts on what you could do next requires a bit of luck, timing and patience. 
  
 - Ask the beloved one for a voucher
 - Evaluate whether better cans or better amplification would bring you higher sonic satisfaction
 - Then execute _Sell & Scale,_ using proceeds plus voucher to move upscale with that one chosen piece of better quality
  
 Now, the collector in you will bring internal conflict - _"Mo' stuff or mo' better." _Whatever you decide, may your audio journey continue to surprise and delight!


----------



## Monsterzero

silent one said:


> _And wishing you many more..._


 
 Thank you


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Alot of people consider it the best built and best sounding Sansui receiver. I've posted this here before, but when I first got into vintage a few years ago, I saw an eight deluxe local in good shape for like 100 bucks and passed because of the plastic buttons. Ugh! Still kick myself in the ass for that one...


 
  
 Also, it's one of the best looking receivers IMO, only competition so far are the 1980 and 3700 for me but even then I still give the 9090 a nod.
  
 HD650 on the 9090? Haven't tried that yet, was a bit busy comparing receivers both on 1 pair of speakers and 1 pair of headphones.
 Will give it a try. Are you using the 650 with the stock cable or recabled?


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> Also, it's one of the best looking receivers IMO, only competition so far are the 1980 and 3700 for me but even then I still give the 9090 a nod.
> 
> HD650 on the 9090? Haven't tried that yet, was a bit busy comparing receivers both on 1 pair of speakers and 1 pair of headphones.
> Will give it a try. Are you using the 650 with the stock cable or recabled?



Stock


----------



## SirMarc

Just finished up listening to Genesis Froxtrot on vinyl with the 9090 and 650's and it was awesome


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> Stock


 
  
  
 Thanks, will try with the stock cable first then.


----------



## Wingtip

monsterzero, when it comes to vintage gear, I don't think the total power output of the unit is as significant as the value of the resistors between the amp and the headphone output. Almost any vintage receiver or integrated amp will generate more power than your headphones will typically use. For example, the Rotel RX-1603 is rated at 185 watts per channel into 8 ohms at the speaker taps, but there are 330 ohm resistors between the amp and the headphone jack. Based on some formulas I found online (in this thread, I think), I calculated that it's capable of putting out 4.5 watts at the headphone jack. 
  
 4.5 watts is plenty of power, but the output impedance is 330 ohms. And the resistor values in vintage headphone jacks varies widely; I've seen them as low as 150 ohms and as high as 600 ohms. Most modern headphones are designed for amps with very low output impedance; for example, Mjolnir's output impedance is 1 ohm in high gain mode, and just 0.3 ohms at low gain, and Ragnarok's is just 0.03 ohms. As a result, the headphone sound quality of vintage gear can depend on the interplay between the input impedance of your headphones and the output impedance of the amp. Apparently, amps with high output impedance can cause frequency response variations in some headphone designs. 
  
 In my experience, my 110 ohm Audeze LCD-3 are not affected by output impedance and sound awesome with every piece of vintage gear I've jacked them into. I don't own any others, though, so I can't speak to how other designs interact with vintage gear. 
  
 I really love the Concept 11.0. It's styling isn't as cool as some, but the sound signature is everything I love about vintage solid state: deep grippy bass, warm honeyed midrange, and just enough treble energy to give the music a little sparkle. It did have a high noise floor, though, especially on headphones. I think it has 150 ohm resistors.
  
 I wanted a Sansui Eight for a long time and almost pulled the trigger on an unusual blackface model that popped up on Ebay a year or two ago, but I hesitated for a day and it sold. Last summer I scored a pristine Luxman R-117, recapped and complete with remote and original boxes. It has a killer headphone output, but I don't use it at all and am considering selling it. It's too nice to just sit in a box.


----------



## Monsterzero

wingtip said:


> monsterzero, when it comes to vintage gear, I don't think the total power output of the unit is as significant as the value of the resistors between the amp and the headphone output. Almost any vintage receiver or integrated amp will generate more power than your headphones will typically use. For example, the Rotel RX-1603 is rated at 185 watts per channel into 8 ohms at the speaker taps, but there are 330 ohm resistors between the amp and the headphone jack. Based on some formulas I found online (in this thread, I think), I calculated that it's capable of putting out 4.5 watts at the headphone jack.
> 
> 4.5 watts is plenty of power, but the output impedance is 330 ohms. And the resistor values in vintage headphone jacks varies widely; I've seen them as low as 150 ohms and as high as 600 ohms. Most modern headphones are designed for amps with very low output impedance; for example, Mjolnir's output impedance is 1 ohm in high gain mode, and just 0.3 ohms at low gain, and Ragnarok's is just 0.03 ohms. As a result, the headphone sound quality of vintage gear can depend on the interplay between the input impedance of your headphones and the output impedance of the amp. Apparently, amps with high output impedance can cause frequency response variations in some headphone designs.
> 
> ...


 

 How can you find out what a resistor value is for a given receiver?

 I think im going to go with the Pioneer SX-1050.Theyre about the same price and replacement parts are easy to come by,which cannot be said for the Concept line.Not to mention you can tweek EQ for sub and mid bass/treble,which I really like!


----------



## r2muchstuff

From memory, the SX 1050 has the standard 150 ohm resistor as other mid '70s  Pioneer.
  
 Generally I look at the schematics to find the value.
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

*I am not recommending that anyone do this.*
  
*I am sharing my **experience with my vintage amps and my headphones.*
  
*Do not do this unless you have done some research and know what you are doing, or are versed in such stuff.  I am not an expert and cannot help beyond pointing to the information.*
  
*There are lots of be careful warnings, do not short a non shared ground amp, could create crosstalk, do not create too low of a load for the amp and more.*
  
*You are warned.*
  
 Impedance adapter:
  
 I found this several years ago (at http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm plus lots of reading at AK and other sources)
  

  


> Where: Ro * Ra / (Ro + Ra)


 
   
 Ro is the resistor in the amp.  Ra is the adapter resistor.
  
 For example:
330 * 39 / 330 + 39 = 38.8
  
The headphone "sees" 38.8 ohms instead or 330 ohms.
  
 "If your headphone sounds dark and muddy and is driven by an amplifier or receiver, you might try to decrease the effective output impedance. This also can be done by an adapter, but this time the resistors (with value Ra) are placed in parallel with the audio-channels of the headphone."
  
 ​The above statement is true as far as my experience.  I have an adapter that calculates to 4.6 ohms, that is based on the Pioneer 150 ohm headphone jacks.
 Bass is reduced on both my HD 650 & T90 when connected to the SA 9800 with the adapter.  They become more like their normal SQ from low ohm headphone amps.
  
 It also reduces the volume, but with so many watts to start with(SA 9800 = 100w/ch at 8 ohms RMS) it is not an issue for me, there is plenty of volume.
  
 This is for Dynamic type headphones, Planar phones may not need an adapter as they should not be affected by the output resistor in the first place.
  
 Having fun,
  
 r2


----------



## Silent One

For my Shindo Lab mono blocks (40wpc/Class A @16 Ohms) & modded HE-6, I bought a pair of "Naked" Zero-Autoformers and dropped my 50 Ohm cans down to 16 Ohms.
  
  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 zeroimpedance.com
  
  
 Will pick up another pair Zeroes this fall for my Sansui G-22000 (265wpc/Class A @ 8 Ohms) & HE-6 combo. Will try the HiFiMAN's out @ both 16 & 12.75 Ohms and see what I think.


----------



## Wingtip

monsterzero said:


> How can you find out what a resistor value is for a given receiver?




I get the schematic (usually on vinylengine.com) and look for the headphone output part of the diagram. I have no electrical engineering skills but it's usually pretty obvious where the heaphone output comes off the main amp and what the resistor values are. Sometimes is just baffling, though, as with the Luxman R-117. No idea what is going on in that schematic.


----------



## PhoenixG

This is not my listing/ad - 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/272346168781?ul_noapp=true
 This is one of my absolute favorite receivers and simply has top tier sound quality. Blindfolded, I'd say it was a mcintosh. I've A-B this with a MAC-1900 and a SX-1980 and it killed the 1900 and was a tie (or maybe juuuust beat) the 1980. Build quality is impeccable. Easy to repair and get parts for. Tons of features. Supports a subwoofer (so cool, right? from the 60's), multiple HP jacks (line out can be easily modded into 2nd HP jack)
 I've got a number of this model and if given free rein, would probably get more haha.
 This one has been recapped, and for the $550 asking price, it's a great deal. It's definitely an end game unit for someone that only needs 120 watts.
 I hope someone on this thread gets it, because you'll love it.


----------



## BucketInABucket

I have the 6060FW, the tubey sony cousin. Absolutely amazing little thing...


----------



## PhoenixG

phoenixg said:


> This is not my listing/ad -
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/272346168781?ul_noapp=true
> This is one of my absolute favorite receivers and simply has top tier sound quality. Blindfolded, I'd say it was a mcintosh. I've A-B this with a MAC-1900 and a SX-1980 and it killed the 1900 and was a tie (or maybe juuuust beat) the 1980. Build quality is impeccable. Easy to repair and get parts for. Tons of features. Supports a subwoofer (so cool, right? from the 60's), multiple HP jacks (line out can be easily modded into 2nd HP jack)
> I've got a number of this model and if given free rein, would probably get more haha.
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122092046161?ul_noapp=true
 There's another one available! And it's the one model year newer version (beefier power supply, but same everything else) $450 delivered is a bargain! It's not in as perfect shape externally, but the internals tend to hold up well on these since it's an un-vented chassis that doesn't suck and retain dust.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Sony,
  

  
  
 Serviced and great 
  
 r2


----------



## vapman

Who's near PA and has 2.5k to drop on a sweet looking Crown system?
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Check-This-Beautiful-Crown-Audio-Hifi-System-must-see-Allentown-Pa-18109-/252495605516?hash=item3ac9e92f0c:g:jesAAOSwIgNXq3RR
  
 I have never seen a non-pro oriented Crown. I would LOVE to hear this IRL if i could...


----------



## Monsterzero

Slightly off-topic post here:

 Anyone have any experience with replacing the elastic headband of an AKG K-340?

 My pair like most have a headband that needs replacing/modding to provide a tighter clamping force,which brings out the bass more.

 I have applied a little pressure around the cups while listening and im actually shocked at how good these old cans sound,but when i let go that amazing sound mostly goes away.

 I have all the Do-it-Yourself savvy of a fire hydrant,so i would be willing to pay someone with the know how to do it for me.

 Thoughts?

 EDIT:Modded the pads with some toilet paper between grill and pads....wow,that improved the bass response tremendously!

 Back before the planar craze these were considered to be the 2nd hardest headphone to drive.Plugged right into the headphone jack of my 881 I cannot get above 10 o'clock before the volume becomes earsplitting.

 These are a bit bright,with incredible treble extension....but overall SQ is REALLY good.I highly recommend picking up a pair if you can find one.....totally smokes anything ive heard in the sub 500.00 category,and not far behind the 1000.00 price point.


----------



## Amish

Magnavox


----------



## vapman

amish said:


> Magnavox


 
 Holy heck, that looks like a Danelectro product I love it!


----------



## SirMarc

amish said:


> Magnavox



Very cool looking, nice find!


----------



## Amish

Thanks guys! I really enjoy this amp for sure.


----------



## buson160man

monsterzero said:


> Anyone own or have experience with the Pioneer SX-1050?
> 
> Will it be vastly different from what I own,or should I wait until another Concept 11.0 pops up?


 

 As a proud owner of the concept 16.5 . It is a stunning sounding headphone amp . Though at times with the stepped volume control sometimes it is hard getting a good volume adjustment for proper listening levels . The 16.5 plays with such authority that listening sessions can be very exciting . I would definitely wait till another concept 11.0 appears . It is definitely worth waiting for .


----------



## BobG55

buson160man said:


> monsterzero said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone own or have experience with the Pioneer SX-1050?
> ...


 

 Ah man, would I love to own one of those babies > Concept 16.5 which comes w/ a damping factor of 450 = Holy Grail.  The bass and lower mids sound must be out of this world.  The last one I found is still on FleeBay as I'm writing this.  It goes for $2,000.00 US.  I live in Canada > currency exchange + s&h cost (U.S. currency again) + customs fees = unaffordable in my case.  Very happy for you buson160man.  Hell of an amp.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I'll be selling off my SX-1250 or 9090, my Kappa 7s and Denon DP-47f if anyone in Europe or the UK is interested.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> I'll be selling off my SX-1250 or 9090, my Kappa 7s and Denon DP-47f if anyone in Europe or the UK is interested.


 
  
 Not happy with the 1250?


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> Not happy with the 1250?


 
  
 No, that's not it. I'm just going to stick to my Marantz steup and keep one vintage amp for headphone use.
 Besides that I'm re-discovering photography which means 2 bodies and a bunch of lenses so I'm putting some money in that.
 Can't have it all.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> No, that's not it. I'm just going to stick to my Marantz steup and keep one vintage amp for headphone use.
> Besides that I'm re-discovering photography which means 2 bodies and a bunch of lenses so I'm putting some money in that.
> Can't have it all.


 
  
 Makes sense - we must prioritize!


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> Makes sense - we must prioritize!


 
  
 Indeed!
 Put them for sale on a Dutch site. Not much interest in vintage it seems.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> Indeed!
> Put them for sale on a Dutch site. Not much interest in vintage it seems.


 
  
 Personally I would not let the 1250 go - I listen to mine more than any of my other gear.  Been inside many vintage pieces and have never seen build quality like in the 1250.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Prrrrretttty sweet! 
 Quote: 





speakerbox said:


> Personally I would not let the 1250 go - I listen to mine more than any of my other gear.  Been inside many vintage pieces and have never seen build quality like in the 1250.


 
  
 It's a hell of an amp indeed but the 9090 is no slouch as well. It has a distictly different sound from the 1250 so it would come down to preferences between those two.
 Also, the 9090 has dual phones out and midtones control, handy when listening to phones. Tough choice I'd say.
 As to the Aiwa AX-7600 that one is really great with phones, it comes very close to my ECBW. And with a pair of bookshelves it makes for a nice budget desktop setup.
  
 My setup will be: iMac with Roon to Auralic Aries streamer to Marantz NA-11 S1 dac to PM-11 S3 integrated with B&W PM1 on the desktop and 804 D3 floorstanders on the other side of my man cave. There's also a ST6003 tuner and a TT-15 S1 turntable still has to be added.
 My phones setup will be connected from the unbalanced outputs of the NA-11 S1 to the Black Widow and looped through to the Zana Deux S. The Zana then couples back to the PM-11 S3 integrated speaker amp which I can put in power amp mode and enjoy the Zana as a tube preamp as well.
 Three pair of cans: Pioneer Master 1, LA-900 and HD650.
 Prrrrretttty sweet setup, really enjoying it so far! 
 Still have to see where I'll squeeze one of the vintage amps in though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

appleheadmay said:


> It's a hell of an amp indeed but the 9090 is no slouch as well. It has a distictly different sound from the 1250 so it would come down to preferences between those two.
> Also, the 9090 has dual phones out and midtones control, handy when listening to phones. Tough choice I'd say.
> As to the Aiwa AX-7600 that one is really great with phones, it comes very close to my ECBW. And with a pair of bookshelves it makes for a nice budget desktop setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wish you nothing but the best in your downsizing effort.  You have many great vintage pieces there.


----------



## AppleheadMay

speakerbox said:


> Wish you nothing but the best in your downsizing effort.  You have many great vintage pieces there.


 
  
 Thanks. The drag of selling sometimes ...
 Problem is this is not the kind of stuff you can easily ship around, best is pickup or meet somewhere.
 Some of it comes in original boxes though, but still, I'm not fond of shipping it.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> It's a hell of an amp indeed but the 9090 is no slouch as well. It has a distictly different sound from the 1250 so it would come down to preferences between those two.
> Also, the 9090 has dual phones out and midtones control, handy when listening to phones. Tough choice I'd say.
> As to the Aiwa AX-7600 that one is really great with phones, it comes very close to my ECBW. And with a pair of bookshelves it makes for a nice budget desktop setup.
> 
> ...



How do you like the 9090 with the 650's? That's what I run


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> How do you like the 9090 with the 650's? That's what I run


 
  
  
 The 9090 is more direct and upfront than the SX-1250 to my ears so that's indeed a good match with the 650 that dampens the enthusiasm of the 9090 a bit. Nevertheless I do enjoy it a lot with the LA900 as well, I really like the sound signature of the amp.
 The SX1250 on the other hand seems more laid back in comparison and took some getting used to for me. Until I tried it with the Infinitys.
 While the 9090 drives the Infinitys really well and gives me the same upfront sound as with phones the 1250s laid back sound transforms to sheer power when turning up that volume knob with speakers like the Infinitys. It can really make those 12" drivers swing!
 The difference between these two amps is much more than subtle, I can pick them out blindfolded anytime.


----------



## SirMarc

appleheadmay said:


> The 9090 is more direct and upfront than the SX-1250 to my ears so that's indeed a good match with the 650 that dampens the enthusiasm of the 9090 a bit. Nevertheless I do enjoy it a lot with the LA900 as well, I really like the sound signature of the amp.
> The SX1250 on the other hand seems more laid back in comparison and took some getting used to for me. Until I tried it with the Infinitys.
> While the 9090 drives the Infinitys really well and gives me the same upfront sound as with phones the 1250s laid back sound transforms to sheer power when turning up that volume knob with speakers like the Infinitys. It can really make those 12" drivers swing!
> The difference between these two amps is much more than subtle, I can pick them out blindfolded anytime.



That's crazy man, I would have guessed the opposite. I wouldn't say my 9090 is laid back per se, but I would say its more open and airy than up front in my system. It does have body and a powerful sound in the mids and low end though if thats what you mean


----------



## richard51

thanks to all vintage guy here... the day i bought this Sansui AU 7700 is the greatest of my audio journey... there is better amplifier now for sure... With all this flexibility NONE... and the contemprary amplifier better than this one cost certainly many times this one cost me...the sound is GORGEOUS , detailed, fluid...and forget the rest...


----------



## SirMarc

richard51 said:


> thanks to all vintage guy here... the day i bought this Sansui AU 7700 is the greatest of my audio journey... there is better amplifier now for sure... With all this flexibility NONE... and the contemprary amplifier better than this one cost certainly many times this one cost me...the sound is GORGEOUS , detailed, fluid...and forget the rest...:atsmile:



Nice!


----------



## AppleheadMay

sirmarc said:


> That's crazy man, I would have guessed the opposite. I wouldn't say my 9090 is laid back per se, but I would say its more open and airy than up front in my system. It does have body and a powerful sound in the mids and low end though if thats what you mean


 
  
 Indeed, that powerful sound and more clarity when I compare it to the 1250.
 But it's less obvious with the HD650 than the LA900 for example.
 Do you only listen with the HD650 on the Sansui? If so try it with some brighter cans.
 My impressions are in comparison with the Pioneer receiver though, they're not absolute.


----------



## Monsterzero

At the risk of raising the ire of purists here.......

 Anyone suggest a sub 200.00 vintage EQ with low noise level that can be added into my home listening chain?

 Prefer more than 10 bands.Prefer functionality over bling.

 Sony HAPS1>Sansui 881>headphones


----------



## vapman

monsterzero said:


> At the risk of raising the ire of purists here.......
> 
> Anyone suggest a sub 200.00 vintage EQ with low noise level that can be added into my home listening chain?
> 
> ...


 
 Soundcraftsmen gear is pretty good and often slept on. They made good EQs and will look good with your other vintage gear.


----------



## SpeakerBox

SAE made some awesome equalizers back in the day.


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> At the risk of raising the ire of purists here.......
> 
> Anyone suggest a sub 200.00 vintage EQ with low noise level that can be added into my home listening chain?
> 
> ...


 

 You want to stay Sansui or open to other brands?  I'm partial to Pioneer - own a SA-9500 but love the looks of the SA-9800. Both have 11 bands of fine tuning ability. 
  
 This thread has been too quiet lately!  My son in law was just given a vintage Harmon Kardon (not sure if it's a receiver or amp yet) that he's giving to me so I'll be receiving on Saturday and then will post pics of some new blood to add to the 9 vintage pieces I own. 
  
 I again thank Moodryn (the originator of this thread) - and for happenstance and luck to have stumbled upon it three years ago.  And thanks to all the hardcore regular visitors here who contribute and share my passion for these INCREDIBLE headphone amps that look great and have the added bonus of driving speakers as well.  We really do have the best of all worlds here with these pieces - and it's like we have a well kept secret society that is open to all but so many won't walk in the door.  Why pay $1K for a headphone-specific amp with no tone controls or loudness or speaker connections? 
  
 Thank you all once again!


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> You want to stay Sansui or open to other brands?  I'm partial to Pioneer - own a SA-9500 but love the looks of the SA-9800. Both have 11 bands of fine tuning ability.


 
   
Im open to all makes/models,as long as it does what its supposed to do(tweek my headphones slightly)and not add a ton of noise into the mix.

 Looked at Luxman,ADC,Soundcraftsmen,Pioneer,Teac....etc...still not sure what to get,kinda feel like I did when I first got into headphones(cluesless)


----------



## r2muchstuff

Pioneer SG 9500 is 10 bands / ch, SG 9800 is 12 bands / ch.
 
SG 9800 finish and looks matches better with the SA x800, SX (x)x80, SX 3x00 and SX D 5000 & 7000.  It has better "Specs" yet to me it has less build quality.  I have both in use.
 
Sansui made SG equals.
 
SAE and Sound Craftsman are both quality EQs.
 
Pioneer made the SG 60 with 12 bands/ ch , SG 90 with 17 bands / ch and the odd CA-100 and MA-100 from 1982 to 1984.  These boast even better "Specs" with the CA (Control Amp) and the MA (Mix Amp) adding mixing, echo, fader and other features and with the MA the EQ was limited parametric in style.
 
R


----------



## SX3900

How do ones call this vintage, when you have your large stereo system before finishing high school?
Its is amazing that over 40 years have come and gone, they still play like they are brand new........


----------



## SX3900

Here is a funny story, the other day, I had guest come over to the house. The guest child pointed to the turntable of my stereo system and asked his dad, what is that thing sitting on top shelf above that silver (SX-3900) thing? 

Its amazing that the child generation does not know what are turntables?
My two cents.....


----------



## vapman

sx3900 said:


> Here is a funny story, the other day, I had guest come over to the house. The guest child pointed to the turntable of my stereo system and asked his dad, what is that thing sitting on top shelf above that silver (SX-3900) thing?
> 
> Its amazing that the child generation does not know what are turntables?
> My two cents.....


 

 I know twenty-something year olds that don't recognize turntables...


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> Pioneer SG 9500 is 10 bands / ch, SG 9800 is 12 bands / ch.
> 
> SG 9800 finish and looks matches better with the SA x800, SX (x)x80, SX 3x00 and SX D 5000 & 7000.  It has better "Specs" yet to me it has less build quality.  I have both in use.
> 
> ...


 

 picked up a clean Sansui SE-7 eq...thanks for your input


----------



## r2muchstuff

Cool, good to stay "In Brand" if for no other reason than looks 
  
 Hi Fi Engine has this:
  

  
 You can download the owners manual and service manual.
  
 r2


----------



## Tony Ng

is my sansui old enough to be called vintage?


----------



## wppk

phoenixg said:


> I've dusted off some headphones that I can't find out anything about and I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I got these as as an afterthought at a yard sale when they were thrown in with a receiver.
> What can you guys tell me about a pair of JVC HP-660. I was able to find 3 pictures online, but they didn't help much- here's one.
> http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/c7/c7caa2ad_jvc2w.jpeg


 
 hello there
 long time after, I found the same in a garage sale. the foam was destroyed, but, once repaired, with new pads, the sound decent. rather well balanced
 laking an amount of highs, and bass too. an increased curve on the mids.
 but not unpleasant. it is very important for the sound of this jvc that the can are ine good position. if you find one, maybe you will have to adjust this.


----------



## wppk

oops ! I have to correct my post. I had plugged the headphones in a headphones amp that was ill plugged. So the sound is really far better now that I hav plugged it the right way...
 with a good eq from my fireface ucx, it is really impressive for headphones form this time.


----------



## r2muchstuff

tony ng said:


> is my sansui old enough to be called vintage?


 
 IMHO Yes
  
 From - http://www.sansui.us/PG_AUD907.htm
  
 "*AU-D907 Series (1978)*
 The second generation of the 07 Series.  Introduced the "Diamond Differential DC (DD/DC) Circuit".  As the results, improved the total harmonic distortion to 0.008% from that of 0.03% on AU-707.  The international version, AU-919 was equivalent to top of the line product, AU-D907.  Frequency response DC ~ 500KHz, 100W + 100W into 8 Ohms within 0.008% (10Hz ~ 20KHz).  AU-D907 was sold at about $550.00."
  
 It comes from the end of the "Silver Era", yet it is Sansui Black   TOL Japan market version of AU-919, maybe 100v AC only.
  
 Also good information - http://www.sansui.us/Issues_IntvsDomestic.htm


----------



## headfirocks

What would be a great choice for a vintage receiver or integrated for LCD-3s?


----------



## PhoenixG

Wow, I never thought I'd get a reply from so long ago. I still have these headphones, but they definitely need new pads. What pads did you use?


----------



## Monsterzero

headfirocks said:


> What would be a great choice for a vintage receiver or integrated for LCD-3s?


 

 If budget is no issue I'd venture to guess the Concept 16.5 with its 450 damping factor,but I cannot afford said receiver so I have no first hand experience.

 I run my LCD 2.2s thru my Sansui 881 and its 35 damping factor,would like a little tighter bass,.just bought a Sansui EQ to assist in that venture,but it hasnt arrived yet.


----------



## headfirocks

That Concept must be a good one, I can't find a single one for sale. What do they go for?


----------



## Monsterzero

headfirocks said:


> That Concept must be a good one, I can't find a single one for sale. What do they go for?


 

 Last one I saw on Ebay,about a week or more ago was asking 2000.00 usd


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> If budget is no issue I'd venture to guess the Concept 16.5 with its 450 damping factor,but I cannot afford said receiver so I have no first hand experience.
> 
> I run my LCD 2.2s thru my Sansui 881 and its 35 damping factor,would like a little tighter bass,.just bought a Sansui EQ to assist in that venture,but it hasnt arrived yet.


 
 I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but damping factor isn't a one stop shop answer for "is my bass going to be tight?"
 There's a lot at play and especially with lightweight drivers (i.e. headphones), the amp construction is more important, with some cool behavior happening with high powered amps and also with very high and very low resistance phones.


----------



## Monsterzero

phoenixg said:


> I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but damping factor isn't a one stop shop answer for "is my bass going to be tight?"
> There's a lot at play and especially with lightweight drivers (i.e. headphones), the amp construction is more important, with some cool behavior happening with high powered amps and also with very high and very low resistance phones.


 

 A few members of this thread have the 16.5 and by all accounts it manhandles headphones like few others can,but I get what youre saying as other factors do apply.


----------



## vapman

I need something like the Concept to hold me over so I can take my beautiful Technics SU-V76 out of commission long enough to do a full recap, rewiring and cleaning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've got a friend offering to sell me his Dynakit but I was much less than impressed with the last Dynaco I had so I'm not in a rush to scoop it up from him.


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> A few members of this thread have the 16.5 and by all accounts it manhandles headphones like few others can,but I get what youre saying as other factors do apply.


 
 Yeah, I'm sure it's good haha. The guys who have it really seem to like it and are always quick to recommend it.
 Quick enough that it can tend to drown out other awesome (or even better) amps. Rarity aside, there are some really fantastic amps at most price points, and the 16.5 is just one of them. That's what this forum is all about.
  
 "I want to drive fast"
 "You should get a Lamborghini"
 "But what about other really fast cars? Ferraris? Maserati's? F1?"
 "BROOOOOOOMMMM"


----------



## AppleheadMay

phoenixg said:


> Yeah, I'm sure it's good haha. The guys who have it really seem to like it and are always quick to recommend it.
> Quick enough that it can tend to drown out other awesome (or even better) amps. Rarity aside, there are some really fantastic amps at most price points, and the 16.5 is just one of them. That's what this forum is all about.
> 
> "I want to drive fast"
> ...





Ferraris and Lambos, bah.
Gimme a Wraith Black Badge for the weekend and an M5 during the week.


----------



## Monsterzero

phoenixg said:


> "I want to drive fast"
> "You should get a Lamborghini"
> "But what about other really fast cars? Ferraris? Maserati's? F1?"
> "BROOOOOOOMMMM"


 
 68 Shelby GT500 or a 71 Hemi Cuda...thanks


----------



## AppleheadMay

monsterzero said:


> 68 Shelby GT500 or a 71 Hemi Cuda...thanks




78 Charger aka The General!
Saw a pearlescent orange one with brownish hues about a month ago, 8.4 litres with supercharger, 840 hp.
166k Euros ...


----------



## headfirocks

How is the Marantz 22xx series with headphones? Is there a particularly good choice among them? Would I be required to attach speakers?


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but damping factor isn't a one stop shop answer for "is my bass going to be tight?"


 
  
 Absolutely correct!  Although, it does not hurt


----------



## frahengeo

headfirocks said:


> How is the Marantz 22xx series with headphones? Is there a particularly good choice among them? Would I be required to attach speakers?


 
  
 A few years ago, I used to run a 2238B with a pair of Senn HD800, and was surprised at how well it sounded.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Hmmm...I am listening to SiriusXM on my 40+ year old Sony STR-6800SD right now through the headphone jack into a pair of ATH-AD700s and all I hear is music.  Of course my eyes are occasionally feasting upon the classic good looks of said receiver and that is a big part of my experience. 
  
 Your mileage may vary but where those miles take you is what matters.
  
 ORT


----------



## headfirocks

Is there a modern headphone amp you would equate that 2238B with, not necessarily for sonic character but for overall sound quality?


----------



## Monsterzero

I have a Marantz 2226b,and while it hasnt been serviced,my Sansui does headphones and bass much better.

 Marantz has the rep for being the warmest sounding of the "Big Three",but I prefer my Sansui,but again my Marantz hasnt been to the shop recently.


----------



## SirMarc

I'm a Sansui guy, but I have a Kenwood kr7600 that sounds damn good. So don't discount them in your search. Always bring your dac and headphones to demo the unit if you can.


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> Marantz has the rep for being the warmest sounding of the "Big Three"


 
  
 Had several Marantz 2230s, a 2270, and a 2215 and all were too warm and lacking detail for me - so sold them off.
  
 Seems they would require a HP that is very flat or maybe a little shy in the base region with a treble boost.


----------



## PhoenixG

speakerbox said:


> Absolutely correct!  Although, it does not hurt


 
 It can definitely be helpful. Although to play the devil's advocate, many tube amps barely manage a DF of 20 and sound fantastic, and some high resistance HP setups can have DF's less than 1 (yikes!). If you were blinded by the DF, you'd miss the good product behind it. Bass 'tightness' is more controlled by things like "are your speakers/hp's any good?, is the response the correct level of flat in the low bass area? do your earphones fit as they should? does the amp have a good feedback mechanism?" and you bet that those things are really hard to package as a bigger-is-better number and drop into the specs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, my 1250 has a DF of only 30 and still sounds fantastic on my speakers and out of this world on my MDR-V6 HPs.


----------



## SirMarc

According to Highfi engine, my 9090 only has a damping factor of 10, but it sound's fantastic with my hd650's. The bass isn't flabby at all, the opposite actually, tight, deep and well controlled. That being said, it doesn't sound all that good with the low impedance cans I've tried...


----------



## Monsterzero

My birthday present arrived today...looks and works perfect...love it


----------



## r2muchstuff

Beyerdynamic 250 ohm headphones (T 90, DT 1770, DT 990, DT 770 in my case) pair well with my Pioneer stuffs. The Senheiser HD 650 does not sound nearly as good, even at it's 300 ohm rating.  The bass is overdone and loose, an impedance adapter helps.  Still not enough to make me happy   The brighter Beyerdynamics are good, with and without the impedance adapter.
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> Beyerdynamic 250 ohm headphones (T 90, DT 1770, DT 990, DT770 in my case) pair well with my Pioneer stuffs. The Senheiser HD 650
> does not sound nearly as good, even at it's 300 ohm rating.  The bass is overdone and loose, an impedance adapter helps.  Still not enough to make me happy   The brighter Beyerdynamics are good, with and without the impedance adapter.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 

 Odd,the only cans that didnt sound good on my 881 was my dearly departed T1s...bass was too bloomy


----------



## r2muchstuff

Synergy, ears, and preferences  
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

r2muchstuff said:


> Beyerdynamic 250 ohm headphones (T 90, DT 1770, DT 990, DT 770 in my case) pair well with my Pioneer stuffs. The Senheiser HD 650 does not sound nearly as good, even at it's 300 ohm rating.  The bass is overdone and loose, an impedance adapter helps.  Still not enough to make me happy   The brighter Beyerdynamics are good, with and without the impedance adapter.
> 
> YMMV,
> r2



Wow, that's crazy. Not with my 9090, even before I got it brought back up to spec


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> Odd,the only cans that didnt sound good on my 881 was my dearly departed T1s...bass was too bloomy


 
  
  


sirmarc said:


> Wow, that's crazy. Not with my 9090, even before I got it brought back up to spec


 

 So what was off?
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

I can't remember, but he replaced around 30 things, caps and resistors and stuff. It was sounding a little dull when I brought it to him. He also cleaned everything and adjusted DC offset and bias and aligned the tuner


----------



## jnorris

monsterzero said:


> My birthday present arrived today...looks and works perfect...love it


 
 Sorry if I offend, but it saddens me to see someone who is obviously into good sound and top quality equipment insert a phase coherency destroying, low quality opamp ridden graphic equalizer into the chain.  The equipment you list in your signature was fastidiously built for unadulterated sound, not tweeked and pinched into a cartoonish mockery of it.
  
 Disturbing, indeed.


----------



## vapman

jnorris said:


> Sorry if I offend, but it saddens me to see someone who is obviously into good sound and top quality equipment insert a phase coherency destroying, low quality opamp ridden graphic equalizer into the chain.  The equipment you list in your signature was fastidiously built for unadulterated sound, not tweeked and pinched into a cartoonish mockery of it.
> 
> Disturbing, indeed.


 
 Do you get this angry anytime you see a setup you don't like here? Lots of people have very varying tastes. Is it a big deal to you if I regularly use MP3 CD's with lossy transcodes as my source? If he likes the sound let him enjoy it.


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> Sorry if I offend, but it saddens me to see someone who is obviously into good sound and top quality equipment insert a phase coherency destroying, low quality opamp ridden graphic equalizer into the chain.  The equipment you list in your signature was fastidiously built for unadulterated sound, not tweeked and pinched into a cartoonish mockery of it.
> 
> Disturbing, indeed.


 

 Sorry it disturbs you.I like it.

 And for the record I only use it in my headphone chain,and my LCD 2.s sound quicker than they ever have,and the bass is boosted....but took the 250hz down 5dbs and muddiness is gone.

 To each their own...learn to live and let live and life will become much more enjoyable...

 Monster


----------



## Byronb

jnorris said:


> Sorry if I offend, but it saddens me to see someone who is obviously into good sound and top quality equipment insert a phase coherency destroying, low quality opamp ridden graphic equalizer into the chain.  The equipment you list in your signature was fastidiously built for unadulterated sound, not tweeked and pinched into a cartoonish mockery of it.
> 
> Disturbing, indeed.


 
 No offense intended, but how absolutely presumptuous of you. It is his gear and his music. This type of thing is the reason people shy away from this hobby. Disturbing indeed!


----------



## jnorris

I knew I was going to stir up some vitriol with my comment.  I in no way said that he shouldn't listen to whatever he likes, whenever he likes, or however he likes.  I just said that the introduction of a graphic equalizer - especially a consumer-level equalizer - is extremely detrimental to the sound quality.  I'm sure MonsterZero will enjoy playing with it for a while, and then, just like I did some 40 years ago, he'll eventually discover that the system sounds more "right" without it.


----------



## Byronb

jnorris said:


> I knew I was going to stir up some vitriol with my comment.  I in no way said that he shouldn't listen to whatever he likes, whenever he likes, or however he likes.  I just said that the introduction of a graphic equalizer - especially a consumer-level equalizer - is extremely detrimental to the sound quality.  I'm sure MonsterZero will enjoy playing with it for a while, and then, just like I did some 40 years ago, he'll eventually discover that the system sounds more "right" without it.


 
      
You actually kinda did.


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> - especially a consumer-level equalizer - is extremely detrimental to the sound quality.  I'm sure MonsterZero will enjoy playing with it for a while, and then, just like I did some 40 years ago, he'll eventually discover that the system sounds more "right" without it.


 
 Unfortunately I cannot afford to drop 1-4k on an EQ...its what I could afford to spend.

 Maybe I will "discover" its better without it at some point,perhaps not.

 I respect peoples choices especially when it comes to something as subjective as sound,music and gear.....I doubt highly that you would pop on "No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith" and find it to be enjoyable.I do,however im not gonna post that your,or anyone elses musical tastes are ****.

 But thats just me.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I'm not a big fan of EQ through soft- nor hardware but each to his own of course.
 But in the era of these vintage amps having an equalizer was pretty common, many brands offered a matching equalizer for their sets.
 That said I did play a bit with the low/mid/bass controls on the Sansui 9090 and I liked the effect it had on the Th-900.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Not a big fan of EQ myself as I am kind of a minimalist when it comes to the audio chain.  That said I do understand that sometimes they can be very helpful.  I do use the multi level tone controls on my 1250 - of course that is all discrete with a total recap.


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> Not a big fan of EQ myself as I am kind of a minimalist when it comes to the audio chain.  That said I do understand that sometimes they can be very helpful.  I do use the multi level tone controls on my 1250 - of course that is all discrete with a total recap.


 
 Remarkably, the 1250 does contain a discrete tone control stage, as well as all the other stages.  The Sansui SE-7 passes the signal through 11 4558 opamps and 2 4559 opamps, as well as a significant number of eletrolytic caps.  As far as opamps go, the 4559/9 are not all that bad when used sparingly, but 13 is a bit much...


----------



## Monsterzero

While I respect everyones musical tastes as to what is good and what isnt,the whole EQ thing kinda perplexes me.I mean arent many of us "EQing" already w/o using an EQ?

 Check out pretty much any headphone thread and inevitably members begin to talk about mods for them....perhaps its a cable change.Maybe its a swapping of the pads....then there are the tech savvy who take apart headphones and add/remove things,punch holes,change drivers,etc....all of which can and do change the sound signature of any headphone,for better or worse.

 Now im not a tech savvy person,so im not about to tear down a a set of headphones cuz all I will be left with is a pile of parts covered in superglue   ,but a free standing EQ...its easy,if I dont like it I can take it out of the chain,not to mention that each adjustment on the EQ brings a different sound to any headphone that is easily reversed.

 Then there are those who want a "warm tube sound" from their amps....isnt that changing the way a particular headphone sounds? Im sure there are folks who call me crazy for dumping my highly respected WooAudio WA2 for a 40 year old box of electronics and wires made in Japan,but thats what I did,and im much more satisfied with my setup.

 Much of the music I enjoy would be deemed noise by some members...im not the guy who sits with his headphones and dissects each breath that Diana Krall takes...I dont listen to classical,nor jazz.....Nope,I like to tap my feet and when my head starts bobbing I know im happy.  If I can EQ Mikky Dee's double kicks from a muddy rumble into an articulate sounding thump thump thump,then Im gonna do it.

 Thats all.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> While I respect everyones musical tastes as to what is good and what isnt,the whole EQ thing kinda perplexes me.I mean arent many of us "EQing" already w/o using an EQ?
> 
> 
> Check out pretty much any headphone thread and inevitably members begin to talk about mods for them....perhaps its a cable change.Maybe its a swapping of the pads....then there are the tech savvy who take apart headphones and add/remove things,punch holes,change drivers,etc....all of which can and do change the sound signature of any headphone,for better or worse.
> ...



I'm in the don't touch the tone controls or use eq camp, but as long as you're enjoying the music and having fun, all the power to you man!  I grew up with an audiophile father and it was beaten into me not to mess with the sound of my gear and I can't bring myself to do it even after all these years, and I'm 45 lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> I'm in the don't touch the tone controls or use eq camp, but as long as you're enjoying the music and having fun, all the power to you man!  I grew up with an audiophile father and it was beaten into me not to mess with the sound of my gear and I can't bring myself to do it even after all these years, and I'm 45 lol.


 

 I grew up with parents who didnt give a d**n about music but the warm sound of 70s gear is the first sound that embedded into my subconscious,so that the sound i prefer...heck I boost the bass on LCD 2s so I can feel drum strikes....

 Just an aging headbanger who like it rough,raw and live sounding......just turned 51.


----------



## Amish

I'm old enough to remember just about EVERYONE using an EQ in the chain. Hell I remember when reverb boxes were loved. I myself used an EQ for many years. Nothing beats good equipment that doesn't need any EQ but sometimes to get that sound you crave a little EQ is the way to go. Even now many people use a software EQ. It is pretty common for people to EQ foobar and such.
  
 So I say enjoy the music any way you can.


----------



## jnorris

In audio, it's whatever floats your boat.  My comments were spurred by MonsterZero's exquisite list of equipment and the seemingly incongruous addition of a Sansui graphic equalizer.
  
 On a lighter note, +1 on Mickey Dee's solo!  I always like to see drummers protecting their hearing with headphones, too.  When I got back into drumming in 2007 after a 30 year hiatus, I started using earplugs to minimize damage.  Now I can't play without them.  I just turned 64 - gotta protect what's left!


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> In audio, it's whatever floats your boat.  My comments were spurred by MonsterZero's exquisite list of equipment and the seemingly incongruous addition of a Sansui graphic equalizer.
> 
> On a lighter note, +1 on Mickey Dee's solo!  I always like to see drummers protecting their hearing with headphones, too.  When I got back into drumming in 2007 after a 30 year hiatus, I started using earplugs to minimize damage.  Now I can't play without them.  I just turned 64 - gotta protect what's left!


 

 Thanks for appreciating my gear...GoldenEar speakers powered by a Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum are by far the best imaging and soundstage Ive ever heard! The only negative on those speakers is the sweet spot is literally a "spot",move a few inches either way and its no longer holographic....and to reiterate my EQ is not in that chain.


----------



## jnorris

I just bought a pair of Martin Logan ElectroMotion ELS (after decades of lusting after Martin Logan speakers) and the imaging on them is pretty spectacular, too.  With all my previous speakers I needed to listen in the dark in order to reduce visual stimulation and get a better sense of image placement.  With these, the image is so strong I can listen with the lights on and still get that sense of a palpable presence between (and sometimes beyond) the speakers.  I'd read that these are somewhat beamy, too, but I'm not finding that to be the case.


----------



## SirMarc

I used to get amazing imaging with my Dahlquist DQ20's, but in the room they're in now, 11x11 with a coffee table in the way, not so much. I do most of my listening with headphones now anyway so screw it lol.

Me and the wife are probably gonna move in a few years, so I'll make sure my next room is better shaped and bigger. It will actually factor in when we start looking at houses...


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> I used to get amazing imaging with my Dahlquist DQ20's, but in the room they're in now, 11x11 with a coffee table in the way, not so much. I do most of my listening with headphones now anyway so screw it lol.
> 
> Me and the wife are probably gonna move in a few years, so I'll make sure my next room is better shaped and bigger. It will actually factor in when we start looking at houses...


 

 Im originally from Los Angeles where most,if not all homes are without a basement....moving to NY a couple years ago I was pleased to find many homes not only have basements,some are finished for a mancave.

 When we were house hunting last year a finished basement that would accommodate my setup was a "must have"


----------



## SirMarc

I used to use a bigger room for the man cave, 22x16, but found I was doing more headphone listening, so I gave my wife the bigger room as a kind of make up room/giant walk in closet. Kind of regret it, but I still do way more headphone listening so its cool. Also got serious points for it lol.


----------



## Oregonian

Come on guys, let's not let the best thread on head fi become a judgmental sound science cluster. 
  
 I run my main listening system as follows - an iPhone5 using EQ10 app, a Spec 1 preamp, an SG-9500 equalizer, a Spec 2 power amp, all run into my Chase RLC-1 remote control which also serves as a preamp.  So I'm adding "noise" and signal tweaks all over the place - multiple times - and I LOVE the sound with all of it in play.  Best sounding system I've heard and it is tuned to MY liking, either out of some nice Klipsch speakers or my HE-6 fed from the taps. 
  
 If you don't like EQ, good for you.  You like EQ, good for you.  We all like what we like.  It's all good!  No need to feel bad about being a member of either camp.


----------



## BucketInABucket

Here's mine:

Laptop > Singxer F-1 DDC > Theta DSPro Basic III > Sony STR-6060FW > Tannoy DTM-8s or Cans

Sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon for my cans instead but everything else stays the same.


----------



## SirMarc

Ok, mine's a bit convoluted 

Android phone or tablet with USB Audio Pro > Schiit Bifrost 4490, or Thorens TD145 w/AT440mla > Dynaco SCA-50(phono stage) > Sansui 9090 > Dahlquist DQ20 or Sennheiser HD650's


----------



## SpeakerBox

Mane Cave: Pioneer PL518 --> Pioneer SX-1250 (tone control in) --> Large Advents or My LS3/5A clones.
  
 Bedroom: Harman Kardon 330a/FM --> Sony MDR-V6 or Sony MDR 7506 HPs
  
 Family Room: Rotel RCD-855 or Pioneer PL516 --> Pass B1 Buffer w/ Leach Phono Stage --> Analog Bypass on NAD M15 --> Jeff Rowland M1s (bridged mono config) --> Home Brew Speakers.


----------



## slex

I got great results using my NAD3020i ( mimby as dac)driving TH-X00 surpassing m9xx i previously on. Lots of power with wider soundstage. Tone control on NAD is useful for TH-X00.It can hit you like a boieng 747 if you are all in


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> Here's mine:
> 
> Laptop > Singxer F-1 DDC > Theta DSPro Basic III > Sony STR-6060FW > Tannoy DTM-8s or Cans
> 
> Sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon for my cans instead but everything else stays the same.


 
 Nice you got vintage DAC now! ,I wonder, what was the dac you had before and does it stands against the theta?
 (btw, please please get stands, you don't know how much it will effect your bass on those awesome Tannoy speakers)
  
 My system at the moment:
 PC > Muse mini >(vintage) Bel canto DAC2\1> Onkyo Integra A925> AR 98LSI \ headphones


----------



## vapman

Did you get the Theta that was in the classifieds recently? I thought about getting it a couple times but didn't!
  
 Damn jealous of those Tannoys!


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> Nice you got vintage DAC now! ,I wonder, what was the dac you had before and does it stands against the theta?
> (btw, please please get stands, you don't know how much it will effect your bass on those awesome Tannoy speakers)
> 
> My system at the moment:
> PC > Muse mini >(vintage) Bel canto DAC2\1> Onkyo Integra A925> AR 98LSI \ headphones


 
 I was using a DACMagic before which was only a placeholder until I got a better DAC. Gets the job done but nothing special.
  
 I have sorbothane hemispheres under those speakers, also gets the job done until I can afford stands.


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> I was using a DACMagic before which was only a placeholder until I got a better DAC. Gets the job done but nothing special.
> 
> I have sorbothane hemispheres under those speakers, also gets the job done until I can afford stands


 
 The theta only "does the job" or the DACmagic? asked for little comparing 
  
 why not build stands? its extremely cheap and easy


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> The theta only "does the job" or the DACmagic? asked for little comparing
> 
> why not build stands? its extremely cheap and easy




DACMagic only does the job but it's not really even close. Think 4 inch speakers compared to 8 inch.

No workshop or space to build them unfortunately.


----------



## jnorris

oregonian said:


> Come on guys, let's not let the best thread on head fi become a judgmental sound science cluster.
> 
> I run my main listening system as follows - an iPhone5 using EQ10 app, a Spec 1 preamp, an SG-9500 equalizer, a Spec 2 power amp, all run into my Chase RLC-1 remote control which also serves as a preamp.  So I'm adding "noise" and signal tweaks all over the place - multiple times - and I LOVE the sound with all of it in play.  Best sounding system I've heard and it is tuned to MY liking, either out of some nice Klipsch speakers or my HE-6 fed from the taps.
> 
> If you don't like EQ, good for you.  You like EQ, good for you.  We all like what we like.  It's all good!  No need to feel bad about being a member of either camp.


 
 OK, back to vintage.  I'm using a Hafler DH-200 that I built in 1981 to drive the Martin Logans.  For a headphone amp / phono preamp I've been waffling between an Advent 300 receiver and a Pioneer SA-8500II.  Vintage enough for ya?
  
 I'm also using a home-built passive preamp in the main system, and a Schiit SCH-13 driving a Rotel RB-980BX for the computer system.  No tone controls anywhere.  My choice.


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> DACMagic only does the job but it's not really even close. Think 4 inch speakers compared to 8 inch.
> 
> No workshop or space to build them unfortunately.


 
 The smallest bookshelf I got/had is 8" ,and it can go down to 25HZ smoothly
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ,but yeah I get what your talking about .I really wonder how is it compare to my Bel canto DAC2\1, upgraded from Violectrick V800 and the differences were pretty big.
 want to trade Bel canto DAC1?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (it has 4 OPA627AP inside :3)


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> For a headphone amp / phono preamp I've been waffling between an Advent 300 receiver and a Pioneer SA-8500II.


 
  
 From what I have heard about the Advent - that is where I would go.  It has had some great things said about it.  Would like to get my hands on one some day.


----------



## jnorris

I've read the reviews and they are all generally positive, but they are all qualified with the phrase "for the price".  The Advent is a rather dark-ish sounding device, Good separation and nice sense of depth, but somewhat lacking in detail, high frequencies and dynamics.  The Pioneer is no slouch, though - although I've only installed it last night and have only an hour or so of listening time.  The Advent did not age well.  It has an audible buzz coming off the power transformer so I'm looking for a replacement and I'm thinking about re-capping the power supply, at least.
  
 With both the Advent and the Pioneer, I'm taking the output from the tape out jacks, bypassing additional gain stages and other sound-shaping circuitry, and feeding it directly to the passive preamp.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sounds like you have things under control.  If you get the Advent up and running to your satisfaction I would be interested in your impressions.


----------



## BucketInABucket

headphones1999 said:


> The smallest bookshelf I got/had is 8" ,and it can go down to 25HZ smoothly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've had 2 8'' driver speakers and heard a lot more and I've never had any of them go below about 40hz well. Which ones did you have?
  
 I'm not giving my theta away for anything 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 unless you trade me a Theta DS Pro Gen VA, then yes please!


----------



## headphones1999

bucketinabucket said:


> I've had 2 8'' driver speakers and heard a lot more and I've never had any of them go below about 40hz well. Which ones did you have?
> 
> I'm not giving my theta away for anything
> 
> ...


 
 The brand name wont say much, no one even know them in my country, which is where they were made (Israel). they used HECO drivers. 
  
 I actually putted them as a desk speakers couple days ago, the bass sounds terrible there but atm they are just speaker to watch videos and other non-audio quality stuff
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 btw reccaped them not long ago. (sorry for the quality)


----------



## SpeakerBox

headphones1999 said:


> the bass sounds terrible there but atm they are just speaker to watch videos and other non-audio quality stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did the bass get worse after the recap?


----------



## jnorris

Judging by the photo, I'm wondering if the re-cap was done correctly with the correct values of capacitors.  I don't even think I see any soldered joints.  Jeez - it looks like one of my "upgrades"!


----------



## vapman

jnorris said:


> Judging by the photo, I'm wondering if the re-cap was done correctly with the correct values of capacitors.  I don't even think I see any soldered joints.  Jeez - it looks like one of my "upgrades"!




Pretty much my thoughts.. headphones1999 always take care when working with AC! =:O


----------



## headphones1999

speakerbox said:


> Did the bass get worse after the recap?


 
 no, it got better.
  
 And yes, the caps are with the right value, only the 5UF ones I changed with 4.7+0.22 if I remember correctly.
 it is all soldered in the right place, I'm just not good with organizing as you can tell
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 here is a picture so you can understand what's going on.


----------



## Oregonian

oregonian said:


> This thread has been too quiet lately!  *My son in law was just given a vintage Harmon Kardon (not sure if it's a receiver or amp yet) that he's giving to me so I'll be receiving on Saturday and then will post pics of some new blood to add to the 9 vintage pieces I own. *


 
  
 False alarm.............he's clearly not a vintage seeker yet.  Turns out to be a very nice 2005 Harman Kardon integrated that would be great for a TV system.............but I use vintage for all four of my TV systems.   Time to hook it up for him and my daughter in their TV room.


----------



## SpeakerBox

oregonian said:


> False alarm.............he's clearly not a vintage seeker yet.  Turns out to be a very nice 2005 Harman Kardon integrated that would be great for a TV system.............but I use vintage for all four of my TV systems.   Time to hook it up for him and my daughter in their TV room.


 
  
 I have a vintage HK330A which I love.  Totally recapped.  Use it as my main HP driver and use it almost every night.


----------



## vapman

Any suggestions for an aging Technics Su-V76
  
 Yes i know it doesn't hand with the big boys but it ROCK and the sub bass feature is second to none.
  
 My to do list

New transformers
Goldpoint volume know
Replace EQ knobs
Replace relay
Build in a 5V Bluetooth receiver


----------



## PhoenixG

vapman said:


> Any suggestions for an aging Technics Su-V76
> 
> Yes i know it doesn't hand with the big boys but it ROCK and the sub bass feature is second to none.
> 
> ...


 
 For what you're planning to pour into that, you could probably get something better than what the final product would be. New transformers are steep, and many good and reasonably priced units come with absolutely silent and shielded transformers. A hard-wired bluetooth is a good addition to anything, though I usually use one as a source on the same switch as the receiver, but external to it.


----------



## PhoenixG

vapman said:


> Any suggestions for an aging Technics Su-V76
> 
> Yes i know it doesn't hand with the big boys but it ROCK and the sub bass feature is second to none.
> 
> ...


 
 This isn't my listing, just a unit with awesome deep bass, superior build quality, shielded (read: silent) transformers, milspec parts, easy to work on, and in need of a little TLC.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112138763929?ul_noapp=true
 At the price this one is going for, and as handy as you seem, I think you might like the end result better if you put the work on this one. (Sony STR-6200)


----------



## vapman

Goood point for sure man, but i want to use this old thing till it breaks


----------



## rockster5

Definitely one of the BEST threads. I have really learned a lot and enjoyed reading this over several weeks!
  
 My current setup:

 Denon DP300F with ortofon 2M bronze (overkill I know but I will upgrade the TT in the future) >  Sansui 3000a > PSB Imagine T's or Senn HD 600 cans
  
 Digital is Macbook Pro > Musical Fidelity HPA V90 > etc same as above


----------



## SpeakerBox

rockster5 said:


> Definitely one of the BEST threads. I have really learned a lot and enjoyed reading this over several weeks!
> 
> My current setup:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Welcome to the thread!
  
 I want a pair of HD600s - Stereophile still has them listed as one of the best cans out there after many years.  Just looking for the right price.
  
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/2016-recommended-components-headphones#b6yaDQ8Z2RDGzeoB.97


----------



## jgreen16

speakerbox said:


> Welcome to the thread!
> 
> I want a pair of HD600s - Stereophile still has them listed as one of the best cans out there after many years.  Just looking for the right price.
> 
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/2016-recommended-components-headphones#b6yaDQ8Z2RDGzeoB.97


 
 Amazon has them for $287.95 right now. The lowest they've been for quite some time on there.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Open-Back-Professional-Headphone/dp/B00004SY4H?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ&tag=cameltracker-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00004SY4H&th=1


----------



## vapman

Welcome to a great thread @rockster5 !!
  
 I'm about to take my Hakko desoldering iron and get to work on my Technics SU-v76. Gonna redo the wiring to bypass several stops the signal doesn't need to make, replace all the potentiometers, and do a full recap while i'm at it... The darn thing is smaller than a lot of old VHS decks! gonna be the smallest receiver I ever worked on...


----------



## SpeakerBox

jgreen16 said:


> Amazon has them for $287.95 right now. The lowest they've been for quite some time on there.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Open-Back-Professional-Headphone/dp/B00004SY4H?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ&tag=cameltracker-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00004SY4H&th=1


 
  
 I took the plunge.  Thanks for the tip.  Can't wait to give them a listen!


----------



## jgreen16

speakerbox said:


> I took the plunge.  Thanks for the tip.  Can't wait to give them a listen!


 
 I hope you enjoy them!


----------



## SpeakerBox

jgreen16 said:


> I hope you enjoy them!


 
  
 I am sure I will.


----------



## StiltsNZ

I inherited my uncle's Sansui AU-555A a couple of years ago and (regretfully) neglected to get it serviced until two weeks ago. Far flippin' out. Why for the love of God did it take me so long? I now have it hooked up at work PC (Foobar2000) > Audio-gd NFB-12 > Sansui AU-555A > Beyer 880s (600Ω) = Head-Fi Nirvana
  
 Just blown away with the depth of bass, clarity of everything, soundstage - the NFB-12 by itself was good, but the extra power and dynamics that the Sansui amp brings to the 600Ω cans is ridiculous!  
  
 Can you tell I'm happy? I'm preaching to everyone in the office and they've all agreed my set up sounds better than anything they've heard before...
  
 ...still a little crackle here and there, but for a 44 year old amp, I'm not complaining.
  
 Although when I crank the start of White Zombie's More Human Than Human, my PA gives me a sideways stare... IYKWIM


----------



## richard51

stiltsnz said:


> I inherited my uncle's Sansui AU-555A a couple of years ago and (regretfully) neglected to get it serviced until two weeks ago. Far flippin' out. Why for the love of God did it take me so long? I now have it hooked up at work PC (Foobar2000) > Audio-gd NFB-12 > Sansui AU-555A > Beyer 880s (600Ω) = Head-Fi Nirvana
> 
> Just blown away with the depth of bass, clarity of everything, soundstage - the NFB-12 by itself was good, but the extra power and dynamics that the Sansui amp brings to the 600Ω cans is ridiculous!
> 
> ...


 
 Congratulations! i live with  the same WOW feeling with the sansui Au 7700, it is so good that i dont turn back to another amp. except Sansui...All my other amp were not on the same league at all...


----------



## SirMarc

Sansui made some nice stuff in the 70's, that for sure. I think my 9090 is my endgame piece. Welcome to the club man.


----------



## northendjazz

> the extra power and dynamics that the Sansui amp brings to the 600Ω cans is ridiculous!


 
  
 I think ridiculous was one of my first thoughts as well , I picked up a Sansui AU2200 a couple of weeks ago and hooked it up and those extra dynamics where plain ridiculous.
 I gave the pots a blast of contact cleaner externally which worked a treat now nice and quiet. I haven't looked inside as it sounded so good, I'm the second owner and its the
 same age as me or within year at least. Speakers are not on my shopping list at the moment but is it best to get speakers of the same age?
  
 So happy I snagged the Sansui it my not be a high end one but it good start.


----------



## PhoenixG

northendjazz said:


> I think ridiculous was one of my first thoughts as well , I picked up a Sansui AU2200 a couple of weeks ago and hooked it up and those extra dynamics where plain ridiculous.
> I gave the pots a blast of contact cleaner externally which worked a treat now nice and quiet. I haven't looked inside as it sounded so good, I'm the second owner and its the
> same age as me or within year at least. Speakers are not on my shopping list at the moment but is it best to get speakers of the same age?
> 
> So happy I snagged the Sansui it my not be a high end one but it good start.


 
 You can do well with speakers of most ages. There's no need to get ones the same age. If you want vintage, sansui made some good speakers (and a ton of mediocre ones) that still go for reasonable prices. I tend to prefer more or less neutral, accurate, and deeeeeep bass, so I don't lean towards the highly tonally colored speakers (i.e. anything before the 1970's, wharfedale....) I like the SP-5500x personally, but that's not a requirement. There are a few other noteworthy ones from other companies (JBL L100's [nice bass, but some noteworthy coloration on these. super cool to look at though...], Pioneer HPM 100's, mcintosh XR14 or XR16's). If you're looking for modern, the sky is the limit. In the budget range, I like the infinity primus p163 bookshelves and the p363 towers possibly paired with a decent woofer. If you've got more $$, you've got more options.


----------



## fate64

Those monster Sansui amps always impressed me I'm thinking about hunting for one soon.


----------



## PhoenixG

fate64 said:


> Those monster Sansui amps always impressed me I'm thinking about hunting for one soon.



I am really fond of the sansui monster amps. They're up there with some of the best. 
On another note, I found this gem in my local record shop today and had to have it. I'm quite pleased with it!


----------



## Rossliew

Between a Sansui AU7500 and an AU217, which would you guys recommend? For headphone use primarily and thinking of driving a He6 with them


----------



## richard51

rossliew said:


> Between a Sansui AU7500 and an AU217, which would you guys recommend? For headphone use primarily and thinking of driving a He6 with them


 
 Same good golden age of Sansui, same power, the au 217 is less old, take the one in the best shape, amplifier this old would need to be recapped....I am in love with my Au 7700.... Sansui give me quality for cheap price...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Either one you choose you will not regret the sound! i have NEVER read a bad review about the Sansuis made  between 1970 and 1980....And i have read them ALL, thousand of pages read ,  before buying mine....


----------



## Rossliew

richard51 said:


> Same good golden age of Sansui, same power, the au 217 is less old, take the one in the best shape, amplifier this old would need to be recapped....I am in love with my Au 7700.... Sansui give me quality for cheap price...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks...may consider buying both LOL! Both have not been recapped, the 7500 has only had its switches cleaned that's all. Will probably just use it till the caps fail..


----------



## SpeakerBox

rossliew said:


> Thanks...may consider buying both LOL! Both have not been recapped, the 7500 has only had its switches cleaned that's all. Will probably just use it till the caps fail..


 
  
 If you use an amp until caps fail you do risk taking out other parts of the circuit with the failure.  Keep in mind these could be parts that are hard to come by.  Just a thought for you to ponder.


----------



## Amish

speakerbox said:


> If you use an amp until caps fail you do risk taking out other parts of the circuit with the failure.  Keep in mind these could be parts that are hard to come by.  Just a thought for you to ponder.


 

 This! Of course most people have no idea a cap is going to blow but on vintage equipment it is not a bad idea to recap just to be safe.


----------



## atarione

amish said:


> This! Of course most people have no idea a cap is going to blow but on vintage equipment it is not a bad idea to recap just to be safe.


 
  
  
 there are some (I tend towards this camp as well) that feel that recapping can change the original sound of an amp and take a if it ain't broke stance.  
  
 obviously there is some downside risk to running stuff with 30yr old caps (or more or less depending) ... but if after taking stock / measurements and things seem to check out ... Personally I'd rather leave well enough alone.


----------



## SpeakerBox

atarione said:


> there are some (I tend towards this camp as well) that feel that recapping can change the original sound of an amp and take a if it ain't broke stance.
> 
> obviously there is some downside risk to running stuff with 30yr old caps (or more or less depending) ... but if after taking stock / measurements and things seem to check out ... Personally I'd rather leave well enough alone.


 
  
 Once a vintage piece reaches the 30 to 40 year level it is a forgone conclusion that caps will fail.  I have recapped at least 50 vintage receivers and have not seen one that did not have a least one capacitor that was not at least leaking (a forerunner to complete failure).  Yes you risk a change in sound if not careful but the alternative is much worse.


----------



## atarione

Listening right now to my late 80s Sony ES stack :  TA-N77ES amplifier / TA-E77ESD / 700ES Tape deck / 730ES tuner /C75ES changer  and I have a Hitachi PS-48 turntable  running this w/ JBL L1 speakers currently.
  
  
 I paid a whopping $75 for the whole sony stack (w/ a N110 amp and also SDP-777ES surround processor (not currently using these items)  stack was in VG condition (meter lamps out : replaced them then 2yrs later the replacements burnt (lol) and replaced them again (mostly leave the meter lamps off now however).
  
  
 I apparently cannot yet post photos as I just joined but I will be back to post photos of this as well as my Onkyo stack (M5050 / P3030..etc) later


----------



## Rossliew

speakerbox said:


> If you use an amp until caps fail you do risk taking out other parts of the circuit with the failure.  Keep in mind these could be parts that are hard to come by.  Just a thought for you to ponder.




Noted with thanks. All depends how busy my buddy is with his refurb works so I may just enjoy the amp as it is in the meantime until I can find a slot in his schedule lol.


----------



## StiltsNZ

richard51 said:


> Congratulations! i live with  the same WOW feeling with the sansui Au 7700, it is so good that i dont turn back to another amp. except Sansui...All my other amp were not on the same league at all...


 
 I see you're running Morrow interconnects - do you notice a significant difference with those?
  
 What are others using as interconnects?
  
 Oh, the other thing I'm considering is replacing the spring clips with binding posts for the speaker connections - not that I'm using the Sansui for anything but headphones atm, but if you've got quality, why lose that through poor connections right? Anyone else upgraded to binding posts?


----------



## wotts

I finally got around to building a rack to hold some of my receivers. Here they are in their temporary home (building a basement bar/ listening area). I still don't have it hooked up, but I'm looking to this weekend.
  
  

  
 Top to bottom: Sansui RA-500, B22, Pioneer SX-525, SX-650, SX-1250, SX-1980 and SX-D7000. Emotiva XDA3 stuck in there too.
 Speakers are HPM-100s.


----------



## richard51

stiltsnz said:


> I see you're running Morrow interconnects - do you notice a significant difference with those?
> 
> What are others using as interconnects?
> 
> Oh, the other thing I'm considering is replacing the spring clips with binding posts for the speaker connections - not that I'm using the Sansui for anything but headphones atm, but if you've got quality, why lose that through poor connections right? Anyone else upgraded to binding posts?


 
 yes Morrow, i must say that i listen to 5 or 6 cables(ordinary one or cables around 100 dollars) and i hear difference at each time, positive one and negative ones.... The better cable i listen to were the Morrow ma1 in the first place, after that i upgrade to the Ma3, and it was an upgrade....Sorbothane mods are greater upgrade than cable for me but i trust Morrow cable now, ... It is certain that there is some others good cable companies but i cannot listen to all, hence i stick with Morrow cable because of the reviews and  the not too high price used of the Ma3, the sound is more clean all across the range...it is very audible in my chain gear...


----------



## Skylab

atarione said:


> there are some (I tend towards this camp as well) that feel that recapping can change the original sound of an amp and take a if it ain't broke stance.
> 
> obviously there is some downside risk to running stuff with 30yr old caps (or more or less depending) ... but if after taking stock / measurements and things seem to check out ... Personally I'd rather leave well enough alone.




Unless one has the ability and time to check the values of the caps to see if they are in spec, this argument about recapping changing the original sound doesn't hold water. An out of spec cap not only may be nearing failure but will also change what was the original sound. Unless all the caps are within spec, a recapped unit will likely sound MORE like the unit did originally, not less.


----------



## SpeakerBox

skylab said:


> Unless one has the ability and time to check the values of the caps to see if they are in spec, this argument about recapping changing the original sound doesn't hold water. An out of spec cap not only may be nearing failure but will also change what was the original sound. Unless all the caps are within spec, a recapped unit will likely sound MORE like the unit did originally, not less.


 
  
 +1 and two thumbs up!


----------



## Silent One

wotts said:


> I finally got around to building a rack to hold some of my receivers. Here they are in their temporary home (building a basement bar/ listening area). I still don't have it hooked up, but I'm looking to this weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Beautifully displayed! Except, the rack doesn't leave any space to stash the BIG AT&T Phone Book (circa 1970s)!


----------



## atarione

some pics of my vintage gear:
  
 Pioneer SX-3600 (I really like the meters on this ..nice sounding receiver also).

  
  
 Sony TA-N77ES/TA-E77ES/700ES/730ES stack.


----------



## SirMarc

atarione said:


> some pics of my vintage gear:
> 
> Pioneer SX-3600 (I really like the meters on this ..nice sounding receiver also).
> 
> ...



That Sony amp is bad ass man. Love the giant vu meters


----------



## atarione

sirmarc said:


> That Sony amp is bad ass man. Love the giant vu meters


 

 why thank you... I really like this amp it is very nice.. you can very easily make your neighbors very angry with such and amp (I personally try to remember that and avoid ticking off the neighbors / HOA..  as I like my neighbors well enough.)
  
 I got quite a deal on the sony stack $75 for the works.. meter lamps were burnt out when I got it... I replaced them, then 2yrs later the replacements burnt out... for some stupid reason sony put the lamps in series on this amp and so if one lamp goes pretty much all 3 per meter go..so I replaced them again.    55lbs~ this amp weighs probably one of the best amps to ever come from Japan (imho).
  
  
 here u can see my cat Fitz contemplating it's awesomeness
  

  
  
 cat likes to rub his cat face on the amp sometimes... meh.. I don't mind he doesn't hurt it none.. and he doesn't claw my speakers either.. good cat.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Any body using HD600s with the SX1250?  Using mine out of the HP jack and quite frankly they sound a little dull.  Only had them a few days so they may need break in.  Thoughts?


----------



## Rossliew

speakerbox said:


> Any body using HD600s with the SX1250?  Using mine out of the HP jack and quite frankly they sound a little dull.  Only had them a few days so they may need break in.  Thoughts?


 

 I once had the SX-1280 and used the HP jack to drive my HE6 and indeed it sounded warm. I'm guessing the amp is tuned to be warm sounding


----------



## SpeakerBox

rossliew said:


> I once had the SX-1280 and used the HP jack to drive my HE6 and indeed it sounded warm. I'm guessing the amp is tuned to be warm sounding


 
  
 The SX1250 has been restored and sounds fantastic with Sony MDR 7506 and my large Advents - not overly warm.  The HD600 are not horrible - just not as detailed as the 7506.  Some have said that the dropping resistors at the HP jack can play havoc with the HD600.


----------



## Rossliew

speakerbox said:


> The SX1250 has been restored and sounds fantastic with Sony MDR 7506 and my large Advents.  The HD600 are not horrible - just not as detailed as the 7506.  Some have said that the dropping resistors at the HP jack can play havoc with the HD600.


 

 You have a point there. My impression is purely based on my personal experience and that the HE6 was generally not warm sounding but amped with the Pioneer, it sounded fuller and lusher (not syrupy lush). In any case, i find the HD600 to be warm sounding as well, not as warm as the 650 but not treble tilted either. In any case, the Pioneer is a great amp!


----------



## r2muchstuff

I find the HD 650 to be tilted towards bass and lacking details when paired with my Pioneers.  If I use a impedance adapter it improves.  The 150 ohm headphone out on most Pioneers is the suspect.  Later Pioneers use 330 ohm which is even worse.
  
 However the T90 works really well with the 150 ohm Pioneers 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## SpeakerBox

r2muchstuff said:


> I find the HD 650 to be tilted towards bass and lacking details when paired with my Pioneers.  If I use a impedance adapter it improves.  The 150 ohm headphone out on most Pioneers is the suspect.  Later Pioneers use 330 ohm which is even worse.
> 
> However the T90 works really well with the 150 ohm Pioneerts
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe I will try from the speaker taps as an experiment.


----------



## r2muchstuff

speakerbox said:


> Maybe I will try from the speaker taps as an experiment.


 

 Please do 
  
 I have be planning a speaker tap project,  so many things to do and so many things to distract me (tube rolling included).
  
 r2


----------



## SX3900

atarione said:


> some pics of my vintage gear:
> 
> Pioneer SX-3600 (I really like the meters on this ..nice sounding receiver also).
> 
> ...


 

 If you like the SX-3600, then you will like its bigger brothers SX-3800 (60-Watts) & SX-3900 (120-Watts).
 Try using the speaker taps for balance mode.


----------



## Monsterzero

speakerbox said:


> Maybe I will try from the speaker taps as an experiment.


 

 Speaker taps for HD600??? I dunno man.....TBH HD600s are NOT that hard to drive,heck my Astro MixAmp Pro drove them just fine for gaming on PS4,whereas they struggled to drive my K7XX for the same duty.

 I no longer own the HD600s,but I used to drive them out of my Woo WA2,which by all accounts is a great match and I also found them to be kinda "lifeless",for a lack of a better term.


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> Speaker taps for HD600??? I dunno man.....TBH HD600s are NOT that hard to drive,heck my Astro MixAmp Pro drove them just fine for gaming on PS4,whereas they struggled to drive my K7XX for the same duty.
> 
> I no longer own the HD600s,but I used to drive them out of my Woo WA2,which by all accounts is a great match and I also found them to be kinda "lifeless",for a lack of a better term.


 
  
 All I know is that they don't sound good to me and I am looking for a solution.
  
 In the HD600 appreciation forum they said that dropping resistors cause issues with them - so will give it a try.
  
 In addition I am running them off the speaker taps on an old Fisher 460A and they sound pretty good there so figure it is worth a try on the 1250.


----------



## Monsterzero

I hear ya....when I first started in this hobby I bought a WA2,Beyer T1s and HD600s,and perhaps it was brain burn-in but I always preferred my T1s sound vs. HD600s.
 The soundstage is too narrow for me,the lack of detail,lack of thump,etc......for me there are better options out there,but YMMV

 I have since moved on from all three and discovered other headphones,sound signatures and vintage gear,thanks in no small part to this thread.

 EDIT: I should note that the T1s sounded awful out of my Sansui 881,bass was too bloomy...in case you were thinking of T1s,wanted to save you some trouble.


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> I hear ya....when I first started in this hobby I bought a WA2,Beyer T1s and HD600s,and perhaps it was brain burn-in but I always preferred my T1s sound vs. HD600s.
> The soundstage is too narrow for me,the lack of detail,lack of thump,etc......for me there are better options out there,but YMMV
> 
> I have since moved on from all three and discovered other headphones,sound signatures and vintage gear,thanks in no small part to this thread.
> ...


 
  
 Am finding that with some break in and using the 1250s multi-level tone controls to tweak things the 600s are growing on me.
  
 Still planning on a speaker tap experiment to see if that yields more improvement.


----------



## Monsterzero

PSA:

 Any metalheads here? Just picked up a beautiful clean pair of AKG K240 Sextetts.

 Very interesting tuning on these,the guitars are quite forward,bring a very aggressive,but smooth(no sibilance)sound to metal.

 Theres a thread around here calling them the "Grado'd" AKG,I understand why now.

 Very cool headphones.


----------



## Amish

Another shot...of the 8802


----------



## i luvmusic 2

speakerbox said:


> monsterzero said:
> 
> 
> > I hear ya....when I first started in this hobby I bought a WA2,Beyer T1s and HD600s,and perhaps it was brain burn-in but I always preferred my T1s sound vs. HD600s.
> ...


 
 To my ears speaker taps sounds better than just plugging in my HD650 into the receiver  headphone jack one thing about speaker taps they are noisy without a resistors.


----------



## SpeakerBox

i luvmusic 2 said:


> To my ears speaker taps sounds better than just plugging in my HD650 into the receiver  headphone jack one thing about speaker taps they are noisy without a resistors.


 
  
 Well - it seems that a combination of HD600 break-in, the tone controls and power of the 1250, and maybe me getting use to the HD600 has made me very happy with them now.  Dead silent via the HP jack too.  Will still try the taps experiment when I get some spare cycles, though.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

speakerbox said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > To my ears speaker taps sounds better than just plugging in my HD650 into the receiver  headphone jack one thing about speaker taps they are noisy without a resistors.
> ...


 
 Your 1250 might be overkill for speaker taps


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, overkill is a distinct possibility!


----------



## jnorris

i luvmusic 2 said:


> To my ears speaker taps sounds better than just plugging in my HD650 into the receiver  headphone jack one thing about speaker taps they are noisy without a resistors.


 
 I was going to mention this in a separate thread, but I may as well bring it up here.  
  
 While building a gainclone amp, I noticed that the sound from the headphone jack (amp output through a 330 ohm resistor) was dramatically inferior to that of the speaker outputs.  I'm thinking the high resistance of the headphone jack was the culprit.  I cobbled together a little divider network consisting of a 10 ohm resistor in series with a 1 ohm resistor.  The output to the headphones was taken across the 1 ohm resistor.  This provided the amp with an approximately 11 ohm load, and provided the headphones with a very low 1 ohm output resistance.  The larger resistor should be the best one you can find since the output actually goes through it, the smaller can be any type.  Both should be high power 5 watt minimally.
  
 The sonic differences were apparent immediately as more open sound with much better high frequency response.  Give it a shot!


----------



## Wingtip

jnorris said:


> The sonic differences were apparent immediately as more open sound with much better high frequency response.  Give it a shot!


 
  
 What type of headphone were you listening to? My understanding is that the high impedance resistors in vintage headphone outputs have a noticeable effect on the frequency response of dynamic headphones, but don't really affect the performance of planar magnetic headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero

I really like my ATH AD2000s with my Sansui 881....they sounded like the midrange was sucked out of them in other amps,but they turn into mid bass monsters thru my Sansui.

 My planars sound great thru it too.

 The only dynamic headphones I dont like thru my Sansui is my

 Alessandro Ms2e(too much bass,muddy)
 Grado Magnum (bass distortion)
 Beyer T1(bloomy bass)


----------



## jnorris

wingtip said:


> What type of headphone were you listening to? My understanding is that the high impedance resistors in vintage headphone outputs have a noticeable effect on the frequency response of dynamic headphones, but don't really affect the performance of planar magnetic headphones.


 
 I was using Shure SE525s, Grado 325 and a few others.  No planar magnetic.  Can't hurt to try, though.


----------



## SirMarc

My 650's sound amazing from the headphone jack on my 9090, especially with vinyl. Big 3 dimensional soundstage, tight punchy bass, lush mids and clean and crisp highs. I couldn't be happier.


----------



## jnorris

I thought I was happy, too, until I heard the difference!  I don't know the impedance of your Senns, but I'm thinking that high impedance headphones may not be affected by the resistor loading.
  
 BTW, this was not my idea.  I have been searching for the excellent web page that I used as a reference without any luck.  The Rob Robinette page has a similar circuit using a 6 and a 2 ohm resistor, which provides a more conventional 8 ohm load to the amp.


----------



## SirMarc

jnorris said:


> I thought I was happy, too, until I heard the difference!  I don't know the impedance of your Senns, but I'm thinking that high impedance headphones may not be affected by the resistor loading.
> 
> BTW, this was not my idea.  I have been searching for the excellent web page that I used as a reference without any luck.  The Rob Robinette page has a similar circuit using a 6 and a 2 ohm resistor, which provides a more conventional 8 ohm load to the amp.



The 650's are 300 ohms


----------



## SpeakerBox

Some in the HD600 impressions thread stated that the HD600s are negatively impacted by the dropping resistors at the HP Jack.  That is what got me going on the speaker taps.


----------



## SirMarc

I don't know what the output resistance is on the 9090, but it must be pretty high because my lower impedance cans don't sound great out of it, but again my 650's sound excellent and that's all that matters to me.


----------



## jnorris

sirmarc said:


> I don't know what the output resistance is on the 9090, but it must be pretty high because my lower impedance cans don't sound great out of it, but again my 650's sound excellent and that's all that matters to me.


 
 The headphone output resistors on the 9090 are 220 ohms - about average.  I am somewhat surprised to see that the phono preamp is a single op-amp, and not a particularly good one.  Usually in top of the line stuff from back then the phono preamp was crafted from discrete components because records were the medium of choice.


----------



## SirMarc

jnorris said:


> The headphone output resistors on the 9090 are 220 ohms - about average.  I am somewhat surprised to see that the phono preamp is a single op-amp, and not a particularly good one.  Usually in top of the line stuff from back then the phono preamp was crafted from discrete components because records were the medium of choice.



Yeah, the phono stage isn't very good, that's why I use a Dynaco phono stage


----------



## vapman

The ART dj pre is a stellar phono stage for the price. Does better than most integrateds. Some have a hum issue though. If that happens to you exchange it for a diff one... They are kind of like kosses in that way...


----------



## LewisASTL

Hi guys
 I have a toshiba sr l55f turntable. I am completely new to that topic, and i do not know who or where to ask.

 Also, the head is broken. Does that tb hold any value? Where i can find a replacement for the head? Can I choose from multiple heads?

 Thanks


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jnorris said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > To my ears speaker taps sounds better than just plugging in my HD650 into the receiver  headphone jack one thing about speaker taps they are noisy without a resistors.
> ...


 
 I actually have mine with 7.5R and 0.5R resistors both are 5W now it's dead quiet.


----------



## jnorris

i luvmusic 2 said:


> I actually have mine with 7.5R and 0.5R resistors both are 5W now it's dead quiet.


 
 I'm assuming you also heard a difference?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Tonight:
  

  
 + Beyerdynamic T90
 or
 Speakers


----------



## jgreen16

r2muchstuff said:


> Tonight:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lovin' the Spec-1 and Spec-4 in the background.


----------



## vapman

lewisastl said:


> Hi guys
> I have a toshiba sr l55f turntable. I am completely new to that topic, and i do not know who or where to ask.
> 
> Also, the head is broken. Does that tb hold any value? Where i can find a replacement for the head? Can I choose from multiple heads?
> ...


 

 vinylengine is a great place to go for anything TT related!


----------



## Wingtip

Kenwood Model 500, a.k.a. Kenwood Supreme: all-JFET phono stage, dual-mono amplifier configuration, and potent headphone output.
  
 Lovely little piece of gear.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice, Wingtip!


----------



## SirMarc

wingtip said:


> Kenwood Model 500, a.k.a. Kenwood Supreme: all-JFET phono stage, dual-mono amplifier configuration, and potent headphone output.
> 
> Lovely little piece of gear.



Nice!


----------



## OldRoadToad

.


----------



## vapman

Ridiculous speaker setup: running a 255W amp into these, built-in cable and PCB ripped out, rewired with thick speaker wire? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 much better than it has any right to be with a nice vintage receiver... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 
 and tons louder!!!


----------



## Monsterzero

vapman said:


> Ridiculous speaker setup: running a 255W amp into these, built-in cable and PCB ripped out, rewired with thick speaker wire?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha that sounds like something I would do.....waiting for your next post that details how the speakers caught fire and exploded 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Seriously though,let us know how they sound im looking for a new pair of desktop speakers,the ones I have are kinda crap.


----------



## vapman

monsterzero said:


> haha that sounds like something I would do.....waiting for your next post that details how the speakers caught fire and exploded :basshead:
> 
> 
> Seriously though,let us know how they sound im looking for a new pair of desktop speakers,the ones I have are kinda crap.





Apple G3 imac speakers are just okay. They are kind of like Avantone Mixcubes. Midrange is great but highs are a little sharp and bass is not really there.

The Z200 speakers do a surprisingly good job. they have one active and one passive driver in each speaker. I also bought them refurbished for $15. I ripped out the PCB on the speaker with the DC input and volume knob with brute force. However even though the iMac speakers are cute and look good, the Z200's are most certainly listenable and enjoyable.


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> haha that sounds like something I would do.....waiting for your next post that details how the speakers caught fire and exploded
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I actually run an Altec Lansing 2.1 system (6" sub) off my 80 wpc Pioneer SA-8800 via a Schoche line out adapter (converts speaker wire connections to RCA output) and they sound phenomenal on my office work system.  Also have same setup in my home office running off my Kenwood KA-5700 (40 wpc) feeding a 2.1 Logitech system with an 8" sub.


----------



## SX3900

Why do that when you can hook up a vintage set of Advent mini's or baby II's plus the mini subwoofer system with that receiver.
 I have the SX-3800 running the bookshelf new vision 250 off the "A" speaker output, while the "B" speaker output is running the computer's Advent mini's and subwoofer system. The mini have 5" woofer cones while the subwoofer box has dual 6.5" woofers.


----------



## SX3900

Advent Mini Specs:
 Mini Advent, Indoor/Outdoor Mini
 MSRP=$230/pair 1992 Pricing
 Model: A1004/A1085 (Outdoor)
 Frequency Response=110Hz to 21kHz +/-3dB
 Impedance=6to8 ohms
 Recommended Amplifier Power=10-40 Watts
 Sensitivity (2.83 volts @1 meter)=88dB
 Crossover Frequency=4.5kHz
 Resonance=85Hz +/-5Hz
 Harmonic Distortion= <1.5% above 200Hz @ 1 Watt
 Tweeter Dispersion (Variance 30° V or H to 13kHz)= <+/-1dB
 Tweeter=1/2” polycarbonate ferrofluid filled hard dome
 Woofer=5-1/4” high extrusion aluminum coil form
 Cabinet Size (HxWxD)=11” x 6-1/2” x 5-1/2”
 Weight=10 lbs./ea
 Finish=Mini Advent: Solid pecan top and base, Indoor/Outdoor: black or white top and base.
  
 Or try the baby's:
 Baby II/Baby III
 MSRP=$270/pair 1992 Pricing
 Model: A1075 III, A1058 Black II
 Frequency Response=60Hz to 21kHz +/-3dB
 Impedance=6to8 ohms
 Recommended Amplifier Power=10-50 Watts
 Sensitivity (2.83 volts @1 meter)=89dB
 Crossover Frequency=4.5kHz
 Resonance=79Hz +/-5Hz
 Harmonic Distortion= <1.5% above 100Hz @ 1 Watt
 Tweeter Dispersion (Variance 30° V or H to 13kHz)= <+/-1dB
 Tweeter=1/2” polycarbonate ferrofluid filled hard dome
 Woofer=6-1/2” high extrusion aluminum coil form
 Cabinet Size (HxWxD)=16-1/2”x 11” x 6-3/16”
 Weight=13 lbs./ea
 Finish=Solid hackberry or black oak top and base, black textured vinyl over dense fiberboard
  
  
 Now you can see why these mini's or baby's are better than today's computer speakers.


----------



## vapman

sx3900 said:


> Why do that when you can hook up a vintage set of Advent mini's or baby II's plus the mini subwoofer system with that receiver.
> I have the SX-3800 running the bookshelf new vision 250 off the "A" speaker output, while the "B" speaker output is running the computer's Advent mini's and subwoofer system. The mini have 5" woofer cones while the subwoofer box has dual 6.5" woofers.


 

 Are the indoor/outdoor Advent minis the same? When buying a turntable a couple months back, the seller gave me 4 outdoor Advent minis for free with it. They've been sitting around unused.... forgot I had them actually.... when my new speaker wire gets in maybe i'll hook em up and see how they do.
  

  
  
 Still though my recabled Z200's are way better than they should be.
  
 I also have some of these I was going to try out when my new speaker cable gets here. Planning to just wire the drivers up as I did on the Z200, although I can use the reflex hole to run a wire in.


----------



## Oregonian

sx3900 said:


> Why do that when you can hook up a vintage set of Advent mini's or baby II's plus the mini subwoofer system with that receiver.
> I have the SX-3800 running the bookshelf new vision 250 off the "A" speaker output, while the "B" speaker output is running the computer's Advent mini's and subwoofer system. The mini have 5" woofer cones while the subwoofer box has dual 6.5" woofers.




I use the computer speakers because I had them for a few years now (since before I got into vintage), listen to headphones 99% of the time and have no need at work for more volume (and the Altec Lansing set really does sound excellent for my needs), have plenty of great speaker systems in use (check my profile) and can't benefit from the sound quality I'd get from a great suggestion as you offered. Thanks tho.....


----------



## verde57

anyone here who uses Yamaha C4 preamp with their headphones?


----------



## SX3900

vapman said:


> Are the indoor/outdoor Advent minis the same? When buying a turntable a couple months back, the seller gave me 4 outdoor Advent minis for free with it. They've been sitting around unused.... forgot I had them actually.... when my new speaker wire gets in maybe i'll hook em up and see how they do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes all the mini are the same, just the metal or wood cabinet are the difference. Check out the specs above in my other thread.


----------



## vapman

sx3900 said:


> Yes all the mini are the same, just the metal or wood cabinet are the difference. Check out the specs above in my other thread.


 

 Wow I might have been sitting on some gems, then!
 my new fancy speaker wire shows up tomorrow then i'll hook em up.


----------



## buson160man

sirmarc said:


> I don't know what the output resistance is on the 9090, but it must be pretty high because my lower impedance cans don't sound great out of it, but again my 650's sound excellent and that's all that matters to me.


 
 I do not know the resistor value on my concept 16.5 vintage receiver . The 16.5 sounds simply astounding on my akg 701s but my grado RS1S are just way too efficient to use with my concept unit . I have heard other dedicated headphone amps and none of them can touch the 16.5 with the akg 701s . I have to say the 16.5 just trumps any of my other dedicated headphone amps for driving phones . I have not been listening to my dedicated headphone amps lately the concept the dedicated headphone just has way more authority when driving headphones . I have heard some very powerful dedicated headphone amps but I do not hear the same sense of authority that I hear with the concept 16.5 . It is my superstar amp for driving my akg 701s .


----------



## vapman

Anyone know how to do speaker refoaming or if it's worth it? Found out why the Advent Minis I got were free.... the outer foam ring has fallen off both of the drivers.


----------



## r2muchstuff

vapman said:


> Anyone know how to do speaker refoaming or if it's worth it? Found out why the Advent Minis I got were free.... the outer foam ring has fallen off both of the drivers.


 

 I have refoamed some Boston Acoustics.  Ordered refoam kits from eBay and followed the instructions.
 Also reviewed some online instruction videos while waiting on kits delivery.  Worked out fine.
  
 Not that difficult, just took my time.
  
 I have a couple of subwoofers that I am planning to do soon. 
  
 r2


----------



## vapman

r2muchstuff said:


> I have refoamed some Boston Acoustics.  Ordered refoam kits from eBay and followed the instructions.
> Also reviewed some online instruction videos while waiting on kits delivery.  Worked out fine.
> 
> Not that difficult, just took my time.
> ...




Thank you sir! I'll find out what size i need and order a set or two. Curious to know if these Advents are even better than my Alesis monitor one mk1's.


----------



## SX3900

vapman said:


> Anyone know how to do speaker refoaming or if it's worth it? Found out why the Advent Minis I got were free.... the outer foam ring has fallen off both of the drivers.


 

 Try ebay for the CORRECT Advent refoam surround kits or look up the old fashion way in the yellow pages for speaker repair shops. Most shops charge around $25/ea per woofer for foam surround repair.


----------



## SX3900

BTW I am using two outdoor black mini's for the rear center surround and the mirage (baby II's look a likes) as my rear left/right surround of the home theater speakers. They too need refoam. All of these use 5-1/4" woofers, here in Dallas the speaker repair shop charges $20/ea woofer for the foam surround repair. So I mail the woofers to him and about a week later they ship the woofers back to me. This speaker repair shop has been in service since the 50's, mainly repair commercial speakers like dance club "disco" speakers, band equipment speakers. A nice mom and pop shop.
 Good luck with the mini's repair.


----------



## vapman

sx3900 said:


> BTW I am using two outdoor black mini's for the rear center surround and the mirage (baby II's look a likes) as my rear left/right surround of the home theater speakers. They too need refoam. All of these use 5-1/4" woofers, here in Dallas the speaker repair shop charges $20/ea woofer for the foam surround repair. So I mail the woofers to him and about a week later they ship the woofers back to me. This speaker repair shop has been in service since the 50's, mainly repair commercial speakers like dance club "disco" speakers, band equipment speakers. A nice mom and pop shop.
> Good luck with the mini's repair.




Thanks a ton for the help & inspiration 3900! If the "real deal" kits are not too much I'll grab a set and do the work myself


----------



## SX3900

try this site for foam replacement kits. At least you have some pricing. So shop around.................
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/advent-speaker-foam-edge-repair-kit-fsk-5.25.html


----------



## Monsterzero

Has anyone tried the speaker taps vs. headphone out on their vintage receivers,and if so what if any difference did you experience?

 Im getting plenty of volume and control from my Sansui headphone out,but if tapping into the speaker out will add anything to some of my harder to drive phones then im interested.

 I stumbled across this product while researching HE-6 amping requirements,and it seems quite interesting.Would this help in driving an HE-6,or would it be reduce the speaker taps to what the headphone out already is on my sansui?

 A couple members have tried the product to varying degrees of success.

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/656847/vinyl-flats-can-opener-any-info

 Mainly looking for thoughts,pros and cons besides the obvious lack of volume control wiggle-room.


----------



## vapman

My Technics SU v76 is going down for major repair. Here are the plans thus far.
  

Goldpoint volume know
Nice wire (idk what to use yet) to rewire the whole damn thing.
Bypass as many pots as possible.
Replace transformer if it shows sings of aging.
Recap all caps even though that'll undoubtedly change the sound.
  
 My goal is to make it sound much "faster" like a modern amp.
  
  
 Is it possible to swap omamps on these older Techics? Do they even make use of omamps?
 Is there anywhere in the design i can replace with an opamp or don't bother?


----------



## jnorris

The speaker out terminals can sound dramatically superior to the headphone jack due to the effect of the 220 - 330 ohm resistor (in most cases) in series with it.  Through an appropriate resistor network which will simulate the low output impedance necessary for headphones, while showing a reasonable load to an amp, headphones sound more detailed with a better high end and more controlled low end.  Others have mentioned this also.
  
 I don't know what the circuitry is of the device you showed so I can't speak to it.


----------



## SX3900

monsterzero said:


> Has anyone tried the speaker taps vs. headphone out on their vintage receivers,and if so what if any difference did you experience?
> 
> Im getting plenty of volume and control from my Sansui headphone out,but if tapping into the speaker out will add anything to some of my harder to drive phones then im interested.
> 
> ...


 

 For my HE-400, I am just running off the speaker taps with no resisters. I made a special 4-pin xlr cable making the headphone a "balanced" phone going straight from the speaker taps to the headphone. Start with the Volume at zero, then turn it up a little at a time. You will never look back after that.....


----------



## PhoenixG

vapman said:


> My Technics SU v76 is going down for major repair. Here are the plans thus far.
> 
> 
> Goldpoint volume know
> ...


 
 I'm not sure you'll get the results you're looking for by doing all these mods. It might make more dollars and sense to start with an amp that already sounds like what you want. If you like how the technics looks/ feels/ acts, but want to gut it, then go nuts and enjoy it. If it's cap coupled, then changing the coupling caps might get you most of the way there by itself. Just don't want you to be disappointed man.


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> I'm not sure you'll get the results you're looking for by doing all these mods. It might make more dollars and sense to start with an amp that already sounds like what you want. If you like how the technics looks/ feels/ acts, but want to gut it, then go nuts and enjoy it. If it's cap coupled, then changing the coupling caps might get you most of the way there by itself. Just don't want you to be disappointed man.


 
  
 Agreed!  Not worth that much effort on that unit.  Besides there could be some unintended consequences from bypassing pots (like overdrive a transistor) or rewiring (picking up noise).


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> The speaker out terminals can sound dramatically superior to the headphone jack due to the effect of the 220 - 330 ohm resistor (in most cases) in series with it.  Through an appropriate resistor network which will simulate the low output impedance necessary for headphones, while showing a reasonable load to an amp, headphones sound more detailed with a better high end and more controlled low end.  Others have mentioned this also.
> 
> I don't know what the circuitry is of the device you showed so I can't speak to it.


 
 the maker of the product messaged me this AM and said that product was discontinued in 2015...so much for that.....
  


sx3900 said:


> For my HE-400, I am just running off the speaker taps with no resisters. I made a special 4-pin xlr cable making the headphone a "balanced" phone going straight from the speaker taps to the headphone. Start with the Volume at zero, then turn it up a little at a time. You will never look back after that.....


 
 Thats kinda what i was looking for,something to drive my HE-500s as well as an HE-6(if I ever end up getting one).

 As JNorris mentioned above though,doesnt the receiver need to "read a load" for it to work correctly?

 If a connection to the speaker taps is made w/ zero resistors in the middle can be achieved and one is careful with the volume dial,is there a consumer level product I can get that will help with this?

 I have zero tech skills,and being legally blind its hard for me to work with small wires,soldering etc....not to mention i dont think id ever just cut off the end of a cable without knowing 100% what the hell im doing prior.


----------



## atarione

monsterzero said:


> the maker of the product messaged me this AM and said that product was discontinued in 2015...so much for that.....
> 
> Thats kinda what i was looking for,something to drive my HE-500s as well as an HE-6(if I ever end up getting one).
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I have a Russound TBL-75 that basically does what the can opener thing does... I got mine at a 2nd hand shop for $5 or something...I use it with my Sony TA-N77ES sometimes.. it is pretty good and is small w/ a volume knob so it could (probably) fit on your desk for convenience ... seems like they can be picked up cheaply on the auction site..


----------



## Monsterzero

atarione said:


> I have a Russound TBL-75 that basically does what the can opener thing does... I got mine at a 2nd hand shop for $5 or something...I use it with my Sony TA-N77ES sometimes.. it is pretty good and is small w/ a volume knob so it could (probably) fit on your desk for convenience ... seems like they can be picked up cheaply on the auction site..


 

 does it attach to speaker taps with normal speaker wire and/or banana clips?
 Are there resistors in it? If it does then doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose of driving power hungry headphones?


----------



## atarione

monsterzero said:


> does it attach to speaker taps with normal speaker wire and/or banana clips?
> Are there resistors in it? If it does then doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose of driving power hungry headphones?


 
  
  
 it has spring clips... I know... that kinda sucks ... but I got it for $5    ....  and I probably misunderstood... It does have the resistors .. so maybe it isn't what you want I guess... I use it w/ my 250Ohms DT880's it does with those..but they aren't super power hungry.


----------



## Monsterzero

yeah,my headphone out is driving all my headphones that I currently own to ear splitting levels with 12 o'clock being the absolute highest I can go for K340s and HE-500s...my other headphones generally dont get past 9-10 o'clock before serious damage is being done to my hearing.

 Im more looking for something to get a little extra(if possible) from my HE-500s and HE-6 if i ever did end up finding a proper way to drive them.

 I think the resistors would be better suited for driving like you said easy-ish headphones from taps without them going up in a big ball of blue smoke.


----------



## vapman

Thanks for the advice on the techincs, not gonna go TOO wild on it... But should clean up nicely.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jnorris said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > I actually have mine with 7.5R and 0.5R resistors both are 5W now it's dead quiet.
> ...


 
 Sorry for the late reply yes it's a lot quieter and to my ears i can turn the volume really loud and it is not fatiguing at all and sounds like the soundstage is wider.


----------



## jnorris

May I introduce you to FrankenPhono!
  

  
 My Pioneer SA-8500II started blowing fuses two days after I discovered how good its phono section was.  I was completely unimpressed by the rest of it, though.  After looking at the circuit diagram and the board layout I realized I could transplant the phono board as long as I could provide the requisite +/- 24v supply.  Frankenphono consists of the transformer and bridge rectifier from a Tascam PA-20B, a home-made zener regulator board, the phono board from the SA-8500II, and the chassis of a hollowed out Pioneer SA-6500.
  
 The thing sounds awesome - far better than any of my current preamps including the NAD PP2, Sumo Athena, Parasound PHP-850, Advent 300, and (believe it or not, also not a bad preamp if taken from the tape output) the Optimus SA-155.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice!


----------



## chillaxing

Do any of you know a reputable repair shop in california?  The left channel on my kenwood went out and I don't trust my soldering skills.  I read somewhere that Pacific Stereo is a good place, any others.  
  
 What does it usually cost for a total overhaul?  I'm also trying to decide if I should pick up a newer integrated like a NAD or send the kenwood out for repairs.


----------



## jnorris

Did you check the fuses?  I'd do that first.  If each channel is fused separately, there may have been a momentary spike or short that caused the fuse to pop.  Beyond that, the decision to update is a very personal one.  If you liked the Kenwood, then get it fixed.  Personally, I find the vintage Pioneers, Kenwoods, et.al. somewhat lacking in performance and not worth big repair costs.  Especially if you're listening through headphones with the background hiss and buzz directly in your ears.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> Especially if you're listening through headphones with the background hiss and buzz directly in your ears.


 
  
 I have a built in filter for this problem - its called 60 year old ears.


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> I have a built in filter for this problem - its called 60 year old ears.


 
 Mine are 64 and I still hear the hiss and noise of a poorly designed amp.  Mostly because much of it is comfortably within the range of my hearing.  Of course, using Shure SE535's with their innate ability to highlight the tiniest buzz makes matters worse.  Sometimes if I just want to hear music I listen to my UE900s's.  They have a pronounced upper midrange dip that hides the amp noise.


----------



## OldRoadToad

>


----------



## chillaxing

you old fogies are funny 

I don't use the vintage for headphones anymore, i use it mainly for my desktop speakers.

I'll check the fuses to see if its a easy fix. If its more than that, then i really need to decide if I want to get it fixed or buy a refurbished unit. Both the cambridge or nad i'm looking at goes for around $500. If repairing the kenwood is cheaper than that, then I might get it fixed.


----------



## jnorris

Take a look at the Parasound Zamp v.3.  It's an ultra small 45 watt/channel amp that even has a headphone out.  You can get one for around $300 new.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

Anyone have use a Tube Buffer,is it any good?Thanks!


----------



## jnorris

Frankly, I think it's silly.  You're adding a piece of equipment to purposely color the sound.


----------



## Mr Rick

jnorris said:


> Frankly, I think it's silly.  You're adding a piece of equipment to purposely color the sound.


 
  
 Not silly at all if he gets the sound he wants.


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> Frankly, I think it's silly.  You're adding a piece of equipment to purposely color the sound.


 

 oh...not this again!


----------



## i luvmusic 2

The reason i asked i have a LittleDot MK III that is not being use so i'am thinking of inserting the LD MK III in the TAPE LOOP i don't know if this makes any sense.


----------



## jnorris

i luvmusic 2 said:


> The reason i asked i have a LittleDot MK III that is not being use so i'am thinking of inserting the LD MK III in the TAPE LOOP i don't know if this makes any sense.


 
 I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to do.  If you have a solid-state preamp and want to drive your headphones from the tube LD MkIII, that would make sense.  If you're thinking that you're adding a tube buffer by going from the tape out of your preamp to the input of the LD. then from the output of the LD to the tape in on the preamp, you may be in error.  The output of the LD is probably taken directly from the input and is not actually sent through any tubes.  I'm thinking it's more of a passthrough so that you can send the audio signal to another device like a regular amp for powering speakers.


----------



## vapman

i luvmusic 2 said:


> The reason i asked i have a LittleDot MK III that is not being use so i'am thinking of inserting the LD MK III in the TAPE LOOP i don't know if this makes any sense.


 
 What you are imagining kind of works, and should work in theory. It's not too different from how recording engineers will make proper use of a mixer's effects chain that way. But in mixers it is done that way so you can dial in the plain/effected signal the balance you want.
  
 Tape loop will work for that as long as everything is wired up correct. Otherwise, you might as well just run it directly into another one of the jacks.
  
 I used to have a Little Bear P5-1 tube buffer but gave it away. I would like to try one again some day.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

jnorris said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > The reason i asked i have a LittleDot MK III that is not being use so i'am thinking of inserting the LD MK III in the TAPE LOOP i don't know if this makes any sense.
> ...


 
  The PRE out jack of this LD MKIII is connected to the HEADPHONE out jack so they are both controlled by the volume pot (LD will be inserted between the tape loop of PIONEER SA-7700)Thanks!
  


vapman said:


> i luvmusic 2 said:
> 
> 
> > The reason i asked i have a LittleDot MK III that is not being use so i'am thinking of inserting the LD MK III in the TAPE LOOP i don't know if this makes any sense.
> ...


 
  So now you mentioned it is possible i will be trying it to see if it will make any difference i've been wanting to do this for awhile i even thought about buying a cheap tube buffer to begin with but then i have this LD not being used so i will start from there.TAPE Rec to LD's input,LD's Preamp/headphone out(these two are connected)to TAPE Play is this right?Thanks!


----------



## Monsterzero

So i took the plunge and purchased a new cable for my HE-500s and (hopefully forthcoming)HE-6 to drive them from my speaker taps....

 When the cable arrives I will give my impressions vs. headphone jack of my 881


----------



## i luvmusic 2

It works...............


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> So i took the plunge and purchased a new cable for my HE-500s and (hopefully forthcoming)HE-6 to drive them from my speaker taps....
> 
> When the cable arrives I will give my impressions vs. headphone jack of my 881


 

 Think you're gonna love the sound...............the Sansui have tone and loudness controls?


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> Think you're gonna love the sound...............the Sansui have tone and loudness controls?


 

 yeah,loudness,bass/mids/highs on the receiver,plus i have a stand alone Sansui EQ too.....keep it pretty flat except for some minus in the 250hz range.


----------



## Monsterzero

Question:

 How do you guys _*safely *_clean your headphone jacks/plugs and rca jacks/plugs?

 Ive read that DeOxit works,but then a contact enhancer is needed to remove the Deoxit residue,as it apparently leaves a sharp sound.

 videos I have seen and read that people use either a cotton swab,clean mascara applicator or even the plug/jack themselves.

 I assume I need to unplug everything first....any suggestions on what Ive typed above and how long does one need to wait before using the equipment again?


----------



## atarione

monsterzero said:


> Question:
> 
> How do you guys _*safely *_clean your headphone jacks/plugs and rca jacks/plugs?
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/
  
 I have always just used a 1/4" adapter with the deoxite on it for the headphone jack... I am also in the wait 10 minutes camp of how long to wait... mostly because I am not a patient man.. I have never really had any issues with waiting 10 ...some claim you should wait overnight..... wusses... I say =p


----------



## SpeakerBox

atarione said:


> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/
> 
> I have always just used a 1/4" adapter with the deoxite on it for the headphone jack... I am also in the wait 10 minutes camp of how long to wait... mostly because I am not a patient man.. I have never really had any issues with waiting 10 ...some claim you should wait overnight..... wusses... I say =p


 
  
 Same here - never a problem.  HD600s are as smooth sounding as ever.


----------



## Monsterzero

atarione said:


> http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-idiots-guide-to-using-deoxit-revisited.207005/
> 
> I have always just used a 1/4" adapter with the deoxite on it for the headphone jack... I am also in the wait 10 minutes camp of how long to wait... mostly because I am not a patient man.. I have never really had any issues with waiting 10 ...some claim you should wait overnight..... wusses... I say =p


 

 yes I have read "overnight" as well...thanks for the response.

 If anyone has any horror stories to relate please share them as im about to clean my system within the next 48 hours


----------



## PhoenixG

Deoxit is basically magic in a can. There's no 'harsh' tone from it. If deoxit comes out and leaves a harsh tone, then that's probably what your gear sounded like under the static haha. 10 minutes is plenty only for very surgical application, overnight is safe for beginners and general use. Most problems come from not everything going back together right, things getting left where they shouldn't, etc. If you're careful and methodical, you'll be just fine.


----------



## atarione

don't get the Deoxit on the tuner section or your tuner will basically be ****ed btw..   try not to get it on the face-plate ..  take the knobs off before using it..


----------



## Monsterzero

atarione said:


> don't get the Deoxit on the tuner section or your tuner will basically be ****ed btw..   try not to get it on the face-plate ..  take the knobs off before using it..


 

 im only planning on spraying it on a mascara applier and working it in and out a few times,both headphone jack and rca inputs...unless that is a no-no,which is why im asking,never used this stuff before.

 My headphones have all been sounding "off" lately so i re-routed my system to see if my EQ was messing up..it did fix the problem,so then i re-wired my EQ back in and the problem remained solved,which leads me to believe I have some dirty connections "somewhere" in the chain...and TBH my headphone jack is looking pretty grimey.


----------



## atarione

yeah.. that should be good..
  
 however with a vintage receiver dirty vol,  balance..etc pots can mess up the sound pretty good also..   but try cleaning the rca and headphone jack and see how that goes.


----------



## vapman

I had, at one point, bought a goldpoint to replace the unrepairably noisy volume pot in my father's NAD receiver he had bought new in Europe. I was shocked at how much better it sounded immediately. I then learned how much difference the volume pot actually makes. I have a Technics SU-V76 I want to goldpoint and redo the wiring completely in.


----------



## Monsterzero

Well I managed to clean my system w/o blowing anything up,and yes it did make a significant difference!

 Now another question about Deoxit.

 Can it/should it be used for headphone connectors...namely HE-500?And if so whats the best method to use to apply it as the inter-connects are so small and fragile.


----------



## Snoochers

I have an Onkyo TX-NR636 home theatre receiver, which seems to have an output impedance of 32 ohms and 2.4 volts. I believe the HD 650s need about 2.2 volts based on a Reddit post I saw. Would my Onkyo receiver be good enough to push the HD 650s?


----------



## OldRoadToad

snoochers said:


> I have an Onkyo TX-NR636 home theatre receiver, which seems to have an output impedance of 32 ohms and 2.4 volts. I believe the HD 650s need about 2.2 volts based on a Reddit post I saw. Would my Onkyo receiver be good enough to push the HD 650s?


 
  
  
 In all honesty I have always just plugged any of my 'phones right into the jack on any receiver I have every owned and....listened to music.   I have never had a problem.  If something is so esoteric that it has a way out of the norm pre-requisite then perhaps it is too weird for me.  I just had my hearing tested last week and all was great!  Of course I never listen at ridiculous levels but my choice in headphones has never been (too) ridiculous.  I buy what I can afford and what appeals to me visually as well as aurally.
  
 All the best!
  
 ORT


----------



## vapman

snoochers said:


> I have an Onkyo TX-NR636 home theatre receiver, which seems to have an output impedance of 32 ohms and 2.4 volts. I believe the HD 650s need about 2.2 volts based on a Reddit post I saw. Would my Onkyo receiver be good enough to push the HD 650s?


 
 HD650 are not that hard to drive, something with a fraction of the power on the NR636 could do it. But it's not like your 650's won't work. they are one of the most popular headphones ever, hands down, no questions asked, which means they've been run with success off just about any source you can imagine. BTW your reddit guy should be talking about WATTS, not volts. so I would take the reddit comments with a few grains of salt


----------



## OldRoadToad

​This what mine looks like, except I need to replace the lamps at the top.  Two (count 'em!), two(!) phono inputs and two tape inputs.  I really like this receiver.  It drives every 'phone I currently have with out a problem.
  
 I am forever looking for Marantz and Sansui receivers.  My older brother had a Sansui that I would like to replace for him. 
  
  
 ORT


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice Sony!


----------



## PhoenixG

oldroadtoad said:


> ​This what mine looks like, except I need to replace the lamps at the top.  Two (count 'em!), two(!) phono inputs and two tape inputs.  I really like this receiver.  It drives every 'phone I currently have with out a problem.
> 
> I am forever looking for Marantz and Sansui receivers.  My older brother had a Sansui that I would like to replace for him.
> 
> ...


 
 That's one of the highly regarded sony ES models. Many people find that to be end game or very close to it. Nice job starting near the end of the road!!
 Among other things, I have a small fleet of similarly aged sony str-6120's and a 6200F that I think sound every inch as good as substantially pricier gear.


----------



## OldRoadToad

speakerbox said:


> Very nice Sony!


 
  
  


phoenixg said:


> That's one of the highly regarded sony ES models. Many people find that to be end game or very close to it. Nice job starting near the end of the road!!
> Among other things, I have a small fleet of similarly aged sony str-6120's and a 6200F that I think sound every inch as good as substantially pricier gear.


 

 ​Thank you both!  I truly enjoy this beauty. 
  
 ORT


----------



## PhoenixG

Happy new years to all! As a little gift to myself, I got one of the HD6XX (HD650) headphones that they had on massdrop. Initially, I'd say they sound fantastic down to about 100 Hz, then have a decent roll-off. The lack of super deep bass isn't a minus, as it doesn't over compensate with pseudo bass, and I am used to feeling the deep bass in my kidneys vice my ears. There is no mid-bass hump to detract from the sound and it's hyper smooth everywhere it should be. I think they're comfortable and nicely voiced (and very accurate!).
  
 I mostly use headphones for system diagnostics, so having an accurate pair of headphones is crucial to tell when something isn't working perfectly. After plugging them into my sansui G-33000, I realized that I really need to check one of my input circuits, and clean a few moving components later in the signal path. I'm overall very happy with my purchase and love how these headphones sound on my equipment!


----------



## SpeakerBox

phoenixg said:


> Happy new years to all! As a little gift to myself, I got one of the HD6XX (HD650) headphones that they had on massdrop. Initially, I'd say they sound fantastic down to about 100 Hz, then have a decent roll-off. The lack of super deep bass isn't a minus, as it doesn't over compensate with pseudo bass, and I am used to feeling the deep bass in my kidneys vice my ears. There is no mid-bass hump to detract from the sound and it's hyper smooth everywhere it should be. I think they're comfortable and nicely voiced (and very accurate!).
> 
> I mostly use headphones for system diagnostics, so having an accurate pair of headphones is crucial to tell when something isn't working perfectly. After plugging them into my sansui G-33000, I realized that I really need to check one of my input circuits, and clean a few moving components later in the signal path. I'm overall very happy with my purchase and love how these headphones sound on my equipment!


 
  
 Congrats PhoenixG.  I got the HD600s back a couple of months ago and love them on my SX1250.  Found them to sound better there than anywhere else.  I believe the power helps.


----------



## OldRoadToad

phoenixg said:


> That's one of the highly regarded sony ES models. Many people find that to be end game or very close to it. Nice job starting near the end of the road!!
> Among other things, I have a small fleet of similarly aged sony str-6120's and a 6200F that I think sound every inch as good as substantially pricier gear.


 

 Again, thank you for the kind words.  We have a local stereo shop that is buying up classic receivers but not for  the purpose of re-selling them.  It looks like they just want to feature them in their store.  When I asked "How much?",  I was politely told "None of them are for sale."
  
 Their choice, but I would much rather use a gorgeous piece of equipment but I can see how just looking at some thing with such classic style is a pleasure unto it self.
  
 ORT


----------



## Oregonian

Had to get some work done on my SA-8800 since one channel was playing quiet a bit lower than the other so saw this for sale and snapped it up..................added another Pioneer to the fleet.  It's a SA-608 amp with the fluoroscan display - 45 wpc.  Sounds great in my family room setup (iPhone 4 feeding a NuForce iDo DAC into this feeding my modded HE-400's).


----------



## vapman

oregonian said:


> Had to get some work done on my SA-8800 since one channel was playing quiet a bit lower than the other so saw this for sale and snapped it up..................added another Pioneer to the fleet.  It's a SA-608 amp with the fluoroscan display - 45 wpc.  Sounds great in my family room setup (iPhone 4 feeding a NuForce iDo DAC into this feeding my modded HE-400's).


 
 Cool, so now you can send me the Pioneers that don't get as much use. Don't worry, I'll treat it well...


----------



## r2muchstuff

​Suggestion - feed the iDo coax to a Modi Multibit 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

phoenixg said:


> Happy new years to all! As a little gift to myself, I got one of the HD6XX (HD650) headphones that they had on massdrop. Initially, I'd say they sound fantastic down to about 100 Hz, then have a decent roll-off. The lack of super deep bass isn't a minus, as it doesn't over compensate with pseudo bass, and I am used to feeling the deep bass in my kidneys vice my ears. There is no mid-bass hump to detract from the sound and it's hyper smooth everywhere it should be. I think they're comfortable and nicely voiced (and very accurate!).
> 
> I mostly use headphones for system diagnostics, so having an accurate pair of headphones is crucial to tell when something isn't working perfectly. After plugging them into my sansui G-33000, I realized that I really need to check one of my input circuits, and clean a few moving components later in the signal path. I'm overall very happy with my purchase and love how these headphones sound on my equipment!



Glad you like them. All my headphone amps are collecting dust since plugging my 650's into my 9090. Its a match made in heaven, especially with vinyl.


----------



## OldRoadToad

oregonian said:


> Had to get some work done on my SA-8800 since one channel was playing quiet a bit lower than the other so saw this for sale and snapped it up..................added another Pioneer to the fleet.  It's a SA-608 amp with the fluoroscan display - 45 wpc.  Sounds great in my family room setup (iPhone 4 feeding a NuForce iDo DAC into this feeding my modded HE-400's).


 
 Beautiful.  What a gorgeous piece of equipment!  Well chosen, my friend!
  
 ORT


----------



## 147JK

Have restored several Marantz and Sansui receivers.  I currently use a Sansui 2000X as my "speaker amp".  People say it sounds like a tube amp, but I can't say because I've never heard a tube amp.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  At any rate, all that was available back then was analog and these designers knew what they were doing.  Once they have been properly restored (which by the way is both easy and fun), they are a very nice compliment to the best digital source equipment out today.


----------



## Monsterzero

147jk said:


> Have restored several Marantz and Sansui receivers.  I currently use a Sansui 2000X as my "speaker amp".  People say it sounds like a tube amp, but I can't say because I've never heard a tube amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a 5000a and a Marantz 2226b hitting the shop this weekend...I will a/b vs. my 881 and see if theres any difference.

 Looks like you cleaned her up nice!


----------



## SpeakerBox

That is a real beauty.  Congratulations 147JK!


----------



## Oregonian

147jk said:


> Have restored several Marantz and Sansui receivers.  I currently use a Sansui 2000X as my "speaker amp".  People say it sounds like a tube amp, but I can't say because I've never heard a tube amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Gorgeous!  I've been tempted to try a Sansui..............


----------



## Oregonian

r2muchstuff said:


> ​Suggestion - feed the iDo coax to a Modi Multibit
> 
> YMMV,
> r2


 

 Does that make it a dual DAC or am I missing something?


----------



## r2muchstuff

oregonian said:


> Does that make it a dual DAC or am I missing something?


 

 No the iDo sends a digital signal to the Modi MB just like the CLAS, PURE, Cambridge D100 and many others. The iPod & iDO serve as a transport to the Modi MB.  I find the Line out of the iDo to not sound as good as the coax out into a different DAC, almost any other DAC, 
  
 JM2C & YMMV,
 r2


----------



## ColtMrFire

Hey all.  What's the general consensus on the best brand vintage receivers for the HD800?  Thinking about Sansui.


----------



## PhoenixG

coltmrfire said:


> Hey all.  What's the general consensus on the best brand vintage receivers for the HD800?  Thinking about Sansui.


 
 What's your budget? Do you have a space constraint? What kind of sources do you intend to use?
  
 Many brands had wildly different sounds between model lines, or peaks and valleys in quality. Some models are quieter than others or have different options that you may have need of. If you don't like listening to the radio at all, that might lend itself to a different set of products as well. There are probably 50 different units that people in this forum really like and are completely comfortable recommending, but the differences come down to preference, budget, needs, and use.


----------



## ColtMrFire

phoenixg said:


> What's your budget? Do you have a space constraint? What kind of sources do you intend to use?
> 
> Many brands had wildly different sounds between model lines, or peaks and valleys in quality. Some models are quieter than others or have different options that you may have need of. If you don't like listening to the radio at all, that might lend itself to a different set of products as well. There are probably 50 different units that people in this forum really like and are completely comfortable recommending, but the differences come down to preference, budget, needs, and use.


 
  
 Hi.  Budget is around $200.  No space constraint.  Source is CD player feeding Schiit Modi Multibit (very smooth, analog sounding R2R DAC).  Don't care about the radio.
  
 I was using a Schiit Jotunheim for my HD800 but it has some treble glare I wasn't happy with.  So I am looking for something maybe in the warm side of neutral, but with plenty of clarity and slam.  
  
 I have an old Onkyo receiver I believe is from the 90s, and it does a really good job, but has a "dead" sound I don't particularly like.  It's hard to describe, it just doesn't have any "life" to it, even though technically it is very good (plenty of spaciousness for the HD800 soundstage, slam, nice amount of detail, etc), it is just lacking a sense of liveliness... could it be needing repair or updated parts?


----------



## SpeakerBox

coltmrfire said:


> Hi.  Budget is around $200.  No space constraint.  Source is CD player feeding Schiit Modi Multibit (very smooth, analog sounding R2R DAC).  Don't care about the radio.
> 
> I was using a Schiit Jotunheim for my HD800 but it has some treble glare I wasn't happy with.  So I am looking for something maybe in the warm side of neutral, but with plenty of clarity and slam.
> 
> I have an old Onkyo receiver I believe is from the 90s, and it does a really good job, but has a "dead" sound I don't particularly like.  It's hard to describe, it just doesn't have any "life" to it, even though technically it is very good (plenty of spaciousness for the HD800 soundstage, slam, nice amount of detail, etc), it is just lacking a sense of liveliness... could it be needing repair or updated parts?


 
  
 Vintage Pioneer gear sounds real good with my HD600.  You may want to look into one from the xx50 or xx80 lines for your HD800.


----------



## Monsterzero

Marantz in the 70s was considered to be the warmest of the Big 3...which I would assume would be best for an HD800,but as always YMMV.


----------



## ColtMrFire

monsterzero said:


> Marantz in the 70s was considered to be the warmest of the Big 3...which I would assume would be best for an HD800,but as always YMMV.


 
  
 I see.  I don't necessarily want a warm sound if it smothers detail though.  Just something that's not bright and edgy (which the HD800 hates).


----------



## Monsterzero

Pioneer had an "etched glass" sound signature,from what Ive read,but Ive never owned one so take that with a grain of salt.

 My Sansuis arent quite as warm as my Marantz,but its not a night/day difference...more like subtle differences.


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> Pioneer had an "etched glass" sound signature,from what Ive read,but Ive never owned one so take that with a grain of salt.
> 
> My Sansuis arent quite as warm as my Marantz,but its not a night/day difference...more like subtle differences.


 
  
 My SX1250 is slightly warm on the HD600.  Lots of detail.


----------



## r2muchstuff

coltmrfire said:


> Hey all.  What's the general consensus on the best brand vintage receivers for the HD800?  Thinking about Sansui.


 
  
 I have multiple vintage Brands, however other than a Sony or two and a Sansui my recent/most experience is with the Pioneer line.
 If you do not want a tuner (FM) then an Integrated Amp will cost less than an equal specked Receiver.
 The SA x800 line is the last of the 1970 products and thus has the best advertised specs.  The SA x500II line is not far behind.  Build quality was really good here also.  
 Older lines are warmer still and may lack as much detail.  Lower end models are also more variable.  I do really like the SA 8500 (not the II, yet the 8500II is also good).
 I currently run headphones from SA 9800, SX 1250, Spec 1/4 combo, Spec 3/M73 combo and a Sony 2000F/3200F pair.. My go to Vintage is the SA 9800 and Beyer T90 or T1 v2.
  
 I find the SA 9800 to have a warm and detailed sound, not as detailed as a new Schiit Amp but close.  The headphone out is via resistors at 150 ohms for most of these.  Low impedance phones get too bass rich for me.  Beyerdynamic 250 or greater Ohm phones work real well here.  My Senheiser HD 650 is hit or miss as the bass can get in the way.  I do not have the HD 800 but if they are more like Beyer they may be a good fit.
  
  


coltmrfire said:


> I see.  I don't necessarily want a warm sound if it smothers detail though.  Just something that's not bright and edgy (which the HD800 hates).


 
 This is what happens with the SA 9800 and the Beyer T1 v2 and T90.
  


monsterzero said:


> Marantz in the 70s was considered to be the warmest of the Big 3...which I would assume would be best for an HD800,but as always YMMV.


 
 I found Marantz very rich and warm but lacking some detail that the Pioneer / Sansui have.
  


monsterzero said:


> Pioneer had an "etched glass" sound signature,from what Ive read,but Ive never owned one so take that with a grain of salt.
> 
> My Sansuis arent quite as warm as my Marantz,but its not a night/day difference...more like subtle differences.


 
  Pioneer "etched glass" = not my experience.
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> My SX1250 is slightly warm on the HD600.  Lots of detail.


 
 True for me with (HD650) the SX 1250, 1050, 950 & 850 and the SX 1280, 1080, 980.  Lower models begin to be more variable.
  
 JMTC & YMMV and I use my 63 year old ears so ....
  
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> The headphone out is via resistors at 150 ohms for most of these.  *Low impedance phones get too bass rich for me*.  Beyerdynamic 250 or greater Ohm phones work real well here.  My Senheiser HD 650 is hit or miss as the bass can get in the way.  I do not have the HD 800 but if they are more like Beyer they may be a good fit.
> 
> 
> 
> r2


 
 +1
 Though it does work with my AD2000s


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> +1
> Though it does work with my AD2000s


 

 Yes some phones just surprise, and do not do what is expected 
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

The Oppo PM 3 keeps surprising me 
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

My HD650's sound fantastic with my Sansui 9090. Not bass heavy at all, with tons of soundstage width and deapth and good detail


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> My HD650's sound fantastic with my Sansui 9090. Not bass heavy at all, with tons of soundstage width and deapth and good detail


 
 They should,being 300ohm...the headphones r2 and I are talking about are low ohm dynamics...doesnt have the same effect on planars though...

 Speaking of which i just got one of the last remaining BNIB HE6s on the planet...waiting for a speaker tap cable then my Sansui should do pretty good driving them with 60 wpc @ 8ohms


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> They should,being 300ohm...the headphones r2 and I are talking about are low ohm dynamics...doesnt have the same effect on planars though...
> 
> 
> Speaking of which i just got one of the last remaining BNIB HE6s on the planet...waiting for a speaker tap cable then my Sansui should do pretty good driving them with 60 wpc @ 8ohms



Nice! Was posting more for the guy asking about the HD800's though lol


----------



## OldRoadToad

coltmrfire said:


> Hey all.  What's the general consensus on the best brand vintage receivers for the HD800?  Thinking about Sansui.


 

 ​I prefer a classic receiver from the 70s.  Marantz, Sansui, Pioneer and Sony to name but four marques.  I would think the 'phone output on any would be robust enough to drive those headphones.  Why?  As I recall, there were no headphone amps back then.  The jack on the front of your receiver was what you had and what you used and none of mine ever failed me.  Never.  My Sony is well over 40 years old now and the headphone output is excellent. I use mine for vinyl, CD and with a Grace Encore in one of tape inputs, internet radio, including Pandora One and SiriusXM.
  
 I would look for a receiver that has features you desire and looks to match your preference(s).  Looks are important.  Let no one tell you other wise.  They are the first thing we notice about any thing or any one. 
  
 Enjoy the search, buying one and finally, listening to your music.
  
 ORT
  
 Edit because I can not spell.  It is a toadish thing...


----------



## jnorris

Unfortunately, people with low impedance headphones are not getting anywhere near the best sound.  The high-value resistors that all past and present amplifiers use, 150 to 330 ohms, negatively impacts sound quality significantly.  I didn't want to believe it, since the headphone jack is so convenient, but after listening through a simple resistor divider off the speaker taps I was totally blown away by the difference.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jnorris said:


> Unfortunately, people with low impedance headphones are not getting anywhere near the best sound.  The high-value resistors that all past and present amplifiers use, 150 to 330 ohms, negatively impacts sound quality significantly.  I didn't want to believe it, since the headphone jack is so convenient, but after listening through a simple resistor divider off the speaker taps I was totally blown away by the difference.


 
  
 What would one need to run the HD800 off speaker taps, and is there a benefit to doing so?


----------



## Mr Rick

coltmrfire said:


> What would one need to run the HD800 off speaker taps, and is there a benefit to doing so?


 
  
 You could run the HD800 directly off the speaker taps. People do, if they think it sounds better that way.


----------



## Monsterzero

coltmrfire said:


> What would one need to run the HD800 off speaker taps, and is there a benefit to doing so?


 
 No...it has a sensitivity of 102 and its 300ohms...headphone jack will work no problem out of a good receiver.


----------



## Monsterzero

mr rick said:


> You could run the HD800 directly off the speaker taps. People do, if they think it sounds better that way.


 
 Really?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 they must have like zero wiggleroom going from silent to explosion


----------



## jnorris

Check out these links:
  
 Rob Robinette's page
https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm
  
  
 ...and from our own forum...
http://www.head-fi.org/t/421644/using-speaker-outputs-to-drive-headphones-and-what-awesome-results
  
 Most of the headphones I've tested were low impedance, 50 ohms or less, and showed marked improvement from the speaker outs through the adapter.  I actually compared the frequency response of the amp from the speaker outs with the headphones, and from the headphone out with the headphones plugged in and the results were pretty amazing.  Almost flat for the speaker outs and variations of up to 8db for the headphone jack.


----------



## Monsterzero

jnorris said:


> Check out these links:
> 
> Rob Robinette's page
> https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm
> ...


 
 Does the adapter have a resistor in it,or is it direct,full contact with the taps?

 It would seem to me like I said above,you would have very little room to play with,volume wise before you blew your ears out


----------



## Seamaster

monsterzero said:


> Does the adapter have a resistor in it,or is it direct,full contact with the taps?
> 
> It would seem to me like I said above,you would have very little room to play with,volume wise before you blew your ears out


 

 Yes it does, also, such adapters should have a constant dumpy load with tube amps, otherwise, say good bye to your transformers.


----------



## jnorris

What I use is a 10 ohm and a 1 ohm resistor in series across the + and - speaker terminals.  The headphone output is taken across the 1 ohm resistor.  This way the amp sees a nice 11 ohm load and the headphones are looking back at a 1 ohm load.  Everybody's happy.  Robinette suggests a 6 and 2 ohm series which will work also.  You have plenty of range in the volume control when you do it this way.
  
 I would not suggest putting the headphones directly across the speaker terminals.


----------



## roadcykler

coltmrfire said:


> What would one need to run the HD800 off speaker taps, and is there a benefit to doing so?


 
  
 No.


jnorris said:


> Check out these links:
> 
> Rob Robinette's page
> https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm
> ...


 
 Almost any time you play headphones or speakers louder, people *think* they sound better which leads them to the erroneous belief that more power = better sound. Every audio show I've been to, starts out the speaker demonstrations playing very loud for that all important first impression. If one is consistently listening to speakers and especially headphones at 100 dBs or higher, you'll almost certainly end up with tinnitus and hearing loss, which is cumulative.


----------



## Seamaster

jnorris said:


> Unfortunately, people with low impedance headphones are not getting anywhere near the best sound.  The high-value resistors that all past and present amplifiers use, 150 to 330 ohms, negatively impacts sound quality significantly.  I didn't want to believe it, since the headphone jack is so convenient, but after listening through a simple resistor divider off the speaker taps I was totally blown away by the difference.


 

 I had a McIntosh MA6900, the headphone output resister was as high as 600 Ohms and sounded lifeless, I had my tech replaced it with an 50 Ohm one that helped SQ big time.


----------



## ColtMrFire

jnorris said:


> Most of the headphones I've tested were low impedance, 50 ohms or less


 
  
 So a high impedance headphone like the HD800 would be a bad idea?


----------



## jnorris

I honestly don't know.  I don't have any high impedance headphones to test.


----------



## Monsterzero

coltmrfire said:


> So a high impedance headphone like the HD800 would be a bad idea?


 
 Speaker taps would be a bit overkill for a high sensitivity headphone like the HD800...they dont need a ton of power like the HE6,but they are amp picky....I would look in the HD800 thread to see what the preferred amp(s) are.

 You might have great success using a vintage amp from the headphone jack...the power will be plenty,but the HD800 tends to be sibilant with less than optimal amps/sources.

 I drive my AKG K240 sextetts thru my headphone jack,which are 600 ohms and 90 db,at around 9 o'clock the volume gets head splitting,so in theory the HD800s would be even easier to drive....

 TL,DR dont need speaker taps


----------



## Seamaster

coltmrfire said:


> So a high impedance headphone like the HD800 would be a bad idea?
> 
> 
> one pair of HD800 do not have enough load if you connect them to your tube amp without a dummy load or a pair of speaker, your transformers will go up in smoke in 10 min


----------



## Thenewguy007

mr rick said:


> You could run the HD800 directly off the speaker taps. People do, if they think it sounds better that way.




What are the chances the drivers of the HD800 being blown out from this?

I heard people blowing out their HE-6 doing this.


Just plugging it in to the speaker taps & having the volume at zero, is there any chance of that happening no matter how powerful the amp is?


----------



## Seamaster

thenewguy007 said:


> What are the chances the drivers of the HD800 being blown out from this?
> 
> I heard people blowing out their HE-6 doing this.
> 
> ...




if your amp is SS, nothing. if your amp is tube, will pop smoke in about 5 min give and take, with HD800


----------



## Mr Rick

seamaster said:


> if your amp is SS, nothing. if your amp is tube, will pop smoke in about 5 min give and take, with HD800


 
 i would like to see your evidence for this statement.


----------



## Seamaster

remember A headphone is just an device with a load to the amp, HD 800 don't provide enough load. every headphone tap to amp should have a protective resister, ideally


----------



## Seamaster

mr rick said:


> i would like to see your evidence for this statement.




if you have questions, you can ask the amp designer:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/600110/2359glenn-studio/14580

He is building me an amp adapter for me, i will post it here when it is done


----------



## r2muchstuff

Finishing up the renovations in the upstairs "sitting room" (den).  TV system is mostly setup and now so is my audio


----------



## Oregonian

r2muchstuff said:


> Finishing up the renovations in the upstairs "sitting room" (den).  TV system is mostly setup and now so is my audio


 
 Looks awesome!   What is the component list?


----------



## r2muchstuff

oregonian said:


> Looks awesome!   What is the component list?


 

 Top to bottom:
  
 Pioneer PL 610 - turntable
 Pioneer F 28 - tuner
 Cambridge D100/ iPod Classic - digital transport > coax > Schiit Bifrost Multibit - DAC
 Schiit Vali 2 (6SN7 tube) - headphone amp & Schiit Lyr 2 (Testing tubes) - headphone amp
 Pioneer C 21 - preamp
 Pioneer U 24 - program selector (passive switches)
 Pioneer M 22 - Class A dual mono amp
  
 Apple Airport Express > optical > Bifrost MB
  
 Boston T1000 (or several others, nothing new or expensive) - speakers
 Various headphones, tubes selected for Beyerdynamic T90 & Grado SR 325e
  
 Alternative speaker amp:
 Pioneer M 25 - Class A/B dual mono amp
  
 All sources connected to C 21 which drives the M 22.  Lyr 2 and Vali 2 connected through U 24 from C 21 "REC" out (line out).  C 21 does not have to be "on" ( i.e. passive only) to use headphone amps except with the turntable for which the C 21 serves as phono preamp.  All sources available to all amps.
  
  
 r2


----------



## SpeakerBox

That is one beautiful stack of gear!


----------



## Monsterzero

My HE6 cable arrived today! Brandon(Peterek) hooked me up!I ordered a 3' HiFiMan connector to 4pin mini XLR interconnect,and then and a 7 foot interconnect terminated in speaker wire(no resistor).He included an adapter that I can use for balanced connection too.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 On to the sound of the HE6 via my 881.....

 One word: Wow!

 I was a bit concerned that my 881 wouldnt have the horses to drive these beasts....wrong.I cant get the volume past 10 o'clock before im blowing out my ears.The 881 is providing so much extra juice im now curious to see what my other two receivers can do....they will be back from the shop in ten days.

 I know one member here was wondering if he needed to spend $$$ for a dedicated amp to drive them...the answer is no.Might there be better options out there?Probably,but Im quite satisfied,and bang for the buck, a vintage receiver cannot be beaten. 

 The things I have been missing in music all this time!

 Detail.
 Mids.
 Slam.
 Separation.
 Imaging.

 These are a brand new,un-burned in,stock pair,and I can already say these are the best pair of headphones I have ever heard.

 I do not find them to be sibilant,though theyre def bright,but not in a peaky way.

 I tried all different types of music with them,from classic rock to metal to blues to deep trance and didnt find them to be lacking in any way. 

 TL,DR

 My best headphone journey is finished.


----------



## SX3900

I have been saying that for a while now. Even a 30-watt receiver will sound good. Myself uses the 60-watt, SX3800 more than the 100-watt, SX3900 to drive headphones. All it takes is a little power.
  
 Welcome to the brotherhood of speaker tap listening..........


----------



## northendjazz

I'm looking to add vinyl to my setup, I have a Sansui au 2200 with a phono stage built in but I can't find what sort it is? and yes I feel like a right newbie asking. You can point me to other threads if needed. My budget for the turntable is small (£200) but I need a clue as to what to look for, it would be a place holder for future.


----------



## SpeakerBox

northendjazz said:


> I'm looking to add vinyl to my setup, I have a Sansui au 2200 with a phono stage built in but I can't find what sort it is? and yes I feel like a right newbie asking. You can point me to other threads if needed. My budget for the turntable is small (£200) but I need a clue as to what to look for, it would be a place holder for future.


 
  
 That would probably be for a standard moving magnet cartridge.


----------



## SirMarc

northendjazz said:


> I'm looking to add vinyl to my setup, I have a Sansui au 2200 with a phono stage built in but I can't find what sort it is? and yes I feel like a right newbie asking. You can point me to other threads if needed. My budget for the turntable is small (£200) but I need a clue as to what to look for, it would be a place holder for future.



I'm sure it's moving magnet. When newbies to vinyl ask me my advice on a first turntable I always tell them to track down an 80's Technics P mount table like an sl-qd 22 or 33. They're cheap, built like tanks, won't ruin your albums, and Audio Technica still makes surprisingly decent sounding P mount carts for like 20-30 bucks...

Edit: also forgot to add that they're as close as you'll ever get to a plug and play Turntable. No set up except maybe tweeking the tracking force


----------



## northendjazz

Thanks for the replies, its funny how you can be a newbie at one thing and an old hand at others.


----------



## SirMarc

northendjazz said:


> Thanks for the replies, its funny how you can be a newbie at one thing and an old hand at others.



Yup, my grandmother used to say if you don't learn at least one new thing a day, its not a good day.

I'm guessing you could find a working old Technics and throw a new Audio Technica P mount cart on there for less than a 100 pounds if you look around. That should set you up for a little while. 

I had an SL-QD22 in my attic, and hooked it up to the downstairs system and was pleasantly surprised how nice it sounded with a new cheap AT cart...


----------



## Oregonian

r2muchstuff said:


> No the iDo sends a digital signal to the Modi MB just like the CLAS, PURE, Cambridge D100 and many others. The iPod & iDO serve as a transport to the Modi MB.  I find the Line out of the iDo to not sound as good as the coax out into a different DAC, almost any other DAC,
> 
> JM2C & YMMV,
> r2




Thanks for the recommendation. Got a Modi MB today and I have to say it's an improvement over the iDo...........


----------



## r2muchstuff

oregonian said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Got a Modi MB today and I have to say it's an improvement over the iDo...........


 

 Glad all is good.
  
 I have a variety of iPod digital docks(DACs/amps) and now use them with external multibit DACs and amps.   I am glad they included digital outs.  Most of these are getting some age on them and their chips show it. They are back to being useful again (as in not obsolete: reference to Schiit thread). 
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## Benny-x

oregonian said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. Got a Modi MB today and I have to say it's an improvement over the iDo...........




I'm not bashing, I'm really happy to hear this. I always admired the analogue side of your playback chain; from preamp to headphones. I always thought you'd hear a difference by upgrading your digital stage and that sounds like you've found it too with the modest, by highly regarded Mimby. Congrats, man!

Maybe this year I'll finally step into the fold with a vintage amp or integrated myself. Though lately I'm starting to feel a deep connection with r2muchstuff's name...


----------



## BobG55

Hi, I've been trying to find out information about the *L + R mode *(see attached photo above) on my Supreme 600.  I've tried AudioKarma, all sorts of different words/ terms, associations on Google, all without success.  I downloaded the Owner's Manual and here's what it says about the *L + R mode *:
  
 "*L + R ……….  The left and right channels are mixed together and are heard from both speakers*"
  
 My questions is : is this a "*Mono*" mode or something else ? I always thought Mono was centred and not mixed together at the extremes (L + R).    As some of you who will read this might perceive, I'm not tech savvy but _I do love this amp.  _




  
 Thank you in advance to anyone who might be able and willing to help me out.


----------



## jaywillin

i wondered about this myself, 
 wouldn't true "mono" be be just one signal, played equally between two (or one speaker) 
 whereas a "l+r" mode would take a stereo recording, and give it a mono effect ?


----------



## BobG55

jaywillin said:


> i wondered about this myself,
> wouldn't true "mono" be be just one signal, played equally between two (or one speaker)
> whereas a "l+r" mode would take a stereo recording, and give it a mono effect ?


 

 I had a Kenwood KA-8300 last year and it had a "Mono" mode.  The sound came out of both R & L sides of my headphones but it was centred.  The L + R mode on the Supreme 600 doesn't sound the same if memory serves me right.  Its more of a less detailed stereo sound ... I think.


----------



## r2muchstuff

bobg55 said:


> Hi, I've been trying to find out information about the *L + R mode *(see attached photo above) on my Supreme 600.  I've tried AudioKarma, all sorts of different words/ terms, associations on Google, all without success.  I downloaded the Owner's Manual and here's what it says about the *L + R mode *:
> 
> "*L + R ……….  The left and right channels are mixed together and are heard from both speakers*"
> 
> ...


 
 My Pioneer SC 100 (Pre Amp from 1968) for "Mode" has the following:
  
 Stereo - Rev & Norm
 Mono - L , R and L + R
  
 By 1970 the listing for "Mode" dropped the Mono Labeling, leaving just the Rev, Stereo, L, R,  &  L + R.
  
 My understanding has always been that L + R is a combining of the Stereo signals to create a Mono output to both of the speakers.
  
 This could be used in various ways for level setting/matching as well as in situations where speaker placement prevented a proper stereo set up, such as Large area "parties" or multiple office spaces background "music/noise" etc.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## jaywillin

the evolution of audio processing maybe


----------



## BobG55

r2muchstuff said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, I've been trying to find out information about the *L + R mode *(see attached photo above) on my Supreme 600.  I've tried AudioKarma, all sorts of different words/ terms, associations on Google, all without success.  I downloaded the Owner's Manual and here's what it says about the *L + R mode *:
> ...


 
 That makes sense.  Thank you very much *r2muchstuff.  *Very much appreciated.


----------



## r2muchstuff

The SC 100 also has, in addition to Phono Pre Amp settings, a Tape Head setting for 7 1/2 an 3 3/4 ips.  Just like turntables did not include pre amps, older tape decks did not always include the tape head pre amp.
  
 Audio and processing evolved, not always for the best 
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

So the labeling is a mixed bag into the 1970's.
  
 The 1973 SA 9100 has the "Stereo - Rev, Norm" and "Mono L + R, L, R" labeling yet the 1970 SA 900 only has the "Rev, Stereo,  L, R, L + R" labeling.  By 1974/5 the SA 9900 settled on the "Rev, Stereo,  L, R, L + R" while the Spec 1 maintained the "Stereo - Rev, Norm" and "Mono L + R, L, R"
  
 Receivers for the 1970s appear to only include a "Stereo" / "Mono" toggle switch instead of the fancy switches of the Pre Amps and Intergrated Amps.
  
 r2


----------



## jaywillin

my 2216 has bass and treble, a loudness button and high pass filter, with my modified jvc speakers, just an occasional bass boost, with the minimus 7's, i'll hit the loudness button, headphones, flat


----------



## BobG55

r2muchstuff said:


> So the labeling is a mixed bag into the 1970's.
> 
> The 1973 SA 9100 has the "Stereo - Rev, Norm" and "Mono L + R, L, R" labeling yet the 1970 SA 900 only has the "Rev, Stereo,  L, R, L + R" labeling.  By 1974/5 the SA 9900 settled on the "Rev, Stereo,  L, R, L + R" while the Spec 1 maintained the "Stereo - Rev, Norm" and "Mono L + R, L, R"
> 
> ...


 
  


r2muchstuff said:


> The SC 100 also has, in addition to Phono Pre Amp settings, a Tape Head setting for 7 1/2 an 3 3/4 ips.  Just like turntables did not include pre amps, older tape decks did not always include the tape head pre amp.
> 
> Audio and processing evolved, not always for the best
> 
> r2


 

 Thanks again r2.  Everything I needed to know along with a very interesting and valuable historical background.  What I'm now asking myself is why can't the ones writing the "owner's manual" indicate that L + R means "mono".


----------



## jaywillin

bobg55 said:


> Thanks again r2.  Everything I needed to know along with a very interesting and valuable historical background.  What I'm now asking myself is why can't the ones writing the "owner's manual" indicate that L + R means "mono".


 
 doesn't sound flashy


----------



## BobG55

jaywillin said:


> bobg55 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks again r2.  Everything I needed to know along with a very interesting and valuable historical background.  What I'm now asking myself is why can't the ones writing the "owner's manual" indicate that L + R means "mono".
> ...


 

 As good an answer as any.  Makes sense.


----------



## Skylab

It is worth noting that in vintage receivers, the stereo/mono switch when in Tuner mode would turn the stereo circuit off the Tuner and allow one to hear the broadcast in true mono, which in the case of FM could significantly reduce noise, since the stereo signal of FM broadcasts was multiplexed onto the mono. So it was not, in this case, just a summoning of L+R, when in Tuner mode.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Thanks Skylab, I totally forgot about FM when commenting on Receivers.
  
 r2


----------



## jnorris

Early stereo amps and receivers gave you the mono options of playing the left channel to both speakers, the right channel to both speakers or the combined left and right to both speakers.  They often also gave you the stereo option of reversing the left and right channels.  Whether they called it Mono or not depended on their willingness to be connected with old technology.
  
 Skylab is also correct about the FM tuning in mono mode, but it didn't have to be specific to the tuner.  Since much of the noise on an FM station is out of phase between the left and right channels, mixing them would cancel it out.
  
 And if I may digress back to the turntable discussion.  I'm sorry but it makes me laugh when I see people talking about the superiority of vinyl over digital when they are listening to a low end turntable with a junk cartridge.  That's just not superior to digital in any way, shape or form.  I get a real belly laugh when I see them get excited over finding scratched and warped vinyl records at Goodwill, taking them home and pontificating about analog sound.  If you're not going to invest in a good quality turntable and cartridge combination, with a carefully maintained record collection, then spend the money on CDs instead.  They will sound better.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> And if I may digress back to the turntable discussion.  I'm sorry but it makes me laugh when I see people talking about the superiority of vinyl over digital when they are listening to a low end turntable with a junk cartridge.  That's just not superior to digital in any way, shape or form.  I get a real belly laugh when I see them get excited over finding scratched and warped vinyl records at Goodwill, taking them home and pontificating about analog sound.  If you're not going to invest in a good quality turntable and cartridge combination, with a carefully maintained record collection, then spend the money on CDs instead.  They will sound better.


 
  
 Well, we differ a bit here.  I have always hated CDs.  There is an edge to the sound that really bugs me.  Even through my Sony 999ES or Rotel RCD 855 feeding a PASS B1 buffer, a Rowland M1, and LS3/5A clones they suck out loud IMHO.  On the other hand feeding the B1 and Rowland with a cheap Pioneer PL-516 with a Ortofon Red sounds glorious (and yes even with some GW vinyl, albeit in good shape).  CDs are a flawed format with only 16Bit resolution and the sampling rate of 44KHZ. Even oversampling to deal with the 44KHZ causes issues - so much so that one of the most popular mods for the RCD-855 is to disable oversampling.  You are hosed either way oversampling or not.


----------



## jnorris

speakerbox said:


> Well, we differ a bit here.  I have always hated CDs.  There is an edge to the sound that really bugs me.  Even through my Sony 999ES or Rotel RCD 855 feeding a PASS B1 buffer and a Rowland M1, and LS3/5A clones they suck out loud IMHO.  On the other hand feeding the B1 and Rowland with a cheap Pioneer PL-516 with a Ortofon Red sounds glorious (and yes even with some GW vinyl, albeit in good shape).  CDs are a flawed format with only 16Bit resolution and the sampling rate of 44KHZ.


 
 I'm not so sure we are disagreeing here.  The Pioneer/Ortofon combo you have is significantly ahead of the crap that some people are buying to "re-discover" vinyl.  I'm talking about the people that are using cheap plastic "vintage" JVC, Aiwa, Sherwood, etc., turntables with $30 cartridges.  Or worse, that Ion USB garbage.
  
 I agree that a good turntable, cartridge, preamp combo is far more listenable than CD.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> I'm not so sure we are disagreeing here.  The Pioneer/Ortofon combo you have is significantly ahead of the crap that some people are buying to "re-discover" vinyl.  I'm talking about the people that are using cheap plastic "vintage" JVC, Aiwa, Sherwood, etc., turntables with $30 cartridges.  Or worse, that Ion USB garbage.
> 
> I agree that a good turntable, cartridge, preamp combo is far more listenable than CD.


 
  
 Ok.  I guess we need a glossary of terms to indicate what we each think of as "crap".


----------



## photonic

Keep my Luxman L-210 or should I get something more modern like Schiit?  I have a tube amp but I feel it doesn't have the control that I'm looking for... I have HD6xx's btw.


----------



## Hutnicks

photonic said:


> Keep my Luxman L-210 or should I get something more modern like Schiit?  I have a tube amp but I feel it doesn't have the control that I'm looking for... I have HD6xx's btw.


 

 I think you need to define what you mean by "Control". A lot of the expose here is more about bigger newer is better. What your musical tastes are may well save you thousands if you can define them. elsewise you can spend your mortgage chasing dreams other "audiophiles" define for you.
  
   in some ways I always look at it the same way so called elite cyclists view their sport/hobby. While they scorn those who have not spent 10 grand on a bike, my response is always. Well they are out there riding while you obsessse about not being on the state of the art bike.
  
 It at some point becomes about what it it you enjoy. Chasing the technology or living to listen. The real fools gold of the audio industry was the pure marketing scam of "if you do not conform to the listening standards we progect, you are deffiecient" Much the high school trope of if you are not in the in crowd, you are out. Strangely head fi if you lood into older threads, counters this attitude. Buried though they are there are myriad examples of for cheapsies amps, phones and ancillaries. Lost int the eddies and currents of "If you don';t buy a six grand phone you are not suppporting the industry hype


----------



## photonic

hutnicks said:


> I think you need to define what you mean by "Control". A lot of the expose here is more about bigger newer is better. What your musical tastes are may well save you thousands if you can define them. elsewise you can spend your mortgage chasing dreams other "audiophiles" define for you.
> 
> in some ways I always look at it the same way so called elite cyclists view their sport/hobby. While they scorn those who have not spent 10 grand on a bike, my response is always. Well they are out there riding while you obsessse about not being on the state of the art bike.
> 
> It at some point becomes about what it it you enjoy. Chasing the technology or living to listen. The real fools gold of the audio industry was the pure marketing scam of "if you do not conform to the listening standards we progect, you are deffiecient" Much the high school trope of if you are not in the in crowd, you are out. Strangely head fi if you lood into older threads, counters this attitude. Buried though they are there are myriad examples of for cheapsies amps, phones and ancillaries. Lost int the eddies and currents of "If you don';t buy a six grand phone you are not suppporting the industry hype


 
 Thanks for the reply. I believe I worded it a bit vague earlier, sorry. I suppose I like my tube amps decay and fragility with vocals but when I play something with more sounds at a quick pace, it lacks control and sometimes blends too much. I suppose this means the transients aren't in control? I have more control (and can add slam for modern music with the boost button ) with my Luxman but without the decay and fragility that I can get with tubes. So I'm wondering if anyone had experience with vintage Luxman (early 80's as mine is from that era) to compare to newer headphone amps for their impressions? Has there been any real improvement in solid state? Schiit, from what I understand is a good standard so hearing owners/past owners of both would be helpful.
  
 Edit - removed an extra word.


----------



## Monsterzero

Just my .02

 The HD6xx line isnt known for being the "fastest" headphone out there,in fact I found the 600 to be on the slow-*ish* side.

 The 650 and 6xx w/ the added mid-bass bump slows it down further IMO.

 FWIW I own a Magni Uber 2 and 3 vintage receivers...my MU2 is currently not even hooked up.


----------



## photonic

monsterzero said:


> Just my .02
> 
> 
> The HD6xx line isnt known for being the "fastest" headphone out there,in fact I found the 600 to be on the slow-*ish* side.
> ...


 Thanks, good stuff. Looks like I'll keep the Luxman. I did listen to a few friends' gear but it always came up short.


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> Just my .02
> 
> The 650 and 6xx w/ the added mid-bass bump slows it down further IMO.


 
  
 I am driving my HD600 with my Pioneer SX-1250.  To my ears, with that combination, there is no mid-bass hump.  That receiver is by far the best one I have found for driving those HPs.


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> I am driving my HD600 with my Pioneer SX-1250.  To my ears, with that combination, there is no mid-bass hump.  That receiver is by far the best one I have found for driving those HPs.



Same here with my HD650's and Sansui 9090. Sounds fantastic


----------



## SpeakerBox

sirmarc said:


> Same here with my HD650's and Sansui 9090. Sounds fantastic


 
  
 Wonder if copious amounts of power has something to do with it?


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Wonder if copious amounts of power has something to do with it?



Could be, but they also sound really good with my Kenwood KR-7600 which is only 70 wpc, and surprisingly decent out of an SX-550 which I think is 20 or 25 wpc. Who knows, but I'll take it!


----------



## vapman

sirmarc said:


> Could be, but they also sound really good with my Kenwood KR-7600 which is only 70 wpc, and surprisingly decent out of an SX-550 which I think is 20 or 25 wpc. Who knows, but I'll take it!


 
 considering the best dedicated headphone amps do 4w tops, 20 or 25 is plenty!


----------



## roadcykler

vapman said:


> considering the best dedicated headphone amps do 4w tops, 20 or 25 is plenty!


 
 Plenty enough to ruin some headphones and hearing.


----------



## jnorris

vapman said:


> considering the best dedicated headphone amps do 4w tops, 20 or 25 is plenty!


 
 Hah, and they're poppin' blood vessels to get those 4 watts out - puny little beasties!


----------



## fumblingforward

I decided this is the crowd that can answer this quandary. The vintage gear crowd. I haven't been a practitioner of the headphone arts for long. Made a couple of purchases. A vintage integrated that sounded pretty good, a dedicated headphone amp that sounded great. I actually learned a lot from the used Asgard 2. Detail. The Asgard showed me detail. I bought a vintage NAD 1240 pre, simply for the phono stage. The phono stage in the vintage pioneer integrated was good but I always thought I was missing something and for what the owner of the NAD was asking, considering what a good new stage is going for and how well the stage is referred to on other forums I figured I could get a great phono stage plus the switching of the pre. And I got that. It sounds great. Really great. That's not the question. The headphone out sounds every bit as good as the Asgard's. Maybe a little better. Actually listening right now to Miles Davis Kind of Blue and it's superb. I plugged my phones into it on a lark. Just took a flyer, took them out of the Asgard and plugged them in to the NAD just to see. Wow, to say the least and it appears I'm using less relative gain. I guess....why? When the headphone output impedance listed in the manual is 100 ohm and I think the impedance of the hifiman he400i is something in the neighborhood of 35. Am I understanding impedance matching wrong? I get that the relative gain thing is probably irrelevant just according to how much twist the volume gets on either. Does anyone have any idea why this unit sounds so great. Nothing particularly forward, the entire range seems to be as far as I can tell. Is the literature mistaken or have I read it wrong. Long winded folks and I apologize for that and I suppose I should count my blessings and just enjoy but I'm trying to learn a bit. 
Thanks.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im sure others can give you a more scientific explanation,but planar headphones seem to be a bit impervious to the whole impedance thing,and they do like extra juice for sure.


----------



## fumblingforward

monsterzero said:


> Im sure others can give you a more scientific explanation,but planar headphones seem to be a bit impervious to the whole impedance thing,and they do like extra juice for sure.



I haven't tried my dynamics yet but these sure do sound good out the front of this preamp. I don't want to talk out of school but I also feel like it pushed the sound stage out a bit, maybe. More listening needed.


----------



## OldRoadToad

photonic said:


> Keep my Luxman L-210 or should I get something more modern like Schiit?  I have a tube amp but I feel it doesn't have the control that I'm looking for... I have HD6xx's btw.


 

 Luxman.
  
 If you want some thing by Schiit, by all means buy one of their products but I seriously doubt there will be any improvement and while it will look very nice, it will not be nearly as gorgeous as your Luxman.
  
 So then, if you _want_ a Schiit product that is fine.  But reality is, unless the Luxman is broken you do not _need_ any thing else.
  
 ORT


----------



## SpeakerBox

vapman said:


> considering the best dedicated headphone amps do 4w tops, 20 or 25 is plenty!


 
  
 Yes, they sound good on my 20 WPC HK330A also.  All I know is that using the 600s via my vintage gear I don't hear any of the issues that are mentioned in some of the HD600 threads (i.e. mid-bass, upper mid peaking, and even the bass goes low enough for me).


----------



## SirMarc

speakerbox said:


> Yes, they sound good on my 20 WPC HK330A also.  All I know is that using the 600s via my vintage gear I don't hear any of the issues that are mentioned in some of the HD600 threads (i.e. mid-bass, upper mid peaking, and even the bass goes low enough for me).



My guess is they've only listened to either crappy 70's gear, or they're full of it. With my HD650's, my 9090 wipes the floor in every way with my Asgard 2. Its not even close...


----------



## photonic

oldroadtoad said:


> Luxman.
> 
> If you want some thing by Schiit, by all means buy one of their products but I seriously doubt there will be any improvement and while it will look very nice, it will not be nearly as gorgeous as your Luxman.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you, yes I'm definitely keeping my Luxman. I see all these threads on newer stuff and I just keep thinking is there something I'm missing? I've come to the conclusion that unless it's close to Summit-fi that I'm not.


----------



## Oregonian

photonic said:


> Thank you, yes I'm definitely keeping my Luxman. I see all these threads on newer stuff and I just keep thinking is there something I'm missing? I've come to the conclusion that unless it's close to Summit-fi that I'm not.


 

 I feel in fact it's the "headphone-specific" amp guys that are missing out on a lot.  Tone controls.............loudness circuits.............ample power for things like the HE-6.  All help us enjoy our headphones at a lower cost of entry.  I've said it before - it's like we have this secret society that is open for membership but not everyone has a clue how cool we are!


----------



## Oregonian

So here's an updated picture of my main system (of 8 that are in use) - swapped out my SG-9500 Equalizer for a SG-9800 (mainly for the lighted sliders - honestly it's just a cool factor improvement to me) and added a Schiit Modi Multibit (thanks to r2muchstuff for his recommendation) and got a black faced vintage Pioneer timer for the clock to match the upper group (Pioneer PDR-609 CD player/recorder and the Chase RLC-1 remote/preamp).


----------



## r2muchstuff

Great system!
  
 Yes, the SG 9800 is "cool".  I run one in the bar SX 1250 system.
  
 You just reminded me about the silver faced timers (clocks) I have.  Need to add some "bling" to a system or two 
  
 r2


----------



## SirMarc

oregonian said:


> So here's an updated picture of my main system (of 8 that are in use) - swapped out my SG-9500 Equalizer for a SG-9800 (mainly for the lighted sliders - honestly it's just a cool factor improvement to me) and added a Schiit Modi Multibit (thanks to r2muchstuff for his recommendation) and got a black faced vintage Pioneer timer for the clock to match the upper group (Pioneer PDR-609 CD player/recorder and the Chase RLC-1 remote/preamp).



Looking good man!


----------



## OldRoadToad

Hail and well met!
  
 I am looking at a Sansui 5500.  Any thoughts or experience with one of these beauties?
  
 ORT


----------



## richard51

oldroadtoad said:


> Hail and well met!
> 
> I am looking at a Sansui 5500.  Any thoughts or experience with one of these beauties?
> 
> ORT


 
 I possess the Sansui AU-7700, same period, same series, i know for sure that this is an extraordinary sounding amp (7700) the 5500 is the same years and technology, hence buy it, no modern product can compete with that at this used price... Beware , it will be necessary to pay for a recaps if  the last owner has not pay for this necessary operation... You will have a separation switch for a separate pre-amplification of high quality for example... The headphone out will be of good quality... The 32 watts means nothing, mine is 55 watts and the technician measure it over 80 watts in reality... I drive my 100 watts speakers at maximum 8 hours on the volume pot....I know for sure that, at this price, NOTHING contemporary  can compare...Nor for sound, neither for versatility....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sometimes SS amp sound is dry, these series of Sansui offer a mellow, organic sound better than my last tube amp, by a long margin, and a very detailed sound... ....Buy it and forgot any contemporary amp of one thousand dollars and below, the upgrading ,if it is possible,would be too small...


----------



## SirMarc

oldroadtoad said:


> Hail and well met!
> 
> I am looking at a Sansui 5500.  Any thoughts or experience with one of these beauties?
> 
> ORT



I have a 9090 from around 75 that sounds fantastic. A piece of advice, bring a pair of headphones and a Y cable for your phone with you to see if you like the sound.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Thank you for the replies!   The chance to buy fell apart as the price went up $50 from what was agreed upon and I have no hard feelings for that and thanked the seller all the same.  If they change their mind, I will reconsider as it looks to be a very nice unit.
  
 ORT


----------



## Silent One

Curiously, what tale did the seller share with you about the sudden price increase?


----------



## nuskool

I've posted in the New Members thread but just wanted to advice. I have a Marantz 1050 which I've had for many many years which I use for my headphones. Currently I have a set of Sennheiser HD555s which have done me well for the last few years but as I'm more frequently listening to music on my headphones I've decided to purchase a new pair. I'm currently thinking about DT-770s due to the bass (something I feel very lacking in the HD555s). As the amp is going to be my primary source should I go for the 80 ohm version (as I had planned) or should I really be looking at the 250 ohm?
  
 Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## r2muchstuff

nuskool said:


> I've posted in the New Members thread but just wanted to advice. I have a Marantz 1050 which I've had for many many years which I use for my headphones. Currently I have a set of Sennheiser HD555s which have done me well for the last few years but as I'm more frequently listening to music on my headphones I've decided to purchase a new pair. I'm currently thinking about DT-770s due to the bass (something I feel very lacking in the HD555s). As the amp is going to be my primary source should I go for the 80 ohm version (as I had planned) or should I really be looking at the 250 ohm?
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


 

 For vintage amps I prefer at least 250 - 300 ohms or even 600 ohms.  Unless you need closed type headphones I suggest the DT 990 or a newer Telsa based Beyerdynamic.
  
 I enjoy my Beyerdynamics with vintage Pioneer/Sony/Sansui/Rotel (T1v2, T90, DT 1770, DT 990 & DT 770).  T90 & DT 990 most of all.  Some like Sennheiser HD 600 & HD 650, I perfer the Beyers.
  
 JMHO,
 r2


----------



## SpeakerBox

nuskool said:


> I've decided to purchase a new pair. I'm currently thinking about DT-770s due to the bass (something I feel very lacking in the HD555s).


 
  
 I always thought my 555s were bass heavy, at least with the SX1250.
  
 Mine do have the foam removal mod though.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I know I feel that way about the HD 598 & HD 650.
  
 JMTC,
 r2
  
 Edit:  When connected to headphone out on vintage amps/receivers with in line resistors.


----------



## SpeakerBox

r2muchstuff said:


> I know I feel that way about the HD 598 & HD 650.
> 
> JMTC,
> r2


 
  
 HD600 not so much.


----------



## Oregonian

nuskool said:


> I've posted in the New Members thread but just wanted to advice. I have a Marantz 1050 which I've had for many many years which I use for my headphones. Currently I have a set of Sennheiser HD555s which have done me well for the last few years but as I'm more frequently listening to music on my headphones I've decided to purchase a new pair. I'm currently thinking about DT-770s due to the bass (something I feel very lacking in the HD555s). As the amp is going to be my primary source should I go for the 80 ohm version (as I had planned) or should I really be looking at the 250 ohm?
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


 

 Personally I've experienced great sound with any ohm headphone from vintage gear - from hard to drive HE-6's to Denon LA7000's - so personally wouldn't be too concerned with the ohm question.  By the way, I'd surmise from my Denon experience (daily use of a D2000 from a Pioneer SA-8800 at work) the new EMU's would sound good as well (since they are basically a Fostex/Denon chassis) and having owned the DT770 before I prefer the Denon/Fostex by a fair amount over the Beyers.  Just my personal preference - and full disclosure - I'm a BIG Denon fanboy, having owned two D2000's, two D5000's and my LA7000, along with both the TH600 and TH900.  They all play well with vintage.


----------



## Monsterzero

Hmmm...for me its been a mixed bag when it comes to low impedance HPs thru my gear....

 My ATH AD2000s sound really good,whereas Grados/Alessandros get too much bass bloat and end up sounding muddy and slow.


----------



## nuskool

Thanks for information all.
  
 Quote:


speakerbox said:


> I always thought my 555s were bass heavy, at least with the SX1250.
> 
> Mine do have the foam removal mod though.


 
  
 That worries me a bit - I guess maybe its more sub bass that I'm after then... although I just found this thread so maybe I can pickup some pointers from there: http://www.head-fi.org/t/716711/the-hardest-hitting-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club/


----------



## nuskool

oregonian said:


> Personally I've experienced great sound with any ohm headphone from vintage gear - from hard to drive HE-6's to Denon LA7000's - so personally wouldn't be too concerned with the ohm question.  By the way, I'd surmise from my Denon experience (daily use of a D2000 from a Pioneer SA-8800 at work) the new EMU's would sound good as well (since they are basically a Fostex/Denon chassis) and having owned the DT770 before I prefer the Denon/Fostex by a fair amount over the Beyers.  Just my personal preference - and full disclosure - I'm a BIG Denon fanboy, having owned two D2000's, two D5000's and my LA7000, along with both the TH600 and TH900.  They all play well with vintage.


 
  
 I recognise names/models in most discussion on here but I'm not sure what "EMU"s are - can you give me a bit more information please.
  
 EDIT: Okay, not really difficult to find on Google


----------



## Oregonian

nuskool said:


> That worries me a bit - I guess maybe its more sub bass that I'm after then... although I just found this thread so maybe I can pickup some pointers from there: http://www.head-fi.org/t/716711/the-hardest-hitting-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club/


 

 That thread will surely lead you down the path to EXTREME basshead city - and has a top 10 list that includes the Fostex TH900 that I referenced in position 2.  They are a great resource for heavy bassheads - with that being THE reason for the thread.  Just keep that in mind. 
  
 If you're after sub bass out of vintage.............the HiFiMan HE-6 cannot be beat for visceral bass.  I'd go out on a limb and suggest you try a planar headphone (HE-6, HE-400 and the like) - they perform very well out of vintage power amps.


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> That thread will surely lead you down the path to EXTREME basshead city - and has a top 10 list that includes the Fostex TH900 that I referenced in position 2.  They are a great resource for heavy bassheads - with that being THE reason for the thread.  Just keep that in mind.
> 
> If you're after sub bass out of vintage.............the HiFiMan HE-6 cannot be beat for visceral bass.  I'd go out on a limb and suggest you try a planar headphone (HE-6, HE-400 and the like) - they perform very well out of vintage power amps.


 
 HE-6 from headphone out isnt very good,so he would need a modded cable to run it from the taps as I do,and then,youre right...amazing headphone......when driven with enough horses.


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> HE-6 from headphone out isnt very good,so he would need a modded cable to run it from the taps as I do,and then,youre right...amazing headphone......when driven with enough horses.




Good point that I assumed (incorrectly obviously) everyone already knew. Thanks for chiming in! 

They are night and day taps vs headphone out.....


----------



## nuskool

monsterzero said:


> HE-6 from headphone out isnt very good,so he would need a modded cable to run it from the taps as I do,and then,youre right...amazing headphone......when driven with enough horses.


 
  


oregonian said:


> They are night and day taps vs headphone out.....


 
  
 Anyone care to explain in a bit more detail for me please as I don't really understand!


----------



## r2muchstuff

@ nuskool,
  
 What price range of headphone are you considering?
  
 The answers we have been providing are all over the place price wise with many moving up the price scale.
  
 Targeted answers might be more helpful.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## nuskool

To be honest I'm open. I was originally looking at the ~£100-£150 range (things like DT770), then I went a bit more ~£200 (Fidelio X2). Ideally it would be around £150 but I'm willing to pay more if it is a worthy upgrade to the HD555s.
  
 Don't get me wrong I would be willing to pay more if I am sure they are definitely the right ones to get.
  
 Sorry, a little vague I guess but really appreciate you all helping me out.


----------



## SpeakerBox

nuskool said:


> To be honest I'm open. I was originally looking at the ~£100-£150 range (things like DT770), then I went a bit more ~£200 (Fidelio X2). Ideally it would be around £150 but I'm willing to pay more if it is a worthy upgrade to the HD555s.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I would be willing to pay more if I am sure they are definitely the right ones to get.
> 
> Sorry, a little vague I guess but really appreciate you all helping me out.


 
  
 Have you tried just doing the foam mod to the 555s?  It improves the bass output.  Maybe that is all you need.   Mine kick butt out of my 1250.


----------



## Oregonian

nuskool said:


> Anyone care to explain in a bit more detail for me please as I don't really understand!


 

 I'll try..........the "headphone out" is the 1/4" plug that most headphones plug into on the receiver/amp - and what was said is the HE-6, when compared to the "speaker taps" connection, is much less engaging.  The speaker tap hookup is done by using the stock balanced XLR cable and instead of using the 1/4" plug end, folks cut off the plug and put the wires directly into the speaker out (aka "taps") on their amp directly.  It gives direct power from the amp instead of the "resistor-dropped" power the headphone plug has and with the HE-6, which can take the power, sounds so much more powerful.  Visceral is the term many of us use when describing the bass out of the speaker taps.  Truly mind blowing how much better the sound and bass sounds/feels like driving the headphone this way.  
  
 Hope that helps.


----------



## Monsterzero

nuskool said:


> To be honest I'm open. I was originally looking at the ~£100-£150 range (things like DT770), then I went a bit more ~£200 (Fidelio X2). Ideally it would be around £150 but I'm willing to pay more if it is a worthy upgrade to the HD555s.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I would be willing to pay more if I am sure they are definitely the right ones to get.
> 
> Sorry, a little vague I guess but really appreciate you all helping me out.


 
 Other than the JVC SZ2000,I dont know too many headphones that do slamming bass at that price point...I dont recommend it though,cuz I think the rest of the sound is pretty bad.

 Have you tried the 'Loudness' button on your 1050? That should make any headphone have bass,although the rest of the sound might suffer too.

 Something else you may consider is this:

 https://shop.subpac.com/products/subpac-m2-wearable?variant=24236903814

 Havent tried it myself but the thread about it gives it rave reviews.


----------



## SX3900

100 Euro can buy you a mint used Phillips X1 or very used X2 both have plenty of bass, or a used  Denon D600 - mega bass there.
 Just look a flea bay or the used Amazon section.


----------



## SX3900

And for balance mode, I wired an female 4-pin XLR plug to the speaker outputs (taps) so I can use several headphones in balanced mode. All my headphones have nothing but a male 4-pin xlr plug wired to them. You can also use an 4-pin xlr to 1/4 trs plug adapter if you want to use a the phone jack....


----------



## Monsterzero

sx3900 said:


> 100 Euro can buy you a mint used Phillips X1 or very used X2 both have plenty of bass, or a used  Denon D600 - mega bass there.
> Just look a flea bay or the used Amazon section.


 
  
  


sx3900 said:


> And for balance mode, I wired an female 4-pin XLR plug to the speaker outputs (taps) so I can use several headphones in balanced mode. All my headphones have nothing but a male 4-pin xlr plug wired to them. You can also use an 4-pin xlr to 1/4 trs plug adapter if you want to use a the phone jack....


 
 To be clear to OP,you do not *need* to run anything from speaker taps,except an HE-6...especially an X1,which can be driven by a potato.


----------



## Benny-x

monsterzero said:


> To be clear to OP,you do not *need* to run anything from speaker taps,except an HE-6...especially an X1,which can be driven by a potato.




You don't need to run anything from the speaker taps, but you *can run* anything from the speaker taps as long as you are mindful of the volume knob and start at max attentuation. 

And, in my experience the taps sound best off the headphones I've tried so far.


----------



## PhoenixG

I ran into this guy in a second hand store yesterday. I think the secret is out! $1000! Jeeze


----------



## AudioDoctor

phoenixg said:


> I ran into this guy in a second hand store yesterday. I think the secret is out! $1000! Jeeze


 
  
  
 ******* ridiculous.


----------



## penmarker

phoenixg said:


> I ran into this guy in a second hand store yesterday. I think the secret is out! $1000! Jeeze


 
 1. Find a few willing volunteers
 2. Time so that each one enters the store at random different times
 3. Snicker/giggle whenever passes the unit. Make sure audible to owner/staff
 4. If anyone asks why giggling, say its supposed to be cheap.
 5. Repeat enough times
 6. ????
 7. PROFIT!!!11


----------



## SpeakerBox

Not worth $1K even if recapped.


----------



## PhoenixG

I think I'll check back in a month and see if they're serious about freeing up the shelf space. It's a major second hand megastore chain, so haggling isn't really a thing. I think it's realistically worth about 60% of what they're asking if they can prove the condition is flawless, 40% otherwise. Time will tell if they get out of the stratosphere.


----------



## kapple

Hi, I am not sure if this is the right place to post this. If not, please let me know.
  
 I have an old Technics model SA-R921 AM/FM Stereo Receiver. Pics of the inputs and model label on it are at:
 Labling: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8-Ks0_3iS3NN1A1bWFCblZEd3M
 Input jacks: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8-Ks0_3iS3NUXJ6cnZYR2d3bkk
  
 I also have some floor speakers that I have used with this receiver.
  
 It all sounded great when I played records, tapes, and CDs. However, I have since replaced my home stereo with my iPhone and PC playing through my Bose SoundLink Color Bluetooth speaker II. I am trying to find a way to upgrade, and use my old equipment. Baring that, I hope I could use the Fiio DAP with a newer powered speaker.
  
 I am planning on buying a DAP, and at this point feel that either the Fiio X3 2nd gen, or the Fiio X5 2nd gen will be my best choice. I realize these have a second output besides the earphone, that being the "Line out / Digital out (coaxial)" 3.5 mm port. 
  
 I don't thoroughly understand how/if the DAP technology works with old analog equipment, and this may be a dumb question. But I am seeing threads about using the coaxial adapter for the X5s 3.5mm coaxial port to connect to stereo equipment. Would such a thing be possible with an old (1980's) receiver such as I have? 
  
 Any guidance on this would be welcome.
 Thanks.


----------



## PhoenixG

My new 'travel rig'. It's cute, Bluetooth, and decent sounding. It clocks in around one watt output power, universal outboard power supply, and with some home made adapters runs efficient-ish full size speakers and headphones pretty dang well. The faux tubes and output transformers next to the real filter caps are a great touch.


----------



## Monsterzero

kapple said:


> Hi, I am not sure if this is the right place to post this. If not, please let me know.
> 
> I have an old Technics model SA-R921 AM/FM Stereo Receiver. Pics of the inputs and model label on it are at:
> Labling: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8-Ks0_3iS3NN1A1bWFCblZEd3M
> ...


 
 Yeah its very possible,in fact my son runs his DAP line-out(Ibasso) into my Marantz 2226b I gave him,using a 3.5mm to RCA cable.You will also want to get a usb wall wart so you can keep your DAP charged while being used.


----------



## kapple

monsterzero said:


> Yeah its very possible,in fact my son runs his DAP line-out(Ibasso) into my Marantz 2226b I gave him,using a 3.5mm to RCA cable.You will also want to get a usb wall wart so you can keep your DAP charged while being used.


 
 Hi and thanks monsterzero. So the RCA cable out of the Fiio would plug into the main in on the receiver? 
 I have been going back and forth between the Fiio X5, and the Sony A26. The Sony having Bluetooth, and the contemporary speakers being Bluetooth as well, including the Sony h.ear go.
 I have my Bose, and the Bluetooth connection has more output than the aux in when using my iPhone, so that is why I keep the Sony in mind. But If I can get decent sound and volume out of my old gear, then it would be a no brainer for me.


----------



## Skylab

You would connect the cable from your FIIO to the input jack on your Technics that is labeled "CD", if it is unused. Or you can connect it to the jacks labeled "Playback Tape/VCR1" or 2. You should not use the Main in.


----------



## kapple

skylab said:


> You would connect the cable from your FIIO to the input jack on your Technics that is labeled "CD", if it is unused. Or you can connect it to the jacks labeled "Playback Tape/VCR1" or 2. You should not use the Main in.


 
 Thanks skylab.
 None of the jacks are used right now. I am looking to redeploy this equipment. I am assuming the the output of the Fiio would just be passed through the receiver to the speakers, and that I could fill a floor of the house with pretty decent sound.


----------



## Monsterzero

kapple said:


> Thanks skylab.
> None of the jacks are used right now. I am looking to redeploy this equipment. *I am assuming the the output of the Fiio would just be passed through the receiver to the speakers, and that I could fill a floor of the house with pretty decent sound. *


 
 Yep, thats how it works. Your DAP decodes the music,sends it out to your receiver which amplifies the music,and on out to the speakers.


----------



## r2muchstuff

kapple said:


> Thanks skylab.
> None of the jacks are used right now. I am looking to redeploy this equipment. I am assuming the the output of the Fiio would* just be passed through* the receiver to the speakers, and that I could fill a floor of the house with pretty decent sound.


 
  
  


monsterzero said:


> Yep, thats how it works. Your DAP decodes the music,sends it out to your *receiver which amplifies* the music,and on out to the speakers.


 

 I would not call it Pass Through, the receiver is serving as the amp.  Volume control on receiver should be in control of the speaker volume.  The FiiO is serving as any other line out put device (CD/tape/tuner/DAC etc.) which uses the receiver's Pre controls and amp.
  
 Pass Through would be be using the "Rec Out " of the receiver which should just pass through (no pre amp adjustments or amping) the FiiO's line out signal.  
  
 IMHO,
 r2


----------



## kapple

monsterzero said:


> Yep, thats how it works. Your DAP decodes the music,sends it out to your receiver which amplifies the music,and on out to the speakers.


 
 That is what I need to hear. Between this discussion with you, and other on Head-Fi about the same topic, I am confident that what I want to do will work great. I also feel that the X5 would be the way to go with this setup. I can always find a different portable speaker for the road, if it is needed. 
  
 Thanks for the input.


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> I would not call it Pass Through, the receiver is serving as the amp.  Volume control on receiver should be in control of the speaker volume.  The FiiO is serving as any other line out put device (CD/tape/tuner/DAC etc.) which uses the receiver's Pre controls and amp.
> 
> Pass Through would be be using the "Rec Out " of the receiver which should just pass through (no pre amp adjustments or amping) the FiiO's line out signal.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes thats correct...you want your receiver to do the heavy lifting for volume/amping the signal being sent from the DAP...


----------



## kapple

Thanks monsterzero and r2muchstuff.
 I pulled the plug, and bought the X5 and a 128GB card for it. After a month of looking and researching, it was time to take action


----------



## Koei

H​ow old does an amp have to be to classify as vintage? Can I call my Marantz PM-16 new vintage?


----------



## SpeakerBox

koei said:


> H​ow old does an amp have to be to classify as vintage? Can I call my Marantz PM-16 new vintage?


 
  
 The equipment discussed here is generally from the late 60s through about 1980.  Most of them from the silver faced era.


----------



## Koei

speakerbox said:


> The equipment discussed here is generally from the late 60s through about 1980.  Most of them from the silver faced era.


 

 I'll wait another 20 years.


----------



## atarione

koei said:


> H​ow old does an amp have to be to classify as vintage? Can I call my Marantz PM-16 new vintage?


 
  
  
 well it is  21~is years old right according to hifiengine circa 1996~
  
 in 4yrs~ it would meet the general 25yrs old for classic status.. looking at the amps specs and build... yes it is a future classic..
  
 and it has a freaking remote.... Heck yes..  i have a couple late 80's (89 specifically) pieces that I love because I can control them with a harmony remote..
  
 here is my best "prized" pieces a Sony ES Stack (TA-N77ES/TA-E77ESD..etc) 200Watts for the amp ..amp ~60lbs..

  
 The combination of proper 2channel amp with quality design + remote control... is just the best...


----------



## Koei

atarione said:


> well it is  21~is years old right according to hifiengine circa 1996~
> 
> in 4yrs~ it would meet the general 25yrs old for classic status.. looking at the amps specs and build... yes it is a future classic..
> 
> ...


 
 The remote is just volume and mute. But who needs more? 5 years should be no problem, it just got all its caps replaced. Too bad the tone control section is broken, it had to be bypassed. The guy who repaired it said the rest of the amp of such high quality that he was confused that the tone control section was so badly build. Not that I ever used it. Classic? I don't know, it's not a PM-15 (32kg/70 lbs). If I can ever get a PM-15 I wont hesitate. They can't make amps like that with the copper prices as they are these days.
  
 I love old Sony ES stuff, but it always makes me kind of sad to see how much Sony has fallen these days . Did you get it recapped?


----------



## SirMarc

Redoing my man cave, figured I'll post a pic. Now I just need to pick up a lava lamp!


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Redoing my man cave, figured I'll post a pic. Now I just need to pick up a lava lamp!


 
 Been looking for a good lava lamp for quite some time now...If you happen to find one for sale online,kindly share plz...

 The ones ive seen on Amazon are POS


----------



## Monsterzero

anyone using impedance adaptors w/ their vintage receivers,and if so can anyone briefly explain what I need to make 40 ohm headphones not sound bloated from my 881.


----------



## vapman

monsterzero said:


> anyone using impedance adaptors w/ their vintage receivers,and if so can anyone briefly explain what I need to make 40 ohm headphones not sound bloated from my 881.


 
 Curious if you can get a cleaner signal off speaker taps, it might just be sending the headphone output through some ugly circuit to pull down the strength of the signal.


----------



## Monsterzero

vapman said:


> Curious if you can get a cleaner signal off speaker taps, it might just be sending the headphone output through some ugly circuit to pull down the strength of the signal.


 
 Could be,but it seems to be fairly consistent across all my receivers...low ohm headphones=mud.High ohm/planars=great.

 Not to mention these headphones have a 101db sensitivity,so speaker taps would go from zero to blue smoke in an instant


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> anyone using impedance adaptors w/ their vintage receivers,and if so can anyone briefly explain what I need to make 40 ohm headphones not sound bloated from my 881.


 
*I posted this back in August 2016, post # 16514:*
  
  
  
*I am not recommending that anyone do this.*
  
*I am sharing my **experience with my vintage amps and my headphones.*
  
*Do not do this unless you have done some research and know what you are doing, or are versed in such stuff.  I am not an expert and cannot help beyond pointing to the information.*
  
*There are lots of be careful warnings, do not short a non shared ground amp, could create crosstalk, do not create too low of a load for the amp and more.*
  
*You are warned.*
  
 Impedance adapter:
  
 I found this several years ago (at http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm plus lots of reading at AK and other sources)
  

  


> Where: Ro * Ra / (Ro + Ra)


   
 Ro is the resistor in the amp.  Ra is the adapter resistor.
  
 For example:
330 * 39 / 330 + 39 = 38.8
  
The headphone "sees" 38.8 ohms instead or 330 ohms.
  
 "If your headphone sounds dark and muddy and is driven by an amplifier or receiver, you might try to decrease the effective output impedance. This also can be done by an adapter, but this time the resistors (with value Ra) are placed in parallel with the audio-channels of the headphone."
  
 ​The above statement is true as far as my experience.  I have an adapter that calculates to 4.6 ohms, that is based on the Pioneer 150 ohm headphone jacks.
 Bass is reduced on both my HD 650 & T90 when connected to the SA 9800 with the adapter.  They become more like their normal SQ from low ohm headphone amps.
  
 It also reduces the volume, but with so many watts to start with(SA 9800 = 100w/ch at 8 ohms RMS) it is not an issue for me, there is plenty of volume.
  
 This is for Dynamic type headphones, Planar phones may not need an adapter as they should not be affected by the output resistor in the first place.
  
 Having fun,
  
 r2

  
  
  

 JMTC & experiment,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> *I posted this back in August 2016, post # 16514:*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for that!I do recall this was discussed in here before but I appreciate you digging it up!

 So,a couple things...

 Ive looked in a few places and cant seem to find info on what jack resistor Sansui used back in the day.

 Also,my brain is refusing to wrap itself around the math you provided....

 Lets assume the Sansuis used a 150ohm resistor and im wanting to drive a 40 ohm headphone w/o the bloat...what resistor would be optimum?Ive seen a few on EBay,with various resistor values,but im not "getting" the mathematics.


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero,
  
 Need to find a schematic for the Sansui, what model is it?
  
  
  
 I would use the 1/8 rule, so 40/8 = 5.  Thus, I would try for an adapter that gets close to 5 Ohms that the phones "sees"
  
 Take the "vintage" output ohms ( 150 ) and multiply by the proposed adapter resistor value ( for example 5 ) = 750
 Then divide that ( 750 ) by the sum of the original resistor ( 150 ) + the new adapter resistor ( 5 ) or 155
 So 750 / 155 = 4.8 and change that the headphone "sees".
  
 First we need to know the Sansui resistor value.
  
 And .. you may not need to hit the 1/8 rule, some value between 5 and 40 may work just fine.
  
 Please read the linked article and google others on this, there is more to know.  For example, what Watt rating of the resistors you should use.
  
  
 Anyway now that I have the Beyerdynamic T1v2 & T 90, I do not use the adapters they sound fine directly into the headphone jack 
  
 YMMV,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> monsterzero,
> 
> *Need to find a schematic for the Sansui, what model is it?*
> 
> ...


 
 I use two,an 881 and 5000a

 Found and downloaded both schematics...dont see any info on the headphone out....

 Yup on the T1,and any other high impedance headphone...my sextetts,planars,AKG K340 all are excellent...i just want to find a way to get my other headphones to sound good..currently using a MU2 for those and its not a good solution IMHO.


----------



## trivium911

Hey guys im wondering if kenwood late 80s receivers are any good? I found a flyer from 88 advertising the receiver for sale $500 on sale for $300 which is about $800 and $500 today respectively...can anyone tell me if its any good? 

kenwood KR-V87R


----------



## Monsterzero

> .


----------



## jnorris

trivium911 said:


> Hey guys im wondering if kenwood late 80s receivers are any good? I found a flyer from 88 advertising the receiver for sale $500 on sale for $300 which is about $800 and $500 today respectively...can anyone tell me if its any good?
> 
> kenwood KR-V87R


 
 I'm going to have to say that they aren't great products.  Ripe with low end op-amps, this was not the Kenwood of the '70's.  Nowadays $300 will buy a lot more quality than this on the used market.


----------



## trivium911

jnorris said:


> I'm going to have to say that they aren't great products.  Ripe with low end op-amps, this was not the Kenwood of the '70's.  Nowadays $300 will buy a lot more quality than this on the used market.




What about a Band and olufson beomaster 4400? I can tet one for $100.

Too bad the kenwood looks nice and has a graphic equalizer.


----------



## jnorris

B & O were decent, but more focused on form rather than function.  They had an issue with proprietary connections between components, too.  You pretty much were locked into B & O because nothing else would connect.  
  
 No receiver with a graphic equalizer was EVER any good!  That's when they started their quick ride down the tubes.  Just like cassette decks with dual bays and Dolby C.


----------



## trivium911

jnorris said:


> B & O were decent, but more focused on form rather than function.  They had an issue with proprietary connections between components, too.  You pretty much were locked into B & O because nothing else would connect.
> 
> No receiver with a graphic equalizer was EVER any good!  That's when they started their quick ride down the tubes.  Just like cassette decks with dual bays and Dolby C.




Alright well what can you reccomend? There is a sansui 210 up for cheap, all the good ones like the harmon kardon 430 are very expensive for something thats 40 years old.

I currently have a harmon kardon avr 1710 for upstairs living room, onkyo srs604 for my home theatre downstairs and i need something for my weight room to power my loudspeakers plus ive always wanted a vintage receiver since everyone says they have excellent sound quality and i love to tinker and solder...wouldnt mind replacing a few caps and what not or a refurb project.


----------



## Monsterzero

I love both of my Sansuis...both sound great,drive my headphones and speakers...Had a Marantz 2226b,gave it to my son,it didnt sound as good as my Sansuis.


----------



## trivium911

monsterzero said:


> I love both of my Sansuis...both sound great,drive my headphones and speakers...Had a Marantz 2226b,gave it to my son,it didnt sound as good as my Sansuis.



Is the sansui 210 any good?


----------



## Monsterzero

trivium911 said:


> Is the sansui 210 any good?


 
 Never heard one before....I usually read up on vintage gear on that other site,before i take the plunge.
 My 881 got really solid reviews over there,my 5000a not so much,but TBH my 5000a sounds pretty damn good to me!


----------



## trivium911

jnorris said:


> I'm going to have to say that they aren't great products.  Ripe with low end op-amps, this was not the Kenwood of the '70's.  Nowadays $300 will buy a lot more quality than this on the used market.





Sorry i guess i should refrase i got the kenwood for free, those were just the prices new in 1988. Its sitting in storage but im figuring out the audio for my new place once the renos are done.


----------



## jnorris

Free is a good price - you could use it as a door stop or something.  As for a recommendation, and of the Pioneer or Kenwood integrated amps, or, to a lesser extent, receivers from the mid to late '70's would serve you well.  Pioneer SX-450, 550 or 650 receivers or the Kenwood KR-7x00 series.


trivium911 said:


> Is the sansui 210 any good?


 
 That one looks really old school, but this guy liked it...
  
 http://thestereoclub.blogspot.com/2008/07/sansui-210-receiver.html


----------



## Oregonian

Speaking of free..................I did this a while ago and a few of the regulars on this thread took me up on it. I have these little red rubber RCA input covers available if you're interested. 

Pop them on the back of your unused inputs of your amps/receivers and keep the dust/gunk out of the works. 

PM me if you want a few - I've got a couple hundred available so ask away. All I need is an address and I'll mail them to you N/C.


----------



## trivium911

jnorris said:


> Free is a good price - you could use it as a door stop or something.  As for a recommendation, and of the Pioneer or Kenwood integrated amps, or, to a lesser extent, receivers from the mid to late '70's would serve you well.  Pioneer SX-450, 550 or 650 receivers or the Kenwood KR-7x00 series.
> That one looks really old school, but this guy liked it...
> 
> http://thestereoclub.blogspot.com/2008/07/sansui-210-receiver.html


 
  
  
 So the kenwood 1988 amp has JRC45580A and 4558D op amps installed. These are not too bad or what? I have no way of testing the kenwood really i just took it apart to clean it.


----------



## vapman

trivium911 said:


> So the kenwood 1988 amp has JRC45580A and 4558D op amps installed. These are not too bad or what? I have no way of testing the kenwood really i just took it apart to clean it.


 
 4558D are pretty good. Well, depends on your tastes. It's definitely an op amp that has _*that 80's hi fi sound*_.
  
 NE5532 should be tonally similar but probably more forward and balanced. Possibly a little bump in bass impact. i have been enjoying AD712 in stuff too lately.
  
 You could replace them with OPA's if you want an airier and more laid back sound. I hate laid back so I avoid OPA...


----------



## trivium911

vapman said:


> 4558D are pretty good. Well, depends on your tastes. It's definitely an op amp that has _*that 80's hi fi sound*_.
> 
> NE5532 should be tonally similar but probably more forward and balanced. Possibly a little bump in bass impact. i have been enjoying AD712 in stuff too lately.
> 
> You could replace them with OPA's if you want an airier and more laid back sound. I hate laid back so I avoid OPA...


 
 i was thinking of replacing them all with sockets and going with the LM4562's and soldering .01 uf caps on each of the postiive to chassis ground and negative to chassis ground on the pins (pin 8 and 2 on each op amp)...wondering if its worth it or not. Since there are only 4, the receiver has some crappy 10watt rear channels but the increased power to two speakers is probably still fine. If it blows up, oh well lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

Anyone rockin a monster Kenwood?

 Ive had my eye on an Eleven lll and a couple others,and was wondering how yall like them versus the usual suspects?


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> Anyone rockin a monster Kenwood?
> 
> Ive had my eye on an Eleven lll and a couple others,and was wondering how yall like them versus the usual suspects?


 
  
 The only vintage Kenwood I am running is a restored KT-7550 tuner.  Pretty awesome though!


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Anyone rockin a monster Kenwood?
> 
> 
> Ive had my eye on an Eleven lll and a couple others,and was wondering how yall like them versus the usual suspects?



I've got a Kenwood KR-7600 that's not quite a monster receiver as its only 70 wpc, but it sounds damned good. Its not quite in the same league as my Sansui 9090, but good enough for my second system. The Kenwoods from that era look awesome


----------



## vapman

In another request for opinions/assistance, I have an opportunity to grab a STR-GX9ES for a few hundo.... should i?


----------



## OldRoadToad

vapman said:


> In another request for opinions/assistance, I have an opportunity to grab a STR-GX9ES for a few hundo.... should i?


 

 ​Too modern for my taste.  I am stuck in the 70s but then I put the old in OldRoadToad.   
  
 ORT


----------



## frahengeo

The STR-GX9ES is a nice 2-channel receiver.  Definitely well built, and built around the time when Sony was still building quality audio gear.  I've heard an GX10ES driving a pair of KEF 104/2 that sounded great, and the GX9ES should sound similar.
  
 In the spirit of Head-Fi, however, I cannot comment on its ability to drive headphones...
  
 Good Luck.
  
 Adam


----------



## frahengeo

Is anyone posting pictures anymore??
  
 My Yamaha CR-3020:  All I can say is that it simply sounds amazing.
  


  
 The CR-3020 is a beast!!  See photo below with my SX-1250 on top.


----------



## SpeakerBox

frahengeo said:


> Is anyone posting pictures anymore??
> 
> My Yamaha CR-3020:  All I can say is that it simply sounds amazing.


 
 Wow, very nice frahengeo.  That is one monster yami!


----------



## Monsterzero

frahengeo said:


> Is anyone posting pictures anymore??
> 
> My Yamaha CR-3020:  All I can say is that it simply sounds amazing.
> 
> ...


 
 160wpc
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I bet my HE-6s would love that!!!

 Lovely receiver!

 While not quite as powerful,i just picked up this beauty tonite...gonna let it go head to head with my tube amp to drive my GE T2s,and if it halfway competes,im gonna go all in on a holy grail behemoth.


----------



## trivium911

Hey guys just an update, my 1988 kenwood kr v87r that i was talking about earlier, i managed to desolder the JRC 4580 op amps, solder on some sockets with 0.1 uf caps to ground and popped in four lme 4562 op amps. It sounds really good! Most of the components in the receivet are made in japan while the receiver is made in singapore...so could be worse...could be made in china with chinese components. Either way its not bad for an 80s kenwood, and the sound is more than adequate for my home gym.


----------



## Silent One

Spectacular! I just saw a wonderful and beautiful example of vintage iron from the the world's largest music company...congrats!


----------



## OldRoadToad

​Picked up a Kenwood KR-2400 for my daugher last week end.  It is nearly mint. Still on the look out or a Sansui G5700 for my older brother.  I may go look at a couple of Pioneers tomorrow.  Oh!  And I still have to replace a light on my Sony ST6800SD.  Lazy, I know.
  
  
 Happy hunting and listening to all my fellow Vintage Receiver enthusiasts!
  
 ORT


----------



## Monsterzero

Im pretty good at setting up my own systems,but im a bit puzzled on this one...maybe someone can advise...
  
 For my nearfield computer setup im running:

 laptop>Chord Mojo>Sansui 881>Pioneer BS22lr speakers

 Im wanting to add the matching Pioneer powered sub to fill out the bottom end,but im a bit puzzled as to how I can run this through my system...



 It seems both imput options bypass the Sansui...or am I having a senior moment?

 Im guessing using the RCA inputs on th right from the Sansui out,but not sure how to get audio out of Sansui

 Advice please


----------



## OldRoadToad

monsterzero said:


> Im pretty good at setting up my own systems,but im a bit puzzled on this one...maybe someone can advise...
> 
> For my nearfield computer setup im running:
> 
> ...


 

 ​On my Vintage Sony I simply ran the left and right channel speaker wires from the Sony  to the L and R inputs on my Martin-Logan Sub and also had the speaker wires for each speaker hooked in to the same inputs and to the appropriate speaker.  I set my cross over level and the out put level on the sub and sat back and enjoyed the music.
  
 If I did it wrong, it is some how still working! Time for rest.
  
 All the best!
  
 ORT


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> Im pretty good at setting up my own systems,but im a bit puzzled on this one...maybe someone can advise...
> 
> For my nearfield computer setup im running:
> 
> ...


 
  
  


oldroadtoad said:


> ​On my Vintage Sony I simply ran the left and right channel speaker wires from the Sony  to the L and R inputs on my Martin-Logan Sub and also had the speaker wires for each speaker hooked in to the same inputs and to the appropriate speaker.  I set my cross over level and the out put level on the sub and sat back and enjoyed the music.
> 
> If I did it wrong, it is some how still working! Time for rest.
> 
> ...


 

 The 881 does not have a Pre Out/Pre IN option that could be split, so there is no RCA cable option with volume control at the 881.
  
 What ORT did is a great solution.
  
 I suggest another option:
  
 Connect main speakers to Speaker "A" and connect Sub to Speaker "B", run 881 with speaker selector at "A & B" then set crossover and level at the sub just like ORT's method.  I run a Pioneer SX 1250 this way.
  
 With ORT's method & this method neither the sub or main speakers should be less than 8 Ohms.  The 881 is a 4 ohm maximum load amp, if either the sub or speakers are a 4 ohms, then the combined main/sub will drop below 4 ohms total with either of the methods.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> The 881 does not have a Pre Out/Pre IN option that could be split, so there is no RCA cable option with volume control at the 881.
> 
> What ORT did is a great solution.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes,youre right,theres no preout on the 881,so Im going to try the a+b method...read some conflicting reports of results using the a+b method on AK,but im hopeful that yours or ORTs method works.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Monster,
  
 Could you point me to the "conflicting reports" I would like to read them.
  
  
 Another note on adding subs to Vintage receivers/amps:
  
 Splitting Vintage RCA Pre Out / Pre IN generally only works for subs that have a left and right RCA input.  If the sub has only one RCA input jack and the Amp Pre Out is combined (using a Y type adapter or =) to a single plug the combined signal goes into the amps Pre IN as combined also.  The results is a mono (combined L & R) output to the main speakers.
  
 Using the speaker wire connections avoids this issue.
  
 Just my experience,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> Monster,
> 
> Could you point me to the "conflicting reports" I would like to read them.
> 
> ...


 
 This thread here,post #11,12,13


----------



## BucketInABucket

Anyone know a good place to sell receivers in the UK apart from eBay? I need to downsize as I don't use most of my collection...


----------



## SpeakerBox

bucketinabucket said:


> Anyone know a good place to sell receivers in the UK apart from eBay? I need to downsize as I don't use most of my collection...


 
  
 Do you have Craig's list in the UK?  That is an option I use here in the USA.


----------



## r2muchstuff

monsterzero said:


> This thread here,post #11,12,13


 

 I see nothing there that I would worry about.  They do not discuss the load with the combined speakers/sub and one amp is iffy.  Not enough information to know what was going on.
  
 With speaker level connections, follow the amps specifications on low ohm loads and all should be good.
  
 Warning - Please be careful with speaker wires and connections, mistakes (shorts mainly) can create problems.
  
 With Pre Level connections, watch out for creating a mono (combined) signal and all should be good.
  
 Some subs have pass through connections for speaker level (two sets of speaker connections - In & Out) and Pre level (two sets of RCA connections - In & Out).  These work great and *may* allow the crossover control on the sub to effect the downstream signal.
  
 For non surround systems I choose Pre level (if available) first, then speaker level.  If sub has pass through speaker connections I may use them (depending on speaker placement and length of wires) if not, I will use "Speaker A & B"
  
 I have never had any issues except a sub that combined the RCA input (yes they all get combined, but not so the Pre line "sees" the combination), even though it had Left & Right RCA connectors, creating a mono signal back to the amp.
  
  
 Again JMTC & my experience,
 r2


----------



## Oregonian

I'm with r2muchstuff here - I run three separate vintage systems using the A being main speakers and B being the sub connection.  Works like a charm...........


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> I'm with r2muchstuff here - I run three separate vintage systems using the A being main speakers and B being the sub connection.  Works like a charm...........


 
 I will give it a shot...sub will arrive this week.

 I love when you post Oregonian,gives me a valid excuse to stare at your avatar


----------



## OldRoadToad

oregonian said:


> I'm with r2muchstuff here - I run three separate vintage systems using the A being main speakers and B being the sub connection.  Works like a charm...........


 

 ​Excellent idea and one  that never occurred to me!  I shall give it try one day.
  
 Thanks!
  
 ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

I am hoping to audition one of these today -  A (supposedly) near minty fresh Pioneer SX-2500 with a rare and some what desireable working feature:   Automatic Tuning wherein the dial actually rotates via a motor!
  
 Talk about bitchin'!  Huzzah indeed!
  
 ORT


----------



## r2muchstuff

I really like the look of the blue dial Pioneer stuff.
  
 Great find.
  
 Produced 1971 -1973
 Top of the stereo receiver line 1971 - 1973
 72 W/ch into 8 ohms
 0.5 THD, 0.4 IMD
 Original price - $549.95 US (1971)
  
 r2


----------



## OldRoadToad

r2muchstuff said:


> I really like the look of the blue dial Pioneer stuff.
> 
> Great find.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you, I just returned from buying it.  It is, as I said, nearly minty fresh.  The automatic tuning even works (but the dial is not supposed to turn, the tuner does!) and there is no scratchiness to any knobs. If my brother does not want this (he really wants a Sansui G5700)  I will likely give it to some one else, either in my family or a very good friend. 
  
 But they must appreciate it for both what it is and what it represents.
  
 ORT


----------



## Oregonian

oldroadtoad said:


> Thank you, I just returned from buying it.  It is, as I said, nearly minty fresh.  The automatic tuning even works (but the dial is not supposed to turn, the tuner does!) and there is no scratchiness to any knobs. If my brother does not want this (he really wants a Sansui G5700)  I will likely give it to some one else, either in my family or a very good friend.
> 
> But they must appreciate it for both what it is and what it represents.
> 
> ORT


 

 Looks like a keeper!  What price did that go for?


----------



## OldRoadToad

oregonian said:


> Looks like a keeper!  What price did that go for?


 

 ​Thank you.  I paid the gentleman his asking price of $150.  I paid that much for my Sony STR-6800SD and the KR-2400 for my daughter cost me $125.  This latest Pioneer is simply beautiful with only one small scratch and I only noticed it because the rest of the receiver is simply stunning.  It came from an Estate Sale.  The man then cleaned up every thing on and in it.  The little beastie is impressively weighty and I find that a comfort of sorts.  The only things missing are the cabled remote, which may have been an option, and the B Speakers plugs.  I can pick up a set of those if need be but I see no real need. It plays beautifully via the A Speaker connections. 
  
 It will be difficult to give it to my older brother but as I said, he still wants me to find him a Sansui G5700 so I will continue with that search and hold on to this for a while as he lives nearly a thousand miles from me.. I will bring it to him when next I visit.   He wants what he wants and I want him to be happy.  I will say, the blue lights of this unit are gorgeous in the dark.  The SX-770 was also a beauty but I can not reasonably afford to pick up two when only one was needed for my brother and I could not think of any one to give it to.
  
 Any thing I purchase, be it for my self or family and friends will not sit idly but be used and taken care of.  The 70s was the pinnacle of receivers for me and I hope other find them to be just as desirable and worthy of use as I do.
  
 Thank you again for the kind words.
  
 ORT


----------



## Oregonian

That's a great price................congrats!


----------



## roadcykler

I was pretty close (I think) to getting a Nakamichi TA-4A receiver that has something called "STASIS" technology which was designed by Nelson Pass (perhaps you've heard of him?) but I didn't get to it in time. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 While not in the same vintage vein as most of the stuff here, it would have been a welcome addition to my main system.


----------



## SpeakerBox

roadcykler said:


> I was pretty close (I think) to getting a Nakamichi TA-4A receiver that has something called "STASIS" technology which was designed by Nelson Pass (perhaps you've heard of him?) but I didn't get to it in time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Big Nelson Pass fan here.  I build a DIY B1 buffer (similar to a pre-amp) that he designed.  Sounds terrific.  Sorry you missed on the Nak.


----------



## jnorris

My understanding is that Pass had little, if anything, to do with the Nakamichi.  It was a licensing deal only.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> My understanding is that Pass had little, if anything, to do with the Nakamichi.  It was a licensing deal only.


 
  
 Not what I heard.  As I understand it Nak actually used his patented stasis circuitry.  But - I have been wrong before.


----------



## jnorris

This quote from Nelson Pass is from http://www.audioxpress.com/article/Interview-with-Nelson-Pass
  
  
 "The relationship with Nakamichi was more profit oriented. Around 1985 we were approached for a patent license and design work, which resulted in the Nakamichi versions of the Stasis amplifiers. Actually, we did not have to do a lot of work—they took our existing schematics and rendered them into their own version of the product. At the end of the process, they brought one up to Foresthill to have it tweaked, and there we were."


----------



## SpeakerBox

jnorris said:


> This quote from Nelson Pass is from http://www.audioxpress.com/article/Interview-with-Nelson-Pass
> 
> 
> "The relationship with Nakamichi was more profit oriented. Around 1985 we were approached for a patent license and design work, which resulted in the Nakamichi versions of the Stasis amplifiers. Actually, we did not have to do a lot of work—they took our existing schematics and rendered them into their own version of the product. At the end of the process, they brought one up to Foresthill to have it tweaked, and there we were."


 
  
 Sounds like they did use his circuit design.


----------



## jnorris

My take is that they started with his design but morphed it into their own design - probably because they arrogantly thought they could do it better.  Having looked at some of the Nak stuff I think they should have stuck with cassette decks.


----------



## Monsterzero

> The 881 does not have a Pre Out/Pre IN option that could be split, so there is no RCA cable option with volume control at the 881.
> 
> What ORT did is a great solution.
> 
> ...


 
 The a/b method worked fine on my Sansui 881....thanks for the ideas guys!


----------



## Oregonian

monsterzero said:


> The a/b method worked fine on my Sansui 881....thanks for the ideas guys!


 
 Very cool!  Glad it worked out for you!


----------



## roadcykler

jnorris said:


> My take is that they started with his design but morphed it into their own design - probably because they arrogantly thought they could do it better.  Having looked at some of the Nak stuff I think they should have stuck with cassette decks.


 

 Ever slightly off the thread topic. I ran across a pair of Nakamichi branded headphones at a Burlington Coat Factory a few years ago but I doubt they actually had anything to do with them but authorize the name. I guess for $7.95, they don't sound bad..


----------



## jnorris

Yes, I saw them and, on a lark, bought a set of the in-ears.  At $5.00, I paid too much.  It was even worth driving back to K-Mart to return them.  Sad what happened to Nakamichi.


----------



## jgreen16

Sad indeed. At a selling price of $5.00, can you imagine what it cost to make them? Probably under $2.00.


----------



## jnorris

Less than that - they probably sold them to K-Mart for $2.00.  Nakamichi probably paid some OEM 20 cents a piece for them. The cost to manufacture, once tool and die are worked out (which was probably paid for by another company to whom the OEM supplied) is pennies.


----------



## penmarker

You can get RCA and banana jacks with Nakamichi printed on them too off fleabay and others. All directly imported from China. They cost pennies.
 I bought some banana jacks, can't say they sound any inferior or superior than others. Jacks are jacks anyway.


----------



## OldRoadToad

​A thought, if I may on vintage receivers...
  
 With regard to selling, asking and paying prices both sides of the coin need to keep in mind that we may not always get what we desire money-wise.  With any thing but especially vintage equipment, price is influenced by the emotional attachment an item has.
  
 Example.  My older brother wants a Sansui G5700. I have been looking for one for him but will not pay what I consider too much because the emotional attachment is to him and not the receiver. 
  
 It is the same with cars and motorcycles, or at least for me it is.  Price can reach a point that I lose my desire to own some thing.  This is all very personal but just some thing I thought needed saying.
  
 And it may have all ready been said.  But then, nothing is new under the some except the wonder of a child's first experiences in life.  That may just be what we are seeking with these beautiful receivers.  To relive some of those moments of wonder.
  
 Okay.  I am done rambling.  
  
 ORT


----------



## Oregonian

oldroadtoad said:


> ​A thought, if I may on vintage receivers...
> 
> With regard to selling, asking and paying prices both sides of the coin need to keep in mind that we may not always get what we desire money-wise.  With any thing but especially vintage equipment, price is influenced by the emotional attachment an item has.
> 
> ...


 
 Great topic.  Sometimes it's just right timing to find and/or sell the piece you have.   I watch craigslist a few times a week waiting for something that I can't live without..............been seeing this SX-1080 for sale for about two months - price is $750 which isn't unreasonable in my opinion.  It's in great shape and has had LED lights installed.  I put my SX-1050 up for sale as it was one of three extra amps I have - and sold it in three days for my asking price of $700.  Simply because the guy had a 1050 in his twenties and absolutely wanted it.  Basically told me he wanted it, no dickering, hadn't seen it yet.  When I met him it was like meeting one of you guys - totally into vintage, owns 6 amps/receivers and is a Pioneer fan like myself.  Great guy too.  Glad it went to a good home..............


----------



## Hutnicks

oregonian said:


> Great topic.  Sometimes it's just right timing to find and/or sell the piece you have.   I watch craigslist a few times a week waiting for something that I can't live without..............been seeing this SX-1080 for sale for about two months - price is $750 which isn't unreasonable in my opinion.  It's in great shape and has had LED lights installed.  I put my SX-1050 up for sale as it was one of three extra amps I have - and sold it in three days for my asking price of $700.  Simply because the guy had a 1050 in his twenties and absolutely wanted it.  Basically told me he wanted it, no dickering, hadn't seen it yet.  When I met him it was like meeting one of you guys - totally into vintage, owns 6 amps/receivers and is a Pioneer fan like myself.  Great guy too.  Glad it went to a good home..............


 

 It kind of cuts two ways here. There is the nostalgic factor which will lead some to seek out vintage equipment. Then there is a simple fact that despite all the hoopla and gee whiz that current manu's would have you believe, there has not been much sonic improvement of amps in the last 40 years. Distortion limits were reached long ago and really a cheapo integrated from the 70's recapped and perhaps updated with a new transformer and opamps will shame some items being hawked at "audiophile prices". Topologys have not changed much, components have indeed come up in QC over the years.


----------



## Monsterzero

hutnicks said:


> It kind of cuts two ways here. There is the nostalgic factor which will lead some to seek out vintage equipment. Then there is a simple fact that despite all the hoopla and gee whiz that current manu's would have you believe, there has not been much sonic improvement of amps in the last 40 years. Distortion limits were reached long ago and really a cheapo integrated from the 70's recapped and perhaps updated with a new transformer and opamps will shame some items being hawked at "audiophile prices". Topologys have not changed much, components have indeed come up in QC over the years.


 
 I do love my vintage gear for driving my headphones,and nostalgia and a passion for all things vintage drove me to seek out this thread and eventually into getting several receivers.
 That being said I was hoping to completely go vintage in all aspects of my audio gear,but thus far I have yet to hear any SS receivers that can come remotely close to my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum for driving my speakers.I have spoken to my vintage repair guy about getting vintage tube stuff and his comments have scared me off.

 For headphones and my computer speaker setup I love my vintage but for my home speaker set-up Im still in the modern era.


----------



## Hutnicks

monsterzero said:


> I do love my vintage gear for driving my headphones,and nostalgia and a passion for all things vintage drove me to seek out this thread and eventually into getting several receivers.
> That being said I was hoping to completely go vintage in all aspects of my audio gear,but thus far I have yet to hear any SS receivers that can come remotely close to my Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum for driving my speakers.I have spoken to my vintage repair guy about getting vintage tube stuff and his comments have scared me off.
> 
> For headphones and my computer speaker setup I love my vintage but for my home speaker set-up Im still in the modern era.


 

 If you were not a Tooober I would urge you to seek out a Krell KSA 50. Humbly suggested here, there has not been a better amp made before or since. Even given the exhorbitant (in my opinion) prices they fetch now, well worth the exploration. Just keep flammable materials well away from that sucker. The speaker has not been made yet that can outresolve that amp.


----------



## Monsterzero

hutnicks said:


> If you were not a Tooober I would urge you to seek out a Krell KSA 50. Humbly suggested here, there has not been a better amp made before or since. Even given the exhorbitant (in my opinion) prices they fetch now, well worth the exploration. Just keep flammable materials well away from that sucker. The speaker has not been made yet that can outresolve that amp.



 


That thing looks like a beast! What does it weigh?

You mentioned the price,care to elaborate?

Im certainly not arguing with you on its performance,but for me it does lack the sexiness of receivers...just my two cents.


----------



## vapman

monsterzero said:


> hutnicks said:
> 
> 
> > If you were not a Tooober I would urge you to seek out a Krell KSA 50. Humbly suggested here, there has not been a better amp made before or since. Even given the exhorbitant (in my opinion) prices they fetch now, well worth the exploration. Just keep flammable materials well away from that sucker. The speaker has not been made yet that can outresolve that amp.
> ...


 
 Its one of the few power amps I would EVER consider using instead of my Hafler DH 500.


----------



## Hutnicks

vapman said:


> Its one of the few power amps I would EVER consider using instead of my Hafler DH 500.


 

 Hoo aaah, the Hafler has to be on the list as well.. As for cost, recapped ( no small thing for that amp) it commands about 2500 bucks. I consider that a little painfull, but were I to be honest, you can spend a hundred grand on some boooteek new amp that will weep in shame when put next to the output of that 50 Watt Krell.
  
 As a sales guy once stated some years ago, There is no Bass like Krell Bass and when you get to the mids and highs, angels just weep.


----------



## Monsterzero

hutnicks said:


> *it commands about 2500 bucks.*
> 
> As a sales guy once stated some years ago, *There is no Bass like Krell Bass and when you get to the mids and highs, angels just weep.*


 
 ...as well as ones wallet apparently!

 Yeah im not in a position to drop 2500.00 on any gear at the moment. My original plan was to sell the Cronos,get a vintage receiver to replace it and have enough left over to afford the ZMF Atticus(awesome headphone btw)

 I have a NOS Telefunken 12AU7 rib plate in my Cronos...and yes,esp on female vocals,the mids are to weep over,truly breathtaking.I cannot give that sound up without having something similar in place...and still be able to grab the ZMF HPs im lusting over....

 My wallet(and my wife)hate this hobby!


----------



## Hutnicks

monsterzero said:


> ...as well as ones wallet apparently!
> 
> Yeah im not in a position to drop 2500.00 on any gear at the moment. My original plan was to sell the Cronos,get a vintage receiver to replace it and have enough left over to afford the ZMF Atticus(awesome headphone btw)
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, it's a heavy pull on the finances. There are a couple of DIY boards available to build one yourself. I don't trust myself enough to match the transistors to get it right though. Still............
  
 And of course there are always other headphones to consider. Though I have rarely heard anything that make me want to ditch the old Yamaha Hp1's thus far


----------



## Monsterzero

hutnicks said:


> Yes, it's a heavy pull on the finances. There are a couple of DIY boards available to build one yourself. I don't trust myself enough to match the transistors to get it right though. Still............
> 
> And of course there are always other headphones to consider. Though I have rarely heard anything that make me want to ditch the old Yamaha Hp1's thus far


 
 wow bro you like the old Yammys that much? I have a pair of the YH1 and I find it to be pretty ordinary,dark,kinda lifeless,typical 'n' shape for the era...Ill take my sextetts all day any day over my Yammys for HPs...heck i prefer my sextetts to my HE-6 most days.

 You almost certainly wouldnt like the new ZMF headphones,especially the Atticus...that thing thunders like a sledgehammer with midbass impact


----------



## Hutnicks

monsterzero said:


> wow bro you like the old Yammys that much? I have a pair of the YH1 and I find it to be pretty ordinary,dark,kinda lifeless,typical 'n' shape for the era...Ill take my sextetts all day any day over my Yammys for HPs...heck i prefer my sextetts to my HE-6 most days.
> 
> You almost certainly wouldnt like the new ZMF headphones,especially the Atticus...that thing thunders like a sledgehammer with midbass impact


 

 I do not find the Yama to lack in bass. I have a second gen T20 as well and love that. I am experimenting with a pair of JVC's bought for almost nothing right now and with a few 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 hours work, some sorbothane and angelhair they are coming along. They would be what I call my basshead phones, and I am spending way too much time with them of late. Sometimes a wee bit of tuning can really bring a mediocre phone into gem like performance.
  
 But no one will argue with a good pair of sextetts.


----------



## Monsterzero

What do yall think of McIntosh receivers and amps? I know they carry a huge premium price tag,even back in the day,but is the SQ head and shoulders over the Marantz,Pioneers and Sansuis of the world?

 My neighbor used to have one and Ive always been infatuated with them,even though for the life of me I dont recall how it sounded.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

My parents still have their Mc system all original including 2 sets of ML4 speakers which i like very much that bass can stop your breath if you play it really loud and get close to it


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> What do yall think of McIntosh receivers and amps? I know they carry a huge premium price tag,even back in the day,but is the SQ head and shoulders over the Marantz,Pioneers and Sansuis of the world?
> 
> My neighbor used to have one and Ive always been infatuated with them,even though for the life of me I dont recall how it sounded.


 
 I've had about 20 pieces of mostly vintage mac gear at this point apart from my other vintage units and I can say that their power amps and preamps are just amazing. Once you hear a good one, you might just never feel the need to upgrade again. I have a MR-78 tuner that, after some mods, is never leaving my system. There are some gradients in quality between separates vs integrated vs receivers, as well as autoformers versus no autoformers. I don't really care for their off core products, such as cd players, music servers, etc. If you want to know more, I can get into specifics later.


----------



## Hutnicks

phoenixg said:


> I've had about 20 pieces of mostly vintage mac gear at this point apart from my other vintage units and I can say that their power amps and preamps are just amazing. Once you hear a good one, you might just never feel the need to upgrade again. I have a MR-78 tuner that, after some mods, is never leaving my system. There are some gradients in quality between separates vs integrated vs receivers, as well as autoformers versus no autoformers. I don't really care for their off core products, such as cd players, music servers, etc. If you want to know more, I can get into specifics later.


 

 I think (therefore I may be spam) ok bad pun time over. Mac suffers from the same thing that the brothers Krell did. They sold out and newer offerings have not the dedicated (targeted) end result that the previous examples exibited. In short, the "whats in a name" applies here more than anywhwere else.
  
 If by any chance you run across an estate sale with Mac, Linn, Quad, or Naim equip at bargain prices.That would be the time to jump in.


----------



## OldRoadToad

monsterzero said:


> What do yall think of McIntosh receivers and amps? I know they carry a huge premium price tag,even back in the day,but is the SQ head and shoulders over the Marantz,Pioneers and Sansuis of the world?
> 
> My neighbor used to have one and Ive always been infatuated with them,even though for the life of me I dont recall how it sounded.


 

 They are gorgeous but to be honest, I do not think any thing has a "signature" sound unless it is poorly made.  For me, it is the comfort of the glow  of the dials and if they have them, VU Meters.  The tactile joy of the controls is another feature that is time less.  Looks are definitely subjective and unlike "sound", can be easily seen and a determination made based upon one's own preferences.
  
 McIntosh and Sansui are among my favorites for looks and I do not own either marque.
  
 Yet.
  
 ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

I owned this model receiver in the mid 80s.  Circa 1986, I believe and it was a TX-108.   It was nice and I believe it was an Integra model of Onkyo's.  Not some thing I would consider today but only because I much prefer the 70s over the 80s.  Subjective?  Yuppers!  It had pre-amp in/out so I could easily hook my Bose 901s to it.  The seller is in LA and wants $125 for it.
  
 I still have the 90s but have yet to get them out of the boxes and hooked in to any thing.  I like them too.  Dammit! I am going to talk my self in to buying this thing...Must...resist....stupidity...again.../
  
 ORT


----------



## PhoenixG

hutnicks said:


> I think (therefore I may be spam) ok bad pun time over. Mac suffers from the same thing that the brothers Krell did. They sold out and newer offerings have not the dedicated (targeted) end result that the previous examples exibited. In short, the "whats in a name" applies here more than anywhwere else.
> 
> If by any chance you run across an estate sale with Mac, Linn, Quad, or Naim equip at bargain prices.That would be the time to jump in.


 
 I would say that their core products don't suffer from what you're describing. If you get a Mac mono or two channel amp with autoformers coupled with a mac preamp, you're going to get unbeatable sound. And not just the sound, you're also paying for repairability and product support. Very few other brands have anywhere near the same level of support, even for products that came out 50 years ago. They have been consistently good for decades, so an older mac will have most of the performance of a new one. Of course you're going to miss some of the diminishing returns of new, but you might not even notice the .001% difference in specs. I'd jump on a good MC 2125 or a C-26-32 in a heartbeat. And that's not even getting into tubes. Their tube models are fantastic for many of the same reasons. They are repairable, excellent, and build to last for-ev-er.
 When I look for value for money with mcintosh, I look for build quality, discrete circuits, and autoformers! They only have been putting autoformers in their top models recently, so I tend to go older to be able to afford them. I don't even consider a Mac amp without them. 
  
  
 If you want to talk about their cd players, multi channel amps, (record players, headphones, speakers...), then you're spot on. The CD players have always disappointed me on a reliability level and are nearly identical inside to most quality cd players. The music servers can easily be beat by a good DAC and a dedicated computer. The record players are very similar to their OEM cousins in the $2k-3k range. The newest speakers have sacrificed significantly on the altar of aesthetics and marginally better specs for a sound I find... just an iota harsh.
  
 A little bit more on their speakers: I have owned the gambit of their speakers, (ML-1C, XR-7, XR-14, XR-16, XR-270, XR-290, XRT-28), and the XR-290's are by a huge margin the best speakers I've ever listened to. I'm happy every time I see them in my living room and they're staying for good. The XR-7, 14, and 16's are all very good and are still to this day infinitely repairable and a great value for their price. The XRT-28's are good too, but not as good as the XR-290's. 
  
  
  


oldroadtoad said:


> They are gorgeous but to be honest, I do not think any thing has a "signature" sound unless it is poorly made.  For me, it is the comfort of the glow  of the dials and if they have them, VU Meters.  The tactile joy of the controls is another feature that is time less.  Looks are definitely subjective and unlike "sound", can be easily seen and a determination made based upon one's own preferences.
> 
> McIntosh and Sansui are among my favorites for looks and I do not own either marque.
> 
> ...


 
  
 ORT - I agree with you totally on that front. Mac and Sansui are where it is good! (Though obviously with some caveats that some models are standouts above others, and that there are many good items out there)


----------



## Skylab

phoenixg said:


> I've had about 20 pieces of mostly vintage mac gear at this point apart from my other vintage units and I can say that their power amps and preamps are just amazing. Once you hear a good one, you might just never feel the need to upgrade again.




That's sure what happened to me. I had many vintage pieces come in and out of here when I got into it. Once I got an SX-1980 fully restored - that was it. That same 1980 has been making beautiful music here at Skylab for years now and it gets daily use. Absolutely no desire to change it.


----------



## Monsterzero

phoenixg said:


> I would say that their core products don't suffer from what you're describing. If you get a Mac mono or two channel amp with autoformers coupled with a mac preamp, you're going to get unbeatable sound. And not just the sound, you're also paying for repairability and product support. Very few other brands have anywhere near the same level of support, even for products that came out 50 years ago. They have been consistently good for decades, so an older mac will have most of the performance of a new one. Of course you're going to miss some of the diminishing returns of new, but you might not even notice the .001% difference in specs. I'd jump on a good MC 2125 or a C-26-32 in a heartbeat. And that's not even getting into tubes. Their tube models are fantastic for many of the same reasons. They are repairable, excellent, and build to last for-ev-er.
> When I look for value for money with mcintosh, I look for build quality, discrete circuits, and autoformers! They only have been putting autoformers in their top models recently, so I tend to go older to be able to afford them. I don't even consider a Mac amp without them.


 
 Sansui G-33000.....Holy Grail tier in my book!


----------



## iliketowrap19

Is Kenwood KA-7100 a good AMP? Anyone have an experience with it?


----------



## OldRoadToad

A very nice McIntosh MAC 4100 receiver offered for sale in Phoenix, AZ. 
  
 ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

iliketowrap19 said:


> Is Kenwood KA-7100 a good AMP? Anyone have an experience with it?


 

 No experience but it is gorgeous (pictured underneath the turner section in the photo).
 What is not to like?
  

  
 ORT


----------



## iliketowrap19

oldroadtoad said:


> No experience but it is gorgeous (pictured underneath the turner section in the photo).
> What is not to like?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It does look great. Is 300 a good price for it? Also, do I just plug in my headphones and play or would I need to do something else? I plan to use this to AMP my He-500's and other headphones that I buy as a sort of 1 solution Home AMP or is it too overkill.


----------



## Monsterzero

I dont know anything about that specific amp,but assuming the resistor isnt silly, it should drive HE-500s very well from the HP jack.Kind of hard to do 'overkill' with planars IMO.

 I dont know about the price...a quick Google on it says 300.00 is a bit on the high side of things but when you compare 300.00 to a dedicated HP amp of the same price,its a bargain.


----------



## iliketowrap19

monsterzero said:


> I dont know anything about that specific amp,but assuming the resistor isnt silly, it should drive HE-500s very well from the HP jack.Kind of hard to do 'overkill' with planars IMO.


 
  
 Before I pull the Trigger on this, do you guys have any suggestions on any other amp/receiver
 that would be great for around 300? This is really the first AMP im buying . The only thing I have is a portable XDUoo-05. If I were to buy another DAC, how would I hook it up to the Vintage AMP or how would I hook up say my computer to the AMP.   Also, sorry for all these newbsih questions.


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Before I pull the Trigger on this, do you guys have any suggestions on any other amp/receiver
> that would be great for around 300? This is really the first AMP im buying . The only thing I have is a portable XDUoo-05. If I were to buy another DAC, how would I hook it up to the Vintage AMP or how would I hook up say my computer to the AMP.   Also, sorry for all these newbsih questions.


 
 I think any receiver that appeals to you visually from the big names in the business from that era are safe options.

 In my experience anything 40wpc and up are good for planars...my little Marantz 2226b just doesnt do em justice.

 I run a Chord Mojo out to my Sansui 881 using 1/8th to RCA plug into AUX...if the receiver or amp youre considering doesnt have AUX you can use the tape input.

 You can use the same method w/o a DAC if your computer has an analog out.  

 Each of my four receivers has its own sound..my Sansui 5000a is def the warmest,followed by my 881.My Onkyo is brighter with better soundstage,clarity and bass control for my HE-6.


----------



## Oregonian

iliketowrap19 said:


> It does look great. Is 300 a good price for it? Also, do I just plug in my headphones and play or would I need to do something else? I plan to use this to AMP my He-500's and other headphones that I buy as a sort of 1 solution Home AMP or is it too overkill.


 
  
 It should play GREAT out of the headphone jack - but consider this - the HE-500/400/HE-6 all sound phenomenal played out of the speaker taps with an adapter which are easy to find.  I bought my two adapters from Ted @ Headphone Lounge for $40 each if I remember right. 
  
 Regarding the DAC question - you can go from the DAC to the Aux input of the Kenwood easily with a RCA connector - depending on the DAC it will either have two RCA's on the output side which is then RCA--->RCA or it will have a 1/8" jack which would need a 1/8"--->RCA adapter - available from Monoprice or Amazon for low cost.


----------



## r2muchstuff

iliketowrap19 said:


> Is Kenwood KA-7100 a good AMP? Anyone have an experience with it?


 

 I have no direct experience with this amp.  Just many vintage in general.
  
 HiFi Engine has the following:
  
  

  
 The schematics show 220 ohm resistors on the headphone out.  Should work fine with planar and most higher ohm headphones.
  
 Your millage may vary with lower ohm phones and even some with higher ohm ratings.
  
 I find that synergy (source, amp, phones, etc & ears) plays a large part of wheither you will like a specific headphone paring with any amp/system.
  
 I am sure that the amp will sound good with some phones, just do not expect a specific outcome.
  
 You can get a new low ohm output headphone amp, that in theory, will pair with a larger assortment of phones.  BUT, you will miss the magic of a vintage amp.
  
 JMTC,
 r2
  
 Edit:  With the 7100 you may use the Aux, Tuner or either of the tape play connections as the input for your DAC or Computer.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Darn it. Someone bought it. e_e


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Darn it. Someone bought it. e_e


 
 There are lots of good amps and receivers you can get for 300.00. Did you have a particular attachment to that Kenwood,or was it the first thing that caught your eye?


----------



## iliketowrap19

It was the first that caught my eye. Other recommendations would be appreciated. Was set on the Kenwood because it had free shipping and was cheaper than the others. Also, the owner lives near where my dorm building is.


----------



## jnorris

I owned the KA-7100 back when it was new.  It was a nice, if somewhat unremarkable, piece.  I soon traded it in for a KA-9100.  That one was the monster.  That price was too high for a unit that old - unless it's been through a major re-cap and cleaning.
  
 I also owned a Mac 1900 receiver up until last September when I sold it for the princely sum of $300 - only because it was a MacIntosh and it still worked and it had the wood cabinet.  It needed new caps and a good going over and I didn't like it enough to put that kind of money into it.  It sounded great - magical almost through vintage Celestion SL6si speakers - but it's main use was for headphones and it buzzed a little too much through the 'phones.  I tried using it as a phono preamp, but it's age really showed there.  I paid $100 for it at a tag sale


----------



## trivium911

Has anyone heard of Nikko? I just picked up a Na-100 and it sounds pretty decent with 110 watts per channel most 100 watt rated.bookshelf speakers start to distort at 60% volume. Much louder than anyone would want of course...unless you were outside. I also picked up a technics su-v707 receiver which i ended up dropping while i was work on it :mad:. Needless to say i cracked the tuner circuit board...i have since traced by hand mind you a new pcb in photoshop based on the terrible service manual...just waiting on ferric chloride and copper pcb boards to show up.


----------



## OldRoadToad

iliketowrap19 said:


> Darn it. Someone bought it. e_e


 

 There will be more opportunities, my friend.
  
  
 ORT


----------



## SpeakerBox

vapman said:


> Its one of the few power amps I would EVER consider using instead of my Hafler DH 500.


 
  
 The KSA 50 is widely regarded as one of the best ever!


----------



## joehalo

Pioneer SA-9100


----------



## Oregonian

Garage system (Pioneer SA-9900 110wpc fed by iPad 2 through a NuForce iDo DAC or the vintage Yamaha CD player) driving Cerwin Vega DX-3's (refoamed) along with a 8" Energy sub from the B speaker taps...................thump city.


----------



## r2muchstuff

joehalo said:


> Pioneer SA-9100


 

 One of the greats.
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

oregonian said:


> Garage system (Pioneer SA-9900 110wpc fed by iPad 2 through a NuForce iDo DAC or the vintage Yamaha CD player) driving Cerwin Vega DX-3's (refoamed) along with a 8" Energy sub from the B speaker taps...................thump city.


 

 Another of the greats.
  
 r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

I know tone controls create much pro and con discussion however, the two previous Pioneer TOLs have a very nice implementation.  Two level controls for each bass and treble verses most of the the lower down the line and late 70s amps that use a turnover and tone control arrangement or simple bass / treble controls.
  
 The sweet SA 8500 60w/ch, the SA 9500 II and the Spec One Pre Amp use this implementation also.
  
 JMTC,
 r2


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> I know tone controls create much pro and con discussion however, the two previous Pioneer TOLs have a very nice implementation.  Two level controls for each bass and treble verses most of the the lower down the line and late 70s amps that use a turnover and tone control arrangement or simple bass / treble controls.
> 
> The sweet SA 8500 60w/ch, the SA 9500 II and the Spec One Pre Amp use this implementation also.
> 
> ...


 
 Have noticed the double bass/treble tone on some models...I would think they would be much more effective than the single tone...I am quite fond of cutting 200-250hz especially for metal.


----------



## OldRoadToad

r2muchstuff said:


> I know tone controls create much pro and con discussion however, the two previous Pioneer TOLs have a very nice implementation.  Two level controls for each bass and treble verses most of the the lower down the line and late 70s amps that use a turnover and tone control arrangement or simple bass / treble controls.
> 
> The sweet SA 8500 60w/ch, the SA 9500 II and the Spec One Pre Amp use this implementation also.
> 
> ...


 
 The joy, nah...the essence of the beauty of vintage equipment so equipped is that you can use the controls....or not.
  
 Regard less, the music put forth by these ancient beasties is wondrous indeed.
  
 ORT


----------



## Oregonian

Here's system #3 used in my home office................Kenwood KA-5700 (my very first vintage amp that started this obsession) - 40 wpc fed by the Yoga2 laptop via a FiiO E-10 DAC into a nice set of CA 2.1 speakers (w/6" sub) via a Scosche line out controller.


----------



## jaywillin

oregonian said:


> Here's system #3 used in my home office................Kenwood KA-5700 (my very first vintage amp that started this obsession) - 40 wpc fed by the Yoga2 laptop via a FiiO E-10 DAC into a nice set of CA 2.1 speakers (w/6" sub) via a Scosche line out controller.


 
 the 5700 is on my radar as a possible amp to start a second system.
 are you a fan of the little fiio e10 too ??


----------



## Oregonian

jaywillin said:


> the 5700 is on my radar as a possible amp to start a second system.
> are you a fan of the little fiio e10 too ??


 

 It's a decent little DAC - the reason I don't upgrade it is this home office system doesn't get a lot of use (it's in the same room as my main Pioneer Spec system that I listen to 95% of the time) and honestly it does sound pretty darn good.  May upgrade it to a Schiit Modi multibit soon but we shall see.


----------



## jaywillin

oregonian said:


> It's a decent little DAC - the reason I don't upgrade it is this home office system doesn't get a lot of use (it's in the same room as my main Pioneer Spec system that I listen to 95% of the time) and honestly it does sound pretty darn good.  May upgrade it to a Schiit Modi multibit soon but we shall see.


 
 i've got a modi 1 hooked up to the marantz right now, i picked it up for $60
 the e10 was the first dac/ amp i ever got, it started the ball rolling for me, and my wallet hasn't been the same since !


----------



## OldRoadToad

Gentlemen (gentlepeople? LOL!) -
  
 Stop me before I buy again!!!
  
 There is a gorgeous Pioneer SX9000 available near me....Aaaaaaaaagh!  I think I should get if for a relative...Yeah.  That's it!  A relative...Morgan Fairchild is my...my sister!  Yeah...My sisssster.  That's it.  My baby sister needs a new vintage receiver...
  

  
  
 ORT


----------



## jaywillin

first it was headphones, now i'm afraid it's receivers ! 
 just picked up a H/K 330c today, in EXCELLENT condition


----------



## Oregonian

jaywillin said:


> first it was headphones, now i'm afraid it's receivers !
> just picked up a H/K 330c today, in EXCELLENT condition


 
 I hear ya.............bought my first vintage amp and thought that was it..............nope.  Own 9 of them now.  All but one in use - that much I can say!


----------



## Monsterzero

Ha...I just picked up,less than five minutes ago *the sexiest receiver ever made *(at least in the Top 5)

 Been checking that auction site every hour for the last month...finally today!


----------



## jaywillin

monsterzero said:


> Ha...I just picked up,less than five minutes ago *the sexiest receiver ever made *(at least in the Top 5)
> 
> Been checking that auction site every hour for the last month...finally today!


----------



## Monsterzero

jaywillin said:


> first it was headphones, now i'm afraid it's receivers !
> just picked up a H/K 330c today, in EXCELLENT condition


 
 How does it sound vs. your Marantz?


----------



## jaywillin

monsterzero said:


> How does it sound vs. your Marantz?


 
 the immediate first impression was cleaner, more neutral i guess, the marantz has a warmth to it, a lushness, where the h/k seems more precise, rhythmic if that makes sense
 i really haven't had enough time to get a real sense of what i'm hearing, just need to get some more listening time
 i can say for sure that i'm impressed, the tuner is very good, better than the 2216.
 i may send the marantz off to get professionally checked out. i cleaned it up, but i know nothing about the electrical , mechanical side


----------



## OldRoadToad

jaywillin said:


> first it was headphones, now i'm afraid it's receivers !
> just picked up a H/K 330c today, in EXCELLENT condition


 
  
  
 A thing of beauty and class, is a joy for ever.  Well done indeed!
  
 ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

oregonian said:


> I hear ya.............bought my first vintage amp and thought that was it..............nope.  Own 9 of them now.  All but one in use - that much I can say!


 

 Gorgeous.  Stunning. Incredible.  Bitchin' and **** to the max.
  
 Excellente'!
  
 El Toado Verde


----------



## jaywillin

Thank you kind sirs !
Now, need to do something about speakers, any ideas ?
Budget tops out around $200


----------



## Monsterzero

jaywillin said:


> Thank you kind sirs !
> Now, need to do something about speakers, any ideas ?
> Budget tops out around $200


 
 New or vintage?


----------



## jaywillin

monsterzero said:


> New or vintage?



I'm not sure really, right now I have a pair of JBL 2500 hooked up to the marantz, 
How about"semi" vintage , something from the 80's or 90's


----------



## headphones1999

I think you need to tell what you got available at your area, then we will be able to tell you what you what is worth grabbing


----------



## jnorris

The '80's or '90's were not good years for vintage equipment.  Stay away from it.  The late '70's is the period that most of the revered equipment came from.


----------



## jaywillin

pickin's are slim here, kinda hit and miss. size is also a factor
  
 here my choices are a pair of jbl L60t's, and allison cd-7's
 they are about is big as i can go, i'd really like to find a bookshelf speaker
 i've been doing a lot of research, and checking ebay out, i'm really interested in the design acoustics ps series
 i like polk, maybe a monitor 5 or 7
 or maybe go with something like an older model B&W, wafferdale, mission, something along those lines
 i'll figure something out , and half the fun is the hunt anyway


----------



## Hutnicks

jaywillin said:


> pickin's are slim here, kinda hit and miss. size is also a factor
> 
> here my choices are a pair of jbl L60t's, and allison cd-7's
> they are about is big as i can go, i'd really like to find a bookshelf speaker
> ...


 

 For a bookshelf look around for a pair of Royd Eden or Sintra's.


----------



## SirMarc

jaywillin said:


> I'm not sure really, right now I have a pair of JBL 2500 hooked up to the marantz,
> How about"semi" vintage , something from the 80's or 90's



For new, I'd recommend checking out the Elac Debut B5 or B6. Good luck


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> For new, I'd recommend checking out the Elac Debut B5 or B6. Good luck


 
 Never heard an Elac speaker before so correct me if im wrong,but arent they known for having a warm sound w/ rolled off highs?Might be a bit too warm w/ Marantz?

 I have the Andrew Jones designed Pioneers and they def have a warm sound to them.


----------



## jaywillin

sirmarc said:


> For new, I'd recommend checking out the Elac Debut B5 or B6. Good luck


 
 i'd thought about them, getting something newer would definitely have advantages


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Never heard an Elac speaker before so correct me if im wrong,but arent they known for having a warm sound w/ rolled off highs?Might be a bit too warm w/ Marantz?
> 
> 
> I have the Andrew Jones designed Pioneers and they def have a warm sound to them.



I'm using the Elac Unify UB5's with my Sansui 9090 and wouldn't say they're rolled off at all. These things are mind blowingly good for the money.

I haven't heard the Debut series myself, but they're supposed to sound similar but not quite as refined. I'd recommend these, but they need more power than his receivers have. They're only 85db efficiency and 4 ohms


----------



## SpeakerBox

jaywillin said:


> first it was headphones, now i'm afraid it's receivers !
> just picked up a H/K 330c today, in EXCELLENT condition


 
  
 I have the HK 330A (near mint with wood case).   I recapped it and replaced the output transistors.  It sounds absolutely fantastic with my MDR-7506 and MDR-V6 HPs.  Way better than any Marantz I have heard.  Added bonus (nostalgia) is that it is what I had when I was 17 (never should have got rid of it).


----------



## SX3900

jnorris said:


> The '80's or '90's were not good years for vintage equipment.  Stay away from it.  The late '70's is the period that most of the revered equipment came from.


 

 That is not true.
 Own AR & NHT & Advent speakers that sound excellent hooked up to the SX-3800 / SX-3900. These speakers were manufactured in the in the early 90's.
  
 Also, try Pioneer VSX-D1S receiver made in 1990, in stereo mode pulls 130 watts per channel all day long. It's a revised SX-3900 receiver. Uses the same power transformer that is found in the SX-1080/SX-3900.


----------



## jnorris

Unfortunately, it is true.  I can't speak authoritatively to the speakers since they are so varied sounding and there is so much personal preference at play, but having sold both AR and Advent back in their heyday, I can say I wasn't a fan - except for double Advents - that was special!
  
 Pioneers, Kenwoods and their ilk from the late '80's up were designed to cram as many features as possible into a box at a specific price point.  Sound quality was secondary.  As a matter of fact, very soon after that most manufacturers switched to the awful Sanyo STK module amps, driving audio quality straight off a cliff.
  
 Having looked over the schematics, the VSX-D1S is categorically not a revised SX-3900.  The VSX line is heavily IC based with massive use of CMOS switching, multiple DSPs and video circuitry, while the 3900 is clearly a more audio-conscientious design - right down to the discrete transistors in its phono preamp. The VSX is probably OK for what it is, but it is not the kind of quality that is normally found true vintage equipment.


----------



## Hutnicks

jnorris said:


> Unfortunately, it is true.  I can't speak authoritatively to the speakers since they are so varied sounding and there is so much personal preference at play, but having sold both AR and Advent back in their heyday, I can say I wasn't a fan - except for double Advents - that was special!
> 
> Pioneers, Kenwoods and their ilk from the late '80's up were designed to cram as many features as possible into a box at a specific price point.  Sound quality was secondary.  As a matter of fact, very soon after that most manufacturers switched to the awful Sanyo STK module amps, driving audio quality straight off a cliff.
> 
> Having looked over the schematics, the VSX-D1S is categorically not a revised SX-3900.  The VSX line is heavily IC based with massive use of CMOS switching, multiple DSPs and video circuitry, while the 3900 is clearly a more audio-conscientious design - right down to the discrete transistors in its phono preamp. The VSX is probably OK for what it is, but it is not the kind of quality that is normally found true vintage equipment.


 

 The standout there in the 80's were the Kyocera MosFet units which were coming in offering the performance that was waning from the big names.


----------



## BucketInABucket

speakerbox said:


> I have the HK 330A (near mint with wood case).   I recapped it and replaced the output transistors.  It sounds absolutely fantastic with my MDR-7506 and MDR-V6 HPs.  Way better than any Marantz I have heard.  Added bonus (nostalgia) is that it is what I had when I was 17 (never should have got rid of it).


 

 HK 930 owner here, not quite a 330 but it's such an amazing clean-sounding receiver!
  
 Still an unashamed fanboy of the Sony STR-6060FW though.


----------



## SX3900

jnorris said:


> Unfortunately, it is true.  I can't speak authoritatively to the speakers since they are so varied sounding and there is so much personal preference at play, but having sold both AR and Advent back in their heyday, I can say I wasn't a fan - except for double Advents - that was special!
> 
> Pioneers, Kenwoods and their ilk from the late '80's up were designed to cram as many features as possible into a box at a specific price point.  Sound quality was secondary.  As a matter of fact, very soon after that most manufacturers switched to the awful Sanyo STK module amps, driving audio quality straight off a cliff.
> 
> Having looked over the schematics, the VSX-D1S is categorically not a revised SX-3900.  The VSX line is heavily IC based with massive use of CMOS switching, multiple DSPs and video circuitry, while the 3900 is clearly a more audio-conscientious design - right down to the discrete transistors in its phono preamp. The VSX is probably OK for what it is, but it is not the kind of quality that is normally found true vintage equipment.


 

 So you are saying that the "non-switching" amp section found in the SX-3900, SX-D5000, SX-D7000,  SA-8800, & VSX-D1S are not good?
 Please explain.....


----------



## Monsterzero

Im certainly no electronics expert,but I have read very good things about the NAD 7600,which was built in 1987.

 Id be tempted to pick one up,except its so damn ugly


----------



## jaywillin

i've been thinking about what i want to do speaker wise , i think i'll set a limit of $125, including shipping if needed,
 both receivers i picked up for less than that, well the marantz's shipping pushed it over that limit, but i think i should be 
 able to get something pretty decent for that , may be fun trying


----------



## Monsterzero

jaywillin said:


> i've been thinking about what i want to do speaker wise , i think i'll set a limit of $125, including shipping if needed,
> both receivers i picked up for less than that, well the marantz's shipping pushed it over that limit, but i think i should be
> able to get something pretty decent for that , may be fun trying


 
these come close or under your budget...warm,non fatiguing sound.


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> these come close or under your budget...warm,non fatiguing sound.


 
  
 ELAC has some good stuff around that price range too - also Andrew Jones designs.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bucketinabucket said:


> HK 930 owner here, not quite a 330 but it's such an amazing clean-sounding receiver!


 
  
 Mine sounds very clean also, albeit not as powerful as yours.  I find it sounds very good with lower impedance HPs (like the ~60 ohm MDR-7506).  Not as good with my 300 ohm HD600s (not bad at all though).


----------



## BucketInABucket

speakerbox said:


> Mine sounds very clean also, albeit not as powerful as yours.  I find it sounds very good with lower impedance HPs (like the ~60 ohm MDR-7506).  Not as good with my 300 ohm HD600s (not bad at all though).


 
 I have mine hooked up to a pair of KEF 104aBs in the living room and they sound so damn beautiful it's almost unbelieveable.


----------



## Oregonian

jaywillin said:


> i've been thinking about what i want to do speaker wise , i think i'll set a limit of $125, including shipping if needed,
> both receivers i picked up for less than that, well the marantz's shipping pushed it over that limit, but i think i should be
> able to get something pretty decent for that , may be fun trying


 
 I went with vintage speakers - first a pair of DX-3 Cerwin Vegas (refoamed woofers) and a nice pair of Klipsch 3.2's..............no, they are far from high end but I paid $40 for the CV's and traded a nice pair of Wharfedale bookshelf speakers for the Klipsch speakers.  Both speakers are being used regularly and sound fantastic from both systems - the Klipsch hooked to the Spec 1/2 system and the CV off the SA-9900 in the garage system.  Point is your budget should get you something quite good sounding.  Craigslist is your friend on these items since most guys won't want to ship speakers.


----------



## jaywillin

monsterzero said:


> these come close or under your budget...warm,non fatiguing sound.


 
  
  


speakerbox said:


> ELAC has some good stuff around that price range too - also Andrew Jones designs.


 
for a new speaker, the pioneer is right at the top of the list 
  
as for elac, the b4 at $ while not expensive, and a possibility , is $179, and then that gets me thinking why not spend a few more dollars and go b5
  
 i'm sure my "plan will change several times before it's all said a done


----------



## jaywillin

oregonian said:


> I went with vintage speakers - first a pair of DX-3 Cerwin Vegas (refoamed woofers) and a nice pair of Klipsch 3.2's..............no, they are far from high end but I paid $40 for the CV's and traded a nice pair of Wharfedale bookshelf speakers for the Klipsch speakers.  Both speakers are being used regularly and sound fantastic from both systems - the Klipsch hooked to the Spec 1/2 system and the CV off the SA-9900 in the garage system.  Point is your budget should get you something quite good sounding.  Craigslist is your friend on these items since most guys won't want to ship speakers.


 
 oh i'm keeping my eyes peeled for sure, 
 and i would like to get something vintage, or maybe close to vintage, and then maybe have something newish too, one can never have too much gear !


----------



## headphones1999

Lets see if anyone can guess what i just got :3


----------



## PhoenixG

bucketinabucket said:


> HK 930 owner here, not quite a 330 but it's such an amazing clean-sounding receiver!
> 
> Still an unashamed fanboy of the Sony STR-6060FW though.


 
 I'm a HUGE fan of that model line! They're a PITA to come by, but worth it when you find them. The 6060, 6120, and 6200 are all end game units (with minor variations in voicing) that seek to match mcintosh voicing and build quality of the time they were built. They are 99.9% as good as the best amps I've ever listened to, and I use them as (very pleasant) hot swaps when my main rig is out for repairs.
 I have modified mine slightly - one got a beefier power supply, the other was recapped, but nothing that changed their sonic character.
 I highly recommend those three SONY models to anyone looking to short circuit the vintage trade up game and start with a reliable, infinitely repairable, near flawless, well built amp, that competes well above its $200-700 price tag.


----------



## SpeakerBox

bucketinabucket said:


> I have mine hooked up to a pair of KEF 104aBs in the living room and they sound so damn beautiful it's almost unbelieveable.


 
  
 Mine is strictly used as a head amp right now and resides on my night stand - listen to it every night at bed time.  I do remember my original one sounding quite good with audio analyst speakers back in the 70s though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jaywillin said:


> for a new speaker, the pioneer is right at the top of the list
> 
> as for elac, the b4 at $ while not expensive, and a possibility , is $179, and then that gets me thinking why not spend a few more dollars and go b5
> 
> i'm sure my "plan will change several times before it's all said a done


 
  
 I have a pair of B5s used as the fronts in my 7.2 HT setup.  They sound very nice.


----------



## Monsterzero

Speaking of speakers...

 Anyone here have experience with Rectilinear III Highboys and/or Lowboys?

 Im looking to do my den in full on retro furnishings and want the sound to match.I think im preferring the East Coast sound and these speakers often come up.

 Thoughts?


----------



## Little Bear

147jk said:


> Have restored several Marantz and Sansui receivers.  I currently use a Sansui 2000X as my "speaker amp".  People say it sounds like a tube amp, but I can't say because I've never heard a tube amp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Sorry for digging this 3 year old post up from the grave, but I'm curious where I can learn how to restore stuff like this.  I used to have a big Pioneer SX-something receiver with fluoroscan meters that I dearly miss.  But I was thinking that buying old gear and spiffing them up would be a hoot.  Does it take an EE degree or years of experience to be able to do it, or can a regular guy like me learn how to do it without a huge commitment in time or money?  Where does one start?  Are there any good books or online sources of info?  Is it really "easy and fun" like 147JK says?


----------



## Oregonian

little bear said:


> Sorry for digging this 3 year old post up from the grave, but I'm curious where I can learn how to restore stuff like this.  I used to have a big Pioneer SX-something receiver with fluoroscan meters that I dearly miss.  But I was thinking that buying old gear and spiffing them up would be a hoot.  Does it take an EE degree or years of experience to be able to do it, or can a regular guy like me learn how to do it without a huge commitment in time or money?  Where does one start?  Are there any good books or online sources of info?  Is it really "easy and fun" like 147JK says?


 
 I'd join Audiokarma and learn from the guys there - there are a number of techs who are members who freely offer advice on recapping items, even providing part number lists.


----------



## jnorris

If all you're going to do is recap, you'll need a good understanding of capacitor values and replacement options, but you'll also need excellent soldering skills and good soldering equipment.  Many of the old boards have a coating on them to prevent deterioration of the traces so you have to burn through that to get to the actual solder joint.  Once there you have to apply sufficient heat to melt the old solder without burning the trace and (gulp!) lifting it off the board (been there, done that, got the refrigerator magnet).


----------



## SX3900

little bear said:


> Sorry for digging this 3 year old post up from the grave, but I'm curious where I can learn how to restore stuff like this.  I used to have a big Pioneer SX-something receiver with fluoroscan meters that I dearly miss.  But I was thinking that buying old gear and spiffing them up would be a hoot.  Does it take an EE degree or years of experience to be able to do it, or can a regular guy like me learn how to do it without a huge commitment in time or money?  Where does one start?  Are there any good books or online sources of info?  Is it really "easy and fun" like 147JK says?


 
 fluoroscan meters, could be SX-3700 (45 watts), SX-3800 (60 watts), SX-3900  (120 watts) SX-D5000/SX-D7000 (60/120 watts). Last fall the  SX-3900 was going as high as $1400 on feabay...


----------



## Monsterzero

OK,my new baby just arrived.
 Kenwood Eleven GX....Look at the size of this thing!!!
 Thats a Magni Uber 2 on top for reference.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> OK,my new baby just arrived.
> 
> Kenwood Eleven GX....Look at the size of this thing!!!
> 
> Thats a Magni Uber 2 on top for reference.



Nice! The mid 70's Kenwoods are the best looking vintage receivers out there. Have fun


----------



## BucketInABucket

phoenixg said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of that model line! They're a PITA to come by, but worth it when you find them. The 6060, 6120, and 6200 are all end game units (with minor variations in voicing) that seek to match mcintosh voicing and build quality of the time they were built. They are 99.9% as good as the best amps I've ever listened to, and I use them as (very pleasant) hot swaps when my main rig is out for repairs.
> I have modified mine slightly - one got a beefier power supply, the other was recapped, but nothing that changed their sonic character.
> I highly recommend those three SONY models to anyone looking to short circuit the vintage trade up game and start with a reliable, infinitely repairable, near flawless, well built amp, that competes well above its $200-700 price tag.


 
 Hell yeah, mine is so good even though it's not even recapped! The only thing I did is replace the old lamps with new LED ones. The colours don't quite match but hey!
  

  
 I kind of want a 6120 too but I can't really justify it when I have a whole heap of other receivers I don't use...


----------



## Monsterzero

sirmarc said:


> Nice! The mid 70's Kenwoods are the best looking vintage receivers out there. Have fun


 
 Agree 100%...I read mixed reports about the sound of the Kenwoods,but the looks are what got me hooked.Its right up there w/ the Sansui QRX9001 in the eye candy dept.

 It def has a more detailed airier sound than my Sansuis,similar to my Onkyo TX6500 mk2


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Agree 100%...I read mixed reports about the sound of the Kenwoods,but the looks are what got me hooked.Its right up there w/ the Sansui QRX9001 in the eye candy dept.
> 
> 
> It def has a more detailed airier sound than my Sansuis,similar to my Onkyo TX6500 mk2



I have a KR-7600 that sounds really good, but it doesn't have the soundstage width and depth that my Sansui 9090 does. Its going to go into a second system with a Technics turntable, an Aune T1 dac and either Infinity RS5's or maybe a pair of Elac B6's


----------



## Little Bear

sx3900 said:


> fluoroscan meters, could be SX-3700 (45 watts), SX-3800 (60 watts), SX-3900  (120 watts) SX-D5000/SX-D7000 (60/120 watts). Last fall the  SX-3900 was going as high as $1400 on feabay...


 
  
 SX-3800 rings a bell...it was 20 years ago.  At the same time I also had a reel-to-reel Pioneer tape deck and Pioneer cassette deck, all approximately the same vintage and all with fluoroscans.  They made a pretty show in a dark room.


----------



## Little Bear

oregonian said:


> I'd join Audiokarma and learn from the guys there - there are a number of techs who are members who freely offer advice on recapping items, even providing part number lists.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice.  I'll start there and see where it goes.


----------



## Little Bear

jnorris said:


> If all you're going to do is recap, you'll need a good understanding of capacitor values and replacement options, but you'll also need excellent soldering skills and good soldering equipment.  Many of the old boards have a coating on them to prevent deterioration of the traces so you have to burn through that to get to the actual solder joint.  Once there you have to apply sufficient heat to melt the old solder without burning the trace and (gulp!) lifting it off the board (been there, done that, got the refrigerator magnet).


 
  
 I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, but probably not adept enough to give it a go on expensive gear without some practice.  I was thinking about not just that though, also stuff like replacing knobs and switches (are these parts hard to come by?), refinishing wood cabinets, front glass replacement, VU or fluoroscan meters, etc.  The whole works.  Come to think of it, I may be getting in over my head....


----------



## Monsterzero

little bear said:


> I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, but probably not adept enough to give it a go on expensive gear without some practice.  I was thinking about not just that though, also stuff like replacing knobs and switches (are these parts hard to come by?), refinishing wood cabinets, front glass replacement, VU or fluoroscan meters, etc.  The whole works.  *Come to think of it, I may be getting in over my head....*


 
 lol

 AK is indeed a great resource of info on vintage gear...i do a lot of reading there,and have asked advice in the past,and it is to vintage gear what this site is to headphones.
 If I were you Id pick up a low watt beater on eBay for a few bucks and start messing around on that,that way if you screw up its no big loss.


----------



## jnorris

little bear said:


> I'm fairly handy with a soldering iron, but probably not adept enough to give it a go on expensive gear without some practice.  I was thinking about not just that though, also stuff like replacing knobs and switches (are these parts hard to come by?), refinishing wood cabinets, front glass replacement, VU or fluoroscan meters, etc.  The whole works.  Come to think of it, I may be getting in over my head....


 
 Knobs, switches, cabinets, glass and meters may be difficult to come by at reasonable prices since they tend to be custom made parts.  I guess it depends on your level of dedication.  Some of the older Japanese stuff doesn't come apart easily, either.  Think 3D jigsaw puzzle.  Monsterzero is right though, get an inexpensive piece to try your hand on and see if the bug bites you.


----------



## jaywillin

uh oh, i've picked up a hum/buzz in the h/k 330c, it's constant, doesn't fluctuate with the volume, just steady, loud enough to be heard over the music on quieter passages
 even more noticeable through the headphone jack






 
  
 UPDATE :
 must be the dreaded ground loop hum ? 
 i'd moved the receiver up to where the computer is, and that's where i noticed the hum, i moved it back to 
 my mancave/work room, and it's fine, grrrrr
 the marantz was fine up here, sometimes electricity(wiring) is irritating


----------



## PhoenixG

jnorris said:


> Knobs, switches, cabinets, glass and meters may be difficult to come by at reasonable prices since they tend to be custom made parts.  I guess it depends on your level of dedication.  Some of the older Japanese stuff doesn't come apart easily, either.  Think 3D jigsaw puzzle.  Monsterzero is right though, get an inexpensive piece to try your hand on and see if the bug bites you.


 
 Yeah, it' can be a real pain to find parts. Often, it takes months of dedicated searching to find knobs, switches, tidbits, speaker drivers... Further, a part that is broken on your unit is often broken on many units, and thus doubly hard to come by from a donor unit. For parts that only ever existed on one unit, it can take years or be impossible to get one. Think output power packs, unobtanium IC's, transformers. Then you have to do your best to replace the part in question and that takes judgement.
 Most people who have been doing this a while have the ability to do simple redesigns to work around irreplaceable parts and a small army of niche suppliers who can refabricate glass, knobs, PCB boards, anything. That level of quality in fabrication is pricey and time consuming to do right.
 That isn't meant to scare you off. It is possible to get into it as a hobby without too much stress and do a great job. If you want to try your hand, definitely start small and simple.... and maybe pick a unit that doesn't need cosmetic work or that already works.


----------



## jnorris

jaywillin said:


> uh oh, i've picked up a hum/buzz in the h/k 330c, it's constant, doesn't fluctuate with the volume, just steady, loud enough to be heard over the music on quieter passages
> even more noticeable through the headphone jack
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Poor shielding on the HK.  Not surprising - computers probably weren't even around when it was designed!  Unfortunately, I've tried a number of fixes to no avail.  Sometimes reversing the plug in the AC socket helps, but it's a long shot.


----------



## jaywillin

jnorris said:


> Poor shielding on the HK.  Not surprising - computers probably weren't even around when it was designed!  Unfortunately, I've tried a number of fixes to no avail.  Sometimes reversing the plug in the AC socket helps, but it's a long shot.



Didn't think about shielding, makes sense


----------



## OldRoadToad

phoenixg said:


> I'm a HUGE fan of that model line! They're a PITA to come by, but worth it when you find them. The 6060, 6120, and 6200 are all end game units (with minor variations in voicing) that seek to match mcintosh voicing and build quality of the time they were built. They are 99.9% as good as the best amps I've ever listened to, and I use them as (very pleasant) hot swaps when my main rig is out for repairs.
> I have modified mine slightly - one got a beefier power supply, the other was recapped, but nothing that changed their sonic character.
> I highly recommend those three SONY models to anyone looking to short circuit the vintage trade up game and start with a reliable, infinitely repairable, near flawless, well built amp, that competes well above its $200-700 price tag.


 

 Nice.  I am enjoying my STR-6800SD. It too is a beauty.
  
 ORT


----------



## SX3900

little bear said:


> SX-3800 rings a bell...it was 20 years ago.  At the same time I also had a reel-to-reel Pioneer tape deck and Pioneer cassette deck, all approximately the same vintage and all with fluoroscans.  They made a pretty show in a dark room.


 

 Yes, the SX-3800, its my first receiver I bought just right after high school. I still have her. Yes the blue light show is amazing...


----------



## Little Bear

Are most of you guys using headphones with your vintage gear?  I spent a couple of hours last night combing through the ebay vintage electronics listings, and drooling over a lot of what I saw.  There's a gorgeous Pioneer SX-1980 with a $4,700 price tag, and a couple of SX-1250's for $1,500 or so.  They're gargantuan.  But I also lusted after quite a few mid-70's SX-6xx/7xx/8xx/9xx examples that looked nice, and was wondering if their headphone outputs would make a good pairing with very revealing headphones like planar magnetics.  Any thoughts?  I also took a look at a few Marantz ones and am wondering about those too.
  
 Maybe a more concise question is, what vintage receivers or integrated amps under a grand or so have nice sounding headphone outs?


----------



## Monsterzero

Most,if not all will work. The only receiver that I own that leaves me wanting more is my Marantz 2226b.

 The different companies back then had a house sound..some were warmer sounding(Marantz,Sansui) and then some were more detailed (Pioneer,Onkyo) But even then my two Sansuis do not sound identical.


----------



## Oregonian

little bear said:


> Are most of you guys using headphones with your vintage gear?  I spent a couple of hours last night combing through the ebay vintage electronics listings, and drooling over a lot of what I saw.  There's a gorgeous Pioneer SX-1980 with a $4,700 price tag, and a couple of SX-1250's for $1,500 or so.  They're gargantuan.  But I also lusted after quite a few mid-70's SX-6xx/7xx/8xx/9xx examples that looked nice, and was wondering if their headphone outputs would make a good pairing with very revealing headphones like planar magnetics.  Any thoughts?  I also took a look at a few Marantz ones and am wondering about those too.
> 
> Maybe a more concise question is, what vintage receivers or integrated amps under a grand or so have nice sounding headphone outs?


 

 I'm a Pioneer fanboy and have 6 of their vintage amps/receivers.  Well, scratch that, I sold the SX-1050 to help finance my Pioneer SE Master 1 (WORTH it!) but to answer your question - all the time.  I use my Spec system for headphones about 90% of the time and just the 10% with my Klipsch speakers.  It's my main listening location - two others are exclusively headphones and three others are hybrids.  You don't need a lot of power to drive most headphones (with the exception of the HE-6, which may or may not sound as good from a 20wpc amp as it does out of a 250wpc powerhouse - my experience was the beefier amps have more depth and visceral meat to the bass) so your budget can be reasonable.  I paid $240 for my SA-8800 (80 wpc flouroscan amp) and $300 for my SA-9900 (110 wpc) amp.  Oh, and planars and vintage go together like PB&J...............


----------



## Monsterzero

oregonian said:


> I'm a Pioneer fanboy and have 6 of their vintage amps/receivers.  Well, scratch that, I sold the SX-1050 to help finance my Pioneer SE Master 1 (WORTH it!) but to answer your question - all the time.  I use my Spec system for headphones about 90% of the time and just the 10% with my Klipsch speakers.  It's my main listening location - two others are exclusively headphones and three others are hybrids.  You don't need a lot of power to drive most headphones (with the exception of the HE-6, which may or may not sound as good from a 20wpc amp as it does out of a 250wpc powerhouse - my experience was the beefier amps have more depth and visceral meat to the bass) so your budget can be reasonable.  I paid $240 for my SA-8800 (80 wpc flouroscan amp) and $300 for my SA-9900 (110 wpc) amp.  *Oh, and planars and vintage go together like PB&J...............*


 
 +1


----------



## Little Bear

oregonian said:


> Oh, and planars and vintage go together like PB&J...............


 
  
 Oh nooooo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I can tell that hanging out here is going to be very bad for my finances!  Time to look for a second job.  Or maybe I could sell my car and ride a bike...


----------



## SX3900

little bear said:


> Are most of you guys using headphones with your vintage gear?  I spent a couple of hours last night combing through the ebay vintage electronics listings, and drooling over a lot of what I saw.  There's a gorgeous Pioneer SX-1980 with a $4,700 price tag, and a couple of SX-1250's for $1,500 or so.  They're gargantuan.  But I also lusted after quite a few mid-70's SX-6xx/7xx/8xx/9xx examples that looked nice, and was wondering if their headphone outputs would make a good pairing with very revealing headphones like planar magnetics.  Any thoughts?  I also took a look at a few Marantz ones and am wondering about those too.
> 
> Maybe a more concise question is, what vintage receivers or integrated amps under a grand or so have nice sounding headphone outs?


 

 Try something like SX-780 / SX-3700 (45-Watts) under $200, then go from there. You do not need that much wattage. Even a 20 - 30 watt range receiver like SX-680 would be good to start with.
 Good Luck......


----------



## SpeakerBox

little bear said:


> Oh nooooo
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a Pioneer SX-1250 (restored).  It is the best HP amp I have heard.  Especially with HD600s.


----------



## Rossliew

oregonian said:


> I'm a Pioneer fanboy and have 6 of their vintage amps/receivers.  Well, scratch that, I sold the SX-1050 to help finance my Pioneer SE Master 1 (WORTH it!) but to answer your question - all the time.  I use my Spec system for headphones about 90% of the time and just the 10% with my Klipsch speakers.  It's my main listening location - two others are exclusively headphones and three others are hybrids.  You don't need a lot of power to drive most headphones (with the exception of the HE-6, which may or may not sound as good from a 20wpc amp as it does out of a 250wpc powerhouse - my experience was the beefier amps have more depth and visceral meat to the bass) so your budget can be reasonable.  I paid $240 for my SA-8800 (80 wpc flouroscan amp) and $300 for my SA-9900 (110 wpc) amp.  Oh, and planars and vintage go together like PB&J...............




Somehow my high impedance headphones like T1 sounded better off my NAD3020 and lower impedance ones like Oppo PM2 didn't seem to sound that good..could it be the output impedance of my 3020 playing tricks with the headphone matching?


----------



## Little Bear

Woohoo....I bought a SX-780 on fleabay this morning for $206.  It is reportedly in excellent, super clean condition, which is corroborated by the pictures showing both the exterior and interior.  I forgot to ask the seller before bidding whether or not it's been recapped or serviced.  Once I get the unit and pull the cabinet off, is there any way I can tell just by looking whether the caps are relatively new?  Will it be obvious?  I don't think I have enough posts yet to be able to put up pics, but if it helps, here's a link to the listing where you can see what it looks like -
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-780-Excellent-/272632230608?hash=item3f7a25b2d0%3Ag%3Aoo0AAOSwj25Y8iLi&nma=true&si=rri9XUsRN4dlBZHvfVHJPqdgrLw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
  
 Any comments welcome.  Yep, I've got Deoxit at the ready...


----------



## SpeakerBox

little bear said:


> Woohoo....I bought a SX-780 on fleabay this morning for $206.  It is reportedly in excellent, super clean condition, which is corroborated by the pictures showing both the exterior and interior.  I forgot to ask the seller before bidding whether or not it's been recapped or serviced.  Once I get the unit and pull the cabinet off, is there any way I can tell just by looking whether the caps are relatively new?  Will it be obvious?  I don't think I have enough posts yet to be able to put up pics, but if it helps, here's a link to the listing where you can see what it looks like -
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-780-Excellent-/272632230608?hash=item3f7a25b2d0%3Ag%3Aoo0AAOSwj25Y8iLi&nma=true&si=rri9XUsRN4dlBZHvfVHJPqdgrLw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Any comments welcome.  Yep, I've got Deoxit at the ready...


 
  
 If there is dust on the top of the electrolytic caps it most likely has not been recapped.  You can also check the bottom of the boards for fresh solder work.  Bulging or leaking cans are also a telltale sign it still needs a recap.
  
 For $200 it probably has not been recapped.  Still a good buy though.


----------



## OldRoadToad

As the saying goes, "Style is back in style'...In truth, looks such as displayed by the style of receivers and integrated amps such as these _never_ goes out.    _That_, my friends, is class.
  
 As for being able to drive a headphone, I have never had a problem with any thing I bought.  Brand new or 40+ years old.  This does not mean I will never buy a stand alone headphone amplifier, I will when one is made that makes me want to _look_ at it as much as I want to _listen_ to music through it.
  
 ORT


----------



## penmarker

oldroadtoad said:


> As the saying goes, "Style is back in style'...In truth, looks such as displayed by the style of receivers and integrated amps such as these _never_ goes out.    _That_, my friends, is class.
> 
> As for being able to drive a headphone, I have never had a problem with any thing I bought.  Brand new or 40+ years old.  This does not mean I will never buy a stand alone headphone amplifier, I will when one is made that makes me want to _look_ at it as much as I want to _listen_ to music through it.
> 
> ORT


 

  
 How about this.
 http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=headphoneamplifiers&ProductId=MHA150


----------



## OldRoadToad

penmarker said:


> How about this.
> http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=headphoneamplifiers&ProductId=MHA150


 

 Beautiful, classic style in a modern package.  You could ask for more, but you certainly would not need it.  Very nice indeed!  Well selected, good sir!  Non-opposable toadish thumbs up!
  
 ORT


----------



## SX3900

little bear said:


> Woohoo....I bought a SX-780 on fleabay this morning for $206.  It is reportedly in excellent, super clean condition, which is corroborated by the pictures showing both the exterior and interior.  I forgot to ask the seller before bidding whether or not it's been recapped or serviced.  Once I get the unit and pull the cabinet off, is there any way I can tell just by looking whether the caps are relatively new?  Will it be obvious?  I don't think I have enough posts yet to be able to put up pics, but if it helps, here's a link to the listing where you can see what it looks like -
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-SX-780-Excellent-/272632230608?hash=item3f7a25b2d0%3Ag%3Aoo0AAOSwj25Y8iLi&nma=true&si=rri9XUsRN4dlBZHvfVHJPqdgrLw%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Any comments welcome.  Yep, I've got Deoxit at the ready...


 

 Congrats...
 Now you got the bug.


----------



## Little Bear

sx3900 said:


> Congrats...
> Now you got the bug.


 
  
 Indeed.  I just snagged a Marantz 2226b in similar condition to the 780.  I'm looking forward to cleaning and tinkering.


----------



## jaywillin (Apr 28, 2017)

good news, and bad news over update over the last couple of days here in my short journey in the vintage world
i'm having an issue with the marantz, earlier this morning, when i turned it on, the sound was very staticy, i turned it off, turned it back on, static was gone, then after a few minutes, the output faded, and had some static
turned it off, and back on, and so far it seems fine, i guess i have something going bad, but, i have no real clue
ideas ??

now on the upside , i got some some speakers , two pair, a pair of acoustic research tsw 210's, and a pair of boston acoustics hd8's, got them from a guy here locally i found on CL, he has a garage stuffed with vintage gear !


----------



## r2muchstuff (Apr 28, 2017)

jaywillin said:


> good news, and bad news over update over the last couple of days here in my short journey in the vintage world
> i'm having an issue with the marantz, earlier this morning, when i turned it on, the sound was very staticy, i turned it off, turned it back on, static was gone, then after a few minutes, the output faded, and had some static
> turned it off, and back on, and so far it seems fine, i guess i have something going bad, but, i have no real clue
> ideas ??
> ...



The HD 8 and 9 can sound really good.  The surrounds are not too difficult to replace and the tweeters are generally available on eBay.

Several years ago my younger son took a Mitsubishi DA C7 & DA A7 & matching turntable with HD9s to school with him,  everyone in his building claimed he had the best system there 

r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

On Mitsubishi -  the DA series is remarkable and often overlooked.  The DA A10 and A15 power amps punch way above many others of the late 1970s, IMHO.  They tend to be on the neutral side of sound when compared to contemporaries.

JMTC,
r2


----------



## jaywillin

r2muchstuff said:


> The HD 8 and 9 can sound really good.  The surrounds are not too difficult to replace and the tweeters are generally available on eBay.
> 
> Several years ago my younger son took a Mitsubishi DA C7 & DA A7 & matching turntable with HD9s to school with him,  everyone in his building claimed he had the best system there
> 
> r2



i like the hd8's more than the tsw210's, they are really good
i'll probably sell the 210's
oh, and the guy i bought them from has already refoamed them both, both pair are in super shape

any thoughts on the marantz's problem, it's been fine since early this morning, no static at all


----------



## r2muchstuff

jaywillin said:


> ...
> 
> any thoughts on the marantz's problem, it's been fine since early this morning, no static at all




With these old systems random stuff happens.  Sometimes, it is a bad connection through a switch or control and working them shakes it loose.  However, what you describe may also be a part failing.

I have a Pioneer SM 100 power amp that more often than not starts up with one channel out.  Letting it sit with the power on for a few minutes and then working the volume, balance, source, etc. on the SC 100 pre amp kicks it in.  Not worth chasing down, someday something may fail and it can be fixed.

My prized vintage pieces always go to the Dr. for a check up, others just get used "played with" and any broken stuff gets on a to be fixed list.  I have 2 much stuff, so a piece that breaks is not a disaster for me.

r2


----------



## jaywillin

r2muchstuff said:


> With these old systems random stuff happens.  Sometimes, it is a bad connection through a switch or control and working them shakes it loose.  However, what you describe may also be a part failing.
> 
> I have a Pioneer SM 100 power amp that more often than not starts up with one channel out.  Letting it sit with the power on for a few minutes and then working the volume, balance, source, etc. on the SC 100 pre amp kicks it in.  Not worth chasing down, someday something may fail and it can be fixed.
> 
> ...



i kinda figured something might be dying, luckily i have the H/K 330c too, and have a guy relatively near me that fixes/restores vintage gear


----------



## OldRoadToad

I think I need a vintage turntable.  Or two. Not because they "sound better" but  because some of them look better.  To me.

I "think", not "need".  Not quite up to "want". Yet.

ORT


----------



## northendjazz

Answering the call with my first Receiver incoming  a Sansui G-401. The thing has "pure power" on the front , so hoping for more power and Sansui goodness.


----------



## OldRoadToad

northendjazz said:


> Answering the call with my first Receiver incoming  a Sansui G-401. The thing has "pure power" on the front , so hoping for more power and Sansui goodness.



Well done!

I am contemplating this -






For one of my set ups.  Whether or not I get this one, I still want the Sgt. Peppers 50th 'table, all so fro Pro-Ject.

ORT


----------



## SirMarc

See if you can find a Thorens TD 160, or even better, a TD 145 which is a 160 with auto lift. They're beautiful,  sound awesome, and are built like a tank. Also very modable if you like that sort of thing.


----------



## OldRoadToad

SirMarc said:


> See if you can find a Thorens TD 160, or even better, a TD 145 which is a 160 with auto lift. They're beautiful,  sound awesome, and are built like a tank. Also very modable if you like that sort of thing.




I bought the Beatles '64.  I gave great consideration to the 50th Anniversary Sgt. Peppers 'table and in truth, may still order one so that when I am gone, both of my children can have a piece of my musical memories.

ORT


----------



## Monsterzero

The other day I was in Barnes and Noble and noticed they have a vinyl section,so I went over to check out the new vinyl offerings.
 I spotted the first Ramones album,re-issue,looked at the price tag....

70.00usd!!!!

All my thoughts of buying a TT vanished right then and there.


----------



## OldRoadToad

monsterzero said:


> The other day I was in Barnes and Noble and noticed they have a vinyl section,so I went over to check out the new vinyl offerings.
> I spotted the first Ramones album,re-issue,looked at the price tag....
> 
> 70.00usd!!!!
> ...




There are a great many fine recordings that cost far less than $70.  I could not find that one listed in vinyl at the Narnes & Boble web site.  They had it on CD.  My local N&B gas George Harrison's magnum opus, the 3 LP set of "All Things Must Pass" for $69.00. I have yet to buy it because I already have the CD.  I may still purchase it because it reminds me more of my youth and I derive a degree of pleasure from the tactile feel of a vinyl record in my hads.

If that ("The Ramones") was the only album you were truly interested in, then I can see why you would not buy a 'table.  Records in the 60s and 70s were $3.00 to $5.00, some times more.  But the wages were a lot less.

Do as you see fit.

ORT


----------



## Monsterzero

OldRoadToad said:


> There are a great many fine recordings that cost far less than $70.  I could not find that one listed in vinyl at the Narnes & Boble web site.  They had it on CD.  My local N&B gas George Harrison's magnum opus, the 3 LP set of "All Things Must Pass" for $69.00. I have yet to buy it because I already have the CD.  I may still purchase it because it reminds me more of my youth and I derive a degree of pleasure from the tactile feel of a vinyl record in my hads.
> 
> If that ("The Ramones") was the only album you were truly interested in, then I can see why you would not buy a 'table.  Records in the 60s and 70s were $3.00 to $5.00, some times more.  But the wages were a lot less.
> 
> ...


Id be interested in more than the Ramones debut album,but if one album costs 70.00,and they have 14 studio albums,a couple live LPs and a few compilations...Now Im not claiming to be Einstein but that comes out to about 1400.00 give or take just to complete their discography.

My digital collection sits at around 11000 files,and had over 600 LPs back before I sold my collection before I moved overseas...Id love to add a TT,but pure finances pretty much guarantees that I will stay digital.


----------



## OldRoadToad

monsterzero said:


> Id be interested in more than the Ramones debut album,but if one album costs 70.00,and they have 14 studio albums,a couple live LPs and a few compilations...Now Im not claiming to be Einstein but that comes out to about 1400.00 give or take just to complete their discography.
> 
> My digital collection sits at around 11000 files,and had over 600 LPs back before I sold my collection before I moved overseas...Id love to add a TT,but pure finances pretty much guarantees that I will stay digital.



I do not blame you one bit.  I usually buy albums that I do not have on CD or my computers unless it is some thing like I really want on vinyl.  I probably have 30 albums now.  I get one, may be two a month, if that. IF.

ORT


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> The other day I was in Barnes and Noble and noticed they have a vinyl section,so I went over to check out the new vinyl offerings.
> I spotted the first Ramones album,re-issue,looked at the price tag....
> 
> 70.00usd!!!!
> ...


Last time I went to my favorite record shop, I came home with 9 used albums, all in very good shape, for 40 bucks. You don't need to spend that kind of money on vinyl unless you choose to.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Ordered this one today.  Due in mid June.  I picked up my '64 Beatles today.  Will get it hooked up tonight or tomorrow.  I want to have a 2.1 channel system anchored by one of my vintage receivers down in the "family room" where my wife watches T.V.  I can hook the T.V. sound in to it if she wants.  I hate most T.V. but I under stand why she enjoys it.

A nice vintage receiver, internet tuning source, turntable and single box CD.  Oh...and the T.V. if she wants.

ORT

ORT


----------



## SirMarc

OldRoadToad said:


> Ordered this one today.  Due in mid June.  I picked up my '64 Beatles today.  Will get it hooked up tonight or tomorrow.  I want to have a 2.1 channel system anchored by one of my vintage receivers down in the "family room" where my wife watches T.V.  I can hook the T.V. sound in to it if she wants.  I hate most T.V. but I under stand why she enjoys it.
> 
> A nice vintage receiver, internet tuning source, turntable and single box CD.  Oh...and the T.V. if she wants.
> 
> ...


Pick up a Chromecast audio for 35 bucks and use you smartphone to control it. I just got one and its pretty cool


----------



## OldRoadToad

SirMarc said:


> Pick up a Chromecast audio for 35 bucks and use you smartphone to control it. I just got one and its pretty cool


I shall look in to that!

Thanks!

ORT


----------



## SirMarc




----------



## SirMarc (May 6, 2017)

^ Got a new rug and changed some things around in the man cave. Gonna try to track down a lava lamp too


----------



## OldRoadToad

SirMarc said:


>


Now *that*, that is what I call bitchin'!

Well done, indeed.
"Kung Fu" - Excellente'!

ORT


----------



## SirMarc

OldRoadToad said:


> Now *that*, that is what I call bitchin'!
> 
> Well done, indeed.
> "Kung Fu" - Excellente'!
> ...


Thanks man lol


----------



## Topspin70

This might have been asked before, but any Sansui owners here? Happy to meet anyone who appreciates good old Sansui like me. 

Here's a pic of my humble set-up:


----------



## richard51

Topspin70 said:


> This might have been asked before, but any Sansui owners here? Happy to meet anyone who appreciates good old Sansui like me.
> 
> Here's a pic of my humble set-up:


 Congratulations! Magnificent corner....

I am also a Sansui AU 7700 lucky owner... And you know what they say all these  Sansui owners : «For people that have owned Sansui amps, there seems to be two camps.The first are the owners who love their Amps and will never sell them.
The second are the owners who sold their Amps and wish they hadn't.»


----------



## PhoenixG

Man, what a great mellow looking system! Looks like hours of enjoyment. Cheers!



SirMarc said:


>


----------



## PhoenixG

There are a few real fans of the Sansui line here. Silent one and I both have their TOTL monster big G series, and many have the 9090 (or other x0x0 models) or AU models and swear by them.



Topspin70 said:


> This might have been asked before, but any Sansui owners here? Happy to meet anyone who appreciates good old Sansui like me.
> 
> Here's a pic of my humble set-up:


----------



## steppenout

I have an awesome Sansui AU-717. Manufactured in 1979 and still my favorite piece of gear!


----------



## Topspin70

richard51 said:


> Congratulations! Magnificent corner....
> 
> I am also a Sansui AU 7700 lucky owner... And you know what they say all these  Sansui owners : «For people that have owned Sansui amps, there seems to be two camps.The first are the owners who love their Amps and will never sell them.
> The second are the owners who sold their Amps and wish they hadn't.»





PhoenixG said:


> There are a few real fans of the Sansui line here. Silent one and I both have their TOTL monster big G series, and many have the 9090 (or other x0x0 models) or AU models and swear by them.



Hey, glad to meet you guys. 

@richard51 I'm a lucky guy from the first camp, who got my hands on my Au-555A from an unfortunate guy in the second camp. I can't be happier. I hear your 7700 is a real beauty. Not many on the market. Packs a huge punch too given it's power. You must be loving it.

@PhoenixG Wow. The G series are legendary. Such classic receiver looks too with those silver face plates. I don't know much about the XOXO series but sounds like I should. Great, there's some reading to keep me busy now.


----------



## Monsterzero

I have the former TOTL Sansui 881,and the infamous 5000a.
Both are nice sounding,with the 881 having very nice mids and the 5000a being quite warm.


----------



## Topspin70

steppenout said:


> I have an awesome Sansui AU-717. Manufactured in 1979 and still my favorite piece of gear!



That's absolutely beautiful. Really well kept too from what I can see. The wood on my 555A is chipping and falling off but I just think of it as part of the charm.


----------



## SirMarc

PhoenixG said:


> There are a few real fans of the Sansui line here. Silent one and I both have their TOTL monster big G series, and many have the 9090 (or other x0x0 models) or AU models and swear by them.


Yeah, big fan of my 9090. The search stopped when I got this guy a few years ago. I still look occasionally for an Eight Deluxe or integrated, but I'm pretty satisfied...


----------



## Topspin70

monsterzero said:


> I have the former TOTL Sansui 881,and the infamous 5000a.
> Both are nice sounding,with the 881 having very nice mids and the 5000a being quite warm.



Warm, great mids is quite the signature of Sansui isn't it. Then again I haven't heard that many to be sure. What's infamous about the 5000a? Other than being available for a real steal according to Audiokarma.


----------



## Monsterzero

Topspin70 said:


> What's infamous about the 5000a? Other than being available for a real steal according to Audiokarma.



They had a pesky tendency to catch on fire.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> They had a pesky tendency to catch on fire.


Very warm sound and a tendency to catch on fire. Hmm...


----------



## Monsterzero

SirMarc said:


> Very warm sound and a tendency to catch on fire. Hmm...


everytime I describe the sound of the 5000a I chuckle to myself,but it truly is the warmest SS Ive ever heard.The bass is solid as it comes,but at the expense of some detail on the top end that I hear in my other receivers.

Apparently the 5000a has a part inside that was the culprit for causing impromptu BBQs to erupt....they were recalled and replaced,dont know if my particular unit has the good or bad part,but so far so good.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> everytime I describe the sound of the 5000a I chuckle to myself,but it truly is the warmest SS Ive ever heard.The bass is solid as it comes,but at the expense of some detail on the top end that I hear in my other receivers.
> 
> Apparently the 5000a has a part inside that was the culprit for causing impromptu BBQs to erupt....they were recalled and replaced,dont know if my particular unit has the good or bad part,but so far so good.


Have you thought about a x0x0 series receiver? What I love about my 9090 is its warmish, without losing any detail at the top end. The soundstage and imaging are also excellent. That's what surprised me most with this guy, with your speakers set up right, it can be almost holographic. It also doesn't hurt that my 650's sound phenomenal from the headphone jack


----------



## Monsterzero

SirMarc said:


> Have you thought about a x0x0 series receiver? What I love about my 9090 is its warmish, without losing any detail at the top end. The soundstage and imaging are also excellent. That's what surprised me most with this guy, with your speakers set up right, it can be almost holographic. It also doesn't hurt that my 650's sound phenomenal from the headphone jack



I have looked at the x0x0 line yes,however I must admit my passion for receivers has usurped my passion for HPs as my top hobby/wallet drain.There are sooo many receivers out there that I wanna try by companies that Ive yet to hear(McIntosh,Luxman,Tandberg,Pioneer,Concept,Technics)so they will probably get my attention before i go for another Sansui.

It took me about two years to figure out the exact sound signature I prefer from headphones,so im still learning and listening to various receivers to find my preferred sound.

Im looking forward to hearing the Rectilinear Highboys I picked up last week thru my various receivers...theyre still in transit from Colorado,but theyre highly regarded,and not too easy to find.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> I have looked at the x0x0 line yes,however I must admit my passion for receivers has usurped my passion for HPs as my top hobby/wallet drain.There are sooo many receivers out there that I wanna try by companies that Ive yet to hear(McIntosh,Luxman,Tandberg,Pioneer,Concept,Technics)so they will probably get my attention before i go for another Sansui.
> 
> It took me about two years to figure out the exact sound signature I prefer from headphones,so im still learning and listening to various receivers to find my preferred sound.
> 
> Im looking forward to hearing the Rectilinear Highboys I picked up last week thru my various receivers...theyre still in transit from Colorado,but theyre highly regarded,and not too easy to find.


I hardly listen with my headphones anymore, I almost forgot how good music could sound with properly set up decent speakers. 

For years I had main speakers that were too big for my room. For 7.1 it was ok, because I could set them to small and let the sub handle bass. But when I got back into 2 channel and vintage receivers, my big Dahlquists just overpowered the room and it sounded like crap. This led to alot of headphone listening.

I picked up a pair of Elac Uni-Fi UB5's on a whim after reading a bunch of very positive reviews and had my mind blown.

Who new speaker technology had come this far? If you sat me blindfolded and played me these things, I'd never guess 5 bills, probably a few grand. They could look better, but for this kind of money who cares?


----------



## richard51 (May 7, 2017)

For the Sansui AU 7700... Name  another TOTL  audiophile amplifier with all these advantages and flexibility at a low price :

«Features of the AU-7700 include terminals for connecting up to two pairs of speakers, circuits for handling two tape decks, terminals for connecting up to two turntables,  with 2 selectable pick-up load, versatile control of tonal quality and high and low filter switches.» I must add a separate pre-amp function of audiophile quality ( my repairman said to me better than some Mc- Intosh amplifier) a loudness audiophile quality  button that boost separately or together the low and high frequencies( very useful for  speakers listening at low volume in the night) two set of muting controls (-15 and -30 db) a reverse mode control, normal, and mono mode,last but not least a phone output so good that i forget all headphone amp under 1000 bucks for my He 400...With all these functions , what actual amplifier can beat that?  remember that the sound is detailed, with a touch of warm, and holographic....The power is  rated 54 watts, my repairman measured it a bit over 80 watts...

Someone  without doubt  may suggest me an upgrade, a better Sansui probably at a much higher price than mine (100 dollars i have paid+another 100 for a recaps)  or some amp around 2000 bucks or more, i will not name them,but remember that these other contemporary products have practically none of the flexible functions of my sansui, except perhaps a so called better sound, ( more detailed perhaps but would it be musical and holographic also? ) but with at minimum 5 times or more the price i have paid... If you listen music with speakers also and not only with headphone, where is the actual amplifier at a low price that can power your phones and speakers alike at an optimal  identical level of quality? Look for a Sansui between 1975 and 1980, and forget upgrading...

Cheers!


Other opinions here :    https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/au-7700.shtml


----------



## OldRoadToad

Topspin70 said:


> This might have been asked before, but any Sansui owners here? Happy to meet anyone who appreciates good old Sansui like me.
> 
> Here's a pic of my humble set-up:




Tremendous fan of Sansui here!  I am always on the look out for a Sansui G5700 for my older brother as he owned one many years ago and regrets selling it.  I will find one, I just hope I can afford it when I do!  Until then, I bought him a nice Pioneer and will give it to him when he comes down for his niece's wedding in September.

I very much like your set up. That speaker "stand" is not only "innovative" but cool in a way all stands should be.  Very classic. 

Well done!

ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

SirMarc said:


> Last time I went to my favorite record shop, I came home with 9 used albums, all in very good shape, for 40 bucks. You don't need to spend that kind of money on vinyl unless you choose to.


I picked up a 61 year old Ella Fitzgerald album for my daughter whom I just gave a 'table too.  It is a two disc set but only one side plays minus the rice crispiest sound, LOL!

She has a Bluetooth ION turntable and likes it just fine.  She can move up when she wants to.  I still have not gotten over to put set up the vintage Kenwood I bought for her.  I am lazy but I did get her some Paradigm Titans. 

ORT


----------



## SirMarc (May 7, 2017)

OldRoadToad said:


> I picked up a 61 year old Ella Fitzgerald album for my daughter whom I just gave a 'table too.  It is a two disc set but only one side plays minus the rice crispiest sound, LOL!
> 
> She has a Bluetooth ION turntable and likes it just fine.  She can move up when she wants to.  I still have not gotten over to put set up the vintage Kenwood I bought for her.  I am lazy but I did get her some Paradigm Titans.
> 
> ORT


Yikes man, find her a p-mount Technics from the 80's on Craigslist. You can probably find one for under 100 bucks, and Amazon sells very decent AT p-mount carts for like 25 bucks. That Ion is gonna chew up her albums, and if she gets into it and upgrades, she'll need to replace them


----------



## Monsterzero

SirMarc said:


> I hardly listen with my headphones anymore, I almost forgot how good music could sound with properly set up decent speakers.
> 
> For years I had main speakers that were too big for my room. For 7.1 it was ok, because I could set them to small and let the sub handle bass. But when I got back into 2 channel and vintage receivers, my big Dahlquists just overpowered the room and it sounded like crap. This led to alot of headphone listening.
> 
> ...



Im getting to the point where I listen to speakers more and more as well,except when I cannot(late at night)
I have a pair of GoldenEar Triton 2 powered by a Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum and the sound is breathtaking,holographic imaging that is mindblowing.
The problem with that setup is 
a.Its too much system for my space.
b.It demands your undivided attention.You want to sit in the sweet spot.Amazing for critical listening,problem is im not a critical listener.

Hoping that the Highboys+ vintage receiver will get me a great sounding system without forcing me to turn it way down to accommodate the space and sounds great even when im not occupying a narrow section of my couch.


----------



## SirMarc (May 7, 2017)

Back in the day, I had Spectral separates, a Theta dac and transport, my Thorens TD145 w/Sumiko BPS and Dahlquist DQ20's. I was critical listening myself to death. I got to the point where I rarely listened to the music. I was listening to my gear.

Around this time home theater was getting big and SACD and DVD audio were taking off. I found myself listening to my HT set up with 5.1 music way more than my 2 channel rig, so I sold most of it off and never looked back, until I got into the vintage gear.

What I love about the 9090 is its warm enough to be pretty much fatigue free with long sessions, but clean, crisp and immersive sounding enough for critical listening too.


----------



## Monsterzero




----------



## SirMarc (May 7, 2017)

monsterzero said:


>


Looking at your sig, I forgot about the Eleven. Do you like it better than your 881? I like the way my KR-7600 sounds, but it's a bit bass heavy and one dimensional. I've explained to friends that the Kenwood is like a nice led tv, but the Sansui is like a better 3d tv .


----------



## Monsterzero

SirMarc said:


> Looking at your sig, I forgot about the Eleven. Do you like it better than your 881? I like the way my KR-7600 sounds, but it's a bit bass heavy and one dimensional. I've explained to friends that the Kenwood is like a nice led tv, but the Sansui is like a better 3d tv .



I literally just got it back from my repair guy last night...It arrived with a dead right channel. Thus far I dont find it to be bass heavy,def more detailed than my 5000a,but not quite as bright or detailed as my Onkyo....Probably closer in sound to the Onkyo than the 881,but I havent let her really rip yet either.


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> I literally just got it back from my repair guy last night...It arrived with a dead right channel. Thus far I dont find it to be bass heavy,def more detailed than my 5000a,but not quite as bright or detailed as my Onkyo....Probably closer in sound to the Onkyo than the 881,but I havent let her really rip yet either.


Cool, let us know what you think


----------



## richard51 (May 7, 2017)

monsterzero said:


>



Effectively for the last 6 years, in a search to an audiophile systems for at maximum 1000 bucks total for all necessary element included (speakers, headphone, dac), i listen often to my music to evaluate my equipment choice and performance...BUT i now listen music more than my equipment, because that perfect integration of all my elements  resulted at last  to a  truly  musical sound...

It takes me 6 years of experimenting,a few successive dacs, amps and choice of speakers, before satisfaction were obtained...But the most upgrading element, per se, with my lucky purchasing of the Sansui amp,  were the experiments that guide me to  methods for eliminating noise and negative resonance in and between elements mostly with sorbothane,and room treatment also, and last but not least, modifications with crystals and minerals in my equipment not only for damping vibrations but also for elimination of EMI...Now at last  i can listen music, without interrogating myself about a new upgrade, *because when there is  finally music, you do no more analysis*...

I have  now a Moondog music cd, after purchasing it  first in vinyl some 40 years ago, and it is the first time i listen to it really with all details and pleasant  musical sound  this month...Hence, possessing a good system not inhibited by vibrations, EMI, and bad choice of  a particular equipment or links, is truly marvellous... The good news is that cost me 1000 bucks for all part, without counting sorbothane, crystals, and some cheap materials for room treatment and some cables...Buying VINTAGE is only one of the secrets,but an important lesson...


----------



## Topspin70 (May 7, 2017)

OldRoadToad said:


> Tremendous fan of Sansui here!  I am always on the look out for a Sansui G5700 for my older brother as he owned one many years ago and regrets selling it.  I will find one, I just hope I can afford it when I do!  Until then, I bought him a nice Pioneer and will give it to him when he comes down for his niece's wedding in September.
> 
> I very much like your set up. That speaker "stand" is not only "innovative" but cool in a way all stands should be.  Very classic.
> 
> ...



Haha. Thanks. I was looking at the Isoacoustics LR series to lift the speakers up to ear level. But so far stands that transfer energy away instead of isolating do a much better job for my system. Hence it had to be wood/bamboo. That's when I chanced up these "stands" at a Japanese $2-for-anything shop. 100% certified NOT audiophile quality but boy do they work!

Hope you find that G5700 for your brother. When you do, maybe have some nice time with it before giving it to him. That's what I would do if I were you. lol.


----------



## Topspin70

I always admire how passionate Sansui fans are when it comes to their gear. In my city I often see Luxman vintage amps being traded around. Hardly anyone hangs on to them for long. But Sansui, when they do appear, they're gone in a blink for good. I'm glad I got my hands on a the 2050C turntable. It wobbles and has a hum that just can't be traced. But that luscious tone it makes is better than any of these sleek fancy new things in the market.


----------



## Seamaster

A sleeper amp that kicks McIntosh MC60's butt, awesome bass for a 52 years old! The headphone output is strapped to speaker tap with only one 150 Ohm resister per side.


----------



## Monsterzero

Seamaster said:


> A sleeper amp that kicks McIntosh MC60's butt, awesome bass for a 52 years old! The headphone output is strapped to speaker tap with only one 150 Ohm resister per side.



Wow,thats interesting,and kinda heartbreaking at the same time...Ive always loved the look of the old McIntosh tube gear...In what ways does the Scott beat the Mac?


----------



## Seamaster

monsterzero said:


> Wow,thats interesting,and kinda heartbreaking at the same time...Ive always loved the look of the old McIntosh tube gear...In what ways does the Scott beat the Mac?



That is a pair of MC30 in the background, which is still the king in my house, MC60 are already gone. 222D has better vocal and musicality than MC60. MC60 has better HF extension but it is kind of Hi Fi ish sounding. 222D has better kick in the bass than MC30 but with little less definition and control, but wonderful in its own right. MC30's vocal is still unchallenged.


----------



## Monsterzero

Seamaster said:


> That is a pair of MC30 in the background, which is still the king in my house, MC60 are already gone. 222D has better vocal and musicality than MC60. MC60 has better HF extension but it is kind of Hi Fi ish sounding. 222D has better kick in the bass than MC30 but with little less definition and control, but wonderful in its own right. MC30's vocal is still unchallenged.



Forgive the ignorant questions,but does the Mac have proprietary tubes,or are the tubes interchangeable like other tube amps?


----------



## Seamaster (May 8, 2017)

monsterzero said:


> Forgive the ignorant questions,but does the Mac have proprietary tubes,or are the tubes interchangeable like other tube amps?



Which Mac are you referring  to? Power tube or signal tube?


Mac are not as flexible for tube rolling, you only can improve the house sound but can not alter the sound signature by rolling tubes. Also they have limited space for small tubes, so adapters are not an option in most the cases.


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> Forgive the ignorant questions,but does the Mac have proprietary tubes,or are the tubes interchangeable like other tube amps?


While many (all?) original Mac tubes are screen printed with the McIntosh logo, they are commercially available tubes in standard sizes (12ax7, 12at7, 6l6gc, etc) made by major US manufacturers.


----------



## Topspin70

Seamaster said:


> A sleeper amp that kicks McIntosh MC60's butt, awesome bass for a 52 years old! The headphone output is strapped to speaker tap with only one 150 Ohm resister per side.



Is that a D150 I see underneath your beautiful vintage Mc? If so it's new meets old. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Seamaster

Topspin70 said:


> Is that a D150 I see underneath your beautiful vintage Mc? If so it's new meets old. Best of both worlds.



Yes it is a D150, it sounds very neutral (to me). If you have a very warm front end, Scott 222D and MC30 might not work as good, especially 222D, it is quite warm.


----------



## Seamaster

PhoenixG said:


> While many (all?) original Mac tubes are screen printed with the McIntosh logo, they are commercially available tubes in standard sizes (12ax7, 12at7, 6l6gc, etc) made by major US manufacturers.



Original McIntosh tubes are nothing special, sonically.


----------



## Monsterzero

Seamaster said:


> Original McIntosh tubes are nothing special, sonically.



thats where I was going with my line of questions....thanks!


----------



## Topspin70

Seamaster said:


> Yes it is a D150, it sounds very neutral (to me). If you have a very warm front end, Scott 222D and MC30 might not work as good, especially 222D, it is quite warm.



Oh I see. That sure makes sense. Years ago I was in love with the D100 and I recall it was detailed, neutral yet has that beautiful McIntosh tone. In general, I'm like you, preferring neutral front ends, and let the amps add the magic touch to the music.


----------



## 93EXCivic

So I am thinking about getting a vintage receiver to use in my living room at first to power headphones but at some point I am going to add speakers. I figured given the size of them I would look locally. What are good brands and/ or models to look for? I am assuming that I will probably need to replace the caps. How difficult is this? I have done a little DIY audio stuff so far. Basically looking for idea of where to start.


----------



## Monsterzero

93EXCivic said:


> So I am thinking about getting a vintage receiver to use in my living room at first to power headphones but at some point I am going to add speakers. I figured given the size of them I would look locally. What are good brands and/ or models to look for? I am assuming that I will probably need to replace the caps. How difficult is this? I have done a little DIY audio stuff so far. Basically looking for idea of where to start.


 I just went thru the same process and got a lot of advice over on AK....
First you need to decide if you like the "west coast" or "east coast" sound...After you figure out what the hell that means it can help narrow it down.

I opted for east coast,even though im a native of SoCal,and got no less than 15-20 different suggestions on makes and models


----------



## r2muchstuff

93EXCivic said:


> ... I am assuming that I will probably need to replace the caps. How difficult is this? I have done a little DIY audio stuff so far. Basically looking for idea of where to start.



Two schools of thought:

Replace all the caps and update other parts.

Or

Replace only out of spec, broken or dead stuff.

I prefer the latter, as it does not have as great of a potential to affect the sound.
However, I do plan to have one amp/receiver completely redone to see what these vintage units are capable of with some new parts 

JMTC,
r2


----------



## PhoenixG

93EXCivic said:


> So I am thinking about getting a vintage receiver to use in my living room at first to power headphones but at some point I am going to add speakers. I figured given the size of them I would look locally. What are good brands and/ or models to look for? I am assuming that I will probably need to replace the caps. How difficult is this? I have done a little DIY audio stuff so far. Basically looking for idea of where to start.


If you post your local craigslist link, we can look at what's there now and make suggestions. Really takes it from the abstract to the concrete haha.


----------



## Topspin70

monsterzero said:


> I just went thru the same process and got a lot of advice over on AK....
> First you need to decide if you like the "west coast" or "east coast" sound...After you figure out what the hell that means it can help narrow it down.
> 
> I opted for east coast,even though im a native of SoCal,and got no less than 15-20 different suggestions on makes and models



What's the West Coast and East Coast sound? Or should I look it up in AK? Sounds very interesting.


----------



## Monsterzero

Topspin70 said:


> What's the West Coast and East Coast sound? Or should I look it up in AK? Sounds very interesting.



Essentially East Coast has one or no bass ports,for a tight relaxed sound,whereas West Coast has multiple ports and the bass is typically wilder and whollier,more v-shape.

You can see my thread here,perhaps it will help you.


----------



## Topspin70

monsterzero said:


> Essentially East Coast has one or no bass ports,for a tight relaxed sound,whereas West Coast has multiple ports and the bass is typically wilder and whollier,more v-shape.
> 
> You can see my thread here,perhaps it will help you.



Oh it refers to speakers. Still it's something new to me. I've been eyeing the Harbeth P3eSRs for quite a while now, being enamoured to those LS3/5 designs but the lack of bass ports just didn't seem to work in my living room, even if it's a small apartment. Quite a shame cuz those mids and vocal reproduction from such small monitor designs are really to die for.


----------



## Monsterzero

Topspin70 said:


> Oh it refers to speakers. Still it's something new to me. I've been eyeing the Harbeth P3eSRs for quite a while now, being enamoured to those LS3/5 designs but the lack of bass ports just didn't seem to work in my living room, even if it's a small apartment. Quite a shame cuz those mids and vocal reproduction from such small monitor designs are really to die for.



DOH! Ok,yeah i thought you were asking for makes/models of vintage speakers

As far as receivers go,theres lots of good stuff out there,Pioneer,Sansui,Marantz,Tandberg,Onkyo,Kenwood,Yamaha,McIntosh,Concept to name a few.
I have 2 Sansuis,1 Marantz,1 Onkyo and 1 Pioneer...they all sound different...I just got my Kenwood Eleven GX back from the shop a couple days ago,and my Rectilinear Highboys arrived today,so im having a grand old time tonite...Sextetts going on the skull soon!


----------



## Topspin70

monsterzero said:


> DOH! Ok,yeah i thought you were asking for makes/models of vintage speakers
> 
> As far as receivers go,theres lots of good stuff out there,Pioneer,Sansui,Marantz,Tandberg,Onkyo,Kenwood,Yamaha,McIntosh,Concept to name a few.
> I have 2 Sansuis,1 Marantz,1 Onkyo and 1 Pioneer...they all sound different...I just got my Kenwood Eleven GX back from the shop a couple days ago,and my Rectilinear Highboys arrived today,so im having a grand old time tonite...Sextetts going on the skull soon!



It was actually @93EXCivic who posed the original question. I'm just a nosey guy who chimed in on your reply to him. Sorry for the confusion! But I find it educational as well.

@93EXCivic Your answer's above.


----------



## OldRoadToad

93EXCivic said:


> So I am thinking about getting a vintage receiver to use in my living room at first to power headphones but at some point I am going to add speakers. I figured given the size of them I would look locally. What are good brands and/ or models to look for? I am assuming that I will probably need to replace the caps. How difficult is this? I have done a little DIY audio stuff so far. Basically looking for idea of where to start.




Look at ads from your most local version of Craigslist.  When you see some thing that interests you, jot down make and model number and then do a search on it and read what you find, good and bad.

Me?  I would stay with the '70s as for me that is the golden age of the receiver.  I also tend to value looks.  If it catches the eye, the heart will follow.  I tend toward Marantz, Sansui, Pioneer, Kenwood and Yamaha but there are other brands out there that will more than suffice. 

Do not obsess over things you have no control over.  If you have to re-cap, then do so.  If not, save your money for other things.  Have fun with your search and then just enjoy your self listening to and looking at, your "hearloom".


ORT


----------



## 93EXCivic

Cool thanks for the advice. I will keep an eye on Craigslist and we I see some stuff I like, I will post.


----------



## shuto77

Starting research into a vintage stereo receiver. Subbed. 

My big question is how good of a headphone amplifier can I get for $300-400, all in? I know these receivers will need a little (or a lot) of tlc upon arrival. 

I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. What can I get that will be an upgrade at my price point?


----------



## r2muchstuff

shuto77 said:


> Starting research into a vintage stereo receiver. Subbed.
> 
> My big question is how good of a headphone amplifier can I get for $300-400, all in? I know these receivers will need a little (or a lot) of tlc upon arrival.
> 
> I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. What can I get that will be an upgrade at my price point?


Better is a hard thing 

My Pioneer SA 9800, SX1250 or Spec 1/4 all sound good with specific headphones yet are they better than any of my Schiit amps?
To me they are all just different and synergy with a headphone is important.  For example, the SA 9800 pairs wonderfully with my Beyerdynamic T1.2 so that could be better, but maybe just different.

JMTC & IMHO,
r2


----------



## shuto77

r2muchstuff said:


> Better is a hard thing
> 
> My Pioneer SA 9800, SX1250 or Spec 1/4 all sound good with specific headphones yet are they better than any of my Schiit amps?
> To me they are all just different and synergy with a headphone is important.  For example, the SA 9800 pairs wonderfully with my Beyerdynamic T1.2 so that could be better, but maybe just different.
> ...



I had a feeling I would get that sort of answer, lol. 

I'm getting out of the habit of keeping lots of gear around, so if I replace my Liquid Carbon, I need it to be equally versatile. My LC is good for anything except headphones with a big mid-bass bump, from my experience.


----------



## Monsterzero

shuto77 said:


> Starting research into a vintage stereo receiver. Subbed.
> 
> My big question is how good of a headphone amplifier can I get for $300-400, all in? I know these receivers will need a little (or a lot) of tlc upon arrival.
> 
> I have a Cavalli Liquid Carbon. What can I get that will be an upgrade at my price point?



Look who the cat dragged in.....

Welcome to the old side! 

You can get one helluva receiver for 3-400.00,the only thing you might have issues with is driving low impedance HPs with them.

@r2muchstuff knows a work around for that too tho...


----------



## r2muchstuff

shuto77 said:


> I had a feeling I would get that sort of answer, lol.
> 
> I'm getting out of the habit of keeping lots of gear around, so if I replace my Liquid Carbon, I need it to be equally versatile. My LC is good for anything except headphones with a big mid-bass bump, from my experience.



My experiance is that I prefer the Beyer sound with vintage, less so Sennheiser.  Phones, brand, and ears all make it personal.

r2


----------



## shuto77

monsterzero said:


> Look who the cat dragged in.....
> 
> Welcome to the old side!
> 
> ...





r2muchstuff said:


> My experiance is that I prefer the Beyer sound with vintage, less so Sennheiser.  Phones, brand, and ears all make it personal.
> 
> r2



With low-impedance phones, I'll just use my Chord Mojo. Problem solved. 

I just pm'd monsterzero with some more requirements; maybe this will help me narrow it down. 

1) I need an amp that has binding posts for banana plugs, rather than the cheap spring clips.
2) I need two sets of speaker taps, one for speakers, one for phones.
3) I want something that looks really nice. The Marantz, Onkyo, and Sansui units of the late 70s seem very nice. 
4) I want something super detailed and neutral. My phones will color the sound enough. 

Recommendations welcomed. eBay has 10% cash back next two days, so it would be cool to pull the trigger right away, lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

TBH Ive never seen a vintage unit with proper binding posts for banana plugs...not saying they dont exist,but have yet to come across one personally.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Only seen them on power amps like the Spec 4.  Into the 80's for them to become common.

r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

shuto77 said:


> 4) I want something super detailed and neutral. My phones will color the sound enough.



This is vintage, so your perception of this will limit choices.

r2


----------



## shuto77

r2muchstuff said:


> This is vintage, so your perception of this will limit choices.
> 
> r2



So, to be clear, the big draw of vintage receivers is 1) the power, and 2) the looks? 

Are they not as refined as modern headphone amps? 

Sounds like I might be expecting too much, as we're using them in ways they were never intended to be used.


----------



## Monsterzero

My .02 cents...

When these behemoths were built there were no earbuds or low impedance,mobile HPs...they were built to drive hard to push 600ohm beasts,that would otherwise require pretty massive(and costly)dedicated HP amps today.They also are awesome with planar HPs!

Factor in the power and looks,not to mention the ability to drive speakers,pull in radio,built in tone control and loudness button,multiple inputs,turntable stage(s) all at a fraction of what HP amp costs,to me its a no brainer....


----------



## shuto77

monsterzero said:


> My .02 cents...
> 
> When these behemoths were built there were no earbuds or low impedance,mobile HPs...they were built to drive hard to push 600ohm beasts,that would otherwise require pretty massive(and costly)dedicated HP amps today.They also are awesome with planar HPs!
> 
> Factor in the power and looks,not to mention the ability to drive speakers,pull in radio,built in tone control and loudness button,multiple inputs,turntable stage(s) all at a fraction of what HP amp costs,to me its a no brainer....



Yes, thanks for filling in the blanks for me!

I just need to narrow down the one I want, for a good price. 

Looking forward to connecting my Mojo to one of these bad boys, and driving my Klipsch RP160s (and my planar headphones).

Should I go with pins, spades, or "tinned ends." Aside from banana plugs, Dyson Audio will terminate the cable however I want. I'm just going to get a balanced to speaker adapter so I don't have to buy multiple cables with speaker taps.


----------



## Monsterzero

shuto77 said:


> Yes, thanks for filling in the blanks for me!
> 
> I just need to narrow down the one I want, for a good price.
> 
> ...



I have bare wire with soldered(tinned) ends w/ mini xlr in the middle,for my HE-6,this way im not limited to what kind of speaker taps I can connect to,but TBH the HE6 is the only HP that I have that gets a _*massive*_ improvement from taps over the HP jack.


----------



## northendjazz

Sansui G-401 in the house . The sellers wife had sold it on her account, resulting in a weeks delay in shipping but made me smile anyway.
Most of my listening is done at night and must say I enjoy the light show, different from my tube amps glow. I'm enjoying the g-401 with my ZMF vibro's
can't get much past 1 on the volume dial (stepped) and the tuning section is real nice in use. I'm happy with the under £100 price and with the performance that sound many times more.


----------



## shuto77

monsterzero said:


> I have bare wire with soldered(tinned) ends w/ mini xlr in the middle,for my HE-6,this way im not limited to what kind of speaker taps I can connect to,but TBH the HE6 is the only HP that I have that gets a _*massive*_ improvement from taps over the HP jack.



Ahh, thanks for the information. And I see you also have a Mojo - such a great little device!

Do brands have consistent house sounds? I've read Marantz and Pioneer are on the warm side and Onkyos are a little bright. Which brand is generally neutral with really strong dynamics?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Do brands have consistent house sounds? I've read Marantz and Pioneer are on the warm side and Onkyos are a little bright. Which brand is generally neutral with really strong dynamics?[/QUOTE]

Yes, to some degree.  However within one brand there is variation between series productions.
For example a 1973 Pioneer SA 9100, 8100 , 7100 ... series integrated amp will be different from a 1977 SA 9500 II, 8500 II, 7500 II series amp. 

An often overlooked brand is Mitsubishi, I find that the late 1970 DA series may fit your neutral with dynamics, the problem is that they do not drive the headphone out from the main amp circuit, thus you are only able to use speaker tap connections for the true amp sound.

Maybe Sony or Yamaha?

JMTC,
r2


----------



## Hutnicks

r2muchstuff said:


> Do brands have consistent house sounds? I've read Marantz and Pioneer are on the warm side and Onkyos are a little bright. Which brand is generally neutral with really strong dynamics?



Yes, to some degree.  However within one brand there is variation between series productions.
For example a 1973 Pioneer SA 9100, 8100 , 7100 ... series integrated amp will be different from a 1977 SA 9500 II, 8500 II, 7500 II series amp.

An often overlooked brand is Mitsubishi, I find that the late 1970 DA series may fit your neutral with dynamics, the problem is that they do not drive the headphone out from the main amp circuit, thus you are only able to use speaker tap connections for the true amp sound.

Maybe Sony or Yamaha?

JMTC,
r2[/QUOTE]
I'd have to throw in the 80's Kyocera mosfet units as well the Realistic STA series (manufacured by Foster of Fostex fame) are a real unsung bargain when they can be found.


----------



## shuto77

r2muchstuff said:


> Do brands have consistent house sounds? I've read Marantz and Pioneer are on the warm side and Onkyos are a little bright. Which brand is generally neutral with really strong dynamics?



Yes, to some degree.  However within one brand there is variation between series productions.
For example a 1973 Pioneer SA 9100, 8100 , 7100 ... series integrated amp will be different from a 1977 SA 9500 II, 8500 II, 7500 II series amp.

An often overlooked brand is Mitsubishi, I find that the late 1970 DA series may fit your neutral with dynamics, the problem is that they do not drive the headphone out from the main amp circuit, thus you are only able to use speaker tap connections for the true amp sound.

Maybe Sony or Yamaha?

JMTC,
r2[/QUOTE]


Thanks for the tip. 

I've been researching this, and I've read a few comments saying Marantz receivers aren't as good of a value because they're so highly sought after, and command a higher premium. 

I'm digging into Pioneer receivers atm.


----------



## Monsterzero

shuto77 said:


> Yes, to some degree.  However within one brand there is variation between series productions.
> For example a 1973 Pioneer SA 9100, 8100 , 7100 ... series integrated amp will be different from a 1977 SA 9500 II, 8500 II, 7500 II series amp.
> 
> An often overlooked brand is Mitsubishi, I find that the late 1970 DA series may fit your neutral with dynamics, the problem is that they do not drive the headphone out from the main amp circuit, thus you are only able to use speaker tap connections for the true amp sound.
> ...




[/QUOTE]Thanks for the tip.

I've been researching this, and I've read a few comments saying Marantz receivers aren't as good of a value because they're so highly sought after, and command a higher premium.

I'm digging into Pioneer receivers atm.[/QUOTE]

I have heard that the x0x0 Yamaha line sounds pretty nice,dunno,but not a fan of their looks.

What was said earlier about sound signatures changing within different lines of the same company...I can verify this to be true.My Sansui 5000a is much warmer than my Sansui 881.


----------



## SpeakerBox (May 11, 2017)

monsterzero said:


> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> I've been researching this, and I've read a few comments saying Marantz receivers aren't as good of a value because they're so highly sought after, and command a higher premium.
> 
> ...



I have never understood why the Marantz units are so sought after.  They are very warm and lacking detail to my ears.  On the other hand the Pioneer x50/x80 series are well balanced, plenty of detail, and not overly warm.  To each his own I guess.


----------



## shuto77

SpeakerBox said:


> I have never understood why the Marantz units are so sought after.  They are very warm and lacking detail to my ears.  On the other hand the Pioneer x50/x80 series are well balanced, plenty of detail, and not overly warm.  To each his own I guess.



Which pioneers do you like? All of the top ones are running $600+ on ebay at the moment.


----------



## Monsterzero

shuto77 said:


> Which pioneers do you like? All of the top ones are running $600+ on ebay at the moment.


Id like to get my hands on a 1010 someday,but you honestly dont need that much receiver,even if youre planning on getting an HE-6.
If you keep your WPC requirement down under 100 the price tends to drop off significantly.


----------



## OldRoadToad

shuto77 said:


> So, to be clear, the big draw of vintage receivers is 1) the power, and 2) the looks?
> 
> Are they not as refined as modern headphone amps?
> 
> Sounds like I might be expecting too much, as we're using them in ways they were never intended to be used.




If it has a 'phone output, use it for your headphones too.  The attraction for me, is looks, class, style, etc.  The golden age of the '70s begat a great many great receivers.  Unless there is some thing wrong, the receiver will just play your music as it was recorded.  You want DSP? Then use those digits on your hands (i.e., your fingers)  to turn up the bass or treble. 

It will NEVER sound like the musician is standing in front of you unless they are really standing in front of you.  And personally, I do not want them standing in front of me as many of my favorites are dead.

ORT


----------



## marysdad

For home 2-channel audio, I use a Pioneer SX-950 to drive speakers. I primarily use cans (HD600) for producing vinyl rips and drive them using an ODAC and an O2 headamp. I just prefer speakers for listening to vinyl or CDs. If I listen and need to use phones, I use my DAP and IEMs.


----------



## r2muchstuff

shuto77 said:


> Which pioneers do you like? All of the top ones are running $600+ on ebay at the moment.



Good solid Pioneer Receiver performance without going TOL would be SX 850 or SX 950, better would be SX 1050.  Next up SX 980 or 1080. Early 1970's blue dial are wonderful also, however their sound is different from the mid to late 70's lines.  I think you would prefer the later versions.

Forgo the tuner / lights and a Pioneer SA 8500 II or SA 8800 really gives a great price / preformance ratio.  Go TOL with either a SA 9500 II or SA 9800 and you will not leave anything on the table.

IMHO,
r2


----------



## shuto77

monsterzero said:


> Id like to get my hands on a 1010 someday,but you honestly dont need that much receiver,even if youre planning on getting an HE-6.
> If you keep your WPC requirement down under 100 the price tends to drop off significantly.



Yeah, my Klipsch RP160M are probably more efficient than the HE6, lol.

I really don't need


r2muchstuff said:


> Good solid Pioneer Receiver performance without going TOL would be SX 850 or SX 950, better would be SX 1050.  Next up SX 980 or 1080. Early 1970's blue dial are wonderful also, however their sound is different from the mid to late 70's lines.  I think you would prefer the later versions.
> 
> Forgo the tuner / lights and a Pioneer SA 8500 II or SA 8800 really gives a great price / preformance ratio.  Go TOL with either a SA 9500 II or SA 9800 and you will not leave anything on the table.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much. 

Getting into vintage receivers is so much more daunting than first getting into hifi in general. You guys have been tremendously helpful.


----------



## northendjazz

It may not work for everyone but an approach I first used for photographic equipment could be turned to vintage integrated receivers and amps. In searching for cameras (film) that fit the way I work, I bought secondhand cameras with stable prices and sold the ones that did not fit and moving on to the next, yes it turned into a business but I found my camera contentment. I think prices of vintage amps are like classic(film) cameras stable with a general rise in value so you can settle on your choice without losing money.


----------



## shuto77

northendjazz said:


> It may not work for everyone but an approach I first used for photographic equipment could be turned to vintage integrated receivers and amps. In searching for cameras (film) that fit the way I work, I bought secondhand cameras with stable prices and sold the ones that did not fit and moving on to the next, yes it turned into a business but I found my camera contentment. I think prices of vintage amps are like classic(film) cameras stable with a general rise in value so you can settle on your choice without losing money.



That is a really good idea! I use this strategy with all my modern a/v gear, because I know the market so well. 

I just have to make sure I get a good deal on my first amp, so I don't lose (much) money if I decide it's not to my liking. 

For now, I'm trying to focus on the mid-end Pioneer receivers from the mid-to-late 70s. Looks like there are lots of good options, but the price varies great depending on the condition. I don't mind buying a receiver for $400 if I can sell it down the line for at least $350. 

Good to know this gear appreciates, rather than depreciates, like modern gear!


----------



## northendjazz

Yep, Knowing the market helps, I know less about the audio market but I have managed to keep the same pool of money and tried a few different amps, so home use I've settled on vintage.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Keep in mind that a "good deal" is where both parties are satisfied.  A "great deal" is where in addition to being satisfied, you are happy.

I am happy with the receivers I have purchased both as gifts and for my self. 

ORT


----------



## SpeakerBox

shuto77 said:


> Which pioneers do you like? All of the top ones are running $600+ on ebay at the moment.



I have a mint SX-1250 that has been restored.  The sound is absolutely stunning.  Sometimes I even wonder if I will need to keep my high end stuff.  Debating if I will sell it as the 1250 may be all I need.


----------



## shuto77

OldRoadToad said:


> Keep in mind that a "good deal" is where both parties are satisfied.  A "great deal" is where in addition to being satisfied, you are happy.
> 
> I am happy with the receivers I have purchased both as gifts and for my self.
> 
> ORT



Fair enough. 

I'm just trying to get a handle on what respective models' values are, so I don't overpay. 

I don't expect to get a fully restored receiver for $100.


----------



## r2muchstuff

All vintage took a value hit 10 years a go.  Prices have come back, yet lower and mid tier not to the extent that TOL has.  Tuners are less valued today, so separates are a better value if you are into FM since a TOL tuner is a relative bargain.  If you are not into FM, I do not see tha attraction for receivers.  Only TOL receivers have TOL tuners included. A separate intergrated amp is a better value if FM is not important.

JMTC,
r2


----------



## shuto77

r2muchstuff said:


> All vintage took a value hit 10 years a go.  Prices have come back, yet lower and mid tier not to the extent that TOL has.  Tuners are less valued today, so separates are a better value if you are into FM since a TOL tuner is a relative bargain.  If you are not into FM, I do not see tha attraction for receivers.  Only TOL receivers have TOL tuners included. A separate intergrated amp is a better value if FM is not important.
> 
> JMTC,
> r2



Yes, I'm not interested in FM radio. All my sources are connected to the interwebz. Heresy, I know!


----------



## shuto77

So this changes things. 

I just need to find an integrated amp then.


----------



## Monsterzero

shuto77 said:


> So this changes things.
> 
> I just need to find an integrated amp then.



Wait....what about all the pretty lights?!?

Im kinda joking,but not entirely.


----------



## shuto77

monsterzero said:


> Wait....what about all the pretty lights?!?
> 
> Im kinda joking,but not entirely.



I love the lights, but I also want to save some money, lol.


----------



## SirMarc

My advice is buy local, and bring your dac and headphones with you.  If you like it and get a decent price, buy it, if not walk away. That's how I've bought all my vintage pieces.


----------



## shuto77

There's a shop near me that restores and sells vintage equipment. I'm going to bring my gear with me and try to demo a couple amps. If all goes well, I'll have some pictures tomorrow.


----------



## r2muchstuff

shuto77 said:


> I love the lights, but I also want to save some money, lol.



The Pioneer SA 7800, 8800 & 9800 have the lovely Fluorescent Display Tubes with a blue tinted window and the non-switching amp design.  So, lights and specs.

The SA 7500 II, 8500 II & 9500 II are not far off ( if at all ) on SQ and are priced less due to the demand for the pretty lights . Some claim that the non switching design is the best sounding ( insert reason ) Pioneer 1970's amps, this includes the receivers from the x80 line.  For me at is a close call and my be specific example dependent.

r2


----------



## shuto77

r2muchstuff said:


> The Pioneer SA 7800, 8800 & 9800 have the lovely Fluorescent Display Tubes with a blue tinted window and the non-switching amp design.  So, lights and specs.
> 
> The SA 7500 II, 8500 II & 9500 II are not far off ( if at all ) on SQ and are priced less due to the demand for the pretty lights . Some claim that the non switching design is the best sounding ( insert reason ) Pioneer 1970's amps, this includes the receivers from the x80 line.  For me at is a close call and my be specific example dependent.
> 
> r2



In blind testing, do you think I could tell them apart driving my very efficient (modern) Klipsch RP160s?

I can just focus on sound signature, aesthetics and price since I really don't need crazy power.


----------



## OldRoadToad

shuto77 said:


> So this changes things.
> 
> I just need to find an integrated amp then.




Not really.  Simply ignore the tuner side and treat your receiver as an integrated.  I do not use the tuner on any of my receiver.  I use my Grace Digital radios as "tuners" and simply plug their out put in to either the Aux or Tape in put on a receiver.

Simple.  Fun.  Not a problem.

ORT


----------



## r2muchstuff (May 13, 2017)

shuto77 said:


> In blind testing, do you think I could tell them apart driving my very efficient (modern) Klipsch RP160s?
> 
> I can just focus on sound signature, aesthetics and price since I really don't need crazy power.




Only you can answer this, too many variables and they are your ears.  Telling them apart is one thing, deciding which is best for you is another.  I also find that a quick a/b (or series of back and forths) may lead to one conclusion and spending longer times getting to know components may lead to another conclusion.

Moving up a vintage line, receiver or intergrated or whatever component, is not just about power.  As you move up the line build quality, features, circuit designs, etc. also improve.  Even the country of assembly changes, not all vintage Japan brands made their entire lines in Japan.

Features such as phono sections, tone control circuits, number of inputs, attenuation included and if one or two steps ( useful feature, IMHO ) to list a few were price point dependent.

In receivers the quality of the tuner was/is a big factor.  Only TOL included 5 gang FM sections for example.

Just my experience and IMHO,

r2


----------



## OldRoadToad

shuto77 said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I'm just trying to get a handle on what respective models' values are, so I don't overpay.
> 
> I don't expect to get a fully restored receiver for $100.




I have purchased two very nice receivers for $150 each and another for $125.  They were from estate sales and were cleaned up nicely by the seller.  You will know the one you want when you see it and then hear it play your music.

ORT


----------



## northendjazz

Scored a Sansui SR-222 mkII turntable today, I had asked about a good starter turntable on here and while I have been looking it drifted out of my priorities. My Father stepped into the breach, not really his thing, I didn't think he would have anything but  "I have a good one" was his answer. A trip to His loft and out I came with the Sansui, it needs a belt and some oil and a tone arm retaining clip. Its likely to need a new cartridge, I'll take recommendations on that.  It was saved it from destruction in the mid-nineties so came free and now I owe my Father a bottle of his favorite whiskey.   
A little TLC and I can get some daily use.


----------



## ostewart

northendjazz said:


> Scored a Sansui SR-222 mkII turntable today, I had asked about a good starter turntable on here and while I have been looking it drifted out of my priorities. My Father stepped into the breach, not really his thing, I didn't think he would have anything but  "I have a good one" was his answer. A trip to His loft and out I came with the Sansui, it needs a belt and some oil and a tone arm retaining clip. Its likely to need a new cartridge, I'll take recommendations on that.  It was saved it from destruction in the mid-nineties so came free and now I owe my Father a bottle of his favorite whiskey.
> A little TLC and I can get some daily use.



Depending on your budget Ortofon do some great carts:

https://www.ortofon.com/ortofon-2m-red-p-317-n-1579

https://www.ortofon.com/ortofon-om-5e-p-551-n-1579

You also have the uber cheap AT95e from Audio Technica which is a great little cart:

https://eu.audio-technica.com/hifi-phono/cartridges/AT95E


----------



## northendjazz (May 15, 2017)

Thanks for the quick response, I'll have to order online but should have things sorted by the weekend.
Looking forward to it.

With a an image search I found that at the moment it has a NAGAOKA MP-10 cartridge fitted.
From the symbol of an A in circle I had no clue the companies name would begin with a letter N.


----------



## K1030

I have a Technics SA-828 New class A amp and I absolutely adore it. Bought it for 150 in working condition, paid 100 to have it professionally inspected, and perpetual enjoyment ensued. 

Having straight DC class A power to my T50rp's is great. It also has tonal controls but who cares, it has "dimension control". I literally get to cheat any headphone into having more soundstage. I just wish I had the actual specifications on the headphone output....or if I'll ever need another headphone amp.

My next experiment is to use Garage 1217's 1/4" to 3.5mm female attenuating adaptor for more efficient headphones. It claims it presents a 35ohm load and outputs 3ohm. Perfect for low impedance cans like the TH-X00


----------



## OldRoadToad

K1030 said:


> I have a Technics SA-828 New class A amp and I absolutely adore it. Bought it for 150 in working condition, paid 100 to have it professionally inspected, and perpetual enjoyment ensued.
> 
> Having straight DC class A power to my T50rp's is great. It also has tonal controls but who cares, it has "dimension control". I literally get to cheat any headphone into having more soundstage. I just wish I had the actual specifications on the headphone output....or if I'll ever need another headphone amp.
> 
> My next experiment is to use Garage 1217's 1/4" to 3.5mm female attenuating adaptor for more efficient headphones. It claims it presents a 35ohm load and outputs 3ohm. Perfect for low impedance cans like the TH-X00




With regard to you "may never need another amp", that may or may not be true.  But.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting another amp.  Later on.  Down the road.  Buy some music and enjoy what you have right now because the truth of audio that few want to admit is this -

With out the music, frAudiphiles (i.e., those golden eared wunder peepses that claim to hear stuff mere mortals can not) would be stuck listening to their equipment doing nothing.  Listen to the music that the equipment brings to not only your ears, but all so stirs  the memories that touch the heart and soul of what makes us human. 

Have a great time!

ORT


----------



## shuto77

OldRoadToad said:


> With regard to you "may never need another amp", that may or may not be true.  But.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting another amp.  Later on.  Down the road.  Buy some music and enjoy what you have right now because the truth of audio that few want to admit is this -
> 
> With out the music, frAudiphiles (i.e., those golden eared wunder peepses that claim to hear stuff mere mortals can not) would be stuck listening to their equipment doing nothing.  Listen to the music that the equipment brings to not only your ears, but all so stirs  the memories that touch the heart and soul of what makes us human.
> 
> ...



This is good advice!


----------



## OldRoadToad

I recently picked up an immaculate 50+1 CD changer by Sony.  It cost me $30 and came with a working remote and the owner's manual.

I enjoy CDs as much as I do records and "downloads".  Why? Because I enjoy music.  To be sure, vinyl is a tactile experience that CD comes close to and downloads can never aspire to but I do not buy music to hold but rather to hold on to.  In the mind.  Memories, old and yet to come make up the sound track of our lives.

A 70s era Receiver or Integrated Amp do not have CD inputs but they do have Tape and Aux inputs and that is what I use.  I all so have Laser Discs and a 400 disc Sony ES Blu Ray Changer.  And a 300 disc Sony CD CHanger.  And a TEAC CD Recorder.  And a 6 disc Onkyo CD Changer.  And Four (4!) turntables (1 or 2 more on the way!).  And the point of this nearly point less missive?

Physical media is here to stay but only if you want to get physical.  Or some thing like that...

I just ordered a FiiO X1-II because per some folks in the thread, it finally works as advertised.  I ordered it in Rose Gold because it will likely wind up going to my daughter.  My son has my X1-I and an iPod Nano.  He listens via 'phones more than does his sister.   She wanted "Beats" and I refused to buy a pair for reasons of high morality.  Endorsed by a cRap fArteest?  FTN of Beats and fApple.

She will get some thing from either Sennheiser or Sony.

Vintage?  Old, not obsolete.

ORT


----------



## northendjazz

The belt for the sr222 arrived, so I set up everything just temporary. This thing is sweet even without finishing up on the clean lube.  So if I want to run it out of my sansui g-401 and into my tube amp, do I use the tape out?  on play or record?


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

northendjazz said:


> The belt for the sr222 arrived, so I set up everything just temporary. This thing is sweet even without finishing up on the clean lube.  So if I want to run it out of my sansui g-401 and into my tube amp, do I use the tape out?  on play or record?



It would seem that would be the way to do it. Stupidly I have been using a splitter are the back of my amp, but I have to unplug the RCA's from my tube amp when playing vinyl for the signal to go to my integrated amp.

On my Marantz PM5005 it has 2 lots of outputs so the possibility to use 2 different devices, I shall test this in a couple of hourse when I get home,


----------



## r2muchstuff

northendjazz said:


> The belt for the sr222 arrived, so I set up everything just temporary. This thing is sweet even without finishing up on the clean lube.  So if I want to run it out of my sansui g-401 and into my tube amp, do I use the tape out?  on play or record?



Use "Tape - Record" (out) for a pass through signal from any input on the Sansui.  If the volume, tone, or other controls have no affect then it is a pass through.  This allows these old amps to serve an phono preamps and source selectors for other amps while maintaining full use of the vintage amp.

Just My Experience,

r2


----------



## shuto77

OldRoadToad said:


> I recently picked up an immaculate 50+1 CD changer by Sony.  It cost me $30 and came with a working remote and the owner's manual.
> 
> I enjoy CDs as much as I do records and "downloads".  Why? Because I enjoy music.  To be sure, vinyl is a tactile experience that CD comes close to and downloads can never aspire to but I do not buy music to hold but rather to hold on to.  In the mind.  Memories, old and yet to come make up the sound track of our lives.
> 
> ...



The only thing that could have made this post better is if you then told your daughter to get off your lawn. "But Dad, I live here."


----------



## r2muchstuff (May 18, 2017)

A few days ago, I received Beyerdynamic DT 880 Manufaktur 600 ohm.  Have been "running them in" and spot listening.  I purchased them, even though I am Beyer heavy, due to the great deal I found.  Now with around 50 hours on them, my early impression is that these Beyers are balanced, have incredible *imaging* and pair well with the Pioneer SA 9800.  What a great buy.

Happy,
r2


----------



## shuto77

Want to try this with my modern avr, but don't know how to group them.


----------



## OldRoadToad

shuto77 said:


> The only thing that could have made this post better is if you then told your daughter to get off your lawn. "But Dad, I live here."




I freely admit to despising cRap, Hippity-Hop and new age country, or as I call it "Hick-Hop".  Of course, this attitude carries over in to what I buy and I will never ever buy Beats nor will I subscribe to the stupid music serviceTidal Bowl and all because of the ASSociation with cRap.  And MQA?  FTN!

I do not have a lawn as I live in Southern California and had to let it die because of the drought.  

ORT


----------



## northendjazz

@shuto77  I have the same adapter but with banana plugs so the pic may help you 

 

I checked with song that starts with an instrument in the right channel.


----------



## shuto77

northendjazz said:


> @shuto77  I have the same adapter but with banana plugs so the pic may help you
> 
> I checked with song that starts with an instrument in the right channel.



Awesome, thanks. I'll give this a shot tonight to see how it goes.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

Use a multimeter to check continuity, here is the standard pinout:






I made a similar cable for some HE-500's a while ago:


----------



## K1030

Can someone help with this equation  I have an aux with 150mv input sensitivity and 22 kilohm input impedance....what would be the optimal output voltage from a source?


----------



## r2muchstuff

K1030 said:


> Can someone help with this equation  I have an aux with 150mv input sensitivity and 22 kilohm input impedance....what would be the optimal output voltage from a source?



Most vintage was speced at 2 volts on inputs, less = less volume, more = more volume and possible distortion.

IMHO,
r2


----------



## terry parr (May 21, 2017)

how's everybody doing here, on the vintage amplifier / receiver forum?

my Technics SA-500 has a couple of issues that will put it in for service.  there is some "scratchiness" in the volume pot (that hasn't responded to a couple of applications of compressed air and contact cleaner).  when I go to make a fine adjustment to the volume, I noticed today that a "pop" will be heard in the left speaker when moving the volume knob within that certain spot.  hopefully, the volume control mechanism can be dis-assembled, cleaned, and then put back together (re-soldered back on?) if necessary.

the other area of concern has to do with the balance between left and right.  and, this seems to be more noticeable with headphones rather than with the speakers engaged.  there seems to be less output on the left channel.  (which hints at the output transistor(s) in the left channel needing replacement). 

i'm happy with the overall sound quality that this receiver delivers, but I thought it would be a good time for the tech to do some other maintenance work, while he's at it.

any thoughts as to any pitfalls to avoid or what should definitely be done at this time to this unit, before any specific work is ordered?  (many are probably thinking:  "replace the caps."  yes.  but with what type? in other words, should I go with anything other than OEM?)   as far as I know, no work has ever been done to this receiver.  (nor has anything ever been done to my SONY STR-6055).

this speaks to the original build-quality of these pieces.   these two receivers that I own could've come with a 40-year parts warranty!


----------



## SpeakerBox

terry parr said:


> how's everybody doing here, on the vintage amplifier / receiver forum?
> 
> my Technics SA-500 has a couple of issues that will put it in for service.  there is some "scratchiness" in the volume pot (that hasn't responded to a couple of applications of compressed air and contact cleaner).  when I go to make a fine adjustment to the volume, I noticed today that a "pop" will be heard in the left speaker when moving the volume knob within that certain spot.  hopefully, the volume control mechanism can be dis-assembled, cleaned, and then put back together (re-soldered back on?) if necessary.
> 
> ...



The most likely cause I can think of for your problem is that the solder connection from the volume pot to the circuit board is loose (intermittent).  Have seen this many times in old receivers I have worked on.  Probably needs to be re-flowed.


----------



## K1030 (May 21, 2017)

terry parr said:


> how's everybody doing here, on the vintage amplifier / receiver forum?
> 
> my Technics SA-500 has a couple of issues that will put it in for service.  there is some "scratchiness" in the volume pot (that hasn't responded to a couple of applications of compressed air and contact cleaner).  when I go to make a fine adjustment to the volume, I noticed today that a "pop" will be heard in the left speaker when moving the volume knob within that certain spot.  hopefully, the volume control mechanism can be dis-assembled, cleaned, and then put back together (re-soldered back on?) if necessary.
> 
> ...



The next time my SA-828 has any issues or if I'm flushed with cash I want to modernize my speaker terminals to accept 10-gauge or 14/4 cables with banana plugs.


----------



## terry parr

K1030 said:


> The next time my SA-828 has any issues or if I'm flushed with cash I want to modernize my speaker terminals to accept 10-gauge or 14/4 cables with banana plugs.



plugging in your h/p's directly to your speaker taps should be approached with caution.  there's the potential for you to permanently damage your hearing, if you aren't careful. 

myself, I've just recently had the connection cables to my "can opener" (if you're not familiar with the product, google "can opener /  vinyl flat") adapted to have spade connectors on the speaker connection end, so that I have the can opener connected to the speaker outs of my SONY vintage receiver.  (although, honestly, the difference in the headphone out of the SONY, and connecting the can opener to the speaker outs, and then plugging-in the h/p to the can opener, is not that great).  I believe the can opener uses a fairly high-value resistor (or resistors) in order to maintain a safe listening level.  and, the STR-6055 already has an excellent headphone-out to begin with.   

but, if you're planning on a direct connection between headphones and speaker outs, be careful.  you need to protect your hearing.  we all do.  a lot of hearing damage is irreversible.

there are people here in this thread who are connecting directly to their speaker outs who can advise you further than I can.   

in the meantime,  enjoy your music, man.


----------



## terry parr

SpeakerBox said:


> The most likely cause I can think of for your problem is that the solder connection from the volume pot to the circuit board is loose (intermittent).  Have seen this many times in old receivers I have worked on.  Probably needs to be re-flowed.



appreciate it, SpeakerBox.


----------



## terry parr

K1030 said:


> The next time my SA-828 has any issues or if I'm flushed with cash I want to modernize my speaker terminals to accept 10-gauge or 14/4 cables with banana plugs.



K1030, ignore my previous post, as I think I completely mis-understood what you were talking about.   you're talking about modding the speaker terminals in your SA-828 so that it will accept a thicker, lower-gauge speaker cable than what you can currently use.   

o.k.  got it.  


don't know whether to blame my lack of reading comprehension or my poor eyesight.   (or, both!)    disregard and carry on.


----------



## K1030

terry parr said:


> K1030, ignore my previous post, as I think I completely mis-understood what you were talking about.   you're talking about modding the speaker terminals in your SA-828 so that it will accept a thicker, lower-gauge speaker cable than what you can currently use.
> 
> o.k.  got it.
> 
> ...



Haha yeah I wouldn't dare put my headphones through these speaker terminals, the headphone output is a beast. I'm already legally blind which is partly why listening is my favorite activity so I do appreciate the heads up...I depend on my hearing more than the average joe. I have 12 gauge wire crammed stuffed like a drug mule in there now but I'd like to upgrade to get the best connection possible. Especially since I'm running about 35 feet.


----------



## terry parr

K1030 said:


> Haha yeah I wouldn't dare put my headphones through these speaker terminals, the headphone output is a beast. I'm already legally blind which is partly why listening is my favorite activity so I do appreciate the heads up...I depend on my hearing more than the average joe. I have 12 gauge wire crammed stuffed like a drug mule in there now but I'd like to upgrade to get the best connection possible. Especially since I'm running about 35 feet.



at least you're in a position where you can just "sit tight" for a while, until you decide on which upgrade path to take.  the upgrade is something you _want_ to do, but don't _have_ to do, right now. 

I've just had an issue come up with the headphone jack of a JVC RX-317 receiver that I've had for years. sound cuts in-and-out with headphones (which means either fix it, or replace it).  well, I found out that the headphone jack is unavailable.  can't find these things.  the part would've cost $3.39 and cost $3.95 to ship.     but, I couldn't find this replacement part.  that's the risk we run sometimes with this older gear (and, especially with this particular piece, since it isn't considered a "respected, vintage" amp).   this un-assuming little receiver is flying under the radar and isn't appreciated by "those-in-the-know", because it doesn't have a pedigree or reputation.  so, there's no telling how many of these particular units have simply been tossed by people after they've stopped working. I really didn't expect to find the one I did on ebay.  i'm surprised the guy didn't just throw it out.  

came across one on ebay, and for $65.00, i'll get it in here from Houston, TX.  on or about the 12th.  if I find there's something wrong with it when I get it in here and hook it up, then I've just spent 65 bucks for a headphone jack.  (of course, knowing my luck, watch that to be the only issue with it!)  ha! 

seriously though, i'm not going to become a vintage gear collector.  three older receivers is enough.  

let us know what you end up doing as far as the speaker terminal mod goes.   (or, whether you just get another amp or receiver).   or, just decide to "stand pat" for a while.


----------



## roadcykler

Any of you folks in the Portland OR area, there is a Pioneer SX-1980 up for auction. The listing goes until Sunday and it's already over $1100.  https://www.shopgoodwill.com/auctions/Pioneer-SX-1980-Stereo-Receiver-Pick-Up-Only-40660005.html


----------



## PhoenixG

That looks like it could be a really high sale! Good spot


----------



## Monsterzero

Magic,circa early 1980s...Can anyone ID the equipment?Looks like a lot of McIntosh.



 He's rocking a pair of AKG K240 sextetts!


----------



## Skylab

The reel to reel is a Revox B77 MK II   Great deck...I have one!


----------



## OldRoadToad

The Cassette looks like a Nakamichi.

ORT


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> Magic,circa early 1980s...Can anyone ID the equipment?Looks like a lot of McIntosh.
> He's rocking a pair of AKG K240 sextetts!


That's a badass system, but he must have cooked those amps man. Absolutely no room to breath


----------



## SirMarc

Was at 999 posts, now 1000 lol


----------



## PhoenixG (Jun 24, 2017)

I think it's a mac 2120 and a mc72xx series on the bottom.
Edit: I just spotted the rest of it!
Preamp is a c-32, tuner is a MR80



monsterzero said:


> Magic,circa early 1980s...Can anyone ID the equipment?Looks like a lot of McIntosh.
> He's rocking a pair of AKG K240 sextetts!


----------



## musicman59

Yes, The Cassette deck looks like a Nakamichi Dragon and at the top right corner is a DBX 20/20 Equalizer.


----------



## OldRoadToad

I have been resisting buying more stuff lately.  If I can not put it to good use my self or give it to some one who will, I simply look.

And dream.  Vintage equipment has a cachet of style that is missing from so much of today's offerings. 

ORT


----------



## mneveux

I use a vintage McIntosh Mac 1900 as the heart of my system. I plug my HD-600's directly into the headphone out and it sounds fantastic. I use a Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC into one of the tape inputs.


----------



## mneveux

I use a vintage McIntosh Mac 1900 as the heart of my system. I plug my HD-600's directly into the headphone out and it sounds fantastic. I use a Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC into one of the tape inputs.


----------



## mneveux

I use a vintage McIntosh Mac 1900 as the heart of my system. I plug my HD-600's directly into the headphone out and it sounds fantastic. I use a Schiit Modi 2 Uber DAC into one of the tape inputs.


----------



## Music Alchemist (Jun 27, 2017)

Just got my first vintage receiver: a Kenwood KR-720!

I'm primarily going to use it to drive electrostats (such as the STAX SR-Λ; the original Lambda that began production in 1979) from the speaker taps with an electrostatic converter, but will also try it with conventional headphones. (And perhaps speakers later on...though my current speakers are active.)

Compared to most headphone amps, this thing is so gigantic and heavy.

I'm totally new to receivers, so bear with me here. I'm _assuming_ the following:


I can safely place other electronics on top of it for ergonomic purposes.
I should plug the RCA cables from my DAC into the RCA inputs on the left labeled phono instead of the other ones labeled tape/rec/play.
I can connect the speaker wires to the binding posts by untwisting them, pushing the wire into the holes on the sides, then twisting them tight.
I don't need to mess with anything technical and can simply plug it in and use it.

If any of this is incorrect, please let me know the proper way of going about things.


----------



## Monsterzero

Music Alchemist said:


> Just got my first vintage receiver: a Kenwood KR-720!
> 
> I'm primarily going to use it to drive electrostats (such as the STAX SR-Λ; the original Lambda that began production in 1979) from the speaker taps with an electrostatic converter, but will also try it with conventional headphones. (And perhaps speakers later on...though my current speakers are active.)
> 
> ...



1.i wouldnt place anything on top...the amps can/will get hot and need to breathe.
2.DAC out to RCA should go into tape or AUX,not phono.
3.wiring is correct.Just make sure the R/L wires do not touch each other.
4.anything vintage can need servicing,but yes typically its safe to give her a test run,but dont be shocked if there is static when turning knobs,or un-even volume lvls between R/L


----------



## Music Alchemist

monsterzero said:


> 2.DAC out to RCA should go into tape or AUX,not phono.



Thanks for the quick response!

So I should be good to go with the ones that say "tape A: play"?

Do you know what the story is with the unswitched and switched power cable inputs? (Doesn't seem to be related to the power cable it came with, which comes out elsewhere.)

Do you know what the loudness button on the front is for? (Does it just increase the available output power?)

*Here* is a photo of what the back looks like in case you aren't familiar.


----------



## PhoenixG

Music Alchemist said:


> Thanks for the quick response!
> 
> So I should be good to go with the ones that say "tape A: play"?
> 
> ...



The play input should work. Record is an output.

Switched/unswitched are power OUTPUTS. DON'T plug a power cable from the wall into them. A switched power output powers an accessory only when the receiver is on. Unswitched outputs always have power.

Loudness applies a fletcher-munson curve equalization to your receiver. It is for low-medium volume listening. It doesn't change your total available power. Google fletcher-munson curve to see what exactly happens when the button is pushed.


----------



## Monsterzero

Music Alchemist said:


> Thanks for the quick response!
> 
> So I should be good to go with the ones that say "tape A: play"?
> 
> ...



As what was said above,the "play" input *should *do the trick,though my Onkyo needs it to go into the REC input.....

Loudness button essentially(to my ears)is a bass+treble boost...it can be fun and addicting to use,but if youre after as pure a sound as possible I'd avoid it....but damn its fun!


----------



## Music Alchemist

PhoenixG said:


> Switched/unswitched are power OUTPUTS. DON'T plug a power cable from the wall into them. A switched power output powers an accessory only when the receiver is on. Unswitched outputs always have power.



I see. So it can basically power other devices. Can you give some examples of ones that would work? (And more importantly, that should be used in this way.)



monsterzero said:


> As what was said above,the "play" input *should *do the trick,though my Onkyo needs it to go into the REC input.....
> 
> Loudness button essentially(to my ears)is a bass+treble boost...it can be fun and addicting to use,but if youre after as pure a sound as possible I'd avoid it....but damn its fun!



Groovy. I hooked everything up and will have my first session with it soon.

I like how both of us have blue roses in our avatars at the moment.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 27, 2017)

Music Alchemist said:


> I see. So it can basically power other devices. Can you give some examples of ones that would work? (And more importantly, that should be used in this way.)



Dont quote me on this,but I used to plug CD players/tape decks/record players into those outlets back when I used to own such items...Never had any problems,but as I said that might not be the intended usage.





Music Alchemist said:


> Groovy. I hooked everything up and will have my first session with it soon.
> 
> I like how both of us have blue roses in our avatars at the moment.



Let us know how it goes...Looks like your receiver is a 40wpc early 80s model...Dont let the vintage bug bite you like it did me.I went from a 50 wpc to a 55 to a 100 and currently a 125wpc monster...Each step of the way there was improvement,and now I own(and use) all of my receivers.

And yes,theyre HUUUUUGEEEE!(thats a Mojo on top)


----------



## r2muchstuff (Jun 27, 2017)

Sansui AU 7700 Intergrated Amp is back from CLA and servicing.

Per HiFi Engine:
Power output: 54 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
Frequency response: 10Hz to 50kHz
Total harmonic distortion: 0.1%
Damping factor: 30
Signal to noise ratio: 75dB (MM), 85dB (DIN), 85dB (line)
Channel separation: 75dB (MM), 85dB (line)
Year: 1975

Testing and listening.

Setup # 1:
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit >Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > PYST RCA > Sansui Aux In > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup allows the use of all Sansui Pre Amp controls.

Set Up #2
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit > Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > Schiit Vali 2 with adapter for 6SN7 tube > Vali 2 Pre Out > PYST RCA > Sansui Main In > Sansui Combined/Separated Switch (Pre Amp/Main Amp) set to Separated) > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup only allows control of volume, the Sansui Pre Amp is off line.

Option:
Schiit Stack, no Sansui.

Three systems in a compact  space.
The DT 880 are recent to me, I am finding them a great fit for my Vintage.  The price/SQ makes them a good value for Vintage listening, IMHO.

My first Sansui in a long time,

R


----------



## OldRoadToad

Gentlemen, superb equipment all 'round.  Well done indeed.  Huzzah!

ORT


----------



## SpeakerBox

monsterzero said:


> Dont let the vintage bug bite you like it did me.I went from a 50 wpc to a 55 to a 100 and currently a 125wpc monster...Each step of the way there was improvement,and now I own(and use) all of my receivers.
> 
> And yes,theyre HUUUUUGEEEE!(thats a Mojo on top)



Know the feeling.  My trail ended at the 160WPC Pioneer SX-1250.  Have seen no need to upgrade from that point.


----------



## Music Alchemist

The Kenwood KR-720 has somewhat better sound quality and much more volume without distortion than the Lepai LP-2020TI when driving the STAX SR-Λ via the SRD-6SB. The 15 watt Lepai would distort more than 50% of the time at the levels I listen whereas it's more like 5% with the 40 watt Kenwood. (Electrostats require crazy amounts of power when you drive them this way. I'll try the headphone output with conventional headphones later.)

I'm not too worried about upgrading the receiver because I bought a STAX SRS-3100 (SR-L300 + SRM-252S) system yesterday. With much better headphones and a proper electrostatic amp to drive them, I get the feeling that I won't be inclined to keep the vintage STAX.

I really like the weight and feel of the knobs on the KR-720! Never got that feeling with modern equipment. (Even ultra-expensive stuff.)


----------



## Music Alchemist

Would I be able to use the KR-720 as a preamp for an electrostatic amp? If so, how? (I don't want to experiment without knowing what I'm doing.)

The reason I ask is because the DAC I downgraded to barely outputs over 1 volt, so with some tracks, my STAX amp gets pushed too hard and distorts. I could always get a DAC with higher output voltage, but wanted to see if I had a solution right under my nose first.


----------



## K1030

Music Alchemist said:


> Would I be able to use the KR-720 as a preamp for an electrostatic amp? If so, how? (I don't want to experiment without knowing what I'm doing.)
> 
> 
> 
> The reason I ask is because the DAC I downgraded to barely outputs over 1 volt, so with some tracks, my STAX amp gets pushed too hard and distorts. I could always get a DAC with higher output voltage, but wanted to see if I had a solution right under my nose first.



Without completely knowing your system setup I wouldn't necessarily want a preamp to lead to another amp a la your stax. If you have an AUX input or a tape input on the back of your Kenwood I would plug the dac into there, then I would use a tape record out as a fixed output to lead to the Stax amplifier and then listen to the headphones. Using a preout would involve two volume controls for one output. If there are preamps in the chain before the stax make sure they are turned up.


----------



## Music Alchemist

K1030 said:


> Without completely knowing your system setup I wouldn't necessarily want a preamp to lead to another amp a la your stax. If you have an AUX input or a tape input on the back of your Kenwood I would plug the dac into there, then I would use a tape record out as a fixed output to lead to the Stax amplifier and then listen to the headphones. Using a preout would involve two volume controls for one output. If there are preamps in the chain before the stax make sure they are turned up.



Thanks for the info. I hooked everything up that way and tried it...but there was no sound. Oh well.


----------



## K1030

Music Alchemist said:


> Thanks for the info. I hooked everything up that way and tried it...but there was no sound. Oh well.



Did you tryy both sets A and B? Also to trouble shoot try ising your phone or DAP to troubleshoot with a 3.5mm to rca and maybe see if those work  O have a funny feeling that there must be something along t audio chain that isn't turned up to full signal output before the 720


----------



## Music Alchemist

K1030 said:


> Did you tryy both sets A and B? Also to trouble shoot try ising your phone or DAP to troubleshoot with a 3.5mm to rca and maybe see if those work  O have a funny feeling that there must be something along t audio chain that isn't turned up to full signal output before the 720



I don't use phones or DAPs, and everything was at full signal output. I could try tape B instead of tape A, but why would it be any different?


----------



## K1030

Music Alchemist said:


> I don't use phones or DAPs, and everything was at full signal output. I could try tape B instead of tape A, but why would it be any different?



Tape A could have a bad connection or any multitude of issues so it's best to play around with each. Before I had my receiver serviced only aux would work well for me.


----------



## Music Alchemist

K1030 said:


> Tape A could have a bad connection or any multitude of issues so it's best to play around with each. Before I had my receiver serviced only aux would work well for me.



No dice. Tape B doesn't work for that either. (I at least know from before that tape A works fine for connecting a DAC and using the receiver's speaker taps.) Guess I'll have to get a different DAC after all.


----------



## nick n (Jul 1, 2017)

This might be stating the obvious, but just in case... do you have the function selector set to TAPE MONITOR  ( or equivalent on that receiver )when you tried that Tape Out to the Stax ampy?
Once I was messing around  checking imbalances in things and left the stereo/mono set to mono and couldn't figure out  why things sounded lackluster for a week lol
It happens.

Oh looking at it it shows indented button as Play, and unindented as Source. I guess unindented to allow the passthrough ? I dunno about that one. ?? Never hooked anything up like that.

hope you can figure that out.

On another note, did you search around for a manual in PDF form yet, one can usually find all that  online.


----------



## K1030

nick n said:


> This might be stating the obvious, but just in case... do you have the function selector set to TAPE MONITOR  ( or equivalent on that receiver )when you tried that Tape Out to the Stax ampy?
> Once I was messing around  checking imbalances in things and left the stereo/mono set to mono and couldn't figure out  why things sounded lackluster for a week lol
> It happens.
> 
> Oh looking at it it shows indented button as Play, and unindented as source. I guess unindented to allow the passthrough? I dunno about that one. ?? Never hooked anything up like that.





Music Alchemist said:


> No dice. Tape B doesn't work for that either. (I at least know from before that tape A works fine for connecting a DAC and using the receiver's speaker taps.) Guess I'll have to get a different DAC after all.



In the meantime you could use the headphone out to your stax and do your best to find the sweet spot of output power, but that's just a band aid imho.


----------



## Music Alchemist

K1030 said:


> In the meantime you could use the headphone out to your stax and do your best to find the sweet spot of output power, but that's just a band aid imho.



Yes, this is working surprisingly well! Now there are less tracks that are problematic and I have more available volume before it distorts.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Music Alchemist said:


> Would I be able to use the KR-720 as a preamp for an electrostatic amp? If so, how? (I don't want to experiment without knowing what I'm doing.)
> 
> The reason I ask is because the DAC I downgraded to barely outputs over 1 volt, so with some tracks, my STAX amp gets pushed too hard and distorts. I could always get a DAC with higher output voltage, but wanted to see if I had a solution right under my nose first.




Does the KR-720 have pre-amp in/out on the backside?   If so, I think it can be used to bypass the built in amplifier and use what ever amp you have connected to it.  This is not the same as the Tape  Monitor In/Out as those are used to monitor a 3 head cassette or in my case back in the mid 80s where I used the Tape monitor to put the equalizer into the loop for my Bose 901 speakers.  You need pre-amp in/out to be able to use and control another amplifier other than the one built in to your receiver.

For example my Onkyo TX-NR818 has the requisite pre-amp connections  should I ever desire more power to the main L & R front channels.  Which to date, I have no real need for.  A want, maybe. 
Others here can add to or correct my supposition regarding this "ugrade". 

Good luck!

ORT


----------



## Music Alchemist

OldRoadToad said:


> Does the KR-720 have pre-amp in/out on the backside?   If so, I think it can be used to bypass the built in amplifier and use what ever amp you have connected to it.  This is not the same as the Tape  Monitor In/Out as those are used to monitor a 3 head cassette or in my case back in the mid 80s where I used the Tape monitor to put the equalizer into the loop for my Bose 901 speakers.  You need pre-amp in/out to be able to use and control another amplifier other than the one built in to your receiver.
> 
> For example my Onkyo TX-NR818 has the requisite pre-amp connections  should I ever desire more power to the main L & R front channels.  Which to date, I have no real need for.  A want, maybe.
> Others here can add to or correct my supposition regarding this "ugrade".
> ...



If it has a preamp output, how would it be bypassing the built-in amp of the KR-720? The entire point of this would be to use its extra power, which I'm doing with the headphone output...but I still get distortion sometimes. It only gives me slightly more volume without distortion. Now what would _really_ suck is if I got a DAC that outputs 2 volts or higher and _still_ got the distortion.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Music Alchemist said:


> If it has a preamp output, how would it be bypassing the built-in amp of the KR-720? The entire point of this would be to use its extra power, which I'm doing with the headphone output...but I still get distortion sometimes. It only gives me slightly more volume without distortion. Now what would _really_ suck is if I got a DAC that outputs 2 volts or higher and _still_ got the distortion.



When using pre-amp in/out  going from the receiver to the stand alone amp and then back to the receiver, you are bypassing your internal amplifier(s).

ORT


----------



## Music Alchemist (Jul 3, 2017)

OldRoadToad said:


> When using pre-amp in/out  going from the receiver to the stand alone amp and then back to the receiver, you are bypassing your internal amplifier(s).



Huh? This is what the setup looked like:

computer > USB > DAC > RCA > tape A play inputs of receiver > headphone output of receiver > 1/4" to 1/8" adapter > 1/8" to dual RCA > electrostatic amp > electrostatic headphones

I wasn't using any outputs of the electrostatic amp aside from the headphone output, and it's impossible to bypass that amp because the electrostatic headphones can't work without it.

Anyway, I (reluctantly) sold the receiver along with the older STAX system. I'm hoping the JDS Labs OL DAC will fix the distortion issues with the STAX amp.


----------



## OldRoadToad

Music Alchemist said:


> Huh? This is what the setup looked like:
> 
> computer > USB > DAC > RCA > tape A play inputs of receiver > headphone output of receiver > 1/4" to 1/8" adapter > 1/8" to dual RCA > electrostatic amp > electrostatic headphones
> 
> ...




Oh.  I was talking about using the stand alone amp to power the receiver instead of the one built in to the receiver.  If I comprehend correctly (and I may not) you want this for only the headphone out put.

Ooops.  Sorry for my misunderstanding.

ORT


----------



## Music Alchemist

OldRoadToad said:


> Oh.  I was talking about using the stand alone amp to power the receiver instead of the one built in to the receiver.  If I comprehend correctly (and I may not) you want this for only the headphone out put.
> 
> Ooops.  Sorry for my misunderstanding.
> 
> ORT



I'm still not sure what your statements mean in the context of electrostatic headphones with 5- or 6-pin headphone cables that can only be connected to specialized equipment. You'd need to be more specific.


----------



## Silent One

r2muchstuff said:


> Sansui AU 7700 Intergrated Amp is back from CLA and servicing.
> 
> Per HiFi Engine:
> Power output: 54 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)
> ...





Drop. Dead. Gorgeous.

- Silent One | Team Sansui


----------



## r2muchstuff

On the Sansui,

After listening for a few days I am finding that the Vali 2 as pre amp for the Sansui Main Amp (Set up #2) is really fine.

Set up #1 is not bad either 

YMMV,
R


----------



## chickenmoon

richard51 said:


> Congratulations! Magnificent corner....
> 
> I am also a Sansui AU 7700 lucky owner... And you know what they say all these  Sansui owners : «For people that have owned Sansui amps, there seems to be two camps.The first are the owners who love their Amps and will never sell them.
> The second are the owners who sold their Amps and wish they hadn't.»



Got a 7700 delivered to me yesterday, wow, wow, wow, that sound, it literally buries my beloved 4400 in every way, amazing!


----------



## richard51 (Jul 13, 2017)

Chikenmoon if you dont have read it already....interesting experience by Emilien, an old repairman of amplifier about the Sansui AU-7700...That says all...

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/au-7700.shtml

Myself i enjoyed this amplifier most with some stones and crystals to clean the sonic field on top of the transformer...The final sound is detailed, and more silky than silk, i pay peanuts for this heavenly machine....


----------



## chickenmoon

Thanks, I think I've read it all by now. Some people say it's one of the very best Sansui and that it holds its own sonically against current £1000+ amps. I wouldn't know as I haven't any of those but the less than £250 I paid for it (including shipping) certainly feels like a bargain to me.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Listening a lot more to this:
Setup # 1:
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit >Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > PYST RCA > Sansui Aux In > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup allows the use of all Sansui Pre Amp controls.



 

I am more than happy with the results.  I had planned to sell the Sansui, maybe not 
r2


----------



## OldRoadToad

r2muchstuff said:


> Listening a lot more to this:
> Setup # 1:
> iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit >Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > PYST RCA > Sansui Aux In > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
> This setup allows the use of all Sansui Pre Amp controls.
> ...




That set up looks righteous!  Well done, indeed.

ORT


----------



## BobG55

r2muchstuff said:


> Listening a lot more to this:
> Setup # 1:
> iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit >Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > PYST RCA > Sansui Aux In > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
> This setup allows the use of all Sansui Pre Amp controls.
> ...




Wow !  I second OldRoadToad, very nice setup indeed.  Congrats.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Jul 25, 2017)

Here is the latest news.

Battle of the Amps, *this will take a while*.  I prefer to compare with longer listening sessions, not quick A/B test.
First impressions are .... these Amps have similar SQ.

Based on the specifications the amps *are* similar

The Pioneer SA 8500 has been serviced by the same shop that did the AU 7700.

Sanusi - 54 watts/channel @ 8 Ohms, < .1% THD, < .15% IM for Pre and Main Amps combined, < .1% IM Main Amp only - Headphone out uses 220 Ohm 1 Watt resistors
1974 -1976

Pioneer - 60 watts/channel @ 8 Ohms, < .1% THD, < .1% IM for Pre and Main Amps combined, - Headphone out uses 150 Ohm 2 Watt resistors
1975-1977

Setup:
Setup # 1:
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit > Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > PYST RCA > Sansui Aux In OR Pioneer Aux in > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup allows the use of all Pre Amp controls.

Set Up #2
iPod Nano 3rd Gen 8GB loaded with ALAC rips (Various Blues) from CDs > Pure Digital iPod Dock > Coax > Schiit Modi Multibit > Rigid Y cross connect v2 (for Schiit Stack) > Schiit Vali 2 with adapter for 6SN7 tube > Vali 2 Pre Out > Kenable RCA > Sansui OR Pioneer Main Amp IN (Sansui Combined/Separated Switch set to Separated, Pioneer jumpers from Pre to Main are removed) > Headphone Jack Out > Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms.
This setup only allows control of volume from the Vali 2, the Sansui & Pioneer Pre Amps are off line.

Note - The Beyerdynamic DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohms continue to impress me out of the Vintage Amps.

JMTC,
r2


----------



## richard51

i just bought a Sansui 1987 Au-x701.... Is this enough old to be called vintage?


----------



## BobG55 (Aug 5, 2017)

i just bought a Sansui 1987 Au-x701.... Is this enough old to be called vintage?


I did a search on the Internet & found some entries/ links which refer to the Au-x701 as a vintage amp.


----------



## richard51 (Aug 6, 2017)

BobG55 said:


> i just bought a Sansui 1987 Au-x701.... Is this enough old to be called vintage?
> 
> 
> I did a search on the Internet & found some entries/ links which refer to the Au-x701 as a vintage amp.




Thanks... i was not sure about this separation line between vintage and modern....

I think that the AU-x 701 is an audiophile amplifier of very good quality....The only problem i have with, perhaps linked to some synergy with my DT-150 or with my Mission speakers, is that the Au-7700 is also an audiophile marvel, more attuned probably with my gear, in one word i have listen to the Au-X701, 8 hours straight, and i was all along in shock by the difference with the Au-7700... On *Hifiengine* a guy named "emilien" , a repairman, say that the 7700 was one the best Sansui amplifier for him, period... I think he exagerated, i bought the AU-X701 alpha series amplifier, certain that will be an upgrade for me; by all reviews, a very good amplifier, hi-end one with very detailed imaging,yes, but less good for me than my 7700, that have more _tubelike mids to die for and more body to the sound with almost the same details imaging_, a bit less perhaps but more analog sounding than digital,more alive, and more real-life sound.... At the end i disconnect the AU-X701,   praying  that i will never need it....The Au-7700 has almost all i need...His headphone out is more than very good, in fact i think it is better than the headphone out of the 701.... And with Mission cyrus 781 speakers and beyerdynamic DT-150 it is perfect synergy... I will die with him... i now know what marvel that amplifier is , even a so called "better" alpha series amp is only different, and is only that, different, not really better, and in my case with the DT-150 less hi-end than my 7700...


----------



## richard51

i predict the victory of the Sansui AU-7700... i predict that you will not sell it....If i had the money i would buy a second one ,just in case....



r2muchstuff said:


> Here is the latest news.
> 
> Battle of the Amps, *this will take a while*.  I prefer to compare with longer listening sessions, not quick A/B test.
> First impressions are .... these Amps have similar SQ.
> ...


----------



## Little Bear

richard51 said:


> Thanks... i was not sure about this separation line between vintage and modern....



There's no objective cutoff that I've ever heard of, but IMO, to be considered vintage it has to have been produced before digital displays became the norm.  Before the 80's.


----------



## richard51 (Aug 11, 2017)

Little Bear said:


> There's no objective cutoff that I've ever heard of, but IMO, to be considered vintage it has to have been produced before digital displays became the norm.  Before the 80's.



I think you are right because there is no common ground between the sound of the Sansui AU-7700 of 1975 and the Sansui AU-X701 of 1988.... The 2 are excellent amplifier, but i must admit i prefer by a long shot with my speakers Mission Cyrus 781 the 7700 that sound analog, tube-like, and with more meat and body, with almost the same details than the 701...But the 701 is way more audiophile, clean, etc On a 10,000 dollars system perhaps that will be better, but with my actual bushmaster dac and mission , and headphone ,beyer DT-150, the 7700 is so liquid, organic, and astounding that i will not upgrade it, except if i inherit a fortune, and perhaps not, if you look for a vintage amplifier, the 7700 is on par with the best Sansui at an affordable price....The 701 of the sansui Alpha series is not better, only different.... My best regards to you...


----------



## Jabba

Hi,
I'm looking at different vintage amps and are a total vintage newbie.
Hope some will give feedback on the sound signature on the amps I've been looking at:
Akai aa-8030
Marantz 2220
Marantz 1070
Sony 7015
Sony 6050


----------



## PhoenixG

Haven't had the Akai, but I found marantz house sound to be a little to warm for me.
As the sony's go - I like the 6050. I like the sound, rich, detailed, good. Easy to repair if necessary. Very well made.
The 70xx series is almost as good as the 60xx series.



Jabba said:


> Hi,
> I'm looking at different vintage amps and are a total vintage newbie.
> Hope some will give feedback on the sound signature on the amps I've been looking at:
> Akai aa-8030
> ...


----------



## Jabba

PhoenixG said:


> Haven't had the Akai, but I found marantz house sound to be a little to warm for me.
> As the sony's go - I like the 6050. I like the sound, rich, detailed, good. Easy to repair if necessary. Very well made.
> The 70xx series is almost as good as the 60xx series.



Thanks
I really like the visuals of the Sony's, wood box, they also seem taken good care of.
I read some compared the akai 8080 with NAD160,  8030 is the little brother (same generation)
Also found a Pioneer 8100 just now.
Added to list 
Akai aa-8030
Marantz 2220
Marantz 1070
Sony 7015
Sony 6050
Pioneer 8100


----------



## i luvmusic 2 (Aug 16, 2017)

I was given a AKAI AM2600 it does work all the functions are all working except for the speaker jacks they are all push in and someone soldered some speaker wires onto the terminals instead of replacing the sockets so i replaced them.The VU meter light is not working i will be replacing that too.I think the BINDING POST are more expensive than the AMP....


----------



## penmarker

So the previous owner/technician decided its better to drill holes and run wires through, than to change the pinch posts.
Well... if it works, it works.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

It does work however it is not safe because if you're not careful it is easy to short those speaker wires they are exposed it does work for the previous owner but not for me not comfortable with those flying leads.


----------



## AWP3888 (Aug 29, 2017)

Oh man, I can't believe its been over 2 years since I started using that Pioneer SX-580 for a headphone amp. Full disclosure: my last post on this was way back in 2015!
  Still going strong, I use it 5 days out of the week to listen to while working at my desk. so that's going on about 500+ days (5 days/week) at anywhere from 4 to 8 hours listening.  I get tired of my headphones before I ever get tired of the amp output.  As to the questions above (that I never answered in a timely fashion) I plug into the Receiver at the Headphone Jack on the front face using the larger headphone-jack adapter that downsizes for a 3.5 stereo "mini" jack, which then has the extension plugged in which winds its way around my desk to the jack for the headphones themselves.  Overall I am very pleased with this setup, especially since it obviously have power to spare, but more importantly the Bass and Treble control knobs allow me to adjust the output reduce or increase as needed (yes they work very well).  And I have not had to replace that headphone-out stage resistor yet ( thank you Pioneer Japan Corp.).

I have been contemplating adding a DAC, because the output form my desktop workstation is ... well frankly its just crap.  My android phone is better, but only just so.  I've been following Schiit-Audio for a while and I believe I am close to pulling the trigger on a Modi-2. The other half of that equation is the headphones, which I began with a cheap pair of skullcandy over-ear closed backs, and then I went to the HiFi-man Waterline 400 ear-buds (which now reside in my back-pack so I don't forget them when I go to the gym).
  Now I find myself looking into on-ear or over-ear closed back headphones to use.  Recently I have been looking at the Beyerdyamnic 1350 and the Sennheiser 25 HD.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my 400's, but there is only so long my ear holes will tolerate those (my ears hate ear-plugs in general so...).  Then sometimes I wander over to the beautiful things like the Meze 99s.  Oh curse you Budgets, Curse you!  All the money in the world ... 

My biggest consideration is both comfort and lightweight.  Yes I care about sound quality, that's why we're all here.  But for 4-to-8 hours of non-stop music I do not need to induce neck problems and a headache at the end of the day.  So if any one has a good suggestion for a good pair in the $200-$300 budget range (or less), let me know your thoughts.

So I have the beefy Amp/Reciever and I'm sure a DAC will do wonders for that.  Now comes the math questions:  Will a Pioneer SX-580 with a 680-R1w resistor on the headphone output handle headphones with High Impedance. SX-580 is spec'd at 20-watts into 8-Ohms per channel (reduced at the headphone jack of course).  But will it survive running the 25-HDs which have an impedance of 70-ohms (granted that's at like 200 Milli-watts) or the 1350's at 80 ohms.  I'm sure in shear output an SX-580 could do the job from the actual speaker outputs (and blowup the drives doing it), it's getting that from the Headphone out on the front face that is the goal.

But I digress, the Pioneer SX-580 works and works very well for a headphone amp.  AND considering what one of those, or even the older brother SX-550 or SX-450 receivers, cost on the the ol' craiglist and ebay it might be a better deal than buying that very dedicated brand-new headphone amp the rest of you may have been eyeball'n.  Sure all the controls are analog, but that's part of the fun right?!!!  Old vintage late-1970's receiver for a headphone amp, with built-in AM/FM too, is good stuff in my book.
  Oh, did I mention I have a built-in PHONO stage on that SX-580 also?  No?  Shame on me.   :-D

 ... Wonder if my wife will let me get another one, hmmmmmm ...


----------



## K1030

AWP3888 said:


> Oh man, I can't believe its been over 2 years since I started using that Pioneer SX-580 for a headphone amp. Full disclosure: my last post on this was way back in 2015!
> Still going strong, I use it 5 days out of the week to listen to while working at my desk. so that's going on about 500+ days (5 days/week) at anywhere from 4 to 8 hours listening.  I get tired of my headphones before I ever get tired of the amp output.  As to the questions above (that I never answered in a timely fashion) I plug into the Receiver at the Headphone Jack on the front face using the larger headphone-jack adapter that downsizes for a 3.5 stereo "mini" jack, which then has the extension plugged in which winds its way around my desk to the jack for the headphones themselves.  Overall I am very pleased with this setup, especially since it obviously have power to spare, but more importantly the Bass and Treble control knobs allow me to adjust the output reduce or increase as needed (yes they work very well).  And I have not had to replace that headphone-out stage resistor yet ( thank you Pioneer Japan Corp.).
> 
> I have been contemplating adding a DAC, because the output form my desktop workstation is ... well frankly its just crap.  My android phone is better, but only just so.  I've been following Schiit-Audio for a while and I believe I am close to pulling the trigger on a Modi-2. The other half of that equation is the headphones, which I began with a cheap pair of skullcandy over-ear closed backs, and then I went to the HiFi-man Waterline 400 ear-buds (which now reside in my back-pack so I don't forget them when I go to the gym).
> ...



A Dac is a great add-on for a vintage amp. I found the Cirrus logic or sabre dacs worked best with my Technics SA-828 because of the clarity and transparency they put out. Some dacs like schitts AK4490 implementation I found added warmth to the sound that the amp was already providing so the end result was just a lil too dark for my taste. And as for headphones that amp will provide all the power you need. I use 250ohm BeyerDynamic DT770s and 50ohm planar Mayflower T50RPs and nothing comes close to what my amp does for my setup. Japanese steel baby.


----------



## AWP3888 (Aug 30, 2017)

Oh good g*d, I am such a duffus ...

"So I have the beefy Amp/Reciever and I'm sure a DAC will do wonders for that. Now comes the math questions: Will a Pioneer SX-580 with a 680-R1w resistor on the headphone output handle headphones with High Impedance. SX-580 is spec'd at 20-watts into 8-Ohms per channel (reduced at the headphone jack of course). But will it survive running the 25-HDs which have an impedance of 70-ohms (granted that's at like 200 Milli-watts) or the 1350's at 80 ohms. I'm sure in shear output an SX-580 could do the job from the actual speaker outputs (and blowup the drives doing it), it's getting that from the Headphone out on the front face that is the goal."

So did anyone catch my mistake?  Hmmmm.   So far No, so lucky me.  Impedance, which is listed in units of Ohms (#ohms or #-symbol for ohms), has a somewhat non-conventional way of being notated.  Where normal units of measure increase with increase in measured subject, Impedance (when noted in ohms) Decreases with increase in measured subject and decreases in measured subject and Increases with a decrease in the measured subject. "*Electrical impedance* is the measure of the opposition that a circuit presents to a current when a voltage is applied"~ Wikipedia. Also note "*admittance* is a measure of how easily a circuit or device will allow a current to flow."~ Wikipedia.

Exp.:  2-ohms has LESS impedance than 4-ohms but more current, 4-ohms has LESS impedance than 8-ohms but more current, 8-ohms has LESS impedance than 16-Ohms but more current, so on and so forth.
 > This is why my SX-580 will run basically any loudspeaker (pair) at not less than 10Watts/4ohms, but any load at/over 5watts/2ohms risks damaging it quite badly.

As far as Big Stereo Receivers go (and this is a generalization) The higher the # listed as -Ohms, the better the Amp will preform. The lower the # listed as -Ohms the more work the Amp has to do.  This is why matching impedance matters more than wattage.  Impedance mis-match has the potential to destroy your Amp (Low #-Ohms Speakers) or blow your speakers (High #-Ohms Speakers).  Confused yet?  Electrical Theory has a tendency to melt brains ( see Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark).

In my case (SX-580), I cant use speakers below 4-ohms impedance and I will *likely* destroy any speakers above 16-ohms.  Note that this would be from the main speaker output stage on the back of the receiver, the headphone stage is restricted with a resistor to prevent making me go deaf.

So in short a 70-ohm or 80-ohm load, especially at less than 5-watts is nothing for this receiver, even out of the Headphone output stage on the front face.
Really what I should be looking at are Headphone with impedance between 40-ohms and 20-ohms, 'cause yea the SX-580 can take it.
Still though I also should consider that my budget should probably also be between $250 and $350.  Has anyone seen a high impedance headphone for less than that?

In any case, there I have now corrected myself (yet again) .... Wow, I had a long day and a late night when I made that last post. Holy Cow batman, way to fail.

Anyone out there that is an Electrical Engineer please feel free to jump in here and correct me.

   *** Also remember to cite your sources ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admittance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_impedance

(edited ... yet again)
http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/speakers/speaker-impedance-rating/1092
http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm
http://www.toa.jp/soundoh_wiki/index.php?Difference between low and high impedance speakers?


----------



## AWP3888

Yea, I'm replying to my own post ....

Reading through the forums on Head-Fi I've noticed that questions about impedance, what that means for Amps & Headphones, and how we can use it come up frequently.
I have also seen in many of those same forums users posting that Impedance is not important.
I'm going to kindly agree to disagree with them on that point.
Impedance does not change sound, but does affect whether your AMP will power those Headphones (well or even at all). 

However, sometimes it is difficult to get an explanation about Impedance that can make it easier to use as an application for the situation to develop a working configuration for AMP-to-Headphone relationship.
That in mind, some quick Google-ing has led me to find some decent articles that do a better job of explaining Impedance than I can give (links below).

I know this might not be the best place to put this, but I would rather give good information out than just "mansplain" my way into being a Jacka**.

Short Answer is:
Where Source is the Amp, Destination is the Driver (Speaker, Headphone)
   > that the higher the Impedance at the destination the less current will be demanded by the destination and/or supplied by the Source
   > that the lower the Impedance at the destination the more current will be demanded by the destination and/or supplied by the Source (This is how you "Cook" an Amp)
   * It is more taxing on an AMP to deliver higher current than it is to push-through increased resistance. 

But don't just take my word for it, please please take the time to research impedance, the links below should be helpful to anyone who wants to better understand Impedance.
 - Because YES it DOES Matter.
---

Site: http://www.hometoys.com/content.php?url=/htinews/feb04/articles/polk/impedence.htm

Speaker Impedance, Your Amplifier And You. 
Understanding Impedance Will Help You Achieve Better System Performance. 
by Paul DiComo, Ken Swauger & Scott Orth 
Polk Audio, Inc.

Ref: http://www.hometoys.com/content.php?url=/htinews/feb04/articles/polk/impedence.htm

---

Site: https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-impedance-3134705

What Speaker Impedance Means and Why It Matters
by Brent Butterworth
Updated July 07, 2017

Ref: https://www.lifewire.com/speaker-impedance-3134705

---

   * Also, remember to site the sources if anyone re-posts this elsewhere


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey man, electrical engineer here. *Resistance* is the ability of a device to oppose DC current. *Impedance* is the complex resistive ability of a device to oppose AC current (i.e. all sound) and is frequency dependent. That's why impedance curves have such a massive impact on sound. A non-flat impedance curve is also known as a *filter* in the frequency domain. For many purposes, the two terms can be used interchangeably more or less.

Both are related to *current* by ohm's law, which states that current (i) = voltage (v) divided by resistance (ohms). Most amplifier designs effectively act as a 'constant voltage source', so lower impedance sources results in higher current.

Bottom line, your amp is designed to work in a range of 4-16 ohms. less than four ohms will look like a short circuit to your amp and cause excess current draw at lower volume knob positions, potentially allowing you to put out some expensive smoke from the amp. You will see clipping at lower volume knob positions, which could also damage your tweeters by shunting high frequency high power through them.

More than 16 ohms will look more kinda like an open circuit to your amplifier. *You won't damage anything, especially not your speakers*, but it also won't be very loud, as you will lose your ability to deliver peak current to your speakers. Most head phones are around 32 ohms, but can only handle a fraction of a watt before they are damaged, that's why you have a dropping resistor, to allow you to use the full volume knob swing (or at least more of it) before you smoke your headphones. It isn't uncommon to have high impedance phones with impedance greater than 600 ohms. They are often effectively driven by vintage 'high power' amps since those amps have the capability to achieve the voltage swings necessary to fully power those phones, despite their overall lower power consumption.

Don't confuse the volume knob with a power knob. Max volume typicaly relates to max voltage, not necessarily max power - that depends on what you have hooked up.

Regarding 'impedance matching', there's almost no difference between 20 ohms and 40 ohms or even 80 ohms. They may sound different, but that'll be because they _are different headphones_. You've got a 680 ohm dropping resistor, you've got to break through the margin of error before impedance will start having an appreciable effect on volume/sound. 

To use some numbers as an example - you have a 20W @ 8ohm machine. Using ohm's law, I find the peak voltage output to be 12.6 volts rms. Since your machine uses that same output for the headphones, but also has a dropping resistor, your peak voltage and power across your phones becomes complicated by what is known as a voltage divider, but effectively your max power from the HP out is 58 mW @ 680 ohms resistance and less at any other value (which is still a fair amount).

As far as headphones go, I love the HD6xx from massdrop (also known as HD650's). I own them and they are the best headphones period for $200.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx




AWP3888 said:


> Oh good g*d, I am such a duffus ...
> 
> "So I have the beefy Amp/Reciever and I'm sure a DAC will do wonders for that. Now comes the math questions: Will a Pioneer SX-580 with a 680-R1w resistor on the headphone output handle headphones with High Impedance. SX-580 is spec'd at 20-watts into 8-Ohms per channel (reduced at the headphone jack of course). But will it survive running the 25-HDs which have an impedance of 70-ohms (granted that's at like 200 Milli-watts) or the 1350's at 80 ohms. I'm sure in shear output an SX-580 could do the job from the actual speaker outputs (and blowup the drives doing it), it's getting that from the Headphone out on the front face that is the goal."
> 
> ...


----------



## AWP3888 (Aug 31, 2017)

PhoenixG said:


> Hey man, electrical engineer here. *Resistance* is the ability of a device to oppose DC current. *Impedance* is the complex resistive ability of a device to oppose AC current (i.e. all sound) and is frequency dependent. That's why impedance curves have such a massive impact on sound. A non-flat impedance curve is also known as a *filter* in the frequency domain. For many purposes, the two terms can be used interchangeably more or less.
> 
> Both are related to *current* by ohm's law, which states that current (i) = voltage (v) divided by resistance (ohms). Most amplifier designs effectively act as a 'constant voltage source', so lower impedance sources results in higher current.
> 
> ...



AWESOME, Thank you PhoenixG!

So now I have some *more* questions ....
If I were to create a spreadsheet using both the Ohms-Law (V=I*R) & Power-Law (P=I*V), Do I use the Current ( value for I ) as a constant value (not-changing)?

When I plug  the numbers into an online Calculator ( http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/ohms-law-calculator.htm ) I get the following:

Where Loudspeaker Power=20watts and Impedance=8ohms
Loudspeaker Voltage = 12.64911060 volts

Where Headphone Power=0.0580watts and Impedance=680ohms
Headphone Voltage = 6.32455530 volts
 (Voltage Divided = 12.64911060 / 2)

So for example if I have a headphone(s) that has an listed impedance of 150ohms, 200ohms, and 250ohms (respectively)  I would get the following result from the calculator (assuming Voltage is constant at 6.32455530 volts) from the Pioneer SX-580 Headphone jack:
Impedance (Ohms)                    Current (Amps)                    Voltage (Volts)                    Power (Milli-Watts)
150.0                                        0.0421637020                                        6.32455530                                        266.667
200.0                                        0.0316227765                                        6.32455530                                        200.000
250.0                                        0.0252982212                                        6.32455530                                        160.000

This would show that as Impedance (Ohms) increases the Amplifier will supply lower Power (Watts) as well as Lower Current (Amps), and the opposite relationship would be true also.
 > I found an interesting result when running numbers through that calculator ...

Impedance (Ohms)                    Current (Amperes)                    Voltage (Volts)                    Power (Milli-Watts)
160.0                                        0.0395284706                                        6.32455530                                        250.000
250.0                                        0.0252982212                                        6.32455530                                        160.000

 ... Sooo, does Voltage stay constant?
   ( for some reason I cant seem to format the number values in this post to not look like a string value)


----------



## PhoenixG

Whew! Let's me break out  my calculator here haha. 
FIrst thing first, you need to use max voltage as a constant. The voltage comes from your amp. That max voltage is a design feature you can't really change without unreasonable modifications. The change in voltage over time is also known (sometimes) as music when played through a speaker. For this purpose, we can pretend it is DC and nothing really changes in this case. Current isn't able to be assumed constant in this case as you have already established your amp as a constant voltage source (which is effectively true for 99% of the amps out there).
Your amplifier is capable of putting out 12.6-ish volts max. That's the number we go from. When you have a "simple" load of 8 ohms, it's easy to figure out power, current, etc. 

When you have two resistors in series you make what is known as a voltage divider. In that case, the voltage across each resistor is equal to total voltage X value of that resistance /  sum of all resistance. The input voltage can still be pretended to be constant, but the voltage across an element will be different. This is the situation at your hp jack.
I used the HP value of 680 ohms earlier as I already knew it would be your highest possible power output at 58miliwatts due to the properties of a voltage divider. Using a different value will give you a different solution.
SOoooooo volts across 150 ohm HP's = 12.6v X 150 /(150+680) = 2.27v
Where p=v^2/r, power = 2.27^2/150 = 34miliwatts. (15 miliamps)
Power across an element r1 of a voltage divider is ((v X r1/(r1+r2))^2)/r1
Now try saying that 5 times fast 

_"This would show that as Impedance (Ohms) increases the Amplifier will supply lower Power (Watts) as well as Lower Current (Amps), and the opposite relationship would be true also."_

Not really, since it is a square relationship, you have a peak power from your HP jack when the HP resistance is 680 ohms (i.e. equal to your dropping resistor!!!). 
150 ohms gives 34miliwatts, 15 miliamps
200 ohms gives 41miliwatts, 14 miliamps
250 ohms gives 45 miliwatts, 13 miliamps
680 ohms gives 58 miliwatts, 9 miliamps
820 ohms gives 57 miliwatts, 8 miliamps
9320 ohms gives 14 miliwatts, 1 miliamp
Your current is actually decreasing with the increased total resistance, but power also increases to a point.

Not a linear thing eh?

At the end of the day, you're just really not taxing your amp with literally any headphones ever. Furthermore, when you have enough power, it doesn't really matter what the impedance of the headphones is, but you can get some pretty cool behavior when your HP impedance is 'small' compared to your dropping resistor (which is why many amps 'sound different' from the HP jack vs the speaker taps and is kinda what keeps the vintage amp/modern HP hobby exciting). Final thing, your instinct is right to look for an electrical engineer, as it is a lot more nuanced than casual googling will turn up.



AWP3888 said:


> AWESOME, Thank you PhoenixG!
> 
> So now I have some *more* questions ....
> If I were to create a spreadsheet using both the Ohms-Law (V=I*R) & Power-Law (P=I*V), Do I use the Current ( value for I ) as a constant value (not-changing)?
> ...


----------



## r2muchstuff

Concerning this impedance stuff and the Battle of the Amps (see post #675):

Based on the specifications the amps *are* similar *(however look at the Headphone out resistors)*

The Pioneer SA 8500 has been serviced by the same shop that did the AU 7700.
Sanusi AU 7700 - 54 watts/channel @ 8 Ohms, < .1% THD, < .15% IM for Pre and Main Amps combined, < .1% IM Main Amp only - Headphone out uses *220 Ohm* 1 Watt resistors
1974 -1976
Pioneer SA 8500 - 60 watts/channel @ 8 Ohms, < .1% THD, < .1% IM for Pre and Main Amps combined, - Headphone out uses *150 Ohm* 2 Watt resistors
1975-1977

I am finding that at least some of the sound difference is most likely caused by the impedances that are presented to the headphones.

With the Beyerdynamic DT 880/600ohm -
The Sansui presents a warmer sound with less top end air.
If I use an "impedance adapter" (lowering the impedance the headphone "sees") with the Sansui the sound is less warm and closer to the Pioneer's sound.

I am currently trying the comparison using a set of Oppo PM-3 which are not as affected by the impedances.

In the end the impedances are part of the specific amps sound, unless they are changed to match each other or the speaker taps are used, the headphone outs will sound "like they sound".

With the Beyerdynamic DT 880, the Sansui is warmer with less air (*words always over describe subtle differences*).  I can listen to either presentation for time on end if I do not A/B them.  They both sound great.
However, now that I have done this and cannot undo it, at least with the DT 880/600 ohm, I prefer the Pioneer's presentation.

More listening with other headphones to come.

YMMV,
r2


----------



## anbinhv

Hi all, just got my HE-400, I have 1 question:
A mini amplifier like this: Kenwood R-SA7 could drive HE-400 well?
Thank you!


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

anbinhv said:


> Hi all, just got my HE-400, I have 1 question:
> A mini amplifier like this: Kenwood R-SA7 could drive HE-400 well?
> Thank you!



Should power them fine, I would even suggest getting a balanced cable for the HE-400 and then a 4-pin XLR to bare speaker wire and run the HE-400 from the speaker outputs instead of the headphone output.


----------



## anbinhv

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Should power them fine, I would even suggest getting a balanced cable for the HE-400 and then a 4-pin XLR to bare speaker wire and run the HE-400 from the speaker outputs instead of the headphone output.


Thanks you! I going to get this just to drive He-400 (because they are cheap here), so I dont have speakers.


----------



## northendjazz

I think I'm about done taming my Sansui G-401, the power of the headphone out was eaten up by the ZMF Vibro's but I wanted to try some beyerdynamic T90's.
I found the G-401 needed taming if I was to use the T90's , it was plain noisy with a heavy hum when nothing was playing and through quite passages of tunes, 
I added a grounding box to the ground terminal and that halved the noise.  The final piece was an iFi iematch and with that I can enjoy the T90's and the upgraded
dac a Metrum Acoustics Octave.

I also added some speakers for the first time they are Epos M5 bookshelf and I'll be giving them a proper listen tonight but impressed with a few familiar tracks so far.


----------



## r2muchstuff

northendjazz said:


> ...
> I found the G-401 needed taming if I was to use the T90's , it was plain noisy with a heavy hum when nothing was playing and through quite passages of tunes,
> 
> "Heavy Hum"  that sounds like the G-401 needs a trip to the Dr.
> ...


----------



## OldRoadToad

I picked this up today, ostensibly for a friend but they have not yet called me back, so...I like it's looks.  A lot.  I mentioned it and posted a photo of the player in the Schiit thread as I think it is a real beauty of a DVD/CD player.  It works well too.  I have it paired with my Pioneer Elite SX-N30 via a coaxial digital input but would be more than happy to have it along side my vintage Sony STR-6800 SD via a tape input.

Odd now that CD can be deemed "vintage" but perhaps that is generally true of physical media.  I like CDs, tape and vinyl.    Still trying to find a Sansui G5700 for my older brother.  That search led me to this player and if it remains with me, so much the better!







ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

Right now I am listening to the loverly and talented Jane Olivor on her "The Best of Jane Olivor" CD via the DV-37 being played through a Grace Digital Encore internet radio that sits on top of the player.

Quite good, actually.  I am such a fan of Miss Olivor.  Her Oscar nominated recording (with the great Johnny Mathis) of "The Last Time I Felt Like This" is included on this disc.  "Sigh"...

ORT


----------



## richard51

Right now i listen from my stupendous Sansui AU-7700 chet baker with Bill evans cd ...

By the way this pioneer cd player is a beauty, congratulations!


----------



## OldRoadToad

richard51 said:


> Right now i listen from my stupendous Sansui AU-7700 chet baker with Bill evans cd ...
> 
> By the way this pioneer cd player is a beauty, congratulations!



Sansui are GORGEOUS!!  I am still looking for a G5700 for my older brother.  One day...

Your choice in music is outstanding too and my thanks for the kind words regarding the CD player!

ORT


----------



## richard51

OldRoadToad said:


> Sansui are GORGEOUS!!  I am still looking for a G5700 for my older brother.  One day...
> 
> Your choice in music is outstanding too and my thanks for the kind words regarding the CD player!
> 
> ORT


thanks and good luck my friend....


----------



## KG Jag

OldRoadToad said:


> Sansui are GORGEOUS!!  I am still looking for a G5700 for my older brother.  One day...
> 
> Your choice in music is outstanding too and my thanks for the kind words regarding the CD player!
> 
> ORT



Picked up a G5700 this summer--very nice receiver.

Still have a bit more powerful all analog G series that I bought in about 1981.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Just finished restoring this Vintage Sherwood S-7200.  Sounds fabulous!


----------



## r2muchstuff (Oct 7, 2017)

My college system was based around a Sherwood S-7100.  I still have it, however it needs some work.


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone have any thoughts on the Luxman R-1050?


----------



## OldRoadToad

Rossliew said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on the Luxman R-1050?








Gorgeous.  Stunning.  Classic.  Stylish.  Desirable.  Eternal.

And should you buy one?  Envy.  And happy. For you.

ORT


----------



## Rossliew

OldRoadToad said:


> Gorgeous.  Stunning.  Classic.  Stylish.  Desirable.  Eternal.
> 
> And should you buy one?  Envy.  And happy. For you.
> 
> ORT



Yes, it does look gorgeous but the asking price may be a wee bit high at about $300 - you reckon?


----------



## OldRoadToad

Rossliew said:


> Yes, it does look gorgeous but the asking price may be a wee bit high at about $300 - you reckon?



If there are any memories attached to an item, then it's value goes up with them. My older brother had a Sansui G5700 and I might pay up to $200 for one in excellent condition.  Might.  And that would be my personal limit.

I have seen more than a few "monster" receivers of late with asking prices in the high hundreds.  Even if I were emotionally attached to one I would not  pay that much.  A toad's got to know his limits.  Mine currently ends at $200.  I have paid as much as $150 for a nice receiver in  very good condition. I have bought two at that price.  Both for family  members.  Your limit is where you feel comfortable placing it.

I want memories, not buyer's remorse.

All the best with what ever you decide, my friend!

ORT


----------



## atarione

Rossliew said:


> Yes, it does look gorgeous but the asking price may be a wee bit high at about $300 - you reckon?



is it restored /recapped? or is it just orig condition... and what is the condition overall.. if it is pretty minty it isn't silly overpriced for what these sell for.. but if it avg not so great a deal..

if it is a nice unit while it isn't a "score" it is a fair~ish (not rip off price)...


----------



## Rossliew

Thanks for the advice guys. Seller doesn't mention if it's recapped or serviced but the picture makes it out to be in pretty good condition on the exterior. Looks like I'll pass. Prefer something with VU meters


----------



## OldRoadToad

The main thing is to enjoy what ever vintage receiver or integrated amp  you buy.  For me, it must  have that "look" and I dare say that each of us has a "look" we are, well...looking for!

Unless you are into suffering (think Judaism and Catholicism), do not buy some thing that needs more resurrection than a can of Lemon Pledge and an old t-shirt.  You want to be satisfied not frustrated.

Have fun with the search and revel in the purchase.  Feast your eyes upon  the beauty and delight in the exquisite reproduction of music.  

ORT


----------



## atarione

Rossliew said:


> Thanks for the advice guys. Seller doesn't mention if it's recapped or serviced but the picture makes it out to be in pretty good condition on the exterior. Looks like I'll pass. Prefer something with VU meters



meters you say.. here is my Sony TA-N77ES... insane deal I got the whole Sony ES Stack for $75 true story (meter lights didn't work when I got it but I replaced them (twice..now they burnt out after a couple years again).. but meh..  200WPC 60~lbs


----------



## Rossliew

OldRoadToad said:


> The main thing is to enjoy what ever vintage receiver or integrated amp  you buy.  For me, it must  have that "look" and I dare say that each of us has a "look" we are, well...looking for!
> 
> Unless you are into suffering (think Judaism and Catholicism), do not buy some thing that needs more resurrection than a can of Lemon Pledge and an old t-shirt.  You want to be satisfied not frustrated.
> 
> ...



Well said. My search continues.


----------



## terry parr (Oct 19, 2017)

Interesting that you...By the way, how's everybody doing?  Hope everybody's enjoying their music with their vintage amps.  (I am!)  As I was saying, I found the mention of the beyerdynamic T90 interesting as this h/p seemed to exhibit a bit of "looseness" in the bass on my SONY STR-6055 (but I've got the "bass" control dialed-back on this amp now, so that keeps the bass from having that bit of distortion that I was hearing from time to time on different albums).   Maybe this SONY was sending just a bit too much (voltage?) from the h/p socket for the efficient drivers in this headphone.

Question for anyone knowledgeable who wants to chime-in:  Got someone lined-up to do some work on my *Technics SA-500*.  (It won't be a full restore, just some maintenance. Looking to get the main caps replaced, along with the output transistors).  The tech guy says some exact replacement parts are long since unavailable.   I Want replacement parts that will NOT make this receiver sound "warm".  I'd rather it tend more toward clinical and analytical, rather than sounding warmer.  I don't care for a warmer sound signature, at all.  My preference tends toward a sound sig that delivers clarity and detail.  (If the sound is a bit "bright", then I can dial it back with the treble control).  To me, this receiver sounds warm enough, as it is.

Any specific advice (as far as, "do this / don't do that") for anyone with direct experience is appreciated.

Glad to see this thread still active, by the way.  (And nice to read some recent posts by some of the regulars, here!)  Hope you guys are doing well.  Wanted to drop-in and say hello to everybody.  (And not miss the chance to get a bit of advice before the work starts on my Technics.)

Cheers, everyone!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hola folks,

So..... I just purchased a Sansui AU-101. I'm planning on using this to power my HE560 planars. 
My question is. Is it safe to connect directly to the speaker taps? I've used other speaker amps for that purpose , but never any vintage amps, and want to make sure I'm all good. 


Oh , and yes. Pics.


----------



## Gnomeplay

Guidostrunk said:


> Hola folks,
> 
> So..... I just purchased a Sansui AU-101. I'm planning on using this to power my HE560 planars.
> My question is. Is it safe to connect directly to the speaker taps? I've used other speaker amps for that purpose , but never any vintage amps, and want to make sure I'm all good.
> ...



I wouldn't worry about that, I've speaker tapped a pair of LCD2s to a whole variety of different vintage amps from 65 to 150wpc with no issues. Just make sure your volume control is turned all of the way down. Also turn that "loudness" switch to the off position on the front of your receiver when you use headphones. The HE560 is obviously quite a bit more efficient than what I was using, but being a planar it should still eat all of that up.

One more thing that I will mention, I don't know for your specific receiver, but a lot of vintage gear has a higher power rating straight out of the headphone jack than anything does now days. The headphone jack on my Pioneer SX-850 drove LCD2s so well that it made me sell my liquid fire.


----------



## Jabba

+1
I was surprised how well the headphone out on a Pioneer sa-8100 could drive my he-560.


----------



## Gnomeplay

Jabba said:


> +1
> I was surprised how well the headphone out on a Pioneer sa-8100 could drive my he-560.


It really is the best kept secret around here. I actually just bought a silver face Marantz today off of craigslist for $20. The guy claimed that the left channel didn't work, turns out all it took was 15 minutes and an air compressor to return it to near mint condition. Was a great pick up as my Pioneer has a little bit too much juice for my Grados. The Marantz at 30wpc has a completely silent background. I'm seriously digging it.

I'm sure they don't measure as well as these several thousand dollar headphone amplifiers, but as far as musicality, power, and an overall pleasant experience goes, vintage receivers have outperformed every headphone amp that I've ever tried, including high end Cavalli, Schiit, and Woo products and at an extreme fraction of the cost.


----------



## robrob (Oct 21, 2017)

I recently picked up a Pioneer SX-1080 from my local Craigslist and on a whim tried it with my modified and balanced Fostex T50RP and Sennheiser HD6XX headphones and I'm really impressed with the tone. I actually prefer the Fostex over the Senns. I liked it so much I was going to create a new post here on Head-Fi but found this monster thread instead. The old 1080 beats the crap out of my Schiit Muolnir and Grungnir pair. I also have a Sansui G-8000 receiver, Sansui BA-2000 power amp and Marantz 4400 quad receiver (all late '70s gear) that I plan to sample with direct headphone connection.


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## Monsterzero

Guidostrunk said:


> My question is. Is it safe to connect directly to the speaker taps? I've used other speaker amps for that purpose , but never any vintage amps, and want to make sure I'm all good.
> 
> 
> Oh , and yes. Pics.



Yup,youre good. Have been using my vintage gear taps to drive my newly departed HE-6,as well as my ZMF headphones.
Just watch the volume and enjoy.


----------



## Gnomeplay

robrob said:


> I recently picked up a Pioneer SX-1080 from my local Craigslist and on a whim tried it with my modified and balanced Fostex T50RP and Sennheiser HD6XX headphones and I'm really impressed with the tone. I actually prefer the Fostex over the Senns. I liked it so much I was going to create a new post here on Head-Fi but found this monster thread instead. The old 1080 beats the crap out of my Schiit Muolnir and Grungnir pair. I also have a Sansui G-8000 receiver, Sansui BA-2000 power amp and Marantz 4400 quad receiver (all late '70s gear) that I plan to sample with direct headphone connection.



Would certainly be interested to see what you have to say in comparing them. I'm still trying to figure out which brand suits my tastes for receivers. My serious interest right now is in a high end Sansui or a Fisher tube receiver. I've tried most of the more common brands at a mid ranged price.


----------



## robrob

I'll follow up when I try the Marantz and Sansui amps. I absolutely love the G-8000 with JBL and Klipsch speakers.


----------



## SpeakerBox

terry parr said:


> Question for anyone knowledgeable who wants to chime-in:  Got someone lined-up to do some work on my *Technics SA-500*.  (It won't be a full restore, just some maintenance. Looking to get the main caps replaced, along with the output transistors).  The tech guy says some exact replacement parts are long since unavailable.   I Want replacement parts that will NOT make this receiver sound "warm".  I'd rather it tend more toward clinical and analytical, rather than sounding warmer.  I don't care for a warmer sound signature, at all.  My preference tends toward a sound sig that delivers clarity and detail.  (If the sound is a bit "bright", then I can dial it back with the treble control).  To me, this receiver sounds warm enough, as it is.
> 
> Any specific advice (as far as, "do this / don't do that") for anyone with direct experience is appreciated.



A couple of things I like to do during upgrades:

1.) Anywhere possible I replace electrolytic caps with film.  It makes a huge difference in the sound if you can fit them in.  Film will always take more space.
2.) Replace all other electrolytic caps with audio grade Nichicon as they always sound clean and detailed to me.

In addition, I tend to prefer the Pioneer sound over others because they seem much cleaner and more detailed than than similar offerings from Marantz.  I have an SX-1250 which is really my goto amp.


----------



## r2muchstuff

SpeakerBox said:


> A couple of things   ...
> In addition, I tend to prefer the Pioneer sound over others because they seem much cleaner and more detailed than  similar offerings from Marantz.  I have an SX-1250 which is really my goto amp.




Glad to hear that you prefer the Pioneer.  In my Pioneer vs Sansui comparison I keep coming to the conclusion that the Pioneer is better.  I have had a lot going on so I have not completed the testing or written up my thoughts other than the short preview a few pages back.  I am finding the Pioneer more detailed and clearer than the Sansui.  The Sansui does have a great toe taping sound.  It is only in direct comparison where the Pioneer "wins".  Either in a solo session is just wonderful.  But once I hear, I am stuck in my knowing.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Hello folks,

Does anyone happen to know of a reputable service and repair center for these vintage amps? I live in Pittsburgh Pa , and was wondering if there's possibly anyone close to me. If not I'm willing to ship my amp to a trusted place. 

I'm mainly looking to have it serviced and recapped. 

Cheers, 
Sam


----------



## Monsterzero

Guidostrunk said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> Does anyone happen to know of a reputable service and repair center for these vintage amps? I live in Pittsburgh Pa , and was wondering if there's possibly anyone close to me. If not I'm willing to ship my amp to a trusted place.
> 
> ...



A quick Google turned up

http://galaxieelectronics.com/
http://www.progressiveelectronicspgh.com/
https://www.manta.com/cp/mtgsz7s/4ef31df72689a7913a1e640f/audio-equipment-repair-services


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks bro. I saw those. Seems that galaxie has some excellent reviews. 





monsterzero said:


> A quick Google turned up
> 
> http://galaxieelectronics.com/
> http://www.progressiveelectronicspgh.com/
> https://www.manta.com/cp/mtgsz7s/4ef31df72689a7913a1e640f/audio-equipment-repair-services


----------



## terry parr

SpeakerBox said:


> A couple of things I like to do during upgrades:
> 
> 1.) Anywhere possible I replace electrolytic caps with film.  It makes a huge difference in the sound if you can fit them in.  Film will always take more space.
> 2.) Replace all other electrolytic caps with audio grade Nichicon as they always sound clean and detailed to me.
> ...




Appreciate it, SpeakerBox.        Looking foreward to getting the work done on it and hearing how it sounds.  I'll take your same advice when it comes to having some work done (eventually) on my SONY STR 6055.  

Some of these older receivers were built so well at the time that they could've come with a 40 year parts warranty!


----------



## arteom

Have been using a Luxman L100 integrated with my HD-650's lately. Sound is very musical. Does a better job of detail retrieval than expected from vintage gear, but doesn't match up to modern headphone amps. Output doesn't sound underpowered, which is a plus.


----------



## robrob (Oct 26, 2017)

I got a chance to listen to the Marantz 4400 Quad and Sansui G-8000 with the T50RP headphones connected to the speaker outs and the headphone jack. They both sound great but I'd have to give the nod to the Pioneer SX-1080 as the best with the headphones, the Sansui next and the Marantz a close third.

When using the headphone jacks I had to turn the volume knob up an additional 20% to get the same volume as the direct-to-speaker out connection with both the Marantz and Sansui. The direct speaker out seemed to sound better. I believe both of these amps use an attenuation circuit and not a separate headphone amp. The attenuation circuit seems to dull the amp's response a little.


----------



## Monsterzero

robrob said:


> I believe both of these amps use an attenuation circuit and not a separate headphone amp. The attenuation circuit seems to dull the amp's response a little.



Nice looking gear....

I agree with the above statement.I run my ZMF headphones direct from taps and the sound is just a tad bit cleaner vs. the HP jack.


----------



## PhoenixG

Beautiful photos! Great write up.
Is that speaker tap adapter a box you made yourself? If not, what model is it?



robrob said:


> I got a chance to listen to the Marantz 4400 Quad and Sansui G-8000 with the T50RP headphones connected to the speaker outs and the headphone jack. They both sound great but I'd have to give the nod to the Pioneer SX-1080 as the best with the headphones, the Sansui next and the Marantz a close third.
> 
> When using the headphone jacks I had to turn the volume knob up an additional 20% to get the same volume as the direct-to-speaker out connection with both the Marantz and Sansui. The direct speaker out seemed to sound better. I believe both of these amps use an attenuation circuit and not a separate headphone amp. The attenuation circuit seems to dull the amp's response a little.


----------



## robrob

PhoenixG said:


> Is that speaker tap adapter a box you made yourself? If not, what model is it?



It's my design: https://robrobinette.com/RobinetteBox.htm


----------



## Jabba

Thanks for sharing robrob


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## Monsterzero

Pardon if the question is ignorant but...If there are resistors in place in your box how is it different then a standard HP jack on vintage gear,which also is a simple in-line resistor?


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## robrob (Oct 27, 2017)

The box has a bypass switch that makes a direct connection. I can run direct or with attenuation. There's also a switch to allow balanced and unbalanced headphones to  run on balanced and unbalanced amp outputs. Typically solid state amps run headphones fine with a direct connection but tube amps like a matched load and the attenuation circuit will load the amp with 7.9 ohms even with a 600 ohm headphone.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Well folks, I'm in complete awe with my 1973 Sansui AU-101. I've always been intrigued by this thread , and finally took the plunge, going vintage. 

I've been running a pair of HE560's , directly off the taps, from a Scott Nixon tube dac+ , w/3XAC power supply. 

I really didn't know what to expect when I made the decision. I've had some pretty decent headphone amps over the years , but this Sansui is nothing short of STUNNING in sound. The realism , and power behind the notes is staggering! I've never heard bass reproduction on this level from anything I've previously owned. The soundstage , and imaging are the most holographic, and spacious thing I've heard to date. This thing just breathes music! 
One of my main concerns, or should I say. Preconceived notions was that the sound would be dry, and the background would be filled with hiss. Man was I wrong! The background is dead quiet! The sound is far from dry. 

What amazes me the most. Is I paid $60 bucks for this old amp. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this whole thing. It's freakishly good! There's no way I could ever go back to a headphone amp after this experience. 

Un-freaking-believable!


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## Jabba (Oct 28, 2017)

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks, I'm in complete awe with my 1973 Sansui AU-101.
> I've been running a pair of HE560


I also think the He-560 sounds amazing on some vintage amps (I've tried Akai, Pioneer and Sansui's).
The He-560 needs some "smoothing" of it's sound by my ears. Some vintage amps removes the edge on he-560 and makes them so musical.
Early 70 is by some regarded as the peak in build quality and sound.
Sansui had some amazing amps and reciever's in the 70's.


----------



## robrob

I have HE-500 and Senn HD 6XX cans but my modified and balanced Fostex T50RPs sound best to me when driven by speaker amps. As Guido mentioned, the biggest difference is the solid, hard hitting bass response.


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone with a 230V Pioneer SX-1250/1280 they wanna sell me?


----------



## Monsterzero

Guidostrunk said:


> Well folks, I'm in complete awe with my 1973 Sansui AU-101. I've always been intrigued by this thread , and finally took the plunge, going vintage.
> 
> I've been running a pair of HE560's , directly off the taps, from a Scott Nixon tube dac+ , w/3XAC power supply.
> 
> ...



I think i made this exact same post some two years ago when I bought a beat-up Sansui 881 for 110.00.A couple years later and 5 vintage receivers later,its hard to go back to dedicated gear.

Welcome to the club!


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## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## SpeakerBox

robrob said:


> They both sound great but I'd have to give the nod to the Pioneer SX-1080 as the best with the headphones, the Sansui next and the Marantz a close third.



Have you restored the 1080?  The difference is stunning.  I actually did not like my 1250 pre-restoration.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Guidostrunk said:


> What amazes me the most. Is I paid $60 bucks for this old amp. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this whole thing. It's freakishly good! There's no way I could ever go back to a headphone amp after this experience.
> 
> Un-freaking-believable!



Similar experience with the SX-1250.  Nothing drives my HD-600s like that amp!


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks man! It really is insane! I'm definitely a permanent convert.





monsterzero said:


> I think i made this exact same post some two years ago when I bought a beat-up Sansui 881 for 110.00.A couple years later and 5 vintage receivers later,its hard to go back to dedicated gear.
> 
> Welcome to the club!


----------



## Monsterzero

OldRoadToad said:


> It is too bad that makers of headphone dedicated amplifiers do not take a page from the Harley-Davidson playbook and pay homage to the past with a nod to the present and future.  For that matter, stereo receivers could be made that pay stylistic homage to the 70s whilst being firmly planted in the here and now.
> 
> ORT



There is this product,which I rarely see discussed around this forum.No clue as to how good it actually is,but I think that if someone were to release a truly retro looking modern receiver that was good the price of true vintage would go even higher then they already are


----------



## KG Jag

monsterzero said:


> There is this product,which I rarely see discussed around this forum.No clue as to how good it actually is,but I think that if someone were to release a truly retro looking modern receiver that was good the price of true vintage would go even higher then they already are



"this product" = 5.8 kg

1978-79 Sansui G-7500 = 17.2 kg


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## richard51 (Oct 28, 2017)

My Sansui AU 7700 is from the headphone out so amazing, that he drive my AKG K 340 to perfection with a 3 d holographic sound imaging.... After that how to go back to an headphone amplifier south to 1000 bucks ? By the way his sound is detailed and more tubelike smooth than my Ember amplifier...

After all that i have bought another amazing Sansui a kind of precaution.... the sansui AUx-701...

Vintage amplifier are the _secret way_ to audiophile level  listening at low cost, i read that here and learn my lesson here some years ago....My Sansui are so good that i dont look for ANY other amplifier...At any cost.... Why paying thousands bucks for perhaps a little better?   If you look  not only at his sound quality but at the incredible flexibility of the Sansui Au 7700,  any other amplifier is a risk  and a potential deception to buy, even another Sansui, i know because i have another one, and one of the best Sansui....

if you are filthy rich buy a TOTL amp at least of 10,000 dollars,but if you are ordinary folk like me, smile, buy a cheap Sansui and forget any other thing, the truth will be in the listening, with the bucks saved invite your wife in a great restaurant....

And remember:  please do not speak about Sansui to anyone and delete all this thread  if you can because price will be going to the roof if audiophile newbies awake of their  Hype-new- headphone-amplifier- night- dream- walking crowd


----------



## SirMarc

Guidostrunk said:


> Thanks man! It really is insane! I'm definitely a permanent convert.


Welcome my good man. Whatever you do, don't hook up a turntable and speakers to the Sansui, because like me all your headphones may start collecting dust lol


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## richard51 (Oct 28, 2017)

SirMarc said:


> Welcome my good man. Whatever you do, don't hook up a turntable and speakers to the Sansui, because like me all your headphones may start collecting dust lol



Except if you buy an AKG K 340 headphone for your Sansui  and _damp it rightly_, after that if your speakers are not TOTL, you will sell them...


----------



## Rossliew

I'm looking at picking up an unrestored AU555A and the ,Luxman R1050 ....


----------



## richard51 (Oct 29, 2017)

It seems like 2 amazing, and wise choices....  Go and report here your experience,  it seems you cannot go wrong with these....but restoration, at least replacing electrolytic caps is mandatory on a 40 years old amp .... My restoration cost me the same price than the amp but the result for the last 2 years were astounding... Sansui  madness is not a hype phenomenon but the resulting effect of ears nirvana that subsequently preach audio illumination at relatively  low cost ......Anyway try it without restoration first, if the sound is amazing go without that....


----------



## Rossliew

I'm very keen except for the price which seems to be overly inflated and one does not know the exact condition on the inside. For the two it would cost approximately the equivalent to US$500...whatcha peeps think?


----------



## richard51

why do you want to buy two? and why a receiver? it seems for me that it is a bit pricey....they are not restored....


----------



## Rossliew

They look good and yes I do believe they are overpriced. I've decided to pass unless I find one with VU meters


----------



## KG Jag

Rossliew said:


> I'm very keen except for the price which seems to be overly inflated and one does not know the exact condition on the inside. For the two it would cost approximately the equivalent to US$500...whatcha peeps think?



I would recommend that you buy a fully restored unit or at least one that has been recently been checked and serviced by a qualified tech.

The other option is find a cheap, fully functioning unit that looks decent and is not missing parts (e.g. dials, switches, etc.).  That way you will have a budget for repair or reconditioning that might be needed.  An example is the Yamaha R-700 receiver I picked up this summer for $50.


----------



## Rossliew

You guys in the States get it lucky in a way. Over here in Malaysia, these vintages are so hyped up they sell for north of US$200 on average even those that are unrestored.


----------



## KG Jag

Rossliew said:


> You guys in the States get it lucky in a way. Over here in Malaysia, these vintages are so hyped up they sell for north of US$200 on average even those that are unrestored.



Some of us are also so old that we still have the vintage stuff we bought in the 1970's and early 80's.


----------



## Jabba

Rossliew said:


> I'm looking at picking up an unrestored AU555A and the ,Luxman R1050 ....


They both should be good choices if they're in good shape.
But why not see if you could find a nice one for the same price as these 2?
Preferably a restored one.


----------



## Monsterzero

Rossliew said:


> You guys in the States get it lucky in a way. Over here in Malaysia, these vintages are so hyped up they sell for north of US$200 on average even those that are unrestored.



I got news man,theyre way over 200 bucks here too...Prices are sky high everywhere.Looking into getting a big monster Sansui 9090,and thats an easy 1000.00


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## Jabba (Oct 29, 2017)

I see many middel aged people with vintage gear and there is a lot of interest to own the dream gear from when you where young.
Also the interest for vinyl records and old amps have good phono boards and sound.
For me it has high WAF, reminds me of childhood and the music on that time was mastered to sound good on this equipment (I think all music sound good)
High end equipment of today is (insanely) expensive, some of vintage totl are almost in the same league if restored.
I think this is some of the  reasons for the prices going up on vintage.


----------



## Jabba

My sa-8100 newly wax'ed and polished.
Some small scratches in the brushed metal. 
Any tips to fix or make them less visible?


----------



## Jabba (Oct 29, 2017)

Without direct light


----------



## hawkhead

Jabba said:


> My sa-8100 newly wax'ed and polished.
> Some small scratches in the brushed metal.
> Any tips to fix or make them less visible?



Use a Scotch brite pad (or similar pad)

Maybe experiment first on another piece of ali


----------



## Rossliew

Jabbahead, that's a beautiful piece of vintage you have there! 

Prices of vintages here is just insanely high relative to what modern equipment goes for, taking into account the age and condition of the items. Most, if not all, are usually unrestored - at best only the caps have been replaced.

My search for a TOTL Pioneer SX-series receiver continues...


----------



## terry parr

Jabba said:


> My sa-8100 newly wax'ed and polished.
> Some small scratches in the brushed metal.
> Any tips to fix or make them less visible?




 I can understand the desire to get it "_that_ much better-looking."  However, sometimes we're better off "leaving well-enough alone."  

 Don't cause 30% more damage to the looks in an effort to make it look 10% better than it does now.  Just make sure any cleaner will be an improvement, and that you don't end up taking a step backwards.  


Great-looking piece of gear!


----------



## SirMarc

monsterzero said:


> I got news man,theyre way over 200 bucks here too...Prices are sky high everywhere.Looking into getting a big monster Sansui 9090,and thats an easy 1000.00


If it's been restored or at least brought back up to factory spec by a good tech, it's worth it. The 9090 is a fantastic sounding receiver.


----------



## Monsterzero

Have you ever a/b it vs. another monster? I see many folks preferring the Pioneer 1250 vs the 9090,but i not only love the Sansui house sound,but the 9090 is simply eye candy for me,whereas I find the Pioneers looks to be kinda meh(no offense)


----------



## richard51 (Oct 29, 2017)

monsterzero said:


> Have you ever a/b it vs. another monster? I see many folks preferring the Pioneer 1250 vs the 9090,but i not only love the Sansui house sound,but the 9090 is simply eye candy for me,whereas I find the Pioneers looks to be kinda meh(no offense)



Hi! Monsterzero,
What vintage amplifier do you use for your AKG K 340? And by the way how do you compare them with your other headphones?  I am very curious about your impressions...From my Sansui AU-7700 the Akg K 340 are astounding for me....Kills all my other headphones 2 stax included...


----------



## Monsterzero

richard51 said:


> Hi! Monsterzero,
> What vintage amplifier do you use for your AKG K 340? And by the way how do you compare them with your other headphones?  I am very curious about your impressions...



TBH,I dont.Of all the headphones i own it is by far the least enjoyable to listen to.
I originally bought it because of how impressed I was(and still am) with the K240 sextetts and wanted to see how they compared.

It is much too bright for me thru any of my vintage gear.I can get it somewhat tamed on my La Figaro 339 if I rotate in my ultra warm tubes,but considering most of my other HPs are warm by nature I usually use a brighter tube combo.

I have noticed that my K340 sounds "better" after 20-30 minutes of warming up,but at the end of the day it falls short for my personal preferences vs. my other gear.I'd sell it but I dont think I'd get much for it,so I kinda just keep it around as a collectors item.

Ive read your comments in the K340 thread and glad youre enjoying your pair.


----------



## SirMarc (Oct 29, 2017)

monsterzero said:


> Have you ever a/b it vs. another monster? I see many folks preferring the Pioneer 1250 vs the 9090,but i not only love the Sansui house sound,but the 9090 is simply eye candy for me,whereas I find the Pioneers looks to be kinda meh(no offense)


I've heard the SX-1250 and I've heard various Marantz and Kenwood models. I'm partial to the mid 70's Sansui sound myself.

I'd say from the vintage receivers I've heard, Pioneer is clinical-ish and neutral, but powerful sounding, Marantz a little too warm and syrupy for me, I find Sansui to be the happy medium with nice detailed, but not strident highs, liquid midrange, powerful tight bass, and killer soundstage width and depth, Kenwood leans towards the Sansui sound sig, but with a bit too much lower bass and a more flat soundstage.

Keep in mind that most of this experience is in different rooms with different gear, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

That being said, there was a really long thread on AK a number of years ago on the overall best receiver of the 70's and the 9090 got the most votes. 

And yes, after the very cool looking Pioneer SX-1010 in the mid 70's, the Pioneers are kind of blah looking to me too...

Edit: this thread is very Pioneer centric. Head over to AudioKarma and there's a ton of Sansui enthusiasts.


----------



## Monsterzero (Oct 29, 2017)

Yup,ive been a member of AK for a couple years but not nearly as active there as I am here.
Interesting that you mention the 1010,thats the one Pioneer ive always been tempted by,absolutely love its looks.

My Kenwood Eleven GX sounds nothing like my Sansuis(much brighter and detailed),and its a bit of a problem child and has been relegated to den speaker duty where it drives a pair of Rectilinear Highboys.But on looks alone the Eleven GX is my fav that I own,but due to reasons that my tech has thus far been unable to diagnose it doesnt like being in use for extended periods of time.

The other receiver that im lusting after is a Concept 16.5,drab as hell to look at,but apparently a stunning sounding monster....the next time I find a spare 3000.00 I forgot in a coat pocket I will grab one.


----------



## SirMarc

Man those mid 70's Kewoods are gorgeous. My KR-7600 is mint, and beautiful, but its relegated to back up duty because sound wise, the 9090 kills it. I wish my 9090 was in the shape my Kenwood is. The Sansui looks good for its age, but the Kenwood looks brand new.

I'm partial to the mid 70's look of receivers. The later 70's models look too blingy to me. The G series Sansui's look like nuclear launch systems lol


----------



## richard51

monsterzero said:


> TBH,I dont.Of all the headphones i own it is by far the least enjoyable to listen to.
> I originally bought it because of how impressed I was(and still am) with the K240 sextetts and wanted to see how they compared.
> 
> It is much too bright for me thru any of my vintage gear.I can get it somewhat tamed on my La Figaro 339 if I rotate in my ultra warm tubes,but considering most of my other HPs are warm by nature I usually use a brighter tube combo.
> ...



Thanks Monsterzero...

it is very strange that the same headphone sound so totally different from different sources and amplifier.... on mine they are not in the least bright, they are warm sounding, with not preeminent bass but there is bass, imaging is the best of all my headphones, and the timbre is more natural than all my headphones.... Dont sell them perhaps you will change your gear someday for them.... thanks very much for your reply....


----------



## KG Jag

Excellent site over viewing many receivers from many makers & rebranders:

https://classicreceivers.com/


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## PhoenixG

Have you seen what the big G's from sansui are going for nowdays? Some cost as much as a new BMW 2 series...



SirMarc said:


> Man those mid 70's Kewoods are gorgeous. My KR-7600 is mint, and beautiful, but its relegated to back up duty because sound wise, the 9090 kills it. I wish my 9090 was in the shape my Kenwood is. The Sansui looks good for its age, but the Kenwood looks brand new.
> 
> I'm partial to the mid 70's look of receivers. The later 70's models look too blingy to me. The G series Sansui's look like nuclear launch systems lol


----------



## SirMarc

PhoenixG said:


> Have you seen what the big G's from sansui are going for nowdays? Some cost as much as a new BMW 2 series...


Holy crap! Do you have insurance on yours? Lol


----------



## PhoenixG

SirMarc said:


> Holy crap! Do you have insurance on yours? Lol


If one of those actually sells for those prices, I think I'll be obliged to downsize. I recently moved halfway around the planet to a place that's 220v/50Hz and I'm going to have to re-evaluate anything that isn't dual voltage once it gets unpacked. Or maybe I'll get a bunch of transformers, TBD.


----------



## SirMarc

PhoenixG said:


> If one of those actually sells for those prices, I think I'll be obliged to downsize. I recently moved halfway around the planet to a place that's 220v/50Hz and I'm going to have to re-evaluate anything that isn't dual voltage once it gets unpacked. Or maybe I'll get a bunch of transformers, TBD.


Yeah man I feel you. That could probably finance the move


----------



## Monsterzero

I was browsing FleaBay just last night and noticed those ads...silly! Saw one ad for a Kenwood Eleven for 3 large


----------



## richard51 (Oct 30, 2017)

Perhaps i will sell my  100 watts Sansui Au-X701, 20 thousand dollars, it is supposed to be way better than these Sansui  300 hundred watts monster  receiver....Nodody interested? i will keep my  only 55 watts Sansui AU-7700 though...


----------



## Jabba

richard51 said:


> Perhaps i will sell my  100 watts Sansui Au-X701, 20 thousand dollars, it is supposed to be way better than these Sansui  300 hundred watts monster  receiver....Nodody interested? i will keep my  only 55 watts Sansui AU-7700 though...


Insane price on those Sansui G's
In my country the FM is nearing it's end (transition to dab+...).
Only local stations left (ends 2022). Other countries to follow.
So the big amps is more interesting here than the reciever's. 
Better stock up with the big Sansui amps, maybe worth a house by then


----------



## Monsterzero

Jabba said:


> Insane price on those Sansui G's
> In my country the FM is nearing it's end (transition to dab+...).
> Only local stations left (ends 2022). Other countries to follow.
> So the big amps is more interesting here than the reciever's.
> Better stock up with the big Sansui amps, maybe worth a house by then



Pardon the ignorance,but what is "dab+"?

I never listen to terrestrial radio anyways,but going back to the way a piece of equipment looks i much prefer a receiver over a standard amp...unless were talking about those old McIntosh tube amps...so beautiful!


----------



## Jabba (Oct 30, 2017)

Dab+ is a digital radio version of AAC, often in my country in 64kb/s, 96kb/s, and 128kb/s on a few.

more info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_broadcasting
And here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Efficiency_Advanced_Audio_Coding


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## kid vic

Anyone know if static from your turntable can cause issues in your receiver? The stock platter mat on my is a notorious static well; any time I play records for awhile weird things happen to my amp (loud pop through whatever output was used when turning off, channels not working on initial startup, random temporary drops in overall sonic quality). ALL of the aformentioned issues stop if I play from another source for awhile or if I lift the record off the turntable (which is followed by a nice pop) then replace it.

I will be replacing the mat shortly but in the meantime I would like to know if anyone has experienced this.


----------



## PhoenixG

It kinda sounds like you have more than one issue going on. Your phono preamp might be damaged, your amp could have a bias issue with a high steady state current, and/or you could have a grounding issue with your TT. You could try to rig a ground from the top of your platter to the post to dissipate the static and see if that helps, but I'd doubt your problem is so simple considering your symptoms.



kid vic said:


> Anyone know if static from your turntable can cause issues in your receiver? The stock platter mat on my is a notorious static well; any time I play records for awhile weird things happen to my amp (loud pop through whatever output was used when turning off, channels not working on initial startup, random temporary drops in overall sonic quality). ALL of the aformentioned issues stop if I play from another source for awhile or if I lift the record off the turntable (which is followed by a nice pop) then replace it.
> 
> I will be replacing the mat shortly but in the meantime I would like to know if anyone has experienced this.


----------



## SpeakerBox

OldRoadToad said:


> I have an emotional attachment to the receivers and integrated amps of the 70s, but not an umbilical one.  People can ask what they want but that does not mean they will get it.  When the Miata first came out people were putting theirs up for sale for tens of thousands of dollars over what they paid.  There was even one ad that asked for a million.
> 
> Just because you're fishing with the right bait does not mean the pond has hungry fish in it.  The quickest way to get buyer's remorse is to over pay and then try to immediately flip it for even more and fail horribly.
> 
> ...



Prices are somewhat insane and I certainly would not pay the going price for most of these models.  I am very fortunate to have had my Wife find a mint SX-1250 for $350 at a Ronald McDonald house sale a few years back.  Yes, not flashy looking - but the sound is a head turner.


----------



## Jabba (Oct 31, 2017)

SpeakerBox said:


> I am very fortunate to have had my Wife find a mint SX-1250 for $350


Heard many good things about this reciever.
Good find, any pics?


----------



## kid vic

PhoenixG said:


> It kinda sounds like you have more than one issue going on. Your phono preamp might be damaged, your amp could have a bias issue with a high steady state current, and/or you could have a grounding issue with your TT. You could try to rig a ground from the top of your platter to the post to dissipate the static and see if that helps, but I'd doubt your problem is so simple considering your symptoms.



Unfortunately I fear your right; you came to almost the exact same diagnosis I did while missing information. I was having problems with phono input 1 from the start and previously one of the channels died on me, I took the amp to a local guy who is not known for doing the most thorough work (found this out too late) and he semi-repaired both issues but obviously not fully.

I'll have to take it to a different tech soon


----------



## sotto123

After having done a lot of research I settled on a restored Sansui AU-555A. I've been listening to it for a week and I'm truly blown away by its sound. 

Deep, tight bass; lively mids; smooth treble. Best of all is its wonderful natural tone that leans on the warm side yet still manages to sound open and fast. Excellent sense of space and imaging too. Just a highly musical, impressive unit. Not the most detailed amp, but I can overlook that considering everything else. Excellent for low-volume listening, but really asks of you to turn it up.

I've also got a fully restored Sony TA-4650 coming my way too. I expect it to even best the Sansui with its VFET design.

Vintage equipment only for me from now on.


----------



## PhoenixG

sotto123 said:


> After having done a lot of research I settled on a restored Sansui AU-555A. I've been listening to it for a week and I'm truly blown away by its sound.
> 
> Deep, tight bass; lively mids; smooth treble. Best of all is its wonderful natural tone that leans on the warm side yet still manages to sound open and fast. Excellent sense of space and imaging too. Just a highly musical, impressive unit. Not the most detailed amp, but I can overlook that considering everything else. Excellent for low-volume listening, but really asks of you to turn it up.
> 
> ...




Welcome to team Sansui/Sony! Add some mcintosh gear and we'll have very similar setups!


----------



## PhoenixG

My things have started to arrive 9 time zones from where they started. Hoping to have music back by morning.


----------



## Monsterzero

Where did you start and where are you now?

I moved from USA to SE Asia,and then from SE Asia to Argentina and then back to SE Asia and back to USA....I hate moving!


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> Where did you start and where are you now?
> 
> I moved from USA to SE Asia,and then from SE Asia to Argentina and then back to SE Asia and back to USA....I hate moving!



I moved from the west coast of the US to southern europe. I took about 800 kilos of US spec vintage audio equipment with me, so I'm thinking I'm going to have some great cross pollination with the collection.


----------



## Monsterzero

You sent everything shipping container? how long did that take to arrive?
Lots of stepdown converters are in your future!


----------



## PhoenixG

monsterzero said:


> You sent everything shipping container? how long did that take to arrive?
> Lots of stepdown converters are in your future!


Everything took 75 days to arrive. It ended up taking up some modular fraction of a container. I'm just glad I didn't have to do the logistics myself.


----------



## squee116

I run a MAC 1900 that's been great a compliment to my v200.  The 1900 adds a sparkle and some space to certain headphones that just sound handicapped otherwise.
For some reason, some of my planar magnetic headphones sound great of my v200, and others really don't perform well with anything other than my MAC.  I love the Bimby->MAC 1900 combo for my HE400s, TH-X0, Ethers.


----------



## Monsterzero

Score of the day...Looks like it was made yesterday,nearly flawless+original box for 50.00


----------



## KG Jag

monsterzero said:


> Score of the day...Looks like it was made yesterday,nearly flawless+original box for 50.00



Nice piece.  Looks like a combo of Sansui, Pioneer & Yamaha.


----------



## richard51

Congratulations! Magnificent piece with great review....


----------



## Monsterzero

KG Jag said:


> Nice piece.  Looks like a combo of Sansui, Pioneer & Yamaha.


Yup,Yamaha & Concept....knew zero about this amp,but the guys over at AK seemed to think it was a good deal back in 2009,so i think in 2017 it qualifies as a genuine bargain. 



richard51 said:


> Congratulations! Magnificent piece with great review....



thanks...worked into my desktop set-up...giving it a chance to see what it can do.Drives my sextetts great.Has a warmer SS than my Onkyo,but not as warm as my Sansuis.


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I'll take it for sure it will be used...


----------



## Jabba

monsterzero said:


> Score of the day...Looks like it was made yesterday,nearly flawless+original box for 50.00


Great find, I have the same reciever and it has a very nice sound.
Had a good synergy with KEF ref. 103/4.


----------



## KG Jag (Nov 5, 2017)

OldRoadToad said:


> I just purchased this Dual 1246 and brought it home.  I will either use it my self or give it to a family member or a friend.  All that I ask them is that they actually use it and not let it just sit there, even though it has merit as "art".  I like it better than quite a few of the modern so ugly they oughtta be called "burntables", players.   If I keep it,  I would have 6 (!) turntables.  Not that there is any thing wrong with that...  It is fully automatic and features a "repeat" function to continue to play the same side over and over.  Kinda sorta cool.  I like kinda sorta cool.
> 
> Vintage 'tables are like vintage receivers and integrated amps.  Totally bitchin'.
> 
> ORT



I think there is a market for quality auto and semi-auto TT's--not to mention the repeat play and other advanced features that started to show up at the end of the 70's and later.


----------



## PhoenixG

After 2 days on 220v, I have smoked two Sony STR-6120's that are switched to 240v settings. Both had the same failure - the switch that controls the switched outlet on the back has melted. Looks like the switch is rated for 500v, but it seems like they have both independently decided that 220 is too much. Otherwise, they had been running perfectly for about an hour each before the blue smoke. I'll buy the stupid $2 parts and repair them in due time. For now, I have one 6120 left before I have to seriously consider just using a dang step-down transformer. Any super technicians have any idea why these 500v rated components keep failing besides the fact that they are 50 years old?


----------



## Guidostrunk

This is for the experienced folks here. To gain more volume out of my Sansui , when connecting my hd700's to the speaker taps. Is there a resistor network I can buy or build for it? My cans are 120ohms. I can turn the volume to maybe 3 or 4, and it's extremely touchy. 
My amp puts out 15wpc@8ohms. Sansui Au-101. Any advice is much appreciated.

Cheers


----------



## Monsterzero

Guidostrunk said:


> This is for the experienced folks here. To gain more volume out of my Sansui , when connecting my hd700's to the speaker taps. Is there a resistor network I can buy or build for it? My cans are 120ohms. I can turn the volume to maybe 3 or 4, and it's extremely touchy.
> My amp puts out 15wpc@8ohms. Sansui Au-101. Any advice is much appreciated.
> 
> Cheers



@robrob might be able to assist...


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks MZ. 





monsterzero said:


> @robrob might be able to assist...


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 10, 2018)

.


----------



## penmarker

OldRoadToad said:


> My new record player plays  just great but the automatic start/stop feature does not work.  I suspect a belt or some thing along those lines.  We shall see.  Looks like I will have to keep this for my self.  For a while...Yeah...That's it.  For a while!
> 
> In the mean time I hooked up my Denon DP-300F.  I was using my Pro-Ject Sgt. Pepper's 'table but wanted an automatic due to leg pain (I am a ***** about that!).
> 
> ORT


What table is it? Auto decks usually need to have their gearing serviced after some time. Once they gummed up with old grease they'll develop all sorts of problems.


----------



## OldRoadToad

penmarker said:


> What table is it? Auto decks usually need to have their gearing serviced after some time. Once they gummed up with old grease they'll develop all sorts of problems.


It is a Dual 1246.

ORT


----------



## rigo

Any opinions on the Pioneer SA-9500 amp?  Might be able to get one in great condition at a good price.


----------



## Guidostrunk

I figured I'd leave this here for @robrob to comment on.

I've been messing around with the calculator, and came up with this resistor configuration. Definitely open to a better suggestion if needed. The only thing that has me wondering, is the attenuation value. Not sure where that number should actually be.


----------



## robrob

25dB of attenuation is a good place to start. Your resistor values look good.

Here's the basic attenuator layout:


----------



## Guidostrunk

Thanks a ton Rob!



robrob said:


> 25dB of attenuation is a good place to start. Your resistor values look good.
> 
> Here's the basic attenuator layout:


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 6, 2017)

I had a confusing phone conversation today and hope someone can shed some light on it for me.

Ever since forever Ive wanted to own a McIntosh piece,whether it be a tube amp,or pre amp or receiver,doesnt really matter to me,I just want one.
I have read a bit on the various pieces theyve made over the years and decided to pursue a MAC 4100 to do double duty for speakers and headphones.Having read about their legendary customer service I phoned McIntosh to inquire specifically about the HP jack of that and other receivers...Ended up talking to a nice enough guy,but he informed me that up until 5 years ago,give or take,the HP outs on their products "were equal to something one would find on a normal CD player",and not something that would be good for driving headphones.

He talked up their current 4500.00 HP amp and commented that while the 4100 would be a great addition for speakers,it wasnt advisable for double duty on headphones.

So my question is he just being naive about vintage gear ability to drive HPs?Is he being dishonest in hopes of trying to get me to drop 4500.00 on a dedicated HP amp? Or is it possible that the Japanese really just did HP jacks correctly and Mac dropped the ball back in the day?

Anyone with a MAC care to chime in,please.


----------



## Skylab

rigo said:


> Any opinions on the Pioneer SA-9500 amp?  Might be able to get one in great condition at a good price.



Outstanding piece of kit. If you can get a nice one priced well, jump.


----------



## sotto123

I was trying to decide between a Scott 233 or Fisher X-100 (both refurbished) but decided to wait it out. Well that was until the retailer offered a one day only 15% discount. I couldn't resist!

As I had a hard time deciding between the two, I just went by which output tubes they use (Scott 7591, Fisher EL-84). So it looks like I'll be joining the Fisher X-100 club.  I know there's a few guys on here who really enjoy it with headphones. 

Even with the 15% discount it was by no means inexpensive, but I guess that's the way it is with this kind of gear in Europe. I can always return it if the sound isn't to my liking anyway, which is a huge plus.

With a Sansui AU-555A currently in my possession and Sony TA-4650 V-Fet and Fisher X-100 coming my way, I've gone all in on vintage gear. It's going to be a fun next couple of weeks


----------



## richard51 (Nov 11, 2017)

sotto123 said:


> I was trying to decide between a Scott 233 or Fisher X-100 (both refurbished) but decided to wait it out. Well that was until the retailer offered a one day only 15% discount. I couldn't resist!
> 
> As I had a hard time deciding between the two, I just went by which output tubes they use (Scott 7591, Fisher EL-84). So it looks like I'll be joining the Fisher X-100 club.  I know there's a few guys on here who really enjoy it with headphones.
> 
> ...




I dont know the price you paid, but vintage is the way, the ratio quality /price is over the roof if rightly choosen....Congratulations and report here thanks And the gear was created in an era where music was all there is, not frequencies, only music to human ears....


----------



## sotto123 (Nov 14, 2017)

I've had the Sony TA-4650 in my possession for over 24 hours now. I think I've got a pretty good grasp of its sound, although I'll need to listen to it for longer of course.

If I could describe it in one word it would be smooth; two words, silky smooth etc. I can't overstate just how smooth this thing sounds. VFET technology seems to result in a sound that is a combination of solid state and tubes.

It is very clear, quick on its feet, airy and the soundstage is large with impressive separation. Treble is wonderfully smooth and extended. Bass is quite hard hitting and the midrange is liquid smooth. I could listen to it all day without a hint of fatigue setting in, which is a big deal for me. It beats the Sansui AU-555A in almost all of these aspects. So you would think that the Sony is the clear winner, right?

Well, not quite.

For 8/10 people on Head-Fi, I have no doubt that this would be the case. However, the bass isn't quite as hard hitting as the Sansui, it's a touch less resolving and the tone isn't as warm and rich. The Sansui has a little bit of magic that draws me into the music and results in a more emotional listen, which people would call colouration I suppose. The Sansui is more in line with my sensibilities, particularly in regards to its tonality.

The Sony really excels for classical and jazz. Those make up 5% of my listening. Female vocals are also excellent, which is what you would expect due to its smoothness, and make up quite a bit of my listening actually.

The Fisher X-100 should be here in a couple of days


----------



## richard51

Incredibly convincing and clear comparison....Any Sansui lover will understand, the others will buy others....Thanks I cannot wait for the fisher review of yours...


----------



## i luvmusic 2

This maybe off topic but since we're on a vintage gear thread i should ask here instead,Which one of the two is a better format to transfer VINYL RECORDS Cassette Tape or Reel To Reel?I'am looking at this PIONEER RT-1011L and AKAI GX-265D R2R Decks but for the Cassette Recorder haven't see anything yet.Thanks!


----------



## robrob

Reel-to-reel will offer much better fidelity and signal-to-noise ratio compared to cassette and they look much cooler too.


----------



## KG Jag (Nov 14, 2017)

i luvmusic 2 said:


> This maybe off topic but since we're on a vintage gear thread i should ask here instead,Which one of the two is a better format to transfer VINYL RECORDS Cassette Tape or Reel To Reel?I'am looking at this PIONEER RT-1011L and AKAI GX-265D R2R Decks but for the Cassette Recorder haven't see anything yet.Thanks!



I have the 1976 Akai and it's an excellent deck that out specs the 1974 Pioneer, which offers 10" reel capability.  In general moving from the early 70's to the mid to late 70's produces better performance over the same quality lines.  See:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/akai/gx-265d.shtml

and

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/pioneer/rt-1011l.shtml

However the key to all these decks (R to R and cassette) is not the factory specs but of the actual specs of the deck you have.  That is why checking and service by a qualified tech is critical to these 45 to 35 +/- year old machines.

I started in 1970 with R to R and by 1971 had Sony TC 366 (which I still own and it still operates).  These machines have a special place in my heart and in my audio rack.  However, today reel to reel tape is both hard to find and is expensive.  These machines--especially the ones that run 10" reels--take up a great deal of space and don't fit easily (if at all) on the shelves of most audio racks.  Further, by the early 80's the specs on quality cassette decks had become quite impressive--often better (especially on the low end--lowest bass) than high quality R to R decks, which by the mid-80's were mostly discontinued by manufacturers.  Quality cassette decks like the Nakamichi BX line, JVC TD-V6 and its 3 head successors, Denon DRM-800 and various 3 head Harman Kardon decks (just to name a few) are very high quality and can be had for significantly less than R to R.  Cassette's are easier to get and less expensive.  See:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/nakamichi/bx-300.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/nakamichi/bx-1.shtml

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/jvc/td-v66.shtml

They all go great with quality receivers from the 70's through early 80's.


----------



## i luvmusic 2

I didn't think about  sourcing R2R tape,Maybe i should look into Cassette instead it doesn't take up much space,Thanks Guys!


----------



## sotto123

Fisher X-100 came today and it won't power on. I'm beyond disappointed. It came with an European plug, so I plugged it into an adapter for UK use but no such luck. The adapter works fine with other EU devices.

I switched out the fuse it came with but it appears to be okay after having used it in another device.

It was ridiculously well-packed - the box was about 5x as big as the amp and took me 5 minutes to get to. So I doubt it was damaged in transit.

Looks like I'll never get the chance to hear one of these, as I'm probably just going to ask for a refund.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

sotto123 said:


> Fisher X-100 came today and it won't power on. I'm beyond disappointed. It came with an European plug, so I plugged it into an adapter for UK use but no such luck. The adapter works fine with other EU devices.
> 
> I switched out the fuse it came with but it appears to be okay after having used it in another device.
> 
> ...



Check the internal fuses of the amp


----------



## sotto123

Oscar-HiFi said:


> Check the internal fuses of the amp



I know almost nothing about these kind of things, but I thought that was what I already did.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

sotto123 said:


> I know almost nothing about these kind of things, but I thought that was what I already did.



It sounds like you replaced the fuse in the plug/adaptor.

There should be a plastic thing on the back of the amp, next to where the power cable goes in, that holds another fuse.


----------



## sotto123

Oscar-HiFi said:


> It sounds like you replaced the fuse in the plug/adaptor.
> 
> There should be a plastic thing on the back of the amp, next to where the power cable goes in, that holds another fuse.



That was the one I switched out. I can't change the one in the plug because I can't see any way to open it. I can't test another plug either because it seems to be internally wired.

I guess I'm out of options.


----------



## Oscar-HiFi

sotto123 said:


> That was the one I switched out. I can't change the one in the plug because I can't see any way to open it. I can't test another plug either because it seems to be internally wired.
> 
> I guess I'm out of options.



Fair enough, well then I'm not sure. Sorry


----------



## Monsterzero

Most of the vintage gear I buy needs a trip(or two)to the tech shop.I would look for a vintage repair person locally before you throw in the towel,but I understand your frustration


----------



## sotto123

monsterzero said:


> Most of the vintage gear I buy needs a trip(or two)to the tech shop.I would look for a vintage repair person locally before you throw in the towel,but I understand your frustration



That's why I've only looked to buy fully restored units, preferably by professionals, which is what I've been able to do so far. 

For the Fisher I bought it from an online shop, who weren't exactly forthcoming with what changes have been made other than all equipment is "fully tested and refurbished if needed." I thought it would be fine considering I wasn't dealing with an individual.


----------



## rigo

Skylab said:


> Outstanding piece of kit. If you can get a nice one priced well, jump.



I went to hear it and was in great shape. Easy decision to buy.


----------



## grokit (Nov 18, 2017)

I finally got my HE-6 paired properly with my Pioneer SX-727, the special speaker connectors held me back a bit. I have two pairs of speaker wire from Oak Tree, I now have more $ into the speaker wire than the receiver itself lol. I have one pair hooked up to HifiMAN's HE Adapter, more for for convenience and length than out of necessity. My source atm is also a bit unusual; a MacBook Pro with a Halide Design (Devilsound) Spdif Bridge, running iTunes > Amarra Hifi, into my (og) Matrix Mini-i (dual ad-1955's). I'm very please with the results; this may be the best I've heard my HE-6's.


----------



## blur510

Just wondering if anyone here knows a place in San Diego that can restore my pioneer sx 1010? Tia


----------



## chickenmoon

Not sure it qualifies as vintage yet but I received a Teac A-H500i yesterday and it sure beats my (unserviced and unrecapped) 7700 in a few departments, cleaner, more transparent and detailed and absolutely no noise floor I can hear. This said there is no way it's going to displace or supercede the Sansui, I am just glad to have both now. I paid only £76 for it (inc P&P) which is more than a bargain IMO (usually goes for £120 at the minimum).


----------



## richard51 (Nov 18, 2017)

I am sorry for us because of your impending review and beyond words for you....




sotto123 said:


> Fisher X-100 came today and it won't power on. I'm beyond disappointed. It came with an European plug, so I plugged it into an adapter for UK use but no such luck. The adapter works fine with other EU devices.
> 
> I switched out the fuse it came with but it appears to be okay after having used it in another device.
> 
> ...


----------



## richard51 (Nov 18, 2017)

chickenmoon said:


> Not sure it qualifies as vintage yet but I received a Teac A-H500i yesterday and it sure beats my (unserviced and unrecapped) 7700 in a few departments, cleaner, more transparent and detailed and absolutely no noise floor I can hear. This said there is no way it's going to displace or supercede the Sansui, I am just glad to have both now. I paid only £76 for it (inc P&P) which is more than a bargain IMO (usually goes for £120 at the minimum).




My  7700 Sansui was recapped, and i can hear no noise even with my sensitive AKG K 340, the _musicality_ is amazing, and with a good dac, the details are here.... I know you love your Sansui, but a recapping process is mandatory after all this time....I am sure the Teac is good.... best regards


----------



## chickenmoon

richard51 said:


> My  7700 Sansui was recapped, and i can hear no noise even with my sensitive AKG K 7700, the _musicality_ is amazing, and with a good dac, the details are here.... I know you love your Sansui, but a recapping process is mandatory after all this time....I am sure the Teac is good.... best regards


Good to know a recapped 7700 has no audible noise floor, I should recap mine at some point I guess as this might bring out those missing subtle reverb decays I can clearly hear with the Teac.


----------



## richard51 (Nov 18, 2017)

I dont doubt one second that the TEAC may be more revealing,(all the review of the TEAC are amazing) but i have already plenty of details with the Sansui, the musicality, the organic flowing of the music. this is what i have with the 7700 ; there exist more revealing amplifier i am sure, for example ,my TOTL  Sansui AU-x701 is more revealing, but more musical than the Au-7700  it is not... And the Sansui AU-x701 is absolutely not cold analitycal though...Then i think that recapping  is the way....



chickenmoon said:


> Good to know a recapped 7700 has no audible noise floor, I should recap mine at some point I guess as this might bring out those missing subtle reverb decays I can clearly hear with the Teac.


----------



## chickenmoon

richard51 said:


> I dont doubt one second that the TEAC may be more revealing, but i have already plenty of details with the Sansui, the musicality, the organic flowing of the music. this is what i have with the 7700 ; there exist more revealing amplifier i am sure, for example ,my TOTL  Sansui AU-x701 is more revealing, but more musical than the Au-7700  it is not... And the Sansui AU-x701 is absolutely not cold analitycal though...Then i think that recapping  is the way....



I'll recap the 7700 sooner or later, I'd like to do it myself but I am not sure if that's a good idea as I am no too skilled at soldering.


----------



## richard51 (Nov 18, 2017)

Wait till you discover some very good tech....You are not in a rush....I dont think  you must improve your new founded skill in soldering in a so good amplifier first... But your are the captain...



chickenmoon said:


> I'll recap the 7700 sooner or later, I'd like to do it myself but I am not sure if that's a good idea as I am no too skilled at soldering.


----------



## atarione

I really like this Kenwood KR-V106R I have owned for ~near about 5 yrs now... 100WPC .. nice ~warm sound actually for being Solid state it does a good job managing the rather unwieldy highs on my DT880's.

This is also just an amazing (imho) 80s design with tons and tons of buttons (no knobs at all) and pretty big VFD display..


----------



## richard51 (Nov 20, 2017)

Magnificent receiver!....Congratulations! Vintage is the way!


----------



## mmmadog

Was at the local used music store and they had a mint g9000. They wanted 1500.00. I thought they will have that for awhile at that price. Went in recently and it had a sold tag on it. I remember when people where tossing those big bulky stereos in the trash because of the smaller cooler stuff coming out.


----------



## KG Jag

mmmadog said:


> Was at the local used music store and they had a mint g9000. They wanted 1500.00. I thought they will have that for awhile at that price. Went in recently and it had a sold tag on it. I remember when people where tossing those big bulky stereos in the trash because of the smaller cooler stuff coming out.



I've seem similar pricing at restored vintage shops in Austin.  The big Sansui's and Pioneers have very big price tags.  In part that is because there were only a limited number made of these top and second bananas in those (and other) quality lines.  Most of us who lacked trust funds were limited by our budget and usually very happy to be able to pull down an upper mid line offering.  Those units were far from shabby and usually offered the max bang for our limited bucks.

Those who tossed out their (still working) classic 70's and early 80's receivers were probably the same people who traded in their original Mustang for the Mustang II, or their Falcon or Nova for a Maverick or Vega.  Anyone with a good eye and/or who lifted receivers from the two eras would immediately detect the difference in build quality and durability between the two--all without even a single listening session.  Truth is a great deal of these receivers were the casualty of a move + a non-musical spouse or SO.


----------



## BobG55 (Nov 24, 2017)

*3 serviced Pioneer SX-1980 available

For sale on Canuck Audio Mart/ US Audio Mart :
*
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649391643-pioneer-sx1980-monster-stereo-receiver/

$4500.00 US
*
For sale on Canuck Audio Mart :*

1-) http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649394361-pioneer-sx1980-extensively-restored/

$6500.00 CDN = $5108.66 US (fr. Currency converter, online 24/11/17)

2-) http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/deta...l-pioneer-sx1980-amfm-stereo-receiver-197880/

$6899.00 CDN = $5422.25 US (fr. Currency converter, online 24/11/17)


----------



## KG Jag

BobG55 said:


> *3 serviced Pioneer SX-1980 available
> 
> For sale on Canuck Audio Mart/ US Audio Mart :
> *
> ...



EBay currently has two that have been recapped and serviced for $4,500 and $4,600.


----------



## Monsterzero

Never knew that Pacific Stereo came out with their own headphones.
Just picked up a pair of Concept(of 16.5 fame) planar headphones.Uses a Fostex T20 driver...a bit peaky in the highs,but sounds better than I expected.


----------



## Madbugger (Dec 27, 2017)

Hi All, I have quite a few vintage receivers that I use for headphone listening. I am looking into purchasing some DT880 600ohms and was wondering if any of them are up to powering them. My favorite piece is an NAD 7250PE which I use with an Aric Audio Unlimited tube preamp in the tape loop. The NAD manual states (The circuit will provide proper drive signals for all conventional stereo headphones regardless of their impedance) it seems to sound good with 600ohm AKG240's but I am wondering if I am missing something not using a dedicated headphone amp and if it will power the DT880's?


----------



## Monsterzero

Madbugger said:


> Hi All, I have quite a few vintage receivers that I use for headphone listening. I am looking into purchasing some DT880 600ohms and was wondering if any of them are up to powering them. My favorite piece is an NAD 7250PE which I use with an Aric Audio Unlimited tube preamp in the tape loop. The NAD manual states (The circuit will provide proper drive signals for all conventional stereo headphones regardless of their impedance) it seems to sound good with 600ohm AKG240's but I am wondering if I am missing something not using a dedicated headphone amp and if it will power the DT880's?



You will be fine with that combo,though I prefer tubes for Beyers.


----------



## Madbugger

monsterzero said:


> You will be fine with that combo,though I prefer tubes for Beyers.



 Thanks for the reply. I do use a tube preamp in the tape loop so I get some tube warmth and wider soundstage. I do have an mp301 all tube headphone/amp with older Russian 6l6 and Kenrad preamp tubes but to be honest I really like the mix of tube and solid state so far. Maybe the Beyers will be what I need for the 301 to shine?


----------



## BucketInABucket

So I have a bunch of receivers and due to real life circumstances I'm unable to keep all of them. Which ones should I keep and which ones should I get rid of?

Fisher 500T
Fisher 700T
Yamaha CR-1020
Sony STR-6060FW
Rotel RX-802
Akai AA-1200
Harmon Kardon 930
Goodmans Module 80


----------



## Hutnicks

BucketInABucket said:


> So I have a bunch of receivers and due to real life circumstances I'm unable to keep all of them. Which ones should I keep and which ones should I get rid of?
> 
> Fisher 500T
> Fisher 700T
> ...




Nice avatar bucket. Any chance or a second series on that one?

As Always FWIW goes here. I would hang on the the Rotel, the Hardon Kardon and the Akai and Yamahoe.  My reasoning here is very simple. I rate these as the most servicable and having the cleanest least obtrusive sound sigs around. The others you can deal off for major profit and keep the remainders in caps for a lifetime.


----------



## KG Jag

BucketInABucket said:


> So I have a bunch of receivers and due to real life circumstances I'm unable to keep all of them. Which ones should I keep and which ones should I get rid of?
> 
> Fisher 500T
> Fisher 700T
> ...



What are the conditions of each?

Especially if working (well), I'd love to have an CR-1020.  I have an 820.


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 9, 2018)

Because I can not delete.


----------



## kid vic

Yammie and Akai should stay, I'm curious about the fischer's though


----------



## OldRoadToad (Jan 9, 2018)

Because I can not delete.


----------



## BucketInABucket (Jan 3, 2018)

Hutnicks said:


> Nice avatar bucket. Any chance or a second series on that one?


Probably not :/ I feel like it wasn't the most popular animu out there. I have high hopes though!



Hutnicks said:


> As Always FWIW goes here. I would hang on the the Rotel, the Hardon Kardon and the Akai and Yamahoe.  My reasoning here is very simple. I rate these as the most servicable and having the cleanest least obtrusive sound sigs around. The others you can deal off for major profit and keep the remainders in caps for a lifetime.





KG Jag said:


> What are the conditions of each?
> 
> Especially if working (well), I'd love to have an CR-1020.  I have an 820.


Fisher 500T - physically great condition, audio-wise can't actually remember (need to retest)
Fisher 700T - physically great condition, audio-wise can't actually remember (need to retest)
Yamaha CR-1020 - almost unused, no service bulletin mods performed
Sony STR-6060FW - very good, has another wooden case on it that isn't the stock one
Rotel RX-802 - some issues, channel imbalance and distortion, physically perfect
Akai AA-1200 - powers on but not working, physically perfect
Harmon Kardon 930 - great condition, light use and works well
Goodmans Module 80 - physically great condition, audio-wise can't actually remember (need to retest)

I'm definitely leaning towards keeping the Yamaha, Akai, HK and Rotel, despite the problems the Akai and Rotel have. The Fisher units and the Sony are a nightmare to service in comparison and the Goodmans isn't that good. I do want an STR-6120 too so the Sony can go. Thanks for the help!


----------



## KG Jag (Jan 3, 2018)

The Sony is their first ever receiver.  That could be a reason to either keep it or sell it.

The HK has some excellent features, including the very rare for its time 2 aux. inputs.


----------



## PhoenixG

You’ve got a ton (almost literally) of quality there. I am a huge fan of the Sony and I concur with your thoughts to change to a 6120. I’ve compared 6060,6120, and 6200’s side by side and the 6120/6200 are better to my ears, though all are super nice. The 6120/6200 are nearly identical apart from a few parts. I’ve got two 6120’s on my bench right now with the same minor problem, and I can’t wait to get them back into a system. If you’re ok with their moderate power levels, I consider a 6120/6200 to be an end game unit for the sub $8k budget.




BucketInABucket said:


> So I have a bunch of receivers and due to real life circumstances I'm unable to keep all of them. Which ones should I keep and which ones should I get rid of?
> 
> Fisher 500T
> Fisher 700T
> ...


----------



## BucketInABucket

I've decided to keep the Yamaha, Rotel, Akai and HK units. On the fence about the Fisher units too.


----------



## peepr

Friends, I have a bizarre problem: picking up a stray radio station through my receiver: Pioneer SX-880

Situation: When I use my HD650's plugged into the front of the 880, I can very clearly hear a radio station in the left channel. I can make out dialogue etc...it is 98.5 i am in the DC area.

I also have an HE-560, and DO NOT hear this radio station when using these headphones. Silent background. 

I have removed the antenna, no change. I have wiggled cables, turned all knobs and switches, and spun the tuner knob from high to low and no change. 

In fact, when I turn the selector to FM, i get clear FM radio plus this 98.5 channel in the background.

I am handy with soldering iron and more than willing to dig around in the guts, is there anything i can remove or disconnect to stop this?

It is some satanic combination of the 650's plus the receiver causing my headphones to act as an antenna??


----------



## KG Jag

peepr said:


> Friends, I have a bizarre problem: picking up a stray radio station through my receiver: Pioneer SX-880
> 
> Situation: When I use my HD650's plugged into the front of the 880, I can very clearly hear a radio station in the left channel. I can make out dialogue etc...it is 98.5 i am in the DC area.
> 
> ...



I remember similar issues, albeit usually involving speakers, from the 70's forward.  This might be of interest:

http://www.tomsguide.com/forum/53579-6-picking-radio-station-signal-speakers


----------



## peepr

Thanks KC. I've read through that before. I'll hunt around for some ferrite and see what happens.


----------



## kid vic

Here's my setup, unpictured is my Yamaha CA-600
The Akai AM-2650 is my contribution to this thread


----------



## PhoenixG

I love the turntable! What a great looking piece!



kid vic said:


> Here's my setup, unpictured is my Yamaha CA-600
> The Akai AM-2650 is my contribution to this thread


----------



## PhoenixG

Hey all, I haven’t posted anything substantial in a while as I haven’t had my system fully running for months due to the move. Everything was put into a container in July and shipped 9 timezones east over to Europe. There have certainly been a few trials on the way haha. Two of my Sony str-6120’s smoked themselves after being converted to 220v. The damage was limited to an outlet switch on the mains side on both, so yay for consistency I suppose. The component that melted had 550v printed on it, so consider me annoyed that a 50 year old part doesn’t perform to spec haha. Learning my lesson with the sony’s I put the sansui G33000 on a 2500VA step down transformer instead of switching it to 220v - too much unobtanium to risk on it. 



 
The next trial came with the dual 1229 turntable - 50hz in makes it 17% slow. So I bought a u-turn audio turntable to get me by, but I didn’t do my research and it was also 17% slow and they don’t sell larger spindles. My friend offered to 3D print a new spindle, but the one he made has some quality control issues (too rough, audible flutter, slightly irregular). So I got a series of frequency converters until I found one that doesn’t have a fan that makes an annoying hum. 


 
Once I got the speed right, it still kinda sounded thin on vinyl. So I replaced the cartridge with a decent audiotechnica elliptical model. I’m really happy with the results and I love having my music back!


----------



## OldRoadToad (Feb 9, 2018)

.


----------



## Monsterzero

Wow man,beautiful set-up!


----------



## northendjazz

Wow, must feel nice to be settled again and with that set-up.


----------



## jaywillin

picked up this little beauty today off a facebook yard sale page
a little static in the volume pot, and the balance control is a little wonky, it does work though, are the only issues
cosmetically, it's in VERY good condition, me thinks i did good for $60 !


----------



## Gnomeplay

jaywillin said:


> picked up this little beauty today off a facebook yard sale page
> a little static in the volume pot, and the balance control is a little wonky, it does work though, are the only issues
> cosmetically, it's in VERY good condition, me thinks i did good for $60 !


Certainly. Looks clean to me. A little bit of deoxit and you're in for some fun!


----------



## jaywillin (Feb 7, 2018)

Gnomeplay said:


> Certainly. Looks clean to me. A little bit of deoxit and you're in for some fun!




i've got everything to do a complete cleaning, inside and out, but there really isn't a whole lot that needs to be done, i haven't opened it up yet, but looking in through the screen/vent, it looks retty good


----------



## KG Jag

Looks great--from the later part of the classic Pioneer 70's models.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice gear everyone.  Especially those awesome tables!  Here is a picture of my restored Pioneer PL-516 with Denon DL-110.  Love it!


----------



## Mr Rick

Nice 516. I have one in NOS condition. It's been in a stereo cabinet for probably twenty years.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Mr Rick said:


> Nice 516. I have one in NOS condition. It's been in a stereo cabinet for probably twenty years.



Thanks, very happy with it.  So you don't use your 516?


----------



## navr

AppleheadMay said:


> Ok, so a Marantz PM-11 Sx, PM14 SE, PM-KI Pearl  or Yamaha A-S3000 won't yield great results with speakers? They beat a totally undiscrete and unbalanced Rotel 350W at 3000$ with ease. They won't beat a Pair of MA-9Sx for sure I can tell you but they will give any Classe A/B amp a tough challenge given the price difference. The new Classe Class D amps are a joke.
> New technology? Kharma speakers with ceramic drivers anyone? Sound as bad as speakers can get yet some "high-end" manufacurers like to copy the ceramic crap.
> So just like you say, yes, some vintage gear is superior and yes some high priced modern gear beats it but some of the highest priced gear nowadays is a joke. But saying some of the highly regarded vintage brands can't make anything worthwhile anymore is a big mistake. Okay, most of their stuff is useless but the amps I mentioned before as well as Pioneers plasma screens are hard to beat. Not to mention the Pioneer SE-M1. Best phones I ever heard although I'm a big fan of closed phones mainly of the Foster created models, be they original or modded.
> In any case, I really love the sound of those vintage amps for phones as well as for speakers. OK, A Marantz PM-11 with B&W 80x beats them in detail and soundstage but in sheer power, bass response and allround enjoyment the vintage gear wins. Not to mention the looks and the joy to look at them from my perspective.


Kharma 3.2 ceramic sounds 3 times better than Kharma S7 signature


----------



## BobG55

PhoenixG said:


> Hey all, I haven’t posted anything substantial in a while as I haven’t had my system fully running for months due to the move. Everything was put into a container in July and shipped 9 timezones east over to Europe. There have certainly been a few trials on the way haha. Two of my Sony str-6120’s smoked themselves after being converted to 220v. The damage was limited to an outlet switch on the mains side on both, so yay for consistency I suppose. The component that melted had 550v printed on it, so consider me annoyed that a 50 year old part doesn’t perform to spec haha. Learning my lesson with the sony’s I put the sansui G33000 on a 2500VA step down transformer instead of switching it to 220v - too much unobtanium to risk on it.
> 
> 
> The next trial came with the dual 1229 turntable - 50hz in makes it 17% slow. So I bought a u-turn audio turntable to get me by, but I didn’t do my research and it was also 17% slow and they don’t sell larger spindles. My friend offered to 3D print a new spindle, but the one he made has some quality control issues (too rough, audible flutter, slightly irregular). So I got a series of frequency converters until I found one that doesn’t have a fan that makes an annoying hum.
> ...



To every member of this thread, please excuse my language, but : H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T !!!!!!  That's like dying & going to audiophile heaven.  What a nice setup.  Congratulations.


----------



## PhoenixG

BobG55 said:


> To every member of this thread, please excuse my language, but : H-O-L-Y S-H-I-T !!!!!!  That's like dying & going to audiophile heaven.  What a nice setup.  Congratulations.


Thanks man, a lot of it was just lucky - spotting them as they went for sale locally - then trading up to keep from spending too much or having too much in the house to get WAF.


----------



## jaywillin

i'm thinking it's time for a turntable to hook up to the receiver(s) i have, any suggestions out there for a good, first vintage table ?  i haven't had a turntable since the 80's !
thanks


----------



## Skylab

Well, there are a ZILLION vintage turntable options, and many of them good.  What brand receiver do you have? And approx how much would you like to spend? If you work at it you can get a quite good vintage TT for $100, and a great one for $500. But in either case the condition of the needle in the cartridge that’s included will be important - and in many/most cases when buying a used vintage TT the needle / cartrdige will need replacing. Some cartridges have a replaceable needle/stylus, but many do not.


----------



## hemipowered007

Not to detail the previous question, but a side to it, I'm also looking for a vintage, hopefully wood cased(if not I can build one) tt to go alongside my pioneer sx1010. Any and all recommendations are appreciated. Let's say 200-500$


----------



## jaywillin

Skylab said:


> Well, there are a ZILLION vintage turntable options, and many of them good.  What brand receiver do you have? And approx how much would you like to spend? If you work at it you can get a quite good vintage TT for $100, and a great one for $500. But in either case the condition of the needle in the cartridge that’s included will be important - and in many/most cases when buying a used vintage TT the needle / cartrdige will need replacing. Some cartridges have a replaceable needle/stylus, but many do not.



actually, I had forgotten that i briefly had a dual 1228( I think, it had a United Audio base (someone gave me) and I had it tuned up, and a grado cartridge installed, that was in the mid 90's. I ended up selling because i just didn't use it much. I sure wish I would have held on to it.
I have a Pioneer sx580, and an H/K 330c, and Boston HD8 speakers.
Budget wise, I'm hoping $100-$200 .


----------



## Skylab

hemipowered007 said:


> Not to detail the previous question, but a side to it, I'm also looking for a vintage, hopefully wood cased(if not I can build one) tt to go alongside my pioneer sx1010. Any and all recommendations are appreciated. Let's say 200-500$



So the Pioneer PL-530, -550, -570, and -71 would all be great choices for you. 



jaywillin said:


> actually, I had forgotten that i briefly had a dual 1228( I think, it had a United Audio base (someone gave me) and I had it tuned up, and a grado cartridge installed, that was in the mid 90's. I ended up selling because i just didn't use it much. I sure wish I would have held on to it.
> I have a Pioneer sx580, and an H/K 330c, and Boston HD8 speakers.
> Budget wise, I'm hoping $100-$200 .



If you could get one of the above for that price that would be awesome. Otherwise any of the non-wood cased vintage Pioneer direct drive decks other the 560 would be good. I’d avoid the Pioneer belt drive decks.


----------



## jaywillin (Mar 3, 2018)

Skylab said:


> So the Pioneer PL-530, -550, -570, and -71 would all be great choices for you.
> 
> 
> 
> If you could get one of the above for that price that would be awesome. Otherwise any of the non-wood cased vintage Pioneer direct drive decks other the 560 would be good. I’d avoid the Pioneer belt drive decks.



I'd been looking at some of those pioneer decks, thanks !


----------



## Oregonian

Update of sorts................just installed a completely restored Spec 1 preamp in the rack yesterday.  My original Spec 1 was having some "issues"...........phono stage would come in and out, tone board definitely needed some attention and had balance issues.  Was pretty sure it was the Spec 1 since the Spec 2 amp was gone through a while back so took the plunge and bought the restored unit.  What a difference using any of the sources feeding it - phono plays like it should (have a vintage Pioneer PL-S50 turntable) now and all issues are gone.  Going to have the original refurbed and either sell it or put it in one of my other 7 systems.  By the way, got the Spec 1 from Hudson Valley HiFi in upstate NY (www.hudsonvalleyhifi.com) - shipped it out here to Oregon with no issues - packed perfectly and arrived in pristine condition.  Check out their website - they do a lot of restorations.


----------



## hemipowered007

Skylab said:


> So the Pioneer PL-530, -550, -570, and -71 would all be great choices for you.
> 
> 
> 
> If you could get one of the above for that price that would be awesome. Otherwise any of the non-wood cased vintage Pioneer direct drive decks other the 560 would be good. I’d avoid the Pioneer belt drive decks.



Awesome thanks!


----------



## hemipowered007

Oregonian said:


> Update of sorts................just installed a completely restored Spec 1 preamp in the rack yesterday.  My original Spec 1 was having some "issues"...........phono stage would come in and out, tone board definitely needed some attention and had balance issues.  Was pretty sure it was the Spec 1 since the Spec 2 amp was gone through a while back so took the plunge and bought the restored unit.  What a difference using any of the sources feeding it - phono plays like it should (have a vintage Pioneer PL-S50 turntable) now and all issues are gone.  Going to have the original refurbed and either sell it or put it in one of my other 7 systems.  By the way, got the Spec 1 from Hudson Valley HiFi in upstate NY (www.hudsonvalleyhifi.com) - shipped it out here to Oregon with no issues - packed perfectly and arrived in pristine condition.  Check out their website - they do a lot of restorations.



That's it, we need an Oregon meet!


----------



## KG Jag (Mar 3, 2018)

jaywillin said:


> i'm thinking it's time for a turntable to hook up to the receiver(s) i have, any suggestions out there for a good, first vintage table ?  i haven't had a turntable since the 80's !
> thanks



In the still affordable class are the late 70's to mid 80's direct drive Technics (e.g. SL-D3; see:https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-d3.shtml) with classic/standard 1/2" cartridge mounts.  Technics belt drives of this same type and from era (e.g. SL-B-2; see:https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-d3.shtml ) are also decent.  Almost all are either automatic or semi-automatic.  This is a cartridge saver when real life interrupts you listening sessions.  If you get one, be sure to pick up the very affordable cartridge alignment tool--see: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U1XK5Z6

Don't neglect the cartridge/stylus you pair with it.


----------



## hemipowered007

A vintage gear/headphone meet would be amazing. Tough due to weight of items, but, I would definitely be up to drive my sx1010 somewhere within a reasonabnle distance. At some point if there's a canjam in portland I'll drag it and some hps up. People seriously doubt vintage gear, it would be fun to see others try it out.


----------



## TooPoor (Mar 5, 2018)

Pontus IC-300A
What did I buy for $13 at Goodwill today? There’s almost nothing on the web about this unit! Seems like the company Pontus is a Korean manufacturer. Amp is from 1979. I think it does 50W/ch based on the front plate meter. I’m most interested in the headphone out, but I’m nervous to plug anything in there yet! Anyone with some insight?


----------



## Oregonian

No pic posted.  Think you have to have 30 posts to be able to post so you're close...............


----------



## TooPoor

Fixed pic. Not sure why it didn’t post... I have a lot more than 30 posts!


----------



## OldRoadToad

TooPoor said:


> Pontus IC-300A
> What did I buy for $13 at Goodwill today? There’s almost nothing on the web about this unit! Seems like the company Pontus is a Korean manufacturer. Amp is from 1979. I think it does 50W/ch based on the front plate meter. I’m most interested in the headphone out, but I’m nervous to plug anything in there yet! Anyone with some insight?


----------



## OldRoadToad

Turn it down all the way, plug in an inexpensive pair of headphones and a source then gradually raise the volume with out the headphones on your head.  If all sounds good, bingo!  As with any unknown thing, be cautious.

At least that is how I have done it with each of my vintage receiver purchases.

ORT


----------



## TooPoor

The only thing I have right now are IEMs... I have ZMF Eikons en route though. From what I remember, older headphone outputs sometimes put out the same power as the speaker terminals. I bet I could find an old pair of IEMs I don’t care about just to see if the HP out is functional.


----------



## KG Jag

TooPoor said:


> The only thing I have right now are IEMs... I have ZMF Eikons en route though. From what I remember, older headphone outputs sometimes put out the same power as the speaker terminals. I bet I could find an old pair of IEMs I don’t care about just to see if the HP out is functional.





TooPoor said:


> The only thing I have right now are IEMs... I have ZMF Eikons en route though. From what I remember, older headphone outputs sometimes put out the same power as the speaker terminals. I bet I could find an old pair of IEMs I don’t care about just to see if the HP out is functional.



Do not use IEM's unless they are expendable.  They are made for low power battery powered portable devices.

Borrow a pair of cheap head phones rated at least 150 Ohms or higher--then start from 0 volume level.


----------



## Monsterzero

TooPoor said:


> The only thing I have right now are IEMs... I have ZMF Eikons en route though. From what I remember, older headphone outputs sometimes put out the same power as the speaker terminals. I bet I could find an old pair of IEMs I don’t care about just to see if the HP out is functional.



The HP jack of old receivers typically have a set of resistors in-line,so while it is much more power than modern gear,its still not going to be the same 100% flow of amping that the speakers get.

The advice on IEMs is spot on...dont do it unless theyre disposable.My experience has been anything 250 ohms and above work great with the old stuff.


----------



## TooPoor

Thanks guys. Now I need to just find out more about this thing. I read somewhere that this manufacturer may have been an OEM for Pioneer... who knows.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 5, 2018)

TooPoor said:


> Pontus IC-300A
> What did I buy for $13 at Goodwill today? There’s almost nothing on the web about this unit! Seems like the company Pontus is a Korean manufacturer. Amp is from 1979. I think it does 50W/ch based on the front plate meter. I’m most interested in the headphone out, but I’m nervous to plug anything in there yet! Anyone with some insight?



Congratulations TooPoor! I think this was a very good amplifier....in fact you hit probably the jackpot for the price paid...

Read the third comment about this Korean manufacturer here :


http://thestereoclub.blogspot.ca/2009/02/rarity-and-something-of-mystery-pontus.html

«Wow, that's quite a statement to make...and it's wrong. As the manager of a high-end stereo store in the Syracuse, NY area in the late 70's, early 1980's I can assure you Pontus was a legit manufacturer, and their equipment wasn't half bad! We had a complete line; receivers of various wattages, tuner, integrated amplifier and maybe, if I remember right, a cassette deck. We laughed at the name at the time since the 'biggies' were the Pioneer's, Kenwoods, Marantz and such were thought to be the only equipment worth anything. But we also sold Philips and Mitsubishi as well as high end like Threshold, Bryston, Adcom, B&W and so on, so odd brand names were not unusual. In fact, we used Pontus integrated amps in our sound rooms to demonstrate speakers because we felt they were that clean. Clean and cheap high power. One day we opened up a Pontus receiver and were surprised to find fully discrete amplifier components, and good quality semi-conductors at that! Remember at that time, the large scale integrated circuit amplifier blocks were the norm and some of the cheaper stuff used stereo integrated blocks. We sold many "systems" built around Pontus equipment and had very few problems and virtually no returns. I would say that's a pretty good record. If I was a collector I would definitely have a piece of Pontus equipment!»


----------



## Hutnicks

I suspect that Pontus was the first NA market penetration by Kyocera who years later started selling under their own name for a brief period. The build quality was simply astounding at the price point and the audio reflected this.


----------



## TooPoor (Mar 6, 2018)

If anyone wants to see its innards...

https://imgur.com/gallery/JTuym


----------



## hemipowered007

TooPoor said:


> If anyone wants to see its innards...
> 
> https://imgur.com/gallery/JTuym



Have you had a chance to take a listen?


----------



## TooPoor

Excuse my cliche response, but no... I’ve been too busy. The speaker taps are wire only so I’ll have to make something from cable I have lying around from my DIY speaker builds. I’m genuinely impressed by the condition of this thing considering it’s age and that I found it at Goodwill, so my hopes are high.


----------



## sotto123 (Mar 22, 2018)

Been enjoying both the Sansui AU-555A and Sony TA-4650 so much in the past few months that my one time desire to buy an end-game SET 45 amp has lessened. I'm almost completely satisfied at the moment, and my wallet thanks me.

I really can't choose between the two.

The Sony is perfect for daytime listening. I use it every day when working for its incredibly smooth sound and fatigue-free listening experience. Its smoothness tends to be its biggest strength and weakness. It also has a 3D soundstage that is unique to V-Fets too - about the most you're likely to hear from SS.  It doesn't quite have the drive for bass heavy music and everything sounds a bit more distant compared to the Sansui. 

Considering just how unobtanium that old school V-Fet technology is, and I effectively got a brand new model due to servicing and new V-Fets, I don't think I'll ever let it go. It just has such a special, addictive quality to it. They say that V-Fets have terrific synergy and sound incredible when combined with a DHT preamp. Well I haven't had the opportunity to test this out, but it sure sounds great with a NOS tube DAC.

The Sansui, on the other hand, certainly isn't as fast or smooth and it does sound a touch grainy at times. But it's warm, rich, organic tone, drive and intimate soundstage continues to draw me in, suits my musical tastes better and gets my body moving more. I mostly use it at night and for shorter listening sessions. When it comes to long listening sessions the Sony will always win.

Two amps that serve very valuable services which I can't live without. The Sony for the daytime and long listening sessions and the Sansui for when I want to just have fun, feel the music more or just rock out.

I feel that the Sansui AU-777A would bridge the gap between the two, if I could ever find one.


----------



## BobG55 (Mar 18, 2018)

I bought this exceptional sounding vintage Sansui AU-719 integrated amplifier.  It came in yesterday.  The best amp I've owned in the past was the Eddie Current Zana Deux S & based on memory, I prefer the AU-719's sound to the ZDS. *(±)*

Last night I listened to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, 2017 remix by Giles Martin & my long awaited dream, my search for the "BeaTles" Holy Grail sound is here.  I'll describe the sound on another occasion.  Oh, I was listening w/ the original Grado PS1000 which I also consider to be the best headphone. *(±)*

Last but not least I want to thank Richard51 who owns a Vintage Sansui amp & swears by it;.  In sharing his time and his opinions via messages he played a part in my decision to buy this amp.

_*Edit (added) : *_this is from the Vintage Sansui Amps thread on Audiokarma :

_*"There is no dedicated headphone amp section in the AU series. The headphone socket is connected to the main amp but with a pair of resistors to reduce the effective output to the headphone socket.*_
*So, in essence, when headphones are connected you're listening to the same amplifier section that powers your speakers "*


The quality of the pictures doesn't do the amp justice aesthetically.  This amp looks brand new.  I don't own a digital camera or iPhone so the pictures were taken w/ my MacBook Pro Photo Booth camera which is why they are grainy.

*(±)* :* IMHO*

From HiFi Engine :

*Specifications*
Power output: 90 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 10Hz to 20kHz

Total harmonic distortion: 0.015%

Damping factor: 110

Input sensitivity: 2.5mV (MM), 200mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 88dB (MM), 100dB (line)

Channel separation: 65dB (MM), 70dB (line)

Output: 200mV (line)

Speaker load impedance: 8Ω (minimum)

Dimensions: 430 x 168 x 395mm

Weight: 16kg

Year: 1980


----------



## Oregonian

That's a beautiful Sansui................


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> That's a beautiful Sansui................



Thanks Oregonian.  I'm enjoying every moment spent with this amp.


----------



## northendjazz

I found/bought a Technics sl-d202 at the local antique center, just needed a new stylus and a wipe down and cleaned the contacts just in case. Now I have hooked up to my sansui au2200 and with an afternoons listen, yep its keeper. Cost me less than my current TT will sell for so all is good keeping it vintage.


----------



## Rsmor

I have just joined here.  I see this is an old post but could you tell me if my Koss E/9B energizer will work with a Bryston 4B amp?   Hope you get some notification that I am asking this. I am clueless about this website.  Thanks


----------



## GreenNeedle (Mar 25, 2018)

I know people on here talk about the mass power of vintage receivers being the bonus but I bought a Rotel RX-150A a year or so ago, mainly for the phono pre-amp as I bought a Trio Turntable and my Yamaha AV didn't have a pre-amp.

It only does 7.5W per channel at 8 ohms but running it through my speakers (Mordaunt Short Aviano 2) it rarely goes that much above half way because that is pretty loud for home use.  With Sextetts it goes to half way at max. Sounds glorious on speakers or the phones and looks lovely with the green tuner and glowing orange dial pointer.  When I bought it the pointer lamp wasn't working so I replaced it with a 0.4W (I think) one that was supposed to be for a Marantz because I couldn't find a 0.5W (I think) one which is what it was suppose to be.  Can't be sure on those wattages.  I know I bought the closest and it is a tiny "rice" bulb.

I also de-oxited it when I got it and cleaned out a lot of the front after years of sweat and whatever else.  Don't get any noise now when you turn knobs or flick the paddles.

It does not like my Sennheiser 438s though.  Makes them sound like Poundland budget headphones while they sound quite good through the Yamaha RX-V361.  I suppose that headphone input is as described about modern headphone amps although the Sextetts sound fine through that too.  I just think music sounds much much better through the Rotel.

I like the wood effect but I don't like the 70s "English tan" coloured vinyl so I reveneered it (and the turntable) with real macassar ebony and then danish oiled it.  Lovely little amp and does the job.

My room is about 5metres by 4metres.

This is a picture I did after I'd done my veneering but this isn't where it is all at.  That was just to have a show pic like all you lot who have dedicated top space for your stuff (jealous me.) In reality the 48" TV is where the turntable and amp are in the first pic.  The turntable is on a shelf above the TV and the amp is on one of the shelves in the cabinet.  The veneering being dark with the "orange" grained bits reminds me of Galaxy chocolate adverts.  Looks right for a unit made in the era of smoky rooms and tar covered walls....eek.

PIctures:
















This is how it all fits together.  We only have 1 "lounge" so everything is on this cabinet.  TV on top with the Aviano 2s, Turntable above the TV.  Left side has the Rotel at the bottom, Right has the DVD/CD/SACD player, TV boc and Yamaha AV at the bottom.  AV and Rotel are linked to a switch which goes to the LR speakers.  Aviano 7 in the middle instead of a top drawer.







EDIT:  I have looked back into my purchases and the "rice bulb" I put in the dial pointer (inside the existing black rubber/silicon housing) was a Marantz 8V 40ma.  The original in the Rotel should have been 8V 50ma.  It is a clear white bulb and the dial pointer has a very thin red coating at the top of it which is why you get the Orange glow.  The actual pointer is clear plastic so it just takes the "orange" from that thin red coating the white light shines through.


----------



## GreenNeedle

p.s. I read the name Kyocera a lot in this thread (I haven't read all 1000 odd pages.)  I remember back in the late nineties/early noughties there were quite a lot of Kyocera dot matrix printers around.  Never seen or heard of them doing other electronics before this thread.


----------



## KG Jag

GreenNeedle said:


> p.s. I read the name Kyocera a lot in this thread (I haven't read all 1000 odd pages.)  I remember back in the late nineties/early noughties there were quite a lot of Kyocera dot matrix printers around.  Never seen or heard of them doing other electronics before this thread.



See:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/kyocera.shtml


----------



## GreenNeedle (Mar 26, 2018)

Well I must have caught the bug because I just bought a Trio KR-3600.  Was planning to get something to either replace the Rotel RX-150A or just put in the kids bedroom to replace a cheap nasty mini amp they use for the PS4 / bluetooth.  22W per channel vs the Rotel 8W per channel Hmmm.  Will have to test when they get here.  Hope the Rotel wins (on sound) because it looks lovelier.

Sorry to fill up the thread with "baby" amps but I don't do house parties and English houses have smallish rooms anyway.


----------



## BobG55

GreenNeedle said:


> Well I must have caught the bug because I just bought a Trio KR-3600.  Was planning to get something to either replace the Rotel RX-150A or just put in the kids bedroom to replace a cheap nastly mini amp they use for the PS4 / bluetooth.  22W per channel vs the Rotel 8W per channel Hmmm.  Will have to test when they get here.  Hope the Rotel wins (on sound) because it looks lovelier.
> 
> Sorry to fill up the thread with "baby" amps but I don;t do house parties and English houses have smallish rooms anyway.



Congratulations GreenNeedle.  If you can post a couple of photographs we could all see you're new addition.  Like when you have a baby, you know ...


----------



## squee116

GreenNeedle said:


> Well I must have caught the bug because I just bought a Trio KR-3600.  Was planning to get something to either replace the Rotel RX-150A or just put in the kids bedroom to replace a cheap nasty mini amp they use for the PS4 / bluetooth.  22W per channel vs the Rotel 8W per channel Hmmm.  Will have to test when they get here.  Hope the Rotel wins (on sound) because it looks lovelier.
> 
> Sorry to fill up the thread with "baby" amps but I don't do house parties and English houses have smallish rooms anyway.


Depending on whether the PS4 headphone is used for a headset, a USB amp might be necessary.  If it's just for audio out, no problem though.


----------



## GreenNeedle

squee116 said:


> Depending on whether the PS4 headphone is used for a headset, a USB amp might be necessary.  If it's just for audio out, no problem though.



They are only 12 and 13 so they don't do call of duty or anything like that.  Just audio optical out > digital to analog converter > cheap handsized amp > Speakers.  PS4 only has optical out and no RCAs.  Basically it is because TV speakers are carp


----------



## penmarker

GreenNeedle said:


> They are only 12 and 13 so they don't do call of duty or anything like that.  Just audio optical out > digital to analog converter > cheap handsized amp > Speakers.  PS4 only has optical out and no RCAs.  Basically it is because TV speakers are carp


This is in no way a vintage amp, you can try the Topping MX3. They're super small, like hand sized, and has several both digital and analog inputs.
Again, sorry for recommending a non vintage amp. Its not suitable for this thread I know.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Mar 29, 2018)

r2muchstuff said:


> Here is the latest news.
> 
> Battle of the Amps, *this will take a while*.  I prefer to compare with longer listening sessions, not quick A/B test.
> First impressions are .... these Amps have similar SQ.
> ...






I have finally dismantled the test stack.

After all this time here is my short conclusion for headphone use:

The Pioneer is the winner.

The Sansui is just fine, without the Pioneer to campair aganist it would be a keeper.

I tested with various headphones with and without impedance adapters.
More importantly, I tested with amps as integrated (built in pre and main amps connected as usual) and as power amps using the Schiit Vali 2 as the pre amp.
As integrated amps all the controls built into the amps are available for use, such as volume, tone, balance, loudness & filters.  As power amps only the controls of the Vali 2 are available, which is volume control.

Both amps sound very close when using the Vali 2 as pre amp.
The built in pre amps add flavor to the sound and with old amps these pre amp controls can/may add issues and problems.  If nothing else the old switches can be flakey.

The Pioneer comes across as cleaner and more detailed.  Not music genre pickey.
The Sansui comes across as more fun but in the long run not as clean.  Rock guitars are great here.

In all cases I came to prefer the Pioneer.
As an integrated amp when I wanted tone control and all and via the Vali 2 when I wanted the best sound possible from this setup.

As always,
IMHO, JMTC & YMMV
r2


----------



## r2muchstuff

So...
Now I want a Schiit Saga and a Saga sized "Loki" to use as the pre amp for my collection of vintage integrated amps.

The vintage are great and fun but I am finding that their pre sections "hold back" the amp sections.
I have tested this theory with several vintage setups, not just the "test" setup discussed above.

When the amps are off the shelf, out of storage and CLA'd the pre sections are not keeping up with the abilities of the CLA'd amp sections.
However, if the pre amp section of a vintage amp is in really great shape/to spec and or upgraded then all bets may be off.

For me, I will continue to enjoy my vintage collections and my newer Schiit and stuffs.  It may just become more of a combination of the two.

IMHO,
r2


----------



## hemipowered007

r2muchstuff said:


> So...
> Now I want a Schiit Saga and a Saga sized "Loki" to use as the pre amp for my collection of vintage integrated amps.
> 
> The vintage are great and fun but I am finding that their pre sections "hold back" the amp sections.
> ...



I do enjoy using my ifi micro bl as a dac and preamp into my sx1010. Need more time to evaluate exactly what benefits it seems to have, but the last time I listened to it in that configuration with my he4, it seemed a tad more resolving. That could have also just been my brain making me think that. What I also enjoy is I can utilize the xbass and 3d effects of the black label if used as a preamp, also the tone controls on the sx1010. Although for the most part I keep everything off, it adds a fun factor to it especially on the he4 since it takes very well to equalization and tone control changes.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Mar 29, 2018)

hemipowered007 said:


> I do enjoy using my ifi micro bl as a dac and preamp into my sx1010. Need more time to evaluate exactly what benefits it seems to have, but the last time I listened to it in that configuration with my he4, it seemed a tad more resolving. That could have also just been my brain making me think that. What I also enjoy is I can utilize the xbass and 3d effects of the black label if used as a preamp, also the tone controls on the sx1010. Although for the most part I keep everything off, it adds a fun factor to it especially on the he4 since it takes very well to equalization and tone control changes.



What I think, for me, is that the newer pre sections have a "cleaner" SQ.

Stuff has flavors and I have always enjoyed using "knobs".
Tone, balance, loudness, filters and tube (op amp!) rolling have been and are at times used by me.  Flavored sound is not a problem for me. Sometimes I feel like EQ adjustments and sometimes I like it clean.
Matching a headphone to an amp or a tube roll to get what sounds good to you is still EQ adjustment.

This is a long way to say that taking the controls off line is not a great thing for me.  That is part of the reason I enjoy vintage.
But... clean/clarity is also a big thing with me.

I will be configuring several vintage systems with the option of newer pre amps or the matching/built in.

The Pioneer Spec 1/4 system is now able to be switched between the Spec 1 and a Mjolnir 2 as the active pre amp.  This Spec 1 is in great condition with wonderful SQ.  The MJ2 is tubes 
Flavors, flavors and more flavors.

Ain't this stuff fun!,


----------



## hemipowered007

Oh don't get me wrong I use the tone controls on the sx1010, I just try not to for whatever reason trying to be some sort of puritan, but I'm not.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I should add that, IMHO, the vintage pre amps were fine 40 years ago.  Time has not been great for all of the parts involved, switches especially give problems.  Rebuilt they should / can / may preform very well.
It is however easier and potentially lest costly to use newer than to refurb.
All those switches and the number of parts involved make the pre amps more troublesome. The power amp sections are usually easier and less costly to refurb.
It is actually awesome that so many of these vintage are able to preform as well as they do, refurb or not.


----------



## GreenNeedle (Mar 29, 2018)

Well, if anyone in the UK wants to buy the odd lamp bulb for the Kenwood/Trio then I can sort out a decent price seeing as the only ones I could get on ebay (I don't leave the house if I don't need to) was a German Seller offering bulk packs..  So I will have 15 x 8V 300ma (Main tuner lamps), 9 x 8V 200ma (Signal Strength) and 9 x 8V 50ma (Stereo signal indicator) left over if I don't break any. lol.  Cost me more than the receiver itself (all including shipping of course) but I will make it back selling the excess on hopefully.

I've taken a few pictures of the Trio which I'll put up later.  Bit disappointed really in aesthetics because it seems this unit was inbetween styles.  The Wooden sides seem to have been added purely to ease consumers into the metal box era............I'm not keen on the black metal top.....so I've bought some more Macassar Ebony veneer and will get some MDF to make myself a proper box.  Get the router working and end up with a Trio that looks like one of those Luxmans or better.  Amazing FM reception on this amp.  Not hooked it up to anything else yet.  Will wait for the lights because that will make it sound better, he, he.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Mar 30, 2018)

r2muchstuff said:


> I have finally dismantled the test stack.
> 
> After all this time here is my short conclusion for headphone use:
> 
> ...



My SX-1250 blows away any amplifier I have used for both my speakers and my HD600s.  In fact I am considering selling my Rowland Model 1 as the Pioneer even bests that in most respects.  Of course it is restored with all audio grade caps (105 degrees C)  and some of the transistors (sans the 22,000 UF cans and relay which I am doing this week).  When restored I would put this receiver up against almost anything.  Sound wise, it is a head turner and not to shabby looking IMHO.

The list of amps defeated by this receiver includes: Rowland Model 1, Proceed Amp 3, Amber Series 70, SAE 400L, and many other receivers.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Mar 30, 2018)

SpeakerBox said:


> My SX-1250 blows away any amplifier I have used for both my speakers and my HD600s.  In fact I am considering selling my Rowland Model 1 as the Pioneer even bests that in most respects.  Of course it is restored with all audio grade caps (105 degrees C)  and some of the transistors (sans the 22,000 UF cans and relay which I am doing this week).  When restored I would put this receiver up against almost anything.  Sound wise, it is a head turner and not to shabby looking IMHO.
> 
> The list of amps defeated by this receiver includes: Rowland Model 1, Proceed Amp 3, Amber Series 70, SAE 400L, and many other receivers.



Yes, the big Pioneers are the real deal 
I have a SX 1250 serving duty in my beverage/kitchen area.  It is serviced/CLA'd but not as you say restored.
There is a SX 1280 waiting on a restore/rebuild such as your 1250.  It is already great sounding as is in CLA'd only condition.
I prefer the 1250 for looks and build quality, the 1280 wins on tec and specs.
They rotate in and out of duty.

I have an Amber Series 70 also.  In fact the pre, tuner and amp as a system.  Not real sure of my satisfaction with it, glad to hear your take.
Any additional thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## BobG55 (Mar 30, 2018)

hemipowered007 said:


> Oh don't get me wrong I use the tone controls on the sx1010, I just try not to *for whatever reason trying to be some sort of* *puritan*, but I'm not.



I tried being a puritan not long ago.  My wife didn't stop laughing for a whole week.


----------



## SpeakerBox

r2muchstuff said:


> Yes, the big Pioneers are the real deal
> I have a SX 1250 serving duty in my beverage/kitchen area.  It is serviced/CLA'd but not as you say restored.
> There is a SX 1280 waiting on a restore/rebuild such as your 1250.  It is already great sounding as is in CLA'd only condition.
> I prefer the 1250 for looks and build quality, the 1280 wins on tec and specs.
> ...



All I know is the more mods I make the better I like the 1250!  Can't wait to hear what it sounds like with the new 22,000uf cans in place.  Also going to replace all the 2.2uf electrolytic caps in the tone board with film - should help things also.  Don't get me wrong, the Rowland sounds awesome, but it may have to go.  We shall see!


----------



## PhoenixG

Anyone else listening to their system today? Im enjoying the new lorde album and getting the led out. What’s everyone else enjoying?


----------



## SirMarc (Apr 21, 2018)

A little Beach Boys, then maybe some Zeppelin...


----------



## SirMarc (Apr 21, 2018)

Getting ready to spin Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans


----------



## Oregonian

Spinning a little vinyl this morning.................


----------



## hemipowered007

SirMarc said:


> A little Beach Boys, then maybe some Zeppelin...



Address? Be there in a bit


----------



## SirMarc

Oregonian said:


> Spinning a little vinyl this morning.................


Looking good my man!


----------



## SirMarc

hemipowered007 said:


> Address? Be there in a bit


Come on down! Maybe I'll even smoke you up lol


----------



## hemipowered007

I gotta goto Oregonians house first


----------



## Skylab

A little Zeppelin is always a good bet


----------



## jaywillin

Skylab said:


> A little Zeppelin is always a good bet



can't go wrong there
that reel to reel is a beauty !


----------



## Rossliew

Anyone here want to sell their refurbed SX1250 and ship it to Malaysia?


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Hi All,

I have this vintage Sony, a hand me down from my father from one of his old collections of amplifiers. I really like how it sounds on my HD800S, I have a Focal Utopia on the way and just wondering if it is safe to use this amp on it? the specs of the amp is:

Outputs : 3x Rec out (150mV / 1kOhm)
Adaptor out (150mV / 470 Ohm)
Headphones (25mW / 8 Ohm)
Speakers (2 pairs, 4...16 Ohm)

based on:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-F700ES.html







TIA


----------



## ChevyMonsenhor

Here's my baby, Onkyo Integra A-817XD, JDM exclusive from 1988 that for reasons beyond my understanding ended up in Brazil.


----------



## frahengeo

Oregonian said:


> Spinning a little vinyl this morning.................


That looks fantastic!!

One thought though...I guess one could argue that since Pioneer designed the system/rack, heat dissipation from the Amp should not be a concern, but I'm still alarmed by the Amp not having enough breathing room.


----------



## Monsterzero

3ggerhappy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have this vintage Sony, a hand me down from my father from one of his old collections of amplifiers. I really like how it sounds on my HD800S, I have a Focal Utopia on the way and just wondering if it is safe to use this amp on it?



While I think its quite safe to use,it has been my experience that dynamic headphones in the 250 ohm and higher range sound the best from vintage gear. Typically I have gotten bass bloat when trying low-z headphones (Utopia is 80ohms) from the jack of my vintage gear. I should also add that planar headphones seem to do just fine from receivers regardless of ohms.

YMMV


----------



## Oregonian

frahengeo said:


> That looks fantastic!!
> 
> One thought though...I guess one could argue that since Pioneer designed the system/rack, heat dissipation from the Amp should not be a concern, but I'm still alarmed by the Amp not having enough breathing room.



Though the picture looks like the EQ has no clearance to the amp, there's actually a good inch or two top and bottom around the amp and no blockage on the sides.


----------



## KG Jag

Monsterzero said:


> While I think its quite safe to use,it has been my experience that dynamic headphones in the 250 ohm and higher range sound the best from vintage gear. Typically I have gotten bass bloat when trying low-z headphones (Utopia is 80ohms) from the jack of my vintage gear. I should also add that planar headphones seem to do just fine from receivers regardless of ohms.
> 
> YMMV



I generally agree--especially for receivers and amps from the late 60's into the early 80's.  In those days most headphones were about 250 Ohms--with the exception of the early Senns, which were relatively rare for all or most of that time.  Nevertheless it's always worth giving it a try--starting at a very low volume level.


----------



## Oregonian

I'm the least technical in relation to ohms and how the headphone and amp need to "match" but I will say this - even using my Denon LA7000's out of 5 different vintage amps there has been no bass bloat or any noise floor issues.  May be due to condition of internals?  Not sure but have not found a headphone that didn't sound good out of vintage amps.


----------



## 3ggerhappy (May 9, 2018)

KG Jag said:


> I generally agree--especially for receivers and amps from the late 60's into the early 80's.  In those days most headphones were about 250 Ohms--with the exception of the early Senns, which were relatively rare for all or most of that time.  Nevertheless it's always worth giving it a try--starting at a very low volume level.





KG Jag said:


> I generally agree--especially for receivers and amps from the late 60's into the early 80's.  In those days most headphones were about 250 Ohms--with the exception of the early Senns, which were relatively rare for all or most of that time.  Nevertheless it's always worth giving it a try--starting at a very low volume level.



Thanks for the reply guys, ill definitely try it when it comes.


Just would like to share, this are not mine but my fathers. stacked up collection through many years. Can anyone identify the brands from the bad quality pics any of them good? or which are good for headphones? I grew up listening to them, well not really never did pay attention/appreciation back then. Until i tried one really just now with the sony above , and i really like how it sound. Maybe i could get another one  from him.


----------



## KG Jag

3ggerhappy said:


> Thanks for the reply guys, ill definitely try it when it comes.
> 
> 
> Just would like to share, this are not mine but my fathers. stacked up collection through many years. Can anyone identify the brands from the bad quality pics any of them good? or which are good for headphones? I grew up listening to them, well not really never did pay attention/appreciation back then. Until i tried one really just now with the sony above , and i really like how it sound. Maybe i could get another one  from him.



Not many silver faces there and most that are appear to be other than amps/receivers.  So most of his equipment is probably later than the lines I know.  If there is a Yamaha in the group, I'd start with that.  Better yet--ask your dad.


----------



## Rossliew

Any thoughts on vintage receivers from Onkyo and Rotel? Specifically the Onkyo TX-8500 MK ii


----------



## Monsterzero

Rossliew said:


> Any thoughts on vintage receivers from Onkyo and Rotel? Specifically the Onkyo TX-8500 MK ii



I have the TX-6500 MKll(120wpc). Its not the most sexy looking receiver I own(that title belongs to my Kenwood Eleven GX) but it sounds damn good. I would say compared to my warm sounding Sansuis,the Onkyo is more detailed and a tad brighter. Of course there are other variables that could explain the sound differences,but thats how I hear it.

Im not sure I would pay a small fortune for one(got mine about a 18 months ago for under $300.00) but its a good sounding unit.


----------



## richard51

A lot of Sansui there.... if my eyes are sharp enough though....that speaks volume about good taste ....




3ggerhappy said:


> Thanks for the reply guys, ill definitely try it when it comes.
> 
> 
> Just would like to share, this are not mine but my fathers. stacked up collection through many years. Can anyone identify the brands from the bad quality pics any of them good? or which are good for headphones? I grew up listening to them, well not really never did pay attention/appreciation back then. Until i tried one really just now with the sony above , and i really like how it sound. Maybe i could get another one  from him.


----------



## Rossliew

Monsterzero said:


> I have the TX-6500 MKll(120wpc). Its not the most sexy looking receiver I own(that title belongs to my Kenwood Eleven GX) but it sounds damn good. I would say compared to my warm sounding Sansuis,the Onkyo is more detailed and a tad brighter. Of course there are other variables that could explain the sound differences,but thats how I hear it.
> 
> Im not sure I would pay a small fortune for one(got mine about a 18 months ago for under $300.00) but its a good sounding unit.



Thanks for that. Selling price is kinda steep for an unfurnished unit so I think I’ll pass.


----------



## hemipowered007

Picked up a new integrated today for a price I couldn't say no to. 1st marantz I've actually owned, heard a few but don't believe me or my father ever had one. Late 70s model, be fun to go thru the next few weeks and see how she sounds.


----------



## KG Jag

hemipowered007 said:


> Picked up a new integrated today for a price I couldn't say no to. 1st marantz I've actually owned, heard a few but don't believe me or my father ever had one. Late 70s model, be fun to go thru the next few weeks and see how she sounds.



Looking forward to reading your observations.


----------



## hemipowered007

Good new/bad news. It works, bad news is, someone has done some tweaker work in this thing. Looks like it was PROFESSIONALLY serviced in 2000, some caps have been replaced, I see no bulging caps or fried resistors, but I see alot of terrible work done by someone else as well. Extremely bad solder joints on the lamp modules, electrical tape wrapped solder joints, broken plastic everywhere. My nice $60 find is becoming a much more time invested project. Ordered 7 new bulbs, new feet, have to find a new lamp housing as thus one is ruined, and I thought it looked fancy. I can tell you one thing, the build quality of this, compared to my pioneer sx1010, is night and day. This marantz feels like a wal mart $1 section piece compared to the pioneer. Oh well, I'll get her shined up, back to beauty, and maybe get her fitted with a nice wood case (doubtful). Luckily my research on audio karma shows quite a few owners of both sx1010 and 2238bs enjoying botb. So looks and build aside, as long as she sounds good, I'll be happy.


----------



## BobG55

hemipowered007 said:


> Picked up a new integrated today for a price I couldn't say no to. 1st marantz I've actually owned, heard a few but don't believe me or my father ever had one. Late 70s model, be fun to go thru the next few weeks and see how she sounds.



That's the exact first quality receiver I bought back in 1980 along with a Philips turntable and Castle speakers.  It's a warm sounding receiver if memory serves me right.  I kept it until the late 80s before selling it.  It's well made and looks great.  Congratulations hemipowered007.


----------



## kid vic

3ggerhappy said:


> Thanks for the reply guys, ill definitely try it when it comes.
> 
> 
> Just would like to share, this are not mine but my fathers. stacked up collection through many years. Can anyone identify the brands from the bad quality pics any of them good? or which are good for headphones? I grew up listening to them, well not really never did pay attention/appreciation back then. Until i tried one really just now with the sony above , and i really like how it sound. Maybe i could get another one  from him.



I see a bunch of Sansui's probably a couple kenwoods, a pioneer (or a look alike) and a yamaha.
All should be good, chances are generally low that they'd damage a headphone too


----------



## yates7592

Just joining this thread, and to say that I've just bought a nice looking Sansui AU-717 in seemingly very good condition (largely thanks to BobG55's recommendations for his 719). I've not received the amp yet, and its getting sent direct to a trusted engineer for a full service and (probable) re-capping. So it will be 2-3 weeks likely before I see anything. Really looking forward to using this with my HD800's, I think they will pair very very well, but will report back.


----------



## Monsterzero

yates7592 said:


> Just joining this thread, and to say that I've just bought a nice looking Sansui AU-717 in seemingly very good condition (largely thanks to BobG55's recommendations for his 719). I've not received the amp yet, and its getting sent direct to a trusted engineer for a full service and (probable) re-capping. So it will be 2-3 weeks likely before I see anything. Really looking forward to using this with my HD800's, I think they will pair very very well, but will report back.



I think you will find that the vintage gear will be warm sounding vs. newer SS amps and will make for the-next-best-thing to your recently departed GOTL.


----------



## yates7592

Monsterzero said:


> I think you will find that the vintage gear will be warm sounding vs. newer SS amps and will make for the-next-best-thing to your recently departed GOTL.



Yes, I think you are right. No tubes, but next best thing.


----------



## hemipowered007

yates7592 said:


> Yes, I think you are right. No tubes, but next best thing.



Alot of vintage amps have a close to tube like sound for sure. That's the first thing that blew me away with my sx1010, very tube like. Can't wait to see some pics of the sansui, that's one brand I also need to own a piece from, among many others


----------



## Monsterzero (May 14, 2018)

hemipowered007 said:


> Alot of vintage amps have a close to tube like sound for sure.



When I do a/b from my La Figaro 339 to any of my vintage receivers the tone is very similar,to the point where I have to do an a/b/a/b/a/b...The biggest difference (to my ears) are the tubes tend to bring a wider and much deeper sound stage.
On my vintage gear the depth of the staging is almost flat.

On the flip side,the vintage stuff has gobs more power,and usually has a more impactful mid bass,which many tubes tend to roll off a bit.


----------



## BobG55

yates7592 said:


> Just joining this thread, and to say that I've just bought a nice looking Sansui AU-717 in seemingly very good condition (largely thanks to BobG55's recommendations for his 719). I've not received the amp yet, and its getting sent direct to a trusted engineer for a full service and (probable) re-capping. So it will be 2-3 weeks likely before I see anything. Really looking forward to using this with my HD800's, I think they will pair very very well, but will report back.



Congratulations on your purchase yates7592.  I'm sure you'll enjoy this amp very much.  There are differences in sound though between the AU-717 & the AU-719, the basic one being the _warmer sound signature _of the AU-717 although I've never listened to the latter.  My comments are based on my research and this forum in particular who's link I'm posting for your convenience.  I would start with post #9 (the post number appears at the bottom right hand side of each one) since the comments on the first 8 posts appear to be based on misinformation.     The members posting address, for the major part,  the build and sound differences between the two models.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-au-719-vs-919.519327/


----------



## SirMarc

Monsterzero said:


> When I do a/b from my La Figaro 339 to any of my vintage receivers the tone is very similar,to the point where I have to do an a/b/a/b/a/b...The biggest difference (to my ears) are the tubes tend to bring a wider and much deeper sound stage.
> On my vintage gear the depth of the staging is almost flat.
> 
> On the flip side,the vintage stuff has gobs more power,and usually has a more impactful mid bass,which many tubes tend to roll off a bit.


I find my Kenwood and Pioneer receivers to be pretty flat in the soundstage, but still good sounding, my 9090 has very good width and depth with my speakers and 650's


----------



## hemipowered007

My sx1010 is as open sounding as I've ever heard my he4, sx727 on the other hand is alot more closed in. There truly is something special about the 1010, I wjll.never stop recommending that piece of gear


----------



## Monsterzero

Yup,same here. I like to roll receivers,rotating them in and out of my system. Im currently running my Akai for my desktop setup and feeding a pair of Focal Aria 905s. They have very nice soundstage and imaging,but for headphones it doesnt match the same staging my 339 provides. I have a Glenn OTL incoming and im guessing that will increase the disparity further.


----------



## Monsterzero

hemipowered007 said:


> My sx1010 is as open sounding as I've ever heard my he4, sx727 on the other hand is alot more closed in. There truly is something special about the 1010, I wjll.never stop recommending that piece of gear



I do want to grab a 1010 eventually,most likely after I can afford a McIntosh 4100....which might never happen. Macs are $$$


----------



## SirMarc

hemipowered007 said:


> My sx1010 is as open sounding as I've ever heard my he4, sx727 on the other hand is alot more closed in. There truly is something special about the 1010, I wjll.never stop recommending that piece of gear


My dad had a 1010 back in the day. I remember it being a damn fine sounding receiver. Good for you man


----------



## hemipowered007

SirMarc said:


> My dad had a 1010 back in the day. I remember it being a damn fine sounding receiver. Good for you man



It's my 2nd one, and while I rarely get to use it, I hope I never sell this one


----------



## Silent One

Slowly taking my rig out of mothballs this month, piece-by-piece:


----------



## Monsterzero

Silent One said:


> Slowly taking my rig out of mothballs this month, piece-by-piece:



Is that a Sansui 33000? Holy crap man....God tier!!!!


----------



## hemipowered007

Silent One said:


> Slowly taking my rig out of mothballs this month, piece-by-piece:



And what is this may I ask


Silent One said:


> Slowly taking my rig out of mothballs this month, piece-by-piece:



Well now, thats, well, that's ****ing awesome


----------



## Silent One (May 15, 2018)

It's my 1978 Sansui G-22000. Though company rated @ 220 wpc/8 ohms, vintage iron was conservatively rated. Our fellow member here does indeed have the G-33000.

And YES...via speaker taps!


----------



## KG Jag

This one:

https://classicreceivers.com/category/receivers/sansui/g-33000


----------



## Silent One

When a tech gave my unit a complete "bench," every internal piece graded well within specs! So I'm holding off a full restoration until year 2020 perhaps. Should I suddenly discover extra cash lying about...right then and there! These units have a gorgeous sound. Bought mine from a single owner in 2013 for some $1580 if memory serves. 

Rumor has it only 4,000 units (2,000/each model) were ever made before global recession hit!


----------



## Monsterzero

Silent One said:


> These units have a gorgeous sound. Bought mine from a single owner in 2013 for some $1580 if memory serves.



That my friend,is a steal and a half!


----------



## PhoenixG

Great to see the BIG G out in the wild again! Silent One was the person who originally encouraged me to take the plunge into a Big G as well. It is hands down the best receiver I have ever heard. Currently spinning "Tommy" by the Who. Please pardon the mess...



 

For team Sony, some 6120's. I just love those little amps. Absolute best value on the market at about $4-700 ( I may or may not have four of them....). I use it as a 'hot swap' whenever the 33000 is down for maintenance and they sound darn good. I also loan them out to friends who are looking for vintage hi-fi but don't have the same patience to go on the same kind of journey I undertook. The sony 6120 or 6200f are absolute end game units by their own right in the absence of a holy grail unit.


 



Silent One said:


> Slowly taking my rig out of mothballs this month, piece-by-piece:


----------



## KG Jag

Those Sonys are sweet.  

See: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sony/str-6120.shtml

I just got a somewhat never but lest powerful STR-7055, which was second from the top of the line then.  It is a beautiful and sweet piece of kit.

One problem with those great TOTL late 70's monsters is that they will not fit on a shelf of almost all audio racks.  My Sansui G-7500 and Yamaha CR-820 barely fit.  Forget it for the TOTL (and probably second banana) Pioneer, Sansui, Sony, etc. from that great era of silver faced classics.


----------



## Silent One

Limited real estate :   :
And that's the brilliance of Sansui, designing the "Big G's" in two pieces. Amusingly, I was so excited during the hour ride home, never thought about where it would go! Walked in, took a look around, left for the garage and returned with a flatbed dolly and went about my business of getting lunch! 

Night shots :   :
Okay folks, let's light 'em up! and get some night shots of your vintage lovelies...


----------



## jaywillin

Silent One said:


> Limited real estate :   :
> And that's the brilliance of Sansui, designing the "Big G's" in two pieces. Amusingly, I was so excited during the hour ride home, never thought about where it would go! Walked in, took a look around, left for the garage and returned with a flatbed dolly and went about my business of getting lunch!
> 
> Night shots :   :
> Okay folks, let's light 'em up! and get some night shots of your vintage lovelies...




what a beauty !


----------



## jaywillin

just babies here : the 330c, and sx580


----------



## SirMarc

Spinning Aja in the dark


----------



## jaywillin

SirMarc said:


> Spinning Aja in the dark



aja is classic ! 
is that a lava lamp to the right ??   i need to get myself one


----------



## SirMarc

jaywillin said:


> aja is classic !
> is that a lava lamp to the right ??   i need to get myself one


Yup, not completely heated up in that picture. And yes, you need one! No man cave is complete without one...


----------



## SpeakerBox (May 20, 2018)

KG Jag said:


> Those Sonys are sweet.
> 
> See: https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sony/str-6120.shtml
> 
> ...



Yes, the size issue is a problem.  I finally got off my duff and built a rack for my 1250.  Also included a marble top for my TT.  Perfectly level and vibration resistant.





The 1250 has now been totally recapped (with film caps placed where ever I can fit them).  Much warmer and smoother sound now:


----------



## KG Jag

Well done.


----------



## SpeakerBox

KG Jag said:


> Well done.


Thanks! It sure does sound good!


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> Yes, the size issue is a problem.  I finally got off my duff and built a rack for my 1250.  Also included a marble top for my TT.  Perfectly level and vibration resistant.
> 
> 
> 
> The 1250 has now been totally recapped (with film caps placed where ever I can fit them).  Much warmer and smoother sound now:



Nice


----------



## northendjazz

I can't compete with the scale of these amps/receivers but my newly refurbished Pioneer SA-3000 sure sounds sweet.  I have found a solid mix of vintage and modern, with Vintage amplification and one vintage source (turntable) the rest a digital source, NOS dac and valve preamp  are modern.


----------



## KG Jag

northendjazz said:


> I can't compete with the scale of these amps/receivers but my newly refurbished Pioneer SA-3000 sure sounds sweet.  I have found a solid mix of vintage and modern, with Vintage amplification and one vintage source (turntable) the rest a digital source, NOS dac and valve preamp  are modern.



Nothing wrong with a quality 25 (early 70's) to 50 (late 70's) RMS watts/channel vintage amp or receiver.  Then as now, that's generally where you get get the most value for you $.


----------



## jaywillin (May 26, 2018)

anyone have an idea as to what model infinity speaker this is ??




sm150 ??


----------



## Skylab

They look like SM-150’s to me.


----------



## jaywillin

Skylab said:


> They look like SM-150’s to me.



yeah, been doing some research, i think so too, a pair is for sale locally, the guy is asking $100 and that also includes the Pilot rack system


----------



## Skylab

That’s a pretty fair price if they are in good shape. That’s not Infinity’s best work...a little on the boom-boom-tweet-tweet side of things - but can be a fun speaker depending on what you’re looking for and the rest of your system etc etc.


----------



## jaywillin

they are going to be too big for my room i do believe, it's pretty small, so i'm probably going to pass on them


----------



## PhoenixG

Finally getting to my record store day purchases! I played Bowie's "Let's Dance" and Pink Floyd's "Piper at the Gates of Dawn".
My impressions: Bowie was a 12" 45 and really not what I was expecting. FIrst off, it was two different single versions of Let's Dance instead of a repressing of the original 'Let's Dance' album. It sounded kinda thin, but ultra clean and low noise, so I'm sure they intended it like that. Kinda a bizarre take, but somewhat in line with the style of his last album more than it was in line with the original copy. It was so different I had to pull out my vintage copy to compare them just to make sure I had remembered correctly...
Pink Floyd was exactly what I was expecting. It was a pleasant and faithful reproduction of the original version. It felt just like buying a new album should. This album is filled with fuzz and distortion by design, so it'll sound good on anything, and it did. 
I'm happy with the albums I bought, if only for the excuse to pull out some original Bowie for a listen haha.


----------



## yates7592

Servicing and restoration of my AU-717 has been finished and it should finally be with me on Friday. It has been re-capped throughout major and minor (Nicichon KG Gold Tune for majors), signal switches modded, replacement major power supply diodes and bridges, new speaker binding posts, bias level / DC offset checked, glue removal, Tech says it sounds 'sweet'. Very excited to receive and settle down to some serious listening! Whilst I was waiting for the work to be completed I picked up a AU-217 on ebay and I must say I am extremely impressed with that amp. Bass and punch on HD800 with AU-217 is beyond anything I've ever heard with them before. Time to sell on the AU-217.
I will initially be using HD800 from the headphone out, but would I hear a better SQ from the speaker taps? I read some people have said there is an improvement using speaker taps compared to HO (but that was with HE6).


----------



## Monsterzero

yates7592 said:


> but would I hear a better SQ from the speaker taps? I read some people have said there is an improvement using speaker taps compared to HO (but that was with HE6)



I have tried three headphones from speaker taps:

HE-500-I heard no significant difference between taps and jack.
HE-6- Dont have much choice here...Taps are the only way to go.
ZMF Atticus- I heard a slight improvement in clarity,but the difference wasnt worth the tradeoff of almost no wiggle room between silent and ear bleeding loudness.

I have no experience with the HD800,but I would assume the results would be similar to what I experienced with the Atticus.

YMMV


----------



## hemipowered007

He4 u hear a difference between speaker taps and hp out on my sx1010, it's not some night and day difference but it's enough to where I was using taps everytime. But I didn't want to leave them connected and now just use hp out, still sounds great! Like monsterzero said, it will depend on amps specs and hp sensitivity on if you have enough control on the volume pot to make minor volume changes as opposed to massive swings. The he4 is fine thus way, my denon d2k is not, goes from 0 to 100 and has more noise. Fostex t50rp build is heavily dampened so much less efficient than stock, taps work OK with it but not really worthwhile. He4 is the only one where it was worth it and even still, subtle but noticeable changes. I also only did it because I had a spare cable and just cut the XLR off and bare wired straight to the terminals.


----------



## Silent One

Summer 2018 :    :

Finally got my gears installed inside new listening room! Here's what happened..._and what happens next.
- _Need a new audio rack. Coffee table got crushed during before move. Overflow components from main rack went there; now temporarily thrown against any of the three remaining walls.
- Just finished muscling everything in to place. Will spend 'The Fourth' installing cables, TT motor & belt. 
- Business appointments resume Monday the 9th, lots of good listening to be had between now and then.



 

 

Re: speaker taps
Piloting the Big 'G' with the HE-6, I prefer taps each and every time! Occasionally I'll try to match volume when comparing. Hpo needs much more turn of that dial! Not really problem. Will revisit comparisons this week for sonic differences with my vintage lovely.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Head Hunters on vinyl.  Great recording.  I have on CD.  Bet it is even better on vinyl.  Nice rig.


----------



## SpeakerBox

New toy in the house.  VPI scout with Denon DL110.  Running it into my dual mono Leach phono stage and then into the adaptor input on the 1250 (bypass some 1250 circuitry that way).  The sound is stunning, but took a while to get the VPI set up.  Don't want to do it again for a while.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Jul 17, 2018)




----------



## KG Jag

Yup--they take a while, especially if the cartridge isn't pre-installed.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## KG Jag

^ Sweet rig.


----------



## iliketowrap19

https://reverb.com/item/13308026-technics-sa-5760-1976-silver

Does anyone have experience with these?


----------



## KG Jag

iliketowrap19 said:


> https://reverb.com/item/13308026-technics-sa-5760-1976-silver
> 
> Does anyone have experience with these?



I don't, but this may be of some help:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/technics/sa-5760.shtml


----------



## iliketowrap19

Pulled the Trigger on the Sa5760


----------



## Monsterzero

It seems to be a well regarded receiver,and apparently not very common. Congrats.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> It seems to be a well regarded receiver,and apparently not very common. Congrats.


Thanks! I'll need to mentally prepare myself to lift this thing up the stairs when it comes lol.


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah looks like a beast. 165wpc?!?  Are you going to use it for the HE6?


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah looks like a beast. 165wpc?!?  Are you going to use it for the HE6?


Yea. I have the HE-6 coming in tomm but I'll have to wait some time to hook it up.


----------



## Monsterzero

Did you get a tap cable made,or are you using the HE adaptor? I suggest the tap method,but be damn careful. Dont turn it up loud for speakers and then forget and plug in your headphones!

The most power I gave my HE6s was 125wpc and I had very little wiggle room,like maybe 8:30 on the volume.


----------



## KG Jag

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah looks like a beast. 165wpc?!?  Are you going to use it for the HE6?



That would just get you an honorable mention in the late 70's power wars.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jul 25, 2018)

KG Jag said:


> That would just get you an honorable mention in the late 70's power wars.



Sure,but unless you have a spare 5 grand laying around for the SA-1000,I think its little brother for 1/10th the price is a deal I could live with.


----------



## KG Jag

Monsterzero said:


> Sure,but unless you have a spare 5 grand laying around for the SA-1000,I think its little bother for 1/10th the price is a deal I could live with.



^ While the Technics is at the top of the list, that is longer than most would expect.  See:

https://classicreceivers.com/the-most-powerful-vintage-receivers-of-all-time

Prices of course will vary.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Did you get a tap cable made,or are you using the HE adaptor? I suggest the tap method,but be damn careful. Dont turn it up loud for speakers and then forget and plug in your headphones!
> 
> The most power I gave my HE6s was 125wpc and I had very little wiggle room,like maybe 8:30 on the volume.



The package I got has wire taps coming with them. I don't have speakers at least for now.


----------



## Monsterzero

KG Jag said:


> ^ While the Technics is at the top of the list, that is longer than most would expect.  See:
> 
> https://classicreceivers.com/the-most-powerful-vintage-receivers-of-all-time
> 
> Prices of course will vary.



Yep,seen that list many times. If you go to eBay,or AK,anytime a *BIG* monster comes up theyre usually several grand. Its rare to find a true vintage receiver over 100wpc for less than grand,unless its a beater or sold for parts.
I no longer have an HE6,so Ive no need for such a beast of a receiver. I am tracking a specific 90wpc receiver from McIntosh. Have yet to find it for less than a grand,and prolly never will. I have too many receivers already,and other things in this hobby that need my cash more at this time.


----------



## KG Jag

Monsterzero said:


> Yep,seen that list many times. If you go to eBay,or AK,anytime a *BIG* monster comes up theyre usually several grand. Its rare to find a true vintage receiver over 100wpc for less than grand,unless its a beater or sold for parts.
> I no longer have an HE6,so Ive no need for such a beast of a receiver. I am tracking a specific 90wpc receiver from McIntosh. Have yet to find it for less than a grand,and prolly never will. I have too many receivers already,and other things in this hobby that need my cash more at this time.



McIntosh is another animal entirely.  But for main line TOTL or near TOTL name brand receivers your prices will vary depending on where you shop; how long you look; and a bit of luck.  This fall I bought a fully refurbished Sony STR V-7 from one of the top vintage audio shops in Austin for about 3 bills under $1,000.  Granted it "only" has 150 watts per channel.  These monster receivers are great, but you have to have a place to put them.  You will be very hard pressed to find one that will fit in a standard--even standard vintage-- audio rack. When I have, I had to take glass doors off to get the receiver to fit and even then the rack would not support the weight on any center shelf--where I want my receiver.

If you go to the mid 80's, you can still get quality with power to spare.  The TOTL black face Yamaha R-9, which can be picked up for maybe a third of what I paid for the Sony, is still of excellent quality and pumps out a very healthy 125 watts per channel.  It is also the second generation of Yamahas with a remote.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Built a rack for my SX-1250 due to the space issue mentioned here.  That Pioneer beast sounds magnificent.  One of things I was careful to do when I recapped it was where ever possible, I replaced electrolytic caps with film (if it would fit).  If not a good fit, I used audio grade Nichicon.  That effort has paid off in some of the most transparent, detailed sound I have heard.  Pin point imaging also, many times on the outside edges of the speakers.  All my other amps have been sold off in favor of the Pioneer.


----------



## BobG55

a specific 90wpc receiver from McIntosh. Have yet to find it for less than a grand said:
			
		

> Well then Monsterzero, I don't suppose you'll be buying one of these.   It's advertised like this on the McIntosh site (love the first line which I put in Bold) :
> 
> 
> *LB100*
> ...


----------



## Oregonian

SpeakerBox said:


> Built a rack for my SX-1250 due to the space issue mentioned here.  That Pioneer beast sounds magnificent.  One of things I was careful to do when I recapped it was where ever possible, I replaced electrolytic caps with film (if it would fit).  If not a good fit, I used audio grade Nichicon.  That effort has paid off in some of the most transparent, detailed sound I have heard.  Pin point imaging also, many times on the outside edges of the speakers.  All my other amps have been sold off in favor of the Pioneer.



Got a pic of that rack?  I love the vintage Pioneer sound.................


----------



## SpeakerBox

Oregonian said:


> Got a pic of that rack?  I love the vintage Pioneer sound.................


----------



## Oregonian

Nice job..............super nice and a perfect fit.


----------



## Monsterzero

What the hell is it? A Light Box? MAC's version of The Clapper?


----------



## BobG55 (Jul 27, 2018)

Monsterzero said:


> What the hell is it? A Light Box? MAC's version of The Clapper?



On the McIntosh website you click on "Products" followed by "Merchandise".  They sell all sorts of different items with McIntosh displayed on the item somewhere.  They realize that nowadays a lot of people love displaying the fact they own certain "prestigious" brand name items. They make money & the items they sell become free advertisement for them.  It's a win win proposition for them. They make money & free advertisement at the same time.  I've posted the link to their "Merchandise" page below. 

Check out how they introduce their "Merchandise" page :



*MERCHANDISE*​_What better way to accentuate your McIntosh home audio or home theater system than with official McIntosh merchandise? Whether it be pieces to decorate your listening room or items to take with you when you leave home, you'll be sure to get the same high quality product you expect from McIntosh._

So, it's a display item to decorate your listening room for a mere $1,500





https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/merchandise


----------



## BobG55

Error.


----------



## northendjazz

I'm at the "small monster" end of the scale with my Pioneer SA3000, it fits on a Ikea YPPERLIG Shelving unit along with the rest of the chain and some non audio stuff. It was bought recapped so I had no choice in the caps used here is part of the listing -
"
The amplifier has been fully refurbished and restored, ensuring that it sounds as good as possible and runs trouble free for years to come.

    Both power amplifiers have been rebuilt with new up rated filter capacitors, and high voltage film bypass capacitors to improve noise filtering through the rectifiers and power supplies.
    Small signal capacitors have been upgraded to high quality WIMA film capacitors which won't deteriorate in the same why electrolytic capacitors age.
    Fresh computer grade thermal compound has been applied to the output transistors and the external heatsinks have been cleaned.
    Deteriorating resistors have been replaced with new.
    Idle current and DC offset checked and set.
    Pre-amp power supply rebuilt with new up rated Nichicon PW capacitors.
    Voltage regulators replaced with new larger regulators to improve stability.
    Phono pre-amp rebuilt with new Nichicon low leakage and Panasonic capacitors with small value capacitors being upgraded to film capacitors.
    Phono pre-amp final stage transistors replaced with larger transistors to improve thermal stability at Class A.
    Power pilot lamp converted to low voltage LED.
    All pots and switches cleaned and re-lubricated.
    Fascia deep cleaned and polished.

After this, the amplifier has been run in to allow the new parts to burn in."

I've only been listening to speakers for a couple of years, weird I know but I was brought up on headphones. I have to say I love what the pioneer kick's out more and more as every hour I listen.


----------



## Monsterzero

BobG55 said:


> So, it's a display item to decorate your listening room for a mere $1,500
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That link has some of the most pretentious items for sale that Ive seen.
A MAC towel? Flashlight? Golf clubs. DOH!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Oregonian said:


> Nice job..............super nice and a perfect fit.



Thanks much!


----------



## SpeakerBox

northendjazz said:


> I'm at the "small monster" end of the scale with my Pioneer SA3000, it fits on a Ikea YPPERLIG Shelving unit along with the rest of the chain and some non audio stuff. It was bought recapped so I had no choice in the caps used here is part of the listing -



With the work done on this unit I have no doubt it will sound awesome.  Congrats!


----------



## Oregonian

Was gifted a pair of brand new in the box JBL 4311B speakers (boss had two sets - one in service and one he never used! when he sold his house and needed to clear them out so gave them to me along with a pickup truck load of surround sound  stuff (most of which went to Goodwill) along with a KLH 10" sub..............pulled the Klipsch speakers out of the Spec system and tried the JBL's.   Love the sound - and today put the sub in the system on the B speaker outputs.  Subs are not overrated - they add a "fill" to the sound I wasn't sure I needed but is clearly a benefit.  Steely Dan Aja was my test song, as usual, and when Steve Gadd gets drumming on the solos it is incredible.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice rig and what a deal on the JBLs.  And yes, Steve Gadd knows how to play drums.  He grew up right in my back yard in Rochester NY.


----------



## PhoenixG

Woah, what a thorough work through of that amp! With that much work done, the tech probably ran it to make sure the amp didn't burn up (more so than to 'burn in' new parts).



northendjazz said:


> I'm at the "small monster" end of the scale with my Pioneer SA3000, it fits on a Ikea YPPERLIG Shelving unit along with the rest of the chain and some non audio stuff. It was bought recapped so I had no choice in the caps used here is part of the listing -
> "
> The amplifier has been fully refurbished and restored, ensuring that it sounds as good as possible and runs trouble free for years to come.
> 
> ...


----------



## PhoenixG

WOW! New in box!? As a gift! I've got to find a friend like that haha!
Great acquisition man, thanks for the photos!



Oregonian said:


> Was gifted a pair of brand new in the box JBL 4311B speakers (boss had two sets - one in service and one he never used! when he sold his house and needed to clear them out so gave them to me along with a pickup truck load of surround sound  stuff (most of which went to Goodwill) along with a KLH 10" sub..............pulled the Klipsch speakers out of the Spec system and tried the JBL's.   Love the sound - and today put the sub in the system on the B speaker outputs.  Subs are not overrated - they add a "fill" to the sound I wasn't sure I needed but is clearly a benefit.  Steely Dan Aja was my test song, as usual, and when Steve Gadd gets drumming on the solos it is incredible.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Very confused on what Im supposed to do here.


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 1, 2018)

iliketowrap19 said:


> Very confused on what Im supposed to do here.



You need to remove the banana plugs,and get the termination down to bare wire.
You will notice that someone marked them R+ & R-. + goes into the red ,negative goes into black.

To remove,it looks like you can unscrew the tightener at thee back of each plug and the wires will come out easy.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> You need to remove the banana plugs,and get the termination down to bare wire.
> You will notice that someone marked them R+ & R-. + goes into the red ,negative goes into black.


How would I go about doing that?


----------



## Monsterzero

I edited the above post


----------



## Monsterzero




----------



## iliketowrap19

THIs  what I’m left with


----------



## Monsterzero

Ive never encountered that before. I would assume you can cut off those ends and then strip away the rubber outer coat to expose bare wire. Keep track of which is which as he has labeled them. To be sure I would contact whomever made them for you just to be 100% sure.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Ive never encountered that before. I would assume you can cut off those ends and then strip away the rubber outer coat to expose bare wire. Keep track of which is which as he has labeled them. To be sure I would contact whomever made them for you just to be 100% sure.


The speaker outputs on the amp doesn't look the same the one in the video or some others i've seen. am I supposed to do something to that little black and red area?


----------



## Monsterzero

Yeah those are old school connectors,which every vintage receiver Ive owned has. 

You push down with your thumb on the red and black tabs,which if you look in you will see opens up a small circle that the bare wire gets fed into.


----------



## Monsterzero

Did you get it figured out?


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Did you get it figured out?


I think so. I'm testing it right now. I have an R2R 11 what switch do I put the output and input to??


----------



## iliketowrap19

What do I check on and off so I don’t fry the phones


----------



## Monsterzero

Youre going to need to run RCA cables from the output of the R2R-11 into the AUX input of the receiver. If you have the jumper on the R2R-11 set to variable you can simply put the volume on the R2R-11 at 50%,unless you feel like opening up the top of it and switching the jumper manually,something I never bothered doing when I owned it.

If your receiver doesnt have an AUX input try using TAPE-IN. Just dont use the phono input.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Youre going to need to run RCA cables from the output of the R2R-11 into the AUX input of the receiver. If you have the jumper on the R2R-11 set to variable you can simply put the volume on the R2R-11 at 50%,unless you feel like opening up the top of it and switching the jumper manually,something I never bothered doing when I owned it.
> 
> If your receiver doesnt have an AUX input try using TAPE-IN. Just dont use the phono input.



Alright, I have the RCA's on AUX and output set to variable. What about the technincs itself. This thing has so many buttons...


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Alright, I have the RCA's on AUX and output set to variable. What about the technincs itself. This thing has so many buttons...



Indeed. It looks like your balance button needs to be set to 50/50. Also make sure volume is down to zero,and turn it up slowly. You probably need to set the source to whichever input you connected to as well.

Also only engage whatever speaker source youre using,as opposed to both.


----------



## Monsterzero

You got music yet?


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Indeed. It looks like your balance button needs to be set to 50/50. Also make sure volume is down to zero,and turn it up slowly. You probably need to set the source to whichever input you connected to as well.
> 
> Also only engage whatever speaker source youre using,as opposed to both.



OMG! It works! Testing it out on 500's Thank you so much!


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> You got music yet?


Yea but I do hear passive static without any music playing.


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Yea but I do hear passive static without any music playing.



Take a pic of the rear of both R2R and receiver and let me see what you have. It could be that one or more things isnt connected correctly,or it might be a dirty pot,which will need a tech to clean.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Here is what the back looks like


----------



## iliketowrap19 (Jan 24, 2019)

X


----------



## Monsterzero (Aug 1, 2018)

iliketowrap19 said:


> Here is what the back looks like


Looks correct.

Take trouble shooting one step at a time.

First try running into TAPE 1 playback,see if that helps. Then proceed to TAPE 2. If that doesnt help try switching the speaker wires to your other tap. If all that fails you might need to take it to technician to have pots cleaned,which shouldnt cost too much.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Theres no static when I turn on "High Filter"


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> No pic attached on my end.


edited the post to attach pics.


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Theres no static when I turn on "High Filter"



Try my suggestions first. High filter cuts the treble,which most likely you dont want to do. If my suggestions do not work,your receiver needs a visit to the doctor.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Try my suggestions first. High filter cuts the treble,which most likely you dont want to do. If my suggestions do not work,your receiver needs a visit to the doctor.


Alright will do once I get back from the grocery store. Thanks again so much! If I was left alone, I wouldn't even know where to start with all of this!


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Alright will do once I get back from the grocery store. Thanks again so much! If I was left alone, I wouldn't even know where to start with all of this!



No problem. Keep us posted.


----------



## hemipowered007

iliketowrap19 said:


> Alright will do once I get back from the grocery store. Thanks again so much! If I was left alone, I wouldn't even know where to start with all of this!



Cleaning a vintage amp isn't hard if youre willing. Use deoxit and lps1 and an air compressor to blow everything out before and after. You don't want to leave either on pots or switches really. Deoxit cleans boards but spray it off after lightly scurvving w a soft toothbrush or similar. Pots I use lps1, let sit for 30 seconds or so then turn back/  fourth 50 to 100 times, blow out and do it another 50 times with another light coat of lps1. Switches same thing, spray, push in and release 50 to 100 times, blow out and repeat. Stay away from deoxit on pots, lps1 is the way to go. And if you don't know what "pots" are, it's potentiometer, so all your controls, ie; volume, balance, tone controls blah blah. Now I do use deoxit for speaker terminals and headphone jacks and use a pipe cleaner or similar, but once again, clean pretty quick and air blow it all out. When you have itnopen look for heat marks/burnt boards, bulging capacitors, corrosion etc. Take your time, I for one find it very relaxing and enjoyable. You can find more info on the audiokarma boards far as amp repairs go.


----------



## iliketowrap19

I tried it once again and this time, I hear little to no static passively


----------



## iliketowrap19 (Aug 1, 2018)

Do the Bass and Treble Knobs actually make a difference? Also, how possible is it to get the Fm/Am working again? 

Edit: Had to push up the tone button. The Bass on these with the 500's slams


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> The Bass on these with the 500's slams



Try the "Loudness" button....and hold onto your butt.


----------



## hemipowered007

iliketowrap19 said:


> Do the Bass and Treble Knobs actually make a difference? Also, how possible is it to get the Fm/Am working again?
> 
> Edit: Had to push up the tone button. The Bass on these with the 500's slams



The tone controls on some vintage units are very fun to play with. The he4 I have can rumble my head if I play with bass on my sx1010. So I'm sure the he500 takes well to hardware boosts as well, enjoy that amp!


----------



## SpeakerBox

iliketowrap19 said:


> Do the Bass and Treble Knobs actually make a difference? Also, how possible is it to get the Fm/Am working again?
> 
> Edit: Had to push up the tone button. The Bass on these with the 500's slams



What is wrong with your AM/FM?


----------



## iliketowrap19

SpeakerBox said:


> What is wrong with your AM/FM?


No signal.


----------



## Monsterzero

Most likely you need an antenna.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Most likely you need an antenna.


Haven't seen one of those since 2006 lol.


----------



## iliketowrap19

The Bass on the HE-6 and 500's with help from the Technics Slams so hard and is so visceral... I never thought power could affect headphones so much.


----------



## KG Jag

iliketowrap19 said:


> The Bass on the HE-6 and 500's with help from the Technics Slams so hard and is so visceral... I never thought power could affect headphones so much.



Yup--unless you properly feed the HE-6 with enough power and well recorded, quality music, you have not really heard them.


----------



## SpeakerBox

KG Jag said:


> Yup--unless you properly feed the HE-6 with enough power and well recorded, quality music, you have not really heard them.



Two thumbs up on that!    I find that true of most HPs.


----------



## iliketowrap19

SpeakerBox said:


> Two thumbs up on that!    I find that true of most HPs.


The left driver of my HE-6 just went out


----------



## SpeakerBox

iliketowrap19 said:


> The left driver of my HE-6 just went out



There is always the possibility of loose connection.  If you have a meter you could ohm out the right and left sides to check for a difference or an open circuit.

I would think the only way you blow the driver is if you are listening at the threshold of pain.


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> The left driver of my HE-6 just went out



Sorry to hear that.
Check my video review of the HE6 and then you will understand why I sold them.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> Check my video review of the HE6 and then you will understand why I sold them.



Yea I watched that video... 4 pairs is really insane.


----------



## iliketowrap19

SpeakerBox said:


> There is always the possibility of loose connection.  If you have a meter you could ohm out the right and left sides to check for a difference or an open circuit.
> 
> I would think the only way you blow the driver is if you are listening at the threshold of pain.


Nope I've been very careful about that. My 500's are running at the same level with no issues. The driver went out when I tried to adjust the bass.


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Nope I've been very careful about that. My 500's are running at the same level with no issues. The driver went out when I tried to adjust the bass.



Same. My 500s never failed on me,but frankly I didnt find a huge difference between taps and straight out of the HP jack of any of my receivers. I sold them thinking I'd never use them since I had the HE6.
Still kick myself for that.


----------



## KG Jag

SpeakerBox said:


> Two thumbs up on that!    I find that true of most HPs.





KG Jag said:


> ^^ First you must understand that you cannot use the Grados in public, as they leak like a sieve and isolate not at all.  It that's still OK with you, I recommend the SR 60e, which is the most improved to my ears with the change from the i to e series.  It's the best bang for the buck by far.



Not so much for many headphones--like all the Grados.  However, I have heard many headphones over the decades since the 60's, and no headphone I have heard benefits from and needs power to sound its best like the HE-6 does.


----------



## BobG55

Three weeks ago I found a Pioneer PD-91 for sale on Canuck Audio Mart.  It's the best CD player I've owned.  Since then I found that my two vintage integrated amps sounded much better than my Airist Audio Heron 5 headphone amplifier. The sound coming from the PD-91 + Kenwood KA-8006/ Sansui AU-719 is absolutely phenomenal. So today I sold the Heron 5.  No regrets. 

My headphones are : HD600, HD650, GS1000i & RS1 w/ buttons.   

I took a photo of my setup w/ my MacBook Pro camera so the quality leaves to be desired (I don't own an iPhone, cell phone or digital camera)

Here's my present set-up :


----------



## DJtheAudiophile

Hello, can anyone help answer those question. Is the Marantz 2230 strong enough to drive the Sennheiser HD650 properly? Thanks.


----------



## Monsterzero

DJtheAudiophile said:


> Hello, can anyone help answer those question. Is the Marantz 2230 strong enough to drive the Sennheiser HD650 properly? Thanks.



Yes


----------



## SpeakerBox (Aug 28, 2018)

Interesting though, my HK330A which is also capacitor coupled like the 2230 does not do well on the HD600s (15WPC less than the 2230 also).  The 600s really sound dead on the HK.  Though it sounds fantastic with the Sony MDR-V6 and MDR-7506.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The stabilizer board went out on my 1250 a couple of weeks ago (Bummer!).  I rebuilt it though.  Back up and running.  Really missed it when it was down.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## BobG55

Silent One said:


>



Audio Heaven


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice gear Mr. SO!


----------



## kid vic

Hope my mailman didnt break his back with this one.

 

A very well packed receiver.
 

Home frome the shop and ready to get plugged in! My brand new (to me) Kenwood KA-9100! Released during the same era as the supreme series with the KA-7100 being a baby Model 500.
Next thing is to buy and restore a Model 500...


----------



## KG Jag

That's why they have Jeeps!

Happy listening.


----------



## kid vic

KG Jag said:


> That's why they have Jeeps!
> 
> Happy listening.



Haha not here in Canada


----------



## KG Jag

Land Rovers?


----------



## SpeakerBox

kid vic said:


> Haha not here in Canada


Who is pictured in your avatar?


----------



## kid vic

KG Jag said:


> Land Rovers?


Dinky little milk vans 




SpeakerBox said:


> Who is pictured in your avatar?



Haha, it's elton john


----------



## SpeakerBox

kid vic said:


> Dinky little milk vans
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was one of my guesses.  And yes, that receiver was very well packed!


----------



## BobG55

kid vic said:


> Hope my mailman didnt break his back with this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Congratulations kid vic.  It's a beauty.  I've had my Kenwood KA-8006 for 12 years now & I just love it.  Am listening to it as I'm writing this.  Hope you enjoy it.  If/ when you feel like it, let us know how you like it.


----------



## jaywillin

SpeakerBox said:


> Interesting though, my HK330A which is also capacitor coupled like the 2230 does not do well on the HD600s (15WPC less than the 2230 also).  The 600s really sound dead on the HK.  Though it sounds fantastic with the Sony MDR-V6 and MDR-7506.



I have a HK330c, and I love it !


----------



## BucketInABucket

jaywillin said:


> I have a HK330c, and I love it !



I have the big brother, the HK 930, and it sounds simply fabulous!


----------



## Oregonian

Added a Marantz 2285B to the fleet this week..........employee who is moving cross country and was clearing out his house.  Knew I was a vintage nut and offered me this and a nice pair of Pioneer speakers for $100............jumped on it as most of you would have.  Gave the speakers to a buddy and the Marantz is going in for service (tuner alignment/bias adjust, deoxit and LED light conversion) shortly.  Case and front is in great shape other than it has a lot of dust/gunk on the knobs/switches which is an easy fix.


----------



## Monsterzero

Oregonian said:


> offered me this and a nice pair of Pioneer speakers for $100



Man,I need friends like that!


----------



## SpeakerBox

BucketInABucket said:


> I have the big brother, the HK 930, and it sounds simply fabulous!



Would love to hear a 930 someday.  You have to watch it with the 330A though, as it does not have the heat-sinking needed to run it hard w/o extra ventilation.  They goofed a bit on the design.


----------



## SpeakerBox

jaywillin said:


> I have a HK330c, and I love it !



Nice unit, have heard good things about it.


----------



## BucketInABucket

SpeakerBox said:


> Would love to hear a 930 someday.  You have to watch it with the 330A though, as it does not have the heat-sinking needed to run it hard w/o extra ventilation.  They goofed a bit on the design.


Sorry, do you mean the 930 doesn't have the heatsinking or the 330A doesn't have it?


----------



## SpeakerBox

BucketInABucket said:


> Sorry, do you mean the 930 doesn't have the heatsinking or the 330A doesn't have it?



No, just a poorly worded response by me.  Was just commenting on how I have to be careful with my 330A due to the lack of heat sinks.


----------



## Skylab

The SX-3900 is now gone and there is a fully restored SX-1280 in its place in the basement rig. Sounds better to these ears, not that the 3900 was any slouch.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Skylab said:


> The SX-3900 is now gone and there is a fully restored SX-1280 in its place in the basement rig. Sounds better to these ears, not that the 3900 was any slouch.



Maybe I missed this, but do you still have a 1980?


----------



## Skylab

SpeakerBox said:


> Maybe I missed this, but do you still have a 1980?



Oh yes, my 1980 will be with me for life, even if I have to hire special help to move it when we eventually leave this house after I retire (which will be 10-12 years from now). It’s in my attic man-cave rig. I’m a lucky guy - 3 separate systems!


----------



## Oregonian

Rob..............oh so sweet.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Skylab said:


> Oh yes, my 1980 will be with me for life, even if I have to hire special help to move it when we eventually leave this house after I retire (which will be 10-12 years from now). It’s in my attic man-cave rig. I’m a lucky guy - 3 separate systems!



Ya, did not figure you would get rid of that.


----------



## BucketInABucket

SpeakerBox said:


> No, just a poorly worded response by me.  Was just commenting on how I have to be careful with my 330A due to the lack of heat sinks.


Oh I see, I remember the Yamaha CR-1020/2020 having the same problem. Speaking of which, I need to do the service bulletin mod on my 1020 eventually...


----------



## BobG55 (Oct 19, 2018)

I'm looking for someone's opinion on the *sound *difference(s) between two rare vintage CD players : The Pioneer PD-91 & the Pioneer/ Elite PD-93 which I own but have not found much information about.
If anyone on this thread own a PD-93 or would you be kind enough to share your opinions on it's *sound *compared to the PD-91 just to get someone else's opinion rather than just my own*.  *

Thanking you all in advance.


----------



## Nik74

Helll everyone 

Apologies if this is not entirely the right thread for this. 
The vintage amplifier that I want to discuss is a 1995 Conrad Johnson preamp the Premier 14. 
I ve had it for nearly 20 years, used it till 2000 then life etc , long story it was in storage till a few months ago. I took it to be serviced and re- valved and thought of selling it as I only have a headphone rig and no space for a hi end set up. Given the fact it has cosmetic blemishes and it would end up being sold for peanuts I decided to keep it. 
A few days ago though I did an experiment and connected it to my DAC and headphone amp, just to see how the whole thing might sound together. 
I know that from a purist point of view this is essentially adding noise to the signal and colouration so was expecting a slight or significant degradation in sq. How surprised I was... I was rewarded with a warm, lush , classy typical CJ sound, a vast soundstage, effortless detail and micro and macro dynamics, a deep bass perhaps on the thicker side - great for my 800S-, and a really musically engaging pace. Is it neutral sounding , no, clearly neutral is not my preferred sound signature it seems. But just so great at fleshing out music !
My question is, despite what I perceive as sq that I enjoy , am I doing something technically inexcusable using essentially two preamp stages as my head amp has a volume control too? Is there a way of optimising this pairing, eg using the tape out of the CJ rather than the main output? 
I m technicallly clueless , all I know is that I seem to have accidentally tweaked my sound to an unexpected very enjoyable flavour. 
Any thoughts greatly appreciated


----------



## Nik74




----------



## DJtheAudiophile

Vintage magic.
I will take a picture of my turntable, receivers, and etc. once they are done getting repaired.


----------



## TheAnalogman

Skylab said:


> The SX-3900 is now gone and there is a fully restored SX-1280 in its place in the basement rig. Sounds better to these ears, not that the 3900 was any slouch.


You need to stop, my friend. .You always have the coolest gear. Are your favorite headphones still the ones in your sig line?


----------



## Skylab

TheAnalogman said:


> You need to stop, my friend. .You always have the coolest gear. Are your favorite headphones still the ones in your sig line?



Thanks! These days when I do listen to headphones it’s DT-880/600’s


----------



## hemipowered007

Man....I need to work more overtime


----------



## northendjazz

Not an integrated amp or a receiver, I found something else vintage  a pair of AKG K240 Sextett's a similar age to pioneer sa-3000. A good match for the pioneer and while I enjoy various planar's via the headphone out, these sextett's are now first choice.


----------



## Monsterzero

northendjazz said:


> Not an integrated amp or a receiver, I found something else vintage  a pair of AKG K240 Sextett's a similar age to pioneer sa-3000. A good match for the pioneer and while I enjoy various planar's via the headphone out, these sextett's are now first choice.



Sextetts are phenomenal headphones. Heres my humble review of them.


----------



## northendjazz

Monsterzero said:


> Sextetts are phenomenal headphones. Heres my humble review of them.




Yep, I checked your review before pulling the trigger, I think they are MP and need new elastic and the pads where a little flat. I fixed the pads with a donut/ring of 5mm foam underneath them to keep my ears off the grill. Most importantly I love the presentation seems to suit my pioneer.


----------



## Monsterzero

northendjazz said:


> Yep, I checked your review before pulling the trigger, I think they are MP and need new elastic and the pads where a little flat. I fixed the pads with a donut/ring of 5mm foam underneath them to keep my ears off the grill. Most importantly I love the presentation seems to suit my pioneer.


The elastic is always shot on these. If you don't want to take them apart you can use elastic hair ties on the outer knobs. Works very well.


----------



## kid vic

Monsterzero said:


> Sextetts are phenomenal headphones. Heres my humble review of them.






northendjazz said:


> Yep, I checked your review before pulling the trigger, I think they are MP and need new elastic and the pads where a little flat. I fixed the pads with a donut/ring of 5mm foam underneath them to keep my ears off the grill. Most importantly I love the presentation seems to suit my pioneer.



I find the Sextetts are brilliant for Jazz and Classical but very lack luster for most everything else. The K7XX and K240 sextett combo is IMO an almost picture perfect wide ranging combo for any use and genre.


----------



## Monsterzero

kid vic said:


> I find the Sextetts are brilliant for Jazz and Classical but very lack luster for most everything else



Interesting. I have a very limited collection of both those genres and never use headphones for them. 
For me I like them for metal and rock,moreso than several four digit costing headphones.


----------



## kid vic

Monsterzero said:


> Interesting. I have a very limited collection of both those genres and never use headphones for them.
> For me I like them for metal and rock,moreso than several four digit costing headphones.



Hahaha your predominate listening (from what I've gathered) is metal and classic rock; I have very little of those genres and my predominate genre choices are RnB, Rap, Jazz, Classical and Electronic in more or less that order. When i do listen to progressive/harder rock (Queens of the Stone age, Rage against the Machine, Tool etc) I usually go for the HE-500s. 
Personally I've always had a love hate relationship with the Sextetts, more than I did with the K240 studios though I can't deny the Sextetts are technically superior. I have the LP's fyi


----------



## BobG55 (Oct 17, 2018)

When I first started out in this hobby the latest, popular and what we call "the flavour of the month" headphones & headphone amps were all I could think about.  I put myself in debt in order to  try the ones that would take me to the headphone audiophile promised land.  Well, I'll never be able to afford a Stax SR-009 or a Shangrai-La tube amplifier but I did own some good equipment at one time or another.

The Focal Utopia (used), HD800 (used and new) , HD800 S (new), PS1000, PS1000e, etc., the Zana Deux S, Headamp GS-X MKII, Taurus MKII, etc.  I've also owned a very expensive Esoteric CD player, PS Audio PerfectWave MKII DAC (PWD), etc.

All gone.  I've technically regressed, according to what most headphone audiophiles are using.  For the better part of a year now my main system consists of a Pioneer/ Elite PD-93, 20bit (1989-92) & my vintage Kenwood KA-8006 integrated amplifier.  My secondary system consists of a Pioneer PD-91, 18bit (1987-92) & a Lyr 1.  My headphones are mid-range price, HD600 & HD650 (both of which I've owned for years), the HE500, Grados GS1000i & RS1 w/ buttons which are a bit more expensive &  the cheapest, the DT880/ 600 ohm.

My PD-91 is built like a tank with copper & has the PCM63 20-bit, one of the best of the world’s Audio in DAC chips; the PD-93 is built the same way with the PCM65 – one of the best, most expensive and rare multibitnikov, with parallel input DAC chip.  My Kenwood has tone adjustment switches & I use the Schiit Loki in conjunction which gives me two sound equalizers counting the swictches on the Kenwood to _adjust _the sound as needed.

It's by far the best "sounding" system I've owned up to now.  I've hesitated proclaiming this in the past but I would venture to say that this is my end game except for the "piece de resistance" which I hope to acquire in the next year or two and that is a Pioneer SX-1980.  As far as headphone amps go, nothing that I can and have been able to afford sounds as good as a good vintage amp IMHO.  As for owning an headphone amp I have a Lyr 1,  that, I like to go back to occasionally for the fun of it but, I no longer _*long *_for them.

Now I sit back and enjoy listening to the music as opposed to analyzing the sound which I did too much of in the past.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Agree 100%.  In my case proceed, Amber, SAE, and Rowland amps all gone.  Replaced with restored Pioneer SX 1250.  The only thing remaining on my end game list is a Fisher 400, 500, or 800 receiver to drive my ls3/5a clones.


----------



## richard51 (Oct 17, 2018)

My endgame is my actual amplifier a vintage Sansui AU 7700, my actual dac  of minimal design is my only non vintage piece, and my 2 AKG vintage headphones+my vintage  top of the line Mission speakers... I can say that I begin to enjoy music listenings with top of the line vintage products...


----------



## BucketInABucket

Well I just impulse-bought a pair of LS7s...any ideas with which to pair it with? Have a HK930, Yammy CR1020, Rotel RX802, Fisher 500T and 700T, Sony STR-6060FW and Kenwood KA-6000...


----------



## SpeakerBox

BucketInABucket said:


> Well I just impulse-bought a pair of LS7s...any ideas with which to pair it with? Have a HK930, Yammy CR1020, Rotel RX802, Fisher 500T and 700T, Sony STR-6060FW and Kenwood KA-6000...



Not familiar with those, but if they are anything like the ls3/5a speakers you will want something with warmth. Quad 303 comes to mind, and also many tube amps, but out of your list I would guess the HK would be best.


----------



## DJtheAudiophile

I have a Marantz 6100 Turntable, Marantz 2230 Reciever, Marantz 2215B Reciever, and a Marantz SD 800 Cassette Deck. All that is left to get is a Marantz EQ-130 and Marantz 6150 Turntable and I'll be finished working on my vintage audio setup.


----------



## Oregonian

BucketInABucket said:


> Well I just impulse-bought a pair of LS7s...any ideas with which to pair it with? Have a HK930, Yammy CR1020, Rotel RX802, Fisher 500T and 700T, Sony STR-6060FW and Kenwood KA-6000...



Try them all?


----------



## BucketInABucket

Oregonian said:


> Try them all?



Can't at the moment, they're all in the UK! Trying to decide which one to bring overseas with me...


----------



## Oregonian (Oct 22, 2018)

BucketInABucket said:


> Can't at the moment, they're all in the UK! Trying to decide which one to bring overseas with me...



Got it.  Maybe ask this question over on Audiokarma.  Lots of speaker guys there who could figure which receiver to try.  I'd personally go for the Yamaha but only because I haven't heard the other..........and the one Yammy I tried was the 1020.


----------



## kid vic

BucketInABucket said:


> Can't at the moment, they're all in the UK! Trying to decide which one to bring overseas with me...



Id say Yamaha or Kenwood personally.


----------



## BobG55 (Nov 1, 2018)

My audiophile system is all vintage except for the Schiit Loki equalizer.  Top photo is my Pioneer Elite P-93 which I purchased recently.  The following photo is of my Kenwood KA-8006 int. amp. which my brother gave to me twelve years ago.  I was with him in 1974 when he bought it.  The bottom photo is of my system w/ my now almost vintage Grado GS1000i.  I can adjust the sound with the low & high switches for bass & treble on my Kenwood; also the loudness is optional and the sound signal can be adjusted.  I like it at -10dB.  The Loki gives me two equalizers along with the switches on my amp.  My two favourite sound equalizers on the Loki are the sub bass & mids adjustments.  They complement the equalizing options of my amp. The sound is absolutely sublime.  Everything is so well balanced, smooth and detailed without any graininess, harshness or roll offs.  The bass is tight and the loki controls the sub bass perfectly.    Wish I could post better photos but I don't own a digital camera and have never owned a cell phone/ i Phone, etc.  Photos are taken w/ my MacBook Pro camera.

P.S. I was going to purchase a Pioneer SX-1280 which was serviced a couple of years ago but there's only so much money for now and Christmas time is coming.  The seller told me that if it's still available in the Spring time he'll contact me.  He lives two hours away, by car from my home so I would get to try out the amp, not pay and risk damage via s&h.  For now I'm more than satisfied with this set up.


----------



## BobG55

I've been looking at this Pioneer vintage amp the A-91D and tried to find information about it online.  There are a couple of good _*technical aspects *_articles about the amp but nothing much about it's _*overall sound*_.   Has anyone owned one or have any listening/ sound experience to share about this amp ?  I'd appreciate it very much.  Thanks.  Here are the specs : 

*Specifications*

Power output: 120 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 1Hz to 150kHz

Total harmonic distortion: 0.003%

Damping factor: 60

Input sensitivity: 0.25mV (MC), 2mV (MM), 150mV (line)

Signal to noise ratio: 83dB (MC), 95dB (MM), 109dB (line)

Output: 150mV (line)

Digital inputs: coaxial, optical

Dimensions: 457 x 475 x 173mm

Weight: 29.2kg

Year: 1987


----------



## Monsterzero

BobG55 said:


> Year: 1987



Do you know if they were using op-amps for headphones instead of resistors by 1987?


----------



## r2muchstuff

Unfortunately, I have not owned this amp or it's siblings.  The closest I have ownership experience with is the A-77X.  Starting with the SA 9800 Pioneer created the non-switching amplifiers, I am using one for headphones and with high ohm Beyerdynamic it is fantastic.  The SA 9800 & SA 8800 are very nice sounding amps, full rich and detailed  The A-77X continued the non-switching design, now Type II, and on paper is better than the SA 9800.  I have not noticed any real difference, my A-77X needs service so it has been a bit since I have heard it.  The A-91D has a Type III non-switching design.  I heard them years ago and would like to own a sample of the series.  I doubt many amps of the era and price range would sound any better.


----------



## r2muchstuff

Monsterzero said:


> Do you know if they were using op-amps for headphones instead of resistors by 1987?



The schematic shows that the headphones were taped off the speaker lines, with 330 ohms of resistor.


----------



## r2muchstuff

I may have jumped the gun on the ohms, here is the actual diagram:


----------



## BobG55

r2muchstuff said:


> I may have jumped the gun on the ohms, here is the actual diagram:



Since I've never been able to grasp the technical aspect of audio, what does this mean exactly about the headphones output ?


----------



## r2muchstuff (Nov 3, 2018)

Not an expert but my understanding - The 330Ω  resistor and .001µf cap are in parallel. The two resistors are in series. A tuned circuit?
???????????????

The earlier SA 9500II has a 150 ohm resistor, the SA 9800 and A 77X amps have a 330 ohm resistor.

Edit - removed incorrect information -


----------



## Monsterzero

r2muchstuff said:


> Output impedance should be 330 + 180 for 510 ohms. Which is high.



So what ohm headphones would that sound the best with? I still cant wrap my age addled brain around the whole formula thing.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Nov 2, 2018)

The resistors are a safety feature  Simply; they reduce the volume level to a safe level for headphones, however the impedance mismatch between the output and your phones may affect SQ.  300 and 600 ohm headphones may work better with these circuits.  I prefer 300/600 ohm Beyerdynamic or HifiMan planar magnetic with the SA 9800 and my other vintage amps.
Some enjoy the 300 ohm Sennheiser HD 600/650 with their vintage, to me they become bass heavy and lose sparkle.


----------



## r2muchstuff (Nov 3, 2018)

I am not sure how an A 91D would sound, my worst case amps have the 330 ohm out put.
It may not matter to the planar types and the 300/600 ohm phones may still be OK.

The A 91D is the first amp schematic I have looked over that has the two resistors and a capacitor in the headphone out put.

Maybe it is time for folks with more knowledge/experience to jump in.

Aside:  Some consider the A 77X and A 88X to be the first, but not branded as such, Elite amps.

Edit - to remove incorrect information


----------



## r2muchstuff

News flash...

510 ohms at a headphone out on any amp does not make any sense.

So, I talked to my relative who worked in electronics and has way more knowledge/experience in these matters.  From our discussion he indicated that the tuned circuit that I was describing (above in post 17795) would require a more complex calculation to determine the final ohms.  He would need to see the diagram and work it out, which he cannot get to now. His guess is that this circuit should be no worse than previous amps with the single 330 ohm resistor circuit.

Maybe someone here, with more circuit knowledge, will be able to give a correct resistance figure.

Anyway, the good news appears to be that if the head phones work well with 330 ohm out put amps, then they are most likely going to work as well on the A 91D.


----------



## robrob

The 180 and 330 ohm resistors form a voltage divider to cut the output signal voltage by 35% or 17dB. The load impedance the amp sees is also affected by the resistors. With 32 ohm headphones the load would be 209 ohms so way above the typical 4 to 16 ohm speaker load but solid state amps are ok with that. Tube amps would not like that high of a load and can damage the output transformer or power tube/circuits.

The .001uF cap would bleed very high frequencies (beyond human audio) to ground to enhance amplifier stability and prevent oscillation and ringing. I've never used these caps so you could most likely clip them out with no ill effects.

Here's a "headphone resistor network calculator" I did for these types of calculations:

https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm


----------



## r2muchstuff

robrob said:


> The 180 and 330 ohm resistors form a voltage divider to cut the output signal voltage by 35% or 17dB. The load impedance the amp sees is also affected by the resistors...
> 
> Here's a "headphone resistor network calculator" I did for these types of calculations:
> 
> https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm



I could not remember where I had seen this.  Thank you for posting the link.
I was looking for the formula for the Effective HeadPhone Output impedance, not only do you show the formula you provided a calculator; very cool.
Also, thanks for providing the purpose of the capacitor in this case.  I was guessing that it is for frequency limit, but was unsure which frequencies are limited.

I never knew a lot and have forgotten most of what I did know 
Thanks again.


----------



## Mowgli (Nov 6, 2018)

I recently replaced my unrestored Marantz 2275 with a recapped Yamaha A-720 that I traded a small box of unwanted CDs for. Good value CDs so a fair trade.
He'd recapped it (replaced the Black Gates with Elna Silmics), replaced some transistors and did a few other tweaks over the few years he used it.
I just found his original update thread - http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/yamaha-a-720-some-modest-updates.628641/ - d'oh, not much info there
The 600Ω DT880s sound great on it. I never liked broadcast radio so this integrated should do it. I'm still thrilled to the gills with it.
I'll update that Denon CDP to a 15** series when I get around to it.






First thing I did when I swapped them was give my Klipsch 5.2s a workout. I don't always listen to White Zombie but when I do so do my neighbors.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yamaha always made nice stuff.  I have had two Yamaha surround receivers that did not sound bad in stereo mode.  Nice find!


----------



## hemipowered007

One of my coworkers wanted me to look at his amp/preamp, says it has some static. It's an older Bedini amp set. From what I read, this should be pretty awesome to listen to once I've gone thru it. Pictures to come.


----------



## BobG55

*Pioneer SX-1980 available - US Audio Mart*


https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649477701-pioneer-sx1980/


----------



## SpeakerBox

BobG55 said:


> *Pioneer SX-1980 available - US Audio Mart*
> 
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649477701-pioneer-sx1980/



Too rich for me, although I would love to have one!


----------



## SpeakerBox

That said I just got a Fisher 400 and am in the process of restoring using the kit from Metalbone.  The documentation with this kit is exceptional!


----------



## hemipowered007

BobG55 said:


> *Pioneer SX-1980 available - US Audio Mart*
> 
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649477701-pioneer-sx1980/



Anyone want to buy a kidney?


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> Too rich for me, although I would love to have one!





hemipowered007 said:


> Anyone want to buy a kidney?



On Canuck Audio Mart there are two SX-1980 selling for $6,200 CAN ($4682 US) & $6,800 CAN ($5136 US) respectively.  

That's more than a kidney, isn't it ?


----------



## hemipowered007

BobG55 said:


> On Canuck Audio Mart there are two SX-1980 selling for $6,200 CAN ($4682 US) & $6,800 CAN ($5136 US) respectively.
> 
> That's more than a kidney, isn't it ?



Is that all a kidney goes for now?


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> That said I just got a Fisher 400 and am in the process of restoring using the kit from Metalbone.  The documentation with this kit is exceptional!



Congratulations SpeakerBox.  Let us know how it sounds once you've restored it.


----------



## PhoenixG

That's a good price! Almost too good for a piece in good shape. Nice find Bob!



BobG55 said:


> *Pioneer SX-1980 available - US Audio Mart*
> 
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649477701-pioneer-sx1980/


----------



## BobG55

PhoenixG said:


> That's a good price! Almost too good for a piece in good shape. Nice find Bob!



I thought so too.  The only drawback is that the seller has no prior sales/ feedback on the site.  That's a red flag, not necessarily an automatic scam but a potential buyer has to be on guard and diligent in a case such as this one.


----------



## SpeakerBox

BobG55 said:


> Congratulations SpeakerBox.  Let us know how it sounds once you've restored it.



Thanks, I have the power supply done.  Lots more to go.  Will report back soon.


----------



## DJtheAudiophile

Got this big and beautiful vintage beauty for $10. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 
Sony - STR-6045 FM-Stereo/ FM-AM Receiver, circa 1971.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice, and for a great price!


----------



## PhoenixG

DJtheAudiophile said:


> Got this big and beautiful vintage beauty for $10. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
> Sony - STR-6045 FM-Stereo/ FM-AM Receiver, circa 1971.


That's a lot of receiver for $10!!!! I used one of those for a few months while I was on a long trip and I really liked it. I still own several of its bigger brothers. Very good amp!


----------



## BobG55

DJtheAudiophile said:


> Got this big and beautiful vintage beauty for $10. ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
> Sony - STR-6045 FM-Stereo/ FM-AM Receiver, circa 1971.


Great Deal !  Good on you.  Happy listening.


----------



## Lurker0918

SpeakerBox said:


> That said I just got a Fisher 400 and am in the process of restoring using the kit from Metalbone.  The documentation with this kit is exceptional!


Congrats!  That's a beautiful piece of gear!  Still using my dad's which he purchased when they first came out.  Had it recapped, but am still using all the original tubes.  Sounds so nice...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lurker0918 said:


> Congrats!  That's a beautiful piece of gear!  Still using my dad's which he purchased when they first came out.  Had it recapped, but am still using all the original tubes.  Sounds so nice...



It is beautiful and now that the Metalbone kit is installed it sounds beautiful too!  I could not believe the improvement in SQ after the mods via my HPs.  Just waiting now for a set of spade to banana adapters to be delivered and will be hooking it up to some LS3/5A clones.  The 400 is supposed to be a great match for these speakers.


----------



## Lurker0918

happy listening!  Those spade strips are really bizarre if you're not used to them.  I'm just using bare wire to hook them up for ease.  I'm guessing there is so much you can upgrade or do for better SQ, but I think it sounds great as is.


----------



## Nellie75 (Dec 5, 2018)

I have a Marantz 2245 that was recapped.  Sounds great, but my HE400i headphones (32ohm, 93db) into the headphone jack seem anemic to me.  I keep volume around 12 or 1 o’clock.  The bass is pretty weak.  I borrowed my friend HD650’s (300ohm, 103db) and they sound huge at 11 O’clock with thick punchy bass that the 400i cannot match.  These headphones are often said to be flat but they make my HE400i sound anemic.

What gives?


----------



## Wildcatsare1

I’m finding similar results with my Fisher 440-T, it’s awsom with my HD650, but not so much with the Abyss.


----------



## Nellie75

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’m finding similar results with my Fisher 440-T, it’s awsom with my HD650, but not so much with the Abyss.



What is the sensitivity and impedance?  I don’t know much about this stuff but apparently the ohms are only half the story.  My HE400i are only 32ohms yet they seem power starved.  HD650s are 300ohm.


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is in large part due to the requirements for maximum power transfer from amplifier to load.  For that to occur the output impedance of the amplifier must equal the load impedance. Headphone and output impedance varies quite a bit system to system, and thus is responsible for at least some of the variance in sound.


----------



## DJtheAudiophile

Marantz - 5030B


----------



## hemipowered007

Wildcatsare1 said:


> I’m finding similar results with my Fisher 440-T, it’s awsom with my HD650, but not so much with the Abyss.



Best to drive planars from speaker taps. Either building your own "resistor box" w an hp jack, or just terminating a cable to bare wire or banana plugs.  Some amps dont vary that heavily from jack out to speaker terminal out besides power output, others, have more than just resistors between jack and amp, for example a completely seperate crap amp board. The Fischer, if my research is correct, should just be an offput of the main amp, with a simple resistor board to lower the power output to the headphone jack. Maybe its just a synergy thing with the abyss? Or theres parts needing replacement on that headphone board?
The hd650 is pretty forgiving although ultimately a great hp. Just my thoughts. Planars though, are a different animal to drive for the most part, not sure how the abyss handles power as ive never been near one or read a whole lot about them,since theyre way out of my price range


----------



## Wildcatsare1

hemipowered007 said:


> Best to drive planars from speaker taps. Either building your own "resistor box" w an hp jack, or just terminating a cable to bare wire or banana plugs.  Some amps dont vary that heavily from jack out to speaker terminal out besides power output, others, have more than just resistors between jack and amp, for example a completely seperate crap amp board. The Fischer, if my research is correct, should just be an offput of the main amp, with a simple resistor board to lower the power output to the headphone jack. Maybe its just a synergy thing with the abyss? Or theres parts needing replacement on that headphone board?
> The hd650 is pretty forgiving although ultimately a great hp. Just my thoughts. Planars though, are a different animal to drive for the most part, not sure how the abyss handles power as ive never been near one or read a whole lot about them,since theyre way out of my price range



Thanks, I have a 4 pin balanced to speaker taps cable, trouble is the Fisher has small screws for taps, and mine is terminated with banana plugs.


----------



## BobG55 (Dec 21, 2018)

My new vintage amp addition, the Sansui AU-7900 w/ my vintage Pioneer PD-91 CD player.  On top of the amp JDS Labs Subjective3 & OL DAC.  Listening to Steely Dan's _"Two Against Nature" _ w/ Hifiman HE-500. 
_
***I wish the photo was clearer but I don't own a digital camera or mobile phone; photograph taken w/ my MacBook Pro camera***_

The amp was serviced three years ago by an audio engineer/ technician.  The capacitors were replaced and the rest of the amp was fully serviced where needed with best parts available according to the seller.  I took his word because he has over 60 audio sales with 100% positive feedback.

The sound is outstanding.

*Description* _*(from HifiEngine site/ manual library)*_

The Sansui AU-7900 (1976-77), is an integrated stereo amplifier giving a high power output of 80 watts per channel of clean, undistorted music reproduction: so accurate it becomes difficult to distinguish from the original live performance.

Features include:

NF-type phono equaliser: the deviation from the standard RIAA curve is only -± 0,3dB over the entire range. Superb preamp, superb powerful amplifier.

Tape play/dubbing switch, simultaneous connection of two stereo tape decks.

Triple Tone Control: bass, treble and midrange with selectable turnover frequencies.

Direct-coupled true complementary OCL output.

Dual power supply, triple power-circuit protection.

Specifications

Power output: 75 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

Frequency response: 5Hz to 40kHz

Total harmonic distortion: 0.1%

Damping factor: 80

Signal to noise ratio: 90dB (line)

Channel separation: 50dB (MM)

Dimensions: 430 x 132 x 340mm

Weight: 14.2kg


----------



## Oregonian (Dec 22, 2018)

Bob............sweet setup!  Have you thought about going direct to the speaker taps with your HE-500?  My HE-400 sounds incredible from the taps - much better than from the headphone plug, as did my HE-6 when I had it.


----------



## FastForward

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Thanks, I have a 4 pin balanced to speaker taps cable, trouble is the Fisher has small screws for taps, and mine is terminated with banana plugs.



I have a Sherwood tube amp that has the spade speaker taps. I bought some banana to spade adapters for $10 on Amazon that work great.


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> Bob............sweet setup!  Have you thought about going direct to the speaker taps with your HE-500?  My HE-400 sounds incredible from the taps - much better than from the headphone plug, as did my HE-6 when I had it.



Thanks Oregonian.  About the speaker taps, I've thought about that many times.  The fact is that not only am I not tech savvy, I'm also tech challenged with an inability to grasp that side of this hobby.  Same situation as with math back in my school days.  My brain just isn't _wired _that way (pun intended).


----------



## Monsterzero

Oregonian said:


> Bob............sweet setup!  Have you thought about going direct to the speaker taps with your HE-500?  My HE-400 sounds incredible from the taps - much better than from the headphone plug, as did my HE-6 when I had it.



I tried taps when I had my HE500 on my Sansui 881. It was perhaps a bit clearer in the upper mids,but other than that I didnt notice much difference. The HE6 is another story.


----------



## Monsterzero

Heres a question for the tech savvy members:

Can someone explain to me the reason why I get great slam out of 250-600 ohm headphones via vintage gear vs. a dedicated HP amp,like for example the Gilmore Lite Mk 2?

Is it the voltage? Current? Damping factor? None of the above?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Up and running....


----------



## Monsterzero

SpeakerBox said:


> Up and running....



Lovely! Is that the tube Fisher,and if so how does it sound vs. SS vintage or tube headphone amps for headphones?


----------



## SpeakerBox

I just got running after doing all the updates (Metalbone), but it sounds wonderful!  Lush and full would be a good words to describe it via both my HPs and LS3/5As.  I do expect it to improve further with burn in.  Many capacitors were replaced.


----------



## SpeakerBox

And yes, tube Fisher 400 receiver.


----------



## kid vic

Oregonian said:


> Bob............sweet setup!  Have you thought about going direct to the speaker taps with your HE-500?  My HE-400 sounds incredible from the taps - much better than from the headphone plug, as did my HE-6 when I had it.



I love the HE500's off the taps!



BobG55 said:


> Thanks Oregonian.  About the speaker taps, I've thought about that many times.  The fact is that not only am I not tech savvy, I'm also tech challenged with an inability to grasp that side of this hobby.  Same situation as with math back in my school days.  My brain just isn't _wired _that way (pun intended).



Remember about a month ago when we were talking about the custom cable I needed? That was a speaker to 4 pin XLR cable, I got one built at a local computer repair shop .$20 in labour and about $15 in parts. You can get a good xlr cable off of eBay too actually.


----------



## yates7592

Bob, that looks sweet. How does your new AU-7900 compare to your old AU-719? I'm totally loving my AU-717. Had it re-capped and serviced it's like new now and sounds incredible.


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> Up and running....



Good job SpeakerBox.  Looks great & glad you're enjoying it.  Just in time for some Christmas time relaxing.


----------



## BobG55

yates7592 said:


> Bob, that looks sweet. How does your new AU-7900 compare to your old AU-719? I'm totally loving my AU-717. Had it re-capped and serviced it's like new now and sounds incredible.



Hi Yates7592, thank you.  Very happy for you that you're enjoying your re-capped & serviced AU-717.  It's a very well reputed vintage amp.  I prefer the AU-7900 to the AU-719.  The AU-719 sounded good but was _analytical _& _bright _compared to this one.  The AU-7900 sounds more lush but remains quite detailed & definitely more dynamic also.  Great sound attributes when combined together.

Merry Christmas.


----------



## BobG55

kid vic said:


> I love the HE500's off the taps!
> 
> 
> 
> Remember about a month ago when we were talking about the custom cable I needed? That was a speaker to 4 pin XLR cable, I got one built at a local computer repair shop .$20 in labour and about $15 in parts. You can get a good xlr cable off of eBay too actually.



Thanks kid vic. I'll look into it.


----------



## richard51

My he-400 sound was a bit clearer from the speaker taps with the Sansui-7700,but it was more confortable for the volume control level from the headphone out... And I think the sound from the headphone out was the same organic fluidity than from the speakers out.... For reason of confort i reverse to the headphone out....The 7900 is a marvel piece and the headphone out was of high quality,modulo some resistance ,the same sound....Congratulations Bobg55....Merry Christmas to all !


----------



## Nellie75

Sold my he400’s on eBay and got some Hd650’s. Problem solved.


----------



## Monsterzero

Monsterzero said:


> Heres a question for the tech savvy members:
> 
> Can someone explain to me the reason why I get great slam out of 250-600 ohm headphones via vintage gear vs. a dedicated HP amp,like for example the Gilmore Lite Mk 2?
> 
> Is it the voltage? Current? Damping factor? None of the above?



Anyone care to tackle this question?


----------



## SpeakerBox (Dec 24, 2018)

I think it is because most vintage HP outs have 200 or 300 ohm dropping resistors in the circuit thus allowing us to approach maximum power transfer with higher impedance HPs (i.e. rout == rload).  On the other hand a lower impedance HP probably won't sound as good on vintage gear.  I have found that to be the case with my systems.

Of course it is not just the dropping resistor that impacts this as the output resistance of the amplifier itself must be included also.  Ideally what you want is the amplifier resistance + dropping resistance to roughly equal the HP impedance.  A case where this shows up is on my HK330A vs. the Fisher 400.  Both receivers have 330 ohm dropping resistors.  My 300 ohm HD600s sound like crap on the HK (lifeless) and off the charts good on the Fisher.


----------



## Nellie75 (Dec 24, 2018)

SpeakerBox said:


> I think it is because most vintage HP outs have 200 or 300 ohm dropping resistors in the circuit thus allowing us to approach maximum power transfer with higher impedance HPs (i.e. rout == rload).  On the other hand a lower impedance HP probably won't sound as good on vintage gear.  I have found that to be the case with my systems.
> 
> Of course it is not just the dropping resistor that impacts this as the output resistance of the amplifier itself must be included also.  Ideally what you want is the amplifier resistance + dropping resistance to roughly equal the HP impedance.  A case where this shows up is on my HK330A vs. the Fisher 400.  Both receivers have 330 ohm dropping resistors.  My 300 ohm HD600s sound like crap on the HK (lifeless) and off the charts good on the Fisher.



So, is there a recipe for finding your receivers overall output?  Is it just the headphone resistance that you look at or also the sensitivity?


----------



## KG Jag

In the era of the 70's-ish vintage receivers most of the headphones where about 200 to 300 Ohms.  The early (open & light of weight) Sennheisers were an exception.


----------



## Monsterzero

KG Jag said:


> In the era of the 70's-ish vintage receivers most of the headphones where about 200 to 300 Ohms.  The early (open & light of weight) Sennheisers were an exception.



Yeah,I get that. My sextetts are 600ohms and sound better thru my vintage receivers vs. my GOTL. 
Some Senn models were 2000 ohms!

Im asking for specific reasons. Ive done a few reviews recently of ZMF dynamic headphones,all of which sound really good thru my old gear. A lot of folks dont want to dive into tubes,and know noting about vintage receivers,which I discuss in some of my reviews. Ive had a few requests to do a video about the receivers from the '70s,and I'd like to get facts to back up my talking points when I get around to doing that video.


----------



## BobG55

*TO ALL MEMBERS OF THIS GREAT THREAD : *

*MERRY CHRISTMAS  AND HAPPY LISTENING  *


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nellie75 said:


> So, is there a recipe for finding your receivers overall output?  Is it just the headphone resistance that you look at or also the sensitivity?



I would not feel comfortable giving a formula.  For one thing it is not always easy to come by the actual output resistance of the amplifier itself.  Add to that that when the outputs are capacitor coupled that number will vary with frequency.  Just a general guideline  that in *most* cases 200 to 300 ohm HPs will perform better with vintage gear.


----------



## SpeakerBox

And along with BobG55, I also wish you all a very Merry Christmas!


----------



## Byronb

Merry Christmas everyone.


----------



## Oregonian

BobG55 said:


> Thanks Oregonian.  About the speaker taps, I've thought about that many times.  The fact is that not only am I not tech savvy, I'm also tech challenged with an inability to grasp that side of this hobby.  Same situation as with math back in my school days.  My brain just isn't _wired _that way (pun intended).



Overall, it's pretty simple as long as you have the XLR connection on the headphones as most early HiFiMan phones came with.  Many HFM headphones come with two hookups - the XLR combo cable and the 1/4" direct to headphone out cable.  You then get a XLR to speaker connection cable (Ted at Headphone Lounge made me two at a great cost - think it was less than $30 each).  He will mark the connections that plug into your speaker outputs on the Sansui - right positive, right negative, left positive, left negative - and you plug them in as though you were hooking up speakers.  Plug your headphone XLR into the adapter Ted made for you and you are off and running direct to the speaker taps.  

I'll take a picture of the custom connector he made me tonight if you want and post it for you to see how simple it really is.  Nothing to fear on doing this.  It make such a dramatic difference to the performance of my HE-400's that it change my mind on getting rid of them into thinking they are almost as good as my Pioneer SE Master 1 headphones - a $200 headphone (mind you I've modded the HE-400 with every conceivable mod - Vegan pads, blutack mod, open grill mod, Lohb headband strap) that is so close to a $2000 headphone that if I were pressed for cash I wouldn't feel a great loss stepping "down" to the HE-400 as my one and only open back headphone.  It sounds that good to me.  I run the HE-400's out of my vintage Pioneer SA-608 amp in my family room system.


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> Overall, it's pretty simple as long as you have the XLR connection on the headphones as most early HiFiMan phones came with.  Many HFM headphones come with two hookups - the XLR combo cable and the 1/4" direct to headphone out cable.  You then get a XLR to speaker connection cable (Ted at Headphone Lounge made me two at a great cost - think it was less than $30 each).  He will mark the connections that plug into your speaker outputs on the Sansui - right positive, right negative, left positive, left negative - and you plug them in as though you were hooking up speakers.  Plug your headphone XLR into the adapter Ted made for you and you are off and running direct to the speaker taps.
> 
> I'll take a picture of the custom connector he made me tonight if you want and post it for you to see how simple it really is.  Nothing to fear on doing this.  It make such a dramatic difference to the performance of my HE-400's that it change my mind on getting rid of them into thinking they are almost as good as my Pioneer SE Master 1 headphones - a $200 headphone (mind you I've modded the HE-400 with every conceivable mod - Vegan pads, blutack mod, open grill mod, Lohb headband strap) that is so close to a $2000 headphone that if I were pressed for cash I wouldn't feel a great loss stepping "down" to the HE-400 as my one and only open back headphone.  It sounds that good to me.  I run the HE-400's out of my vintage Pioneer SA-608 amp in my family room system.


Thanks for this Oregonian.  Yes, go ahead and post a picture as you offered to.  Much appreciated.


----------



## Oregonian

BobG55 said:


> Thanks for this Oregonian.  Yes, go ahead and post a picture as you offered to.  Much appreciated.



Here ya go.............


----------



## richie60

I own a Bottlehead Crack which I do use with either the Beyer DT880 600OHM or Sennheiser HD600.  I prefer the Sennheisers with my Audiolab 8000LX (think 8000A without tone controls).  They sound great with this amp.

The main issue I have is that they sound too loud on minimal volume.  Been thinking about acquiring a vintage amp of some description, would it be a better match?


----------



## Monsterzero

Both the Beyer and Senns are pretty sensitive,and are pretty easy to drive,relatively speaking.
You might consider tubes with less gain.

If you do decide to go with a receiver,both will sound great,but you wont have a tremendous amount of volume wiggle room on the old gear either.
Even my sextetts,which are 600ohms and 93db sensitivity get blasting at around 9:00 on the volume dial of my receivers.


----------



## richie60

Thanks.  Seems it's not really worth changing then.


----------



## yates7592

In my limited experience with vintage gear, use of the mute button (-20db) if you have one makes a massive difference with headphones. Allows use of say 3/4 of the volume pot and fine adjustments therein.


----------



## Monsterzero

That never occurred to me. Nice one.
The lack of wiggle room doesnt bother me TBH,but thats a good work around.


----------



## SpeakerBox

yates7592 said:


> In my limited experience with vintage gear, use of the mute button (-20db) if you have one makes a massive difference with headphones. Allows use of say 3/4 of the volume pot and fine adjustments therein.



Use that on the SX-1250 all the time.


----------



## richard51 (Dec 31, 2018)

With my sansui au 7700 I use most of the time  not only the (loudness) muting button(15 or 30 db choices) with the headphone for a better  volume control but the very useful high and low boost button for speakers listening in nearfield listening.... I will not speak of the fine tone controls for a fine adjustment of our many headphones and speakers. Only that possibilities among many others show us the high value of some vintage gear... I will never look back to some modern amplifier for headphone or speakers... Whose modern amp will do these many functions with the same astounding quality at a relatively low cost?  A name please and a price?


----------



## yates7592

If you mean the "loudness" button, yes that can be amazing for both speakers and cans for low volume listening. Kind of addictive, and I have to make myself switch it off for normal levels.


----------



## BobG55

yates7592 said:


> In my limited experience with vintage gear, use of the mute button (-20db) if you have one makes a massive difference with headphones. Allows use of say 3/4 of the volume pot and fine adjustments therein.



My Sansui AU-7900 has -15dB & -30dB.  I have it have -15dB.


----------



## Oregonian

Got my Marantz 2285B back from servicing - tuner alignment, bias adjustment, LED lights installed...............cleaned, etc.  Sounds amazing..............love that it has bass, treble AND midrange tone adjustment controls.   A beautiful unit I got from a co-worker who was moving cross country and wanted someone to take it off his hands.


----------



## KG Jag

Sweet piece--wish I had a friend like that!


----------



## Byronb

Beautiful!!


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> Got my Marantz 2285B back from servicing - tuner alignment, bias adjustment, LED lights installed...............cleaned, etc.  Sounds amazing..............love that it has bass, treble AND midrange tone adjustment controls.   A beautiful unit I got from a co-worker who was moving cross country and wanted someone to take it off his hands.



One word : _*BEAUTY !  *_Congratulations Oregonian, I'm also a big fan of sound adjustment controls.  The main reason being, all recordings are different & some are somewhat poorly produced.  Sound adjustment controls make the music more enjoyable under those circumstances.  For me anyways.  

Nice way to start the New Year.


----------



## richard51

Oregonian said:


> Got my Marantz 2285B back from servicing - tuner alignment, bias adjustment, LED lights installed...............cleaned, etc.  Sounds amazing..............love that it has bass, treble AND midrange tone adjustment controls.   A beautiful unit I got from a co-worker who was moving cross country and wanted someone to take it off his hands.



I add my congratulations and I wish you Oregonian the best year of your life...

For the Marantz I remember these verse: "A thing of beauty is a joy forever"


----------



## PhoenixG

Oregonian said:


> Got my Marantz 2285B back from servicing - tuner alignment, bias adjustment, LED lights installed...............cleaned, etc.  Sounds amazing..............love that it has bass, treble AND midrange tone adjustment controls.   A beautiful unit I got from a co-worker who was moving cross country and wanted someone to take it off his hands.


I'm a sucker for a blue meter! Looks great!


----------



## Wildcatsare1

Hi Guys, I think I’m going to sell my Fischer T-440, it’s just a bit too big for my bedroom nook. It works great, the previous owner had LEDs installed, sounds wonderful via the headphone jack or speaker taps.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Wildcatsare1 said:


> Hi Guys, I think I’m going to sell my Fischer T-440, it’s just a bit too big for my bedroom nook. It works great, the previous owner had LEDs installed, sounds wonderful via the headphone jack or speaker taps.



That old Fisher gear is good stuff and hard to come by.  Might want to hold on to it?


----------



## Lurker0918

SpeakerBox said:


> I think it is because most vintage HP outs have 200 or 300 ohm dropping resistors in the circuit thus allowing us to approach maximum power transfer with higher impedance HPs (i.e. rout == rload).  On the other hand a lower impedance HP probably won't sound as good on vintage gear.  I have found that to be the case with my systems.
> 
> Of course it is not just the dropping resistor that impacts this as the output resistance of the amplifier itself must be included also.  Ideally what you want is the amplifier resistance + dropping resistance to roughly equal the HP impedance.  A case where this shows up is on my HK330A vs. the Fisher 400.  Both receivers have 330 ohm dropping resistors.  My 300 ohm HD600s sound like crap on the HK (lifeless) and off the charts good on the Fisher.



I've tried my Grado 80i, RS1i, Hifiman HEXv1 and the HD800 and I didn't think the headphone stage was viable for any of them (I didn't expect it to).  I'm guessing they're not supposed to?


----------



## BobG55

*Excellent & very instructive tube about an vintage audio repair expert from New York's East Side.  *



Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac
Published on Jan 13, 2019
https://www.blackiepagano.com


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lurker0918 said:


> I've tried my Grado 80i, RS1i, Hifiman HEXv1 and the HD800 and I didn't think the headphone stage was viable for any of them (I didn't expect it to).  I'm guessing they're not supposed to?



What HP stage did you try them on?


----------



## richie60

Not quite vintage but this amp from Audiolab, the 8000 LX sounds fantastic with my Sennheiser HD600.  Even though I also use the Bottlehead Crack, I still prefer this amp with the Sennheisers.  The amp drives them with authority and makes them sound clean and detailed.

I am building a vintage system for the lounge primarily for headphone use and have just snagged a Trio Kenwood KA-5700 amp.  Hope it sounds as good as the Audiolab.


----------



## Oregonian

richie60 said:


> Not quite vintage but this amp from Audiolab, the 8000 LX sounds fantastic with my Sennheiser HD600.  Even though I also use the Bottlehead Crack, I still prefer this amp with the Sennheisers.  The amp drives them with authority and makes them sound clean and detailed.
> 
> I am building a vintage system for the lounge primarily for headphone use and have just snagged a Trio *Kenwood KA-5700* amp.  Hope it sounds as good as the Audiolab.



My first vintage amp was the KA-5700.................still have it in my home office and still love it.  Had blue LED's put in it.....................great little amp!


----------



## Lurker0918

SpeakerBox said:


> What HP stage did you try them on?



Sorry if I'm not understanding, but one of my channels is out on the Aux connections, so I use the Tape Monitor setting to hook up sources, except for phono.  Speaker setting off, and the loudness function off.  I need to use more gain with the Tape Monitor (until I get the AUX fixed), but it seems underwhelming to me compared to my dedicated headphone amp.  Lovely with speakers though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lurker0918 said:


> Sorry if I'm not understanding, but one of my channels is out on the Aux connections, so I use the Tape Monitor setting to hook up sources, except for phono.  Speaker setting off, and the loudness function off.  I need to use more gain with the Tape Monitor (until I get the AUX fixed), but it seems underwhelming to me compared to my dedicated headphone amp.  Lovely with speakers though.



I was asking what vintage receiver model you have been listening to your HPs with (via the HP jack or otherwise)?


----------



## richie60

My 'new' old amp has arrived today.  Couldn't wait to see how it sounds with my headphones.  No doubt this will need a good service but first impressions are a slightly warm and smooth sound, detailed, powerful, good bass.

There is a channel imbalance which seems to 'float' left then right on it's own, maybe down to a dodgy cap, not sure.  

Will do some further listening and comparisons with my BH Crack and see what I prefer.


----------



## richie60

I must add, that if I decide to use the Trio amp over the Crack, I'll have to buy some rca attenuators as the digital source can be too loud on some material.


----------



## Oregonian

richie60 said:


> I must add, that if I decide to use the Trio amp over the Crack, I'll have to buy some rca attenuators as the digital source can be too loud on some material.



Or add a preamp?


----------



## richie60

Oregonian said:


> Or add a preamp?



Won't go with the pre as I want to keep the looks clean.  Good idea though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

A channel imbalance can also be a dirty pot.  I always have a can of DeoxIt on hand for just such an occasion!


----------



## Oregonian

A little eye candy for your Saturday..............just picked up my son in law's Pioneer PL-41 turntable (in 1973 his dad was the original purchaser of this) from my local vintage guru - it needed set up properly and a new belt.  Hooked it up to my Marantz 2285B, put on Pink Floyd's DSOTM 180G new pressing to test it out with my Denon MD2000 headphones.............awesome sound!


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> A little eye candy for your Saturday..............just picked up my son in law's Pioneer PL-41 turntable (in 1973 his dad was the original purchaser of this) from my local vintage guru - it needed set up properly and a new belt.  Hooked it up to my Marantz 2285B, put on Pink Floyd's DSOTM 180G new pressing to test it out with my Denon MD2000 headphones.............awesome sound!



Beauty !


----------



## KG Jag

Great display.  My guess is that you stacked them just for the photo.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice Oregonian.  Love those old Pioneer tables!https://www.head-fi.org/members/oregonian.292363/


----------



## Oregonian (Jan 20, 2019)

KG Jag said:


> Great display.  My guess is that you stacked them just for the photo.



Yessir...............just having picked up the turntable from the local guru, wanted to make sure it played as well as he said it did.  It did.  That stack is going to my son in laws house (unstacked  ) to match up with a sweet pair of Yamaha speakers for his home gym.  Have some sorbothane pads to put under the TT as well, and it's going on an Audio Advisor rack that was a great deal. 

That's two daughters/sons in law I've converted to a "vintage disciple"............... My other daughter/son in law got my Hitachi SR-304 hooked up to a pair of JBL 4311 speakers fed via a Harmon Kardon Bluetooth hookup in their garage gym. No turntable for them.............yet.


----------



## KG Jag

I assume you're talking about the $99.95 Vulcan rack.  That is an excellent value.


----------



## Oregonian

KG Jag said:


> I assume you're talking about the $99.95 Vulcan rack.  That is an excellent value.



Yes, that's the one...............


----------



## Lurker0918

SpeakerBox said:


> I was asking what vintage receiver model you have been listening to your HPs with (via the HP jack or otherwise)?


Ah sorry, I was using a Fisher 400.  Still original tubes I believe, except one of the 7868's which has a "chimney" while the other three are smooth tops.  Recapped but nothing else done.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I guess I'm surprised that none of the HPs you listed sound good on a Fisher 400 (although I will admit to not ever owning or hearing those particular phones).  So far I have tried Sennheiser 595s and HD600s with very good results on my 400.  Those two units both sound fantastic on my SX1250 also.


----------



## Keno18

After finding this thread I dusted off my old Proton 930 and Magnivox CDB 650 that I haven't listened to in what must be 20 years. Kinda blew my Schiit Vali 2 and ifi nano bl out of the water.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Jan 23, 2019)

No surprise.  My Pioneer SX-1250, Fisher 400 Receiver, and HK330A absolutely slap the HP out on my $2000 Marantz 7010 AVR.  They don't make them like they used to.  Once bitten by the vintage bug it is hard to go back.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Had to sell my SA-5760 because of college funds. My buyer said that I sent him damaged goods and got ebay involved. I don't know if it got damaged in transit but I feel like the guy literally destroyed the receiver to try and claim a refund. I got the receiver back yesterday in this condition. I was able to resolve things with ebay but I now have a 60 pound hunk of metal and I don't know what do do.


For those who have experience, is this salvageable?  I turned it on and it seems to be working but I don't really know if it's even worth putting effort in into. I have no money to sink into this......


----------



## SpeakerBox

If it is electrically functional I would not junk it.  Any vintage 165WPC receiver is probably worth fixing.  Hard to tell from pics exactly what would need to be done though.


----------



## PhoenixG

iliketowrap19 said:


> Had to sell my SA-5760 because of college funds. My buyer said that I sent him damaged goods and got ebay involved. I don't know if it got damaged in transit but I feel like the guy literally destroyed the receiver to try and claim a refund. I got the receiver back yesterday in this condition. I was able to resolve things with ebay but I now have a 60 pound hunk of metal and I don't know what do do.
> 
> 
> For those who have experience, is this salvageable?  I turned it on and it seems to be working but I don't really know if it's even worth putting effort in into. I have no money to sink into this......


That sucks man. It looks like the integrated wood case broke, but I don't see any bent metal. It might not be too hard to repair the case. If it works otherwise, it might be worthwhile to try a local sale on craigslist after you make the repairs. Just make sure you're open with the buyer that the case has been repaired.


----------



## iliketowrap19

SpeakerBox said:


> If it is electrically functional I would not junk it.  Any vintage 165WPC receiver is probably worth fixing.  Hard to tell from pics exactly what would need to be done though.



I haven't tested it. I'll test it once i get back home but I think that it's still functional it's just what to do without the case. I don't have woodworking skills nor am I a good judge of functionality.


----------



## iliketowrap19

PhoenixG said:


> That sucks man. It looks like the integrated wood case broke, but I don't see any bent metal. It might not be too hard to repair the case. If it works otherwise, it might be worthwhile to try a local sale on craigslist after you make the repairs. Just make sure you're open with the buyer that the case has been repaired.



How much would repair cost?


----------



## Van Isle

No one can give you an exact cost to repair it without knowing if it works or not ... and then doubtful without being able to go over it in person. Hopefully it works ... or works enough that there's hope!

Was there evidence that the package had been damaged during shipping?  What about a claim on the carrier? Was there an issue with the way you packed it? Or do you suspect the buyer just swapped your good case with his broken crap and then demanded a refund? (I have 'tamperproof' security labels for those items I sell and ship ... you break the seal ... you own it!).

In terms of the case, there should be furniture repair, woodworking, cabinet makers, etc. that could either fix (and re-veneer) or replace the cabinet. 

 But given what these go for and the fact you don't have any funds to put towards it, I'd put it up on your local craigslist and see who bites. One just sold on eBay, needing work, for $350 and one sold working for $924 (although again sold as 'for parts or repair' to, as I understand it, defeat any claims for dead-on-arrival).

Now a fellow that I know just had a quote from a very well respected local repair guy to do a full recap and fix a few minor issues with a receiver pretty much in the same class as the 5760. That was $350. I recently had the same guy do a re-cap on one of my early Sansui amps ... obviously not as involved ... and it was $200.

I would proceed from the point of view of pricing it so someone who purchases it can spend $400 or so having electronics repairs / re-cap done and a bit to cover the case and still be confident they could get their money back. What will probably happen is someone will buy it who can do the work themselves, so then they are just looking at parts cost.


----------



## KG Jag

Normally the buyer would take pictures of damaged shipping boxing and contents the day that it was receved.  

Something like this requires careful double boxing and packing.


----------



## iliketowrap19

I think I'll just keep it. I'll look into furniture repair like you said. Still haven't got a chance to test it out. If the furniture thing doesn't work out, I'll just put it up for sale.


----------



## Mercuttio

iliketowrap19 said:


> I think I'll just keep it. I'll look into furniture repair like you said. Still haven't got a chance to test it out. If the furniture thing doesn't work out, I'll just put it up for sale.



Don’t junk it! That’s a great amplifier and the insides look pretty awesome. I’m sure you can get the exterior repaired, and honestly I don’t feel like that would damage the value so considerably for a genuinely collectible receiver. 

Side note: I have been using a JBL SA 660 with a pair of HD650s for a bit and I’m pretty impressed with the headphone jack, especially given the 1970s build date. Anybody ever heard this particular unit or the SA600?


----------



## UntilThen

Just bought a Sansui AU-505 integrated amp yesterday. Never expected it to sound so good driving my HD800 and LCD-2f. I'm loving it.


----------



## Oregonian

Welcome to the brotherhood UntilThen - the brotherhood of the lucky few to know what we have in the vintage realm.


----------



## Monsterzero

For whatever reason I havent shared this video I did recently here...better late than never.


----------



## richard51

Vintage is victory!


----------



## UntilThen

Oregonian said:


> Welcome to the brotherhood UntilThen - the brotherhood of the lucky few to know what we have in the vintage realm.



Thank You !

Now to share pictures of my Sansui AU-505 driving my floorstanders Axis LS88 to astonishing levels. How powerful is this amp? It sounds absolutely beautiful and loud at only 10 o'clock.

The speakers

 

The amp in the bottom of the rack. The Redgum Rgi120ENR amp has to make way for it for now.


----------



## richard51

Perhaps this article would be of interest to all but especially here in this thread...

https://www.cnet.com/news/this-1970...istening-to-today/#ftag=rss.audiophiliac.ftag


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> Perhaps this article would be of interest to all but especially here in this thread...
> 
> https://www.cnet.com/news/this-1970...istening-to-today/#ftag=rss.audiophiliac.ftag



Good article and going with what I hear from the Sansui vintage amp, I agree with the warmth and analogue sound description. There's still superb clarity, 3D image. I'm hooked on the Sansui sound so much so I bought another Sansui amp AU7700 the next day, vintage 1975 with more power at 54w per channel and as typical of that era gear, lots of controls, inputs, 2 phono inputs !!!

Here's a picture - will be getting the amp in a week's time. I'm going to use the Sansui AU-505 for headphones, which sounds superb and I'll use the AU7700 to drive my speakers.

The important thing with vintage gear is to have a good technician to recap and restored the gear and I've met someone here who's been servicing Sansui gear for years.


----------



## UntilThen

Ha @richard51 , right after I made the above post, I saw in your signature that you have a Sansui AU-7700. 

Please share your experience with this amp.


----------



## UntilThen

Skylab said:


> This is fast becoming of of my favorite threads on head-fi



It is fast becoming my favourite thread too.


----------



## UntilThen

Another shot of the Sansui AU-505. It's making my HD800 sound ridiculously good. I may not need the DNA Stratus now.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 3, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Ha @richard51 , right after I made the above post, I saw in your signature that you have a Sansui AU-7700.
> 
> Please share your experience with this amp.



My experience is the same experience I share with people here who owns vintage gear : No going back...If I had money I would buy 5 thousand dollars amplifier, I know which; but I would never sell my Sansuis, I own 2...The AU-7700 and the mighty Sansui AU-X701 Au-Alpha 607i... The 2 are marvellous, the X-701 more refined, the AU 7700 more organic and warm,but for the moment it is more useful to me to use the 7700 and with my speakers it is love at first sight between them...

In the year to come I will use the 7700  and the X701 for speakers and headphone specialisation... It is IMPOSSIBLE to beat them on all count,even if you pay a fortune... No modern amplifier can make with flexibility all the jobs that these 2 survivors of the war between companies  in the interval 1975 and past 80 are able to achieve with a supreme sound quality of their own ... The sound with a good source is natural,holographic, without apparent defect on any count...Nothing is perfect except my dogs,my wife and  some Sansui in this world 

I cannot explain all the qualities of this Sansui, top of the line Sansui in 1975, better than this guy that wrote the article that push me toward this model:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-sansui-au-7700-amplifier

I came to this thread here because of Oregonian, that push me toward vintage, the rest is history...It is the most appealing thread of head-fi for sure for me, people here sound like family when they speaks...


----------



## Monsterzero

richard51 said:


> Nothing is perfect except my dogs,my wife and some Sansui in this world



+1


----------



## SpeakerBox

UntilThen said:


> It is fast becoming my favorite thread too.



I would say this is pretty much my favorite thread anywhere.


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> My experience is the same experience I share with people here who owns vintage gear : No going back...If I had money I would buy 5 thousand dollars amplifier, I know which; but I would never sell my Sansuis, I own 2...The AU-7700 and the mighty Sansui AU-X701 Au-Alpha 607i... The 2 are marvellous, the X-701 more refined, the AU 7700 more organic and warm,but for the moment it is more useful to me to use the 7700 and with my speakers it is love at first sight between them...



Thanks for the feedback. I shall look forward to getting the AU 7700.

When I went to pick up the AU 505, the owner has in his music room like 6 or 7 Sansui amps, including the alpha series. Wish I had stayed to listen to some of them.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 3, 2019)

With one good Sansui you need another  amplifier like a dog need 2 heads... 
I owns 2 Sansui, then 2 version  of the same head...


----------



## UntilThen

He loves his Sansui(s) amp and is no doubt a collector. Besides he's a specialist technician in restoring Sansui amps. I am glad to have met him for future restorations.

This article gives me an idea of the Sansui model range. I know why the AU-505 appeal so much to me now. The article has this to say about the AU 222. 333. 555. 666. 777, 888 and 999. 'The sound from this series is very close to that of tube amps'. AU-505 is very similar to the AU 555.
http://www.sansui.us/Amplifiers.htm


----------



## richard51 (Mar 4, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> He loves his Sansui(s) amp and is no doubt a collector. Besides he's a specialist technician in restoring Sansui amps. I am glad to have met him for future restorations.
> 
> This article gives me an idea of the Sansui model range. I know why the AU-505 appeal so much to me now. The article has this to say about the AU 222. 333. 555. 666. 777, 888 and 999. 'The sound from this series is very close to that of tube amps'. AU-505 is very similar to the AU 555.
> http://www.sansui.us/Amplifiers.htm



I dont know first hand because I had not listen to this 3 digits series nor to the Au-505... But the x series is less tubelike and seems  more refine than organic, and my Au 7700 compared to the x series is more tubelike and organic sounding,then I deduce that my Au 7700 is less tubelike than the Au-505 or AU-555, probably at mid-road between the 3 digits series and the alpha series...This is the reason why the AU-7700 is so good between the 2 series and why I love him so much, the best of 2 worlds of sound, not the perfection at all, only the living presence of the music in his own translation of the sound...There is 9 reviews with raving praise  in Hifiengine,mine included, this is the reason...


----------



## Oregonian

Monsterzero said:


> For whatever reason I havent shared this video I did recently here...better late than never.




Thanks for sharing - awesome work on this!  

One comment - though my Denon headphones (both a LA7000 and MD2000) are 25 ohm they sound fantastic out of vintage gear, as does my Pioneer SE Master 1 @ 45 ohm.  Most of my vintage gear is Pioneer from the 70's - Spec 1 pre/Spec 2 amp, SA8800, SA9900, SA608, SA7500II.  

You guys have me intrigued by hearing a Sansui unit.................I've got a Kenwood amp, Sony amp, Fisher, Marantz unit but not yet have I found a Sansui with my name on it.  Hmmm.........

By the way, this IS my favorite thread on any website anywhere................


----------



## Monsterzero

Oregonian said:


> Thanks for sharing - awesome work on this!



Thank you.



Oregonian said:


> One comment - though my Denon headphones (both a LA7000 and MD2000) are 25 ohm they sound fantastic out of vintage gear, as does my Pioneer SE Master 1 @ 45 ohm.



Yeah,I mean I have had mild success with low ohm headphones,and the bass can sound huge,but at the expense of tightness for my collection.



Oregonian said:


> You guys have me intrigued by hearing a Sansui unit.................I've got a Kenwood amp, Sony amp, Fisher, Marantz unit but not yet have I found a Sansui with my name on it. Hmmm.....



Apparently the Eight Deluxe is one of the very highest regarded Sansui receivers ever made. Ive not heard one personally,as they are more $$$ than I can currently afford. My 881 is awesome as well.


----------



## UntilThen

Yggdrasil > Sansui AU-505 > HD800, I've been enthralled by this setup for several days. I feel the chills listening to 'Brothers In Arms' by Dire Straits now. Bass goes so low and deep and the headphone sound like speakers.


----------



## atarione

wife is working late.. So I have the speakers going  TA-E77ESD> TA-N77ES> Yamaha NS-344 10" 3ways.. listening to some "bowling for soup" rockin' out..


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice looking equipment, atarione!  I finally took to moving all my stuff into my basement man cave so I could crank it whenever I wanted.   Otherwise I was dancing around my wife all the time.


----------



## denox (Mar 8, 2019)

Here is my Sansui AU-7500 and Pioneer SA-8100, I need to decide which one will go as I have limited space. As for sound, I really like the sound of 8100 but I like the look of 7500 (sound great too) decision decision....
I will give proper a last ear time tomorrow and will decide. Inputs are welcomed.


----------



## SpeakerBox

As a Pioneer fan boy, I know which one I would keep


----------



## Oregonian

SpeakerBox said:


> As a Pioneer fan boy, I know which one I would keep



Ditto...............


----------



## denox

SpeakerBox said:


> As a Pioneer fan boy, I know which one I would keep




Haha I will give another round tomorrow.


----------



## kid vic

I'm sure there is some furniture or a child you can get rid of first




denox said:


> Here is my Sansui AU-7500 and Pioneer SA-8100, I need to decide which one will go as I have limited space. As for sound, I really like the sound of 8100 but I like the look of 7500 (sound great too) decision decision....
> I will give proper a last ear time tomorrow and will decide. Inputs are welcomed.


----------



## richard51

I am too partial for the Sansui to give an advice.... Oups!


----------



## mark-g

I've got the 7100 which I fully recapped a few years back. Great dependable unit but for me it lacks the visual drama of a receiver (I have a SX780) or my later SA8800. Still I don't think I would ever sell it unless I had a SA8100 or higher to replace it with. I'm sure you can hang onto it! 



denox said:


> Here is my Sansui AU-7500 and Pioneer SA-8100, I need to decide which one will go as I have limited space. As for sound, I really like the sound of 8100 but I like the look of 7500 (sound great too) decision decision....
> I will give proper a last ear time tomorrow and will decide. Inputs are welcomed.


----------



## UntilThen

Both nice amps. You should keep it.

My Sansui AU-7700 should be here on Monday. Really looking forward to it. Meanwhile the Sansui AU-505 is so good with my headphones, I'm still amazed at it after one week of listening.


----------



## denox

UntilThen said:


> Both nice amps. You should keep it.
> 
> My Sansui AU-7700 should be here on Monday. Really looking forward to it. Meanwhile the Sansui AU-505 is so good with my headphones, I'm still amazed at it after one week of listening.



7700 and 7900 are on my shortlist of Sansui integrated need to be checked. I am very interested on your take between both 505 and 7700, keep hearing 505 is a very good little integrated.
Someone offered me 505 recapped at a really good price


----------



## UntilThen

Haven't powered up the La Figaro 339 for a while so it's now next to the Sansui AU-505 for a direct comparison. Tubes on the 339 were the Mullard EF86 and Svetlana 6H13C. I could have use my GEC 6as7g for power tubes but I'm done with swapping tubes. Done too much of that.

The real surprise here is I prefer the sound of the Sansui over the La Figaro. It's more open from mids to the top end and the 505 has a very nice deep bass that is not too pronounced. La Figaro on the other hand sounded more focused (close in) in the mids and have a 'thinner' sound compared to the Sansui. Which is a surprise because before the Sansui arrived, I had always thought that the LF 339 sounded wide and open.

I find the Sansui AU-505 more 'musical' and prefer listening to it. At this stage of my head-fi journey, I've heard and owned some great gear in the Glenn OTL, Woo Audio WA5LE, Schiit Ragnarok, Feliks Audio Euforia and the La Figaro 339. However this recapped $350 Sansui AU-505 is a little 'gem' that has me listening to all my music again all week. When it's daylight, it will go out to the lounge for me to try it out with the big speakers again.

So @denox, I do like the Sansui AU-505 very much and it's a tiny fraction of a cost compared to the other amps I've tried (and that includes the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP - owned this in the past).


----------



## denox

Thanks for your input. 
I did another another ear session this morning, still I preferred SA-8100 sound signature over au-7500, after switching back and fort over few songs, Zach voice on Take The Power Back from RATM sealed the deal. 
I have put Sansui on local NYC CL and FB marketplace, hopefully someone snatch it soon and I can move on to next integrated. 
I will definitely consider 505 on my next list to try. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/yWQSdOf
https://imgur.com/gallery/Ms5tCkg








UntilThen said:


> Haven't powered up the La Figaro 339 for a while so it's now next to the Sansui AU-505 for a direct comparison. Tubes on the 339 were the Mullard EF86 and Svetlana 6H13C. I could have use my GEC 6as7g for power tubes but I'm done with swapping tubes. Done too much of that.
> 
> The real surprise here is I prefer the sound of the Sansui over the La Figaro. It's more open from mids to the top end and the 505 has a very nice deep bass that is not too pronounced. La Figaro on the other hand sounded more focused (close in) in the mids and have a 'thinner' sound compared to the Sansui. Which is a surprise because before the Sansui arrived, I had always thought that the LF 339 sounded wide and open.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

I'm almost tempted to buy the AU-7500 but the next Sansui will probably be the x701 or a 907. 

Both those 2 amps are in very good condition from the photos and both are very nice looking vintage amps. You should have no problem selling the Sansui.

As everyone have their own preference, you did the right thing. Keep the one you prefer, based on sound.


----------



## richard51

UntilThen said:


> Haven't powered up the La Figaro 339 for a while so it's now next to the Sansui AU-505 for a direct comparison. Tubes on the 339 were the Mullard EF86 and Svetlana 6H13C. I could have use my GEC 6as7g for power tubes but I'm done with swapping tubes. Done too much of that.
> 
> The real surprise here is I prefer the sound of the Sansui over the La Figaro. It's more open from mids to the top end and the 505 has a very nice deep bass that is not too pronounced. La Figaro on the other hand sounded more focused (close in) in the mids and have a 'thinner' sound compared to the Sansui. Which is a surprise because before the Sansui arrived, I had always thought that the LF 339 sounded wide and open.
> 
> ...



What a testimony!  These varieties of experience  with some other very good gear confirm my experience with my Sansui...Thanks very much for these impressions that speak volume...At least to us vintage afficionados...


----------



## kid vic

UntilThen said:


> Haven't powered up the La Figaro 339 for a while so it's now next to the Sansui AU-505 for a direct comparison. Tubes on the 339 were the Mullard EF86 and Svetlana 6H13C. I could have use my GEC 6as7g for power tubes but I'm done with swapping tubes. Done too much of that.
> 
> The real surprise here is I prefer the sound of the Sansui over the La Figaro. It's more open from mids to the top end and the 505 has a very nice deep bass that is not too pronounced. La Figaro on the other hand sounded more focused (close in) in the mids and have a 'thinner' sound compared to the Sansui. Which is a surprise because before the Sansui arrived, I had always thought that the LF 339 sounded wide and open.
> 
> ...



Thats how it seems to be, no matter how good a headphone amp is, regardless of the price a vintage integrated is as good or better and oftentimes cheaper!


----------



## KG Jag

One thing you don't get with vintage is a balanced output--at least not from the headphone jack.


----------



## kid vic

KG Jag said:


> One thing you don't get with vintage is a balanced output--at least not from the headphone jack.



You'll get enough power out off the headphone jacket and if you need more than that theres always the speaker taps...


----------



## UntilThen

KG Jag said:


> One thing you don't get with vintage is a balanced output--at least not from the headphone jack.



I've owned Yggdrasil and Ragnarok in the past. Yggdrasil is still with me. I've sold off my brand new Ragnarok. Both my HD800 and LCD-2f have balanced xlr cables and in this setup, it is very good.

However the Sansui AU-505 with 1/4 inch jack sounds better with those same headphones to my ears. I don't miss the balance output. The AU-505 with the headphone out drives those headphones with authority and power galore. Just be careful not to turn the volume up too much.


----------



## UntilThen

kid vic said:


> You'll get enough power out off the headphone jacket and if you need more than that theres always the speaker taps...



You were faster with your response than I could post.  I agree completely. The headphone out is so powerful. I don't see how I could need the speaker taps unless I have a HE-6.


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> What a testimony!  These varieties of experience  with some other very good gear confirm my experience with my Sansui...Thanks very much for these impressions that speak volume...At least to us vintage afficionados...



Just feel a bit sheepish to have stumbled on vintage amps after 3 intense years in head-fi (and spending a lot on headphone amps both ss and tube amps) but it's not too late.


----------



## KG Jag (Mar 10, 2019)

Not knocking the sound of vintage amps or my silver faced top of the line or nearly so Sansui and Sony receivers.  Nevertheless my experience with my best headphones (e.g. HE-6 & similar Focal & Senn HD 800 flavors) is that they perform best from balanced in and especially balanced out from my Cavalli & Auralic dedicated headphone amps.

Speaker taps certainly deliver the power, but it's a bit like playing with nitro.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 10, 2019)

KG Jag said:


> Speaker taps certainly deliver the power, but it's a bit like playing with nitro.



I try the speaker taps of My Sansui Au 7700 with my hifiman he 400.. But the headphone out was so good that it seems preposterous to going on with the speakers out and the less volume flexibility+ the possibility of explosive error in volume adjustment...The sound coming from the headphone out was the sound of the amp,minus some resistance,then more than good for me and like some testimonies here confirm that,better it seems than many headphone amplifier...

The best solution, if I had money, would be to drive the amplifier not from the electrical grid of my house(already cleaned tough) but to buy some big lithium battery and connect the amplifier to it, with some other cleaning solutions applied to the battery, this out of the grid solution will transform the amplifier and would put it to another level...But the price will be more than 1000 bucks, too much for me...Luckily my electrical grid is cleaned...But I think battery+cleaning method would be better.... My dac is driven with lithium battery and it induce a lower noise floor and that is astounding difference compared to a transformer connected to the wall even cleaned...

Then the greatest upgrade is always: use a clean electrical grid or better than that go off the electrical house grid with a battery and clean the audio grid also....You will listen after that to the true quality potential of your amplifier or dac, this is THE UPGRADE, especially if you had already good dac and  amplifier... But generally instead of thinking, we almost all want a one simple solution that is: supposedly buying the best gear,most of the times the costlier one...In reality it is not so simple and we must think to find solutions ...


----------



## kid vic

KG Jag said:


> Not knocking the sound of vintage amps or my silver faced top of the line or nearly so Sansui and Sony receivers.  Nevertheless my experience with my best headphones (e.g. HE-6 & similar Focal & Senn HD 800 flavors) is that they perform best from balanced in and especially balanced out from my Cavalli & Auralic dedicated headphone amps.
> 
> Speaker taps certainly deliver the power, but it's a bit like playing with nitro.



HE-6 off the taps is a dodge viper on premium, my HE-500 off the taps can't be that far away. Never owned a Focal or Senny can but what yours ear tell you may be more important than the things you read online; nevertheless, your in the wrong thread to win this argument via popular vote


----------



## mark-g

kid vic said:


> HE-6 off the taps is a dodge viper on premium, my HE-500 off the taps can't be that far away. Never owned a Focal or Senny can but what yours ear tell you may be more important than the things you read online; nevertheless, your in the wrong thread to win this argument via popular vote



+1 kid vic. I can't get enough of my HE-500's on the pioneer amps and receivers I have. Think I favor them most off the SX780 for sound even though I know the SA8800 is a better amp. I had a play around making the speaker tap box they sell for the HE-6 and in the end managed to find one. I tired a few different resistance combinations but don't think I could really tell much difference. Its hard to A/B them. That was the next part of the project I never got round to was making it selectable on a dial/switch etc. I also found the only time I can really enjoy the Sen HD650's was from the vintage gear.


----------



## UntilThen

Now that you mention HD650, I just realised I haven't tried that headphone with the Sansui, so out it comes and it's  very good ! I have a modified HD650 and this is one of the best I've heard HD650 sound - listening to one of my fav test track 'Private Investigations' - Dire Straits. Those drums have impact ! and the guitar twang and zing like it's on fire !


----------



## SpeakerBox (Mar 11, 2019)

HD600s sound great on this.  The best I have heard them.


----------



## richard51

Beautiful piece and marvellous logo...Thanks


----------



## richard51 (Mar 10, 2019)

It is a Fisher 400  ? I think... I search it with google photos...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yes, Fisher 400.  Completely recapped now and with new LEDs in the dial display.  Last step will be to re-tube.


----------



## richard51

This Fisher is  a legendary tube receiver, i dont doubt that it would put your Hd 600 at their best...


----------



## Oregonian

kid vic said:


> HE-6 off the taps is a dodge viper on premium, my HE-500 off the taps can't be that far away. Never owned a Focal or Senny can but what yours ear tell you may be more important than the things you read online; nevertheless, your in the wrong thread to win this argument via popular vote



I ran my HE-6's (two separate ownership periods) from speaker taps as I currently run my HE-400 from speaker taps and to my ears the difference was clear - speaker taps did the best job of replicating what I preferred - tight bass, clean treble and no downside.  The HE-400 from the taps is a less than $200 headphone that rivals anything I've heard and there are times I listen to it over even my Pioneer SE Master 1 when I feel like really feeling the thump and turn up the volume a bit higher than usual.  The bass from the taps on that headphone (yes, it's modded with every conceivable mod you can do to a HFM) is glorious.


----------



## kid vic

Oregonian said:


> I ran my HE-6's (two separate ownership periods) from speaker taps as I currently run my HE-400 from speaker taps and to my ears the difference was clear - speaker taps did the best job of replicating what I preferred - tight bass, clean treble and no downside.  The HE-400 from the taps is a less than $200 headphone that rivals anything I've heard and there are times I listen to it over even my Pioneer SE Master 1 when I feel like really feeling the thump and turn up the volume a bit higher than usual.  The bass from the taps on that headphone (yes, it's modded with every conceivable mod you can do to a HFM) is glorious.



I've run my HE500's (same pair the whole time) off of 4 different amps through the speaker taps every time and have never been disappointed. They are basically why I refuse to pay more than $1,300 for a pair of headphones (that and the Utopias were incredibly disappointing IMO).


----------



## Monsterzero

kid vic said:


> I've run my HE500's (same pair the whole time) off of 4 different amps through the speaker taps every time and have never been disappointed. They are basically why I refuse to pay more than $1,300 for a pair of headphones (that and the Utopias were incredibly disappointing IMO).



ZMF headphones sound very good thru vintage receivers...just sayin'.


----------



## kid vic

Monsterzero said:


> ZMF headphones sound very good thru vintage receivers...just sayin'.



I am waiting in wait for a used set. The problem is that I meant $1,300 CAD or about $980 USD... The permanent Canadian recession is not eased by superior health care...


----------



## GreenNeedle (Mar 12, 2019)

I said pages and pages ago (probably 100. lol) that I would post up my Trio.  I moved house so lots of things haven't been done.

I should add first that I might seem mad but I like veneering things.  Doesn't matter if they are worthless so yes, in some cases you might think "Why on earth has he bothered to spruce up that" and in some other cases you will be thinking "the box is worth more than the bl**dy unit the fool."

First off we have a Rotel RX-150A that I bought ages ago to plug a Trio KD1033 turntable into.  It isn't a beast by no means at 8W per channel (I think) but it looks nice and retro, gives enough volume for sensible listening.  I then veneered the receiver and the turntable in the same veneer:

 

Lamps replaced and all Lit up it looks like this:
 

Then last year I bought a Trio KR3600  It's only 22W per channel but it sounds beautiful.  Awesome clarity (to my mind) whether using headphones or speakers.  It had wooden ends and black steel lid.  I saw some of those Marantz customs in their own boxes so I cut up some Mdf, routed grooves on the inside, got a nice smart grill for the top and veneered it in some Macassar Ebony.  It did look like this:
 

Again I replaced the lamps then put it in the box and it now looks like this (excuse my rubbish photos):
 
 

And one you will all laugh at.  I saw this "Alpha by Highgate" unit on ebay and loved the look of it.  Said it was faulty (working but no lights) and so I had to have it.  Cost me £5.99 + £7 postage.  I had some single sheets of mismatched flame maple that was left over from other projects and so this one is most definitely one of those that only a madman would waste veneer on.  No idea of the specs on this chap.  It is a bit below in output as the Rotel but much older.  The weird thing is this sounds incredible on older stuff.  Early 1960s and earlier.  Stuff from the 40s and 50s especially.  Barbershop stuff sounds out of this world.  Definitely the one to put Bing Crosby or Herb Alper on.   My Dad heard it and took it. It will no be playing stuff like Matt Munro and Radio 2 on Sundays.  It's linked up to a couple of 20W JVC mini speakers and he loves it.  It is in the photos of the group of all 3 below:

 

 

 

So these 3 cost me (including shipping) a total of....................£120.  All were working fine other than lamps when I got them.


----------



## denox

UntilThen said:


> Haven't powered up the La Figaro 339 for a while so it's now next to the Sansui AU-505 for a direct comparison. Tubes on the 339 were the Mullard EF86 and Svetlana 6H13C. I could have use my GEC 6as7g for power tubes but I'm done with swapping tubes. Done too much of that.
> 
> The real surprise here is I prefer the sound of the Sansui over the La Figaro. It's more open from mids to the top end and the 505 has a very nice deep bass that is not too pronounced. La Figaro on the other hand sounded more focused (close in) in the mids and have a 'thinner' sound compared to the Sansui. Which is a surprise because before the Sansui arrived, I had always thought that the LF 339 sounded wide and open.
> 
> ...




I am sold. I have reached out to AU-7500 previous seller and will take his re-capped AU-505. 
I really enjoying AU-7500 with both HD58x or LCD2C.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 11, 2019)

Awesome pieces at a ridiculous price!  I wish I would listen to your system...Thanks for the photos especially the 3 last one...Sometimes and perhaps often, the greatest joy is on small pieces and great music...





GreenNeedle said:


> I said pages and pages ago (probably 100. lol) that I would post up my Trio.  I moved house so lots of things haven't been done.
> 
> I should add first that I might seem mad but I like veneering things.  Doesn't matter if they are worthless so yes, in some cases you might think "Why on earth has he bothered to spruce up that" and in some other cases you will be thinking "the box is worth more than the bl**dy unit the fool."
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

It's easy to become a collector once you start to love vintage amps or receivers.


----------



## UntilThen

Sansui AU-7700 arrived yesterday and still in very good condition for it's age. This unit has been recapped, restored and fitted with a new power cable.


----------



## UntilThen

I spend several hours listening to music comparing the AU-7700 and AU-505, fed from Yggdrasil and driving the Sennheiser HD800.

The AU-505 sounds more laid back, warmer and definitely have a deeper and heavier bottom end, which is really lovely with classic rock. The AU-7700 is clearer, still on the warm side of neutral but less so than the 505. The 7700 has a lot more sparkle and is a good contrast. I find that when I'm listening using one amp, it's easy to forget about the other. They are just that enjoyable and musical, transforming the HD800.


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> HD600s sound great on this.  The best I have heard them.



Wow, you did such a super job on this amp SpeakerBox.  It truly looks awesome.   I have the HD600 also (have owned it for over a decade) & I'd love to hear it on that amp.


----------



## kid vic

GreenNeedle said:


> I said pages and pages ago (probably 100. lol) that I would post up my Trio.  I moved house so lots of things haven't been done.
> 
> I should add first that I might seem mad but I like veneering things.  Doesn't matter if they are worthless so yes, in some cases you might think "Why on earth has he bothered to spruce up that" and in some other cases you will be thinking "the box is worth more than the bl**dy unit the fool."
> 
> ...



The Trio is beautiful now! Great work


----------



## kid vic

UntilThen said:


> I spend several hours listening to music comparing the AU-7700 and AU-505, fed from Yggdrasil and driving the Sennheiser HD800.
> 
> The AU-505 sounds more laid back, warmer and definitely have a deeper and heavier bottom end, which is really lovely with classic rock. The AU-7700 is clearer, still on the warm side of neutral but less so than the 505. The 7700 has a lot more sparkle and is a good contrast. I find that when I'm listening using one amp, it's easy to forget about the other. They are just that enjoyable and musical, transforming the HD800.



Like you said its easy to become a collector!


----------



## GreenNeedle (Mar 12, 2019)

kid vic said:


> The Trio is beautiful now! Great work



Pretty from the outside, just don't look inside


----------



## GreenNeedle

SirMarc said:


> Getting ready to spin Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans



If it weren't for the speakers that picture could have come straight from the seventies   Panelled walls included.  Lovely setup.


----------



## GreenNeedle

BobG55 said:


> On the McIntosh website you click on "Products" followed by "Merchandise".  They sell all sorts of different items with McIntosh displayed on the item somewhere.  They realize that nowadays a lot of people love displaying the fact they own certain "prestigious" brand name items. They make money & the items they sell become free advertisement for them.  It's a win win proposition for them. They make money & free advertisement at the same time.  I've posted the link to their "Merchandise" page below.
> 
> Check out how they introduce their "Merchandise" page :
> 
> ...



That is hilarious.  I'm gonna make me a TRIO one with a cree in a box.


----------



## SpeakerBox

BobG55 said:


> Wow, you did such a super job on this amp SpeakerBox.  It truly looks awesome.   I have the HD600 also (have owned it for over a decade) & I'd love to hear it on that amp.



Thanks, my friend.  I have to admit I have not been as wowed by the 600s as most seem to be.  They sound thin to my ears (lacking substance).  They sound OK on the 1250, but still missing something.  The tubes in the Fisher seemed to put some meat on the bones.  That said, my Sony MDR-V6 still beat them when hooked up to my HK330A.


----------



## SirMarc (Mar 13, 2019)

GreenNeedle said:


> If it weren't for the speakers that picture could have come straight from the seventies   Panelled walls included.  Lovely setup.


Thanks my man! Been some changes since then, only two vintage pieces left, the Thorens (which is never going anywhere) and Dynaco phono stage. Got tired of the upkeep and lack of remote.

If anyone local to NJ is interested in the Sansui 9090 pm me. Here's a pic of the new gear.





And since its relative to this site lol, the headphone out of the PS Audio pre amp is awesome.


----------



## Monsterzero

SirMarc said:


> Thanks my man! Been some changes since then, only two vintage pieces left, the Thorens (which is never going anywhere) and Dynaco phono stage. Got tired of the upkeep and lack of remote.
> 
> If anyone local to NJ is interested in the Sansui 9090 pm me. Here's a pic of the new gear.
> 
> ...



How much do you want for the Sansui? Im in eastern Lawn Guy Land


----------



## SirMarc

Monsterzero said:


> How much do you want for the Sansui? Im in eastern Lawn Guy Land


Sent a pm


----------



## UntilThen

Wow I would love that 9090 too.


----------



## SirMarc

UntilThen said:


> Wow I would love that 9090 too.


If you're local, we can talk, if not, don't really want to ship this thing, its over 60 lbs! Lol


----------



## UntilThen

Unfortunately I’m in Australia. So let Monsterzero have it. 

I have my sight on a AU-717 but that 9090 is very nice.


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> So let Monsterzero have it.



Too much amp for my speakers,and im spending too much $ on tubes lately,and still havent got a WE 422a yet


----------



## UntilThen

I’m rolling vintage amps now. You can never have enough of Sansui.... and Pioneer and there’s a vintage Sony on the local forum I must resist. Also a very nice vintage Kenwood in mint condition.....


----------



## BobG55 (Mar 13, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> I’m rolling vintage amps now. You can never have enough of Sansui.... and Pioneer and there’s a vintage Sony on the local forum *I must resist*. Also a very nice vintage Kenwood in mint condition.....


----------



## SpeakerBox

Resistance is futile!


----------



## Blommen

Guys, anybody have any experience with the Sony TA-F770ES, for headphones as well as speakers?


----------



## UntilThen

A 3rd Sansui is on the way. This picture was sent to me by the Sansui specialist restorer, a real gentleman. It's getting an overhaul and recap. Looking very good after 40 years. 85w of conservative power.

Nude Sansui AU-717


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I shall look forward to getting the AU 7700.
> 
> When I went to pick up the AU 505, the owner has in his music room like 6 or 7 Sansui amps, including the alpha series. Wish I had stayed to listen to some of them.



I'm so very glad that you're still loving the AU-505 - the Sansui sound is quite addictive, hence my collection! It is a shame that we didn't get time to have a listen to my other gear.

I'm very much looking forward to your thoughts regarding the AU-717 too.


----------



## UntilThen

petemac110 said:


> I'm so very glad that you're still loving the AU-505 - the Sansui sound is quite addictive, hence my collection! It is a shame that we didn't get time to have a listen to my other gear.
> 
> I'm very much looking forward to your thoughts regarding the AU-717 too.



Well I had no idea my Sansui guru is on Head-Fi too. Fortunately all I say about you are good things. 

I am indeed looking forward to the 717. I read so much good things about in audiokarma.


----------



## UntilThen

The Sansui AU-717 arrived today and after 2 hours of Leonard Cohen, Nils Lofgren, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and Uriah Heep, the search for nirvana is over. HD800 has bass ! clarity without giving you tinnitus and vocals of angels. When the bass notes comes on the LCD-2f, I know I have found the right amp. It's titanic.

Probably an overkill to use the 717 to drive headphones but it sure sounds good - make that great - make that fantastic ! Next test would be to hook up my 150w 4 ohms Axis LS88 speakers.

It would be a while before it leaves the desktop for the lounge. Yggdrasil is feeding it now. Oh Sansui, why did it take 41 years for me to discover you. This amp was manufactured in 1978 so Skippy (my Sansui specialist) tells me but it's in tip top condition and Skippy has restored it completely.


----------



## SirMarc

UntilThen said:


> The Sansui AU-717 arrived today and after 2 hours of Leonard Cohen, Nils Lofgren, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and Uriah Heep, the search for nirvana is over. HD800 has bass ! clarity without giving you tinnitus and vocals of angels. When the bass notes comes on the LCD-2f, I know I have found the right amp. It's titanic.
> 
> Probably an overkill to use the 717 to drive headphones but it sure sounds good - make that great - make that fantastic ! Next test would be to hook up my 150w 4 ohms Axis LS88 speakers.
> 
> It would be a while before it leaves the desktop for the lounge. Yggdrasil is feeding it now. Oh Sansui, why did it take 41 years for me to discover you. This amp was manufactured in 1978 so Skippy (my Sansui specialist) tells me but it's in tip top condition and Skippy has restored it completely.


Nice!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Beautiful gear.  We all may end up with Sansui envy.


----------



## richard51

SpeakerBox said:


> Beautiful gear.  We all may end up with Sansui envy.



Indeed!


----------



## richard51

By the way I own 2 Sansui, The AU-7700 and the AU-X701, they sound more than very good the 2 of them,though really different; more refine sound for the X series, more organic tubelike sound in the case of the 7700... Then any Sansui  of the golden era sound like gold indeed,different hues of gold for sure...


----------



## Oregonian

UntilThen said:


> The Sansui AU-717 arrived today and after 2 hours of Leonard Cohen, Nils Lofgren, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and Uriah Heep, the search for nirvana is over. *HD800 has bass* ! clarity without giving you tinnitus and vocals of angels. When the bass notes comes on the LCD-2f, I know I have found the right amp. It's titanic.
> 
> Probably an overkill to use the 717 to drive headphones but it sure sounds good - make that great - make that fantastic ! Next test would be to hook up my 150w 4 ohms Axis LS88 speakers.
> 
> It would be a while before it leaves the desktop for the lounge. Yggdrasil is feeding it now. Oh Sansui, why did it take 41 years for me to discover you. This amp was manufactured in 1978 so Skippy (my Sansui specialist) tells me but it's in tip top condition and Skippy has restored it completely.



Great point about the HD800 - I had them for a few months and after feeding them from my Pioneer Spec system had no lack of bass in any way, shape or form.


----------



## BobG55

UntilThen said:


> The Sansui AU-717 arrived today and after 2 hours of Leonard Cohen, Nils Lofgren, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and Uriah Heep, the search for nirvana is over. HD800 has bass ! clarity without giving you tinnitus and vocals of angels. When the bass notes comes on the LCD-2f, I know I have found the right amp. It's titanic.
> 
> Probably an overkill to use the 717 to drive headphones but it sure sounds good - make that great - make that fantastic ! Next test would be to hook up my 150w 4 ohms Axis LS88 speakers.
> 
> It would be a while before it leaves the desktop for the lounge. Yggdrasil is feeding it now. Oh Sansui, why did it take 41 years for me to discover you. This amp was manufactured in 1978 so Skippy (my Sansui specialist) tells me but it's in tip top condition and Skippy has restored it completely.



A beauty !  I'm not surprised by the fact that you're enjoying the sound.  Happy for you.  I own the AU-7900 & love it.


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> The Sansui AU-717 arrived today and after 2 hours of Leonard Cohen, Nils Lofgren, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and Uriah Heep, the search for nirvana is over. HD800 has bass ! clarity without giving you tinnitus and vocals of angels. When the bass notes comes on the LCD-2f, I know I have found the right amp. It's titanic.
> 
> Probably an overkill to use the 717 to drive headphones but it sure sounds good - make that great - make that fantastic ! Next test would be to hook up my 150w 4 ohms Axis LS88 speakers.
> 
> It would be a while before it leaves the desktop for the lounge. Yggdrasil is feeding it now. Oh Sansui, why did it take 41 years for me to discover you. This amp was manufactured in 1978 so Skippy (my Sansui specialist) tells me but it's in tip top condition and Skippy has restored it completely



So very glad that you’re enjoying the 717. You have three excellent examples of the 70’s Sansui sound right there, each with their own character and charm. 

You’ll now understand why Dad and I are such huge Sansui fans!


----------



## UntilThen

I'm no doubt a Sansui fan now too and it all started with that 505 from you, then the 717 from your dad.

The fabulous sound of Sansui amps. I've 7700 and 717 side by side tonight and the Audeze LCD-2f is a joy to listen to.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> I'm no doubt a Sansui fan now too and it all started with that 505 from you, then the 717 from your dad.
> 
> The fabulous sound of Sansui amps. I've 7700 and 717 side by side tonight and the Audeze LCD-2f is a joy to listen to.



Ah..UT, bitten by the vintage bug, are you not?  Maybe you can sell me one of your Sansuis when you're bored with them


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Ah..UT, bitten by the vintage bug, are you not?  Maybe you can sell me one of your Sansuis when you're bored with them



Never knew I would get into vintage amps Ross but they are incredible sounding with my headphones. 

Comparing these 2 amps, the AU-7700 reminds me of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes whilst the AU-717 is akin to GEC 6as7g. Such lovely variation.


----------



## Rossliew

Yes indeed, they do have gobs of power and bring out the best in headphones. I do notice most of these vintage amps pare better with higher impedance headphones. You should try driving your planars straight off the speaker taps. I have a vintage NAD 3020 amp myself and it remains my most bang for the buck audio gear purchase thus far.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Rossliew said:


> I do notice most of these vintage amps pare better with higher impedance headphones.



Have noticed the same thing.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Yes indeed, they do have gobs of power and bring out the best in headphones. I do notice most of these vintage amps pare better with higher impedance headphones. You should try driving your planars straight off the speaker taps. I have a vintage NAD 3020 amp myself and it remains my most bang for the buck audio gear purchase thus far.



A NAD 3020 would be lovely.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> A NAD 3020 would be lovely.



Indeed it is. But an extra Sansui would be most welcomed


----------



## BobG55 (Mar 19, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Never knew I would get into vintage amps Ross but they are incredible sounding with my headphones.
> 
> Comparing these 2 amps, the AU-7700 reminds me of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes whilst the AU-717 is akin to GEC 6as7g. Such lovely variation.



I know what you mean.  I also never knew I'd get into vintage amps until some 12 years ago or so when, my brother offered me his Kenwood KA-8006 (1974.)  I was with him when he bought it new back in '74.  I'm glad I said yes when he offered it to me.  At the time I had just bought a Cambridge Azur 750A & thought I was set for life.  When I finally _tried out _the Kenwood my jaw almost hit the floor.  It made the Cambridge sound like a transistor radio (slight exaggeration).  I've owned nothing but vintage amps since as my main amp for my system.


----------



## BobG55

Rossliew said:


> I do notice most of these vintage amps pare better with higher impedance headphones.



Also agree about the high impedance headphones although my HE500 planar also does very well w/ both my KA-8006 & AU-7900.


----------



## Rossliew (Mar 19, 2019)

Have once owned the mythical Pioneer SX1280 (if my memory recalls correctly) . What a beast! Heavy weight and drove my then HE6 like it was a puny child, and that's straight out of the headphone jacks. Never tried it off the speaker taps though. Had to sell it as it was giving me issues and I didn't know anyone locally competent enough to refurb it.


----------



## UntilThen

Ross you're probably going to wait a very long time to get one of my Sansui(s). Probably never. 

They are all so incredibly sounding I can't decide which I like better.... and this is with headphones. With speakers, it's no contest.... I like the AU-717 best with my speakers.


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Ross you're probably going to wait a very long time to get one of my Sansui(s). Probably never.
> 
> They are all so incredibly sounding I can't decide which I like better.... and this is with headphones. With speakers, it's no contest.... I like the AU-717 best with my speakers.



So, where goes the GOTL and...Stratus?


----------



## UntilThen

Keeping the GOTL when it comes back from USA. Cancelled the order for the Stratus.

When I heard the Sansui(s), I know that I need not go chasing after tubes anymore.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 19, 2019)

I think this thread is very revelatory and instructive....For us all, but especially for newcomers... It shine a new light on the signification and experience with tubes and S.S. for example... In reality there is some less good S.S. and some less good tube amp. and there is some very good amp tube or S.S.  the essential thing is :  what price must be paid for  a very good amplifier? Is it wise to pay some money for some vintage amp? The answer seems a resounding yes! Here... The ratio quality/price for a vintage amp able to drive some headphones with speakers,and with a flexibility of use superior to almost all contemporary amp. exceed the possibilities of all contemporary amplifier at ANY price...The money invested in my Sansui is peanuts in relation to the services it gives to me and there is no end to his capability for now and the future, except for sure the necessary minimal investment for his maintenance or repair...


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> Keeping the GOTL when it comes back from USA. Cancelled the order for the Stratus.
> 
> When I heard the Sansui(s), I know that I need not go chasing after tubes anymore.


Well, until the itch begins again..


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Well, until the itch begins again..



The only itch left in me is another Sansui ....   probably a 907 alpha.


----------



## williamhifi

I used to like receivers, and still keep a few, but didn't use them for a long time due to lack of space.
I like my Mac 1700 and 1900. The 1700 has a tube fm I think, with nice warm sound. 1900 is all solid state. Both hv not been used for at least 15 years. 
I hv Fisher 400 tube receiver too, but after a few hours the reception cud shift.
Still like those receivers from the 60s..
Oh yes, also hv a Dual 70s solid state with preset stations.  Those were big features in the 70s.
Need to restore and tweak them if I were to use them again..


----------



## SpeakerBox

williamhifi said:


> I have Fisher 400 tube receiver too, but after a few hours the reception cud shift.



I have one too.  Known to sound very good with LS3/5As (mine are clones but still sound fantastic with the 400).  If you want to fix yours there is a kit produced by an outfit called Metalbone.  Worked wonders for my 400.


----------



## Rossliew

I'm looking at a used AU517 and in totally stock form without any servicing done. Seller looking to sell the amp with the matching TU517 tuner for roughly US$550. Reckon this is a good price?


----------



## UntilThen

Looking at ebay price, that looks reasonable but get it recapped and restored. Assuming it's in physically good condition? The AU-517 would be as good as the 717 but with less power. Still 65w is a lot and ample for most needs.

I got my 717 from skippy124 who did this restoration video back in 2013. You will see him active in auddiokarma. Having met him personally, he is a very nice person and one of the best in Sansui amps restoration, if not the best. 
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/55836-another-sansui-au-717-restoration/

The last few nights, I'm amazed at the musicality of the 717 driving my LCD-2f. Quality bass that is deep and low. The lushness of midrange. It's a great tone. The tone controls and loudness switches are not gimmicks. They are actually fun to experiment with but generally I left them off. When I tried them, I couldn't help smiling.

Another picture of the insides of my 717. Skippy has completely overhaul it.


----------



## Rossliew

I envy you for having specialists around that you can reach out for help. It's pretty much a gamble here as most are not really specialists per se but perhaps merely technicians who are jack of all trades but master of none.


----------



## williamhifi

SpeakerBox said:


> I have one too.  Known to sound very good with LS3/5As (mine are clones but still sound fantastic with the 400).  If you want to fix yours there is a kit produced by an outfit called Metalbone.  Worked wonders for my 400.


Fisher has a very warm nice sound, one of the top brand in the 60s and 70s. I followed some of the discussion in Audio Asylum years ago, some of the old timers said Fishers original dedigners were German engineer that knows the tubes very well.  Those engineers perhsps were with Siemens or telefunken that produced some of the best tubes in the world


----------



## williamhifi

UntilThen said:


> Looking at ebay price, that looks reasonable but get it recapped and restored. Assuming it's in physically good condition? The AU-517 would be as good as the 717 but with less power. Still 65w is a lot and ample for most needs.
> 
> I got my 717 from skippy124 who did this restoration video back in 2013. You will see him active in auddiokarma. Having met him personally, he is a very nice person and one of the best in Sansui amps restoration, if not the best.
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/55836-another-sansui-au-717-restoration/
> ...




Wow look like new to me, as if it was just made yesterday!
I have opened up a few amps to restored and modified, except just to admired without working on it.. as they are a piece of history!
The last one I struggled but not succeeded was a pilot el 84 pp power amp.
I hv no reservation in tweaking amps in the 90s, including Mark Levenson,  McIntosh,  Jeff Rowland,  Gryphone... if they are commercially available,  they hv weak point to take care of...


----------



## williamhifi

Rossliew said:


> I envy you for having specialists around that you can reach out for help. It's pretty much a gamble here as most are not really specialists per se but perhaps merely technicians who are jack of all trades but master of none.



Am not familiar with the new format in head fi now... I assume this post is for me?
In Audio Asylum and some other hifi forums there are lots of experts that I learnt a lot from. I think I hv spent 5 years reading and asking questions to the experts on different fields. 
I love electronics myself since young, i guess it's in my blood and I cud still sit down to do soldering for 5 to 10 years, even after 50+ years, even with the tiny surface mount devices.. 
Well that's why I studied physics and electronics engineering...


----------



## Van Isle

Rossliew said:


> I'm looking at a used AU517 and in totally stock form without any servicing done. Seller looking to sell the amp with the matching TU517 tuner for roughly US$550. Reckon this is a good price?



Problem with that series is the glue used to hold the caps in place has turned corrosive over time and may have damaged traces, etc. So a recap job may turn into requiring a lot of restoration and be far much more $ than initially expected.


----------



## UntilThen

jnorris said:


> I have always felt that the prodigious gobs of current instantaneously available from a receiver/integrated amp/amplifier renders far more dynamics and presence that the current-starved tube/op-amp/discrete crop of headphone-specific amps.  And if you thought the Pioneer sounded good, you should hear some of the more respected names in components.  MacIntosh, Denon, and NAD spring to mind.



Well said. I must read this thread in it's entirety. I'm still gobsmacked at what I'm hearing from the HD800 and LCD-2f, powered by the AU-717.


----------



## denox

I will have a chance to scoop recapped AU-505 soon, seller asking for $300 shipped, as I understand this is a fair price for recapped 505 in excellent condition, am I right?
I ended up keeping my AU-7500 and added Conrad Johnson PV5 tube preamp few days ago, using 7500 as amplifier with PV5, sound deliciously liquid.


----------



## DRHamp

The noobiest Sansui noob here and my first Sansui amp.  Got it today and it looks pretty clean.  Haven't applied any power yet, but will do that soon.
$160 plus $40 shipping -- that may be way too much, but I'm happy.


----------



## UntilThen

I love the AU-505. The bass is even more pronounced than 717, albeit more compact. 717 has more body and presence.


----------



## denox

UntilThen said:


> I love the AU-505. The bass is even more pronounced than 717, albeit more compact. 717 has more body and presence.




That is very interesting. 
I bought 717 few months back unfortunately unit was not working properly upon arrival and sold it quickly, I did not have a chance to hear it in it's glory condition.


----------



## UntilThen

DRHamp, that's a very new looking AU-317. Pete can tell us more about it. He's the Sansui man.


----------



## Rossliew

Van Isle said:


> Problem with that series is the glue used to hold the caps in place has turned corrosive over time and may have damaged traces, etc. So a recap job may turn into requiring a lot of restoration and be far much more $ than initially expected.


Thanks for the good advice there. Would never know until the amp was opened up. Guess I'll just stick to my NAD 3020 for now.


----------



## frank2908

I have a sansui au20000, which drove my kef ls50 to perfection. But I sold the kef and would use it mainly for my hd800
Comparing the mojo dac out to Sansui vs mojo internal amp powering my hd800, the sound is almost unchanged. There is no extra detail, soundstage remain the same, except the sansui make it sounds a little bit smoother.
I think the amp has never been restored, Should I invest time and money to recap or sell and buy something modern for my hd800?


----------



## Byronb

DRHamp said:


> The noobiest Sansui noob here and my first Sansui amp.  Got it today and it looks pretty clean.  Haven't applied any power yet, but will do that soon.
> $160 plus $40 shipping -- that may be way too much, but I'm happy.


If you are happy it's not way too much.


----------



## petemac110 (Mar 22, 2019)

DRHamp said:


> The noobiest Sansui noob here and my first Sansui amp.  Got it today and it looks pretty clean.  Haven't applied any power yet, but will do that soon.
> $160 plus $40 shipping -- that may be way too much, but I'm happy.



Nice buying! In my opinion you've done well. It's not a steal, but given the condition, it's a very reasonable price. I use a fully overhauled 317 in my PC rig and it never fails to satisfy. 50 WPC and the same general sonic signature as its larger brethren such as the AU-517 and 717.

It appears that a few capacitors have already been replaced, although I can't tell if they are a reputable brand or not.


----------



## DRHamp

petemac110 said:


> Nice buying! In my opinion you've done well. It's not a steal, but given the condition, it's a very reasonable price. I use a fully overhauled 317 in my PC rig and it never fails to satisfy. 50 WPC and the same general sonic signature as its larger brethren such as the AU-517 and 717.
> 
> It appears that a few capacitors have already been replaced, although I can't tell if they are a reputable brand or not.



Thank you, I'm going to take it a local shop that advertises that they do vintage electronics restores and have them look it over.  Don't know if they know what they are doing though, so I'm pretty much taking a chance.
Anything in particular that I should watch for?
I actually have a 7900 hopefully arriving this week and I'm hoping it's in similiar condition.  At any rate, I'm planning to send  it to the Vintage Sansui restoration place in Eugene Oregon.
Any advice for this noob would be appreciated.


----------



## UntilThen

DRHamp said:


> Thank you, I'm going to take it a local shop that advertises that they do vintage electronics restores and have them look it over.  Don't know if they know what they are doing though, so I'm pretty much taking a chance.
> Anything in particular that I should watch for?
> I actually have a 7900 hopefully arriving this week and I'm hoping it's in similiar condition.  At any rate, I'm planning to send  it to the Vintage Sansui restoration place in Eugene Oregon.
> Any advice for this noob would be appreciated.



Have you heard it yet? How do you like it compared to your Mjolnir 2. 

NIce pickup on the 7900. I love the 7700 too. You have the Yggdrasil. It will pair very well with these vintage Sansui.


----------



## UntilThen

frank2908 said:


> I have a sansui au20000, which drove my kef ls50 to perfection. But I sold the kef and would use it mainly for my hd800
> Comparing the mojo dac out to Sansui vs mojo internal amp powering my hd800, the sound is almost unchanged. There is no extra detail, soundstage remain the same, except the sansui make it sounds a little bit smoother.
> I think the amp has never been restored, Should I invest time and money to recap or sell and buy something modern for my hd800?



I'm still new to vintage Sansui amps but that au20000 is the biggest of the Sansui integrated amps, a much sought after amp.

I've had Mojo, Ragnarok and several tube headphone amps before. Not bashing any of these because I think they do sound very good with my HD800 and LCD-2f but my trio of Sansui au-505, 7700 and 717 gives me much greater joy with these headphones. It's the lovely Sansui tone that I can't get enough of.


----------



## DRHamp

UntilThen said:


> Have you heard it yet? How do you like it compared to your Mjolnir 2.
> 
> NIce pickup on the 7900. I love the 7700 too. You have the Yggdrasil. It will pair very well with these vintage Sansui.



Just fired it up - Qobuz on Win PC>Yggy>317>HD800S

Very very nice - warmer than the Mjolnir and more resolving.  It really tames the 800S brightness (which I pretty much have become used to).
I need to provide some attenuation at the headphone out though - I barely have the volume knob at 7 o:clock -55 db or so.  Very clean and dark with no signal up to about 2 oclock where some noise starts to creep in.  Might re-capping etc solve this?
Gonna try it with my Aeon closed and for grins with the HD6xx.


----------



## UntilThen

On the 7700 and 717, there is a muting switch which when set on, gives me a lot more room to move the volume control. Pretty useful. I don't see it on your 317.

Just tried the 717 - no music on and I could turn the volume knob to max and there's no noise. Quite incredible for a 40 year old amp right? ... the restoration has made it better than new.


----------



## DRHamp

That's awesome - hopefully my restore will clean the noise up.
I can put a passive preamp between the Yggy and the 317 - that might do it, or would it be better to attenuate at the headphone out?


----------



## UntilThen

You can try with a passive preamp but personally even without the muting switch, the slight play of the volume knob didn't bother me. On the 717, it's at 7 o'clock. Power is there aplenty but controlled. Like cruising on the open road in a Rolls Royce.


----------



## UntilThen

Was only a year ago when I really love this set up.

 

Now I have a new favourite.


----------



## DRHamp

Yeah, 6:30 - 7:30 is pretty comfortable and it is definitely better without the passive preamp.  Just seemed to be used to running volume between 10 and 2 -- Don't think I really need the additional power of the 7900 - at least for headphones.


----------



## DRHamp

Very nice - I love the Yggy and that 717 looks awesome


----------



## DRHamp

I'm going to have re-organize this mess - and I really like the MJ2, but it may have to go.


----------



## DRHamp

Well, this solves the attenuation issue - -15 & -30 db switch.  It sound great, just needs to be cleaned up a bit.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice pictures. The Sansui(s) fits right in with the rest of the gear.  The 7900 looks nice, almost similar to my 7700 and in my opinion even nicer looking. The 7700 sounds great with my planar. It's punchy, has a lift to the tone and is slightly brighter than the 505 and 717. The bass is also tighter.

Now you'll see why it's easy for me to buy 3 Sansuis in 2 weeks. I would like a higher spec Sansui later - an Alpha series but first I'll be doing lots of comparison of the 717 with my Redgum 265w 4 ohms integrated amp this weekend with the speakers.


----------



## DRHamp

Yes, both the 317 and the 7900 are less bright than the MJ2, not sure yet, but the 317 may be a little too warm and the 7900 is just perfect.  I'm really looking forward to hearing the improvement after recap and cleanup.


----------



## petemac110

DRHamp said:


> Thank you, I'm going to take it a local shop that advertises that they do vintage electronics restores and have them look it over.  Don't know if they know what they are doing though, so I'm pretty much taking a chance.
> Anything in particular that I should watch for?
> I actually have a 7900 hopefully arriving this week and I'm hoping it's in similiar condition.  At any rate, I'm planning to send  it to the Vintage Sansui restoration place in Eugene Oregon.
> Any advice for this noob would be appreciated.



There are a bunch of things to address on the 317 including the VD1212 diodes, fuse resistors, corrosive glue, noisy transistors, and other tweaks and enhancements. These themes/issues hold true for the bigger AU-517 and 717 amps too. I'd strongly suggest perusing the audiokarma forum for existing detailed resto threads such as this:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...p-upgrade-of-f-2754-and-f-2752-boards.771205/


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> I'm still new to vintage Sansui amps but that au20000 is the biggest of the Sansui integrated amps, a much sought after amp.



The 20000s are beasts for sure - plenty of grunt and a lovely sound. Likewise, the BA/CA-2000 combo is great.

I also rate the sonics of the BA/CA-F1 combo very highly.

A properly overhauled and modded AU-999 is superb, and the AU-888 is essentially a revised AU-999.

The AU-517, 717, 519, 719, 819 and 919 are all great. I also rate the AU-D11 highly.

The AU-555a is a little pocket-rocket...  and the list goes on!

Lastly, I have gravitated towards the later Alpha X-balanced Sansuis - they are less warm overall, but very clean and transparent and less sterile than some modern amps.

A few examples of what I'm talking about (sorry for the photo spamming!)


----------



## UntilThen

Omg I've just gone to Sansui heaven. I could feast on these pics for a long long time.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Good stuff!


----------



## DRHamp

Wow - Wow - Wow ......


----------



## DRHamp

petemac110 said:


> There are a bunch of things to address on the 317 including the VD1212 diodes, fuse resistors, corrosive glue, noisy transistors, and other tweaks and enhancements. These themes/issues hold true for the bigger AU-517 and 717 amps too. I'd strongly suggest perusing the audiokarma forum for existing detailed resto threads such as this:



Thanks - I'll do more reading before I take it in.


----------



## petemac110

DRHamp said:


> Thanks - I'll do more reading before I take it in.



Good stuff - it is well worth your time to compile a short list of the essential things to be tackled, as this info has been built-up over many many years from techs and hobbyists who repair and restore these amps regularly. There is an evidence-based approach to why they recommend what they do. Depending upon the experience and familiarity of techs or shops with these models, they may stick to the basics only and overlook the other issues which are particular to certain makes or models.


----------



## petemac110

And one again, sorry for the photo-bombing of the thread. I just can't help but share some of the Sansui love


----------



## UntilThen

Not at all Pete. Love the photos. Now planning ahead for a Sansui alpha series amp.


----------



## kid vic

petemac110 said:


> And one again, sorry for the photo-bombing of the thread. I just can't help but share some of the Sansui love



If you keep apologizing then we will have to kick you out for disrespecting the Vintage amp love! Put some RESPK on them photos and bless our eyes!


----------



## UntilThen

Bless our wallets too as I'm about to get a Audeze LCD3 to pair with these Sansui amps.


----------



## UntilThen

More photo bombing sessions because vintage amps thread needs photos.

This afternoon, the AU-717 is moved to the lounge for more manly duties. Playing 'Dark Side of the Moon', life couldn't be better. Do I really need the Alpha? 

The source
 

The muscle
 

The innards - shinny caps


----------



## petemac110 (Mar 23, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> life couldn't be better. Do I really need the Alpha?



They definitely offer a point of difference vs the older Sansuis. They are more like the 7700 than the 717 IMHO, but are certainly cleaner and more resolving and the earlier Sansuis to my ears.

We have a few of the smaller alphas (607s or international equivalents like the AU-X701 and AU-X711) and a few of the larger 907s (DR, KX, XR and MR).

The 907s are absolute beasts - 160WPC into 8 ohm loads and 33kgs, with the transformers weighing in at 13kg alone.  The weight difference between most other TOTL Sansuis and the 907s is very noticeable, right in the middle of your back when you try to wrestle these amps into place!

The amplifier feet are solid copper, and there's lots of copper plating and boutique parts throughout including Elna Silmic and Elna Silmic Alpha Gold capacitors,Riken resistors, thick teflon tape for vibration attenuation, copper foil polystyrene caps and U-CON polypropylene caps.  Sansui certainly went all-out with the 907s!

The interesting technical aspect of the Alpha X-Balanced amps is that each channel comprises of two individual channels which are bridged to create one output channel. Thus, each amp contains four channels of amplification overall, bridged to create a two channel amplifier.

A few more pics of the innards of the 907XR (because I'm on a roll!)



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




And a pic of the black-faced 907DR with darker timber side cheeks below:







EDIT no. 2 - I should also apologise as the Alphas do not fit the definition of 'vintage' for many - they extend from 1986 to Sansui's untimely demise around the turn of the century.


----------



## richard51 (Mar 24, 2019)

Pass a certain level of quality, all is preference matter and gear synergy; I had the X701 and The AU- 7700, yes the X701 is a more resolving amp but  the lusher sound of the Au 7700  with plenty of details+ an added flexibility and a beautiful look, I am in love with... But I will never sell the X-701...


----------



## DRHamp

Absolutely Beautiful! I'm in love again


----------



## UntilThen

I thought the 717 innards looks nice but the 907xr takes the gong !

Sansui sure makes beautiful looking amps in those days..... not to mention their seductive sound. 

Btw the 505 starts behaving and I've been listening for several hours with HD800. Really enjoying the tone.


----------



## hawkhead

Mods please confiscate my credit card ..........


----------



## UntilThen

petemac110 said:


> I should also apologise as the Alphas do not fit the definition of 'vintage' for many - they extend from 1986 to Sansui's untimely demise around the turn of the century.



It looks vintage enough to me.


----------



## BobG55




----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice gear BobG55!


----------



## UntilThen

What are the amps there Bob?


----------



## UntilThen

Pete, what are the 3 models in the last photo of this link? The 2 black and gold amps.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cal...eceiver-owners.537704/page-1204#post-14852490


----------



## BobG55 (Mar 23, 2019)

SpeakerBox said:


> Nice gear BobG55!



Thanks Speaker Box.



UntilThen said:


> What are the amps there Bob?



The two vintage amps : on the table up top, Sansui AU-7900.  The one at the bottom, Kenwood KA-8006 (my favourite).  I was with my older brother in 1974 when he bought the Kenwood.  About twelve years ago, he gave it to me and that was how I started my vintage gear journey.

Up top, to the right of the Sansui : bottom, vintage Pioneer Reference PD-91 CD player; on top : Teac PD-H600 CD player, with a rigid aluminium cabinet and front panel.  Finally sitting on top of the Sansui, on the left, JDS Labs Objective 2 & next to it the Subjective 3, analog equalizer.

I combine the Subjective 3 equalizer with both amps' tone/ sound switches.


----------



## BobG55

UntilThen said:


> Omg I've just gone to Sansui heaven. I could feast on these pics for a long long time.



I was going to write the same thing.  Sansui heaven indeed.  Wow.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Speaking of Kenwood - Here is my heavily modified Kenwood KT-7550 Tuner.  Mods done per www.fmtunerinfo.com.  The sound is glorious!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Then, of course - there is this beast:


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> Pete, what are the 3 models in the last photo of this link? The 2 black and gold amps.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cal...eceiver-owners.537704/page-1204#post-14852490




They are the AU-X701, AU-X711 and AU-alpha 607 MRX. All three are '607' series amps and are the 120/240V international models, as opposed to the 100V JDM models like the 907s.

They are a very good entry to the alpha sound, as they are still 90/100WPC and have excellent sound quality, without the weight and need for a separate stepdown transformer like the 707s and 907s. The 707s are well worth considering though - they are better built than the 607s with more power.

Some more pics of the 607s:


----------



## petemac110

BobG55 said:


> The one at the bottom, Kenwood KA-8006 (my favourite).  I was with my older brother in 1974 when he bought the Kenwood.  About twelve years ago, he gave it to me and that was how I started my vintage gear journey.



Ah... I thought it was the 8006!

I've had the pleasure of restoring two of these. They are lovely sounding amps with superb build quality. I was particularly happy with how all of the knobs and switchgear cleaned up with some careful cleaning and hard work! The deeply etched lettering on the front face is also a classy touch - no silk-screening here!

You are very fortunate to have one of these - and the linkage to your older brother makes it all the more special!


----------



## petemac110

richard51 said:


> yes the X601 is a more resolving amp but  the lusher sound of the Au 7700  with plenty of details+ an added flexibility and a beautiful look, I am in love with... But I will never sell the X-701...



I think you describe the difference well - some of the older Sansuis do indeed offer a 'lusher' sound which is quite intoxicating! Not everyone likes the later Alpha sound if they have become accustomed to the earlier Sansui sound. I do believe that system synergy and personal preference are the determining factors at play here.

I always love putting an older Sansui through its paces in my system, and really enjoy the tonal characteristics that they offer. However, I always gravitate back to the Alphas for outright clarity and accuracy, whilst maintaining some of that Sansui DNA in the sound reproduction.


----------



## UntilThen

Such beautiful pictures and that Kenwood is gorgeous.


----------



## BobG55

petemac110 said:


> Ah... I thought it was the 8006!
> 
> I've had the pleasure of restoring two of these. They are lovely sounding amps with superb build quality. I was particularly happy with how all of the knobs and switchgear cleaned up with some careful cleaning and hard work! The deeply etched lettering on the front face is also a classy touch - no silk-screening here!
> 
> You are very fortunate to have one of these - and the linkage to your older brother makes it all the more special!



Wow, you did a masterful job.  It looks brand new.  The 8006 is not talked about much yet, I've not heard a better vintage amp and I've owned a few and not because it comes from my brother.  It's just such a great sounding amp & I guess it meets my ideal sound requirements.  You've hit the nail right on the head : I'm indeed fortunate to own one.

P.S. Couldn't take a photograph as clear as yours.  I don't own an iPhone or digital camera.  The only apparatus I have to take photographs with is my MacBook Pro photo booth camera and as you can see the photographs are always somewhat blurry.


----------



## BobG55

I'd just like to say how refreshing I find the fact that this thread seems to have found a new life during the past few days.  It's always enjoyable to hear from newer members and to see the photos of these vintage "beauties" shared with the other appreciative members.  Also interesting to read opinions and experiences of others who have a passion for vintage audio gear.  

I want  to thank every body who have contributed to this thread lately.


----------



## UntilThen

For me, it all started with this pocket rocket - Sansui AU-505. On the day I went to collect it, I didn't know what I was in for or the fact that I would be meeting a Sansui restoration guru. That's how I met Pete and saw his room full of Sansui, neatly stack on HiFi racks. Then a week and a half later I met his dad, Skippy and bought the 717. That's how my hobby took a dramatic turn. Never would have thought that I would get into vintage amps.

This 505 at $350 aussie dollars is my best value purchase to date. A few days later I sold off my Schiit Jotunheim for $300.


----------



## Oregonian

Awesome to see this thread explode...............those pics of the Sansui's and that Kenwood 8006 are like vintage heaven!  The 8006 looks BETTER than new...........

Well done gents................keep the pics coming.  And speaking of Kenwood..................though I'm a Pioneer fanboy and own 5 vintage Pioneer amps, this is like my firstborn as it was my first vintage amp - this Kenwood KA-5700 was in a pawn shop and on a whim bought it.............like many of you it became a gateway drug into vintage!  This is one of 8 vintage systems I'm using, scattered around the house and/or work office.  This is my home office - fed from a Dell laptop via a HRT Music Streamer II DAC, with either CA 2.1 system w/8" sub or my Denon MD2000's.


----------



## Oregonian

Next up is a Marantz 2285B I got from a co-worker.............original owner - had it gone through and LED light conversion done, then passed on to my grandson/son in law (Grandson is 4 months old so he's got a while before he realizes what he was just given)...............with my son in law's father's Pioneer PL-41 turntable (also original owner).


----------



## SpeakerBox

Always had a soft spot for Kenwood.  Will never part with my tuner.


----------



## Oregonian

Garage/home gym system...............Pioneer SA-8800 fed by iPad and/or vintage Yamaha CD player into both Cerwin Vega DX-3's and JBL 4311B and a Velodyne 15" sub - what I call true surround sound with a bottom end to die for..................


----------



## Oregonian

And the flagship of the house...............Pioneer Spec 1 preamp/Spec 2 amp/TX-9500II tuner/SA-9800 EQ/PDR-609 CD player/recorder/PL-S50 turntable feeding Klipsch 3.2's.


----------



## Oregonian

Last but not least.............a spare Spec 1 preamp and SA-9900 amp waiting on a location to hook them up. By the way, those Klipsch HP-3 headphones are incredible - like my Pioneer SE Master 1's, they are not talked about much but both are top of the line from my view.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Mar 23, 2019)

I see you are a Four Play fan.  Love their stuff.  Always well recorded!  Too bad we lost Mr. Loeb.


----------



## UntilThen

@Oregonian, what a collection ! Love it. Every single one of them looking so new and well preserved.

Best to check your attic. You might have some hidden gem there. I was very amused reading this.
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/264758-sansui-au-8500-amplifier-what-is-this-worth/


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> I see you are a Four Play fan.  Love their stuff.  Always well recorded!  Too bad we lost Mr. Loeb.



I noticed that too. I've have had that CD for a very long time. Have to dig it out to play it.


----------



## petemac110

Given that I'm on a roll... I might as well share a few more pics of the lovely amps that have graced Casa Del Mac.


A near-mint AU-20000:



 

 


My AU-719 about to be fitted with a rare NOS faceplate!



 


AU-888



 

 


AU-999:



 


AU-7700:



 


The huuuuuge Marantz 2500 - bulk power and an enormous amp (check out the physical comparison to the AU-717!)



 

 

 


I like Japanese beer and huge Japanese Nichicon Gold Tune filter capacitors 



 


Random gear a few years ago - 2 x AU-20000s, BA/CA-2000, BA/CA-F1, AU-X701, AU/TU-719, AU-888 and AU-999, Technics SL-1600 (circa-2016 I think)



 


AU-7700 and AU-7900 physical comparison:



 

 


Possibly the cleanest of the AU-999s that I've worked on - you could eat your dinner off this thing!



 


Very clean AU-7500:



 


AU-D11:



 


AKAI AM-2650:



 


Kenwood KA-6100:


----------



## petemac110

Lovely, lovely stuff @Oregonian!


----------



## UntilThen

Pete, incredible, incredible pictures. That AU-20000 is drool worthy. 

Every single one of them are such desirable models. AU-888, 999, 719. The AU-7700 and AU-7900 look like twins. I'm listening to the 7700 driving the LCD-2f now and it's so beautiful sounding, I'm torn between listening on my headphone or go to the lounge and get a good dose of 717 driving my speakers.


----------



## BobG55 (Mar 23, 2019)

Oregonian said:


> Garage/home gym system...............Pioneer SA-8800 fed by iPad and/or vintage Yamaha CD player into both Cerwin Vega DX-3's and JBL 4311B and a Velodyne 15" sub - what I call true surround sound with a bottom end to die for..................





Oregonian said:


> And the flagship of the house...............Pioneer Spec 1 preamp/Spec 2 amp/TX-9500II tuner/SA-9800 EQ/PDR-609 CD player/recorder/PL-S50 turntable feeding Klipsch 3.2's.





Oregonian said:


> Last but not least.............a spare Spec 1 preamp and SA-9900 amp waiting on a location to hook them up. By the way, those Klipsch HP-3 headphones are incredible - like my Pioneer SE Master 1's, they are not talked about much but both are top of the line from my view.



*I'd venture to say that, you sir, are an ... Audiophile *


----------



## SpeakerBox

I think everybody has sore fingers from all the pictures snapped yesterday.  Great stuff though!


----------



## richard51 (Mar 27, 2019)

Incredible thread! Incredible people! Thanks for the ride! ...


----------



## Mercuttio

I know it's mid-90s, but has anyone heard the Yamaha CX-1 Preamplifier? It's among the best solid state amp headphone jacks I've ever heard, and I bought it for the phono / preamp capabilities otherwise. Now I've spent probably three or four hours just listening to every record I have through it, without even turning on my main stereo. 

There's a whole thread over at Audiokarma devoted to it.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/yamaha-cx-1-thread.790203/


----------



## PhoenixG

WOW! What great gear photos! This thread has really been active the last few days. I'm LOVING all the Sansui fans out here! It make me feel more confident in my choice of my main setup for sure. I don't plan to ever get rid of my Big G (unless that crazy guy on that auction site ever gets his asking price, then I'd consider downsizing to a 22000 eh @Silent One ?)
Pictures for inspiration 



 

 


















.


----------



## Silent One

Spring is in the air like a yard sale! Fantastic contributions...jus WOW.

Currently inside the listening room:
- dropped off W4S Dac-1 w/Super caps @ the _speed shop_ today for Femto clock upgrade.
- having trust issues with my vintage lovely (G-22000). have begun looking at her as trade bait. and my poker face sux! still love her - dearly - but want to upgrade the Shindo Lab side of my rig.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Mar 30, 2019)

Besides the look, feel, build quality, and sound of vintage gear - I have realized there is something else I really appreciate about it.  That is that it takes me back to a time, away from this age of being tethered to my phone and the internet.  It is just pure enjoyment with out a connection to the collective, and without my footprint be tracked by some corporate or government entity.  Those were (and are with vintage) the good old days.

Of course, I wrote this while tethered to the internet!


----------



## Monsterzero

@petemac110 or anyone who has one.

What are your thoughts on the Sansui Eight Deluxe? It gets rave reports just about everywhere I look. Prices have skyrocketed for them specifically in the few years Ive been into vintage gear. Soon it will be outta reach for me price wise.
Ive been lusting for a Mac 4100 for a very long time,and wont be able to buy both any time soon. so I need to decide,for now,which one will be my next receiver.


----------



## UntilThen

Hello Monster, I don't know Sansui Eight Deluxe. I'm sure it's good but now I'm luxuriating to the sound from the AU-505 and AU-717 with the HD800. Such unique Sansui warmth and lush midrange and a treble that is totally agreeable with the ears. Yggdrasil can only connect to 2 amps at a time via RCAs. So I am just enjoying, plugging my headphone jack between the 2.

Next up would be the AU-7700. This has a bit more flexibility. Besides the treble and bass tone controls, there's also midrange. It's a nice Sunday of listening to my favourite music via Tidal HiFi.


----------



## petemac110 (Mar 30, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> @petemac110 or anyone who has one.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the Sansui Eight Deluxe? It gets rave reports just about everywhere I look. Prices have skyrocketed for them specifically in the few years Ive been into vintage gear. Soon it will be outta reach for me price wise.
> Ive been lusting for a Mac 4100 for a very long time,and wont be able to buy both any time soon. so I need to decide,for now,which one will be my next receiver.



The Eight Deluxe is a nice bit of kit. The original Eight is often described as the 'engineer's receiver' due to the build quality and design. The Eight Deluxe displays some cost-cutting measures, but is still a fine receiver and some prefer the sound of the Deluxe. There's really not a lot of difference between them.

There's a Sansui Seven and Eight at the bottom right-hand corner of this pic - I haven't listen to it for a loooong time now.


----------



## UntilThen

jc9394 said:


> How's Sansui AU-7700 or Marantz 2215B for HD800 and LCD-2? No experience on vintage amps.



Answering your question 8 years later. 

Sansui AU-7700 with HD800 and LCD-2f is incredible sounding. Dynamic, punchy and lots of slam. The bass is a killer. My LCD-2f will make way for a LCD-3 in a few days time. All 3 Sansui(s) 505, 7700 and 717 sounds really good with the headphones. It's hard to decide which I like better after nearly 4 weeks.


----------



## UntilThen

I had these 'vintage' Axis speakers since 1998. Vintage enough because they were from the late 80s era. Bought new and it has not left home since. Kept safe from little fingers, they are still as new as day 1. Recently John Reilly the speaker designer came to my place and he was amazed that I still had pairs of LS88 and LS28 in pristine condition. He helped me re-coned the midrange foam surround by taking it to Len Wallis, a reputable downtown audio store in Sydney. The floorstander LS88 is in real Rosewood while the bookshelf LS28 is Rosewood wood veneer. John still owns Axis Loudspeakers. https://axisvoicebox.com/

I had a pair of AxisVoiceBox too but sadly I sold it not too long ago, something I'd probably regret because that's a natural voice monitor.

Anyway today I sat down and listen to these speakers, driven by the Sansui AU-717. Magical. Such an airy, fluid sound with immense scale and breath taking bass weight. Astonishing clarity too. The Sansui is devoid of treble harshness. Crank up the volume and you get a live concert.

The LS88 is 4 ohms and capable of 150w and the Sansui AU-717 had no trouble driving it. Volume is only just a bit north of 9 o'clock.


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> I had these 'vintage' Axis speakers since 1998. Vintage enough because they were from the late 80s era. Bought new and it has not left home since. Kept safe from little fingers, they are still as new as day 1. Recently John Reilly the speaker designer came to my place and he was amazed that I still had pairs of LS88 and LS28 in pristine condition.



Great speakers those - I once had a pair of gen 1 Axis LS-28 with a different Audax woofer and they were fantastic!


----------



## UntilThen

There's my AxisVoiceBox on stands when I still had them. I had 3 LS28. Use one as a centre channel speaker under the TV.


----------



## Rossliew

petemac110 said:


> Given that I'm on a roll... I might as well share a few more pics of the lovely amps that have graced Casa Del Mac.
> 
> 
> A near-mint AU-20000:
> ...


I wish you could ship these to Malaysia


----------



## Blommen

Guys, I am going to try a Sansui Eight tommorow with my newly acquired ZMF Eikons. 

I am thinking on entering the vintage receiver /amp game with this one. Do any of you have any experience with this particular model?


----------



## UntilThen

I had the ZMF Eikon and Atticus for one year bought new but then I sold it. Not because they were bad but I wanted to keep my collection to only 2.  The Eikon is very good and is the one in cherry wood in the picture. I've no doubt that both Eikon and Atticus will sound very good with the Sansui amps or any of the lovely vintage amps listed here.


----------



## UntilThen

I've been using HD800 and LCD-2f with my Sansui(s) and I really like how they sound but yesterday the Audeze LCD-3f came. It is very very good with the Sansui AU-7700. Much better than the LCD-2f. There's more details, the mids is lush and sweet and the bass is so so deep. It just sounded so much smoother than the 2.

I pick up the 3 from someone I met at the local forum at less than half price.  He's selling it to buy a LCD-4. This unit is like new and is less than a year old. It's so well kept there's not a single scratch and the pads are still very cushy.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice!


----------



## UntilThen

So the true test is to compare the AU-7700 with the Burson Audio Play, the latter a dedicated headphone amp that can put out up to 2w of power. It's a pocket rocket, as powerful as the earlier Burson Soloist Mk2 model. The Play also comes with it's own dac, a Sabre32 ESS9018 DAC chip and Xmos USB receiver.

As the Burson Audio Play has a pre-amp out, I hooked it up to the Sansui AU-7700 and proceeded to a A/B comparison. I could plug my LCD-3 jack into either the Play or the 7700.

The Play sounded very detailed and clear. Certainly powerful enough to drive the LCD-3 to ear shattering levels. No wonder there are so many fans reviews of it on Head-Fi. They love it ! Btw my unit came with the V6 Vivid opamp and has a tiny but functional remote control. 

On switching over to the Sansui AU-7700, the sound becomes more organic and romantic while the clarity remains. The deep bass extends how lovely.  It's like switching from my Yggdrasil to my Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge. It's just more analogue and musical sounding. 

The cost of the recapped and restored AU-7700 is the same as the new Burson Audio Play but I love the sound from the 7700 so much more. No contest to my ears. Btw Sansui isn't sponsoring me because the company is no more.


----------



## UntilThen

Truly a very long and interesting thread.... I'm still reading through. The enthusiasm is infectious.

However I need no convincing. The sound on the LCD-3f powered from the Sansui AU-7700 is simply incredible. Swap to HD800 and it's just as good.


----------



## Oregonian

So you Sansui guys inspired me...................picked this up yesterday off a craigslist ad.  Been fully recapped - sounded glorious for the audition (had a turntable and streamed some Daft Punk via Bluetooth) - more impressions after I get it in use.


----------



## UntilThen

Nice ! I thought I was looking at my own amp. 

Love the AU-717.


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> So you Sansui guys inspired me...................picked this up yesterday off a craigslist ad.  Been fully recapped - sounded glorious for the audition (had a turntable and streamed some Daft Punk via Bluetooth) - more impressions after I get it in use.



Guess you're running short on vintage amps Oregonian


----------



## UntilThen

BobG55 said:


> Guess you're running short on vintage amps Oregonian



It's the start of his Sansui collection. It has to match his Pioneer range.


----------



## UntilThen

Blommen said:


> Guys, I am going to try a Sansui Eight tommorow with my newly acquired ZMF Eikons.



So Blommen, did you get to try the Sansui Eight with your Eikon?


----------



## UntilThen

AU-717 is back in the headphone cave and what a glorious tone it is driving these 2 headphones. With Yggy as the source, streaming from Tidal HiFi, I am very satisfied !

I thought that the 717 innards looks great until I saw pictures of the AU-X1.... now I have to unsee the X1.


----------



## Blommen

UntilThen said:


> So Blommen, did you get to try the Sansui Eight with your Eikon?



No, they guy cancelled bc the left channel didn't work all of a sudden. So he will send it to his technician and contact me when it's fixed. 

Very nice of him to be honest about the faults of the unit but still a bummer.
 So I am still on the lookout for a vintage unit, trying to stick to the rule of 40w as a minimum.


----------



## PhoenixG

Oregonian said:


> So you Sansui guys inspired me...................picked this up yesterday off a craigslist ad.  Been fully recapped - sounded glorious for the audition (had a turntable and streamed some Daft Punk via Bluetooth) - more impressions after I get it in use.


Great find Oregonian!! This is just a step on the path to the Sansui side.


----------



## UntilThen

Alright @Jabba , with your alpha-707dr and au-7500, you'll find friends here. 

Have a look at this. Your au-7500 is there.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cal...eceiver-owners.537704/page-1206#post-14854481

and lots of alphas here.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cal...eceiver-owners.537704/page-1204#post-14852490


----------



## Jabba

Thanks @UntilThen

My alpha 707dr has a little issue though, maybe I could get some advice here.
When I activate the loudness button, the sound out of the speakers gets distorted and the lights begin to go on and off rapidly.
Anyone have clues to what the issue could be?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Well, running loudness requires more power due to low end boost, if there is a power supply issue that may expose it.  The distortion and light flickering may also point to this.


----------



## Jabba

Ok, thx for the input @SpeakerBox 
I have to find someone to take a check and service it then.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Jabba said:


> Ok, thx for the input @SpeakerBox
> I have to find someone to take a check and service it then.



No problem.  Just a guess which is really all you can do sight unseen.


----------



## petemac110 (Apr 6, 2019)

Jabba said:


> Thanks @UntilThen
> 
> My alpha 707dr has a little issue though, maybe I could get some advice here.
> When I activate the loudness button, the sound out of the speakers gets distorted and the lights begin to go on and off rapidly.
> Anyone have clues to what the issue could be?



First port of call - a proper internal cleaning of the loudness switch (and other switches at the same time). If this doesn't help, there is a fault in the preamp or power supply circuitry which supplies the preamp stage.

The loudness contour is essentially an EQ circuit which is switched into the signal path when you hit the loudness button. It's very simple and whilst it does place additional load on the power supply when engaged at loud listening levels (due to the additional bass EQing) a healthy amp should not be affected.

You can trouble-shoot whether it's a broader power supply issue by disengaging the loudness switch, running the amp to the same volume levels, ensure the tone controls are switched on, and wind up the bass to the maximum setting. If distortion occurs and the flashing occurs, it might be a power supply issue. If not, it is related to the loudness circuit only.

When you mention the lights going on and off rapidly, are you referring to every LED indicator light on the unit (including source selection, power amp direct selection etc) or just the power indicator (which flashes to show that the amplifier's protection circuit is engaged and the speaker output relay is engaged)? It could be that a fault is tripping the protection circuit.


----------



## UntilThen

Hmm the alpha 707 dr looks a substantial beast putting out 130w into a 8 ohm load. Very nice looking too with rosewood wooden side panel. 

Definitely get it repaired Jabba.


----------



## UntilThen

Will be picking up my first vintage receiver today.... for a cheap cheap price. 

It's the one at the top. I'll put it next to the Sansui, turn off the lights and enjoy the music.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Gotta love the glow of a vintage receiver!


----------



## BobG55

UntilThen said:


> Will be picking up my first vintage receiver today.... for a cheap cheap price.
> 
> It's the one at the top. I'll put it next to the Sansui, turn off the lights and enjoy the music.



Congratulations.  You'll spend many hours enjoying that baby.


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> Gotta love the glow of a vintage receiver!



Oh yeah aren't the glow lovely from those 4, which incidentally is a photo I borrowed off the internet. 

From top to bottom:-
Sony STR 7035
Pioneer SX 626
Marantz 2235B
Kenwood KR 5600


----------



## UntilThen

As lovely as the glow from the tubes of my tube amp.


----------



## UntilThen

First time I check out the phono input of the Sansui AU-717. Now using my spare 'new' turntable. Gift from my wife more than 2 years ago but since the arrival of the Rega Rp8, this has been packed up. It's a Denon DP300f belt driven turntable that had quite a long thread on Audiokarma. This unit has it's own phono preamp but can also be switch off to use whatever phono preamp you so choose. Now it's plugged into the 717's phono input 1. The 717 has 2 phono input, both MM.

It's a great sound. Love it. Vinyl and vintage amps, it's a natural.


----------



## UntilThen

Time passed quickly when you're having fun. I played LPs after LPs and the basic Denon TT is giving me as much enjoyment as Tidal HiFi through Yggdrasil .... in fact more. No doubt attributed to the vintage Sansui AU-717. 

This is a special edition of 'War On Drugs' on double LP green vinyl.

 

Oops it's time to go and pick up the vintage Sony receiver.


----------



## UntilThen

Ahhh  it's all happening together. Got a call from Skippy. He has the plates and binding posts ready for my Sansui AU-717. So I'll be dropping it to him in a few days time.

This is how it will look after it's finished.


----------



## Jabba

petemac110 said:


> First port of call - a proper internal cleaning of the loudness switch (and other switches at the same time). If this doesn't help, there is a fault in the preamp or power supply circuitry which supplies the preamp stage.
> 
> The loudness contour is essentially an EQ circuit which is switched into the signal path when you hit the loudness button. It's very simple and whilst it does place additional load on the power supply when engaged at loud listening levels (due to the additional bass EQing) a healthy amp should not be affected.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great tips @petemac110
What du you recommend to use as cleaner?
I'll test more later today regarding the lights etc. It's been 3-4 months since I tried it so my memory is not 100% shure of the details you asked.


----------



## petemac110

Jabba said:


> Thanks for the great tips @petemac110
> What du you recommend to use as cleaner?
> I'll test more later today regarding the lights etc. It's been 3-4 months since I tried it so my memory is not 100% shure of the details you asked.



You'll need to perform some disassembly of the amp to clean the switches. I recommend DeOxIt D5 spray. Use sparingly, as it will flush out any damping grease and the like if you spray like a madman.

The 707DR should be similar to this 907MR when you remove the front face:


----------



## SpeakerBox

DeoxIt is what you want as a cleaner.  There is a great thread over in audio karma describing how to use it.


----------



## UntilThen

BobG55 said:


> Congratulations.  You'll spend many hours enjoying that baby.



You must be psychic or you have experience with the Sony STR 7035. I had to travel about 45 mins to the seller's place but it was worth it. A most friendly guy. Even let me listen to his other gear.

The Sony receiver is in a very good condition for it's age but it was the sound that really make me smile. This 1975 Sony is as musical as the Sansui(s) that I have. I brought along my LCD-3f to audition and listen to Dire Straits 'Money For Nothing'. Well it's not much money for something great.  We tried vinyl, CD and the tuner. Everything works. There's nothing wrong with this unit. Function like a well oiled machinery.

It's 24w and should drive some small speakers well. The seller demoed it with a pair of Wharferdale CR-10 and it was sweet sounding with that vintage bass. For my purpose of using this for headphones, it make the hd800 and lcd-3f sound really good. Who would have thought that $170 (aussie dollars) would bring so much joy and sweet music.


----------



## UntilThen

Night time view.


----------



## Rossliew

@UntilThen next port of call is the beastly Pioneer SX-1250/1280 receiver. You need to have one of these. Power anything and everything you may have


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> For my purpose of using this for headphones, it make the hd800 and lcd-3f sound really good. Who would have thought that $170 (aussie dollars) would bring so much joy and sweet music.



I agree completely. Vintage receivers simply cannot be beaten for a myriad of reasons. However....
None of my receivers can compete with my GOTL. Its not that the receivers sound bad. They dont. The GOTL just simply sounds much better. But then again im talking about a 1500.00 amp with over 500.00(and soon that figure will double) of tubes vs. $75.00 for my 881.

Im quite curious to see what you think once you get your GOTL back.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> @UntilThen next port of call is the beastly Pioneer SX-1250/1280 receiver. You need to have one of these. Power anything and everything you may have



I can't see Pioneer SX-1280 anymore. It's extinct. 

All I see is this VU meters for it. 
 

But there's this Sansui G-33000 receiver for a staggering US$9950. There is no way I'll buy that. Out of my league.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SANSUI-...m1a791302c9:g:cskAAOSwjnpbecV6&frcectupt=true


----------



## JazzVinyl

Headphones in the 70's were awful sounding affairs.
Everyone listened to and adored thier speakers in the 70's....sources were far from perfect....(most folks had) a very mediocre turntable and a very 
modest performing tape deck....


----------



## UntilThen

Meanwhile my new high-end system playing 'Mother'. 

This Sony was suppose to be a night light but my word the sound is too good for that. It's a bit brighter and yet warm, with a lovely lushness. Truly the 70s is the Golden Age of Audio.



_Mother do you think they'll drop the bomb?
Mother do you think they'll like this song?
Mother do you think they'll try to break my balls?
Ooh, ah
Mother should I build the wall?
Mother should I run for President?
Mother should I trust the government?
Mother will they put me in the firing mine?
Ooh ah,
Is it just a waste of time?

_


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> I agree completely. Vintage receivers simply cannot be beaten for a myriad of reasons. However....
> None of my receivers can compete with my GOTL. Its not that the receivers sound bad. They dont. The GOTL just simply sounds much better. But then again im talking about a 1500.00 amp with over 500.00(and soon that figure will double) of tubes vs. $75.00 for my 881.
> 
> Im quite curious to see what you think once you get your GOTL back.



I see it as the best of both worlds. Vintage amps / receivers and tube amps, both of which I love. Also a return to vinyl. I think I am going back to the future!


----------



## UntilThen

I do believe in the pairing of old with new though. These 2 items are from different era and vastly different in price but it's a perfect marriage. Yggdrasil gets close to sounding like vinyl with uncanny resolution and details.


----------



## UntilThen

petemac110 said:


> The 707DR should be similar to this 907MR when you remove the front face:



Pete, that's an amazing looking 907MR. Looks so new. Is it yours?


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> Pete, that's an amazing looking 907MR. Looks so new. Is it yours?



No, that's a file photo. A 907MR is all boxed up at Dad's place and awaiting it's debut at Casa Del Mac very soon.


----------



## UntilThen

petemac110 said:


> No, that's a file photo. A 907MR is all boxed up at Dad's place and awaiting it's debut at Casa Del Mac very soon.



I'll talk nicely to your dad to pay a visit to Casa Del Mac.


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Im quite curious to see what you think once you get your GOTL back.



You know I love my GOTL. I gave it the best photo. 

 

But now I have the AU-717 back in the hot seat and it is BETTER than the Sony STR 7035. Goosebumps better. It's visceral and hauntingly beautiful.


----------



## Blommen

Monsterzero said:


> I agree completely. Vintage receivers simply cannot be beaten for a myriad of reasons. However....
> None of my receivers can compete with my GOTL. Its not that the receivers sound bad. They dont. The GOTL just simply sounds much better. But then again im talking about a 1500.00 amp with over 500.00(and soon that figure will double) of tubes vs. $75.00 for my 881.
> 
> Im quite curious to see what you think once you get your GOTL back.



Have you tried tube preamp into vintage amp/receiver? I am wondering if that would be the best of both worlds...


----------



## UntilThen

Blommen said:


> Have you tried tube preamp into vintage amp/receiver? I am wondering if that would be the best of both worlds...



A lot of the good vintage amps / receiver have very good pre-amp section and they are perfectly matched. Don't need the help of tube preamp. 

Read through the thread. A lot of veteran audio hobbyist have very good modern day gear but they get real satisfaction from their vintage gear.

Equally important is the source and speakers or headphones. I've got the Rega Rp8 on deck now and there's a huge improvement in dynamics and resolution, as well as musicality.


----------



## Monsterzero

Blommen said:


> Have you tried tube preamp into vintage amp/receiver? I am wondering if that would be the best of both worlds...



I actually have pre-outs on my Glenn,and as was mentioned above,I dont think my receivers benefit much from it. I mainly got the pre-outs in case I ever decided to sell my GOTL(dont ever see that happening,sorry)as an added perk.


----------



## Blommen

Alright, I guess that saves me some money 

I just read on audiokarma that if you wanted some "tube magic" in your system you could pair a tube-preamp with a ss power amplifier and get the best of both worlds. But if that ain't the case then vintage amp it is!


----------



## UntilThen

Earlier Sansui(s) have a tube like warm sound. No need for more tubiness. For a neutral SS power amp then yeah, add in a tube preamp or even a tube dac could tailor it to the sound you prefer.

Meanwhile this is one of the best rendition of DSOTM I've heard. With LCD-3f.


----------



## Blommen

UntilThen said:


> Earlier Sansui(s) have a tube like warm sound. No need for more tubiness. For a neutral SS power amp then yeah, add in a tube preamp or even a tube dac could tailor it to the sound you prefer.
> 
> Meanwhile this is one of the best rendition of DSOTM I've heard. With LCD-3f.



Looks like a sweet setup!

I was more thinking of the soundstage and 3-dimensionality that tubes bring, not the warmth.


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 8, 2019)

Blommen said:


> Looks like a sweet setup!
> 
> I was more thinking of the soundstage and 3-dimensionality that tubes bring, not the warmth.



Thank you. If you think these non-tube set up are lacking in soundstage and 3 dimensionality, then you're forgetting that these vintage amps / receivers were produced in the golden age of audio - that's the 70s. Before cost cutting and bottom line comes into the picture and quality suffers.

The Sansui AU-717 soundstage is as wide as the picture below.  In the case of headphones, it's headphone dependent. Need a wide soundstage, get the hd800 which I have. Need more intimacy with full body tone, get the LCD-3f which I have also.

As for 3 dimensionality, the Sansui AU-717 excel in that as much as my modern day $4000 Redgum Rgi120ENR black series or the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP integrated tube amp or the Schiit Ragnarok that I have for one year.

So you need to hear it for yourself.

This is the wide soundstage I'm talking about. It's wide enough for me. 


This is the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP integrated amp that I had before. Uses eight KT88 or EL34 power tubes. The Sansui AU-717 does not loose out to the Primaluna in terms of soundstage and 3-dimensionality. Not at all.


----------



## richard51 (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks UntilThen, your experience and comparison are revelatory, and I guess dissipate some doubts among us....

I have plenty of soundstage and details and warm sound with my 2 Sansui but I never had a top of the line tube amplifiers to compare with...


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> Thanks UntilThen, your experience and comparison are revelatory, and I guess dissipate some doubts among us....
> 
> I have plenty of soundstage and details and warm sound with my 2 Sansui but I never had a top of the line tube amplifiers to compare with...



Thanks Richard. Mine is but a small voice. There are many members here whose gear far far exceed mine. Particularly skylab. And you should see Pete's lineup of Sansui alphas.


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> I have plenty of soundstage and details and warm sound with my 2 Sansui but I never had a top of the line tube amplifiers to compare with...



I like that AU-7700 which we have. It's a really good tone with headphones and speakers. No wonder that guy gave it such a lavish review and praise. I have not heard your x701 alpha but Pete tells me it's very good. So someday ..... an alpha.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-sansui-au-7700-amplifier


----------



## richard51

The alpha is more " modern" sound, less tubey, but the 2 are so good,so different, that I cannot sell one...I can live happy with any one of the 2....But the 700 is more flexible and his sound is so gorgeous that I listen mostly to it for the moment....I prefer his slightly darker sound with my gear...


----------



## UntilThen

That's alright to have preference for both. I started off loving a warm, lush signature. Then I crave for more details, resolution and a more neutral tone. Now I am swinging back to the lush and romantic tone but I still like the details. It's no surprise that I have both hd800 and LCD-3f. Still have a modified hd650 which I hardly use.


----------



## Rossliew

Modded hd650 u say? What does it do better than the regular one?


----------



## PhoenixG

Ahhhhh, I'm really thinking we're on the same sonic wavelength. I'm the proud owner of a number of similar vintage Sony receivers (mostly str-6120's), as well as a sansui G-33000. I love the sansui and it is truly amazing, but the sony's are 99% as good for 10% as much money, so I keep them as hot spares for my main system and as the amp in my secondary systems. I also love to give them to friends I convince to get into vintage hifi as the 6120 is definitely an end game unit for most people. It's just that good of a receiver family, and an excellent value.



UntilThen said:


> Night time view.





UntilThen said:


> I can't see Pioneer SX-1280 anymore. It's extinct.
> 
> All I see is this VU meters for it.
> 
> ...


----------



## UntilThen

Glad I'm not the lone voice regarding the Sony. At the price I paid, the lovely tone is almost too good to be true. Your 6 series is better regarded than the 7 series I think. Sony of that era are truly under-rated.

That Sansui G-33000 of yours has a asking price of almost 10 grand now.


----------



## UntilThen

Rossliew said:


> Modded hd650 u say? What does it do better than the regular one?



It opens up the heavens and let the light shine in. 

The top end is brighter and has more details and the mid and bass are tighten up. However I feel I have butchered the headphone with that mod. See the sound proofing material used inside? Never will I mod another headphone again.


----------



## richard51

Oops! I had modded all my headphones...To my liking and for the best!... Then Like Piaf said: " I dont regret anything, no, i do not regret anything"


----------



## Rossliew

UntilThen said:


> It opens up the heavens and let the light shine in.
> 
> The top end is brighter and has more details and the mid and bass are tighten up. However I feel I have butchered the headphone with that mod. See the sound proofing material used inside? Never will I mod another headphone again.


Sure looks naked and ugly.. Does dust get inside there?


----------



## UntilThen

Dust getting in will make it more vintage.


----------



## Rossliew

Then u can sell it for a million bucks on ebay


----------



## UntilThen

@Oregonian where is your 717 and impressions !


----------



## Jabba

Anyone tested Sony 7025 reciever headphone out? Preferable on LCD series?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Speaking of @Skylab, I wonder how he and @moodyrn (thread starter) are doing?  They have not posted for a while and I would be interested in any changes they may have made to their gear.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Apr 8, 2019)

Blommen said:


> Looks like a sweet setup!
> 
> I was more thinking of the soundstage and 3-dimensionality that tubes bring, not the warmth.



If you want something vintage that has that 3D tubiness, A restored Fisher 400 will give you that.  It has been described as holographic over on AK and other sites.  Mine sounds that way via LS3/5As.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Just awaiting one more change to the Fisher 400 receiver.  That will be the addition of Sovtek 12ax7lps tubes throughout (9 of them) which should improve the SQ even more.


----------



## Skylab

SpeakerBox said:


> Speaking of @Skylab, I wonder how he and @moodyrn (thread starter) are doing?  They have not posted for a while and I would be interested in any changes they may have made to their gear.



I read this thread a lot but mostly just like posts. One of the nice things about buying a TOTL vintage amp/receiver  and then having it completely restored/recapped is that one gets to enjoy it for a very long period of time without swapping it out for something else. I enjoy my pioneer SX 1980 on a daily basis and still absolutely love it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Skylab said:


> I read this thread a lot but mostly just like posts. One of the nice things about buying a TOTL vintage amp/receiver  and then having it completely restored/recapped is that one gets to enjoy it for a very long period of time without swapping it out for something else. I enjoy my pioneer SX 1980 on a daily basis and still absolutely love it.



Agree 100%.  My rebuilt SX-1250 is also in use on a daily basis.  Audio nirvana!


----------



## Monsterzero (Apr 8, 2019)

Blommen said:


> I just read on audiokarma that if you wanted some "tube magic" in your system you could pair a tube-preamp with a ss power amplifier and get the best of both worlds.



It depends on the rest of your system,the tubes you have,the sound youre looking for,the sound of your receiver,etc.....

I have two main systems,both of which can run either a vintage receiver,or a tube amp. My headphone and nearfield system gets the bulk of the work. I use it 16+ hours per day,7 days per week,usually for low volume level listening thru speakers while I work. Most of my serious listening happens in the late evening into the early AM,either thru my Focal Aria 905s or headphones. Of my headphone collection the only one where I prefer the SS over tubes are my AKG K240 Sextetts. For whatever reason they simply sound better to my ears thru my vintage gear vs my OTL. The rest of my headphones get the tube treatment. 

Not all vintage receivers have the same sound signature. My Sansui 881 is already warm and to not over do that warmth a neutral/bright tube roll would be needed. However on my Akai,Kenwood and Onkyo,they all have a brighter sound,so a warmer tube roll would be preferred. 
To be honest I havent done enough tube pre-amping to make a definitive conclusion,but personally I like to keep the SS and tube amps separate,so I can enjoy either/or depending upon headphones in use and my mood. YMMV.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I got the Fisher 400 in large part because the HD600s sounded too thin on SS for my tastes.  They are greatly improved on the Fisher tubes.


----------



## Oregonian

UntilThen said:


> @Oregonian where is your 717 and impressions !



So I listened to it from a CD player and from an iPad via a NuForce iDo DAC through my Pioneer SE Master 1 headphones and am quite impressed..............the warm sound and bass was exceptional, much like most of my higher end/higher wattage Pioneers (SA-8800, SA-9900 and Spec system (Spec 1 preamp/Spec 2 amp).  

Wanted to hook it up in my garage gym system (currently Spec 1 preamp/SA-8800 amp) but didn't have the time to pull the SA-8800 out as time got away from me, between having my 5 month old grandson for a day this weekend and my father in law moving in.  But I did put it in use last night in my music room TV system as the amp being fed from a Yamaha RX-670 front end (preamp) with an iPhone 5 feeding it again through a NuForce iDo DAC into a pair of Polk Audio 5JR speakers and Polk sub on the B speaker channel.  Also played some streaming music via Pandora out of the Smart TV.   Wow.............great great sound.  For now I'm leaving it in the TV system - the black face matches the Yamaha perfectly and really makes those Polk speakers sing!  

Pic coming soon................for now here's an update on the garage gym system - just added in the Spec 1 preamp to this last week before the Sansui hit my radar.  This garage system sounds incredible - with 4 speakers and a 12" Velodyne sub, truly a surround system that blows away the 5.1 systems you buy at Best Buy.


----------



## Jabba

Very nice @Oregonian 
Newer heard the spec-1 pre, but used a spec-2 together with a top Onkyo Integra pre (can't remember the model). 
The spec-2 delivers some serious grunt.
And it sounds amazing to.


----------



## Oregonian

Jabba said:


> Very nice @Oregonian
> Newer heard the spec-1 pre, but used a spec-2 together with a top Onkyo Integra pre (can't remember the model).
> The spec-2 delivers some serious grunt.
> And it sounds amazing to.



Agreed on both the grunt and sound - mine was bench tested at 309 wpc (rated at 250) when I had the cold solder issue reflowed about 4 years ago.  It's kind of silly, right?  We use maybe 10 wpc (if that) and the sound is deafening.  Kinda like an 800 hp motor in a street car.........I do like watching those needles on the Spec 2 amp dance though.  I should talk...........my 2001 Dodge 2500 has around 400 hp and over 800 lb/ft of torque and though I don't ever really "use" the full amount of power it's fun to drive at the lower end of the power.  

This is Spec 1 # 2 in my house - needed a home and figured why not put it in use?   You *all* inspire me - it all started with Skylab's pics from a few years ago.


----------



## PhoenixG

The great thing about this journey is that feeling when you've reached a good point along the way and you can finally stop annoying the wife by swapping out components constantly haha.
That being said, I still am always on the hunt for new items to try out, so the journey continues. 



UntilThen said:


> Glad I'm not the lone voice regarding the Sony. At the price I paid, the lovely tone is almost too good to be true. Your 6 series is better regarded than the 7 series I think. Sony of that era are truly under-rated.
> 
> That Sansui G-33000 of yours has a asking price of almost 10 grand now.





Skylab said:


> I read this thread a lot but mostly just like posts. One of the nice things about buying a TOTL vintage amp/receiver  and then having it completely restored/recapped is that one gets to enjoy it for a very long period of time without swapping it out for something else. I enjoy my pioneer SX 1980 on a daily basis and still absolutely love it.





SpeakerBox said:


> Agree 100%.  My rebuilt SX-1250 is also in use on a daily basis.  Audio nirvana!


----------



## UntilThen

Wow, woke up to see the thread revived.  Welcome back @Skylab. When I started in 2015 on headphones, I read a lot of your reviews, especially the tube amps (Darkvoice 337, WA22, Single Power, etc) comparisons and HD800, T1 and LCD-3 reviews. I even bought a pair of NOS Tung Sol 6as7g from you.

Now I see pictures of your den in this thread, with the amazing collection of vintage gear.


----------



## UntilThen

Oregonian, thanks for the feedback. You have a lovely collection of Pioneer spec-1 and spec-2 separates. Very rare indeed. Glad you're liking the Sansui AU-717. The internal design is lovely with it's dual mono power supplies.


----------



## UntilThen

PhoenixG said:


> The great thing about this journey is that feeling when you've reached a good point along the way and you can finally stop annoying the wife by swapping out components constantly haha.
> That being said, I still am always on the hunt for new items to try out, so the journey continues.



Too right. With that Sansui G-33000, it should have been the end. 

Several times along this journey, I too felt that it should have been the end for me and that I should just kick back and listen to music. Like in 2017, when I bought Yggdrasil, Ragnarok, HD800 and LCD-2f new from Addicted To Audio. Then something comes along and gets my attention. Like the Glenn OTL amp and these lovely sounding Sansui(s). And so the journey continues...


----------



## UntilThen

Jabba said:


> Anyone tested Sony 7025 reciever headphone out? Preferable on LCD series?



Ah that's like the younger brother of my Sony STR 7035, which sounded great with my LCD-3f. 

The 7035 is 24w and the 7025 is 18w and if you're just using it for headphones, that's a lot! Of course for headphone listening, there's a resistor to step it down so it doesn't blow your precious headphone drivers.

Here's a review of the 7025 and she has an immaculate looking 7025.


----------



## Jabba (Apr 8, 2019)

I can get 7025 in mint for a nice price, so I'm considering adding another vintage to the collection. 
I'm testing the lcd3f with the Sansui 7500 now.
It's a excellent sounding combination.


----------



## UntilThen

You have a very nice AU-7500. The Audeze LCD-3f sounds great on a vintage amp. I've not stop marvelling at the bass this headphone produces and I've had it less than 2 weeks ago.

A minty Sony STR 7025 would be a good addition to your collection. I'm listening now to the LCD-3f through the Sony STR 7035. Playing 'Private Investigations' by Dire Straits, the pluck of the guitar chords and the impact of the drums is as good as some of the best system I've heard..... well nearly. 

Playing 'Brothers In Arms' by Dire Straits, I'm transported to the aftermath of the battlefield, smoke still rising in the distance and the unique voice of Mark Knopfler and his amazing guitar works. All these from the budget friendly Sony and LCD-3f.... and a little help from Yggy.


----------



## Jabba

Thx @UntilThen 
The lcd3f is a marvelous headphone, awesome sound.
The 7500 didn't mate well with the he560 when I tried though.
The he560 turned into a bass monster, seems as a mismatch between these 2.
Latest Dido in MQA from Tidal on 7500+LCD sounds just magical.


----------



## UntilThen

The Sony STR 7035 is right at home with this setup. Adam Granduciel's voice coming through beautifully on the song 'Pain'.


----------



## Jabba

How will you compare the Sony to your Sansui's with the lcd's @UntilThen ?


----------



## UntilThen (Apr 8, 2019)

I've a hard time articulating the differences between my Sansui AU-505, AU-7700 and AU-717. Add the Sony to the mix, I'll have to rake my brains. 

The one thing that stood out with listening to the LCD-3f with these vintage amps / receiver is the visceral impact. You feel it in your gut. It's not rational but you know you hear a lovely tone.

To be more precise, in terms of scale of brightness to warmness, this is how I hear it:-

Bright                                      Warm
Sony STR 7035 > Sansui AU7700 > AU-505 > AU-717

None of these can be classified as bright. It's just relative to each other. Lest you think that the warm is a muddy kind of warm, it is far from it. It is the quality kind of warmth, with good sprinkling of clarity and details droplets.


----------



## lantian

Got myself a Pioneer SA 720 for 50 bucks, what a fantastic amp, great speaker and headphone amplification, though had to clean all the pots and buttons with isopropil, working great afterwards.


----------



## UntilThen

It is most satisfying buying a vintage amp for cheap and finding it sound really good with your headphones and speakers. I hadn't post for a day because I was just quietly enjoying listening to music.

Listening to Katie Melua sing 'What a wonderful world' with Eva Cassidy on the LCD-3 with Sony STR 7035 is just pure gold.


----------



## richard51 (Apr 10, 2019)

There is one feature of my Sansui AU 7700 that I underestimated when I bought it, and that is now absolutely wonderful : The loudness control of high and low boost... When you listen in nearfield at very low sound level with the right treated speakers, details retrieval and imaging are so astounding and always perfect, that i listen less often  to my stupendous AKG 340 and 701 and they sound amazing after all my tweaks...


----------



## UntilThen

I've been guilty of loving the loudness switch on the 7700 more than I should. It just sound good on my headphones. 

With the other amps less so but on the 7700 I just love setting it on.


----------



## DRHamp

Ok guys, I'm feeling a little "ear envy" as I read about the awesome sounds you're hearing from your Sansui rigs.  My AU-317 and 7900 are both out for recap/refurb and I'm missing out on the experience.  On the bright side, I have a Sherwood S-8800 due to arrive Friday and that should hold me over until the amps are back.


----------



## SpeakerBox

DRHamp said:


> Ok guys, I'm feeling a little "ear envy" as I read about the awesome sounds you're hearing from your Sansui rigs.  My AU-317 and 7900 are both out for recap/refurb and I'm missing out on the experience.  On the bright side, I have a Sherwood S-8800 due to arrive Friday and that should hold me over until the amps are back.



I have never met a vintage Sherwood receiver that I did not like.  My favorites: S-7100A and S-7300.  Have not had the pleasure of hearing a S-8800 as of yet.


----------



## UntilThen

@DRHamp your vintage amps collection is growing. The Sherwood might surprise you as being more than a temporary stand-in for your Sansui(s). 

Nice vintage look with the wooden casing. Looking forward to impressions and pics.


----------



## Jabba

UntilThen said:


> It is most satisfying buying a vintage amp for cheap and finding it sound really good with your headphones and speakers. I hadn't post for a day because I was just quietly enjoying listening to music.
> 
> Listening to Katie Melua sing 'What a wonderful world' with Eva Cassidy on the LCD-3 with Sony STR 7035 is just pure gold.



When you realised you found pure gold, wonderful feeling. Good to hear @UntilThen

You make it very hard to resist the str-7025 I could buy.
Must resist..



DRHamp said:


> Ok guys, I'm feeling a little "ear envy" as I read about the awesome sounds you're hearing from your Sansui rigs.  My AU-317 and 7900 are both out for recap/refurb and I'm missing out on the experience.  On the bright side, I have a Sherwood S-8800 due to arrive Friday and that should hold me over until the amps are back.



Never heard a vintage Sherwood, please update with your impressions.


----------



## Oregonian

lantian said:


> Got myself a Pioneer SA 720 for 50 bucks, what a fantastic amp, great speaker and headphone amplification, though had to clean all the pots and buttons with isopropil, working great afterwards.



Great price!  I have a Pioneer SA-608 (with the fluoroscan meters) that I love driving my HE-400 via speaker taps in my family room head fi system.  

By the way, Deoxit D5 is the preferred chemical to use over isopropyl alcohol.


----------



## UntilThen

Jabba said:


> When you realised you found pure gold, wonderful feeling. Good to hear @UntilThen
> 
> You make it very hard to resist the str-7025 I could buy.
> Must resist..



Only you can decide what you like best by listening to it and I don't mean listening for an hour at the shop. Live with the gear for a while. In 2017, I found gold too with this setup. I was over the moon. I had to audition the Ragnarok vs Violectric V281 3 times. Yes I went back to the shop 3 times and the salesman was patient to set it up for me to evaluate with hd800 and LCD-2f. Had I bought the V281, it would have save me $300. In the end, I bought the Rag as well as Yggy and the 2 headphones.

You can't deny that Yggy and Rggy looks good as a combo and it runs in balance mode. Sounds good too.

But here I am 2 years later.... stumbled on vintage amps and loving it just as much, probably more and for a lot less money.


----------



## DRHamp

Hard to say, but the single most important component in my chain may be my Yggy - I love my Yggy and it loves the vintage amps.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Apr 10, 2019)

In addition to the Sherwood S-7100A that I mentioned earlier, there is another vintage receiver that sounds just as good and like the 7100A punches way above its wattage.  That would be the Harman Kardon 330 A/B.  These units are wonderfully warm and detailed just like the 7100A.  Both the 330 A/B and the 7100A have capacitor coupled outputs.  I have owned both but held on to my 330A for reasons of nostalgia as I had one in my teens.  Mine is pictured below - totally recapped and output transistors replaced.  This is my main HP listening station.


----------



## jaywillin

I have a 330c, which I love, it's headphone out is awesome, I really don't use my Project Starlight amp nearly as much as I used to, in fact, I might just sell it


----------



## SpeakerBox

jaywillin said:


> I have a 330c, which I love, it's headphone out is awesome, I really don't use my Project Starlight amp nearly as much as I used to, in fact, I might just sell it



The HP outs on the HK are awesome and I have found it to mate particularly well with my Sony MDR-V6 and MDR-7506.


----------



## jaywillin

SpeakerBox said:


> The HP outs on the HK are awesome and I have found it to mate particularly well with my Sony MDR-V6 and MDR-7506.



I have the Grado GH2, and the Massdrop HD 6xx, and like I said, stellar with both ! I'm a happy camper


----------



## UntilThen

DRHamp said:


> Hard to say, but the single most important component in my chain may be my Yggy - I love my Yggy and it loves the vintage amps.



Yggy has been the most important purchase for me (besides the Rega Rp8). I've no doubt Yggy enhanced the listening experience for me in my journey with WA5LE, GOTL, Ragnarok and now the vintage amps.


----------



## UntilThen

@SpeakerBox you have a very nice range of vintage amps and that Harmon Kardon 330 A/B is a lovely looking vintage gear.

My Sansui AU-505 is also capacitor coupled while the others are direct coupled. So Pete explained to me. I agree with his summary.

_'Whilst the Sansui-AU505 is lovely and drives headphones really well in my opinion, it will probably sound quite different to your current Schiit amp. I haven't heard the Schiit, but I expect that being a direct-coupled design, it has a vice-like grip over the drivers. In comparison, this early model, capacitor-coupled Sansui is not going to be as tight sounding, and it will also be a tad warmer in its presentation. The midrange really is lovely though - this is probably the biggest strength of these Sansuis. I adore their voicing!'_


----------



## UntilThen

Sony STR 7035 and Wharfedale Diamond 10.1. 

Now this is what I call cheap and good. John Darko reviewed the speakers 9 years ago. https://darko.audio/2010/08/wharfedale-diamond-101-standmount-loudspeaker/


----------



## SpeakerBox (Apr 11, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> @SpeakerBox you have a very nice range of vintage amps and that Harmon Kardon 330 A/B is a lovely looking vintage gear.



The sound signature of the 330A is much as you described with great mids and full bass. I am now very happy with combination of HK330A, Fisher 400, and Pioneer SX-1250 (all have been restored), but it has been a long journey to this point.  I am 63 and have been around the audio block a few times.  I started with a Bogen tube amp that my uncle gave me as a kid (he was a audio engineer - loved that guy!).  In my teens I moved into the HK330A (not sure what happened to that one - but I did not fully appreciate what I had).  Then - at around age 18 I got the high end bug.  My first sort of HE piece was a SAE 2400L.  That amp formed the base of a dorm room system with my audio fanatic room mate.  The system consisted of a Technics TT with Grado cartridge, a DB Systems DB-1A preamp, the SAE 2400L, and a pair of Quad ESL 57s (not kidding!).  We were engineers - had to have the best!  When we got tired of hauling the quads around I built a pair of LS3/5A clones (still have them and can post plans if anyone wants them - they sound very good with the Fisher).  Later on I went through lots of stuff including Amber ST70, Proceed Amp 3, and Jeff Rowland M1s used as mono blocks.  Also had Magnepan MG1s for a while then designed my own speakers which I still have along with the LS3/5As.  Then I stumbled on this thread and my zeal for the vintage stuff came back to life.  Sold everything else and will stay with my vintage gear.  Audio is a great hobby!


----------



## Jabba

Cool to hear your hifi history @SpeakerBox


----------



## Oregonian

Here's the Sansui AU-717 and Yamaha pairing in the TV system...............


----------



## UntilThen

Quite an audio journey there for you @SpeakerBox . Thanks for sharing.

The Fisher 400 and Pioneer SX 1250 are covered pieces.

Any favourite amongst the 3 or do you just like them all for the variety?


----------



## UntilThen

Oregonian said:


> Here's the Sansui AU-717 and Yamaha pairing in the TV system...............



Your TV must sound real good now.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Apr 11, 2019)

@UntilThen I would have to say that overall the 1250 is the best.  Very detailed sound which I like and the build quality is off the charts good.  The only thing you have to watch with the 1250 is that it can sound bright with the wrong speakers or headphones.  System matching is very important with that receiver.  I have voiced the speakers I built to match it.


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> @UntilThen I would have to say that overall the 1250 is the best.  Very detailed sound which I like and the build quality is off the charts good.  The only thing you have to watch with the 1250 is that it can sound bright with the wrong speakers or headphones.  System matching is very important with that receiver.  I have voiced the speakers I built to match it.



I've no idea how the Pioneer SX-1250, SX-1280 and SX-1980 sound until I watch the videos of this ad of the SX-1980 in the local forum today. This is high end sound to my ears. Superb clarity and sound really good.

https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/282365-pioneer-sx-1980-monster-receiver/


----------



## SpeakerBox

UntilThen said:


> This is high end sound to my ears. Superb clarity and sound really good.



I think most of us Pioneer fans would agree!


----------



## DRHamp

Here's the Sherwood S-8800 - got it today.  - it sounds very good out of the Yggy and the FM is good.  I haven't opened it up yet but need to do that soon.   A couple of obervations out of the box.
1.  Only light working at turn-on is the tuner signal light - no other lighting
2.  Balance control is reversed R is L and vice-versa - it is also very noisy
3.  The wood veneer cabinet is very nice, but I don't think it's original to the unit (based on pictures I've seen)
4.  It sounds very good in it's current state- warmer than the Mjolnir 2 (this is with about 30 min of listening)
5.  While it meets my expectations, I probably won't buy another "project amp or receiver"


----------



## UntilThen

Beautiful @DRHamp. Amp is in very good condition. You don't need anymore. Get it restored and enjoy it. Next get small speakers for it. You'll be surprised how good it sound through a pair of bookshelf speakers.


----------



## fotomeow

DRHamp said:


> Here's the Sherwood S-8800 - got it today.  - it sounds very good out of the Yggy and the FM is good.  I haven't opened it up yet but need to do that soon.   A couple of obervations out of the box.
> 1.  Only light working at turn-on is the tuner signal light - no other lighting
> 2.  Balance control is reversed R is L and vice-versa - it is also very noisy
> 3.  The wood veneer cabinet is very nice, but I don't think it's original to the unit (based on pictures I've seen)
> ...



Looks good DR.
 I agree, one project at a time (something I’m still working on!). 
Wood case looks great
Any tubes in her? “Warmer than Mjolnir2”
Is this just for headphones or speakers too?


----------



## UntilThen

Putting my amps through my small speakers. Rolling with Sansui AU-7700 and Wharfedale Diamond 10.1. There's something about the 7700 tone that makes me love it. It's neither too warm or too clinical.


----------



## fotomeow

UntilThen said:


> I've no idea how the Pioneer SX-1250, SX-1280 and SX-1980 sound until I watch the videos of this ad of the SX-1980 in the local forum today. This is high end sound to my ears. Superb clarity and sound really good.
> 
> https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/282365-pioneer-sx-1980-monster-receiver/





SpeakerBox said:


> I think most of us Pioneer fans would agree!



I enjoyed a Pioneer SX690 for about a year before she petered out probably caps. I was totally impressed with this “smaller” unit. Sounded better than the same vintage Yamaha model which was bigger and heavier. 

The SX690 wattage ratings seemed conservative - for what she could do. Probably not too difficult, but I don’t have time to refurb her, so she’s on Craigslist now.


----------



## UntilThen

Now with my 20 years old Axis LS28 speakers. It's in as new condition. It is well look after.  The LS28 sounds way better than the Diamond 10.1.


----------



## UntilThen

fotomeow said:


> I enjoyed a Pioneer SX690 for about a year before she petered out probably caps. I was totally impressed with this “smaller” unit. Sounded better than the same vintage Yamaha model which was bigger and heavier.
> 
> The SX690 wattage ratings seemed conservative - for what she could do. Probably not too difficult, but I don’t have time to refurb her, so she’s on Craigslist now.



That Pioneer SX690 would have been good but I've never had a vintage Pioneer. So help me that I don't buy one of each brand or I'll be send to the dog's house. I love all the 4 vintage amps that I have now. Even the small cheap ones. Good with headphones and speakers. What more can I ask for. 

The Sansui AU-717 was send to Skippy for binding posts installation yesterday.

You have some good gear there in your signature. I have Dynaudio Esotec 242 gt speakers installed in my car.


----------



## richard51

UntilThen said:


> Putting my amps through my small speakers. Rolling with Sansui AU-7700 and Wharfedale Diamond 10.1. There's something about the 7700 tone that makes me love it. It's neither too warm or too clinical.



I am very happy to read that,because it is what I think about my Au 7700 and the reason why I love it so much...I even prefer it to my x series Sansui that is more analytical than my 7700 but without being dry for sure the x series are top of the line... It is only my actual choice with my actual speakers...You opinion is confirming my bias...My best to you...


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> I am very happy to read that,because it is what I think about my Au 7700 and the reason why I love it so much...I even prefer it to my x series Sansui that is more analytical than my 7700 but without being dry for sure the x series are top of the line... It is only my actual choice with my actual speakers...You opinion is confirming my bias...My best to you...



When I go and collect my AU-717, Skippy will let me listen to a 907 alpha. This will give me a taste of what the Sansui alphas sounds like.


----------



## UntilThen

I've a problem now. The LS28 sounds better than my LCD-3f from the Sansui AU-7700.


----------



## richard51

I think you will be astounded by the alpha Sansui... very refine sound....But for me my alpha does not crush the AU 7700 in any way, they are very different, the synergy with the speakers is the way to choose which is the best for that speakers... I own the top of the line Mission cyrus 781 with them the 7700 is the best, but in the past I  had the Tannoy gold dual concentric with them the alpha would be the best....


----------



## UntilThen

Both very nice speakers there Richard. You should have kept the Tannoy.


----------



## richard51 (Apr 12, 2019)

The Tannoy were stupendous yes but too big for my desk and for nearfield listening....I sold my 2 pairs ….

I must say that I enjoy nearfield listening so much that use my headphones less often and they are very good tough...The Mission Cyrus  are able to delivered a depth soundstage that are vey good....But the Sansui and the Dac are also some important factors for that  I think... Near listening field is my way now....


----------



## DRHamp

UntilThen said:


> Beautiful @DRHamp. Amp is in very good condition. You don't need anymore. Get it restored and enjoy it. Next get small speakers for it. You'll be surprised how good it sound through a pair of bookshelf speakers.



Yes, I have a pair of KEF Q100 which I plan to use - all set up at a work station, so I only have room for nearfield.  Looking forward to giving them a try.


----------



## DRHamp

fotomeow said:


> Looks good DR.
> I agree, one project at a time (something I’m still working on!).
> Wood case looks great
> Any tubes in her? “Warmer than Mjolnir2”
> Is this just for headphones or speakers too?



No tubes, all solid state.  I am hoping to use both speakers and headphones.  While the Mjolnir 2 isn't necessarily bright, it is less warm than these vintage amps and most tube hybrids that I've tried.


----------



## SpeakerBox

DRHamp said:


> Here's the Sherwood S-8800 - got it today.  - it sounds very good out of the Yggy and the FM is good.  I haven't opened it up yet but need to do that soon.   A couple of obervations out of the box.
> 1.  Only light working at turn-on is the tuner signal light - no other lighting
> 2.  Balance control is reversed R is L and vice-versa - it is also very noisy
> 3.  The wood veneer cabinet is very nice, but I don't think it's original to the unit (based on pictures I've seen)
> ...



I found that it is common for Sherwood receivers to have L/R balance reversed out of the HP jack (not speakers though).


----------



## DRHamp (Apr 13, 2019)

SpeakerBox said:


> I found that it is common for Sherwood receivers to have L/R balance reversed out of the HP jack (not speakers though).



Ahhh good to know -- haven't tried speakers yet but will do so soon.  Have it open now and I don't see any indication of replaced parts - it is pretty clean and looks to be all original.  I've found several other pictures also and now believe the wood case is original.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Apr 13, 2019)

DRHamp said:


> Ahhh good to know -- haven't tried speakers yet but will do so soon.  Have it open now and I don't see any indication of replaced parts - it is pretty clean and looks to be all original.  I've found several other pictures also and now believe the wood case is original.



Very nice. They are quite easy to work on, being so well  organized.  I have found a few Sherwoods that don't have the L/R reversed, but not many.


----------



## fotomeow

UntilThen said:


> Now with my 20 years old Axis LS28 speakers. It's in as new condition. It is well look after.  The LS28 sounds way better than the Diamond 10.1.



No doubt, the LS28 are beauties! 
(And i always go for the bigger bookshelves)


----------



## PhoenixG

DRHamp said:


> Ahhh good to know -- haven't tried speakers yet but will do so soon.  Have it open now and I don't see any indication of replaced parts - it is pretty clean and looks to be all original.  I've found several other pictures also and now believe the wood case is original.



Wow those internals are SPOTLESS! Great find!


----------



## UntilThen

AU-717 is back with new binding posts to replace those spring clips. Skippy did an excellent job. Love it.


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> AU-717 is back with new binding posts to replace those spring clips. Skippy did an excellent job. Love it.



Yep, Dad has done a great job with those binding post conversion kits. Very clean and fully reversible if required - the way that all good mods should be!


----------



## UntilThen

Whilst there, I had the opportunity to listen to the Sansui au alpha 907MR driving a pair of floor standing Paradigms. The amp is gold in colour and even have balanced input. 

I can now appreciate the shift in the Sansui alpha to a more neutral tone with very good clarity and details, whilst still sounding musically involving. There's a lot to love about it.


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> Whilst there, I had the opportunity to listen to the Sansui au alpha 907MR driving a pair of floor standing Paradigms. The amp is gold in colour and even have balanced input.
> 
> I can now appreciate the shift in the Sansui alpha to a more neutral tone with very good clarity and details, whilst still sounding musically involving. There's a lot to love about it.



Ah, glad to hear that Dad set the 907MR up for you to hear!

The MR is the model after the 907XR that I currently run at my place. It's a very very slight evolution over the XR - slightly more detail, a tad less warmth. 

I'll be collecting the MR this week for some listening over the Easter period, and will also be re-doing the wooden side cheeks (you would have seen the unfortunate cracking and damage). It should look as-new once finished!

The balanced inputs are a nice touch on the 707 and 907 Alphas - they do provide added flexibility. I haven't used the balanced inputs much as my unbalanced interconnects (Aurealis R1 Dragon) sound better than my Mogami Gold balanced interconnects.


----------



## UntilThen

The 907MR is a beautiful looking amp. I noticed the binding posts looking very substantial and classy. So are the chunky gold feet and the very big and smooth volume knob. I'm sure after your restoration it will look really good. 

I was just thinking that the Yggdrasil has balanced xlr out and would connect to the Alpha 907MR nicely.


----------



## UntilThen

Here and now the 717 is back in action. Near field, far field or headphone duties, it's putting a stellar performance with it's own signature tone. Big, bold, warm, lush and unbelievably real. I love this amp.


----------



## petemac110

UntilThen said:


> The 907MR is a beautiful looking amp. I noticed the binding posts looking very substantial and classy. So are the chunky gold feet and the very big and smooth volume knob. I'm sure after your restoration it will look really good.
> 
> I was just thinking that the Yggdrasil has balanced xlr out and would connect to the Alpha 907MR nicely.



Indeed, they are 33kg of Sansui's finest. The binding posts on the MRX are from WBT and are top-quality. The feet themselves weigh over 1kg in total.

I'll post some internal pics once I receive the MR, although it looks identical inside to the XR that I have.


----------



## SpeakerBox

UntilThen said:


> I can now appreciate the shift in the Sansui alpha to a more neutral tone with very good clarity and details, whilst still sounding musically involving. There's a lot to love about it.



I would say neutral (or slightly to the brighter side of neutral) tone almost perfectly describes the SX-1250 also.


----------



## yates7592

I've just assigned my AU-717 to preamp duties and as expected it's more than up to the task. What is surprising to me and a very pleasant one at that, is that even in separated mode all the tone controls such as bass, treble and loudness are still engaged and have a very audible effect. Anyone else used AU-717 like this?


----------



## UntilThen

Haven't tried the AU-717 as a preamp yet. It's the amp I'm using on my desk for a week now for both headphones and near field duties.


----------



## SpeakerBox

yates7592 said:


> I've just assigned my AU-717 to preamp duties and as expected it's more than up to the task. What is surprising to me and a very pleasant one at that, is that even in separated mode all the tone controls such as bass, treble and loudness are still engaged and have a very audible effect. Anyone else used AU-717 like this?



Typically the tone control functions are part of the preamp.  Sounds like you have a real nice piece of gear there.


----------



## petemac110 (Apr 21, 2019)

A challenger to the crown has arrived... enter the Sansui AU-Apha 907MR!

Lots of bitumised rubber sound deadening and Teflon tape to be found everywhere, along with the usual array of Elna Silmic Alpha Gold capacitors, RIKEN resistors and the big 13kg Tamura transformer. 33kg of Sansui goodness right here.

The 907XR still occupies the penthouse in the Tower of Alpha... but for how long???

From the lower levels, the 907DR looks on, biding its time. It is the black sheep of the family... the dark horse that still packs a mighty punch, with none of that showy silvery champagne livery.

There's a rumble in the jungle beckoning!!


----------



## UntilThen

This is the amp I heard at Skippy's place. Such a polished sound with amazing details. Making a mental note that this will be my next and final Sansui.


----------



## richard51

I am very lucky that my 2 Sansui were so amazingly good and different of one another....Without that I would be green of envy in my face...The 907 MR look like  some pinnacle of the Sansui mountain range...


----------



## richard51 (Apr 21, 2019)

And perhaps at some point in the audio quality level for amplifier, Sansui or not, there is more to gain with tweaks and cleaning method,vibrations controls, or dac upgrade or turntable upgrade, etc , than to purchase another amplifier,Sansui or not ...
Perhaps I say all that because I am already green face with envy...I think so after all.... Damn it ! I want now another Sansui I confess to you all  ahhhhh….


----------



## Majestyk

Has anyone compared their favorite vintage receiver against the Massdrop THX AAA 789? Just curious.


----------



## petemac110

richard51 said:


> And perhaps at some point in the audio quality level for amplifier, Sansui or not, there is more to gain with tweaks and cleaning method,vibrations controls, or dac upgrade or turntable upgrade, etc , than to purchase another amplifier,Sansui or not ...
> Perhaps I say all that because I am already green face with envy...I think so after all.... Damn it ! I want now another Sansui I confess to you all  ahhhhh….



I'm luckily at the point where I've played around with numerous speakers and DACs at various price points, and have settled upon options which are not necessarily the most expensive components that I’ve ever owned, but are the best sounding to my ears. Same goes for interconnects and whatnot. I could upgrade my turntable, although it is fully overhauled and certainly no slouch with the DL-110 HOMC cart. 

I could sell all of my Sansui gear and buy a very high-priced system, but it would lack that emotional investment that I have with my Sansuis and, let’s face it, the emotional engagement with music is what this hobby is all about.


----------



## richard51

petemac110 said:


> I'm luckily at the point where I've played around with numerous speakers and DACs at various price points, and have settled upon options which are not necessarily the most expensive components that I’ve ever owned, but are the best sounding to my ears. Same goes for interconnects and whatnot. I could upgrade my turntable, although it is fully overhauled and certainly no slouch with the DL-110 HOMC cart.
> 
> I could sell all of my Sansui gear and buy a very high-priced system, but it would lack that emotional investment that I have with my Sansuis and, let’s face it, the emotional engagement with music is what this hobby is all about.



Very well said! There is nothing than that "emotional engagement with music" in this hobby for me too, when we have it, we stick to it, and sometimes we buy more  of this loved gear at first "sight" , the reason why I had 2 Sansuis, and more to come if I can...My best to you...


----------



## SpeakerBox

petemac110 said:


> I could upgrade my turntable, although it is fully overhauled and certainly no slouch with the DL-110 HOMC cart.



I have the DL-110 and DL-301 mkII.  Love the Denon house sound!


----------



## Monsterzero

SpeakerBox said:


> Love the Denon house sound!



How would you describe the house sound of  Denon gear?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Monsterzero said:


> How would you describe the house sound of  Denon gear?



Well, on my system I would say the 301 is a little to warmer side of neutral (with a slightly recessed mid range).  Matches well with the 1250 as it can be brighter.  I would say the 110 is brighter with a bit of a rise in the high end.  Detail is good on both, but they are not ultra detailed either.


----------



## kid vic

SpeakerBox said:


> I have the DL-110 and DL-301 mkII.  Love the Denon house sound!



Nice, I've got the DL110, DL301 mkI and a DL103LC!



SpeakerBox said:


> Well, on my system I would say the 301 is a little to warmer side of neutral (with a slightly recessed mid range).  Matches well with the 1250 as it can be brighter.  I would say the 110 is brighter with a bit of a rise in the high end.  Detail is good on both, but they are not ultra detailed either.



Interesting, the mk1 to me sounds dead neutral and even across the board and more or less like a perfected DL110; to me both where only bright if the record was. The DL301/Lounge Audio Copla/ Kenwood KA-9100 setup I'm running is heavenly. I want to mod the DL103 before I put it on but maybe I'll give it a test run at some point.


----------



## UntilThen

richard51 said:


> And perhaps at some point in the audio quality level for amplifier, Sansui or not, there is more to gain with tweaks and cleaning method,vibrations controls, or dac upgrade or turntable upgrade, etc , than to purchase another amplifier,Sansui or not ...
> Perhaps I say all that because I am already green face with envy...I think so after all.... Damn it ! I want now another Sansui I confess to you all  ahhhhh….



I'm quite happy with my source(s) now. Well make it very happy.  If I ain't happy with Yggdrasil and Rega Rp8 with Apheta cartridge, then I must be very picky. 

As for speakers, I've a very sentimental attachment with my 20 years old Axis LS28 and LS88. In addition, I'll be receiving the Axis Voicebox S in a few days time. This will be the 2nd time I'm going to be with this super monitor. What's more special is that the designer of these Axis speakers was in my house a year ago and we spin quite a few vinyls together namely Led Zeppelin because he's a fan. Yes 'Stairway to heaven' !

So now I've got Redgum and my Sansui AU-717. I guess asking for another Sansui Au alpha 907MR isn't too much right? 

By the way, I'm selling my AU-7700 to a friend, fan and fiend ! I know he will like it as much as I did. Why did I sell it? Well he wanted it and I see no point in having so many amps at home.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Apr 23, 2019)

kid vic said:


> Nice, I've got the DL110, DL301 mkI and a DL103LC!
> Interesting, the mk1 to me sounds dead neutral and even across the board and more or less like a perfected DL110; to me both where only bright if the record was. The DL301/Lounge Audio Copla/ Kenwood KA-9100 setup I'm running is heavenly. I want to mod the DL103 before I put it on but maybe I'll give it a test run at some point.



I would say your description of the 301 as a perfected 110 is very accurate.  And yes, it is very neutral.


----------



## DRHamp

Just got my AU-317 back from re-cap and picked up a refurbished TU-317 while it was away.  The 317 fed by the Yggy is better than excellent.  Can't 
wait for the AU-7900 to get back.


----------



## kid vic

SpeakerBox said:


> I would say your description of the 301 as a perfected 110 is very accurate.  And yes, it is very neutral.



Only downside is that now a DL304 or DL305 is calling my name!


----------



## SpeakerBox

kid vic said:


> Only downside is that now a DL304 or DL305 is calling my name!



Well, if you didn't have upgrade-itis you probably would not be an audiophile.  You are in good company my friend!


----------



## petemac110

DRHamp said:


> Just got my AU-317 back from re-cap and picked up a refurbished TU-317 while it was away.  The 317 fed by the Yggy is better than excellent.  Can't
> wait for the AU-7900 to get back.



Lovely - the AU-317 is an under-rated gem, and that slimline form factor can be a big plus. I run a restored 317 as part of my PC rig.


----------



## UntilThen

The AU-717 is now my resident desktop amp. 

I’m actually enjoying it more with my LCD-3f than the hd800.

Using the LS28 just as much. The Voicebox is not here yet!


----------



## UntilThen

Today I collected the Axis Voicebox S at the Post Office and rushed home to have a listen. Ever since I got the Sansui AU-717, I often wondered how the Voicebox will sound driven by the Sansui. I had the Voicebox last year, bought new but sold it much to my regret afterwards. This is all part of my audio journey.

So when the chance came to get the Voicebox again, I jump at it. It's a super monitor, that is revealing as it is natural with voice plus a taut tight bass and a soundstage that belies it's small solid box construction. It's a deep gloss piano black. 

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/axis/1.html

Connect the Voicebox to the AU-717 and the first song left me speechless. Forget about Focal Utopia headphone, this is much better and in near field listening, it's stunning. My love for the warm and analogue sounding 717 grew ten fold. With the neutral Yggdrasil as source and the pin point accurate Voicebox, this is a great synergy and musical.

Had to put micro-fibre cloth underneath the speakers to protect the deep gloss paint work.


----------



## UntilThen

Any doubt about the AU-717 ability to drive the 100w capable, 5 ohms and 83db inefficient speakers disappeared completely after the first song. The 717 was driving the power hungry small Voicebox monitor like a sumo wrestler. 

It is driving it as well as my Redgum RGi120ENR black series integrated amp.


----------



## Oregonian

UntilThen said:


> Any doubt about the AU-717 ability to drive the 100w capable, 5 ohms and 83db inefficient speakers disappeared completely after the first song. The 717 was driving the power hungry small Voicebox monitor like a sumo wrestler.
> 
> It is driving it as well as my Redgum RGi120ENR black series integrated amp.



Now just throw a sub under that desk fed from the B speaker connectors and you'll be in audio heaven.................


----------



## BobG55 (Apr 26, 2019)

Like this ?






Oregonian said:


> Now just throw a sub under that desk fed from the B speaker connectors and you'll be in audio heaven.................


----------



## SpeakerBox

BobG55 said:


> Like this ?


Looks big enough to produce some bass once it hits the floor.


----------



## UntilThen

I threw my home theatre Definitive Technology sub under the desk and now the desk is no more.


----------



## northendjazz

More vintage goodness arrived earlier today, for headphones in its current location under my work desk . Recapped and serviced and sounding good but good is not the word needed here,  sublime would be more fitting or some expletive in front of good. Listening to Delvon Lamarr Organ Trio - Live At KEXP! and the amp has the bass under control with detail but what I noticed most is how well it deals with the crashy? cymbals on a couple of tracks that other amps have rendered a little messy.


----------



## richard51

Sublime is the normal walk and dance for any Sansui it seems, for mine too... Welcome to this select club of gentlemen...


----------



## northendjazz

Thanks richard51 I think I'm going to like this club .


----------



## richard51 (May 1, 2019)

But this club rightly include also all Vintage Owner 's  amplifiers or receivers that are stars of their own sky... A great brotherhood indeed!


----------



## petemac110

So, the Sansui AU Alpha 907MR was suffering from cracked side panels, as is often the case with late model Alphas that have copped a few bumps.

The side panels are a type of MDF which are very smooth and have been finished with some kind of vacuum-formed plastic covering (as opposed to vinyl). It is probably around 0.5-1mm thick and has the inner wood-look finish with a hard, brittle clear layer over the top.

Below are the damaged original coverings which have been carefully removed:










The smooth MDF finish beneath:






I decided to use a 3M Di-Noc Bubinga gloss vinyl to refinish the side panels, just as smurfer77 used on his 907 Limited (albet in birdseye maple finish). The Di-Noc vinyl is very pliable once heated, and can be stretched to confirm with curves and corners. It takes some practice and patience. I recommend buying slightly more than you need, cutting off a test piece, and mastering the process.





One panel complete:






Both panels done - all trimmed up, holes cut for the plastic lugs to be inserted, and screwed into place. Very very happy with the result - the colour is similar, but with much more grain and visual interest.

Frankly, I'm amazed at how good this 3M product is! In terms of the appearance and grain, it is slightly better than the factory finish on the 907XR that is here, which is a birdseye maple type finish. They have done such a brilliant job in achieving variation to the finish and giving the impression of depth.


----------



## Jabba

Beautiful @petemac110


----------



## richard51 (May 4, 2019)

Petemac 110, Congratulations!  «A thing of beauty is a joy forever».


P.s. I look at it many times, and it is one of the most beautiful amplifier I ever seen...I wish I had one !


----------



## richie60

Picked up an Audiolab 8000C preamp today.  I wanted one for quite a while primarily for its Phono stage and switching between sources.  The headphone amp inside is very nice too (class A).  Will add an 8000P power amp at a later date for loudspeaker duties.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice @richie60


----------



## BobG55

petemac110 said:


> So, the Sansui AU Alpha 907MR was suffering from cracked side panels, as is often the case with late model Alphas that have copped a few bumps.
> 
> The side panels are a type of MDF which are very smooth and have been finished with some kind of vacuum-formed plastic covering (as opposed to vinyl). It is probably around 0.5-1mm thick and has the inner wood-look finish with a hard, brittle clear layer over the top.
> 
> ...



It's a work of art.  Congratulations petemac110 and may you enjoy it for many years to come.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The listening room (needs to be finished):


----------



## UntilThen

I bought a Sansui au alpha 907MR.


----------



## UntilThen

UntilThen said:


> This is the amp I heard at Skippy's place. Such a polished sound with amazing details. Making a mental note that this will be my next and final Sansui.



On April 21, I made this post. Little did I know that an Alpha 907mr would come knocking on my door in less than a month. It's in stunning condition from the photos and a unbelievable price. What's more I don't have to import it from Japan. I only have to take a leisurely 40 minutes drive to audition and pick it up. 

So in 12 hours time, I'll be listening to the seller's incredible collection of vintage amps and Diatone ds-2000 and Yamaha NS1000 speakers.... and of course the Sansui au alpha 907mr.


----------



## DRHamp

Here's my latest Sansui aquisition - Sansui Eight - fully recapped/restored.  Will do some sound comparisons with the AU-317 and next week with the AU-7900.


----------



## UntilThen

It's a nice looking receiver. Your Sansui collection is growing.


----------



## DRHamp

UntilThen said:


> It's a nice looking receiver. Your Sansui collection is growing.



It is - my plan is to stop there -- hmmm where have I heard that before?


----------



## Oregonian

DRHamp said:


> It is - my plan is to stop there -- hmmm where have I heard that before?



I think we've all said that...................I know I did about 4 purchases ago!


----------



## UntilThen

DRHamp said:


> It is - my plan is to stop there -- hmmm where have I heard that before?



I'd have 5 vintage amps since March 3rd this year.... if you count the 907mr as vintage. Well it was made in 1995 and the last (or nearly last) of Sansui grand ss amps with x balanced circuitry.

I've since sold the AU-7700 to another Sansui lover and will sell off the AU-505 and Sony 7035.

Thereafter I will keep just the Au-717 and Alpha 907mr..... until the next itch comes.


----------



## UntilThen

1st impressions are priceless. So you want to capture that and just say it. Rather than try to pen it again here in a different way, I've decided to copy and paste what I wrote on my local forum.

_The arrival of the Sansui au Alpha 907MR was rather unexpected. I had put an embargo on anymore audio buying when I woke up early on the 9th of May and saw this ad of the 907mr staring at me. Well I was going to buy one from Japan when I find a good unit and have work out how to import it from Japan.  This was going to be a future plan but there's this unit on stereonet with a asking price of $1800 and it's in Sydney! 

So I bought it. Just like that. This morning I went to pick it up from the seller's place and he has the most incredible collection of vintage amps and receivers, including pre and power Sansui vintage. I had the opportunity to listen to the 907mr through a pair of immaculate Yamaha NS1000. Behind the Yamaha was a pair of Diatone DS-3000. I also spy a Sansui AX 1111 MOS Vintage in mint condition. And a Yamaha CA2000. There's 907KX, KR, Sony Pre and Power amps, Pioneer SX-1050., Denon Pre and Power vintage amps. I didn't want to go home.

Oh well I have to go home and have to carry this 33kgs monster to the boot of my car. Fortunately the seller offered to carry it for me.

So I got it home and set it up in the lounge on the floor. I dare not put it on the rack for fear of topping the Rega RP8.  The seller loan me a step down transformer for Japanese appliance. It's 1.5 kva and it's also a monster.

Anyhoo I hook up the amp, fed by my Pioneer SACD player and connected my Axis LS88 speakers. Put on 'Brothers in arms' by Dire Straits and the hairs of my hands stood on ends. This amp is a monster! It's ultra revealing but what a tone. It's so natural and musical and the bass..... never heard my speakers go so deep and low and the punch. 

Anyway no time to write more because I've now move it miraculously to the study and had it hook up to Yggdrasil via xlr balanced cable and my LCD-3f jump up and started walking and dancing...... ok that's enough. I'm going back to listening to music. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
_


----------



## UntilThen

Hello where is the switch to control speakers + headphone or speakers only or headphone only on this 907MR? There isn't one. The only omission on this otherwise stunning amp. There is a loudness and subsonic switch but this amp is already uber goodness without those switch on. 

The volume knob is a work of art. There are markings on it and it's a joy to turn.. and I keep turning it. 

Finally more about the sound. In all my time with headphone amps and stereo amps that I've heard at home or in audio stores, this is the best tone I've heard to date. Prior to getting this 907MR, I love the sound signature of the AU-717 very much but now the 907MR has set a new gold standard for me. It's definitely more neutral but not clinical. It still sounds a bit tube like but with great clarity and details. Bass is taut and tight and hits with a tsunami impact. This amp is in total control driving the Audeze LCD-3f. Heck it's in total control driving my tower speakers. 160w into 8 ohms and 190w into 6 ohms  - my volume knob does not go beyond 9 o'clock.


----------



## UntilThen

The seller told me he's selling the amp because the colour of the side panels does not match his other gear. What??!!! This amp could have come in any colour and I wouldn't have complained. 

Now finally listening to the king of details HD800 with the 907MR. I'm a details lovers just as much as I love the lush and romantic LCD-3f. The Sennheiser flagship is very very good with this Sansui. It's going to be a very long night.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I am definitely a detail freak.


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> I am definitely a detail freak.



I'm a details and bass freak and vocals ! As they say, midrange is king. Well I kind of like everything. After months with AU-717 and LCD-3f, it's a refreshing change with Alpha 907MR and HD800.

The main draw here is running Yggdrasil with 907MR in balance mode. I have xlr balance cable and RCA cable from Yggdrasil to 907MR and I can switch from 'integrated' line mode (RCA) to 'balance' mode (xlr balance) and the difference is obvious. Cables used are inexpensive Audioquest Golden Gate for RCA and 3' Mogami 2534 Quad Balanced Cable Neutrik Gold XLR Male to XLR Female Blue.

In balance mode, it's louder, wider soundstage, mids more forward and simply more dynamic overall.


----------



## UntilThen

The backsides


----------



## UntilThen

A temporary setup so that I can compare these 2 amps easily. Both are hooked up to Yggdrasil. One via RCA, the other via xlr balanced cable.

I wouldn't term the Alpha 907MR as strictly neutral. There's still a very slight hint of warm but that is great. It's faster and more agile. Micro details abounds more and there's superb instruments separation. Bass is tighter and with more precision impact.

Overall I definitely prefer the Alpha 907MR but it's a madness 33 kgs. At some point I'll have to move it back to the lounge because what it did to my speakers is a revelation.


----------



## UntilThen

The 907MR has repaid me tenfold when I connected the Axis Voicebox S. I am a very happy man now. Never mind that it's black and gold. 

I feel like I'm in a studio. The clarity is astounding.


----------



## lantian

UntilThen said:


> The 907MR has repaid me tenfold when I connected the Axis Voicebox S. I am a very happy man now. Never mind that it's black and gold.
> 
> I feel like I'm in a studio. The clarity is astounding.


Wish those things would't cost over 2 grand here, right now it seems to be like unobtainium here, it costs more used than new.


----------



## richard51

I am very happy for you UntilThen, and a little envious also, but for _all of you that already owns very good vintage_, dont be....The result of all that makes quality sound is not only the quality of the amplifier but also all the others elements linked in the stereo system ,including the electrical grid of the room and the house, I dont even speak of the speakers particular voicing or the room treatment... Then dont kill yourself at reading others extasy and think about tweaks and modifications of your own audio gear to makes that optimal.... For me with my Sansui AU-7700 and the tweakes I implemented in my  system I enjoy tubelike sound with all possible details in the limit of my own system...Even with that I am jealous for sure of the beauty of this Alpha Sansui... Congratulations to UntilThen !


----------



## UntilThen

I humbly accept all the congratulations because this has been a very lucky purchase for me. To import a similar unit from Japan with shipping and import duties would have cost me 3 to 3.5 grand Aussie dollars. I got this for $1800 and it's in immaculate condition. Had I slept in that morning, I would have miss this. Someone would have bought it for sure. 

When I went to pick it up, I ask the seller if the headphone jack works. He told me he doesn't use headphones so cannot guarantee if it works. When I brought it home, the headphone function works like a charm. There's no noise at all. 

What's more, he had just send it in to a HiFi shop to have it serviced. 

So now I have to colour my HD800 to match it.


----------



## richard51

I vouch to never sleep all morning now and wait for the god of luck to place one on my road!


----------



## UntilThen

Someday I'll have to go back and listen to his Sansui Pre C2301 and Power B2301. He showed me the units but I didn't have time to have him set it up for a listen. That's a 300wpc monster. 

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sansui-B-2301.html


----------



## hawkeye99

SpeakerBox said:


> The listening room (needs to be finished):



...and a vintage TV to boot.


----------



## SpeakerBox

hawkeye99 said:


> ...and a vintage TV to boot.



Actually, that is a cheap Ilo TV.  Not as vintage as it looks.  Has an HDTV tuner in it but reproduces only 480i.  Hope to get a flat screen at some point.


----------



## DRHamp

Got the AU-7900 back from QRX Restore in Eugene, OR.  It sound awesome these guys do first class work.


----------



## petemac110

DRHamp said:


> Got the AU-7900 back from QRX Restore in Eugene, OR.  It sound awesome these guys do first class work.



Nice one - they have an excellent reputation!


----------



## Oregonian

DRHamp said:


> Got the AU-7900 back from QRX Restore in Eugene, OR.  It sound awesome these guys do first class work.



Glad to hear of another good restoration place in my neck of the woods.  Thank you for posting the name.  

I LOVE the Sansui blackout look................


----------



## SpeakerBox

Modified my SX-1250 with a an IEC inlet.  Now I can change out power cords at will.  Have fitted it with one of my home brew monster power cords that I used to use with my Rowland amps.  I do believe I am hearing deeper bass.


----------



## Oregonian

The latest score...............got these Cerwin Vega DX-5's, a couple subs (JBL!) and a few donateable (is that a word?) mid-90's Sony separates (CD player, receiver, cassette deck) for a great price.  Had the rubber surrounds replaced by my local speaker guru and put the speakers in the main system.  Cabinets are as close to perfect as I have seen on a 20 year old pair of speakers, as was all the other equipment.  Many love CV speaker, many don't..............I do. Have a pair of DX-3's in the garage gym system and four bookshelf sized CV's in use around the house and outside by the hot tub - I am a fan of Cerwin Vega and have been since my roommate had a pair in our rental house back in the day.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice find @Oregonian!


----------



## Skylab

Wow @Oregonian  those may be the nicest looking vintage C-V’s o have ever seen! Congrats!


----------



## BucketInABucket

I got a beauty here!


----------



## Jabba

Very nice @BucketInABucket 
Wood enclosures always makes my heart beat a bit faster. But why hide the beautiful top?
I see you have a Theta dac, curious about what you think of it's musicality and general sq.
Been hearing good things about these dac's from version.2 end up to version.V


----------



## BucketInABucket

Jabba said:


> Very nice @BucketInABucket
> Wood enclosures always makes my heart beat a bit faster. But why hide the beautiful top?
> I see you have a Theta dac, curious about what you think of it's musicality and general sq.
> Been hearing good things about these dac's from version.2 end up to version.V


I don't have any space to put it sadly! My desk is completely covered with tech...

I've used the theta DAC for so long I honestly don't know any other sound! It certainly sounds amazing though


----------



## UntilThen

BucketInABucket said:


> I got a beauty here!



That's a nice STR-6050. I still have my STR-7035.


----------



## Jabba

Good to hear you enjoy the Theta @BucketInABucket
After getting a Parasound d/ac 1500 and loving the music it presents, I've been looking for a 2'nd "vintage" r2r for my headphone setup (or speaker setup depending on synergy)
So if any one have any input on Theta it would be great.


----------



## SpeakerBox

BucketInABucket said:


> I got a beauty here!



Very nice gear @BucketInABucket


----------



## Oregonian

BucketInABucket said:


> I got a beauty here!



Looks pristine................love those old Sony's!


----------



## BucketInABucket

Oregonian said:


> Looks pristine................love those old Sony's!


It's absolutely mint! The radio antenna broke off in shipping though which was a huge shame.

I also modded the unit to add a fuse...no pics sadly but it blows my mind how these don't have one!


----------



## KG Jag

Sony's of that era are excellent.  I greatly enjoy my STR-7055.


----------



## TubeTone

BucketInABucket said:


> I got a beauty here!


That looks like it was just removed from the shipping box!


----------



## PhoenixG

BucketInABucket said:


> It's absolutely mint! The radio antenna broke off in shipping though which was a huge shame.
> 
> I also modded the unit to add a fuse...no pics sadly but it blows my mind how these don't have one!


No fuse?? Woah! The higher spec models (6065 and up) have one soldered into the power supply board. I like to modify in a fuse bracket to make changing it easier (because of course I never get the troubleshooting right the first time...)


----------



## SpeakerBox

PhoenixG said:


> No fuse?? Woah! The higher spec models (6065 and up) have one soldered into the power supply board. I like to modify in a fuse bracket to make changing it easier (because of course I never get the troubleshooting right the first time...)



That is surprising (not to mention dangerous)!


----------



## Monsterzero

Damn Mikey from Verastarr hit the jackpot.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Monsterzero said:


> Damn Mikey from Verastarr hit the jackpot.




To die for!


----------



## Jabba

Wow.
At the begining if this video, I  thought to show it to my wife (I don't have lots of gear, look at this guy).
But as the clip go on and on, I'm more afraid she'd be s.... scared I'll turn into one.
So I'll let it be.


----------



## northendjazz

Monsterzero said:


> Damn Mikey from Verastarr hit the jackpot.



I pushed like button but kind of wish a combined like/dislike button existed, stack after stack of vintage goodness but so far away. If I spent the airfare on amps I could have my own small stack of amps.


----------



## Monsterzero

Jabba said:


> Wow.
> At the begining if this video, I  thought to show it to my wife (I don't have lots of gear, look at this guy).
> But as the clip go on and on, I'm more afraid she'd be s.... scared I'll turn into one.
> So I'll let it be.



Betcha a beer that this dude isnt married,lol.


----------



## richard51

This video is the most amazing I ever see in headfi...


----------



## KG Jag

Too much is not enough!


----------



## BobG55

For anyone that might be interested.  $920.00 US + s&h.

Fisher 500c stereo tube receiver all original in excellent condition For Sale - Canuck Audio Mart


https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...receiver-all-original-in-excellent-condition/


----------



## SpeakerBox

BobG55 said:


> For anyone that might be interested.  $920.00 US + s&h.
> 
> Fisher 500c stereo tube receiver all original in excellent condition For Sale - Canuck Audio Mart
> 
> ...



That is a decent price, if I didn't have a restored 400 I would probably check into it.


----------



## SpeakerBox

It is quite amazing that the FM tuner in my Fisher 400 sounds as good or better than the one in my heavily modded Kenwood KT-7550.  No mods to the Fisher, just new parts.


----------



## DRHamp

I've been focused on Sansui and Sherwood over the past year, but recently picked up this Luxman combination in absolutely mint condition.
I love the look of it and it sounds as good as those Sansui and Sherwood pieces that I have.  The amp does seem to run hotter than what I'm use to, so don't know what's up with that.  The tuner is a T-450 and the amp is the L-480.  The Rosewood cabinets are gorgeous.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice Luxman gear.  I been reading very good things about Luxman vintage receivers.  Specifically the R-117 and R-1120.  One or the other may be in my future.


----------



## northendjazz

Today I cleaned the Pots on my Sansui 800 Receiver and wow! it must have been gradually getting worse as now the pots are clean the difference is marked. 
That sweet vintage Sansui goodness is back to avenge my ears.


----------



## SpeakerBox

northendjazz said:


> Today I cleaned the Pots on my Sansui 800 Receiver and wow! it must have been gradually getting worse as now the pots are clean the difference is marked.
> That sweet vintage Sansui goodness is back to avenge my ears.



Nothing like a good DeoxIt bath to perk up that old gear!


----------



## richard51

I speak to God yesterday in the night, he owns a Sansui AU but damn it! I forgot the number...


----------



## DRHamp

Ok guys, I have a really Newbie question - I have a Sansui TU-7900 tuner.  The tuner does not have the A.M. antenna attached, but I have the antenna and want to connect it so the unit is complete.  There are four wires from the antenna, red, blue, yellow, and black.  I see where all of them connect except the black wire.  Is the black wire a ground or something and where should I connect it?
Like I said - a really newbie question and the service manual doesn't help me.
Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The antenna should have two loops.  In other words two pairs of wires that are connected.  You can check with a DVM.  I would connect one loop to FM and one to AM (two wires each).  That said a single wire should work for AM.  There should be no need to ground an antenna as this would almost certainly kill the signal.


----------



## DRHamp

Thank you @SpeakerBox


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

I was told that i can post this here  Anyway the story is, I accidentally dug this thing out of our family storage. No idea it ever existed, my dad told me it was a gift from a friend aeons ago. My question is, is this thing any good? or is it anything special? would like to learn more about it! Thanks!


----------



## KG Jag

If it works well, it is clearly a keeper.  Maybe even if it doesn't and can be reasonably brought back to life.  See:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/1122dc.shtml


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

KG Jag said:


> If it works well, it is clearly a keeper.  Maybe even if it doesn't and can be reasonably brought back to life.  See:
> 
> https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/marantz/1122dc.shtml


Oh ya forgot to mention. It works like a charm. Just hooked it up to a pair of late 80s Aiwa Speakers.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Welcome to the vintage club.  Glad to have you aboard!


----------



## BobG55 (Aug 24, 2019)

Pinksoshistuff said:


> I was told that i can post this here  Anyway the story is, I accidentally dug this thing out of our family storage. No idea it ever existed, my dad told me it was a gift from a friend aeons ago. My question is, is this thing any good? or is it anything special? would like to learn more about it! Thanks!



Beautiful vintage amp.  Congratulations and enjoy.


----------



## kid vic

Pinksoshistuff said:


> I was told that i can post this here  Anyway the story is, I accidentally dug this thing out of our family storage. No idea it ever existed, my dad told me it was a gift from a friend aeons ago. My question is, is this thing any good? or is it anything special? would like to learn more about it! Thanks!



For the Phono stage alone its probably worth more than it would cost to tune it up. Vintage Marantz stuff tends to be well regarded and reasonable to sell.


----------



## northendjazz

Snagged myself a winter project, its in Urmm original condition but does works and I'm thinking of a rewire.
With the signal wires coming with bare wire ends and someone cut the ground wire off,  the power wire looks its age.
I want to keep the plinth vintage with wood sides and leather trim, so a clean and refinish on the wood. 
The cart is a Shure M44e I'll leave that till the other works done.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice  @northendjazz.  Enjoy!


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

kid vic said:


> For the Phono stage alone its probably worth more than it would cost to tune it up. Vintage Marantz stuff tends to be well regarded and reasonable to sell.



oh ya about that. i have a question, i wasnt able to test the phono stage properly because i have no idea how to hook up the phono stage ground from the marantz. my turntable is a at-lp60 that does not have a ground lead.


----------



## KG Jag

^ The more critical question is: does your budget TT have a built in phono stage--and if so, can you turn it off?  The phono input is designed to be used only for TT's without that feature.  If you have and are using an internal phono pre-amp, then you need to connect your TT to the Aux input instead.

With regard of your original concern, some TT's, especially budget models, do not have a ground wire.  In such cases there is nothing to connect to the grounding screw on the amp or receiver.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

KG Jag said:


> ^ The more critical question is: does your budget TT have a built in phono stage--and if so, can you turn it off?  The phono input is designed to be used only for TT's without that feature.  If you have and are using an internal phono pre-amp, then you need to connect your TT to the Aux input instead.
> 
> With regard of your original concern, some TT's, especially budget models, do not have a ground wire.  In such cases there is nothing to connect to the grounding screw on the amp or receiver.



yes it does have a built in phono stage and yes it can be bypassed with a switch. hmm i guess there's no way to test out the phono stage of the marantz as of now unless i upgrade my turntable. what can i expect if i change to a better phono amp? eg if i ever get a chance to run the marantz, better sound quality? is it possible to get like a 3 prong uk plug grounding cable and connect it to the phono amp. will that work?


----------



## KG Jag (Aug 26, 2019)

Make sure you bypass the internal phono pre-amp (usually by selecting "line" or "off").  Next plug it into the phono input of your amp (rca terminated).  Start your test with volume at or near zero.  Your TT is internally grounded--for better or worse.

A properly working Marantz internal phono pre-amp is very good.  Your current TT and cartridge--not so much.  You need a good quality TT and cartridge to get an idea of how good the Marantz phono pre-amp is.


----------



## Van Isle

No, if you bypass the built-in phono stage in the turntable, then the output has to be connected to the phono-in of the Marantz. 

Remember, that a phono pre-amp does two things:

1. takes the very low-level output from the cartridge and boosts it to essentially the same level as one has for the AUX/CD/Tape inputs (i.e. to 'Line Level').
2. takes the signal as recorded on the record and applies a equalization curve to that signal.  The signal on the record has low frequencies reduced and the high frequencies boosted, (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization). 

So if you plug the by-passed turntable output into a line-level input, your record will sound like faint, bass-shy 'Alvin and the Chipmunks'.  Plug the non-bypassed output from the turntable into the phono input and you over-drive the pre-amp in the Marantz, potentially doing damage.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

i guess its time to get a decent vintage tt from the used market. even though i just got the audio technica like a week ago before finding the marantz a few days later rofl


----------



## Monsterzero

Pinksoshistuff said:


> i guess its time to get a decent vintage tt from the used market. even though i just got the audio technica like a week ago before finding the marantz a few days later rofl


 Told you would get solid advice in this thread. I no longer have a vinyl system but im sure these guys can help you get a great TT for your "new"Marantz.

Enjoy.


----------



## Van Isle

If vinyl is just a casual thing for you, I'd look to upgrade speakers 1st. Something nice and vintage to complement the Marantz. Mind-you, Aiwa did make some fairly decent speakers ... what model are they?

A Marantz turntable of the same vintage would be the 1st go-to for many in your position. However, they really are going for some silly prices these days. Many 'vintage' turntables would easily best your Audio Technica for a lot less $$.

If you are thinking of upgrading, then I'd also keep the cost of a re-cap in mind for the Marantz ... assuming there is someone local to you that can do a half-decent job.

It is nice when you obtain something like that from a family member. My Sansui AU-7700 and TU-7700 were originally purchased by my father-in-law in 1974.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Good advice from all.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff (Aug 26, 2019)

Anyway new update, i rigged a ground from a UK 3 prong plug with only the ground cable connected onto the ground terminal of the marantz chassis and its still humming. im guessing the phono amp of the marantz need to be checked. i mean its a 70s amp and after so many years in storage something might have gone wrong. so yea gonna find a reliable repair guy to have a look at it. and i need to turn the volume up to like 12 o clock to barely hear anything if i plug the tt into the phono stage(Over the unbearing low end hum). and even so. only the right channel have sound. i know it isnt the speakers or anything cause if i run another source through the aux in, it works perfectly. anyway thanks for all the advice! I really learn a lot.( Vintage Technics TT looks very tempting to me now )



Van Isle said:


> If vinyl is just a casual thing for you, I'd look to upgrade speakers 1st. Something nice and vintage to complement the Marantz. Mind-you, Aiwa did make some fairly decent speakers ... what model are they?
> 
> A Marantz turntable of the same vintage would be the 1st go-to for many in your position. However, they really are going for some silly prices these days. Many 'vintage' turntables would easily best your Audio Technica for a lot less $$.
> 
> ...



The speakers are Aiwa SX-N990 from an old Aiwa Hifi system my family owned when i was a kid. Honestly the speakers are pretty flat compare to my Yamaha HS-8 but with the Marantz EQ i was able to get an enjoyable sound out of it. Still hunting for a pair of NS-10m though


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

Pinksoshistuff said:


> Anyway new update, i rigged a ground from a UK 3 prong plug with only the ground cable connected onto the ground terminal of the marantz chassis and its still humming. im guessing the phono amp of the marantz need to be checked. i mean its a 70s amp and after so many years in storage something might have gone wrong. so yea gonna find a reliable repair guy to have a look at it. and i need to turn the volume up to like 12 o clock to barely hear anything if i plug the tt into the phono stage(Over the unbearing low end hum). and even so. only the right channel have sound. i know it isnt the speakers or anything cause if i run another source through the aux in, it works perfectly. anyway thanks for all the advice! I really learn a lot. ( and the vintage technics TT does look very tempting to me now )
> 
> 
> 
> The speakers are Aiwa SX-N990 from an old Aiwa Hifi system my family owned when i was a kid. Honestly the speakers are pretty flat compare to my Yamaha HS-8 but with the Marantz EQ i was able to get an enjoyable sound out of it. Still hunting for a pair of NS-10m though


----------



## SpeakerBox

@Pinksoshistuff its not the Marantz that needs grounding, but rather the turntable.  The TT is supposed to connect to the ground terminal on the Marantz.  Grounding the Marantz won't help.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

SpeakerBox said:


> @Pinksoshistuff its not the Marantz that needs grounding, but rather the turntable.  The TT is supposed to connect to the ground terminal on the Marantz.  Grounding the Marantz won't help.


but it hums without the tt even connected to it though. but sure i'll still try to hunt down a vintage tt with a terminal to make sure


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> but it hums without the tt even connected to it though. but sure i'll still try to hunt down a vintage tt with a terminal to make sure



If that is only when phono is selected that may be ok, if it does the same on the aux input there may be an issue.  Most likely a bad capacitor in the power supply.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

SpeakerBox said:


> If that is only when phono is selected that may be ok, if it does the same on the aux input there may be an issue.  Most likely a bad capacitor in the power supply.


yea only on phono. even without anything connected. and i switch to phono. it hums. on the aux channel it works like a charm.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> yea only on phono. even without anything connected. and i switch to phono. it hums. on the aux channel it works like a charm.



My guess is that if a TT ground was properly connected to the ground terminal on the Marantz it would not hum.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

SpeakerBox said:


> My guess is that if a TT ground was properly connected to the ground terminal on the Marantz it would not hum.


I'll give it a go either way, better rule out the issues 1 by 1 before jumping to conclusion. so yea time to find a vintage TT hahahaha


----------



## Monsterzero

Might be of interest to some,although not really vintage,per se.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

Monsterzero said:


> Might be of interest to some,although not really vintage,per se.




70-80s pioneer and technics are very tempting right now


----------



## Monsterzero

Pinksoshistuff said:


> 70-80s pioneer and technics are very tempting right now



As a former club DJ who learned the art on Technics 1200s,I can tell you theyre very nice TTs,though I dont have much experience with other models.


----------



## Van Isle

I'd lean towards a Technics rather than a Pioneer. Technics was known for their turntables, especially direct drive models, and many purchased them regardless of the brands of the rest of their equipment. Perhaps less-so for Pioneer. There's nothing technical that would preclude one brand over the other .... just avoidance of a 'hodge-podge' of equipment.

I have a SL-1210 Mk2 and I've had SL-1401, SL-1700, SL-1300, SL-1500 Mk2, SL-1800, SL-1800 Mk2, etc. All good. A few well-known issues here and there, none of which are really show-stoppers.  For me, I think the sweet spot would be a SL-1700 Mk2. It really is pretty-much a semi-automatic version of the SL-1210, with suspension and without the 'DJ-look' (which many don't really like). Basically same motor and Quartz-lock speed control, same tonearm (with height adjustment), etc. and capable of taking many of the mods developed for the SL-1200 /1210.

My SL-1210 sported a modded Rega tonearm up until a couple months ago. I'm putting the original back on with upgraded tonearm wiring, interconnects, fluid damper, external power supply, etc. (when I get back to it!).


----------



## kid vic

Pinksoshistuff said:


> Anyway new update, i rigged a ground from a UK 3 prong plug with only the ground cable connected onto the ground terminal of the marantz chassis and its still humming. im guessing the phono amp of the marantz need to be checked. i mean its a 70s amp and after so many years in storage something might have gone wrong. so yea gonna find a reliable repair guy to have a look at it. and i need to turn the volume up to like 12 o clock to barely hear anything if i plug the tt into the phono stage(Over the unbearing low end hum). and even so. only the right channel have sound. i know it isnt the speakers or anything cause if i run another source through the aux in, it works perfectly. anyway thanks for all the advice! I really learn a lot.( Vintage Technics TT looks very tempting to me now )
> 
> 
> 
> The speakers are Aiwa SX-N990 from an old Aiwa Hifi system my family owned when i was a kid. Honestly the speakers are pretty flat compare to my Yamaha HS-8 but with the Marantz EQ i was able to get an enjoyable sound out of it. Still hunting for a pair of NS-10m though





Pinksoshistuff said:


> yea only on phono. even without anything connected. and i switch to phono. it hums. on the aux channel it works like a charm.



It's pretty normal for there to be a slight hum when you switch to phono with or without something plugged in. I suspect that your ground cable job has done you no benefits but I could be wrong. If your in the UK there are a lot of brands that you can look into local to you (Rega, Linn, Sondeck for starters). Chances are that the cheapest of any of those will out perform your audio technica. However, if your not serious about throwing lots and lots of money at vinyl just skip it all together.


----------



## tumpux (Aug 27, 2019)

kid vic said:


> However, if your not serious about throwing lots and lots of money at vinyl just skip it all together.



t r u e

It’s much more satisfying nowadays to connect a chromecast audio to a healthy vintage setup than playing records with limited budget.


----------



## tumpux

Pinksoshistuff said:


> Anyway new update, i rigged a ground from a UK 3 prong plug with only the ground cable connected onto the ground terminal of the marantz chassis and its still humming. im guessing the phono amp of the marantz need to be checked. i mean its a 70s amp and after so many years in storage something might have gone wrong. so yea gonna find a reliable repair guy to have a look at it. and i need to turn the volume up to like 12 o clock to barely hear anything if i plug the tt into the phono stage(Over the unbearing low end hum). and even so. only the right channel have sound. i know it isnt the speakers or anything cause if i run another source through the aux in, it works perfectly.



Sounds like oxidized switches and potentiometers. A typical problem with barn find electronic appliances. I had a similar experience with my MA6200. 
I would get a good contact cleaners like deoxit, open the unit and clean all the switches and pots. Most likely it will solve 93.7% of the problems.


----------



## SpeakerBox

tumpux said:


> Sounds like oxidized switches and potentiometers. A typical problem with barn find electronic appliances. I had a similar experience with my MA6200.
> I would get a good contact cleaners like deoxit, open the unit and clean all the switches and pots. Most likely it will solve 93.7% of the problems.



93.7521 actually.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

kid vic said:


> It's pretty normal for there to be a slight hum when you switch to phono with or without something plugged in. I suspect that your ground cable job has done you no benefits but I could be wrong. If your in the UK there are a lot of brands that you can look into local to you (Rega, Linn, Sondeck for starters). Chances are that the cheapest of any of those will out perform your audio technica. However, if your not serious about throwing lots and lots of money at vinyl just skip it all together.



I'm from Malaysia actually so yea those are pretty expensive



tumpux said:


> t r u e
> 
> It’s much more satisfying nowadays to connect a chromecast audio to a healthy vintage setup than playing records with limited budget.



i also have a digital setup connected to a switcher into the aux in of the marantz. it sounded awesome


----------



## tumpux

Oh, malaysia. Apa kabar pak?
Just enjoy what you got there. No need to rush to get to the next one. Find the local audio community. Usually they have one or two gears that they want to unload for a reasonable price to their community members. Or just ‘dipinjamkan’ for indefinite period of time..


----------



## kid vic

Pinksoshistuff said:


> I'm from Malaysia actually so yea those are pretty expensive
> 
> 
> 
> i also have a digital setup connected to a switcher into the aux in of the marantz. it sounded awesome



I wonder why I thought you were in the UK? Sorry about that. I think that you should probably just leave the vinyl alone tbh...


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

Van Isle said:


> If vinyl is just a casual thing for you, I'd look to upgrade speakers 1st. Something nice and vintage to complement the Marantz. Mind-you, Aiwa did make some fairly decent speakers ... what model are they?
> 
> A Marantz turntable of the same vintage would be the 1st go-to for many in your position. However, they really are going for some silly prices these days. Many 'vintage' turntables would easily best your Audio Technica for a lot less $$.
> 
> ...



Speak of the devil the cap exploded today. oh well i guess i have to send it for a cap job asap


----------



## tumpux

Post a picture of the exploded cap


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> Speak of the devil the cap exploded today. oh well i guess i have to send it for a cap job asap



How were you listening when this happened? HPs, Speakers, Phono, etc.?  Anything shorted?


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

SpeakerBox said:


> How were you listening when this happened? HPs, Speakers, Phono, etc.?  Anything shorted?


dont think it was the phono. i wasnt even using the phono. it was just old caps that i dint check that was already bulging. already sent it to the repairman. said he will call me in a few days.


tumpux said:


> Post a picture of the exploded cap


unfortunately forgot to take a pic of it. already sent the amp to a tech


----------



## BobG55 (Aug 31, 2019)

*My Kenwood KA-8006 integrated amp, [1974].  I was with my brother when he bought this amp back in 1974.  He gave it to me some 10 years ago or so.  Needed a couple of shots of Deoxit D5 : vol. knob & tone control knobs.  She's purring again.*


----------



## UntilThen

Hi folks, I've not forgotten you. Here is a picture of my new listening station. 

Top to bottom:- Sansui au alpha 907mr, ALO Studio Six, Yggdrasil, Glenn OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

And a variation with Sansui AU-717 swapped in.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff (Sep 4, 2019)

It has return! Collected the Marantz and after the recap job it sounded way better and cleaner! no more weird noise when idling! no more scratchy pots after he lubed it up too


----------



## UntilThen

Pinksoshistuff said:


> It has return!



Your games console collection is quite amazing.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

UntilThen said:


> Your games console collection is quite amazing.


hahaha thanks. its always been a passion of mine


----------



## DRHamp

Here's my latest - I'm veering away from Sansui for a bit (except for my Sansui Eight which will be with me til I die) - just sold my AU-7900 to fund this very near mint Fisher 800C.  It's fully restored and as close to mint as you can get.  I have to say I've never heard anything like it - only on headphones for now, waiting for some banana plugs to connect it to my 
speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

That is very nice and it has tubes !  Congrats. A unit even I would love to own.


----------



## SpeakerBox

@DRHamp beautiful!   Like my Fisher 400, it will have a mid-range to die for.  Great on HD600.  Congrats!


----------



## Keno18

@DRHamp B-U-T-FUL!


----------



## SpeakerBox

There are some recommended mods to the Fisher receivers - one being the addition of output tube cathode resistors (10 ohms) so that you can monitor to see if the current is appropriate.  The resistors also act as a fuse if the tube goes rogue.  I have done this to my 400.  I also added a bias adjust so I can prevent the tubes from running too hot.


----------



## DRHamp

Thanks @SpeakerBox - I know he did the grid return resistor mod from 330ohm to 220ohm along with the coupling cap change and added an IBAM - I'll have to ask him about the cathode resistor.
It sounds phenomenal through my 800S headphones.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Sep 28, 2019)

I have to mention that the more I listen to the Fisher 400 via LS3/5As and HD600s the more I appreciate it.  It produces the purest sound I think I have ever heard.  You are just enveloped in this smooth and detailed musical nirvana.  Right now it is my go to piece of gear (although I am starting to build a First Watt F6 Clone via DIY audio and we will see how it stacks up against the Fisher - still collecting the parts).  Still keeping the 1250 for it's ability to produce gut punching sound .

Edit: and the Fisher has not even been completely re-tubed yet!


----------



## DRHamp

SpeakerBox said:


> I have to mention that the more I listen to the Fisher 400 via LS3/5As and HD600s the more I appreciate it.  It produces the purest sound I think I have ever heard.  You are just enveloped in this smooth and detailed musical nirvana.  Right now it is my go to piece of gear (although I am starting to build a First Watt F6 Clone via DIY audio and we will see how it stacks up against the Fisher - still collecting the parts).  Still keeping the 1250 for it's ability to produce gut punching sound .
> 
> Edit: and the Fisher has not even been completely re-tubed yet![/QUOTE
> 
> ...


----------



## SpeakerBox

@DRHamp I have not heard the LS50s, but would like to.  Have had my LS3/5As for over 40 years and will never part with them.  Not the last word in bass, but OH that mid-range!


----------



## tumpux

Pinksoshistuff said:


> It has return! Collected the Marantz and after the recap job it sounded way better and cleaner! no more weird noise when idling! no more scratchy pots after he lubed it up too



Just wonder, how much does it cost to service this amp in malaysia?


----------



## GreenNeedle (Sep 29, 2019)

Pinksoshistuff said:


> Anyway new update, i rigged a ground from a UK 3 prong plug with only the ground cable connected onto the ground terminal of the marantz chassis and its still humming. im guessing the phono amp of the marantz need to be checked. i mean its a 70s amp and after so many years in storage something might have gone wrong. so yea gonna find a reliable repair guy to have a look at it. and i need to turn the volume up to like 12 o clock to barely hear anything if i plug the tt into the phono stage(Over the unbearing low end hum). and even so. only the right channel have sound. i know it isnt the speakers or anything cause if i run another source through the aux in, it works perfectly. anyway thanks for all the advice! I really learn a lot.( Vintage Technics TT looks very tempting to me now )
> 
> 
> 
> The speakers are Aiwa SX-N990 from an old Aiwa Hifi system my family owned when i was a kid. Honestly the speakers are pretty flat compare to my Yamaha HS-8 but with the Marantz EQ i was able to get an enjoyable sound out of it. Still hunting for a pair of NS-10m though



I had an NSX-d939 from the year it was released circa 1994 (shiny, shiny pro logic new toy with neon green lights) right through to 2009.  That unit is to blame for me selling all my vinyl because it sounded so so good and the future didn't involve vinyl.  I hate (these days) that unit for sounding that good   although I was pretty crushed when it perished through child interference.  crushed biscuits in CD tray.  Broken motor on the amp/effects control tray, mid tweeter pushed in etc.

I suspect those Aiwa speakers (3 way?) you have will sound much better than your average "stock" midi speakers.  Bit bassy though with that massive port along the bottom and some cymbals can sound a bit overpowering on some records.  I don't think they'll match what the Marantz can give though.

The D939 was quite far up the aiwa chain at the time.  Speakers look pretty similar although I think the 990 was a slightly paired down version a few years later?

This isn't my picture as I wasn't into taking pictures of audio equipment back then  but I used to put the 2 parts side by side rather than on top of each other like this picture.  Those aren't the original speakers in that picture though.  Way bigger.  Maybe the owner went for more watts? The one downer was that this era the outer plastic had some sort of matt rubbery coating and it attracted dust and grease from fingers like a static magnet.:


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

GreenNeedle said:


> I had an NSX-d939 from the year it was released circa 1994 (shiny, shiny pro logic new toy with neon green lights) right through to 2009.  That unit is to blame for me selling all my vinyl because it sounded so so good and the future didn't involve vinyl.  I hate (these days) that unit for sounding that good   although I was pretty crushed when it perished through child interference.  crushed biscuits in CD tray.  Broken motor on the amp/effects control tray, mid tweeter pushed in etc.
> 
> I suspect those Aiwa speakers (3 way?) you have will sound much better than your average "stock" midi speakers.  Bit bassy though with that massive port along the bottom and some cymbals can sound a bit overpowering on some records.  I don't think they'll match what the Marantz can give though.
> 
> ...



oddly enough i think it did an ok job with the marantz. (but maybe its just what im use to listening because i had tons of hours with it since i was a kid). the only complaint i have is its less "full" sounding so i have to bump up the bass on the marantz eq. im just used to having bigger speakers cause i have a pair of yamaha HS-8. and yes its 3 way. mids and highs are awesome! honestly i wanna get a pair of yamaha ns-10 to see what the fuzz is about.



tumpux said:


> Just wonder, how much does it cost to service this amp in malaysia?



the cap job and clean up cost me about 20usd


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

I need a recommendation. What cheap desktop dac would you guys recommend for a hifi setup? only specifications i need is it having DSD support, Optical in, USB or even apple usb *fingers cross but not a must*. currently running the JDM Pioneer XPA700 and it works like a charm but yet want something static that will stay there instead of keep unpluging it everytime i go out.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> I need a recommendation. What cheap desktop dac would you guys recommend for a hifi setup? only specifications i need is it having DSD support, Optical in, USB or even apple usb *fingers cross but not a must*. currently running the JDM Pioneer XPA700 and it works like a charm but yet want something static that will stay there instead of keep unpluging it everytime i go out.



The musical fidelity V90 Dac can be had for around $200 or less.  Not sure if that is cheap enough though.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

SpeakerBox said:


> The musical fidelity V90 Dac can be had for around $200 or less.  Not sure if that is cheap enough though.



that is a very interesting suggestion. and the price is alright. not a brand im very familiar of because of where im from but im very interested in it


----------



## Keno18

Pinksoshistuff said:


> I need a recommendation. What cheap desktop dac would you guys recommend for a hifi setup? only specifications i need is it having DSD support, Optical in, USB or even apple usb *fingers cross but not a must*. currently running the JDM Pioneer XPA700 and it works like a charm but yet want something static that will stay there instead of keep unpluging it everytime i go out.


The Topping D50 S comes to mind, $200 on Drop.com or $249.95 on Amazon. Up to DSD512.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> that is a very interesting suggestion. and the price is alright. not a brand im very familiar of because of where im from but im very interested in it



I have one and think it sounds quite good.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

anyway i found a new issue with the marantz. since i dint get to fix the phono stage yet. i finally figured out the issue. the left channel is dead. so yea need to send that to the tech some day when im free enough  for now ill just run the line input


----------



## ruXx

I'm looking for an integrated amp to complement my hifiman arya headphones.

Qualities im looking for: Tight bass control, a bit forward midrange, a little laid back treble (the aryas treble is a tiny bit bright especially in the 9-11k range) and good soundstage.
Im mainly looking in the sub $400 area.
Main concern is headphone out quality, thereafter features, though some of these have a lot of connectivity that looks sweet.
I would really love an integrated dac if it doesnt come at the cost of quality.

Ive picked out a few candidates in my area that i've been reading about, and hope someone can guide me in the right direction:
These are all within my budget, so cost is not a factor.

Pioneer:
Pioneer A10AE
Pioneer A40AE
Pioneer SX-10AE
Pioneer SX-20DAB

Denon:
Denon PMA-520AE
Denon RCD-M41

NAD:
NAD C316BEE v2

Onkyo:
Onkyo A-9130
Onkyo A-9110
Onkyo TX-8220
Onkyo TX-8130

Yamaha:
Yamaha A-S501
Yamaha A-S301
Yamaha R-N402D
Yamaha R-N303


----------



## Monsterzero

The Onkyo and Pioneers Ive owned are a bit brighter than others Ive had. Perhaps check into a Sansui or Marantz unit.


----------



## ruXx

Monsterzero said:


> The Onkyo and Pioneers Ive owned are a bit brighter than others Ive had. Perhaps check into a Sansui or Marantz unit.



Thanks for your input.
Which other amps have you had and how would you rate them?

I looked at the Marantz PM5005 and m-cr511, but a lot of reviews complained about build quality and component failure, which turned me away from them.
I have not seen any sansui amps in my country (Norway).


----------



## Monsterzero

ruXx said:


> Thanks for your input.
> Which other amps have you had and how would you rate them?
> 
> I looked at the Marantz PM5005 and m-cr511, but a lot of reviews complained about build quality and component failure, which turned me away from them.
> I have not seen any sansui amps in my country (Norway).


 Check my signature. 
I own receivers as opposed to amps,simply because I prefer the looks of receivers. @UntilThen has owned several Sansui amps,but I think well above your price point.
The Sansui 881 has some of the best mids ive heard. Warm sound with rolled off treble. The Sansui 5000a is like a warm blanket. Ultra warm,with crazy bass.

So not each unit from the same company will sound identical. Unfortunately I havent owned any of the other companies you mentioned. Perhaps one of those will work for you,I simply cannot say.


----------



## UntilThen

ruXx said:


> Qualities im looking for: Tight bass control, a bit forward midrange, a little laid back treble (the aryas treble is a tiny bit bright especially in the 9-11k range) and good soundstage.



I've just the amp you're looking for but unfortunately it's at the top end of the scale. It's the Sansui AU-Alpha 907MR.

The other Sansui that I can think of is the Sansui AU-7700. This is much cheaper and has similar attributes to what you're looking for. All the Sansui units have great headphone out because you're really listening to the amp with a resistor in place to make it suitable for headphones.


----------



## kid vic

ruXx said:


> I'm looking for an integrated amp to complement my hifiman arya headphones.
> 
> Qualities im looking for: Tight bass control, a bit forward midrange, a little laid back treble (the aryas treble is a tiny bit bright especially in the 9-11k range) and good soundstage.
> Im mainly looking in the sub $400 area.
> ...



I'm glad to have steered you into this den of evil!
Personally, I run all of my planars straight off of the speaker taps (just solder a 4-pin XLR cable to the end of two speaker cables and you are all set). I recommend Yamaha and Kenwood for slightly rolled off treble, I had an Akai that was very similar in its sound sig to the Yamaha but big, silverface wood bodied amps are sexier. Of the Yamahas you put up I would go for the A-S501, however, if you can find a CA-600 thats cheaper and in good condition I would consider that first.


----------



## tumpux

kid vic said:


> Personally, I run all of my planars straight off of the speaker taps (just solder a 4-pin XLR cable to the end of two speaker cables and you are all set).



Would you mind to share more details on the pin configurations? I always want to do it.
Is it work with all kind of amps?
I think the integrated amps with volume pot would be more convenient for this.


----------



## kid vic

tumpux said:


> Would you mind to share more details on the pin configurations? I always want to do it.
> Is it work with all kind of amps?
> I think the integrated amps with volume pot would be more convenient for this.



It's super simple, this is the diagram I use (this depicts the back end of the plug). You don't have any choice but to use it with something that has a volume knob, integrated or pre-power combo. It will work with any kind of amp that has speaker outputs, I personally wouldn't try it with anything that does more than 130WPC into 8ohms (arbitrary cutoff). Try this at your own peril, I've done it with all my planars (HE-500, LCD-3, Ether Flow1.1) but I would never do it with dynamics. Some say it works perfectly for dynamics but I'm not tempted.

The Ether Flows pick up the most hum but I can even hear it with my HE-500s; for any Abyss, Susvara or LCD-4 owners this is a potentially cheap way to get the best power into there headphones at a reasonable price, especially if you already have a speaker setup.


----------



## tumpux

Thank you. So you're using it with an HE-500. Which amp that you use to power it?
How about the volume level, do you have to use a very low volume?


----------



## richard51 (Oct 2, 2019)

I drive all my headphone  with the Sansui AU 7700, but especially Orthodynamics gained with this pairing made in heaven...My last ortho is the Fostex T10 (one of the first ortho 1977) that outclass all my other headphone, and the headphone out of the Sansui is revealing the sound of the amp.itself : warm but detailed, with powerful bass but without any traces of muddy bass on the mids, and an imaging power that will contribute with the right source to bliss...I had one of the alpha more refined series and this is Sansui refinement but with more analytic powers without any harshness... I am in love with the organic flowing "tube sound"  of the Au-7700 tough, without any details loss...The pairing with my Mission Cyrus speakers, a relaxed british sound, is heavenly... The T10 would gained something more with  the Alpha Sansui tough...(I will reconnect it in the times coming only for this headphone)...
I will never sold my 2 Sansuis for any price seen in the market.. That is my testimonies about their headphone out : perfect...
My best to all here...


----------



## Monsterzero

tumpux said:


> Thank you. So you're using it with an HE-500. Which amp that you use to power it?
> How about the volume level, do you have to use a very low volume?


  IMO the HE500 doesnt need speaker tap treatment. I tried it from taps and I noticed slightly cleaner bass vs. HP jack,but nothing dramatic. The downside of taps is you have very little wiggle room on the volume between silent and blasting,whereas from HP jack you have plenty of room for volume adjustment.

HE6,Abyss,and perhaps a couple others,speaker taps is the only way to go. YMMV.


----------



## musicman59

I am looking for a good condition analog parametric equalizer. Anybody with any leads?
Thanks.


----------



## Blommen

Monsterzero said:


> IMO the HE500 doesnt need speaker tap treatment. I tried it from taps and I noticed slightly cleaner bass vs. HP jack,but nothing dramatic. The downside of taps is you have very little wiggle room on the volume between silent and blasting,whereas from HP jack you have plenty of room for volume adjustment.
> 
> HE6,Abyss,and perhaps a couple others,speaker taps is the only way to go. YMMV.



I agree. But, with that said, if someone is dead set on speaker taps then the solution is a pre-amp. I use my Sony TA Z1hes as dac/pre-amp into a Sansui AU 907, which gives me very fine volume control via the Sony... I don't use speakers taps but still I would guess it applies to those as well.


----------



## kid vic

Monsterzero said:


> IMO the HE500 doesnt need speaker tap treatment. I tried it from taps and I noticed slightly cleaner bass vs. HP jack,but nothing dramatic. The downside of taps is you have very little wiggle room on the volume between silent and blasting,whereas from HP jack you have plenty of room for volume adjustment.
> 
> HE6,Abyss,and perhaps a couple others,speaker taps is the only way to go. YMMV.





Blommen said:


> I agree. But, with that said, if someone is dead set on speaker taps then the solution is a pre-amp. I use my Sony TA Z1hes as dac/pre-amp into a Sansui AU 907, which gives me very fine volume control via the Sony... I don't use speakers taps but still I would guess it applies to those as well.



YMMV. I hear a massive difference in the HE500 and LCD-3 via taps, the Ether Flow less but sufficient. On my amp (Kenwood KA-9100) I use the -10dbz switch which gives me much better volume control on the LCD-3 and flow. 

I have used integrateds for this purpose everytime so I don't see why a pre power combo makes sense as the only option? If you have a pre that has certain functions or a specific sound then sure, otherwise there's no advantage I can think of.


----------



## penmarker

Planars get a lot more benefit out of speaker taps because they're usually harder to drive and they have a linear impedance through the audio band. Or so I've been told.


----------



## richard51

Not only that, planars are harder to drive, then they love the headphone out of vintage amplifier....But mostly, vintage amplifier love planars, because they enhance their original sound quality, without suffering or struggling with their raw direct power … Owner of a Sansui, I prefer an Ortho in the headphone out to any dynamic, except perhaps 600 ohms one...


----------



## kid vic

penmarker said:


> Planars get a lot more benefit out of speaker taps because they're usually harder to drive and they have a linear impedance through the audio band. Or so I've been told.



I agree with whoever told you that. I almost prefer Planars through speaker taps over my Dynaudios through the same taps..... Almost but not quite


----------



## Tacanacy

I want to buy a Sansui 881 and I'm wondering if anyone would be able to tell me if it would need to be serviced if I show photos that the seller sent me. Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iffy1mdoz7oqh8n/AAD10JwwU7MYZ6mNWgEZR3Yfa?dl=0

I was suggested to give @petemac110 a mention.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Tacanacy said:


> I want to buy a Sansui 881 and I'm wondering if anyone would be able to tell me if it would need to be serviced if I show photos that the seller sent me. Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iffy1mdoz7oqh8n/AAD10JwwU7MYZ6mNWgEZR3Yfa?dl=0
> 
> I was suggested to give @petemac110 a mention.



Any piece of gear in the 40+ year old range will need a total recap and servicing.  Sometimes you are lucky and it keeps working but to get the most out of it the recap and servicing is recommended.


----------



## Tacanacy

SpeakerBox said:


> Any piece of gear in the 40+ year old range will need a total recap and servicing.  Sometimes you are lucky and it keeps working but to get the most out of it the recap and servicing is recommended.



Yes, but the seller may have done that. I wouldn't know the difference.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Tacanacy said:


> Yes, but the seller may have done that. I wouldn't know the difference.



From what I can see in the pics, the electrolytic caps have not been replaced.


----------



## petemac110

SpeakerBox said:


> From what I can see in the pics, the electrolytic caps have not been replaced.



Correcto - she's 100% original internally.

An initial service would be the first port of call for an amp of this age - checking/adjusting bias and DC offset and cleaning/lubricating switches and controls etc. If the budget allows, a proper restoration will yield the best sonic results and ensure reliable operation into the future.


----------



## SpeakerBox

petemac110 said:


> Correcto - she's 100% original internally.
> 
> An initial service would be the first port of call for an amp of this age - checking/adjusting bias and DC offset and cleaning/lubricating switches and controls etc. If the budget allows, a proper restoration will yield the best sonic results and ensure reliable operation into the future.



Of course a recap will necessitate re-adjustment of the settings - so in general it is best to recap first and then set per service manual, IMHO.


----------



## Monsterzero

Tacanacy said:


> I want to buy a Sansui 881 and I'm wondering if anyone would be able to tell me if it would need to be serviced if I show photos that the seller sent me. Here's the link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iffy1mdoz7oqh8n/AAD10JwwU7MYZ6mNWgEZR3Yfa?dl=0
> 
> I was suggested to give @petemac110 a mention.


 The 881 is a fantastic sounding receiver. The best of the six I own. Highly recommend giving it the TLC it needs and it will reward you with a nice warm,musical sound,with great mids.


----------



## UntilThen

I’m sending my Sansui au Alpha 907mr for a full body works to my Sansui’s guru - Pete’s Dad.


----------



## Tacanacy

Who would you recommend for servicing a Sansui 881?


----------



## petemac110

SpeakerBox said:


> Of course a recap will necessitate re-adjustment of the settings - so in general it is best to recap first and then set per service manual, IMHO.



Absolutely!

The restoration process would include an adjustment, heatsoak testing and monitoring period at the end of the resto.

 You’d only adjust the amp first if there was no intention of restoring the amp in the immediate future.


----------



## petemac110 (Oct 12, 2019)

Tacanacy said:


> Who would you recommend for servicing a Sansui 881?



You will need to find a suitably experienced/qualified tech or hobbyist in your local area. Are there any general or vintage audio forums in Norway where you can search for someone? You could always try audiokarma.org.


----------



## northendjazz

A recapped sansui 800 is my daily driver at work, I also have a G-401 waiting for a service when I find time and someone in the UK to recap it. With the G-401 I will have the chance to hear the difference between orignal and recapped, the 800 came recapped and is sublime with all its sansui goodness.


----------



## atarione (Oct 22, 2019)

So I just took this off a shelf... I got it a couple years ago and never really used it other than to see if it worked .. I started having issues with the old Kenwood KR-V106R I had on my desk and hooked this Yamaha RX-700U (65WPC 8ohms .009THD from specs) and it is a revelation this is one sweet receiver  pair w/ some 90s JBL L1 bookshelf speakers ...  and it sounds superb but what is blowing my mind is how good the headphone section is...  I own Fostex T50RP's mk3's I rarely  use because I hadn't found a amp I liked them with much.. well that all changed today.. because I'm quite stoked on how the T50's sound with the Yammy.. good stuff..


----------



## SpeakerBox

Yamaha made some great receivers back in the day.  Would love to get my hands one of the old CR-2010 receivers.


----------



## atarione

SpeakerBox said:


> Yamaha made some great receivers back in the day.  Would love to get my hands one of the old CR-2010 receivers.



oh yeah.. a CR-2010 would be something ... what is strange (to me) I have a TOTL Sony ES Stack from ~1989 (TA-N77ES /TA-E77ESD ..etc) and this yammy absolutely kills the sony's headphone output section to my ears it is no contest the mid range yammy all day. 

on the upside with driving my Yamaha NS-344 10" 3ways the sony is quite good indeed. and it looks kewl?

 

(es stack to left perhaps obviously)


----------



## BobG55

atarione said:


> oh yeah.. a CR-2010 would be something ... what is strange (to me) I have a TOTL Sony ES Stack from ~1989 (TA-N77ES /TA-E77ESD ..etc) and this yammy absolutely kills the sony's headphone output section to my ears it is no contest the mid range yammy all day.
> 
> on the upside with driving my Yamaha NS-344 10" 3ways the sony is quite good indeed. and it looks kewl?
> 
> ...



Woh.  Very nice set-up atarione.  I'm also guessing you live in Seattle or in the vicinity (I have a gift for detecting these things )


----------



## SpeakerBox

atarione said:


> oh yeah.. a CR-2010 would be something ... what is strange (to me) I have a TOTL Sony ES Stack from ~1989 (TA-N77ES /TA-E77ESD ..etc) and this yammy absolutely kills the sony's headphone output section to my ears it is no contest the mid range yammy all day.
> 
> on the upside with driving my Yamaha NS-344 10" 3ways the sony is quite good indeed. and it looks kewl?
> 
> ...



Very nice gear!


----------



## atarione

BobG55 said:


> Woh.  Very nice set-up atarione.  I'm also guessing you live in Seattle or in the vicinity (I have a gift for detecting these things )



lol... I wish I was still in Seattle.. I'm currently living in Exile near Los Angles... but I remain loyal to my Seahawks / Mariners ... I did/do want to move home soon if possible.. however after going to Ireland this spring my plan is "evolving" to instead get a job in Dublin and move to Ireland instead.. but I am seriously willing to consider NOT LOS ANGLES options =p

Don't want to think how much it would cost to ship that sony stack to Ireland however?   and I'd go broke on voltage adapters ??


----------



## SpeakerBox

atarione said:


> lol... I wish I was still in Seattle.. I'm currently living in Exile near Los Angles... but I remain loyal to my Seahawks / Mariners ... I did/do want to move home soon if possible.. however after going to Ireland this spring my plan is "evolving" to instead get a job in Dublin and move to Ireland instead.. but I am seriously willing to consider NOT LOS ANGLES options =p
> 
> Don't want to think how much it would cost to ship that sony stack to Ireland however?   and I'd go broke on voltage adapters ??



The hawks are a good team.  Was surprised they lost this past week.  Your gear is probably good enough to worth the power adapters.  Nice stuff.


----------



## northendjazz

Snagged two lots this week that sit either side of my vintage sansui's, the local auction strikes again with a Pioneer PL112D turntable with a pair of celef monitor speakers another lot a pair of Akg K240 sextett's EP? 
Early days on the Pioneer PL112D I just rolled it straight into my system, sounds very good without checking anything it betters my Technics .  
The Question mark on the Akg K240's is are they EP's they have the waffle grill,  the diffusers are pale orange like my other MP's but they sound different with more bass/thump. We all know how well they pair with vintage recievers/amps so does it really matter if they are EP's ? Not really and only when buying or selling. Done the buying of them and I won't be selling!
The Celef Monitor's are a little large for my current listening space but what the future holds?


----------



## SpeakerBox

northendjazz said:


> Snagged two lots this week that sit either side of my vintage sansui's, the local auction strikes again with a Pioneer PL112D turntable with a pair of celef monitor speakers another lot a pair of Akg K240 sextett's EP?
> Early days on the Pioneer PL112D I just rolled it straight into my system, sounds very good without checking anything it betters my Technics .
> The Question mark on the Akg K240's is are they EP's they have the waffle grill,  the diffusers are pale orange like my other MP's but they sound different with more bass/thump. We all know how well they pair with vintage recievers/amps so does it really matter if they are EP's ? Not really and only when buying or selling. Done the buying of them and I won't be selling!
> The Celef Monitor's are a little large for my current listening space but what the future holds?



Sounds like a nice haul @northendjazz.  Congrats!


----------



## BobG55 (Oct 29, 2019)

northendjazz said:


> Snagged two lots this week that sit either side of my vintage sansui's, the local auction strikes again with a Pioneer PL112D turntable with a pair of celef monitor speakers another lot a pair of Akg K240 sextett's EP?
> Early days on the Pioneer PL112D I just rolled it straight into my system, sounds very good without checking anything it betters my Technics .
> The Question mark on the Akg K240's is are they EP's they have the waffle grill,  the diffusers are pale orange like my other MP's but they sound different with more bass/thump. We all know how well they pair with vintage recievers/amps so does it really matter if they are EP's ? Not really and only when buying or selling. Done the buying of them and I won't be selling!
> The Celef Monitor's are a little large for my current listening space but what the future holds?



Congratulations northenjazz.  A member who could probably help you with the AKG K240 Sextetts is Monsterzero.  You can maybe send him a message.  I know he talks about different AKG 240 models on a YouTube video he made.


----------



## northendjazz

BobG55 said:


> Congratulations northenjazz.  A member who could probably help you with the AKG K240 Sextetts is Monsterzero.  You can maybe send him a message.  I know he talks about different AKG 240 models on a YouTube video he made.



Yep, when I have some pic's I can send a pm,  I think it was Monsterzero's posts here and on youtube that put me on to the K240's, I snagged some true k240 sextett s EP's on ebay last night so I will have a direct comparison next week.

Its thanks to the good people of this thread that apart from portable gear all my headphone amps are vintage receiver/amps, source gear is mix as I don't have room for 800+ LP's plus some stuff is not on vinyl anyway


----------



## Silent One

UntilThen said:


> I’m sending my Sansui au Alpha 907mr for a full body works to my Sansui’s guru - Pete’s Dad.


Re: Team Sansui

We gotta Sansui guru here in Pete’s Dad...say wot? Thinking about giving my big G some TLC. SoCal maybe? On another note, HE-6 on taps is still addicting!


----------



## UntilThen

Silent One said:


> Re: Team Sansui
> 
> We gotta Sansui guru here in Pete’s Dad...say wot? Thinking about giving my big G some TLC. SoCal maybe? On another note, HE-6 on taps is still addicting!



@petemac110 Dad is the Sansui guru but he is in Sydney Australia. 

So you can send your big G to me and I’ll pass to him lol.

Hmmm I bet the HE-6 will sound great on speaker taps off the Sansui 907mr.


----------



## henree

I have been interested in trying to use my Nad Power Envelope 7250 reciever speaker taps to power my HE-400 planar headphones. Is there something commercial I can buy to do this safely.


----------



## Monsterzero

henree said:


> I have been interested in trying to use my Nad Power Envelope 7250 reciever speaker taps to power my HE-400 planar headphones. Is there something commercial I can buy to do this safely.


 HiFiMan makes a contraption you can buy to use taps,but from my understanding it degrades the sound quality. Otherwise your best bet is to find a custom cable maker and have a cable made with 4 bare speaker wires on one end,and the HiFiMan interconnects on the other end.
All that being said,the HE400 isnt silly hard to drive like the HE6 is,so im not really sure as to why you want to try taps.


----------



## northendjazz

henree said:


> I have been interested in trying to use my Nad Power Envelope 7250 reciever speaker taps to power my HE-400 planar headphones. Is there something commercial I can buy to do this safely.



I have something like this :-
eBay item number: 172733761468

I say like as I can't remember who made it, you will need approriate balanced cable for the He-400's


----------



## DRHamp (Dec 8, 2019)

I recently posted a photo of my Fisher 800C tube receiver and needless to say, I've really become hooked on this vintage tube gear.  My latest addition is a Fisher X-200 tube integrated amp.  Again, 7591s in the output and it's equal to the 800C in every way except FM.  I may have to re-think my previous comment about my Sansui Eight receiver.


----------



## UntilThen

DRHamp said:


> I recently posted a photo of my Fisher 800C tube receiver and needless to say, I've really become hooked on this vintage tube gear.  My latest addition is a Fisher X-200 tube integrated amp.  Again, 7591s in the output and it's equal to the 800C in every way except FM.  I may have to re-think my previous comment about my Sansui Eight receiver.



Yggdrasil into Vintage amps. Similar to my setup. It’s lovely. I still have my 2 Sansui amps.


----------



## DRHamp

UntilThen said:


> Yggdrasil into Vintage amps. Similar to my setup. It’s lovely. I still have my 2 Sansui amps.


Yes, the Yggy can be a difference make IMO


----------



## SpeakerBox

DRHamp said:


> I recently posted a photo of my Fisher 800C tube receiver and needless to say, I've really become hooked on this vintage tube gear.  My latest addition is a Fisher X-200 tube integrated amp.  Again, 7591s in the output and it's equal to the 800C in every way except FM.  I may have to re-think my previous comment about my Sansui Eight receiver.



Beautiful gear!


----------



## penmarker

Monsterzero said:


> HiFiMan makes a contraption you can buy to use taps,*but from my understanding it degrades the sound quality*. Otherwise your best bet ...
> (snip).


it won't, and it shouldn't. There's only a network of resistors in it.



immtbiker said:


> In case anyone is interested, I took some shots of a loaned HE-6 Adapter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 8, 2019)

penmarker said:


> it won't, and it shouldn't. There's only a network of resistors in it.


 Vintage receivers tap off of the speaker amp to drive headphones,with only resistors in-between. I think if you ask any owners in this thread who have done an a/b of SQ from HP jack vs. taps you will find at the minimum,marginal degradation coming from the HP jack.
I used to own both the HE500 and HE6. With the HE6 I had no choice but to use taps. I tried the HE500 just for giggles,even though the jack drove them just fine. Taps provided a somewhat cleaner sound.
To be clear I did not use the HiFiMan dongle thing. I had a custom cable made that terminated in bare speaker wire, +/- for both the R and L channels.


----------



## penmarker

My guess is if there's only that resistor network to attenuate their headphone out, the sound quality would be the same if you volume match them.


----------



## Mataugust (Dec 9, 2019)

henree said:


> I have been interested in trying to use my Nad Power Envelope 7250 reciever speaker taps to power my HE-400 planar headphones. Is there something commercial I can buy to do this safely.



You can use Hifiman HE Adapter. I used it for HE-6 on a Nad 302, great result
Need to balance the headphonen though


----------



## Mataugust (Dec 9, 2019)

I'm using a Luxman LV-107u & Grado GS1000/AKG K872. Sounds great. My friend has a Liquid Crimson, and though the Crimson is better, i was surprised that the difference was rather small.
Tried at at meet to hear different amps priced $500-$1000, and the Luxman was far better.
Have a dream of trying a Luxman L-540 or L-550.


----------



## kid vic

Monsterzero said:


> Vintage receivers tap off of the speaker amp to drive headphones,with only resistors in-between. I think if you ask any owners in this thread who have done an a/b of SQ from HP jack vs. taps you will find at the minimum,marginal degradation coming from the HP jack.
> I used to own both the HE500 and HE6. With the HE6 I had no choice but to use taps. I tried the HE500 just for giggles,even though the jack drove them just fine. Taps provided a somewhat cleaner sound.
> To be clear I did not use the HiFiMan dongle thing. I had a custom cable made that terminated in bare speaker wire, +/- for both the R and L channels.



Agreed, I prefer my HE-500, LCD-3 and Mr. Speaker Ether flow all direct from the taps over the headphone jack. Cleaner sound, more articulate bass, better imaging and a much more speaker like presentation.


----------



## Oregonian

I tried the HFM adapter thing a couple of times and in my opinion it made a definite downgrade to the sound compared to straight out of the speaker taps.  No question in my mind - tried it on two different systems with same results.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Close call yesterday.  Turned on the Fisher 400 Receiver and no sound.  Front panel lights on and output tubes glowing.  No sound.  This morning I opened it up and found a shorted 12AX7 in the preamp section.  Had a spare and replaced.  Up and running!


----------



## DJtheAudiophile

I know this isn’t a speaker thread, but this is a vintage item. Anyone know if the woofer can be fixed?


----------



## SpeakerBox

@DJtheAudiophile: It should be possible to have the woofer re-foamed.  You might take the woofer out and get the model number and do some searches on line.


----------



## Monsterzero

Im no expert on repairing speakers,but I looked into repairing a pair of speakers that came with my house that are from the early 60's. I found places that sell the parts to do a refoam,and places that will do the repair for you as well.
I ended up not doing anything,and bought a pair of Rectilinear Highboys instead.

IIRC if resell value is important to you make sure to get a direct replacement for the woofer as using a 3rd party sub apparently makes the speaker less valuable to folks in the know.


----------



## DRHamp

SpeakerBox said:


> This morning I opened it up and found a shorted 12AX7 in the preamp section. Had a spare and replaced. Up and running!


@SpeakerBox  - what led you initially to the 12AX7?


----------



## SpeakerBox (Dec 10, 2019)

DRHamp said:


> @SpeakerBox  - what led you initially to the 12AX7?



I put the unit on my bench with a DIM bulb tester.  Fired it up and scanned all the tubes visually.  Found one that was not lit up.  On closer inspection the ring at the top had come loose and was contacting another part of the tube (short).  Pulled and replaced and all was well.  The DIM bulb tester is what alerted me to short.  Bulb glowing bright.


----------



## DRHamp

SpeakerBox said:


> I put the unit on my bench with a DIM bulb tester. Fired it up and scanned all the tubes visually. Found one that was not lit up. On closer inspection the ring at the top had come loose and was contacting another part of the tube (short). Pulled and replaced and all was well. The DIM bulb tester is what alerted me to short. Bulb glowing bright.


Ok, was just wondering how you isolated it to the tube -- thanks


----------



## Skylab

Parts Express both sells speaker re-foam kits, and also offers a service where they will do it for you (which is much more expensive because you have to ship the woofers both ways)

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-repair-parts/23

I refoamed the woofers in my Infinity Kappas myself, it took a whole evening but it did come out well. I had them do the woofers in my Pioneer DSS-9’s, though, because the cones are graphite and they can be fragile.


----------



## SpeakerBox

DRHamp said:


> Ok, was just wondering how you isolated it to the tube -- thanks



DIM bulb testers are very handy.  There is a thread in AK on how to make one.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Here is another piece of vintage gear I am working on.  A Fisher Chadwick console:

 

This belonged to my father-in-law and currently has a broken power switch.  Looking for a suitable replacement.


----------



## DRHamp

SpeakerBox said:


> Here is another piece of vintage gear I am working on. A Fisher Chadwick console:



What amp is in it @SpeakerBox.  Very nice console cabinet - wish I had room for one of the 60s Fisher Consoles.  I think I read that this model came with a 660A amp - right?


----------



## SpeakerBox

DRHamp said:


> What amp is in it @SpeakerBox.  Very nice console cabinet - wish I had room for one of the 60s Fisher Consoles.  I think I read that this model came with a 660A amp - right?



My recollection is that it is a 460, but need to recheck that.  Eventually I will re-cap and re-tube the entire unit.  Want to bring it back to its original glory.


----------



## DRHamp

SpeakerBox said:


> My recollection is that it is a 460


A quick look at the output tubes should tell you -- I think the 460s were EL84/7189 and the 660s were 7591s  but you probably knew all that.
again nice piece!


----------



## SpeakerBox

DRHamp said:


> A quick look at the output tubes should tell you -- I think the 460s were EL84/7189 and the 660s were 7591s  but you probably knew all that.
> again nice piece!



Just checked - 460A.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff (Dec 22, 2019)

New source devices for the setup! Found it for dirt cheap


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice haul!


----------



## Majestyk

I have a Yamaha CR-620 and some headphones, like the Sennheiser HD600 and Hifiman HE-500 have a bit too much of a muddy character about them. Using the tone controls helps but I was wondering what the best approach would be to lower the impedance of the headphone output. Would an impedance adapter work? (Not sure where to get one) or should i try the speaker taps?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Majestyk said:


> I have a Yamaha CR-620 and some headphones, like the Sennheiser HD600 and Hifiman HE-500 have a bit too much of a muddy character about them. Using the tone controls helps but I was wondering what the best approach would be to lower the impedance of the headphone output. Would an impedance adapter work? (Not sure where to get one) or should i try the speaker taps?



Before worrying about adapters, I would have the unit restored (recap, bias adjust, deoxit, etc.).  Restoration makes a huge difference.  The 620 is a good piece of gear.


----------



## Majestyk (Jan 1, 2020)

I'm not sure if it needs to be recapped. It hasn't been used a great deal in its life-time and some headphones like my AKG K612's actually have too much treble.


----------



## penmarker

The 620 were made in 1977-1979. I'd be worried and have it restored asap.
I was born in 1989, that thing is older than me.


----------



## Majestyk

Worried? Let's not get carried away.

BTW, does anyone know where to buy something like this?

http://apuresound.com/ra.html

Unfortunately this guy is long out of business.


----------



## Majestyk

Ok, upon further listening I've come to the conclusion that the muddiness is in my head. Both the Hifiman HE-500 and the Sennheiser HD600 are new to me and I've been so dialed in to AKG headphones over the years that the laid back nature of the aforementioned headphones were a little jarring at first. These are of course are not treble-centric. But now I'm finding myself leaving the treble and bass in the flat position when listening to them. Some tracks I'll still put the HE-500's to the +1 on the treble dial and the HD600's -1 on the bass dial.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Majestyk said:


> Worried? Let's not get carried away.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know where to buy something like this?
> 
> ...



The point is that you really can't overstate the positive impact that restoration will make on a 40 year old vintage piece.


----------



## Majestyk

I don't think I'd bother recapping a CR-620. Maybe some day I'll get something beefier like a 1020 or higher and get that recapped.


----------



## Majestyk

Is anyone using a vintage receiver (not too expensive/mid-range) that sounds good on high and low impedance headphones? I'm thinking my HD600's will sound sludgy on older receivers from late 60's very early 70's. They typically have a tube-like sound that I don't think will sound good with them. Maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice to find something that makes both my 120 OHM AKG's and 300 OHM HD600's sound good. Thanks.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Majestyk said:


> Is anyone using a vintage receiver (not too expensive/mid-range) that sounds good on high and low impedance headphones? I'm thinking my HD600's will sound sludgy on older receivers from late 60's very early 70's. They typically have a tube-like sound that I don't think will sound good with them. Maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice to find something that makes both my 120 OHM AKG's and 300 OHM HD600's sound good. Thanks.



HD600 sounds great on Fisher 400, Good on Pioneer SX1250, horrible on Harman Kardon 330A.  Sony MDR V6 sounds great on all.


----------



## Oregonian

Majestyk said:


> Is anyone using a vintage receiver (not too expensive/mid-range) that sounds good on high and low impedance headphones? I'm thinking my HD600's will sound sludgy on older receivers from late 60's very early 70's. They typically have a tube-like sound that I don't think will sound good with them. Maybe I'm wrong. It would be nice to find something that makes both my 120 OHM AKG's and 300 OHM HD600's sound good. Thanks.



All my vintage amps sound great through all my headphones - HE-6SE fed direct from speaker taps, Denon LA7000, Pioneer SE Master 1, etc..............no issues with muddiness or "sludgy" (good word) on any of them.


----------



## SteveA

Oregonian said:


> All my vintage amps sound great through all my headphones - HE-6SE fed direct from speaker taps, Denon LA7000, Pioneer SE Master 1, etc..............no issues with muddiness or "sludgy" (good word) on any of them.



My old Advent 300 receiver sings through my Senn HD600 as well as my Etys.


----------



## Majestyk

Something like a Fisher is way


SpeakerBox said:


> HD600 sounds great on Fisher 400, Good on Pioneer SX1250, horrible on Harman Kardon 330A.  Sony MDR V6 sounds great on all.



Well that's good to know because I was looking at the HK. Fisher 400 and Pioneer SX1250 are way out of my price league unfortunately.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Majestyk said:


> Something like a Fisher is way
> 
> 
> Well that's good to know because I was looking at the HK. Fisher 400 and Pioneer SX1250 are way out of my price league unfortunately.



Guessing the HK would be OK out of the speaker taps per @Oregonian.


----------



## Majestyk (Jan 8, 2020)

I'm a little weary of doing that. The HD600's get too loud beyond 3 on the dial. I can't imagine what the volume control would be like with speaker taps. I probably couldn't go beyond 1.5.


----------



## kid vic

Majestyk said:


> I'm a little weary of doing that. The HD600's get too loud beyond 3 on the dial. I can't imagine what the volume control would be like with speaker taps. I probably couldn't go beyond 1.5.



I personally wouldn't use Dynamics with the speaker taps just because I assume they would not handle the power peaks as well (it was explained somewhere that Planars are a resistive load which makes them more or less impervious to current swings or something like that) as Planars. 
In terms of volume, you should look for an amp with a gain switch if you are going to try using multiple headphones out of the speaker taps.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

Just got myself a Marantz Dv7600 cd player for free. apparently found out that the laser motor have an issue. is there any way i can find a donor drive? the drive is an RMC RL-S880


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> Just got myself a Marantz Dv7600 cd player for free. apparently found out that the laser motor have an issue. is there any way i can find a donor drive? the drive is an RMC RL-S880



Check eBay.  Be careful working with lasers though.  You may find another CD player for the price of the replacement laser.


----------



## Pinksoshistuff

SpeakerBox said:


> Check eBay.  Be careful working with lasers though.  You may find another CD player for the price of the replacement laser.



tried hunting ebay dint find anything


----------



## SpeakerBox

Pinksoshistuff said:


> tried hunting ebay dint find anything



If you can find a working Rotel RCD-855 CD player they are off the charts good!


----------



## Oregonian

Update on the garage gym system..............this is a Pioneer Spec 1 pre-amp feeding a SA-9500II amp - front end is an iPad 2 via a NuForce iDo DAC or the Yamaha CD player shown under it - all going into two pairs of speakers - a pair of Cerwin Vega DX-3's and a pair of JBL L100's with a Velodyne 15 sub - quite a motivating system for great workouts!  



 

 
And Hugo, my daughter's Frenchie, is a good spotter!


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice @Oregonian.  L100s - must be nice!


----------



## BobG55

Oregonian said:


> Update on the garage gym system..............this is a Pioneer Spec 1 pre-amp feeding a SA-9500II amp - front end is an iPad 2 via a NuForce iDo DAC or the Yamaha CD player shown under it - all going into two pairs of speakers - a pair of Cerwin Vega DX-3's and a pair of JBL L100's with a Velodyne 15 sub - quite a motivating system for great workouts!
> 
> And Hugo, my daughter's Frenchie, is a good spotter!



Ooooooooh ... audiophile nirvana.  Very nice Oregonian.  Love Hugo in the picture also.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Hey guys. I posted maybe more than a year ago about my Technics SA5760 and the trouble I had with an Ebay buyer who more or less destroyed the thing and tried to scam me for a refund. Luckily, Ebay settled the whole thing and refunded us both and I got the receiver back. Its condition had me very depressed and I had it out in my small living area since that time. Out of curiosity on Friday, I went and brought back the old beast and set it up on my small desk. Sure as hell, even with all the exterior physical damage, the thing still sings beautifully. I tested it with my He-500's then with the He-6 and I fell in love with the power and fullness it brought to both headphones. 

I was contemplating on simply just dumping the receiver until I tested it. My issue is that the thing is too big for my cramped college dorm space and desk. Its heft and dimensions are much too big. I've sort of decided that the HE-500 and HE-6(Maybe HE-6SE if I can sell the normal HE-6) is where I want to stop for headphones. I love their sound and I don't feel the need to try anything else. 

I'm looking for a very good receiver or amp thats not too big that I can buy and simply forget about these sort of things for the next few years. I don't mind paying up to 1k for this thing as long as it is in great condition and sounds very good and I don't have to worry about it being too heavy or being to dimensionally large. 

Additionally, I want advice on what to do with the SA5760. I really like the thing but due to my very limited living space, I can't enjoy it to the fullest since it restricts almost everything else. If Anyone lives in PA and is willing to drive to Philly to pick it up, I don't mind giving it away(I recouped all the money I spent on it already) to someone who can better take care of it and appreciate the thing.

Any would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Currently using a Sansui Model 8 60WPC SS reciever to a HFM Susvara directly into the speaker taps, sound was awesome even on radio


----------



## Sonic Defender (Jan 26, 2020)

kid vic said:


> I personally wouldn't use Dynamics with the speaker taps just because I assume they would not handle the power peaks as well (it was explained somewhere that Planars are a resistive load which makes them more or less impervious to current swings or something like that) as Planars.
> In terms of volume, you should look for an amp with a gain switch if you are going to try using multiple headphones out of the speaker taps.


I have used at least 8 different dynamic driver headphones directly from the speaker posts of my NAD M3 without an issue. Obviously the amp needs to be fundamentally sound, but the higher the resistive load is, my understanding is that the amplifier works better (in certain respects).

I'm trying to find the source that talked about this, but it was several years ago and I can't seem to find it easily. My understanding is that as the load increases, the stability of the amplifier is enhanced, but I am out of my element in terms of the physics that relate to this. I know that well designed speaker amps typically report their stability into 4ohm loads as the lower the resistance the amplifier sees the less stable it potentially becomes. I am sure there are upper limits as well. The article that I had found discussing this was focused on typical home audio amplifiers designed for regular 8ohm speakers so there are exceptions I am sure.


----------



## SpeakerBox

The HK 330 A/B/C is a fairly compact receiver and sounds great on low impedance HPs like the Sony MDR-V6.


----------



## iliketowrap19

SpeakerBox said:


> The HK 330 A/B/C is a fairly compact receiver and sounds great on low impedance HPs like the Sony MDR-V6.


What is the difference between the 3 different models?


----------



## Monsterzero

SpeakerBox said:


> The HK 330 A/B/C is a fairly compact receiver and sounds great on low impedance HPs like the Sony MDR-V6.





iliketowrap19 said:


> What is the difference between the 3 different models?



@2359glenn ,the maker of the famed and awesome Glenn OTL used to build  gear for HK. He knows which HK amps/receivers are the best to get. Maybe he can chime in here with suggestions.


----------



## SpeakerBox

iliketowrap19 said:


> What is the difference between the 3 different models?



Just different iterations of the same model.  I use the "A" as my headphone driver and the "B" sounds the same albiet with improvements in heat sinks.  Have not heard the "C" but am told it's great also.


----------



## iliketowrap19

SpeakerBox said:


> Just different iterations of the same model.  I use the "A" as my headphone driver and the "B" sounds the same albiet with improvements in heat sinks.  Have not heard the "C" but am told it's great also.


Currently looking on ebay for one that has been serviced. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## SpeakerBox

iliketowrap19 said:


> Currently looking on ebay for one that has been serviced. Thanks for the suggestion.



Probably posted this before - but here is my 330A:


----------



## kid vic

Sonic Defender said:


> I have used at least 8 different dynamic driver headphones directly from the speaker posts of my NAD M3 without an issue. Obviously the amp needs to be fundamentally sound, but the higher the resistive load is, my understanding is that the amplifier works better (in certain respects).
> 
> I'm trying to find the source that talked about this, but it was several years ago and I can't seem to find it easily. My understanding is that as the load increases, the stability of the amplifier is enhanced, but I am out of my element in terms of the physics that relate to this. I know that well designed speaker amps typically report their stability into 4ohm loads as the lower the resistance the amplifier sees the less stable it potentially becomes. I am sure there are upper limits as well. The article that I had found discussing this was focused on typical home audio amplifiers designed for regular 8ohm speakers so there are exceptions I am sure.



I assume the dynamics you used were all run as true balanced headphones? Interesting, I know there is a thread where people talked about running various headphones through a resistor box, but again I have not yet personally tried it (though I was immensely curious when I still had a set of AKG K340s).


----------



## Sonic Defender

kid vic said:


> I assume the dynamics you used were all run as true balanced headphones? Interesting, I know there is a thread where people talked about running various headphones through a resistor box, but again I have not yet personally tried it (though I was immensely curious when I still had a set of AKG K340s).


Nope, my amp has a dual mono design, but it uses a common ground so no balanced. I also never needed a resistor box, I believe those are only needed with OTL amps, but it has been a while since I researched the subject, but absolutely there is no need for a resistor box with a solid state amp. I have used planar headphones as well as dynamics and regardless of the headphone, the results have been fantastic. It all started when I had the original HE560 with SMC connectors. I kept spending money on headamps but always looking at my lovely and powerful NAD M3 wishing it had input for a headphone, but it did not. So I started researching and eventually had Trevor at Norne Audio make me a wonderful speaker tap cable. 

I have never looked back. I have a very well designed integrated amp with a well respected topology, two beefy power supplies and more power than I will ever need. As long as you are careful to always know where you left the volume you will be fine without a resistor box. My research seemed to suggest that stacking a bunch of resistors between the amp and headphone may result in dynamics being restrained so I wanted to avoid that possibility.


----------



## kid vic

Sonic Defender said:


> Nope, my amp has a dual mono design, but it uses a common ground so no balanced. I also never needed a resistor box, I believe those are only needed with OTL amps, but it has been a while since I researched the subject, but absolutely there is no need for a resistor box with a solid state amp. I have used planar headphones as well as dynamics and regardless of the headphone, the results have been fantastic. It all started when I had the original HE560 with SMC connectors. I kept spending money on headamps but always looking at my lovely and powerful NAD M3 wishing it had input for a headphone, but it did not. So I started researching and eventually had Trevor at Norne Audio make me a wonderful speaker tap cable.
> 
> I have never looked back. I have a very well designed integrated amp with a well respected topology, two beefy power supplies and more power than I will ever need. As long as you are careful to always know where you left the volume you will be fine without a resistor box. My research seemed to suggest that stacking a bunch of resistors between the amp and headphone may result in dynamics being restrained so I wanted to avoid that possibility.


 
Your story is similar to mine save for the massive difference in wattage and willingness to us dynamics. Dual mono with shared ground is something of an oxymoron though.


----------



## Sonic Defender

kid vic said:


> Your story is similar to mine save for the massive difference in wattage and willingness to us dynamics. Dual mono with shared ground is something of an oxymoron though.


Apparently the particular architecture of the M3 made the choice of common ground the best fit for the design parameters. The M3 is considered to be a pretty well engineered amp so I have confidence that the use of common ground was thoughtout.


----------



## Sonic Defender

kid vic said:


> Your story is similar to mine save for the massive difference in wattage and willingness to us dynamics. Dual mono with shared ground is something of an oxymoron though.


Why wouldn't you want to use dynamics with a speaker tap, or is it just that you don't like dynamics period? I have used the following dynamics (and likely a few others) with this setup: HD600/650/700/800S, MDR-Z1R, MDR-Z7, A800, TH900, TH600, X2, K701, K812, PS20003, GS3000e, GH4, SE Monitor 5, HP-3 and I am sure I am forgetting at least three others. My point is that absolutely none of these headphones performed other than perfectly directly from the speaker taps.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sonic Defender said:


> I have never looked back. I have a very well designed integrated amp with a well respected topology, two beefy power supplies and more power than I will ever need. As long as you are careful to always know where you left the volume you will be fine without a resistor box. My research seemed to suggest that stacking a bunch of resistors between the amp and headphone may result in dynamics being restrained so I wanted to avoid that possibility.



I wonder if adding resistors to the taps is any worse than just listening via the dropping resistor in the HP jack?  That said I am thinking that some serial/parallel combination would yield a lower output resistance which may be better for dynamics.


----------



## Sonic Defender

SpeakerBox said:


> I wonder if adding resistors to the taps is any worse than just listening via the dropping resistor in the HP jack?  That said I am thinking that some serial/parallel combination would yield a lower output resistance which may be better for dynamics.


Some better amps actually have a separate headphone section as opposed to just stacking resistors, but that is rare. In any case, as the only thing I need to do is simply be careful with the volume control I am fine without anything beyond the speaker tap cable connection. Perhaps in some situations you could possibly gain improvements as you noted. Cheers.


----------



## kid vic

Sonic Defender said:


> Why wouldn't you want to use dynamics with a speaker tap, or is it just that you don't like dynamics period? I have used the following dynamics (and likely a few others) with this setup: HD600/650/700/800S, MDR-Z1R, MDR-Z7, A800, TH900, TH600, X2, K701, K812, PS20003, GS3000e, GH4, SE Monitor 5, HP-3 and I am sure I am forgetting at least three others. My point is that absolutely none of these headphones performed other than perfectly directly from the speaker taps.



Two reasons: 1) I've never owned a dynamic headphone with an proper fully balanced XLR plug and my amp requires it and, 2) I always get minor hum from my amps into my planars. Not sure if its a noisy grid or overly sensitive headphones but I always assumed it would be worse with dynamics. 

We're both in Canada, if you ever want to send a set of dynamics with a 4 pin XLR cable my way I'll certainly give them a shot


----------



## Sonic Defender

kid vic said:


> Two reasons: 1) I've never owned a dynamic headphone with an proper fully balanced XLR plug and my amp requires it and, 2) I always get minor hum from my amps into my planars. Not sure if its a noisy grid or overly sensitive headphones but I always assumed it would be worse with dynamics.
> 
> We're both in Canada, if you ever want to send a set of dynamics with a 4 pin XLR cable my way I'll certainly give them a shot


Gotcha. If I had a headphone terminated like that I would happily loan it out, but no such luck. I have only used balanced for extra power and with my NAD having plenty of juice that isn't an issue.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sonic Defender said:


> Gotcha. If I had a headphone terminated like that I would happily loan it out, but no such luck. I have only used balanced for extra power and with my NAD having plenty of juice that isn't an issue.



Sounds like you are happy with your NAD.  Had an M15 and M55 for awhile and was not crazy about them.  Short on detail.


----------



## Sonic Defender

SpeakerBox said:


> Sounds like you are happy with your NAD.  Had an M15 and M55 for awhile and was not crazy about them.  Short on detail.


I do very much like it. It does have a slight reticence in the finest detail, but it has many very positive attributes that for me compensate nicely. It is towards the warmer side, but not fully warm. Ideally it would be combined with brighter speakers. I am also not really a detail head in the sense that I need the very most granular detail revealed all of the time. Each to their own as they say.


----------



## Oregonian

Updated the garage gym system......................found this Spec 4 amp for a good price (recapped, etc).  Another update inbound in the form of a Pioneer P-D70 CD player that I've coveted for a while.................


----------



## SpeakerBox

Now that's a garage system^^^^^!


----------



## Sonic Defender

Oregonian said:


> Updated the garage gym system......................found this Spec 4 amp for a good price (recapped, etc).  Another update inbound in the form of a Pioneer P-D70 CD player that I've coveted for a while.................


Damn that be sweet.


----------



## BobG55 (Feb 11, 2020)

Very nice Oregonian.


----------



## Sonic Defender

BobG55 said:


> <iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/hqygcjKUt5hQ2CqK0F" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen>
> via GIPHY


Your link doesn't work mate.


----------



## hemipowered007

Posted this pic in another thread, but thought id share here as well. As luck would have it, just the evening before i took this picture, i was micro adjusting the "tone on/off" switch, and it broke...so now fleabay has one and ill have to take my baby apart and swap it. Cant have her looking bad after all. I dont get alot of time with the sx1010 or my he4 anymore but when i do its like the first time all over again. The audio gd r2r11 pairs really well with it, cant wait to throw my speakers on it again soon.


----------



## hemipowered007

Oregonian said:


> Updated the garage gym system......................found this Spec 4 amp for a good price (recapped, etc).  Another update inbound in the form of a Pioneer P-D70 CD player that I've coveted for a while.................



Damn! I need spec gear in my life, i swear someday ill get a full spec rack


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Sharing here, newly acquired rare late 60's recapped Sansui AU777 25 wpc, wonderful tube sounding solid state amp.


----------



## Sonic Defender

Damn this is some lovely gear, absolutely love the restored vintage gear. So very tasty.


----------



## kid vic

Oregonian said:


> Updated the garage gym system......................found this Spec 4 amp for a good price (recapped, etc).  Another update inbound in the form of a Pioneer P-D70 CD player that I've coveted for a while.................




I swear every couple of months you pick up a "a new spec piece for a good price". I need your fairy godmother.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Picked up a g4500. Much less bass than the Technics Sa5760 but it has a very clean sound. And since it doesn't weigh so much, I can take it with me when I graduate in a few months.


----------



## 3ggerhappy

Old acquisition painted and recapped.


----------



## Sonic Defender

3ggerhappy said:


> Old acquisition painted and recapped.


Looks amazing!


----------



## Majestyk

Has anyone tried the Sennheiser HD660S headphones on their vintage gear? Just curious if they're a good match.


----------



## Majestyk (Feb 25, 2020)

Majestyk said:


> Has anyone tried the Sennheiser HD660S headphones on their vintage gear? Just curious if they're a good match.



I just bought a pair of these, so I can answer my own question. I thought they would be more detailed but on my Yamaha 'Natural Sound' receiver with 220ohm jack they are actually smoother than the 600's.  My Hifiman HE-500 had this same sonic character (smooth), but I've had plenty of headphones that are very detailed on my Yamaha like Sony's and AKG's. Actually, if my 600's had any more detail it would be too much.

Anyway, the 660's sound like a cross between the 600's and 650's. They have more bass than the 600's but not as much as the 650's. I do prefer the bass control at -1 and on darker recordings, -2. I listen to mostly vinyl rips and vinyl does have more bass...depending on the system of course. With CD's the tone controls can stay flat, with the occasional -1 bass setting. (Tone controls definitely come in handy!!). Also, the soundstage is noticeably wider, which is nice.

I don't think these cans would sound good on bass heavy receivers like the early Sansui's. In fact, I don't like the sound of my 600's on my Sansui 800.


----------



## Silent One

Oregonian said:


> Updated the garage gym system......................found this Spec 4 amp for a good price (recapped, etc).  Another update inbound in the form of a Pioneer P-D70 CD player that I've coveted for a while.................
> 
> 
> If I were your postal carrier I’d definitely pad 30 min onto the route..._daily_.


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Oregonian

SilentOne - I never get tired of seeing that holy grail of Sansuiness...................


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## Silent One (Mar 12, 2020)

Just got back from Shelly’s Stereo (Woodland Hills) with Magnepan LRS’s for my Sansui...”Baby Sinister, meet your new playmate Baby Maggie.”


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## Oregonian

Here's the update for the garage gym system with the vintage Pioneer P-D70 CD player added to the Spec stack...............


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## KG Jag

Powerful (and excellent) look!


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## kid vic

My Kenwood KA-9100 amp. Nice mix of old school and new tech i think.


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## Oregonian

kid vic said:


> My Kenwood KA-9100 amp. Nice mix of old school and new tech i think.



Gorgeous...............Kenwood was my first vintage.  Mine is the KA-5700 which I still use to this day as my home office computer system base.


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## red71rum

Here is one of my vintage receivers, my Sansui G9000 -


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## KG Jag

Excellent--that the big and slightly older brother of the G-7500 I bought (and still use) as a closeout in-store demo.


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## red71rum

KG Jag said:


> Excellent--that the big and slightly older brother of the G-7500 I bought (and still use) as a closeout in-store demo.


Yes, it Is close to the 7500, I also have a nice Sansui TT if we are allowed to post pics of that here? This G9000 has a nice smooth sound, I hardly push it, the VU meters barely move because I don’t want to go deaf Did you get yours in the late 70s?


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## KG Jag

No--the G-7500 was in production from 1980-1982.  I got mine in about 1982 or 1983.  I think the the 85 watts/channel G-7000 (and G-8000) was in the same line as the G-9000.

Even with the 90 watts/channel G-7500, you really have to crank the volume up to get the 2 power VU meters to jump more than just a bit.


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## red71rum (Apr 3, 2020)

KG Jag said:


> No--the G-7500 was in production from 1980-1982.  I got mine in about 1982 or 1983.  I think the the 85 watts/channel G-7000 (and G-8000) was in the same line as the G-9000.
> 
> Even with the 90 watts/channel G-7500, you really have to crank the volume up to get the 2 power VU meters to jump more than just a bit.


You are correct, I should have double checked my dates... In 82 I was playing my Colecovision with the Atari 2600 adapter, at that time I listened to my parents Onkyo Tx2500 mkII. 90 watts per channel is more than enough. I have a much smaller Technics SA 400 and that is only 45 watts, but more than enough power with efficient speakers(have it connected to Sonus Faber Chameleon Ts.).


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## KG Jag

Your parents Onkyo was also a very good receiver, but I think it was more like 40 (RMS) watts/channel.  See:

https://classicreceivers.com/category/receivers/onkyo/tx-2500

Your Technics had almost the same power rating--45 watts/channel.  See:

https://classicreceivers.com/category/receivers/technics/sa-400

You can check the photos in the links and see if you have cited the correct model numbers.


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## Monsterzero

I have the Onkyo TX-6500 Mk ll. its rated at 100wpc. I have it driving a pair of Rectilinear Highboys in my den. It was a clear,detailed sound. Nowhere near as warm as my Sansui receivers.

I just bought a new(for me) vintage receiver yesterday. Ive been lusting after this receiver for several years,and now I finally have one.

Pics will be posted when it arrives next wednesday.


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## KG Jag (Apr 3, 2020)

Any hints on the incoming?

Are your Sansui(s) in the G series?  Earlier than the G?


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## red71rum

Monsterzero said:


> I have the Onkyo TX-6500 Mk ll. its rated at 100wpc. I have it driving a pair of Rectilinear Highboys in my den. It was a clear,detailed sound. Nowhere near as warm as my Sansui receivers.
> 
> I just bought a new(for me) vintage receiver yesterday. Ive been lusting after this receiver for several years,and now I finally have one.
> 
> Pics will be posted when it arrives next wednesday.


Nice.



KG Jag said:


> Your parents Onkyo was also a very good receiver, but I think it was more like 40 (RMS) watts/channel.  See:
> 
> https://classicreceivers.com/category/receivers/onkyo/tx-2500
> 
> ...


I actually did not mentions the rating of my parents receiver, although I recently cleaned it and it is still going.  I have been to the classic receivers many times, cool site. I got the Technics in perfect shape for only $10.


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## hemipowered007

Can we add what our favorite speaker pairings have been if they are vintage as well? I would personally be interested in seeing that here as well,  but, thats just me.


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## KG Jag (Apr 4, 2020)

I still have and use a pair of Advent /1 speakers.  I got them at or about the same time I bought my Sansui G-7500.  For several decades I paired them together in my home office system.  A few years ago I had them refoamed and had work done on their crossovers.  They are now paired (along with a pair of modern KEF Q-300's) with my Yamaha R-1000 receiver.  My favorite vintage speakers of those I heard over the years are the Advent line and the AR line.  When I was in college in the early 70's, my buddy's AR2-AX where my favorites.

All that said, I generally prefer modern speakers pushed and fed by my vintage gear.  In addition to my KEF's, I am favorably impressed with the Monitor Audio and Wharfedale speakers perform with vintage receivers.  You have to be careful with pairings, as a number of vintage receivers (e.g. Sony and Sansui) only play well with 8 Ohm speakers.  Others like Yamaha are OK with 4 or 6 Ohm speakers, but only if that is the only speaker pair they are driving.

Modern speakers I have used are usually happy with amps that deliver at least 20 to 60 watts per channel.  That was quite a lot of power relative to what most late 60's and early 70's receivers delivered.  My 1971 Pioneer SX-990 put out 28 watts per channel.  In that era, the most powerful receiver any of my friends had was a Lafayette that pushed out about 70 watts per channel.  He paired it with the AR 2-AX's.  No one else have more than 40 watts per channel.


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## Monsterzero (Apr 4, 2020)

KG Jag said:


> Any hints on the incoming?
> 
> Are your Sansui(s) in the G series?  Earlier than the G?


Both of my Sansuis are on the shelf. My local tech had a 6-8 week wait,and then,well,all hell broke loose in the world,so they will remain on the shelf until this damn virus rids itself.
I have an 881,which is utterly fantastic sounding,but as I said,needs a trip to the tech. I also have a 5000a,which is soooo warm,like way,way warmer than my Glenn OTL. Crazy bass,but not a good match for my gear.

Hint? Hmmmm...well its made in America,and cost near $2K back in 1978....Im sure yall can figure it out.  Im so stoked!


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## KG Jag (Apr 4, 2020)

Sounds like a car to me.  There's only one receiver I know of that meets that description (made in the USA or otherwise)--the McIntosh 4100.  Until you dropped it from 3K to 2K, I was stumped.

I hear you about your problems with your local tech still having your gear.  I picked up 2 Nak 3 head cassette decks that I had repaired up in Austin just hours before Austin shut down all "non-esential" businesses.


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## Monsterzero

KG Jag said:


> There's only one receiver I know of that meets that description (made in the USA or otherwise)--the McIntosh 4100.


As I said,yall can probably figure it out. 
Ive been wanting a MAC 4100 forever. Cant wait until wednesday.


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## red71rum

Here is my Sony STR V6, with a special appearance by the Teac 3340s. The Sony is a really nice receiver, 115wpc. Sony's fly under the radar, there is no Marantz tax if you find one online. I also like the green lights and the FM tuner is great.


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## Monsterzero

red71rum said:


> Here is my Sony STR V6, with a special appearance by the Teac 3340s. The Sony is a really nice receiver, 115wpc. Sony's fly under the radar, there is no Marantz tax if you find one online. I also like the green lights and the FM tuner is great.


Wow thats a pretty cool and unique looking receiver. I have read that those old Sonys sound good. Is it more detailed sounding ala Pioneer vs. warm Marantz/Sansui?


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## kid vic

red71rum said:


> Here is my Sony STR V6, with a special appearance by the Teac 3340s. The Sony is a really nice receiver, 115wpc. Sony's fly under the radar, there is no Marantz tax if you find one online. I also like the green lights and the FM tuner is great.


Beautiful picture, I've always been a bit of a Sony fan boy


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## KG Jag (Apr 4, 2020)

I have a fully refurbished V-7 that I got for a very good price from a quality vintage stereo sales and service shop in north Austin a couple years ago.  They apparently were having trouble moving it.  Like the V-6 (which I think has the same exterior dimensions), it is too big and/or heavy to fit into standard audio racks.  That is a downside of the power war monster receivers from the mid-70's through the early 80's.


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## red71rum

Monsterzero said:


> Wow thats a pretty cool and unique looking receiver. I have read that those old Sonys sound good. Is it more detailed sounding ala Pioneer vs. warm Marantz/Sansui?



It is hard to say, I would say that it has a warm sound but also detailed. I really like the look of it, it was owned by a couple that got divorced after 50 of marriage years. 



KG Jag said:


> I have a fully refurbished V-7 that I got for a very good price from a quality vintage stereo sales and service shop in north Austin a couple years ago.  They apparently were having trouble moving it.  Like the V-6 (which I think has the same exterior dimensions), it is too big and/or heavy to fit into standard audio racks.  That is a downside of the power war monster receivers from the mid-70's through the early 80's.



I have my receivers like this and the Sansui in a larger open rack setup, which allows for these monsters to breath, and I have nothing stacked on them. i have not seen a V7 for sale in my area for some time, although someone is trying to sell a V6 for too much right now in the Nashville area.


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## Monsterzero

Oh my! A re-release of the JBL L100 speaker! Not cheap,but cheaper than buying on eBay! anyone here willing to take the plunge?

https://upscaleaudio.com/products/j...uY29tIiwgImtsX2NvbXBhbnlfaWQiOiAiTVNIQUVHIn0=


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## KG Jag

At $2,000 per speaker, I understand that to be the full retail (MAP) price.


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## Type26

Marantz 2230. I have restored over two dozen receivers, and the 2230 is probably my favorite.


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## Oregonian

Monsterzero said:


> Oh my! A re-release of the JBL L100 speaker! Not cheap,but cheaper than buying on eBay! anyone here willing to take the plunge?
> 
> https://upscaleaudio.com/products/jbl-l100-classic-loudspeaker-each?_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJkamFzaWF3d3NAZ21haWwuY29tIiwgImtsX2NvbXBhbnlfaWQiOiAiTVNIQUVHIn0=



Dang that's a lot of $....................I have the L100 from the early days.   Love the sound - they are the second set of speakers in my garage gym system and handle all the Spec 4 amp can throw at them!


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## KG Jag

I have read from more than one source that the new version is only slightly more expensive than the original when 1970 $'s are adjusted to todays $'s (or to when they first became available).


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## Monsterzero

So my McIntosh 4100 arrived two days ago. Externally it looks like it just came off of the assembly line yesterday. Unfortunately the internals were damaged in transit,so its on its way back to the seller who agreed to pay for the return shipping. He is going to repair the damage and attempt to send it back once its complete.

Ive waited 35 years for one. I guess another week or two wont kill me,but....Grrrrrrrr!


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## KG Jag

Frustrating...to say the least.  Proper packing and a minimum of care by the shipper + luck all seem to be required to receive an undamaged vintage unit.  Vintage TT's are even more dependent on this.


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## red71rum (Apr 14, 2020)

Here is my old Sony STR 6055. I think this is an underrated receiver, sounds great to my ears. I need to find the wood enclosure. 40 wpc, nice tuner, came out in 1971, the same year I was born: ) -

Sony STR 6055 specs


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## KG Jag

Those Sonys are sweet.  I have a bit later STR-7055, which as a very similar look and has (from what I recall from the 70's and have read since) a very similar sound signature.


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## Oregonian

That is a beautiful Sony.....................there is a guy on Audiokarma that makes wood cases for vintage equipment - goes by the name of sawdust - unfortunately I saw recently that he was not doing it right now due to some health issues (not COVID related) but if he gets back to making them they are outstanding.  Got one from him for my Pioneer SA-8800 amp and it is sweet.


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## red71rum

Oregonian said:


> That is a beautiful Sony.....................there is a guy on Audiokarma that makes wood cases for vintage equipment - goes by the name of sawdust - unfortunately I saw recently that he was not doing it right now due to some health issues (not COVID related) but if he gets back to making them they are outstanding.  Got one from him for my Pioneer SA-8800 amp and it is sweet.



That would be cool, I have seen some originals on Ebay also, but they are few and far between. I wish I were good at woodworking, just an IT guy though: ) Also, my wife does not share my affinity for music or my older audio equipment, let alone my home theater setup, which means I have to get something like that on the down low.


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## DeadMoonKing

That amp is gorgeous Red71rum! 
I recently got a SX-1280 and think it looks pretty nifty, but I really love the styling of those old Sonys! 
(Still wanna sneak in Marantz at some point too...)


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## KG Jag

My STR-7055 has its original wood case.  Like most 1970's receiver who had them, it looks great.  Would love to get a quality OEM for my late 70's vintage Marantz.


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## red71rum

DeadMoonKing said:


> That amp is gorgeous Red71rum!
> I recently got a SX-1280 and think it looks pretty nifty, but I really love the styling of those old Sonys!
> (Still wanna sneak in Marantz at some point too...)


Thanks, I like the Pioneer look also. I was looking at an SX1010 I believe in my area, but did not get it. The SX1280 is a great receiver. I never follow through on Marantz because of the inherent Marantz tax I always see... I always liked the Marantz model 18 or the 2385 always looked cool to me. 




KG Jag said:


> My STR-7055 has its original wood case.  Like most 1970's receiver who had them, it looks great.  Would love to get a quality OEM for my late 70's vintage Marantz.



The 7055 is a great receiver. I got the 6055 for $60 and it came with the original Harman Kardon HK40 speakers.


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## Majestyk (May 22, 2020)

Majestyk said:


> I just bought a pair of these, so I can answer my own question. I thought they would be more detailed but on my Yamaha 'Natural Sound' receiver with 220ohm jack they are actually smoother than the 600's.  My Hifiman HE-500 had this same sonic character (smooth), but I've had plenty of headphones that are very detailed on my Yamaha like Sony's and AKG's. Actually, if my 600's had any more detail it would be too much.
> 
> Anyway, the 660's sound like a cross between the 600's and 650's. They have more bass than the 600's but not as much as the 650's. I do prefer the bass control at -1 and on darker recordings, -2. I listen to mostly vinyl rips and vinyl does have more bass...depending on the system of course. With CD's the tone controls can stay flat, with the occasional -1 bass setting. (Tone controls definitely come in handy!!). Also, the soundstage is noticeably wider, which is nice.
> 
> I don't think these cans would sound good on bass heavy receivers like the early Sansui's. In fact, I don't like the sound of my 600's on my Sansui 800.



EDIT... Never mind. my above statement stands.


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## 3ggerhappy

Completed my vintage Mission Cyrus 2 Setup with the arrival of the PSX power supply. 70 WPC high current amp(60A peak to peak). Its on different color though amp is black psx is gray. I'll be wrapping the cases with automotive grade carbon fibre vinyl.


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## Majestyk

Has anyone come across good sounding receivers from the 70's/80's that sound good with lower impedance headphones?


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## Oregonian

Majestyk said:


> Has anyone come across good sounding receivers from the 70's/80's that sound good with lower impedance headphones?



I regularly listen to my Denon MD2000 and LA7000 out of my vintage amps - of which I have 8 working systems in use and they sound great.  Not sure on the impedance of the Denon's but pretty sure they meet your question.


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## BobG55

Thought I’d share this restoration YouTube video about the iconic Pioneer SX1980 vintage receiver.
Since I’m not tech savvy/ handyman, I’m not sure how good/ interesting this video is for members who are.


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## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> So my McIntosh 4100 arrived two days ago. Externally it looks like it just came off of the assembly line yesterday. Unfortunately the internals were damaged in transit,so its on its way back to the seller who agreed to pay for the return shipping. He is going to repair the damage and attempt to send it back once its complete.
> 
> Ive waited 35 years for one. I guess another week or two wont kill me,but....Grrrrrrrr!



Do show when you get it back.


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## UntilThen

red71rum said:


> Here is my old Sony STR 6055. I think this is an underrated receiver, sounds great to my ears. I need to find the wood enclosure. 40 wpc, nice tuner, came out in 1971, the same year I was born: ) -
> 
> Sony STR 6055 specs



Very nice. My Sony str-7035 is somewhere around the house. Have to dig it up for a listen again.


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## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Do show when you get it back.


This has been a nightmare. UPS lost it on its way back to me. Then they said they found it Illinois,but it was being held indefinitely cuz of virus. they then returned it to seller.  

Its now on its way back to me again. Due wednesday,but not holding my breath.


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## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> This has been a nightmare. UPS lost it on its way back to me. Then they said they found it Illinois,but it was being held indefinitely cuz of virus. they then returned it to seller.
> 
> Its now on its way back to me again. Due wednesday,but not holding my breath.



Hahaha I feel the pain. My tubes to India hasn't arrived after 2 months.


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## KG Jag

^^ Yikes!  I sure hope things turn out well after the completion of the "scenic tour".


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## UntilThen

Sansui isolation chilling.


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## SpeakerBox (Apr 29, 2020)

Just replaced all the very old 12AX7 tubes in my Fisher 400 with Sovtek 12AX7LPS versions and got a huge boost in SQ!


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## SpeakerBox

Not exactly real vintage - but is a Nelson Pass design from 10 or so years ago.  Just got the DIY F6 up and running!  Bias set to 500mv per spec.


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## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Do show when you get it back.





KG Jag said:


> ^^ Yikes!  I sure hope things turn out well after the completion of the "scenic tour".


Finally arrived,and in one beautiful sounding and looking piece. Glorious bass,and not as warm as a Sansui. Couldnt be happier!  Oh,and it has an adjustable loudness function. Ive never seen that on any other receiver.


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## KG Jag

Looks great, no doubt it sounds even better.

Yamaha receivers in the 70's and 80's also had the adjustable loudness feature.


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## BobG55

KG Jag said:


> Looks great, no doubt it sounds even better.
> 
> Yamaha receivers in the 70's and 80's also had the adjustable loudness feature.



As does my Kenwood KA-8006 [1974] :


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## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


> Finally arrived,and in one beautiful sounding and looking piece. Glorious bass,and not as warm as a Sansui. Couldnt be happier!



Beautiful. It's a collectible.


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## PhoenixG

Hi guys, it's been quite a while since I last posted, but I have some new acquisitions that I'm pretty happy about!
I put the minimum bid on a sony str-6200f that looked nice in the wood case and original box and ended up getting it. Oops haha. The wife was fairly understanding all things considered. I made the necessary changes to allow it to run on 220V without smoking itself (jumper movement and choke replacement). The only problem is that I now have five of these units (6120 / 6200), so if anyone wants one send me a message hahahahah. 4 of them are located in Italy with me, the last one is in storage in Florida. Conditions range from parts only to fully restored.
Also, I got a mcintosh SCR-7 remote control unit. It's a vintage high-quality bolt-on style remote control. This allows me to control the volume (and, I think, inputs!!! AHHHHHH!!!!) of any stereo that has separate amp and preamp sections, or any stereo with a tape loop. It should arrive Monday and I'm really excited to install it on the Big-G.
Anyways, here's a photo of my cat not respecting social distancing with my turntable.


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## PhoenixG

PhoenixG said:


> Hi guys, it's been quite a while since I last posted, but I have some new acquisitions that I'm pretty happy about!
> I put the minimum bid on a sony str-6200f that looked nice in the wood case and original box and ended up getting it. Oops haha. The wife was fairly understanding all things considered. I made the necessary changes to allow it to run on 220V without smoking itself (jumper movement and choke replacement). The only problem is that I now have five of these units (6120 / 6200), so if anyone wants one send me a message hahahahah. 4 of them are located in Italy with me, the last one is in storage in Florida. Conditions range from parts only to fully restored.
> Also, I got a mcintosh SCR-7 remote control unit. It's a vintage high-quality bolt-on style remote control. This allows me to control the volume (and, I think, inputs!!! AHHHHHH!!!!) of any stereo that has separate amp and preamp sections, or any stereo with a tape loop. It should arrive Monday and I'm really excited to install it on the Big-G.
> Anyways, here's a photo of my cat not respecting social distancing with my turntable.


The remote came in today and I'm really happy! I've set it to control the TV audio volume and CD player audio volume, as well as the power for the receiver and all auxiliaries. My favorite part is that the meters still dance, no matter the input. Overall I'm very happy with the purchase. I think it was made in the late 80's. Great amount of weight, and it works with prettymuch any receiver.


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## SpeakerBox

Very nice @PhoenixG !


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## SpeakerBox

SpeakerBox said:


> Not exactly real vintage - but is a Nelson Pass design from 10 or so years ago.  Just got the DIY F6 up and running!  Bias set to 500mv per spec.



Almost finished:


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## ScareDe2 (Jun 2, 2020)

The Sony STR 1011 that I have acquired serviced from ebay for less than $200 is sounding resolving, smooth and drives effortlessly my sennheiser HD250 linear 1. I do a side comparison with my Schiit Lyr 2 with Lisst tubes and the Sony receiver sounds better. But to be fair, adjusted to inflation the unit costs over $1k. It was build at a time when the japaneses were leading the market during the golden age of audio. It's quality inside. So if you find these vintage units in good working order, I can't but only recommend you grab one.

And with 285 W of power you can bet it will drive a pair of speakers. The Yamaha's horizontal NS10 have great synergy with this receiver.

https://www.americanradiohistory.co...ive-HiFI-Stereo/90s/Stereo-Directory-1994.pdf


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## Silent One

Jus hangin’ out with The Big ‘G’ & HE-6. How y’all been?


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## SpeakerBox

Very nice gear @Silent One !  Good to hear from you again.  My big Pioneer is up in the rotation today driving my KEF Q10s.  Never stop loving this gear!


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## Silent One

SpeakerBox said:


> Very nice gear @Silent One !  Good to hear from you again.  My big Pioneer is up in the rotation today driving my KEF Q10s.  Never stop loving this gear!
> 
> Good to see you thriving. And you’ve got gear to love!


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## FusionManic

Stevebol said:


> I like the older receivers. I have a Pioneer SX-750 and just got a Kenwood 5400. Pioneers are very clean sounding. The Kenwood is darker and some say not unlike an old Marantz


. 

Quite a coincidence, I happen to have a Pioneer SX-650 and a Kenwood KR-6600, both restored. I agree 100% that 50 series Pioneers sound clean and clear, some would even go as far as calling it a "West Coast" sound. I wouldn't describe the Kenwoods as "dark" however, but warm instead. They are smooth sounding yet detailed, and they got swing to spare although this varies across models. I chose the KR-6600 because its output impedance suited my headphones, and I acquired the Pioneer SX-650 because it is a heck of a handsome looking mid-range "silverface" and a good example of refined industrial design of the mid-to-late 70's. 

Despite the mean-looking heat-dissipating "louvers" on its sides (they are fake, it's just decorative) the Kenwood looks plain... until you turn it on and its window lights up. Dimmed-blue dial (very similar to Marantz blue, not bright blue like the older Pioneers), the bright red light at the tip of the tuning needle that makes it look like an inverted torch of sorts, combine that with the amber VU-meters and you get a display unlike any other I've seen. And to top it off it uses common, easy-to-find bulbs. It is rated at 56wpc but I suspect it puts out more than that considering its rather bulky size and hefty weight. And its sound when connected to large speakers, you can sense ample power reserve.      



> I never heard a modern receiver I liked but never really did a side by side comparison with the older 70's models. Old receivers are great. The one's that get top dollar, outside of the Marantz's are the one's with lots of watts. 30-50 watts by 1970's standards is quite loud. That's what makes the lesser-powered older receivers such a great buy.



Until the 80's the FTC mandated that power rating was continuous output from 20Hz to 20KHz, now they only ask peak power output at 1KHz. That's a meaningless figure that allows ridiculous claims of huge power from receivers weighting about 10 lbs or even less, yet push 100wpc. I take that with a truckload of salt, if the old regulations still applied that amp may have been rated 8wpc.


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## SpeakerBox

FusionManic said:


> Quite a coincidence, I happen to have a Pioneer SX-650 and a Kenwood KR-6600, both restored. I agree 100% that 50 series Pioneers sound clean and clear, some would even go as far as calling it a "West Coast" sound.



That sound is what attracted me to the 1250.  Very clean.


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## FusionManic

SpeakerBox said:


> That sound is what attracted me to the 1250.  Very clean.


Indeed it is, with the iconic 1250 you get clean and LOUD without a hint of a clip. One of the best designed receiver of the 70's inside out, imho


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## kid vic

So I just picked up a gorgeous HH Scott 299D (pics to follow) and I was loving it with my LCD3 all night long. Earlier today I saw a post elsewhere stating that running vintage tube amps without a load is generally a bad idea; last night I was running it with the speaker selector switched to "off" and a headphone plugged in at all times, but I still have to wonder whether or not I need some sort of a load attached to the speaker taps?
I assume from all of the people who used to use Leben integrateds as headphone amps that this shouldn't be a problem but I figured I'd double check.

Also, I will be trying to run my Lounge Audio Copla step-up transformer into both my Scott 299D and my Kenwood KA-9100 via an RCA splitter (maybe the Schiit SYS); anyone think this is a bad idea? If so, why? I emailed Lounge Audio and they said that it may require me cranking the volume but should otherwise work.


----------



## UntilThen

kid vic said:


> So I just picked up a gorgeous HH Scott 299D (pics to follow) and I was loving it with my LCD3 all night long.



LCD-3f with a vintage amp is delicious. Some spare gear while working from home. Burson Conductor V2+ as DAC into Sony STR-7035.


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## kid vic

UntilThen said:


> LCD-3f with a vintage amp is delicious. Some spare gear while working from home. Burson Conductor V2+ as DAC into Sony STR-7035.


Yeah, it has already been incredible with my vintage kenwood.


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## kid vic (Oct 17, 2020)

So, I've been thinking of tube rolling the Scott but I don't know where to start. It uses these tubes:


(4) 12AX7
(2) 6U8 or 7199 (Split-load phase inverter)
(4) 7591
(1) 5AR4

I won't be rolling the 7591's as those are near impossible to find and I probably won't be rolling the 5A34 right away; basically this leaves the 12AX7's and the 6U8's for rolling.
Which group should I start with? Also, the 12AX7's are divided into two groups (labeled V102, V2, V101, V1, in that order), any idea what they each are for?


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## SpeakerBox (Oct 17, 2020)

I use Electro Harmonix in my Fisher 400 for 7591 output tubes.  Sounds quite good but the pins are larger than the old standby versions - so they tend to expand the sockets so that you can't go back.  I do like the sound though.  12AX7 are the Sovtek 12AX7LPS.  Sound excellent also.


----------



## Greendriver

I have a choice of Pioneer SX838 or Marantz 1070 for headphone listening. Anyone have any experience of these?


----------



## Monsterzero (Oct 25, 2020)

Greendriver said:


> I have a choice of Pioneer SX838 or Marantz 1070 for headphone listening. Anyone have any experience of these?


I have heard neither. That being said, receivers back in the day had a house sound. Marantz was known for being the warmest of the Big 3, while Pioneer has known as being the brightest and most detailed of the Big 3. Big 3 being Marantz, Pioneer and Sansui. 
There were deviations existing from model to model though. My Sansui 5000a is the warmest receiver Ive ever heard. Warmer than my Marantz 2226b and much warmer than my other Sansui, the 881.
The damping factor is higher on the Pioneer SX838, which is attractive to me. Personally, based on a semi-educated guess I'd opt for the Pioneer all things(price) being equal. Both should rock the hell out of high impedance headphones, assuming theyre both in good shape.


----------



## Greendriver

Thanks. They're both from the same supplier, and recapped and serviced. He's 204 miles away, otherwise I'd go and listen to them b4 making a decision.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Oct 26, 2020)

Greendriver said:


> Thanks. They're both from the same supplier, and recapped and serviced. He's 204 miles away, otherwise I'd go and listen to them b4 making a decision.



A pioneer fan boy here, so I know which one I would take.  Marantz sound is too warm for me.


----------



## Oregonian

SpeakerBox said:


> A pioneer fan boy here, so I know which one I would take.  Marantz sound is to warm for me.



Ditto...............have one Marantz (2285B) which I love but have 6 Pioneer amps.


----------



## SpeakerBox

A man ^^^^^ after my own heart.


----------



## PhoenixG (Dec 7, 2020)

I've moved house to a new place and have the stereo running again. It's nice to be able to decompress a bit after a long day.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice setup!


----------



## KG Jag

Not your average rig!


----------



## PhoenixG

KG Jag said:


> Not your average rig!


Thanks! I have to say that a lot of the guys in this thread were just the kind of (bad) influence I needed to hunt for this gear in the first place. @Silent One and his G22000 started my hunt for my 33k, and @Oregonian, @SpeakerBox , and @Skylab have been very encouraging as well - especially when I was doing a lot of trading out of components.


----------



## DeweyCH

I really need to take the time to listen to headphones on my vintage receivers. I have a Sansui 7070 and a Luxman R-117... the Luxman has some issues, but I think I can solve them, and the Sui is just gorgeous (recapped from top to bottom).

















I also have a Hitachi SR-600 that's a sweet little amp. It currently lives with my dad.


----------



## Greendriver

DeweyCH said:


> I really need to take the time to listen to headphones on my vintage receivers. I have a Sansui 7070 and a Luxman R-117... the Luxman has some issues, but I think I can solve them, and the Sui is just gorgeous (recapped from top to bottom).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful. Live the Sansui receivers. Not many around in the UK


----------



## musicman59

DeweyCH, you just brought back memories from when I started in this hobby about 48 years ago with the brand Hitachi.
I was about 13 and my parents got me for Christmas a small Hitachi receiver.... 48 years later and many dollars spent I am thankful they started me on this and blessed I was able to continue progressing on this never ending road to the point I am now.


----------



## elquixote

Hi everyone joined the vintage club w/ my Pioneer SA-8800  waiting for my speaker taps to arrive but so far been enjoying it out of the phones out w/ my HE6


----------



## Oregonian

elquixote said:


> Hi everyone joined the vintage club w/ my Pioneer SA-8800  waiting for my speaker taps to arrive but so far been enjoying it out of the phones out w/ my HE6



That was fast!  Welcome to the outlier club.................now post that gorgeous picture of your SA-8800!


----------



## elquixote




----------



## Monsterzero

elquixote said:


> Hi everyone joined the vintage club w/ my Pioneer SA-8800  waiting for my speaker taps to arrive but so far been enjoying it out of the phones out w/ my HE6


Congrats.
The taps will make a ridiculous difference w/ the HE-6 vs. the HP out.


----------



## BobG55

elquixote said:


>


Very nicel. 😎


----------



## KG Jag

That's a good look from the end of the silver era.


----------



## elquixote

KG Jag said:


> That's a good look from the end of the silver era.



it's in great condition and was recently serviced so should be good for some time (knock on wood).


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice gear @elquixote !


----------



## elquixote

SpeakerBox said:


> Very nice gear @elquixote !



Thank you


----------



## elquixote (Jan 15, 2021)

Monsterzero said:


> Congrats.
> The taps will make a ridiculous difference w/ the HE-6 vs. the HP out.



I just got my speaker taps to xlr cable in today for the SA-8800. I am getting a decent size hum when I connect my XLR cable, currently I have my RME going straight into the SA-8800, I tried using a pre as well in the chain to see if the hum was still there and its the same. I don't get that hum w/ other speaker amps I've tried, even one's w/ more juice (3b-st). Does anyone else w/ a he6 sa-8800 combo have this issue?


----------



## Monsterzero

elquixote said:


> I just got my speaker taps to xlr cable in today for the SA-8800. I am getting a decent size hum when I connect my XLR cable, currently I have my RME going straight into the SA-8800, I tried using a pre as well in the chain to see if the hum was still there and its the same. I don't get that hum w/ other speaker amps I've tried, even one's w/ more juice (3b-st). Does anyone else w/ a he6 sa-8800 combo have this issue?


What input are you using on the SA-8800?
Hum on solid state can often be related to using the 'phono' input, and it not being grounded.


----------



## elquixote

Monsterzero said:


> What input are you using on the SA-8800?
> Hum on solid state can often be related to using the 'phono' input, and it not being grounded.



I am using my RME dac going RCA into the SA-8800 aux.


----------



## elquixote

The power plug for the 8800 is a two prong plug so since it doesn't have the third prong (ground) is there any solutions to grounding it? Not very familiar w/ vintage amps so pardon what I am sure are basic questions lol.


----------



## SpeakerBox

If the two prongs on the plug are both the same size, try reversing it as sometimes that removes hum.


----------



## elquixote

SpeakerBox said:


> If the two prongs on the plug are both the same size, try reversing it as sometimes that removes hum.



I tried that, no luck


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 15, 2021)

elquixote said:


> The power plug for the 8800 is a two prong plug so since it doesn't have the third prong (ground) is there any solutions to grounding it? Not very familiar w/ vintage amps so pardon what I am sure are basic questions lol.


All of my old receivers are of the two pronged variety as well, but no hum as we speak. I have had noise issues in the past though. The possible culprits is nearly endless.
I would recommend trying different electrical outlets, different RCA cables, different inputs, turning off/on light fixtures and other electric devices, etc....
Do you get hum when you attach speakers to the SA8800? If not, I'd try contacting the people who made your tap cable.
Good luck. I hope you can resolve the issue. Noise is such a buzzkill.


----------



## elquixote

Monsterzero said:


> All of my old receivers are of the two pronged variety as well, but no hum as we speak. I have had noise issues in the past though. The possible culprits is nearly endless.
> I would recommend trying different electrical outlets, different RCA cables, different inputs, turning off/on light fixtures and other electric devices, etc....
> Do you get hum when you attach speakers to the SA8800? If not, I'd try contacting the people who made your tap cable.
> Good luck. I hope you can resolve the issue. Noise is such a buzzkill.



Thanks, I'll try whatever I can, yea def kinda annoying, drowned out by most tracks that are busy but def not ideal.


----------



## JoeTho




----------



## UntilThen

I've return to the vintage fold with a Kenwood KA 3300D monster amp at 150w rms 8 ohms. It is in very good condition and even have a built in dac. Year - 1987 - 89.
https://www.hifi-review.com/153667-kenwood-ka-3300d.html

I'm planning to buy a new He6se v2 to be driven by it and also my tower Axis LS88 speakers, which sound really good driven by the Kenwood.


----------



## SpeakerBox

UntilThen said:


> I've return to the vintage fold with a Kenwood KA 3300D monster amp at 150w rms 8 ohms. It is in very good condition and even have a built in dac. Year - 1987 - 89.
> https://www.hifi-review.com/153667-kenwood-ka-3300d.html
> 
> I'm planning to buy a new He6se v2 to be driven by it and also my tower Axis LS88 speakers, which sound really good driven by the Kenwood.



Welcome back!


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> Welcome back!



Thanks, I've send the Kenwood for a full service because I intend to keep it forever. When I heard it at the seller's home powering a pair of giant Legacy Focus Se speakers (USA) I was totally won over. When he brought it over to my place to test it with my Axis LS88 speakers, I was gobsmacked  and wanted to buy it straight away. Losing the monster Sansui was difficult but the Kenwood sounded even better to my ears and being a 240v means I don't need a step down transformer.


----------



## VinMAC

BobG55 said:


> When I first started out in this hobby the latest, popular and what we call "the flavour of the month" headphones & headphone amps were all I could think about.  I put myself in debt in order to  try the ones that would take me to the headphone audiophile promised land.  Well, I'll never be able to afford a Stax SR-009 or a Shangrai-La tube amplifier but I did own some good equipment at one time or another.
> 
> The Focal Utopia (used), HD800 (used and new) , HD800 S (new), PS1000, PS1000e, etc., the Zana Deux S, Headamp GS-X MKII, Taurus MKII, etc.  I've also owned a very expensive Esoteric CD player, PS Audio PerfectWave MKII DAC (PWD), etc.
> 
> ...



Hi Bob, we know us from the Grado thread. You asked me for the type of speaker control box I use to go with the headphone to the loudspeaker taps which is also in my opinion the best way to hear music with headphone, better than with a headphone amp. I have discovered this vintage thread here on head-fi and read side by side back in the past and I must say very exciting thread!

I use a harman kardon 630 vintage receiver, old McIntosh tube amps from the 60ths, the pre C22 and the power amp MC225. I have also a HK A 401 (all vintage gear is recapped) and the newest one is an old Shindo Montrachet tube amp, with sounds outstanding by headphone. The cans I use are the older Grados GS1000i (like you) and a old RS2 (I like the old Grado sound more with more treble energy and transparence than the current e-Series). And my favorite can is an old Ultrasone Edition9, which sounds great with warm sounding amps as like my Ultrasone Signature Pro, which you can still buy.

And I total agree with you: Vintage Amps sound much better as modern headphone amps. I tested many of them.


----------



## UntilThen

VinMAC said:


> And I total agree with you: Vintage Amps sound much better as modern headphone amps. I tested many of them.


I partly agree on this because I've heard good vintage amps and also good headphone amps. Might I also add that I like tube amps but only the ones I find sonically pleasing and some good solid state amps. However generally I agree that some vintage amps are very good and I've owned Sansui AU-717 and Sansui au alpha 907mr and I'll soon be collecting the Kenwood KA 3300D that has gone for an an initial once over service before I take ownership of it.

On Sunday, I tried listening with my HE100se and LCD-3f on speaker taps for the first time and it was with a Mcchanson KT150 SET stereo amp. Eric the amp builder can also add a headphone out jack. However this unit is a trial unit and has no headphone out but Eric made a cable for speakers out, terminating in xlr *for convenience* because my headphone cables has 4-pin xlr balance connectors.

Initially I was very cautious to increase the volume but I gradually got used to it and the volume control with speakers out is much better than I had worried about. It a SET amp that is capable of outputting 12w in UL mode and 6.5w in triode mode. That's a lot for efficient speakers and certainly a lot for my planar headphones. At no time did the volume control exceed a 1/4 turn.

I was impressed with what I heard both from the KT150 amp and speakers out. As there's no headphone out I cannot compare the 2 modes of connecting to headphones though. I was eager to test out the Susvara headphone with it but my friend who owns the Susvara could not come to my place at the last moment.

My thoughts are captured here:-
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/eric-mcchanson-headphone-amp.718350/post-16192442


----------



## VinMAC

UntilThen said:


> I partly agree on this because I've heard good vintage amps and also good headphone amps. Might I also add that I like tube amps but only the ones I find sonically pleasing and some good solid state amps. However generally I agree that some vintage amps are very good and I've owned Sansui AU-717 and Sansui au alpha 907mr and I'll soon be collecting the Kenwood KA 3300D that has gone for an an initial once over service before I take ownership of it.
> 
> On Sunday, I tried listening with my HE100se and LCD-3f on speaker taps for the first time and it was with a Mcchanson KT150 SET stereo amp. Eric the amp builder can also add a headphone out jack. However this unit is a trial unit and has no headphone out but Eric made a cable for speakers out, terminating in xlr *for convenience* because my headphone cables has 4-pin xlr balance connectors.
> 
> ...


That is a very interesting question that you are bringing up, which is how do I get headphones connected to a speaker amplifier without damaging the headphones and making them sound really good. With an adapter without any resistors, you can tap the unadulterated signal from the speaker connections, but you have to be very careful not to turn up too much and destroy the headphones in the process. In addition, the background noise of the amplifier can be heard so very loud.

I then tried a speaker control box from B-Tech, which minimized the background noise and also sounds very good, even if a bit of spatiality and dynamics are lost, but I think that is still within bearable limits. Such devices have probably not caught on, because neither B-Tech nor z. B. Antique Audio still builds such boxes. It's actually a shame, because not everyone is technically well versed in building something like this themselves and I find that with most amplifiers the headphones will sound better through the speaker connections than through the headphone jack, at least that's my experience with low-impedance dynamic headphones. As is the case with high-impedance headphones such as B. Sennbeiser or planar, I don't know.

In my experience, there are some vintage amplifiers, especially tube devices from the 1960s, that have an exceptionally good headphone output because this is switched via the power tubes and therefore has the same sound quality as the speaker connections. These are e.g. B. the McIntosh MAC 1500 Receiver and its integrated amplifier counterpart MA 230.


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 23, 2021)

VinMAC said:


> In addition, the background noise of the amplifier can be heard so very loud.


Surprisingly noise was barely audible when I tried the KT150 amp with speakers taps. I was specifically listening for it and I had to strain to hear a little of it. My most frightening test was to shut off the music and then turn the volume to the max. Even then I could barely hear some transformer noise. As I had only 2 planar magnetic headphones with me then, I had to use the cheaper of the 2, which is the Audeze LCD-3f for the test. My LCD-3f lives through that experience and so did my ears. Nothing was blown up.

I know about some vintage amps having very good headphone output that has the same sound quality as the speakers connections. My Sansui au alpha 907mr is one of them. So I was told by a trusted Sansui expert on the subject. I've also heard about the speaker control box from B-Tech that you talk about.

This practise of using speaker taps has been practised by many here and others parts of Head-Fi forums. In particular if you go to the Susvara thread (AUD $7500) there are many who will tell you this is the way to get that inefficient headphone to sound it's best. After this experiment, I don't disagree with them even though both my headphones do not need this method for them to sound their best. However using speaker taps did make the LCD-3f and the HE1000se shine and that really caught me by surprise. A skeptic is now a believer and that's me. As long as I don't blow up my precious headphones and I don't blow up my ears.....


----------



## VinMAC

UntilThen said:


> Surprisingly noise was barely audible when I tried the KT150 amp with speakers taps. I was specifically listening for it and I had to strain to hear a little of it. My most frightening test was to shut off the music and then turn the volume to the max. Even then I could barely hear some transformer noise. As I had only 2 planar magnetic headphones with me then, I had to use the cheaper of the 2, which is the Audeze LCD-3f for the test. My LCD-3f lives through that experience and so did my ears. Nothing was blown up.
> 
> I know about some vintage amps having very good headphone output that has the same sound quality as the speakers connections. My Sansui au alpha 907mr is one of them. So I was told by a trusted Sansui expert on the subject. I've also heard about the speaker control box from B-Tech that you talk about.
> 
> This practise of using speaker taps has been practised by many here and others parts of Head-Fi forums. In particular if you go to the Susvara thread (AUD $7500) there are many who will tell you this is the way to get that inefficient headphone to sound it's best. After this experiment, I don't disagree with them even though both my headphones do not need this method for them to sound their best. However using speaker taps did make the LCD-3f and the HE1000se shine and that really caught me by surprise. A skeptic is now a believer and that's me. As long as I don't blow up my precious headphones and I don't blow up my ears.....


You are really brave to connect a relatively expensive pair of headphones directly to the speaker terminals and then turn up the volume, I would not have gotten over my heart. But it went well.

There are very few really totally silent tube amplifiers. My quieter one is the Shindo Montrachet, but it also hums in the background but has no background noise. Even expensive Audio Research tube amplifiers rustle at the speaker terminals. Your Mcchanson KT150 SET must therefore be extremely well built if it does not produce any noise-

In my opinion, what is decisive when using the B-Tech Control Box is the quality of the short connecting cables from the speaker terminals to the box. I use high purity speaker copper cables with a warm and very spacious sound and it works really well. With other cables that I tried, things were much worse.


----------



## VinMAC

VinMAC said:


> There are very few really totally silent tube amplifiers. My quieter one is the Shindo Montrachet, but it also hums in the background but has no background noise. Even expensive Audio Research tube amplifiers rustle at the speaker terminals. Your Mcchanson KT150 SET must therefore be extremely well built if it does not produce any noise-


Does anyone know of any other vintage amplifiers where the headphone output is of the same quality as the speaker connections?


----------



## UntilThen

VinMAC said:


> You are really brave to connect a relatively expensive pair of headphones directly to the speaker terminals and then turn up the volume, I would not have gotten over my heart. But it went well.
> 
> There are very few really totally silent tube amplifiers. My quieter one is the Shindo Montrachet, but it also hums in the background but has no background noise. Even expensive Audio Research tube amplifiers rustle at the speaker terminals. Your Mcchanson KT150 SET must therefore be extremely well built if it does not produce any noise-
> 
> In my opinion, what is decisive when using the B-Tech Control Box is the quality of the short connecting cables from the speaker terminals to the box. I use high purity speaker copper cables with a warm and very spacious sound and it works really well. With other cables that I tried, things were much worse.



A bit of context is necessary...

Eric the tube amp specialist is about 70 years old. He has been making and selling his tube amps for years. He is well known locally and his price is budget, amp not as flashy as others but he gets a good number of loyal customers. You can see his ebay listings. This is the McChanson story. https://www.mcchanson.com/

Strangely whilst I've been getting my amps from overseas amp builders, I've not had a single McChanson amp. One day perhaps but I did promise myself that Odyssey will be the last and that is going to be built in the Australian Winter of 2021.

My friend went to see Eric with the intention of getting a custom made headphone / speaker amp. Eric loan him an already built KT150 speaker amp to trial at home. Eric make him the speaker taps cable. My friend had a day listening at home with his Sennheiser HD800. The next day my friend brought the KT150 amp to my home. So I wasn't the guinea pig. The speaker taps have been tested already and his HD800 survive obviously. Besides @Oregonian will tell you that he use speaker taps all the time with his LCD-3f on his behemoth Pioneer vintage receiver. Many others do that to vintage amps and well known current day solid states like Pass Labs, etc. Never heard of a single instance where someone blow up their drivers or ears. Maybe it did happen and it was never shared.  

Going forward, I'm interested in getting a specially made speaker taps cable and will start to use my headphones with my Kenwood KA 3300D. Planning to buy a He6se which thrives on lots of power so I've been told. Susvara too.

A fine example of a speaker taps cable. This example is costly I believe. You can get cheaper ones off ebay. Picture belongs to someone on Head-Fi. Sorry if I borrow it to show without asking first. Hope that is ok !


----------



## UntilThen

Reading his story...

_It will eventually come… When I am too old to go on. It will be a sad day.  
But McChanson amps will continue to sing loudly and sweetly..._

reminds me of my mortality. I'm glad to enjoy my head-fi and hifi while I can. However I know I will slide off my passion of buying new amps and headphones. I will still enjoy the ones I have and will enjoy listening to music because that is the whole purpose of buying gear. I will also enjoy golf for a more balance life.


----------



## VinMAC

UntilThen said:


> Reading his story...
> 
> _It will eventually come… When I am too old to go on. It will be a sad day.
> But McChanson amps will continue to sing loudly and sweetly..._
> ...


Yes, there are always old, experienced technicians in Germany who grew up in the heyday of tube amplifier construction and who use the old principles to build very solid and good-sounding tube amplifiers. But I don't see the end of hi-fi coming just in terms of tube amps. What happens when the generation of technicians who can still fix old amplifiers dies? If you go to hi-fi fairs, you will mostly see visitors over 50 years of age. My kids only listen to music on their smartphones, the need for higher playback quality does not seem to exist. With the disappearance of the repairers, the mass of hi-fi friends will slowly disappear ...


----------



## UntilThen

VinMAC said:


> Yes, there are always old, experienced technicians in Germany who grew up in the heyday of tube amplifier construction and who use the old principles to build very solid and good-sounding tube amplifiers. But I don't see the end of hi-fi coming just in terms of tube amps. What happens when the generation of technicians who can still fix old amplifiers dies? If you go to hi-fi fairs, you will mostly see visitors over 50 years of age. My kids only listen to music on their smartphones, the need for higher playback quality does not seem to exist. With the disappearance of the repairers, the mass of hi-fi friends will slowly disappear ...


Oh don't you worry. A new generation of young talented engineers are now actively making tube amps and they are very good. Here in the Head-Fi forum, I can think of 3 at least. My amp builder who is building my SET amp call Odyssey is one of them. He hails from Sweden and is very talented. @L0rdGwyn is the other. So young and so very smart.  

Not all young people are on smartphones only. There has been a resurgence of interest in vinyl and young people are more astute with good HiFi gear.


----------



## VinMAC

UntilThen said:


> Oh don't you worry. A new generation of young talented engineers are now actively making tube amps and they are very good. Here in the Head-Fi forum, I can think of 3 at least. My amp builder who is building my SET amp call Odyssey is one of them. He hails from Sweden and is very talented. @L0rdGwyn is the other. So young and so very smart.
> 
> Not all young people are on smartphones only. There has been a resurgence of interest in vinyl and young people are more astute with good HiFi gear.


Thank you for your more optimistic view. I hope you are right and this wonderful hifi hobby won't die out in a few decades.


----------



## SpeakerBox

UntilThen said:


> Oh don't you worry. A new generation of young talented engineers are now actively making tube amps and they are very good. Here in the Head-Fi forum, I can think of 3 at least. My amp builder who is building my SET amp call Odyssey is one of them. He hails from Sweden and is very talented. @L0rdGwyn is the other. So young and so very smart.
> 
> Not all young people are on smartphones only. There has been a resurgence of interest in vinyl and young people are more astute with good HiFi gear.



Vinyl has had my attention for about 60 years, currently in the process of upgrading the platter on my VPI scout to VPI Classic status.


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> Vinyl has had my attention for about 60 years, currently in the process of upgrading the platter on my VPI scout to VPI Classic status.


After buying the RP8, I just didn't feel the need to upgrade my turntable. Pretty much like my Yggdrasil. There will be better but I don't need better than these because they sound like the best to me.

VPI or Avid turntables are gorgeous looking. Or even the classic looking Linn LP12 Sondek

So is the RP8.


----------



## kid vic

UntilThen said:


> After buying the RP8, I just didn't feel the need to upgrade my turntable. Pretty much like my Yggdrasil. There will be better but I don't need better than these because they sound like the best to me.
> 
> VPI or Avid turntables are gorgeous looking. Or even the classic looking Linn LP12 Sondek
> 
> So is the RP8.


I'm in the same position as you but with an Oracle Delphi; my personal vote for best looking turntable as well


----------



## UntilThen

kid vic said:


> I'm in the same position as you but with an Oracle Delphi; my personal vote for best looking turntable as well


That’s a beautiful turntable. 😊


----------



## UntilThen

Got the Kenwood KA 3300D home after service. Looking spic and span. Hook it up to the tower speakers and it can sure go very loud if needed. The headphone out sound very good too with my LCD-3f.


----------



## UntilThen

In the rack she goes but I'm thinking of bringing the Kenwood to Canberra. Swapping my LCD-3f with my friend's He6se V2 for a few weeks to trial with the Kenwood via speaker taps.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Feb 26, 2021)

Nice tables all.  Beautiful stuff!  Will post a picture of my scout once the classic platter is installed.


----------



## Oregonian

UntilThen said:


> In the rack she goes but I'm thinking of bringing the Kenwood to Canberra. Swapping my LCD-3f with my friend's He6se V2 for a few weeks to trial with the Kenwood via speaker taps.



What model number is that Pioneer CD player?  Sweet.................I have a PD-70 from the early '80's but like the look of this one - good match with vintage equipment.


----------



## UntilThen

Oregonian said:


> What model number is that Pioneer CD player?  Sweet.................I have a PD-70 from the early '80's but like the look of this one - good match with vintage equipment.


It's a Pioneer PD-D6 sacd / cd player which I bought cheap several years ago and hasn't skip a bit. Some things I bought expensive but this I bought cheap and turn out to do it's job very well.

https://www.goodgearguide.com.au/review/pioneer/pd-d6/219698/


----------



## UntilThen (Feb 26, 2021)

Guy who sold me the Kenwood was also selling this Denon cd player. I was so tempted but I have several other things to buy. 

https://audio-database.com/DENON-COLUMBIA/player/dvd-a1-e.html


----------



## Geoduck

I sometimes use a completely rebuilt Fisher 500C with my HD600's. It's a great match for those cans.
I most often use a dedicated vacuum tube headphone amp or my trusty Audioquest Cobalt though.


----------



## UntilThen

I almost exclusively use my headphone tube amps but the vintage Kenwood is for the speakers


----------



## SpeakerBox

Geoduck said:


> I sometimes use a completely rebuilt Fisher 500C with my HD600's. It's a great match for those cans.
> I most often use a dedicated vacuum tube headphone amp or my trusty Audioquest Cobalt though.



Same results with my restored Fisher 400 receiver and the HD600.  Great match also!


----------



## SpeakerBox

I might add that the Fisher 400 matched with my LS3/5As is sublime.


----------



## Geoduck

SpeakerBox said:


> I might add that the Fisher 400 matched with my LS3/5As is sublime.


I have no doubt. What a great match!


----------



## Nellie75 (Mar 3, 2021)

I did an IKEA hack on this cabinet to fit my Marantz perfectly and to give me enough room for my turntable.


Stained it brown and added some headphone hangers.




Marantz 2245 serviced with new caps but all original.  Had to replace the lamps recently (incandescent).




Rega P3 with Ortofon Bronze cart and cork mat.




Wharfdale Diamond 10.7 Tower speakers match the 1980’s wood trim in my house.







I also run the mains into a Polk sub which gives me some awesome low end.

The remote channel of the Marantz goes to my outside deck speakers. Need to trim some bush!



I also subscribe to Amazon Music UHD to stream 24bit (Flac) from my laptop to my Schit Modi 3 DAC into the Marantz. I control it remotely on my iPhone from outside. 


Currently listening to Big Wreck.  Most understated talent in rock.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nellie75 said:


> I did an IKEA hack on this cabinet to fit my Marantz perfectly and to give me enough room for my turntable.
> Stained it brown and added some headphone hangers.
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, hopefully it is well ventilated?


----------



## Nellie75

SpeakerBox said:


> Nice, hopefully it is well ventilated?


I had a cabinet fan behind the Marantz that would turn on with the receiver.  The guy who serviced my receiver said it was unnecessary.  I decided to remove the back panel of the cabinet and did away with the fan.  Been running great the past 2 years since then.


----------



## Geoduck

That looks lovely, nicely done!


----------



## Oregonian

Nellie75 said:


> I did an IKEA hack on this cabinet to fit my Marantz perfectly and to give me enough room for my turntable.
> Stained it brown and added some headphone hangers.
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome setup and hack on the cabinet!   Love the pics!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## VinMAC

SpeakerBox said:


> I might add that the Fisher 400 matched with my LS3/5As is sublime.


I have paired my old McIntosh C22 and MC225 tube amps with the new Falcon LS 3/5a - they sing! It is a dream team. I think old vintage gear work great with the small 3/5a.


----------



## SpeakerBox (Mar 6, 2021)

Agreed: if you don't have to have earth shaking bass the LS3/5As are the way to go.


----------



## VinMAC

Regrettably, I don't have enough floor space for all 3 monitors: Spendor Classic 3/1, Spendor 15/1 Prof. and the Falcon LS 3/5a, which sounds best of all. Otherwise from left to right: 

Shindo Montrachet, some Grado and Ultrasone headphones, Harman Kardon A 401, Luxman D380 CD player, Harman Kardon 630 receiver, McIntosh MCD500 CD-PLayer, McIntosh C22 tube preamp, McIntosh MC225 tube power amp.


----------



## SpeakerBox

VinMAC said:


> Regrettably, I don't have enough floor space for all 3 monitors: Spendor Classic 3/1, Spendor 15/1 Prof. and the Falcon LS 3/5a, which sounds best of all. Otherwise from left to right:
> 
> Shindo Montrachet, some Grado and Ultrasone headphones, Harman Kardon A 401, Luxman D380 CD player, Harman Kardon 630 receiver, McIntosh MCD500 CD-PLayer, McIntosh C22 tube preamp, McIntosh MC225 tube power amp.


Nice gear!  I have a similar problem with three sets of speakers in my listening room.  Nice to be able to switch between three different systems (First Watt F6, Pioneer SX-1250, Fisher 400) any time I want though.


----------



## VinMAC

Yes, the old Fisher, Scott and McIntosh tube devices from the 60s already sound legendary. I'm still missing a Scott 299B in my collection.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Listening to my restored SX-1250 via B&W 602 S2 today.


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> Listening to my restored SX-1250 via B&W 602 S2 today.


And ?


----------



## SpeakerBox

BobG55 said:


> And ?


It sounds stinking awesome!


----------



## UntilThen

Stinking awesome is good. My Kenwood KA 3300D is fruity awesome with my Axis LS88.


----------



## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> It sounds stinking awesome!


----------



## VinMAC

What are your favorite vintage receivers? I owned the Marantz 2265B, 2385 and the 2270. The 2385 has had a very big stage but the best sounding was the 2270. Also the McIntosh MAC 1700 and MAC 1500 which has had a very sweet tube sound and high quality headphone output via the tube power amp section. I love my Harman Kardon 630 twin powered very much because of its high resolution (I think more than Marantz) and its wide stage.


----------



## SpeakerBox

VinMAC said:


> What are your favorite vintage receivers? I owned the Marantz 2265B, 2385 and the 2270. The 2385 has had a very big stage but the best sounding was the 2270. Also the McIntosh MAC 1700 and MAC 1500 which has had a very sweet tube sound and high quality headphone output via the tube power amp section. I love my Harman Kardon 630 twin powered very much because of its high resolution (I think more than Marantz) and its wide stage.



As much as I love the SX-1250 and HK330A - the Fisher 400 Receiver has better sound.  Almost holographic.  Even gives my First Watt F6 a run for the money SQ wise.


----------



## VinMAC (Mar 19, 2021)

SpeakerBox said:


> As much as I love the SX-1250 and HK330A - the Fisher 400 Receiver has better sound.  Almost holographic.  Even gives my First Watt F6 a run for the money SQ wise.


That is my impression too, that the old tube gear of the 60ths have much more fuller, colored, dynamic and often more holographic sound than the transistor devices of the 70ths. The old MAC1500 has the best tuner sound that I have ever heard, better than CD-Players for many thousands USD/EUR.


----------



## SpeakerBox

VinMAC said:


> That is my impression too, that the old tube gear of the 60ths have much more fuller, colored, dynamic and often more holographic sound than the transistor devices of the 70ths. The old MAC1500 has the best tuner sound that I have ever heard, better than CD-Players for many thousands USD/EUR.



Agreed, I have an old Kenwood KT-7550 tuner (restored/modified per fmtunerinfo.com) that beats any CD player I have heard to date.


----------



## VinMAC

Have any of you heard of a Fisher X-100?


----------



## SpeakerBox

VinMAC said:


> Have any of you heard of a Fisher X-100?


I think that was discussed in this thread a few years back, may want to search it.


----------



## red71rum

Here is my modestly powered Yamaha CR 620 I got for free a while back, had to get it worked on as it would only hum, several caps were replaced. Works and sounds great. I have it hooked up to my iMac via my Topping D30 and Sonus Faber Chameleon Ts.


----------



## BobG55

red71rum said:


> Here is my modestly powered Yamaha CR 620 I got for free a while back, had to get it worked on as it would only hum, several caps were replaced. Works and sounds great. I have it hooked up to my iMac via my Topping D30 and Sonus Faber Chameleon Ts.


Nice.


----------



## Angertobi

JoeTho said:


>


Hy what the name of the speakers?


----------



## gr4474 (May 1, 2021)

I just bought this Sony! I love the toggle switches, buttons and knobs. Good find I think. Opinions?   Edit: It is listed as 95 watts, but googling shows only 18 watts. Am I missing something? Should I cancel the order?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/133717293769


----------



## BobG55

On the HiFi Engine site it is indeed listed at 18 watts.  If it was listed at 95 watts & that’s one of the main reasons you bought it then you’d have every reason to return it.  But that’s up to you, I can’t decide for you.  That’s too bad though, it must be disappointing.


----------



## gr4474 (May 3, 2021)

Thanks...I did ask for a return pretty soon after ordering. I just checked, and it is already refunded. It's fun searching. It's hard getting recommendations on such a huge thread. So many have multiple dream systems. My max budget is $500.

Edit: I ended up buying this Pioneer SX1000TD 50 Watts/chan    https://www.ebay.com/itm/393273877859



I'm really excited to have this work of art.  Why did I buy modern receivers all these years?


----------



## Mightygrey

I reckon that old school VU meters make music sound at least 5% better.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice audio research gear in the pic.


----------



## Nuhapaatti

Hello there "vintage integrated" people!

I just connected my AudioQuest DragonFly Black v1.5 to my Technics SA-103 (from the 80's) and plugged in my Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohms and gotta say, it sounds way better than I ever thought. There's no distortion, the amp tames down the Beyer's highs but gives the DragonFly some boost to shine! New to hobby but I have my Roon upsampling to 24/96 and I'm enjoying the music like never before. My Sony MDR-1AM2 sounds good too but I think that I'm in love with the open-backs from now on!


----------



## Oregonian

Nuhapaatti said:


> Hello there "vintage integrated" people!
> 
> I just connected my AudioQuest DragonFly Black v1.5 to my Technics SA-103 (from the 80's) and plugged in my Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohms and gotta say, it sounds way better than I ever thought. There's no distortion, the amp tames down the Beyer's highs but gives the DragonFly some boost to shine! New to hobby but I have my Roon upsampling to 24/96 and I'm enjoying the music like never before. My Sony MDR-1AM2 sounds good too but I think that I'm in love with the open-backs from now on!



Welcome to the club!  Too bad more folks don't even give these beauties a try..............they don't know what they are missing!


----------



## BobG55

Nuhapaatti said:


> Hello there "vintage integrated" people!
> 
> I just connected my AudioQuest DragonFly Black v1.5 to my Technics SA-103 (from the 80's) and plugged in my Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250 ohms and gotta say, it sounds way better than I ever thought. There's no distortion, the amp tames down the Beyer's highs but gives the DragonFly some boost to shine! New to hobby but I have my Roon upsampling to 24/96 and I'm enjoying the music like never before. My Sony MDR-1AM2 sounds good too but I think that I'm in love with the open-backs from now on!


Congratulations.  I use my T1.1 & DT880/ 600 ohm w/ my Kenwood KA8006 and like you say, I’m enjoying the music like never before.  Hope you’re taking advantage of the tone/ sound controls.  My philosophy is, that’s what they’re there for.  Happy for you.


----------



## Nuhapaatti

BobG55 said:


> Congratulations.  I use my T1.1 & DT880/ 600 ohm w/ my Kenwood KA8006 and like you say, I’m enjoying the music like never before.  Hope you’re taking advantage of the tone/ sound controls.  My philosophy is, that’s what they’re there for.  Happy for you.


For sure! It's nice to have that sub bass roll-off extended with the tune controls etc. Nice one you have there too, enjoy!


----------



## red71rum

I was visiting my parents  and took apart my family's receiver, Onkyo 2500MarkII, that I listened to when I was growing up and cleaned it (pots, faceplate, knobs etc) (left channel was not working). Now the receiver sounds great, both channels working, but I did not have any bulbs to replace any that were out. My parents did not even notice that one channel was out before I worked on it: )


----------



## Oregonian

red71rum said:


> I was visiting my parents  and took apart my family's receiver, Onkyo 2500MarkII, that I listened to when I was growing up and cleaned it (pots, faceplate, knobs etc) (left channel was not working). Now the receiver sounds great, both channels working, but I did not have any bulbs to replace any that were out. My parents did not even notice that one channel was out before I worked on it: )



I've always loved those Onkyo's!  Nice job...............amazing what a little Deoxit will do for these vintage beauties!


----------



## MacMan31

Hey I came across this thread while looking for info on vintage amps used for headphones. Right now my stereo amp is a modern Marantz PM7005. Overall it sounds great with speakers but pretty poor via the headphone jack. My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. I'm on a quest to amalgamate my stereo and headphone setups into one. Is that even possible? I've got my eye on an older (not vintage) Marantz PM7200 Class A/AB amp. But I'm not sure if Headphones would sound any good on it. But I'm also looking at some vintage amps locally such as the Yamaha CA-610 II or the Pioneer SX-650. Why do many modern stereo amps or AVRs sound poor with headphones? Also how can I integrate a vintage stereo amp into a modern setup which includes a Node 2i streamer, CD player, 4K TV and 4K BD player?


----------



## PopZeus

MacMan31 said:


> Hey I came across this thread while looking for info on vintage amps used for headphones. Right now my stereo amp is a modern Marantz PM7005. Overall it sounds great with speakers but pretty poor via the headphone jack. My headphones are the HD6XX and ZMF Aeolus. I'm on a quest to amalgamate my stereo and headphone setups into one. Is that even possible? I've got my eye on an older (not vintage) Marantz PM7200 Class A/AB amp. But I'm not sure if Headphones would sound any good on it. But I'm also looking at some vintage amps locally such as the Yamaha CA-610 II or the Pioneer SX-650. Why do many modern stereo amps or AVRs sound poor with headphones? Also how can I integrate a vintage stereo amp into a modern setup which includes a Node 2i streamer, CD player, 4K TV and 4K BD player?


With that selection of headphones, I'd just look into a small tube amp and let them really cut loose. As long as you can send a line out with your receiver or source to the amp, you should be fine.


----------



## MacMan31

PopZeus said:


> With that selection of headphones, I'd just look into a small tube amp and let them really cut loose. As long as you can send a line out with your receiver or source to the amp, you should be fine.



Well I'm not sure I want to go down the tube rolling rabbit hole. But how can I integrate a headphone amp with a speaker amp and the various sources? I have a Marantz HD-DAC1 headphone amp with built in DAC.


----------



## Sonic Defender

MacMan31 said:


> Well I'm not sure I want to go down the tube rolling rabbit hole. But how can I integrate a headphone amp with a speaker amp and the various sources? I have a Marantz HD-DAC1 headphone amp with built in DAC.


No need to do either, get a speaker tap cable made and run your headphones directly from the speaker terminals. You'll never, ever need another dedicated headphone amplifier again. I did this probably close to 6 years ago with my NAD M3. The M3 had no headphone input and I just knew that it was such a nice piece of gear that I really wanted to use for headphones. I had Trevor at Norne Audio make my speaker tap cable and I have never looked back. I drove an HD600/650 and HD800S from it, not to mention many other headphones. 

I had a 12 foot cable made into two sections and later I had a few short extensions made by PETEREK (not sure if he is still a member here) so that no matter how the headphone cups were terminated (SMC,1/4",2.5/3.5mm) I could use them with the speaker tap cable. Brilliant solution. It isn't surprising that your Marantz receiver doesn't have the best sound from the headphone out, it would most likely just have a resistor network inline which can impact dynamics. You said it yourself that the speaker out put sounds great so why not use the speaker terminals?

The M3 puts out a full 180 watts and I have used headphones as low as 16ohm with it. Well worth considering. Perhaps the most important aspect of amplification is the power supply and a speaker amp such as you have should have a nice enough power supply. There are dedicated threads here about speaker tap cables, maybe do some reading and research the idea. I know that I haven't needed or wanted to buy another dedicated headphone amp since. You end up with a one box solution for both speakers and headphones.


----------



## MacMan31

Sonic Defender said:


> No need to do either, get a speaker tap cable made and run your headphones directly from the speaker terminals. You'll never, ever need another dedicated headphone amplifier again. I did this probably close to 6 years ago with my NAD M3. The M3 had no headphone input and I just knew that it was such a nice piece of gear that I really wanted to use for headphones. I had Trevor at Norne Audio make my speaker tap cable and I have never looked back. I drove an HD600/650 and HD800S from it, not to mention many other headphones.
> 
> I had a 12 foot cable made into two sections and later I had a few short extensions made by PETEREK (not sure if he is still a member here) so that no matter how the headphone cups were terminated (SMC,1/4",2.5/3.5mm) I could use them with the speaker tap cable. Brilliant solution. It isn't surprising that your Marantz receiver doesn't have the best sound from the headphone out, it would most likely just have a resistor network inline which can impact dynamics. You said it yourself that the speaker out put sounds great so why not use the speaker terminals?
> 
> The M3 puts out a full 180 watts and I have used headphones as low as 16ohm with it. Well worth considering. Perhaps the most important aspect of amplification is the power supply and a speaker amp such as you have should have a nice enough power supply. There are dedicated threads here about speaker tap cables, maybe do some reading and research the idea. I know that I haven't needed or wanted to buy another dedicated headphone amp since. You end up with a one box solution for both speakers and headphones.



Well my amp only has one set of speaker terminals. There is no speaker A and B. What does a speaker table cable look like? A google search doesn't give me any results.


----------



## PopZeus

MacMan31 said:


> Well I'm not sure I want to go down the tube rolling rabbit hole. But how can I integrate a headphone amp with a speaker amp and the various sources? I have a Marantz HD-DAC1 headphone amp with built in DAC.


You don't have to obsessively roll tubes. Just buy something with an agreeable sound out of the box and then replace the tubes every year or so depending on usage. Upgrade when it's time to replace and it will feel like a newish amp. The switch to tube amplification alone will make you fall in love with your HD6XX and Aeolus even more. With your DAC1, it has 2 RCA outputs. Sure, one is variable, but you can still use one for your speaker amp and the other for the headphone amp.


----------



## nbourbaki

gr4474 said:


> I just bought this Sony! I love the toggle switches, buttons and knobs. Good find I think. Opinions?   Edit: It is listed as 95 watts, but googling shows only 18 watts. Am I missing something? Should I cancel the order?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/133717293769


Model STR-6045 (1972)
AM-Stereo FM design; 25 W/channel continuous sine-wave into 8 ohms with both channels driven at 0.5% THD; 
dynamic power 37 1/2W per channel into 8 ohms; 42 W/channel into 4ohms; 
power bandwidth 10-30,000 Hz; response 10-50 000 Hz +0, -3 dB at rated output;
input sensitivity 2.5 mV; FM sensitivity 2.6 μV for 30 dB quieting; capture ratio 1.5 dB (IHF);
Oiled walnut cabinet optional; metal cabinet; $229.50

One of the reasons that the FTC got involved in advertised power ratings.  Peak power, dynamic power and the like were eliminated.  Only RMS specs which simplified comparing amps.  You have a very nice receiver regardless of total watts.


----------



## OldRoadToad

gr4474 said:


> I just bought this Sony! I love the toggle switches, buttons and knobs. Good find I think. Opinions?   Edit: It is listed as 95 watts, but googling shows only 18 watts. Am I missing something? Should I cancel the order?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/133717293769


Simply beautiful and beautifully simple.  Well done, indeed!

ORT


----------



## MacMan31

Speaking of Sony amplifiers there is an STR-V6 (circa 1978) up for sale locally for $850 (Canadian). It's been fully serviced. Anyone have experience with this amp and would it be a good choice?


----------



## nbourbaki (Jul 6, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> Speaking of Sony amplifiers there is an STR-V6 (circa 1978) up for sale locally for $850 (Canadian). It's been fully serviced. Anyone have experience with this amp and would it be a good choice?


I have a STR-V6 as my bedroom amp.  Clean and powerful.  It doesn't have pre-outs, but other than that, I retired a Marantz 2270 for the V6.  I don't use it for headphones


----------



## Sonic Defender

MacMan31 said:


> Well my amp only has one set of speaker terminals. There is no speaker A and B. What does a speaker table cable look like? A google search doesn't give me any results.


That is a shame, ideally you would have two sets of speaker terminals.


----------



## OldRoadToad

I still have this beauty along with a nice Kenwood receiver and a dual turntable receiver Sony setup.


I just need three more rooms for them, LOL!

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

MacMan31 said:


> Well my amp only has one set of speaker terminals. There is no speaker A and B. What does a speaker table cable look like? A google search doesn't give me any results.



That's how it looks like.


----------



## SpeakerBox

I used this DIY adapter to listen to my HD600 on my HK330A receiver.  They sounded horrible via the HP jack.


----------



## SpeakerBox

And frankly - the HD600 are not that impressive to me, although driving them with vintage gear helps.


----------



## OldRoadToad

SpeakerBox said:


> And frankly - the HD600 are not that impressive to me, although driving them with vintage gear helps.


For me, the memories of decades long past only makes the listening experience all the better, my friend.  Well said, indeed!

ORT


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 15, 2021)

Pioneer SA-7500 I'm restoring. Was my first real amp I got handed to me from my mom back when I was 18, so has some sentimental value to keep around. Trying to restore the wooden case so currently staining that but the veneer top is being an ass and I may end up scrapping it and keeping it just the black metal stock case, which at least is 95% mint outside of a small rust spot near the back, and matches all the other black/chrome gear. Need to fix the pots, a bit noisy.

It sounds amazing fwiw. I'm remembering now why I shelved my Schiit Valhalla and kept using this for headphones for several years. It's not articulate, but its got character and is really fun.






EDIT: It's actually kind of crazy - the resolution on this thing. Now, the Bluetooth DAC can only handle lossy AptX (and sometimes I find macos switches to SBC, shittier) and yet I'm finding I'm hearing depth and layers on songs with greater detail than my tubed up Valhalla w/ an actual DAC handling lossless files. I can't say it's totally better, but in some areas it excels and am really interested to see how it sounds with a proper EQ and source (the 2 band tone control doesnt cut it for me but it helps). I still think the Valhalla is 'better' because I've EQ'd the crap out of it to my liking, but stock vs stock the Pioneer is hands down better with my HD800s. The resolution (ie, I'm hearing layers of vocals on a metal track I forgot existed, the background stuff takes forever to decay and has absolute clarity - word for word, I can hear these background lines on a chorus that otherwise I thought were murmurs), but that depth comes with a price of being a bit top heavy, and it sounds like it has a veil over everything, guitars just dont have the growl I prefer, even if they sound deadlier.

I now remember why I loved this amp all those years back lol


----------



## SpeakerBox

Very nice gear @Lvivske !


----------



## Lvivske

SpeakerBox said:


> Very nice gear @Lvivske !



I know you're talking about the Voltron in the corner


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> I know you're talking about the Voltron in the corner



No, actually quite a vintage Pioneer fan - I have a restored SX-1250.


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 15, 2021)

Ugh I feel like I'm going full Zeos here

power toggle (sound on) mmmmmmm


----------



## Oregonian

Lvivske said:


> Pioneer SA-7500 I'm restoring. Was my first real amp I got handed to me from my mom back when I was 18, so has some sentimental value to keep around. Trying to restore the wooden case so currently staining that but the veneer top is being an ass and I may end up scrapping it and keeping it just the black metal stock case, which at least is 95% mint outside of a small rust spot near the back, and matches all the other black/chrome gear. Need to fix the pots, a bit noisy.
> 
> It sounds amazing fwiw. I'm remembering now why I shelved my Schiit Valhalla and kept using this for headphones for several years. It's not articulate, but its got character and is really fun.
> 
> ...


Love the Pioneer!  I have the SA-7500II version....................great little amps!  

In case you are interested, there's a guy on Audiokarma named "sawdust" who makes cases for many Pioneer amps.  I got one from him for my SA-8800 and it is incredible.  
Vintage rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Oregonian

SpeakerBox said:


> No, actually quite a vintage Pioneer fan - I have a restored SX-1250.



Ditto..................have a SA-608, SA-7500II, SA-9500II, SA-8800, SA-9900 and two Spec systems (both fed by Spec 1 preamps - one Spec 2 and and one Spec 4 amp).


----------



## Lvivske (Jul 15, 2021)

Oregonian said:


> Love the Pioneer!  I have the SA-7500II version....................great little amps!
> 
> In case you are interested, there's a guy on Audiokarma named "sawdust" who makes cases for many Pioneer amps.  I got one from him for my SA-8800 and it is incredible.
> Vintage rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


wow looks like good stuff!

this is more of a restore so if i cant make the stain job look good i'll stick metal, though now I'm getting wild ideas in my head of cooking up something with like burl walnut or flame maple and just pushing the envelope....no......i need to stop with the audio gear.....



Oregonian said:


> Ditto..................have a SA-608, SA-7500II, SA-9500II, SA-8800, SA-9900 and two Spec systems (both fed by Spec 1 preamps - one Spec 2 and and one Spec 4 amp).



I'm already getting a favorites list together in the classifieds of some pioneer and marantz stuff, i need more green and blue tuner backlights in my life


----------



## Lvivske

cleaning pots on this thing and its made a huge difference

question, i notice a hum on the left channel, but its not bound to the channel - if i balance and put it all on right, my left ear is still subject to hum, regardless of source. It picks up at around 3 on the volume knob and after 8 it dies out. Engaging tone control seems to make it louder. This is all very minor, still quieter than my tube amp, but just curious since it's inconsistent. 

Also, if an input has nothing plugged in (like aux), theres a ton of noise. Is this normal for open inputs?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> cleaning pots on this thing and its made a huge difference
> 
> question, i notice a hum on the left channel, but its not bound to the channel - if i balance and put it all on right, my left ear is still subject to hum, regardless of source. It picks up at around 3 on the volume knob and after 8 it dies out. Engaging tone control seems to make it louder. This is all very minor, still quieter than my tube amp, but just curious since it's inconsistent.
> 
> Also, if an input has nothing plugged in (like aux), theres a ton of noise. Is this normal for open inputs?


Generally hum is due to a ground loop or on older equipment a bad capacitor some where in the unit.  More than likely a recap will fix the problem.


----------



## Lvivske

SpeakerBox said:


> Generally hum is due to a ground loop or on older equipment a bad capacitor some where in the unit.  More than likely a recap will fix the problem.


eh figured that was plan b

also noticing the scratchiness in the volume knob keeps coming back; respraying the contact cleaner fixed it. Do I need Deoxit or a lubricant as well? (deoxit is like $35 a can here so was putting it off)


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> eh figured that was plan b
> 
> also noticing the scratchiness in the volume knob keeps coming back; respraying the contact cleaner fixed it. Do I need Deoxit or a lubricant as well? (deoxit is like $35 a can here so was putting it off)


I'd recommend DeoxIt D5, does a great job.  The best stuff IMHO.


----------



## Lvivske

for the price i guess i can live with the occasional blip for now

i also noticed that when i'm on tuner, i can hear the input from aux playing (very lightly). Is this bleeding of source normal for the era?


----------



## Lvivske

Question if anyone has experience with this, but I noticed the pre-out/power-in on the back (with 2 U shaped metal pieces having them always connected, and they need to be in for the amp to function

curious, with my current setup im gonna configure (DAC>EQ>AUX-IN), is there any benefit to going DAC>AUX-IN>PRE-OUT>EQ>POWER-IN? That is, removing the EQ from the source input and instead putting it in the pre section of the signal? Is that cleaner or no difference?


----------



## SpeakerBox (Jul 18, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> Question if anyone has experience with this, but I noticed the pre-out/power-in on the back (with 2 U shaped metal pieces having them always connected, and they need to be in for the amp to function
> 
> curious, with my current setup im gonna configure (DAC>EQ>AUX-IN), is there any benefit to going DAC>AUX-IN>PRE-OUT>EQ>POWER-IN? That is, removing the EQ from the source input and instead putting it in the pre section of the signal? Is that cleaner or no


Well, hard to say.  But the second method you mention would require additional cabling as opposed to the former.  I think I would tend to stick with DAC>EQ>AUX-IN.  I run my external DAC into the adapter input on my 1250 as the schematic seemed to show a little less circuitry that way.  Tried to minimize the signal path.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> for the price i guess i can live with the occasional blip for now
> 
> i also noticed that when i'm on tuner, i can hear the input from aux playing (very lightly). Is this bleeding of source normal for the era?



May be a capacitor issue.  Fortunately you can just shut off whatever is feeding the aux.


----------



## Lvivske

SpeakerBox said:


> Well, hard to say.  But the second method you mention would require additional cabling as opposed to the former.  I think I would tend to stick with DAC>EQ>AUX-IN.  I run my external DAC into the adapter input on my 1250 as the schematic seemed to show a little less circuitry that way.  Tried to minimize the signal path.


At the same time, it had me wondering if basic shielded cabling would be better than just the exposed metal prong connecting the two sources 

I guess I'll experiment💁


----------



## popa

Sonic Defender said:


> That is a shame, ideally you would have two sets of speaker terminals.


Look up. I use one on my MP-301 1. It has a headphone jack in the back which is very unhandy. Also it only has 1pair of speaker outs. This Russound works very well. Should be able to find on ebay. This way you can still use speakers if you want to.
TBL-75 Table Top Volume Control​


----------



## lantian (Aug 26, 2021)

Though I'd share some picof my sansui au d33.  Simply fantastic sounding amp with incredible specs. Even so wasn't up to my requirements so ended up rebuilding almost the whole thing.  Replaced all caps, all elkos are audionote standard(except for the8200uf power filters those are not 10000uf63v mundorf mlytic)  all ceramics and polystyrene capshave been replaced with polypropylene and silver mics where poly was not available.
After this stillwasnt quite where it could be.  So took a look at the resistors.  Started by changing the ones on headphone output with 220ohm TKD metal films( terrible sounding resistor) quickly changed them out for amtrans carbon films,  wow.  Now hadseen what moder good carbon films can do got takman Rex for all signal path and takman Rey for power and everything else. Replaced emitter resistors with mundorf 10w mox,  and replaced some 2w 4.7ohm resistors with 5w 4.7ohm kiwames. The results are beyond spectacular. Started to change some cables aswelll. Stock was steel so checked silver plated copper and results are fantastic.  So in the next couple of weeks the goal is to. Change all signal cables to fine silver and perhaps power cables for occ copper(not sure yet). Gonna ad more pics once I get home to a proper network


----------



## lantian

A bit of update thought I'd post this as well. All cables that carry signal are now changed to fine silver 0.2mm diameter(know bigger diameter would be better but this works and sounds better than anything that I had available or at hand). Also all the input selectors and phono board and mute are completely bypassed with the same 0.2mm silver cables(find this size to be enough, using it for all my audio cables just a single strand) The difference is fabulous. Background is completely gone. Whilemusicality, imaging, timbres and extensions are massively improved even Soundstage is somehow improved. Loving the results was a pain in the ass to do though. The original cables seem to have been steel. 
Almost done with this amp, got some resistors for psu coming in next week, and amtrans AMRG 1.5k and 220ohm resistors for testing as input and headphone output ones. 
Love this amp beyond description,  best sounding device I have ever heard.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice work sir!  Beware the cable police who inhabit head-fi.  They will be only to happy to tell you that there is no difference in sound by changing wire.  I fall on the same side of this as you that it can make a significant difference if done right.  Silver, after all, is one of the best conductors known to man.


----------



## Lvivske

should i just go out and grab a first gen Marantz 2225, or one of the later 70s models


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> should i just go out and grab a first gen Marantz 2225, or one of the later 70s models


IMHO the earlier ones were better.


----------



## Geoduck

The Marantz 2225 sounded good. Buying one today will be expensive and need a rebuild.


----------



## Skylah

I've joined the club


----------



## elquixote

If anyone is interested in a Pioneer SA-8800 with the wood veneer and blue VU meters I will be selling mine. Ideally local pick up near Los Angeles.


----------



## SpeakerBox

60 year old Fisher 400 in the rotation today.


----------



## Lvivske

Go to meet this lady's husband to pick up the Marantz 2225 receiver, he's on lunch so I check it out while he's not there

Selector switch is full of glue. Doesn't turn at all and no idea if it's stuck on AM radio forever. I walked.

Question, is this salvageable? Would have to take it to a shop to get a new switch installed, new knobs maybe -possible where there's smoke there's fire and other issues...


----------



## tumpux

Everything can be salvaged. 
The question that you wanna ask is is it worth it?


----------



## Lvivske

tumpux said:


> Everything can be salvaged.
> The question that you wanna ask is is it worth it?



Well that was implied 😉

Honestly the more I think about the fact she lied about the condition makes me worried there's more problems inside...


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> Go to meet this lady's husband to pick up the Marantz 2225 receiver, he's on lunch so I check it out while he's not there
> 
> Selector switch is full of glue. Doesn't turn at all and no idea if it's stuck on AM radio forever. I walked.
> 
> Question, is this salvageable? Would have to take it to a shop to get a new switch installed, new knobs maybe -possible where there's smoke there's fire and other issues...


It is possible that the unit is in good condition but had a stripped selector switch.  It may only have glue on the shaft of the selector to make it usable.  I would want to listen to it before making a decision.


----------



## Lvivske

SpeakerBox said:


> It is possible that the unit is in good condition but had a stripped selector switch.  It may only have glue on the shaft of the selector to make it usable.  I would want to listen to it before making a decision.



The switch would not turn. I removed the knob and tried to rotate the shaft but it wouldn't budge....its a stuck one

replacement original switch is on ebay for $75 CAD total right now...(unless there are cheaper options out there)

plus labor...


----------



## SpeakerBox (Sep 14, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> The switch would not turn. I removed the knob and tried to rotate the shaft but it wouldn't budge....its a stuck one
> 
> replacement original switch is on ebay for $75 CAD total right now...(unless there are cheaper options out there)
> 
> plus labor...


Well I suspect with the selector knob properly attached it might turn.   Pretty hard to turn with fingers on the shaft.  Even my working units do that.  Did you try and turn with the knob on?  Of course if the knob is damaged that would fail also.


----------



## Lvivske

SpeakerBox said:


> Well I suspect with the selector knob properly attached it might turn.   Pretty hard to turn with fingers on the shaft.  Even my working units do that.  Did you try and turn with the knob on?  Of course if the knob is damaged that would fail also.



With the knob on it just spun 360 degrees, totally stripped

I yanked the knob off my Pioneer's speaker selector just to double check and could turn it with my fingers no problem (annoying, but doable). The one I saw today wouldnt budge and I was giving 'er my all. Maybe with plyers the leverage would be enough to crack it free, but it did seem to be totally glued in there to me at the time.

In the pics the glue ran down from the shaft so presumably into the switch itself, at least that's my working theory


----------



## tumpux

I wont buy a vintage unit if my first impression is like that. You only bring it home when it sparks when you first see it. Like, whoaa where have you been all my life spark.


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> 60 year old Fisher 400 in the rotation today.



Kenwood KA3300D in rotation today with LCD4.  I loose my Sansui au-alpha 907mr for this Kenwood and it's a pretty good change over.  LCD4 has not sounded better.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice gear @UntilThen !


----------



## UntilThen

SpeakerBox said:


> Nice gear @UntilThen !


Thank you. So is yours.


----------



## Lvivske (Oct 5, 2021)

I ended up snagging a Marantz 2225 after all in the classifieds. Guy had it listed lower and the pics looked rough. Ended up snagging it for over $100 less than the last one, with no big issues.

I will concede now that the selector switch on this with no knob is incredibly hard to turn with my hands

Volume knob seems a bit off axis, headphone jack loses contact sometimes, and its got some nicks on the top but I think after its cleaned up and relamped it will look great. Might even get an aftermarket black faceplate if the dings bother me too much. Considering getting it recapped now as well (repairs are gonna cost more than the unit itself lol)


----------



## BobG55 (Oct 5, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> I ended up snagging a Marantz 2225 after all in the classifieds. Guy had it listed lower and the pics looked rough. Ended up snagging it for over $100 less than the last one, with no big issues.
> 
> I will concede now that the selector switch on this with no knob is incredibly hard to turn with my hands
> 
> Volume knob seems a bit off axis, headphone jack loses contact sometimes, and its got some nicks on the top but I think after its cleaned up and relamped it will look great. Might even get an aftermarket black faceplate if the dings bother me too much. Considering getting it recapped now as well (repairs are gonna cost more than the unit itself lol)


Good luck, I hope the repairs work out for you.  My first serious investment into an hifi system was back in ‘79 & I bought the 2238b integrated amp receiver.  I owned it for a good ten years before selling it.


----------



## Lvivske

you guys know if its worth it to upgrade the headphone jack in these? or stick to stock/NOS?


----------



## buson160man

Lvivske said:


> Pioneer SA-7500 I'm restoring. Was my first real amp I got handed to me from my mom back when I was 18, so has some sentimental value to keep around. Trying to restore the wooden case so currently staining that but the veneer top is being an ass and I may end up scrapping it and keeping it just the black metal stock case, which at least is 95% mint outside of a small rust spot near the back, and matches all the other black/chrome gear. Need to fix the pots, a bit noisy.
> 
> It sounds amazing fwiw. I'm remembering now why I shelved my Schiit Valhalla and kept using this for headphones for several years. It's not articulate, but its got character and is really fun.
> 
> ...


Pretty looking nice.


----------



## Geoduck (Oct 9, 2021)

Lvivske said:


> I ended up snagging a Marantz 2225 after all in the classifieds. Guy had it listed lower and the pics looked rough. Ended up snagging it for over $100 less than the last one, with no big issues.
> 
> I will concede now that the selector switch on this with no knob is incredibly hard to turn with my hands
> 
> Volume knob seems a bit off axis, headphone jack loses contact sometimes, and its got some nicks on the top but I think after its cleaned up and relamped it will look great. Might even get an aftermarket black faceplate if the dings bother me too much. Considering getting it recapped now as well (repairs are gonna cost more than the unit itself lol)


If you don't mind let us know your thoughts after it's recapped and broken in?
My guess would be buy a new quality headphone jack unless they are crazy expensive. 
In my opinion the silver faceplate best matches the receiver not so keen on the black ones. But it's up to what best pleases you.


----------



## Lvivske

Geoduck said:


> If you don't mind let us know your thoughts after it's recapped and broken in?
> My guess would be buy a new quality headphone jack unless they are crazy expensive.
> In my opinion the silver faceplate best matches the receiver not so keen on the black ones. But it's up to what best pleases you.



guy i was talking to to do it stopped replying so many this wont be a 1 week project

will re-capping it help significantly? theres no noise or issues, sound just is kinda muddy (esp in the low end) and doesn't stand up to my other amps but its 'okay' overall

also i fixed the headphone jack so i'll be keeping it 

got the thing cleaned up and re-lit though, so here's an update pic:


----------



## Geoduck

It's absolutely necessary it's recapped it's a safety issue at this age. The "muddy sound" is likely to the signal capacitors degrading.


----------



## Lvivske

Geoduck said:


> It's absolutely necessary it's recapped it's a safety issue at this age. The "muddy sound" is likely to the signal capacitors degrading.



safety issue? *😳*


----------



## Geoduck

Yes, those caps are well past their expiration date. It's possible if a power supply electrolytic fails it could smoke something important or even catch fire.


----------



## atarione

safety smafety??? =p ...  I guess i should recap these old Pioneer receivers..but I am lazy and I don't want to... mainly my personal rule is to not leave these things on unattended.. however I have many vintage pieces and I have have never had one go poof let alone catch fire.. /touchwood   for me if it sounds ~good I'm rather inclined to leave it alone..    I'd be more worried about modern cheap electronics / audio gear going poof and catching fire than these 70s / 80s devices..   I've seen some brand new phone charges go "bang" and catch fire for example... and I had the power supply for a pc go poof and emit the magic smoke (no fire thank god).

Whatever... Here is my mid 70s Pioneer SX-450 that had been sitting unused for "awhile" now.. cleaned it up and gave it a listen going to rotate it onto my pc desk for awhile.. it isn't recapped like I said I just don't leave it on when I'm not there.. but again never had an issue thus far .. this little guy sounds pretty good it is only 15WPC but it does good as a pc desk amp..

anyway SX-450 made in Japan ~mid 70's pictured while cleaning it up and testing to see if it still works..it does...


----------



## atarione

And my SX-3600 that is on my desk now... this one is neat, I like the fluoroscan display a lot..


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> you guys know if its worth it to upgrade the headphone jack in these? or stick to stock/NOS?


I recommend watching the following video made by fellow Head-if member Monsterzero.  You’ll find the answers to most of your questions including your headphone jack one in this excellent video.


----------



## Lvivske

BobG55 said:


> I recommend watching the following video made by fellow Head-if member Monsterzero.  You’ll find the answers to most of your questions including your headphone jack one in this excellent video.




I dont think it answers questions (about part replacement) but it's still a great video


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> I dont think it answers questions (about part replacement) but it's still a great video


Ok, but, it does address the headphone jack upgrading question you had.


----------



## Lvivske

BobG55 said:


> Ok, but, it does address the headphone jack upgrading question you had.



actually it doesnt...unless you have a timestamp but i watched the whole thing


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> actually it doesnt...unless you have a timestamp but i watched the whole thing


At around 1:55


----------



## Lvivske

BobG55 said:


> At around 1:55



he just says vintage receivers are better for driving headphones than modern receivers, nothing about the _jack_...


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> he just says vintage receivers are better for driving headphones than modern receivers, nothing about the _jack_...


My point is why would you want to upgrade the headphone jack when it works the way it’s described in the video ?  Maybe I don’t fully understand what you mean by headphone jack.


----------



## kid vic

Lvivske said:


> you guys know if its worth it to upgrade the headphone jack in these? or stick to stock/NOS?


Chances are it won't make any sonic difference. By "chances" I mean your hearing would have to be much better than a dog's and better than most machines to hear the differences between two jacks. 
Now, if you plug headphones into a jack and one channel is dead, then yes, replacing the jack may be necessary (could be wiring though). 
I say this having owned like 5 different vintage amps plus several normal headphone amps.


----------



## HWB3

Isn't the reason that vintage receivers have a better headphone jack is because of the resistor that that lowers the power coming off of the amplifier?  I have an Emotiva BassX A-100 and that was one of the selling points of it. It harkens back to the 70's. Newer amps have a separate circuit for the headphone jack and that doesn't sound as good.


----------



## Lvivske

HWB3 said:


> Isn't the reason that vintage receivers have a better headphone jack is because of the resistor that that lowers the power coming off of the amplifier?  I have an Emotiva BassX A-100 and that was one of the selling points of it. It harkens back to the 70's. Newer amps have a separate circuit for the headphone jack and that doesn't sound as good.



Yes that's correct


----------



## khalder (Nov 11, 2021)

I too recently got an Emotiva BassX A-100. It sounds much better than other headphone amps I had earlier, including a relatively pricier one. But, when I listen off the headphone jack of my vintage Pioneer SX-980, it sounds much better than the Emotiva. Perhaps it has to do with the Pioneer amp being much beefier (WPC-wise). I had the same preamp (Freya+) feeding both the Emotiva and the Pioneer (the latter by its amp-in, as opposed to aux-in, thus bypassing its built-in preamp).


----------



## BobG55 (Nov 28, 2021)

khalder said:


> I too recently got an Emotiva BassX A-100. It sounds much better than other headphone amps I had earlier, including a relatively pricier one. But, when I listen off the headphone jack of my vintage Pioneer SX-980, it sounds much better than the Emotiva. Perhaps it has to do with the Pioneer amp being much beefier (WPC-wise). I had the same preamp (Freya+) feeding both the Emotiva and the Pioneer (the latter by its amp-in, as opposed to aux-in, thus bypassing its built-in preamp).


Hallelujah to your comment.  I no longer own an ”headphone amplifier”.  The vintage amplifier I use was given to me by my brother.  It’s a 1974 Kenwood KA-8006 integrated amp, 70wpc.  I was with him when he bought it brand new back in ‘74.  The sound is outstanding.  Like you, I also owned expensive headphone amplifiers and, like you, I find my vintage amp to be superior.

Some of the headphone amps I’ve owned : Headamp GS-X MKII, Eddie Current Zana Deux Super, Violectric HPA V281, Auralic Taurus MKII, SPL Phonitor 2, Woo WA6-SE 2nd gen. …

I‘m one to use the tone adjustment and filter switches on the amp along w/ a Schiit Lokius EQ & I get the best sound I’ve ever heard since I’ve been in this hobby.  Everybody’s different.  This setup accommodates all of my headphones regardless of ohm or sound signature.  A little EQ/ Tone/ Filter knobs adjustment here & there and superb sound 90% of the time.  The other 10% is due to poor production/ recording of the musical product which nothing can fix.

My money is now spent on new music and certain reasonably priced & interesting headphone which may come up.  I haven’t bought a headphone in quite a while.  Some of the ones I own I’ve owned for a long time & still love ‘em or owned at one time and bought them again.

Happy listening.

If you’re interested here’s an excellent YouTube video on vintage amps used for Headphone listening.  The video was made by a fellow Head-if member.  Very revealing and informative.


----------



## Lvivske

Right on dude. While I still love my dedicated headphone amps as my mains, the vintage receivers hold a place in my daily rotation and have certain strengths that I doubt most headphone amps can match just due to the horsepower imbalance. Upgrading my DAC for them recently to a Topping E50 has been a huge improvement that brought them from secondary options I'd toy around with to contenders.


----------



## MacMan31

What vintage receivers would be a good match for something like the Sennheiser 6 series or ZMF Aeolus? Also I am considering an HD800S.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 28, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> What vintage receivers would be a good match for something like the Sennheiser 6 series or ZMF Aeolus? Also I am considering an HD800S.


I suggest familiarizing yourself with the "house sound" of the various companies that built receivers and amps back then. Generally speaking, Marantz is said to be the warmest, Pioneer the brightest, with Sansui being in the middle. There are exceptions to that rule. The Sansui 5000a is, by far, the warmest receiver I've ever heard.

Of course, there are excellent receivers out there other than from the "Big Three". The Onkyo, Kenwood and Akai that I own are varying shades of brighter,relative to the 5000a. My McIntosh has the best bass. My Sansui 881 has the best mids. 

I would suggest something on the brighter side for the ZMFs and 6 series. I would suggest something warm and bass happy for the HD800.


----------



## MacMan31

Monsterzero said:


> I suggest familiarizing yourself with the "house sound" of the various companies that built receivers and amps back then. Generally speaking, Marantz is said to be the warmest, Pioneer the brightest, with Sansui being in the middle. There are exceptions to that rule. The Sansui 5000a is, by far, the warmest receiver I've ever heard.
> 
> Of course, there are excellent receivers out there other than from the "Big Three". The Onkyo, Kenwood and Akai that I own are varying shades of brighter,relative to the 5000a. My McIntosh has the best bass. My Sansui 881 has the best mids.
> 
> I would suggest something on the brighter side for the ZMFs and 6 series. I would suggest something warm and bass happy for the HD800.



What is the best way to familiarize myself with the sound of each brand? So if I were to splurge on the HD800S then a Marantz amp would be the best option?


----------



## Lvivske

I can see why Marantz is called warm and Pioneer bright and would also suggest Marantz for the Sennheiser. While I prefer the performance on the Pioneer, it needs a separate EQ to get it where I like (on board tone controls arent enough), and the Marantz I have has 3 tone controls that do the job just as well. It's warmer, and with a lower end DAC can sound muddier, but its very enjoyable with my HD800.


----------



## Monsterzero

MacMan31 said:


> What is the best way to familiarize myself with the sound of each brand? So if I were to splurge on the HD800S then a Marantz amp would be the best option?


This website is a fantastic resource for all things vintage audio. When you find a receiver that interests you, look that model up on AK, read the various threads on that receiver, and go from there. 

In theory, a Marantz makes sense for the HD800. The ZMF, not so much. All receivers have built-in tone control for the lows and highs, with higher end models throwing in the ability to adjust the mids as well. With that you can make adjustments depending upon your chain and preferences. 

A happy medium might be a Sansui, or perhaps a McIntosh, but they ain't cheap.


----------



## Lvivske

Monsterzero said:


> A happy medium might be a McIntosh, but they ain't cheap.



That's putting it lightly


----------



## MacMan31

Monsterzero said:


> This website is a fantastic resource for all things vintage audio. When you find a receiver that interests you, look that model up on AK, read the various threads on that receiver, and go from there.
> 
> In theory, a Marantz makes sense for the HD800. The ZMF, not so much. All receivers have built-in tone control for the lows and highs, with higher end models throwing in the ability to adjust the mids as well. With that you can make adjustments depending upon your chain and preferences.
> 
> A happy medium might be a Sansui, or perhaps a McIntosh, but they ain't cheap.



Okay cool. Thank you. Right now I am using Schiit gear. But I have long had a thing for the look and style of vintage gear. I know sound should be most important but appearance can also be a factor as it will be looked at and used regularly.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 28, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> I have long had a thing for the look and style of vintage gear. I know sound should be most important but appearance can also be a factor as it will be looked at and used regularly.


I can relate to that. A few years ago I lusted after a Kenwood Eleven GX, based upon looks alone. IMHO its one of the very best looking receivers ever made. Despite reading some less than stellar comments about its sonic ability, I finally landed one.

As big as an aircraft carrier, its relative light weight compared to other receivers of the same era revealed that despite it's size, much of it was empty space.
Despite being rated at a monster 120wpc, it gets smoked by many of my other receivers, all ofr which have a lower wattage.

A classic case of a pretty face that lacks soul.

edit: not my actual amp. Dont stack gear on the top. Heresy!


----------



## Geoduck

Vintage gear often has a warm sound in a good way. 
For HD600 or HD800S try a Fisher 500C receiver or an old vintage McIntosh stack. That gear has been rebuilt and sounds like new.


The hidden headphone amp is a one-of made by a friend of mine Gary Dahl. 
Here is a link to it when Gary and Lynn Olson had an active web page;
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/gary/index.html


----------



## khalder

If I may add, unless one is after the unique aesthetic appeal of receiver amps, one is likely to get better performance from integrated amps than from mid-range receiver amps. That has been my experience based on trying out both types of amps of several prominent brands. Also, integrated amps generally have extra features (and they tend to be better built inside, or so I've been told by vintage veterans).


----------



## Lvivske

hmm, so wheeling back to the topic of headphone outputs (not jacks!), is my 1976 Marantz nerfed with an opamp? Stumbled on to this thread on ak of a guy modding his 2275's opamp

Marantz 2275 Opamp Mod | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

if so, how far back do we have to go to get direct power, or are mods a path to go? (either upgrading the opamp or cutting it out of the circuit)


----------



## MacMan31

These are some of the local options I was considering for a vintage amp for both headphones and speakers. Which would you choose? Or what other models would you suggest? 

Also the Sony (for example) has screw speaker terminals like this. https://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/misc/sonySTR6055r.jpg  What is the best way to connect the speakers wire?


----------



## Monsterzero

MacMan31 said:


> Or what other models would you suggest?


Whats you're budget, lol.....You can spend a fortune on some the monsters out there.

For not too much $, my favorite is the Sansui 881. It was the TOTL Sansui back in the day. It has glorious mids, nice bass and a warm, rich 70s sound.


----------



## MacMan31

Monsterzero said:


> Whats you're budget, lol.....You can spend a fortune on some the monsters out there.
> 
> For not too much $, my favorite is the Sansui 881. It was the TOTL Sansui back in the day. It has glorious mids, nice bass and a warm, rich 70s sound.



I know I can spend a ton of money on an amazing amp. If I can keep it under $500 (Canadian) that would be great. But i can stretch it too $1K if need be. I saw a Sansui 661 locally but perhaps that's not as good as the 881. I keep an eye out here https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/56-solid-state-integrated-amplifiers/ but I'm not sure what are good models to look out for. Those ones I mentioned are local on FB Marketplace.


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 23, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> I know I can spend a ton of money on an amazing amp. If I can keep it under $500 (Canadian) that would be great. But i can stretch it too $1K if need be. I saw a Sansui 661 locally but perhaps that's not as good as the 881. I keep an eye out here https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/classifieds/56-solid-state-integrated-amplifiers/ but I'm not sure what are good models to look out for. Those ones I mentioned are local on FB Marketplace.


The 661 and 771 were the entry and mid level brothers to the 881. They both have less wattage than the 881, as well not having a dedicated midrange eq knob. There might be other differences, but im not sure.

Personally, I'd stick with the Big 3, Marantz, Pioneer or Sansui. I do own some nice sounding receivers from McIntosh ($$$), Onkyo and Akai as well.

A few other rules of thumb I use when choosing a vintage piece:

stay away from digital meters

stay away from "quad" amps or receivers. Most techs won't work on them


make sure your tech will work on any given piece of gear before you buy it, and also make sure that the parts for said receiver are not unobtanium.


----------



## khalder

Buy local if possible to be able to not only see/audition it but, most importantly, to avoid the risk of damage inherent in shipping heavy electronic equipment in general and old ones like these, in particular. No matter of packaging can eliminate that risk. It's not just the seller's problem. If damaged, the return will most likely be at the buyer's expense. Not to mention all the agony due to the damage and the hassle in return. And if it's subtle damage that manifests after a reasonable return period, the buyer would be stuck with it. If you're in a small town with little supply of such gear, consider other areas nearby, meeting the seller halfway if possible.


----------



## MacMan31

Monsterzero said:


> The 661 and 771 were the entry and mid level brothers to the 881. They both have less wattage than the 881, as well not having a dedicated midrange eq knob. There might be other differences, but im not sure.
> 
> Personally, I'd stick with the Big 3, Marantz, Pioneer or Sansui. I do own some nice sounding receivers from McIntosh ($$$), Onkyo and Akai as well.
> 
> ...



What is the issue with digital meters? I have always thought VU meters were a really neat visual. 

By "your tech" I assume you mean any local audio shops which deal with vintage gear. 

Of the ones I mentioned above which would you pick?


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 24, 2021)

MacMan31 said:


> What is the issue with digital meters? I have always thought VU meters were a really neat visual.


Analog or Death! In all seriousness, when digital came along, was the beginning of the end of the Wattage Wars aka the golden age of stereos.
In reality there's is little wrong with digital meters themselves, but I personally use the analog meters as a sign of being designed when home stereos were killer sounding.


MacMan31 said:


> By "your tech" I assume you mean any local audio shops which deal with vintage gear.


Yes.


MacMan31 said:


> Of the ones I mentioned above which would you pick?


Personally I'd go with the Sony STR-6055, but you'd probably get different opinions from other members. It gets a lot of favorable opinions over on AK as well.


----------



## Lvivske

MacMan31 said:


> These are some of the local options I was considering for a vintage amp for both headphones and speakers. Which would you choose? Or what other models would you suggest?
> 
> Also the Sony (for example) has screw speaker terminals like this. https://www.classicaudio.com/forsale/misc/sonySTR6055r.jpg  What is the best way to connect the speakers wire?



I like the Marantz 2220 but not for the price in the screenshot, next I like the Pioneer QL (not sure how it sounds, but its early 70s and had four analog VU meters on it so thats pretty nice). Rest aren't standing out to me.


----------



## Monsterzero

Lvivske said:


> I like the Marantz 2220 but not for the price


I have the Marantz 2226b, which has more power than the 2220, and frankly it is my least favorite of all my receivers. The price is also known as The Marantz Tax. 


Lvivske said:


> Pioneer QL


Its a quad and only 10wpc. Avoid!!!!


----------



## MacMan31

Monsterzero said:


> Analog or Death! In all seriousness, when digital came along, was the beginning of the end of the Wattage Wars aka the golden age of stereos.
> In reality there's is little wrong with digital meters themselves, but I personally use the analog meters as a sign of being designed when home stereos were killer sounding.
> 
> Yes.
> ...



Okay so perhaps a dumb question but how can I tell if it's a digital meter? 

In another thread I had started someone there suggested the Sony also. The "downside" is that it has screw looking speaker terminals. I'm not familiar with how to connect the speaker wire to those. 



Lvivske said:


> I like the Marantz 2220 but not for the price in the screenshot, next I like the Pioneer QL (not sure how it sounds, but its early 70s and had four analog VU meters on it so thats pretty nice). Rest aren't standing out to me.



Well the Marantz 2220 also includes speaker.  I could check if they will sell me just the amp. yeah the Pioneer QL does look pretty sweet.


----------



## Monsterzero

MacMan31 said:


> Okay so perhaps a dumb question but how can I tell if it's a digital meter?
> 
> In another thread I had started someone there suggested the Sony also. The "downside" is that it has screw looking speaker terminals. I'm not familiar with how to connect the speaker wire to those.




<<<<<<digital



<<<<<<<not digital

So with the screws, all you have to do is twist the tip,of your speaker cable and form a hook shape with it. Place it inn between the head of the screw and the rear of the receiver, and tighten the screw. Pretty crude, but it works.


----------



## Lvivske

Monsterzero said:


> I have the Marantz 2226b, which has more power than the 2220, and frankly it is my least favorite of all my receivers. The price is also known as The Marantz Tax.
> 
> Its a quad and only 10wpc. Avoid!!!!



Well I guess I chose poorly! (I was going off cool factor, sue me)

As a '25 owner, if the '20 is similar, I think its a good pick if the price was right, but at 700 for the combo I dont have high hopes from the seller


----------



## UntilThen

I think I'm falling in love with vintage amps again. These headphones are absolutely a treat, driven by the Kenwood ka-3300d.


----------



## OldRoadToad

While not a vintage receiver...I am getting my vintage Dual 1246 fixed up.  It is an automatic model and that feature no longer works so I am getting it repaired.  I like listening to records and a vintage receiver needs a vintage turntable.  I will pair mine with my Sony or Perhaps the Pioneer.  It will be out getting refitted until mid to late February of the coming year.  I look forward to having back in my line up!

I trust all are well here and enjoying the music.

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

Ah yes vintage TT.


----------



## OldRoadToad

UntilThen said:


> Ah yes vintage TT.


Beautiful!

I was speaking with my brother last night and we both wondered why manufacturers do NOT make new receivers, even AV models in the style of 70s receivers.  The same is true of turntables.  I have a Pro-Ject Essential III Sgt. Pepper model which is beautiful in its own way but  not  as attractive to my memory  as the Dual 1246.  And I happen to think automatic is pretty swell too!  I do NOT think it "degrades" the sound nor the experience of playing a record.  I have Denon DP-300F that is fully auto and I like it just fine and use it more than I do my Pro-Ject.  I have a Direct Drive Auto that I need to get out and clean up and put to use.    The convenience of a fully automatic  just allows me to make more use of my records.

And maybe I am just lazy!  LOL!  I would consider a new AVR from Denon (my preferred make for home theater) if they would make one that looked vintage but with the necessary features of today's models.  Same with a turntable.  And no, I will not pay through the nose for good looks.  Class need not be over priced.  Usurious pricing pisseth me off... 

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

OldRoadToad said:


> Beautiful!
> 
> I was speaking with my brother last night and we both wondered why manufacturers do NOT make new receivers, even AV models in the style of 70s receivers.  The same is true of turntables.  I have a Pro-Ject Essential III Sgt. Pepper model which is beautiful in its own way but  not  as attractive to my memory  as the Dual 1246.  And I happen to think automatic is pretty swell too!  I do NOT think it "degrades" the sound nor the experience of playing a record.  I have Denon DP-300F that is fully auto and I like it just fine and use it more than I do my Pro-Ject.  I have a Direct Drive Auto that I need to get out and clean up and put to use.    The convenience of a fully automatic  just allows me to make more use of my records.
> 
> ...



I didn't think I will have 3 turntables. My wife gave me the Denon DP-300f and I had a Ortofon 3M Blue installed in it. Then I bought the Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge. The vintage Denon Dp-47f is the latest acquisition. It's a Japanese model so I need a step down transformer. I love this vintage Denon though and spend most time with it now. 

The Denon DP-300f


----------



## OldRoadToad (Dec 30, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> I didn't think I will have 3 turntables. My wife gave me the Denon DP-300f and I had a Ortofon 3M Blue installed in it. Then I bought the Rega RP8 with Apheta cartridge. The vintage Denon Dp-47f is the latest acquisition. It's a Japanese model so I need a step down transformer. I love this vintage Denon though and spend most time with it now.
> 
> The Denon DP-300f


I have been considering that cartridge or the 2M Red (?) for my Denon 300.  Red being my SECOND (!) favourite colour and me being a toad of very little brain...We shall see, brother! I am not certain yet what I will have installed on the Dual but so long as it looks cool, retro and plays well  I shall be both satisfied and grateful.   Beautiful setups you have. Well done!

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

OldRoadToad said:


> I have been considering that cartridge or the 2M Red (?) for my Denon 300.  Red being my SECOND (!) favourite colour and me being a toad of very little brain...We shall see, brother! I am not certain yet what I will have installed on the Dual but so long as it looks cool, retro and plays well  I shall be both satisfied and grateful.   Beautiful setups you have. Well done!
> 
> ORT



At some point in my audio journey, I've gone in excess or INXS.   

This should have been good enough and I should be using it daily and yet it's sitting in the lounge untouched. This is the turntable setup I regard as more resolving than Yggdrasil.


----------



## OldRoadToad

UntilThen said:


> At some point in my audio journey, I've gone in excess or INXS.
> 
> This should have been good enough and I should be using it daily and yet it's sitting in the lounge untouched. This is the turntable setup I regard as more resolving than Yggdrasil.


In a word...Stunning!

Thank you!

ORT


----------



## OldRoadToad

I have found my Technics SL-QD33 and have begun cleaning it up.  It is a direct drive automatic.  The cartridge is a P-Mount style so even some one such as I could replace it with ease.  It has sat for several years.  Kinda like me.  I hope it works as it did prior to my putting it away. I have ordered a new cartridge and belt for my Denon DP-300F.   If all I have to do is clean the Technics and maybe replace/upgrade the cartridge I shall be very happy indeed!

This can go with..Maybe the Kenwood.  My memory fails me but I know I have vintage receivers from Sony (dual phono inputs),  Pioneer and Kenwood.  

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

OldRoadToad said:


> My memory fails me but I know I have vintage receivers from Sony (dual phono inputs), Pioneer and Kenwood.



Waiting to see what you will uncover from your attic !


----------



## Lvivske (Jan 4, 2022)

Got my Pioneer recapped and re-lit. Sounds good so far, but unfortunately the noise and channel imbalance (below 12'oclock volume) wasn't fixed. Still, at least 2 things were taken care of.

(there was also a very scary issue at first with the tone control, when on it made loud squeals and went crazy. Not sure if it was a ground issue or some caps needing to settle down. edit: it was EMI, i think the cover was ajar)

update: recapping was a very *significant* improvement, especially in the bass. Normally I have bass max on my Loki EQ and 2 on the pioneer bass Tone controll (400hz) to give it some punch. That's about the max I can get it while both sounding good and not causing my headphones to crack. I'm sure I can find a track to push it too far, but right now I just put the Tone up to 10 and it just increased the bass without making it muddy or cracking.....just adding good non-distorted bass like my headphones have no limit. Incredible. Also, more evidence that tone controls are objectively better than any software EQ package.

updater: ...and I can actually bypass the Loki EQ entirely, amp sounds good on its own like the Marantz. It always had great qualities but also faults that needed an EQ to hammer out, but now it's just good...

update3: As I was typing that a bass heavy electronic track came on and nearly blew my head off, forcing me to lung for the power switch while typing, so, caution still needs to be exercised...


----------



## OldRoadToad

Lvivske said:


> Got my Pioneer recapped and re-lit. Sounds good so far, but unfortunately the noise and channel imbalance (below 12'oclock volume) wasn't fixed. Still, at least 2 things were taken care of.
> 
> (there was also a very scary issue at first with the tone control, when on it made loud squeals and went crazy. Not sure if it was a ground issue or some caps needing to settle down.)
> 
> ...


If I may ask, was this a relatively expensive upgrade?  If I can afford to do so, I may well have it done to my Sony Or Pioneer!  Thanks!  I am going to have to learn how to put a photo on here...

ORT


----------



## sacguy231

For headphone listening I generally listen through newer dedicated headphone amps, but sometimes find older gear with fantastic headphone outputs. I have a NAD preamp that still impresses me with the headphone section, and my beast Kenwood KA-907 does well with higher impedance cans in particular, and can drive anything. It also has the best volume knob I've ever used.


----------



## MacMan31

sacguy231 said:


> For headphone listening I generally listen through newer dedicated headphone amps, but sometimes find older gear with fantastic headphone outputs. I have a NAD preamp that still impresses me with the headphone section, and my beast Kenwood KA-907 does well with higher impedance cans in particular, and can drive anything. It also has the best volume knob I've ever used.



Nice gear rack. Seems like one of those Kenwood amps is up for sale on CAM. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649811662-kenwood-ka9077-integrated-amplifier/ 

Yes perhaps true that a dedicated headphone amp nowadays is better than using a stereo amp. Perhaps it's better to have separate components compared to an all in one box.


----------



## OldRoadToad

MacMan31 said:


> Nice gear rack. Seems like one of those Kenwood amps is up for sale on CAM. https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649811662-kenwood-ka9077-integrated-amplifier/
> 
> Yes perhaps true that a dedicated headphone amp nowadays is better than using a stereo amp. Perhaps it's better to have separate components compared to an all in one box.


The vintage stuff was built back when the headphone jack was USED for headphones!  Think Rob Schneider's "Townie". in The Waterboy..."You can DOOOO it!"

Besides vintage rocks the look like nothing made today.  Unless of course, it's copying vintage.   I was around when this stuff was new.  I have memories attached to equipment and music that will be with me for eternity.  No cell phone or modern headphone amp can compete with that, gentlemen!

Yeah... I am olde, LOL!

ORT


----------



## UntilThen

OldRoadToad said:


> The vintage stuff was built back when the headphone jack was USED for headphones!  Think Rob Schneider's "Townie". in The Waterboy..."You can DOOOO it!"
> 
> Besides vintage rocks the look like nothing made today.  Unless of course, it's copying vintage.   I was around when this stuff was new.  I have memories attached to equipment and music that will be with me for eternity.  No cell phone or modern headphone amp can compete with that, gentlemen!
> 
> ...



I agree with you ORT. I think I have been through sufficient modern tube and ss amps. The vintage amps that I've used with my headphones are on par with the best. Which is why many are marvelling when they try their headphones with a good stereo amp. 

I do have 2 old school design modern tube amps that are point to point wiring using the SET topology and NOS tubes. These are the ones I find more enjoyable (and only just) than a great vintage amp like the Sansui 907mr or the Pioneer SX-1080.


----------



## Lvivske

OldRoadToad said:


> If I may ask, was this a relatively expensive upgrade?  If I can afford to do so, I may well have it done to my Sony Or Pioneer!  Thanks!  I am going to have to learn how to put a photo on here...
> 
> ORT



I got lucky and the guy who did it cut me a deal, felt like most shops I talked to prior were quoting ~$350 (CAD)

alas, ends up I forgot to give him a bunch of caps so I'm going to have to bring it back to finish the job. Hopefully it sounds even better lol.


Side note: I know I think my Marantz sounds fine as is, but it's clearly got some leaking caps on the main board that have to be messing with the sound in a bad way. Yikes.


----------



## BobG55 (Jan 5, 2022)

OldRoadToad said:


> The vintage stuff was built back when the headphone jack was USED for headphones!  Think Rob Schneider's "Townie". in The Waterboy..."You can DOOOO it!"
> 
> Besides vintage rocks the look like nothing made today.  Unless of course, it's copying vintage.   I was around when this stuff was new.  I have memories attached to equipment and music that will be with me for eternity.  No cell phone or modern headphone amp can compete with that, gentlemen!
> 
> ...


I own a Kenwood KA-8006, (1974) which is all I use to listen to my headphones with.  My brother offered it to me some twelve years ago or so & I was elated.  I was with my brother when he bought it brand new back in ‘74.

I’m olde II 😁


----------



## Lvivske

A whole generation just doesn't get it


----------



## UntilThen

BobG55 said:


> I’m olde II 😁



Oldies from Muskogee.


----------



## BobG55

More, about my vintage Kenwood KA-8006 : my brother also bought the KT-8007 Solid State Stereo Tuner (It needs to be serviced and is in a box in my basement).  I have both the instruction manuals & warranty pamphlets in mint condition.  I also have a folded brochure of other Kenwood products of the time.  I’ll include all in the following photos :


----------



## UntilThen

A nice unit with a respectable 70w per channel into 8 ohms, Bob. Get it to the professionals for a proper service. The internals looks good.


----------



## Lvivske

Anyone here have an opinion on if its worthwhile to replace the stock resistors that the headphone jack is attached to, with something more audiophile?


----------



## OldRoadToad

Lvivske said:


> Anyone here have an opinion on if its worthwhile to replace the stock resistors that the headphone jack is attached to, with something more audiophile?


I would say that unless they are crumbly with age or other wise damaged, leave them be!  Of course, if they were out in the open and one could gaze upon the new ones in pride, then the coolness factor goes through the roof and yes, do it!  But I bet they are not...Dammit!  

ORT


----------



## iliketowrap19

Might be a dumb question but if you're running something off speaker taps, does the dac really make a big difference?

I have the He-6 (6 screw), He6Se and He-500 that I run through a Sansui G-4500 and I use an Audio GD-NFB-11 as my DAC.

I also have a Beyer 1990 and 770 that I also like listening to

Lets say that I have $500-1200 to spend. (Can bump it up to 1700 if that would make a major difference) What would be the best thing for my budget to get the best bang for my buck for all my headphones?

Should I upgrade to a better receiver? Get a dedicated DAC or both?

recommendations would be nice as well. Theres too much info and too much gear out there that I don't know where to even begin.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 5, 2022)

iliketowrap19 said:


> Might be a dumb question but if you're running something off speaker taps, does the dac really make a big difference?


of course a DAC will make a difference. Why would it not?


iliketowrap19 said:


> Lets say that I have $500-1200 to spend. (Can bump it up to 1700 if that would make a major difference)


Allow me to preface what Im about to say by admitting I have not heard every DAC out there, but based upon the various DACs I have owned over the years, your budget is kinda no-mans land when it comes to hearing a significant difference over lesser priced DACs.

Further, a great DAC will offer you blacker background, better imaging/seperation and wider/deeper/higher staging. I used to own both the original 6 screw HE6 as well as the HE500. Neither of those headphones, IMHO, excel at staging, so I dont think that a DAC, at that price point is going to make a significant difference with your gear.

If you were rocking, for example, a HD800 or ZMF Verite, both of which excel at staging, my opinion would be different.

EDIT:

What is it about your current setup do you feel needs to be improved? Knowing that info might help us giving you suggestions on how to spend your cash effectively.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> of course a DAC will make a difference. Why would it not?
> 
> Allow me to preface what Im about to say by admitting I have not heard every DAC out there, but based upon the various DACs I have owned over the years, your budget is kinda no-mans land when it comes to hearing a significant difference over lesser priced DACs.
> 
> ...



I suppose a significant difference would be a bad phrase. The better question would be if I would get a noticeable difference in performance if I upgraded to a dedicated DAC. This wouldn't just be for the Hifiman headphones. But also for the Beyerdynamics which I really enjoy. I understand that owning old HIfiman products leaves you in a mire since finding good equipment for it is much more difficult than other headphones but I love their sound. Though, I haven't tried many other headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 5, 2022)

iliketowrap19 said:


> I suppose a significant difference would be a bad phrase. The better question would be if I would get a noticeable difference in performance if I upgraded to a dedicated DAC. This wouldn't just be for the Hifiman headphones. But also for the Beyerdynamics which I really enjoy. I understand that owning old HIfiman products leaves you in a mire since finding good equipment for it is much more difficult than other headphones but I love their sound. Though, I haven't tried many other headphones.


I edited my previous response, but I will ask again here:

What is it about your current gear do feel isnt working well for you?

IMHO, in order of impact on sound, it goes:

1-headphones
2-amp
3-DAC
4-quality of electricity
5-cables

If using a tube amp, I'd wedge NOS tubes into the #4 spot

So, you will notice the most difference with a new set of headphones


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> I edited my previous response, but I will ask again here:
> 
> What is it about your current gear do feel isnt working well for you?


I like the current setup but, I don't have any other experience when it comes to DACs. The r2r is my first and only DAC but it's a combo. 

You gave me directions on setting up the first receiver I bought (Technics Sa-5760) before I sold it to get something less space consuming in the Sansui. 

Overall I liked the sound of the Technics more even though I also enjoy the sound of the Sansui. I'm perfectly fine with the Sansui if push came to shove but want suggestions / tips on which if I should upgrade the DAC or stick with the r2r and get a different amp source.


----------



## iliketowrap19 (Jan 5, 2022)

Monsterzero said:


> I edited my previous response, but I will ask again here:
> 
> What is it about your current gear do feel isnt working well for you?
> 
> ...



The ZMF's are a bit out of my range though I'm not sure I could do them justice with my current DAC even if I expanded my price range to cover it.

One pair of cans I've been wanting to get are the fostexs th900 but I think that the Hifiman's cover bass enough where I wouldn't need it and I've previously owned a Th600.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 6, 2022)

I like the R2R-11 for the price. The amp section in that unit is suprisingly good. That unit, however, is quite warm sounding, which would work well with your Beyers and HE6, all 3 of which have a bit of some zip in the treble region. The bass is strong, but the staging is nothing to write home about TBH. I would imagine that with the R2R-11 and HE6 combo, the staging is as small as it gets. But, is staging important to you?

Personally, I'd look into perhaps saving some, and grabbing the newest version of the Schiit Yggy, which would give you an end game DAC to build around. There are certainly other great DACs out there, but in the headphone hobby, Schiit has great name recognition, and hold their resale value pretty well, if for whatever reason you decide to move on from it down the line.

If you're wanting a small-ish form factor new receiver, the McIntosh 4100 is a great sounding receiver, with absurd bass, and adjustable loudness control. How big it is in relation to your Sansui, I have no clue.


iliketowrap19 said:


> The ZMF's are a bit out of my range though I'm not sure I could do them justice with my current DAC even if I expanded my price range to cover it.
> 
> One pair of cans I've been wanting to get are the fostexs th900 but I think that the Hifiman's cover base enough where I wouldn't need it and I've previously owned a Th600.


Well, if youre going to continue using your receivers as a defacto headphone amp, youre pretty much needing to stick to high impedance headphones, which both the HD800 and ZMFs are, the Fostex isnt. You could keep using the amp section of the R2R-11 for low impedance headphones, but then you will need to add RCA switchers, or vampire adapters in order to run multiple amps out from your new DAC, if that's the direction you go in.

There is also the HD820, which I havent heard, but have it incoming for a review. There is also the ZMF Atticus, but again, staging isnt huge, but its a great sounding headphone, especially for rock and metal. It most closely sounds similar to your HE500.

The ZMF Auteur has fantastic mids, and is brighter than both the Atticus and Verite. It is currently the most neutrally tuned headphone in ZMFs stable.

Other than ZMF and a few Sennheisers, Beyers and vintage AKGs, there arent too many other high impedance headphones out there.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> I like the R2R-11 for the price. The amp section in that unit is suprisingly good. That unit, however, is quite warm sounding, which would work well with your Beyers and HE6, all 3 of which have a bit of some zip in the treble region. The bass is strong, but the staging is nothing to write home about TBH. I would imagine that with the R2R-11 and HE6 combo, the staging is as small as it gets. But, is staging important to you?
> 
> Personally, I'd look into perhaps saving some, and grabbing the newest version of the Schiit Yggy, which would give you an end game DAC to build around. There are certainly other great DACs out there, but in the headphone hobby, Schiit has great name recognition, and hold their resale value pretty well, if for whatever reason you decide to move on from it down the line.
> 
> ...


I've moved into a new place for professional school and will be there for the next 5 years so form factor isn't a deal breaker anymore. 

I listen to a lot of music where the quality of the sound stage doesn't make a huge to difference to me. I really like bass, and female vocals when im not listening to rap and hip hop.

I can expand my budget up to a max of 2500 but after that point it's pretty rigid. I started with my original $500 because it seems like a good starting range. 

So 500-2500 would be my final range. And I've actually been looking into the Yggdrassil in the past few days (mostly youtube vids) but I'm not sure which version of it most users swear by. 

Ideally, I would buy these things new from the manufacturer (with the exception of the vintage stuff) so I could make a return if im not satisfied but I would be willing to buy them used if im 90% certain that I'm going to stick with it for some years. 

In my position, what would you do with the budget. The Yggdrassil, A new vintage amp/receiver or go for a new set of headphones. I've considered the Ygdrassil or Gungir more extensively than anything else at the moment.

Also I want to thank you for your detailed and patient responses like always.


----------



## UntilThen

Go Yggdrasil and never look back. Had mine since 2017. 😀


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> I listen to a lot of music where the quality of the sound stage doesn't make a huge to difference to me. I really like bass, and female vocals when im not listening to rap and hip hop.


Got it. Bass is pretty much non-negotiable for most of us. Female vocals tend to exist in the mids and upper mids. I felt that the HE500 had the best mids of the headphones you own. In my system, when I owned them, the mids were quite creamy and flowing on the HE500.



iliketowrap19 said:


> So 500-2500 would be my final range. And I've actually been looking into the Yggdrassil in the past few days (mostly youtube vids) but I'm not sure which version of it most users swear by.
> 
> Ideally, I would buy these things new from the manufacturer (with the exception of the vintage stuff) so I could make a return if im not satisfied but I would be willing to buy them used if im 90% certain that I'm going to stick with it for some years.


I know Dave Hanson, a reviewer of whom I respect, and helped me quite a bit when I first started out in the hobby, loves the 2nd gen Yggy. I do not know if you can still get the 2nd gen new from Schiit or not. I have not heard the newest version of it.

A good DAC is the backbone of your system, and will remain relevant regardless of whether you use receivers, amps, low Z headphones, Hi Z headphones, planar headphones, speakers...a good DAC will sound good on all of those things.

A black background, which will be the first thing you notice when going from the R2R-11 to the Yggy, will greatly improve both your micro and macro detail, simply by lowering the noise floor. Imaging, seperation, detail retreival and yes, staging will be greatly improved. The bass is a given.


iliketowrap19 said:


> In my position, what would you do with the budget. The Yggdrassil, A new vintage amp/receiver or go for a new set of headphones. I've considered the Ygdrassil or Gungir more extensively than anything else at the moment.


I havent heard your Sansui amp, so since its an unknown for me, I cant tell you that a McIntosh 4100, or a Sansui Eight Deluxe will give you a better bang for your buck than a good DAC will. It might be a very nice improvement. It might be nothing more than a costly sidegrade, which would be a bummer. Also, consider what a PITA it is to pack and safely ship a vintage receiver. You drop a grand on a new receiver, only to find its only marginally better than your Sansui. Then what? Ship it across country, only to find out UPS played bocce ball with it, and it arrives damaged to the buyer. Ughhhhh.

With the Yggy, its easy to sell, pack and move on if it doesnt float your boat.  

If you're not really feeling a new DAC is the ticket, then I would nudge you in the direction of a ZMF headphone. Like Schiit, ZMFs hold their resale value real well, and sound great out of vintage receivers, but use the HP jack and not the taps. They have a high sensitivity, and taps will blow the drivers. 


iliketowrap19 said:


> Also I want to thank you for your detailed and patient responses like always.


You're welcome.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Got it. Bass is pretty much non-negotiable for most of us. Female vocals tend to exist in the mids and upper mids. I felt that the HE500 had the best mids of the headphones you own. In my system, when I owned them, the mids were quite creamy and flowing on the HE500.
> 
> 
> I know Dave Hanson, a reviewer of whom I respect, and helped me quite a bit when I first started out in the hobby, loves the 2nd gen Yggy. I do not know if you can still get the 2nd gen new from Schiit or not. I have not heard the newest version of it.
> ...


Thanks a bunch for the response. I have 5 headphones, and a good amp source so I'll likely look into a DAC since it seems to be the one part of my setup lagging behind the most. Apart from the Yggy, do you have any other DAC recommendations in my given price range that I can also research?


----------



## Monsterzero (Jan 6, 2022)

iliketowrap19 said:


> do you have any other DAC recommendations in my given price range that I can also research?


Holo makes some good sounding DACs, as does Denafrips. The last time I looked into Denafrips they had recently lost their USA rep and service, and buyers were having to return units to Singapore for service, so thats something to consider and look into.

Lampizator makes amazing sounding DACs, but their entry level DAC, the Amber 3 is above your budget. I have their Atlantic TRP DAC, and its insanely good. They have a new flagship DAC coming out that looks amazing, but i think it starts at 45k euro!

EDIT:

Audio GD (company that makes your R2R-11) makes good sounding DACs, even though they measure not so great. Other than Schiit, theyre probably going to be your best bang for the buck DAC.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Holo makes some good sounding DACs, as does Denafrips. The last time I looked into Denafrips they had recently lost their USA rep and service, and buyers were having to return units to Singapore for service, so thats something to consider and look into.
> 
> Lampizator makes amazing sounding DACs, but their entry level DAC, the Amber 3 is above your budget. I have their Atlantic TRP DAC, and its insanely good. They have a new flagship DAC coming out that looks amazing, but i think it starts at *45k euro!*









Schiit it is then.


----------



## Monsterzero

iliketowrap19 said:


> Schiit it is then.


Drop a message to @Gopher . He is the N. American rep for Lampizator. They do a trade up program, and he might have a used Amber 3 available.


----------



## iliketowrap19

Monsterzero said:


> Drop a message to @Gopher . He is the N. American rep for Lampizator. They do a trade up program, and he might have a used Amber 3 available.


Thank you. Dropped him a message.


----------



## Lvivske

iliketowrap19 said:


> Thanks a bunch for the response. I have 5 headphones, and a good amp source so I'll likely look into a DAC since it seems to be the one part of my setup lagging behind the most. Apart from the Yggy, do you have any other DAC recommendations in my given price range that I can also research?



in fairness, your price range pretty much covers every dac there is


----------



## MacMan31

iliketowrap19 said:


> Thanks a bunch for the response. I have 5 headphones, and a good amp source so I'll likely look into a DAC since it seems to be the one part of my setup lagging behind the most. Apart from the Yggy, do you have any other DAC recommendations in my given price range that I can also research?



I have a Schiit Bifrost II and it's quite good. I have thought of switching to a Denafrips Ares II if I can find one used. But they go fast on the used market. Either way I can't see the need to go any higher for a DAC.


----------



## Lvivske

I think the Topping E50 is a good poor-man's Bifrost 2, call me crazy

Not really sure what $1k+ dac I'd want to upgrade to at this point, and too skeptical to just splurge on a few for the name and cross my fingers its not just hype


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> I think the Topping E50 is a good poor-man's Bifrost 2, call me crazy
> 
> Not really sure what $1k+ dac I'd want to upgrade to at this point, and too skeptical to just splurge on a few for the name and cross my fingers its not just hype


A good Forum to check out which may help you decide is the “Sound Science” forum.  There’s an active thread about DACs & whether you need an expensive one or not.  Many of the contributors to that forum & in that thread are recording engineers, technicians or work in the audio field.  They offer very qualified opinions IMHO.


----------



## Lvivske

BobG55 said:


> A good Forum to check out which may help you decide is the “Sound Science” forum.  There’s an active thread about DACs & whether you need an expensive one or not.  Many of the contributors to that forum & in that thread are recording engineers, technicians or work in the audio field.  They offer very qualified opinions IMHO.



Gonna assume if its from a technical ASR'y point of view, the answer is "No, you do not."


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> Gonna assume if its from a technical ASR'y point of view, the answer is "No, you do not."


I don’t know what ASR’y means.


----------



## Lvivske

BobG55 said:


> I don’t know what ASR’y means.



AudioScienceReview-like


----------



## Majestyk

Are the Hifiman HE6SE's really that bad with the headphone jack on vintage receivers? I have a Yamaha CA-600 and I do not want to use the speaker taps.


----------



## Monsterzero

Majestyk said:


> Are the Hifiman HE6SE's really that bad with the headphone jack on vintage receivers? I have a Yamaha CA-600 and I do not want to use the speaker taps.


Yes.


----------



## Lvivske

Pioneer finally *fully* recapped (minus 2 tantalum caps on the switch board...)







Marantz 2225 also got the power/main/tone done (skipped on the radio stuff). Mundorff 4-pole filter caps, some other Mundorff film caps in the coupling section, rest a mash up of nichicon muse/gold and audio note, WIMAs, and some Elna's in the tone section.


----------



## BobG55

Lvivske said:


> Pioneer finally *fully* recapped (minus 2 tantalum caps on the switch board...)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good job Lvivske.  Nice looking amp.


----------



## VinMAC

Mayby this is interesting for you...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/clo...-signature-master-the-vintage-experts.962050/


----------



## JoeTho

Majestyk said:


> Are the Hifiman HE6SE's really that bad with the headphone jack on vintage receivers? I have a Yamaha CA-600 and I do not want to use the speaker taps.


I periodically use my HE6SE with my vintage Sanyo JCX 2900k (140wpc). Whether using the headphone jack or running from the speaker taps, it outperforms any headphone amp I have, (Audeze Deckard, Topping A90, THX AAA 789, Audio GD Master 19) to name a few.


----------



## headphonefranz

I'm late to the party BUT I wanted to share my amazement at the quality of headphones running off my NAD 3130.
I have an Asgard 3 + the zen Can (joined to the Zen Dac) and Little Dit I - and I love the performance of all of them. 
BUT I always check out the performance using the NAD's HP socket - and (apart from some coloration / bass) - I am always blown away 
It doesn't matter if I plug in the HD 600 / 650 / Bayerdynamic DDT 880 or recently a Grado RS2e - the NAD HP amp is just excellent.

Does anyone here know why it is so good in the HP amp department?


----------



## OldRoadToad

headphonefranz said:


> I'm late to the party BUT I wanted to share my amazement at the quality of headphones running off my NAD 3130.
> I have an Asgard 3 + the zen Can (joined to the Zen Dac) and Little Dit I - and I love the performance of all of them.
> BUT I always check out the performance using the NAD's HP socket - and (apart from some coloration / bass) - I am always blown away
> It doesn't matter if I plug in the HD 600 / 650 / Bayerdynamic DDT 880 or recently a Grado RS2e - the NAD HP amp is just excellent.
> ...


I suspect that the headphone output of devices of that time were vastly superior (i.e., watts/amps) due to no one (yet) deciding that they could make money by making stand alone headphone amps?  As time went on, manufacturers either removed their headphone jacks or dumbed them down, power-wise.  Just a guess.

ORT


----------



## BobG55

headphonefranz said:


> I'm late to the party BUT I wanted to share my amazement at the quality of headphones running off my NAD 3130.
> I have an Asgard 3 + the zen Can (joined to the Zen Dac) and Little Dit I - and I love the performance of all of them.
> BUT I always check out the performance using the NAD's HP socket - and (apart from some coloration / bass) - I am always blown away
> It doesn't matter if I plug in the HD 600 / 650 / Bayerdynamic DDT 880 or recently a Grado RS2e - the NAD HP amp is just excellent.
> ...





OldRoadToad said:


> I suspect that the headphone output of devices of that time were vastly superior (i.e., watts/amps) due to no one (yet) deciding that they could make money by making stand alone headphone amps?  As time went on, manufacturers either removed their headphone jacks or dumbed them down, power-wise.  Just a guess.
> 
> ORT


I believe you guys will find the answer in this video made by Monsterzero who’s a contributor on this thread.  He talks about this very subject in the first few minutes of the video.


----------



## OldRoadToad

BobG55 said:


> I believe you guys will find the answer in this video made by Monsterzero who’s a contributor on this thread.  He talks about this very subject in the first few minutes of the video.



HUZZAH!

Thank you, brother! 

ORT


----------



## Sonic Defender

Not really, there are no separate headphone amplifier circuits in those integrated amps. They have simple resistor banks in between the speaker terminal output that feeds the headphone input. You actually are quite likely to get a degree of sound degradation that way (for instance the reported warmth for the NAD 3130 which I have also owned). That isn't to say that the sound will be bad, not at all, but in all likelihood, aside from power output, a well designed, dedicated headphone amplifier will provide the best performance with headphones. Of course there are multiple factors at play, but if all else is equal, and a dedicated headamp has enough power for the load, and is well designed, it will perform better than an integrated amplifiers headphone section which 99% of the time will just be resistors.

This is coming from somebody who uses a 180W NAD M3 as my headphone amp, but I don't have any yucky resistors in the way, I had a dedicated speaker tap cable made so that my headphones are powered directly from the speaker output of the amp. And to put that whole myth of the "extra" power advantage to rest. That is hogwash. If you have unused power it will provide absolutely zero value to you, there is no bonus for unused watt, that is just a completely unfounded myth. 

As long as your amp has the headroom to swing and provide the burst power requests that the load requires, not a single extra electron of power will flow. So if you think having extra unused watts beyond what you need for dynamic power bursts (headroom) is doing anything for the sound, think again. Unused power is simply unused power, and I have had 180W behind my headphones for probably 8 years now so if anybody should be buying into that myth it would be me. Enough power is enough power.


----------



## headphonefranz

OldRoadToad said:


> I suspect that the headphone output of devices of that time were vastly superior (i.e., watts/amps) due to no one (yet) deciding that they could make money by making stand alone headphone amps?  As time went on, manufacturers either removed their headphone jacks or dumbed them down, power-wise.  Just a guess.
> 
> ORT


ks ORT - that's helpful. It makes me want to look into the history of Headphone amplification - as a stand-alone thing. I'll try and find out when it really took off (commercially). My exposure (old and trusted and still enjoyed) had dispensed with a headphone output (which I can appreciate) - but we had the tape / record possibility.


----------



## headphonefranz (Apr 10, 2022)

BobG55 said:


> I believe you guys will find the answer in this video made by Monsterzero who’s a contributor on this thread.  He talks about this very subject in the first few minutes of the video.



Brilliant - thanks Bob! This is a revelation. The question has been in my thoughts since I got my first HP amp (creek) then the little dot Mk I - and my exposure amp went down (got it fixed) - so I ebayed in a NAD 3130 - to keep me playing my music. Then by chance I used the headphone socket on the NAD and wam! After the youtube video I now understand why - and I'm even excited about seeing if I can find a receiver that isn't too expensive - for my Grado Hemp & the HD 600 + 650s. I didn't think NAD qualified as a vintage receiver (type thing) - but aapparantly it does.

It was so interesting listening to Monsterzero - and I have subscribed to his youtube channel and will be checking out Audio Karma.

I was also amazed by the bass power (and definition) on the NAD headphone experience - I do like my Asgard 3 and am enjoying the Zen Can (with teh Zen Dac) .... there are additional qualities (that micro thing mentioned in the video).


----------



## headphonefranz (Apr 10, 2022)

Sonic Defender said:


> Not really, there are no separate headphone amplifier circuits in those integrated amps. They have simple resistor banks in between the speaker terminal output that feeds the headphone input. You actually are quite likely to get a degree of sound degradation that way (for instance the reported warmth for the NAD 3130 which I have also owned). That isn't to say that the sound will be bad, not at all, but in all likelihood, aside from power output, a well designed, dedicated headphone amplifier will provide the best performance with headphones. Of course there are multiple factors at play, but if all else is equal, and a dedicated headamp has enough power for the load, and is well designed, it will perform better than an integrated amplifiers headphone section which 99% of the time will just be resistors.
> 
> This is coming from somebody who uses a 180W NAD M3 as my headphone amp, but I don't have any yucky resistors in the way, I had a dedicated speaker tap cable made so that my headphones are powered directly from the speaker output of the amp. And to put that whole myth of the "extra" power advantage to rest. That is hogwash. If you have unused power it will provide absolutely zero value to you, there is no bonus for unused watt, that is just a completely unfounded myth.
> 
> As long as your amp has the headroom to swing and provide the burst power requests that the load requires, not a single extra electron of power will flow. So if you think having extra unused watts beyond what you need for dynamic power bursts (headroom) is doing anything for the sound, think again. Unused power is simply unused power, and I have had 180W behind my headphones for probably 8 years now so if anybody should be buying into that myth it would be me. Enough power is enough power.


Thanks  SD - that helps me understand the process. I like those resistors though. I completely get what you mean about the sense of a dedicated / designed headphone amp. Even in my tiny exposure to the world of headphone amps (only creek, pro-ject, little dot I, Heresy, recently Asgard 3 and Zen Can - I can see the possibilities and I haven't even scratched the surface. While I am not a technically equipped person - I was able to follow your explanation and it has helped me understand things better. A puzzle solved. I was wondering about the 'degradation' issue / interference / distrotion - and I easily love my old exposure 2010 (NOT the S model) - but the NAD carries the ifi zen DAC pretty well.


----------



## Sonic Defender

headphonefranz said:


> Thanks  SD - that helps me understand the process. I like those resistors though. I completely get what you mean about the sense of a dedicated / designed headphone amp. Even in my tiny exposure to the world of headphone amps (only creek, pro-ject, little dot I, Heresy, recently Asgard 3 and Zen Can - I can see the possibilities and I haven't even scratched the surface. While I am not a technically equipped person - I was able to follow your explanation and it has helped me understand things better. A puzzle solved. I was wondering about the 'degradation' issue / interference / distrotion - and I easily love my old exposure 2010 (NOT the S model) - but the NAD carries the ifi zen DAC pretty well.


So many ways to get to where we want to go so enjoy the journey. There are now quite a few excellent headphone amplifiers that are very competent and certainly by way of comparison to the recent past when it wasn't the case normally, also quite affordable. I had been a fan of dedicated headphone amps and if it wasn't for the fact that I just wanted to use my NAD M3 as a headphone amp, I would have remained a user of a dedicated headamp no questions. Mind you, with the M3 I cannot imagine any headphone amp being better so I am happy that I now have one less component to deal with. Still, at times I miss the joy of researching and making a decision and then the sheer joy of getting a new shiny box to play with. I may yet still get a headphone amp even if I don't need one.


----------



## headphonefranz

Sonic Defender said:


> So many ways to get to where we want to go so enjoy the journey. There are now quite a few excellent headphone amplifiers that are very competent and certainly by way of comparison to the recent past when it wasn't the case normally, also quite affordable. I had been a fan of dedicated headphone amps and if it wasn't for the fact that I just wanted to use my NAD M3 as a headphone amp, I would have remained a user of a dedicated headamp no questions. Mind you, with the M3 I cannot imagine any headphone amp being better so I am happy that I now have one less component to deal with. Still, at times I miss the joy of researching and making a decision and then the sheer joy of getting a new shiny box to play with. I may yet still get a headphone amp even if I don't need one.


You have perfectly given the old ‚the journey is the destination‘ adage full and true meaning. My addictive / obsessive tendencies are well served by the world of headphones and their amplification - loudspeakers too but headphones especially. This objective / subjective thing - and cables! My wife sometimes tells me to stop fondling cables.
Of course - it‘s all about the music though. A love affair with music and the infinite layers of sound (recording). What‘s your most memorable headphone amp (and headphone) experience to date?


----------



## Sonic Defender

headphonefranz said:


> ... What‘s your most memorable headphone amp (and headphone) experience to date?


I think it would be when I owned an SPL Auditor and I had both the HD650 and DT880 600ohm as my main headphones at that time. I thought the Auditor was such a transparent amp and it seemed to have the perfect ability to control the drivers so well, especially with the DT880 which was not an easy headphone to drive well.

In fact, as much as I loved the Auditor, it didn't even have quite enough power for the DT880, almost, but not quite enough to get it to the listening level I preferred. Back then I listened quite loud. I still do, but I have turned it down a little since then. I can remember there was this great song (Come Inside) by the Chemical Brothers off the album Push The Button that had this really interesting detail where a sample trailed off into a deep bass rumble deep into the background. Only with the Auditor and DT880 could I follow that sample from beginning until it disappeared into the songs background.

There are many great experiences, but I have always remembered that particular one.


----------



## headphonefranz

Sonic Defender said:


> I think it would be when I owned an SPL Auditor and I had both the HD650 and DT880 600ohm as my main headphones at that time. I thought the Auditor was such a transparent amp and it seemed to have the perfect ability to control the drivers so well, especially with the DT880 which was not an easy headphone to drive well.
> 
> In fact, as much as I loved the Auditor, it didn't even have quite enough power for the DT880, almost, but not quite enough to get it to the listening level I preferred. Back then I listened quite loud. I still do, but I have turned it down a little since then. I can remember there was this great song (Come Inside) by the Chemical Brothers off the album Push The Button that had this really interesting detail where a sample trailed off into a deep bass rumble deep into the background. Only with the Auditor and DT880 could I follow that sample from beginning until it disappeared into the songs background.
> 
> There are many great experiences, but I have always remembered that particular one.


There are many great experiences, but I have always remembered that particular one.





I’m glad I asked. SPL look like an amazing company. On a mission. I can imagine the quality of the experience with the Auditor – I hadn’t listened to Chemical Brothers for ages – so went o Quboz and gave Come Inside a whirl. Funny thing is I was just deliberating letting go o my DT880s (only 250 Ohms mind). I just discovered Grado and have to justisfy new experiences / acquisitions by letting go of stuff too. Even the 880s at 250 Ohms aren’t that easy to drive / gain full satisfaction from. I always feel good with the HD 600 & 650 and aren’t ready or willing to part company with the, The 650 were my first experience of decent headphone experience (second hand purchase on ebay). 

So anyway – you inspired me to go on a music trip. I listened to come inside with the Grado RS2e (L-cushions) – I have a very modest selection of gear – so off I went with Come Inside first on the Zen Cans, then Asgar 3, then the NAD 3130 (HP socket) and finally on LittleDotMkI.I enjoyed every iteration – all in different ways and I finally became friends with the Asgar (which I just got but have been unable to enjoy fully). 

The DAC/Amp is the Zen Signature. 

The I too the DT880 – on the Zen Can (almost max gain + throttle wide open) – that was a trip .. I was amazed by the multi-dimensionality, the cavernous sound experience (Chem Bros intention I guess). I had truly enjoyed the Grado experience – but with the L-cushion and the Grado thing – cavernous wasn’t the experience – but it sure was with the DT800. 

I checked it out twice and confirmed this experience. They also worked in a similar fashion on the Asgard 3 but even with only the 250 Ohm – the Asgard was struggling and falling a few hairs short. But also very enjoyable. 

Where the Grados had also worked well on the NAD and definitely more than well on the Little Dot (Yugo tubes) – the DT880 weren’t having any of it – they refused to be listenable. 
I respected this and stopped the experiment. 

Basically – I cannot bring myself to part with the DTTs now. I have made friends with the Asgar 3 and see / hear the Come Inside track as extraordinarily good – a superb mix. So thanks! I checked out the NAD you have – and smell trouble (for me!)

The thing is – it’s all about the music and the amazing things we can experience hearing it.


----------



## ScareDe2

According to «science», amplifiers don't make a difference. So what you get here are amazingly built vintage amplifiers packed with quality components and a big punch of power at a low price.


----------



## headphonefranz

Sonic Defender said:


> Not really, there are no separate headphone amplifier circuits in those integrated amps. They have simple resistor banks in between the speaker terminal output that feeds the headphone input. You actually are quite likely to get a degree of sound degradation that way (for instance the reported warmth for the NAD 3130 which I have also owned). That isn't to say that the sound will be bad, not at all, but in all likelihood, aside from power output, a well designed, dedicated headphone amplifier will provide the best performance with headphones. Of course there are multiple factors at play, but if all else is equal, and a dedicated headamp has enough power for the load, and is well designed, it will perform better than an integrated amplifiers headphone section which 99% of the time will just be resistors.
> 
> This is coming from somebody who uses a 180W NAD M3 as my headphone amp, but I don't have any yucky resistors in the way, I had a dedicated speaker tap cable made so that my headphones are powered directly from the speaker output of the amp. And to put that whole myth of the "extra" power advantage to rest. That is hogwash. If you have unused power it will provide absolutely zero value to you, there is no bonus for unused watt, that is just a completely unfounded myth.
> 
> As long as your amp has the headroom to swing and provide the burst power requests that the load requires, not a single extra electron of power will flow. So if you think having extra unused watts beyond what you need for dynamic power bursts (headroom) is doing anything for the sound, think again. Unused power is simply unused power, and I have had 180W behind my headphones for probably 8 years now so if anybody should be buying into that myth it would be me. Enough power is enough power.


„ had a dedicated speaker tap cable made so that my headphones are powered directly from the speaker output of the amp“

What headphones do the specially created cables connect to? I get the logic of resisting the resistors. Is the NAD M3 your ‚endgame‘ amp?


----------



## Sonic Defender

headphonefranz said:


> „ had a dedicated speaker tap cable made so that my headphones are powered directly from the speaker output of the amp“
> 
> What headphones do the specially created cables connect to? I get the logic of resisting the resistors. Is the NAD M3 your ‚endgame‘ amp?


I had a few different adapter sections made to accommodate various headphones. The original cable was designed for my then HE560 which was a first gen with SMC connectors. Then I had an adapter made to accept a 1/4" jack that could be used with either 2.5 or 3.5mm dual cup connectors. I was able to use many different headphones this way and I did of course over the years drive I am sure 10 different headphones, probably more using this cable.

The NAD M3 is a pretty amazing piece of kit for sure and according to many pretty in the know people it is technically quite competent. Certainly does everything that I could ask from it. One particularly nice feature of it is that it has a preamplifier out section that allows me to send out a signal to my two subs while also having a hardware crossover that I use to shelf my main speakers so that they don't receive any signal below 40Hz. Seems to make a great deal of difference offloading the hardest to produce, low bass to two nice 12" sub woofers (SVS SB2000 Pro). I like to run dual subs. So yes, I guess the M3 can be end game for me although I am likely to want to try some of the more accomplished class D amps and maybe try a 5.1 system. Hard to say though.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sonic Defender said:


> I think it would be when I owned an SPL Auditor and I had both the HD650 and DT880 600ohm as my main headphones at that time. I thought the Auditor was such a transparent amp and it seemed to have the perfect ability to control the drivers so well, especially with the DT880 which was not an easy headphone to drive well.
> 
> In fact, as much as I loved the Auditor, it didn't even have quite enough power for the DT880, almost, but not quite enough to get it to the listening level I preferred. Back then I listened quite loud. I still do, but I have turned it down a little since then. I can remember there was this great song (Come Inside) by the Chemical Brothers off the album Push The Button that had this really interesting detail where a sample trailed off into a deep bass rumble deep into the background. Only with the Auditor and DT880 could I follow that sample from beginning until it disappeared into the songs background.
> 
> There are many great experiences, but I have always remembered that particular one.



For me it would be a restored HK330A off the speaker taps and my restored Fisher 400 receiver.


----------



## Sonic Defender

SpeakerBox said:


> For me it would be a restored HK330A off the speaker taps and my restored Fisher 400 receiver.


Nice choices, although I have read that even restored, which can be very hard if not impossible due to transistors no longer being available, the architecture of the HK330A transformer is such that it struggles with lower resistance loads, so driving 4ohm speakers would be quite a challenge. Now if you were only going to drive headphones from the speaker terminals, different game I imagine.

Still for me, given the difficulty in sourcing parts for vintage devices, and this is only going to get worse not better, I would personally find a more current design and utilize that, but without a doubt some of these vintage units are spectacular beauties and I can absolutely get the love for them.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Sonic Defender said:


> Nice choices, although I have read that even restored, which can be very hard if not impossible due to transistors no longer being available, the architecture of the HK330A transformer is such that it struggles with lower resistance loads, so driving 4ohm speakers would be quite a challenge. Now if you were only going to drive headphones from the speaker terminals, different game I imagine.
> 
> Still for me, given the difficulty in sourcing parts for vintage devices, and this is only going to get worse not better, I would personally find a more current design and utilize that, but without a doubt some of these vintage units are spectacular beauties and I can absolutely get the love for them.



Audiokarma is full of options for complete restoration of both the HK and Fisher.  That said you are right about 4 ohm speakers on the HK.  Right now I only drive HD600 off the taps so good to go.


----------



## VinMAC

Do you know, if the old HK630 has also problems with 4 Ohm speakers? thanks.


----------



## KG Jag

According to the manual the HK630 can play a single pair of 4 Ohm speakers, but not two pair.  You can download the manual here--free with signing up:

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/harman-kardon/hk630.shtml


----------



## VinMAC

thanks a lot!


----------



## SpeakerBox

VinMAC said:


> Do you know, if the old HK630 has also problems with 4 Ohm speakers? thanks.



Yes, and I believe even the 330A is OK with a single 4 ohm load.


----------



## VinMAC

SpeakerBox said:


> Yes, and I believe even the 330A is OK with a single 4 ohm load.


O.k. but with only one pair of 4 Ohm Speakers and not so loud Level should work, I hope!


----------



## Silent One




----------



## Silent One

Setting the big ‘G’ (1978 Sansui G-22000) for a Tuesday night session with HE-6…


----------



## musicman59

Wow Anthony! You are back! I have not seen posts from you in very long time…
Glad to see you are around again!


----------



## Silent One

musicman59, great to see you; others, ”doin’ the thing” with vintage iron. This thread continues to provide enduring friendships and enchantment.


----------



## SpeakerBox

Silent One said:


> musicman59, great to see you; others, ”doin’ the thing” with vintage iron. This thread continues to provide enduring friendships and enchantment.


Good to see you back sir!


----------



## Lvivske

is grounding with the GND nub on the back of vintage amps necessary or is that just for when using turntables?


----------



## SpeakerBox

Lvivske said:


> is grounding with the GND nub on the back of vintage amps necessary or is that just for when using turntables?



If you mean a vintage preamp or receiver, yes that is for the TT.


----------



## HAWKEYE7

Silent One said:


>


Great Googly Goo!!!
That Beast must rock the foundations and sound Amazing.
I bought a Sansui G-2000 brand new from Highland Appliance in 1978 for $245 on sale. Loved it. Loved the sound, loved the look but I was a kid and I wanted to be cool. In my circle of friends cool was having a Marantz receiver. So I sold my G-2000 to my brother and bought a Marantz SR430 receiver. I still have it. It still works great. Sounds great. Then why do I still remember how GOOD my first love, that Sansui G-2000 sounded? And when I pressed the loudness button it would enhance both the bass and highs giving it a really engaging full, warm sound. 
You sir are a lucky man!


----------



## OldRoadToad

Silent One said:


>


Simply gorgeous.  Well done, indeed!

ORT


----------



## Monsterzero




----------



## OldRoadToad

Monsterzero said:


>


Superb!  Well done,  indeed!  Huzzah!

ORT


----------



## SpeakerBox

Nice gear @Monsterzero !


----------



## UntilThen

Monsterzero said:


>



Where's the Glenn OTL ?


----------



## Monsterzero

UntilThen said:


> Where's the Glenn OTL ?


 Sold it like 3 months ago


----------



## BobG55

Monsterzero said:


>


Very nice audio setup Monsterzero. 👍  What year is your 4100 ?


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## Monsterzero

BobG55 said:


> Very nice audio setup Monsterzero. 👍  What year is your 4100 ?


1979


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## SpeakerBox

What is it about this old stuff?  Gotta love it!


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## BobG55 (Jul 25, 2022)

This guy bought an entire vintage audio store.  He shipped all of the items to his store in Baltimore.  Anyone interested can contact him for specific vintage audio items he’s selling.

ShopJustAudio.com

sales@just-audio.com

410-882-4360


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## SpeakerBox

I'd be like a kid in a candy store!


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## BobG55

SpeakerBox said:


> I'd be like a kid in a candy store!


I know.  I was thinking pretty much the same thing 😆


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## ArChaos

SpeakerBox said:


> I'd be like a kid in a candy store!


Ha,ha,ha, exactly...


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## UntilThen

I bought Susvara 2 month ago and I did not think that triggers the light bulb for me to dig up my vintage amps. Susvara sound breathtaking with these vintage amps. Wish I had kept my Sansui(s).

On this lowly Sony STR-7035, Susvara became the Lion King !


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## SpeakerBox

UntilThen said:


> I bought Susvara 2 month ago and I did not think that triggers the light bulb for me to dig up my vintage amps. Susvara sound breathtaking with these vintage amps. Wish I had kept my Sansui(s).
> 
> On this lowly Sony STR-7035, Susvara became the Lion King !


Not surprised, the original premise of this thread was the amazing ability of vintage receivers (with power reserves to spare at the HP jack) to drive today's head phones..


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## Lvivske

got a new project, a Sony F6. For a 1977 the build quality on this is seriously _impressive_, from every knob n switch being solid aluminum, or the feel of the stepped (alps?) volume pot, or switches that go *thunk*, or the cool schematic drawn on top, or the glass panel on top of the VU meters...

but unfortunately the seller didnt disclose how many parts were missing from the power amp, so it may be a while before i can test on headphones or speakers (though as a pre-amp into my pioneer's power section it sounds really clean and decent enough)


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## BrownBear

That is a beauty.....nothing like old amps like this. Looking forward to impressions some day man


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## Lvivske (Sep 29, 2022)

Added an 80s JVC integrated receiver to my TV stand, an a vintage Pioneer EQ






and my Pioneer has reached its final form






Also just bought a vintage Yamaha C4 pre-amp but the restoration isn't ready for pics yet (and the Sony is still under the knife for the next few months at least)


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## UntilThen

Lvivske said:


> Added an 80s JVC integrated receiver to my TV stand, an a vintage Pioneer EQ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s a very nice stack and NAD M51 is in there.


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## red71rum (Oct 22, 2022)

Not a monster receiver but in great shape. I got this for free. The older gentleman had not used it in years and when I turned it on, the relay clicked overly loud each time, and the only sound was a loud hum over the speakers. I took it to an older tech that I know and he replaced several capacitors, and voila, the receiver was alive again. This is my third Yamaha, I have a new arms HT model, and then a totl, rx 1130, from the early 90’s with an incredibly large controller which I cannot post here because it does not meet the criteria of this thread. Anyway here is my Yamaha CR 620 -


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## OldRoadToad

red71rum said:


> Not a monster receiver but in great shape. I got this for free. The older gentleman had not used it in years and when I turned it on, the relay clicked overly loud each time, and the only sound was a loud hum over the speakers. I took it to an older tech that I know and he replaced several capacitors, and voila, the receiver was alive again. This is my third Yamaha, I have a new arms HT model, and then a totl, rx 1130, from the early 90’s with an incredibly large controller which I cannot post here because it does not meet the criteria of this thread. Anyway here is my Yamaha CR 620 -


A  truly gorgeous Yammie, sir!  Well done indeed!  HUZZAH!

ORT


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## KG Jag

Great Yamaha receiver lineup from the late 70's.  I have the CR-820, which I also got used but not for free.


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## Lvivske

red71rum said:


> Not a monster receiver but in great shape. I got this for free. The older gentleman had not used it in years and when I turned it on, the relay clicked overly loud each time, and the only sound was a loud hum over the speakers. I took it to an older tech that I know and he replaced several capacitors, and voila, the receiver was alive again. This is my third Yamaha, I have a new arms HT model, and then a totl, rx 1130, from the early 90’s with an incredibly large controller which I cannot post here because it does not meet the criteria of this thread. Anyway here is my Yamaha CR 620 -


well now you're obligated to get yamaha orthodynamic headphones  

looks great; timeless, clean design


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## Davidzak64 (Oct 23, 2022)

My 1990 Luxman  R-113 conservatively rated at 35 wpc makes my higher Ohm HP's  like the K340 and HD650 sound wonderful with plenty of headroom. It's versatility of choosing CD direct or Luxman's warm Tube Like circuitry is like having 2 amps in one. 
They can be purchased relatively cheap. With a good servicing (cleaning) it will give you a Huge bang for your buck.


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## SpeakerBox

Love the look of the vintage Yamaha gear!


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## red71rum

Lvivske said:


> well now you're obligated to get yamaha orthodynamic headphones
> 
> looks great; timeless, clean design


I know right: ) I am trying to step back and enjoy the audio I have after my last purchase of some extremely heavy Yamaha S4115H PA (circa 1978) speakers though….if anyone wants to see pics lol, let me know.


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## BobG55

red71rum said:


> I know right: ) I am trying to step back and enjoy the audio I have after my last purchase of some extremely heavy Yamaha S4115H PA (circa 1978) speakers though….if anyone wants to see pics lol, let me know.


Go ahead, why not, the more the merrier.  Vintage audio items are truly beautiful.


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## gr4474 (Oct 28, 2022)

Can someone give me a really quick summary of the best vintage receivers or amps to get...or do I need to start at page 1? I'm joking, kind of...


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## KG Jag (Oct 28, 2022)

I'm sure that many of us could, but without knowing what you're seeking and able to afford, it would probably of limited value,  Further "the best" receiver or integrated amp for you in new condition is not what you will find "in the wild" half a century (or at least many decades) later.  Another issue you will face is what you consider to be a vintage receiver.  For most of us as long in the tooth as I am, it means equipment from the late 60's until (maybe) the middle 80's, when digital controls took over and quality usually took a major hit to cut costs.

The good news is that are many great brands and models that populated this time frame.  In my case I still own and listen to vintage receivers from Sansui, Pioneer Yamaha, Marantz, Sony and Carver (if you want to stretch the time frame a bit).  There are many other great brands in addition to those on my list.  I suggest that you spend some time reading sites like:

http://www.thevintageknob.org/

https://classicaudio.com/value/index.html

https://classicreceivers.com/

https://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/vintage-hifi-reviews.html#index

https://select45rpm.com/pages/hifi/vintage-hifi-reviews-pt2.html


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## Lvivske

gr4474 said:


> Can someone give me a really quick summary of the best vintage receivers or amps to get...or do I need to start at page 1? I'm joking, kind of...



hah well like the other reply, you need to give more details because its hard to summarize ~20 years of electronics between a dozen brands

but here's a decent youtube channel which has some lists and recs





also this channel does the most product rundowns & history of lines imaginable:


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## gr4474 (Oct 28, 2022)

KG Jag said:


> I'm sure that many of us could, but without knowing what you're seeking and able to afford, it would probably of limited value,  Further "the best" receiver or integrated amp for you in new condition is not what you will find "in the wild" half a century (or at least many decades) later.  Another issue you will face is what you consider to be a vintage receiver.  For most of us as long in the tooth as I am, it means equipment from the late 60's until (maybe) the middle 80's, when digital controls took over and quality usually took a major hit to cut costs.
> 
> The good news is that are many great brands and models that populated this time frame.  In my case I still own and listen to vintage receivers from Sansui, Pioneer Yamaha, Marantz, Sony and Carver (if you want to stretch the time frame a bit).  There are many other great brands in addition to those on my list.  I suggest that you spend some time reading sites like:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply and help. I get what your saying. I am on my 2nd Pioneer SX-1000TW. First one was not recapped, and a few months in speakers had a terrible pulsing noise when I turned it on. I shelved it.
Months later I saw a recapped of the same model. He said it worked perfect, and the speakers are clear with no hum. The headphones though have a static in one ear, and hum in the other. Also there is a pop in the speakers if I power it on with volume up. I just learned that the DC offset and bias should be factory tuned, and maybe this is that problem? Edit: I love the sound but I almost always need to switch the loudness on. The first time I did that it was like audio revelation. I knew we've been played by the modern reviewers.
My question was vague I admit. This being head-fi, we like a good headphone output, and speakers sound for me. I was reading threads on the best sound from Pioneer vs Marantz, and Sansui. I understand it depends on the model years also. I like my Pioneer sound, but it's all I've heard. Some say Marantz is too warm, and not as good for faster music. That makes me think I want that warm and powerful sound and bass, but not to the point of if affecting the quality of music. 50 watts per channel is more than enough, and gives me that warm and fuzzy feeling about it...if you know what I mean. Less than 35 watts makes me not as excited mentally. I really like a pre-amp I saw that has 2 aux in puts I could use, and I don't really use the tuner on a receiver...but I love the looks of a receiver and the idea of having the tuner. I know that's not helping narrow things.

I would like to spend $400-$500, but willing to push that up to $800-$1000 just for the bling and cool factor. It also depends on what is available at the time. I've decided to buy a restored unit only from a trusted tech.


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## gr4474

Lvivske said:


> hah well like the other reply, you need to give more details because its hard to summarize ~20 years of electronics between a dozen brands
> 
> but here's a decent youtube channel which has some lists and recs
> 
> ...



Thank you...I'm subscribed to him have watched those first 2, and JUST rewatched that first one today! I noticed the one thing he didn't talk about was sound. Maybe a trip to dallas to actually hear a variety from some vintage shops would do me good. Anything would make me happy since ignorance is bliss...but I want to make an educated choice.


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## BobG55 (Oct 28, 2022)

Lvivske said:


> hah well like the other reply, you need to give more details because its hard to summarize ~20 years of electronics between a dozen brands
> 
> but here's a decent youtube channel which has some lists and recs
> 
> ...



The Pioneer SX-1980 is a great vintage amplifier, some say it’s the best.  On the other hand, it’s unaffordable for the majority of audiophiles.  And even for those who can afford one, it’s a hefty price for an 45 year old audio item, even if it’s been serviced.  BTW, I’m not criticizing your choice Lvivske, just giving my humble opinion here.


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## gr4474 (Oct 28, 2022)

Going back to my Pioneer with noise in the headphone, I got a reply from the seller:


I try every receiver with the headphones. I don't know why you're getting that result. Try playing music thru the speakers and the headphones at the same time and see if there is static and hum thru the speakers when you plug in your headphones. If so, it sounds like the jack on the headphone is pushing the contact fin into something metal. Like it's grounding it out. You'd have to take the lid off to watch when the jack is plugged in. It sounds like it is a mechanical problem with the way your headphones are plugged in. Weird."
​

Maybe it's an easy fix?


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## Lvivske

BobG55 said:


> The Pioneer SX-1980 is a great vintage amplifier, some say it’s the best.  On the other hand, it’s unaffordable for the majority of audiophiles.  And even for those who can afford one, it’s a hefty price for an 45 year old audio item, even if it’s been serviced.  BTW, I’m not criticizing your choice Lvivske, just giving my humble opinion here.



it was a channel recommendation, didnt suggest he buy it


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## Lvivske

gr4474 said:


> Going back to my Pioneer with noise in the headphone, I got a reply from the seller:
> 
> 
> I try every receiver with the headphones. I don't know why you're getting that result. Try playing music thru the speakers and the headphones at the same time and see if there is static and hum thru the speakers when you plug in your headphones. If so, it sounds like the jack on the headphone is pushing the contact fin into something metal. Like it's grounding it out. You'd have to take the lid off to watch when the jack is plugged in. It sounds like it is a mechanical problem with the way your headphones are plugged in. Weird."​
> ...



give more deets please, whats the issue?


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## gr4474

gr4474 said:


> I am on my 2nd Pioneer SX-1000TW. ......I saw a recapped of the same model. He said it worked perfect, and the speakers are clear with no hum. The headphones though have a static in one ear, and hum in the other. Also there is a pop in the speakers if I power it on with volume up. I just learned that the DC offset and bias should be factory tuned, and maybe this is that problem?


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## Lvivske (Oct 28, 2022)

- pop in the speakers....does it not have a relay?

- the headphone issue, is that entirely for headphones or does static or single-channel hum present itself if you put your ear to speakers as well? also, how loud of static is it? what impedance are the headphones?


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## gr4474

I'm not sure about a relay.

I just realized I can't hear it in the speaker because of my computer fans. I turned off the computer and sure enough, there is static cutting in and out in the right speaker also. The hum is in the left channel but I don't notice it enough on the speaker. The headphones magnify the problem.


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## red71rum

Here is my Yamaha RX-1130 circa 1988-89, it was TOTL at that time. I got it with some Magnapan SMGa. It has a cartoonishly large controller also. The receiver sounds great to me, and seems to use lighting scheme from early Pioneer Elite receivers.


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## BobG55

I was watching one of my favourite movies tonight on my iPad, Black Rain (1989) w/ Michael Douglas.  The story takes place in Japan and during one aerial shot scene this sign appeared so I took a photo.  It happens to be the Japanese co. of my vintage amp.  Top left of the photo.


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## CrocCap

Holo Spring 3 dac feeding the Sherwood S-7910 receiver, which is driving speakers and is preamping for the Sherwood S-5500 II tube integrated which drive the HE-6.


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## SpeakerBox

Love the old Sherwood gear!


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## Oregonian

Just popping in to say HI!  Haven't been on Head Fi for quite a while but just caught up on THIS thread since it's my passion.  

One change is I bought a pair of HE-500's and somewhere a number of pages back it was mentioned about how good the midrange on these is........very accurate opinion.  I still love my HE-6SE (modded with the Audeze headband and sporting Vegan pads from Audeze) but switch back and forth once a week to the HE-500 and love them.  Pristine condition, fully modded and using Vegan pads on them as well.  Have the last two pair in existence probably................bought them towards the end of the Audeze run and glad I did but they are starting to flake at the transition to the Vegan area so gonna try the Dekoni replacement hybrid pads when UPS delivers them.

Still loving the Pioneer Spec rack system and of course all my headphones are fed from the speaker taps including the HE-500's.  All headphones fed with Q French Silk cabling.  One other thing I did this year is have my SG-9800 equalizer recapped................made a HUGE difference in how clean the sound is.  

Very happy with the vintage systems and all are still in use.  Glad to be back among my brethren.  Hope you all are well...........


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## Monsterzero

Oregonian said:


> Just popping in to say HI!  Haven't been on Head Fi for quite a while but just caught up on THIS thread since it's my passion.
> 
> One change is I bought a pair of HE-500's and somewhere a number of pages back it was mentioned about how good the midrange on these is........very accurate opinion.  I still love my HE-6SE (modded with the Audeze headband and sporting Vegan pads from Audeze) but switch back and forth once a week to the HE-500 and love them.  Pristine condition, fully modded and using Vegan pads on them as well.  Have the last two pair in existence probably................bought them towards the end of the Audeze run and glad I did but they are starting to flake at the transition to the Vegan area so gonna try the Dekoni replacement hybrid pads when UPS delivers them.
> 
> ...


 The mids of the HE-500 are so good, I do regret selling my pair....Oh, and welcome back dude. Where you been?


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## Oregonian

Monsterzero said:


> The mids of the HE-500 are so good, I do regret selling my pair....Oh, and welcome back dude. Where you been?


Started a new job, helping out more and more with my now 4 year old grandson and just life in general I guess................glad to be back and thanks for the welcome back!


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## richard51 (Dec 10, 2022)

Hello to all old fellows audiophile and music lover....

I am now only in headphone listenings....Then i come back to headfi....  

I changed my marvellous Sansui AU-7700 to a Sansui alpha series ... More clean and lower noise floor for my loved Akg K340  headphone...I kept the Sansui AU 7700 in a box.... I dont think i will use it for music but more for my cinema on screen computer ....

The AKG K340 is a vintage work of art which was asking to be optimized by improving modifications but also for clean source....

I had bought the Sansui Alpha 6 or 5  years ago , because i was so much in love with the Sansui Au-7700 for my room/speakers .... I pay the alpha  300 bucks but it is a great deal for one of the top Sansui .....Pairing it with the difficult to drive K340 was a pairing in heaven....


My best to all vintage brothers....


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## Monsterzero

richard51 said:


> Hello to all old fellows audiophile and music lover....
> 
> I am now only in headphone listenings....
> 
> I changed my marvellous Sansui AU-7700 to a Sansui alpha series... More clean and lower noise floor for my loved Akg K340  headphone...


Long time no see Richard. Good to see you back and still rocking your K340!


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## richard51 (Dec 10, 2022)

My best salutations to Monsterzero.....

I succeeded in the last month to put the K340 on his optimal level and i am astonished.... This headphone is the most underestimated vintage top of the cream headphone there is.... It is impossible to imagine if we had not optimize it with , clean source, amplification, vibrations controls , a bit of equalization and new good cables and new pads ( Vented holes pads from China) especially....

I am lucky....

Thanks for your welcome....


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## richard51 (Dec 12, 2022)

My best wishes and salutations to oregonian  and SpeakerBox friends.... Happy to be here....

I came back because i already know the place here and some people like those  who welcome me.... And i own always a Sansui, but these times i work with a  vintage Sansui Au-Alpha 607i for my vintage AKG K340...

 My acoustic speakers/room is replaced now  by headphone listening....Solding my house to go in a smaller place at 71 is necessary.... I would have been sad to be frank  going back to headphone after my dedicated acoustic room and speakers.... But the new Sansui, with a more clean output than my marvellous but less useful Sansui AU 7700 now without their matching speakers, is alimenting my K340 which are after the pyramids the technology from which i feel the more happiness....

Yes i exagerate here, but wait to  listen to an optimally driven K340 , this is my end game.... Nothing i listen in my life touch it....  Even my room/speakers was not better on all counts....  For me in the vintage world, Sansui and this AKG K340 are one  the most underrated toys on the market...

This alpha 607 is the first model of the famous alpha series, the last work of art of Sansui and the best amplifiers they ever designed.... I loved the AU-7700 so much i bought this alpha 5 years ago but never used it.... It was necessary to use it now because the AkG K340 are very sensitive to the noise floor level and this alpha is better than my AU-7700 for his lower  noise floor and more refined sounding, less warmer but more clean.... With my speakers i prefered the tube like warmish  AU-7700 but with the headphone  the difference  play for the alpha  more cleanliness and higher refinement.... Then i use this 90 watts amplifier as a dedicated  headphone amplifier only....

My late Ember tube amplifier which i sold could not have driven them with the same ease anyway and no need of tubes amplifier with any Sansui S.S. they always sound organic.... In fact my 2 Solid state  Sansui had better "tubes sound" than the Ember tube amplifier.... 

I am pretty sure the only thing that will improve  over the Sansui Alpha working, would be the Berning ZOTL but the price is not the same....And i dont want to pay much  for a little improving....Where i am now nothing is better if i dont pay a great deal more....If it is possible anyway  to crush the K340 on all acoustic counts, and i am not sure at all  about this....   My dynamic  beyerdynamic Dt 990 pro or my Akg K701 or my two Stax electrostatic or the Hifiman He-400 planar ,  for example dont hold a candle to the hybrid  K340 sunnier powerful and natural 3-d  sound... and reading reviews i dont bet against my K340 for all  the 4,000 dollars new headphone on the market.... For sure some will beat my K340, but trust me not by a so  great margin.... And by God ! i pay them 100 bucks, like my Sansui AU 7700... I pay 300 bucks my alpha.... _The S.Q./ price ratio is the only ratio that matter for me_



 And by the way the top Alpha series model the Au-07 sell for 3,000 us dollars now.... And mine alpha sell around 1000 bucks used...Or a little more.... And their basic tech is identical, only refined.....





https://audio-database.com/SANSUI/amp/au-alpha607.html


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## richard51 (Dec 12, 2022)

But the AKG K340 is my dream come true with music after all, the amplifier so good it is,  is only the servant of this king....... It takes me time to learn how to use this headphone optimally....  It was necessary to mods them first and built all other audio elements all around them and for them ...New amplification, new dac, new cables, new pads, vibrations internal shell cups materials controls with 2 kind of materials, other modifications too....

At the end i cannot fathom anything that will be better on all acoustic counts under many thousand dollars and i am not even sure that anything can beat them really.... After all they were the Flagship of AKG 40 years ago and their technology even if successful was not continued....

Too complex technology to manage and improve well enough in a changing world with the ascent of the specialized headphone amplifiers in the decade after their introduction.... The K340 need  some volts swing able enough powerful  amplifier....And their shells cups house 2 new technology at the same time,  then  it would have been in need of more research to be acoustically  optimized.... And many people begins to bought headphone specialized amplifiers at these times for more easy to drive  portable headphone .... They are not made to be used walking from a phone for sure.... This explain why AKg put them aside for new  design like the K1000 , which being different is not better....And the next flagship being the K701 is not even in the same league than the K340... I own them two....



This headphone is a cult object now always affordable at a relatively low cost because they will stay under the radar for many reasons, one being that to work at their peak level they ask for some  mods...   But there is a clear reason of their cult status, even in their raw out of the box state, it is the only new  working technology piece of his kind on the market  with hybridation of dynamic driver and electret which  crossover is at  at 4khz, then these dynamic and electret  work in equal footing so to speak    and more than that,  they use 5 internal passive Helmholtz resonators that make the sound holographical , natural, in 3-d format in your room, if the recording is  good, you dont feel the sound in your head.... Amazing.... I really  love headphone now after buying 8 headphones at least i dont use anymore....

If you are curious about this headphone this article of the  AKG company under my post  explain it all.....Nothing they said is exagerated or untrue,  it is information not marketing bull, i know it because i listen to them right now.... And this is an  end game toy....The rest is hype and upgraditis for me....




Conclusion:  Vintage is the road to go, for the sake of the S.Q./price ratio, and for a cultish product  which had proven itself to be more than only good, after 40 years or thirty five years  for the alpha amplifier,  then we pay for an always  underrated by hype,  proven by time,  masterpiece at a ridiculous low price...


----------



## CJG888

Just won this at auction:





Should arrive in early January.


----------



## richard51 (Dec 15, 2022)

Very beautiful Braun CSV300 amplifier....Congratulations
CJG888​for this piece of art! 

It is supposed to be 15-20 watts only but it seems to be a very fine amplifier, the design is appealling to me....Without indiscretion for sure if you want to answer only : how much do you pay ?

Please write a short review after the listening....

My best wishes to you....


----------



## roadcykler

Oregonian said:


> Just popping in to say HI!  Haven't been on Head Fi for quite a while but just caught up on THIS thread since it's my passion.
> 
> One change is I bought a pair of HE-500's and somewhere a number of pages back it was mentioned about how good the midrange on these is........very accurate opinion.  I still love my HE-6SE (modded with the Audeze headband and sporting Vegan pads from Audeze) but switch back and forth once a week to the HE-500 and love them.  Pristine condition, fully modded and using Vegan pads on them as well.  Have the last two pair in existence probably................bought them towards the end of the Audeze run and glad I did but they are starting to flake at the transition to the Vegan area so gonna try the Dekoni replacement hybrid pads when UPS delivers them.
> 
> ...


Welcome back from a fellow Northwesterner. As for being well, I'd be more well if the person in your avatar was my girlfriend (as long as my wife didn't know).


----------



## CJG888

richard51 said:


> Very beautiful Braun CSV300 amplifier....Congratulations
> CJG888​for this piece of art!
> 
> It is supposed to be 15-20 watts only but it seems to be a very fine amplifier, the design is appealling to me....Without indiscretion for sure if you want to answer only : how much do you pay ?
> ...


Thank you!

I primarily bought it because I am a big fan of Dieter Rams and his clearly Bauhaus-inspired industrial design. 

I paid 105€ including shipping, but took a bit of a gamble as it is untested. All the same, the important cosmetics are 9/10, and I am sure I can get it going again. At least the PSU reservoir caps will need to be changed (I’ll fit modern Elna or Nichicon and keep the originals in a safe place).

It will go in my home office / bedroom system, with this here:






as the source and a pair of Tang Band-based fullrange monitors of my own design.

I’ll be one of very few people converting a Dual 1019 from RCAs back to the original DIN plug!


----------

