# iFi Micro iDSD Black Label Rigs vs. Schitt stacks and Others......???



## Condocondor (Jun 15, 2018)

Wanted to start a thread about iFi's* Micro iDSD Black Label* rigs vs. various Schitt stacks and other "All-in-one" units.   I know many people have made these comparisons over the years, but my Black Label is "tricked out" and I'm starting to wonder:  "How much better does desktop stacks get than my "portable" rig?  How much money do I have to spend to get anything appreciably better?"  I'm using the *Sennheiser HD6XX* open headphones.   My rig improved considerably with iFi's *iPURIFIER2.  *Then I added an iFi *iGALVANIC3.0* and whoa!  Then I added iFi's *iDefender* and *iPower *which made very little difference.  I'm still using the standard blue USB cable that came with the unit.  I upgraded the firmware of the Black Label which gives *MQA capability* which I use to stream *TIDAL MASTERS w/MQA.

My God!  How much better does it get?  Enlighten me Head-fi people.  





*


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## phthora

Condocondor said:


> Wanted to start a thread about iFi's* Micro iDSD Black Label* rigs vs. various Schitt stacks and other "All-in-one" units.   I know many people have made these comparisons over the years, but my Black Label is "tricked out" and I'm starting to wonder:  "How much better does desktop stacks get than my "portable" rig?  How much money do I have to spend to get anything appreciably better?"  I'm using the *Sennheiser HD6XX* open headphones.   My rig improved considerably with iFi's *iPURIFIER2.  *Then I added an iFi *iGALVANIC3.0* and whoa!  Then I added iFi's *iDefender* and *iPower *which made very little difference.  I'm still using the standard blue USB cable that came with the unit.  I upgraded the firmware of the Black Label which gives *MQA capability* which I use to stream *TIDAL MASTERS w/MQA.
> 
> My God!  How much better does it get?  Enlighten me Head-fi people. *



Oh, man. I have some conflicted feelings about even responding to this. This is like when your wife asks you, "do you think I'm the prettiest woman in the world?" So, I'm tempted to just respond the same way. I love my Black Label, I want to spend the rest of my life with it, and it's the prettiest to me. 

"The **** you mean '_to me_?'"

Oops. 

Okay, seriously now. The Black Label is peerless when it comes to quality sound _and _incredible versatility. It's the consummate jack-of-all-trades, but also master of several. I use the thing in so many different spots in my audio chain, it's sort of silly. And that bass boost has been the difference in more than one case between selling a headphone and keeping it. However, it is not perfect.

What you can improve by going desktop AIO or stack is resolution, soundstage and imaging, treble and bass extension, dynamism/impact, neutrality, and control. Those are, to me, the areas where the iFi comes up just a little short. The extras you've chosen to trick out your BL seem mostly to reduce distortion in various ways, which may in turn help improve the areas that I mentioned over stock. However, my desktop AIO, Audio-gd 28.38, is simply and markedly better in all those areas. It's a very noticeable, very immediate improvement. Additionally, my Onkyo DP-X1 and iBasso P5 combo are also better than the BL in a few ways. Both set-ups were about $1000. I think that's about the number for a definite, non-subjective, noticeable improvement over the BL in terms of a DAC/amp combo. Maybe $800, as the Questyle CMA400i has been getting rave reviews. But, if you're looking for a big improvement in sound, it's not going to be cheap.


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## Condocondor (Jun 15, 2018)

phthora said:


> Oh, man. I have some conflicted feelings about even responding to this. This is like when your wife asks you, "do you think I'm the prettiest woman in the world?" So, I'm tempted to just respond the same way. I love my Black Label, I want to spend the rest of my life with it, and it's the prettiest to me.
> 
> "The **** you mean '_to me_?'"
> 
> ...



No, I appreciate your candid-ness.  This is WHY I started the thread.  I've NOT heard a lot of other headphone equipment.  I've heard plenty of high-end stereo equipment but I don't know headphone equipment too well.  I wasn't fishing for compliments.  The Black Label, tricked out, does take the SQ up a whole other level for sure--maybe even 2 levels.  So, I'm thinking,  "What the hell would be my upgrade path?  What would I buy? And how much would I need to spend to get an appreciably better sound?  Would a Bimby/Lyr3 stack do it?  Or is this NOT enough of an upgrade?  I suspect many Black Label owners sold out before trying to trick their units out--it appears to scale very, very, well.   I'm already at the $1000 mark now so.......  Heading over to Audio-gd websight now....*.*


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## phthora

Condocondor said:


> No, I appreciate your candid-ness.  This is WHY I started the thread.  I've NOT heard a lot of other headphone equipment.  I've heard plenty of high-end stereo equipment but I don't know headphone equipment too well.  I wasn't fishing for compliments.  The Black Label, tricked out, does take the SQ up a whole other level for sure--maybe even 2 levels.  So, I'm thinking,  "What the hell would be my upgrade path?  What would I buy? And how much would I need to spend to get an appreciably better sound?  Would a Bimby/Lyr3 stack do it?  Or is this NOT enough of an upgrade?  I suspect many Black Label owners sold out before trying to trick their units out--it appears to scale very, very, well.   I'm already at the $1000 mark now so.......*.*



The Bimby/Lyr3 would likely be a better combo, but the most obvious area for improving the sound of the BL is in the resolution, extension, and clarity. So, it would be a better move, I think, to invest in something known for those attributes, especially if you want to continue to use the BL. 

However, the best piece of advice I can give you is to try to find a local store, local meet-up, local people where you can try new equipment, any new equipment. Expand your knowledge base as much as possible. As with anything, you have to develop your palate as you move up the chain in quality. A lot of the improvements that the equipment offers may not be readily noticeable, especially as you upgrade things that are already very good. And, of course, you will develop different priorities regarding what makes good sound good.


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## riso1983

Pre Box S2 Digital vs ifi idsd bl ≥≤ sound quality compared?? Need to buy something like that for my friend max 400usd. No separated solutions he need aio. Thank you, I will appreciate your help.


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## FangJoker (Sep 11, 2018)

I have had audio gd products before and I liked them more than schitt. I think you would find a big improvement in changing headphones. I started off with the hd650 a long time ago and found that while it is good for the price, there are much better offerings out there if your budget allows for it. Just staying under the 1k mark can get you something way better.


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## Condocondor

vegasf1 said:


> I have had audio gd products before and I liked them more than schitt. I think you would find a big improvement in changing headphones. I started off with the hd650 a long time ago and found that while it is good for the price, there are much better offerings out there if your budget allows for it. Just staying under the 1k mark can get you something way better I'm home.



I've owned the $1100 Beyerdynamic T5p.2 which has a lot more clarity and firmer bass.  I've listened to the horrible $1500 AKG K812.  So, I've not explored the planer magnetic variety.   Honestly, all-in-all, the HD650 while not doing anything particularly excellent, is just a nice all-around that I seem to be able to live with.  It's not the money.  I understand that the HD650 scales very well with better DAC and AMPs.  I've not heard Schitt equipment.  The iFi equipment that I've got is now operating at a very high level with all the USB decrapifiers I've got in the chain.  I'm trying to find people that have had iFi equipment in the past--that have jumped ship to the Schitt Products.  How much did they have to spend?  How much better did it get?  I believe I'll have to do the 15-day trial with Schitt products and compare myself.  Hope the Schitt people are patient with me.


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## FangJoker (Jul 4, 2018)

Condocondor said:


> I've owned the $1100 Beyerdynamic T5p.2 which has a lot more clarity and firmer bass.  I've listened to the horrible $1500 AKG K812.  So, I've not explored the planer magnetic variety.   Honestly, all-in-all, the HD650 while not doing anything particularly excellent, is just a nice all-around that I seem to be able to live with.  It's not the money.  I understand that the HD650 scales very well with better DAC and AMPs.  I've not heard Schitt equipment.  The iFi equipment that I've got is now operating at a very high level with all the USB decrapifiers I've got in the chain.  I'm trying to find people that have had iFi equipment in the past--that have jumped ship to the Schitt Products.  How much did they have to spend?  How much better did it get?  I believe I'll have to do the 15-day trial with Schitt products and compare myself.  Hope the Schitt people are patient with me.



I've had the older versions of the gungnir and valhalla and didn't like it compared to audio-gd or the original hugo. Maybe take a look at the massdrop x focal elear headphones? I've heard lots of good things about the multibit versions of the dacs so you might want to at least check those out and they have a free 15 day refund window. The hd650 was just too slow for me. I listen to rock music most of the time and it sounded too muddy down low and in the mids for me. I haven't tried the 660, but that might be a better option unless the 6xx is doing it for you.  I hope you find what you're looking for. I'm just not a fan of the hd650 or ifi and schiit.


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## Condocondor

I've been checking audio-gd out.  Still researching.


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## notorious4163

hey question guys can someone please help me out

i have the black label i got an ipurfier3 for my micro bl (type A right?) and the guy also sold me a pear stone super speed usb 3.0 A/Male to B/Male cable that actually connects to the ipurify which connects to the  imicro.

is this cable just as good as the blue stock cable? (the blue stock cable doesn’t fit into the ipurify which is why i got the black cable

my questions are 1) is the picture i’m uploading the correct setup for just the ifi purifer3.0?

2) do i really need the galvanic3.0. what does it do? is it only for people who use their amps on their computer or to improve sound on their computer?? i’m so confused as to what this machine is. does it make the micro dsd bl sound better and does it come with the blue cable that attaches to the purifier?


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## notorious4163

is this right?


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## panasonicst60

I'm reviving this thread! Any more recommendations for 2019? Under $1000?


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## Condocondor

panasonicst60 said:


> I'm reviving this thread! Any more recommendations for 2019? Under $1000?


I'm still working on it.  I'm thinking of going with an SMSL SU-9 DAC for about $460.  Now for an amp I'm thinking maybe Schitt Asgard3?  Either that or there's the iDSD Signature and Diablo now?  Help..lol.


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## dskelto

Condocondor said:


> I'm still working on it.  I'm thinking of going with an SMSL SU-9 DAC for about $460.  Now for an amp I'm thinking maybe Schitt Asgard3?  Either that or there's the iDSD Signature and Diablo now?  Help..lol.


I recently picked up a Topping A90 and have been using my micro idsd black as a dac with Hifiman Arya balanced. The combination is absolutely sublime.


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## Chamade

dskelto said:


> I recently picked up a Topping A90 and have been using my micro idsd black as a dac with Hifiman Arya balanced. The combination is absolutely sublime.



I assume you connected the BL to the A90 through the RCA ports. Wondering how much is this holding things back as oppose to hooking up the DAC thru balanced XLR?


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## Blasterinn

This discussion is pretty interesting!
Ihave the micro black too, and i think that it's great.
However i am also interested in an upgrade, a desktop one is what I am looking for.
How did things go with the audio-gd products?


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## Condocondor

Still researching.  I've demoed the Yulong DA-ART Aquilla DAC/AMP and the TEAC UD-505 DAC/AMP for $700 and $1700 respectively.  Both were a "NO" for me.  The Yulong was a side grade at best and I missed the warmth and lusciousness of the iDSD BL + iGalvanic + iPurifier3.  The TEAC was supposed to be dual mono, dual 9038Pro DAC chips, Balanced, etc. and guess what?  It sounded thin and hollow and lacked any bass that I'd grown custom to with my set-up.  

It appears that while the iDSD has some weaknesses, so does everything else regardless of money.  I think I'm about ready to go on a "buying to Demo" rampage and just start buying several things at once on the credit cards to try.  Josh Valour of Youtube fame recommends the Topping D70s MQA as it has a better soundstage than it's more expensive brother the D90 and nearly indistinguishable--for $100 less.  He then recommends the Gustard H16 for an amp and HiFiMan Arya for headphones.  Now, what I think I'm after is just a bit more space around the instruments in the music.  Perhaps the new iDSD Signature would provide that little "extra".  Maybe it's the Diablo?  Maybe it's a Schitt Bifrost2/Jotenheim2 stack?  All of these items are in play for me.


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## Chamade (Mar 28, 2021)

Condocondor said:


> Still researching.  I've demoed the Yulong DA-ART Aquilla DAC/AMP and the TEAC UD-505 DAC/AMP for $700 and $1700 respectively.  Both were a "NO" for me.  The Yulong was a side grade at best and I missed the warmth and lusciousness of the iDSD BL + iGalvanic + iPurifier3.  The TEAC was supposed to be dual mono, dual 9038Pro DAC chips, Balanced, etc. and guess what?  It sounded thin and hollow and lacked any bass that I'd grown custom to with my set-up.
> 
> It appears that while the iDSD has some weaknesses, so does everything else regardless of money.  I think I'm about ready to go on a "buying to Demo" rampage and just start buying several things at once on the credit cards to try.  Josh Valour of Youtube fame recommends the Topping D70s MQA as it has a better soundstage than it's more expensive brother the D90 and nearly indistinguishable--for $100 less.  He then recommends the Gustard H16 for an amp and HiFiMan Arya for headphones.  Now, what I think I'm after is just a bit more space around the instruments in the music.  Perhaps the new iDSD Signature would provide that little "extra".  Maybe it's the Diablo?  Maybe it's a Schitt Bifrost2/Jotenheim2 stack?  All of these items are in play for me.


Check out the Dethonray Honey H1 if you want a transportable amp/dac. Lush, detailed and warm sound with lots of character...different from my BL, more detailed and dynamic while retaining the warmth. Drives the Arya very well.


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## Blasterinn

I have just heard so much in the way of negative comments about schiit products and audio-gd stuff too.
That it mesures really bad and in many cases the distortion is audible and the design is really old.
Not judging as i have not heard it myself.
The ifi pro idsd dac/amp is sweet, but prohibitingly expensive.
I also want to keep the full sound of the micro black, however, the search has not been successful.


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## Condocondor (Mar 28, 2021)

dskelto said:


> I recently picked up a Topping A90 and have been using my micro idsd black as a dac with Hifiman Arya balanced. The combination is absolutely sublime.


So did the Topping A90 amp just crush the amp in the iDSD BL?  What is the difference exactly and how big of a jump was it? Or was it just a matter of higher power for the Aryas...rather than the sound signature difference?


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## iFi audio

Condocondor said:


> So did the Topping A90 amp just crush the amp in the iDSD BL?



That's an interesting question and I'd like to know the answer myself


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## squadgazzz (Apr 7, 2021)

Hi! I've tried to switch from BL to Signature with no luck. Signature has better details sacrificing soundstage and warmth.
What exactly advantages iPurifier and iGalvanic bring? According to documentation, these devices should help with some hisses and when a long USB cable is used. I don't hear any with my headphones and BL. My source is MacBook, not a desktop PC.
BTW, I found IFI's OTG cable is much better than the blue one.


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> What exactly advantages iPurifier and iGalvanic bring?



These accessories essentially condition USB signal prior to it entering a DAC. iGalvanic provides glavanic isolation to the USB pipeline, and iPurifier (a "baby" nano/micro iUSB3.0) reclocks it. In other words, they do digfferent things to make your USB connection better, and can work together.


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## Blasterinn

I have ordered the Topping D70S MQA dac & Singxer SA-1 amp to accompany it.
I realize this combination might not have the warmth of the Ifi micro black but at least it's going to be fun!


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## iFi audio

Blasterinn said:


> I have ordered the Topping D70S MQA dac & Singxer SA-1 amp to accompany it.
> I realize this combination might not have the warmth of the Ifi micro black but at least it's going to be fun!



Do let us know how it works out for you


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## Condocondor (Apr 7, 2021)

squadgazzz said:


> Hi! I've tried to switch from BL to Signature with no luck. Signature has better details sacrificing soundstage and warmth.
> What exactly advantages iPurifier and iGalvanic bring? According to documentation, these devices should help with some hisses and when a long USB cable is used. I don't hear any with my headphones and BL. My source is MacBook, not a desktop PC.
> BTW, I found IFI's OTG cable is much better than the blue one.


Oh man.  Where do I start?  The iPurifier3 and iGalvanic take the BL to a whole other level.  It's not about getting rid of hiss although it will do that.  It's about increased sound stage, clarity, smoothness, richness, dynamics, etc.  These devices working together are worth the cost.  I'm having a tough time trying to find an upgrade path that lets me hang on to the the BL's warmth and richness.  If you like the basic tonality and functions of your BL then simply upgrade the accessories to improve it.  It may actually cost you less than upgrading the whole rig and you'll be thrilled.  Trust me, the iPurifer and the iGalvanic added to your chain will put an instant grin on your face.  So another $500 bucks to BL nirvana.......... AND you can take these devices with you to your next rig if in fact you find something you like better.  I will say that I'd start with the iPurifier3 then add the iGalvanic later if you can't afford the whole thing at once.  For whatever reason, the iGalvanic by itself is not quite as impressive as when added to the iPurifier.  Perhaps iFi can chime in here on why these two devices sound so good together.


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## squadgazzz

Condocondor said:


> Oh man.  Where do I start?  The iPurifier3 and iGalvanic take the BL to a whole other level.  It's not about getting rid of hiss although it will do that.  It's about increased sound stage, clarity, smoothness, richness, dynamics, etc.  These devices working together are worth the cost.  I'm having a tough time trying to find an upgrade path that lets me hang on the the BL's warmth and richness.  If you like the basic tonality and functions of your BL then simply upgrade the accessories to improve it.  It may actually cost you less than upgrading the whole rig and you'll be thrilled.  Trust me, the iPurifer and the iGalvanic added to your chain will put an instant grin on your face.  So another $500 bucks to BL nirvana.......... AND you can take these devices with you to your next rig if in fact you find something you like better.  I will say that I'd start with the iPurifier3 then the iGalvanic later if you can't afford the whole thing at once.  For whatever reason, the iGalvanic by itself is not quite as impressive as when added to the iPurifier.  Perhaps iFi can chime in here on why these two devices sound so good together.


Thanks, I'll try this out. Have you tried to compare this set with IFI iDSD Neo or RME ADI-2 DAC FS or Chord Hugo 2 or Chord Mojo or Sony TA-ZH1ES or Questyle CMA-400i?


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## Condocondor (Apr 7, 2021)

squadgazzz said:


> Thanks, I'll try this out. Have you tried to compare this set with IFI iDSD Neo or RME ADI-2 DAC FS or Chord Hugo 2 or Chord Mojo or Sony TA-ZH1ES or Questyle CMA-400i?


No, I have not.  But I've read and viewed a lot YouTubes of comparisons over the years.  I would say the BL set (with purifier/galvanic) should smoke the Mojo which is close to the Hugo2.  Neither the Mojo or the Hugo2 has galvanic isolation*.  *And galvanic isolation is a mainstay in all higher end DACs for a reason. I would say that the BL with the purifier/Galvanic set is perhaps 15-20% better than BL by itself......and that's saying something! And you get to keep the basic tonality and functionality of the BL. Here is a great article on the iFi Audio iGalvanic which explains everything in great detail:

*https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31125-ifi-audio-igalvanic30-the-holy-grail-of-computer-audio/#comments*


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## iFi audio

Condocondor said:


> The iPurifier3 and iGalvanic take the BL to a whole other level.


Quite the something, isn't it ?

iGalvanic alone does a lot to the USB pipeline and these changes are anything but subtle, but they don't alter the core you already have. At least that's how I see them.


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## squadgazzz (Apr 10, 2021)

I've recently got iPurifier3. I'd like to say I have noticed a minor difference only. Lows sound a bit cleaner and less boomy. Highs a bit longer/extended. Maybe you hear a bigger difference because of your laptop or better headphones. I use a MacBook Pro 2018 with Campfire Cascade.
@Condocondor, could you please provide any track names to listen and hear the difference with and without iPurifier? And if possible with description of differences


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> I've recently got iPurifier3. I'd like to say I have noticed a minor difference only. Lows sound a bit cleaner and less boomy. Highs a bit longer/extended. Maybe you hear a bigger difference because of your laptop or better headphones. I use a MacBook Pro 2018 with Campfire Cascade.



The odds are that your USB out is rather clean, and the cleaner it is, the less impact USB reclockers make. But with such products I recommend getting used to them over longer period of time. I'd plug it in, leave it be for a week or so and then unplug it.


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## squadgazzz

iFi audio said:


> The odds are that your USB out is rather clean, and the cleaner it is, the less impact USB reclockers make. But with such products I recommend getting used to them over longer period of time. I'd plug it in, leave it be for a week or so and then unplug it.


Thanks. I'm going to try out. So sad IFI doesn't produce USB-B to USB-C cables. 15cm ones like OTG. I have to order from some from China and have no idea about the quality.


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> So sad IFI doesn't produce USB-B to USB-C cables.



Perhaps we might, but at this time I have no info about this 

If there's enough demand, we make things happen.


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## squadgazzz

iFi audio said:


> The odds are that your USB out is rather clean, and the cleaner it is, the less impact USB reclockers make. But with such products I recommend getting used to them over longer period of time. I'd plug it in, leave it be for a week or so and then unplug it.


You were right. Few days after I can clearly hear the difference. And maybe it's not only my ears but burn-in too.


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> You were right. Few days after I can clearly hear the difference. And maybe it's not only my ears but burn-in too.



I'm happy to hear that, thanks for your feedback. Some changes in our setups we usually hear right away (i.e. a DAC or amp swap), but some require longer accommodation. Burn-in contributes too.


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## squadgazzz

Here's my story. I've tried to use this scheme with different sources: Macbook Pro and Xiaomi Notebook Pro. Also, I've switched from stock USB cables to AudioQuest Carbon USB-B->C and Furutech GT2 Pro USB-A->B. I'd say, Windows loses in everything. With Macbook I've got quality increase for sure, but I'd say, it's 15% maximum. So if I were you I'd switch from PC to Apple device. This will help you even more. And of course, use a proper app like Audirvana. Now I have a very detailed sound, even more detailed than stock iDSD micro Signature, but with amazing warm BL's signature. Thanks for this thread!


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> Here's my story. I've tried to use this scheme with different sources: Macbook Pro and Xiaomi Notebook Pro. Also, I've switched from stock USB cables to AudioQuest Carbon USB-B->C and Furutech GT2 Pro USB-A->B. I'd say, Windows loses in everything. With Macbook I've got quality increase for sure, but I'd say, it's 15% maximum. So if I were you I'd switch from PC to Apple device. This will help you even more. And of course, use a proper app like Audirvana. Now I have a very detailed sound, even more detailed than stock iDSD micro Signature, but with amazing warm BL's signature. Thanks for this thread!


Thanks for your feedback. So, OS does make a difference, doesn't it  ?


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## Chamade

I am sad to see all the posts which say the Signature lost the Black Label warmth and stage. I have an open-box non-returnable Signature coming friday. Was hoping it’d be an upgrade to the Black Label. 😕

I drive all my stuff from the iPad via battery power so doubt these USB reclockers would make a difference.


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## Condocondor (May 12, 2021)

UPDATE:  Received my Schitt Asgard today and am using the iDSD BL + iGalvanic + iPurifier3 as the DAC.  So, how does the very hefty Asgard 3 stack up against the BL's amp?  Well, I find it extremely interesting that the Asgard3 does sound pretty close to the BL's amp but in the end--no cigar.  The BL's amp sounds more detailed.  Why would that be?  Asgard's a massive transformer should be superior to BL's dynamics except it isn't.  Well, the BL has a battery which is cleaner than the AC powered Asgard perhaps?   And the iDSD requires no RCA cables between it's DAC and it's AMP (obviously).  So the Asgard's poorer showing is the RCA cables ??  Maybe the iDSD BL has a poor RCA output stage which would knee cap it's DAC's performance running into a 2nd party amplifier like Asgard 3?  Well, I've ordered the S.M.S.L SU-9 DAC and it's due here this Thursday.  I'll be connecting the SU-9 to the Asgard3 this Friday and comparing it to my iDSD BL.  This should be an interesting experiment.  So far, I'm team iFi Audio all the way.

*UPDATE:  Well, I'm going to embarrass myself here.  It was the Schitt Pyst RCA cables ($20.00) that was the bottleneck.  The Asgard3 pulls into the lead over the iDSD BL by a whisker.  When I switched to a higher-end pair of Silver RCA cables ($200) between the iDSD BL and the Asgard3 the tables turned and the Asgard3 is on top in most ways.  Rookie mistakes reviewing gear.  I've learned something here.  But, it effectively makes the Asgard 3 cost $400 to beat the iDSD BL amp section by a whisker.  We must factor this cost into the equation.  Now, I must do some very careful listening to determine, specifically, what and why the Asgard3 is superior in a way I can even explain it.  Not sure I can pull that off.*


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## Condocondor

Chamade said:


> I am sad to see all the posts which say the Signature lost the Black Label warmth and stage. I have an open-box non-returnable Signature coming friday. Was hoping it’d be an upgrade to the Black Label. 😕
> 
> I drive all my stuff from the iPad via battery power so doubt these USB reclockers would make a difference.


Don't be sad yet.  Many people prefer the Signature's cleaner sound. Let YOUR ears decide.  You won't lose much on the Signature if you resell it.  If my next experiment doesn't work out, I might be interested in trying your Signature out? The idea is to have fun.  Most people say the Signature is fantastic.


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## Chamade

Condocondor said:


> UPDATE:  Received my Schitt Asgard today and am using the iDSD BL + iGalvanic + iPurifier3 as the DAC.  So, how does the very hefty Asgard 3 stack up against the BL's amp?  Well, I find it extremely interesting that the Asgard3 does sound pretty close to the BL's amp but in the end--no cigar.  The BL's amp sounds more detailed.  Why would that be?  Asgard's a massive transformer should be superior to BL's dynamics except it isn't.  Well, the BL has a battery which is cleaner than the AC powered Asgard perhaps?   And the iDSD requires no RCA cables between it's DAC and it's AMP (obviously).  So the Asgard's poorer showing is the RCA cables ??  Maybe the iDSD BL has a poor RCA output stage which would knee cap it's DAC's performance running into a 2nd party amplifier like Asgard 3?  Well, I've ordered the S.M.S.L SU-9 DAC and it's due here this Thursday.  I'll be connecting the SU-9 to the Asgard3 this Friday and comparing it to my iDSD BL.  This should be an interesting experiment.  So far, I'm team iFi Audio all the way.



This echoes my experience, except replace the Asgard with the Singxer SA-1. Class A dynamics, fullness and smoothness, but at the end of the day I miss the BL sparkle and detail.

I also had the SU-9 and sent it back last week, my ears actually preferred the BL’s DAC. Extremely subtle difference, if any,  anyway.


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## Condocondor

Chamade said:


> This echoes my experience, except replace the Asgard with the Singxer SA-1. Class A dynamics, fullness and smoothness, but at the end of the day I miss the BL sparkle and detail.
> 
> I also had the SU-9 and sent it back last week, my ears actually preferred the BL’s DAC. Extremely subtle difference, if any,  anyway.


OMG!  Seriously?  I was going to try the Asgard3 first then the Jotenheim2.....then the Singxer.  Oh man.........


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## Condocondor

Chamade said:


> This echoes my experience, except replace the Asgard with the Singxer SA-1. Class A dynamics, fullness and smoothness, but at the end of the day I miss the BL sparkle and detail.
> 
> I also had the SU-9 and sent it back last week, my ears actually preferred the BL’s DAC. Extremely subtle difference, if any,  anyway.


I hear the Singxer amp sounds significantly better with the jumpers installed.


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## Chamade

Condocondor said:


> I hear the Singxer amp sounds significantly better with the jumpers installed.


That reminds me to look into the DC jumper mod. Will give it a shot, really had high hopes for this amp and initially I was blown away…but after going back to the BL my initial reaction was ohhh, the detail (mostly in the treble) is back. The SA-1 really smoothed out the detail too much.


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## Condocondor (May 11, 2021)

Chamade said:


> That reminds me to look into the DC jumper mod. Will give it a shot, really had high hopes for this amp and initially I was blown away…but after going back to the BL my initial reaction was ohhh, the detail (mostly in the treble) is back. The SA-1 really smoothed out the detail too much.


Yes, a reviewer compared the Jotenheim2 with the Singxer SA-1 and found the SA-1 superior only by a hair.  Then after he installed the jumpers, he said the Singxer was at a whole other level higher than the Jot2 and clearly superior in almost every way.


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## Blasterinn

I have the Sinxter and can attest to it's smoothness and the solid bass or low end control if you will. Have not tried the dc jumper mod.
I am using the Topping D70S as a dac.


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## iFi audio

Condocondor said:


> UPDATE: Well, I'm going to embarrass myself here. It was the Schitt Pyst RCA cables ($20.00) that was the bottleneck. The Asgard3 pulls into the lead over the iDSD BL by a whisker. When I switched to a higher-end pair of Silver RCA cables ($200) between the iDSD BL and the Asgard3 the tables turned and the Asgard3 is on top in most ways. Rookie mistakes reviewing gear. I've learned something here. But, it effectively makes the Asgard 3 cost $400 to beat the iDSD BL amp section by a whisker. We must factor this cost into the equation. Now, I must do some very careful listening to determine, specifically, what and why the Asgard3 is superior in a way I can even explain it. Not sure I can pull that off.



Thanks for your feedback, it's highly entertaining and informative 

And yes, cables matter!


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## Chamade

Condocondor said:


> Yes, a reviewer compared the Jotenheim2 with the Singxer SA-1 and found the SA-1 superior only by a hair.  Then after he installed the jumpers, he said the Singxer was at a whole other level higher than the Jot2 and clearly superior in almost every way.



I think I will skip the jumper mod since I’d have to break the warranty seal and also a little scared for my headphones.
Will return it or sell it here. Sticking to my transportable iFi/Dethonray setup and will probably put my money towards a pair of HE1000SE if I come across a sweet used deal.


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## iFi audio

Chamade said:


> will probably put my money towards a pair of HE1000SE



That's a good idea, those are great cans.


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## Condocondor

Keeping my iDSD BL and using it as a DAC into the Schitt Asgard 3 is a nice upgrade that only cost me $200 and sounds fantastic.  It preserves the iDSD BL's strengths which are it's Burr Brown chips yet preserves the warmth and general tonality of the iDSD BL.  You get better dynamics, sound stage, and detail and it still sounds luscious.  That is what I've concluded.  Don't sell your iDSD BL......take it with you into your next system!


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## iFi audio

Condocondor said:


> Keeping my iDSD BL and using it as a DAC into the Schitt Asgard 3 is a nice upgrade that only cost me $200 and sounds fantastic. It preserves the iDSD BL's strengths which are it's Burr Brown chips yet preserves the warmth and general tonality of the iDSD BL. You get better dynamics, sound stage, and detail and it still sounds luscious. That is what I've concluded. Don't sell your iDSD BL......take it with you into your next system!



Those are wise words. It's always good to check how a DAC/amp product (any, not only our stuff  ) works only as a DAC or amp if possible.


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## Chamade

Resurrecting this thread to mention how after using the Signature for weeks with the Arya I started becoming very sensitive to treble,
almost getting anxiety every time when I'd listen to a song with prominent highs.
Then went back to the Black Label...and damn...the sweet buttery warmth is back. No replacement for the Black Label!
iFi, please don't stop making warm transportable amps/dacs...they are necessary for us Hifiman users.


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## squadgazzz (Jun 8, 2021)

Chamade said:


> they are necessary for us Hifiman users.


I totally agree with your statement except for the last part. I'm not a Hifiman user at all but I've also found BL much more enjoyable compared to Signature/Diablo.


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## Condocondor

Chamade said:


> Resurrecting this thread to mention how after using the Signature for weeks with the Arya I started becoming very sensitive to treble,
> almost getting anxiety every time when I'd listen to a song with prominent highs.
> Then went back to the Black Label...and damn...the sweet buttery warmth is back. No replacement for the Black Label!
> iFi, please don't stop making warm transportable amps/dacs...they are necessary for us Hifiman users.





squadgazzz said:


> I totally agree with your statement except for the last part. I'm not a Hifiman user at all but I've also found BL much more enjoyable compared to Signature/Diablo.


Me three.  I've tried using another DAC only to return to my Black Label.  At this point, with the other DAC, I may see fit to acquire a Schitt Loki+ and use equalization.  It appears the Black Label is like a crack addiction.


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## iFi audio

Chamade said:


> iFi, please don't stop making warm transportable amps/dacs...they are necessary for us Hifiman users.



Oiur house sound will remain within the same spectrum, don't worry  



Condocondor said:


> It appears the Black Label is like a crack addiction.



A healthy addiction it is then


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## squadgazzz (Jun 17, 2021)

I've finally got iUSB 3.0 + Gemini 2.0. Going to test it with and without iGalvanic. Then will see if I still need iGalvanic in the scheme or if I should cop an iRack.  
Behold, the monster... 





Also, I think I need to compare it with Pro iDSD.


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> e finally got iUSB 3.0 + Gemini 2.0. Going to test it with and without iGalvanic. Then will see if I still need iGalvanic in the scheme or if I should cop an iRack.
> Behold, the monster...
> 
> 
> ...



It is a monster indeed! But are you using iPurifier and iUSB3.0 at the same time?


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## squadgazzz

iFi audio said:


> It is a monster indeed! But are you using iPurifier and iUSB3.0 at the same time?


I use iPurifier only like a USB-B to USB-A adapter. Have no idea why USB-A female is used in BL.


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> Have no idea why USB-A female is used in BL.



The product was designed as a transportable device meant to work with smarthphones, and its USB inpup accepts Apple's CCK perfectly 

In short, this was done for mechanical reliability.


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## squadgazzz

Well, few days after I have to admit that iGalvanic brings very minor changes over iUSB. I personally can't even consider these changes as improvements. It gives a bit better bass control and a less relaxed sound(more technical, like with iDSD Signature). Comparing iGalvanic and iUSB as separate standalone solutions, I'd say they both are great and brings iDSD micro BL to a completely new level. iUSB would give you more energy and air than iGalvanic but you will also lose transportability.
So for everyone I would suggest three options:
A. iGalvanic + iPurifier for those who really need transportability
B. iUSB + iPurifier if you need TOTL solution with warm sound
C. iGalvanic + iUSB + iPurifier for TOTL warm and more technical sound

I haven't decided yet to keep or sell iGalvanic, but swapping iGalvanic+Mercury3.0+Gemini2.0 to Gemini3.0 sound more attractive to me


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> Well, few days after I have to admit that iGalvanic brings very minor changes over iUSB.



It depends on a setup really. In some scenarios iGalvanic3.0 on top of iUSB3.0 is barely audible, but in many cases it's a significant step up, especially with pricey desktop setups. The more revealing it is (and the more noisy USB line), the more pronounced their combined effect will be. Thanks for your input!


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## Condocondor (Jun 23, 2021)

squadgazzz said:


> C. iGalvanic + iUSB + iPurifier for TOTL warm and more technical sound


It's going to take a lot to unseat this setup from a stand alone DAC.  The nice thing is that if you ever do upgrade your DAC, you can take your iUSB and iGalvanic with you.  You should have been able to take the iPurifier3 out of your chain with the iUSB in there.  Did you try that?  And if you want to keep everything, I'd recommend the iRack from iFi Audio for $169.


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## iFi audio (Jun 23, 2021)

Condocondor said:


> The nice thing is that if you ever do upgrade your DAC, you can take your iUSB and iGalvanic with you.



That's true. USB reclockers, galvanic isolators and cables will remain relevant as long as there are DACs with USB inputs subject to improvements


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## squadgazzz (Jun 24, 2021)

Condocondor said:


> You should have been able to take the iPurifier3 out of your chain with the iUSB in there. Did you try that?


Why should I do that? There is no USB-B to A good quality converter exists on the market. Using Gemini2.0 with a $5 converter is nonsense.


Condocondor said:


> It's going to take a lot to unseat this setup from a stand alone DAC. The nice thing is that if you ever do upgrade your DAC, you can take your iUSB and iGalvanic with you.


I would switch this setup to a desktop solution only. And I'm sure there won't be any similar to iDSD micro BL solutions. Especially according to IFI's latest transportable products like Signature and Diablo.


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## iFi audio

squadgazzz said:


> Why should I do that? There is no USB-B to A good quality converter exists on the market. Using Gemini2.0 with a $5 converter is nonsense.
> 
> I would switch this setup to a desktop solution only. And I'm sure there won't be any similar to iDSD micro BL solutions. Especially according to IFI's latest transportable products like Signature and Diablo.



As far as TOTL transportable DAC/amps go, we're happy about our current roster


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## vonspanky

I have an idsd sig, zen dac/can and an RME ADI-2 on my desk. There’s slight differences between them but it’s not huge.
I would save your money and buy more/better headphones as they impact the sound more than dacs.


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## iFi audio

vonspanky said:


> I would save your money and buy more/better headphones as they impact the sound more than dacs.



That's true. Headphones/speakers influence sound the most. But having them leaves room to dig into amps and DACs.


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## squadgazzz

vonspanky said:


> I have an idsd sig, zen dac/can and an RME ADI-2 on my desk. There’s slight differences between them but it’s not huge.
> I would save your money and buy more/better headphones as they impact the sound more than dacs.


That doesn't work in case you’ve already found your headphones or a source. It depends on your sound signature preferences. E.g. For me the only considerable upgrade would cost me around $2000. iUSB and Gemini cable with total price $500 gave me much more improvements for this amount of money.


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## Stevko

Anyone tried itube? Need som flavour and a DAC for my xCAN


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## Condocondor

Stevko said:


> Anyone tried itube? Need som flavour and a DAC for my xCAN


Yes, I have the iTube2 and it's fantastic for a 2 channel system as in my office.  It really opens up the sound stage and has much more defined bass and naturalness overall.  I wasn't impressed much with my headphone system.


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## iFi audio

Condocondor said:


> Yes, I have the iTube2 and it's fantastic for a 2 channel system as in my office.



Affirmative, works great with speakers


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## JvH26

I own the Micro iDSD (non-BL) and iPurifier 3 (I have heard a BL on multiple occasions too). I use a decent Supra cable with them to power my Hifiman Arya (V1). I read through this whole thread but I am still not sure what to think. I myself am also very curious whether a true desktop setup would beat my current setup by a significant margin. 

I use my Micro iDSD on high gain (turbo mode) to drive the Arya and I do like the sound. I have been looking into various options: Gustard H16 + X16, Topping D90 + A90, Schiit Magnius + Modius, or instead iDSD BL + iUSB 3.0 + Gemini (I found a set for a good price locally). I am also interested in trying my Arya's balanced.

I also read here that some people just purchase an AMP and use the BL as a DAC, I'm very interested in a more detailed comparison. Curious if you have any recommendations for me!


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## iFi audio

JvH26 said:


> I own the Micro iDSD (non-BL) and iPurifier 3 (I have heard a BL on multiple occasions too). I use a decent Supra cable with them to power my Hifiman Arya (V1). I read through this whole thread but I am still not sure what to think. I myself am also very curious whether a true desktop setup would beat my current setup by a significant margin.
> 
> I use my Micro iDSD on high gain (turbo mode) to drive the Arya and I do like the sound. I have been looking into various options: Gustard H16 + X16, Topping D90 + A90, Schiit Magnius + Modius, or instead iDSD BL + iUSB 3.0 + Gemini (I found a set for a good price locally). I am also interested in trying my Arya's balanced.
> 
> I also read here that some people just purchase an AMP and use the BL as a DAC, I'm very interested in a more detailed comparison. Curious if you have any recommendations for me!



Let me first ask whether you're after a desktop setup, or do you consider transportable products only? Thanks!


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## JvH26

Transportability is definitely no must for me, it has been nice with the Micro iDSD but I don't plan on moving a lot with my Arya.


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## iFi audio

JvH26 said:


> Transportability is definitely no must for me, it has been nice with the Micro iDSD but I don't plan on moving a lot with my Arya.



A major step up over the original micro iDSD would be either micro iDSD Signature (a touch warm and full-bodied sound) or micro iDSD Diablo (more quick and leaner sound). For desktop usage you might want to read about our ZEN range; ZEN CAN and ZEN DAC. These fully balanced products combined together would do a lot of good to your Aryas.


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## JvH26

JvH26 said:


> Transportability is definitely no must for me, it has been nice with the Micro iDSD but I don't plan on moving a lot with my Arya.


I went with the Gustard X-16 DAC and THX AAA 789 AMP. So far after approximately 1 day of listening, I am very satisfied. Definitely a significant upgrade .


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## iFi audio

JvH26 said:


> So far after approximately 1 day of listening, I am very satisfied. Definitely a significant upgrade .



As long as you're happy about your purchase, nothing else matters and that's the most important part! Enjoy


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