# P4 the Warbler a new portable amp from iBasso . . first impression pg 3 . images Pg 6&7  . . .



## jamato8

I got a little bit of information about this amp. It will run at 12.6 volts and there will be a new op amp kit as it will be op amp rollable of course. 
   
  I am trying to find out more information. 
   
  Single or dual op amps
   
  Room to stack buffers
   
  Black or dull silver
   
  Alps volume control and vishay resistors. 
   
  The top have comes off for easy access to the op amps and buffers


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## volume

That is some some nice power generaltion, anything more like pics.


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## Randius

Previously the PB1 & DB1, followed by D12 and now P4. We are definitely spoilt for choices! Will we be seeing a successor to the T3/T3D?


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## T.IIZUKA

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> It will run at *12.6 volts* and there will be a new op amp kit as it will be op amp rollable of course.
> 
> *Black or dull silver*
> 
> Alps volume control and *vishay resistors*.


 

 This can be expected !


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## paulybatz

Ibasso is pushing the envelope...these are exciting times...the amps of today are lightyears ahead of just 5 years ago.  I do not think that anyone can keep up with this little company's progress.  I look forward to this new amp!


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## music185

I'm excited about these too. Emailed them to ask if it can handle an AKG K701 and was told that it has a high output power that can handle them. Guess we'll find out once released and my brother has enough to order one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Also, was told that it would be $245 plus shipping. Price is not bad at all.


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## 120717

Ooh I'm excited. I had a P3+ and liked it...but I never played with opamps much because I found the options confusing.
  I also hadn't heard of the topkits available for the iBasso amps. This leaves me wondering what this amp will be capable of with upgraded omamps compared to the default config. P3+ I had.
   
  (Subscribing to this thread)
   
  Does anyone know if you can use ERS paper in iBasso amps? I've heard it blocks electrical interference somehow, which might be nice because I had issues with my P3+ picking up stuff from my phone...


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## paulybatz

It may even be out this week!!!
   
  The opamps swapping is a great option, customize the sound for each can you may be using it for...I know that Hiflight's set I bought for the D4 really opened the soundstage and details, it reduced battery life a smidge but it was well worth the tradeoff IMHO.
   
  I look forward to my new toy, now I have to decide on a new set of cans too! Though the HD650s are hard to take off my head these days!


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## 120717

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> It may even be out this week!!!
> 
> The opamps swapping is a great option, customize the sound for each can you may be using it for...I know that Hiflight's set I bought for the D4 really opened the soundstage and details, it reduced battery life a smidge but it was well worth the tradeoff IMHO.
> 
> I look forward to my new toy, now I have to decide on a new set of cans too! Though the HD650s are hard to take off my head these days!


 
  Well Hiflight's stuff improves the amps in some way, that'd be for any opamp-swappable amp, and was a feature in the P3+.
  What I want to know is how it improves on the P3+ other than the case and the higher voltage battery.


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## isao2k8

P4 is available now @ 245USD.


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## Mad Max

P3's successor?


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## charlie0904

Hi guys,how does the 12.6v affect sound? Seems like amps are sporting 12v design n also up to 24v in balance mode.

 Opamp kits looks good for the p4.


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## furyagain

My god,,,
   
  did i see it right???
  600mW+600mW into 32Ω
   
  oo boy
http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=67


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## 120717

@furyagain "600mW+600mW into 32Ω" The little kid in me is saying HEY THAT'S A BIG NUMBER, but I don't know what the specs are for the P3+....
   
  This amp appears to come with different opamps?
  Any battery life info?
  What impedance cans will it drive (well)? I've read about the Arrow which apparently drives the HD650, 600ohm phone aswell as IEMs (without hiss!).
   
  They have listed higher battery voltage, it's bigger/heavier and has that output but I want to know what actually changed inside other than the battery...
   
  Honestly I may quite prefer the P3+ finish...it glistens under bright light...this is matte?
  Do I only get one case with the P4? The P3+ only let you change the case but not the end plates but I see two versions.
  Currently undecided which P4 finish I prefer.


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## jamato8

I have been trying to keep up with this but didn't realize the power capabilities of this amp. The buffer and op amp kit is fairly extensive as well. 
   
  3 and 4 channel, which should be fun. I find the 4 channel done correctly, can open up the soundstage. 
   

   
  The image is from the iBasso site.


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## Mad Max

1.2 watts?  O_o'


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## furyagain

Can someone explain why this one is more expensive then the PB1??


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## 120717

Quote: 





furyagain said:


> Can someone explain why this one is more expensive then the PB1??


 

 Good point actually. If this has half as many channels but costs more (more than twice as much per channel), then what are we supposed to expect is the better amp?
  I'm a a quality over quantity person which makes it hard for me to understand this.


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## jamato8

I would think the op amp kit would add value. 
   
  OPAMP rolling kit. (includes AD797*2, OPA604*2, TLE2141 Class A*2, BUF634P WB*2, BUF634U*2, Transistor BUF*2, and LMH6655, Dummy adapter*4)


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## Trysaeder

It's a dedicated amp?
 More powuh of course.
 I've always dismissed ibasso as a whole because none of their products were really practical for me. The big portable a,ps with their 5 batteries and tiny run time really made me doubt if they were intended to be portable at all, I mean, I could shove a 24v and my m3 into an iPad sized case and it would be portable and I'd be sure that the sound is good. Rsa is very overpriced for their functionality, you're mostly paying fr premium parts and the brand.
 Now the p4 with a rechargeable battery and pure amp is piquing my interest, though I continue to doubt the necessity of a portable amp. Now that I have an iPad, portable dacamps are a possibility.


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## 120717

.


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I would think the op amp kit would add value.
> 
> OPAMP rolling kit. (includes AD797*2, OPA604*2, TLE2141 Class A*2, BUF634P WB*2, BUF634U*2, Transistor BUF*2, and LMH6655, Dummy adapter*4)


 
  iBasso has chosen to include an excellent rolling kit containingl very high-quality devices;  this can easily account for the difference in cost between the Toucan and the P4.   In addition, the circuitry is more complex with the choice of 3 and 4 channel ground architecture. 
   
  I am anticipating that for those individuals who do not need a built-in DAC or balanced output, the P4 will prove to be an excellent performer.  It is really bridging the many of the differences between desktops and portables, combining many of the best features of both.
   
  I am looking forward to putting the P4 through some stringent testing and comparison with my desktop!


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## paulybatz

Im looking forward to listening to this amp...going to feed it with the boomslang too!


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> Im looking forward to listening to this amp...going to feed it with the boomslang too!


 

 Pauly...
  How are you planning to do that?   The Boomslang only outputs a balanced signal and the P4 only accepts SE input.


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## jamato8

Seems it would take a bit of surgery to do that with the Boomslang. I am not sure it would be worth. 
   
  HiFlight,
   
  Yes, that is one area that I really find exciting is the 3 and 4 channel grounding. I like 4 channel but often there is DC bleed through but if done right, as I mentioned above, the sound to my ear is more open and in addition I often find it a little more dynamic with better detail separation.


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## sparktography

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


>


 
   
  It's beautiful in its simplicity. I'm curious what the back layer of that board looks like.
   
  With so many opamps it's understandable why they didn't list battery life as different combinations would result in different drain, but I'd be interested to hear rough times once someone actually gets their hands on one.


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## estreeter

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Pauly...
> How are you planning to do that?   The Boomslang only outputs a balanced signal and the P4 only accepts SE input.


 

 Love your work


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## paulybatz

My warbler is on the way!!!
  I have a balanced to SE mini IC someone very nice on head-fi made me to use just for this purpose!
  I never have problems with Battery times...I mainly use my amps in a stationary sense...those LION packs are pretty good...


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## sparktography

Lion batteries are good for a while, but my concern with them over rechargables is when the battery goes dead in a year will I be able to get a replacement. It was one of the key reasons I went with the D4 - I can use NiCad or Alkaline batteries in it and never need to worry about replacements.
  Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> My warbler is on the way!!!
> I have a balanced to SE mini IC someone very nice on head-fi made me to use just for this purpose!
> I never have problems with Battery times...I mainly use my amps in a stationary sense...those LION packs are pretty good...


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## Mad Max

A year?
  Why so quickly?


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## sparktography

I've never had good luck with rechargables. I'm not very good at keeping them properly maintained. 
  
  Quote: 





mad max said:


> A year?
> Why so quickly?


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## Trysaeder

There's no such thing as maintenance for Li ion batteries. Perhaps you're just banging around too much.


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## sparktography

I baby my gear! I've just never had a laptop or cell battery last longer than a year and a half. With a fresh battery though I keep things a really long time.


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## 120717

Things I'm interested in reading comparisons of the iBasso P4 against:
 Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G
  iBasso D12/P3+
  Meier STEPDANCE
  Pico amp
  RSA P-51/SR-71A
   
  I will have to be patient


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## paulybatz

WOW...I think UPS does a better job shipping from China, than across the US!

   
  Just about all Il get to tonight...very nicely packaged as always and a nice little plastic case for the opamp kit! FUN! HASTA MANANA!


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## estreeter

Quote: 





p4z said:


> Things I'm interested in reading comparisons of the iBasso P4 against:
> Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G
> iBasso D12/P3+
> Meier STEPDANCE
> ...


 
   
  I'm particularly interested in battery life comparisons across the various amps. Getting an amp for a little over $200 is great, but not so great when you spend $300+ on 9-volt batteries over the 12 months of ownership. Perhaps the guy who wrote the infamous 'getting out of portable audio - its all too silly' thread had a point after all.


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## HiFlight

So far out of the box,  I find the P4 to be one of iBasso's best amplifier efforts yet.  The tonality and harmonics of voices and instruments is very accurate.  Balance throughout the audio spectrum is excellent, with no sibilance and no overemphasis of either highs or lows which permit the mids to be presented clearly and naturally.   (And I haven't even opened the case yet!)  
   
  If your amp needs do not require a built-in DAC, and you are looking for desktop-like performance in a customizable portable amplifier, the P4 should be on your short list!
   
  I am continually amazed at the levels to which iBasso have taken portable technology.


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## estreeter

Ron, is it premature to ask for a comparison with the D4 ? I know it gets old to be asked to compare a new amp with everything else out there, but I seem to recall that you spent an especially long time listening to the D4.


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## HiFlight

I haven't yet rolled any of the opamps in the rolling kit so probably my opinion of the P4 is a bit premature but out of the box with only a couple of hours of listening, it is my impression that the amp section of the P4, under the most challenging of musical inputs, will outperform the D4.  It is very likely that the P4 will prove to have the best amplifier section of any iBasso yet produced. 
   
  As the P4 outputs significantly more power than the D4, it is capable of driving phones that require large amounts of voltage and current to higher levels prior to clipping than can the D4.   This is largely due to the more robust power supply and the fact that iBasso designed this to be a premium amplifier, with no circuitry bells or whistles to add color to the SQ.   It is what it is....a very high-quality basic amplifier that significantly narrows the gap between portables and desktops. 
   
  With most IEMs and easily-driven phones plus reasonable volume levels, the D4 is still a capable performer.  The P4 just takes things to a different level of competence.


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## estreeter

Thanks Ron - interesting times indeed.


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## gtoviper

Hey Ron, so if one already owns D4/D10/D12, you think it's a worthy upgrade considering the P4's amping abilities?
   
  I'm guessing if anything it'll be an awesome combo with D12's dual DAC section. I'm also curious what the P4's sound signature is like, more specifically in comparison to the D12 in the areas of: Bright/Dark, Details, Instrument Seperation, and Soundstage.
   
  Also, a quick comment on how it compares to the D12+Topkit.
   
  Really appreciate it!


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## paulybatz

I have done a little preliminary listening myself and am totally wowed...I could not resist, its late but she was definitely calling me.
  Its definitely way to early to do A/B comparisons, but it sounds amazing, the fit/finish and the quality of the components being used by IBASSO are top notch.  I know she is going to sound better but it is hard to believe...I was feeding her a little Scofield via Sony Single Well CD player and my Silver IC.
  Time to go to sleep, though I wish to keep listening.  One thing I like to do is to actually listen to amps while they burn in, some run them while they sleep, etc...I prefer to hear the subtle, yet profound changes in the separation and soundstage.
  Cheers to Ibasso with another home run!
  These are incredible times for head-fi!!!!


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





gtoviper said:


> Hey Ron, so if one already owns D4/D10/D12, you think it's a worthy upgrade considering the P4's amping abilities?
> 
> I'm guessing if anything it'll be an awesome combo with D12's dual DAC section. I'm also curious what the P4's sound signature is like, more specifically in comparison to the D12 in the areas of: Bright/Dark, Details, Instrument Seperation, and Soundstage.
> 
> ...


 

 It is difficult, if not impossible, to compare the P4 to the D12, as the possible combinations of opamps that are available in the rolling kit will make significant differences in the SQ of the P4.
   
  It will be possible to configure the P4 so as to sound nearly identical to the D10 Topkit, as iBasso has chosen to include the D10 Topkit L/R Class A module in the P4 rolling kit.   As I stated previously, iBasso has included a really fine selection of premium audio opamps in the supplied rolling kit.  The opamps in the kit will most certainly do justice to the quality of the P4 circuitry.
   
  I think the choice between the D12 and P4 will boil down to whether or not one needs the optical, coax, and usb inputs of the D12 or would prefer the more customizable P4 and be limited to  Aux input only. 
   
  For use with the more difficult-to-drive cans, or for those who choose to listen at head-banging volume levels, the P4 is probably the wiser choice.


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## sparktography

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> It is difficult, if not impossible, to compare the P4 to the D12, as the possible combinations of opamps that are available in the rolling kit will make significant differences in the SQ of the P4.
> 
> It will be possible to configure the P4 so as to sound nearly identical to the D10 Topkit, as iBasso has chosen to include my Topkit L/R Class A module in the P4 rolling kit.   As I stated previously, iBasso has included a really fine selection of premium audio opamps in the supplied rolling kit.  The opamps in the kit will most certainly do justice to the quality of the P4 circuitry.


 

 Ron's opamp selections are clearly ahead of their time


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





sparktography said:


> Ron's opamp selections are clearly ahead of their time


 

 The D12 Topkit is now completed and includes 2 sets of L/R opamps + buffers.  This should improve compatiblity when using different music genres and different headphones or IEMs.


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## gtoviper

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> It is difficult, if not impossible, to compare the P4 to the D12, as the possible combinations of opamps that are available in the rolling kit will make significant differences in the SQ of the P4.
> 
> It will be possible to configure the P4 so as to sound nearly identical to the D10 Topkit, as iBasso has chosen to include the D10 Topkit L/R Class A module in the P4 rolling kit.   As I stated previously, iBasso has included a really fine selection of premium audio opamps in the supplied rolling kit.  The opamps in the kit will most certainly do justice to the quality of the P4 circuitry.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the reply Ron, looking forward to trying out the D12 Topkit.
   
  The P4 amp + D12 DAC should rock most if not all the phones for sure.


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## HiFlight

Yes, the P4 is about as close to a quality desktop as any portable that I have heard.  
   
  I spent most of the day today experimenting with the P4.   I will likely have a supplemental Topkit for it soon.  Using my balanced SA5000s with a SE adapter for comparisions, I have found one combination of opamps that delivers about the same SQ from both the D12 and P4.  I don't think I could reliably tell them apart in blind comparisons.


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## zero7525

600mW per channel..
 What the F, has this ever been done on a portable amp of this size?
 That's amazing.


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## paulybatz

zero7525 said:


> 600mW per channel..
> 
> What the F, has this ever been done on a portable amp of this size?
> 
> That's amazing.







 I don't think so...if it has, not like this...it's amazing the point were at here with the head-fi hobby. 
 When I first started this wild ride several years ago...I remember being amazed by a dozen amps that today would be paperweights, I didn't think things could get better. A big name, which shall remain nameless said you could never get as high quality amp as theirs in the 250 range...and I also at that time came across a tiny little company called ibasso and gave them a try as I couldn't afford the other amp...all I have to say is this little company is not only raising the bar but changing the game totally. 

 Can't wait for Rons topkit for the P4 as the one he put together for the D4 changed that amp from excellent to profound


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## jamato8

Yes, you are getting into a nice voltage range and current. So now you are getting both from a portable and that is what will make this a very distinctive amp, for a while. ;^)


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## paulybatz

You are not kidding Jam!
  I have never heard my Ultrasone 750s sound so full, the deepness and range of this amp out of the box is simply amazing
   
  ...Im streaming Pandora as I type via my DB1 Boomslang (using a nice DIY IC)...little OAR and Dispatch, lucky to get some live songs, was at a concert last night and feel like Im right there on stage, cant wait for this little gal to burn in!!!


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## Mad Max

Awesome.  Keep those impressions coming.


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## jamato8

Woo hoo, I got a package today. I am letting the Warbler warm but already very dynamic and clean. I have to go along with what HiFlight said earlier. 
   
  The options for op amps is great to and to have all those included. 
   
  Damn, this has to be the best amp they have produced. Guitar really sings. . Well more time to digest this but I can "hear" the drive capabilities of the amp. I want to try out the transistor boards that are supplied. It will be interesting to compare this to the fi.Q, which I find to be excellent.


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## flargosa

Can anybody comment on how this compares to the Minibox E+?


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## jamato8

The Warbler is just out so I don't imagine it is in too many hands as of yet. 
   
  Now the amp is going through some growing pains. The bass is bloated, like a once a month thing, and a bit to punchy in the upper mids. I need to go do something else any so I will let it play on without me. :^)


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## Armaegis

Isn't 4 channel used for balanced inputs?


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## jamato8

Quote: 





armaegis said:


> Isn't 4 channel used for balanced inputs?


 

 No, it is the grounding technique that this alludes to. Many times in 4 channel you can get some DC but if done right it can work very well.


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## estreeter

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Yes, the P4 is about as close to a quality desktop as any portable that I have heard.


 
   
  Ron, I value your opinion, but you know that the Lisa III has held that mantle for a considerable amount of time. To be fair, the latter is more 'transportable' than portable, and costs significantly more - it may be an unfair comparison on a gram-for-gram basis.


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## paulybatz

Price does not have anything to do with things here...
  LISA was one of the only amps that could drive all cans, not the only one anymore...and the size of the P4 is much more attractive.
  This little amp, and it IS tiny next to the LISAIII, sounds great out of the box, have to wait for more impressions as I spend time with her, with the option to roll OPAMPS is a no brainer here
   
  This amp is extremely powerful...and its not just power, its powerful and refined with very little burn in, which says a lot.
  The bass is very rich and deep out of the box, which says a lot to me too...another thing to note is the volume pot...they have used the highest quality components in this little amp and it shows...I havnt undressed her yet, just wanted to go on a few more dates first 
   


  
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Ron, I value your opinion, but you know that the Lisa III has held that mantle for a considerable amount of time. To be fair, the latter is more 'transportable' than portable, and costs significantly more - it may be an unfair comparison on a gram-for-gram basis.


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## jamato8

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> ..I havnt undressed her yet, just wanted to go on a few more dates first


 
  It took me a minute. That was a good one. lol


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## NanoBodhisatta

HiFlight, does it means that if I am going to buy P4 there is no need to buy a D12 Topkit as it is already included in the P4 stock opamp rolling kit.


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## jamato8

I just installed the transistor buffers. What a kick. They put out about 1000mA and do get hot but the sound is totally efforstless. As always, I need time to decide if the sound settles where I like or not but the options are fun.


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## paulybatz

The bass is definitely punchy and full...my 750 pro ultrasones are a different headphone with this amp...no issues driving the HD650s either, bit have a new found love for the 750s


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## CEE TEE

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> I just installed the transistor buffers. What a kick. They put out about 1000mA and do get hot but the sound is totally efforstless. As always, I need time to decide if the sound settles where I like or not but the options are fun.


 

 Hi Jamato,
   
  My P4 should be in tonight, are these transistor buffers that come in the P4 stock rolling kit?
   
  Thanks!


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## sparktography

I'm starting to get sick of dragging my D4 Topkit to and from work every day, not to mention worrying I'm going to break it in transit. Every time this P4 thread pops up I get more and more tempted to get one so I can have a headphone amp both at home and at work.
   
  If only I had limitless money


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## HiFlight

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jamato8 said:
> ...


 


  The P4 rolling kit includes 2 each of the following buffers:  BUF634, BUF634 Hi-C, Transistor buffer.


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## estreeter

Anyone using the D10/D12 as DAC into the P4 ? On paper, it shapes up as a good office solution, particularly for those with several hundred gigabytes of lossless files sitting on a hard disk.


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## HiFlight

I haven't yet tried that but I will.  I don't think there will be much of an improvement in SQ unless one has very difficult to drive phones that need the extra horsepower that the P4 can deliver.

  
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Anyone using the D10/D12 as DAC into the P4 ? On paper, it shapes up as a good office solution, particularly for those with several hundred gigabytes of lossless files sitting on a hard disk.


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## HiFlight

No, the D12 Topkit is totally different than anything that is in the P4 rolling kit.  I am currently working on the P4 but it will take awhile, as there are so many possible combinations to try with various music genres.   At this point, I am am considering that I might just provide a supplemental kit to the standard rolling kit, as iBasso has already included a pair of my Topkit Class A L-R opamps.
  
  Quote: 





nanobodhisatta said:


> HiFlight, does it means that if I am going to buy P4 there is no need to buy a D12 Topkit as it is already included in the P4 stock opamp rolling kit.


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## CEE TEE

@estreeter...P4 with D12? That's exactly what I'm working on, but stock the P4 just came with low gain and I will have to adjust to bring the power up. I'm new to rolling opamps and buffers so I am going to take my time learning and see if I can use this combo as a mini, transportable rig that I can configure many ways depending upon where I'm going and which phones I am using. I like the weight and size of both iBassos (P4 is smaller) and either amp straps to the Sony X well because the Sony is so small...it has me grinning so far!


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## estreeter

Thanks Cee Tee - exciting times for X owners with the arrival of the $30 Chinese LOD after enthusiasts have been crying out for one for so long.


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## CEE TEE

@estreeter: Thanks to CN11, I have one of those $30 LODs on the way...
   
  If I want something different, I'll have Qusp modify the adapter that they sell for $16.
   
  I'll post that the LOD *works or doesn't work* with X and D12/P4.  
   
  Between P4 (which just arrived today) and D12 I have a lot of chips and learning/listening to do with all this stuff- just in time for a holiday break!
   
  (Music sounds so good right now...the toys are the delivery device but they really add to the experience.)
   
  I appreciate the community here as well!


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## CEE TEE

I'll post pictures of P4 & D12 with Sony X later...I really like either on my desk at work or home.
   
  Now I'll be tempted to bring the big cans back in to work...here I have to say that the MS1s are much lower profile than the MS1i.
   
  And the brushed silver matches my Mac and MS2i perfectly (though *sound quality* would win over coordinated-looking components).
   
  So far, I'm already VERY happy with the new gear.  I want to contribute more back to Head-Fi but I know I haven't learned, listened, and compared enough.
   
  I'll be meeting up with others that can listen to my gear to compare and share though. 
   
  (Ha, I guess I'll be ignorantly happy until I hear Grados through a proper tube amp...)


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## estreeter

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> (Ha, I guess I'll be ignorantly happy until I hear Grados through a proper tube amp...)


 

 The point is that you are *happy*, and you haven't spent 20K+ on audio - keep your hobby in perspective and the music will always come before the gear.


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## Musicdiddy

Could I please ask, for those of you who have got the P4 how long did it take to arrive after you ordered it? I have ordered one and cannot wait to get my hands on it!


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## CEE TEE

^The D12 came so quickly (about 2 days from CN to California) last week and I was so happy with it that I ordered the P4 late Friday and received it yesterday. 
   
  It went out from CN about 1am in the morning Monday our time.
   
  So for me, both items, ridiculously fast.


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## jamato8

I really like the fi.Q and it is the best portable I have heard but what surprises me is how good the P4 is in comparison. While there are certain areas the fi.Q with 18 volts and 1300mws of output shows its strength, as well as openness and finesse in sound, the P4 is right up there. Great bass drive and I have not had it get congested at any time, even with hard driving complex well recorded blues and rock. My source is lossless and 24/96 to the MB-2 dual dac via optical from my MacBook Pro. 
   
  I haven't really explored the capabilities of the P4 yet. I did have it in 4 channel with the buf634 but I don't like that combination. There are some op amps that will work well for the V/G and I need to try that as I like 4 channel for its openness, when done correctly. I am still using the stock op amps and am told that other op amps will open up the P4 even more with greater depth to the sound stage but right now the tuneful bass is just a kick.


----------



## Darkchaser

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> ^The D12 came so quickly (about 2 days from CN to California) last week and I was so happy with it that I ordered the P4 late Friday and received it yesterday.
> 
> It went out from CN about 1am in the morning Monday our time.
> 
> So for me, both items, ridiculously fast.


 

 Hey CEE TEE, since you have the IE8s, can you give some impressions of the P4>IE8 combo? I've been looking for a good amp for the IE8s, and tried the D4 which was awesome. Would be interested to know how well the P4 fares.


----------



## CEE TEE

@Jamato, I am new to rolling so please keep us updated after you have had enough time to experiment and let us know which combinations to try.
   
  I may post a couple of photographs with the P4 rolling kit with a macro lens and number the chips so others can identify what is what and which combinations they are trying.
   
  Ron (HiFlight) color codes his chips so he can communicate the "sets" and you can easily tell which ones he is talking about.  I may do that on the D12 thread as well later so we are all talking about the same things.  Has that been done before anywhere else on Head-Fi?    
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I really like the fi.Q and it is the best portable I have heard but what surprises me is how good the P4 is in comparison. While there are certain areas the fi.Q with 18 volts and 1300mws of output shows its strength, as well as openness and finesse in sound, the P4 is right up there. Great bass drive and I have not had it get congested at any time, even with hard driving complex well recorded blues and rock. My source is lossless and 24/96 to the MB-2 dual dac via optical from my MacBook Pro.
> 
> I haven't really explored the capabilities of the P4 yet. I did have it in 4 channel with the buf634 but I don't like that combination. There are some op amps that will work well for the V/G and I need to try that as I like 4 channel for its openness, when done correctly. I am still using the stock op amps and am told that other op amps will open up the P4 even more with greater depth to the sound stage but right now the tuneful bass is just a kick.


----------



## CEE TEE

@Darkchaser...I have a lot of new gear and will try to get it settled and get to know it so I can share something meaningful with you.
   
  I didn't really get the amps for the IE8 as much as my other phones but I will try to do some comparisons and let you know if I hear any "improvements" to my ears.  But, these amps come with a lot of chips and I am new to testing them out.  I am trying to acclimate myself with the amps as stock first and with my different sources.   Plus, I have been spending more time with full-size Grados as of late.
   
  Which source are you using?
   
  I love the IE8 straight out of the Sony X.  After I get the X LOD I'll try the IE8 and each phone with the amps.  I'm trying harder to configure the amps for PK1, Grados and possibly another large headphone if the P4 really can drive something in the 250-300 ohm range...
   
  With the iPhone, I like the IE8 with the NuForce Icon Mobile.
   
  Later I'll have more info for you... 
   
  Quote: 





darkchaser said:


> Hey CEE TEE, since you have the IE8s, can you give some impressions of the P4>IE8 combo? I've been looking for a good amp for the IE8s, and tried the D4 which was awesome. Would be interested to know how well the P4 fares.


----------



## CEE TEE

Now I have to read "Opamps for Everyone?"

And learn about opamps which keep turning into "pampas" with spell correct when I search.

These things are small but I can read them just well enough without magnification. Looks like the P4 did come stock at 10.5 dB gain...


----------



## Darkchaser

Yeah, it depends largely on the source. With an iPod, my iBasso T3D was required to get a good sound, but with my Fuze it sounded just as good unamped. So I'm kinda looking for an amp that can significantly improve the SQ through a Fuze. The D4 is excellent, but since the P4 is newer I was considering it as well. Having swappable opamps is a great option to have 
  
   
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> @Darkchaser...I have a lot of new gear and will try to get it settled and get to know it so I can share something meaningful with you.
> 
> I didn't really get the amps for the IE8 as much as my other phones but I will try to do some comparisons and let you know if I hear any "improvements" to my ears.  But, these amps come with a lot of chips and I am new to testing them out.  I am trying to acclimate myself with the amps as stock first and with my different sources.   Plus, I have been spending more time with full-size Grados as of late.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rayzilla

Quote: 





> .... The D4 is excellent, but since the P4 is newer I was considering it as well. Having swappable opamps is a great option to have


 
  This is my dilemma too but I also like the DAC ability on the D4 so I am really confused.


----------



## CEE TEE

^Rayzilla...you might want to hold on until more reports come in and more rolling is done on the amps.  It is nice to have the DAC and the optical input on the D12 vs. the P4.
   
  I got the P4 hoping it would be so much more powerful than the D12 that it could really drive bigger phones.  
   
*Maybe when I roll opamps,* it will seem much more powerful than the D12- but it doesn't seem that much more powerful yet (as I hoped the specs would suggest).
   
  I am going to study and play with the P4 but I may just do what HeadphoneAddict has suggested all along:  *buy a desktop amp for larger phones*.  They could use the power (voltage/current and enough swing/headroom).  And an okay desktop amp is about the same price as the P4 (where I am sacrificing power for portability which may be redundant since I have the D12).  Why am I resisting?
   
  Also, I have been told I should concentrate on getting better large phones first anyway.  
   
  I'll be listening to some desktop amps this weekend.
   
*I may keep only the D12 DAC/Amp and use as my:*

 portable amp
 my portable DAC/amp
 my Standalone DAC> optically out of Mac at home> tube desktop amp.
   
  I really love the D12 so far and love music optically out of my Mac.  I will be trying HiFlight's TopKit (probably this weekend).
   
  My plan was to try to have this "mini-stack stereo system" of:   Source>D12>P4  that would take the place of a "life-sized" set-up.


----------



## CEE TEE

Don't have my Sony LOD yet, but:


----------



## CEE TEE

P4 vs. D12:


----------



## jamato8

Excellent images.


----------



## brendon

Anyone have any idea how the P4 compares with the erstwhile P3+ ?


----------



## HiFlight

P4:  Internal lithium battery vs AAA cells, much easier to open for rolling opamps, Topkit LR module included in rolling kit.  SQ comparison depends upon LR/buffer/ground opamp choices for each.
   

  
  Quote: 





brendon said:


> Anyone have any idea how the P4 compares with the erstwhile P3+ ?


----------



## Anaxilus




----------



## tnmike1

How does this physically mate with the iPod Nano--previous generations?? Just sold Tomahawk and am looking for a really good replacement amp


----------



## CEE TEE

*That is the Stock Rolling Kit!*


----------



## jamato8

Yep, pretty extreme. So which do you like best or which ones, or combinations or . . ?


----------



## CEE TEE

Hi Jamato,
   
  I'm going to read a bit more about rolling and learn about each opamp through searching.  
   
  I would like to try the high-power combination out though.
   
  Could you tell me which combo was the high-power one that you tried?
   
  You mentioned Transistor Buffers.
   
  Are those the big buffers with the blue boards?
   
  A friend also lent me some OPA627APs and others so I'll have a lot to play with!
   
  I'm new so I may take my time before posting so I don't confuse other new people.
   
  Hope my images will help, I plan on using them to create charts with pointers and text so people know which are which and we can talk about them.
   
  I also want to just enjoy some music now, so it may take a little bit!


----------



## HiFlight

Yes, the transistor buffers are the blue adapters with the 2 small transistors on each adapter.
  
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Hi Jamato,
> 
> I'm going to read a bit more about rolling and learn about each opamp through searching.
> 
> ...


----------



## brendon

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> P4:  Internal lithium battery vs AAA cells, much easier to open for rolling opamps, Topkit LR module included in rolling kit.  SQ comparison depends upon LR/buffer/ground opamp choices for each.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah ! Thanks.


----------



## b0klau

i just ordered this yesterday from ibasso, im so excited! only problem is i won't be able to use it till christmas. how long does shipping take? And how do you obtain the tracking number? (I live in canada) thanks in advance


----------



## jamato8

They normally ship within a day and it takes 3 or 4 to get to you unless held up by customs.


----------



## Musicdiddy

Quote: 





b0klau said:


> i just ordered this yesterday from ibasso, im so excited! only problem is i won't be able to use it till christmas. how long does shipping take? And how do you obtain the tracking number? (I live in canada) thanks in advance


 
  I ordered mine last Monday and received it today although it might have been here sooner had DHL in Hong Kong not been so busy (Xmas rush started already apparently!). The tracking number will be emailed to you by iBasso.


----------



## chrisbrock

Hello all!  I had been completely sold on the P4 and then I began to read a little more about the fiio E9.  I then found myself completely sold on the E9 as I got the impression it performed similarly to the P4 for basically half the cost.  Now I am finding that I am stuck between these two and cant decide.  Would anyone care to comment on why they would go with the P4 over the E9 and do you believe that the difference would be worth paying double to cost? I am looking for an amp to power a set of Dt770/80s in an office environment where I listen to trance/techno or NIN style music.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!
   
  -Chris


----------



## paulybatz

The power of the P4 and the ability to not only swap opamps to customize the sound, but they provide a nice opamp kit of a lot of value with the amp...if this amp were made by "S"omeone else, it would be double the price!
  
  Quote: 





chrisbrock said:


> Hello all!  I had been completely sold on the P4 and then I began to read a little more about the fiio E9.  I then found myself completely sold on the E9 as I got the impression it performed similarly to the P4 for basically half the cost.  Now I am finding that I am stuck between these two and cant decide.  Would anyone care to comment on why they would go with the P4 over the E9 and do you believe that the difference would be worth paying double to cost? I am looking for an amp to power a set of Dt770/80s in an office environment where I listen to trance/techno or NIN style music.  Any input would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> -Chris


----------



## chrisbrock

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> The power of the P4 and the ability to not only swap opamps to customize the sound, but they provide a nice opamp kit of a lot of value with the amp...if this amp were made by "S"omeone else, it would be double the price!


 

 Hmm, after you mentioned the value of the opamp kit that is included I decided to do some research and it looks like if you were to go out and buy a set of AD797, OPA604, TLE2141, BUF634P and BU634U opamps you would end up spending around $68.26 plus tax and shipping.  This does not include the transistor buffers and the dummy adapters either.  I had not realized the value of that in reality. Thanks for the input.


----------



## kargi

Excuse my ignorance but what is this 3rd and 4th channel? I tried to search it, but couldn't find anything..


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





chrisbrock said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not only the cost of the op amps and buffers but also the adapters and then the work of soldering everything up. That could run to near 100 dollars and then your time or someone else's to do the work. There are also a lot of quality parts inside of the P4.


----------



## chrisbrock

Thanks alot for prompting me to think into things a bit more. I cant wait to see what the P4 sounds like with the dt770/80's but I think it will be really energetic and fun setup.  The P4 will definitely be under the my tree this year. Dont get me wrong I am sure that the fiio E9 would also be a great amp but the ability to easily modify and the fact that a great selection of opamps are included with the P4 have won me back.
   
  Now to figure out if I can also pick up a little dot DAC for the home rig as well. woohoo!!
   
  -Chris


----------



## ztsen

You may want to get a sony LOD than using the hp jack.
  
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Don't have my Sony LOD yet, but:


----------



## CEE TEE

^ Trust me.  I am waiting for it.    (LOD certainly isn't arriving from China as fast as the iBassos did!)
   
  I guess optical from my Mac into the D12 is just gonna have to do until then...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And, it is.
   
  Enjoyed my Sony with IE8 again the other night.  
   
  Going back and forth between *Optical>D12>MS2i and **Sony>IE8* is like Anthony Bourdain in Russia.  
   
  (Ice Dip to Steam Room and back again.) 
* *


----------



## b0klau

Well the p4 just arrives today (fast shipping from china!) but open the box to see a silver p4 instead of the black one i ordered -_- oh well, just gonna have to live with it, besides its the sound that counts right?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





b0klau said:


> Well the p4 just arrives today (fast shipping from china!) but open the box to see a silver p4 instead of the black one i ordered -_- oh well, just gonna have to live with it, besides its the sound that counts right?


 

 Email iBasso about this.


----------



## estreeter

ztsen, was it really necessary to quote a post containing so many images ?? Dude, that is one of my pet hates and a serious bandwidth buster for those of us who dont have the good fortune to be on cheap 1TB internet plans  .......


----------



## ztsen

When I in Tokyo last time, Oyaide have Sony LOD, and I also seen some where else too but forgotten where.
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> ^ Trust me.  I am waiting for it.    (LOD certainly isn't arriving from China as fast as the iBassos did!)
> 
> I guess optical from my Mac into the D12 is just gonna have to do until then...
> 
> ...


----------



## sparktography

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> ztsen, was it really necessary to quote a post containing so many images ?? Dude, that is one of my pet hates and a serious bandwidth buster for those of us who dont have the good fortune to be on cheap 1TB internet plans  .......


 

 If you have already seen the images at least once they should be on your local PC's cache. If you don't have an unlimited bandwidth plan (we are so lucky here in the United States), then setting your internet cache to a larger value in your browser will help save on re-downloading images on a forum like this.


----------



## CEE TEE

I got my LOD and it is just great...will post pics later.  Maybe this weekend...


----------



## denging

Quote: 





ztsen said:


> When I in Tokyo last time, Oyaide have Sony LOD, and I also seen some where else too but forgotten where.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 


  yep, it's marketed under Fiio Brand as Fiio E5


----------



## CEE TEE

Uh...not really.  Want to buy my E5?


----------



## CEE TEE

This is what I am now using in my trans-portable Sony X>D12>Grados rig:
   
   
*<Sorry, my link was bad...I just edited.  Will try to find correct link.>*


----------



## CEE TEE

The default seems to be the brushed Silver...I also worried and emailed them that they sent out the correct color.
   
  IF ordering the black version, take extra care.
  
  Quote: 





b0klau said:


> Well the p4 just arrives today (fast shipping from china!) but open the box to see a silver p4 instead of the black one i ordered -_- oh well, just gonna have to live with it, besides its the sound that counts right?


----------



## denging

oops, sorry, i mean L5 .... my bad bro... (*E5 is my ultra portable amp)


----------



## greenrolaids

about to pull the trigger on the p4.
   
  It looks like the p4 is the best top end portable for the money ? 
   
  I know its a subjective question.. but any input would help.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





greenrolaids said:


> about to pull the trigger on the p4.
> 
> It looks like the p4 is the best top end portable for the money ?
> 
> I know its a subjective question.. but any input would help.


 

 I guess it comes down to whether or not you have the asking price of the StepDance. Other than Rob, Larry and a couple of other lucky sods, I'm not sure how many have heard both amps, so its a tough one, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I believe Jan Meier's quality control is better, as it should be with an amp that costs significantly more than the P4.


----------



## jamato8

I haven't seen anything, including my $7,000 Leica camera body, that is without the lens, that doesn't have issues from time to time so to say that money/cost denotes better QC is by it self misplaced. Which amp sounds better I don't know but mine has plenty of use and performs and sounds fine. My Leica M9 has been in the shop twice since May of this year and Leica is known for Ultimate quality. . . just an example.


----------



## estreeter

Point taken, Jam, but how many of us are going to go to the trouble of sending a ~ $200 amp back to China for repair when, for example, the USB connection to the DAC ceases to power the thing ?
   
  We have a local reseller for Meier Audio here in Oz who I know will take any feedback re defects very seriously, and Jan has been very quick to respond to any issues raises by Head-Fiers - I may be wrong, but I dont believe that iBasso has a spokesperson like Justin/Jason/Ray or Jan - these guys give their brand a human dimension, presumably at considerable cost to their businesses.
   
  Please note that I am not deprecating the technical accomplishments of iBasso Audio, and I think its great that they are able to produce the P4 for the retail price on their site. As I said earlier, it would be fantastic to be able to compare the P4 and the StepDance, but reality dictates that most of us will make a choice between one or the other - I would hope that part of that choice will be based on the assumption that the amp will stand up to the rigors of portable audio - in my experience with the D4, that simply hasnt been the case, and I dont believe that I am Robinson Crusoe. By contrast, there are legions of Move/HeadSix owners out there who seem to have had their amps in and out of backpacks etc for several years now without incident - as always, there will be exceptions, but that is the impression I get from this and other forums.
   
  estreeter


----------



## jamato8

I am not crazy about USB connections, I will state that right up front. On the P4 there isn't any since it runs at a much higher voltage and has an adapter that puts out 16 volts. The ability to change op amps and buffers and to go from 3 or 4 channel grounding in the P4 is nice advantage if the sound doesn't suit. I have looked at the parts in the Warbler and most are sourced from Japan and the US. The quality is very high along with the custom volume control knob they now have made and the case. 
   
  It's all good. Great hobby and for some, profession.


----------



## estreeter

Good points well enunciated, Jam - peace  estreeter


----------



## jamato8

I am using the P4 with dual output buffers biased for wide bandwidth and the TLE2141 biased to class A with great results. This little amp is a power house. With two buffers per channel and 12.6 volts, there is plenty of voltage and current. I will be curious how it does with the LCD-2, which don't appear hard to drive but the better the source and amp, obviously the better the sound so I look forward to how well the P4 fairs as well as the Monica II dac and the MB-1 dac.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I haven't seen anything, including my $7,000 Leica camera body, that is without the lens, that doesn't have issues from time to time so to say that money/cost denotes better QC is by it self misplaced. Which amp sounds better I don't know but mine has plenty of use and performs and sounds fine. My Leica M9 has been in the shop twice since May of this year and Leica is known for Ultimate quality. . . just an example.


 


  Funny how that works, ain't it? The more you know how to fix, the better off you are.


----------



## jamato8

Yep, but there isn't much to try and fix on the M9. I do adjust the focus, which most will not attempt but it just requires a 2mm allen wrench. 
   
  On other repairs, it is always nice to be able to do things yourself as long as you don't end up making it worse, which often happens to people.


----------



## Armaegis

Can someone tell me what 3 and 4 channel grounding is? My google-fu isn't turning up anything useful as I keep finding articles on 3 channel systems, but nothing about grounding.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Yep, but there isn't much to try and fix on the M9. I do adjust the focus, which most will not attempt but it just requires a 2mm allen wrench.
> 
> *On other repairs, it is always nice to be able to do things yourself as long as you don't end up making it worse, which often happens to people. *


 


  This is what I meant, not that you fool around with your uber nice camera. How does the Warbler drive all your Ultrasones? I listened to the ED9 once and I liked it, even from an amp that was not that great.


----------



## jamato8

It works fine. Some of the most authority I have heard from a portable. The Ed. 9 aren't hard to drive but of course the better the source and amp, the better they sound. With the Warbler they sound excellent. Now I am experimenting with different op amps in the V/G circuit and different op amps in general. The amp is a kick because it sounds excellent and then you can play with it as well. 
   
  Right now I have the OPA627 in the V/G circuit and it warms the amp up some. I am not sure I like it but I know some will. It sounds like a warmer tube amp with these in the V/G. Now to try some 211 or whatever.


----------



## Tinola

Want this..   P4 is on my list to get against P-51 and D12
  
  Quote: 





p4z said:


> Things I'm interested in reading comparisons of the iBasso P4 against:
> Headstage Arrow 12HE 2G
> iBasso D12/P3+
> Meier STEPDANCE
> ...


----------



## ztsen

Hey Guys, Just placed my order. Sold my iBasso D10 to fund this new amp, hope it won't disappointed me.  
   
  The China market only sell cheaper version P3DIY which is the same circuit but have a slight different and different opamp supplied. Been thinking P3DIY or P4, so concluded with P4.
   
  HiFlight, any topkit for P4 yet?
   
  Is the topkit used in D10 can be used in P4 as well?
   
  Is the power 12v in P4 make a different compare to 5v in D10 using iem?


----------



## HiFlight

iBasso has included my D10 Topkit L/R combination in the P4 rolling kit. As the rolling kit contains an excellent selection of great opamps, I will not be making up a complete Topkit for the P4, although I do have a L/R module called "Classical/Jazz" that is available as a supplement to the included rolling kit. It is a single dual-channel Class A biased module that is "plug and play" when inserted into the center LR socket of the P4.
   
  Do NOT attempt to use the D10 buffers in the P4. They cannot tolerate the P4 supply voltage.
   
  The difference in supply voltage between the D10/12 and P4 is really only a factor when driving relatively inefficient headphones.  It also supplies additional headroom when listening at high volumes. 
   
  For the most part, I hear no audible differences with my IEMs at the volume I use.  Both drive my SA5000's effortlessly.
   
  Quote: 





ztsen said:


> Hey Guys, Just placed my order. Sold my iBasso D10 to fund this new amp, hope it won't disappointed me.
> 
> The China market only sell cheaper version P3DIY which is the same circuit but have a slight different and different opamp supplied. Been thinking P3DIY or P4, so concluded with P4.
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

I am listening with the metal can opa2111AM and the buffer HA5002 (in a special board Xin used to have made up) and the sound EXcellent. The amp with a single 5002 per channel is driving my LCD-2 with no problem. This past few years have really seen some major changes in portables.


----------



## 120717

@jamato8 You have an impressive collection of portable amps, would you be able to give any comparisons?


----------



## greenrolaids

how well would the p4 drive 600ohm headphones ?
   
  I was looking to get the beyerdynamic dt880's 600ohm.


----------



## ztsen

Just received my P4 today!
   
  Initial impression is very positive to me  
   
  Here a little picture for sharing  ><


----------



## CEE TEE

*Personal opinion:* get a desktop amp.
  
  Quote: 





greenrolaids said:


> how well would the p4 drive 600ohm headphones ?
> 
> I was looking to get the beyerdynamic dt880's 600ohm.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

The P4 is almost as good as a desktop amp, and it is portable. I think it has more than enough power to drive the DT880s. 600mw a channel are the specs.
  
  Quote: 





cee tee said:


> *Personal opinion:* get a desktop amp.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## estreeter

George,
   
       I downloaded the PDF for the P4 - recommended impedance range is* 8-300 ohms*. I have never owned a 600 ohm pair of headphones, but I did have the K601 and I know what its like to try to find an amp with enough cojones to drive your headphones.
   
       End of the day, its all just numbers until you plug headphone X into amp Y, but the whole impedance-matching thing has been criticised here many times - there is more to it than numbers on a page.
   
  estreeter


----------



## tnmike1

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> iBasso has included my D10 Topkit L/R combination in the P4 rolling kit. As the rolling kit contains an excellent selection of great opamps, I will not be making up a complete Topkit for the P4, although I do have a L/R module called "Classical/Jazz" that is available as a supplement to the included rolling kit. It is a single dual-channel Class A biased module that is "plug and play" when inserted into the center LR socket of the P4.
> 
> Do NOT attempt to use the D10 buffers in the P4. They cannot tolerate the P4 supply voltage.
> 
> ...


 

 Ron: you've piqued my interest in this amp when you mention you have a kit for classical and jazz.  Only listen to both venues.  Care to give pricing on the opamp kit???


----------



## charlie0904

@ztsen
   
  you pick yours up at stereo? looking forward to head down for a listen.
  can to share any impression of the synergy with UM3X?


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

@estreeter,
   
  Sure, the P4 would probably have slightly less performance than a desktop amp. However, it shouldn't stop greenrolaids from considering the amp if he wants a portable amp that can also drive the DT880s pretty well. If he doesn't care about portability, then he should get a desktop amp.


----------



## CEE TEE

After trying the P4 and using it with HD-600 (and comparing it to desktop amps) I decided that for me that I would use portable amps for Grados and PK1.
   
  I'm working on getting a desktop DAC/Amp and have been trying some out.  With respect to greenrolaids question- I have only tried <very briefly> the DT880 250 ohm and 600 ohm back-to-back *but not* with the P4 (which I no longer have).
   
  In my brief experience with having both D12 and P4 at the same time- if you don't need the DAC, then the P4 would be a really fun experience for trying out all sorts of rolling with opamps and buffers but I wouldn't recommend the P4 for 600 ohm headphones.  Not after hearing what even inexpensive desktops can do in comparison with just 300 ohm phones.  
   
  My hopes for getting everything in portables changed after getting these things and trying them out...  Someday there will be a fuel cell in a portable amp that will run off hydrogen and drive any headphone.  But the good news is that iBasso has a desktop amp on the way and there are LOTS of great desktops that don't cost that much if you want to get DT-880 600 ohm (which I did like better than 250 ohm version).  And, iBasso is probably working on that mini-fuel cell as we speak! 
   
  There are PLENTY of phones that the D12 and the P4 can drive.  So we're in great shape and will have lots of toys in the end...
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> George,
> 
> I downloaded the PDF for the P4 - recommended impedance range is* 8-300 ohms*. I have never owned a 600 ohm pair of headphones, but I did have the K601 and I know what its like to try to find an amp with enough cojones to drive your headphones.
> 
> ...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> There are PLENTY of phones that the D12 and the P4 can drive.  So we're in great shape and will have lots of toys in the end...


 

 The problem, as I see it, is that Head-Fiers seem to have an uncanny knack of trying to drive the 'biggest' cans with the smallest amps - all well and good if you can afford a desktop amp AND a portable (or five ..), but there is a big difference between being able to get more volume from an amp and being able to actually drive those cans to their optimum. The other problem is that many of the cheaper fullsize amps simply arent going to cut it sound-wise once the novelty has worn off - I'm happy to hear otherwise, but it looks like the Corda Concerto is the baseline for a good fullsize amp. I'm not knocking Little Dot and others for bringing headphone amps to the masses, but it seems to be inevitable that Head-Fiers start out with the cheaper models and end up with something around the price of the Concerto or beyond. I'm definitely not immune to this, but the definition of insanity is repeating the same sequence and expecting a different result. Both the Toucan and the SR71B promise the kind of voltage swings which could well make it possible to drive big cans from tiny amps, but the only way to find out is to part with your hard-earned - having done that, how many of us would be willing to come back and report that your dream amp didn't match expectations ?
   
  I applaud you for being specific re the P4/HD600. Some fields simply demand a bigger tractor, pure and simple


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Skylab says the SR71B is pretty close to his desktop amp in driving the HE-6. He says it is impossible to distort the sound and it wounds really good, a fact I can vouch for as I have heard the combo while ray proudly watched me. It is kind of stupid that head-fiers keep trying to run huge phones on tiny amps, but they are nice to bring around the house, in all fairness. I still think any phone up to 300 ohms will be fine on the P4. 600 ohm phones will do very well, but will not perform to the limits of their capabilities.


----------



## paulybatz

SR71B is balanced...The Toucan would be a comparative tool here, not the P4...and you are talking double the money for the RSA unit!
  Apples and Oranges and Grapes
  Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Skylab says the SR71B is pretty close to his desktop amp in driving the HE-6. He says it is impossible to distort the sound and it wounds really good, a fact I can vouch for as I have heard the combo while ray proudly watched me. It is kind of stupid that head-fiers keep trying to run huge phones on tiny amps, but they are nice to bring around the house, in all fairness. I still think any phone up to 300 ohms will be fine on the P4. 600 ohm phones will do very well, but will not perform to the limits of their capabilities.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

True. I was just saying that there are portable amps that are good enough to serve as a home amp. The P4 comes very close, from what I have read.
  
  Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> SR71B is balanced...The Toucan would be a comparative tool here, not the P4...and you are talking double the money for the RSA unit!
> Apples and Oranges and Grapes
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## ztsen

I ordered direct with iBasso and free delivery to Beijing when I was business trip there. Not much time with it yet. But some opamp rolling will definitely find the best fit for UM3X. 
  
  Quote: 





charlie0904 said:


> @ztsen
> 
> you pick yours up at stereo? looking forward to head down for a listen.
> can to share any impression of the synergy with UM3X?


----------



## SpudHarris

Think I'll be ordering one of these very soon......


----------



## SpudHarris

Ordered today (Boxing Day) as my present to myself. I've been a very good boy this year  Now just got to wait for iBasso to get back to work soI'm expecting it early 2011 & can't wait....


----------



## Tinola

They work during Christmas it's crazy. I ordered mine the 23rd, I'm receiving it tomorrow as if there wasn't Christmas. I'm very impressed. You'll most likely receive it this week.  I got a D4 by the way.
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Ordered today (Boxing Day) as my present to myself. I've been a very good boy this year  Now just got to wait for iBasso to get back to work soI'm expecting it early 2011 & can't wait....


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





tinola said:


> They work during Christmas it's crazy. I ordered mine the 23rd, I'm receiving it tomorrow as if there wasn't Christmas. I'm very impressed. You'll most likely receive it this week.  I got a D4 by the way.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh wow, thanks Tinolo for that. Seems a shame that but I'm not complaining....


----------



## jamato8

You see Santa Claus all over China and Christmas decorations. I would ask people, when I lived there, what does Christmas mean? "I don't know but it is fun and we like to celebrate". It is big there, even in remote areas. It also starts early. But working on Christmas doesn't mean anything to many as it is an extreme minority that are Christian.


----------



## SpudHarris

ibasso e-mailed me twice following my order on boxing day and my P4 is with DHL already 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I think I'll have it in a few days and that is fantastic service in my book.
   
  I have bought this to upgrade my P3+ and will give some comparisons for those interested when I've had chance to take in the P4 sound...


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> You see Santa Claus all over China and Christmas decorations. I would ask people, when I lived there, what does Christmas mean? "I don't know but it is fun and we like to celebrate". It is big there, even in remote areas. It also starts early. But working on Christmas doesn't mean anything to many as it is an extreme minority that are Christian.


 

  
   
  I don't know about the rest of the world, but in Canada, Christmas is when all the Jewish people get Chinese food because the restaurants are still open.


----------



## CEE TEE

^^There should be a sticky or a wiki for Chinese holidays.  
   
  Always have to plan at work around Chinese New Year, etc.
   
  That might help temper some expectations when ordering gear during their holidays (not sure if regular operations continue for some vendors).
   
*More On Topic:*  iBasso shipped D12 and then P4 to me so fast that I keep thinking it was like a day-and-a-half because they picked up my Sunday night order (it was already their Monday)...and I think I got it Tuesday in California.  
   
  That's just the best-case scenario.


----------



## estreeter

I once spent Xmas in Jakarta in an attempt to escape the madness - didnt work. Retailers everywhere embrace the opportunity to get consumers buying toys of all descriptions. Central Malaysia is the only place where I have managed to escape it, and that was largely due to the fact that we stayed in a backwater town - KL would have been every bit as crazy as Sydney or Melbourne.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I once spent Xmas in Jakarta in an attempt to escape the madness - didnt work. Retailers everywhere embrace the opportunity to get consumers buying toys of all descriptions. Central Malaysia is the only place where I have managed to escape it, and that was largely due to the fact that we stayed in a backwater town - KL would have been every bit as crazy as Sydney or Melbourne.


 

 I think you would have better luck in North Korea or Pakistan.


----------



## estreeter

> I think you would have better luck in North Korea or Pakistan.


 

 Thats exactly the kind of comment which would have had my post deleted by Commandant Erik, but clearly its different because you are an Americian. If you equate Muslim nations like Malaysia and Indonesia with rogue states like North Korea, you really need to re-examine your history. The Pakistan people are currently suffering on a daily basis because their country has become a haven for terrorists - I doubt that they wake up in the morning and think 'Gee, its great that Al-Qaeda came to our country when things got too hot next door'. Imagine Mexican drug lords establishing a foothold in the southwest US - unlikely that the locals would be happy about that.
   
  As for 'wanting to escape Christmas' by going to a Muslim country, it had little to do with religious beliefs - but then 'Xmas' has nothing to do with religion anyway. Its all about retailers and advertisers going into overdrive to hammer consumers into buying goodies they dont need in the hope that this will impress those around them. 'Thanksgiving' makes sense - 'Xmas' is increasingly irrelevant, IMO.
   
  Back to headphones and headphone amps


----------



## Anaxilus

Boy did you take that out of context.  Think Christmas, Commercialism and Consumerism.  Nevermind.  I have my own commandant to answer to but that's another story.
   
  Btw, I've been to Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, Israel, Bosnia and OMG! Australia.  I have a minor in religious studies from University and one of my majors was HISTORY!  I'll let you reflect on that in hopes I needn't say anything else.


----------



## Tinola

Sorry for the "Christmas" comment... It has led to a few arguments.
   
  Soo,,, about the P4, I don't have one.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





tinola said:


> Soo,,, about the P4, I don't have one.


 

 I hear it warbles a little bit.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Boy did you take that out of context.  Think Christmas, Commercialism and Consumerism.  Nevermind.  I have my own commandant to answer to but that's another story.
> 
> Btw, I've been to Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, Israel, Bosnia and OMG! Australia.  I have a minor in religious studies from University and one of my majors was HISTORY!  I'll let you reflect on that in hopes I needn't say anything else.


 

 I overreacted, and I apologise.
   
  Sadly, if the university I attended and the two I have worked at are any indication, history will not be offered in very many 'institutes of higher learning' for much longer. I dont know about the Ivy League, but here in the Mortgage Belt its 'just give me a piece of paper that will get me a job' ....


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No worries bro.  Best wishes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  PS.  It is sad History is getting the axe.  There will be a deeper price to pay for it in the long run IMO.  Back to the Warbler.


----------



## jamato8

Here many college students, like 75 percent or more, enter the 2 year program with a reading level anywhere from 7th to 8th grade. Their US Pell Grant is used up on remedial courses and then they drop out because they go for the grant money and nothing else. Party on dude, party on. 
   
  P4 is a powerful clean amp. Unbelievable.


----------



## SpudHarris

Powerful, Clean and more.....
   
  Got mine today and have to say I am amazed how far ibasso have pushed the envelope on this amp. Not only a great amp but my experience with their customer service has always been great. Although I am awaiting for an answer from them which John will probably know so I'll ask here also.
   
  The BUF634AU's are on an adapter that cries out for another DIP to be plugged into the top, I assume this is for stacking buffers but wondered does it matter if you mix ''AU'' or ''P''? I have some standard (Not Hi-C) BUF634P's and wondered if I can just plug and play?
   
  Someone asked about the underside so for those interested I snapped a quick pic. Looks fairly busy under there.....


----------



## jamato8

You would stack a regular buffer on one that is biased to high C. If you stacked another one with a resistor then you would be halving the resistance to 100 ohms, which works but will burn more current and the 634's will get hotter. I had an amp that used no resistor, just a trace and the buffers got very hot but didn't sound any better than with a 200 ohm resistor. You can stack any of the 634's from soic or dip.


----------



## SpudHarris

Well, I'm finding I like the Hi-C BUF634's better than any of the included buffers.
   
  I have listened for many hours since changing the configuration and have a quite bold statement to make. I think that bang for buck this is an absolutely incredible amp. I don't think I've ever heard an amp in 4 channel mode that sounds this good, the intricate layers of music are there in all their 3D glory, just wonderful.... My experience with 4 channel modes have never been quite what I was hoping for, often too airy with loss of impact or slam. Not so with the P4 
   
  My Unique Melody/Westone 6 Monitors sound better with this amp than anything else in my stable at present but reserve judgement on full sized cans as I haven't tried any yet. I may do just for laughs but the P4 is really for portable use. The Fi-Quest is a brilliant amp for sure and probably beats the P4 in a few areas but 4 channel mode isn't great to my ear and the Fi-Quest footprint is probably 3 times the size.
   
  For reference I'm using ADA637-1-BRZ in L/R with Hi-C Buffers and OPA627 dual module in the centre position of G/V.


----------



## paulybatz

Did some more listening today...I like it stock with no mods...however I am going to give RON's (HiFlight) topkit a try! See what it does, the one I got for my D4 really opened it up.
  Pauly


----------



## ztsen

Any idea where can I get the  OPA627 ?   How is it sounds compare to the stock opamp?


----------



## jamato8

I think Digkey has them. I like the OPA637 as well.


----------



## ztsen

How do I know which 1 to buy?
   
  so many choice here
   
  I need to buy as a pair rite?
   
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I think Digkey has them. I like the OPA637 as well.


----------



## estreeter

Buy them all - we are talking silicon here, not sheep stations


----------



## Bugdozer

Ok, total noob question here as I've never delved into the world of op-amp rolling and I'd like to start playing with my new P4.  When SpudHarris says he's using a OPA627 dual module in the center position of G/V, is this a single OPA627, two stacked, a special OPS627?
   
  I did a search for this and also started to read the big D10 thread but I got a bit overwhelmed with 276 pages of posts.  Thanks All!


----------



## Bugdozer

Sorry, double post.


----------



## SpudHarris

I'm sure as I buy loads from them AudJade won't mind me pasting a couple of pics....
   
  This is the type I was speaking of.


----------



## HiFlight

Although more expensive, the BP version is the best of the OPA627/637 choices.


----------



## SpudHarris

Absolutely agree!
   
  Those AU's were the only OPA627's I had in my box as the BP's are used elsewhere.
   
  I have made no bones about my love for the OPA2111AM and it has been my favourite for sometime in my Fi-Q. Out of curiosity I ordered a couple of OPA111BM's and have dropped them in the P4 with Hi-C Buffers and G/V bypassed. I haven't compared with the 2111AM yet but I can tell you they are the Dogs Proverbials.......
   
  I love this amp


----------



## Bugdozer

Thanks, I'm ordering now.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Although more expensive, the BP version is the best of the OPA627/637 choices.


 
  Ryuzoh has stated he prefers the lesser expensive version of the 637 vs the BP. I haven't compared the two but have the BP version and have always enjoyed it.


----------



## SpudHarris

Well I haven't tried any 637's at all as they weren't suitable for the P3+ and not brilliant in the P3. Are we ok to use them in the P4?


----------



## HiFlight

Although many of the specifications of the OPA637 are significantly improved over those of the 627, the 637 should only be used in applications where the gain is more than 5 and there is low load capacitance, otherwise it can be unstable. The 627 is unity gain stable and less tempermental than the 637. The overall SQ between the two is quite similar although the 637 is "faster" (higher slew rate) than the 627. Both require about 9v to meet spec and are fairly power-hungry.
   
  Although the OPA627/637 are widely considered to be the ultimate in audio opamps, IMO there are a number of others that sound as good, if not better and cost much less.


----------



## RedBull

Has anyone page Skylab for review?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Tried this to compare with P-51 Mustang with SE530.
  P4 kills Mustang on mids, vocal fullness, piano fullness, bass, soundstage, neutrality, detail, treble, yuck. 
  Changed P-51 gain to Mid, it helps to get better transparency, but still NO competition, hands down!!
   
  Feel like I have to ditch my Mustang and get this, really.


----------



## Vault101

I am curious to see P4 versus stepdance.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Has anyone page Skylab for review?


 

 You might like to read his portable amps thread:
   
  1. Rob is doing a final comparison of portable amps this weekend, then moving on to higher end reviews.
   
  2. iBasso refuse to send him any more review samples after one of his reviews didnt gel with their expectations of glowing praise etc. He may have reviewed the P4 if someone had loaned him one when the amp was released, but that window has clearly come and gone.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





redbull said:


> Has anyone page Skylab for review?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I find this very interesting. Read this: http://raysamuelsaudio.com/products/p-51 All Ray Samuels has is Skylab's review, where Skylab gives it an A++ on mids. You say the P4 is better on mids and other areas. I am not bashing Ray Samuels as I believe bashing anyone is unfair. Ray is a really nice guy and I have met him in person. For all accounts he ships his products fast and does not even charge money in preorders until the amp is shipped out. Having said all that, I will do a matchup of the two amps. 
   
  Prices: P4 $245, P-51 $375. 
   
  Features of P4: 
  Gain: 2 settings
  Opamp rollable: Yes
  Size: Fairly large for a portable.
  Price: At the lower end of the portable spectrum, definitely has a lot of value.
  Power: I can be reasonably sure the P4 has more power than the Mustang.
  Looks: Not quite as nice as the P-51, but nice, neutral, and clean.
   
  P-51 Mustang
  Gain: 3 settings
  Opamp rollable: No
  Size: Very small, moderately thick.
  Price: At the higher end of the portable spectrum.
  Power: I can be reasonably sure the P-51 does not have as much power as the P4.
  Looks: Very nice, stylish.
   
  In conclusion, I think the P4 wins hands down. The Mustang still has its strong points such as size, features, and looks (which are debatable anyway), but the P4 is undoubtedly the better value and probably the better sound. I say probably because I like to have a few impressions before I decide what a product is like, no offense to you redbull, as experience shows this is the best course. 
   
  I Ray Samuels' defense, the Mustang is fairly old and maybe Ray will come out with an amp with better value. But right now, the P4 looks like the way to go.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Jamato, do you think you can do a mini comparison between the P4 and the Mustang? I know you are a big fan of each. Your opinion would be valued here.


----------



## ztsen

I sold my Mustang long ago. 2 major reasons, narrow soundstage and randomly generate noise when turning volume knob. I reported to RSA but he said is 'like that'. (unless his product have a dynamic volume for all my different albums) I do not have any such issue with iBasso considers it has cheaper price tag.  This P4 definitely value for money.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





ztsen said:


> I sold my Mustang long ago. 2 major reasons, narrow soundstage and randomly generate noise when turning volume knob. I reported to RSA but he said is 'like that'. (unless his product have a dynamic volume for all my different albums) I do not have any such issue with iBasso considers it has cheaper price tag.  This P4 definitely value for money.


 
  Thanks. Portable amps march on, thanks to a very innovative and awesome Chinese company.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





georgegoodman said:


> Thanks. Portable amps march on, thanks to a very innovative and awesome Chinese company.


 
   
  Cmon, George - lets give credit where its due. If iBasso were the only company to release 'game breakers' in the last 12 months, I could see where you were coming from with this. This isnt a flame, merely a reminder that there is more than one player on the field.


----------



## GeorgeGoodman

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My statement wasn't meant to be all inclusive. The Headstage Arrow looks awesome, as well as the Hifiman stuff. Finally, Ray Samuels' SR71B is just a phenomenal amp with the HE-6. My dad and I have heard it, and I marvel at how such a small thing can produce so much good sounding power. Ibasso is not the only player in the market by any means. Other amps and brands have much to recommend them. To me, Ibasso amps give great value.


----------



## b0klau

I tried rolling my p4 for the first time with great results:
  TLE2141 in L/R
  BUF364P in buffer
  OPA604 in G/V
   
  To my untrained ears, i noticed the bass tightened up and the highs have slight more "sparkle", than from the stock opamps. I was very pleased with myself and kept the combo.
   
  I have one question: which way do the transistor buffers go? There seems to be no indication of pin #1 on the transistor buffs. Does it even matter which way it goes in?
   
  Sorry for the noobiness, but any help is appreciated. Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  EDIT: i took a look at this post a short while later, and found the time posted was 6:24. the time i actually posted was 9:30... weird.


----------



## b0klau

bump


----------



## jamato8

Sorry, I didn't see your questions. Look at the transistor buffer. There is one pin with a square area of solder around it. That is pin one. Pin one is at the lower left of most op amps. That is the end where the notch would be, in other op amps, and that is way it would face, as the other buffers would. So you use that as a guide for placing it in the socket. If you are looking at the socket and the notch goes to the right, then that pin one of the transistor buffer, goes to the right.


----------



## b0klau

Alright, thanks for the help Jamato. Im looking forward to roll the opamps in the little p4 again.
  This hobby never gets old


----------



## Hab

Has anyone used one of these with ie8's. I'm thinking of getting one purely for the fact I can roll the op amps and I'm wondering if any of the supplied ones synergise with the Sennheisers? If not which op amps should I be looking at?


----------



## audioheadfi

Quote: 





hab said:


> Has anyone used one of these with ie8's. I'm thinking of getting one purely for the fact I can roll the op amps and I'm wondering if any of the supplied ones synergise with the Sennheisers? If not which op amps should I be looking at?


 

 Yes Id be interested if anybody is using this with IE8s as well


----------



## CEE TEE

I have D12 and tried P4.  I don't bother to use an amp with Sony X and IE8.
   
  Didn't really make a difference with IE8, but with PK1 it was very noticeable and improved them.
   
  (I finally get the "better when amped thing" that everyone says about PK1.  Depends on the amp, I found...)
   
  But I do use the D12 (and would use the P4 if I still had it) with Grado HF-2 with really good results.


----------



## Bugdozer

Ok, another noob question.  The P4 is listed as a 3CH/4CH amp.  So what does that really mean and what benefit do you gain by running op amps in the G/V sockets?


----------



## HiFlight

The 3 and 4-channel refers to the way that the ground channel is isolated from the rest of the circuitry. Ground configuration changes result in differences most noticeable in imaging and soundstage. 
   
  I find that the use of opamps that are capable of delivering reasonably high output current seem to perform best in the ground sockets.  Given the many possible combinations of LR, buffer and ground configurations, one can be kept busy rolling opamps for a long time!
   
  The P4 is a very capable basic amplifier and plays well with all phones that I have auditioned with it.


----------



## Bugdozer

HiFlight, thanks for the info, I think I understand.
   
  None of my other amps have rollable op amps so I have been keeping myself entertained swapping things around. I keep hearing my wife say, "Why do you keep taking that thing apart?"


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





bugdozer said:


> I keep hearing my wife say, "Why do you keep taking that thing apart?"


 

 Reminiscent of the old Brit comedies where they enjoyed rolling out 'What's this thing called, love ?'


----------



## paulybatz

That is funny stuff Bugdozer!!!


----------



## estreeter

Just wondering if P4 owners, presumably over the new toy joy by now, would like to report on how things are going with their amp ? Not sure exactly why, but the D6 seemed to steal some of the momentum from the P4, presumably because it gives you a DAC in the same enclosure.
   
  Headfonia listed the P4 as one of the amps they were going to review in their '12 Amp Shootout', even to the point where it appears in the photos, but didnt get around to a review.


----------



## HiFlight

IMO, if one needs a basic portable amp, the P4 is second to none.  Of all my iBasso amps, it is my most used. 
  
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Just wondering if P4 owners, presumably over the new toy joy by now, would like to report on how things are going with their amp ? Not sure exactly why, but the D6 seemed to steal some of the momentum from the P4, presumably because it gives you a DAC in the same enclosure.
> 
> Headfonia listed the P4 as one of the amps they were going to review in their '12 Amp Shootout', even to the point where it appears in the photos, but didnt get around to a review.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> IMO, if one needs a basic portable amp, the P4 is second to none.  Of all my iBasso amps, it is my most used.


 
   
  Thanks Ron.


----------



## Bugdozer

I'm still loving mine and it gets used daily. a lot. If I were to get a portable DAC, I'd like to see an updated D12 as I'd miss the optical and coax inputs gone missing on the D6. I've REALLY been eyeing the DB2 PB2 combo but going balanced is a slippery slope. My next big purchase may be a set of JH13 PRO's but that is dependant on finances.


----------



## estreeter

Mine should be here early next week - just waiting for funds to clear my bank into PP account. I readily admit that there are several other amps that interest me, but the fiscal logic of buying this over the (seriously) cheap portable and fullsize amps just made sense. When I bought the D4, there was nothing like the E9/Asgard - even in the battery-powered arena, iBasso had the upper hand on price over all bar the DiYers. Fiio didnt even have the E7 at that stage, although I'm confident that the P4 will wipe the floor with its much cheaper competition.
   
  Still dont know how Schiit can sell the Asgard for roughly the same price as the P4, but it seems to have as many detractors as fans (possibly more - consensus seems to be that its a tad boring) and the heat issue just doesnt lend itself to bedside use. Leckerton ? No denying that the price is tempting, but iBasso have a track record for me : the UHA-6 might make for a nice comparison if I have the funds later.
   
  Its a shame iBasso stopped sending Skylab amps to review, but thats all water under the bridge and he has moved on. Onward and upward 
   
  estreeter


----------



## estreeter

Really wish someone had warned me about the ease with which you can strip the (miniscule) thread from the tops of the tiny bolts that hold the faceplate on. The tool iBasso provides would be fine if they were only lightly fastened - mine werent. Have to wait till Wednesday to get access to an electric drill and a vice : fan-freaking-tastic.
   
  For the DiYers on Head-Fi, this would be little more than a bump in the road, but for me its just bloody annoying. While I admit that it was easy to lose the thumbscrews from the back of the D4, access to the internals was a whole lot easier.


----------



## nickyboyo

Ron, quick question, is the P4 a noticeable step up from the P3+ sonically? The P3+ has the advantage of being powered by batteries you can buy in a supermarket. Does the sonic difference outweigh the ease of battery replacement aspect with the P3+?


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Really wish someone had warned me about the ease with which you can strip the (miniscule) thread from the tops of the tiny bolts that hold the faceplate on. The tool iBasso provides would be fine if they were only lightly fastened - mine werent. Have to wait till Wednesday to get access to an electric drill and a vice : fan-freaking-tastic.
> 
> For the DiYers on Head-Fi, this would be little more than a bump in the road, but for me its just bloody annoying. While I admit that it was easy to lose the thumbscrews from the back of the D4, access to the internals was a whole lot easier.


 

 I had the same problem when I got my D10. What I did was take a thick elastic, place it over top of the screw, then press down with the screwdriver and turn. It took a few tries and a few elastics, but it eventually came loose. The idea is to just use the rubber to wedge in there so you can turn it. I've had limited success with a simple pencil on similar stripped screws. It depends just how tight it is though.


----------



## estreeter

Thanks, Armaegis - I tried super glue on the basis that it *might* fill the gap and let my screwdriver get some purchase on the head of those tiny bolts, but no luck - happy to hear that I'm not the only one who has had this sort of problem. Will try the elastic today - I just got so p*d off with it yesterday that I gave up and left the P4 to rack up a few more burn-in hours.


----------



## Armaegis

One other thing I did was remove the other 3 screws, which allowed the plate to wiggle a bit. Getting it to wiggle helped loosen the last one.


----------



## jamato8

I take all 4 top screws out. I then use clear tape on one side to make a hinge. I then use one thumb screw to close the case. It is very fast to change op amps and the lid is hinged so it stays with the amp. Works extremely well.


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





nickyboyo said:


> Ron, quick question, is the P4 a noticeable step up from the P3+ sonically? The P3+ has the advantage of being powered by batteries you can buy in a supermarket. Does the sonic difference outweigh the ease of battery replacement aspect with the P3+?


 


  Anyone?  I'd be interested to hear this too.


----------



## Enanthate

Bump for impressions against P3+ and/or Pico Slim...


----------



## HiFlight

Given the same opamp combinations in both amps, I find the audible differences between the P3+ and P4 to be very slight.   I am not sure I could reliably identify which is which in a blind test.  The P4 does offer more headroom with the 16v charger than does the P3+.
   
  As I use my P4 a lot for opamp tests and comparisons, having the new case design is a huge factor in my preference for the P4 as it is much quicker and easier to swap opamps.  If one does not need a USB DAC input, either the P3+ or P4 is, audibly, a superb choice.  
   
  There is no doubt that being able to pick up a set of fresh AAA batteries virtually anywhere rather than needing to recharge via AC is a P3+ positive.    I guess it really boils down to "Ford vs Chevy" when considering the difference between the two.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
   

  
  Quote: 





newakgguy said:


> Anyone?  I'd be interested to hear this too.


 


   


  Quote: 





nickyboyo said:


> Ron, quick question, is the P4 a noticeable step up from the P3+ sonically? The P3+ has the advantage of being powered by batteries you can buy in a supermarket. Does the sonic difference outweigh the ease of battery replacement aspect with the P3+?


----------



## Enanthate

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Given the same opamp combinations in both amps, I find the audible differences between the P3+ and P4 to be very slight.   I am not sure I could reliably identify which is which in a blind test.  The P4 does offer more headroom with the 16v charger than does the P3+.
> 
> As I use my P4 a lot for opamp tests and comparisons, having the new case design is a huge factor in my preference for the P4 as it is much quicker and easier to swap opamps.  If one does not need a USB DAC input, either the P3+ or P4 is, audibly, a superb choice.
> 
> There is no doubt that being able to pick up a set of fresh AAA batteries virtually anywhere rather than needing to recharge via AC is a P3+ positive.    I guess it really boils down to "Ford vs Chevy" when considering the difference between the two.


 

 "Sigh"  Thanks for saving me $250 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
   
  Any Pico Slim comparisons?


----------



## estreeter

For the small improvement in form factor, I would be inclined to go with the original Pico amp over the Slim, based purely on what I have read. While I take 6Moons with a grain of salt, the fact that they claim to have been able to drive the HE-5LE *at all* with the Pico is astounding. Cans like the HD650 suddenly become viable from a portable, although I would imagine that the P4 trumps it in pure power output.


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





enanthate said:


> "Sigh"  Thanks for saving me $250
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ditto.


----------



## autarch1

Hi, I'm hoping someone here will be able to give me some advice. I recently purchased an ibasso P4 to go with my new Ultrasone 8's, and I have been a bit frustrated. I have tried every possible configuration with the amp rolling kit (I am totally new to this) and I still always feel the sound directly out of my ipod or zune sounds better. Tonight I remembered that I have a fiio E5 that I never use. I decided to try it for the first time with my Ultrasone headphones and I was shocked at how good it sounded. I doubt that it is the experience of most people here that the E5 will outperform the P4 but that is the case with me.
   
  Could my P4 be defective? or do I need to purchase additional op amps? My ibasso amp seems very dry with a recessed mid range and a small soundstage. Swapping components around never really gave me a satisfactory mid range. strangley enough, my fiio amp does.
   
  Any advice on what to try (or buy) and where to purchase things i may need would be appreciated.
   
  Thanks


----------



## estreeter

Mine needed at least 50 hours before I started to warm to it, and that was with the stock opamps. YMMV.


----------



## Armaegis

Be happy with the e5, return the P4, spend the money on women instead


----------



## HiFlight

A couple of suggestions... 
   
  Make sure that you have the buffers in the correct sockets.  The buffer should be the BUF634 opamp.  The hi-bandwidth BUF634 has a small resistor along one side.   Try the OPA604 in the LR sockets.  Use the outside sockets as the 604 is a single-channel opamp. 
   
  I have found that the ground configuration has as much, if not more, effect on SQ than the L/R choices.   Remember that the ground opamp that is used must carry the total current from both L/R channels.   I would suggest trying a BUF634 in the ground channel closest to the front of the amp (G), with a dummy opamp in the socket closest to the rear of the amp (V).   You can also try using only a bypass opamp in the center ground socket.   This will place the amp in the standard LR/buffer configuration rather than 3 channel or 4 channel mode.  Remember that the center ground channel can only be used with dual-channel opamps, and there are not any high-current dual-channel opamps in the rolling kit.   Also, keep in mind that the outside sockets of the ground channel can only be used with single-channel opamps or bypass adapters. 
   
  You will also get the conditions that you describe if the input cable is not completely seated in your source and/or in the P4.   Same with the headphone cable. 
   
  With the OPA604 in both  L/R sockets, BUF634 in buffer sockets, and a BUF634 high-bandwidth in the front ground socket and a dummy in the back ground socket, your P4 should sound very good and walk all over your iPod and Zune headphone outputs.  The P4 is a quality amplifier than outperforms many of the desktop amps that I have owned.
  
  Quote: 





autarch1 said:


> Hi, I'm hoping someone here will be able to give me some advice. I recently purchased an ibasso P4 to go with my new Ultrasone 8's, and I have been a bit frustrated. I have tried every possible configuration with the amp rolling kit (I am totally new to this) and I still always feel the sound directly out of my ipod or zune sounds better. Tonight I remembered that I have a fiio E5 that I never use. I decided to try it for the first time with my Ultrasone headphones and I was shocked at how good it sounded. I doubt that it is the experience of most people here that the E5 will outperform the P4 but that is the case with me.
> 
> Could my P4 be defective? or do I need to purchase additional op amps? My ibasso amp seems very dry with a recessed mid range and a small soundstage. Swapping components around never really gave me a satisfactory mid range. strangley enough, my fiio amp does.
> 
> ...


----------



## SpudHarris

Ron,
   
  I tried that combination after reading your post and indeed it is very, very nice. It does however create a lot of noise (high pitch whining etc...) It dissapears when I change out the BUF634 from ground for something else (OPA627AP). Why would that be?
   
  I have since gone back to my favourite chipset OPA111AM L/R > HiC Buf634's > OPA627 top G Socket and bypassed bottom G Socket. This combination seems to suit me the most but am concerned about the thud when turning the P4 on. Will this harm my IEM's?


----------



## HiFlight

If you are using the dummy with the 634, it is likely oscillation.  You might try one of the non-Hi bandwidth 634's.    The thump you hear when turning on the amp is normal and will be more or less pronounced depending upon the opamp configuration.  It can be usually be minimized by turning on the amp with the volume at minimum. 
   
  The 627 has a pretty low output, so I would suggest a ground opamp with more output current for better performance.   OTOH, you could also try it with a dummy opamp in the center ground and both V & G empty.   You should get no feedback at all with that configuration.   ISL55002, THS4032 and AD797 also work very well as ground channel opamps.   All can deliver decent output current.  The 797 is single-channel, of course, whereas the 55002 and 4032 are both dual-channels. 
   
  The Hi-C mode of the 634 can be tricky, as it is, by virtue of the much higher bandwidth,  prone to oscillation in many circuits.  I have not personally been a fan of that mod, as the added bandwidth is far, far above the audio bandwidth and many of its harmonics. 
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Ron,
> 
> I tried that combination after reading your post and indeed it is very, very nice. It does however create a lot of noise (high pitch whining etc...) It dissapears when I change out the BUF634 from ground for something else (OPA627AP). Why would that be?
> 
> I have since gone back to my favourite chipset OPA111AM L/R > HiC Buf634's > OPA627 top G Socket and bypassed bottom G Socket. This combination seems to suit me the most but am concerned about the thud when turning the P4 on. Will this harm my IEM's?


----------



## SpudHarris

Thanks for the response Ron, appreciated.
   
  Unless I have something in ground and/or V/ground I get siblance with every chip I care to think of in L/R so always have something in there. I have AD797BRZ's but not the others you mention. Haven't bought any OpAmps for a while as the OPA111's work for me in the P4 and ADA4637's work for me in my Fi-Quest, maybe I'll get onto digikey and see what I can get...
   
  Thanks again


----------



## HiFlight

Just give the a 797 a try in ground and see what happens.   They always worked well there for me regardless of what I was using for L/R or buffers.  I prefer using G rather than V, but it is a matter of preference. 
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Thanks for the response Ron, appreciated.
> 
> Unless I have something in ground and/or V/ground I get siblance with every chip I care to think of in L/R so always have something in there. I have AD797BRZ's but not the others you mention. Haven't bought any OpAmps for a while as the OPA111's work for me in the P4 and ADA4637's work for me in my Fi-Quest, maybe I'll get onto digikey and see what I can get...
> 
> Thanks again


----------



## autarch1

Ron,
   
  Thanks for the detailed response. I set up my amp as you suggested, and so far I am very pleased. I hadn't realized how much the ground setting changed the sound. I also thought that I needed to have the same things in both V and G so I never would have tried your combo if you hadn't suggested it.
   
  Also, is there any advantage in placing the amp in the standard LR/buffer configuration?
   
  Thanks again,
  Mike


----------



## imackler

Hey all,
  Is the P4 complete overkill for iems? I know I don't need that much power for a low impedence iem (westone 4) but is it too powerful? Or is the P4 sonically worth it even though I don't need that much juice?
  Thanks!


----------



## SpudHarris

The beauty of the P4 is the option to drive IEM's if you so wish but also much harder to drive phones if the need arises, it is a very capable amp. I listen with my W4's and they sing with the P4 but then so do my HE-4's (in high gain though)....
   
  I think it's been said before but if you listened to the P4 blindly you would think you were listening to a very nice desktop amp, the sound is big/full.


----------



## imackler

Thanks for the response and, can I say, that is fantastically tempting. So the P4 adds to the W4? What opamps do you enjoy with the W4? Glad to hear from someone who uses both!
   
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> The beauty of the P4 is the option to drive IEM's if you so wish but also much harder to drive phones if the need arises, it is a very capable amp. I listen with my W4's and they sing with the P4 but then so do my HE-4's (in high gain though)....
> 
> I think it's been said before but if you listened to the P4 blindly you would think you were listening to a very nice desktop amp, the sound is big/full.


----------



## SpudHarris

You are welcome.
   
  Well, the opamps obviously change the signature but I have been rolling again and have OPA1641 (class A) in L/R > BUF634AU > LT1363 In G/VG. I believe this offers a truly BIG sound through the W4's. Detailed, fast and with very, very good low end definition.
   
  I also squeeze a little extra SQ from the P4 with a 15v Linear PSU. Bang for buck the P4 is unbelievable value and the tweakability to suit many types of phones is just the icing on the cake for me. Also........ iBasso are a great company to do business with


----------



## denis

Any positive or negative experience of the P4 with Hifiman HE-5LE headphones?


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





denis said:


> Any positive or negative experience of the P4 with Hifiman HE-5LE headphones?


 


  The P4 can drive them to a comfortable level, but there is not a great deal of headroom left.  If you listen to rock at high volumes, the P4 is probably not the best choice.


----------



## denis

OK thanks. Better results with a pair of HE-4's or is it the same than with the HE-5LE's?  I hesitate between the 2 Hifiman headphones. The P4 is only for the vacations before I buy a better AC powered amp.


----------



## SpudHarris

Depends on what levels you listen at but I listen quite loud and I get the pot to about 1-2 oclock in high gain with the HE-4's


----------



## denis

I am not listening that loud. On the quality side, is it good?


----------



## SpudHarris

Excellent and even more so considering its small form factor. I've owned many amps both portable and home and the P4 is amongst the best of both.


----------



## denis

Thanks SpudHarris. Just ordered the HE-4's and my P4 is on its way.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

hmm, so ive got some pretty amateur questions. i read through the thread but i really dont understand all the options for the opamps/buffers. You can run left/right voltage gain opamps in either dual single channel or a single stereo opamp? and then you can run buffers, but those are only available in stereo? and then the grounds. Its a 3/4 channel amp, does that mean you can run active grounds for both channels independent of each other? except that wouldnt work since its a single ended amp...you guys keep referencing G and V in relation to the ground opamps, whats that mean?
   
  also, the only person to mention the transistor buffers was Jamato way back in the thread, did everyone determine that the chip buffers are better?


----------



## denis

SoupRKnowva,  I just received my P4. It sounds great.  I will give a try with the transistor buffers and let you know my impressions.  At the moment, the configuration is:  2 OPA 627 L/R + 2 BUF 634 + 2 HiC BUF


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





denis said:


> SoupRKnowva,  I just received my P4. It sounds great.  I will give a try with the transistor buffers and let you know my impressions.  At the moment, the configuration is:  2 OPA 627 L/R + 2 BUF 634 + 2 HiC BUF


 

 so you're not using anything in the ground channel?
   
  thats really the only thing i was curious about, whats the difference between the G and the V that people keep talking about?


----------



## SpudHarris

I don't know the intricate detail but it stands for 'Ground' and 'Vertual Ground' and with the volume pot to your right the right hand socket has more impact than the left, don't know why.....
   
  Transister buffers are good but to my ears not as good as Hi-C (BUF634+ dale resistor) buffers.


----------



## denis

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> so you're not using anything in the ground channel?
> 
> thats really the only thing i was curious about, whats the difference between the G and the V that people keep talking about?


 

 I also would like to know about these ground channels. I understand that 0, 1, or 2 buffers can change the sound. But why and how?...


----------



## denis

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> so you're not using anything in the ground channel?


 
   
  I am using 2 HiC BUF in the ground channel.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





denis said:


> I am using 2 HiC BUF in the ground channel.


 
  i thought you were supposed to use normal opamp(eg not buffers) in the ground channel?


----------



## denis

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> i thought you were supposed to use normal opamp(eg not buffers) in the ground channel?


 
   
  You're maybe right. It works that way. I will try to replace them with AD797...


----------



## SpudHarris

No, you can use them as ground/Vground and you can also use the 797's as buffers. If you look in the instruction manual it tells you which can be used where.


----------



## denis

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> No, you can use them as ground/Vground and you can also use the 797's as buffers. If you look in the instruction manual it tells you which can be used where.


 


 OK, thanks. In fact, I think I will stay that way for the moment (2 OPA 627 L/R + 2 BUF 634 + 2 HiC BUF). I just replace the 2 OPA 627 with 2 class A biased OPA 627 this morning. To my ears, it is better and much more controlled.


----------



## SpudHarris

My favourite L/R is either OPA2111AM or OPA111AM (metal can) or ADA-4637-1-BRZ or OPA1641 (class A biased)
   
  I always run the Hi-C buffers as nothing seems to sound quite as good, stacked BUF634's are good also but not quite as good.
   
  I always have a dummy in the left side of ground sockets and an OPA627AP in the right side ground and to my ears that yealds the best results without too much thud when using sensitive IEM's.


----------



## denis

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> My favourite L/R is either OPA2111AM or OPA111AM (metal can) or ADA-4637-1-BRZ or OPA1641 (class A biased)
> 
> I always run the Hi-C buffers as nothing seems to sound quite as good, stacked BUF634's are good also but not quite as good.
> 
> I always have a dummy in the left side of ground sockets and an OPA627AP in the right side ground and to my ears that yealds the best results without too much thud when using sensitive IEM's.


 


 I know I have a lot of work to do before I get the best sound. I plan to do this during my vacations... As you told me SpudHarris, this little amp is really good!


----------



## SpudHarris

Finding the best sound for you and your respective phones/dap etc is the fun in owning an Opamp rollable amp. Like you I still spend time tweaking, it's just I think I'm nearing the end of my tweaking journey (until the next best thing in Opamps comes along).
   
  Enjoy!


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Finding the best sound for you and your respective phones/dap etc is the fun in owning an Opamp rollable amp. Like you I still spend time tweaking, it's just I think I'm nearing the end of my tweaking journey (until the next best thing in Opamps comes along).
> 
> Enjoy!


 


  so how do you think it compares to the 2Stepdance?


----------



## SpudHarris

Haha, you've been reading another thread haven't you....
   
  The P4 has considerably more power (enough for HE-4's) the 2Stepdance does not. The P4 is a lot of fun for people like me who like to tweak and customise a signature to suit other gear. The 2Stepdance uses 5 x OpAmps (OPA209) and a circuit optimised for them. I'm not sitting oon the fence here but they are both great amps with strengths (and weakness) in different areas. The 2Stepdance makes my ES5's sound better than my P4 but lacks some authority with hard to drive full sized phones whereas my P4 is still great with my IEM's on low gain but in high gain it has the grunt to power almost anything well. The only thing I would consider trading my P4 with is the other high powered iBasso PB2 (32v voltage swing).
   
  So they are both keepers but for different reasons.


----------



## imackler

Does anyone have a favorite iem/bud that really acts as a great vehicle for the P4 and its opamp/buffer section to shine? I'm thinking something more neutral (and maybe hard to drive, but wouldn't have to be) that really lets the P4 standout...as much as you'd want am amp to standout. The P4 sounds like a blast and unlike many items in the industry can actually be upgraded. It seems like a fun way to enjoy the more "hobby" side of this rather than just the "I can't afford that" side.
   
  I know normally you're looking for an amp to compliment an iem, that the iem/headphones are what matters the most. But what would be a sweet iem that would let you have lots of fun distinguishing the different sound characteristics of the buffer/opamps of the P4.


----------



## estreeter

Personally, I see the P4 more as a 'mini power-amp' perfectly configured for the more brutish  fullsize cans (short of the HiFiMan orthos - lets be realistic....), but I admit that I havent heard any of the higher end IEMs. The P4 definitely had better control at very low volumes than my (Vishay pot) uHA-120, but the only IEMs I had at the time were the PL50s.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Haha, you've been reading another thread haven't you....
> 
> The P4 has considerably more power (enough for HE-4's) the 2Stepdance does not. The P4 is a lot of fun for people like me who like to tweak and customise a signature to suit other gear. The 2Stepdance uses 5 x OpAmps (OPA209) and a circuit optimised for them. I'm not sitting oon the fence here but they are both great amps with strengths (and weakness) in different areas. The 2Stepdance makes my ES5's sound better than my P4 but lacks some authority with hard to drive full sized phones whereas my P4 is still great with my IEM's on low gain but in high gain it has the grunt to power almost anything well. The only thing I would consider trading my P4 with is the other high powered iBasso PB2 (32v voltage swing).
> 
> So they are both keepers but for different reasons.


 
  lol you caught me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  yeah, im looking for a new portable amp to use with my JH-13's, and dont have the desire to go balanced anymore. I sold my protector a year ago now to fund a 3A purchase, and now im not planning on getting one of those any time soon, probably want to wait for a second revision on that one. But now i want a new amp to use, since ive been ampless for so long.
   
  Are you saying that the 2Stepdance would be a better option for those sensitive IEM's like my 13's? i get that the P4 will work fine in low gain mode, but does the 2Stepdance sound that much better? I also probably woulda bought one already, but im a huge fan of built in rechargables, ala RSA amps and the iBasso amps, thats what's been holding me back.
   
  thanks in advance for any advice since you have both amps and a similar top end/very sensitive/custom IEM


----------



## SpudHarris

Yes, 2Stepdance is better for that purpose. But the P4 is more flexible.


----------



## imackler

If I were to use the P4 for both the ER4S and the HD600 would I need to reconfigure buffers/opamps every time I switch between the iem/over ear? I know that the ER4s is a harder to drive iem but the impedance difference between them is pretty large... Or would one "gain" setting work for both of them?
  Thanks!


----------



## SpudHarris

Hmm... can't answer that off the top of my head. I have it here set in low gain to suit my ES5's and W4's so I guess I just need to see if it will also drive the HD600's. I'll check for you..... give me 20mins or so.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





imackler said:


> If I were to use the P4 for both the ER4S and the HD600 would I need to reconfigure buffers/opamps every time I switch between the iem/over ear? I know that the ER4s is a harder to drive iem but the impedance difference between them is pretty large... Or would one "gain" setting work for both of them?
> Thanks!


 


  You would NOT need to change gain between the ER4S and HD600.   High gain should work just fine with them both.


----------



## SpudHarris

I just tried mine in low gain and the P4 gets to about 3-4 o'clock for my listening level. I don't use it in high gain with my ES5's or W4's as I can hardly use the pot at all. Can't comment on high gain with ER4S coz I don't have them but assume Ron knows as he's ate, drank and slept this amp...


----------



## denis

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I just tried mine in low gain and the P4 gets to about 3-4 o'clock for my listening level. I don't use it in high gain with my ES5's or W4's as I can hardly use the pot at all. Can't comment on high gain with ER4S coz I don't have them but assume Ron knows as he's ate, drank and slept this amp...


 


  I just can confirm that the P4 works very well in high gain with ER4S.


----------



## imackler

Thanks for all the input guys. I just got the "I'm going to buy something awesome" buzz.


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





imackler said:


> Thanks for all the input guys. I just got the "I'm going to buy something awesome" buzz.


 

 Well, you for sure did buy something awesome!  Congratulations on your new P4!


----------



## estreeter

I second the motion, and I rest my case, Your Honour !
   
  Still eagerly awaiting more detailed feedback from Ron on the combination of the D12+P4 : on paper, that looks rather awesome, but seems to be completely overlooked by those hellbent on having the 'lastest and sexiest' kit. C'est La Vie.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> C'est La Vie.


 


  why not


----------



## HiFlight

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I second the motion, and I rest my case, Your Honour !
> 
> Still eagerly awaiting more detailed feedback from Ron on the combination of the D12+P4 : on paper, that looks rather awesome, but seems to be completely overlooked by those hellbent on having the 'lastest and sexiest' kit. C'est La Vie.


 


  Sorry, I thought I did report back that the D12/P4 combo sounded great.  While not the greatest in transportability, it would make a very nice desktop rig that would put many larger and more expensive systems to shame.   It worked especially well when fed with the optical output from my H120.


----------



## vlach

Have you heard the 2Stepdance?

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Haha, you've been reading another thread haven't you....
> 
> The P4 has considerably more power (enough for HE-4's) the 2Stepdance does not. The P4 is a lot of fun for people like me who like to tweak and customise a signature to suit other gear. The 2Stepdance uses 5 x OpAmps (OPA209) and a circuit optimised for them. I'm not sitting oon the fence here but they are both great amps with strengths (and weakness) in different areas. The 2Stepdance makes my ES5's sound better than my P4 but lacks some authority with hard to drive full sized phones whereas my P4 is still great with my IEM's on low gain but in high gain it has the grunt to power almost anything well. The only thing I would consider trading my P4 with is the other high powered iBasso PB2 (32v voltage swing).
> 
> So they are both keepers but for different reasons.


----------



## imackler

Yeah, SpudHarris owns it.
   
  Quote: 





vlach said:


> Have you heard the 2Stepdance?


----------



## estreeter

He certainly does, and I value the fact that he can compare both amps directly, unlike one or two in the Stepdance camp who are convinced that they have the most powerful portable amp in the history of the known world


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> He certainly does, and I value the fact that he can compare both amps directly, unlike one or two in the Stepdance camp who are convinced that they have the most powerful portable amp in the history of the known world


 


   how could anyone think that? lol the PB-2 swings what 32V p-p in balanced mode?
   
  that isnt a comment on the SQ though, just a statement of power.


----------



## estreeter

Careful - you'll fire Ray up - he is adamant that the SR71B is that most powerful portable amp and nothing else comes close.


----------



## vlach

Thanks. In that case i'm interested to know which has the best SQ regardless of power output.
  
  Quote: 





imackler said:


> Yeah, SpudHarris owns it.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Careful - you'll fire Ray up - he is adamant that the SR71B is that most powerful portable amp and nothing else comes close.


 


   haha i havent looked into it too much, lets just say they're both about the same then


----------



## Armaegis

Oh goodness, I remember that debacle when it first surfaced...


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





vlach said:


> Thanks. In that case i'm interested to know which has the best SQ regardless of power output.


 


 I have commented on this before.
   
  For IEM's and some phones not requiring the power the 2Stepdance is better, there I've said it. But, if you want something that has the power to drive tougher phones (including orthos) but is still able to work well with IEM's and the lower impedance phones then the P4 is the way to go, it is far more flexible in that respect. Of course with the right chipset you can probably get close to the SQ 2Stepdance, just not quite 
   
  I'm not sitting on the fence it's just that they are both excellent amps but each does something the other one doesn't.


----------



## iwantsilence

hey guys ! allow me to join the club
   
  this amp sounds really good ! using it to drive my esw10 and loving it ever since ... much better than my previous govibe petite. Had not started opamp rolling just yet because i am very happy with the current sound. Portability of this amp is good, expected it to be heavy but amps without alkaline batteries is so much lighter. The built of it is lovely, black matt finish to the knobs to the switch,everything in perfection. A very well made pretty amp indeed!
   
  Quality is not compromise by its attractive price tag! good job ibasso!


----------



## vlach

Hi SpudHarris, you're right, you did make that comment earlier, i somehow missed it sorry.  Anyway, thanks again for the clarifications, i think for me the decision will boil down to the 2Stepdance or the MKll, however the general consensus seems to favor the former...
   
   
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have commented on this before.
> 
> For IEM's and some phones not requiring the power the 2Stepdance is better, there I've said it. But, if you want something that has the power to drive tougher phones (including orthos) but is still able to work well with IEM's and the lower impedance phones then the P4 is the way to go, it is far more flexible in that respect. Of course with the right chipset you can probably get close to the SQ 2Stepdance, just not quite
> 
> I'm not sitting on the fence it's just that they are both excellent amps but each does something the other one doesn't.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *iwantsilence* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> much better than my previous govibe petite.


 
   
  Sweet Jesus, I would HOPE its much better than the govibe ! What sort of price differential are we talking here - 3-4 times the price ?


----------



## cosmicreality

I just placed an order for an Ibasso P4 and was shocked to see how fast the shipping is to the US.  It's practically 2-3 days!  I'm planning on trying it out with AKG Q701 headphones (similar to K701s) with an iPad as the source.
   
  I've also been considering the Ibasso D6 unit (instead of P4), but unfortunately, it will not work as a DAC with the iPad (according to Ibasso).  It's still tempting though, because I'd be able to use it as an amp only with the iPad - and also use it as a Dac/Amp when connected to my desktop PC.
   
  Can't wait to see if the P4 and Q701's work well!  It's also great to know that the sound can be changed by rolling the included opamps.
   
  Does anyone know which opamps should work best with these cans?  (Included are the AD797, OPA604, TLE2141 Class A, BUF634P WB*2, BUF634U*2, Transistor BUF*2, Dummy adapter*4).


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Cosmicreality,
   
  I'll be very interested to hear what you think about the P4 and AKG-x70x phones.  I occasionally use my P3+ with my 702s but that setup could use more juice, so I usually go with an RSA and use the P3+ with my IEMs.  Anyhow, I really like the iBasso house sound and they represent real value.  I like the idea of an iBasso that can really drive the AKGs.  Say it's so.


----------



## SpudHarris

P4 drives everything I own with authority. Same goes, I used to keep the P3+ mainly for IEM's but the P4 is way more flexible. The only negative is that the gain jumpers are inside the amp so if you want to change the gain to suit a specific phone (orthos for instance) then you have to open it up....


----------



## SpudHarris

I have been rolling and I believe I have found the chipset to kill all others, I dare anyone listening with their eyes shut to put a cost to this anywhere close to the RRP. This amp punches sooooo far above it's weight it's just astounding.
   
  OPA637BP (L/R) > BUF634AU x 4 (Stacked x 2) > LT1363CN8 (G) / Dummy (VG)


----------



## jamato8

Excellent. I will have to try it.


----------



## Armaegis

So a dumb question... I'm assuming the first row is for the L/R opamps, the second for the buffers, but what's the third row for?


----------



## SpudHarris

3rd row is Ground and Virtual Ground....


----------



## Armaegis

Oi, I should have known that...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Interesting to note that it has a separate buffer each for the ground and virtual ground.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have been rolling and I believe I have found the chipset to kill all others, I dare anyone listening with their eyes shut to put a cost to this anywhere close to the RRP. This amp punches sooooo far above it's weight it's just astounding.
> 
> OPA637BP (L/R) > BUF634AU x 4 (Stacked x 2) > LT1363CN8 (G) / Dummy (VG)


 

 Great stuff, spudly, but I have made a solemn vow to myself : if I do buy another P4, the case will never be opened. Given the right source/headphones, the stock P4 is sensational VFM.


----------



## n5750547

I've been reading about this amp for a couple of days now as I'm looking for something a bit more portable than my current HeadRoom Portable Micro Amp. The Micro Amp sounds great with my UM Aero's which really need a good amp to reach their potential on the lower end of the spectrum. That said, the Micro Amp weighs over 300g and is becoming a pain on my daily commute.
   
  I don't have experience with other portable amps but from what I've read the P4 might be a good alternative. So my question is this (and I'm hoping someone has tried both), will the P4 give me as good or better SQ than the Micro Amp? It will definately have plenty of power, I'm just curious weather there is a opamp combo that will give me the tiny bit of extra oomph in the low range while still sounding clear/precise.
   
  Thanks
  Phil


----------



## flargosa

How does it compare with your Stepdance? How is battery life?
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I have been rolling and I believe I have found the chipset to kill all others, I dare anyone listening with their eyes shut to put a cost to this anywhere close to the RRP. This amp punches sooooo far above it's weight it's just astounding.
> 
> OPA637BP (L/R) > BUF634AU x 4 (Stacked x 2) > LT1363CN8 (G) / Dummy (VG)


----------



## SpudHarris

Battery life is something I can't comment on because I never let it run all the way down. But it's in excess of 15 hours....
   
  People are always asking me about the P4 and 2Stepdance but I'll reiterate what I've written elsewhere. Both amps are great, brilliant in fact. The 2Stepdance is however limited in what it can drive with authority, I really should explain what I mean here as others may take it wrongly. When I say ''with authority'' I'm not talking about just being able to hear the music, anyone with a proper powerful amp will understand the term. Yes you can hear music through the Stepdance, even my HE-4's could be driven but they didn't sound BIG and other harder to drive phones are the same in my opinion. However, with IEM's the 2Stepdance is fantastic (especially with my ES5's) and probably a little better than the P4.
   
  The P4 is more flexible as it will drive anything in my stable and yes, with authority..... It is also superb with IEM's but I do have a gripe using it with IEM's. The P4 to my ears is siblant without an opamp in ground, I can't shift it without something in the G socket, period. Best results in my experience are from the LT line and my personal favourite is LT1363CN8. However, there is quite a thud when switching it on which worries me when using $1000 IEM's so generally I switch it on first but do forget now and again. I'm digressing again......
   
  Can't choose between them really coz they both offer something the other doesn't. Value for money and flexibility goes to the P4 but no nonsense ultra clean, neutral sound (especially for easy (er) to drive phones and IEM's) goes to 2Stepdance.
   
  Update on L/R chips - You guys have to try the OPA602BP!! Oh my....


----------



## estreeter

flargosa, my advice to you is to buy this amp. Give it a hundred or so hours to settle in, and be prepared for an iron fist in a velvet glove. Every single time I see my bro-in-law, I think of the day we trashed my P4.


----------



## uelover

I have just gotten myself a P4!


----------



## Varley

I'm about to join the club


----------



## civilaudio

I had the P4 matte black, only thing I don't like is the white volume control knob.... it is strange silver in the black. --> changed to the black knob --> look great..
   

 I got too many choice but the favorite is the HiFlight suggestion (1638 and HA5002)..


----------



## estreeter

If the worst thing about the amp was the color of the volume knob (!), I'd say thats a pretty good outcome. Next we'll have people telling us that the silver P4 gives a brighter sound sig than the black one, but only till you reach 1000 hours .....   :banghead:


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> If the worst thing about the amp was the color of the volume knob (!), I'd say thats a pretty good outcome. Next we'll have people telling us that the silver P4 gives a brighter sound sig than the black one, but only till you reach 1000 hours .....   :banghead:


 

  
  and we will have some people say some "white" noise make the amp change color from black to white.... (after 2000hs)
   
  Color personalizing was the RSA amp school... Does he charge extra +$15 for anything other than black..


----------



## SpudHarris

Hmmm.... I happen to like the silver knob (see my earlier pics). I had a black knob on it for a while but found it made the bass bloated 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Seriously though, you guys just ordering this amp are in for a rare bang for buck treat. The P4 with the right chipset (LT1678 + HA5002 Buffers + ISL55002 in G/VG ) will compete with portables/desktops costing substancially more. This amp is one of lifes golden nuggets......


----------



## estreeter

Spud, I'd suggest we let these folks have some fun with the stock configuration before leaping into the world of op-amp rolling - if my D4 is any guide, its swings-and-roundabouts for most of us. I tried a stack of different combinations, and ended up back with Ron's original recommendation.


----------



## SpudHarris

I tried literally hundreds of combos since buying the P4 and now literally have the absolute best in the above chipset.... for those who want to try it straight off and then play if they so wish it could save them a lot of dosh on boutique opamps that don't yeald the same results. I know coz I've done it. Just tryin to help.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Spud, I'd suggest we let these folks have some fun with the stock configuration before leaping into the world of op-amp rolling - if my D4 is any guide, its swings-and-roundabouts for most of us. I tried a stack of different combinations, and ended up back with Ron's original recommendation.


 

  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I tried literally hundreds of combos since buying the P4 and now literally have the absolute best in the above chipset.... for those who want to try it straight off and then play if they so wish it could save them a lot of dosh on boutique opamps that don't yeald the same results. I know coz I've done it. Just tryin to help.


 
   
   
  Yeah, .. I procured opamps from Ron... got several options from his recommendation... I did try several options picking from P3, D4 thread... some was ok.. I actually tried the 602BP after Spud claim it was the best...
   
  I plugged the LT1678 + HA5002 Buffers but left the G/V to dummy(s)... don't have ISL55002. Ron recommended the ad797 in ground but it has some radio interferences when I plugged in the power supply..


----------



## SpudHarris

I got that interferance too but not with the ISl55002 in G/VG and that is one of the few chips when used in G/VG that doesn't have a massive thud when switching on. I still love the OPA602BP by the way but it's a chip that needs to be listened to for a while to be appreciated fully.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I got that interferance too but not with the ISl55002 in G/VG and that is one of the few chips when used in G/VG that doesn't have a massive thud when switching on. I still love the OPA602BP by the way but it's a chip that needs to be listened to for a while to be appreciated fully.


 

  
  I will revisit 602BP in the future... I just checked the ISI55002.. this one has 140ma of output?


----------



## vkvedam

Hey Spud
   
  Just a quick question. Did you ever have a listen to the Neco V2 Dual Mono? I am asking you this just because of the fact that you're from the UK. If yes then how good is P4 compared to the Neco.
   
  Many Thanks.....


----------



## SpudHarris

I have had a couple of Neco's amps and auditioned/reviewed the early version mosfet amps he now makes. I never had the dual mono but I still have one of his cmoys which I rehoused in a less bulky altoids tin. For a cmoy it is very, very refined. If you listened with your eyes closed you would imagine something more expensive for sure. However it does not compete with the P4 at all. I like Neco though, he's a great tallent and I'd love to try his flagship mosfet now it has evolved, it looks the business with the dual power supplies etc....
   
  The P4 with the right Opamps takes some beating, period.
   
  Hey just noticed you are just down the road from me (Worcestershire)


----------



## vkvedam

Cheers Spud, I had the pleasure of owning the V2 dual mono for about 10 months and now sold it. He said there's going to be a V3 that's coming out. I felt it's really good compared to my D10 although the sound stage is a bit less in comparison. But bass presentation was really good. Good to see another head-fier in the neighbourhood. But I am in Coventry now.


----------



## andychen

how does P4 compared to some of the budget desktop amps, like E9? Thanks.


----------



## estreeter

Really well.


----------



## uelover

Just popped in my OPA627 Dual opamps in. Sounds really smooth and lush. A bit more to be desired on the soundstage and dynamics though.
   
  1) Will using 2X single OPA627 be better than 1X dual OPA627 or will they achieve the same results?
  2) I am currently using the Dummy and the BUF634 on the G and V and Buffer positions (stock configuration). What are some of the other things I should try in the G and V positions?
   
  Sorry but I have totally no idea what the G and V positions are for and how should I go about playing with them >_<


----------



## estreeter

I used to have a P4 - until I started messing with the G and V positions. I really hope you haven't messed with anything.
   
  (We really need a grave icon to depict dearly departed kit)


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I used to have a P4 - until I started messing with the G and V positions. I really hope you haven't messed with anything.
> 
> (We really need a grave icon to depict dearly departed kit)


 


 What did you do? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am using OPA627 Dual with the BUF634WB and AD797 in G and OPA604 in V.
   
  The bass is uber strong and punchy on my ES5. I suddenly felt like I have inherited a basshead iem


----------



## uelover

Is it a good idea to put my Dual OPA627AU on the L/R channel and to get 2X Single OPA627BP for the G and V??
   
  I am thinking of sticking on OPA627 as the main opamp and the BUF634PWB as the buffers but am not sure which are good for G and V.
   
  I threw in OPA604 into both of them and they sounds really easy to listen to.


----------



## CJG888

I have now had a chance to listen to my new P4. Initial impressions:
   
  - A very clear, detailed sound with a good soundstage and impressive dynamics (for a portable),
  - On the bright side of neutral with the stock op-amp configuration.
   
  Overall, it seems like good value for money (1,499 RMB, about GBP 150).
   
  So far, I have been using it primarily with my GR07s (for which, after all, I bought it!). The op-amp configuration is still stock (and will stay so until it is run in and I am familiar with the sonic signature), but I have switched it to low gain (otherwise the difference between inaudible and deafening on IEMs was about one degree on the volume control! I have also noticed that the sound quality has improved after this move, suggesting that either the impedance matching on low gain is better, or that the volume pot is not performing at its best at very low levels.
   
  I tried it (on high gain!) with my HD600s, but was disappointed. It drove them, in the technical sense of the word, but the sound was flat and lifeless. Given its form factor and price, this wasn't entirely surprising, though. I hope that it will perform better with my new FA-003s (waiting for me back in the UK), as these are easier to drive and have a low impedance - and will figure in my "hotel room" system.
   
  As I bought my P4 here in China, it shipped without English instructions. I have downloaded a very basic manual from iBasso's website, but there is very little information of op-amp rolling (other than an inventory of what is in the box). Is there a "beginner's guide" available to prevent me from doing something stupid? I have read that at least one contributor has already dispatched his P4 to the hereafter by plugging the wrong chip in the wrong socket.....
   
  Also - what is meant by a "static-free environment"? Should I wear an earthed wrist-strap when handling the ICs? Do I need a special insertion and removal tool?
   
  Finally, I have noticed that some of you recommend op-amps which are not included in the package. Can I obtain these from RS or Maplin, or are there specialised sources for these?


----------



## HiFlight

cjg888 said:


> I have now had a chance to listen to my new P4. Initial impressions:
> 
> - A very clear, detailed sound with a good soundstage and impressive dynamics (for a portable),
> - On the bright side of neutral with the stock op-amp configuration.
> ...




The P4 guide that you downloaded from the iBasso website should provide all the information that you need for swapping opamps. It is important to correctly identify which opamps are for L/R, and which are for the buffers. 

The L/R sockets can use either single or dual-channel opamps, with the center socket being used for dual-channels. The buffers are only single-channels as is are the 2 outside G & V sockets for the ground. Just remember: Center socket=Dual-channel, side-by-side sockets=single-channel. Also, it is very important to insert the opamps with the correct polarity as shown in the User manual. 

As the space is pretty crowded inside, I use a small curved medical gripper (haemostat) to insert and remove opamps. These are very inexpensive and can be found at nearly all flea markets. Avoid pressing directly on the opamps when inserting, rather press evenly around the edges of the adapter to seat it into the socket, as the tiny solder joints are rather fragile. 

I have never used a grounding wristband for rolling opamps and have never had any static damage. You can always discharge any static electricity in your body by touching something metal that is grounded to earth. 

IMO, the ground channel has as much influence on SQ as do the L/R channel opamps. iBasso has included a very nice selection of amps in the stock rolling kit. You might consider trying the AD797 in the G & V sockets. If using single-channel opamps in the ground sockets, both G & V sockets must be use with either dummy opamps or single-channel. If you use a dual-channel in the center socket, the G & V sockets can be left empty. 

With the proper configuration, the P4 should prove to be an outstanding amplifier for your Senns.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> Also - what is meant by a "static-free environment"? Should I wear an earthed wrist-strap when handling the ICs? Do I need a special insertion and removal tool?


 
  In a humid climate there should be no problem. If in a dry one, like here in Tucson, AZ, static can build up and you need to ground yourself to discharge an static as that release of energy can ruin IC's. In China, there are few areas where it isn't humid so it shouldn't be a problem unless you are out in the desert.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> Finally, I have noticed that some of you recommend op-amps which are not included in the package. Can I obtain these from RS or Maplin, or are there specialised sources for these?


 

 Being from the UK I can tell you that there are some places better than others for buying opamps. Maplin don't stock anything decent period! just the generic cheap opamps that are already bettered by what was supplied in the P4 kit.
   
  I do get a few TI samples here and there from TI themselves but mainly I buy my opamps from Farnell or RS Components (normally Farnell). Anything exotic can be found via other reputable channels and some can be had here in the classifieds now and again. Ron (HiFlight) has been a source for the best opamp combinations of pretty much all ibasso amps over time. Like me he is a big lover of the ibasso amps as the majority punch way above their weight....


----------



## estreeter

I wasnt overly impressed with the P4 for the first 20-30 hours - by the 50 hour mark, I had stopped 'trying too hard' and that was when I really started enjoying the effortless power of this inexpensive little amp.


----------



## estreeter

FWIW, I don't agree with everything Headfonia Mike has to say, and he should be wearing an 'RSA #1 Fan' t-shirt when he writes amp reviews (!), but I found this particular aside interesting when he compared various balanced amps to their single-ended competition:
   
   
 _Some people ask me how the amps would sound if they are only using the single ended section, perhaps because they haven’t got the proper balanced cable for every single headphones in their possession._

 _If you’re in the Ray Samuels camp, then I can say that you’ll be better off with the single ended amplifiers, either the SR-71A, the Mustang, or the Shadow depending on your needs. Those three amps will give you a better sound quality in single ended than you will get with the SR-71B or the Protector in single ended. *If you’re in the Ibasso camp. Then I would gladly steer you toward the P4 Warbler, as it will give you a better sound in single ended than you get on the PB-1 and the PB-2.*_

 Given that I've never heard the PB-1/PB-2, and Skylab made the point that the balanced amps take virtually everything up another level when operating in balanced mode, I might be quoting that sentence out of context, but ask yourself this : of the top-tier solid state desktop amps, *how many support balanced output* ? Even the Violectric V200 only has single-ended output (ok - balanced input for pro studio gear, and its sibling the V181 has balanced output), and many Head-Fiers who own amps with balanced out also use the unbalanced HO, simply because very few of us can afford cables/adapters for all our headphones. 

 If there is a point to this rant, its that the humble single-ended portable may have been forgotten in the wild race to balanced amps, and that trend could well gain new impetus with the release of the Rx MK3 : for those with more frugal bank balances (and less money for cabling), I'm happy that the single-ended portable amp is still a good option in the ~$250+ market.


----------



## CJG888

Thanks for the advice!
   
  As I will be making my annual visit to the UK in a few weeks, can you recommend any good op-amps (other than those included in the kit that came with the amp) that I should pick up while I am there?


----------



## SpudHarris

Definately worth trying LME49990, OPA1611/OPA1612. My set up after many, many, many hours of listening/testing is: LT1678 in L/R with HA5002 buffers and an ISL55002 in the centre ground socket. Sounds like an amp costing many times what it actually did.


----------



## uelover

spudharris said:


> Definately worth trying LME49990, OPA1611/OPA1612. My set up after many, many, many hours of listening/testing is: LT1678 in L/R with HA5002 buffers and an ISL55002 in the centre ground socket. Sounds like an amp costing many times what it actually did.




Where to get the ISL55002? LME49990 should be extremely detailed, a little bright and lean sounding right?


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





uelover said:


> Where to get the ISL55002? LME49990 should be extremely detailed, a little bright and lean sounding right?


 

 The LME49990 is anything but, it's beautifully transparent, yes it is detailed but it is full sounding and not metalic or sterile which is what I found the LME49710 to be over time. Remember, that when opamp rolling, circuits are generally not optimised for the chip you drop in so results will vary. The P4 seems to work very well with a lot of chips but we will all have favourites.
   
  Mine are: LME49990, LT1678, OPA1611, OPA1641, ADA4637B, OPA602BP.
   
  I love the OPA602CM (TO99) in my EF-5, it is the best opamp I have heard but it's not suited to the P4 at all. Proof again that results will vary dependant on many things, I suspect power makes a difference on this occasion.


----------



## Varley

I'm very interested in the amount of switch and play that you can do with this amp, I may well be picking one up soon - I just don't have many IEM's / Cans that would benefit fully from the P4


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





varley said:


> I'm very interested in the amount of switch and play that you can do with this amp, I may well be picking one up soon - I just don't have many IEM's / Cans that would benefit fully from the P4


 

 You have much more iems/cans than I do that will benefit fully from the P4.


----------



## iop5566

hi. i am wondering, using only the buffers and opamp from the p4 package, which set up(in regards to opamp rolling) will be the best if i wish to get a more detailed sound? and also which set up will give me move bass? i am new to opamp rolling and  it would reallly help me and the community if someone could take a picture of the set up or link us to the post if a picture like this is already in the thread. sorry if i sound very demanding. i sincerely apologise.
   
  Regards,
  Someone who wish to maximise his p4's abilities...


----------



## CJG888

I have noticed that some op-amps and buffers come in surface-mount packaging. Obviously, it is then necessary to solder them to a small PCB in order to plug them into an IC socket. Where can I buy such PCBs? Oh, and - what is the best way to solder surface-mount ICs? Do I need to heat-sink each pin as I solder it? I presume I need to use an ordinary rosin-core solder (NOT silver) with a low melting point, to avoid frying the chip......
   
   
  BTW - is it normal for OPA627BPs to cost over GBP30 each? No worse than NOS tubes, I suppose!


----------



## SpudHarris

Search e-bay for ''soic to dip'' adapters on e-bay.
   
  OPA627BP are expensive and there are better chips out there costing a lot less. Most are listed in this thread.... I'm off to work now so don't have time to list now but will do later if you wish.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Search e-bay for ''soic to dip'' adapters on e-bay.
> 
> OPA627BP are expensive and there are better chips out there costing a lot less. Most are listed in this thread.... I'm off to work now so don't have time to list now but will do later if you wish.


 

 I find OPA627 to be nothing fantastic but it works generally well with everything thrown at it. You will never get listening fatigue with it onboard but you will also not be able to get that kind of excitement that makes you wanna get up of your seat and dance.


----------



## HiFlight

Some opamps that work well in the P4 are THS4032, ISL55002, LT1355, LT1678 AD8599, OPA2209, OPA1642, OPA1612 just to name a few. All of these are less expensive than the OP627/637. 

iBasso has also included a very nice selection in the P4 rolling kit.


----------



## estreeter

Forget RMAF - we need to get Ron and Spudley in a room to talk us through every conceivable combination of opamps/buffers, following by an afternoon prac session and extensive DBT. I'd love to put the P4 up against some of its more fancied single-ended opposition.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Forget RMAF - we need to get Ron and Spudley in a room to talk us through every conceivable combination of opamps/buffers, following by an afternoon prac session and extensive DBT. I'd love to put the P4 up against some of its more fancied single-ended opposition.


 

 Not to forget the most important thing - the supply of all the opamps.
   
  We can forget about Ron abd Spudley. Just leave all the opamps/buffers there and it will be good enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
jk.


----------



## estreeter

You're a real team player, uelover.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> You're a real team player, uelover.


 






   
  Anyone knows if this works with the P4??
http://coolfungadget.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91


----------



## HiFlight

uelover said:


> :evil:
> 
> Anyone knows if this works with the P4??
> http://coolfungadget.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=91




That adapter would fit and probably work OK, but the price is "too good to be true" as the cost from most suppliers is about $24 EACH for the OPA627AP. The adapter, sockets, resistors and labor to assemble would add yet more to the cost. Perhaps the opamps are counterfeit rather than authentic Burr-Brown?? 

I would want proof of authenticity before ordering.


----------



## SpudHarris

x2
   
  I'm with Ron on this, there are a lot of fakes around unfortunately. I learned the hard way in the early days and unless I am 110% sure I generally buy from trusted sources like Farnell, Digikey, Mouser or RS. Of course I do get a few samples from source also 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The old saying still stands - If it looks too good to be true, then it probably is...... My advice would be to buy from a genuine source and do the mod yourself.


----------



## uelover

Actually that guy is one of the seller of the Matrix M-Stage headamp. Quite well-known though. He modded that opamp specially for the M-Stage V2.
   
  I got my Dual OPA627 from Vintage Audio Lab. Cost me about the same amount as this one.


----------



## CJG888

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Some opamps that work well in the P4 are THS4032, ISL55002, LT1355, LT1678 AD8599, OPA2209, OPA1642, OPA1612 just to name a few. All of these are less expensive than the OP627/637.
> iBasso has also included a very nice selection in the P4 rolling kit.


 


 Thanks for the heads-up!
   
  I presume these are all for the L/R sockets.....
   
  In your experience (you seem to have more than most users), which of these are the best for soundstag and dynamics?


----------



## Huxley

So what is the p4 like compared to say fiio e7, am i in for quite a leap in sound?


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





huxley said:


> So what is the p4 like compared to say fiio e7, am i in for quite a leap in sound?


 
  Yes, It is a different class in term of power, transparency, detail, soundstage..
   
  BTW E7 is DAC+AMP... should be compared with D-Zero?


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





huxley said:


> So what is the p4 like compared to say fiio e7, am i in for quite a leap in sound?


 


  That will depend entirely on your source - with a poor source, I believe the P4 will actually bite you very badly.


----------



## Huxley

Source is my sansa fuze with custom lod, i think there's decent caps inside paid enough for the thing.
   
  And i run 320kbps or flac where i can.I do have lower bitrates but that tends to be edm, so not really vital there as the dj's tend to mix things up anyway, if you get what i mean.
   
  And yeah i know the e7 is a dac/amp but it's the only portable amp i have atm, i went for the warbler because it represents such good value, from what i've read it holds it's own with more expensive models.
   
  Aah, you're the guy who put a drillbit through his p4, that must have been rather gutting.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> That will depend entirely on your source - with a poor source, I believe the P4 will actually bite you very badly.


 

  
  No that is not true. It depends on the internal opamps configuration. P4 is a chameleon.


----------



## HiFlight

uelover said:


> No that is not true. It depends on the internal opamps configuration. P4 is a chameleon.




I am with estreeter on this one...poor source = poor sound regardless of choice of opamps.


----------



## uelover

hiflight said:


> I am with estreeter on this one...poor source = poor sound regardless of choice of opamps.




estreeter is saying that with poor source p4 will make the sound even more unbearable.

I'm not saying that p4 is a magic box that will make poor source sounds like good source. I'm saying that you can roll the opamp to make it not as revealing when the source is poor so as to not aggravate the problem.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





uelover said:


> estreeter is saying that with poor source p4 will make the sound even more unbearable.
> I'm not saying that p4 is a magic box that will make poor source sounds like good source. I'm saying that you can roll the opamp to make it not as revealing when the source is poor so as to not aggravate the problem.


 


  My advice is to quit while you're behind. Trying to mask a poor source by rolling opamps is just bonkers. I dont have a problem with the OP using a Fuze as his source - it reportedly measures very well - but I wanted to make the point for anyone who sees a portable amp as a cure-all : that just hasnt been my experience with anything other than the ZO2. 
   
  OP, yes it was underwhelming when I trashed the P4, but I have a few other amps and the uHA-120 is on the same level as the P4, if not quite as powerful. Sadly 2012 looks like being a year where I have to show a little fiscal restraint. so it may be 2013 before I can purchase another P4 - its all good.


----------



## uelover

Quote:


estreeter said:


> My advice is to quit while you're behind. Trying to mask a poor source by rolling opamps is just bonkers. I dont have a problem with the OP using a Fuze as his source - it reportedly measures very well - but I wanted to make the point for anyone who sees a portable amp as a cure-all : that just hasnt been my experience with anything other than the ZO2.


 
   
  I get your point. But life is not a bed of rose whereby you could always have a good source - e.g., when I need to listen to a track recorded by my friend that was recorded badly and was encoded in 96kbps MP3 format. Not everyone is an audiophile or sound engineer, we live with normal common people who don't really care about SQ.
   
  If we could, no one will choose a bad source over a good source. But under a constraint, we can be rest assured that we can opamp roll the P4 so that it will not emphasize the weakness even more and make the listening even more unbearable.
   
  If you enjoy to listen to every single flaws in a poorly recorded tracks, then go ahead with the most detailed sounding and revealing opamps. No one's going to stop you. But it is wrong to say that P4 will bite you on poor source because certainly it will not when you can choose a set of other opamps to mask the poorness of the source.
   
  It is not like using an ESS Sabre chipset DAC on songs recorded in the audio podcast format. It will surely make you cry because it will be better to just unplug the DAC and listen direct from the PC.


----------



## Huxley

With regards to source, the reason im using the fuze is purely as it means i can use an lod, i have a cowon s9 and i will try it but i don't like double amping for very obvious reasons.
   
  Plus im not big on apple, ok so they 'might' be the best solution but i don't like them as a corporation.
   
  Perhaps you folks know of any better options?
   
  Im thinking perhaps a hifiman 602 or sflo2?


----------



## estreeter

Huxley, while no-one knows what the price will be, I would hold off until January when iBasso finally give us the price on the DX100. I have absolutely no idea whether it will live up to the spec sheet, but it promises (on paper) to be a killer all-in-one solution.


----------



## estreeter

@uelover, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I only know that the ZO2 is the only device I own which makes the headphone out on my laptop sound 'good'  - not stellar, but good enough. For everything else, I need a USB DAC in the mix - clearly, not a viable option for portable rigs unless you are prepared to spend serious money on the CLAS/HP-P1. I'm not.


----------



## Huxley

Woah it has a sabre ess dac, that will be mental if it lives up to the hype.
   
  Err ok i think i can manage to hold off till then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Huxley, while no-one knows what the price will be, I would hold off until January when iBasso finally give us the price on the DX100. I have absolutely no idea whether it will live up to the spec sheet, but it promises (on paper) to be a killer all-in-one solution.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> @uelover, we are going to have to agree to disagree. I only know that the ZO2 is the only device I own which makes the headphone out on my laptop sound 'good'  - not stellar, but good enough. For everything else, I need a USB DAC in the mix - clearly, not a viable option for portable rigs unless you are prepared to spend serious money on the CLAS/HP-P1. I'm not.


 


  You are missing my point. But it is ok. Life have more important things than bickering over little stuffs =)
   
  I am just trying to drive the point across to other head-fiers that the P4 is really not an unforgiving amp when used with poor sources - it can sounds comfortable with poor sources or terrific with good sources.
   
   
  For your info, CLAS is only going to make poor sources sound even worse. I have own it before and listening to poorly recorded tracks are unbearable. Also, it is not a DAC for laptop.


----------



## estreeter

I did say *portable* when referring to the CLAS / HP-P1 - I consider netbooks/notebooks 'transportable', but I guess its semantics.


----------



## Huxley

Well i now have my little black warbler.
   
  Nice quality feel to it, i can't wait to fire her up.
   
  Couple questions though.
   
  How long for the initial charge, and where do i get a black knob from?


----------



## SpudHarris

Hmmm, that old ''black knob' thing again..... I got mine from the coal bunker door. Seriously though I've bought quite a few over the years from here http://www.banzaimusic.com/Metal/


----------



## paulybatz

RS1i  powered by the IBASSO P4, sourced by CD via the IBASSO DB1
   
  Very full sound...listening to James McBride LIVE....Part of the band sitting on the stage with them!
   
  Ufront...perfection!
   
  LONG TIME YA'LL hope everyone is well...listen responsibly!


----------



## Huxley

Lol any idea on what size mate, i lost my calipers ages ago and never got around to buying a new set.
   
  Tried the amp today and first impressions are neutral and dynamic with a wide soundstage, with a tiny bit of sibilance.
   
  I could use a bit less treble, and a hint of warmth that'll do it, but for now i'll just break it in and have fun.
   
  Besides i don't want to fry the thing by getting the op amps wrong.
   
  Pics will probably be involved, along with lots of pdf reading.
   
  Oh and my el cheapo phillips she3580 adore this amp, it really brings them out in the open. Id swear they're a £100 dynamic just by sound alone.
  
  Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hmmm, that old ''black knob' thing again..... I got mine from the coal bunker door. Seriously though I've bought quite a few over the years from here http://www.banzaimusic.com/Metal/


----------



## paulybatz

LCD-2 (rev1) with the P4 is phenomenal....however, I just cannot put to words the presentation, it just begs for more listening, AND is one of the sexiest set of cans I have ever seen!


----------



## NewAKGGuy

What kind of battery life have you folks been getting on this monster.  Love my P3+ but could use more power for my 702s.  Feels like the P4 is the right next amp for me (maybe even good enough to sell the RSA) but I am somewhat put off by the fixed battery.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## paulybatz

I never use it in a portable situation for very long at all...usually sits on top of my desk, nightstand or end table plugged in


----------



## paulybatz

Here is a little headphone and amp porn for ya!
   
  LCD-2 (rev1)
   
  I have the D6 in DAC mode to the P4 with a custom silver mini to mini, the P4 definitely "drives" these phones!
   
  *dont normally listen to this type of music through phones but David Guetta station on PANDORA...excellent experience!


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> Here is a little headphone and amp porn for ya!
> 
> LCD-2 (rev1)
> 
> ...


 

 Sweet.
   
  I was wondering how the P4 would do with tougher phones like these and the 702s!  Sounds like I'll be good to go if the battery life checks out.


----------



## uelover

In my experience, the Stepdance works much much better with LCD2 than P4.
   
  P4 + LCD2 = anemic performance


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





uelover said:


> In my experience, the Stepdance works much much better with LCD2 than P4.
> 
> P4 + LCD2 = anemic performance


 
  I have no idea what op amps you are using but that sure isn't my experience.


----------



## uelover

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have no idea what op amps you are using but that sure isn't my experience.


 
   
  Stock opamp configuration.
   
  P4 with LCD2 sounds better than many other amps out there but totally pale in comparison to Stepdance when driving the LCD2.


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





uelover said:


> In my experience, the Stepdance works much much better with LCD2 than P4.
> 
> P4 + LCD2 = anemic performance


 

 Actually, its more like in "your opinion" my friend...P4 is a fantastic little amp.


----------



## SoupRKnowva

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> Actually, its more like in "your opinion" my friend...P4 is a fantastic little amp.


 
  /rant
  
  i dont really understand the obsession with people writing imo....of course its their opinion, they freaking wrote it...typically if you're expressing someone elses opinion you would specify that
   
  /endrant


----------



## Il Mostro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> /rant
> 
> i dont really understand the obsession with people writing imo....of course its their opinion, they freaking wrote it...typically if you're expressing someone elses opinion you would specify that
> 
> /endrant


 


   


  Quote: 





il mostro said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c


 
   
  This is great...love rants...dont like hijackers


----------



## SpudHarris

Well just my 2 cents but.....
   
  I owned the 2Stepdance, I researched it a lot and had several conversations with Jan himself regarding the SQ of the 2Stepdance compared to the original (OPA121 compared to OPA1611) and he assured me that no comprimises were made with the SQ of the 2Stepdance. I say this because I never compared the original Stepdance with the P4. I did however compare the 2Stepdance with the P4 and sold it fairly soon after as the P4 was superior in many ways and as a bonus cost less also. The P4 is an amazing amp. I have (and have had) quite a few portable and home/desktops and I can tell you the P4 punches way, way above it's modest price tag. With the right chipset (yes this can add to the overall cost) it can compete with amps costing considerably more,
   
  I am running OPA627AM's in LR + HA5002 Buffers and  ISL55002 in G/VG at the moment and I am astonished by the SQ and versatility to cope with IEM's and full sized cans. The other thing to consider is the fact that you can tune it to suit your tastes and phones by swapping out the opamps and/or buffers. I doubt I will ever part with my P4.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Well just my 2 cents but.....
> 
> I owned the 2Stepdance, I researched it a lot and had several conversations with Jan himself regarding the SQ of the 2Stepdance compared to the original (OPA121 compared to OPA1611) and he assured me that no comprimises were made with the SQ of the 2Stepdance. I say this because I never compared the original Stepdance with the P4. I did however compare the 2Stepdance with the P4 and sold it fairly soon after as the P4 was superior in many ways and as a bonus cost less also. The P4 is an amazing amp. I have (and have had) quite a few portable and home/desktops and I can tell you the P4 punches way, way above it's modest price tag. With the right chipset (yes this can add to the overall cost) it can compete with amps costing considerably more,
> 
> I am running OPA627AM's in LR + HA5002 Buffers and  ISL55002 in G/VG at the moment and I am astonished by the SQ and versatility to cope with IEM's and full sized cans. The other thing to consider is the fact that you can tune it to suit your tastes and phones by swapping out the opamps and/or buffers. I doubt I will ever part with my P4.


 
  X2


----------



## gl4mrock80

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> RS1i  powered by the IBASSO P4, sourced by CD via the IBASSO DB1
> 
> Very full sound...listening to James McBride LIVE....Part of the band sitting on the stage with them!
> 
> ...


 


  looks very tempting...i get rs1i two months ago and still looking for portable amp and dac combo for my rs1i and always wondering how they sound pair with ibasso P4, my question is....how a combination between P4 and Rs1i in presenting Rock Music, especially speed metal?...whether good enough?....thanks before and sorry for my poor english


----------



## paulybatz

You will not be disappointed with the P4 and if you are, you can roll the OPAMPS to custom the sound to your liking, its a WIN WIN


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Bump - still looking for folks' opinions on battery life.  Anyone?


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





souprknowva said:


> /rant
> 
> i dont really understand the obsession with people writing imo....of course its their opinion, they freaking wrote it...typically if you're expressing someone elses opinion you would specify that
> 
> /endrant


 


  Rant on, but I'm with Pauly, Spud and others when they say the P4 has gobs of power for a portable amp - its effortless. How that translates to driving a pair of large, heavy headphones that only a fanatic would take out of the house is a question I cant answer. Keep it real, however, and this little amp will deliver as much power as most sane people will ever need. Those who need an inexpensive amp to drive something like the LCD-2 might be happier with a desktop like the M-Stage or something from Schiit.


----------



## trentino

I'm still looking at maybe buying the P4. Have been thinking about it for months. I don't like how the hd600 sounds from my db2/pb2, and something tells me the p4 would do a better job with the hd600. I think it's the somewhat bright sound coming from the pb2 that I don't like together with the already bright hd600 (bright to my ears that is - compared to the dark hd650). I love the hd650 balanced from the pb2 though, but the hd600 are collecting dust. Anyone used the p4 with hd600? Or, can anyone comment on the p4 maybe being somewhat "darker" sounding than pb2 single ended?


----------



## paulybatz

I would suggest balancing the HD600...and then rolling opamps to get the sound you want...I find that nothing satisfied me more than balancing my HD650s


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Rant on, but I'm with Pauly, Spud and others when they say the P4 has gobs of power for a portable amp - its effortless. How that translates to driving a pair of large, heavy headphones that only a fanatic would take out of the house is a question I cant answer. Keep it real, however, and this little amp will deliver as much power as most sane people will ever need.


 

 I LOVE my LCD-2 with the P4...fed by the new IBASSO D7
   

   
   
  Little HF-porn for ya


----------



## trentino

They are balanced from the pb2. I was talking about the hd600 sounding too bright and harsh from pb2, I wanted opinions on the p4, if it is less bright sounding than pb2. With stock op amps, both pb2 and p4. Because I have not entered the op amp rolling thing. It scares me a bit actually.
  
   
  Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> I would suggest balancing the HD600...and then rolling opamps to get the sound you want...I find that nothing satisfied me more than balancing my HD650s


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





trentino said:


> They are balanced from the pb2. I was talking about the hd600 sounding too bright and harsh from pb2, I wanted opinions on the p4, if it is less bright sounding than pb2. With stock op amps, both pb2 and p4. Because I have not entered the op amp rolling thing. It scares me a bit actually.


 

 Just ask folks in the thread about warm opamps...hiflight sells the kits


----------



## HiFlight

While I no longer have my HD600's, I can't address your issue of the stock PB2 sounding too harsh and bright, but that is certainly not what I would call the native sound of the PB2. Given a proper source and used with balanced phones, it offers quite a well-balanced sound across the entire audio spectrum. 

Rolling opamps will not make major changes in the SQ of the amp, as the differences between opamps (that are appropriate for use in a given amp) are subtle and the differences are more apparent in soundstaging and imaging. If you want a warmer sound, I would suggest that use of EQ is a more appropriate way of achieving the sound you want. 

The PB2 is designed for balanced use and will deliver the best sound using the balanced outputs. The stock SQ is more neutral than warm and again, opamp rolling results in changes more appropriately called "tweaks" rather than major changes in SQ. 

Harsh strident highs are more likely the result of a poor source somewhere upstream of the PB2, as the HD600 is not a headphone that typically exhibits this type of SQ nor is the PB2. 

While the P4 offers more options for customizing by having socketed L/R, buffers, and ground, changing components will not make night and day changes in the SQ of the amp. The stock SQ of both the PB2 and P4 are more similar than different, with both having excellent tonal accuracy and balance as well as enough output power to drive any dynamic headphone to headbanging levels. 

IMO, the P4 sounds better than the PB2 when using non-balanced phones from the SE output of the PB2.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> While I no longer have my HD600's, I can't address your issue of the stock PB2 sounding too harsh and bright, but that is certainly not what I would call the native sound of the PB2. Given a proper source and used with balanced phones, it offers quite a well-balanced sound across the entire audio spectrum.
> Rolling opamps will not make major changes in the SQ of the amp, as the differences between opamps (that are appropriate for use in a given amp) are subtle and the differences are more apparent in soundstaging and imaging. If you want a warmer sound, I would suggest that use of EQ is a more appropriate way of achieving the sound you want.
> The PB2 is really designed for balanced use and will deliver the best sound using the balanced outputs. The stock SQ is more neutral than warm and again, opamp rolling results in changes more appropriately called "tweaks" rather than major changes in SQ.
> Harsh strident highs are more likely the result of a poor source somewhere upstream of the PB2, as the HD600 is not a headphone that typically exhibits this type of SQ nor is the PB2.


 

 Thanks for that, Ron - we see so many 'just roll op-amps' recommendations as an instant fix for almost everything, and I'm not convinced that's the case. SpudHarris and yourself are pretty much the only people whose op-amp recommendations I am prepared to consider.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Thanks for that, Ron - we see so many 'just roll op-amps' recommendations as an instant fix for almost everything, and I'm not convinced that's the case. SpudHarris and yourself are pretty much the only people whose op-amp recommendations I am prepared to consider.


 

 Haha, I get most of my recommendations from Ron....
   
  That said, I am really enjoying the LME49990's at the moment and not sure what Ron's take is on these. I have rolled them into most of my amps. I listend to my HD600's last night with the P4 and have to say I had a very enjoyable session. I don't remember what the stock configuration is/was but as Ron said, the differences are mostly subtle and mostly to do with soundstage and imaging which add to my enjoyment more than colouration. The P4 is able to power the HD600's easily and I think they are very well suited. I didn't compare the DB2/PB2 in balanced mode as I really didn't want to change anything about the P4 and HD600's so carried on listening.....


----------



## trentino

Thanks guys. I think I simply enjoy the hd650 more than hd600 overall. Simple as that. But, I'm gonna get the p4 anyway for use with other hp's, and will keep the LME49990 in mind. Thanks for the responses.


----------



## HiFlight

spudharris said:


> Haha, I get most of my recommendations from Ron....
> 
> That said, I am really enjoying the LME49990's at the moment and not sure what Ron's take is on these. I have rolled them into most of my amps. I listend to my HD600's last night with the P4 and have to say I had a very enjoyable session. I don't remember what the stock configuration is/was but as Ron said, the differences are mostly subtle and mostly to do with soundstage and imaging which add to my enjoyment more than colouration. The P4 is able to power the HD600's easily and I think they are very well suited. I didn't compare the DB2/PB2 in balanced mode as I really didn't want to change anything about the P4 and HD600's so carried on listening.....




I have in my opamp stock the LME4562, LME49860 and LME49990. They are all very good opamps that have been specifically designed for audio use rather than industrial applications. My personal preference of the 3 is the 49860, as it seems to perform the same all of the iBasso amps, whereas the other two seemed to be more model-specific. 

Some who prefer "warm" may find these to be a bit too analytical for their tastes. They might also be a bit on the bright side when used with such phones as the ER-4 and some Grado models if ones listening preferences tend to favor the warm side.


----------



## estreeter

Thanks Ron - it sounds like the LME49860, on paper at least, should mate well with phones like the RE262/RE272. At this point I am gripping my pursestrings very tightly indeed - every time I go to the iBasso site, I look at the price on the D7 and it just doesnt compute that iBasso are giving us so much for relatively few bucks. I'm sure you will recall that there were precious few (professionally built) portable amps under 300USD just 3 short years ago, and adding a DAC to your amp pushed the price up by at least $100.


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Thanks Ron - it sounds like the LME49860, on paper at least, should mate well with phones like the RE262/RE272. At this point I am gripping my pursestrings very tightly indeed - every time I go to the iBasso site, I look at the price on the D7 and it just doesnt compute that iBasso are giving us so much for relatively few bucks. I'm sure you will recall that there were precious few (professionally built) portable amps under 300USD just 3 short years ago, and adding a DAC to your amp pushed the price up by at least $100.


 
   
  It DOESNT compute....it is simply the best bang for the buck if you need basically the best trans"portable" DAC and a pretty nice amp for under 200
   
  I was talking to someone the other day that I hit HEAD-FI at just the right time, right when IBASSO set the new standard for quality and price


----------



## CJG888

Quote: 





newakgguy said:


> Bump - still looking for folks' opinions on battery life.  Anyone?


 


   
   
  I ended up sending mine back and am currently eagerly awaiting the replacement unit (should get here tomorrow). It seems that there must be at least one batch out there with dodgy batteries (discharges itself completely over 24-36 hours, even if unused and disconnected - regardless of op-amp configuration). The old unit gave about 7 hours' battery life driving GR07s or HF5s - this was also obviously not OK.
   
  Incidentally, I've found that it works extremely well driving FA-003s - there seems to be a real synergy here.....


----------



## NewAKGGuy

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> I ended up sending mine back and am currently eagerly awaiting the replacement unit (should get here tomorrow). It seems that there must be at least one batch out there with dodgy batteries (discharges itself completely over 24-36 hours, even if unused and disconnected - regardless of op-amp configuration). The old unit gave about 7 hours' battery life driving GR07s or HF5s - this was also obviously not OK.
> 
> Incidentally, I've found that it works extremely well driving FA-003s - there seems to be a real synergy here.....


 
   
  Eww.  Let us know how the new one pans out.


----------



## Raideen

Quote: 





cee tee said:


> Don't have my Sony LOD yet, but:


 

 This was posted quite a while ago, but I just saw it. What I want to know is where did you get those rubber(?) straps? It seems like a much better solution to carrying an amp around with your DAP than sticking velcro on the bottom. If anyone knows what these straps are, please let me know! Thanks.


----------



## HiFlight

raideen said:


> This was posted quite a while ago, but I just saw it. What I want to know is where did you get those rubber(?) straps? It seems like a much better solution to carrying an amp around with your DAP than sticking velcro on the bottom. If anyone knows what these straps are, please let me know! Thanks.




Here is one source....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silicone-Wristbands-Wrist-Bands-Rubber-Bracelets-0-75-SHIPPING-BUY-10-FREE-/110761334152?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item5f78b4d072#ht_500wt_966


----------



## estreeter

Oooh - loving the hot pink wristbands, Ron !  
   
  Fashionistas aside, I would note the price on these. Stamp 'ALO Audio' on them and I guarantee that they would cost significantly more. Oh, wait ..
   
  http://aloaudio.com/alo-audio-silicone-amp-straps-black-with-logo.html


----------



## SpudHarris

You are naughty! What on earth are you trying to say?


----------



## estreeter

Only that we are slaves to marketing and the need to express our rabid consumerism by paying for the privilege of advertising someone else's brand. Could be worse - I dont spend a single cent on fashion, but those who do really know what it means to pay for a visible label.


----------



## Raideen

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for your reply!


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Only that we are slaves to marketing and the need to express our rabid consumerism by paying for the privilege of advertising someone else's brand. Could be worse - I dont spend a single cent on fashion, but those who do really know what it means to pay for a visible label.


 

 Yeah, know what you are saying. I prefer the plain black ones over the printed ones anyway.


----------



## trentino

Thanks for that Ebay link. Just ordered a couple. Will keep my db2/pb2 close together


----------



## paulybatz

SEXY in the dark!!!!
   
  D7 feeding the P4---DIY silver IC....feeding LCD-2

 NIRVANA!!!


----------



## Huxley

Well my little volume knob decided to go missing, can't have been screwed on very tight.
   
  Been having a nightmare of a time sourcing a replacement, anyway one of many arrived today and it's ideal [sort of]
   
  It's a mentor 505.613
   
  Perfect size, but the set screw won't go far enough to bite down, luckily it will bite onto the opposite side, and bites down hard.
   
  Finding a 6mm d shape knob is not a problem, finding one with a set screw mission impossible!!
   
  But it ended well, and is on there firm, i have a couple others coming, so we'll see what they're like.
   
  Also it seems farnell sell under a different name on ebay, there's a minimum £20 spend on the uk site, but when i ordered the knob on ebay it came direct from farnell reciept and all.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260877636815?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


----------



## SpudHarris

Cheers for the link, I like the look of that one. If you have more than one I would swap you for an original ibasso know. Recon I must have one or more lay around....


----------



## Huxley

Sadly i don't, but hold on to that thought i have two others coming, and i might want an original one anyway.
   
  You need it to sit close to the body when tightening, as you need the dial to clamp down on the whole thing.
   
  Like i said the bolt isn't long enough to clamp on the flat portion, but do it the opposite side and it works great.
   
  Nice size as well, real small and you can see all the markings on the amp fine, looks like it's original actually.
   
  Took me forever to find one that worked mind.
   
  Only gripe is the set screw is visible, so i'll put a dab of black enamel on it at some point.


----------



## SpudHarris

Well I checked and have 2 x flat (dull) alloy and 1 x shiny one (probably off my old P3+) so if you want one just let me know. Got a pic of your with the new black one? Might just snatch one anyway.


----------



## Huxley

Sure hang fire.
   
  And here they are.


----------



## SpudHarris

That looks great buddy. I definately want one for my P4 and PB2. I wish I could source one of these knobs from the 2Stepdance.


----------



## Huxley

Yeah i've seen similar on ebay, but they have three bands and appear to be too big.
   
  Anyway i have these two yet to arrive.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190626696351?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120751739842?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  The latter might not fit, we shall see.


----------



## CJG888

I am thinking about getting a portable DAC to go with my QLS QA-350 and P4 (ideally, it should also work with an iPad2 via CCK without external power). Which would, in your opinion, make more sense - D12 or DB2? The latter seems more attractive, as I would not be paying for an amp I don't need, and I would have the option of going balanced in the future. Would it be overkill to buy a DB2 for single-ended operation? How do the DAC sections of the two units compare, and are they substantially better than the QLS' onboard DAC?


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> I am thinking about getting a portable DAC to go with my QLS QA-350 and P4 (ideally, it should also work with an iPad2 via CCK without external power). Which would, in your opinion, make more sense - D12 or DB2? The latter seems more attractive, as I would not be paying for an amp I don't need, and I would have the option of going balanced in the future. Would it be overkill to buy a DB2 for single-ended operation? How do the DAC sections of the two units compare, and are they substantially better than the QLS' onboard DAC?


 


  I had a cable made to go from HIROSE to mini out for my DB1...also the D7 is a fantastic DAC unit too
   
  I use the D7 and P4 combo all the time now


----------



## CJG888

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> I had a cable made to go from HIROSE to mini out for my DB1...also the D7 is a fantastic DAC unit too
> 
> I use the D7 and P4 combo all the time now


 


   
   
  Thanks for the advice. As you have tried both, which sounds better: DB1 or D7? Unfortunately, AFAIK, the D7 cannot be used with an iPad2 without a powered USB hub, though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## paulybatz

Quote: 





cjg888 said:


> Thanks for the advice. As you have tried both, which sounds better: DB1 or D7? Unfortunately, AFAIK, the D7 cannot be used with an iPad2 without a powered USB hub, though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Ill have to do some A/B'ing this week for you...but perhaps answered the ? if your IPAD is going to be a main source


----------



## Huxley

Does anyone know of an omp amp config that'll raise the treble and tighten the bass, maybe even widen the soundstage a bit?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





huxley said:


> Does anyone know of an omp amp config that'll raise the treble and tighten the bass, maybe even widen the soundstage a bit?


 
  I would email or PM HiFlight. He has a handle on all of it and has some great kits.


----------



## CJG888

I've found AD797s combined with wideband buffers and dummy adapters on the ground sockets works well for me in this regard. Could still do with a bit more treble extension, though.


----------



## Huxley

Thanks, to both of you im in talks with hiflight who really knows his opamps.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





huxley said:


> Thanks, to both of you im in talks with hiflight who really knows his opamps.


 


  Are you guys talking opamps or corporate takeovers ? You should ask his people to do lunch with your people.


----------



## paulybatz

I like my P4 stock


----------



## Huxley

Well so do i, but i grab my yamaha EPH-100 more than anything else so im looking to improve what they lack in.
   
  The P4 itself is a great amp, can't fault it especially at the price point.


----------



## CJG888

Does anyone know if the P4 will drive the 600 Ohm HD 25-13, or would I be better off with the standard 70 Ohm HD 25-1 II?
   
  My intention is to use them for listening to classical music (source will be an iPod Classic 160GB via Qables LOD). Listening to Wagner must be a possibility 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (IMHO it isn't via IEMs!). I know that the DT-1350s may be the more logical choice, but they are much more expensive....


----------



## civilaudio

After searching the head-fi for combination and opamp orders...
   
  my current second best for the P4 is AD8599 (class A)+ HA-5002(Buffer) + ISL 55002 (G/V)
   
  Edit: After few hours of listening, I changed LT1355 in place of ad8599, this bring the sound stage closer to listener. I think this is the best now.


----------



## HiFlight

civilaudio said:


> After searching the head-fi for combination and opamp orders...
> 
> my current second best for the P4 is AD8599 (class A)+ HA-5002(Buffer) + ISL 55002 (G/V)
> 
> Edit: After few hours of listening, I changed LT1355 in place of ad8599, this bring the sound stage closer to listener. I think this is the best now.




You might give the LT1678 a try in place of the LT1355. IMO, it is better balanced across the audio spectrum and imparts a greater sense of realism. 

I also prefer a dummy adapter in the center ground channel.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





hiflight said:


> You might give the LT1678 a try in place of the LT1355. IMO, it is better balanced across the audio spectrum and imparts a greater sense of realism.
> I also prefer a dummy adapter in the center ground channel.


 

  
  I recalled you mentioned this would be best with the AD797 in G,I tried it with the AD797 but I got some kind of radio interference noise, so I decided to go for other (get opamp from digikey, soldering gun from local store, and some youtube soldering lessons...)
   
  I am listening to 1678 right now in the P4.. I think the ISL55002 is the best in ground, the THS4032 in G/V will add more punch but make sound stage less liquid.
   
  Listening for about 15minutes with LT1678, and compared with the LT1355 and opa1612, I think the sound stage is little deeper, sound separation is better without losing liquidity, but the bass is not as impact as 1355 and 1612. I think The 1612 with HA5002 & nothing in G/V is warmer and punchier...


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> I recalled you mentioned this would be best with the AD797 in G,I tried it with the AD797 but I got some kind of radio interference noise, so I decided to go for other (get opamp from digikey, soldering gun from local store, and some youtube soldering lessons...)
> 
> I am listening to 1678 right now in the P4.. I think the ISL55002 is the best in ground, the THS4032 in G/V will add more punch but make sound stage less liquid.
> 
> Listening for about 15minutes with LT1678, and compared with the LT1355 and opa1612, I think the sound stage is little deeper, sound separation is better without losing liquidity, but the bass is not as impact as 1355 and 1612. I think The 1612 with HA5002 & nothing in G/V is warmer and punchier...


 

 I guess the objectivists here would say 'you guys dug your own hole', but I have never considered 'liquid' to be an appropriate adjective to describe either soundstage or separation. The P4 is a great little amp, but I dont recall anything 'liquid' about my perception of the soundstage with any given source/headphone combination.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I guess the objectivists here would say 'you guys dug your own hole', but I have never considered 'liquid' to be an appropriate adjective to describe either soundstage or separation. The P4 is a great little amp, but I dont recall anything 'liquid' about my perception of the soundstage with any given source/headphone combination.


 


  that's my own word, (not hiflight) to describe something cohesive with parts moving but still sticky. I imagine there are hundred of words out there, but yay, i don't think I had to know all...


----------



## SpudHarris

As some here will know, I have been one of many searching for the perfect P4 set up but there is always gonna be the next best thing in opamps isn't there so we never really seem to stop. Man, it's a terrible obsession really but it's a lot of fun also especially with such a superb little amp.
   
  I have long been a fan of Ron's and have taken (and enjoyed) his recomendations, especially some of the more recent LT opamps. Ron will no doubt keep evolving and bettering the topkits as the next best thing comes along with his critical ear helping find the best combinations of Buffers and G/VG chips to suit.
   
  For those who haven't tried this combination, I would say give it a try. It's been in my P4 for the longest I can remember in terms of set up without changing anything.
   
  L/R - LT1122 (Class A)
  Buffer - HA5002
  Center G/VG - ISL55002
   
  Absolutely stunning performance in every way. I have been rolling a long time and this is the closest I've ever been to stopping......


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> that's my own word, (not hiflight) to describe something cohesive with parts moving but still sticky. I imagine there are hundred of words out there, but yay, i don't think I had to know all...


 

 Its not about 'knowing all' - its about a *shared understanding* of the terms we use to subjectively describe our impressions of kit. Soundstage is variously described in terms of dimension : width, depth and even height. Any 'liquidity' is down to change in some part of the chain, usually thee headphones, but those dimensions are finite once you plug source A into amp B/headphone C. If you change opamps and it changes your soundstage perception, great, but  that stage will still be finite. 
   
  Instrument separation and imaging are also critical to our enjoyment of a given combination, but I have never considered any of the above as having 'parts moving'.  The man who said that talking about music makes as much sense as 'dancing about architecture' may have a point, 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary
   
*Soundstage* - The area between two speakers that appears to the listener to be occupied by sonic images. Like a real stage, a soundstage should have width, depth, and height.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Its not about 'knowing all' - its about a *shared understanding* of the terms we use to subjectively describe our impressions of kit. Soundstage is variously described in terms of dimension : width, depth and even height. Any 'liquidity' is down to change in some part of the chain, usually thee headphones, but those dimensions are finite once you plug source A into amp B/headphone C. If you change opamps and it changes your soundstage perception, great, but  that stage will still be finite.
> 
> Instrument separation and imaging are also critical to our enjoyment of a given combination, but I have never considered any of the above as having 'parts moving'.  The man who said that talking about music makes as much sense as 'dancing about architecture' may have a point,
> 
> ...
 

 I think somewhere you missed my point... I used word to describe my feeling (not yours).
   
  There are several glossares out there, with different descriptions for soundstage. Here is the interesting one http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/bbs/stereophile_audio-glossary.html
   
  If you look up in dictionary, you will find multiple uses of word "liquid"..


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





civilaudio said:


> I think somewhere you missed my point... I used word to describe my feeling (not yours).


 


  Hence my point re 'shared understanding'. We'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> Hence my point re 'shared understanding'. We'll have to agree to disagree.


 

  
  What does it mean "agree to disagree"?


----------



## estreeter

It means we have a different opinion, but there is no point in discussing it further. Lets leave iit there, shall we ?


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





estreeter said:


> It means we have a different opinion, but there is no point in discussing it further. Lets leave iit there, shall we ?


 


  that's fair enough... BTW, I still thinking we are having opinions on "different" things not "disagree" on same thing...


----------



## civilaudio

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> As some here will know, I have been one of many searching for the perfect P4 set up but there is always gonna be the next best thing in opamps isn't there so we never really seem to stop. Man, it's a terrible obsession really but it's a lot of fun also especially with such a superb little amp.
> 
> I have long been a fan of Ron's and have taken (and enjoyed) his recomendations, especially some of the more recent LT opamps. Ron will no doubt keep evolving and bettering the topkits as the next best thing comes along with his critical ear helping find the best combinations of Buffers and G/VG chips to suit.
> 
> ...


 

 I also tried opamp mostly with Hiflight comments in the forum... I am new to the opamps and don't have much other equipments to compare so limited "subjectivity" is something I have to overcome, Hiflight and other comments are really a good start.
   
  Regarding the LT1122, you should have mentioned earlier... so I could order them with other opamp... now I have to think of some extra reasons to put a new order. BTW, the LT1678, after few more hours, is shining again in my P4...


----------



## CJG888

I am currently using the AD797s, together with the discrete transistor buffers and a BUF634P WB in the first ground socket to drive Sennheiser HD25-1 IIs. Whilst it sounds excellent, if I switch the amplifier on before connecting the headphones, there is a constant, loud background hiss which only goes away when the amplifier is switched off and on again. Is this normal, or is there a problem with my chosen configuration? The upshot of this is that I can only switch the P4 on with the headphones connected - will the switch-on thump damage the drivers?


----------



## papaverhybridum

Good points well enunciated, Jam - peace  estreeter


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





papaverhybridum said:


> Good points well enunciated, Jam - peace  estreeter


 

 You rang ?


----------



## paulybatz

Yep, found listening nirvana finally LCD-2 rev1...P4 fed by the D7 DAC
   
  THANK YOU HEAD-FI


----------



## Uchiya

Quote: 





paulybatz said:


> Yep, found listening nirvana finally LCD-2 rev1...P4 fed by the D7 DAC
> 
> THANK YOU HEAD-FI


 
   
  For me, it was finding a match for the DT880 600ohms (yes, the 600ohm version).  Hiflight kit included.  Perfect balance.


----------



## Mooses9

does anyone have any expierence on the sound of the LME49990 and the ibasso p4? any opinions, expierences, what is the sound signature like?


----------



## SpudHarris

I used (and enjoyed) the LME49990 in my P4 for quite some time and have only recently swapped it out for THS4032. Not because the THS4032 is better but just because I fancied a change. The LME49990 will obviously sound different in different circuits but I can tell you that I don't think it will ever sound bad what ever you put it in. It is an amazing OpAmp and no doubt it will go back in my P4 soon. I am using them (LME49990) in my balanced PB-2 as I write this and again, in this iBasso curcuit they are superb in every way.
   
  Specifically with the P4 I found the sound to be almost tubey, in a good way. If you have ever listened to a ''decent'' tube amp you will know that there is a warmth and fullness to the sound but without sacrificing details and I guess that's how I would describe the LME49990 in the P4. It's one of if not ''the'' best OpAmps in the P4. 
   
  I've used this OpAmp in my EF-5 and my Fi-Quest and it shines in all of them.


----------



## estreeter

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> For me, it was finding a match for the DT880 600ohms (yes, the 600ohm version).  Hiflight kit included.  Perfect balance.


 
   
  I have no problem believing that - I rarely needed much more than 9am on the volume pot with any of my low impedance cans - the P4 could be configured for even more power, but that seemed redundant for my needs. I will get another P4 in the fullness of time - great amp.


----------



## Mooses9

went ahead and got the lme49990 for starters. im new to the opamp amplifiers.


----------



## Fringe

Anyone using the P4 with the Q701? Earlier in the thread I saw someone was going to try the P4 with the K701 but I haven't seen any impressions on the pairing.


----------



## estreeter

I think Spud Harris gave it a whirl.


----------



## SpudHarris

I have K702's and haven't used them for a while. I'll give it a whirl tonight and report back. I assume the K702's are pretty much the same. Of course things will be different SQ wise depending on the chipset used.


----------



## Fringe

Awesome thanks!


----------



## Fringe

Just got my Q701 today. Only had a couple hours with them and the P4 but I'm pretty impressed so far.


----------



## SpudHarris

Sorry, I never got to it. i was rolling Opamps/Buffers nearly all night in my PB-2 so only got a 15mins quality listening. I will try and get to it. Glad you are enjoying them though, that's all that counts!


----------



## imackler

Anyone tried the P4 with the HD600? Any thoughts? Searched the thread but didn't find any reflections... 
   
  Quote: 





estreeter said:


> I will get another P4 in the fullness of time - great amp.


 
   
  What happened to your P4? Did you have it still when you got your EHP-O2? The O2 is so impressive. (I wish I still had my O2; now I'm looking for a single amp for my HD600 and maybe RE262.) 
    
  Quote:


spudharris said:


> Sorry, I never got to it. i was rolling Opamps/Buffers nearly all night in my PB-2 so only got a 15mins quality listening. I will try and get to it. Glad you are enjoying them though, that's all that counts!


 
   
   
   
  Did you ever get to? I've got the K550 right now and am wondering what the P4 does w/ the low resistance AKG phones.


----------



## estreeter

My P4 had a nasty accident with a drillbit - comedy of errors, but I'll get another one - its not the same as trashing a pair of LCD-3s. I got the EHP-O2 later, but *personally *I prefer the P4 - that might tick a few people off, and I expect that the O2 has better measurements, but the little iBasso is a better form factor for mine - the EHP-O2 is an awkward design. You would be much better served reading the comments from people like HiFlight and SpudHarris earlier in this thread. Finally, someone did say they sold their P4 because it 'wasnt sufficiently powerful' - I cant remember what they were trying to drive, but that comment drove home the fact that you need to be realistic. If a desktop amp is a better fit for you personally, get a desktop amp.


----------



## estreeter

I would add that one of the reasons that none of the above tried to write a fullblown 'review' of the P4 is that it's not 'one amp' - the extensive opamp / buffer combinations give P4 owners the ability to create a more powerful amp with a different sound signature to the stock configuration - all of my impressions were with the stock P4.  I would also note that various people reported problems with the DAC in the D6 - to date, I dont recall any major issues with the P4.


----------



## Fringe

The P4 does a pretty good job with the HD600 when I compare it to my LD MKIII. The biggest difference seems to be the bass impact/extension and soundstage. The P4 seems to be more upfront sounding with less depth so it's a little flatter and not as full sounding. I also use the Q701 with the P4 and it sounds good but i don't have anything besides the MKIII to compare to so i cant comment too much. I don't know how useful this is because of all the different opamp and tube variations that come into play here but hopefully it helps some.


----------



## giveit2menow

i was interested to find the stock configuartion has the gain at the +10.5db setting. I thought it was always best to set the gain at the lowest setting you are happy with that works with the head unit. I wondered why they would set the stock to this?


----------



## Minkypou

warbler or pb2? i want the best souding quality for my ultrasone pro 900 and my hd598. i know the warbler is fine for *drive* my headphones, but i really want the best sound quality , soundstage, base deep, instruments separation, details, and more. thx!


----------



## Bugdozer

I have both the P4 and PB2/DB2.  If you are using them single ended, you may not hear too much difference, depending on the op amps and buffers.  Where you will hear a difference is running balanced.  I have the iBasso balanced Sennheiser cord to my HD600s and there is a noticeable openness in the sound.
   
  My P4 is for on the road driving my Ety 4S and I’m running an 8620 OPA and HA5002 buffers.  I did have 627s in the V/G sockets but I change them out but I don’t recall what is in there.  In my PB2 I also use the HA5002 buffers but swap around the OPAs.  If you are going to go balanced, get the PB2.


----------



## Triangle3

I need help... lol
   
  P4, D4 or D12...
   
  All I really _need _ is an amp, but I could use a different DAC. 
  Taking any opinions.


----------



## Bugdozer

Check the D6.  It looks nice too. Coworker got a Fiio E17.  Actually sounds pretty good.


----------



## Triangle3

Forgot to put it in my post lol
   
  P4, D6, D4 or D12....


----------



## kiteki

spudharris said:


> They just give something different even with the same opamps, In 4 channel mode the P4 is a very exiting amp to listen to, the PB-2 is probably a more realistic sounding amp and one I transport for vacations etc with a set of balanced cans (D7000 usually). The P4 is a nice form to strap to a classic for an involving on the go listen but not one I use for critical istening. With the right chipset you probably could tune it for any application I just choose to have the two amps for separate uses.
> 
> Hope that helps.


 
   
  Thanks for the advice on the Warbler. =)
   
   
  I've noted...
   
  + gold-plated sockets
  + 3CH / 4CH design
   
  versus Pelican
   
  + balanced
  - four op-amp's required, or 2x stereo (like MUSES01 x2 etc.), no advantage here.
  - less battery life
  - higher THD and crosstalk? Not listed in the .pdf.
   
   
  Naturally there are more differences, anyone else compared them?
   
   
  What's the IC at the bottom-left in this pic?


----------



## kiteki

P4 Warbler arrived today.


----------



## kiteki

Anyone know the voltage supply in this?  Will the stereo left and right meet at least +-9V (18V)?


----------



## Huxley

Folks I've gone and bought two OPA627 and HA5002 

I'm fine fitting the 627's but do I fit The 5002's the same only in the middle two sockets? 

Don't want to blow my baby.


----------



## SpudHarris

huxley said:


> Folks I've gone and bought two OPA627 and HA5002
> 
> I'm fine fitting the 627's but do I fit The 5002's the same only in the middle two sockets?
> 
> Don't want to blow my baby.




Where did you get the 5002's? They are not your standard plug and play as they have to be mounted on an adapter with smd resistors etc....

If you got them ready mounted then yes you put them in the centre sockets.


----------



## Huxley

Ah it's the bare chips. 

Where do i get them pre mounted?


----------



## SpudHarris

HiFlight (Ron Kerlin) is where I got mine. I bought pre built modules from him, he's a top bloke. You can find his details on this thread as he is also an avid fan of ibasso gear. He's the chap behind "topkits" (premium chipsets for rolling). 

It's worth doing though as the 5002 is easily my favourite buffer.

Hope that helps....


----------



## putente

Quote: 





huxley said:


> Folks I've gone and bought two OPA627 and HA5002
> 
> I'm fine fitting the 627's but do I fit The 5002's the same only in the middle two sockets?
> 
> Don't want to blow my baby.


 
   
   
  That's the setup I currently have in my P4! It's very good indeed...


----------



## Huxley

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> HiFlight (Ron Kerlin) is where I got mine. I bought pre built modules from him, he's a top bloke. You can find his details on this thread as he is also an avid fan of ibasso gear. He's the chap behind "topkits" (premium chipsets for rolling).
> 
> It's worth doing though as the 5002 is easily my favourite buffer.
> 
> Hope that helps....


 
  Well i just assumed that the buffers were like op amps, so slot right in.
   
  So they need additional dip module, with a resistor in tow.
   
  But after speaking to ron, i think i'll plump for his topkit, it'll come with what im after and them some,
  should keep me happily tinkering for quite some time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And like you say ron is a top chap, so i don't doubt it's an excellent package.
   
   
  Quote: 





putente said:


> That's the setup I currently have in my P4! It's very good indeed...


 
  Well it's what most with the P4 seem to choose, im enjoying the AD797 it's opened up the sound a treat, so the OPA627 and HA5002's should be rather special.
   
  And if it's not to my liking, at least i'll have others to try.


----------



## Huxley

Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Anyone know the voltage supply in this?  Will the stereo left and right meet at least +-9V (18V)?


 
  Don't quote me on it, but it might be 14v from the battery, and 18v running from the charger.
   
  Im sure it was mentioned in this thread a while back.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





huxley said:


> Well it's what most with the P4 seem to choose, im enjoying the AD797 it's opened up the sound a treat, so the OPA627 and HA5002's should be rather special.
> 
> And if it's not to my liking, at least i'll have others to try.


 
   
   
  I can't say I've tried any other setup with my P4, as I bought it used here on HF and it came like that from the seller (along with a bunch of other opamps)! I enjoyed it's sound so much I haven't even felt the need to try other configurations since the first day I tried it, but I guess some time soon I'll have to do some opamp rolling to hear what changes in it's sound...


----------



## SpudHarris

@ Huxley....

They do just drop in as dip's but the adapter (PCB) has stuff underneath. Thought they were resistors but I'm not 100% sure.



Sorry, just noticed how rubbish the pic is but you get the idea.


----------



## Huxley

I thought they were DIP8, but im sure you know they're much smaller.
   
  Wish i knew that before ordering, anyway i've paid ron for his lovely topkit so that should keep me happy for a long while.
   
  Do you know of any guides or pics when it comes to fitting them?
   
  The DIP8 modules im fine with, as they have the same orientation, it's the transistor buffers and ground modules im wary of.
   
  Also what's your take on the OPA2111AM as i think you're a fan of them?


----------



## SpudHarris

The adapters with the SOIC chips have the same pin spacing etc so they just fit like your standard DIP chips. I'm afraid that many companies are using SOIC chips now so getting them put on adapters is going to be pretty much the norm from now on. If soldering isn't your strongpoint you can always send them to me and I'll sort them for you.
   
  The Adapters have a visual to show the orientation, most have a square pad on pin one or are printed to show how they fit. If you are unsure at all, just ping me a PM.
   
  I used to love the OPA2111AM and still drop them in now and again, I even spent stupid money on the OPA111 metal cans which are the single versions. I'm told they don't output much for driving difficult loads but I still think they are nice, do you have any?


----------



## Huxley

No but i've seen them mentioned and was curious as to what you thought of them.
   
  I think i'll just stick with the topkit and the 5002's for now, otherwise i'll just confuse things.
   
  Ah yes i see what you mean about the adapters, there's a white strip much like the dot that the op amps have.
   
  Might try the 634 buffers with the 797's just to see what that brings to the table.
   
  See once you know which way they go, then it's quite simple.
   
  I just didn't want to damage what i feel is a very nice amp.
   
  And thanks for the offer, im fine with soldering it's just an added hassle i didn't want.


----------



## MusicalChillies

Just adding my thoughts as I have those in my current set up but in the P3.
   
  Buffers : The stacked 634 buffers put the meat in the sandwich for me. The H002`s are clean sounding but seem to take the edge off the bass so depending on genre you have 2 options.
  L/R : Liking the 797`s again at the minute. Compress the sound stage a little and take the edge off the highs compared to the 827`s. The 827`s give that better detail and space so again genre depending.
   
  Out of the opamp`s I have (top kit and op`s from SpudHarris) the 627 in ground is still my favourite.
   
  Stu


----------



## Huxley

I found the 797 fatiguing I much prefer the LT1678 with 5002 buffers and bypass ground. 

Warm, detailed and so easy to listen to.


----------



## SpudHarris

Haha Ron's Top Kit hits the spot!
   
  I like that combo also but I prefer to have an ISL5002 in ground....


----------



## Huxley

So you run the 5002 buffers in ground?
   
  Im assuming you use the bypass buffers in place?
   
  Still waiting on the OPA627's, they're taking forever.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





huxley said:


> So you run the 5002 buffers in ground?
> 
> Im assuming you use the bypass buffers in place?
> 
> Still waiting on the OPA627's, they're taking forever.


 
   
  ISL5002 x 1 in centre ground (dual chip) + HA5002 x 2 in buffers (single chip).


----------



## MusicalChillies

Quote: 





huxley said:


> I found the 797 fatiguing I much prefer the LT1678 with 5002 buffers and bypass ground.
> 
> Warm, detailed and so easy to listen to.


 
  Bypass G sounds interesting.
   
  This will take a back seat due to absolutely loving my new C&C BH amp (output 2) with Sennheiser Momentums.  I will play with opamps over the weekend but..


----------



## Huxley

Tis good, though i'll probably be forever looking for something better.
   
  Spud - With the 5002/ISL5002 combination what opamp you running with this.
   
  I had a look for the ISL5002 and they seem tricky to source, obviously some soldering onto a brown dog would be required, which im fine with just an added hassle.
   
  Tried BUF634 and didn't like it, same result using the bypass buffers, so for now im sticking with the above mentioned combination.


----------



## SpudHarris

ISL5002 also came from Hiflight (Ron) easier to source in US. Worth it though specially if you like micro details and transients. I'm torn at the moment between OPA602BP/OPA1641 and LME 49990 for L/R.....


----------



## Huxley

Interesting, added to my list for when my hours pick up.
   
  Got my OPA627's and i've fallen for those, that's again with the 5002's and bypass ground.
   
  Quick question if you will, are these fine in my P4, i ordered them without 100% knowing if they're fine.
   
  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260318493270?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
   
  Also can you use buffers and opamps in either ground and L/R channels, or are there some combinations to be avoided?


----------



## MusicalChillies

Using the 627`s in L/R? Never tried it but then again I haven`t bypassed ground. Will try that combo over the weekend. Problem is though as I have mentioned I need the 634`s as buffers because to me, they are the kiddies that add the bass punch instead of the 5002`s.
   
  Edit: that is in my P3 though, the P4 may perform really differently.


----------



## jamato8

I really like the 5002. The pin out is different from the standard op amps and buf634 so the surface mount need to be ordered and the adapter socket used like the one from Brown Dog, which corrects the pinout for using in the socket.


----------



## SpudHarris

Hey John, long time no see/speak. How are you doing my friend?
   
  I have been testing Ryuzoh's Maxxed MB Dac recently, wow, that is some piece of kit.... I have already told him to put me on the list for the new one which will be I-device type as he has a licence from Apple now.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Hey John, long time no see/speak. How are you doing my friend?
> 
> I have been testing Ryuzoh's Maxxed MB Dac recently, wow, that is some piece of kit.... I have already told him to put me on the list for the new one which will be I-device type as he has a licence from Apple now.


 

 Doing fine here in Alaska. The MB1 dac is a great little dac. Excellent sound and fun to use, I agree. Haven't heard the maxxed version. If word really got out about it, it would be a smash hit.


----------



## Angular Mo

anyone with a P4 that has recently purchased a Fiio E12 Mont Blanc amp?
  I am interested in how they compare to one another as I own the P4, but am interested in the Fiio E12.


----------



## putente

Here's a question to the P4 experts... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm currently using my P4 with the following setup: OPA627BP x2 + HA5002 Buffer x2 + Dummy Ground x2
   
  I like it very much that way, but I really never tried other opamp configurations, as this is how I got it from the previous owner. If I wanted to make it sound as close as possible to a tube amp ("warmest" sounding possible, mostly), which opamp configuration should I look for?
   




   
   
  Thanks.


----------



## SpudHarris

High end tube sound generally tends to be warm and smooth but with no loss of micro detail or dynamics. There are warmer sounding chips but many sacrifice these things. The only one I found to come close to high end tube sound was the LME49990, it's still a chip at the end of the day and never going to sound exactly like a tube amp as design and power play a big part in that. It's a nice chip though in the P4. I have used them with HA5002 buffers and ISL5002 in ground for as long as I can remember.
   
  Regards - Nigel


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> High end tube sound generally tends to be warm and smooth but with no loss of micro detail or dynamics. There are warmer sounding chips but many sacrifice these things. The only one I found to come close to high end tube sound was the LME49990, it's still a chip at the end of the day and never going to sound exactly like a tube amp as design and power play a big part in that. It's a nice chip though in the P4. I have used them with HA5002 buffers and ISL5002 in ground for as long as I can remember.
> 
> Regards - Nigel


 
   
  Thanks, Nigel! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I'll get the LME49990! I've found several on eBay in DIP8 format, but I'm not sure which ones to get for the P4! There are versions with 2 LME49990 in a single DIP8 and others in 2x DIP8 each with a single LME49990... Help, please?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Also, where can I find those ISL5002?


----------



## SpudHarris

This is where I bought all mine.....
   
LME49990
   
  The ISL5002 are a little tricky to get as they come on a special adapter with resistors on the base. I bought mine from Ron Kerlin (HiFlight). He is my OpAmp Guru and an absolute gent, I'm sure he will sort you out if you drop him a line.
   
  Hope the link above works, I've not done this on the iPad before.
   
  Best of luck.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> This is where I bought all mine.....
> 
> LME49990
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes, it works, thanks! So, I'll need to get 2 of those LME49990's from that link to use with the P4, right?


----------



## SpudHarris

Just one needed for P4. They have a chip top and bottom making it a dual OpAmp.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Just one needed for P4. They have a chip top and bottom making it a dual OpAmp.


 
   
   
  Thanks! Sorry for all the questions, but I know very little about opamps... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The same seller also sells it in 2x singles (here), ence my confusion.


----------



## SpudHarris

No worries pal, how you gonna learn if you don't ask questions. Most of the guys here and on the OpAmp thread will be happy to help. Just let us know how it goes.....
   
  Cheers


----------



## putente

Well, since I need to learn more about opamps, can you further explain the difference between those two LME49990 versions available from that seller? I mean, if I were to buy without asking you first, I'd go for the 2x single instead of the 1x dual! From what I can understand from the P4 manual, it can take both options (1x dual or 2x single) or am I wrong? Are there advantages/disadvantages from one option to the other? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thank you for your help!


----------



## SpudHarris

No difference in terms of sq. He offers both types purely because different applications, I have more amps with single DIP sockets so bought duals and not singles. It's your choice, are you thinking of rolling chips in anything else?


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> No difference in terms of sq. He offers both types purely because different applications, I have more amps with single DIP sockets so bought duals and not singles. It's your choice, are you thinking of rolling chips in anything else?


 
   
   
  Ok, I see. Now that you've mention it, I actually have a desktop DAC/amp that has socketed opamps, a Matrix Cube. If I go for the dual LME49990, I guess I can use it there too! Great advice, thanks!


----------



## Angular Mo

A "shout out" thank you to Ron "HiFlight" for his incredible patience with me on his P4 topkit.  I am still fumbling along with it all, not sure if my configuration is OK, or not.  Admittedly, I am a software guy and not a hardware type....


----------



## SpudHarris

Ron is an absolute gent, I have learned much from him.
   
  if you are unsure of your set up, ask on this thread. There are many peeps willing to help, don't risk damaging anything for the sake of a question.


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Ron is an absolute gent, I have learned much from him.
> 
> if you are unsure of your set up, ask on this thread. There are many peeps willing to help, don't risk damaging anything for the sake of a question.


 
  Mr SpudHarris and all other !
  What is your P4 configuration?  Can you upload photos and a description of the sound?
   
  I am still working through some basic concepts, such as what each component is that I am looking at.  
   
  I plan to upload info for newbies once I an sure I understand what I am looking at.


----------



## Angular Mo

Question to anyone;
   
Is it possible to install a Burr Brown OPA627 opamp into the P4?
I read from Portaphile's description of the 627 that it is an excellent opamp.
   
Would I need one or two?


----------



## SpudHarris

You can use the OPA627 (x2) but there are better chips. Is that amps circuit optimised for the 627 chip? If so, it may not sound as good in the P4.....


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> You can use the OPA627 (x2) but there are better chips. Is that amps circuit optimised for the 627 chip? If so, it may not sound as good in the P4.....


 
  "Is that amps circuit optimised for the 627 chip?"
   
  - I don't... and am open to recommendations for rolling.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> This is where I bought all mine.....
> 
> LME49990
> 
> The ISL5002 are a little tricky to get as they come on a special adapter with resistors on the base. I bought mine from Ron Kerlin (HiFlight). He is my OpAmp Guru and an absolute gent, I'm sure he will sort you out if you drop him a line.


 
   
   
  About the ISL5002, can you tell me if I need to get 1 or 2 of those to use in the P4? I'm going to PM Ron to ask about availability and price...


----------



## SpudHarris

The ISL5002 is a dual OpAmp so just one is needed in your P4


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> The ISL5002 is a dual OpAmp so just one is needed in your P4


 
   
   
  Thank you very much!


----------



## rexirius

The P4 is marked "out of stock" in the iBasso website. 
  Have they stopped production of this model?


----------



## putente

Quote: 





rexirius said:


> The P4 is marked "out of stock" in the iBasso website.
> Have they stopped production of this model?


 
   
   
  Possibly. You can still find them at eBay from a chinese seller, and maybe some iBasso retailers may still have them in stock...


----------



## putente

Well, after contacting Ron (HiFlight) about the ISL55002 chip, I finally got it up and running in my P4! He's really nice and supportive, and following his suggestion of using the ISL55002 in L/R with the AD797 chips as buffers and dummy ground chips, I achieved the kind of sound I was looking for from my P4, making it sound much like a tube amp, warm and musical, yet detailed with great bass performance! I'm very happy with this setup!


----------



## SpudHarris

Nice one..... Yes Ron is a great guy, very knowledgeable. I can't recall trying that combo, I will have to give it a try.


----------



## putente

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Nice one..... Yes Ron is a great guy, very knowledgeable. I can't recall trying that combo, I will have to give it a try.


 
   
   
  You definitelly should! I'm really impressed by this little amp's sound capabilites...


----------



## putente

Btw, has anyone ever measure the output impedance of the P4, or does that depend on the opamp setup inside?


----------



## dtdownunder

I love sound and I am, as you also appear to be, with finding the best sound within my budget.
   
  I habe recently upgraded my headphones from "Grado 325is" to the "Beyerdynamic T90" which I am very happy with. 
   
  Today, I purchased the *iBasso P4* portable amp* *which you have discussed in detail in this threat. I do enjoy the sound of that amp. It may be lacking a little bit on the lower end but the clarity is really good.
   
  I have been following this threat for some time and today I decided to join this forum. 
   
  I would also like to improve the sound by adding new chips as many have done here. SpudHarris seems to know a lot about this.
   
  I have been a musician all my life but as far as this kind of audio equipment is concerned, I really do not know much. Not even sure what these chips actually are. I will continue reading up on it. In the meantime I have the following questions and I would really appreciate a reply.
   
  the following has been recommended as worthwhile additions to the P4: LME49990, HA 5002 buffer, ISL5002. 
   
  I have the following questions:
   

 are these the only components that I need to buy in order to upgrade? How many of each? (i learned that the ISL5002 is a dual chip and only one is needed. What about the other two? How many do I need?)
 Would anyone please very briefly explain what difference these components make and what they are? (just very briefly as I do not want to impose). I know a lot about sound but not that stuff 
 Would I be able to install these chips by myself without risk of damaging anything? Is it difficult?
 Where can I buy the ISL5002 and the HA5002? (I am based in Australia).
 Do I need to look for a specific Brand or are these just generic descriptions and any will do?
   
  [size=x-small]Sorry about all these questions. Just trying to get into this.[/size]


----------



## dtdownunder

Also
   
  I found the LME4990 online in Australia. However is full title is "LME49990 MA" or "LME49990 NOB" - Is this what I need for the P4? What is the difference between "MA" and "NOB". Does it matter?
   
  I also found the ISL5002 again described as ISL5002 21bz   -   Is this correct?


----------



## dtdownunder

made a mistake:
   
  the LME49990 has either the ending "MA" or "NOPB"
   
  Which one do I need to get for the P4? What is the difference.


----------



## Bugdozer

I'm running an 8620 opa, 5002 buffers and BB 627s in the V/G channels driving my Etymotic ER-4S.  I've tried many combos but I always seem to come back to this set up.


----------



## dtdownunder

Thank you.
   
  I have taken the advice from Ron (HiFlight) and decided to go with the set up that he recommended and which he kindly agreed to provide to me.
   
  He appears to be very knowledgeable and gave me a lot of information. Very nice guy. I will update once I have the set up that he will post to me. We have been emailing back and forth and he addressed all my questions in detail. 
   
  I will let you know once I have that set up installed.


----------



## dtdownunder

Have u had a chance to listen to the Beyerdynamic T90? I am quiet impressed.


----------



## Angular Mo

Quote: 





putente said:


> Well, after contacting Ron (HiFlight) about the ISL55002 chip, I finally got it up and running in my P4! He's really nice and supportive, and following his suggestion of using the ISL55002 in L/R with the AD797 chips as buffers and dummy ground chips, I achieved the kind of sound I was looking for from my P4, making it sound much like a tube amp, warm and musical, yet detailed with great bass performance! I'm very happy with this setup!


 
  I will have to try this config, thanks !


----------



## Jackson9696

Just found out from ibasso that the p4 is discontinued but the p5 will be out in a few months.


----------



## CJG888

Any information on the P5?


----------



## Jackson9696

No not yet, ibasso only told me that it would be released in a few months.


----------



## CJG888

spudharris said:


> This is where I bought all mine.....
> 
> LME49990
> 
> ...




I've just ordered 2x single LME 49990 and 2x HA5002. How many ISL5002 do I need?


----------



## SpudHarris

It's a dual OpAmp so just 1 off is needed....


----------



## Pete7

Anyone tried AD744 OBCA? Wondering if I could try this with BUF634's without frying the unit. This combo used to sound incredible in the Larocco PR II.


----------



## SpudHarris

Have used AD743 but not 744....

743 is a stunning OpAmp but is current hungry so not best suited to portable stuff if run time is an issue.


----------



## Mooses9

Super excited i just picked up another p4 warbler, i had one a few years ago, loved it sold it regretted it and been looking ever since. these seem to be decently hard to get your hands on.
   
  anyhow, i picked up the LME49990 which i loved, and picked up one of ron's p4  top kits. cannot wait to give this a go with the cypher labs algorhythm solo.
   
   
  so now the current setup will be
   
  Westone 4R
  IPOD Touch 4g
  Ibasso P4 Warbler Amp
  Cypher labs algorhythm solo DaC
  Toxic Silver Poison Westone Cable
  Toxic Silver Poison USB to LOD
  Toxic Silver Poison Mini to mini
   
  i think the sound has just gotten real lol


----------



## autarch1

I get a lot of noise when I use the power supply that came with my P4, and my battery no longer lasts very long. Has anyone tried alternate power supplies? 
Also, is the battery replaceable?


----------



## CJG888

Does anyone have experience of using the MUSES01 and 02 op-amps in the P4? Are they a direct drop-in replacement? Which sounds better?


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

I am late to the party but I just bought a brand new P4! I am so happy and surprised I found a retailer had stock. I have rolled every possible combination (probably) with the stock opamps and challenge any one to come up with a better sound than using; 

L/R: TLE2141, B: BUF634P WB (hi-c), G: AD797, V: OPA604

The stock tle2141 is simply the best fit for l/r due to its neutral, fast and clear sound, it makes a great base to start building other op amp sounds on top. Buf634 hi-c have better extention and transparency over the 634u, the transistor buf does not have air, wide stage or extension. 

IMO l/r and buffers are best left to neutral and balanced op amps, and G, V is where we can focus on adding our desired flavour.

Lastly for G and V where I did the most experimentation, I first found that using both G and V usually result in a muddled sound, I began to think the only good combo could be using only G or only V, but after many sleepless hours of rolling, I found the golden above combo.

 The opamp in G has more effect than the one in V, the ad797 brings great warmth, very great timbre in mid bass and vocals and mids, but its missing a bit of speed, treble air, sub bass and open stage. Using opa604 in V completely fixes all these faults like a miracle match made in heaven, the opa604 adds that bit of sub bass, speeds up the sound just a fraction and widens the sound stage creating airiness, the ad797 in G alone can only suit few genres, but adding op604 in V makes magic happen and able to suit any genre.

The resulting sound is versatile and simply euphoric, while still balanced it sounds amazingly lush and deep 3 dimentional.


----------



## SpudHarris

Cheers for all your hard work. Always good hear a new combo. I have those chips so will give it a go tonight.


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

So I got a new interconnect cable (was using stock ibasso cable before) and suddenly my op amp combo sounded rubbish! So I had to come up with a new combo to suit the new more revealing interconnect. New fav combo is:

L/R: 2x OPA604, Buf: 2x AD797, G: TLE2141, V: TLE2141

There is loads of sub bass with this combo while keeping mids and treble forward, opa604 makes sure mids and treble are forward and ad797 makes sure they are yet silky smooth and also adds its famous warmth in the mids and mid bass, the tle2142 help cut through the warmth by boosting sub bass and adding clarity to treble, Im finding tle2141 does an excellent job refining the sound in G and V, bringing micro detail forward even while keeping with the smoothness theme. I really like this combo, but if you are allergic to bass you won't like it 

Also I like low gain for this combo. Please try it and tell me what you think! its a very fun forward energetic sound while staying completely smooth and lacking grain or sharpness, detail and timbre level is also very good imo.

Its amazing that because we all have different cables and sources even with the same op amp combo we will hear differently.

But please tell me what you think of this combo with your gear.


----------



## OddJobs

Well I emailed Ibasso to see if they are still making the P4 and they said it was discontinued. But they will be releasing the P5 in 3 months.


----------



## SpudHarris

Fantastic news.... Thanks for the heads up pal!


----------



## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Hey Spud
Whats your favorite combo in the P4? (with any possible opamps)
 
and if Jamato sees this, how does P4 compare to fiio E12 DIY? I notice you sold your P4!
 
I today ordered Muses02 and 01 and LME49600 buffers, just for wank factor! (and will probably sound good, hehe)
 
Also curious about if anyone has tested the P4 and PB2 with same opamp setup, using single ended. Do they sound identical or are there some differences?


----------



## HiFlight

I have compared the P4 and PB2 single-ended many times when comparing different opamp combinations and to my ears, the P4 wins every time as the PB2 is primarily designed for balanced operation where it performs superbly. It is difficult to exactly compare the two due to the ground socket options in the P4.


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Good to know! The problem is its hard (impossible imo) to keep transparency when you use the ground sockets. I often find enjoyable sound sigs using ground, but the lack of transparency still stops me from using them.


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## HiFlight

t.r.a.n.c.e. said:


> Good to know! The problem is its hard (impossible imo) to keep transparency when you use the ground sockets. I often find enjoyable sound sigs using ground, but the lack of transparency still stops me from using them.




I always use a bypass adapter in the center ground socket. That makes it opamp + buffer.


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## CJG888

+1 on this. I find that the most transparent way of ensuring a decent bass weight and control (for full size cans such as HD600 and DT250/250) is to set gain to high, fit the op-amps of your choice and the discrete transistor buffers. The ground sockets are then left empty (dummy adapters).


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

Im using LME49600 buffers with Muses02 now, sounds fantastic for iems. But Ive found that both Muses dont sound great with fullsize headphones. The 49600 buffers sound like a more refined version of HA5002 buffers to my ears, which means awesome! Basically similar frequency balance, but 49600 is cleaner and less grainy, most importantly the 49600 has a bigger soundstage.


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## SpudHarris

Man I still love the P4 so much. I have 49600 buffers and Muses01 with G/VG bypassed. I am only using it with IEM's as I have a balanced PB2 rig for transportable. The P4 is purely for on the go but it's an amazing piece of gear...


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

spudharris said:


> Man I still love the P4 so much. I have 49600 buffers and Muses01 with G/VG bypassed. I am only using it with IEM's as I have a balanced PB2 rig for transportable. The P4 is purely for on the go but it's an amazing piece of gear...


 
  
 After buying all these famous buffers and opamps, I ended up liking the stock TLE2142 + BUF634 over all of them LOL.


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## HiFlight

.


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## mitsu763

Early info has been added for the new P5.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/752829/fresh-from-the-oven-ibasso-p5-falcon#post_11273365


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## Huxley

Nice to know people are discovering the p4.
  
 It's a fantastic amp, only to have been forgotten by many as it's deemed old therefore not worth looking at.
  
 Opa combo umm i think i use OPA627, 5002BUF and bypass ground.
  
 Warm, lush and laid back yet clear, i hate treble being too forward, to me this combo sounds similar to an old valve amp.


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## Mooses9

I think the fact that its rather hard to come by makes it more or less a lack lusture when it comes to amps i loved it wjen i owned it twice i thought it was excellent and still do.

From there i upgraded to the pb2 and db2 much like the p4 theu are excellent amplifiers its just a shame there isnt a larger market so others can know about them.


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## Paul - iBasso

The P5 will carry on our tradition of providing fine portable amplifiers. The P5 will surprise you with its CNC case for the P5 and power supply. The parts quality and pcb will offer you the best. We like you to smile when you listen to music.


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## SpudHarris

Paul, I still listen to the P4 most days, for me it's the best performing portable by far. I am in for the P5 with no hesitation but are there any more details?

Please keep us in the loop


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## Paul - iBasso

spudharris said:


> Paul, I still listen to the P4 most days, for me it's the best performing portable by far. I am in for the P5 with no hesitation but are there any more details?
> 
> Please keep us in the loop


 

 The P5 charges 2 9 volt batteries with the external power supply. You can also listen to the P5 with the power supply. We will keep you up to date.


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## Mooses9

It is good to hear the p5 will seem to be a upgrade from the already great p4


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## T.R.A.N.C.E.

iBasso P5 spotted in the wild:


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## Huxley

Anyone know what charger this uses. Gone and left mine at my old place.


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## HiFlight

huxley said:


> Anyone know what charger this uses. Gone and left mine at my old place.




It is a 16vdc 1A output, 100-240v inpug adapter. ID on the charger is: Model DSA 16W-16200Z. Center pin is positive and barrel is 5.5 mm OD x 2.1 mm ID. 

Hope this is of some help for you. BTW, it is the same charger used by the PB2.


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## Bugdozer

Anyone know where to source a new battery?  Mine seems to have puckered.


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## HiFlight

bugdozer said:


> Anyone know where to source a new battery?  Mine seems to have puckered.




Email iBasso. They should be able to provide a replacement for you.


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## northendjazz

After enjoying opamp rolling in a Neco Soundlab V4 I upgraded to his new V5 which doesn't allow opamp rolling! still a truly superb amp but I miss the rolling. I had seen P4 and PB2 etc in the opamp thread and managed to find a used P4 and now have a new playground for opamp's.  It came with at least part of a top kit and I have range of single opamp's and one that I've not seen mentioned the "Ultra Analog THE-1 single OP AMP module" I found it very clean and balanced, has any one else used them?


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## CJG888

Has anyone tried the Sparkos Labs discrete opamps in the P4?


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## SpudHarris

I have had to order a new battery for my P4 as it was completely dead last night. Using just the mains power adapter.

Can't get it to play nice tonight though. Tried different buffers, different jumper positions (gain), a few Opamps are quiet but the Sparkos are picking up a serious amount of interference.




Feeding it via headphone out (discrete) of my Oppo HA1. Using the P4 is not new to me so I'm confused...


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## ztsen

I also have interference when use main power adaptor. Try different power source/socket or use power condition unit to reduce the interference.


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## Huxley

Any idea what battery this has?


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## CJG888

My battery has also just died. It would be a shame to end up breaking the amp for parts...

Does anyone have a idea where I may be able to source a replacement battery?


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