# The DIY Cable Info and Help Thread



## ardgedee

The DIY forum sees a lot of the same questions repeated frequently, so I'm starting this thread to consolidate some of the information people can use. Apologies if this OP starts sketchy and is slow to fill in: I'm researching old threads as I go.
   
  If you have info to add (or can help other people here), great!
   
  You can PM me with recommendations, corrections, suggestions, or questions. Just keep in mind that I'm a cable-builder newbie, myself, so I probably won't be able to provide technical support or make detailed equipment recommendations.
   
  Outline:

 Intro
 *Connectors*
 *Wires*
 *Tools*
 *Resources*


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## ardgedee

*Connectors*   Things I could use help with for this section: 

 *Wiring information about headphone-side connectors.*
 *List of phones using Sennheiser connectors.* I know I'm missing a couple.
 *Ultrasone connectors? Beyerdynamic connectors?* Some models have socketed cables. I think. I'm drawing a blank.
 *LOD/line adaptor configurations for non-Apple products.*
 *Fact-checking connector configurations.* I _think_ I got everything right, but I'd hate for somebody to read this and then cross-wire a high-voltage electrostatic...
*A master list of which connectors are used on which custom IEMs.* This is probably a tall order - currently new models are sprouting like mushrooms after a cloudburst. Most seem to use the Westone/JH type connector, but not all of 'em.
    
_(See also: *Intro*, Connectors, *Wires*, *Tools*, *Resources*)_ 
    
  This section is broken into three parts: 
*Amp connectors* 
*Headphone connectors* 
*Other connectors* 
    
  Almost every plug and socket listed below is also used in different wiring configurations for purposes unrelated to headphone audio. Do not depend on this chart if, for example, you're building microphone cables. 
    
 *Headphone connectors, amplifier side*     

 *Type* *Where used* *Configuration* *Notes* 2.5mm (3/32") stereo phone (TRS) Common on some mobile phones. *Tip:* Left signal 
*Ring:* Right signal 
*Sleeve:* Ground 
   3.5mm (1/8") stereo phone (TRS) Standard stereo connector for headphones to small and portable devices *Tip:* Left signal 
*Ring:* Right signal 
*Sleeve:* Ground 
 Most popular stereo connector for headphones currently, ubiquitous in portable devices 3.5mm (1/8") stereo phone (TRRS) Standard stereo connector for headsets to mobile phones: iPhones and many other Apple iOS devices, recent Samsung, Blackberry, Nokia, and HTC Android phones. *Tip:* Left signal 
*Ring 1:* Right signal 
*Ring 2:* Ground 
*Sleeve:* Microphone 
  Increasingly popular for mobile phones. Some headphone amps are compatible with this pin arrangement, others are not. 
    
  Ring 1 is closer to the Tip, Ring 2 is closer to the Sleeve. 
    
  Compared to the standard TRS connector, the ground is moved from Sleeve to Ring 2, and the Sleeve is used for mic and control signals. 
 6.5mm (1/4") stereo phone (TRS) Standard stereo connector for full-sized headphones for use with desktop or console amplifiers *Tip:* Left signal 
*Ring:* Right signal 
*Sleeve:* Ground 
 Formerly the most popular stereo connector for headphones, still common for home systems 3-pin XLR Used in pairs for balanced console/desktop amps  One connector for each channel: 
    
*Pin 1:* Chassis ground (cable shield) 
*Pin 2:* Channel positive (+) 
*Pin 3:* Channel negative (-) 
*Shell:* ? 
  The pins are numbered on the bodies of the plug and socket. 
 4-pin XLR Used singly for balanced console/desktop amps *Pin 1:* Left positive (+) 
*Pin 2:* Left negative (-) 
*Pin 3:* Right positive (+) 
*Pin 4:* Right negative (-) 
*Shell:* ? 
  The pins are numbered on the bodies of the plug and socket. 
    
  There is no official pinout standard, but this is the normal arrangement for the cables shipped with AKG K1000 and HiFiMAN orthodynamic headphones. 
 4-pin mini-XLR Used occasionally for line extensions *Pin 1:* Left positive (+) 
*Pin 2:* Left negative (-) 
*Pin 3:* Right positive (+) 
*Pin 4:* Right negative (-) 
*Shell:* ? 
  The pins are numbered on the bodies of the plug and socket. 
    
  There is no official pinout standard; convention is to replicate the full-size 4-pin XLR. 
 Auto-IRIS Balanced connector on RSA balanced amplifiers *Pin 1:* Left positive (+) 
*Pin 2:* Right positive (+) 
*Pin 3:* Left negative (-) 
*Pin 4:* Right negative (-) 
  Used for the Ray Samuels Audio balanced portable amps: *The Protector* and *SR-71B*. 
    
  Outside of audio, this is commonly used to connect controller circuits for video camera lenses. 
 HIROSE HR10A-7R-6  Balanced connector on iBasso balanced amplifiers 
  HIROSE HR10A-7R-6P is the male connector 
  HIROSE HR10A-7R-6S is the female connector 
 *Pin 1:* Right ground 
*Pin 2:* Right positive (+) 
*Pin 3:* Right negative (-) 
*Pin 4:* Left ground 
*Pin 5:* Left Positive (+) 
*Pin 6:* Left negative (-) 
 *Pins 1* & *4* are not used for headphones. 
*Pins 1* & *4* are used only for device interconnects (eg, DAC -> amp) 
    
  Outside of audio, this is commonly used as a video connector. 
 Stax low-bias 6-pin for non-Pro products. *Pin 1:* Bias 
*Pin 2:* Right positive (+) (Front stator) 
*Pin 3:* Left Positive (+) (Front stator) 
*Pin 4:* Left negative (-) (Back stator) 
*Pin 5:* Right negative (-) (Back stator) 
*Pin 6:* Bias 
  High-bias Stax headphones are similar, except for the bias configuration. 
*Source and diagram: Wikiphonia* 
 Stax high-bias 5-pin   *Pin 1:* Bias 
*Pin 2:* Right positive (+) (Front stator) 
*Pin 3:* Left Positive (+) (Front stator) 
*Pin 4:* Left negative (-) (Back stator) 
*Pin 5:* Right negative (-) (Back stator) 
  Similar to low-bias Stax connector. High-bias headphones can connect to low-bias drivers, but not vice versa. 
*Source and diagram: Wikiphonia* 
 *The following connectors are obscure, little-used, or obsolete.* 3.5mm (1/8") stereo phone (TRRS) Rare: Used by HiFiMAN as a headphone connector for its HM-801 Balanced Amp Module. _Pinout pattern for this connector is needed._ This uses a conventional connector in a nonconventional way, so be wary about randomly plugging things in. Koss electrostatic connector Used only by the Koss ESP/950 headphone and companion E/90 amplifier. *Pin 1:* Right negative (-) (Back stator) 
*Pin 2:* Left negative (-) (Back stator) 
*Pin 3:* Right positive (+) (Front stator) 
*Pin 4:* Bias 
*Pin 5:* Left Positive (+) (Front stator) 
  Some users build adaptors to connect the ESP/950 to high bias Stax-compatible drivers, due to the similar voltages (Koss: 600 V; Stax: 580 V). 
*Source, diagram and commentary: Wikiphonia* 
 3-pin XLR Rare: Used singly for unbalanced console/desktop amps, eg the Yamamoto HA-02  One connector for both channels. 
    
  No connection standard: Check documentation for the device you're hooking up. 
  The pins are numbered on the bodies of the plug and socket. 
    
  The primary advantage over a TRS phone plug is the minimized potential to short circuit when the plug is not fully inserted. 
 5-pin "Domino" (DIN 45620) Obsolete: used for a while in the 1960s-1970s on equipment manufactured in Europe. Building an adaptor is discussed in *Philips Electret N6325 and "Domino" DIN output* Unless preserving the original equipment intact is a requirement, most recommendations are to snip the DIN plug off and attach a common phone or XLR connector.
    
 *Headphone connectors, headphone side*     

 *Type* *Where used* *Configuration* *Notes* Sennheiser 2-pin style HD 600, HD 650, HD 25-1 II...   Proprietary to Sennheiser Sennheiser HD 800 style HD 800   Proprietary to Sennheiser SMC HiFiMAN orthodynamic headphones; HE-5, HE-6, HE-500...    Miniature video connector, common in some parts of the world (but not the US) 

 Some vendors confuse female and male designations. 
 3-pin Mini-XLR  AKG K702 
  AKG Q701 
  AKG K240 
  AKG K181DJ 
  AKG K141 
  AKG K271 
     4-pin Mini-XLR Audeze LCD-2  *Pin 1:* Channel + 
*Pin 2:* Channel - 
*Pin 3:* Channel - 
*Pin 4:* Channel + 
   2.5mm (3/32”) stereo phono with keyed housing Shure SRH 840     ?? Ultrasone     Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10 connector  UE TF 10 
  UE Super.Fi 5 
  UE Super.Fi 3 
   Connector appears similar to common cIEM connectors but is not fully compatible with them. Custom IEM connector Jerry Harvey (JH) customs, Westone, Unique Melody, Heir Audio...     MMCX connector  Shure SE535 
  Shure SE425 
  Shure SE315 
   Illustrated in this *exploded diagram of the Shure SE215*
    
 *Other Connectors*     

 *Type* *Where used* *Configuration* *Notes* Apple iOS device dock  The iOS dock connector is multi-purpose, and can be used for analog in/out and data in/out, as well as power and other signals. 
    
  This table will only address the line-out dock (LOD), which is used to send a 2-3 V audio signal to an external amplifier. 
  For older iPods: 
    
*Pins 1 or 2:* Ground 
*Pin 3:* Right signal 
*Pin 4:* Left signal 
    
  Universal iOS device LOD: 
    
*Pins 1 or 2:* Ground 
*Pin 3:* Right signal 
*Pin 4:* Left signal 
  Bridge *Pin 11* & *Pin 15* 
  Connect 68kOhm resistor from *Pin 21* to *Pin 11/15* bridge 
  There are at least two possible LOD configurations: A simpler construction for older iPods, and a more complex construction compatible with all iOS hardware 
    
*Photos and description* of a universal iOS LOD 
    
*A comprehensive pinout list on pinouts.ru* 
 USB type B connector Carries either or both digital signal and a low power line.


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## ardgedee

reserved: Wires
_(See also: *Intro*, *Connectors*, Wires, *Tools*, *Resources*)_


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## ardgedee

*Tools*     
_(See also: *Intro*, *Connectors*, *Wires*, Tools, *Resources*)_ 
    
  The list of good tools you could use are manifold. Instead of making specific equipment recommendations, let's stick to a rundown of what's available and sort by priority. Each item can have links to threads elsewhere in which people discuss their preferred products, and why. 
    
  Equipment guides for electronics beginners Things you must have Things you should have Things that are nice to have 
    
 Equipment guides for beginners     
  It probably isn't surprising that people have strong opinions about what you should start with. Below is some good general-purpose reading about how to set up your electronics workbench/table/desk... 

 Getting Started in Audio DIY - in fact, this site is a rich resource of good information. Bookmark it.
    
 *Must have*     
  The following *tools* are mandatory for building cables. 
    

 *Item* *Details* *Notes* *Soldering iron*  There are a broad variety of irons available for all kinds of purposes. If you have the budget, get a good-quality workstation unit with adjustable temperature. If you don’t, get a pencil iron in the 20-30 Watt range. 
    
  Also get a holder for the iron, so you can rest it while it heats up. 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/270708/help-me-find-my-first-soldering-iron 
    
  See the *Getting Started in Audio DIY* site linked above for a good analysis of what to look for and why. 
 *Pliers* Have a couple pliers in a couple different sizes: At least one needle-nose and one blunt-nose. There are times you might be using both to bend something or pull it apart.   *Wirecutters* For occasional work, the wirecutter built into many pliers is sufficient. I also have an end nipper (where the cutting surface is parallel to the pliers’ pivot axis) which has been good for snipping wires as close as possible to the surface of soldering tabs.   *Wire stripper* For cutting and removing the insulation from the end of a wire. In a pinch, you can use a knife to cut the insulation and pull off with pliers (or your fingernail), but if you’re preparing a lot of wires, or the insulation is stubborn, this will get tiresome quickly. *Screwdrivers* A variety of small sizes, both Philips and flat blades. Should go without saying, but you never know. *Helping hands* This is a tee-shaped stand made of steel rod, with articulated arms and alligator clips at either end. It’s essential for holding steady the things you’re soldering. The magnifying glass that many helping hands include can be useful too. Spending well can buy you an incredibly sturdy, highly reliable one, but the cheapest units are often reasonably stable. The magnifying glass on the cheapest units is sometimes uselessly bad, however. *Continuity tester* For testing that your assembly works as intended, before attaching it to equipment that might be damaged by cross-wiring or short circuits. This can be done with something as simple as a battery, small bulb, and some wire. For convenience, you'll probably eventually want to get a multimeter, discussed below. *Knife* For slicing things, improvising as a wirestripper, cutting shrinkwrap and housings to size, or opening stubborn plastic packaging.   *Solder sucker* This is usually an aluminum cylinder with a plastic tip and spring-loaded pump inside. Melt a bad solder joint with your iron, get the tip close, and trigger the pump to draw out the solder. This cools the solder instantly and it can be ejected as a metal slug.  If your work will always be perfect, you'll never need one. So you should get one. 
    
  This is best used in combination with desoldering braid (see consumables list, below). 
 *Tip cleaner*Commercially available tip cleaners are usually either small square sponges or balls of copper wool. A damp cotton or wool (but not synthetic!) rag will probably do, too. The purpose is to wipe excess solder off the iron to prevent drips and messes.  A friend advises me to, instead, flick the iron away from you while you work. Probably not recommended if you're working over carpeting, in an open space, where food is stored, around other people... 
    
  Come to think of it, just get a tip cleaner. 

    
  The following *consumables* are mandatory for any soldering work. 
    

 *Item* *Details* *Notes* *Solder*  Make sure the solder is designated as being for electronics work. The cheapest available is usually 60/40, meaning 60% tin, 40% lead. Lead solder is banned in many parts of the world. Lead-free solder (with a little silver in it) and silver solder (with more silver) is increasingly common, even in areas where lead solder is still legal and available. 
    
  Solder size matters: If the solder wire is too fat, it becomes difficult to avoid melting too much into the joint. If the solder wire is too thin, it can be hard to get enough solder in to make a reliable joint. 0.032” (0.8mm) seems to be an acceptable general-purpose size for cable building. 
    
  Flux is also necessary but most solders include some. See the entry on Flux in the should-have table, below, for more info. 
 See the entry on solder in the should-have table for the difference between eutectic and non-eutectic solders. *Desoldering braid* This is a metallic braid for wicking away solder from a joint: Put the braid over the joint, press the soldering iron against the joint, and it will draw up the solder. For larger (or messier) solder joints, it is best to use the solder sucker first to eliminate most of the excess, and then apply the braid to clean up the rest.
    
 *Should have*     
  These are some *tools* and *consumables* that will make cable-building easier, or help you make better cables. 
    

 *Item* *Details* *Notes* *Eutectic solder*  Leaded eutectic solder (most commonly 63% tin, 37% lead) works and is only slightly more expensive than the cheapest (60/40 tin/lead); a worthwhile upgrade if lead use in electronics is not banned where you are, and you're willing to use it. 
    
  Silver eutectic solder is available through Cardas, but is a proprietary formula and comparatively costly. Other manufacturers seem to only produce for the industrial market. 
  Eutectic solders are liquid when molten, solid when not, effectively nothing in between. A non-eutectic solder goes through an intermediate soft state while it cools; since there's a period of time where the joint is easily moved but the solder is unable to reflow into the space, there's a higher risk of making flawed joints. 
    
  Since eutectic solders go straight from liquid to solid without a mushy middle, it is easier to make reliable joints. 
 *Flux* Flux cleans the surfaces to be soldered and helps the solder flow over them. Most solder wire has flux in it, but prepping surfaces with flux before soldering avoids the chicken-and-egg problem of getting solder into a joint at the same time as the flux. See *Steve Eddy's comment on flux *in this thread. *Multimeter* A meter with probes or alligator clips can be more convenient to use for continuity testing than a simple lightbulb circuit tester. Cheap ones can go for as little as $5 and be good enough as glorified continuity testers. If you expand your hobby into building full-fledged electronics (or if you will be building cables to specified impedance or resistance values), a multimeter will be necessary.   *Worklight* A nice extremely bright desktop work lamp. You'd be amazed how much it helps.   *Fume extractor*For drawing the soldering smoke out of the air, improving workplace safety. The smoke and odor are primarily from the rosin, but trace amounts of metals can also evaporate as gas.Also sold as a smoke absorber or exhaust hood. Benchtop units are as small as 25cm (10.25") on the long side.
    
 *Nice to have*     
  These are things that make cable-building more pleasant and safer. If you're building cables frequently, these will move upward into the should-have list. 
    

 *Item* *Details* *Notes* *Better soldering iron*  When you budget for a higher-quality model you get something that is more comfortable to use, heats up faster, has a broader variety of operating temperatures (and stays where you set it), and has interchangeable tips. 
    
  Quality used irons are usually available on the usual auction sites, if you’re willing to risk the possibility of losing money on a dud. 
 No, really, whatever you have, there's a better one. It's true for your headphones, right? It's going to be true for your soldering iron too. *Magnifying glass* These are available as accessories to a helping hands stand, or as standalone gadgets that stand on top of or clamp to your workbench. Some have built-in lights, as an added bonus. There are tabletop magnifying glasses sold as reader's aids for the elderly, sometimes sold in housewares stores. In case you happen to be in such a store and are thinking about getting one.


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## ardgedee

reserved: Resources
_(See also: *Intro*, *Connectors*, *Wires*, *Tools*, Resources)_


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## ardgedee

reserved


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## Pingupenguins

You may want to add sparkfun to tools. They have some seriously good cheap stuff.
   
  Loving the organization, LOD info right at the top!


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## wuwhere

Great thread.
   
  For tools: wirestripper, wirecutter, heatgun, dmm, solder, solder station with variable heat and interchangeable tip, wire holder, magnifying glass, different size heatshrinks, gloves.
   
  For resources: http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm


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## Pingupenguins

Don't forget a solder vacuum!
   
  That should be one of the first tools you get if your serious.


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## wuwhere

Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> Don't forget a solder vacuum!
> 
> That should be one of the first tools you get if your serious.


 


  Oh yea, I missed that one, and a desoldering braid.


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## ardgedee

Thanks for the leads, guys, and keep 'em coming.
   
  When you recommend a vendor, say what you're recommending them for (some are best for tools, not for components, or only for particular types of tools), what country they're based in and what part(s) of the world they serve. This can help other Head-Fiers narrow down their options.
   
  (*edit:* ...and feel free to PM me.)


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## sluker

What ever happened to the thread that Steve Eddy started on this topic?


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## wuwhere

In "The DIY Big List & Rules Section" above, there is also a long list of resources.
   
  An ESD strap is a must if one is going to do some soldering/desoldering on a pcb.


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## ardgedee

I want to keep this thread focused on cable making; there are already other discussions and help threads about circuit building.
   
  I'm going through the DIY big list but some of the vendors are out of business or changed focus, and it doesn't list the various new businesses and cable specialists who've arrived in the past couple years. 
   
   
  Quote:


sluker said:


> What ever happened to the thread that Steve Eddy started on this topic?


 

 It was deleted. We're making a fresh start.


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## Mad Max

Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> Don't forget a solder vacuum!
> 
> That should be one of the first tools you get if your serious.


 

 a.k.a. solder sucker, [de]solder[ing] pump
   
   
  ardgedee, add USB plugs when building your own: on the male type A connector, when looking at the pins and they are facing upward, the pinout is GND, DATA+, DATA-, +5VDC.  On the male type B connector which is what usually goes into a desktop DAC, when looking at the plug with the longer, flatter side towards the bottom, the first two pins from left to right at the top are +5VDC and DATA-, the the other two on the bottom from left to right are GND and DATA+.


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## Pingupenguins

Quote: 





mad max said:


> a.k.a. solder sucker, [de]solder[ing] pump
> 
> 
> ardgedee, add USB plugs when building your own: on the male type A connector, when looking at the pins and they are facing upward, the pinout is GND, DATA+, DATA-, +5VDC.  On the male type B connector which is what usually goes into a desktop DAC, when looking at the plug with the longer, flatter side towards the bottom, the first two pins from left to right at the top are +5VDC and DATA-, the the other two on the bottom from left to right are GND and DATA+.


 
   
  Whoops. I meant Solder fume extractor, but a solder vacuum can be used too. I don't call solder vacuums, suckers because they can be mixed up with braid in my experience.
   
  A USB type B pin out would be nice too!


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## Mad Max

Fume extractor is good, too.
   
  On the male mini-B USB plug, with the pins facing upward the pinout from left to right is +5VDC, DATA-, DATA+, ???, GND.  The mini-B has five pins for some reason, I don't know what ??? is for.  It could be connected to ground or carries the mic signal for certain cellphones if I am not mistaken.


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## Steve Eddy

One word: _*FLUX*_ (both liquid and paste).
   
  If you want to do quality work, DO NOT rely only on the flux in the solder. That's only there to keep flux flowing AFTER you've started soldering. You want flux on the pieces you're soldering BEFORE you start soldering.
   
  se


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## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> The DIY forum sees a lot of the same questions repeated frequently, so I'm starting this thread to consolidate some of the information people can use. Apologies if this OP starts sketchy and is slow to fill in: I'm researching old threads as I go.
> 
> If you have info to add (or can help other people here), great!
> 
> ...


 

 @ardgedee, great start on a helpful reference!


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## liamstrain

Regarding your headphone connectors table - the 2 pin for Senn HD600/650/25, etc. While proprietary, does have a Cardas alternative that fits - the HPSC.
   
  Great thread.


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## Mad Max

There's a gold-plated Chinese alternative for $3USD less, LOL!


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## Parall3l

Hey Ardgedee, why not add some cheap not so well known cable and/or parts sellers to the OPs ?


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## ardgedee

Working on it!


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## ardgedee

Quote:


steve eddy said:


> One word: _*FLUX*_ (both liquid and paste).


 

  Thanks! Can you give a quick breakdown on when you'd use liquid and when you'd use paste?


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## AnAnalogSpirit

ardgedee
   
  ardgedee,
   
  Looking at the Connectors section of the OP, under TRRS connectors, it doesn't mention HiFiMAN, as some of their headphones and now the Balanced Amplifier Card use the Balanced TRRS connector,
   
  Just FYI for updating.


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## ardgedee

Quote:


liamstrain said:


> Regarding your headphone connectors table - the 2 pin for Senn HD600/650/25, etc. While proprietary, does have a Cardas alternative that fits - the HPSC.


 
   
  The main connectors tables are meant to list what the connectors are, not necessarily who's making them - in the case of things like the SMC and Auto-IRIS connectors, the added information is mostly to help people find parts available through channels other than the usual audio hardware suppliers. With a little diligent googling, the info on the chart should be sufficient to track down any component as long as it's in current production, even if the source is somebody other than the official manufacturer.
   
  There's an idea underlying your suggestion, though. Maybe I should create a list of component manufacturers? That could quickly get out of hand -- there are a lot, and there's a lot of churn. 
   
  Quote:


pingupenguins said:


> Whoops. I meant Solder fume extractor, but a solder vacuum can be used too. I don't call solder vacuums, suckers because they can be mixed up with braid in my experience.
> 
> A USB type B pin out would be nice too!


 
   
  I hadn't thought hard about listing digital connectors. Are there any other formats that head-fiers are known to scratch build?

 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLACvest* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Looking at the Connectors section of the OP, under TRRS connectors, it doesn't mention HiFiMAN, as some of their headphones and now the Balanced Amplifier Card use the Balanced TRRS connector,


 
   
  I hadn't heard of this. I'll add a placeholder shortly and research it later.
   
  Thanks for the suggestions and hints, guys. Keep 'em coming.


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## Pingupenguins

Wattage of the resistor for a LOD. I've been told my 1/8w or 125mw is enough. We shall see... I don't even own a iPod to test it. :/


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## ardgedee

Sorry for not seeing your PM earlier. I don't know what wattage value is appropriate, but I doubt the line-out port is generating much.


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## Pingupenguins

I would put it up thought, just so people know. Small resistors makes for a tiny LOD and small resistors are also low wattage. I think it would have been helpful. I'll get back to you on the 1/8watt resistor.


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## salimnanji

Hey! There are not questions here yet, and I didnt want to start another thread just for a question I'm sure anyone can answer.

 I'm totally new to this whole DIY sort of thing and thought I would start off making my own cables, so I bought all the supplies and everything is here now.
 When I stripped my wire (24 AVG - 19 Strand) and tried to insert it in the hole to solder it, I realized that the wire does not actually fit in the hole! It's http://www.av-outlet.com/images/viablue/t6s-35mm-stereo-small-D.jpg

 But I don't think you really needed to know those details, basically my question is, since the wire doesnt fit in the hole, what do I do? Will I have to buy smaller wires or something? Or do I just solder it anyways on top?
   
  Thanks


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## Grorbabrag

salimnanji said:


> Hey! There are not questions here yet, and I didnt want to start another thread just for a question I'm sure anyone can answer.
> 
> 
> I'm totally new to this whole DIY sort of thing and thought I would start off making my own cables, so I bought all the supplies and everything is here now.
> ...




What pingu said, as long as you have a firm and stable connection there is no problem in not using the holes. I'd recommend a multimeter to test the connectivity before assembeling the headphones again, I've mad that mistake multiple times in the past. :rolleyes:


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## ardgedee

You could also bend a couple strands to go through the hole and put the rest on top. This requires a little extra effort though.


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## joelk2

im pretty certain the shure's use a MMCX connector. widely available


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## Pingupenguins

Can you please post the shops that sell that connector?


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## JamesMcProgger

great idea. this thread deserves to be a wiki. will read in detail later and see if I can provide something useful


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## ardgedee

Quote:


joelk2 said:


> im pretty certain the shure's use a MMCX connector. widely available


 

 I'll look into it. The headphone connectors on cables are kind of weird to track down. Which is a large part of why I started this thread.
   
  If you can confirm the connector type, that'll be a big help. A link to a head-fi post where somebody says that he used such-and-such a connector when he built his cable. That's how I've been correlating a lot of the data.

  
  Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> Can you please post the shops that sell that connector?


 

 To be honest the first places I look are the high-end cable builders' websites, since many of them sell DIY parts, and then I try Ebay.
   
  Things like 3.5mm plugs are easy to find everywhere, but IEM connectors are esoteric and most of the major vendors don't see any point to stocking them.
   
   
  Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> great idea. this thread deserves to be a wiki. will read in detail later and see if I can provide something useful


 

 Thanks. Gathering the data for the tables is pretty time-intensive, so I can't make much progress on them during weekdays.


----------



## joelk2

Hello,
   
http://www.shure.nl/dms/shure/products/earphones/user_guides/se215-exploded-diagram_EN/se215-exploded-diagram_EN.pdf
   
  please see the attached diagram which states about the connection being an mmcx type.
   
  as im from the uk i would buy from here.
   
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=oss&searchTerm=mmcx
   
  let me know if you need any more info.
   
  i must add ive never made a cable before which has brought me to this thread. i want to make some custom shure cables so looked into the connection for myself. once i find information on wires needed and heatshrinks/techflex i will attempt to document my progress with makng the cable. if anyone can direct me in what wire is needed i would be most apprieciated and i hope the info  have provided is usefull to others.


----------



## ardgedee

Thanks, joelk2. That's a great help.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> great idea. this thread deserves to be a wiki. will read in detail later and see if I can provide something useful


 


  I agree with that idea. This resourse is a fantastic idea and will become a valuable resource for the whole community


----------



## ardgedee

Copying the information posts to a wiki is a good long-term plan, but for now I would rather keep everything contained in this thread so that there's only one information resource to maintain and keep up-to-date, rather than two.


----------



## Avro_Arrow

I posted about the Shure connector way back here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/575305/looking-for-two-iem-connector-part-names-or-numbers#post_7813751


----------



## ardgedee

Thanks for the updates.
   
  I'm maintaining a shortlist of info requests at the top of each relevant post (right now there's only a list for the Connectors post). Some of the items are stale now and I'll refresh the list tonight, but anybody who wants to focus their help on those topics are encouraged to.


----------



## Avro_Arrow

I already replied in the wrong thread...


----------



## Parall3l

Does anyone have a video of how to do a 4 braid ? Google can't show me anything.


----------



## joelk2

Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> As for wire, I find myself using this over Navships wire.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/250997270041?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1156


 

 Thanks
   
  looks a good price too.
   
  what am i supposed to be looking for in the way of wire for cables? anyone know of uk suppliers?


----------



## Avro_Arrow

Is this useful?
   
  http://psp.tephras.com/tutorials/braids/index.html


----------



## Avro_Arrow

Canadian Cable and Connector supplier:
   
Take Five Audio


----------



## Parall3l

Quote: 





avro_arrow said:


> Is this useful?
> 
> http://psp.tephras.com/tutorials/braids/index.html


 


  Awesome, thanks


----------



## Lurkumaural

Some additions to the headphone connectors section:
   
  • Not sure if you want to mention all the Sennheiser headphones that use the 2-prong connector; there are a lot, and they include a lot of the older headphones that people might not know about since Sennheiser tries to sell you a different replacement cable for the older headphones versus the newer ones.
  • The 3-pin mini-XLR on the AKG K702 is also used by a few different AKG headphones, including the Q701, K240, K181DJ, K141, K271, and maybe others.
  • The LCD-2 uses dual 4-pin mini-XLR.  The wiring can be found at wikiphonia.  Left connector: L+ on pins 1 and 4, L- on pins 2 and 3.  Right connector: R+ on pins 1 and 4, R- on pins 2 and 3.
   
  There's a whole lot more we can all contribute, and we should all be fact-checking each other (and I say this primarily because I would happily defer mastery of this knowledge to someone who's dealt more with these cables).  I am really excited to make this info thread comprehensive. 
   
*ardgedee*, you have done an excellent job initiating and organizing this information.  I hope this remains a very handy reference; it will only get bigger and will require a bunch of effort from all of us to maintain it.


----------



## Lurkumaural

Some information about wires, to start us off:
   
  Gauge is the descriptor of how thick a wire is, and is measured (I think) by the diameter of the conductor (as opposed to the insulator).  I think that most stock wiring will not exceed 26awg, with a few notable exceptions like the LCD-2, which has a stock cable consisting of one 22awg wire per connection.  Some stock wiring, especially single-entry wiring routed through a headphone's headband, will be surprisingly thin, like in the 30s, which is IEM cable territory.  Many upgrade cables have a thicker gauge (than stock) as chosen by the one designing the cable, and there is some anecdotal evidence that this improves the sound.  References for gauge as a function of diameter are easy enough to find on the internet or in books, though I have a severe allergy to the latter, that I discovered in college.
   
  Wire can be found in either solid core or stranded variety.  A higher strand count has the advantage of withstanding more extreme and repeated flex without compromising the integrity of the conductor.  Common strand counts for the wires in easily available DIY headphone cables are 7 and 14.  Higher strand counts can be found, and paranoid people like me will prefer them.  Also worth noting is that higher strand counts are common in lower (thicker) gauge wire because more fine strands can be aggregated to form a lower resultant gauge.  Not sure what the benefits of solid core wire are, though they appear in enough boutique cable to lead me to believe that there is a benefit.  They make me really nervous because a solid mass of metal, in my shallow opinion, should not be bent even slightly under repeated flex if one can help it.
   
  The basic math approximates that two wires of the same gauge (e.g. 24awg) can be combined to an effective gauge that is three steps lower (21awg in the given example).  To again use the example of the LCD-2, an 8-wire cable will have 4 wires going to each cup, meaning 2 wires to L+, 2 to L-, 2 to R+ and 2 to R-, with the effective gauge of the wire determined as most previously stated.
   
  There's a whole sub-segment of cable science that address geometry, or how the wires are combined, encompassing Litz braiding, star quad configuration, and other stuff that is beyond my scope.  These options will have consequent changes in capacitance, inductance (I think), common mode rejection, and again other stuff that I really can't speak about confidently.  Some of the professional cable makers among us have discussed this intelligently in the past on head-fi and other places, and are welcome to do so here for our benefit.  Or someone can search the forums.


----------



## Pingupenguins

What connector is the balanced output?
   
  http://www.raysamuelsaudio.com/products/sr-71b


----------



## Lurkumaural

SR-71B is on the first page, guy.


----------



## Pingupenguins

Quote: 





lurkumaural said:


> SR-71B is on the first page, guy.


 


  What? I was asking for the name of the balanced connector. Things like, Mini-xlr, 3.5mm, 4-pin xlr, coaxial.


----------



## ardgedee

It's an Auto-IRIS connector. Although specialty audio cable companies tend to call it the RSA balanced connector.


----------



## Pingupenguins

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> It's an Auto-IRIS connector. Although specialty audio cable companies tend to call it the RSA balanced connector.


 


  Thanks! Where can I get a few? I checked mouser and allied with no luck.
   
  EDIT:
   
  Found it.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Camera-Auto-Iris-4-Pin-Lens-Plug-Male-Connector-Solder-Style-/150721592711?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2317b4fd87
   
  OR more expensive at
   
  http://doublehelixcables.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=27


----------



## SpudHarris

Wow, can't believe all the great info on this thread. Fantastic work Ardgedee!! (and others)
   
  I'm a bit of a DIY'er so hope to be able to input also if I can.


----------



## Pingupenguins

I've always wondered. Whats the pin out for dual 3-pin XLR's?


----------



## Lurkumaural

Dude, it's on the first page.  Are you kidding right now?


----------



## Pingupenguins

Quote: 





lurkumaural said:


> Dude, it's on the first page.  Are you kidding right now?


 


  Dual 3-pin xlr.


----------



## Lurkumaural

You take the 3-pin XLR and make one for the left channel and one for the right.  I don't know what you're playing at, but balanced operation is either one 4-pin XLR, or dual 3-pin. 
   
  If this is some young whippersnapper exercise in ironic humor, I gotta admit, I'm not getting it.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> I've always wondered. Whats the pin out for dual 3-pin XLR's?






  
  Quote: 





lurkumaural said:


> You take the 3-pin XLR and make one for the left channel and one for the right.  I don't know what you're playing at, but balanced operation is either one 4-pin XLR, or dual 3-pin.
> 
> If this is some young whippersnapper exercise in ironic humor, I gotta admit, I'm not getting it.


 


  Pingupenguins, yeah, it's the fifth row in the first connector table. Lurkumaural is right that it's already there, but I can try to rewrite it for clarity if that's the problem you have with it.
   
  Your help is all appreciated, guys, but a little more calmly, please. Calling out people starts a feedback loop and lead to fights, and I'd rather this thread be as accommodating as possible. Even if it gets a little frustrating at times.


----------



## Pingupenguins

Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Pingupenguins, yeah, it's the fifth row in the first connector table. Lurkumaural is right that it's already there, but I can try to rewrite it for clarity if that's the problem you have with it.
> 
> Your help is all appreciated, guys, but a little more calmly, please. Calling out people starts a feedback loop and lead to fights, and I'd rather this thread be as accommodating as possible. Even if it gets a little frustrating at times.


 

 I got confused with channel shield. So if I was working on a dual 3pin. I could theoretically for the first pin?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> Thanks! Where can I get a few? I checked mouser and allied with no luck.


 
   
  Mouser stocks them. Catalog number 163-191J-E. They currently have 294 in stock.
   
  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/163-191J-E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiVzeGJYwRlHzHtO53G2%2fcJfI%3d
   
  se


----------



## scoopbb

thank you. i was looking for this. 
   
   
  Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> Regarding your headphone connectors table - the 2 pin for Senn HD600/650/25, etc. While proprietary, does have a Cardas alternative that fits - the HPSC.
> 
> Great thread.


----------



## scoopbb

anyone got a list of places to get silver plated copper wire?


----------



## Pingupenguins

I guess we should get a list going of places to buy stuff...


----------



## Avro_Arrow

This is the place I use:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/596713/the-diy-cable-info-and-help-thread/45#post_8170705
  
  Quote: 





pingupenguins said:


> I guess we should get a list going of places to buy stuff...


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Hello guys,
   
  I ran out of wires, I had this nice 22AWG  copper covered in silicon that I bought from "lasser emporium" recommended by Grokit(?), I liked it because it was very dosile and thin, I could fit 6 of those in a 7 strand paracord easilly. can anyone recommend me a similar product?
   
  thanks in advance.


----------



## ardgedee

Quote:


scoopbb said:


> anyone got a list of places to get silver plated copper wire?


 

 In the US, *Navships* is the best deal for hobbyist quantities of 25' (7.6m). You can't do better unless you're buying 100m reels. Only real downsides are the sleeves are either Teflon or Kapton, both of which are pretty stiff.
   
  Quote: 





jamesmcprogger said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> I ran out of wires, I had this nice 22AWG  copper covered in silicon that I bought from "lasser emporium" recommended by Grokit(?), I liked it because it was very dosile and thin, I could fit 6 of those in a 7 strand paracord easilly. can anyone recommend me a similar product?
> 
> thanks in advance.


 

 In the US, *Testpath* been recommended to me. The strand count is kinda' low, which might or might not matter. I haven't bought anything there yet but intend to.
   
  There are a lot of vendors based in Hong Kong selling 12 through 22 AWG silicone wire for pretty cheap, free shipping. I don't know anybody who's tried one of them yet. Search for silicone wire on Ebay. (Don't forget the "e" in silicone...)
   
  As for Laser Emporium, there used to be something at laseremp.com, but it seems to have gone defunct some time last fall, or fallen in a black hole or something.


----------



## SpudHarris

I am awaiting samples from a new supplier selling stranded copper and stranded silver (high strand count) in soft teflon. He has had it manufactured specifically.....
   
  When I get the samples I will post pics and give you guys the link. He will also be selling other HQ DIY connectors and associated stuff. It's quite exiting for me being in the UK as we don't have this sort of supplier here at present.


----------



## joelk2

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> I am awaiting samples from a new supplier selling stranded copper and stranded silver (high strand count) in soft teflon. He has had it manufactured specifically.....
> 
> When I get the samples I will post pics and give you guys the link. He will also be selling other HQ DIY connectors and associated stuff. It's quite exiting for me being in the UK as we don't have this sort of supplier here at present.


 

 i'd be interested in this.
   
  ive just ordered my SE215's so once they come im gunna have a bash at some custom cables for it.
   
  does anyone know how the MMCX connections are wired?
   
  im assuming when making a cable i need 4 wires comng from the 3.5mm a Left, a right, & 2 grounds?
   
  this then splits at the Y and i have a ground and right, then a ground and left. ground soldered to outer piece and then the signal (left & right bits) go to the centre pin?


----------



## SpudHarris

^ You will find all the pin outs you will ever need on the 1st page, a lot of work has gone into collating these and they will prove invaluable in the DIY journey....
   
  Anyone interested in quality wire check out here. He also has Copper and Silver Plated Copper in his other listings and is a great guy to deal with.
   
  Pics added. This stuff looks real nice quality.
   
  Copper





   
  SPC




   
  Silver


----------



## joelk2

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> ^ You will find all the pin outs you will ever need on the 1st page, a lot of work has gone into collating these and they will prove invaluable in the DIY journey....


 

 Thanks, ive looked at this but as you can see it only mentions 3 outputs on the "standard" 3.5mm jack.
   
  Left +
  Right +
  Ground
   
  every custom iem cable ive seen seems to have 4 wires coming from the 3.5mm. im taking a guess here but i should solder 2 wires to ground? one for Left & one for right?


----------



## monoethylene

The standard 3.5 mm jack has only 3 solder points. Left, Right and Ground. Nevertheless, if you are using one cable for the right and one cable for the left, you will have right +, right -, left + and left -, in terms that right + and left + are the signal going to the headphone and right -, left - would be the mass or ground.  Further you can also solder the cable shield in addition to the ground pin of the jack. But only to the jack..
   
  Maybe this will help you:
   
  http://www.savantaudio.com/wirediag.pdf


----------



## Parall3l

So is there any plugs out there that actually can fit the Mogami 2534?


----------



## joelk2

Quote: 





monoethylene said:


> The standard 3.5 mm jack has only 3 solder points. Left, Right and Ground. Nevertheless, if you are using one cable for the right and one cable for the left, you will have right +, right -, left + and left -, in terms that right + and left + are the signal going to the headphone and right -, left - would be the mass or ground.  Further you can also solder the cable shield in addition to the ground pin of the jack. But only to the jack..
> 
> Maybe this will help you:
> 
> http://www.savantaudio.com/wirediag.pdf


 


 Thanks.
   
  i think im right in waht im saying then. you solder 2 ground wires to the ground on the 3.5mm one for each channel


----------



## ardgedee

Attach *Left +* to the tip, *Right +* to the ring, and both *Left -* and *Right -* to the sleeve. (For our purposes, that's what's meant by "common ground")
   
  The four-conductor 3.5mm plugs you see are for iPhone, Android, Nokia, etc., phones. The extra contact point is for the microphone.
   
  HiFiMAN uses a 4-conductor 3.5mm plug for non-microphone balanced connections on one of their products, but unless you have a HM-801 with a balanced amp, this is not your concern.


----------



## SpudHarris

Quote: 





joelk2 said:


> Thanks, ive looked at this but as you can see it only mentions 3 outputs on the "standard" 3.5mm jack.
> 
> Left +
> Right +
> ...


 

 Apologies, I should go back and read it all again myself. Wrongly assumed it would be covered as there was an abundance of great info. Sorry, I wasn't being rude..


----------



## joelk2

Quote: 





spudharris said:


> Apologies, I should go back and read it all again myself. Wrongly assumed it would be covered as there was an abundance of great info. Sorry, I wasn't being rude..


 


 Not to worry mate, didnt take it as being rude. i am new to this so every bit of help is grately received.
   


  Quote: 





ardgedee said:


> Attach *Left +* to the tip, *Right +* to the ring, and both *Left -* and *Right -* to the sleeve. (For our purposes, that's what's meant by "common ground")
> 
> The four-conductor 3.5mm plugs you see are for iPhone, Android, Nokia, etc., phones. The extra contact point is for the microphone.
> 
> HiFiMAN uses a 4-conductor 3.5mm plug for non-microphone balanced connections on one of their products, but unless you have a HM-801 with a balanced amp, this is not your concern.


 


 Thanks buddy, it would be as the first line. i did see the four conductor one but myself would be using a three.
   
  no HiFiMAN products in my collection.
   
   
  this all could go horribly wrong and i'd just stick with my standard cable but i like to have a go and stuff and normally manage to scrape by. everyone has to start somewhere. this would be a good little project i think.


----------



## AnAnalogSpirit

Hello ardgedee,
   
  Finally found the pic and post with the pinout for HiFiMAN's TRRS pinout (this example is for the RE-ZERO) thought it would be insane of them to not implement the same topology across the whole line.
   
  LINK TO THREAD & POST:
   

http://www.head-fi.org/t/497347/re-zero-photos-first-thoughts-now-with-review-links/30#post_6723202
   

   
  ... and the image of the TRRS pinout.
   
   
   
  ------
  EDIT:
   
  WHOOPS! looks like I was too slow in posting! LOL. Well, here is the pic anyhow.


----------



## LizardKing1

Finally got around to visit this thread. This is an awesome idea, I wish I had something like this when I started. The connectors diagrams are really helpful, maybe adding a small image for each would be good too.
   
  Does anyone know any way to get the DHC Nucleotide shipped to Europe without the grotesque shipping costs? Maybe a group buy? I realize it's a signed shipping, but it's still excessive.


----------



## ardgedee

Thanks.
   
  I've been considering ways to add images. At the moment, short of drawing them all myself or mailing out a lot of permission requests, I don't know how to source everything legitimately.
   
  Sorry for the long delay in updates; non-headfi commitments have had to take priority for the past two weeks. This weekend should see more progress, charts-wise.


----------



## LizardKing1

You've already contributed a lot, no need to apologize.
  As for the images, how about using mostly Neutrik? They sell pretty much any connector, except for the proprietary ones (Sennheiser, HiFiMAN, AKG). That way you only have to send one e-mail. Besides, new members are usually recommended to use Neutrik when doing a cable so they'll relate the pic to what they'll be using.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





lizardking1 said:


> Does anyone know any way to get the DHC Nucleotide shipped to Europe without the grotesque shipping costs?


 

 What do you consider "grotesque"?
   
  Unless you need a LOT of wire, a USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelope is only $16.95US.
   
  se


----------



## LizardKing1

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> What do you consider "grotesque"?
> 
> Unless you need a LOT of wire, a USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelope is only $16.95US.
> 
> se


 

 Their main shipping method costs 40$. It says I can contact them for a 15$ not-signed shipping, which is what I usually pay for a signed shipping from the US. I'm not saying it's their fault.


----------



## scoopbb

ill be making my first cables tomorrow or monday.
   
  got sleeving, canare quad cable, a rean 3.5mm plug for my grados, viablue 3.5mm and splitter with the cardas hd650 connectors for the 650s. cant wait. ill let you guys know how it goes.
   
  thanks for all the good info.


----------



## PakoBoy

Hello,
   
  i have never made a cable so i need some help. 
   
  i have done some research and this is what i know. Can someone confirm if this is correct.
  i know this has been discussed but i not sure if i understand it correctly and a picture is easier to understand than words 
   
  3(red) wil be for the left ear
  2(black) will be for the right ear
  1 (brown) wil be ground

   
  and can someone explain me how to make the y-split.


----------



## LizardKing1

PakoBoy take your plug. Hold the tip, the part that you actually fit inside the jack, away from you, so you're looking at it from the back. The connector on your left is the left signal, the one on your right is the right signal. I can't exactly tell from that image, but I think you have it right.
   
  Now instead of splitting immediately after the plug like the image would suggest, after you solder the wires and hold them with glue, braid them - there are guides for it, google "litz braid". Cover the braided wires with nylon multifilament if you want. After a certain legth of your choice separate the left and right wires (signal and ground), now for the Y-split:
   
  You can use a piece of normal heatshrink in each group of the 2 wires, heat, then use a piece of self-adesive heatshrink where you splitted the wires, use metal tweezers to press the heatshrink in the middle, between the wires. Then heat that place and the heatshrink should stick together where you pressed with the tweezers, giving you a nice triangle splitter.
   
  Another idea is to use the barrel of a connector, if you're like me and botched a few connectors you should have plenty lying around. Also Qables sells a nice plastic splitter. If you're into crafts you can use anything with 1 entry hole and 2 exit holes, from bones to wood beads.


----------



## PakoBoy

thx a lot lizardking
   
  could you confirm if i can use this cable for audio purpose? because the description says its to connect battery 
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Red-1M-Black-20-AWG-Heatproof-Soft-Silicon-Wire-Cable-Battery-connect-/320859045570?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab4b07ec2#ht_1377wt_805


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





pakoboy said:


> Hello,
> 
> i have never made a cable so i need some help.
> 
> ...


 

 You have your tip and ring reversed. 
   
  The tip is always the left channel. (right = ring)


----------



## PakoBoy

Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> You have your tip and ring reversed.
> 
> The tip is always the left channel. (right = ring)


 


  so that basically means that the left ear should me right and the right ear should be left.


----------



## liamstrain

yes.


----------



## LizardKing1

Quote: 





pakoboy said:


> thx a lot lizardking
> 
> could you confirm if i can use this cable for audio purpose? because the description says its to connect battery
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Red-1M-Black-20-AWG-Heatproof-Soft-Silicon-Wire-Cable-Battery-connect-/320859045570?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab4b07ec2#ht_1377wt_805


 

 That's 20AWG wire, it's pretty big. The higher the AWG, the thinner the wire. I wouldn't use that since it will be unnecessarily bulky. Instead look into 24~26AWG wire, like Mogami w2534 and w2893. Of course if it's for an interconnect for your home, which you probably won't move more than once a month or so, I don't see the problem.


----------



## Phos

I've been working on making a custom HiFiMan cable but I have no idea what to do about strain relief at the headphone end, anyone know what to do with this?


----------



## liamstrain

You can buy cord boots, or use a few stacked pieces of shrink tubing... or use sugru... lots depends on if you are using a connector, or hardwiring.


----------



## LizardKing1

I've seen the eBay seller frankfranks35 selling OCC SPC wire for a relatively low price. I can't afford the pure silver wire, but I could stretch for the SPC. My question is, since it's OCC, should it be at least as good as the DHC Nucleotide?


----------



## scootermafia

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> What do you consider "grotesque"?
> 
> Unless you need a LOT of wire, a USPS Priority Mail flat rate envelope is only $16.95US.
> 
> se


 


  Priority mail is slow and has gotten lost before.  It isn't trackable.  And if something that isn't trackable doesn't arrive, the buyer automatically wins the Paypal claim.  Express only bro.


----------



## liamstrain

Quote: 





scootermafia said:


> Priority mail is slow and has gotten lost before.  It isn't trackable.  And if something that isn't trackable doesn't arrive, the buyer automatically wins the Paypal claim.  Express only bro.


 


  You can always buy insurance on a USPS package, which IIRC gives you tracking as a matter of course.


----------



## Pingupenguins

Quote: 





liamstrain said:


> You can always buy insurance on a USPS package, which IIRC gives you tracking as a matter of course.


 


  Some people try to avoid duties and fees. :/


----------



## liamstrain

If they are trying to do that, they can hardly complain when things go awry. *shrug*


----------



## LizardKing1

I've always been marveled by the fact that I have to pay more to have my stuff NOT lost. I mean I know it's the norm and everyone just does it, but when I go to a restaurant I don't pay an extra so that my food doesn't get dropped on the floor, it's just expected. In the case of a delivery company, if they lose a package, they have successfully ruined the only thing required of them: deliver something. I don't see why I should pay more for what is already the bare essencial.


----------



## liamstrain

While i don't disagree with you in principle. In practice, there is little to be done about it. For what it is worth, I have never had anything lost in shipment, regardless of method. But from a business perspective, I regard the extra cost as my own insurance. I'm protecting myself, as much as anything. 
   
  The only time it *might* have happened was a claim by someone later arrested for mail fraud, so I am not putting much stock in it.


----------



## LizardKing1

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy the insurance. If I'm ordering something like expensive wire or new headphones, I want a signed shipping, even if that means paying something like 40$. I just disagree that having your order not lost is generally accepted as a privilege.


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## Mad Max

Damn, hard to disagree with either of you.


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## The8thst

lizardking1 said:


> I've always been marveled by the fact that I have to pay more to have my stuff NOT lost. I mean I know it's the norm and everyone just does it, but when I go to a restaurant I don't pay an extra so that my food doesn't get dropped on the floor, it's just expected. In the case of a delivery company, if they lose a package, they have successfully ruined the only thing required of them: deliver something. I don't see why I should pay more for what is already the bare essencial.




I am in the middle of fighting with UPS over losing a $10,000 assembled, wired, and programmed rack of equipment, and your made me almost fall out of my chair laughing, so this made my day. Awesome post.

It will surely be included in my correspondence with UPS on Wed when we officially meet the "10 Day Lost Shipment Requirement" before starting an official loss claim.


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