# Van Den Hul First Ultimate



## tomek

Hi, I recently heard a pair of Van Den Hul First Ultimate IC's vs a pair of stock ICs that I was using. The difference was astounding. The First Ultimates were laid back, incredibly clear, and compeltely free of all grain.

 However, at 500 CDN for a pair, they seem a little pricey. Do these ICs really stick out above the competition as the salespeople led me to believe, or can I get a pair of ICs that do very well for much less?

 prior to this audition, I didnt think cables did anything. But i couldnt miss the difference these cables made.

 anyone have experience with these cables? how do they compare to some of the less expensive cables that van den hul puts out? are there other carbon based halogen free cables out there?

 i worry about buying cables, I know how much variation there is in price, and I know that cables more than other components, can be nothing more than snake oil.


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## Anders

I have not heard this cable myself but seen that some regard it highly while others are less impressed. Could be preferences and system matching. It seems to be good on what you say, clear and without grain. Would like to hear one myself because this cable could have something special.
 Best would be if you can borrow it and test it in your own system. Then you only have to answer if it is worth the money for you. Of course, there may be other cables that you would like better among the hundreds of cables on the market. It is up to you how much time you want to spend on it. 
 You say there was an astounding difference and then you express a fear of snake oil. Your have to decide what you beleive in and if you beleive what you hear! I admit it can be hard to beleive it the first time you hear a really great difference. Try once more to check if you hear it again!


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## tomek

yes, I heard teh difference, that I do not deny. My only question is whether there are similar products for less.

 I still have trouble believing how much cabling costs, relative to other more complex components of high end systems.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

The active force gold interconnects below will destroy those van duhal interconnects. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I mananged to get them new for half price on an audiogon auction and they come with a 45 day moneyback guarentee.

http://www.auralthrillsaudio.com/The%20Force.htm

 Biggie.


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## tomek

if there toronto meet happens, i expect to see and hear them.


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ _
*The active force gold interconnects below will destroy those van duhal interconnects. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. * 
 

YOu mean Van Dull Hul?


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## Kirium

Looks like there's folk on the board here that think van den Hul belongs firmly in the snake oil category.... I don't think so... I may be biased, becuase I use the First ultimate from CDP->AMP, but i find it to be an extremely neutral and uncoloured IC with exceptional clarity... it is certainly a "reference" (a word that gets thrown around alot within audiophile circles) IC that I judge all others by...Of course some here will disagree, and claim that VdH make crap cable I'm sure....

 It should be noted that Meridian employ VdH exclusively to make the digital cables which run from their processors to their active digital loudspeakers... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 For good reason I'm guessing...


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## tomek

Kuma, you've heard the first ultimate and weren't impressed? what kind of cable do you recommend then? 

 and kirium, have you compared the first ultimate to the ultimate or other offerings from Van Den Hul?


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*Kuma, you've heard the first ultimate and weren't impressed? what kind of cable do you recommend then?* 
 

Warm, and natural sounding cables with a decent midband. Tad slow for me. 

 Perhapsn you want to explore Analysis Plus or Wireworld. They sort of sound alike but cost less. 

 For entry level cables, Cardas 5C are still good buy.


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## Kirium

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*Kuma, you've heard the first ultimate and weren't impressed? what kind of cable do you recommend then? 

 and kirium, have you compared the first ultimate to the ultimate or other offerings from Van Den Hul? * 
 

Do you mean The First Ultimate compared to The First?? The First, as it is appropriately titled, was VDH's first carbon conductor IC. i think it was bought out a few years ago, and The First Ultimate has since replaced it. Honestly, I can ever recall having compared them back to back, and if i have, i was unaware of it.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 From vague memory, the first ultimate is a fraction better than it's predecessor, i think in detail, speed and accuracy, and most likely, general musicality....

 i think van den hul make other cables called the second and maybe the third which use linear structured carbon.... they may be cheaper than the first...

 EDIT: just checked their website, and the second is a balanced version of the first and the third is a carbon loudspeaker cable...

 and to answer the second part of your question, no, i haven't, but have a look on http://www.hificables.co.uk they make a version of the van den hul D102 III IC terminated with bullet plugs, which is supposed to be quite good.... i'm thinking about picking a set up...


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Lol Kuma, nothing sounds dull with rs-1's. 

 My amp actually has vdh headphone wiring in it. I've also spent plenty of time with vdh interconnects hooked up to my system and it did not compare to the active force interconnects I use now.

 Biggie.


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## tomek

biggie, did you have carbon the first ultimate IC's? I've heard that these are much better than their other cables.

 the guys at audio upgrades used them on their system, and swore by them.


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## kuma

Quote:


 _Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ _
*Lol Kuma, nothing sounds dull with rs-1's. 
* 
 

Ha. Biggy, you've got the point there. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I've tried VDH with speaker based systems, not with RS1.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*biggie, did you have carbon the first ultimate IC's? I've heard that these are much better than their other cables.

 the guys at audio upgrades used them on their system, and swore by them. * 
 

Where do you think I heard the vanduhuls from. 

 Seeing as they modded my amp 5 seperate times, I had a lot of time with their interconnects.

 Biggie.


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## Kirium

There's a First Ultimate on Audiogon for $175 US... dunno what that is in CDN... check it out here 

 you can also get them from UK sellers on eBay... like this one here 

 or do a search for "first ultimate" or "van den hul"


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## Orpheus

Quote:


 Hi, I recently heard a pair of Van Den Hul First Ultimate IC's vs a pair of stock ICs that I was using. The difference was astounding. The First Ultimates were laid back, incredibly clear, and compeltely free of all grain. 
 

 be careful man. if you auditioned these at the store, don't you dare believe what you heard there. psychology is very powerful, and sometimes even a little trickery is evident from the salespeople. make sure you "hear" these at home... then you can develop a real opinion.

 what i don't get is why people keep asking others how a cable sounds? if you read an opinion before your audition, it's bound to affect your judgement. personally i couldn't hear the difference between any cable i have ever tried, and i have many here... all the way from my self-made ones to cardas and kimber hero's. and yes, my hearing is average, just like everyone else's.

 so, again, take it home to try, and don't ask for anyone's opinions before forming your own.


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## tomek

orpheus, the difference was night and day. there was no missing these carbon cables versus my 80 dollar audio technica cables.

 i was shocked. the grain was gone and it was laid back, yet incredibly clear. the fatigue factor was greatly reduced.

 i couldn't believe it. of course, im a skeptic, so they left me there and me and my girlfriend did blind tests, and we couldn't miss it.

 these were the least pushy salespeople i've ever met.

 prior to this, i thought all cables were snake oil.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Fab Audio has no sales people, just two guys that know a crap load about audio and love what they do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Its hard to go there and not buy something hehe..

 Biggie.


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## Orpheus

Quote:


 there was no missing these carbon cables versus my 80 dollar audio technica cables. 
 

 well, wouldn't call you a skeptic if you already have $80 cables.


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## Magic Robert

If you like the First Ultimate, but want to spend less to get it, these cables have a similar signature.

 I like them - and really like the price.


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## tomek

Orpheus: Those cables are what helped to hammer in the skeptic in me, since I could hear no difference whatsoever with those compared 2 dollar stock RCA's. I got them as a gift in Japan and although they look really nice, they might as well be used to hang clothes from.

 Kirium, thanks for the tip. I ordered a pair of First Ultimates from the netherlands for much much less than I could ever hope to find them here, or on Audiogon. I should have them in time for the TO meet I'm hosting.


 Toodles.


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## tomek

Well, I got my First Ultimates and tried them out on my system, and heard absolutely no difference. 

 Now, I DID hear these cables before, and the system I heard them in revealed a huge difference between them and my Audio Technica cables.

 My question is this. How much resolving power must a system have to show cable differences? I have a good source and good headphones, but I'm running it all through a cheap receiver with headphone out. Could it be that this alone is what's preventing me from hearing the cables?

 What am I gonna do now with these things? I was thinking of maybe trying a pair of STAX headphones. These come with their own amp. If I used the Van Den Hul IC's between that amp and the CDP, should I THEN expect to hear the difference in cables?

 Anyone with STAX gear mess around with cables?


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## Wodgy

Quote:


 _Originally posted by tomek _
*Well, I got my First Ultimates and tried them out on my system, and heard absolutely no difference. 

 Now, I DID hear these cables before, and the system I heard them in revealed a huge difference between them and my Audio Technica cables.

 My question is this. How much resolving power must a system have to show cable differences?* 
 

Depending how the components in your system are engineered, cables may make less of a difference. It's not always a question of resolving power. A good source with a low output impedance will naturally be less sensitive to cables than one with an output impedance higher than, say, 2 kOhm. I'm sure the dealer demonstrated the cables on a system that is very sensitive to cables, but yours may not be.


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## tomek

sorry, i forgot to mention that basically the dealer and I used the same source. I brought mine as well when I did the tests, but they were with a modded tube amp and 5 thousand dollar speakers. but still, the difference was immense.


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## Anders

Could very well be that the headphone output has low resolution. My experience is that I hear the difference between cables more clearly in better systems. But this is not the only explanation. Cables are also system dependant and one cable can work better than another because it matches better in electrical properties as impedance and capacitance or what it is (there is little hard evedence about this) rather than becasue it is made of ulta-pure copper, silver etc.
 Could also be that the cable has to burn-in 100 hours or so and that you will hear the difference then. A highly debated topic where some are convinced that there is no burn-in effect.

 It is hard to predict what will happen with a cable change, you can get no difference, a little difference or a huge difference. So it is always best to try in ones own system before purchasing, if possible.
 If you have the option, try it with a better amp and listen. 
 Yes, Stax owners also mess around with cables, you can see an example in a thread about 10 rows below (currently!).


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## MartinB

I have the VDH Fist The Ultimate and I can definetely recommend it if you want a warmer and smoother sound without loosing detail.
 If you want an analytical cable you have too look elsewhere.
 But I love the VDH First The Ultimate because it sounds very natural. It's probably a very good cable if you use Grados....


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

Its probably your amp. My system (which has similar cd player and headphones to yours) notices large differences with different interconnects. Not so much with power cords.. my last cd player power cords did make a huge difference. Its all relative.

 Biggie.


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## tomek

Well Biggie, I'm just gonna assume and hope that you're right. Come the 20th, I'm going to get a chance to mix cables, and hear these cables through another amp. I bought this amp 7 years ago for 200 dollars brand new. I can imagine that the incredibly cheap terminals could negate any benefits that the cables may provide.

 BTW, I have a pair of Audio Techinca W100's now, I sold my Grado SR-325's. They hurt my ears too much, I think the 325's are way too bright.


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## NotoriousBIG_PJ

I'm assuming your headphones resolve about the same detail as my rs-1s. And hey they are both wood. 

 Biggie.


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## skullguise

I have a pair of the original First's. They DO have a natural, smooth midband, with great clarity there. I found them a little light on the bass, and rolled off in the high's. I htink it has to do with the capacitance of the carbon.

 Aside from the one comment someone made regarding the First's vs. the First Ultimates, has anyone else got anything to say about it ? I'd liek to hear some definite comparison feedback.

 I also have the D-102 Mk III Hybrid's. I find them a VERY nice cable, they do the frequency extremes better than the First IMO (maybe they're SLIGHTLY harsh, but not bad at all). But the First still is a clear winner in the mid's, especially vocals.

 A couple Audiogon folks make some very nice cables: NotoriousBIG_PJ mentioned the Aural Thrills Gold Force. I have this as well, and can heartily concur. Even their Black Etude cable and Chrome Axiom are way cool for the $$.

 The last recommendation is for cables by Audiogon user greggstraley. His name, you might be surprised to hear, is Gregg Straley 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 He makes a twisted pair type cable, stranded copper. He finds the cleanest plug he can (even to the point of using some cheap plastic ones, but they sounded the best of what he had tried up to that point), and he cryo's the cable, then cooks it for a week or so on a Cable Cooker.

 I have had $800+ (list) interconnects in my system, this thing beat almost everything out. And it was under $100 ! Gregg now is making rev 3 of the cable, at around $120 IIRC.

 The best cableI've heard in my system, though, is by Tritium. These nutcases love music, and they have funky but effective units called Triphazers. Expensive, but I won't take them out of my system. They make an RCA cable with Triphazers built in, and they also make a cable marketingly called the Ultra High Velocity (UHV). I have the UHV made with 6*9's gold wire. This is my champion, price be damned.

 OK, I doth ramble. Peace, love and happiness to all...with a side of fries.


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