# Audio GD NFB-11.28 vs R2R 11



## crowally

*NFB-11.28 *(http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/NFB1128EN.htm)
or*
R2R 11 *(http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm)?

What would you say?


----------



## Greg121986

At that price, R2R 11 easy. 

I could be wrong, but this looks like a different R2R module than what is used on the Singularity DACs. The Singularity DACs had pretty bad reception according to the comments I've read from people who tried it. I am hopeful the implementation in the R2R 11 is much better. It appears to be adapted specifically for the R2R DAC section.


----------



## JaMo (Aug 18, 2017)

Hi,
I have got my R2R-11 delivered today. I hooked it up in my network through PiCoreplayer 3.21 (RaspberryPi3B) via USB (Amanero) as a DAC-Preamp RCA's out to my McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A-mod and a pair of nice swedish speakers. I am in love with the R2R-11 already. I know it will need a 3-400 h burn in before matured but Wow(!) It is clear, spacey and involving right out of the box. Yes I own the 11.28 (w. TCXO) too so a future comparison is possible. But that later. This small R2R-11 is fantastic value I think. I agree with Kingwa saying: " They are not which is better but most different on the flavor and worth own both...."

For me the DSD-capability is a good feature. I have pretty much DSD-music besides the other PCM's and other formats. I have tested and it works just fine. This is my first R2R-device I think this will be a favorite.

To be continued.

Maybe a new thread should be started for the R2R-11 but I wrote here anyway because of the -11 formfactor/functions (Moderator may correct this.)

/Jan


----------



## crowally

Thanks for the answers. Can't wait for the comparison.


----------



## leeperry (Aug 23, 2017)

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm


> R2R 11 had the  exotic sound quality!



can't beat that!

hopefully it goes up to 11 too.


----------



## Filmguerilla

Hi, any impression on the R2R 11? Comparison with 11.28? I'm torned between the two for my Massdrop 6xx..



JaMo said:


> Hi,
> I have got my R2R-11 delivered today. I hooked it up in my network through PiCoreplayer 3.21 (RaspberryPi3B) via USB (Amanero) as a DAC-Preamp RCA's out to my McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A-mod and a pair of nice swedish speakers. I am in love with the R2R-11 already. I know it will need a 3-400 h burn in before matured but Wow(!) It is clear, spacey and involving right out of the box. Yes I own the 11.28 (w. TCXO) too so a future comparison is possible. But that later. This small R2R-11 is fantastic value I think. I agree with Kingwa saying: " They are not which is better but most different on the flavor and worth own both...."
> 
> For me the DSD-capability is a good feature. I have pretty much DSD-music besides the other PCM's and other formats. I have tested and it works just fine. This is my first R2R-device I think this will be a favorite.
> ...


----------



## JoeDoe

Hey there chaps, new R2R-11 owner here. I've only had it for a few days, but I'll be honest, it's been impressive thus far. It's a little shocking was a sub-$400 purchase can get you in this case! The sound is natural, cohesive, and non-fatiguing. I'm a 98% redbook listener, but this little guy is keeping pace with my 'big rig,' a modified MHDT Atlantis feeding a MAD Ear+HD. 

Will post more later on!


----------



## JaMo

Hi Filmguerilla, 

This is a hard one to choose between the 11.28 and the R2R-11. I have owned tho 11.28 for two months and it has been "baked" (burned in 100%). My R2R-11 has about 180 hours of "baking" so far. The R2R-11 will need approx. 350-400 hours in total to be complete. Despite that....

I have to agree with JoeDoe, the R2R-11 has a better soundimage and it is a bit more lively. The both are identical regarding the functionality. The R2R-11 produces small pops when changing music with different sampling rates. The 11.28 is more sublime.

It is very hard to choose....Both are high perfomers. The size is like an older carradio. But personally I think the R2R-11 will be my favorite, as I wrote before.


I think You will be very pleased with any of them, but the Massdrop 6XX should be better matched with the R2R-11 because it is a bit smoother.

/Jan.


----------



## Filmguerilla

Thank you very much. Still looking for comparison and reviews before i decide.. 



JaMo said:


> Hi Filmguerilla,
> 
> This is a hard one to choose between the 11.28 and the R2R-11. I have owned tho 11.28 for two months and it has been "baked" (burned in 100%). My R2R-11 has about 180 hours of "baking" so far. The R2R-11 will need approx. 350-400 hours in total to be complete. Despite that....
> 
> ...


----------



## conquerator2

I'll paste my own impressions here as well: 

After selling my Theta and Mojo I was going into the R2R11 with a healthy dose of skepticism, owing to my mixed A-gd experience and low all-in-one price point.
Boy, was I in for a very pleasant surprise! Over the past days, this unit has made its place in my collection as one of the highest regarded units that I've ever owned (perhaps even listened to). The tonality with the included amplifier is spot on, very similar to how I remember the Theta and DAC-19 sounding like, but better detailed, with wider soundstage and just as much vintage goodness. The amplifier has ample power to drive most headphones and with the ones I've tested so far it sounded excellent. It has all the essential inputs (similar to the Mojo) and sounded excellent through the speaker outs with my monitors. The USB implementation is rock solid and as someone who's had many issues with their previous VIA USB32, performs flawlessly and sounds great. The ALPS potentiometer feels super smooth, there's low and high gain and it can be made slightly warmer sounding by adjusting a set of jumpers inside (I did not find this necessary myself). It runs barely warm to the touch and blends fairly well on a modern desk with its fairly small footprint.
For the asking price of $350 (well, closer to $450 if I account for shipping and VAT) I still couldn't believe it. Not only was the sound way above what I expected in the best case scenario (somewhere between the Mojo and Theta, closer to a DS device) but it also ranks as one of my cheapest, if not the cheapest audio gear purposes ever. Taking a glance at my profile, if I combine any number of amps and DACs together they always came out pricier and just not as good. To conclude, I am stunned and delighted that there's a unit like this available, and as much as it was a shot in the dark for me (completely new R2R design, new USB board, low price, mixed experience) I can safely say that this unit will stay here for a while and that I don't think there's frankly a better R2R DAC/amp combo out there right now in its price range and a few notches above it.
As pointed out, I previously owned their TOTL DS designs (NFB-7) and their DS all in one, which should be pretty similar to the NFB11 (Compass2) and R2R11 gets my vote. Easily one of my best purchases ever.


----------



## naif1985 (Sep 2, 2017)

Wrong forum


----------



## JoeDoe (Sep 2, 2017)

conquerator2 said:


> I'll paste my own impressions here as well:
> 
> After selling my Theta and Mojo I was going into the R2R11 with a healthy dose of skepticism, owing to my mixed A-gd experience and low all-in-one price point.
> Boy, was I in for a very pleasant surprise! Over the past days, this unit has made its place in my collection as one of the highest regarded units that I've ever owned (perhaps even listened to). The tonality with the included amplifier is spot on, very similar to how I remember the Theta and DAC-19 sounding like, but better detailed, with wider soundstage and just as much vintage goodness. The amplifier has ample power to drive most headphones and with the ones I've tested so far it sounded excellent. It has all the essential inputs (similar to the Mojo) and sounded excellent through the speaker outs with my monitors. The USB implementation is rock solid and as someone who's had many issues with their previous VIA USB32, performs flawlessly and sounds great. The ALPS potentiometer feels super smooth, there's low and high gain and it can be made slightly warmer sounding by adjusting a set of jumpers inside (I did not find this necessary myself). It runs barely warm to the touch and blends fairly well on a modern desk with its fairly small footprint.
> ...



Right there with you man! The more time I get with this guy, the more my 'premium' gear seems less premium. This really is a bit of a diamond in the rough. AGD stuff has always represented a great value and more times than not, various models hit much higher than their price point. This little guy though, is another thing altogether. I've been A/Bing it back and forth with separate components that cost 4x as much, and I'm having a _very_ difficult time picking out things that the more expensive stuff does better.

TBH the R2R reminds me a lot of the Denafrips Ares sound, but not only is the AGD cheaper, but it also includes a stout headphone amplifier! I'm torn between whether we should be shouting from the rooftops about this unit or quietly keeping its awesomeness to ourselves... 


PS - I certainly think that this is one of those pieces that could be moved into a larger, heavier case with and LCD screen and a bigger power supply, and then sold for $$$ and no one would be the wiser...


----------



## Filmguerilla

I think i'm sold with the R2R11 or NFB11.28.. Will contact Kingwa.  Thanks guys!


----------



## FredA (Sep 4, 2017)

JoeDoe said:


> Right there with you man! The more time I get with this guy, the more my 'premium' gear seems less premium. This really is a bit of a diamond in the rough. AGD stuff has always represented a great value and more times than not, various models hit much higher than their price point. This little guy though, is another thing altogether. I've been A/Bing it back and forth with separate components that cost 4x as much, and I'm having a _very_ difficult time picking out things that the more expensive stuff does better.
> 
> TBH the R2R reminds me a lot of the Denafrips Ares sound, but not only is the AGD cheaper, but it also includes a stout headphone amplifier! I'm torn between whether we should be shouting from the rooftops about this unit or quietly keeping its awesomeness to ourselves...
> 
> ...



Hate those reviews that make me buy. Hope i can resist this time. I was concerned Denafrips could beat Audio-gd with their r2r offerings. Seems like Kingwa is up to the challenge. On the best nights so far, the r2r 7 plays like a live concert. Could possibly terminate the Terminator. Those new r2r offerings are certainly great news for music lovers like me. Anyway, I like the simplicity of the r2r 11. I bought the NFB-15 6-7 years ago. The prices have gone up but there still great value coming with these small combos. Especially the R2R 11.


----------



## naif1985

conquerator2 said:


> I'll paste my own impressions here as well:
> 
> After selling my Theta and Mojo I was going into the R2R11 with a healthy dose of skepticism, owing to my mixed A-gd experience and low all-in-one price point.
> Boy, was I in for a very pleasant surprise! Over the past days, this unit has made its place in my collection as one of the highest regarded units that I've ever owned (perhaps even listened to). The tonality with the included amplifier is spot on, very similar to how I remember the Theta and DAC-19 sounding like, but better detailed, with wider soundstage and just as much vintage goodness. The amplifier has ample power to drive most headphones and with the ones I've tested so far it sounded excellent. It has all the essential inputs (similar to the Mojo) and sounded excellent through the speaker outs with my monitors. The USB implementation is rock solid and as someone who's had many issues with their previous VIA USB32, performs flawlessly and sounds great. The ALPS potentiometer feels super smooth, there's low and high gain and it can be made slightly warmer sounding by adjusting a set of jumpers inside (I did not find this necessary myself). It runs barely warm to the touch and blends fairly well on a modern desk with its fairly small footprint.
> ...


Your review makes me more confident about buying the new R2R-2


----------



## JaMo (Sep 8, 2017)

.


----------



## VintageFlanker (Sep 13, 2017)

I'm looking for a slightly neutral DAC/amp to pair with my K712 pros.

Here, in France, R2R 11 is 40€ cheaper than NFB 11.28 (369€ vs 409€, inc taxes). The opposite on Agd website where 11.28 is 20$ less!

I can't make my choice... The seller says 11.28 will be a better option for my K712. But, on the other hand, I'm really tempted by R2R 11 for try something different than usual Sabre chip!

Is the R2R 11 is neutral/uncoloured enough for a neutral combo with my K712?

Anyone compared these to the idsd Black Label?


----------



## conquerator2

VintageFlanker said:


> I'm looking for a slightly neutral DAC/amp to pair with my K712 pros.
> 
> Here, in France, R2R 11 is 40€ cheaper than NFB 11.28 (369€ vs 409€, inc taxes). The opposite on Agd website where 11.28 is 20$ less!
> 
> ...



Yes, just buy the R2R11


----------



## VintageFlanker

While the positioning is quite similar, the components used on the amp section are different from R2R to NFB. Specs of the headphone amp are similar. Any idea why?


----------



## FredA

VintageFlanker said:


> While the positioning is quite similar, the components used on the amp section are different from R2R to NFB. Specs of the headphone amp are similar. Any idea why?


Looks like a different transistor was chosen, otherwise, same circuit. Probably equivalent.


----------



## dw1narso

R2R 11 use SMT transistor vs 11.28 use hole through components.. from the electrical perspective, SMT application tend to be better than hole through components... (Better RFI resistance, lower impedance (though in order of micro ohms)...)


----------



## robm321

Filmguerilla said:


> I think i'm sold with the R2R11 or NFB11.28.. Will contact Kingwa.  Thanks guys!



Yeah, this is making me very interested also.


----------



## Lohb

Just discovered this one on AGD site. 

Looking peerless at this price-point.


----------



## Lohb

VintageFlanker said:


> I'm looking for a slightly neutral DAC/amp to pair with my K712 pros.
> 
> Here, in France, R2R 11 is 40€ cheaper than NFB 11.28 (369€ vs 409€, inc taxes). The opposite on Agd website where 11.28 is 20$ less!
> 
> ...



Straight from the r2r summary lower down on its AGD page...

" Option to set Neutral or Warm sound (Jumper setting) according to personal taste."


----------



## VintageFlanker

Lohb said:


> Straight from the r2r summary lower down on its AGD page...
> 
> " Option to set Neutral or Warm sound (Jumper setting) according to personal taste."



I'm testing the R2R 11 at this very moment (went set to neutral). 

The option "neutral or warmer" by switching jumpers exists for a long while even with their warmer sources. That doesn't mean the sound will be neutral, just less warm in this case. Or warmer in the case of NFB 11.28, but not as warm as their other solutions using PCM1794.

By the way, the R2R is very good, but it stills colored, some kind of tube/analogue signature but faster. The pops when switching songs or open an app on Windows bothers me, thought.


----------



## conquerator2

R2R should feel colored by design imo. I find it pretty neutral. In that sense rather, it's the modern DS that are etched while R2R designs remain faithful. IMO. YMMV


----------



## unclebrudy

VintageFlanker said:


> I'm testing the R2R 11 at this very moment (went set to neutral).
> 
> The option "neutral or warmer" by switching jumpers exists for a long while even with their warmer sources. That doesn't mean the sound will be neutral, just less warm in this case. Or warmer in the case of NFB 11.28, but not as warm as their other solutions using PCM1794.
> 
> By the way, the R2R is very good, but it stills colored, some kind of tube/analogue signature but faster. The pops when switching songs or open an app on Windows bothers me, thought.


Hey bud. I'm seriously considering the R2R-11 and wanted to pick your brain a bit about these pops.

I get them on my NFB-11, but only while it's warming up. I'd say give or take an hour and it's only when I stop listening to music for a while (figure, go make a sandwich or something) that the pops come back, and usually only on the start of the first song. Have your tried to test for pops across optical/coax/USB?

Thanks in advanced.


----------



## conquerator2

No pops through coax / optical here. Only from USB when changing sample rates


----------



## unclebrudy

conquerator2 said:


> No pops through coax / optical here. Only from USB when changing sample rates


Awesome! One step closer to paying. I've had the Audio-GD email sitting in my inbox for a few hours and needed a little push. Thank you for your time and reply!


----------



## conquerator2

unclebrudy said:


> Awesome! One step closer to paying. I've had the Audio-GD email sitting in my inbox for a few hours and needed a little push. Thank you for your time and reply!


Haha, you're welcome. Though I might reiterate here; I do get occasional pops through USB but I pinned it to my slower drive. It definitely stabilized over time if it was doe to the Anamero, but coaxial / optical remained pop free regardless. And regardless indeed, you would not regret buying this unit. It is a steal IMO.


----------



## VintageFlanker

conquerator2 said:


> No pops through coax / optical here. Only from USB when changing sample rates



Exactly the same here! Pops are coming, I think, from Amanero. I had the same with my DAC-19 10th (Also with Amanero USB)...


----------



## Raveyuk

VintageFlanker said:


> I'm looking for a slightly neutral DAC/amp to pair with my K712 pros.
> 
> Here, in France, R2R 11 is 40€ cheaper than NFB 11.28 (369€ vs 409€, inc taxes). The opposite on Agd website where 11.28 is 20$ less!
> 
> ...


I have the same dilemma as you, but in my case to pair with HD650 (and some orthos in the near future).

Either 11.28 and R2R seem a very good choice, so will probably get the R2R due to the fact that it is 40€ cheaper.

Is the popping issue a windows thing or from the USB itself?


----------



## Lohb

Anyone using the r2r-11 with OSX and getting USB pops, or is it just a windows driver thing ?


----------



## CJG888

Just ordered an R2R-11


----------



## VintageFlanker

Raveyuk said:


> I have the same dilemma as you, but in my case to pair with HD650 (and some orthos in the near future).
> 
> Either 11.28 and R2R seem a very good choice, so will probably get the R2R due to the fact that it is 40€ cheaper.
> 
> Is the popping issue a windows thing or from the USB itself?



I ear pops only with the USB input (Windows 10, usb 3.0), not with Coax and optical.


----------



## BWV656

Lohb said:


> Anyone using the r2r-11 with OSX and getting USB pops, or is it just a windows driver thing ?



I should receive mine in a week (or more)
I'll let you know if I get any pops with this setup
mbp2015 Sierra + Audirnava & HQPlayer


----------



## Lohb (Sep 22, 2017)

BWV656 said:


> I should receive mine in a week (or more)
> I'll let you know if I get any pops with this setup
> mbp2015 Sierra + Audirnava & HQPlayer



Perfect, I have A+ as well. Do you listen to electronic music at all ? If not, wondering if it generally makes music too smooth,if resolution is down a notch and also if timing is still very tight.


----------



## Aesopthe

Just got my R2R-11, the pops do happen when using the USB input on a Windows, but seems that only is specific scenarios. For me it's when using the _WASAPI (event)_ output in foobar and starting a new song. Outside foobar, or using the foobar _DS: Primary Sound Driver_ output doesn't produce pops. Can't compare to the NFB-11.28, but I'm reasonably sure it would be the same given it uses the identical Amanero combo 384 USB interface.


----------



## BWV656 (Sep 23, 2017)

Lohb said:


> Perfect, I have A+ as well. Do you listen to electronic music at all ? If not, wondering if it generally makes music too smooth,if resolution is down a notch and also if timing is still very tight.



Regardless of music genres, I think A+ & HQ makes everything a bit too smooth for my taste when I use the upsamping feature. That's why I always stick to 16bit / 44.1Khz. I mean my sources are 99.99% Red Book anyway. So I just play everything in their native format in both A+ and HQ. This way, I always have the best sound (for my taste) and peace of mind 

And also I never had a NOS R2R dac before, I am really curious how NOS part of the dac will do to the sound.  Like I said, I should get mine soon, so I'll report back here.


----------



## capetownwatches

VintageFlanker said:


> I ear pops only with the USB input (Windows 10, usb 3.0), not with Coax and optical.



I have found that using USB 3.0 results in a discernible increase in pops and other extraneous noise. 
Switching to 2.0 makes a big difference. 
There really is no need to use 3.0 for the purposes of audio streaming - the additional voltage is unnecessary and adds noise.

Just my $0.02..


----------



## Aesopthe (Sep 24, 2017)

Another peculiarity I've noticed is that it matters which USB input I use with the R2R-11. After trying multiple USB 2 outputs on the back panel of my PC, the sound through one of them always starts choking/tearing up after a few minutes. Could be specific to this port, since it's the only one it happens on, but it's strange nonetheless.


----------



## CJG888

Using it on the go (hotel room). Good so far, but it doesn't like my HDTracks 176 kHz files.


----------



## CJG888

This is about as big as you would want a (trans)portable system to be!


----------



## Jerda

Hey, someone know if r2r USB input supports iOS or android? Got no pc


----------



## CJG888

Apparently it works with an iPhone via CCK. Haven't tried it yet, though.


----------



## Jerda

Cause I asked audio GD about nfb11.28 some times ago and they say that with the nfb iOS isn't supported while android is supported until android 5.0 but non officially


----------



## CJG888

I'll try my iPhone with it when I get back to Europe.


----------



## jaxz (Sep 26, 2017)

How the R2R 11 will compare against Mody Multibit? (DAC only)


----------



## BWV656 (Oct 2, 2017)

Forget what I said before. Definitely keeping it. I'll post my impressions soon.


----------



## CJG888

This thing is made for Grados.


----------



## conquerator2

Oh I am sure it sounds fabulous with most stuff


----------



## CJG888

I mean there is a quite special synergy there. Oh, and I am also almost preferring to use it as an all-in-one unit rather than using the fixed line out into my SA-31SE. It's almost as if there is a certain amount of "frequency response tailoring" at the amp end to compensate for nonlinearities in the DAC. FeedIng the SA-31, there is a certain bass-heaviness and slowness which is absent through the R2R's own headphone stage (which, by the way, seems particularly "agile"). As there is no analogue input, such "response shaping" is feasible. Anyway, it works! Compared with the SA-31 there is, however, a little treble grain, and the soundstage is clearly narrower.

We'll see how it develops as it burns in (so far, it's only had about 50 hours). Sources have been my trusty old iBasso DX50 and the Shinrico D3S (with Custom Hifi Cables DC2 linear PSU), and headphones tested have been:

Hifiman HE400i
Beyerdynamic DT880/600
Beyerdynamic DT150
Custom Grado woodies (SR225i with Cocobolo cups by Yew Woodworks).

The best result so far has been with the Shinrico as source and the custom Grados.


----------



## CJG888

For anyone looking at an integrated solution at a sensible price, I would have no hesitation in recommending the R2R-11. It really is quite a bargain at the current price.


----------



## CJG888

Itching to try this with the DT48E (but they're already packed up for the house move). Now, which packing case are they in???


----------



## conquerator2

FYI, I had the SA31SE before and I think it stretches the soundstage wider than most any other amp. The R2R11 isn't too shabby though  I actually find the treble smoother overall than the SA31 but mileage does vary it seems.


----------



## CJG888

With the SA-31, for scale:


----------



## TheEldestBoy

I too am wondering how this compares to the iFi DSD Black Label.

I understand that the Black Label is more transportable.  I'm wondering more *how the sound compares*.  I'll be driving the HD 600/650's.

Can anyone comment?

And I'm wondering if one is better than the other at listening levels?


----------



## TheEldestBoy

I'm also wondering how this would compare to a Schiit stack (Magni 3 / Modi 2) ?


----------



## unclebrudy

TheEldestBoy said:


> I'm also wondering how this would compare to a Schiit stack (Magni 3 / Modi 2) ?


I can't give feedback on the iDSD Black Label (though believe me, it's on my radar and I will re-reply to this post when I do), but I _can_ give my opinion compared to the Schiit Stack, albeit the Magni 2 Uber with the Modi 2 Uber and not the Magni 3 as you asked.

I bought a Sescom switch a while back to compare my Stack with other setups. I have a soft spot for my Stack because it was my first serious DAC/amp setup when I got into the hobby, and through countless DAC/amp auditions I've always kept it around. Frankly, I was 50/50 on selling it when I got my NFB-11, and now it's 100% going to be passed on to someone after testing it against the R2R 11.

The Stack came in handy for me as a reference point, as I found it fairly neutral with just a tad of brightness to it. In my opinion the Fulla 2 is more neutral, but it couldn't push some of my headphones so I used the Magni/Modi 2U when baselining other things. Then I got the NFB-11 and _that_ to me was my new neutral, to a fault because I sometimes find it boring for casual listening. When doing nothing but listening to music though, it is peerless against my other gear, as it's revealing as hell.

The R2R 11, for lack of a better term, just sounds _real_. Honestly, I'm too new in the hobby to have the diction to properly describe it to you, but when starting my day listening to the Stack it sounds as good to me as it always has. However, if after extended listening on the R2R 11 I switch back to the Stack, it sounds cold and artificial - the word I said to myself once was it sounded _digital_. The R2R 11 is more enjoyable for me to listen to than both the Stack and the NFB-11, as it makes everything sound more natural and pleasant. From cymbals to vocals to guitar strums, bass drums and keyboards and everything in between, I get a sense that I'm actually listening to someone singing or playing said instrument versus listening to a really well-recorded version of it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the R2R 11 does any better at separation/staging/resolution than the Stack, but it just sounds cleaner, more natural, and more real to me.

I'd highly recommend you check it out if you can. Sorry if my ramblings didn't make sense. =)


----------



## CJG888

The more hours I put on this thing, the better it performs as a standalone DAC (into the SA-31). It has tightened up considerably, especially in the bass.


----------



## CJG888

BTW, with this DAC feeding the SA-31, I'm finding myself using the custom Grados to listen to classical (Hindemith, as I write this)!


----------



## CJG888

Before that, it was Coltrane's _Giant Steps_.


----------



## CJG888

I'm starting to think of doing something with a pair of Nhoord drivers (but that will be for another thread!).


----------



## shadowlord

JaMo said:


> . The R2R-11 produces small pops when changing music with different sampling rates. The 11.28 is more sublime.
> 
> /Jan.



I was looking to replace my NFB 12 (in which the usb input started failing) with a NFB 11 or R2R 11.
But digital noise during a sample rate switch sounds like a no go for me.

I did not buy a new dac in over 5 years, and i hoped that the sample rate switch noise was something they got under controll in the meantime.


----------



## BWV656 (Oct 5, 2017)

Yes, with USB, I hear clicks & pops from these sources
MacBook Pro 2015 > Vanilla Itunes > USB > R2R-11
MacBook Pro 2015 > HQPlayer > USB > R2R-11
MacBook Pro 2015 > BitPerfect > USB > R2R-11
MacBook Pro 2015 > Audirvana > USB > R2R-11
Also, sometimes I hear an unpleasant click going from iTunes to Youtube vice versa. So how about optical? Sadly I can still hear sampling rate switch noise.

For me, USB sampling rate switch noise is less annoying compared to the optical port. So I'll stick with the USB for now.

It's a real pity that I have all these problems. Becuase I absolutely love the sound of R2R-11. Initially lazy & blurry bass and mids and highs cleared a lot after using it for about 5 days now and I find the overall tonal balance, space, separation, and realism to be really beautiful.

Also with my previous DACs, audiophile media players like HQPlayer, Audirvana and bit perfect were necessary to bring out the best possible sound. But with R2R-11 I don't know if I need those anymore. I get absolutely beautiful sound even with vanilla iTunes.


----------



## BWV656 (Oct 5, 2017)

Ok, here is a good news,
Audio-gd asked me to try different sample rates to reduce the popping noise. And that did it! For me, 352.8 has the smallest pop compared to all the other settings and especially my previous setting which was @ 44.1. Huge difference! So do try all the sample rates if you find the popping sound too loud.  Now, this pop is so small it doesn't bother me at all.

Also, Audio-gd explained that the R2R-11 has no mute switch inside to get the purest and best signal.
Great, for better sound I can totally live with this tiny pop.


----------



## Jimster480

Does anyone know how this compares to other AudioGD products?
Have been considering trying out a R2R DAC. 
Currently using a Topping DX7 which is dual 9018K2M.


----------



## BWV656 (Oct 16, 2017)

If you want a specific comparison with other Audio-gd products might be best to ask kingwa directly. I mean, I bought R2R-11 to just use at work but I love the sound so much I wanted to get another or its bigger brother for my home setup. So I got totally hyped-up about getting R2R-2 and asked kingwa many questions. And the response I got from kingwa was very surprising because it didn't sound like someone trying to just sell stuff but he wanted to help me find exactly what I need. He basically told me to calm down (not his words of course) and burn-in for at least 10 days and see how I like the sound of R2R-11.

This is from audio-gd website.
*Sound flavor different between R2R 11 and NFB-11:
*          They are not which is better but most different on the flavor and worth own both just like you own some different headphones.
           NFB-11 sound detail, dynamic, control but not bright and hash.
           R2R 11 had the  exotic sound quality! Smooth, coherent and analogue, it had not emphasize anythings but had not miss.
           E.g : You can image the NFB11.28 like a high defined digital photo but the R2R 11 is a like real oil painting.
            If you are a new audiophile , you should choice the NFB11.28 better than R2R 11, NFB11.28 had the modern sound may easy suite the new audiophile.


----------



## Jimster480

BWV656 said:


> If you want a specific comparison with other Audio-gd products might be best to ask kingwa directly. I mean, I bought R2R-11 to just use at work but I love the sound so much I wanted to get another or its bigger brother for my home setup. So I got totally hyped-up about getting R2R-7 and asked kingwa many questions. And the response I got from kingwa was very surprising because it didn't sound like someone trying to just sell stuff but he wanted to help me find exactly what I need. He basically told me to calm down (not his words of course) and burn-in for at least 10 days and see how I like the sound of R2R-11.
> 
> This is from audio-gd website.
> *Sound flavor different between R2R 11 and NFB-11:
> ...



Yep I read that, how can I talk to this Kingwa? 
I assume that is the owner of Audio-GD?


----------



## BWV656

from Audio-gd website...

E-mail Address:      
audio-gd@vip.163.com
         (Please don't send email to king-wa@hotmail.com and audio-gd@126.com, it is difficult log in in term cause we can reply in time.)


----------



## Jimster480

BWV656 said:


> from Audio-gd website...
> 
> E-mail Address:
> audio-gd@vip.163.com
> (Please don't send email to king-wa@hotmail.com and audio-gd@126.com, it is difficult log in in term cause we can reply in time.)


Thanks I have emailed them now. 

I saw that email but it said for orders so I wasn't sure if I should email them with questions. Since I'm not certain on what I would be buying yet.


----------



## JoeDoe

R2R 11 review posted! https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/r2r-11.22707/reviews


----------



## Filmguerilla

Hi guys,, do you think R2R11 would be good for HD6xx? I'm going to order maybe next week.. Anyone tried this cans on R2R11 or NFB.11? Thanks


----------



## unclebrudy (Oct 16, 2017)

Filmguerilla said:


> Hi guys,, do you think R2R11 would be good for HD6xx? I'm going to order maybe next week.. Anyone tried this cans on R2R11 or NFB.11? Thanks


It'd be stellar. Easily powers them, and each unit's sound sig is conducive to the 6xx's strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I'd recommend the R2R 11 over the NFB-11 (I've owned both and tested extensively with the 6xx) simply because the R2R 11 is more musical, and the 6xx is a musical headphone.


----------



## Filmguerilla

You owned both? Wow.. Do you have an impression for both? I haven't keep track the threads on these two amps. Will do more research later.

I plan on using one of this on my Stereo setup as well as a DAC. Anyone had tried this as well?

I will contact Kingwa this week. Do they have waiting time for R2R.11?

Thanks!




unclebrudy said:


> It'd be stellar. Easily powers them, and each unit's sound sig is conducive to the 6xx's strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I'd recommend the R2R 11 over the NFB-11 (I've owned both and tested extensively with the 6xx) simply because the R2R 11 is more musical, and the 6xx is a musical headphone.


----------



## unclebrudy

Filmguerilla said:


> You owned both? Wow.. Do you have an impression for both? I haven't keep track the threads on these two amps. Will do more research later.
> 
> I plan on using one of this on my Stereo setup as well as a DAC. Anyone had tried this as well?
> 
> ...


I wrote a pretty long post earlier in this thread here. 

FYI, if this means anything to you, I loved the R2R 11 so much that I sold it...because it motivated me to order the R2R 2.

From order to my door (I'm in Southern California, USA) took 11 days.


----------



## Filmguerilla (Oct 16, 2017)

Thanks a lot man..

I'll read your post.. The R2R 2 looksssss awesome!!!
But right now i want to try the R2R11 because of my limited budget.
Does the R2R 2 a big upgrade from 11? Interesting indeed. I saw the design! What can i only say is WOW!




unclebrudy said:


> I wrote a pretty long post earlier in this thread here.
> 
> FYI, if this means anything to you, I loved the R2R 11 so much that I sold it...because it motivated me to order the R2R 2.
> 
> From order to my door (I'm in Southern California, USA) took 11 days.


----------



## unclebrudy

Filmguerilla said:


> Thanks a lot man..
> 
> I'll read your post.. The R2R 2 looksssss awesome!!!
> But right now i want to try the R2R11 because of my limited budget.
> Does the R2R 2 an upgrade from 11? Interested. I saw the design! What can i only say is WOW!


On paper it is a more capable unit all around. I also love everything about FPGA in a DAC. Another driving force was owning both the NFB-11 and R2R 11 felt redundant because the front end (amplifier) is almost identical (if not completely identical).

You won't regret the R2R 11 (nor the NFB-11 if you decide to go that route). They really punch well above their weight class, and you should not feel like you're compromising simply because you're budgeting - they are both great units and well-reviewed for a reason.


----------



## Filmguerilla

Thank you very much. I'm going to write Kingwa asap. 



unclebrudy said:


> On paper it is a more capable unit all around. I also love everything about FPGA in a DAC. Another driving force was owning both the NFB-11 and R2R 11 felt redundant because the front end (amplifier) is almost identical (if not completely identical).
> 
> You won't regret the R2R 11 (nor the NFB-11 if you decide to go that route). They really punch well above their weight class, and you should not feel like you're compromising simply because you're budgeting - they are both great units and well-reviewed for a reason.


----------



## BWV656

unclebrudy said:


> I wrote a pretty long post earlier in this thread here.
> 
> FYI, if this means anything to you, I loved the R2R 11 so much that I sold it...because it motivated me to order the R2R 2.
> 
> From order to my door (I'm in Southern California, USA) took 11 days.



Pretty much same here. I love my R2R-11 so much I want to get the R2R-2 + C2.
I'd love to hear your impressions of R2R-2.


----------



## Jimster480

JoeDoe said:


> R2R 11 review posted! https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/r2r-11.22707/reviews


While I like your review, I think that you should check out the Topping DX7.
Because its real-estate is smaller, it packs all the features and then some and it has a balanced Sabre design with filter selection and drives even the most sensitive of headphones with a 0.5db volume control.

As far as detail is concerned, Kingwa told me that the R2R NoS design will have a little less detail than a Sabre design but it has the warm analog sound that some people like.


----------



## JoeDoe

unclebrudy said:


> I wrote a pretty long post earlier in this thread here.
> 
> FYI, if this means anything to you, I loved the R2R 11 so much that I sold it...because it motivated me to order the R2R 2.
> 
> From order to my door (I'm in Southern California, USA) took 11 days.





BWV656 said:


> Pretty much same here. I love my R2R-11 so much I want to get the R2R-2 + C2.
> I'd love to hear your impressions of R2R-2.



I've got the R2R 2 and C-2 combo bc the 11 impressed so much. Review of that combo coming in a little while!


----------



## unclebrudy

JoeDoe said:


> I've got the R2R 2 and C-2 combo bc the 11 impressed so much. Review of that combo coming in a little while!


Well, looks like your former R2R 11 became my former R2R 11 and it’ll make its rounds and create future R2R 2 / C-2 buyers. Haha.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on both, can’t wait for your review. Frankly, the C-2 for me will have to wait. Wife said one toy at a time. I tried to use the “combined shipping!” excuse but she wasn’t having it.


----------



## Jimster480 (Oct 17, 2017)

JoeDoe said:


> I've got the R2R 2 and C-2 combo bc the 11 impressed so much. Review of that combo coming in a little while!


Waiting on a review for that.
I have had some interesting conversations with Kingwa over this and his pricing over the past week.

Because the R2R-11 has the same modules in it that the R2R-2 has, but the R2R-2 has no Amp but has more complex FPGA control??? (not even confirmed) yet it has a price that is ~2x that of the R2R-11 while removing some of the components.
When I asked about a R2R-2 with Amp he said "its too complex", when asking what the difference technically is between the R2R-2 and R2R-11 he couldn't answer that either.
When asking about the R2R-2 he said I need "atleast an amp that is $350 to take advantage of it".  Which honestly also makes no sense because Amps just literally amplify sound and there is no actual difference between class A and Class AB when driving headphones (from most technical standpoints, especially for sensitive headphones).
When I asked him what he meant by that and why the Amps price would matter, he couldn't clarify that either.

When I asked about his 11.28 (because he recommended it for Jazz/Classical, telling me that "old audiophiles" like the NOS sound and basically telling me that the Sabre design has more high level details than the NOS R2R design) vs the 1.28/1.38 he couldn't clarify that either.
Also the 1.38/1.28 and 28.28 and 28.38 are listed as "balanced" but they are not balanced as they only use 1 ES9028 or ES9038 in what hes calling "balance mode" which from what I see from ESS, simply doesn't exist. Its just the basic 2 channel mode, making it the same as any other DAC using a 9028/9038 and not at all what balanced actually is.
His only actually balanced design (for ESS) is $1500+ because those are actually using 2 chips in Mono.
When I asked him about the Topping DX7 being actually balanced with 2 chips he just replied that "our sound doesn't sound like other brands". I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean, as details and resolution are details and resolution, regardless of brand.

Also since his R2R design only decodes 1 channel per module, his single ended DAC is more like a balanced DAC anyway in the case that each module decodes its own channel vs decoding more channels.
When I asked him about this, he also couldn't clarify.

Not saying that he doesn't make good stuff or that he can't do it, but his pricing and his offerings don't make much sense and in some ways seem somewhat deceptive. Because single chip DAC's are never balanced, despite having XLR outputs or not (because literally anything can be converted into XLR).

I have currently sent him the questions in Chinese (a close friend of mine is a Chinese native) to see what he comes back with.

Edit:
He replied back in Chinese without providing any additional details.


----------



## FredA (Oct 17, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> Waiting on a review for that.
> I have had some interesting conversations with Kingwa over this and his pricing over the past week.
> 
> Because the R2R-11 has the same modules in it that the R2R-2 has, but the R2R-2 has no Amp but has more complex FPGA control??? (not even confirmed) yet it has a price that is ~2x that of the R2R-11 while removing some of the components.
> ...


I can answer why the r2r 2 cost more: it adds an altera dsp for oversampling, has a bigger transfo, more eloborate supplies, more elaborate output stage, bigger chassis, more connectivity options thus connectors. Adding a headphone amp option would not cost very much because it only adds a volume control and heaphone jack basically. There is no room left in the r2r chasis for adding it however.

Your point about the sabre product not being really balanced has some value, but really, i think your are more  referring to something called full dual mono, which requires independent transfo for each channel, and another one for digital. See the master-11s for instance.

But ever then the sabre chip could be run in 4-channel mode to implement balanced operation. Not sure if that is what's done. Audio-gd use acss stages (current signal), so they are different.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, all of this just makes the R2R11 really good value!


----------



## CJG888

Yup, and it sounds like they are probably pretty close in terms of NOS performance (and NOS is what I am after).


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> I can answer why the r2r 2 cost more: it adds an altera dsp for oversampling, has a bigger transfo, more eloborate supplies, more elaborate output stage, bigger chassis, more connectivity options thus connectors. Adding a headphone amp option would not cost very much because it only adds a volume control and heaphone jack basically. There is no room left in the r2r chasis for adding it however.
> 
> Your point about the sabre product not being really balanced has some value, but really, i think your are more  referring to something called full dual mono, which requires independent transfo for each channel, and another one for digital. See the master-11s for instance.
> 
> But ever then the sabre chip could be run in 4-channel mode to implement balanced operation. Not sure if that is what's done. Audio-gd use acss stages (current signal), so they are different.



Looking inside of the two of them via the pictures, they look very much the same.
An amp requires volume control and amp components of whatever design he chooses. Whether its current-feedback, standard op-amp with Class AB driver or a full Class-A setup. The cost of a larger transformer is negligable, and the size of the two units looks comparable atleast from pictures. Chassis don't cost that much to justify 2x the price by only adding in a DSP and removing everything else.
Additionally the R2R-11 has every output that the R2R-2 has minus the XLR connectors (which would be around $2 to add, since its not actually balanced anyway). But the R2R-2 has no headphone jack, POT, or gain switches, input selector options, etc.

Its obvious that the R2R-11 is analog control and the R2R-2 is digital control, but the cost of such controls are not high. When companies like SMSL can make the M8 and sell it for $180 via massdrop while still making a profit, it shows that the DSP switching stuff doesn't cost much.
Hell I have a SMSL xUSB with XMOS implementation for output to i2S HDMI, Coaxial, and Optical for $60 and it has a screen and a select button for output & power.

As far as the NFB series.... hes selling something as Balanced which is not balanced. Dual Mono IS balanced. Everyone else selling a Balanced product is selling it with 2 DAC chips running in Mono mode for a balanced output.
Running a single DAC chip in 2 channel mode is the same as every other non-balanced device like a SMSL M8 for example. Just because he splits the output at the end for 2 XLR connectors doesn't mean anything as XLR is literally just a connector and you can buy RCA->XLR adapters for around $5. 

As far as ACSS.... all the research I have done on it shows that it makes basically zero difference. It just transfers the current directly from one Audio-GD device to another Audio-GD device vs going through input/output buffers. 
This would be the same as using any device with an internal DAC/Amp vs using something that is 2 separate units. At the end of the day no real difference is made unless you use some horribly terrible cables and manage to find some products that are terribly mismatched.

I've plugged all sorts of Amps into different DAC's and they don't sound different from unit to unit, only volume is different based on the DAC's output voltages.


----------



## CJG888

I would guess that economies of scale may have something to do with the R2R-11's price (no options, integrated package designed to appeal to the "seeet spot" of the computer audiophile market). From a consumer's point of view, this is the one which is likely to offer the best value (also remember: integrated DAC/amp = no expensive inteconnects and only one mains lead!).


----------



## Jimster480

CJG888 said:


> I would guess that economies of scale may have something to do with the R2R-11's price (no options, integrated package designed to appeal to the "seeet spot" of the computer audiophile market). From a consumer's point of view, this is the one which is likely to offer the best value (also remember: integrated DAC/amp = no expensive inteconnects and only one mains lead!).


I mean I understand him trying to hit a "sweet spot" price. But at the same time the rest of his products seem to have very little value, especially once you see what you can get for the $350.


----------



## FredA (Oct 17, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> Looking inside of the two of them via the pictures, they look very much the same.
> An amp requires volume control and amp components of whatever design he chooses. Whether its current-feedback, standard op-amp with Class AB driver or a full Class-A setup. The cost of a larger transformer is negligable, and the size of the two units looks comparable atleast from pictures. Chassis don't cost that much to justify 2x the price by only adding in a DSP and removing everything else.
> Additionally the R2R-11 has every output that the R2R-2 has minus the XLR connectors (which would be around $2 to add, since its not actually balanced anyway). But the R2R-2 has no headphone jack, POT, or gain switches, input selector options, etc.
> 
> ...



The amp section is the same as the DAC's output stage in Audio-gd-s combos. You don't need much more than what i mentioned to add a headphone out. Maybe an additional gain control switching device to increase the gain when selecting the headphone out.

Transfos, the bigger, the more expensive. It's almost by the pound. Same for the chassis which is 2-3 times the weight for the r2r 2. Take a close look and compare all specs. Weight is specified as well as dimensions.

The altera dsp is not cheap. Quality connector are not cheap. All things mentioned justify twice the price at least.

As for ACSS, try a dac with it. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

The balanced statement refers to the output stage only. Balanced is not synonym to dual mono. Dual mono can be single-ended. Balanced means symmetric. A positive and a negative phase per channel all the way through, submitted to the same surrounding noise, implying ideally  a symmetric layout, such that the noise gets mostly rejected when subtracting  the two phases to derive the final signal.


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> The amp section is the same as the DAC's output stage in Audio-gd-s combos. You don't need much more than what i mentioned to add a headphone out. Maybe an additional gain control switching device to increase the gain when selecting the headphone out.
> 
> Transfos, the bigger, the more expensive. It's almost by the pound. Same for the chassis which is 2-3 times the weight for the r2r 2. Take a close look and compare all specs. Weight is specified as well as dimensions.
> 
> ...



So you are saying that the R2R-2 needs no Amp because it has an Amp built into it?
If you are saying that there is no actual Amp in the R2R-11 and that its just attaching a headphone output to the output stage of the DAC itself then that would be the worst design ever.
If the DAC has no output impedance because it already has an Amp output stage and lowered impedance, then it doesn't need an Amp at all because it already is one.
ACSS is only removing the buffer stage on input/output, this really doesn't do anything and every thread I read about this basically just has people fanboying over it while others who are objective saying that it makes no actual difference even when they tried it.
The altera DSP would add $100 to the price at most, and every other brand considers Balanced to be dual mono and not just a standard DAC with XLR connectors or a "Separate" analog stage. 
I mean hell a Topping A30 has 2 separate analog stages.... its not a balanced Amp. Its just a quality built one.

Also the 2 DAC's have the same exact connectors, the only difference is the R2R-2 has some XLR connectors. Like I said thats about $2, if he wants to charge $25 then its still a $23 profit for $2 worth of goods.

There is nothing in the R2R-2 which justifies a 2.5x price increase, just the same with the NFB-11.28 vs 1.28/1.38 or 28.28/28.38. 

In terms of his chassis, he has no fancy chassis the whole product looks like its made in a garage vs in an actual factory. There is no laser etching, every product is in the same standard box, etc.... I can understand the reason to make your stuff look DIY to save money, but considering hes charging a top tier price for DIY style products.....
It just rubs me the wrong way as to why he cannot actually explain the differences of his own products or why hes marketing such products as balanced when they are indeed NOT BALANCED despite fanboys suggesting that balanced is anything with different output stages... 

I was looking forward to some real answers based on the respect that some people have for Kingwa on this forum, but for him to tell me to come back to head-fi and ask others if they like his products instead of actually explain himself means that we won't be doing business and this is a brand I cannot ever recommend to anyone in good faith.


----------



## CJG888

The R2R-11 definitely has a separate amp board. As I mentioned before, low manufacturing volume on the higher-end products is likely to drive costs substantially.


----------



## FredA (Oct 17, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> So you are saying that the R2R-2 needs no Amp because it has an Amp built into it?
> If you are saying that there is no actual Amp in the R2R-11 and that its just attaching a headphone output to the output stage of the DAC itself then that would be the worst design ever.
> If the DAC has no output impedance because it already has an Amp output stage and lowered impedance, then it doesn't need an Amp at all because it already is one.
> ACSS is only removing the buffer stage on input/output, this really doesn't do anything and every thread I read about this basically just has people fanboying over it while others who are objective saying that it makes no actual difference even when they tried it.
> ...


On the combo's output stage, the impedance is around 1ohm. Low enough to drive headphones. Seems to work: the master-11 is a very well regarded and reviewed combo, for one.

It seems like you have just found out about audio-gd. Where were you, all these years while i was enjoying my thousand of sublime hours with a Master-7 and Master-1?

I became a huge fan by acquiring the products, not following some crowd. I took a risk, bought the NFB-8 dac, listened to it for a minute and made the call that it was so obviously better than the w4s dac1 it was to replace, while costing just 200$ more. I heard some really amazing dynamics effects i did not know were possible, especially microdynamic. I liked the nfb-8 so much i decided to try the flagship, the now famous M7.

 Again, the upgrade was obvious. I litterally fell in love with this dac. A music playing device like no other i had owned. More analog,  to sum it up. As good with old recording as with modern ones. A fabulous machine, which i just put for sale after acquiring yet an even more fabulous one, the r2r 7, one of the 3 best dacs under 10k.

The beauty of freedom is everyone is allowed to like or dislike a product, recommend or not recommend it. Your opinion and mine were stated for each and everyone to consider. And they will freely buy or not audio-gd gears. That's just wonderful.


----------



## FredA (Oct 17, 2017)

CJG888 said:


> The R2R-11 definitely has a separate amp board. As I mentioned before, low manufacturing volume on the higher-end products is likely to drive costs substantially.


Not sure. Do you see the wire going all the way from the hp jack to the pre out?

Same output impedance for both. That's a clever way to save money. But that means you can't run both at same time because of gain difference.


----------



## FredA

CJG888 said:


> The R2R-11 definitely has a separate amp board. As I mentioned before, low manufacturing volume on the higher-end products is likely to drive costs substantially.


I think Kingwa is letting these go at cost or very low profit so the word spreads out about how good these new r2r dacs are. What makes me say that is the dac boards are most certainly subcontracted and cost quite a bit of money because of the precision of the resistors, and the fact they have to be very consistently soldered. Plus the big cost of r&d.


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> I think Kingwa is letting these go at cost or very low profit so the word spreads out about how good these new r2r dacs are. What makes me say that is the dac boards are most certainly subcontracted and cost quite a bit of money because of the precision of the resistors, and the fact they have to be very consistently soldered. Plus the big cost of r&d.


I think actually its because of Soekris which has actually built their own models and basically seems to threaten everything about his business considering what hes offering at the prices hes offering them.


CJG888 said:


> The R2R-11 definitely has a separate amp board. As I mentioned before, low manufacturing volume on the higher-end products is likely to drive costs substantially.



Yes lower volume can drive up costs, but considering what he sells he could definitely go over MOQ to get nice volume discounts just as he has so many PCM1704UK's despite them being discontinued for a while now.



FredA said:


> On the combo's output stage, the impedance is around 1ohm. Low enough to drive headphones. Seems to work: the master-11 is a very well regarded and reviewed combo, for one.
> 
> It seems like you have just found out about audio-gd. Where were you, all these years while i was enjoying my thousand of sublime hours with a Master-7 and Master-1?
> 
> ...



You are right that everyone can have their opinion.
How you feel about your first Audio-GD I feel about my Topping DX7 because the resolution was actually much better even though I initially thought it wasn't worth it at all when I took it out of the box.

The problem with the world of audio is that too many brands are selling devices without any real discernible differences for tons of money simply because audiophiles are a group of people who often are very technically UN-savvy and willing to spend tons of disposable income on smoke and mirrors. 

Maybe the R2R-2 really is so much more complex that it takes him all this extra time in hours to build it where the price has to be higher (doubtful) but if that is the case then he just cannot compete with Soekris and at this point it looks like I'll be ordering one of those new DAC's.


----------



## FredA (Oct 18, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> I think actually its because of Soekris which has actually built their own models and basically seems to threaten everything about his business considering what hes offering at the prices hes offering them.
> 
> 
> Maybe the R2R-2 really is so much more complex that it takes him all this extra time in hours to build it where the price has to be higher (doubtful) but if that is the case then he just cannot compete with Soekris and at this point it looks like I'll be ordering one of those new DAC's.



Glad you have found a component you feel paasionate about in the Topping, i am sure it's worth its money.

Kingwa outsources the production of all his pcbs, most likely, same for Soekris. The thing is the surface mount components are soldered by a robot, so it's done also by a supplier. Both guys, Soren and Kingwa are the designers and intellectual  owners of their respective boards.

If Kingwa was to produce a combo from the r2r 2, which he might do as some point,  it would  be costly because he would have to get all that is required to produce a new chassis format just for it. Even then, it would cost less that the top Soekris (dac1541) and would be competitive with it from what i could gather as info. The Dac1541 sells for 1500$ now. It's far from cheap. One should consider buying a Master-11 at that point (500$ more besides shipping) and other options, unless wanting a custom ladder dac combo absolutely, in which case Soekris has the only offering at that price point. For now.


----------



## kvik

There’s the Metrum Amethyst as well, at €1070 excl VAT a little cheaper than DAC1541, and a lot more expensive than R2R 11.


----------



## Filmguerilla

Hi guys, just wondering. Anyone here tried NFB11.28 or R2R.11 using Android TV as a source? Thanks!


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> Glad you have found a component you feel paasionate about in the Topping, i am sure it's worth its money.
> 
> Kingwa outsources the production of all his pcbs, most likely, same for Soekris. The thing is the surface mount components are soldered by a robot, so it's done also by a supplier. Both guys, Soren and Kingwa are the designers and intellectual  owners of their respective boards.
> 
> If Kingwa was to produce a combo from the r2r 2, which he might do as some point,  it would  be costly because he would have to get all that is required to produce a new chassis format just for it. Even then, it would cost less that the top Soekris (dac1541) and would be competitive with it from what i could gather as info. The Dac1541 sells for 1500$ now. It's far from cheap. One should consider buying a Master-11 at that point (500$ more besides shipping) and other options, unless wanting a custom ladder dac combo absolutely, in which case Soekris has the only offering at that price point. For now.



The r2r-2 competes with the 1321 dac which is about half the price. 
The 1541 is a custom R2R Ladder / Sign Magnitude design like the R2R-7 but with a amp included. 
That really isn't like the older PCM1704UK designs. 
Kingwa himself said that the new ladder system is better than the PCM1704UK designs and I believe it.


----------



## kvik (Oct 18, 2017)

DAC1321 is currently €500/$590 shipped to my location (Norway), R2R 2 is $750 shipped, both excl VAT. That’s not half the price for 1321 vs R2R 2.

I think it’s fair to say, due to difference in weight and size, that the two have different user scenarios, the smaller is for office/bedside use, the larger for home/living room use. 

Wthout you having listened to either, I don’t think you are in a position to cast judgement on whether the R2R 2 is overpriced compared to 1321.


----------



## Jimster480

kvik said:


> DAC1321 is currently €500/$590 shipped to my location (Norway), R2R 2 is $750 shipped, both excl VAT. That’s not half the price for 1321 vs R2R 2.


Its $735 + $55 shipping. 

That is $790, plus I'm sure that he will have some other paypal fee or something....
The Soekris is $615 shipped.
So you are right its not half the price.
But then again they have a DAC 1101 which just has USB but has basically the same sound specs for 363 Eur shipped. 

I'm pretty sure I will order the Soekris today, since its on a promo price right now.


----------



## kvik

If you don't have the need for the headphone out (1101), I would wait for the 1321 to become available in a week or two (according to website). It's only €100 more, and I strongly suspect the new range (1321-1421-1541) to be considerably better than 1101.


----------



## Jimster480

kvik said:


> If you don't have the need for the headphone out (1101), I would wait for the 1321 to become available in a week or two (according to website). It's only €100 more, and I strongly suspect the new range (1321-1421-1541) to be considerably better than 1101.


I'm pre-ordering the 1321.


----------



## kvik

It will be interesting to read you impressions, when you have it.


----------



## Jimster480

kvik said:


> It will be interesting to read you impressions, when you have it.


I should have it in some weeks hopefully!

Looking forward to seeing what these Sign-Magnitude (R2R) Dac's are about, and if there really is any difference vs a well implemented Delta-Sigma system.


----------



## BWV656

Jimster480 said:


> I should have it in some weeks hopefully!
> 
> Looking forward to seeing what these Sign-Magnitude (R2R) Dac's are about, and if there really is any difference vs a well implemented Delta-Sigma system.



I couldn't find info on their website, is 1321 a NOS dac?


----------



## Jimster480

BWV656 said:


> I couldn't find info on their website, is 1321 a NOS dac?


Its not NOS, its 16x OS I believe.


----------



## kvik

There is not a lot on 1321 yet, you could check the 1541 manual (link on soekris.dk), the general parts probably apply to 1321 as well. Same goes for googling, go with 1541 for technical info and general impressions, at least until 1321 starts shipping.

As jimster says, no NOS, only 4 selectable digital filters (see manual). Søren (Soekris) said this following when asked about NOS:

“There is no non oversampling mode, I don't like the large mirrored signal you get above nyquist. But there is a soft filter setting which are pretty good.... You can change the filters to it will become non oversampling….”

Anyway, this probably belongs in the Soekris thread, not here.


----------



## CJG888

For what it’s worth, the R2R-11 is NOS...


----------



## BWV656

CJG888 said:


> For what it’s worth, the R2R-11 is NOS...



If you read my previous posts, you can tell I really love the sound of R2R-11. And to be honest, I have no idea the tech behind NOS and R2R but this combo works incredibly well for me. All my previous DACs are based on Sabre and AKM chips. And R2R-11 sound so different, in a good way. 

I mean right now I am listening to Telemann's 12 Fantasia for solo violin (Luigi de Filippi version) and I've never heard violin sound so breathtaking. I felt the same listening to St John Passion this morning. With R2R-11 I am discovering all my music like I've never heard before. 

Prior to getting R2R-11, I bought 3 audiophile players (A+, HQP, BitP, ) cause I was always unhappy with the sound, hoping to improve the sound. But unfortunately, I've never found the perfect sound for my taste. And all of that changed with R2R-11. I no longer use any of these audiophile players. Absolutely love the sound straight out of iTunes. 

So I don't know much about the tech behind NOS & R2R but, for my taste, this combo works incredibly well.


----------



## Jimster480

BWV656 said:


> If you read my previous posts, you can tell I really love the sound of R2R-11. And to be honest, I have no idea the tech behind NOS and R2R but this combo works incredibly well for me. All my previous DACs are based on Sabre and AKM chips. And R2R-11 sound so different, in a good way.
> 
> I mean right now I am listening to Telemann's 12 Fantasia for solo violin (Luigi de Filippi version) and I've never heard violin sound so breathtaking. I felt the same listening to St John Passion this morning. With R2R-11 I am discovering all my music like I've never heard before.
> 
> ...



Kingwa himself said that the NOS design has less detail vs a Sabre design. So it all depends on who made your DAC 
This is why many other high end R2R DAC's don't use NOS designs either.


----------



## BWV656

Jimster480 said:


> Kingwa himself said that the NOS design has less detail vs a Sabre design. So it all depends on who made your DAC
> This is why many other high end R2R DAC's don't use NOS designs either.



I am obsessed with details and I don't feel like I am missing anything with R2R-11. That's why I love it. Definitely smooth but doesn't lack any detail compared to other detail monsters like my oppo paired with Genelec 8330, Yamaha MSP7, SRH940. Anyway, when you get a chance try it, you may like it.


----------



## Jimster480

Those are all speakers though, so the sound is already different


----------



## bunkbail

Now that my R2R-11 is finally done burning-in (>120 hrs), at least to my ears the sound is now opening up. Compared to a Chord Mojo, this dacamp is definitely has a lot less details (with Mojo I can hear lots of things) but sounds more musical and resolving, warmer and smoother in the low and top end. I also noticed that the background is not so black, feels like the sound is colored a little bit, even with a iPurifier2 attached to it. Chord Mojo has a completely black background when using a iPurifier2 with it. Mojo has the "in your face" kind of sound while the R2R-11 is more surround-like, for lack of vocabulary. Mojo beats this dacamp in terms of sound separation, I sometimes cannot figure out where the sound comes from with the R2R-11. It is apparent when playing music with lots of stuffs going on in the background, especially with Rock. I play competitive games a lot (CS:GO) and uses Dolby Atmos spatial sound effects while gaming, and with the R2R-11 I can't pinpoint the direction of the sound as accurate as when I'm using the Mojo. As it stands I definitely like the Mojo more solely due to the details and separation it produces which suits me more for my needs. But make no mistake the R2R-11 is no slouch, for classical and live performances the sound it produces is simply breathtaking.


----------



## Jimster480

bunkbail said:


> Now that my R2R-11 is finally done burning-in (>120 hrs), at least to my ears the sound is now opening up. Compared to a Chord Mojo, this dacamp is definitely has a lot less details (with Mojo I can hear lots of things) but sounds more musical and resolving, warmer and smoother in the low and top end. I also noticed that the background is not so black, feels like the sound is colored a little bit, even with a iPurifier2 attached to it. Chord Mojo has a completely black background when using a iPurifier2 with it. Mojo has the "in your face" kind of sound while the R2R-11 is more surround-like, for lack of vocabulary. Mojo beats this dacamp in terms of sound separation, I sometimes cannot figure out where the sound comes from with the R2R-11. It is apparent when playing music with lots of stuffs going on in the background, especially with Rock. I play competitive games a lot (CS:GO) and uses Dolby Atmos spatial sound effects while gaming, and with the R2R-11 I can't pinpoint the direction of the sound as accurate as when I'm using the Mojo. As it stands I definitely like the Mojo more solely due to the details and separation it produces which suits me more for my needs. But make no mistake the R2R-11 is no slouch, for classical and live performances the sound it produces is simply breathtaking.


I also use my DAC/Amps for gaming!


----------



## conquerator2

It really depends on the individual. I found the R2R11 superior to Mojo in most aspects. Clearly YMMV


----------



## kvik

I wonder if gaming a lot sets you up with a certain (sound) preference/expectation when it then comes to just listening to music, like a pre-conditoning. Haven’t got a clue what the needs are soundwise in gaming (which was never my thing), but I imagine they must be different to general music listening. Like you need to pinpoint where this or that sound is coming from, or need to determine if a sound indicates a thread or not.

I did a puzzling (to me at least) experiment recently. In order to understand another persons sound preference I applied his favourite EQ-settings to my music. The resulting sound was very foreign to me, and definitely not a sound signature that I would pursue for myself. I made me wonder, though, how much of what we like is aquired taste, and how much is inherent natural inclination.

I have owned the Mojo, and prefer my Tento Multi-bit DAC for its added dimensionality - hearing how hard the piano key is struck (Tento), not just that it’s been struck (Mojo). I mainly listen to classical music (95%), it might well be that this influences my preference, I don’t know.

None of the above is directly related to R2R 11, but still goes to show that we might not all prefer the same sound signature, and that’s ok, because in the end it has to be about musical enjoyment, the rest is just means to an end.


----------



## conquerator2 (Oct 19, 2017)

Gaming in general benefits from a slightly V shaped signature, as that one enhances pinpoint detail (treble) and immersion (bass). Music on the other hand requires a solid midrange as most instruments reside there.
This also explains why a headphone like the Pro 900, a terribly V shaped headphone, was very good for gaming while failed in terms of music listening (in my experience).
An all-round well performing headphone should do very well with both, however if you're looking for ultimate accuracy and immersion, a colored headphone might provide more of that.
In my experience, technologies like Dolby Atmos and SBX Surround work very well with most headphones, though the benefit might be more apparent with an already precolored headphone/rig/what-have-you


----------



## ChaiTeac

I made an account to post in this thread. There aren't many reviews of the r2r 11 around and this thread was very helpful, I bought one because of it! 

My r2r 11 arrived today having ordered it from MagnaHiFi in the Netherlands. I thought since this thread was so useful to me, I would post my thoughts here once I've had a decent listen and I'll compare it to my old DAC amp, the Oppo HA-2se, which uses the Sabre ES9028-Q2M, a lower power version of the chip used in the NFB 11.28 I believe - or at least comparable. 

I was expecting something clearly vintage sounding but it doesn't sound _drastically_ different to the Oppo that I'm used to. It does however make my Oppo seem detailed but relatively two dimensional. That's not to say the r2r 11 is not detailed at all, something which worried me slightly as someone here was comparing the r2r 11 to the Mojo and said that the r2r 11 had noticeably less detail than the Mojo. I'm aware that the Mojo is a better unit than the HA-2se but I don't feel like I'm trading details for musicality with the r2r 11. The r2r 11 has a 3D nature to its sound which - based on an hour of listening thus far - is subtle and nicely catches me off guard. I'm noticing things about my music that I hadn't before so that's the tell-tale sign of a good audio purchase isn't it?

I haven't done A/B testing between the two, I'll give the r2r 11 some time to 'burn in' and then I'll try a proper comparison in a later post. 

And I don't know if it's still a talking point in this thread but I do get the 'popping' sound on WASAPI (event), ASIO and DS through the USB-2 out on my laptop.


----------



## JaMo

Hi ChaiTeac,

Good choice buying the R2R11... It is a very competent and unbelievable good sounding device, despite its size.. 

but ...Please keep in mind that it needs between 350 and 400 h of burn in before it behaves as it should. 

/Jan


----------



## ChaiTeac

JaMo said:


> Hi ChaiTeac,
> 
> Good choice buying the R2R11... It is a very competent and unbelievable good sounding device, despite its size..
> 
> ...


As I read in your post on the first page! And like I say, I will leave it time to burn in before saying anything about it that's even vaguely thought out. I was merely giving some initial thoughts.

Although, I'd like to ask, how much change did you see in the r2r 11 from first listening to it and then after it burnt in? It sounds great already, I'm wondering how much better it will get!


----------



## JaMo

The main differences I have found, are from a infinite, a rather "two-dimension" flat and pretty boring presentation to a three-dimension one...and the complete soundimage matures more with deeper bass and an all over more even and true soundpicture.

By the way.. I use it now in my main speaker setup to compare it to bigger gears. I have always liked the dry engish speaker sound so I use Quad ESL63's with Gradient SW63's and their HiEnd filter XO @ 110Hz. Poweramps are Audio-gd's Master 3 for mid and treble and Master 2's for basses. For the moment and since a while, I use a NFB-28.38 as pre. I compare NFB-28.38 (ES9038Pro)/ Master7Singularity (w opa2140's as DC-servo's) and this little R2R-11 connected single ended..... and guess what.... This litte car-radio-sized R2R-11 dac/amp can absolutely compete with the other two bigger brothers. Of corse it comes out short but not with much. Annoyingly small difference, really.

In fact I could live a good music life with just the R2R-11 with decent amping and matching speakers. 

I am sure You will surprised by it. Let it play and listen now and then.... and after a couple of weeks You will wonder "How the H...l can it sound this good?!!! 

Enjoy.

/Jan


----------



## capetownwatches

JaMo said:


> Hi ChaiTeac,
> 
> Good choice buying the R2R11... It is a very competent and unbelievable good sounding device, despite its size..
> 
> ...



Hey Jan! I have a NFB-11 delivered in April this year (just missed the NFB11.28) and I read your comments regarding burn in with interest.
Does the 350 - 400 hour estimate also apply to the NFB-11? Considering also that these gears are supposedly burned in for 100 hours before delivery.

At 2 hours use per day, every day (very rough estimate) that's 25 weeks or 6 months before it's properly burned in.
I would say that I must be nearly there, and can't say I have heard any discernible difference in sound quality or presentation.

Let me qualify that by saying that I was able to enjoy the unit more as time passed, as my ears got used to it's sound.
And how it allowed me to hear more in my music as I became accustomed to the level of detail it could deliver.

But I cannot say this was in any way due to the unit itself sounding any different.
Of course, over a period of 6 months gradual changes can be impossible to pick up.

Whatever the case may be, this little amp/dac never ceases to please.
I often use it as a DAC only into my Woo WA3 and the synergy is excellent to my ears.
In fact, it might be a better DAC than headphone amp, and it's a terrific headphone amp!


----------



## JaMo (Oct 25, 2017)

Hi capetownwatches,

No, the NFB-11 needed approx 200-250 h in total to mature and to sound its best.

The fact that many owners of hi grade audio equipment and never really know what their gear really can is a pity. A skilled audio engineer designing knows this for sure. The components of choice will have to mature (burn in) before they perform as planned. You can call it "a body of knowledge" this experienced and known change of components behavior before and after the needed burn in. So what I am trying to say is that when You choose components for let say an amplifier, You design a "after burnin- state of those components. A new produced poweramp often sounds a bit edgy and a bit forced and rushy... It calmes down during the burn in. During this time You will have to adjust biases and offsets to make it work as intended. This is what  Kingwa's staff is trimming during the 100 or 200 h (depended of gear) preburn at Audio-gd before the gears are sent out to us. (In dac's the xo has to burnin to stabilise.Very important, Usually approx 2 weeks ~350h)

I think You are part true regarding Your gradual increasing pleasure with the sound. 2h a day will not do much good. 22 h cold state. Burn in is power on longer period of time

I always leave the gear on playing 24/7 for the whole burnin in period. It is the only way I can spot when the gear "reborns" and sounds as intended.

/Jan


----------



## capetownwatches

JaMo said:


> Hi capetownwatches,
> 
> No, the NFB-11 needed approx 200-250 h in total to mature and to sound its best.
> 
> ...


I agree absolutely - many owners never get to fully appreciate what their gear can do.

I did leave the unit powered on 24/7 for about a week after I first got it, but since then I do not leave it powered up all the time.
I do notice that it does sound better after about 30 min playing.

Would you recommend that I can leave the unit powered on for long periods? 
Such as maybe a weekend (3 days)?
That way it is always ready to sound optimum!

I would guess that this could be detrimental to the long term reliability of the unit, such as certain parts wearing out more quickly?


----------



## JaMo

I see it like this:

1. To keep the gear power on during the whole needed burn period is an investment in sound quality! 
2. After the burn in period is complete (Your or mine personal opinion) it is a good idea to power it on when You are about to take the dog for a walk (30 min). And as You have spotted, it sounds better after approx 30 min warm up. After listening, power it off. This will give You the best for a long time.

I have designed and built plenty of gear through the years and have as a princip to build with oversized components just to have the choice to leave the gear powered on and without risk to aging or burning them up prematurely.


----------



## VintageFlanker

JaMo said:


> Hi capetownwatches,
> 
> No, the NFB-11 needed approx 200-250 h in total to mature and to sound its best.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but I beg to differ.

If I believe in burn in regarding headphones or speakers. I never noticed some kind of improvement with electronics components but placebo...

People can claim this or this sounds better after X period of burn in... But if it isn't measurable...

http://archimago.blogspot.fr/2014/03/measurements-does-break-in-happen-for.html?m=1


----------



## JaMo

Yes, Here we go again... -Is there a God? : )

and Yes, You are completely free to disqualify the subject. Live by Your conviction and stay happy.

Enjoy


----------



## VintageFlanker (Nov 11, 2017)

JaMo said:


> Is there a God? : )



Yep. Measurements.


----------



## Jimster480

Reading all the replies here somewhat makes me laugh. 
The NOS design has less details vs a over sampling design and is worse than a sabre layout. 
Additionally electronic burn in does relatively nothing in 99% of cases. 
Kingwa does burn in before sending the devices just to quell all myths and you guys still cling to 200+ hours (LOL). 
Literally all of you posting this stuff have no idea how electronics work and how everything you are talking about is scientific myth. 
ChaiTeac initial impression of "almost no different" is the only valid impression. Further listening in trying to justify the purchase will condition your mind to believe things which are not true. 

The differences are typically going to be in the analog stage with slightly different frequency response / impedance.


----------



## capetownwatches

Jimster480 said:


> Reading all the replies here somewhat makes me laugh.
> The NOS design has less details vs a over sampling design and is worse than a sabre layout.
> Additionally electronic burn in does relatively nothing in 99% of cases.
> Kingwa does burn in before sending the devices just to quell all myths and you guys still cling to 200+ hours (LOL).
> ...



Hey Jimster - maybe you don't realize it but the tone of your post is somewhat deprecatory and frankly comes off as rude.
Or maybe that was your intention - either way, even though I agree with some of what you say (see my own post), you should dial back the prescriptive language a bit.

I  and many others here have a very good idea of, and significant experience in "how electronics work".
Simply because someone holds a view that is different to your own does not give you licence to demean that view.

You are welcome to your own (strongly held) opinions, but preferably share them in an amicable and non-confrontational manner.
That way we might all learn something.


----------



## Jimster480

capetownwatches said:


> Hey Jimster - maybe you don't realize it but the tone of your post is somewhat deprecatory and frankly comes off as rude.
> Or maybe that was your intention - either way, even though I agree with some of what you say (see my own post), you should dial back the prescriptive language a bit.
> 
> I  and many others here have a very good idea of, and significant experience in "how electronics work".
> ...


You are right, the post shouldn't be so confrontational.
I do want people to learn and understand, its what we are all here for.
There are many people on this forum though who choose myth over reality and cling to their myths with a death grip, refusing to see any other points.


----------



## JimJames

Just saw the Z review of the r2r in which he says that it might accentuate the noise floor. Can anybody say anything on the matter? Noise floor can be a real big problem for me in some recordings (acoustic orchestrations by Glenn Gould might be the finest example of how can a masterpiece be ruined by it)


----------



## JaMo

@JimJames: -Not to worry. The R2R-11 is a solid performer. You will love its presentation of Glenn Goulds piano without any disturbing noise.
/Jan


----------



## conquerator2

JimJames said:


> Just saw the Z review of the r2r in which he says that it might accentuate the noise floor. Can anybody say anything on the matter? Noise floor can be a real big problem for me in some recordings (acoustic orchestrations by Glenn Gould might be the finest example of how can a masterpiece be ruined by it)


I don't observe any noise floor. 100dB should still be well beyond audible.


----------



## JaMo

.


----------



## JimJames

Ah good news then, thanks a lot guys!


----------



## Jimster480

JimJames said:


> Just saw the Z review of the r2r in which he says that it might accentuate the noise floor. Can anybody say anything on the matter? Noise floor can be a real big problem for me in some recordings (acoustic orchestrations by Glenn Gould might be the finest example of how can a masterpiece be ruined by it)



Noise floor attenuation is a side affect of Non-oversampling (NOS). 
I believe I already linked the scientific paper here which explains it.


----------



## Renato Fury

Is there any way to remove this pop ? I was watching the analysis of Zeos and I found this sound very irritating, I prefer R2R 11 for its musicality but if I do not have a way to remove them then I will have to be content with the analytical sound of NFB 11.28.


----------



## Jimster480

Renato Fury said:


> Is there any way to remove this pop ? I was watching the analysis of Zeos and I found this sound very irritating, I prefer R2R 11 for its musicality but if I do not have a way to remove them then I will have to be content with the analytical sound of NFB 11.28.


Buy a SMSL xUSB and run the DAC from Coaxial instead.


----------



## Renato Fury

Jimster480 said:


> Buy a SMSL xUSB and run the DAC from Coaxial instead.


But I would like to connect the Coaxial on tv, is there another option ? If it makes any difference my USB ports are 2.0.


----------



## Jimster480

Renato Fury said:


> But I would like to connect the Coaxial on tv, is there another option ? If it makes any difference my USB ports are 2.0.


You can also use optical or I2S via the xUSB


----------



## Filmguerilla

Hi guys, haha still deciding if i should go and get the R2R.11. I'm bothered with that popping/clicking sound from Z review. Should i be bothered if my only files are 24/96/192 Flac's. No DSD files? Since the popping sounds on every tracks are from USB i suppose? 

Last question, anyone have tried testing R2R11 or 11.28 vs. Jotunheim? Thanks again!


----------



## Jimster480

Filmguerilla said:


> Hi guys, haha still deciding if i should go and get the R2R.11. I'm bothered with that popping/clicking sound from Z review. Should i be bothered if my only files are 24/96/192 Flac's. No DSD files? Since the popping sounds on every tracks are from USB i suppose?
> 
> Last question, anyone have tried testing R2R11 or 11.28 vs. Jotunheim? Thanks again!


Get a Topping DX7 honestly, NOS DAC's attenuate noise floor so it won't compare to a dual mono setup like the DX7. 

Also this popping in the USB interface is pretty bad on his part, basically increasing the price by a minimum of $55 (for a SMSL xUSB) in order to run int properly unless you have a computer with a coax output already.
Even Optical outputs are more rare these days on computers.


----------



## Filmguerilla

I will heck the Topping DX7. Thanks! How about Jotunhem? Would you recommend it? Although it's 500usd + shipping/taxes.. Atleast the upgrade path is much easier because of the balanced output..



Jimster480 said:


> Get a Topping DX7 honestly, NOS DAC's attenuate noise floor so it won't compare to a dual mono setup like the DX7.
> 
> Also this popping in the USB interface is pretty bad on his part, basically increasing the price by a minimum of $55 (for a SMSL xUSB) in order to run int properly unless you have a computer with a coax output already.
> Even Optical outputs are more rare these days on computers.


----------



## Jimster480

Filmguerilla said:


> I will heck the Topping DX7. Thanks! How about Jotunhem? Would you recommend it? Although it's 500usd + shipping/taxes.. Atleast the upgrade path is much easier because of the balanced output..



The DX7 is also balanced output, for headphones and also supports external balanced amps and has AES input too if you have studio gear.


----------



## Renato Fury

Filmguerilla said:


> Hi guys, haha still deciding if i should go and get the R2R.11. I'm bothered with that popping/clicking sound from Z review. Should i be bothered if my only files are 24/96/192 Flac's. No DSD files? Since the popping sounds on every tracks are from USB i suppose?
> 
> Last question, anyone have tried testing R2R11 or 11.28 vs. Jotunheim? Thanks again!


I would also like to buy the R2R 11 but this popping is what is stopping me, I sent an email to the company and they told me that this noise is low but this is unacceptable for me, but in compensation the neutrality of the NFB 11.28 worries me because the last thing I want is a tiring and tiring sound.


----------



## Jimster480

Renato Fury said:


> I would also like to buy the R2R 11 but this popping is what is stopping me, I sent an email to the company and they told me that this noise is low but this is unacceptable for me, but in compensation the neutrality of the NFB 11.28 worries me because the last thing I want is a tiring and tiring sound.



When I listened to it at the meet I wouldn't say it's so low noise.


----------



## Renato Fury

Jimster480 said:


> When I listened to it at the meet I wouldn't say it's so low noise.


Are you sure that using coaxial or optical completely removes pop? @BWV656 said he can hear you even on these connections.


----------



## Jimster480

Renato Fury said:


> Are you sure that using coaxial or optical completely removes pop? @BWV656 said he can hear you even on these connections.


I'm not going to say one way or the other because I wasn't able to test it at the meet. 
The owner of the unit told me Kingwa told him to use optical / coax to remove it.


----------



## CJG888

I am experiencing a slight pop via coaxial.


----------



## Jimster480

CJG888 said:


> I am experiencing a slight pop via coaxial.


What is outputting the coax for you? do you have an internal sound card with coax?


----------



## CJG888

A dedicated digital transport (Shinrico D3S).


----------



## CJG888




----------



## Filmguerilla

Guys, just want to make sure.. The click/pops on R2R.11 appears after every song right? I read somewhere it because of changing sample rate? So, if i listen to a full album with the same sample rate etc would that be mean i won't be hearing any pops on each songs? Just want to confirm if i read or understand this poppring problem with this unit.. Or else, i should stretch my funds to Jotunheim instead.


----------



## CJG888

It only occurs when you change sample rate.


----------



## Renato Fury

Has anyone tried the optical input ? I wonder if La also has this popping.


----------



## Renato Fury (Oct 31, 2017)

This pop also occurs with video files, spotify, netflix, youtube and other digital platforms or only occurs with audio files?


----------



## Filmguerilla

Oh so i'm good i think. Maybe the pops can be minimize by setting up your player to have fixed output? Yes? Sorry, i'm not too good with technicalities. Hehehe I just want to get more from the budget that i have for Dac/Amp combo..



CJG888 said:


> It only occurs when you change sample rate.


----------



## Jimster480

CJG888 said:


> A dedicated digital transport (Shinrico D3S).


That probably won't be the problem then. Have you used it on other devices? 


Filmguerilla said:


> Oh so i'm good i think. Maybe the pops can be minimize by setting up your player to have fixed output? Yes? Sorry, i'm not too good with technicalities. Hehehe I just want to get more from the budget that i have for Dac/Amp combo..



What is your budget? I'd say for 400$ the Topping DX7 is a much better value vs the R2R-11 or the NFB-11 since it's actually dual mono full balanced, has a ton of extra features and if looks matter at all then.... It looks like a $1k+ product (and sounds like one too).


----------



## JaMo (Nov 1, 2017)

Hello everybody,

-Can You please stop this nonesence discussion. Audio-gd's R2R-11 is one of the best values You can get on the market. The small pops You get between tracks of different samplingrates is a very cheap tradeoff for its stunning perfomance. I have no problems with this what so ever.
I use PiCoreplayer (3.22) via USB (Amanero) and the R2R-11 has no disturbances at all. The only annoyance I can spot is because its fantastic performance.... It takes off some of the motivation to get higher and more expensive gears... -Delicate matter ..right?!

-So can You all please stop this boost of no problems to somthing that can be taken for truth and misleading for newcomers in this forum. In the bigger picture...It is very rude to the administators of this forum-platform and, as said earlier the forumvisitors.

@Jimster480: -Please slow down a notch or two. Let people find out for them selves what their preferences are and what's making them happy. You seem to have it all "too clear" for you and have the urge to push your recommendations too hard on others. I can also spot an a drive to miscredit Audio-gd. Don't know why but still, I see it.

To wrap it up. The R2R-11 is one of the best buys You can get for Your money. A true R2R-ladder device that plays all kinds of high quality materials (incl. Native DSD and DXD) and sounds stunning.
and...

I hope You all will help out to discuss in a positive tone, this to show respect for the forums admins, visitors and not least, the truth.

Best regards

/Jan


----------



## Jimster480

JaMo said:


> Hello everybody,
> 
> -Can You please stop this nonesence discussion. Audio-gd's R2R-11 is one of the best values You can get on the market. The small pops You get between tracks of different samplingrates is a very cheap tradeoff for its stunning perfomance. I have no problems with this what so ever.
> I use PiCoreplayer (3.22) via USB (Amanero) and the R2R-11 has no disturbances at all. The only annoyance I can spot is because its fantastic performance.... It takes off some of the motivation to get higher and more expensive gears... -Delicate matter ..right?!
> ...


So you mean to come with your own subjective and misleading opinions is fine then correct? Just because it supports Audio-GD products and you happen to like them, right?
Because NOS simply just has less detail and a higher noise-floor vs oversampling devices (which is why Kingwa's own higher end devices have oversampling options by default and you have to manually set them to NOS mode).
Kingwa himself explained that NOS has less detail, and in every scientific paper it clearly explains why this is the case and why oversampling was originally introduced. 
Third of all, I would say that just because your claim that the R2R-11 is a great value doesn't make it so. There is alot of competition in this $400 price segment, from things like the SMSL M9, Topping DX7, Schiit Jotenhiem and even TEAC AL-101DA, xDoo TA-10... NuForce has a few offerings, JDS Labs has their Element...
I mean just because YOU LIKE a NOS DAC (which objectively has less resolving ability and a higher noise floor than other offerings) you are declaring it the winner and attacking me for suggesting other products to people who are looking around at their options?

I'm sorry but if you compare my prior suggestion (Topping DX7) and the R2R-11, the R2R-11 has literally nothing to offer over the DX7 besides being a ladder DAC (if that is even considered a positive, because many Ladder Dac's contain ultrasonic noise especially in a NOS design which can be bad for your hearing if it causes other modulation further in the chain) and instead has many fewer features, no remote, no options and no balanced outputs and no AES input and cannot act as a transport device (DX7 has Coax Output)


----------



## JaMo (Nov 1, 2017)

@Jimster480:

I am not offending anybody or forcing "my truths" on them. But Yes, I give my opinions based on my preferences. Everybody are of course, free to have their own. I have listened to many dac's through the years and I like maný of them.
A short story...
A fighter pilot in an instable jet has to lean on the algorithms in steering system that compensates for the instability and adds his/her'sinputs. The Piot him/herself usually don't give a sh-t about how the mathematic algorithms running in the steering systems computer looks like, as long as the plane behaves as expected.....
I see it similar, regarding soundreproduction. I am of course  interested in their technonlogies but it comes second. First is the performance they give me. Usually delta sigma dacs are detailed but the cost me brain activity (fatigue over time).... R2R-dacs give me all the details and this without the brain-cost. Measurevise R2R-dacs are less good than Delta Sigmas but for me, R2R is more true.
There are of course scientific explanations why, but for me it's ok to not investigate this too hard. I have the gears to give me pleasure in music library. Well ESS90XX-dac seems to have a bunch of 5-bit dacs involved in its processing....R2R is more of a "one trick pony".
But hey, doesn't matter to me as long as my musiclistening makes me happy.

/Jan


----------



## Jimster480

JaMo said:


> @Jimster480:
> 
> I am not offending anybody or forcing "my truths" on them. But Yes, I give my opinions based on my preferences. Everybody are of course, free to have their own. I have listened to many dac's though the years and I like maný of them.
> A short story...
> ...


As long as you enjoy your music the way you like it that is perfectly fine.
But at the same time DS DAC's today are all "multibit" and do many passes to reconstruct the waveform the same as an R2R DAC would which these days are using tons of TFT's (Thin film transistors) to process the audio rather than a "series step ladder" like oldschool "R2R/Ladder" DAC's. So the modern implementation isn't even like that of the older days.
If you are fatigued by microdetails then it is in your own mind lol


----------



## FredA

It is rather unusual to see one one the main animators of a thread to post in it to discredit a product. The only previous occurence i noticed was with the Audio-gd Singularity 19. And it was not at all subtle. So i agree with JaMo, especially because i want to get information on these audio-gd gears. I admit the dx7 looks nice, i checked its dedicated thread last night. But I guess the dx7 thread is just not as popular.

The r2r 11 is unique in that it's the cheapest custom ladder dac offering on the market. And it's most likely better than it's nearest competors, the entry-level soekris and Denafrips. It adds a very good amp as a bonus. So i guess it's a disturbing product.


----------



## conquerator2 (Nov 1, 2017)

The R2R11 doesn't smear over details. In fact, I'd say it can reveal as much detail as any other device but in a natural and smooth manner, without shoving it up people's ears. The fact that Kingwa says it reveals less details than his DS design I'll respectfully disagree with; to my ears it is simply not true,
If you can point me to a product that:
- Uses a custom R2R solution instead of a modern DS design that costs a few bucks and is easy to just stick inside and be done with
- Couples that with a 3W powerful, discrete amplifier with gain settings
- Has a TOTL USB board included in the asking price and offers coaxial and optical as well
- Costs under 399$ and offers 10 years repair guarantee
I'll be happy to reconsider my standpoint. One bad experience shouldn't sour you against a company for life (if I let that be I would not have gambled on the R2R11). That is just my opinion though. Have a great day everyone and I hope to see this thread return to normal.


----------



## bunkbail

I use 44.1kHz sample rate 24/7, I never experienced this pop sound that everyone is talking about.


----------



## Renato Fury

Girls please stop fighting and answer my question, does this annoying popping also occur on digital platforms like youtube, netflix, spotify and etc ?


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> I use 44.1kHz sample rate 24/7, I never experienced this pop sound that everyone is talking about.


Do you use USB, Coaxial or Optical ?


----------



## CJG888

If you only use one sample rate, you shouldn’t hear a pop...


----------



## Renato Fury

CJG888 said:


> If you only use one sample rate, you shouldn’t hear a pop...


But no one uses only a sampling rate, but pop also occurs on digital platforms... That's the third time I've asked that.


----------



## bunkbail

Renato Fury said:


> Do you use USB, Coaxial or Optical ?



USB. And don't ask me to use other sample rates, because I absolutely have no interest on doing that.


----------



## bunkbail

Renato Fury said:


> Girls please stop fighting and answer my question, does this annoying popping also occur on digital platforms like youtube, netflix, spotify and etc ?



I use Spotify, Youtube and Netflix on hourly basis, got literally 0 pop.


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> USB. And don't ask me to use other sample rates, because I absolutely have no interest on doing that.


Ask you to use other sampling rates ? And what would I get out of it ?


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> It is rather unusual to see one one the main animators of a thread to post in it to discredit a product. The only previous occurence i noticed was with the Audio-gd Singularity 19. And it was not at all subtle. So i agree with JaMo, especially because i want to get information on these audio-gd gears. I admit the dx7 looks nice, i checked its dedicated thread last night. But I guess the dx7 thread is just not as popular.
> 
> The r2r 11 is unique in that it's the cheapest custom ladder dac offering on the market. And it's most likely better than it's nearest competors, the entry-level soekris and Denafrips. It adds a very good amp as a bonus. So i guess it's a disturbing product.



This is what is bothering me.... This thread is smaller than the DX7 thread, especially if you consider my posts not being here. 
You are right that it's a cheap ladder dac and this is part of what made me interested in buying one to try out in the first place (I've had a DX7 basically since it came out) to compare with the DX7. 
But the claims of everything being "good" just make no sense, it's totally subjective and mostly just guessing from people in this thread. 
NOS is inferior for music quality, it's a product mostly built to cater to a crowd of people who like old-school stereo sounds and also who believe ladder DACs are better. 
Its fine if that is what you like, but to claim how it has a "great amp" or is such a "wonderful product" even from people who don't own it is downright silly and cultish.
I also have a thing where I hate when companies spew misinformation for the purpose of marketing. 
When I emailed Kingwa he told me silly things like "needing" an amp of $300+ to "get the full quality" of the R2R-2. That is pure marketing bull for multiple reasons, first of all amps don't add any "quality" nor do they "reveal quality" unless the other amp is not able to fully power the headphones you are listening with. There is only an exception if one has a much higher THD than the other or impedance mismatch. Secondly price != quality! To say that I basically "need" at least his $350 amp to "get the full quality" of the R2R-2 is just him straight trying to take advantage of me. 
When asking him to elaborate / explain what he meant since amps just amplify signal he couldn't do it. 
So ya, not saying he can't make good products but basically he is not above creating / pushing audio myth in order to line his own pockets. 

Lastly I'm not sure why his products don't have real cases or designs.... Seeing the R2R-11 in person.. It looks like a DIY product which I can totally understand for a "bottom tier budget project" but considering his brand has been around a long time and has a very decent sized following... Why can't he have professional looking products considering he doesn't have anything near a "bottom tier budget" price. 

Considering all his Chinese budget competitors have nice cases, better designs etc... The following of audio-gd is based on a time from some years ago when so much quality wasn't available for a low price elsewhere. But times change and it's not good to form cults such as the cultist mindset I have seen in this thread. 
If you cannot compare products objectively then please don't provide your opinion. As it will only sway others who are trying to learn / compare. 

Anyone who wants to try out an entry level ladder dac can buy a starting point systems DAC from eBay. It's gotten good reviews from people who like NOS designs but also has some wild claims made with no basis. Either way it's around $100.
There is also the Schiit Modi Multibit which is also a "multibit" DAC that runs on an internal ladder chip rather than a board implemented ladder as the soekris and audio-gd ones do.


----------



## FredA

Jimster480 said:


> This is what is bothering me.... This thread is smaller than the DX7 thread, especially if you consider my posts not being here.
> You are right that it's a cheap ladder dac and this is part of what made me interested in buying one to try out in the first place (I've had a DX7 basically since it came out) to compare with the DX7.
> But the claims of everything being "good" just make no sense, it's totally subjective and mostly just guessing from people in this thread.
> NOS is inferior for music quality, it's a product mostly built to cater to a crowd of people who like old-school stereo sounds and also who believe ladder DACs are better.
> ...



I beg to differ. Kingwas knows more about amplifiers than you or me. I trust him and respect him. He does not deserve to be treated like this.  Kingwa puts the minimum budget on the chassis and the maximum on the rest. Try to assemble a component he sells. It will cost you more in parts than the asking price. That is what i call value. On the other end, your dx-7 can obviously be made for less money on parts than the asking price. Audio-gd is made of people passionate about sound quality, The r2r 11 is one of the best bargains i have ever seen in audio. Before recommending a Schiit or Topping product, let us know about their shortcomings. And the problem areas of those cies, because they are not perfect either. Nothing is.


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> I beg to differ. Kingwas knows more about amplifiers than you or me. I trust him and respect him. He does not deserve to be treated like this.  Kingwa puts the minimum budget on the chassis and the maximum on the rest. Try to assemble a component he sells. It will cost you more in parts than the asking price. That is what i call value. On the other end, your dx-7 can obviously be made for less money on parts than the asking price. Audio-gd is made of people passionate about sound quality, The r2r 11 is one of the best bargains i have ever seen in audio. Before recommending a Schiit or Topping product, let us know about their shortcomings. And the problem areas of those cies, because they are not perfect either. Nothing is.


Lol more subjective feelings.
The R2R-11 could be made for around $200 total, the DAC modules he was using used to be sold (the previous generation) for $80 each (thats retail) so assume $40 per channel (if that is even his cost). The rest of the components are around $130-150 in costs from mouser (if I had my own R2R-11 I could make a parts list from disassembling it). You would be surprised at the low cost of components these days....
So to say that Kingwa is "making no profit" or other nonsense.... is just that. Pure nonsense. 
He is probably making a smaller profit on the R2R-11 to "compete" in the entry level market and hes compensating himself the time for R&D in order to make other projects too.
Schiit has issues with mythical USB BS spewing, they have crappy USB interfaces and blame USB for their own shortcomings.
Topping so far.... well my DX7 doesn't let one of my computers sleep but I haven't found any other con in my DX7 or my two A30's or my D30. 
Kingwa might know more about assembling them but his "knowledge" doesn't transcend science and measurement. And when people cannot explain their mythical opinions, then they are just that.... OPINIONS especially ones which make him money LOL

I'm tired of arguing in this thread with cultists who will swing everyone the wrong way because they are too deep in their cult. I found the same in many Schiit threads, bought their Modi Multibit based on hype from cultists and it turned out to be a pile of crap which lost plenty of microdetails in songs. 
Smooth sounds don't come without the cost of detail, that is actually how they are smooth. Its higher THD, IMD, noise etc which makes it "smooth". 
Despite your (or anyone elses) FEELINGS it doesn't make a NOS design better than an OS design. It doesn't make R2R better than DS and it doesn't make Kingwa's costs higher than they are. 
Businesses exist to make money and there is nothing wrong with making money. But there is a problem with lying and spewing myth to make money.

I won't be replying more to this thread until I get to do more testing with Audio-GD products in the future as the cultists won't understand any information provided regardless of its basis.

Have a good day


----------



## Renato Fury

What I do not understand is why @FredA and @JaMo then so troubled, do you guys work on Audio-GD? Did you design the R2R 11? This pop flaw for example sucks, the audio quality may be good but this error is inadmissible, but why do you think this product is free of criticism here in this post? This is fanboys thing, if neither the Sennheiser HE1 is perfect which does not make it free from negative reviews, why would the R2R 11 be? And as for you @Jimster480, stop being a whiner, nobody knows this amp you like so much and claims to be better than R2R 11.

Moral of the story: Everyone is wrong and only I am right.


----------



## FredA (Nov 1, 2017)

Renato Fury said:


> What I do not understand is why @FredA and @JaMo then so troubled, do you guys work on Audio-GD? Did you design the R2R 11? This pop flaw for example sucks, the audio quality may be good but this error is inadmissible, but why do you think this product is free of criticism here in this post? This is fanboys thing, if neither the Sennheiser HE1 is perfect which does not make it free from negative reviews, why would the R2R 11 be? And as for you @Jimster480, stop being a whiner, nobody knows this amp you like so much and claims to be better than R2R 11.
> 
> Moral of the story: Everyone is wrong and only I am right.



I think audio-gd is special. I am not paid to say that or have any other interest than to tell what i feel is the truth. I have bought over 7000usd worth of audio-gd gears. I speak my own experience. The popping is a minor flaw for me at least, i can live with it given the excellent sound. A thread on a subject is usually not made to discredit a product. Try  discrediting a Schiit product on a Schiit thread and see what happens. The popping flaw has been covered in all details and it's about the only shortcoming, besides the industrial look.

By the way, the new Da-8 was never offered for DIY.  And it costs more than the DA-m1.


----------



## pinkdan

I’m just here eating popcorn reading everyone’s posts

Btw: my R2R-11 is coming in the mail and my Schiit stack just went out the door


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> I think audio-gd is special. I am not paid to say that or have any other interest than to tell what i feel is the truth. I have bought over 7000usd worth of audio-gd gears. I speak my own experience. The popping is a minor flaw for me at least, i can live with it given the excellent sound. A thread on a subject is usually not made to discredit a product. Try  discrediting a Schiit product on a Schiit thread and see what happens. The popping flaw has been covered in all details and it's about the only shortcoming, besides the industrial look.
> 
> By the way, the new Da-8 was never offered for DIY.  And it costs more than the DA-m1.


I also believe that Audio-GD is better than Schiit, so much so that I prefer to buy R2R 11 instead of Schiit Jotunheim, but this damn pop ... ARGH! This is what keeps me from pulling the trigger, some say that pop is loud, others say it is low, others say that the coaxial and optical inputs do not have pop, others say they have doubts, doubts and more doubts.


pinkdan said:


> I’m just here eating popcorn reading everyone’s posts
> 
> Btw: my R2R-11 is coming in the mail and my Schiit stack just went out the door


So when he comes you tell him what you think of him here.


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> I also believe that Audio-GD is better than Schiit, so much so that I prefer to buy R2R 11 instead of Schiit Jotunheim, but this damn pop ... ARGH! This is what keeps me from pulling the trigger, some say that pop is loud, others say it is low, others say that the coaxial and optical inputs do not have pop, others say they have doubts, doubts and more doubts.
> 
> So when he comes you tell him what you think of him here.



The popping could be an issue if you constantly change audio format. When using a computer, a workaround is to usample everything to the same format. But then it's not NOS anymore. It can still sound great however. It would be nice if someone who tried both usb and spdif could quantify the difference.


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> The popping could be an issue if you constantly change audio format. When using a computer, a workaround is to usample everything to the same format. But then it's not NOS anymore. It can still sound great however. It would be nice if someone who tried both usb and spdif could quantify the difference.


I could only use spotify and youtube, @bunkbail said that it does not have this kind of problem with digital platforms, but what about you ?


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> I could only use spotify and youtube, @bunkbail said that it does not have this kind of problem with digital platforms, but what about you ?


With my r2r 7, i have a problem only using the singxer f-1 with an i2s connection. Almost no issue or none through usb. Haven't tried the other inputs but i don't expect any issue. There might be firmware updates for the 11 at some point to fix the problem. You could email Kingwa and ask.


----------



## bunkbail

Renato Fury said:


> I could only use spotify and youtube, @bunkbail said that it does not have this kind of problem with digital platforms, but what about you ?


I'm too only use Spotify and Youtube, and you already know my answer. Also, please don't refer to me as "it", I find it offensive (lol). Don't you know the unspoken rule of internet? One must always assume people on the internet as men unless stated otherwise.


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> I'm too only use Spotify and Youtube, and you already know my answer. Also, please don't refer to me as "it", I find it offensive (lol). Don't you know the unspoken rule of internet? One must always assume people on the internet as men unless stated otherwise.


It seems like you're offended for no reason, it even looks like a feminist talking, but I'm sorry you're like that, with that kind of thinking your life is going to be harder.


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> With my r2r 7, i have a problem only using the singxer f-1 with an i2s connection. Almost no issue or none through usb. Haven't tried the other inputs but i don't expect any issue. There might be firmware updates for the 11 at some point to fix the problem. You could email Kingwa and ask.


There partner takes me a doubt, I was confusing sampling rate with bitrate, the change of sampling rate is the cause of pop, but the change of bitrate also causes pop ?


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> There partner takes me a doubt, I was confusing sampling rate with bitrate, the change of sampling rate is the cause of pop, but the change of bitrate also causes pop ?


Yes. At least on my R2r 7. But the problem is most likely due to the singxer f-1, so it is probably not relevant to your case. I don't have the r2r 11, i am just resisting buying one for now. 

The popping would not be an issue for me (to use at the office) since i rarely play formats other than 44/16. Good enough for my needs. As for my home setup, again, 99% of my files are 44/16. Plus the latest dacs have evolved so much they sound almost as good playing this standard quality as playing hires.


----------



## Renato Fury (Nov 1, 2017)

FredA said:


> Yes. At least on my R2r 7. But the problem is most likely due to the singxer f-1, so it is probably not relevant to your case. I don't have the r2r 11, i am just resisting buying one for now.
> 
> The popping would not be an issue for me (to use at the office) since i rarely play formats other than 44/16. Good enough for my needs. As for my home setup, again, 99% of my files are 44/16. Plus the latest dacs have evolved so much they sound almost as good playing this standard quality as playing hires.


In my case all my songs are 44100 Hz according to Foobar, but how do I know if my songs are 16, 24 or 32 bit? Forgive me if I'm talking nonsense, I'm a complete noob when it comes to audio.


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> In my case all my songs are 44100 Hz according to Foobar, but how do I know if my songs are 16, 24 or 32 bit? Forgive me if I'm talking nonsense, I'm a complete noob when it comes to audio.


The most common format is 44/16. I don't have foobar at home, unfortunately. Check the file properties in windows, could be stated there. But 44/16 is the most likely. Never seen 44/24 anywhere. And forget about 32 bit files, they don't exist and would be pointless.


----------



## Jimster480

FredA said:


> The most common format is 44/16. I don't have foobar at home, unfortunately. Check the file properties in windows, could be stated there. But 44/16 is the most likely. Never seen 44/24 anywhere. And forget about 32 bit files, they don't exist and would be pointless.


24 is also pointless, but does exist and can sound better for horrible mastering where they don't know how to target the 16 useful bits.
24 really exists for easier recording without tuning the noise floor, during mastering you can simply crop the 16 useful bits to retain all the detail and noise floor required.


----------



## bunkbail

Renato Fury said:


> It seems like you're offended for no reason, it even looks like a feminist talking, but I'm sorry you're like that, with that kind of thinking your life is going to be harder.


I was just cracking a joke. People are so tense in this thread smh.


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> I was just cracking a joke. People are so tense in this thread smh.


The only thing that is making me tense is this annoying pop, the only thing that can stop me from buying the R2R 11, when I find the perfect amplifier that meets my needs ... I think that is ridiculous, at least I hope that sound quality compensates for this frustration.


----------



## Filmguerilla

Hahah same here. The reason i haven't contacted Kingwa to buy the R2R.11 is that pop/clicks.. And it's kinda confusing from different users (Not sure if some are just trolls). I would really like to hear other users about the pop/clicks between songs.. I watched Zeos review on Youtube and the clicks are annoying. I'm a bit anxious with that FLAW..

Also, anyone can confirm that this pop/click ONLY occurs when changing sample rates? I'm a guy that listen to full albums only. I don't make playlists etc.. I drag/drop files to my Media Center whichever i like to listen. I don't do shuffle or anything. My settings on my Jriver all 48oooHZ. I only have a few 24/96 flacs mostly 16/44.. So can anyone confirm if i won't be hearing that annoying pops that much when i listen to an album (Same sample rates etc)

Thanks guys!!!




Renato Fury said:


> I also believe that Audio-GD is better than Schiit, so much so that I prefer to buy R2R 11 instead of Schiit Jotunheim, but this damn pop ... ARGH! This is what keeps me from pulling the trigger, some say that pop is loud, others say it is low, others say that the coaxial and optical inputs do not have pop, others say they have doubts, doubts and more doubts.
> 
> So when he comes you tell him what you think of him here.


----------



## bunkbail

Renato Fury said:


> The only thing that is making me tense is this annoying pop, the only thing that can stop me from buying the R2R 11, when I find the perfect amplifier that meets my needs ... I think that is ridiculous, at least I hope that sound quality compensates for this frustration.


I don't know why the pop is bothering you, considering you haven't even bought it yet. I just took my R2R-11, plugged it in to my smartphone, played a couple songs with it using Spotify and there was no popping happened. I then use UAPP with bit-perfect mode on, the pops are there but were so subtle it didn't bother me in the slightest. I don't use bit-perfect anyways, I just use PowerAmp for my flac collection as I don't hear a single difference in sound quality between them. But I can tell you this, after more than 300 hrs burn-in time with the R2R-11, m previous statement still holds; using a M1060, my Chord Mojo is still a better sounding DAC/amp than R2R-11, in every genre I listen to (EDM, pop, alt rock, ballad, acoustics, lo-fi).


----------



## Jimster480

bunkbail said:


> I don't know why the pop is bothering you, considering you haven't even bought it yet. I just took my R2R-11, plugged it in to my smartphone, played a couple songs with it using Spotify and there was no popping happened. I then use UAPP with bit-perfect mode on, the pops are there but were so subtle it didn't bother me in the slightest. I don't use bit-perfect anyways, I just use PowerAmp for my flac collection as I don't hear a single difference in sound quality between them. But I can tell you this, after more than 300 hrs burn-in time with the R2R-11, m previous statement still holds; using a M1060, my Chord Mojo is still a better sounding DAC/amp than R2R-11, in every genre I listen to (EDM, pop, alt rock, ballad, acoustics, lo-fi).



Mojo will be better because of over sampling if anything. Also their dac is also multibit but it's fpga.


----------



## CJG888

I have found there to be no pop when switching between tracks of the same sample rate.


----------



## CJG888

That is, via coaxial...


----------



## FredA (Nov 2, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> Mojo will be better because of over sampling if anything. Also their dac is also multibit but it's fpga.



The r2r 11 also uses an fpga. 3 of them actually. One in each da-8, one for managing the inputs.

To answer one element of your replies, i never said Kingwa made no profit. He can buy parts for half the retail value, so of course he makes money. But he could make a lot more if he paid for fancy cases and got this popping issue fixed. Not sure it is his main goal. It's not everyone's goal, not mine anyway and i think it's a good thing.


----------



## bunkbail

FredA said:


> The r2r 11 also uses an fpga. 3 of them actually. One in each da-8, one for managing the inputs.
> 
> To answer one element of your replies, i never said Kingwa made no profit. He can buy parts for half the retail value, so of course he makes money. But he could make a lot more if he paid for fancy cases and got this popping issue fixed. Not sure it is his main goal. It's not everyone's goal, not mine anyway and i think it's a good thing.


There is no FPGA in R2R-11, they are CPLDs. There is a big difference between a CPLD and a FPGA, especially its raw performance. Its like comparing a mobile processor and a workstation processor.


----------



## bunkbail

Jimster480 said:


> Mojo will be better because of over sampling if anything. Also their dac is also multibit but it's fpga.


Chord Mojo is not multibit-based, there are no resistor ladder discreet components inside it at all. I once read that Mojo is based on pulse width modulation, all the logic of the DAC and its amplifier are computed directly from its Artix 7 FPGA. I might be wrong but that's about it.


----------



## JaMo

....And how is the subject of this thread respected now and a few pages back? FredA is doing his best to keep on track but it seems to be very hard.  

I see trolls....  Moderators should act to save this thread and to keep the climate healthy in this forum.

Sorry/Jan


----------



## FredA

bunkbail said:


> There is no FPGA in R2R-11, they are CPLDs. There is a big difference between a CPLD and a FPGA, especially its raw performance. Its like comparing a mobile processor and a workstation processor.


It does make any difference as far as the application is concerned IMO. So i didn't make the distinction. It does not change the fact that the r2r 11 uses a r2r ladder that is corrected using a processor and in which all resistors are switched in parallel. This is fancy. It combines old school ideas with new ones. I think it's often a good approach.


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> I don't know why the pop is bothering you, considering you haven't even bought it yet. I just took my R2R-11, plugged it in to my smartphone, played a couple songs with it using Spotify and there was no popping happened. I then use UAPP with bit-perfect mode on, the pops are there but were so subtle it didn't bother me in the slightest. I don't use bit-perfect anyways, I just use PowerAmp for my flac collection as I don't hear a single difference in sound quality between them. But I can tell you this, after more than 300 hrs burn-in time with the R2R-11, m previous statement still holds; using a M1060, my Chord Mojo is still a better sounding DAC/amp than R2R-11, in every genre I listen to (EDM, pop, alt rock, ballad, acoustics, lo-fi).


In fact I do not have it, but I saw the Zeos video and it shows this defect and I found it very annoying, all my songs have the same sample rate, 44100 Hz, but do the different bitrates also cause the pops?


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> In fact I do not have it, but I saw the Zeos video and it shows this defect and I found it very annoying, all my songs have the same sample rate, 44100 Hz, but do the different bitrates also cause the pops?



One should not confuse the bitrate, which is related to the compression level, to the audio format sent to the dac. Pretty much all 44kz files use 16 bit words. Whatever the compression level, it is still the same as far as the r2r 11 is concerned.


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> One should not confuse the bitrate, which is related to the compression level, to the audio format sent to the dac. Pretty much all 44kz files use 16 bit words. Whatever the compression level, it is still the same as far as the r2r 11 is concerned.


I know that sampling rate and bitrates are different things, I just want to know if different bitrates can cause pops, otherwise then I will not have problems with that.


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> I know that sampling rate and bitrates are different things, I just want to know if different bitrates can cause pops, otherwise then I will not have problems with that.


Since it is all the same to the dac, you won't get any popping noise.


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> Since it is all the same to the dac, you won't get any popping noise.


Let me see if I understand, if all my songs are 16/44, regardless of the level of compression that is the bitrate, there will be no pops ?


----------



## FredA

That's correct.


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> That's correct.


So I will not have problems, maybe a pop or another occasionally, but even then I plan to buy an adapter to use the optical input to see if the pops are over or if they will be at least diminished as Zeos said.


----------



## Filmguerilla

Chord Mojo is better than R2R.11? Can the Mojo drive HD 9xx? Can i use it on my desktop for long hours as i don't like charging stuff everytime. Looks like another good option for me.




bunkbail said:


> I don't know why the pop is bothering you, considering you haven't even bought it yet. I just took my R2R-11, plugged it in to my smartphone, played a couple songs with it using Spotify and there was no popping happened. I then use UAPP with bit-perfect mode on, the pops are there but were so subtle it didn't bother me in the slightest. I don't use bit-perfect anyways, I just use PowerAmp for my flac collection as I don't hear a single difference in sound quality between them. But I can tell you this, after more than 300 hrs burn-in time with the R2R-11, m previous statement still holds; using a M1060, my Chord Mojo is still a better sounding DAC/amp than R2R-11, in every genre I listen to (EDM, pop, alt rock, ballad, acoustics, lo-fi).


----------



## Jimster480

bunkbail said:


> Chord Mojo is not multibit-based, there are no resistor ladder discreet components inside it at all. I once read that Mojo is based on pulse width modulation, all the logic of the DAC and its amplifier are computed directly from its Artix 7 FPGA. I might be wrong but that's about it.


Yes that is what I mean. It is completely done inside of the FPGA but it is not a delta-sigma design implemented in the FPGA. 
It is indeed PWM output from the FPGA and the D/A converting is done with software code. 


JaMo said:


> ....And how is the subject of this thread respected now and a few pages back? FredA is doing his best to keep on track but it seems to be very hard.
> 
> I see trolls....  Moderators should act to save this thread and to keep the climate healthy in this forum.
> 
> Sorry/Jan


I'm sorry but technical discussion is not trolling. Also less-than-perfect experiences is also not trolling.


FredA said:


> The r2r 11 also uses an fpga. 3 of them actually. One in each da-8, one for managing the inputs.
> 
> To answer one element of your replies, i never said Kingwa made no profit. He can buy parts for half the retail value, so of course he makes money. But he could make a lot more if he paid for fancy cases and got this popping issue fixed. Not sure it is his main goal. It's not everyone's goal, not mine anyway and i think it's a good thing.


Yes as someone else said there are no FPGA's in the R2R-11, the R2R-2 has a FPGA main controller (that is also how you can adjust the over-sampling because the FPGA is doing the oversampling). 
I agree that the DA-8 modules are cool and this is why I inquired about purchasing originally, but was put off by his recommendations / persona (if that is what you want to call it).

He is definitely making alot of money on these products (especially the higher end ones) and he could have made fancier cases to catapult his brand into a different level of respect (or more mainstream).


----------



## JaMo (Nov 3, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> I'm sorry but technical discussion is not trolling. Also less-than-perfect experiences is also not trolling.



Could be, but repeated deviation from subject-gear and continously spreading of disinformations and quasi truths, not to mention the causing of annoyance almost everywhere, is. A troll is a troll.

Thankfully the moderators keeps their eyes on us, so there is hope.

Enjoy

/Jan


----------



## Jimster480

JaMo said:


> Could be, but repeated deviation from subject-gear and and continously spreading of disinformations and quasi truths, not to mention the causing of annoyance almost everywhere, is. A troll is a troll.
> 
> Thankfully the moderators keeps their eyes on us, so there is hope.
> 
> ...


Your posts are also trolling, both of these posts will be removed due to your obvious trolling in this thread.

Sharing different opinions is not "spreading disinformation" sharing experiences is not "quasi truths".


----------



## conquerator2

Filmguerilla said:


> Chord Mojo is better than R2R.11? Can the Mojo drive HD 9xx? Can i use it on my desktop for long hours as i don't like charging stuff everytime. Looks like another good option for me.


FYI, I owned the Mojo right before the R2R11 and think the R2R11 is better. But your mileage may vary. 
I am not aware of the 9xx so I probably missed an announcement somewhere but the Mojo is not the best choice for more demanding headphones. It has a huge volume range but it's not all that powerful.


----------



## FredA (Nov 3, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> Your posts are also trolling, both of these posts will be removed due to your obvious trolling in this thread.
> 
> Sharing different opinions is not "spreading disinformation" sharing experiences is not "quasi truths".



Sorry Jimster480. But the tone you take towards audio-gd makes you the initiator of all this acerb debating. You are attacking the reputation of a designer we appreciate, and this is not fair. You have a right to express your opinion but you are too emotional to be fully objective. You seem to be on a mission, hence the trolling accusation.

Like when talking FPGA vs CPLD. One processing unit is more powerful than the other, implying a dac using an fpga is better. This is not the case. The latter is perfect for what it is used for, and there are 3 of them, not just one, in the r2r 11. As far as i know, the Altera is a DSP (at least that was the name for it when i got my degree), by the way. But this is pointless again.

About Kingwa making money, good for him. It's well deserved because he gets it while providing amongst the best value products in the business. Products well built that i know for a fact will last. Speaking of value, check what is inside more reknown brands for what you pay. It's nowhere near the value of audio-gd. The master-3 power amp puts to shame amps costing 10k when popping the hood, for instance. Inside, it's really beautiful. The same goes for any audio-gd gear from a certain price point (500$), even the r2r 11 to a certain extent.

So put your frustration to rest please. Or go on some other forum already dedicated to audio-gd bashing. Because right now, your are doing more harm than good and you frankly look like a troll. This will turn against you at some point if your are not one, if not already the case.


----------



## bunkbail

FredA said:


> implying a dac using an fpga is better



Nobody said this, Jimster480 didn't mention any of it and certainly not me. I just point out that there is zero FPGA used in R2R-11, but there are CPLDs used in it. Just like people mentioned HDDs when they say about SSDs, even though both HDD and SSD have the same functions. I simply pointed out misinformation that needs correction, no bad intentions at all.


----------



## kvik

On a more general note every brand or piece of equipment has its own particular level of idiosyncrasy. Whether the user can live with that or not, is a personal assessment. I used to own Naim gear, and power grid conditions in my particular house/area made the large trafos hum noticeably and permanently. You could argue this was due to poor design, that the product was fundamentally flawed. However, power grid conditions vary around the world, and you can’t test for every scenario. The already handselected trafos were considered essential by Naim to achieve their particular house sound, ditching them alltogether would ‘kill’ that sound. Though partly a digression, the example points to the fact that all design and production will entail compromises, there is no perfect product. So, while annoying, I learned to live with the hum, because the sound produced by the gear was fantastic. The fact that Audio-gd is alive and well means that whatever idiosyncrasy is present hasn’t turned customers away thus far, the products are still perceived as VFM. People’s listening impressions in this and the other R2R 11 thread gives an indication as to why that is. Of course limitations or idiosyncrasies should be both mentioned and discussed, they are part of the full picture. However, making them the centre point of discussion, when we are taking budget range products, is really out of proportion. Again, read the listening impressions, check the low/favorable price, and then consider, if the sample rate switching issue will affect you (in your personal user scenario). From there decide, if the R2R 11 is/might be right for you. Also, it’s worth having in mind, that the R2R 11 has just been launched. Not everything about it will be known, and not every question will be answerable by the users in this thread. If that’s problematic to someone they are free to step back and/or look elsewhere. Thankfully my ignore list lets me skip part of the noise injected into this thread, but It’s still one of noisiest I have read for a long time, which is a shame because that noise threatens to kill off the thread.


----------



## Jimster480

kvik said:


> On a more general note every brand or piece of equipment has its own particular level of idiosyncrasy. Whether the user can live with that or not, is a personal assessment. I used to own Naim gear, and power grid conditions in my particular house/area made the large trafos hum noticeably and permanently. You could argue this was due to poor design, that the product was fundamentally flawed. However, power grid conditions vary around the world, and you can’t test for every scenario. The already handselected trafos were considered essential by Naim to achieve their particular house sound, ditching them alltogether would ‘kill’ that sound. Though partly a digression, the example points to the fact that all design and production will entail compromises, there is no perfect product. So, while annoying, I learned to live with the hum, because the sound produced by the gear was fantastic. The fact that Audio-gd is alive and well means that whatever idiosyncrasy is present hasn’t turned customers away thus far, the products are still perceived as VFM. People’s listening impressions in this and the other R2R 11 thread gives an indication as to why that is. Of course limitations or idiosyncrasies should be both mentioned and discussed, they are part of the full picture. However, making them the centre point of discussion, when we are taking budget range products, is really out of proportion. Again, read the listening impressions, check the low/favorable price, and then consider, if the sample rate switching issue will affect you (in your personal user scenario). From there decide, if the R2R 11 is/might be right for you. Also, it’s worth having in mind, that the R2R 11 has just been launched. Not everything about it will be known, and not every question will be answerable by the users in this thread. If that’s problematic to someone they are free to step back and/or look elsewhere. Thankfully my ignore list lets me skip part of the noise injected into this thread, but It’s still one of noisiest I have read for a long time, which is a shame because that noise threatens to kill off the thread.


I understand what you are saying, and the gear you have is your choice. But at no point in time is a $350 DAC/AMP or a $740 DAC or $350 Amp a "budget" product.
He is way out of "budget" range as there are some nice DAC/Amp combos that can be had for $100 or less and there are standalone DAC's using well implemented chips which measure higher performance than his for $150 and $250 price ranges with Amps of all kinds in the $100 range.
Meaning that for $350 you could buy two off the shelf products with measurably better performance (doesn't mean they sound "better", so don't take it the wrong way).
Considering that in the R2R world you could test out R2R with a Starting Point Systems NOS DAC for $90 or go with MUSE there really are a ton of options in this crowded segment today.


----------



## thebkt

Jimster480 said:


> ...Meaning that for $350 you could buy two off the shelf products with measurably better performance (doesn't mean they sound "better", so don't take it the wrong way)...


Care to supply examples of this?


----------



## Jimster480

thebkt said:


> Care to supply examples of this?


TEAC AI-101DA
SMSL M8/M8A + VA2 Amp
SMSL M7 (Dual Mono AK4452 DAC w/ Built in Amp)
SMSL T1 (if you like tube setups)
Topping D3 (Under $100 price for true "budget" hardware that still "sounds good")
Topping D30 + Topping A30 (Flagship CS4392 Based DAC + Flagship TPA6120A2 Based Amp)
Schiit Modi Multibit / Modi 2U + Magni 3
iFi iOne Home
Aune T1
Soekris DAC1101

I mean if you really look there are 50+ products in this segment. Most of them have similar measurable performance. 

Once you reach $400 then it opens the door to many other products aswell 
Like the Topping DX7 or SMSL M9 just to name two off the top of my head. Also Schiit Jot is in the same price tier.


----------



## conquerator2

I'd argue that none of them sound as refined or have the same amount of power available. If you feel they offer the same level of performance, more power to you!


----------



## thebkt

You said "measurably better performance".  When using such definitive language, I'm inclined to want to see evidence to back that up.  I'm sure there are 50+ Stand alone amps/dacs and combo units available in the $350(+/- $100) price range, but which ones have "measurably better performance"?

For example, if we're going to talk about the R2R-11, the only direct DAC comparison I'm aware of (though I am aware there are probably more R2R DACs at that price range) is the Modi Multibit.  Does that have "measurably better performance" than the R2R-11?  I personally feel that my Mimby sounds fantastic and is superior to my FiiO E10k and D30, but you've said that it sounds like trash.  

So, I'm open to reading some examples of "measurably better performance" in the price bracket of the Audio GD R2R DACs.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, they may _measure _better in terms of THD%, Crosstalk and S/N ratios which would in theory translate as "measurably better". Whether that actually _sounds _better is an entirely different issue I think. To use a car analogy, you may have a car that has great specs on paper (lots of horsepower, good acceleration, solid fuel consumption) but it may still handle like crap (or less than the sum of its parts would suggest). On the other hand you might have a less stellar car by specs that performs admirably. It's not so much about the sum of its parts but how they work together and in both of these aspects the R2R11 holds together nicely IMO.


----------



## bunkbail

conquerator2 said:


> Well, they may _measure _better in terms of THD%, Crosstalk and S/N ratios which would in theory translate as "measurably better". Whether that actually _sounds _better is an entirely different issue I think. To use a car analogy, you may have a car that has great specs on paper (lots of horsepower, good acceleration, solid fuel consumption) but it may still handle like crap (or less than the sum of its parts would suggest). On the other hand you might have a less stellar car by specs that performs admirably. It's not so much about the sum of its parts but how they work together and in both of these aspects the R2R11 holds together nicely IMO.


Instead of using a car analogy, I've always liken the SQ of audio equipment with food. Better nutritional values not always equates to better tasting food. Using natural, organic and more expensive ingredients also doesn't equates to better taste either. Its the recipe and the hand who made it that matters most. Also both audio equipment and food are highly subjective, they differ heavily with individuals. To me, superior measurements means zilch if it sounds like crap.


----------



## Jimster480

conquerator2 said:


> I'd argue that none of them sound as refined or have the same amount of power available. If you feel they offer the same level of performance, more power to you!



 completely blind dismissal because you prefer your brand here. Just another characteristic of head fi.
If I just decide that Audio-GD is overhyped and therefore all the prior brands sound better, does that make me correct or did I just pull that statement out of thin air? I think it would be the latter. So please do not comment on other devices without listening to them.



conquerator2 said:


> Well, they may _measure _better in terms of THD%, Crosstalk and S/N ratios which would in theory translate as "measurably better". Whether that actually _sounds _better is an entirely different issue I think. To use a car analogy, you may have a car that has great specs on paper (lots of horsepower, good acceleration, solid fuel consumption) but it may still handle like crap (or less than the sum of its parts would suggest). On the other hand you might have a less stellar car by specs that performs admirably. It's not so much about the sum of its parts but how they work together and in both of these aspects the R2R11 holds together nicely IMO.


Well exactly, but details are overall lower on NOS DAC's and this is basically universally accepted amongst designers.
It has a oldschool stereo kind of sound from before when technology was inferior. So not only does it not measure as well, it also has less detail but it has a sound that some people "like" mostly because its what many people grew up with.

Handling is one characteristic I can understand, but even in that case only the worst performing v8 vehicles are beaten by 4cyl vehicles around a track.
There is a rare gem here and there but considering that cars are my other hobby, typically larger engines dominate racing which is why there are classes based on engine size, turbo size, etc.

Modern day delta sigma flagship DAC's are very good at resolving detail due to complex multi-pass filters that can reconstruct the waveforms in entirety without loss of detail. Its because of the immense speed of processing available today.


----------



## Renato Fury (Nov 4, 2017)

okay so let's talk about R2R 11, well he has a signature more hot side than neutral, so how does he behave with equally hot headphones ?


----------



## conquerator2 (Nov 4, 2017)

Renato Fury said:


> okay so let's talk about R2R 11, well he has a signature more hot side than neutral, so how does he behave with equally hot headphones ?


What do you mean? The R2R11 is definitely on the warmer, smoother side so it should work very well with brighter headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero

conquerator2 said:


> What do you mean? The R2R11 is definitely on the warmer, smoother side so it should work very well with brighter headphones.


+1

I dont find it quite as warm as Mojo,but not "hot"


----------



## Renato Fury

conquerator2 said:


> What do you mean? The R2R11 is definitely on the warmer, smoother side so it should work very well with brighter headphones.


Maybe the google translator has translated wrong, but from what I'm told the hot term refers to bass and mids more premonuated, if I'm wrong then I'll be clearer, as the R2R 11 behaves with headphones with more presence of bass, those made for bassheads ?


----------



## conquerator2

Renato Fury said:


> Maybe the google translator has translated wrong, but from what I'm told the hot term refers to bass and mids more premonuated, if I'm wrong then I'll be clearer, as the R2R 11 behaves with headphones with more presence of bass, those made for bassheads ?


Ah, yes. Seems like Google translated it incorrectly! I have one pair of basshead category headphones and I think they work very well with the R2R11. They are a bit tighter and faster sounding compared to something like the Chord Mojo.


----------



## Renato Fury

conquerator2 said:


> Ah, yes. Seems like Google translated it incorrectly! I have one pair of basshead category headphones and I think they work very well with the R2R11. They are a bit tighter and faster sounding compared to something like the Chord Mojo.


What does tight bass mean ? I see people using this term but I do not know what it means.


----------



## Monsterzero

Tight bass= non boomy,loose bass...

Sorry best I could do.


----------



## conquerator2

Renato Fury said:


> What does tight bass mean ? I see people using this term but I do not know what it means.


Well extended and controlled, good punch and impact but not muddy.


----------



## Renato Fury

Ask me another question, the R2R 11 has a signature that is hotter than neutral, but how hot would you say it's that signature, very hot ? Or maybe just a touch of heat to soften neutral headphones ? How much does this amplifier change the signature of a headphone ?


----------



## conquerator2

Renato Fury said:


> Ask me another question, the R2R 11 has a signature that is hotter than neutral, but how hot would you say it's that signature, very hot ? Or maybe just a touch of heat to soften neutral headphones ? How much does this amplifier change the signature of a headphone ?


Just a touch. It doesn't change the signature of the headphone much, if at all IMO. It makes lower treble a bit more pleasing in general owing to its R2R nature (DS designs tend to have some degree of hardness in that area)


----------



## Autostart

I have been in communication with a few members on here but would like to post this question / recommendation within this thread. Any and all feed back is appreciated.

I am brand new to head fi but not new to hi res audio. I have been building comp stage front in autos for years ( 20 years ). I bought an amp ( Schiit Mjolnir 2 ) and looking for a dac to run along side it. I was thinking of either the R2R 11 or NFB 11.28. I understand that it's a dac amp combo, but I would use it as a stand alone dac while home and then have the option to take it to work or travel with it since it's smaller and will be more mobile.

The question is R2R 11 or NFB 11.28? I am leaning more towards the R2R build, but have been told since I am new to head fi I would want to stick with the NFB 11.28, but I do have some history of hi res audio... Just not a speaker strapped to my head. Lol. Is there anyone that has the Schiit Mjolnir 2 that can give some advice on with using the Audio GD dac's?

Thanks in advance
Eric


----------



## Jimster480

Autostart said:


> I have been in communication with a few members on here but would like to post this question / recommendation within this thread. Any and all feed back is appreciated.
> 
> I am brand new to head fi but not new to hi res audio. I have been building comp stage front in autos for years ( 20 years ). I bought an amp ( Schiit Mjolnir 2 ) and looking for a dac to run along side it. I was thinking of either the R2R 11 or NFB 11.28. I understand that it's a dac amp combo, but I would use it as a stand alone dac while home and then have the option to take it to work or travel with it since it's smaller and will be more mobile.
> 
> ...


ESS will have more detail (11.28), the R2R-11 is made for people who like oldschool stereo sound over high level detail.


----------



## conquerator2

Autostart said:


> I have been in communication with a few members on here but would like to post this question / recommendation within this thread. Any and all feed back is appreciated.
> 
> I am brand new to head fi but not new to hi res audio. I have been building comp stage front in autos for years ( 20 years ). I bought an amp ( Schiit Mjolnir 2 ) and looking for a dac to run along side it. I was thinking of either the R2R 11 or NFB 11.28. I understand that it's a dac amp combo, but I would use it as a stand alone dac while home and then have the option to take it to work or travel with it since it's smaller and will be more mobile.
> 
> ...



Schiit designs in general tend to be on the detailed / analytical side. I imagine the R2R11 would be a nice complement; it's what I'd buy as it should be a bit smoother and more musical than nfb11. If you want to keep the sound characteristics as they are, ntb11 should be the better choice then as it doesn't impair the slight musicality / smoothness of R2R designs.


----------



## Renato Fury

Autostart said:


> I have been in communication with a few members on here but would like to post this question / recommendation within this thread. Any and all feed back is appreciated.
> 
> I am brand new to head fi but not new to hi res audio. I have been building comp stage front in autos for years ( 20 years ). I bought an amp ( Schiit Mjolnir 2 ) and looking for a dac to run along side it. I was thinking of either the R2R 11 or NFB 11.28. I understand that it's a dac amp combo, but I would use it as a stand alone dac while home and then have the option to take it to work or travel with it since it's smaller and will be more mobile.
> 
> ...


Wait a second, if you have the Schiit Mjolnir 2 which I believe is better than the R2R 11 / NFB 11.28, then why do you want to buy it? Would not it be better to buy a Dac ? As for portability, the R2R 11 / NFB 11.28 is a bit big for this, do not you think that something like the Chord Mojo or the Grace M900 is a better option ?


conquerator2 said:


> Schiit designs in general tend to be on the detailed / analytical side. I imagine the R2R11 would be a nice complement; it's what I'd buy as it should be a bit smoother and more musical than nfb11. If you want to keep the sound characteristics as they are, ntb11 should be the better choice then as it doesn't impair the slight musicality / smoothness of R2R designs.


Because R2R 11 is a bit more musical than NFB 11.28, does it lose more detail in the sound ?


----------



## Renato Fury

Jimster480 said:


> ESS will have more detail (11.28), the R2R-11 is made for people who like oldschool stereo sound over high level detail.


Tell us more about this old school stereo from R2R 11.


----------



## Autostart

conquerator2 said:


> Schiit designs in general tend to be on the detailed / analytical side. I imagine the R2R11 would be a nice complement; it's what I'd buy as it should be a bit smoother and more musical than nfb11. If you want to keep the sound characteristics as they are, ntb11 should be the better choice then as it doesn't impair the slight musicality / smoothness of R2R designs.



Thank you for the reply conquerator2. Can you please reiterate and explain in further detail this message as more then one person are very curious to hear about the ' old school stereo ' sound. 

Thanks!


----------



## Autostart

Renato Fury said:


> Wait a second, if you have the Schiit Mjolnir 2 which I believe is better than the R2R 11 / NFB 11.28, then why do you want to buy it? Would not it be better to buy a Dac ? As for portability, the R2R 11 / NFB 11.28 is a bit big for this, do not you think that something like the Chord Mojo or the Grace M900 is a better option ?



Thank you for you opinion and recommendations Renato Fury. 

I was curious to see if the R2R 11 would be a good choice for a stand alone dac with my Mjolnir 2 because, yes.... I would like the option to take it on the road when I mobilize. Of course it's on the larger side, but it's an all in one dac amp possibly smaller then my Mjolnir 2 alone ( not sure. I will have to check the measurements ) and for this reason would be be bad to gave in my stable. I am more concerned on the sound quality of the R2R 11 vs the NFB 11.28 with the Schiit tube amp. 

I am open to recommendations for a stand alone dac as well. I just thought I would kill 2 birds with one stone with the R2R 11.


----------



## conquerator2

Autostart said:


> Thank you for the reply conquerator2. Can you please reiterate and explain in further detail this message as more then one person are very curious to hear about the ' old school stereo ' sound.
> 
> Thanks!


I am not sure how to quite put it but let's see; my experience with higher Delta-Sigma designs (my experience is with the Sabre 9018 chip) is that they do put more detail upfront, compared to an R2R design, the Mojo (which was fairly close to how R2R sounds) or other DS designs that try to go for a smoother sound (AKM, Wolfson, etc.). The upfront detail might sound appealing (and indeed it is if hearing everything tip top clear is your ultimate goal) however what it effectively does is reduce the dynamic range (the way I look at it, I am borrowing a quote from another head-fi user here) because when you're recording music you don't necessarily record everything at the same level (unless you heavily compress / normalize). ESS9018 took this away by essentially evening out the difference between loudest and softest detail (which does not work particularly way with contemporary vocal mastering techniques, btw). The other Delta-Sigma designs sit somewhere halfway and the R2R I feel gets it just right with a natural detail projection without any emphasis or reduction. It does not mask details and it very much leaves it to the particular track and how it's been mastered and the gear around it (headphones / speakers).
My 2 cents, hope this helps


----------



## Renato Fury

Autostart said:


> Thank you for you opinion and recommendations Renato Fury.
> 
> I was curious to see if the R2R 11 would be a good choice for a stand alone dac with my Mjolnir 2 because, yes.... I would like the option to take it on the road when I mobilize. Of course it's on the larger side, but it's an all in one dac amp possibly smaller then my Mjolnir 2 alone ( not sure. I will have to check the measurements ) and for this reason would be be bad to gave in my stable. I am more concerned on the sound quality of the R2R 11 vs the NFB 11.28 with the Schiit tube amp.
> 
> I am open to recommendations for a stand alone dac as well. I just thought I would kill 2 birds with one stone with the R2R 11.


This your thinking would make more sense if you did not have an amplifier and not a dac as is my case, I even want to have two in one, but you already have an amplifier that cost more than twice the R2R 11, I'm almost sure that his dac is not going to be so good to follow the performance of something like Mjolnir 2, I may be wrong but that's what I think, if I had an amplifier of that level I would buy Bifrost Multibit or Gungnir, or maybe a dac from Audio-GD, and for portable use I would buy the Chord Mojo, as for the size of the R2R 11 it is about the size of a print sheet, but still great for portable use, but as I said it is the my opinion, you know what's best for you ... Well that's it, have a good afternoon and stay with God.


----------



## Jimster480

Renato Fury said:


> Tell us more about this old school stereo from R2R 11.


This is just what kingwa told me, that the NOS sound is something that older audiophiles like because it sounds similar to old stereos. 
But when I asked him for details he told me to get the 11-28


----------



## Jimster480

conquerator2 said:


> I am not sure how to quite put it but let's see; my experience with higher Delta-Sigma designs (my experience is with the Sabre 9018 chip) is that they do put more detail upfront, compared to an R2R design, the Mojo (which was fairly close to how R2R sounds) or other DS designs that try to go for a smoother sound (AKM, Wolfson, etc.). The upfront detail might sound appealing (and indeed it is if hearing everything tip top clear is your ultimate goal) however what it effectively does is reduce the dynamic range (the way I look at it, I am borrowing a quote from another head-fi user here) because when you're recording music you don't necessarily record everything at the same level (unless you heavily compress / normalize). ESS9018 took this away by essentially evening out the difference between loudest and softest detail (which does not work particularly way with contemporary vocal mastering techniques, btw). The other Delta-Sigma designs sit somewhere halfway and the R2R I feel gets it just right with a natural detail projection without any emphasis or reduction. It does not mask details and it very much leaves it to the particular track and how it's been mastered and the gear around it (headphones / speakers).
> My 2 cents, hope this helps


They have different filter settings in order to "change" what you have described.
A flat response is what you should be looking for because it will come out as the track was recorded, but how it sounds depends on your headphones and what is emphasized.
I find that "flatter tuned" headphones are more accurate because if the track has alot of bass it will still come out. 


Autostart said:


> Thank you for you opinion and recommendations Renato Fury.
> 
> I was curious to see if the R2R 11 would be a good choice for a stand alone dac with my Mjolnir 2 because, yes.... I would like the option to take it on the road when I mobilize. Of course it's on the larger side, but it's an all in one dac amp possibly smaller then my Mjolnir 2 alone ( not sure. I will have to check the measurements ) and for this reason would be be bad to gave in my stable. I am more concerned on the sound quality of the R2R 11 vs the NFB 11.28 with the Schiit tube amp.
> 
> I am open to recommendations for a stand alone dac as well. I just thought I would kill 2 birds with one stone with the R2R 11.



If you want a single unit which is semi portable I recommend the Topping DX7, its lesser-known but definitely a quality unit which offers alot in the a small-ish package. 
I've had mine since it came out and I listen to it basically every day!


----------



## Renato Fury

Jimster480 said:


> This is just what kingwa told me, that the NOS sound is something that older audiophiles like because it sounds similar to old stereos.
> But when I asked him for details he told me to get the 11-28


I'm willing to lose a little detail to get more musicality, because I do not work in that area, I just want to enjoy good music, I hope I'm making the right choice.


----------



## Jimster480

Renato Fury said:


> I'm willing to lose a little detail to get more musicality, because I do not work in that area, I just want to enjoy good music, I hope I'm making the right choice.


Its a smoother sound, I can see how some will prefer it. Its all based on your tastes.
The good thing is that if you don't like the R2R-11, I'm pretty sure you can sell it on here quite easily.


----------



## Monsterzero

The R2R-11 has special synergy with my brighter headphones.My original ATH AD2000s,a notoriously finicky headphone sounds absolutely epic thru the R2R-11,as do my son's Grado SR80e.

For warm headphones and power hungry beasts like my sextetts I have other options I prefer more for an amp,still use the DAC section.

My Focal Aria 905s sound really nice and smooth and imaging and staging is nice


----------



## JaMo (Nov 7, 2017)

Jimster480 said:


> NOS sound is something that older audiophiles like because it sounds similar to old stereos


 - Not true.

R2R in combination with a well designed DSP achieves a more real, a more true reproduction of the recorded material. That's what HiFi (High Fidelity) means. DS can deliver an overaccentuated detailed, rather artificial sound if not filtered correct.
Nos mode can be too soft for some people if its paired with a too "slow" amp. The R2R-11 is not. It is very well balanced and sounds very realistic and alive in some sense. It doesn't lack details at all.

Well, we are after different things here. I am a high end guy who like oversized amps that effortless produces the true, laidback sound I get both at real live acoustic concerts, as well as at home with my rig. Of course I limit the amps not to damage the speakers or headphones used. It is quite common doing like this. With certain headphones another beast reveals itself when feeding it under controlled conditions with a real "powerhouse".

I have a lot experience of ESS ES9018 (and now also with the 9028pro and the 9038pro) and they can sound really good even to me but it has to do with how they are implemented with amping and filtering. Audio-gd's NFB-28's are really good examples. ..But most often I think the ESS dacs  out there sounds a bit too "synthetic" to me and cannot therefore be included as HiEnd in my world.

I have both the 11.28 and the R2R-11 and later one wins for me. If You care less for true musicreproduction and are in for a more clean, dry and ultrarevealing sound, the 11.28 is right for You. As usual it has to do with matching to get Your preferred result.

/Jan


----------



## Jimster480

JaMo said:


> - Not true.
> 
> R2R in combination with a well designed DSP achieves a more real, a more true reproduction of the recorded material. That's what HiFi (High Fidelity) means. DS can deliver a overaccentuated detailed, rather artificial sound ifnot filtered corrct.
> Nos mode can be too soft for some people if its paired with a too "slow" amp. The R2R-11 is not. It is very well balanced and sounds very realistic and alive in some sense. It doesn't lack details at all.
> ...



I both agree and disagree, it really depends on the implementation regardless of the method. 
2 DAC's with the same chips don't necessarily sound the same because of the analog stage, power filtering, transport methods, etc
But NOS itself does introduce ultrasonics (especially since 99% of music today is recorded with Delta-Sigma ADC's) and has a higher noise floor vs oversampled music (unless you are playing true 24b content).


----------



## Autostart

This is all very interesting to me. It seems as though both the R2R 11 and NFB 11.28 are great dac amps and perform fantastic especially at the price point they come in at. The way I take it thus far in layman term that one performs with more high and exaggerate the tones for the trendy followers, and the other is a more ' straight and true ' so to speak. Now, the question is which one is right for you (and me, too since I need a dac)?


----------



## kvik (Nov 8, 2017)

There are a few (semi)portable R2R dac/amp alternatives to Audio-gd R2R 11, but all of them more expensive:

Soekris DAC1421 ($850)
Tento PortaDAC ($700)
Myst DAC1866OCU ($1000)
AKS DAC1851HPA ($650)
Metrum Amethyst ($1150)


Edit: Forgot Soekris DAC1101 ($425), which is in the same price range as R2R 11


----------



## Autostart (Nov 7, 2017)

I've slept on it for a few days and finally made up my mind. One thing I don't get is why people make ordering audio equipment from Audio - GD a difficult process. Maybe I missed something, but I'm pretty sure they just want your money.


----------



## Autostart

Does anyone use mIRC TO download music still?


----------



## JimJames

But what is it with this pop? It only happens once you change the bit rate but then stops or goes all through that new bit rate you've selected ruining what you're hearing?


----------



## CJG888

No, just one pop on syncing with the new sample rate.


----------



## JimJames

Then if you know the sample rate of what you're playing before hand you could just change it beforehand and go on right? Why would you want to change it amid a song? I'm a newbie so need a little guidance...


----------



## bunkbail (Nov 9, 2017)

JimJames said:


> Then if you know the sample rate of what you're playing before hand you could just change it beforehand and go on right? Why would you want to change it amid a song? I'm a newbie so need a little guidance...


Some people have collection of song with varying sample rates and bit depth and they like to do playbacks of these files at their native sample rate and bit depth (also known as bit-perfect playback) which can offer better sound quality (some of them swear by it). Personally I think its a nuisance and my setup is not revealing enough to hear a difference.


----------



## FredA (Nov 9, 2017)

JimJames said:


> Then if you know the sample rate of what you're playing before hand you could just change it beforehand and go on right? Why would you want to change it amid a song? I'm a newbie so need a little guidance...


Scenario:

You have a playlist with 44/16 and 96/24 files. Upon starting a new song, the sample rate automatically changes both in the player and the dac to keep in synch with the track format. Then, your hear a pop.


----------



## FredA

Like Bunkbail implied, you can configured most players to alway output the same format (sample rate and bit depth) to the dac. Then you will never hear a pop.


----------



## Jerda

So, is the r2r working with latest android and iOS?


----------



## Autostart

I will let you know when mine arrives.


----------



## Jerda (Nov 9, 2017)

Thx mate.
To everyone that can do it: try it with latest android and iOS cause i wanna really buy it instead of buying the schiit stack multibit but i will plug it to tidal from smartphone, so I really need to know it.
EDIT: @Kingwa


----------



## bunkbail

Jerda said:


> Thx mate.
> To everyone that can do it: try it with latest android and iOS cause i wanna really buy it instead of buying the schiit stack multibit but i will plug it to tidal from smartphone, so I really need to know it.
> EDIT: @Kingwa


The R2R-11 works out of the box with my Galaxy S3, S6, S7 and Nexus 7. Tested on Nougat and Oreo. On older versions like Kit Kat, I need to use 3rd party drivers like USB Audio Player Pro or Onkyo HF Player to make it work. As for iOS, I have an iPhone 5S but I don't own an Apple CCK cables to test any DAC/amps, sorry.


----------



## Jerda (Nov 10, 2017)

THANKS!
EDIT: Kingwa has a new amanero since the last two months, so it works flawlessly now


----------



## I g o r

It works fine with iOS and CCK. The previous version already worked (USB32).


----------



## Jerda

Yeah, problems with the old version start with android devices.


----------



## Renato Fury

Has anyone ever tested the AKG K712 Pro with the R2R 11 ? I would like to know how they work together.


----------



## Monsterzero

Renato Fury said:


> Has anyone ever tested the AKG K712 Pro with the R2R 11 ? I would like to know how they work together.



take this with a grain of salt but Ive never heard ATH AD2000s sound better than thru R2R-11...theres just this magic synergy going on.

The AD2000s and K712s are kinda similar in voicing and specs....


----------



## Autostart

monsterzero said:


> take this with a grain of salt but Ive never heard ATH AD2000s sound better than thru R2R-11...theres just this magic synergy going on.
> 
> The AD2000s and K712s are kinda similar in voicing and specs....



Why do You say salt? There has to be a 'but' coming....... 

Reason I ask is because I have an R2R 11 on order and curious has to how it's going to power my Audeze LCD cans.


----------



## Jerda

Lcd2?3? X? Curious about it if you don't have an LCDX as I'm interested in the new lcd2c


----------



## Autostart

LCD 2 and LCD X


----------



## Jerda

Interested on the lcd2 driven by r2r11.
What else amp do you have?


----------



## Autostart

I cannot say atm. I just ordered the headphones. Should be here early next week. 
I'm running Schiit Mjolnir 2 for an amp and will run the dac for the R2R ( once it gets here ) to the MJ2 as a stand alone dac.


----------



## Jerda

Obviously give a try to the r2r11 full package and let we know about your thoughts about it 
Have a good night/day, it's 3.24am here ihihih


----------



## Autostart

Of course I will try both amps. I am also in search of a semi portable / portable amp / dac amp that I can use at work. My true intentions of the R2R 11 are to of course test as a stand alone unit and also with the MJ2, but over all I was going to bring it to work to keep on my desk to power a semi portable set of cans. I guess it depends how the performance is and how the R2R 11 sounds after some testing. Never know. You might see my Schiit Mjolnir 2 job for sale. Then you will have your answer.


----------



## Renato Fury

Autostart said:


> Of course I will try both amps. I am also in search of a semi portable / portable amp / dac amp that I can use at work. My true intentions of the R2R 11 are to of course test as a stand alone unit and also with the MJ2, but over all I was going to bring it to work to keep on my desk to power a semi portable set of cans. I guess it depends how the performance is and how the R2R 11 sounds after some testing. Never know. You might see my Schiit Mjolnir 2 job for sale. Then you will have your answer.


Semi portable, how about this one?





Grace Design M900.


----------



## Renato Fury

monsterzero said:


> take this with a grain of salt but Ive never heard ATH AD2000s sound better than thru R2R-11...theres just this magic synergy going on.
> 
> The AD2000s and K712s are kinda similar in voicing and specs....


I found that your comment interesting about ATH-AD2000, so much so that I decided to give a researched about it, but you were referring to the original version or the X version ?


----------



## JimJames

monsterzero said:


> take this with a grain of salt but Ive never heard ATH AD2000s sound better than thru R2R-11...theres just this magic synergy going on.
> 
> The AD2000s and K712s are kinda similar in voicing and specs....



Can you elaborate a little bit more on that magic synergy? How does it compliment the AD2000 (open model I suppose) sound? I'm deciding between K712 or paying 200€ more por the AD2000 (just cause I really liked AD900 when I tried them for the first time) so you could be very helpful to me.


----------



## Monsterzero

Renato Fury said:


> I found that your comment interesting about ATH-AD2000, so much so that I decided to give a researched about it, but you were referring to the original version or the X version ?



Original.My gear is listed in my signature.



JimJames said:


> Can you elaborate a little bit more on that magic synergy? How does it compliment the AD2000 (open model I suppose) sound? I'm deciding between K712 or paying 200€ more por the AD2000 (just cause I really liked AD900 when I tried them for the first time) so you could be very helpful to me.



I would highly suggest researching prior to buying.Its one of the more polarizing headphones because of its lack of sub-bass and difficulty to amp correctly.
Here is a good review to read,author is the one who turned me onto them.If you do decide to get a pair,theyre quite rare,although I did see a pair recently for a steal of a price on another website I cannot mention here...sorry.

They kind of have a planar-like speed to them,ultra fast.The R2R-11 gives them the widest staging Ive ever heard and fleshes out the mid bass quite nicely without bloating it.Needless to say my AD2000s have been getting quite a bit of head time lately.


----------



## Renato Fury

monsterzero said:


> Original.My gear is listed in my signature.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What about the X version, did you already test it ? Is it a good pairing with R2R 11 ?


----------



## JimJames

monsterzero said:


> Original.My gear is listed in my signature.
> 
> They kind of have a planar-like speed to them,ultra fast.The R2R-11 gives them the widest staging Ive ever heard and fleshes out the mid bass quite nicely without bloating it.Needless to say my AD2000s have been getting quite a bit of head time lately.



Argh I love what you say there, hope it would do a similar thing to k712s. Might have to end up biting the bullet for the stax 300 though to get Wagner in full tilt...


----------



## Renato Fury

JimJames said:


> Argh I love what you say there, hope it would do a similar thing to k712s. Might have to end up biting the bullet for the stax 300 though to get Wagner in full tilt...


I'm also interested in having both the K712 and R2R 11, you're sure to get them before me, so please tell us how they both work together.


----------



## Monsterzero

monsterzero said:


> The R2R-11 gives them the widest staging Ive ever heard





JimJames said:


> Argh I love what you say there, hope it would do a similar thing to k712s. Might have to end up biting the bullet for the stax 300 though to get Wagner in full tilt...



Ahh,I see what I did there...My wording was misleading.I meant to say the staging was the widest Ive ever heard for the ATH AD2000,not for any headphone....that award would go to HD800 and Beyer T1,but as I said,this combo is an excellent one.


----------



## Renato Fury

monsterzero said:


> Ahh,I see what I did there...My wording was misleading.I meant to say the staging was the widest Ive ever heard for the ATH AD2000,not for any headphone....that award would go to HD800 and Beyer T1,but as I said,this combo is an excellent one.


By the analysis I read the AD2000X has a few improvements to justify more than double the price of the AD1000X, in one of the analyzes the guy said that the 2000X is 99% of the 1000X, so it is not worth to pay 320 dollars more, this is a Sorry because that's what I was planning to buy after the K712.


----------



## JimJames

monsterzero said:


> Ahh,I see what I did there...My wording was misleading.I meant to say the staging was the widest Ive ever heard for the ATH AD2000,not for any headphone....that award would go to HD800 and Beyer T1,but as I said,this combo is an excellent one.


And how would you qualify it in terms of quality though? Because for example as much as I like HD800's soundstage I think it's like a dark room where streams of light come at you from different points, which is certainly impressive but perharps not the most natural. On the contrary, the ath x5000 may not have such a wide  spacious soundstage but, though still pretty wide, it is definetly more airy giving a vibrant live music feel that the hd800 lack imo. Haven't heard the T1s though. So basically I'd like to ask you one more question and stop monopolizing this thread haha. Does the staging augment to such a degree where you can get the full body of such a thing as tristan's prelude with the correspondent imaging to fully appreciate it, or get the off stage sounds as in berlioz's symphonie fantastique bells; and still retaining that nice airy sound? Basically I'd love to get the x5000 through the much cheaper AD2000.


Renato Fury said:


> I'm also interested in having both the K712 and R2R 11, you're sure to get them before me, so please tell us how they both work together.


Oh god I'm still debating day and night on what to get because I can't wait any longer but it still will take a month or two... I'll write something anyway if I end up getting the k712 combo (570€) instead of ATH or stax (+800/900€) which would be the most intelligent option financial wise at the moment.


----------



## Renato Fury

JimJames said:


> And how would you qualify it in terms of quality though? Because for example as much as I like HD800's soundstage I think it's like a dark room where streams of light come at you from different points, which is certainly impressive but perharps not the most natural. On the contrary, the ath x5000 may not have such a wide  spacious soundstage but, though still pretty wide, it is definetly more airy giving a vibrant live music feel that the hd800 lack imo. Haven't heard the T1s though. So basically I'd like to ask you one more question and stop monopolizing this thread haha. Does the staging augment to such a degree where you can get the full body of such a thing as tristan's prelude with the correspondent imaging to fully appreciate it, or get the off stage sounds as in berlioz's symphonie fantastique bells; and still retaining that nice airy sound? Basically I'd love to get the x5000 through the much cheaper AD2000.
> 
> Oh god I'm still debating day and night on what to get because I can't wait any longer but it still will take a month or two... I'll write something anyway if I end up getting the k712 combo (570€) instead of ATH or stax (+800/900€) which would be the most intelligent option financial wise at the moment.


Which ATH, maybe 2000X ?


----------



## Autostart

Renato Fury said:


> Semi portable, how about this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This dis not get such threat reviews.


----------



## Monsterzero (Nov 13, 2017)

JimJames said:


> And how would you qualify it in terms of quality though? Because for example as much as I like HD800's soundstage I think it's like a dark room where streams of light come at you from different points, which is certainly impressive but perharps not the most natural. On the contrary, the ath x5000 may not have such a wide  spacious soundstage but, though still pretty wide, it is definetly more airy giving a vibrant live music feel that the hd800 lack imo. Haven't heard the T1s though. So basically I'd like to ask you one more question and stop monopolizing this thread haha. Does the staging augment to such a degree where you can get the full body of such a thing as tristan's prelude with the correspondent imaging to fully appreciate it, or get the off stage sounds as in berlioz's symphonie fantastique bells; and still retaining that nice airy sound? Basically I'd love to get the x5000 through the much cheaper AD2000.
> 
> Oh god I'm still debating day and night on what to get because I can't wait any longer but it still will take a month or two... I'll write something anyway if I end up getting the k712 combo (570€) instead of ATH or stax (+800/900€) which would be the most intelligent option financial wise at the moment.



I do find the staging of the AD2000 thru the R2R-11 nice and wide,yet still _entirely coherent_....something the T1 and HD800 do not do 100% of the time IMHO.

*Couple things:*
*I know nothing about classical,so I cant say one way or the other if the AD2000 is good for that genre.

*Because of the rarity and polarizing response of the original AD2000 I do not recommend it here on Head-Fi,nor to family/friends.There are safer and easier to find options.

*I cannot add anything further other than what Asr wrote several years ago in his incredibly detailed and exhaustive review.I highly suggest reading his review(linked earlier in this thread) as well as the follow up comments by other members so that you might get a sense as to whether or not the AD2000 is a headphone you'd enjoy.I agree with most of what he wrote and find the R2R-11 to be the best amp/DAC for it that Ive tried to date.

*Asr told me that the AD2000x is not a suitable option to the original.YMMV.

We need to get back onto the topic of this thread.If you have any other questions about it feel free to PM me


----------



## JimJames

Can someone compare the R2R with Meier Corda jazz ff(plus some 100$ DAC, say modi) or Fostex HPA4?


----------



## Renato Fury

And then I bought the HD 6XX and still in doubt between NFB 11.28 and R2R 11, being that I am new to the world of audiophilia and these will be my first products at hi-fi level, and this will be my final game For a long time, which one do you think is the best option for me ?


----------



## Autostart

Renato Fury said:


> And then I bought the HD 6XX and still in doubt between NFB 11.28 and R2R 11, being that I am new to the world of audiophilia and these will be my first products at hi-fi level, and this will be my final game For a long time, which one do you think is the best option for me ?



One thing I can say and have noticed is that your ears will adjust to some degree. I have been told and have read here on the forums that you cannot go wrong with either one. If you do not want to take the risk and remove the guessing game from the equation then go ahead and order the Schiit Yggy


----------



## ctaxxxx

Anyone know how this compares to the Liquid Carbon (since I have never heard the Mojo)? Is it just as warm?

I've been eyeing the R2R 11 as a *warmer (smoother)* alternative to the Creative Sound Blaster X7's bright DAC/AMP. Will be using this with the Sony MDR-Z1R.


----------



## Jimster480

Well I can tell you guys that Soekris isn't an option to purchase from, when I ordered my Soekris DAC 33 days ago I didn't even receive an email.
I have reached out to them twice without a response and the website hasn't been updated at all to reflect different shipping dates despite me ordering the DAC and it supposedly shipping "late october".


----------



## unclebrudy

JimJames said:


> Can someone compare the R2R with Meier Corda jazz ff(plus some 100$ DAC, say modi) or Fostex HPA4?


If you can wait until this time next week, I can. Earlier in this thread I gave my opinion on the R2R 11 and grew very familiar with it, and traded for the Corda Jazz-ff yesterday. I'll test it with the R2R's DAC output for apples to apples on the DAC side, as well as from an iFi nano iOne.


----------



## unclebrudy

ctaxxxx said:


> Anyone know how this compares to the Liquid Carbon (since I have never heard the Mojo)? Is it just as warm?
> 
> I've been eyeing the R2R 11 as a *warmer (smoother)* alternative to the Creative Sound Blaster X7's bright DAC/AMP. Will be using this with the Sony MDR-Z1R.


I'm not familiar with the SB X7, but I will tell you that I don't find the R2R 11 warm whatsoever. It's musical, and has body versus the NFB-11 (mine was the 11.32, S/PDIF input from the nano iOne as a DDC). The consensus is the Carbon is about as warm and gooey as a SS amp can get, so I'd say between it and the R2R 11 they are two different beasts.


----------



## conquerator2

ctaxxxx said:


> Anyone know how this compares to the Liquid Carbon (since I have never heard the Mojo)? Is it just as warm?
> 
> I've been eyeing the R2R 11 as a *warmer (smoother)* alternative to the Creative Sound Blaster X7's bright DAC/AMP. Will be using this with the Sony MDR-Z1R.


It definitely is that. The X7 is on the bright sound of neutral while the R2R11 is on the smoother / warmer side.
It is not as warm or gooey as the Carbon but to me that was a good thing (I am in the minority who did not enjoy the Carbon that much because of how gooey it was )
It will complement the X7 very well IMO..


----------



## JimJames

unclebrudy said:


> If you can wait until this time next week, I can. Earlier in this thread I gave my opinion on the R2R 11 and grew very familiar with it, and traded for the Corda Jazz-ff yesterday. I'll test it with the R2R's DAC output for apples to apples on the DAC side, as well as from an iFi nano iOne.


 Oh yes


----------



## unclebrudy

conquerator2 said:


> It definitely is that. The X7 is on the bright sound of neutral while the R2R11 is on the smoother / warmer side.
> It is not as warm or gooey as the Carbon but to me that was a good thing (I am in the minority who did not enjoy the Carbon that much because of how gooey it was )
> It will complement the X7 very well IMO..


I've never heard the Carbon personally, but I feel like our tastes would be similar. Very recently I had the Mimby feeding a Lyr 2. The Mimby has great body and a very noticeable _thump_ if you will on the low end - it's really a great sounding DAC, and is the first DAC that demonstrated to me the whole "DACs do/don't affect SQ much" because it damn sure did. I had the Lyr 2 with a couple pairs of great-sounding NOS tubes as well as LISSTs, and while the sound is shaped pretty well tube-rolling, it never tilts away from it's warm nature. I simply found the Mimby/Lyr 2 combo way too warm and gooey. It was bizarre, because the resolution was there and it was not smeary in the slightest, it was just too overwhelming. From what I've read I feel like that'd be a similar reaction I'd share with the Carbon. Haha.

Anyhow, sorry for that tangent to the topic at hand. =)


----------



## ctaxxxx

unclebrudy said:


> I'm not familiar with the SB X7, but I will tell you that I don't find the R2R 11 warm whatsoever. It's musical, and has body versus the NFB-11 (mine was the 11.32, S/PDIF input from the nano iOne as a DDC). The consensus is the Carbon is about as warm and gooey as a SS amp can get, so I'd say between it and the R2R 11 they are two different beasts.



Interesting. I usually associate musical & body with warmth. I guess I can take away that the R2R 11 is not sterile / clinical sounding.



conquerator2 said:


> It definitely is that. The X7 is on the bright sound of neutral while the R2R11 is on the smoother / warmer side.
> It is not as warm or gooey as the Carbon but to me that was a good thing (I am in the minority who did not enjoy the Carbon that much because of how gooey it was )
> It will complement the X7 very well IMO..



Thanks. I think it might actually suit the MDR-Z1R better than something like the Liquid Carbon, since it's already a warm headphone. Something on the warmer side of neutral sounds better now that I think about it. The SB X7 tends to bring unnecessary glare. I might actually order these today.


----------



## unclebrudy

ctaxxxx said:


> Interesting. I usually associate musical & body with warmth. I guess I can take away that the R2R 11 is not sterile / clinical sounding.


I can see how many associate those things altogether. It could be perhaps because of what I just mentioned a post above - the comparative gear I used was a Mimby/Lyr 2, where both exhibit insane levels of warmth to my ear.

You're spot on though about the _not sterile/clinical sounding. _If there was one thing about the NFB-11 I'm not terribly fond if is it's exactly that. I'm guilty of calling it _boring_ here in the past, but it also happens to be spectacular if you're looking for that. The R2R 11 I find more enjoyable, though again, not warm nor gooey. Others I'm sure feel differently.


----------



## VenturaRoyal

unclebrudy said:


> I can see how many associate those things altogether. It could be perhaps because of what I just mentioned a post above - the comparative gear I used was a Mimby/Lyr 2, where both exhibit insane levels of warmth to my ear.
> 
> You're spot on though about the _not sterile/clinical sounding. _If there was one thing about the NFB-11 I'm not terribly fond if is it's exactly that. I'm guilty of calling it _boring_ here in the past, but it also happens to be spectacular if you're looking for that. The R2R 11 I find more enjoyable, though again, not warm nor gooey. Others I'm sure feel differently.


I personally loved my NFB-11 with headphones that were neutral/warm. The HD650 and HD600 sounded amazing out of it to me because it opened up the sound with changing the character of the headphones in a major way. YMMV


----------



## Autostart

Received my R2R 11 this weekend so my use is limited. I have it running R2R 11>MJ2>LCD-2 and Fostex TH-X00 Ebony. I will leave this short and sweet in by saying.... The R2R 11 turned my Massdrop Fostex Ebony's into LCD-2's and the LCD-2's the same advancements but escalated the soundstage and definition just that much more; they're displaying great characteristics while maintaining that neutral sound flavor that Audeze is known for. I believe the dac to be far superior in the NFB and R2R then the amp. Not that the amp is bad, but you have to understand I amp A - B'ing with a MJ2 with Amperex tubes. 

Given I have the choice to listen to either the Fostex's of LCD-2's and I hate to say that I most;y rode out with the Fostex's all weekend. After dinner I broke out the LCD-2's and boy, oh boy........


----------



## Renato Fury

Could anyone make a comparison between the R2R 11 against the Magni 3 and Modi Multibit ?


----------



## Kermeli

anyone used these with sony MDR Z1R?


----------



## MorrisVentus

Hello guys. about to make purchase for r2r 11 soon, but wanted to ask few questions.
I have K712 pro and HD6xx on the way.

1. how long does it take to receive the item? and how much after shipping? Would assume around 380~390 I guess.

2. How is driver on this thing? I heard it got easier but yeah. I do have optic cable. Does optic cable really affect sound quality that much over usb?

3. What are the things I should look for in case of defect when I first receive it? Is it alright to leave it on all the time, or on and off when needed? How long does it take to warm up?

4. How is sound? I used to use Magni Modi 2 Uber stack, which I sold as soon as magni 3 came out and price started dropping horribly. (bought used like 3 weeks before the magni 3 release)

Been waiting for modi 3, which seems unlikely. So was considering Modi Multibit with magni 3, which puts at price range of R2R 11.

So this is dac and amp right?


Thank you for your time.


----------



## JKDJedi (Dec 2, 2017)

VenturaRoyal said:


> I personally loved my NFB-11 with headphones that were neutral/warm. The HD650 and HD600 sounded amazing out of it to me because it opened up the sound with changing the character of the headphones in a major way. YMMV


Thanks, just sent an email to these guys (for the 11.28)...oh god..I'm in deep dudu when the wifey finds out  *Upgrade TCXO for  ES9028 <---- is this worth the $20??*


----------



## hndd

Another question about the pop-sound.
Will I notice it when using stuff like Spotify/Youtube/Netflix? Or to put it differently, can I put the driver to output the same sampling rate no matter what?

Is this only an issue for people who want to deliberately use different samping rates or will it be noticeable in every-day-use?


----------



## JKDJedi

Just got my response from them and WOW....  (w the ES9028 upgrade) the NFB11.28 amp (with shipping)  will only cost $366! That's an insane price.


----------



## MorrisVentus

JKDJedi said:


> Just got my response from them and WOW....  (w the ES9028 upgrade) the NFB11.28 amp (with shipping)  will only cost $366! That's an insane price.



Hey man. I ordered R2R 11, which is pretty much different sound interpretation of nfb 11, with tcxo upgrade already on it.

Paid 378 for it including shipping. So if you like more analytical, nfb11. More musical r2r11. For about 15 dollar difference.


----------



## Autostart

I've had my unit now for a little over a week and I have yet to hear the popping mentioned in other threads. I mostly listen to Spotify and YouTube. I haven't listened to some private stock which I'm sure was different b/r then Spotify and still.... no popping.


----------



## JKDJedi

MorrisVentus said:


> Hey man. I ordered R2R 11, which is pretty much different sound interpretation of nfb 11, with tcxo upgrade already on it.
> 
> Paid 378 for it including shipping. So if you like more analytical, nfb11. More musical r2r11. For about 15 dollar difference.


Right on, thanks. I'm kinda hoping the jumpers on the nfb11 to a warmer sound will be noticeable if I want something different, and yes im still torn between both these guys! Will be powering the hd6xx cans and the LCD2 Classic Audeze.


----------



## alota

Autostart said:


> I've had my unit now for a little over a week and I have yet to hear the popping mentioned in other threads. I mostly listen to Spotify and YouTube. I haven't listened to some private stock which I'm sure was different b/r then Spotify and still.... no popping.


which version do you have? sabre or r2r?


----------



## kvik

alota said:


> which version do you have? sabre or r2r?


His profile page/source inventory says AUDIO - GD R2R 11


----------



## JKDJedi

Jimster480 said:


> ESS will have more detail (11.28), the R2R-11 is made for people who like oldschool stereo sound over high level detail.


I"m reading through this whole thread laughing at the "I don't feel pretty anymore" comments when THIS ^^ happens...thank you, you saved this thread!  You explained the differences in layman terms and I THANK YOU FOR THAT,


----------



## alota

i bought this: https://www.magnahifi.com/en/webshop/product/r2r15-nos
same of r2r11/11.28 but with an old tda1541 
and the price is lower


----------



## kvik (Dec 5, 2017)

I don’t think they are the same. My guess is, that R2R 15 was the first attempt to build a NOS R2R/Multibit DAC in this price range, possibly encouraged by Magna (since they are the only ones who sell it). Then the DA-8 boards were ready (and replaced DA-7 further up the range), and it was decided to apply them to the budget DAC as well, which then became R2R 11. So, my guess is R2R 11 is worth the extra outlay, but again, I’m just guessing.

EDIT: Found R2R 15 on Audio-gd's chinese site version. Maybe it was/is primarily intended for domestic sale.


----------



## alota

the amplifier is pratically the same, confirmed by the shop. same power output, etc. the only difference is the dac.
in any case saved some money. and the dac is good but limited to 16 bit


----------



## Dani321

Could anyone here help me to decide between one of these NFB 11.29 or R2r 11 or Magni 3 + Modi 2?


----------



## JKDJedi

Dani321 said:


> Could anyone here help me to decide between one of these NFB 11.29 or R2r 11 or Magni 3 + Modi 2?


Check out Youtube reviews of these guys.


----------



## teainhaler

Does anyone know if these units are good for sensitive  / low impedance IEMs such as Andros and the sort?   

I'm wondering if the noise floor would be low enough, or are these better suited to normal headphones.


----------



## Anaz (Dec 9, 2017)

teainhaler said:


> Does anyone know if these units are good for sensitive  / low impedance IEMs such as Andros and the sort?
> 
> I'm wondering if the noise floor would be low enough, or are these better suited to normal headphones.



IEMs sound great on the R2R 11: I've listened to Massdrop x NuForce EDCs (16 ohm impedance), VSD3s (40 ohm impedance), and GR07s (51 ohm impedance).  The headphone output impedance on the R2R 11 is 2 ohm, so I'm assuming most IEMs would be okay.

EDIT: I generally kept the volume knob around 8 o'clock when listening to IEMs


----------



## bgbkt

Anyone has experience using R2R 11 with Focal Elear headphone? Do you guys think it would be good match? Thanks.


----------



## teainhaler

Anaz said:


> IEMs sound great on the R2R 11: I've listened to Massdrop x NuForce EDCs (16 ohm impedance), VSD3s (40 ohm impedance), and GR07s (51 ohm impedance).  The headphone output impedance on the R2R 11 is 2 ohm, so I'm assuming most IEMs would be okay.
> 
> EDIT: I generally kept the volume knob around 8 o'clock when listening to IEMs



Thanks, I spoke to them about it.    I have ordered a custom version with 0dB gain and high gain (+12dB?)  of the R2R11. 

Should be great for my Andros and Spartans and higher gain should handle my Sennheisers.


----------



## Anaz

teainhaler said:


> Thanks, I spoke to them about it.    I have ordered a custom version with 0dB gain and high gain (+12dB?)  of the R2R11.
> 
> Should be great for my Andros and Spartans and higher gain should handle my Sennheisers.



Congrats - I'm sure you'll enjoy your IEMs on the R2R 11   
(btw, I think the standard configuration is low gain = 0 db and high gain = +12 db)


----------



## Zigba

Hey guys, has anyone here tried the R2R 11 paired with HD800's? I should be getting my R2R 11 today, but am just curious if someone has tried this pairing and what your impressions are. Thanks so much for the discussion here you definitely convinced me to give this unit a try!


----------



## ctaxxxx

I'm curious to see how much the warm setting influences the HD800. Has anyone tried this yet? I don't exactly have bright headphones.



> *Setting the R2R 11 with warmer sound flavor ?
> *Push into two jumpers in the points can let the  sound warmer for match the bright headphone. (Please operate while the unit power off, and pull off the power cable if you want to remove the top cover board ).


----------



## Leopanda

Autostart said:


> Received my R2R 11 this weekend so my use is limited. I have it running R2R 11>MJ2>LCD-2 and Fostex TH-X00 Ebony. I will leave this short and sweet in by saying.... The R2R 11 turned my Massdrop Fostex Ebony's into LCD-2's and the LCD-2's the same advancements but escalated the soundstage and definition just that much more; they're displaying great characteristics while maintaining that neutral sound flavor that Audeze is known for. I believe the dac to be far superior in the NFB and R2R then the amp. Not that the amp is bad, but you have to understand I amp A - B'ing with a MJ2 with Amperex tubes.
> 
> Given I have the choice to listen to either the Fostex's of LCD-2's and I hate to say that I most;y rode out with the Fostex's all weekend. After dinner I broke out the LCD-2's and boy, oh boy........



Recieved TH-X00 Ebony's this week and ordered AGD R2R 11 today. This is my first time upgrade from onboard laptop audio, so I am a bit scared these two expencieve pieces won't part well with each other. Could you please tell me more about your impressions on them!


----------



## Zigba

Autostart said:


> Received my R2R 11 this weekend so my use is limited. I have it running R2R 11>MJ2>LCD-2 and Fostex TH-X00 Ebony. I will leave this short and sweet in by saying.... The R2R 11 turned my Massdrop Fostex Ebony's into LCD-2's and the LCD-2's the same advancements but escalated the soundstage and definition just that much more; they're displaying great characteristics while maintaining that neutral sound flavor that Audeze is known for. I believe the dac to be far superior in the NFB and R2R then the amp. Not that the amp is bad, but you have to understand I amp A - B'ing with a MJ2 with Amperex tubes.
> 
> Given I have the choice to listen to either the Fostex's of LCD-2's and I hate to say that I most;y rode out with the Fostex's all weekend. After dinner I broke out the LCD-2's and boy, oh boy........



I feel the same way that you do about the R2R. I ran the RCA outs to my Lexicon RV-8 and although not a dedicated headphone amp it is clearly superior to the R2R amp. I have never heard my music sound so beautiful on HD800's. It is incredibly detailed, yet warm and enjoyable. This dac is amazing and has me thinking about the R2. Anyone who says a dac doesn't make a difference is just plain wrong, this thing has completely transformed my headphones and my opinions.


----------



## JKDJedi

http://www.audio-gd.com/Shipment.htm <------------------- If you just ordered one see if you can find your name in there, I did! Funny how they list all the buyers and what they got.


----------



## Leopanda

JKDJedi said:


> http://www.audio-gd.com/Shipment.htm <------------------- If you just ordered one see if you can find your name in there, I did! Funny how they list all the buyers and what they got.



I'm not on the list as I ordered from a local shop that have R2R 11 at around $390. They also have a 10-day return period, so I would be able to get NFB-11.28 if i don't like the sound of R2R 11.


----------



## bunkbail

Zigba said:


> I feel the same way that you do about the R2R. I ran the RCA outs to my Lexicon RV-8 and although not a dedicated headphone amp it is clearly superior to the R2R amp. I have never heard my music sound so beautiful on HD800's. It is incredibly detailed, yet warm and enjoyable. This dac is amazing and has me thinking about the R2. Anyone who says a dac doesn't make a difference is just plain wrong, this thing has completely transformed my headphones and my opinions.


Second this. I use the R2R-11 with another head amp (Gustard H10), the SQ improved tenfold. The DAC section is much, much better than of my Chord Mojo, everything sounds so detailed and real. This is from someone who previously preferred Mojo to the R2R-11 as a dacamp combo. Also with Schiit Eitr, the resolution, layering, separation and imaging of the R2R-11 were taken to another whole new level.


----------



## bgbkt

Wait. So amp on R2R 11 is subpar compared to other in similar price range??


----------



## bunkbail

bgbkt said:


> Wait. So amp on R2R 11 is subpar compared to other in similar price range??


I'm not saying that, because there is no way we can test the amp section on its own. But I can assure you that the DAC section is surely a great one.


----------



## JKDJedi

bgbkt said:


> Wait. So amp on R2R 11 is subpar compared to other in similar price range??


From reviews of these amps, I highly doubt it, these are maticulousy put together with top notch components with no compramise.


----------



## Zigba

bgbkt said:


> Wait. So amp on R2R 11 is subpar compared to other in similar price range??



I wouldn't say that at all. I would say that it is quite spectacular considering the price. I am not so much lamenting the amp here as praising the DAC.


----------



## tgh5000

Hi! I currently don't own any amp. I used Magni 3 for a brief period, and didn't like the paring with my HD 600. So sold it. I fed the output from my Macbook Pro to Magni. There was no DAC. 

Now I am looking for an amp again, and confused between NFB 11.28, Schiit Jotunheim and the Schiit Stack. What do you think pairs well with HD 600? Specially which aspect of sound get influenced by which amp? Thanks.


----------



## Jerda

All good setup, if you like more a bit warmer sound you can get the stack or the r2r11


----------



## alota

Jerda said:


> All good setup, if you like more a bit warmer sound you can get the stack or the r2r11


I think you're same person of il gazebo audiofilo. You tried the amp with spirit labs headphone or mrspeakers? In case i send to you a pm. Thank you


----------



## CJG888

I’m having trouble using my R2R-11 with my iMac running Audirvana+. It hangs up on “Initializing audio device”. Any ideas?


----------



## CJG888

It works perfectly via co-ax...


----------



## FredA (Dec 17, 2017)

CJG888 said:


> I’m having trouble using my R2R-11 with my iMac running Audirvana+. It hangs up on “Initializing audio device”. Any ideas?


Try a cheap usb cable. The amanero (and my singxer f-1) can be fussy with upmarket usb cables.

I often have to do a couple of attempts before it's works. After that, you are OK to go and you won't  have any problem unless you disconnect audirvana by pressing stop.


----------



## mirror_w

If anyone who has upgraded from their r2r 11 to r2r 1 or 7 is still here, would be really grateful to hear impressions in comparison to the budget model.


----------



## JKDJedi




----------



## unclebrudy

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm curious to see how much the warm setting influences the HD800. Has anyone tried this yet? I don't exactly have bright headphones.


While you _*should*_ try it for yourself, in my opinion that jumper setting sounds like absolute junk, at least for this unit. It simply tapers the highs way too damn much and that's an interpretation of "warm" I guess. I found no benefit or scenario I'd use it.


----------



## James35 (Dec 18, 2017)

I cannot find this answer anywhere. Can the nfb11 / nfb 11.28 / R2R 11 power passive 5" bookshelf speakers?  Seems like the Fixed position might work but would not have volume control so that is not really a solution.
I have good hearing and all of the powered monitors I've tested have a hiss (even without any inputs connected).  So I'm hoping that an Audio-GD unit + passive speakers will be hiss free.


----------



## JKDJedi

James35 said:


> I cannot find this answer anywhere. Can the nfb11 / nfb 11.28 / R2R 11 power passive 5" bookshelf speakers?  Seems like the Fixed position might work but would not have volume control so that is not really a solution.
> I have good hearing and all of the powered monitors I've tested have a hiss (even without any inputs connected).  So I'm hoping that if I get an Audio-GD unit + passive speakers will be hiss free.


Maybe invest in powered speakers? For the money, you'd probably find something good.


----------



## James35

James35 said:


> I cannot find this answer anywhere. Can the nfb11 / nfb 11.28 / R2R 11 power passive 5" bookshelf speakers?  Seems like the Fixed position might work but would not have volume control so that is not really a solution.
> I have good hearing and all of the powered monitors I've tested have a hiss (even without any inputs connected).  So I'm hoping that if I get an Audio-GD unit + passive speakers will be hiss free.





JKDJedi said:


> Maybe invest in powered speakers? For the money, you'd probably find something good.



As I mentioned, all of the powered monitors I've tested have a hiss (even without any inputs connected). I currently have JBL LSR305's.


----------



## JKDJedi

James35 said:


> As I mentioned, all of the powered monitors I've tested have a hiss (even without any inputs connected). I currently have JBL LSR305's.


Gotcha, any of the these amps will work then. Preamp out and just use the volume control. Think that's how it works. So basically you'd just be using the dac portion of the amp and the speakers would just power themselves. And you'd have a good little unit for your future headphone collection!


----------



## James35

I'm getting rid of the JBL LSR305's because the hiss gets old when you sit in front of it all day. (I should never have posted that because you are getting off topic now.)  Let me repeat the important part of the question:
Does anyone know the answer to this?  *Can the nfb11 / nfb 11.28 / R2R 11 power passive 5" bookshelf speakers? * Seems like the Fixed position might work but would not have volume control so that is not really a solution.


----------



## bunkbail

James35 said:


> I'm getting rid of the JBL LSR305's because the hiss gets old when you sit in front of it all day. (I should never have posted that because you are getting off topic now.)  Let me repeat the important part of the question:
> Does anyone know the answer to this?  *Can the nfb11 / nfb 11.28 / R2R 11 power passive 5" bookshelf speakers? * Seems like the Fixed position might work but would not have volume control so that is not really a solution.


I don't have the NFB11, but the R2R-11 has pretty high noise floor compared to other DAC/amps and I'm even getting some hiss on my KZ ZS6 IEM when turning the volume knob to the max.


----------



## JKDJedi

I'm Impressed. It really does sound...good! #JustGotEm


----------



## ctaxxxx

unclebrudy said:


> While you _*should*_ try it for yourself, in my opinion that jumper setting sounds like absolute junk, at least for this unit. It simply tapers the highs way too damn much and that's an interpretation of "warm" I guess. I found no benefit or scenario I'd use it.



I'm think about buying the TH-900's again, so I might. Sounds like it makes them more dark than warm though.


----------



## JKDJedi

ANybody using the Audio-GD with Tidal? Tidal just plays one track and stops at a pause, and just with this amp...dam it. Thought it was gonna be a smooth ride here.


----------



## bunkbail

JKDJedi said:


> ANybody using the Audio-GD with Tidal? Tidal just plays one track and stops at a pause, and just with this amp...dam it. Thought it was gonna be a smooth ride here.


Change the sample rate to 44100/16 in the settings and see if the issue persists or not.


----------



## JKDJedi

bunkbail said:


> Change the sample rate to 44100/16 in the settings and see if the issue persists or not.


Bingo..wow. Audio-GD doesn't like the Master setting then.. Is it the MQA it doesn't support or just a known glitch?


----------



## bunkbail

JKDJedi said:


> Bingo..wow. Audio-GD doesn't like the Master setting then.. Is it the MQA it doesn't support or just a known glitch?


I had the same problem the last time I use the Amanero USB, I fixed it by using ASIO Bridge in order to use other settings than 44100/16. I use a USB to SPDIF converter now (Schiit Eitr) so I don't know if using ASIO Bridge longer helps or not. You can try it if you want.


----------



## JKDJedi

bunkbail said:


> I had the same problem the last time I use the Amanero USB, I fixed it by using ASIO Bridge in order to use other settings than 44100/16. I use a USB to SPDIF converter now (Schiit Eitr) so I don't know if using ASIO Bridge longer helps or not. You can try it if you want.


I'll try that! Thanks!!


----------



## Autostart

bunkbail said:


> I don't have the NFB11, but the R2R-11 has pretty high noise floor compared to other DAC/amps and I'm even getting some hiss on my KZ ZS6 IEM when turning the volume knob to the max.



Strange! I have zero hissing at ANY volume on my R2R 11. Let's just say you had a little black noise, which it doesn't, or at least mine doesn't. But this dac amp combo hits harder than anything I would buy, or recommend to a friend for the money. I truly think AGD is undersold and overlooked by most. 

The R2R>MJ2>LCD-X gave new meaning to music. It was like I heard all the songs I've heard for years for the first time. Some were so detailed and transparent that you hear things not meant to be heard. Sometime enjoyable, and sometimes not. 

When I first received my R2R 11 I enjoyed it so much that I contacted AGD and inquired about the R2R 1 thinking about if it can get even better.... hey, why not. Kingwa, emailed me himself and refused to sell me the R2R 1 at that time. Wouldn't even give me a quote. He stated, " leave on for 14 days - try and get back to me. There aren't many companies that would refuse more sales. This email I received from Kingwa gave me the feeling of confidence and he was right 100%. Not only does Kingwa believe in his product, I do as well.


----------



## JKDJedi

Well roll me up a fat joint...I just figured it out. Looked closely into Tidal Settings, Sound Output, Amanero Driver Settings, and saw that Exclusive Mode and Passthrough MQA were checked but the Force Volume box was grayed out. Went into Windows Sound, Playback, Digital Output Amanero, Supported formats, and noticed that 48 kHz was the only one on as Supported! I clicked on every single box! highest is 192kHz. And in advanced choose the highest setting of 32 bit 384000 Hz. Tidal now allows me to check off Force Volume! And all is Golden now... man, my little drama is over  @bunkbail  Dude thanks for your time, I was checking into getting that converter but decided to check my PC one more time.


----------



## bunkbail

JKDJedi said:


> Well roll me up a fat joint...I just figured it out. Looked closely into Tidal Settings, Sound Output, Amanero Driver Settings, and saw that Exclusive Mode and Passthrough MQA were checked but the Force Volume box was grayed out. Went into Windows Sound, Playback, Digital Output Amanero, Supported formats, and noticed that 48 kHz was the only one on as Supported! I clicked on every single box! highest is 192kHz. And in advanced choose the highest setting of 32 bit 384000 Hz. Tidal now allows me to check off Force Volume! And all is Golden now... man, my little drama is over  @bunkbail  Dude thanks for your time, I was checking into getting that converter but decided to check my PC one more time.


Cool man, glad you got it sorted now!


----------



## bunkbail

Autostart said:


> When I first received my R2R 11 I enjoyed it so much that I contacted AGD and inquired about the R2R 1 thinking about if it can get even better.... hey, why not. Kingwa, emailed me himself and refused to sell me the R2R 1 at that time. Wouldn't even give me a quote. He stated, " leave on for 14 days - try and get back to me. There aren't many companies that would refuse more sales. This email I received from Kingwa gave me the feeling of confidence and he was right 100%. Not only does Kingwa believe in his product, I do as well.


Yeah sometimes I wonder how things are going to get better than this. I'm so curious of the performance R2R 1/2 and hopefully somebody can compare them to the DAC section of the R2R 11.


----------



## alota

received my r2r15 i ear the click only when the first song starts. between one track and other all good. so i think that when amanero change configuration(bit and frequency)


----------



## unclebrudy

alota said:


> received my r2r15 i ear the click only when the first song starts. between one track and other all good. so i think that when amanero change configuration(bit and frequency)


That's my exact experience as well. I typically use Fidelify when I'm not in the mood to hear the (admittedly tiny) pop during sample rate changes, but for the most part Tidal HiFi isn't too problematic unless it's a really random playlist of mine.


----------



## JKDJedi

unclebrudy said:


> That's my exact experience as well. I typically use Fidelify when I'm not in the mood to hear the (admittedly tiny) pop during sample rate changes, but for the most part Tidal HiFi isn't too problematic unless it's a really random playlist of mine.


  yup same here..hit and miss with Tidal HiFi playlists , they just got an update so maybe a fix (wishful thinking) I unplugged all my usb cables and reinstalled them to different ports and so far so good, so far.


----------



## unclebrudy

JKDJedi said:


> yup same here..hit and miss with Tidal HiFi playlists , they just got an update so maybe a fix (wishful thinking) I unplugged all my usb cables and reinstalled them to different ports and so far so good, so far.


You know, now that you've mentioned it I haven't listened to Tidal HiFi since that recent update. I remember the application asking me to restart and then I got lost in a Spotify black hole that day.

To be fair, both my iFi nano iOne and Soekris DAC1101 _do_ also emit tiny pops when I switch sample rates, especially when it's from a non-Tidal master track to a master.


----------



## JKDJedi

And how long does it take these amps to burn in? #anxious


----------



## Jerda

2 weeks always on at least


----------



## FredA

JKDJedi said:


> And how long does it take these amps to burn in? #anxious


Audio-gd states 125 hours. The discrete dac boards take time. Even much more with the r2r 7.


----------



## FredA (Dec 21, 2017)

James35 said:


> I'm getting rid of the JBL LSR305's because the hiss gets old when you sit in front of it all day. (I should never have posted that because you are getting off topic now.)  Let me repeat the important part of the question:
> Does anyone know the answer to this?  *Can the nfb11 / nfb 11.28 / R2R 11 power passive 5" bookshelf speakers? * Seems like the Fixed position might work but would not have volume control so that is not really a solution.


No it can't. At least, i would certainly not recommend it. If so, you would use the variable mode. It probably can play but you will most likely damage your dac/amp. Buy a Precison 3 and live happily ever after. If you use your dac/amp as pre, be sure to deactivate the fixed mode (see user manual) to avoid outputting max volume by accident.


----------



## James35 (Dec 21, 2017)

FredA, THANK YOU very much for that information. I appreciated it. 
I wonder what Audio-GD was thinking with the fixed mode. What purpose does it serve?


----------



## unclebrudy (Dec 22, 2017)

James35 said:


> FredA, THANK YOU very much for that information. I appreciated it.
> I wonder what Audio-GD was thinking with the fixed mode. What purpose does it serve?


There are many uses for many people regarding fixed and variable outs - I'll give you mine for example(s).

*Fixed* mode is just that - fixed line output that is not affected by the AGD's volume knob, typically around ~2vrms like many standalone DACs. I use fixed when outputting to my Little Dot MKII, and use the MKII's volume control. I use *Variable* when outputting to my powered speakers. My speakers have a volume control, but they are inconvenient to reach for (and I lost the remote, but that's a different story) and using the AGD as a preamp (i.e. - its volume knob for control) is tons more convenient. I also used to have it split to a power amp I was using for a previous set of unpowered speakers - same thing, preamp volume control, except in this case the power amp didn't have a volume control so it was a black and white need.

While you _can_ use *Variable* out in conjunction with another amp that has its own volume control, you'll introduce clipping if you turn the AGD's volume pot past ~halfway, at least in my experience. On my NFB-15 and previously owned NFB-11's and R2R 11, 12 o'clock on the pot was pretty close to the same volume as *Fixed* out, and there's distortion and clipping too far past that. Plus, two volume controls for one output is pretty redundant.


----------



## JaMo (Dec 22, 2017)

James35 said:


> I wonder what Audio-GD was thinking with the fixed mode. What purpose does it serve?



The fixed mode is for the device to act as a regular dac, a standard source level dac, used with preamp and power amps. Under some conditions even used to active speakers (power amped) where the volume are adjusted on the speakers.(rare though)

/Jan


----------



## alota

James35 said:


> FredA, THANK YOU very much for that information. I appreciated it.
> I wonder what Audio-GD was thinking with the fixed mode. What purpose does it serve?


Fixed mode is just a dac i think


----------



## tauceti

Hi,

does it make sense to invest in the R2R 11 if I already have the NFB-11.28? Is it worth the extra money? Do I notice a big difference? I am very happy with the NFB-11 right now but am thinking to test the R2R world. Thinking about a R2R 2 is also very interesting but then i need a C-2 and that will be ca 1300$ or more...and for only headphone/desktop use I think these 2 much more bigger and heavier devices are too much. I wouldn't need that power? Would you agree on this?
Perhaps also wait until a new revision of the R2R-11 will get out in perhaps 1 or 2 years and then try it out. Hopefully then without the popping noises etc. Btw. didn't notice these noises with the NFB-11.
Thanks


----------



## JaMo

tauceti said:


> does it make sense to invest in the R2R 11 if I already have the NFB-11.28? Is it worth the extra money? Do I notice a big difference?



I should say Yes. The R2R-11 is an excellent choice to try out the "R2R domain". It is a very mature sounding dac that can handle DSD along with other quality formats. It is very low dollars for its true performance. I also have both (11.28 and R2R-11) and they are different. I will not sell any of them.
Right now I use the R2R-11 as dac (fixed volume) feeding my speaker setup, along with other dacs for comparisonand it matches the higher gears "too good"I think. The 11.28 is a work headphone and dac+pre (Variable volume)  to a small poweramp-speaker setup.
/Jan


----------



## bunkbail (Dec 22, 2017)

James35 said:


> FredA, THANK YOU very much for that information. I appreciated it.
> I wonder what Audio-GD was thinking with the fixed mode. What purpose does it serve?


Fixed mode is line level mode where you only use the DAC section, bypassing the amp section all together. Or at least that's what I thought.


tauceti said:


> Hi,
> 
> does it make sense to invest in the R2R 11 if I already have the NFB-11.28? Is it worth the extra money? Do I notice a big difference? I am very happy with the NFB-11 right now but am thinking to test the R2R world. Thinking about a R2R 2 is also very interesting but then i need a C-2 and that will be ca 1300$ or more...and for only headphone/desktop use I think these 2 much more bigger and heavier devices are too much. I wouldn't need that power? Would you agree on this?
> Perhaps also wait until a new revision of the R2R-11 will get out in perhaps 1 or 2 years and then try it out. Hopefully then without the popping noises etc. Btw. didn't notice these noises with the NFB-11.
> Thanks


@givemetacos has both (NFB11 & R2R11) or used to have both, and he said he is struggling to notice a difference between both using Vahalla 2 as amp. Maybe you can chime in, @givemetacos ?


----------



## alota (Dec 22, 2017)

Trying with my kz-6. no hum or noise. by the way the kz-6 sounds really good with this amplifier.
i´m waiting an otg microusb to usb b cable. i want to see if amanero made a click with android


----------



## bunkbail

alota said:


> Trying with my kz-6. no hum or noise. by the way the kz-6 sounds really good with this amplifier.
> i´m waiting an otg microusb to usb b cable. i want to see if amanero made a click with android


I just turned the volume knob to the max, it surely made some hiss with my KZ ZS6, my guess is its around 40-50 db. My friend did the same test with ZS6 on Magni 3 and Emotiva BasX A-100 (connected to a Spring L3 KTE dac), both have the same hiss. Both ECP DSHA-0 and Liquid Crimson had perfectly black background at full volume.


----------



## alota

bunkbail said:


> I just turned the volume knob to the max, it surely made some hiss with my KZ ZS6, my guess is its around 40-50 db. My friend did the same test with ZS6 on Magni 3 and Emotiva BasX A-100 (connected to a Spring L3 KTE dac), both have the same hiss. Both ECP DSHA-0 and Liquid Crimson had perfectly black background at full volume.


you´re right. at max the hiss is audible but i think it´s not conveniente to listen at max level.but this amplifier is designed for normal headphones.just for curiosity: how much the ecp and cavalli?


----------



## bunkbail

alota said:


> you´re right. at max the hiss is audible but i think it´s not conveniente to listen at max level.but this amplifier is designed for normal headphones.just for curiosity: how much the ecp and cavalli?


No one should listen at full volume, its just to show the noise floor of the amp because some people with very sensitive IEMs or speakers might wanna know that. DSHA-0 is a prototype and there are only 3 units exist in this world. My friend got it like for $2000 used. Liquid Crimson was around $3000 but its super rare even though I can see its price to go only down now that Cavalli is gone.


----------



## alota

bunkbail said:


> No one should listen at full volume, its just to show the noise floor of the amp because some people with very sensitive IEMs or speakers might wanna know that. DSHA-0 is a prototype and there are only 3 units exist in this world. My friend got it like for $2000 used. Liquid Crimson was around $3000 but its super rare even though I can see its price to go only down now that Cavalli is gone.


so for a 340€ not bad


----------



## bunkbail

alota said:


> so for a 340€ not bad


Yeah of course, not bad at all. In fact the R2R 11 is so good that I'm listening to music at all times (never really into music as much as this before).


----------



## alota

bunkbail said:


> Yeah of course, not bad at all. In fact the R2R 11 is so good that I'm listening to music at all times (never really into music as much as this before).


mine is 15, slightly different. still under running and i´m waiting to buy a decent headphone but as first contact and after tried some stuffs(not expensive high-end but decent stuffs)i´m more and more convinced that the quality with low price is possible.
i had in the past another audio-gd balanced with wolfson dac(i don´t remember the name, was 10 something...), really good sound


----------



## coklatua

Hi. Right now my HD6XX is on their way to me. 
Right now I'm deciding between NFB 11.28 or R2R 11.
This is my first dac/amp so Im very noob about the sound sounding. Lol.. 
Along with HD6XX that is coming, I also have KZ ZS5 which I considered it as very bright Iems. 
My taste in music is very wide. 
I listen from rock, pop, alternative, edm/hip hop, acoustic, soundtracks to some orchestra music like Joe Hisaishi.
Anything I find it good I'll listen to them. 
So which I should choose?
Ive emailed Kingwa and he said if I don't know to choose he recommends the NFB 11 because it is cheaper and have more options to adjust the sound. 
But, after reading this thread, more people prefer the R2R11 I guess.. 
So, help me master..


----------



## JaMo

@coklatua 

No master but anyway..

You should add TCXO if choosing the 11.28. That said the price for them (R2R-11 and 11.28) are equal (350 US$). 

Both will serve You very well,  crisp and clean (.28) or more "true and soulful" (R2R).

/Jan


----------



## coklatua

JaMo said:


> @coklatua
> 
> No master but anyway..
> 
> ...


Sorry noob here, what is TCXO?


----------



## tauceti

I couldn't resist and ordered now also the r2r. I am excited if I will notice any difference. My ears are not the best 
Nevertheless the NFB-11 is great.


----------



## JaMo

TCXO stand for Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator. It is the "heart" of the dac if You like.. It is very important to have a stable XO to acheive high quality performance from a digital circuit. The TCXO can give a slight clearer background and more "air" in the presentation. The difference is small but it is fully noticeable in A-B tests under some conditions. I think 20US$ are peanuts to save for holding back the performance of the ES9028 pro-chip.

/Jan


----------



## coklatua

JaMo said:


> TCXO stand for Temperature Compensated Crystal Oscillator. It is the "heart" of the dac if You like.. It is very important to have a stable XO to acheive high quality performance from a digital circuit. The TCXO can give a slight clearer background and more "air" in the presentation. The difference is small but it is fully noticeable in A-B tests under some conditions. I think 20US$ are peanuts to save for holding back the performance of the ES9028 pro-chip.
> 
> /Jan


Okay, thanks for the info.
I think I've made my mind.
I'm going to pull the trigger on the R2R 11.


----------



## givemetacos

bunkbail said:


> Fixed mode is line level mode where you only use the DAC section, bypassing the amp section all together. Or at least that's what I thought.
> 
> @givemetacos has both (NFB11 & R2R11) or used to have both, and he said he is struggling to notice a difference between both using Vahalla 2 as amp. Maybe you can chime in, @givemetacos ?



Ah, I've been summoned. Sorry for the delay, I have been out of town for a bit. But I thought I would share my thoughts. So I currently own an NFB-11 (pre-11.28, I believe the 9018 Sabre chip) and the R2R 11. Both have TCXO upgrade. I have not heard an NFB-11.28. I want to preface that I approach sonic differences from a more conservative stand-point than most people in this forum. I do a ton of volume-matched listening, probably a few hours every week on most my gear. I use a multi-meter and sound level meter for careful matching. It is tedious and I really don't enjoy it, but I do it to keep myself in check as well as practice critical listening and learn to temper expectations. For headphones, I will usually test source differences on HD800, but sometimes I will use my Auteur, Atticus or HD6XX as well. That said, here are my impressions:

When I compare NFB-11 vs R2R 11 DACs only, I run both line outs to my Magni 3 and/or Valhalla 2. I have a Macbook that can output multiple audio sources simultaneously and I have an A/B switch to I can listen to the same headphone off one amp that is connect to both DACs and flip back and forth with no disruption in music. When I do this, I can't tell the 2 DACs apart. I would absolutely fail a blind test. Now, in purely subjective experience, I think maybe I feel like R2R 11 is a little smoother than NFB-11, but again, I know I would fail a blind test. I know people tend to say R2R 11 is warmer than NFB-11, but that is not something I hear from the DACs alone.

When I compraed NFB-11 and R2R 11's DAC+amp sections, there are more noticeable differences. In this case, the R2R 11 sounds more full and warm compared to NFB-11. Because I can't tell the DACs apart, I attribute the differences to the amp sections. I know both NFB-11.28 and R2R 11 both got a significant power transformer upgrade when they released in the summer, and I have heard from others that they believe that alone made a bigger upgrade difference over the DAC chips themselves. I would tend to agree with this assessment. Therefore, I would deduce that the NFB-11.28 and R2R 11 would be nearly equivalent to each other, with perhaps a slight and subtle change in sound presentation due to DAC implementations, but not enough that I would think one would be "better" than the other. I also think many people would fail a blind test telling them apart. Though I personally don't consider blind tests to be the final word in sonic differences and think there are subjective experiences that are real but hard to pick out in blind testing. But I also think failing blind testing puts into perspective how small sonic differences should be considered.

That said, I actually ended up buying a vintage Theta DSPro basic II R2R DAC. It is much older than the R2R 11, but I tend to prefer it as a DAC more than R2R 11. I think I can hear more subtle differences in A/B testing and think it does better with staging and instrument separation. Not a huge difference, but there's something about it that I keep preferring. From all the other Theta owners I have talked to, we all tend to really like the value you get out of them. I know they were like $2k+ brand new, but they go for similar prices as NFB-11 and R2R 11 these days. I would tend to recommend a used Theta for people that are interested in hearing the R2R sound, but these are DACs only, no amp so that's a consideration. However, many of them like mine are also balanced DACs in case you ever want to consider balanced options in the future. 

Hope that helps. For people that already own an NFB-11, I personally don't think the R2R 11 is a pure upgrade and more just sidegrade. I don't think it is worth owning both. I only bought both for comparisons reasons and am planning on selling at least one or both soon. I definitely think if you are settled in your headphones and you are focusing on DAC/amp upgrades, it would be better to make a bigger tier jump up to something like Amethyst, Soekris, Gumby, etc. if you already have an NFB-11.


----------



## JaMo (Dec 25, 2017)

Hi @givemetacos,

I think You are a bit beside track here. It's hard to compare a specific design ..and test another. I know You was asked.. The NFB-11 was/is based on the ES9018 as You correctly mensioned in Your review. It is also equipped with a completely different USB interface (VIA Envy chip based called USB32). The NFB-11.28 is based on the ES9028 Pro chip and has the Amanero Combo384 USB  interface. Both the AmaneroCombo and the ES9028 has higher specs than their predecessors. The -11 and 11.28 are different animals in some way. I wonder what music material You tested with and how You fed the dacs. (USB, Toslink, SPDIF?)

The quality of the tested material is essential to push the performance to its limits where You really can give verdicts. If played material is of average/mediocre quality it will never get to those boundaries. Most people are listening to compressed more or less lossy material and it can sound good though. To get the real (highest) performance from the gear, feed it to with DSD and higher resolutions of PCM with known excellent recordings.

Well if Your listening is mainly on mid or low res material, You should get a forgiving chain for reproduction. The dilemma is to get a highend gear to handle it all.. Both HQ-material, of course, and still behave decent/forgiving with lower res material.

I appreciate Your review. Most the: ..."but there's something about it that I keep preferring." . All in all, it's subtle and hard to define whats making us like the stuff.

Thanks.

/Jan


----------



## givemetacos

JaMo said:


> Hi @givemetacos,
> 
> I think You are a bit beside track here. It's hard to compare a specific design ..and test another. I know You was asked.. The NFB-11 was/is based on the ES9018 as You correctly mensioned in Your review. It is also equipped with a completely different USB interface (VIA Envy chip based called USB32). The NFB-11.28 is based on the ES9028 Pro chip and has the Amanero Combo384 USB  interface. Both the AmaneroCombo and the ES9028 has higher specs than their predecessors. The -11 and 11.28 are different animals in some way. I wonder what music material You tested with and how You fed the dacs. (USB, Toslink, SPDIF?)
> 
> ...



I completely agree that I can't deduce the exact source components that contribute to the sonic differences I do or do not hear. My point was that testing DACs alone showed very little sonic changes, whereas with using each respective amps it was more clear. So I can only deduce that the amp section has more of an impact to me than the DAC implementation. 

Like I said, I am a more conservative reviewer than most on here. But I will try and give you more of my background so you can judge for yourself. I can tell you testing was done with a combination of 16/44 FLAC or Spotify Premium streaming. And I test from a variety of well regarded mastered material like Radiohead - In Rainbows, Fleetwood Mac - Rumors, Daft Punk - Random Access Memories, Beck - Morning Phase, etc. I listen to most major genres including rock, metal, indie, pop electronic, jazz, classical, OST, hip hop, singer songwriter, acapella, blues, country, etc. I can assure you I take my testing very seriously and start with the highest quality sources I can find. And I use tracks that I listen to extensively for years and have heard across many different systems. Regarding input source connections, I have tested them all. I own a Schiit Eitr as well so I am able to convert USB to spdif and coax and compare different connection types. I have a grad degree in electrical engineering so I often treat these tests like science and am obsessive about getting what I consider to be valid results. 

I'm not exaggerating when I say I do these types of volume-matched A/B testing on average of 3-5 hours a week every single week for about the last year. I often do this type of testing on a near daily basis. I'm also a classically trained musician in piano and guitar and have played in orchestras and symphonic bands throughout primary and secondary school so I am a careful listener and sensitive to things like timbre of instruments.

Hopefully, that clarifies where I am coming from. I want to emphasize that I am not a die hard objectivist. My PhD work involved a lot of perception neuroscience and neuroimaging. I specifically studied how the brain processes external stimuli like visual and audio cues and related that to behavior. I absolutely believe and have seen with my own eyes that our brains respond to auditory cues beyond what is currently accepted as "human audible threshold". I also think blind testing in research settings has its own confounding variables and flaws so I don't reference those as sources of "fact". But I also urge people to temper expectations and understand that there is a large amount of confirmation and expectation biases in this hobby. I encourage people to do as much volume-matched (and blind) A/B testing as possible. I think people would be surprised how much of subjective impressions don't pan out if forced to blind test them. But again, I don't believe blind testing is everything so I do think there are true and audible differences in source gear. I just think many of these differences are small and subtle. And it is important to remember that these are how I personally hear things with my ears. I have no idea how sensitive my ears are to source gear changes compared to others. I would absolutely believe that others have more sensitive hearing than myself. So if others have completely different experiences I would believe that too.


----------



## JaMo (Dec 25, 2017)

Hi again @givemetacos,

You are a highly competent person, no doubt. One must take in the fact that this thread focuses on the 11.28 and the R2R-11. Both are high performers, for the money asked, very high performers. The fact that You compare to a much more expensive dac (Theta) sais alot. The 11.28 and R2R-11 are "teaser products", an invitation to explore the brand (Audio-gd) further...

I can not and will not even try to tell others what they can hear. I am sensitive, with poor sleep, even more so. I know that from testsituations among other listeners and maybe from the years of training with almost uncountable electronic circuit valuations after building them. I absolutely can hear the differences between the two (11.28 TCXO and the R2R11) I feel more with the later.

I think You nailed what it's about by the "..preferring"-phrase. It is subtle and not easy to understand why You feel strong by a certain setup and not with another. Psychoacoustics was a term for it in the late 80's pointing at this stimuli. Back then the research was aimed for "open up" severly autistic and demented patients. At that time they (mainly Japanese scientists) adjusted overtone-/undertone components and found positive reactions. Interesting area, indeed.

Thanks for coming back. Solid.

/Jan


----------



## Renato Fury

The R2R 11 is hot right, but how does this heat change the sound?  Stronger bass? Tremble brighter? Larger soundstage? How would you describe it?


----------



## givemetacos

JaMo said:


> Hi again @givemetacos,
> 
> You are a highly competent person, no doubt. One must take in the fact that this thread focuses on the 11.28 and the R2R-11. Both are high performers, for the money asked, very high performers. The fact that You compare to a much more expensive dac (Theta) sais alot. The 11.28 and R2R-11 are "teaser products", an invitation to explore the brand (Audio-gd) further...
> 
> ...



Yeah I definitely think you might be more sensitive to those changes than I am. I think lots of people are. I tend to have a very adaptable ear in that I don't have any sensitivities to specific frequencies, I can deal with sharp treble like Beyers and HD800, and even headphones I don't initially find pleasing I know if I listen to them extensively I can force myself to get used to them and over time start to enjoy them. I think that adaptability makes my ears less sensitive to small things that might annoy people or stand out as flaws. 

What is it about the R2R 11's sound make you "feel more" than 11.28? Do you have a way of describing that sound? I think I know what you mean, but it is hard to put it into words. 

One of my favorite thoughts on these types of source gear subjective impressions comes from Tyll at the end of his Big Sound experiment. He really summarizes up the the point that blind testing helps you realize how small changes you thought you heard are, but that even if you can't pick them apart blindly they all add up in small ways to your overall experience and together they affect and influence your impressions. 

Anyways, merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone!


----------



## Renato Fury

givemetacos said:


> Yeah I definitely think you might be more sensitive to those changes than I am. I think lots of people are. I tend to have a very adaptable ear in that I don't have any sensitivities to specific frequencies, I can deal with sharp treble like Beyers and HD800, and even headphones I don't initially find pleasing I know if I listen to them extensively I can force myself to get used to them and over time start to enjoy them. I think that adaptability makes my ears less sensitive to small things that might annoy people or stand out as flaws.
> 
> What is it about the R2R 11's sound make you "feel more" than 11.28? Do you have a way of describing that sound? I think I know what you mean, but it is hard to put it into words.
> 
> ...


So are the differences in sound from one to the other not so great? I read comments from people who said the sound of the R2R 11 looked like that of a tube amp.


----------



## givemetacos

Renato Fury said:


> So are the differences in sound from one to the other not so great? I read comments from people who said the sound of the R2R 11 looked like that of a tube amp.



They use that analogy because the R2R 11 is noted to sound smoother compared to NFB-11.28. But if you go back and read my full testing review, I said I can hear that when I compare NFB-11 vs R2R 11 using both DAC+amp together. I personally don't feel the "smooth" feeling comes from the DACs alone because I don't really hear that when I output each DAC to the same amp (Magni 3 or Valhalla 2). Either way, I still stand by my statement that these change are small and subtle and down to preference. I really don't consider R2R 11 to be an "upgrade" to NFB-11.


----------



## Renato Fury

givemetacos said:


> They use that analogy because the R2R 11 is noted to sound smoother compared to NFB-11.28. But if you go back and read my full testing review, I said I can hear that when I compare NFB-11 vs R2R 11 using both DAC+amp together. I personally don't feel the "smooth" feeling comes from the DACs alone because I don't really hear that when I output each DAC to the same amp (Magni 3 or Valhalla 2). Either way, I still stand by my statement that these change are small and subtle and down to preference. I really don't consider R2R 11 to be an "upgrade" to NFB-11.


I did not refer only to the dac but to the whole of the work as a whole, but which of the two do you prefer and why?


----------



## Anaz

coklatua said:


> Hi. Right now my HD6XX is on their way to me.
> Right now I'm deciding between NFB 11.28 or R2R 11.
> This is my first dac/amp so Im very noob about the sound sounding. Lol..
> Along with HD6XX that is coming, I also have KZ ZS5 which I considered it as very bright Iems.
> ...


I listen to an HD 6XX on an R2R 11 and it's wonderful. (I haven't tried the NFB 11.28). The general consensus is that the HD 6XX sounds better through a warmer DAC, so that would be the R2R 11rather than the NFB11.28.


----------



## Renato Fury

Anaz said:


> I listen to an HD 6XX on an R2R 11 and it's wonderful. (I haven't tried the NFB 11.28). The general consensus is that the HD 6XX sounds better through a warmer DAC, so that would be the R2R 11rather than the NFB11.28.


What about bloody pops, does not that upset you ?


----------



## Anaz

Renato Fury said:


> What about bloody pops, does not that upset you ?


The volume of the pops is low and they don't disturb me ... plus, since the pop only happens when the bitrate, etc. changes, I don't hear it often because I mostly listen to whole albums or Apple Music playlists.


----------



## Renato Fury

Anaz said:


> The volume of the pops is low and they don't disturb me ... plus, since the pop only happens when the bitrate, etc. changes, I don't hear it often because I mostly listen to whole albums or Apple Music playlists.


Bitrate or sample rate ?


----------



## Anaz

Renato Fury said:


> Bitrate or sample rate ?


Sorry, sample rate and bit depth, I think. ...I just switched from Apple Music to a Youtube video and the volume of the pop was very low.


----------



## Renato Fury

Anaz said:


> Sorry, sample rate and bit depth, I think. ...I just switched from Apple Music to a Youtube video and the volume of the pop was very low.


I thought it was just the sampling rate, but have you tried using the optical and coaxial inputs ?


----------



## Anaz

Renato Fury said:


> I thought it was just the sampling rate, but have you tried using the optical and coaxial inputs ?


No, I haven't tried other inputs - I read online posts that said the popping sound was present on optical too but to a lesser degree, so I didn't bother.


----------



## Renato Fury

Anaz said:


> No, I haven't tried other inputs - I read online posts that said the popping sound was present on optical too but to a lesser degree, so I didn't bother.


Do you think that this R2R 11 heat can make the sound of hot headphones overly hot ?


----------



## tauceti

Thank you very much @givemetacos for your detailed analysis. Yes I know the R2R is not an upgrade to the nfb 11 but a sidegrade with a more warmer sound. An upgrade would perhaps be the R2R 1.
I will test the R2R 11 when it arrives and check wether I will notice a difference. Thanks!


----------



## Anaz

Renato Fury said:


> Do you think that this R2R 11 heat can make the sound of hot headphones overly hot ?



I don't have a truly "hot" phone (I'm assuming you mean bass-head type low end).  ...However, the bass heavy DT 770 and iBasso IT01 IEMs sound great.


----------



## Renato Fury

Anaz said:


> I don't have a truly "hot" phone (I'm assuming you mean bass-head type low end).  ...However, the bass heavy DT 770 and iBasso IT01 IEMs sound great.


What about the recovery of details, how would you define it?


----------



## coklatua

Anaz said:


> I listen to an HD 6XX on an R2R 11 and it's wonderful. (I haven't tried the NFB 11.28). The general consensus is that the HD 6XX sounds better through a warmer DAC, so that would be the R2R 11rather than the NFB11.28.


Nice.
Right now my R2R 11 is on the way.
Cant wait!


----------



## alota

I agree about teaser product bec


Renato Fury said:


> What about bloody pops, does not that upset you ?


I tried various bit sample rate combination.i use only tidal hifi/master.
Now i have 32 bit and sample rate in maximum. I ear pops only when music starts. With lower combinations i ear pops between tracks


----------



## givemetacos

Renato Fury said:


> I did not refer only to the dac but to the whole of the work as a whole, but which of the two do you prefer and why?





Renato Fury said:


> What about the recovery of details, how would you define it?



I prefer the R2R 11 to my NFB-11 (again, this is pre 11.28). I prefer it because when using both dac/amp combos together I do feel the R2R 11 is a little more full sounding. And I do think it helps to warm the R2R 11 up a bit, but it doesn't get that physically hot. Juts warm. The popping is annoying and the worst on optical input. Detail retrieval is good and what you expect from a rather neutral solid state amp. It is not nearly as detailed as my Valhalla 2 though. 

That said, I personally prefer my Theta DAC + Magni 3 over both my NFB-11 and R2R 11. I actually think Magni 3 is a better amp over the Audio-gds.


----------



## Renato Fury

givemetacos said:


> I prefer the R2R 11 to my NFB-11 (again, this is pre 11.28). I prefer it because when using both dac/amp combos together I do feel the R2R 11 is a little more full sounding. And I do think it helps to warm the R2R 11 up a bit, but it doesn't get that physically hot. Juts warm. The popping is annoying and the worst on optical input. Detail retrieval is good and what you expect from a rather neutral solid state amp. It is not nearly as detailed as my Valhalla 2 though.
> 
> That said, I personally prefer my Theta DAC + Magni 3 over both my NFB-11 and R2R 11. I actually think Magni 3 is a better amp over the Audio-gds.


In the coaxial input also has pop?


----------



## Autostart

Over a month with my R2R 11 and have yet to hear this POP everyone is talking about.


----------



## Renato Fury

Autostart said:


> Over a month with my R2R 11 and have yet to hear this POP everyone is talking about.


16:50, you heard the ****ing pop.


----------



## Autostart

If the ****ing popping bothers you sell the ****ing thing and buy a ****ing piece of Schiit for two ****ing thousand dollars because that's how much you're going to have to spend to get such great ****ing sound.

If you don't ****ing like your R2R 11 there are people just waiting for you to post that ****ing thing for ****ing sale. I myself know someone that well buy that ****ing garbage from you.

STOP COMPLAINING AND MOVE ON FROM THE ****ING POPPING!

Happy Holidays to you and your Pops.


----------



## bunkbail

Autostart said:


> If the ****ing popping bothers you sell the ****ing thing and buy a ****ing piece of Schiit for two ****ing thousand dollars because that's how much you're going to have to spend to get such great ****ing sound.
> 
> If you don't ****ing like your R2R 11 there are people just waiting for you to post that ****ing thing for ****ing sale. I myself know someone that well buy that ****ing garbage from you.
> 
> ...


Be a wise man and add him to your ignore list. I've done that many months ago when he kept on pestering people in this thread with the same shiit over and over again (popping issue).


----------



## Autostart

bunkbail said:


> Be a wise man and add him to your ignore list. I've done that many months ago when he kept on pestering people in this thread with the same shiit over and over again (popping issue).



Oooooooh, so he's had this same popping issue for months!?!?!!? Man, that must be one bada$$ dac / amp combo to have to put up with that ****ing popping.


----------



## FredA

Autostart said:


> Over a month with my R2R 11 and have yet to hear this POP everyone is talking about.


That is because don't listen to pop music.


----------



## bgbkt

bunkbail said:


> Be a wise man and add him to your ignore list. I've done that many months ago when he kept on pestering people in this thread with the same shiit over and over again (popping issue).



I thought I was the only one bothered by his constant repeating comments (either it's about popping or heat). 

If you own one and not satisfied, sell it. If you don't have one and these issues bother you, look somewhere else.


----------



## bunkbail

bgbkt said:


> I thought I was the only one bothered by his constant repeating comments (either it's about popping or heat).
> 
> If you own one and not satisfied, sell it. If you don't have one and these issues bother you, look somewhere else.


I think he is one of those people with low signal-to-noise posts ratio who only posts to increase his post count without contributing anything in the conversation. Even his posts once got deleted by mods because he made some very childish remarks in others debates.


----------



## FredA

A collegue of mine bought one and i'll have a chance to audition it in 2 week. If he does not like it, guess who is gonna pick it up? The way things are going, i will get one pretty soon anyway. It is almost a must have to me. I still can't figure how audio-gd was able to upgrade almost its whole line-up so rapidly. I think it got people at Schiit quite worried.


----------



## bunkbail

FredA said:


> A collegue of mine bought one and i'll have a chance to audition it in 2 week. If he does not like it, guess who is gonna pick it up? The way things are going, i will get one pretty soon anyway. It is almost a must have to me. I still can't figure how audio-gd was able to upgrade almost its whole line-up so rapidly. I think it got people at Schiit quite worried.


I thought you already have its big brother R2R-7?


----------



## Autostart

With all seriousness. I have yet to hear the popping, LIKE I SAID. I mainly listen to Spotify, Pandora and it easy Radio. I also use my gear for audio while playing PC games, YouTube and pretty much anything on the PC.

From my understanding it has to do with changing bit rates from track to track. Again, I've never heard this from my experience. Maybe all the  tracks I listen to are the same bit rate?


----------



## FredA

Most windows versions outputs everything at fixed rate by default.


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> Be a wise man and add him to your ignore list. I've done that many months ago when he kept on pestering people in this thread with the same shiit over and over again (popping issue).


Do you also listen to pop ?


----------



## FredA

bunkbail said:


> I thought you already have its big brother R2R-7?


Yes i do. The 11 would be for office use.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Anyone try the R2R 11 with the Liquid Carbon? I could go for a warmer sound, since I find the R2R 11 pretty neutral. It just adds a warm tint. I know the Mojo to Liquid Carbon was a popular combo. 

I like the idea of NOS filter on the R2R 2, but that's a hefty upgrade price (including the C2 amp).


----------



## Renato Fury




----------



## FredA

Chill man, and buy a Schiit.... Audio-gd is not for you. Life is too short too loose time like this.


----------



## Autostart

Renato Fury said:


>



Where are you located? I will gladly buy the R2R 11 from you for FULL FACE value + shipping. Send me your PayPal info via PM.

Thank you


----------



## Renato Fury (Dec 26, 2017)

FredA said:


> Chill man, and buy a Schiit.... Audio-gd is not for you. Life is too short too loose time like this.


Why Audio-GD is not for me ? Do all products have the much-loved pop ?


Autostart said:


> Where are you located? I will gladly buy the R2R 11 from you for FULL FACE value + shipping. Send me your PayPal info via PM.
> 
> Thank you


I "still" do not own one, but I thought you already had one.


----------



## Renato Fury

Seriously now, I've read some comment that say the R2R 11 has a sound that looks like life, Kingwa himself said it sounded like reality, what does that mean ?


----------



## FredA

@Renato Fury
Audio-gd is for people who value sound quality first. You are way too focused on a quite insignificant detail that should be ignored by most people. And no, not all of their gears have the popping sound. But i assume all the r2r design do. Again just upon changing sampling rate or depth. I practice, at least for me, it is of no importance.

I hope you get rid of that fixation cause it's been going on for quite a while. Life is too short. Take care.


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> Seriously now, I've read some comment that say the R2R 11 has a sound that looks like life, Kingwa himself said it sounded like reality, what does that mean ?


It means with a transparent setup, especially with speakers, you have the illusion of a performance happening just in front of you, especially with well recorded live performance with accurate stereo rendition. That is a trick the r2r 7 can pull in my setup with some specific records. Vocals are particularly convincing. Drums. Pretty much everything.


----------



## Autostart

Renato Fury said:


> Why Audio-GD is not for me ? Do all products have the much-loved pop ?
> 
> I "still" do not own one, but I thought you already had one.



So, you're telling me that you're complaining about a product you don't even own?


----------



## Renato Fury

Autostart said:


> So, you're telling me that you're complaining about a product you don't even own?


I found the perfect amp, so I find out that it has this feature, but maybe @FredA is right, maybe I can get used to pop, maybe it's not even that loud, but answering your question, apparently you did not see the video I sent, just have ears to hear the pop, I do not need to have a product to know its characteristics, be they good or bad.


----------



## FredA (Dec 26, 2017)

Upsampling everything to 352/384 with the r2r 7 brings the popping sound to a level low enough that it becomes a non issue. Using a good software upsampler will improve sound quality as well. It gives you better dynamics.


----------



## Renato Fury

Does anyone here have the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home ? I'd like to know how it sounds in R2R 11.


----------



## cheungtsw

conquerator2 said:


> I'd argue that none of them sound as refined or have the same amount of power available. If you feel they offer the same level of performance, more power to you!



How do you know R2R 11 is better than iFi iOne in the example?  Just wondering??


----------



## Jakuar (Jan 20, 2018)

For people too annoyed by the pop, I found that relaying the audio through Virtual cable (listen to this device -> amanero) almost eliminates all pops and crackles. Not all of them but a lot. I can't hear any audio quality change, all it does is passes the sound through.
You could then also use this https://www.ohl.to/about-audio/audio-softwares/head-fit for crossfeed and eq if you wish. This even further reduces popping but can otherwise be a bit buggy.

edit: replacing the exe with newer savihost http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm (vst2) you can minimize it to tray

edit2: I found Pedalboard2 works much better as the vst host. I'm using it through windows audio, ASIO was a little buggy.


----------



## paldepind

Renato Fury said:


> Does anyone here have the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home ? I'd like to know how it sounds in R2R 11.



I'm wondering about this as well. I'm getting the Amiron Home and I'm not sure if I should go for the R2R 11 or the NFB-11.28. Are there anything about the Amiron that whould make them pair better with one of them in particular?


----------



## tauceti

@Renato Fury i have only the 770 and they sound great with the NFB-11. 
But no one can assure you that you will like the R2R. Everything is personal. As I see you want the R2R go ahead and buy it and stop asking always about the pop and thousand other things. Just buy it. It is not that expensive and you can sell it if you don’t like it. I did the same and just ordered both.


----------



## bgbkt

Just received my R2R 11 yesterday. It's replacing Schiit stack (Magni 3/Mimby 2). I thought this would be lateral move but it sounds like upgrade to me. I've been using Sennheiser HD 6xx and Fostex TH-X00 and compared to Schiit stack, sound is much open and refined. Much better instrument clarity and lush presentation.

In case anyone is wondering, no pop switching between Tidal, Spotify and Youtube.


----------



## Renato Fury (Dec 27, 2017)

tauceti said:


> @Renato Fury i have only the 770 and they sound great with the NFB-11.
> But no one can assure you that you will like the R2R. Everything is personal. As I see you want the R2R go ahead and buy it and stop asking always about the pop and thousand other things. Just buy it. It is not that expensive and you can sell it if you don’t like it. I did the same and just ordered both.


But they are different, they say the Amiron's signature is similar to that of the HD 650, and I do not know how a soft headphone as it will behave with an equally smooth amplifier, as for pop, I'll stop asking questions about it because I realized that your qualities overcome this defect, as well as the other thousand questions, well, no one is forcing you to answer them, neither you nor anyone, but if you think it's cheap then buy one for me, because in the country trash where I live I will have to pay five times what an American would pay. But even then I thank you for the answer, thank you and stay with God. 


bgbkt said:


> Just received my R2R 11 yesterday. It's replacing Schiit stack (Magni 3/Mimby 2). I thought this would be lateral move but it sounds like upgrade to me. I've been using Sennheiser HD 6xx and Fostex TH-X00 and compared to Schiit stack, sound is much open and refined. Much better instrument clarity and lush presentation.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, no pop switching between Tidal, Spotify and Youtube.


Modi 2, Modi 2U or Modi Multibit ?


----------



## FredA (Dec 27, 2017)

bgbkt said:


> Just received my R2R 11 yesterday. It's replacing Schiit stack (Magni 3/Mimby 2). I thought this would be lateral move but it sounds like upgrade to me. I've been using Sennheiser HD 6xx and Fostex TH-X00 and compared to Schiit stack, sound is much open and refined. Much better instrument clarity and lush presentation.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, no pop switching between Tidal, Spotify and Youtube.


Given how well regarded the Mimby is, and the fact that it will sound better after break-in, it makes me even closer to ordering one. God, help me.


----------



## JKDJedi

JaMo said:


> @coklatua
> 
> No master but anyway..
> 
> ...


 Well... Crisp and clean the .28 is... 1.5 weeks into my amp. Now im curious about the R2R, anybody in California or near me want to swap amps?


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> Given how well regarded the Mimby is, and the fact that it will sound better after break-in, it makes me even closer to ordering one. God, help me.


Why do you want one if you already have R2R 11?


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> Why do you want one if you already have R2R 11?


As said earlier, i have the r2r 7, that i use at home. For the office, the r2r 11 would be great.


----------



## Renato Fury

FredA said:


> As said earlier, i have the r2r 7, that i use at home. For the office, the r2r 11 would be great.


And where does Mimby get into this story?


----------



## unclebrudy

I don't know if I'm fueling the fire, but hopefully I can add a little bit to this and settle things a bit.

@Renato Fury , there _is_ a pop, something I've (and many others) mentioned previously in this thread and on a few other ones. I can only vouch for my own setup, which you can see in my signature.

From units I own/have owned from Audio-gd, the following exhibit a _tiny, almost imperceptible pop_ *when playing a track that had a different sample rate than the previous track*: NFB-11.32, 11.32 TCXO, 11.28, 11.28 TCXO, 15, 15.32, 16, R2R 11, R2R 2. This was constant across: straight from PC's onboard USB 2.0, PC's onboard USB 3.0, Schiit Wyrd, Schiit Eitr (as DDC, coax out), iFi nano iOne (as DDC, coax out). This happens when using DirectSound, ASIO, and Wasapi, streaming or local. This is not a unique phenomenon to my Audio-gd units, as my iFi units demoed (aforementioned nano iOne as DAC out, iDSD BL, etc.) also exhibit the tiny pop during sample rate changes.

With that said, here are some scenarios where the pop is absent: If using Spotify, use Fidelify. It locks sample rate to 44kHz. I don't find this absolutely necessary as most of Spotify _is_ 44kHz with some 48 peppered in. Also, listening to complete albums. Unless you have a hodge podge of randomly encoded tracks that together make an album, typically albums are encoded across the same sample rate. Even on Tidal HiFi, only when shuffling (or playing a really random collection of music I've compiled into a playlist) do I encounter a pop when a Master track sneaks in, but more often than not it's a world of 44kHz, meaning pop-free listening. Unless you listen to Pop as stated so eloquently earlier in this thread.

Regarding the operating temperature of the NFB-11.28 and R2R 11 (since this thread is primarily about them), they get warm after a bit of use, but never hot to the touch. In the R2R 11's case, it's arguable that there is a sonic change (for the better, again arguably) when it reaches operating temperature versus cold due to the design of resistors.

If the notion of this _pop_ still bothers you after reading all this, it's time to move on bud. So much other great gear out there to enjoy.


----------



## FredA

Renato Fury said:


> And where does Mimby get into this story?


Just the fact that a person who owned both the Mimby, which is very well reviewed, and the r2r 11, prefers the latter. The Schiit stack cost about the same amount landed. So yet another confirmation of the very high value of the r2r 11. I owned the nfb15 in the past, it would still be a good value today for 350$, although it sold for 210 then. The r2r 11 is better on paper on these aspects: dac implementation, transfo, usb card. So again, that tells me how good the value is. I am not the only one to see this, check the shipments done by audio-gd lately. The r2r 11 is easily their best selling product.


----------



## FredA

Correction: the nfb-11 is not so far behind in sales considering the last 3 reports.


----------



## s2kPanda

Ordered a R2R-11 last night. Damn you 31 pages of reading.


----------



## unclebrudy

s2kPanda said:


> Ordered a R2R-11 last night. Damn you 31 pages of reading.


An informed purchase is the best kind of purchase. Have fun and hope you love it.


----------



## Renato Fury

s2kPanda said:


> Ordered a R2R-11 last night. Damn you 31 pages of reading.


Half of these pages are about pop.


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> Half of these pages are about pop.


I had to really pay attention to hear this infamous...pop. If i didn't know any better it would have gone unnoticed!


----------



## bgbkt

FredA said:


> Given how well regarded the Mimby is, and the fact that it will sound better after break-in, it makes me even closer to ordering one. God, help me.



If you have to choose between Schiit Stack and R2R 11, I would recommend R2R without any hesitation.


----------



## braaam

JKDJedi said:


> I had to really pay attention to hear this infamous...pop. If i didn't know any better it would have gone unnoticed!



Same here. Hardly audible. Listening on low gain at 9 o’ clock volume with easy to drive headphones.


----------



## Renato Fury

bgbkt said:


> If you have to choose between Schiit Stack and R2R 11, I would recommend R2R without any hesitation.


Do you mean Magni 3 and Modi Multibit? Because if it is a lower version of these devices, it would not be a fair comparison.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> I had to really pay attention to hear this infamous...pop. If i didn't know any better it would have gone unnoticed!


If I could give less of a crap about my computer fan's bearings starting to rattle, I doubt I would care about the pops on the R2R. I just hope I am in for a treat considering I have the Magni 3 and Mimby


----------



## Anaz

FredA said:


> Given how well regarded the Mimby is, and the fact that it will sound better after break-in, it makes me even closer to ordering one. God, help me.



Unless you have an amp in mind other than a Magni, watch the following reviews:


----------



## s2kPanda

DMS is a little hype beast, that doesn't even truly review the product fully. He just gives you a flat opinion as to whether you should buy the product and gives it a one off comparison to another. Even Zeos is better and hes an awful reviewer lol.


----------



## bgbkt

Renato Fury said:


> Do you mean Magni 3 and Modi Multibit? Because if it is a lower version of these devices, it would not be a fair comparison.



Yes, I'm comparing it to Magni 3 and Modi 2 Multibit. Mimby is a good DAC, but Magni 3 while powerful sounds very artificial, narrow and compressed compared to R2R 11. I think I'll keep Mimby and pair it with Jotunheim in future to get balanced output. Magni 3 may not stay too long.


----------



## s2kPanda

bgbkt said:


> Yes, I'm comparing it to Magni 3 and Modi 2 Multibit. Mimby is a good DAC, but Magni 3 while powerful sounds very artificial, narrow and compressed compared to R2R 11. I think I'll keep Mimby and pair it with Jotunheim in future to get balanced output. Magni 3 may not stay too long.



How does the magni 3 sound with the R2R-11 Dac?


----------



## FredA (Dec 28, 2017)

Anaz said:


> Unless you have an amp in mind other than a Magni, watch the following reviews:



Just looking at the specs and comparing how each amp section is built, my bet would be that the amp section of the r2r 11 is better. One plus for the magni 3 is the low output impedance. Besides that point, everything else is in favor of the audio-gd. Which is quite normal given the price of each unit. The big bonus with the r2r 11 is the built-in dac, which is unusually good at this price point and is even a bargain as a standalone dac.


----------



## JKDJedi (Dec 29, 2017)

s2kPanda said:


> DMS is a little hype beast, that doesn't even truly review the product fully. He just gives you a flat opinion as to whether you should buy the product and gives it a one off comparison to another. Even Zeos is better and hes an awful reviewer lol.


Zeos is da Bomb..cracks me up, DMS is a cool cat (he almost had to hide when he gave the Fedelio X2 a thumbs down) , both these guys however give these amps (Audio-GD) huge props with huge stamps of approval (Zeos says comparable to the the Shiit Jotunheim when he reviewed the original NFB-11 so these two are...?  Better o.O ?)


----------



## tauceti (Dec 30, 2017)

ok. now I got my R2R 11. Got the Pop when using Deezer in Hifi/Flac mode after each song but it is not really noticable. Wouldn't have even realized it if I had not read about it. So far I am happy with it but have yet to compare it with NFB 11.28. Using AKG K812.
Btw. NFB 11.28 doesn't have the POP.


----------



## FredA

tauceti said:


> ok. now I got my R2R 11. Got the Pop when using Deezer in Hifi/Flac mode after each song but it is not really noticable. Wouldn't have even realized it if I had not read about it. So far I am happy with it but have yet to compare it with NFB 11.28. Using AKG K812.


Let us know, i think it will be my next toy.


----------



## tauceti

Just had a very quick comparison. Don't have that advanced fast line switching @givemetacos has so I had to switch headphones as fast as I could. Listened to some classic and it is indeed very difficult to find any big differences but my feelings say that the NFB.11.28 is more clearer here and the R2R 11 on the other side has more body. Don't know how to say it. So far for classic I like the NFB more but I have to conduct more tests also with other music genres.
Nevertheless I think you won't do anything wrong with either R2R 11 or NFB 11. They both sound great so far.


----------



## YJX94

I've been eyeing audio-gd stuff for a while now and have locked onto the NFB-11 and R2R-11.  I have a K712 Pro which is currently my daily driver which I use for everything at home but I have other cans too and I will get more in the future and also some Planars.  Having trouble deciding between the NFB-11 and R2R-11 atm, what do you guys think is better for pretty much any Dynamic or Planar (aside from HE-6 and K1000)?

Both are future proof since they're both so powerful.


----------



## FredA

YJX94 said:


> I've been eyeing audio-gd stuff for a while now and have locked onto the NFB-11 and R2R-11.  I have a K712 Pro which is currently my daily driver which I use for everything at home but I have other cans too and I will get more in the future and also some Planars.  Having trouble deciding between the NFB-11 and R2R-11 atm, what do you guys think is better for pretty much any Dynamic or Planar (aside from HE-6 and K1000)?
> 
> Both are future proof since they're both so powerful.


I have a set of he-560 driven single-ended (same power as nfb-11 or r2r 11 driven that way) by an nfb-1amp fed by an r2r 7. I think the same headset would probably make the best sub-1K combination with the r2r 11. Beware of built quality with the he-560 and make sure to return them if anything is wrong with the sound. Otherwise, you will be blessed.


----------



## JKDJedi

tauceti said:


> ok. now I got my R2R 11. Got the Pop when using Deezer in Hifi/Flac mode after each song but it is not really noticable. Wouldn't have even realized it if I had not read about it. So far I am happy with it but have yet to compare it with NFB 11.28. Using AKG K812.
> Btw. NFB 11.28 doesn't have the POP.


Please Tell! I'm curious how the 2 compare!


----------



## Renato Fury

tauceti said:


> Just had a very quick comparison. Don't have that advanced fast line switching @givemetacos has so I had to switch headphones as fast as I could. Listened to some classic and it is indeed very difficult to find any big differences but my feelings say that the NFB.11.28 is more clearer here and the R2R 11 on the other side has more body. Don't know how to say it. So far for classic I like the NFB more but I have to conduct more tests also with other music genres.
> Nevertheless I think you won't do anything wrong with either R2R 11 or NFB 11. They both sound great so far.


Burn R2R 11 completely, then come back here and say if you still have the same opinion.


----------



## tauceti

@Renato Fury you are right. I need time to burn them. Still testing both of them. I have to say that I'm very new with all this Hifi stuff so don't take my opinion too serious as I'm not an expert as some of you guys are. I just informed me deeper about DACs the last 4 weeks or so and stumbled about audio-gd by chance. Glad I did as I am very impressed and it outperforms my old Fiio (and also the tested SMSL M6, M8a which are not bad) by far!


----------



## Renato Fury (Dec 31, 2017)

I would like to wish you a Happy New Year and full of POPS for all of you.


----------



## alota

agree happy new year with a lot of pops and fun


----------



## Zigba

Happy New Year guys! Thanks for tipping me off to Audio-GD!


----------



## s2kPanda

Happy New Years, I hate you guys for not having this post set to a private discussion. Now I'm $377.80 lighter.


----------



## Renato Fury

s2kPanda said:


> Happy New Years, I hate you guys for not having this post set to a private discussion. Now I'm $377.80 lighter.


NFB 11.28 or R2R


----------



## JKDJedi

I'm starting to think these take longer than 2 weeks of "always on" to burn in.. just saying.


----------



## FredA

JKDJedi said:


> I'm starting to think these take longer than 2 weeks of "always on" to burn in.. just saying.


Cool down/heat up cycles could help.


----------



## Renato Fury

JKDJedi said:


> I'm starting to think these take longer than 2 weeks of "always on" to burn in.. just saying.


Two weeks straight, no rest?


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> Two weeks straight, no rest?


yup, it's been on since I opened the package.


----------



## givemetacos

tauceti said:


> Just had a very quick comparison. Don't have that advanced fast line switching @givemetacos has so I had to switch headphones as fast as I could. Listened to some classic and it is indeed very difficult to find any big differences but my feelings say that the NFB.11.28 is more clearer here and the R2R 11 on the other side has more body. Don't know how to say it. So far for classic I like the NFB more but I have to conduct more tests also with other music genres.
> Nevertheless I think you won't do anything wrong with either R2R 11 or NFB 11. They both sound great so far.



This is exactly my feelings. They are both great dac/amps and you just can't go wrong with either. I think your impressions sound like how I feel too. And in some ways it might be even a little easier to tell them apart when going back to back with them. But I know that if someone randomly picked one and made me keep just that one and ditch the other and that became my only dac/amp I could use, I would have no idea which of the two I was given and I wouldn't even care because they are both great.


----------



## bgbkt

Has anyone tried connecting iPhone directly to R2R or NFB 11? What cables you have used? I found iConnectivity lightning to USB Type B cable but seeing mixed reviews. Does iPhone recognize external DAC and output digital audio through lightning port?


----------



## Anaz

bgbkt said:


> Has anyone tried connecting iPhone directly to R2R or NFB 11? What cables you have used? I found iConnectivity lightning to USB Type B cable but seeing mixed reviews. Does iPhone recognize external DAC and output digital audio through lightning port?



I would also like to know. I used an *Apple Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter* but could not get my iPhone to acknowledge the R2R 11. (I tried connecting with and without a powered lightning cable).


----------



## Renato Fury (Jan 1, 2018)

givemetacos said:


> This is exactly my feelings. They are both great dac/amps and you just can't go wrong with either. I think your impressions sound like how I feel too. And in some ways it might be even a little easier to tell them apart when going back to back with them. But I know that if someone randomly picked one and made me keep just that one and ditch the other and that became my only dac/amp I could use, I would have no idea which of the two I was given and I wouldn't even care because they are both great.


I ask you the same question I asked @tauceti, was your R2R 11 100% burned ?


----------



## s2kPanda

Renato Fury said:


> Half of these pages are about pop.


Going back and reading your comments. You are the only one who can't seem to get over the pop and keep repeating the same stupid questions over and over to everyone only to feed your post count. You've been blocked before I even reached the end of all the pages. I suggest everyone reading this thread to block him from the conversation because he does not contribute anything positive to the discussion.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Going back and reading your comments. You are the only one who can't seem to get over the pop and keep repeating the same stupid questions over and over to everyone only to feed your post count. You've been blocked before I even reached the end of all the pages. I suggest everyone reading this thread to block him from the conversation because he does not contribute anything positive to the discussion.


Lol! I thought it was just me...what's this pattern called...trolling?


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Lol! I thought it was just me...what's this pattern called...trolling?


Lol, I don't think its trolling. Its more of a pest-like behavior in my opinion. Back to discussion, how long does it usually take before Kingwa actually ships out units from the day of receiving payment. Really getting impatient!


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Lol, I don't think its trolling. Its more of a pest-like behavior in my opinion. Back to discussion, how long does it usually take before Kingwa actually ships out units from the day of receiving payment. Really getting impatient!


About 2 weeks, they have a page on their site on who and what has been shipped too. They build on order, so your getting a fresh unit!


----------



## bgbkt

s2kPanda said:


> how long does it usually take before Kingwa actually ships out units from the day of receiving payment. Really getting impatient!



In my case he shipped in 3 days after receiving payment and it took around 4 days to be here (in US). It was much faster that I expected.


----------



## JKDJedi

bgbkt said:


> In my case he shipped in 3 days after receiving payment and it took around 4 days to be here (in US). It was much faster that I expected.


Aww man..you got lucky then is my guess.


----------



## s2kPanda

bgbkt said:


> In my case he shipped in 3 days after receiving payment and it took around 4 days to be here (in US). It was much faster that I expected.


I guess I gotta be patient since I ordered after Christmas and it's the new year. I wanna ask if you guys prefer the neutral or warm setting with the jumpers? I plan on messing with it but I wanna see how much better it is compared to my Mimby/Magni3 when it gets here hence gathering of opinions.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> I guess I gotta be patient since I ordered after Christmas and it's the new year. I wanna ask if you guys prefer the neutral or warm setting with the jumpers? I plan on messing with it but I wanna see how much better it is compared to my Mimby/Magni3 when it gets here hence gathering of opinions.


The census is to not even bother. The low power setting is warmer compared to the high, so that will make an appreciable difference vs the awful filtering of the highs... I havnt tried it and don't need too, the sound is smooth as can get for the money. Just needs some burn in time, which if your not patient will drive you bonkers. I got the 11.28 and paired with my X2 seems like great pairing, mids are pushed. With this v shaped cans...that's a plus! I exclusively use this amp for my X2 now.


----------



## Renato Fury (Jan 2, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> Going back and reading your comments. You are the only one who can't seem to get over the pop and keep repeating the same stupid questions over and over to everyone only to feed your post count. You've been blocked before I even reached the end of all the pages. I suggest everyone reading this thread to block him from the conversation because he does not contribute anything positive to the discussion.


----------



## Renato Fury

Already a second person who talks about post count counting, what does that mean?


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> Already a second person who talks about post count counting, what does that mean?


You seriously don't know? Seems like you like to jerk people around, not sure if you do it attentially or you just come off that way or what but maybe post something we can use instead of coming off as a child might help. Just a suggestion.


----------



## xkonfuzed

Very intrigued by the R2R 11. Considering buying it as a replacement to my recently-broken LH Labs Geek Out V2 as my main source/amp. Can anyone comment on how it pairs with the HD650's and DT880/250?


----------



## Renato Fury (Jan 2, 2018)

JKDJedi said:


> You seriously don't know? Seems like you like to jerk people around, not sure if you do it attentially or you just come off that way or what but maybe post something we can use instead of coming off as a child might help. Just a suggestion.


I really do not know, please explain to me what this means.


xkonfuzed said:


> Very intrigued by the R2R 11. Considering buying it as a replacement to my recently-broken LH Labs Geek Out V2 as my main source/amp. Can anyone comment on how it pairs with the HD650's and DT880/250?


For the comments I have read and works very well with these HPs, but I have a doubt as to a clarity of the R2R 11, I know it is smaller than the NFB 11.28, but how small, maybe it has 90% of the clarity of the NFB 11.28 ? Maybe the jedi master @JKDJedi will allow me to answer this question where you were the only one who has not blocked me yet.


----------



## tauceti

I am also interested if the iOS lightning output will output digital data? As for the Fiio Q1 Mark II there is a Lightning to USB (to the Fiio) and so I think there it would be a digital signal and the Fiio Q1 Dac converts it. Ok The Fiio is MFI certified...
I think the Apple lightning to Jack cable also has an integrated DAC chip in the cable...


----------



## iamjaymo

Just picked up the R2R 11 and been critically listening for a couple hours now after a 24 hour run-in.  I realize I the unit may require more burn-in but I have to say I am very impressed so far. 

The build quality seems very nice - the volume knob turns with a very nice smoothness and the amp seems solid overall.  This is my first listen to a ladder DAC and it definitely has a different sonic flavor that a DS DAC. 

I could see how people on the “clinical” side of the fence wouldn’t like it.  I doubt I have ever heard mid-range this holographic before.  Notes seem to come out of no where, everywhere…a startling feeling till you get adjusted to it.  Bass is very deep but somewhat less hard-edged, not soft, just more, well, natural sounding.

Utilizing a cheap USB cable straight from a MacPro via Audirvana Plus to my TH-X00 Purple Hearts and the sound is really quite amazing.  Very positive impression so far.


----------



## VilMo

Waiting to receive my R2R 11 by the end of the week and getting really impatient after reading such positive impressions!

Will be comparing the R2R 11 against Marantz HD DAC 1 with modded E-MU Teak and a friend's HE-500.

Sources for testing will be Allo Digione (great SPDIF source in my experience) and ViaBlue coax cable fed by SBooster LPSU, Singxer F1 (SPDIF), and USB input through iFi iSilencer + iFi Nano iUSB3.0 + Forza Twin USB Cable.


----------



## alota

i´ve received the otg cable. when i have time i´ll try with android


----------



## Renato Fury (Jan 3, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> Just picked up the R2R 11 and been critically listening for a couple hours now after a 24 hour run-in.  I realize I the unit may require more burn-in but I have to say I am very impressed so far.
> 
> The build quality seems very nice - the volume knob turns with a very nice smoothness and the amp seems solid overall.  This is my first listen to a ladder DAC and it definitely has a different sonic flavor that a DS DAC.
> 
> ...


I was talking to Kingwa and he said that NFB 11.28 would be better for me since I like EDM more, but with so many positive comments about R2R 11 I am undecided, so based on your experience with DS, do you think R2R would be better?


----------



## iamjaymo (Jan 3, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> I was talking to Kingwa and he said that NFB 11.28 would be better for me since I like EDM more, but with so many positive comments about R2R 11 I am undecided, so based on your experience with DS, do you think R2R would be better?



Well obviously, take what I say with a touch of salt as our listening tastes may differ as well as our gear, etc.  I have issue with bright highs and very forward vocals as it seems piercing to my ears.  I dislike Sabre DACs of any iteration for this reason but I do like some of the Delta Sigma DACs that don’t utilize the ESS Sabre chips like my Cal Audio Tube DAC.  I like a deeper, more liquid-like presentation without being so bright or clinical.  I like my sound reproduction to be smooth but at the same time I don’t want the music to be slow or too mushy either. 

For me, a ladder DAC fit the bill but I didn’t want to spend an arm-and-a-leg to try it out.  It seems to me the R2R 11 with it’s lower price is ideal to evaluate and if you like it it’s a win - if not, probably easy to sell with not too much loss.  The only thing I can say is to try it.

My initial opinion is to say Kingwa may be right as you may find the leading edge of bass notes to be a bit soft for EDM on the R2R - only an unqualified opinion though.  I would still try it!


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 3, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> I was talking to Kingwa and he said that NFB 11.28 would be better for me since I like EDM more, but with so many positive comments about R2R 11 I am undecided, so based on your experience with DS, do you think R2R would be better?


Good morning Renato! I would say if your headphones are v shaped then get the 11.28, it will do magic to them. I am enjoying mine everyday as it is getting better and better.. Especially with reggae tracks with groups like Slightly Stupid, Bob Marley, Steel Pulse, etc.
https://www.leafly.com/news/pop-culture/best-electronic-dance-music-to-listen-to-while-high


----------



## unclebrudy

VilMo said:


> ...and a friend's HE-500.


This pairing is _*lovely*_. Synergy between the two are wonderful.

You may have to proposition your friend to sell it to you once you hear it. I only sold the HE-500 because my neck is weak. Ha.


----------



## Renato Fury

JKDJedi said:


> Good morning Renato! I would say if your headphones are v shaped then get the 11.28, it will do magic to them. I am enjoying mine everyday as it is getting better and better.. Especially with reggae tracks with groups like Slightly Stupid, Bob Marley, Steel Pulse, etc.
> https://www.leafly.com/news/pop-culture/best-electronic-dance-music-to-listen-to-while-high


I bought the HD 6XX but I intend to buy the Amiron or T1.2 in the future, but I thought you had R2R 11, or do you own both?


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> I bought the HD 6XX but I intend to buy the Amiron or T1.2 in the future, but I thought you had R2R 11, or do you own both?


Just the 11.28, I took their recommendation on that one too. You might like the R2R better, I don't like my hd6xx on the 11.28, but that's me, X2 sound better on the 11.28. 11.28 make my X2 sound almost as good as the HD6XX!


----------



## Renato Fury

JKDJedi said:


> Just the 11.28, I took their recommendation on that one too. You might like the R2R better, I don't like my hd6xx on the 11.28, but that's me, X2 sound better on the 11.28. 11.28 make my X2 sound almost as good as the HD6XX!


Why dont you like ?


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> Why dont you like ?


Well, hard to say, I have the Black Edition amp, it has the bass and 3d switches to add to what the HD650 inherently lacks, soundstage. So maybe that's why I don't like it with the 11.28, but if the 11.28 and the R2R have the same soundstage then maybe following their advise is good? Not sure, sorry to add to the confusion. Im not saying its a bad combo, just compared to what I have I enjoy my HD6XX more on the iDSD amp. Its all subjective really, however, having said all that, my gut feeling is the R2R might gel better with the hd6XX.


----------



## VilMo

unclebrudy said:


> This pairing is _*lovely*_. Synergy between the two are wonderful.
> 
> You may have to proposition your friend to sell it to you once you hear it. I only sold the HE-500 because my neck is weak. Ha.


This is my old HE-500 that I sold to him for the same reason hehehe


----------



## Renato Fury

JKDJedi said:


> Well, hard to say, I have the Black Edition amp, it has the bass and 3d switches to add to what the HD650 inherently lacks, soundstage. So maybe that's why I don't like it with the 11.28, but if the 11.28 and the R2R have the same soundstage then maybe following their advise is good? Not sure, sorry to add to the confusion. Im not saying its a bad combo, just compared to what I have I enjoy my HD6XX more on the iDSD amp. Its all subjective really, however, having said all that, my gut feeling is the R2R might gel better with the hd6XX.


Well, with a difference of $200 already is expected to be better, but I would not buy because I think it too small, it should be bad to plug and unplug the connector and turn the volume knob that is tiny, despite the popularity of that mark.


----------



## unclebrudy (Jan 3, 2018)

VilMo said:


> This is my old HE-500 that I sold to him for the same reason hehehe


Oh man, that is hilarious. I wanted to love it - ended up loving the sound immensely, but couldn't cope with the weight. I'm not one to nitpick about comfort (I'd argue to some degree all of my headphones with the exception of the SHP9500/DT880 aren't 100% comfortable for me) but I legitimately would wake up with a sore neck if I had an extended listening with them the night before.


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 3, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> Well, with a difference of $200 already is expected to be better, but I would not buy because I think it too small, it should be bad to plug and unplug the connector and turn the volume knob that is tiny, despite the popularity of that mark.


 hopefully somebody can comment on the soundstage between the 2 amps here. Good luck man, you really can't make a bad choice between the 2, flip of a coin.
Edit: I went home for lunch and tried the HD6XX with the 11.28 again and it sounds good brother, mine is still burning in and if it makes anybody feel better the only reason I bought the Audi-GD is because it was said to be better than the iDSD... so maybe after a good burn in maybe?


----------



## Renato Fury

JKDJedi said:


> hopefully somebody can comment on the soundstage between the 2 amps here. Good luck man, you really can't make a bad choice between the 2, flip of a coin.
> Edit: I went home for lunch and tried the HD6XX with the 11.28 again and it sounds good brother, mine is still burning in and if it makes anybody feel better the only reason I bought the Audi-GD is because it was said to be better than the iDSD... so maybe after a good burn in maybe?


Just one more question that may be the deciding factor, I know the NFB is clear and detailed but do you feel that it has a harsh and strident or soft and musical signature?


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> Just one more question that may be the deciding factor, I know the NFB is clear and detailed but do you feel that it has a harsh and strident or soft and musical signature?


It is not harsh or strident, very musical, and like the hd6xx will get better as they burn in.


----------



## alota

alota said:


> i´ve received the otg cable. when i have time i´ll try with android


Autoquote: sorry but seller sent to me a fake cable


----------



## JKDJedi

alota said:


> Autoquote: sorry but seller sent to me a fake cable


Wow...check Amazon.com for them kind of cables.


----------



## alota

JKDJedi said:


> Wow...check Amazon.com for them kind of cables.


thanks. you´re right


----------



## alota

in every case and waiting my denon, i´m listening with a pioneer se-mj721(around 20€ LOL)and i´m quite happy.
of course nothing serious but it is perceived the difference from D/S dacs


----------



## s2kPanda

Got my shipment notice this morning. Can't wait to get them in.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Got my shipment notice this morning. Can't wait to get them in.


Right on! Nice. Once you get it set up and settled in you'll be racing home from work sipping on your favorite wine spending the evening listening to awesome tunes in Hi Definition!


----------



## Nadham

Life was very simple before stumbling upon this website. Ever since placing an order for Senn HD6XX, I have been going through countless threads here and other sites for a DAC/ AMP recommendation. After considering few - iDSD Nano BL, Mojo and few others, finally placed an order for R2R last week and got the shipping confirmation today. Any one know how to pay customs charges in UK, if any? it has been shipped through FedEx.


----------



## JKDJedi

Nadham said:


> Life was very simple before stumbling upon this website. Ever since placing an order for Senn HD6XX, I have been going through countless threads here and other sites for a DAC/ AMP recommendation. After considering few - iDSD Nano BL, Mojo and few others, finally placed an order for R2R last week and got the shipping confirmation today. Any one know how to pay customs charges in UK, if any? it has been shipped through FedEx.


 Im almost sure the price includes customs, I wouldn't sweat about it, they place the value at $80 anyway so you should be good. And PLEASE...give us your impressions on the combo! I have HD6XX and am curious how it would sound with the R2R vs 11.28.


----------



## unclebrudy

JKDJedi said:


> Im almost sure the price includes customs, I wouldn't sweat about it, they place the value at $80 anyway so you should be good. And PLEASE...give us your impressions on the combo! I have HD6XX and am curious how it would sound with the R2R vs 11.28.


I'm not the one you're asking, but I ran the 6XX with both for a long while up until a little over a month ago.

I've reiterated this several times in the various threads for both units here, but unless you have them side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart - they are more similar than different. If you randomly had the R2R 11 at work and the NFB-11.28 at home or vice versa, I guarantee you would not know which is where. =) This all goes out the window if you use the the R2R 11's "warming" jumpers, which I highly do *not* recommend as the highs are tapered way too much.

If closely A/B'ing the two, *in my experience*, I found the R2R 11 had just a smidge more weight to notes, but it's very minor. Figure if the R2R 11's dynamics were 10/10, the 11.28's were 9.5/10. Conversely, if the 11.28's revealing nature and unforgiving detail were 10/10, the R2R 11's would be 9.5/10 - this is where the R2R "smoothness" would make sense. However, only in very specific songs (mostly acoustic, classical, some OSTs) was I able to tell them apart, and even then not with 100% accuracy. The 11.28's Sabre implementation is so much more musical and _not_ glarey/bright as others I've heard, which makes the two all the more similar.

Simply put, the 6XX synergizes with both well. Don't worry about it. Both units are detailed and fast enough to play to the 6XX's strengths. Both units are the same price (when the 11.28 is fully decked out) - if you're having nervosa because R2R is the FOTM (it's really not the FOTM, but it's had a huge resurgence lately) then go R2R 11. Otherwise you can't go wrong with either, it's truly a flip of the coin.


----------



## JKDJedi

unclebrudy said:


> I'm not the one you're asking, but I ran the 6XX with both for a long while up until a little over a month ago.
> 
> I've reiterated this several times in the various threads for both units here, but unless you have them side by side, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart - they are more similar than different. If you randomly had the R2R 11 at work and the NFB-11.28 at home or vice versa, I guarantee you would not know which is where. =) This all goes out the window if you use the the R2R 11's "warming" jumpers, which I highly do *not* recommend as the highs are tapered way too much.
> 
> ...


Where were you my whole life! <3 This makes a lot of sense, thanks man. Yeah a huge fan base for the R2R right now, making us 11.28 guys almost jelly.


----------



## unclebrudy

JKDJedi said:


> Where were you my whole life! <3 This makes a lot of sense, thanks man. Yeah a huge fan base for the R2R right now, making us 11.28 guys almost jelly.


I'm glad you said "almost" jelly. Hahaha. In the beginning of entering this hobby for me (which was not long ago at all, I'm still a self-admitted audio neophyte for the most part) it's FOMO (I just realized that I use a lot of acronyms, but for those that don't know, _FOTM =_ flavor of the month, _FOMO_ = fear of missing out) that in many cases is the cause for unnecessary purchases. "R2R is better than D/S!" And then suddenly you _feel_ like you're missing out with your O2/Modi/Gungnir/SMSL/etc. D/S DAC and go mindlessly shopping for anything R2R. I think its important for everyone to remind themselves not to concentrate on just DAC chips or resistors, but the DAC as a whole, as well as if *you* enjoy it. Screw everyone else. 

I'd argue that my favorite DAC/amp right now in my chain is the NFB-15, a dual-Wolfson WM8741 that's no longer considered top dog (and is only like ~$125 used) but *to me* sounds wonderful the way AGD implemented it.


----------



## Nadham

JKDJedi said:


> Im almost sure the price includes customs, I wouldn't sweat about it, they place the value at $80 anyway so you should be good. And PLEASE...give us your impressions on the combo! I have HD6XX and am curious how it would sound with the R2R vs 11.28.


I cannot compare against NFR 11.28 as I don't have one (but Unclebrudy already answered it above) but I will let you how 6XX sounds with R2R 11 when I receive them. Price does not include customs and we need to pay if we receive a demand from FedEx I think.


----------



## conquerator2

I didn't particularly care for Audio gd's top Sabre designs. I had the NFB-7 but found it too analytic. But I also had an older NFB3.32 which was based around a dual Wolfson DAC chip and that was pretty good. I also tried Schiit's Gungnir based around the Akai chips which I quite liked but it sounded like it was trying too hard to sound like an analogue design which it weren't. Then I had the Theta with my first true R2R chip and I was sold on that. Then I had the Mojo that I also really liked. Now I have the R2R11 and find it the closest thing to the Theta. It's good to hear that the NFB11 sounds almost the same (its clearly possible given the Mojo did not use a real R2R chip but a custom FPGA in-house solution which got to the same level) but I know when I have a choice I'll go R2R. I am really happy the R2R11 exists and the tremendous value it brings here


----------



## bunkbail

conquerator2 said:


> I didn't particularly care for Audio gd's top Sabre designs. I had the NFB-7 but found it too analytic. But I also had an older NFB3.32 which was based around a dual Wolfson DAC chip and that was pretty good. I also tried Schiit's Gungnir based around the Akai chips which I quite liked but it sounded like it was trying too hard to sound like an analogue design which it weren't. Then I had the Theta with my first true R2R chip and I was sold on that. Then I had the Mojo that I also really liked. Now I have the R2R11 and find it the closest thing to the Theta. It's good to hear that the NFB11 sounds almost the same (its clearly possible given the Mojo did not use a real R2R chip but a custom FPGA in-house solution which got to the same level) but I know when I have a choice I'll go R2R. I am really happy the R2R11 exists and the tremendous value it brings here


You had the NFB-7, but you liked the R2R-11 more? That thing was like 4 times more expensive than R2R-11.


----------



## conquerator2

bunkbail said:


> You had the NFB-7, but you liked the R2R-11 more? That thing was like 4 times more expensive than R2R-11.


It was and it was incredibly detailed with a very holographic soundstage.. Would be great with warmer headphones. The R2R11 is a much better all-rounder though and the sacrifices are minimal IMO. But I prefer slight warmth to glare (which I can't stand) so I imagine milleage may vary (if you like Schiit's products for example, or your gear is on the warmer side).


----------



## iamjaymo

Day 3 of run-in with the R2R 11 and it is fantastic! Very vivid presentation and the DAC/Amp sounds great with my Fostex’s. It’s a keeper for sure. Glad to see positive results from Senn HD-6XX pairing - I got a pair coming from Massdrop soon.


----------



## iamjaymo

Looking to go balanced when the Senn’s get here. How do you think the R2R 11 would be as a DAC paired with an NFB-1? Anyone use this pairing by chance?


----------



## JKDJedi

iamjaymo said:


> Day 3 of run-in with the R2R 11 and it is fantastic! Very vivid presentation and the DAC/Amp sounds great with my Fostex’s. It’s a keeper for sure. Glad to see positive results from Senn HD-6XX pairing - I got a pair coming from Massdrop soon.


I want a pair of the Fostexs..are yours customed? Seen a few different models on Amazon but don't know what is what between them.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> I want a pair of the Fostexs..are yours customed? Seen a few different models on Amazon but don't know what is what between them.


Looks like he has the Purple Heart TH-X00 from Massdrop. Missed out on an awesome priced used one this morning -_-


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Looks like he has the Purple Heart TH-X00 from Massdrop. Missed out on an awesome priced used one this morning -_-


Ohhh..those Fostexs....nice ones!


----------



## iamjaymo

JKDJedi said:


> I want a pair of the Fostexs..are yours customed? Seen a few different models on Amazon but don't know what is what between them.



Just stock - they are amazing! I want to get another pair to have as a backup and possibly to mod...we’ll see.


----------



## iamjaymo

The Purple Hearts are pretty too...check ‘em out:

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/6842


----------



## Renato Fury

It seems that people only have an interest in R2R 11 now? I think the pops are so hypnotizing that they took away the holofortes from NFB 11.28. 

Being blocked by more head-fiers in 3...2...1..and...BLOCKED!


----------



## iamjaymo

Don’t hear any “popping” with mine.


----------



## Nadham

Renato Fury said:


> It seems that people only have an interest in R2R 11 now? I think the pops are so hypnotizing that they took away the holofortes from NFB 11.28.
> 
> Being blocked by more head-fiers in 3...2...1..and...BLOCKED!


Do you own R2R 11 personally or owned it in the past? did you hear pop sound personally ? since many R2R 11 owners have already commented on this subject, I am not worried about it and happy to take the risk (and placed the order as well). After reading whole thread I feel you are hypnotized with POP sound


----------



## tauceti

@Nadham if you live in europe you don't have to order directly from china as audio-gd has a reseller in france. Then you don't have problems with customs and extra fees!


----------



## VilMo

There is also a reseller in the Netherlands


----------



## Nadham

tauceti said:


> @Nadham if you live in europe you don't have to order directly from china as audio-gd has a reseller in france. Then you don't have problems with customs and extra fees!


Agree and I am aware of resellers in Europe, infact Kingwa pointed me in that direction as an alternative option but I went ahead with ordering from directly from Audio GD. I should be getting it by next week. At best I may save few quids, at worst by paying high customs - I will be paying cost equivalent to buying from EU resellers, so I think it is Ok risk. Let's see ...thanks for the info though ..


----------



## JKDJedi

Nadham said:


> Agree and I am aware of resellers in Europe, infact Kingwa pointed me in that direction as an alternative option but I went ahead with ordering from directly from Audio GD. I should be getting it by next week. At best I may save few quids, at worst by paying high customs - I will be paying cost equivalent to buying from EU resellers, so I think it is Ok risk. Let's see ...thanks for the info though ..


Get ready to be looking over your shoulder a lot... some tracks do that!


----------



## Autostart

iamjaymo said:


> Just picked up the R2R 11 and been critically listening for a couple hours now after a 24 hour run-in.  I realize I the unit may require more burn-in but I have to say I am very impressed so far.
> 
> The build quality seems very nice - the volume knob turns with a very nice smoothness and the amp seems solid overall.  This is my first listen to a ladder DAC and it definitely has a different sonic flavor that a DS DAC.
> 
> ...



Congrats! I felt the same way when pair with my TH-X00 Ebony's. The only difference is that no had the R2R 11 powered by my MJ2 that I have since retired. I find the amp section pretty decent by not as good as the dac. I plan on buying another higher powered amp to pair with the R2R 11 as a stand alone dac.


----------



## Autostart

alota said:


> i´ve received the otg cable. when i have time i´ll try with android


It worked plug and play with my Note 8


----------



## JKDJedi

Autostart said:


> Congrats! I felt the same way when pair with my TH-X00 Ebony's. The only difference is that no had the R2R 11 powered by my MJ2 that I have since retired. I find the amp section pretty decent by not as good as the dac. I plan on buying another higher powered amp to pair with the R2R 11 as a stand alone dac.


Amp not enough juice to push the Ebony?


----------



## Autostart

JKDJedi said:


> Amp not enough juice to push the Ebony?


The amp is plenty and will make 80% of the folks on this site happy. I was referring more to the comparison of the dac. The dac is much better than the amp meaning you'd get more from the R2R 11 with some sort of stack system. Like I said I used the Schiit Mjolnir 2 which is a tube hybrid and really sent my LCD-X's to a whole new level.

Please don't think I'm bashing the amp section of this dac / amp combo because I'm not.

 Just watch me enjoy my listening session!


----------



## JKDJedi

Autostart said:


> The amp is plenty and will make 80% of the folks on this site happy. I was referring more to the comparison of the dac. The dac is much better than the amp meaning you'd get more from the R2R 11 with some sort of stack system. Like I said I used the Schiit Mjolnir 2 which is a tube hybrid and really sent my LCD-X's to a whole new level.
> 
> Please don't think I'm bashing the amp section of this dac / amp combo because I'm not.
> 
> Just watch me enjoy my listening session!


Nice...lol..I slept with my amp the first week I got it too ...


----------



## alota

Autostart said:


> It worked plug and play with my Note 8


Any pops?which adapter you've used?
I ordered an usb-b to micro usb but the cable sadly was fake. I checked the tablet and it's good, is a samsung tab A bought recently


----------



## I g o r

I’m right here at Audio-gd headquarters for a visit, and I’m testing the NFB-11.28 and R2R-11 with my LCD-3!

More on this later!


----------



## iamjaymo

Autostart said:


> Congrats! I felt the same way when pair with my TH-X00 Ebony's. The only difference is that no had the R2R 11 powered by my MJ2 that I have since retired. I find the amp section pretty decent by not as good as the dac. I plan on buying another higher powered amp to pair with the R2R 11 as a stand alone dac.



Was looking to do exactly what you are doing. In addition I have a balanced headphone so I want to utilize that. Am looking at the MJ2 also in addition to the NFB-1. I am leaning toward the MJ2 but am a little afraid as I didn’t like the Lyr when I had it long ago. I realize the MJ2 is a different animal but I know I like the AGD “house sound”.


----------



## braaam

I g o r said:


> I’m right here at Audio-gd headquarters for a visit, and I’m testing the NFB-11.28 and R2R-11 with my LCD-3!
> 
> More on this later!



Awesome! Would love to see some pics of what their operation looks like.


----------



## Nadham

I g o r said:


> I’m right here at Audio-gd headquarters for a visit, and I’m testing the NFB-11.28 and R2R-11 with my LCD-3!
> 
> More on this later!


Wow .. wonder what will you buy at the end of your visit  Hope you will post some photos and maybe a video ...... Is Kingwa there?


----------



## VilMo

Guys, what are the areas where you see most improvement with burn-in? How would you describe the changes?


----------



## I g o r

Nadham said:


> Wow .. wonder what will you buy at the end of your visit  Hope you will post some photos and maybe a video ...... Is Kingwa there?



I just bought a new NFB-11.28 and Kingwa signed the top cover interior himself! He was there. But unfortunately he speaks very basic English and I couldn’t talk audiophile with him 

I had so many questions...


----------



## iamjaymo (Jan 6, 2018)

VilMo said:


> Guys, what are the areas where you see most improvement with burn-in? How would you describe the changes?



To my ears, and maybe this is completely psychological, but the amp just sounds more consistent with burn-in. I felt the amp sounded great at times and then not as great at other times. This occurred during the same session with the same music. I don’t hear those changes now after about the 50 hour mark. The bass also seems to have tightened up a bit and I will say the R2R has a magnificent heft in the low-end along with fantastic sparkle and air in the treble.

Again, this could be completely psychological as my ears and brain were getting accustomed to a lader DAC sound signature.


----------



## VilMo

iamjaymo said:


> To my ears, and maybe this is completely psychological, but the amp just sounds more consistent with burn-in. I felt the amp sounded great at times and then not as great at other times. This occurred during the same session with the same music. I don’t hear those changes now after about the 50 hour mark. The bass also seems to have tightened up a bit and I will say the R2R has a magnificent heft in the low-end along with fantastic sparkle and air in the treble.
> 
> Again, this could be completely psychological as my ears and brain were getting accustomed to a lader DAC sound signature.


I have similar experience of sometimes the R2R 11 sounding great and sometimes lacking sparkle (top end) and soul. Good to hear that it will stabilise.


----------



## coklatua

Finally my R2R11 arrived.
Sadly my HD6xx still on its way.. 
Tommorrow will use it with the ZS5..


----------



## VilMo

Excuse me if this question has been already answered but I believe it has not yet been covered. 
The fixed line outs of R2R 11 when feeding an integrated amp (Rega Brio) are affected by the gain switch, i.e. the music becomes louder on high gain.
Anybody knows which of the 2 settings come closer to the standard line out signal - 2V?


----------



## Nadham

I g o r said:


> I just bought a new NFB-11.28 and Kingwa signed the top cover interior himself! He was there. But unfortunately he speaks very basic English and I couldn’t talk audiophile with him
> 
> I had so many questions...


Cool, why NFB 11.28 and not R2R 11? I understand your limitation as I have experienced them during my China visit.


----------



## FredA

VilMo said:


> Excuse me if this question has been already answered but I believe it has not yet been covered.
> The fixed line outs of R2R 11 when feeding an integrated amp (Rega Brio) are affected by the gain switch, i.e. the music becomes louder on high gain.
> Anybody knows which of the 2 settings come closer to the standard line out signal - 2V?


From audio-gd spec page:

 Headphone output : 10V RMS  
Variable output : 5V Max
Fixed output: 2.5V RMS (High gain)
Fixed output: 1V RMS (Low gain)


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 6, 2018)

alota said:


> Any pops?which adapter you've used?
> I ordered an usb-b to micro usb but the cable sadly was fake. I checked the tablet and it's good, is a samsung tab A bought recently


This is the only POP I'm hearing on my amp..


Gang of OTG Cables here ----> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...refix=otg+,electronics,204&crid=3TEGQVFJSIAUZ


----------



## JKDJedi

I g o r said:


> I just bought a new NFB-11.28 and Kingwa signed the top cover interior himself! He was there. But unfortunately he speaks very basic English and I couldn’t talk audiophile with him
> 
> I had so many questions...


One for 11.28!   The details in this amp...right?


----------



## Perko

Hello everyone!

NFB-11.28 or R2R 11. Which one would you choose to go with an Audio-Technica ATH-A990Z headphone?
Thanks a lot.


----------



## alota

JKDJedi said:


> This is the only POP I'm hearing on my amp..
> 
> 
> Gang of OTG Cables here ----> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_4?url=search-alias=electronics&field-keywords=otg+cable&sprefix=otg+,electronics,204&crid=3TEGQVFJSIAUZ



thanks a lot MATE


----------



## Renato Fury

Nadham said:


> Do you own R2R 11 personally or owned it in the past? did you hear pop sound personally ? since many R2R 11 owners have already commented on this subject, I am not worried about it and happy to take the risk (and placed the order as well). After reading whole thread I feel you are hypnotized with POP sound


 I wrote this jokingly, but I have no interest in R2R 11, I asked Kingwa what would be the best choice for EDM and he said it was NFB 11.28 for emphasizing speed contrary to R2R 11 that does not emphasize anything.


----------



## JKDJedi

Perko said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> NFB-11.28 or R2R 11. Which one would you choose to go with an Audio-Technica ATH-A990Z headphone?
> Thanks a lot.


11.28


----------



## I g o r

I listened to NFB-11.28 and R2R-11 side by side, and I noticed a difference in the highs. R2R-11 sounds rounder, without grain, smoother, as if the highs are one layer back. I liked it.

It’s Kingwa’s favorite between the two. But he uses HD800.

For my LCD-3, which he listened to, he prefers the NFB-11.28 for speed and clarity.

I’m using at the moment the warm option and I liked it a lot, reminds me of R2R-11.

By the way, are any of you using the warm option and/or the digital filters?


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 7, 2018)

I g o r said:


> I listened to NFB-11.28 and R2R-11 side by side, and I noticed a difference in the highs. R2R-11 sounds rounder, without grain, smoother, as if the highs are one layer back. I liked it.
> 
> It’s Kingwa’s favorite between the two. But he uses HD800.
> 
> ...


I was just about to..then chickened out..lol. Opened her up and took a look, I might just give it a try but as is, it is perfect for the current can Im using it with. And I kinda guessed the R2R would be better for bright headphones. Thanks for the info, much APPRECIATED! It would be the Cats MEOW if we could change from the two sound signatures with a simple switch..maybe in the future?





 Like how they put a heat sink on the Sabre DAC!





Just wanted to add that wow...took this baby 3 weeks to FINALLY open up!!


----------



## I g o r

I would love to have a “warm” switch. Or two.


----------



## alota

i think that for my headphone the 11.28 is best solution but with r2r-15 the sound is so smooth and relaxing
@I g o r  you´re audio-gd drives well the lcd-3?


----------



## I g o r

alota said:


> i think that for my headphone the 11.28 is best solution but with r2r-15 the sound is so smooth and relaxing
> @I g o r  you´re audio-gd drives well the lcd-3?



It drives my LCD-3 beautifully! Only a Burson Conductor V2+ can drive it a little better, but not much, maybe 20% but costing 4 times more.


----------



## I g o r

Today I listened with fresh ears and found the warm option too warm, I was missing some details and mainly imaging. I took the jumpers out and it’s better now.

I get the impression that this NFB-11.28 moves a little more air than the previous version with USB32 interface.


----------



## tauceti

can you please show a picture of warm jumpers setting? I don't really understand the online manual as the english isn't very good.
@I g o r  please post some pictures from your audio-gd visit! Hopefully you did take some. Was you journey planned? I mean you don't go to china especially to see audio-gd right? Just curious


----------



## JKDJedi

tauceti said:


> can you please show a picture of warm jumpers setting? I don't really understand the online manual as the english isn't very good.
> @I g o r  please post some pictures from your audio-gd visit! Hopefully you did take some. Was you journey planned? I mean you don't go to china especially to see audio-gd right? Just curious


I wouldn't even try it, but if you have to.. what cans do you have?


----------



## I g o r

tauceti said:


> can you please show a picture of warm jumpers setting? I don't really understand the online manual as the english isn't very good.
> @I g o r  please post some pictures from your audio-gd visit! Hopefully you did take some. Was you journey planned? I mean you don't go to china especially to see audio-gd right? Just curious



There’s a picture on Audio-gd website showing the inside of the amp, with two spots for the jumpers. You just stick them in. Turn the amp off and unplug the power cord.

I’ll post the visit pictures in a specific topic. Actually I work for a company in Germany and from now on I need to go to China on a very regular basis for quality control and training employees in our China plant. And it’s only 70km away from Audio-gd, FiiO and a few others! So I’ll get to visit as much as I can in my free time


----------



## FredA (Jan 8, 2018)

Listened to my friend's r2r 11 this morning for half an hour. Wow!

Those remembering the old nfb 15 and nfb 28, this new gen is much bigger in size. And the sound! Clean, detailed, open. This piece of equipment has no right sounding this good. Sounds like it costs 4x the amount. For the office, it just too good, i could not work well while listening to it. I would be taken by music.

As a standalone dac, it even sounds like it costs over 1k. Easily.


----------



## bunkbail

FredA said:


> Listened to my friend's r2r 11 this morning for half an hour. Wow!
> 
> Those remembering the old nfb 15 and nfb 28, this new gen is much bigger in size. And the sound! Clean, detailed, open. This piece of equipment has no right sounding this good. Sounds like it costs 4x the amount. For the office, it just too good, i could not work well while listening to it. I would be taken by music.
> 
> As a standalone dac, it even sounds like it costs over 1k. Easily.


Dude, if you're that impressed with the R2R-11, pair it with Schiit Eitr, you'll be even more impressed. I bought all my audio gadgets/ equipment (iPurifier2, H10, iTube2, Eitr) to revolve around the R2R-11, nothing gives the biggest SQ impact other than Eitr. And its one of the cheapest of the lot too. I also used my friend's Singxer F-1 + Intona with the R2R-11, I think Eitr is a much better than them.


----------



## JKDJedi

FredA said:


> Listened to my friend's r2r 11 this morning for half an hour. Wow!
> 
> Those remembering the old nfb 15 and nfb 28, this new gen is much bigger in size. And the sound! Clean, detailed, open. This piece of equipment has no right sounding this good. Sounds like it costs 4x the amount. For the office, it just too good, i could not work well while listening to it. I would be taken by music.
> 
> As a standalone dac, it even sounds like it costs over 1k. Easily.


Great..now im gonna have to get one of these too.


----------



## iamjaymo (Jan 8, 2018)

bunkbail said:


> Dude, if you're that impressed with the R2R-11, pair it with Schiit Eitr, you'll be even more impressed. I bought all my audio gadgets/ equipment (iPurifier2, H10, iTube2, Eitr) to revolve around the R2R-11, nothing gives the biggest SQ impact other than Eitr. And its one of the cheapest of the lot too. I also used my friend's Singxer F-1 + Intona with the R2R-11, I think Eitr is a much better than them.



So the Eitr makes that much difference? Wonder if it’s the Eitr’s USB implementation or is SPDIF better on the R2R...???


----------



## s2kPanda

Got my R2R-11 in today. Sounds real good out of the box but gonna let it run for a few days before I attempt to compare it to my Mimby stack.


----------



## Nadham

I also got my R2R 11 today. Good news - It sounds good with my windows laptop. Bad news - Does not work with my Oneplus 5t phone but this is a phone issue than R2R. I am listening in Low gain mode with Senn HD 6XX. Using Foobar & 16 bit 44.1 FLAC tracks.


----------



## tauceti

don't understand why Eitr should be so much better...it is only a USB interface and has only CM6631A which is also old. Amanero should be better.


----------



## FredA

FredA said:


> Listened to my friend's r2r 11 this morning for half an hour. Wow!
> 
> Those remembering the old nfb 15 and nfb 28, this new gen is much bigger in size. And the sound! Clean, detailed, open. This piece of equipment has no right sounding this good. Sounds like it costs 4x the amount. For the office, it just too good, i could not work well while listening to it. I would be taken by music.





bunkbail said:


> Dude, if you're that impressed with the R2R-11, pair it with Schiit Eitr, you'll be even more impressed. I bought all my audio gadgets/ equipment (iPurifier2, H10, iTube2, Eitr) to revolve around the R2R-11, nothing gives the biggest SQ impact other than Eitr. And its one of the cheapest of the lot too. I also used my friend's Singxer F-1 + Intona with the R2R-11, I think Eitr is a much better than them.


i have an intona + wyrd + f-1, you think the Eitr can beat this combination? Of course, i use i2s now out the f-1 to my r2r 7 so i would have to buy a proper digital cable if i bought the Eitr. What cable do you use?


----------



## FredA

tauceti said:


> don't understand why Eitr should be so much better...it is only a USB interface and has only CM6631A which is also old. Amanero should be better.


One reason is it has galvanic isolation, this isolate from the pc.


----------



## bunkbail (Jan 11, 2018)

tauceti said:


> don't understand why Eitr should be so much better...it is only a USB interface and has only CM6631A which is also old. Amanero should be better.


It is not "only a USB interface". It has galvanic isolation for one, that alone could give massive sound improvement. It also isolate EMI/RFI, significantly lowers jitter and has linear power supply built-in. Sonically, Eitr trumps most USB -> SPDIF converters out there, even the $1000 Mutec MC-3+. You can see the comparison here.
I also have another USB decrapifier (iFi iPurifier2) that supposedly cleans the USB signal, but I barely hear any difference in sound quality if any. But with Eitr (only Eitr and R2R-11 in the chain), its massive and very apparent, especially the bass. It has way more bass quantity and impact. Sound layering and separation also improves a ton too. But the best thing about the SQ improvement is the vocals, all sibilance is gone, no digital shrill no more.


FredA said:


> i have an intona + wyrd + f-1, you think the Eitr can beat this combination? Of course, i use i2s now out the f-1 to my r2r 7 so i would have to buy a proper digital cable if i bought the Eitr. What cable do you use?


My friend had 2 Wyrds before, and it barely makes an improvement to F-1 + Intona, so he sold them. With I2S he thought Singxer SU-1 sounded the best for his DAC (Spring KTE L3) so I assume it might be the same for R2R-7. In the aforementioned blog post above, the poster said for coax, Eitr is better than SU-1 so it went with it for the R2R-11. Also Eitr is the cheapest of the lot, its no brainer. I use a cheap $25 coax cable, but I think Schiit's $20 PYST coax cable should sound the same. Some people said on another forum that Audioquest Diamond/Coffee sounds better than Schiit PYST cable for the Eitr, but for 0.75m the Diamond costs $500, lets not go that path shall we.

EDIT: The PYST RCA cable is not 75 ohm, Schiit doesn't even recommend it for Eitr use. Some other posters are recommending Blue Jeans cables instead. @FredA I'm tagging you, I thought you might want to know this.


----------



## JKDJedi

iamjaymo said:


> So the Eitr makes that much difference? Wonder if it’s the Eitr’s USB implementation or is SPDIF better on the R2R...???


Gonna test a spdif


bunkbail said:


> It is not "only a USB interface". It has galvanic isolation for one, that alone could give massive sound improvement. It also isolate EMI/RFI, significantly lowers jitter and has linear power supply built-in. Sonically, Eitr trumps most USB -> SPDIF converters out there, even the $1000 Mutec MC-3+. You can see the comparison here.
> I also have another USB decrapifier (iFi iPurifier2) that supposedly cleans the USB signal, but I barely hear any difference in sound quality if any. But with Eitr (only Eitr and R2R-11 in the chain), its massive and very apparent, especially the bass. It has way more bass quantity and impact. Sound layering and separation also improves a ton too. But the best thing about the SQ improvement is the vocals, all sibilance is gone, no digital shrill no more.
> 
> My friend had 2 Wyrds before, and it barely makes an improvement to F-1 + Intona, so he sold them. With I2S he thought Singxer SU-1 sounded the best for his DAC (Spring KTE L3) so I assume it might be the same for R2R-7. In the aforementioned blog post above, the poster said for coax, Eitr is better than SU-1 so it went with it for the R2R-11. Also Eitr is the cheapest of the lot, its no brainer. I use a cheap $25 coax cable, but I think Schiit's $20 PYST coax cable should sound the same. Some people said on another forum that Audioquest Diamond/Coffee sounds better than Schiit PYST cable for the Eitr, but for 0.75m the Diamond costs $500, lets not go that path shall we.


Um, isn't usb data just 1's an 0's  O.o  which then get converted to Analog within the DAC itself... I'm thoroughly confused right now.


----------



## s2kPanda

There are a lot of thread pages on the eitr and that its the real deal in cleaning up the sound.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> There are a lot of thread pages on the eitr and that its the real deal in cleaning up the sound.


Using Eitr with Audio-GD is like putting a $2000 audio system in a 1993 Honda Civic, with the amanero usb already in place in all, don't see why you would need $200 to get a "little boost" on a $350 dac/amp. I could be wrong, what do I know.


----------



## bunkbail

JKDJedi said:


> Using Eitr with Audio-GD is like putting a $2000 audio system in a 1993 Honda Civic, with the amanero usb already in place in all, don't see why you would need $200 to get a "little boost" on a $350 dac/amp. I could be wrong, what do I know.


It really does makes a difference though. Also you need to stop treating the R2R-11 like other sub $500 audio equipment, it really punches way above its weight.


----------



## JaMo

bunkbail said:


> Also you need to stop treating the R2R-11 like other sub $500 audio equipment, it really punches way above its weight.


+1
/Jan


----------



## FredA (Jan 9, 2018)

JKDJedi said:


> Gonna test a spdif
> 
> Um, isn't usb data just 1's an 0's  O.o  which then get converted to Analog within the DAC itself... I'm thoroughly confused right now.


The jitter characteristic has an impact on sound. With any dac. So two different digital sources playing the same exact bits will sound different. Timing matters greatly. The latest audio-gd r2r dacs have powerful reclockers on board so it narrows down the differences. I don't kmow if the usb module's output is reclocked with the r2r 11. Maybe it does not reclock, i would have to ask Kingwa. It seems the nfb-11.28 has no reclocker though. The Sabre chip does input switching and all,


----------



## I g o r

For those who underestimate Audio-gd because of its price, especially NFB-11 and R2R-11, should listen to one with open heart and ears. It’s worth many times its price.


----------



## JKDJedi

bunkbail said:


> It really does makes a difference though. Also you need to stop treating the R2R-11 like other sub $500 audio equipment, it really punches way above its weight.


Im with you on that one, my 11.28 sounds just as good as my other $$$ amp! Would you say the Schiit would benefit one of these amps more than the other, or both the same? They both come with the Amanero combo 384 USB interface. Which to my understanding help clean up any digital interference?


----------



## coklatua

My HD6XX arrived.
Now enjoying it with R2R11.
Sadly I dont have another dac/amp to compare.
But when use it with onboard laptop dac the sound different is like heaven and earth.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Im with you on that one, my 11.28 sounds just as good as my other $$$ amp! Would you say the Schiit would benefit one of these amps more than the other, or both the same? They both come with the Amanero combo 384 USB interface. Which to my understanding help clean up any digital interference?


From what I've gathered, the Amanero cleans up the distortion mess and is a really well made usb interface but what the Schiit eater does is takes that USB source signal, scrubs it till it's sparkling clean and sends that signal via SPDIF coaxial for literally trash free audio signal. I ordered one. if people are buying 600 dollar usb cables and coaxial cables, its gotta be the real deal.


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 9, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> From what I've gathered, the Amanero cleans up the distortion mess and is a really well made usb interface but what the Schiit eater does is takes that USB source signal, scrubs it till it's sparkling clean and sends that signal via SPDIF coaxial for literally trash free audio signal. I ordered one. if people are buying 600 dollar usb cables and coaxial cables, its gotta be the real deal.[/QUOTE





s2kPanda said:


> From what I've gathered, the Amanero cleans up the distortion mess and is a really well made usb interface but what the Schiit eater does is takes that USB source signal, scrubs it till it's sparkling clean and sends that signal via SPDIF coaxial for literally trash free audio signal. I ordered one. if people are buying 600 dollar usb cables and coaxial cables, its gotta be the real deal.


USB cables just transfer data, that's another dabate if a $600 usb can transfer that data any better. Kinda like the HDMI cables, gold plated are better! Not. Really curious about the SPIDF route though.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> USB cables just transfer data, that's another dabate if a $600 usb can transfer that data any better. Kinda like the HDMI cables, gold plated are better! Not. Really curious about the SPIDF route though.


Well obviously... but people are buying 600 dollar cables for a 179 dollar component which I find funny. SPDIF isn't gonna do anything better if the signal still has the same interference from the source.


----------



## tauceti (Jan 9, 2018)

@FredA Please ask Kingwa about it (reclocking)

On audio-GD it says:
Since 11st Dec, below models have built in USB Isolator:
R2R 7, Master 7, Master 11, NFB-7.77, NFB-27.77
Below models can select as an upgrade option:
R2R 1, R2R 2, NFB-1, NFB-28, NFB-29

Ok that doesn't apply to R2R 11 and NFB 11.28.
So does Eitr make sense only for R2R 11 or also for NFB 11.28 (or does the Sabre chip help here)?

And what about the IFI USB3 isolators and purifiers and what else? I don't look through their many products. Are they better than Eitr?
Some of them support DSD but I don't need it yet.

Another question:
What USB cable do you use for Eitr? Can you use the Audio-GD provided USB cable? Is it sufficient or the Schiit PYST USB cable? also need a coax cable which is good...


----------



## FredA (Jan 9, 2018)

I asked Kingwa where the reclocking, data processing and input switching was done on the r2r 11. Simple: it's all done by the da-8 modules. Quite amazing really since Kingwa is able to get rid of many conponents this way. Judging by how the unit sounds, this design is very efficient and ingenious. So yes, reclocking is done. I know the sabre chip does accomplish similar function with the nfb11.28.

It does not mean that a Schiit Eitr can't improve its sound. It very well could because of how it isolates the pc,  because it has fancy regulation and a dedicated transfo. The amanero is excellent but with added isolation to the pc, it can be improved, as a proof isolation is now offered by audio-gd on most gears (except the nfb11 and r2r 11). Also the Schiit Eitr costs half what the r2r 11 does just by itself.

I would not expect a major improvment because the r2r 11 sounds really really good already. It has a soundstage quality i really was not expecting.


----------



## isoa4k

Im trying to decide if i should go for the r2r 11 or NFB-11.28 for my brand new pair of LCD2s last revision. I prefer the R2R 11 but i hear its a bit warm, and the LCD2s are also on the warm side so im a bit afraid they wont pair good. Can you guys throw me some light here?


----------



## simon740

Hello,

so far I had Aune S16 DAC. In my system it turned out to be better than the Naim DAC V1.
Do you think this R2R-11 is comparable to Aune S16?
I only need a DAC.
The speakers are the WLM La Scala Monitor
The amplifier is Jolida JD302 BRC

Greetings,
Simon


----------



## braaam

isoa4k said:


> Im trying to decide if i should go for the r2r 11 or NFB-11.28 for my brand new pair of LCD2s last revision. I prefer the R2R 11 but i hear its a bit warm, and the LCD2s are also on the warm side so im a bit afraid they wont pair good. Can you guys throw me some light here?



I wouldn’t call it warm. It’s organic, meaning that reproduction is not over-emphasized or overly crisp, like they can be with certain Delta Sigma dacs (Sabre).

The R2R 11 is highly resolving. I’ve used it with Planars like the Fostex T50rp mk3 and it’s a dream combo. Clarity, speed, quick transcients, textured bass. Personally I will never go back to D/S dacs.


----------



## isoa4k

braaam said:


> I wouldn’t call it warm. It’s organic, meaning that reproduction is not over-emphasized or overly crisp, like they can be with certain Delta Sigma dacs (Sabre).
> 
> The R2R 11 is highly resolving. I’ve used it with Planars like the Fostex T50rp mk3 and it’s a dream combo. Clarity, speed, quick transcients, textured bass. Personally I will never go back to D/S dacs.



Thanks for your input. Now im ready to pull the trigger on the R2R, i have a Chinese friend who is travelling soon to Beijing so double win win! Hope it lives along well with my lcd2s.


----------



## braaam

isoa4k said:


> Thanks for your input. Now im ready to pull the trigger on the R2R, i have a Chinese friend who is travelling soon to Beijing so double win win! Hope it lives along well with my lcd2s.



Cool! Looking forward to hear about your experience.


----------



## alota

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> so far I had Aune S16 DAC. In my system it turned out to be better than the Naim DAC V1.
> Do you think this R2R-11 is comparable to Aune S16?
> ...


Honestly, in my opinio, if you want a dac buy a dac. the r2r is a budget product with some compromise


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 10, 2018)

isoa4k said:


> Im trying to decide if i should go for the r2r 11 or NFB-11.28 for my brand new pair of LCD2s last revision. I prefer the R2R 11 but i hear its a bit warm, and the LCD2s are also on the warm side so im a bit afraid they wont pair good. Can you guys throw me some light here?


Dude a few post up from here (#578) got the 11.28 to match his LCD3..recommended from the man himself (Kingwa) in China.


----------



## isoa4k

Ok thanks, i already saw it. But i'm asking for LCD2 not 3. And also maybe Kingwa wants to get rid of 11.28 models now that R2R 11 is out. Im sure both of them are excellent combos.


----------



## tauceti

R2R 11 is not a successor to 11.28. I don’t think Kingwa wants to get rid of it. 11.28 was also just released.


----------



## s2kPanda

R2R-11 is going to pair well with anything. It's not bright, it's not overly warm sounding (can always swap out the amp and just use the dac), it has all the details you need but with a very smooth tone, that makes music sound very organic and full. Some little things I've noted since I literally just sold off my HD700s, HE-4XX and HD6XX; R2R-11 drives them all with ZERO issues and my LCD2Cs sound absolutely amazing on them, tons of volume pot left to spare. 

The HD700s sounded even more detailed than my Magni3/Mimby stack. The HD700s were modded with the Modhouse Mod which tamed the treble spike, but the R2R-11 actually tamed it even more to where there was no sharp cutting vocals at all even when turning up the volume knob. I hope the new owner enjoys them. Amazing headphones for classical and just downright the most comfortable pair of the bunch.

The HE-4XX is known to have crappy sub-bass and even bass extension, R2R-11 fixes that problem. Don't know what witchcraft Kingwa does to make an amp/dac bring to life a dead on the inside headphone. Mids/Highs still have that shrilly thin detailed clarity the HE-4XX series is known for but the bass was much better overall. These were a stock pair, brand new with less than an hour of usage before I parted with them. So it was really just a quick test and a very quick impression.

The HD650, I don't even know how to describe these besides, warm, small soundstage, light on the bass. Plugged it into the R2R-11 and it sounds the exact same as it did on the Mimby stack. It's a headphone that scales well, but I honestly couldn't really discern the differences between the two with my less than an hour of usage on these as well before I parted with them.

The LCD2C, I've had these plugged in and burning-in along with the R2R-11 for the past 2 days. (I don't even believe in burn-in but wanted to attempt it anyway) They've been running nonstop when I'm not home. The LCD2Cs, sound so much effing better on the R2R-11 than the Mimby stack. I don't know what Schiit did to the Magni 3 but doing quick A/Bs between the 2 make it sound like the Magni 3 took a crap on the audio source and packed it in nice and tight. The R2R-11 just cleaned up really nicely and the sound coming out of the headphones just felt more rich/lush. It's just flowing to the ears and I have no other way to describe it. I could listen all day without any fatigue because it's not overly detailed and thinned out, but it's not overly warm and boring. It's more on the neutral side in my opinion.

Final initial impressions, the R2R-11 is a steal at it's price. I don't even know why Kingwa even has other products... I have my JBL LSR305s/Monoprice sub plugged into the R2R-11, completely cleaned up the brightness and now I wonder why I even have headphones.


----------



## JKDJedi

isoa4k said:


> Ok thanks, i already saw it. But i'm asking for LCD2 not 3. And also maybe Kingwa wants to get rid of 11.28 models now that R2R 11 is out. Im sure both of them are excellent combos.


Your gonna like the R2R,


s2kPanda said:


> R2R-11 is going to pair well with anything. It's not bright, it's not overly warm sounding (can always swap out the amp and just use the dac), it has all the details you need but with a very smooth tone, that makes music sound very organic and full. Some little things I've noted since I literally just sold off my HD700s, HE-4XX and HD6XX; R2R-11 drives them all with ZERO issues and my LCD2Cs sound absolutely amazing on them, tons of volume pot left to spare.
> 
> The HD700s sounded even more detailed than my Magni3/Mimby stack. The HD700s were modded with the Modhouse Mod which tamed the treble spike, but the R2R-11 actually tamed it even more to where there was no sharp cutting vocals at all even when turning up the volume knob. I hope the new owner enjoys them. Amazing headphones for classical and just downright the most comfortable pair of the bunch.
> 
> ...


Worth owning both the 11.28 and R2R? or if you just own one of these your pretty much set for awhile?


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Your gonna like the R2R,
> 
> Worth owning both the 11.28 and R2R? or if you just own one of these your pretty much set for awhile?


If what people are saying is true about the 11.28 and the R2R, the only difference is that the R2R is that it is a slightly warm sounding 11.28. I won't go so far as to say that the R2R is tubey sounding because it does not sound tubey at all to me. Maybe if I moved the jumper to the warm setting but I feel it'll lose too much detail and get muddy from what others have experienced moving the jumper. I would say you are good with the 11.28 and the only move upward would be amps such as tubes or hybrids if you want to power hungry cans. Although I gotta say it really depends on your preference if you like to have analytical detail or the buttery smooth sound.


----------



## YJX94

s2kPanda said:


> R2R-11 is going to pair well with anything. It's not bright, it's not overly warm sounding (can always swap out the amp and just use the dac), it has all the details you need but with a very smooth tone, that makes music sound very organic and full. Some little things I've noted since I literally just sold off my HD700s, HE-4XX and HD6XX; R2R-11 drives them all with ZERO issues and my LCD2Cs sound absolutely amazing on them, tons of volume pot left to spare.
> 
> The HD700s sounded even more detailed than my Magni3/Mimby stack. The HD700s were modded with the Modhouse Mod which tamed the treble spike, but the R2R-11 actually tamed it even more to where there was no sharp cutting vocals at all even when turning up the volume knob. I hope the new owner enjoys them. Amazing headphones for classical and just downright the most comfortable pair of the bunch.
> 
> ...


How well do you think the R2R-11 will pair with an AKG K712?

It has wonderful bass response and is on the brighter side with lots of detail and clarity, it's more on the analytical side and also has a huge soundstage.


----------



## s2kPanda

YJX94 said:


> How well do you think the R2R-11 will pair with an AKG K712?
> 
> It has wonderful bass response and is on the brighter side with lots of detail and clarity, it's more on the analytical side and also has a huge soundstage.


If they are anything like the HD700s, which have good bass response, are a tad bright, tons of clarity and detail, 90% of the HD800 ultrawide soundstage, they'd go pretty damn well with the R2R-11s.


----------



## YJX94

s2kPanda said:


> If they are anything like the HD700s, which have good bass response, are a tad bright, tons of clarity and detail, 90% of the HD800 ultrawide soundstage, they'd go pretty damn well with the R2R-11s.


I would say the K712 is like a baby HD 800 as that's the headphone I've seen them get compared to the most and I've also tried the HD 800 and I would have to agree, they certainly are mini HD 800s.


----------



## isoa4k

s2kPanda said:


> R2R-11 is going to pair well with anything. It's not bright, it's not overly warm sounding (can always swap out the amp and just use the dac), it has all the details you need but with a very smooth tone, that makes music sound very organic and full. Some little things I've noted since I literally just sold off my HD700s, HE-4XX and HD6XX; R2R-11 drives them all with ZERO issues and my LCD2Cs sound absolutely amazing on them, tons of volume pot left to spare.
> 
> The HD700s sounded even more detailed than my Magni3/Mimby stack. The HD700s were modded with the Modhouse Mod which tamed the treble spike, but the R2R-11 actually tamed it even more to where there was no sharp cutting vocals at all even when turning up the volume knob. I hope the new owner enjoys them. Amazing headphones for classical and just downright the most comfortable pair of the bunch.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much. This was just what i needed to hear. I'm already making the arrangements for my R2R-11 that is gonna be picked locally in Beijing and brought to me some days later. Also my LCD2s which i'm buying in USA and they will be delivered to me in person by my uncle. I'm gonna save some pretty cash with this two moves : ) The only downside, i have to wait one month !


----------



## s2kPanda

YJX94 said:


> I would say the K712 is like a baby HD 800 as that's the headphone I've seen them get compared to the most and I've also tried the HD 800 and I would have to agree, they certainly are mini HD 800s.


I'll put it this way, if you decide to get an amp and dac under $1000, save the money, get the R2R-11 or 11.28. You'll appreciate the quality sound you get out of the little black box.




isoa4k said:


> Thank you very much. This was just what i needed to hear. I'm already making the arrangements for my R2R-11 that is gonna be picked locally in Beijing and brought to me some days later. Also my LCD2s which i'm buying in USA and they will be delivered to me in person by my uncle. I'm gonna save some pretty cash with this two moves : ) The only downside, i have to wait one month !


Hey, a month is worth it if it's a quality purchase.  People waited 6 months for the HD6XX and if you can save money having it picked up and hand delivered, I'd say you just won!

On another note, I actually opened my unit, stuck the two jumpers in to test the warm settings, it muddied up the vocals on every track I tested. It actually ruined a lot of the details in the songs I played. (Random spectrum of classical, pop, rock, rap and edm) I would say 100% avoid the warm jumper settings. The only positive, sort of semi-positive I guess would be that it made the bass fuller, but that could lead to a bit of bass bloat in bass heavy tracks bleeding into the other frequencies.


----------



## YJX94

s2kPanda said:


> I'll put it this way, if you decide to get an amp and dac under $1000, save the money, get the R2R-11 or 11.28. You'll appreciate the quality sound you get out of the little black box.


Do you have experience with both the R2R and the NFB? if so which do you think is a better all-rounder for mainly music and gaming?

Planning on getting some TOTL Dynamics and also venture into Planars at some point.


----------



## s2kPanda

YJX94 said:


> Do you have experience with both the R2R and the NFB? if so which do you think is a better all-rounder for mainly music and gaming?
> 
> Planning on getting some TOTL Dynamics and also venture into Planars at some point.


Not both, but some other users have, I'm just chiming in along with the impressions I've read. Majority have said they are literally the same with the exception that the R2R-11 has a slightly warmer tone while the 11.28 has a little more detail (detail could be just the crap audio engineers never wanted you to hear in a track). For purely music, the R2R-11 would win in my opinion as it's less fatiguing compared to the more overly detailed and sometimes bright Sabre dacs in the 11.28. For gaming and music, I think the 11.28 would be better for details, especially if you play FPS like CSGo or PUBG where you need to hear every detail and where footsteps/bullets are coming from. Honestly ya can't go wrong with either, objectively your mind would eventually tune itself to enjoy the sound signature of either and subjectively it's really up to you if you like it in the end or not. I feel like this is a complete upgrade over my Mimby stack.


----------



## YJX94 (Jan 10, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> Not both, but some other users have, I'm just chiming in along with the impressions I've read. Majority have said they are literally the same with the exception that the R2R-11 has a slightly warmer tone while the 11.28 has a little more detail (detail could be just the **** audio engineers never wanted you to hear in a track). For purely music, the R2R-11 would win in my opinion as it's less fatiguing compared to the more overly detailed and sometimes bright Sabre dacs in the 11.28. For gaming and music, I think the 11.28 would be better for details, especially if you play FPS like CSGo or PUBG where you need to hear every detail and where footsteps/bullets are coming from. Honestly ya can't go wrong with either, objectively your mind would eventually tune itself to enjoy the sound signature of either and subjectively it's really up to you if you like it in the end or not. I feel like this is a complete upgrade over my Mimby stack.


I think I'll go with the R2R.  I've seen way more people prefer it to the NFB and not just on Head-Fi.

I play competitively and soundwhore but on the fun side and not super e-sports MLG sweaty like.

The K712 is a bright headphone and even with its awesome bass response and impact, footsteps in games still sound gargantuan.  I've also seen that it pairs exceptionally well with warmer amps.


----------



## tauceti

FredA said:


> I asked Kingwa where the reclocking, data processing and input switching was done on the r2r 11. Simple: it's all done by the da-8 modules. Quite amazing really since Kingwa is able to get rid of many conponents this way. Judging by how the unit sounds, this design is very efficient and ingenious. So yes, reclocking is done. I know the sabre chip does accomplish similar function with the nfb11.28.
> 
> It does not mean that a Schiit Eitr can't improve its sound. It very well could because of how it isolates the pc,  because it has fancy regulation and a dedicated transfo. The amanero is excellent but with added isolation to the pc, it can be improved, as a proof isolation is now offered by audio-gd on most gears (except the nfb11 and r2r 11). Also the Schiit Eitr costs half what the r2r 11 does just by itself.
> 
> I would not expect a major improvment because the r2r 11 sounds really really good already. It has a soundstage quality i really was not expecting.




Thanks. I think I will order an Eitr and test it myself. So now I will need also a good Coax cable. Is this more important than a good usb cable as Eitr improves the signal anyway?
Is the audio-gd usb cable good or should I use the Schiit PYST usb cable?


----------



## s2kPanda

tauceti said:


> Thanks. I think I will order an Eitr and test it myself. So now I will need also a good Coax cable. Is this more important than a good usb cable as Eitr improves the signal anyway?
> Is the audio-gd usb cable good or should I use the Schiit PYST usb cable?


I've got an Schiit Eater on the way as well. Got the Pyst usb cable with it and ordered a blue jeans cable from their site. Don't know if the difference is anything but meh, the one that came with the R2R seemed meh.


----------



## RockaRolla

Has anyone compare the r2r 11 to denafrips ares?


----------



## bunkbail

s2kPanda said:


> I've got an Schiit Eater on the way as well. Got the Pyst usb cable with it and ordered a blue jeans cable from their site. Don't know if the difference is anything but meh, the one that came with the R2R seemed meh.


I compared the included USB cable on the R2R-11 with my $100 "audiophile-grade" cables and didn't notice any difference. I honestly think USB cables with ferrite cores is sufficient enough for the Eitr.


----------



## alota

Bought another otg adapter. i heard music only fr five seconds and after usb audio player pro sais that there is no usb device connected


----------



## Nadham

alota said:


> Bought another otg adapter. i heard music only fr five seconds and after usb audio player pro sais that there is no usb device connected


What phone you use and what version of OS? I managed to make phone play natively  (all apps like youtube and music players) using external DAC on Oneplus 5t but I could not play anything in Oneplus 2.


----------



## alota

it´s a samsung tablet bougth last year. i think a6. the strange that all worked for five seconds


----------



## Nadham

alota said:


> it´s a samsung tablet bougth last year. i think a6. the strange that all worked for five seconds


Not sure below helps but do try
1. Check if OTG storage is enabled (switches off automatically in Oneplus if unused for sometime) - this option is either under Memory & Storage or under Advanced options
2. Check if USB is in Media Transfer mode and not charging in Developer options - this is under Developer options/Networking


----------



## alota

Nadham said:


> Not sure below helps but do try
> 1. Check if OTG storage is enabled (switches off automatically in Oneplus if unused for sometime) - this option is either under Memory & Storage or under Advanced options
> 2. Check if USB is in Media Transfer mode and not charging in Developer options - this is under Developer options/Networking


Really thanks. I will try. Mtp is enabled.


----------



## JKDJedi

alota said:


> Really thanks. I will try. Mtp is enabled.


https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.faitaujapon.otg&hl=en


----------



## alota (Jan 12, 2018)

JKDJedi said:


> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.faitaujapon.otg&hl=en


I verified with application and otg is enabled. But try again. Honestly i don't understand
tried various chequer and my tablet is good.
probably the second cable is damaged. go to the third LOL


----------



## White Shadow

Will the r2t 11 able to drive two JBL LSR305 speakers?


----------



## bunkbail

White Shadow said:


> Will the r2t 11 able to drive two JBL LSR305 speakers?


I believe it can as the LSR305 already has Class D amps built-in. It just needs a DAC in balanced connection or in this case a 1/4" to RCA cable like this one as the R2R-11 is single-ended. You'll then need to set the R2R-11 in either "Variable" mode (if you want to control the volume using R2R-11 knob, 5 Vrms max), or in "Fixed" mode (1 Vrms in low gain, 2.5 Vrms in high gain). Hope this helps.


----------



## bgbkt

bunkbail said:


> I believe it can as the LSR305 already has Class D amps built-in. It just needs a DAC in balanced connection or in this case a 1/4" to RCA cable like this one as the R2R-11 is single-ended. You'll then need to set the R2R-11 in either "Variable" mode (if you want to control the volume using R2R-11 knob, 5 Vrms max), or in "Fixed" mode (1 Vrms in low gain, 2.5 Vrms in high gain). Hope this helps.



I'm using this exact setup ("variable" mode) and it works perfectly fine and LSR305 sounds really awesome compared to directly connecting to my desktop DAC.


----------



## paldepind

I apologize if this is a stupid quistion. But I find that my NFB-11.28 is "too powerful" for my headphones. At normal listening volumes I have the volume knob between about 0% and 20% turned. And when the volume is very low the sounds becomes unbalanced between left and right ear. Is there any way to "dial down" some of the amping so that I could more easily adjust the volume in the range I use?


----------



## Monsterzero

Im assuming you have the gain switch set to low?


----------



## paldepind

monsterzero said:


> Im assuming you have the gain switch set to low?


 
Yes, I have the gain set to low.


----------



## bgbkt

paldepind said:


> I apologize if this is a stupid quistion. But I find that my NFB-11.28 is "too powerful" for my headphones. At normal listening volumes I have the volume knob between about 0% and 20% turned. And when the volume is very low the sounds becomes unbalanced between left and right ear. Is there any way to "dial down" some of the amping so that I could more easily adjust the volume in the range I use?


What headphone you are using?


----------



## paldepind

bgbkt said:


> What headphone you are using?



Sennheiser HD 660 S.


----------



## JaMo

@paldepind : 

-What source are You using, feeding the 11.28? The level seems too high...

/Jan


----------



## Monsterzero

JaMo said:


> @paldepind :
> 
> -What source are You using, feeding the 11.28? The level seems too high...
> 
> /Jan



Agreed...that doesnt make much sense.
Are you running your system computer USB>11.28>660s ? 
Do you have another computer/source you can hook it up to to see if youre running into the same issue?


----------



## paldepind

JaMo said:


> @paldepind :
> 
> -What source are You using, feeding the 11.28? The level seems too high...
> 
> /Jan





monsterzero said:


> Agreed...that doesnt make much sense.
> Are you running your system computer USB>11.28>660s ?
> Do you have another computer/source you can hook it up to to see if youre running into the same issue?



Thanks for answering  I'm running them through PC > USB > 11.28 > 660s. I've tried both from my Macbook and my Linux laptop with similair results. When the dial is at about 8 o'clock it's at a normal listening level for me (I do like to listen at low-volume though). At 9 o'clock they're what I'd consider quite loud. At 12 o'clock you can easily hear the music without having them on your head and I wouldn't dare putting them on my head.This gives me very little leeway for adjusting the volume inside my comfort zone.


----------



## Monsterzero

paldepind said:


> When the dial is at about 8 o'clock it's at a normal listening level for me (I do like to listen at low-volume though). At 9 o'clock they're what I'd consider quite loud. At 12 o'clock you can easily hear the music without having them on your head and I wouldn't dare putting them on my head.This gives me very little leeway for adjusting the volume inside my comfort zone.



Between 9 and midnight on the dial is what I get too,so thats normal.


----------



## tauceti

so you have plenty of reserves for higher ohm headphones


----------



## novolog (Jan 13, 2018)

Hey guys,
I just got my NFB-11.28 with TCXO today. I have to say I'm a very disappointed.
I'm used to work in studio every day with my HD600 plugged to my RME Fireface UCX.
When comparing, the Fireface UCX is way more detailed, more punchy on kicks and basses, more refined. Better in every point. The audio-gd is really blinded in comparison. Both tested with the HD600.
I thought that a 350 USD dedicated system to my headphones will be at least on par with my pro audio interface, but it's not.
Am I crazy ? I really feel the NFB-11.28 flat and fuzzy whatever the kind of music I'm listening. It's more comparable to my motherboard integrated Realtek ALC898 than my pro interface.

( I also tried a Schiit Modi 1 + Magni 2U and Modi 1 + Vali 1, found them bad too)

EDIT: I didn't know it requires about 100h burning. Will retry later.


----------



## s2kPanda

Your comparing a $1600 dollar interface to a couple of different products that cost less than 400... honestly, you probably have more than just that interface in the chain driving your headphones.


----------



## JKDJedi

paldepind said:


> I apologize if this is a stupid quistion. But I find that my NFB-11.28 is "too powerful" for my headphones. At normal listening volumes I have the volume knob between about 0% and 20% turned. And when the volume is very low the sounds becomes unbalanced between left and right ear. Is there any way to "dial down" some of the amping so that I could more easily adjust the volume in the range I use?


That's crazy, what headphones do you have that this amp is too powerful? Sorry don't know how to turn the amp down.


----------



## novolog (Jan 13, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> Your comparing a $1600 dollar interface to a couple of different products that cost less than 400... honestly, you probably have more than just that interface in the chain driving your headphones.



In the $1600 interface, you pay for an incredible amount of features. Most of the price come from the two industry top of the line standard microphone preamps, 8 balanced analog inputs and 8 balanced outputs, and a crazy good DSP that supports high quality EQ, compressor on more than 80 channels in the same time in real time, with less than 1ms latency.
I was hoping that a 400$ interface dedicated to headphones will do just one thing, but very well.

EDIT: I didn't know it requires about 100h burning. Will retry later.


----------



## JaMo (Jan 12, 2018)

@novolog:

-You are doing Your testing far too soon.. Be patent. Let the 11.28 be playing music on listening level 24/7 for at least two or three weeks before You you test and finally judge it. The 11.28 will blossom.

/Jan


----------



## JKDJedi

novolog said:


> Hey guys,
> I just got my NFB-11.28 with TCXO today. I have to say I'm a very disappointed.
> I'm used to work in studio every day with my HD600 plugged to my RME Fireface UCX.
> When comparing, the Fireface UCX is way more detailed, more punchy on kicks and basses, more refined. Better in every point. The audio-gd is really blinded in comparison. Both tested with the HD600.
> ...


just got them.. no surprise, I didn't like the 11.28 either till after 3 weeks of CONSTANT use, first 2 weeks power left on, 3rd week 8 to 10 hours a day. Same with Senheisers..they have to BURN IN before they OPEN uP.  Give it time dude. Then report back.


----------



## iamjaymo (Jan 12, 2018)

Doesn’t AGD do a burn-in before it leaves the factory also? Thought I read that somewhere. I could be wrong.


----------



## JKDJedi

iamjaymo said:


> Doesn’t AGD do a burn-in before it leaves the factory also? Thought I read that somewhere. I could be wrong.


well..they do test them before shipping out (I've read for a week), and do you really want them holding on to your amp for 3 weeks vs one? Most amp/dacs and headphones require at least 100 hours burn in before they reach FULL POTENTIAL.


----------



## novolog

I can confirm that I can hear an important difference after 4h of use. I was thinking it was burned before shipping too! I'll continue to burn it


----------



## paldepind

monsterzero said:


> Between 9 and midnight on the dial is what I get too,so thats normal.



For me it's more like between 8 and 9 o'clock.



tauceti said:


> so you have plenty of reserves for higher ohm headphones



Yeah, it's good know that it has enough power 



JKDJedi said:


> That's crazy, what headphones do you have that this amp is too powerful? Sorry don't know how to turn the amp down.



I have the HD 660 S. They're not particulairly hard to drive.
So, I assume from the answers thus far that there is no way to turn the NFB 11 down from the inside or something like that . That really is a bit of a bummer. The volume knob whould be much nicer to use if I didn't have to fiddle with it in such a small range.


----------



## Monsterzero

paldepind said:


> For me it's more like between 8 and 9 o'clock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup with my ATH AD2000s I cant get much above 8-9:00(high gain)but then on more power hungry headphones it goes up to 12:00 or higher,but then again im old and like my music *loud*


----------



## JKDJedi

monsterzero said:


> Yup with my ATH AD2000s I cant get much above 8-9:00(high gain)but then on more power hungry headphones it goes up to 12:00 or higher,but then again im old and like my music *loud*


same here..you can hear my cans from the other side o the house, daughter walks up to me sometimes..."Really"!? HAHHAh   #LoveIT


----------



## s2kPanda

So even with the week-long burn-in with the R2R-11, I don't think the unit has really opened up yet. I'm gonna give that a couple of weeks However, I got my Schiit Eitr in and plugged up... the verdict is it turned my LCD-2C into a slightly more detailed and resolving headphone. It cleaned up the really rich texture of the mids and highs, it's still rich but with better clarity. The bass is a cleaner and has more impact, mids feel more alive, highs are even more pronounced. I'm hearing things I didn't hear before in songs and it really added some separation between instruments, especially in orchestra, it's much easier to distinguish what's happening between the violins and other instruments. Before the violins would just get lost, now it just works. If you're curious, go for it, music just sounds much better now, so I'm happy with this Schiity purchase. I really don't think it's necessary to get the Eitr if your goal is to save up for other things.


----------



## bunkbail

s2kPanda said:


> So even with the week-long burn-in with the R2R-11, I don't think the unit has really opened up yet. I'm gonna give that a couple of weeks However, I got my Schiit Eitr in and plugged up... the verdict is it turned my LCD-2C into a slightly more detailed and resolving headphone. It cleaned up the really rich texture of the mids and highs, it's still rich but with better clarity. The bass is a cleaner and has more impact, mids feel more alive, highs are even more pronounced. I'm hearing things I didn't hear before in songs and it really added some separation between instruments, especially in orchestra, it's much easier to distinguish what's happening between the violins and other instruments. Before the violins would just get lost, now it just works. If you're curious, go for it, music just sounds much better now, so I'm happy with this Schiity purchase. I really don't think it's necessary to get the Eitr if your goal is to save up for other things.


Nice! Cool too see another user own the Shiit + r2r-11 combo around here.


----------



## alota

Today i sent a mail to Mr. King Wa asking differences between r2r-15 and r2r-11
This is the answer:
R2R 15 had built in two units 24bit DA, R2R 11 is four units.
In technology, R2R 15 only can arrive 23bit , R2R 11 arrive 24 bit.
In sound, R2R 15 is more warmer , like the 1990's sound style.
R2R 11 is close neutral but can setting to warmer sound, and still can not as warm as R2R 15.
at the end i´m glad i chose the 15


----------



## JKDJedi

alota said:


> Today i sent a mail to Mr. King Wa asking differences between r2r-15 and r2r-11
> This is the answer:
> R2R 15 had built in two units 24bit DA, R2R 11 is four units.
> In technology, R2R 15 only can arrive 23bit , R2R 11 arrive 24 bit.
> ...


wow..one bit difference..crazy.


----------



## alota

JKDJedi said:


> wow..one bit difference..crazy.


LOL yes but in the fact is nothing
Most important is sonic signature


----------



## YJX94

s2kPanda said:


> So even with the week-long burn-in with the R2R-11, I don't think the unit has really opened up yet. I'm gonna give that a couple of weeks However, I got my Schiit Eitr in and plugged up... the verdict is it turned my LCD-2C into a slightly more detailed and resolving headphone. It cleaned up the really rich texture of the mids and highs, it's still rich but with better clarity. The bass is a cleaner and has more impact, mids feel more alive, highs are even more pronounced. I'm hearing things I didn't hear before in songs and it really added some separation between instruments, especially in orchestra, it's much easier to distinguish what's happening between the violins and other instruments. Before the violins would just get lost, now it just works. If you're curious, go for it, music just sounds much better now, so I'm happy with this Schiity purchase. I really don't think it's necessary to get the Eitr if your goal is to save up for other things.


Is the USB cable included with the R2R-11 not that good?


----------



## s2kPanda

I honestly don't know what the cable is made of so I can't say. It seemed to do the job, most cables will. I just couldn't stand the blue sticking out like a sore thumb.


----------



## YJX94

s2kPanda said:


> I honestly don't know what the cable is made of so I can't say. It seemed to do the job, most cables will. I just couldn't stand the blue sticking out like a sore thumb.


Do you think it's an absolute necessity to put a Schiit Eitr in the chain or will a higher quality USB cable be fine?


----------



## s2kPanda

Not absolutely necessary, it cleans up the source and does a great job. I listened to music just fine without it. I could do the same again but since its already sitting on top of my R2R-11, its here to stay. A usb cable from source to dac will still have a dirty source being played back, same with optical cable to the dac, source will still come out dirty. The Eitr is essentially a washing machine for the source before it makes it to the dac.


----------



## YJX94

s2kPanda said:


> Not absolutely necessary, it cleans up the source and does a great job. I listened to music just fine without it. I could do the same again but since its already sitting on top of my R2R-11, its here to stay. A usb cable from source to dac will still have a dirty source being played back, same with optical cable to the dac, source will still come out dirty. The Eitr is essentially a washing machine for the source before it makes it to the dac.


I'll see how it is with the stock USB cable at first then.


----------



## Monsterzero

YJX94 said:


> Do you think it's an absolute necessity to put a Schiit Eitr in the chain or will a higher quality USB cable be fine?





s2kPanda said:


> Not absolutely necessary, it cleans up the source and does a great job.



I agree.
I didnt hear any noise and was happy without the Eitr,but I bought it anyways knowing if I didnt hear an improvement I could always end up selling it for little to no loss.
It made a pretty significant improvement.
Im not selling it.


----------



## JKDJedi

YJX94 said:


> Is the USB cable included with the R2R-11 not that good?


usb cable is a usb cable, no matter how much it costs..but if you want to drink that Kool Aid..


----------



## YJX94

JKDJedi said:


> usb cable is a usb cable, no matter how much it costs..but if you want to drink that Kool Aid..


Oh I know but there are still some really crappy ones I've seen.


----------



## alota

The usb cable seems good. About usb interface like eitr or equivalent, if you have problems like noise, etc. try the interface.
I never had problems with the audio-gd and other amplifiers like mojo,jotunheim, etc. Some people use one or more interface in chain


----------



## tauceti (Jan 15, 2018)

Hi,

I analyzed the Audio-GD USB cable and it has a website on it. I checked it and only found a similar cable:
http://www.szyiwanda.com/high-speed-usb-cableusb-tv-tuner-for-android-tablet-p00015p1.html
It costs only 3$ so I think it is not very high quality.
I just tested an audioquest forest USB cable which gives a better sound when comparing it with a cheap optical cable.
It was too difficult for me to do comparison with the provided blue audio-gd USB cable because the switching between those cables (audio-gd and audioquest) took too much time.
But I think nevertheless that the audioquest should have higher quality.
Also an Eitr is coming soon so I will check out if it provides even more better sound quality.
But I think that an USB cable is not so much important when using Eitr. There I think a digital cable is more important to transport the cleaned signal.
Perhaps anyone can ask Kingwa about his thoughts of the provided USB cables.

NFB11.28 and R2R11 by the way provide the same USB cable.
Note: BTW I didn't have any problems with the Audio-GD cables


----------



## FredA

I requested a quote for the r2r 11. It just is too good combined with my office headphones, the mdr-7506. Can't believe the soundstage and how direct and smooth it sounds.


----------



## FredA

Most audio-gd gears benefit from an ac cord bigger than 18awg. A 14awg is worth under 20$ and should improve bass response. I will test it myself as soon as i get my r2r 11.


----------



## VilMo

FredA said:


> Most audio-gd gears benefit from an ac cord bigger than 18awg. A 14awg is worth under 20$ and should improve bass response. I will test it myself as soon as i get my r2r 11.


I confirm 14awg Pangea power cord improves bass and cohesion on R2R11


----------



## JKDJedi

FredA said:


> Most audio-gd gears benefit from an ac cord bigger than 18awg. A 14awg is worth under 20$ and should improve bass response. I will test it myself as soon as i get my r2r 11.


Now there's power cords to make your amp sound better? O


FredA said:


> Most audio-gd gears benefit from an ac cord bigger than 18awg. A 14awg is worth under 20$ and should improve bass response. I will test it myself as soon as i get my r2r 11.


Something like this?  --> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...A6ulDLGrPpRAPXtfdese-elfM-umRuXkaAg95EALw_wcB


----------



## s2kPanda

Lol, man this is getting absurd...


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Lol, man this is getting absurd...


LMAO...right? I was gonna say but what the heck...can't beat em join em..lol. Only cost me $5 for a 3ft cable anyway..so what could go wrong!?


----------



## bunkbail (Jan 16, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> Lol, man this is getting absurd...


People claim everything can improve the sound on audio gears, from cables and fuses to the case footers and materials. Some people actually believe DACs enclosed in woods sound better than those in metals lmao. I mean, there are even magic rocks for audiophile ***. However, the general  consensus is whatever that electricity can flows through it can be improved. I've seen lots of people swear by power cord upgrades but I'm still using the stock cords for all of my gears. I'm one of those people that is always looking for the best price/performance devices, and It's just not worth the money for such minuscule improvement.


----------



## YJX94

bunkbail said:


> People claim everything can improve the sound on audio gears, from cables and fuses to the case footers and materials. Some people actually believe DACs enclosed in woods sound better than those in metals lmao. I mean, there are even magic rocks for audiophile ***. However, the common consensus is whatever that electricity can flows through it can be improved. I've seen lots of people swear by power cord upgrades but I'm still using the stock cords for all of my gears. I'm one of those people that is always looking for the best price/performance devices, and It's just not worth the money for such minuscule improvement.


I beg to differ.  I like to burn in my headphones for exactly 1337 hours inside a climate controlled vacuum chamber otherwise they just don't sound as good.


----------



## VilMo

Guys, on the power cord issue... I am not selling you anything, this is an observation from me on my system. It is subtle but I can hear it. You can hear different and this is OK.
But it is better not to turn this place into cable debate, lets go back to R2R 11.
It is a great product and I have just put my Marantz HD-DAC1 for sale.
I am starting to wonder how much of an improvement the R2R 2 + C2 combo will bring and I seriously consider upgrading.
However reviews from owners of R2R 2 + C2 are very few...


----------



## FredA (Jan 16, 2018)

With transparent and reveiling headphones, you normally should hear the difference between the default 18awg power cord and a 14 awg one. In my speaker setup, i can quite easily hear sound flavour differences between my many power cables. At the office, i tried a 14awg on the nfb-15 combo and it made the sound better, just slightly more relaxed, with slightly more bass impact. For 3$, it's well worth a try. The differences are subtle of course sometimes and not everyone will hear them. Take 2 persons with excellent hearing and they will report the same benefits however. Same for usb cable and so on. But make no mistake, investing tons of money on cables will not always improve things, it could do just the opposite.

My r2r 11 will be on its way soon. One thing i can tell is you for sure is you don't need a Schiit Eitr or power cable upgrade to enjoy it. It sounds great out of the box with the blue usb cable. For 20$, the shiit usb cable is a no-brainer however. Will it make the r2r 11 sound better? I will probably give it a try and let you know.


----------



## tauceti

I was also considering the R2R 1 or 2 and the corresponding Amp c1. But the price difference is too much compared to the R2R 11 and more important these 2 devices are much bigger!! I doubt that I will hear a difference. So I will stay with R2R 11


----------



## thebkt

VilMo said:


> I am starting to wonder how much of an improvement the R2R 2 + C2 combo will bring and I seriously consider upgrading.
> However reviews from owners of R2R 2 + C2 are very few...


I can't speak for the R2R 2, but my NFB-1 Amp pairs very well with my Mimby.  If I had to guess, the Mimby would be roughly on par (same ballpark at least) as the DAC in the R2R-11.


----------



## s2kPanda

VilMo said:


> Guys, on the power cord issue... I am not selling you anything, this is an observation from me on my system. It is subtle but I can hear it. You can hear different and this is OK.
> But it is better not to turn this place into cable debate, lets go back to R2R 11.
> It is a great product and I have just put my Marantz HD-DAC1 for sale.
> I am starting to wonder how much of an improvement the R2R 2 + C2 combo will bring and I seriously consider upgrading.
> However reviews from owners of R2R 2 + C2 are very few...


If it's a subtle difference, worth spending 5 bucks on Monoprice to get a 14AWG power cable to test. That premium price for the shielded, 99.9% OFC, braided horse hair, sun dried, hyperbolic time chamber cable is all snake oil.


----------



## s2kPanda

On another note, has anyone bothered to pair a tube amp with the r2r-11?


----------



## iamjaymo (Jan 16, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> On another note, has anyone bothered to pair a tube amp with the r2r-11?



Nope, but I paired it up with a friend’s Jotunheim today for about 5 hours and the pair sounded really, really good! Thinkin’ about the Jot for the balanced connection and my HD-6XX’s.  The Schiit’s extra power was very welcome.

The R2R 11 as a DAC perhaps smoothed out the Jot a bit...didn’t seem as bright as I remember.


----------



## Autostart

Ye


s2kPanda said:


> On another note, has anyone bothered to pair a tube amp with the r2r-11?


yes, Schiit MJ2. The best. I sold the MJ2 to upgrade to another tube amp but wanted to stay with amps that take 6922 variants. Unfortunately there are not many high end amps that take 6922 tubes so j will be buying another MJ2 to pair with my R2R 11. 

The R2R 11 is so good that I've be considering the R2R 1>NFB 1 setup but I have something with tube amps that I love and not sure if the I'll like the sound of the NFB 1. I've heard it's very good though.


----------



## s2kPanda (Jan 16, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> Nope, but I paired it up with a friend’s Jotunheim today for about 5 hours and the pair sounded really, really good! Thinkin’ about the Jot for the balanced connection and my HD-6XX’s.  The Schiit’s extra power was very welcome.
> 
> The R2R 11 as a DAC perhaps smoothed out the Jot a bit...didn’t seem as bright as I remember.


If you're thinkin bout the Jot for balanced, the Aune X7s is on Massdrop for 200. It's definitely not a Jot tho.


----------



## iamjaymo

s2kPanda said:


> If you're thinkin bout the Jot for balanced, the Aune X7s is on Massdrop for 200. It's definitely not a Jot tho.



Yeah, saw that...thinkin’....


----------



## s2kPanda (Jan 16, 2018)

From specs alone, it seems the amp in the r2r-11 outputs more power than the x7s, but i may be wrong, never really been into the amp game.

EDIT: NM, didn't realize 1 RZ = more than 1 ohm. Actually now I don't know haha. Anyone care to enlighten.


----------



## elira

s2kPanda said:


> On another note, has anyone bothered to pair a tube amp with the r2r-11?



I’ve a WA6-SE connected to my R2R-11 it sounds pretty good. I particularly don’t like the amp in the R2R-11, I had it connected to a Jotunheim and I found it better than the internal one.


----------



## alota

s2kPanda said:


> From specs alone, it seems the amp in the r2r-11 outputs more power than the x7s, but i may be wrong, never really been into the amp game.
> 
> EDIT: NM, didn't realize 1 RZ = more than 1 ohm. Actually now I don't know haha. Anyone care to enlighten.


seems that aune has loss power and schiit jot, for example, is 7500w at 25 ohm but maximum power, no rms. the r2r11 has 3500 at 25 ohm but i don´t know if is rms or max.


----------



## s2kPanda

alota said:


> seems that aune has loss power and schiit jot, for example, is 7500w at 25 ohm but maximum power, no rms. the r2r11 has 3500 at 25 ohm but i don´t know if is rms or max.


Yeah it's a bit confusing, going through the thread on massdrop, people say that the aune x7s actually has slightly more power than the Jot.


----------



## alota

s2kPanda said:


> Yeah it's a bit confusing, going through the thread on massdrop, people say that the aune x7s actually has slightly more power than the Jot.


So small more power compared to jot,?


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Jan 16, 2018)

R2R 11 or NFB-11 for AKG K712?

Just got the headphones yesterday and was running them off a FX-Audio X6 ($80) as a DAC and JDS O2 as an amp. It sounds pretty good to me but I am wondering how much more will they scale with the R2R 11 and also if the warmth of the R2R will take away some detail (some say no and that it adds even more!).

I've heard people say K712's go well with tube amps (which are much warmer than the R2R), so a warm SS would be good and not too warm? In any case both the R2R and NFB 11.28 are both said to tame the highs a little and also add more sounds stage and better dynamics. Will I be better off upgrading to say, an ODAC, to better my $80 DAC and keep the O2 (might be too bright on some songs and struggles to push the K712's in some low volume songs when in full power/ low gain) or go for the R2R 11?

I feel I'm not getting the most out of the phones, even though it already sounds really good.
Recommendations? Any experience with Audio gd and AKG's? or more specifically K712's?

PS. I don't care about the popping (is not even bad), the FX-Audio I have now goes pink noise when I change from 16bit to 24bit and have to unplug the USB and reconnect it. Most annoying thing ever, hurts my ears .


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Jan 16, 2018)

.


----------



## JKDJedi

Lushy Brushy said:


> R2R 11 or NFB-11 for AKG K712?
> 
> Just got the headphones yesterday and was running them off a FX-Audio X6 ($80) as a DAC and JDS O2 as an amp. It sounds pretty good to me but I am wondering how much more will they scale with the R2R 11 and also if the warmth of the R2R will take away some detail (some say no and that it adds even more!).
> 
> ...


Theyre both excellent in their own way, maybe send the people at china (kingwa) an email an ask the main man himself? He seems to answer all emails. Good luck.


----------



## FredA

Lushy Brushy said:


> R2R 11 or NFB-11 for AKG K712?
> 
> Just got the headphones yesterday and was running them off a FX-Audio X6 ($80) as a DAC and JDS O2 as an amp. It sounds pretty good to me but I am wondering how much more will they scale with the R2R 11 and also if the warmth of the R2R will take away some detail (some say no and that it adds even more!).
> 
> ...


Hi.

I have the k701 and they pair well with the nfb-1amp. Even better wih an hybrid amp (old x-can) but with the r2r 11, you will get some warmth from the dac compared to my setup. And a huge dac upgrade from you current dac. The amp should be a good match because of how smooth the highs are.with audio-gd. And enough current to have proper bass control.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

FredA said:


> Hi.
> 
> I have the k701 and they pair well with the nfb-1amp. Even better wih an hybrid amp (old x-can) but with the r2r 11, you will get some warmth from the dac compared to my setup. And a huge dac upgrade from you current dac. The amp should be a good match because of how smooth the highs are.with audio-gd. And enough current to have proper bass control.



Yes I think I will go for the R2R 11, only worry is future headphone upgrading, I will just stay away from dark headphones I guess. I think any of the 2 will be a big improvement because right now the bass is good but it's hiding in the back (goes so low though), I think my current DAC doesn't offer too much and O2 is bright. Can't imagine the difference it will make; so excited . 

But if you can recommend a similar quality hybrid amp for around the same price I'm all ears


----------



## JaMo (Jan 17, 2018)

You are lucky, snatching them now!

Audio-gd is now selling the R2R-11 for 330 USD and the NFB-11.28 for 299 USD!

/J


----------



## Lushy Brushy

JaMo said:


> You are lucky, snatching them now!
> 
> Audio-gd is now selling the R2R-11 for 330 USD and the NFB-11.28 for 299 USD!
> 
> /J



Where did you see that! I still see 350USD for the R2R-11 in their website   and I forgot about PayPal fees, hopefully I don't get taxed by customs here in Australia, I've read that they usually don't tax stuff below $1000 but Kingwa should know cause I've seen people buying the R2R in Australia in the shipment tab.


----------



## s2kPanda

Lushy Brushy said:


> Where did you see that! I still see 350USD for the R2R-11 in their website   and I forgot about PayPal fees, hopefully I don't get taxed by customs here in Australia, I've read that they usually don't tax stuff below $1000 but Kingwa should know cause I've seen people buying the R2R in Australia in the shipment tab.


They currently have a promotion on their front page, its like a line of text... but ask for a quote and he'll apply it.


----------



## FredA (Jan 17, 2018)

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yes I think I will go for the R2R 11, only worry is future headphone upgrading, I will just stay away from dark headphones I guess. I think any of the 2 will be a big improvement because right now the bass is good but it's hiding in the back (goes so low though), I think my current DAC doesn't offer too much and O2 is bright. Can't imagine the difference it will make; so excited .
> 
> But if you can recommend a similar quality hybrid amp for around the same price I'm all ears


The musical fidelity x-can if you can get one used. But you will have to control the volume with the r2r 11, cause the x-can can't handle much over 2v signals. But it's a good thing anyway cause the r2r 11 volume control is better.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Jan 17, 2018)

FredA said:


> The musical fidelity x-can if you can get one used. But you will have to control the volume with the r2r 11, cause the x-can can't handle much over 2v signals. But it's a good thing anyway cause the r2r 11 volume control is better.



No can do, Australia is impossible for that kind of variety, so much easier in the US but that R2R discount though. I think it was meant to be  how did this happen!?


----------



## FredA

Lushy Brushy said:


> No can do, Australia is impossible for that kind of variety, so much easier in the US but that R2R discount though. I think it was meant to be  how did this happen!?


The r2r 11 should do a fine job as an amp. And as a dac, it's just awesome. Overall, it pairs splendidly with the Sony mdr-7506. It makes one heck of a budget setup, almost too good to be true.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Jan 17, 2018)

FredA said:


> The r2r 11 should do a fine job as an amp. And as a dac, it's just awesome. Overall, it pairs splendidly with the Sony mdr-7506. It makes one heck of a budget setup, almost too good to be true.



Yeah I'm ordering now since they will be on holidays from the 4th to the 22nd and I'm moving houses in between those dates, if it doesn't arrive before then it will be awkward, can always collect from the post office though, so nervous ! so the email for a quote is audio-gd@vip.163.com right?


----------



## FredA

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yeah I'm ordering now since they will be on holidays from the 4th to the 22nd and I'm moving houses in between those dates, if it doesn't arrive before then it will be awkward, can always collect from the post office though, so nervous ! so the email for a quote is audio-gd@vip.163.com right?


That is the address i used, yes. Delivery takes a week or less in general using dhl, which i recommend.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

FredA said:


> That is the address i used, yes. Delivery takes a week or less in general using dhl, which i recommend.


 
Yes, email sent. Thanks for your help and replies. China is pretty close to Australia and I've seen people have had it shipped to NZ in 4 days! fingers crossed.


----------



## Nadham

JaMo said:


> You are lucky, snatching them now!
> 
> Audio-gd is now selling the R2R-11 for 330 USD and the NFB-11.28 for 299 USD!
> 
> /J


With GBP gaining against USD and Audio GD reducing price on R2R 11, I am bit unlucky by ordering 2 weeks early.  But I have been enjoying music like never before.


----------



## s2kPanda

Yes. Enjoy the music.


----------



## VintageFlanker

s2kPanda said:


> From specs alone, it seems the amp in the r2r-11 outputs more power than the x7s, but i may be wrong, never really been into the amp game.
> 
> EDIT: NM, didn't realize 1 RZ = more than 1 ohm. Actually now I don't know haha. Anyone care to enlighten.



I owned both. The R2R-11 is way more powerful. (mid-gain on X7S vs Low gain on R2R11)


----------



## FredA

For those jazz/classical listeners who want a great set of cans for the r2r-11, the he-560 have dropped to 350$ at adorama. They should match awesomely.


----------



## JKDJedi

FredA said:


> For those jazz/classical listeners who want a great set of cans for the r2r-11, the he-560 have dropped to 350$ at adorama. They should match awesomely.


Link?


----------



## FredA

JKDJedi said:


> Link?



https://www.adorama.com/hmhe560.html?emailprice=t


----------



## s2kPanda

Don't do it, QC memes incoming.


----------



## cheungtsw

alota said:


> Today i sent a mail to Mr. King Wa asking differences between r2r-15 and r2r-11
> This is the answer:
> R2R 15 had built in two units 24bit DA, R2R 11 is four units.
> In technology, R2R 15 only can arrive 23bit , R2R 11 arrive 24 bit.
> ...



What is R2R 15?  Not seem this model on the audiogd web.


----------



## FredA

s2kPanda said:


> Don't do it, QC memes incoming.


There could be quality issues of course. The finish on mine is a bit pathetic but they are so good soundwise, i don't care. Some people have reported driver issues but one should ask for a replacement or refund in case anything major is wrong.


----------



## FredA

cheungtsw said:


> What is R2R 15?  Not seem this model on the audiogd web.


Only on the Chinese version of the website:

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R15/R2R15CH.htm


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> There could be quality issues of course. The finish on mine is a bit pathetic but they are so good soundwise, i don't care. Some people have reported driver issues but one should ask for a replacement or refund in case anything major is wrong.


Lol, I almost bought it til I remembered I have a pair of ZMF Eikons on the way.


----------



## FredA

s2kPanda said:


> Lol, I almost bought it til I remembered I have a pair of ZMF Eikons on the way.


Seriously, they are really really good, they sound almost  flat all the way from subsonics to hypersonics.


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> Seriously, they are really really good, they sound almost  flat all the way from subsonics to hypersonics.


Don't tempt me lol. Already got LCD2Cs and Eikons. Don't want a down-sidegrade.


----------



## FredA

The Eikons should be great given the way they are described. For over 1k, they have to be. This is high-end stuff.


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> The Eikons should be great given the way they are described. For over 1k, they have to be. This is high-end stuff.


Yeah, I can't wait for them to show up on Friday.


----------



## alota

FredA said:


> Only on the Chinese version of the website:
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R15/R2R15CH.htm


I bought from magna hifi, one of dealers in europe but now i think is out of stock


----------



## bgbkt

s2kPanda said:


> Yeah, I can't wait for them to show up on Friday.


Would like to hear your impression of Eikon with R2R. I’m thinking of getting exact same combo for office.


----------



## s2kPanda

bgbkt said:


> Would like to hear your impression of Eikon with R2R. I’m thinking of getting exact same combo for office.


Noted.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Don't tempt me lol. Already got LCD2Cs and Eikons. Don't want a down-sidegrade.


Whats your impressions on the Classics..been wanting to pull the trigger on these, how do they mate/match with the Audio-GD?


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Whats your impressions on the Classics..been wanting to pull the trigger on these, how do they mate/match with the Audio-GD?


I sold all my headphones and kept only my LCD2C. A lot of people have been saying it doesn't sound as good as the LCD2.2f but then there are a lot of people are also saying the LCD2Cs sound better than the fazored version. People claim its a really dark headphone, but my impression is that it's a warm headphone with lots of subbass and midbass extension. The mids and highs remind me of the HD650 but without that Sennheiser veil where the mids and highs sound a bit muted and very boring. 

The mids and highs have a very rich tonality and vocals in the low and midrange are more forward rather than laid back compared to the instruments. The soundstage really feels like you're front row of a concert in the VIP seat directly in front of the singer. After the R2R-11 opened up and I added the Schiit Eitr to the chain, I hear a ton of microdetails from my LCD2Cs when before I only had the magni 3 and multibit combo which in my opinion felt a bit more compressed and the mids were more discombobulated and got lost in the lows and highs. It's a very revealing headphone, it will make a poorly mastered source sound like poop. With the R2R-11 and Eitr, my mids have a lot more separation from the rest of the spectrum and now even classical sounds good. If you're looking for neutral, this headphone isn't it.

Overall, I love this headphone, definitely not selling or returning it. The 600 dollar price tag is also going to end at the end of January and it will go back to 800 so make sure to bite before Audeze brings up the price.


----------



## SoniMax

I was told my R2R had shipped on the 11th but, a full week later, I still haven't received the tracking number. Can't wait. Just got my HD600 2 days ago.


----------



## s2kPanda

SoniMax said:


> I was told my R2R had shipped on the 11th but, a full week later, I still haven't received the tracking number. Can't wait. Just got my HD600 2 days ago.


You might wanna send an email to Kingwa asking for the tracking number. He probably forgot considering he filled a ton of orders over the holidays. Mine came in about 10 days after I got the notice. Once the R2R-11 comes in, make sure to run music through it for a few days. Took forever to open up but I don't even think mine is fully open yet.

Also, when my Emotiva BasX A-100 comes in Monday I'll do some listening to see if the LCD2Cs get even more dynamic and engaging.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> You might wanna send an email to Kingwa asking for the tracking number. He probably forgot considering he filled a ton of orders over the holidays. Mine came in about 10 days after I got the notice. Once the R2R-11 comes in, make sure to run music through it for a few days. Took forever to open up but I don't even think mine is fully open yet.
> 
> Also, when my Emotiva BasX A-100 comes in Monday I'll do some listening to see if the LCD2Cs get even more dynamic and engaging.


 thinking 3 weeks is what it will take to open up. Sweet amps.


----------



## SoniMax (Jan 18, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> You might wanna send an email to Kingwa asking for the tracking number. He probably forgot considering he filled a ton of orders over the holidays. Mine came in about 10 days after I got the notice. Once the R2R-11 comes in, make sure to run music through it for a few days. Took forever to open up but I don't even think mine is fully open yet.
> 
> Also, when my Emotiva BasX A-100 comes in Monday I'll do some listening to see if the LCD2Cs get even more dynamic and engaging.


I asked them twice: on the 15th (combined with another question) and on the 16th. I got the customary answer that I was also given in the email that informed me it had shipped "Usually we get the track number in 3 days later after we shipping, we will send to you once we have gotten it." If they don't send it to me this night, I might contact them again.


----------



## Nadham

SoniMax said:


> I asked them twice: on the 15th (combined with another question) and on the 16th. I got the customary answer that I was also given in the email that informed me it had shipped "Usually we get the track number in 3 days later after we shipping, we will send to you once we have gotten it." If they don't send it to me this night, I might contact them again.


I also got above standard reply when I enquired about the tracking number. In my case I got the tracking number after few days of the dispatch.


----------



## CoFire

So can anybody compare this to the Grace m9XX or Grace m900? They are essentially the same DAC/AMP. I'm interested in sound and power comparison though when I get a chance, I'll look up the specs. Just finished up this thread and both these amps sound impressive. I'll be honest though, the Grace m9XX is no slouch either.


----------



## JKDJedi (Jan 18, 2018)

CoFire said:


> So can anybody compare this to the Grace m9XX or Grace m900? They are essentially the same DAC/AMP. I'm interested in sound and power comparison though when I get a chance, I'll look up the specs. Just finished up this thread and both these amps sound impressive. I'll be honest though, the Grace m9XX is no slouch either.


R2R 11 & 11.28
Support Sampling:

USB PCM model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz , 192kHz, 352.8kHz,384kHz
USB DSD native mode: DSD64 , DSD128, DSD 256 .
 Coaxial model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz
Optical model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz

Find it interesting that the usb output goes to 384khz yet the coaxial maxes  at 192kHz.


----------



## CoFire

From Grace m900 specifications:


USB, S/PDIF and Toslink digital inputs, supports up to 192kHz (Toslink up to 96kHz)

Asynchronous USB interface for jitter free computer audio playback, supports up to 384kHz PCM and 256x DSD

Dual zero ohm output


----------



## s2kPanda

When yall list basic specs like that it really doesn't show anything. 

One uses the AK4490 which has that "velvet sound" or in my words colored sound signature, the others are well... a warm r2r dac and a bright/analytical sabre dac. 

Amp section the R2R and NFB wins hands down as it provides a lot more power and from personal experience very clean distortion free power. From what I've gathered, the Grace has a really weak amp section and people tend to pair it with other amps.

The AGD combos are a tier above what the Grace m9xx are priced at. To me it almost looks like a glorified Schiit Fulla 2.


----------



## CoFire

s2kPanda said:


> When yall list basic specs like that it really doesn't show anything.
> 
> One uses the AK4490 which has that "velvet sound" or in my words colored sound signature, the others are well... a warm r2r dac and a bright/analytical sabre dac.
> 
> ...



First off, I listed the specs because I was quoted with a listing of similar specs. Not quite sure why they were listed initially but I listed similar specs to show that the products were similar in that respect, but I agree, those specs don't show much. 

Velvet AKM4490, warm R2R, bright Saber, sounds like all are descriptions of colored sound to me. 

R2R-11 power
3500mW/25 ohm
1800mW/50 ohm 
900mW/100 ohm
300mW/300 ohm
150mW/600 ohm

m9XX power
Low Power Mode
4 80 mW
8 140 mW
16 310 mW
20 350 mW
32 600 mW
50 560 mW
300 83 mW
600 40 mW

High Power Mode
4 925 mW
8 1800 mW
16 1900 mW
20 1575 mW
32 1020 mW
50 680 mW 
300 115 mW
600 57 mW

So I see where the Grace might excel with sensitive IEMs but spec wise lacks power in the high power mode if the listed specs are apples to apples. I've compared the Grace m9XX to the Emotiva A100 in low and high powered mode driving various planars and I've learned that more power spec wise isn't always better, meaning it doesn't sound better. Not sure why. 

I see you've gathered some observations on the Grace and to you it looks like a glorified Fulla 2, interesting as that comparison is not common by any means, not that recall on the Grace thread or really any relevant comparison. The Grace is 500 USD and in the same pricing tier and touted to punch above is value most definitely in DAC quality with a less potent amp though I've not experienced any headphones that sound terrible on it or felt underpowered save maybe the HD650 which just needs lots of juice. Haven't thrown anything ridiculous at it like an HE6, but every amp has its limits. 

In any regards, from your gathering of Grace observations and perception of it in terms of visual appearance to a Fulla 2, I didn't hear any real comparison in sound signature. Can anybody provide a comparison who has actually heard the two DAC/AMPs? I don't care to hear demeaning comments for a product that is definitely not at the tier you make it out to be but rather I'm looking to learn more about the R2R-11 and NFB-11.28 in comparison to something I'm familiar with and something I know is an outstanding product. Just learning and interested...


----------



## s2kPanda

CoFire said:


> First off, I listed the specs because I was quoted with a listing of similar specs. Not quite sure why they were listed initially but I listed similar specs to show that the products were similar in that respect, but I agree, those specs don't show much.
> 
> Velvet AKM4490, warm R2R, bright Saber, sounds like all are descriptions of colored sound to me.
> 
> ...


Very well thought out observations, I'm just here to fuel the flames of debate haha.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> When yall list basic specs like that it really doesn't show anything.
> 
> One uses the AK4490 which has that "velvet sound" or in my words colored sound signature, the others are well... a warm r2r dac and a bright/analytical sabre dac.
> 
> ...


----------



## YJX94

Lushy Brushy said:


> R2R 11 or NFB-11 for AKG K712?
> 
> Just got the headphones yesterday and was running them off a FX-Audio X6 ($80) as a DAC and JDS O2 as an amp. It sounds pretty good to me but I am wondering how much more will they scale with the R2R 11 and also if the warmth of the R2R will take away some detail (some say no and that it adds even more!).
> 
> ...


I have an O2+ODAC (soon to be upgraded to R2R-11) and I also have a DAC-X6.  That pink noise thing is horrible.  I was playing BF4 with my K712s and everything was fine then I switched to BF1 and all of a sudden the pink noise comes out of nowhere and scares the crap out of me, perhaps it's best to leave the X6 at 16-bit since it doesn't do the pink noise thing at 16-bit.


----------



## CoFire

s2kPanda said:


> Very well thought out observations, I'm just here to fuel the flames of debate haha.



Lol, I love it! Good stuff.


----------



## FredA

Expecting my r2r-11 next week. I really did not need it, i think it's is probably gonna distract me from my work (i'll use it at the office). But knowing how good this unit sounds, it like a collector's item to me. It's Audio-gd's best gear for the money ever perhaps and a really good piece of equipement, at any price. It reminds me of an old Cambridge Audio cd player i had at the end of the 90s, the CD4se. It could rival the best out there for a fraction of the price. I think the r2r 11 would cost 2k if only put in a fancier case with beefier transfo. And it would be a bargain even at that price. It just sounds right. And it's forgiving. Helleluia my Lord.


----------



## FredA (Jan 19, 2018)

Just to make my point, buy one, listen to The Touch of Your Lips by Cher Baker and try telling me you still don't like jazz after that.


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> Just to make my point, buy one, listen to The Touch of Your Lips by Cher Baker and try telling me you still don't like jazz after that.


Nope. Got some AFCs coming as well as the Eikons. I'm done buying headphones for a long while.


----------



## FredA

s2kPanda said:


> Nope. Got some AFCs coming as well as the Eikons. I'm done buying headphones for a long while.


What i meant was a r2r 11. The way it plays microdynamics, combined to any decent pair of heaphones and i garantee you will like the mentioned record.


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> What i meant was a r2r 11. The way it plays microdynamics, combined to any decent pair of heaphones and i garantee you will like the mentioned record.


Haha, I'll listen to the song. I need something to pierce my soul.


----------



## Leopanda

FredA said:


> What i meant was a r2r 11. The way it plays microdynamics, combined to any decent pair of heaphones and i garantee you will like the mentioned record.



The best thing in R2R 11 is that the detail and microdynamics it plays aren't a trade-off, the musicality and engagement is out of this world level.


----------



## alota

After many years in this hobby, it's my last amplifier for low impedance/easy to drive headphones. I'm really satisfied due to combination of detail and non fatiguing sound


----------



## FredA

alota said:


> After many years in this hobby, it's my last amplifier for low impedance/easy to drive headphones. I'm really satisfied due to combination of detail and non fatiguing sound


Exactly. Plus the amazing soundstaging.


----------



## alota

FredA said:


> Exactly. Plus the amazing soundstaging.


I'm no able to judge this point due to my actual headphone


----------



## YJX94

Ya'll are driving me crazy with these impressions and reviews, can't wait to get my R2R 11.


----------



## conquerator2

Still love mine and don't see it going anywhere!


----------



## s2kPanda

Got the Eikons in. They sound effing amazing out of the R2R-11. I think with the Emotiva, it will sound even better. I almost want to get into the tube game but for the moment, I'm not going to spend anymore money lol. Not enough head time to really give an impression but they are the perfect compliment to the LCD-2Cs.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Got the Eikons in. They sound effing amazing out of the R2R-11. I think with the Emotiva, it will sound even better. I almost want to get into the tube game but for the moment, I'm not going to spend anymore money lol. Not enough head time to really give an impression but they are the perfect compliment to the LCD-2Cs.


In the same boat..tube amp or new cans...what to do?


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> In the same boat..tube amp or new cans...what to do?


Honestly tubes cost too much for the good stuff. Better off getting higher end headphones.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Honestly tubes cost too much for the good stuff. Better off getting higher end headphones.


Dark Voice 336se got some good reviews. But yeah Classics would be cool.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Dark Voice 336se got some good reviews. But yeah Classics would be cool.


I mean, it gets good reviews for being on the budget end of tube amps. It's like the cheapest thing that doesn't completely suck for an OTL. More expensive stuff really takes the cake. Plus you gotta deal with a high floor noise with the Darkvoice.


----------



## anoxy

I have an NFB 12.1....thinking about grabbing an R2R-11 on a recommendation by another poster over in the LCD2C thread. 

But I'm not sure if it will really change anything? Opinions?


----------



## iamjaymo

anoxy said:


> I have an NFB 12.1....thinking about grabbing an R2R-11 on a recommendation by another poster over in the LCD2C thread.
> 
> But I'm not sure if it will really change anything? Opinions?



Not sure you'd notice anything dramatic unless you A/Bed the two.  The changes provided by the R2R are subtle but the more you listen you notice the effects of smoothness, less hard-edged and the realism it provides.  This is my opinion only but I would take with a healthy grain of salt those opinions that say, "OMG this is the best piece of audio gear ever...".  

It is a great piece of gear, better IMO than anything in it's price-point.  The DAC is suburb.  I think it would be better than the 12.1 (yes, I have heard it as I used to own one).  Just don't bank on it changing your life or anything but it is well worth it.


----------



## FredA

anoxy said:


> I have an NFB 12.1....thinking about grabbing an R2R-11 on a recommendation by another poster over in the LCD2C thread.
> 
> But I'm not sure if it will really change anything? Opinions?


I used to have the nfb12. The 12.1 is similar in architecture as far as i can see. The r2r 11 is a clear upgrade that will be obvious with transparent headphones. It sounds more open, detailed and clean. With better imaging. With planars, it should be a real treat. I will try mine next week with the he-560.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Jan 22, 2018)

YJX94 said:


> I have an O2+ODAC (soon to be upgraded to R2R-11) and I also have a DAC-X6.  That pink noise thing is horrible.  I was playing BF4 with my K712s and everything was fine then I switched to BF1 and all of a sudden the pink noise comes out of nowhere and scares the crap out of me, perhaps it's best to leave the X6 at 16-bit since it doesn't do the pink noise thing at 16-bit.



Yes that's what I have found with the Fx-X6, it's so annoying, because you never know when it's going to hit. Sometimes it does it, sometimes not that why I always turn the volume down before changing bit rate. 
My K712 also started to have "the squeak" in the left earcup, this is only when I try to adjust them, not when they are sitting on my head but it's still annoying. Should I send them back? I have replacement Monoliths M560's coming as well as the R2R-11, so I don't know  The pads on the K712's are getting glorious though but ears also touch the drivers and I would like them to be more clampy. When I first got them I thought the bass was more noticeable than it is now, which should be the opposite, as many people say bass gets tighter and the phones open up. Also, they feel too plasticky, almost like toy, that's what bums me about it. Hopefully they synergise really well with R2R.


----------



## YJX94 (Jan 22, 2018)

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yes that's what I have found with the Fx-X6, it's so annoying, because you never know when it's going to hit. Sometimes it does it, sometimes not that why I always turn the volume down before changing bit rate.
> My K712 also started to have "the squeak" in the left earcup, this is only when I try to adjust them, not when they are sitting on my head but it's still annoying. Should I send them back? I have replacement Monoliths M560's coming as well as the R2R-11, so I don't know  The pads on the K712's are getting glorious though but ears also touch the drivers and I would like them to be more clampy. When I first got them I thought the bass was more noticeable than it is now, which should be the opposite, as many people say bass gets tighter and the phones open up. Also, they feel too plasticky, almost like toy, that's what bums me about it. Hopefully they synergise really well with R2R.


If the squeak is only happening in the left ear cup then I'd send them for a replacement if they're still under warranty.

Also why change the bit-depth, why not just leave it at 16-bit?.  I have done a lot of testing on it and the results come back the same every time, it only rapes you with pink noise if it's at 24-bit.

Also give the K712s time, people are right when they say they'll really open up.  AKGs have a notoriously long burn in time.

And I know it feels cheap and flimsy but it isn't, trust me.


----------



## VilMo (Jan 22, 2018)

Hello fellow R2R 11 owners.

Following the observation by some that the DAC in it pairs well with external amps I am also tempted to try my R2R 11 with an amp that will extract even better perfomance.

I have been looking at the Rupert Neve RNHP and the mostly positive feedback it has received. Anyone had the chance to audition it with R2R 11?

So far I like the R2R 11 so much that I have put my Marantz HD DAC-1 that costs almost twice as much for sale (and will obvously need to change my avatar picture soon).

However I think that a good amp can emphasize the very good DAC in the R2R 11 even further. My gut feeling at the moment is that the amp section in the HD-DAC-1 is better but the DAC section is not as good as the R2R 11 and vice versa.

The Rupert Neve RNHP seems like a good amp for R2R 11 and with 0.01 impedance will probably be a better match for my 25Ohm EMU Teak. I am also interested in having a bit more room on the pot as at the moment I can rarely go above 9 o'clock position.

Any thoughts and positive or negative impressions of RNHP?


----------



## YtseJamer (Feb 4, 2018)

For those that are looking for a solid DAC/Amp combo for Grado headphones, the Audio-GD R2R-11 is quite good with my pair of 225e.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

YJX94 said:


> If the squeak is only happening in the left ear cup then I'd send them for a replacement if they're still under warranty.
> 
> Also why change the bit-depth, why not just leave it at 16-bit?.  I have done a lot of testing on it and the results come back the same every time, it only rapes you with pink noise if it's at 24-bit.
> 
> ...



Yes, I have only had them for 2 or 3 weeks now, however I put zip ties on the sides so it doesn't slide down further and surprisingly it increased the clamp and no more squeaks, much better around my ear and don't notice my ears touching driver anymore, so happy now, they feel so much sturdier on my head. I think zip tie mod is a must for people with small heads.


----------



## YJX94

YtseJamer said:


> For those that are looking for a solid DAC/Amp combo for Grado headphones, the Audio-GD R2R-11 is really hard to beat.  Match made in heaven with my pair of 225e.


Those Grados are a lot bigger than they look.


----------



## YJX94

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yes, I have only had them for 2 or 3 weeks now, however I put zip ties on the sides so it doesn't slide down further and surprisingly it increased the clamp and no more squeaks, much better around my ear and don't notice my ears touching driver anymore, so happy now, they feel so much sturdier on my head. I think zip tie mod is a must for people with small heads.


Interesting, I've never heard of this zip tie mod for AKG headphones.  I've also never seen anyone say they're loose for small heads, the clamp force on them remains pretty strong even after months of use, I can shake my head violently whilst wearing them and they remain planted on my head.

Also since you're still within warranty I'd make use of it, you shouldn't have to resort to zip ties to fix it, that squeakiness could become worse to a point where not even the zip ties could save it, you never know.


----------



## SoniMax

>< mine got held up at customs. Now I have to arrange so much paperwork to get it.


----------



## Tochir0 (Jan 22, 2018)

*exits lurking mode*

I decided to put my vinyl/analogue equipment pursuit on indefinite hold after my 18 month-old toddler became obsessed with rearranging my records (She even managed to crease the cover of one of my super and rare valuable records from the Rephlex catalogue!!). After reading posts on Reddit and of course here on HeadFi I decided to get the Audio GD R2R 11 (over Schiit stack and the ODAC) and dive headlong into the world of digital audio.

I'm currently using Beyerdynamic Dt 770 Pro 250 Ohms (I listen mainly to electronic music of the braindance-IDM persuasion).

Anyway, I’ve had the R2R 11 since January 2 and my turntable and records have been gathering dust ever since. It’s been a blast and I definitely find myself enjoying the sounds more as my ears have adjusted to it. I never realized digital could sound this good. So while I don’t have another quality DAC to a/b test this with I’m extremely satisfied.

However, once in awhile I experience a loud and sudden crashing static-like tearing sound that is downright scary. This sound happens continuously until stopping the track only ending when I pause and restart the track. I’m not positive but It seems to happen less when the unit has been powered on and running for while. It happens while using headphones and while using the unit as a preamp. This happens less frequently now but before it was happening every other day.

Have any of you heard of this before? Is this what people are referring to as “pink noise”? I took a recording of this sound so I can upload it to Youtube in case anyone else is curious to hear it. I’m really hoping this problem goes a away but I worry that it might signify a more serious problem.

Appreciate any of your thoughts.


----------



## FredA (Jan 22, 2018)

Tochir0 said:


> *exits lurking mode*
> 
> I decided to put my vinyl/analogue equipment pursuit on indefinite hold after my 18 month-old toddler became obsessed with rearranging my records (She even managed to crease the cover of one of my super and rare valuable records from the Rephlex catalogue!!). After reading posts on Reddit and of course here on HeadFi I decided to get the Audio GD R2R 11 (over Schiit stack and the ODAC) and dive headlong into the world of digital audio.
> 
> ...


If it's not frequent, it could have to do with the break-in. Otherwise, could be the pc not feeding the amanero fast enough because of other tasks interfering. If using Foobar, there is a buffer size the can be fine-tuned to avoid glitches. If the problem still there after checking on the pc side, i would return the unit to China for repair. Try with a different computer also if possible before  resorting to this last solution. Try also with different usb cables.


----------



## braaam (Jan 22, 2018)

FredA said:


> If it's not frequent, it could have to do with the break-in. Otherwise, could be the pc not feeding the amanero fast enough because of other tasks interfering. If using Foobar, there is a buffer size the can be fine-tuned to avoid glitches. If the problem still there after checking on the pc side, i would return the unit to China for repair. Try with a different computer also if possible before  resorting to this last solution. Try also with different usb cables.



The cause may very well be the usb cable. I’ve had something very similar happen when I temporarily used a cheap extension USB cable. Replaced it with a 5m Amazon basics cable and it hasn’t occured a single time since.

In my case it completey lost the USB audio connection as well and my headphones only transmitted loud white noise. Similarly, I had to pause and restart playback.


----------



## Tochir0

Thanks for the reply guys. I may have been running too many programs on my pc. I'll also try it on a different source and USB cable.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Jan 22, 2018)

YJX94 said:


> Interesting, I've never heard of this zip tie mod for AKG headphones.  I've also never seen anyone say they're loose for small heads, the clamp force on them remains pretty strong even after months of use, I can shake my head violently whilst wearing them and they remain planted on my head.
> 
> Also since you're still within warranty I'd make use of it, you shouldn't have to resort to zip ties to fix it, that squeakiness could become worse to a point where not even the zip ties could save it, you never know.



Yes, but I feel like they would just send me something really similar from china, the clamp wasn't really bad, just a bit loose and would slide down when eating. I prefer a little bit more clamp and because the pads are so nice and I want them tight to my face.


----------



## xkonfuzed (Jan 22, 2018)

Just rushed back home to see my R2R arrived. Installed the drivers, plugged in my 650's, and played some MQA tracks on Tidal. The unit is built extremely well, and the knob feels very premium. Sound-wise. initial impressions are very good. The R2R is _very_ resolving and detailed without shoving it in your face, it pairs very nicely with the 650's as well.

Still have to listen to it a lot more though. Spending the rest of the night bumping to some good music


----------



## YJX94

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yes, but I feel like they would just send me something really similar from china, the clamp wasn't really bad, just a bit loose and would slide down when eating. I prefer a little bit more clamp and because the pads are so nice and I want them tight to my face.


You won't get anything from China, AKG's flagships (K712 and K812) are made in Slovakia with all others being made in China.


----------



## JKDJedi

xkonfuzed said:


> Just rushed back home to see my R2R arrived. Installed the drivers, plugged in my 650's, and played some MQA tracks on Tidal. The unit is built extremely well, and the knob feels very premium. Sound-wise. initial impressions are very good. The R2R is _very_ resolving and detailed without shoving it in your face, it pairs very nicely with the 650's as well.
> 
> Still have to listen to it a lot more though. Spending the rest of the night bumping to some good music


Wait till it "opens up" these are a really nice buy, I'm tempted to add a tube amp but when on my sitting sessions after work wonder...why? These amps sound so good!


----------



## White Shadow

Hi, 
Just got my r2r 11, sounds great except for one issue. Even when nothing is playing i get this beeping noise:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7iqa3195gqm7mfa/Beeping.mp3?dl=0

It is clearly coming from the computer since if i remove the usb connection from the computer to the dac, the beeping goes away. 

I have tried changing the sample rate without any success. Can anyone help me?

Right now the setup is:
Computer --USB--> R2R 11 --RCA to TRS--> 2 JBL LSR305X


----------



## JKDJedi

White Shadow said:


> Hi,
> Just got my r2r 11, sounds great except for one issue. Even when nothing is playing i get this beeping noise:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7iqa3195gqm7mfa/Beeping.mp3?dl=0
> 
> ...


Try a different slot. And/or unplug all your pc connections, reboot and connect them back in on a clean slate.


----------



## White Shadow

JKDJedi said:


> Try a different slot. And/or unplug all your pc connections, reboot and connect them back in on a clean slate.



I did that and still get the beep


----------



## JKDJedi

White Shadow said:


> I did that and still get the beep


Somethings on in the background then. Ctrl alt delete, task manager, processes, might help you find the bugger. Good luck!


----------



## White Shadow

JKDJedi said:


> Somethings on in the background then. Ctrl alt delete, task manager, processes, might help you find the bugger. Good luck!



I actually made some progress.
It is my keyboard that makes the noise.
When I disconnect my keyboard the sound is gone.
It doesn't matter which port I connect the keyboard to either 
Do you know any solution for this?


----------



## JKDJedi

White Shadow said:


> I actually made some progress.
> It is my keyboard that makes the noise.
> When I disconnect my keyboard the sound is gone.
> It doesn't matter which port I connect the keyboard to either
> Do you know any solution for this?


That's a first for me.. Lol. You a gamer? Might be something left on. Don't know really.. Interesting


----------



## White Shadow

JKDJedi said:


> That's a first for me.. Lol. You a gamer? Might be something left on. Don't know really.. Interesting



Yeah I mostly play LoL and mass effect.
I really love my current keyboard which is an Input Club K Type (https://input.club/k-type/).
Could there be something I can attach to the USB cord from the keyboard to my computer that reduces noise?
I am looking into the IRQ from this thread right now: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/com...pictures-changing-on-screen-games-etc.617528/


----------



## bunkbail

White Shadow said:


> I actually made some progress.
> It is my keyboard that makes the noise.
> When I disconnect my keyboard the sound is gone.
> It doesn't matter which port I connect the keyboard to either
> Do you know any solution for this?


That's some pretty nasty USB noise you got there. Maybe you should try using coax/optical out? Just throwing an idea.


----------



## White Shadow

bunkbail said:


> That's some pretty nasty USB noise you got there. Maybe you should try using coax/optical out? Just throwing an idea.



You mean purchase a USB to Optical or Coax cable for the input?


----------



## bunkbail (Jan 23, 2018)

White Shadow said:


> You mean purchase a USB to Optical or Coax cable for the input?


Some motherboards already have toslink/coax out, especially gaming PC.


----------



## White Shadow

bunkbail said:


> Some motherboards already have toslink/coax out, especially gaming PC.



Unfortunately mine doesn't, as my desktop is mini ITX so it's small


----------



## FredA

White Shadow said:


> Unfortunately mine doesn't, as my desktop is mini ITX so it's small


Try using a software that can gain exclusive access to the audio device (amanero) like foobar. Or throw that stupid keybord in the garbage and buy a new one. There is most likely a key jammed on it that causes the problem.


----------



## thebkt (Jan 23, 2018)

White Shadow said:


> Hi,
> Just got my r2r 11, sounds great except for one issue. Even when nothing is playing i get this beeping noise:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7iqa3195gqm7mfa/Beeping.mp3?dl=0
> 
> ...


The K-Type has an audible buzz when the LED's are turned on.  Turn them off to shut it up.  If anything, that buzz is probably carrying along your USB into the amp.  If you want to keep using the K-type with LED's turned on, grab a Schiit Wyrd or Eitr to clean up the interference it's causing in your connection.  In the case of the Eitr (which I recently got myself), it'll make a noticeable improvement to your sound quality too


----------



## FredA

thebkt said:


> The K-Type has an audible buzz when the LED's are turned on.  Turn them off to shut it up.  If anything, that buzz is probably carrying along your USB into the amp.  If you want to keep using the K-type with LED's turned on, grab a Schiit Wyrd or Eitr to clean up the interference it's causing in your connection.  In the case of the Eitr (which I recently got myself), it'll make a noticeable improvement to your sound quality too


It sure should improve the sound. Noise on the usb line is bad. You can also try to use a jitterbug.


----------



## tauceti

Hi guys,

here is my current setup 

Below Eitr an R2R 11 and then a NFB 11.28





I am wondering why are the knobs on the R2R 11 not labelled?
I saw labels on an R2R 11 some posts above mine.
Does anyone know why are there differences? Is it another batch?
What about your R2R11?

Thanks
BTW: Very happy with Eitr and Audio-GD


----------



## JKDJedi

tauceti said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> here is my current setup
> 
> ...


I hate you man...lol. wow, nice setup. I heard it here from one member that these amps sound similar but each has something over the other, could you give us your impressions on sound and what cans your using with these bad boys?


----------



## JKDJedi

FredA said:


> Try using a software that can gain exclusive access to the audio device (amanero) like foobar. Or throw that stupid keybord in the garbage and buy a new one. There is most likely a key jammed on it that causes the problem.


Good point, What is he using for playback? On Tidal selecting Use Exclusive Mode helps.


----------



## White Shadow (Jan 23, 2018)

thebkt said:


> The K-Type has an audible buzz when the LED's are turned on.  Turn them off to shut it up.  If anything, that buzz is probably carrying along your USB into the amp.  If you want to keep using the K-type with LED's turned on, grab a Schiit Wyrd or Eitr to clean up the interference it's causing in your connection.  In the case of the Eitr (which I recently got myself), it'll make a noticeable improvement to your sound quality too



Thank you!
I don't know if I want to spend another $179 for the LED lol

Someone suggested trying a powered usb hub so I will let you guys know the result

I have been using iTunes and VLC. I will try that software too


----------



## Renato Fury

Which of the two is best for V-shaped signature headphones?


----------



## YJX94

Renato Fury said:


> Which of the two is best for V-shaped signature headphones?


Just get the R2R 11.  I think after 54 pages it's pretty clear that the majority of this thread prefers the R2R 11.

EDIT: A vote between the NFB and R2R should be added to this thread.


----------



## xkonfuzed

I must say I've never heard mids quite like this before. My HD650's are absolutely singing with the R2R. Vocals sound very lifelike and natural, I was listening to Mobb Deep's Hell on Earth and was really impressed by the vocals.


----------



## tauceti

JKDJedi said:


> I hate you man...lol. wow, nice setup. I heard it here from one member that these amps sound similar but each has something over the other, could you give us your impressions on sound and what cans your using with these bad boys?


Hi,
I am currently using NFB 11.28 more. Don't know why but I prefer this to the R2R 11 as sound is more crisp and clear which I currently like more. But the devices are very similar. Using AKG K812.

Back to my knob label question: Does your R2R 11 have them or not?


----------



## bunkbail

tauceti said:


> Back to my knob label question: Does your R2R 11 have them or not?


Mine doesn't.


----------



## Nadham

My R2R 11 has labels on the switches


----------



## conquerator2

Mine doesn't either. Makes no difference


----------



## isoa4k

Mine is labelled, purchased a week ago directly in Yuan from China. Though i prefer unlabelled.


----------



## Renato Fury

YJX94 said:


> Just get the R2R 11.  I think after 54 pages it's pretty clear that the majority of this thread prefers the R2R 11.
> 
> EDIT: A vote between the NFB and R2R should be added to this thread.


Have not you made up your mind after all these months? Buy R2R 11 right now for your AKG K712 Pro and be happy, but NFB 11.28 emphasizes speed while R2R 11 does not emphasize anything, and that will be good for EDM, but I still do not know which of the two is best for signatures in the form of V.


----------



## iamjaymo

Just put the Schiit Eitr in the chain with the R2R and I’ll be damned...the Schiit works! It actually does sound clearer. I gotta say I was a bit skeptical but alas, I was wrong.


----------



## Leopanda

Thats interesting! My R2R 11 probably gets a lot of jitter from my laptop.
What are other devices to make sound cleaner? I heard about Audioquest Jitterbug only.


----------



## VilMo (Jan 24, 2018)

conquerator2 said:


> Mine doesn't either. Makes no difference


Everything makes a difference!
Probably Kingwa discovered that the white labels color the sound a bit and removed them to achieve better clarity. 
So you may even be lucky with the _pure _switches.


----------



## tauceti

isoa4k said:


> Mine is labelled, purchased a week ago directly in Yuan from China. Though i prefer unlabelled.


oh no then we all have the "old" version without the labels


----------



## Zigba

Leopanda said:


> Thats interesting! My R2R 11 probably gets a lot of jitter from my laptop.
> What are other devices to make sound cleaner? I heard about Audioquest Jitterbug only.



I recently purchase an iFi Micro USB3.0 USB power conditioner/signal re-constructor and although it is quite expensive at $399 the improvement it has given me is too great for me to return it. It feels like I bought a new DAC. I was skeptical at first, but after listening I am impressed.


----------



## Leopanda

That's too expencive for a signal decrapificator.
Jitterbug is $75 at my local store, is it worth it?


----------



## Zigba

Leopanda said:


> That's too expencive for a signal decrapificator.
> Jitterbug is $75 at my local store, is it worth it?



Never used one, but if they have a decent return policy, maybe you can try it out and return it if you are unhappy.


----------



## FredA

Leopanda said:


> That's too expencive for a signal decrapificator.
> Jitterbug is $75 at my local store, is it worth it?


You should get a small improvment. For 99$, get a Schiit Wyrd instead. Or better, a Schiit Eitr for 180.


----------



## thebkt

White Shadow said:


> Thank you!
> I don't know if I want to spend another $179 for the LED lol
> 
> Someone suggested trying a powered usb hub so I will let you guys know the result
> ...


Based on the soundfile posted earlier, the buzzing sound has nothing to do with the software used.  If unplugging your keyboard solved the issue, then that's narrowing it down to the keyboard as the source of the problem.  

I'd like to hear back from you if turning off the LED's (FN + F6 by default I believe) solves the problem or not.

I didn't notice any buzzing through the AT AD700x's on a PC with the K-type connected, but I could hear a hum from the keyboard itself when the lights were on.


----------



## VilMo (Jan 24, 2018)

I like iFi AUDIO iDefender3.0 better, the effect is a little more noticeable. 
I use it without feeding it with external power - strangely it sounds better to me this way.
The effect from what I have read depends on your PC/laptop, ground loops, etc. and can vary for different users.
I had the JitterBug and sold it. Should be roughly the same price.

I feel the R2R11 is indeed (as also noted by others) less sensitive to jitter than other DACs I have tried.
With R2R11 the difference between SPDIF out of Digione or Singxer F1 and USB filtered trough iSilencer and nano iUSB 3.0 are less obvious, almost non-existent (not the case with Marantz HD-DAC1).
Also the difference between filtered USB signal and straight USB from the laptop while still noticeable is smaller.
This is good news as you don't need to invest a lot in decrapifiers to enjoy good sound.

Now I have not tried Eitr as people here seem to hear nice improvement from it. The effects of JitterBug / iDefender should be smaller.


----------



## White Shadow

thebkt said:


> Based on the soundfile posted earlier, the buzzing sound has nothing to do with the software used.  If unplugging your keyboard solved the issue, then that's narrowing it down to the keyboard as the source of the problem.
> 
> I'd like to hear back from you if turning off the LED's (FN + F6 by default I believe) solves the problem or not.
> 
> I didn't notice any buzzing through the AT AD700x's on a PC with the K-type connected, but I could hear a hum from the keyboard itself when the lights were on.



If the led is off then the buzz goes away even when the k type keyboard is plugged in.


----------



## isoa4k

Im wondering if a USB cable modded with only the two data lines connected (stripping the power + and - lines) will improve the signal quality. After all through the data lines theres only a serial digital stream. What do you think?


----------



## VilMo

On the low cost of the spectrum is also iFi Audio iSilencer 3.0 that I have not tried.


----------



## JKDJedi

tauceti said:


> Hi,
> I am currently using NFB 11.28 more. Don't know why but I prefer this to the R2R 11 as sound is more crisp and clear which I currently like more. But the devices are very similar. Using AKG K812.
> 
> Back to my knob label question: Does your R2R 11 have them or not?


That's what I'm getting here , R2R nice and laid back, 11.28 quick and detailed. Is anybody here having hum problems with the 11.28 or is it just the R2R? I'm wondering if that hum is just floor noise.


----------



## conquerator2

No hum with R2R11. It might however be a ground loop or such on your side which is not easily remedied. Try connecting the DAC to a different power socket, preferably far away in a different room (because power sockets are connected in circles) to see if the ground loop disappears (which is usually caused by a PC)


----------



## YtseJamer (Feb 4, 2018)

The pairing between the LCD-2C and the R2R-11 is quite good!


----------



## YJX94

Renato Fury said:


> Have not you made up your mind after all these months? Buy R2R 11 right now for your AKG K712 Pro and be happy, but NFB 11.28 emphasizes speed while R2R 11 does not emphasize anything, and that will be good for EDM, but I still do not know which of the two is best for signatures in the form of V.


I already decided on the R2R a while ago and that isn't changing.  Like I said the majority of this thread prefers the R2R and it's not just Head-Fi.  The signature of the headphone shouldn't matter, the V-shaped headphone will give you way more of a V-shape sound than any DAC/Amp can, the job of the DAC/Amp is to take the headphones sound and make it better and judging by this thread the R2R does it better than the NFB.  The R2R being slightly warmer and more musical isn't going to ruin a V-shape, detail or speed.


----------



## conquerator2

I am pretty sure the R2R11 will sound great with a V shape. It won't emphasize the signature.


----------



## Renato Fury

YJX94 said:


> I already decided on the R2R a while ago and that isn't changing.  Like I said the majority of this thread prefers the R2R and it's not just Head-Fi.  The signature of the headphone shouldn't matter, the V-shaped headphone will give you way more of a V-shape sound than any DAC/Amp can, the job of the DAC/Amp is to take the headphones sound and make it better and judging by this thread the R2R does it better than the NFB.  The R2R being slightly warmer and more musical isn't going to ruin a V-shape, detail or speed.


The R2R 11 is not better, it's just different, and they have more similarities than different, plus you can find comments from people who prefer NFB 11.28, I even plan to buy it instead of R2R 11.


conquerator2 said:


> I am pretty sure the R2R11 will sound great with a V shape. It won't emphasize the signature.


What I wanted to know is if one of the two is better for V signatures.


----------



## JKDJedi

YtseJamer said:


> The pairing between the LCD-2C and the R2R-11 is amazing!


I have that headphone in the shopping cart every day and have not been able to push the buy button! Not yet anyway.


----------



## YtseJamer

JKDJedi said:


> I have that headphone in the shopping cart every day and have not been able to push the buy button! Not yet anyway.



Do it now!


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> I have that headphone in the shopping cart every day and have not been able to push the buy button! Not yet anyway.


Do it, you won't regret it. You'll sell all your low-fi, budget-fi, mid-fi cans.


----------



## FredA

s2kPanda said:


> Do it, you won't regret it. You'll sell all your low-fi, budget-fi, mid-fi cans.


Or buy the he560 on sale at Adorama for 350$. And enjoy.


----------



## bunkbail

Leopanda said:


> That's too expencive for a signal decrapificator.
> Jitterbug is $75 at my local store, is it worth it?


I had a chance to try some USB decrapifier for the R2R-11 a few days ago (Jitterbug, Wyrd, iPurifier2), they make so little impact it was not worth it at all. I'd say if you want an obvious sonic improvement, just go for Eitr. Go big or go home.


----------



## Renato Fury

s2kPanda said:


> Do it, you won't regret it. You'll sell all your low-fi, budget-fi, mid-fi cans.





FredA said:


> Or buy the he560 on sale at Adorama for 350$. And enjoy.


Or the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, though I've never tested it.  Has anyone ever used it with one of these two amplifiers?


----------



## FredA

isoa4k said:


> Im wondering if a USB cable modded with only the two data lines connected (stripping the power + and - lines) will improve the signal quality. After all through the data lines theres only a serial digital stream. What do you think?


Could improve things for sure.


----------



## Leopanda

bunkbail said:


> I had a chance to try some USB decrapifier for the R2R-11 a few days ago (Jitterbug, Wyrd, iPurifier2), they make so little impact it was not worth it at all. I'd say if you want an obvious sonic improvement, just go for Eitr. Go big or go home.



Yeah, I'm kinda happy with what I have. So I'll better aim at buying a new pair of headphones for office and outside use, like meze 99 or so.
Just thought that if such a little thing could do a noticeable signal improvement then it's an easy buy.


----------



## Renato Fury

Does this Schiit Eitr really make such a difference or is it a minimal improvement ?


----------



## thebkt

Renato Fury said:


> Does this Schiit Eitr really make such a difference or is it a minimal improvement ?


Depending on the quality of your USB connection it can range from massive difference to noticeable but not life altering.

On my particular setup I had no problems at all with USB noise or jitter (that I was aware of), but adding the Eitr further smoothed out treble and revealed details that were missing prior.  It is a luxury item among luxury items, but I'll be keeping it in my system indefinitely.


----------



## s2kPanda

Was skeptical of the Eitr at first, but it works. Just makes music sound better.


----------



## Leopanda

Doesn't it make music sound more analytical and less thick, or just cleans high frequencies?


----------



## s2kPanda

Leopanda said:


> Doesn't it make music sound more analytical and less thick, or just cleans high frequencies?


Not more analytical, it adds separation and the detail that was caught up in the mix has more prominence. It's very subtle but its there if you do listen for it. What's already there won't change, the sound does not get leaned out the way say an HD600 or HD800 sounds in the upper frequencies.


----------



## iamjaymo

s2kPanda said:


> Not more analytical, it adds separation and the detail that was caught up in the mix has more prominence. It's very subtle but its there if you do listen for it. What's already there won't change, the sound does not get leaned out the way say an HD600 or HD800 sounds in the upper frequencies.



I'll tell you what...this is probably one of the best descriptions of EXACTLY what the Eitr does.  A clear and concise description.


----------



## JKDJedi

Renato Fury said:


> Does this Schiit Eitr really make such a difference or is it a minimal improvement ?


Seems that it's the thing to get if you go with the R2R. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Seems that it's the thing to get if you go with the R2R. Your mileage may vary.


Now just need a 14 gauge power cable and a nice OTL tube amp to pair with it since the solid state amp in it is already amazing.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Now just need a 14 gauge power cable and a nice OTL tube amp to pair with it since the solid state amp in it is already amazing.


Wow.. Is that what everybody has here?


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> Wow.. Is that what everybody has here?


Lol more in line with just how do we maximize the crap out of this product that should be way pricier.


----------



## JKDJedi

s2kPanda said:


> Lol more in line with just how do we maximize the crap out of this product that should be way pricier.


It can/should be sold at a higher price...lets not tell them!  I get it though, you buy this nice video card and still overclock it to get MORE out of it.


----------



## s2kPanda

JKDJedi said:


> It can/should be sold at a higher price...lets not tell them!  I get it though, you buy this nice video card and still overclock it to get MORE out of it.


Except we can't even buy a nice video card right now without eye-gouging prices or miners swiping up every single one slightly above MSRP. -_-


----------



## Renato Fury

JKDJedi said:


> Seems that it's the thing to get if you go with the R2R. Your mileage may vary.


Does this improvement only work with R2R dacs? So would it be useless with NFB 11.28 or other Delta Sigma dacs ?


----------



## JKDJedi

YtseJamer said:


> Do it now!


I just did! (better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission) !


----------



## anoxy

Renato Fury said:


> Or the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, though I've never tested it.  Has anyone ever used it with one of these two amplifiers?


I've used it with the NFB12 and it was so hollow, lifeless and sterile sounding I put it back in the box and returned it to Amazon. Yikes it was not for me. The LCD-2C however has been an excellent all arounder.


----------



## Leopanda (Jan 26, 2018)

Renato Fury said:


> Does this improvement only work with R2R dacs? So would it be useless with NFB 11.28 or other Delta Sigma dacs ?



It should work with all dacs that don't have a built-in signal decrapifier.



s2kPanda said:


> Not more analytical, it adds separation and the detail that was caught up in the mix has more prominence. It's very subtle but its there if you do listen for it. What's already there won't change, the sound does not get leaned out the way say an HD600 or HD800 sounds in the upper frequencies.



I hate that it costs $340+ in my local schiit shop! I hope someone would kick sсhiit out of their heads.


----------



## Renato Fury

anoxy said:


> I've used it with the NFB12 and it was so hollow, lifeless and sterile sounding I put it back in the box and returned it to Amazon. Yikes it was not for me. The LCD-2C however has been an excellent all arounder.


When I said one of these two amplifiers, I was referring to NFB 11.28 and R2R 11.


Leopanda said:


> It should work with all dacs that don't have a built-in signal decrapifier.


I think I did not express myself well, what I want to know is if Eitr would have the same efficiency with NFB 11.28 that it has with R2R 11.


----------



## thebkt

Renato Fury said:


> I think I did not express myself well, what I want to know is if Eitr would have the same efficiency with NFB 11.28 that it has with R2R 11.


Leopanda answered that.


----------



## SoniMax (Jan 26, 2018)

OH MY GOD, this ticking sound is awful.
It is even present when songs from the same album change. It is even present in the same song file when I jump from one part of the song to another.
Is there really no way to completely get rid of it?
I, honestly, did not expect it to be that bad.
Those of you who were downplaying it must have nerves of steel.


----------



## JaMo

SoniMax said:


> OH MY GOD, this ticking sound is awful.
> It is even present when songs from the same album change. It is even present in the same song file when I jump from one part of the song to another.
> Is there really no way to completely get rid of it?
> I, honestly, did not expect it to be that bad.
> Those of you who were downplaying it must have nerves of steel.


What are You talking about? NFB11.28 or the R2R11? What source? Played material? what input? (USB, optical, SPDIF)

/Jan


----------



## JKDJedi

SoniMax said:


> OH MY GOD, this ticking sound is awful.
> It is even present when songs from the same album change. It is even present in the same song file when I jump from one part of





JaMo said:


> What are You talking about? NFB11.28 or the R2R11? What source? Played material? what input? (USB, optical, SPDIF)
> 
> /Jan


Probably off his iPhone


----------



## SoniMax

JaMo said:


> What are You talking about? NFB11.28 or the R2R11? What source? Played material? what input? (USB, optical, SPDIF)
> 
> /Jan


R2R
Flacs from foobar
From my laptop via USB
I tried Wasapi and Asio as well. 
Wasapi was even worse, asio was more bearable


----------



## bunkbail

SoniMax said:


> Those of you who were downplaying it must have nerves of steel.


It's not that I'm downplaying it, I don't even get to experience said ticking/popping issue since ages. Real talk. I remember it used to made subtle clicking noise during the first week I got the unit, but I don't even get those issues these days. Maybe its because of Eitr I don't know.


----------



## JaMo

SoniMax said:


> R2R
> Flacs from foobar
> From my laptop via USB
> I tried Wasapi and Asio as well.
> Wasapi was even worse, asio was more bearable


Ok. -Are the ticking noise constant or does it vary with the music?
-Do You have acces to a USB 2.0 hub to connect between the PC and the R2Rdac?
/J


----------



## SoniMax

JaMo said:


> Ok. -Are the ticking noise constant or does it vary with the music?
> -Do You have acces to a USB 2.0 hub to connect between the PC and the R2Rdac?
> /J


It seems to be a bit quieter when changing to some songs, so it's not the same between all songs but still very much present and audible. It was the same when changing to different parts of the same song. I don't have a usb hub at the moment. I am having these issues on usb 2.0, I will check if there is any difference with my usb 3.0 port even though people usually say it is worse.

I will try to get my hands on a coax perhaps to see if it makes any difderence


----------



## xkonfuzed

Just give it some time. Mine had had a similar issue the first couple of hours I used it but now its gone.


----------



## Renato Fury

HEHE, another one complaining about pops, get ready @SoniMax, soon people will start blocking you as well.  But I've read comments saying that using the coaxial and optical connections reduces or eliminates the pops.


----------



## thyomit

Hi, this is my first post here at Head-Fi. My R2R-11 recently arrived and I use my LG V10 as source. I read somewhere that using an Android phone as source would not work and I was worried for a while after I paid for the equipment online. But it works! I just use a regular OTG USB cable (and I forgot how and when I got it)  between my phone and the USB cable that comes with it.

I've been using mobile phones to listen to music for more than maybe 5 years now as it is handy and I don't want to get tied up while listening to music. Sound quality of mobile phones is getting much better  especially with phones equipped with internal DAC and amp. But after reading this forum I was convinced that I probably needed an external DAC/amp as music just doesn't sound very natural with the phone alone.

Well I was right. I'm quite impressed with the R2R so far. Music just sounds more natural and more engaging. And it's early days yet! I'll keep burning it in and see how it goes.


----------



## Renato Fury

Well, it seems that R2R 11 has stolen the attention for him, I would like to read more comments about NFB 11.28, does anyone else have anything else to add about NFB 11.28 ?


----------



## Monsterzero

bunkbail said:


> It's not that I'm downplaying it, I don't even get to experience said ticking/popping issue since ages. Real talk. I remember it used to made subtle clicking noise during the first week I got the unit, but I don't even get those issues these days. Maybe its because of Eitr I don't know.



+1
Added Eitr,made the popping worse for about a week,then it entirely disappeared.


----------



## VilMo

thyomit said:


> Hi, this is my first post here at Head-Fi. My R2R-11 recently arrived and I use my LG V10 as source. I read somewhere that using an Android phone as source would not work and I was worried for a while after I paid for the equipment online. But it works! I just use a regular OTG USB cable (and I forgot how and when I got it)  between my phone and the USB cable that comes with it.
> 
> I've been using mobile phones to listen to music for more than maybe 5 years now as it is handy and I don't want to get tied up while listening to music. Sound quality of mobile phones is getting much better  especially with phones equipped with internal DAC and amp. But after reading this forum I was convinced that I probably needed an external DAC/amp as music just doesn't sound very natural with the phone alone.
> 
> Well I was right. I'm quite impressed with the R2R so far. Music just sounds more natural and more engaging. And it's early days yet! I'll keep burning it in and see how it goes.


The R2R11 also works with a cheap Asus tablet, all sounds are diverted to the DAC. Hiby also works and this should be bit-perfect.


----------



## thyomit

I'm not sure if it's bit perfect with the LG V10. It says the music file is output as 48kHz (using Poweramp). Is it really better with bit perfect output to a dac?


----------



## bunkbail

Just bought a new set of headphones, Sennheiser HD660S, the synergy with R2R-11 is totally out of this world. Tried with my Gustard H10, the synergy is not as good with R2R-11 own amp section. Extremely resolving and musical. Literally can't stop listening to music right now!


----------



## VilMo

Hiby music is free to install. Try it for yourself. Should be a bit better, but difference is not dramatic


----------



## anoxy (Jan 27, 2018)

edit


----------



## FredA

My r2r 11 is coming in on Monday. Could be a match made in heaven with the he-560. You need a flat sounding heaphone or at least, this is my preference for the music style  i enjoy. But it will be used a pair of mdr-7506 at the office. This match also works great.


----------



## thyomit

I'll try Hiby Music and see if I can hear any difference, thanks VilMo for your tip!


----------



## SoniMax (Jan 27, 2018)

Quick update. I've only had time to try few different songs from few albums and there is seems to be no poping from Banshee music player on Kubuntu, still R2R 11 on USB 2.0. Also, if you turn the volume more than 12 o'clock with nothing playing the hiss is very audible


----------



## FredA (Jan 27, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> Quick update. I've only had time to try few different songs from few albums and there is seems to be no poping from Banshee music player on Kubuntu, still R2R 11 on USB 2.0. Also, if you turn the volume more than 12 o'clock with nothing playing the hiss is very audible


That would be normal on very sensitive hp. Or you might have a ground loop.


----------



## SoniMax

FredA said:


> That would be normal on very sensitive hp. Or you might have a ground loop.


It was with my Sennheiser HD600.
I haven't tried any IEMs on it yet...not because audio-gd advises against though  I am waiting for my replacement cable.


----------



## braaam

bunkbail said:


> Just bought a new set of headphones, Sennheiser HD660S, the synergy with R2R-11 is totally out of this world. Tried with my Gustard H10, the synergy is not as good with R2R-11 own amp section. Extremely resolving and musical. Literally can't stop listening to music right now!



I didn’t fully get that. Did you like it more or less with the Gustard? I’m a gustard H10 and R2R owner as well (currently exchanging my defective v5 opamps) so quite interested in your experience.


----------



## VilMo

After getting the R2R11 about 3 weeks ago, today I sold my Marantz HD-DAC1.

I have also put on sale: DigiOne player, SBooster linear power supply, nano iUSB3.0, and Singxer F1. 

SImply with R2R 11 I don't need them anymore. To me the jitter rejection of the combination of the Amanero USB board and the DA-8 R2R modules are great I and I just cannot find significant difference in SQ to justify keeping any of them. My connection now is  laptop -> iDefender 3.0 -> Supra USB cable -> R2R 11 and it souns great! 

This only shows what great value the R2R 11 is and that you don't need many tweaks to get amazing sound out of it.


----------



## VilMo (Jan 27, 2018)

Also i would like to share that using a USB cable with only data legs works great with the R2R 11 and the R2R 11 doesn't need power from the PC at any time.
I have tried this with Forza Audio Works twin USB cable plugging only the data leg and works like a charm even after restart. Unfortunately this cable is too short for regular use for me...
Anyway not having USB power running close to the USB data lines can only benefit the integrity of the data signal so this can only help IMHO. No need to throw crazy money at it though...


----------



## iamjaymo

VilMo said:


> After getting the R2R11 about 3 weeks ago, today I sold my Marantz HD-DAC1.
> 
> I have also put on sale: DigiOne player, SBooster linear power supply, nano iUSB3.0, and Singxer F1.
> 
> ...



Similar for me...the R2R has allowed me to simplify my rig and it provided a sound quality much better than more expensive gear I have tried.  One of the better audio purchases I have made in a long, long time.


----------



## VilMo

Yes, helps releave unnecessary audio nerviosa and keep thing simple and focused on the music, not the equipment.


----------



## YtseJamer

iamjaymo said:


> Similar for me...the R2R has allowed me to simplify my rig and it provided a sound quality much better than more expensive gear I have tried.  One of the better audio purchases I have made in a long, long time.



+1


----------



## Renato Fury

Did the hope of some NFB 11.28 buyers still talk about him? Or is this topic just about R2R 11 ?


----------



## Leopanda

Renato Fury said:


> Did the hope of some NFB 11.28 buyers still talk about him? Or is this topic just about R2R 11 ?



The answer is 5.

Guys, you won't make me believe that a usb cable can make any difference in sound!


----------



## Renato Fury

Leopanda said:


> The answer is 5.
> 
> Guys, you won't make me believe that a usb cable can make any difference in sound!


5 What ?


----------



## bunkbail

braaam said:


> I didn’t fully get that. Did you like it more or less with the Gustard? I’m a gustard H10 and R2R owner as well (currently exchanging my defective v5 opamps) so quite interested in your experience.


HD660S has great synergy with R2R-11, while the M1060 has great synergy with H10. My experience is that the H10 is with great planars (tried with M1060, LCD-2 pre-fazor, HE X v2), but not so much with high impedance dynamic headphones (tried with HD600, HD650, HD660S, HD700).


----------



## MorrisVentus

Hello community.

I am currently using R2R-11 with pc through optical cable.

Soon I have PS4 pro coming in. I am planning on using optical to ps4 pro, and usb to PC.

There are few questions I would like to ask.

1. Popping sound.
So far, with optical, I have not yet to experience any popping sound. Would I have popping issues with USB? I see many complaints about that in earlier pages of this thread.

2. Install process.
So do I simply download Amanero 384 driver for windows 10? Because I did hear about driver issues with windows 10 specifically.

It would be very kind of you to guide me with step by step procedure, and teach me what I should be aware.


Thank you.


----------



## JimJames

URGENT!!! R2R 11 vs Massdrop Liquid Carbon X + SDAC DAC/Amp, WHO WINS? (Prolly to pair with K712s, Shure 1840 or AD2000x)


----------



## Renato Fury

bunkbail said:


> HD660S has great synergy with R2R-11, while the M1060 has great synergy with H10. My experience is that the H10 is with great planars (tried with M1060, LCD-2 pre-fazor, HE X v2), but not so much with high impedance dynamic headphones (tried with HD600, HD650, HD660S, HD700).


----------



## VilMo

thyomit said:


> I'll try Hiby Music and see if I can hear any difference, thanks VilMo for your tip!


Let me know if you hear difference in your set-up when you do.


----------



## braaam

bunkbail said:


> HD660S has great synergy with R2R-11, while the M1060 has great synergy with H10. My experience is that the H10 is with great planars (tried with M1060, LCD-2 pre-fazor, HE X v2), but not so much with high impedance dynamic headphones (tried with HD600, HD650, HD660S, HD700).



I have to agree with you about the Sennheiser synergy. I’ve ran it mainly with my Senns and it really brings the HD 540 ref2 to life. Everything from soundstage, pinpoint imaging, palpable textures and timbre. You know, when you start a listening session early night, and somewhere around 02:00 in the morning you’re still fully engaged with the music. And it doesn’t even need much volume to achieve this.

When I tried the he-400i the result was much less satisfactory. Bland in the midrange and not nearly as alive. This one does better with tubes for sure.


----------



## bunkbail

braaam said:


> I have to agree with you about the Sennheiser synergy. I’ve ran it mainly with my Senns and it really brings the HD 540 ref2 to life. Everything from soundstage, pinpoint imaging, palpable textures and timbre. You know, when you start a listening session early night, and somewhere around 02:00 in the morning you’re still fully engaged with the music. And it doesn’t even need much volume to achieve this.
> 
> When I tried the he-400i the result was much less satisfactory. Bland in the midrange and not nearly as alive. This one does better with tubes for sure.


I've read somewhere in these threads that Kingwa's favorite headphone is HD800. So I wouldn't be surprised if those Audio-gd amps are made to revolve around Sennheisers.


----------



## thyomit

VilMo said:


> Let me know if you hear difference in your set-up when you do.


Sure thing. Can only listen to music in office these days, so it has to wait, ha-ha


----------



## Anaz

braaam said:


> I have to agree with you about the Sennheiser synergy. I’ve ran it mainly with my Senns and it really brings the HD 540 ref2 to life. Everything from soundstage, pinpoint imaging, palpable textures and timbre. You know, when you start a listening session early night, and somewhere around 02:00 in the morning you’re still fully engaged with the music. And it doesn’t even need much volume to achieve this.
> 
> When I tried the he-400i the result was much less satisfactory. Bland in the midrange and not nearly as alive. This one does better with tubes for sure.


I wouldn't have expected that with the HE 400i, which I've never heard, because I think the HE 560 with the R2R 11 sounds wonderful with a natural midrange and a nice ("musical" LOL) sparkle to the highs.  And to add to everyone else, Sennheiser HD 6XX sound great paired with the R2R 11.


----------



## Monsterzero

MorrisVentus said:


> 1. Popping sound.
> So far, with optical, I have not yet to experience any popping sound. Would I have popping issues with USB? I see many complaints about that in earlier pages of this thread.
> 
> 2. Install process.
> ...



I did not have any issues with the Amanero driver+Win10.
Popping only happened for me when one file ended that had a different bitrate to the next file.Since adding Schiit Eitr the popping has totally disappeared.
If you have worries I suggest getting the Eitr...No Amanero to worry about+improved performance+can keep your optical connection+no popping(after about a week for me) and if all else fails and you dont like it you can flip it to someone else for little to no loss....its in high demand at the moment.



JimJames said:


> URGENT!!! R2R 11 vs Massdrop Liquid Carbon X + SDAC DAC/Amp, WHO WINS? (Prolly to pair with K712s, Shure 1840 or AD2000x)



Cannot comment on any of the other HPs you mentioned but the R2R-11 makes my AD2000(non-X-version)sound better than any amp/DAC combo Ive tried.


----------



## MorrisVentus

monsterzero said:


> I did not have any issues with the Amanero driver+Win10.
> Popping only happened for me when one file ended that had a different bitrate to the next file.Since adding Schiit Eitr the popping has totally disappeared.
> If you have worries I suggest getting the Eitr...No Amanero to worry about+improved performance+can keep your optical connection+no popping(after about a week for me) and if all else fails and you dont like it you can flip it to someone else for little to no loss....its in high demand at the moment.
> 
> ...




Thank you for your comment.

Do you think you can briefly explain how to install the driver? do I just click on setup file and plug in usb?


----------



## Monsterzero

MorrisVentus said:


> Thank you for your comment.
> 
> Do you think you can briefly explain how to install the driver? do I just click on setup file and plug in usb?



Pretty much...You might have to go into your Windows settings and change the output preferences.Once you install the driver it should appear as an option(if it doesnt auto switch)


----------



## thyomit

VilMo said:


> Let me know if you hear difference in your set-up when you do.


Hi, VilMo
I cannot hear any difference between HibyMusic and Poweramp. (Maybe it's my ears though.) R2R-11 is only slightly better than listening through LG V10 right now. In this context, V10 is quite an impressive music player for a phone!


----------



## braaam (Jan 28, 2018)

Anaz said:


> I wouldn't have expected that with the HE 400i, which I've never heard, because I think the HE 560 with the R2R 11 sounds wonderful with a natural midrange and a nice ("musical" LOL) sparkle to the highs.  And to add to everyone else, Sennheiser HD 6XX sound great paired with the R2R 11.



Well, it’s just in comparison with the HD 540 ref2 - the difference in resolution and imaging is big. But the Senns are known to scale with good amps. This may not be the case with the 400i.

I’d expect the HE560 to outperform the 400i with a proper amp (based on several reviews).


----------



## iamjaymo

monsterzero said:


> Pretty much...You might have to go into your Windows settings and change the output preferences.Once you install the driver it should appear as an option(if it doesnt auto switch)



I’m sure Windows users are going to berate me for saying this but...in my experience it just works on a Mac!

Instructions: Plug in USB cable, power on, Audirvana finds “R2R Dac”, and play music. No drivers to find, install, test, analyze; no pops, nothing but music.

Think I’ve literally had 50 DACs in and out of here and the above instructions apply. Hope this doesn’t end up as a cable war but, it’s just my experience. The R2R is an amazing piece of gear - trying a Mac may be one way to enjoy it better. Note: I realize changing ones’s infrastructure isn’t easy or practical but it is one way. Enjoy the music!


----------



## bunkbail (Jan 28, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> Hope this doesn’t end up as a cable war


It is a common knowledge that lots of things are plug and play on Linux-based systems (Ubuntu, Mac OS X, Android etc.), audio devices are no exception to that as long as they are meeting the UAC/UAC2 specification.


----------



## Nadham

thyomit said:


> Hi, VilMo
> I cannot hear any difference between HibyMusic and Poweramp. (Maybe it's my ears though.) R2R-11 is only slightly better than listening through LG V10 right now. In this context, V10 is quite an impressive music player for a phone!


What headphones you use and what is the format of the music tracks? In my case, I was using Senn HD6xx and having music in mp3 format. My Dell laptop was sufficient enough to power Senn HD6xx to reasonable listening experience. When I got R2R 11 - I connected it to my laptop, installed necessary drivers and then played the mp3 files but not much difference in SQ. Below is what I did to get good SQ
1. Installed Foodbar and configured the outputs
2. Deleted all mp3 tracks and replaced it with FLACs at 16 bit/ 44.1 khz
3. Allowed R2R 11 to run for 15 days without switching off

Now the difference is like day and night, simply loving music all over again. Downside is that I am sleeping very late these days


----------



## bunkbail (Jan 28, 2018)

thyomit said:


> Hi, VilMo
> I cannot hear any difference between HibyMusic and Poweramp. (Maybe it's my ears though.) R2R-11 is only slightly better than listening through LG V10 right now. In this context, V10 is quite an impressive music player for a phone!


Are you using the stock ROM of the V10? If so, then the system is outputting resampled 48 kHz sample rate to the R2R-11 which is subpar than the native 44.1 kHz. I have a modded Galaxy S3 (custom ROM Lineage OS 14) which outputs the audio streams at native 44.1 kHz, it sounds much much better than my Galaxy S6, S7 and Nexus 6p, even though the S3 is a very old smartphone model. If you want a prove of this, try UAPP, it can do bit-perfect playbacks and you'll see that your music will sound much better than on other player. The trial version is available here (trial version is not available on Play Store for some reason).


----------



## thyomit

I tried it with HibyMusic that VilMo recommended and I set the output sample rate to 44.1 kHz. Honestly I could not hear obvious difference in SQ compared to using Poweramp which automatically set the sample rate to 48 kHz. Again it's probably my ears!! 

I use AKG K701 and I exclusively listen to FLAC files.

Anyway, I'm just happy that music coming out from both V10 and R2R-11 is enjoyable. In case my V10 dies, I don't have to buy an expensive phone again for audio capability.


----------



## Nadham

thyomit said:


> I tried it with HibyMusic that VilMo recommended and I set the output sample rate to 44.1 kHz. Honestly I could not hear obvious difference in SQ compared to using Poweramp which automatically set the sample rate to 48 kHz. Again it's probably my ears!!
> 
> I use AKG K701 and I exclusively listen to FLAC files.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just happy that music coming out from both V10 and R2R-11 is enjoyable. In case my V10 dies, I don't have to buy an expensive phone again for audio capability.


Try connecting R2R11 to a laptop if you have one - just to compare with LG V10.


----------



## VilMo (Jan 28, 2018)

thyomit said:


> I tried it with HibyMusic that VilMo recommended and I set the output sample rate to 44.1 kHz. Honestly I could not hear obvious difference in SQ compared to using Poweramp which automatically set the sample rate to 48 kHz. Again it's probably my ears!!
> 
> I use AKG K701 and I exclusively listen to FLAC files.
> 
> Anyway, I'm just happy that music coming out from both V10 and R2R-11 is enjoyable. In case my V10 dies, I don't have to buy an expensive phone again for audio capability.


thyomit, I agree with Nadham that burn-in of 200-300 hours are needed to get the R2R 11 to its potential, I did not like it a lot the first week.

Also Windows laptop with good USB cable sounds better to me than Android, in my case I have crappy USB OTG cable and a hard adapter I need to use, this could be the reason.

The V series by LG are well regarded for SQ and I believe they have  a very good sound. But I doubt that if you wait for the R2R11 to burn-in and use decent usb cable that you will not like it better than the V10.


----------



## thyomit

Nadham said:


> Try connecting R2R11 to a laptop if you have one - just to compare with LG V10.


Unfortunately company policy wouldn't allow me to install drivers in office computers and I don't have the time to listen to music at home, I just can't make the comparison. 

I'll keep burning and I'm sure it'll improve with time. Thanks for all your advice too!


----------



## phthora

What does the turnaround time look like for getting a quote, ordering, and then having goods shipped after payment? Shipping time is a wildcard, but how fast is Audio-gd on the parts of the ordering process that they control?

Also, any tips for making the ordering go more smoothly? I realize that there is a language barrier and I want make this easier on me and them.


----------



## alota

phthora said:


> What does the turnaround time look like for getting a quote, ordering, and then having goods shipped after payment? Shipping time is a wildcard, but how fast is Audio-gd on the parts of the ordering process that they control?
> 
> Also, any tips for making the ordering go more smoothly? I realize that there is a language barrier and I want make this easier on me and them.


Warning because next month is chinese holyday. Send a mail to kingwa


----------



## Nadham

phthora said:


> What does the turnaround time look like for getting a quote, ordering, and then having goods shipped after payment? Shipping time is a wildcard, but how fast is Audio-gd on the parts of the ordering process that they control?
> 
> Also, any tips for making the ordering go more smoothly? I realize that there is a language barrier and I want make this easier on me and them.


In my case they replied with a quote within 24 hours. If you are happy with it then you can make the payment and drop them an email, they will confirm the receipt of funds within 24 hours or less.


----------



## FredA (Jan 29, 2018)

I just got my r2r 11. I played music through  the toslink input outputting to my he-560. Good open sound but not much sub-bass control yet. A little too thin as well. Then i tried the amanero input, with about the same results. Needs some burning obviously,

But then...

I decided to test the rca input using a Haliday Bridge i had in hand, which is fully burned-in. The sound was holly f. cow good, bass and mids and highs and everything. The amanero needs to burn, but i am far from being sure it will beat the Bridge once burning is completed. The Bridge sounds so full. And it makes my he-560 sing! Just love the sound. How a unit costing as little as the r2r 11 can sound so good is beyond me. The amp is more than adequate for the he-560 and it will sound, combined to the he-560, like whatever the dac will play. And with the Bridge, to use a euphemism, i does play.


----------



## sanvara (Jan 30, 2018)

FredA said:


> I just got my r2r 11. I played music through  the toslink input outputting to my he-560. Good open sound but not much sub-bass control yet. A little too thin as well. Then i tried the amanero input, with about the same results. Needs some burning obviously,
> 
> But then...
> 
> I decided to test the rca input using a Haliday Bridge i had in hand, which is fully burned-in. The sound was holly f. cow good, bass and mids and highs and everything. The amanero needs to burn, but i am far from being sure it will beat the Bridge once burning is completed. The Bridge sounds so full. And it makes my he-560 sing! Just love the sound. How a unit costing as little as the r2r 11 can sound so good is beyond me. The amp is more than adequate for the he-560 and it will sound, combined to the he-560, like whatever the dac will play. And with the Bridge, to use a euphemism, i does play.



So sound quality is not great out of the box without a burned in Haliday Bridge?
What is a Haliday Bridge? Web search yields no results. Thanks.


----------



## alota

Sorry, wrong post


----------



## FredA

sanvara said:


> So sound quality is not great out of the box without a burned in Haliday Bridge?
> What is a Haliday Bridge? Web search yields no results. Thanks.


Made a typo.  It's the Halide Bridge usb to spdif interface.

Brand new, connected to a bad usb port, meaning one on the front of the pc, which are usually noisier, the r2r 11 sounds very good but is lacking bass and has a treble that is a little harsh/thin. 

This morning, after 10 hours, the Amanero sounds much better, but not comparable to the Bridge yet. And if i rely on comments, it should be very close  after break-in, howerer The Bridge has a warm, easy to like signature with big bass. The is what jitter patterns can do: even change the sound signature.

The Bridge costs 450$. It is quite a rip-off at that price knowing you can get Schiit Eitr or a Breeze, or many other better converter like the su-1 for much less money.


----------



## anoxy

I'm confused as well. What is this bridge you speak of? You have this because your PC doesn't have an optical port on the motherboard? Do I need one if my computer does?


----------



## FredA

This is it:

http://www.halidedesign.com/bridge/


----------



## anoxy

I still don't really understand the function or use-case. You're using this because the Optical port on your PC is "jittery"? Like, you can hear noise?


----------



## FredA

anoxy said:


> I still don't really understand the function or use-case. You're using this because the Optical port on your PC is "jittery"? Like, you can hear noise?


It is a miniature usb to spdif converter. Just like a Schiit Eitr but much smaller. Their is only one output: rca or bnc. Bnc is like rca with a different connector. 

Because, it was fully burned in, it was making the r2r 11 sound much better than the Amenero. With time, the sound quality difference is becoming smaller and smaller.


----------



## anoxy

Ah I see now. I didn't realize there's no optical output on the R2R11. Anyone know why they choose to not include it?


----------



## VilMo

There is one optical (Toslink) input on R2R 11.


----------



## SoniMax (Jan 31, 2018)

Just ordered an EITR. I hope it really kills the popping sound.
Quick question for those who use the R2R with Eitr, such as @bunkbail 
Did you keep the Amanero Drivers after you got the Eitr or did you only use EITR's drivers. I presume the latter, just asking to make sure.


----------



## thebkt (Jan 31, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> Just ordered an EITR. I hope it really kills the popping sound.
> Quick question for those who use the R2R with Eitr, such as @bunkbail
> Did you keep the Amanero Drivers after you got the Eitr or did you only use EITR's drivers. I presume the latter, just asking to make sure.


You use the Eitr's drivers.  The PC interfaces with the Eitr, which sends a clean digital signal to your DAC's SPDIF input.



anoxy said:


> Ah I see now. I didn't realize there's no optical output on the R2R11. Anyone know why they choose to not include it?


Because it's a DAC/Amp combo, so the DAC's outputting to the built in amp


----------



## tauceti

SoniMax said:


> Just ordered an EITR. I hope it really kills the popping sound.
> Quick question for those who use the R2R with Eitr, such as @bunkbail
> Did you keep the Amanero Drivers after you got the Eitr or did you only use EITR's drivers. I presume the latter, just asking to make sure.


You have to use the EITR drivers which for me are installed automatically by windows 10. No need to use the schiit provided Eitr drivers. You don't need amanero drivers as the usb cable is connected to Eitr.


----------



## bunkbail

SoniMax said:


> Just ordered an EITR. I hope it really kills the popping sound.
> Quick question for those who use the R2R with Eitr, such as @bunkbail
> Did you keep the Amanero Drivers after you got the Eitr or did you only use EITR's drivers. I presume the latter, just asking to make sure.


Eitr is plug and play with latest Windows 10, no need to install any drivers. I don't know about other windows/OS though. I use ASIO bridge with the Eitr from day 1, I don't know what it offers to the table I just use it because my friend told me to do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## SoniMax (Jan 31, 2018)

anoxy said:


> Ah I see now. I didn't realize there's no optical output on the R2R11. Anyone know why they choose to not include it?


----------



## SoniMax (Jan 31, 2018)

bunkbail said:


> Eitr is plug and play with latest Windows 10, no need to install any drivers. I don't know about other windows/OS though. I use ASIO bridge with the Eitr from day 1, I don't know what it offers to the table I just use it because my friend told me to do it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Just tried that virtual cable thing. There's no pop when I use it.


----------



## tauceti (Jan 31, 2018)

very very interesting I also don't have a Pop when using Eitr with coax input of R2R 11. Didn't even realize it until I read you statements above and tested it myself


----------



## DMB197641

I'm am enjoying my R2R-11 since I got it last week, feels like a big upgrade coming from a DX90 + Cayin C5.

Am following this thread about the Schiit Eitr, that option is completely new for me.
One question: What will be the benefit/difference listening to FLAC files from my PC-->(USB) Eitr--> (coax) R2R-11, compared to listening from my DX90 via coax into the R2R-11 ?


----------



## anoxy

I'm so confused now. Are there different versions of the R2R-11 or something?


----------



## alota

anoxy said:


> I'm so confused now. Are there different versions of the R2R-11 or something?


no. just one. why?


----------



## anoxy

alota said:


> no. just one. why?


Idk, that bridge thing just confused me.


----------



## alota

anoxy said:


> Idk, that bridge thing just confused me.


i have not read last part, but the bridge i assume is an interface from usb to coaxial or optical. r2r-11 has three digital input: coaxial, optical and usb(Amanero interface)


----------



## thebkt

DMB197641 said:


> I'm am enjoying my R2R-11 since I got it last week, feels like a big upgrade coming from a DX90 + Cayin C5.
> 
> Am following this thread about the Schiit Eitr, that option is completely new for me.
> One question: What will be the benefit/difference listening to FLAC files from my PC-->(USB) Eitr--> (coax) R2R-11, compared to listening from my DX90 via coax into the R2R-11 ?


Normally I'd just say 'grab the Eitr, it's great', but in that specific case... I don't know.  If you can't hear much difference between the DAP going into the R2R-11 and PC into R2R-11, then I'd say yes, get the Eitr.  For a PC at the very lease, it's a great improvement.


----------



## FredA

For jazz listening, the r2r 11 is a perfect partner to the Sony mdr-7506. Deep clean bass and everything you could wish for.


----------



## DMB197641

thebkt said:


> Normally I'd just say 'grab the Eitr, it's great', but in that specific case... I don't know.  If you can't hear much difference between the DAP going into the R2R-11 and PC into R2R-11, then I'd say yes, get the Eitr.  For a PC at the very lease, it's a great improvement.



Thanks for your answer..
I am doing some A/B testing at the moment, really can't notice any difference so far; it's easy to test this by switching from coax to USB, and start the songs at the exact same moment.. 
Same songs/files:
A: From PC USB into R2R-11 
B: DX90 coaxial into R2R-11.

So, that means Eitr should improve overall !?


----------



## thebkt

DMB197641 said:


> Thanks for your answer..
> I am doing some A/B testing at the moment, really can't notice any difference so far; it's easy to test this by switching from coax to USB, and start the songs at the exact same moment..
> Same songs/files:
> A: From PC USB into R2R-11
> ...


I imagine it would.  It certainly did for me and many others in the Eitr thread.  I was originally skeptical as to how much difference it would make, especially because I didn't suffer from any noise issues and couldn't really imagine how it'd improve things.  It did of course, though I didn't notice it very much immediately.  After listening to a few tracks it was clear I was hearing quite a few subtleties in a lot of tracks that I'd never heard before.  

From what I've read, the bigger Audio-gd DAC's have noise isolation solutions built in and wouldn't benefit nearly as much as the NFB/R2R-11.  This is very much the same case for me and my Mimby compared to the bigger Schiit DAC's which all have the Gen 5 benefits offered by the Eitr.


----------



## alota (Feb 1, 2018)

i´m trying too asiobridge. really interesting product. for now, almost cancelled the boring pop
p.s.: i don´t remeber the user who posted the link. my sincer thanks to him


----------



## FredA

Thr r2r 11 is amazing with he-560 for classical. What a nice soundstage and upper mid.


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> Thr r2r 11 is amazing with he-560 for classical. What a nice soundstage and upper mid.


I like how you are randomly inserting about these headphones when the thread is currently consumed by the Eitr.


----------



## FredA (Feb 1, 2018)

Just my o


s2kPanda said:


> I like how you are randomly inserting about these headphones when the thread is currently consumed by the Eitr.


Thanks.

The R2r 11 is such a nice combo. I am under the urge of sharing my listening impressions.

I also own the nfb-1amp that i combine with the r2r 7 dac. This is even a better combination for the he-560. But for only a fraction of the cost, you get a nice approximation with the r2r 11. I will let the r2r 11 burn for a while before making a final judgement but after only 50 hours, it is already amazing. I am not really into classical music that much but i swear the r2r 11 does play that style with a refinement that is quite unbelievable and i just enjoy it so much that i will start buying records. Classical is so hard to get right that it makes it unpopular. The r2r 11 really nails it paired with the he-560. This setup is only 800usd landed if you get the he-560 from Adorama. That is very little for a real taste of high-end.

The big setup sounds a little more crisp, resolved and dynamic and has better control over bass but is not that much more enjoyable.


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> Just my o
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you're enjoying it! I'm lucky that my R2R-11 pairs well with my Eikons, LCD-2Cs and my AFC. Pretty much reached my end game haha.


----------



## FredA (Feb 2, 2018)

s2kPanda said:


> I'm glad you're enjoying it! I'm lucky that my R2R-11 pairs well with my Eikons, LCD-2Cs and my AFC. Pretty much reached my end game haha.


Excuse me, off ropic.

Are the Eikons worth their price over the lcd-2cs? They look so high-end and high-valued even at that price. They have grabbed my attention. Which headphone set is your most often used?


----------



## Cosmic Shel

After reading most of the posts in this thread, I thought I would share my experience.  I ended up ordering the NFB-11.28 for a bedroom setup, primarily for TV listening on headphones, and some music listening.  Currently I have an old Audio-GD Sparrow > HD598se headphones that I use, but I'm giving it to my GF, hence the new purchase.  I thought that since it was more for TV and Movies, that the crisper NFB would be the better choice.  

Well I received it a couple of days ago, hooked it up to the TV's optical output that i have been using to the Sparrow, and it worked great, and provided a much more 3D/layered sound, which was terrific.  But, sadly the next day, it started to cut out every 2 seconds.  Tried restarting everything, different cable, moving it closer to the TV using a shorter cable to see if the long cable was the issue, but no luck.  It would work perfect with a CD player optical out, and coax worked great from both the CD player, and the Schiit Eitr from my laptop.  

So after trying everything I could think of, and all Kingwa could recommend, I'm sending it back, and exchanging it for the R2R 11.  Apparantly the ESS chip can be sensitive to optical signals. Not sure exactly how or why, but we're hoping the R2R will function fine with my TV's optical out.  /crossing fingers.

So, even though I had already joined to team of this thread title, I'll actually be getting the version everyone seems to prefer, and I'll share my opinions of it after some break in time.  I'll be able to compare it to my Office desktop setup, which is a Schiit Eiter > Bifrost Multibit > Valhalla 2 > Senn HD600 & Hd650's. 

If for some reason the R2R 11 dislikes optical, look for it to be listed for sale here, at a discount.    Though I truly hope it works great!!  

I apologize if I rambled a bit.
Shel


----------



## FredA (Feb 2, 2018)

Cosmic Shel said:


> After reading most of the posts in this thread, I thought I would share my experience.  I ended up ordering the NFB-11.28 for a bedroom setup, primarily for TV listening on headphones, and some music listening.  Currently I have an old Audio-GD Sparrow > HD598se headphones that I use, but I'm giving it to my GF, hence the new purchase.  I thought that since it was more for TV and Movies, that the crisper NFB would be the better choice.
> 
> Well I received it a couple of days ago, hooked it up to the TV's optical output that i have been using to the Sparrow, and it worked great, and provided a much more 3D/layered sound, which was terrific.  But, sadly the next day, it started to cut out every 2 seconds.  Tried restarting everything, different cable, moving it closer to the TV using a shorter cable to see if the long cable was the issue, but no luck.  It would work perfect with a CD player optical out, and coax worked great from both the CD player, and the Schiit Eitr from my laptop.
> 
> ...


I did try mine with an airport express and had no issue. So you should be fine. It is good to use a toslink made out of glass. Transmission is usually better with them. But i used a plastic one and it was fine. Some cable won't work with the r2r 11 (or nfb-11.28) cause the toslink connector in a bit recessed. Some of my cables would not clamp properly,


----------



## s2kPanda

FredA said:


> Excuse me, off ropic.
> 
> Are the Eikons worth their price over the lcd-2cs? They look so high-end and high-valued even at that price. They have grabbed my attention. Which headphone set is your most often used?


To me they are a tier above the LCD-2C but compliment it well because of how close to reference and tonally correct the headphones are. They are extremely detailed, have great separation, have really good sub-bass/bass extension and quite a decent soundstage for being a closed  back but they respond more like a semi-open pair of headphones so there is a small amount of sound leak out of them. 

Usually I grab the Eikons first but they can get quite fatiguing because of how much detail they have so eventually I'd switch over. They sound amazing with every genre hence why I could never buy the HE-560s. I didn't pay full price for mine, I got it at B-stock Atticus pricing so for me it was even more worth it considering this headphone is on the same tier as the HD800s, Clear and other TOTL priced headphones. No headphone is gonna give you double the performance for twice the price so you kinda just gotta let yourself be wowed rather than try and critically find all the little details every second. Definitely at my end game.


----------



## muckyfingers (Feb 2, 2018)

Disclaimer, I do not believe that I have golden ears, or anything close to it, I just enjoy various music.

I have an NFB-12.1 and just received my NFB R2R-11 a few days and have left it on playing music since then. I cannot tell a difference between them, sound/tonal quality wise. This is using the R2R-11 in the stock "Neutral" setting and 12.1 with settings on the unit on OS 8, and Filter 2, using 44/16 flac files as well as spotify premium, all on windows 10 being driven through Coax on the R2R-11 and optical on the 12.1 from an ASUS Xonar DG soundcard through ASIO with fidelify and foobar2000.

I have a little AV switcher connected to both amps which is connected to my Aeon Flow Open headphones, no tuning filter used in the Aeons for this. Connecting it this way allows me to volume match, by ear, to the best of my ability and switch back and forth immediately between the 2 amps as they play the same song at the same time.

The biggest or at least noticeable difference, even without quick A/B switching is using the "Warm" jumper setting on the R2R-11. This, to my ears, rolls off the treble a little and raises the low end a little, it seems to make everything sound a little fuller. Again, nothing crazy, just a slight change

Since I enjoy a non-fatiguing sound, I think I will keep the R2R-11 and leave it on the "Warm" setting.

That's my experience, I'll do some more listening/comparing over the weekend.


----------



## Monsterzero

I decided to add an aftermarket power cable to the Audio GD R2R-11.
This was the first time I have poked my head down this rabbit hole,but to my ears it makes a pretty significant improvement,most noticeably in the mids,separation and bass.

Its not a night vs. day difference and I still feel it sounds fine without a 14awg power cable but for a relatively small investment I think its worth it.


----------



## tauceti

I still cannot believe that a power cable would change/improve the sound...
With Eitr it does (which I didn't believe also) as there the data flow is improved...but with electricity/power supply???


----------



## VilMo

Feel free to disbelieve after you try one. You can return it if you do not like it.
Without being specialist in the matter I think it is the good shielding that counts and in both directions, also protecting the usb/rca cables from leakage from the mains.
Again, I accept the opposite point of view and would not like to argue over this topic.


----------



## Monsterzero

tauceti said:


> I still cannot believe that a power cable would change/improve the sound...
> With Eitr it does (which I didn't believe also) as there the data flow is improved...but with electricity/power supply???



I also run the Eitr in my system and bought that on a whim,and like you wasnt expecting much,and knew if it did nothing I could sell it for little loss rather quickly.Of course as you know the Eitr helped quite a bit. Same goes for this power cable.for $35.00,its a no-brainer,and if all else fails and you dont hear a difference send it back to Amazon.Im guessing after you hear the difference you wont send it back.

Just trying to help.If youre a non-believer,thats cool too.I have no vested interest in trying to sell cables.


----------



## tauceti

ok thanks I will think about it. But I have a question: If I have such a cable do I need to plug it also in a separate power supply? Because I don't have enough in the wall. I currently use power strip to power PC, Eitr, NFB, R2R etc. Does this cable make sense with a power strip or do you also have to plug it into a single wall socket?
Thanks!


----------



## VilMo

I use it from the same strip also, like you I do not have separate sockets.


----------



## Monsterzero

tauceti said:


> ok thanks I will think about it. But I have a question: If I have such a cable do I need to plug it also in a separate power supply? Because I don't have enough in the wall. I currently use power strip to power PC, Eitr, NFB, R2R etc. Does this cable make sense with a power strip or do you also have to plug it into a single wall socket?
> Thanks!





VilMo said:


> I use it from the same strip also, like you I do not have separate sockets.



Same.Plugging it into a power bar that my vintage receivers,Eitr,tube amp are also plugged into,nothing high end.


----------



## tauceti

Ok regarding Eitr: here you use the provided power cable?


----------



## SoniMax

Could you guys show me link to an EU version of one of those supposedly better power cables. I seem to only find US versions when I search for something similar to the ones you're mentioning here.


----------



## bunkbail

SoniMax said:


> Could you guys show me link to an EU version of one of those supposedly better power cables. I seem to only find US versions when I search for something similar to the ones you're mentioning here.


Yeah I can't seem to find UK plugs either.


----------



## FredA (Feb 3, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> Could you guys show me link to an EU version of one of those supposedly better power cables. I seem to only find US versions when I search for something similar to the ones you're mentioning here.


My favorite for audio-gd is one of these or similar:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-5M-PCS-Fu...040916?hash=item1ec27dc3d4:g:iZUAAOSwdGFYtunn

This cable is heavy so it could be inconvenient to use with a small combo. But i used a similar one with the di2014, which is even smaller.


----------



## FredA

bunkbail said:


> Yeah I can't seem to find UK plugs either.


Check these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_..._nkw=furukawa+audiophile+power+cable&_sacat=0


----------



## Lushy Brushy

I got the R2R 11 on Thursday and they sound really good out of the K712's. I think the amp is getting better by the second. But I've started to have occasional bursts of pink noise. Like a sudden dash of distortion that hurts my ears and interrupts the music. 
I think this started when I swapped to the variable and fixed on the switch for the first time but had nothing plugged in. I don't know what it is but it's a little annoying. The amp also arrived a little bit dinged and the paint in one of the white letters on the gain switch is rubbed.

This is the first time the noise has happened since I got the amp (3 days ago), I left it running most of the time.
Also, the amp at max low gain isn't enough for the K712's in some albums and in really quiet albums I went max high gain. Is there something wrong or are the K712's that hungry?


----------



## Monsterzero

AKG K712s arent the easiest headphone around to drive,but you shouldnt be able to max out the volume,even on low gain,let alone on high.
What are you feeding it with,computer?Make sure the volume on your source is set to 100%,both in Windows(or Mac) and on the player you are using. 

As far as pink noise...I assume youre referring to the pops that every one of us has heard at some point or the other? It happens when bitrates change.It seems that a Schiit Eitr has solved this issue for a few of us,including myself.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Feb 3, 2018)

monsterzero said:


> AKG K712s arent the easiest headphone around to drive,but you shouldnt be able to max out the volume,even on low gain,let alone on high.
> What are you feeding it with,computer?Make sure the volume on your source is set to 100%,both in Windows(or Mac) and on the player you are using.
> 
> As far as pink noise...I assume youre referring to the pops that every one of us has heard at some point or the other? It happens when bitrates change.It seems that a Schiit Eitr has solved this issue for a few of us,including myself.



Yes, with an iMac using Vox and feeding through USB. But I am not sure if it's the bitrates because it occurs in the middle of songs. It's the same sound my FX Audio X6 makes sometimes when changing to 96kHz, except that with the R2R is very short and completely random. I have other things plugged in around the amp. Maybe is that? I turned it off and on but same thing happening. I don't want to listen now because I'm scared of that noise destroying my ears .

And for most albums I have the pot at 2 o'clock on high gain, I think that's the sweet spot.


----------



## VilMo

FredA said:


> Just my o
> 
> I also own the nfb-1amp that i combine with the r2r 7 dac. This is even a better combination for the he-560. But for only a fraction of the cost, you get a nice approximation with the r2r 11. I will let the r2r 11 burn for a while before making a final judgement but after only 50 hours, it is already amazing. I am not really into classical music that much but i swear the r2r 11 does play that style with a refinement that is quite unbelievable and i just enjoy it so much that i will start buying records. Classical is so hard to get right that it makes it unpopular. The r2r 11 really nails it paired with the he-560. This setup is only 800usd landed if you get the he-560 from Adorama. That is very little for a real taste of high-end.
> 
> The big setup sounds a little more crisp, resolved and dynamic and has better control over bass but is not that much more enjoyable.


FredA, have you tried the nfb-1amp with the r2r 11? What differences do you spot if any? I wonder what will a higher-grade amp bring to r2r 11. Thanks.


----------



## Dodgers1988

I just ordered the NFB-11.28 and am going to pair them to the HE-500 and HD650. Should have I went R2R11 instead or did I make a ok choice?


----------



## JaMo

Dodgers1988 said:


> I just ordered the NFB-11.28 and am going to pair them to the HE-500 and HD650. Should have I went R2R11 instead or did I make a ok choice?



Hi, 
No, You will have a good match there. Both the HE500 and the HD650 has a slight warmth in them, so it is a good choice. 

Jan


----------



## Dodgers1988

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> No, You will have a good match there. Both the HE500 and the HD650 has a slight warmth in them, so it is a good choice.
> 
> Jan


Thanks been really seconding guessing not picking up the latest model. Why does the R2R have more warmth than the NFB? New headfier so I have no idea the different technologies.


----------



## JaMo (Feb 3, 2018)

Dodgers1988 said:


> Thanks been really seconding guessing not picking up the latest model. Why does the R2R have more warmth than the NFB? New headfier so I have no idea the different technologies.



Both the 11.28 and the R2R-11 are excellent for the money. Personally I like the R2R paired with very fast, clear and neutral speakers/headphones. All this is personal taste based on experiences. The differences between Delta Sigma (ESS9028Pro) and the R2R-architectures I will  leave to others to enlight. I just answer from my own experiences of the gears. (I actually own them all (11.28,R11,and the headphones)).

/Jan


----------



## Dodgers1988

JaMo said:


> Both the 11.28 and the R2R-11 are excellent for the money. Personally I like the R2R paired with very fast, clear and neutral speakers/headphones. All this is personal taste based on experiences. The differences between Delta Sigma (ESS9028Pro) and the R2R-architectures I will  leave to others to enlight. I just answer from my own experiences of the gears. (I actually own them all (11.28,R11,and the headphones).
> 
> /Jan


Is the R2R more colored than the NFB11? I more just wondering why you prefer the R2R with very fast, clear and neutral headphones.


----------



## FredA

Lushy Brushy said:


> I got the R2R 11 on Thursday and they sound really good out of the K712's. I think the amp is getting better by the second. But I've started to have occasional bursts of pink noise. Like a sudden dash of distortion that hurts my ears and interrupts the music.
> I think this started when I swapped to the variable and fixed on the switch for the first time but had nothing plugged in. I don't know what it is but it's a little annoying. The amp also arrived a little bit dinged and the paint in one of the white letters on the gain switch is rubbed.
> 
> This is the first time the noise has happened since I got the amp (3 days ago), I left it running most of the time.
> Also, the amp at max low gain isn't enough for the K712's in some albums and in really quiet albums I went max high gain. Is there something wrong or are the K712's that hungry?


Based on the k701, that is normal.


----------



## FredA

VilMo said:


> FredA, have you tried the nfb-1amp with the r2r 11? What differences do you spot if any? I wonder what will a higher-grade amp bring to r2r 11. Thanks.


I haven't. But after 50 hours on the r2r 11, i can tell at this stage that the amp on the r2r 11, driving the hungry he-560, does not reach as low in the spectrum as the nfb-1amp used balanced (or even single-ended). It could change with break-in but my guess is it won't. Otherwise, the pairing between both is excellent, especially for classical. For less hungry headphones, the sound is really similar and would be hard to tell apart. Normally, because of the volume control being superior, the nfb-1amp could have a small advantage even with easy cans, but i would have to try. Also, the cable used to hook up the two would get into the equation, having its signature, so comparing is tricky.


----------



## FredA (Feb 3, 2018)

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yes, with an iMac using Vox and feeding through USB. But I am not sure if it's the bitrates because it occurs in the middle of songs. It's the same sound my FX Audio X6 makes sometimes when changing to 96kHz, except that with the R2R is very short and completely random. I have other things plugged in around the amp. Maybe is that? I turned it off and on but same thing happening. I don't want to listen now because I'm scared of that noise destroying my ears .
> 
> And for most albums I have the pot at 2 o'clock on high gain, I think that's the sweet spot.


One limitation of the r2r 11, i believe, is it has crosstalk between the digital inputs. To be confirmed. Following that logic, you should turn off the connected gears you are not listening to, if possible. Otherwise, get the nfb11 instead,


----------



## simon740

Hello,

what do you think which is better(R2R-11 or nfb-11.28) for my hifi setup: Jolida JD302 BRC + WLM La Scala monitor?

regards,
Simon


----------



## FredA

simon740 said:


> Hello,
> 
> what do you think which is better(R2R-11 or nfb-11.28) for my hifi setup: Jolida JD302 BRC + WLM La Scala monitor?
> 
> ...



With tubes, i would get the nfb-11.


----------



## Anaz

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yes, with an iMac using Vox and feeding through USB. But I am not sure if it's the bitrates because it occurs in the middle of songs. It's the same sound my FX Audio X6 makes sometimes when changing to 96kHz, except that with the R2R is very short and completely random. I have other things plugged in around the amp. Maybe is that? I turned it off and on but same thing happening. I don't want to listen now because I'm scared of that noise destroying my ears .
> 
> And for most albums I have the pot at 2 o'clock on high gain, I think that's the sweet spot.


I don't have the issues you're having using iTunes on a MacBook Pro and Mac mini (there's a very small "pop" when stopping/starting music, but not between songs).  My normal listening volume (low gain) on an HD 6XX is at 9:30, and at 11:30 on an HE-560.


----------



## Anaz

FredA said:


> I haven't. But after 50 hours on the r2r 11, i can tell at this stage that the amp on the r2r 11, driving the hungry he-560, does not reach as low in the spectrum as the nfb-1amp used balanced (or even single-ended). It could change with break-in but my guess is it won't. Otherwise, the pairing between both is excellent, especially for classical. For less hungry headphones, the sound is really similar and would be hard to tell apart. Normally, because of the volume control being superior, the nfb-1amp could have a small advantage even with easy cans, but i would have to try. Also, the cable used to hook up the two would get into the equation, having its signature, so comparing is tricky.


Just looked up the NFP-1 AMP...dude, that has *four* times the output power of the R2R 11!!! ...I thought the HE-560 sounded fantastic using an R2R 11...LOL now I have to try them with something more powerful!!


----------



## natto

Anaz said:


> I don't have the issues you're having using iTunes on a MacBook Pro and Mac mini (there's a very small "pop" when stopping/starting music, but not between songs).  My normal listening volume (low gain) on an HD 6XX is at 9:30, and at 11:30 on an HE-560.



Does power on R2R enough to drive HE-560?


----------



## simon740

FredA said:


> With tubes, i would get the nfb-11.



Now I have  
*HIFIMEDIY U2 ASYNCHRONOUS USB DAC*
     with sabre chip so I need something better. I’m looking something more neutral, because I like synergy between JoLida and Wlm. I’m very satisfied with this sound character.

Regards,
Simon


----------



## JaMo

simon740 said:


> Now I have
> *HIFIMEDIY U2 ASYNCHRONOUS USB DAC*
> with sabre chip so I need something better. I’m looking something more neutral, because I like synergy between JoLida and Wlm. I’m very satisfied with this sound character.
> 
> ...


Hi, FredA's advise is vaild. The 11.28 is the most neutral You can get. Theese dacs plays in a higher league than Your Hifimediy U2, for sure.
/Jan


----------



## JaMo

Dodgers1988 said:


> Is the R2R more colored than the NFB11? I more just wondering why you prefer the R2R with very fast, clear and neutral headphones.


Hi, 
The R2R-11 is just a complete sounding dac that not benefit from any coloration of amps, speakers/headphones. This is my own opinion. Probably shared by many others. But everyone has his/her rights to have other preferences, of course.

/Jan


----------



## FredA

Anaz said:


> Just looked up the NFP-1 AMP...dude, that has *four* times the output power of the R2R 11!!! ...I thought the HE-560 sounded fantastic using an R2R 11...LOL now I have to try them with something more powerful!!


The condition is you use the balanced out. Otherwise, the c-2 is a better option. Overall, you will get slightly better sound with the nfb-1amp used balanced compared to the c-2 (single-ended amp).

The obvious difference in sound is these bigger amps drive the  bass better and there is more bass extentsion with the he-560. But the r2r 11 and nfb-11 are  competent enough to get the most out of these.

This is the law of diminishing return. It is not a night and day difference. One great upgrade option to consider is a used master-11 singularity. Now you are talking definitive end game or really close. But, in the mean time, enjoy your small combo. Indepedently of the price, they are so good. They are near high-end. More than just a taste of it. They are just 2% inferior to what is best at most. My home setup is barely more enjoyable.

I listened to some well recorded Mozart played by a quartet the other day, the he-560 driven by the r2r 11 with barely 50 hours on it. I was in heaven. Mozart was such a genius, and the r2r 11 makes it obvious.


----------



## FredA (Feb 3, 2018)

simon740 said:


> Now I have
> *HIFIMEDIY U2 ASYNCHRONOUS USB DAC*
> with sabre chip so I need something better. I’m looking something more neutral, because I like synergy between JoLida and Wlm. I’m very satisfied with this sound character.
> 
> ...


The nfb-11 or r2r 11 should be significantly better. Or get a Schiit Mody Multibit. I would take audio-gd over Schiit in that price range but the Mimby is a still a great value.


----------



## mishoristov

Anyone tried the R2R 11 with upsampling to DSD256? how is that compared playing in "native" bitrate of the songs.


----------



## simon740

@FredA  and @JaMo ...thanks
In the past, I had Aune S16 and Naim DAC-V1
but not in this system (Jolida+WLM). Although Jolida + WLM play together very transparently, openly and quite differently than other tube systems
In short, I'm looking for a DAC up to 700€.

regards,
Simon


----------



## FredA (Feb 3, 2018)

simon740 said:


> @FredA  and @JaMo ...thanks
> In the past, I had Aune S16 and Naim DAC-V1
> but not in this system (Jolida+WLM). Although Jolida + WLM play together very transparently, openly and quite differently than other tube systems
> In short, I'm looking for a DAC up to 700€.
> ...


I would go either r2r 1 or r2r 2. Or maybe the nfb1.38. The first two should do a better job with low quality spdif signals. These are the best values for that kind of money IMO, but just by dediuction, since there is not much feedback on them. You should note the first two need a long break-in period.

I would personnaly go for the r2r 1, if i had to choose, because it is balanced and it has an efficient de-jittering circuit. And it can be firmware-upgraded (same for the r2r 2). It has everything to be the best dac under 1k.


----------



## Anaz

natto said:


> Does power on R2R enough to drive HE-560?


Yes, I think it's great (plus I'm only at 11:30 on low gain).  Also see FredA's post #984


FredA said:


> The condition is you use the balanced out. Otherwise, the c-2 is a better option. Overall, you will get slightly better sound with the nfb-1amp used balanced compared to the c-2 (single-ended amp).
> 
> The obvious difference in sound is these bigger amps drive the  bass better and there is more bass extentsion with the he-560. But the r2r 11 and nfb-11 are  competent enough to get the most out of these.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anaz

FredA said:


> The condition is you use the balanced out. Otherwise, the c-2 is a better option. Overall, you will get slightly better sound with the nfb-1amp used balanced compared to the c-2 (single-ended amp).
> 
> The obvious difference in sound is these bigger amps drive the  bass better and there is more bass extentsion with the he-560. But the r2r 11 and nfb-11 are  competent enough to get the most out of these.
> 
> ...


Informative post, thanks! Also, thanks for the tip about classical music because after your post I listened to select scenes from Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen which I wouldn't have done otherwise.


----------



## FredA (Feb 3, 2018)

Anaz said:


> Informative post, thanks! Also, thanks for the tip about classical music because after your post I listened to select scenes from Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen which I wouldn't have done otherwise.


Classical sounds thin with many dacs out there, as if they become lean for some reason with that music style. Still you need the sound to be opened, with a well develop upper mid. And you need to maintain a natural balance at the same time. The r2r 11 does all this very well.


----------



## simon740

FredA said:


> I would go either r2r 1 or r2r 2. Or maybe the nfb1.38. The first two should do a better job with low quality spdif signals. These are the best values for that kind of money IMO, but just by dediuction, since there is not much feedback on them. You should note the first two need a long break-in period.
> 
> I would personnaly go for the r2r 1, if i had to choose, because it is balanced and it has an efficient de-jittering circuit. And it can be firmware-upgraded (same for the r2r 2). It has everything to be the best dac under 1k.



Thank you. I will check R2R-1 or 2

regards,
Simon


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, just finished reading all 67 pages of this thread! Got my R2R-11 last week and been using it consistently since then with both my LCD-2 (2016F) and ZMF Atticus. Initially I bought it to compare to it to my SS combo of ifi Micro iDSD (used as a dac only) and Matrix HPA-3B fully balanced amp. My interest was piqued by all the talk of this ‘mystical’ R2R ladder dac that’s supposed to make music sound natural and ‘non-digital’, and at worse I figured I could sell it on - even at a profit - because of the huge demand for this amp in my country.

I won’t go into too much detail just yet because I’m still in the hypothetical ‘burn in’ stage, but I can tell you that after a few days I already knew what was going to be sold - my ifi and Matrix! The R2R-11 simply has better synergy with both my headphones, whereas the Atticus, until now, was limited to use on my Woo WA3 because it didn’t like the SS setup too much (flat and unexciting would be how I’d describe the Atticus sound with my solid state gear).

Issues? Yes - there’s some faint scratching, almost radio-noise sounding artefacts with some DSD files (such as Amber Rubarth’s ‘Sessions from the 17th Ward’), only audible in the silent parts of her songs. This doesn’t happen with every DSD album, and in fact is absent from most, but is still there. Troubleshooting with Kingwa suggests it could be an Amanero issue (isn’t everything!?) so I believe a firmware fix is in the works.

I also had an issue with a loud screeching sound before the ‘pops’ at the start of DSD playback, but this seems to have completely disappeared after a few hours’ burn in.

As for the pops, yes they’re there at the start of each sample rate change, but not when switching between songs or jumping to different parts of a song. Sounds like the sound you get when you lower the needle onto vinyl for the first time; it’s really not that bad and quickly forgotten, and like I said doesn’t affect playback during an album.

I have to say I’m surprised by all the complaints about these pops on this thread. The R2R-11 product page clearly describes them, and the fact that they’re there because the mute circuit was left out of the amp by design. So it’s not like it’s a surprise - it’s a known limitation, so if you can’t live with it, move on. My ifi iDSD has mute circuitry for the same issue, which introduces a 2-second silence at the start of an album or during a sample rate change, which is far more annoying than the R2R-11 pop. At least the R2R plays a song from the start, whereas the iDSD loses the first second or two.

One last comment on the pops/DSD issues, given all the talk of Eitr around here. Clearly most of you don’t listen to DSDs, otherwise the Eitr would be a no-go. Just be aware that if you want and need DSD playback like I do, you may come across minor issues with the R2R-11, and the Eitr won’t solve them.

So now that I’ve got all the ‘issues’ out of the way, let me just say this is the best amp/dac combo I have ever heard, bar none. It’s indeed more natural than my previous benchmark dac (the dual Burr Brown 1793 hybrid multibit ifi iDSD). It also drives my LCD-2 superbly, and the Atticus even better. Some people I’ve spoken to don’t like the extra ‘warmth’ it gives the Atticus, but I think it gives the Atticus a level of bass slam reminiscent of my all-time favorite bass cans, the Fostex TH-X00, and makes the Atticus the perfect foil for the more neutral, laid back LCD-2.

It feels strange that a single ended amp could have more power and energy than a fully balanced amp (which on paper has even more power than the R2R), but I’ve vilume matched the R2R and Matrix and indeed the R2R drives both my 70ohm and 300ohm headphones louder and with more authority. I don’t know what Voodoo magic Kingwa uses in this $350 amp, but it bests my $900 dac/amp combo. Not night and day, but last time I checked $350 was much less than $900.

I’ll come back here often with more impressions, and offer help or advice where I can. Glad to finally say I’m part of the R2R-11 community!


----------



## gLer

Lushy Brushy said:


> I got the R2R 11 on Thursday and they sound really good out of the K712's. I think the amp is getting better by the second. But I've started to have occasional bursts of pink noise. Like a sudden dash of distortion that hurts my ears and interrupts the music.
> I think this started when I swapped to the variable and fixed on the switch for the first time but had nothing plugged in. I don't know what it is but it's a little annoying. The amp also arrived a little bit dinged and the paint in one of the white letters on the gain switch is rubbed.
> 
> This is the first time the noise has happened since I got the amp (3 days ago), I left it running most of the time.
> Also, the amp at max low gain isn't enough for the K712's in some albums and in really quiet albums I went max high gain. Is there something wrong or are the K712's that hungry?


I have similar issues but not limited to the R2R-11. It only happens when you’re doing other processor intensive stuff with the Mac (like Lightroom edits for example). This will slow down and even break up the music stream, resulting in the pink noise/scratching sound you get during playback. Stop all other tasks and the noises disappear. Either that or get a faster Mac


----------



## bunkbail (Feb 4, 2018)

gLer said:


> Just be aware that if you want and need DSD playback like I do, you may come across minor issues with the R2R-11, and the Eitr won’t solve them.


All Schiit products don't have DSD support, even the TOTL DAC Yggdrasil.


----------



## gLer

bunkbail said:


> All Schiit products don't have DSD support, even the TOTL DAC Yggdrasil.


I know, which is why I avoid them.


----------



## SoniMax

gLer said:


> The R2R-11 product page clearly describes them, and the fact that they’re there because the mute circuit was left out of the amp by design. So it’s not like it’s a surprise - it’s a known limitation, so if you can’t live with it, move on.


They added that information recently.
"we got some questions about the USB INPUT, about a little pop "
Guess who asked them those questions lol. I asked them before receiving the r2r what was the best way to minimise this pop I had yet to hear and Kingwa sent me the 3 asio settings pictures, which are on the page of the r2r now. Also, after I got the r2r itself, I wrote to them asking if they knew of/could recommend any software or hardware solutions that would fully get rid od the pop. The day after I got Kingwa's reply, most of the things he told me in the email about the pop and the nature of the r2r were added to/expanded on the page of the r2r.
I am still adjusting. I don't know if you start paying less attention to the pop or it really gets quieter after time.

I am disappointed to hear this about the lack of DSD support of the Eitr, as I have one on the way. I tried a few dsd songs and I felt like the first time I listened to a lossless format.


----------



## VilMo

The pop was much stronger at the beginning, now it is indeed like pop of vinyl - faint and not bothersome at all. Really this is not an issue at all for me.


----------



## gLer (Feb 4, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> They added that information recently.
> "we got some questions about the USB INPUT, about a little pop "
> Guess who asked them those questions lol. I asked them before receiving the r2r what was the best way to minimise this pop I had yet to hear and Kingwa sent me the 3 asio settings pictures, which are on the page of the r2r now. Also, after I got the r2r itself, I wrote to them asking if they knew of/could recommend any software or hardware solutions that would fully get rid od the pop. The day after I got Kingwa's reply, most of the things he told me in the email about the pop and the nature of the r2r were added to/expanded on the page of the r2r.
> I am still adjusting. I don't know if you start paying less attention to the pop or it really gets quieter after time.
> ...


Great job getting the pop issue into the open then! Many dacs have ‘issues’ with sample rate change, mainly due to their USB interfaces. As I mentioned my iDSD handles it slightly differently, and I actually prefer the faint pop of the R2R to the truncated audio from the ifi. Of course there are many dacs that’s don’t have this issue, so I have no idea where the real solution rests. Personally it doesn’t bother me, because I don’t listen to playlists with multiple sample rates and only listen to full albums.

Also, I haven’t tested what happens if you upsample all your playback to say 192 or 384, and of that stops the pop from happening because it’s getting a single sample rate feed all the time. I’ll test it and report back here.

As for the DSD issue, hopefully it’s just minor and Kingwa comes up with a workable solution. Who knows, maybe he’ll add it to the R2R page as well. Of course if you aren’t against converting your DSDs to PCM, then the problem goes away entirely, as PCM playback is flawless.

Lastly, I’m afraid you’re out of luck if you like your DSDs and want to use a Schitt device. They have a stupid policy against supporting DSD for some reason, and it’s cost them at least one customer I know of - me 

For anyone reading this and thinking this little gem has too many flaws - don’t! It’s superb. It sounds better than dacs and amps that cost twice or three times the price, and even if you can hear differences in much ‘better’ gear, I honestly believe it’s more flavour differences and very subtle technicalities. Most importantly, the R2R dac renders digital audio in a different (and to me preferable) way to most delta sigma designs - even the TOTL expensive Sabres - and you may just end up preferring it just for this fact alone.

EDIT: I can confirm that upsampling your files in software to a single sample rate eliminates the pops when changing songs or albums. At least that's the case for me on my iMac with Audirvana+ 3.2.5. There is still a slight pop when switching from PCM to DSD and back, but nothing between PCM tracks - even flac, alac and mp3 tracks with different sample rates - when you upsample in software. I'm not sure if upsampling in software somehow negates the benefits of the NOS dac, so maybe someone else with more technical knowledge can answer that for us.


----------



## VilMo (Feb 4, 2018)

Post 1000!
(Just couldn't resist... )


----------



## gLer

Quick burn-in question guys. I have my R2R-11 sending audio to my monitor speakers via line out. If I switch off the speakers (but leave the R2R playing music in a loop) can I assume the dac/amp is still getting "burned in" even though you can't hear it?


----------



## I g o r

gLer said:


> Quick burn-in question guys. I have my R2R-11 sending audio to my monitor speakers via line out. If I switch off the speakers (but leave the R2R playing music in a loop) can I assume the dac/amp is still getting "burned in" even though you can't hear it?



Yes, Kingwa said only leaving the amp on is sufficient for burn in.


----------



## gLer

I g o r said:


> Yes, Kingwa said only leaving the amp on is sufficient for burn in.


Thanks, so it doesn't even need to be playing music? That's odd. Don't half the components just sit idle then, no flowing current? So it's more like bake-in than burn-in


----------



## I g o r

gLer said:


> Thanks, so it doesn't even need to be playing music? That's odd. Don't half the components just sit idle then, no flowing current? So it's more like bake-in than burn-in



No music necessary. Current is flowing through all components, even “idle”.


----------



## alota

every day that passes, i think this is high-end for the masses. Fortunately!!


----------



## winja

gLer said:


> Hey guys, just finished reading all 67 pages of this thread! Got my R2R-11 last week and been using it consistently since then with both my LCD-2 (2016F) and ZMF Atticus. Initially I bought it to compare to it to my SS combo of ifi Micro iDSD (used as a dac only) and Matrix HPA-3B fully balanced amp. My interest was piqued by all the talk of this ‘mystical’ R2R ladder dac that’s supposed to make music sound natural and ‘non-digital’, and at worse I figured I could sell it on - even at a profit - because of the huge demand for this amp in my country.
> 
> I won’t go into too much detail just yet because I’m still in the hypothetical ‘burn in’ stage, but I can tell you that after a few days I already knew what was going to be sold - my ifi and Matrix! The R2R-11 simply has better synergy with both my headphones, whereas the Atticus, until now, was limited to use on my Woo WA3 because it didn’t like the SS setup too much (flat and unexciting would be how I’d describe the Atticus sound with my solid state gear).
> 
> ...



Can you comment about the R2R 11's ability to retrive details and its soundstage comparing to the Matrix? I have the Matrix currently and just like to hear some opinions about the 2 gears. My headphones are not power hungry so power is not an issue for me.

Also, thank you for bringing the pop issues to light. I have a Yggdrasil, and I used to have the optical out from my Creative X-fi to the Yggdrasil. Doing that made the Yggdrasil made a click sound constantly, every time the sample rates were changed. I couldn't stand it either so I changed to another SPDIF transport, and the clicking are gone. So the R2R 11 is not the only dac that has this problem. I don't have the R2R 11 yet but I could see how the pop sounds come about.


----------



## gLer

winja said:


> Can you comment about the R2R 11's ability to retrive details and its soundstage comparing to the Matrix? I have the Matrix currently and just like to hear some opinions about the 2 gears. My headphones are not power hungry so power is not an issue for me.


I have no real complaints about the detail retrieval or soundstage from either. I also don’t think my ears are experienced enough to quantify any subtle difference you might hear, and I honestly think the headphones have much more of an influence on soundstage and details than amping. As long as you have good headphones I don’t think either amp will let you down. It ultimately comes down to synergy - both the R2R and Matrix have great synergy with my LCD-2F, but only the R2R pairs really well with my Atticus. The Matrix is fine with the Atticus, but the R2R gives it more slam. I’d say the dac is the star of the show when it comes to the R2R - as I said elsewhere the dac/amp combination of the R2R sounds better with my headphones than my $900 Matrix/ifi combo.


----------



## winja

gLer said:


> I have no real complaints about the detail retrieval or soundstage from either. I also don’t think my ears are experienced enough to quantify any subtle difference you might hear, and I honestly think the headphones have much more of an influence on soundstage and details than amping. As long as you have good headphones I don’t think either amp will let you down. It ultimately comes down to synergy - both the R2R and Matrix have great synergy with my LCD-2F, but only the R2R pairs really well with my Atticus. The Matrix is fine with the Atticus, but the R2R gives it more slam. I’d say the dac is the star of the show when it comes to the R2R - as I said elsewhere the dac/amp combination of the R2R sounds better with my headphones than my $900 Matrix/ifi combo.



Thank you for your feedback. I'm getting closer and closer to order an R2R Dac from Audio GD.


----------



## Autostart

What a great combo. The dac on the R2R 11 feeding my Woo WA22. The dac is so great I'm thinking about getting the R2R 1.


----------



## FredA

Here is my r2r 11 check list after a week and approx. 120 hours,  wtih the easy to drive mdr-7506:

Extented and smooth highs: check
Extended lows: check
Well defined bass: check
Smooth and resolved sound: check
Very very good tonal balance (neutrality): check
Rich medium: check
Wide and deep soundstage: check
Good microdynamics: check
Good macrodynamics: check
Very transparent without much coloration, if any: check

Soundwise, it's excellent all around with pretty much all music styles i have tried. It's a very rare thing for a dac to be competent in an all these areas for so little money. Hence my alluding to it as entry-level high-end. Most audiophiles under a budget out there have never heard a dac sounding so good as part of their setups.

I think this a result of a short digital signal path, great conversion boards, excellent usb interface, and an overall proven design (no negative feeback, dc coupling, acss, class-A, double-stage oversized old school psus).

Now as a dac/amp driving the 7506s, although these have tremedous qualities and are a steal under 100$, the r2r 11 deserves better cans. Not too hard to drive planars, for instance. I tried the r2r 11 briefly with the k701 and was very pleased with the combination. Close to what i get with the he-560 only with better/deeper bass, the k701 being easier to drive.


----------



## YJX94

FredA said:


> Here is my r2r 11 check list after a week and approx. 120 hours,  wtih the easy to drive mdr-7506:
> 
> Extented and smooth highs: check
> Extended lows: check
> ...


How does the R2R 11 handle the (non-existent) bass, treble, soundstage and imaging of the K701 and have you tried the warm setting with the jumpers?


----------



## FredA (Feb 5, 2018)

YJX94 said:


> How does the R2R 11 handle the (non-existent) bass, treble, soundstage and imaging of the K701 and have you tried the warm setting with the jumpers?


I never found the bass to be non existant on the k701 but always had a dac and amp that were capable enough for it to be well defined, punchy and extended. As far as quantity, it is not a generous set, but frankly, i don't like exagerated bass. Quality over quantity is what I look for.

I have not tried the smooth setting (jumper). The thing is the r2r 11 adds a little bit of mids which suits the k701 and makes it more enjoyable. It was only a  short trial i did but i found the combination very promising. Nothing was standing out as bad or lacking.


----------



## YJX94

FredA said:


> I never found the bass to be non existant on the k701 but always had a dac and amp that were capable enough for it to be well defined, punchy and extended. As far as quantity, it is not a generous set, but frankly, i don't like exagerated bass. Quality over quantity is what I look for.
> 
> I have not tried the smooth setting (jumper). The thing is the r2r 11 adds a little bit of mids which suits the k701 and makes it more enjoyable.


I know the bass isn't non-existent but it's simply not satisfying enough, bass port mod and K712 pads will fix that.  I've heard the warm jumper setting completely ruins the treble so it's probably for extremely piercingly bright headphones or it just sucks like I've seen people say.  Since you have the R2R 11 you should test it and give this thread your feedback on that too.


----------



## FredA

YJX94 said:


> I know the bass isn't non-existent but it's simply not satisfying enough, bass port mod and K712 pads will fix that.  I've heard the warm jumper setting completely ruins the treble so it's probably for extremely piercingly bright headphones or it just sucks like I've seen people say.  Since you have the R2R 11 you should test it and give this thread your feedback on that too.


I could but there is not a single good comment, or perhaps just one on this jumper setting. The thing is the r2r 11 sounds great as is. I really have absolutely no interest in changing what i consider to be an excellent balance. 

I have not done the bass port mod on my k701 either, but they are the Chinese-made ones. They may not have the infamous bass problem. I tried to unlock the gridded caps to perform the mod, but they seemed glued there. I gave up. I like them as is anyway. One good thing about them is they feature a 4-wire cable which can be re-terminated for balance operation, which i did. Got a small sound upgrade with this.

These days, the he-560 get all the listening time in my home setup. I use the r2r 11 with the 7506 at the office. I might get a semi-closed set of akg for the office, like the k240pro, or something better within a budget.


----------



## YJX94

FredA said:


> I could but there is not a single good comment, or perhaps just one on this jumper setting. The thing is the r2r 11 sounds great as is. I really have absolutely no interest in changing what i consider to be an excellent balance.
> 
> I have not done the bass port mod on my k701 either, but they are the Chinese-made ones. They may not have the infamous bass problem. I tried to unlock the gridded caps to perform the mod, but they seemed glued there. I gave up. I like them as is anyway. One good thing about them is they feature a 4-wire cable which can be re-terminated for balance operation, which i did. Got a small sound upgrade with this.
> 
> These days, the he-560 get all the listening time in my home setup. I use the r2r 11 with the 7506 at the office. I might get a semi-closed set of akg for the office, like the k240pro, or something better within a budget.


Still try the jumper setting yourself and see in the name of research, won't take long.  Also for the K701 if the bass port mod cannot be done then I suggest trying out the K712 pads for it, they are super comfy and bring up the bass too.

As for the office you should take a look at the AKG K550 MKIII, it's one of the best closed backs under $200.


----------



## FredA

YJX94 said:


> Still try the jumper setting yourself and see in the name of research, won't take long.  Also for the K701 if the bass port mod cannot be done then I suggest trying out the K712 pads for it, they are super comfy and bring up the bass too.
> 
> As for the office you should take a look at the AKG K550 MKIII, it's one of the best closed backs under $200.


My r2r 11 is at the office and my k701 are home. So can't try the setting tonight, sorry. I might try it with the Sonys tomorrow, but i may not have time. Thanks for the hp advise.


----------



## YJX94

FredA said:


> My r2r 11 is at the office and my k701 are home. So can't try the setting tonight, sorry. I might try it with the Sonys tomorrow, but i may not have time. Thanks for the hp advise.


No rush, try it whenever you can if you want to leave feedback on it here.


----------



## YJX94

FredA said:


> My r2r 11 is at the office and my k701 are home. So can't try the setting tonight, sorry. I might try it with the Sonys tomorrow, but i may not have time. Thanks for the hp advise.


Forgot to ask you something.  The NFB-11.28 has digital filter settings inside which you can tinker with, they're basically a hardware equaliser.  Nothing is said about this on the R2R 11 on its official page on the audio gd website, does the R2R 11 have these too?


----------



## FredA

YJX94 said:


> Forgot to ask you something.  The NFB-11.28 has digital filter settings inside which you can tinker with, they're basically a hardware equaliser.  Nothing is said about this on the R2R 11 on its official page on the audio gd website, does the R2R 11 have these too?


No. The only setting is the with jumpers.


----------



## thyomit

FredA said:


> I could but there is not a single good comment, or perhaps just one on this jumper setting. The thing is the r2r 11 sounds great as is. I really have absolutely no interest in changing what i consider to be an excellent balance.
> 
> I have not done the bass port mod on my k701 either, but they are the Chinese-made ones. They may not have the infamous bass problem. I tried to unlock the gridded caps to perform the mod, but they seemed glued there. I gave up. I like them as is anyway. One good thing about them is they feature a 4-wire cable which can be re-terminated for balance operation, which i did. Got a small sound upgrade with this.
> 
> These days, the he-560 get all the listening time in my home setup. I use the r2r 11 with the 7506 at the office. I might get a semi-closed set of akg for the office, like the k240pro, or something better within a budget.


I also have the Chinese made k701 and the gridded caps are not glued on, not mine anyway. I did the bass mod and the lows did improve noticeably. Just need some force to untwist the caps.


----------



## SoniMax

My R2R started acting up few minutes ago. The right channel started producing this hissing sound as if changing the freq on the radio.
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1KfJVW3e9F2
I, first, thought it might be a problem with my speakers which were connected to the R2R through the 6.33m jack but then I plugged in my headphones and the right channel was producing the same sound.
Has any one encountered this issue?
It's happening on my laptop via USB. Sadly, I don't have an optical cable (I don't think my laptop supports optical at all, too) to check if it is the USB that is causing the problem.
I have just emailed audio g-d. Hopefully there is a simple solution that won't require me sending it back and waiting for a new one.


----------



## trials1n

tldr: I purchased a Schiit Eitr for my NFB-11.28 and wasn't totally happy with the improvements.

This if the first post for me here after lurking on this thread for quite a while.  When I purchased my NFB-11.28 last September, I wasn't yet aware of the R2R-11.  In the months that followed, reading through all the hype on the R2R-11 caused me to feel a little bit of buyer's remorse at times, but then I would listen to the NFB-11.28 and forget about all that.  I've been extremely happy with the sound of the NFB-11.28 paired with HD-650s.  It's pure, detailed bliss.

This brings me to the Schiit Eitr.  Even thought the NFB-11.28 has been nearly flawless for me, I've experienced a few minor quirks with the Amanero interface in Windows 10.  For example, sometimes Windows won't output any audio after the computer wakes from sleep, which is easily fixed by closing and reopening all applications that use the device.  System sounds became a no-go as well, because the first hundred or so milliseconds of the noises would get cut off.  This was remedied by disabling system sounds, so no big loss there.

When I started seeing the rave reviews of the Schiit Eitr pop up in this thread, I was intrigued.  I wanted to give it a try to see if it would cure the Amanero's quirks, and I was also curious to see if it would improve the sound quality of the NFB-11.28.  Most (if not all) of the accounts in this thread seemed to be about how it pairs with the R2R-11.

I received the Schiit Eitr last week and my initial impressions were very positive.  It addressed the minor Windows quirks I mentioned above, and I immediately noticed a big difference in sound as well.  The NFB-11.28 already has a reputation for conveying lots of clarity and detail, but the Schiit Eitr took it even further.  It's hard for me to describe the differences since I'm relatively new to this hobby, but the Eitr made higher-frequency treble details like cymbals and clicky sounds stand out more.  Overall, it sounded like there was more separation between highs/lows, and between the different instruments in a recording.  I was also noticing small details in recordings that hadn't stood out to me before.

Even though I was intrigued by the Schiit Eitr's effect on the NFB-11.28's sound, I also had a sense that music was noticeably more fatiguing to listen to.  I decided to give myself 4-5 days to see if I'd get used to it.  On the 5th day, I did a bunch of A-B testing between the built-in Amanero and Schiit Eitr.  After about 30 minutes of going back and forth, I decided that the sound of the Amanero is more pleasing to my ears even though it's not quite as detailed.  The Schiit Eitr is an impressive device, but I'm not sure if it pairs as well with the NFB-11.28 as it does with the R2R-11.  I wish I had an R2R-11 on hand to compare.


----------



## FredA

trials1n said:


> tldr: I purchased a Schiit Eitr for my NFB-11.28 and wasn't totally happy with the improvements.
> 
> This if the first post for me here after lurking on this thread for quite a while.  When I purchased my NFB-11.28 last September, I wasn't yet aware of the R2R-11.  In the months that followed, reading through all the hype on the R2R-11 caused me to feel a little bit of buyer's remorse at times, but then I would listen to the NFB-11.28 and forget about all that.  I've been extremely happy with the sound of the NFB-11.28 paired with HD-650s.  It's pure, detailed bliss.
> 
> ...


These converters can make the sound brighter or less bright, depending on which one. Jitter or the lack of it can have effects anywhere in the spectrum. It's as important as anything  as far as the sound characteristic of a dac is concerned.


----------



## FredA (Feb 6, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> My R2R started acting up few minutes ago. The right channel started producing this hissing sound as if changing the freq on the radio.
> https://vocaroo.com/i/s1KfJVW3e9F2
> I, first, thought it might be a problem with my speakers which were connected to the R2R through the 6.33m jack but then I plugged in my headphones and the right channel was producing the same sound.
> Has any one encountered this issue?
> ...


Restart your playback sw, then try rebooting.

On my machine, the r2r 11 has been playing continuously for over a week without any problem. I use the latest foobar with wasapi on windows 7.


----------



## alota

I saw this
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/159/index.html
Probably a good alternative to schiit


----------



## YJX94

thyomit said:


> I also have the Chinese made k701 and the gridded caps are not glued on, not mine anyway. I did the bass mod and the lows did improve noticeably. Just need some force to untwist the caps.


Did it improve bass presence or impact or both etc?


----------



## Lushy Brushy

My R2R-11 is having the same pink noise my Fx-audio x6 had but here it is worse because it happens without warning anywhere during songs. This is *extremely* annoying now. I am running an iMac and running the R2R through USB, I have the wireless keyboard and a usb wireless mouse connected to the computer as well as some speakers via the 3.5 input and that's it. I thought it could be overheating so I opened the windows in my room but I have no idea why it's producing such a horrible noise. Specially when I turn the volume up and this noise rapes my ears . 

Anyone have similar problems? Suggestions? I have no clue as to what the issue may be. Happens randomly at any time!!!!!


----------



## HiFi7352

Can I use the RCA DAC output as RCA in for a CD player for example or a phone? I find it strange the R2R not having a RCA input.


----------



## gLer

Lushy Brushy said:


> My R2R-11 is having the same pink noise my Fx-audio x6 had but here it is worse because it happens without warning anywhere during songs. This is *extremely* annoying now. I am running an iMac and running the R2R through USB, I have the wireless keyboard and a usb wireless mouse connected to the computer as well as some speakers via the 3.5 input and that's it. I thought it could be overheating so I opened the windows in my room but I have no idea why it's producing such a horrible noise. Specially when I turn the volume up and this noise rapes my ears .
> 
> Anyone have similar problems? Suggestions? I have no clue as to what the issue may be. Happens randomly at any time!!!!!


Does it happen when you’re playing a specific file type, like DSD? I can tell you at least a few units I know of have faint radio noise in at least one channel when playing back DSD files, and that Audio-GD are working on a fix. Not sure if your issue is the same. Could also be a faulty USB cable, or possibly your CPU is working too hard and affecting the audio signal - happens in my 27” iMac if I’m listening while stressing it out with Lightroom.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Feb 7, 2018)

gLer said:


> Does it happen when you’re playing a specific file type, like DSD? I can tell you at least a few units I know of have faint radio noise in at least one channel when playing back DSD files, and that Audio-GD are working on a fix. Not sure if your issue is the same. Could also be a faulty USB cable, or possibly your CPU is working too hard and affecting the audio signal - happens in my 27” iMac if I’m listening while stressing it out with Lightroom.



I think this is different because the whole headphone goes pink noise really loud, then I have to pause the song or give it a little time. I've come to the conclusion that the R2R was overheating because the problem never happens when I open my windows to let some air in and the R2R doesn't get as hot, so maybe it needs some ventilation (Australia gets pretty hot).

Now the problem is I live next to a main road and the train line, so with the windows open I can hear every detail in cars' engines (lacks a little sub bass) instead of the details in the music .


----------



## tauceti

trials1n said:


> tldr: I purchased a Schiit Eitr for my NFB-11.28 and wasn't totally happy with the improvements.
> 
> This if the first post for me here after lurking on this thread for quite a while.  When I purchased my NFB-11.28 last September, I wasn't yet aware of the R2R-11.  In the months that followed, reading through all the hype on the R2R-11 caused me to feel a little bit of buyer's remorse at times, but then I would listen to the NFB-11.28 and forget about all that.  I've been extremely happy with the sound of the NFB-11.28 paired with HD-650s.  It's pure, detailed bliss.
> 
> ...



I have Eitr and both NFB 11.28 and R2R 11 and tried both with Eitr. As you describe the better clarity and separation I can confirm that with the NFB 11.28 and also with R2R 11. I really like it and don't find the sound fatiguing. Perhaps thats why I like the NFB 11.28 a little bit more as it provides still more clarity which I prefer over the R2R 11. Still I need to further burn in both devices. Note: Both devices are very similar and Eitr improves that even more and for me removed the popping noise on R2R 11. You will also need a good coax cable. Currently thinking about getting a better power cable where some guys here said it would improve sound. Don't really believe it but perhaps I'll give it a try.


----------



## FredA

tauceti said:


> I have Eitr and both NFB 11.28 and R2R 11 and tried both with Eitr. As you describe the better clarity and separation I can confirm that with the NFB 11.28 and also with R2R 11. I really like it and don't find the sound fatiguing. Perhaps thats why I like the NFB 11.28 a little bit more as it provides still more clarity which I prefer over the R2R 11. Still I need to further burn in both devices. Note: Both devices are very similar and Eitr improves that even more and for me removed the popping noise on R2R 11. You will also need a good coax cable. Currently thinking about getting a better power cable where some guys here said it would improve sound. Don't really believe it but perhaps I'll give it a try.


About the power cable upgrade, just a monoprice 14awg should give an upgrade, i will not use anything pricier. I use a similar cable (i.e. not from monoprice) and my r2r 11 has perfect bass and everything. It is a small upgrade.

I also use a jitterbug. Some kind of udb isolation/filtering can be useful,


----------



## FredA

Lushy Brushy said:


> I think this is different because the whole headphone goes pink noise really loud, then I have to pause the song or give it a little time. I've come to the conclusion that the R2R was overheating because the problem never happens when I open my windows to let some air in and the R2R doesn't get as hot, so maybe it needs some ventilation (Australia gets pretty hot).
> 
> Now the problem is I live next to a main road and the train line, so with the windows open I can hear every detail in cars' engines (lacks a little sub bass) instead of the details in the music .


You might have a hardware problem, bad soldering point or something. Or bad amanero board, if you only have the problem with usb.


----------



## SoniMax (Feb 7, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> My R2R started acting up few minutes ago. The right channel started producing this hissing sound as if changing the freq on the radio.
> https://vocaroo.com/i/s1KfJVW3e9F2
> I, first, thought it might be a problem with my speakers which were connected to the R2R through the 6.33m jack but then I plugged in my headphones and the right channel was producing the same sound.
> Has any one encountered this issue?
> ...



That's the problem I was trying to describe yesterday.
I will most probably have to return the unit to China. I was asked if I could check the right channel chip with a DC meter but I don't have one at hand. I might get one tomorrow.


----------



## braaam

Lushy Brushy said:


> I think this is different because the whole headphone goes pink noise really loud, then I have to pause the song or give it a little time. I've come to the conclusion that the R2R was overheating because the problem never happens when I open my windows to let some air in and the R2R doesn't get as hot, so maybe it needs some ventilation (Australia gets pretty hot).
> 
> Now the problem is I live next to a main road and the train line, so with the windows open I can hear every detail in cars' engines (lacks a little sub bass) instead of the details in the music .



Similar issues have been discussed in this thread. In my case, switching to an amazon basics usb cable solved it.


----------



## gLer

tauceti said:


> I have Eitr and both NFB 11.28 and R2R 11 and tried both with Eitr. As you describe the better clarity and separation I can confirm that with the NFB 11.28 and also with R2R 11. I really like it and don't find the sound fatiguing. Perhaps thats why I like the NFB 11.28 a little bit more as it provides still more clarity which I prefer over the R2R 11. Still I need to further burn in both devices. Note: Both devices are very similar and Eitr improves that even more and for me removed the popping noise on R2R 11. You will also need a good coax cable. Currently thinking about getting a better power cable where some guys here said it would improve sound. Don't really believe it but perhaps I'll give it a try.


Just remember you lose DSD support if you use an Eitr. That may or may not be important to you.


----------



## thyomit

YJX94 said:


> Did it improve bass presence or impact or both etc?


I think it's more presence than impact. Music seems to have fuller body if you know what I mean. Never regretted doing the mod.


----------



## YJX94

thyomit said:


> I think it's more presence than impact. Music seems to have fuller body if you know what I mean. Never regretted doing the mod.


Have you tried the K701 with the K712/Annie pads? the K712/Annie pads also add warmth as well.


----------



## Dodgers1988

Just got my NFB11.28 and these HD650s in the mail today. Im shocked at how good they sound.


----------



## Dodgers1988

.


----------



## VilMo

More and more people discover those gems  it is really amazing what insight into the music those humble-priced combos can achieve!
Other companies would make big deal out of this, and there would be much more publications and coverage.
But it seems this forum is right now the best source of publicity R2R (and also Sabre) DACS from Audio-GD get and it is up to us owners to spread the news.
I would recommend this without reservations. The price to satisfaction ratio for this product is off the charts for these ears and brain. 
VilMo knock-out award honestly earned !


----------



## SoniMax (Feb 7, 2018)

I am getting second thoughts. I don't know after I send my R2R back to China whether to ask for an NFB instead of a replacement R2R or a refund to try the Emotiva A-100 with a multibit or sth else 
How are you guys finding the A-100, @s2kPanda @CoFire @bunkbail


----------



## iamjaymo (Feb 16, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> I am getting second thoughts. I don't know after I send my R2R back to China whether to ask for an NFB instead of a replacement R2R or a refund to try the Emotiva A-100 with a multibit or sth else
> How are you guys finding the A-100, @s2kPanda @CoFire @bunkbail



I own the A-100...it’s good, real good, but not as good as the R2R IMO. It does have more power, if that is important to you.


----------



## SoniMax (Feb 7, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> I own an A-100...it’s good, not as good as the R2R. It does have more power, if that is important to you.


Power would not be that important, i believe. I barely go over 9 o'çlock with my HD 600 from the R2R. I am just not sure if the R2R technology is reliable enough. If you saw this 
it is making me, if not hesitant about Audio G-D, a bit hesitant about the implementation of the R2R. That's why I've been thinking the past 2 days if I should, either, try their Sabre AMP/DACs or just a comparable AMP like the A-100 or Audio G-D's NFB1 and some other (?more reliable) DAC.

I remember watching Zeos (not that he is a flawless reviewer, if a reviewer at all) and he was saying that the A-100 is just slightly worse than the NFB1 which costs 3x the A-100 and is supposed to be better than the R2R's AMP


----------



## FredA (Feb 7, 2018)

Lushy Brushy said:


> My R2R-11 is having the same pink noise my Fx-audio x6 had but here it is worse because it happens without warning anywhere during songs. This is *extremely* annoying now. I am running an iMac and running the R2R through USB, I have the wireless keyboard and a usb wireless mouse connected to the computer as well as some speakers via the 3.5 input and that's it. I thought it could be overheating so I opened the windows in my room but I have no idea why it's producing such a horrible noise. Specially when I turn the volume up and this noise rapes my ears .
> 
> Anyone have similar problems? Suggestions? I have no clue as to what the issue may be. Happens randomly at any time!!!!!


Most likely due to your computer itself. Try a different usb port. You could have a very noisy component plugged to a usb port causing all the problems. You could try a hub as well.


----------



## thyomit

YJX94 said:


> Have you tried the K701 with the K712/Annie pads? the K712/Annie pads also add warmth as well.


Wouldn't do anything else at this point now that music sounds just right to my ears! Only wish I had more time to enjoy it. Thanks for the tip though 
P.s. This is one thing that I might try: connecting my CD player to r2r with an optical cable. (Yes, I do have lots of CDs.) Anyone has experience of doing so and how does the music sound compared to coming out from computers?


----------



## Monsterzero

SoniMax said:


> ....



How do you have your system configured?
I dont see where youre going into the R2R-11.


----------



## SoniMax (Feb 8, 2018)

monsterzero said:


> How do you have your system configured?
> I dont see where youre going into the R2R-11.


Yes; exactly. This noise is there whether the r2r is plugged in my laptop or not. Audio g-d are speculating it might be a badly soldered right channel chip.


----------



## RojasTKD

Quick question for you R2R 11 owners. 

I just ordered am R2R 11 to replace my older NFB-11 (2014 unite with 2015 upgraded power supply) Ann's one of the things I don't like is how it cuts of the beginning of songs when you first click play (same worth YouTube videos). 

Can any of you confirm this is no longer an issue with the R2R 11?

Thanks!


----------



## gLer

RojasTKD said:


> Quick question for you R2R 11 owners.
> 
> I just ordered am R2R 11 to replace my older NFB-11 (2014 unite with 2015 upgraded power supply) Ann's one of the things I don't like is how it cuts of the beginning of songs when you first click play (same worth YouTube videos).
> 
> ...


Sounds like your old NFB is the same as my ifi Micro iDSD. It basically mutes the first two seconds of play after it’s been on idle or during a sample rate change. The R2R-11 doesn’t have that mute circuit, but instead you’ll hear two faint ‘pops’ (like vinyl pops) whenever it changes sample rate (using USB). This apparently goes away when using coax or optical but then you lose DSD support. Personally I have no issue with the pops, but YMMV.


----------



## RojasTKD

gLer said:


> Sounds like your old NFB is the same as my ifi Micro iDSD. It basically mutes the first two seconds of play after it’s been on idle or during a sample rate change. The R2R-11 doesn’t have that mute circuit, but instead you’ll hear two faint ‘pops’ (like vinyl pops) whenever it changes sample rate (using USB). This apparently goes away when using coax or optical but then you lose DSD support. Personally I have no issue with the pops, but YMMV.



Thanks for the confirmation! 

I think I can live with the "pops". I've read mixed reports of it happening or when using an input other than USB. I plan to use USB 2.0 as it's said to minimize the pops, at least for some.

I also have a iDSD Black Lable so having a DAC/Amp doesn't mute the start of songs will be nice.


----------



## ctaxxxx

monsterzero said:


> I decided to add an aftermarket power cable to the Audio GD R2R-11.
> This was the first time I have poked my head down this rabbit hole,but to my ears it makes a pretty significant improvement,most noticeably in the mids,separation and bass.
> 
> Its not a night vs. day difference and I still feel it sounds fine without a 14awg power cable but for a relatively small investment I think its worth it.



I'm a little interested in trying this. I had a question though. When I did some researching, I saw there are power conditioners that do the same thing (reduce EMI / RFI interference). You think this would be a better investment if using multiple audio equipment? I'm assuming that would mean I could use the stock cable for these devices as well, as opposed to buying multiple high-end power cables. If anyone has such a thing, your input would also be much appreciated.


----------



## phthora

ctaxxxx said:


> I'm a little interested in trying this. I had a question though. When I did some researching, I saw there are power conditioners that do the same thing (reduce EMI / RFI interference). You think this would be a better investment if using multiple audio equipment? I'm assuming that would mean I could use the stock cable for these devices as well, as opposed to buying multiple high-end power cables. If anyone has such a thing, your input would also be much appreciated.



Power conditioners smooth out spikes in voltages (including surge protection), and even out the flow of electricity to be as consistent as possible (something like 60hz/120V/15A); power cables (good ones) shield the electricity in the cable from producing EMI/RFI simply through the passage of electricity, however "clean," noise that can be picked up by sensitive equipment. So, they do different work. The benefits of each are hotly contested, but _in my opinion_ they each provide enough benefit to the sound and safety of equipment to be worth a modest investment. A Pangea power cable that demonstrably produces no EMF can be purchased for $50.


----------



## ctaxxxx

phthora said:


> Power conditioners smooth out spikes in voltages (including surge protection), and even out the flow of electricity to be as consistent as possible (something like 60hz/120V/15A); power cables (good ones) shield the electricity in the cable from producing EMI/RFI simply through the passage of electricity, however "clean," noise that can be picked up by sensitive equipment. So, they do different work. The benefits of each are hotly contested, but _in my opinion_ they each provide enough benefit to the sound and safety of equipment to be worth a modest investment. A Pangea power cable that demonstrably produces no EMF can be purchased for $50.



I might just go with the Pangea cable, since some additional research suggest more expensive power conditioners would only make a difference (like $1000+!!). Was only looking to spend around $50 lol.

Last question before I buy. My digital source goes like this:

Surface Pro 4 --> USB Hub --> Sound Blaster X7 --_optical out_--> R2R 11
I use the X7 for it's DSP mainly. Would buying the power cable for only the R2R 11 still make a difference? Would I need it for the X7 as well, even though it uses a AC/DC adapter?

I just realized this is starting to get a little complicated... FYI, I also just bought a new USB hub (60W) since the old one (15W) kept cutting out. Maybe this is all I really need...


----------



## phthora

ctaxxxx said:


> I might just go with the Pangea cable, since some additional research suggest more expensive power conditioners would only make a difference (like $1000+!!). Was only looking to spend around $50 lol.
> 
> Last question before I buy. My digital source goes like this:
> 
> ...



Furman makes a very reasonably price power conditioner, about $150. Considering that a decent power strip/surge protector can run $50, I think the price is very good. Surge protection in some form is a must, as are additional outlets given your set-up.
https://www.amazon.com/Furman-PST-8-Aluminum-Protection-Conditioning/dp/B000YYVLAK

The effects of the EMF produced by a poorly shielded power cord will have the most effect on the signals of other ports. So, for example, if you have a power cable plugged in right next to the USB input or RCAs, it can cause an audible buzzing. On the other end, the headphone port is usually far enough away that it won't be effected, but that relies on a number of things, including the quality of the cable, distance, and the amount of power going through the cable. Anyway, you should get the most benefit by replacing the power cord closest to the inputs and with the most power running through it. The R2R 11, in other words. The X7 might need one also, but your ears will tell you if that is the case. My guess is that distance between the X7 and R2R should alleviate any effects from the X7's power cable.


----------



## tauceti

gLer said:


> Sounds like your old NFB is the same as my ifi Micro iDSD. It basically mutes the first two seconds of play after it’s been on idle or during a sample rate change. The R2R-11 doesn’t have that mute circuit, but instead you’ll hear two faint ‘pops’ (like vinyl pops) whenever it changes sample rate (using USB). This apparently goes away when using coax or optical but then you lose DSD support. Personally I have no issue with the pops, but YMMV.


but I will loose DSD support only with Eitr as Eitr doesn't support it. With other usb -> coax devices it may work?


----------



## gLer

tauceti said:


> but I will loose DSD support only with Eitr as Eitr doesn't support it. With other usb -> coax devices it may work?


I’m not sure, possibly. Not many DACs can do DSD over coax. Schitt just doesn’t support DSD at all for some strange reason.


----------



## bunkbail (Feb 9, 2018)

tauceti said:


> but I will loose DSD support only with Eitr as Eitr doesn't support it. With other usb -> coax devices it may work?


Technically DSD support is possible via all digital interface like USB, optical, coax (RCA/BNC), AES and I2S, but AFAIK Audio-gd DACs only support DSD on USB and I2S.

EDIT: According to the R2R-11 page, DSD support is available over USB only on the R2R-11.


----------



## CoFire

ctaxxxx said:


> I might just go with the Pangea cable, since some additional research suggest more expensive power conditioners would only make a difference (like $1000+!!). Was only looking to spend around $50 lol.
> 
> Last question before I buy. My digital source goes like this:
> 
> ...



I would definitely recommend a power conditioner for any valuable electronics and definitely NOT a surge protector. Basic difference is a surge protector removes AC voltage spikes by shunting them to ground which still cause further damaging disturbances (N-G events). Because of how surge protectors work, they are somewhat unpredictable in function due to differences in electrical environment and still allow some initial spike through to your equipment due to response time. As far as I know, they all have this design limitation. Power conditioners also provide surge protection but also include an isolation transformer and some type of power noise filtering. The key is true isolation from the power grid meaning that blenders, vacuums, etc in your house and your neighbors houses aren't causing "ripples" that dirty your device's power. I haven't even talked about power line inductance and impedences which vary all over depending on where you live, your electrical wiring, and again your neighbors (aka power grid buddies).

At work, I have many pieces of high dollar industrial equipment around the lab and I have indirectly seen dirty power (AC voltage spikes) take out electronics that are designed to operate in field type environments get taken out in a room temperature, moderated environment. Meaning its not use or harsh weather beating on electronics, but something else. Since incorporating these conditioners, I have seen zero failures in these electronics that are "cause unknown" because you don't typically see this damage, it just happens one day unless you're unlucky enough I guess to experience a major brown or black out. I'm fairly confident in this conclusion because I was replacing electronic modules like clockwork until I added protection. 

I always like to think of power as a calm lake. Everytime someone uses electricity, imagine them dropping an object into the lake and where you plan to drop your object, you'll see ripples from the other user which is in this analogy is dirty power. 

I agree with @phthora about power cable isolation. I just saw some potentially interchanging of surge protection and power conditioning terminology and felt obligated to comment. I think surge protectors for sensitive electronics are practically useless. Especially with modern electronics.


----------



## phthora

CoFire said:


> I would definitely recommend a power conditioner for any valuable electronics and definitely NOT a surge protector. Basic difference is a surge protector removes AC voltage spikes by shunting them to ground which still cause further damaging disturbances (N-G events). Because of how surge protectors work, they are somewhat unpredictable in function due to differences in electrical environment and still allow some initial spike through to your equipment due to response time. As far as I know, they all have this design limitation. Power conditioners also provide surge protection but also include an isolation transformer and some type of power noise filtering. The key is true isolation from the power grid meaning that blenders, vacuums, etc in your house and your neighbors houses aren't causing "ripples" that dirty your device's power. I haven't even talked about power line inductance and impedences which vary all over depending on where you live, your electrical wiring, and again your neighbors (aka power grid buddies).
> 
> At work, I have many pieces of high dollar industrial equipment around the lab and I have indirectly seen dirty power (AC voltage spikes) take out electronics that are designed to operate in field type environments get taken out in a room temperature, moderated environment. Meaning its not use or harsh weather beating on electronics, but something else. Since incorporating these conditioners, I have seen zero failures in these electronics that are "cause unknown" because you don't typically see this damage, it just happens one day unless you're unlucky enough I guess to experience a major brown or black out. I'm fairly confident in this conclusion because I was replacing electronic modules like clockwork until I added protection.
> 
> ...



Excellent advice! I hadn't realized that surge protectors were so worthless. My interest in a power conditioner was mostly because my desktop amps get buzzy drawing through my power strip which, annoyingly, was not that cheap to begin with. Guess I know why now. Thanks for clarifying!


----------



## CoFire

SoniMax said:


> I am getting second thoughts. I don't know after I send my R2R back to China whether to ask for an NFB instead of a replacement R2R or a refund to try the Emotiva A-100 with a multibit or sth else
> How are you guys finding the A-100, @s2kPanda @CoFire @bunkbail



I didn't have a ton of time with the A100, I had it for months but listened to it for a couple weeks out of that time. I was comparing a Grace m9XX, the Mimby, and A100. Grace had a warmer DAC and the Mimby slightly more detail, more cold sounding. The Grace and A100 drove the 400i equivalently but A100 excelled with the HD6XX by far, no comparison, though the HD6XX didn't sound bad on the Grace, just not the same level of life/dynamics. The m9XX can drive sensitive IEMs to fairly power hungry headphones but the A100 has tons of power especially with the jumpers in place but I don't think has a sensitive enough pot to drive IEMs (didn't test this). With the jumpers in place, you are essentially driving headphones with speaker taps. I can't speak to noise floor of both setups though I didn't perceive any issues. 

The a Grace is about the size of my fist, the A100 is huge in comparison and is amp only. Both are great products. I was interested in the A100 to drive speakers on a desk but changed directions and went with the JBL LSR30X (self powered) driven by the Grace. The most blaring observation is how good the HD6XX sounded out of the A100 so now I'm somewhat interested in the A100 or other synergistic amps like the Bottlecrack with Speedball. The Grace amp/dac sounded far better with the 400i largely due to the DAC and the Grave has plenty of power to drive those headphones and many current hungry headphones. The Grace is an impressive little combo unit. No popping issues with either setup. 

Those were my overall observations. Still looking for anybody that can provide a comparison between the Grace m9XX and Audio GD NFB-11.28 and R2R-11. My main interest is the power they offer over a Grace and DAC quality. I honestly don't think the DAC will be an upgrade but I'm open to impressions.


----------



## Neyeah

Hi All,

I have been trying to read up and catch up as much as I can.

I just placed an order for r2r 11 ! replacing my Carat-Ruby dac/amp if anyone even knows what it is as I cannot even find a review of this product = )
However shipment would probably be 24th Feb earliest as we are celebrating chinese new year over here in Asia

Just to share:
I use Audio Engine A5+ as my dekstop Speakers
I have DT 990 250ohm & K7xx as headphone and To go Fitear 334 as my iems.

Mostly use my headphone for gaming now in fps games and some music

Would like to ask about this burn-in for r2r 11, when it is just on without any music/sound file playing is it consider to be "burning" in ?

Also lets say after hitting the target 300-400hrs or so, Do I need to turn it off when i'm not using my PC for durability/lifetime purposes or can I just leave it on ?


----------



## Nadham

Neyeah said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have been trying to read up and catch up as much as I can.
> 
> ...


I just left my R2R 11 Switched ON and without connecting it to any source for about 2 weeks


----------



## iamjaymo

Any of you guys running the R2R 11 just as a DAC? Thinking of getting an NFB-1AMP, or other balanced amp, for balanced headphones.

Was looking at the 28.38 but hate to give up the “ladder DAC” sound I’ve grown to love from the R2R. Wish AGD had an all-in-one amp with balanced in the R2R scheme.

So, any opinions on the R2R 11 as a DAC only connected to the NFB-1?


----------



## alota

Niceeeeeee


----------



## RojasTKD (Mar 29, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> Any of you guys running the R2R 11 just as a DAC? Thinking of getting an NFB-1AMP, or other balanced amp, for balanced headphones.
> 
> Was looking at the 28.38 but hate to give up the “ladder DAC” sound I’ve grown to love from the R2R. Wish AGD had an all-in-one amp with balanced in the R2R scheme.
> 
> So, any opinions on the R2R 11 as a DAC only connected to the NFB-1?



Should work just fine. You'll just be bypassing the built in AMP for the NFB 1's AMP.

My R2R 11 arrives in a couple of days, but later this year I'd like to get either the R2R 1 (balanced DAC) or R2R 2 (single ended DAC) and either a NFB-1 (balanced AMP) or a C 2 (single ended AMP). Mainly due to curiosity. I want to see if there is a discernible difference and worthy of the price difference.


----------



## thebkt

iamjaymo said:


> Any of you guys running the R2R 11 just as a DAC? Thinking of getting an NFB-1AMP, or other balanced amp, for balanced headphones.
> 
> Was looking at the 28.38 but hate to give up the “ladder DAC” sound I’ve grown to love from the R2R. Wish AGD had an all-in-one amp with balanced in the R2R scheme.
> 
> So, any opinions on the R2R 11 as a DAC only connected to the NFB-1?


I can't speak for the R2R 11, but the NFB-1 sounds fantastic with my Mimby, which I imagine is roughly a decent comparison (two cheaper R2R DACs).  My HE-560's sound especially good with that combo.  HD6xx and Aeon sound great but (to my ears at least) benefit less from the R2R DAC than the brighter 560's.


----------



## alota

RojasTKD said:


> Should work just fine. You'll just be bypassing the built in AMP for the NFB 1's AMP.
> 
> My R2R 11 arrives in a couple of days, but later this year I'd likee to get a R2R 2 (DAC) only and either the R2R 1 (balanced DAC) or R2R 2 (single ended DAC) and either a NFB-1 (balanced AMP) or a C 2 (single ended AMP). Mainly due to curiosity. I want to see if there is a discernible difference and worthy of the price difference.


probably yes: better power section in each electronic, more power in the amplifiers and dac with fpga.
about balanced vs. single ended depends the headphone you use. but nfb-1 has 15 v(each ampliferX49and c-2 30 V


----------



## SoniMax

alota said:


> [...]nfb-1 has 15 v(each ampliferX49and c-2 30 V


Could you, please, elaborate on that.


----------



## alota

SoniMax said:


> Could you, please, elaborate on that.


If i.understand right, the voltage dc is similar in each amplifier. The difference is the output. The nfb has in s.e. 15 volt output vs. 30v output of c-2. In balanced nfb-1 has 30


SoniMax said:


> Could you, please, elaborate on that.


if i understand right, from audio-gd, c-2 has 30 v dc power supply and nfb-1 15 v dc.
so c-2, 30 v for two amplifiers and nfb-1 15 V for 4 amplifiers. in s.e. mode, the output of nfb-1 is around half compared to c-2. in balanced mode the nfb-1 has similar performance to c-2.
of course, the performance is superior compared to r2r-11 but this amplifier, for the price, is a little miracle. in every case send a mail to king-wa.


----------



## SoniMax

alota said:


> If i.understand right, the voltage dc is similar in each amplifier. The difference is the output. The nfb has in s.e. 15 volt output vs. 30v output of c-2. In balanced nfb-1 has 30
> 
> if i understand right, from audio-gd, c-2 has 30 v dc power supply and nfb-1 15 v dc.
> so c-2, 30 v for two amplifiers and nfb-1 15 V for 4 amplifiers. in s.e. mode, the output of nfb-1 is around half compared to c-2. in balanced mode the nfb-1 has similar performance to c-2.
> of course, the performance is superior compared to r2r-11 but this amplifier, for the price, is a little miracle. in every case send a mail to king-wa.


Thank you for the reply. I've been thinking of asking Audio g-d if they would be OK with me sending them the difference in money and have them ship me an NFB 1 instead of a new R2R. But as they are on vacation, they have not been answering emails. I've been looking at standalone DACs the past few days


----------



## alota

SoniMax said:


> Thank you for the reply. I've been thinking of asking Audio g-d if they would be OK with me sending them the difference in money and have them ship me an NFB 1 instead of a new R2R. But as they are on vacation, they have not been answering emails. I've been looking at standalone DACs the past few days


right, it´s chinese holyday. if you´re looking for a stand alone dac, in my opinion buy the balanced version. you can never know the future(for example an electrostatic amplifier...)


----------



## SoniMax (Feb 13, 2018)

alota said:


> right, it´s chinese holyday. if you´re looking for a stand alone dac, in my opinion buy the balanced version. you can never know the future(for example an electrostatic amplifier...)


I've kind of shortlisted a few:
http://www.box-designs.com/main.php?prod=dacboxs2plus&cat=s2-line&lang=en
and the SMSL M8A or
the IFI Idac 2

Looking for suggestions
Also curious whether yo consider the C-2


----------



## AltBridge

After browsing forums and watching/reading reviews for ages I'm still undecided if I should get the NFB 11.28 or the R2R 11. I own Sennheiser HD650 and looking for something that would pair well with them.
My main concern is about the popping on the R2R 11. Does using DirectSound with the Windows setting set to 16 bit, 44.1kHz fix the popping?


----------



## bunkbail

AltBridge said:


> After browsing forums and watching/reading reviews for ages I'm still undecided if I should get the NFB 11.28 or the R2R 11. I own Sennheiser HD650 and looking for something that would pair well with them.
> My main concern is about the popping on the R2R 11. Does using DirectSound with the Windows setting set to 16 bit, 44.1kHz fix the popping?


HD650 is a dark sounding headphone so the NFB-11 is much better suited for it, plus it has Sabre's own mute circuit thus no popping issues whatsoever.


----------



## AltBridge

bunkbail said:


> HD650 is a dark sounding headphone so the NFB-11 is much better suited for it, plus it has Sabre's own mute circuit thus no popping issues whatsoever.



Thanks a lot, I'll get the NFB 11.28 then.


----------



## Monsterzero

The popping issue is over blown quite a bit IMHO.in fact it has completely disappeared in my system Win 10>Media Monkey WASAPI>Eitr>AGD R2R-11
I run my HD650s out of a La Figaro 339,using the R2R-11 as just a DAC and I do not find it too warm at all with the jumper set to default.


----------



## Dexon

bunkbail said:


> HD650 is a dark sounding headphone so the NFB-11 is much better suited for it...



If he is about to use NFB-11's internal amp than thats not the case. Sound is quite darker out off headphone amp than from the DAC itself, yet is not muddy, slow or congested but rather thick in texture with resolving mids, but still, far from bright or even neutral. Actually, everything I read here about R2R completely mimics my impressions with NFB-11 when using its internal amp. On the other hand, if I use external, flatter amp, sound is brighter, not overly so. 

I had some minor issues with 'glare' on previous Sabre (9018) chips but always appreciated its details and light feet, so to speak. I bought NFB-11 exclusively to drive my HD800 when I'm on longer travels but after a month of use all I can say that this DAC really exceeded my expectations. Smooth, detailed, clean and fast with no obvious glare or any other shortcomings. Highly recommended.


----------



## Neyeah

Anyone else uses r2r 11 or nfb 11.28 for gaming with headphones ? I'm using AKG k7xx, curretly my r2r 11 is on process. I'm afraid i'm unable to tell the positioning and directional sound from fps games as well as one of the user here I forgot his name.


----------



## YJX94

Lushy Brushy said:


> R2R 11 or NFB-11 for AKG K712?
> 
> Just got the headphones yesterday and was running them off a FX-Audio X6 ($80) as a DAC and JDS O2 as an amp. It sounds pretty good to me but I am wondering how much more will they scale with the R2R 11 and also if the warmth of the R2R will take away some detail (some say no and that it adds even more!).
> 
> ...


I think I fixed the pink noise issue on my DAC-X6.  I replaced the blue USB cable that it comes with, with an AmazonBasics USB cable and now it no longer does the 24-bit pink noise.  Safe to say I think the issue was the USB cable that the DAC-X6 came with.  I'll probably use only AmazonBasics cables from now on and I will use the one I have with the R2R 11 when I get it.


----------



## ctaxxxx

@phthora 

Ended up getting the Furman M-8X2 and the Pangea AC-14. After hooking everything up, the first thing I noticed was my TV looked a little clearer lol. On the audio side, I do notice better separation and tighter bass (less bass impact, but I may be remembering my DAP instead). The vocals sound slightly different, not sure how though (which was also noticeable through my speakers). Maybe the increased separation makes them sound clearer. The top end either sounds smoother or less present as a result of the mids, so songs don't sound as harsh as they did before. Overall, it doesn't feel like a waste of money, especially now that I'm not using a budget surge protector for my living room set-up!


----------



## bunkbail

Neyeah said:


> Anyone else uses r2r 11 or nfb 11.28 for gaming with headphones ? I'm using AKG k7xx, curretly my r2r 11 is on process. I'm afraid i'm unable to tell the positioning and directional sound from fps games as well as one of the user here I forgot his name.


I use the R2R-11 for gaming every day and it's great. But to be honest, I get the same gaming performance (sound separation and imaging) on a cheap decent DAC/amps like the SMSL iDEA. I would assume that gaming is going to sound the same on any audio system that is not complete ass (ie motherboard internal sound chipset).


----------



## phthora

ctaxxxx said:


> @phthora
> 
> Ended up getting the Furman M-8X2 and the Pangea AC-14. After hooking everything up, the first thing I noticed was my TV looked a little clearer lol. On the audio side, I do notice better separation and tighter bass (less bass impact, but I may be remembering my DAP instead). The vocals sound slightly different, not sure how though (which was also noticeable through my speakers). Maybe the increased separation makes them sound clearer. The top end either sounds smoother or less present as a result of the mids, so songs don't sound as harsh as they did before. Overall, it doesn't feel like a waste of money, especially now that I'm not using a budget surge protector for my living room set-up!



What a deal on that Furman! Nice find. Glad it worked out for you.


----------



## RojasTKD (Feb 15, 2018)

The "poping" issue I have experienced not an issue. For me it's not really a pop, more of a small click . I was expecting it to be FAR more noticeable. On my laptop it it happens on occasion. On my desktop the first USB port I used gave my all kinds of issues causing Foobar200 to freak out (freezing, continuously skipping or fast forwarding through tracks... utterly unusable). Turns out it dosen't work with USB 3.1 ports.The two other USB ports I have tried have worked fine but give the small baby click every time I skip a track (USB 2.0 and USB 3.0)

I've only hard it a few hours, but really haven't notice much difference between the R2R 11 and my old NFB-11 (2014?), except it muting the first 2 or so seconds on first playback and every time I press play on YouTube, and it seems to deliver a little more power. I'll have to give it some more listening time and some A&B testing over the weekend.

Also with my old NFB-11 Windows volume slider did affect my audio level with with my new R2R 11 this is the case in Foobar when not set to DirectSound (WASAPI or ASIO). But other than foodbar the windows volume slider changes my R2r volume level. Did I not install something correctly. How are you suppose to install the R2R 11 exactly.

Thanks!


----------



## VilMo

RojasTKD said:


> Just got my R2R 11 and need some MAJOR help. But first the good. The "poping" issue I have experienced not not an issue. I only hear it on occasion and it not really a pop, more of a small click . I was expecting it to be FAR more noticeable.
> 
> Now the BAD. I wasn't sure what if any drivers I needed to install as I already had an older NFB-11 (2014 i think). It didn't show up when I plugged it i so installed the three driver listed at the top on this page: http://www.audio-gd.com/Products-EN.htm Even though it said the USB-32 driver failed to install the Audio-GD seems to apear in device manager as Amanero Technologies USB Driver 1.0.57.
> 
> ...


I would uninstall all three drivers and install only the  *Amanero combo 384*   this is the one that you actually need for the R2R 11.


----------



## RojasTKD

VilMo said:


> I would uninstall all three drivers and install only the *Amanero combo 384*   this is the one that you actually need for the R2R 11.



OK I will give that a go this weekend.

I switch to a USB port that isn't 3.1 (2.0 and 3.0 work fine) and my issues have gone away.


----------



## SoniMax

RojasTKD said:


> The "poping" issue I have experienced not an issue. For me it's not really a pop, more of a small click . I was expecting it to be FAR more noticeable. On my laptop it it happens on occasion. On my desktop the first USB port I used gave my all kinds of issues causing Foobar200 to freak out (freezing, continuously skipping or fast forwarding through tracks... utterly unusable). Turns out it dosen't work with USB 3.1 ports.The two other USB ports I have tried have worked fine but give the small baby click every time I skip a track (USB 2.0 and USB 3.0)
> 
> I've only hard it a few hours, but really haven't notice much difference between the R2R 11 and my old NFB-11 (2014?), except it muting the first 2 or so seconds on first playback and every time I press play on YouTube, and it seems to deliver a little more power. I'll have to give it some more listening time and some A&B testing over the weekend.
> 
> ...


At times I had my songs stop and when i open foobar I see the bar showing the progression of the song go from beginning to end in a few seconds and then when it gets to the next song it plays normally. When I click on the previous song it plays it normally again and it may perhaps do the same thing few songs after that.
Has anything similar happened to you?


----------



## Neyeah

Anyone of you guys seen this ? 

https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-s-pdif-vs-usb-which-is-better.1943/

I'm confused if I want to get a Schiit Eitr now for pairing with R2R 11 or NFB 11.28...

hmm..


----------



## SoniMax

Neyeah said:


> Anyone of you guys seen this ?
> 
> https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-s-pdif-vs-usb-which-is-better.1943/
> 
> ...


My Eitr arrives on Monday but I won't have anything to connect into it 
Not sure if to sell it without even trying it...
I'll proobably wait for my replacement amp/dac to try it with and check if it really makes a worthy difference. In other words, I may have an Eitr for sale some time in the near future.


----------



## RojasTKD

SoniMax said:


> At times I had my songs stop and when i open foobar I see the bar showing the progression of the song go from beginning to end in a few seconds and then when it gets to the next song it plays normally. When I click on the previous song it plays it normally again and it may perhaps do the same thing few songs after that.
> Has anything similar happened to you?



I was having a lot of issue with it stopping audio playback and kinda locking up or freaking out and seemingly skipping or fast forwarding/skipping continuously. Switching my USB port seems to have solved the issue for me. It dosen't seem to work well with USB 3.1 ports, using USB 2.0 or 3.0 has so far worked fine. I haven't had it long so need more time to be sure the issue is truly fixed.


----------



## Neyeah (Feb 15, 2018)

SoniMax said:


> My Eitr arrives on Monday but I won't have anything to connect into it
> Not sure if to sell it without even trying it...
> I'll proobably wait for my replacement amp/dac to try it with and check if it really makes a worthy difference. In other words, I may have an Eitr for sale some time in the near future.


Fml lol i think i'm still jumping in the wagon and try the Eitr, probably will try with and without and use it anyway LOL...

+ will probably follow to change the power cord for audio-gd dac/amp. still undecided on r2r11 / nfb 11.28 but I think most likely nfb 11.28 due to still noob at this + listen to alot of edm n top 100 kind of music. Also still with AE A5+ now.

Also to All,

What cable is needed between Schiit Eitr - > R2R/NFB ?? Any recommendation ? thanks !

https://www.amazon.com/EMK-Digital-...id=1518721903&sr=8-1&keywords=emk+coaxial+rca

https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-ULTRA-Digital-Audio-Coaxial/dp/B00FMZX48I/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1518721834&sr=1-2-fkmr1&keywords=KabelDirect+coaxial+rca&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/FosPower-Dig...rd_wg=dHDrM&psc=1&refRID=CJE80JZ0272GAC27EQWB

Does either of this work ? because i'm refusing to buy locally in Indonesia which I feel so overpriced
like this: https://www.tokopedia.com/warunglis...ge=1_ob=3_q=coaxial+rca+cable_po=36_catid=634 thats equivalent to about US$23+/-


----------



## tauceti (Feb 15, 2018)

I would use a digital coaxial cable from audioquest:
http://www.audioquest.com/seventy-five-ohm/forest


----------



## thebkt

Blue Jeans coax is working great here, assuming international shipping isn't too much.  Alternatively, monoprice would be fine.


----------



## ctaxxxx

Wow, after some more extended listening on the R2R 11 with the Pangea power cord, I've noticed that everything sounded a little flat. Dynamics and the finer details definitely seemed to lack impact, as I mentioned in my last comment about the bass. Switched back to the stock just now, and it sounds a little more lively again. Voices aren't as smooth for TV shows, but now it doesn't feel like there is a tiny veil. I may have jumped the gun with the impressions. Thinking of returning the Pangea cable already, as I prefer the stock cable now. 

That experiment didn't last long, but it was an interesting test run. Still like the power conditioner though, so that'll stay.


----------



## RojasTKD

Need a little help.

I've noticed that when I set Foobar to output to anything other than "DirectSound: Primary Sound Driver" Anything other than Foobar can't be heard or with dome other driver options freeks out and Fobar start to fast forward though sond an nothing can be heard. WIth my NFB-11 I could listen to Foobar and hear other audio (YouTube or Spotify for example).

I think it because Window in general is using DirectSound and Foobar only the driver specified. But my NFB-11 didn' behave this way and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on the benefits of AISO? Or if there is some install step that need to be done. 

On a side not in the little listening of done over the short time I've owned the R2R 11, I'm hard pressed to notice any difference when compared to my older NFB-11 (2104) aside from a little more power (there might be a little more bass inpace, but not sure yet). 

In one way this id good because I always found my NFB-11 to be stellar, on other other hand I expected to notice some difference moving the the ladder DAC. It too early to make any real conclusions and sometimes it take some listening the hear those subtle differences. I was just expecting it to be an obvious difference.


----------



## Nadham

RojasTKD said:


> Need a little help.
> 
> I've noticed that when I set Foobar to output to anything other than "DirectSound: Primary Sound Driver" Anything other than Foobar can't be heard or with dome other driver options freeks out and Fobar start to fast forward though sond an nothing can be heard. WIth my NFB-11 I could listen to Foobar and hear other audio (YouTube or Spotify for example).
> 
> ...


This happens to me when I am listening a track in Foobar (AISO) and then I open a website that loads a AV (like a news clip) automatically. To fix this, I stop the track in Foobar and play it again.

Below are my settings:


----------



## phthora

ctaxxxx said:


> Wow, after some more extended listening on the R2R 11 with the Pangea power cord, I've noticed that everything sounded a little flat. Dynamics and the finer details definitely seemed to lack impact, as I mentioned in my last comment about the bass. Switched back to the stock just now, and it sounds a little more lively again. Voices aren't as smooth for TV shows, but now it doesn't feel like there is a tiny veil. I may have jumped the gun with the impressions. Thinking of returning the Pangea cable already, as I prefer the stock cable now.
> 
> That experiment didn't last long, but it was an interesting test run. Still like the power conditioner though, so that'll stay.



Interesting results. I ordered the AC 14SE for my NFB-28.38, so we'll see if I have the same experience.


----------



## xLoud

Did anyone compare R2R 11/NFB 11.28 to Topping DX7/DX7s?


----------



## bunkbail (Feb 17, 2018)

Neyeah said:


> Anyone of you guys seen this ?
> 
> https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/battle-of-s-pdif-vs-usb-which-is-better.1943/
> 
> ...


The poster is comparing measurement of the DACs using unfiltered/bare connection from his PC via USB and SPDIF, so I don't know what is the connection between Eitr and the post? The main purpose of the Eitr is to clean the connection to the SPDIF coax input, as other USB decrappifier such as Jitterbug, iFi USB product line (iUSB3.0, iPurifier, iDefender, iGalvanic, iSilencer etc.), ISO REGEN, Wyrd etc. do the same to the USB connection at different price tag and performance level.


----------



## Neyeah

bunkbail said:


> The poster is comparing measurement of the DACs using unfiltered/bare connection from his PC via USB and SPDIF, so I don't know what is the connection between Eitr and the post? The main purpose of the Eitr is to clean the connection to the SPDIF coax input, as other USB decrappifier such as Jitterbug, iFi USB product line (iUSB3.0, iPurifier, iDefender, iGalvanic, iSilencer etc.), ISO REGEN, Wyrd etc. do the same to the USB connection at different price tag and performance level.


ahh ok ! Thank You ! make sense now !


----------



## Neyeah

phthora said:


> Interesting results. I ordered the AC 14SE for my NFB-28.38, so we'll see if I have the same experience.



i saw the SE version as well, decided to go for the normal. also SE runs lower current.

from audio advisor
Pangea Audio's AC-14SE MkII Signature Edition power cable is specifically designed for source components, which do not require the same large amounts of current as receivers, amps and subs. The AC-14SE provides more than enough current while offering multiple shielding and other features that facilitate extremely clean and noise-free power.

so not sure should be ac-14 or se better ?


----------



## phthora

Neyeah said:


> i saw the SE version as well, decided to go for the normal. also SE runs lower current.
> 
> from audio advisor
> Pangea Audio's AC-14SE MkII Signature Edition power cable is specifically designed for source components, which do not require the same large amounts of current as receivers, amps and subs. The AC-14SE provides more than enough current while offering multiple shielding and other features that facilitate extremely clean and noise-free power.
> ...



From what I can tell, the 14 or 14SE would be fine for headphone amps and DACs. In fact, Audio Advisor mentioned in a response to a question on Amazon, that either should be good up to 200 watts. Past that, they recommend the AC-9. But that seems more aimed at speaker amps and such. I think the main difference between the Premier and SE versions is that the latter has better materials and more shielding. If you didn't like the changes from the Premier version, I doubt the SE would sound better. It would probably just do more of the same.


----------



## Neyeah

phthora said:


> From what I can tell, the 14 or 14SE would be fine for headphone amps and DACs. In fact, Audio Advisor mentioned in a response to a question on Amazon, that either should be good up to 200 watts. Past that, they recommend the AC-9. But that seems more aimed at speaker amps and such. I think the main difference between the Premier and SE versions is that the latter has better materials and more shielding. If you didn't like the changes from the Premier version, I doubt the SE would sound better. It would probably just do more of the same.


would AC14 be good for the monitor itself like adam f7 ?


----------



## phthora

Neyeah said:


> would AC14 be good for the monitor itself like adam f7 ?



Should be. Those seem to be under the 200W line, so it should be a good pairing. Plus, most of the time audio equipment is packed in with relatively cheap power cords. If they can handle the power requirements, then the Pangea will as well.


----------



## Neyeah

phthora said:


> Should be. Those seem to be under the 200W line, so it should be a good pairing. Plus, most of the time audio equipment is packed in with relatively cheap power cords. If they can handle the power requirements, then the Pangea will as well.


Just to share,

Got some information from audio advisor. They mentioned though ac14/14se should be an improvement over stock power cable for monitors however they says that ac9/ac9se is more suitable for powered monitors.


----------



## MelonHead (Feb 19, 2018)

Hello everybody!
Thanks to this thread, I joined to the AGD club with a fresh R2R-11 from Magna Hifi. The owners were very helpful, the order and logistic was fluent so I can suggest them to every EU citizen.
This little gem is spectacular in almost every circumstamces. I can rediscover my whole music collection again as it is a hughe leap over my former system. 

Regarding the "popping" issue: yes it is there, but as somebody mentioned earlier here, its not a harsh pop but a small click. I haven't found any rule, or regularity in the pop. Sometimes I can hear them between songs from the same album and sample rate, sometimes it dissapears for a few hours completly. I don't feel this annoying, but I understand if this is a deal+breaker for someone, who is more sensitive. I have many DSD and DFF files, so I have to use the USB connection for a bitperfect result.

I would like to upgrade from my DT990 Pro in the near future. I'm very satisfied with my current cans, but this DAC/AMP can surely serve better headphones as well. To cut it short, I appreciate any feedback from Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro, or Amiron Home owners regarding this combo.


----------



## isoa4k

Thats good to hear! My R2R arrives on thursday directly purchased in Beijing for the nice amount of 280e. Im waiting anxiously because ive just adquired four days ago a pair of Audeze LCD2 2017 Fazor and  only listened them through my Meizu Pro 5 Dac/Amp (and i love the sound) so i expect a really huge quality bump driven with the R2R11R. Have a look @ Audeze's line. I think they are top notch headphones and the bass reproduction is quite epic.


----------



## Neyeah

Anyone here owns Adam F5/F7 ?

I've seen pictures online and it looks like the power connector at the back of the speakers only has 2 pin ? can anyone confirm this ?

Can the pangea cable that has been linked here still be used to connect ?


----------



## MelonHead (Feb 20, 2018)

isoa4k said:


> Thats good to hear! My R2R arrives on thursday directly purchased in Beijing for the nice amount of 280e. Im waiting anxiously because ive just adquired four days ago a pair of Audeze LCD2 2017 Fazor and  only listened them through my Meizu Pro 5 Dac/Amp (and i love the sound) so i expect a really huge quality bump driven with the R2R11R. Have a look @ Audeze's line. I think they are top notch headphones and the bass reproduction is quite epic.


Thanks for the reply isoa4k!
I can understand if you are satisfied with the Audeze LCD2, but these cans costs almost two times as much here as the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro, or the Amiron Home. Right now -as our house is under a massive renovation-  I can't afford anything over Eur 600. On the other hand, I find leather earpads and heavy headphones not so comfortable for longer listening sessions plus reading the reviews on amazon.com, the quality control of these headphones seems to be subpar compared to the retail price.


----------



## isoa4k

I understand. I think the quality issues have been reduced drastically with the latest revisions. Moreover you get three year driver warranty (renovable if they somewhat need to be exchanged). LCD2 Classic have revamped headband with improved comfort and no leather earpads. They can be purchased for around 680e. I just went with the LCD2 because i've always loved this model but i couldnt afford them, but a relative brought them to me brand new from USA for 820e. Its a good deal. Im sure the Beyers 1990pro are wonderful. I just needed to feel the Planar Magnetic bass heaven and yeah, planars deliver. I already haveha German Maestro 8.35 Dynamic so i wantedwto go a step further from classic dyn drivers. Have a look at this brand because they have some serious audio quality gear and can be bought witj Amazon Premium as it is a Germany based company. Good luck!


----------



## MelonHead

Nadham said:


> This happens to me when I am listening a track in Foobar (AISO) and then I open a website that loads a AV (like a news clip) automatically. To fix this, I stop the track in Foobar and play it again.
> 
> Below are my settings:


As far as I know, ASIO and Wasapi take exclusive control over Windows resources. If you would like to listen to music and watch your favourite Youtube channel simulteanously you need Direcsound, but you will sacrifice the better music quality. As an acceptable workaround, I use Firefox to start the video stream and use captions where they are available.


----------



## ShredOhr (Feb 21, 2018)

Depends on the DAC Asio driver i would say. I have a dac that no matter what solution you use (wasapi, KS, supplied asio driver) doesnt let you listen to other stuff simultaneously. Then there is another Dac where you can listen to music though the supplied asio driver (foobar2000 @ asio) in the background and still have an windows audio stream going on for stuff like watching a movie, youtube or playing games....
When i only use foobar @ asio, in the windows task manager i do not have that specific process for audio conversion running (audio graph.....or how its called).....so i am totally sure windows doesnt mess with my audio.
But as soon as i start watching a movie/youtube or playing a game, windows comes up with that process in the task manager and then i need to ask myself if my asio music isnt affected by when playing from foobar alongside.

I noticed, the dacs that run in synchronous usb mode with the PC do not let u hear other sound when doing asio. Both my other dacs that run in asynchronous usb mode let me listen to other sound alongside asio music from foobar.....not sure if its the real deal, though


----------



## noise11

is this dac still doing pops in between tracks or they fixed it in newer revisions? funny some users try to fix it themselves buying more gear, i would just return it and get my money back.


----------



## dwaleke

noise11 said:


> is this dac still doing pops in between tracks or they fixed it in newer revisions? funny some users try to fix it themselves buying more gear, i would just return it and get my money back.


It pops by design.   There is no mute circuit in this dac.  

When sample rate changes most dacs mute to hide the noises.  This one cannot.


----------



## RojasTKD

noise11 said:


> is this dac still doing pops in between tracks or they fixed it in newer revisions? funny some users try to fix it themselves buying more gear, i would just return it and get my money back.





dwaleke said:


> It pops by design.   There is no mute circuit in this dac.
> 
> When sample rate changes most dacs mute to hide the noises.  This one cannot.



Like dwaleke states, this is how it's designed. I have no issues with the "pop", all I hear is a small "click" and it is FAR less than I was expecting. I much prefer this "click" than the muting some of my other DAC/AMPs do (iDSD Black Lable and older 2014 NFB-11).

Return my R2R 11, NEVER!


----------



## FredA

RojasTKD said:


> Like dwaleke states, this is how it's designed. I have no issues with the "pop", all I hear is a small "click" and it is FAR less than I was expecting. I much prefer this "click" than the muting some of my other DAC/AMPs do (iDSD Black Lable and older 2014 NFB-11).
> 
> Return my R2R 11, NEVER!



The sound it produces is well above the price point. I can't find any flaw with the way it sounds matched with a proper headphone set. It's a giant killer or close.


----------



## iamjaymo (Feb 21, 2018)

Omg...this popping issue is so over blown. I didn’t even know what you people were talking about it is so minuscule. If it bothers some of you that much then yes, please return it.  I will continue to enjoy mine.


----------



## iamjaymo (Feb 21, 2018)

Maybe you could think of it like putting the needle down on some good vinyl (it does have an analog sound after all). Hell, it’s not even nearly as loud as a need drop!


----------



## CoFire

JaMo said:


> I have to agree with JoeDoe, the R2R-11 has a better soundimage and it is a bit more lively. The both are identical regarding the functionality. The R2R-11 produces small pops when changing music with different sampling rates. The 11.28 is more sublime.
> 
> It is very hard to choose....Both are high perfomers. The size is like an older carradio. But personally I think the R2R-11 will be my favorite, as I wrote before.
> /Jan.



R2R-11 has a better soundstage and is a bit more lively but the 11.28 is more sublime and the R2R-11 is your favorite? Can you elaborate? The more sublime comment followed by your favorite selection throws me off.


----------



## phthora (Feb 21, 2018)

phthora said:


> Interesting results. I ordered the AC 14SE for my NFB-28.38, so we'll see if I have the same experience.



After about 6 hours of listening with the AC 14SE power cord on my NFB-28.38 and running HiFiMan HE560's though XLR, here is what I have noticed versus stock:

I prefer to listen to most things at a volume of 67 on L gain, instead of 69 with the stock power cord.
Soundstage seems a touch wider and the sound overall is very slightly crisper, cleaner, clearer. It hard to tell if this is more detail or faster decay.

Impact does not seem diminished, and there doesn't seem to be any change to FR.
Sonic differences are extremely small. 
I plan on testing the set-up again at work, where I know the power is very dirty and causes audible buzzing in my Violectric amp.


----------



## Nadham

noise11 said:


> is this dac still doing pops in between tracks or they fixed it in newer revisions? funny some users try to fix it themselves buying more gear, i would just return it and get my money back.


Returning R2R 11 over a tiny click sound? not possible.


----------



## noise11

Nadham said:


> Returning R2R 11 over a tiny click sound? not possible.


is there any measurements to justify all the rave around this dac? all i can find are listening impressions at most


----------



## MelonHead (Feb 22, 2018)

Just my 2 cents, but I don't care about the graphs and numbers until they are extremely extraordinary.  Real life listening experience and impressions should mean much more than technical analytics, as most of us use this dac/amp for listening to music.
I'm wondering, if there is any tool, which can measure the fluent, pure and natural music reproduction of this DAC?


----------



## thebkt

RojasTKD said:


> I much prefer this "click" than the muting some of my other DAC/AMPs do (iDSD Black Lable and older 2014 NFB-11).
> 
> Return my R2R 11, NEVER!


What was the issue with the muting on your iDSD BL?  I'm curious as I have a BL that has a few quirks (eg. takes a moment for audio to start after hitting play), but I'm not sure what you mean by something to do with muting.


----------



## noise11

MelonHead said:


> Just my 2 cents, but I don't care about the graphs and numbers until they are extremely extraordinary.  Real life listening experience and impressions should mean much more than technical analytics, as most of us use this dac/amp for listening to music.
> I'm wondering, if there is any tool, which can measure the fluent, pure and natural music reproduction of this DAC?


lol in fact using those "tools" is how manufacturer build audio gear, they don't just solder things in a board and wish everything goes well.


----------



## isoa4k (Feb 22, 2018)

Well, my R2R 11 is here : ) Testing it right now with my LCD2, everything not burned in XD . Will post my impressions later but for now... I cant play DSD256 and DSD512, foobar pops with an error "could not start ASIO" or if i change to Wasapi it says "unsupported sample rate". Other DSD formats play fine so something is wrong here. If someone can point me to a proper configuration in foobar i would be glad! Thanks!

PS. Which driver is supposed to have the best SQ? Plain ASIO? DSD ASIO? WASAPI? Smells like newbie here xD


----------



## FredA

noise11 said:


> lol in fact using those "tools" is how manufacturer build audio gear, they don't just solder things in a board and wish everything goes well.


That is right but some things can't be measured properly, like frequency response. If you take jitter into account, you get a picture that is very different from the measurements. Thus dacs with perfectly flat response can have significantly different tonal balance. The problem with measurement is exactly that: they have limitations that make them unreliable to judge of sound quality. But as you said, they are useful to do quality control. To a certain extent. You have to use a human being, as audio-gd does, to make a pass-fail call.


----------



## RojasTKD

thebkt said:


> What was the issue with the muting on your iDSD BL?  I'm curious as I have a BL that has a few quirks (eg. takes a moment for audio to start after hitting play), but I'm not sure what you mean by something to do with muting.



That's what I'm referring to. It can be a little annoying.


----------



## RojasTKD

MelonHead said:


> As far as I know, ASIO and Wasapi take exclusive control over Windows resources. If you would like to listen to music and watch your favourite Youtube channel simulteanously you need Direcsound, but you will sacrifice the better music quality. As an acceptable workaround, I use Firefox to start the video stream and use captions where they are available.



This wasn't the case with my older NFB-11 (2014 I believe). I could use it with Foobar2000 and still use an hear all system sounds. this change annoys me with the R2R 11 a bit.

Also I've seemed to have lost the ability to use Equalizer APO since moving to the R2R 11. I was expecting it to behave the same way my old FNB-11 did, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I still think I prefer it to the muting the NFB-11 did, but it seems to be choose you poison kind of situation 

I'm hoping someone will say, "oh, you set ip up wrong. Do XYZ and everything will work the way you want and it will be sunshine, roses and audio bliss from now on". Fingers crossed.


----------



## thebkt

RojasTKD said:


> That's what I'm referring to. It can be a little annoying.


Gotcha!  I agree, though I believe there's a firmware update that fixes it?  I just haven't bothered getting it


----------



## RojasTKD

thebkt said:


> Gotcha!  I agree, though I believe there's a firmware update that fixes it?  I just haven't bothered getting it



Firmware update? Must be referring to the iDSD BL. I tried to update when I got it but wasn't sure how, But I thought it was on the latest firmware. Apparently not as it still cuts of the beginning of my music. I'll have to look into it sometime and make sure I get it updated.


----------



## muckyfingers

RojasTKD said:


> This wasn't the case with my older NFB-11 (2014 I believe). I could use it with Foobar2000 and still use an hear all system sounds. this change annoys me with the R2R 11 a bit.
> 
> Also I've seemed to have lost the ability to use Equalizer APO since moving to the R2R 11. I was expecting it to behave the same way my old FNB-11 did, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I still think I prefer it to the muting the NFB-11 did, but it seems to be choose you poison kind of situation
> 
> I'm hoping someone will say, "oh, you set ip up wrong. Do XYZ and everything will work the way you want and it will be sunshine, roses and audio bliss from now on". Fingers crossed.



If you are using Foobar2000 is ASIO or WASAPI mode and playing a song or even have a song on "pause", then not being able to hear anything else is the correct behavior. That is the whole point of ASIO and WASAPI mode. You have to press "stop" in Foobar2000 or close out Foobar2000 completely in order to hear anything other than Foobar2000 while using ASIO or WASAPI modes.


----------



## Kermeli

I bought a LCD2C, would R2R 11 fit well for it?


----------



## RojasTKD

69mustang said:


> If you are using Foobar2000 is ASIO or WASAPI mode and playing a song or even have a song on "pause", then not being able to hear anything else is the correct behavior. That is the whole point of ASIO and WASAPI mode. You have to press "stop" in Foobar2000 or close out Foobar2000 completely in order to hear anything other than Foobar2000 while using ASIO or WASAPI modes.



Hummm, perhaps I was using the wrong driver in Foobar2000. When I build my expanded desk (listening, testing area) I'll eventually set it on on one of my laptops and check the setup.

Yep, just tried it. I must of been using the DirectSound driver in Foobar2000.


----------



## VilMo

Some time ago I discovered by chance that that the Amanero USB board does not requre and can work perfectly fine without power from the USB input (PC/Laptop/Streamer).
From other forums (I have also experimented a lot) I know people go to great lengths to separate data from power - and use batteries and audiophille power supplies in order to avoid the dirty power coming from the PC. 
The Amanero however does not need such efforts. I did a very simple mod to my USB cable - I put black tape (Duck tape?) on the 5V power pin of the USB A connector going in my laptop.
This is the rightmost pin if you hold the pins showing up as you look at them. 
You can easily google images of _usb pinout_ to confirm.
The theory behind this as I understand it is that this can reduce interferance between USB data lines and USB power lines in the USB cable. 
If anyone cares to try this simple mod, please share your findings. I believe this brings quality up a notch but am interested to know if others find the same.

By the way, yeaterday after a few weeks of listening the R2R 11 alone I listed to it side by side with Mojo (2 linked zones in Jriver playing the same songs, so very easy to compare).
I can say again that R2R 11 is in no way inferior and with regards to microdetails and timbre is even better to my ears. Plus it is so much better suited for desktop use shared between headphones and speakers!


----------



## VilMo

By the way this is the same logic behind this Vbus 2 Isolator: https://www.sbooster.com/sbooster-tweaks/sbooster-vbus-isolator 
However the tape I think can achieve the same result - quickly and for free ... You can go with the Vbus isolator only if you are afraid of tape residie on the pins. but this can also be removed easily ...


----------



## Nadham

noise11 said:


> is there any measurements to justify all the rave around this dac? all i can find are listening impressions at most


I have no idea about measurements but I like what I hear. That is enough, atleast for me, to keep it.


----------



## FredA (Feb 24, 2018)

The way the r2r 11 plays classic and jazz shows that it is a high-class combo that can be put against pretty much anything at any price without any shame. I am still amazed with it after a month or so. I think it's fantastic.


----------



## Zenvota

Could I get a recommendation between r2r11 and nfb11?  I use Hifiman HE-400i, this program https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/ for movies, and fast complex music.  I know nfb11 is a good choice for my needs, however, the he400i is very analytical, would the r2r11 add some life/realism without sacrificing detail and speed?  Also, between the "out of your head" program and equalizing I find I need alot of power, will I hear the noise floor on r2r11 if the volume is high? Thanks!


----------



## autur

About to place an order for the R2R11. Is there consensus that it pairs slightly better with the HD 6xx (650) than the NFB version? Most people are choosing the R2R from what I can tell, but I haven't seen much informed comparison/opinion on the pairing aspect. That said, any opinions informed or not so well informed are welcome. I'd especially like to know if soundstage is any different between R2R and NFB. Thx


----------



## RojasTKD

Zenvota said:


> Could I get a recommendation between r2r11 and nfb11?  I use Hifiman HE-400i, this program https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/ for movies, and fast complex music.  I know nfb11 is a good choice for my needs, however, the he400i is very analytical, would the r2r11 add some life/realism without sacrificing detail and speed?  Also, between the "out of your head" program and equalizing I find I need alot of power, will I hear the noise floor on r2r11 if the volume is high? Thanks!





autur said:


> About to place an order for the R2R11. Is there consensus that it pairs slightly better with the HD 6xx (650) than the NFB version? Most people are choosing the R2R from what I can tell, but I haven't seen much informed comparison/opinion on the pairing aspect. That said, any opinions informed or not so well informed are welcome. I'd especially like to know if soundstage is any different between R2R and NFB. Thx



I can't speak for the latest version of the NFB-11.28, but I have an older NFB-11 (2014/2015) and a new R2R 11. Honestly so far Ive been hard pressed to tell much of a difference. If I listen really carefully (and repeatedly) with my HE-500s I noticed difference in things like cymbal hits and claps. It seemed sharper and more realistic, aside from that it was had to distinguish one from the other.

There may be a greater difference with the new NFB-11.28 and over time I may be able to develop better hearing for some differences. But honestly I wouldn't worry too much. Either one will deliver great sound and likely make you happy. 

The one thing that bothers me is that Equalizer APO (system wide EQ app) dosen't seem to work. I'll have to look into it and see if there is a fix. It worked fine with my older NFB-11. I'm not sure if this will affect you "Fongaudio" application.


----------



## iamjaymo (Feb 27, 2018)

RojasTKD said:


> I can't speak for the latest version of the NFB-11.28, but I have an older NFB-11 (2014/2015) and a new R2R 11. Honestly so far Ive been hard pressed to tell much of a difference. If I listen really carefully (and repeatedly) with my HE-500s I noticed difference in things like cymbal hits and claps. It seemed sharper and more realistic, aside from that it was had to distinguish one from the other.
> 
> There may be a greater difference with the new NFB-11.28 and over time I may be able to develop better hearing for some differences. But honestly I wouldn't worry too much. Either one will deliver great sound and likely make you happy.
> 
> The one thing that bothers me is that Equalizer APO (system wide EQ app) dosen't seem to work. I'll have to look into it and see if there is a fix. It worked fine with my older NFB-11. I'm not sure if this will affect you "Fongaudio" application.



This is a really great post. Totally agree, the differences between these units are probably so slight it would be difficult to discern unless A/B ing and even then still really hard.

I tried a brief comparo between an old NFB 12 and the R2R and it was difficult to put into words the difference. There was a difference but if I were to be honest, probably couldn’t tell the two reliably with any large time lapse in between listening. Guess what...the R2R sounds great, plays music and is a bargain compared to what’s on the market. Probably can’t go wrong with either choice.


----------



## iamjaymo (Feb 27, 2018)

Let me reiterate something...the R2R 11 sounds really, really great. Listening to Beck’s Morning Phase as I write this and the bass in the song, “Blackbird Chain” sounds positively AMAZING!


----------



## autur

I chickened out at the last second on the R2R-11 and went instead for the NFB-11.28. Decided I wanted the more neutral of the two, and I've had positive experiences with ESS Sabre DACs, so it's a safe bet.

I guess a more positive way to look at it is I didn't buy into the hype that's been created around the R2R-11, no that there's anything negative.


----------



## RojasTKD (Mar 2, 2018)

autur said:


> I chickened out at the last second on the R2R-11 and went instead for the NFB-11.28. Decided I wanted the more neutral of the two, and I've had positive experiences with ESS Sabre DACs, so it's a safe bet.
> 
> I guess a more positive way to look at it is I didn't buy into the hype that's been created around the R2R-11, no that there's anything negative.



I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice.


----------



## Gambitek

autur said:


> I chickened out at the last second on the R2R-11 and went instead for the NFB-11.28. Decided I wanted the more neutral of the two, and I've had positive experiences with ESS Sabre DACs, so it's a safe bet.
> 
> I guess a more positive way to look at it is I didn't buy into the hype that's been created around the R2R-11, no that there's anything negative.



I agree. I tried the Klipsch Heritage amp/dac which had a warm signature. My friend who loves tubes really liked it...I didn't. Felt like these was honey or wax paper over everything...I felt a smidge of clarity was lacking. I'm tempted to lean towards an NFB 11.28. What I do wonder is how it compares to a Magni3/Mimby....I kind of adore that combo.


----------



## isoa4k

Well its time for some little review.

I've been listening to my brand new Audeze LCD2F (latest rev) with my new R2R11. My previous gear was a pair of German Maestro 8.35D amped with nothing more than a Meizu Pro5 so my experience is somewhat limited.

After two weeks listening to my LCD2s with the Meizu i can say there's really a huge improvement with the R2R. Soundstage is more wide. Bass impact is greatly improved and i must say i find the R2R a little bit darker than the Pro5 but this is nothing to regret about. Tonal balance seems very good to me and the extra (little) warmth given by the amp makes the cans sound perfect with no fatigue at all. I can feel every detail. 
My two equipments are still in burn in so i cant judge properly at 100%. About the popping issue i find it not a problem. It just pops a bit in stop/start/rate change. Nothing to be worried. I do have  a problem with DSD256 and DSD512. Fooobar drops an error being unable to play this formats unless i tick the DSD processor to downsample to DSD128. Help in proper configuration or best driver selection with R2R 11 would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## gLer

isoa4k said:


> Well its time for some little review.
> 
> I've been listening to my brand new Audeze LCD2F (latest rev) with my new R2R11. My previous gear was a pair of German Maestro 8.35D amped with nothing more than a Meizu Pro5 so my experience is somewhat limited.
> 
> ...


Hi, nice review and feedback. Have you encountered any of the DSD playback issues with your R2R? For example, mine sometimes ‘shrieks’ as well as pops before it starts to play a DSD. There’s also some low level noise artefacts when playing back some DSDs (especially quieter sections). An easy one to hear it on is the DSD version of Amber Rubarth’s “Sessions from the 17th Ward” (DSD128). Play the song “Hold On” and turn the volume up and tell me what you hear...

Currently trying to resolve the issue with Audio-GD. Suspect it’s an Amanero issue and hopeful it will only need a firmware fix, otherwise there’s going to be a bunch of R2R-11s going back RMA...


----------



## MarkArtz

gLer said:


> Currently trying to resolve the issue with Audio-GD. Suspect it’s an Amanero issue and hopeful it will only need a firmware fix, otherwise there’s going to be a bunch of R2R-11s going back RMA...


Yeah, that's definitely not good plus the popping never went away regardless. Mine went back and exchanged it for NFB 11.28, but its not what I initially wanted so I finally sold it since I found it to be too boring. I wonder if the R2R 2 DAC has the same issues.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

My first reply in this place. 
Wanted to try an R2R dac, and having an Arcam IrDac (no headphone jack) i thought this combo would fit the bill. 


Paid the R2R 11 last sunday, shipped from DHL Hong Kong saturday 3/3 and arrived in Stockholm yesterday 5/3. Must say that's quiet fast. 
Have to wait until thursday to pick it up though. 
Really excited to hear it with my ~20 years old 7506s.


----------



## FredA

monkeyfist_78 said:


> My first reply in this place.
> Wanted to try an R2R dac, and having an Arcam IrDac (no headphone jack) i thought this combo would fit the bill.
> 
> 
> ...


It's a good match. You should like it.


----------



## spacequeen7

Found alternative to Schiit Eitr and was wondering if anyone is using one with R2R 11

*QA730U XMOS*
*http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/qa730u.htm*


----------



## bunkbail

spacequeen7 said:


> Found alternative to Schiit Eitr and was wondering if anyone is using one with R2R 11
> 
> *QA730U XMOS
> http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/qa730u.htm*


How good is it? Have you tried it?


----------



## spacequeen7 (Mar 7, 2018)

Nope ,found this review tho


EDIT; I'm holing off on them converters for now ,I had good results with TosLink optical connection in the past and will try same route once I get R2R 11
TosLink is/was limited by some hardware  mnf. to 96 kHz in order to ensure smooth transfer but it's capable of 192 KHz  I have and set 196KHz option in W7x64 via TosLink -not susceptible to radio interference (Bluetooth )


----------



## FredA

I got a pair of akg k553pro to do complement my r2r 11 for office use. So far so good. To whomever it was, thanks for recommending me these. They are perfect for the office. Comfy, excellent sound at that price point. Great isolation. An upgrade overall from my beloved mdr-7506. And they pair well with the r2r 11. Talk about a great setup under 500$.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

I'm still confused about this "popping" issue.

Does it only happen when switching to a track that is a different file type or resolution (e.g.: switching from 16/44 to 24/96)?
Or does it happen in between tracks that are the same size, and even on the same album?
I plan on primarily listening via my MacBook, streaming TIDAL.  Am I going to hear "pops" between every track on an album?


----------



## Monsterzero

TheEldestBoy said:


> I'm still confused about this "popping" issue.






TheEldestBoy said:


> Does it only happen when switching to a track that is a different file type or resolution (e.g.: switching from 16/44 to 24/96)?


 Yes



TheEldestBoy said:


> Or does it happen in between tracks that are the same size, and even on the same album?


No



TheEldestBoy said:


> I plan on primarily listening via my MacBook, streaming TIDAL.  Am I going to hear "pops" between every track on an album?


No,in fact mine no longer pops at all.


----------



## TheEldestBoy

Monsterzero said:


> Yes
> No
> No,in fact mine no longer pops at all.




Thanks!


----------



## thebkt

spacequeen7 said:


> Nope ,found this review tho
> 
> 
> EDIT; I'm holing off on them converters for now ,I had good results with TosLink optical connection in the past and will try same route once I get R2R 11
> TosLink is/was limited by some hardware  mnf. to 96 kHz in order to ensure smooth transfer but it's capable of 192 KHz  I have and set 196KHz option in W7x64 via TosLink -not susceptible to radio interference (Bluetooth )



I'm 100% satisfied with the improvement I've noticed from the Schiit Eitr.  I wasn't sure how it would improve on the setup I had, but it absolutely did.  If anything it simply clears things up a little bit, revealing that little bit more detail.  Felt like a great upgrade for the price.


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, does anyone here have the R2R-11 along with the NFB 28.38? Would love to hear how they compare to each other, dac to dac, amp to amp.


----------



## isoa4k

gLer said:


> Hi, nice review and feedback. Have you encountered any of the DSD playback issues with your R2R? For example, mine sometimes ‘shrieks’ as well as pops before it starts to play a DSD. There’s also some low level noise artefacts when playing back some DSDs (especially quieter sections). An easy one to hear it on is the DSD version of Amber Rubarth’s “Sessions from the 17th Ward” (DSD128). Play the song “Hold On” and turn the volume up and tell me what you hear...
> 
> Currently trying to resolve the issue with Audio-GD. Suspect it’s an Amanero issue and hopeful it will only need a firmware fix, otherwise there’s going to be a bunch of R2R-11s going back RMA...



Well i think i experience the same issues with DSD. I can hear  low level noise artifacts, like digital jitter on low level parts of some DSD songs. As i said i cannot play DSD256 and DSD512 because foobar throws me an error. If anyone could be so kind to lead me to a proper configuration. Is DSD256 and 512 supported in the R2R 11?


----------



## gLer

isoa4k said:


> Well i think i experience the same issues with DSD. I can hear  low level noise artifacts, like digital jitter on low level parts of some DSD songs. As i said i cannot play DSD256 and DSD512 because foobar throws me an error. If anyone could be so kind to lead me to a proper configuration. Is DSD256 and 512 supported in the R2R 11?


I think we need to make more of a noise about this (excuse the pun). The R2R-11 is getting a free pass around here as a superb dac worth far more than its asking price - and I believe rightly so - but it has a critical flaw if, like us, you enjoy your DSDs. The frustrating part for me is that PCM playback is perfect, so clearly there's a disconnect somewhere with the so-called "native" DSD support. Also, as far as I know, it only supports DSD256 (and then only on Windows). I can play up to DSD128 on my Mac via DoP.


----------



## isoa4k

Well in my case i experience this now. DSD up to 128 plays fine with DSD Asio driver on foobar2000. Up to 256 and 512 throws an error about unsupported rate. But if i change in the SACD plugin the output from DSD to PCM then i experience two things: first now my DSD256 and DSD512 plays fine but i guess they are being undersampled to 352000hz. And also, and this is quite strange, the low level noise artifacts are completely gone. Now i have cristal clear sound....


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Hello all,

Has anyone here directly compared the NFB-11 or R2R-11 to Schiit's products? I currently use the Modi Multibit DAC & Magni 3 amp and am wondering if the the Audio-GD NFB-11 or R2R-11 would be an upgrade or just more of a sidegrade.


----------



## JKDJedi

isoa4k said:


> Well i think i experience the same issues with DSD. I can hear  low level noise artifacts, like digital jitter on low level parts of some DSD songs. As i said i cannot play DSD256 and DSD512 because foobar throws me an error. If anyone could be so kind to lead me to a proper configuration. Is DSD256 and 512 supported in the R2R 11?


USB PCM model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz , 192kHz, 352.8kHz,384kHz
USB DSD native mode: DSD64 , DSD128, DSD 256 .
 Coaxial model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz 
Optical model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz


----------



## Gambitek

RiflemanFirst said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Has anyone here directly compared the NFB-11 or R2R-11 to Schiit's products? I currently use the Modi Multibit DAC & Magni 3 amp and am wondering if the the Audio-GD NFB-11 or R2R-11 would be an upgrade or just more of a sidegrade.



I use your current setup and will let you know...got an NFB-11 on the way.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Gambitek said:


> I use your current setup and will let you know...got an NFB-11 on the way.



Thanks for the reply. I definitely look forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## Gambitek

I briefly used an LCX and Klipsch Heritage amp...and returned both for being far too "warm and gooey" compared to my Mimby/Magni 3 combo, which I think sits as just around 'colder' without getting into sibilance, especially on a crisp set of cans like my HP-3. I am worried the NFB might be even more glare-ish, but I really like the output switch...I hate unplugging my headphones to use speakers.

Anyways, those are my sonic preferences.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Good to know. I was using the Mimby & Vali 2 and sold the Vali 2 after getting the Magni 3 for similar reasons. I definitely preferred the clarity & crispness of the Magni 3 over the Vali 2. This is probably why I personally prefer the HD660S over my older HD650 (which I plan to sell also).


----------



## JKDJedi

Gambitek said:


> I use your current setup and will let you know...got an NFB-11 on the way.


Leave it on for 2 weeks to bake in before passing any judgments.


----------



## gLer (Mar 9, 2018)

isoa4k said:


> Well in my case i experience this now. DSD up to 128 plays fine with DSD Asio driver on foobar2000. Up to 256 and 512 throws an error about unsupported rate. But if i change in the SACD plugin the output from DSD to PCM then i experience two things: first now my DSD256 and DSD512 plays fine but i guess they are being undersampled to 352000hz. And also, and this is quite strange, the low level noise artifacts are completely gone. Now i have cristal clear sound....


Yes you’re right. DSD over PCM basically converts all DSD to PCM on the fly, which defeats the purpose of listening to native DSD in the first place.

The noise issues only affect DSD output...even DSD64 and DSD128...play a quiet part of a song and turn the volume right up, you’ll hear a storm of what sounds like radio interference.

It’s a major flaw - and one that Kingwa and Audio-GD have not publicly acknowledged. In fact when it was pointed out to them, they referred me to the note on the website about the popping noises, which is something completely unrelated (for the record I have no issue with the popping noises).

I urge anyone with an R2R-11 to have a listen to a few DSDs, see if they can hear the low level noise that affects them, and then email Audio-GD to demand a firmware fix or any other workable solution. They’re basically selling a device that claims to play native DSD but effectively doesn’t.


----------



## JaMo

gLer said:


> Hey guys, does anyone here have the R2R-11 along with the NFB 28.38? Would love to hear how they compare to each other, dac to dac, amp to amp.



Hi, yes I have them both side by side used as dac's feeding a preamp (A-gd Master-1) followed by poweramps (A-gd Master3 and -2's) and speakers.

As dacs they both performs at a high quality level. You have possibly already read about the R2R-11 and its very high value for the money. It has its limitations compared to higher gears.
The R2R-11 only gives dac-signals to headphones or as a dac with fixed or variable level. The 28.38 also give You preamp function for single-end and for balanced use.
The difference i spot soundvise is that the ESS-dac (28.38) performs very, very clear and has more definitions in its presentation. I can also spot a wider freq. response. My 28.38 still has default settings. I have not bothered to test out filterfunctions. It performs as I expected it to do when I bought it. The R2R-11 is more laid back and more forgiving for the music material quality.
You can probably filter the ESSdac be less ruthless to recording. But as I said, I haven't changed anything in the 28.38.

Their amping are very different. The R2R11 is a single end one. It is powerful enough for most headphones and sounds very good.
The 28.38 has a balanced amp that is very powerful. It also has ability to play at high levels, sufficient for the HE-6 and other power hungry headphones. Very good performance!
I have them both as I also said and I will keep them both.

If You don't have a plan to use the 28.38 balanced in a pre-, poweramp-speaker setup, You will probably be better off with the 29.38.

This thread is for the NFB-11.28 and the R2R-11. The NFB-28.38 is the next level, also by its price. All these Audio-gd gears performs far beyond their price. You will be happy with any of them.
/Jan


----------



## gLer

JaMo said:


> Hi, yes I have them both side by side used as dac's feeding a preamp (A-gd Master-1) followed by poweramps (A-gd Master3 and -2's) and speakers.
> 
> As dacs they both performs at a high quality level. You have possibly already read about the R2R-11 and its very high value for the money. It has its limitations compared to higher gears.
> The R2R-11 only gives dac-signals to headphones or as a dac with fixed or variable level. The 28.38 also give You preamp function for single-end and for balanced use.
> ...


Thanks for that. I was really only considering the 28.38 because of the R2R-11 DSD flaw. Other than that I love the R2R sound and don’t need any more power - it powers my LCDs and Atticus with absolute ease and perfect synergy.


----------



## iamjaymo

gLer said:


> Yes you’re right. DSD over PCM basically converts all DSD to PCM on the fly, which defeats the purpose of listening to native DSD in the first place.
> 
> The noise issues only affect DSD output...even DSD64 and DSD128...play a quiet part of a song and turn the volume right up, you’ll hear a storm of what sounds like radio interference.
> 
> ...



I am just not experiencing any of the issues mentioned in this thread regarding DSD and the popping issue. My DSD64 and 128 play flawlessly. Nothing but very nice sound with a black background. Maybe I’m just one of the few but no complaints here with DSD functionality. Tried both DoP and Native and everything is good.


----------



## JaMo

iamjaymo said:


> I am just not experiencing any of the issues mentioned in this thread regarding DSD and the popping issue. My DSD64 and 128 play flawlessly. Nothing but very nice sound with a black background. Maybe I’m just one of the few but no complaints here with DSD functionality. Tried both DoP and Native and everything is good.



Hi, 
I agree. I concider the DSD-ability to be one of the strongest arguments to get the R2R-11. I have the small pops dough but I take that small trade off with a smile for the fantastic sound. The noise mensioned may be caused by the source (PC).
/Jan


----------



## gLer

iamjaymo said:


> I am just not experiencing any of the issues mentioned in this thread regarding DSD and the popping issue. My DSD64 and 128 play flawlessly. Nothing but very nice sound with a black background. Maybe I’m just one of the few but no complaints here with DSD functionality. Tried both DoP and Native and everything is good.


Get a copy of Amber Rubarth’s “Hold On” (DSD128) from her “Sessions” album, and you’ll hear exactly what I’m talking about. It’s only obvious with some DSDs but is there in the quieter passages of most of you turn the volume up. Just be sure you’re actually playing native DSD (and not somehow converting to PCM) because PCM has no issues at all.


----------



## gLer (Mar 10, 2018)

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> I agree. I concider the DSD-ability to be one of the strongest arguments to get the R2R-11. I have the small pops dough but I take that small trade off with a smile for the fantastic sound. The noise mensioned may be caused by the source (PC).
> /Jan


The DSD noise was actually pointed out to me by a friend using Windows (Foobar) and was then immediately obvious when I tried it on my Mac (Audirvana). It was also corroborated by some very senior guys on this forum. I’m not saying there are some units that don’t have the problem, but clearly there are quite a few that do. Also it’s definitey the dac and not the amp, as the noise is still there when the dac feeds my Woo WA3.

Again, for many it’s a non-issue becaus wait few people actually play DSDs. But for those of us that do, it’s a problem that needs solving.

PS. It could be related to - or the same as - a problem with the R2R-11 that was identified on this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7xhnhs/r2r_11_distortion_low_frequency_sweep/


----------



## iamjaymo (Mar 11, 2018)

gLer said:


> The DSD noise was actually pointed out to me by a friend using Windows (Foobar) and was then immediately obvious when I tried it on my Mac (Audirvana). It was also corroborated by some very senior guys on this forum. I’m not saying there are some units that don’t have the problem, but clearly there are quite a few that do. Also it’s definitey the dac and not the amp, as the noise is still there when the dac feeds my Woo WA3.
> 
> Again, for many it’s a non-issue becaus wait few people actually play DSDs. But for those of us that do, it’s a problem that needs solving.
> 
> PS. It could be related to - or the same as - a problem with the R2R-11 that was identified on this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7xhnhs/r2r_11_distortion_low_frequency_sweep/



I should have mentioned I am also using a Mac (have tried it with a MacPro, iMac and at home on my Mini) with the latest version of Audirvana.  I have used the R2R as a DAC only connected to a Schiit Jotunheim and also an Emotiva A-100 all with no issue on any of my DSD files (and I have a lot of DSD).  I am not doubting you guys are hearing some artifact but I don't have the issue - or perhaps your hearing is just that much better than mine.  Therefore, my simple brain tells me it's not a _fundamental_ issue with the R2R but either something in the source/recording or perhaps a batch of bad R2Rs.  I guess I should just shut-up and be happy that either my hearing sucks and I think all amp/dacs sound good or that I got one of the few R2Rs that actually work Lol!


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> The DSD noise was actually pointed out to me by a friend using Windows (Foobar) and was then immediately obvious when I tried it on my Mac (Audirvana). It was also corroborated by some very senior guys on this forum. I’m not saying there are some units that don’t have the problem, but clearly there are quite a few that do. Also it’s definitey the dac and not the amp, as the noise is still there when the dac feeds my Woo WA3.
> 
> Again, for many it’s a non-issue becaus wait few people actually play DSDs. But for those of us that do, it’s a problem that needs solving.
> 
> PS. It could be related to - or the same as - a problem with the R2R-11 that was identified on this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7xhnhs/r2r_11_distortion_low_frequency_sweep/


First world problems..love this country!


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 28, 2018)

I use R2R 11 as dac with stax system and I experience fatigue sound when using as stand alone dac, but I do not have issue when using headphone output .... (edit: issue fixed with eitr)


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, DSD issues aside, can anyone tell me how well the R2R drives the LCD-3? It's exceptionally powerful and clear with my LCD-2F (latest revision), but I'm thinking of possibly stepping up the LCD-3, and will only do so if the R2R (which for now is my main dac/amp)has good synergy with it and doesn't lack any power.


----------



## I g o r

gLer said:


> Hey guys, DSD issues aside, can anyone tell me how well the R2R drives the LCD-3? It's exceptionally powerful and clear with my LCD-2F (latest revision), but I'm thinking of possibly stepping up the LCD-3, and will only do so if the R2R (which for now is my main dac/amp)has good synergy with it and doesn't lack any power.



It drives the LCD-3 extremely well, with plenty of power to spare. Just go for it.


----------



## Gambitek

quick impressions of 11.28 vs mimby/magni 3 on my hp-3

-11.28 seems to tame the bass. i don't need to EQ down the lower mid bass. it's kind of perfect now.

-there's something i don't quite yet like about the treble/detail...a weird sharpness? Not glare...just sounds less "organic". Maybe that's the lack of multibit goodness?

-not sure i could A/B reliably between the two...wondering what the R2R sounds like...but the popping scared me off.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Gambitek said:


> quick impressions of 11.28 vs mimby/magni 3 on my hp-3
> 
> -11.28 seems to tame the bass. i don't need to EQ down the lower mid bass. it's kind of perfect now.
> 
> ...



How long has your 11.28 warmed up? Supposedly these need a bit of warm up and burn in to sound their best. I definitely wouldn't want the popping either and probably won't be getting the R2R-11. For me, I am stuck deciding between the NFB 11.28 or splurging on the NFB 28.38/29.38.


----------



## Gambitek

Warmed up about 3 hours. I like the bass more right now, but there's something I prefer on the mid/upper end with my mimby/magni 3...it sounds less...processed? I don't know. Will revisit in a few days to give my head time to adjust


----------



## Gambitek

why does't schiit make a god damn switch on the magni 3 so I can swap between speakers and headphones....


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Gambitek said:


> why does't schiit make a god damn switch on the magni 3 so I can swap between speakers and headphones....



It would definitely be nice if Schiit had output switches on their amps instead of plugging/unplugging the headphones.


----------



## Gambitek (Mar 12, 2018)

I always considered the mimby/magni3 combo to be more "cold" and "sterile"...but it's actually quite lush and musical compared to the 11.28...I am really not a fan of how analytical and processed it sounds...

keep in mind i ditched a heritage and lcx because it was too 'warm' and 'gooey' so i am not pro 'lush'

i'm gonna try to **** with the filters. does AudioGD include the jumpers for that? or am i gonna have to order jumpers off of amazon...


----------



## thebkt

Gambitek said:


> Warmed up about 3 hours. I like the bass more right now, but there's something I prefer on the mid/upper end with my mimby/magni 3...it sounds less...processed? I don't know. Will revisit in a few days to give my head time to adjust


Maybe give the 11.28/Magni combo a go.  See if your treble issue is dac or amp


----------



## Gambitek

cracked open the nfb...def no extra jumpers. what the hell


----------



## Gambitek

pushed another jumper into FIR 1 (in addition to FIR 0 default), which changes setting to Slow roll-off, Linear: from slow/minimum


MUCH better. Still not as organic as my  mimby/magni 3, but WAY closer. like, this made the difference between me selling it and keeping it I think...

 I am so curious about the R2R now...


----------



## Gambitek

pushed in the two jumpers to make it "warmer"....maybe because it's masking the treble imperfections but these feel even closer my mimby/magni 3 now...I like it a lot...but I do feel I am losing some of the detail I had on the mimby....just a smidge. which is frustrating because the HP-3 has very good detail retrieval...


i feel crazy that such tiny differences seem huge to me.


----------



## thebkt

Give it more than a couple of hours before making any definitive calls


----------



## Gambitek (Mar 13, 2018)

Undid the dark jumpers. Too much loss of clarity on a resolving set of cans like the HP-3. Still running the linear filter.

Overall 11.28 impression: I like the bass and mids. Tighter, more present respectively. Treble, cymbals, some vocals feel inorganic and processed? Soundstage feels less wide.  I was able to tell which DAC/AMP combo (Mimby/Magni 3 vs 11.28) was which in 8/10 tries, blinded. Female vocals lack the clarity on 11.28 compared to the mimby/magni.


Going to bed now; promise I'll listen for a few more days before I make any rash decisions about selling.


----------



## gLer

Gambitek said:


> Undid the dark jumpers. Too much loss of clarity on a resolving set of cans like the HP-3. Still running the linear filter.
> 
> Overall 11.28 impression: I like the bass and mids. Tighter, more present respectively. Treble, cymbals, some vocals feel inorganic and processed? Soundstage feels less wide.  I was able to tell which DAC/AMP combo (Mimby/Magni 3 vs 11.28) was which in 8/10 tries, blinded. Female vocals lack the clarity on 11.28 compared to the mimby/magni.
> 
> ...


Sound like you're hearing the difference between multibit (Mimby) and Delta Sigma (11.28). Organic vs digital. Clinical vs musical. That's why I got the R2R-11, pops and DSD issues be damned, the sound is insane. You'd struggle to find a better all-in-one for $1000 more.


----------



## MelonHead

As my home is under a huge renovation, my desktop PC with the perfectly configured Foobar 2000 player is packed away, but I was curious about the mentioned DSD playback issue. I've evaluated the problem with my Asus Zenbook laptop using Musicbee, Amareno Asio Driver, USB-C to USB 3 adapter, the R2R-11 and my Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro 250ohm headphones .
A couple of well-known DFF files were used during the test because Musicbee -as far as know- doesn't support SACD iso files. I was aware about all the nuances during the setup and the playback. 

The sound was detailed, punchy and organic with every single files. I haven't found any of the mentioned issues in my system.
All in all it was a pleasure to listen to DSD music using the R2R-11 in this very chain.


----------



## Gambitek

gLer said:


> Sound like you're hearing the difference between multibit (Mimby) and Delta Sigma (11.28). Organic vs digital. Clinical vs musical. That's why I got the R2R-11, pops and DSD issues be damned, the sound is insane. You'd struggle to find a better all-in-one for $1000 more.



Thanks. So if you're running Spotify and you click forward on a song there can be popping?


----------



## Gambitek

Part of me is worried that I am not hearing the difference between DACs but rather amps....maybe I just like the Magni 3 sound signature?


----------



## gLer

Gambitek said:


> Thanks. So if you're running Spotify and you click forward on a song there can be popping?


Nope, only when there's a sample rate change, like 44.1 to 96, or a format change, like Flac to DSD.


----------



## RiflemanFirst (Mar 13, 2018)

Gambitek said:


> Part of me is worried that I am not hearing the difference between DACs but rather amps....maybe I just like the Magni 3 sound signature?



Have you tried using the DAC out to the Magni 3 to see if there is a difference?


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Pooping.

Butt no.
I here a small poop when i change from for example TV/optical (48/16) to Tital/USB (44.1/16).
And when I startup the Squeeze-server.

There is a huge poop when I turn of and on the R2R 11 though... 
And a smaller when I change the input.


----------



## Gambitek

RiflemanFirst said:


> Have tou tried using the DAC out to the Magni 3 to see if there is a difference?


I didn't even know that was an option... Time to go get the magni back from the friend I just sent it to


----------



## 439598

What are your guys preference for the likes of a 400i or 560?  these headphones have a special lean and smooth sound that I like, its a difficult choice... should you match them with leaness of NFB or the smoothness of R2R.


----------



## thebkt

Acke said:


> What are your guys preference for the likes of a 400i or 560?  these headphones have a special lean and smooth sound that I like, its a difficult choice... should you match them with leaness of NFB or the smoothness of R2R.


Based purely on my experience with the 560's, I'd suggest the R2R.  To my ears they sounded noticeably better in the treble range when using an R2R DAC, in my case a Mimby.


----------



## MkjK

Gambitek said:


> pushed another jumper into FIR 1 (in addition to FIR 0 default), which changes setting to Slow roll-off, Linear: from slow/minimum



The digital filter is actually set to "minimum phase, FAST roll-off" by default. There is a jumper which is smaller than the others for FIR2 under the Toslink chip.

I use a small "grip-tool" to insert/remove the jumpers.

Make sure that you power off the DAC and wait a bit for the capacitors to discharge before you open it. Also touch some grounded metal to discharge yourself before you get your fingers close to anything inside.

I personally used the "linear phase, slow roll-off" filter for about a month because the treble was ridiculously sharp with the fast roll-off filters.

I don't know if it is just my brain forming new connections or if some components require "burn-in" but it really did improve alot after some 150-200 hours of usage, and after that I could change the setting to "linear phase, fast roll-off" and the sound is smooth, coherent and just awesome.


----------



## 439598

does the R2R have a 'bit depth'?


----------



## Dexon

Acke said:


> does the R2R have a 'bit depth'?



No. Digital music have a bit depth and than its a matter whether R2R dac can read it or not.


----------



## 439598

Dexon said:


> No. Digital music have a bit depth and than its a matter whether R2R dac can read it or not.


and the maximum supported bit depth is...?


----------



## gLer

I g o r said:


> It drives the LCD-3 extremely well, with plenty of power to spare. Just go for it.


Thanks Igor. Have you tried your LCD-3 with other amps as well? How does it compare? On paper the 11.28/R2R-11 have 'just' enough power to drive them, although my experience is that they have much more power than the specs suggest. I have mine set between 9 and 10 o'clock for the LCD-2 (I know volume doesn't equate to synergy or real power, but still), although that's an easier headphone to drive than the 3 I would imagine. Also drives my 300ohm Atticus with ease (and style). Just want to know it'll give the LCD-3's qualities the power they need to shine.


----------



## I g o r

gLer said:


> Thanks Igor. Have you tried your LCD-3 with other amps as well? How does it compare? On paper the 11.28/R2R-11 have 'just' enough power to drive them, although my experience is that they have much more power than the specs suggest. I have mine set between 9 and 10 o'clock for the LCD-2 (I know volume doesn't equate to synergy or real power, but still), although that's an easier headphone to drive than the 3 I would imagine. Also drives my 300ohm Atticus with ease (and style). Just want to know it'll give the LCD-3's qualities the power they need to shine.



I have tried my LCD-3 with the Burson V2 and it is, I would say 15% better especially in the low end, where it really shines with more authority and punch, you can feel the air move. But it costs 4 times more (with DAC).

On my NFB-11.28 I drive the LCD-3 on high gain between 10 and 11 o’clock, and I feel I don’t need another amp. Although I want a Burson V2+ in the future.


----------



## gLer

I g o r said:


> I have tried my LCD-3 with the Burson V2 and it is, I would say 15% better especially in the low end, where it really shines with more authority and punch, you can feel the air move. But it costs 4 times more (with DAC).
> 
> On my NFB-11.28 I drive the LCD-3 on high gain between 10 and 11 o’clock, and I feel I don’t need another amp. Although I want a Burson V2+ in the future.


Thanks - how funny, I was busy reading the specs of the Burson V2 when you replied. Must be fate! Although I would prefer to stick to R2R dacs if and when I upgrade in future. Good to know the NFB drives the LCD-3 so well, can't wait for mine to arrive.


----------



## I g o r

Then just use R2R-11 DAC into the V2 and have fun!


----------



## gLer

I g o r said:


> Then just use R2R-11 DAC into the V2 and have fun!


Or better yet, an NFB-1 (fully balanced). Cheaper too, with the same or more power. What can I say, I like Audio-GD.


----------



## 439598 (Mar 15, 2018)

bunkbail said:


> It is not "only a USB interface". It has galvanic isolation for one, that alone could give massive sound improvement. It also isolate EMI/RFI, significantly lowers jitter and has linear power supply built-in. Sonically, Eitr trumps most USB -> SPDIF converters out there, even the $1000 Mutec MC-3+. You can see the comparison here.
> I also have another USB decrapifier (iFi iPurifier2) that supposedly cleans the USB signal, but I barely hear any difference in sound quality if any. But with Eitr (only Eitr and R2R-11 in the chain), its massive and very apparent, especially the bass. It has way more bass quantity and impact. Sound layering and separation also improves a ton too. But the best thing about the SQ improvement is the vocals, all sibilance is gone, no digital shrill no more.
> 
> My friend had 2 Wyrds before, and it barely makes an improvement to F-1 + Intona, so he sold them. With I2S he thought Singxer SU-1 sounded the best for his DAC (Spring KTE L3) so I assume it might be the same for R2R-7. In the aforementioned blog post above, the poster said for coax, Eitr is better than SU-1 so it went with it for the R2R-11. Also Eitr is the cheapest of the lot, its no brainer. I use a cheap $25 coax cable, but I think Schiit's $20 PYST coax cable should sound the same. Some people said on another forum that Audioquest Diamond/Coffee sounds better than Schiit PYST cable for the Eitr, but for 0.75m the Diamond costs $500, lets not go that path shall we.
> ...


Old post but I experienced a very noticeable improvement with my ODAC when using a cheap regulated 5V supply for the DAC USB power instead of the PC's power. I also used a galvanic USB isolator (from Hifime) but found it didnt make any noticeable improvement to sound quality, I originally bought it to remove digital noise when the DAC was connected to a speaker amp and it worked perfectly for this so its definitely a legit product.

looking at the iFi iPurifier2 it doesnt have a power supply so the improvements you noticed with the Eitr could very likely be down to its power supply.

Before using the power supply I tried a USB3 port instead of USB2 but it made no noticeable improvement either.

EDIT: the ODAC is a fully USB powered DAC where the R2R 11 probably only uses the power for the USB Receiver, the output stage in the ODAC is likely using the power and causing the improvements. Will have to test it myself once the R2R arrives

Edit 2: Stupid post, I assumed the Eitr had a USB out.


----------



## bontaname

MkjK said:


> The digital filter is actually set to "minimum phase, FAST roll-off" by default. There is a jumper which is smaller than the others for FIR2 under the Toslink chip.
> 
> I use a small "grip-tool" to insert/remove the jumpers.
> 
> ...


had the exact same experience. as long as the amp has had >30 minutes to warm up, linear/fast roll-off is the way to go. minimum phase is ok but there were occasional distortion issues


----------



## Neyeah

Hi All,

I am using NFB 11.28 + Schiit Eitr according to the specs page of nfb/r2r is as follows.

USB model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz , 192kHz, 352.8kHz,384kHz
 Coaxial model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz ,192kHz 

If I am playing any file up to 192kHz Coax through Schiit Eitr seems fine.

How about DSD Files ? Would it be recommended coax or usb direct ? Sorry am new for these high quality files.

Thanks


----------



## RiflemanFirst (Mar 19, 2018)

Gambitek said:


> I didn't even know that was an option... Time to go get the magni back from the friend I just sent it to



Any luck? Wondering how you feel about it now after spending some more time with it.


----------



## FredA

gLer said:


> Or better yet, an NFB-1 (fully balanced). Cheaper too, with the same or more power. What can I say, I like Audio-GD.


I have the he560 at home. I drive them with an nfb-1amp. Compared to the r2r 11, you get better bass control, i confirm. I drive them balanced, and you have to to get the full power the amp can output. But bass control is also better when the single-ended out is used. The ouput impedance is lower with the nfb-1amp.


----------



## FredA

Neyeah said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am using NFB 11.28 + Schiit Eitr according to the specs page of nfb/r2r is as follows.
> 
> ...


Dsd is only possible through the usb input. Same for the r2r 11.


----------



## RiflemanFirst

Neyeah said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am using NFB 11.28 + Schiit Eitr according to the specs page of nfb/r2r is as follows.
> 
> ...



IIRC Schiit gear (Eitr and DACs) don't support DSD at all.


----------



## JimJames

Does the R2R 11 have enough juice for the ATH W5000 Raffinato? Someone said the AD2000s are an excellent match, will it be so with the W5000?


----------



## MelonHead

JimJames said:


> Does the R2R 11 have enough juice for the ATH W5000 Raffinato? Someone said the AD2000s are an excellent match, will it be so with the W5000?


I didn't have the chance to test it personally, but I'm sure, the R2R-11 can handle the ATH W5000 easily. As far as I remember, they are 40 Ohm impedance headphones, and this DAC/AMP can manage 600 Ohm cans as well.


----------



## maheeinfy

JimJames said:


> Does the R2R 11 have enough juice for the ATH W5000 Raffinato? Someone said the AD2000s are an excellent match, will it be so with the W5000?


W5000 is a super easy can to drive. Even iPhone can get it very loud

So a dedicated unit like R2R 11 should have no problem driving these


----------



## JimJames

MelonHead said:


> I didn't have the chance to test it personally, but I'm sure, the R2R-11 can handle the ATH W5000 easily. As far as I remember, they are 40 Ohm impedance headphones, and this DAC/AMP can manage 600 Ohm cans as well.





maheeinfy said:


> W5000 is a super easy can to drive. Even iPhone can get it very loud
> 
> So a dedicated unit like R2R 11 should have no problem driving these


Ah yes I saw that later, it seems that they are easy to drive but picky with the sonic properties of the amps (but to the point of having to buy a 1k amp specifically designed for it? come on that sounds stupid) so I'll have to ask in the thread for those cans. Thanks for your answers guys!


----------



## maheeinfy

JimJames said:


> Ah yes I saw that later, it seems that they are easy to drive but picky with the sonic properties of the amps (but to the point of having to buy a 1k amp specifically designed for it? come on that sounds stupid) so I'll have to ask in the thread for those cans. Thanks for your answers guys!


They are bright sounding headphones, so a warm amp should pair well. I use a Project Sunrise and i think it pairs well
When i ran it on Fulla 2 it sounded thin and bright.


----------



## 439598 (Mar 27, 2018)

Got my R2R 11 and its really good.

The DAC sounds fantastic, a significant upgrade from the ODAC, cant say if its is due to it being R2R or just a better DAC. Oversampling  has a big effect on sound, its adds more 'detail'... need more time to evaluate if this is something I like this or not.

The amp is slightly disappointing. Compared to my modified O2 amp it's more laidback and tubby sounding, less dynamic, less vocal presence, its also less forgiving. Technically it is superior to the O2 - its cleaner sounding, better imaging and seperation, more controlled. Very thick sounding compared to the thin/dry O2. These differences might be related to the power difference. Might just be bad synergy with the DAC but you wont hear it any other way without an amp input, hopefully it will get it a bit more punch and air with burn-in.

I listen to mainly hip hop and electronic so keep that in mind

edit: No issues so far with DSD and it sounds really good which is unexpected, too bad its not that popular

Update: after 1 day of burn-in and warm up the amp livened up a bit, seems like the most cliched audiophile claim but my O2 still sounds the same as yesterday and this now sounds better.


----------



## Nickol (Mar 29, 2018)

There are rumors that r2r-11 is a NOS DAC based on a 1-bit multi-bit DAC. And also that the Audio-Gd R2R plays muddy (and dim), viscously and not in detail.
How do you like this? Does anyone hear it on their headphones or systems? Does someone think that r2r plays deafly and not in detail?


----------



## MelonHead (Mar 29, 2018)

What is the source of these rumors? Can you link something?
Just my two cents, but after five weeks of extensive (150+ hours) evaluation I'm still in love with this device. It's crisp, detailed and very-very natural. I tend to use it more and more often in my Electrocompaniet/ProAc hifi system as well.


----------



## joostdh

Nickol said:


> There are rumors that r2r-11 is a NOS DAC based on a 1-bit multi-bit DAC. And also that the Audio-Gd R2R plays muddy (and dim), viscously and not in detail.
> How do you like this? Does anyone hear it on their headphones or systems? Does someone think that r2r plays deafly and not in detail?



Surely this does not warrent a serious reply?


----------



## FredA

Nickol said:


> There are rumors that r2r-11 is a NOS DAC based on a 1-bit multi-bit DAC. And also that the Audio-Gd R2R plays muddy (and dim), viscously and not in detail.
> How do you like this? Does anyone hear it on their headphones or systems? Does someone think that r2r plays deafly and not in detail?


Shill.


----------



## Nickol

MelonHead said:


> What is the source of these rumors? Can you link something?
> Just my two centy, but after five weeks of extensive (150+ hours) evaluation I'm still in love with this device. It's crisp, detailed and very-very natural. I tend to use it more and more often in my Electrocompaniet/ProAc hifi system as well.


I don't know if I can leave link here. One Russian mentioned this at a major forum forum.doctorhead


----------



## shultzee

Definitely not dim and lacking detail. Maybe the person who wrote this is use to some bright saber dac and didn't spend much time with it. Just added a eitr and its even better.  Plus the click is gone when changing sample rates.


----------



## capetownwatches

RojasTKD said:


> Should work just fine. You'll just be bypassing the built in AMP for the NFB 1's AMP.
> 
> My R2R 11 arrives in a couple of days, but later this year I'd likee to get a R2R 2 (DAC) only and either the R2R 1 (balanced DAC) or R2R 2 (single ended DAC) and either a NFB-1 (balanced AMP) or a C 2 (single ended AMP). Mainly due to curiosity. I want to see if there is a discernible difference and worthy of the price difference.



My thinking exactly. 

I'm absolutely loving the R2R11 but am increasingly curious about R2R1+NFB1 combo. 
Incredible bang for the buck, this is indisputable. 
But is it really worth the premium over R2R11 sound-wise?

The rabbit hole is deep with this one...


----------



## thebkt (Mar 29, 2018)

capetownwatches said:


> My thinking exactly.
> 
> I'm absolutely loving the R2R11 but am increasingly curious about R2R1+NFB1 combo.
> Incredible bang for the buck, this is indisputable.
> ...


I just received the R2R-1 to pair with my NFB-1 AMP.  Sounds great!  It's an upgrade from my mimby, that's for sure (as you'd hope for costing 3.5x as much).  I haven't tried the R2R11, but if it's comparable to the mimby, then you'll be getting an audible upgrade... and no pop.  Well... none so far as I've been running it via an Eitr and haven't tried the USB input yet.

edit: I'm not gonna try to describe the sound differences with any fluffy words, but it's certainly more resolving than the mimby.


----------



## RojasTKD (Mar 29, 2018)

thebkt said:


> I just received the R2R-1 to pair with my NFB-1 AMP.  Sounds great!  It's an upgrade from my mimby, that's for sure (as you'd hope for costing 3.5x as much).  I haven't tried the R2R11, but if it's comparable to the mimby, then you'll be getting an audible upgrade... and no pop.  Well... none so far as I've been running it via an Eitr and haven't tried the USB input yet.
> 
> edit: I'm not gonna try to describe the sound differences with any fluffy words, but it's certainly more resolving than the mimby.





thebkt said:


> I just received the R2R-1 to pair with my NFB-1 AMP.  Sounds great!  It's an upgrade from my mimby, that's for sure (as you'd hope for costing 3.5x as much).  I haven't tried the R2R11, but if it's comparable to the mimby, then you'll be getting an audible upgrade... and no pop.  Well... none so far as I've been running it via an Eitr and haven't tried the USB input yet.
> 
> edit: I'm not gonna try to describe the sound differences with any fluffy words, but it's certainly more resolving than the mimby.



I've compared my older 2014 NFB-11 to my new R2R 11 and am hard pressed to tell much of a difference.

I'd like to compare it to a Jotunheim with DAC (there's a Muiltibit option now). Then an R2R1 and NFB-1 Amp. I'd also like to try a Yggdrasil and Ragnarok amp.

If only my income was as big as my curiosity.


----------



## spacequeen7

I was going to post this tomorrow along with  Eitr impressions since it's still in the mail but today I received new USB cable , after listening via USB  HUB (cheap Amazon Basics) for the past 3 weeks I can definitely tell there is a noticeable difference ,it's like lifting a veil
First I thought it was the cable (direct PC hook up ) but as soon as I introduced USB  HUB to the equation I was back in the game ,just my 2c


----------



## TWerk (Mar 29, 2018)

I just bought the NFB 11.28 a few days back. It's so darn good, next day after delivery I had to also grab the R2R-11, it wasn't even up for debate. I also have a Jotenheim which is like wise an excellent amplifier, I'm fortunate to be able to own it all.

My cans are HD6xx/HD600/HE-500. If people are interested in my impressions between the 11.28 and R2R, I can post. I especially like the feature of the 11.28 to adjust the digital filters, which is fun to play with. It is a wonderful amp, like legit all i've been doing is listening to music for hours on end. So crisp, detailed, tight, punchy, the amp can be both dynamic and fun but also beautiful sounding and seductive when required.  I'm really, really impressed and would absolutely recommend this as the way to go for solid state desktop amps that aren't outrageously expensive.

You will know it when you hear it - that these are quality amps.


----------



## RojasTKD

Yggdrasil


TWerk said:


> I just bought the NFB 11.28 a few days back. It's so darn good, next day after delivery I had to also grab the R2R-11, it wasn't even up for debate. I also have a Jotenheim which is like wise an excellent amp, just all really excellent gear, I'm fortunate to be able to own it.
> 
> My cans are HD6xx/HD600/HE-500. If people are interested in my impressions between the 11.28 and R2R, I can post. I especially like the feature of the 11.28 to adjust the digital filters, which is fun to play with. It is a wonderful amp, like legit all i've been doing is listening to music for hours on end. So crisp, detailed, tight, punchy, the amp can be both dynamic and fun but also beautiful sounding and seductive.  I'm really, really impressed and would absolutely recommend this as the way to go for solid state desktop amps that aren't outrageously expensive.
> 
> You will know when you hear it that these are quality amps.



I'd love to hear you impressions and comparisons. Like I mentioned earlier between my older NFB-11 (2014) and my couple of months old R2R 11 I can't really make out much of a difference. With my HE-500s I think the R2R might deliver a more "crisp" better defined cymbal hits or hand clap sounds. But that the only noticable difference I think I heard. I treid some other headphones and not sure that difference was there any longer. So maybe it in my head.

Even though the specs are the same on paper I think the R2R 11 delivers more power through the headphone jack, but the NFB-11 pre-amp to my monitors seems to beliver more power to my powered speakers.  

Among my collection of headphone I also have the HD600, HD650 and HE500. The lack of bass extension from the Sennheiser keep them from being headphones I enjoy a lot. The HE-500 though is probably my favorite of my current 12.

I thinking a Jotunhiem will be my next purchase next month. Have you tried the HE-500 with the R2R 11 DAC and Jotunheim amp and how does it compare to the R2R with it's built in amp? I think if I get a Jotunheim I will get one with a DAC for the flexibility and ability to compare my different gear, just have to decide if I go with the updated 4490 DAC or the new multibit DAC with the Jot. Decisions decisions...


----------



## TWerk (Mar 31, 2018)

The He-500 is a killer headphone. To me, it's like a great pair of speakers, has great balance and detail top to bottom and is fast too. Mids, bass, treble, it's strong everywhere. For the price, and even beyond, in my experience, it doesn't get a whole lot better. I like the Sennhesier headphones a lot as well, they aren't quite on the same level as the 500, but they are more comfortable and are still extremely enjoyable.

I've not gotten the R2R-11 yet, just have the JOT and the 11.28. I really like the JOT when paired with a warmer DAC, I like hooking it up to my Macbook actually, love the way that mates, so I'll look forward to trying the JOT + R2R too! I think the saber dac in the NFB + JOT might be a little bit on the bright side, I'll have to test it. The NFB 11.28 headphone out is exceptional, especially in the fast roll off, linear setting that others on here have also tried.


----------



## Nickol (Mar 30, 2018)

shultzee said:


> Definitely not dim and lacking detail. Maybe the person who wrote this is use to some bright saber dac and didn't spend much time with it. Just added a eitr and its even better.  Plus the click is gone when changing sample rates.


I definitely agree with you. I'm the owner r2r-11. I definitely like it. But maybe I'm stiff in my ear and don't hear something, maybe I'm missing, if someone writes that he's not hear the details in it...

A couple of Russian people write that (I quote here, since I don't think that I will translate exactly - therefore, it will be directly quoted):

_"Настольный ЦАП Audio-Gd R2R 2 отличается от Audio-Gd R2R 1 тем, что 2- не балансный, 1- балансный. Audio-Gd R2R 2 - это как Буратино, который из-за бюрократической ошибки попал в отряд терминаторов - играл мутно, вязко и не детально в отличии от других ЦАПов и комбайнов."
(source: forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=35623&st=1350#entry1033757)_

And this is about the technology of multibit R2R:

_"Что касается "мультибитности" китайских R2R, то все достаточно доступно объяснил Алексей (energetik)- его сборки Lynx и Betta22 довольно известны:
"Если Вы думаете, что r2r технология (в понимании денафрипс в частности) и классический параллельный r2r в виде монолитных матриц одно и то-же, но в разной реализации, то Вы глубоко заблуждаетесь.
r2r в реализации на фпга с кучей резисторов и сдвиговых регистров это скорее semidigidal FIR, который фильтрует однобитный поток (похожий на DSD) “усредняя-фильтруя” его, а не преобразует параллельный код (PCM) на матрице r2r, как классические пареллельники PCM63 (и подобные).
Там однобитный поток (похожий на DSD) идёт по сдвиговым регистрам на выходе которых стоят “r2r”. Выходы соединены между собой. Получается “усреднение-фильтрация” кучки этих уровней. Ещё раз - это вообще не классический параллельный r2r (как его называют мультибит) по типу PCM63 и подобных"
(source: forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=95:414:8205#8205)_


----------



## Nickol (Apr 3, 2018)

By the way, here someone wrote about the problem of clicks (or pops). So, on my R2R11 (tried all three types of connection: coax / optic-spdif / usb, I'm currently using mostly on USB) - no noises, no clicks (pops) when switching from one song to another (when I listen to flac alboms) - no. Everything is just cool. Just transition flac to dsd (or vice versa) - a little bit barely hear a small click, but it's so small and comfortable that you shouldn't pay any attention to it at all.


----------



## capetownwatches

FredA said:


> The musical fidelity x-can if you can get one used. But you will have to control the volume with the r2r 11, cause the x-can can't handle much over 2v signals. But it's a good thing anyway cause the r2r 11 volume control is better.



I have a MF X-Can V3 and have paired it extensively with both NFB11.32 and R2R11 using high gain (2.5V output) without any issues.
On the contrary, the X-Can seems to thrive on the voltage. With an input Z of 47kOhm I see no problem?
Can you perhaps elaborate on your statement that the X-Can can't handle much over 2V?

I happen to think the volume pot on the X-Can is one of it's best features! 
Smooth and precise, great feel and accurate - and a dB scale!
What more does one want?

I am happy to use fixed output exclusively with both DACs - that is how they were designed to operate.


----------



## FredA

capetownwatches said:


> I have a MF X-Can V3 and have paired it extensively with both NFB11.32 and R2R11 using high gain (2.5V output) without any issues.
> On the contrary, the X-Can seems to thrive on the voltage. With an input Z of 47kOhm I see no problem?
> Can you perhaps elaborate on your statement that the X-Can can't handle much over 2V?
> 
> ...


I was refering to the original x-can. I am sure the following versions are as good or better. The original did not have the best pot. Audio-gd uses an rk27, and have generally very transparent volume control.


----------



## TWerk (Apr 3, 2018)

The r2r-11 is like someone mentioned earlier... it's the 11.28 on tubes. There is less separation - more smoothing and smearing together of the sounds. It's overall warmer in tone and less sharply and precisely defined. In terms of details, resolution, dynamics, air, and "impressiveness" I think the 11.28 delivers more - it's just technically more precise and exact.

The r2r-11 is the tube version, I'm actually impressed this is a solid state amp with how it sounds. It's still very enjoyable. It's got more of the lush, liquid smoothness to it. Bass sounds a little rounder too. Super relaxing and fun to listen to, it's euphonic and pleasing to the ears.

If you want a more engaging/dynamic listen, 11.28. If you want a softer, lusher, more liquid and blended out sound, if you want more intimacy, more of a romantic sound, that's the r2r-11. I think if you hear them both back to back, you would agree with my descriptions.

To get the best out of the 11.28, I recommend the fast roll off, linear setting on the filters as many others do. It should really be shipped stock with that setting.

Both are really good at what they do. Certain (laid back) tracks really jive with the r2r-11, but it's more analog whereas the 11.28 is more digital sounding. But i must say, the 11.28 is digital done really well. It's not overly aggressive or fatiguing, just detailed and gorgeous at presenting the music. I am so impressed by both units, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend either for someone looking for a wonderful solid state or tube sounding amp.

As far as which one I like more, personally I like the pure energy and aggression the 11.28 can bring out. On stuff like EDM music (which I listen to the most), it can just be faster and cleaner, it also sounds more dynamic without the type of smoothing/smearing of the musical layers I hear on the R2R-11.

*Last thing - treble is more sharp and there is more sibilance audible on the 11.28. After listening to the R2R for awhile, the more crispy treble pops out most on 28. If you are sensitive to brightness/sparkles, the 11 does an excellent job relaxing that aspect of your music. You notice it less when listening to one or the other for awhile, but more when you switch from one to the other.


----------



## MelonHead

Does somebody have an optimal Foobar 2000 SACD iso/DSD/DFF setup for R2R-11?
I've tried some output methods with DSD Transcoder and foo_dsd_asio but not sure which DSD/DOP settings are the best for bitperfect playback.


----------



## capetownwatches

FredA said:


> I was refering to the original x-can. I am sure the following versions are as good or better. The original did not have the best pot. Audio-gd uses an rk27, and have generally very transparent volume control.



Aha! That would explain it. The V3 is a different beast, significantly upgraded from original.

Anthony Michaelson actually specified the highest grade volume pot for X-Can V3 specifically.
Says he didn't mind spending more in order to give the customer the best possible experience.

My kinda guy - builds gear with soul.

BTW, the pot on NFB11 and R2R11 is sublime too, no argument there!


----------



## FredA

capetownwatches said:


> Aha! That would explain it. The V3 is a different beast, significantly upgraded from original.
> 
> Anthony Michaelson actually specified the highest grade volume pot for X-Can V3 specifically.
> Says he didn't mind spending more in order to give the customer the best possible experience.
> ...


I really considered buying the V3 and even v2. They looked even better than  the original. Love that sound (my friend owns a v1).


----------



## spacequeen7 (Apr 3, 2018)

*


----------



## maheeinfy

New to audio-gd world. Hoping to get some of the questions answered from this thread
1. Seems like NFB 11.28 went through several iterations. Is the current model 11.28 latest in the series? If there is going to be the next version of this, i would hold off for now
2. R2R11 seems like a new release. Does it mean audio-gd might update it as R2R11.1, R2R11.2 and so on ?
3. Are there any recommended upgrades to add to 11.28 when i order from them

TIA


----------



## RojasTKD

maheeinfy said:


> New to audio-gd world. Hoping to get some of the questions answered from this thread
> 1. Seems like NFB 11.28 went through several iterations. Is the current model 11.28 latest in the series? If there is going to be the next version of this, i would hold off for now
> 2. R2R11 seems like a new release. Does it mean audio-gd might update it as R2R11.1, R2R11.2 and so on ?
> 3. Are there any recommended upgrades to add to 11.28 when i order from them
> ...


1. NFB-11.28 is the most recent version (Since June 2017)
2. Yes they will likely update the R2R 11 at some point.
3. I'm not really sure, I think many find the upgrade options to not be a necessity.

These are fairly recent models and not likely to see another update in the immediate future.


----------



## VilMo

News from the Audio-gd Web site:

*R2R 11 firmware update inform*

Since 28th March, R2R 11 had the updated firmware . 

The update for remove the "pop" sound while switch the music tracks in PCM mode  in computer, and smoother the "pop" noise while  switch between PCM and DSD.

The firmware update had not included mute design , so had not degrade or improve on sound quality ,just  for the better user experiences.

If you don't care the "pop" sound while select the track, you don't want update the firmware.
The unit shipped later than 28th March , it don't want update.


----------



## MelonHead

Thanks VilMo for the good news.
If you don't find the firmware here is a link to it: 
ISE 14.7 Windows 10
A registered account seems to be mandatory for the download.


----------



## Tiflotin

MelonHead said:


> Thanks VilMo for the good news.
> If you don't find the firmware here is a link to it:
> ISE 14.7 Windows 10
> A registered account seems to be mandatory for the download.



Is there a tutorial on how to upgrade the firmware on the R2R-11?


----------



## gLer

Tiflotin said:


> Is there a tutorial on how to upgrade the firmware on the R2R-11?


Yes, it’s on the AGD site. You need a Windows computer and an additional hardware dongle (that you have to buy yourself), along with the firmware file. Good luck!


----------



## Tiflotin

gLer said:


> Yes, it’s on the AGD site. You need a Windows computer and an additional hardware dongle (that you have to buy yourself), along with the firmware file. Good luck!



Sweet thanks. Gonna order the dongle and give it a shot. Looks very straight forward.


----------



## isoa4k

Hello everyone! Now its been two months with my R2R11 and i have to say that i do love the sound and it pairs really good with my brand new LCD2. But i have some a big doubt that is making me uncomfortable...

I can hear some distortion in low frequencies when they play alone. It happens in some tracks that i do play on Jriver or Foobar with no process at all. Mostly FLAC at 44khz, 16 or 24bit. Using Asio Driver. Sometimes i hear that a deep bassline (electronic mostly, my genre, IDM,  Ambient) distorts hearing unwanted high frequencies in the sound . I tried with both my LCD2 and my GMP 8.35D and i can hear and reproduce this defect on both units. What i also experienced is trying to play the same portion of the song trough my LG V20 phone wich has an ESS sigmadelta DAC and i dont hear this defect. I can hear the frequencies close to what i call "distort" (sorry about my lame description) but it doesnt "rattle" as with my R2R11. So now im wondering if this is normal due to the R2R nature of this dac/amp and higher THD levels or is that my unit has some kind of issue? Thanks for your reading and i hope you can point me out to a proper solution.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Apr 11, 2018)

isoa4k said:


> Hello everyone! Now its been two months with my R2R11 and i have to say that i do love the sound and it pairs really good with my brand new LCD2. But i have some a big doubt that is making me uncomfortable...
> 
> I can hear some distortion in low frequencies when they play alone. It happens in some tracks that i do play on Jriver or Foobar with no process at all. Mostly FLAC at 44khz, 16 or 24bit. Using Asio Driver. Sometimes i hear that a deep bassline (electronic mostly, my genre, IDM,  Ambient) distorts hearing unwanted high frequencies in the sound . I tried with both my LCD2 and my GMP 8.35D and i can hear and reproduce this defect on both units. What i also experienced is trying to play the same portion of the song trough my LG V20 phone wich has an ESS sigmadelta DAC and i dont hear this defect. I can hear the frequencies close to what i call "distort" (sorry about my lame description) but it doesnt "rattle" as with my R2R11. So now im wondering if this is normal due to the R2R nature of this dac/amp and higher THD levels or is that my unit has some kind of issue? Thanks for your reading and i hope you can point me out to a proper solution.



I'm pretty sure it's the file /recording you listening to and not R2R11 ,I start picking up  distortion in few tracks-Flack files/also bass heavy DUB/electronic music (some of them are very poorly done)  but it turned out to be the recording ,compared to my Schiit Modi=>DarkVoice 336Se=>HD650
Edit; BTW ..Flack or DSD file it doesn't mean it will be distortion free file ,I have some DSD files that you can't find anything in them and some that are not that great same goes for Flack

Edit; you can install this extension for Foobar 2000 ,it's much easier to locate and repeat


----------



## MelonHead (Apr 11, 2018)

isoa4k said:


> Hello everyone! Now its been two months with my R2R11 and i have to say that i do love the sound and it pairs really good with my brand new LCD2. But i have some a big doubt that is making me uncomfortable...
> 
> I can hear some distortion in low frequencies when they play alone. It happens in some tracks that i do play on Jriver or Foobar with no process at all. Mostly FLAC at 44khz, 16 or 24bit. Using Asio Driver. Sometimes i hear that a deep bassline (electronic mostly, my genre, IDM,  Ambient) distorts hearing unwanted high frequencies in the sound . I tried with both my LCD2 and my GMP 8.35D and i can hear and reproduce this defect on both units. What i also experienced is trying to play the same portion of the song trough my LG V20 phone wich has an ESS sigmadelta DAC and i dont hear this defect. I can hear the frequencies close to what i call "distort" (sorry about my lame description) but it doesnt "rattle" as with my R2R11. So now im wondering if this is normal due to the R2R nature of this dac/amp and higher THD levels or is that my unit has some kind of issue? Thanks for your reading and i hope you can point me out to a proper solution.


I have the LG V20 as well. Even-though I'm satisfied with the capabilities of the phone when I'm away from home, I find the R2R 11 even better in every aspect. I'm leaning to agree with what spacequeen7 mentioned. The R2R-11 shows you unforgivingly the failures of the not well engineered recordings. 
My Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro is decent but definitely isn't among the best headphones but I can hear these distortions with some sub-par quality albums/tracks. On the other side I don't find any problem even with bass-heavy albums if they were well-recorded.
One more idea: there is a small chance that your R2R-11 collects digital noise from your laptop/computer over the USB connection which can result a distorted sound character.
What kind of music do you listen to? Maybe I can download some tracks if you name a few among the problematic tracks and try by myself.


----------



## iamjaymo

isoa4k said:


> Hello everyone! Now its been two months with my R2R11 and i have to say that i do love the sound and it pairs really good with my brand new LCD2. But i have some a big doubt that is making me uncomfortable...
> 
> I can hear some distortion in low frequencies when they play alone. It happens in some tracks that i do play on Jriver or Foobar with no process at all. Mostly FLAC at 44khz, 16 or 24bit. Using Asio Driver. Sometimes i hear that a deep bassline (electronic mostly, my genre, IDM,  Ambient) distorts hearing unwanted high frequencies in the sound . I tried with both my LCD2 and my GMP 8.35D and i can hear and reproduce this defect on both units. What i also experienced is trying to play the same portion of the song trough my LG V20 phone wich has an ESS sigmadelta DAC and i dont hear this defect. I can hear the frequencies close to what i call "distort" (sorry about my lame description) but it doesnt "rattle" as with my R2R11. So now im wondering if this is normal due to the R2R nature of this dac/amp and higher THD levels or is that my unit has some kind of issue? Thanks for your reading and i hope you can point me out to a proper solution.



Same thing happened to me. It ended up being a Schiit Sys amp/source switcher causing the distortion. Soon as I took it out of the chain. All good.

It took me a whole lot of work to ID the issue. Could be something you didn’t anticipate causing the problem ...just a thought.


----------



## RojasTKD

VilMo said:


> News from the Audio-gd Web site:
> 
> *R2R 11 firmware update inform*
> 
> ...



I'm a little confused especially regarding this line:



VilMo said:


> The firmware update had not included mute design , so had not degrade or improve on sound quality ,just  for the better user experiences.



I assume "had" here means "it dosen't" include a mute design and not, "it didn't" (pas tense) but does now. But not sure, is there or isn't there a mute feature incorporated?

Coming from an older 2014 NFB-11 I much rather have the "pop" (misnomer it's more like a small click) than the mute.

Either way I'll probably not bother as the small "click" doesn't bother me and don't want to bother with getting the dongle.


----------



## VilMo

RojasTKD said:


> I'm a little confused especially regarding this line:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The "pop" does not bother me either, in fact after the first month of use it almost disappeared and is like a very faint vinyl click. I rather quoted the AGD site for those who have bigger issue with this. I myself am not planning to upgrade the firmware but am curious whether it will solve the problem for those who have it. 

The difference in the strength of the "pop" makes me speculate if this can be explained with the existence and extent of ground loops in different setups. Can anyone with better understanding of the principles of power supply in audioland comment on this blind guess?


----------



## FredA (Apr 13, 2018)

The r2r 11 will still not have a muting circuit. The new firmware does the job, somehow, of handling rate changes without causing popping noise. I will test it myself. I don't expect any sound degradation. Kingwa just misuses the past tense. I am used to it.


----------



## maheeinfy

Does A-Gd do sales?

For anyone who bought directly from them shipped to US, did you pay customs fee


----------



## iamjaymo

maheeinfy said:


> Does A-Gd do sales?
> 
> For anyone who bought directly from them shipped to US, did you pay customs fee



Just straight shipping fees.  Added like $35 or so to the cost (I believe).


----------



## Tiflotin

Does anyone have issues with the R2R-11 after waking your computer from sleep? I have it plugged in via USB but whenever I wake my computer from sleep no sound comes out and I have to unplug and plug in my R2R-11 to hear the sound again.


----------



## motberg

FredA said:


> The r2r 11 will still not have a muting circuit. The new firmware does the job, somehow, of handling rate changes without causing popping noise. I will test it myself. I don't expect any sound degradation. Kingwa just misuses the past tense. I am used to it.


From what I noticed here in China past tense seems mostly implied by context.... so I think these kind of misuses could be expected......


----------



## gLer

The first person to post first hand accounts of the R2R-11 firmware update here wins a big prize!


----------



## MelonHead

Tiflotin said:


> Does anyone have issues with the R2R-11 after waking your computer from sleep? I have it plugged in via USB but whenever I wake my computer from sleep no sound comes out and I have to unplug and plug in my R2R-11 to hear the sound again.


Mine is working flawlessly after resuming from sleep. I guess it's more an usb wake-up/computer or software problem than an R2R-11 issue.


----------



## RojasTKD

Tiflotin said:


> Does anyone have issues with the R2R-11 after waking your computer from sleep? I have it plugged in via USB but whenever I wake my computer from sleep no sound comes out and I have to unplug and plug in my R2R-11 to hear the sound again.


I have not experienced this problem.


----------



## tauceti

anyone did the firmware upgrade and did you notice any difference? Don't wanna buy a hardware dongle


----------



## FredA

tauceti said:


> anyone did the firmware upgrade and did you notice any difference? Don't wanna buy a hardware dongle


I have one coming within the next few weeks. I will report on this. But i would assume the guys that are getting their r2r 11 as of now will get the fix. Can anyone with a new r2r 11 comment on the popping?


----------



## Anaz

I recently bought a TOS Link cable to connect my R2R 11 to a Mac mini...I mainly listen to Apple Music and so have the sample rate set at 44.1 kHz ... Anyway I was playing around with the mini’s sound output and when I set the output sample rate to 192 kHz the music out of the R2R 11 is accompanied by a screeching noise. When set to 176 kHz no sound plays through the R2R 11.

I tested 176 and 192 kHz to a Mojo and the music sounded fine.


----------



## FredA

Anaz said:


> I recently bought a TOS Link cable to connect my R2R 11 to a Mac mini...I mainly listen to Apple Music and so have the sample rate set at 44.1 kHz ... Anyway I was playing around with the mini’s sound output and when I set the output sample rate to 192 kHz the music out of the R2R 11 is accompanied by a screeching noise. When set to 176 kHz no sound plays through the R2R 11.
> 
> I tested 176 and 192 kHz to a Mojo and the music sounded fine.


Toslink must not support beyond 96/24, not stated formally but it's almost universal with dacs.


----------



## spacequeen7

maximum optical  sampling  rate is 192kHz all tho R2R 11 can only swing 96kHz
_Optical model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz_


----------



## Tiflotin

FredA said:


> Toslink must not support beyond 96/24, not stated formally but it's almost universal with dacs.





spacequeen7 said:


> maximum optical  sampling  rate is 192kHz all tho R2R 11 can only swing 96kHz
> _Optical model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz_



When I set my optical output to 24bit 96000hz I get a horrible screeching noise but it says the R2R-11 should support it.

Video: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8y0zm2f5vnh3k9t/VID_20180419_000849.mp4

I use the following cable if it matters: https://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-Digital-Optical-Audio-Toslink/dp/B005LJQMZC

And the optical out from my EVGA Z97 FTW motherboard: https://www.evga.com/articles/00835/

any ideas why?


----------



## spacequeen7

Tiflotin said:


> When I set my optical output to 24bit 96000hz I get a horrible screeching noise but it says the R2R-11 should support it.
> 
> Video: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8y0zm2f5vnh3k9t/VID_20180419_000849.mp4
> 
> ...


I would contact Kingwa via email ,you shouldn't have any problems at that  rate 
Cheers


----------



## FredA (Apr 19, 2018)

Tiflotin said:


> When I set my optical output to 24bit 96000hz I get a horrible screeching noise but it says the R2R-11 should support it.
> 
> Video: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8y0zm2f5vnh3k9t/VID_20180419_000849.mp4
> 
> ...


Do you have other devices connected through the other inputs? If so, try turning them off. Disconnect the usb if connected to the same computer. Try other rates and another source, like a dvd player.

 Also, your optical out has to be configured to output 2-channel pcm. It is perhaps set up to ouput a home theater format.


----------



## MelonHead

I'm not a windows expert, but I guess the Amanero Digital output should be the dedicated playback device.


----------



## Tiflotin

MelonHead said:


> I'm not a windows expert, but I guess the Amanero Digital output should be the dedicated playback device.



I'm not using USB I'm using the optical port.



FredA said:


> Do you have other devices connected through the other inputs? If so, try turning them off. Disconnect the usb if connected to the same computer. Try other rates and another source, like a dvd player.
> 
> Also, your optical out has to be configured to output 2-channel pcm. It is perhaps set up to ouput a home theater format.



I have the optical out running on 2 channel 24bit 96000hz. 2 channel 24bit 4800/44100 work fine. Only get this noise with 96000hz which I would like to use for my 96000hz FLAC music.


----------



## FredA

Tiflotin said:


> I'm not using USB I'm using the optical port.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the optical out running on 2 channel 24bit 96000hz. 2 channel 24bit 4800/44100 work fine. Only get this noise with 96000hz which I would like to use for my 96000hz FLAC music.


Well. Could be that your optical out is too noisy or jittery. Or a defect.


----------



## Tiflotin

FredA said:


> Well. Could be that your optical out is too noisy or jittery. Or a defect.



Yeah I emailed Kingwa we will see what he says. In the meantime I will try another desktop with optical audio.


----------



## Anaz

FredA said:


> Toslink must not support beyond 96/24, not stated formally but it's almost universal with dacs.





spacequeen7 said:


> maximum optical  sampling  rate is 192kHz all tho R2R 11 can only swing 96kHz
> _Optical model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz_



Thank you the replies, you are correct R2R 11 optical accepts 96 kHz max.


----------



## spacequeen7

I'm on W7x64 and have only two supported formats checked, 96 and 192kHz,all working great ,R2R 11 sounds great via optical as well ,I would say about 50~60% of my Flack music is 24/96kHz or less so optical is great option to have ..very smooth and some might say that it sounds livelier then via USB 
Cheers


----------



## Leopanda

spacequeen7 said:


> I'm on W7x64 and have only two supported formats checked, 96 and 192kHz,all working great ,R2R 11 sounds great via optical as well ,I would say about 50~60% of my Flack music is 24/96kHz or less so optical is great option to have ..very smooth and some might say that it sounds livelier then via USB
> Cheers
> pic



I have bought a usb cable from AudioQuest (Pearl) a couple of weeks ago, didn't expect anything of it because I never thought a usb cable can make the sound better.
But I've heard _a little _better bass control and_ a bit _more details in high freqs. And continue to hear that on all my well-known tracks with both of my pairs of headphones.

Maybe the blue stock cable that comes with R2R 11 is just made of shiit, I don't know. I still do not believe in massive imrovements of using an expensive usb cable vs a decent but fairly cheap one.


----------



## Tiflotin

So it turns out I have the latest firmware on my R2R11 because it got shipped March 30th.

I do not hear any audible pops in foobar when switching between different FLAC songs (44100, 48000, 96000, 192000 different formats).

I still do hear very faint popping sounds when watching YouTube videos/twitch streams or playing games.


----------



## Whitigir (Apr 21, 2018)

I am curious, how many of you guys are using AudioGD with headphones ? My r2r7 sounds bass head level in comparison to lks004 DAC.  Yeah, I know burn in, but I have never seen burn-in that transform bass head level into dead neutral, and the people who claim r2r7 is neutral are using speakers while I have Stax SR009

Don’t mention about cables, because everything I have is Solid-Silver, even the Powercord for my system.  So, let’s talk about sound signatures.  Is audio GD known for basshead house sound ?


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> I am curious, how many of you guys are using AudioGD with headphones ? My r2r7 sounds bass head level in comparison to lks004 DAC.  Yeah, I know burn in, but I have never seen burn-in that transform bass head level into dead neutral, and the people who claim r2r7 is neutral are using speakers while I have Stax SR009
> 
> Don’t mention about cables, because everything I have is Solid-Silver, even the Powercord for my system.  So, let’s talk about sound signatures.  Is audio GD known for basshead house sound ?


I do. I have a pair of he560. I get the same signature using the hifiman cable as i do with speakers.

It's the nature of this dac. The number of matched transistor pairs is big and they do not break-in at synchronously. Same for the precision resistors. There are over 350 per board (it is double-sided). I have never owned a component that changed so much during break-in, especially the first 300 hours, and it goes on beyond. The output stages needed 6 months to reached their full potential. At some point, you will hear it as neutral, then it will depart from neutrality and come back. Roller coaster effect.


----------



## FredA

Sorry, wrong thread.


----------



## spacequeen7

Whitigir said:


> I am curious, how many of you guys are using AudioGD with headphones ? My r2r7 sounds bass head level in comparison to lks004 DAC.  Yeah, I know burn in, but I have never seen burn-in that transform bass head level into dead neutral, and the people who claim r2r7 is neutral are using speakers while I have Stax SR009
> 
> Don’t mention about cables, because everything I have is Solid-Silver, even the Powercord for my system.  So, let’s talk about sound signatures.  Is audio GD known for basshead house sound ?


I'm glad you mention this ,don't know about r2r7 but my R2R11 is the only SS I have ever tried that's not lacking in low end department-20Hz region is very well controlled on my LCD-2's and it makes them thump-ers ,almost physical  low end on some tracks 
I doubt the burn in will make a difference ..I hope not


----------



## FredA

spacequeen7 said:


> I'm glad you mention this ,don't know about r2r7 but my R2R11 is the only SS I have ever tried that's not lacking in low end department-20Hz region is very well controlled on my LCD-2's and it makes them thump-ers ,almost physical  low end on some tracks
> I doubt the burn in will make a difference ..I hope not


The r2r 11 does not change very much with burn in. You get cleaner bass and a more detailed sound. Takes 2 weeks or so of continuous playback. I am in love with mine. I can't believe how good it sounds with everything. All genres are rendered extremely well, that amazes me. Tonal richness, and the textures you get are simply unbelievable at that piece point.


----------



## Whitigir

spacequeen7 said:


> I'm glad you mention this ,don't know about r2r7 but my R2R11 is the only SS I have ever tried that's not lacking in low end department-20Hz region is very well controlled on my LCD-2's and it makes them thump-ers ,almost physical  low end on some tracks
> I doubt the burn in will make a difference ..I hope not



Follow this post that I made in the r2r7 thread

R2r7 upgrade posts

I do not think that the sound will change from basshead level into neutral and transparency by burn-in.  You are safe, it will probably be further improve upon what it currently have.

Yes, I do agree that the sub-bass and lower bass on the AudioGD r2r7 is awesome ! Hefty and punchy, slamming.  After the upgrades done to it, now it is healthy and punching my heart out.  It no longer has that sticky, gooey, gluing together feeling anymore


----------



## iamjaymo

FredA said:


> The r2r 11 does not change very much with burn in. You get cleaner bass and a more detailed sound. Takes 2 weeks or so of continuous playback. I am in love with mine. I can't believe how good it sounds with everything. All genres are rendered extremely well, that amazes me. Tonal richness, and the textures you get are simply unbelievable at that piece point.



Agree with this post in terms of burn-in. The character of the amp certainly doesn’t change. And any change, at least for me, could very well have been perceived as I was getting used to sound. It sounded fantastic since day one and I submit, would be very difficult to beat at the price point.


----------



## FredA (Apr 21, 2018)

iamjaymo said:


> Agree with this post in terms of burn-in. The character of the amp certainly doesn’t change. And any change, at least for me, could very well have been perceived as I was getting used to sound. It sounded fantastic since day one and I submit, would be very difficult to beat at the price point.


It's just unbelievably good and enjoyable, and anyone with a working pair of ears should agree. And now it seems the popping is fixed ( will try the new fw soon). Some could have an issue with crosstalk between the digital inputs. I don't, i just use usb. Combined with the k553, it makes a perfect office setup.


----------



## BabetakCZE (Apr 22, 2018)

I've had a little listening session this week with R2R11.
HD 800 S was for me the best. Super clean with a lot of detail and fixed 6KHz peak that was apparent on classic HD 800.


----------



## spacequeen7

Patiently waiting for someone with Beyerdynamic T1 impressions


----------



## colinallcarz

Anyone know how well the NFB-11.28 does with an LCD-X?


----------



## gLer

Hey guys, does anyone here have a Questyle CMA-400i they can compare and contrast with the R2R-11?


----------



## MelonHead (May 3, 2018)

gLer said:


> Yes you’re right. DSD over PCM basically converts all DSD to PCM on the fly, which defeats the purpose of listening to native DSD in the first place.
> 
> The noise issues only affect DSD output...even DSD64 and DSD128...play a quiet part of a song and turn the volume right up, you’ll hear a storm of what sounds like radio interference.
> 
> ...


The house renovation is over, therefore I could get my desktop PC with the properly configured Foobar 2000 back.
*Unfortunately I can confirm that the SACD DSD playback noise issue is there if I use the native DSD or DSD+PCM output mode.* It doesn't matter which DSD output device is activated nor the ASIO driver adjustments, neither the DSD processor setup. The digital noise is there during most SACD DSD,/ISO file playback which contains quiet parts as it was mentioned earlier . When I change the output mode to PCM, the noise completely disappears, but it is not pure DSD playback, which means, the R2R-11 doesn't utilize its DSD capabilities -afaik-. The problem is more upfront when I listen to high dynamic range classical orchestral music and less noticeable with rock, jazz or more compressed DR albums.

I'll test this problem tonight with my ASUS ultrabook using the same FB2000 settings there and will come back with the results but right now I'm highly disappointed in this issue. 
Native DSD playback was one of my main aspect during the HP DAC selection process.

If you know any remedy, please let me know the required button, setup, plug-in or feature which helps Foobar 2000 and Audio-gd R2R-11 in a satisfying pure DSD playback.


----------



## xenithon

None that I’m aware of unfortunately. Two issues are:
- pops between tracks of different bitrates/frequencies (fixed in firmware released by AGD); workaround is upsampling all tracks to max rate
- DSD noise issues (no fix); workaround is downsampling / converting to PCM


----------



## MelonHead

xenithon said:


> None that I’m aware of unfortunately. Two issues are:
> - pops between tracks of different bitrates/frequencies (fixed in firmware released by AGD); workaround is upsampling all tracks to max rate
> - DSD noise issues (no fix); workaround is downsampling / converting to PCM



For the sake of demonstrating the problem, here is a link to some files which was recorded by me.
They are low quality records as I used my HPs and an LG V20, but I'm sure even if there is some background noise, you can hear the annoying digital noise at the beginning of the DSD tracks. For reference, I included two other files which will refer to PCM mode during the playback.
*DSD and PCM playback*
_DSD in file names means DSD output mode
PCM in file names means PCM playback_

I've sent an e-mail to Magna Hifi with my observations as well.
They were very cooperative and helpful during the sales process and I believe they will do their best to solve this problem.


----------



## Whitigir

Are you using usb input when observing the noises ?


----------



## MelonHead

Yes, as far as I know DSD is only possible via USB.
The same USB port is in use during the PCM playback as well,


----------



## Whitigir

Does your usb input has linear powersupply daughter board and the isolator board ?


----------



## MelonHead (May 3, 2018)

Thanks for your support Whitigir!
No, I don't have a linear power supply.
Would You like to know whether the R2R-11 is collecting digital noise via the USB cable from the computer?
That was the first idea which came into my mind, but even if this is an option, there is only a small chance on it. This is why:

Before my first comment regarding this issue, I've tried 6 usb ports on the PC and two additional USB hubs also.
There is not a single sign of this digital noise in DSD to PCM conversion mode, or with any kind of lossless or lossy files with the same HW setup.
Additionally, when I try the same track several times the noise patterns sound very similar during every replay.
I will try this with JRiver if that player has native DSD support, and I'll evaluate the problem on my  ultrabook as soon as possible.

Edit: Same digital noise with Jriver native DSD mode...


----------



## Whitigir

Actually, I found USB input to be full of “errors” in my venture with the R2R-7.  I had to replace the internal wirings to finally get to love it.  I just wonder if you have that isolator stack.  If you don’t, you can try different DSP ?  I know Dithering and PLLEN can help


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> Actually, I found USB input to be full of “errors” in my venture with the R2R-7.  I had to replace the internal wirings to finally get to love it.  I just wonder if you have that isolator stack.  If you don’t, you can try different DSP ?  I know Dithering and PLLEN can help


There is no settings with the r2r 11, not even a dsp. It is very basic. It is a very simple design. All digitals inputs go straight to each da-8 modules, which do eveything.


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> There is no settings with the r2r 11, not even a dsp. It is very basic. It is a very simple design. All digitals inputs go straight to each da-8 modules, which do eveything.


That is unfortunate, then just fix the usb module ?


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> That is unfortunate, then just fix the usb module ?


Maybe redo the wiring...


----------



## MelonHead

Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver. 
Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music. 

Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution_ -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere_-  from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11. 
I hope this problem only belongs to my sample or a few other units, and it is not a general design or assembly failure.

PS.: I consider buying the firmware upgrade cable, but right now I can't find the former information on audio-gd website. Would somebody be so kind and share an e-bay link with the officially recommended cable?


----------



## FredA

MelonHead said:


> Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver.
> Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music.
> 
> Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution_ -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere_-  from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11.
> ...


Have you considered returning your unit to have it checked?

As for the usb programmer, it has to be compatible with XC2C64 CPLD. Ask the vendor or read the ebay description carefully. I have one on order, Once i get it, i'll be able to recommend it if works.


----------



## gLer (May 4, 2018)

MelonHead said:


> Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver.
> Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music.
> 
> Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution_ -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere_-  from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11.
> ...


The bad news is that this is a general flaw in all the R2R-11 units that I’m personally aware of. It’s limited to DSD playback like you say, and mainly noticeable in quieter passages of classical and jazz music. In fact, most of my classical DSDs are now unplayable on the R2R-11, and so I’ve set Audirvana to convert DSD to PCM on the fly. Still sounds fantastic, but of course if you want native DSD, too bad.

Also as far as I know there’s no fix for it. They’ve supposedly fixed the pops, but I haven’t yet heard any feedback on whether or not the firmware update addresses the DSD issue. In my many discussions with Kingwa - via my local agent - he claims the noise is there because as a NOS dac, it doesn’t and won’t filter any low level noise artefacts - even though he couldn’t explain why these were limited to DSD playback.

Since ladder dacs have no way to actually play DSD files natively, I can only assume it’s a fault with the DSD playback chip or module or whatever else they’re using to actually “play” native DSD, if in fact it’s being played back natively at all.

Bottom line, if you have lots of DSDs - especially classical and jazz - and insist on playing them without PCM conversion, then however much it pains me to say it, the R2R-11 is (currently) not the solution. I really hope it gets fixed, otherwise it won’t be my long term solution either, however brilliant the sound (and it is brilliant with all my headphones).

PS. An even bigger question for me is if the same noise is present in the R2R-1 and R2R-2 dacs, because one of those were going to be my upgrade path. However if they also have issues with DSD playback, I’ll be forced to look elsewhere, and probably abandon Audio-GD altogether. I really hope it doesn’t come to that.


----------



## Whitigir

Native DSD playback on R2R7 also have the pop sounds.  That is because the chips are constantly in PCM modes, and has to switch internally to do native DSD, at the end of a DSD file, the chips is back to PCM, and when another DSD is being played back. It would then switch again, so the “pop”

My R2R-7 did have hiss and noises while playing back Jazz or acoustic, and i found out that it was due to the internal wirings of the Amanero modules.  What USB interface does R2R11 use ? Is there a picture ?


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> Native DSD playback on R2R7 also have the pop sounds.  That is because the chips are constantly in PCM modes, and has to switch internally to do native DSD, at the end of a DSD file, the chips is back to PCM, and when another DSD is being played back. It would then switch again, so the “pop”
> 
> My R2R-7 did have hiss and noises while playing back Jazz or acoustic, and i found out that it was due to the internal wirings of the Amanero modules.  What USB interface does R2R11 use ? Is there a picture ?


Wow, pops and noises on their TOTL dac!? That’s unacceptable. On a $350 maybe, but on a $2500 dac? I’d go crazy if that happened to me, and it would be sent straight back.

Yes the R2R-11 has an Amanero interface - which I suspect is the issue. Were your R2R-7 problems solved?


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> Wow, pops and noises on their TOTL dac!? That’s unacceptable. On a $350 maybe, but on a $2500 dac? I’d go crazy if that happened to me, and it would be sent straight back.
> 
> Yes the R2R-11 has an Amanero interface - which I suspect is the issue. Were your R2R-7 problems solved?



I actually don’t mind the “pop” much.  He could have put in a “soft mute” into the chain, but it “degrades” the sound performances.

Yes, the problem was solved with USB Amanero

If you have Coax/SPdIF, I would recommend that input instead, because fixing Amanero is a bit of a work.  You can ask Kingwa to fix or upgrade it though


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> I actually don’t mind the “pop” much.  He could have put in a “soft mute” into the chain, but it “degrades” the sound performances.
> 
> Yes, the problem was solved with USB Amanero
> 
> If you have Coax/SPdIF, I would recommend that input instead, because fixing Amanero is a bit of a work.  You can ask Kingwa to fix or upgrade it though


I don’t mind the pops either to be honest, and they’ve been fixed with firmware.

How was the Amanero problem solved in the R2R-7? Was it a hardware fix or firmware update? The R2R-11 doesn’t support DSD over coax or optical, only USB.


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> I don’t mind the pops either to be honest, and they’ve been fixed with firmware.
> 
> How was the Amanero problem solved in the R2R-7? Was it a hardware fix or firmware update? The R2R-11 doesn’t support DSD over coax or optical, only USB.



It depends on how severe the problems is.  The fix was found due to the Brass Pins connections between the modules stack.  Also the Ribbon cables which is only 30awg does not help anything, so it is wires replacement, hardware level


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> It depends on how severe the problems is.  The fix was found due to the Brass Pins connections between the modules stack.  Also the Ribbon cables which is only 30awg does not help anything, so it is wires replacement, hardware level


Wow, I can’t see that being offered as a fix for the R2R-11. I wonder if the R2R-1/2 have the same noise issues?


----------



## MelonHead

FredA said:


> Have you considered returning your unit to have it checked?
> 
> As for the usb programmer, it has to be compatible with XC2C64 CPLD. Ask the vendor or read the ebay description carefully. I have one on order, Once i get it, i'll be able to recommend it if works.


I'm waiting for my (used) Beyerdynamic Amiron Home which I traded from a fellow US Head-fier. I don't want to make any long-term decision until this HP will be tested thoroughly.
Beside that I'm waiting further response from Magna-Hifi as they have replied on my e-mail yesterday evening. Today I sent them the former linked records with the problem and the link to this thread as well. 
Thanks for the suggesstion regarding the cable!


----------



## MelonHead (May 4, 2018)

gLer said:


> The bad news is that this is a general flaw in all the R2R-11 units that I’m personally aware of. It’s limited to DSD playback like you say, and mainly noticeable in quieter passages of classical and jazz music. In fact, most of my classical DSDs are now unplayable on the R2R-11, and so I’ve set Audirvana to convert DSD to PCM on the fly. Still sounds fantastic, but of course if you want native DSD, too bad.
> 
> Also as far as I know there’s no fix for it. They’ve supposedly fixed the pops, but I haven’t yet heard any feedback on whether or not the firmware update addresses the DSD issue. In my many discussions with Kingwa - via my local agent - he claims the noise is there because as a NOS dac, it doesn’t and won’t filter any low level noise artefacts - even though he couldn’t explain why these were limited to DSD playback.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your useful reply!
Same experiences, same ideas and same unanswered questions. I totally agree with you gLer.
*I'm still looking for other owners who can test this problem in native DSD mode.*


----------



## FredA

gLer said:


> Wow, I can’t see that being offered as a fix for the R2R-11. I wonder if the R2R-1/2 have the same noise issues?



This is being blown a little out of proportion. I still have the gauge 30 ribbon cables in my dac and using them without problem. Similar cables are used in >10k dac. Header pins are made out of brass. Solid brass. This can't be that bad. 

The point with the r2r 7 is it does not sound really very well during the first 2 weeks. As for the r2r 11, i never tried dsd, so i can't comment.


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> This is being blown a little out of proportion. I still have the gauge 30 ribbon cables in my dac and using them without problem. Similar cables are used in >10k dac. Header pins are made out of brass. Solid brass. This can't be that bad.
> 
> The point with the r2r 7 is it does not sound really very well during the first 2 weeks. As for the r2r 11, i never tried dsd, so i can't comment.



You don’t use usb input though.


----------



## FredA

Whitigir said:


> You don’t use usb input though.


I tried it. It sounded fine, and still, the i2s inputs use ribbon cables. One difference: my dac does not have the usb isolator, so no brass pins.


----------



## Whitigir

FredA said:


> I tried it. It sounded fine, and still, the i2s inputs use ribbon cables. One difference: my dac does not have the usb isolator, so no brass pins.



Yeah, the problem are the Brass Pins.  I think the ribbons still affect it somewhat but not to the Brass Pins extends.  On the r2r7, just as long as Dithering or PLLEN helping to net in improvements, the sources are tainted somewhere.

Brass Pins on my lks004 never brought problems.  Until r2r7 told me that it does.  I upgraded it, and it turned out that it brought improvements.  I thought to myself that these DAC with sigma delta chips has the capability to DSP errors away.  Those 20k DAC has firmware to DSP errors away.  Kingwa design language are to stay as close to the input signals as possible.  Hence they hugely affect the DAC, but then, there are pros and cons in every approach.  If you fix your problems, Kingwa design language is what I prefer, stay true to the original without losing out details and all that by DSP


----------



## Whitigir

Also, you can go read about USB cables.  The 28Awg is minimum specification that is recommended for Charging cables.  Data cables are the least of 26-27awg.  For those audiophile cables, data wires are preferably around 24Awg.  But then again, people believe what they do.


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> This is being blown a little out of proportion. I still have the gauge 30 ribbon cables in my dac and using them without problem. Similar cables are used in >10k dac. Header pins are made out of brass. Solid brass. This can't be that bad.
> 
> The point with the r2r 7 is it does not sound really very well during the first 2 weeks. As for the r2r 11, i never tried dsd, so i can't comment.


The R2R-11 is currently unusable in native DSD mode with many DSDs. That’s the bottom line. Not sure if it uses brass pins or whatever else is being spoken about here, but unlike the R2R-7 and other higher end DACs, it only supports DSD via USB. If the Amanero module used by the R2R-11 is an issue and needs a hardware fix (which won’t happen) then as R2R-11 users we either have to live with it, or sell it and move on. 

All depends how important DSD is to you (and by what I gather, it’s not important to the majority of people - which is probably why it’s not a priority fix for Kingwa). If the noise issues affected all playback, there would have been a furor. As it is, this is one of the most unique, powerful and musical all-in-one dac/amps for under $1000, and as long as your library and listening habits are mainly in the PCM domain, you have no cause for concern.


----------



## Nickol (May 4, 2018)

gLer said:


> The R2R-11 is currently unusable in native DSD mode with many DSDs. That’s the bottom line. Not sure if it uses brass pins or whatever else is being spoken about here, but unlike the R2R-7 and other higher end DACs, it only supports DSD via USB. If the Amanero module used by the R2R-11 is an issue and needs a hardware fix (which won’t happen) then as R2R-11 users we either have to live with it, or sell it and move on.
> 
> All depends how important DSD is to you (and by what I gather, it’s not important to the majority of people - which is probably why it’s not a priority fix for Kingwa). If the noise issues affected all playback, there would have been a furor. As it is, this is one of the most unique, powerful and musical all-in-one dac/amps for under $1000, and as long as your library and listening habits are mainly in the PCM domain, you have no cause for concern.



I do not notice and do not hear any noise at all during playback DSD on R2R-11. I do not have anything that you write about.
I use Album Player. Try to use it too.
My settings:
http://prntscr.com/jdv15y
http://prntscr.com/jdv1ch
http://prntscr.com/jdv1ik
http://prntscr.com/jdv268


----------



## FredA (May 4, 2018)

gLer said:


> The R2R-11 is currently unusable in native DSD mode with many DSDs. That’s the bottom line. Not sure if it uses brass pins or whatever else is being spoken about here, but unlike the R2R-7 and other higher end DACs, it only supports DSD via USB. If the Amanero module used by the R2R-11 is an issue and needs a hardware fix (which won’t happen) then as R2R-11 users we either have to live with it, or sell it and move on.
> 
> All depends how important DSD is to you (and by what I gather, it’s not important to the majority of people - which is probably why it’s not a priority fix for Kingwa). If the noise issues affected all playback, there would have been a furor. As it is, this is one of the most unique, powerful and musical all-in-one dac/amps for under $1000, and as long as your library and listening habits are mainly in the PCM domain, you have no cause for concern.


Yes. That's right. And Kingwa might come back with a fix. Hopefully. As it is, i don't care about dsd. And from all i could gather, it's a problem only with the r2r 11. I love the r2r 11 in my office setup. It's a gem.

And no brass pins on the r2r 11. The brass pins Whitigir mentionned are in dacs including a usb isolator.


----------



## Whitigir

It could also be USB cables related.

Again Kingwa Design is that “poops in = Poops out”.  It stays true to the source, whatever you are feeding it.  So anything in your chain could be “tainting” your performances

1/ USB cables ?
2/ Old computer ?
3/ Playback Software ?

If your usb module do not have isolator, you are more likely to have Ribbon cables, and it shouldn’t be too crazily affected


----------



## Nickol

MelonHead said:


> Test is done on my Asus Zenbook using FB2000 and Jriver.
> Same digital noise, same pattern always with native DSD, or DoP playback. No problem with with PCM conversion, and with PCM based lossless and lossy music.
> 
> Even if I love the characteristics and capabilities of this DAC/AMP, until I receive a real solution_ -not workaround as this feature is definitely indicated in the Audio-GD website and advertised everywhere_-  from you or from the manufacturer, i have to assume that bitperfect DSD playback is problematic and faulty at least with my R2R-11.
> ...



Hi! Once again, I have wanted to say:
I do not notice and do not hear any noise at all during playback DSD on R2R-11. I do not have anything that you write about.
I use Album Player. Try to use it too.
My settings:
http://prntscr.com/jdv15y
http://prntscr.com/jdv1ch
http://prntscr.com/jdv1ik
http://prntscr.com/jdv268


----------



## gLer

Nickol said:


> I do not notice and do not hear any noise at all during playback DSD on R2R-11. I do not have anything that you write about.
> I use Album Player. Try to use it too.
> My settings:
> http://prntscr.com/jdv15y
> ...


I suspect AlbumPlayer - like many other software players that ‘support’ DSD playback (like Vox, for example) - convert the DSD or DoP stream to PCM before playback (and most wont even tell you they do this). Very few players (even JRiver needs to be told NOT to convert to PCM) actually play the native DSD stream. The R2R-11 has absolutely no issues with PCM playback, so when you listen to your DSD (now converted to PCM behind the scenes), it’ll sound great.


----------



## Nickol

gLer said:


> I suspect AlbumPlayer - like many other software players that ‘support’ DSD playback (like Vox, for example) - convert the DSD or DoP stream to PCM before playback (and most wont even tell you they do this). Very few players (even JRiver needs to be told NOT to convert to PCM) actually play the native DSD stream. The R2R-11 has absolutely no issues with PCM playback, so when you listen to your DSD (now converted to PCM behind the scenes), it’ll sound great.


I don't think so. 
Communicate with the developer of the player, Igor is an honest and open person. DSD stream is maintained in full, without any oversimplification. Album Player actually play the native DSD stream.
I have showed you everything in the settings.
It's up to you to criticize everything, to doubt everything, or to take and test, try and explore everything, figure it out.
It's your choice. Good luck!


----------



## MelonHead (May 5, 2018)

Nickol said:


> I do not notice and do not hear any noise at all during playback DSD on R2R-11. I do not have anything that you write about.
> I use Album Player. Try to use it too.
> My settings:
> http://prntscr.com/jdv15y
> ...


Hi Nickol and many thanks for your suggestions.
I've downloaded the last x64 version of album player from here and made the necessary adjustments as they were stated in your screenshots.
To be honest, I'm not sure whether it is native DSD or PCM conversion. Here are the reasons why:

When I play the track I got 44kHz 24 bit according to the info bar of the album player. I would be happy if you were able to check that as well.
According to my very subjective perception it sounds similar to the PCM converted version of FB2000. Native DSD has a little bit fuller sound with more body and life. That"s why I prefer it over PCM whenever it's possible -assuming, I don't get that weird and annoying artificial noise...-.
In Foobar 2000 there are native DSD outputs which aren't available in Album Player.



This is a tiny but agile player anyway. I'll come back and refer if there is something more.

Ahh, sorry, as I've opened the thread and the reply box early in the morning, but finished with the throughout evaluation beside my other tasks a few minutes ago, I haven't recognized Glier's and your response. I tend to agree, that this player converts to PCM as MusicBee does for example.


----------



## Nickol

You write that "When I play the track I got 44kHz 24 bit according to the info bar of the album player. I would be happy if you were able to check that as well."
But I see that (I have already showed that) - that's everytihng is right and ok:
http://prntscr.com/je0bp7
https://prnt.sc/jdv268
Therefore, look for the problem in your own: in your settings, drivers, check again, or the problem is with the content that you are listening to. DSD should not in any case be displayed in the player as 44kHz 24 be, if you are really listening to the DSD record.
(and should be displayed like this: http://prntscr.com/je0bp7 )


----------



## Nickol

[QUOTE = "MelonHead, post: 14220024, участник: 491320"] 
Ahh, sorry, as I've opened the thread and the reply box early in the morning, but finished with the throughout evaluation beside my other tasks a few minutes ago, I haven't recognized Glier's and your response. I tend to agree, that this player converts to PCM as MusicBee does for example. [/ QUOTE]
I will answer the same:
Communicate with the developer of the player, Igor is an honest and open person. DSD stream is maintained in full, without any oversimplification. Album Player actually play the native DSD stream.
I have showed you everything in the settings.
It's up to you to criticize everything, to doubt everything, or to take and test, try and explore everything, figure it out.
It's your choice.


----------



## MelonHead (May 5, 2018)

Nickol said:


> You write that "When I play the track I got 44kHz 24 bit according to the info bar of the album player. I would be happy if you were able to check that as well."
> But I see that (I have already showed that) - that's everytihng is right and ok:
> http://prntscr.com/je0bp7
> https://prnt.sc/jdv268
> ...


OK, thanks, I'll check it again. I would be very happy if you can test Foobar2000. Here is a link to my configured version. You don't have to install it.
FB2000

It would be awsome if you were able share your configured Album player as well so I can eliminate any misconfiguration.


----------



## gLer

Nickol said:


> [QUOTE = "MelonHead, post: 14220024, участник: 491320"]
> Ahh, sorry, as I've opened the thread and the reply box early in the morning, but finished with the throughout evaluation beside my other tasks a few minutes ago, I haven't recognized Glier's and your response. I tend to agree, that this player converts to PCM as MusicBee does for example. [/ QUOTE]
> I will answer the same:
> Communicate with the developer of the player, Igor is an honest and open person. DSD stream is maintained in full, without any oversimplification. Album Player actually play the native DSD stream.
> ...


Can you tell us which DSD albums/files you’re using to test? Download Amber Rubarth’s ‘Sessions from the 17th Ward’ in DSD128 and listen to the first track ‘Hold On’. If you don’t hear the very obvious noise artifacts then either your player is converting to PCM or you have a ‘unicorn’ R2R-11 without the DSD noise issue.


----------



## Nickol

I can share my mindset Album Player (you know, it's portable)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ip_mavjYRi05iIkc3oE-Xo4NfXB0ODOH
May be, it will suit you. You can try.


----------



## Nickol (May 5, 2018)

gLer said:


> Can you tell us which DSD albums/files you’re using to test? Download Amber Rubarth’s ‘Sessions from the 17th Ward’ in DSD128 and listen to the first track ‘Hold On’. If you don’t hear the very obvious noise artifacts then either your player is converting to PCM or you have a ‘unicorn’ R2R-11 without the DSD noise issue.


I use and listen to: Nick Parrot (don't you look my screenshots on the links? that's pity), Barbara Carroll Trio - Sentimental Mood (2006) [SACD] (2017 Venus), Diana Krall - Wallflower (2015) [SACD], Polly Gibbons - Is It Me 2017, Queen - A Kind Of Magic (1986) and some others. That's enough?
I don't have Amber Rubarth’s ‘Sessions from the 17th Ward’ in DSD128.


----------



## MelonHead (May 5, 2018)

Nickol said:


> I can share my mindset Album Player (you know, it's portable)
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ip_mavjYRi05iIkc3oE-Xo4NfXB0ODOH
> May be, it will suit you. You can try.


Thanks Nickol for the link!
I have some other important tasks but will come back later with the results.


----------



## MelonHead

MelonHead said:


> Thanks Nickol for the link!
> I have some other important tasks but will come back later with the results.



Okay, back again!

*Good part:*
Your version of Album Player was well configured, it plays DSD natively. I just had to change the language to English. 

*Bad part:*
Unfortunately the same problem happens with every single High Dynamic Range DSD recording during the quietest parts. Annoying artificial noise which disappears as soon as the sound level gets somewhat louder. Same thing happens under Foobar2000 and Jriver.

If you have some free time and you don't mind, for evaluation purposes I'll send a PM with links to some DSD files where the problem noticeably appears.


----------



## Nickol (May 5, 2018)

MelonHead said:


> Okay, back again!
> 
> *Good part:*
> Your version of Album Player was well configured, it plays DSD natively. I just had to change the language to English.
> ...



I am pleased to. You have to be able to adjust, but I can do it))
By the way,
Here are the proofs and the answer of the developer of the player:
http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=8905&st=13025

And I still do not hear notice and do not hear any noise at all during playback DSD on R2R-11.
...apparently, I have got the lucky R2R-11 )))
...or you have something wrong with the drivers, the system, the method of connection, it can be a cable, etc.


----------



## Nickol

You write, that "*Good part:*
Your version of Album Player was well configured, it plays DSD natively. I just had to change the language to English."
 - and indeed it is. Use on health.))

And, user *gLer*, I would not write more nonsense in your place, like:
"I suspect AlbumPlayer - like many other software players that ‘support’ DSD playback (like Vox, for example) - convert the DSD or DoP stream to PCM before playback (and most wont even tell you they do this)"


----------



## Nickol

...just try to use Album Player ))
this is an excellent player for wav, pcm and dsd


----------



## gLer

Nickol said:


> And, user *gLer*, I would not write more nonsense in your place, like:
> "I suspect AlbumPlayer - like many other software players that ‘support’ DSD playback (like Vox, for example) - convert the DSD or DoP stream to PCM before playback (and most wont even tell you they do this)"


I'm glad it was discovered that AlbumPlayer indeed plays DSDs natively. If you actually read what I wrote, I didn't say that it couldn't - just that I suspected it might not, because many others 'claim' to support native DSD but don't. Happy to be proven wrong in this instance, but as @MelonHead correctly points out, it doesn't solve the problem, only illustrates it.

I think you'll find you're in the minority of people who don't hear noticeable noise in quieter parts of high DR DSD recordings with the R2R-11. Maybe you should take a moment to think before insulting people on this forum who are only looking to help others. Read more, write less, as the saying goes


----------



## monkeyfist_78

When I'm using it the R2R on "Fixed" mode, should the gain be "Low" or "High"?


----------



## gLer

monkeyfist_78 said:


> When I'm using it the R2R on "Fixed" mode, should the gain be "Low" or "High"?


Makes no difference when you're in fixed mode. When you're in variable mode then low gain on max volume is the same as fixed on max volume, and high gain is about the same as 12PM volume and up to 5VRMS (I believe) on full volume.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Well, on my unit it makes a differences... About 10 dB Sverige on one track.


----------



## spacequeen7 (May 5, 2018)

This was mentioned earlier ,you shouldn't have any problem with all DSD64 /R2R11
-in F2K you need to choose DSD:ASIO:foo_dsd_asio (32bit is fine too)
-SACD you choose DSD

any file larger then DSD64 will cause issues and require PC restart  /ASIO:foo_dsd_asio/SACD (DSD+PCM) ,I think it's Amanero/OS related

Edit ; I saved this screeens from Audio gd website (can't find the link now  )










Edit 2: (DSD+PCM) is all the bells and whistles and it plays same format as the recording (confirmed on my D50 )


----------



## gLer

monkeyfist_78 said:


> Well, on my unit it makes a differences... About 10 dB Sverige on one track.


Did you open the hood and change the jumper to enable variable/fixed mode? The R2R-11 is configured so that both variable and fixed output is actually variable only. You have to enable ‘fixed’ mode by physically changing a jumper setting on the PC board. Go to the AGD website and read the user guide for instructions on how to do this.

Once that’s done you can flick the switch to ‘fixed’ and it will actually be fixed, not variable. Apparently they do this to prevent users from ‘accidentally’ leaving it on fixed mode with high powered speakers.


----------



## Whitigir (May 5, 2018)

Noises are hard to observe unless you have a very revealing systems and know your music well, also know yourself and with confidence.  The majority of time and folk won’t be able to notice it, and that is fine.  Sometimes to be able to hear and observe things are more like a curse than a blessing (expensive one).


----------



## spacequeen7 (May 5, 2018)

Whitigir said:


> Noises are hard to observe unless you have a very revealing systems and know your music well, also know yourself and with confidence.  The majority of time and folk won’t be able to notice it, and that is fine.  Sometimes to be able to hear and observe things are more like a curse than a blessing (expensive one).


I'm pretty sure he mention hearing noises in the same part of the track in exact same time stamp on more then one player ,sounds like crappy recording to me
I have few high quality DSD samples and have 0 noises DSD64 or DSD256
Edit;yes R2R11 can be very revealing


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Did it. So now I have HP/Variable/Fixed. But I can still use the High and Low Burtbu on Fixed and it will be more or less "boost".


----------



## monkeyfist_78

gLer said:


> Did you open the hood and change the jumper to enable variable/fixed mode? The R2R-11 is configured so that both variable and fixed output is actually variable only. You have to enable ‘fixed’ mode by physically changing a jumper setting on the PC board. Go to the AGD website and read the user guide for instructions on how to do this.
> 
> Once that’s done you can flick the switch to ‘fixed’ and it will actually be fixed, not variable. Apparently they do this to prevent users from ‘accidentally’ leaving it on fixed mode with high powered speakers.



That was the first thing i did. Now I have HP/Variable/Fixed. But I can still use the High and Low button on Fixed and it will be more or less "boost".


----------



## Anaz (May 5, 2018)

monkeyfist_78 said:


> That was the first thing i did. Now I have HP/Variable/Fixed. But I can still use the High and Low button on Fixed and it will be more or less "boost".


I can confirm this. High/Low gain changes the gain on fixed output with the jumper set to allow fixed output.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Anaz said:


> I can confirm this. High/Low gain changes the gain on fixed output with the jumper set to allow fixed output.



So whats it for?


----------



## Anaz

monkeyfist_78 said:


> So whats it for?


From the specs on the Audio-gd website:
Fixed output: 2.5V RMS (High gain)
Fixed output: 1V RMS (Low gain)​...I guess it depends on how much gain you want to send to your amplifier (or if you have pro gear which expects the higher voltage). e.g. I'm outputting from the R2R to an MCTH and use low gain/1V RMS output so that I have more travel on the MCTH's volume pot.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Anaz said:


> From the specs on the Audio-gd website:
> Fixed output: 2.5V RMS (High gain)
> Fixed output: 1V RMS (Low gain)​...I guess it depends on how much gain you want to send to your amplifier (or if you have pro gear which expects the higher voltage). e.g. I'm outputting from the R2R to an MCTH and use low gain/1V RMS output so that I have more travel on the MCTH's volume pot.



Super!

I Guess My vintage Sansuis likes 1V better.


----------



## MelonHead (May 7, 2018)

Hello fellow R2R-11 owners and wannabe owners!
A few of us have been participating in an open-minded private thread for a few days regarding the supposed native DSD flaw of our bellowed DAC/AMP.
There is no final decision, but we got closer to a common standpoint.
If anyone is interested in the solution-searching or want to know the current state of the situation, please let me know about it via a PM and I send the invitation to this private thread.


----------



## Nickol

Where is Kingwa? He's a man? Is he uncomfortable to admit his shortcomings?
I'll bring this story to all European and Russian forums and stores, I have connections so that sales of its under-developed products will be reduced.


----------



## MelonHead

Let's wait a little Nickol. I've sent the invitation to them, but as I see Audio-gd hasn't been logged in since January.
I invited Magna Hifi via e-mail as I didn't find a related account to them. I hope, they will join to the thread.


----------



## benirohit458

Hey there guys
Just wanted to know a little more about this popping issue on the R2R-11
Want to pair it with my awaited HD6XXs
Has anyone been able to get rid of the popping problem?
Well if the problem is persistent I can just go with the NFB-11
As either will sound great coming from my present onboard audio


----------



## Monsterzero

benirohit458 said:


> Has anyone been able to get rid of the popping problem?



Yes. When I added the Schiit Eitr to my chain the pop went away.


----------



## elira

benirohit458 said:


> Hey there guys
> Just wanted to know a little more about this popping issue on the R2R-11
> Want to pair it with my awaited HD6XXs
> Has anyone been able to get rid of the popping problem?
> ...


You can update the firmware and it is supposed to have less popping, but if you are buying it new then it has the latest firmware.


----------



## benirohit458

Monsterzero said:


> Yes. When I added the Schiit Eitr to my chain the pop went away.


Ah well I'm not really in a position to spend on additional hardware. However some say the popping doesn't exist with optical. Is it so?
And some also say the the popping also exists with the NFB-11
Don't know what's true


----------



## benirohit458

elira said:


> You can update the firmware and it is supposed to have less popping, but if you are buying it new then it has the latest firmware.


Well thanks for that.... However any amount of popping will be an annoyance for me. Is there any way to get rid of it completely? Some say using optical does it. Don't really know
But how often do you experience this popping anyway? After every song? That will be unbearable


----------



## Monsterzero (May 7, 2018)

That could very well be the case as the Eitr allows you to use the coax input on the R2R-11. I believe I read earlier in this thread that there is a software patch available that eliminates(you might want to read back a few weeks to confirm) the pop,which IMHO was greatly exaggerated by early adopters to begin with.

The pop didnt bother me pre-Eitr in the least,and havent thought about it in many months.



> Don't really know
> But how often do you experience this popping anyway? After every song?



When the music youre listening to changes bitrate. If all your files are MP3 then most likely you will never hear a pop. If you have a mix of lossless and MP3 then thats when the pop will happen,once at the beginning of the song.

Honestly,its no big deal for me, and im pretty uptight about tech working correctly.


----------



## elira

benirohit458 said:


> Well thanks for that.... However any amount of popping will be an annoyance for me. Is there any way to get rid of it completely? Some say using optical does it. Don't really know
> But how often do you experience this popping anyway? After every song? That will be unbearable


I'm using it as a DAC, I've a WA-6SE connected via RCA, and it's connected to a Linux computer via USB. As I've this at work I can only stream music (via Pandora or Tidal) which goes through Chrome and pulse audio, and I've zero pops with the old firmware. Of course windows via WASAPI or ASIO is something completely different and I cannot comment about that.


----------



## gLer

Monsterzero said:


> Yes. When I added the Schiit Eitr to my chain the pop went away.


And so did your DSD capability. If I only wanted a PCM dac that would be an option.


----------



## Monsterzero

gLer said:


> And so did your DSD capability. If I only wanted a PCM dac that would be an option.



Dont own a single DSD file,so frankly I dont care. 

I have had amp/DAC combos in my chain that were 4 times the cost of the R2R-11. I have had amp/DACs in my system that were nearly ten times the cost. Each one has had good points and bad. Some did all sorts of DSD and MQA but sounded like crap.

I think for under 400.00 usd finding an amp/DAC that decodes all the latest and greatest file types,sounds phenomenal, has zero issues,and makes you coffee in the morning is going to be hard to find.

I am quite happy with the R2R-11. For the price, its a steal,DSD or not.


----------



## gLer

Monsterzero said:


> Dont own a single DSD file,so frankly I dont care.
> 
> I have had amp/DAC combos in my chain that were 4 times the cost of the R2R-11. I have had amp/DACs in my system that were nearly ten times the cost. Each one has had good points and bad. Some did all sorts of DSD and MQA but sounded like crap.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. It’s the best sounding dac/amp I’ve heard under $1000. If I ever upgrade it would only be to add more power and features, like balanced. Considering hooking it up to an AGD NFB-1 to add the power and balanced mode, or go with a different solution altogether like a Questyle CMA-400i. Either way that would be endgame for me. I don’t believe in spending over the odds for sources and amps, TOTL headphones are stupidly expensive already and that’s still where you get the biggest returns in terms of SQ.


----------



## Monsterzero

gLer said:


> or go with a different solution altogether like a Questyle CMA-400i.



Have you actually heard the 400i,and like it? I had the 600i(400's big brother) and thought it was absolutely awful. So much glare. Granted it had a stage a mile wide,and nearly as deep,but I was so relieved that I had my R2R-11 to fall back on.


----------



## gLer

Monsterzero said:


> Have you actually heard the 400i,and like it? I had the 600i(400's big brother) and thought it was absolutely awful. So much glare. Granted it had a stage a mile wide,and nearly as deep,but I was so relieved that I had my R2R-11 to fall back on.


Hmm, no I haven’t, only going by reviews. I did read that the 600i was noticeably brighter than the 400i, so there’s that. But I haven’t actually verified that myself or heard either one. It would definitely be a risk to ‘trade up’ to the 400i without hearing it first, which is why I’m thinking more along the lines of adding an NFB-1 and essentially having an AGD R2R-28  I think the balanced power of the NFB-1 will add refinement and power to my collection of headphones. A friend has an NFB-1 that I’ll be trying out in due course to check out this theory. 

If anybody here has heard the CMA-400i, comparisons to the R2R-11 would be most welcome.


----------



## J Mirra

I use S/PDIF I get a click when the first audio starts whether it is from J River or a browser playing  YouTube video.

Then if I swap from format to format there is a really quiet tick that I do not notice unless i listen for it when changing formats.

I bought knowing about the click and would rather have this quality I have for so little money in relation to other products that apparently do not sound as good.

The R2R 11 has blew me away, I just love the sound.


----------



## Monsterzero

gLer said:


> Hmm, no I haven’t, only going by reviews. I did read that the 600i was noticeably brighter than the 400i, so there’s that. But I haven’t actually verified that myself or heard either one. It would definitely be a risk to ‘trade up’ to the 400i without hearing it first, which is why I’m thinking more along the lines of adding an NFB-1 and essentially having an AGD R2R-28  I think the balanced power of the NFB-1 will add refinement and power to my collection of headphones. A friend has an NFB-1 that I’ll be trying out in due course to check out this theory.
> 
> If anybody here has heard the CMA-400i, comparisons to the R2R-11 would be most welcome.



I saw your ad ,which I thought said you were offering to swap your Atticus for a 400i...I wouldnt in a million years swap an Atticus for the 600i,let alone the 400.
I have not heard the 400,but theyre both d/s DACs,which are much brighter by nature than the R2R design of the R2R-11...If brighter is your goal then you will be happy,but I absolutely did not like the 600i.


----------



## gLer

Monsterzero said:


> I saw your ad ,which I thought said you were offering to swap your Atticus for a 400i...I wouldnt in a million years swap an Atticus for the 600i,let alone the 400.
> I have not heard the 400,but theyre both d/s DACs,which are much brighter by nature than the R2R design of the R2R-11...If brighter is your goal then you will be happy,but I absolutely did not like the 600i.


Yeah I think I had a bit of a brain melt there. Not giving up my Atticus for anything. Still curious to hear the 400i, which is meant to be a bit fuller and darker than the 600i. But I’m just so happy with the R2R sound I’m very wary of going back to DS. What I’m really after is a bit more flexibility and power, as all my headphones can be used balanced. Do you reckon adding an NFB-1 amp in concert with the R2R-11 would surpass the capabilities of the CMA-600i?


----------



## Monsterzero

gLer said:


> Yeah I think I had a bit of a brain melt there. Not giving up my Atticus for anything. Still curious to hear the 400i, which is meant to be a bit fuller and darker than the 600i. But I’m just so happy with the R2R sound I’m very wary of going back to DS. What I’m really after is a bit more flexibility and power, as all my headphones can be used balanced. Do you reckon adding an NFB-1 amp in concert with the R2R-11 would surpass the capabilities of the CMA-600i?



I think your best bet would be to get into a good OTL amp. I have read some of your comments praising the R2R-11+ Atticus pairing in the A&E thread. To be perfectly honest with you,of my three amping options for the Atticus the R2R-11 is the least impressive,by far. I get much more slam and headroom from any of my vintage receivers. When running the Atticus from my La Figaro 339 the Atticus sweetens up considerably,adding good 3D staging too,with a slight reduction in bass incisiveness. For all three amps I use, the R2R-11 is the source DAC. I think eventually I will upgrade my DAC,but I have yet to find one that performs so much better than the R2R-11 to warrant the cost.
I hope to be bringing in some Mytek and Holo Spring for reviews/trials soon. Just finished reviewing the ExoGal Comet and while it was a clear winner over the 11,Im not sure it was $3000.00 better. 

We should probably take any further talk to PM so we dont derail this thread.


----------



## gLer

Monsterzero said:


> We should probably take any further talk to PM so we dont derail this thread.


Agreed and thanks for the input!


----------



## benirohit458

J Mirra said:


> I use S/PDIF I get a click when the first audio starts whether it is from J River or a browser playing  YouTube video.
> 
> Then if I swap from format to format there is a really quiet tick that I do not notice unless i listen for it when changing formats.
> 
> ...


I wrote to the Audio GD people and they said that as of 28th march theyve come up with a firmware update and as a result have got rid of the pop issues.


----------



## J Mirra

I was just following up on the click posts to what I find with coax, I know of the USB fix but thanks anyhow.


----------



## I g o r

benirohit458 said:


> I wrote to the Audio GD people and they said that as of 28th march theyve come up with a firmware update and as a result have got rid of the pop issues.



Yes, it’s on their main page on the website. I don’t know why more people haven’t seen that...
For users who bought before March 28 and want to upgrade firmware, contact Audio-gd for instructions.


----------



## spacequeen7

Was playing with up-sampling via JRiver today (Spotify) ,switching from 192kHz to 352kHz made noticeable difference ,  R2R11 sounds little brighter, detailed  now  .


----------



## 4mayday

Nickol said:


> Where is Kingwa? He's a man? Is he uncomfortable to admit his shortcomings?


Here is the answer about artifical noise on DSD I received from Kingwa (I've made few grammatical corrections): 
'If the noise you can hear only with quieter music, it is normal, because it is a NOS DAC, it means no digital filter built in. So it will show some digital noise. If the digital filter built in, it sounds flavor and quality will change.'


----------



## gLer

I g o r said:


> Yes, it’s on their main page on the website. I don’t know why more people haven’t seen that...
> For users who bought before March 28 and want to upgrade firmware, contact Audio-gd for instructions.


Sorry but that's BS. I've had that response before. The DSD noise is NOS related to noise you'd hear from lack of filtering/oversampling (otherwise it would be present in PCM recordings as well). I think AGD is terrified of admitting there's a real fault here because if they do, they'll have to pay for 1000+ returns and repairs.


----------



## JaMo (May 10, 2018)

Hi guys,

I have been out of these threads for awhile. After reading up... I think things are a bit blown out of proportions...

This is the R2R-11 discussed here. This small piece of gear has a stunning performance on PCM.

Kingwa has also, put in a DSD-capability. He didn't have to. USD350 is still a very good price for the PCM-performance.

The rather economic or "simple" design has both strengths as well as shortcomings. Take it for what it is.

My listening to it still stunnes me every time also on DSD-material. If You have severe problems with Your shortcomings of the R2R-11.... pass them on. Or maybe ask Kingwa for a DSD-disabeling fw to have the annoyance/disturbance solved for good.

There are also other gears out there..

/Jan


----------



## joostdh

gLer said:


> I think AGD is terrified of admitting there's a real fault here because if they do, they'll have to pay for 1000+ returns and repairs.


It is a very unfortunate fault but honestly maybe the R2R-11 just isn’t perfect despite how everyone would like it to be. If you feel cheated because your expectations weren’t met then you probably should try to return it but it is fantastical to think a small company like Audio-GD could or would recall every sold item and fix them — if that is even possible with this design — that would financially crush the company.

“We” who enjoy “this hobby” often strive for perfection and we all hope it is out there. It isn’t, that’s what drives our endless quest and plunders our wallets.


----------



## FredA

JaMo said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I have been out of these threads for awhile. After reading up... I think things are a bit blown out of proportions...
> 
> ...


+1. We are not talking about a house with flawed foundations. We are talking about a dac/amp that is so reveiling it can expose the flaws of oversampling in Foobar. Upsampling to 96k in ultra mode, Foobar muffles some subtle drum play on one of my records. With the r2r 11, if you pay attention, you will hear this easily.


----------



## MelonHead

The aforementioned features of R2R-11 are advertised in the manufacturer's website like the followings:

Unique noise reject technology remove the artifacts
DSD , DXD support from USB 
Unique noise process technology will remove any digital artifact
True NOS design. NOS is less sensitive to jitter and offering neutral sound. To avoid the digital artifacts, a uniquely designed noise rejection processing technology is applied.
Native DSD support. no switch applied between the DSD and PCM decoder outputs for avoid effect on sound quality but had not obvious switch pop sound appear.
I love my unit and I support Audio-gd, but if the manufacturer's websites states or even advertises a feature, I'd expect, it works according to it.  
It's not a solution if we overlook the problems and we accept, that relatively cheap products might consist flaws.


----------



## FredA

Another point: dsd has such a tiny market share that i doubt it will ever be widely adopted because it does not bring much advantages, if any at all over pcm with a proper dac.


----------



## FredA

MelonHead said:


> The aforementioned features of R2R-11 are advertised in the manufacturer's website like the followings:
> 
> Unique noise reject technology remove the artifacts
> DSD , DXD support from USB
> ...


It works with a minor flaw, some artifacts can be heard. This should be added to the description if your assertion is right. Just sell the damn thing and buy something else.


----------



## Nickol

MelonHead said:


> The aforementioned features of R2R-11 are advertised in the manufacturer's website like the followings:
> 
> Unique noise reject technology remove the artifacts
> DSD , DXD support from USB
> ...


I fully support you and agree with you.
I think that any normal person also thinks and agrees with this.


----------



## FredA

Nickol said:


> I fully support you and agree with you.
> I think that any normal person also thinks and agrees with this.


I agree too. But everything has to be put in perspective. The dac/amp sounds like 3-4 times its price playing pcm. The cie that builds it is small and artisanal. Audio-gd made a small and honest mistake, assuming it did. Is it worth all that fuss? I bought 8 audio-gd gears so far and will buy more in the future, because i get my money worth or more.

 This combo could have been flawless but sound like its price tag suggest. What would you prefer?


----------



## Nickol (May 10, 2018)

FredA said:


> I agree too. But everything has to be put in perspective. The dac/amp sounds like 3-4 times its price playing pcm. The cie that builds it is small and artisanal. Audio-gd made a small and honest mistake, assuming it did. Is it worth all that fuss? I bought 8 audio-gd gears so far and will buy more in the future, because i get my money worth or more.
> 
> This combo could have been flawless but sound like its price tag suggest. What would you prefer?



I prefer R2R-11 in a completely working condition, such as the manufacturer claims when it is sold.


----------



## MelonHead

FredA said:


> It works with a minor flaw, some artifacts can be heard. This should be added to the description if your assertion is right. Just sell the damn thing and buy something else.


Please, don't be upset.
What I miss is an official statement from the manufacturer regarding the flaw, and still hope, there is a cheap workaround, firmware upgrade -even if it costs a few bucks from my side- which can solve the problem.
They have a broad product range from cheaper 350usd line to more expensive 3000usd units which belong to the same company and trade mark. As I see Audio-gd would like to stand out from the dozens of "jonghua products from alibaba". Beside the quality products it means -at least for me-, they have to take their customers seriously and take care of their remarks.


----------



## ProLoL

Using the R2R 11 as a dac, does anyone know why I can control my volume via Fixed just like I can via variable? 
I want to use fixed output without being able to control the volume from the R2R 11.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> Using the R2R 11 as a dac, does anyone know why I can control my volume via Fixed just like I can via variable?
> I want to use fixed output without being able to control the volume from the R2R 11.


Yes, you need to open it up and change a jumper setting inside. Read the ‘use manual’ on the Audio-GD website for instructions on how to do this.


----------



## ProLoL

By the way, I've tried supra usb cable on the R2R 11, it opened up the upper mids and everything went more clear and open but I do recommend using the stock usb provided, more euphonic and enjoyable.


----------



## JKDJedi

All I know is that my 11.28 is giving me ZERO problems and this thing sounds even better than when I first got it...it has surpassed my expectations.


----------



## Nickol (May 14, 2018)

... I again, unfortunately, hear these sounds (extraneous noise, similar to radio interference, very quiet, squirming, but audible) on my R2R-11 on my recently acquired superb DSD album
http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/132745/Holly_Cole-Holly-DSD_Double_Rate_56MHz128fs_Download

The noise is not hard to detect when playing quieter passages, like at the beginning or end of songs, or in classical, jazz or soft acoustic music. Listen through some of your albums and you’ll probably find some the same noise.
It is a fact, unfortunately


----------



## ProLoL

Nickol said:


> ... I again, unfortunately, hear these sounds (extraneous noise, similar to radio interference, very quiet, squirming, but audible) on my R2R-11 on my recently acquired superb DSD album
> http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/132745/Holly_Cole-Holly-DSD_Double_Rate_56MHz128fs_Download
> 
> The noise is not hard to detect when playing quieter passages, like at the beginning or end of songs, or in classical, jazz or soft acoustic music. Listen through some of your albums and you’ll probably find some the same noise.
> It is a fact, unfortunately



I believe that's how the song was recorded.


----------



## Nickol

ProLoL said:


> I believe that's how the song was recorded.



for the $29.98 ???
this is bull


----------



## ProLoL

I hear the same thing you're talking about on the CMA600i and also on the R2R 11.


----------



## benirohit458 (May 14, 2018)

Guys could you please help me decide between the two?
Im going to pair it with my HD6XX and HD518
I listen to music as well a do FPS gaming
which one of the two will be more appropriate for me?
NFB11 or R2R11?
Is there a difference between sound stage and separation between the two?
What about resolution? Which one has better resolution?


----------



## ProLoL

For gaming I would say the NFB11.. I always go for delta sigma for gaming, R2R is fun sounding.


----------



## Nickol (May 14, 2018)

ProLoL said:


> I believe that's how the song was recorded.


I'm afraid that you are wrong. Take R2R-11, get DSD ( http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/132745/Holly_Cole-Holly-DSD_Double_Rate_56MHz128fs_Download ) and listen to music. I am sure that you will hear the same as me and many others, the same noise.
This problem has already been investigated. So do not write nonsense.


----------



## Nickol

ProLoL said:


> I hear the same thing you're talking about on the CMA600i and also on the R2R 11.



*Then two questions about this*:
  - Why, when converting records into PCM - that noise disappears and it is no longer audible.
?
  - Some users checked the DSD on other devices that supported the output Native DSD - and there was no that noise.
?


----------



## ProLoL

You're right, my CMA600i doesn't show these faults while the R2R 11 does. Either way, I never listen to DSD via the R2R 11 so it does not bother me cause I really like it's dac for PCM but hopefully they'll fix it for the other fellas.


----------



## FredA

Nickol said:


> *Then two questions about this*:
> - Why, when converting records into PCM - that noise disappears and it is no longer audible.
> ?
> - Some users checked the DSD on other devices that supported the output Native DSD - and there was no that noise.
> ?



Maybe converting to dsd256 could help, assuming the r2r 11 can play it back. Artefacts are a normal thing playing dsd64 without oversampling. Maybe they are audible with dsd128 as well, don't know. Any problem playing dsd256 files? The r2r 11 has limited processing power so...


----------



## benirohit458

Is the R2R 11 worth the extra 120 USD over the Schiit Stack (Magni 3 + Modi 2) for a casual listener and gamer?


----------



## iamjaymo

benirohit458 said:


> Is the R2R 11 worth the extra 120 USD over the Schiit Stack (Magni 3 + Modi 2) for a casual listener and gamer?



I of course would recommend the R2R...may make you become a "serious" listener rather than a "casual" one.  Honestly, I have had the Schiit Stack at one time and though I feel the R2R is better in terms of "musicality", the Stack is a great value.  The R2R adds just a little bit _more_ in terms of sound quality, power and versatility should you get more into this hobby IMO.  Only you can be the judge it that is worth it to you or not.  I'm not a gamer so I can't comment on that.


----------



## JKDJedi

benirohit458 said:


> Is the R2R 11 worth the extra 120 USD over the Schiit Stack (Magni 3 + Modi 2) for a casual listener and gamer?


I would say get the 11.28, slightly more accurate than the R2R. And for the rest of you guys with the dsd problems, didn't someone mention here that using a product like the Schiit eitr could get rid off all that noise? http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr


----------



## 4mayday

FredA said:


> Maybe converting to dsd256 could help, assuming the r2r 11 can play it back. Artefacts are a normal thing playing dsd64 without oversampling. Maybe they are audible with dsd128 as well, don't know. Any problem playing dsd256 files? The r2r 11 has limited processing power so...



Artefacts are audible with DSD256 as well.


----------



## ProLoL

It will brighten the sound and ruin the euphonic magic for me, even changing the stock usb to supra usb makes everything clearer. I could just go Nfb 11 and call it a day.


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> I would say get the 11.28, slightly more accurate than the R2R. And for the rest of you guys with the dsd problems, didn't someone mention here that using a product like the Schiit eitr could get rid off all that noise? http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr


Schitt Eitr doesn’t support DSD and R2R-11 doesn’t support DSD over coax. So no go.


----------



## sennsay

conquerator2 said:


> I'll paste my own impressions here as well:
> 
> After selling my Theta and Mojo I was going into the R2R11 with a healthy dose of skepticism, owing to my mixed A-gd experience and low all-in-one price point.
> Boy, was I in for a very pleasant surprise! Over the past days, this unit has made its place in my collection as one of the highest regarded units that I've ever owned (perhaps even listened to). The tonality with the included amplifier is spot on, very similar to how I remember the Theta and DAC-19 sounding like, but better detailed, with wider soundstage and just as much vintage goodness. The amplifier has ample power to drive most headphones and with the ones I've tested so far it sounded excellent. It has all the essential inputs (similar to the Mojo) and sounded excellent through the speaker outs with my monitors. The USB implementation is rock solid and as someone who's had many issues with their previous VIA USB32, performs flawlessly and sounds great. The ALPS potentiometer feels super smooth, there's low and high gain and it can be made slightly warmer sounding by adjusting a set of jumpers inside (I did not find this necessary myself). It runs barely warm to the touch and blends fairly well on a modern desk with its fairly small footprint.
> ...


Nice to hear, I'm about to buy one! I love the build quality too.


----------



## VilMo

I would like again to bring again to everyone's attention a very simple way to improve the SQ for the USB input of R2R11 for free.
The Amanero USB interface does not need power over the USB line and works flawlessly without it (have been using this for months already).
The easiest and easily reversible way to disconnect the power is to but a small piece of tape on pin 1 that carries the 5+V (picture below).
It makes more sense to do it on the USB A connector - i.e. the side of your source (PC/laptop/streamer)





I will not go into speculation why this works and has such positive effect but it does raise the SQ considerably. 
It also decreases the loudness of the ïnfamous "pop" to negligible levels.
My guess is that this will work on all ADG DACs that have the Amanero Board.
You owe it to yourselves to give it a try!


----------



## benirohit458

I still see people talking about the popping issue on the R2R. However on contacting Kingwa at Audio GD,  he says that they've got rid of the pop issues since the March 28th firmware update.
So have they finally got rid of it or is it still there?
Any feedback from the new buyers or the ones who updated their firmware?


----------



## sennsay

VilMo said:


> I would like again to bring again to everyone's attention a very simple way to improve the SQ for the USB input of R2R11 for free.
> The Amanero USB interface does not need power over the USB line and works flawlessly without it (have been using this for months already).
> The easiest and easily reversible way to disconnect the power is to but a small piece of tape on pin 1 that carries the 5+V (picture below).
> It makes more sense to do it on the USB A connector - i.e. the side of your source (PC/laptop/streamer)
> ...


Great, I _knew_ I'd seen something about the USB on ag-d gear somewhere and couldn't remember where I'd seen it! How/why does this work, I wonder? "The Amanero Combo 384 have not power supply from computer for less disturb" says king-wa. I guess he agrees


----------



## VilMo (May 18, 2018)

VilMo said:


> I would like again to bring again to everyone's attention a very simple way to improve the SQ for the USB input of R2R11 for free.
> The Amanero USB interface does not need power over the USB line and works flawlessly without it (have been using this for months already).
> The easiest and easily reversible way to disconnect the power is to but a small piece of tape on pin 1 that carries the 5+V (picture below).
> It makes more sense to do it on the USB A connector - i.e. the side of your source (PC/laptop/streamer)
> ...



Just to add to the context, after getting the R2R11 I sold my Marantz HD DAC1, Chord Mojo, iFi nano iUSB3.0, Allo DigiOne player and my Singxer F1 is up for sale still.
Yesterday I removed the iFi iDefender from the chain and find the straight connection laptop->Supra USB with pin # 1 covered->R2R11 even better than with the iDefender (improved dynamics on both sides).
I am waiting for an iFi AC iPurifier next week and will report the effect.
I am loving the R2R11 and it is amazing!


----------



## sennsay

VilMo said:


> Just to add to the context, after getting the R2R11 I sold my Marantz HD DAC1, Chord Mojo, iFi nano iUSB3.0, Allo DigiOne player and my Singxer F1 is up for sale still.
> Yesterday I removed the iFi iDefender from the chain and find the straight connection laptop->Supra USB with pin # 1 covered->R2R11 even better than with the iDefender (improved dynamics on both sides).
> I am waiting for an iFi AC iPurifier next week and will report the effect.
> I am loving the R2R11 and it is amazing!


Wow, that's pretty epic. I can dig it though, when I received my Questyle QP1R, it so out-performed my $3500NZ TRI valve output CD player (which I loved, incidentally!) both as a source and as a portable player (it's a fantastic source!) that the TRI went on the market almost straight away. Very much looking forward to buying my own R2R-11 very soon. Since you have HE500s there, and I've heard that planars go well with the R2R, do you reckon the HE400S will start to sing properly with it?


----------



## VilMo

I don't own the HE500 for some time now. People on this forum have reported great results with them. The short time I had with HE500 and R2R11 was very good! My personal preference though is dynamic drivers. The EMU-Teak are great with the R2R11.


----------



## ProLoL

Had CMA600i/QP1R/Chord mojo and I'm staying with the R2R 11.


----------



## VilMo

ProLoL said:


> Had CMA600i/QP1R/Chord mojo and I'm staying with the R2R 11.


Just looked at pictures of the internals of the CMA600i. It seems like quite professional and costs almost 4 times. Yet you like the R2R11 better. There is something special about the DA-8 R-2R modules in the R2R11!


----------



## ProLoL

The CMA600i is hands down better than R2R 11 in everything but something is magical with the R2R 11, using supra usb cables ruines the magic for me, I use the stock one.


----------



## sennsay

VilMo said:


> I don't own the HE500 for some time now. People on this forum have reported great results with them. The short time I had with HE500 and R2R11 was very good! My personal preference though is dynamic drivers. The EMU-Teak are great with the R2R11.


Righto, thanks. Strangely, my HE400S with Focus A pads sound their best straight out of the QP1R, every other amp I've used so far has been ok but disappointing, maybe the R2R will be the exception, although it's my fabulous HD540 Ref1s that are my favourites by far over everything else I have, including the HD6xx, which lag quite some way behind. I shall look forward to  playing around.


----------



## VilMo

ProLoL said:


> The CMA600i is hands down better than R2R 11 in everything but something is magical with the R2R 11, using supra usb cables ruines the magic for me, I use the stock one.


Will get the blue USB cable and try it tonight.


----------



## dlmorgan999

I'm a relative newbie to the hobby (just a few weeks in).  I recently bought some refurbished Audeze EL-8s, and yesterday I received my beyerdyamic DT 1990 PROs (WOW are they good!).  I also signed up for the Sennheiser HD 6XX Massdrop.

I'm currently using a JDS Labs The Element at work. Earlier this week I ordered an R2R-11 for home, and from what I've seen in this thread and other reviews, I'm really looking forward to it! The ordering process went smoothly, and communication from Kingwa was excellent.

At some point in the future I _may_ order an NFB-11 as well.  It would be fun to compare the two, and the jumpers for filter configuration would be fun to play with.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

*
In Audio-gd products, the Amanero Combo 384 have not power supply from computer for the less disturb .*


----------



## gLer

VilMo said:


> I would like again to bring again to everyone's attention a very simple way to improve the SQ for the USB input of R2R11 for free.
> The Amanero USB interface does not need power over the USB line and works flawlessly without it (have been using this for months already).
> The easiest and easily reversible way to disconnect the power is to but a small piece of tape on pin 1 that carries the 5+V (picture below).
> It makes more sense to do it on the USB A connector - i.e. the side of your source (PC/laptop/streamer)
> ...



Tried this, didn't make any difference to the sound or 'pop' at all.



monkeyfist_78 said:


> *In Audio-gd products, the Amanero Combo 384 have not power supply from computer for the less disturb .*



That's probably why


----------



## RojasTKD (May 21, 2018)

dlmorgan999 said:


> I'm a relative newbie to the hobby (just a few weeks in).  I recently bought some refurbished Audeze EL-8s, and yesterday I received my beyerdyamic DT 1990 PROs (WOW are they good!).  I also signed up for the Sennheiser HD 6XX Massdrop.
> 
> I'm currently using a JDS Labs The Element at work. Earlier this week I ordered an R2R-11 for home, and from what I've seen in this thread and other reviews, I'm really looking forward to it! The ordering process went smoothly, and communication from Kingwa was excellent.
> 
> At some point in the future I _may_ order an NFB-11 as well.  It would be fun to compare the two, and the jumpers for filter configuration would be fun to play with.



Funny I also got a Referbished EL-8 Titanium and have already boxed it up to return. I feel it lack bass and any kind of dynamism and excitement. It's just too flat sounding for me. If I connect it to my desktop DAC/AMP and crank the power it does come alive a bit, but it a bit too loud and vocals/highs can become harsh. It just seems to require too much power for something that is suppose to be portable. Even with the Cipher cable I can't get the volume I want or sound I'd expect.

UPDATE: Still deciding, but might keep these as my LG V30 does a decent job driving the EL-8 Ti when tricked into high impedance mode at or near max volume. At that level it bring out just enough bass and life to possibly keep these.

On the other hand also got the LCD-2C and it very good with excellent bass and very dynamic.

I hear good things about the DT1990, it something I may eventually look to get.


----------



## tskeng

Hello,

A little off-topic but do you know there's limited run of NFB-11.38?






Difference is the Sabre32 DA chip ES9038 chip, instead of Sabre32 DA chip ES9028 in the NFB-11.28.


----------



## sennsay

tskeng said:


> Hello,
> 
> A little off-topic but do you know there's limited run of NFB-11.38?
> 
> ...


I do, thank you and ultimately decided I prefer the more organic nature of the ladder DAC, just as I do with the Mimby. It's going to run into a set of studio monitors in my lounge, to replace a much larger set of speakers ... a bit of reorganising  After reading one of the reviews here somewhere, where the listener placed it into his downstairs system and it outperformed a much more expensive item (if I remember correctly), it can be not only the main lounge hub but also a second HQ head-fi system.


----------



## volikovvv

Thank you guys, for 5v isolation usb advice. One question is it worth buying power cable for r2r-11 and which?


----------



## ahmedie (May 28, 2018)

VilMo said:


> Just to add to the context, after getting the R2R11 I sold my Marantz HD DAC1, Chord Mojo, iFi nano iUSB3.0, Allo DigiOne player and my Singxer F1 is up for sale still.
> Yesterday I removed the iFi iDefender from the chain and find the straight connection laptop->Supra USB with pin # 1 covered->R2R11 even better than with the iDefender (improved dynamics on both sides).
> I am waiting for an iFi AC iPurifier next week and will report the effect.
> I am loving the R2R11 and it is amazing!


Try using Schiit Eitr it will improve sound considerably. Every one who have the r2r 11 must buy Eitr as it improve SQL too much for price.


----------



## sennsay

My own R2R-11 will be leaving China any day now, looking forward to it. It won't be for desktop use though, it will be a part of a new main system in the lounge, connected to a set of powered studio monitors. A new hub, if you will.


----------



## VilMo

ahmedie said:


> Try using Schiit Eitr it will improve sound considerably. Every one who have the r2r 11 must buy Eitr as it improve SQL too much for price.


I am planning to try Eitr soon.


----------



## volikovvv

ahmedie said:


> Try using Schiit Eitr it will improve sound considerably. Every one who have the r2r 11 must buy Eitr as it improve SQL too much for price.


I tried to use eitr but, audioquest carbon usb 0.75m cable with 5v pin isolation gives better sound than stock audio-gd cable->eitr->monster coaxial cable->audio-gd, i used eitr for a few days and returned it back, this is only my IMHO(don't know how your system react on eitr)


----------



## ProLoL

Using Supra USB and isolating the 5v pin gives such an improvement it feels like a new device.


----------



## volikovvv

ProLoL said:


> Using Supra USB and isolating the 5v pin gives such an improvement it feels like a new device.


The same with carbon cable and 5v, agree.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> Using Supra USB and isolating the 5v pin gives such an improvement it feels like a new device.


Are you aware the Amanero interface has no 5v pin? It’s disabled by default. Blocking it does nothing.


----------



## sennsay

gLer said:


> Are you aware the Amanero interface has no 5v pin? It’s disabled by default. Blocking it does nothing.


That is correct. Any sound differences I imagine would then be due to cable interfaces etc. Far be it from me to say someone didn't hear a difference - I've heard subtleties fro many years - but that 5V pin is definitely not connected in the R2R-11.


----------



## volikovvv (May 28, 2018)

gLer said:


> Are you aware the Amanero interface has no 5v pin? It’s disabled by default. Blocking it does nothing.


Blocking 5v on the pc side, reduces the interference of the power 5v line and the digital line 5v inside the cable itself and this is very audible, at least with good cables. Maybe it make sense, when you have noisy 5v pc usb power output(probably this is my case)


----------



## gLer

volikovvv said:


> Blocking 5v on the pc side, reduces the interference of the power 5v line and the digital line 5v inside the cable itself and this is very audible, at least with good cables. Maybe it make sense, when you have noisy 5v pc usb power output(probably this is my case)


That could be the case indeed. In my case (running off an iMac 27” with an ifi USB purifier), blocking the 5v line made zero audible difference. YMMV as with everything else in this hobby.


----------



## gLer

volikovvv said:


> I tried to use eitr but, audioquest carbon usb 0.75m cable with 5v pin isolation gives better sound than stock audio-gd cable->eitr->monster coaxial cable->audio-gd, i used eitr for a few days and returned it back, this is only my IMHO(don't know how your system react on eitr)


Just goes to show ‘common wisdom’ is not always so wise


----------



## volikovvv (Jun 3, 2018)

[Edited by mod]
I conducted a lot of audiences and experiments with this device and not only, so I thought very well before writing about what I wrote about....

p.s. By the way, may opinion is just opinion and not more. If your experience differs from my, not a problem, that's great Maybe because you hear "yanni" instead of "lorel" - if you know what i mean(that's was joke)


----------



## ProLoL

I blocked the 5v pin without expecting any improvements, nor I purchased a Supra usb cable to "upgrade my system". Eventually it does make a difference, try it yourself, didn't like? nothing to worry about.


----------



## sennsay (May 28, 2018)

volikovvv said:


> Blocking 5v on the pc side, reduces the interference of the power 5v line and the digital line 5v inside the cable itself and this is very audible, at least with good cables. Maybe it make sense, when you have noisy 5v pc usb power output(probably this is my case)


Yes, good point! PC/Mac all have noisy USB power, hence the Eitr/Jitterbug solutions. And a noisy line beside signal cables are probably best avoided. 


volikovvv said:


> I conducted a lot of audiences and experiments with this device and not only, so I thought very well before writing about what I wrote about....
> 
> p.s. By the way, may opinion is just opinion and not more. If your experience differs from my, not a problem, that's great Maybe because you hear "yanni" instead of "lorel" - if you know what i mean(that's was joke)


  I hear only yearly!


----------



## Whitigir (May 28, 2018)

USB is always a noisy interface, because itself wasn’t designed for Audio performances.  Take a look, all DAC are speaking in I2S, and USB will be converted into I2S inside the DAC before decoding.

Is a computer noisy ? No, maybe for a generic and typical consumer grade laptop, PC with a lot of switching power supplies.

A computer built for music performances is not noisy, when it is built with linear PS.  Take a look at Sound Gallery PC, and PinkfaunPC, then tell me they are noisy, and that such $100 solution can improve your typical Computer to it level

https://www.audiostream.com/content/sound-galleries-sgm-2015-music-server


----------



## gLer

volikovvv said:


> I conducted a lot of audiences and experiments with this device and not only, so I thought very well before writing about what I wrote about....


Hi - I wasn’t meaning you - you seem to have done your homework. Was talking to that ‘audiophools’ guy...


----------



## benirohit458

Hey guys any updates with the popping problem on the R2R-11?
If it still exists, I can opt for the NFB11 instead
Need your help to make a purchase decision


----------



## MelonHead

benirohit458 said:


> Hey guys any updates with the popping problem on the R2R-11?
> If it still exists, I can opt for the NFB11 instead
> Need your help to make a purchase decision


Hi Nenirohit!
Read back a few pages. There are many comments about this. 
The popping problem has been solved. No problem with units, produced after March. Former units can be upgraded with a new firmware.


----------



## xkonfuzed

For some reason my R2R 11 is having trouble with files sampled at 192kHz. Doesn't matter the format, there is a loud screeching noise with frequent cuts and distortions. Tried using numerous sound drivers (KS, ASIO, wasapi) and the problem persisted on all of them.

Just tested at higher sampling rates by forcing it to upsample in shared mode to 352kHZ and 384kHz and its even worse at those rates. I'm guessing this is a hardware problem at this point.

Anyone have any input on this?


----------



## MelonHead (May 29, 2018)

There is a common agreement, that the R2R-11 struggles with many DSD files, and produces noticeable noise in pianissimo part of high DR acoustic tracks in native DSD mode. but I never heard this problem with high-res. PCM files. I've tested some tracks from McCoy Tyner,Mozart and Muddy Waters right now, but didn't notice any issues.
If you use Foobar2000, please check if PCM to DSD conversion is disabled or not.
What player do you use? If it's possible, please try another software and report here if the problem exists with that.


----------



## xkonfuzed

Funnily enough DSD is working fine for me. I use Foobar mostly but I tried it with JRiver and it persisted.

Also, the problem seems to have gone now. Absolutely no idea what fixed this. I know for a fact that its not player-associated problem.


----------



## spacequeen7 (May 29, 2018)

xkonfuzed said:


> For some reason my R2R 11 is having trouble with files sampled at 192kHz. Doesn't matter the format, there is a loud screeching noise with frequent cuts and distortions. Tried using numerous sound drivers (KS, ASIO, wasapi) and the problem persisted on all of them.
> 
> Just tested at higher sampling rates by forcing it to upsample in shared mode to 352kHZ and 384kHz and its even worse at those rates. I'm guessing this is a hardware problem at this point.
> 
> Anyone have any input on this?


I'm listening/up-sampling via JRiver @352kHz (Flac and Spotify ) no problem whatsoever


----------



## Anaz

xkonfuzed said:


> For some reason my R2R 11 is having trouble with files sampled at 192kHz. Doesn't matter the format, there is a loud screeching noise with frequent cuts and distortions. Tried using numerous sound drivers (KS, ASIO, wasapi) and the problem persisted on all of them.
> 
> Just tested at higher sampling rates by forcing it to upsample in shared mode to 352kHZ and 384kHz and its even worse at those rates. I'm guessing this is a hardware problem at this point.
> 
> Anyone have any input on this?



Are you using an optical connection by any chance - I experienced exactly what you’re describing when using a Toslink cable. If so, max sample rate per the R2R 11 spec page is 96 kHz.


----------



## VilMo

Has anyone tried the R2R11 with Beyerdynamic T90?
There is a second hand T90 for sale with very good price but I am hesitant to engage blindly. I have never heard Beyerdynamic cans. 
The T90 is described and analytical and siblant in some cases. Can the R2R11 compensate for this?
The HD800 is described in similar terms (although technically much better) and there are reports that it synergizes really well with R2R11 (also Kingwa uses it with R2R11, I think it was igor who reported this).

So anyone tried the T90 with R2R11?


----------



## dlmorgan999

I am considering buying an NFB-11.  I see that there is currently a small production run of an NFB11-38 being done. It's $70 more than the 28 (with the TXCO added) and it appears that the only difference is the ES9038 vs the ES9028.

I've done a bit of searching but so far haven't been able to discern the differences.  Is it worth the $70 increase in cost?  Thoughts?


----------



## Whitigir

dlmorgan999 said:


> I am considering buying an NFB-11.  I see that there is currently a small production run of an NFB11-38 being done. It's $70 more than the 28 (with the TXCO added) and it appears that the only difference is the ES9038 vs the ES9028.
> 
> I've done a bit of searching but so far haven't been able to discern the differences.  Is it worth the $70 increase in cost?  Thoughts?



Es9028Pro has lower Dynamic range than ES9038Pro.  The 9038Pro is the top of the line from ESS now.


----------



## gLer

Whitigir said:


> Es9028Pro has lower Dynamic range than ES9038Pro.  The 9038Pro is the top of the line from ESS now.


What does that mean practically? Has anyone actually heard the 9028 and 9038 and could describe the actual benefits, of any? For example, what differences would you pick up between the 28.28 and 28.38 (only because those have been out for ages and the 11.38 is new and untested).


----------



## Whitigir

gLer said:


> What does that mean practically? Has anyone actually heard the 9028 and 9038 and could describe the actual benefits, of any? For example, what differences would you pick up between the 28.28 and 28.38 (only because those have been out for ages and the 11.38 is new and untested).



I don’t have a full scale desktop Of different DAC of the same brand here to do just that.  But technically speaking for Sigma-Delta, higher dynamic range results in better timbres realism.  Simply put, less harshness or digital glares.

I do have Ibasso DX200 which has Dual ESS9028Pro, and also LKS004 which has Dual ESS9038Pro.  It is not fair to compare them both just for the sake of Chip VS Chip.  Because there are many other parameters at plays here.  But I can tell you the one thing I am so sure Off is that the LKS004 does not have any Digital Glares or Harshness, at all, while DX200 does have it in comparison.

Also, it depends on people other gears such as amplifier and headphones to determines.  Sometimes noises, or glares, or harshness could be perceived for better resolutions, brightness, or more preferable.

I just can not tell you enough how this can of worms can expand.

Just simply to answer your questions.  The ES9038Pro is the utmost superior in ESS technology At this very moment.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 1, 2018)

My R2R arrived today and had the new Dekoni Elite Velour pads come with them in the same courier delivery. I'm 3 1/2 hours into the warming up R2R, The Who's Live At Leeds is currently belting out - effortlessly - into the 600 ohm Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s at only around 1pm on the dial, powering along with slamming lead guitar chords, cracking and speedy drums, crisp bass guitar from one of the very best there ever was and belting vocals, the audience well separated out behind the band in space. If this is the R2R when brand new, then I have much to look forward to!! Only another 496 1/2 hrs to being fully run in according to king-wa  I suspect it will be even more magnificent well before that time, already it has lost the slightly thick bass and mild electronic glare of new electronics and The Who sounds full of life, dynamic and expressive, I know this album very well and it's damn fine at the moment! No slugging of rhythms, it's already very coherent and musically fluid, my kind of gear!
Technically, it has quite a bit less power than the Magni 3 into 300/600 ohms, but I'd never know it. Excellent. Already it's made me want to sing along with The Mamaku Project and get up and dance to the swinging Saharan desert blues of Terakaft. Now THAT is a musical instrument in my book. In fact, any gear that can't do that is out the door and doesn't belong in my home, no matter how technically proficient it may be. This one's a keeper! A cracking bit of kit. Thank you, king-wa!
P.S. So far this is via the MacBook Pro, USB out through the AQ Jitterbug/Kimber USB cable. I'll try the QP1R via optical out later this evening, I suspect it might be even better. No, I haven't done the 5V blocking trick yet.


----------



## FredA

xkonfuzed said:


> Funnily enough DSD is working fine for me. I use Foobar mostly but I tried it with JRiver and it persisted.
> 
> Also, the problem seems to have gone now. Absolutely no idea what fixed this. I know for a fact that its not player-associated problem.


Dsd might require some specific break-in time because the conversion is done at a much higher frequency than pcm.


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> My R2R arrived today and had the new Dekoni Elite Velour pads come with them in the same courier delivery. I'm 3 1/2 hours into the warming up R2R, The Who's Live At Leeds is currently belting out - effortlessly - into the 600 ohm Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s at only around 1pm on the dial, powering along with slamming lead guitar chords, cracking and speedy drums, crisp bass guitar from one of the very best there ever was and belting vocals, the audience well separated out behind the band in space. If this is the R2R when brand new, then I have much to look forward to!! Only another 496 1/2 hrs to being fully run in according to king-wa  I suspect it will be even more magnificent well before that time, already it has lost the slightly thick bass and mild electronic glare of new electronics and The Who sounds full of life, dynamic and expressive, I know this album very well and it's damn fine at the moment! No slugging of rhythms, it's already very coherent and musically fluid, my kind of gear!
> Technically, it has quite a bit less power than the Magni 3 into 300/600 ohms, but I'd never know it. Excellent. Already it's made me want to sing along with The Mamaku Project and get up and dance to the swinging Saharan desert blues of Terakaft. Now THAT is a musical instrument in my book. In fact, any gear that can't do that is out the door and doesn't belong in my home, no matter how technically proficient it may be. This one's a keeper! A cracking bit of kit. Thank you, king-wa!
> P.S. So far this is via the MacBook Pro, USB out through the AQ Jitterbug/Kimber USB cable. I'll try the QP1R via optical out later this evening, I suspect it might be even better. No, I haven't done the 5V blocking trick yet.


The bass will get better. And other aspects. But as you said, it's great from day 1. How coherent, fluid and spatially accurate it is, in that price range, is something really special.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> The bass will get better. And other aspects. But as you said, it's great from day 1. How coherent, fluid and spatially accurate it is, in that price range, is something really special.


Indeed it is! It complements the Schiit stack beautifully, that coherent fluidity is shared with them both.


----------



## gLer

xkonfuzed said:


> Funnily enough DSD is working fine for me. I use Foobar mostly but I tried it with JRiver and it persisted.
> 
> Also, the problem seems to have gone now. Absolutely no idea what fixed this. I know for a fact that its not player-associated problem.


Were the noise issues associated with DSD or PCM? The R2R-11 does have issues playing back native DSD - it suffers from high frequency radio noise during quieter passages of some but not all DSD files. If you’re not hearing any HF interference during DSD playback then either those particular files aren’t affected or your player is not playing back native DSD but converting to PCM along the way. PCM playback is perfect for me at every sample rate. Great unit indeed - endgame-quality dac for sure.


----------



## sennsay

Heck, I've heard much more expensive gear that does not sound this real to the human voice, just for example. Katie Melua's voice is quite delicious .. got the new Dekoni pads on the HD6xx, they're still no HD540 Ref1s, but much better now than with the stock pads and significantly more comfortable. I could listen to this for hours! On low gain cruising effortlessly at 11 o'clock. The orchestra sounds beautiful. Outrageously good kit!


----------



## J Mirra

Totally agree it sounds wonderful a deep and wide sound stage on the T1.1, the bass is very layered and sounds 3D moving front to back as the notes change I have never heard this with any other DAC / AMP.

The T1.1 have bass with authority now, gorgeous vocals and the highs are just right where they have sounded harsh in the past.  

So pleased with it


----------



## MelonHead

VilMo said:


> Has anyone tried the R2R11 with Beyerdynamic T90?
> There is a second hand T90 for sale with very good price but I am hesitant to engage blindly. I have never heard Beyerdynamic cans.
> The T90 is described and analytical and siblant in some cases. Can the R2R11 compensate for this?
> The HD800 is described in similar terms (although technically much better) and there are reports that it synergizes really well with R2R11 (also Kingwa uses it with R2R11, I think it was igor who reported this).
> ...


@VilMo : I'm not a headphones expert by any means, but I like the classic Beyerdynamic sound signature. My Amiron Home is the "so-called" successor of the T90. I've been using it for more than a week now and I'm very satisfied with this combo. If R2R-11 wouldn't have the native dsd issue, this setup were my endgame for a few years.


----------



## sennsay

Wow, here's one for the books! I found the new Dekoni pads a touch too warm for the R2R, so I went back to the stock pads - with Mogami cable - and the result is quite stunningly good! The best I've ever heard the HD6xx/650s. Yes, they lack lower bass dynamic range (the stock pads), but the overall balance is so good that I can't say I particularly care with most music. Only with this amp though. 
F'rinstance, I have been just running the amp with a large iTunes selection, quite a few of them recordings of artists from the excellent X-Factor TV series of a couple of years ago. Like .. wow! Totally ALIVE! As in sitting in the audience alive. Even Devo whipping it into shape sounds brilliant  This amp and DAC is simply outrageous! Not even just for the money, simply brilliant on it's own terms. It readily ebbs and flows in SQ depending on the quality .. or lack thereof - of the various tracks. At all times though, it is superbly alive and musical. Along with the Schiit gear, I am gratefully stunned that such quality kit is available for such reachable prices. 
 Running in for 26 hours now and stonkingly good!


----------



## Nickol (Jun 2, 2018)

*sennsay,*
I see that you are registered and joined the club of lovers of quality audio for a long time, and you have experience listening to different devices. So, are you definitely satisfied with how the R2R-11 plays music?


----------



## sennsay (Jun 2, 2018)

Nickol said:


> *sennsay,*
> I see that you are registered and joined the club of lovers of quality audio for a long time, and you have experience listening to different devices. So, are you definitely satisfied with how the R2R-11 plays music?


A little while ago I spent over two hours singing AND dancing with the HD6xx on my head, loving the sheer joy and rhythmic integrity of the R2R! Over the years I've listened to gear that cost thirty times the price of the R2R + HD6xx and it did nothing for me like this little combo does! It goes straight to the heart of the music, bypassing the hearing process and directly into LISTENING, which is quite a different thing, since the ears hear, the heart listens and responds and man did my body respond! What fun to just enjoy the music in both mind AND body. Wonderful. I'm also very happy to share that this is the first time I've _actually enjoyed_ listening to the HD6xx! They work really well with the R2R, as brilliantly as the HD540 Ref1s gel with the Mimby/Magni 3 combo. Magic. The Mogami cable allows more magic without editorialising. The musical flow is superb. On low gain too, anywhere from 11pm to 2pm sounded just brilliant.
Yes, Nickol, I am well satisfied, thank you!


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> A little while ago I spent over two hours singing AND dancing with the HD6xx on my head, loving the sheer joy and rhythmic integrity of the R2R! Over the years I've listened to gear that cost thirty times the price of the R2R + HD6xx and it did nothing for me like this little combo does! It goes straight to the heart of the music, bypassing the hearing process and directly into LISTENING, which is quite a different thing, since the ears hear, the heart listens and responds and man did my body respond! What fun to just enjoy the music in both mind AND body. Wonderful. I'm also very happy to share that this is the first time I've _actually enjoyed_ listening to the HD6xx! They work really well with the R2R, as brilliantly as the HD540 Ref1s gel with the Mimby/Magni 3 combo. Magic. The Mogami cable allows more magic without editorialising. The musical flow is superb. On low gain too, anywhere from 11pm to 2pm sounded just brilliant.
> Yes, Nickol, I am well satisfied, thank you!


I totally agree with you. This little combo is really special. Good enough to be used as a dac in a >10k system as far as i am concerned.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> I totally agree with you. This little combo is really special. Good enough to be used as a dac in a >10k system as far as i am concerned.


Indeed and by the sound of it, some folks have done just that! I'm currently listening to the excellent Jack White's Acoustic Recordings: 1998-2016 album, actually a two disc set. I've actually never heard it sound this ... well, I hesitate to use the word 'good', doesn't seem to do the experience justice ... alive and true to life. Like listening to a really great analogue system.


----------



## spacequeen7

Hi sennsay if you don't mind asking,what exactly is the cable you speaking of (Mogami ) ?


----------



## sennsay

spacequeen7 said:


> Hi sennsay if you don't mind asking,what exactly is the cable you speaking of (Mogami ) ?


Mogami cable is the superb quality cable made in Japan for recording studios around the planet. The No 2893 cable I use is a quad core microphone cable and is the slightly narrower diameter version of the No 2534 quad core cable used widely. Venus Audio on eBay use the No 2534 cable to make their excellent HD650/600/540/250 replacement cables - they will use the lighter No 2893 if asked and use it regardless for the 2.5mm plugs on some headphone cables - like the HE400s, for example. 
The quality is exemplary, Japanese precision, passing all frequencies as perfectly as possible. It makes for an incredibly well balanced and extremely quiet headphone cable. The stock HD6xx/650 cable by comparison sounds bass light, less dynamically capable and pinched forward in the soundstage, as well as a little brighter in the upper mids. The Mogami opens out the stage, appears to be incredibly linear from deepest bass to the very top end - it shows in the listening - some sounds seemingly coming from behind the ears and the headphones themselves dissolve further out of the way. The HD6xx have become almost as brilliant as the Ref1s at this disappearing act, immersing you more _into_ the music. Combined with the a-gd R2R-11 the effect is stunning, less hifi, more real human beings. 
 I now make this cable up for all of my headphones, it has exactly the same effect, dependant only on the quality of the cans themselves. 
If you don't want to go to the trouble/creativity of making them yourself, then Venus Audio will be delighted to sell you some at a decent price, far less than some brands that don't necessarily sound any better or just get out of the way that the Mogami cable does. You can also buy Mogami interconnects from the home website.


----------



## sennsay

But gee, as mighty fine in their own right as the HD6xx are with the R2R, switching to the HD540 Ref1s playing Kraftwerk's Neon Lights, the effect is electrifying! Being immersed into the music takes on a whole new meaning again. How to have your head and headphones vanish ....... difficult to describe, more like virtual reality. The R2R seems to be getting better as every few hours go by. The bass has loosened up considerably and is dynamically very expressive. The 600 ohm Ref1s are easily driven on low gain at 2pm on the dial, less on albums with greater recording level. However, on the Jack White album there is a focused charm that is even better on the HD6xx, despite the slightly lessened openness. Both are terrific with the R2R.


----------



## spacequeen7

Thanks,I was just wondering since both my planar's pair better then HD-650 with R2R11
Cheers


----------



## sennsay (Jun 2, 2018)

Mmm, just listening to the HifiMAN HE400S, stock cable and with the Focus A pads, Jack White's lovely recording of Acoustic Recordings 1998-2016. They are sounding better than when I listened to them in the earlier hours of burn-in. I would call them good .. yet lacking the magical touch that the two Sennheisers bring, vocals seem more of a flatter plane then the more 3D solidity of the Senns, the Ref1s also separate various elements in the depth plane much better. I still find the best sound in a musical sense comes from using them directly into the QP1R and there they are terrific. With the R2R I am bored. Maybe the new Mogami cable will bring a new dimension to them ... I will have them ready next week. I have no sense of thrill, joy and emotional connection to the music with them as they are here, nothing like last night's experience with the Mogami'd HD6XX or Ref1s. And, there is a slight electrical (?) hardness creating a very light fatigue in a way, as clear as they are, I won't be able to have them on my head for long. Almost a 'digititus' effect, like listening to a mid 90's CD player. I don't get this with the QP1R/HE400S combo.
 I have the feeling that the HD6xx have found a great home now! After feeling so iffy about them since their arrival in March, swapping pads and trying to get them to open out and come alive, _now_ they are singing!

P.S. I have just popped the same piece of music (that I interrupted half way through on the HE400s) into the HD6xx and instantly I just shut my eyes and immerse myself into the music, the human voices have just come alive and expressive, even the various instruments have an effortless rhythmic flow, 3D depth and solidity to them that sounds like the real thing. A truly vast difference in experience! Like going from an averagely good CD player to a really fine analogue turntable and if you haven't heard the difference, then you won't understand what I'm sharing here. Night and day.


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> Mmm, just listening to the HifiMAN HE400S, stock cable and with the Focus A pads, Jack White's lovely recording of Acoustic Recordings 1998-2016. They are sounding better than when I listened to them in the earlier hours of burn-in. I would call them good .. yet lacking the magical touch that the two Sennheisers bring, vocals seem more of a flatter plane then the more 3D solidity of the Senns, the Ref1s also separate various elements in the depth plane much better. I still find the best sound in a musical sense comes from using them directly into the QP1R and there they are terrific. With the R2R I am bored. Maybe the new Mogami cable will bring a new dimension to them ... I will have them ready next week. I have no sense of thrill, joy and emotional connection to the music with them as they are here, nothing like last night's experience with the Mogami'd HD6XX or Ref1s. And, there is a slight electrical (?) hardness creating a very light fatigue in a way, as clear as they are, I won't be able to have them on my head for long. Almost a 'digititis' effect, like listening to a mid 90's CD player. I don't get this with the QP1R/HE400S combo.
> I have the feeling that the HD6xx have found a great home now! After feeling so iffy about them since their arrival in March, swapping pads and trying to get them to open out and come alive, _now_ they are singing!
> 
> P.S. I have just popped the same piece of music (that I interrupted half way through on the HE400s) into the HD6xx and instantly I just shut my eyes and immerse myself into the music, the human voices have just come alive and expressive, even the various instruments have an effortless rhythmic flow, 3D depth and solidity to them that sounds like the real thing. A truly vast difference in experience! Like going from an averagely good CD player to a really fine analogue turntable and if you haven't heard the difference, then you won't understand what I'm sharing here. Night and day.


The he-560s do very well with the r2r 11, only lacking with deep bass. However, for clasical, it's an awesome match.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> The he-560s do very well with the r2r 11, only lacking with deep bass. However, for clasical, it's an awesome match.


Ok, good to know. There is no lack of deep bass with the HE400S, just the effects I described above. It's quite the thing that they sound more communicative with the 40mW output of the QP1R than they do with several watts of R2R. Go figure  It is as it is. I haven't tried any classical yet, although I still want that immersive communicative experience from all my music.


----------



## Nickol

Hi, guys
What do the community think about that?: http://pcaudiophile.ru/hard-soft/dac/dac2/379-budget-dac-for-notebook
There are two questions about the R2R-11 and answers to them.
You can use the translater to learn and read them.

After that, tell me please, what do you think about that?


----------



## DW75

Has anyone here tested the NFB-11.28 against the M-Stage HPA-2 with the LME49990MA upgrade ? I am talking about just the amp section being compared, as my M-Stage is just the stand alone amp version.


----------



## FredA

Nickol said:


> Hi, guys
> What do the community think about that?: http://pcaudiophile.ru/hard-soft/dac/dac2/379-budget-dac-for-notebook
> There are two questions about the R2R-11 and answers to them.
> You can use the translater to learn and read them.
> ...



After reading both answers, i conclude they are either biased by some commercial interest or they just don't know what they are talking about. One of the stong points of the r2r 11 is it can play all genre. Just because it's an inexpensive r2r design, without OS, they are stating it can't. I know for a fact it can, and i don't need anyone to tell me what to think about anything. Reminds me of some other computer audio forum that is always quick to dismiss good comments about audio-gd. People who think that only ordinary and honest people post on forums are up for a bitter awakening.


----------



## volikovvv (Jun 3, 2018)

sennsay said:


> P.S. So far this is via the MacBook Pro, USB out through the AQ Jitterbug/Kimber USB cable. I'll try the QP1R via optical out later this evening, I suspect it might be even better. No, I haven't done the 5V blocking trick yet.



Thanks for the detailed review, but in my case with "jitterbug" as it seemed to me makes the sound  more clenched, the impression was created that "jitterbug" ate a dynamic range and added some kind of flatness, all the magic of the sound was lost. At that time, I did not yet know about the isolation of 5 volts and used "jitterbug" + audioquest carbon 0.75 cable. What kimber cable do you use for USB(maybe you compared it with audioquest carbon)? Does it make sense to try another power cable, how do think?

I use r2r-11 at office where a lot of EMI and power network with a lot of switching power supply(impulse) from laptops, monitors etc, and i hear some kind of  interference in the form of quiet crunches / wheezing on very quiet moments in music, looks like this mood come from power grid, maybe power cable can help me, some people says that power cords works like some kind of filters... I tried apc power filter, it actually killed the sound... I like the sound of device so much, especially with carbon cable with 5v isolation, but i don't no what to do with this very quite crunches


Sincerly, Andrew


----------



## FredA (Jun 3, 2018)

volikovvv said:


> Thanks for the detailed review, but in my case with "jitterbug" as it seemed to me makes the sound  more clenched, the impression was created that "jitterbug" ate a dynamic range and added some kind of flatness, all the magic of the sound was lost. At that time, I did not yet know about the isolation of 5 volts and used "jitterbug" + audioquest carbon 0.75 cable. What kimber cable do you use for USB(maybe you compared it with audioquest carbon)? Does it make sense to try another power cable, how do think?
> 
> I use r2r-11 at office where a lot of EMI and power network with a lot of switching power supply(impulse) from laptops, monitors etc, and i hear some kind of  interference in the form of quiet crunches / wheezing on very quiet moments in music, looks like this mood come from power grid, maybe power cable can help me, some people says that power cords works like some kind of filters... I tried apc power filter, it actually killed the sound... I like the sound of device so much, especially with carbon cable with 5v isolation, but i don't no what to do with this very quite crunches
> 
> ...


Try all usb ports. The noise level normally varies from one the the other. The ones on the back are usually quieter than those on the front.


----------



## sennsay

volikovvv said:


> Thanks for the detailed review, but in my case with "jitterbug" as it seemed to me makes the sound  more clenched, the impression was created that "jitterbug" ate a dynamic range and added some kind of flatness, all the magic of the sound was lost. At that time, I did not yet know about the isolation of 5 volts and used "jitterbug" + audioquest carbon 0.75 cable. What kimber cable do you use for USB(maybe you compared it with audioquest carbon)? Does it make sense to try another power cable, how do think?
> 
> I use r2r-11 at office where a lot of EMI and power network with a lot of switching power supply(impulse) from laptops, monitors etc, and i hear some kind of  interference in the form of quiet crunches / wheezing on very quiet moments in music, looks like this mood come from power grid, maybe power cable can help me, some people says that power cords works like some kind of filters... I tried apc power filter, it actually killed the sound... I like the sound of device so much, especially with carbon cable with 5v isolation, but i don't no what to do with this very quite crunches
> 
> ...


I answered using the PM you sent  For other folks, no, the Jitterbug has not squashed any dynamic range and in fact the R2R has been performing brilliantly, no weird noises, no squeals, no hiss, no hum, no 5V isolation  ..... just great music! Since this R2R will be used as the hub for our lounge music and TV system - mostly, plus quite a few late night listening session, no doubt - I'm not going to fuss with what is already a terrific piece of kit. I haven't switched it off since it arrived three days ago, so I've been able to regularly check in on it and hear how the run-in process has altered the sound in waves, some subtle, others bring more of a feeling that the same tracks sound fantastic one hour and later in the day a little darker and less dramatic. This is often normal with some types of electronics and much less so with others. I know that the Schiit Yggdrasil needed a good month before really settling into it's easy stride. king-wa still tells me up to 500 hours for the R2R to be at it's very best. I'm working on it  already around the 68 1/2 hour mark. I remember running in an a-gd Earth HDAM in a headphone amp I built and it went through some amazing changes, the biggest at the 50 hour mark when it seemed as if a subwoofer had kicked in and it's stayed like that ever since. The 50 hour mark seems to be a common shift point for a lot of gear to 'relax' as it were, headphones included, my original HD650 did exactly that. Maybe I just have an ear for such subtleties, as do many others. 
Yes I know, there are many folks out there who absolutely rubbish burn-in/run-in, and they're welcome to their opinion, it is most certainly NOT my experience over 40 years in this 'hobby', so I don't make my own opinions the reference point for the rest of the planet either  
 We have one of those insidiously nasty so-called 'smart' power meters that the blasted power company snuck in one day when we were out - not so smart meters! The amount of hash, hums and buzzes that it puts through the power system is criminal - I would dearly love to take a hammer to the damn thing - BUT it is not affecting the R2R in any way that seems deleterious to it's health or my ears .... so far.


----------



## VilMo (Jun 3, 2018)

volikovvv said:


> Thanks for the detailed review, but in my case with "jitterbug" as it seemed to me makes the sound  more clenched, the impression was created that "jitterbug" ate a dynamic range and added some kind of flatness, all the magic of the sound was lost. At that time, I did not yet know about the isolation of 5 volts and used "jitterbug" + audioquest carbon 0.75 cable. What kimber cable do you use for USB(maybe you compared it with audioquest carbon)? Does it make sense to try another power cable, how do think?
> 
> I use r2r-11 at office where a lot of EMI and power network with a lot of switching power supply(impulse) from laptops, monitors etc, and i hear some kind of  interference in the form of quiet crunches / wheezing on very quiet moments in music, looks like this mood come from power grid, maybe power cable can help me, some people says that power cords works like some kind of filters... I tried apc power filter, it actually killed the sound... I like the sound of device so much, especially with carbon cable with 5v isolation, but i don't no what to do with this very quite crunches
> 
> ...


Andrew, it seems to me that in your circumstances you will be very well served by an AC iPurifier (iFi audio). I still cannot take the smile out of my face for the last two weeks since the AC iPurifier arrived. It vastly improved the dynamics and reduced the noise floor in my system. Now music emerges from completely black background. Jaw dropping really for me. I cannot recommend it enough. I have used/tried quite a few iFi products with mixed results. AC iPurifier exceeded expectations by a mile. Fair to say - I like it a lot☺️
Edit: to answer more directly some of your questions:
Yes, power cables do make a difference with R2R11. The power cable I use is in my signature. My guess is however that the AC iPurifier will make bigger difference.
Regarding Jitterbug, my exerience is similar to yours. I sold it.


----------



## FredA

Just ordered the ac purifier after reading you impressions and reviews on amazon. Looking forward to trying it.


----------



## VilMo

FredA said:


> Just ordered the ac purifier after reading you impressions and reviews on amazon. Looking forward to trying it.


Please share your experiences when you get the AC iPurifier. It will be interesting if it will have positive effect on your R2R7 also.


----------



## volikovvv

VilMo said:


> Andrew, it seems to me that in your circumstances you will be very well served by an AC iPurifier (iFi audio). I still cannot take the smile out of my face for the last two weeks since the AC iPurifier arrived. It vastly improved the dynamics and reduced the noise floor in my system. Now music emerges from completely black background. Jaw dropping really for me. I cannot recommend it enough. I have used/tried quite a few iFi products with mixed results. AC iPurifier exceeded expectations by a mile. Fair to say - I like it a lot☺️
> Edit: to answer more directly some of your questions:
> Yes, power cables do make a difference with R2R11. The power cable I use is in my signature. My guess is however that the AC iPurifier will make bigger difference.
> Regarding Jitterbug, my exerience is similar to yours. I sold it.


Yep, i'm sold jitterbug too, seems to be difficult to find ifi ac purifier at local sellers in Ukraine. Thank you for advice.


----------



## VilMo

I am posting this on this thread because R2R 11 is my preferred DAC/AMP but this recent discovery is really profound and I my belief is that it will soon be common knowledge.
Please note that this benefits directly only people who use SPDIF/I2S converters or other DC-powered equipment, not R2R 11 owners  who use straight USB connection.

After getting the AC iPurifier my system became more resolving and I was able to notice differences between cable changes and inputs more easily. So I experimented re-introducing the Singxer F1 between my laptop and R1R 11. This time the F1 came out as slightly superior to the Amanero USB input. Before the ac iPurifier F1 it sounded softer, Amanero had more character.  Now the F1 leaded on musicality and finesse, attack and drive also not lacking. 

It was however the inexpected but wonderful surprise discovery made by Rob(Bob) - known as Tubelover2 on various fora that contributed another leap in quality. 

The discovery was made by Tubelover2 on this forum: http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172&start=3480
The appliacation of the concept was further developed here: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/42959-iso-regen-performance-improvement-cheap/

I will try to give a brief explantion of the PoE DC discovery. What Rob found out was that supplying DC power through a cat7 ftp cable to Singxer F1 and in fact to many other DC-powered devices brougth unexpected but remarkable a benefits to the sound: increased soundstage, dynamics and further realism to the sound. Other people after this tried Cat8 with even further gains. 

I can confirm this from personal experience that this works and is really REAL.

Inspired by Rob's discovery I took out my soldering iron and multimeter and a piece of Cat7 sftp cable. One one end of the cable I soldered a female DC lead (one pair for DC+ and one pair for ground) and on the other side I soldered a female USB A connector. On the DC side I connected a 5Vdc SMPS followed by DC iPurifier. LPS should work even better but I currently do not have  one. On the USB side I connected the Forza Twin USB Cable (https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=46) with power leg connected to the cat7 cable and the data leg to my latop. Important notice: the 5Vdc power supply must be connected to the same power strip as the R2R 11 to avoid ground loops. 

The leap in sound quality is simply amazing. No kidding. Factroring the negligible cost of this addition - incredible value!     
There is also an inexpensive way to try this without any soldering - and it is well documented in the above threads. 

I took me almost 3 years to reach nearly 100 posts. I do not post unless I feel it is something worth sharing. I may have been wrong with some of my suggestions. But this is not one of those cases. 

Cheers. Enjoy the music.


----------



## MelonHead

VilMo said:


> I am posting this on this thread because R2R 11 is my preferred DAC/AMP but this recent discovery is really profound and I my belief is that it will soon be common knowledge.
> Please note that this benefits directly only people who use SPDIF/I2S converters or other DC-powered equipment, not R2R 11 owners  who use straight USB connection.
> 
> After getting the AC iPurifier my system became more resolving and I was able to notice differences between cable changes and inputs more easily. So I experimented re-introducing the Singxer F1 between my laptop and R1R 11. This time the F1 came out as slightly superior to the Amanero USB input. Before the ac iPurifier F1 it sounded softer, Amanero had more character.  Now the F1 leaded on musicality and finesse, attack and drive also not lacking.
> ...


VilMo, thanks for sharing this! 
Unfortunately I'm not an electronic technician, but I have a few people around me, who can help me in this. My English is maybe not enough to understand everything, but I'm afraid, as I can't visualize the drafted scenario, I can't explain the task to them. May I bother you to take a few pictures of the cable and the connections, as well as your whole setup and share them with us? Thanks in advance!


----------



## FredA

VilMo said:


> Please share your experiences when you get the AC iPurifier. It will be interesting if it will have positive effect on your R2R7 also.


I will.


----------



## FredA

volikovvv said:


> Yep, i'm sold jitterbug too, seems to be difficult to find ifi ac purifier at local sellers in Ukraine. Thank you for advice.


No problem either using the jitterbug.


----------



## FredA

VilMo said:


> I am posting this on this thread because R2R 11 is my preferred DAC/AMP but this recent discovery is really profound and I my belief is that it will soon be common knowledge.
> Please note that this benefits directly only people who use SPDIF/I2S converters or other DC-powered equipment, not R2R 11 owners  who use straight USB connection.
> 
> After getting the AC iPurifier my system became more resolving and I was able to notice differences between cable changes and inputs more easily. So I experimented re-introducing the Singxer F1 between my laptop and R1R 11. This time the F1 came out as slightly superior to the Amanero USB input. Before the ac iPurifier F1 it sounded softer, Amanero had more character.  Now the F1 leaded on musicality and finesse, attack and drive also not lacking.
> ...


A cat7 or cat8 cable provides excellent shielding. The Forza cable is also well shielded and will prevent contamination of the v-bus with its two separate trunks. In my setup, i should benefit from you experience by replacing my dc cable to the f-1 by cat-7 or cat-8. I suspect my cable in not well shielded.


----------



## VilMo (Jun 4, 2018)

FredA said:


> A cat7 or cat8 cable provides excellent shielding. The Forza cable is also well shielded and will prevent contamination of the v-bus with its two separate trunks. In my setup, i should benefit from you experience by replacing my dc cable to the f-1 by cat-7 or cat-8. I suspect my cable in not well shielded.


I guess it is time to eat the pudding


----------



## FredA

My ac purifier has shipped, should be able to report on it wednesday.


----------



## sumpao

My NFB11.38 just arrive today.

The detail of the sound is very precise.
I not own 11.28 before.

I use Asus xonar st with Burson op amp v.6 swap

NFB11.38 is kind of more detail but I love both


----------



## gLer

sumpao said:


> My NFB11.38 just arrive today.
> 
> The detail of the sound is very precise.
> I not own 11.28 before.
> ...


Thanks for your impressions. Would love to hear about differences in sound signature between the 11.38 and R2R-11. I’m getting mine back with the ‘firmware fix’ today so will report back on the ‘pops’ later. 

If the pops are gone, I’ll consider adding an NFB-1 ampnto the chain and gain balanced power out. If they’re not, I may opt for a 28.38 all-in-one, hence the question about the 11.38 sound vs R2R.


----------



## benirohit458

gLer said:


> Thanks for your impressions. Would love to hear about differences in sound signature between the 11.38 and R2R-11. I’m getting mine back with the ‘firmware fix’ today so will report back on the ‘pops’ later.
> 
> If the pops are gone, I’ll consider adding an NFB-1 ampnto the chain and gain balanced power out. If they’re not, I may opt for a 28.38 all-in-one, hence the question about the 11.38 sound vs R2R.


Please keep us posted with the popping problem post the firmware update... I'm due to order my R2R soon... If the popping is persistent... I can get the NFB11


----------



## sumpao

In the website I see that firmware update solve the problem of popping want to know too


----------



## sennsay

I reckon there must be a lot more power supply issues over there, my R2R is now installed into the re-created lounge system where it is just singing though a brand new set of Yamaha HS8 studio monitors. I never had any pops, crackles, hums or buzzes, even at full volume through the headphones on USB or optical. 
 I had my HD250 Linear 1s playing through the R2R last night and it sounded so good I thought I had my Ref1s on my head. That's saying a lot! Superb sonic focus throughout, despite the slight bass colouration sig, detail still prevailed. 
Xavier Rudd's live Good Spirit disc is fully present and alive in our lounge as I write. Brilliantly musical.


----------



## gLer

sennsay said:


> I reckon there must be a lot more power supply issues over there, my R2R is now installed into the re-created lounge system where it is just singing though a brand new set of Yamaha HS8 studio monitors. I never had any pops, crackles, hums or buzzes, even at full volume through the headphones on USB or optical.
> I had my HD250 Linear 1s playing through the R2R last night and it sounded so good I thought I had my Ref1s on my head. That's saying a lot! Superb sonic focus throughout, despite the slight bass colouration sig, detail still prevailed.
> Xavier Rudd's live Good Spirit disc is fully present and alive in our lounge as I write. Brilliantly musical.


No questioning the quality of this little guy, but the pops are inherent to the design of the initial release (pre-March 28, 2018), and you’ll hear them whenever changing sampling rates or sources. If you have them plugged in to a HT system and getting fed from one constant source like a CD player, then you won’t hear the pops because there’s no sample rate change. But plug them into a file server with different file formats and sampling rates and it’s like breakfast cereal every time you change a song or album. Hopefully the firmware update has fixed that, I’ll know in a couple of hours when I get home.


----------



## ProLoL (Jun 5, 2018)

sumpao said:


> My NFB11.38 just arrive today.
> 
> The detail of the sound is very precise.
> I not own 11.28 before.
> ...



I almost purchased the NFB11.38 my self duo to ES9038Pro then I got reminded that I'll never get the sound of that R2R11, and that precise delta sigma is available everywhere.
I think Audio GD offered an amazing deal on that ES9038, most likely the best implementation of that dac for that price.


----------



## MelonHead

benirohit458 said:


> Please keep us posted with the popping problem post the firmware update... I'm due to order my R2R soon... If the popping is persistent... I can get the NFB11


Mine will he updated tomorrow, but you don"t have to worry. R2R-11units produced after March should'nt have the popping issue as all of them are coming with the new firmware.


----------



## VilMo (Jun 5, 2018)

MelonHead said:


> VilMo, thanks for sharing this!
> Unfortunately I'm not an electronic technician, but I have a few people around me, who can help me in this. My English is maybe not enough to understand everything, but I'm afraid, as I can't visualize the drafted scenario, I can't explain the task to them. May I bother you to take a few pictures of the cable and the connections, as well as your whole setup and share them with us? Thanks in advance!



Here are some pictures of the Cat7 DC cable that I use and the twin USB Forza cable. 
The free USB side goes to the PC/USB source and it is Data only (+ground).
I hope it helps.


----------



## gLer

OK guys, here’s the scoop on the *new R2R-11 firmware* you’ve all been patiently waiting for.

TL;DR - it’s mostly good, excellent if you’re not playing native DSD. But just know it’s an improvement, not a total fix.

I’ve been listening now for about an hour. Tried a variety of file formats (flac, MP3, AAC and DSD) and multiple sample rates. Here’s my quick summary:

1. Mostly no pops between PCM tracks with different sample rates. Only the occasional very faint pop, hardly notable. And very rare (maybe 1 song in 20).

2. Slight pop between format change (DSD to PCM and vice versa). Much better than before - no loud shriek or pop when switching to DSD. 

3. Very slight double pop at the start of playback (first track only). Much softer than before.

4. No pop at stop of playback. 

Anecdotally, DSD noise seems to be softer, but so is DSD playback level overall. Noise is still there. 
*
This dac is a no-go for native DSD.* If you want to play many native DSD files, look elsewhere.

SQ overall seems unaffected by firmware update. That’s a good thing! For the price (and even for three times the price) you’ll struggle to find a better PCM dac, let alone dac/amp combo.

There you have it. Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## MelonHead

Many thanks for the pictures VIlmo! 
I don't want to bother the other fellow owners with my noobie question, therefore I will send my former questions via PM.

@gLer: thanks for the detailed review of the firmware upgrade. I'll do that tomorrow. If anything is different than your experiences, I'll comment it here.


----------



## MelonHead

MelonHead said:


> Many thanks for the pictures VIlmo!
> I don't want to bother the other fellow owners with my noobie question, therefore I will send my former questions via PM.
> 
> @gLer: thanks for the detailed review of the firmware upgrade. I'll do that tomorrow. If anything is different than your experiences, I'll comment it here.


I still use my R2R-11 with native DSD playback, as cca. 50-60% of my SACD files are not affected by the "hiss" plague.


----------



## volikovvv

VilMo said:


> Andrew, it seems to me that in your circumstances you will be very well served by an AC iPurifier (iFi audio). I still cannot take the smile out of my face for the last two weeks since the AC iPurifier arrived. It vastly improved the dynamics and reduced the noise floor in my system. Now music emerges from completely black background. Jaw dropping really for me. I cannot recommend it enough. I have used/tried quite a few iFi products with mixed results. AC iPurifier exceeded expectations by a mile. Fair to say - I like it a lot☺️
> Edit: to answer more directly some of your questions:
> Yes, power cables do make a difference with R2R11. The power cable I use is in my signature. My guess is however that the AC iPurifier will make bigger difference.
> Regarding Jitterbug, my exerience is similar to yours. I sold it.


Today for five hours I tried to buy in my country "iFi  AC IPurifier," they are simply nowhere to be found and ordered through local stores is not possible, only one distributor in our country is, and the support of IFI says you should go there. Contacted with them and offered them full prepayment for order and the answer - we can not help you.


----------



## VilMo

volikovvv said:


> Today for five hours I tried to buy in my country "iFi  AC IPurifier," they are simply nowhere to be found and ordered through local stores is not possible, only one distributor in our country is, and the support of IFI says you should go there. Contacted with them and offered them full prepayment for order and the answer - we can not help you.


Sorry to hear that


----------



## volikovvv (Jun 5, 2018)

How do you think is it worth to buy used furutech cable for 95$ for r2r-11
https://www.olx.ua/obyavlenie/furutech-g-320ag-18-e-silovoy-setevoy-kabel-IDz5Zv8.html#eb2bff52b2
Instead of IFI AC IPurifier? As far as i understand they will sell in our country in july-august for aprox. 150$-160$ , and i don't even know is one enough or no. But i don't know what this furutech cable provide to me My soul wants upgrade to eliminate this silent interference.


----------



## FredA

VilMo said:


> Here are some pictures of the Cat7 DC cable that I use and the twin USB Forza cable.
> The free USB side goes to the PC/USB source and it is Data only (+ground).
> I hope it helps.


Nice.

Buy some heatshrink off ebay and get rid of the tape.


----------



## FredA

volikovvv said:


> Today for five hours I tried to buy in my country "iFi  AC IPurifier," they are simply nowhere to be found and ordered through local stores is not possible, only one distributor in our country is, and the support of IFI says you should go there. Contacted with them and offered them full prepayment for order and the answer - we can not help you.


Don't you have amazon?


----------



## norrest (Jun 6, 2018)

gLer said:


> Anecdotally, DSD noise seems to be softer, but so is DSD playback level overall. Noise is still there.


how much noise? Is he so disgusted? How is the quality of DSD playback?
*Can reproduce  DSD better on D-77?*


----------



## norrest

What does Kingwa write? Will these problems be eliminated at all?


----------



## gLer

norrest said:


> how much noise? Is he so disgusted? How is the quality of DSD playback?
> *Can reproduce  DSD better on D-77?*


Hi - DSD playback is excellent, as long as the files you're playing don't have any low-level noise during playback. This affects most of my DSD files that have sections with low or no sound, like classical music and soft acoustic music. The worst so far is Amber Rubarth's Sessions from the 17th Ward SACD, which is unplayable on this dac. That said, if DSD is not a factor for you, or if you're happy to convert DSD to PCM (most software does this on the fly), then the R2R-11 is just about the best amp/dac combo I've heard under $1000.

The D77 is a fully balanced Sabre dac that costs 3x the price of the R2R-11. It will give you a totally different sound profile. I haven't heard it myself but Sabre days generally don't have any issues with DSD playback. Even the Audio-Gd NFB-11 (same price as R2R-11) will give you perfect noise-free DSD playback. It's only the R2R-11, as far as I know. that has the DSD issue, which is why I no longer play native DSD with it.


----------



## gLer

norrest said:


> What does Kingwa write? Will these problems be eliminated at all?


He claims the issue is related to the R2R-11 being a NOS dac. As far as I can tell this is not true, because PCM has no issues at all. Personally I don't believe this issue will ever be resolved with the R2R-11. Most people don't care because they don't listen to DSD. If DSD is very important to you, my suggestion is *not* to buy this product. But if you can live without DSD, you'll struggle to find a better dac/amp combo even at 2x or 3x the price (especially, if like me, you can hear - and prefer - the musical difference between delta sigma and ladder dacs).


----------



## volikovvv

FredA said:


> Don't you have amazon?


No shipping to ukraine from Amazon.


----------



## VilMo (Jun 6, 2018)

FredA said:


> Nice.
> 
> Buy some heatshrink off ebay and get rid of the tape.


Do you REALLY think this is more than cosmetic difference?
There is Mundorf SilverGold solder in there.


----------



## FredA

VilMo said:


> Do you REALLY think this is more than cosmetic difference?
> There is Mundorf SilverGold solder in there.


it make for a more durable construction. I often use tape as well  and always heatshrink, but just regular silver solder these days.


----------



## MelonHead (Jun 7, 2018)

gLer said:


> OK guys, here’s the scoop on the *new R2R-11 firmware* you’ve all been patiently waiting for.
> 
> TL;DR - it’s mostly good, excellent if you’re not playing native DSD. But just know it’s an improvement, not a total fix.
> 
> ...


The upgrade is done on my unit, so let me add my thoughts to yours.

The process was not as easy as I had been thinking. The implementation of the covering plate is very tight, and doesn't come off easily. On the other hand, we had to bend the connector pins a little to connect the upgrade cable head to the two connectors, as a capacitor blocks the way in some degree. After this, the upgrade took not more than a few minutes, but has to be applied on both connectors!
I can second, that there is almost no pop sound using PCM tracks. If there is any it's barely noticeable.
Regarding native DSD playback: I think the pops get a bit louder than before, and I can hear two pops when I change the track manually. One smaller when the songs stops and a second stronger when the new track starts. Luckily it appears only when I start an album or manually change tracks.
Native DSD hiss noise remains the same by me in the affected tracks.
The overall amplification seems to be weaker than it was before the firmware upgrade, as I have to turn the volume knob to 1 o'clock instead of my standard 12 o'clock setting.
It's interesting but the sound seems to be slightly but noticeably more three dimensional and natural than before, as well as the clarity is a little bit even better to me. When I started my first test, I had to double-check whether my desktop speakers were on duty or my headphones. Yesterday I thought, my perception was some kind of placebo, but today I experienced the same shift in the overall characteristics of the sound.
All-in-all, it was a worthy upgrade for me.


----------



## Nickol (Jun 7, 2018)

Kind all day!
*Could you check?*:
Do you hear any difference in hearing(?) when playing *DSD128* records with the setting by locating Native DSD
http://prntscr.com/js2gq8

And then the same song (but just rearrange setting on the PCM)
http://prntscr.com/js2haw
(we get the decoding of the DSD to PCM "on the fly")

The player on which it needs to be checked - download the link (portable version): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ITfTExU7jDZUfazwc7-J_I23Vlg_6Ur6
just download it, unpack it and get to these settings:
http://prntscr.com/js2fm8

http://prntscr.com/js2fz8

http://prntscr.com/js2gci


----------



## Bruc3

Hi guys,

I noticed this website here:
http://en.audio-gd.com

Any issues with me buying from there instead of via the regular http://www.audio-gd.com website?

As http://en.audio-gd.com allows me to place an order online directly without having to email for invoice.


----------



## Bruc3

Also I noticed the R2R 15 is much cheaper than R2R 11, but looking at specs they look identical.

Why is R2R 11 so much more expensive? Is is much better?


----------



## Gambitek

R2R 11 = Built in 2 groups DA-8 R-2R . R2R-15 just has 1 I think.


----------



## Bruc3

Gambitek said:


> R2R 11 = Built in 2 groups DA-8 R-2R . R2R-15 just has 1 I think.



Ah ok so it does have some hardware difference. Thanks.

But has anyone heard both and can tell how the sound compares?

In the end I care more about the sound than the specs.

But being a $100~ difference for me in Australia, the R2R15 is looking mighty tempting.


----------



## Gambitek

No idea, sorry. All I can say is I vastly preferred my R2R-11 to my NFB 11.28.


----------



## sennsay

Gambitek said:


> No idea, sorry. All I can say is I vastly preferred my R2R-11 to my NFB 11.28.


I had an interesting exercise last night, using my QP1R as a source via optical out into the R2R and with three different headphones, Senn HD540 Ref1s; Senn HD6xx and Senn HD250 Linear 1s  - all using the same Mogami cable, I prefer the SQ of the USB input (via Jitterbug and Kimber USB cable/kable) over the optical input. The exact reverse of the Schiit stack. Now that the R2R is based in my new lounge system, where it sounds brilliant with the Yamaha HS8 studio Monitors, I miss it already - even though it's only a week old! - from the laptop system. Maybe I ought to buy another one ......


----------



## FredA

Bruc3 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I noticed this website here:
> http://en.audio-gd.com
> ...


Contact Kingwa to see if this website is legit. It's not even linked on audio-gd's website.


----------



## thisisnotaboutagirl

crowally said:


> *NFB-11.28 *(http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/NFB1128EN.htm)
> or
> *R2R 11 *(http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm)?
> 
> What would you say?



11.28 is no slouch and you'd be happy with that if you're a tad strapped for cash. R2R will pretty much set you for most headphones that don't need a speaker amp to drive them.


----------



## xLoud

Anyone checked 11.38?


----------



## Nickol (Jun 9, 2018)

Did you hear about?: https://darko.audio/2018/06/audio-gds-r2r-11-is-another-350-r-2r-dac/
Compare about this: https://darko.audio/2018/06/airist-audios-r-2r-dac-350-via-massdrop/


----------



## gLer

Nickol said:


> Did you hear about?: https://darko.audio/2018/06/audio-gds-r2r-11-is-another-350-r-2r-dac/
> Compare about this: https://darko.audio/2018/06/airist-audios-r-2r-dac-350-via-massdrop/


Airist is a dac only. R2R-11 is an all in one with a powerful amp, for the same price! R2R-11 is an easy winner here.


----------



## joostdh

There is a lot of controversy over the Massdrop / Airist R2R dac because of accusations the board design has been copied from a diy design from two years ago. I’m just mentioning it here and certainly not picking sides. There are many places the controversy can be discussed rather than here. 

In the Massdrop x Airist thread, in the second post user Project86 does briefly bring up Audio-GD as another sub $500 R2R dac with discrete resistors but he described the R2R 11 as “pretty awful in my experience”.


----------



## MarkArtz

joostdh said:


> In the Massdrop x Airist thread, in the second post user Project86 does briefly bring up Audio-GD as another sub $500 R2R dac with discrete resistors but he described the R2R 11 as “pretty awful in my experience”.


LMAO! Every person has a right to express his/her own "personal opinion." Nobody has to take a perfect stranger's opinion as fact. I know I don't, otherwise you'll end up living someone else's ideas.
I own and had owned many amp/dacs over the years and I think the Audio GD R2R 11 is a fine device. Its the one I use the most. I love Schiit audio products as well, especially their new Lyr 3, but I think the Audio GD R2R 11 is a great amp/dac.


----------



## joostdh

Indeed, it won’t take away from my enjoyment of the R2R 11. I just wanted to note the comment as the first to made by someone who has heard both the Audio-gd and the Massdrop R2R.


----------



## Nickol (Jun 9, 2018)

joostdh said:


> In the Massdrop x Airist thread, in the second post user Project86 does briefly bring up Audio-GD as another sub $500 R2R dac with discrete resistors but he described the R2R 11 as “pretty awful in my experience”.



This is the person who at hte begining became popularity and rating on the forums, and after that he has long been living making who needs profitable reviews for payment.
An order was received from the Massdrop (or someone there), the task is to "make" the review and drop it on the forum/s, which would arouse confidence and at the same time tarnish the competitor - here you are, welcome! This is an old, long-standing tactic of corrupt and already distant, unfortunately from the objectivity of people.


----------



## joostdh

Nickol said:


> This is the person who at hte begining became popularity and rating on the forums, and after that he has long been living making who needs profitable reviews for payment.
> An order was received from the Massdrop (or someone there), the task is to "make" the review and drop it on the forum/s, which would arouse confidence and at the same time tarnish the competitor - here you are, welcome! This is an old, long-standing tactic of corrupt and already distant, unfortunately from the objectivity of people.



Rather than assume the writer accepts payment for reviews I will just presume that his review is his opinion and that is fine. He can have his, I have mine. 

With my experience, ears and budget I am more than happy with the R2R 11. That’s all I need to know. I don’t even need to presume anything about anyone else.

There is a lot of negativity going around and I want no part of it.


----------



## FredA

joostdh said:


> Rather than assume the writer accepts payment for reviews I will just presume that his review is his opinion and that is fine. He can have his, I have mine.
> 
> With my experience, ears and budget I am more than happy with the R2R 11. That’s all I need to know. I don’t even need to presume anything about anyone else.
> 
> There is a lot of negativity going around and I want no part of it.


Same here. Love my audio-gd stuff.  Schiit makes also good products. I heard the Uber Bifrost. Nice dac.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Nickol said:


> This is the person who at hte begining became popularity and rating on the forums, and after that he has long been living making who needs profitable reviews for payment.
> An order was received from the Massdrop (or someone there), the task is to "make" the review and drop it on the forum/s, which would arouse confidence and at the same time tarnish the competitor - here you are, welcome! This is an old, long-standing tactic of corrupt and already distant, unfortunately from the objectivity of people.



What thas dis even miin?


----------



## DW75

Your English is no better, monkeyfist_78.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

DW75 said:


> Your English is no better, monkeyfist_78.



Majbe tads wi mi nah onderstood?
I'm froom sweeden


----------



## FredA

monkeyfist_78 said:


> What thas dis even miin?


This just means we are trying to understand why anyone in its right mind would designate  the r2r 11 as bad equipment while every honest person we know has the greatest respect for it, for the hard working and friendly genius who designed it and his loyal employees who assemble it for our greatest benefit. No, they are not pefect, but they are good people. 

The internet is full of shills. In the times we are in, things will go wrong for dishonest persons. Just hoping your are just expressing your truly felt opinion and wish you get whatever you deserve, i won't be the judge. While i am at it, i will state my only interest in the matter: that honest, talented and hard working people be recognized for what they are and that they be thanked with great respect.


----------



## DW75

I will say that I am super impressed with the customer service from Audio-GD. I ended up buying a C-2 (2017 Edition) headphone amp from them a couple days ago. This will be used to drive my Beyerdynamic Amiron Home and Audioquest Nightowl Carbon headphones. I asked for a total price shipped, and Kingwa gave me a response in less than an hour. I had a couple questions about the NFB-11.28, and R2R 11, and he gave a response about those within a couple hours as well. I am rather excited to try out the C-2. It should be shipping in the next couple days.


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> I will say that I am super impressed with the customer service from Audio-GD. I ended up buying a C-2 (2017 Edition) headphone amp from them a couple days ago. This will be used to drive my Beyerdynamic Amiron Home and Audioquest Nightowl Carbon headphones. I asked for a total price shipped, and Kingwa gave me a response in less than an hour. I had a couple questions about the NFB-11.28, and R2R 11, and he gave a response about those within a couple hours as well. I am rather excited to try out the C-2. It should be shipping in the next couple days.


Wait to see what you get for your money. 

In case you don't know, by default, all audio-gd pre or hp amp short the unselected inputs, thus  totally eminating crosstalk. Most audio equipment are fine with this. But in case of doubt, see the user manual to learn how to install jumpers to disable this feature.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

FredA said:


> This just means we are trying to understand why anyone in its right mind would designate  the r2r 11 as bad equipment while every honest person we know has the greatest respect for it, for the hard working and friendly genius who designed it and his loyal employees who assemble it for our greatest benefit. No, they are not pefect, but they are good people.
> 
> The internet is full of shills. In the times we are in, things will go wrong for dishonest persons. Just hoping your are just expressing your truly felt opinion and wish you get whatever you deserve, i won't be the judge. While i am at it, i will state my only interest in the matter: that honest, talented and hard working people be recognized for what they are and that they be thanked with great respect.


 
I just felt that why should a reviewer:

1. Take a bashing for making a living and that without the accuser having hard facts.

2. Having an opinion. If it's god or bad, that's their opinion.

Whats up with the karma stuff?


----------



## FredA (Jun 10, 2018)

monkeyfist_78 said:


> I just felt that why should a reviewer:
> 
> 1. Take a bashing for making a living and that without the accuser having hard facts.
> 
> ...


If that is your unbiased (meaning not monetized) opinion, that's good. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. As for karma, or getting what you deserve, that's life. Just thought it was worth mentioning, just in case. Otherwise, i value freedom of speech. Love my r2r 11 anyway. To put in context, those guys on the other forum have got on my nerves. When i see a newcomer stating bad things about a product I appreciate while reviewing a direct competitor, i have the reaction i have. It has become a reflex. Good for you that your were just doing  your reviewing job, good for your karma.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

FredA said:


> If that is your unbiased (meaning not monetized) opinion, that's good. Everone is allowed to have an opinion. As for karma, or getting what you deserve, that's life. Just thought it was worth mentioning, just in case. Otherwise, i value freedom of speech. Love my r2r 11 anyway. To put in context, those guys on the other forum have got on my nerves. When i see a newcomer stating bad things about a product I appreciate while reviewing a direct competitor, i have the reaction i have. It has become a reflex. Good for you that your were just doing  your reviewing job, good for your karma.



Ok, now your lost.


----------



## MarkArtz (Jun 10, 2018)

FredA said:


> If that is your unbiased (meaning not monetized) opinion, that's good. Everone is allowed to have an opinion.


Very well said. There are too many reviewers everywhere nowadays (youtube, reddit, facebook, etc), the competition is tough and the ones that get well paid know it so they try to please, not the reader, but the sponsor which is the one that matters to them. Opinions dont make a living, a good ad does


----------



## FredA

MarkArtz said:


> Very well said. There are too many reviewers everywhere nowadays (youtube, reddit, facebook, etc), the competition is tough and the ones that get well paid know it so they try to please, not the reader, but the sponsor which is the one that matters to them.


Exactly. Makes me sick. Very common in the automotive domain as well.


----------



## starcraft2

Guys, 

I never tried any of these but I am considering the R2R 11 as my new DAC.

As anyone compared it with more traditional dacs like rega dac or audiolab m-dac?


----------



## FredA

Got my ifi ac purifier tonight. One hour ago, to be accurate. 

In my setup, i have a first powerbar/conditioner that feeds the class-d monoblocks, the Schiit wyrd and and a 500VA isolation tranfo (balanced), which itself feeds a linear supply for the singxer f-1, the r2r 7, the master-1 and the nfb-1amp. I put the ifi purifier on the first powerbar. 

First impressions are a mixed bag: 

The good:
1. Blacker background which adds clarity to intruments at the back of the stage. No emphasis, just more clarity. 
2. Better spatialization.
3. More relaxed 
4. Better micro-dynamics

The bad

1. The sound might have gotten too polite.
2. Macro-dynamics seem to suffer a bit, there is a lack of slam, attacks are softer in general

To early to state a verdict. The ifi is brand-new.


----------



## MelonHead

starcraft2 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I never tried any of these but I am considering the R2R 11 as my new DAC.
> 
> As anyone compared it with more traditional dacs like rega dac or audiolab m-dac?


I've had a chance to test the Audiolab M-dac briefly, which was not a bad DAC at all. Its resolution suffered a bit in that very setup.
I don't say that the R2R-11 is the king of the hill in this category as newer delta-sigma, or more expensive ladder DACs can bring you more detail - maybe too much sometimes-, but it has such an analogue, lifelike, presence-full presentation which is hard to beat in its price class and the detail is also very good. 
Audio will be always a matter of personal taste, but I'm almost sure, you won't regret the R2R-11, if you prefer to enjoy the sheer music and not analyzing tracks, and native DSD playback is not indispensable for you .


----------



## Nickol

Kind all day!
*Could you check?*:
Do you hear any difference in hearing(?) when playing *DSD128* records with the setting by locating Native DSD
http://prntscr.com/js2gq8

And then the same song (but just rearrange setting on the PCM)
http://prntscr.com/js2haw
(we get the decoding of the DSD to PCM "on the fly")

The player on which it needs to be checked - download the link (portable version): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ITfTExU7jDZUfazwc7-J_I23Vlg_6Ur6
just download it, unpack it and get to these settings:
http://prntscr.com/js2fm8

http://prntscr.com/js2fz8

http://prntscr.com/js2gci


----------



## Nickol

Maybe this question was already here, but somebody tried or could hear more about Audio GD *NFB-11.38* ?

or, maybe, is there already a part of forum about it?


----------



## sumpao

Nickol said:


> Maybe this question was already here, but somebody tried or could hear more about Audio GD *NFB-11.38* ?
> 
> or, maybe, is there already a part of forum about it?




I own 1 NFB11.38 it sound great what is your question 

I never own 11.28 or R2R 11

But I think the improvement between three of this should not be more than 10-20 % it just sound signature different.

I would upgrade to R2R dac in the near 2-3 year future waiting for the technology to sustain

DAC improvement is very big step this past five year.


----------



## FredA

starcraft2 said:


> Guys,
> 
> I never tried any of these but I am considering the R2R 11 as my new DAC.
> 
> As anyone compared it with more traditional dacs like rega dac or audiolab m-dac?


My friend used to have a m-dac. He now has my old Master-7. For him, it's not comparable. The r2r-11 is not so far behind so you should like it if you value an analog sound, tonal accuracy and a flat response.


----------



## FredA

sumpao said:


> I own 1 NFB11.38 it sound great what is your question
> 
> I never own 11.28 or R2R 11
> 
> ...


Yes, dacs are getting much better.


----------



## Bruc3

Gambitek said:


> R2R 11 = Built in 2 groups DA-8 R-2R . R2R-15 just has 1 I think.



Guys I am getting closer to deciding between the R2R11 and R2R15 but really hoping someone has heard both and can compare?

As the R2R15 is about  $130 cheaper here in Australia vs the R2R11 which is significant price difference.

Also what is the DA-8 and why is having 2 better than 1?


----------



## ProLoL

One group for each channel.


----------



## starcraft2

FredA said:


> My friend used to have a m-dac. He now has my old Master-7. For him, it's not comparable. The r2r-11 is not so far behind so you should like it if you value an analog sound, tonal accuracy and a flat response.



Dear FreadA,

You mean the M-Dac is better overall but the R2R 11 is more analog like so it might suit better someone's preference?

My system is very flat and transparent BTW.


----------



## FredA (Jun 13, 2018)

starcraft2 said:


> Dear FreadA,
> 
> You mean the M-Dac is better overall but the R2R 11 is more analog like so it might suit better someone's preference?
> 
> My system is very flat and transparent BTW.


No, what i mean't was the Master-7 has a clear edge over the m-dac. The  r2r-11 is closer to it than the m-dac.


----------



## VintageFlanker

sumpao said:


> I own 1 NFB11.38 it sound great what is your question


You mean the new limited edition one?

It should be available in France next week, but only very few units (announced 100 units worldwide...)


----------



## gLer

New R-28 announced. Impressions thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-r-28-impressions-thread.882043/


----------



## tskeng

Received my NFB-11.38!

I'm so not used to desktop dac/amp. By turning the volume dial just a little, its already quite loud. I can't even reach the 10-2 sweet spot!


----------



## dlmorgan999

tskeng said:


> Received my NFB-11.38!
> 
> I'm so not used to desktop dac/amp. By turning the volume dial just a little, its already quite loud. I can't even reach the 10-2 sweet spot!


What headphones are you using?  Also what source are you feeding it with?


----------



## tskeng (Jun 14, 2018)

dlmorgan999 said:


> What headphones are you using?  Also what source are you feeding it with?



I'm using the Meze 99 Classics. According to the site, it says:
"Sensitivity: 103dB at 1KHz, 1mW".
"Impedance: 32 Ohm".

Received my Massdrop plus not long ago, going to test it out soon.

Edit: Forgot to add. Via USB to my desktop. Running Foobar and 192 kHz Flacs.


----------



## dlmorgan999

Yeah - that's pretty sensitive.  Maybe you can turn down the source volume? (like if you are feeding it from a PC, for example).    Anyway - congratulations on the purchase!  I thought about ordering one, but I've been buying too much stuff over the last month, so I'll have to pass on this.  I'm quite happy with my R2R-11 though!


----------



## tskeng (Jun 14, 2018)

dlmorgan999 said:


> Maybe you can turn down the source volume?



WHY have I not thought about that!?!?!

I'm such an idiot!

Update: Set the volume to 5% on my Foobar. Now I'm able to turn the dial to 10 o'clock. YES!
Update 2: So something chimed on my desktop. Its still at 100% loudness. Now my eardrums are blown off.


----------



## dlmorgan999 (Jun 14, 2018)

tskeng said:


> Update 2: So something chimed on my desktop. Its still at 100% loudness. Now my eardrums are blown off.


I think what you want to do is leave the Foobar volume at full and turn down the overall Windows volume (or whatever operating system you are using). I believe that when I first installed the Amanero drivers, the volume was set to 100 in Windows.  I normally run it at around 70-80.


----------



## ProLoL

Run via asio and bypass windows mixer volume.


----------



## tskeng

dlmorgan999 said:


> I think what you want to do is leave the Foobar volume at full and turn down the overall Windows volume (or whatever operating system you are using). I believe that when I first installed the Amanero drivers, the volume was set to 100 in Windows.  I normally run it at around 70-80.



It doesn't do anything when I adjusted the Amanero sliders in Windows. (Windows 10 Ultimate).



ProLoL said:


> Run via asio and bypass windows mixer volume.



I'll figure that out!


----------



## monkeyfist_78

tskeng said:


> Received my NFB-11.38!
> 
> I'm so not used to desktop dac/amp. By turning the volume dial just a little, its already quite loud. I can't even reach the 10-2 sweet spot!



L or H gain?


----------



## FredA

monkeyfist_78 said:


> L or H gain?


The Meze are so sensitive. Not surprised.


----------



## Anaz

tskeng said:


> I'm using the Meze 99 Classics. According to the site, it says:
> "Sensitivity: 103dB at 1KHz, 1mW".
> "Impedance: 32 Ohm".
> 
> ...



Get an iFi Ear Buddy or iFi IEMatch if you want to use the Mezze 99 and MD+ with your 11.38 because both are too sensitive to get enough movement on the volume pot, even at low gain. ...I'm talking from experience: I have an R2R 11 (which has the same amp as your 11.38), a MD+ IEM, an iFi Ear Buddy, and also had a 99 Neo.  Also, the 2 Ohm output impedance of the Audio-gd R2R 11/ NFB 11 is too high for the MD+ without one of the iFi accessories I mentioned.


----------



## tskeng (Jun 16, 2018)

monkeyfist_78 said:


> L or H gain?



L gain.



Anaz said:


> Get an iFi Ear Buddy or iFi IEMatch if you want to use the Mezze 99 and MD+ with your 11.38 because both are too sensitive to get enough movement on the volume pot, even at low gain



The 2 Ohm OI part I'm aware. So I'm going to use the MD+ with my iFi xDSD on-the-go.



Anaz said:


> the 2 Ohm output impedance of the Audio-gd R2R 11/ NFB 11 is too high for the MD+ without one of the iFi accessories I mentioned.



So you're saying that getting the Ear-Buddy or IEMatch will improve the sensitivity situation I'm having?

Update: I got the IEMatch. Set it to "Ultra" and indeed allowed the volume dial to go up!

Thanks for the tips fellas!


----------



## USAFPharm86 (Jun 16, 2018)

Hello.

Just wanted to post these questions here and see if anyone had any recommendations.

I received my Audio GD R2R 11 Monday, June 11th and it has been burning in for maybe 120 hours so far now.

Purchased the Audio GD in hopes to find a musical amp/dac that would help with my ear fatigue, usually this fatigue comes from high treble/shouty mids.

Out of the box the R2R sounded muffled and lacked dynamic sound. Everything sounded as if it was behind a veil, I wasn’t impressed. Also using my Sennheiser HD6XX my ear fatigue seems worse now with the R2R. Maybe something to do with the mids.

So after reading this forum and emailing Audio Gd I decided to burn it in for a week and see if the sound changed. At 100 hours I added an ifi AC Purifier and Pangea Audio AC-14 powercord, thought this might help, but still no improvement in sound.

Today I ran my old Schiit Magni amp purchased in 2012 through RCA to my R2R, used the Magni as the amp, and the sound opened up and was much more dynamic. I was shocked at the improvement. Ear fatigue was also decreased some as well. I prefer to not add my Magni, just want the best from the R2R. 

My questions are should I add an Schiit Eitr to my setup and a ifi SPIDF Purifier for optical use? Will this clean up the dynamics and improve the sound? If any other recommendations please let me know.

Also thought I might purchase a good power conditioner, but with no improvement with the AC purifier, this may be a waste.

Headphones used: Sennheiser HD6XX, Hifiman HE-400s, and Denon D2000.

Source: Spotify Premium through PC/Mac and Movies/TV shows when connected by optical to my TV.

If no luck with the improvement in sound I might have to sell it and look for another amp/dac.

Thanks so much for your help and information.


----------



## sennsay

USAFPharm86 said:


> Hello.
> 
> Just wanted to post these questions here and see if anyone had any recommendations.
> 
> ...


Hmm, that's not exactly a good start, is it. I know the R2R takes a long time to fully run in, but mine has performed better than that with the same headphones, with only two weeks of running in. My R2R would have around 150+ hours of running so far, maybe a bit more. One thing I have noticed is that I prefer the sound of the USB input over the optical, even with an incredibly pure and clean QP1R as a source at times. I'm having very good results used in the lounge system to play TV/movies etc, sometimes with optical out from the BluRay player and otherwise coax from the TV. 
The USB input via a Jitterbug/Kimber cable USB and MacBook Pro from iTunes sounds pretty damn fine! Even with the HD6xx that I have not been entirely happy with as a whole, not even from my Schiit stack, which is such a magic combo with the Senn HD540 Ref1s - the only team to do a disappearing act and vanish the hifi. 
My own R2R has actually increased noticeably more in it's dynamic expression with the HD6xx since I've turned it off a few times and then left it on again for long periods. This is an essential part of the burn-in process. The many parts in the R2R need to go to cold and then reheat again a few times, it's the same for almost all ladder DACs, the Yggdrasil being no exception! The same for the Mimby, if to a lesser extent. 
 I suspect, even more so now, that the HD6xx truly comes to life with a good tube amp and I'd like to use mine as such in the future. I've almost sold them several times in the last couple of months because overall, they haven't been anything like the musical gems the Ref1s have with the Schiit gear. Oh I've had some fine results with them and the R2R at times and for now they are staying in the family, so to speak. 
 I sincerely hope you can find a way to really enjoy your R2R, there are a number of folks who now use one as a hub in their main hifi system, myself included, it's certainly a versatile and fine sounding bit of kit.


----------



## USAFPharm86 (Jun 17, 2018)

Thanks man.

I have some Mod Audio Argon Mk3s on order right now, If the Argons don’t work out I might just sell a few of my old headphones for something brighter/faster/more dynamic to test with the R2R, maybe some DT1990 or even Focal Elears “per the wife’s approval” haha.

Thanks again.


----------



## sennsay

USAFPharm86 said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> I have some Mod Audio Argon Mk3s on order right now, so if I spend anymore money on audio equipment/headphones my wife might just kill me haha.
> 
> ...


No worries  From what I've read about the Elears though, they might be too warm for the R2R, polar opposites almost, to the Utopias. I understand the Clears may be the best balanced of the lot and given the $$, they are the only ..... well, almost only ...... headphones I would want to add to my collection for the time being  
I live well over 100km away from a really decent hifi store, so getting to hear more now is a bit of a journey.


----------



## USAFPharm86

Does anyone own the Sennheiser HD660s, HD700, or Beyerdynamic DT1990 to pair with the R2R 11? 

Since my HD6XX are causing ear fatigue with the R2R (probably mid related), I plan to try a different headphone to test the fatigue issues. 

Treble bothers me on some headphones,  but the louder upper mid range of the HD6XX is causing some crazy fatigue on the R2R 11. Maybe a higher treble headphone will be toned down on the laid back sound of the R2R? 

Any other recommendations would be awesome. 

Just looking for something smooth sounding with great clarity and dynamics. Budget would probably be $500 or less. 

Thanks again.


----------



## DW75

You should consider using the R2R 11 as just a DAC, and upgrading your amp. The C-2 2017 Edition stand alone amp from Audio-GD is a big upgrade from the amp in the R2R 11. I actually bought the C-2. I will have it on Monday.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C22015/C22015EN.htm


----------



## DW75

Oh, and if you don't want a different amp, I would suggest buying the Amiron Home headphone. This headphone is very smooth sounding. It is completely different from every other current higher end Beyer headphone, and not bright at all.

https://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic...18912&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=amiron+home&psc=1


----------



## sennsay

USAFPharm86 said:


> Does anyone own the Sennheiser HD660s, HD700, or Beyerdynamic DT1990 to pair with the R2R 11?
> 
> Since my HD6XX are causing ear fatigue with the R2R (probably mid related), I plan to try a different headphone to test the fatigue issues.
> 
> ...


Have you tried moving the internal jumper over to the 'warm' setting? The HD6xx are a little forward on my R2R as well, and, also more forward than the original HD650s I used to have six or seven years ago. I sold _them_ quite happily as well, the HD6xx have come close ..... _very_ close ... to the same fate. It's those stock pads, both the Brainwavz HM5s and the Dekoni Elite Velour relieve the HD6xx of all spikiness in the upper mids and lower treble ..... they also relieve the headphones of varying levels of life too! The HM5s being the worst for that in my systems, although both HM5s and the EVs are vastly more comfortable to my ears. In saying that, if you have a lean and bright amp or DAC/amp, then these pads could well be ideal!


----------



## gLer

USAFPharm86 said:


> Does anyone own the Sennheiser HD660s, HD700, or Beyerdynamic DT1990 to pair with the R2R 11?
> 
> Since my HD6XX are causing ear fatigue with the R2R (probably mid related), I plan to try a different headphone to test the fatigue issues.
> 
> ...


Just goes to show how important synergy is between amp and headphone. I’d go as far as saying it’s the most important consideration when choosing either. I personally love the R2R-11 with my headphones (see sig); didn’t mind it with the HD650 (6XX) but it definitely didn’t do much to lift the Sennheiser veil. 

If you find your mids a bit too shouty, maybe try the Elear, which has a slight upper mid/lower treble dip that actually works very well to subdue the higher registers of shouty female vocals, but does so without losing too much sparkle in the upper treble. You should be able to pick up a good used pair for ~$500 on HF.

Also, have you tried setting the ‘warm’ jumper on your R2R-11? Check the user manual on the AGD website on how to do this. Could change the sound signature more to your liking. 

Personally I’d swap out the 6XX before I swap out the R2R-11; I’m not a fan of that headphone, but YMMV.


----------



## DW75

As an Amiron Home owner, I can definitely recommend it. It is a very detailed headphone, without any hint of treble fatigue. It is not bright at all. You can hear everything that is present in the recording. Soundstage is very impressive, as is imaging. I think you would be very impressed with this headphone. This headphone is actually one of the recommended upgrades from the HD650/HD6XX/HD600. It just does everything better.


----------



## sennsay

gLer said:


> Just goes to show how important synergy is between amp and headphone. I’d go as far as saying it’s the most important consideration when choosing either. I personally love the R2R-11 with my headphones (see sig); didn’t mind it with the HD650 (6XX) but it definitely didn’t do much to lift the Sennheiser veil.
> 
> If you find your mids a bit too shouty, maybe try the Elear, which has a slight upper mid/lower treble dip that actually works very well to subdue the higher registers of shouty female vocals, but does so without losing too much sparkle in the upper treble. You should be able to pick up a good used pair for ~$500 on HF.
> 
> ...


Yes, I too have had a hard time coming to grips with the HD6xx/650. The best I ever heard my HD650s was with a TRI TRV-4SE tube preamp and my highly upgraded Silicon Chip headphone amp - complete with Black Gate and Nichicon Muse caps, the quietest non-inductive resistors I could buy at the time and audio-gd's excellent Earth HDAM in place of the opamp first stage (I still have several versions of this amp, from stock to highest upgrade and YES, the difference is worth the effort). I used my FrankenZero DAC into the preamp and the results were stunningly good, I just had to give the tube preamp back to the dealer after a couple of days! The HD650s were so utterly and deliciously smooth, involving, detailed and 'present' with this set up. I've never heard them anything like that good since. Nor the HD6xx. They might have gone really well with my ex Valhalla 2 amp and Amperex tubes on board, but I sold that amp to buy the Mimby and it was an excellent trade up! The Magni 3 being quite superior to the more expensive Valhalla 2 with the Ref1s. 
 I have never found my HD6xx to be veiled in the slightest, they are actually better than the HD650s I had. They do come to life with the R2R in my system here though, but they certainly do not have the synergy of my goto Schiit/Senn Ref1 system. I have struck the finest balance in many years with that match up. I still hear great things of the HD650/6xx and Little Dot MkIII SE tube amp, maybe it really is that tubes and those cans do balance nicely together, I'd like to try it one day.


----------



## FredA

USAFPharm86 said:


> Thanks man.
> 
> I have some Mod Audio Argon Mk3s on order right now, If the Argons don’t work out I might just sell a few of my old headphones for something brighter/faster/more dynamic to test with the R2R, maybe some DT1990 or even Focal Elears “per the wife’s approval” haha.
> 
> Thanks again.


Too bad. The ac purifier has me rather unimpressed as well after a week. 

Usb cable normally need burn-in and and they can have an impact on the sound signature. A silver cable i bought first made my system too bright. Today, it works fine. I would give another a try to the blue cable supplied with the dac/amp if i were you. Other than that, i would state that the r2r 11 works best with neutral headphones. I tried the K553, the MDR-7506 and HE560 with it. They all work fine.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 17, 2018)

FredA said:


> Too bad. The ac purifier has me rather unimpressed as well after a week.
> 
> Usb cable normally need burn-in and and they can have an impact on the sound signature. A silver cable i bought first made my system too bright. Today, it works fine. I would give another a try to the blue cable supplied with the dac/amp if i were you. Other than that, i would state that the r2r 11 works best with neutral headphones. I tried the K553, the MDR-7506 and HE560 with it. They all work fine.


The MDR-7506 you say, eh, are they alive and communicative with the R2R? They are not expensive cans and I've looked at them myself, just casually. I haven't even used my MDR-1Rs with the R2R yet, must get onto that.


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> The MDR7506 you say, eh, are they alive and communicative with the R2R? They are not expensive cans and I've looked at them myself, just casually.


Yes. Only the treble is a little unrefined for classical. Otherwise, great match.


----------



## FredA

With the k553, bass is not as good, it's not as neutral either  but you get a very nice soundstage, and smooth enough highs for classical.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> With the k553, bass is not as good, it's not as neutral either  but you get a very nice soundstage, and smooth enough highs for classical.


I have done very little in the way of classical music with the R2R so far, though it certainly sounds really good with movie soundtracks in the main system, very clean and clear. I've had no experience with AKG cans at all, other than listen to a brand new set briefly in a store a little while ago. A top closed back model above the popular 50 series, I liked their neutrality and general clarity and an un-hyped bass response.


----------



## starcraft2

Anyone compared these two with smsl m8 or topping d30?


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> I have done very little in the way of classical music with the R2R so far, though it certainly sounds really good with movie soundtracks in the main system, very clean and clear. I've had no experience with AKG cans at all, other than listen to a brand new set briefly in a store a little while ago. A top closed back model above the popular 50 series, I liked their neutrality and general clarity and an un-hyped bass response.


Any obvious bass exageration is a deal-breaker for me. I got rid of the 99 Classics because of that.


----------



## USAFPharm86

sennsay said:


> Have you tried moving the internal jumper over to the 'warm' setting? The HD6xx are a little forward on my R2R as well, and, also more forward than the original HD650s I used to have six or seven years ago. I sold _them_ quite happily as well, the HD6xx have come close ..... _very_ close ... to the same fate. It's those stock pads, both the Brainwavz HM5s and the Dekoni Elite Velour relieve the HD6xx of all spikiness in the upper mids and lower treble ..... they also relieve the headphones of varying levels of life too! The HM5s being the worst for that in my systems, although both HM5s and the EVs are vastly more comfortable to my ears. In saying that, if you have a lean and bright amp or DAC/amp, then these pads could well be ideal!



Thanks for the info. Massdrop actually has the Dekoni Sennheiser pads on sale right now, so I purchased the velour pads yesterday. They may kill the sound, so we will see when they arrive. I have read that moving the jumper cable to the warm setting takes a lot of life out of the R2R, so I plan to try the dekoni pads first, if no luck then just sell my HD6XX. 

Also thanks everyone for the recommendations on headphones for the R2R. I have researched the AKG K553 pro in the past and might have to buy a pair to test. The Beyerdynamic Amiron Home also look good, just comfort issues with my Beyerdynamic DT990 in the past led me to sell them. Maybe the higher end Beyerdynamics are more comfortable.


----------



## FredA

The k553 do not have so much punch, they are a little soft, the bass is not the deepest, but isolation, comfort are top notch and soundstage, for a closed design, is great. If you are after budget hp, this is hard to beat. The he-560 can be had for under 400 usd last time i checked, but they have quality issues. The only drawback combined with the r2r 11 is the bass is not as deep as it could be, other than this, great match. Classical sounds just great. All style of music are well rendered.


----------



## Gambitek

Been tinkering with "warm" jumpers on my R2R-11 with my Auteurs. It makes a lot of tracks sound better...but some not so much. Yarrrgh.


----------



## DW75

Hey USAFPharm86, the Amiron Home is an extremely comfortable headphone. It does not have a tight clamp at all.


----------



## USAFPharm86

DW75 said:


> Hey USAFPharm86, the Amiron Home is an extremely comfortable headphone. It does not have a tight clamp at all.



After doing some research the Amiron Home look to be my perfect headphone, great sound signature for my music/media tastes. Has anyone tried/tested these with the R2R 11? 

After issues with the sound of the R2R 11 and HD6XX, today I decided to break out the Hifiman HE-500 and they sounded great. The sound opened up and dynamics increased compared to the 6XX. No ear fatigue with the HE-500. The only problem with the Hifiman HE-500 is the weight, I can only use for maybe 30 minutes and they go back in there case. Maybe I will sell the Hifiman HE-500 (never use) and HD6XX and purchase some Amiron Homes. 

I also plan to run my old Matrix M-Stage from 2012 by RCA to the R2R 11 and see if that improves the sound/decreases ear fatigue of the HD6XX. 

Someone also recommended sending the R2R 11 back to Audio GD and getting the NFB 11.38, but I have read in the forum that there really isn't much difference in the R2R 11 and NFB 11. If anyone owns both please let me know. I also think that sending the R2R 11 back would be a big headache, so I will probably keep it and try a different amp or headphones. 

In closing, does anyone run one of Audio GDs higher end amps with the R2R 11 as a DAC? This maybe my next step if I decide not to go with the Amiron Homes. 

Thanks, 

James


----------



## DW75

The 11.28 uses the ES9028 DAC chip. The 11.38 uses the superior ES9038 DAC chip. I will definitely message you though after I get the C-2 amp and let you know how it is with my Amiron Home.


----------



## sennsay

USAFPharm86 said:


> Thanks for the info. Massdrop actually has the Dekoni Sennheiser pads on sale right now, so I purchased the velour pads yesterday. They may kill the sound, so we will see when they arrive. I have read that moving the jumper cable to the warm setting takes a lot of life out of the R2R, so I plan to try the dekoni pads first, if no luck then just sell my HD6XX.
> 
> Also thanks everyone for the recommendations on headphones for the R2R. I have researched the AKG K553 pro in the past and might have to buy a pair to test. The Beyerdynamic Amiron Home also look good, just comfort issues with my Beyerdynamic DT990 in the past led me to sell them. Maybe the higher end Beyerdynamics are more comfortable.


I've a good mind to have one more go with the HD6xx and go for a Massdrop Dekoni pads deal again(!), as the Elite Velour have not been as successful as I thought they might be, thinking they might balance out the issue I have with the Senns and the Schiit stack. Nope. Beautifully comfortable they are, sonically magical they are not. Too warm and dampening some of the life of the music, yet could be just fine with leaner gear, maybe the O2 DAC and amp and some of the amps I used to like ......... now there's a thought, I do actually have an amp or two that could do with some warming. 
So, maybe the Elite Hybrid pads - looking at the Dekoni frequency graphs - will basically leave the upper mids and highs alone, while dampening the lower treble peak I don't like. It was the lack of linear bass extension I particularly didn't like about the HD6xx. They are improved with the R2R, yet still a little pushy and forward, while being a little better balanced than with the Mimby/M3, as good as they _can_ sound like with certain tracks. 
 It's a given, of course, that these are only my experiences and may not be someone else's


----------



## sennsay

USAFPharm86 said:


> After doing some research the Amiron Home look to be my perfect headphone, great sound signature for my music/media tastes. Has anyone tried/tested these with the R2R 11?
> 
> After issues with the sound of the R2R 11 and HD6XX, today I decided to break out the Hifiman HE-500 and they sounded great. The sound opened up and dynamics increased compared to the 6XX. No ear fatigue with the HE-500. The only problem with the Hifiman HE-500 is the weight, I can only use for maybe 30 minutes and they go back in there case. Maybe I will sell the Hifiman HE-500 (never use) and HD6XX and purchase some Amiron Homes.
> 
> ...


You might like to give the Dekoni pads a go. They most certainly dampen down any fatiguing edge ... sometimes too much for me (the Elite Velour) and the bass extension increases all the way from the lower mids/upper bass on down. It's a relatively cheap way of finding out if you still want to keep the HD6xx. 
If you want to check out the Dekoni graphs available here on Head-Fi, you'll get a good idea of which parts of the frequency range is affected by the different pad designs. I thought the EVs would be ideal, but no, it's too much for my gear - mostly, Katie Melua sounds wonderful. The Elite Hybrid pads change the mid/treble balance a lot less than the EVs, by the looks of it.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 17, 2018)

Since these Dekoni pads have been mentioned a couple of times, here is the pdf from Dekoni via this site. Hope it uploads ok.


Hmm, it doesn't seem to be showing here, so you'll have to look it up yourselves on this site, cheers.


----------



## USAFPharm86 (Jun 18, 2018)

sennsay said:


> You might like to give the Dekoni pads a go. They most certainly dampen down any fatiguing edge ... sometimes too much for me (the Elite Velour) and the bass extension increases all the way from the lower mids/upper bass on down. It's a relatively cheap way of finding out if you still want to keep the HD6xx.
> If you want to check out the Dekoni graphs available here on Head-Fi, you'll get a good idea of which parts of the frequency range is affected by the different pad designs. I thought the EVs would be ideal, but no, it's too much for my gear - mostly, Katie Melua sounds wonderful. The Elite Hybrid pads change the mid/treble balance a lot less than the EVs, by the looks of it.



Definitely will give the dekoni pads a try before I sell the HD6XX. Already ordered through Massdrop, but I don’t think they ship till July. Once I get them I will post again with sound impressions using the R2R 11. If they help with the fatigue that will be awesome, hopefully not too much of a clarity/soundstage loss. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## DW75

Audio-GD currently has a 5% off deal happening.

http://www.audio-gd.com/En audio-gd.htm


----------



## maheeinfy

DW75 said:


> Audio-GD currently has a 5% off deal happening.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/En audio-gd.htm


anyone know if they have sales like this often?


----------



## JaMo

maheeinfy said:


> anyone know if they have sales like this often?



Based on 10 years history.... I am pretty sure You also will have a chance around X-mas/new years holiday.

/Jan


----------



## DW75

I am totally blown away by how good the C-2 2017 Edition amp is that I got today. This is my first experience with Audio-GD. I can't say enough good things about the company. Every single question I asked Kingwa about several pieces of equipment they offer was answered within 2 hours or less. I am super impressed.


----------



## gLer

DW75 said:


> I am totally blown away by how good the C-2 2017 Edition amp is that I got today. This is my first experience with Audio-GD. I can't say enough good things about the company. Every single question I asked Kingwa about several pieces of equipment they offer was answered within 2 hours or less. I am super impressed.


Hi - congrats on your new amp. Not sure if this is the right thread to discuss it, but we welcome your impressions. Let us know what you like about it compared to other gear you’ve heard.


----------



## DW75

I put up a quick impression in the NFB1/C-2 thread.


----------



## gLer

USAFPharm86 said:


> Definitely will give the dekoni pads a try before I sell the HD6XX. Already ordered through Massdrop, but I don’t think they ship till July. Once I get them I will post again with sound impressions using the R2R 11. If they help with the fatigue that will be awesome, hopefully not too much of a clarity/soundstage loss. Thanks again for the help.


If anything the Dekoni pads will be slightly thicker/firmer and improve the soundstage. In my experience the 6XX has one of the narrowest soundtages of any headphone I’ve heard, so it can only go wider. As for clarity, not sure if the pads will help with the veil, but if you’re getting pads with leather in them, very possibly. Best of luck and look forward to your impressions.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 19, 2018)

gLer said:


> If anything the Dekoni pads will be slightly thicker/firmer and improve the soundstage. In my experience the 6XX has one of the narrowest soundtages of any headphone I’ve heard, so it can only go wider. As for clarity, not sure if the pads will help with the veil, but if you’re getting pads with leather in them, very possibly. Best of luck and look forward to your impressions.


Hmm, that narrow stage is improved a bit by the use of the Mogami cable, more openness all round. I cannot say that I hear any veil at all using the HD6xx with the R2R, they are certainly a little 'brighter' and more forward than I remember the HD650s to be several years ago. I am almost loathe to buy yet another set of pads for the HD6xx, I have three sets of pads now and while I don't particularly like the stock pads - the other two being far more comfortable - the stock ones are more alive with the R2R, the others more suited to brighter and leaner electronics, I feel. I will be trying this theory out shortly  I wish I _could_ use the HM5 and/or Elite Velour with the R2R, but alas they dampen some of the life and top end detail, while removing that forward and occasionally shouty upper mid/lower treble, depending on the recording. The Mogami cable has been the most useful adaption so far with any of my gear, especially in lessening that pinched soundstage and alleviating some of that sometimes shouty edge. The stock cable does not help with any of this, although it is not a 'bad' cable as such. It does however colour the sound balance in the same way with both my Ref1s and HD250 Linear headphones, although they seem less prone to shout with it. Just my own experiences, of course 
BTW A really great thing about the Dekoni pads is that to my surprise, they came with pad rings attached. Just pull of the stock pads and clip in the new ones and ta-dah!


----------



## DW75

Has anyone put up their impressions of the NFB-11.38 Limited Edition ? I am interested in hearing about how people are liking the ES9038 in it.


----------



## sumpao

DW75 said:


> Has anyone put up their impressions of the NFB-11.38 Limited Edition ? I am interested in hearing about how people are liking the ES9038 in it.



It sound quite good. I have bright sound signature. It reproduce most detail I ever hear.
It drive my HD600 in a good way.

I also pair this with marantz mm7025 to drive my ELAC B5 and it sound quite  goods.

Versatile products in this price range NFB11.38 do their job quite well.


----------



## Bruc3

HD6xx best to pair with nfb 11.28 or r2r11?

Please give me some of your experiences.


----------



## USAFPharm86 (Jun 19, 2018)

Bruc3 said:


> HD6xx best to pair with nfb 11.28 or r2r11?
> 
> Please give me some of your experiences.



Hello. I have only owned the HD6XX for a few weeks now and the R2R 11 for one week.

So far I am not enjoying the combo, mids sound extremely forward and only notice a small increase in soundstage. The mids are so forward I am getting ear fatigue. Some users love this combo, but for my sound signature preferences, I do not enjoy the HD6XX with the R2R 11.

No experience with the nfb 11.28, but it may produce more clarity and sound better with the HD6XX. The R2R 11 has a more musical sound. From going through the 100 pages on this forum, most users that own both say they sound almost the same. 

I plan to sell the HD6XX and keep the R2R 11, the dac is amazing and amp is good as well. If you love the HD6XX sound, I would upgrade to a high end tube amp.


----------



## DW75

Hey USAFPharm86, I still think you should ask Kingwa about what you would be looking at to return your R2R 11, and seeing if you could pay the difference to upgrade to the NFB-11.38 Limited Edition. It is only 419 US, so not that much more than the R2R 11. It has the ES9038 in it, which should be far more articulate, and give you the more neutral sound signature you are looking for.


----------



## sumpao

DW75 said:


> Hey USAFPharm86, I still think you should ask Kingwa about what you would be looking at to return your R2R 11, and seeing if you could pay the difference to upgrade to the NFB-11.38 Limited Edition. It is only 419 US, so not that much more than the R2R 11. It has the ES9038 in it, which should be far more articulate, and give you the more neutral sound signature you are looking for.




I own the NFB11.38 I combo it with my HD600 what i can tell is the sound is bright to the point if someone who love warmer sound would not like this combo

Sound stage is ok.

High is ok due to I can pinpoint more detail in the song


----------



## Bruc3

USAFPharm86 said:


> Hello. I have only owned the HD6XX for a few weeks now and the R2R 11 for one week.
> 
> So far I am not enjoying the combo, mids sound extremely forward and only notice a small increase in soundstage. The mids are so forward I am getting ear fatigue.
> 
> If you love the HD6XX sound, I would upgrade to a high end tube amp.



Well I love my HD6XX and will change any amp/dac before I change these headphones.

I already think the HD6XX vocals are forward as is and for some songs (e.g. Norah Jones) vocals are bit too forward so doesn't sound like I would like the R2R11 pairing. Thanks for your feedback.

Yeah I am considering tube amp (Valhalla 2) or tube hybrid (Cavalli Tube Hybrid)  at the moment.


----------



## sumpao

Bruc3 said:


> Well I love my HD6XX and will change any amp/dac before I change these headphones.
> 
> I already think the HD6XX vocals are forward as is and for some songs (e.g. Norah Jones) vocals are bit too forward so doesn't sound like I would like the R2R11 pairing. Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> Yeah I am considering tube amp (Valhalla 2) or tube hybrid (Cavalli Tube Hybrid)  at the moment.




Matching is very important here so hope you find a good matching and tell us.

I think in other forum they tell what is good match for HD6xx


----------



## Bruc3

sumpao said:


> I own the NFB11.38 I combo it with my HD600 what i can tell is the sound is bright to the point if someone who love warmer sound would not like this combo



I use to think I was a treble head until I owned the HD6XX and now I definitely prefer warmer headphones so NFB might not be the way for me to go then, looks like I need to invest in a Tube amp then.


----------



## USAFPharm86

DW75 said:


> Hey USAFPharm86, I still think you should ask Kingwa about what you would be looking at to return your R2R 11, and seeing if you could pay the difference to upgrade to the NFB-11.38 Limited Edition. It is only 419 US, so not that much more than the R2R 11. It has the ES9038 in it, which should be far more articulate, and give you the more neutral sound signature you are looking for.



I plan to just upgrade headphones to a DT1990 or Amiron Home to pair with the R2R 11 in the next few weeks. I think it’s an amazing amp/dac, just not enjoying the combo with the HD6XX. I have only owned the HD6XX for a few weeks now and the sound just isn’t for me. Thanks again.


----------



## sennsay

USAFPharm86 said:


> Hello. I have only owned the HD6XX for a few weeks now and the R2R 11 for one week.
> 
> So far I am not enjoying the combo, mids sound extremely forward and only notice a small increase in soundstage. The mids are so forward I am getting ear fatigue. Some users love this combo, but for my sound signature preferences, I do not enjoy the HD6XX with the R2R 11.
> 
> ...


I would agree with your experiences re HD6xx and R2R-11, however, if you are using stock pads PLUS stock cable that mid forwardness is accentuated! Both of them push the mids and lower treble forward (that peak!). As mentioned here a number of times, I use the Mogami cable (you can buy it from Venus Audio on eBay, I made my own with Mogami 2893 mini quad cable) and that smooths (somewhat) the mid and treble, while extending the bass, filling out below the slight mid-bass lift. Also, the stage is opened up in a more 3D manner, although nowhere near as much as my beloved HD540 Ref1s. 
 The cheapest way forward for you - that's if you like the HD6xx at all! - may be to buy a set of the Dekoni pads, preferably the Elite Hybrid or fenestrated sheepskin versions, they seem to smooth that lower treble area without touching the upper reaches and extend the bass. They are also far more comfortable than the stock pads. The Elite Velour pads I bought dampen down the upper mids and top end too much for me, but you might absolutely love it like that. I have struggled with these headphones too (Again! After owning HD650s several years back), having almost sold them several times in the last 3 months, only the Mogami cable and R2R have saved them ..... so far. I'm not totally convinced, but may keep them until I gain a decent tube amp again, though not the Valhalla 2, been there, done that. I Ioved it for a while, but with the upgraded Ref1s, the Magni 3 outperformed it significantly. 
Strangely ... or not .... the best results I've had with both the HD650 and the HD6xx are running them from a full size home amp, even with an old 20W Pioneer integrated they performed remarkably well with the vinyl input.


----------



## DW75

USAFPharm86 said:


> I plan to just upgrade headphones to a DT1990 or Amiron Home to pair with the R2R 11 in the next few weeks. I think it’s an amazing amp/dac, just not enjoying the combo with the HD6XX. I have only owned the HD6XX for a few weeks now and the sound just isn’t for me. Thanks again.



The Amiron Home will blow your doors off. It is an upgrade to the HD6XX in every way.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 20, 2018)

DW75 said:


> The Amiron Home will blow your doors off. It is an upgrade to the HD6XX in every way.


They look nice, have great reviews too, but too many $$ for me at this time  Maybe they are something to look forward too ..... or finally sell off the HD6xx!
I should get what I paid for them here. Unfortunately, I can't get to hear a pair of the Amiron Home's first, I'd have to buy blind.
Wotcha reckon, USAFPharm86, we're pretty much in the same boat here?
They are anywhere between $700 and $900 here in OZ, so pretty exy and I suspect we're kinda ripped off by the middle man. The HD6xx cost me just $279 all up, so the much more expensive Amiron Home would want to be a significant leap in SQ. I might just make my HD6xx work for me for now ...... or sell them and buy that new Elekit tube preamp I've been wanting for some time!


----------



## sumpao

Bruc3 said:


> I use to think I was a treble head until I owned the HD6XX and now I definitely prefer warmer headphones so NFB might not be the way for me to go then, looks like I need to invest in a Tube amp then.




I heard that you can jump the board to make sound warmer for NFB.
And I heard people say HD6xx have a warmer sound than 600

For me it is fine combo but the tremble is noticeable.


----------



## Anaz

Bruc3 said:


> Well I love my HD6XX and will change any amp/dac before I change these headphones.
> 
> I already think the HD6XX vocals are forward as is and for some songs (e.g. Norah Jones) vocals are bit too forward so doesn't sound like I would like the R2R11 pairing. Thanks for your feedback.
> 
> Yeah I am considering tube amp (Valhalla 2) or tube hybrid (Cavalli Tube Hybrid)  at the moment.


The HD 6XX paired with R2R 11 didn’t sound that good (hollow mids and lack of detail throughout the sound spectrum) and I wondered why people thought the HD 6XX/650 was a great pair of headphones. Then I bought a MCTH. Wow, the 6XX driven by the MCTH blew me away. (Source was an RME ADI-2 DAC).

The R2R 11 pairs extremely well with the Hifiman Sundara and HE 560 if anyone is interested in those headphones.


----------



## USAFPharm86 (Jun 20, 2018)

Hello again. Just had a question on adding another amp by RCA to the R2R 11 in the future.

Currently when using my old Matrix m-stage or Magni amp by RCA/dac out, I have to change the volume on both the amp and the R2R 11 to get the right balance in sound. I have tried switching from variable to fixed with no solution.

 If I upgrade the amp in the future, I would like to just use the amp volume knob to control the master volume. There must be something I’m missing, I probably need to do more research.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## USAFPharm86 (Jun 20, 2018)

Anaz said:


> The HD 6XX paired with R2R 11 didn’t sound that good (hollow mids and lack of detail throughout the sound spectrum) and I wondered why people thought the HD 6XX/650 was a great pair of headphones. Then I bought a MCTH. Wow, the 6XX driven by the MCTH blew me away. (Source was an RME ADI-2 DAC).
> 
> The R2R 11 pairs extremely well with the Hifiman Sundara and HE 560 if anyone is interested in those headphones.



Great to know the Hifiman Sundara pairs well with the R2R 11. Can I ask how you would describe the comfort? Also the sound with the R2R 11? 

I own the Hifiman HE-400s and Hifiman He-500, both pair well with the R2R 11, just can’t use for more than an hour and I have to switch headphones. Also upgraded the pads to the ZMF Ori’s, but still get a hot spot on the top of my head.

Thanks.


----------



## Anaz

USAFPharm86 said:


> Hello again. Just had a question on adding another amp by RCA to the R2R 11 in the future.
> 
> Currently when using my old Matrix m-stage or Magni amp by RCA/dac out, I have to change the volume on both the amp and the R2R 11 to get the right balance in sound. I have tried switching from variable to fixed with no solution.
> 
> ...


There is a “jumper” inside the R2R 11 to enable fixed line level output - by default, the switch at “fixed” is actually variable. See the R2R 11 user manual page on the Audio-gd website for how to change the jumper.


----------



## USAFPharm86

Anaz said:


> There is a “jumper” inside the R2R 11 to enable fixed line level output - by default, the switch at “fixed” is actually variable. See the R2R 11 user manual page on the Audio-gd website for how to change the jumper.



Thanks for this info. I’ll check the Audio GD website. 

This may be a a dumb question, but if you open the R2R 11 will this void any warranty? Also, don’t even know if it has a warranty haha. 

Thanks again.


----------



## Anaz (Jun 20, 2018)

USAFPharm86 said:


> Great to know the Hifiman Sundara pairs well with the R2R 11. Can I ask how you would describe the comfort? Also the sound with the R2R 11?
> 
> I own the Hifiman HE-400s and Hifiman He-500, both pair well with the R2R 11, just can’t use for more than an hour and I have to switch headphones. Also upgraded the pads to the ZMF Ori’s, but still get a hot spot on the top of my head.
> 
> Thanks.


I think comfortwise the Sundara is on par with the older Hifiman headband style on the HE 560 which is that same as on your headphones (I’ve read initial complaints about the Sundara because the earpiece doesn’t rotate about the vertical axis but I think most get accustomed to the fit).

Regarding the hotspot you’re getting, it’s strange because I don’t recall many people saying that about Hifiman headphones because they’re relatively light. A couple of things to try:
- try to place the headband strap on the flat (front to back) part of your head because ithe strap has no front to back curvature
- extend the earpieces a little more to relieve the tension at the top of your head
- carefully bend the headband to adjust the pressure on your ears

I hope this helps.


----------



## dlmorgan999

USAFPharm86 said:


> Thanks for this info. I’ll check the Audio GD website.
> 
> This may be a a dumb question, but if you open the R2R 11 will this void any warranty? Also, don’t even know if it has a warranty haha.
> 
> Thanks again.


This page shows how to set the jumper.  I presume that if they show you how to do this, and it requires opening the case, that there is no warranty issue but I can't say for sure. Also per the main page, all Audio-GD products have a 10-year warranty.


----------



## Anaz

USAFPharm86 said:


> Thanks for this info. I’ll check the Audio GD website.
> 
> This may be a a dumb question, but if you open the R2R 11 will this void any warranty? Also, don’t even know if it has a warranty haha.
> 
> Thanks again.


No I don’t think so because of the instructions to change the jumper. 

by the way, my jumper was fixed in place at the default position with a couple of drops of glue so be patient when you first try to take it out. You can then use a piece of Bluetac to secure the jumper in place. (Hot, melted wax is good as well, but it hurts if you use your finger to put it over the jumper LOL)


----------



## USAFPharm86

Anaz said:


> I think comfortwise the Sundara is on par with the older Hifiman headband style on the HE 560 which is that same as on your headphones (I’ve read initial complaints about the Sundara because the earpiece doesn’t rotate about the vertical axis but I think most get accustomed to the fit).
> 
> Regarding the hotspot you’re getting, it’s strange because I don’t recall many people saying that about Hifiman headphones because they’re relatively light. A couple of things to try:
> - try to place the headband strap on the flat (front to back) part of your head because ithe strap has no front to back curvature
> ...



I think the hotspot is related to me trying to bend the 400s headband in the past to adjust the pressure around my ears. I bent it back to the normal position and now more clamping force on the earcubs and less pressure on the top of my head. I don’t think I can win or my head just doesn’t like hifiman headphones haha.

The old headband on the Hifiman HE-500 does not cause this hot spot, I think the comfort issues probably come from the weight.

I might look into getting a ZMF pilot pad to see if this increases the comfort.

Thanks again.


----------



## USAFPharm86

Anaz said:


> No I don’t think so because of the instructions to change the jumper.
> 
> by the way, my jumper was fixed in place at the default position with a couple of drops of glue so be patient when you first try to take it out. You can then use a piece of Bluetac to secure the jumper in place. (Hot, melted wax is good as well, but it hurts if you use your finger to put it over the jumper LOL)



Thanks. I see the pictures/instructions on the Audio GD site. I’ll open the R2R tonight and see if the jumper is easy to move. Might be going with bluetac then haha. 

Thanks again.


----------



## FredA

USAFPharm86 said:


> Hello again. Just had a question on adding another amp by RCA to the R2R 11 in the future.
> 
> Currently when using my old Matrix m-stage or Magni amp by RCA/dac out, I have to change the volume on both the amp and the R2R 11 to get the right balance in sound. I have tried switching from variable to fixed with no solution.
> 
> ...


The max volume and fixed volume of the r2r-11 could be too much the  amps, in which case the sound would be distorted.  On the other end, you amps could perform not so well with low level signal. They are not necessarily meant to be used with low-level signals. If you have those 2 problems, you have to use both knobs. Or at least to set the r2r 11 to a value you know works well and then only use the amp volume.


----------



## elira

FredA said:


> The max volume and fixed volume of the r2r-11 could be too much the  amps, in which case the sound would be distorted.  On the other end, you amps could perform not so well with low level signal. They are not necessarily meant to be used with low-level signals. If you have those 2 problems, you have to use both knobs. Or at least to set the r2r 11 to a value you know works well and then only use the amp volume.



Fixed volume in low gain is 1V which is around what you would expect from a DAC. High gain is 2.5V which is a little over. For example Schiit DACs have a 2V output. The max variable output is 5V which is too much. So fixed output low gain should be good for most cases.


----------



## gLer

elira said:


> Fixed volume in low gain is 1V which is around what you would expect from a DAC. High gain is 2.5V which is a little over. For example Schiit DACs have a 2V output. The max variable output is 5V which is too much. So fixed output low gain should be good for most cases.


Actually 2V is the standard output for a dac. 1V is a little low, 2.5V is fine but not ‘standard’. Anything higher can be an issue if your amp can’t handle the power. Most balanced amps can easily handle the standard 4V output from a balanced dac.


----------



## conquerator2

Since starting the R2R11 thread  I've been enjoying the little guy immensely and see no reason to part with it any time soon nor replacing it. This thing is just stupid good for the money


----------



## gLer

conquerator2 said:


> Since starting the R2R11 thread  I've been enjoying the little guy immensely and see no reason to part with it any time soon nor replacing it. This thing is just stupid good for the money


It most certainly is. You’d have to spend three times the money to buy something that, on paper, looks to be the natural upgrade as a discrete R2R all-in-one, the R-28, and the law of diminishing returns means you’re not getting three times the quality - just a more refined, more flexible, more powerful version of the same idea. R2R-11 is easily the best value all-in-one under $1k imo.


----------



## conquerator2

gLer said:


> It most certainly is. You’d have to spend three times the money to buy something that, on paper, looks to be the natural upgrade as a discrete R2R all-in-one, the R-28, and the law of diminishing returns means you’re not getting three times the quality - just a more refined, more flexible, more powerful version of the same idea. R2R-11 is easily the best value all-in-one under $1k imo.


Indeed, I imagine the R2R28 to sound blacker and more refined (I haven't read any comparisons yet)  It has three times the chips and power, with a digitally controlled relay volume (which I love) and more connectors. However it's also bigger and while I am pretty sure it represents great value the R2R11 is indeed pretty darn good for 350 and small


----------



## ProLoL (Jun 26, 2018)

Guys, out of all the headphones I've used with the R2R11, the AKG K240DF EP is simply the best experience I've had with it, and quite cheap aswell.
Not HD800 nor the T1 gave me that pleasure like the K240DF EP gives with the R2R11.
I highly recommend trying this combo as this is my end game indeed.


----------



## sennsay

ProLoL said:


> Guys, out of all the headphones I've used with the R2R11, the AKG K240DF is simply the best experience I've had with it, and quite cheap aswell.
> Not HD800 nor the T1 gave me that pleasure like the K240DF gives with the R2R11.
> I highly recommend trying this combo as this is my end game indeed.


Ok, I've just watched a review on them and the reviewer absolutely loved them ....... except for the bass, which apparently was fast and accurate  .... if you don't mind any power with it, as in a fast roll off as well, though it is extended. So, how do they sound with the R2R? The midrange is apparently spectacularly brilliant, so is it forward (like the HD6xx) as well? Or just exceedingly natural, fast and smooth? They seem to be part of that earlier era clique that created great headphones, like my HD540 Refs etc.


----------



## ProLoL (Jun 26, 2018)

sennsay said:


> Ok, I've just watched a review on them and the reviewer absolutely loved them ....... except for the bass, which apparently was fast and accurate  .... if you don't mind any power with it, as in a fast roll off as well, though it is extended. So, how do they sound with the R2R? The midrange is apparently spectacularly brilliant, so is it forward (like the HD6xx) as well? Or just exceedingly natural, fast and smooth? They seem to be part of that earlier era clique that created great headphones, like my HD540 Refs etc.



The only review I've seen on the K240DF, that guy said that the bass is none existent and it's far from the truth, never felt like the bass is missing, especially with the R2R11 which gives a good impact in that region. The mid range is the magic here, best mid range I've heard. I'd describe the sound to be super natural and none hyped, as realistic as life gets  it delivers that unexplainable magic that takes you to places.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 24, 2018)

The reviewer I watched did say that the bass was quite extended, just very light in power. He _did_ say though, that he was using a Modi and Magni 2 and that amp may just have not had enough cohones to drive the 240DFs. Actually, they remind me of the response of the 600 ohm Senn HD430s, mine have very rolled bass too, though very clear mids and top end.
I'm delighted to hear you have found an 'end game' pairing! I have that with the Mimby/Magni 3/HD540 Ref1 set up. I would like to hear the K240DFs with the R2R myself though, maybe I need to hunt a pair out  ...... in fact, maybe I just need to re-assemble my HD430s first and see how they go with the R2R!


----------



## ProLoL

The senns have a different sound signature and I believe that they were at their peak at that time. What's the point in spending so much $$$ for something that doesn't make you feel the music, sure sounds clear though. For anyone wanting to try the 240DF with the R2R 11, listen to it for a week and it'll captivate you.


----------



## sennsay

ProLoL said:


> The senns have a different sound signature and I believe that they were at their peak at that time. What's the point in spending so much $$$ for something that doesn't make you feel the music, sure sounds clear though. For anyone wanting to try the 240DF with the R2R 11, listen to it for a week and it'll captivate you.


Agreed! I have no wanderlust for really expensive cans, I'd just like to hear the Focal Clear, is all  My focus now is on a new tube preamp that I can build after I get some surgery done.


----------



## sennsay

Tonight has been the first part of playtime with the Senn HD430SLs and the R2R. First of all with the HD250 leather pads and quite thick inner foams (they came with the pleather pads, originally, I didn't like them), it sounded pretty good though the s/stage was a tad narrow and I knew that these 'phones were clearer than this. I took the pleather pads off the HD540 Ref1s, complete with the DT880 inner foams that are 1/2 the thickness of the ones that came originally with the pleather pads and voila, clarity, openness and that wonderful way that the late 80's and 90's Sennheiser headphones had with a rhythm, always alive and on the money timing. I used the same terrific Willie Nelson/Wynton Marsalis album as I did a couple of nights ago and although there isn't the all encompassing immersion as with the Ref1s, the sound stage is excellent and with very good focus. The R2R is such a good headphone amp and DAC! It's also working very well as a DAC/preamp into the Yamaha HS8 monitors, Netflix movies are open, clear and with excellent clarity. 
 It looks like I'm going to have to order immediately another set of pleather pads and some spare inner foams, probably needing to buy a second set of the DT880 velour pads just to get them, at least they're cheap. I'm tempted to maybe just try the 'warm' setting on the R2R for a bit, but I really don't want to lose that clarity in the mids and top end either! Great to get some use from the HD430SLs, I prefer them now to the HD6xx, even if they don't have quite the weight in the bass, they're actually more transparent, the double bass on the aforementioned album being extremely clean and with very good detail so far. Looks like tomorrow will be a fun day


----------



## maheeinfy

Is there a consensus on how frequently R2R11 is upgraded

If i purchased it today, it wont be great to see an upgrade released within a month


----------



## monkeyfist_78

maheeinfy said:


> Is there a consensus on how frequently R2R11 is upgraded
> 
> If i purchased it today, it wont be great to see an upgrade released within a month



Upgrade or update?


----------



## FredA

maheeinfy said:


> Is there a consensus on how frequently R2R11 is upgraded
> 
> If i purchased it today, it wont be great to see an upgrade released within a month





maheeinfy said:


> Is there a consensus on how frequently R2R11 is upgraded
> 
> If i purchased it today, it wont be great to see an upgrade released within a month


Upgrades/updates with audio-gd are evolutive, never a night and day difference. They continuously improve their products, but the base stays the same for years in general. There should not be any very significant change to the r2r 11 for a couple of years


----------



## MelonHead

DW75 said:


> As an Amiron Home owner, I can definitely recommend it. It is a very detailed headphone, without any hint of treble fatigue. It is not bright at all. You can hear everything that is present in the recording. Soundstage is very impressive, as is imaging. I think you would be very impressed with this headphone. This headphone is actually one of the recommended upgrades from the HD650/HD6XX/HD600. It just does everything better.


One more vote for the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. I enjoy every single moment with the R2R-11 and Amiron Home combo, and never get fatigued with the sound. Even if just for fun and curiosity, I'm thinking on a valve amplifier, this setup, as the base of my listening chain will be with me for a few years for sure.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

sennsay said:


> The MDR-7506 you say, eh, are they alive and communicative with the R2R? They are not expensive cans and I've looked at them myself, just casually. I haven't even used my MDR-1Rs with the R2R yet, must get onto that.



The 7506 sounds awesona with the R2R 11, whom is an inexpensive DAC I might ad.


----------



## spacequeen7

ProLoL said:


> Guys, out of all the headphones I've used with the R2R11, the AKG K240DF is simply the best experience I've had with it, and quite cheap aswell.
> Not HD800 nor the T1 gave me that pleasure like the K240DF gives with the R2R11.
> I highly recommend trying this combo as this is my end game indeed.


This made me pull out my DT 880 Pro 250's,swapped pads to originals and I was very impressed what R2R11 can do with cheap cans ,totally different musical tonality ,from lack of bass to very satisfying-full impact and W shape it seams 
R2R can do wonders with some cans I guess


----------



## USAFPharm86

MelonHead said:


> One more vote for the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home. I enjoy every single moment with the R2R-11 and Amiron Home combo, and never get fatigued with the sound. Even if just for fun and curiosity, I'm thinking on a valve amplifier, this setup, as the base of my listening chain will be with me for a few years for sure.



Great post. My Beyerdynamic Amiron Home will be in tomorrow from Amazon, very excited to test with the R2R 11. Hopefully they will be the upgrade to the HD6XX I was looking for. If not at least Amazon has a good return policy haha.


----------



## DW75

You are in for a treat with the Amiron Home. You will hear details in music that you have never heard before. This headphone is very revealing, without showing any hint of harshness or being too bright. I am sure you will be impressed.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 25, 2018)

WOW! What the R2R has done for the Sennheiser HD430SLs! Listening right at this moment, using the stunningly fine Two Men With The Blues album, AIFF files from iTunes through the usual Jitterbug, Kimber cable to the USB input of the R2R. Talk about revealing, both the album and the R2R with these cans. They are a _little_ brightly lit mid-forward for my preference, but it's just their sonic sig, which is a different flavour to my goto HD540 Ref1s. Still using the Ref1s pads and inner foams for now, plus the Mogami cable, which allows some stunning detail and fine focus to be so easily available - there is a woman who sneezes at the beginning of Stardust that is so clear and focused in space, it alone is a revelation. Each note on the piano is dynamically clean and clear and never blurred with the next note, same goes for the knockout trumpet playing by Wynton Marsalis ........ make that for _every_ note on all instruments! While being a touch forward, the sheer clarity, definition and lack of harshness is  ..... well ... again a revelation. A couple of drum strokes on the snare right at the back of the stage are sublime in their crisp clarity and ambient space. Each string of the double bass plucked in twangy rich clarity, the lower notes of the piano lack sheer weight and therefore ultimate dynamics, yet the clarity is superb and any good pianist could tell you exactly what note was being played. On stage chatter is very clear and focused in space. Rhythmic integrity is as good as the Ref1s and that is really saying something! The HD430SLs just lack the sheer relaxing total 3D immersion of the Ref1s and are not as silky smooth through the mids, a tad less harmonic richness too, yet they have their own sonic benefits and that slightly more brightly lit upper region can benefit some music, although the Ref1s don't lack any ambient detail for that extra smoothness, they just portray it in a silkier darker space.
These HD430SLs are extremely enjoyable through the R2R ..... the clarity of each piano note is fantastic! Another reason why the HD6xx's stay in this household is becoming extremely tenuous ... again. I'm actually hearing some reverb on one of the drums I've never heard before. Vocal diction is knockout in it's definition, these would make - and probably were - fabulous studio monitors, just like the AKG K240DFs. What is it about these 600 ohm cans from the late 80's and into the 90's?
Ah, I've just clicked as to why the soundstage is not as big and 3D as the Ref1s, it's the bass depth. It's like adding a correctly set up sub-woofer in a home system. This same music on the Ref1s seems to extend right down into my chest (always has, even stock years ago) and extends the actual soundstage in perceived height as well as width, even to sounds appearing from behind my ears by, say, 10-15 degrees, the HD430SLs hint at it, keeping their admittedly crispy clear stage in a 180 degree arc over/through my head and to some degree in front. The drum solo at the end of the concert is mind boggling in it's attacking clarity and detail! Where the Ref1s have it is image density and sheer 3D solidity, the actual apparent physical weight of each voice and instrument ... but heck, what a pair these two make! Take a bow, Sennheiser, though I'm not sure you've done better since then for overall performance short of the very best you make.


----------



## sennsay (Oct 5, 2018)

With the HD430s and having a field day! There's just something extra special about the 600 ohm cans, get the right amp with them and they are magic. I've got Brubeck's Take Five on at the moment and it's the dynamic subtlety and range of the various strokes, whether it be on drums, piano, double bass or sax, that floors me. The different sounds from the drum kit is more expressive than I've heard on anything else. Buying this R2R has opened up a whole new world, to hear the ambient decay of the cymbals after the strike is riveting (The Mimby/Magni 3/Ref1s aside, being every bit as knockout in a slightly smoother blend).
 I swapped over - briefly! - to the HD6xx while listening to just recorded voice of a YT bulletin and the degradation of pure focused clarity after the 430s was almost horrifying  An open window compared to a somewhat grimy and sandy one.
I find that an amazing recommendation for the R2R, which, with the HD430s, has not the slightest trace of grain anywhere to be heard and a musical and organic flow and rhythm that not only belies it's price, but a lot of gear vastly more expensive that I remember hearing over the years.
 I can barely believe what I've been missing out on with Take Five at the moment, the whole recording is laid bare, while being totally alive.
King-wa, you're a legend, mate!


----------



## JaMo

maheeinfy said:


> Is there a consensus on how frequently R2R11 is upgraded
> 
> If i purchased it today, it wont be great to see an upgrade released within a month



Hi, 
Kingwa is usually very secret about his intensions and doings to the public. You have to live with the risk... If it is the R2R-11 You are about to buy, You will not regret it anyway.

/Jan


----------



## ProLoL

Every R2R dac that he'll make won't sound the same.. so even if you own the R2R11 it's a unique unit already. No body guarantees that you'd like the more expensive and capable dacs over the R2R11 dac.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> Every R2R dac that he'll make won't sound the same.. so even if you own the R2R11 it's a unique unit already. No body guarantees that you'd like the more expensive and capable dacs over the R2R11 dac.


Couldn't agree more. If your budget is in the the R2R-11 ballpark, you won't find a better dac/amp anywhere, from anyone, for the money. If your budget stretches much further, past the $1k mark, then you have a few options, the most compelling of which is the new R-28. All depends what you're after, and what you're willing to spend to get it.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 25, 2018)

JaMo said:


> Hi,
> Kingwa is usually very secret about his intensions and doings to the public. You have to live with the risk... If it is the R2R-11 You are about to buy, You will not regret it anyway.
> 
> /Jan


I'm certainly NOT regretting my decision to go for the R2R! Wow is this thing getting better and better and now that I've discovered how stunningly good the 600 ohm Sennheiser HD430s are with it, my admiration for King-wa and his creations have taken another big leap forward over and above respect. As a long time user of his brilliant Class A adjustable power supplies and a range of the excellent HDAMs I use in various gear, including my highly modded FrankenZero DAC, this absolute musical gem in the form of the R2R has a new 'old' headphone hero in the HD430s! Their capabilities leave the HD6xx sadly lacking and that journey of now having to start anew on my music collection has already taken hold, every one a revelation. A perfect companion for the Ref1s and the Schiit stack.


----------



## gLer

sennsay said:


> I'm certainly NOT regretting my decision to go for the R2R! Wow is this thing getting better and better and now that I've discovered how stunningly good the 600 ohm Sennheiser HD430SLs are with it, my admiration for King-wa and his creations have taken another big leap forward over and above respect. As a long time user of his brilliant Class A adjustable power supplies and a range of the excellent HDAMs I use in various gear, including my highly modded FrankenZero DAC, this absolute musical gem in the form of the R2R has a new 'old' headphone hero in the HD430SLs! Their capabilities leave the HD6xx sadly lacking and that journey of now having to start anew on my music collection has already taken hold, every one a revelation. A perfect companion for the Ref1s and the Schiit stack.


Sounds like you're getting great enjoyment from it, which is all that really matters in the end. How would you compare the sound go the R2R-11 to the Schiit stack by the way?


----------



## sennsay

gLer said:


> Sounds like you're getting great enjoyment from it, which is all that really matters in the end. How would you compare the sound go the R2R-11 to the Schiit stack by the way?


I cannot rate one above the other, I get as much sheer bliss/enjoyment/riveting involvement from both of them, just in slightly different ways. The Schiit stack, it's connecting silver ICs and QP1R source with the Ref1s are so utterly intimate and immersive, the gear dissolving away instantly in 3D space, that I can both be relaxed and musically excited by wicked rhythms at the same time, utterly satisfying. Not a trace of harshness, edge or grain sullies the experience. The very top end of the Ref1s is silky enough to be fractionally 'dark', yet there is no lessening of ambient detail for all that. I can easily hear right into the tail of decays fading into quiet blackness. Images have a physical density that sounds incredibly real and alive, even if not as ultimately with the very finest of micro-detailing, it's so alive that I don't care, I know it's a real live instrument or flesh and blood human voice because of it's 3D shape and mass. 
The R2R and HD430s are a different kind of revelation, yet relating to a similar sense of overall communicative reality. Both systems having stunning rhythmic flow and timing. The HD430s have the extra micro-detailing while having the house lights turned up a couple of notches. Ambient decay after the initial dynamic 'attack' is sublime, no other words for it really. Knockout  They lack the bottom end weight that goes right down into my chest and expands the soundstage as the Mimby/M3/Ref1s do, yet because with the R2R the transparency is so high, I can hear as far 'south' as I want to go in utter clarity. There is not a trace of grain or spitty edge here either, despite the brighter lit mid and top end, just astonishing clarity and focus. There is absolutely no blurring of notes from any instrument, something I find simply revelatory, none anywhere in the whole range, therefore being both slightly less relaxing than the Ref1 system, yet also non-fatiguing, I've been listening here for hours. Every album sounds like I've never really heard it before, there is a natural transparency and detail here that has me just shaking my head. I'm not listening to hi-fi systems, I am listening to and _feeling_ music in ways that I have not experienced in over 40 years of this fantastic 'hobby'. 
Both systems are like stepping into the recording studio or venue with the musicians, just that the a-gd/HD430 pair stops just beyond the glass wall of the studio admiring a great view and extremely clear sonic perspective, whereas the Schiit/Ref1 system steps further in and right amongst the musicians, utterly intimate and surrounded with the mass and weight of people and instruments, cigarette smoke, sweat, rubbing clothes, maybe even a whiff of wine or beer in the air. Intimate. Like .. LIVE! The Schiit stack with Ref1s is a _feeling experience, I dissolve into it; _the a-gd/HD430s steps back just a few feet, while never distant and allow me to hear a few details that fill in more of the gestalt, the complete picture.


----------



## gLer

sennsay said:


> I cannot rate one above the other, I get as much sheer bliss/enjoyment/riveting involvement from both of them, just in slightly different ways. The Schiit stack, it's connecting silver ICs and QP1R source with the Ref1s are so utterly intimate and immersive, the gear dissolving away instantly in 3D space, that I can both be relaxed and musically excited by wicked rhythms at the same time, utterly satisfying. Not a trace of harshness, edge or grain sullies the experience. The very top end of the Ref1s is silky enough to be fractionally 'dark', yet there is no lessening of ambient detail for all that. I can easily hear right into the tail of decays fading into quiet blackness. Images have a physical density that sounds incredibly real and alive, even if not as ultimately with the very finest of micro-detailing, it's so alive that I don't care, I know it's a real live instrument or flesh and blood human voice because of it's 3D shape and mass.
> The R2R and HD430s are a different kind of revelation, yet relating to a similar sense of overall communicative reality. Both systems having stunning rhythmic flow and timing. The HD430s have the extra micro-detailing while having the house lights turned up a couple of notches. Ambient decay after the initial dynamic 'attack' is sublime, no other words for it really. Knockout  They lack the bottom end weight that goes right down into my chest and expands the soundstage as the Mimby/M3/Ref1s do, yet because with the R2R the transparency is so high, I can hear as far 'south' as I want to go in utter clarity. There is not a trace of grain or spitty edge here either, despite the brighter lit mid and top end, just astonishing clarity and focus. There is absolutely no blurring of notes from any instrument, something I find simply revelatory, none anywhere in the whole range, therefore being both slightly less relaxing than the Ref1 system, yet also non-fatiguing, I've been listening here for hours. Every album sounds like I've never really heard it before, there is a natural transparency and detail here that has me just shaking my head. I'm not listening to hi-fi systems, I am listening to and _feeling_ music in ways that I have not experienced in over 40 years of this fantastic 'hobby'.
> Both systems are like stepping into the recording studio or venue with the musicians, just that the a-gd/HD430 pair stops just beyond the glass wall of the studio admiring a great view and extremely clear sonic perspective, whereas the Schiit/Ref1 system steps further in and right amongst the musicians, utterly intimate and surrounded with the mass and weight of people and instruments, cigarette smoke, sweat, rubbing clothes, maybe even a whiff of wine or beer in the air. Intimate. Like .. LIVE! The Schiit stack with Ref1s is a _feeling experience, I dissolve into it; _the a-gd/HD430s steps back just a few feet, while never distant and allow me to hear a few details that fill in more of the gestalt, the complete picture.


That’s an incredibly vivid description, I’m sure many users considering this comoabination of gear will benefit greatly. Don’t know if you’ve alluded to this before, but what happens when you switch headphones and sources (540 with R2R, 420 with Schitt)? I find that headphones make the biggest overall difference to the sound, but of course synergy with the source is very important. Keep enjoying!


----------



## sennsay (Jun 25, 2018)

gLer said:


> That’s an incredibly vivid description, I’m sure many users considering this comoabination of gear will benefit greatly. Don’t know if you’ve alluded to this before, but what happens when you switch headphones and sources (540 with R2R, 420 with Schitt)? I find that headphones make the biggest overall difference to the sound, but of course synergy with the source is very important. Keep enjoying!


Thank you, I enjoy writing. Yes, I have used the HD540 Refs with the R2R previously, but it wasn't very run in at all two or three weeks ago, it's had some hours on it since then and I have to say that the imagery has become more vivid - to use your excellent word  and transparent to the headphones used. I shall do part two of this story this evening, although I have used the HD430s with the Schiit system a couple of days ago and that same 'vividness' is quite apparent.
Currently, the HD430s are still running with the pleather pads and inner foams from the Ref1s, an admirable and very much alive pairing, as described in my last post. In fact I ordered a new set of the DT880 velour pads last night, the inner foams are the perfect thickness for the Ref1s and it seems the HD430s as well. The ones that come with the pleather pads are double the thickness and while testing them initially for a few minutes, quickly took them out and replaced them with the set from the Ref1s. The 5mm thick pads are detail thieves. 
 They (HD430s) are extremely comfortable and light on the head, hence my most enjoyable hours with them last night. The Mogami cable is completely transparent to whatever 'phones I use them with - I've made them for all my headphones now except the HE400S, a work in current progress - and act as a control.
The Ref1s did show their immersive aspects when I last used them with the R2R and I shall look forward to hearing what they sound like now.
 Speaking of the HE400S, they are good with both the R2R and Schiit stack, but don't get any better than that compared to the two Sennheisers. Amazingly, the HE400S still sound at their best straight out of the 'mere' 40mW Class A amp of the QP1R, where they are fantastic. Go figure.
 The HD6xx. Sigh. Remember the description in my last post of the studio and the two Senns? The HD6xx stand outside the glass in front of some studio monitors that are not flat in their response. Thicker in the bass, too forward - and not in the vividly transparent way of the HD430s! - are prone to occasionally shouty behaviour, still have that lower treble peak and lack truly focused transparency. I've heard better things from them with a couple of albums on the Schiit system, but overall, they simply do not provide the long term satisfying, riveting, thrilling and yet at the same time relaxing experiences with either of the far older Senns. I popped them on briefly last night and was almost shocked at the downgrade in focus and transparency. Grainy in comparison to the HD430s. I am a little sensitive to those who love their HD6xx/650s with the R2R and while I _have_ had some enjoyable moments with them, the others are far beyond them in what actually matters to me long term. Their stay in this household is becoming more tenuous. I might just sell them on, complete with the HM5 and Dekoni pads.
 Another aspect between the two systems that I have discovered so far is that the Amanero USB input is a step or two up on that of the Mimby, but seems to be the reverse when I use the QP1R via optical into both DACs, the Mimby's optical input being absolutely clean and alive. The R2R's not quite up there with the USB. Not a lot in it, subtle, yet noticeable. The R2R's Amanero USB input is the best I've come across yet, stunningly transparent when you use 'phones that will reveal it. Maybe the Version 5 USB input of the Yggy is better again, I don't know. And no, I haven't done the 5V pin blocking thing  Yet.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

So what is this?

https://web.capture-app.com/share/31d91ec4-7bd9-4708-9b7a-7b3fa954b0ca

Listen.


----------



## sennsay (Jun 26, 2018)

Part 2; swapping the headphones between the R2R and Schiit Mimby/Magni 3. No 1 test track is the brilliant Larry Carlton/Robben Forde album Live In Tokyo.
 The Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s; I am now even clearer that the Amanero USB input is superior to the optical input on the R2R, it's simply more transparent, 'faster' and more alive, better focused and with a cleaner ambient space. Using the QP1R as a source via optical out, it only reiterated my first findings from some weeks ago. The results using the fabulous track, Burnable, sounded thickened, a little more softened compared to how I'm used to hearing it with the Schiit stack. A bit too warm and close, lacking ambient room. The kicker on the drum sounded thickened, heavier than usual, top end lacked some sparkle on what is a strangely fizzy recording and the space between instruments and musicians and the audience lacks clarity. Bass guitar a bit heavy. Dynamics however were impactful and 40 seconds into the start of that track I was startled by the impact. Still, overall it was ok, but I got bored. I picked the QP1R plus cable and Ref1s back into the other room and connected into the Schiit system. Now we're talking! Alive, everyone has space, the rhythm immediately picks up it's heels, the kick drum's kicker can be heard to bounce of the skin, complete in it's own space, there is far more tonal expression, the signature sound of this system, the intention the musicians and_ how_ they are playing and why. Bass plummets deep yet with clarity. The HD430s lack that sheer weighty drive with this style of music, crystal clear yes, weighty driving rhythms not so much. With the sometimes very weighty Pure Heroine album from Lorde, I was bored, as clear as it was the thunderous low notes were rather lacking and a little sharpness to her voice came through that is completely not there with the Ref1s and Schiit stack. Also, the flesh and blood female tones of her voice were not carried out to her multi-tracked vocals at the sides of the soundstage, something that bothered me with the HD6xx as well, less defined extreme soundstage density.
 Ok, next, I load the album into the iTunes, I need to hear this through the Amanero input. Output is set to 24/96kHz in the Midi player, there is more life and drive, a little more organic nature with almost all music. Still with the Ref1s. Bloody Norah! What a difference! And, what a difference running this beastie in for another couple of hundred hours makes! Night and day, seriously! It allll comes to life. Pace, rhythm, timing, dynamic expression, bouncing kick drum kicker and all. Gone is the thickened sound field, now we have a concert! The Ref1s have come to life with the R2R now, every bit as rhythmic and tuneful as the Schiit system, terrific drive. This amp has some cohones! Noticeably, the Ref1s are easier to drive than the HD430s, on high gain I am at 11:30 on the dial, the bass is fantastic, deep and taut. I've just let the album play through while I'm writing. These Ref1s are just so balanced, they sound like they are flat from very low until right up to the mid treble area, just not flat in tonal expression or soundstage, which isn't _quite_ as 3D deep as the Schiit system. It doesn't reduce the enjoyment a jot. The bass is really _rather_ fantastic, organic and dynamic, the weight of the kick drum is a touch more so here than on the other system, I suspect that the onboard power supply of the R2R has more ergs available, so to speak, even though on paper the Magni 3 has more wattage into 600 ohms. It certainly seems to with the Ref1s, though the HD430s were pushing the volume control around to 4pm on a low level recording earlier this afternoon.
 On the 'Burnable' track, some eight minutes in, there is some seriously deep low bass guitar notes, followed by some amazing slapping, twanging, funking, wicked string bending happening, it is a little more expressively thrilling via the Schiit stack, I simply marvel at the quite brilliant playing, lost in it. Here, with the R2R I am not quite so awed, it's still wonderful musicianship, I am not wide-eyed or excited at heart as I usually am via the little silver boxes.
 Back to that brilliant Nelson/Marsalis album from last night, replayed now with the Ref1s instead. Beefy, solid, with the instrument weight that the HD430s lack, less brightly lit, the house lights have dimmed to a more relaxing late night level, closer, I've moved onto the stage with the musicians, wooden floor, the feedback speakers are nearer, a less spectacular clarity and with much closer intimacy. The piano has the weight in the bottom end it should do .... I grew up with one in the house with various musicians for years and have heard my brother play his over the years. I still love the amazing performance of the HD430s from last night, it was just a different view and if anything, the clarity of Willie's close miked voice was even clearer, purer. The weight and real sound of Ivory keys does sound quite gorgeous here and now, fabulous expression.
 Do I have a preference with the Ref 1s over which amp? Not really, the R2R sounds like it will never run out of power for any instrument, is just a smidge warmer in some ways - which suits the brighter and lighter HD430s a little better, though they can still shine with the Schiit stack. With the latter system, there is still a sheer almost indefinable aliveness that lights my heart up and thrills the tempo streak in my body  And, then there is that almost holographic 3D layering that allows me to focus through the clear ambient space around instruments and musicians and effortlessly zoom in on individual notes in a way that is quite uncanny and not a little exciting. I can't do that with the R2R to quite the same level, as great as it sounds. Both systems are brilliant and I am glad and honoured to have them in my home.
 The final drum solo on the Nelson/Marsalis album is still not as riveting or jaw-droppingly detailed as with the HD430s though! There are details there that seem to be missed by any other headphone. The sheer speed and focused attack of the drum sticks, cymbals and kick drum are astonishing.
Therefore, the R2R is more than capable of revealing it if the headphones are up for it.

In conclusion for now, this R2R though has improved vastly in the last three weeks with the Ref1s! I can now say that I'm happy to use them with either system, although they will call the Mimby/Magni 3 home for the most part. No other headphones I have here bring as much overall musical joy of life as the HD540 Reference 1s!

Addendum: A little while later I took the Ref1s back to the Schiit stack and had some new aspects revealed to me; the R2R has an earthy solid bass that provides a foundation for the music, particularly with the Ref1s that will reveal that experience and to a certain extent the HD6xx. The HD430s less so, but the focus, drive and attack is still there, albeit with a lighter tone.
 The Schiit combo is deep too, yet a touch more open and airy, less earthy, while plummeting into the nether regions regardless, seemingly down through my chest at times. Witness the fabulous, organically alive bass rhythms on the Daft Punk's Random Access Memories, the bass synths and drums themselves have a life of their own and this appears to be a feature of the HD540s in themselves, something I've always loved about them for ... 29 years  although definitely not for RAM alone, any well recorded electronic music comes alive in this way. The Schiit gear lets me hear it with no effort.
 The R2R really does appear to have a meatier power supply, it's bass drive seemingly more unlimited than the Magni 3, despite more power on paper for the latter.

The next stage will be to use the HD430s with the R2R set to it's 'warm' mode, jumpers in place. I will use the somewhat forward and slightly bright Sony MDR-1R headphones as well, complete with their own Mogami cable.


----------



## sennsay

HD430s with the R2R set to 'warm' mode. It works ... to a point, but both the HD430s and the Sony MDR-1Rs sound a little closed in and sat upon, not a lot, yet enough to make me a little uncomfortable. I missed that riveting detail and fabulous transparency with the HD430s. It was certainly easy to hear the extra warmth with the 430s in particular, but no, I'll stick with what they do so well with their innate signature sound. 
 The Sony's sound the very best with this amp, more so than I've ever heard them! They have an almost HD540 Ref1 Junior sig. Meaty, bouncy, tuneful and that normally prevalent mid forward slight thinness is virtually banished ... still their signature mid-forward nature, but tamed with clarity and more solidity. They have taken on a very similar 3D immersive intimacy to the Ref1s, a little less couth and refined, but nevertheless amazingly fun. The drum solo on Brubeck's Take Five is wonderful, with some mighty dynamic cracks, it sounds alive! Top end has been civilised somewhat with the R2R, still perky, just not smeared or splashy. They are significantly more open and less ... well, grainy to my ears, than the HD6xx. The best time I've had with the latter was with a whole series of iTunes tracks and I really enjoyed them. This really defines my time with them, patchy good moments, then disappointment, so they will likely be off to their new home tomorrow, a quick sale just this evening. The money will go towards building a new Elekit tube preamp, a project I've been really looking forward to for some time.


----------



## heliosphann

Anyone else move the jumper to enable fixed volume output and still have both outputs still in variable mode???


----------



## gLer

heliosphann said:


> Anyone else move the jumper to enable fixed volume output and still have both outputs still in variable mode???


Nope, mine worked first time. Those jumpers are fiddly though, make sure it’s seated well.


----------



## heliosphann

gLer said:


> Nope, mine worked first time. Those jumpers are fiddly though, make sure it’s seated well.



Hmmm, I'll open it up again. Knew I shouldn't have re-seated the screws before checking... lol


----------



## elira

heliosphann said:


> Anyone else move the jumper to enable fixed volume output and still have both outputs still in variable mode???



That happened to me, but it was too hard to get the cover off that I gave up and didn't try again.


----------



## Monsterzero

elira said:


> That happened to me, but it was too hard to get the cover off that I gave up and didn't try again.



Yeah that lid is tight. Try using a suction cup on it,like something that holds a soap rack onto the wall in your shower,works like a charm.


----------



## heliosphann

Monsterzero said:


> Yeah that lid is tight. Try using a suction cup on it,like something that holds a soap rack onto the wall in your shower,works like a charm.





elira said:


> That happened to me, but it was too hard to get the cover off that I gave up and didn't try again.



It seemed to be even harder to get off the second time! lol

@gLer was right, it wasn't fully seated by like a half mm. Did Kingwa ever say why that jump is set off to begin with? Seems rather silly considering it's a stock main switch position on the front panel.


----------



## elira

heliosphann said:


> It seemed to be even harder to get off the second time! lol
> 
> @gLer was right, it wasn't fully seated by like a half mm. Did Kingwa ever say why that jump is set off to begin with? Seems rather silly considering it's a stock main switch position on the front panel.



If you are using it as pre amp it's easy to miss the middle of the switch and set it to fixed, and that would get really loud.


----------



## Monsterzero (Jun 30, 2018)

heliosphann said:


> It seemed to be even harder to get off the second time! lol
> 
> @gLer was right, it wasn't fully seated by like a half mm. Did Kingwa ever say why that jump is set off to begin with? Seems rather silly considering it's a stock main switch position on the front panel.



I use mine for both fixed and variable and cant be arsed with opening it up everytime I go from DAC mode to headphone mode,so I keep it at variable and when using it as a DAC feeding my GOTL & receivers I put it on high gain,just north of 12:00.


----------



## sennsay

heliosphann said:


> Anyone else move the jumper to enable fixed volume output and still have both outputs still in variable mode???


Yes, mine works perfectly and I'll leave it in that position now, as when I build the new tube preamp kit, the R2R will be the used as a DAC only. I also tried the 'warm' mode using the jumpers, but the sound with the two headphones I used (Senn HD430 and Sony MDR-1R) sounded a bit 'sat-upon', warmer, yes, but lost some of the life too and I'd rather live with the sheer clarity and transparency of those headphones as they are naturally.


----------



## xevman

Why didn't i buy one of these earlier. The R2R 11 is amazing, best hifi purchased i've made for a very long time. Compares very favorably and can sometimes embarrass my much more expensive gear.


----------



## gLer

xevman said:


> Why didn't i buy one of these earlier. The R2R 11 is amazing, best hifi purchased i've made for a very long time. Compares very favorably and can sometimes embarrass my much more expensive gear.


Welcome and glad you've stumbled on to this little 'secret'. How do you find your R2R-11 compared to some of the more 'established' gear in your sig, like the Benchmark?


----------



## heliosphann

xevman said:


> Why didn't i buy one of these earlier. The R2R 11 is amazing, best hifi purchased i've made for a very long time. Compares very favorably and can sometimes embarrass my much more expensive gear.



Sounds like someone is ready to upgrade to a Master 11.


----------



## xevman (Jun 30, 2018)

heliosphann said:


> Sounds like someone is ready to upgrade to a Master 11.


I'll probably be upgrading to the r-28 very soon if the r2r 11 is anything to go by it should be amazing. Audiogds customer support is also very very good. Very helpful in regards to updating the firmware of the unit.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> The bass will get better. And other aspects. But as you said, it's great from day 1. How coherent, fluid and spatially accurate it is, in that price range, is something really special.


The bass certainly has got better, it's more solid, grounded, earthy, unflappable and feels like the power supply has got everything covered. Fluid it is. It does not have quite the spatial clarity between instruments/musicians that the Magni 3/Mimby has, where the air is fresh and clean, the R2R is a little darker and warmer, yet still has a good solid and well anchored soundstage and everything is in it's place. Lucinda Williams sounded particularly good a few nights ago with the HD540 Ref1s. 
 I'm about to use the R2R as a DAC only soon, into the Magni 3 with the Ref1s and see what that may bring to light. How different might it sound from the Mimby? Etc. 
I am using the same Slinkylinks pure silver ICs.


----------



## gLer

sennsay said:


> The bass certainly has got better, it's more solid, grounded, earthy, unflappable and feels like the power supply has got everything covered. Fluid it is. It does not have quite the spatial clarity between instruments/musicians that the Magni 3/Mimby has, where the air is fresh and clean, the R2R is a little darker and warmer, yet still has a good solid and well anchored soundstage and everything is in it's place. Lucinda Williams sounded particularly good a few nights ago with the HD540 Ref1s.
> I'm about to use the R2R as a DAC only soon, into the Magni 3 with the Ref1s and see what that may bring to light. How different might it sound from the Mimby? Etc.
> I am using the same Slinkylinks pure silver ICs.


That will be very interesting indeed. I've always wondered if the creamy, punchy sound of the R2R-11 comes from the dac, amp or a combination of both. I have heard from a friend that the R2R-11 sounds more refined but also more airy and detailed through the NFB-1, for example.


----------



## ProLoL

The dac is the magic here, the amp is not as capable. Can confirm the R2R11 via CMA600i is incredible! switching back to R2R11 as a stand alone, the amp is dirty. Would like to know how's the R2R11 dac with feliks audio elise / euphoria tube amps.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> The dac is the magic here, the amp is not as capable. Can confirm the R2R11 via CMA600i is incredible! switching back to R2R11 as a stand alone, the amp is dirty. Would like to know how's the R2R11 dac with feliks audio elise / euphoria tube amps.


In which case I can't wait to get a listen to the R-28, with both sections upgraded to the max!


----------



## sennsay (Jul 1, 2018)

gLer said:


> That will be very interesting indeed. I've always wondered if the creamy, punchy sound of the R2R-11 comes from the dac, amp or a combination of both. I have heard from a friend that the R2R-11 sounds more refined but also more airy and detailed through the NFB-1, for example.


Interesting it certainly is! The Magni 3 shows up the qualitative differences between the Amanero input and the QP1R as source through the optical input very easily.
Using just a couple of tracks so far that I'm very familiar with, both from the Hip Hop group from OZ called The Herd, very tuneful, story-telling lyrics and some great harmonies; Full Moon and Unpredictable, the latter having a multilingual rap that is often fast and  .... unpredictable. Full Moon is telling the story of a bunch of guys going through a country town which has all but closed down, because the new highway has taken traffic away from the area. A beautifully told tale full of meaning and a touch of pathos. Through the Mimby/Magni 3 set up for instance, very letter of every voice has it's own intimate dictation and focus, it's effortless and as close to 3D as I've ever heard it, each vocal in it's own space, rounded and lip-diction real. Same goes for Unpredictable which has a fast spoken section a few minutes in and in languages other than English. It's a tough test for speed, focus and diction and the amount of effort the brain needs to hear it clearly. No issues at all with the Mimby/M3/Ref1s. Bouncy rhythms full of life and wicked timing changes. My body moves on it's own and singing .. cough ... is required.
 R2R via USB to M3 and Ref1s. More mid bass warmth, an earthy, slightly fuller sound that loses the sheer clarity and focus of diction of the individual voices. Slightly more difficult to hear some of the subtle harmonies too that are effortlessly easy with the 2Ms, they are there, but I lose focus on them. Midrange seems a tad smeared, less 3D for sure, I'm less inclined to bounce along and be totally involved with the music. Good ... but!
 Via the QP1R/M3, we have some life and more detailed focus, the rhythms have taken on a bouncy tunefulness with less smearing, better diction, more involvement. The brain has an easier job of following the speedy multilingual lyrics and they mean something. This _is_ good, even while I still prefer the even better 3D living human performance from the 2Ms, the body just knows this stuff and it's accepted with no more effort, singing, foot-tapping and dancing just happen.
 Exactly the same happens with Random Access Memories. The number of times I've listened to this album late at night with the Schiit stack and the Ref1s is now uncountable. I can be relaxed _and_ enjoy the various rhythms from slow to dance and just pop off to sleep a little while late quite happily. It's special, that system, it has a life that has become my reference point.
 ProLoL mentioned the R2R's amp as sounding a bit dirty ... hmm, not the thought that has ever come to mind for me so far and yet I can see where it would come from, maybe my calling it for earthy would cover that.
 Mm, Lucinda's "When I Look At The World" has more character in her voice via the QP1R/M3, excellent focus. The USB input smooths the character while still being perfectly listenable, though focus is smeared at the edges a little, thereby lessening the clean life of a real three dimensional voice in space in front of a microphone.
Going back to the R2R's own amp/optical, it actually sounds very good, solid, weighty and expressive. The USB input with the same music is flatter, still tuneful, while the layers of sound are less clear between them.
 Overall, I'm quite happy to listen to the R2R as a complete unit, it's sound is solid and unflappable. The DAC is a cracker and is capable of a more 3D performance through the Magni 3, in this case.
 A qualification is required when it comes to using the HD430s with the R2R, it has astonishing transparency just as it is! 3D and all.


----------



## ProLoL

The R2R11 amp is amazing for it's price, but just because of the price, they had to make some cuts. The R2R11 dac is my end game and the amp is the new search.


----------



## sennsay (Jul 1, 2018)

ProLoL said:


> The R2R11 amp is amazing for it's price, but just because of the price, they had to make some cuts. The R2R11 dac is my end game and the amp is the new search.


I'm finding out more and more how good this DAC is. Just watched two eps of the YT series called Impulse. Running the R2R DAC only into the Magni 3 and using the Ref1s, SQ is sterling! Quite fantastic 3D quality of the soundtrack in some of the hospital and school scenes! Sounds in space down corridors, other class rooms, ambient noises from around the set and even outside rooms, sounds seemingly coming from behind my ears and out in space in front of me. Vocal clarity and natural focus is really excellent and when going back to the R2R as a whole unit at times, that sense of transparency is reduced and vocal solidity flattened, a very slightly darker quality too. Still perfectly good though, if I wasn't using the Magni 3 as the main amp in this example, I'd be quite happy with it. It also reminds me how good the Slinkylinks cables are, as there are truly better and more transparent results using the cables and an external amp, compared to shorter signal runs and no cables.
It's been good for me to do this fun testing this evening, I am gaining more insights into the nature of the R2R and the headphone amp section is still far better than the one in my FrankenZero DAC/preamp (it's better as a DAC out or DAC/pre into the Yamaha HS8 monitors), ever so slightly more so than the R2R is in that position.


----------



## ProLoL

I must say that HD800 with the R2R11 is insane for movies/games. HD800 for music is less enjoyable just because of its nature.


----------



## sennsay

Couldn't resist belting out The Who Live At Leeds, plenty of impact, excellent weight on the drum kit, great vocals too, although overall the soundscape is warmer than it ought to be. This recording is actually a touch bass light, although with fabulous dynamic speed and it's not a warm recording, leaner and a touch brighter is more accurate AND the channels are around the wrong way! I will have to reverse the channels on the output of the R2R to the Magni 3 to correct it, John Entwhistle plays on the left hand side, not the right! I seem to be missing a little sheer transparency via the optical input, but it could be the extra warmth and I don't think anything is really missing as such. Closely miked voices are as edgy as they were recorded, just a bit thicker ..... oh, John's fabulous bass playing is muted here! Through the Mimby/Magni 3 the bass playing is scintillating and very clear, twangy in the way the treble is turned up on the bass guitar, just the way John had it set. 
 Using the R2R as a complete unit: maybe you are right, ProLoL, there is a layer of something around the bass guitar that obscures it's depth and the ambient space around it. I am less thrilled here, I can't just melt into the performance in any form of three dimensional space as I can so effortlessly with the 2Ms. The vocals now are more fatiguing when en masse. There are however dynamics aplenty, but that does not a thrilling performance make, not on it's own. It's as if the amp is trying too hard to impress me. 
 I need to load this concert into the Mac and try it through the USB input. After only three tracks I'm happy to go and do something else, I just can't look into/BE in the soundstage, my body is unmoved, no singing, no foot and hand tapping, I am unmoved. It sounds powerful yet messy. With the QP1R into the 2Ms, 'Amazing Journey/Sparks" slays me in it's talented brilliance every time. Not here. 
 Maybe it's an imbalance with the Ref1s in this case. I will play around some more. It was much better last night with YouTube movies via USB.


----------



## sennsay

Crikey, how much better is the R2R as DAC out via USB to the Magni 3! Wow, The Who has finally come alive, with plenty of clarity and gorgeous twangy attack from John Entwhistle's bass guitar, there's real energy and power here now, the drums have some serious welly and intent and Pete's lead guitar is full of harmonic structure, wicked chord changes and attacking energy flowing into delicate movements at a heartbeat. Amazing Journey/Sparks has turned into the thrilling journey it truly is. Vocals are much better now, less edge, the powerhouse intro into Summertime Blues is almost hair-raising in impact, Keith Moon on the drum kit is a hurricane force of unstoppable energy. The bass guitar is almost to the same level of illumination as when using the QP1R into the 2Ms and that goes for the overall feeling here, as the R2R has a weightier presentation than the Mimby, while being less transparent. It sure is a driving force though! A different flavour of experience, the R2R driving the Magni 3 is an animal, the Mimby/M3 system noticeably more illuminating, with a clarity of performance space I can instantly appear in as if by magic and maybe capable of a greater delicacy and tonal micro-flavours I personally find more alluring ultimately. Both are excellent in their own ways. I find the common thread between them here, the Magni 3, to be a highly capable little beastie, one moment delicate and tender, the next thundering into the Ref1s with great intent. Both are stunningly good and not only for their respective prices, but quite some ways beyond them. Fabulous! 
 Here's a final example: 8 minutes in to the 15 minute My Generation knockout piece, is a quiet start by Pete on solo guitar, followed by five hammered out chords to break into a 'See Me Feel Me' instrumental segment, the R2R DAC powers into these chords with weight and energy BUT does _no_t show the intent of _how_ they are played and _why_ by Pete Townsend. It's subtle yet clear. The Mimby/Magni 3 combo sings with those intentions in a way that I do not hear with any other gear, the HD540 Ref1s show this so easily and this is why I love that combo so much and is my goto system when I want to really_ listen_ to music. They relate true feeling and intent. 
 If ya just want to rock out, go the R2R, with or without it's amp. Rocking out with articulation and with what I keep experiencing as a finer tonal palette, the Mimby/Magni 3 via the QP1R has it in spades.   A big hearty smile for them both. I can take my mood dependent choice now.


----------



## JimJames

Hey, I think I'm about to order me an r2r 11. Coul anyone be so kind to tell me how long does it take for delivery in Europe (I'm from Spain)? I ask because I will be changing adress soon and if it takes something ridicolous like 1 month or 2 I might be screwed. Big thanks!


----------



## FredA (Jul 3, 2018)

I takes two weeks max usually to America. Sometimes just one, it depends on their stocks. Email Kingwa, just in case, they sell a lot or r2r-11s these days.


----------



## VilMo

JimJames said:


> Hey, I think I'm about to order me an r2r 11. Coul anyone be so kind to tell me how long does it take for delivery in Europe (I'm from Spain)? I ask because I will be changing adress soon and if it takes something ridicolous like 1 month or 2 I might be screwed. Big thanks!


You can always try Audiophonics in France or Magna HiFi in the Netherlands. They usually stock so you can get them in a matter of days without customs and with the option to return within 30 days if anything is wrong.


----------



## PopZeus

Recent owner of the R2R 11. Installed mainly as a DAC for my living room. It’s not quite as refined and holographic as the R2R 1, but it’s damn close. This is the best modestly-priced combo I’ve ever heard. Anyone looking to upgrade to the R-28 will be very happy.


----------



## gLer (Jul 3, 2018)

PopZeus said:


> Recent owner of the R2R 11. Installed mainly as a DAC for my living room. It’s not quite as refined and holographic as the R2R 1, but it’s damn close. This is the best modestly-priced combo I’ve ever heard. Anyone looking to upgrade to the R-28 will be very happy.


Could you expand a bit on the differences between the R2R-1 and R2R-11? Where do you mostly hear the benefits of the bigger dac? And which amp are you driving the R2R-1 with? I’m looking to upgrade from the R2R-11 (which is excellent) to endgame, with the R-28 and R2R-1 stack as the only two on the shortlist. Thanks in advance.


----------



## joostdh

@JimJames You can also consider ordering from Magna Hi-Fi, an official distributor located in the Netherlands who have their own stock: http://magnahifi.com


----------



## normanl

I'm considering to buy NFB11.38. However, I do not see the listing of it in the website of Audio GD. Can someone point me to NFB11.38?


----------



## PopZeus (Jul 3, 2018)

gLer said:


> Could you expand a bit on the differences between the R2R-1 and R2R-11? Where do you mostly hear the benefits of the bigger dac? And which amp are you driving the R2R-1 with? I’m looking to upgrade from the R2R-11 (which is excellent) to endgame, with the R-28 and R2R-1 stack as the only two on the shortlist. Thanks in advance.



On my desktop, I’m running the R2R 1 balanced out through the LCX, to the Elex. That combo is quite fantastic. (I also have it going SE to an amp a passive speaker.) It shares the same basic tonal profile as the R2R 11, but with a much lower noise floor, and added dynamics, micro-detail, imaging. The 1 doesn’t get tripped up by very complicated or fast music. Whereas the 11’s layers might get fuzzy when the musical passages gets instense. That’s why I used the term holographic-- the R2R 1 just goes deeper into the recording. That said, it’s more noticeable with the Elex, since that is such a revealing headphone,

When I step down to the Fidelio X2, the differences are harder to spot. Since you own the LCD-3 and Elear, I’m gonna assume you would pick up all the benefits to upgrading, but you need a decent amp to go along with it. Why not just go for the R 28? That one’s big and beautiful. Unless you want/have to stack. In that case, I’d go for an Audio-gd balanced amp as well, or perhaps a smaller offering from a different vendor. Plenty of reasonably priced options to choose from.

In defense of the R2R 11 (since I just got one!!), it makes my HT sound better than it ever has for music. All vocals sound fantastic, and it does have a bit of that listening to a great vinyl rig vibe, without the annoying/charming quirks. In fact, it’s revealing maybe how not up to the task my onkyo receiver is.


----------



## FredA

normanl said:


> I'm considering to buy NFB11.38. However, I do not see the listing of it in the website of Audio GD. Can someone point me to NFB11.38?


It's the same as the nfb11.28, only with the es9038 chip instead of es9028. There is no link or description for it. Email audio-gd for a quote.


----------



## DW75

Hey normanl, here is the page for the 11.38.

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1138/NFB1138EN.htm


----------



## FredA

DW75 said:


> Hey normanl, here is the page for the 11.38.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1138/NFB1138EN.htm


Oops. Sorry for misleading.


----------



## normanl

DW75 said:


> Hey normanl, here is the page for the 11.38.
> 
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1138/NFB1138EN.htm


Thanks.


----------



## sumpao

After 2 weeks around 100 hour of use nfb 11.38 i use it as pre amp it work quite well

But when i use it as headphone amp
To drive akg q701 it work wonderful and sound great

But when pair with hd600 the headphone amp in nfb11.38 is not good enough the sound stage is very close. Is it just me?


----------



## gLer

sumpao said:


> After 2 weeks around 100 hour of use nfb 11.38 i use it as pre amp it work quite well
> 
> But when i use it as headphone amp
> To drive akg q701 it work wonderful and sound great
> ...


The HD600 prefers high impedance tube amps. Even then it’s a very polite, rather placid headphone, and there’s not much the NFB-11 can do about that. Just my opinion of course.


----------



## sumpao

gLer said:


> The HD600 prefers high impedance tube amps. Even then it’s a very polite, rather placid headphone, and there’s not much the NFB-11 can do about that. Just my opinion of course.



Yes just to give some opinion that this entry level of audio gd not gonna drive 600 to it proper level 

I now wait for r-28 to come and will see if this would help drive my can


----------



## JimJames

joostdh said:


> @JimJames You can also consider ordering from Magna Hi-Fi, an official distributor located in the Netherlands who have their own stock: http://magnahifi.com



But buying directly from audiogd is something like 50usd cheaper right?


----------



## joostdh (Jul 7, 2018)

JimJames said:


> But buying directly from audiogd is something like 50usd cheaper right?



Well yes and no. Buying direct is cheaper but upon import into Europe customs will charge you tax (vat) which depending on your country is around 20%. (Also the carrier might add 10 to 20 euro “handeling fees”).

However I do not know what value will be declared on the package from Audio-GD so I can’t tell you how much tax you will be charged.

The price of Magna already includes tax. Also you have your full European consumer rights regarding right to return within 14 days and minimum two year warranty when you buy within Europe.

Hope this helps.


----------



## spacequeen7

Anyone looking for good ,cheap cans that pair well with R2R11 should give 58x Jubille a go ,I'm blown away how good this sound via NOS ,this are a bit  analytical , much faster and dynamic (good low end resolution end control,best bass extension out of 600 series)  then HD 650,top is clear and surprisingly detailed on R2R11


----------



## Oberoni

Tiflotin said:


> Does anyone have issues with the R2R-11 after waking your computer from sleep? I have it plugged in via USB but whenever I wake my computer from sleep no sound comes out and I have to unplug and plug in my R2R-11 to hear the sound again.


Yep, I have this issue. It was kind of irritating, so I switched to optical.


----------



## xevman

Well after having the r2r 11 for a few days, I can say that this is the first time I've actually sat back and actually enjoyed the music without being concerned about my chain/gear. I don't know whether this can be attributed to the ladder dac as I've only had experience with delta sigma chips (sabre and akm) but for the money you pay the only compromise I can pick with this unit is the cheap looking switches on the front and thats it. Nothing when it comes to sound thats for sure. It pairs sublimely with my HE-500. After being through several much more expensive DAC/Amp combos in the past year I don't see myself moving from the r2r 11 anytime soon.


----------



## MarkArtz (Jul 5, 2018)

xevman said:


> After being through several much more expensive DAC/Amp combos in the past year I don't see myself moving from the r2r 11 anytime soon.


Same thing with me. Ordered, returned, and sold a lot of expensive gear looking for that special tone that would make me want to listen. Some DAC/Amps Combos or seperate units where either too warm or distorted in some tracks. I like many music genres from Classical instrumental, Jazz, to Heavy Metal. I finally decided to give the R2R-11 a try and ordered after the March firmware update. Well, its now on my desk. I am quite happy and I dont need anything else for now.


----------



## xevman

What was the after March update? I assume it was just the software update to stop the clicks and pops right?


----------



## gLer

xevman said:


> What was the after March update? I assume it was just the software update to stop the clicks and pops right?


Yes, and I can confirm it works.


----------



## xevman

Yeah it definitely does. Mine was a pre March unit (bought second hand) the firmware update was simple enough. I didn't find the clicks and pops that intrusive though in the first place.


----------



## tskeng

Hey,
so I just received my HD6XX from Massdrop. Should I continue to use "Low Gain" or switch to using "High Gain"?

At Low Gain, I'm able to have the volume dial around 10 O' clock position (that sweet spot). At High Gain, my ears could only tolerate at most at the 8 O' clock position.

At High Gain, I find that the sound is more spacious without certain portions overpowering. For example at Low, turning the volume up makes the vocals more prominent.

I may have a weird pair of ears and a dull brain to accompany them.

Sorry if my question sounds ridiculous.


----------



## gLer

tskeng said:


> Hey,
> so I just received my HD6XX from Massdrop. Should I continue to use "Low Gain" or switch to using "High Gain"?
> 
> At Low Gain, I'm able to have the volume dial around 10 O' clock position (that sweet spot). At High Gain, my ears could only tolerate at most at the 8 O' clock position.
> ...


I’ve always found AGD to soundbetter in high gain mode - at least the NFB-11 and R2R-11. More engaging and dynamic even volume matched at low gain. Kingwa also suggests to use HG mode on his amps. So it’s not just you.


----------



## tskeng

gLer said:


> I’ve always found AGD to soundbetter in high gain mode - at least the NFB-11 and R2R-11. More engaging and dynamic even volume matched at low gain. Kingwa also suggests to use HG mode on his amps. So it’s not just you.



Great to know that!
I was wondering if I should I take another step and add an iFi iematch in there in ultra mode, to get more allowance on the volume dial.


----------



## sennsay

Having a ball tonight with a new (to me) album by a popular local Sunshine Coast group called OKA, a disc called Milk & Honey. A mix of natural instruments, synth and didjeridu, this album is almost dance/trance mixed with punchy drum n bass rhythms and a warm coastal dance vibe - they're famous for it. The R2R-11 well warmed up and the HD540 Ref1s jacked in and I said goodbye to the HE400S here pretty quickly, they simply don't have the deeper bass and open, relaxed yet dynamic mix of instruments and vocals. They keep the soundstage firmly at a narrowish level and never really expand into wide open space. The Ref1s as always bring a big open space in height, width and depth that the other cans just can't match. I'm _still_ entranced by the way they just vanish, leaving instruments so alive and organic suspended in their own space and never blurring with other sounds, it's just so easy to follow any instrument no matter where it is because it's so obviously located in it's own ambience, while always rhythmically connected and never disjointed. The R2R has loads of power and drive and never runs out of steam, the Ref1s just taking it in, full and deep, warm and alive. Amp set to high gain and the volume on 1PM. Fabulous. Effortless. No edge, no forward shoutiness, I can both relax yet want to move and dance and sing at the same time, they are still a world apart from any other headphones for a complete and balanced package. Drive and bass depth have shocked me a couple of times tonight. I can truly _listen_ to the music with an open window. Easily the most satisfying headphones I've ever heard by far, so much so that any micro-detailing they may miss out on is inconsequential to the whole. I'm still astonished at how well they maintain this vanishing act - soundstage-wise - with both systems, only becoming even more open and spacious with the 2Ms and a little darker and earthier with the R2R. Both are rhythmically superb. I'm very happy with the versatile a-gd R2R-11! 
 I've loaded this album into the QP1R now, so I will play this music through the Mimby/Magni 3 system a little later.

I still couldn't get on with the HD6xx overall in my systems, despite a little extra detailing in the mids and some treble with a couple of select albums, they are far from an upgrade to the beautifully balanced HD540 Ref1s. They sold quickly, extra pads and all. I miss them not a jot. All of you who love them, bless your little cotton socks


----------



## JSOppenheimer (Jul 9, 2018)

I'm supposed to receive my R2R-11 soon and I'm super excited to see how it pairs with my HD600 (and SR325, D5000 and Nighthawk also for that matter, but I'd guess that HD600 will be the one who gets the biggest upgrade there), but I have just one stupid question about it: because it apparently doesn't have a muting relay, can it be dangerous to leave headphones connected to it when powering on or off? I've never bothered to disconnect the plug with my current amp/dac (Corda 3Move) when I power it off or on, so do I need to change my habits now?

Either way, I'm hoping that I get to share some impressions soon!


----------



## gLer

JSOppenheimer said:


> I'm supposed to receive my R2R-11 soon and I'm super excited to see how it pairs with my HD600 (and SR325, D5000 and Nighthawk also for that matter, but I'd guess that HD600 will be the one who gets the biggest upgrade there), but I have just one stupid question about it: because it apparently doesn't have a muting relay, can it be dangerous to leave headphones connected to it when powering on or off? I've never bothered to disconnect the plug with my current amp/dac (Corda 3Move) when I power it off or on, so do I need to change my habits now?
> 
> Either way, I'm hoping that I get to share some impressions soon!


I don’t believe so, but I always zero the volume when I plug headphones in or out as a matter of habit. If the headphones are in, no need to zero. Others may have a different view so don’t take this as gospel.


----------



## MelonHead

JimJames said:


> But buying directly from audiogd is something like 50usd cheaper right?


As Magna-Hifi is located within the EU you don't have to pay customs fee, and the cost of shipping is much less as well. The delivery was 4 days from the dispatch, while many chinese packages take 3-5 weeks. Last but not least, in case of emergency, you have European warranty for the product.


----------



## spacequeen7

sennsay said:


> Having a ball tonight with a new (to me) album by a popular local Sunshine Coast group called OKA, a disc called Milk & Honey. A mix of natural instruments, synth and didjeridu, this album is almost dance/trance mixed with punchy drum n bass rhythms and a warm coastal dance vibe - they're famous for it. The R2R-11 well warmed up and the HD540 Ref1s jacked in and I said goodbye to the HE400S here pretty quickly, they simply don't have the deeper bass and open, relaxed yet dynamic mix of instruments and vocals. They keep the soundstage firmly at a narrowish level and never really expand into wide open space. The Ref1s as always bring a big open space in height, width and depth that the other cans just can't match. I'm _still_ entranced by the way they just vanish, leaving instruments so alive and organic suspended in their own space and never blurring with other sounds, it's just so easy to follow any instrument no matter where it is because it's so obviously located in it's own ambience, while always rhythmically connected and never disjointed. The R2R has loads of power and drive and never runs out of steam, the Ref1s just taking it in, full and deep, warm and alive. Amp set to high gain and the volume on 1PM. Fabulous. Effortless. No edge, no forward shoutiness, I can both relax yet want to move and dance and sing at the same time, they are still a world apart from any other headphones for a complete and balanced package. Drive and bass depth have shocked me a couple of times tonight. I can truly _listen_ to the music with an open window. Easily the most satisfying headphones I've ever heard by far, so much so that any micro-detailing they may miss out on is inconsequential to the whole. I'm still astonished at how well they maintain this vanishing act - soundstage-wise - with both systems, only becoming even more open and spacious with the 2Ms and a little darker and earthier with the R2R. Both are rhythmically superb. I'm very happy with the versatile a-gd R2R-11!
> I've loaded this album into the QP1R now, so I will play this music through the Mimby/Magni 3 system a little later.
> 
> *I still couldn't get on with the HD6xx overall in my systems*, despite a little extra detailing in the mids and some treble with a couple of select albums, they are far from an upgrade to the beautifully balanced HD540 Ref1s. They sold quickly, extra pads and all. I miss them not a jot. All of you who love them, bless your little cotton socks



You not the only one ,same here my HD 650's doesn't pair well with R2R 11 ,it seams to me that slightly brighter cans is the way to go on this gear ,my recently acquired 58x sound so much better ,it actually made me switch from  LCD-2 
Thanks for the feedback 
Cheers


----------



## maheeinfy

New R2R11 owner here. There seems to be some distortion in the bass with R2R11. I tried HD58X and few other cans and its there in all of them. 

In the 'Bass shaker' test from below link, first 2 to 3 seconds doesn't sound right and likely some distortion in there. 
https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

anyone has insight on this?


----------



## xevman (Jul 9, 2018)

I saw someone on reddit mention this. Just gave it a test, i'm not exactly sure what I'm listening for? Could you describe it to me? Is it like a buzzing sound?


----------



## FredA

xevman said:


> I saw someone on reddit mention this. Just gave it a test, i'm not exactly sure what I'm listening for? Could you describe it to me? Is it like a buzzing sound?


Beware of test files of unknown source. I use my own files, never a file from someone i don't know or don't trust,


----------



## xevman (Jul 9, 2018)

Doesn't bother me regardless, I am unable to pick up on any supposed distortion with the r2r 11 in any of my listening.


----------



## maheeinfy (Jul 9, 2018)

xevman said:


> I saw someone on reddit mention this. Just gave it a test, i'm not exactly sure what I'm listening for? Could you describe it to me? Is it like a buzzing sound?


Try the test on any other amp you may have. Even your phone may be enough for the test.
With R2R, initial and the last 2-3 seconds doesnt sound 'tight' and there is a slight buzz in the bass.


----------



## elira

maheeinfy said:


> Try the test on any other amp you may have. Even your phone may be enough for the test.
> With R2R, initial and the last 2-3 seconds doesnt sound 'tight' and there is a slight buzz in the bass.


I don't hear anything wrong, but my headphones are very efficient (ESS 422H), also my unit should be fairly broken-in (has played hundreds of hours and has been on for months). My guess is that your unit has something wrong, or you need to let it break in a little.


----------



## volikovvv (Jul 10, 2018)

maheeinfy said:


> New R2R11 owner here. There seems to be some distortion in the bass with R2R11. I tried HD58X and few other cans and its there in all of them.
> 
> In the 'Bass shaker' test from below link, first 2 to 3 seconds doesn't sound right and likely some distortion in there.
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> ...


I have the same issue, extra sound with much higher frequency playing with this record, but on my second dac - no extra sound(test sound only), realtek - no extra sound(test sound only). Seems to be some problems with device, and pay attention to extra sounds with another tests from this web page, but on other devices - silent, no distortions.

p.s. I begin to notice this extra sound which not should be there in my songs after this test


----------



## thebkt

FredA said:


> Beware of test files of unknown source. I use my own files, never a file from someone i don't know or don't trust,


It's a legit and perfectly safe website.


----------



## volikovvv (Jul 10, 2018)

thebkt said:


> It's a legit and perfectly safe website.


Issue is 100% not with this website, and not with power/usb cables, i've just tried different devices/cables/headphones, and i'm sad to say but trouble in r2r

r2r-1 have the same issues?

p.s. I hear issues in high frequencies too, at full range sweep, some kind of distortion so sad, i was happy with my device before this test.


----------



## J Mirra

Bass Shaker test Asus Xonar ST > Coax > R2R 11 with the Beyer T1.1 no distortion.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Jul 10, 2018)

Ladder Dac is prone to some distortions ,iirc any power jitters or temperature swings on single resistor can create distortion ,if it happens in exactly same time stamp then it's not the gear but the track
from ADG website
"Weaknesses:
        1..
        2._ Glitches and accuracy of the ladder resistors are very difficult to avoid and require complex technology to resolve it._


----------



## elira

I think it’s better to leave it always on, that way the temperature is stable.


----------



## sennsay (Jul 11, 2018)

Ah, a stable and warm R2R, lovely. The new inner (DT880) foams arrived for my 600 ohm HD430s today, so in they went, Mogami cable poached from the HD540 Ref1s and into the music. Damn if these aren't the most transparent headphones I've ever heard that aren't that way because they accentuate the treble with edge or peakiness! These are now my absolute favourite headphones with jazz - got Take Five on at this very moment and the clarity and natural detail is scintillating, all the way down to as far as they'll go .... which isn't that far, there's only so much they'll do in the bass and then they just overload. Natural instruments are fine actually and beautifully so, double bass is simply glorious in it's harmonic purity - you can almost see the coiled shape of the strings and the harmonics coming off them - it's the synth bass that gets them and will overload the drivers. Kick drum and stick detail are just wonderful, excellent speed, focus and not a trace of blur or any lack of rhythmic integrity. Treble purity without any forward shoutiness (I'm looking at you, HD6xx!) is fantastic, with just lovely tonal detail and focused 3D imaging.
I've realised that the HD430s are like _really_ fine mini monitors on stands (without any mid bass hump!), they have their limits, but within those limits, oh wow! They show the R2R's headphone amp in a really good light, more transparent than might be expected from using some other headphones.
 Something I need to find out tomorrow though, is if the HD430s overload in the bass on the Mimby/Magni 3 system with the same Genesis live track I played earlier on the R2R.
 Meantime, Wynton Marsalis' trumpet playing on Basin Street Blues, with Willie Nelson is just so illuminating, as is the rest of the soundstage, even the slightest movement and vocal murmurings both on stage and in the audience are mesmerisingly transparent to hear. Wonderful. Piano clarity is sublime, as is vocal diction and the tonal quality of the brass, losing only a touch of that rosy harmonic richness on the lower notes. They have the same family trait of the period Sennheisers where music just flows with this incredible rhythmic integrity (HD540 Ref1s and HD250 Linear 1) and it makes leaving the system to go to bed at night a long drawn out affair  I had the same problem the other night with the Ref1s, that same experience of being at a live performance.
 R2R-11/HD430, a genuinely fascinating pairing that I would never have expected.


----------



## Oberoni (Jul 11, 2018)

I notice that once every other day or so, I'll get random pops when no music or other sounds are playing from my computer. It's the same whether I flip the switch to my powered speakers connected to the back of my R2R-11, or my headphones up front. It's not consistent; sometimes I can turn my computer on and I hear dead silence when no music is playing. Anyone have this experience, or any thoughts on how to resolve this? My R2R-11 is connected to my Windows 7 PC via optical.


----------



## JimJames

quick question. The guy from audio gd has told me to make the payment via paypal in two times (first 100something then 200something). Should I make the first payment and wait for him to send me an email or just make the two payments right away?


----------



## FredA

JimJames said:


> quick question. The guy from audio gd has told me to make the payment via paypal in two times (first 100something then 200something). Should I make the first payment and wait for him to send me an email or just make the two payments right away?


Make the two payments right away.


----------



## MelonHead (Jul 11, 2018)

maheeinfy said:


> New R2R11 owner here. There seems to be some distortion in the bass with R2R11. I tried HD58X and few other cans and its there in all of them.
> 
> In the 'Bass shaker' test from below link, first 2 to 3 seconds doesn't sound right and likely some distortion in there.
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> ...


I've tested it with my Amiron Home and R2R-11 several times and found no distortions or other flaws during the playback.

Edit: check this out as well:

I don't have any problem except when I turn the knob above 2 o'clock in High Gain mode. This is where my HPs start to distort. It means a lot of headroom still as I never use my setup above 1 o'clock (usually 10-11 o'clock) in High Gain mode or 3 o'clock (usually 11-13 o'clock) in Low Gain mode.


----------



## gLer

MelonHead said:


> I've tested it with my Amiron Home and R2R-11 several times and found no distortions or other flaws during the playback.
> 
> Edit: check this out as well:
> 
> I don't have any problem except when I turn the knob above 2 o'clock in High Gain mode. This is where my HPs start to distort. It means a lot of headroom still as I never use my setup above 1 o'clock (usually 10-11 o'clock) in High Gain mode or 3 o'clock (usually 11-13 o'clock) in Low Gain mode.



I think these tests reveal more about your headphones than the R2R-11. Many people underestimate just how powerful the R2R-11 actually is, especially for what it costs. It blows the socks off some high end $1000+ amps in terms of raw power. So it’s no surprise some headphones buckle under hat power when driven too hard. I couldn’t listen to my Elears past 10 o’clock on high gain on the R2R-11 (and now with my new R-28, I’m at less than 10% power on high gain at my top ‘safe’ volume). 

These are very, very powerful amps Kingwa is making; they’ll make you deaf (and make your headphones distort) before they break into a sweat.


----------



## Bruc3

Hi guys,
I currently got a HD650 paired with a NFB 11.28 and it sounds wonderful.

But all these positive reviews with the CTH + HD650 pairing has got me real curious.

Does anyone have experience with both the NFB 11 and CTH that can chime in? Specifically better if you had it paired with HD650.


----------



## ProLoL

Can confirm that the bass with R2R11 and HD250 linear 1 / 2 extends to hell without any distortion. If you experience any distortion it's your headphones.


----------



## Bruc3

So I just got the NFB 11.28, and currently connected to my computer via USB which works fine.

I was just curious what sample rate settings I should set it as and 24 or 32 bit?

I currently just set it at max 32 bit and 384kHz but not sure if this is best or not?

I listen to a lot of FLAC music in foobar and use WASAPI. But also alot of low quality mp3, even some 128k music.

Also will youtube, game and movies too.


----------



## maheeinfy

Tested further with a few headphones(Argon mk3, HE500, HD58X) run from m9xx, m9xx into DV336SE, R2R11, R2R11 into DV336SE 

Issue seems to be with the DAC portion of the R2R11. Running headphones direct from R2R11 or using other amp in the mix, i can hear the same distortion in the Bass shaker test.

May be its a R2R thing, but that doesn't explain why others do not have this issue. May be my R2R11 is faulty. Going to contact A-gd


----------



## kdoof

Bruc3 said:


> Hi guys,
> I currently got a HD650 paired with a NFB 11.28 and it sounds wonderful.
> 
> But all these positive reviews with the CTH + HD650 pairing has got me real curious.
> ...



The 6xx series does great with tubes, as does the 800. However the CTH is just a hybrid tube amp, so while there may be a slight difference between it and the NFB 11.28, you'd see a bigger difference by getting an OTL tube amp instead.


----------



## Bruc3

kdoof said:


> The 6xx series does great with tubes, as does the 800. However the CTH is just a hybrid tube amp, so while there may be a slight difference between it and the NFB 11.28, you'd see a bigger difference by getting an OTL tube amp instead.



Thanks, I was suspecting this. Everyone seems to always recommend OTL, but I don't really like the fuss of tubes and rolling tubes etc.

What would be the best solid state amp to pair with if I wanted it for mostly slow music with alot of instrumental and vocals e.g. slow jazz and mando pop.


----------



## elira

Bruc3 said:


> What would be the best solid state amp to pair with if I wanted it for mostly slow music with alot of instrumental and vocals e.g. slow jazz and mando pop.


I’ve found the Aune X7s to be the best pairing for the HD6XX among the amps I’ve tried (excluding tubes). The little bear B4 is a hybrid portable tube amp and also has good synergy with the HD6XX and it’s very inexpensive.


----------



## kdoof

I just received my second-hand R2R 11 in the mail today and so far am actually deeply impressed. I don't put much credence in measurements, but I wasn't sure what to expect since it "measures" poorly, being Audio G-D (and even more so, being R2R). I'd also heard R2R DACs before but only briefly.

My first impression is that the tone of this thing is *thick*. After a few months of listening to a D30, an EL DAC, and an SDAC, as well as my V30, this is kind of a welcome relief, it finally feels like music has the heft it should. The EL DAC and SDAC are both warm as well but there's a definite sacrifice in clarity between those two that this does not have, to my ears -- where both of those could be called almost 'fuzzy', this feels substantial. I actually doubt it's something unique to R2R DACs, since I did not feel this way about the Modi Multibit, which sounded bright and somewhat harsh.

Also have to say I love the aesthetics of this thing. The simple, DIY-feeling switches and silver pentiometer are surprisingly pleasing to the eye, more so in person than in pictures or video.

It's not all sunshine -- this unit hasn't had the updated firmware, so there is still popping between tracks. After some trial and error I found that maxing out the output specs to it minimizes the popping to a tiny, almost unnoticeable single pop -- before then it was two or three pops and a few moments delay before a track started playing.

Overall, I'm really happy with this DAC so far. I've spent a few months looking for a solid "starter" DAC and amp, and think I've finally found one to tide myself over until I'm ready to drop $800+ on both an amp and DAC. I'm not committed to it or anything yet, but my initial impressions are very positive.


----------



## sennsay (Jul 13, 2018)

kdoof said:


> I just received my second-hand R2R 11 in the mail today and so far am actually deeply impressed. I don't put much credence in measurements, but I wasn't sure what to expect since it "measures" poorly, being Audio G-D (and even more so, being R2R). I'd also heard R2R DACs before but only briefly.
> 
> My first impression is that the tone of this thing is *thick*. After a few months of listening to a D30, an EL DAC, and an SDAC, as well as my V30, this is kind of a welcome relief, it finally feels like music has the heft it should. The EL DAC and SDAC are both warm as well but there's a definite sacrifice in clarity between those two that this does not have, to my ears -- where both of those could be called almost 'fuzzy', this feels substantial. I actually doubt it's something unique to R2R DACs, since I did not feel this way about the Modi Multibit, which sounded bright and somewhat harsh.
> 
> ...


You had a Modi Multibit that sounded bright and harsh? _How?_ That is the very last thing I would describe of my Mimby/Magni 3 system, I only get the most lovely detail and 3D soundstage with my Ref1s and nary a trace of edge or harshness, even with pure silver interconnects. Sheer transparency in the soundstage is slightly wider and deeper with the Schiit stack too, just a different experience is all. I can listen to both for hours at a time.
 I'll certainly agree with you about the R2R being a little thick with some headphones, I feel it has a basic solid earthiness that brings density and weight to all good things  Besides sounding amazing with my much less bassy HD430s, a good match unless there is lots of synth bass. The Ref1s have no issues with bass at all here and a recent frequency test using them with the R2R gave me clear tone sweep from an easily heard 20 Hz, right up to 10.8kHz, before a bit of a dip then back on up to 13.8kHz and rolling off from there. I figured from that I have pretty good hearing after 6.2 decades of this life and 44 years in hifi  The Ref1s can cut the mustard, even at 29 years old! Mogami cable and new pads and foams helps a great deal too.


----------



## PopZeus (Jul 13, 2018)

Doing some Friday evening listening on the R2R-11 in the living room. INXS isn’t one of my favorite bands but something about their production really shines through this combo. I think it’s the deep punchy bass with the very staccato Fender rhythm guitar and Hutchence’s baritone tying it all together. It just really sounds very alive.


----------



## kdoof

sennsay said:


> You had a Modi Multibit that sounded bright and harsh? _How?_ That is the very last thing I would describe of my Mimby/Magni 3 system, I only get the most lovely detail and 3D soundstage with my Ref1s and nary a trace of edge or harshness, even with pure silver interconnects. Sheer transparency in the soundstage is slightly wider and deeper with the Schiit stack too, just a different experience is all. I can listen to both for hours at a time.
> I'll certainly agree with you about the R2R being a little thick with some headphones, I feel it has a basic solid earthiness that brings density and weight to all good things  Besides sounding amazing with my much less bassy HD430s, a good match unless there is lots of synth bass. The Ref1s have no issues with bass at all here and a recent frequency test using them with the R2R gave me clear tone sweep from an easily heard 20 Hz, right up to 10.8kHz, before a bit of a dip then back on up to 13.8kHz and rolling off from there. I figured from that I have pretty good hearing after 6.2 decades of this life and 44 years in hifi  The Ref1s can cut the mustard, even at 29 years old! Mogami cable and new pads and foams helps a great deal too.



I didn't own one but listened to it extensively at the Schiitr a few times. I found the Mimbys really accentuate cymbals and higher frequencies in comparison to other DACs. (I was actually auditioning the Magni 3 at the time -- I hated the Mimby/Magni pair so I moved the Magni to the Bimby, and it sounded great. The Magni also sounded pretty good with the aforementioned DACs I had tried as well.)


----------



## sennsay

kdoof said:


> I didn't own one but listened to it extensively at the Schiitr a few times. I found the Mimbys really accentuate cymbals and higher frequencies in comparison to other DACs. (I was actually auditioning the Magni 3 at the time -- I hated the Mimby/Magni pair so I moved the Magni to the Bimby, and it sounded great. The Magni also sounded pretty good with the aforementioned DACs I had tried as well.)


Wow, ok, well I have to acknowledge your own experiences there, they have never been mine. As I've described before, that system with QP1R running optical out and the Ref1s is superb. I have to admit too that the Slinkylinks silver ICs are sublimely good and it does make a difference even when using the R2R as a DAC into the Magni 3, utterly grainless, balanced from top two bottom with nary a trace of edge unless the recording is truly horrible and in which case it's out the door with it. The beauty of it is that I can still hear the humanity behind the obviously flawed recording.


----------



## sennsay

I can say this about the R2R a good month or more in, the dynamics have increased significantly and in the last few days it's as if it's gone through a milestone in the running in process. It's gained an impactful presence, extra drive and energy not only in the bass, but also in the dynamic solidity further up the range. Jack White's Acoustic Recordings 1998-2016, has gained a dynamic intensity and purposefulness that is quite different from only a couple of weeks ago. This has happened across the range right up into the impacts of stick on high hat and the topmost brassy shimmers on crash cymbals, an image 3D solidity that the Ref1s are especially brilliant at. These headphones have at last come alive with the R2R, maintaining their effortless purity and lack of midband sharpness or edge with great presence and excellent deep organic bass when it's present. An amazing combo now.


----------



## loungecat

*Audeze Lcd-2 pairing with Audio Gd NFB11. 28*. 
Looking at jumping in on one of these amp's to drive my Audeze Lcd-2. 
Anybody else running the same setup as this,would love to hear some thoughts on what I can expect 
Much appreciated


----------



## sennsay (Jul 15, 2018)

loungecat said:


> *Audeze Lcd-2 pairing with Audio Gd NFB11. 28*.
> Looking at jumping in on one of these amp's to drive my Audeze Lcd-2.
> Anybody else running the same setup as this,would love to hear some thoughts on what I can expect
> Much appreciated


Well now, I have heard from another HD540 Ref fan and enthusiastic user that my/our HD540s (upgraded with pads and cable etc) sound remarkably like the LCD2 in overall warmth and balance, so I figure if my own Ref1s are singing so well with the R2R, it's a strong possibility that the LCD2 will as well. I imagine the bass will really kick along with the planar headphones, although I'm not a _big_ fan of my HE400S with the R2R, they're good, but no HD540 Ref1s! It's taken a solid month for the bass and dynamic range to really kick in, King-wa did say it would be 500 hours or so before really coming on song and mine must be 350-400 hrs + by now. This recent development came on quite quickly, something I've noticed with certain other gear. Almost a geometric curve of improvement


----------



## loungecat

Hey head fiers
Have finally made my purchase on this Amp,just waiting for it to arrive now.
Can someone tell me, how I can connect My Dap ( Dp-x1 Onkyo) to this amp ? or is it not possible!
mainly use my Dap for Tidal streaming so hoping I can still go down this path to connect to the Amp.
I'm aware the Amp has a Coaxial input but not sure how my Dap integrates with this ?

Any help would be fab


----------



## elira

loungecat said:


> Hey head fiers
> Have finally made my purchase on this Amp,just waiting for it to arrive now.
> Can someone tell me, how I can connect My Dap ( Dp-x1 Onkyo) to this amp ? or is it not possible!
> mainly use my Dap for Tidal streaming so hoping I can still go down this path to connect to the Amp.
> ...



According to the manual, via usb using an otg cable.


----------



## loungecat

elira said:


> According to the manual, via usb using an otg cable.


Thanks for the reply
I wonder if Tidal will actually play through the USB ?

Will be super excited if it does


----------



## elira

loungecat said:


> Thanks for the reply
> I wonder if Tidal will actually play through the USB ?
> 
> Will be super excited if it does


I think it does, you can also try http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro


----------



## loungecat

elira said:


> I think it does, you can also try http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-player-pro



Yes OK, I think i sent these Guy's an email about this a while ago and they said it can't be done
I can play Music on the SD card Mp3,Flac, Through the USB,but not Tidal could be a bummer.
Regards Steve


----------



## Heavyboxer

So I began reading this thread from page 1 and just completed after a couple of weeks.

I placed my order last week for the R2R-11 and shipped yesterday (told them to delay as I'm not at home this week), and should get it by next week.

FYI, since I didn't see this info anywhere on this thread, Kingwa confirms:

You can place small tube amps( like my lil dot mkii) on top, and also stand the R2R on its side, as long as the left is on top.


----------



## JimJames

My R2R11 should arrive next week (or at least I hope so since it's been flying from Guangzhou China since the 18th) but Kingwa told me to check the product to see if it was damaged while the postman was still there. I'm guessing he means if it's suffered any physical damage from handling in the delivery process, since actually sitting down and installing the drivers to see if everything's fine would be insulting to the postman. The postman is obligated to wait a minute or two if the customer asks to, to see if the package arrived in one piece right?


----------



## Heavyboxer

JimJames said:


> My R2R11 should arrive next week (or at least I hope so since it's been flying from Guangzhou China since the 18th) but Kingwa told me to check the product to see if it was damaged while the postman was still there. I'm guessing he means if it's suffered any physical damage from handling in the delivery process, since actually sitting down and installing the drivers to see if everything's fine would be insulting to the postman. The postman is obligated to wait a minute or two if the customer asks to, to see if the package arrived in one piece right?



Kingwa asked the same from me, but the box was pristine and the heavy duty packaging (amp "floats" in between very thick and dense polystyrene/sponge material). Was no need to bother the delivery man.
Note that the R2R-11 sounds great out of the box!... and mine has been on since Monday for optimal burn in.


----------



## loungecat

Mine arrives next week as well, was given the same advice to check parcel before signing (Australia).
I'm. Super excited for this to arrive,, headphones will be the Audeze Lcd-2c


----------



## JimJames

Ahh great to hear. Man I can't wait, It's been a week already listening to my new K712s plugged straight into my laptop; they're gonna sound great when that r2r finally arrives.


----------



## maheeinfy

Let me ask the new owners of R2R11. How does the 'Bass shaker' test below run on your R2R11.  Does it sound exactly the same as running from any of your other equipment that's not a R2R? or do you hear some distortion(other frequencies) in start and end of the test.

Run it loud enough where you can hear the drivers are really working.

https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


----------



## maheeinfy

maheeinfy said:


> Let me ask the new owners of R2R11. How does the 'Bass shaker' test below run on your R2R11.  Does it sound exactly the same as running from any of your other equipment that's not a R2R? or do you hear some distortion(other frequencies) in start and end of the test.
> 
> Run it loud enough where you can hear the drivers are really working.
> 
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


I guess there are others who had this problem. Kingwa emailed to send the unit back to him. I am still debating whether i should as its a hassle
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7xhnhs/r2r_11_distortion_low_frequency_sweep/


----------



## Heavyboxer

maheeinfy said:


> I guess there are others who had this problem. Kingwa emailed to send the unit back to him. I am still debating whether i should as its a hassle
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/7xhnhs/r2r_11_distortion_low_frequency_sweep/



Just tried this test, and my R2R-11 failed bass shaker miserably.
I tried using both USB and optical inputs, but both show same background buzzing for about 5~6 seconds.
(Also tried using the 6XX and 4XX... same buzz remain)

Tried it on my soon-to-be-retired Schiit stack (mimby magni3) and buzzing STARTED after 5~6 seconds.

It's not enough to send it back, and am hopeful it will not be so obvious with my LSR30x monitors on the way.


----------



## J Mirra (Jul 30, 2018)

Heavyboxer said:


> Just tried this test, and my R2R-11 failed bass shaker miserably.
> I tried using both USB and optical inputs, but both show same background buzzing for about 5~6 seconds.
> (Also tried using the 6XX and 4XX... same buzz remain)
> 
> ...


I hear the fast sine wave rise and fall like a normal sine wave with the R2R 11.

I read many people saying there is an issue, I wounder if they are hearing the sine and thinking it should be a flat tone?


----------



## maheeinfy

Try the same test on any other device or even a phone
Bass shaker - play it loud and difference should be obvious especially start and end of the test


----------



## maheeinfy

Heavyboxer said:


> Just tried this test, and my R2R-11 failed bass shaker miserably.
> I tried using both USB and optical inputs, but both show same background buzzing for about 5~6 seconds.
> (Also tried using the 6XX and 4XX... same buzz remain)
> 
> ...


I dont think monitors can play that low so it may not be a huge issue


----------



## alota

Sorry to ask: the problem is present with music? ihad r2r-15 in the past without issues, just the famous pop  between tracks. i´m thinking to buy the r2r-11 but now i read about this problem


----------



## Heavyboxer

alota said:


> Sorry to ask: the problem is present with music? ihad r2r-15 in the past without issues, just the famous pop  between tracks. i´m thinking to buy the r2r-11 but now i read about this problem



No problem with music to my ears. I was completely unaware of this "issue" and I am still listening to the R2R-11 with hd6xx as i type this reply... cypress hill still sounds great, bong sound and all!


----------



## Hunkles (Jul 30, 2018)

So after about total 3 headache hours, about 3 days of restlessness & 60$ later, I got the R2R11 updated for myself
*tl;dr* *the update is great and removes like 95% of the "popping" in my case*

Important tips you need to know before trying to update your pre-March updated R2R-11:

The program only works on Windows 7/xp (idk about mac) _(This is not said explicitly from Auidogd, don't try on Win10 less you're a guru)_
*You* must buy the USB "blaster" (connector) from Ebay or elsewhere for around 20$ _(shipped from China in my case, Audiogd will tell you which)_
There are 3 large capacitors in the way of one of the modules you need to update and can pose a challenge to work around._ (My way described below)_
The single wire connectors did not work in the program_ (for me at least)_
Details:
I'll spare you the emails I sent back and forth with Audiogd, they were decent in attempting to help me, but most didn't work.
I was installing, wiping registry, reinstalling, downloading over and over the large 8gb program, trying to get the program to run correctly on Windows 10. It was only after most of this that I found out the program only works on Windows 7 natively, _unless you use a Virtual box on Windows 10 which is more time consuming for someone who hasn't set one up before._ No one from Auidogd told me this about using Win7. Windows 10 version of the program, I don't think works for the programming Audiogd uses on their R2R11 since my USB blaster was not getting recognized at all before even connecting to the R2R-11. After that I tried getting the wires to connect to the pins, and for anyone who does not know, the R2R-11 has _TWO_ DA modules that need to be both updated, seated on top of eachother. This is a major headache reaching the pins on the bottom module because there are about 3 giant capacitors blocking the connector you need to slide on. Audigd told me I could use the single wires connector type to connect each pin, but after wiring correctly to the diagram included with the USB blaster, the program was telling me they were not connected right, they were from my standpoint, but okay w/e, YMMV. Here's a pic of those damn 3 capacitors and the fight to get past them:
https://i.imgur.com/8hYrSiz.jpg (the bent one and the two next to it)

It looked like some soldering work could be done so with me not wanting to accidentally break the almost 400$ box, I had my local shop do the work for me (costing me a leg of 40$, but w/e). I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get the connector attached without going this route, so I had to have this done. They moved the capacitor out of the way, shrink wrapped the wires and guaranteed me their work, but informed me the other capacitors were still in the way(dammit) and they did not feel comfortable taking the others ones out.
I reassembled some of the box, so it's a worse picture but you can now see how the capacitor is out of the way now and no longer a PIMA:
https://i.imgur.com/OS8tvp1.jpg

There were still 2 other large capacitors in the way, these barely budging so, they suggested disassembling the modules from eachother. I did not want to do that from a accident safe point, so that's where I thought to myself when I got home:
To just *shave* down the connector head. This worked flawlessly after enough shaving down with a nail file. I only did the top part a bit, but you may need more and to shave the sides down a bit just so you can maneuver around the capacitors:
https://i.imgur.com/8zfKXeT.jpg?1


So with all that said and done, I was able to get the connector on just enough for the program to be able to read it. The actual programming part is straightforward and takes a few seconds as Audiogd has said. After that I reassembled and plugged in my music and games and I almost no longer hear any amount of popping! Maybe a very very faint pop here and there, but its like 95% gone and I couldn't be happier! It may even be me, but I thought initially the sound quality was a bit better too. Good luck to those who still have yet to attempt it!
p.s. thx to xevman for answering a few questions I had

you people with post-updated R2R-11 can't imagine how much popping there was if you think there is popping with the postupdated version. tbh it wasn't that bad to begin with, but very there.


----------



## Hunkles (Jul 30, 2018)

maheeinfy said:


> Let me ask the new owners of R2R11.
> https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php


Yeah I hear a little fuzz on the left ear of my HD650 for like 4 seconds, then the last 4 seconds. Barely noticeable though for me and not worth thinking about. Oddly only the left, the right side is fine.


----------



## maheeinfy

Hunkles said:


> Yeah I hear a little fuzz on the left ear of my HD650 for like 4 seconds, then the last 4 seconds. Barely noticeable though for me and not worth thinking about. Oddly only the left, the right side is fine.


Did you run the test slightly louder? if its normal listening volume, then it its not easy to hear the buzz


----------



## Hunkles (Jul 30, 2018)

Okay I listened again with the dial at the 12 clock and it is pretty noticeable in both ears. Fuzz for a few seconds, then fuzz for the last few seconds. Though I don't really have anything to compare to.


----------



## maheeinfy

alota said:


> Sorry to ask: the problem is present with music? ihad r2r-15 in the past without issues, just the famous pop  between tracks. i´m thinking to buy the r2r-11 but now i read about this problem


No problem with music at normal listening volume. But if one listens loud/bass heavy music then it may be a problem(i haven't tested though)


----------



## maheeinfy

Hunkles said:


> Okay I listened again with the dial at the 12 clock and it is pretty noticeable in both ears. Fuzz for a few seconds, then fuzz for the last few seconds. Though I don't really have anything to compare to.


You can run it on your phone for comparision.


----------



## alota

Heavyboxer said:


> No problem with music to my ears. I was completely unaware of this "issue" and I am still listening to the R2R-11 with hd6xx as i type this reply... cypress hill still sounds great, bong sound and all!


Hits from the bong LOL


----------



## gLer

In all my time with the R2R-11 I only ever had issues with DSD ‘noise’ and any other funny noises that appeared in actual music were headphone not amp related. I would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone looking for a great sounding R2R dac with a powerful amp thrown in as a bonus, who doesn’t need or want balanced output, and who doesn’t want to spend twice or three times the cost for little if any extra benefit at normal listening volumes for most genres of music.


----------



## 4mayday (Aug 2, 2018)

Hunkles said:


> The program only works on Windows 7/xp (idk about mac) _(This is not said explicitly from Auidogd, don't try on Win10 less you're a guru)_


I could do this manipulation on Windows 10 (without Virtual box). Don't ask me how.  I just didn't know it's almost impossible.  This version of sofware works on Windows 10: <<press>>


Hunkles said:


> the R2R-11 has _TWO_ DA modules that need to be both updated, seated on top of eachother. This is a major headache reaching the pins on the bottom module because there are about 3 giant capacitors blocking the connector you need to slide on.


I used the single wires connector type to connect each pin (it calls 'cable Dupont') successfully. Although it was a painstaking job to connect every tiny cable to small pins. I was lucky to connect all cables correctly on the first try.
Another way to connect to lower DA module is to slightly bend it's pins upward. But, I didn't dare to do this.


----------



## jacko629

Just got R2R 11. Had it for about a week now. The problem is im getting a very annoying static noise at low volume, high volume, optical. and even when its not plugged into a source. Theres always this white noise in the background and its very annoying. Any suggestions?


----------



## gLer

jacko629 said:


> Just got R2R 11. Had it for about a week now. The problem is im getting a very annoying static noise at low volume, high volume, optical. and even when its not plugged into a source. Theres always this white noise in the background and its very annoying. Any suggestions?


Have you tried another input? USB or coax?


----------



## jacko629 (Jul 31, 2018)

gLer said:


> Have you tried another input? USB or coax?



Yes even with optical. I tried different USB ports on my PC and laptop. With just the power plugged in ( no usb or optical) I hear alot of static around 10 oclock. Is that normal? thinking of maybe plugging it into a surge protector instead of plugging it into the wall. Im not really sure. I read somewhere that some guy unplugged his router and it fixed his problem.


----------



## gLer

jacko629 said:


> Yes even with optical. I tried different USB ports on my PC and laptop. With just the power plugged in ( no usb or optical) I hear alot of static around 10 oclock. Is that normal? thinking of maybe plugging it into a surge protector instead of plugging it into the wall. Im not really sure. I read somewhere that some guy unplugged his router and it fixed his problem.


Definitely sounds like a power-related issue. It's not normal behaviour.


----------



## jacko629

gLer said:


> Definitely sounds like a power-related issue. It's not normal behaviour.


Fixed it. It was the wiring in my outlet. Moved it to another outlet, plugged it into a surge protector and the problem has went away.


----------



## Heavyboxer (Jul 31, 2018)

Static also happened when I pushed the optical out playback quality beyond the unit's abilities.

Pushed optical to 192khz and heard static... spent 15 mins to find what it was and dialed it down to 96khz and it went away.

Oh and I have yet to hear any sort of pop from my 1 week old unit.


----------



## gLer

jacko629 said:


> Fixed it. It was the wiring in my outlet. Moved it to another outlet, plugged it into a surge protector and the problem has went away.


Good to know, thanks for the update.


----------



## JKDJedi

Hunkles said:


> Yeah I hear a little fuzz on the left ear of my HD650 for like 4 seconds, then the last 4 seconds. Barely noticeable though for me and not worth thinking about. Oddly only the left, the right side is fine.


This is so sad!!! My hearing only goes up to 15k.... ;.(


----------



## JaMo

JKDJedi said:


> This is so sad!!! My hearing only goes up to 15k.... ;.(



You can hear and enjoy a lot of really good music below 15kHz. In fact most are there... ; )

/Jan


----------



## Heavyboxer

Above 15khz would be bats chatting


----------



## maheeinfy

Has anyone watched a movie/video when r2r11 is set to its max 32/384 setting in Windows
I played some videos using Powerdvd and Mediaplayer classic and no sound comes from r2r11. I had to tone down the seting to 32/192 to make it work


----------



## JimJames

Hello fellas, so my r2r 11 finally arrived (after almost a month + being hit with customs) and it was plug and play, didn't have to install any drivers (my laptop runs on windows; weren't macs and linux the only ones supposed not to need any drivers?). So anyway, the thing is that a series of pops (similar to the ones you hear on many vinyls but more annoying) occur every 5 seconds or so throughout any song I play (so not between them when bit rate and whatnot might change).

I play music via VLC at 100% (max is 125%) connected via USB 3.0 (even though the USB cable it comes with is 2.0 so there's no benefits there right?),r2r 11 in high gain and then into my AKG K712.

So do I need to update any thing, install any drivers, should I just contact Kingwa? Thanks guys!


----------



## Heavyboxer

JimJames said:


> Hello fellas, so my r2r 11 finally arrived (after almost a month + being hit with customs) and it was plug and play, didn't have to install any drivers (my laptop runs on windows; weren't macs and linux the only ones supposed not to need any drivers?). So anyway, the thing is that a series of pops (similar to the ones you hear on many vinyls but more annoying) occur every 5 seconds or so throughout any song I play (so not between them when bit rate and whatnot might change).
> 
> I play music via VLC at 100% (max is 125%) connected via USB 3.0 (even though the USB cable it comes with is 2.0 so there's no benefits there right?),r2r 11 in high gain and then into my AKG K712.
> 
> So do I need to update any thing, install any drivers, should I just contact Kingwa? Thanks guys!



Try lowering it to a lower bitrate? I had static when I pushed optical all the way to 192khz. Disappeared when lowered to 96khz.


----------



## FredA

JimJames said:


> Hello fellas, so my r2r 11 finally arrived (after almost a month + being hit with customs) and it was plug and play, didn't have to install any drivers (my laptop runs on windows; weren't macs and linux the only ones supposed not to need any drivers?). So anyway, the thing is that a series of pops (similar to the ones you hear on many vinyls but more annoying) occur every 5 seconds or so throughout any song I play (so not between them when bit rate and whatnot might change).
> 
> I play music via VLC at 100% (max is 125%) connected via USB 3.0 (even though the USB cable it comes with is 2.0 so there's no benefits there right?),r2r 11 in high gain and then into my AKG K712.
> 
> So do I need to update any thing, install any drivers, should I just contact Kingwa? Thanks guys!


Install the Amanero driver, it is rather mandatory on PC.


----------



## JimJames

Heavyboxer said:


> Try lowering it to a lower bitrate? I had static when I pushed optical all the way to 192khz. Disappeared when lowered to 96khz.


I have gone to sound configuration, clicked on properties and turned the predetermined setting to 32 bit 96khz. Also there's a bracket that is named something like speed of sampling (velocidad de muestra in spanish) that asks por compatibility with the digital receiver (r2r11 I asume) and I have ticked all the options (that go from 44khz to 192 khz)



FredA said:


> Install the Amanero driver, it is rather mandatory on PC.


After having installed it the popping issue has been diminished quite a bit, now it isn't quite as frequent but still is there and it's annoying, do you have any idea how else I could solve this? I really can't spend any more on a schiit eitr or something like that...


----------



## FredA

JimJames said:


> I have gone to sound configuration, clicked on properties and turned the predetermined setting to 32 bit 96khz. Also there's a bracket that is named something like speed of sampling (velocidad de muestra in spanish) that asks por compatibility with the digital receiver (r2r11 I asume) and I have ticked all the options (that go from 44khz to 192 khz)
> 
> 
> After having installed it the popping issue has been diminished quite a bit, now it isn't quite as frequent but still is there and it's annoying, do you have any idea how else I could solve this? I really can't spend any more on a schiit eitr or something like that...


Try a different usb port, one at the back of the pc. Or try other usb  cables, Or try using Foobar and adjust the output buffer length. Make sure no process is grabbing most of the CPU or usb bandwidth. I am on Windows 10, formerly on Window 7, no issue, whatever the software i use. My music is on the internal disk, so usb is not much sollicited. My guess is the usb port you use is noisy ou you have an issue with you pc or os, Foobar allows obtaining exlusive access to the device, which is a good idea to maximize sound quality.


----------



## JimJames

FredA said:


> Try a different usb port, one at the back of the pc. Or try other usb  cables, Or try using Foobar and adjust the output buffer length. Make sure no process is grabbing most of the CPU or usb bandwidth. I am on Windows 10, formerly on Window 7, no issue, whatever the software i use. My music is on the internal disk, so usb is not much sollicited. My guess is the usb port you use is noisy ou you have an issue with you pc or os, Foobar allows obtaining exlusive access to the device, which is a good idea to maximize sound quality.


How do you adjust the buffer length? Task manager shows CPU working at 10% or lower so I'd asume that's not the matter. I have disconnected all usb from my external HDD where I store my music, and it also happens with youtube tracks. I have tried all 3 usb ports on my laptop (don't have any other computer to try), 2 of them are 3.0 and one is 2.0. It happens in both low and high gain and I have tried putting my laptop's volume at 50% and let the r2r 11 do the work but popping occurs anyway.

Today I'll head to the nearest shop to buy some cheap usb cable, I'm not willing to spend 20-50€ in some audioquest usb cable... 

If it still happens with a different usb cable then what? Try a different power cable? Asume I got a defective product?


----------



## FredA

JimJames said:


> How do you adjust the buffer length? Task manager shows CPU working at 10% or lower so I'd asume that's not the matter. I have disconnected all usb from my external HDD where I store my music, and it also happens with youtube tracks. I have tried all 3 usb ports on my laptop (don't have any other computer to try), 2 of them are 3.0 and one is 2.0. It happens in both low and high gain and I have tried putting my laptop's volume at 50% and let the r2r 11 do the work but popping occurs anyway.
> 
> Today I'll head to the nearest shop to buy some cheap usb cable, I'm not willing to spend 20-50€ in some audioquest usb cable...
> 
> If it still happens with a different usb cable then what? Try a different power cable? Asume I got a defective product?


I would try a different computer, a friend's or something. Install the amanero driver on the other computer first though. I would also want to make sure that nothing is polluting the AC line in a major way. 

To adjust the buffer size, go to File->Prederences->Ouput. There is a slider there called "buffer length". I set it to approx 1s. 

If you still have the problem with a different computer, my guess is your unit has a defect. I doubt it however, especially if the popping noise is on both sides. Try also the optical input if you can.


----------



## Suppa92

Are these Audio GD NFB-11.28 & R2R 11 DacAmps have Class-A amp sections? official website doesn't say anything about it's class.


----------



## spacequeen7

Today I received my second Coax  75 Ohm  RCA with Solid Copper Center (18 Awg to be exact  )  cables ,just want to see if this will make a dent 
Instead of getting some expensive interconnects I decide to try 2x coax 75 omh for my R2R DAC pre -out  and I'm stoked just wow....long story short if you need some cheap interconnect I would recommend this 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-Quad-S...var=570891560795&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Cheers


----------



## MelonHead (Aug 9, 2018)

Has anybody got experience using the R2R-11 as DAC and Darkvoice 336SE as the HP AMP?
I know that our little R2R's sound signature tends to be more "tubey-like", but I'm wondering whether this combo has any advantage/disadvantage over the built-in solid state amp if I use decent tubes in the 336SE.
All replies are well appreciated!


----------



## Heavyboxer

MelonHead said:


> Has anybody got experience using the R2R-11 as DAC and Darkvoice 336SE as the HP AMP?
> I know that our little R2R's sound signature tends to be more "tubey-like", but I'm wondering whether this combo has any advantage/disadvantage over the build-in solid state amp if I use decent tubes in the 336SE.
> All replies are well appreciated!



I use the R2R-11 as DAC/preamp for my lil dot mkii when I listen to older tracks, and it sounds more pleasant to me than when I used my mimby as a DAC.


----------



## spacequeen7

MelonHead said:


> Has anybody got experience using the R2R-11 as DAC and Darkvoice 336SE as the HP AMP?
> I know that our little R2R's sound signature tends to be more "tubey-like", but I'm wondering whether this combo has any advantage/disadvantage over the build-in solid state amp if I use decent tubes in the 336SE.
> All replies are well appreciated!


I ren in to ground loop when pairing with DV 336SE ,this OTL is very picky


----------



## MelonHead

Thanks guys. I"ll test it soon as my DV 336SE just arrived according to the carrier's notification.


----------



## maheeinfy

maheeinfy said:


> Has anyone watched a movie/video when r2r11 is set to its max 32/384 setting in Windows
> I played some videos using Powerdvd and Mediaplayer classic and no sound comes from r2r11. I had to tone down the seting to 32/192 to make it work


Anyone tried this?


----------



## spacequeen7

maheeinfy said:


> Anyone tried this?


R2R11 is capable of 32/384 but it doesn't up-sample,you would need app like JRiver or similar to get that bit-rate


----------



## JKDJedi

JimJames said:


> I have gone to sound configuration, clicked on properties and turned the predetermined setting to 32 bit 96khz. Also there's a bracket that is named something like speed of sampling (velocidad de muestra in spanish) that asks por compatibility with the digital receiver (r2r11 I asume) and I have ticked all the options (that go from 44khz to 192 khz)
> 
> 
> After having installed it the popping issue has been diminished quite a bit, now it isn't quite as frequent but still is there and it's annoying, do you have any idea how else I could solve this? I really can't spend any more on a schiit eitr or something like that...


16bit?


----------



## JKDJedi

Bruc3 said:


> So I just got the NFB 11.28, and currently connected to my computer via USB which works fine.
> 
> I was just curious what sample rate settings I should set it as and 24 or 32 bit?
> 
> ...


It's best, most Falc files top out at 24/192 but why not just go for best?  Your good.


----------



## FredA (Aug 11, 2018)

JKDJedi said:


> It's best, most Falc files top out at 24/192 but why not just go for best?  Your good.


With some dac working with 32 bits native, less work/processing has to be done by the dac chip receiving 32 bits. Meanwhile, receiving 32 bits increases the data transfer throughput. So whatever sounds best is the answer.


----------



## Pharmaboy

USAFPharm86 said:


> After doing some research the Amiron Home look to be my perfect headphone, great sound signature for my music/media tastes. Has anyone tried/tested these with the R2R 11?
> 
> After issues with the sound of the R2R 11 and HD6XX, today I decided to break out the Hifiman HE-500 and they sounded great. The sound opened up and dynamics increased compared to the 6XX. No ear fatigue with the HE-500. The only problem with the Hifiman HE-500 is the weight, I can only use for maybe 30 minutes and they go back in there case. Maybe I will sell the Hifiman HE-500 (never use) and HD6XX and purchase some Amiron Homes.
> 
> ...



FYI, as part of a recent review here of an extensive HD650 mod compared to a stock HD650, I did a lot of listening to both on my 2012 Matrix M-Stage HPA-1 w/the best of all the opamps I rolled, 2X OPA827AIDs on a brown-dog adapter. Very nice sound, fully competitive with other, stronger SS amps on hand.


----------



## JKDJedi

Pharmaboy said:


> FYI, as part of a recent review here of an extensive HD650 mod compared to a stock HD650, I did a lot of listening to both on my 2012 Matrix M-Stage HPA-1 w/the best of all the opamps I rolled, 2X OPA827AIDs on a brown-dog adapter. Very nice sound, fully competitive with other, stronger SS amps on hand.


Headphones are as subjective as your taste in music. Hit and miss is diffrent for everyone.


----------



## JimJames

I've been havig this crackling/poppig issue with my r2r11 since I received it a week or so ago. Today I'll be able to try with a different computer. It is a Mac so those don't need any type of driver to be installed right, or should I start searching for some rivers for iMacs?


----------



## JKDJedi

JimJames said:


> I've been havig this crackling/poppig issue with my r2r11 since I received it a week or so ago. Today I'll be able to try with a different computer. It is a Mac so those don't need any type of driver to be installed right, or should I start searching for some rivers for iMacs?


no driver needed


----------



## Heavyboxer

JimJames said:


> I've been havig this crackling/poppig issue with my r2r11 since I received it a week or so ago. Today I'll be able to try with a different computer. It is a Mac so those don't need any type of driver to be installed right, or should I start searching for some rivers for iMacs?



Are you using optical with 192khz output from your pc? I had thensame thing and when I lowered it to 96khz, the max stated on the website, everything was eerily quiet.


----------



## JimJames

JKDJedi said:


> no driver needed





Heavyboxer said:


> Are you using optical with 192khz output from your pc? I had thensame thing and when I lowered it to 96khz, the max stated on the website, everything was eerily quiet.


Ok so I just tried with my brother's Macbook and it worked flawlessly, plug , choose amanero as output and enjoy.  

So Heavyboxer you're using yours via optical limited to 96khz right? I am using mine via USB, now I am horrible with computers and might be doing it wrong but to change the bitrate and all that what I do is: configuration -> sound -> device properties (Digital output Amanero Technologies USB Driver 1.0.62) -> compatible formats (here there is a section that says sampling rate/ speed with various options from 44.1khz to 192khz, I tick all the options from 44 to 96khz) -> (still inside device properties) advanced options and choose as the predetermined format: channel 2, 24bit, 96000Hz. And that's it. Am I doing something wrong?

Oh and how do you use an optical cable from a laptop? From what I have seen googling you have to use the jack as the output but I'd much rather use another output as the jack in my laptop is kinda messed up (still works fine, but quite often I have to put some pressure on it briefly with my hands when it goes wrong). And what about a coaxial? If it's any easier... 

Thanks for your time people, I still haven't been able to enjoy music through that damn r2r11 which is driving me crazy, but you are very helpful!!


----------



## Heavyboxer

JimJames said:


> Ok so I just tried with my brother's Macbook and it worked flawlessly, plug , choose amanero as output and enjoy.
> 
> So Heavyboxer you're using yours via optical limited to 96khz right? I am using mine via USB, now I am horrible with computers and might be doing it wrong but to change the bitrate and all that what I do is: configuration -> sound -> device properties (Digital output Amanero Technologies USB Driver 1.0.62) -> compatible formats (here there is a section that says sampling rate/ speed with various options from 44.1khz to 192khz, I tick all the options from 44 to 96khz) -> (still inside device properties) advanced options and choose as the predetermined format: channel 2, 24bit, 96000Hz. And that's it. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> ...



I HAD the R2R-11... now it's off my hands and twiddling my fingers till my R28 gets here. (And finding out that my Schiit modi mutilbit has balance issues which takes 3 days of non stop power to correct.)

I connected both optical as well as USB on my unit, mostly to see what would be better. The optical setting should only be till 96khz, but you can max out the usb setting to whatever your pc states. That being said, I can't differentiate between optical 96khz and USB 192Khz... I think that would actually be bat hearing territory anyway.


----------



## Heavyboxer

JimJames said:


> Ok so I just tried with my brother's Macbook and it worked flawlessly, plug , choose amanero as output and enjoy.
> 
> So Heavyboxer you're using yours via optical limited to 96khz right? I am using mine via USB, now I am horrible with computers and might be doing it wrong but to change the bitrate and all that what I do is: configuration -> sound -> device properties (Digital output Amanero Technologies USB Driver 1.0.62) -> compatible formats (here there is a section that says sampling rate/ speed with various options from 44.1khz to 192khz, I tick all the options from 44 to 96khz) -> (still inside device properties) advanced options and choose as the predetermined format: channel 2, 24bit, 96000Hz. And that's it. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> ...



And if you do not have an optical out on your notebook, that's fine, just use your USB.
Headphone output jack to the R2R-11 is a no no...using the headphone jack means you're using the laptop dac. Also, the unit does not have RCA in so no luck there.

For source selection, so long as the device properties -> advanced and to the highest was what I used.


----------



## JKDJedi

JimJames said:


> Ok so I just tried with my brother's Macbook and it worked flawlessly, plug , choose amanero as output and enjoy.
> 
> So Heavyboxer you're using yours via optical limited to 96khz right? I am using mine via USB, now I am horrible with computers and might be doing it wrong but to change the bitrate and all that what I do is: configuration -> sound -> device properties (Digital output Amanero Technologies USB Driver 1.0.62) -> compatible formats (here there is a section that says sampling rate/ speed with various options from 44.1khz to 192khz, I tick all the options from 44 to 96khz) -> (still inside device properties) advanced options and choose as the predetermined format: channel 2, 24bit, 96000Hz. And that's it. Am I doing something wrong?
> 
> ...


I'm assuming you downloaded the driver to your laptop ..right? Try I diffrent USB cable. If that doesnt help, something in your laptop is interfering. Could be the usb outlets themselves, or some device in there just not giving. Try it on a different desktop pc just to be sure.


----------



## Kimchee248

sennsay said:


> Agreed! I have no wanderlust for really expensive cans, I'd just like to hear the Focal Clear, is all  My focus now is on a new tube preamp that I can build after I get some surgery done.


The clear is so awesome coming from a headphone journey from a ath50, hd558, hd598, hd6xx, hd600, monolith m1060, he500 and now current focal clear pro I can say that these are truly my end game . At first these sound closed at my soundstage then as day 2 past the clears showed me that soundstage isn't everything the layering of instruments and detail is ungodly I can hear every instrument the guitar string , symbols., drums , vocals all sound organic and natural to the point that it almost sound like they are giving me a personal performance the clarity is so beautiful unlike all the other cans I previously owned which were all veiled it's like I have been death all my life and finally I can hear everything for the 1st time yes it's quit expensive but it worth it if your serious about a true audiophile experience and a endgame focal clears has spoiled me and I cannot go back to listening to anything else.  Sounds more like am listening to speakers rather than headphones p.s. am pairing it with my nfb11.28 awesome together.


----------



## Chopin75

MelonHead said:


> The upgrade is done on my unit, so let me add my thoughts to yours.
> 
> The process was not as easy as I had been thinking. The implementation of the covering plate is very tight, and doesn't come off easily. On the other hand, we had to bend the connector pins a little to connect the upgrade cable head to the two connectors, as a capacitor blocks the way in some degree. After this, the upgrade took not more than a few minutes, but has to be applied on both connectors!
> I can second, that there is almost no pop sound using PCM tracks. If there is any it's barely noticeable.
> ...


I have similaf issues when playing DSD with my R2R7, mainly pops with changing tracks of different albums/tracks manually and also no level noise usually at beginning of the track with DSD256. I do hope maybe a firmware update with DSD will resolve this like it did with PCM. Did u use I2S or USN input, and using amenero USB board ?


----------



## JSOppenheimer (Aug 30, 2018)

Hi, I have a small problem with the jumper that governs whether the fixed output mode for line out is available or not.







If I understood correctly, you have to move that black jumper outlined in red box to enable the fixed mode. Well, the jumper initially was in the 2 leftmost pins (which is supposed to be variable only), but when I moved it to 2 rightmost pins (supposed to enable variable + fixed) as shown in picture, output switch set to fixed mode still works like it is variable mode, eg. R2R-11's volume still dial affects the output. What am I doing wrong here? Has anyone else had any problems getting the fixed output mode working? I really can't figure out what I'm doing wrong here, and the idea of experimenting around without knowing what I'm doing here makes me nervous.

I guess that there are only 2 things I could do here, but I really don't know:
I) Does it matter which way the jumper is rotated? It probably shouldn't, as isn't it just a dumb interconnect between 2 pins?
II) Am I actually supposed to move that bigger white connector with 3 pins to the right slot from the left slot? I'm not gonna try this out without any confirmation, seems dangerous and probably wrong, and the only reason why I'm even thinking about this is that moving that black bit doesn't seem to do anything.

*EDIT: *Never mind, solved it with quite an unlikely solution! I grabbed an another jumper from the electronics bag that came with R2R-11, I plugged it in the rightmost pins, and bam, now it works like it should in fixed mode. I have no idea why the default jumper didn't work, but only thing that matters is that now it's fine.


----------



## MelonHead

Chopin75 said:


> I have similaf issues when playing DSD with my R2R7, mainly pops with changing tracks of different albums/tracks manually and also no level noise usually at beginning of the track with DSD256. I do hope maybe a firmware update with DSD will resolve this like it did with PCM. Did u use I2S or USN input, and using amenero USB board ?


A few of us had an interesting private conversation, where we had located the problem and evaluated with different chains and source music. Unfortunately not only DSD256, but DSD64 and DSD128 encoded files are affected by this problem as well. If you want to know the details, I can invite you, to this conversation.


----------



## Chopin75

MelonHead said:


> A few of us had an interesting private conversation, where we had located the problem and evaluated with different chains and source music. Unfortunately not only DSD256, but DSD64 and DSD128 encoded files are affected by this problem as well. If you want to know the details, I can invite you, to this conversation.


Yes, please if you can invite me to that conversation, much appreciated.


----------



## elira

MelonHead said:


> A few of us had an interesting private conversation, where we had located the problem and evaluated with different chains and source music. Unfortunately not only DSD256, but DSD64 and DSD128 encoded files are affected by this problem as well. If you want to know the details, I can invite you, to this conversation.


Please add me to the private conversation.


----------



## MarkArtz

MelonHead said:


> A few of us had an interesting private conversation, where we had located the problem and evaluated with different chains and source music. Unfortunately not only DSD256, but DSD64 and DSD128 encoded files are affected by this problem as well. If you want to know the details, I can invite you, to this conversation.


Add me to the private conversation, please. I'd love to learn more about my R2R-11


----------



## gLer

MarkArtz said:


> Add me to the private conversation, please. I'd love to learn more about my R2R-11


This is probably not what you want to learn about it


----------



## gLer

Chopin75 said:


> I have similaf issues when playing DSD with my R2R7, mainly pops with changing tracks of different albums/tracks manually and also no level noise usually at beginning of the track with DSD256.


I’m surprised to hear you’re having DSD noise issues with the R2R-7. I know there’s a firmware fix for the popping noises (and that the older R2R-7 units had this issue) but I was under the impression the R2R-7 (and the R2R-1/2/28) didn’t have any of the R2R-11 DSD noise issues. My R-28 DSD playback is clean, even in NOS mode, while my R2R-11 was a mess with many DSDs. 

Have you upgraded to the latest R2R-7 firmware? I strongly suggest you do, but if you already have then maybe your unit has an issue.

PS. Should probably move this discussion to the AGD R2R-7 or R2R dac threads to stay on topic, unless you want to specifically discuss the R2R-11 DSD issues.


----------



## Chopin75

gLer said:


> I’m surprised to hear you’re having DSD noise issues with the R2R-7. I know there’s a firmware fix for the popping noises (and that the older R2R-7 units had this issue) but I was under the impression the R2R-7 (and the R2R-1/2/28) didn’t have any of the R2R-11 DSD noise issues. My R-28 DSD playback is clean, even in NOS mode, while my R2R-11 was a mess with many DSDs.
> 
> Have you upgraded to the latest R2R-7 firmware? I strongly suggest you do, but if you already have then maybe your unit has an issue.
> 
> PS. Should probably move this discussion to the AGD R2R-7 or R2R dac threads to stay on topic, unless you want to specifically discuss the R2R-11 DSD issues.


I already did discuss this at R2R7. I bought the R2R7 with latrst 2018 firmware - smooth FW, it does not even affecr DSD anyway, I was told.


----------



## gLer

Chopin75 said:


> I already did discuss this at R2R7. I bought the R2R7 with latrst 2018 firmware - smooth FW, it does not even affecr DSD anyway, I was told.


Ok, sorry to hear that. Will check the R2R-7 thread and reply there.


----------



## Chopin75

gLer said:


> Ok, sorry to hear that. Will check the R2R-7 thread and reply there.


Now you use Macmini, audirvana, I am using macbook air 2011, so my computer only has 4G RAM, it could be that I have not enough RAM but I don't think that can explain the Pops which swtching DSD files, no issue with PCM. I will upgrade to Macbook Pro quad core 16 G RAM soon so will see how that goes. DO you use I2S or USB for DSD?


----------



## MelonHead

@elira @Chopin75 @MarkArtz 
Invitations have been sent!


----------



## gLer

Chopin75 said:


> Now you use Macmini, audirvana, I am using macbook air 2011, so my computer only has 4G RAM, it could be that I have not enough RAM but I don't think that can explain the Pops which swtching DSD files, no issue with PCM. I will upgrade to Macbook Pro quad core 16 G RAM soon so will see how that goes. DO you use I2S or USB for DSD?


Replied to this on the R2R-7 thread as it doesn't have anything to do with the R2R-11.


----------



## MattiaTisi

Can anyone tell me the sound difference between audio gd r2r11 and chord mojo


----------



## Anaz (Sep 3, 2018)

MattiaTisi said:


> Can anyone tell me the sound difference between audio gd r2r11 and chord mojo


I have both and can hear the difference between them when they're used as DACs for another amp. They are both warm and musical (is that a term? ... I mean they're not flat and analytical) and I feel the Mojo has less treble but is slightly more resolving.

I can't say one is better than the other, they're both very good and you can't go wrong with either one - it depends on your usage: if you need portability and have easy to drive phones or primarily use IEMs I'd recommend the Mojo and if you need more power I'd recommend the R2R 11 (there isn't a lot of travel on the R2R's volume pot if you have easy to drive phones).


----------



## Chopin75

Anaz said:


> I have both and can hear the difference between them when they're used as DACs for another amp. They are both warm and musical (is that a term? ... I mean they're not flat and analytical) and I feel the Mojo has less treble but is slightly more resolving.
> 
> I can't say one is better than the other, they're both very good and you can't go wrong with either one - it depends on your usage: if you need portability and have easy to drive phones or primarily use IEMs I'd recommend the Mojo and if you need more power I'd recommend the R2R 11 (there isn't a lot of travel on the R2R's volume pot if you have easy to drive phones).


Also, if you read from the R2R thread, there has been issues with playing DSD, noisy back-ground noise etc. Is Chord mojo also R2R ?


----------



## gLer (Sep 3, 2018)

Chopin75 said:


> Also, if you read from the R2R thread, there has been issues with playing DSD, noisy back-ground noise etc. Is Chord mojo also R2R ?


I concur, if you regularly listen to DSD the R2R-11, good as it is, is unfortunately not a good choice. Knocks the socks off the Mojo in terms of power though, and for PCM is an outstanding dac.


----------



## PopZeus

MattiaTisi said:


> Can anyone tell me the sound difference between audio gd r2r11 and chord mojo



It's been awhile since I really listened to a Mojo, but I personally prefer the R2R-11's sound signature to that of Chord's portable gizmo. Strictly speaking in terms of sound characteristics, the Mojo probably specs better than the R2R-11, so it's quieter and has slightly better detail retrieval. But the 11 has a more musical, analog sound. Tuning-wise, the Mojo is flatter, extends into the bottom and top a bit better. The 11 has more bass and less treble than the Mojo, so the profile sounds warmer. The Mojo is more analytical and dynamic sounding, whereas the R2R-11 is smoother and more analog. I don't recall the Mojo having a wide soundstage, so maybe the 11 wins on that. Separation is excellent though, maybe better than 11. Honestly, the accuracy you get from a ladder DAC's multi-bit conversion is unlike anything else in the realm of digital audio. That I've heard.

Of course, as others have said, the optimal use cases for each of these designs is totally different.


----------



## agrumos79

gLer said:


> Hi - DSD playback is excellent, as long as the files you're playing don't have any low-level noise during playback. This affects most of my DSD files that have sections with low or no sound, like classical music and soft acoustic music. The worst so far is Amber Rubarth's Sessions from the 17th Ward SACD, which is unplayable on this dac. That said, if DSD is not a factor for you, or if you're happy to convert DSD to PCM (most software does this on the fly), then the R2R-11 is just about the best amp/dac combo I've heard under $1000.
> 
> The D77 is a fully balanced Sabre dac that costs 3x the price of the R2R-11. It will give you a totally different sound profile. I haven't heard it myself but Sabre days generally don't have any issues with DSD playback. Even the Audio-Gd NFB-11 (same price as R2R-11) will give you perfect noise-free DSD playback. It's only the R2R-11, as far as I know. that has the DSD issue, which is why I no longer play native DSD with it.



Hi, I have the exact same album (Amber Rubarth's Sessions) in DSD, and I can't hear any noise on my R2R-11 + HD 6XX. I use Audirvana Plus, with "Native DSD Capability" set on "Automatic Detection". 
What part of what track do you have issues with? I'm keen to check more carefully.
Thanks


----------



## Chopin75 (Sep 5, 2018)

agrumos79 said:


> Hi, I have the exact same album (Amber Rubarth's Sessions) in DSD, and I can't hear any noise on my R2R-11 + HD 6XX. I use Audirvana Plus, with "Native DSD Capability" set on "Automatic Detection".
> What part of what track do you have issues with? I'm keen to check more carefully.
> Thanks


I am unable to do the native DSD capability! I also use audirvana but it is not able to detect DSd on my r2r7. atctually all becomes PCM on audirvanna, so when u use autodetect it stays as DSD?  u use USB into the R2R?


----------



## agrumos79

Chopin75 said:


> I am unable to do the native DSD capability! I also use audirvana but it is not able to detect DSd on my r2r7. atctually all becomes PCM on audirvanna, so when u use autodetect it stays as DSD?  u use USB into the R2R?


Hmmm, actually if I set "Automatic Detection", DSD stays grey so I assume Audirvana does transpose to PCM. If I force DSD over PCM standard 1.0 or 1.1, DSD64 and DSD128 switch to green and I do hear the artifacts indeed. It works fine with "initial dCS method" but I don't know what that is.
Yes, I use the USB input.


----------



## Heavyboxer (Sep 6, 2018)

Edit: wrong thread, reposted on R-28.


----------



## MelonHead (Sep 6, 2018)

agrumos79 said:


> Hi, I have the exact same album (Amber Rubarth's Sessions) in DSD, and I can't hear any noise on my R2R-11 + HD 6XX. I use Audirvana Plus, with "Native DSD Capability" set on "Automatic Detection".
> What part of what track do you have issues with? I'm keen to check more carefully.
> Thanks


Some of us has tested the Amber Rubarth album, and after proper settings, all of the testers were able to observe the problem.
It was not software specific, as I got the same results both under FB 2000, Album Player, and Jriver with dedicated native DSD playback settings and DoP as well. As soon as I adjusted the parameters to on-the-fly PCM conversion, the problem -as well as the native DSD playback- has disappeared.

@Heavyboxer : Congrats, and enjoy your new Audio-gd R-28!


----------



## agrumos79

MelonHead said:


> Some of us has tested the Amber Rubarth album, and after proper settings, all of the testers were able to observe the problem.
> It was not software specific, as I got the same results both under FB 2000, Album Player, and Jriver with dedicated native DSD playback settings and DoP as well. As soon as I adjusted the parameters to on-the-fly PCM conversion, the problem -as well as the native DSD playback- has disappeared.



Yes, I confirm as well. On the fly conversion to PCM works well and I have very few DSD albums so it's not an issue at all for me.


----------



## gLer

Heavyboxer said:


> So the postman just dropped this off:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks awesome, except you might want to post this in the R-28 thread


----------



## gLer

agrumos79 said:


> Hmmm, actually if I set "Automatic Detection", DSD stays grey so I assume Audirvana does transpose to PCM. If I force DSD over PCM standard 1.0 or 1.1, DSD64 and DSD128 switch to green and I do hear the artifacts indeed. It works fine with "initial dCS method" but I don't know what that is.
> Yes, I use the USB input.


Audirvana doesn’t automatically detect the DSD capability of the Amanero and therefore transcodes to PCM on the fly. You have to set it to DoP 1.0 or 1.1 and it’ll play native DSD (via DoP). Then all of Amber’s issues will be clearly heard


----------



## Heavyboxer

gLer said:


> Looks awesome, except you might want to post this in the R-28 thread


I could've sworn this was the R-28 thread!! sorry about that.

Any moderator who can do it for me? Or must I?


----------



## gLer

Heavyboxer said:


> I could've sworn this was the R-28 thread!! sorry about that.
> 
> Any moderator who can do it for me? Or must I?


Easier just to copy and paste your post into the R-28 thread. If the mods want to delete it off here they can.


----------



## Chopin75

MelonHead said:


> Some of us has tested the Amber Rubarth album, and after proper settings, all of the testers were able to observe the problem.
> It was not software specific, as I got the same results both under FB 2000, Album Player, and Jriver with dedicated native DSD playback settings and DoP as well. As soon as I adjusted the parameters to on-the-fly PCM conversion, the problem -as well as the native DSD playback- has disappeared.
> 
> @Heavyboxer : Congrats, and enjoy your new Audio-gd R-28!


The R2R11 is not designed to play DSD256 well, due to lack of FPGA. I have no issue with Amber DSD128 on R2R7.


----------



## Chopin75

agrumos79 said:


> Hmmm, actually if I set "Automatic Detection", DSD stays grey so I assume Audirvana does transpose to PCM. If I force DSD over PCM standard 1.0 or 1.1, DSD64 and DSD128 switch to green and I do hear the artifacts indeed. It works fine with "initial dCS method" but I don't know what that is.
> Yes, I use the USB input.


This pertains to all Audirvanna users for all R2Rs audio -GD
DCS method is also PCM, I tried. - the L corner of Audirvanna shows whether your DAC is receiving DSD or PCM and the sampling rate etc. Should check that corner all the time since R2Rs do not have display of sampling or DSD vs PCM. Do the new R2Rs that have display panel show the sampling rate etc??


----------



## gLer

Chopin75 said:


> The R2R11 is not designed to play DSD256 well, due to lack of FPGA. I have no issue with Amber DSD128 on R2R7.


No issues with Amber on the R-28 either. On the R2R-11 it’s a mess.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Sep 6, 2018)

gLer said:


> No issues with Amber on the R-28 either. On the R2R-11 it’s a mess.


No .it's not a "mess" if you on Windows and output PCM for DSD 256 and higher you are fine ..I think you prefer PCM over DSD on R28 how this end up working for you since both units use Amanero ?

EDIT; you keep comparing pure NOS vs. hybrid...... $350 unit vs.3x the price ..kinda silly


----------



## elira

spacequeen7 said:


> No .it's not a "mess" if you on Windows and output PCM for DSD 256 and higher you are fine ..I think you prefer PCM over DSD on R28 how this end up working for you since both units use Amanero ?


I think the R28 has an additional stage for OS that seems to be eliminating the issues of the amanero board, the R2R11 is directly coupled so no additional FPGA to solve those issues.


----------



## spacequeen7

Exactly ,comparing both is no right


----------



## gLer

spacequeen7 said:


> No .it's not a "mess" if you on Windows and output PCM for DSD 256 and higher you are fine ..I think you prefer PCM over DSD on R28 how this end up working for you since both units use Amanero ?
> 
> EDIT; you keep comparing pure NOS vs. hybrid...... $350 unit vs.3x the price ..kinda silly


Of course if you output PCM it’s fine. The R2R-11 only has issues with native DSD. The R-28 has no such issues, and price has nothing to do with it. Regardless the R2R-11 is an excellent choice for anyone who wants a top quality R2R dac. There’s nothing that I’ve heard that comes close even at twice the price. 

Yes I’ve conpared the R-28 to the R2R-11 because I’ve personally used both and upgraded from one to the other. I’ve mostly compared it in response to people asking what the differences are and if the upgrade is worth the 3x price differential, which in my opinion it is.

Not sure what you mean by NOS vs hybrid NOS. Both the R2R-11 and R-28 are discrete NOS ladder dacs. The R-28 has OS  modes as well, but that doesn’t make it a hybrid. When using NOS it’s as much a NOS dac as the R2R-11.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Sep 6, 2018)

gLer said:


> Of course if you output PCM it’s fine. The R2R-11 only has issues with native DSD. The R-28 has no such issues, and price has nothing to do with it. Regardless the R2R-11 is an excellent choice for anyone who wants a top quality R2R dac. There’s nothing that I’ve heard that comes close even at twice the price.
> 
> Yes I’ve conpared the R-28 to the R2R-11 because I’ve personally used both and upgraded from one to the other. I’ve mostly compared it in response to people asking what the differences are and if the upgrade is worth the 3x price differential, which in my opinion it is.
> 
> Not sure what you mean by NOS vs hybrid NOS. Both the R2R-11 and R-28 are discrete NOS ladder dacs. The R-28 has OS  modes as well, but that doesn’t make it a hybrid. When using NOS it’s as much a NOS dac as the R2R-11.



All I'm saying is if you go as far as comparing both you should tell the whole story ,..compare them both in NOS mode

EDIT;I don't see how one be better then the other when both use same interface in NOS


----------



## gLer

elira said:


> I think the R28 has an additional stage for OS that seems to be eliminating the issues of the amanero board, the R2R11 is directly coupled so no additional FPGA to solve those issues.


You could be right, although some users of the R2R-1 and R2R-7 have also reported some DSD noise issues, and both those units share the FPGA circuit of the R-28. And for the record, if the FPGA eliminates DSD noise, and you’re a regular DSD user, wouldn’t you want to know if the dac you’re buying has issues with DSD playback? That’s what these forums are for - to report back experiences and issues. It’s not my opinion that the R2R-11 has DSD playback issues, it’s a fact. That doesn’t make it a bad product. I don’t see how comparing it to the R-28 is a problem. You generally get what you pay for.


----------



## gLer (Sep 6, 2018)

spacequeen7 said:


> All I'm saying is if you go as far as comparing both you should tell the whole story ,..compare them both in NOS mode
> 
> EDIT;I don't see how one be better then the other when both use same interface in NOS


NOS just means it doesn’t oversample the sound. It doesn’t make the two units equal. There are many reasons why the R-28 produces better quality output than the R2R-11, including a bigger power supply, fully balanced circuit and a far more powerful and transparent amp. And, yes, the FPGA circuit, which improves the accuracy and detail of the ladder dac.

And for the record the R-28 has zero DSD issues in NOS mode.


----------



## spacequeen7

gLer said:


> NOS just means it doesn’t oversample the sound. It doesn’t make the two units equal. There are many reasons why the R-28 produces better quality output than the R2R-11, including a bigger power supply, fully balanced circuit and a far more powerful and transparent amp. And, yes, the FPGA circuit, which improves the accuracy and detail of the ladder dac.
> 
> And for the record the R-28 has zero DSD issues in NOS mode.



I might have to get one then ..I need to ask Kingwa see how he explains this and why R2R11 still have this issue


----------



## gLer

spacequeen7 said:


> I might have to get one then ..I need to ask Kingwa see how he explains this and why R2R11 still have this issue


Most likely (and I’m only guessing) because the FPGA is essentially a DSP that clears up any noise issues and improves other aspects of the sound as well. It also corrects any ‘errors’ from the R2R arrays, possibly including some DSD noise. 

Since the R2R-11 doesn’t have the benefit of the FPGA, you’re hearing exactly what comes off the dac, unfiltered and not as rigorously corrected. 

Can’t be sure that’s the case, but it would make sense if it is. Sure you pay more for it, but in my opinion it’s worth the extra cost.


----------



## spacequeen7

gLer said:


> Most likely (and I’m only guessing) because the FPGA is essentially a DSP that clears up any noise issues and improves other aspects of the sound as well. It also corrects any ‘errors’ from the R2R arrays, possibly including some DSD noise.
> 
> Since the R2R-11 doesn’t have the benefit of the FPGA, you’re hearing exactly what comes off the dac, unfiltered and not as rigorously corrected.
> 
> Can’t be sure that’s the case, but it would make sense if it is. Sure you pay more for it, but in my opinion it’s worth the extra cost.



That's what makes it "true NOS" ,like I mention R2R11 doesn't have  any opamp or filtering in the circle or FPGA for that matter ,two very different units in my opinion


----------



## gLer

spacequeen7 said:


> That's what makes it "true NOS" ,like I mention R2R11 doesn't have  any opamp or filtering in the circle or FPGA for that matter ,two very different units in my opinion


I’m still not sure what you mean by “true NOS”. And yes they are very different units. I don’t think anyone can claim otherwise.


----------



## spacequeen7

gLer said:


> I’m still not sure what you mean by “true NOS”. And yes they are very different units. I don’t think anyone can claim otherwise.


From R2R11 description (explained what it means in previous post )


----------



## gLer

spacequeen7 said:


> From R2R11 description (explained what it means in previous post )


I don’t think you quite understand what NOS means. It means there’s no oversampling happening to the music files. Whether or not you filter it afterwards or even upsample it in Audirvana or on the PC (which you should do, by the way, if you’re using a NOS dac), it’s still a ‘true NOS’ dac, just like the R-28 is a ‘true NOS’ dac in any of its three NOS modes.

NOS in and of itself is not ‘better’ than OS, just different. The main advantage is eliminating some of the digital ‘glare’ or ringing that typically comes with oversampling delta sigma dacs (the R2R topology helps here too). The disadvantage is that some noise can get through to the audible spectrum, which is where an analog filter or some upsampling in the PC can help. 

Anything that can help eliminate noise from the chain while maintaining the advantage of the NOS sound is a benefit. If the R2R-11 had these extra goodies (like the FPGA, which is mainly useful for jitter correction), it would be a better dac, but it would also cost more. It would still be true NOS, just better.

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

For those looking to purchase an R2R-11, I've had this unit since last year so its most likely fully burned in, but strangely I feel it keeps getting better. Sometimes I had thoughts of what if I went with the NFB instead of the R2R, but the musicality! Makes you bop your head with every track, and there's a feeling in your chest, like it leaves you breathless and your heart crunches up (in a good way). If I had to describe how I feel when listening to the R2R-11 it would be like sitting in a golden throne, in space, wearing a silk robe, eating peanut and caramel ice cream with warm gooey syrup while girls massage my feet and shoulders. 

One thing concerning me was if the usb port of my iMac isn't up to par, I read a few articles and covered the 5v thing on the connector, which I think made the sound better, but who knows. So I am considering getting a Schiit Eitr as people have said that it takes the R2R up a notch, but it already sounds so good! Can anyone confirm?


----------



## FredA (Sep 7, 2018)

Lushy Brushy said:


> For those looking to purchase an R2R-11, I've had this unit since last year so its most likely fully burned in, but strangely I feel it keeps getting better. Sometimes I had thoughts of what if I went with the NFB instead of the R2R, but the musicality! Makes you bop your head with every track, and there's a feeling in your chest, like it leaves you breathless and your heart crunches up (in a good way). If I had to describe how I feel when listening to the R2R-11 it would be like sitting in a golden throne, in space, wearing a silk robe, eating peanut and caramel ice cream with warm gooey syrup while girls massage my feet and shoulders.
> 
> One thing concerning me was if the usb port of my iMac isn't up to par, I read a few articles and covered the 5v thing on the connector, which I think made the sound better, but who knows. So I am considering getting a Schiit Eitr as people have said that it takes the R2R up a notch, but it already sounds so good! Can anyone confirm?


Not sure it will help. My experience is it sounds great with just decent usb and power cables. Can't see what can be improved. When it sounds right, it sounds right. I use at the office with a budget hp set on purpose cause if i used a top one, i would not be able to do my work, i would be taken by  music.


----------



## Chopin75

The  schiit eitr is rather interesting. It has 2 separate clocks for 44 and 48 hz PCM, and that supposedly is better. It is supposed to be one of the or the best DDC around, but can’t do I2s though not an issue with R2R 11 as it has no such input, can’t do DSD. But seems a perfect gear if u don’t have a great USB boad and don’t care about DXD. I wonder if it will beat F-1 internal board. It is supposed to be better than Singxer-su when Its i2s is not used snd without linear DC power supply mod. Its clock may be better than singxer’s. If u have fhe amanero board which uses an inferior clock apparently, the schiit likely beats it but who knows.


----------



## sennsay

Lushy Brushy said:


> For those looking to purchase an R2R-11, I've had this unit since last year so its most likely fully burned in, but strangely I feel it keeps getting better. Sometimes I had thoughts of what if I went with the NFB instead of the R2R, but the musicality! Makes you bop your head with every track, and there's a feeling in your chest, like it leaves you breathless and your heart crunches up (in a good way). If I had to describe how I feel when listening to the R2R-11 it would be like sitting in a golden throne, in space, wearing a silk robe, eating peanut and caramel ice cream with warm gooey syrup while girls massage my feet and shoulders.
> 
> One thing concerning me was if the usb port of my iMac isn't up to par, I read a few articles and covered the 5v thing on the connector, which I think made the sound better, but who knows. So I am considering getting a Schiit Eitr as people have said that it takes the R2R up a notch, but it already sounds so good! Can anyone confirm?


Now _*that's*_ the kind of listening impressions I like! No continuing posts arguing about the technical details backwards and forwards and backwards again, over and over ... sigh - just check out a couple of the other threads! Left-brained beginners constantly banging on about measurements on their $200 DACs that are sooo much better than than the Yggy etc ... and not a lot of actual musical listening (which is heart-based, not head stuff involving just the ears and comparing graphs). 
I write about the joy I receive from a well set-up system(s) that often takes time to bring out the best in it(them) and Lushy Brushy, you are a breath of fresh air. 
Thanks for the entertaining listening impressions!  Great stuff. 
 I too thoroughly enjoy both the R2R as a complete unit (haven't done the 5V thing, a Jitterbug in the line with the Kimber USB cable is all), as a DAC via some very fine silver interconnects to a Magni 3, or the Schiit stack on it's own, fed via optical cable from my QP1R. The venerable Sennheiser HD540 Ref1s doing the honours with all combos. The R2R and the Mimby are both brilliant yet different, the wonderful Amanero Combo USB input on the seemingly a little more alive than the optical input and the reverse being true for me with the Mimby. 
 I'm very happy you are having a ball! I also would agree with the running in process for the R2R ... long! Subtle, yet there all the same. Your descriptions of the R2R are ... unique  ... while being remarkably accurate. The R2R is on the lusher side of neutrally transparent and yes, with the shoulder massage included  The Mimby goes in the other direction, not lean, but less golden syrupy, more transparent in the top end and 3D. Both are pure delight! Love it. 
Can't help you with the Schiit Eitr though. I run the said Kimber/Jitterbug straight out of the MacBook (and MacBook Pro when it eventually comes back from service!) and have only silence.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> Not sure it will help. My experience is it sounds great with just decent usb and power cables. Can't see what can be improved. When it sounds right, it sounds right. I use at the office with a budget hp set on purpose cause if i used a top one, i would not be able to do my work, i would be taken by  music.


Agreed. That's all I use for fantastic results. A much better than stock shielded mains cable (Furutech plugs), Jitterbug and Kimber USB cable. Quiet, hum free, great music.


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> Agreed. That's all I use for fantastic results. A much better than stock shielded mains cable (Furutech plugs), Jitterbug and Kimber USB cable. Quiet, hum free, great music.


yep. Got a jitterbug too!


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Sep 8, 2018)

Well that's great that would save me some money! Jitterbug is relatively unexpensive, Kimber is not available here is Australia so it would be an Audioquest forest USB, and I have no clue as to what mains cable I need, I was mainly concerned about the usb output, but if it improves the sound throw it in the basket


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> Not sure it will help. My experience is it sounds great with just decent usb and power cables. Can't see what can be improved. When it sounds right, it sounds right. I use at the office with a budget hp set on purpose cause if i used a top one, i would not be able to do my work, i would be taken by  music.


+1. I use a custom power cable but honestly can’t tell the difference from stock. Same with the USB cable, although I do have an ifi iSilencer that eliminates any noise, jitter and clock issues, should there be any. Again, can’t really notice a difference with or without. 

That was all with my R2R-11... the only thing I was ‘missing’ from its otherwise superb sound was a balanced amp (it does make a difference with the right headphones), and better detail retrieval from the dac/amp (the R2R-11 has plenty but sometimes that honey goo can be a bit too much of a good thing and some minor details are smoothed over).

I really wanted Kingwa to make a bigger ‘R2R-11’ with all these things (he did it for his SD dacs with the NFB-28), but at the time he said he’d never do it for R2R. And then he did, with the R-28, and even though you may not be able to imagine what and how the R2R-11 sound and features can be improved (I couldn’t either at the time), the truth is it can, and in a very satisfying way.

Imagine the same beautiful R2R-11 sound, only bigger, better, more refined, more musical and revealing, with even less noise and a blacker than black background. That’s the R-28. If you love the R2R-11 and want an endgame upgrade, that’s the one. 

And if you think the R2R-11 *is* endgame, that’s awesome, because it very much can be, especially with properly matched headphones.


----------



## FredA

Lushy Brushy said:


> Well that's great that would save me some money! Jitterbug is relatively unexpensive, Kimber is not available here is Australia so it would be an Audioquest forest USB, and I have no clue as to what mains cable I need, I was mainly concerned about the usb output, but if it improves the sound throw it in the basket


I use a 20$ schiit usb cable, which is actually a Straightwire. And as power cable, just a hw store one with black rubber jacket, but 14awg. About 20$ as well.


----------



## nickv

Very new to the headphone and headphone amp world. I'm considering either the NFB-11.28 or the R2R-11 to pair with the soon to be released Verum 1 Planars. Since price-wise there's not much between these two units should I consider the type of music I listen to as an important factor? If so, I like a broad range of music, but a big percentage is electronic/experimental/idm where I really do appreciate both the micro-details (pops, glitches, textures) and the low-end frequencies. Would either of these units lend themselves better than the other to provide me this?


----------



## Gambitek

nickv said:


> Very new to the headphone and headphone amp world. I'm considering either the NFB-11.28 or the R2R-11 to pair with the soon to be released Verum 1 Planars. Since price-wise there's not much between these two units should I consider the type of music I listen to as an important factor? If so, I like a broad range of music, but a big percentage is electronic/experimental/idm where I really do appreciate both the micro-details (pops, glitches, textures) and the low-end frequencies. Would either of these units lend themselves better than the other to provide me this?



I liked the R2R-11 way more. Sounded more organic with less digital glare.  Also the sub-bass kicks harder, harder than the 11.28 and even the R-28. Maybe the 11.28 had more microdetail, but to me it just sounded ...fake.


----------



## Nickol

spacequeen7 said:


> I might have to get one then ..I need to ask Kingwa see how he explains this and why R2R11 still have this issue



so ask him! We are all interested in whether you get a clear answer, or no


----------



## nickv (Sep 10, 2018)

Gambitek said:


> I liked the R2R-11 way more. Sounded more organic with less digital glare.  Also the sub-bass kicks harder, harder than the 11.28 and even the R-28. Maybe the 11.28 had more microdetail, but to me it just sounded ...fake.


Thank you. It's that reported difference in micro-detail which is my reservation about going for the R2R-11. I've not had the pleasure of listening to either unit so I'm wondering how big that difference is? Is it stark/very noticeably different?

I should of mentioned I also like lush, deep reverbs and ambient pads. Perhaps the 'musicality' and relative warmth of the R2R-11 will lend itself better there? On the other hand I also think of the more austere, clinical tracks, let's say Autechre, Alva Noto, Kraftwerk, where I wouldn't really want to warm anything up.


----------



## gLer

Gambitek said:


> I liked the R2R-11 way more. Sounded more organic with less digital glare.  Also the sub-bass kicks harder, harder than the 11.28 and even the R-28. Maybe the 11.28 had more microdetail, but to me it just sounded ...fake.


Agree with this summary 100%.


----------



## gLer

nickv said:


> Thank you. It's that reported difference in micro-detail which is my reservation about going for the R2R-11. I've not had the pleasure of listening to either unit so I'm wondering how big that difference is? Is it stark/very noticeably different?
> 
> I should of mentioned I also like lush, deep reverbs and ambient pads. Perhaps the 'musicality' and relative warmth of the R2R-11 will lend itself better there? On the other hand I also think of the more austere, clinical tracks, let's say Autechre, where I wouldn't really want to warm anything up.


You won’t be missing much microdetail in the R2R-11, but what you might miss you’ll find in the R-28 (for thrice the money, of course). I wouldn’t give up the musicality of the R2R-11 for a smidge more detail in the 11.28, especially for the type of music you’re into.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Sep 10, 2018)

nickv said:


> Very new to the headphone and headphone amp world. I'm considering either the NFB-11.28 or the R2R-11 to pair with the soon to be released Verum 1 Planars. Since price-wise there's not much between these two units should I consider the type of music I listen to as an important factor? If so, I like a broad range of music, but a big percentage is electronic/experimental/idm where I really do appreciate both the micro-details (pops, glitches, textures) and the low-end frequencies. Would either of these units lend themselves better than the other to provide me this?


I listen to similar music and and passed on Verum 1 since it was only reviewed by Z and the HP only paired well  with one particular amp ,if you in to EDM ,DUB ,electronic's etc. I would recommend fast ,"fun" and dynamic headphones
like HD58x  or TH-900 ,both Sabre based 11.28 or R2R 11 will do fine ,I still prefer R2R DAC over Sabre based DAC like my D50 .. it seams  R2R DAC have "W" shape tonality (just my opinion),it's more livelier then analytical Sabre


----------



## Chopin75

nickv said:


> Thank you. It's that reported difference in micro-detail which is my reservation about going for the R2R-11. I've not had the pleasure of listening to either unit so I'm wondering how big that difference is? Is it stark/very noticeably different?
> 
> I should of mentioned I also like lush, deep reverbs and ambient pads. Perhaps the 'musicality' and relative warmth of the R2R-11 will lend itself better there? On the other hand I also think of the more austere, clinical tracks, let's say Autechre, Alva Noto, Kraftwerk, where I wouldn't really want to warm anything up.


I won't describe ESS sabre chips as lush and warm and musical but clinical and analytical. However, I only listened to the ESS 9018 chips. Perhaps the ESS 9028 is improved. Exasound apparently makes great DAC but costs > $3000. Not sure if one can make a Sabre chip sound good under $400. Also Sabre can do DSD much better at this price since apparently R2R11 just can't do DSD 64 well with all the noise etc.


----------



## FredA

nickv said:


> Thank you. It's that reported difference in micro-detail which is my reservation about going for the R2R-11. I've not had the pleasure of listening to either unit so I'm wondering how big that difference is? Is it stark/very noticeably different?
> 
> I should of mentioned I also like lush, deep reverbs and ambient pads. Perhaps the 'musicality' and relative warmth of the R2R-11 will lend itself better there? On the other hand I also think of the more austere, clinical tracks, let's say Autechre, Alva Noto, Kraftwerk, where I wouldn't really want to warm anything up.


The r2r 11 still has a lot of details. I would favor the nfb11.38 over the nfb11.28, for a little more money.


----------



## CoFire

Gambitek said:


> I liked the R2R-11 way more. Sounded more organic with less digital glare.  Also the sub-bass kicks harder, harder than the 11.28 and even the R-28. Maybe the 11.28 had more microdetail, but to me it just sounded ...fake.



Wait? What? The R2R-11 subbass kicks harder than the R-28? Is that only for planars? What headphones confirmed this? Is this a driver control result or amp tuning?


----------



## Gambitek

CoFire said:


> Wait? What? The R2R-11 subbass kicks harder than the R-28? Is that only for planars? What headphones confirmed this? Is this a driver control result or amp tuning?



Using my ZMF Auteur Blackwood. It's quite noticable. Overall the R28 is superior in many dimensions (soundstage, clarity, bass control), but the R2R-11 has this enjoyable distortion in the mids or something that makes it addicting. And way more sub bass. R28 has better controlled and precise bass. It's noticeably higher res, esp with 8X OS.


----------



## CoFire

Gambitek said:


> Using my ZMF Auteur Blackwood. It's quite noticable. Overall the R28 is superior in many dimensions (soundstage, clarity, bass control), but the R2R-11 has this enjoyable distortion in the mids or something that makes it addicting. And way more sub bass. R28 has better controlled and precise bass. It's noticeably higher res, esp with 8X OS.



Were you able to AB these side by side? Do you think the R-28 subbass would get better by selecting a different mode? Just surprised at this and @gLer 100% agreement. 

How strong of a recommendation do you give the R-28 over the R2R-11 for driving planars and dynamics, let's say Auteur/HEX V2 (if you have the Blackwood/Brass, nice!) and less if you've heard other headphones on those dac/amps?


----------



## xenithon

To add my 2c worth, I previously owned an Atticus, currently an Auteur. Also previously owned an R2R-11 and now an R-28. I consider both upgrades, perhaps the latter more considerable and the former perhaps more personal preference.

I enjoyed the Atticus's fun factor and detailed yet musically pleasing sound. Ultimately the mid-bass was a little excessive for me. It was better on the R-28, which may be due to it being better controlled than the R-28 or due to the inherent euphonic / syrupy / thick nature of the R2R-11. With the Auteur, in particular on the R-28, I found more than enough bass, and when called for on the recording, prodigious sub-bass.

In addition to pairing with the Auteur, I find it a marvelous companion to the LCD-3 and the HD800. That is something I cannot say of the R2R-11. As good as it was (and believe when I say it was stupifyingly good, especially for the price), the 28 has a chameleon like property that brings the best out of various headphones irrespective of their often wildly varying sonic and electrical characteristics.


----------



## Gambitek

CoFire said:


> Were you able to AB these side by side? Do you think the R-28 subbass would get better by selecting a different mode? Just surprised at this and @gLer 100% agreement.
> 
> How strong of a recommendation do you give the R-28 over the R2R-11 for driving planars and dynamics, let's say Auteur/HEX V2 (if you have the Blackwood/Brass, nice!) and less if you've heard other headphones on those dac/amps?



Yeah, I was able to blind A/B between R28 8XOS and and R2R-11. R28 NOS vs R2R-11 was harder unless the song was real subbass crazy...then I could pick out the R2R-11 as having more.

I haven't listened to planars outside of the LCD2C and LCD2, and neither with the R-28. I did like the R28, it was just HUGE and my microwave broke so I decided to sell it so I could buy a new microwave. I think the R2R-11 is giving you 80% of the performance of the R28. The R28 is just super resolving and in control; more holographic. But for sweet mids and harder subbass, the R2R-11 is better. It doesn't distract with me so much detail and I just have fun.


----------



## gLer

CoFire said:


> Were you able to AB these side by side? Do you think the R-28 subbass would get better by selecting a different mode? Just surprised at this and @gLer 100% agreement.
> 
> How strong of a recommendation do you give the R-28 over the R2R-11 for driving planars and dynamics, let's say Auteur/HEX V2 (if you have the Blackwood/Brass, nice!) and less if you've heard other headphones on those dac/amps?


While the R2R-11 is definitely more meaty in the bass department, it comes at the price of refinement, control and resolution. That’s not to say the R2R-11 isn’t refined, controlled or resolving, just that the R-28 is the next level up. I’ve found in the ‘audiophile’ world, refinement more often than not comes at the cost of bass quantity, because reduce the bass and suddenly you’re hearing details in the mids and highs that were previously ‘masked’. Again that’s not to say hefty bass is a bad thing, it’s all a matter of balance and taste.

I don’t for a second consider the R-28 to be lacking bass - in fact I prefer the more refined and textured bass presentation of the R-28 over the punch of the R2R-11. That said, I didn’t like what the R-28 did to the Atticus. It lowered the midbass bloom that gives the Atticus its charm and weight on the R2R-11 into a much more refined presentation that, frankly, was matched by my other headphones, and so to have a $800+ headphone not doing anything unique on my system meant it had to go, sadly.

I agree with @xenithon that the R-28 is a versatile chameleon. It’s perfectly adapted to both the dynamic Elear and planar LCD-3, making them sound better, wider, deeper and more resolved than with any other amp or dac I’ve owned or auditioned before. Both were great with the R2R-11, but the jump is resolution, control, imaging and staging was most noticeable on both with the move to the R-28.

Unlike @Gambitek I prefer the R-28 in NOS 3 mode because it sounds closest to the R2R-11 sound (which I loved) - just with the added benefits mentioned above. If you like your sound even more resolving and refined, OS 8x will give you that, but it will cost you in bass heft. NOS restores much of the bass heft without sacrificing much else (although not enough to save my poor Atticus from the classifieds).


----------



## gLer

Gambitek said:


> I did like the R28, it was just HUGE and my microwave broke so I decided to sell it so I could buy a new microwave.


That’s one of the funniest things I’ve read in here for a while


----------



## ProLoL

I'm trying to make the fixed mode work instead of being on variable all the time. I need to push the jumper to the right side though I got nothing I can push to the right like shown in their website in the pictures. Any suggestions?


----------



## FredA (Sep 11, 2018)

Remove the jumper and try scrapping off the glue with the tip of a small flat screwdriver. Be gentle. Probably preventing electrical contact. If not coming off, use 99% alcool on a q-tip to soften the glue.


----------



## ProLoL

So I basically need to detach it and attach on the right side + glue it?


----------



## FredA

No, on the contrary. The jumper is correctly positioned in your picture. The point is all the glue inside the white socket and possibly on the pins has to be removed.


----------



## ProLoL

Currently the fixed mode works like the variable. In fixed mode the volume knob shouldn't be effecting the volume like in variable, the solution according to audio GD is to "push" it to the right, not sure if removing the glue will solve it besides making it loose.


----------



## FredA

You are right, install it on the right. Sorry for misleading. Don't put any glue. Scrapping off the glue inside the socket is still  a good idea but may not be necessary.


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> You are right, install it on the right. Sorry for misleading. Don't put any glue. Scrapping off the glue inside the socket is still  a good idea but may not be necessary.


What did I miss? Why is there glue in the socket? Is that a manufacturing defect? Mine never had glue like that and it was simply a matter of moving the jumper from all the way to the left to all the way to the right. Personally if mine had glue like that in the way of the jumper I’d return it under warranty to get it fixed.


----------



## FredA

gLer said:


> What did I miss? Why is there glue in the socket? Is that a manufacturing defect? Mine never had glue like that and it was simply a matter of moving the jumper from all the way to the left to all the way to the right. Personally if mine had glue like that in the way of the jumper I’d return it under warranty to get it fixed.


I would sure not ship back a gear for some glue in a socket, which is likely without consequence in that case. Too much a pain and can be fixed easily.


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> I would sure not ship back a gear for some glue in a socket, which is likely without consequence in that case. Too much a pain and can be fixed easily.


I’m surprised it passed QA in that condition. AGD is usually so meticulous.


----------



## Chopin75

Gambitek said:


> Using my ZMF Auteur Blackwood. It's quite noticable. Overall the R28 is superior in many dimensions (soundstage, clarity, bass control), but the R2R-11 has this enjoyable distortion in the mids or something that makes it addicting. And way more sub bass. R28 has better controlled and precise bass. It's noticeably higher res, esp with 8X OS.


Does the R2R11 have NOS1 to NOS3 ? or just one NOS mode? Is the filtering done different form R28 or R2R7? There is no FPGA in R2R11


----------



## gLer

Chopin75 said:


> Does the R2R11 have NOS1 to NOS3 ? or just one NOS mode? Is the filtering done different form R28 or R2R7? There is no FPGA in R2R11


Just NOS, no FPGA, no balanced, smaller PSU, but a deliciously punchy, slightly warmer sound than neutral.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Gambitek said:


> it was just HUGE and my microwave broke so I decided to sell it so I could buy a new microwave.



But...how does the Microwave sound?



Gambitek said:


> I did like the R28, it was just HUGE and my microwave broke so I decided to sell it so I could buy a new microwave.


----------



## FredA

Pharmaboy said:


> But...how does the Microwave sound?


That's the obvious question to ask.


----------



## Anaz

gLer said:


> What did I miss? Why is there glue in the socket? Is that a manufacturing defect? Mine never had glue like that and it was simply a matter of moving the jumper from all the way to the left to all the way to the right. Personally if mine had glue like that in the way of the jumper I’d return it under warranty to get it fixed.



My R2R 11 also had a dab of glue to keep the jumper in place ... after I moved the jumper it’s a little loose without the glue but remained in place when I transported the R2R to the office.


----------



## FredA

Anaz said:


> My R2R 11 also had a dab of glue to keep the jumper in place ... after I moved the jumper it’s a little loose without the glue but remained in place when I transported the R2R to the office.


Maybe the glue is out there tu sustain transport. A tighter jumper would be better i guess.


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> Maybe the glue is out there tu sustain transport. A tighter jumper would be better i guess.


I’ve never heard of a jumper having to be glued down. That’s the whole point of a jumper - to sit tight.


----------



## Anaz (Sep 11, 2018)

FredA said:


> Maybe the glue is out there tu sustain transport. A tighter jumper would be better i guess.



Yes, the glue is probably for shipping because the jumper may get dislodged if the package is knocked around.



gLer said:


> I’ve never heard of a jumper having to be glued down. That’s the whole point of a jumper - to sit tight.



Me too - I configured jumpers on motherboards back in the day and those were snug when installed.  ...It's a non-issue though, because like I said the jumper remained in place when I took my R2R to the office.


----------



## FredA

gLer said:


> I’ve never heard of a jumper having to be glued down. That’s the whole point of a jumper - to sit tight.



Those white sockets have pretty much all glue on them to prevent the connected cables to come loose during shipping. They possibly do the same for the jumpers. All to avoid DOA cases. They could use connector with lock mechanisms, they don't for some reason.


----------



## ProLoL (Sep 12, 2018)

Anaz said:


> My R2R 11 also had a dab of glue to keep the jumper in place ... after I moved the jumper it’s a little loose without the glue but remained in place when I transported the R2R to the office.



I've contacted magna hifi and they said it's for shipping purposes. Currently trying to pull it upwards but stuck pretty good.


----------



## FredA

ProLoL said:


> I've contacted magna hifi and they said it's for shipping purposes. Currently trying to pull it upwards but stuck pretty good.


You don't have to remove it if everything works fine.


----------



## ProLoL

I want to use it as a dac in my system and don't want to control two volume knobs. The fixed mode should disable the volume knob and provide a constant 2.5v in high gain or 1.5v in low if I'm not mistaken. Currently the fixed mode works like the variable mode.


----------



## FredA (Sep 12, 2018)

ProLoL said:


> I want to use it as a dac in my system and don't want to control two volume knobs. The fixed mode should disable the volume knob and provide a constant 2.5v in high gain or 1.5v in low if I'm not mistaken. Currently the fixed mode works like the variable mode.


At the rca out, yes. Probably the glue... All you need is to make the two rightmost pin contact. The rightmost pin seems clean in your pict. It should work unless you can't go quite deep enough. Lighter gas is also good to disolve glue normally.


----------



## sennsay

ProLoL said:


> I want to use it as a dac in my system and don't want to control two volume knobs. The fixed mode should disable the volume knob and provide a constant 2.5v in high gain or 1.5v in low if I'm not mistaken. Currently the fixed mode works like the variable mode.


That's just weird and certainly not standard. I've had no such issues with my R2R. Can you not just use one of the several spare jumpers that King-wa provides with each R2R? It's late at night here and I may be misreading something  
 This 'glue thing' seems to be a recent phenomenon, I wouldn't imagine King-wa would sent a DAC out like that. Maybe it's just something that 'Magna' does? It certainly didn't happen with my DAC coming to OZ. Hope you can get it sorted.


----------



## elira

The glue thing is real, but seems easy to fix.


----------



## Anaz

ProLoL said:


> I've contacted magna hifi and they said it's for shipping purposes. Currently trying to pull it upwards but stuck pretty good.



My R2R jumper came out with only a small force. Try to pull the jumper with a pair of small or eyebrow tweezers (be careful to make sure you’re grabbing just the jumper and not the socket).  Also, see if the glue softens after the R2R has warmed up. (Don’t forget to unplug the power socket).


----------



## ProLoL (Sep 12, 2018)

Used pliers and now everything's as it suppose to be, thanks to everyone!
Don't understand why the jumper isn't on the right side by default..


----------



## 439598

Still hoping for a budget standalone R2R DAC from AGD. If they could improve on the R2R11 DAC, remove the PSU+amp and put it in a smaller package for about $250 it would appeal to a whole different side of market. It would be the least expensive R2R DAC you could buy, considering the price of the R2R it does not seem impossible... not sure why it doesnt exist.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> Used pliers and now everything's as it suppose to be, thanks to everyone!
> Don't understand why the jumper isn't on the right side by default..


All's well that ends well


----------



## gLer

Acke said:


> Still hoping for a budget standalone R2R DAC from AGD. If they could improve on the R2R11 DAC, remove the PSU+amp and put it in a smaller package for about $250 it would appeal to a whole different side of market. It would be the least expensive R2R DAC you could buy, considering the price of the R2R it does not seem impossible... not sure why it doesnt exist.


I'd say the R2R-11 IS a budget R2R dac! The amp, if anything, is an added bonus. You won't get it much smaller, even if you remove the amp, and every dac needs a PSU. Consider the R2R-11 an R2R dac with a bonus amp. As far as I know there's nothing cheaper (or remotely better) in this price range, and nothing is stopping you from only using the dac and ignoring the amp (in fact the lack of analogue inputs almost suggest that's a very likely use case).


----------



## elira

ProLoL said:


> Don't understand why the jumper isn't on the right side by default..



To avoid changing to fixed mode by mistake. It’s easy to miss the variable position and go directly to fixed. If you are using it as pre amp that would mean going suddenly to full volume.


----------



## ProLoL

elira said:


> To avoid changing to fixed mode by mistake. It’s easy to miss the variable position and go directly to fixed. If you are using it as pre amp that would mean going suddenly to full volume.



True, forgot zeos explained it in his review on the unit.


----------



## 439598 (Sep 12, 2018)

gLer said:


> I'd say the R2R-11 IS a budget R2R dac! The amp, if anything, is an added bonus. You won't get it much smaller, even if you remove the amp, and every dac needs a PSU. Consider the R2R-11 an R2R dac with a bonus amp. As far as I know there's nothing cheaper (or remotely better) in this price range, and nothing is stopping you from only using the dac and ignoring the amp (in fact the lack of analogue inputs almost suggest that's a very likely use case).


Look at any USB powered DAC, these do not have PSUs. The amp is not a bonus for me because It sounds bad, it also is the biggest use of the power and takes up the most space (take a look inside) *edit: actually its about the same and  DAC is bigger vertically*. The DA-8 boards, USB controller and small power board could fit in a tiny enclosure with an external power supply input , without any changes that could be nearly half the cost of the R2R11 (if R2R11 is a budget R2R DAC, standalone R2R11 DAC would be *super* _ultra_ budget R2R DAC!) but I would like to some improvement/refinement made to the DAC because its far from perfect (then again maybe the R2R11 power supply is the issue not the DAC, the option to use a better external supply could solve the issues I was having)


----------



## FredA

ProLoL said:


> Used pliers and now everything's as it suppose to be, thanks to everyone!
> Don't understand why the jumper isn't on the right side by default..



To avoid an accidental speaker blow-up before reading the manual i would guess.


----------



## gLer

Acke said:


> Look at any USB powered DAC, these do not have PSUs. The amp is not a bonus for me because It sounds bad, it also is the biggest use of the power and takes up the most space (take a look inside) *edit: actually its about the same and  DAC is bigger vertically*. The DA-8 boards, USB controller and small power board could fit in a tiny enclosure with an external power supply input , without any changes that could be nearly half the cost of the R2R11 (if R2R11 is a budget R2R DAC, standalone R2R11 DAC would be *super* _ultra_ budget R2R DAC!) but I would like to some improvement/refinement made to the DAC because its far from perfect (then again maybe the R2R11 power supply is the issue not the DAC, the option to use a better external supply could solve the issues I was having)


What specific issues were you having? I think if you want a better sounding R2R dac than the R2R-11 you’re going to have to be willing to pay for it. I still don’t know how AGD makes the R2R-11 so cheap. Good luck finding a compact R2R dac that comes close for the same money, let alone less.


----------



## sennsay (Sep 13, 2018)

Acke said:


> Still hoping for a budget standalone R2R DAC from AGD. If they could improve on the R2R11 DAC, remove the PSU+amp and put it in a smaller package for about $250 it would appeal to a whole different side of market. It would be the least expensive R2R DAC you could buy, considering the price of the R2R it does not seem impossible... not sure why it doesnt exist.


Well, it does exist, just not in the A-gd line - although I take your point if you're talking only A-gd. It's called the Schiit Modi Multibit(Mimby). The Mimby is 1/4 of the size with it's external power supply, is right on your $250 budget and sounds fantastic. I own and use both with my Magni 3, they have different sonic signatures, yet both have that organic naturalness that is a feature of the NOS DACs. The R2R-11 (as a DAC only) has a more syrupy warmth that is quite tube-like in some ways, is punchy and dynamic with a little overall darkness, particularly in the top end. The Mimby is more neutral and transparently 3D (if you're not getting that then it will be from other limiting items in the chain, in my experience), open and every bit as alive and tuneful, yet as I have my system set up it is also more holographic, with alive images suspended in space, clearly individual instruments and voices with their own ambient space ... if the recording is good enough.
 Both are excellent, great fun, have terrific communication skills and are fantastically priced. In the US, the R2R is what, $100 more and includes a better USB input, a good headphone amp with loads of power AND is a preamp as well as being nicely made to boot. Astonishing value!
Most of you guys are running from computers via USB, as I am but only with the R2R, as the Mimby is using their (probably) least advanced USB input, but performs better to my ears with the Optical input, it's purer and more refined. The Amanero Combo input on the R2R seems to be damn fine to me, the R2R's optical input seems flatter and less alive, almost 'boring', but I haven't listened through it for some time since earlier on in the run-in period, so maybe it's improved. I love the build quality of the R2R-11, beautifully laid out circuit boards, quality parts and utterly reliable. Nothing not to like here 
 I should mention here for those that don't know, that the Mimby is a simplified Bifrost Multibit ($600 in the US), so less than half the price, is the same circuit as it's more expensive brother, but is not upgradeable and the power supply is external to keep size down. Given a really clean source, it's an amazing thing!
 I may have wandered _ever_ so slightly off topic and in truth, your point regarding the creation of an A-gd R2R stand alone DAC is certainly a valid one and maybe a few requests to King-wa would be worth the while.


----------



## FredA

I agree Schiit makes competitive dacs. The Modi Uber, which i listen to for a short while, sounds very well for 150$.

One distinction to make with the multibit versus the r2r-11: the latter uses a custom discrete ladder dac, which is almost unique at that price point. Soekris offers an alternative, the Dac1101 for 400 euros, but i don't think it compares.


----------



## spacequeen7 (Sep 12, 2018)

FredA said:


> Those white sockets have pretty much all glue on them to prevent the connected cables to come loose during shipping. They possibly do the same for the jumpers. All to avoid DOA cases. They could use connector with lock mechanisms, they don't for some reason.


I think I can come up with better explanation...  lavender honey it gives that sweet ,slightly thick low end and lush mids .. it's allover ,I had to clean the pins since it was always variable


----------



## sennsay

spacequeen7 said:


> I think I can come up with better explanation...  lavender honey it gives that sweet ,slightly thick low end and lush mids .. it's allover ,I had to clean the pins since it was always variable


 A-gd must have secreted that lavender honey elsewhere in the circuit, as my pins were immaculate.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I just asked a honey bee what "lavender honey" is. He replied, "What the *** are you talking about?"


----------



## spacequeen7

I prefer forest black honey but lavender honey will do I guess 
https://yummybazaar.com/products/ga...Z-71RZ-AqLMvA-8Q68F1CKYLQBJUdkJxoCthAQAvD_BwE


----------



## 439598

sennsay said:


> Well, it does exist, just not in the A-gd line - although I take your point if you're talking only A-gd. It's called the Schiit Modi Multibit(Mimby). The Mimby is 1/4 of the size with it's external power supply, is right on your $250 budget and sounds fantastic. I own and use both with my Magni 3, they have different sonic signatures, yet both have that organic naturalness that is a feature of the NOS DACs. The R2R-11 (as a DAC only) has a more syrupy warmth that is quite tube-like in some ways, is punchy and dynamic with a little overall darkness, particularly in the top end. The Mimby is more neutral and transparently 3D (if you're not getting that then it will from be other limiting items in the chain, in my experience), open and every bit as alive and tuneful, yet as I have my system set up it is also more holographic, with alive images suspended in space, clearly individual instruments and voices with their own ambient space ... if the recording is good enough.
> Both are excellent, great fun, have terrific communication skills and are fantastically priced. In the US, the R2R is what, $100 more and includes a better USB input, a good headphone amp with loads of power AND is a preamp as well as being nicely made to boot. Astonishing value!
> Most of you guys are running from computers via USB, as I am but only with the R2R, as the Mimby is using their (probably) least advanced USB input, but performs better to my ears with the Optical input, it's purer and more refined. The Amanero Combo input on the R2R seems to be damn fine to me, the R2R's optical input seems flatter and less alive, almost 'boring', but I haven't listened through it for some time since earlier on in the run-in period, so maybe it's improved. I love the build quality of the R2R-11, beautifully laid out circuit boards, quality parts and utterly reliable. Nothing not to like here
> I should mention here for those that don't know, that the Mimby is a simplified Bifrost Multibit ($600 in the US), so less than half the price, is the same circuit as it's more expensive brother, but is not upgradeable and the power supply is external to keep size down. Given a really clean source, it's an amazing thing!
> I may have wandered _ever_ so slightly off topic and in truth, your point regarding the creation of an A-gd R2R stand alone DAC is certainly a valid one and maybe a few requests to King-wa would be worth the while.


You know I had picked up this notion since first looking into the R2R11 that the mimby was a ''hybrid'' and not true R2R but you just made me realise that is completely wrong, I thought it could instead be that discrete resistor ladder R2R are ''better'' but I cant find anything saying that is the case either, what I did find is people praising the mimby for it's unique sound that even some of the most expensive DS DACs cant capture... so you are right then, it does exist after all! 

As most probably already know there is another low cost discrete ladder R2R DAC, the Massdrop Airist Audio R2R DAC. about the same price as R2R11 plus the dreaded massdrop waiting times ... still good too see more R2R options hitting the market and it could be a great DAC, will have to wait for a comparison with the mimby.


----------



## FredA

Acke said:


> You know I had picked up this notion since first looking into the R2R11 that the mimby was a ''hybrid'' and not true R2R but you just made me realise that is completely wrong, I thought it could instead be that discrete resistor ladder R2R are ''better'' but I cant find anything saying that is the case either, what I did find is people praising the mimby for it's unique sound that even some of the most expensive DS DACs cant capture... so you are right then, it does exist after all!
> 
> As most probably already know there is another low cost discrete ladder R2R DAC, the Massdrop Airist Audio R2R DAC. about the same price as R2R11 plus the dreaded massdrop waiting times ... still good too see more R2R options hitting the market and it could be a great DAC, will have to wait for a comparison with the mimby.


Interesting. But between me and my r2r-11, it's true love. It's for as long as it will last, 15 years or more.


----------



## ProLoL

To everyone who hasn't tried the R2R11 with 5v pin blocked on the usb cable, try it, like turning it into a different device, YMMV depends on how noisy your pc is.


----------



## ProLoL

FredA said:


> Interesting. But between me and my r2r-11, it's true love. It's for as long as it will last, 15 years or more.


Same for me.. can't see my self listening to a different dac even if it's more capable.


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> One distinction to make with the multibit versus the r2r-11: the latter uses a custom discrete ladder dac, which is almost unique at that price point.


That is a very important distinction, and sets the R2R-11 apart from the likes of the Mimby.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> Same for me.. can't see my self listening to a different dac even if it's more capable.


Well, the R-1/R-28, but that’s $$$.


----------



## FredA

gLer said:


> Well, the R-1/R-28, but that’s $$$.


There is also the Airist dac, offered by Massdrop for 350$. You have to have an external lps so add it to the price. It has better s/n than the r2r 11 but an order of magnitude more distorsion, assuming thr r2r-11 is thre same as the r2r-2. And it does not have a hp amp nor a discrete non feedback output stage like the r2r 11 does. Kingwa would be able to produce a much cheaper dac following thre same recipe but i doubt he will do it. The r2r 11 has an old school high-end architecture and it's great as it is.

https://darko.audio/2018/06/airist-audios-r-2r-dac-350-via-massdrop/


----------



## ProLoL

gLer said:


> Well, the R-1/R-28, but that’s $$$.


More expensive R2R dacs won't guarantee me the same pleasure as I get with my R2R11.
Sure I'll get more details etc, if that was my goal I'd go for delta sigma and call it a day.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> More expensive R2R dacs won't guarantee me the same pleasure as I get with my R2R11.
> Sure I'll get more details etc, if that was my goal I'd go for delta sigma and call it a day.


That’s the point. You can get the same intangibly smooth and analogue sound as the R2R-11 with extra detail and soundstage without having to go all digital. I wanted more detail but also that same distinct R2R sound. I also wanted to use my headphones balanced, hence the upgrade. If you don’t need more detail or balanced output, the R2R-11 is perfect (and much cheaper!).


----------



## gLer

FredA said:


> There is also the Airist dac, offered by Massdrop for 350$. You have to have an external lps so add it to the price. It has better s/n than the r2r 11 but an order of magnitude more distorsion, assuming thr r2r-11 is thre same as the r2r-2. And it does not have a hp amp nor a discrete non feedback output stage like the r2r 11 does. Kingwa would be able to produce a much cheaper dac following thre same recipe but i doubt he will do it. The r2r 11 has an old school high-end architecture and it's great as it is.
> 
> https://darko.audio/2018/06/airist-audios-r-2r-dac-350-via-massdrop/


If the Airist comes close to the R2R-11 I’ll be very impressed.


----------



## FredA (Sep 13, 2018)

ProLoL said:


> More expensive R2R dacs won't guarantee me the same pleasure as I get with my R2R11.
> Sure I'll get more details etc, if that was my goal I'd go for delta sigma and call it a day.


The r2r-11 has exceptional tonal balance and is very very good at imaging. With plenty of details and never in your face. It has a very natural sound. It often amazes with its timbre accuracy and  its capacity to make the performer's brio come through. It makes music so enjoyable.


----------



## FredA

gLer said:


> If the Airist comes close to the R2R-11 I’ll be very impressed.


Doubt it as well.


----------



## J Mirra

FredA said:


> The r2r-11 has exceptional tonal balance and is very very good at imaging. With plenty of details and never in your face. It has a very natural sound. It often amazes with its timbre accuracy and  its capacity to make the performer's brio come through. It makes music so enjoyable.


I am loving mine and will not need an upgrade either for the price this was a steal. The back to front imaging as well as the width is just right my T1.1 are just my perfect match with this, its like "yeah that's it don't move, ive found it" it is just what my mind wants to hear, happy days..


----------



## Lushy Brushy

Gambitek said:


> Using my ZMF Auteur Blackwood. It's quite noticable. Overall the R28 is superior in many dimensions (soundstage, clarity, bass control), but the R2R-11 has this enjoyable distortion in the mids or something that makes it addicting. And way more sub bass. R28 has better controlled and precise bass. It's noticeably higher res, esp with 8X OS.



I don't have anything to compare the R2R with right now, but I wish I could achieve the same sound signature on the go, that's why I bought a Cayin N3. The truth is that as much I like my R2R, sitting in my desk doesn't excite me as much as listening to music when walking or carrying on activities (being more active). Sitting in front of a computer all day can suck the life out of you and not make you enjoy the music as much (at least in my case), therefore sometimes I think a more analytical sound would match the static position in front of the desk where you focus a bit more.

 And yes! I think it is that midrange something that makes the sound more analog and organic, for example male voices may sound more raspy making it feel that they are giving it they all with their throat, specially with HD600, the midrange cans. The R2R sound is indeed exotic, I just wish I had another unit that is more clinical to know 'how much more' exotic the R2R.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

ProLoL said:


> To everyone who hasn't tried the R2R11 with 5v pin blocked on the usb cable, try it, like turning it into a different device, YMMV depends on how noisy your pc is.



I did this and could hear a tiny improvement, nothing crazy. Also my R2R power chord has peeled, I'm worried that this is affecting the signal so will buy a new power cable (or that I will touch it with my bare foot), but everything sounds good regardless. Will also pick a jitter bug and audioquest forest usb to see if sound improves a tiny bit, if it doesn't I'll be pretty upset for spending that money.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

Sorry for posting so much but has anyone tried the R2R with a Darkvoice 336? I really want to get tubes for my HD600's, however I feel I will be adding to much coloration though but who knows, if you have paired them please let me know how that went. Plus the cost for extra tubes! this audio thing is a rabbit hole.


----------



## spacequeen7

Lushy Brushy said:


> Sorry for posting so much but has anyone tried the R2R with a Darkvoice 336? I really want to get tubes for my HD600's, however I feel I will be adding to much coloration though but who knows, if you have paired them please let me know how that went. Plus the cost for extra tubes! this audio thing is a rabbit hole.


Best results  I've ever  had pairing 336se was with Topping D50 (power bank),unfortunately R2R11 give me ground loop ,MelonHead  mention having better results with his new 336se


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Sep 14, 2018)

spacequeen7 said:


> Best results  I've ever  had pairing 336se was with Topping D50 (power bank),unfortunately R2R11 give me ground loop ,MelonHead  mention having better results with his new 336se



Oh I see, hopefully MelonHead can help me decide  You're my wallet's master as of now, it will do as you say.


----------



## gLer

Lushy Brushy said:


> I don't have anything to compare the R2R with right now, but I wish I could achieve the same sound signature on the go, that's why I bought a Cayin N3.


Interesting, I also bought the N3, and never want for anything else when I’m traveling with it. It really is a superb little dap - so much so that I went all out to create custom firmware for it (and Cayin don’t make that an easy job!). 

Off topic but if they make a similar sounding ‘N4’ with non-Android wireless access to my Audirvana+ library at home and Tidal on the go, I’ll be at dap endgame. Already at desktop amp/dac/headphone endgame, so portable is the final frontier.


----------



## ProLoL

Lushy Brushy said:


> I did this and could hear a tiny improvement, nothing crazy. Also my R2R power chord has peeled, I'm worried that this is affecting the signal so will buy a new power cable (or that I will touch it with my bare foot), but everything sounds good regardless. Will also pick a jitter bug and audioquest forest usb to see if sound improves a tiny bit, if it doesn't I'll be pretty upset for spending that money.



I can recommend Supra usb and block it's 5v pin. They pretty much believe in no bull tech in a reasonable price.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Sep 15, 2018)

gLer said:


> Interesting, I also bought the N3, and never want for anything else when I’m traveling with it. It really is a superb little dap - so much so that I went all out to create custom firmware for it (and Cayin don’t make that an easy job!).
> 
> Off topic but if they make a similar sounding ‘N4’ with non-Android wireless access to my Audirvana+ library at home and Tidal on the go, I’ll be at dap endgame. Already at desktop amp/dac/headphone endgame, so portable is the final frontier.



Yeah I can tell you have a nice set up! My Cayin attempted delivery but I wasn't home so I'll pick up Monday, I am excited and glad to know it will be good. I bought a pair of m60xs which sound good, what I don't like is that they are really awkward to carry around, look big, and don't feel too secure, as opposed to my v-modas which are built like tanks and fold, also the ability to take calls is really useful on the go, but don't sound as good. This is preventing me from enjoying the m60x's. If you know of a good portable let me know.



ProLoL said:


> I can recommend Supra usb and block it's 5v pin. They pretty much believe in no bull**** tech in a reasonable price.



AUD$ 80 for the Supra, have you tried it and noticed an improvement? If so let me know, I'm afraid of spending money pimpin' my R2R and getting no noticeable improvement, when I perhaps I should be saving money for headphones or a tube amp instead.


----------



## ProLoL

I recommend them cause I'm using it. Can't go back to stock cable.


----------



## gLer

Lushy Brushy said:


> Yeah I can tell you have a nice set up! My Cayin attempted delivery but I wasn't home so I'll pick up Monday, I am excited and glad to know it will be good. I bought a pair of m60xs which sound good, what I don't like is that they are really awkward to carry around, look big, and don't feel too secure, as opposed to my v-modas which are built like tanks and fold, also the ability to take calls is really useful on the go, but don't sound as good. This is preventing me from enjoying the m60x's. If you know of a good portable let me know.


Send me a PM and we can discuss the N3 and portable pairings. As for the R2R-11 and USB cables, I've never been convinced, although I do have an ifi iSilencer 3 that I picked up a while back as part of a deal, which probably keeps even the most basic USB cable dead silent for much less money than one of those fancy cables and blocking power pins. To be honest I can't tell the difference between the stock USB cable with and without the iSilencer from my Mac, hence my skepticism. I am yet to read one convincing post anywhere that describes, in real, understandable language, the actual differences (and degree of differences) between good and 'bad' USB cables - as in, for example, "on this song at this point, with the stock USB the vocals are notably smoothed out and lacking definition compared to USB cable X". Until someone can actually put a finger on the quantitative and qualitative differences with real world examples, I'll continue calling BS.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> I recommend them cause I'm using it. Can't go back to stock cable.


Would love to know why? Can you point to tracks and time codes where you notice actual, quantifiable differences, or is it just a "feeling"?


----------



## ProLoL

Blacker background, highs opened up and sound became more neutral. With the stock cable - top a bit recessed, noisier background and sweeter midrange. If I switch back to it I suddenly feel like something's bothering me. Obvious results were with all headphones I've owned but most apparent with my old T1 limited edition, with stock cable the sound was way too sweet and soft, the Supra usb fixed it.


----------



## Lushy Brushy

ProLoL said:


> I recommend them cause I'm using it. Can't go back to stock cable.



 Wow, I'll have to give it a try, 'can't go back to stock cable' seems like a solid statement since I'm currently using stock. 


gLer said:


> Send me a PM and we can discuss the N3 and portable pairings. As for the R2R-11 and USB cables, I've never been convinced, although I do have an ifi iSilencer 3 that I picked up a while back as part of a deal, which probably keeps even the most basic USB cable dead silent for much less money than one of those fancy cables and blocking power pins. To be honest I can't tell the difference between the stock USB cable with and without the iSilencer from my Mac, hence my skepticism. I am yet to read one convincing post anywhere that describes, in real, understandable language, the actual differences (and degree of differences) between good and 'bad' USB cables - as in, for example, "on this song at this point, with the stock USB the vocals are notably smoothed out and lacking definition compared to USB cable X". Until someone can actually put a finger on the quantitative and qualitative differences with real world examples, I'll continue calling BS.



And also yes, these are the kind of opinions that keep me from buying an aftermarket USB cable, I've read that USB cables just carry digital signals while other digress and say that it does make a difference. If I end buy cables and end up not noticing any differences at least I'll know better next time, the issue is this costs money haha


----------



## ProLoL

Basically I'm not a cable guy, purchased the supra cause I needed another usb for my CMA600i, first "hifi" usb cable purchase, didn't expect for results but there are. Maybe my laptop is noisy? I'm not towards hyping cables just my 2 cents.


----------



## gLer

ProLoL said:


> Basically I'm not a cable guy, purchased the supra cause I needed another usb for my CMA600i, first "hifi" usb cable purchase, didn't expect for results but there are. Maybe my laptop is noisy? I'm not towards hyping cables just my 2 cents.


That's a good honest answer. Even if the difference is placebo, if you can hear it and you prefer it, it's a good investment. Personally I like my mids a bit sweeter and highs a touch rolled, so the stock is probably the "better" option. @Lushy Brushy just because something makes a difference doesn't mean it's a good difference; depends what sound you're after.


----------



## Lushy Brushy (Sep 15, 2018)

ProLoL said:


> Blacker background, highs opened up and sound became more neutral. With the stock cable - top a bit recessed, noisier background and sweeter midrange. If I switch back to it I suddenly feel like something's bothering me. Obvious results were with all headphones I've owned but most apparent with my old T1 limited edition, with stock cable the sound was way too sweet and soft, the Supra usb fixed it.



These are the impressions I currently get with my R2R, that the highs are a bit recessed, both with my HD600's and K712's, there is not that 'splash' that I would like with cymbals. I can also see how the midrange is sweet but I think these may be attributes of the R2R itself. Will give the supra cable a try regardless as well as a jitterbug and see for myself.



gLer said:


> That's a good honest answer. Even if the difference is placebo, if you can hear it and you prefer it, it's a good investment. Personally I like my mids a bit sweeter and highs a touch rolled, so the stock is probably the "better" option. @Lushy Brushy just because something makes a difference doesn't mean it's a good difference; depends what sound you're after.



Yes, I'm not sure now, I also like the sweetness of the unit, it gives it an analog vintage sound, feels like I'm listening to a warm Sunday afternoon at 12:00pm (glorious). If it changes the sound and I don't like it I can always revert back to stock and be stuck with a cable that I don't want hehe.


----------



## Chopin75

Lushy Brushy said:


> Wow, I'll have to give it a try, 'can't go back to stock cable' seems like a solid statement since I'm currently using stock.
> 
> 
> And also yes, these are the kind of opinions that keep me from buying an aftermarket USB cable, I've read that USB cables just carry digital signals while other digress and say that it does make a difference. If I end buy cables and end up not noticing any differences at least I'll know better next time, the issue is this costs money haha


All cables can make a difference. I even compared a $100 good LH USB cable and DH lab mirage USB cable $200, placed pregalvanic isolation. The DH lab gives more refined and controlled sound with less harshness. LH may be a bit more open. Replacing a cheap stock with the LH lab USB pregalvanic makes huge difference though at the same time I shortened the post galvanic isolation by using Regen USB adaptor. Perhaps shortening  theUSB to just a good adaptor is best. If u don’t want to spend much just connect all with Regen USb adaptors though u would need to place the labtop or computer behind the R2R and also tilt the computer vertically as the audio-gd USB is vertical.


----------



## monkeyfist_78

Try the affordable "sbooster vbus2 isolator". I have.


----------



## Chopin75

monkeyfist_78 said:


> Try the affordable "sbooster vbus2 isolator". I have.


And BTW the Regen USB adaptor has a switch to turn off the vBus which I presume is turned off when no USB power is needed


----------



## myusernameislove (Sep 22, 2018)

I like my R2R 11 with AQ Carbon USB cable very much. I had to cover 5V pin before the cable started to sound good. Its sound is a little less bright than that of stock cable. I like sound of both, but I feel Carbon is step ahead. I guess last purchase will be power cable. Either Supra Lorad 2.5 Silver Anniversary or Kabelguru Reptilian power cable (preferably).


----------



## Pharmaboy

How do you cover 5V pin? That's on the DAC end of the USB cable? 

Never heard of that, not sure what you mean...


----------



## myusernameislove (Sep 22, 2018)

On computer end of USB cable. Search this thread for "5V pin". You need to put slim small piece of electrical tape onto the rightmost pin of USB 2 male connector as shown here. The idea behind it is to block power from entering the cable, as R2R11 uses its own power supply.


----------



## gLer

Pharmaboy said:


> How do you cover 5V pin? That's on the DAC end of the USB cable?
> 
> Never heard of that, not sure what you mean...


Tried the 5V pin trick with a few cables. Made zero difference from my Mac. Guess I don’t have a USB noise problem.


----------



## Pharmaboy

myusernameislove said:


> On computer end of USB cable. Search this thread for "5V pin". You need to put slim small piece of electrical tape onto the rightmost pin of USB 2 male connector as shown here.



Thanks! That photo image is excellent...


----------



## myusernameislove (Sep 24, 2018)

My experience is that stock cable sounded better that Carbon before I covered the pin. It was not clean. I covered it and it came alive.


----------



## myusernameislove (Sep 23, 2018)

Zenvota said:


> Could I get a recommendation between r2r11 and nfb11?  I use Hifiman HE-400i, this program https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/ for movies, and fast complex music.  I know nfb11 is a good choice for my needs, however, the he400i is very analytical, would the r2r11 add some life/realism without sacrificing detail and speed?  Also, between the "out of your head" program and equalizing I find I need alot of power, will I hear the noise floor on r2r11 if the volume is high? Thanks!


That is exactly what I feel it did: it added life without sacrifying the detail retreival and sound control. I remember comparing my modded *HE-400i* (with new pads and new cable) with Edition X V2 on A&K Kann in my local shop, and the thing that Edition X V2 was better in was the musicality and coherency of the song as whole. The difference was definitely not in the details or sound temperature or slam, it was in the analytical approach of HE-400i. All sounds seemed divided too much, while on Edition X V2 all sounds were connected into one super coherent and relaxed sound. With R2R11 I feel like HE-400i gained some of that coherency. It is a very pleasant pairing, slightly on the warm and a little too dark side of things, but I need to note, that you need to use exactly these pads on HE-400i (Mr Speakers alpha pads), because these pads are simply the best pads for HE-400i. They increase the depth and tighten the bass considerably and increase bass slam, and they also clear the highs. Simply astonishing pads, their only downside is, that they support even more the analytical approach of HE-400i. And R2R11 breaths a life and coherenccy into the result. I would call HE-400i slightly on the analytical side even with R2R 11. You can not get away from that. It just does not matter anymore, because the resulting sound is top class and it has not only a mature character with sweet aftertaste to it, it opened up a lot as it lost a lot from its intimacy and two dimensional character (alpha pads helped with that a lot by adding a 3rd dimmension /depth/, and R2R covered all sounds with a slight space increase almost as if a short echo was added to or revealed around notes). Negatives perceived after long time use: too much bass slam, too warm and dark.


----------



## Zenvota (Sep 23, 2018)

myusernameislove said:


> That is exactly what I feel it did: it added life without sacrifying the detail retreival and sound control. I remember comparing my modded *HE-400i* (with new pads and new cable) with Edition X V2 on A&K Kann in my local shop, and the thing that Edition X V2 was better in was the musicality and coherency of the song as whole. The difference was definitely not in the details or sound temperature or slam, it was in the analytical approach of HE-400i. All sounds seemed divided too much, while on Edition X V2 all sounds were connected into one super coherent and relaxed sound. With R2R11 I feel like HE-400i gained some of that coherency. It is a very pleasant pairing, slightly on the warm and a little too dark side of things, but I need to note, that you need to use exactly these pads on HE-400i (Mr Speakers alpha pads), because these pads are simply the best pads for HE-400i. They increase the depth and tighten the bass considerably and increase bass slam, and they also clear the highs. Simply astonishing pads, their only downside is, that they support even more the analytical approach of HE-400i. And R2R11 breaths a life and coherenccy into the result. I would call HE-400i slightly on the analytical side even with R2R 11. You can not get away from that. It just does not matter anymore, because the resulting sound is top class and it has not only a mature character with sweet aftertaste to it, it opened up a lot as it lost a lot from its intimacy and two dimensional character (alpha pads helped with that a lot by adding a 3rd dimmension /depth/, and R2R covered all sounds with a slight space increase almost as if a short echo was added to or revealed around notes). Negatives perceived after long time use: too much bass slam, too warm and dark.



Heh good write up.  I have a pair of alpha pads but I never though to use them with the 400i due to the environment i use them in is warm.  I ended up using Dekoni LCD Velour pads which are just awesome, very comfortable, breathable, more sub bass due to the increased distance from the drivers, less peaky treble due to the velour.  To get em to work though I had to mangle the 400i headband, which was ok becaude the yokes had already broken in 3 places lol.


 
As for the nfb11 or r2r11.  I ended up going with the nfb11.  Id still like to try a ladder dac at some point, but I am very happy with the nfb11.  I paired it with a bunch of used gear that I had bought to test out and settled on the following:
Uptone USB Regen
Breeze audio DU-U8(optical to the NFB11 with tcxo)
Topaz 91092-12

The combination of a clocked reclocked final clocked data stream, isolated from the pc, and the isolation transformer(140db common mode noise reduction and 60db traverse noise reduction) yielded an insanely clean detailed and musical sound.  This paired with OOYH gives me a very lifelike virtual loudspeaker, and while it doesnt have quite the size and dynamics of my main system, it is very enjoyable and Im very satisfied with its current state(e.g. no upgraditis).


----------



## 439598 (Sep 23, 2018)

myusernameislove said:


> +note: that you should use USB2 (not USB3) port on computer side. You should use port, that is connected right to the motherboard, not ports from front pannel of your computer - those are connected with low quality cable to motherboard. Some say you should also prefer external 3.5inch harddrives with their own power supply over those 2.5inch ones, as those take power through USB, and maybe they could interfere with the audio signal before it enters your USB audio cable (I guess that is the reason behind it). Frankly, I use 2.5mm harddrive and R2R sounds very well indeed. I connected hdd to different group of USB ports then my audio USB cable is connected to. Just in case.


USB2 is not better than USB3 for USB2 devices for data alone, compare the ports and you will see. SATA is best for Harddrives and will be completely seperate from USB (Data and power) with whatever drive you use but be sure to use shortest sata cable possible to minimize interference


----------



## myusernameislove (Sep 25, 2018)

Just to let you know - the overally too warm and dark character was anihilated with silver plated mains cable (SUPRA LoRad 3G2.5 Silver Anniversary). I would call the change even too radical, therefore I placed the cable not on the dac itself, but to feed the source (PC). It still sounds that way, so further experiments with cables may be needed. I had no idea, that changing PC cable would influence sound so much. I will try to compensate this newly added influence of silver (on PC mains cable) with massive copper cable upgrade on R2R.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

sennsay said:


> Well, it does exist, just not in the A-gd line - although I take your point if you're talking only A-gd. It's called the Schiit Modi Multibit(Mimby). The Mimby is 1/4 of the size with it's external power supply, is right on your $250 budget and sounds fantastic. I own and use both with my Magni 3, they have different sonic signatures, yet both have that organic naturalness that is a feature of the NOS DACs. The R2R-11 (as a DAC only) has a more syrupy warmth that is quite tube-like in some ways, is punchy and dynamic with a little overall darkness, particularly in the top end. The Mimby is more neutral and transparently 3D (if you're not getting that then it will be from other limiting items in the chain, in my experience), open and every bit as alive and tuneful, yet as I have my system set up it is also more holographic, with alive images suspended in space, clearly individual instruments and voices with their own ambient space ... if the recording is good enough.




I'm considering buying an R2R-11, however I already have a Mimby and Magni 3. I'm more concerned about the Magni 3 being a bottleneck amp in the future. Do you find the R2R to be an upgrade from the Mimby? Why don't you use the amp in the R2R? 

Does anyone think that the NFB 11 could be a good delta sigma companion to my Schiit Stack? I have an HD700 on the way and I plan to buy an LCD planar one day. I'm pleased with my Magni 3 but I keep hearing better amps will drive higher tier headphones better (even the Sennheiser 600 series). Should I just get a better amp? Or should I get an Eitr and clean up my usb connection sound.. XD


----------



## muckyfingers

Having heard both set ups, I would say it is a side grade to pick up an R2R-11. Both set ups have enough power to drive LCD’s or any headphone currently available, but they have slightly different sound signatures, I think the R2R-11 has a more relaxed “natural” type sound, while the magni/mimby combo is a little more forward in the mids, though I doubt you could tell without A/B’ing them.


----------



## sennsay

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm considering buying an R2R-11, however I already have a Mimby and Magni 3. I'm more concerned about the Magni 3 being a bottleneck amp in the future. Do you find the R2R to be an upgrade from the Mimby? Why don't you use the amp in the R2R?
> 
> Does anyone think that the NFB 11 could be a good delta sigma companion to my Schiit Stack? I have an HD700 on the way and I plan to buy an LCD planar one day. I'm pleased with my Magni 3 but I keep hearing better amps will drive higher tier headphones better (even the Sennheiser 600 series). Should I just get a better amp? Or should I get an Eitr and clean up my usb connection sound.. XD


In short, no, I don't find the R2R to be an upgrade on the Mimby, it's just a different flavour. As I have detailed some pages back, the R2R is darker, meatier and mostly less transparent than the Mimby, more a silky translucence than transparent. Yes, I do use the R2R as a complete unit as well, almost exclusively from a MacBook Pro via Kimber USB, which I prefer over the Optical input - it's the opposite experience for me with the Mimby, optical here is stunningly transparent and pure (this, almost always from the digital output of the QP1R as source) with virtually any form of amplifier I have here. It's a musical gem. 
 I have used the R2R as DAC only a couple of times with quality silver ICs to the Magni 3 and while it is rather good and punchy, fun and dynamic, it still does not have the wide open 3D transparency I get combining it with the same cables, Mimby and HD540 Ref1 headphones. Both are fabulous value for money, although just saying that lessens their true musical qualities to some extent as being just 'good value for the money', they are both way beyond that in my experience. I find them both more than good enough that I have no desire to keep buying into small 'upgrades', personally, as the next truly big leap would be straight to the Schiit Yggdrasil for me. 
 I have no experience with the NFB 11 and no desire to play with Delta Sigma DACs at this time, nothing against them as such, I'm just very happy with what I've got, being well tuned with a brilliant source (mostly QP1R), cables and headphones, all very well matched and deeply musically satisfying. 
 The Magni 3 may be less of a 'bottleneck' than you might think when fed with a fine source and better cables (I understand some may disagree, but I'm talking from my own experience, not someone else's), although I take your point if you are looking to the finest headphones and sources in the future. The future isn't happening right now though, so you might like to just really get the best out of it today and have a ball with your gear and upgrade when the time is right  Since you asked, that's where I'd go, get the very best out of your current gear, Eitr and all ... yes, get the purest USB sound you can. Hope this is of any help to you.


----------



## Licht

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> I'm considering buying an R2R-11, however I already have a Mimby and Magni 3. I'm more concerned about the Magni 3 being a bottleneck amp in the future. Do you find the R2R to be an upgrade from the Mimby? Why don't you use the amp in the R2R?
> 
> Does anyone think that the NFB 11 could be a good delta sigma companion to my Schiit Stack? I have an HD700 on the way and I plan to buy an LCD planar one day. I'm pleased with my Magni 3 but I keep hearing better amps will drive higher tier headphones better (even the Sennheiser 600 series). Should I just get a better amp? Or should I get an Eitr and clean up my usb connection sound.. XD



I have both setups in different rooms.
IMO, Mimby + Magni3 sounds much refined and smooth, but R2R11 has way more solid/stable feeling on the sound and has NOS multibit sound.
Just compared now with HE560 but both amps drives HE560 better on high gain. Big difference in sound by gain setting.
Haven't tried adding Magni3 after R2R11 output but the R2R11 DAC sound signature won't change much on RCA output since I have compared R2R11 and Yggdrasil on my speaker system.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

sennsay said:


> In short, no, I don't find the R2R to be an upgrade on the Mimby, it's just a different flavour. As I have detailed some pages back, the R2R is darker, meatier and mostly less transparent than the Mimby, more a silky translucence than transparent. Yes, I do use the R2R as a complete unit as well, almost exclusively from a MacBook Pro via Kimber USB, which I prefer over the Optical input - it's the opposite experience for me with the Mimby, optical here is stunningly transparent and pure (this, almost always from the digital output of the QP1R as source) with virtually any form of amplifier I have here. It's a musical gem.
> I have used the R2R as DAC only a couple of times with quality silver ICs to the Magni 3 and while it is rather good and punchy, fun and dynamic, it still does not have the wide open 3D transparency I get combining it with the same cables, Mimby and HD540 Ref1 headphones.



Thank you for the replies everyone. This is good new for my wallet! I'm once again happy I went for the Mimby and not the modi 2. It's interesting that you all used different adjectives but seemed to be saying similar things so I trust your ears 

I will say my only complaint about my Mimby is that it takes a long time to warm up (about 3 weeks) and as my username implies, I'm not exactly employed and settled down yet. For this reason I may get a Delta sigma dac/amp that's more portable. 

@sennsay 
I was lurking in the Sennheiser 540 thread recently, this is off topic but, how should i go about finding a pair? I'm a violinist and am very interested in the best classical music/acoustic listening experience.


----------



## Chopin75

Is the mimby u guys are describing the multibit version or the signa delta version?


----------



## Chopin75

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Thank you for the replies everyone. This is good new for my wallet! I'm once again happy I went for the Mimby and not the modi 2. It's interesting that you all used different adjectives but seemed to be saying similar things so I trust your ears
> 
> I will say my only complaint about my Mimby is that it takes a long time to warm up (about 3 weeks) and as my username implies, I'm not exactly employed and settled down yet. For this reason I may get a Delta sigma dac/amp that's more portable.
> 
> ...


Not to distract u from your final decision. I am also classical/acoustic fan. I love the R2R sound but I use the more expensive R2R 7. The sound is much more natural, analogue and realistic than signa delta. I imagine the multibit Mimby is close to R2R sound.


----------



## Licht

Mimby is Schiit internal nickname for Modi Multibit. Mb stands for Multibit in Mi-MB-y.
It should be momby though.

And isn’t Schiit Multibit DACs R2R?
Yeah, they are not discrete, but I thought them as R2R.


----------



## Chopin75

Licht said:


> Mimby is Schiit internal nickname for Modi Multibit. Mb stands for Multibit in Mi-MB-y.
> It should be momby though.
> 
> And isn’t Schiit Multibit DACs R2R?
> Yeah, they are not discrete, but I thought them as R2R.


I see, forgot the nicknames, too many of them. I am not sure if Schiit Yaggy or the other DACs from Schiit are considered R2R or not. Schiit uses some sort of DAC chip originally used for MRI or other medical devices or similar industry. They modified it for audio use. There is some sort of filter and upsampling applied as far as I understand, sure not a NOS. I think the official website never uses the tern R2R, only some reviewers use this term.


----------



## sennsay

BrokeSkoolBoi said:


> Thank you for the replies everyone. This is good new for my wallet! I'm once again happy I went for the Mimby and not the modi 2. It's interesting that you all used different adjectives but seemed to be saying similar things so I trust your ears
> 
> I will say my only complaint about my Mimby is that it takes a long time to warm up (about 3 weeks) and as my username implies, I'm not exactly employed and settled down yet. For this reason I may get a Delta sigma dac/amp that's more portable.
> 
> ...


See if you can find a good pair on eBay, preferably not a set that needs work, as it will cost you near as much to upgrade a knackered set of cables and pads etc as to buy a good pair in the first place. Lots of good stuff in the HD540 thread! A dedicated bunch we are  Maybe even advertise for a pair in some of the hifi mags. 
Although ... with second thoughts you _*can*_ really improve the HD540s with better pads pretty cheaply and the Mogami cable is the biz for these (and other) cans, a definite upgrade over the stock cable!


----------



## sennsay

Licht said:


> I have both setups in different rooms.
> IMO, Mimby + Magni3 sounds much refined and smooth, but R2R11 has way more solid/stable feeling on the sound and has NOS multibit sound.
> Just compared now with HE560 but both amps drives HE560 better on high gain. Big difference in sound by gain setting.
> Haven't tried adding Magni3 after R2R11 output but the R2R11 DAC sound signature won't change much on RCA output since I have compared R2R11 and Yggdrasil on my speaker system.


No, the sound doesn't change that significantly via RCA out, still warmish and punchy, although slightly less so into the Magni 3 than using the R2R as a whole unit, that amp is dynamic and adds a touch more earthy darkness overall, it certainly suits my much lighter in tone HD430s.


----------



## BrokeSkoolBoi

sennsay said:


> See if you can find a good pair on eBay, preferably not a set that needs work, as it will cost you near as much to upgrade a knackered set of cables and pads etc as to buy a good pair in the first place. Lots of good stuff in the HD540 thread! A dedicated bunch we are  Maybe even advertise for a pair in some of the hifi mags.
> Although ... with second thoughts you _*can*_ really improve the HD540s with better pads pretty cheaply and the Mogami cable is the biz for these (and other) cans, a definite upgrade over the stock cable!



Lol alright, yea I might as well make em the best they can be, thank you!


----------



## xLoud

Anyone compared 11.28 or R2R 11 with topping DX7s?


----------



## benirohit458 (Oct 17, 2018)

Hey there guys
I've had my HD6XX for a while and received my R2R11 about a month ago.
I might have to face some flak from the audiophiles for this but here is my experience.
I dont know too many of the audiophile terms so ill share my experience in layman terms.
Before i got my R2R11, i was using my HD6XXs with my Ipad Air2, listening to 320kbps music.
And when i received the R2R11, very honestly i wasnt overwhelmed.
I was expecting to be blown away considering the amount of money I'd spent on it.
Rather, I might sound stupid saying this, but other than the loudness of the R2R, I dont see it as much of an upgrade from my Ipad.
Instead the R2R seems to be chopping off the punch from the music, it makes the music sound a little muddy if that is a term.
It is just taking the excitement away from the music, the HD6XX being a warm pair already.

However what the R2R has done is made my 4 year old HD518s sound much better.
So much so that the HD6XX seem like only a marginal upgrade from the HD518s.
So I dont know if I should be regretting my purchase or what....
Would like to know your views on this.
A I missing any settings here?
I had a look at the settings on my computer:
Digital Output Properties>Advanced>Default Format> it seems to be running at 2 Channel, 16bit, 44100 Hz (CD Quality)

Am i supposed to change anything under this setting?


----------



## elira

benirohit458 said:


> Hey there guys
> I've had my HD6XX for a while and received my R2R11 about a month ago.
> I might have to face some flak from the audiophiles for this but here is my experience.
> I dont know too many of the audiophile terms so ill share my experience in layman terms.
> ...



There are some amps that work better with certain headphones. I personally don’t like the amp in the R2R-11, so I use it as a DAC. For the HD6XX the best amp I found was the Aune x7s.


----------



## thebkt

benirohit458 said:


> Hey there guys
> I've had my HD6XX for a while and received my R2R11 about a month ago.
> I might have to face some flak from the audiophiles for this but here is my experience.
> I dont know too many of the audiophile terms so ill share my experience in layman terms.
> ...


Welcome to learning about your preferences, now that you've got a baseline you enjoy  

As far as how one piece of gear sounds, there are so many factors at play, especially reading comments online.  I wouldn't regret anything if I were you.  The R2R-11 is reportedly a solid piece of kit, but as you mentioned, the HD6xx is already a warmer headphone, so an R2R DAC -- which traditionally takes the edge off brighter cans -- may not be the best pairing.  I don't mean that in absolute terms either.  It doesn't excite you, so clearly it's not the best pairing for you.  I honestly found the same thing with my HD6xx and NFB-1/R2R-1 (think bigger R2R-11).  They sounded... fine... but lacked any excitement.  Yet, with other headphones that amp/dac sound fantastic together.  

I recently got chewed out by some elitist for even raising the concept that I thoroughly enjoyed my HD6xx directly out of an old Nexus 5 phone.  In the end, that combination just worked for me.  So if your HD6xx sounds great out of an ipad, great!  That just means that you've got more suitable sources to your ears and you can use your headphones in more situations.  

Unless money is an issue, I'd suggest holding onto the R2R-11 and maybe, when the time is right, seek out some different cans that might pair better with the R2R.  Or sell the R2R and get a DAC/Amp with more consensus on being a good pairing with the HD6xx.

No need for regrets, you've got good gear, enjoy it however you see fit


----------



## Pharmaboy

benirohit458 said:


> Hey there guys
> I've had my HD6XX for a while and received my R2R11 about a month ago.
> I might have to face some flak from the audiophiles for this but here is my experience.
> I dont know too many of the audiophile terms so ill share my experience in layman terms.
> ...



Did you burn in this DAC/amp? Burn-in is one of those contentious topics here, but sometimes it can result in a noticeable, occasionally very noticeable improvement in sound. 

Not saying this would be the case w/the R2R 11, but I should mention for reference purposes: I have 2 desktop DACs by Audio GD (DAC-19 multibit & NOS 19 NOS multibit). Experienced owners of the DAC-19 stated that 100s of hours were needed to fully burn it in (ie, to where the sound stopped changing). They were right: it took over 400 hours burn-in time for each DAC to stabilize and not change sound day to day (one day it would sound bright/edgy, the next day flat & lifeless). Now both sound terrific...


----------



## Chopin75

Pharmaboy said:


> Did you burn in this DAC/amp? Burn-in is one of those contentious topics here, but sometimes it can result in a noticeable, occasionally very noticeable improvement in sound.
> 
> Not saying this would be the case w/the R2R 11, but I should mention for reference purposes: I have 2 desktop DACs by Audio GD (DAC-19 multibit & NOS 19 NOS multibit). Experienced owners of the DAC-19 stated that 100s of hours were needed to fully burn it in (ie, to where the sound stopped changing). They were right: it took over 400 hours burn-in time for each DAC to stabilize and not change sound day to day (one day it would sound bright/edgy, the next day flat & lifeless). Now both sound terrific...


yah, 1000hrs for R2R7 (R-7), but it is a larger machine. How about changing the source? The Audio-gds may be very sensitive to the source, like the R-7. Ipad, low res may not be ideal and the R2R-11 can mercilessly show the flaws. You may need a matching source. e.g. the basic SOTM if you don't have a computer. Check out R2R7 thread, someone did try Raspberry Pi with great results. I am using Euphony Audio which sounds superb but won't work on ipad alone, needs a computer to boot from.


----------



## myusernameislove (Oct 18, 2018)

Just to let you all know, R2R-11 sounds spectacular with HD540 and HD560 Sennheiser headphones. AKG K240DF is on its way, so I'll let you know what is the definitive best sounding affordable headphone with R2R-11 very soon. Both these headphones slay HE-400i, no competition there.

{edit - new headphone cable is a must, otherwise both headphones sound too thin and bright}


----------



## Jack-A (Oct 20, 2018)

Which one should i buy for my Audeze LCD-2C's? I'm more into the warm, darker-signature sound, I lke the sound of 80s, heavy synthersizer sounds, funk, blues, early hip-hop, rock, I'm not into V-shaped sound but I like bass, I'm also pretty treble-sensitive. I do not care about modern pop music. I'd like a wide soundstage, deep, low, hard hitting bass that's not distorted or booming, highs that do not pierce my ears and  mid frequencies that are not missing.

At first I tought about the Schiit Magni/Modi stack but I read somewhere that the soundstage is wider on Audio GD devices and that is really important for me. The LCD-2C-s arent the most wide-sounding headphones and due that I would like to get an amp that expands the soundstage to the maximum. I know there are better and more expensive optons but I cant spend more than the price of the two amps discussed in this thread.


----------



## gLer

therealjaakaru said:


> Which one should i buy for my Audeze LCD-2C's? I'm more into the warm, darker-signature sound, I lke the sound of 80s, heavy synthersizer sounds, funk, blues, early hip-hop, rock, I'm not into V-shaped sound but I like bass, I'm also pretty treble-sensitive. I do not care about modern pop music. I'd like a wide soundstage, deep, low, hard hitting bass that's not distorted or booming, highs that do not pierce my ears and  mid frequencies that are not missing.


Based on your description that’s easy: R2R-11 all the way.


----------



## matti55

I'm currently running the Auteur of a Magni3/Modi3. I've been looking into R2R 11 or the NFB-11.28 as a possible upgrade. Will there be any noticable difference? Anyone have a recommendation for one over the other for the Auteur?


----------



## gLer

matti55 said:


> I'm currently running the Auteur of a Magni3/Modi3. I've been looking into R2R 11 or the NFB-11.28 as a possible upgrade. Will there be any noticable difference? Anyone have a recommendation for one over the other for the Auteur?


Both R2R-11 and NFB-11 will be fine (my preference being the more organic R2R), but to be honest a headphone like the Auteur will greatly benefit from a more resolving, more powerful and more versatile amp and dac, preferably balanced, so if you can stretch your budget to the Audio-gd R-28 your Auteur will thank you for it. The added resolution and transparency will shine with the Auteurs.


----------



## matti55

Sure is tempting to just go all in on one of those. I don't see any dimensions on their website. Do you have one yourself? Wondering how well it fits on a computer desk.


----------



## Surreal1

matti55 said:


> Sure is tempting to just go all in on one of those. I don't see any dimensions on their website. Do you have one yourself? Wondering how well it fits on a computer desk.



*Chassis Size 360*360*85 MM (W*D*H)*


----------



## JSOppenheimer

matti55 said:


> I'm currently running the Auteur of a Magni3/Modi3. I've been looking into R2R 11 or the NFB-11.28 as a possible upgrade. Will there be any noticable difference? Anyone have a recommendation for one over the other for the Auteur?


I wouldn't bother with that kind of "upgrade", it would be more of a sidegrade. Audio-GD's sound signature certainly is different from Schiit's, especially if we're talking about R2R-11, but I wouldn't necessarily see R2R-11 or NFB-11.28 being more technically proficient than the typical Schiit stack.


----------



## matti55

Good to know. Indeed I'm loving the sound of the Auteur with the Schiit stack, so I guess a more pricier combo makes more sense as a true upgrade.


----------



## sennsay

matti55 said:


> Good to know. Indeed I'm loving the sound of the Auteur with the Schiit stack, so I guess a more pricier combo makes more sense as a true upgrade.


Yes ... in my experience that is true - see my recent posts a page or two back - as I own both and neither of them is 'above' the other. In saying that, if I want a long listening session with the HD540 Ref1s and hear everything I can in 3D space, then the Schiit stack has it, greater transparency makes the difference for me. The R2R-11 is warmer and denser while sounding fantastic with my brighter  Senn HD430's. Next true upgrade for me will be the far more expensive Yggdrasil, might as well go all out  Check out the Yggy 2 thread for the stunning results of Schiit's recent upgrades to this DAC.


----------



## Mattuz

Hi guys, I have purchased an R2R-11 one month and a half ago from MagnaHi-Fi (_and I asked them to install the mod to disable Fixed output making it the same as when Variable is selected_). I am really satisfied with the sound, but I have three issues (1 is the main one):

1) They said this is an updated unit, so the pop should be absent, but there is actually a tiny bit. This do not bother me anyway

2) My system is composed by: PC-AudioGD-Schiit Sys-Anaview AMS0100-Wharfedale Diamond 210
To the Schiit Sys there is attached the AudioGD and a Schiit Mani for my Turntable

When using Variable and Fixed output there is some white noise in the background that does not depend on the PC. I have an Anaview AMS0100 as final for my bookshelves and it didn't make any noise until now. There is no noise when it is on, noise starts only when switching on also the AudioGD selecting Fixed or Variable output. This noise becomes less if I lower the volume on my Schiit SyS and turn higher the volume on the AudioGD. Nothing changes if I bypass the Sys and go straight to the Anaview, it is even more present because without the sys I cannot do the "trick" of lowering the volume

3) When using OPT in there are some strong pops during music reproduction both in normal Windows audio and using WASAPI, also when nothing is in reproduction. This is what bothers me the most. This problem is not present when using USB. I also tried two different cables


----------



## myusernameislove (Oct 31, 2018)

myusernameislove said:


> Just to let you all know, R2R-11 sounds spectacular with HD540 and HD560 Sennheiser headphones. AKG K240DF is on its way, so I'll let you know what is the definitive best sounding affordable headphone with R2R-11 very soon. Both these headphones slay HE-400i, no competition there.
> 
> {edit - new headphone cable is a must, otherwise both headphones sound too thin and bright}



So lets hear it - ladies and gentlemen, the best sounding affordable headphones (so far discovered)  are...!
ok no such thing exists - and the sound depends heavily on pads used, which I compared thouroughly, and choosed one for each headphone, that sounds best to my ears..
*AKG K240 Sextett MP 600 Ohm with Stock pads* (stock pads do it best for raw sound) -> death metal, punk. Very flat, raw sound. Guitars are in front. Impressive for bad recordings and raw guitars and voices.
*AKG K240 DF 600 Ohm with Brainwavz pads* -> mediocre detail retrieval and clarity, but tonality is simply best of all headphones I tried, they sound very relaxed and rounded, soundstage is not big. Bass is on pair with HD540, but as how these headphones do everything, it sounds softer. Very suitable for relaxed listening. Good for all genres.
*HD540 Reference EP 600 Ohm with stock pads (refurbished)* -> outstanding clarity, outstanding sound of notes, positioning, also good bass and wide soundstage. Its sound is hard (NOT SOFT) and is very suitable for "reading music" and enjoying each note. Excels in technicality, but may not be suitable for relaxed musical listening.
*HD560 Ovation MP-LP 300 Ohm with HD430 pads* -> 1 step down in clarity and pronunciation from HD540, yet still much cleaner than AKG K240 DF. Soundstage is not as wide as HD540, it also is taller. Brighter - lacks bass a bit. Very suitable for music enjoyment due to less clinical and more soft sound (than that of HD540). It may sound bright on most recordings, but may hit the spot with others.
*Hifiman HE-400i with MrSpeakers Alpha Pads* -> bass is excellent, sound is not coherent enough (in comparison to Edition X V2), high frequencies are worse (shifted and clouded) than all above mentioned headphones. All those above mentioned headphones are better for music listening. He-400i is more suitable for playing computer games and movies, it deforms music somehow due to the way it plays High frequerencies and it also does something to the soundstage in that manner. May be caused by pads, but it does not matter anymore.. All of those headphones above present music in more wonderful way, although each of them has its own flaws and strengths.

to be compared: HD565
and later: HD430, HD250, pioneer monitor 10 and others


----------



## sennsay

myusernameislove said:


> So lets hear it - ladies and gentlemen, the best sounding affordable headphones (so far discovered)  are...!
> ok no such thing exists - and the sound depends heavily on pads used, which I compared thouroughly, and choosed one for each headphone, that sounds best to my ears..
> *AKG K240 Sextett MP 600 Ohm with Stock pads* (stock pads do it best for raw sound) -> death metal, punk. Very flat, raw sound. Guitars are in front. Impressive for bad recordings and raw guitars and voices.
> *AKG K240 DF 600 Ohm with Brainwavz pads* -> mediocre detail retrieval and clarity, but tonality is simply best of all headphones I tried, they sound very relaxed and rounded, soundstage is not big. Bass is on pair with HD540, but as how these headphones do everything, it sounds softer. Very suitable for relaxed listening. Good for all genres.
> ...


I'm not familiar with some of those cans, but a good 'review' nevertheless  What I _can_ say is that good cables with the HD540 Refs are paramount to putting the final touches to it's brilliance. The Mogami cable is vastly superior to the stock steel cable, which has lighter bass, upper-mid edge and peaking (a touch steely with hot voices) and is grainy in comparison. Live with the Mogami for a while and go back to stock .... it's a short, sharp, shock! All of the benefits of the stock HD540s are enhanced, the bass is extended and becomes more organic, basically the whole frequency range just opens out, smooths while retaining even more detail and becomes completely grainless. Enjoyment levels are out of sight. No matter which amplifier I use mine with, whether it's the Schiit stack, the R2R-11, a tape deck, my vintage Technics SA-290 (restored), 40 year old Akai AM-2600 (restored) and with all of those, they are still easier to drive at 600 ohms than the 22 ohm HifiMAN HE400S.


----------



## sennsay

Speaking of Mogami cable, I've just a few minutes ago finished a set for the HE400S (with A pads), jacked them into a warmed up R2R, popped on the 12" version of The The's Sweet Bird Of Truth. Brand new cable, so it needs some running in, a touch electronic-sounding is normal for this cable on initial listen, though no doubting the superb clarity, open space around notes and musicians and instruments, everything in it's own ambient space, obvious individual dynamics of very note that allows all instruments and voices to have their own life and expression. Looking forward to using the cans with the QP1R now, as it's here that these HE400S sound fantastic, a natural gelling and symbiosis. Already I am a little bit awed at how everything occupies it's own space in the sound field. Extremely revealing of recording quality though .... well, Mogami cable isn't used worldwide in recording studios for nothing! The silence between notes is darker, tiny ambient cues are hypnotic in their clarity, eyes widen and a grin appears. 
 This is why my HD540 Ref1s sound the way they do too (along with pads and inner foams), no edge, no upper-mid sharpness, extended bass and extremely clean top end that rolls off gently without smearing any tiny ambient cues. And then theirs the 3D sound space that makes the Ricki Lee Jones album "Naked Songs" both so utterly intimate and breathtakingly open at the same time, the tiniest audience movement or suppressed cough or gasp of awe effortlessly suspended in space. This is with the Schiit stack, the R2R has less of that sheer transparent openness with this album, yet adds a warm weight and extra sock to other lighter weight albums, it's got some drive! 
 Meantime, the HE400S and R2R are relatively happy with CSN&Y live from 1974. Time to let the new cable have a few hours to itself.


----------



## myusernameislove

I let my local headphone cable manufacturer do me Sennheiser cable. Its very stiff, class 6 OFC copper, and it gave the sound more body, bass is excellent, clarity around notes is also spot on. Both Hd540 and HD560 sound fantastic with it. It also has good connectors, which in my opinion is maybe the most important part of the cable. The only downside is that I need 2 of these, and soon I will need third, so I decided to keep switching 1 cable.


----------



## Mattuz

Mattuz said:


> Hi guys, I have purchased an R2R-11 one month and a half ago from MagnaHi-Fi (_and I asked them to install the mod to disable Fixed output making it the same as when Variable is selected_). I am really satisfied with the sound, but I have three issues (1 is the main one):
> 
> 1) They said this is an updated unit, so the pop should be absent, but there is actually a tiny bit. This do not bother me anyway
> 
> ...



No one has a clue? Could it be the jumper they installed to make the fixed switch to work as the variable switch to cause background noise when using speakers?


----------



## FredA (Nov 1, 2018)

Mattuz said:


> No one has a clue? Could it be the jumper they installed to make the fixed switch to work as the variable switch to cause background noise when using speakers?


You could have a ground loop. Try connecting all audio equipement to the same power distributor if not the case already.

If not a ground loop, maybe it’s the jumper, don’t know. Take off the lid (insert a thin plastic blade on a edge if having problem to lift it out after removing the screws), pull out the jumper and reinstall it while ensuring it has good grip going in. Be gentle to avoid bending a contacting pin. Make sure the pins are clean, there could be glue there. Refer to the image.


----------



## Mattuz (Nov 1, 2018)

FredA said:


> You could have a ground loop. Try connecting all audio equipement to the same power distributor if not the case already.
> 
> If not a ground loop, maybe it’s the jumper, don’t know. Take off the lid (insert a thin plastic blade on a edge if having problem to lift it out after removing the screws), pull out the jumper and reinstall it while ensuring it has good grip going in. Be gentle to avoid bending a contacting pin. Make sure the pins are clean, there could be glue there. Refer to the image.



Thanks for the reply, my audio equipment is connected to a APC "device" (not a UPS/PSU) that has 5 plugs with ground and surge protection.

If I switch on the equipment there is no noise, it starts as soon as I switch my PC on. The noise is like one of a radio station, actually it seems like it. I don't understand why if I lower the SYS volume the noise will be much lower even if I turn all the r2r volume up.

Disconnecting the PC does not change the situation. It seems there are two types of noises stacking togheter. A white noise in the background that is always present when speakers and amplifier are on, even disconnecting back USB and opt. It goes away when I turn the r2r off leaving speakers on (so it is the problem)

The second type of noise is like the one of a radio station, that is attenuated by the SYS when volume is lowered and it is present when PC is on, even if not connected via USB or optical.

I don't think that this second type of noise could be solved using something like a schiit wyrd, am I right? Since it is still present when USB is unplugged but PC turned on


----------



## FredA

Mattuz said:


> Thanks for the reply, my audio equipment is connected to a APC "device" (not a UPS/PSU) that has 5 plugs with ground and surge protection.
> 
> If I switch on the equipment there is no noise, it starts as soon as I switch my PC on. The noise is like one of a radio station, actually it seems like it. I don't understand why if I lower the SYS volume the noise will be much lower even if I turn all the r2r volume up.
> 
> ...


Try to plug your pc to the same power bar. Or another usb cable.


----------



## Mattuz

FredA said:


> Try to plug your pc to the same power bar. Or another usb cable.



The PC is plugged to the same power bar of the PC. I tried to unplug the PC because it has a UPS and it will stay powered on even when unplugged, and the noise remained.

As soon as I go home I can try to connect the whole PC + UPS to another wall plug, but it won't be so easy because is a bit far from the desk. Or I can try to plug the PC without the UPS


----------



## isoa4k

Has anyone been able to overcome the distortion present in low frequencies? Is there something inherit to the R2R architecture? I listen to a lot of ambient and in quiet passages with deep basslines isolated i can totally hear distortion. Also in sound frequency checks below 200hz i can totally hear it distorting. It annoys me because i really do enjoy its deep sound and wide soundstage but ive just got a brand new pair of LCD2s and it ****s me up so much. Im wondering if i should dump it and get the NFB11.28 TXCO. What do you guys think?


----------



## FredA

isoa4k said:


> Has anyone been able to overcome the distortion present in low frequencies? Is there something inherit to the R2R architecture? I listen to a lot of ambient and in quiet passages with deep basslines isolated i can totally hear distortion. Also in sound frequency checks below 200hz i can totally hear it distorting. It annoys me because i really do enjoy its deep sound and wide soundstage but ive just got a brand new pair of LCD2s and it ****s me up so much. Im wondering if i should dump it and get the NFB11.28 TXCO. What do you guys think?


Distorsion can occur with new cans. It happened with my new He560. Give you new hp some burn time.


----------



## JaMo

isoa4k said:


> Has anyone been able to overcome the distortion present in low frequencies? Is there something inherit to the R2R architecture? I listen to a lot of ambient and in quiet passages with deep basslines isolated i can totally hear distortion. Also in sound frequency checks below 200hz i can totally hear it distorting. It annoys me because i really do enjoy its deep sound and wide soundstage but ive just got a brand new pair of LCD2s and it ****s me up so much. Im wondering if i should dump it and get the NFB11.28 TXCO. What do you guys think?



Hi isao4k,
What is the problem? How long have You owned the R11? How many hours of burn in? The distortion You mention is not normal. The R11 needs about  a month of continous burn in.
/Jan


----------



## Xfreedomboix

Have the R2R-11. 
Having terrible pops while track is playing (foobar2000 & youtube). Pop can also be hear while people pushtotalk in discord occasionally. 
running through USB, on windows 10. 

Tried on two pc (both win 10) still got pop in song. Tried ASIO in foobar, pop is gone. Tried optical spdif, no pop in song at all, but occasional pop when people push to talk in discord...

Any idea how to solve the usb pop? As im using spdif output from old PCI soundcard... so i prefer having usb connection.


----------



## isoa4k

I am not talking about the famous pop sound. I talk specifically what its described in this reddit thread.

https://amp-reddit-com.cdn.ampproje...ncy_sweep/?amp_js_v=0.1&usqp=mq331AQGCAEoAVgB

My R2R has more than 200hr use time as well as my LCD2s. I dont think is headphone related because with my LG V20 Quad Dac i do not hear this issue neither i did with my Meizu Pro 5. I think its related with the NOS nature of the DAC or the level of THD. Drives me a bit nuts. As read in this reddit it happens to more people.


----------



## gLer

isoa4k said:


> Has anyone been able to overcome the distortion present in low frequencies? Is there something inherit to the R2R architecture? I listen to a lot of ambient and in quiet passages with deep basslines isolated i can totally hear distortion. Also in sound frequency checks below 200hz i can totally hear it distorting. It annoys me because i really do enjoy its deep sound and wide soundstage but ive just got a brand new pair of LCD2s and it ****s me up so much. Im wondering if i should dump it and get the NFB11.28 TXCO. What do you guys think?


Are you listening to DSDs? Because the R2R-11 doesn’t distort at low frequencies with PCM, at least not in my experience. There is unfortunately no solution for the DSD distortion, though. And as for the pops, make sure you have the latest firmware installed; it should all but eliminate them completely.


----------



## isoa4k

gLer said:


> Are you listening to DSDs? Because the R2R-11 doesn’t distort at low frequencies with PCM, at least not in my experience. There is unfortunately no solution for the DSD distortion, though. And as for the pops, make sure you have the latest firmware installed; it should all but eliminate them completely.



Thanks for your reply. Its not DSD "noise" as i already experienced this issue with other DSD files. I hear it with my flac files or even mp3. Its like it generates high pitched distortion, like armonics that produce a rattling sound when bass is reproduced quietly or solo.


----------



## gLer

isoa4k said:


> Thanks for your reply. Its not DSD "noise" as i already experienced this issue with other DSD files. I hear it with my flac files or even mp3. Its like it generates high pitched distortion, like armonics that produce a rattling sound when bass is reproduced quietly or solo.


Hmm, can’t say I ever heard this with my R2R-11. In any case I wouldn’t swap it for an NFB-11; rather consider the R-28, which fixes all the ‘issues’ and gives you a much better dac AND amp in the bargain (assuming you have the extra budget).


----------



## capetownwatches

gLer said:


> Hmm, can’t say I ever heard this with my R2R-11. In any case I wouldn’t swap it for an NFB-11; rather consider the R-28, which fixes all the ‘issues’ and gives you a much better dac AND amp in the bargain (assuming you have the extra budget).


In my experience with the R2R11 the only issues I had were with DSD playback. 
PCM was perfectly glorious, even with the original firmware.
Perhaps take the esteemed gLer's advice and throw some further money at the problem...


----------



## Pharmaboy

capetownwatches said:


> throw some further money at the problem



You know, saying that is like serving alcohol at an AA meeting.

Apart from the cheesy analogy, I'm still very interested in the R-1, but see almost no sonic comments on it, apart from one fellow who compared his R2R 1 to other AGD DACs.

I would be replacing the Audio GD NOS 19 with it & find myself wondering what that would actually accomplish sonically. 

Anybody have the R-1 or R2R-1 & care to comment?


----------



## gLer

Pharmaboy said:


> You know, saying that is like serving alcohol at an AA meeting.


Isn’t audiophilia the same thing, or worse!? 



Pharmaboy said:


> Apart from the cheesy analogy, I'm still very interested in the R-1, but see almost no sonic comments on it, apart from one fellow who compared his R2R 1 to other AGD DACs.
> 
> I would be replacing the Audio GD NOS 19 with it & find myself wondering what that would actually accomplish sonically.
> 
> Anybody have the R-1 or R2R-1 & care to comment?


Anyone with an R-28 can probably answer that - except you’d need to find an R-28 owner who’s also heard the NOS 19. Perhaps ask Kingwa - although as you probably know his answers are more cryptic than Yoda’s!


----------



## Pharmaboy

gLer said:


> Isn’t audiophilia the same thing, or worse!?
> 
> Anyone with an R-28 can probably answer that - except you’d need to find an R-28 owner who’s also heard the NOS 19. Perhaps ask Kingwa - although as you probably know his answers are more cryptic than Yoda’s!



Thanks for the reply. And I realized minutes after posting this that I'm basically in the wrong thread--my question concerned the R2R-11's big brother, the R-1. I like just about everything I read about the R2R-11 (and don't care about DSD), but am more interested in desktop-size multibit...


----------



## JKDJedi

Chopin75 said:


> yah, 1000hrs for R2R7 (R-7), but it is a larger machine. How about changing the source? The Audio-gds may be very sensitive to the source, like the R-7. Ipad, low res may not be ideal and the R2R-11 can mercilessly show the flaws. You may need a matching source. e.g. the basic SOTM if you don't have a computer. Check out R2R7 thread, someone did try Raspberry Pi with great results. I am using Euphony Audio which sounds superb but won't work on ipad alone, needs a computer to boot from.


I concur, the Audio-gd will reveal any or all flaws in your music files


----------



## JKDJedi

So ive always experienced some sort of distortion off my nfb 11.28 (year and a half old) and on certain track some high gain, (as that normal for anything recordered in the 70's and lower?) For the price range on this dac I guess its still a bargain, the sound signature as mentioned above is great, mates well with my hd6xx. Ive just discredited what I was hearing as possibly the headphones cant handle the power kind of thing. Talking about my Philips Fedelio X2. But just this morning I read an article concerning the Audio-GD 28.28 dac amp. It was not good. It was all about the measurements, and distortion and high gain was terrible to say the least. His dissapoitment was what was advertised on their website was not even close to what he got in his lab. So are these guys over hyped? Somewhere in this thread its been posted that adding a $200 schitt jitter cleaner between your source and Audio-Gd would significantly improve your listening experience and I've always pooed on that notion, but now ready this article...im really starting to wonder.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...audio-gd-nfb28-28-dac-and-headphone-amp.5147/


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> So ive always experienced some sort of distortion off my nfb 11.28 (year and a half old) and on certain track some high gain, (as that normal for anything recordered in the 70's and lower?) For the price range on this dac I guess its still a bargain, the sound signature as mentioned above is great, mates well with my hd6xx. Ive just discredited what I was hearing as possibly the headphones cant handle the power kind of thing. Talking about my Philips Fedelio X2. But just this morning I read an article concerning the Audio-GD 28.28 dac amp. It was not good. It was all about the measurements, and distortion and high gain was terrible to say the least. His dissapoitment was what was advertised on their website was not even close to what he got in his lab. So are these guys over hyped? Somewhere in this thread its been posted that adding a $200 schitt jitter cleaner between your source and Audio-Gd would significantly improve your listening experience and I've always pooed on that notion, but now ready this article...im really starting to wonder.
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...audio-gd-nfb28-28-dac-and-headphone-amp.5147/


Without going into detail on the technicalities, firstly don’t believe everything you read on that site (where measurement count more than actual listening results), and second; the Audio-gd amps and dacs (especially the R2R’s but also the NFBs) are known not to measure very well, and yet (in my experience) they sound sublime. There’s only one source you should trust, and that’s your ears. 

That said I recently added an Ideon 3R USB reclocker/signal regenerator between my Mac mini and R-28 dac/amp and the difference is substantial. Thing is, it’s not the amp or dac at fault, but the dirty signal from the Mac. Feed in a good clean signal and you’ll be pleasantly surprised how good these components are.


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> Without going into detail on the technicalities, firstly don’t believe everything you read on that site (where measurement count more than actual listening results), and second; the Audio-gd amps and dacs (especially the R2R’s but also the NFBs) are known not to measure very well, and yet (in my experience) they sound sublime. There’s only one source you should trust, and that’s your ears.
> 
> That said I recently added an Ideon 3R USB reclocker/signal regenerator between my Mac mini and R-28 dac/amp and the difference is substantial. Thing is, it’s not the amp or dac at fault, but the dirty signal from the Mac. Feed in a good clean signal and you’ll be pleasantly surprised how good these components are.


Your right they do sound great and I think getting an in between scrubber will greatly enhance the Audio-gd, have it hooked up to my PC. So yeah, I'll give that 3R USB reclocker/signal regenerator a shot!


----------



## FredA

The guy doing the measurements at audiosciencereview has the Topping DX-7 as one or the best measured dac so far. Topping, really? He also states the Schitt Yggdrasil is no good. I am far from sure he knows how to use his analyzer.

Also, distorsion is a very common thing in recordings, even with recent ones. Any transparent source will reveal it, especially on heaphones.


----------



## elira

Something interesting is that he’s getting different power results for low and high gain when there shouldn’t be any. The only difference between those is that high gain skips some steps of the discrete volume control.


----------



## JKDJedi

I couldn't find the Ideon so just grabbed the Schiit Eitr..in da mail. Hope that works out.


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> I couldn't find the Ideon so just grabbed the Schiit Eitr..in da mail. Hope that works out.


Should work well, although I’ve never used the Eitr. Just be aware you’ll be losing DSD capability with the Eitr, in case that’s important to you.


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> Should work well, although I’ve never used the Eitr. Just be aware you’ll be losing DSD capability with the Eitr, in case that’s important to you.


Thanks, hope it works out too, 15 days before I can send it back   and DSD...never really got into them, and there doesn't seem to be a large library of those around, at least in my music genera. Most of my files are FLAC and maybe 320k mp3. Curious to hear how Tidals Master files sound with this setup, and if gets rid of high noise...worth the $200.


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> Thanks, hope it works out too, 15 days before I can send it back   and DSD...never really got into them, and there doesn't seem to be a large library of those around, at least in my music genera. Most of my files are FLAC and maybe 320k mp3. Curious to hear how Tidals Master files sound with this setup, and if gets rid of high noise...worth the $200.


For sure! Please post your findings here, I’ve been curious about the Eitr myself.


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> For sure! Please post your findings here, I’ve been curious about the Eitr myself.


Just in guys..waiting for a quiet time before A and B tests.. So stoked..I really hope it makes a difference.


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> Should work well, although I’ve never used the Eitr. Just be aware you’ll be losing DSD capability with the Eitr, in case that’s important to you.


Ummm DSD in full Effect off the EITR ..IT's working..


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> Ummm DSD in full Effect off the EITR ..IT's working..


Whatever you’re playing, it can’t be native DSD. Most likely converting to PCM on the fly. Schiit does not support DSD transmission with any of their gear.


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> Whatever you’re playing, it can’t be native DSD. Most likely converting to PCM on the fly. Schiit does not support DSD transmission with any of their gear.





gLer said:


> Whatever you’re playing, it can’t be native DSD. Most likely converting to PCM on the fly. Schiit does not support DSD transmission with any of their gear.


Well blow me down and pick me up...your right! I ran through the settings and selected DSD only and nada..  interesting.


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> Well blow me down and pick me up...your right! I ran through the settings and selected DSD only and nada..  interesting.


Yep, Schiit has a company policy of not supporting DSD on any of their dacs or devices, even though their AKM dacs can technically decode DSD. Go figure. It’s the one reason I haven’t bought any Schiit gear, not that I listen to DSD very often. 

You can still keep DSD support by plugging your NFB-11 via USB and via the Eitr. Doesn’t have to be one or the other. You can simply switch between inputs to USB when you feel like some DSD goodness.

What are your impressions of the Eitr so far? Has it made a difference?


----------



## JKDJedi (Nov 11, 2018)

gLer said:


> Yep, Schiit has a company policy of not supporting DSD on any of their dacs or devices, even though their AKM dacs can technically decode DSD. Go figure. It’s the one reason I haven’t bought any Schiit gear, not that I listen to DSD very often.
> 
> You can still keep DSD support by plugging your NFB-11 via USB and via the Eitr. Doesn’t have to be one or the other. You can simply switch between inputs to USB when you feel like some DSD goodness.
> 
> What are your impressions of the Eitr so far? Has it made a difference?


well, initial impressions are no wow factor. It does feel like its a little more musical, just a little, $200 more musical...no (unless 10% more is worth 200 to you then yes..great).  Listening to So What by Miles Davis, his instrument plays a little smoother and higher (position wise). I have read that after some burn in the sound diffrence can be more discernable, so reserving my thoughts until Monday morning. Leaving it on till then.
Edit:  Mondays listen will be with Radioheads Creep


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> well, initial impressions are no wow factor. It does feel like its a little more musical, just a little, $200 more musical...no (unless 10% more is worth 200 to you then yes..great).  Listening to So What by Miles Davis, his instrument plays a little smoother and higher (position wise). I have read that after some burn in the sound diffrence can be more discernable, so reserving my thoughts until Monday morning. Leaving it on till then.
> Edit:  Mondays listen will be with Radioheads Creep


In my case the difference was large and immediate. Then again my solution was a USB reclocker/regenerator, so I’m not swapping USB for Coax. My R-28 felt like it ‘snapped into focus’ with all vocals being far less ‘echoey’ and suddenly more distinct, and far better separated from instruments (and instruments from other instruments). What I’m saying is there was nothing subtle about the change. 

Perhaps your source is cleaner than you think? If it is you won’t notice much change because all it’s doing is cleaning up your source signal.


----------



## JKDJedi

Got home earlier than expected and found a tune that I really like, to have a sit down listen. Lee Fields,The Expressions version of Honey Dove. The EITR improves on the sound. Its more organic, bass a little deeper, voice more realistic. Versus the tiny mic sound without the EITR. And it does widen the soundstage a little as already mentioned here 100 times. Keeper. Not a sceptic anymore.


----------



## zakazak

Quite a long thread. Is there a short answer on which one I should rather get for my HD600/HD660S?
R2R or NFB11 ?

Also, is it any upgrade over the NFB 12.1?


----------



## FredA (Nov 17, 2018)

zakazak said:


> Quite a long thread. Is there a short answer on which one I should rather get for my HD600/HD660S?
> R2R or NFB11 ?
> 
> Also, is it any upgrade over the NFB 12.1?


The r2r-11 is more spacious and has better timbres. The sound is leaner while remaining on the warm side. It's not a night and day difference but i prefer the r2r-11 by a clear margin.


----------



## benirohit458

Will the NFB-11 pair well with the DT990s?
I own a pair of HD6XXs, just looking to expand the spectrum of sound signature.
The HD6XX being warm, will the bright DT990s be a good addition to my collection?


----------



## gLer

benirohit458 said:


> Will the NFB-11 pair well with the DT990s?
> I own a pair of HD6XXs, just looking to expand the spectrum of sound signature.
> The HD6XX being warm, will the bright DT990s be a good addition to my collection?


Depends if you like bright headphones. Personally I find the DT990 painfully bright, like a knife to the brain, but everyone hears differently so who knows? The NFB-11 will drive them fine.


----------



## JKDJedi

benirohit458 said:


> Will the NFB-11 pair well with the DT990s?
> I own a pair of HD6XXs, just looking to expand the spectrum of sound signature.
> The HD6XX being warm, will the bright DT990s be a good addition to my collection?


I read the Dark Voice AMp can transform the HD6XX into another animal. MAssdrop sells them at a ridiculous low price but you have to wait awhile for delivery which sucks. And if your like me, when the Holidays come around, you have to have a new set of cans!!! Buy from Amazon, they have a no hassle return policy which I love, I'm debating grabbing the 250ohm DT 770 Pros or the HiFiman HE 400i . If you really want to try something out of the box...Check out the 1More Triple Driver Over Ear Headphones. Some decent reviews off those cans.


----------



## alota

Sorry to ask. I saw in your signature yoi have lg 20. Any provlem with amanero or works good?thanks in advance


----------



## JKDJedi

alota said:


> Sorry to ask. I saw in your signature yoi have lg 20. Any provlem with amanero or works good?thanks in advance


Not at all..lol.. I don't use my smartphone off the Audio-Gd.... I primarily use my smartphone (LGV20) for my In Ear Monitors (IEM). Amernero USB is great but for OPTIMUM listening off a PC you might want to get the Schiit EITR or Topping D10, they resample your USB cable info into a purer source of info for the Audio-GD, for any Amp/Dac really. I was really sceptical about it for a long time but this year gave the Schiit a try and turned into a believer after 48 hours of listening, I'm gonna (arriving this Friday) compare the Topping D10 (to the Schiit). The topping is less than half the price and doesn't need an external power source to run it. Although I'm very impressed with the Schiit. It's gonna be an interesting comparison.


----------



## alota

JKDJedi said:


> Not at all..lol.. I don't use my smartphone off the Audio-Gd.... I primarily use my smartphone (LGV20) for my In Ear Monitors (IEM). Amernero USB is great but for OPTIMUM listening off a PC you might want to get the Schiit EITR or Topping D10, they resample your USB cable info into a purer source of info for the Audio-GD, for any Amp/Dac really. I was really sceptical about it for a long time but this year gave the Schiit a try and turned into a believer after 48 hours of listening, I'm gonna (arriving this Friday) compare the Topping D10 (to the Schiit). The topping is less than half the price and doesn't need an external power source to run it. Although I'm very impressed with the Schiit. It's gonna be an interesting comparison.


Thank you. I use the lg with iem too but i use already like source because i have only tidal and uapp


----------



## JKDJedi

alota said:


> Thank you. I use the lg with iem too but i use already like source because i have only tidal and uapp


Same here.. Tidal is an EXCELLENT app for music.


----------



## alota

JKDJedi said:


> Same here.. Tidal is an EXCELLENT app for music.


indeed. at home only use uapp. better than tidal app


----------



## domho7

Hi presently I am using Audeze LCD2 and Cayin N5 dap. I am looking for a good dac, would the R2R-11 fits in with this combo. Thanks.


----------



## JKDJedi

domho7 said:


> Hi presently I am using Audeze LCD2 and Cayin N5 dap. I am looking for a good dac, would the R2R-11 fits in with this combo. Thanks.


Word is and the guy who sells/manufactures these the 11 wo


domho7 said:


> Hi presently I am using Audeze LCD2 and Cayin N5 dap. I am looking for a good dac, would the R2R-11 fits in with this combo. Thanks.


The 11.28 All the way,.


----------



## JKDJedi (Nov 24, 2018)

Playing with the Topping D10 DAC as a scrubber vs Schiit EITR.. Have to say....giving the Topping D10 48hours  before comparing it directly to the Schiit...but for the monies.....seems like the Topping D10 has A LOT going for it.


----------



## jimbop54

Can you clarify what your are using the Topping for? What is a “scrubber”?

Also, what is the unit on top of the Audio-GD?


----------



## JKDJedi (Nov 24, 2018)

jimbop54 said:


> Can you clarify what your are using the Topping for? What is a “scrubber”?
> 
> Also, what is the unit on top of the Audio-GD?


The Topping D10 is a stand alone DAC, you would need an amp with headphone and/or speaker outputs to complete the whole experience. It also doubles as a jitter reducer (Reduces the noise and ringing from data and power lines of USB ports). Your USB signal turns into a pure music source using these type of units. Schiit EITR being a poplular one here (complete electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation (via transformers), self-power of all critical low-noise and reclocking sections, and separate, precision clock sources). You plug your USB cable into said unit and then use a coaxial cable, spidif cable out from the unit into your amp. Music sounds deeper, wider, and cleaner. The unit sitting on top of my Audio-GD 11.28 is my iFi Black Label Amp/Dac. Doesn't need to be there, just there. I like my X2 cans played off the 11.28 amp, my HD6XX cans played off my Black Label Amp. Grabbing a Dark Voice amp soon. 

 I read elsewhere that the Topping D10 measured almost exactly (if not slightly better) to the Schiit EITR (wrong... it was measured against the Fulla), and no external power needed to power the Topping D10. And it auto shuts off when not in use, FOR HALF THE PRICE. (I'll be comparing both later on.. )


----------



## Ipadgg

gLer said:


> Depends if you like bright headphones. Personally I find the DT990 painfully bright, like a knife to the brain, but everyone hears differently so who knows? The NFB-11 will drive them fine.


copied from their page
NFB-11 sound detail, dynamic, control but not bright and hash.
R2R 11 had the exotic sound quality! Smooth, coherent and analogue, it had not emphasize anythings but had not miss.

they advertised their NFB 11 as not bright so does that mean it will not increase make DT 990 any worse than it is already and R2R will?
I too am getting the DT990 and i also find the treble abit too high to my liking especially if its too loud but its just nice if the volume is low


----------



## gLer

Ipadgg said:


> copied from their page
> NFB-11 sound detail, dynamic, control but not bright and hash.
> R2R 11 had the exotic sound quality! Smooth, coherent and analogue, it had not emphasize anythings but had not miss.
> 
> ...


If anything the R2R-11 is slightly warmer and more forgiving, so should theoretically better suit the brighter DT990. If you’re treble averse I’d steer well clear of the DT990. In this price range the Senn HD650/6XX is a better headphone.


----------



## benirohit458

Is it only me or is it true that the R2R11 sounds better off the optical than on USB?


----------



## JKDJedi (Nov 27, 2018)

benirohit458 said:


> Is it only me or is it true that the R2R11 sounds better off the optical than on USB?


Both the 11.28 and the r2r11 should sound better. USB isn't the best for digital music. Not by itself, something about the clocking speeds and voltage interference via usb alone that interferes with the music signal. I know, sounds like horse $h%t, I was in the same camp..but its just 1 and 0s!! Well after adding an in between source (like the Schiit EITR and Topping D10, I tried them both) converting the USB to Spidif cable.... Win, higher resolution in sound and slightly wider soundstage.  Let your ears be the judge, not your mind.


----------



## gLer

JKDJedi said:


> Both the 11.28 and the r2r11 should sound better. USB isn't the best for digital music. Not by itself, something about the clocking speeds and voltage interference via usb alone that interferes with the music signal. I know, sounds like horse $h%t, I was in the same camp..but its just 1 and 0s!! Well after adding an in between source (like the Schiit EITR and Topping D10, I tried them both) converting the USB to Spidif cable.... Win, higher resolution in sound and slightly wider soundstage.  Let your ears be the judge, not your mind.


USB isn’t inherently bad - it’s the noisy PCs the USB signal typically comes from. Stick a decent USB ‘shaping’ device like an ISO Regen, Wyred 4 Sound Recovery or Ideon 3R between a computer and your NFB-11/R2R-11, and your sound will likely pull ahead of optical/SPDIF inputs without any of their inherent limitations (jitter on optical, lack of DSD support on both).


----------



## J Mirra

Ipadgg said:


> copied from their page
> NFB-11 sound detail, dynamic, control but not bright and hash.
> R2R 11 had the exotic sound quality! Smooth, coherent and analogue, it had not emphasize anythings but had not miss.
> 
> ...



I use the T1.1 with the R2R 11 and they sound amazing the highs are perfect to my ears (T1's said to be a bright headphone) so the R2R 11 may help with other bright Beyerdynamic headphones.


----------



## sennsay

Hmm, I've noticed that with my own R2R-11 via Jitterbug/Kimber USB cable from a MacBook Pro, I found the USB input to be generally superior to Optical, the reverse of the Schiit Modi Multibit. It's more dynamic and with crisper focus, a little more 'alive'. I find the Amanero USB input to be generally much better than other's I've come across, though others will no doubt have had more experience than I have in this area and have different results. I'm very happy with the laptop to USB results with any of my headphones, even if the Ref1s still clean up for overall joy of Life.


----------



## Chopin75

sennsay said:


> Hmm, I've noticed that with my own R2R-11 via Jitterbug/Kimber USB cable from a MacBook Pro, I found the USB input to be generally superior to Optical, the reverse of the Schiit Modi Multibit. It's more dynamic and with crisper focus, a little more 'alive'. I find the Amanero USB input to be generally much better than other's I've come across, though others will no doubt have had more experience than I have in this area and have different results. I'm very happy with the laptop to USB results with any of my headphones, even if the Ref1s still clean up for overall joy of Life.


Is your optical a toslink direct from the computer ?


----------



## sennsay

Either from toslink/lappy or toslink/QP1R. The latter is a fabulously clean and silent source, especially into the Mimby (Modi Multibit). It just seems to soften the sound overall into the optical input of the R2R-11, a little 'blander'.


----------



## FredA

benirohit458 said:


> Is it only me or is it true that the R2R11 sounds better off the optical than on USB?


Depends on how good the usb port, cable, if there is a ground loop, and on the quality of the toslink out and cable as well, so no simple answer. Under the best conditions, usb should be better.


----------



## JKDJedi

gLer said:


> USB isn’t inherently bad - it’s the noisy PCs the USB signal typically comes from. Stick a decent USB ‘shaping’ device like an ISO Regen, Wyred 4 Sound Recovery or Ideon 3R between a computer and your NFB-11/R2R-11, and your sound will likely pull ahead of optical/SPDIF inputs without any of their inherent limitations (jitter on optical, lack of DSD support on b


 I think you've mentioned these options before and it's totally slipped my mind..yes my Topping D10 Coaxial out only goes to 192htz. If i had a huge DSD library Id be bummed. For future reference if and when my DSD library grows...getting that USB unit!


----------



## Ipadgg

JKDJedi said:


> Both the 11.28 and the r2r11 should sound better. USB isn't the best for digital music. Not by itself, something about the clocking speeds and voltage interference via usb alone that interferes with the music signal. I know, sounds like horse $h%t, I was in the same camp..but its just 1 and 0s!! Well after adding an in between source (like the Schiit EITR and Topping D10, I tried them both) converting the USB to Spidif cable.... Win, higher resolution in sound and slightly wider soundstage.  Let your ears be the judge, not your mind.


Will using SPDIF out from a sound card be better than a direct USB output?


----------



## JKDJedi

Ipadgg said:


> Will using SPDIF out from a sound card be better than a direct USB output?


Probably not, I really dont know, worth a try, they're not expensive compared to all the toys mentioned here so far..what $34 or so? But that being inside your PC ..not so sure how it being close to all the other perifials will effect it.


----------



## benirohit458

I've had the R2R-11 for a couple months now. And just want to confirm that the popping issue is completely gone from the USB but it's still there to a small extent on optical, barely noticeable though.


----------



## Robert Padgett

I am using the R2T-11 with a SPDIF from the HiFiBerry DigiPlus Pro, and the Toslink to the Modi MB on my HP Schiit Stack with the tube-hybrid Vali 2. My USB feed from the server goes to a Sprout 100 for YouTubes. My Vali 2 has a Telefunken tube, and it sounds great in my Sennheisers. The R2R-11's USB stage sounded great also, but with my limitations, I prefer SPDIF for Audio.


----------



## pngpng

I just got the R2R11 which sounds amazing as a dac/amp. Just for kicks I used the DAC out and sent it to my JDS o2. It gave that little amp a whole new life.
Can someone explain how much of the circuitry inside the R2R11 is being used for the DAC out? I assumed it was just the smaller Amanero Combo 384, but there's more going on right? Are the DA8 modules used in the DAC out as well?


----------



## JKDJedi

pngpng said:


> I just got the R2R11 which sounds amazing as a dac/amp. Just for kicks I used the DAC out and sent it to my JDS o2. It gave that little amp a whole new life.
> Can someone explain how much of the circuitry inside the R2R11 is being used for the DAC out? I assumed it was just the smaller Amanero Combo 384, but there's more going on right? Are the DA8 modules used in the DAC out as well?


Yes there's more going on..the amanero is suppose to clean up the USB signal a bit, the dac is really good here, off memory its a ladder dac, whatever that means..lol. Its not smoke and mirrors, its just a really good DAC.


----------



## domho7

Hi there's a Xmas & new yr promo on nfb 11.28.usd299. Should I just close my eyes and whack the nfb 11.28.


----------



## JKDJedi

domho7 said:


> Hi there's a Xmas & new yr promo on nfb 11.28.usd299. Should I just close my eyes and whack the nfb 11.28.


Heck yeah you should. Been enjoying mine for a year now, great sabre dac and lots of power. Leave it on for 2 weeks to speed up the burn in, after that, your in for a treat!


----------



## isoa4k

Would you get a 11.28 having already the R2R11? I like its sound but sometimes drives me nuts because it has distortion on some lower frequencies, like resonance. I feel it spoils my LCD2 sound...


----------



## ahmedie

There is usb mod where u cut power lane in the end of cable (using a tap) and it improved sound so much I give up my either. Now after a while I reconnected the either and the sound was smoother softer and more real. I would say between either and usb mod, it is matter of taste. I prefer either for my system bcz less bright smoother sound. Also usb mod produce more sound stage. The mod is discussed in nfb11 thread


----------



## JKDJedi

isoa4k said:


> Would you get a 11.28 having already the R2R11? I like its sound but sometimes drives me nuts because it has distortion on some lower frequencies, like resonance. I feel it spoils my LCD2 sound...


The 11.28


isoa4k said:


> Would you get a 11.28 having already the R2R11? I like its sound but sometimes drives me nuts because it has distortion on some lower frequencies, like resonance. I feel it spoils my LCD2 sound...


Wow there's a few options for you, somewhere in this thread they asked the owner (an actual visit to his shop) which amp mated best with the lcd2 and he said the 11.28. Seems like darker headphones do better with detailed dacs. But you have another option too, other posters here swear by the Schiit EITR, and I've tired it and yes, there's an improvement in dynamics and bass control. (I found a cheaper option using the Topping D10 but the Schiit is a little better (and pricier, $100 more) than the Topping D10, with some tracks I couldn't tell a difference though so I stayed with the Topping and saved a few bucs) Your 3rd option is to get one of them usb cleaners mentioned a few pages back, but they're the same cost, if not more than the NFB11.28. (if you have a large DSD library go the USB Cleaner route, if you don't grab the Schiit or Topping D10) One final thought, also posted here in this thread is that the NFB11.28 and R2R11 side by side...10% difference. Good Luck!


----------



## pngpng

I currently have an R2R-11 and the colored background isn't doing it for me. I can see it adding warmth and I get why some people might like it. I'm thinking of getting the NFB-11.28 since it's on sale. I'm hoping to getting something as clean as my JDS o2, but with a lot more power for my Argons. Will the NFB-11 do the trick?


----------



## JKDJedi

pngpng said:


> I currently have an R2R-11 and the colored background isn't doing it for me. I can see it adding warmth and I get why some people might like it. I'm thinking of getting the NFB-11.28 since it's on sale. I'm hoping to getting something as clean as my JDS o2, but with a lot more power for my Argons. Will the NFB-11 do the trick?


11.28 will do the trick, lots of power here.


----------



## Kimchee248

pngpng said:


> I currently have an R2R-11 and the colored background isn't doing it for me. I can see it adding warmth and I get why some people might like it. I'm thinking of getting the NFB-11.28 since it's on sale. I'm hoping to getting something as clean as my JDS o2, but with a lot more power for my Argons. Will the NFB-11 do the trick?


I have the jds el amp and a nfb 11.28 you might like the el amp would trade you for the r2r ?


----------



## pngpng

Kimchee248 said:


> I have the jds el amp and a nfb 11.28 you might like the el amp would trade you for the r2r ?


pm'd


----------



## isoa4k

Guys im thinking of swapping my R2R11 for a NFB-11.38 with the ESS9038Pro and TXCO built in. Am i doing something stupid? I like the R2R but i find it sometimes a bit dark and not very nice with THD distortion in some parts of my music, especially in isolated low frequency passages. My cans are an almost new LCD2F 2018. Gurus i invoke your presence.


----------



## FredA

isoa4k said:


> Guys im thinking of swapping my R2R11 for a NFB-11.38 with the ESS9038Pro and TXCO built in. Am i doing something stupid? I like the R2R but i find it sometimes a bit dark and not very nice with THD distortion in some parts of my music, especially in isolated low frequency passages. My cans are an almost new LCD2F 2018. Gurus i invoke your presence.


If there is distorsion, it is most likely due to the amp section. Planars are hard to drive. For instance, to drive the he560 properly and get the full bass extension, you need the nfb-1amp so swapping to the 11.38 won’t help IMO.


----------



## isoa4k

I dont think its the amp section. I think is related to the THD of the R2R system plus no filtering. Where i hear distort with my R2R i dont hear it with my LG V20 Phone so i feel is DAC issue.


----------



## FredA

isoa4k said:


> I dont think its the amp section. I think is related to the THD of the R2R system plus no filtering. Where i hear distort with my R2R i dont hear it with my LG V20 Phone so i feel is DAC issue.


I don’t hear any distorion with my r2r 11 unless in the recording.


----------



## domho7

Hi gurus. 
After all this reading can the nfb11. 28 or R2r drives the Lcd2 well.


----------



## JKDJedi (Dec 26, 2018)

isoa4k said:


> I dont think its the amp section. I think is related to the THD of the R2R system plus no filtering. Where i hear distort with my R2R i dont hear it with my LG V20 Phone so i feel is DAC issue.


I concur, R2R is a dated DAC system, probably the first DAC mass produced for the masses, the Sabre DAC is a perfect fit for the LCD2 Audeze.


----------



## JKDJedi

Anybody here play with the fast slow roll off jumpers inside the unit?


----------



## expon

JKDJedi said:


> I concur, R2R is a dated DAC system, probably the first DAC mass produced for the masses, the Sabre DAC is a perfect fit for the LCD2 Audeze.
> 
> Would you suggest waiting until they update the model? I was looking at getting R2R11 today as I am in China on holidays. My only concern is I have had some recommended dac/amps in the past and they all suffered from clipping the sound. It seems the amp would shut down in between songs and the start of the second song would be clipped for half a second. I am not sure if the audio gd amps do this. I want to use the amp with my PC but if sounds are going to be clipped all the time it will drive me nuts.


----------



## JKDJedi

Interesting, seems like the clicking is an inherited R2R ladder thing then.. Just get the 11.28 if your that concerned about it.


----------



## 426563

Jimster480 said:


> So you mean to come with your own subjective and misleading opinions is fine then correct? Just because it supports Audio-GD products and you happen to like them, right?
> Because NOS simply just has less detail and a higher noise-floor vs oversampling devices (which is why Kingwa's own higher end devices have oversampling options by default and you have to manually set them to NOS mode).
> Kingwa himself explained that NOS has less detail, and in every scientific paper it clearly explains why this is the case and why oversampling was originally introduced.
> Third of all, I would say that just because your claim that the R2R-11 is a great value doesn't make it so. There is alot of competition in this $400 price segment, from things like the SMSL M9, Topping DX7, Schiit Jotenhiem and even TEAC AL-101DA, xDoo TA-10... NuForce has a few offerings, JDS Labs has their Element...
> ...




"which is why Kingwa's own higher end devices have oversampling options by default and you have to manually set them to NOS mode"

How do i manually set them to NOS mode?


----------



## Robert Padgett

This is an interesting discussion. 
I have the R2R-11, and in terms of sound quality, it compared favorably with the Schiit Gungnir MB, at one-third of the cost. But it is not without some differences. I am currently using it as an HP amp and Pre-amp for a secondary system. 

The USB stage is incredible, but I have found the coaxial SPDIF does not play nice on my big system. It may be a grounding issue, but I got static charges which caused the DAC to make frying bacon crackling. I am working on another solution, which uses the Toslink SPDIF. None of this is necessarily an issue with the R2R-11, as I live in circa 1940's housing which preceded grounding of outlets.
Not too surprising, the USB feed on System Two makes a glorious sound, especially in HP mode.

I believe this unit should be considered an HP amp with a built-in R2R DAC, rather than the other way around. Class-A HP amplifier in the R2R-11 exceeded my expectation and is the preferred means of listening. I have become rather partial to tube HP amplifiers, and I found the R2R-11 to have a very "tube-like" and "analog" presentation in my HPs.


----------



## sennsay

Robert Padgett said:


> This is an interesting discussion.
> I have the R2R-11, and in terms of sound quality, it compared favorably with the Schiit Gungnir MB, at one-third of the cost. But it is not without some differences. I am currently using it as an HP amp and Pre-amp for a secondary system.
> 
> The USB stage is incredible, but I have found the coaxial SPDIF does not play nice on my big system. It may be a grounding issue, but I got static charges which caused the DAC to make frying bacon crackling. I am working on another solution, which uses the Toslink SPDIF. None of this is necessarily an issue with the R2R-11, as I live in circa 1940's housing which preceded grounding of outlets.
> ...


I find myself agreeing with you re the R2R-11, an excellent, grunty and smooth HP amp and a very good USB input! The optical input is not as good for me, it's 'softer' and a little seemingly less dynamic. Best HP listening for me is still easily the QP1R/Optical out-Mimby-Magni 3/Senn HD540 Ref1s, or the highly upgraded kit HP amp I built some years ago fed from a tubed Elekit TU 8500 preamp and all silver cables. The Mimby is more open and transparent than the R2R DAC, when I fed the R2R-11 as a DAC only into the TU 8500 the other day, I wasn't that convinced by it, the Mimby being far preferable here, with a better optical input, yet not as good on USB as the R2R.


----------



## domho7

Hi gurus who owns R2R & 11.28 which one will be better to drive the audeze lcd2. 
I also have iems which should be easy to drive. Tks for reading


----------



## PopZeus

The amplification stage for both the R2R-11 and the NFB-11.28 are the same so they will both drive the LCD2 with similar ability. The DAC stage is where the differences are. If you listen to a lot of fast, up tempo music like EDM or metal... you will probably appreciate the snappier dynamics of the NFB more. If you ever wished your computer could sound more like a nice turntable setup, try the R2R.


----------



## domho7

Tks popzeus for your explanation. Appreciate it. 
I have gotten a denafrips dac. Its a pure dac. I just need an amp now. What would you recommend. Tks again.


----------



## Robert Padgett

PopZeus said:


> The amplification stage for both the R2R-11 and the NFB-11.28 are the same so they will both drive the LCD2 with similar ability. The DAC stage is where the differences are. If you listen to a lot of fast, up tempo music like EDM or metal... you will probably appreciate the snappier dynamics of the NFB more. If you ever wished your computer could sound more like a nice turntable setup, try the R2R.


I have found the HP stage of the R2R-11 to be almost Tube-like in sound quality, and as a Class-A amp you are getting all the goody. I use my R2R-11 as my HP amp, as I could not hear a difference than with my Vali-2 HP amp with a 6SN7 tube.  Kingwa has made the sound warm and inviting--and this is without the "warm" jumpers. My two-pennies worth...


----------



## PopZeus (Jan 23, 2019)

domho7 said:


> Tks popzeus for your explanation. Appreciate it.
> I have gotten a denafrips dac. Its a pure dac. I just need an amp now. What would you recommend. Tks again.



No prob. Happy to offer my two cents! It all depends on how you prefer your sound. If you prefer a warmer tone, I’d go with the Audio-gd NFB-1 or the Massdrop LCX. There’s also the Monoprice Liquid Platinum if you are feeling the tubes. I’m a big fan of Cavalli and Audio-gd house sound, if you can’t tell. Even though the LCD2C is not a bright headphone, I’d probably go with one of the above amps.

Of course, no amp recommendation can go by without at least mentioning the THX AAA 789. People have called it neutral and transparent, which could read to some as a bit bright, but like with any pairing, it all depends on the DAC and headphones in your chain and your, uh, relationship with treble, since tone is such a subjective call. It specs incredibly well though, and it seems to audibly deliver on that spec sheet’s promise. I don’t know much about denafrips, so I have no idea what the tone of the analog signal is coming out of that DAC. It is a resistor ladder DAC though, so it has some of that tonality I’m sure.

One thing to note about these choices: the NFB and 789 have SE outputs that are almost as good as their balanced counterparts. I think the Cavalli amps tend to be designed around and favor the balanced circuit.



Robert Padgett said:


> I have found the HP stage of the R2R-11 to be almost Tube-like in sound quality, and as a Class-A amp you are getting all the goody. I use my R2R-11 as my HP amp, as I could not hear a difference than with my Vali-2 HP amp with a 6SN7 tube.  Kingwa has made the sound warm and inviting--and this is without the "warm" jumpers. My two-pennies worth...



That’s a good point. I’m not super familiar with tubes outside of a guitar amp context, but there is a smooth sweetness to the 11’s NOS sound that’s tube-like, with none of the hassle of tube rolling or wear & tear. I just made the vinyl analogy because it’s a more common touchstone.


----------



## domho7

Hi popzeus
Really appreciates your recommendations..
I have returned the Ares Dac as its having handshake compatibility issues. As space is an issue I can only think of nfb11.28 or R2R. I am afraid of having handshake compatibility issues as R2R is also ladder sys as ares.
I am using A&K SR15 as dap connecting via micro USB to USB B to dac. Aroma A100 as amp via mini jack to rca dac.
I may hv an audition on Audiolab mdac+. 
I also have a chord mojo.


----------



## PopZeus

I'm curious, @domho7, have you considered getting a DAP that doubles as a DAC for your desktop amp? Instead of using the DAP as a transport into a bigger DAC/amp combo? It just seems like a way to streamline the cost of gear you need to complete.

That said, I think resistor ladder DACs are worth the extra desktop space, so of course I'd recommend the R2R-11, R-1 (and NFB-1) or the R-28 if you're feeling really saucy. Pretty sure their DACs allow you to plug a phone or DAP into the rear USB port, but I don't know if that's with all models or only the few that offer the USB isolator upgrade. You'll have to confirm that with the company.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Robert Padgett said:


> I have found the HP stage of the R2R-11 to be almost Tube-like in sound quality, and as a Class-A amp you are getting all the goody. I use my R2R-11 as my HP amp, as I could not hear a difference than with my Vali-2 HP amp with a 6SN7 tube.  Kingwa has made the sound warm and inviting--and this is without the "warm" jumpers. My two-pennies worth...



Comments like this make me want to do something crazy--buy the R2R-11 just to hear what people are talking about. 

Do I need another NOS DAC? Hell, no. Do I need another HP amp? Again, hell no. I already own a DAC-19 & NOS 19 + multiple amps. 

But this makes me curious, since I love NOS sound and know how great AGD combo units are for headphone power.


----------



## domho7

Hi popzeus
I emailed kingwa on my problems he replied

Dear Dom,
Yes I was say the issue may on the USB interface, the Amanero in the unit.
Kingwa

Kingwa did advice me to get dac base on xmos rather than Amanero


----------



## Pharmaboy

@PopZeus, forgive me for being so lazy--but have you heard any other NOS or multibit DACs in comparison to the R-1?

That's another DAC I obsess over for one reason that will seem evident, and another that won't:

I love the sound of the Audio GD NOS 19 (best DAC I've heard)
And the R-1 can output live signal simultaneously on 3 different outputs: if I bought one w/the ACSS output changed to RCA, it would be 2 X RCA output pairs + 1 XLR output pair. And believe it or not, I could use all of them.
It's insane to always want the next thing (and I always do)


----------



## PopZeus (Jan 25, 2019)

@Pharmaboy, my multibit DAC knowledge is pretty shallow, tbh. I know the R2R-1 and 11 fairly well, because I own both. And I used to own the Mimby. Once i landed on this gear, I eased off on all the acquisitions. Unfortunately, I haven't been to a CanJam or any of the trade shows to sample any of the latest wares from DAC makers. I have no frame of reference for any other popular multibit DACs like the NOS 19, but I flippin' love my R2R-1. And because the R-1 and R-28 are iterations on the R2R's basic design, I don't feel dishonest recommending them.

The big feature for me is the switchable NOS modes on the R-1. Opening up the DAC and moving jumpers around the board is not my favorite activity, so I really am into the idea that the front panel can offer the UI for all the sound modes. Anyways, the R2R-1 is an incredible piece of gear, imho.You should just buy it right now. Then I can live vicariously through your GAS. Haha.


----------



## Robert Padgett

Pharmaboy said:


> Comments like this make me want to do something crazy--buy the R2R-11 just to hear what people are talking about.
> 
> Do I need another NOS DAC? Hell, no. Do I need another HP amp? Again, hell no. I already own a DAC-19 & NOS 19 + multiple amps.
> 
> But this makes me curious since I love NOS sound and know how great AGD combo units are for headphone power.




I was reviewing the Schiit Gumby at the time when the R2R-11 arrived, so I had an a/b reference, and Kingwa's $350USD unit punched well above its price-point. I found very similar to the Gungnir ($1249) 
Then when I thought I had my headphones plugged into the Tube HP amp, but it was the R2R-11 I did some serious critical listening some well-know test tracks...and to be honest, it was a 50-50 coin flip. 
If I had another person blindly switching, it would not have mattered. I was feeding the Mimby/Vali 2 Tube HP amp, and the R2R-11 with the same source so I was just going back and forth between the headphone jacks and Kingwa has achieved the Tube-buffer sound through headphones. (48-ohm ATH-AD500X HPs)


----------



## domho7

After Kingwa advice I finally took the plunge for NFB11.28, lets pray it arrives before the Chinese Lunar New Year so I have something to play with.

Hi owners NFB11.28 does it react to change of SQ when change of power cord. Tks,


----------



## Robert Padgett

domho7 said:


> After Kingwa advice I finally took the plunge for NFB11.28, let's pray it arrives before the Chinese Lunar New Year so I have something to play with.
> 
> Hi, owners, NFB11.28 does it react to change of SQ when a change of power cord. Tks,


Happy New Year!  I don't know if an upgraded power cord will make a significant difference with the sound quality. I have found that the gauge of the stock power cord has more of an impact than anything. I get the thickest wire in a power cord.


----------



## domho7

Hi what pure headphone amp would you use to pair with NFB11.28. Tks.


----------



## PopZeus

If you're looking to add a dedicated amp to an AIO, I'd go with a balanced amp. Otherwise, why bother? Either the NFB1 (maybe see how you like the 11 first) or the THX AAA 789 once the drop opens up.


----------



## MelonHead (Jan 31, 2019)

Guys,

After almost a year I say farewell to this thread and Audio-gd R2R DAC owners. I sold my R2R-11 and bought a Singxer SDA-1 which does DSD without any problem up to DSD512.

So far so good. I really liked the R2R sound signature, provided by Kingwa, but this Singxer is pretty close to it in NOS mode, equals in SW PCM oversampling, and surpass the R2R-11 in any DSD mode. This feature alone secured the deal for me.

By the way, I always found the amp part somewhat underdeveloped compared to the DAC part of the unit. Don't take me wrong, it's an okay HP Amp, but both my DV336SE and Little Dot MK VI+ provide lusher and more enjoyable sound, especially with upgraded tubes.

Thanks for all the support, and see you in the future hopefully. I may come back to Audio-gd as soon as Kingwa provides a dedicated, problem free native DSD512 capable, balanced, NOS (at least), R2R DAC under 1000 USD/EUR.

Bye 

MH


----------



## isoa4k

Hello everyone. I recently scored a NFB 11.38 TCXO and i'm quite very happy with it. Can someone inform me about the digital filter settings and how to set it for the best sound? I really dont know what each setting does. I have this options: 

Fast roll-off,  Linear: 
Slow roll-off, Linear: 
Fast roll-off, Minimum: 
Slow roll-off, Minimum: 
Fast roll-off, Apodizing: 
Fast roll-off, Hybrid: 
Brickwall filter:

thanks!


----------



## Xlaw

Hello, 

Which one is better suited for the Denon D7200 and D7000 ?


----------



## Xlaw

Hello. Which one is better suited for the Denon D7200 and D7000 ?


----------



## Nickol (Feb 12, 2019)

myusernameislove said:


> On computer end of USB cable. Search this thread for "5V pin". You need to put slim small piece of electrical tape onto the rightmost pin of USB 2 male connector as shown here. The idea behind it is to block power from entering the cable, as R2R11 uses its own power supply.



Thank you so much for this, man!!! 
I did not hear any noise from the R2R-11 for a year, but after I connected a separate high-end amplifier to it, I began to hear a hiss and a slight buzz at a volume above average (in any of my headphones). If I disconnected the usb cable - hissing, the noise of the noise disappeared, an absolutely pure black background became.
I changed two usb cables until I saw your message. Oops - and it worked! Thank you so much !!
... Apparently, working from usb as a combo, the R2R-11 somehow muffles this noise from usb - and you don’t hear it - until you connect the R2R-11 as a DAC and a separate amplifier to it.
So I recommend it to everyone, just in case, no matter how you use your R2R-11 (as a combo or as a DAC) - do it! There is interference, just playing a combo, the R2R-11 somehow disguises them inside, with the help of its internal amplifier section.


----------



## ProLoL (Feb 12, 2019)

By the way.. it's a good practice to block the 5V pin on any usb cable with any dac.. tested on the Topping D30 as well as the R2R11, seems like all of the dacs can get a clean signal with a complete black background while blocking the 5v pin? why do we even need the 5v?


----------



## Baten

ProLoL said:


> By the way.. it's a good practice to block the 5V pin on any usb cable with any dac.. tested on the Topping D30 as well as the R2R11, seems like all of the dacs can get a clean signal with a complete black background while blocking the 5v pin? why do we even need the 5v?


Many DACs will not work from data line only. So you have to try to know.


----------



## Nickol

ProLoL said:


> By the way.. it's a good practice to block the 5V pin on any usb cable with any dac.. tested on the Topping D30 as well as the R2R11, seems like all of the dacs can get a clean signal with a complete black background while blocking the 5v pin? why do we even need the 5v?



You are absolutely right!
I would recommend this to everyone who has a separate dedicated power supply (and does not use power from USB)


----------



## VilMo

Nickol said:


> You are absolutely right!
> I would recommend this to everyone who has a separate dedicated power supply (and does not use power from USB)


+1


----------



## Nickol

Hi guys! How do you connect the device as a DAC to a separate amplifier - what do you choose: 1 Vrms or 2.5 Vrms ?
 (as you now, the R2R-11 has two fixed levels of a linear signal (2.5 Vrms fixed output, hi-gain), and 1 Vrms (fixed output, low-gain).

Which signal is better to apply from the external DAC to the amplifier: 1 Vrms or 2.5 Vrms?


----------



## ProLoL

I use high gain only.


----------



## Nickol

Nickol said:


> Hi guys! How do you connect the device as a DAC to a separate amplifier - what do you choose: 1 Vrms or 2.5 Vrms ?
> (as you now, the R2R-11 has two fixed levels of a linear signal (2.5 Vrms fixed output, hi-gain), and 1 Vrms (fixed output, low-gain).
> 
> Which signal is better to apply from the external DAC to the amplifier: 1 Vrms or 2.5 Vrms?



More opinions of others on this?


----------



## FredA

Nickol said:


> More opinions of others on this?


Whichever sounds best. Some amps will saturate when fed a 2.5v signal. Otherwise 2.5v should be better but there is nothing like triying it.


----------



## sennsay

I always seem to prefer the more dynamic and alive 2.5V setting, especially with a full size preamp. Otherwise, as FredA said, depending on mood and the following preamp/amp, whatever sounds best to you. It can depend on recording level and type of music too.


----------



## housekrl

Just pulled the trigger on r2r 11
Does anyone know how it compares to Parasound zdac v.2 ?


----------



## Robert Padgett

Nickol said:


> Hi guys! How do you connect the device as a DAC to a separate amplifier - what do you choose: 1 Vrms or 2.5 Vrms ?
> (as you now, the R2R-11 has two fixed levels of a linear signal (2.5 Vrms fixed output, hi-gain), and 1 Vrms (fixed output, low-gain).
> 
> Which signal is better to apply from the external DAC to the amplifier: 1 Vrms or 2.5 Vrms?



I have listened to both, and through headphones, the lo-gain setting sounds best, through the speaker system, the extra "umph" of high gain adds character to the sound.


----------



## ProLoL

To me high gain is best for speakers and headphones, but it's subjective. Listen and trust your ears.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I don't have an R2R-11, but I do have 2 Audio GD Amps (DAC-19 & NOS 19), both of which output 2.5v (there is no high/lo setting). This is 25% higher than the nominal 2v output typical of most DACs (my previous DACs were both ~2v output).

Reason I mention this is that any DAC you have will fit into an overall system gain structure, which is totally different for each system/person. So for someone whose system is moderate at this point (ie, find yourself really cranking the volume pot of HP amp and/or preamp-to-speakers), then maybe the R2R-11's high gain output is just what the doctor ordered.

But if you're like me w/too much system gain, the low output might be ideal.

I personally have never heard any sonic differences assoc. w/gain from DACs or HP amps.


----------



## housekrl

housekrl said:


> Just pulled the trigger on r2r 11
> Does anyone know how it compares to Parasound zdac v.2 ?



OK, so I get to answer My own Question. I live in the Seattle area and I received my R2R 11 from china on the 8th day after I ordered it. I would say thats pretty fast. 
Immediatly out of the box my impression was that it is an extremely impressive dac.(through my WA6 into HE 560) I love this combo. So after listening for awhile I decided to a/b with my Parasound zdac. Not even a competition. The R2R 11 sounds High end in comparison. Makes me feel like I wasted my money on the zdac which cost $200 more. The zdac doesnt sound bad, but R2R is in another class. $350 is an absolute steal. And the amp sounds quite good also.
Ive upgraded from Musical Fidelity VDAC to Cambridge Dacmagic to Parasound zdac to the R2R 11. I think I will be quite happy for awhile. And when I do upgrade again, it will most likely be Audio gd. The price to performance ratio is insanely good.


----------



## Robert Padgett

housekrl said:


> OK, so I get to answer My own Question. I live in the Seattle area and I received my R2R 11 from china on the 8th day after I ordered it. I would say thats pretty fast.
> Immediatly out of the box my impression was that it is an extremely impressive dac.(through my WA6 into HE 560) I love this combo. So after listening for awhile I decided to a/b with my Parasound zdac. Not even a competition. The R2R 11 sounds High end in comparison. Makes me feel like I wasted my money on the zdac which cost $200 more. The zdac doesnt sound bad, but R2R is in another class. $350 is an absolute steal. And the amp sounds quite good also.
> Ive upgraded from Musical Fidelity VDAC to Cambridge Dacmagic to Parasound zdac to the R2R 11. I think I will be quite happy for awhile. And when I do upgrade again, it will most likely be Audio gd. The price to performance ratio is insanely good.



I have had my R2R-11 for several months, and if you liked it right out of the box, you have a very pleasent surprise after 100 hours of use. The NOS resistor ladder DAC has to "break-in" and it will blossom like a flower over time.


----------



## housekrl

Robert Padgett said:


> I have had my R2R-11 for several months, and if you liked it right out of the box, you have a very pleasent surprise after 100 hours of use. The NOS resistor ladder DAC has to "break-in" and it will blossom like a flower over time.



I look forward to hearing it 'blossom'.


----------



## cleg

my review of R2R 11


----------



## ProLoL

Nice, would love to see a review on a NFB 11.38 aswell.


----------



## pjyi

Would I be able to run Pioneer SP-BS22A LR speakers with my NFB 11.38?
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22A-LR-Designed-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B0148NPIM4
Heres link to amazon


----------



## Zenvota

pjyi said:


> Would I be able to run Pioneer SP-BS22A LR speakers with my NFB 11.38?
> https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22A-LR-Designed-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B0148NPIM4
> Heres link to amazon


Yes, if you put a power amp between the nfb11 and the bs22as, you would set the nfb11 to variable, and connect the power amp to the nfb11s rca outputs


----------



## pjyi

Zenvota said:


> Yes, if you put a power amp between the nfb11 and the bs22as, you would set the nfb11 to variable, and connect the power amp to the nfb11s rca outputs


Thank you! Any recommendations for power amp under $200?


----------



## Zenvota

pjyi said:


> Thank you! Any recommendations for power amp under $200?


Hmm, maybe just something cheap until you can get an audiogd precision 3s for $400? Than later when you upgrade to a balanced audio gd dac you can get a second precision for balanced drive xD


----------



## JKDJedi

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-sale-audio-gd-nfb-11-28-amp-dac-upgraded-tcxo.902051/  For Sale.. . NFB 11.28


----------



## kievhardware

Planning to get the R2R 11 soon and looking for a closed cans for office use. Considering LCD-2 Classic/Aeon Flow Closed/Audioquest Night Owl/TH-X00, but more than happy to add something to the list. It seems that I can only test LCDs in the local shop, so asking for recommendations. What do you guys think will work best with R2R? Thanks!


----------



## JKDJedi

kievhardware said:


> Planning to get the R2R 11 soon and looking for a closed cans for office use. Considering LCD-2 Classic/Aeon Flow Closed/Audioquest Night Owl/TH-X00, but more than happy to add something to the list. It seems that I can only test LCDs in the local shop, so asking for recommendations. What do you guys think will work best with R2R? Thanks!


If you read back on this thread you'll find that lcd2 is best with brighter amps like the 11.28. Don't know the sounds the other cans you mentioned. R2R is a warmer tubed like sound to it.


----------



## kievhardware

JKDJedi said:


> If you read back on this thread you'll find that lcd2 is best with brighter amps like the 11.28. Don't know the sounds the other cans you mentioned. R2R is a warmer tubed like sound to it.



Reading the thread right now, but maybe didn't make it to that message yet ) Thanks for your opinion!


----------



## Zenvota (Mar 10, 2019)

kievhardware said:


> Planning to get the R2R 11 soon and looking for a closed cans for office use. Considering LCD-2 Classic/Aeon Flow Closed/Audioquest Night Owl/TH-X00, but more than happy to add something to the list. It seems that I can only test LCDs in the local shop, so asking for recommendations. What do you guys think will work best with R2R? Thanks!



The LCD2Classic and Aeon Closed are actually decently bright headphones, at least compared to the nighowls which are legitimately dark.  I would definitely go with the aeon or lcd, theyll both pair beautifully with the r2r11.  The lcds are heavy and open, the aeons are lighter and closed.  They're both low distortion with a good treble response, both have good clean bass as well but the lcd wins in terms of impact and sustain.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersAeonsnACXB168wFilters.pdf

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Classic.pdf

The nighttowls are good clean headphones but theyll lack a bit of impact and detail compared to the other 2.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioQuestNightOwlStockPads.pdf

The THX00 has a bit less impact than the lcd, treble is smooth but its a bit v shaped and punchy, should pair well with the r2r11 as well
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FostexTHX00sn1927.pdf


----------



## kievhardware

Zenvota said:


> The lcds are heavy and open


sorry, had to mention that I'm considering the *closed* version


----------



## isoa4k

I had the R2R11 and the NFB11.38 TcXo with 2018 LCD2. Although soundstage and overall organics of the sound was a bit better with the R2R11 i stayed with the 11.38. Best detail resolve and much better THD levels. No regrets.


----------



## Zenvota

kievhardware said:


> sorry, had to mention that I'm considering the *closed* version


I thought it was weird that it said classic ;]  On that note the thx00s dont isolate anywhere near as much as the rest

The lcd2closed isnt quite as reference as the aeon closed, its a bit more like the thx00 but retains the impact and is slightly piercing
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/?...2-closed-back-headphones&catid=263&Itemid=203
similar to the lcdxc but with more bass
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCDXC.pdf


----------



## PopZeus

I’d probably aim for the Aeon Closed to pair with the R2R-11. Better for the office.


----------



## ProLoL

kievhardware said:


> Planning to get the R2R 11 soon and looking for a closed cans for office use. Considering LCD-2 Classic/Aeon Flow Closed/Audioquest Night Owl/TH-X00, but more than happy to add something to the list. It seems that I can only test LCDs in the local shop, so asking for recommendations. What do you guys think will work best with R2R? Thanks!



Luckily there's an HD250 linear 1 600 ohm on ebay,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-vinta...m4d8ec34e03:g:zTIAAOSwn2pcgk0g&frcectupt=true 

Office or not, get that one, ask me for modification of pads and foam in private message and call it end game.


----------



## Pharmaboy

kievhardware said:


> Planning to get the R2R 11 soon and looking for a closed cans for office use. Considering LCD-2 Classic/Aeon Flow Closed/Audioquest Night Owl/TH-X00, but more than happy to add something to the list. It seems that I can only test LCDs in the local shop, so asking for recommendations. What do you guys think will work best with R2R? Thanks!



I have two Audio GD multibit DACs (DAC-19 & NOS 19), and IMO, everything works with multibit. It's not a flavor or a equalize-the-sound thing for any headphone. I found it improved digital sound for every attached device. The NOS 19 is my day-to-day/primary system DAC.

Take a look at my list of headphones. They all sound good on these DACs...

BTW, I had an AGD all-in-one a couple years ago (NFB 15.32). I didn't much care for the DAC, but the single-ended amp in that device (which I'm pretty sure is the same one in the R2R 11) was well above average for me. Strong, clean, great bass. On the neutral side. Paired w/an NOS DAC like the one in the R2R 11, that's a great combination...


----------



## sennsay

Now that I have upgraded the HifiMAN HE400S with Mogami cable (Focus A pads already installed and not going anywhere!), I have fired up the R2R-11 again over the last few days and discovered that not only has the R2R become even more alive at nearer the 500 hour mark (just as Kingwa said it would), the HE400S now sound rather good with this DAC/amp! 
_Something_ has definitely happened to the R2R, as it has become even 'faster' and more dynamic that it was quite some hours ago, no matter what headphone I use with it. Dynamic range seems to have expanded and the sheer speed of drum kits and guitars has somewhat shocked me, bringing even more life and drama to the astounding dynamics on Ani DiFranco's Living In Clip pair of live albums, damn that woman can play! Andy Stochanski on drums reminds me of a cross between animal on Sesame Street -   - and Keith Moon but with more refinement. Wow. I have simply not heard the R2R like this before and although, no, it does not resolve the fine detail and sublime focus that I get through the Mimby/Slinkylinks silver cables/Elekit TU8500 valve preamp and hot-rodded h/phone amp, it is just so much fun to listen too while being different! And a lot less cabling and space taken up to boot. It seriously kicks butt down the bottom end, with both weight and taut focus, there is a visceral aspect to the R2R's amplifier which I really like, seemingly unfazed by anything at all. Love it for that. Value for money is outstanding for an all in one package and I'm a big fan of the build quality. 
 Since there is plenty of grunt to power the HE400S (they're still not that efficient, despite the 22 ohm impedance .. my 600 ohm HD540 Ref1s are still actually easier to drive initially) I switched between hi and lo gain and the difference now seems to much clearer between the two. Although you get a slightly punchier more dramatic sound with the gain on high, switching to low gain there is definitely a greater refinement and relaxation of the soundstage into a more open listening experience, the various instruments tend to spread out a little into their own space, where going back to high gain crams things up a bit and in last night's case, added a little cramping of the s/stage and a touch of coarseness to the treble. I preferred low gain with that album in particular. That visceral bass impact lessens only very slightly, yet retains the focused punchy tautness and detail, actually better balanced from top to bottom in some cases. 
 I couldn't hear such differentiation a month or two ago and now it's quite obvious after quite a few more hours on the R2R-11. The upgrades to the HE400S have allowed me to hear things more clearly now - the Ref1s are always brilliant, but it's the HE 400S I like with the R2R, a bit of a turnaround now that they have their much better cable, as if they are better driven now.


----------



## Nickol

isoa4k said:


> I had the R2R11 and the NFB11.38 TcXo with 2018 LCD2. Although soundstage and overall organics of the sound was a bit better with the R2R11 i stayed with the 11.38. Best detail resolve and much better THD levels. No regrets.



Tell me, have you heard these much better THD levels with your own ears?


----------



## ProLoL

Nickol said:


> Tell me, have you heard these much better THD levels with your own ears?



Sound stage of the R2R11 was better? against ES9038Pro? no way..


----------



## isoa4k

I perceived a wider soundstage with the R2R, yes. Thats my appreciation. Not much of a difference i have to say. As of THD distortion i could hear very clearly passages of solo basslines distorting. The NFB with best THD levels and filtering does not exhibit this behaviour. Clear and detailed perfect sound. Its a ****ing shame to hear distortions using an Audeze LCD2 headphones. Thats why i changed the amp. Overall it sounded awesome for the price point.


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 24, 2019)

Sine R2R 11 does not have up sampler inside the dac section I have tried roon and player HD for very long time, well they gave better results than when playing without up sampler but still made my r2r 11 more like stigma dac in sound. I have tried audirvana+ for window 10 with up sampler, though schiit eitr, and the results is far more amazing than HDplayer or Roon. Very smooth extended treble, better sound-stage and imaging, and bass is weighty. Highly recommended if you think R2R11 lacks treble extension and specially if you use tidal/ or have your own library.


----------



## ahmedie

ProLoL said:


> Sound stage of the R2R11 was better? against ES9038Pro? no way..



For me R2R11 have really big sound stage almost masive/exaggerating wish it is smaller LOL


----------



## ahmedie

isoa4k said:


> I had the R2R11 and the NFB11.38 TcXo with 2018 LCD2. Although soundstage and overall organics of the sound was a bit better with the R2R11 i stayed with the 11.38. Best detail resolve and much better THD levels. No regrets.


Add audirvana plus to your R2R11 and you will have best of two worlds ! details and resolve, organic sound and sound-stage !


----------



## Robert Padgett

ahmedie said:


> Sine R2R 11 does not have up sampler inside the dac section I have tried roon and player HD for very long time, well they gave better results than when playing without up sampler but still made my r2r 11 more like stigma dac in sound. I have tried audirvana+ for window 10 with up sampler, though schiit eitr, and the results is far more amazing than HDplayer or Roon. Very smooth extended treble, better sound-stage and imaging, and bass is weighty. Highly recommended if you think R2R11 lacks treble extension and specially if you use tidal/ or have your own library.



NOS in this case means Non-Over-Sampling.


----------



## ProLoL

Once changed from QP1R to the R2R11, the sound stage shrank immensely.. The ES9038Pro is like the Mercedes of sound stage.
Although I do love the sound stage of the R2R11, it's very intimate against a delta sigma.


----------



## J Mirra

ProLoL said:


> Once changed from QP1R to the R2R11, the sound stage shrank immensely.. The ES9038Pro is like the Mercedes of sound stage.
> Although I do love the sound stage of the R2R11, it's very intimate against a delta sigma.


If I listen from a cold start the R2R11 is quite boring and the stage is small, give it half an hour and it's a different beast.


----------



## ProLoL (Mar 24, 2019)

J Mirra said:


> If I listen from a cold start the R2R11 is quite boring and the stage is small, give it half an hour and it's a different beast.



I've been using my R2R11 since 2017, my favorite unit which made me even sell my CMA600i. Sound stage is good, don't get me wrong, but QP1R's was wider, so as CMA600i was wider, feeding the R2R11 via the CMA600i took the musicality to an incredible level!
Wanted to purchase a cma800r golden not long ago but it has been sold.


----------



## J Mirra (Mar 24, 2019)

I used the T1.1 nearly exclusively since I got mine February 2018 because the match of a warm tilt with a wide resolving headphone matched perfectly.

I have just got my hands on a second hand mint set of HD800 and again its a hell of a match, everything just sounds so right across the frequencies. The sound stage is holographic on well recorded material, vocalists singing out in the room suspended middle between the instruments like a well set up near field speaker rig is playing to me, in love with this


----------



## ProLoL

J Mirra said:


> I used the T1.1 nearly exclusively since I got mine February 2018 because the match of a warm tilt with a wide resolving headphone matched perfectly.
> 
> I have just got my hands on a second hand mint set of HD800 and again its a hell of a match, everything just sounds so right across the frequencies. The sound stage is holographic on well recorded material, vocalists singing out in the room suspended middle between the instruments like a well set up near field speaker rig is playing to me, in love with this



Watching movies with HD800 + R2R11 was incredible. The sound stage of the unit is very holographic yet realistic unlike other devices that exaggerate with the sound stage.


----------



## Zenvota

ProLoL said:


> Watching movies with HD800 + R2R11 was incredible. The sound stage of the unit is very holographic yet realistic unlike other devices that exaggerate with the sound stage.


You owe it to youself to try Out of Your Head(link in sig) with that setup, recommend eqing the headphones flat.


----------



## ahmedie

J Mirra said:


> If I listen from a cold start the R2R11 is quite boring and the stage is small, give it half an hour and it's a different beast.


mine is always ON for a year now


----------



## ahmedie (Mar 25, 2019)

seriously guys you should try audirvana plus and use custom upsample SoX Filter, everything to 384khz, only use PCM as R2R dac sound better with PCM input, turn off all DSD options and u are good to go ! Really amazing sound #"$"#, I literally hear new details in every other track, Really big improvement


----------



## Kitarist

So guys which one is worth buying or which one pairs better with HD600 or HD650 and Fidelio X2HR?

Have to mention i love details  Is there a big difference in terms of sound between those two?

Btw if anyone is from EU and is selling a used one just send PM interested in buying

Thanks


----------



## Kitarist

Also is there anything similar or better in this price range?


----------



## PurpleAngel

I'm currently using the NFB-11.28, but thinking of replacing it with the Topping DX7s, as it comes with balanced outputs for both headphones and speakers
and it comes (optional) with a remote.
I decided to try balanced headphones and run balanced cables to my studio monitors (looking as buying Massdrop/JBL LSR30X).
Audio-GD balanced DACs just cost way more, for balanced outputs (w/remote).


----------



## FredA

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm currently using the NFB-11.28, but thinking of replacing it with the Topping DX7s, as it comes with balanced outputs for both headphones and speakers
> and it comes (optional) with a remote.
> I decided to try balanced headphones and run balanced cables to my studio monitors (looking as buying Massdrop/JBL LSR30X).
> Audio-GD balanced DACs just cost way more, for balanced outputs (w/remote).


The nfb-28 costs more and is worth easily more. Depends on your budget and preferences. I would get the nfb-28 with the accusilicon tcxo upgrade if had to upgrade from the 11.28. You get a discrete balanced amp with plenty of power, and it will drive just about any headphones.


----------



## Zenvota

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm currently using the NFB-11.28, but thinking of replacing it with the Topping DX7s, as it comes with balanced outputs for both headphones and speakers
> and it comes (optional) with a remote.
> I decided to try balanced headphones and run balanced cables to my studio monitors (looking as buying Massdrop/JBL LSR30X).
> Audio-GD balanced DACs just cost way more, for balanced outputs (w/remote).





FredA said:


> The nfb-28 costs more and is worth easily more. Depends on your budget and preferences. I would get the nfb-28 with the accusilicon tcxo upgrade if had to upgrade from the 11.28. You get a discrete balanced amp with plenty of power, and it will drive just about any headphones.



The Topping units dont render microdetail(soundstage information, room acoustics, decay, etc.) anywhere near as well as the Audio-GD circuits.  The non feedback might not do as well under torture tests but in actual rendering the recording theres no contest.  Audio GDs current signal is more natural and uncolored as well.  It has been said, a good single ended circuit is better than a not as good balanced one.


----------



## FredA (Apr 13, 2019)

Zenvota said:


> The Topping units dont render microdetail(soundstage information, room acoustics, decay, etc.) anywhere near as well as the Audio-GD circuits.  The non feedback might not do as well under torture tests but in actual rendering the recording theres no contest.  Audio GDs current signal is more natural and uncolored as well.  It has been said, a good single ended circuit is better than a not as good balanced one.


Listening to the Master-3, using the same non feeback design, i am getting the richest sounding, most transparent and smoothest speaker amp i have ever owned. Good point also with single-ended vs balanced


----------



## djsolidsnake86 (Apr 15, 2019)

Hi to all, the 11.38 is way better than 11.28? the only difference is the es9038 vs 9028?
11.38 as the TCXO already or must be modified like 11.28?
with a hd599, smsl sa-36a pro and scythe scbks-1100 kro craft speaker rev. b what of that 2 amp do you suggest me? thanks


----------



## sennsay

Just for a change of conversation, I came across this excellent little interview with the great Dan D'Agostino, of Krell and D'Agostino fame, discussing with Steve Guttenberg on the "measurements rule all .. or not" issue. 
From the master himself, it's enlightening to hear his personal take on the subject. Seems a lovely man and a true master of his craft.


----------



## FredA

sennsay said:


> Just for a change of conversation, I came across this excellent little interview with the great Dan D'Agostino, of Krell and D'Agostino fame, discussing with Steve Guttenberg on the "measurements rule all .. or not" issue.
> From the master himself, it's enlightening to hear his personal take on the subject. Seems a lovely man and a true master of his craft.



Sounds similar to the way Kingwa designs his gears.


----------



## Zenvota (Apr 28, 2019)

What seems to be ignored as well, especially at ASR(and I thought about posting this there but why bother) is that the way these incredible 0.0007% distortion measurements are achieved with transistor based amplifiers is through feedback, and transistors add delay.  Say for instance you have a quick transient of a snare drum, the burst of signal goes through the amplifier and then is returned to the input by the feedback loop. By the time it gets back to the output, part of the transient has already gone and comes out distorted. This type of distortion isn't measured as distortion tests are made with steady state sine wave tones.  And this is why all these excellent measuring Topping or whoever units have a harsh/digital/etched sound to them, a slower and less detailed sound, with less microdetail/staging information, compared to audio gd or other components that focus more on sound quality then measurements.  Ive observed this in plain detail when using binaural renderers like OOYH, the AudioGD circuits are second to none until you start spending a LOT of money on krell dcs etc circuits with similar topology, the combination of ultra regulated discrete dc coupled class a no feedback current signal amplifiers is able to render every detail from the complex binaural stereo mix with ease.  Think about these audio streams, doubled in size with delay in one channel for the binaural part, and exponentially increased in size by the measured room impulse responses of room reflections from the loudspeaker systems.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sennsay said:


> Just for a change of conversation, I came across this excellent little interview with the great Dan D'Agostino, of Krell and D'Agostino fame, discussing with Steve Guttenberg on the "measurements rule all .. or not" issue.
> From the master himself, it's enlightening to hear his personal take on the subject. Seems a lovely man and a true master of his craft.




I'm so glad to see this clip. This is a master audio designer, one of the best who ever designed for the "audiophile" market. And here he is saying something that goes against the "measurements trump sonics" crowd. 

Many tussles break out here & on other sites about measurements vs musicality. And many of the comments by those who favor measurements over listening are harsh, judgemental, sarcastic--basically denying even the possibility that anything could sound good w/less than stellar measurements.

Just one of so many examples: just check out ASR boards & reviews concerning anything Audio GD makes. ASR basically tarred & feathered Audio GD on multiple occasions, all because AGD amps and especially DACs don't measure perfectly like the cheap ChiFi stuff that does. Then research those same boxes here and see just how many people love the sound of these boxes (I'm one of them).
There are other examples. 

This clip comes as quite a relief to me. I spend too much defending the validity of things I hear (vs measure).


----------



## FredA

Zenvota said:


> What seems to be ignored as well, especially at ASR(and I thought about posting this there but why bother) is that the way these incredible 0.0007% distortion measurements are achieved with transistor based amplifiers is through feedback, and transistors add delay.  Say for instance you have a quick transient of a snare drum, the burst of signal goes through the amplifier and then is returned to the input by the feedback loop. By the time it gets back to the output, part of the transient has already gone and comes out distorted. This type of distortion isn't measured as distortion tests are made with steady state sine wave tones.  And this is why all these excellent measuring Topping or whoever units have a harsh/digital/etched sound to them, a slower and less detailed sound, with less microdetail/staging information, compared to audio gd or other components that focus more on sound quality then measurements.  Ive observed this in plain detail when using binaural renderers like OOYH, the AudioGD circuits are second to none until you start spending a LOT of money on krell dcs etc circuits with similar topology, the combination of ultra regulated discrete dc coupled class a no feedback current signal amplifiers is able to render every detail from the complex binaural stereo mix with ease.  Think about these audio streams, doubled in size with delay in one channel for the binaural part, and exponentially increased in size by the measured room impulse responses of room reflections from the loudspeaker systems.


What i must add these impossible specs are obtained using artificial loads and not an actual headset.

Another point is i now have the big m3 speaker amp, which use the same basic design as the headphone amps and it’s wonderful, it reveal much more instrument textures and clearly provides much better imaging(very stable and with excellent depth), and better bass than perfectly measuring nc500-based mono amps i also own. Also, i would say it renders a blacker background. Measurements are reliable for certain aspects of sound quality, like separation, channel balance, noise level and mostly meaningless otherwise.


----------



## FredA (Apr 28, 2019)

I meant to say i laugh when i read ASR’s attempts to measure a dac’s linearity out of an output with .01% of distorsion so guess what, you won’t get better than 12-13 bits. Just normal. Speakers or headphones produce 10 times this distorsion level, to the least. Is this to say it’s not worth going beyond 12-13 bits of resolution?  Not at all! The bits, even though they are non linearly transformed are still there to be heard. This Amir guy is either the most dishonest guy or just an idiot.


----------



## Zenvota

FredA said:


> I meant to say i laugh when i read ASR’s attempts to measure a dac’s linearity out of an output with .01% of distorsion so guess what, you won’t get better than 12-13 bits. Just normal. Speakers or headphones produce 10 times this distorsion level, to the least. Is this to say it’s not worth going beyond 12-13 bits of resolution?  Not at all! The bits, even though they are non linearly transformed are still there to be heard. This Amir guy is either the most dishonest guy or just an idiot.


The sites riddled with bias, elitism, absolutionism, and supremacy, I won't go anywhere near it and I commend the people that take the time to try to attempt to have a civil discussion with them.  What's discouraging is seeing their bs parroted everywhere you go.


----------



## FredA (Apr 28, 2019)

Zenvota said:


> The sites riddled with bias, elitism, absolutionism, and supremacy, I won't go anywhere near it and I commend the people that take the time to try to attempt to have a civil discussion with them.  What's discouraging is seeing their bs parroted everywhere you go.


One guy at my office was concerned with these reviews but he did a careful a/b comparison between a schiit stack  (latest modi and magni) and my own r2r-11. I would say the Schiit stack was as good except for the highs. For classical music, the r2r 11 had a clear advantage. The comparison was done with a set of Sundaras. My friend ordered the r2r-11 because how of solidly built it is in comparison and because he prefered the sound. Listening to classical with this combo is quite awesome, very tough to beat for 700-800$ or so.


----------



## sennsay

Pharmaboy said:


> I'm so glad to see this clip. This is a master audio designer, one of the best who ever designed for the "audiophile" market. And here he is saying something that goes against the "measurements trump sonics" crowd.
> 
> Many tussles break out here & on other sites about measurements vs musicality. And many of the comments by those who favor measurements over listening are harsh, judgemental, sarcastic--basically denying even the possibility that anything could sound good w/less than stellar measurements.
> 
> ...


I'm happy to have shared such a valuable perspective, I too have had my share of defending the validity of actually listening deeply, having heard too many bits of gear over 40+ years that measured technically brilliant, yet sounded unconnected to the real content of the music, despite some fine qualities. I happily left one of the other forums here because of the ridiculous in-fighting for the very reasons you mentioned above. Crazy, they can have that ego-driven all-left-brained nonsense and play amongst themselves. And all for a really great budget amplifier too! 
 Although on occasions I prefer the Schiit Modi Multibit DAC for it's greater transparency, as a whole unit, the a-gd R2R-11 is a terrific bit of gear that I enjoy rocking out to when I'm in the mood, as it is never harsh, sharp or edgy unless the recording is way too hot, the power and depth of the bass is a delight. What's not to like, a very smooth and musically communicative DAC, a punchy and very tuneful headphone amplifier and a preamp all in one one box that can be switched between any or all of the sections? And, very nicely and thoughtfully put together as well, for a great price. Love your work, kingwa.


----------



## sennsay

FredA said:


> One guy at my office was concerned with these reviews but he did a careful a/b comparison between a schiit stack  (latest modi and magni) and my own r2r-11. I would say the Schiit stack was as good except for the highs. For classical music, the r2r 11 had a clear advantage. The comparison was done with a set of Sundaras. My friend ordered the r2r-11 because how of solidly built it is in comparison and because he prefered the sound. Listening to classical with this combo is quite awesome, very tough to beat for 700-800$ or so.


How good to get a great match up like that. Excellent, that's what's it's all about, actually _listening_ to the music! I almost exclusively use the Senn HD540 Ref 1s with my Schiit stack for that very reason, a match made in heaven; intimate, alive, brilliantly communicative of the life and soul of the music, no harshness, edge or grain whatsoever. The Sundaras will likely be a different kettle of fish, probably having more extended highs than my Ref1s. I like the HifiMAN HE400S (Mogami Cable and Focus A pads) with the R2R, the bottom end having some real sock to it when needed, love it! The drummer with Ani DiFranco on the Living In Clip album is brilliant to listen to on this combo. Great dynamics and excellent clarity and focus, let alone the sheer attack and rhythm of Ani on her guitars!


----------



## PopZeus

FredA said:


> What i must add these impossible specs are obtained using artificial loads and not an actual headset.
> ...
> Measurements are reliable for certain aspects of sound quality, like separation, channel balance, noise level and mostly meaningless otherwise.



This seems like where I've landed on measurements. Some reflect audible differences for the positive, and some really don't. Audio-gd and Kingwa really opened my ears, so to speak, about second and third order harmonics, for instance. And what little I've read on ASR doesn't sound like any audiophile review I can relate to, coming off sounding like a scientific white paper, not a review of a music delivery device. The fact that many of the people who seem to frequent that site come off as condescending doesn't help. Not all are that way, but enough that I notice how much more pleasant and friendly the non-measurements crowd is, by comparison. I get it. The allure of measurements is understandable in that we can't all hear the gear that is often under dispute, so it's easy to point to a graph or chart when we can't test listen for ourselves. But if most could actually give the R2R-11 a spin, I think they'd realize there is so much more to great audio than what ASR and it's followers claim.


----------



## djsolidsnake86 (Apr 29, 2019)

Guys it's possible that the power supply of the speaker amplifier (24v 5A) make a incompatibility with nfb 11.28?


----------



## Pharmaboy

PopZeus said:


> music delivery device



nice!


----------



## PopZeus

Pharmaboy said:


> nice!



It's true! I read those reviews and I wonder if the reviewer even likes music. To me, well-known, well-recorded music is the language that we all share, presumably. Even if you don't particularly love Pink Floyd, you probably know what Dark Side Of The Moon is supposed to sound like.


----------



## FredA

djsolidsnake86 said:


> Guys it's possible that the power supply of the speaker amplifier (24v 5A) make a incompatibility with nfb 11.28?


A cheap supply can pollute the power and create problems, but i doubt it's the case. If experiencing glitches with the dac/amp, the first thing to do is to make sure that the amanero driver is properly installed. Sound will come out of the unit with the generic driver on  Windows 10, but with the actual Amanero driver, things will be much better with regards to avoiding glitches when the cpu gets loaded. Make sure to uninstall the generic driver first if that's what you have.


----------



## djsolidsnake86

FredA said:


> A cheap supply can pollute the power and create problems, but i doubt it's the case. If experiencing glitches with the dac/amp, the first thing to do is to make sure that the amanero driver is properly installed. Sound will come out of the unit with the generic driver on  Windows 10, but with the actual Amanero driver, things will be much better with regards to avoiding glitches when the cpu gets loaded. Make sure to uninstall the generic driver first if that's what you have.


using a 12v 2a i have no problem, 
using the 19v, if the smsl is off and if i'm listening music from nfb via headphones, if i on the smsl, the music disappear from hp, and if i select variable and fixed no music, i must close the music app and reopen for make reappear the music
this don't happen if i use the 12v 2a

ps. this smsl support 12-24v


----------



## FredA

djsolidsnake86 said:


> using a 12v 2a i have no problem,
> using the 19v, if the smsl is off and if i'm listening music from nfb via headphones, if i on the smsl, the music disappear from hp, and if i select variable and fixed no music, i must close the music app and reopen for make reappear the music
> this don't happen if i use the 12v 2a
> 
> ps. this smsl support 12-24v


Seems like an electical issue, spikes of noise disrupting playback. Try a better smps.


----------



## djsolidsnake86

FredA said:


> Seems like an electical issue, spikes of noise disrupting playback. Try a better smps.


what is a smps?


----------



## FredA

djsolidsnake86 said:


> what is a smps?


Switching mode power supply. You 19v power supply might be a spms. The cheaper, the noisier. For around 20$ or a little more, you should be able to find one of decent quality. Another consideration using the nfb-11 as a pre is how much input voltage your smls can handle. You could have issues if raising the volume too much on the nfb-11. If the smsl has volume control, it should be maxed if you want to use the nfb11 as a preamp.


----------



## djsolidsnake86

FredA said:


> Switching mode power supply. You 19v power supply might be a spms. The cheaper, the noisier. For around 20$ or a little more, you should be able to find one of decent quality. Another consideration using the nfb-11 as a pre is how much input voltage your smls can handle. You could have issues if raising the volume too much on the nfb-11. If the smsl has volume control, it should be maxed if you want to use the nfb11 as a preamp.


i bought this https://it.gearbest.com/led-accessories/pp_1496821.html?wid=1433363
hope that will be good..
however my 12v 2a is a cheap power supply but don't cause that problem

yes, i can use as preamp by maxing the volume and using the variable output
do you think that is better?


----------



## Barratana

Hi,

At home I have now for comparing the 11.28 and the R2R, and the first impressions are that both are excellent piece of equipments!
During next weeks I will test them with my headphone collection and then decide wich one to keep ( if not both ).
Nevertheless first impressions are good, very good indeed.


----------



## Junkwisch

Im planning to get the amiron home,but since I need a dac/amp which one would you recommend me? (R2R11 vs NFB 11.38)


----------



## Nickol

Barratana said:


> Hi,
> 
> At home I have now for comparing the 11.28 and the R2R, and the first impressions are that both are excellent piece of equipments!
> During next weeks I will test them with my headphone collection and then decide wich one to keep ( if not both ).
> Nevertheless first impressions are good, very good indeed.



We look forward to your detailed feedback and impressions about comparing them both!
Be sure to write what you left yourself and why.


----------



## Codrin Dinu (Jun 5, 2019)

Hi guys, is the NFB 11.28 still worth it nowadays ? I am thinking of getting a used unit for around 250E. What do you think? are there other alternatives in this price range ? (EU based) In terms of output, i have Senn 6XX and Hifiman HE4XX. Currently running SMSL M3 dac/amp combo


----------



## Stanley chin

crowally said:


> *NFB-11.28 *(http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/NFB1128EN.htm)
> or
> *R2R 11 *(http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN.htm)?
> 
> What would you say?


Wonder if there's a big or just a very small different or even can't noticeable on the 2019 version,the website state that it reduce the DSD noise.I need to know the difference because i can either choose a new one or a very lightly used set for half of the new set price.


----------



## FredA

Stanley chin said:


> Wonder if there's a big or just a very small different or even can't noticeable on the 2019 version,the website state that it reduce the DSD noise.I need to know the difference because i can either choose a new one or a very lightly used set for half of the new set price.


It's not just dsd. You get a slightly better sound with pcm as the da8 board have been updated to v2,  implying improved hw.


----------



## Stanley chin

FredA said:


> It's not just dsd. You get a slightly better sound with pcm as the da8 board have been updated to v2,  implying improved hw.


If i buy the used set can i changed the board by myself?


----------



## FredA

Stanley chin said:


> If i buy the used set can i changed the board by myself?


If you can solder, yes. But i heard both v1 and v2 and the difference is small.  I would not upgrade unless a huge fan of dsd. And even then.... The boards won't be so cheap either.


----------



## Stanley chin

naif1985 said:


> Your review makes me more confident about buying the new R2R-2


The r2r-11 has a very high price/peformance value than many others, not just only very great for audio beginners,but great for many audiophiles too.


----------



## Zenvota

For anyone interested, I hit a point with my second system(using an nfb11) that I'm very happy with.

Equipment:
-HTPC
-Audio-GD NFB-11
-Topaz 91092-12(only the nfb11 on this)
-Supra USB to an Uptone USB Regen(fed by a Jameco Reliapro 9v linear regulated psu into a lt3042, and then a starquad dc cable into the regen), uptone uspcb into a Breeze DU-U8, optical toslink to the nfb11.
-Using a pair of Hifiman HE-400is with some modding, Dekoni LCD Velour pads, custom rear grills with thin open cell foam and wire grate, melamine fuzzors on rear magnets, and lined the inside of the cups with sorbothane(no resonances yay!).

So even at this point I still had a desire to upgrade the NFB11 and was looking for an older big combo unit from Audio-GD, was also considering an iso regen and ultracap lps(I've tested on this system and it made a nice difference in terms of detail, rendering OOYHs virtualization better than over optical).

But then I picked up a used VH Audio Flavor 2 cable for between the Topaz and the NFB11 and I'm very satisfied with the sound now. Not sure what to attribute it to, maybe some noise reduction from the lower inductance of the cable, the cryod wires, regardless, utterly clean and full sounding, very detailed with 0 fatigue, all the descriptors ;]

So ya.. a nice well made power cable, low inductance from twisted pair or star quad geometry, counter spiraled ground, and cryod materials, bought cheap used, sweet!


----------



## Oberoni

sennsay said:


> Now that I have upgraded the HifiMAN HE400S with Mogami cable (Focus A pads already installed and not going anywhere!), I have fired up the R2R-11 again over the last few days and discovered that not only has the R2R become even more alive at nearer the 500 hour mark (just as Kingwa said it would), the HE400S now sound rather good with this DAC/amp!
> _Something_ has definitely happened to the R2R, as it has become even 'faster' and more dynamic that it was quite some hours ago, no matter what headphone I use with it. Dynamic range seems to have expanded and the sheer speed of drum kits and guitars has somewhat shocked me, bringing even more life and drama to the astounding dynamics on Ani DiFranco's Living In Clip pair of live albums, damn that woman can play! Andy Stochanski on drums reminds me of a cross between animal on Sesame Street -   - and Keith Moon but with more refinement. Wow. I have simply not heard the R2R like this before and although, no, it does not resolve the fine detail and sublime focus that I get through the Mimby/Slinkylinks silver cables/Elekit TU8500 valve preamp and hot-rodded h/phone amp, it is just so much fun to listen too while being different! And a lot less cabling and space taken up to boot. It seriously kicks butt down the bottom end, with both weight and taut focus, there is a visceral aspect to the R2R's amplifier which I really like, seemingly unfazed by anything at all. Love it for that. Value for money is outstanding for an all in one package and I'm a big fan of the build quality.
> Since there is plenty of grunt to power the HE400S (they're still not that efficient, despite the 22 ohm impedance .. my 600 ohm HD540 Ref1s are still actually easier to drive initially) I switched between hi and lo gain and the difference now seems to much clearer between the two. Although you get a slightly punchier more dramatic sound with the gain on high, switching to low gain there is definitely a greater refinement and relaxation of the soundstage into a more open listening experience, the various instruments tend to spread out a little into their own space, where going back to high gain crams things up a bit and in last night's case, added a little cramping of the s/stage and a touch of coarseness to the treble. I preferred low gain with that album in particular. That visceral bass impact lessens only very slightly, yet retains the focused punchy tautness and detail, actually better balanced from top to bottom in some cases.
> I couldn't hear such differentiation a month or two ago and now it's quite obvious after quite a few more hours on the R2R-11. The upgrades to the HE400S have allowed me to hear things more clearly now - the Ref1s are always brilliant, but it's the HE 400S I like with the R2R, a bit of a turnaround now that they have their much better cable, as if they are better driven now.



When I first got the R2R-11 many months ago, I paired it with my Sennheiser HD6XX, and it sounded...kind of bad actually. I didn't like it, and I was thinking about trying to sell this DAC or something.

Thanks to this thread, and your recommendation in particular, I bit the bullet and bought the HE400S. HOLY PANTS. These go *wonderfully* together. I'm happy that I get to keep the R2R-11 and get some great use out of it.


----------



## sennsay

Oberoni said:


> When I first got the R2R-11 many months ago, I paired it with my Sennheiser HD6XX, and it sounded...kind of bad actually. I didn't like it, and I was thinking about trying to sell this DAC or something.
> 
> Thanks to this thread, and your recommendation in particular, I bit the bullet and bought the HE400S. HOLY PANTS. These go *wonderfully* together. I'm happy that I get to keep the R2R-11 and get some great use out of it.


Well, I'm very happy to have been of some service  I sold my HD6xx because they couldn't compete with my 30 year old HD540 Ref1s (with 'wang' pleather pads and Mogami cable), the second time I've sold on the HD650s in favour of my most favourite headphones in 45 years of hifi buffery  I did actually improve my HE400S by buying a pair of the Focus A pads, which as their name suggests improved focus and bass depth and then made my own Mogami cable for them, as I have done for all of my headphones. You may be just as happy with the stock HE400S and R2R-11 as is, you're certainly enjoying them. Kingwa is definitely correct in that the R2R-11 just seems to get better when it's had a lot of hours on it and is well warmed up.


----------



## barbz127

Can anyone comment on how either of these pair with the beyerdynamic dt880 600ohm?

Thankyou


----------



## J Mirra

barbz127 said:


> Can anyone comment on how either of these pair with the beyerdynamic dt880 600ohm?
> 
> Thankyou


I do not have the DT880, I can speak for the R2R11 pairing extremely well with the T1.1 600ohm.
Maybe somebody with the 880 will post soon with a definitive answer for you


----------



## Junkwisch

barbz127 said:


> Can anyone comment on how either of these pair with the beyerdynamic dt880 600ohm?
> 
> Thankyou



Tye NFB 11.38 worked great with the T1 2nd gen, dont have the R2R11 though


----------



## xkonfuzed

barbz127 said:


> Can anyone comment on how either of these pair with the beyerdynamic dt880 600ohm?
> 
> Thankyou



The R2R 11 pairs extremely well with my 600ohm DT880's. The warmer nature of the R2R takes the edge off the treble (ever so slightly) - makes them really sing. Bass is very well extended and controlled, overall sound is very clear and airy. I don't think you can go wrong with the pairing.


----------



## J Mirra

xkonfuzed said:


> The R2R 11 pairs extremely well with my 600ohm DT880's. The warmer nature of the R2R takes the edge off the treble (ever so slightly) - makes them really sing. Bass is very well extended and controlled, overall sound is very clear and airy. I don't think you can go wrong with the pairing.


I agree the R2R11 is great for resolving headphones, it warms them up ever so slightly and makes the highs highly detailed with no harshness.
I am in audio heaven at the moment with the the R2R11 and the HD800, the bass slams if recorded that way and there is no sibelance in the highs that I read others speak of.

I could not be happier with the DAC Amp


----------



## barbz127

Hi all,
Have been reading reviews etc on this and everything has been positive with the exception of this one.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-measurements-of-audio-gd-r2r11-dac-amp.5779/

Can anyone comment on the issues identified and how these correlate to real life usage vs measurements?

Thankyou


----------



## PopZeus

barbz127 said:


> Hi all,
> Have been reading reviews etc on this and everything has been positive with the exception of this one.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-measurements-of-audio-gd-r2r11-dac-amp.5779/
> ...



Someone else just shared that review earlier today in a separate recommendation thread. It's a shame that it's the first result in a google search, because that review doesn't do the R2R-11 justice. Sure, it has some flaws and the sound isn't for everyone, but it's still an excellent entryway into this hobby and a fine, analog-sounding DAC. To cut a little closer to your question, great measuring gear doesn't necessarily sound good, and great sounding gear doesn't necessarily measure well. Better to trust your ears (or the ears of someone who shares your tastes) over someone's chart.


----------



## barbz127

PopZeus said:


> Someone else just shared that review earlier today in a separate recommendation thread. It's a shame that it's the first result in a google search, because that review doesn't do the R2R-11 justice. Sure, it has some flaws and the sound isn't for everyone, but it's still an excellent entryway into this hobby and a fine, analog-sounding DAC. To cut a little closer to your question, great measuring gear doesn't necessarily sound good, and great sounding gear doesn't necessarily measure well. Better to trust your ears (or the ears of someone who shares your tastes) over someone's chart.


Thankyou
That is what I thought, I had only read people praising this device until someone shared this... Now on the fence.

Would you mind linking to that reccomendation?


----------



## J Mirra

barbz127 said:


> Thankyou
> That is what I thought, I had only read people praising this device until someone shared this... Now on the fence.



The R2R 11 has a warmer analogue tube like tilt that works so well with brighter headphones both my Beyer T1.1 and HD800 sound incredible to me with the R2R 1. No EQ needed, nice deep sub bass when in the recording, treble response is resolving but not harsh.

I do not care if it does not measure well on chart, it measures well to my preference in sound quality and that is what matters.


----------



## FredA

These non feedback amplifiers have a treble quality that is second to none. The smoothest you'll encounter except for a tube amp, which most often will be less accurate.

So with them, you can enjoy cans with a pass-through characteristic like most planars.


----------



## MarkArtz (Jul 1, 2019)

barbz127 said:


> Hi all,
> Have been reading reviews etc on this and everything has been positive with the exception of this one.
> 
> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-measurements-of-audio-gd-r2r11-dac-amp.5779/
> ...



They go by measures. I am sorry, but I think its crazy. its like buying a car based on just written factory specs. I know I wouldn't buy a car unless I test drive it or at least watch or read a review of somebody who really drove it. Here is a link to an informative video that anyone interested in audio science should listen to. I like Mr. Novak's remark on this video where he says: "Not all that counts can be counted, Not all that can be counted counts" (Found on Einstein's Wall) "Not all that matters can be measured, Not all that can be measured, matters"

John Novak’s 2015 RMAF presentation


----------



## Zenvota

barbz127 said:


> Thankyou
> That is what I thought, I had only read people praising this device until someone shared this... Now on the fence.
> 
> Would you mind linking to that reccomendation?


Those measurements are torture tests and meaningless for what you actually hear, all they actually show is a lack of feedback in the circuits, which is a good thing, because what the measurements dont show is distorted transients and delay from feedback, how could they?  They frame the measurements as being negative because they have a bias, and if you have knowledge on the subject and you read their reviews red flags pop up everywhere.  Avoid that site.

What you're actually getting with the r2r11 is resistor ladder digital to analog conversion, technically more precise than sigma chips, non feedback current signal amplifiers, ultra short uncolored signal paths, no delay or distorted transients from feedback, and discrete and double stage regulation, the analog amplifiers are able to render all the data, which well measuring gear often cant do due to feedback, multiple gain stages, inferior power supplies, etc.  At a very affordable price, i.e. not $3,000 to 30,000 for msb dcs or ...heh... comparable equipment ;]


----------



## FredA

Zenvota said:


> Those measurements are torture tests and meaningless for what you actually hear, all they actually show is a lack of feedback in the circuits, which is a good thing, because what the measurements dont show is distorted transients and delay from feedback, how could they?  They frame the measurements as being negative because they have a bias, and if you have knowledge on the subject and you read their reviews red flags pop up everywhere.  Avoid that site.
> 
> What you're actually getting with the r2r11 is resistor ladder digital to analog conversion, technically more precise than sigma chips, non feedback current signal amplifiers, ultra short uncolored signal paths, no delay or distorted transients from feedback, and discrete and double stage regulation, the analog amplifiers are able to render all the data, which well measuring gear often cant do due to feedback, multiple gain stages, inferior power supplies, etc.  At a very affordable price, i.e. not $3,000 to 30,000 for msb dcs or ...heh... comparable equipment ;]


Well said. The r2r-11 is really one of a kind at that price point and is really a joy to listen to.


----------



## Oberoni

sennsay said:


> Well, I'm very happy to have been of some service  I sold my HD6xx because they couldn't compete with my 30 year old HD540 Ref1s (with 'wang' pleather pads and Mogami cable), the second time I've sold on the HD650s in favour of my most favourite headphones in 45 years of hifi buffery  I did actually improve my HE400S by buying a pair of the Focus A pads, which as their name suggests improved focus and bass depth and then made my own Mogami cable for them, as I have done for all of my headphones. You may be just as happy with the stock HE400S and R2R-11 as is, you're certainly enjoying them. Kingwa is definitely correct in that the R2R-11 just seems to get better when it's had a lot of hours on it and is well warmed up.



I had a gift certificate, and I ended up getting those Focus A pads, and now I have a surprisingly simple question I can't find the answer to - which way do I position the thick end of the pads? Up, down, or facing forward or behind my ears?


----------



## PopZeus (Aug 3, 2019)

barbz127 said:


> Thankyou
> That is what I thought, I had only read people praising this device until someone shared this... Now on the fence.
> 
> Would you mind linking to that reccomendation?



Omg I totally spaced on this reply. I meant to come back and respond, I swear!  Well, it’s a month late, but here’s the link to the thread...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/combined-amp-dac-dark-and-warm-sounding.909917/

I think the first mention of the R2R 11 starts at post #5. It’s not a long discussion because of all the agreement. Lol.


----------



## JoeDoe (Aug 3, 2019)

Oberoni said:


> I had a gift certificate, and I ended up getting those Focus A pads, and now I have a surprisingly simple question I can't find the answer to - which way do I position the thick end of the pads? Up, down, or facing forward or behind my ears?



 The thinnest part should be in front of your ear, with the thickest and back. The idea is that it slightly angles the drivers into the cup of your ear.


----------



## JKDJedi

Oberoni said:


> I had a gift certificate, and I ended up getting those Focus A pads, and now I have a surprisingly simple question I can't find the answer to - which way do I position the thick end of the pads? Up, down, or facing forward or behind my ears?


Back, seam facing down. This focuses drivers directly into ear canal, thick pad to the back.


----------



## Oberoni

Thanks, all!


----------



## sennsay

Oberoni said:


> I had a gift certificate, and I ended up getting those Focus A pads, and now I have a surprisingly simple question I can't find the answer to - which way do I position the thick end of the pads? Up, down, or facing forward or behind my ears?


The thick side goes to the back, behind the ears. They angle to drivers slightly forward, supposedly for better depth perception. Not sure that it's totally effective, but some effect for sure. They're also much more comfortable pads to my ears than the stock ones and definitely superior sound.


----------



## Junkwisch

Hey guys

I have been using the nfb 11.38 for over 2 months now. I have a problem with the blue usb cable that came with the package. Any small touch to the cable will result in the nfb 11.38 losing connection with my laptop. 

So I have been thinking of getting a new USB cable that hopefully can solve this problem (and improve my sound quality). I have a budget around 50 usd.

You guys have any recommendation?


----------



## MarkArtz

Junkwisch said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I have been using the nfb 11.38 for over 2 months now. I have a problem with the blue usb cable that came with the package. Any small touch to the cable will result in the nfb 11.38 losing connection with my laptop.
> 
> ...


AUDIOQUEST PEARL is the one i use with my R2R-11. No complains and better than the blue cable that it came with.
https://www.amazon.com/AUDIOQUEST-P...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## Zenvota

Junkwisch said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I have been using the nfb 11.38 for over 2 months now. I have a problem with the blue usb cable that came with the package. Any small touch to the cable will result in the nfb 11.38 losing connection with my laptop.
> 
> ...



https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/wire/cable/supra-high-speed-usb-2.0-a-b/

https://www.ghentaudio.com/usb/usb-jssg360.html


----------



## sennsay

Junkwisch said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I have been using the nfb 11.38 for over 2 months now. I have a problem with the blue usb cable that came with the package. Any small touch to the cable will result in the nfb 11.38 losing connection with my laptop.
> 
> ...


I have been using a Kimber USB cable for years, far better than the Blue cable! Was rated as equal with the excellent Chord Silver+ in Hifi News mag a few years back, with tested better all round than some far more expensive options.


----------



## Junkwisch

Thank you guys

Audioquest is very accessible in my area, one of the only i can get from my local shop. However,  can anyone enlighten me with the difference between pearl, forest and cinnamon (all three are in the budget)? (P.S. I could make an exception for carbon if it really worth updrading to).

Another question, it is usb A to usb B right?


----------



## Junkwisch

Ended up with audioquest cinnamon. It fixed the connection problem. Cheees guys


----------



## barbz127

Could anyone comment on the pairing of either of these units with Alessandro or grado headphones?
I have a set of alessandro ms2.
Thankyou


----------



## ProLoL

Selling a custom i2s version of R2R11 if anyone's interested,

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-r2r11-2019-230v-custom-i2s-version.920390/


----------



## 439598

why are you selling?


----------



## ProLoL

Hey, as I've written in the post, I don't have time to listen to it as I'm on the go all the time and therefore I completely move into a portal setup.
I used my Gustard U16 + 10m clock as the transporter for the R2R11 via I2s, best PRAT and performance overall I could extract from it. The regular R2R11 with the Amanero sounded dull in comparison.
If I could get this sound into a portal device I would.


----------



## 439598

what do you plan to do with U16?


----------



## ProLoL (Dec 29, 2019)

I've sold it and shipped it today, would be nice if I could sell these as bundle.

Just to be clear, the U16 via other inputs such as coax or toslink sounded good but not great cause the signal goes through the R2R11's spdif receiver chip and it eventually determines the sound so no matter what transporter you got, U16 or the newest AGD transporter, the change will be subtle.
To take full effect of your transporter, you got to connect it to your dac via I2S to bypass the receiver chip and pass the signal straight to the dac. 

That's why I asked Kingwa to make this custom made version for me and the results are significant.


----------



## 439598 (Dec 29, 2019)

I was considering it for the I2S input but think there is a better DIY alternative I could do.
I seen there is DIY DA-8 R2R modules for around $100 (the one used in R2R11) available from AGD now and these take an I2S input, any I2S source could be used but it would need soldered together, add a power supply, enclosure etc..... I might be biting more than I can chew attempting this project but at worst it will be $100 wasted, at best it will be really fun learning experience with custom, low cost R2R11 DAC board to show for it


----------



## ProLoL

Sounds like a fun project. Using the same modules or chipset won't bring the same sound, the implementation is the key, also the power supply and analogue section.


----------



## 439598

The module itself is the DAC implementation in a way. You connect power, I2S goes in and the audio signal comes out (or at least I pray it will).
 Unless you have a headphone amp with very little gain there is no need for any extra analogue stages after the modules, and this preferable for minimum distortion and the simplest signal path.
Power will really be the main determining factor of sound quality, For this I plan to use LiFePo4 battery cells which beat any linear regulators I have used as DAC power supply hands down , even the ultra low noise LT3045 regulator. 

I doubt very much it will sound like the DAC output on standard R2R11, I hope it will be a lot better sounding.
What is worrying/surprising is sheer lack of any information/experiences on these modules outside of the audioGD page


----------



## CJG888

How do I convert the USB input to I2S? Is there a kit (as there is for some other Audio-gd DACs)?


----------



## ProLoL

CJG888 said:


> How do I convert the USB input to I2S? Is there a kit (as there is for some other Audio-gd DACs)?



Your Amanero interface already converts usb to i2s though you're stuck with Amanero.


----------



## CJG888

Sorry, I meant how do I modify the USB input to accept an I2S signal...

Is there a kit available to remove the Amanero input, as there is, say, for the NFB-1?


----------



## ProLoL (Dec 31, 2019)

Yup, there you go,

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/diy/I2Skits/I2SEN.htm

A small warning, if you purchase this and try to modify, the current usb socket in the device isn't sufficient in size for the hdmi.


----------



## CJG888

Thanks.


----------



## Junkwisch

Hey guys

I recently bought a pair of active speaker as well as a pangea ac 14se mk2 power cable. The difference is night and day. A very noticeable improvement. 

So apparently the cable has iec plug version as well (the one use with nfb 11.38???) And the website says the cable is design for source component. I have been thinking of grabbing it for my nfb11.38.

Anyone here try chaning the power cable? If so what is your experience? What improvement does it gives?


----------



## Zenvota

Junkwisch said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I recently bought a pair of active speaker as well as a pangea ac 14se mk2 power cable. The difference is night and day. A very noticeable improvement.
> 
> ...


Yup, low inductance power cables improve digital components.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-nfb-11-28-vs-r2r-11.858093/page-147#post-15016457


----------



## Junkwisch

Zenvota said:


> Yup, low inductance power cables improve digital components.
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-nfb-11-28-vs-r2r-11.858093/page-147#post-15016457




Cheers, this is going to be fun.


----------



## motberg

Junkwisch said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I recently bought a pair of active speaker as well as a pangea ac 14se mk2 power cable. The difference is night and day. A very noticeable improvement.
> 
> ...




Hi - are you using the Pangea ac 14se mk2 power cable with 220V mains power?


----------



## Junkwisch

motberg said:


> Hi - are you using the Pangea ac 14se mk2 power cable with 220V mains power?




Yes, it is 220V in my country.


----------



## Preachy1

Greetings folks.  i'm a relatively new A-GD owner (about 2 months).  I've recently started experiencing frequent Windows (10) crashes.  I posted my issue to the Microsoft community, and after reviewing my .dmp files, they are suggesting that the crashes may be being caused by the A-GD driver (pic below).  Any history of this on this thread?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!


----------



## Zenvota

Preachy1 said:


> Greetings folks.  i'm a relatively new A-GD owner (about 2 months).  I've recently started experiencing frequent Windows (10) crashes.  I posted my issue to the Microsoft community, and after reviewing my .dmp files, they are suggesting that the crashes may be being caused by the A-GD driver (pic below).  Any history of this on this thread?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!


The unit actually has the older via usb board? not the amanero board?  The via drivers dont work, if it does have that than get a usb to optical/coaxial device and send the audio gd unit optical/coaxial.  If it has the amanero board then just that driver


----------



## Preachy1

Zenvota said:


> The unit actually has the older via usb board? not the amanero board?  The via drivers dont work, if it does have that than get a usb to optical/coaxial device and send the audio gd unit optical/coaxial.  If it has the amanero board then just that driver


Thanks for the quick response.  I'm already using both the optical output input for my CD player, but the Coax input is free.  Is the type of device you're referring to?

https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Coaxial-Converter-Convert-Analogue/dp/B00FEDHHKE


----------



## J Mirra

Let us know what model you are referring too, as you may just need to download the amanero driver from Audio-gd's site.


----------



## Preachy1

NFB 11, but that's all I know.  The seller didn't provide any further specifics.  I can reach out to him for more info if that would help.


----------



## Zenvota

Preachy1 said:


> Thanks for the quick response.  I'm already using both the optical output input for my CD player, but the Coax input is free.  Is the type of device you're referring to?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Coaxial-Converter-Convert-Analogue/dp/B00FEDHHKE


Yup that would be thr starting point, and then there are units with a better usb board(xmos or amanero) and upgraded power supplies.



Preachy1 said:


> NFB 11, but that's all I know.  The seller didn't provide any further specifics.  I can reach out to him for more info if that would help.



If the seller doesnt know, there should be a serial number on the back you can contact audiogd with.  or unplug the unit, remove the top cover, take a picture, upload it here and we can tell you which board it is


----------



## Preachy1

Zenvota said:


> Yup that would be thr starting point, and then there are units with a better usb board(xmos or amanero) and upgraded power supplies.
> 
> 
> 
> If the seller doesnt know, there should be a serial number on the back you can contact audiogd with.  or unplug the unit, remove the top cover, take a picture, upload it here and we can tell you which board it is


Thanks again.  1st, I sent an inquiry to the original owner.  If he doesn't respond in a day or so, I'll send the serial number off to A-GD.

In the meantime, I went forth and downloaded the Amanero driver, and installed it, but using Foobar, it doesn't recognize the device (so that might be my answer right there!!!)

the help here has been most welcome!!!


----------



## Preachy1 (Feb 28, 2020)

Well here is my interim solution. I added the TA-10 to the chain as a USB>COAX converter (which I didn't know it could do until just now).  A little overkill, but it beats a) the frequent computer crashes, and b) buying a new component.


----------



## mark375

Hi,

I've just got my Audio gd R2R-11. I want to use it as a standalone DAC only. I use fixed switch setting on front panel but the volume potentiometer is still working so it is like in the variable mode now. I should change the jumper position to the right as official site is saying:

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R2R11/R2R11EN_Use.htm

BUT I have a trouble with pulling out the jumper as it is glued very tight and I want to avoid braking anything. Is this fixed mode only setting fixed volume setting or it affects circuit somehow to use it only as a DAC? Because if I cannot change this jumper I would leave it as it is now. Am I losing DAC sound quality working like that?

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## 439598

mark375 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just got my Audio gd R2R-11. I want to use it as a standalone DAC only. I use fixed switch setting on front panel but the volume potentiometer is still working so it is like in the variable mode now. I should change the jumper position to the right as official site is saying:
> 
> ...


it is likely bypassing the potentiometer, when you set the potentiometer to max position this is effectively bypassing it.


----------



## Pharmaboy

mark375 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just got my Audio gd R2R-11. I want to use it as a standalone DAC only. I use fixed switch setting on front panel but the volume potentiometer is still working so it is like in the variable mode now. I should change the jumper position to the right as official site is saying:
> 
> ...



I'll be interested in your comments about the sound of the R2R-11, a DAC that interested me greatly awhile ago (I had 2 AGD DACs and like them a lot). 

Re the potentiometer--if this is the usual analog wiper/contact volume pot (vs digital), the best way to get it out of the way of the signal is to rotate all the way to the right. That's equivalent to repositioning the jumper, allowing the full voltage, non-attenuated signal to flow to the next device in the chain, presumably an amp or amp/preamp with its own volume control. I checked the webpage for this device by can't find a good description of the volume pot.

The webpage does reinforce (as I will, too) that if you pass a full voltage signal out of this DAC, you'd better have a volume pot on the next device in the chain, or stuff's gonna blow up.


----------



## elira

mark375 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just got my Audio gd R2R-11. I want to use it as a standalone DAC only. I use fixed switch setting on front panel but the volume potentiometer is still working so it is like in the variable mode now. I should change the jumper position to the right as official site is saying:
> 
> ...


You won’t lose sound quality, just be careful, do not turn it to max.


----------



## mark375 (Jun 29, 2020)

Are you sure guys that max volume is the same thing?

Specs from the site:

Headphone output : 10V RMS 
Variable output : 5V Max
Fixed output: 2.5V RMS (High gain)
Fixed output: 1V RMS (Low gain)


----------



## Zenvota

Juat keep lightly wiggling at the jumper itll come loose


----------



## JKDJedi

mark375 said:


> Are you sure guys that max volume is the same thing?
> 
> Specs from the site:
> 
> ...


Probably overthinking it, and no don't max volume it.


----------



## JKDJedi

Zenvota said:


> Juat keep lightly wiggling at the jumper itll come loose


Isn't there a switch in the front that can you can flip to use as dac only? I had the 11.28 couple years ago and do remember a jumper in there that was glued in.  Almost felt soldered in, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Your dac output won't be degraded by the volume pot. Can you take a pic of the jumper?


----------



## ProLoL (Jun 29, 2020)

Max volume on variable is definitely not the same as fixed hehe.. variable will always use it's headphone amp as a preamp with a max of 5v output if you turn it to max right position. I've had the same problem that the jumper was so sticky I had to carve the surrounding glue with a knife until I could pull it off with some force.

To those claim that the volume knob won't downgrade the signal are wrong. Using the variable with the volume knob you're stuck with mediocre sound quality but with a very good tone as it's tunned to be spot on on tonality.


----------



## mark375 (Jun 29, 2020)

ProLoL said:


> Max volume on variable is definitely not the same as fixed hehe.. variable will always use it's headphone amp as a preamp with a max of 5v output if you turn it to max right position. I've had the same problem that the jumper was so sticky I had to carve the surrounding glue with a knife until I could pull it off with some force.
> 
> To those claim that the volume knob won't downgrade the signal are wrong. Using the variable with the volume knob you're stuck with mediocre sound quality but with a very good tone as it's tunned to be spot on on tonality.




Can you hear the sound difference between variable and fixed mode at the same volume?

So after you carved the surrounding glue you just pulled it out in the up direction?


----------



## ProLoL

I had to use some force but eventually it came off.
Ofcourse you can tell it's difference. Fixed will only use the dac, variable will use the dac + headphone amp. The headphone amp sound adds flavor and tonality. Fixed is neutral.


----------



## JKDJedi

mark375 said:


> Can you hear the sound difference between variable and fixed mode at the same volume?
> 
> So after you carved the surrounding glue you just pulled it out in the up direction?


That's the only way you can take it off, pulling up


----------



## ProLoL (Jun 30, 2020)

Used the R2R11 dac via questyle cma600i preamp + headphone amp, reveals how dirty the R2R11 amp is aka using variable. Using R2R11 in all in one is crazy good, tone is where it's needs to be.

If the R2R11 had higher resolution, would easily be an endgame.


----------



## PopZeus

Yeah, I'd try to set the jumper properly on the R2R11 for fixed out.


----------



## mark375

I've just removed the surrounding glue with knife but it probably keeps the jumper at the base. I was pulling it quite strong and it still is not leaving the board. What a crappy solution on setting this jumper that way...


----------



## JKDJedi

mark375 said:


> I've just removed the surrounding glue with knife but it probably keeps the jumper at the base. I was pulling it quite strong and it still is not leaving the board. What a crappy solution on setting this jumper that way...


Maybe hit it with a blow dryer to melt whatever else is in there.


----------



## mark375

JKDJedi said:


> Maybe hit it with a blow dryer to melt whatever else is in there.



THIS! You saved my life. The dryer worked and there was a lot of glue inside. Now the volume is bypassed. Thanks !!!


----------



## JKDJedi

mark375 said:


> THIS! You saved my life. The dryer worked and there was a lot of glue inside. Now the volume is bypassed. Thanks !!!


Happy that worked out for you. 😁


----------



## Pharmaboy

mark375 said:


> Are you sure guys that max volume is the same thing?
> 
> Specs from the site:
> 
> ...



That .5V max output for variable output makes no sense at all. Maybe someone else can explain...


----------



## sennsay

Best to shift that jumper, Kingwa has mentioned before that it can sometimes need a good wiggle to shift it, although I had absolutely no problems with mine. DAC is a good one on it's own, I run it from my MacBook Pro with a Kimber USB cable, silver cables out to an Elekit valve pre-amp and amplifier to the Sansui SP-300 speakers, excellent sound quality. It's nice to be able to switch it to HP when I want to keep things quiet at night.


----------



## Nickol

mark375 said:


> BUT I have a trouble with pulling out the jumper as it is glued very tight and I want to avoid braking anything.


The jumper can be filled with a little glue. I pulled this jumper with pliers, while swaying a little. It's hard, but you can pull it out.


----------



## sajunky (Jul 3, 2020)

The previous owner attempted to remove jumper and eventually gave up. It is how it was before:

I managed to separate pins by cutting in the middle using side cutters and remove individual pins, then cleaning pins with a knife from residue glue was required. Spare jumbers were included, fortunately.

The idea of using a blow dryer is excellent, but remember about removing glue from the pins and don't use the same jumper. You won't be able to remove glue from a jumper.


----------



## sajunky

ProLoL said:


> I had to use some force but eventually it came off.
> Ofcourse you can tell it's difference. Fixed will only use the dac, variable will use the dac + headphone amp. The headphone amp sound adds flavor and tonality. Fixed is neutral.


When I put a volume at 12 o'clock, there is no difference in volume between fixed and variable mode. Also a sound is identical. Absolutely no difference (in both high and low switch position). It gives an optimal sound in my book.

However if you turn a pot to the max, then what you say is true.


----------



## capetownwatches (Jul 4, 2020)

sajunky said:


> The previous owner attempted to remove jumper and eventually gave up. It is how it was before:
> 
> I managed to separate pins by cutting in the middle using side cutters and remove individual pins, then cleaning pins with a knife from residue glue was required. Spare jumbers were included, fortunately.
> 
> The idea of using a blow dryer is excellent, but remember about removing glue from the pins and don't use the same jumper. You won't be able to remove glue from a jumper.


What is it with Kingwa and his obsession with applying liberal amounts of glue to everything..?
My NFB11.32 remains sealed - as in unopened. Thankfully never needed to.


----------



## 439598

sajunky said:


> When I put a volume at 12 o'clock, there is no difference in volume between fixed and variable mode. Also a sound is identical. Absolutely no difference (in both high and low switch position). It gives an optimal sound in my book.
> 
> However if you turn a pot to the max, then what you say is true.


So the jumper must be routing it through a fixed voltage divider instead of the pot in that case?
Also I wonder how they manage to reroute a stereo signal with a single jumper


----------



## ProLoL

sajunky said:


> When I put a volume at 12 o'clock, there is no difference in volume between fixed and variable mode. Also a sound is identical. Absolutely no difference (in both high and low switch position). It gives an optimal sound in my book.
> 
> However if you turn a pot to the max, then what you say is true.



For me it's easy to distinguish using fixed vs using variable. Don't you notice the addition of the amp's sound / flavor?


----------



## sajunky (Jul 4, 2020)

capetownwatches said:


> What is it with Kingwa and his obsession with applying liberal amounts of glue to everything..?


Kingwa is an icon, as his only obsession is to deliver the best sound possible and he does. The best sound is in the middle of a pot, it should give you a thought. This is unconventional, as everybody expected to be at the max, but it is well thought and quite practical. Isn't?

As for a glue, it is a typical glue applied to the connectors (as seen on the left and right of the jumper). A glue prevents plugs from getting a lose from vibrations. As for a jumper, the only reason I can imagine is that this feature was supposed to be undocumented and Kingwa has changed a mind after interraction with first users.

You should perhaps notice that jumper in my device had been glued not in a current default 'variable', but a 'fixed' position, it gives a full-feature. The first batch was probably shipped in this (glued) position.

I am really dissappointed from your attack, so I will tell a real story. Your friend from the South African forum who sold me this device didn't tell me about having problem with removing the jumper. Initially a DAC didn't sound good, so I did exchange PM and received response that there was absolutely no problems. My thread count was increased immediately in order to keep me happy, so I knew that returning goods would be difficult. I looked inside and found this botchered jumper. It became clear that after a failed attempt of removing the jumper there is no longer good contact and I have to fix these things.

After replacing jumper a DAC started to sound nice. So please do not attack Kingwa when you know your friend did something wrong. I have a very bad word to describe such behaviour.


----------



## sajunky (Jul 4, 2020)

Acke said:


> So the jumper must be routing it through a fixed voltage divider instead of the pot in that case?
> Also I wonder how they manage to reroute a stereo signal with a single jumper


Yes, but I didn't investigate how it is done.


ProLoL said:


> For me it's easy to distinguish using fixed vs using variable. Don't you notice the addition of the amp's sound / flavor?


My amp is entry level, speakers 15 years old and abused, my ears are much much much older, so you can be right. If there is a difference at 12 o'clock  it is small, I guess...


----------



## capetownwatches (Jul 5, 2020)

sajunky said:


> Kingwa is an icon, as his only obsession is to deliver the best sound possible and he does. The best sound is in the middle of a pot, it should give you a thought. This is unconventional, as everybody expected to be at the max, but it is well thought and quite practical. Isn't?
> 
> As for a glue, it is a typical glue applied to the connectors (as seen on the left and right of the jumper). A glue prevents plugs from getting a lose from vibrations. As for a jumper, the only reason I can imagine is that this feature was supposed to be undocumented and Kingwa has changed a mind after interraction with first users.
> 
> ...


I realise that you've been given a hard time on other forums due to the utter obtuseness of many of your posts, therefore you are obviously very sensitive.
My comment was merely a statement of fact.
I love Kingwa and what he's done for the hobby by making quality gear at affordable prices. Heck, I own one of his amp/DACs myself.

However, you cross the line by insinuating that I somehow had any knowledge that the R2R11 you purchased off a local forum had a latent defect.
And the person you bought it off is not my friend, we don't even live in the same province and I've never met him.

How you got from my glue comment to making snide and baseless accusations is the very reason your presence is irritating at best, and often downright aggravating. I too have a very bad word to describe such behaviour.


----------



## JKDJedi




----------



## sennsay

Has anyone actually thought of asking Kingwa for an idea of how to remove the glue, as in Acetone or something similar? To use this DAC at it's rather good best, you really need to be able to use ALL of the three settings; Fixed, Variable and HP. Unless you are going to use the DAC/pre into powered speakers or a power amplifier, then best signal quality comes from using the DAC with it's Fixed setting to avoid any further contacts in the signal path, my experience tells me it always makes a difference to my ears and systems. 
Each to their own, of course, but it's worth trying a heat gun on lowish heat or some Acetone to get rid of that glue and be able to use the DAC/pre/amp properly.


----------



## ProLoL

Second R2R11 that I've ordered, I asked Kingwa to put the jumper so that fixed is fixed and variable is variable. If you purchase a brand new unit, just ask him to do it.
Previous R2R11, I used pliers, few occasions I gave up trying but eventually it came off, have patience.


----------



## sajunky

sennsay said:


> Each to their own, of course, but it's worth trying a heat gun on lowish heat or some Acetone to get rid of that glue and be able to use the DAC/pre/amp properly.


Be careful with heat gun. Plastic forming the frame of the socket is melting at low temperatures, it will also damage surrounding sockets. Never use chemical solvents like acetone on electronic pcboards. Heating up is a very good idea, it will make glue softer, easier to brake, you still need to use force. It was soft when new, it is just hardening over the time. Just remember, the old jumper is not good anymore (discard it) and remove residue of glue from the pins (all sides) with a flat screwdriver or workshop knife with a worn blade. A worn blade is required preserve conductive coating material on pins. A sharp knife will scratch/cut it easily.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Jimster480 said:


> As far as the NFB series.... hes selling something as Balanced which is not balanced. Dual Mono IS balanced. Everyone else selling a Balanced product is selling it with 2 DAC chips running in Mono mode for a balanced output.



Is that really true? RME and Mytek balanced DACs have one AK or ESS chip as far as I know.


----------



## 439598

gimmeheadroom said:


> Is that really true? RME and Mytek balanced DACs have one AK or ESS chip as far as I know.


No, not at all, that guy has no idea what he is talking about.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Acke said:


> No, not at all, that guy has no idea what he is talking about.



Thanks. I'm starting to see that all the posts were based on not even hearing the DAC.

I want an R2R DAC and was considering the Soekris 1421 but I didn't get a response from them after about a week and can't find a place to buy it from. So I found this thread and this looks like a good DAC for the money. Still reading.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

James35 said:


> I wonder what Audio-GD was thinking with the fixed mode. What purpose does it serve?



That's the correct mode to have when you use an external amplifier. Variable output should be discontinued. Bad!


----------



## 439598 (Aug 30, 2020)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks. I'm starting to see that all the posts were based on not even hearing the DAC.
> 
> I want an R2R DAC and was considering the Soekris 1421 but I didn't get a response from them after about a week and can't find a place to buy it from. So I found this thread and this looks like a good DAC for the money. Still reading.


The DIY dam1121 is still probably the best DAC I've ever heard, there was some slight colouration/harshness compared to better measuring DACs but it's the perfect example of measurements not telling the full story as it resolves insanely well and naturally, particularly with dynamics, bass and timbre. R2R11 otoh had heavy colouration impossible to ignore and poor resolution.
But the 1421 is over 3 times the price and my 1121 had fancy power supplies etc. that I dont think it's fair to compare with 1421 even


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Acke said:


> The DIY dam1121 is still probably the best DAC I've ever heard, there was some slight colouration/harshness compared to better measuring DACs but it's the perfect example of measurements not telling the full story as it resolves insanely well and naturally, particularly with dynamics, bass and timbre. R2R11 otoh had heavy colouration impossible to ignore and poor resolution.
> But the 1421 is over 3 times the price and my 1121 had fancy power supplies etc. that I dont think it's fair to compare with 1421 even



Thanks for this info. I decided to order the R2R-11 today since I didn't get a response from Soekris and it's difficult for me to shell out that amount of money right now.

I'm with you 100% on measurements not correlating to enjoyment or sound quality. I hope the audio-gd will be good enough and I'll run it into a good headamp which should help.

When I get back home maybe I'll try again to see about buying the 1421.


----------



## sajunky (Aug 30, 2020)

Acke said:


> R2R11 otoh had heavy colouration impossible to ignore and poor resolution.


R2R11 can sound weird, I would express it in much worse term. Device is very sensitive to the ground loops and our laptops/PC are being a main source. If you notice a poor resolution, try optical input (Coax also helps). If sound is improving, then you know, you need USB plug with galvanic isolation. In my case reversing Euro (2 pin) power plug of the laptop PSU removed a weird sound.

As for comparison with Soekris, it shouldn't be a big difference. If it is, then I would look for ground loops solution in first place. The other possibility is that your amp poorly handle ultrasonic noise generated by a ladder. A-GD DACs use low voltage, high speed switching curcuits. It give the most accurate discrete output values, but produce a lot of HF spikes. HF spikes will go away, but require quality amplification. The same concept is implemented in Denafrips DACs, but here a high impedance output helps filtering spikes on the cable.

Soekris's DACs are different in this respect. He prefer a high voltage, slower switching circuits. A period of time when ladder is changing discrete values is increased (giving less accurate discrete output levels), but it produce less high frequency noise. Wether it is better, it is disputable, Soekris claims on a DIY forum that it is better. In my opinion a total amount of noise seem the same, but energy density is shifted towards a lower frequency, so it is even more difficult to filter out.

With respect to the above, Soekris DACs should sound more similar to the traditional chip ladder dacs, while both A-GD and Denafrips can deliver better conversion accuracy.


----------



## 439598

sajunky said:


> R2R11 can sound weird, I would express it in much worse term. Device is very sensitive to the ground loops and our laptops/PC are being a main source. If you notice a poor resolution, try optical input (Coax also helps). If sound is improving, then you know, you need USB plug with galvanic isolation. In my case reversing Euro (2 pin) power plug of the laptop PSU removed a weird sound.
> 
> As for comparison with Soekris, it shouldn't be a big difference. If it is, then I would look for ground loops solution in first place. The other possibility is that your amp poorly handle ultrasonic noise generated by a ladder. A-GD DACs use low voltage, high speed switching curcuits. It give the most accurate discrete output values, but produce a lot of HF spikes. HF spikes will go away, but require quality amplification. The same concept is implemented in Denafrips DACs, but here a high impedance output helps filtering spikes on the cable.
> 
> ...


It shouldnt be a big difference... or just maybe what you hear isnt the same as me?
From you earlier in thread ''My amp is entry level, speakers 15 years old and abused, my ears are much much much older, so you can be right. If there is a difference at 12 o'clock it is small, I guess... ''

They are no ground loops, I'm fully aware of the importance of the digital source for SQ. There are many possible reasons it sounds ''weird'' though... barely resolving 10 bits, 10 times greater THD+N than soekris, high amounts of IMD, issues in the digital end causing jitter/glitches on output.


----------



## sajunky (Aug 30, 2020)

.LOL. for not quoted part. 


Acke said:


> They are no ground loops, I'm fully aware of the importance of the digital source for SQ. There are many possible reasons it sounds ''weird'' though... barely resolving 10 bits, 10 times greater THD+N than soekris, high amounts of IMD, issues in the digital end causing jitter/glitches on output.


You may think that your awareness of ground loops is adequate, I wouldn't be so sure, as you are refering to the measurements that were affected mainly by ground loops, similar to what happened in a TotalDAC Six tests. Refer to my earlier post about ground loops during R2R11 tests here and also on the ASR forum - TotalDAC tests.

You are also seems to be completely ignorant of the fact that with a presence of high frequency noise our measuring equipment do not bring any meanful results.


----------



## 439598 (Aug 30, 2020)

sajunky said:


> .LOL. for not quoted part.
> 
> You may think that your awareness of ground loops is adequate, I wouldn't be so sure, as you are refering to the measurements that were affected mainly by ground loops, similar to what happened in a TotalDAC Six tests. Refer to my earlier post about ground loops during R2R11 tests here and also on the ASR forum - TotalDAC tests.
> 
> You are also seems to be completely ignorant of the fact that with a presence of high frequency noise our measuring equipment do not bring any meanful results.


There was one earthed power cable from wall, and it was connected to PC with either optical or isolated usb input (using HifimeDIY USB isolator) driving headphones directly... where is the loop exactly? You mean internal PCB/wiring ground loops in the R2R11? that would make sense.

Those measurements on ASR are one piece of evidence, they dont prove anything, they could be accurate or there could be inaccuracies.
You have no proof to say they are inaccurate, and you have not presented any evidence?


----------



## motberg

gimmeheadroom said:


> Thanks for this info. I decided to order the R2R-11 today since I didn't get a response from Soekris and it's difficult for me to shell out that amount of money right now.
> 
> I'm with you 100% on measurements not correlating to enjoyment or sound quality. I hope the audio-gd will be good enough and I'll run it into a good headamp which should help.
> 
> When I get back home maybe I'll try again to see about buying the 1421.


I am using an R2R-11 as a straight DAC also, but mine has an i2s input and using a SU-1 as a USB/i2s DDC.
Unfortunately I do not have any DIY skills, however I recently had in the same amp/speaker system a Topping D50, D70 and Gustard A20H - all of which supposedly measures better... Although each one of these 3 had some type of admirable characteristics, I prefer the R2R-11's more balanced, natural and dynamic presentation for my music preferences (prog rock, rock, some classical). The R2R-11 to me offers a less-processed sound signature compared to the others in this group of DAC's.


----------



## sajunky (Aug 30, 2020)

Acke said:


> There was one earthed power cable from wall, and it was connected to PC with either optical or isolated usb input (using HifimeDIY USB isolator) driving headphones directly... where is the loop exactly? You mean internal PCB/wiring ground loops in the R2R11? that would make sense.


It doesn't prove a case, USB isolator can be malfunctioning. You didn't try on optical (or Coax) port with all other ports disconnected. This is what I recommend to do in first place.


Acke said:


> Those measurements on ASR are one piece of evidence, they dont prove anything, they could be accurate or there could be inaccuracies.
> You have no proof to say they are inaccurate, and you have not presented any evidence?


Measurements with a presence of ultrasonic noise are inaccurate, as the same happens when testing any other NOS R2R DAC which has a slow roll-off (first order) LP filter.

As for a proof that R2R11 measurements on ASR are botchered, Amir gives this evidence:
Unstable DUT

Any reputable rewiever would immediately stop measuring, request manufacturer's comment or a replacement. Or at least start checking up his own equipment. It didn't happen.


> Does NOT happen with S/PDIF.


----------



## 439598

*@sajunky 
It doesn't prove a case, USB isolator can be malfunctioning. You didn't try on optical (or Coax) port with all other ports disconnected. This is what I recommend to do in first place.*
I did. Again, there were no ground loops causing the bad sound

*Measurements with a presence of ultrasonic noise are inaccurate, as the same happens when testing any other R2R DAC which has a slow roll-off (first order) LP filter.*
So, as one example, how can the Holo Audio KTE May measure so exceptionally in NOS mode? (cant link it here)

*As for a proof that R2R11 measurements on ASR are botchered, Amir gives this evidence:*
*Unstable DUT*
I dont know what this is , you'll need to explain.


----------



## sajunky

Acke said:


> *Unstable DUT*
> I dont know what this is , you'll need to explain.


DUT = Device Under Tests.


----------



## sajunky

Acke said:


> So, as one example, how can the Holo Audio KTE May measure so exceptionally in NOS mode? (cant link it here)


How you can be so sure that May is running in a pure NOS mode? I mean, no DSP pre-processing, signal decimation, noise shaping?


----------



## 439598 (Aug 30, 2020)

sajunky said:


> DUT = Device Under Tests.


I meant explain how that is proof its problem with measurement equipment and not the DAC itself.

It has perfect square wave response, thats why I think it's NOS.
I dont know how noise shaping would interefere with the fact that it's NOS or OS,
but if it was being used wouldn't that only add more ultrasonic noise?

If you mean the data could be oversampled and then decimated (not sure why they would do this) how would this change the amount of ultrasonic noise on the output? it would still behave like 44.1kHz NOS data to the DAC, only it is a resampled version of the original file, right?


----------



## sajunky

Acke said:


> I meant explain how that is proof its problem with measurement equipment and not the DAC itself.


Did I mention a TotalDAC test on ASR, didn't I? I thought you would pick it up. There is a proof of ground loops in Amir's measuring gear in other tests. The one I objected on the ASR forum was a TotalDAC test. A proof is a presence of both 50Hz and 60Hz traces on a dashboard. Only one frequency trace can be attributed to the DUT. Partially, as you need to remember that the amplitude depends on both devices forming a loop. The other one is a ground loop generated internally between Amir's gear (no DUT involved).


Acke said:


> It has perfect square wave response, thats why I think it's NOS.
> I dont know how noise shaping would interefere with the fact that it's NOS or OS,
> but if it was being used wouldn't that only add more ultrasonic noise?
> 
> If you mean the data could be oversampled and then decimated (not sure why they would do this) how would this change the amount of ultrasonic noise on the output? it would still behave like 44.1kHz NOS data to the DAC, only it is a resampled version of the original file, right?


Good question. You are correct that pulse response will reveal a brick wall digital filtering, but noise shaping and other processing tricks may not. These are trade secrets and we are talking about DAC which is 10 times more expensive than R2R11.

A clue to this matter may be included in the test signals submitted by the ASR member without giving any explanation how to interprete results. This is a post with FFT plot of the Holo May: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...y-the-best-discrete-r2r-dac.10161/post-277493

44.1kHz plot has a number of distortion envelopes. The strongest one is at -80dB, the other one at  -95dB (visible only from 1kHz up) is a shadow of the same frequencies and the second generation product envelope is at -110dB. Can you comment on this, please?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

isoa4k said:


> Well i think i experience the same issues with DSD. I can hear  low level noise artifacts, like digital jitter on low level parts of some DSD songs. As i said i cannot play DSD256 and DSD512 because foobar throws me an error. If anyone could be so kind to lead me to a proper configuration. Is DSD256 and 512 supported in the R2R 11?



What do you have in DSD256 and above?

I have a few hundred SACD rips but those are all DSD64. I was not aware of anything aside from samples from at higher DSD rates. Ordered by R2R-11 today


----------



## 439598

sajunky said:


> Did I mention a TotalDAC test on ASR, didn't I? I thought you would pick it up. There is a proof of ground loops in Amir's measuring gear in other tests. The one I objected on the ASR forum was a TotalDAC test. A proof is a presence of both 50Hz and 60Hz traces on a dashboard. Only one frequency trace can be attributed to the DUT. Partially, as you need to remember that the amplitude depends on both devices forming a loop. The other one is a ground loop generated internally between Amir's gear (no DUT involved).
> 
> Good question. You are correct that pulse response will reveal a brick wall digital filtering, but noise shaping and other processing tricks may not. These are trade secrets and we are talking about DAC which is 10 times more expensive than R2R11.
> 
> ...


Ok, so what you trying to tell me is that the R2R11 actually measures decently but for some reason sounded really bad/distorted to me and is catastrophically affected by ground loops, more so than any other DACs, which caused it to measure terribly?

The Holo Audio measurements on ASR were made with OS, im talking about NOS measurements from another site (which stupidly cant be mentioned on headfi )
Holo Audio are advocates of NOS, I dont think there is any processing trickery going on.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gLer said:


> The bad news is that this is a general flaw in all the R2R-11 units that I’m personally aware of. It’s limited to DSD playback like you say, and mainly noticeable in quieter passages of classical and jazz music. In fact, most of my classical DSDs are now unplayable on the R2R-11, and so I’ve set Audirvana to convert DSD to PCM on the fly. Still sounds fantastic, but of course if you want native DSD, too bad.
> 
> Also as far as I know there’s no fix for it. They’ve supposedly fixed the pops, but I haven’t yet heard any feedback on whether or not the firmware update addresses the DSD issue. In my many discussions with Kingwa - via my local agent - he claims the noise is there because as a NOS dac, it doesn’t and won’t filter any low level noise artefacts - even though he couldn’t explain why these were limited to DSD playback.
> 
> ...



Well *crap.* I ordered the R2R-11 after reading about 60 pages of this thread and then I started seeing your comments about DSD not playing. I'm still reading and hoping this is resolved.


----------



## sajunky

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well *crap.* I ordered the R2R-11 after reading about 60 pages of this thread and then I started seeing your comments about DSD not playing. I'm still reading and hoping this is resolved.


Don't worry. A current version of R2R11 with DA-8 modules ver.2 is not affected by a weird DSD low level noise bug. A bug had been fixed earlier on the more expensive R1/R28 by firmware upgrade.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> Don't worry. A current version of R2R11 with DA-8 modules ver.2 is not affected by a weird DSD low level noise bug. A bug had been fixed earlier on the more expensive R1/R28 by firmware upgrade.



Thanks, I'll try it as soon as the unit arrives.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

gLer said:


> What does that mean practically? Has anyone actually heard the 9028 and 9038 and could describe the actual benefits, of any? For example, what differences would you pick up between the 28.28 and 28.38 (only because those have been out for ages and the 11.38 is new and untested).



Nothing at all to the human ear.

I have DACs with ESS 9018, 9028, and 9038 (all "Pro" versions). To my ear the most musical one is the 9018. I believe the PSU in that one is to blame for the incredible musicality. Otherwise it's just better measurements and maybe more filter options.


----------



## sajunky (Aug 30, 2020)

Acke said:


> Ok, so what you trying to tell me is that the R2R11 actually measures decently but for some reason sounded really bad/distorted to me and is catastrophically affected by ground loops, more so than any other DACs, which caused it to measure terribly?


Peaks every 25 seconds are indicative that a ladder is reseting itself. Isn't it indicative off a critical condition?

I see you don't comment on the 44.1kHz signal tests. These are hudge distortions, definitely audible at -80dB. So how a dashboard test can give -118dB SINR? It must be some tricks that normal tests fail to show.


----------



## 439598 (Aug 30, 2020)

sajunky said:


> Peaks every 25 seconds are indicative that a ladder is reseting itself every 25 second. Isn't it indicative off a critical condition?
> 
> I see you don't comment on the 44.1kHz signal tests. These are hudge distortions, definitely audible at -80dB. So how a dashboard test can give118dB SINR? It must be some tricks that normal tests fail to show.


Of course.
Who knows if this is typical behaviour of the USB input or just a problem with the testing methods.
There was also those issues with USB DSD playback everyone was having.
If it is a problem with the testing why was the R2R11 so severly affected compared to all the other DACs, except for a few of the other AGD DACs, even those measured on other forums (e.g look at R2R S19 measurements, also R2R11 measurement on reddit).
Can you really call this a problem with the measurements when it only effects these very specific DACs?
But sorry, I trust my ears and believe these measurements, even if they arent perfect, are close enough to reality and not a result of some severe testing error...

You did mention a newer version of R2R11, I definitely had the old version, who knows what other changes were made with the newer version that you own... could have fixed some issues.

what tests? It's not clear what you are asking, but im not interested in discussing in and outs of them.


----------



## sajunky

Acke said:


> Of course.
> Who knows if this is typical behaviour of the USB input or just a problem with the testing methods.


This is Amir who wrote:


> Does NOT happen with S/PDIF.


----------



## 439598

@sajunky do you have any recording equipment that you could use measure your own R2R11 correctly?
even a cheap ADC might be good enough to see if its really as bad as ASR claims.
That would be very interesting


sajunky said:


> This is Amir who wrote:


your point?


----------



## sajunky (Aug 30, 2020)

Acke said:


> your point?


A point is, Amir found that USB port was destabilizing device and S/PDIF did not, but he continued tests on a malfunctioning USB connection.

I had a problem with USB connection, but I managed to fix it by reversing EU plug on the laptop PSU and now I am enjoying music. I have the first model with DSD bug. It is the only problem early R2R11 has. However I found that transcoding on the fly DSD files to the PCM 176.4kHz works wery well. And sounds briliant on this DAC.

You also seem had a problem with USB connection, but failed to test other ports to establish a cause. You are at a fault. Stop this troll, please.


----------



## 439598

sajunky said:


> A point is, Amir found that USB port was destabilizing device and S/PDIF did not, but he continued tests on a malfunctioning USB connection.
> 
> I had a problem with USB connection, but I managed to fix it by reversing EU plug on the laptop PSU and now I am enjoying music. I have the first model with DSD bug. It is the only problem early R2R11 has. However I found that transcoding on the fly DSD files to the PCM 176.4kHz works wery well. And sounds briliant on this DAC.
> 
> You also seem had a problem with USB connection, but failed to test other ports to establish a cause. You are at a fault. Stop this troll, please.


yes im the troll here


----------



## MCCare

Anyone here using the NFB11.28 with the Beyer T1 gen 2?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

MCCare said:


> Anyone here using the NFB11.28 with the Beyer T1 gen 2?



More likely to get an answer in the T1 threads.


----------



## MCCare

gimmeheadroom said:


> More likely to get an answer in the T1 threads.


Yep i will, i also noticed your signature. It mention you have HD800 - i wish you post about it in here when you get your R2R and explain how it sounds / how it runs.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Aug 31, 2020)

MCCare said:


> Yep i will, i also noticed your signature. It mention you have HD800 - i wish you post about it in here when you get your R2R and explain how it sounds / how it runs.



I have apartments in two countries. I'm away from my main system because of the crisis. I only have a Chord Mojo here that's why I bought the audio-gd. My only headphones with me are a new pair of DT1770s but I plan to run them off my ATROX V2 amp. I don't plan to use the amp on the audio-gd. Most of the rest of my gear including my HD 800s is in CR. I won't have a chance to try them with the audio-gd.

I don't consider the 800s an all around pair of cans unless you listen to only big room music like orchestral or big band or need to analyze a recording. And they will be happier out of a tube OTL amp.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

My R2R-11 is on its way out of China


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Sep 6, 2020)

Just arrived. I can play anything through Foobar2000 ASIO, even DSD sounds ok so far without listening critically.

But I cannot get Tidal to play through it for some reason. It says I should set the Windows sound settings to 44.1/16 and there is no such setting screen available for the Amanero device. Do I need drivers other than Amanero combo USB drivers?

update: fixed after reinstalling the drivers several times, rebooting several times, and removing Chord drivers. It's Windows so of course I have no idea what the problem was or even what fixed it. When in doubt, just keep reinstalling and rebooting 

So now it plays everything. How grand 

By the way I asked Kingwa to set it for fixed output and he did. And I notice the gain switch works even in fixed output mode. I think I read upthread it does not, but I confirm it does.


----------



## sajunky

@ gimmeheadroom. Congratulaion!

No drivers are required for Win10 Creators and above.

For Tidal if you use Web browser I see there are WASAPI plugins. Chrome had undocumented switch, search indicate it is broken.

Fixed output is for RCA, not  headphones.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> @ gimmeheadroom. Congratulaion!
> 
> No drivers are required for Win10 Creators and above.
> 
> ...



Thanks @sajunky it is sorted, everything is working well. I use the Tidal app.

I had asked Kingwa to set the fixed output and he did. I hate variable outputs. But it's interesting that the gain switch works in all modes, headout, variable out, and fixed out.
The built in amp cannot drive my DT1770s well. I have some cables coming from UK and then I'll use my ATROX V2 which does a bang up job with them.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Coupla comments. This DAC is really super even regardless of price. I need to spend more time with the built-in headamp, I am now not so sure that it doesn't drive my DT1770s well. I'll try to remember to update the thread when I have more time to conclude. It feels to me that the bass presence is less than my Chord Mojo provided which I think is why I concluded the R2R-11's headamp was not getting the job done. Whether I listen to it via speakers or headphones, it feels a bit trebly.

I have been running the R2R-11 about 8 hours a day and I don't notice any improvement in break in. But I do not hear anything that needs improving aside from the tonal balance, which appears to be a bit light in the bass region at least compared to the Chord Mojo I was using befor the audio-gd arrived.

Does anybody have any comments about the character of the bass of the R2R-11 in your setup?


----------



## sajunky

Bass goes very deep with my HD600. As you say, the same type of sound is on the RCA output, I think problem is different. Try to isolate 5V pin on the source side of the USB plug, it should be an improvement. Do it sound better on S/PDIF inputs? If answer is yes, then ground loops are to be blamed. Is your laptop power plug reversible? During the testing, have only HP's or RCA outputs connected, not both. Then power off and on the DAC, it is required as it recalibrate during reset. If ground loops are gone, it should be immediate effect after restart and a full SQ after half an hour.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Sep 13, 2020)

sajunky said:


> Bass goes very deep with my HD600. As you say, the same type of sound is on the RCA output, I think problem is different. Try to isolate 5V pin on the source side of the USB plug, it should be an improvement. Do it sound better on S/PDIF inputs? If answer is yes, then ground loops are to be blamed. Is your laptop power plug reversible? During the testing, have only HP's or RCA outputs connected, not both. Then power off and on the DAC, it is required as it recalibrate during reset. If ground loops are gone, it should be immediate effect after restart and a full SQ after half an hour.



Thanks for your suggestions and comments 

I can try optical during the week but I have another theory. The Chord Mojo I was using before this is specced at 3V out in line-out mode which is what I used. The R2R-11 is specced at 2.5V on high gain. I changed to variable gain and used the volume knob and indeed bass improves. I suspect my new headamp is happier when driven hard. Given 2V is standard I'm a bit surprised at this behavior. The headamp has 4 gain positions, I was running on #2 with the Mojo and have been using it with the R2R-11. When I go to position 3 it starts to get better but it also feels on the edge of being overdriven. I guess I'll have some twiddling to do to get the levels sorted.

Anyway, the R2R-11's headamp seems to be doing quite well. I'm on the verge of not using the outboard headamp now. What a pity, I'll have to buy another DAC to drive it with


----------



## lazyturtle

Hey guys i have the r2r11 for around a year now, and I just experimented connecting my r2r11 and my desktop with an automatic voltage regulator. It sounds alot better imo.

Just sharing my experience in case someone else would like to try


----------



## Pharmaboy

lazyturtle said:


> Hey guys i have the r2r11 for around a year now, and I just experimented connecting my r2r11 and my desktop with an automatic voltage regulator. It sounds alot better imo.
> 
> Just sharing my experience in case someone else would like to try



Do you mean you connect your computer & R2R-11 to an AVR? 

If yes, 2 questions:

What are you using for DAC and headphone amp?
And what sonic improvements are you hearing?


----------



## sajunky

lazyturtle said:


> Just sharing my experience in case someone else would like to try


Yes, try everything. Even reversing the power plug of your laptop PSU can help like in my case. PC is the biggest source of ground loops and R2R11 has little protection (only more expensive models do).


----------



## lazyturtle

Pharmaboy said:


> Do you mean you connect your computer & R2R-11 to an AVR?
> 
> If yes, 2 questions:
> 
> ...


Yes I connected my computer and R2R-11 to the AVR. 

I'm using my R2R-11 as my DAC amp, and also using it as a pure dac with bravo audio ocean paired with a Beyerdynamics T70 in this case. I find much better instrument separation with the AVR. 

Before using the AVR I actually find that my T70 sounded alot muddier (albeit more musical) when I moved from khadas tone board to the R2R-11. And i now find the same clarity of the khadas tone board, just slightly warmer sound.


----------



## lazyturtle

Just curious, anyone here pairs the R2R11 with Schiit Asgard/Lyr?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

lazyturtle said:


> Just curious, anyone here pairs the R2R11 with Schiit Asgard/Lyr?



What are you trying to do?


----------



## lazyturtle

gimmeheadroom said:


> What are you trying to do?


I'm thinking of using the R2R-11 as a dac and pairing it with the Asgard.. But don't know if it's an upgrade worth considering.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

lazyturtle said:


> I'm thinking of using the R2R-11 as a dac and pairing it with the Asgard.. But don't know if it's an upgrade worth considering.



The Asgard doesn't have that much more power than the R2R-11 depending on the impedance. I would say it would depend on the headphones. On high gain the built in headamp is pretty good with 250 ohm Beyers but not perfect. The benefit of using an external amp is that the variable out is adjustable to a pretty high level of drive.


----------



## 439598

Mark 5 said:


> Anyone got any ideas on a possible upgrade from the R2R-11 maybe around $500 or so?  I know about the Denafrips models, and would love to have an Ares or Ares II.  And unfortunately (not for real, lol) I already own the Modi Multibit / Eitr and the Airist RDAC.  Seems like the Bifrost 2 is the next logical step, but I just can't afford $699 at the moment.


What is wrong with your current DACs?
Buying more midrange DACs is never gonna be much of an upgrade, unless you are just looking for a different sound signature 
You should sell your least favourite 2, save up and aim for something better to end the cycle.
The new soekris DAC is getting extremely positive feedback on Sb@F, with a good DAC like that you will feel satisfied, unlike those midrange toys.


----------



## ProLoL (Nov 12, 2020)

Mark 5 said:


> Anyone got any ideas on a possible upgrade from the R2R-11 maybe around $500 or so?  I know about the Denafrips models, and would love to have an Ares or Ares II.  And unfortunately (not for real, lol) I already own the Modi Multibit / Eitr and the Airist RDAC.  Seems like the Bifrost 2 is the next logical step, but I just can't afford $699 at the moment.



I have had the ares 2 and still got the r2r11, the ares2 is definitely lovely but once you own them both you'll realize that you can live happily with R2R11 aswell.
overall the ares2 is the better performing dac and has different qualities than the R2R11, they're both winners in my book.


----------



## ProLoL

accidental double post.


----------



## sajunky (Nov 12, 2020)

@Mark 5 .
If you think about Ares, it means you don't need a built-in headphone amplifier and R1 from Audio GD is your upgrade. Otherwise R28 a combo (consider it as R1 DAC plus NFB-1AMP). Unfortunately there is nothing between, but it has some high-end features like ACSS, a price is justified. All other DACs (as already suggested) I would sell to finance a purchase.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Mark 5 said:


> Anyone got any ideas on a possible upgrade from the R2R-11 maybe around $500 or so?  I know about the Denafrips models, and would love to have an Ares or Ares II.  And unfortunately (not for real, lol) I already own the Modi Multibit / Eitr and the Airist RDAC.  Seems like the Bifrost 2 is the next logical step, but I just can't afford $699 at the moment.


I don't think there is any obvious upgrade in sound quality but there might be in features. You have to spend quite a lot more money to hear significant differences, diminishing returns and all that...

I doubt very much any of the entry level schiit is worth anything. From what I read I'm not clear that Aeres / II would be an upgrade in sound quality either.

If you're happy with the R2R-11 maybe you ought to set your sights on something from Audio-gd. If you send an email Kingwa can probably suggest something.


----------



## 439598

yes it's a good point, if you're most happy with R2R11 then no matter how much you spend anything else will sound too clean and resolving ie 'sterile' . Ares II would definitely be a 'downgrade' in this sense.


----------



## ProLoL

Ares2 is very musical actually and is a step up from the R2R11 but that's 2x the price. As I said, could live happily with both.
If R2R11 had the Ares2 resolution, that would be a game changer.


----------



## Jandu

Mark 5 said:


> Anyone got any ideas on a possible upgrade from the R2R-11 maybe around $500 or so?  I know about the Denafrips models, and would love to have an Ares or Ares II.  And



If you are using normal/simple PC as the music source, you may want to try the following combo:

RPi 4B - $80
Good power supply, preferred Linear Power supply with low noise. $100-200

This can be done for less than $300 and this may be you best bet for upgrade.


----------



## sajunky (Nov 13, 2020)

Acke said:


> yes it's a good point, if you're most happy with R2R11 then no matter how much you spend anything else will sound too clean and resolving ie 'sterile' . Ares II would definitely be a 'downgrade' in this sense.


I am not expert in audiophile vocabulary and English is not my native language, but for me 'sterile' and 'clean' are not the same or at least it shouldn't be, IHMO. "Clean" means free from distortions, both harmonic and non-linear like jitter or other intermodulation effects on non-linearities of the components.

If you ever heard high-end setup (not in a shop, but a continously improved gear during many years), you know what I mean. R2R11 has surprisingly all attributes of high-end sound except being clean. It is not totally bad, as we are able to tolerate some kind of distortions. I have awareness it could be better (same as the OP). Some other member says: R2R11 is a "gateway to the high-end sound". I do agree, it create desire for something better, but sound imperfections don't throw me away. I can listen to R2R11 for hours without being tired, the same as to the local FM station that use high-end DAC.

Sterile sound is created both by some Delta-Sigma DACs with extensive DSP and a currently popular amplifiers with nested-loopback. Examples are THX 789, my FiiO E12A or the latest Topping amps. These are also examples of clean sound, but not similar to the high-end equipment, as something is missing. This is why I call it 'sterile'. You may have an impression of a high resolution, but it is misleading, as in a case of DS DACs harmonics are fake, sound is simplified (various tones of a single piano key are blended into a single dominant tone or it sounds distorted), also missing natural reverbations on a decay. Nested loopback amplifiers are losing transparency during fast transients (which is music). People call it sounding 'dark', uninvolving. 798-types are popular when paired with DS converters, as sound is simplified already.

I may agree about Ares in this aspect. In the Ares there is no pure NOS mode. Data streem is subject to DSP pre-processing even in NOS mode, it cannot be switched off. It may sound more sterile for this reason. It is why Audio GD R1 is a natural upgrade for R2R11. 

There are many ways to clean sound of R2R11. A ladder is sensitive to ground loops. It helps reversing plug on the laptop PSU (possible with 2-prong Europlug), blocking 5V pin and attaching two ferrite clamps on both sides of the USB cable. I plan to make my own USB cable. There is a current discussion in the DI-20 section for chosing the best USB cable. If it helps DI-20 that has galvanically isolated USB port, it will make even greater effect on R2R11.


----------



## Zenvota (Nov 13, 2020)

Mark 5 said:


> Anyone got any ideas on a possible upgrade from the R2R-11 maybe around $500 or so?  I know about the Denafrips models, and would love to have an Ares or Ares II.  And unfortunately (not for real, lol) I already own the Modi Multibit / Eitr and the Airist RDAC.  Seems like the Bifrost 2 is the next logical step, but I just can't afford $699 at the moment.



power and signal tweaks.

-low interwinding capacitance isolation transformer
-quadrapole power cable
-galvanically isolated input
-low noise reclocked transport

the best budget system i came up with consisting of used components:

topaz 91091 or 91092 preferably -32 but -12 and -22 are fine $50

find a cheap used vh audio flavor 4 preferably but 2 is fine $50

if using a pc use usb to a used uptone usb regen($50) with a jameco lps($15) and a quadrapole dc cable between them.  then a decent ddc with a lps and tcxo like the breeze du-u8($75), and optical to the r2r11.

or find a used iso regen and ultracap(with the ground shunted smps, $300) combo for straight usb, same thing quadrapole dc cable between them.

this is near complete external noise reduction and isolation with strong signal quality.  youll be suprised how good the r2r11 actually sounds.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sajunky said:


> I am not expert in audiophile vocabulary and English is not my native language, but for me 'sterile' and 'clean' are not the same or at least it shouldn't be, IHMO. "Clean" means free from distortions, both harmonic and non-linear like jitter or other intermodulation effects on non-linearities of the components.
> 
> If you ever heard high-end setup (not in a shop, but a continously improved gear during many years), you know what I mean. R2R11 has surprisingly all attributes of high-end sound except being clean. It is not totally bad, as we are able to tolerate some kind of distortions. I have awareness it could be better (same as the OP). Some other member says: R2R11 is a "gateway to the high-end sound". I do agree, it create desire for something better, but sound imperfections don't throw me away. I can listen to R2R11 for hours without being tired, the same as to the local FM station that use high-end DAC.
> 
> ...



English is not your native language? Damn, you could have fooled me. This post makes all kinds of sense...


----------



## ProLoL

I'm selling a custom version of the R2R11 with I2S input for a dedicated transporter if you're serious about R2R11 upgrading.


----------



## CJG888

ProLoL said:


> I'm selling a custom version of the R2R11 with I2S input for a dedicated transporter if you're serious about R2R11 upgrading.



How did you implement the I2S input? Did you use the kit from Kingwa to swap out the USB input?


----------



## ProLoL

CJG888 said:


> How did you implement the I2S input? Did you use the kit from Kingwa to swap out the USB input?



Kingwa did it himself and yes, he swapped the amanero with the i2s kit.


----------



## conquerator2

Something in particular you don't like about it? I think it's a very magical piece of kit (great ratio of transparency of warmth) so haven't look at other gear since purchasing it.


----------



## areek

Need help!!
I have been using the R2R11 for more than 2 years now. I had no problem connecting it to my windows 10 pc via usb. However, I recently unplugged and plugged the usb from the pc and since then, the R2R11 is not being detected by my pc at all.I reinstalled the drivers from audiogd website but the device just does not show up. I can, however, connect the dac with my phone using a otg cable and use it as a dac, no problems. Need solution!!!


----------



## CJG888

Faulty USB cable?


----------



## Jandu

areek said:


> Need help!!
> I have been using the R2R11 for more than 2 years now. I had no problem connecting it to my windows 10 pc via usb. However, I recently unplugged and plugged the usb from the pc and since then, the R2R11 is not being detected by my pc at all.I reinstalled the drivers from audiogd website but the device just does not show up. I can, however, connect the dac with my phone using a otg cable and use it as a dac, no problems. Need solution!!!


Reinstalled firmware driver or amanero driver?


----------



## sajunky (Nov 16, 2020)

Either the cable, also try different USB port. When cleaning/removing drivers keep R2R11 unplugged, restart Windows. Reinstall Amanero drivers and only reconnect a DAC when installer ask for or is finishing.

BTW,
1. A-GD website redirects to the Amanero website for drivers. Where did you download from?
2. Do you keep Windows drivers auto-updating? During re-plug Windows could load updated (buggy) drivers. Check Windows driver versions. As the latest version of Windows support USB Audio Class 2.0 devices internally, Amanero do not replace Windows built-in drivers, only load on a top of it.


----------



## areek

Jandu said:


> Reinstalled firmware driver or amanero driver?


I think I did amenero. 


CJG888 said:


> Faulty USB cable?


No, cable works fine with phone.



sajunky said:


> Either the cable, also try different USB port. When cleaning/removing drivers keep R2R11 unplugged, restart Windows. Reinstall Amanero drivers and only reconnect a DAC when installer ask for or is finishing.
> 
> BTW,
> 1. A-GD website redirects to the Amanero website for drivers. Where did you download from?
> 2. Do you keep Windows drivers auto-updating? During re-plug Windows could load updated (buggy) drivers. Check Windows driver versions. As the latest version of Windows support USB Audio Class 2.0 devices internally, Amanero do not replace Windows built-in drivers, only load on a top of it.


I do have windows on auto update.How to check if driver is faulty or not? Thanks.


----------



## Jandu

areek said:


> I do have windows on auto update.How to check if driver is faulty or not? Thanks.



Just uninstall driver and reinstall. If you do this before  plugging in the USB,  auto install will not take over.  You have to specify the driver.


----------



## areek

Jandu said:


> Just uninstall driver and reinstall. If you do this before  plugging in the USB,  auto install will not take over.  You have to specify the driver.


tried uninstall and reinstall, nothing happens.


----------



## Nickol

areek said:


> I have been using the R2R11 for more than 2 years now. I had no problem connecting it to my windows 10 pc via usb. However, I recently unplugged and plugged the usb from the pc and since then, the R2R11 is not being detected by my pc at all.I reinstalled the drivers from audiogd website but the device just does not show up.


Try to use a different USB cable anyway


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think this happened to me once also. Go to Add Remove Programs and uninstall everything that has to do with the Audio-gd. I think there might be two things you have to uninstall.

Reboot

Install amanero again. Hope it works...


----------



## areek

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think this happened to me once also. Go to Add Remove Programs and uninstall everything that has to do with the Audio-gd. I think there might be two things you have to uninstall.
> 
> Reboot
> 
> Install amanero again. Hope it works...


Thanks for the suggestion. I tried that out, but did not work. I am at a loss here. I will try to see if I can use the optical port.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm sorry to hear that 

I guess you could email Audio-gd... Kingwa seems like he really wants to help but his English is almost as bad as my Chinese 

Maybe unplug the DAC and let it sit for 30 minutes and try again.. does anybody know if there is a reset button? Mine is a few thousand km away right now so I can't check.

If you want, post a screenshot of your add/remove programs listing if you don't have any security/privacy issue and we can try to determine if everything that needs to be deleted really is.


----------



## sajunky

Sorry to hear. In the worst case a new Amanero module will restore USB port, but soldering iron and some basic skills are required. Kingwa can send a new one. It is a customised one, so don't buy directly from Amanero website.


----------



## areek

Nickol said:


> Try to use a different USB cable anyway


This worked!!!! I was able to find a cable in local shops (very rare here, weirdly) and that worked. Funny how it works with pc but not with the phone whereas the old cable works with phone but not pc. lol
Thanks for all the suggestions good people. Can't thank you guys enough.


----------



## autur

Does anyone have any insight into why DMS unlisted his youtube review of the R2R-11? 

It is basically unsearchable in youtube, and I could only find a link to it via this thread. Is DMS trying to distance himself from his endorsement of it as one of the "Best budget amp of all time"? And might it have something to do with the poor measurements of Audio Gd products at audiosciencereview.com?

For the record, I bought the NFB-11.28 two years ago due to the glowing reviews, and I distinctly recall DMS's review as one of the catalysts for my decision. I don't dislike it and will probably keep it for many years, but not gonna lie.. the measurements at audiosciencereview did make me feel like an idiot for placing so much stock in subjective reviews. Never again


----------



## gimmeheadroom

The only idiot is the person who believes in audio scientology. You're entitled to like what you like and nobody can tell you it's crap.


----------



## PopZeus

Ugh, don't do that to yourself. First of all, ASR hates Audio-gd, as do their objectivist acolytes. The bias is as silly as it is ridiculous. Also, I don't find ASR useful to me or my audiophile journey. Like, at all. You can have a very fulfilling time with this hobby and can freely ignore ASR at the same time. It's possible!


----------



## sajunky (Dec 21, 2020)

A head of this circus is not a scientist. He is not even an engineer. He was a head of Microsoft audio division when Microsoft was trying to build media centre and everything he touched failed. R2R-11 tests were botchered, revealing ground loops in his gear. Disturbance was so strong that R2R-11 was forced to recalibrate every 20 seconds (read his comments). Despite a clear indication of a failure he did continue with tests. There are other botchered tests affected by ground loops, the most infamous is Totaldac six test. Read my comments, it was a moment I was banned for disrespect.

I bought Topping D30 based on his recommendation, it was the worst purchase in my life. Then I got in emergency $42 Nobsound 8xTDA1387 DAC/HPA as I couldn't listen to the Topping crap and I was surprised with result. It gave me indication that Amir was totally wrong and something whispered to me that I should buy one of the worst measuring device on his website. And now I am a proud owner of R2R-11, the most natural sounding device for $350 we can find.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> A head of this circus is not a scientist. He is not even an engineer. He was a head of Microsoft audio division when Microsoft was trying to build media centre and everything he touched failed. R2R-11 tests were botchered, revealing ground loops in his gear. Disturbance was so strong that R2R-11 was forced to recalibrate every 20 seconds (read his comments). Despite a clear indication of a failure he did continue with tests. There are other botchered tests affected by ground loops, the most infamous is Totaldac six test. Read my comments, it was a moment I was banned for disrespect.
> 
> I bought Topping D30 based on his recommendation, it was the worst purchase in my life. Then I got in emergency $42 Nobsound 8xTDA1387 DAC/HPA as I couldn't listen to the Topping crap and I was surprised with result. It gave me indication that Amir was totally wrong and something whispered to me that I should buy one of the worst measuring device on his website. And now I am a proud owner of R2R-11, the most natural sounding device for $350 we can find.


Yep the proof is in the listening.


----------



## Pharmaboy

autur said:


> the measurements at audiosciencereview did make me feel like an idiot for placing so much stock in subjective reviews. Never again



Your own 2 ears are the highest quality, most functional audio assessment devices you'll ever need. Nothing ASR uses (badly sometimes) even comes close.


----------



## autur

sajunky said:


> R2R-11 tests were botchered, revealing ground loops in his gear. Disturbance was so strong that R2R-11 was forced to recalibrate every 20 seconds (read his comments). Despite a clear indication of a failure he did continue with tests. There are other botchered tests affected by ground loops, the most infamous is Totaldac six test. Read my comments, it was a moment I was banned for disrespect.



Can you send me a link to the discussion? I'm curious how that went down. 

I think the biggest point of contention for Amir is that he wasn't able to replicate the measurements that Audio Gd posted in their graphs for the R2R-11. 





> "In general, I don't trust any measurements they post. They have no resemblance to anything I get either with the same analyzer they have (my older one) or new AP I have. They need to hire a third-party measurement company to produce certified and independent results of purchased units." source



Now, the question is who are we to trust more for having conducted the tests validly? I like to believe that Audio Gd has far more experience in testing their gear and knowing what they're doing, as opposed to a hobbyist who has far less experience and understanding. But as a general rule, I also believe that in any science, measurements should be replicable, especially by third parties, so it's worrying that their measurements (company vs third-party) don't converge. 

Anyways, I'm aware of arguments that have been made on both sides as to the value of objective measurement vs subjective impressions, so there's no need to rehash it here. I'm still happy with my purchase. I just wanted to ask if anyone knew why DMS's review went unlisted and if it has anything to do with ASR. His review was perhaps the strongest endorsement of the R2R 11 that I've seen.


----------



## autur

Alright, so DMS just replied to my youtube comment asking why the review was unlisted. He said " There’s just better products now that are cheaper". I guess that's a reasonable justification.


----------



## sajunky (Dec 22, 2020)

autur said:


> Can you send me a link to the discussion? I'm curious how that went down.


Here it is: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ments-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/post-218472
My first post was ignored, so you need to jump few pages:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ments-of-totaldac-d1-six-dac.8192/post-221229
Till you see Sassy Queen pic.
Oh gosh, now I am an active member. 

The same discussion with Amir heated up on the South African forum. This time I wrote about faults in R2R-11 tests: https://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,80961.msg966524.html#msg966524

Note, the same power generator was probably used and 100Hz spike was 30dB above noise floor with 5th harmonics (actually 10th harmonics from 50Hz) only 3dB lower, so I think this noise was spreading far above 1kHz.

As you see from my post it was a time I decided to purchase R2R-11 that was currently on sale. And I don't regret.


----------



## motberg

sajunky said:


> A head of this circus is not a scientist. He is not even an engineer. He was a head of Microsoft audio division when Microsoft was trying to build media centre and everything he touched failed. R2R-11 tests were botchered, revealing ground loops in his gear. Disturbance was so strong that R2R-11 was forced to recalibrate every 20 seconds (read his comments). Despite a clear indication of a failure he did continue with tests. There are other botchered tests affected by ground loops, the most infamous is Totaldac six test. Read my comments, it was a moment I was banned for disrespect.
> 
> I bought Topping D30 based on his recommendation, it was the worst purchase in my life. Then I got in emergency $42 Nobsound 8xTDA1387 DAC/HPA as I couldn't listen to the Topping crap and I was surprised with result. It gave me indication that Amir was totally wrong and something whispered to me that I should buy one of the worst measuring device on his website. And now I am a proud owner of R2R-11, the most natural sounding device for $350 we can find.


Ha ! exactly my experience as well... I tried 4 DAC's for a second system... D50, D70, A20H, R2R11.... kept the R2R11 as most natural/real/dynamic sound quality.. also still have the D50 as my buyer returned it saying it was a piece of #$@t (I discounted it about 50% of list.. I didn't really think it was so bad.. just somewhat plastic sounding)


----------



## manueljenkin

sajunky said:


> A head of this circus is not a scientist. He is not even an engineer. He was a head of Microsoft audio division when Microsoft was trying to build media centre and everything he touched failed. R2R-11 tests were botchered, revealing ground loops in his gear. Disturbance was so strong that R2R-11 was forced to recalibrate every 20 seconds (read his comments). Despite a clear indication of a failure he did continue with tests. There are other botchered tests affected by ground loops, the most infamous is Totaldac six test. Read my comments, it was a moment I was banned for disrespect.
> 
> I bought Topping D30 based on his recommendation, it was the worst purchase in my life. Then I got in emergency $42 Nobsound 8xTDA1387 DAC/HPA as I couldn't listen to the Topping crap and I was surprised with result. It gave me indication that Amir was totally wrong and something whispered to me that I should buy one of the worst measuring device on his website. And now I am a proud owner of R2R-11, the most natural sounding device for $350 we can find.


What is the power output of the nobsound? If it's more than 200mw into 32 ohms I'm interested.


----------



## sajunky

manueljenkin said:


> What is the power output of the nobsound? If it's more than 200mw into 32 ohms I'm interested.


Unfortunately only 60mW. It drives my Sennheiser HD4.50 BTNC well (19 Ohms). It is probably maximum you can get from a single 5V power rail. The chip is TDA1308, you can get details from a datasheet. For HD600 I tried to pair Nobsound with FiiO E12A (a list price was a half of R2R11), but this type of nested loopback sound is more suitable for DS converters. I wonder how people pay so much for such for good looking gadgets.


----------



## manueljenkin

sajunky said:


> Unfortunately only 60mW. It drives my Sennheiser HD4.50 BTNC well (19 Ohms). It is probably maximum you can get from a single 5V power rail. The chip is TDA1308, you can get details from a datasheet. For HD600 I tried to pair Nobsound with FiiO E12A (a list price was a half of R2R11), but this type of nested loopback sound is more suitable for DS converters. I wonder how people pay so much for such for good looking gadgets.



That's a bit unfortunate. I'm looking for something that will drive my shures well and can be made portable. So looking for something of good quality (not some topping or other devices with nasty hf haze) and decent power 500mw or so in a portable form factor. Any other device you know of that'll do a good job of high current output?


----------



## ProLoL

Did anyone notice a difference between the early production r2r11 vs the new one with DSD fixed?
From my experience, the older version is more organic and the newest version is more neutral and open.
What are your thoughts?


----------



## sajunky

Interesting question. There are no many people having both to answer this. Isn't more organic sound linked to coloration? I am puzzled, as these terms are not mutually exclusive, but a neutral is usually indicative of lack of coloration.  A sound open up too.

2019 version received a new DA-8 v2 modules with a fix of DSD background noise in hardware. Models with FPGA have received already fix in a firmware, R2R-11 had to wait for a V2 DA-8 module, it is what makes 2019 version. Homepage doesn't say about any improvements of PCM decoding.

Do you have the older unit upgraded with a March 2018 firmware?  It was supposed to fix another issue, a click associated with changing sample rates and when starting DSD playback, but according to reports it only helped a bit, not eliminating completely. I have an early model and asked Kingwa whether I should upgrade if I don't care about clicks on DSD playback. The answer was clear, I should not upgrade. If you did, ask Kingwa whether there is a reason to downgrade.

The other factor can affect SQ. Is firmware in the Amanero module upgraded to the latest version? I did last year and I think it was beneficial on my Win7 setup. Instruction on the homepage is crosslinked to the wrong page (updated recently for new models), not valid anymore. If you want to do it, refer to this post.


----------



## ProLoL (Mar 11, 2021)

My first R2R11 was a 2017 version then got a 2020 version and now got another 2017 version.
And yes oraganic as in colored and neutral as lack of coloration also has more topend extension. The older version is a bit rolled off but has that magic that
made me fall in love with the R2R11 in the first place. Firmware updates and amanero, even a slight change will affect the overall sound.

Is it for certain that the version above the 2019 got the DA-8 v2 and older got DA8 v1?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> Interesting question. There are no many people having both to answer this. Isn't more organic sound linked to coloration? I am puzzled, as these terms are not mutually exclusive, but a neutral is usually indicative of lack of coloration.  A sound open up too.
> 
> 2019 version received a new DA-8 v2 modules with a fix of DSD background noise in hardware. Models with FPGA have received already fix in a firmware, R2R-11 had to wait for a V2 DA-8 module, it is what makes 2019 version. Homepage doesn't say about any improvements of PCM decoding.
> 
> ...


I don't notice any clicks on DSD. I won't declare there are none, but I checked several times after reading this thread and didn't hear anything offensive IIRC.


----------



## sajunky

ProLoL said:


> Is it for certain that the version above the 2019 got the DA-8 v2 and older got DA8 v1?


Affirmative. Versions sold from October 2018 received DA-8 v2. A difference seems to be only in a DSD decoding section. It is a separate resistor ladder from a main R2R ladder. You don't know whether the older unit had been upgraded with a March 2018  firmware, can you enquiry the previous owner? Amanero module firmware should be updated on these models. Even it was done already, it doesn't harm to do it again.


----------



## sajunky

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't notice any clicks on DSD. I won't declare there are none, but I checked several times after reading this thread and didn't hear anything offensive IIRC.


There are clicks, sometimes when changing PCM sample rate, more frequent when starting DSD playback. On a proorly mastered DSD ISO images there are also clicks between tracks. Small clicks, not a problem to me, but after a long complains from users in R2R-11 thread and also R28 thread, I made a summary from my side in the R2R-11 thread, giving some examples of DSD tracks that also suffer from a strange noise that comes up a second (not immediately) after intensive music suddenly turns to a quiet part. This bug had been fixed in the R2R-11 2019 version. A website states of increased noise separation, but this noise is not static, on most parts of a quiet music is not present at all, only in few specific places and you must turn a volume a lot to hear anything.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> There are clicks, sometimes when changing PCM sample rate, more frequent when starting DSD playback. On a proorly mastered DSD ISO images there are also clicks between tracks. Small clicks, not a problem to me, but after a long complains from users in R2R-11 thread and also R28 thread, I made a summary from my side in the R2R-11 thread, giving some examples of DSD tracks that also suffer from a strange noise that comes up a second (not immediately) after intensive music suddenly turns to a quiet part. This bug had been fixed in the R2R-11 2019 version. A website states of increased noise separation, but this noise is not static, on most parts of a quiet music is not present at all, only in few specific places and you must turn a volume a lot to hear anything.


I know about your earlier posts, thank you they have been super.

I do have the latest version so what I meant to answer is that no, I don't hear pops on DSD. I don't do transitions from PCM to DSD often though, I usually play an SACD rip all the way through. Have not noticed anything between tracks.


----------



## sajunky (Mar 29, 2021)

Hi Lads/Guys. I am not sure it is a right thread, but R2R-11 thread is in the amp section and this matter is about interfacing and Amanero module.

To cut it short, skip this paragraph. I have an old laptop with Core 2 Duo CPU, Windows 7 for playing music, as it gives the best SQ. It was already partially damaged, LCD screen with vertical strips (not repairable), so I use external VGA monitor. Recently during a power outage (which are common in democratic South Africa protecting common criminals and copper cable theft), power supply was blown. After replacing power brick I found damaged number of items, a laptop screen lost a backlit, USB hard drive and USB port on the hub R2R-11 had been attached not working anymore. Luckily a DAC survived, but I started to experience ID problems and cutting off playback. It was the same on the other computer with Windows 10, so I suspected the worse, but it happened the same external monitor giving a strong AC leak, monitor is also damaged, a DAC is not!!!

For the above reason I started to investigate USB interface and discovered that my Amanero module is not using isochronous but bulk USB transfers -- the same as storage devices (memory sticks and hard drives). See attached two screenshots of a performance monitor. This Windows built-in application is partially functioning (some counters not loaded or not working), so I downloaded a trial version of USBlyzer that confirms this fact, see the last screenshot.

Amanero driver is initiating playback using #2 endpoint, which is a bulk transfer, not the endpoint #5 which is advertised in device properties for isochronous asynchronous transfers. It is the same when starting WASAPI event/push, ASIO and DS (system mixer) playback. There is also the same on Windows 10 PC. I updated to the latest driver v1.0.67, it changes transfer buffer size from 32kB to 8kB, no other changes. Firmware on the Amanero module is already updated .

My R2R-11 is an older version (pre-2019), it is interesting to compare other versions, also other Audio GD DACs. Maybe my Amanero module is damaged, so I need your feedback. @ProLoL, is it answer to your question?

Using a tool is simple, but requires prior installation and OS restart:
1. Attach a DAC. Start and stop playback to wake-up hard drives.
2. Start USBlyzer.
3. In device tree window tick a box next to the Amaneno device (highlighting is not enough).
4. Click "Start capture" icon.
5. Start playback.
6. Wait few seconds and stop capturing.


----------



## Preface (Mar 29, 2021)

Hi sajunky,

Audio GD R1 (2021) 1.0.67 drivers Win 10

URB Bulk or Interrupt Transfer succeeded
Device Object    USBPDO-2
Driver Object    USBHUB3

URB Function    URB_FUNCTION_BULK_OR_INTERRUPT_TRANSFER
URB Status    USBD_STATUS_SUCCESS

Endpoint 02h    2 Out, Bulk

Bytes Transferred    4000h (16384)


----------



## Telin

Audio-GD NFB-11.38 (2021) 1.0.67 drivers on Windows 10 Enterprise x64 20H2





I'm happy with the sound from the NFB-11.38
What I'm not so happy with is that the music playback stops at least once every time I use the Audio-GD with a "device lockup" error and then need to restart.
Never had this problem with my Xmos based DAC I had connected to the same system.

I'm all ears if anyone knows a solution.
Starts to get annoying. Thinking about connecting it using optical to see if that makes it more stable but then I would need to active and install the realtec onboard crap 
Maybe I'll just toss the whole thing (a shame as i do like everything else about it) and go back to an Xmos based DAC...


----------



## sajunky (Mar 29, 2021)

Thanks guys, it was quick. For me it is a confirmation that my Amanero module do not work in somehow a 'backup' mode, but it is normal.


Telin said:


> I'm happy with the sound from the NFB-11.38
> What I'm not so happy with is that the music playback stops at least once every time I use the Audio-GD with a "device lockup" error and then need to restart.
> Never had this problem with my Xmos based DAC I had connected to the same system.


This was exactly the same till I was removing defective monitor from my system. Stopping a playback due to a serious error. It was both with this laptop and also Windows 10 PC. Before I delegated this monitor to the other job I found a solution, it might help:

Find a piece of a multistrand wire (a typical gauge as in the AC power cord). Hook it up to the enclosure of the PC on one side and to the DAC enclosure on the other side. You can use a screw on a case for attaching a wire. My laptop do not have any external ground point, I had to cut an old unused USB cable and attach it to the USB 0V wire (usually black, but it has to be verified). Now it needs to plug it to a laptop USB port and there is no stopping playback anymore!

Explanation:
Amanero module use 1MOhm resistor (with 1nF in parallel) from a cable shield to the 0V ground supplying a module (from a DAC PSU). In my opinion a value of the resistor is to high, but I didn't want to modify a module. A cable shield is also receiving a permanent connection to the DAC's enclosure by a mounting pins. This is on the DAC's USB side.

On the DAC's PSU side there is implemented a clever method of dealing with ground loops, called a "virtual ground". It consists a small 10Ohm resistor between power outlet ground pin to the enclosure, in parallel with two diods clamping a possible AC overvoltage to a maximum 0.7V-1V. Problem is that this method is not sufficient to deal with a large AC leaks. It is why my cable ground connection is helping.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> Thanks guys, it was quick. For me it is a confirmation that my Amanero module do not work in somehow a 'backup' mode, but it is normal.
> 
> This was exactly the same till I was removing defective monitor from my system. Stopping a playback due to a serious error. It was both with this laptop and also Windows 10 PC. Before I delegated this monitor to the other job I found a solution, it might help:
> 
> ...


Interesting.
I will try the external grounding option. Computer case has screws and the Audio-GD unit has screws to in the housing so it's easy enough to connect a wire between them.
My computer is not connected to a grounded outlet though. My house is build in a time that grounded outlets were only installed in "wet" rooms like the kitchen.
But I'll see what it does..

I will most likely completely ditch the Audio-GD and go back to an XMOS based DAC if this little wire trick doesn't help. Can't get myself to go back and instal realtek stuff again to get onboard optical out which audio is still processed by the motherboard so prolly won't be very good to begin with.

Would be something if you could just plop in a XMOS USB to I2S converter into the Audio-GD instead of the wonky Amanero one.


----------



## Telin

Seems like there's something more going on with the Amanero USB implementation of the Audio-GD R2R11, prolly will also be the same with the NFB-11.38..



> When I was running my dashboard, I noticed every once in a while the waveform would get distorted and THD would shoot up. I checked and all of my Windows/ASIO buffers were set to large values to avoid buffer underruns but the problem remained. Wanted to confirm it, I ran a continuous measurement, watching THD+N as time went by and got this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Preface

Telin said:


> Seems like there's something more going on with the Amanero USB implementation of the Audio-GD R2R11, prolly will also be the same with the NFB-11.38..


I was always surprised and nerved by the fact that when Amanero was connected, an icon appeared in the system tray, like when a USB flash drive or external drive was connected. Now there is an explanation for this. The same behavior was with DI-20 which collects dust now, since 2021 changes in R1 USB, made it is not necessary.

I have a XMOS based Singxer SU-2 which is bulletproof - for example, I can use it as default Windows sound device and play music via Foobar with ASIO. I even play games like Skyrim and listen to music from Foobar in background. 
But it is not possible with Amanero - Foobar complaining about locked device.
I can try it with my Audio-GD via I2S, the only thing that prevents me is the lack of space, and doubtful aesthetics. And I do not think that it will somehow improve the sound. Because R1(2021) sounds very well for me.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Mar 30, 2021)

I don't understand your comments. I have the R2R-11 (latest version, 2019) which has Amanero and yet I can play SACD rips from Foobar via ASIO to the Audio-gd.

I did have one problem after I first set up the gear but I uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers and never had an issue again.


----------



## Preface

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't understand your comments. I have the R2R-11 (latest version, 2019) which has Amanero and yet I can play SACD rips from Foobar via ASIO to the Audio-gd.


If Amanero is set as Windows default output device, I can play music through it. But not with Foobar via ASIO - it gives the error "Unrecoverable playback error: Could not start ASIO playback". 
I have to switch Windows output device to another endpoint (NVIDIA High Definition Audio in my case), and mandatory restart Foobar. Only after that it plays music.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Preface said:


> If Amanero is set as Windows default output device, I can play music through it. But not with Foobar via ASIO - it gives the error "Unrecoverable playback error: Could not start ASIO playback".
> I have to switch Windows output device to another endpoint (NVIDIA High Definition Audio in my case), and mandatory restart Foobar. Only after that it plays music.


I don't have this issue. In addition to Tidal, I have Deezer which uses the default Windows device. I can definitely play from Tidal, Deezer, or Foobar without changing any settings, everything goes to the R2R-11.


----------



## Preface

gimmeheadroom said:


> I don't have this issue. In addition to Tidal, I have Deezer which uses the default Windows device. I can definitely play from Tidal, Deezer, or Foobar without changing any settings, everything goes to the R2R-11.


That's strange. As I said, it was the same with DI-20. Could you please check, which output device is set in your Foobar?
I use "DSD : ASIO Combo384 ASIO 1.03". 

Thanks.


----------



## Telin

Preface said:


> I was always surprised and nerved by the fact that when Amanero was connected, an icon appeared in the system tray, like when a USB flash drive or external drive was connected.


Now that you mention it.. I noticed the same.
Personally I find it kinda weird that the Amanero interface shows up as a removable device, XMOS interface never did.
Don't see the purpose why the Amanero interface should be "removable".


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> Seems like there's something more going on with the Amanero USB implementation of the Audio-GD R2R11, prolly will also be the same with the NFB-11.38..


I am giving you a solution and you bring to us such crap? Amir had completely malfunctioning setup, maybe you should read my comment on that, posted not so long ago. Do you want your DAC working properly? I will stop responding if you continue.


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> Personally I find it kinda weird that the Amanero interface shows up as a removable device, XMOS interface never did.
> Don't see the purpose why the Amanero interface should be "removable".


It is a new feature of Amanero driver and is only on Windows 10. It install a child driver, you can see it in Device Manager, select the option view devices by connection and expand a tree. I don’t really know what it is for, ask Amanero. This is completely unrelated to the Audio GD or your problem.


----------



## sajunky (Mar 30, 2021)

Telin said:


> Interesting.
> I will try the external grounding option. Computer case has screws and the Audio-GD unit has screws to in the housing so it's easy enough to connect a wire between them.
> My computer is not connected to a grounded outlet though. My house is build in a time that grounded outlets were only installed in "wet" rooms like the kitchen.
> But I'll see what it does..


So your DAC has no ground connection too. This is a main problem. A metal computer (and a DAC) enclosure without a ground wire is illegal in many countries, as it is dangerous to your life. Your case is closed, you mustn’t try my fix unless your plugs have identified Live and Neutral pins and they are aligned properly.


----------



## sajunky

Guys, don’t panic. There are posters who jumped in and spread rubbish. My R2R-11 plays everything as it should, the same R-1 and all other high-end equipment from other manufacturers who use Amanero device. This is a high quality device, XMOS out of the box is more jittery.

I have more finding, but not going to share, unless this histeria stops.


----------



## Telin

Quite hostile aren't you.. 

I merly stated that I love my Audio-GD unit except for the fact that it locks up regularly. I never had this before with any devices so my first impression is that it has something to do with the Amanero interface as this has never been an issue with an XMOS based DAC.
Other then that I'm happy with the device, it plays everything I want and it sounds great. 

I know that the grounding issue is not preferable but it is what it is untill I find the time to get some ground wires to different outlets. 
This never has been an issue with any computer or device I used so far in all these years though. This issue with the Audio-GD could be the first if it is a grounding issue to begin with. Might as well be a software issue. 

Again I'm not bashing Audio-GD, I'm just trying multiple angeles to troubleshoot my lockup issue. Have to say I find it kinda odd that apparently the Amanero interface doesn't run in asynchronous mode by default though.


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> Quite hostile aren't you..
> 
> I merly stated that I love my Audio-GD unit except for the fact that it locks up regularly. I never had this before with any devices so my first impression is that it has something to do with the Amanero interface as this has never been an issue with an XMOS based DAC.
> Other then that I'm happy with the device, it plays everything I want and it sounds great.


Your connection is dangerous, bypassing ground is illegal. And I gave you a solution for a proper installation, not your wire-mesh. Where you live, in a shack with illegal connection? Get electrician certification first, then you can come back.


Telin said:


> Again I'm not bashing Audio-GD, I'm just trying multiple angeles to troubleshoot my lockup issue. Have to say I find it kinda odd that apparently the Amanero interface doesn't run in asynchronous mode by default though.


It does run in bulk mode, I understand now why a name of a driver has changed to “Digital Interface Amanero...”. It gives full USB synchronization with a clock running on the Amanero board which is a master clock for this transfer, no PLL and other de-jittery methods are required. Perfect scenario. There are many asynchronous modes and only one matches performance of this connection. I saw some high-end devices running in this mode and only one supermarket brand, Musiland has a dongle running in this mode.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> Your connection is dangerous, bypassing ground is illegal. And I gave you a solution for a proper installation, not your wire-mesh. Where you live, in a shack with illegal connection? Get electrician certification first, then you can come back.


Again so much hostility... is that the Head-Fi standard or something. 

What exactly do you mean with "your wire-mesh"?


sajunky said:


> It does run in bulk mode, I understand now why a name of a driver has changed to “Digital Interface Amanero...”. It gives full USB synchronization with a clock running on the Amanero board which is a master clock for this transfer, no PLL and other de-jittery methods are required. Perfect scenario. There are many asynchronous modes and only one matches performance of this connection. I saw some high-end devices running in this mode and only one supermarket brand, Musiland has a dongle running in this mode.



I'm not that tech savvy in electronics so if you say the Amanero is a technically good interface I believe you. 
At the same time it is the first interface I experience issues with that I try to troubleshoot from different angles. You mostly contribute by firing one insult after another. How is that in anyway constructive?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Preface said:


> That's strange. As I said, it was the same with DI-20. Could you please check, which output device is set in your Foobar?
> I use "DSD : ASIO Combo384 ASIO 1.03".
> 
> Thanks.


I'm sorry, my Audio-gd is in another country. The ASIO device you mention sounds right to me but I don't have a way to verify it now.


----------



## sajunky (Mar 31, 2021)

gimmeheadroom said:


> I'm sorry, my Audio-gd is in another country. The ASIO device you mention sounds right to me but I don't have a way to verify it now.


ASIO works the same as WASAPI, using a direct I/O control routines instead of higher level system calls, no problem with a specific mode.


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> Again so much hostility... is that the Head-Fi standard or something.
> 
> What exactly do you mean with "your wire-mesh"?


I wrote already, you still do not understand?
You are bypassing a ground pin in both computer and a DAC. It is dangerous and illegal in most countries. If I kept silent on this issue, it would be wrong. Bring an electrical compliance certificate for your home installation, otherwise we cannot continue.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> I wrote already, you still do not understand?
> You are bypassing a ground pin in both computer and a DAC. It is dangerous and illegal in most countries. If I kept silent on this issue, it would be wrong. Bring an electrical compliance certificate for your home installation, otherwise we cannot continue.


It's not illegal, it's just an old installation. 
Until 1997 grounding was not mandatory except for wet rooms like the bathroom. After 1997 grounding became mandatory in all rooms for new installations. Old installations (like mine) are not affected by that new rule, until major renovations happen. When that happens those new rules will also apply to the whole installation. Old installations are still fully in compliance with the rules and regulations as set in my country.
(I got my electrician certification 20 years ago, not that it matters though)

So next time you try to be a big boy and throw around insults make sure you have your facts straight, makes you look a lot less pathetic then you do now. 


For all others..
Tiny fun fact; Drivers provided my Microsoft for the Amanero interface makes the interface run in asynchronous mode. Microsoft doesn't supply an AISO driver so AISO won't be available. Not a big deal as you shouldn't use AISO anyway when WASAPI is available. 

Currently in process to see if my device will still give lockup errors when using the Microsoft drivers.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 2, 2021)

Telin said:


> It's not illegal, it's just an old installation.
> Until 1997 grounding was not mandatory except for wet rooms like the bathroom. After 1997 grounding became mandatory in all rooms for new installations. Old installations (like mine) are not affected by that new rule, until major renovations happen. When that happens those new rules will also apply to the whole installation. Old installations are still fully in compliance with the rules and regulations as set in my country.
> (I got my electrician certification 20 years ago, not that it matters though)
> 
> ...


You must understand that I am stressed as I don't know whether you will try to use my trick with a ground wire, as I am worry about safety in that situation. *So please don't use this trick till you get 3-wire extension to your HiFi*. It is important, you must understand my situation.

I hear on the other thread that people are installing befa version of the Amanero firmware and complain on popups. It is just popups, in your case it is completely losing synchronisation, a much more serious case. However it can be related. Do you use default Amanero firmware (the first position on the table with oemtool117) or something else?

Looking forward to see how built-in MS UAC2.0 drivers behave. Firmware version on the Amanero is also critical. The latest beta is reported not good.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> You must understand that I am stressed as I don't know whether you will try to use my trick with a ground wire, as I am worry about safety in that situation. *So please don't use this trick till you get 3-wire extension to your HiFi*. It is important, you must understand my situation.


I to give you some peace of mind I ran a ground wire from the circuit breaker box groundingstrip to the walloutlet and replaced the ungrounded outlet with a grounded one.
So everything is safe and all... although my installation is now no longer NEN 1010 compliant  



sajunky said:


> I hear on the other thread that people are installing befa version of the Amanero firmware and complain on popups. It is just popups, in your case it is completely losing synchronisation, a much more serious case. However it can be related. Do you use default Amanero firmware (the first position on the table with oemtool117) or something else?


I loaded up the oemtool117 but how can you see what the current CPLD and CPU firmware is on the interface?
I just see a long pulldown menu with different firmwares to flash.



sajunky said:


> Looking forward to see how built-in MS UAC2.0 drivers behave. Firmware version on the Amanero is also critical. The latest beta is reported not good.


So far so good with the Microsoft drivers. Hard to troubleshoot this issue and tell if the Microsoft drivers fix it or not as the lockups occur very irregularly.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 3, 2021)

Telin said:


> I to give you some peace of mind I ran a ground wire from the circuit breaker box groundingstrip to the walloutlet and replaced the ungrounded outlet with a grounded one.
> So everything is safe and all... although my installation is now no longer NEN 1010 compliant
> 
> 
> ...


You can't see a current version, you can only flash from a tool. For Windows and MAC Kingwa recommend a default Amanero firmware (a first position on the table is default). However I am not sure whether it is fully UAC2.0 compatible (to work with a native Windows 10 drivers). A guide on this link for DI-20 use a beta firmware_2006be11, it also gives a link to the older Amanero drivers "combo384_drivers_w10_1062.rar", not the latest one. It probably is the best combination, but it doesn't say specifically it is good for R2R-11/NFB-11. It is why I flashed a default version. With a default version of firmware the latest driver package from the Amanero website should work the best.

Take a PC-board picture from A-GD website to identify shorting contact and then you can follow Readme.pdf instruction found in a folder you downloaded with a tool and follow the instruction. In a case where it says "Unplug the USB Cable and Replug it", replace it with "Turn a DAC power off for a moment and turn it on". It is because Amanero module needs to be reset, it doesn't happen on this DAC when unpluggin USB cable.


----------



## Telin

Did some testing and so far I came to the following results: (all testing done using WASAPI exclusive mode)

Amanero 1.067 drivers fails (8K bytes packages bulk transmission)
Device locks up completely after any amount of time (sometimes after only 10 minutes, sometimes after 1.5 hours)
Testing with ASIO mode give the same results

Amanero 1.062 drivers from Audio-GD website works (8K bytes packages bulk transmission)
I played a shuffled playlist continuously for 14 hours without any lock ups or errors, at this point I think I can call that "working".

Amanero Microsoft Windows provided drivers works (3K bytes packages asynchronous transmission)
I played a shuffled playlist continuously for 12 hours without any lock ups or errors, at this point like the others drivers I can call this "working"
As said before Microsoft doesn't provide an ASIO driver for the Amanero interface so that's not available. Perhaps it would work if you keep the Microsoft drivers and install the ASIO driver package from Amanero separately.. have not tested this and I'm not going to, I don't care for ASIO.

Microsoft Windows provided drivers for the Realtek ALC1220 codec optical out into the optical in of the Audio-GD NFB-11.38 works
Didn't expect any troubles with this option and non showed up, device ran without lock ups or errors for hours.
Pro: electrically isolated from the rest of the system.
Con: limited bandwidth, max  24/96 (which is more than enough for for the 2 channel PCM what I use it for, all my FLAC files are 16/44.1)
Con: Not sure if it's just my unit but the connector of the optical cable sits super loose in the socket on the Audio-GD, it's takes like no force at all to unplug the connector from the socket.


No idea what the difference(s) is/are between the generic 1.067 and the Audio-GD 1.062 drivers but there must be something as my unit at least is not happy with the 1.067 drivers at all.

I'm thinking about what interface to keep using, USB or optical. Both have something going for them.
At the moment I'm leaning towards the Amanero USB interface with the 1.062 drivers. Audio-GD unit comes with an "expensive" Amanero interface module so might as well use it. Also I have more confidence in the Audio-GD unit taking care of the clocks then the Realtek codec when using optical. 



sajunky said:


> You can't see a current version, you can only flash from a tool. For Windows and MAC Kingwa recommend a default Amanero firmware (a first position on the table is default). However I am not sure whether it is fully UAC2.0 compatible (to work with a native Windows 10 drivers). A guide on this link for DI-20 use a beta firmware_2006be11, it also gives a link to the older Amanero drivers "combo384_drivers_w10_1062.rar", not the latest one. It probably is the best combination, but it doesn't say specifically it is good for R2R-11/NFB-11. It is why I flashed a default version. With a default version of firmware the latest driver package from the Amanero website should work the best.
> 
> Take a PC-board picture from A-GD website to identify shorting contact and then you can follow Readme.pdf instruction found in a folder you downloaded a tool and follow the instruction. In a case where it says "Unplug the USB Cable and Replug it", replace it with "Turn a DAC power off for a moment and turn it on". It is because Amanero module needs to be reset, it doesn't happen on this DAC when unpluggin USB cable.


Thanks for the information
My unit seems to be working fine with the Audio-GD 1.062 drivers and the drivers provided by Windows. 
So at this point I'm not so comfortable flashing firmware as it is working now.. don't try to fix something that ain't broken


----------



## sajunky (Apr 3, 2021)

Thanks for a feedback. It is what is recommended on the Audio GD website works, they do testing of every new Amanero release, but it is not communicated properly with owners of a basic DAC like mine and yours. It is expected a new firmware (not beta) and a  drivers package soon. Hopefully it will be a successful release.

You noticed a lose optical connector. It is because a socket is recessed 2mm behind a thick wall and your plug moulding is little thicker than a cut in a wall, not going inside the socket properly deep enough. Check it out (some plugs are going in some other do not), but if you are going to use USB, it doesn't matter.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Apr 3, 2021)

Telin said:


> Did some testing and so far I came to the following results: (all testing done using WASAPI exclusive mode)
> 
> Amanero 1.067 drivers fails (8K bytes packages bulk transmission)
> Device locks up completely after any amount of time (sometimes after only 10 minutes, sometimes after 1.5 hours)
> ...



You obviously know more about USB input & drivers than I ever will--but I offer this observation regardless:

When I got my first DAC (a then praised delta/sigma design from Korea), I found its sound off-putting: bright, edgy, harmonically thin, all the digital nasties people talk about. I read that synchronous USB inputs were partly to blame, so picked up a SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity V-Link96) + pricey toslink cable to use instead of USB. That made a real sonic improvement, so I stayed with it.
Then I switched to a better sounding d/s DAC, the humble Peachtree Audio DAC iTx (which I still sometimes use). The iTx could decode 24 bit/192 kHz files, so I upgraded the converter to Musical Fidelity's V-Link192. I compared USB vs optical w/the iTx and found there was still a very slight advantage to optical. But I could easily hear that the asynchronous USB input board of the iTx (described as "galvanically isolated") was a clear upgrade over my 1st DAC.
~5 years ago I got my first NOS DAC, the Audio GD NOS 19. Again optical sounded better than USB with this DAC. I decided to fool around with coax and started out w/an inexpensive 1.5M Billy Jeans coax cable. That sounded better than optical and way better than digital.
Eventually I sprung for a more expensive silver coax cable some praised: Oyaide R-510 (1.3M). Well, damn! With this new coax cable and the NOS 19, I suddenly had by far the best digital I'd ever heard IMS. Much of the note dimensionality, natural musical flow, and weight in lower registers of excellent high-end audio was now present.
2 DACs later (Audio GD DAC-19; now MHDT Labs Orchid), I still find the sonics of the SPDIF converter + silver coax cable superior to USB.
I admit that the way Audio GD handles drivers is very off-putting. I had a hard time getting drivers that worked with both AGD DACs (the drivers AGD linked to didn't work at all), though once I got the DACs' USB working, they worked well.

I also found the whole firmware-update thing very intimidating w/Audio GD gear. I've read enough about this tricky process to know I'll never do it. BTW, I remain an Audio GD fanboy despite these issues--I like the "house sound" a lot (also have/had 2 AGD headphone amps).

One of the best things about coax is that it bypasses all the tricky which-DAC-driver-works-best issue you outline in your post. I just don't think about DAC drivers now.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 3, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> One of the best things about coax is that it bypasses all the tricky which-DAC-driver-works-best issue you outline in your post. I just don't think about DAC drivers now.


Coax connection is also a preferable for the upper range DACs by many, but those have a poweful FPGA chip with PLL/FIFO. R2R-11/NFB11 performance depend on a standard S/PDIF receiver chip WM8805, there is no further jitter removal. On the other side USB can sound right, when ground loops are not entering inside.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I'm starting to prefer AES/EBU and moving towards that. I like the locking connectors and it's relatively easy to make the cables.


----------



## Telin

Pharmaboy said:


> You obviously know more about USB input & drivers than I ever will--but I offer this observation regardless:
> 
> When I got my first DAC (a then praised delta/sigma design from Korea), I found its sound off-putting: bright, edgy, harmonically thin, all the digital nasties people talk about. I read that synchronous USB inputs were partly to blame, so picked up a SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity V-Link96) + pricey toslink cable to use instead of USB. That made a real sonic improvement, so I stayed with it.
> Then I switched to a better sounding d/s DAC, the humble Peachtree Audio DAC iTx (which I still sometimes use). The iTx could decode 24 bit/192 kHz files, so I upgraded the converter to Musical Fidelity's V-Link192. I compared USB vs optical w/the iTx and found there was still a very slight advantage to optical. But I could easily hear that the asynchronous USB input board of the iTx (described as "galvanically isolated") was a clear upgrade over my 1st DAC.
> ...


I'm not going into the rabbit hole of different interfaces and if one sounds better then the other. I will say that during my testing I could not hear any difference between USB input and optical toslink, I would not be able to tell the two apart in a blind test.
It appears that the Audio-GD  has only the most basic optical input interface without any PLL so I guess the optical output of the ALC1220 is clean enough... or I'm just deaf 😉



sajunky said:


> It is expected a new firmware (not beta) and a  drivers package soon. Hopefully it will be a successful release.


We'll see. 
New drivers or more for features then sonic improvement it seems. 
At least during my testing I never heard a sonic difference between different driver versions of both XMOS or Amanero driver packages.


sajunky said:


> You noticed a lose optical connector. It is because a socket is recessed 2mm behind a thick wall and your plug moulding is little thicker than a cut in a wall, not going inside the socket properly deep enough. Check it out (some plugs are going in some other do not), but if you are going to use USB, it doesn't matter.


Now that you mentioned it I see it. 
Bit of a weird design choice imho. I tried 3 cables I have at home and none fit properly in the socket of the Audio-GD.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 3, 2021)

Telin said:


> New drivers or more for features then sonic improvement it seems.
> At least during my testing I never heard a sonic difference between different driver versions of both XMOS or Amanero driver packages.


Honestly, I don't expect any sonic improvements. Amanero is already working in the optimum mode, completely different from XMOS, but in both cases the on-board clock is used for speed synchronisation (Not PC clock as a master, it would be not good). A fact that you don't hear a difference is a proof. With XMOS there will be no feedback about dropped frames when error is detected, with Amanero you may see errors reported back (set a filter in a sniffer program to report only such cases) and even requests for retransmissions if timing allows. Be aware that transmission errors are very rare. On the other side if you load USB hub heavily, Amanero may start dropping frames, while XMOS has a reserved a portion of USB bandwith for all duration of a transfer. This the only difference between these two modes, not in SQ.

Amanero had very stable drivers, everything has changed when MS implemented (very poorly on the beginning) UAC 2.0 native drivers. They had to re-write the entire USB driver stack. MS implementation was not matching a Linux, it started to be very messy. As MS implementation is now more mature, I do expect integration of the UAC 2.0 firmware for Windows and Linux and more stability.

I see you are working hard, I was surprised with results, so I am sure you will not stop on this. You can work on SQ improvements in number of ways. The simplest way is to put ferrite clamps on the USB cable. It will increase impedance for common mode noise and redirect ground loops between devices to a power supply cable. My original cable has a molded one on the computer side, you can also put another one on the DAC side. To see effect immediately, you need to cycle a power of a DAC. It seems is doing some ladder recalibration during powering on. (EDIT: it is for R2R-11). It is reported that some more expensive double shielded cables give better SQ, but I cannot afford audiophile cables, didn't try it. Get a cable as short as your connection require.

There is also a trick with removing contact of +5V pin on the Type A connector. Amanero module on the Audio GD DAC do not use USB power, removing this connection is beneficial. You can put electric tape on the 5Vpin.

Induction based ground loops are proportional to the area between cables. You will reduce this area by placing power cables together (for PC+monitor and a DAC). As long a power outlet has a ground pin, you can use a trick with a wire.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> Honestly, I don't expect any sonic improvements. Amanero is already working in the optimum mode, completely different from XMOS, but in both cases the on-board clock is used for speed synchronisation (Not PC clock as a master, it would be not good). A fact that you don't hear a difference is a proof. With XMOS there will be no feedback about dropped frames when error is detected, with Amanero you may see errors reported back (set a filter in a sniffer program to report only such cases) and even requests for retransmissions if timing allows. Be aware that transmission errors are very rare. On the other side if you load USB hub heavily, Amanero may start dropping frames, while XMOS has a reserved a portion of USB bandwith for all duration of a transfer. This the only difference between these two modes, not in SQ.


Interesting information, thanks for sharing!



sajunky said:


> I see you are working hard, I was surprised with results, so I am sure you will not stop on this. You can work on SQ improvements in number of ways. The simplest way is to put ferrite clamps on the USB cable. It will increase impedance for common mode noise and redirect ground loops between devices to a power supply cable. My original cable has a molded one on the computer side, you can also put another one on the DAC side. To see effect immediately, you need to cycle a power of a DAC. It seems is doing some ladder recalibration during powering on. (EDIT: it is for R2R-11). It is reported that some more expensive double shielded cables give better SQ, but I cannot afford audiophile cables, didn't try it. Get a cable as short as your connection require.


I will look into the ferrite clamps. Not very expensive so I'm willing to give it a try, worst that can happen is that it doesn't do anything.  
I already have a double shielded USB cable, AudioQuest Forest USB cable. Didn't buy it myself, just something I got from a colleague who went the optical route and had no use for it anymore. Everyone must decide for themselves but personally I don't believe in (super) expensive USB cables. A *good* cable does not sound any worse than a >1000 euro one IMHO.



sajunky said:


> There is also a trick with removing contact of +5V pin on the Type A connector. Amanero module on the Audio GD DAC do not use USB power, removing this connection is beneficial. You can put electric tape on the 5Vpin.


I have a cleaner solution..
I connected my Audio-GD to the USB DAC port on my motherboard. I can completely turn off the 5V power on this port in the BIOS settings of my motherboard. I tested this with a multimeter and there is indeed no power on this USB port anymore.
Have to say honestly that I don't hear any difference in the SQ with or without the 5V enabled on the USB port.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 4, 2021)

Telin said:


> I have a cleaner solution..
> I connected my Audio-GD to the USB DAC port on my motherboard. I can completely turn off the 5V power on this port in the BIOS settings of my motherboard. I tested this with a multimeter and there is indeed no power on this USB port anymore.
> Have to say honestly that I don't hear any difference in the SQ with or without the 5V enabled on the USB port.


This is ..... probably an option for turning off power when computer off, or switching off USB_PD option. Check it out, if in doubt, post a photo or a link to the user manual.

As I wrote before, I didn't try audiophile type USB cable, but if I had such power cable, I would certainly try it.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> This is ..... probably an option for turning off power when computer off, or switching off USB_PD option. Check it out, if in doubt, post a photo or a link to the user manual.


Manual

Page 98
Read for yourself. As I said it checked it with a multimeter and it does what it says it does, it cuts the 5v power from the USB port.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 5, 2021)

Telin said:


> Manual
> 
> Page 98
> Read for yourself. As I said it checked it with a multimeter and it does what it says it does, it cuts the 5v power from the USB port.


Mea culpa. I can't believe!

BTW, I found something interesting on your mobo: 2x USB 2.0 headers. Do you use it? 
I suggest to try. I have computer with only USB 3.0 ports, all ports are very noisy. I use USB 2.0 hub with this computer, it sounds better. Find a hub with multi transaction translator, it will allow to plug other devices without a worry of dropping speed of a hub. Or use any 2.0 hub with only a DAC connected.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> Mea culpa. I can't believe!
> 
> BTW, I found something interesting on your mobo: 2x USB 2.0 headers. Do you use it?
> I suggest to try. I have computer with only USB 3.0 ports, all ports are very noisy. I use USB 2.0 hub with this computer, it sounds better. Find a hub with multi transaction translator, it will allow to plug other devices without a worry of dropping a speed of a hub. Or use any 2.0 hub with only a DAC connected.


I used the USB 2.0 headers to connect the front USB 2.0 ports from my case.
Might test it out later, headers are blocked by the graphics card which is connected to the other graphics card with a hard bridge.. I know SLI is pretty much dead in 2021 but can't get myself to rebuild my entire system while is still doing what I need it for.


----------



## Telin

So after about 40 minutes of playback my unit locked up again using the Audio-GD 1.062 drivers 
No idea how it is possible that it works for 12+ hours one day and fails within an hour the next...

Now running the Microsoft Windows supplied Amanero drivers and see how that goes. 
These drivers actually make the transfer go in smaller packages and different method so it might work.... hopefully.

If not I'm stuck with optical I guess. 
Not the end of the world but the Amanero interface should be technical superior so would've preferred to use that. 

I'll report back how it goes.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Telin said:


> So after about 40 minutes of playback my unit locked up again using the Audio-GD 1.062 drivers
> No idea how it is possible that it works for 12+ hours one day and fails within an hour the next...
> 
> Now running the Microsoft Windows supplied Amanero drivers and see how that goes.
> ...



The only drivers I could get to work on my 2 AGD DACs were the drivers on the Amanero website--not the drivers linked on the Audio GD website.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 5, 2021)

Beware of having multiple port drivers! This is what Kingwa wrote to me one year ago:


> I think  the driver issue may your computer install multiple driver but computer may not recognize correct. You may update the USB ports driver of your computer to try.
> Or update the Amanero frimware to this version: CPLD_for_1080"



This is a top position on the table. Download oemtool117 from the Amanero website, not A-GD. It will flash with all defaults, there is no need to fiddle with combo boxes.

I had blue screen issues. Removed duplicate drivers, everything started working fine. The same happened now when playing with different drivers, this time no blue screen, but port lockups.

This is what should be done on Windows 7:

1. Uninstall ASIO driver and Amanero driver in Control Panel.
2. Go to the Device Manager. Expand "Devices by connection".
3.  If Amanero driver is seen healthly, you have multiple port drivers!
4 Go to the Amanero properties and uninstall driver. *Select an option to delete from a disk*.
4. Cycle power on a DAC. If a healthly Amanero device comes back, there is another port driver! Repeat #4.
5. When device comes up unrecognised, OS is ready reinstall Amanero drivers.

I expect Windows 10 will complicate things by installing built in UAC 2.0 drivers. I don't have updated Win10, I can't verify.

For me there is no problem with the drivers. On Win7 1.062 package from A-GD website install a version 1.0.57, the same (I think) the latest driver from Amanero website. On Win10 I have installed the latest drivers from Amanero website.


----------



## Telin

I've been extremely busy with work so not much time to spend on this issue. 

Windows 10 is making it more complicated as it will (re)install the UAC drivers as soon as you uninstall the Amanero. I will also try to dig around in the device manager to remove it that way, as much as Windows 10 allows me that is. 

As said have not spend a lot of time with the Audio-GD lately but the Windows UAC drivers seem to work fine..... for now at least...
Although it is kinda "itching" me that it's not running with the Amanero drivers which should technically be the best..

What would be the preferred (best) option if the Amanero driver continue not to be an option on my system?

1. USB connection using the Windows UAC 2.0 drivers
2. Optical (Toslink) connection using the Windows drivers


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> 1. USB connection using the Windows UAC 2.0 drivers
> 2. Optical (Toslink) connection using the Windows drivers


It is reported that Coax can give better SQ that USB, nut sure about optical, it is always more jittery than coax.
Test it yourself what works the best in your setup and report back.


----------



## Telin

I'll keep testing and trouble shooting whenever I find the time. 

Truth been told I am a bit annoyed with the whole situation though. One of the main reasons for me to go for an external DAC/AMP was because I grew tired of the instability and other issues that comes with drivers for internal soundcards. 
Yet I still find myself testing and trouble shooting drivers now with an external DAC/AMP


----------



## Dailydrive (Apr 20, 2021)

I'm new to this forum
Eyed a pre-loved R2R11, but Kingwa of ADG confirm the set is pre-2019 version with no firmware update to reduce DSD noise of -14DB (as in their website)
My question, esp those who used to own/still owned the earlier R2R11, if the popping and hiss a minor (or never experienced before) or major concern ?
And if the firmware update eliminate the problem?  (http://www.audio-gd.com/R2Rupdate2.htm)
I had & love the NBF11.38 but wanted to experience R2R without spending a fortune.

Advise is appreciated


----------



## gimmeheadroom

I think the firmware update is non-trivial on the R2R-11 but I can't remember for sure. Sorry, I have the later model so I can't answer about the noise issue.


----------



## Dailydrive

Thanks & appreciate your feedback

I'm on the fence betw a used set and new order from AGD, with saving of about half with pre2019 set.

If getting new maybe a preloved R8 with little more topup$ be better option? R8 size a little daunting though, as prefer to use for desktop.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 20, 2021)

Dailydrive said:


> I'm new to this forum
> Eyed a pre-loved R2R11, but Kingwa of ADG confirm the set is pre-2019 version with no DSD noise reduction of -14DB (as in their website)
> My question, esp those who used to own/still owned the earlier R2R11, if the popping and hiss a minor (or never experienced before) or major concern ?
> And if the firmware update eliminate the problem?  (http://www.audio-gd.com/R2Rupdate2.htm)
> ...


When I received a second-hand R2R-11 one year ago, it was pre-2019 version. I asked Kingwa whether I should upgrade DA-8 firmware. The answer was clear: if I don't care about DSD playback, I should not upgrade. It is in line with user feedback in the R2R-11 section that a new firmware reduce, but did not eliminate clicks completely.

In my experience DSD noise only come out in a special places, only on some recordings when a complex music suddenly stops and continue feeding a DAC with digital zeros, a noise suddenly comes out after a second. If your volume is turned to a maximum, you can hear it. During a normal playback it is unnoticeable. Interesting is a fact that a noise completely disappears when a new track begins. Yes, I tried on a very silent tracks, normally there is no noise during playback. It appears suddenly during a digital silence, always in the same places and disappears completely when music begin playing again.

As for a clicks, there are present, noticeable, but not a disturbing volume, IHMO. The strongest clicks are happening when switching from DSD to PCM. I do not hesitate to fully recommend the old R2R-11, it is a real gem, there is nothing competetive for a price.


----------



## Dailydrive

That's informative ! 
My ears doesn't allows me to listen at full vol or my ears will bleed. In fact i don't even set the jumper (on my 11.38) to variable output option when connect to my amp. 

Now I can bid with confidence with your feedback & much appreciated 😀


----------



## sajunky (Apr 26, 2021)

This is a proposal for USB fix on early NFB11/R2R-11, possibly later models as well.​
*Symptoms* (from less noticed to more serious):
- Warming up during first 30 minutes do not open a sound.
- Unstable sound quality, varying from one system to another.
- Interrupted playback for half second (in WASAPI Event mode)  or generating periodic artifacts (in WASAPI push mode).
- Playback stops, driver becomes irresponsive. Pressing "Stop" button on the player do reset a driver, but reaction comes out delayed after 3 seconds.
- Driver hang-up during playback. Unplugging USB plug doesn't help, it require a cycle power on a DAC.

The last one is a @Telin case. All other I did experience myself.

*Diagnosis*:
Power off a DAC and unplug power cord. Unplug USB cable. Use a multimeter and measure resistance between body of USB connector and a chassis (screw heads). If resistance is 0, and it is stable (pushing a socket body all sides do not break connection), then it doesn't need further attention. No contact or intermittent contact is probably giving all trouble.

*Cause*: Termination of USB shield (which is connected to a case of USB connector) on the Amanero Combo384 module is insufficient and require additional grounding USB socket to a chassis.

Look at the photo _(attached "socket.jpg")_, In my case it normally do not make contact with chassis, you can even see a light coming through. When attaching a plug it can make a contact, depends on the positioning of the cable. A chassis is not cleaned in the place from a black paint, so there is no indication what is a design preference: to make a contact or prevent it happen. It can be one of a two, intermittent contact is not good. I made a tests and found that a lack of the contact do not help, but making a good contact does.

*Fix*:
1. Open top cover and remove two screws holding Amanero module.
2. Scratch a black paint in the place where a mounting bolt is touching chassis _(photo "inside.jpg")_. A flat screwdriver can be used, I used a similar bolt left from disassembly of a PC motherboard _(photo "bolt.jpg")_, rotaring it in a hole, result looks nice.
3. Solder a wire between socket assembly point and a bolt _(photo "patched.jpg")_. Solder a wire in some distance to a bolt to not let bolt to relocate.
4. Put everything back.


----------



## Dailydrive (Apr 26, 2021)

Thank you for sharing a detailed fix to potential usb connection problem, a reference should my 11.38 run into problem. Still considering R11, & normally I'll take some months to think, so at the end of 2-3 months if I'm still looking at it, I'll know for certain this is the set I had considered thoroughly
So far been enjoying my 11.38 with sr1a powered thru forte model 6, thus I know 9038 has the details & coupled w AGD knowhow on a revealing can it's good enuff for me w/o spending too much further.
The delta sigma vs r2r vs delta tube vs tube r2r debate will run within me to satisfy a curiosity, & after some months either this thirst is quenched or this curiosity will died a natural death.
Or maybe I'll just do a litte contribution to the needy instead, in view of the deperate situation in India with conservative est of 1m death by 1 Aug, realistic est set at 3m by same date. Real sad.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Dailydrive said:


> Thank you for sharing a detailed fix to potential usb problem, a reference should my 11.38 run into problem. Still considering R11, & normally I'll take some months to think, so at the end of 2-3 months if I'm still looking at it, I'll know for certain this is the set I had considered thoroughly
> So far been enjoying my 11.38 with sr1a powered thru forte model 6, thus I know 9038 has the details & coupled w AGD knowhow on a revealing can it's good enuff for me w/o spending too much further.
> The delta sigma vs r2r vs delta tube vs tube r2r debate will run within me to satisfy a curiosity, & after some months either this thirst is quenched or this curiosity has died a natural death.
> Or maybe I'll just do a litte contribution to the needy instead, in view of the deperate situation in India with conservative est of 1m death by 1 Aug, realistic est set at 3m by same date. Real sad.


Helping other people...more important right now than ever


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> This is a proposal for USB fix on early NFB11/R2R-11, possibly later models as well.​
> *Symptoms* (from less noticed to more serious):
> - Warming up during first 30 minutes do not open a sound.
> - Unstable sound quality, varying from one system to another.
> ...


Interesting...
I Probably give this a go as it is super simple to do and can't break what's already broken... just have to find out where on earth I left my soldering iron..


----------



## sajunky (Apr 27, 2021)

Dailydrive said:


> Thank you for sharing a detailed fix to potential usb connection problem, a reference should my 11.38 run into problem. Still considering R11, & normally I'll take some months to think, so at the end of 2-3 months if I'm still looking at it, I'll know for certain this is the set I had considered thoroughly


My pleasure, it is generous, but I would rather like to hear response from those who tried a fix.

BTW, R2R-11 is discountinued, you don't have a time to think.


----------



## sajunky (Apr 27, 2021)

Telin said:


> Interesting...
> I Probably give this a go as it is super simple to do and can't break what's already broken... just have to find out where on earth I left my soldering iron..


You can insert a workshop knife in a gap, forcing socket to make contact, measure resistance whether is stable and try it while looking for a soldering iron on earth. 

On a second thought, where on earth you can find a workshop knife?


----------



## ProLoL

I highly recommend using a stock R2R11 with ISO regen, so good!


----------



## sajunky (Apr 27, 2021)

So far I am satisfied with a mod and a SQ, but I am thinking of replacing clock oscilators with Crystek CCHD-575. Is not easy job, better to have SMD reworking station. Alternatively a new Amanero board can be ordered from Audio GD partners with Crystek clocks on-board. It is a plug-in replacement, no soldering. Following a suggestion from @FredA


----------



## ProLoL

I got an extra ISO regen that I accidently broke it's output socket and if someone want to purchase it in good price with it's internal Crystek CCHD-575 and other components, messege me.


----------



## Pharmaboy

sajunky said:


> BTW, R2R-11 is discountinued, you don't have a time to think.



I don't think it's discontinued. Just checked Audio GD's website: still available F.S. And not listed under "Discontinued Products" on the site.

It's also currently F.S. on Magna HiFi's EU website:
https://magnahifi.com/audio-gd-r2r1...dder-dac-pcm-dxd-dsd-pre-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> I don't think it's discontinued. Just checked Audio GD's website: still available F.S. And not listed under "Discontinued Products" on the site.
> 
> It's also currently F.S. on Magna HiFi's EU website:
> https://magnahifi.com/audio-gd-r2r1...dder-dac-pcm-dxd-dsd-pre-headphone-amplifier/


There is a note on the front page of Audio-gd in not so clear English which seems to suggest the current production is the "last batch" due to 500% cost increases in CPLDs.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Apr 27, 2021)

gimmeheadroom said:


> There is a note on the front page of Audio-gd in not so clear English which seems to suggest the current production is the "last batch" due to 500% cost increases in CPLDs.



Geez...that note is only in 25 pt. RED Arial font. No wonder I missed it!

Seriously, I've always been curious about this little NOS unit. May have to pick one up "just because"

(just emailed AGD for a quote)


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Geez...that note is only in 25 pt. RED Arial font. No wonder I missed it!
> 
> Seriously, I've always been curious about this little NOS unit. May have to pick one up "just because"
> 
> (just emailed AGD for a quote)


Well I always say about the RME ADI-2 FS DAC that it's the best 1000 euros/dollars anybody will spend on audio.

I'll go on record and say the R2R-11 is the best $348 anybody will ever spend on audio. It's just an amazing dacamp. It has a great sound as a DAC, much beyond its price point. And the headamp is surprisingly capable. It has enough voltage to make Beyers sound good.

I suggest asking Kingwa to set the fixed output jumper for you. You will still have the variable output option, but also a fixed option to drive a preamp or integrated amp. Otherwise, the fixed output switch position is a dead-pedal to protect against tyros blowing their powered speakers.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well I always say about the RME ADI-2 FS DAC that it's the best 1000 euros/dollars anybody will spend on audio.
> 
> I'll go on record and say the R2R-11 is the best $348 anybody will ever spend on audio. It's just an amazing dacamp. It has a great sound as a DAC, much beyond its price point. And the headamp is surprisingly capable. It has enough voltage to make Beyers sound good.
> 
> I suggest asking Kingwa to set the fixed output jumper for you. You will still have the variable output option, but also a fixed option to drive a preamp or integrated amp. Otherwise, the fixed output switch position is a dead-pedal to protect against tyros blowing their powered speakers.



Your final paragraph confuses me (it's me, not you...everything confuses me). Do you mean I should ask him to set the fixed output jumper so it's default? And then if I wanted, I could open the case & instead select variable output jumper?

Related questions: when one connects an interconnect to the "DAC out" RCA jacks on the back, then connects the IC to amp/speakers:

Does the headphone output still work at all?
Or is it one of those deals where if a headphone jack is plugged in, the RCA outputs are muted; but if no HP, RCA outputs are live?
Answers will help me use this in my rather complex systems here in the homely office...


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 27, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> Your final paragraph confuses me (it's me, not you...everything confuses me). Do you mean I should ask him to set the fixed output jumper so it's default? And then if I wanted, I could open the case & instead select variable output jumper?


It's probably both of us. If you take a look at the front panel pic here http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/N112801.jpg there is a switch labelled HP / Variable / Fixed

This is not exactly intuitive, but... if you ask for the jumper to be set to fixed then Variable and Fixed both work as you would expect. The surprising default is Fixed = Variable, that is to avoid the situation that when the tyro puts it on Fixed, it blew up his speakers even though the volume knob was all the way down.. waaaaah, you broke my hifi!

The jumper is glued in place and the pics are not exactly high res, so to avoid mess, it's better if Kingwa does it before shipping.



Pharmaboy said:


> Related questions: when one connects an interconnect to the "DAC out" RCA jacks on the back, then connects the IC to amp/speakers:
> 
> Does the headphone output still work at all?


It's controlled by that switch labelled HP / Variable / Fixed. It does not depend on whether anything is connected to the RCA jacks or headphone jack, rather, the switch position on the front panel wins.



Pharmaboy said:


> Or is it one of those deals where if a headphone jack is plugged in, the RCA outputs are muted; but if no HP, RCA outputs are live?


No, controlled by the switch alone.  

By the way the Gain switch works even in fixed output mode, which is kinda wonderful. Good stuff, Kingwa gets all the details right. Totally unsurprising device behavior, as long as the fixed jumper is set.

Edited many times due to my work schedule / lack of sleep / plentiful Czech beer.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Apr 27, 2021)

ok done editing for now 

I lied but not on purpose. And I'm not updating the previous post which I edited 20 times.

Wanted to add, look at the switch layout... he has HP and Variable next to each other. There is no excuse for selecting Fixed unless you mean it.

Just pure UI genius. If you take a look, so much thought went into these devices.. just wow.


----------



## sajunky

There is no mysteries. Variable output is equal the Fixed when a pot position is in the middle. For the best quality I keep variable output around this area, so there is no danger switching to the fixed and get tweaters blown. Gain switch changes a volume on any active output (including fixed), it helps to keep a volume in the middle, as targeted.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> There is no mysteries. Variable output is equal the Fixed when a pot position is in the middle. For the best quality I keep variable output around this area, so there is no danger switching to the fixed and get tweaters blown. Gain switch changes a volume on any active output (including fixed), it helps to keep a volume in the middle, as targeted.


I'm not talking about sensible people like you @sajunky 

That's why I wrote tyros


----------



## Dailydrive

sajunky said:


> My pleasure, it is generous, but I would rather like to hear response from those who tried a fix.
> 
> BTW, R2R-11 is discountinued, you don't have a time to think.


Looking towards a used set locally. Only reason if I order new from AGD is to fix with i2s. Will see how it goes


----------



## Dailydrive (Apr 27, 2021)

sajunky said:


> Alternatively a new Amanero board can be ordered from Audio GD partners with Crystek clocks on-board. It is a plug-in replacement, no soldering. Following a suggestion from @FredA


Sorry, is this a upgrade option from AGD from their standard Amanero combo 384 ?
I didn't see the link in AGD website. Could direct me? Thank you 
And what's the benefit vs ISOgen & standard Amanero?


----------



## sajunky

Dailydrive said:


> Sorry, is this a upgrade option from AGD from their standard Amanero combo 384 ?
> I didn't see the link in AGD website. Could direct me? Thank you


I wrote: "Alternatively a new Amanero board can be ordered from Audio GD *partners* with ..."


----------



## Dailydrive

sajunky said:


> I wrote: "Alternatively a new Amanero board can be ordered from Audio GD *partners* with ..."


oic ...in a rush to work & didn’t read properly.
does this partners‘ arrangement means it can be send to AGD for assembly when order for new r11?


----------



## sajunky

My R2R-11 after a fix is running now at a full performance. It took two days to settle down. Similar as it was before on the old laptop power supply. 



Dailydrive said:


> oic ...in a rush to work & didn’t read properly.
> does this partners‘ arrangement means it can be send to AGD for assembly when order for new r11?


Not, it would be to complicated. You can order a new Amanero module for your DAC with Crystek clock oscilators installed and replace the orignal one yourself. This is online offer. If you are afraid of such operation, speak to them that you would like to send a DAC to them for an upgrade.


----------



## Dailydrive

Thank you and appreciate the link and explanation.  if it's as simple like inserting a SSD into its holding slot, I would think it's an upgrade i can try on my 11.38 first before getting the R2R11.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> ​
> *Diagnosis*:
> Power off a DAC and unplug power cord. Unplug USB cable. Use a multimeter and measure resistance between body of USB connector and a chassis (screw heads). If resistance is 0, and it is stable (pushing a socket body all sides do not break connection), then it doesn't need further attention. No contact or intermittent contact is probably giving all trouble.



Measured my unit and I get a good solid connection between the body of the USB connector and the chassis (also measured directly to the ground pin of the PSU) with a resistance of about 22 mΩ.
Therefor I don't have high hopes the fix will do anything for my problem but I might pull out my solder iron nonetheless eventually when I have some spare time.


----------



## Telin

Dailydrive said:


> Thank you and appreciate the link and explanation.  if it's as simple like inserting a SSD into its holding slot, I would think it's an upgrade i can try on my 11.38 first before getting the R2R11.


Can't tell from the Magna Hifi or Audiophonics product page if the Amanero board comes with the ribbon/interface cable soldered on.
It is a simple unscrew 2 screws and detach the cable connector from your Audio-GD unit and replace it with the new board if the Amanero board comes indeed with the cable, shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.

If they sell just the bare Amanero board... well then you're in for a bit of a challenge.
In my unit at least (see picture below) the cable is soldered *and glued *to the Amanero board. I have not tried, and i will not try, but that glue might be quite the pain in the **** to remove when desoldering the ribbon/interface cable. Without the glue desoldering the cable and resoldering it to the new board is still a bit more involving but nothing really complicated or difficult (mind the orientation though).

I would shoot Rob from Magna Hifi a message with the question if the Amanero boards they sell comes with the interface cable or not. Rob is a nice guy and usually replies pretty fast to questions. You might even get them to pre-solder the interface cable on the Amanero board if it doesn't come with it by default.
Else it will depend on your skills with the soldering iron and how much you really want to replace the Amanero board.


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> Can't tell from the Magna Hifi or Audiophonics product page if the Amanero board comes with the ribbon/interface cable soldered on.
> It is a simple unscrew 2 screws and detach the cable connector from your Audio-GD unit and replace it with the new board if the Amanero board comes indeed with the cable, shouldn't take more than 5 minutes.
> 
> If they sell just the bare Amanero board... well then you're in for a bit of a challenge.
> ...


^^^This.

When you speak to a Magna HiFi, don't forget to point out for which DAC model is a replacement. On the other thread @FredA wrote that for different DACs pinout of the connector can be different.


----------



## Dailydrive

Telin said:


> they sell just the bare Amanero board... well then you're in for a bit of a challenge.
> In my unit at least (see picture below) the cable is soldered *and glued *to the Amanero board. I have not tried, and i will not try, but that glue might be quite the pain in the **** to remove when desoldering the ribbon/interface cable. Without the glue desoldering the cable and resoldering it to the new board is still a bit more involving but nothing really complicated or difficult (mind the orientation though).
> ...
> .... else it will depend on your skills with the soldering iron and how much you really want to replace the Amanero board.


Hope it's not too complicate. Foolish me to think it's just a plug & play.
If it's just a marginal improvement with this new board, maybe I'll just make do with orignal. Lazy me. 
maybe I'll look at other used NOS R2R DAC Preamp like Metrum Jade. The preloved R11 I'm eyeing pass thru a few ownerships (it's serial no gives the game away) which I have concerns. Maybe just bite the bullet & get new, although not sure if R2r11 is something I will like, as I read NOS is an acquired taste to appreciate the musicality it brings.


----------



## sajunky (May 1, 2021)

Dailydrive said:


> Hope it's not too complicate. Foolish me to think it's just a plug & play.
> If it's just a marginal improvement with this new board, maybe I'll just make do with orignal. Lazy me.
> maybe I'll look at other used NOS R2R DAC Preamp like Metrum Jade. The preloved R11 I'm eyeing pass thru a few ownerships (it's serial no gives the game away) which I have concerns. Maybe just bite the bullet & get new, although not sure if R2r11 is something I will like, as I read NOS is an acquired taste to appreciate the musicality it brings.


A ribbon cable is soldered and glued around wires on the Amanero module, but on the other side there is a socket which just plugs into a motherboard. It is why it is plug & play. Photo attached by the @Telin confirm it (a white 6-contact socket). Here is a photo inside of my R2R-11, you will notice a 5-contact socket, which means a replacement is only plug & play when ordered for your DAC model. To unplug you have to release latches on both sides of the socket frame (pulling out from inside in a place a frame opens). A second photo shows location of the two latches, it is not obvious when looking at a mated parts.

If you look carefully at a photo of my socket (it is early model), you will notice a yellow glue around a socket, You need to use a workshop knife to cut a glue first, otherwise it won't unplug easy. It is why you heard complains about glued sockets.


----------



## Dailydrive

Should I get new from AGD, my instructions to kingwa would be : "do not glue the socket to the motherboard" 😊


----------



## sajunky (May 1, 2021)

Dailydrive said:


> Should I get new from AGD, my instructions to kingwa would be : "do not glue the socket to the motherboard" 😊


Funny, but:
1. Socket is always glued (soldered) to a motherboard. It is a plug that shouldn't. 
2. Only early models come with glued plugs and (worse) jumpers.  The one on the @Telin motherboard is not glued (check on the photo).


----------



## Dailydrive

May I know the sonic differences, if any, between the 2 Amanero boards?


----------



## Telin

So I had a little chat with Rob from Magna Hifi..

First of all @Dailydrive according to Rob the Amanero board @sajunky linked to is the same that comes with the NFB-11.38 / R2R11 by default. So no point in buying the Amanero board just to replace it with the same one. Upgrade path might be to purchase the isolator add-on combination but then the board won't fit into the chassis of the NFB-11.38 / R2R11 anymore.

That being said Rob did say that it is no problem to pre-solder the interface cable to the Amanero board on request when supplied with clear picture of the motherboard connector so they can solder the interface cable in the correct pin lay-out, which seems to differ per model.


----------



## Dailydrive (May 4, 2021)

Thank you Telin and appreciate your check with MagnaHifi. I had the impression that the link Sajunky provide was for Amanero module with Crystek CCHD-575 clock (maybe I misread him again), while AGD Amanero 384 module on R11 (& NFB 11.38? ) is applied with C33xx clocks....perhaps R2R11 as a pure NOS design DAC is not sensitivity to the jitter, and while upgrading the clocks on the Amanero should improve on sound but the different is not large as OS DAC, as I understood from Mr Kingwa.


----------



## Telin

Dailydrive said:


> Thank you Telin and appreciate your check with MagnaHifi. I had the impression that the link Sajunky provide was for Amanero module with Crystek CCHD-575 clock (maybe I misread him again), while AGD Amanero 384 module on R11 (& NFB 11.38? ) is applied with C33xx clocks....perhaps R2R11 as a pure NOS design DAC is not sensitivity to the jitter, and while upgrading the clocks on the Amanero should improve on sound but the different is not large as OS DAC, as I understood from Mr Kingwa.


I honestly don't know, I'm just the messenger here that passes through what Rob said to me. 

You might want to contact then directly yourself if you want to clear things up.


----------



## sajunky (May 4, 2021)

Dailydrive said:


> Thank you Telin and appreciate your check with MagnaHifi. I had the impression that the link Sajunky provide was for Amanero module with Crystek CCHD-575 clock (maybe I misread him again), while AGD Amanero 384 module on R11 (& NFB 11.38? ) is applied with C33xx clocks....perhaps R2R11 as a pure NOS design DAC is not sensitivity to the jitter, and while upgrading the clocks on the Amanero should improve on sound but the different is not large as OS DAC, as I understood from Mr Kingwa.


C33 series is not low phase noise type, website says "2 Low Phase Noise Crystek 24.5760Mhz & 22.5792Mhz". I don't know other low phase noise Crystek HCMOS in the 7x5mm package. On the other side a photo shows a standard type from SCTF, similar are found on my Amanero board. It is conflicting.

A photo Telin posted shows one Accusilicon oscilator in DIP-14 package on the main board, it could be a low phase version Kingwa use in a higher priced DACs.  Oscilators on the Amanero board cannot be identified due to the reflection. @Telin, can you post a photo of oscilators? It can be true that DS DACs are supplied with low phase noise oscilators.

It looks like that we have to enquire individually for our DAC model. I didn't do, as I am not ready to place an order yet.


----------



## Dailydrive (May 4, 2021)

Er..., not self depreciating but that's too technical to a simpleton me which I'll not bug Mr Kingwa with because I don't even understand the question itself to put across to him. 😁


----------



## Dailydrive (May 4, 2021)

Telin said:


> I honestly don't know, I'm just the messenger here that passes through what Rob said to me.
> 
> You might want to contact then directly yourself if you want to clear things up.


Roger that although I have not decide but keep open mind, including other makes of NOS R2R, or juz help those affected by commie virus.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Well, nearly 2 weeks after my 1st email to Audio GD re price to ship a new R2 11, and a follow up email 3 days ago -- no reply. 

I can only guess they no longer have stock and are ignoring emails like mine...? If that's the issue, it's not great customer service, particularly as I told them I own or owned 4 AGD products & am a believer in their gear.


----------



## ProLoL

I haven't been getting an answer from them in the past months.. wanted to purchase something but oh well..


----------



## Telin

ProLoL said:


> I haven't been getting an answer from them in the past months.. wanted to purchase something but oh well..


There are official Audio-GD dealers of you really want to purchase something...


----------



## Pharmaboy

Telin said:


> There are official Audio-GD dealers of you really want to purchase something...


Just checked Magna HiFi, from whom I bought 2 past AGD DACs. The R2R 11 is out of stock. It's not listed as out of stock on Audio GD's website--but the distinction means little if they won't respond to repeated emails (meaning I can't buy one from them).

If it was in stock at Magna HiFi, their price of 348 Euros is ~$75 over AGD's USD price of $350 (not incl. shipping), a 15% bump. I had 2 great experiences buying from Magna HiFi, but that's a steep fee for the convenience of dealing w/them vs Audio GD.


----------



## ProLoL

Telin said:


> There are official Audio-GD dealers of you really want to purchase something...



I've purchased 3 R2R11's and 1 DI20 + their power cable which feeds my Ifi powerstation directly from their website. Purchasing via magnaHifi is nothing but extra money to pay.


----------



## sajunky (May 7, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> If it was in stock at Magna HiFi, their price of 348 Euros is ~$75 over AGD's USD price of $350 (not incl. shipping), a 15% bump. I had 2 great experiences buying from Magna HiFi, but that's a steep fee for the convenience of dealing w/them vs Audio GD.


Last time I checked it was EU348 *VAT inclusive*. There is a toggle switch on the top to show a value excluding VAT. 

R2R-11 will be a collectors item soon. You can get one on Aliexpress between $450 and $750, from three sellers.  Someone clever bought the entire stock shortly before the announcement. And I told you a month before that the next victim after NFB-1AMP would be R2R-11.


----------



## Telin

ProLoL said:


> I've purchased 3 R2R11's and 1 DI20 + their power cable which feeds my Ifi powerstation directly from their website. Purchasing via magnaHifi is nothing but extra money to pay.


Depends where you live.
I live in the EU and then buying from Magna costs just as much as buying from Audio-GD directly. Buying from Magna is the all-in price, don't have to pay import fees, customs fees and lot of shipping costs. As a bonus I'm protected by the EU laws and I can just send the unit back for a full refund without any additional costs.
Then I have not even started about warranty and RMA...


----------



## ProLoL (May 8, 2021)

My tip for anyone that wants the sound of the R2R11 untouched to the speakers, give yourself a try with a vintage pioneer A400 amplifier, it's very cheap and works like wire with gain. I was surprised to hear nothing but as if the R2R11 itself powered my speakers. I myself now own a pioneer A400 which is converted into a power amp making the R2R11 work as all in one as the amp section of the R2R11, in regard to the tonality is spot-on with the dac making me hear exactly what I hear from the headphone socket to what I hear via the speakers, a wire with gain unicorn power amplifier which I don't see myself switching for anything else regardless of pricepoint. Give yourself a try with a cheap A400 integrated, you'll be surprised.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> @Telin, can you post a photo of oscilators?


I'll see what I can do, will be next weekend at the earliest though.


----------



## sajunky (May 8, 2021)

ProLoL said:


> My tip for anyone that wants the sound of the R2R11 untouched to the speakers, give yourself a try with a vintage pioneer A400 amplifier, it's very cheap and works like wire with gain. I was surprised to hear nothing but as if the R2R11 itself powered my speakers. I myself now own a pioneer A400 which is converted into a power amp making the R2R11 work as all in one as the amp section of the R2R11, in regard to the tonality is spot-on with the dac making me hear exactly what I hear from the headphone socket to what I hear via the speakers, a wire with gain unicorn power amplifier which I don't see myself switching for anything else regardless of pricepoint. Give yourself a try with a cheap A400 integrated, you'll be surprised.


I kept my eye on this amp when I had to replace all my gear having very limited amount of money, but no avail. Tried a vintage NAD 3020, it was not reveiling digital source enough, perhaps it needed full restoration. On the other side modern digital amps based on the TPA3250 and IcePower 125ASX2 where heavy on tweeters and fatiguing on the long run. A big surprise for me was Denon PMA-520AE, bought almost new at a half price. This is an excellent entry level amp, it has beatiful hights, matching perfectly super smooth treble of R2R-11. It is well balanced, fast enough to make a dynamic content sound natural, but not very detailed. My speakers are not very good either. Interesting that on a poor recording fast transients of the internal amp can be quite disturbing, then I am moving HD-600 to a Denon socket. It has no dedicated HPA, it takes output through the pair of resistors, it damps some harshness.


----------



## Telin

Experimented a bit with the Singxer F-1
Current situation is optical Toslink out from motherboard to optical Toslink in of the Audio-GD. 

Listened using USB out from computer to Singxer F-1 and then to coax in of the Audio-GD. 

If I have to see something I would say that coax through Singxer F-1 sounds perhaps a tad brighter then optical Toslink from motherboard. Nothing that I would pick out in a blind test though I think. 
Kinda expected a bigger (more improvement) difference between motherboard optical Toslink out vs. Singxer F-1 coax out as the Singxer F-1 has it own dedicated clocks and all. 

Prolly not going to keep the Singxer F-1. 
Sound improvement is not really there and the coax cable is thick and riggid making it hard to properly cable manage in the limited space behind the Audio-GD. 

Nice mod would be to squeeze in the bare Singxer F-1 board into the chassis of the Audio-GD lining up the USB port with the cutout for the USB port and just solder the coax out to the coax input on the Audio-GD motherboard. Quick look tells me that it might just fit 😉


----------



## Telin

As promised  @sajunky  some close-up pictures of the Amanero module in my Audio-GD NFB-11.38 early 2021 version.



























Best I can do to get pictures from a shiny surface using phone camera.


----------



## Telin

Anyone know what jumpering the Optical and Coax will do? The numbers are for the filters which are well documented but can't find anything about what a jumper on the Optical or Coax is suppose to do.


----------



## sajunky (May 13, 2021)

Thanks @Telin. These rectangular 5x7mm oscilators marked CC are important. There are Crystek brand, but a standard type, not a low phase noise. It may be little better than my SCTF, but in both cases jitter is in a picoseconds range and not specified for 10 or 100Hz, not a big deal.

I exchanged Emails with Magna HiFi. They respond quick, they would prepare a board for a P&P as posted already, it looks like a good service. Unfortunately oscilators are exactly the same as on your board. 

The only option now is to order oscilators from mouser or digikey and get someone to get SMD soldering job done, a relevant Mouser parts are:
Crystek CCHD-575-25-22.5792
Mouser part# : 549-CCHD57525-22.579

Crystek CCHD-575-25-24.576
Mouser part#: 549-CCHD57525-24.576

I don't know yet how I get these parts in South Africa, but I am going this route.


----------



## Telin

I have decided to return the unit to Magna HiFi so that they can take a look at the issue I have with the Amanero USB interface. (another advantage of not directly buying from Audio-GD)

I will try sajunky's fix with soldering an extra ground wire on the interface if Magna can't find or solve the issue. I don't want to solder the ground wire and void my warranty completely before I have given Magna the chance to fix it.

If both options fail I will give up on this unit and move on to something else.
Bit of a shame as besides the USB issue i really like the unit.


----------



## sajunky

Telin said:


> I will try sajunky's fix with soldering an extra ground wire on the interface if Magna can't find or solve the issue. I don't want to solder the ground wire and void my warranty completely before I have given Magna the chance to fix it.


Before you return a unit, try to place a short multistrand copper wire between USB plug case (when plugged to the DAC) and a screw on the case. A thick wire will hold itself against a plug and the enclosure. Ask someone to hold the other side against a screw to make contact and start playing. If helps, then this fix will work, if not, just return a unit and get money back.


----------



## ProLoL

I have an early production 2017 R2R11 if anyone's seeking to purchase.


----------



## Telin

Got a message from Magna HiFi today that they experienced the same issue as I have with the unit. They replaced the Amanero USB module with a new one and now doing a long test. So far 5 hours in without any problems or issues. It still (too) early to jump to conclusions but so far it seems to be a faulty Amanero module that caused my problems.


----------



## Telin

Little update..
My DAC has been playing nonstop for 48 hours over at Magna without problems. Guess you can say that the new Amanero module fixed the issue I had.
It's now on the way back to me. Still kinda curious to see if it will also behave properly in my system.

ps.

On the Audio-GD website they state:


> 2. All our products undergo more than 100 hours of burn-in, listening and thorough testing.



Makes me wonder how come they didn't catch the faulty Amanero module during this testing.


----------



## CJG888

If anyone is interested, I am also selling my R2R-11 (mint condition, based in EU). Please PM.


----------



## Telin

CJG888 said:


> If anyone is interested, I am also selling my R2R-11 (mint condition, based in EU). Please PM.


How come you sell your unit?


----------



## CJG888

I have just ordered a Topping DX7 Pro. I need something more compact with a balanced output.


----------



## sajunky (Jul 13, 2021)

Finally I got my Amanero board upgraded with a pair of Crystek CCHD-575 oscilators. I initially replaced only one, responsible for the 48kHz sample rate family. Using SoX I could switch frequency between 44.1 and 48, having immediate response. New oscilator brought an instant improvement in transparency and lowering harshnes. Complex sound is opening proper harmonics, making it more enjoyable. It is not a jaw dropping effect, but considering it is $30 upgrade, highly recommended.

BTW, My R2R-11 can sound good and not so good at times. Now while I could instantly compare two oscilators, I found that during a night I couldn't hear a difference. I know that our power lines are overloaded, especially during peak hours, but it is surprising that noisy power line can destroy improvements from a good oscilator. It is repeating during peak hours, now is clear why sometimes I cannot enjoy the sound.

Sound is still improving during the last few days, will post an update.


----------



## Telin

Question for the more technical people..
The NFB-11.38 uses 1x femtosecond Accusilicon 318B while the DX7Pro uses 3x femtosecond Accusilicon 318B
Just for my curiosity what is/are the design philosophy to use 1 clock over 3 clocks or opposite, using 3 instead of one?


----------



## sajunky (Jul 15, 2021)

Telin said:


> Question for the more technical people..
> The NFB-11.38 uses 1x femtosecond Accusilicon 318B while the DX7Pro uses 3x femtosecond Accusilicon 318B
> Just for my curiosity what is/are the design philosophy to use 1 clock over 3 clocks or opposite, using 3 instead of one?


General answer. *Three *high performance oscilators is wrong, a marketing bull. *Two* is right: one for 44.1kHz and one for 48kHz families. The third one is usually present, its use is different - for the internal microprocessor operation (not related to the audio timing), it can be a standard type. *One* can be also right, depends on the internal electronics.

What I see on the picture of NFB-11.28/38 Performance Edition, there is one large oscilator next to the ESS chip. It means that ESS chip use its own ASRC (asynchronous sample rate conversion), PLL (or both) to synchronise incoming data with the high quality internal clock. ASRC requires very complex mathematical operations and I think it is a built-in feature of ESS chip. Better from dual precision clocks? Very close, but in my opinion two separate clock oscilators are better.

I can't comment on DX7Pro, but Topping D30 was supposed to come with expensive SiTime clocks (it is how it was measured on ASR), but I received 20c no-name clocks. A pure cheat. You don't get the same treatment with Audio GD. On the other side, NFB-11 is old design, I suggest to look at two new models:

As seen on the photo, D-77 2021 has three large clock devices, but only two are a high precision Accusilicon type. It means that Kingwa found a way to bypass the internal ESS chip clock synchronisation and FPGA is deployed for this job (similar to the DI-20 and 2021 versions of R2R DACs). No *three* Accusilicon clocks, no marketing bull. There is no photo of AS-1 internals, but based on the description I expect exactly the same.


----------



## Telin

sajunky said:


> General answer. *Three *high performance oscilators is wrong, a marketing bull. *Two* is right: one for 44.1kHz and one for 48kHz families. The third one is usually present, its use is different - for the internal microprocessor operation (not related to the audio timing), it can be a standard type. *One* can be also right, depends on the internal electronics.
> 
> What I see on the picture of NFB-11.28/38 Performance Edition, there is one large oscilator next to the ESS chip. It means that ESS chip use its own ASRC (asynchronous sample rate conversion), PLL (or both) to synchronise incoming data with the high quality internal clock. ASRC requires very complex mathematical operations and I think it is a built-in feature of ESS chip. Better from dual precision clocks? Very close, but in my opinion two separate clock oscilators are better.
> 
> ...


Can't say I understand everything but very interesting none the less. 

So the ESS chip uses it's own internal clocks, correct? So in that case what is the function of the one femto clock right next to it? It's the main part of the "performance" edition so should be something important.


----------



## Telin

Something else I just realized and now wondering about..
Audio-GD uses Amanero Combo384 USB interface module while the majority of other known manufacturers using the XMOS xu208/xu216 USB interface module.. Why does the majority go with XMOS and why is Audio-GD going with Amanero instead?
What are the pros and cons of one and another?


----------



## sajunky

This is because XMOS is cheaper to licence in volume. Audio GD was also using XMOS before switching to Amanero.


----------



## FredA

This is the new r2r 11 mkii, a more expensive but more refined r2r 11. I am getting one for my office setup. 

It's got options for a usb isolator and Crysteks on the amanero. A display, a remote, and a relay volume control are standard. 

The essence is still the same, it remains an NOS design with a very short digital signal path. So the sound will be much similar, but better. 

http://www.audio-gd.com/R2R/R11MK2/R11mk2EN.htm


----------



## jimmychan

Upgrade the crystal and usb isolator is highly recommend.


----------



## FredA

jimmychan said:


> Upgrade the crystal and usb isolator is highly recommend.


Définitely. It adds much  more value than the money spent.


----------



## motberg

I wonder if possible for Kingwa to make this as just a DAC, with upgraded USB input standard (maybe i2s as optional input), no headphones output or preamp volume control. I think this would not only reduce the cost a bit ($499 target would be nice..jejejeje), but the added simplicity may further enhance the clarity, dynamics and tonal resolution.


----------



## FredA

Two other remarks on the mkii:

1. It seems that it will be possible to remove the botton to have access to the pcb without desoldering anything, for DIYers who will want to tweak the unit. I won't do it myself. 

2. The unit can be switched between 120 and 240V operation, like the di20.


----------



## FredA (Dec 2, 2021)

motberg said:


> I wonder if possible for Kingwa to make this as just a DAC, with upgraded USB input standard (maybe i2s as optional input), no headphones output or preamp volume control. I think this would not only reduce the cost a bit ($499 target would be nice..jejejeje), but the added simplicity may further enhance the clarity, dynamics and tonal resolution.


He would need new front and back plates, otherwise not sure if more than 3 outputs are possible but i2s is possible. It's a good idea. If many ask for it, Kingwa will likely do it. Ideally, some pcb changes would be needed as no power transistor are needed for a dac and no relay to switch between pre and headphone either.


----------



## FredA

My order is placed already. I should give my first impressions in about 3 weeks.


----------



## FredA (Dec 2, 2021)

The new r2r 11 will allow me to sell my Intona, i will have no more use for it. And i will possibly sell my original r2r 11. Not sure.

Also worth mentioning, the output stage was improved in the process, and new ultra-low noise psus for digital circuits were integrated into the design. Combined with the Crysteks, we can hope for improved low-end response and even better staging. My own experience adding the Crysteks to my unit went in this direction.

And last but not least, the ladder volume control will be more transparent than the rk27 pot. And will provide much better channel balance.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Just checked Magna HiFi, from whom I bought 2 past AGD DACs. The R2R 11 is out of stock. It's not listed as out of stock on Audio GD's website--but the distinction means little if they won't respond to repeated emails (meaning I can't buy one from them).
> 
> If it was in stock at Magna HiFi, their price of 348 Euros is ~$75 over AGD's USD price of $350 (not incl. shipping), a 15% bump. I had 2 great experiences buying from Magna HiFi, but that's a steep fee for the convenience of dealing w/them vs Audio GD.



So the new R11 MK2 is available from Kingwa and it looks like a worthy upgrade, but it costs. There is an Audio-gd dealer for America, check Kingwa's site for the link.

For Europe, Magna is a good choice. I have gotten good service from them including where they helped me get a firmware fix in about a week. They can charge premiums over Audio-gr prices because the shipping is very high from China and we get killed on imports. Magna ships for 10 euros or something like that and we don't pay ransom because they're inside the EU.


----------



## PopZeus

motberg said:


> I wonder if possible for Kingwa to make this as just a DAC, with upgraded USB input standard (maybe i2s as optional input), no headphones output or preamp volume control. I think this would not only reduce the cost a bit ($499 target would be nice..jejejeje), but the added simplicity may further enhance the clarity, dynamics and tonal resolution.


A-gd used to have an R2 DAC but it was discontinued. I think the fully balanced, and more expensive R1 ended up being a lot more popular.


----------



## Dailydrive

Possible to replace Amanero384 for i2s input on new r2r mkii ?


----------



## FredA (Dec 4, 2021)

If the mkii is as good i as i think it can be, it could be at the center of a great budget main system for poeple are there with limited space and budget.


Dailydrive said:


> Possible to replace Amanero384 for i2s input on new r2r mkii ?


Most likely, but email Kingwa to confirm.


----------



## Dailydrive

FredA said:


> If the mkii is as good i as i think it can be, it could be at the center of a budget main system for poeple are there with limited space and budget.
> 
> Most likely, but email Kingwa to confirm.


Thank you FredA


----------



## capetownwatches

FredA said:


> The new r2r 11 will allow me to sell my Intona, i will have no more use for it. And i will possibly sell my original r2r 11. Not sure.
> 
> Also worth mentioning, the output stage was improved in the process, and new ultra-low noise psus for digital circuits were integrated into the design. Combined with the Crysteks, we can hope for improved low-end response and even better staging. My own experience adding the Crysteks to my unit went in this direction.
> 
> And last but not least, the ladder volume control will be more transparent than the rk27 pot. And will provide much better channel balance.


Looks like Kingwa has made some meaningful upgrades to the venerable R2R-11.
Well worth the extra scratch.

Looking forward to early-adopter @FredA impressions!


----------



## FredA (Dec 4, 2021)

capetownwatches said:


> Looks like Kingwa has made some meaningful upgrades to the venerable R2R-11.
> Well worth the extra scratch.
> 
> Looking forward to early-adopter @FredA impressions!


I have a really good idea already.

In my current office setup, i use the old r2r 11  with an intona for usb isolation and my amanero has the Crysteks. What i don't have is the relay volume control and the latest and greatest digital psus.

Overall, with the improvments i made gave a more relaxed and focused sound. With better staging. Depending on the setup, the usb isolator can be required or not, in my case, it made a real difference with the streamer i used (Usbridge) . As for better clocking, it is always a good thing.

Although Kingwa's pot volume control is the best implementation i came across, a relay unit will make the sound less colored and more transparent.

In reality, for those owning the old unit, ordering an amanero with Crystek will give a great upgrade already. This is not an easy swap, room is tight

For difficult headphones, the new unit is expected to perform better. With easy to drive headphones, like the mdr-7506 and the K-553, and even the Sundaras, the original is flawless. It struggles a bit with more demanding planars, with unforgiving sound signature. Looking forward to trying the new unit with them! This shortcoming is easy for me to spot as i own the he9, which can drive anything without effort.


----------



## FredA (Dec 22, 2021)

The r2r 11 mkii is in the house.

The sound is already excellent. It drives my Music Master E1000s without effort.

It has a blacker background than the original, with cleaner/smoother sound. The amp seems to have better control over the mentioned headphones. Otherwise, it's the same old buddy, only much bigger!

It pairs also really well with the Music Master planar closed-back. Love this combination. Mine are with sheepskin earpads. This makes the sound less bright.


----------



## FredA

This is it:


----------



## Pharmaboy

Has anyone used this new unit as a preamp? If yes, does the output voltage vary according to hi vs lo gain settings?


----------



## FredA (Dec 22, 2021)

Pharmaboy said:


> Has anyone used this new unit as a preamp? If yes, does the output voltage vary according to hi vs lo gain settings?


I do. It's the volume control scale that changes with the gain mode. So when you switch between High and Low,  there is indeed a volume level difference. There probably is no difference in DAC mode.


----------



## FredA

In my office setup, with a power amp on the right. Perfect companion for work.


----------



## FredA (Dec 23, 2021)

I will post a review within the next weeks, but so far, the r2r mkii performed beyond my expectations. Mine is the fully upgraded version i.e. with Crysteks on the Amanero and with the usb isolator. I will eventually try it in my living room setup. It could surprise me.. Curious to see how the sound will change with burn in. It should get a bit more resolution. The mids and timbres could improve a little i guess, and bass, but if everything stayed the same, i would not be disappointed much. Any improvement will be a bonus. My unit received likely more than the usual 100h since it is from the first batch of a new product. Just one weak point so far: I noticed staging is not quite there just yet. The old is a bit better at the moment.

So far, the feeling is the sound is much like what you would get using a 1k dac with a 1k amp. In the office setup, the old unit upgraded with Crystek is fatiguing in comparison (not in the absolute). On certain albums, it will show more. This is really important as i play music for the most part of my work day. Having owned the nfb1-amp, the mkii seems really close to it as hp amp when used with single-ended headphones.

So as an early conclusion, Kingwa has outdone himself in maximizing the value of this unit. I can already state the upgrade is worth every penny and more. Probably even more after after burn-in.


----------



## FredA

Putting the hp set on this morning, the sound has regressed over night (the unit is running 24/7, not an issue as it gets just a tad warm, much colder than the original). Bass is a quite mudded. Attacks lack sharpness. The burn-in roller coaster is on!


----------



## Pharmaboy

FredA said:


> In my office setup, with a power amp on the right. Perfect companion for work.


What speakers are those?


----------



## Pharmaboy

FredA said:


> Putting the hp set on this morning, the sound has regressed over night (the unit is running 24/7, not an issue as it gets just a tad warm, much colder than the original). Bass is a quite mudded. Attacks lack sharpness. The burn-in roller coaster is on!


This brings back vivid memories of burning in AGD's DAC-19 and NOS 19 4+ years ago. Owners of these units often said on their respective Head-Fi threads that 450+ hrs of burn-in were required for the final sound to emerge and stabilize. I thought that was insane...but when burning in the NOS 19 (the 1st of the 2 I bought), the sound fluctuated wildly over the days and weeks. Regressions were common and I learned to disregard them.

I used that DAC as my main desktop system preamp (w/speakers & sub). I play music at low volume for ~12 hrs a day in the home office, so it was pretty easy to hear this DAC go all over the place sonically as I burned it in. Finally at ~500 hrs it settled down for good. I loved that sound, which changed my whole relationship w/digital...

The DAC-19 was pretty much the same--all over the place during burn-in.

All to say you really shouldn't pay much attention to how this DAC sounds at first. It's going to change and it's definitely going to get better over time.

PS: I emailed Kingwa yesterday asking if he could add a 2nd pair of RCA outputs, a necessity in my complex desktop system. If he can, I'll get on this hype-train, ticket in hand.


----------



## FredA

Pharmaboy said:


> What speakers are those?


These are the Soundartist S5b, a 200$ speaker pair that is surprisingly good. They do not have absolutely smooth treble, but reasonably smooth and they sound very well overall, once the pack port obstructed, in my case, otherwise too much bass. They go down to 40Hz or so i would say, -10dB... They have some weight to the sound.


----------



## FredA

Pharmaboy said:


> This brings back vivid memories of burning in AGD's DAC-19 and NOS 19 4+ years ago. Owners of these units often said on their respective Head-Fi threads that 450+ hrs of burn-in were required for the final sound to emerge and stabilize. I thought that was insane...but when burning in the NOS 19 (the 1st of the 2 I bought), the sound fluctuated wildly over the days and weeks. Regressions were common and I learned to disregard them.
> 
> I used that DAC as my main desktop system preamp (w/speakers & sub). I play music at low volume for ~12 hrs a day in the home office, so it was pretty easy to hear this DAC go all over the place sonically as I burned it in. Finally at ~500 hrs it settled down for good. I loved that sound, which changed my whole relationship w/digital...
> 
> ...


Yes, i burned so many Audio-gd dacs, and amps, I am used to it. The mkii is back to glorious now, better than yesterday.

2 holes need to be drilled to add the additional RCAs, some wire and a pair of plugs. The output stage can easily drive 2 inputs. Kingwa should be able to accommodate you i suppose although it takes some workmanship.


----------



## FredA

There could be a lack of room. I would use a splitting cable if i were you.


----------



## FredA (Dec 28, 2021)

After amost 140h, the r2r 11 mkii has now excellent staging, lots of refinement.

It is good enough for a demanding audiophile like me. Considering my main setup is is no-compromise Audio-gd setup worth over 20k (including cables, streamer,  10M clock and speakers) , my modest 1200$ office setup is really impressive and really does not feel so inferior. You get about 85-90% of what the big setup is capable of, and the sound is also without any annoying trait. A bit less staging, less botton extension of course, given the size of the speakers, fewer details and less clarity. But what comes out is very refined. Before the new r2r mki, the small system gave 80% of the big one. And i was using a usb isolator, plus an Amanero384 board featuring crysteks. So the improvements made elsewhere definitely pay off. And most of all, the r2r 11 mkii retain the excellent musicality of its predecessor. So i would call it the perfect foundation for a budget system that does not feel like one. My cheap speakers are even better than i thought they were! And on headphones, the improvement is also significant. Better control, blacker backgound and more relaxed sound. Better staging too and smoother top.

I can already recommend it without any reservation. It is excellent, better than i expected even being well aware of the great value audio-gd products possess. The unit is no more cheap, but it remains a huge value, even better than before IMO.

Cheer to Kingwa, this is a great product!


----------



## FredA

My full review of the new r2r 11 mkii is out:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-r2r-11.859278/page-33#post-16738573

Enjoy!


----------



## FredA

So, @Pharmaboy, how is your r2r 11, mkii coming along?


----------



## Pharmaboy

FredA said:


> So, @Pharmaboy, how is your r2r 11, mkii coming along?


Very well. It's not even 150 hrs yet, so the DAC has a ways to go. At this point I don't have any downstream amps attached yet. That will come after this amp section burns in.

But at the moment the sound is quite good. Of course hard to distinguish the DAC from the amp when both used together, but so far, the DAC sounds like a solid NOS design, and the amp sounds just like other Audio GD AIO's I've heard w/single-ended amps--that is to say, clean, clear, powerful, slightly warm, excellent bass, a real get-out-of-the-way amp. Was doing some listening last night via my 5-yr old but still very nice sounding Fidelio X2s and really liked what I heard.

After 3 full weeks burn-in (the 2nd & 3rd of which will have other amps attached to the dual RCA outputs), I'll bring this unit into into the desktop system in place of the MHDT Labs Orchid (at least temporarily/for evaluation); then into the side system in place of the Audio GD DAC-19. I'm expecting the R2R-11 MKII to be at least competitive in the main system; and to be the boss in the side system.


----------



## FredA

Pharmaboy said:


> Very well. It's not even 150 hrs yet, so the DAC has a ways to go. At this point I don't have any downstream amps attached yet. That will come after this amp section burns in.
> 
> But at the moment the sound is quite good. Of course hard to distinguish the DAC from the amp when both used together, but so far, the DAC sounds like a solid NOS design, and the amp sounds just like other Audio GD AIO's I've heard w/single-ended amps--that is to say, clean, clear, powerful, slightly warm, excellent bass, a real get-out-of-the-way amp. Was doing some listening last night via my 5-yr old but still very nice sounding Fidelio X2s and really liked what I heard.
> 
> After 3 full weeks burn-in (the 2nd & 3rd of which will have other amps attached to the dual RCA outputs), I'll bring this unit into into the desktop system in place of the MHDT Labs Orchid (at least temporarily/for evaluation); then into the side system in place of the Audio GD DAC-19. I'm expecting the R2R-11 MKII to be at least competitive in the main system; and to be the boss in the side system.


Will you use a dcc with it, cause I believe you did not get the usb upgrades, am i right? 

I am still amazed how clean my own sounds. Bass, mids, highs, staging. Minimal coloration. I can't stand gears with much coloration anymore (ever since i got my first audio-gd dac about 11 years ago). This little guy sounds like a grown up.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I just commented on this in the R2R-11 thread. I will use a DDC w/the R2R-11 MK2; and/or a SPDIF converter. 

So far the sound of this unit is quite promising. I love NOS digital and am happy to have another NOS box in the house.

I rarely use USB straight in these days. I find coax always sounds better...


----------



## FredA

Pharmaboy said:


> I just commented on this in the R2R-11 thread. I will use a DDC w/the R2R-11 MK2; and/or a SPDIF converter.
> 
> So far the sound of this unit is quite promising. I love NOS digital and am happy to have another NOS box in the house.
> 
> I rarely use USB straight in these days. I find coax always sounds better...


The mkii extacts a lot of details, it is quite amazing. The better the ddc, the better it will sound but the usb input, passed 500h, is really excellent with the upgrades. Your Matrix should do even better.


----------



## Pharmaboy

FredA said:


> The mkii extacts a lot of details, it is quite amazing. The better the ddc, the better it will sound but the usb input, passed 500h, is really excellent with the upgrades. Your Matrix should do even better.


For about 3 seconds I thought about buying the USB upgrades Kingwa offers. But it was ~$100K add'l for a benefit I didn't really need. I would (in effect) be buying an upgrade I don't need solely so the unit would be easier to eventually sell.

That's a state of low-to-no audio commitment I haven't quite reached yet...


----------



## FredA

Pharmaboy said:


> For about 3 seconds I thought about buying the USB upgrades Kingwa offers. But it was ~$100K add'l for a benefit I didn't really need. I would (in effect) be buying an upgrade I don't need solely so the unit would be easier to eventually sell.
> 
> That's a state of low-to-no audio commitment I haven't quite reached yet...


The usb input got better after the review but an excellent ddc will still best it. You need an excellent setup to see its limits.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> For about 3 seconds I thought about buying the USB upgrades Kingwa offers. But it was ~$100K add'l for a benefit I didn't really need.


Well, I have always considered Audio-gd products best values. But your comment about $100K worth of USB upgrades calls my previous appraisal into question


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Well, I have always considered Audio-gd products best values. But your comment about $100K worth of USB upgrades calls my previous appraisal into question


Your comment made me think twice. Maybe I'm wrong about $100.

Just checked. I was wrong. The USB upgrades = $69 above standard version's price. This is copied from the "Custom Option" sub-page for the R2R-11 MK2 on Audio GD's website:

*R2R-11 mk2 Standard version:  USD599
R2R-11 mk2 Full upgrade version:  USD668 (*USB module clocks upgraded to Crysteks, built-in isolator for the USB module*)*

My apologies to Audio GD. I should have said "...~$70 add'l for a benefit I didn't really need."


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> Your comment made me think twice. Maybe I'm wrong about $100.
> 
> Just checked. I was wrong. The USB upgrades = $69 above standard version's price. This is copied from the "Custom Option" sub-page for the R2R-11 MK2 on Audio GD's website:
> 
> ...


Are you still not seeing that you wrote $100*K* worth of upgrades? 

I wasn't splitting hairs about $70 vs $100, but rather $100,000


----------



## Pharmaboy

Omigod, that's insane! No, I didn't notice that.

Please excuse me, everyone. Just found out I'm an ass in print...


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Sorry man, I don't think you're that at all. I just thought I was in the high-end forum again.


----------



## FredA

Lol! I had noticed the 100K.


----------



## Pharmaboy

gimmeheadroom said:


> Sorry man, I don't think you're that at all. I just thought I was in the high-end forum again.


FUNNY!


----------



## hikaru12

Hey guys,

Two questions - Can you get the R2R11 in balanced configuration? and how is the bass slam on it? I'm looking for another secondary DAC since Schiit is out of stock out of all their stuff for foreseeable future.


----------



## FredA

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Two questions - Can you get the R2R11 in balanced configuration? and how is the bass slam on it? I'm looking for another secondary DAC since Schiit is out of stock out of all their stuff for foreseeable future.


No balance config.

Good bass slam with excellent definition.


----------



## hikaru12

FredA said:


> No balance config.
> 
> Good bass slam with excellent definition.


Thanks for the quick response - is there a preferred digital input that sounds the best or is the USB competent?


----------



## FredA

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for the quick response - is there a preferred digital input that sounds the best or is the USB competent?


Usb is very good with the upgrade, passed the 500h burn-in. SPDIF is even better if you use an excellent DDC, like the di20. Usb is no slouch really.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Two questions - Can you get the R2R11 in balanced configuration? and how is the bass slam on it? I'm looking for another secondary DAC since Schiit is out of stock out of all their stuff for foreseeable future.


The R2R-11 Gen 1 is an amazing value. I haven't heard the Gen 2 but I trust Fred's excellent review that he posted earlier.

Anyway, if you want balanced and are willing to spend another thousand (it's only money after all) the R8 MKII is a fantastic DAC with a lot of connectivity.


----------



## hikaru12

gimmeheadroom said:


> The R2R-11 Gen 1 is an amazing value. I haven't heard the Gen 2 but I trust Fred's excellent review that he posted earlier.
> 
> Anyway, if you want balanced and are willing to spend another thousand (it's only money after all) the R8 MKII is a fantastic DAC with a lot of connectivity.


Hmm that one is approaching the cost of a Master 11. Anything particular noteworthy about it?


----------



## FredA

hikaru12 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Two questions - Can you get the R2R11 in balanced configuration? and how is the bass slam on it? I'm looking for another secondary DAC since Schiit is out of stock out of all their stuff for foreseeable future.


I was speaking of the mkii  though. This the one you meant?


----------



## hikaru12

FredA said:


> I was speaking of the mkii  though. This the one you meant?


Ah, didn't realize there were two different versions. What is the MKII going for?


----------



## FredA

hikaru12 said:


> Ah, didn't realize there were two different versions. What is the MKII going for?


668 with all upgrades, not cheap but   really better than the original.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 31, 2022)

Sorry, broken quoting: @hikaru12 said  Hmm that one is approaching the cost of a Master 11. Anything particular noteworthy about it?

Yes, if you look at the Audio-gd threads and how much love the gear and Kingwa, the designer/owner get, it's noteworthy that many of us started with the R2R-11. "Gateway drug to Audio-gd"

It's an NOS R2R DAC, it sounds great, and has a surprisingly good headamp. Really, killer value.

The build of Audio-gd gear is what I call Industrial 1960s and 70s Garage-Fi Nouveau but the more you use it the more you see how much thought was put into everything about it.



hikaru12 said:


> Ah, didn't realize there were two different versions. What is the MKII going for?


Well there is only one now, I think all the MKI (not called that at the time but rather just R2R-11) have all been sold by now.


----------



## hikaru12

The reason I ask is because I'm looking for a deskside setup to compliment my LCD-2 strengths which is a smooth, fatigue free listening experience coupled with really good bass slam. I'm not really looking for detail. Would you still say the MK2 fits that description? Are there any good US distributors of AudioGD or is ordering direct still the best way to go?


----------



## gimmeheadroom

hikaru12 said:


> The reason I ask is because I'm looking for a deskside setup to compliment my LCD-2 strengths which is a smooth, fatigue free listening experience coupled with really good bass slam. I'm not really looking for detail. Would you still say the MK2 fits that description? Are there any good US distributors of AudioGD or is ordering direct still the best way to go?


I haven't heard the R2R-11 MK2, I have the R8 MKII. I'll let Fred comment on that and he is also in America while I am not.

The thing about Kingwa's R2R is that they are very resolving while being incredibly musical, organic, and life-like. The R8 MKII has slam in spades but also air, shimmering cymbals... there is tremendous detail but it's not presented in an analytical way, if that helps. By comparison, I would not recommend the Brooklyn DAC+ to you after reading your comments.


----------



## hikaru12

gimmeheadroom said:


> I haven't heard the R2R-11 MK2, I have the R8 MKII. I'll let Fred comment on that and he is also in America while I am not.
> 
> The thing about Kingwa's R2R is that they are very resolving while being incredibly musical, organic, and life-like. The R8 MKII has slam in spades but also air, shimmering cymbals... there is tremendous detail but it's not presented in an analytical way, if that helps. By comparison, I would not recommend the Brooklyn DAC+ to you after reading your comments.


Thanks for the recommendations! I am currently looking into getting a Yggdrasil if I'm looking at the $2k price point but wouldn't be opposed to getting the R8 MKII if it meets certain criteria. Since my LCD 2's are in a secondary system I'd like to keep the cost of the dac/amp to about $1k if possible. 

Mainly on the detail front how would you describe the microdetail on the R8 MKII? Is it easy to pick out without going overboard? Would you be able to compare it to the Yggy or any of Schiits higher tier offerings? Thanks!


----------



## Pharmaboy

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for the quick response - is there a preferred digital input that sounds the best or is the USB competent?


I've preferred coax in (from a SPDIF converter or, more recently, a DDC) to USB in on every DAC I've had here.

I suspect it will be no different w/the R2R-11 MK2. So much so that I didn't bother paying for the upgraded USB input options (I'll almost certainly be using coax w/this unit, no matter which of my 2 systems it ends up in).


----------



## Pharmaboy

hikaru12 said:


> The reason I ask is because I'm looking for a deskside setup to compliment my LCD-2 strengths which is a smooth, fatigue free listening experience coupled with really good bass slam. I'm not really looking for detail. Would you still say the MK2 fits that description? Are there any good US distributors of AudioGD or is ordering direct still the best way to go?


I would have gladly bought my MK2 from the U.S. distributor. But they don't stock this unit. I bought mine straight from AGD in China, and all is well. 

PM me if you want more details.


----------



## FredA (Jan 31, 2022)

The Mkii has indeed some good slam.  Good drive. I tried the Music Master E1000 which are sort of a Chinese lcd-3. The bass is very good. Staging is awesome too. It should drive the lcd-2 very well.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 31, 2022)

hikaru12 said:


> Thanks for the recommendations! I am currently looking into getting a Yggdrasil if I'm looking at the $2k price point but wouldn't be opposed to getting the R8 MKII if it meets certain criteria. Since my LCD 2's are in a secondary system I'd like to keep the cost of the dac/amp to about $1k if possible.


The R8 MKII is a DAC, there is no headamp. See the product page here at http://audio-gd.com/R2R/R8mk2/R8mk2EN.htm



hikaru12 said:


> Mainly on the detail front how would you describe the microdetail on the R8 MKII? Is it easy to pick out without going overboard?


I think the best way to describe it is organic and transparent. My RME is musical, my Brooklyn is a bit cold, sterile, analytical. My Oppo is technical perfection.

The R8 just gets out of the way. It's the closest thing to feeling like there is no recording and no system, rather just the live or studio performance. And to me this is the goal of audiophilia. I wrote a review here https://magnahifi.com/audio-gd-r8-mk2-discrete-balanced-r2r-ladder-fpga-accusilicon-dac/#reviews under Czech Buyer.

Another thing I would add, the R8 MKII is a NOS DAC but also has 4 OS modes. And it has a phono/vinyl simulation mode which I didn't try. It would be surprising if anybody couldn't find a setting appropriate to his use case. 



hikaru12 said:


> Would you be able to compare it to the Yggy or any of Schiits higher tier offerings? Thanks!


I cannot. I have not heard any of their DACs and I'm not a fan of the company. You can see what gear I have in my signature. I have been a hifi hound since before I was a teen but I only got into digital music recently.

As far as the R2R-11 MK2 I think it's worth paying for the USB upgrade. First of all @FredA says it's good. Secondly, if you ever wanted to sell it (unlikely!) having the full-spec version would probably help.

I think the R8 MK2 would be fine over USB although I run it either ACSS or IIS out of my DI-20 or AES over my Mutec. I don't like toslink or coaxial S/PDIF and all the rest of my shelf gear support AES so that's what I use. AES is not an option on the R2R-11 though.


----------



## sajunky

gimmeheadroom said:


> I think the R8 MK2 would be fine over USB although I run it either ACSS or IIS out of my DI-20 or AES over my Mutec. I don't like toslink or coaxial S/PDIF and all the rest of my shelf gear support AES so that's what I use. AES is not an option on the R2R-11 though.


I have to add that USB implementation is top quality, it answers an original question. However @Pharmaboy made important comment on S/PDIF, many users confirm the same. USB connection SQ is very dependent on the user configuration. When driven from PC it needs in most cases ground loops redirector devices like iDefender. And there are many devices that do it wrong. DDC doesn't help, as there is no I2S port in a DAC. An option that adds galvanic isolator makes R2R-11 performing consistently in most systems without additional devices, similar to BF2 which also has an isolator on USB port. Question is: would an upgraded USB sound better than S/PDIF? I doubt so, as isolator adds some jitter, probably more than 50ps on the S/PDIF receiver. 

@hikaru12, I have no doubt (as @FredA stated) that lack of balanced output is not an issuse with LCD-3. The biggest problem is whether you are familar with NOS sound. BF2 you are perhaps more familar is not NOS. If you are not sure, R2R-11 may not be the best for you. In such case R-8mk2 is a recommended option (as it has both), unless you can borrow R2R-11 for two weeks.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Yes, but the problem is most people are running off PCs that don't have any other form of interface than USB.


----------



## sajunky (Feb 1, 2022)

gimmeheadroom said:


> Yes, but the problem is most people are running off PCs that don't have any other form of interface than USB.


U2 Pro will convert USB to S/PDIF, there are more such devices. Before I upgraded clocks on my R2R-11, converter was giving me slightly better SQ than direct USB on my most noisy laptop, similar to other reports. It was DIY upgrade, ordinary users have no option than ordering a full mk2 upgrade with isolator. But I am sure Kingwa will do it when asked during ordering.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

sajunky said:


> U2 Pro will convert USB to S/PDIF, there are more such devices. Before I upgraded clocks on my R2R-11, converter was giving me slightly better SQ than direct USB on my most noisy laptop, similar to other reports. It was DIY upgrade, ordinary users have no option than ordering a full mk2 upgrade with isolator. But I am sure Kingwa will do it when asked during ordering.


I saw Matrix has something similar on the Magna hifi site. I didn't see any reviews of it though.

And I didn't understand why you wrote DDC won't help or why it wouldn't be better than one of these USB to S/PDIF converter boxes. Was your comment specific to IIS or more general?


----------



## sajunky (Feb 1, 2022)

Of course, it was specific to I2S, I mentioned it, but not clear, sorry.


----------



## Pharmaboy (Feb 1, 2022)

I have the Matrix Audio DDC, purchased from Arthur @power-Holdings (always a good experience): "Matrix Audio SPDIF 2 Femto Clock & Format Convertor." Before this I used SPDIF converters for years, most recently the Musical Fidelity V-link 192/24, which I will soon press into service in my side system, when I eventually install the fully burned-in R2R-11 MK2 (~2 weeks from now).

I prefer the sound of SPDIF+good coax cable to USB in every DAC I tried it with. The differences are subtle, usually in the direction of slight warm + a more natural, organic, "flowing" feel to the music (net/net: it sounds more analog).

This DDC is a whole other matter. Beyond allowing me to use my favorite coax cable straight into the MHDT Labs Orchid DAC, it also produced new/real sonic changes, all intriguing & good IMO. Judged by the sound on my vintage KEF 103.2s + JLAudio sub (easier to hear DDC changes on speakers than headphones), as soon as I installed this DDC, I heard a more distinct center image than before; Left to Right soundstaging became a little wider (soundstage isn't very overt in the nearfield, but it did get better); and pretty much every note, sound and sonic cue became clearer & more distinct. There was zero change in tonality _per se_, but a distinct change in the presentation of notes. It's like getting more resolution with no fatigue.

This DDC also has an I2S output, which I can't use currently. I regard that output as "future proofing," should I ever get a DAC w/I2S input. BTW, this I2S is configurable to some degree, awfully helpful given that there is no universal I2S standard for DAC, meaning that the pin-out/layout can be different for different DACs.

This DDC cost ~$430, which in DDC land is rather inexpensive. There are much praised DDCs out there that cost upwards of $2K. For example, Denafrips offers 3 DDCs of ascending price and complexity/sophistication.

Bringing all this back to the new R2R-11 MK2, it will always get signal from a SPDIF converter or DDC, though I may install the USB driver on one of the computers just as a temp workaround if there's a problem w/the converter.

I'm burning in the R2R-11 MK2 on an old laptop. I installed the USB driver on that system, and it's working normally and sounds quite good, though the DAC portion is only ~50% burned in. I did not get the upgraded USB implemementation  that costs an extra ~$70, But so far, stock USB sounds just fine. I'm guessing it's the same hardware as what AGD used on the 10 Anniversary DAC-19, which the R2R-11 MK2 will soon replace (which also sounds just fine via USB straight in).

Final point: It helps to keep all this stuff in perspective. After various delta/sigma DACS, then a multibit & 3 NOS designs, I can say with confidence that the differences between multibit/NOS vs delta-sigma are far larger than the difference between USB input vs SPDIF, or even DDCs. The gains in refinement and musicality that I got from my first non-delta/sigma DAC were immediate and significant.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Pharmaboy said:


> I have the Matrix Audio DDC, purchased from Arthur @power-Holdings (always a good experience): "Matrix Audio SPDIF 2 Femto Clock & Format Convertor." Before this I used SPDIF converters for years, most recently the Musical Fidelity V-link 192/24, which I will soon press into service in my side system, when I eventually install the fully burned-in R2R-11 MK2 (~2 weeks from now).
> 
> I prefer the sound of SPDIF+good coax cable to USB in every DAC I tried it with. The differences are subtle, usually in the direction of slight warm + a more natural, organic, "flowing" feel to the music (net/net: it sounds more analog).
> 
> ...


Lots of good info there as usual and thanks for commenting on the Matrix box.


----------

