# Woo Audio WA22 Amp Owner Unite



## leftside

Let's see if this thread takes off. I've tried many different headphone amps in a similar price range (both solid state and tube) and the WA22 is by far my favorite headphone amplifier. I run mine with a 53KU Cossor Fat Bottle, 4 * 6BL7's and ECC32's. There are a number of other rectifiers, power tubes and driver tubes that I like with this amp that I might talk about at a later date. Here are a few pics of my setup.
  
 Let's talk WA22! What headphones do you use? Do you have a preamp? What DAC do you find pairs with this amp? What tubes do you like? Do you use a turntable? I personally love the sound of vinyl + tubes.
  
 WA234 and WA5 owners go elsewhere


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## leftside

Post good and bad experiences. We all know these amps are not perfect and can be a little temperamental sometimes. But, with the right tube combo (there are many...) these amps sound mighty sweet!


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## SP Wild

I was suspicious of output transformers. This amp proves my suspicions were unfounded.


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## SP Wild

Very tight bass. Goes low. Open around middle C. Open in the uppermids. Treble is extended, transients are sharp. Very detailed everwhere. Absolutely have no more interest in solid state. 

The output transformers inject a better layering of the big soundstage that tubes deliver. My OTLs are less 3d. Electric guitars... FINALLY correct.


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## DejanM

I do not have any experience with Woo Audio amps. They seem though to be very interesting. Can you please put some comments how this Woo compares with some other well known amps that you tried in your system ?


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## DejanM

I do not have any experience with Woo Audio amps. They seem though to be very interesting. Can you please put some comments how this Woo compares with some other well known amps that you tried in your system ?


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## leftside

Here's a comparison to the Allnic HPA-3000.
  
 "Amazingly quiet with no music playing. Also packs a punch! Delivers a lot of power.
  
 As I mainly listen to vinyl with a tube phono preamp, I really appreciated the extra power and extra quietness with no music playing that this amp has over the Woo. With a "regular" set of tubes in the Woo, I might prefer this amp over the Woo. But, with a "top end" set of tubes, I have to give my preference to the Woo. There isn't much in it, but the Woo just seemed to make any harshness coming from the music a little smoother.
  
 If you are not interested in tube rolling, want a very good head amp with lot's of power and that is very quiet, then I can strongly recommend this amp. Also looks very good."
  
 As mentioned above I give the nod to the WA22 in regard to that smooth/lush sound. There is a noticeable difference with the highs. The WA22 just seems to smooth them out and make them more enjoyable. Still, I've kept both amps (I got a great deal on the Allnic) and the Allnic is used in my other room.


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## Badas

Hi Guys,
  
 I thought I better chime in.
  
 Thanks Leftside for setting up the thread. Great idea.
  
 I've had the WA22 for about 18 months now. I'm kinda polarizing (a few lovers and haters) however I've also done a lot of experimenting. So I will share a few discoveries. I've discovered a few gems and also a few frustrations (to be expected with tube amps).
  
*My few gems. *

 I discovered the Brimar 5Z4GY early on and reported how great it was. From there it proved popular with Woo users. Langrex in the UK has at great prices and seems to have plenty of stock. Contact James.
  
 SS rectification was very nice. Especially the Weber copper caps (WU4G). If I didn't have a state of the art SS amp (Violectric V281) I would run the WU4G in my amp permanently. WU4G provides a very clean detailed sound. More than most rectifier tubes. Very good bang for the $$'s.
  
 This was discovered purely by accident. 6C8g tubes work fine as drivers. I had purchased 6F8G and was supplied 6C8G. It had been in my amp for two weeks when I noticed it was a different tube. I contacted Jack from Woo and he confirmed it was fine to use. So I stocked up on Tung-Sol roundplate and National Union 6C8G's. They are lot cheaper than the 6F8g. I now have 16 sets of TS and 8 sets of NU. NU doesn't play nicely (noise) with some power tubes. It does work nice with my favorite power tube (GE6AS7GA) so I stock a few.
  
 TAK274B is a damn nice tube (it may be worth the $$'s). I stock a couple of these. I've recently got the 596. That competes with the TAK274B however you can't use any other tubes with wire grids like the 6C8G/6F8G mention above. They create a buzz sound.
  
 6BL7 power tubes are real nice. Very holographic. Runs the amps very cool. You can use singles as a direct drop in or buy adapters to run two per socket.
  
 DeOxit is great and it should be in every tube amp owners care kit.
  
*My few frustrations.*
  
 Some power tubes don't play nice in the WA22. They produce a background noise when mixed with the wrong type of driver. Occasionally the rectifier can cause issue as well. Basically synergy. WA22 is unforgiving with a number of power tubes.

 The power tubes I've discovered that can be of issue are:
  
 Sylvania 6080 (can be a hit or miss (out of 4 tubes 3 were noisy)).
 RCA 6AS7
 Sventlana 6N13
 Mullard 6080 (can be a hit or miss (out of 6 tubes 2 were noisy)).
  
 Like I said sometimes changing the rectifier or drivers can help. My experience is that RCA 6AS7 and Sventlana are a lost cause. If you get a noisy set nothing can keep them quiet. RCA6AS7 can be labeled up (I've owned all of these versions) Raytheon, Sylvania, Tung-Sol and GE. So be careful to look at construction. Out of 6 sets of RCA6AS7 none were quiet. I would not recommend RCA6AS7G for the WA22. These same tubes were dead quiet in the Woo WA2. So there is some circuit differences between the WA2 and WA22.
  
 I've never totally drank the tube amp kool-aid. My WA22 (my first and only tube amp) has been fun and for a long while been my best sounding amp. However it is now beaten by my Violectric V281 SS amp. Probably my most polarizing point. This is not the place for any discussion. I just point it out as I may be biased. WA22 is staying as it does produce something different to the V281. Different is good.
  
*I will leave you with a few images of tubes I have tried:*
  

  
 My system. Woo WA22, Violectric V281, Auralic Vega DAC (huge improvement) and I use AudiQuest NightHawks and the Audeze LCD-3C headphones. I don't use vinyl on HP's. I can't get past the crackling sound.
  

  
 Brimar 5Z4GY used with twin 6BL7 power tubes. Like Leftside has mentioned I have used 6BL7 as well. Fantastic power tubes.
  

  
 Weber copper cap WU4G. A really nice combo. Very clean sound. A lot of hum left my system after using SS rectification.
  

  
 Probably my favorite combo. TAK 274B, Tung-Sol 6C8G and GE6AS7GA.
  

  
 Right now this is what I'm using. 596 rectifier, RCA 6SN7 and GE6AS7GA. Purely experimental at this stage. However early listening is very positive. I'm surprised how well the RCA are doing in this combination. Usually RCA6SN7 is a little treble rolled. At the moment I'm hearing a little roll off but better than I've heard before. It could be a good on-going combo.
  
 That's all for now. Peace.
  
 Dono.


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## Badas

Leftside,
  
 What drive tubes are these? They look interesting.
  
 If I have to use drive tubes with no wire grids with the 596 I may look into them.
  


>


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## Arcamera

After enjoying the WA3, WA6, and WA2 for a long while, I've now ordered the WA22. Looking forward to joining the club. I'll chime in more after I get some listening time in. Not that I have any expert thoughts or technical advice-- far from it. I'm still learning. Just a passionate listener.


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## leftside

Osram B65's in the first photo. The others are TungSol 6SN7GTB's (Tallboys I think).


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## leftside

I haven't had much luck with any tubes that have wires sticking out of them and require an adapter. I always get a slight hum with them - even with the Glenn adapters.


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## davehg

Using the WA22 with Mullard 6080s, Brimar and Sophia 274b, and Sylvania 6SN7S. Feeding it from a Sony HAPZ1es in balanced mode, and a highly modded Squeezebox with an outboard power supply streaming Tidal through a Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC, and VPI Prime with an EAR834p phono stage. 

The amp loves the HD650 but does ok with the LCD3. I have a WA5 on the way that may outclass this amp, but it does so well with Sennheisers it is worth keeping. Really hoping to find the right tubes to tame glare.


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## jhljhl

leftside said:


> Osram B65's in the first photo. The others are TungSol 6SN7GTB's (Tallboys I think).


 

 How are the b65?


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## ghhf

davehg said:


> Using the WA22 with Mullard 6080s, Brimar and Sophia 274b, and Sylvania 6SN7S. Feeding it from a Sony HAPZ1es in balanced mode, and a highly modded Squeezebox with an outboard power supply streaming Tidal through a Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC, and VPI Prime with an EAR834p phono stage.
> 
> The amp loves the HD650 but does ok with the LCD3. I have a WA5 on the way that may outclass this amp, but it does so well with Sennheisers it is worth keeping. Really hoping to find the right tubes to tame glare.




Having my WA22 for about a year, very satisfied result for most of my headphones after some tube rolling, no hum so far. It drives pretty nice if not great the AKG-K1000 via the XLR outputs.
 
I also prefer a Vibb Eaters Mini like this always sitting on the WA22 power transformer, that seems turning WA22 into a more clear, peace & consistent sonic (vs temperamental?).
 

 
Btw, my WA5 is on the way too, perhaps there should be a thread WA5 Amp Owner Unite ..... LOL


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## leftside

davehg said:


> Using the WA22 with Mullard 6080s, Brimar and Sophia 274b, and Sylvania 6SN7S. Feeding it from a Sony HAPZ1es in balanced mode, and a highly modded Squeezebox with an outboard power supply streaming Tidal through a Musical Fidelity TriVista DAC, and VPI Prime with an EAR834p phono stage.
> 
> The amp loves the HD650 but does ok with the LCD3. I have a WA5 on the way that may outclass this amp, but it does so well with Sennheisers it is worth keeping. Really hoping to find the right tubes to tame glare.


 
 I use the LCD3. Try power tubes such as Tung Sol 5998 or 4 * 6BL7's. Also try a higher gain driver such as the ECC35. I get great results.


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## leftside

jhljhl said:


> How are the b65?


 
 Perhaps my favorite tubes. Too rare and expensive to use though. They are now safely in storage and will be sold at a later date or plundered in case emergency funds are ever required.


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## leftside

ghhf said:


> I also prefer a Vibb Eaters Mini like this always sitting on the WA22 power transformer, that seems turning WA22 into a more clear, peace & consistent sonic (vs temperamental?).


 
 Maybe the Vibb Eaters Mini stops vibrations from the transformer? I had vibration problems with my WA22 when I first got it, but it's been fine since I upgraded the power cord and added a power filter. A tech I know mentioned that I could open up the top and fill the compartment with something like this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-LBS-Glass-Bead-MIL-3-A-20-30-grit-Coarse-Media-Reborn-Doll-Abrasive-/121836693679


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## Badas

leftside said:


> I haven't had much luck with any tubes that have wires sticking out of them and require an adapter. I always get a slight hum with them - even with the Glenn adapters.


 
  
 I've never had problems with using Glenn 6F8G adapters (I have 3 different sets) with TSRP 6C8G's and NU6F8G's. No hum or buzz at all.
  
 The 596 buzzed when using with 6C8G's. Just too many wires. A damn shame as it sounded freakin amazing.
  

  
  


leftside said:


> Maybe the Vibb Eaters Mini stops vibrations from the transformer? I had vibration problems with my WA22 when I first got it, but it's been fine since I upgraded the power cord and added a power filter. A tech I know mentioned that I could open up the top and fill the compartment with something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-LBS-Glass-Bead-MIL-3-A-20-30-grit-Coarse-Media-Reborn-Doll-Abrasive-/121836693679


 
  
 I've never heard of a vibration from the transformer issue. Is it a hum sound? I do get that on occasion. Not often. Not enough to annoy.
  
 Could you actually do what you said above?


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## Badas

leftside said:


> I haven't had much luck with any tubes that have wires sticking out of them and require an adapter. I always get a slight hum with them - even with the Glenn adapters.


 
  
 I've never had problems with using Glenn 6F8G adapters (I have 3 different sets) with TSRP 6C8G's and NU6F8G's. No hum or buzz at all.
  
 The 596 buzzed when using with 6C8G's. Just too many wires. A damn shame as it sounded freakin amazing.
  

  
  


leftside said:


> Maybe the Vibb Eaters Mini stops vibrations from the transformer? I had vibration problems with my WA22 when I first got it, but it's been fine since I upgraded the power cord and added a power filter. A tech I know mentioned that I could open up the top and fill the compartment with something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-LBS-Glass-Bead-MIL-3-A-20-30-grit-Coarse-Media-Reborn-Doll-Abrasive-/121836693679


 
  
 I've never heard of a vibration from the transformer issue. Is it a hum sound? I do get that on occasion. Not often. Not enough to annoy.
  
 Could you actually do what you said above?


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## Badas

I thought these were interesting. They are a RCA 6SL7. Perfectly usable as drivers. I was looking for 6SL7's to go with the 596 rectifier.
  
 These have the same plates as the NU6FG (a sweet sounding tube). I think these plates were made by RCA as I see it in a few of their tubes. I suspect NU purchased plates from RCA and used in their 6F8G then got the reputation.
  
 Probably a great sounding tube. Has anyone tried?


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## abvolt

Very cool thread great to be part this one since I'm also a happy owner of a wa22..


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## MIKELAP

Glad to join in the fun ,here's my setup at the moment


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## leftside

badas said:


> Could you actually do what you said above?


 
 No idea. I never tried.


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## leftside

abvolt said:


> Very cool thread great to be part this one since I'm also a happy owner of a wa22..


 
 Rockin the ECC32's and TS 5998's! Where did you get the vibration bands from?


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## leftside

badas said:


> I thought these were interesting. They are a RCA 6SL7. Perfectly usable as drivers. I was looking for 6SL7's to go with the 596 rectifier.
> 
> These have the same plates as the NU6FG (a sweet sounding tube). I think these plates were made by RCA as I see it in a few of their tubes. I suspect NU purchased plates from RCA and used in their 6F8G then got the reputation.
> 
> Probably a great sounding tube. Has anyone tried?


 
 I've got a pair of Mullard 6SL7's. They work great.


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## Badas

mikelap said:


> Glad to join in the fun ,here's my setup at the moment


 
 596, GEC 6080 and is that TSRP's?
  
 I bet that sounds great.


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## MIKELAP

badas said:


> mikelap said:
> 
> 
> > Glad to join in the fun ,here's my setup at the moment
> ...


 
 Tungsol 6SL7


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## abvolt

Dude I also have a pair of those very nice..


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## davehg

Visiting Pearl Harbor memorial today, in the bowels of a WWII submarine, and I spy this in the Equipment locker:



A closer inspection reveals this:





All I can think is: what would that sound like in the WA22?


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## Badas

mikelap said:


> Tungsol 6SL7


 
  
 That's it. I'm grabbing a few pairs for my 596 tubes. I do love TSRP's.


davehg said:


> Visiting Pearl Harbor memorial today, in the bowels of a WWII submarine, and I spy this in the Equipment locker:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks like a Sylvania 6F8G. I think. It should be good.
  
 Edit: It says 6L6. I don't know if that can be used???


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## ghhf

leftside said:


> Maybe the Vibb Eaters Mini stops vibrations from the transformer? I had vibration problems with my WA22 when I first got it, but it's been fine since I upgraded the power cord and added a power filter. A tech I know mentioned that I could open up the top and fill the compartment with something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-LBS-Glass-Bead-MIL-3-A-20-30-grit-Coarse-Media-Reborn-Doll-Abrasive-/121836693679





The effect from Vibb Eaters is significant in my case, obviously darker background, intensive layering/ dimensional experience resulted in better imaging delivery, refer to quote below, not only absorbing vibrations but also magnetic field interference.
 
 
Quoted from:
http://www.entreq.com/products/accessories-17667732
 
"*‘Vibb eaters’.... for electronic equipment.*

These have a special sand mixture which leans towards the optimisation of the magnetic characteristics. They still of course offer a greater stability to the chassis of the equipment as well as absorbing vibrations but the ‘Vibb eater’ also neutralises a part of the magnetic field from the electronic equipment. You will always have to experiment to find the optimal position for the ‘Vibb eater’ but we usually find the best place to start is closest to the power cable in-let or the products transformer."


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## Badas

ghhf said:


> leftside said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the Vibb Eaters Mini stops vibrations from the transformer? I had vibration problems with my WA22 when I first got it, but it's been fine since I upgraded the power cord and added a power filter. A tech I know mentioned that I could open up the top and fill the compartment with something like this:
> ...




Do you have any pics of them on your amp? I'm trying to get to grips with this whole concept. 

I've never heard about them before.


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## ghhf

badas said:


> Do you have any pics of them on your amp? I'm trying to get to grips with this whole concept.
> 
> I've never heard about them before.


 
  
 Some of my lab pics experimenting the combo WA22/ Vibb Eater and KK headphone.
  
 Isn't it cute?


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## Badas

ghhf said:


> Some of my lab pics experimenting the combo WA22/ Vibb Eater and KK headphone.
> 
> Isn't it cute?




Very cute.


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## ghhf

badas said:


> Very cute.





It is worth a try, the Vibb Eater can be used with various components (speaker, amp, power supply etc), the effect may vary with different placement position. I have a pairs of the cute, one is sitting on the WA22, another is hiding aside the AC power supply source.


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## abvolt

I'd be just a little skeptical thinking a bag of sand could improve sq in any way, but that's just me..Enjoy


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## MIKELAP

abvolt said:


> I'd be just a little skeptical thinking a bag of sand could improve sq in any way, but that's just me..Enjoy


 
 I totally agree


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## leftside

I think it's about stopping vibrations and therefore noise rather than direct sound quality?


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## Badas

leftside said:


> I think it's about stopping vibrations and therefore noise rather than direct sound quality?


 

 I think I will put a coaster and a beer on top to stop vibrations and see if that works. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 This might work as well.


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## ghhf

leftside said:


> I think it's about stopping vibrations and therefore noise rather than direct sound quality?




I find it much more than just absorbing vibrations, get some chance for a try to gain and trust your own experience, that makes more sense than million of words from others.
 
Perhaps those love and sensitive to crystal may experience significant effect


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## ghhf

badas said:


> I think I will put a coaster and a beer on top to stop vibrations and see if that works.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 This will work too .....


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## leftside

jhljhl said:


> How are the b65?


 
 I've got some black base B65's on order, so will be interesting to compare to the metal base B65's.


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## DejanM

Adding additional weight changes actually resonance frequency of the system: unit + underluying base. In some cases it can be very useful (in getting better sound quality) and in some cases it will not produce any audiable result. It all depends on the existing configuration.


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## jhljhl

leftside said:


> I've got some black base B65's on order, so will be interesting to compare to the metal base B65's.


 
 How they compare to ecc35? be interested to know thanks.


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## abvolt

mikelap said:


> I totally agree


 
  
 These bags of sand surely  would stop any vibrations plus helpful in case of flooding hehe..enjoy


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## Badas

leftside said:


> Maybe the Vibb Eaters Mini stops vibrations from the transformer? I had vibration problems with my WA22 when I first got it, but it's been fine since I upgraded the power cord and added a power filter. A tech I know mentioned that I could open up the top and fill the compartment with something like this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-LBS-Glass-Bead-MIL-3-A-20-30-grit-Coarse-Media-Reborn-Doll-Abrasive-/121836693679




I've been thinking about your power cord comment since reading it a while back. I've never been a power cord type of guy. I have a lot of Home Theater equipment and stock cables have worked fine. Crikey I have a US$35K projector and I'm using the stock cable. 

However I am strong believer of power conditioning. You can hear the results on speakers very clearly. More dynamic like they have more power supply.

I also get occasional humming from the WA22. Very random. Never any logic to it. So I may bite. What the hell. I might as well upgrade one cable out of my whole system. Especially after your comment and findings.

My very good local HT shop has a range of very good after market cables. So I will get what they recommend. I have power protection and conditioning covered as my WA22 is plugged into the Belkn pure AV on the bottom of this rack. When I use my HP gear none of the HT power amps are supplied power (it is button controllable) so there is no other power cord interference. Only essential HP power cords are active. You can program modes.


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## Badas

In other news I'm picking up a lightly used pair of Ether Flows tomorrow. I'm buying them. So they will be in my toolbox. 

Over the next little while I will report on the WA22 / Ether Flow pairing if anyone is interested. 

If the Ether Flow is as good as reported and I like I think the LCD-3s will be finding a new home. I'm not using them very often.


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## SP Wild

I am looking forward to sharing experiences of the 22 in this thread.  I haven't had any significant spare time to listen hours on end and compare to my other amps.
  
 But from the short experience I have with amp, I think I understand it's character.  It is the most different sounding amp I have heard in a long while.  The first word to come to my mind is vivid.  Going back to the Speedball Crack and Valhalla is a bit of a shock.  Both of those are audibly in a lower tier of performance....and the first sensation going back is Loosey Goosey, both of them.  Also Veiled.
  
 The closest in overall tonality that comes to mind would be the Lehmann Black Cube Linear  My Musical Fidelity and Valhalla 2 are leaner...both exhibiting the same basic 6922 tube characteristic.  The Speedball Crack and my Audio GD Phoenix have a similar tonality, both a tad warmer
  
 In terms of tube amps...this one seem to really put a grip on my headphones.  Midbass is solid state tight.  Treble is Solid state extended. midrange is full tube glory, lower mids AND uppermids.  I find tube amps tend to open either one or the other, not both at the same time.  So that is why this tube amp sounds so different to me.
  
 My main headphones at the moment are the HD650s, and less so the LCD2s because of weight and the need to always crank those up loud (I have the R1).
  
 Music at the Moment is 4 decades of top hits up till current top hits.  Streamed on Google play in Google browser, through to Reference 7 dac via latest XMOS usb spdif convertor from AudioGD.  Balanced into the WA22.
  
 I Like that I can utilize my balance DAC with single ended headphone plug...I think one of the biggest mistakes I made was going balanced and having to snip the ends of my headphone cables and re terminate.  Not sure if the fact that the single ended output is balanced to ground is of any asset...but the fact that I can utilize all 8 of my Multibit dac chips without having to snip my headphone cables is a significant variable.


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## abvolt

badas said:


> In other news I'm picking up a lightly used pair of Ether Flows tomorrow. I'm buying them. So they will be in my toolbox.
> 
> Over the next little while I will report on the WA22 / Ether Flow pairing if anyone is interested.
> 
> If the Ether Flow is as good as reported and I like I think the LCD-3s will be finding a new home. I'm not using them very often.


 
 I've been looking at those also let us know how you like them..enjoy


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## leftside

" I've never been a power cord type of guy. I have a lot of Home Theater equipment and stock cables have worked fine"
 I totally agree. It's the only "expensive" power cord I've purchased. I also have the Blue Circle BC 6000 power conditioner for the room with the WA22.


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## davehg

I have a few high end power cords I use on the WA22: a Cardas Golden reference, a Foundation Research LC2, and a few other cables. I can clearly hear differences between them, and prefer the LC2. Both cables retailed for about a grand but thanks to Audiogon I can get them for about $350. Power cables are something I would upgrade.

My experience with power conditioners are not positive. Everyone I have tried seems to suck the life out of the system. These have included PS Audio and Richard Gray. They were expensive and on everyone, the sound was worse. I did have my last room wired with a dedicated circuit and used Furutech AC receptacles and will do so in my next house remodel. 

I've learned over 20 years in this hobby to always keep your good interconnect and power cables. You always end up replacing them, and it usually costs more.


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## Badas

I've got the Ether Flows (extremely nice).
  
 Also got a set of TSRP 6SL7's for the WA22. Fun times.


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## abvolt

Awesome can't wait to hear your thoughts in comparison to your lcd3's, I see you've got the nighthawk's as well how do you like them..Enjoy


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## Badas

abvolt said:


> Awesome can't wait to hear your thoughts in comparison to your lcd3's, I see you've got the nighthawk's as well how do you like them..Enjoy


 

 First thoughts. LCD-3's are done. Flow is better in every way.
  
 Lov my Hawks. A very fun sounding HP. Not accurate in any way but fun and easy listening. I'm a fan.


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## Arcamera

The 22 is in the house. WooHoo!
  
 Now to sanctify the listening zone. Can I borrow some of those crystals from the previous page?


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## Arcamera

A couple of questions:
  
 Does anyone actually prefer the low-gain option? So far at least, I find the high-gain position to make the sound more immediate and defined.
  
 What do people use to tackle dust?


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## Badas

arcamera said:


> The 22 is in the house. WooHoo!
> 
> Now to sanctify the listening zone. Can I borrow some of those crystals from the previous page?


 
  
 Congrats dude. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






arcamera said:


> A couple of questions:
> 
> Does anyone actually prefer the low-gain option? So far at least, I find the high-gain position to make the sound more immediate and defined.
> 
> What do people use to tackle dust?


 
  
 It can really depend. It depends on tubes used and HP's.
  
 I find with some tubes there is no volume change between Hi and Low. With one set of tubes I actually had Low producing more volume than Hi.
  
 Really it is the subtle sound differences that are important. That really is up to the HP's themselves. At the moment I have one HP that virtually sounds the same on both Hi and Low however the other HP sounds better to my ears on Low. So yes at the moment I use Low. That is likely to change as I have replaced those HP's with the Ether Flow. So it need retesting.
  
 Point is. Listen to both and you decide which sounds best. If you change tubes or HP's re-evaluate.


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## abvolt

arcamera said:


> The 22 is in the house. WooHoo!
> 
> Now to sanctify the listening zone. Can I borrow some of those crystals from the previous page?


 
 awesome I'm sure you'll really love it's great sound..congrats & enjoy


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## ghhf

arcamera said:


> The 22 is in the house. WooHoo!
> 
> Now to sanctify the listening zone. Can I borrow some of those crystals from the previous page?


 
  
 Congratulations!
  
 I do have some more, sorry pics only, not for sale nor lend .... LOL


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## Arcamera

Happy to be part of the club. So far, just using stock tubes for the moment, it's wonderful.


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## abvolt

awesome as soon as you start upgrading your tubes you'll find very quickly how well the sq can change for the better..Enjoy the fun dude


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## HiFiGuy528

arcamera said:


> Happy to be part of the club. So far, just using stock tubes for the moment, it's wonderful.


 
  
 Congrats! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 We would love to see a pic or two of your system.


----------



## SP Wild

arcamera said:


> A couple of questions:
> 
> Does anyone actually prefer the low-gain option? So far at least, I find the high-gain position to make the sound more immediate and defined.
> 
> What do people use to tackle dust?




I think it's quite simple, treble is always more uninhibited with high output impedance on the transformer. Low output impedance always darkens, or smooth out the top end. Low z should be good for bright headphones. Otherwise if the impedsnce matches the high z, best left at that.


----------



## Badas

sp wild said:


> I think it's quite simple, treble is always more uninhibited with high output impedance on the transformer. Low output impedance always darkens, or smooth out the top end. Low z should be good for bright headphones. Otherwise if the impedsnce matches the high z, best left at that.


 

 Never really understood all this impedance stuff.
  
 What settings would you use on AudioQuest NightHawks and Ether Flow?
  
 NightHawks seem to sound the same on both Hi and Low.
 At this stage from listening I think the Flow might be better on Hi.
 So I was just going to use Hi on both.


----------



## Arcamera

hifiguy528 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks everyone. Here is a pic, along with a couple of other recent acquisitions: The Kennerton Odin and Kennerton Vali. So far, I LOVE these headphones.


----------



## Badas

arcamera said:


> Thanks everyone. Here is a pic, along with a couple of other recent acquisitions: The Kennerton Odin and Kennerton Vali. So far, I LOVE these headphones.


 
 Love it. Nice to see another black unit.
  
 Are you using a CD transport for serving your music?


----------



## Arcamera

badas said:


> Love it. Nice to see another black unit.
> 
> Are you using a CD transport for serving your music?


 

 Yeah, an Arcam CD37 SACD player. Old school. Still using CD's.


----------



## Badas

arcamera said:


> Yeah, an Arcam CD37 SACD player. Old school. Still using CD's.


 

 Old school but cool. Nothing wrong with it.
  
 I use a iPod. So even I don't use computer audio.


----------



## Badas

hifiguy528 said:


> Congrats!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice to see you found our little thread.


----------



## abvolt

awesome currently enjoying some smooth jazz from..enjoy


----------



## SP Wild

Thank goodness these HD800Ss actually sound somewhat musical with the WA22... Reduces it's sibilant nature and also helps with the obvious grain as a result if the treble peak.

Its not actually a bright headphone, merely a peak in a small area of treble. It is definitely not a low volume can. 

Because I put on the Grado HF2s and these seem bright... But, lower the volume and with the WA22... I love these cans. The uppermids are more complete, more wholesome with a nice bass punch. Electric guitars sound really nice, voices are nice and wholesome. Very engaging and musical headphone, out of any amp really, even more with the WA22. 

I really struggled to make any sense of the HD800S, as I did with the HD800, which was a terrible headphone. The HD800S doesn't actually offend, but out of my AGD Phoenix amp, my solid state reference, a musical, most un solid state like amp... It fails to excite my musical senses. I get the same sound with less treble grain with my used celestion speakers for merely a hundred bucks. Only the speakers are a bit better. This completely trashes the value proposition of the HD800S. 

However with the WA22... Thank goodness I can enjoy these cans. 

I am really enjoying music out of this amp. I wonder what they can do for my Denon D7000s... If only I can remember where I put them away.


----------



## Badas

I had a do nothing day yesterday. So why not? I did a massive 11 hour session on the WA22.

I was trying to evaluate my new Ether Flows. Bloody nice sounding HP, however to my ears it doesn't suit all music genres or artist. 
It's not a one HP fits all type. It will make certain music sound its best and certain artist sounded better than I've ever heard, however
other artist sounded better on the NightHawks.

I will just learn to swap.

The WA22 performed well yesterday. Sounded great. After all my pin cleaning efforts the other day it definitely helped.
I might be finding some WA22 love again. Not better than the V281 but still nice. I think I will reserve the WA22 for
massive music sessions only. 4 hours plus.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> I had a do nothing day yesterday. So why not? I did a massive 11 hour session on the WA22.
> 
> I was trying to evaluate my new Ether Flows. Bloody nice sounding HP, however to my ears it doesn't suit all music genres or artist.
> It's not a one HP fits all type. It will make certain music sound its best and certain artist sounded better than I've ever heard, however
> ...


 
  
 That's great dude an 11 hour session wow sounds fun, Now that you've had more time with your Flow's any regrets with replacing your lcd3's. I've been eyeing the Flow's for myself, just picked-up a pair of Focal Elear's and all I can say they are truly spectacular sounding, I'd say it's the best 1k I've ever spent on cans very pleased. Also been thinking about the nighthawks for my gaming rig reviews are great on those cans..enjoy


----------



## Badas

abvolt said:


> That's great dude an 11 hour session wow sounds fun, Now that you've had more time with your Flow's any regrets with replacing your lcd3's. I've been eyeing the Flow's for myself, just picked-up a pair of Focal Elear's and all I can say they are truly spectacular sounding, I'd say it's the best 1k I've ever spent on cans very pleased. Also been thinking about the nighthawks for my gaming rig reviews are great on those cans..enjoy




No regrets on letting the LCD-3's go. Flow runs circles around them. Elear was on my Shortlist. It was going to be Flow or Elear. I think I might put it on next years pickup.


----------



## cheeseeater

Hi. I am a recent WA22 owner. Purchased one used on Audiogon. I have a question about the off-high-low-off knob. I assumed the hi-low was in reference to gain, but in my amp there appears to be no difference at all between the two settings. Am I correct in thinking there should be an audible difference between these two? otherwise what's the point?


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> Hi. I am a recent WA22 owner. Purchased one used on Audiogon. I have a question about the off-high-low-off knob. I assumed the hi-low was in reference to gain, but in my amp there appears to be no difference at all between the two settings. Am I correct in thinking there should be an audible difference between these two? otherwise what's the point?


 

 Depends on the tubes. Some tubes produce more volume on one or the other. I have had some that have produced more volume on low than high. Some tubes sound exactly the same on both setting or very close.
  
 Best thing to do is when you change tubes re-evaluate. Let your ears decide.
  
 Congrats on the WA22. It's a nice amp.


----------



## Seamaster

badas said:


>


 
  
 That is a lots of weight on that bottom shelf!


----------



## Badas

seamaster said:


> That is a lots of weight on that bottom shelf!


 

 Shure is. The only way the gear can fit. Shelf is braced. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Bottom shelf is holding amps only. Players up the top are supported by the top shelf.
  
 Sounds freakin fantastic.


----------



## abvolt

very cool system dude..


----------



## jermaink

Has anyone from Woo formally commented about whether 6SL7/6SUGT/ECC35/ECC35 can be used in place of the 6SN7, without negative consequences?


----------



## MIKELAP

jermaink said:


> Has anyone from Woo formally commented about whether 6SL7/6SUGT/ECC35/ECC35 can be used in place of the 6SN7, without negative consequences?


 
 i asked about this a while ago this is Woo reply about 6SL7 i also used the 6SU7GT as for ECC35 im pretty sure it is plug&play but use the search function only one that needs an adapter is the ECC31/6N7 Type


----------



## leftside

ECC35 is one of the best tubes for the WA22.


----------



## Storegnu

Hi, guys!
  
 I bought the WA22 some time ago ago and have been using it with stock tubes. This is my first tube amplifier, so I am not very experienced in this tube rolling stuff. Right now I need some good advice on which tubes to use with my LCD-3, as I understand that better tubes really can improve the sound. 
  
 My WA22 is not totally "black" when not playing any music, I can hear a very faint "hum". Is this normal?
  
 My setup: Digital source --> Yggdrasil --> WA22 --> LCD3
  
 Nice to see that there is a thread for very nice amplifier!


----------



## Badas

storegnu said:


> Hi, guys!
> 
> I bought the WA22 some time ago ago and have been using it with stock tubes. This is my first tube amplifier, so I am not very experienced in this tube rolling stuff. Right now I need some good advice on which tubes to use with my LCD-3, as I understand that better tubes really can improve the sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes. That is normal with most tube amplifiers. It's usually transformer hum. I've found these things help reduce transformer hum. Plug amp directly into wall. Don't plug into spike protection or power conditioners (I don't know why it helps). Clean tube pins as best you can. It makes a difference. I personally get electrical contact cleaner in a can and spray cleaner on the pins until it drips in the stuff. Then wipe with a bud (Q-Tip I think). Then wait 30 minutes until pins are 100% dry. Then reinstall.
  
 Regarding tube rolling. Well that is a never ending journey. I will say if you have the GE 6080 stock power tubes that they are not bad. Sound good with LCD's. So change them last. Brimar 5Z4GY rectifiers are a nice upgrade. Easy to get from Langrex in the UK. Drivers I'm not going to comment too much. RCA6SN7's are cheap and easy to get. I personally use Tung-Sol round plate 6C8G's pictured below:


----------



## Arcamera

Still getting to know my new WA22 through some also new headphones. Loving the sound! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Happy listening, All!


----------



## Seamaster

leftside said:


> ECC35 is one of the best tubes for the WA22.


 

 Agree


----------



## abvolt

with out a doubt the ecc35's are the best sounding drivers for the wa22, also like the 31's & 32's..enjoy


----------



## Storegnu

Thanks for all the replies guys! 
  
 Would a good upgrade combination be: 
  
 - Tung Sol 5998 (which brand, does it matter?)
 - ECC35 (Philips, Adzam ect??)
 - Rectifier??
  
 And what to upgrade first? Or should I upgrade everything at once?


----------



## Storegnu

Edit: Double post.


----------



## leftside

storegnu said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys!
> 
> Would a good upgrade combination be:
> 
> ...


 
 That would be great with the LCD-3. My LCD-3's really appreciate the extra power of the TS 5998's. Also consider 4 * 6BL7's. Check earlier posts for details.
  
 The rectifier that Badas recommended is a good bang for the buck rectifier. Start with that one. I personally wouldn't spend too much on a rectifier. There is a big thread on here discussing the various rectifiers, but I couldn't hear most of the differences mentioned on that thread. All a rectifier does is control the voltage drop...
  
 A tube headphone amp will never be as quiet as a decent solid state amp. I also run a turntable and a tube phono preamp. In theory, it doesn't get much noisier than that, but really any "noise" is only barely audible during the quietest passages of the music. (Disclaimer: I'm going to demo a solid state Audia Flight phono preamp this weekend. More costly than my existing phono preamp, but will it sound as good?).


----------



## Badas

storegnu said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys!
> 
> Would a good upgrade combination be:
> 
> ...




Yes. It would be great. Very rare tubes tho. They are going up in price daily.

I would start with drivers first.


----------



## abvolt

That's an awesome pick I have all of them the ts 5998's along with the 35's are the best my amp has ever sounded don't forget 31's & 32's are also exceptional..enjoy


----------



## leftside

and 33's


----------



## abvolt

have not tried the 33's =6sn7gt mullard but would like to..


----------



## cheeseeater

Hi, all.  I have recently acquired a used WA22.  I got it used and I have no manual for it. Obviously the center tube is the rectifier. Because there is just one.  But which of the other sockets are driver/power? They are marked 6SN7 and 6080.  I was assuming that the 6SN7 was the driver socket but I'm not 100% sure.  
 Also, I am waiting for the arrival of a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and I am not sure whether I am supposed to use them as Power or as Driver tubes.  I know you guys can help me.
  
 p.s. Is there an online/pdf manual I can download?


----------



## MIKELAP

cheeseeater said:


> Hi, all.  I have recently acquired a used WA22.  I got it used and I have no manual for it. Obviously the center tube is the rectifier. Because there is just one.  But which of the other sockets are driver/power? They are marked 6SN7 and 6080.  I was assuming that the 6SN7 was the driver socket but I'm not 100% sure.
> Also, I am waiting for the arrival of a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and I am not sure whether I am supposed to use them as Power or as Driver tubes.  I know you guys can help me.
> 
> p.s. Is there an online/pdf manual I can download?


 
 http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa22.html


----------



## MIKELAP

Powers are in the back, rectifier is in the middle drivers each side of the rectifier .By the way welcome to the club


----------



## abvolt

Congrats on your new amp they are simply awesome sounding..enjoy


----------



## leftside

Tried out some black base Marconi B65's this evening. Very nice - silky smooth. Sound very similar to the more expensive metal base B65's. I'll be keeping these in the amp for a while.


----------



## daverich4

cheeseeater said:


> Hi, all.  I have recently acquired a used WA22.  I got it used and I have no manual for it. Obviously the center tube is the rectifier. Because there is just one.  But which of the other sockets are driver/power? They are marked 6SN7 and 6080.  I was assuming that the 6SN7 was the driver socket but I'm not 100% sure.
> Also, I am waiting for the arrival of a pair of Tung Sol 5998 and I am not sure whether I am supposed to use them as Power or as Driver tubes.  I know you guys can help me.
> 
> p.s. Is there an online/pdf manual I can download?




The 5998's are Power tubes. I really like the sound of mine.


----------



## cheeseeater

Thanks for all the helpful answers! I'm enjoying the wa22 already. Liking it much more than Cavalli Liquid Glass. 

So I've got great power tubes coming. Amy suggestions for drivers? What is the consensus about the driver upgrades offered by Woo?


----------



## leftside

Check out a few pages back for drivers. Also some good recommendations on the main Woo Audio thread and the 6SN7 thread.


----------



## cheeseeater

leftside said:


> Check out a few pages back for drivers. Also some good recommendations on the main Woo Audio thread and the 6SN7 thread.



Yeah. I was a bit embarrassed that after I asked the question I read the whole thread and discovered my question had already been answered. So I'm THAT guy. I am still curious though whether other wa22 owners think Woo Audio does a good job at finding premium tubes for upgrades or whether it's hype.


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> Yeah. I was a bit embarrassed that after I asked the question I read the whole thread and discovered my question had already been answered. So I'm THAT guy. I am still curious though whether other wa22 owners think Woo Audio does a good job at finding premium tubes for upgrades or whether it's hype.




My opinion is hype. Some he has previously chosen for the WA22 you would have to pay me to install and even then I would have a hard time installing them.


----------



## leftside

Woo is a good one stop shop for upgrading the tubes if you are fairly new to the tube scene. If you know your tubes, you can probably find better deals elsewhere.


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> My opinion is hype. Some he has previously chosen for the WA22 you would have to pay me to install and even then I would have a hard time installing them.


 
I like clear statements and that one is pretty clear.
My amp came with Shuguang cv181z and I think they're pretty good. As someone who has experimented WAY more than I have, would you say that I like the shuguang do much because I haven't heard enough?


----------



## Badas

cheeseeater said:


> I like clear statements and that one is pretty clear.
> My amp came with Shuguang cv181z and I think they're pretty good. As someone who has experimented WAY more than I have, would you say that I like the shuguang do much because I haven't heard enough?




I haven't heard the Shuguang CV181's. I dd early on listen to the Full Music CV181's. I think they come from the same factory. They didn't impress. At that stage I was trying to get away from brightness and enjoyed the RCA6SN7 type tubes. So I didn't use them long. 
I would recommend trying more NOS (New old stock) tubes. Nearly always they beat new production tubes*.

*With the exception of new production Takasuzuki and EML tubes. EML doesn't make tubes for the WA22.


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> Tried out some black base Marconi B65's this evening. Very nice - silky smooth. Sound very similar to the more expensive metal base B65's. I'll be keeping these in the amp for a while.


 
  
 Very cool I'll bet those are hard to find..


----------



## leftside

I've been demoing a solid state Audia Flight phono preamp for the past couple of days. At first I couldn't tell much difference between it and the existing tubed Allnic H-1201, but gradually I could start to hear an extra depth to the music and an extra clarity, but the differences were subtle.
  
 The WA22 is very quiet with the current set of tubes and this solid state phono preamp. Even with the WA22 turned up to the max and my preamp turned up to the max (and no music playing) I can only hear a slight hiss - and this is with a turntable as input!
  
 The WA22 will highlight/reveal whatever there is lower down the chain. For these reasons, and as much as I love the Allnic, I will be keeping the Audia Flight. I don't feel I'm losing anything and I did get a few gains in other areas.


----------



## leftside

I've started posting up pics of various different 6BL7 tubes if anyone is interested. These will give your WA22 nice clean power. I've been running 4 for almost a year now.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/806043/for-6bl7-tube-users/345#post_13119511


----------



## AlexDDD

Hello everybody! 
I would like to ask if somebody could recommend me a good new production power tube for the WA 22 and where can I get it(preferable across Europe).


----------



## leftside

That's a good question. We know of plenty of new production rectifiers and driver tubes, but not power. I can't think of any. Anyone else?


----------



## 2K9R56S

I've had my WA22 for about 2 years now.  Prior to it I had a Little Dot MKVI+ and acquired several pairs of power and driver tubes that I kept when I sold off the LD.  My first Woo and first tube amp was a WA6, which was sold to buy the LD.  Anyway, I've got a few hundred hours on the WA22 now.  Its Pros outweigh its Cons, and it's a piece of equipment I'm definitely holding onto for a long time.  At least until the Powerball office pool hits.
  
 I'm using an Oppo HA-1 as a preamp/DAC which is being fed from an Oppo BDP-105, JRiver on a dying Mac Mini, CD changer and a Budgie phono preamp.
  
 I can't paint the sound picture with an audiophile adjective glossary brush.  All I can say is, I like its overall sound compared to the other amps I've owned in the past.  Using the stock tubes as a baseline, tube rolling has been part of the fun of making it sound even better.  Add to that the fit & finish, build and material quality, USA made and Woo's customer service.
  
 Cons and/or nitpicks...  I don't like the stepped volume attenuator.  My WA6 didn't have one so I wasn't expecting this to have one.  These days it looks like they're sold without them.  Oh well.  Also I think it's a bit underpowered with my LCD2s and 600Ohm DT990s (even with 5998 tubes) for my volume level preference.  It will drive them, but not as effortlessly as my Mjolnir 2 does.
  
 Lastly, I could never get a Sophia Princess 274B to work in it.  All my other rectifiers of varying age and price work fine.  My original Sophia cut the volume output in half and would emit a blip of static with each volume step.  I sent it back and the replacement I got did the same thing while the glow would alternate from bright to dim.  Woo's suggestion was to try it with the stock power and driver tubes, no dice.  Sophia Electric suggested I have my amplifier repaired immediately and claimed that the original tube I sent to them for replacement was charred on the inside and filled with black smoke.  Complete BS.  So the replacement went on eBay with this story and a disclaimer.  A WA6 owner bought it and it works perfectly for him.
  
 Current setup pic.


----------



## leftside

What are those two tube devices below the Woo?


----------



## 2K9R56S

leftside said:


> What are those two tube devices below the Woo?


 
  
 Mjonlir2 sitting atop a 1 In / 4 Out XLR switchbox.
  
http://www.diyaudioblog.com/2016/11/balanced-audio-switchbox-audiophile.html


----------



## abvolt

2k9r56s said:


> Current setup pic.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice looking set-up..


----------



## davehg

leftside said:


> That's a good question. We know of plenty of new production rectifiers and driver tubes, but not power. I can't think of any. Anyone else?




I just use the Mullard 6080s from Langrex in the UK


----------



## abvolt

davehg said:


> I just use the Mullard 6080s from Langrex in the UK


 
 I do agree that's an excellent sounding power tube..


----------



## AlexDDD

Do you have the option to get them already in matched pairs?


----------



## Oskari

alexddd said:


> Hello everybody!
> I would like to ask if somebody could recommend me a good new production power tube for the WA 22 and where can I get it(preferable across Europe).







leftside said:


> That's a good question. We know of plenty of new production rectifiers and driver tubes, but not power. I can't think of any. Anyone else?




There is no 6AS7G/6080 in current production, AFAIK.


----------



## beaux

WA22 is a nice pair to hd800/T1. Tubes is a huuuuge investment....


----------



## abvolt

The wa22 is a truly amazing sounding amp with the right tubes that is..enjoy


----------



## Abcidian

Hello all. My first post on a forum on Head-Fi. In two days I will be in possession of a 2011 model year WA22. I have a single ended Linn Linto phono stage so I know I will not be using the amp to its full potential since it is a balanced amp. Any advice if I should be looking for a new phono stage with balanced outputs or send my WA22 back to Woo to get the phase splitters installed for $250 plus shipping both ways. Any suggestions for the best bang for the buck. Balanced phono stages can be hard to find unless you pay big money. Thanks.


----------



## davehg

I use an EAR 834P with my WA22, and save the balanced inputs for my digital player. The sound was significantly better with balanced digital sources, and tube phono stages with balanced outputs are expensive. I love the sound of the EAR with the WA22


----------



## leftside

Yeah, don't worry about it. I feed my phono stage into a preamp and go balanced from there. It sounds great! Tubes + vinyl is amazing. 

I've still yet to beat the sound of my turntable rig into the WA22. Most DAC's sound too bright. (but a recently acquired Lampizator DAC is getting close to the sound of my turntable setup...)


----------



## Abcidian

Thanks for the advice. I think I will be sending the amp back to Woo to have the phase splitters installed to bring it up to current specs. Mike at Woo said no other hardware changes are required to bring it up to the current model level. They will also check it out to make sure it doesn't have any other issues so that will give me piece of mind as well. This will save me money which I can put towards a good set of headphones.


----------



## Abcidian

WA22 picked up today. Now I need to find some headphones that will mate well.


----------



## JackDiesel

abcidian said:


> WA22 picked up today. Now I need to find some headphones that will mate well.




Which rectifier is that?


----------



## Abcidian

I bought the amp used (2011 model) and was provided with the stock tubes or something similar in sound quality. I'm new to the tube world and all it says on the tube is 5U4-GB and HIT RAY below that with a circle type symbol in between the HIT RAY. Hitachi?


----------



## abvolt

abcidian said:


> I bought the amp used (2011 model) and was provided with the stock tubes or something similar in sound quality. I'm new to the tube world and all it says on the tube is 5U4-GB and HIT RAY below that with a circle type symbol in between the HIT RAY. Hitachi?


 
  
 Looks good congrats & welcome to the club..enjoy


----------



## MIKELAP

abcidian said:


> I bought the amp used (2011 model) and was provided with the stock tubes or something similar in sound quality. I'm new to the tube world and all it says on the tube is 5U4-GB and HIT RAY below that with a circle type symbol in between the HIT RAY. Hitachi?


 
 You got the one from Canuck Audio Mart right ?


----------



## Abcidian

Yes. I've been looking for over a month. You would think that when you place a wanted ad you would get lots of replies. You seem to get a lot more when you are selling stuff. Strange.


----------



## leftside

Congrats - there's a few of us living in Canada on here. You'll  get lot's of opinion on here regarding suitable headphones. I use the LCD3F, but with planar headphones they like power tubes such as 5998's, 4 * 6BL7's and driver tubes with a little more gain like the ECC33.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Congrats - there's a few of us living in Canada on here. You'll  get lot's of opinion on here regarding suitable headphones. I use the LCD3F, but with planar headphones they like power tubes such as 5998's, 4 * 6BL7's and driver tubes with a little more gain like the ECC33.


 

 I use the Ether Flow and 6080 power tubes. Barely get above half way on the volume.
 I think the new generation planar is not as power hungry as they use to be.


----------



## Abcidian

Once I settle on a set of headphones my tube rolling journey will begin!!!


----------



## Badas

abcidian said:


> Once I settle on a set of headphones my tube rolling journey will begin!!!


 

 What do you have your eyes on?


----------



## Abcidian

Lot's of good feedback on the Focal Elear. Hifiman and Audeze seem to be well reviewed as well. I don't want to make mistakes and buy the best I can afford to avoid buying and selling to get to the end game.


----------



## Badas

abcidian said:


> Lot's of good feedback on the Focal Elear. Hifiman and Audeze seem to be well reviewed as well. I don't want to make mistakes and buy the best I can afford to avoid buying and selling to get to the end game.


 

 Nice. Focal Elear will match nicely. There is a active member on this forum that has the Elear/WA22 combo.
  
 I had the Elear on my to do list this year. However I have now taken it off. Ether Flow is too good to justify another purchase.


----------



## leftside

abcidian said:


> Lot's of good feedback on the Focal Elear. Hifiman and Audeze seem to be well reviewed as well. I don't want to make mistakes and buy the best I can afford to avoid buying and selling to get to the end game.


 
 Do the same with tubes


----------



## MIKELAP

abcidian said:


> Yes. I've been looking for over a month. You would think that when you place a wanted ad you would get lots of replies. You seem to get a lot more when you are selling stuff. Strange.


 
 Weird indeed, i had the WA2 for sale right on top of the WA22 add on Canuck,but changed my mind and decided to keep it for now it is a very nice sounding amp even if i also own a WA22


----------



## 2K9R56S

The Elear pairs nicely with the WA22.  I'm still waiting on my balanced Norne cable to arrive, so I've only been able to use them with the stock SE cable.


----------



## SP Wild

My Wa22 runs the stock tubes, it's got a smooth volume control with phase splitters already. It's a very middle of the road amp, neither warm nor bright. It doesn't sound all that tubey to be honest. I still kinda miss the sound of my old Cayin HA1A tube amp, which sounded like an output transformer coupled speedball crack. 

However this WA22 is by far the most transparent tube amp. I am thinking maybe some low gain tubes might help lower a negligible transformer hum, doesn't worry me too much. The old Cayin hummed much more, I sold it because of that and regretted it so much, a noob toob mistake.


----------



## abvolt

2k9r56s said:


> The Elear pairs nicely with the WA22.  I'm still waiting on my balanced Norne cable to arrive, so I've only been able to use them with the stock SE cable.


 
 Agreed they sound amazing with my wa22..


----------



## cheeseeater

Does anyone have any idea how many hours to expect from Tung-sol 5998?


----------



## davehg

badas said:


> Nice. Focal Elear will match nicely. There is a active member on this forum that has the Elear/WA22 combo.
> 
> I had the Elear on my to do list this year. However I have now taken it off. Ether Flow is too good to justify another purchase.


 

 ​I listened to both the Ether Flow and the Elear on the Woo WA5 - very much preferred the Ether. The bass response was not as deep as the Elear, but midrange and top end were really nice.
  
 If you are starting from scratch and don't want to spend more than $1k, the Elear is a nice choice. At $1500-$2000, I am looking at Ether or LCD3 (not the 2, but maybe the LCDX ), both of which would mate well with the WA22.


----------



## Badas

davehg said:


> ​I listened to both the Ether Flow and the Elear on the Woo WA5 - very much preferred the Ether. The bass response was not as deep as the Elear, but midrange and top end were really nice.
> 
> If you are starting from scratch and don't want to spend more than $1k, the Elear is a nice choice. At $1500-$2000, I am looking at Ether or LCD3 (*not the 2, but maybe the LCDX *), both of which would mate well with the WA22.


 
  
 I used the LCD-X for over a year. It is very nice with the WA22. I much preferred the LCD-X than the LCD-3.


----------



## Abcidian

I'm mostly considering the Elear due to price and the reviews. The Audeze and Mr Speakers are also a possibility if I can find some used. Living in Canada buying new is expensive. Not only do we have the exchange rate buy we have an additional mark-up due to the higher cost of living. In general we can pay as much as 50% more than in the US. Keep the free advice coming. It isn't affected by the exchange rate!


----------



## abvolt

cheeseeater said:


> Does anyone have any idea how many hours to expect from Tung-sol 5998?


 
  
 That would be almost impossible to say since most of them will be used no telling how much time is already on the tubes finding a true nos tube is unlikely but you'll probably get a few 1000 hours, the ts 5998 is one of my favorites..enjoy


----------



## Abcidian

Looking at a used pair of Hifiman HE-560 headphones. Any impressions on them especially when paired with the WA22? They may not be a TOTL headphone but I'm thinking for my budget and a first set of headphones they may be a good place to start. Any advice?


----------



## cheeseeater

abcidian said:


> Looking at a used pair of Hifiman HE-560 headphones. Any impressions on them especially when paired with the WA22? They may not be a TOTL headphone but I'm thinking for my budget and a first set of headphones they may be a good place to start. Any advice?


have you auditioned them? It can cost more in the long run sometimes if you start low on the ladder because upgrades can be inevitable.


----------



## abvolt

Isn't that so true..


----------



## Abcidian

​I have not. Other than my friends Blue Hawaii SE and Stax SR009 I really don't have any kind of reference point. Of course they won't be in the same league as the Stax but I do know what can be achieved. I'm basing my interest of reviews and feedback. Sounds like in general they were liked but do have some limitations but every pair of headphones and pairing amp will. For $1000 less than a new pair of Focal Elears they may be a good entry level set to get me started.


----------



## abvolt

I have the he-500's and can tell you the Elear's are miles better in sq haven't heard the he-560's so I can't comment on them I would say for a little more $$ you'd be happier with the Elear's over the he-560's just my opinion..enjoy


----------



## Abcidian

​I'm sure they are. Thanks for the feedback. I checked with a local dealer and they don't even have the Elears in stock.


----------



## Badas

abcidian said:


> ​I'm sure they are. Thanks for the feedback. I checked with a local dealer and they don't even have the Elears in stock.


 

 Lots of dealers are having problems keeping them in stock. The Elears haven't even made our country yet.
 I have had a listen to the Utopia tho. A mate has a pair. Very, very nice.


----------



## leftside

If you can get a good deal on the 560's then go for it. They would make a fantastic set of first headphones.


----------



## AlexDDD

Has anyone tested some 5998A tubes on the Wa22?
 I know they are not the same with 5998, but are they worthy?
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Badas

alexddd said:


> Has anyone tested some 5998A tubes on the Wa22?
> I know they are not the same with 5998, but are they worthy?
> Thanks in advance!


 

  
 If you mean these then they are not much different than the GE6AS7GA. I use GE6AS7GA's. To my ear they are the nicer of the cheaper 6080/6AS7G type of tubes (I tried a lot). They are not worth paying high prices tho. $40-$60 would be okay. I purchased 16 sets at about the $25.00 per set range.
  
 In my amp:
  

  
  
 The 5998A is no where as nice sounding as a Chatham or Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## abvolt

I agree with most others I've owned 3 sets of the 5998a's and after a while I sold them, their nothing even close to the ts 5998's my favorites, Try a mullard 6080 I really enjoy them..


----------



## AlexDDD

badas said:


> If you mean these then they are not much different than the GE6AS7GA. I use GE6AS7GA's. To my ear they are the nicer of the cheaper 6080/6AS7G type of tubes (I tried a lot). They are not worth paying high prices tho. $40-$60 would be okay. I purchased 16 sets at about the $25.00 per set range.
> 
> In my amp:
> 
> ...


 
 Are you using adapters for the 5998a? Aren^t they compatible with the standard sockets?


----------



## Badas

alexddd said:


> Are you using adapters for the 5998a? Aren^t they compatible with the standard sockets?




Yeah the 5998 is compatible with the standard socket. I use tube saves. If a pin breaks it wrecks the save but protects my socket. So no costly repair.


----------



## cheeseeater

badas said:


> Yeah the 5998 is compatible with the standard socket. I use tube saves. If a pin breaks it wrecks the save but protects my socket. So no costly repair.



Where did you get those beautiful socket saves?


----------



## Abcidian

Well I finally have the initial pieces put together. For the first time last Saturday I heard music flow through my system again. I made the choice to buy a used pair of HD-650s with a 4 pin XLR Blue Dragon ten foot cable. To tell the truth I could be happy listening to it just as it is. Down the road the tube rolling and the search for the ultimate (within my budget) headphones will begin. I decided not to send my WA22 back to Woo to get the phase splitters installed. Instead I found what I believe to be at least an equivalent phono stage with balanced outputs that should help to drive this balanced beast to its full potential. My new phono stage is on its way to me so the wait continues to hear what kind of improvements it will bring. Happy listening!


----------



## leftside

What phono stage and turntable setup do you have?


----------



## Abcidian

​I have a Linn LP-12 Lingo with and Alphason HR100MCS arm with a Lyra Helikon cartridge. I am using a Linn Linto phono stage which will go to the new owner tomorrow. My new to me PSAudio GCPH phono stage is now on its way to me. I will be without music until late next week.


----------



## abvolt

abcidian said:


> ​I have a Linn LP-12 Lingo with and Alphason HR100MCS arm with a Lyra Helikon cartridge. I am using a Linn Linto phono stage which will go to the new owner tomorrow. My new to me PSAudio GCPH phono stage is now on its way to me. I will be without music until late next week.


 
 Wow I'll bet that's nice..


----------



## Abcidian

​I do like the sound of analog. I'm in the Linn camp where I believe that the source is the most important part of a system. Gear downstream can't compensate for anything that is missing or lacking from the source. That's why I chose the amp before the headphones. I see that many of the members hear have multiple sets of headphones to obtain different qualities of sound. That is what I find interesting about getting into headphones. The same goes for the WA22. We can alter the sound without buying another amp. If anyone wants to post their favourite tubes for the WA22 that would be helpful. Maybe the best sound, best bang for the buck etc. I am new to tubes so I would like some advice to upgrade from the stock set.


----------



## leftside

I've also typically preferred analog, but my new Lampizator DAC is giving my vinyl rig a run for its money.


----------



## Abcidian

​I own quite a few CD's with most purchased in the 90's when the digital age was coming on strong. I have a older Cambridge Audio CD4 player that I have considered using it as a transport and adding a good DAC to it to see what kind of improvements that will bring. Lots of options in the digital domain I'm sure.


----------



## Abcidian

Does anyone know if this tube is safe to use in the WA22 and what types of sound qualities I could expect?
  
 Psvane 5U4G
  
 This is text from the website:
  
_New ‘affordable and most reliable’ rectifier tube added – Psvane HiFi 5U4G
 Posted on January 15, 2016 by admin
 psvane 5U4G single - largeThis Psvane HiFi series 5U4G is claimed by factory as ‘the most reliable and affordable rectifier tube ever made’. It is a replica of NOS Phico black plate 5U4G rectifier, but maintained a very friendly price tag.

 Rectifier tube is probably the most ‘consumed’ tube on a tube rectified amplifier. It will need to be replaced more frequently than a power tube over time, so reliability and price are both sensitive factors for tube amp owners. Now Psvane is offering a new option for tube amp owners who are not only cost conscious, but also sound driven. Click here to order yours._


----------



## Badas

abcidian said:


> Does anyone know if this tube is safe to use in the WA22 and what types of sound qualities I could expect?
> 
> Psvane 5U4G
> 
> ...


 

 5U4G is on the WA22 list. Amp and circuit is suppose to be designed for it.
  
 However.....
  
 I have had bad experiences around Psvane. Actually all Chinese new production tubes. I've tried a few like Psvane and TJ's Full music.
 There has been some fireworks.
  
 If you like your amp I would suggest you avoid.


----------



## Abcidian

​Thanks Badas. Sounds like good advice. I saw an ad for $50 Cdn and thought it might be worth trying. Not a good deal if it leads to a catastrophe!


----------



## Badas

abcidian said:


> ​Thanks Badas. Sounds like good advice. I saw an ad for $50 Cdn and thought it might be worth trying. Not a good deal if it leads to a catastrophe!


 

 I saw the result on a WA5. Blew the caps out. Leaked liquid all over the place and did smoke damage to the room. It did eventually get re-capped and repaired.
  
 I had a Psvane 274B replica blow and a TJ Full 6SN7 music stopped 10 hours in.
  
 After I saw what happen to my mates WA5. I went home and threw all my Psvanes in the bin.
  
 I didn't want this:


----------



## IndieGradoFan

abcidian said:


> ​Thanks Badas. Sounds like good advice. I saw an ad for $50 Cdn and thought it might be worth trying. Not a good deal if it leads to a catastrophe!


 

 I've used the Psvane 274B WE 1:1 replica and a pair of the CV-181ii in my WA22. Both work great and I have no complaints. I eventually upgraded to a WE 422A rectifier and a pair of Tung-Sol 6F8G BGRPs. I haven't heard of major reliability issues with Psvane, Tony's / Badas's experience notwithstanding. YMMV.


----------



## ghhf

indiegradofan said:


> I've used the Psvane 274B WE 1:1 replica and a pair of the CV-181ii in my WA22. Both work great and I have no complaints. I eventually upgraded to a WE 422A rectifier and a pair of Tung-Sol 6F8G BGRPs. I haven't heard of major reliability issues with Psvane, Tony's / Badas's experience notwithstanding. YMMV.


 
  
 Same here, the stock Psvane 300B and Psvane 5U4G pairs come with my WA5 worked brilliant for over a month since open box in Jan 2017


----------



## leftside

No probs with the Psvane here. There seems to be some people on here who blow up their amps/tubes more than others


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> No probs with the Psvane here. There seems to be some people on here who blow up their amps/tubes more than others


 

 Every other tube I have tried has been fine. Occasionally the odd noisy tube. I have rolled a lot of tubes.
 However the Chinese tubes blew or lasted 10 hours. All other tubes since has been fine.
  
 I wonder if it is our voltage? We are 230-240V.


----------



## N15M0

Can anyone tell me how the wa22 pair with the HD800s and LCD3? Thanks.


----------



## leftside

Great with LCD3, although you might want to use higher gain tubes such as power tubes such as 5998's, 4 * 6BL7's and/or driver tubes such as ECC33's.


----------



## Badas

n15m0 said:


> Can anyone tell me how the wa22 pair with the HD800s and LCD3? Thanks.


 

 I ran my WA22 with the LCD-3 for over a year. Very nice.


----------



## N15M0

How's it compared with other tube amp like eddie current ZDS and the dragon inspire? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Badas

It looks nice and sounds goodish. However it bloody hums. Sometimes I find this amp very fustraiting. 

I wanted something different. So I ripped out the TAK274B and TSRP's and installed the 596 and compatable drivers. 

I think the TAK has the edge. One thing I noted is when you get to a certain level of tubes on the WA22 the sound is not all that different. I think the caps restrict tube differences to show. Not a Tubey sounding amp. 

I think it is the TS power tubes being noisy. So my next session I will try 6BL7 power tubes. They are usually dead quiet and silky sounding. Let's see what they do.

If I don't hear magic from the 6BL7 I will just revert back to my benchmark tubes. TAK, TS and GE.


----------



## davehg

abcidian said:


> Well I finally have the initial pieces put together. For the first time last Saturday I heard music flow through my system again. I made the choice to buy a used pair of HD-650s with a 4 pin XLR Blue Dragon ten foot cable. To tell the truth I could be happy listening to it just as it is.




That is my other setup. The combo of HDs with the WA22 and Blue Dragon is a keeper. If you come across a set of Cardas clear balanced cables, you'll have the perfect system to take you off the merry go round, as they are a bit better than the blue dragons, but of course much pricier, so look for a bargain.


----------



## Abcidian

davehg said:


> That is my other setup. The combo of HDs with the WA22 and Blue Dragon is a keeper. If you come across a set of Cardas clear balanced cables, you'll have the perfect system to take you off the merry go round, as they are a bit better than the blue dragons, but of course much pricier, so look for a bargain.


 

 ​Thanks for the advice. Something to watch for. I hope to receive my XLR interconnects soon so that I can finally run my WA22 fully balanced. My amp doesn't have the phase splitter so I'm not getting the most out of it right now running it single ended from my phono stage.


----------



## Badas

Okay 6BL7 fixed everything. Damn 6BL7 is a great tube for the WA22.

It fixed the hum/buzzing I was hearing with the other power tubes. It finially gave me what I was listening for as well. Super lushness that tube amps are known for. 

This sound might actually compete with my SS amp now. The V281. At least it sounds different enough. I have a real love/hate relationship with the WA22 and after getting the V281 I have a hard time hearing a reason that tells me to keep it.

I'm using the flat plate 6BL7.

Another surprise is the humble, easily available RCA 6SN7 teams up well with the 596. I've got bucket loads of RCA 6SN7's.


----------



## abvolt

badas said:


> It looks nice and sounds goodish. However it bloody hums. Sometimes I find this amp very fustraiting.
> 
> I wanted something different. So I ripped out the TAK274B and TSRP's and installed the 596 and compatable drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Just ordered a pair of tube adapters so I can use 4 6BL7's anxious to hear the differences, I'd sure like to hear the TAK just a bit on the pricey side for me..enjoy


----------



## leftside

The only problem I've found with the 6BL7 or 6BX7 is finding 4 that perfectly match construction wise. There are lots of slight variations, but I have a few matching quads now. Maybe that is just my slight OCD and perhaps it doesn't matter too much.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> The only problem I've found with the 6BL7 or 6BX7 is finding 4 that perfectly match construction wise. There are lots of slight variations, but I have a few matching quads now. Maybe that is just my slight OCD and perhaps it doesn't matter too much.




I've mixed them up. Sometimes on purpose to mix sounds. X plates and flat plates on the same adapter.


----------



## Abcidian

Finally received my XLR interconnects today. Now I can listen fully balanced. Played three albums and the initial impression is obviously more gain but I did notice that the HD650's were definitely sounding better. More open and the veil has lifted. First was Led Zep 3, then Pink Floyd Animals and to wrap it up Santana Supernatural. Enjoyed them all!


----------



## abvolt

abcidian said:


> Finally received my XLR interconnects today. Now I can listen fully balanced. Played three albums and the initial impression is obviously more gain but I did notice that the HD650's were definitely sounding better. More open and the veil has lifted. First was Led Zep 3, then Pink Floyd Animals and to wrap it up Santana Supernatural. Enjoyed them all!


 
 I agree my wa22 is balanced from dac to amp then hp's is the only way to go, way more power from the amp i'm in the 9 to 11 oclock range which is high volume on low gain..enjoy


----------



## latestyle

Hi, guys. How hot does WA22 get in an office desktop setting? It would be fine now but during summer... =/


----------



## Badas

latestyle said:


> Hi, guys. How hot does WA22 get in an office desktop setting? It would be fine now but during summer... =/


 

 I'm in summer now. It doesn't get that hot.
  
 If you are worried about it run 6BL7 power tubes. Great sound (one of the best) and it runs the amp cool. My DAC gets warmer than my tube amp using 6BL7's.
 6BL7 should be labeled a supertube.


----------



## latestyle

badas said:


> I'm in summer now. It doesn't get that hot.
> 
> If you are worried about it run 6BL7 power tubes. Great sound (one of the best) and it runs the amp cool. My DAC gets warmer than my tube amp using 6BL7's.
> 6BL7 should be labeled a supertube.


 
 Thanks for the comment and recommendation!


----------



## cheeseeater

Does anyone else hear a hum through their headphones even when the power is off, the power cord is not connected, the xlr cable are disconnected and the tubes are cold? I'm thinking I have a capacitor issue.


----------



## abvolt

weird never heard something like that not sure..could it be your ears?


----------



## cheeseeater

abvolt said:


> weird never heard something like that not sure..could it be your ears?



When I disconnect the headphone cable from the wa22 the him disappears?


----------



## cheeseeater

cheeseeater said:


> When I disconnect the headphone cable from the wa22 the him disappears?


 
Hum. Not "him."a


----------



## abvolt

you may be right the only thing that I'm aware of storing power is the caps may be someone with more knowledge could chime in..enjoy


----------



## Abcidian

I'm looking for some advice. I may be able to pick up these tubes from a local seller. Would these be a solid upgrade from the stock tubes in my WA22? Rectifier - GEC u52 5U4G and Driver - Tung Sol VT231. Any advice would be appreciated before I pull the trigger.


----------



## Badas

abcidian said:


> I'm looking for some advice. I may be able to pick up these tubes from a local seller. Would these be a solid upgrade from the stock tubes in my WA22? Rectifier - GEC u52 5U4G and Driver - Tung Sol VT231. Any advice would be appreciated before I pull the trigger.




Yes. Fantastic tubes and would certainly give a more mellow lush sound. Check that the Tung-Sol's are round plates. TS comes in round and flat with a ladder effect. Round is way better.


----------



## Abcidian

Thanks. I'll ask for sure. If they are flat are they still a good option?


----------



## SP Wild

The hum is getting louder on the right channel in mine. So I figure better do some kinda diagnostics. 

Turn off let it the tubes cool to switch power tubes around as tapping those when powered on transfers the most microphonics... Particularly the right one....

And whaddaya know... The base metal on the right tube is loose. Must've been dropped in its previous life.


----------



## abvolt

sp wild said:


> The hum is getting louder on the right channel in mine. So I figure better do some kinda diagnostics.
> 
> Turn off let it the tubes cool to switch power tubes around as tapping those when powered on transfers the most microphonics... Particularly the right one....
> 
> And whaddaya know... The base metal on the right tube is loose. Must've been dropped in its previous life.


 
 So it's a tube your saying that has happened to many times, currently one of my ts 5998's are doing that same thing too bad for me because they are a pricey tube..enjoy it's a wonderful hobby


----------



## leftside

abvolt said:


> So it's a tube your saying that has happened to many times, currently one of my ts 5998's are doing that same thing too bad for me because they are a pricey tube..enjoy it's a wonderful hobby


 
 I also really like the TS 5998 sound, but don't like the price. Time for some 6BL7's maybe


----------



## SP Wild

I guess for the WA22 it's worth a matched pair of TS5998. 

Got me thinking, should we stick up on NOS tubes now before they become unaffordable in a few short year? 

Maybe the Russian and Chinese tubes will get better? Are they still using tubes in the military? 

What will happen when we run out of tubes? 

Might as well end the misery now... A future without tubes is a bleak future that I want no part if... Goodbye world. 





Not.


----------



## abvolt

It's time to stock up on the really great tubes as I'm doing..before they are so high priced no one can afford them..enjoy


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> I also really like the TS 5998 sound, but don't like the price. Time for some 6BL7's maybe


 
  
 I should be getting my adapters so I can run 4 6bl7's sometime next week, interested in seeing how they compare with my ts 5998's in sq which is my current favorite power tube..enjoy


----------



## leftside

Mixing a modern DAC, preamp and headphone amp with 1950's tubes isn't a bad combo.


----------



## SP Wild

Schiit man. Matched pair of TS 5998 will set me back like nearly 500 bucks delivered. 

I could probably get a used technics 1200 turntable for that price. 

I think prices for a top schiit big middle tube is also frightening.


----------



## abvolt

yes they do that but there sound Oh Yeah simply excellent..enjoy


----------



## SP Wild

Dammit abvolt! That wasn't the answer I wanted to hear... 

I'll set aside a budget for some nice tubes in all the tube holes, you guys leave me no choice. It'll be you guys fault when I'm homeless in the street with a WA22 amplifier and NOS tubes... Not even any headphones because I had to sell those to buy the tubes.


----------



## rudra

sp wild said:


> Schiit man. Matched pair of TS 5998 will set me back like nearly 500 bucks delivered.
> 
> I could probably get a used technics 1200 turntable for that price.
> 
> I think prices for a top schiit big middle tube is also frightening.




What !!!! I bought 3x at $130 per tube about a week ago. Check the FS thread. The same guy I purchased from ebay is selling them

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk


----------



## SP Wild

rudra said:


> What !!!! I bought 3x at $130 per tube about a week ago. Check the FS thread. The same guy I purchased from ebay is selling them
> 
> Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk




Just 2 years ago you'd be right wheb the Australian dollar held parity with the US dollar. Today it is near enough 500 dollars delivered.

Actually... You're talking thrice whilst I said twice... Hmm some shopping around needs to be done me thinks.


----------



## rudra

sp wild said:


> Just 2 years ago you'd be right wheb the Australian dollar held parity with the US dollar. Today it is near enough 500 dollars delivered.
> 
> Actually... You're talking thrice whilst I said twice... Hmm some shopping around needs to be done me thinks.


 

 Hey Mate, I paid US$135/tube. I know some of them are selling them for $US200.


----------



## SP Wild

rudra said:


> Hey Mate, I paid US$130/tube. I know some of them are selling them for $US200.




Which part of the FS forums are the tubes at?


----------



## rudra

Cables, Speakers, Tweaks, Accessories For Sale
  
 checked my paypal invoice, I paid US$135


----------



## SP Wild

Cheers rudra!


----------



## leftside

I was playing around with various tube combos this weekend. With a few tube combos I was getting an almost complete black background (even with volume at max). What have other people's experiences been with a black background with a WA 22?


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> I was playing around with various tube combos this weekend. With a few tube combos I was getting an almost complete black background (even with volume at max). What have other people's experiences been with a black background with a WA 22?


 

 I'm using a combo at the moment which probably isn't my favorite sound signature. It is a little lacking in the mid-range. However it is 100% black background. So I'm enjoying it.
  
 I'm not using the WA22 much anymore*. Just weekend listening. Even then the weekends have got busy so not often. When I do get to listen to tubes I want black background. I don't care if it is a little lacking in the mids. Just as long as the sound is clean.
  
 *V281 has become my main amp.


----------



## SP Wild

leftside said:


> I was playing around with various tube combos this weekend. With a few tube combos I was getting an almost complete black background (even with volume at max). What have other people's experiences been with a black background with a WA 22?




Please, share your findings.


----------



## cheeseeater

sp wild said:


> Schiit man. Matched pair of TS 5998 will set me back like nearly 500 bucks delivered.
> 
> I could probably get a used technics 1200 turntable for that price.
> 
> I think prices for a top schiit big middle tube is also frightening.



When I realized the difference ts 5998 make I bought enough pairs to last me the rest of my life. I won't use any other power tube in wa22.


----------



## leftside

sp wild said:


> Please, share your findings.


 

 It's not really the brand of tubes that makes the most difference (noise wise), but more the condition of the tube. For example, I have a lovely sounding black base B65, but it was also producing a very low oscillating hum (so low that you wouldn't hear it with low volume music). I replaced it with another B65 and the hum totally went away. I've never had a noise problem with ECC31, ECC33, ECC34 and ECC35 tubes, but I've had a few noise problems with ECC32 tubes. I don't recommend buying those off eBay - or if so - make sure it is from a reputable seller. Some of these tubes are from the 1940's, so it's amazing how many actually work as well as they do.
  
 The rectifiers seem to be the most temperamental. I mostly run a Cossor 53KU fat bottle, but sometimes swap that out for a GZ34 metal base, a Marconi 5U4G, EML Mesh or WE 274A. I had a GZ34 metal base that tested "NOS", but it was noisy. The other 3 I have are perfect.
  
 I have a LOT of 6BL7's and have only had noise from one of those. That one is now in the garbage.
  
 The only tubes I've consistently had noise problems with are the ones that require an adapter on top of the tube with wires.


----------



## leftside

cheeseeater said:


> When I realized the difference ts 5998 make I bought enough pairs to last me the rest of my life. I won't use any other power tube in wa22.


 

 Give the 6BL7's a try  A quad + adapter shouldn't cost you more than $100.


----------



## Arcamera

Hey All, Just wanted to share my latest passion: Kennerton headphones. Specifically, the Odin and the Vali. Best headphones I've ever had. I love the Odin so much in fact I've recently traded my Focal Utopia for a second pair (in a different wood and cable, seen below). Brilliant stuff from St. Petersburg, Russia. They sound great with my WA22. (I still haven't done a lot of experimenting with tube rolling though-- just got the Sophia and other upgrade recs from Woo. I know there are other options out there-- just haven't given that much time yet). Anyway, happy WA22 listening All. (And check out the Kennertons if you get the opportunity!)


----------



## leftside

Very nice! Would love to give those Kennerton headphones a try sometime! No rush with the tube rolling  Enjoy what you have for a while.


----------



## Arcamera

Yeah, just enjoying it where it's at for the moment. Cheers.


----------



## DancingBlue

I've never heard of Kennerton! One more thing to go research. Sigh.


----------



## abvolt

cheeseeater said:


> When I realized the difference ts 5998 make I bought enough pairs to last me the rest of my life. I won't use any other power tube in wa22.


 
 I'd agree with that it's my favorite power tube also, although quad 6bl7's are very close..


----------



## qrtas

In case someone is interested, there a woo wa22 on Audiogon for $1395 US dollars. 

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/tube-woo-audio-wa22-vacuum-tube-balanced-amplifier-amp-in-factory-box-2017-03-12-amplifiers-30329-atlanta-ga


----------



## abvolt

I saw that, too much $$ for a used amp..


----------



## qrtas

abvolt said:


> I saw that, too much $$ for a used amp..




The price is not bad a all. I contacted the seller and it is a like new amp.


----------



## m8o

I just won the 'moving sale' auction for Stereo Exchange's demo. Very excited to pick it up tomorrow. (Tho no box, power chord, whatever it came with  )

I imagine it has many many hours on it tho, and will need a full compliment of new tubes. I assume you all agree?

My premium amp had been the McIntosh MHA-100 before this.


----------



## leftside

I'd be very interested to hear how it compares to the more expensive MHA-100.
  
 My recommended tubes would be 4 * 6BL7's (and adapters) + ECC31 (and adapter) or ECC33 or ECC35 + rectifier of your choice.


----------



## m8o

Thanks for the recommendation.

Any time I traveled with my former 'low/mid fi' tube amps, I had the boxes with pre-formed holes in the foam for the tubes. I won't yave that here. Other than wrappi g and taping in thin foam sheets (not sure if I have any here), any recommendations for protecting the tubes? I have a lot of vrry cushy wool 'Darn Tough' socks, so was thinking of using one per tube. [?]


----------



## m8o

Noob Question I imagine I'd eventually answer with time and reading. Hope you'll save me that.

What is the riser card at the outside of the amp in front of the output transformers on which two tubes are mounted in the OP's photos? The amp I purchased does not have that. 



EDIT: please disregard. It didn't take much effort after all, lol. From a few posts from the top, " You can use singles as a direct drop in or buy adapters to run two per socket." And I now understand the meaning of "4 * 6BL7's (and adapters)".

I assume these adapters have the two tubes operating in parallel to double the current provided to the transformers?


----------



## leftside

Can't help you with the travel recommendation. I take an iPhone, Hugo DAC and Shure 846 headphones when traveling. Seems like too much hassle to carry the WA22 + tubes around.


----------



## m8o

Lol. No, no. The question is a continuation of what I said earlier, about bringing it home from the Stereo Exchange store. Conditions of the final auction are we buyers are responsible for packing it up and getting it out the door and home. It doesn't have the original packaging.


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> I'd be very interested to hear how it compares to the more expensive MHA-100.
> 
> My recommended tubes would be 4 * 6BL7's (and adapters) + ECC31 (and adapter) or ECC33 or ECC35 + rectifier of your choice.


 
 excellent choice in tubes I'd agree also,can't go wrong with that combo..enjoy


----------



## leftside

m8o said:


> Lol. No, no. The question is a continuation of what I said earlier, about bringing it home from the Stereo Exchange store. Conditions of the final auction are we buyers are responsible for packing it up and getting it out the door and home. It doesn't have the original packaging.


 
 Haha I see what you mean now. Can someone come with you and hold the amp whilst you drive?


----------



## m8o

I'll be taking a large plastic storage container. Moreso just looking for suggestions of what to put the tubes into from anyone with experience doing that. I'll figure something out. Maybe will use Illy coffee containers plus some foam sheets if i hid some away somewhere. And holding it all myself in a taxi


----------



## Jhors2

leftside said:


> I'd be very interested to hear how it compares to the more expensive MHA-100.
> 
> My recommended tubes would be 4 * 6BL7's (and adapters) + ECC31 (and adapter) or ECC33 or ECC35 + rectifier of your choice.




Any reason you'd prefer one ECC driver over another? I am using the LCD-X and currently with RCA 6C8Gs the sound is a bit harsh in the mids.


----------



## leftside

The ECC33 and ECC35 have more gain/power. The ECC31 is a cheaper way to obtain all the goodness of an ECC32.


----------



## leftside

My latest accessory for when listening to the tube gear


----------



## SP Wild

Haha, I was shopping for a desklamp and saw some if those fancy light globes amd it made me think if tube amps.

Interestingly the vacuum tube was an accident with a light globe experiment to clean carbon deposit in the globe.


----------



## abvolt

m8o said:


> Noob Question I imagine I'd eventually answer with time and reading. Hope you'll save me that.
> 
> What is the riser card at the outside of the amp in front of the output transformers on which two tubes are mounted in the OP's photos? The amp I purchased does not have that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congrats on your new Woo amp you'll really love it's awesome sq, quad 6bl7's are some of the finest I've heard nearly on par with the mighty 5998's @ a far less price range. They are well worth a try you'll need adapters for that combo.Also try to get your hands on a pair of mullards eccxx for drivers simply the very best in sq..31,32,33,35's my ecc31's + 35's never get removed their that good..enjoy


----------



## m8o

Thanx abvolt and all earlier.

Question, anyone else find the output to be reversed? 

Last night I finally got around to firing it up. I noticed something was off right away on the 1st track i listened to. Soon realized on the 2nd track what should be in my right ear on one of my test tracks I know especially well was coming from my left ear. 

The 1/4 inch output is the same as 4pin xlr. That they're consistent is good as this can simply be addressed by swapping right/left at the amp input and it addresses it for both 1/4 inch and 4pin XLR out. Anyone else have this?


----------



## Arcamera

Hi All, any recommendation appreciated here: On my WA22 I've been rolling between the Philips 6080 and the Tung Sol 7236. The first is nice and mellow, and the second is more dynamic, but at times a little 'edgy.' Any alternative tube recs? Ideally that aren't too expensive, and can be got a hold of without too much difficulty. I guess I'm looking for the dynamism of the 7236, but with a little more smoothness. Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Badas

arcamera said:


> Hi All, any recommendation appreciated here: On my WA22 I've been rolling between the Philips 6080 and the Tung Sol 7236. The first is nice and mellow, and the second is more dynamic, but at times a little 'edgy.' Any alternative tube recs? Ideally that aren't too expensive, and can be got a hold of without too much difficulty. I guess I'm looking for the dynamism of the 7236, but with a little more smoothness. Thanks for your thoughts.


 

 I really didn't like the 7236. For all the rave reviews I thought they were Woo over rated.
  
 6BL7 tubes should be your ticket. Dynamic, punchy, warm and very little treble harshness.


----------



## Arcamera

Thanks for the tip Badas


----------



## m8o

What is everyone using as a tube tester? 

Edit: I didn't think this forum supported quoted multi-string searches. But I found a search for "tube tester" was accurate. So I found good discussions.


----------



## MIKELAP

I think it would be interesting to see what tubes with adapters have you guys been using in your WA22 .as  power tubes,  rectifier  or drivers ?


----------



## BillinSF

As a noob I made my first misstep.  I've heard so many good things about the Mullard ECC35 (thanks (AbVolt) that I bought a pair.  Shame on me, I got them off eBay.  One of the tubes (left channel) has a low level hum.  It is inaudible at any volume that I listen at and it does not get louder as volume is raised.
  
 Otherwise, the SQ is just friggin awesome!!  Better than the Woo upgrade Sylvania 6SN7GT and the sweet lush RCA gray glass VT-231 I rolled into a couple of weeks ago. 
  
 I love vintage things and can deal with the imperfection.  But, it's like that little speck of wine on your rug that you hide under the ottoman.  It's annoying simply because you know it's there - even if you can't see it.
  
 My question is does this little hum reveal something that is damaging the amp?


----------



## jhljhl

billinsf said:


> As a noob I made my first misstep.  I've heard so many good things about the Mullard ECC35 (thanks (AbVolt) that I bought a pair.  Shame on me, I got them off eBay.  One of the tubes (left channel) has a low level hum.  It is inaudible at any volume that I listen at and it does not get louder as volume is raised.
> 
> Otherwise, the SQ is just friggin awesome!!  Better than the Woo upgrade Sylvania 6SN7GT and the sweet lush RCA gray glass VT-231 I rolled into a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe try silicone tube dampers or herbie's tube dampers.


----------



## leftside

Sorry to hear about that hum. The WA22 is a fantastic amp, but it is sensitive to poor tubes. It took me quite a few months to find a complete set of tubes that worked perfectly in this amp. Now I have quite a few good sets, and the amp produces great sound with a completely black background. My recommendation is to buy another ECC35 tube. Try and find one that has the same construction as your "good" one.
  
 I don't think it's damaging the amp - just yours and mine OCD.


----------



## BillinSF

leftside said:


> Sorry to hear about that hum. The WA22 is a fantastic amp, but it is sensitive to poor tubes. It took me quite a few months to find a complete set of tubes that worked perfectly in this amp. Now I have quite a few good sets, and the amp produces great sound with a completely black background. My recommendation is to buy another ECC35 tube. Try and find one that has the same construction as your "good" one.
> 
> I don't think it's damaging the amp - just yours and mine OCD.


 

 Leftside, I appreciate that advice and your knowledge and will replace the bad one.  More than anything else I'm mad at myself for buying on eBay when there are established enterprises selling the same thing.  Yeah, a bit of OCD since the tubes do sound great.


----------



## leftside

I'm also now in the possession of a Glenn 300B headphone amp. I'm still keeping the WA22 though. The WA22 has been moved to another room  I also like my Allnic HPA-3000, but I can't justify having three headphone amps, so that one will be up for sale soon.

Yes, I prefer the Glenn, but the difference isn't night and day. It's actually confirmed for me that with the right tube combo, the WA22 is a wonderful amp and very good value - especially if you can find a used one.  

This is it for me - there won't be another headphone amp upgrade.


----------



## abvolt

I agree the wa22 with a great tube combo is simply amazing sounding..


----------



## leftside

Found a new home for the WA22. Seems pretty happy there


----------



## abvolt

I guess your wa22 would be very happy I would be too, great gear man..enjoy


----------



## Eduardo C

Hi guys: I am almost ready to click buy for a WA22.

Mi headphones are:
Focal Elear
Ether Flow
LCD-4

I know the Elears and the Ether Flow will work fine, not so sure about the Audezes.

Any experience driving the LCD4s with the WA22?

Thanks for your comments.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

leftside said:


> Found a new home for the WA22. Seems pretty happy there



Beautiful....


----------



## leftside

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I am almost ready to click buy for a WA22.
> 
> Mi headphones are:
> Focal Elear
> ...


Work great with the LCD-3's, but I prefer good power tubes (5998's, 6BL7's) and higher gain driver tubes such as ECC33.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/ecc31-ecc32-ecc33-ecc34-ecc35-tube-addicts.808322/


----------



## abvolt

What does your corsair 540 air run I've got 2 of them awesome just noticed..enjoy


----------



## Contrails (May 22, 2017)

Jupiter caps with Caddock resistors.  Yep managed to fit them in there thanks to a local amp builder (New Zealand).  Initial impressions - feels like a digital haze has been lifted off.  The Jupiter caps are very smooth but not to the point where the Highs are rolled off.  The bass is still tight  and speed is not slow either.


----------



## leftside

Glad you like the Jupiter copper caps. I'm getting the same in my upgraded DAC. Haven't received it yet though.


----------



## Contrails

@leftside btw what DAC are you getting? Lampizator?


----------



## leftside

Yes - the "Golden" version of the Atlantic.


----------



## JoeDoe (Jun 23, 2017)

Hey WA22 owners, my name is Joe and in a few days, I'll get to join the club!

I've wanted to pick up one of these guys for a while and recently was able to do so! Mine will come with the stock Syl 6SN7s, JAN 6080s, and a RCA 5U4G. Been doing a bit of research and went ahead and grabbed a set of TS 7236s, TS 6SN7GTBs, and a TS 5V4G. I won't be able to afford tubes in the $$$ range in the foreseeable future so I need keep things cheap.

Anyway, glad to finally be able to chime in - would love to post my impressions once this bad boy arrives!

PS - I know this is a trivial/controversial topic, but does changing the fuse offer any sonic improvement?


----------



## abvolt (Jun 23, 2017)

JoeDoe said:


> Hey WA22 owners, my name is Joe and in a few days, I'll get to join the club!
> 
> I've wanted to pick up one of these guys for a while and recently was able to do so! Mine will come with the stock Syl 6SN7s, JAN 6080s, and a RCA 5U4G. Been doing a bit of research and went ahead and grabbed a set of TS 7236s, TS 6SN7GTBs, and a TS 5V4G. I won't be able to afford tubes in the $$$ range in the foreseeable future so I need keep things cheap.
> 
> ...



That sounds great joe, I'd agree the 5v4g's are a really good sounding rectifier, as for the 6sn7's never cared for their sound just me. also take a look at some 6BL7's very nice and very affordable I haven't heard good things about the TS 7236's don't own any, You'll have a lot of fun tube rolling, a lot of the members here have a ton of experience just ask if you need some info..enjoy

Oh forgot to add any of you guys try Woo's tube compatibility chart web link can't get it to work, has Woo taken it down or something..Thanks


----------



## jerico

Any thoughts on Ether C vs Ether Flow C with the 22? Thinking of adding closed back cans for the sake of marital harmony.

Justin


----------



## paulomario77

Hi folks,

The WA22 is my first tube amplifier, arrived on Wednesday. I ordered with the stock tubes, came with a Shuguang 274B, Philips Jan 6080 and GE 6SN7, smooth volume knob and balanced/unbalanced input selector switch. I`m using the Oppo HA-1 as a DAC, which was my first and previous desktop amplifier. I`m enjoying it very much. My only full-size cans are the HE560 and the ED8, both with balanced cabling. Didn`t like the ED8 driven from the WA22, though. But the HE560 is playing wonderfully, highs are not aggressive in some tracks as was the case with the Oppo. Detail and soundstage are a big improvement over the HA-1.

I`ve started reading about tube rolling, my main concern is with the durability of the tubes that came with the amp. I will listen on the WA22 for maybe less than 20 hours per week. After how long am I expected to exchange tubes? What would be your advice on keeping a stock for the years to come? What sellers/stores do you recommend? I live in Brazil, so I guess importing will be the only option.

Best regards,
Paulo Mario


----------



## Badas

At 20 hours per week that is 1040 hours per year. 

With fresh NOS tubes you should get 4-5 years (5000 hours). 

You will slow down. I was doing 20 hours per week at first. Now I'm doing about 2 hours per week.


----------



## JoeDoe

New toy!


----------



## geraldshanghai (Jul 1, 2017)

the usaf 596 tube is a fantastic rectifier for WA22!  get one for yourself!


----------



## paulomario77

Hi all,

Here's what I've ordered for my WA22:

Cossor 53KU Fat Bottle
2x Mullard ECC33
2x Chatham 5998 (JAN-CAHG-5998)
4x RCA 6BL7GTA

The reason I bought quad 6BL7 was to use 2 per channel, but unfortunately the ebay seller for the needed adapters doesn't ship to Brazil. Any chance I can get them elsewhere?

I'm really excited with the upgrade!


----------



## abvolt

No doubt that's going to sound fine..enjoy


----------



## leftside (Jul 4, 2017)

About as good as it gets. Enjoy.

PS - I had a great time in Rio (and a 5 day trip in the Amazon) a few years ago.


----------



## geraldshanghai

I have been driving abyss 1266 phi recently with WA22.  It works, although the volume must be increased, usually I need to adjust the volume knob to 2 o'clock position in order to get decent sounds on Abyss.


----------



## paulomario77

Hi all,

Has anyone tried the Sylvania 6SN7W black base, short glass on the WA22? I got a used pair, supposedly from the 1940`s, they`re on their way.

Another question: as a rule of thumb, the more recently manufactured the tube, the worst it sounds, correct? Does this rule apply to the 5998`s? I`ve got a spair pair of Western Electric 421A`s, but the date code tells me they`re from 1970, and I`m afraid I`ve made a bad deal. Bought them as spares, anyway.


----------



## leftside

1) If those Sylvania 6SN7W are in decent condition (i.e. NOS or gently used) then they should be fine.

2) Normally, this is the case, but I have WE 421A's from 1985 (from Brent Jesse) and they sound great.


----------



## abvolt

geraldshanghai said:


> the usaf 596 tube is a fantastic rectifier for WA22!  get one for yourself!



 I agree it's well worth a try one of my favorite rectifiers, Black sure looks nice on the Woo..enjoy


----------



## abvolt

Just wondering if any have tried the 6CG7 driver tubes, if so are they worth giving a listen thanks..enjoy all


----------



## m8o

geraldshanghai said:


> the usaf 596 tube is a fantastic rectifier for WA22!  get one for yourself!



 I bought the one Jack Woo brought to the LI Head-Fi meet a few months back.  But my WA22 has been at a different adress from where I've been living since then, and I have not listened with it!  Seeing this, I'm eager to get it setup over this weekend, as we'll be reunited.  Haha.

Yes, this is ironic as I bought it yet am asking this ...  So what would you say it does?  More and faster attack?  More 3D/holography? More bigger heft to the sound?


----------



## paulomario77

Hello guys,

Can the ECC31 be used on the WA22 without an adapter? Woo Audio`s tube compatibility chart doesn't mention the need for an adapter, and Michael from Woo didn't say anything about it when he replied to my email, but the pinout from the ECC31 and the 6SN7 are different.


----------



## leftside

I use an adapter with the ECC31. Never tried it without an adapter.


----------



## abvolt

I've also always used an adapter with my 31's and thought it was necessary..


----------



## paulomario77

My tube collection for the WA22, which started two months ago, and the amplifier with my top tubes: U52, ECC31's and 5998's:


----------



## abvolt

looks really good..enjoy


----------



## Badas

Yeah. Impressive.


----------



## ahmadfaizadnan

paulomario77 said:


> My tube collection for the WA22, which started two months ago, and the amplifier with my top tubes: U52, ECC31's and 5998's:



Nice pic!


----------



## abvolt (Sep 5, 2017)

I have a question please Woo's tube compatibility chart says one needs and adapter for a 6CS7 driver tube, which I'm assuming would be like a 6CS7 to 6SN7, I can't find any such adapter, has anyone here used that tube in their amp..Thanks

Never mind guys I found an adapter I'll post some pics when I get them along with my mullards for them..


----------



## EndGameSearch

I'm in the need of a push.  I have, and love the WA8 which I bought as a transportable solution but it's been playing the part of a desktop amp the last two months connected to a Hugo 2.  I've started to pull the trigger on the WA22 which I know provides a world of possibilities with various tubes above and beyond what the WA8 will ever do, but still hesitate since I have NO complaints about the sound I'm currently getting out of my rig.  I just know it can get better or there would be no point of any amp beyond what I already have.  I've been PM'ing with another WA22 owner who has been very helpful but I'm looking for additional feedback from anyone that owns both (or has spent considerable time with the 8).  I will likely order the WA22 this week and start with the stock tubes but I'm really looking for a new experience, not just a marginal improvement over the WA8.  Thanks in advance. 

For reference, I primarily listen to acoustic music, lots of classical and have HD800S, LCDi4's and various IEM's.  I'm looking at the LCD3 or 4 and Utopia.  I think I'm pretty much at end game with my current transportable set up so I'm trying to mix it up and head in a different direction with a little variety in the sound I normally aim for.


----------



## davehg

End game, I currently own the LCD3, the WA22, and WA5, and before that, I had the WA6SE. I don't have seat time with the 8. Based on your head gear, I would seek out a WA5 and skip the 22. Your cans will benefit from the 5 far more than the 22, and without the hassle of trying to Tube Roll. You can grab a used 5 for near $3k. It is magic with the LCD3 and really with every other can.


----------



## EndGameSearch

davehg said:


> End game, I currently own the LCD3, the WA22, and WA5, and before that, I had the WA6SE. I don't have seat time with the 8. Based on your head gear, I would seek out a WA5 and skip the 22. Your cans will benefit from the 5 far more than the 22, and without the hassle of trying to Tube Roll. You can grab a used 5 for near $3k. It is magic with the LCD3 and really with every other can.


Thanks for the input but you're taking my spend in the wrong direction...   Another thread participant reached out via PM and gave me the push I needed.  I should have the WA22 later this week.  If this works out I can always get the WA5 down the road.


----------



## abvolt

I think you made a good decision the wa22 has a wonderful sound to it, you can always get better but at a much higher cost 300b tubes are not cheap, I wanted the wa5 before I started pricing tubes for it..enjoy your new amp


----------



## leftside

Go with some decent power tubes (4 * 6BL7/6BX7 or 5998's) and higher gain driver tubes (ECC33/35) and you'll be good to go with the LCD3's and the WA22.


----------



## m8o

P.s. EndGameSearch'er ... i know this is not in the cards, but to keep you thinking ... I listened to the WA-33 at the NYC Head-if meet, and it was pure magic; the dynamics were out if this world.  Talk about a major leap...  and 'end game'.


----------



## EndGameSearch

m8o said:


> P.s. EndGameSearch'er ... i know this is not in the cards, but to keep you thinking ... I listened to the WA-33 at the NYC Head-if meet, and it was pure magic; the dynamics were out if this world.  Talk about a major leap...  and 'end game'.


Stop it already!  You guys are making me feel like I need to upgrade an amp I haven't even received yet!    For the record, the nature of this hobby combined with my personality is not a good thing.  The "EndGameSearch" name was chosen in jest.  There is no "end game".  Only periods of contentment (which should last longer than they do) followed by countless hours of research and "logic" based justification.


----------



## m8o

Call us "The Pusher men". Haha (great song btw to all readers.  Search it out, by Stepenwolf, if anyone does not know it)


----------



## abvolt

I recently got a few inexpensive rectifiers (3) Bendix 6106 which is a variant of another rectifier I have the 5Y3WGT you can see in the pic the Kenrad is the 5Y3 and has a different construction then the 6106, it's their sq differences like night & day, the 6106 is for an inexpensive tube simply excellent sounding, If any of you guys haven't heard one it's well worth your time to get one. 

The other is a 5AS4 not the 5AS4A straight bottle envelope I've had a number of them and didn't care for their sound, it's the older coke bottle style envelope that sounds very nice worth owning that's for sure, I've got a few more that I'll post after some listening time my tube rolling has become a habit..enjoy


----------



## EndGameSearch

It looks like I win the jack ass award for the day.  I'll pass it off as a rookie mistake but feel I should have caught this.  I just received my WA22 and Nordost XLR cable from Woo.  We had a miscommunication and they thought I had a balanced source.  I ASSuMEd I could connect my Chord Hugo 2 to the Woo with a RCA male to XLR male cable to run my HD800S with their balanced cable.  Now I come to find out that I am limited to the RCA to RCA single ended connection with the Hugo.

Shame on me.............

One of the main drivers behind this purchase was the fact that it is balanced, the HD800S came with a nice balanced and SE cable which I could finally take out of the wrapper and I was going to look at other harder to drive headphones in the future that would benefit from the balanced output.  How much am I missing out if I only run it in SE mode?  I surely do not want to drop another 1 - 2K on a new DAC since I love the Hugo, but this all a bit disappointing.  I feel like I"ll be driving a high performance sports car but not able to take it out of 2nd gear.  I'm not looking for balanced for the sake of balanced, but Woo designed this amp around it's balanced output so it seems to be a waste.  

Thoughts? Advice?  Reassurance?  Smart ass remarks?  Right now I'm leaning towards the dreaded return and re-stocking fee, and going a different route.  I really wanted to take this step beyond my WA8 but there are also some nice SE solid state amps I find attractive which may be better suited to drive the LCD-4's I will likely buy in the near future.


----------



## EndGameSearch

Disregard the previous post.  The WA22 will be heading back to Woo....


----------



## davehg

I'd stay the course.  The WA22 with a single ended source still sounds great. I've found that the balanced improvements really depend on the source. With my Sony HAPz1ES, I heard real improvements over the SE outputs because the power supply and filtering on the Sony was optimized for balanced output. With my phono stages and my older TriVista 21 Dac, the WA22 still sounds great. 

To be clear, if I was building a system around the LCD4, I would choose the WA5 all day every day over the WA22. I don't have super exotic tubes and the WA5 is noticeably better over the WA22.  It uses SE inputs, though you can get XLR inputs they are not truly balanced.


----------



## m8o (Sep 14, 2017)

I understand your position of not wanting to buy a fixed desk DAC Michael given what you already have.  But if it's not too late already I will still suggest it; I will suggest a used NAD M51.  Easily had used for around $1K, and pretty common these days either here, eBay, or Audiogon  (if not seen for sale every day).  It was on Stereophile's recommended A+ list for several years; not sure, it may still be there.  It's precise neutral ultra revealing output is an excellent compliment for the lusciousness of the WA-22.  And if you're building a rig that's not moving, having an A+ rated DAC coupled to it full time makes some sense.

Option #2.  Get a used Mjolnir series 1 (or series 2, for a bit more $).  And use its single-end in, balanced out preamp option to most neutrally balance an unbalanced source.  It uses a special circuit that balances an unbalanced signal without phase splitting.  Actually, maybe get the series 2.  You mentioned wanting a quality solid state amp.  The Mjolnir is that (well, a hybrid actually, but there is a solid state 'tube' too for pure ss), with the added trick it does a fantastic job in the preamp section balancing an unbalanced signal.  This would be cheaper than another DAC too.

Good luck!


----------



## EndGameSearch

Thanks guys.  Good thoughts and suggestions.  I need to dig into the details and weigh my options.  It surely is a beautiful piece of equipment and a real shame to give back.


----------



## davehg (Sep 28, 2017)

So I fire up the WA22 for the first time in several months. I'll admit having the WA5 paired with the LCD3f in the next room makes the decision to listen to the WA22 a deliberate one.

I've kept the WA22 hoping my wife will listen more when she's working at her desk. Today she texted me to ask how to play the system (I use a Squeezebox connected to Tidal, so you have to manage two apps to use it). She ends up frustrated with the navigation so she switches to the Sony HAPZ1ES, a great high end music player with about the easiest app nav made, and front panel in case the app is challenging. Like a giant IPod in a box that plays DSD files too.

Anyway, it's hooked up to a six year old pair of HD650s and some Cardas Clear balanced headphone cables that cost as much used as did the phones. Amos Lee is playing, followed by Reverend Al Green, and some cuts from Passenger's Whisper album.

It's just sounding so nice. Warm mids, full bottom end, and natural highs. It's wonderful to rediscover the WA22's charms.


----------



## abvolt

I'd agree the wa22 is a wonderful sounding amp plus one gets the huge tube rolling possibilities..enjoy


----------



## abvolt

Here's another amazing combo but with a inexpensive rectifier that is imo hard to beat even with spendy rare tubes. I don't think the Brimar 5Z4GY ever sounded better then with a pair of TS 5998's and a pair of ECC35's..enjoy


----------



## PeterZhu

I wonder how about wa22 drives the AKG K1000.


----------



## Usejimmy

I did what you guys told me to get and now i have WE 421A & WE422A + some Sylvania 6SN7GTB Chrome Top to start with


----------



## BillinSF

Jimmy you are cooking now!!

Have fun and nice holidays.


----------



## Usejimmy

BillinSF said:


> Jimmy you are cooking now!!
> 
> Have fun and nice holidays.


HAHA! the same to you ^^
In fact WA22 got cooler then ever since i changed the stock 6080


----------



## Usejimmy (Nov 24, 2017)

Which tubes does give the most sound impact of them all? Im looking for more Bass,warmth and soundstage.
I heard that the VT-231 is a good match with WE 421A/422A but there is so many VT-231 versions! https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_od...TR0.TRC0.H0.XVT-231.TRS0&_nkw=VT-231&_sacat=0
I ordered some NOS RCA tubes just for the fun of tube rolling https://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-PAIR-1960S-RCA-6SN7-6SN7GTB-BLACK-PLATE-VACUUM-TUBES/132174086153?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## paulomario77

Congrats, Jimmy! A nice combination of tubes for sure. The 5998 was my power tube of choice, and I understand the WE 421A is actually the same tube. I also bought a pair of 421As but returned them because they were terribly microphonic. I guess the pair I had was late production.

Nowadays I`m using a single 6BL7GTA instead of the 5998. The problem with the 5998 is that the gain of the amplifier is too high for one of the headphones that I hear the most: the Fostex TH-X00. The 6BL7GTA lowers the amp gain and has a rich, beautiful sound. I have both late production RCA and antique GE 6BL7s. My rectifier is the U52, and ECC31s as the drivers.


----------



## leftside

Great combo!


----------



## leftside

Usejimmy said:


> Which tubes does give the most sound impact of them all? Im looking for more Bass,warmth and soundstage.


Try any of the ECC31 - ECC35's. With your existing setup, you'll have probably one of the best pimped out WA22's.


----------



## Badas (Dec 2, 2017)

!@##@!

Gee I have a love hate relationship with this amp. Right now hate mad.

For months it has sounded great. Last few sessions it has been perfect and gave me warm
fuzzies. It made me feel that all my efforts and $$'s into trialling so many tubes were worth it.
Just the right amount of warmth, detail, holographics and goeyness.

I turn it on this morning and what do I get????
Buzz bloody buzz. The friggin tubes haven't been touched in 6 months and should be settled.
Buzz, nice sounding music, buzz, music, buzz, buzz and buzz. Makes me want to throw it against a wall.

This amp has been so friggin temperamental. Always been a bit of a dog with fleas.
Pissed of I paid so much for it.

Decided to switch to the V281 and the sound is soooooo freakin close to tubes without the tube hassel.


----------



## attmci (Dec 3, 2017)

Badas said:


> !@##@!
> 
> Gee I have a love hate relationship with this amp. Right now hate mad.
> 
> ...



I knew you don't like your WA22 from the very beginning because of the "buzz". I trust you. I also understand that you had invested so much $$$ on the tubes for it. 

But you must have heard other WA22s which are dead silent. Is it possible to bring the amp to a friend's house, and give it a try (make sure it's not caused by a bad circuit in your house wiring)?

I am not so sure of the cause of that, however, it could be transformer noise.

BTW, 



 
*shapeshifter44*
 has the same issue.


----------



## Badas

attmci said:


> I knew you don't like your WA22 from the very beginning because of the "buzz". I trust you. I also understand that you had invested so much $$$ on the tubes for it.
> 
> But you must have heard other WA22s which are dead silent. Is it possible to bring the amp to a friend's house, and give it a try (make sure it's not caused by a bad circuit in your house wiring)?
> 
> ...



I hear ya. I got a dud. 

What really annoys me tho is it should have been tested before shipping half way around the world. 
We can't ship back for repair. The freight costs kills it. 

When I put the order in on the agent (which charges 50% more than the US price) I contacted Woo
and told them I had a order in and could it be carefully tested before shipping. 

Every other overseas companies has replied "absolutely". No response ever came from Woo
or the distributor. 

Right from the first month I alerted to issues. Everything was pointed at tubes. I own stacks of tubes and
90% have noise. I have to settle for the very few that don't. 

One day I will take it to a local guy and get them to rip it apart and take a look. Or I might just leave it as 
a display and use the V281.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

PeterZhu said:


> I wonder how about wa22 drives the AKG K1000.



This is of central importance to me, as K1000 is the gem of my collection. I like MJ2, and use it for HD600 and 800, but I am searching for a more euphonic sound. Is WA22 what I'm looking for? Is WA5/LE? My Panache makes the power question moot, as it has something like ten times the power of WA5.


----------



## Usejimmy

paulomario77 said:


> Congrats, Jimmy! A nice combination of tubes for sure. The 5998 was my power tube of choice, and I understand the WE 421A is actually the same tube. I also bought a pair of 421As but returned them because they were terribly microphonic. I guess the pair I had was late production.
> 
> Nowadays I`m using a single 6BL7GTA instead of the 5998. The problem with the 5998 is that the gain of the amplifier is too high for one of the headphones that I hear the most: the Fostex TH-X00. The 6BL7GTA lowers the amp gain and has a rich, beautiful sound. I have both late production RCA and antique GE 6BL7s. My rectifier is the U52,



My WE 421A are also Microphonic but i think i can live with it, i got a good deal.


----------



## Usejimmy (Dec 6, 2017)

1 new matched pair RCA arrived today and i already listening to them right now and i like them so far. Warmer and more sweet sounding music without any harsh sound just like i want it ^^
I also bought a new Geekria EJB35 Full-Size Hard Shell Large Headphone Carrying Case for HD800S which fits perfectly


----------



## BillinSF

Jimmy Merry early Christmas to you!  I like RCA's too for exactly the reason you mention.


----------



## Usejimmy (Dec 10, 2017)

BillinSF said:


> Jimmy Merry early Christmas to you!  I like RCA's too for exactly the reason you mention.


Merry early Christmas to you too ^^
Does this tubes sound any different to each other? http://www.nostubestore.com/2014/12/rca-6sn7gt-gtb.html 1950-1960?


----------



## BillinSF

I'd favor the last ones on the list.  I don't have any experience with the GTB's but hear that the GT's are a bit better.   These look like good prices.

*- RCA 6SN7GT 1950's, Silver Label, black plates, copper grid posts, bottom D-Getter w/balanced sections @ US$48,00/each; US$98,00/matched pair*


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

Has anyone compared WA22's sound to anything in the Schiit lineup?


----------



## PHC1

Anyone pairing a WA22 with Focal Utopia? Are they a synergistic match?
Thanks.


----------



## Usejimmy (Dec 18, 2017)

leftside said:


> Try any of the ECC31 - ECC35's. With your existing setup, you'll have probably one of the best pimped out WA22's.[/QU


Can ECC 31 be used without adapter?
The ECC looks really nice and i heard some good words about them. But which one should i buy! some are made in 1940, 1950 and so on... and whats the difference in sound between them.
How does this compare to the Mullards ECC -  https://www.ebay.com/itm/WONDERFUL-...454467?hash=item3f8e118cc3:g:oXQAAOSwYeRZ-ewX


----------



## Usejimmy

Whats the hype about this expensive tubes, are they any good?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-SYLVAN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6AS7G-A183...395121?hash=item489d1a59b1:g:OZAAAOSwhvFZGuC-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NOS-T...a3pV2H0U4XGS6YK3Msg9Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TELAM-6N8S...a3pV2H0U4XGS6YK3Msg9Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## mahesvara

PHC1 said:


> Anyone pairing a WA22 with Focal Utopia? Are they a synergistic match?
> Thanks.



The answer to your question is yes. The Utopia sounds amazing with Utopia even with stock tubes. But if you upgrade to tubes that expand the sound stage, then you'll be very happy with the Utopia & WA22. But the question is how much you're willing to pay.


----------



## mahesvara (Dec 18, 2017)

bosiemoncrieff said:


> Has anyone compared WA22's sound to anything in the Schiit lineup?



I once owned the Schiit Valhalla 2 and currently use the Jotunheim at work. The WA22 is better than either of them in terms of sound stage, dynamics, and details (and pretty much everything else, really). The Valhalla sounds dull and weak compared to WA22, and the Jotunheim too metallic and narrow. 

But this comparison isn't fair given the price difference .... I wish I can compare the WA22 with the Ragnarok


----------



## MIKELAP

Usejimmy said:


> Can ECC 31 be used without adapter?
> The ECC looks really nice and i heard some good words about them. But which one should i buy! some are made in 1940, 1950 and so on... and whats the difference in sound between them.
> How does this compare to the Mullards ECC -  https://www.ebay.com/itm/WONDERFUL-...454467?hash=item3f8e118cc3:g:oXQAAOSwYeRZ-ewX


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 You need an adapter. i have 2 pairs of the NR73/1285 version of the ECC31 they are very good but i also have several pairs of the Brimar 6SC7GT that to me sound very good also used with adapters to Here.s the link https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Gold-p...198992?hash=item2ed48850d0:g:LNYAAOSwPcVVvs1s


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

mahesvara said:


> I once owned the Schiit Valhalla 2 and currently use the Jotunheim at work. The WA22 is better than either of them in terms of sound stage, dynamics, and details (and pretty much everything else, really). The Valhalla sounds dull and weak compared to WA22, and the Jotunheim too metallic and narrow.
> 
> But this comparison isn't fair given the price difference .... I wish I can compare the WA22 with the Ragnarok



Or a MJ2.


----------



## Badas (Dec 22, 2017)

Update on my amp.

I had enough of it. Struggled for years with hum.

I took it to a local tube amp repairer and told him to open it up and do whatever he thinks will help.
A few days later he phoned and said my amp was never finished. In his opinion soldering had never been tidied up.
He also found metal in the transformer casings. His words "it's like the amp didn't have its finial inspection"

While he had it apart he asked if I wanted the transformers epoxy dipped. He told me it keeps them even quieter.
So I went ahead and got that done.

The amp was returned and reinstalled yesterday, I've been running it a lot and so far it is dead quiet. I've noticed
the actual noise level is lower. It seems to have a SS noise level now.

I also received the Massdrop HD6XX yesterday. So I ran those HP's with the amp. Nice combo.


----------



## leftside

Glad to hear mate! Loose metal in the transformer casings will definitely cause a hum. The epoxy should help with vibrations. Sounds like you have a great local tech - which is always very useful when you are in this hobby.


----------



## MIKELAP

Badas said:


> Update on my amp.
> 
> I had enough of it. Struggled for years with hum.
> 
> ...


Good to hear it was worth the trouble. Finally !!!


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Glad to hear mate! Loose metal in the transformer casings will definitely cause a hum. The epoxy should help with vibrations. Sounds like you have a great local tech - which is always very useful when you are in this hobby.



Yeah. The guy is about 90 years old and works on tube amps only.
Usually guitar amps.
Workshop is like a museum. I bet he has some great tubes in there.

I just left my amp on for two hours without playing music. When I usually do that I return and it is buzzing. Not from the HP's but a low audiable buzz from the transformers themselves. 
Today it has nothing. Just as quiet as I left it.


----------



## Badas

MIKELAP said:


> Good to hear it was worth the trouble. Finally !!!



I think the repairer was right. 
My amp wasn't inspected before closing up the casings.
I was too scared to open it up. If I had and found the metal it might have fixed it ages ago.


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> Update on my amp.
> 
> I had enough of it. Struggled for years with hum.
> 
> ...



"metal in the transformer casings" This could be the reason. You should open it by yourself. So simple.


----------



## Badas

attmci said:


> "metal in the transformer casings" This could be the reason. You should open it by yourself. So simple.



Yes. Probably should have. Shouldn't need to tho. Woo should have better quality checking.

Glad the whole thing got looked over. I was told solder work was bad and repairer tidied it up. 
It is working like I always imagined a decent tube amp would now. 
I've even noticed when changing volume now there is no clicks through the HP's. 
It use to be nasty.


----------



## joseph69

Badas said:


> I've even noticed when changing volume now there is no clicks through the HP's.
> It use to be nasty.


Stepped attenuator???


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Stepped attenuator???



Yip. I got mine before they offered the other type.


----------



## joseph69

Badas said:


> Yip. I got mine before they offered the other type.


I see. 
I didn't know Woo offered a stepped attenuator then.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> I see.
> I didn't know Woo offered a stepped attenuator then.



There was only stepped attenuators.


----------



## joseph69

Badas said:


> There was only stepped attenuators.


What year did you purchase your 22? 
I had a brand new Burson Soloist with a DACT and had the same issue when increasing/decreasing the volume...couldn't stand it! 
A little over 1yr ago I bought a new a GS-X mk2 with a DACT and never once have I hear a peep out of it, literally


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> What year did you purchase your 22?
> I had a brand new Burson Soloist with a DACT and had the same issue when increasing/decreasing the volume...couldn't stand it!
> A little over 1yr ago I bought a new a GS-X mk2 with a DACT and never once have I hear a peep out of it, literally



Mine is a late 2014.
I don't really care about it on the WA22. I just noticed it has improved.
I adjust the volume using the V281. I use the V281 as a pre-amp.
I noticed it cleaned up the treble on the WA22 if the input voltage was lower.

So I do this:

 Yggy > V281 > Woo WA22 > HP
Or
Yggy > V281 > HP for SS listening.


----------



## joseph69

Now I see why it doesn't bother you being you're using the V281 volume control.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Now I see why it doesn't bother you being you're using the V281 volume control.



Not only is the V281 a superb SS amp it is a very clean operating pre-amp as well. 
A really nice piece of kit.


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> Yes. Probably should have. Shouldn't need to tho. Woo should have better quality checking.
> 
> Glad the whole thing got looked over. I was told solder work was bad and repairer tidied it up.
> It is working like I always imagined a decent tube amp would now.
> ...


Now you can compare it head-to-head to your V-281.


----------



## joseph69

Badas said:


> Not only is the V281 a superb SS amp it is a very clean operating pre-amp as well.
> A really nice piece of kit.


Yes, I remember reading nothing but positive impressions about the V281.


----------



## ajreynol

Hello folks. Considering purchasing a new WA22. I am sticking to a budget of no more than $2400, so I though I'd ask a couple of questions:

1.) How are the default/stock/base tubes that come with the WA22? Should I feel pressed about upgrading them immediately to really appreciate the amp?

2.) How much would the next level of improved tubes run me? Can I stay in my budget and improve the sound?

3.) Using the Woo amp comparison chart (http://wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf) I noticed that the WA22 produces a lower RMS output per channel than the 6SE. I expected this to be the other way around. Should this be a consideration for me and my rather thirsty LCD-4's?


Thank you for any insight.


----------



## Badas

I wouldn't use a WA22 with a LCD-4. You need a 300B amp. 

The WA22 doesn't power my Ether Flows well at all and they require less power.
WA22 falls apart on Ether. Switch Ether to SS V281 and everything comes alive.

Planars require power.

Stock tubes are rubbish. Especially the rectifier and drive tubes. If Woo is still using the GE 6080 power tubes then they are okay.
You can make a really nice sounding combo of tubes for not much money.
Keep the stock power tubes, add the Brimar 5Z4GY then choose some driver tubes. There will be many suggestions for driver tubes.
I personally use Tung-Sol round plates. They can be found at good prices. Avoid any new Chinese made tubes.


----------



## BillinSF

Badas said:


> The WA22 doesn't power my Ether Flows well at all and they require less power.
> WA22 falls apart on Ether. Switch Ether to SS V281 and everything comes alive.



Badas, your note is fascinating.  I use the WA22 through an Oppo HA-1 as the preamp and have Ether Flow C's and Senn. 800S.  Senn's sound great but my Ether's sound like garbage.  Glad to hear that it's not just me.


----------



## Badas

BillinSF said:


> Badas, your note is fascinating.  I use the WA22 through an Oppo HA-1 as the preamp and have Ether Flow C's and Senn. 800S.  Senn's sound great but my Ether's sound like garbage.  Glad to hear that it's not just me.



They get a transistor sound aye?
Sound closes up. Soundstage disappears, instrument separation dies. Lushness gone.
It is because the amp struggles to power.

As a general rule and this is not true of all amps and HP's Planar prefers SS, dynamic drivers love tubes. 
I'm moving from Planar to dynamic drivers.


----------



## BillinSF

My Ether's just sound like mud.   Just no SQ at all.  I was very upset at the hype for these headphones; but you've explained the problem.  They sound much better through the Oppo.  But then there is not the tubey goodness I crave.


----------



## Badas (Dec 27, 2017)

BillinSF said:


> My Ether's just sound like mud.   Just no SQ at all.  I was very upset at the hype for these headphones; but you've explained the problem.  They sound much better through the Oppo.  But then there is not the tubey goodness I crave.



I agree. The Ether is not all that. My favorite is far cheaper HP.
Might be better to quit them rather than look for another amp.

They almost sound end-game on my V281 tho.

I had the Oppo HA-1 for a while. Bypassed the DAC and I found the amp itself very flat. Might explain the tube sound you are missing. There are other SS amps that get very near to the tube sound.


----------



## leftside

ajreynol said:


> Hello folks. Considering purchasing a new WA22. I am sticking to a budget of no more than $2400, so I though I'd ask a couple of questions:
> 
> 1.) How are the default/stock/base tubes that come with the WA22? Should I feel pressed about upgrading them immediately to really appreciate the amp?
> 
> ...


Also consider a used WA22. Would give you plenty of spare cash for tubes with more gain like 5998's (or a cheaper option is 4 * 6BL7's - search on this thread on how to use those with an adapter) and ECC33/ECC35 for your LCD-4's. There are other fine tube variations that people like on here like for a WA22, but the combo I mentioned would give you the highest gain and imo the best sound out of the WA22.


----------



## Badas

joseph69 said:


> Yes, I remember reading nothing but positive impressions about the V281.



Nothing has changed from my initial impressions.

V281 is a tube amp killer. Great warmth like tubes. Better treble detail (treble is my pain), cleaner bass and the real gem is by using 4 amps to power a HP in balanced mode it give you 97% of that tube holographic effect. 
V281 uses a left push, left pull, right push and right pull configuration in balanced mode. Very unique and great sounding.


----------



## leftside

Don't you find the V281 a little ugly though? Or maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## Badas

leftside said:


> Don't you find the V281 a little ugly though? Or maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



Agreed. It is odd. Especially the shape.


----------



## donato

Badas said:


> Agreed. It is odd. Especially the shape.



Shape is odd, like the iFi stuff too (long and thinnish), but I love the aesthetic.  Looks like a high quality lab equipment or something, which is also why maybe some don't like.  Nice sensible german engineering I guess.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

I wonder why the xlr preouts are on the front rather than the back.


----------



## fixated

Badas said:


> Mine is a late 2014.
> I don't really care about it on the WA22. I just noticed it has improved.
> I adjust the volume using the V281. I use the V281 as a pre-amp.
> I noticed it cleaned up the treble on the WA22 if the input voltage was lower.
> ...



That's a very interesting setup, I have the V281 and I'm considering a WA22 purchase towards the latter half of this year. Though I've always been on the fence about having multi gear having the same function, would you say having both amps to be practical or should I just keep my money and stick with the V281? tyia


----------



## dstubked (Jan 3, 2018)

lonerboy13 said:


> That's a very interesting setup, I have the V281 and I'm considering a WA22 purchase towards the latter half of this year. Though I've always been on the fence about having multi gear having the same function, would you say having both amps to be practical or should I just keep my money and stick with the V281? tyia



I ran the exact same setup previously and I agree with Badas, use the v281 as a preamp does cleans up the sound and it sounds more pleasant to my ears (with a HD800S).

I sold the v281 in the end coz I did not want too many gears and I regretted my decision!

I did had the best of both worlds running that setup. Both are great amps and they were in my inventory for about a year before I had that upgrading itch..


----------



## fixated

dstubked said:


> I ran the exact same setup previously and I agree with Badas, use the v281 as a preamp does cleans up the sound and it sounds more pleasant to my ears (with a HD800S).
> 
> I sold the v281 in the end coz I did not want too many gears and I regretted my decision!
> 
> I did had the best of both worlds running that setup. Both are great amps and they were in my inventory for about a year before I had that upgrading itch..



Thanks for the feedback! Will have to give it some thought first as I'm getting a pair of Utopia's in a few weeks and will see how my budget fairs.


----------



## Badas

lonerboy13 said:


> That's a very interesting setup, I have the V281 and I'm considering a WA22 purchase towards the latter half of this year. Though I've always been on the fence about having multi gear having the same function, would you say having both amps to be practical or should I just keep my money and stick with the V281? tyia


I’ve always raved about the V281. So I’m biased. 
I would just stick to the V281 if it was me. WA22 doesn’t add much more.


----------



## fixated

Badas said:


> I’ve always raved about the V281. So I’m biased.
> I would just stick to the V281 if it was me. WA22 doesn’t add much more.



Yeah, I have been seeing you around the V281 thread as well. You and me both love the V281 but I do also like the lushness I get from a good ol' tube amp.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Hello, new owner of WA22, I recieved about a month , but just now having time to seach for. It's my firts tube amp but i'll be the firts to attempt tube rolling. Previously I have the Dark voice 336SE


----------



## abvolt

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hello, new owner of WA22, I recieved about a month , but just now having time to seach for. It's my firts tube amp but i'll be the firts to attempt tube rolling. Previously I have the Dark voice 336SE



Congrats on your new amp I think you'll enjoy tube rolling I sure do..


----------



## Jhors2

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hello, new owner of WA22, I recieved about a month , but just now having time to seach for. It's my firts tube amp but i'll be the firts to attempt tube rolling. Previously I have the Dark voice 336SE


Prepare yourself for a ride, the tube rolling in this thing can get quite intense.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Jhors2 said:


> Prepare yourself for a ride, the tube rolling in this thing can get quite intense.


I have a friend that he has too, he spends ~2.5x the price of the Woo WA22, i'll get some, but not in this level rs


----------



## abvolt

Very true I started with only a few tubes, now I have many times the value in tubes over the cost of the amp maybe (3) times, just ask Badas he buys them by the case. It's just that addictive & fun..enjoy


----------



## denniswaugh

Here's my current WA22 setup.
Osram GZ37 fat bottle, Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6AS7G.


----------



## paulomario77

denniswaugh said:


> Here's my current WA22 setup.
> Osram GZ37 fat bottle, Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6AS7G.



Absolutely beautiful tubes and amp, Dennis! Congrats!


----------



## abvolt

Now that looks sweet..


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

denniswaugh said:


> Here's my current WA22 setup.
> Osram GZ37 fat bottle, Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6AS7G.


Custom one ?


----------



## denniswaugh

Originally all aluminium, I removed the front plate and transformer tops and had them anodized at a local metal workshop.


----------



## denniswaugh

paulomario77 said:


> Absolutely beautiful tubes and amp, Dennis! Congrats!


Thank you.


----------



## attmci (Mar 21, 2018)

https://wooaudio.com/amplifiers/wa22

WA22 (2nd Gen.) Preamp option becomes standard and price adjusted (US$2,499). Not sure how the sonic performance was improved. Is the "ALPS smooth potentiometer" an "upgrade"?

BTW, I am not familiar with the recent WA22 production. I am pretty sure Mike will come to let us know more details.. 

Tung Sol 5998 upgrade available for $440.

Originally introduced in 2009, WA22 has been an audiophile favorite. New for 2018 is *improved sonic performance* and preamplifier feature for use with a Hi-Fi system. WA22 (2nd gen) is an all-tube design, fully balanced headphone amplifier and preamplifier. The advantage of a fully balanced system is improved channel separation, more precise soundstage, and imaging. Perfectly suited for the headphone enthusiast and experienced audiophiles seeking flexibility and purest sound.


Updated to 2nd generation in April 2018
Tubes: 6SN7 driver x 2, 6080 power x 2, 5U4G rectifier x 1
Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) tube sockets
Fully-balanced design, Class-A
Transformer-coupled, Point-to-Point wiring, Pseudo-dual power supply
Phase Splitter for use with unbalanced components
HI / LO impedance setting
XLR input x 1, RCA input x 1
Dual 3-pin XLR (left and right channel), 4-pin XLR and 1/4" (6.3mm) stereo headphone outputs
XLR balanced PREAMP output (<50 ohms)
ALPS smooth potentiometer
Anodized aluminum chassis, available in black or silver
Self-biasing with compatible tubes [chart]
Global voltage (100v–220v) without converter
Dimensions: 7"(H), 12"(W), 10½"(D) amplifier 25 lbs.


----------



## bosiemoncrieff

They already have pre-outs on the front. We're paying $500 for pin reversals and not having to run the XLR cables under the amp and out to the power amp/powered speakers? Here's one potential customer who's 100% going to buy used. Raising prices is rarely a good idea, and only when decisive advances in functionality occur. Here's to Woo dampening sales yet again.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

bosiemoncrieff said:


> They already have pre-outs on the front. We're paying $500 for pin reversals and not having to run the XLR cables under the amp and out to the power amp/powered speakers? Here's one potential customer who's 100% going to buy used. Raising prices is rarely a good idea, and only when decisive advances in functionality occur. Here's to Woo dampening sales yet again.


I think the pre its for other systems that you would like to use a vacuum tube pre amp, but in my opinion does not work. I have both systems and I use a pre for the Woo not the Woo as a pre. BTW I have one with out the pre outputs. Like you said "We're paying $500 for pin reversals and not having to run the XLR cables under the amp and out to the power amp/powered speakers" What WOO AUDIO


----------



## leftside

Adding a preamp is a negative for me. Cramming more parts into the chassis. If you already have a preamp, then the additional cost is a waste of money.


----------



## abvolt

I use the front  pre -outs all the time works great, and I agree 500. is a big price jump..enjoy


----------



## attmci

abvolt said:


> I use the front  pre -outs all the time works great, and I agree 500. is a big price jump..enjoy


Enjoy the big price jump? LOL

What's the volume pot in your WA22?


----------



## abvolt

It's a stepped attenuator seems fine so far, this May will be 3 years since I've owned the WA22 ..


----------



## attmci

abvolt said:


> It's a stepped attenuator seems fine so far, this May will be 3 years since I've owned the WA22 ..


It could be a DACT CT2 balanced stereo pot.

Now the problem is the new WA22 plus top pairs of 6as7, driver tubes, and a rectifier tube will cost well over $3000.


----------



## leftside

Haven't had a few pics for a while. I recently added the ZMF Auteur's and Lampizator Euforia DSD DAC to this setup. The headphone are very nice, and the DAC is exceptional. Absolute bargain at it's used price. Outperforms every DAC I've heard at this price range, outperforms a lot of DACs that are more expensive, and gives a run for the money of much more expensive DACs.


----------



## attmci (Mar 26, 2018)

leftside said:


> Haven't had a few pics for a while. I recently added the ZMF Auteur's and Lampizator Euforia DSD DAC to this setup. The headphone are very nice, and the DAC is exceptional. Absolute bargain at it's used price. Outperforms every DAC I've heard at this price range, outperforms a lot of DACs that are more expensive, and gives a run for the money of much more expensive DACs.


You got a great deal for the DAC. Is that one DSD only?

Glad you still have the WA22 (which is no longer in your signature).


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> You got a great deal for the DAC. Is that one DSD only?
> 
> Glad you still have the WA22 (which is no longer in your signature).


Yes DSD only. That's fine for me as I simply connect the computer to the DAC via USB and use Roon to send out a DSD signal.

Good spot! I didn't realize that. I was modifying my signature the other day (yet more gear...) and must have removed it by mistake. Added back... My wife loves the WA22 and I still listen to it as well.


----------



## Contrails

Funny, I paid $400 extra for the preamp outputs and asked for a smooth turning pot.  So technically I got the 2nd Gen WA22...


----------



## Contrails

Just got a reply from Woo, the new WA22 has upgraded Transformers and circuitry.


----------



## attmci (Apr 27, 2018)

Contrails said:


> Just got a reply from Woo, the new WA22 has upgraded Transformers and circuitry.


That's good to know. Any details on heat current etc?


----------



## innocentblood

hello everyone, I've been using my WA22 for almost 2 years now and I'm ready to upgrade my stock tubes, in pursuit of better sound. I currently have my WA22 hooked up to the Chord BluDAVE combo. some of the cans I'm using with this setup are the Abyss Phi, HE1000v2 and HD800S, amongst others. please recommend me some tubes that will help bring out the best of my current setup. thank you for your input


----------



## BillinSF

innocentblood said:


> hello everyone, I've been using my WA22 for almost 2 years now and I'm ready to upgrade my stock tubes, in pursuit of better sound. I currently have my WA22 hooked up to the Chord BluDAVE combo. some of the cans I'm using with this setup are the Abyss Phi, HE1000v2 and HD800S, amongst others. please recommend me some tubes that will help bring out the best of my current setup. thank you for your input



I have found these two reference threads to be very helpful.  WE 422A rectifier = heaven.  The driver SQ description in the second thread have been pretty spot on as I've built my driver collection.


----------



## abvolt

innocentblood said:


> hello everyone, I've been using my WA22 for almost 2 years now and I'm ready to upgrade my stock tubes, in pursuit of better sound. I currently have my WA22 hooked up to the Chord BluDAVE combo. some of the cans I'm using with this setup are the Abyss Phi, HE1000v2 and HD800S, amongst others. please recommend me some tubes that will help bring out the best of my current setup. thank you for your input



My favorite driver is an ecc35 you'll find that tube makes a very noticeable difference over other drivers, my choice for power tubes are the ts 5998's none better, rectifiers one I find hard to beat is the brimar 1863 (5z4gy) I have many pricier, but that tube does all things right for only about 38.Also any of the mullard gz 30,32,33,34,37 very nice..enjoy


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Hey buddies, i cant find the ecc35. Is it a rare tube ? What is the regular price for it ? Does have a specific brand ou any would be fine ? If you have some clues how to get good tubes in a good place I'll very thankful. OBS: its necessary to be in the internet I live in Brazil. Dont have problem to no ship here 'cause I have a person that receives for me in the us.


----------



## leftside

Yes it's a rare tube. Unlikely to find a dealer with stock. Best bet is eBay. This is not a bad price for them:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...Tubes-D-Getter-NOS-NIB-from-1957/362237909419


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> Yes it's a rare tube. Unlikely to find a dealer with stock. Best bet is eBay. This is not a bad price for them:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pa...Tubes-D-Getter-NOS-NIB-from-1957/362237909419


Bought it, thank you


----------



## abvolt

Also tubeworld.com often has them, you'll really enjoy them their simply excellent sounding..


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

abvolt said:


> Also tubeworld.com often has them, you'll really enjoy them their simply excellent sounding..


I've checked there, they dont have. But I get one GEC U52 from them, I think the result will be aweasome, it's my firts tube rolling

Thanks for helping me everyone in the topic. I've started reading from the begging and i've learned many thing.


----------



## abvolt

Very nice rectifier, your going all out awesome,what power tubes will you be using?..enjoy


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

abvolt said:


> Very nice rectifier, your going all out awesome,what power tubes will you be using?..enjoy


For a while, I'll keep the stock ones, the philips jan 6080wc ecg. I've spend a lot of money now on these three tubes. But ass soon as i can, I want a quad 6bl7 for power


----------



## abvolt

If you're going to stay with the 6080's check out the mullard 6080 (CV2984) I get the from Langrix.co.uk very smooth imo their the finest sounding 6080 not bad priced at about 38. each..have fun dude.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

abvolt said:


> If you're going to stay with the 6080's check out the mullard 6080 (CV2984) I get the from Langrix.co.uk very smooth imo their the finest sounding 6080 not bad priced at about 38. each..have fun dude.


Out of stock, but thank you for the clue


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

I'll keep ans eye there


----------



## wilpower

Got the Gen 2 recently and am running 5998 Tung sol, 422A, Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231, Zu Audio Power/interconnects and audioquest power.

I'm not sure how the Gen 1 is with this setup but I'm replacing Linear Audio V2 w/ ps, and a ifi pro and this is definately much better.

Floor noise is okay as I think the gain on some of the tubes is a bit high.

Using Z1R, Elex, LCD4, LCD2. Sounds great with all, maybe a bit bright with the elex, elear should sound great.


----------



## koiloco

will33184 said:


> Got the Gen 2 recently and am running 5998 Tung sol, 422A, Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231, Zu Audio Power/interconnects and audioquest power.
> 
> I'm not sure how the Gen 1 is with this setup but I'm replacing Linear Audio V2 w/ ps, and a ifi pro and this is definately much better.
> 
> ...


If you have a noise floor, something is going on with your tubes, chain, or your particular setup.  My WA22 is dead quiet with both low and high imp cans.
I use the same power and driver tubes, just a different rectifier.


----------



## wilpower

koiloco said:


> If you have a noise floor, something is going on with your tubes, chain, or your particular setup.  My WA22 is dead quiet with both low and high imp cans.
> I use the same power and driver tubes, just a different rectifier.



It may be one or more of my tubes making the noise, but I dont think so.

Are you using your cans with balanced? I find that If I use the balanced stereo out, I get more noise than the SE.


----------



## koiloco (May 18, 2018)

will33184 said:


> It may be one or more of my tubes making the noise, but I dont think so.
> 
> Are you using your cans with balanced? I find that If I use the balanced stereo out, I get more noise than the SE.


Yes, I run mine balanced (DAC > Pre > WA22 > Cans) since day 1 and never have any noise problems.  Try swapping out your tubes and see.


----------



## abvolt

Tubes can certainly be noisy make sure the pins are clean also you may want to check out "Caig DeoxIT" it improves conductivity on all metal connectors, works for a lot of friends on this board. Just a thought..enjoy


----------



## innocentblood

I finally got around to replacing my stock tubes with the following: Western Electric 422A rectifier, Western Electric 421A power and Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base driver tubes. after being familiar with the stock tubes' sound for nearly 2 years, this new set of tubes was a stunning revelation to me, especially when listening to classical stuff like Ravi Shankar. I'm considering collecting driver tubes that may work well with this combo, for listening to jazz and rock. any input from you guys will be appreciated, thanks


----------



## Contrails

> I finally got around to replacing my stock tubes with the following: Western Electric 422A rectifier, Western Electric 421A power and Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base driver tubes. after being familiar with the stock tubes' sound for nearly 2 years, this new set of tubes was a stunning revelation to me, especially when listening to classical stuff like Ravi Shankar. I'm considering collecting driver tubes that may work well with this combo, for listening to jazz and rock. any input from you guys will be appreciated, thanks



Awesome stuff mate.  Enjoy.  Do post some pics of the setup.


----------



## koiloco

innocentblood said:


> I finally got around to replacing my stock tubes with the following: Western Electric 422A rectifier, Western Electric 421A power and Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base driver tubes. after being familiar with the stock tubes' sound for nearly 2 years, this new set of tubes was a stunning revelation to me, especially when listening to classical stuff like Ravi Shankar. I'm considering collecting driver tubes that may work well with this combo, for listening to jazz and rock. any input from you guys will be appreciated, thanks


For jazz and rock. Just swap in some kenrad vt 231 black glass and rock on.


----------



## BillinSF

innocentblood said:


> I finally got around to replacing my stock tubes with the following: Western Electric 422A rectifier, Western Electric 421A power and Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base driver tubes. after being familiar with the stock tubes' sound for nearly 2 years, this new set of tubes was a stunning revelation to me, especially when listening to classical stuff like Ravi Shankar. I'm considering collecting driver tubes that may work well with this combo, for listening to jazz and rock. any input from you guys will be appreciated, thanks




Check out this thread.  The first post is like an encyclopedia of drivers for the WA22.  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

Hi,

I have just purchased a WA22 Gen 2 model, I have been looking into WA22 threads on Head Fi and found this one. Is this the main thread for the WA22 or are there others? I have found the Woo Audio Owners Unite Thread, but this seems to be a bit general
about all Woo Audio amps. I come from A Feliks Audio Elise & Euforia, both of which are stunning amps for their price point and use 6SN7 drivers and 6080 drivers, very much looking forward to doing some tube rolling with the WA22...


----------



## Contrails

Welcome snapper.  Enjoy the Wa22.  Good amp and a good preamp when you pair it to a neutral SS.  What headphones are you using with yours?


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

Hi Contrails, Many thanks for the welcome, My amp is due to arrive in the next two weeks, I listen with Mr Speakers Aeon Closed & Beyerdynamic T1 Gen2's, plant to connect it to a Cyrus Stereo 200 class d Balanced power amp then out to a pair of KEF LS 50's, how about you?


----------



## Contrails

Nice. We would love to hear your review of the wa22 vs Feliks amps. 

No headphones atm. I am waiting for the ZMF  Auteur to be released in some dark exotic wood. I was using the LCD-X before.  I use the Wa22 as pre with Epos K2 speakers and Cambridge Audio CXA80 amp.


----------



## BillinSF (May 31, 2018)

Snapper.  That setup makes you da man!   Enjoy.

Please post some pics when your baby gets set up.


----------



## smodtactical

Anyone running a WA22 with a HD 800S? Hows the pairing?


----------



## AlexDDD

Great but you should use an equally talented DAC for the best results


----------



## silversurfer616

To confirm the DAC comment. Had the WA22 with HE-6 and LCD3 and I was quite happy with it to be fed by a Cyrus and Rega Apollo CDplayer or in balanced mode through a HRT Streamer.
Then I had the chance to get a Metrum HEX and at first was hesitant to pull the trigger but everything is on a different level now and the CDplayers I just use as transport.
A good source can change everything for the better.


----------



## Contrails

smodtactical said:


> Anyone running a WA22 with a HD 800S? Hows the pairing?



It is very good.  Definitely on par with the HDV820. But your source has to be very good as well to make this combo shine.


----------



## smodtactical

Contrails said:


> It is very good.  Definitely on par with the HDV820. But your source has to be very good as well to make this combo shine.



I wonder if a great DAC+WA22 will sound much different than the HDV 820. Im guessing it probably will.


----------



## koiloco

smodtactical said:


> I wonder if a great DAC+WA22 will sound much different than the HDV 820. Im guessing it probably will.


"Great" sometimes could be subjective.  I recently went to a Gumby Gen 5 for DAC and have been very satisfied with the purchase.  The combo is very organic, analog...ish sounding.
I have always run my WA22 with HD800.  Couple times, I thought about selling HD800 and go for HD800S.  However, I've been happy with my HD800 EQed so there's really no absolute need.
Recently, I tried out Sonarworks.  The software put my EQ skill to shame.  Long story short, I have no longer want to get HD800s.  I do dig the black color theme though...


----------



## Contrails (Jul 15, 2018)

smodtactical said:


> I wonder if a great DAC+WA22 will sound much different than the HDV 820. Im guessing it probably will.



I have compared the two side by side.  The HDV820 is a solid state amp so it has all the pros of a SS design - a little more cleaner sound but a bit polite/laid back.  You could even say it's effortless in the way it presents the music.  It still sounds warm and very enjoyable to listen to.  Reminded me of the V200 in a way.  The WA22 has all the pros of a Tube amp - big soundstage, amazing euphonic sounding mids and extended treble with a little sparkle too (depending on the tubes).  HD800S with WA22 for symphony is really something special!


----------



## smodtactical

Contrails said:


> I have compared the two side by side.  The HDV820 is a solid state amp so it has all the pros of a SS design - a little more cleaner sound but a bit polite/laid back.  You could even say it's effortless in the way it presents the music.  It still sounds warm and very enjoyable to listen to.  Reminded me of the V200 in a way.  The WA22 has all the pros of a Tube amp - big soundstage, amazing euphonic sounding mids and extended treble with a little sparkle too (depending on the tubes).  HD800S with WA22 for symphony is really something special!


Which DAC did you hear with the WA22 ?


----------



## Contrails

Holo Spring Level 3. 

My Wa22 was running Jupiter copper foil caps and resistors. This is a highly recommended upgrade.


----------



## abvolt

I've heard others do that same upgrade to their amps @Contrails does it make a noticeable difference in sq (expense vs reward)..Thanks & enjoy


----------



## Contrails (Jul 17, 2018)

I found it noticeable - almost like a digital edge was taken off and it became more smooth/natural sounding.  This was while using the WA22 in preamp mode feeding a mid-level Onkyo receiver and Epos K2 speakers.

The Jupiter copper foil caps are highly regarded and are definitely worth the money if you are wanting to max out the WA22.  I only changed the components that were in the signal path.  The rest is stock.  I consulted Glenn about this before carrying out this upgrade.  But if you are really nuts - I would change the Transformers.  This is my only gripe with the WA22, the ratio of cost to performance to get the WA22 sounding amazing is absolutely crap. But with the right headphones and setup, it sounds fabulous.


----------



## tejanolibre

Hola Amigo! 
How the hell are you doing today? 
Nobody ever bothers to ask anymore! 

I just received a Matrix X Pro DAC ESS Sabre 9038Pro Chip And I am using it with my Woo Audio WA -22 fully balanced from the computer to the DAC to the amp and to the Cardas Clear XLR 3 pin upgrade cables feeding the HD800 S series latest version. 

Still playing with the DAC and all the different options but I have been able to listen to DSD 256 Files and once I get rid of the pops and clicking and drop outs I think that I will be very happy with the system. 

A word of advice. 
Never bid on an auction when you are in an altered state! 
Specially for vacuum tubes!


----------



## abvolt

Those caps don't look difficult to replace either @Contrails thanks for the pic I'll have to check into doing that also. @tejanolibre I've been looking at that dac very nice, I tried to get the Matrix Sabre Dac about 3 years ago but could never find anyone who had it in stock I gave up and got the dac-10, where did you buy it if you don't mind me asking only if it's in the states..thanks


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Hey guys, time to do a power tube upgrade, i'm thiking about the 5998s does it have a preferred brand ? How much it cost (in avarage) ? 

Thank you !!

BTW: I'm with a GEC U52 , and a pair of ECC35... thinking to get a 596 and a reserve pair for drivers (lower cost just to no always use the ECC35, if you have any tip too I appreciate it)


----------



## tejanolibre

http://matrix-digi-usa.com/news

Mr. Arthur Power's Personal Service is awesome !

Retail plus free shipping !

Thanks and good luck !

I don't know anything about the "Caps."

Ramiro


----------



## tejanolibre

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hey guys, time to do a power tube upgrade, i'm thiking about the 5998s does it have a preferred brand ? How much it cost (in avarage) ?
> 
> Thank you !!
> 
> BTW: I'm with a GEC U52 , and a pair of ECC35... thinking to get a 596 and a reserve pair for drivers (lower cost just to no always use the ECC35, if you have any tip too I appreciate it)





Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hey guys, time to do a power tube upgrade, i'm thiking about the 5998s does it have a preferred brand ? How much it cost (in avarage) ?
> 
> Thank you !!
> 
> BTW: I'm with a GEC U52 , and a pair of ECC35... thinking to get a 596 and a reserve pair for drivers (lower cost just to no always use the ECC35, if you have any tip too I appreciate it)





https://wooaudio.com/tubes-all

Woo has improved but is "cornering" the market on tubes !

RG


----------



## abvolt

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hey guys, time to do a power tube upgrade, i'm thiking about the 5998s does it have a preferred brand ? How much it cost (in avarage) ?
> 
> Thank you !!
> 
> BTW: I'm with a GEC U52 , and a pair of ECC35... thinking to get a 596 and a reserve pair for drivers (lower cost just to no always use the ECC35, if you have any tip too I appreciate it)


 You're going for one of my favorites the Tung Sol 5998's (200.-250. each sometimes less) you'll really enjoy them I also like the U52, and the ECC35 that's the combo I use most of the time not sure it gets any better for the wa22..enjoy


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

abvolt said:


> You're going for one of my favorites the Tung Sol 5998's (200.-250. each sometimes less) you'll really enjoy them I also like the U52, and the ECC35 that's the combo I use most of the time not sure it gets any better for the wa22..enjoy





tejanolibre said:


> https://wooaudio.com/tubes-all
> 
> Woo has improved but is "cornering" the market on tubes !
> 
> RG


Thanks !!!


----------



## abvolt

I know tube prices are only going up but some of the tubes Woo is selling like the 596 for 350. I bought 2 last year for 80. each, if you look you can sometimes find the 5998's for 100.-150 not easy but they do come around look daily if you can..good luck


----------



## tejanolibre (Jul 26, 2018)

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Thanks !!!


I paid $70.00 dollars on Ebay a few months ago for a Mighty 596 and the seller said that he just sold Woo a bunch of vacuum tubes that he had. 

You do get the adapter for the $370.00 at least!

Definitely cornering the market because they are very hard to find on Ebay now. 

Every vacuum tube that is desirable.

And Tung Sol 5998s are hardly ever seen in a pair of NOS anymore.


----------



## Contrails

There's a lot of 'NOS' tubes on eBay that are not actually NOS.  They just happen to be lightly used and get passed on as NOS cos the seller still has the original box and most buyers don't have tube testers to confirm the published test results.  So, do be careful.  I would rather use a reputable seller like vacuumtubes.net


----------



## tejanolibre

Like these tubes !


https://www.ebay.com/itm/VT-99-TUNG...OLD/253708578331?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144



EXTREMELY RARE NOS TUNGSOL BLACK ROUND PLATE 38768F PAIR TUBES 6F8G VT-231 6SN7


NEVER BID WHILE YOU ARE MANGLED !


THANKS AGAIN,


Ramiro


Stranded in Audiophile HELL !


----------



## abvolt

Wow those sure did go up in price, I will say this they sound soo good I have 6 pair left sold 4 pair wish I'd kept them now..Watch the habit or you'll be like me spending many times the price of you're amp on tubes..enjoy


----------



## paulomario77

abvolt said:


> Wow those sure did go up in price, I will say this they sound soo good I have 6 pair left sold 4 pair wish I'd kept them now..Watch the habit or you'll be like me spending many times the price of you're amp on tubes..enjoy



Been there, done that.


----------



## davehg

Contrails said:


> I found it noticeable - almost like a digital edge was taken off and it became more smooth/natural sounding.  This was while using the WA22 in preamp mode feeding a mid-level Onkyo receiver and Epos K2 speakers.
> 
> The Jupiter copper foil caps are highly regarded and are definitely worth the money if you are wanting to max out the WA22.  I only changed the components that were in the signal path.  The rest is stock.



My WA22 had this upgrade by the previous owner when I bought it, so hard to compare as I didn’t start with a stock WA22. I am using with a Sony ES HapZ1ES source in balanced mode and it sounds magnificent with Senn HD650s and balanced Cardas clear HP cables. I use a pair of LCD3s but those sound better with my WA5.


----------



## tejanolibre

I fully AGREE but the E-Bay seller's name changes and my unobtainable Purchase History of the Tubes in question are very important issues that would probably overlooked in an ad IMHO.

Thanks Again,
RG


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Manufacturers like us buy tubes in large quantities. We test every tube to verify the quality and that it meets our expectations for the type of tube. If it doesn't, we return them to the seller. There have been times that we reject the entire batch. It is possible that the rejected tubes does not go into the recycle bin.

We stand behind the tubes we sell with a warranty and we provide tech support if there's a concern.


----------



## tejanolibre

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have been but I was just ranting about the latest pricing and availability and I understand that business is business and I have absolutely nothing against that practice. 

But the prices are going up very quickly and I am very interested in the business. 
Thanks again for your help and advice. 
Sincerely, 
Ramiro Guerrero
Stranded in Audiophile Hell!


----------



## HiFiGuy528

tejanolibre said:


> I apologize for any inconvenience this may have been but I was just ranting about the latest pricing and availability and I understand that business is business and I have absolutely nothing against that practice.
> 
> But the prices are going up very quickly and I am very interested in the business.
> Thanks again for your help and advice.
> ...



No hard feelings at all. 

This applies to almost everything in life. Prices are not all equal. If something is truly worth the X amount, rest assure that the seller will ask for it. When something costs significantly less, there may be a good reason for it.


----------



## attmci

tejanolibre said:


> I apologize for any inconvenience this may have been but I was just ranting about the latest pricing and availability and I understand that business is business and I have absolutely nothing against that practice.
> 
> But the prices are going up very quickly and I am very interested in the business.
> Thanks again for your help and advice.
> ...


After I looked at the WOO tube price, I got your points.


----------



## abvolt (Sep 22, 2018)

Too high right..


----------



## geraldshanghai

hello all

I just bought a WA22 2nd Gen.  Happy to confirm that wa22 now really can well drive HIFIMAN HE1000 v2。

I notice that the stock 5ug4 tube is a russian tube, the sonic performance isn't that nice.  However the stock Raytheon 6080 and Sylvania 6SN7 do sound better.  Replacing a decent 5u4g tube, there is no need to replace 6080 and 6sn7, then you already can enjoy WA22 2nd Gen.  Of course changes to better sonic quality 6SN7 or 6080 will only make you happier.


----------



## abvolt

Congrats & enjoy


----------



## FYB-2 (Sep 24, 2018)

tejanolibre said:


> https://wooaudio.com/tubes-all
> 
> Woo has improved but is "cornering" the market on tubes !
> 
> RG


Yeah, but at what cost? $170 for 3-tubes (stock) for a WA6 or $165 for 5-tubes (stock) for a WA22 is pretty steep. I'll continue to shop the internet.

Sure do like my WA6, regardless. Jonesing for a WA22.


----------



## Kamingjackchan (Oct 12, 2018)

我本週買了wa22 ..買舊金山woo音頻經銷商。這是wa22（1代）$ 1,750 FLOOR SAMPLE ..
這種顏色是黑色..但是
由於暴露在陽光下，顏色從黑色變為銅棕色。但是在黑色之前我感覺很美。很多......現在我的AK380上的顏色搭配......哈哈


----------



## FYB-2

Contrails - see a motorized Alps volume control in your upgraded WA22. Was that part of the mods? That is probably the biggest hang-up I have on moving up from the WA6 to the WA22. Over 3X the price and no remote volume control.


----------



## abvolt

I wasn't aware woo even offers remote control on their amps, It's just more to go wrong anyway simple is always better..


----------



## FYB-2

Pretty sure that Woo does not offer a remote. That's why I'm asking about the mods on Contrails WA22.


----------



## attmci

FYB-2 said:


> Contrails - see a motorized Alps volume control in your upgraded WA22. Was that part of the mods? That is probably the biggest hang-up I have on moving up from the WA6 to the WA22. Over 3X the price and no remote volume control.


It's most likely stock (upgraded from a DACT LOL).


----------



## leftside

FYB-2 said:


> Contrails - see a motorized Alps volume control in your upgraded WA22. Was that part of the mods? That is probably the biggest hang-up I have on moving up from the WA6 to the WA22. Over 3X the price and no remote volume control.


I don't know of many hi-end amps with a remote. That's usually the job for the preamp.


----------



## FYB-2 (Sep 27, 2018)

Many of us don't use a preamp these days. I want the WA22 as a 'stand-alone' piece fed by my portable DAC. Thus the need for a remote volume control so we aren't getting up and down all the time to get to the volume knob.


----------



## attmci

FYB-2 said:


> Many of us these days don't use a preamp these days. I want the WA22 as a 'stand-alone' piece fed by my portable DAC. Thus the need for a remote volume control so we aren't getting up and down all the time to get to the volume knob.


?????


----------



## Arjestin (Oct 11, 2018)

Tung-Sol 7236 Tube Variations:
There seem to be at least 2 versions of this 7236 Tung-Sol tube - One with black label on metal base and another with red label on metal base. The third (more rare version) has a white label. I got one with red label. Anyone knows the difference?


----------



## attmci

Arjestin said:


> Tung-Sol 7236 Tube Variations:
> There seem to be at least 2 versions of this 7236 Tung-Sol tube - One with black label on metal base and another with red label on metal base. The third (more rare version) has a white label. I got one with red label. Anyone knows the difference?


The color of the label.


----------



## Arjestin

attmci said:


> The color of the label.



So there isn't any audible difference between a 7236 tube with a white label and one with a red label? Rumor has it that Tung-Sol manufactured 7236 tubes between 1960 and 1965 for Joint Army Navy. The label colors (and batch numbers) represent different manufacturing periods. Unfortunately, I am unable to confirm this information. Do you know anything about this?


----------



## leftside

Is the construction of the 7236 tubes the same?


----------



## koven

'Downsized' to the WA22 a while back... it's an awesome amp! Using TS 5998 and Sophia 6SN7 + 274B.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

koven said:


> 'Downsized' to the WA22 a while back... it's an awesome amp! Using TS 5998 and Sophia 6SN7 + 274B.


Look like!! I just upgrade Tung Sol 5998 and KR 274B by WooAudio.. But 5998 tube letter is green..


----------



## mahesvara

koven said:


> 'Downsized' to the WA22 a while back... it's an awesome amp! Using TS 5998 and Sophia 6SN7 + 274B.


 So koven, you gave in to temptation and got the 5998? lol Did you get them from ebay or Woo?


----------



## koven

Kamingjackchan said:


> Look like!! I just upgrade Tung Sol 5998 and KR 274B by WooAudio.. But 5998 tube letter is green..



Did you buy both from Woo Audio? 



mahesvara said:


> So koven, you gave in to temptation and got the 5998? lol Did you get them from ebay or Woo?



Hah yeah... I couldn't swallow Woo's price but found a reasonable deal on eBay.


----------



## mahesvara

koven said:


> Hah yeah... I couldn't swallow Woo's price but found a reasonable deal on eBay.


 How do you like the 5998 so far? Any plan to upgrade the 274B any time soon? I found the Sophia Princess 274B doesn't resolve all that well. I have the Takatsuki 274B. That thing's amazing with WA22.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

mahesvara said:


> How do you like the 5998 so far? Any plan to upgrade the 274B any time soon? I found the Sophia Princess 274B doesn't resolve all that well. I have the Takatsuki 274B. That thing's amazing with WA22.


Yes I buy 5998 and KR274b both tube on woo...So far compare stock tube sounds is better little bit.. before volume I need go to 11 but now only 9 is good..and stock tube before Volume 0 I can feel something noise..but right now is better.. Takatsuki 274b over Thousand ..so expensive.. but I like wa22 tube amp sounds great and The sound is very clear..


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Anybody have feel some noise on wa22?
I have talk to woo and he say maybe headphones cable problem..so I buying Nordost Heimdall 2 to my lcd-xc .and Change tube too ..but for now I volume zero I also sometimes feel little bit like tinnitus sounds..


----------



## Badas

mahesvara said:


> How do you like the 5998 so far? Any plan to upgrade the 274B any time soon? I found the Sophia Princess 274B doesn't resolve all that well. I have the Takatsuki 274B. That thing's amazing with WA22.



I'm having a new found respect for the TAK274B. It seems to handle acoustics beautifully. 
Compared to the Brimar 5Z4 it is a little bass light but the naturalist sound is very addictive.


----------



## Badas

Kamingjackchan said:


> Anybody have feel some noise on wa22?
> I have talk to woo and he say maybe headphones cable problem..so I buying Nordost Heimdall 2 to my lcd-xc .and Change tube too ..but for now I volume zero I also sometimes feel little bit like tinnitus sounds..



I had all sorts of noise problems for the first 18 months with the WA22. Switching to balanced input connection did a lot to fix.
I don't have any noise issues now.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Badas said:


> I had all sorts of noise problems for the first 18 months with the WA22. Switching to balanced input connection did a lot to fix.
> I don't have any noise issues now.


I have used ak380 balance output to wa22 and balance to my lcd-xc. But for night time very quiet and volume to zero I can feel Very slight like tinnitus sounds.. But it didn't affect the sense of hearing.. every time  I try put in headphones cable I can feel it..Maybe I have a sensitive ear.. but Mojo and ak380 No any noise problem...


----------



## Badas

Kamingjackchan said:


> I have used ak380 balance output to wa22 and balance to my lcd-xc. But for night time very quiet and volume to zero I can feel Very slight like tinnitus sounds.. But it didn't affect the sense of hearing.. every time  I try put in headphones cable I can feel it..Maybe I have a sensitive ear.. but Mojo and ak380 No any noise problem...



That's odd. I can't advise on that.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

I found my 5998 tube look like The trace from scratching.. but I Touch outside I don’t have feel cracks... this is normal?


----------



## mahesvara

Kamingjackchan said:


> this is normal?


 Doesn't look normal. You should ask @HiFiGuy528 if you can get this replaced.


----------



## koven

mahesvara said:


> How do you like the 5998 so far? Any plan to upgrade the 274B any time soon? I found the Sophia Princess 274B doesn't resolve all that well. I have the Takatsuki 274B. That thing's amazing with WA22.



I think the 5998 change made the most difference! Especially on bass. I like it a lot. Yeah I may look into a better 274B in the future. To be honest I only got the Sophia because I like the aesthetic, lol.


----------



## attmci (Oct 13, 2018)

Kamingjackchan said:


> Yes I buy 5998 and KR274b both tube on woo...So far compare stock tube sounds is better little bit.. before volume I need go to 11 but now only 9 is good..and stock tube before Volume 0 I can feel something noise..but right now is better.. Takatsuki 274b over Thousand ..so expensive.. but I like wa22 tube amp sounds great and The sound is very clear..


Does the TS 5998 came with original box? Just curious.

A pair I collected......the boxes look like shxxt, but the tubes are beautiful.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

attmci said:


> Does the TS 5998 came with original box? Just curious.
> 
> A pair I collected......the boxes look like shxxt, but the tubes are beautiful.


I buying to woo audio 5998..than have original box but box looks good..not likely you shxxt box lol....but the box  they don’t have written information..only see 5998


----------



## attmci

Kamingjackchan said:


> I buying to woo audio 5998..than have original box but box looks good..not likely you shxxt box lol....but the box  they don’t have written information..only see 5998


Could you please post a picture of the box?


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Kamingjackchan said:


> I buying to woo audio 5998..than have original box but box looks good..not likely you shxxt box lol....but the box  they don’t have written information..only see 5998


I buying 1 pair 5998 to woo Audio..
But this weeks the tube have a something like scratch .. but outside I have Touch is nothing..and I turn on the wa22 power ..I can  listen my tube come out like bell sounds..
But after around 5 min is no more bell sounds..so I don’t is tube broken or  normal ..and I email to woo audio talking my tube have something like  scratch ..but he say 
Vintage tubes are not going to be visually perfect. Rest assured that the tubes we sell are tested for performance before they are offered to customers.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

attmci said:


> Could you please post a picture of the box?


Okay I can post photos on here ..around 30min..I am working


----------



## attmci

Kamingjackchan said:


> Okay I can post photos on here ..around 30min..I am working


Wow, don't work too hard. Have a nice weekend.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

attmci said:


> Wow, don't work too hard. Have a nice weekend.


Thanks you..I all ways working 6 days for weeks..


----------



## Kamingjackchan

attmci said:


> Could you please post a picture of the box?


I think he convert new box


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Kamingjackchan said:


> I think he convert new box


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Badas said:


> That's odd. I can't advise on that.[/QUOTE
> I already knew there was a problem..Is my power strip...right now I change power strip..
> No more noise..


----------



## mahesvara

@Kamingjackchan I'm glad you found the source of the noise. Yeah, your tube amp is quite sensitive to fluctuations from power source ...


----------



## Kamingjackchan

mahesvara said:


> @Kamingjackchan I'm glad you found the source of the noise. Yeah, your tube amp is quite sensitive to fluctuations from power source ...


Yeah....I am very happy.. 
you are right this amp is high sensitive ..
Sometimes I touch that..and sounds will be go to my headphone


----------



## abvolt

I'd agree with you @koven the 5998's are great sounding & also one of my favorites, you're driver tubes also make huge differences in sq try ecc31.32,33,35..


----------



## attmci

WA22 works well with clear-top 5998 (WE421a-substitute), and *all silver-bottom* 6SN7W(/A), GZ34. Gorgeous sound with LCD-3F.


----------



## BillinSF

Kamingjackchan said:


> Yeah....I am very happy..
> you are right this amp is high sensitive ..
> Sometimes I touch that..and sounds will be go to my headphone


I paid up for an expensive power cable and I've never had a noise problem.  So many ways to spend money...


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> WA22 works well with clear-top 5998 (WE421a-substitute), and *all silver-bottom* 6SN7W(/A), GZ34. Gorgeous sound with LCD-3F.


Very similar setup to me


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> Very similar setup to me


----------



## Kamingjackchan

BillinSF said:


> I paid up for an expensive power cable and I've never had a noise problem.  So many ways to spend money...


I have buying Audioquest NRG-Y3 US Power Cord ..but not expensive..About $140


----------



## tejanolibre (Oct 19, 2018)

Howdy Mutually INFECTED Audiophiles !

I am using a pair of N.O.S TS-5998's that WOO Audio was kind enough to sell me for $400.00 a pair a short while ago and I think that they are $450.00 now . I think. WRONG ! TS-5998's no longer offered on the  Woo Audio website. Now it's :   
*Chatham 5998 Tubes*
from 250.00 per tube.  A few months ago I paid $70.00 for the "Mighty" 596 in the box on Flea-Bay and there were a lot of them available . Now they are completely gone from Flea-Bay and the sellers  are pushing the :   NOS / NIB Raytheon RK60 / 1641 Full Wave Rectifier Tube as a replacement. 


  B

 



But Woo has all the "Mighty" 596's that you want:
*596 USAF Tube With Adapter (New Old Stock)*
from 350.00. ( with the appropriate adapter at least . )

 

 

One more very inexpensive and very IMPORTANT $10.00 item! Or $90.00 if you don't look hard on Flea-Bay :    https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Stax-Protection-Cover-Earspeaker-Headphone-STAX-CPC-1-

Japan/161832576442?epid=1675634571&hash=item25adf925ba:g:jo8AAOSwHjNV~vnZ:rk:3f:0
STAX Protection cover STAX CPC-1 New
( 112298620330 )


Add note
ITEM PRICE:
US $9.98


 

 

 

    Absolutely a perfect fit over your favorite Cans while perched on a Woo "SIngle" headphone stand . ZERO DUST ! Just turn the STAX emblem around ! A must have but I got Lucky ! The Japanese are really trying to destroy the audio equipment prices !



 

 

 STAX Protection cover STAX CPC-1 New
( 112298620330 )

ITEM PRICE:
US $9.98

PS- I am also using a set of  N.O.S -EXTREMELY RARE NOS TUNG-SOL BLACK ROUND PLATE 38768F PAIR TUBES 6F8G from the U.S Navy 1942 . Probably got bent over ! But I have ( 3 ) and I only need ( 2 ) !

Happy Listening !

Ramiro

Stranded in Audiophile HELL ! 

Buenos Aires !


----------



## Kamingjackchan

tejanolibre said:


> Howdy Mutually INFECTED Audiophiles !
> 
> I am using a pair of N.O.S TS-5998's that WOO Audio was kind enough to sell me for $400.00 a pair a short while ago and I think that they are $450.00 now . I think. WRONG ! TS-5998's no longer offered on the  Woo Audio website. Now it's :
> *Chatham 5998 Tubes*
> ...


 I just order Chatham 5998 tube to woo audio couple weeks is $500 pair..but He send me is tung sol 5998 not is Chatham 5998


----------



## attmci

tejanolibre said:


> Howdy Mutually INFECTED Audiophiles !
> 
> I am using a pair of N.O.S TS-5998's that WOO Audio was kind enough to sell me for $400.00 a pair a short while ago and I think that they are $450.00 now . I think. WRONG ! TS-5998's no longer offered on the  Woo Audio website. Now it's :
> *Chatham 5998 Tubes*
> ...


What's wrong with the Raytheon RK60 / 1641? Have you tried one?

WOO had never forced you to buy anything...............................


----------



## attmci

Kamingjackchan said:


> I just order Chatham 5998 tube to woo audio couple weeks is $500 pair..but He send me is tung sol 5998 not is Chatham 5998


Same thing.


----------



## tejanolibre

attmci said:


> What's wrong with the Raytheon RK60 /
> 
> 
> attmci said:
> ...





What's wrong with the Raytheon RK60 / 1641? Have you tried one?

WOO had never forced you to buy anything...............................[/QUOTE]

1641? Have you tried one?

WOO had never forced you to buy anything...............................[/QUOTE]


_Not much of a choice to buy the tubes that were on the market at that moment and Woo Audio's tubes were from a reliable source and Woo's service  is impeccable and personally administered by the Owners. Absolutely ZERO complaints or regrets on my part !  

As for the Raytheon RK60 / 1641 tubes : I have a very nice N.O.S example but I don't have the adapter yet ! Dying to try it out Buddy !

Happy Listening !

Ramiro   _


----------



## attmci (Oct 21, 2018)

tejanolibre said:


> What's wrong with the Raytheon RK60 / 1641? Have you tried one?
> 
> WOO had never forced you to buy anything...............................



1641? Have you tried one?

WOO had never forced you to buy anything...............................[/QUOTE]


_Not much of a choice to buy the tubes that were on the market at that moment and Woo Audio's tubes were from a reliable source and Woo's service  is impeccable and personally administered by the Owners. Absolutely ZERO complaints or regrets on my part !  

As for the Raytheon RK60 / 1641 tubes : I have a very nice N.O.S example but I don't have the adapter yet ! Dying to try it out Buddy !

Happy Listening !

Ramiro   _[/QUOTE]
At current price (<$35?), I like this very old tube (1940s). It can be labeled as either GE or Raytheon.  Cheers!

WOO had made wonderful amps and done good jobs.

You may haven't heard some early headphone amp. stories like this:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...ke-a-hand-grenade-and-yours-might-too.437344/

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/where-is-singlepower-where-is-mikhail.333677/

WOO came after SP...........


----------



## paulomario77

Badas said:


> I wouldn't use a WA22 with a LCD-4. You need a 300B amp.
> 
> The WA22 doesn't power my Ether Flows well at all and they require less power.
> WA22 falls apart on Ether. Switch Ether to SS V281 and everything comes alive.
> ...



I beg to disagree. Up until last month I was using the Oppo HA-1 as the DAC, and my most expensive and sophisticated cans were the HiFiMAN HE560. But now my source is a PS Audio DirectStream Junior, and the LCD-4 arrived on Friday. So it was a complete revamp of my system.

On the WA22 I'm using the U52 rectifier, but I also have the fat-bottle-brown-base GZ37, the Brimar 5R4GY and the mighty USAF 596. Drivers are the ECC31, and for power I use a pair of GE 6BL7GTA on each channel. The Audeze is driven effortlessly, the volume dial at 11 o'clock is already quite loud. Massive, beautifully textured bass, delightful and forward mid-range, and subtly rolled-off highs compose a sound signature I never thought would be within my reach. The level of detail makes my other phones sound "pixelated" in comparison. But detail is not a distraction on the LCD-4, doesn't make one loose focus on the music, but rather is something available to the critical listener. In terms of soundstage, the HE560 / WA22 combo was already exceptional for my standards, but with the LCD-4 I finally get the feeling that the singers' voice comes from the middle, and is front of me, instead of coming from both sides of the phone simultaneously. The voice is projected right in from of me, it's simply amazing!

In essence, one cannot go wrong with the WA22 and the LCD-4, care taken to upgrade it with the right tubes.


----------



## attmci (Nov 11, 2018)

paulomario77 said:


> I beg to disagree. Up until last month I was using the Oppo HA-1 as the DAC, and my most expensive and sophisticated cans were the HiFiMAN HE560. But now my source is a PS Audio DirectStream Junior, and the LCD-4 arrived on Friday. So it was a complete revamp of my system.
> 
> On the WA22 I'm using the U52 rectifier, but I also have the fat-bottle-brown-base GZ37, the Brimar 5R4GY and the mighty USAF 596. Drivers are the ECC31, and for power I use a pair of GE 6BL7GTA on each channel. The Audeze is driven effortlessly, the volume dial at 11 o'clock is already quite loud. Massive, beautifully textured bass, delightful and forward mid-range, and subtly rolled-off highs compose a sound signature I never thought would be within my reach. The level of detail makes my other phones sound "pixelated" in comparison. But detail is not a distraction on the LCD-4, doesn't make one loose focus on the music, but rather is something available to the critical listener. In terms of soundstage, the HE560 / WA22 combo was already exceptional for my standards, but with the LCD-4 I finally get the feeling that the singers' voice comes from the middle, and is front of me, instead of coming from both sides of the phone simultaneously. The voice is projected right in from of me, it's simply amazing!
> 
> In essence, one cannot go wrong with the WA22 and the LCD-4, care taken to upgrade it with the right tubes.


Congratulations on the LCD-4. If you wish, you can try to use 421 as power, and 6SC7GTY (with adapter) as driver!  Cheers!


----------



## paulomario77

attmci said:


> Congratulations on the LCD-4. If you wish, you can try to use 421 as power, and 6SC7GTY (with adapter) as driver!  Cheers!



Thank you! I also have a pair of TS 5998's, I understand these are the same as the WE 421A's. I actually had a pair of 421's but returned them to the seller on eBay, the were VERY microphonic. Date codes placed them in the 70's, so presumably quality was declining.

The quad 6BL7's give me comparable gain to the 5998's / WE421A's, but with imperceptible microphonics. Besides the LCD-4 and HE560, I also have a Fostex TH-X00, which is very sensitive. Using the 5998, if I tap on the desk where the WA22 is placed, I can hear it on the Fostex. Even typing on the keyboard can be heard through the cans. With the 6BL7's, the Fostex is dead silent. I suspect that a larger tube is more prone to microphonics because its internal parts are larger and more suibject to vibrations.


----------



## FYB-2

Still jonesing for a WA22. Am spending more time with my BHA-1 & WA6, but they may go to be replaced with a WA22. Keep the info coming. Important to read other's experience(s). Thx.


----------



## attmci (Nov 12, 2018)

paulomario77 said:


> Thank you! I also have a pair of TS 5998's, I understand these are the same as the WE 421A's. I actually had a pair of 421's but returned them to the seller on eBay, the were VERY microphonic. Date codes placed them in the 70's, so presumably quality was declining.
> 
> The quad 6BL7's give me comparable gain to the 5998's / WE421A's, but with imperceptible microphonics. Besides the LCD-4 and HE560, I also have a Fostex TH-X00, which is very sensitive. Using the 5998, if I tap on the desk where the WA22 is placed, I can hear it on the Fostex. Even typing on the keyboard can be heard through the cans. With the 6BL7's, the Fostex is dead silent. I suspect that a larger tube is more prone to microphonics because its internal parts are larger and more suibject to vibrations.


Sorry to hear your problems with the HI-MU power tubes.

I have been using a pair of clear-top 2399 (yes, they are *true 421A sub*) without any  micro-phonic problems. Yes, I do have all the "greatest" 6AS7 tubes, but these clear-top 2399 stays 90% of the time. BTW, I like the 6BL7/6BX7 combo, but just don't like the adapters. LOL

Glad you found the tubes you like on the WA22.


----------



## attmci (Nov 11, 2018)

Badas said:


> Update on my amp.
> 
> I had enough of it. Struggled for years with hum.
> 
> ...



..................

This is the only one WA22, to my knowledge, had tons of noise problems in the past. I am so very glad he fixed it.


----------



## leftside

Western Electric 421A from the 70's and 80's are most definitely not TungSol 5998 as TungSol as a company were no longer around by then. I have the 421A from the 70's and 80's are they are very fine tubes. Obviously still being quite old, some may have been used more than others.

I have a WA2 and a 300B headphone amp. I also have the LCD-3 and LCD-4 headphones. The WA22 with high powered tubes such as ECC35 and ECC33 + TungSol 5998 or 6BL7 and the LCD-3 sounds great. But, it's not enough for the hungry LCD-4. The LCD-4 really shines with a higher powered headphone amp such as the Glenn 300B or Woo 300B. Impossible to upgrade everything at once I know....


----------



## davehg

I have to agree with LeftSide. It’s not that the Audeze planers sound bad on the WA22 or that there isn’t enough power to produce sufficient volume. But listen on a 300b amp and the LCDs come alive in a big way, stronger more controlled bass and effortless range. That’s not a knock on the WA22 but rather just good system matching.


----------



## paulomario77

leftside said:


> Western Electric 421A from the 70's and 80's are most definitely not TungSol 5998 as TungSol as a company were no longer around by then. I have the 421A from the 70's and 80's are they are very fine tubes. Obviously still being quite old, some may have been used more than others.
> 
> I have a WA2 and a 300B headphone amp. I also have the LCD-3 and LCD-4 headphones. The WA22 with high powered tubes such as ECC35 and ECC33 + TungSol 5998 or 6BL7 and the LCD-3 sounds great. But, it's not enough for the hungry LCD-4. The LCD-4 really shines with a higher powered headphone amp such as the Glenn 300B or Woo 300B. Impossible to upgrade everything at once I know....



Wow, I think the LCD-4 sounds great with the WA22 already, but as they say, ignorance is a bliss. Later this month I'll get an iFi Pro iCAN, which I hope has more than enough power to drive the LCD-4.

I'm curious, why do you say the WA22 isn't enough for the LCD-4? My volume control never goes beyond 12 o'clock, and even at sound levels at the limit of my comfort I don't hear any distortion.


----------



## paulomario77

davehg said:


> I have to agree with LeftSide. It’s not that the Audeze planers sound bad on the WA22 or that there isn’t enough power to produce sufficient volume. But listen on a 300b amp and the LCDs come alive in a big way, stronger more controlled bass and effortless range. That’s not a knock on the WA22 but rather just good system matching.



Sorry, I replied to leftside before reading your comments.


----------



## paulomario77

Do you guys think the DNA Stratus should drive the LCD-4 successfully, or it would be underpowered as well?


----------



## leftside

davehg said:


> I have to agree with LeftSide. It’s not that the Audeze planers sound bad on the WA22 or that there isn’t enough power to produce sufficient volume. But listen on a 300b amp and the LCDs come alive in a big way, stronger more controlled bass and effortless range. That’s not a knock on the WA22 but rather just good system matching.


Agreed. Says it better than I did 

It's a little expensive to purchase the LCD-4 AND a 300B amp. I've always gone the route of purchasing something that I know is better than the rest of my gear, and then gradually purchase/match gear over time/as funds allow.


----------



## paulomario77

leftside said:


> Agreed. Says it better than I did
> 
> It's a little expensive to purchase the LCD-4 AND a 300B amp. I've always gone the route of purchasing something that I know is better than the rest of my gear, and then gradually purchase/match gear over time/as funds allow.



Pretty nice piece of advice, thank you.


----------



## leftside

Haven't tube rolled for a while, but tried a few different combos tonight with the LCD3's. The LCD3's definitely appreciate the extra power of the ECC35 + TungSol 5998, but perhaps this is slightly too much gain as when I added the ECC35 there was a very slight hum in the right channel. Rolled in the GEC 6AS7G. Not as much power as the TS 5998, but headphones were dead silent with no music playing and the ECC35 provided enough extra gain. Mullard ECC35 + GEC 6AS7G + Cossor 53KU = a winning combo for the WA22.


----------



## abvolt

I'll bet that is a great combo,as soon as I get a pair of the gec's I'll let you know gorgeous tubes..


----------



## Doggymon (Dec 6, 2018)

I am a new owner of WA22 2nd gen.

To any would be WA22 owner, I think you might be disappointed with the WA22 if you are expecting something fantastic the moment you reached home and plugged it in.

It doesn't sound good off the shelves. You will be spending a lot of money on tube rolling to get it to perform somewhat adequately. I spend us$2000 on tubes and I am unhappy with the performance of the amp. If I reside in the States, I would have returned the amp for a refund.

I find the amp to be lifeless and lack dynamic with the stock tube. With a U52, 5692, CV181 and 5998, it is slightly better *only*.

I have solid state amp that perform much better and more musical at a much lower price point.

I wouldn't exactly say this is a bad amp. It is decent, average at most but for all the hype around this amp, I felt it is over rated. It's quiet, no doubt and very well made. Tube rolling affect musicality at a very subtle level. The cost to performance ratio just don't cut it.

It's is NOT a amp that you can plug in and enjoy. There is no omph and wow at first slight.

BTW, I'm pairing this with a HD600, hd800, hd800s.

If anyone have any suggestion on how to improve my listening experience, please do advise. I have replace the cap with Mundoft Gold..the improvement are slight....

On a side note, tube rolling is fun but without the result to go with it. Well...oh well.


----------



## abvolt

Well first I'd suggest that you give you're new amp some burn-in time before deciding the wa22 is "lifeless and lacks dynamics" which I disagree with even with the stock tubes.

 Also another suggestion would be to listen to you're amp for some time with the stock tubes that way you'll notice the differences when you become educated in tube rolling it take time. Going out and buying the best tubes that some are the best doesn't mean their the best for you.

 Lots of trial & error with tubes, remember expensive tubes does not mean best sounding their just more rare.

The wa22 is an amazing sounding amp with huge tube rolling options you made a good choice..


----------



## Doggymon

abvolt said:


> Well first I'd suggest that you give you're new amp some burn-in time before deciding the wa22 is "lifeless and lacks dynamics" which I disagree with even with the stock tubes.
> 
> Also another suggestion would be to listen to you're amp for some time with the stock tubes that way you'll notice the differences when you become educated in tube rolling it take time. Going out and buying the best tubes that some are the best doesn't mean their the best for you.
> 
> ...




I really hope I did not make a wrong choice. I spend about 3 weeks on the stock tube.

I am giving it another go, I have another 22 sets of tubes coming for the WA22. I really hope to find a combination I will be happy with.

I think audio is very personal, the problem might be me.


----------



## FYB-2

Sophia Electric tubes have certainly done a great job in upgrading the sound of my Woo WA6. Once I get a WA22 my first reach will be for a set of Sophia Electric tubes.


----------



## attmci

Doggymon said:


> I really hope I did not make a wrong choice. I spend about 3 weeks on the stock tube.
> 
> I am giving it another go, I have another 22 sets of tubes coming for the WA22. I really hope to find a combination I will be happy with.
> 
> I think audio is very personal, the problem might be me.


Tube rolling won't make your $2000 amp to become a $4000 one. It's insane to spend that much money on tubes in such a short period. You should buy other sets of headphones use the money.

If you don't like it, just sale it to a local head-fier.

Don't get me wrong. I love my amp and know what tubes best fit MY tastes.

Good luck!


----------



## davehg

I agree that a stock WA22 with stock tubes sounds a bit underwhelming, but not lifeless. I spent another $300 on tubes, and running it balanced with a balanced source gives you a much better experience than running it single ended, especially with Senns.

I find it one of the best matches with the HD650.


----------



## SilverEars

Anybody compare the WA22 to WA5?  I know certain differences like WA22 is fully balanced, but what differences do you guys find in sonic qualities between them.  

Anybody have extensive experiences with Woo stuff?  Like what is the difference between WA6 and the SE, and differences between WA6, WA22, and WA5.  Thanks.


----------



## daverich4

Seriously? You have a bunch of posts so you're not new to this. Two or three minutes of search would reveal literally thousands of posts answering your questions. Or are you asking that, after a decade or so of people discussing those topics on Head-Fi, that we'll start at the beginning for you?


----------



## davehg (Dec 9, 2018)

Silver, I currently own both the 22 and the 5, and upgraded from the 6 SE.

The 22 can sound a bit clinical depending on tubes. I actually preferred the 6SE initially until I changed out the stock tubes. The reason for buying the 22 was to run a balanced system as I had read so many positive comments from running the HD650s fully balanced. I found that with a balanced source and the tube upgrades, the system became tonally neutral and a tad warmer in the mid range, and bettered the 6 SE. The 22 is a wonderful match for Senns but only fully balanced IMHO.

But then came the 5. It is not balanced, and while the stock tubes can be improved without too much expense, the 5 sounded magnificent out of the gate and only improved with tube rolling. The 5 was capable of handling any headphone I threw at it. Mine had the upgraded caps.

The 5 sounds big, powerful, lush and with terrific balance. In hindsight I should have just bypassed the 22, because factoring in having to upgrade tubes and balanced cables, the cost was about the same as the stock 5.

Too be clear, this is not a slam of the 22, which continues to sound wonderful but primarily on a fully balanced system using Sennheisers and Focal Clears. Rather, the 5 excels with many sources, and all headphones. I’ve replaced the 300b tubes with Genelecs and the rectifier and the sound improved but not quite as dramatically as the 22.


----------



## SilverEars (Dec 9, 2018)

davehg said:


> Silver, I currently own both the 22 and the 5, and upgraded from the 6 SE.
> 
> The 22 can sound a bit clinical depending on tubes. I actually preferred the 6SE initially until I changed out the stock tubes. The reason for buying the 22 was to run a balanced system, and I found that with a balanced source and the tube upgrades, the system became tonally neutral and a tad warmer in the mid range, and bettered the 6 SE.
> 
> ...


That's what I've been reading that WA5 sounds generally good (most consistant), and WA22 is a bit picky?  Can somebody expand on this on the WA22.  I need some specifics.

In terms of shear performance, is WA5 just better?  There is a significant cost difference from WA6SE or WA22 to WA5 (LE).  Why is there such a significance in terms of cost?

It just sounds to me that balanced doesn't mean better as WA5 exemplifies.  I know WA5 has the most output power out of them all (8W).


----------



## davehg (Dec 9, 2018)

SilverEars said:


> That's what I've been reading that WA5 sounds generally good (most consistant), and WA22 is a bit picky?  Can somebody expand on this on the WA22.  I need some specifics.
> 
> In terms of shear performance, is WA5 just better?  There is a significant cost difference from WA6SE or WA22 to WA5 (LE).  Why is there such a significance in terms of cost?



I think the WA5 is better. Everything is more - more separation of instruments, more body, more dynamics. The 5 is more musical with a wider variety of gear and with less fuss than the 22.

From a cost standpoint, there are more parts with larger transformers and two chassis. The 5 is nearly twice the size of the 22 and weighs 2.5 times more. Lots of iron! The 5 uses two 274 rectifiers instead of one. 300 b tubes are significantly more expensive, adding to the cost. The power supply on the 5 is massive. The upgraded 5 version uses larger and more expensive caps. Look under the hood and you’ll see.

Not sure why the 22 is more tube finicky. I’ve not rolled as many tubes as others but just read and took the recommended pairings here, at the price point I could tolerate. I should note my 22 has upgraded Jupiter copper caps too, adding another $400.

Last week I had a chance to hear the WA33 vs the 22. The 33 was more refined than the 5 but the gap with the 33 and the 5 wasn’t as large as the gap with the 22 vs the 5. The 33 just improved on the strengths of the 5 rather than sounding altogether different.

You can read all you want but hearing the different amps will be more helpful. I wasn’t able to hear these amps before I bought them, and relied on the ears of those I trusted who were not wrong.


----------



## tejanolibre

attmci said:


> What's wrong with the Raytheon RK60 / 1641? Have you tried one?
> 
> WOO had never forced you to buy anything...............................



PRICE Increased again on the Tung Sol 5998's . Now $600.00 a pair ! Told you so !

Thanks ,

RG


----------



## attmci (Dec 17, 2018)

tejanolibre said:


> PRICE Increased again on the Tung Sol 5998's . Now $600.00 a pair ! Told you so !
> 
> Thanks ,
> 
> RG



https://wooaudio.com/tubes/tungsol-5998-pair

Nice 5998. Ask the seller if the tube microphonic if you wanna to grab these.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-sale-pair-tung-sol-5998-ibm-labeled.894346/


----------



## attmci

davehg said:


> I think the WA5 is better. Everything is more - more separation of instruments, more body, more dynamics. The 5 is more musical with a wider variety of gear and with less fuss than the 22.
> 
> From a cost standpoint, there are more parts with larger transformers and two chassis. The 5 is nearly twice the size of the 22 and weighs 2.5 times more. Lots of iron! The 5 uses two 274 rectifiers instead of one. 300 b tubes are significantly more expensive, adding to the cost. The power supply on the 5 is massive. The upgraded 5 version uses larger and more expensive caps. Look under the hood and you’ll see.
> 
> ...



Who did that? Woo? You know how much those caps cost, right?


----------



## attmci

SilverEars said:


> That's what I've been reading that WA5 sounds generally good (most consistant), and WA22 is a bit picky?  Can somebody expand on this on the WA22.  I need some specifics.
> 
> In terms of shear performance, is WA5 just better?  There is a significant cost difference from WA6SE or WA22 to WA5 (LE).  Why is there such a significance in terms of cost?
> 
> It just sounds to me that balanced doesn't mean better as WA5 exemplifies.  I know WA5 has the most output power out of them all (8W).


Do want to drive speakers? Use with WEE? Then you need WA5.


----------



## davehg (Dec 16, 2018)

attmci said:


> Who did that? Woo? You know how much those caps cost, right?



An audio shop did this. I think the caps were around $250 and the rest was labor.


----------



## davehg

attmci said:


> Do want to drive speakers? Use with WEE? Then you need WA5.



They make three versions of the WA5: plain Jane headphone amp only (WA5 LE), upgraded parts version of the headphone amp, and the full version that includes speaker terminals (WA5)

I run my WA5 with speakers too and it works great.


----------



## FYB-2

Easy to change coupling caps in tube gear. If you can solder you can change the caps. At least you should be able to do so.


----------



## attmci (Dec 17, 2018)

davehg said:


> They make three versions of the WA5: plain Jane headphone amp only (WA5 LE), upgraded parts version of the headphone amp, and the full version that includes speaker terminals (WA5)
> 
> I run my WA5 with speakers too and it works great.



I know. I was try to help @SilverEars.


----------



## abvolt

Here's a very nice combo to try a pair of 6BL7's , ECC35's, GZ34 it's has a nice clear sound..


----------



## attmci (Dec 19, 2018)

abvolt said:


> Here's a very nice combo to try a pair of 6BL7's , ECC35's, GZ34 it's has a nice clear sound..


You have LCD-3 and WA22. Have you tried 5998/421A plus 6188 (with cheap rectifier tube like this one)? ECC35 is over-priced.


----------



## abvolt

yes I have all of them I roll different tubes and try new combos all the time, the ecc35's are one of my favorite variants of the 6sn7..


----------



## leftside

You can get ECC35's for reasonable prices from reputable dealers. The early versions (late 40's to early 50's) are very expensive due to their rarity value, but later ones are cheaper and sound just as good (to my ears). The LCD-3 really appreciate the extra gain with the ECC35.


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> You can get ECC35's for reasonable prices from reputable dealers. The early versions (late 40's to early 50's) are very expensive due to their rarity value, but later ones are cheaper and sound just as good (to my ears). The LCD-3 really appreciate the extra gain with the ECC35.


Same gain as the one I listed earlier today. And I have other favorites. 

I have the ECC tubes, but I will use Fivre and other tubes to replace these over-priced ones.

Just like I prefer clear-top 5998 to 421A.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Just like I prefer clear-top 5998 to 421A.


From what I can tell, the clear-top/bottom micas 5998 is the same tube as the 421A. Construction appears exactly the same to me. The clear-top/bottom mica 5998 seem about as rare as the 421A today.

The later 1970's and 1980's 421A is definitely made by Western Electric as Tung-Sol as a company were no longer around by then.


----------



## attmci (Dec 20, 2018)

leftside said:


> From what I can tell, the clear-top/bottom micas 5998 is the same tube as the 421A. Construction appears exactly the same to me. The clear-top/bottom mica 5998 seem about as rare as the 421A today.
> 
> The later 1970's and 1980's 421A is definitely made by Western Electric as Tung-Sol as a company were no longer around by then.



See the attached file.
WE-421A.pdf
5998.pdf

Need to find out the relationship between the Chatham and WE (a Bell company).

"Chatham Electronics Div was latterly a Division of Tung-Sol Electric Inc, Livingston, NJ. This in turn was part of Wagner Electric Corp in 1966 finally acquired by Studebaker in 1967. The Chatham organisation manufactured equipment but the tubes owe more to Tung-Sol as Chatham was not independent of their parent company."

"
The 1967 merger that created the company was arranged by the entrepreneur Derald Ruttenberg, who took the risk of buying Studebaker despite the liabilities that came with it, including dealer warranties and union agreements. He saw that Onan generators and STP engine additives were healthy businesses. The large tax loss was also valuable. Worthington was expected to continue to earn steady profits, but could use the tax loss to avoid paying taxes.[6]

"The stockholders of Studebaker and Worthington approved the merger despite rumors that the Federal Trade Commission considered the merger would be "substantially anti-competitive". The combined 1966 gross revenues of the two companies had been $672 million, with net income of $24.5 million.[7] Studebaker was acquired by Wagner Electric, which in turn was merged with Worthington Corporation to create Studebaker-Worthington.[8] The merger was completed in November 1967, creating a company with $550 million of assets.[9] The combined company included the profitable divisions from Studebaker, brake and electrical automobile component manufacturing from Wagner Electric, and diverse operations from Worthington that included manufacture of construction equipment, valves and power generation plant.[5]"

Did they spin off some divisions during the merge?

WE do have a history to design tubes to support the phone company.


Link to the old debate.


----------



## leftside

Right, so 421A tubes after 1967 must be Western Electric as Tung-Sol was no longer a company.


----------



## attmci

The detailed structures between the 57 Clear-top 2399 and the 56 WE 421A are different.

All mine clear-top tubes were produced in 57. Strange.


----------



## davehg

I recently added a Roon Nucleus to my system, which now controls my modded SB3/TriVista DAC. Roon ships with an Audeze DSP filter for all of their models, so I fired up the filter for the LCD3. What do you know - it improved the pairing with the WA22. So much so that I preferred this pairing to the Focal Clear. But I still dug the HD650 pairing with the WA22 too.

I’m only a few days into using the Roon Nucleus but I am totally sold on this setup for my digital sources. Integrates wonderfully with Tidal and controls all my home systems. Just need to play with a new DAC to see what can be improved.


----------



## FYB-2 (Dec 23, 2018)

That's good to read. Got an Intel Node(?) for Xmas and will be running with Roon after the New Year.


----------



## paulomario77

davehg said:


> I recently added a Roon Nucleus to my system, which now controls my modded SB3/TriVista DAC. Roon ships with an Audeze DSP filter for all of their models, so I fired up the filter for the LCD3. What do you know - it improved the pairing with the WA22. So much so that I preferred this pairing to the Focal Clear. But I still dug the HD650 pairing with the WA22 too.
> 
> I’m only a few days into using the Roon Nucleus but I am totally sold on this setup for my digital sources. Integrates wonderfully with Tidal and controls all my home systems. Just need to play with a new DAC to see what can be improved.



Roon is great, isn't it? A whole new way to consume music. As my FLAC library is relatively small (~500 CDs), my Core runs on my Synology DS718+, and I don't have any system other than my headphones setup, so performance out of the NAS is great. It streams to my Directstream Junior via its Bridge II interface.


----------



## davehg

paulomario77 said:


> Roon is great, isn't it? A whole new way to consume music. As my FLAC library is relatively small (~500 CDs), my Core runs on my Synology DS718+, and I don't have any system other than my headphones setup, so performance out of the NAS is great. It streams to my Directstream Junior via its Bridge II interface.



Add Tidal and your collection is now infinitely larger. My new resolution is not to buy any new albums except on vinyl, and only after I’ve used Tidal to discover if I like it.

 I love the way Roon has integrated Tidal, and I just need to try an MQA DAC to see if it really is worth the upgrade. 

The price for a Roon is a bit high but I’ll still pay the fee - nice OS for music that really makes you wonder why any manufacturer bothers with creating and maintaining their own app. What I love is the ability to use one interface for all my music systems, and choose the gear that best suits my tastes, instead of being tied into a manufacturers ecosystem and waiting/hoping they support a streaming service (I am looking at you, Sony ES).


----------



## BillinSF (Dec 26, 2018)

Bump


----------



## koven

BillinSF said:


> This post is for price-insensitive audiophiles looking for  peak performance from the Woo WA22 platform.   My honest opinions are below.  Thousands of dollars of cost are mentioned to maximize this platform's potential.  What you read below are my thoughts and a chance for those who want it, to snag some real honeys of the tubes this amp was built for.  I'm an anal, computer and lawyer guy who went razyu collecting but that was my fun.  I want those who really appreciate the music to now have a chance to optimize.  Interested in further discussions, you can PM me.  Otherwise enjoy/criticize what you may read as snobby, but it's just what I've learned adn what I've collected.
> I am going to post an "outside the box" post for Woo WA22 fans.  Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all, except some may disagree with some of the things I post.  Disagree and comment if you like, but here we go.  I'm revealing myself here, so no abuse please. There is a very happy ending here.  A chance to  snag the f'ing finest tubes for this amp that exist.  For those who read on, the rewards await.
> 
> Two years ago, at age 60, as a lifetime audiophile, I discover this new-to-me magical concept of headphone tube amps.  Woo WA 22 pops up in my research very quickly as the best platform.  I am cursed with being able to afford things within reason, but I am a detail-oriented computer guy turned lawyer,  so I do my homework.  I discover the following.
> ...



Have you considered trading up to the WA5 or WA33 at this point? Seems like a more bang for buck way to spend a few extra thousand than rolling tubes in the 22.


----------



## BillinSF (Dec 26, 2018)

Bump


----------



## attmci

BillinSF said:


> Bump


LOL


----------



## artvandelay9

Does anyone have any thoughts on power tubes that fall somewhere between the stock 6080's and the 7236's? I've got both, and while I love the sound of the 7236 with _most_ headphones, they seem like they've simply got too much juice for others.


----------



## abvolt

Try a pair of 6BL7's 0r 6BX7's you can even use quad 6BL7's with adapters. 5998's are king those are my favorites..


----------



## attmci

artvandelay9 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on power tubes that fall somewhere between the stock 6080's and the 7236's? I've got both, and while I love the sound of the 7236 with _most_ headphones, they seem like they've simply got too much juice for others.


Bendix 6080WB


----------



## artvandelay9

abvolt said:


> Try a pair of 6BL7's 0r 6BX7's you can even use quad 6BL7's with adapters. 5998's are king those are my favorites..





attmci said:


> Bendix 6080WB



Thanks guys. 

I've heard 5998's are excellent, though I'm not currently wanting to drop that much as I just got the amp a month or so ago and have already upgraded. Just finding that the 7236 have too much power for some things, though are perfect for my planar's. Will check out the Bendix version of the 6080.

Any thoughts on 6AS7G's?


----------



## FYB-2

My WA6 (have a pair of them) sound terrific with the 6SN7 adapters and Sophia Electric tubes. Can't imagine that the WA22 would not also.


----------



## abvolt

artvandelay9 said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I've heard 5998's are excellent, though I'm not currently wanting to drop that much as I just got the amp a month or so ago and have already upgraded. Just finding that the 7236 have too much power for some things, though are perfect for my planar's. Will check out the Bendix version of the 6080.
> 
> Any thoughts on 6AS7G's?



A lot of people will say the GEC 6as7's I've not been able to find a pair plus  pricey, Try to find a pair of 40's/50's rca I really enjoy their sq very smooth sound..


----------



## Contrails

7236 were one of my fav tube for the WA22.  Especially with the GZ34 metal base rectifier.  7236s and Bendix 6080WBs were the only tubes that adds dynamics and doesn't make the WA22 sound slow.  I have tried the 5998 and 6BL7.   The only downside to using the 7236 is it can somewhat sound dry and maybe sound more solid state.  6BL7 was the worst tube I tried.  Luckily, they were cheap.


----------



## schugh

I got the 1st gen from a local dealer at a great price back in October.

I was just wondering if someone can articulate what the other tube upgrades will bring to the table. 
Not so much the brand, but rather I mean, what do the Driver Tubes do to the sound and the power tubes?
I have a lead on some 6SN7 driver tubes.

My headphones are the LCD-4, HD800S and PS1000.

Thanks.


----------



## BillinSF

schugh said:


> I was just wondering if someone can articulate what the other tube upgrades will bring to the table.
> Not so much the brand, but rather I mean, what do the Driver Tubes do to the sound and the power tubes?
> I have a lead on some 6SN7 driver tubes



I sent you a PM with an old head-fi posting that described the tonality of dozens of driver tubes.


----------



## attmci

Contrails said:


> 7236 were one of my fav tube for the WA22.  Especially with the GZ34 metal base rectifier.  7236s and Bendix 6080WBs were the only tubes that adds dynamics and doesn't make the WA22 sound slow.  I have tried the 5998 and 6BL7.   The only downside to using the 7236 is it can somewhat sound dry and maybe sound more solid state.  _6BL7 was the worst tube I tried_.  Luckily, they were cheap.


_I don't think the 6BL7/6BX7 are that bad. Anyone else?_


----------



## attmci

schugh said:


> I got the 1st gen from a local dealer at a great price back in October.
> 
> I was just wondering if someone can articulate what the other tube upgrades will bring to the table.
> Not so much the brand, but rather I mean, what do the Driver Tubes do to the sound and the power tubes?
> ...


LCD-4........tough to drive. You need at least 421A/5998 as power and 6SL7 as driver. But not recommended.

Forget about the 6SN7/GEC6AS7 etc.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> _I don't think the 6BL7/6BX7 are that bad. Anyone else?_


I bought a quad of 6bl7 with adapter to use as power tubes. Lets see , a friends of mine said that as a terrific combo


----------



## abvolt

I enjoy the 6bl7's..


----------



## leftside

Another upvote here for the 6BL7 and 6BX7.

Decided to try out the 6F8G tubes again. Hadn't had much luck with these in the past as I always found them to be noisy. Makes a difference if the two tubes have exactly the same construction. Really liking the Philco's and RCA's.


----------



## Badas (Jan 27, 2019)

I only use 6F8g type. Love them. Actually using TS roundplate 6C8g. I have 32 (16 sets) of them and none are noisy. I've rolled all of them once to make sure.

You have to keep those wires away from other tubes. On these adapters the wires go out the back away from all other tubes. On your pic that right hand driver tube  wire looks close to the power tube. You can push those wires into the body a bit. 

I noticed your amp is on in the picture without HP's plugged in. No load. Is it being used as a pre-amp? Does using as a pre-amp count as a load?


----------



## leftside

Badas said:


> I only use 6F8g type. Love them. Actually using TS roundplate 6C8g. I have 32 (16 sets) of them and none are noisy. I've rolled all of them once to make sure.
> 
> You have to keep those wires away from other tubes. On these adapters the wires go out the back away from all other tubes. On your pic that right hand driver tube  wire looks close to the power tube. You can push those wires into the body a bit.
> 
> I noticed your amp is on in the picture without HP's plugged in. No load. Is it being used as a pre-amp? Does using as a pre-amp count as a load?


Guess I just had noisy pairs in the past (thrown out now), but these latest sets are good. 

The wires are actually quite forward, and away from the power tubes. I could also move them behind the 6F8G, and slightly inwards towards the rectifier - away from those fat power tubes.

I just unplugged the headphones for the picture to get the cables out of the way. I prefer the earlier version of the WA22 without the preamp, as we have.


----------



## moemoney (Jan 28, 2019)

I just want to say I’m a new owner of a WA 22 and I’ve been monitoring the break in of this unit ever since I’ve got it.  I’ve had this unit about a little over a week and I’m noticing that after100 hours the sound signature went to a hold New level  I mean it just opened up the voices went to a  “ you are there “ type of sound it’s  that sweetness to the sound. And this is coming from stock tubes so I’m very excited and I am looking forward to upgrading my tubes but one step at a time, let me finish with the break in process but this was something I had to post because I can’t believe what I’m hearing right now all I can say is wow.

Sorry that I put this in a reply, but i'm somewhat new to this.


----------



## Badas

moemoney said:


> I just want to say I’m a new owner of a WA 22 and I’ve been monitoring the break in of this unit ever since I’ve got it.  I’ve had this unit about a little over a week and I’m noticing that after100 hours the sound signature went to a hold New level  I mean it just opened up the voices went to a  “ you are there “ type of sound it’s  that sweetness to the sound. And this is coming from stock tubes so I’m very excited and I am looking forward to upgrading my tubes but one step at a time, let me finish with the break in process but this was something I had to post because I can’t believe what I’m hearing right now all I can say is wow.
> 
> Sorry that I put this in a reply, but i'm somewhat new to this.



WA22 is a great amp. Enjoy it. I wasn't too sure at first and now after a number of years I really like it.
Interestingly I have the V281 which I really thought it made something like the WA22 obsolete. V281 is really great and on some music there is nothing in it. Actually V281 kills on bass. 
On slow vocal type of music WA22 has its place and I can't pick what it is but tubes win. 



leftside said:


> Guess I just had noisy pairs in the past (thrown out now), but these latest sets are good.
> 
> The wires are actually quite forward, and away from the power tubes. I could also move them behind the 6F8G, and slightly inwards towards the rectifier - away from those fat power tubes.
> 
> I just unplugged the headphones for the picture to get the cables out of the way. I prefer the earlier version of the WA22 without the preamp, as we have.



Yeah. I wondered if the photo wasn't showing wires in the correct position.


----------



## attmci

Badas said:


> WA22 is a great amp. Enjoy it. I wasn't too sure at first and now after a number of years I really like it.
> Interestingly I have the V281 which I really thought it made something like the WA22 obsolete. V281 is really great and on some music there is nothing in it. Actually V281 kills on bass.
> On slow vocal type of music WA22 has its place and I can't pick what it is but tubes win.
> 
> ...


You had bought too many tubes for the WA22. So you can't........it.


----------



## leftside

Some new driver tubes


----------



## moemoney

leftside said:


> Some new driver tubes


 What does those driver tubes bring to the party it looks very interesting


----------



## attmci

moemoney said:


> What does those driver tubes bring to the party it looks very interesting


Yup, I am also interested in how you rank this setup.


----------



## leftside

moemoney said:


> What does those driver tubes bring to the party it looks very interesting


Those are GEC L63 ST driver tubes. My initial thoughts are they sound as good as the Mullard ECC31 - ECC35 tubes. I've been very impressed. The only problem is you need four, and you need the 2 * 6J5 to 1 * 6SN7 adapters. Finding four of these tubes with matching construction is hard. I have many different pairs, but only a few quads. I'll post my impressions of a few different quads, such as GEC stickered, Osram stickered, and the cheaper US brands such as Raytheon over the next few days/weeks.


----------



## attmci

I always try to avoid to use adapters.


----------



## abvolt

looks interesting I'll be watching for your impressions..


----------



## leftside

Turns out I had plenty of time this afternoon and evening, so I thought I'd try out the rest of these quads of 6J5 and L63 tubes. Mainly listened to rock and electronic music. Cossor 53KU rectifier and TungSol 6520 power tubes (very similar to 5998)

First up, my regular goto tube: the ECC33. Soundstage that can't be beat. Very alive sounding. Super clear. Rock out to these. Seem to have a little more gain than most of the other tubes.


----------



## leftside

Next up GEC military 6J5G coke bottle (see photo 2 posts back). Just that little bit of extra magic. Very easy to simply close your eyes and get lost in the music. Sounds very similar to the very expensive B65. 

The GEC L63 coke bottle sounds very similar to the military 6J5G. I can't really see into the tubes, due to the smoke grey glass, but the micas appear to be exactly the same. These are probably the same tubes, but one designated military.


----------



## leftside

Next up the Raytheon. First thing that struck me with these tubes was the bass. Very powerful. Maybe not as refined as the other tubes, but very happy to have these in my toolkit.


----------



## leftside (Mar 9, 2019)

Finally, the GEC L63 tall bottle brown base. To my ears, these sound very similar to the other GEC tubes. If I had to choose between them I'd probably go for the coke bottle. Just a slight extra sparkle and detail. There's a guy on eBay selling quite a few of these, so if interested you could pick up a quad.







I also tried out a pair of Fivre 6N7GT that I received this week. Grey plates, bottom D getter 1960. Another great set of tubes with a very good hard hitting impactful sound. Definitely a top tube. Just a smidgen less magic compared to the other tubes. Overall sound not quite as defined.

Summary: these are all great tubes. Right there with the best of the driver tubes I've listened to on the Woo WA22. Which ones am I keeping in my amp for now? The GEC stickered L63 coke bottle. Ideally, I'd like to listen to each set of tubes for at least a week, rather than just these A/B comparisons from this evening, so I reserve the right to adjust my thoughts in the future  I remember putting early 1949 RCA 12AX7's in my main amps for a couple of months before I decided things were just ever so slightly too warm and rolling in some Telefunken's instead.


----------



## abvolt

Very cool I'm going to be trying these, you mentioned these tubes have to be used in pairs can you explain why thanks..enjoy


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> Next up the Raytheon. First thing that struck me with these tubes was the bass. Very powerful. Maybe not as refined as the other tubes, but very happy to have these in my toolkit.



The Raytheon tubes are the ones doubled up using adapter on each driver tube spot? Where do you get an adapter like that? And what is the #/model name of this tube? 

I recently got a WA22 w/complete NOS tube set, but only now, after the fact, starting to learn about other possibilities. So your posts are intriguing, to say the least!


----------



## attmci

Pharmaboy said:


> The Raytheon tubes are the ones doubled up using adapter on each driver tube spot? Where do you get an adapter like that? And what is the #/model name of this tube?
> 
> I recently got a WA22 w/complete NOS tube set, but only now, after the fact, starting to learn about other possibilities. So your posts are intriguing, to say the least!


The adapter can be obtained from east bay.

This is just for fun. The nice NOS EU tubes of this kind are no longer cheap. 

You should try the "traditional tubes" before getting these.

PS I learned you like SS for your LCD-3F too. Is that true?


----------



## Pharmaboy

Thanks for your advice. It sounds pretty rationale/reasonable to me...

I had a pre-fazor LCD-3...an old model w/the lower impedance (they upped it in later models). This was months before I got the WA22. That was a lovely headphone and it sounded pretty amazing on the V281. 

Too bad I can't hear it on the WA22...that probably would be off the charts sound.


----------



## attmci

Pharmaboy said:


> Thanks for your advice. It sounds pretty rationale/reasonable to me...
> 
> I had a pre-fazor LCD-3...an old model w/the lower impedance (they upped it in later models). This was months before I got the WA22. That was a lovely headphone and it sounded pretty amazing on the V281.
> 
> Too bad I can't hear it on the WA22...that probably would be off the charts sound.



Both @leftside and myself had used the LCD-3F with the WA22.

I am using clear-top 5998/WE 421A as power tube.


----------



## leftside

Pharmaboy said:


> The Raytheon tubes are the ones doubled up using adapter on each driver tube spot? Where do you get an adapter like that? And what is the #/model name of this tube?
> 
> I recently got a WA22 w/complete NOS tube set, but only now, after the fact, starting to learn about other possibilities. So your posts are intriguing, to say the least!


Raytheon 6J5. Doubled up using one of these adapters:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-6J5-6J5-...Amplifier-Convert-Socket-Adapter/312213040699

Honestly, these tubes sound great. I prefer them over most 6SN7's.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> The adapter can be obtained from east bay.
> 
> This is just for fun. The nice NOS EU tubes of this kind are no longer cheap.
> 
> You should try the "traditional tubes" before getting these.


Not just for fun  Now you have the chance of using GEC driver tubes in the WA22 for much cheaper than the B65.


----------



## leftside

attmci said:


> Both @leftside and myself had used the LCD-3F with the WA22.
> 
> I am using clear-top 5998/WE 421A as power tube.


Yes sounds great in the WA22 with those power tubes. The LCD-3 definitely appreciates the extra gain of the 5998 tubes.


----------



## attmci

leftside said:


> Not just for fun  Now you have the chance of using GEC driver tubes in the WA22 for much cheaper than the B65.



I will let you take all these"B65". LOL


----------



## leftside (Mar 9, 2019)

Here's the WA22 with a quad of RCA 76 tubes. Straight away I noticed slightly more warmth with these tubes, but unfortunately for us LCD owners they are lacking a little power. I'll try with the Focal Stellia next week.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Badas said:


> I only use 6F8g type. Love them. Actually using TS roundplate 6C8g. I have 32 (16 sets) of them and none are noisy. I've rolled all of them once to make sure.
> 
> You have to keep those wires away from other tubes. On these adapters the wires go out the back away from all other tubes. On your pic that right hand driver tube  wire looks close to the power tube. You can push those wires into the body a bit.
> 
> I noticed your amp is on in the picture without HP's plugged in. No load. Is it being used as a pre-amp? Does using as a pre-amp count as a load?



I've enjoyed your past posts as I work my way through this very helpful thread. Picked up a very new/barely used WA22 a couple weeks ago, still burning that in. It has all NOS tubes the 1st owner put in.

I'm heartened to see a post about 6C8Gs. I'm running an inexpensive pair of them (RCA JAN 6C8G) w/Woo adapters. The look is killer, if I may get all shallow for a moment. 

The sound of this amp is quite a gut-punch to me, as w/one exception (WA3 for high impedance HPs), I've used only SS amp/preamps IMS. This sound is quite lovely to me--biggest/best midrange I've heard since my big/bad 2-channel days (all tube then).

I'm sure the present NOS rectifier (Mullard CV593) can be improved upon. Have my eye of a Mullard/Blackburn GZ34. My objective is to bring the bass up a little bit. It's all there, just not quite at the level of the mids.


----------



## leftside

WA22 Alien Edition


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> WA22 Alien Edition



It looks like an early, automated marshmallow toaster mechanism.

Apparently I'm not the only one who gazes into the glowing tubes of my WA22 like a perfect wood fire in a fireplace...


----------



## leftside (Mar 13, 2019)

Here are some tubes with a nice glow. WE422A, GEC 6J5, GEC 6AS7G:






WE422A, GEC 6J5, WE421A:





I'll have to dig up some driver tubes with a nice glow as well for the complete "glow look".


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Thiking that the WA22 can get 9 tubes


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> WA22 Alien Edition


What model are the driver set ?


----------



## leftside

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> What model are the driver set ?


National Union 7193. $6 each. The adapters are more expensive than the tubes. Lack a little depth that the tubes costing 10* or more cost, but surprisingly good for such cheap tubes.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> National Union 7193. $6 each. The adapters are more expensive than the tubes. Lack a little depth that the tubes costing 10* or more cost, but surprisingly good for such cheap tubes.


Here I compared the Quad 6BL7 vs 5998 and I get a better feel about them. Less microphonic, not a fat bass(which in some cases I love it), and more power.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Thiking that the WA22 can get 9 tubes



That's beautiful. Like a rocket ship mfr'd in 1911.

But a question about those 2-on-1 adapters: can you adjust the angle of each adapter, relative to the body of the amp? (ie, turn entire adapter slightly--while plugged in--so as to avoid another tube, avoid touching transformer, etc)?


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Pharmaboy said:


> That's beautiful. Like a rocket ship mfr'd in 1911.
> 
> But a question about those 2-on-1 adapters: can you adjust the angle of each adapter, relative to the body of the amp? (ie, turn entire adapter slightly--while plugged in--so as to avoid another tube, avoid touching transformer, etc)?


Yes, its possible. They have a long wire conecting the tube pin to the socket pin that goes in  the amp. You have a limit to rotate, the ideal its just fine adjustments.


----------



## leftside

I thought about putting in the 4 6BL7's with adapters as well (great power tubes for the Woo), but things started to get a little cramped.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

All the combo gets about 160, 70 for the quad and 50 for the adapters, and shipping. But I live in brazil so it almost doubled up to get in my hands


----------



## leftside

Had some fun tonight rolling power tubes. With the LCD-3 and especially LCD-4 you are kind of limited to the higher gain power tubes such as 6BL7 and TS 5998. But, I picked up a demo Focal Stellia from some friends of mine yesterday, and now I can enjoy the "regular" 6080/6AS7G. Don't really have too much to add to say about these tubes that hasn't already been said, apart from the Bendix JAN-CEA 6080WB with pair of top halo getters always sounded a bit lightweight with my LCD-3. Not so with the higher sensitivity Stellia. The GEC 6080 I'd put on the same level as the Bendix, and the GEC 6AS7G have all that the other two tubes have, plus slightly better defined and stronger bass.

The only slight problem with higher sensitivity headphones is they are more susceptible to tube noise. Nothing that impacts the music whilst playing, but they might not be suitable for people who look for the blackest of blackest backgrounds from tube amps. Otherwise, the Stellia are truly fabulous and suit my needs perfectly. They are a great match for the WA22.


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> Had some fun tonight rolling power tubes. With the LCD-3 and especially LCD-4 you are kind of limited to the higher gain power tubes such as 6BL7 and TS 5998. But, I picked up a demo Focal Stellia from some friends of mine yesterday, and now I can enjoy the "regular" 6080/6AS7G. Don't really have too much to add to say about these tubes that hasn't already been said, apart from the Bendix JAN-CEA 6080WB with pair of top halo getters always sounded a bit lightweight with my LCD-3. Not so with the higher sensitivity Stellia. The GEC 6080 I'd put on the same level as the Bendix, and the GEC 6AS7G have all that the other two tubes have, plus slightly better defined and stronger bass.
> 
> The only slight problem with higher sensitivity headphones is they are more susceptible to tube noise. Nothing that impacts the music whilst playing, but they might not be suitable for people who look for the blackest of blackest backgrounds from tube amps. Otherwise, the Stellia are truly fabulous and suit my needs perfectly. They are a great match for the WA22.



"Tubes on the floor! OCD ALERT!"

(kidding)

But it is kinda freaky to see all that fragile/beautiful glass on a hardwood floor...


----------



## leftside

Don't worry - they are all packed away nicely in the cabinet now  Better than putting warm tubes on the carpet...


----------



## Pharmaboy

well, as they ought to say (but don't), "Warm tubes mean a warm heart."

Speaking of warm tubes: new/old 1959 Mullard Blackburn GZ34 5AR4 (fat base) is on the way. Also a cherry pair of matched NOS 6BL7GTAs (thanks to advice from @paulomario77). Hope all 3 will be in by the weekend.

Just finished burning in my WA22. It has all NOS tubes (stock tubes are still in the shipping box). I bought these NOS tubes w/the amp, but in the 1-2 weeks I've had it, have learned quite a bit about even better NOS tubes for this great sounding amp. Nice to be able to upgrade w/o buying/selling actual amps, just tubes.


----------



## leftside

Pharmaboy said:


> well, as they ought to say (but don't), "Warm tubes mean a warm heart."
> 
> Speaking of warm tubes: new/old 1959 Mullard Blackburn GZ34 5AR4 (fat base) is on the way. Also a cherry pair of matched NOS 6BL7GTAs (thanks to advice from @paulomario77). Hope all 3 will be in by the weekend.
> 
> Just finished burning in my WA22. It has all NOS tubes (stock tubes are still in the shipping box). I bought these NOS tubes w/the amp, but in the 1-2 weeks I've had it, have learned quite a bit about even better NOS tubes for this great sounding amp. Nice to be able to upgrade w/o buying/selling actual amps, just tubes.


Post pics when they arrive and are installed. Are you going to run 2 6BL7GTAs or 4? Really, you don't need to power tube roll like I have. You could simply use 2 or 4 6BL7's and be set.

What about drivers? So many choices there...


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Pharmaboy said:


> well, as they ought to say (but don't), "Warm tubes mean a warm heart."
> 
> Speaking of warm tubes: new/old 1959 Mullard Blackburn GZ34 5AR4 (fat base) is on the way. Also a cherry pair of matched NOS 6BL7GTAs (thanks to advice from @paulomario77). Hope all 3 will be in by the weekend.
> 
> Just finished burning in my WA22. It has all NOS tubes (stock tubes are still in the shipping box). I bought these NOS tubes w/the amp, but in the 1-2 weeks I've had it, have learned quite a bit about even better NOS tubes for this great sounding amp. Nice to be able to upgrade w/o buying/selling actual amps, just tubes.


Get the same advice from him, you will not regret.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> Post pics when they arrive and are installed. Are you going to run 2 6BL7GTAs or 4? Really, you don't need to power tube roll like I have. You could simply use 2 or 4 6BL7's and be set.
> 
> What about drivers? So many choices there...



I know you dont ask for me, but here I use ECC35


----------



## leftside

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I know you dont ask for me, but here I use ECC35


Top tier tubes. Amongst my favorites for sure. Very good with lower sensitivity planars like the LCD-3 that appreciate the extra gain.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> Top tier tubes. Amongst my favorites for sure. Very good with lower sensitivity planars like the LCD-3 that appreciate the extra gain.


I have a pair of 6SL7GT too. But the 35s is a perfect pair. 

Seems like if you have a WA22 you get a LCD3 too ? I own one, they are fantastic. Auteur is coming. Think they will be a complement pair of cans.


----------



## leftside

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I have a pair of 6SL7GT too. But the 35s is a perfect pair.
> 
> Seems like if you have a WA22 you get a LCD3 too ? I own one, they are fantastic. Auteur is coming. Think they will be a complement pair of cans.


I had the LCD-3 until last Friday. They were sold, and I picked up the Stellia on Monday. I also have the LCD-4. I used to run 6BL7 or TS 5998 + ECC33 or ECC35 and Cossor 53KU fat base with the LCD-3.

The Auteur will compliment the LCD-3 nicely. They have quite a different sound signature. I had them for a while, but ended up selling them to help fund the LCD-4.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> I had the LCD-3 until last Friday. They were sold, and I picked up the Stellia on Monday. I also have the LCD-4. I used to run 6BL7 or TS 5998 + ECC33 or ECC35 and Cossor 53KU fat base with the LCD-3.
> 
> The Auteur will compliment the LCD-3 nicely. They have quite a different sound signature. I had them for a while, but ended up selling them to help fund the LCD-4.


Congratulations for your new headphones, they are excellent choice.

Here in Brazil, it's difficult to have one of these. Warranty, taxes and custom stuff.


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> Post pics when they arrive and are installed. Are you going to run 2 6BL7GTAs or 4? Really, you don't need to power tube roll like I have. You could simply use 2 or 4 6BL7's and be set.
> 
> What about drivers? So many choices there...



The NOS tubes I purchased w/the amp are matched pair RCA JAN 6C8G + 2 Woo adapters w/pigtail that attaches on top. They look fantastic & the amp sounds quite good as is. No idea if these 6C8Gs can be improved on or not.

First up are swapping in the recently purchased 6BL7GTAs (2, 1 in each power tube slot) + NOS Mullard GZ34 5AR4. Then I'll check the sound. My objectives (beyond just playing around) are to get a bit more bass presence, possibly a little more on top of the treble. The mids are pretty fantastic as is...

BTW, I do have 2 planars that may tax this amp. 

One is the ZMF Ori, a real power hog. I may not even bother trying it on the WA22, no matter what tubes are in it. I'm extremely happy w/the sound I get out of the V281 on that, also very good results on the Liquid Carbon v2 (small but potent amp). 
The other is more efficient: a "unicorn" pre-fazor LCD-2.1, one of the older ones. Again, I get great sound on this via SS, also from the Woo WA3 (its impedance is 70 ohms, which I find is high enough to benefit from an OTL). I will try the LCD-2.1 on the WA22.
_Another planar is quite efficient (HEX v2). Already briefly tried it on the WA22 w/good results._


Re ECC35s, 2 questions for any who use these:

Are ECC35s considered better than the 6C8Gs I'm currently running? If yes, what sonic gains could I expect?
And would I need an adapter for them? The only ECC tube listed in the WA22 manual is the ECC32 (no adapter required)

Thanks to everyone here for a most informative thread (a real learning experience).


----------



## Pharmaboy

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I have a pair of 6SL7GT too. But the 35s is a perfect pair.
> 
> Seems like if you have a WA22 you get a LCD3 too ? I own one, they are fantastic. Auteur is coming. Think they will be a complement pair of cans.



I had a beautiful/old pre-fazor LCD-3, recently sold it. Lovely headphone, but I put the money toward WA22 + Empyrean.

I'll bet the Auteur sounds amazing on this amp. Never heard this particular combination. The Aeolus (open-back variant of Atticus) certainly sounded good on the WA22 w/Verite pads.

One HP I'm dying to hear on this amp is the ZMF Eikon (have a beautiful padauk pair). May wait on that until new tubes are in.


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> I had the LCD-3 until last Friday. They were sold, and I picked up the Stellia on Monday. I also have the LCD-4. I used to run 6BL7 or TS 5998 + ECC33 or ECC35 and Cossor 53KU fat base with the LCD-3.
> 
> The Auteur will compliment the LCD-3 nicely. They have quite a different sound signature. I had them for a while, but ended up selling them to help fund the LCD-4.



I can't even imagine how many tubes you must have!!


----------



## leftside

Pharmaboy said:


> The NOS tubes I purchased w/the amp are matched pair RCA JAN 6C8G + 2 Woo adapters w/pigtail that attaches on top. They look fantastic & the amp sounds quite good as is. No idea if these 6C8Gs can be improved on or not.
> 
> First up are swapping in the recently purchased 6BL7GTAs (2, 1 in each power tube slot) + NOS Mullard GZ34 5AR4. Then I'll check the sound. My objectives (beyond just playing around) are to get a bit more bass presence, possibly a little more on top of the treble. The mids are pretty fantastic as is...
> 
> ...


I'd run those current tubes for a while before getting the ECC35's. The tubes you have are good. No adapter required for the ECC35. You can also run the ECC33 no problem and ECC31 (with adapter).

What's the sensitivity of the ZMF Ori? With 4 6BL7's and 2 ECC35's you might be able to run them just fine. That combo worked great with the LCD-3 with sensitivity of 102dB/1mw, but still not quite enough for the LCD-4 with sensitivity of 105dB/1mw.


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> I'd run those current tubes for a while before getting the ECC35's. The tubes you have are good. No adapter required for the ECC35. You can also run the ECC33 no problem and ECC31 (with adapter).
> 
> What's the sensitivity of the ZMF Ori? With 4 6BL7's and 2 ECC35's you might be able to run them just fine. That combo worked great with the LCD-3 with sensitivity of 102dB/1mw, but still not quite enough for the LCD-4 with sensitivity of 105dB/1mw.



Thanks for the advice! Glad to have an excuse to not keep buying NOS tubes to replace NOS tubes I already have (another definition of "insanity")

ZMF doesn't publish specs for the Ori. Fostex' specs for the T50RP MK3 planar (of which the Ori is an extensive mod/rebuilt/revoice) are
50 ohms resistance + 92 dB sensitivity. = a power hog headphone, the most power-demanding HP I've heard IMS (but totally worth it...that's another story).

Here's a rough example of what that means:

On my V281, to get moderately loud volume w/my pre-fazor LCD-3 required the big stepped volume pot be at 10:00-10:30 AM on the dial
For the Ori, equivalent volume required ~12:00-12:30 on the same dial

My guess is the LCD-3 would be fine on the WA22 (no longer have it so can't check). But the Ori probably would not be fine.

And that's totally OK w/me. Powering planars is what my SS amps are made for...


----------



## leftside

Pharmaboy said:


> Thanks for the advice! Glad to have an excuse to not keep buying NOS tubes to replace NOS tubes I already have (another definition of "insanity")


Oh don't worry - I'll have plenty of tubes to suggest in a month or two, but just enjoy those current tubes you have for a while


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Can I ask some question .. 
I have wa22 this amp I very like it.. 
but I don’t have good DAC ... 
for now I only have chord mojo to wa22..
My setup is Computer to mojo and wa22 headphone is lcd-xc... I have used around 7 months.. sounds feel good..but  yesterday some people say I need buy other DAC.. 
He say mojo DAC is like toy.. he say tabletop DAC is better... but I don’t which one tabletop DAC is good and price I want  under  $1500.. someone can you recommend to me?  Thanks you 
And my friend recommend Yulong da10..
This DAC is from China..


----------



## SoLame

Kamingjackchan said:


> Can I ask some question ..
> I have wa22 this amp I very like it..
> but I don’t have good DAC ...
> for now I only have chord mojo to wa22..
> ...


You liked what you have heard for the past 7 months. Why let someone else change that now!


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Kamingjackchan said:


> Can I ask some question ..
> I have wa22 this amp I very like it..
> but I don’t have good DAC ...
> for now I only have chord mojo to wa22..
> ...


Try to extende your price point to a used Hugo2, will be aweasome !


----------



## Kamingjackchan

SoLame said:


> You liked what you have heard for the past 7 months. Why let someone else change that now!


..  Maybe I want to be try.. 
I even have tabletop DAC..


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Try to extende your price point to a used Hugo2, will be aweasome !


Hugo 2 used one around $1600-1800
But new one eBay around $2100
I want try tabletop DAC


----------



## Contrails

How about you keep your current DAC and maybe buy a nice Turntable to compliment the DAC? This way you can have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Contrails said:


> How about you keep your current DAC and maybe buy a nice Turntable to compliment the DAC? This way you can have the best of both worlds.


Thanks you ideas.. I will keep my mojo .. 
mojo is good . and easy to go connect to phone .


----------



## abvolt

leftside said:


> Had some fun tonight rolling power tubes. With the LCD-3 and especially LCD-4 you are kind of limited to the higher gain power tubes such as 6BL7 and TS 5998. But, I picked up a demo Focal Stellia from some friends of mine yesterday, and now I can enjoy the "regular" 6080/6AS7G. Don't really have too much to add to say about these tubes that hasn't already been said, apart from the Bendix JAN-CEA 6080WB with pair of top halo getters always sounded a bit lightweight with my LCD-3. Not so with the higher sensitivity Stellia. The GEC 6080 I'd put on the same level as the Bendix, and the GEC 6AS7G have all that the other two tubes have, plus slightly better defined and stronger bass.
> 
> The only slight problem with higher sensitivity headphones is they are more susceptible to tube noise. Nothing that impacts the music whilst playing, but they might not be suitable for people who look for the blackest of blackest backgrounds from tube amps. Otherwise, the Stellia are truly fabulous and suit my needs perfectly. They are a great match for the WA22.


 Dude that is a nice setup you've got wow it looks real good..


----------



## attmci

abvolt said:


> Dude that is a nice setup you've got wow it looks real good..


I am pretty sure Left wanna to destroy the WA22, so he can tell the wife that a GOTL is needed. LOL


----------



## abvolt

Kamingjackchan said:


> Can I ask some question ..
> I have wa22 this amp I very like it..
> but I don’t have good DAC ...
> for now I only have chord mojo to wa22..
> ...


 
I've been using the Nuprime Dac-10 for about 3 years now it's the best sound I've ever had from a Dac..


----------



## attmci (Mar 18, 2019)

Kamingjackchan said:


> Can I ask some question ..
> I have wa22 this amp I very like it..
> but I don’t have good DAC ...
> for now I only have chord mojo to wa22..
> ...


Take your time.

You will find the DAC you like.

Yes, a bunch of DACs on the market are much better than the one you are using now.

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/fs-silver-directstream-player/9885


----------



## leftside

abvolt said:


> Dude that is a nice setup you've got wow it looks real good..


Thanks! Looks a little tidier with the tubes put away  It's been fun to roll power tubes and other tubes again with a different set of headphones.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

abvolt said:


> I've been using the Nuprime Dac-10 for about 3 years now it's the best sound I've ever had from a Dac..


Thanks you recommended Nuprime DAC 10.. this DAC is my budget Under $1500..


----------



## Kamingjackchan

attmci said:


> Take your time.
> 
> You will find the DAC you like.
> 
> ...


Yes I will take my time looking some good DAC is my budget .. You’ Right market too many DAC.. so I don’t have any ideas.. 
Thanks for you


----------



## moemoney (Mar 18, 2019)

Kamingjackchan said:


> Hugo 2 used one around $1600-1800
> But new one eBay around $2100
> I want try tabletop DAC


I don’t know a single ended DAC on a Balanced amp.  doesn’t seem like you’re going to get the full potential of amp.  I’m using the Ayre’s Codex so I can switch up between solid State and tube and keep everything balanced.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

moemoney said:


> I don’t know a single ended DAC on a Balanced amp.  doesn’t seem like you’re going to get the full potential of amp.  I’m using the Ayre’s Codex so I can switch up between solid State and tube and keep everything balanced.


Yes Hugo 2 no xlr balance output.. 
so I want so tabletop DAC with xlr balance to my wa22 ..


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Kamingjackchan said:


> Yes Hugo 2 no xlr balance output..
> so I want so tabletop DAC with xlr balance to my wa22 ..


My opinion about that, only if you use the Dual 3 pin XLR output, you will get vantage of it. 4 pin XLR use separate ground. RCA output dont share it too. So, make sense to me its ok to use a rca input if you use a 4 pin xlr (wich is way more easy to go than dual pin)

Here i use a direcstream dac, no diferences between xlr and rca.


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> My opinion about that, only if you use the Dual 3 pin XLR output, you will get vantage of it. 4 pin XLR use separate ground. RCA output dont share it too. So, make sense to me its ok to use a rca input if you use a 4 pin xlr (wich is way more easy to go than dual pin)
> 
> Here i use a direcstream dac, no diferences between xlr and rca.


I see ....


----------



## BillinSF

check out Schiit.   https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Kamingjackchan said:


> I see ....


I don’t have tell you.. 
for now I listen music only on YouTube..lol..
I used my computer to mojo And wa22.. 
but I have AK380 with xlr balance Dock to wa22 .. before I have download some music files like flac.. so I put on my AK380.. but now I don’t buying music... only listen YouTube music...  so do you think I buying other tabletop DAC is better or just keep mojo ?


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Kamingjackchan said:


> I don’t have tell you..
> for now I listen music only on YouTube..lol..
> I used my computer to mojo And wa22..
> but I have AK380 with xlr balance Dock to wa22 .. before I have download some music files like flac.. so I put on my AK380.. but now I don’t buying music... only listen YouTube music...  so do you think I buying other tabletop DAC is better or just keep mojo ?


Just keep mojo, get a tidal at least


----------



## Kamingjackchan

BillinSF said:


> check out Schiit.   https://www.schiit.com/products/gungnir


Thanks you.. do you have used it?


----------



## Kamingjackchan

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Just keep mojo, get a tidal at least


Tidal how much for months?
That can download music files to go or only on tidal app to play?


----------



## BillinSF

Tidal hi-fi is $20 per month.  The hi-fi is CD quality sound and really sounds good.  Yes, you can download to go.  Plus  hi-fi subscription provides MQA tracks where available.  I highly recommend Tidal HiFi.

I do not have a Schiit.  But I've heard good things about it.


----------



## leftside

Another Tidal fan here. Your nice gear is a bit of a waste if you're just using YouTube.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

BillinSF said:


> Tidal hi-fi is $20 per month.  The hi-fi is CD quality sound and really sounds good.  Yes, you can download to go.  Plus  hi-fi subscription provides MQA tracks where available.  I highly recommend Tidal HiFi.
> 
> I do not have a Schiit.  But I've heard good things about it.


Roon + Tidal = Love


----------



## Kamingjackchan

BillinSF said:


> Tidal hi-fi is $20 per month.  The hi-fi is CD quality sound and really sounds good.  Yes, you can download to go.  Plus  hi-fi subscription provides MQA tracks where available.  I highly recommend Tidal HiFi.
> 
> I do not have a Schiit.  But I've heard good things about it.


Okay let me check tidal lol. Thanks you


----------



## Kamingjackchan

leftside said:


> Another Tidal fan here. Your nice gear is a bit of a waste if you're just using YouTube.


Lol Yes I know..this 7 months I only using youtube listening music.. so I Always using mojo.. my wa22 just sometimes turn on..lol


----------



## leftside

Roon Radio + Tidal sure beats any radio stations I used to listen to growing up as a kid.


----------



## attmci

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Roon + Tidal = Love


You are using bridge II, usb, or I2S?


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> You are using bridge II, usb, or I2S?


I have two usb interfaces, one is the Singxer Su1 via i2s and the other is the sotm dx usb hd via coaxial


----------



## attmci

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I have two usb interfaces, one is the Singxer Su1 via i2s and the other is the sotm dx usb hd via coaxial


Have you tried to use the bridge II?


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> Have you tried to use the bridge II?


I use to have the bridge I , but here in Brazil, it's too much expensite to buy, prefer using my raspbery pi with roon, to my interfaces and then the ps audio


----------



## attmci

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I use to have the bridge I , but here in Brazil, it's too much expensite to buy, prefer using my raspbery pi with roon, to my interfaces and then the ps audio


I see.


----------



## leftside

It's a metal (base) kind of afternoon.


----------



## attmci (Mar 23, 2019)

leftside said:


> It's a metal (base) kind of afternoon.


Hey☺️ your gz34 is noisey.


----------



## leftside (Mar 23, 2019)

It's fine with most driver and power tubes.


----------



## attmci

Mine is not noisey at all.

But one of mine is dead when it was traveling from EU to the US (welded plate/metal base).

I took the loss because the seller is a friend.


----------



## Pharmaboy

attmci said:


> Hey☺️ your gz34 is noisey.



How do you know? Just by looking at it?

I just installed a 1959 Mullard Blackburn GZ34 fat base this morning. Looks similar except for larger/black base. Burning that in right now.

Also just finished burning in the 2 X GE 6BL7 GTAs. Did just a minute of so of listening late this afternoon--seems to have filled in a bit on top & bottom compared to previous set (Mullard CV593 + matched pair Sylvania Gold Brand 6080).

Really have no idea what I'm doing here--but I'm doing it anyway.


----------



## BillinSF (Mar 23, 2019)

OMG.  Watching NCAA here, and am so pumped up for the Auburn-Kansas game.

But you folks have me so jazzed for the WA22 I am plugging in for some jazz and funk during the game.  I run WE 422A rectifier (1959), through TS 5998 (1967) power tubes with RCA grey glass VT-231 (1942) drivers.  I spent 2 times the price of the Woo WA22 on tubes, but it sounds damn good with Tidal HiFi.   Holographic with enormous space.

Pharmaboy, I bought my Woo about 3 years ago, and still really don't know what I was doing either.  But right away I grabbed a couple dozen NOS tubes because I saw they were rare.

I need to listen to the Woo more than I do.


----------



## attmci

Pharmaboy said:


> How do you know? Just by looking at it?
> 
> I just installed a 1959 Mullard Blackburn GZ34 fat base this morning. Looks similar except for larger/black base. Burning that in right now.
> 
> ...


Nope. Left had talked to himself before. LOL


----------



## leftside

BillinSF said:


> But you folks have me so jazzed for the WA22 I am plugging in for some jazz and funk during the game.  I run WE 422A rectifier (1959), through TS 5998 (1967) power tubes with RCA grey glass VT-231 (1942) drivers.  I spent 2 times the price of the Woo WA22 on tubes, but it sounds damn good with Tidal HiFi.   Holographic with enormous space.


Doesn't get much better than that Bill! Great glow with the WE 422A. 

Another Tidal fan - appears we have a few on here.


----------



## BillinSF

leftside said:


> Doesn't get much better than that Bill! Great glow with the WE 422A.



Thanks Leftside.  I do not do justice to our fellow Woo lovers.  I really gotta offload some of my stuff to folks who listen all the time.  Dammit, I'm single.  I don't even need headphones!  ))


----------



## BillinSF

Leftside, want to have your heart skip a beat?  I had an original Carver amp from the 80's.   Perfect condition and sold it 6 years ago to buy Sonos.  Out of my f'ing mind.  Didn't fully understand that I could have bridged all my digital music.


----------



## attmci (Mar 23, 2019)

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I use to have the bridge I , but here in Brazil, it's too much expensite to buy, prefer using my raspbery pi with roon, to my interfaces and then the ps audio



Joao,

The Mconnect Player can play/send the music stored on my Synology (through bridge II) to DirectStream. By pass the PC helps to reduce the noise level.

Sometimes you can get parts cheap here: https://forum.psaudio.com/c/marketplace

I do use USB for DSD.


----------



## Pharmaboy

BillinSF said:


> Leftside, want to have your heart skip a beat?  I had an original Carver amp from the 80's.   Perfect condition and sold it 6 years ago to buy Sonos.  Out of my f'ing mind.  Didn't fully understand that I could have bridged all my digital music.



Now, that's interesting. Which amp? I still have a cube I bought ~'85. Also a Carver tuner. Both need some TLC by a qualified tech, but after that, good to go. 

(so much stuff like that lying around here...it's a scandal)


----------



## BillinSF

Pharmaboy said:


> Now, that's interesting. Which amp? I still have a cube I bought ~'85. Also a Carver tuner. Both need some TLC by a qualified tech, but after that, good to go.


I wish I could tell you the model Carver.  It had two white windows with meters.  But it was the big-name amp killer.  I have been looking to find one on eBay - no luck.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> Joao,
> 
> The Mconnect Player can play/send the music stored on my Synology (through bridge II) to DirectStream. By pass the PC helps to reduce the noise level.
> 
> ...


Hey, attmci. The raspberry with the interfaces makes a good deal , i think it beats the bridge ii. I prefer them, beacuse the bridge is a not universal product. Here use the i2s and coaxial, that has no noise. And it works on any dacs. So if one day i change my dac, i can keep running i2s out or coaxil via network.

The cost to bring one here is huge. The customs have a 60% tax fee on the shipping price. And the resale here for a dac for this level is not easy

But I appreciate your advice !!!

Best regards

Joao

Obs: a get a ps audio mki and upgrades to the dsd dac.


----------



## attmci (Mar 24, 2019)

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Hey, attmci. The raspberry with the interfaces makes a good deal , i think it beats the bridge ii. I prefer them, beacuse the bridge is a not universal product. Here use the i2s and coaxial, that has no noise. And it works on any dacs. So if one day i change my dac, i can keep running i2s out or coaxil via network.
> 
> The cost to bring one here is huge. The customs have a 60% tax fee on the shipping price. And the resale here for a dac for this level is not easy
> 
> ...



Joao,

I was amazed at the price of those small i2s adapter: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Audio-Module-interface-Raspberry/dp/B00ZEWD5VK

Are you using that?

I agree $899 is an insane price for a Bridge II card.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/perfectwave-bridge/

To the others,


The Bridge II is a PS engineered options board that easily slides into the back of any PerfectWave DAC, including DirectStream and instantly transforms the DAC into a state-of-the-art network media server. You can then use any number of handheld touch screens like an iPhone, iPad, iPod or Android device to choose and play all of your music stored anywhere in your home or even over the internet.

The PerfectWave Bridge II makes high-end fun again without any performance compromise whatsoever and removes the need for the DAC to be connected to a computer allowing music lovers the world over to enjoy their digital audio collections with uncompromised performance at the touch of a finger.

Under the hood of the Bridge is a powerful high-resolution true asynchronous parallel approach based on 32-bit architecture with the core processor running at 500mHz and 256mB of high-speed DDR memory.

*High resolution audio up to 192kHz 32 bits*
The data, which can be up to 192kHz 32 bits, is clocked into a custom Complex Programmable Logic Device that organizes each of the 32-bit frames into the requisite I2S format. That I2S data is then clocked out with extremely low jitter fixed frequency asynchronous clocks and into the PWD through high-speed buffers isolated by a separate power supply.

The net result of this sophisticated asynchronous approach is a high-end, high-resolution network media player that does not care what the quality of the digital audio stream is over the network. What you get is simply breathtaking in its presentation heard through your system.

The music can be sent wirelessly or with a network cable and the sound coming out of the PerfectWave DAC is untouched by the transmission method. You never have to worry about setting sample rates, bit depth or any computer-like requirements. Simply touch play and enjoy.

*Network Audio is the future*
Network audio is the future and the PS Connected audio system places you at the forefront of technology in the high-end.

We understand that many of these technical terms and concepts may be a bit bewildering so here’s the bottom line: the PerfectWave Bridge simply, easily and without regard to how it receives the music you want to hear, plays everything in your collection perfectly and gets you closer to the music than you may have thought possible


----------



## Pharmaboy

attmci said:


> Joao,
> 
> I was amazed at the price of those small i2s adapter: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Audio-Module-interface-Raspberry/dp/B00ZEWD5VK
> 
> ...



This "bridge" stuff confuses me (a lot). Just looked at the link for the Raspberry thingie. It looks like a tiny DAC. So how/why connect this to a DAC in one's system...? 

(audio networking is one area where my ignorance remains at 1980s level)


----------



## attmci (Mar 24, 2019)

Pharmaboy said:


> This "bridge" stuff confuses me (a lot). Just looked at the link for the Raspberry thingie. It looks like a tiny DAC. So how/why connect this to a DAC in one's system...?
> 
> (audio networking is one area where my ignorance remains at 1980s level)


Just modified the previous post.  

There are other similar products on the market.


----------



## Pharmaboy

attmci said:


> Just modified the previous post.
> 
> There are other similar products on the market.



Again, forgive my ignorance. But since I have a DAC I'm happy with (accepting coax, USB, and toslink--I use strictly coax); and that DAC is not a PS Audio PerfectWave...where does the Raspberry thingie come in? Between computer and DAC? Is that the same as a network/streaming component (there are dozens advertised & talked about all over).


----------



## attmci

Pharmaboy said:


> Again, forgive my ignorance. But since I have a DAC I'm happy with (accepting coax, USB, and toslink--I use strictly coax); and that DAC is not a PS Audio PerfectWave...where does the Raspberry thingie come in? Between computer and DAC? Is that the same as a network/streaming component (there are dozens advertised & talked about all over).


Joao is here.

He can show you some pictures of his: Digital: Raspberry w/ Volumio/DietPI > SOtM dx-usb-hd 2224/Singxer SU-1 > I2S-supported Dac


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> Joao,
> 
> I was amazed at the price of those small i2s adapter: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Audio-Module-interface-Raspberry/dp/B00ZEWD5VK
> 
> ...


I use the Singxer SU-1 interface. 


Pharmaboy said:


> Again, forgive my ignorance. But since I have a DAC I'm happy with (accepting coax, USB, and toslink--I use strictly coax); and that DAC is not a PS Audio PerfectWave...where does the Raspberry thingie come in? Between computer and DAC? Is that the same as a network/streaming component (there are dozens advertised & talked about all over).


Here I dont use a pc to feed the digital signal, my pc is far from the headphone system, so the raspberry became a tiny pc just to recieve the digital signal and go to the pc. Got it ? It became a endpoint. Like a smart tv on spotify


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> Joao is here.
> 
> He can show you some pictures of his: Digital: Raspberry w/ Volumio/DietPI > SOtM dx-usb-hd 2224/Singxer SU-1 > I2S-supported Dac


Later i post pics


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> Joao,
> 
> I was amazed at the price of those small i2s adapter: https://www.amazon.com/SainSmart-Audio-Module-interface-Raspberry/dp/B00ZEWD5VK
> 
> ...


I think it has cheaper ones, like the raspberry pi has a mode to use his hdmi out as i2s i think. But the singxer worth the price , and the raspberry + singxer can be used on any dac


----------



## Pharmaboy

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> I use the Singxer SU-1 interface.
> 
> Here I dont use a pc to feed the digital signal, my pc is far from the headphone system, so the raspberry became a tiny pc just to recieve the digital signal and go to the pc. Got it ? It became a endpoint. Like a smart tv on spotify



I'm hopeless...can't understand this (but thanks for trying to explain). I actually have an amazing smart TV (big/bad OLED), but had no idea it could play Spotify...? WTH?

Seriously, I'm in the dark ages: cellphone is a flip model from a decade+ back w/no Internet or email; can't text; on and on. I know audio & video, but I don't get networking.


----------



## attmci

Pharmaboy said:


> I'm hopeless...can't understand this (but thanks for trying to explain). I actually have an amazing smart TV (big/bad OLED), but had no idea it could play Spotify...? WTH?
> 
> Seriously, I'm in the dark ages: cellphone is a flip model from a decade+ back w/no Internet or email; can't text; on and on. I know audio & video, but I don't get networking.



Seriously, my friend, you don't need these. Just enjoy the music.

Those are just for convenience if your music set up is not close to your PC. The Bridge II is also a network to I2S card can only be used on a DSD or DSDJr.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Pharmaboy said:


> I'm hopeless...can't understand this (but thanks for trying to explain). I actually have an amazing smart TV (big/bad OLED), but had no idea it could play Spotify...? WTH?
> 
> Seriously, I'm in the dark ages: cellphone is a flip model from a decade+ back w/no Internet or email; can't text





Pharmaboy said:


> I'm hopeless...can't understand this (but thanks for trying to explain). I actually have an amazing smart TV (big/bad OLED), but had no idea it could play Spotify...? WTH?
> 
> Seriously, I'm in the dark ages: cellphone is a flip model from a decade+ back w/no Internet or email; can't text; on and on. I know audio & video, but I don't get networking.





attmci said:


> Joao is here.
> 
> He can show you some pictures of his: Digital: Raspberry w/ Volumio/DietPI > SOtM dx-usb-hd 2224/Singxer SU-1 > I2S-supported Dac



This is my raspberyPi with the DietPi operate system to run roon.

 
Then the usb goes from the Raspberry pi to my usb interface

 
And from the interface to my DirecStream DAC, see that is the coaxial cable.

 

So the signal its via Wifi to the raspberry pi, goes to the interface and then the dac. No pc. 

The raspberry pi has a roon operate system to allow connect the devices via network. So I can stream to my dac/interface without connect directly to my pc

See my roon printscreen
Since my sotm interface is connected to my raspberry pi he rrecognized it and make a connection with my server.

The point about using a raspberrypi is this, no need a pc on the system, it saves you money, space ( in my case, beacuse i run my rooncore on my desktop pc, that is far from the headphone system)


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

attmci said:


> Seriously, my friend, you don't need these. Just enjoy the music.
> 
> Those are just for convenience if your music set up is not close to your PC. The Bridge II is also a network to I2S card can only be used on a DSD or DSDJr.


attmci That's it !!!!!!! Dont know how to explain better than you do


----------



## moemoney

I have the perfect wave DirectStream DAC with Bridge 2 card, along with the Signature MicoRenbu SE, and to my ears the Rendu our  Performs the bridge in all areas, clearly  surpassing the bridge 2


----------



## Slerpy

Hey, guys.
Have been a fan of this thread for a while and have read every post.
Still trying to determine if the low 60hz hum via hp's is an expected outcome of the WA22 (1st gen), stock tubes.
Granted, the hum is very subtle.
Noise floor is affected, regardless.  
I'm coming from a dead silent WA7 fed by a dead silent Benchmark DAC3, which I adore.
Think I actually prefer the resolution and sparkle in the higher frequencies via WA7 (JAN's in PSU). 
Any suggestion is appreciated.


----------



## leftside

Slerpy said:


> Hey, guys.
> Have been a fan of this thread for a while and have read every post.
> Still trying to determine if the low 60hz hum via hp's is an expected outcome of the WA22 (1st gen), stock tubes.
> Granted, the hum is very subtle.
> ...


More powerful headphone amps can generate a little more noise sometimes with the more sensitive headphones.

What headphones do you have? I know my more sensitive Stellia are certainly more susceptible to noise than the less sensitive LCD-3 or LCD-4. Having said that, the Stellia has an absolutely dead silent black background with the WA22 with <most> tubes. I wasn't a fan of the stock tubes that came with the WA22. I'd see if you can borrow someone else's headphones, or try different tubes. A decent (don't need to go crazy...) power cable can also help and also an isolation device like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00006HPFH


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> More powerful headphone amps can generate a little more noise sometimes with the more sensitive headphones.
> 
> What headphones do you have? I know my more sensitive Stellia are certainly more susceptible to noise than the less sensitive LCD-3 or LCD-4. Having said that, the Stellia has an absolutely dead silent black background with the WA22 with <most> tubes. I wasn't a fan of the stock tubes that came with the WA22. I'd see if you can borrow someone else's headphones, or try different tubes. A decent (don't need to go crazy...) power cable can also help and also an isolation device like this:
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00006HPFH



Thanks, Leftside.
Utopia's and Aeon Flow Closed for HP.
Audioquest NRGX 3 prong for power cord.
I picked up the WA22 yesterday as a super clean floor model at local dealer.
I've contacted the dealer, and he was more than eager to order a fresh set of tubes from Woo for me to try.
Great to know that I should expect a silent background from this killer amp.
Loving the dynamics and timbre so far.
Any rec's on squeezing out cleaner, higher resolution?
Not really a warm and fuzzy kinda guy.


----------



## leftside

As you've just got it, I'd give the WA22 and the tubes a little more time to settle down. 

The better tubes will squeeze out more resolution. Quite a few mentioned on this thread and here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wa22-lets-roll-some-tubes-done-mod-burnning-in.451678/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-reference-6sn7-thread.117677/

I find the GEC tubes seem to extract the most from music sources, but they can be expensive. Enjoy the journey.


----------



## Slerpy

BillinSF said:


> I sent you a PM with an old head-fi posting that described the tonality of dozens of driver tubes.


Hey, BillinSF.
I was hoping you would share that posting with me as I am a proud new father of a baby WA22 that I brought home yesterday.


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> As you've just got it, I'd give the WA22 and the tubes a little more time to settle down.
> 
> The better tubes will squeeze out more resolution. Quite a few mentioned on this thread and here:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/
> ...


That's generous of you.
I know this is has the potential to be a long and winding road.


----------



## BillinSF

Slerpy said:


> Hey, BillinSF.
> I was hoping you would share that posting with me as I am a proud new father of a baby WA22 that I brought home yesterday.




I sent you a PM with the file attached.  Enjoy the Woo!!


----------



## leftside (Mar 30, 2019)

Tried mixing and matching some of the L63's. Not recommended I'm afraid, as it causes a small hum in the amp. I was hoping to run all the GEC tubes (GEC, MWT, Marconi and Osram) at the same time, but it's not to be. Makes for a nice photo though 







Best to stick to matching quads of the L63/6J5.


----------



## Slerpy

Any other WA22 hum after full warm up?
Not referring to sound via HP.
Outside of phones, somewhere on the amp.


----------



## leftside

Slerpy said:


> Any other WA22 hum after full warm up?
> Not referring to sound via HP.
> Outside of phones, somewhere on the amp.


It shouldn't hum. But sometimes they do.... There have been posts on here regarding changing the tubes, different power cords, different isolation transformers, lower vs higher sensitivity headphones.


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> It shouldn't hum. But sometimes they do.... There have been posts on here regarding changing the tubes, different power cords, different isolation transformers, lower vs higher sensitivity headphones.


The hum via Utopia's is constant from the moment amp is turned on.
Not audible via planar's for obvious reasons.
I'm hearing a different, independent hum outside of HP circuit, audible to naked ears only after amp has fully heated up.
I've yet to receive the replacement tubes from dealer.
Perhaps that will solve both symptoms. 
I appreciate the feedback.
I will not be modifying a new unit to address extraneous noise.


----------



## joe

Cleaned up a few posts. Let's be civil to each other, folks.


----------



## Slerpy

Couldn't help myself.
Ordered the WE 422A as recommended along with a pair of the Tung Sol 5998's.
Hope the marriage works.
Quickly became disenchanted with the timbre and resolution of upper frequencies with stock set up.


----------



## leftside

Slerpy said:


> Couldn't help myself.
> Ordered the WE 422A as recommended along with a pair of the Tung Sol 5998's.
> Hope the marriage works.
> Quickly became disenchanted with the timbre and resolution of upper frequencies with stock set up.


Go big or go home!  Seems to have been a few of those WE 422A around lately, but still not cheap. Let us know how it sounds with the Utopia and the 5998's. What drivers are you using? As the Utopia is quite sensitive, and the 5998's are higher powered tubes your only slight concern might be a bit of noise. Let the tubes warm up for a few minutes before you plug the headphones in.


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> Go big or go home!  Seems to have been a few of those WE 422A around lately, but still not cheap. Let us know how it sounds with the Utopia and the 5998's. What drivers are you using? As the Utopia is quite sensitive, and the 5998's are higher powered tubes your only slight concern might be a bit of noise. Let the tubes warm up for a few minutes before you plug the headphones in.





leftside said:


> Go big or go home!  Seems to have been a few of those WE 422A around lately, but still not cheap. Let us know how it sounds with the Utopia and the 5998's. What drivers are you using? As the Utopia is quite sensitive, and the 5998's are higher powered tubes your only slight concern might be a bit of noise. Let the tubes warm up for a few minutes before you plug the headphones in.



Using stock EH 6sn7's.  
Hadn't considered how sensitive the Utopia's are when purchasing the 5998's.

I haven't come across any discussions of gain staging on this thread.
Any thoughts?
Currently my volume setting runs around 0930 on the WA22 pot for Utopia's and 1030 for the Aeon Flow's .
I have the flexibility of attenuating the output from my DAC3 to use more of the pot range.
Not sure if I'm missing out on anything by sending a hot signal to the amp.


----------



## leftside

Slerpy said:


> Using stock EH 6sn7's.
> Hadn't considered how sensitive the Utopia's are when purchasing the 5998's.
> 
> I haven't come across any discussions of gain staging on this thread.
> ...


Should be fine  The 5998 are fine with my (even more sensitive) Stellia. I keep the volume at around the 1200 position on the WA22 and use a preamp for volume control. One of my favorite driver tubes (Mullard ECC35) might be a little too much gain with this combo though. 

Give them a try, and post a pic. With that nice rectifier and power tubes, you'll probably be looking at the driver tubes next. The 6SN7 threads on here do a good job of describing all the various tubes.


----------



## Slerpy (Apr 2, 2019)

leftside said:


> Should be fine  The 5998 are fine with my (even more sensitive) Stellia. I keep the volume at around the 1200 position on the WA22 and use a preamp for volume control. One of my favorite driver tubes (Mullard ECC35) might be a little too much gain with this combo though.
> 
> Give them a try, and post a pic. With that nice rectifier and power tubes, you'll probably be looking at the driver tubes next. The 6SN7 threads on here do a good job of describing all the various tubes.


How are you liking the combo with Stellia?
I can tell all ready that the Utopia and WA22 are going to have a long, adventurous, and passionate relationship that may require some periodic counseling.


----------



## leftside

Slerpy said:


> How are you liking the combo with Stellia?
> I can tell all ready that the Utopia and WA22 are going to have a long, adventurous, and passionate relationship that may require some periodic counseling.


It's a great match/combo. I sometimes get the cast-offs from guys who I know that work in the portable audio business, and these came up... I wanted high-sensitivity closed back for traveling, portable use and when my wife or I are on the couch and don't want to bother the other person.

It's made me go back and roll in all the tubes I've collected over the years. Seems to work great with most tube combos, although will pick up any tube noise. I also had the LCD-3, and these are much more tolerant to tube noise, but I found to really maximise those I'd need to use higher gain power and driver tubes which restricted the tube rolling options (which might have been a good thing...  ).


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> It's a great match/combo. I sometimes get the cast-offs from guys who I know that work in the portable audio business, and these came up... I wanted high-sensitivity closed back for traveling, portable use and when my wife or I are on the couch and don't want to bother the other person.
> 
> It's made me go back and roll in all the tubes I've collected over the years. Seems to work great with most tube combos, although will pick up any tube noise. I also had the LCD-3, and these are much more tolerant to tube noise, but I found to really maximise those I'd need to use higher gain power and driver tubes which restricted the tube rolling options (which might have been a good thing...  ).


Find a tube combo (driver, specifically) you like best for the Stellia?


----------



## leftside (Apr 4, 2019)

Slerpy said:


> Find a tube combo (driver, specifically) you like best for the Stellia?


There's almost an endless amount of 6SN7 tubes that will sound great. If you are looking for great tubes that will also give you an aesthetic match with the TS 5998 and WE421A (i.e. have a larger shape) then I recommend the 6N7G or ECC31. 6N7G/ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters would be required. If you don't like adapters, you could consider splurging on an ECC32, but they are expensive... I've also really been enjoying the L63/6J5, but again you'll need adapters for those. There's also the taller shape 6F8G which a lot of people really like, but again you'll need adapters...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...C33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter/192471062593.

Those would be the drivers I'd pick, but I'm sure you will find there are many out there who will have a different opinion. There's only one way to know for sure


----------



## Pharmaboy

leftside said:


> Should be fine  The 5998 are fine with my (even more sensitive) Stellia. I keep the volume at around the 1200 position on the WA22 and use a preamp for volume control. One of my favorite driver tubes (Mullard ECC35) might be a little too much gain with this combo though.
> 
> Give them a try, and post a pic. With that nice rectifier and power tubes, you'll probably be looking at the driver tubes next. The 6SN7 threads on here do a good job of describing all the various tubes.



I'm running a DAC (Audio GD NOS 19) that outputs 2.5v (non-modifiable). That's 25% higher than many DACs & has caused me issues w/other amps/preamps. My WA22 isn't one of them, thankfully. I use a straight NOS tube set (no stock tubes), w/alternates of the power tubes & rectifier to mix in as I feel the urge. Most of my headphones--from 300 ohm HPs like Eikon & HD650 to medium sensitivity planars (HEX v2, Empyrean, LCD-2.1)--are in the 9:30-10:30 range on the Woo, which IMO is acceptable.

Haven't tried my biggest power hog, the ZMF Ori, yet, but eventually will. Wouldn't be surprised if that takes it up to 12:00 or higher.


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> There's almost an endless amount of 6SN7 tubes that will sound great. If you are looking for great tubes that will also give you an aesthetic match with the TS 5998 and WE421A (i.e. have a larger shape) then I recommend the 6N7G or ECC31. 6N7G/ECC31 to 6SN7 adapters would be required. If you don't like adapters, you could consider splurging on an ECC32, but they are expensive... I've also really been enjoying the L63/6J5, but again you'll need adapters for those. There's also the taller shape 6F8G which a lot of people really like, but again you'll need adapters...
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-Gold-p...C33-ECC32-tube-converter-adapter/192471062593.
> 
> Those would be the drivers I'd pick, but I'm sure you will find there are many out there who will have a different opinion. There's only one way to know for sure



Been listening to the WE 422a and 5998's with stock EH drivers.
Getting the treble extension and sparkle  I desire plus overall 3D staging via Utopia's.
The 60 hz hum in signal chain is louder though.
Wondering if the larger 5998's are contributing to that.
Also concerned about rolling a higher gain driver like ecc32 contributing more noise.
If I could keep current SQ with a silent background, WA22 would be my forever amp.
...until the next one.


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> Give the 6BL7's a try  A quad + adapter shouldn't cost you more than $100.


Do you recommend the 6BL7's only as a quad?


----------



## leftside (Apr 8, 2019)

Slerpy said:


> Do you recommend the 6BL7's only as a quad?


For the WA22, yes. They pack a punch like the 5998's, so if you are already having "hum problems" perhaps lower gain power tubes might be the first thing to try. Finding 4 6BL7's these days that are matching can also be tricky, but I should have some spare if you decide to go that route.

You should be able to fix that hum with your WA22. I think I mentioned a few ideas previously such as an isolation transformer, etc. It's all trial and error with tubes I'm afraid - especially with sensitive headphones like the Utopia and Stellia.


----------



## Slerpy

leftside said:


> For the WA22, yes. They pack a punch like the 5998's, so if you are already having "hum problems" perhaps lower gain power tubes might be the first thing to try. Finding 4 6BL7's these days that are matching can also be tricky, but I should have some spare if you decide to go that route.
> 
> You should be able to fix that hum with your WA22. I think I mentioned a few ideas previously such as an isolation transformer, etc. It's all trial and error with tubes I'm afraid - especially with sensitive headphones like the Utopia and Stellia.


Isolated the hum to EH drivers.
Swapped those out for Early Russian 6sn7's and achieved silent background.
Rolled TS 5998's back in for stock RCA's and got hum back.
Currently loving tone and timbre with WE 422a, TS 5998's, and Early Russian's.
Got treble and bass extension, midrange clarity, and just enough roll-off across the frequencies to remind myself why the pursuit of tubes are worthwhile.
Not sure what else to ask for from this powerful amp other than the hum.
I have it isolated to the 5998's at this point.
Have you had silent 5998's?
Worthwhile to try another pair?
Move on?


----------



## leftside

Slerpy said:


> Isolated the hum to EH drivers.
> Swapped those out for Early Russian 6sn7's and achieved silent background.
> Rolled TS 5998's back in for stock RCA's and got hum back.
> Currently loving tone and timbre with WE 422a, TS 5998's, and Early Russian's.
> ...


I have a few pair of 5998's and they are all silent. Some of them took an hour or two before they settled down.


----------



## davehg

I scored a batch of 6SN7 tubes at a local PC recycle place - 6 Westinghouse GTBs, 4 Sylvania W/WGT/GTB, 2 Raytheon GTB, one RCA GTB, and a GE 6080. 12 tubes for $10 total! All mint.

Listening to the Westinghouse tubes now. Good bass, forward and airy on top.


----------



## davehg

very quiet, these Westinghouse tubes. Dry but airy!


----------



## Roasty (Jun 4, 2019)

Badas said:


> My system. Woo WA22, Violectric V281, Auralic Vega DAC (huge improvement) and I use AudiQuest NightHawks and the Audeze LCD-3C headphones. I don't use vinyl on HP's. I can't get past the crackling sound.
> 
> That's all for now. Peace.
> 
> Dono.



Sorry for quoting a 3 yr old post..

Badas.. i recently auditioned the WA22 paired with an LCD4 and it was a nice listening experience. However, the guy at the shop was recommending the (slightly cheaper) Violectric 281 over the Woo Audio 22.

I then tied the Violectric 281, but felt it was a more forward presentation, the soundstage was a bit smaller and the highs were a bit harsher. Overall, the WA22 was a more pleasant listening experience.

Do you have the same impressions? Which of these two amps do you prefer?

I'm actually torn between the WA22 and a Headamp GSX-MK2, but unfortunately i've no chance to demo the GSX... so am trying to read up on what other people who own these amps say about them.


----------



## Pharmaboy

Roasty said:


> Sorry for quoting a 3 yr old post..
> 
> Badas.. i recently auditioned the WA22 paired with an LCD4 and it was a nice listening experience. However, the guy at the shop was recommending the (slightly cheaper) Violectric 281 over the Woo Audio 22.
> 
> ...



I own the WA22 (currently F.S. here w/all NOS tubes mentioned) & the V281. These are very different, but equally good amps IMO.

The V281 is powerful. It sounds very good on all the headphones I've tried with it. I don't hear harshness. Instead I hear effortless, strong dynamics (top to bottom); deep, impactful bass; large soundstage for a SS device; slight warmth, not tiresome or spitty. I've heard several Headamp products--excellent, refined sound, but more neutral, detailed, w/higher apparent resolution than the V281. To me that's risky...all that resolution can become brightness w/less than ideal matching of DAC & headphone.

The WA22 sounds totally different because of the tubes. It does things no SS amp can manage:

Sound that changes in many ways depending on the specific tubes used. People say the WA22's stock tubes aren't very good. I have no idea if that's true--I never used them. I have a complete/alternate set of NOS tubes (plus another alternate set of power tubes) and get excellent sound with those tubes.
BIG midrange, layered, dense, complex.
That typical 3-D quality to notes that many tube amps have. Notes seem more distinct, textured, solid, and real.
Instrumental color & timbre are complex & very realistic. Music sounds more like it does IRL
Soundstaging is big & palpable (like many tube amps).
Some people say this is a warm amp. It is slightly warm, but I can't focus on that. Warmth is intertwined w/other good qualities
I wouldn't want to choose between the V281 & a tube amp. I want to have both (I do have another tube amp, an OTL).


----------



## Roasty

Pharmaboy said:


> I own the WA22 (currently F.S. here w/all NOS tubes mentioned) & the V281. These are very different, but equally good amps IMO.
> 
> The V281 is powerful. It sounds very good on all the headphones I've tried with it. I don't hear harshness. Instead I hear effortless, strong dynamics (top to bottom); deep, impactful bass; large soundstage for a SS device; slight warmth, not tiresome or spitty. I've heard several Headamp products--excellent, refined sound, but more neutral, detailed, w/higher apparent resolution than the V281. To me that's risky...all that resolution can become brightness w/less than ideal matching of DAC & headphone.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the reply and the insight into the Wa22. It sounds like you really enjoy the Wa22!

I'm quite close to pulling the trigger...


----------



## Pharmaboy

Roasty said:


> Thank you for the reply and the insight into the Wa22. It sounds like you really enjoy the Wa22!
> 
> I'm quite close to pulling the trigger...



I do enjoy it...it's an excellent amp. But for various reasons, I just put it up F.S. here.


----------



## davehg (Jun 6, 2019)

I’ve got a a WA5 which is the bees knees but I’ve kept the WA22 for several reasons:


As a balanced design, it compliments my balanced source gear very nicely.
Its performance with various NOS tubes is great and makes tube rolling fun. You don’t have to spend a small fortune like on the WA5 to experiment.
Mine has upgraded Jupiter copper caps which adds some additional speed and slam without removing the WA22’s inherent musical tone.
A used WA22 is still a great bargain.
I’ve not enjoyed the stock tubes, but have currently a Brimar Rectifier, Mullard 6080s, and Sylvania, RCA black tops, and Westinghouse 6SN7s, which represent less than $200 in tubes and produce a nice sound.

The V281 has interested me but not enough to part with the WA22. Would rather put the money in improving my sources.


----------



## daverich4

Roasty said:


> Sorry for quoting a 3 yr old post..
> 
> Badas.. i recently auditioned the WA22 paired with an LCD4 and it was a nice listening experience. However, the guy at the shop was recommending the (slightly cheaper) Violectric 281 over the Woo Audio 22.
> 
> ...



I used the WA22 for many years (still have it in fact) but after hearing my LCD 3’s with a Headamp GSX-MK2 at a local show I ended up buying one. It seems to control the music in a way the WA22 doesn’t, has deeper bass and a dead silent background. All of the tubes for my WA22 are NOS and it takes 15-20 minutes for everything to warm up and settle in. Plus, once it’s on it always feels like I should use it for a while. I’m not against tubes, my stereo is all Audio Research but I use it in a different way from my headphone rig. It’s in a location where it never gets used for background music and I usually set aside time to listen to it. But sometimes I just want to kill 20-30 minutes listening to headphones and I don’t find tubes very conducive to that. By the way, the Headamp GSX-MK2 is superb with the Focal Clear’s as well.


----------



## Roasty

Thank you, everyone, for chiming in. 

Today I pulled the trigger on a Benchmark Dac 3. I also managed to audition some cayin and auris tube amps as well as the focal utopia and Meze Empyreans. 

I will probably be pulling the trigger on the Wa22 sometime soon. 

The Meze Empyreans were simply out of this world. Makes my current cans sound terrible lol...


----------



## Pharmaboy

Roasty said:


> Thank you, everyone, for chiming in.
> 
> Today I pulled the trigger on a Benchmark Dac 3. I also managed to audition some cayin and auris tube amps as well as the focal utopia and Meze Empyreans.
> 
> ...



I also have the Empyrean and have heard it multiple times on the WA22, as well at the OTL, WA3. Very fine sound from either unit--but even larger, more layered & nuanced on WA22. 

The Empyrean sounds at least very good on most SS amps I've heard it on, but it steps up to a new level w/a good tube amp...a lot of midrange information there. 

Cost aside (Empyrean is the most expensive HP I own...got it gently used), the Empyrean doesn't shame other headphones in my system (ie, ZMF Eikon, HEX v2, pre-fazor LCD-2.1, J-Mod/Jupiter Audio Research modded HD650). Each headphone brings something different & unique to the table. I find comparing the Empyrean vs HEX v2 especially interesting. No winners/no losers...


----------



## abvolt

Has anyone tried the 1635 power tubes in their wa22 ? on Woo's tube compatibility chart it calls for a loctal adapter, from pics doesn't look like they need that adapter thanks..


----------



## davehg

I have the HD650, LCD3f, and Focal Clear. They all partner nicely with the WA22 but the Clear and HD650 really shine. The LCD3 seems very tube sensitive, which is not so much the case on the more powerful WA5, where they sound glorious.


----------



## Matro5

davehg said:


> I have the HD650, LCD3f, and Focal Clear. They all partner nicely with the WA22 but the Clear and HD650 really shine. The LCD3 seems very tube sensitive, which is not so much the case on the more powerful WA5, where they sound glorious.



Thanks for this. I’ve got the Clear and Hd6xx so this is great info. 

One question for the group: My use case would call for the Wa22 to see a lot of use as a preamp feeding Dynaudio Focus 160s with Hypex Nc500 monoblocks. Is there a good consensus about how the wa22 works as a preamp? Is it on par with its headphone performance?


----------



## abvolt

Works great use my wa22 for a preamp all the time sounds real nice..


----------



## flea22

Been thinking about buying a new wa22, would the preamp work going to a unbalanced amplifier? (peachtreenova150). I know i would need a xlr to rca cable, and if it did work the signal would be unbalanced.


----------



## abvolt

It will work fine there's a switch on the back of the amp for balanced & unbalanced. Mine is in balanced because I use a balanced dac, you'll love the wa22 this amp has huge tube rolling possibilities and sounds really good..


----------



## Roasty

hi all!

am very excited. my WA22 is on its way! can't wait till it arrives.
i've only ever had a little dot mk2 and a schiit valhalla for tube amps. i hope this will be a pleasant upgrade.
will be listening from an oppo 105d/NAS to a benchmark dac 3.
and hd650, hd660s, lcd2 and focal utopias for headphones. possibly adding on an empyrean in the future.
have never tried tube rolling before.. will probably stick with the stock tubes for as long as i can.


----------



## abvolt

congrats and yes it will be an upgrade you'll notice..


----------



## Slerpy

Roasty said:


> Thank you, everyone, for chiming in.
> 
> Today I pulled the trigger on a Benchmark Dac 3. I also managed to audition some cayin and auris tube amps as well as the focal utopia and Meze Empyreans.
> 
> ...



Congratulations.
I also run the DAC3 balanced to the WA22.
It's a dream combo and I have currently suspended all search for desktop gear.
Completely satisfied with the combo driving my dynamic HP's.
However, I will say that my PM's sound outstanding straight from the HPA2 (seems to be the consensus that PM's are better with transistors).
Enjoy.


----------



## Badas (Jun 15, 2019)

Roasty said:


> Sorry for quoting a 3 yr old post..
> 
> Badas.. i recently auditioned the WA22 paired with an LCD4 and it was a nice listening experience. However, the guy at the shop was recommending the (slightly cheaper) Violectric 281 over the Woo Audio 22.
> 
> ...



Sorry it has taken a while. Life is busy.

I still own both amps and use both regularly. I won’t go into hyper detail. If I am listening for hours I go for the WA22, if I listen for up to 2 hours I go V281.
Which amp do I prefer? That’s hard. I have to just give it to WA22 (my WA22 has improved in the last 18 months), however I don’t crave WA22 when listening to the V281. It is that close. I do wish the V281 bass could be transferred to the WA22. That bass is addictive.

When you listened to V281 did you use balanced? V281 is best in balanced by a long shot. I sometimes test listen to some HP’s on the V281 on single end and hate how narrow they sound.
In balanced mode V281 is using 4 amps to drive the HP. Left +, Left -, Right + and Right -. A push pull configuration like a tube amp.


----------



## Pharmaboy

I have a WA22 (F.S. here). Also a V281 (that's staying). 

I only listen to the V281 balanced. "Narrow" is not a word to describe what I hear. In fact, the V281 has just about the best soundstaging I've heard from any SS amp (I have 5 here, have heard others elsewhere).


----------



## Roasty

Badas said:


> Sorry it has taken a while. Life is busy.
> 
> I still own both amps and use both regularly. I won’t go into hyper detail. If I am listening for hours I go for the WA22, if I listen for up to 2 hours I go V281.
> Which amp do I prefer? That’s hard. I have to just give it to WA22 (my WA22 has improved in the last 18 months), however I don’t crave WA22 when listening to the V281. It is that close. I do wish the V281 bass could be transferred to the WA22. That bass is addictive.
> ...



Thanks for getting back to me! I ended up ordering the wa22 and it should be with me by tomorrow night! Can't wait!

Yep the Violectric was on balanced mode.

I would be willing to give the Violectric 281 another try in the future should I be looking for another solid state. Really wish there was a gsx mk2 nearby which I could try out.

I purchased an Empyrean the other day; paid the deposit, but unfortunately it will be another month or so for the shop to get restocked. Am looking forward to pairing this with the WA22. 

Also, my Benchmark Dac 3 B has been delayed even further due to production delays from Benchmark. The shop is suggesting an alternative amp and has pointed me towards the Matrix Audio Sabre Pro. I'm try to read up more on the MQA version of the sabre Pro (in contrast, the benchmark does not support mqa unfolding). To be honest, I'm not sure I can hear the difference between mqa and non mqa files...


----------



## Badas

Pharmaboy said:


> I have a WA22 (F.S. here). Also a V281 (that's staying).
> 
> I only listen to the V281 balanced. "Narrow" is not a word to describe what I hear. In fact, the V281 has just about the best soundstaging I've heard from any SS amp (I have 5 here, have heard others elsewhere).



Agreed. My V281 is NEVER going anywhere. Lov the damn thing.

WA22 has really improved over the last 18 months. These damn tube amps need stacks of burn.
I'm not sure if it is the amp itself or the tubes but it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Roasty

Holy crap this thing weighs a tonne! 
Very awesomely packaged. Ordered some Woo Audio headphone stands too. My goodness the packaging of even those items were good. The stands have a nice heft, and just ooze luxury. I can't imagine using anything else now..


----------



## Pharmaboy

Yep, that's the WA22. 

I'll tell you something else that just oozes luxury, if you ever encounter them: Woo tube-socket adapters. They cost more than many other adapters, and before I saw them, I wondered why. Then mine arrived w/the gently-used WA22 & NOS tubes that required adapters--and it was instantly clear these are the Bentley of adapters. Check picture below:


----------



## abvolt

Roasty said:


> Holy crap this thing weighs a tonne!
> Very awesomely packaged. Ordered some Woo Audio headphone stands too. My goodness the packaging of even those items were good. The stands have a nice heft, and just ooze luxury. I can't imagine using anything else now..



Gorgeous in black I also agree with @Pharmaboy Woo's adapters are the best you can buy plus best looking, enjoy your new amp..


----------



## Badas

Pharmaboy said:


> Yep, that's the WA22.
> 
> I'll tell you something else that just oozes luxury, if you ever encounter them: Woo tube-socket adapters. They cost more than many other adapters, and before I saw them, I wondered why. Then mine arrived w/the gently-used WA22 & NOS tubes that required adapters--and it was instantly clear these are the Bentley of adapters. Check picture below:



Nah! The Glenn adapters are the best.

The wires go straight out the back. Away from any tubes and all you see from the front is the caps. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Gibson59

Well I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a WA22. Had my eye on it for a long time and I had chance to demo it today in a quiet environment with my HE1000se. The two have fantastic synergy! The soundstage, timber and overall euphoric sound is just fantastic. I really got lost in it. I also really like how it handled the treble with the HEKse. 

Two questions for you guys...

1) Does Gen 2 offer a significant sound upgrade over Gen 1? The Woo website says  “New for 2018 is improved sonic performance...” I’m wondering what the Gen 2 upgrades are if that improved sonic performance is appreciable. I won’t be using the preamp feature so if the sonic improvements are negligible I may save some money and buy a used Gen 1 unit. 

2) I use a Chord Qutest DAC which I really like and plan to keep using. Therefore I’ll be using RCAs/single ended only with the WA22. I know balanced is the preferred connection but is it a waste to use only single ended? I’d really like to keep using my Qutest.  I’m sure the answer is that it still sounds great, which I verified myself today. But just wondering from the bevy of owners here if single ended is a waste of a great amp. 

Btw I demoed the amp against the WA6 quite a bit today and walked away preferring the WA22 by a large margin. But the WA6 wasn’t bad by any means and at the price point I can see how some would be very happy with it. The only area where it had some brief appeal vs the WA22 was that the bass seemed to hit a little harder (not necessary reach deeper than WA22, but maybe a tad punchier) and the sound was a bit more forward overall. But the bass lacked texture and the overall sound was far less refined on the WA6, the soundstage, imaging and euphoria greatly lacked by comparison.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Gibson59 said:


> Well I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a WA22. Had my eye on it for a long time and I had chance to demo it today in a quiet environment with my HE1000se. The two have fantastic synergy! The soundstage, timber and overall euphoric sound is just fantastic. I really got lost in it. I also really like how it handled the treble with the HEKse.
> 
> Two questions for you guys...
> 
> ...


They will always say it's better the 2nd Gen, but have some cases like the WA6 SE 1st Gen sound better than 2nd. So I think just comparing side by side to make a opinion.

IMO there's no proboem using the SE , even more in the Chord world, only get balanced using a TT/TT2, and I heard opinions from this DAC (Qutest) and it's amazing of course'll be benefits from the balanced but it's not a super loss.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Guys, I have some tubes and I think I'm ok with this. But I want to know if there's any other good option I don't use yet.

I get:
Rec.
U52 GEC
USAF 596
Power
5998's
Quad 6BL7
Driver:
ECC35
6SL7GT


----------



## Pharmaboy

Gibson59 said:


> Well I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a WA22. Had my eye on it for a long time and I had chance to demo it today in a quiet environment with my HE1000se. The two have fantastic synergy! The soundstage, timber and overall euphoric sound is just fantastic. I really got lost in it. I also really like how it handled the treble with the HEKse.
> 
> Two questions for you guys...
> 
> ...



The WA22 I have F.S. here is gen 2 (purchased new 11/18), but I never used it as a preamp (though it is designed to do that), nor did I hear it compared to a Gen 1.

I used my w/single-ended input only, and all I can say is, if even better sound can come from balanced in, that's an amazing idea (since the sound was also very high level). 

Personally, I would be more concerned w/matching DAC to WA22 on sonic grounds--how much you like the single-ended DAC's basic sound & whether you think it will be a synergy w/the basic sound of the WA22. Of course, hard to say what the basic sound of the WA22, since everyone tube-rolls this amp, some more than others (I never even used stock tubes--never heard them; it was all NOS tubes).


----------



## davehg

Two questions for you guys...

1) Does Gen 2 offer a significant sound upgrade over Gen 1?

2) is it a waste to use only single ended? I’d really like to keep using my Qutest.



Hard to answer #1 without a side by side comparison but you can upgrade a Gen1 with better capacitors but at a $400-500 cost unless you are DIY. My guess is that these are iterative improvements rather than massive ones. Talk to Woo.

On #2, if the sound worked well for you, don’t sweat it. I’ve used both SE and balanced on several DACs and only one (Sony HapZ1ES) has a significant  difference on the Woo. The others (Lumin D2, Trivista) sounded great SE.

I found the HD650 headphones to benefit using a fully balanced system whereas the Audeze LCD 3 and Focal Clear are less of a difference. The amp is not wasted on SE, but I think you’ll find that using different NOS tubes can very much tailor the sound to be warm or forward.

I was neutral on the WA22 at first but currently, with various tube changes to dial in the sound, I’m a big fan. I have a WA5 that is currently mothballed while my family room is being remodeled and I am eager to again compare the two, as the 5 is completely single ended.[/QUOTE]


----------



## leftside

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Guys, I have some tubes and I think I'm ok with this. But I want to know if there's any other good option I don't use yet.
> 
> I get:
> Rec.
> ...


Pretty sweet tubes you have there. Not sure if you'll get too much improvement from other tubes, just different flavors. All depends upon whether you like tube rolling and collecting different tubes.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> Pretty sweet tubes you have there. Not sure if you'll get too much improvement from other tubes, just different flavors. All depends upon whether you like tube rolling and collecting different tubes.


Exactly what I want, different flavors. Any suggestion ?


----------



## leftside

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Exactly what I want, different flavors. Any suggestion ?


With my gear I like the Bendix 6080WB for a little extra bass, GEC 6AS7G for most reasons, but in particular great definition and clarity. Typically I'll use a 5998 as these are still reasonably priced, and there seems to be a lot around. GEC L63/6J5 as a great all around driver as per most GEC tubes seem to extract every fine detail from the music (adapter required). Mullard 6C5 mesh plate for a little extra warmth (same adapter as L63 to 6SN7). Fivre 6N7G seem to add an extra element of life and dynamics to the music. RCA 6SN7 late 40's black plate seem to add a little extra warmth. 

You'll get an almost endless list of other recommendations if you go through these pages, and also look at the other tube specific pages.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

leftside said:


> With my gear I like the Bendix 6080WB for a little extra bass, GEC 6AS7G for most reasons, but in particular great definition and clarity. Typically I'll use a 5998 as these are still reasonably priced, and there seems to be a lot around. GEC L63/6J5 as a great all around driver as per most GEC tubes seem to extract every fine detail from the music (adapter required). Mullard 6C5 mesh plate for a little extra warmth (same adapter as L63 to 6SN7). Fivre 6N7G seem to add an extra element of life and dynamics to the music. RCA 6SN7 late 40's black plate seem to add a little extra warmth.
> 
> You'll get an almost endless list of other recommendations if you go through these pages, and also look at the other tube specific pages.


Thank you !


----------



## Roasty

Did you guys listen to the WA22 with the stock tubes for a long time before you started tube rolling? 

I am nowhere near completing the 150 hr recommended burn in time for this amp. Best guess scenario I'm at 10 hrs or so... 

I've seen the tube upgrade offerings on the wooaudio website and am curious, whether I should just continue on with stock tubes, or I'll have a much better time listening with some other tubes.

I guess my options are.. 
1) Purchase new tubes for wa22
2) use the money for a WA6/WA6SE for the office
3) siphon the money towards a ZMF Verite...


----------



## Gibson59 (Jun 29, 2019)

Anyone using a Chord DAC with their WA22?

Also, anyone using their WA22 as a preamp into a solid state power amp for speakers? I’ve only read a few very brief mentions in this thread. 

If I purchase a WA22 I will be doing it with the intention of running it as a preamp into my Peachtree Nova 220se solid state integrated speaker amp in addition to headphones.


----------



## leftside

Roasty said:


> Did you guys listen to the WA22 with the stock tubes for a long time before you started tube rolling?
> 
> I am nowhere near completing the 150 hr recommended burn in time for this amp. Best guess scenario I'm at 10 hrs or so...
> 
> ...


I wasn't impressed with the stock tubes, but you might get more bang for your buck going for the Verite (depending upon what you current headphones are). Get the Verite first, save some more cash and go through these pages and others on Headfi for some good tube rolling options.


----------



## Gibson59

Well I pulled the trigger and purchased a 2nd gen WA22 and NOS tubes from an awesome member here. Glad to be part of the WA22 club! 

I still have my Wells Audio Milo so I’m really looking forward to comparing the two amps using my Chord Qutest and HEKse. 

I’m also gonna have the WA22 serve as a tube pre-amp to my solid state stereo speaker amp.  

He’s shipping it out to me tomorrow.  Impressions coming soon!


----------



## davehg (Jul 3, 2019)

I was tube rolling this weekend and trying to get rid of some high frequency glassiness I kept hearing. Swapped out the Westinghouse 6SN7s for some RCA black plates and lost a bit of bass slam but the glassiness is now gone.

Funny how the tubes are like tone controls on this amp.


----------



## Matro5

Gibson59 said:


> Well I pulled the trigger and purchased a 2nd gen WA22 and NOS tubes from an awesome member here. Glad to be part of the WA22 club!
> 
> I still have my Wells Audio Milo so I’m really looking forward to comparing the two amps using my Chord Qutest and HEKse.
> 
> ...



Please do! I’m interested in both it’s synergy with the Chord DAC and it’s ability as a preamp. Thanks!


----------



## Roasty

leftside said:


> I wasn't impressed with the stock tubes, but you might get more bang for your buck going for the Verite (depending upon what you current headphones are). Get the Verite first, save some more cash and go through these pages and others on Headfi for some good tube rolling options.



I'm using the focal utopia, and have an empyrean coming. But have read many a good thing about the zmf verite.


----------



## leftside

Roasty said:


> I'm using the focal utopia, and have an empyrean coming. But have read many a good thing about the zmf verite.


With such highend headphones you might well indeed want to look at upgrading the tubes next.


----------



## Roasty

I've never rolled tubes before. Can someone tell me what's the difference between the upgrade tubes on the wooaudio website which are priced quite high vs the cheaper listing on eBay?

Am considering pulling the trigger on the Chatham 5998 on the wooaudio website..


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> I've never rolled tubes before. Can someone tell me what's the difference between the upgrade tubes on the wooaudio website which are priced quite high vs the cheaper listing on eBay?
> 
> Am considering pulling the trigger on the Chatham 5998 on the wooaudio website..


Same thing if both tubes are NOS.


----------



## Roasty (Jul 5, 2019)

When I was using the stock utopia single ended cable, I really enjoyed the Wa22 utopia combo.

upon changing to grand line lavricables, the utopia sounds a little brighter, and the soundstage seems a wee bit smaller. I think this could be due to the mids and highs being brought to a more forward presentation. Everything sounds a lot clearer now, especially voices. There is a little loss of bass slam. The background noise and "blackness" is improved over the stock cable.

I actually quite like the lavricable and am hoping they will sound better after some burn in. Would some tube changes bring back the soundstage and bass slam?

I've read through all 50 pages of this thread. I have a general idea of the usual tubes ppl have recommended.

Brimar 5Z4GY
Mullard 6080
Tungsol/Chatham 5998
Ecc35
Rca 6sn7

Of the above the rca seem the easiest to acquire and also the cheapest. Question here would be given their relatively low price, would they do the other more expensive tubes justice?

I can't easily acquire tubes from where I'm at, so my only options are ebay, wooaudio, some online retailers. Unfortunately I also don't have much of the luxury of time, so I would like to get the "best sound in the shortest possible time".

I'm tempted to just take the easy way out, and to just pay the premium, and get the recommended tube options on the Wa22 webpage..

I'm curious why Western Electric tubes are so expensive?


----------



## Roasty

so I went ahead and ordered a few tubes.

Brimar 5Z4G
RCA 6SN7GT matched
Tung Sol 5998 matched

Am curious about the Sophia 274B princess. they have the aqua and non-aqua versions. are these any good as rectifiers? I've read some online reviews saying they're pretty good for their price.

pic of my amp for attention


----------



## leftside

RCA 6SN7 and 5998 should sound great with the Utopia. A bunch of on here also really like the ECC35, but I'm not sure if the 5998 + ECC35 will be too much gain for the sensitive Utopia. As long as the tubes are in really nice shape you should be fine - it's a good combo for my Stellia, but I slightly prefer a lower gain driver such as a regular 6SN7 or 6N7 (with 6N7/ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter) with those. Try it with your RCA 6SN7 and 5998 combo first.


----------



## Roasty

leftside said:


> RCA 6SN7 and 5998 should sound great with the Utopia. A bunch of on here also really like the ECC35, but I'm not sure if the 5998 + ECC35 will be too much gain for the sensitive Utopia. As long as the tubes are in really nice shape you should be fine - it's a good combo for my Stellia, but I slightly prefer a lower gain driver such as a regular 6SN7 or 6N7 (with 6N7/ECC31 to 6SN7 adapter) with those. Try it with your RCA 6SN7 and 5998 combo first.



Thanks man! Looking forward to the tubes.

If I get the Sophia 274b as well, am I supposed to go for the normal tube or the aqua version? 

My amp came with RCA 6080 tubes. I have an opportunity to get some Mullard 6080 tubes as well; are they any much better than the RCA ones? Or should I not bother and just use the Tung Sol 5998 tubes?


----------



## leftside

Not sure about the recfifiers I'm afraid. I prefer the Mullard 6080 to the RCA, but would stick with the 5998 for a while. The metal base power tubes do look nice though when paired up with a metal base rectifier and metal base driver.


----------



## flea22

Hey guys. I've read a few times that the wa22 is fussy with tubes when paired with the lcd 3's. If anyone here knows some good tubes to try for the lcd 3's please let me know.


----------



## leftside (Jul 7, 2019)

flea22 said:


> Hey guys. I've read a few times that the wa22 is fussy with tubes when paired with the lcd 3's. If anyone here knows some good tubes to try for the lcd 3's please let me know.


I always liked the higher gain tubes such as 5998 and ECC35/6SL7 when I had the harder to drive LCD3.


----------



## Gibson59

My WA22 and a bunch of NOS tubes comes tomorrow... I can't wait!!!

I have a bunch if rectifiers already, but i'm short on NOS driver and power tubes.  If anyone has some driver or power tubes they want to sell me at a fair price PM me.


----------



## flea22 (Jul 8, 2019)

leftside said:


> I always liked the higher gain tubes such as 5998 and ECC35/6SL7 when I had the harder to drive LCD3.


 
Thanks will go some 5998/ 421a's. Just took possession of a wa22 and loving it. Using a single ended dac (chord qutest) and it sounds great. Amp is built like a tank!


----------



## Gibson59

Wondering what you guys think of this matched pair that’s available on Ebay:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183858199089

Assuming these are good tubes for the WA22, what’s a fair price for me to offer/pay for these?


----------



## Gibson59

WA22 arrived today. Not having a bad evening with my HEKse and two amps


----------



## ahossam

I have been using WA8 for sometimes now, its my first all tubes amp design and I really loved the sound.

Now I was looking for a desktop amp, and am curious about WA22 2nd gen, but my local dealer don't have it so I can't do audition. How is WA22 compare to WA8 sound quality wise? is it way much better?


----------



## Gibson59

Just checking before I plug this PHILIPS 5R4GYS rectifier in... does it work with the WA22?

I can’t quite tell from the compatibility list. I see 5R4GY on the list but not 5R4GYS.


----------



## kartikey (Jul 10, 2019)

Hello people,

Long time lurker here and I have ordered my WA22 which is soon to arrive. Currently, I have tested WA2 with my Sennheiser 800S and found the TS 5998 to give an extra boost in the bass which I was surprised by. Now that I have a WA22 coming I have gone through multiple pages of this thread and the reference 6SN7 thread but not found an answer for driver tubes that will provide a natural bump in bass and better soundstage compared to the stock tubes that I will get with the WA22. Please correct me if driver tubes don't do that because I am totally new to this audiophile world.

Can someone please help me with that? I already spent a lot in buying the TS5998 so I don't want to spend a lot on the driver tubes if possible. For the rectifier, I will be using the stock one until I think I can spend more. Please also suggest if it's better to upgrade the rectifier tube instead of the driver tubes if I have a choice to spend on only one of them for starting out.

I have listened to the difference in stock WA2 power tube vs TS5998 to realize it makes a big difference for me so I don't really want to settle for the stock WA22 tubes if I can get more out of it.

EDIT: wrote the tube 6SN7 name wrong initially


----------



## abvolt

Yes that tube will work in your wa22 I have several they sound very nice @Gibson59..


----------



## Gibson59

abvolt said:


> Yes that tube will work in your wa22 I have several they sound very nice @Gibson59..



Thanks!  It does in fact sound fantastic 

One more question if you don't mind...  Think I should buy this matched pair?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/183858199089?ul_noapp=true


----------



## abvolt

Some good driver tubes to consider @kartikey any of the Mullard ecc32,33,35 very nice vt-99, vt-163, 6sl7, 6sc7 I wouldn't use the ecc35's with the 5998's for me it's a little much..enjoy


----------



## kartikey

Thank you for the advice @abvolt. But I want to understand what a little much means? Does it mean it causes any anomalies in sound?


----------



## abvolt (Jul 10, 2019)

Both the of the 5998's and the ecc35's are high in Mu gain using both at the same time for me it's like getting too much gain from my amp although some enjoy their music with extra gain I don't. No distortions of any kind just too high of gain.. Another high gain tube that sounds very good is a 6bl7gt a power tube.


----------



## thecrow

Gibson59 said:


> Wondering what you guys think of this matched pair that’s available on Ebay:
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/183858199089
> 
> Assuming these are good tubes for the WA22, what’s a fair price for me to offer/pay for these?


I use 6080 tube types on my woo wa2

I believe the tubes you are looking at are considerably over priced. 

On my wa2 i find the gec6as7g tubes to be the best when looking at detail and extension. I use these 85% of the time. Not cheap. A good pair will probably cost about $600 usd per pair. But if patient you might get lucky at times. I have

Then there is the we421a and tungsol/chatham 5998. Still quite good. One step down from the gec6as7g.  Maybe about $200-$250 per pair. Not grainy. 

I also have bendix 6080wb with graphic plates. A heavier/more dense sound. Again not grainy. Maybe about $250 a pair. Hard to find. 

Then there is ones underneath that have less detail can be warmer in sound that some prefer. These cheaper options though good can be a bit grainy at times. 

There are past contributors here, including badas (member) that has extensive experience in these later tubes i mentioned that he prefers. 

Personally I do prefer more open detailed sound and don’t mind upper end energy. And that is with my wa2 rather than a wa22. I have found with limited experience with the wa22 (demoed a few times) that the wa2 is a bit more laid back than the wa22. 

I hope that might help a little

One piece of advice i do have with tube rolling is quality (in the sound that you are after) is better than quantity of tubes that you might buy. But it is trial and error at times

All the best with it


----------



## kartikey

abvolt said:


> Both the of the 5998's and the ecc35's are high in Mu gain using both at the same time for me it's like getting too much gain from my amp although some enjoy their music with extra gain I don't. No distortions of any kind just too high of gain.. Another high gain tube that sounds very good is a 6bl7gt a power tube.



Yeah. Looks like I lack the knowledge of what gain is to understand what it'll do. Will go online and search a bit before asking more lol.


----------



## kartikey

I am trying to find a matched pair of driver tubes under $200 if possible. Has anyone considered or tried PSVane driver tubes?


----------



## flea22

What do you guys think is a better buy, 5998 ts from woo for $600, or a pair of 1975 421a we from ebay for $600? I'm leaning towards the 5998's from woo.


----------



## kartikey

flea22 said:


> What do you guys think is a better buy, 5998 ts from woo for $600, or a pair of 1975 421a we from ebay for $600? I'm leaning towards the 5998's from woo.



I bought 2 TS 5998s from ebay for ~345 recently. I don't understand why Woo charges almost 2x for any tubes I find elsewhere on the net. But, I guess you can rely on the fact that they have matched and tested to give you the best set of tubes for what you pay?


----------



## flea22

kartikey said:


> I bought 2 TS 5998s from ebay for ~345 recently. I don't understand why Woo charges almost 2x for any tubes I find elsewhere on the net. But, I guess you can rely on the fact that they have matched and tested to give you the best set of tubes for what you pay?


Thanks, Just found a matched pair of 5998's for $400. Will give the 421A we a miss. I read mixed reviews of the tubes.


----------



## thecrow

flea22 said:


> Thanks, Just found a matched pair of 5998's for $400. Will give the 421A we a miss. I read mixed reviews of the tubes.


Some say the we421a are supposed to be a bit better than the ts5998. 

I’ve only heard one pair of the we421a and i am happy to go along with that. That is compared to two pairs of ts5998 i have heard/owned.  So only a small sample size for me. Unfortunately the we 421a’s  were a bit noisy and i returned them. 

So if prices are the same i would lean to the we421a or even pay a little bit more of a premium (say 10-20%) as i would forever be wondering. But that’s me.


----------



## Roasty

I received the Brimar 5z4g Rectifier tube the other day. Compared to the stock rectifier tube: 

- the Brimar sounds very smooth. I'm not sure how to describe it, but is a very pleasant/pleasing effect. Female vocals sound very good with this tube. Very luscious. Overall, the music sounds like it's a little "thicker". 
- the bass has slightly more texture. Perhaps a tiny bit more oomph/slam.
- the highs are very well controlled, perhaps slightly rounded up top. Which is a good thing to me. 
- the sound stage to me is only very slightly larger.

For such a cheap tube, definitely worth a try. Not going to be a night and day difference from stock, but any small bit of improvement is still an improvement.

I have a Sophia 274b princess, and matched pairs of Mullard 6080 and TS5998 in the mail. 

I also have a pair of RCA 6SN7 GT tubes coming. Are there any other tubes (which are relatively easy to acquire) which are worth trying?


----------



## kartikey

Got my WA22 delivered today !!!


----------



## flea22

kartikey said:


> Got my WA22 delivered today !!!


congratulations! I hope you enjoy the amp. I am also a new owner of a wa22 and I'm loving it.


----------



## kartikey

flea22 said:


> congratulations! I hope you enjoy the amp. I am also a new owner of a wa22 and I'm loving it.


Yep! The only upgrade I see from this is buying new headphones and not a new amp lol. This sounds amazing even with stock tubes. I will be putting TS 5998s for a start though.


----------



## moemoney

kartikey said:


> Yep! The only upgrade I see from this is buying new headphones and not a new amp lol. This sounds amazing even with stock tubes. I will be putting TS 5998s for a start though.


You’ll be surprised even more after 150 hour break in the sound gets much better, you’ll notice After the first 25 hours.


----------



## kartikey

So I tried low and high impedance setting with my HD800S and noticed that low impedance brightens and loudens the sound but also narrows down the soundstage like crazy. While the high impedance is more laid back, wider sound stage and lesser volume at the same volume level. So weird.


----------



## Gibson59

Guys how much should I expect to spend on a good matches pair of TS 5998? 

I’m willing to spend some dough to get some. But most of the offerings I see on eBay are “best offer” and I don’t want to overspend. Anyone see any for sale that I should spring for? 

I already have some rectifier and power tube options that I’m enjoying. But I really wanna upgrade the driver tubes.


----------



## Roasty

Gibson59 said:


> Guys how much should I expect to spend on a good matches pair of TS 5998?
> 
> I’m willing to spend some dough to get some. But most of the offerings I see on eBay are “best offer” and I don’t want to overspend. Anyone see any for sale that I should spring for?
> 
> I already have some rectifier and power tube options that I’m enjoying. But I really wanna upgrade the driver tubes.



I searched on ebay but couldn't find something I liked. Ended up ordering a pair of TS5998 from Tubes Unlimited for 199bucks each.

They are an audible improvement over the stock tubes.


----------



## hackstu (Jul 24, 2019)

Looking into buying a WA22, direct from Woo as I live in the UK, and I haven't seen them for sale in Europe used, apart from once and just wondering how will it pair with a sennheisier HD820?? I have a RSA raptor, and there is lots of background hiss can I expect that with a WA22 in balanced mode??


----------



## flea22 (Jul 28, 2019)

Hey guys. I received a match pair of 5998s today from tubes unlimited to find one tube is a lot smaller then the other one and one has a clear top. Should this be cause for concern?


----------



## Roasty

flea22 said:


> Hey guys. I received a match pair of 5998s today from tubes unlimited to find one tube is a lot smaller then the over one and one has a clear top. Should this be cause for concern?



I don't know if it would be an issue sound wise but goodness, mismatched in morphology would irritate the hell out of the OCD me. 

The 5998 tubes I got from them were similar physically. Perhaps email them and see what they say?


----------



## flea22

Roasty said:


> I don't know if it would be an issue sound wise but goodness, mismatched in morphology would irritate the hell out of the OCD me.
> 
> The 5998 tubes I got from them were similar physically. Perhaps email them and see what they say?


Yeah its driving my ocd a little mad, they still sound good. I don't know too much about tubes but when I bought them I was told tubes needed to be matched by electric testing more then date matching.


----------



## Roasty

for power tubes.. I am quite liking the Mullard 6080 over the TS5998 and WE421A.

is it just me? because I've read so many posts on the awesomeness of the WE421A..


----------



## m17xr2b

It's not just you, I prefer the Sylvania 6080GB, GEC 6AS7G and 6080, Bendix 6080 over the WE421A/5998.


----------



## Roasty

I just received a pair of Tung Sol 6SN7 GTB tall tubes.

I had some low level echoey hum in my right channel when pairing the WE421A with RCA 6SN7 GT, but the hum has since disappeared with the TS 6SN7. 

So far.. The TS driver tubes sound like an improvement over the RCA. Will listen a bit more before coming to a definite conclusion.


----------



## Dan Lee

Hello fellow WA22 owners.  I just got my unit today with the intention of running it as a preamp for my KGSSHV Carbon and Stax SR-009S headphones.  This works very well and sounds quite nice adding a nice tone to the analytical 009.  

I have two questions I hope you all can answer for me.

1.  Is there a way to bypass the WA22 without unplugging interconnects so I can alternate between using the Carbon amp in solid state when I prefer its more analytical nature and then switch back to tube preamp when I want tube sound?

2.  Is there a noticeable change in sound as the WA22 goes through the break-in process?  I know tubes tend to increase soundstage and holographics, but it almost seems to have closed them in a little and I am wondering if that may change with break-in time.

Thanks for your help guys


----------



## moemoney

Dan Lee said:


> Hello fellow WA22 owners.  I just got my unit today with the intention of running it as a preamp for my KGSSHV Carbon and Stax SR-009S headphones.  This works very well and sounds quite nice adding a nice tone to the analytical 009.
> 
> I have two questions I hope you all can answer for me.
> 
> ...


To answer question number two definitely there is a  big-time Improvement after break in.


----------



## hackstu

Hi all,

I am now a happy owner of a Wa22, But am experiencing an external noise/ hum from the transformers. Will this go away in time? Would changing the valves/tubes help.


----------



## leftside

If you are looking for good adapters, you should get in touch with this guy: @Deyan. This picture shows the 6J5/L63/6P5/6C5 to 6SN7 adapters.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Finally happy with my setup. 

Utopia is on the way. 

Have a good night for all


----------



## Gibson59

Is it reasonable to expect a little bit of audible hum when listening to the the WA22? Mine is a 2nd gen and I use the RCA input since I have a Chord Qutest DAC. I’m using my Hifiman HE1000se. I was previously using only solid state amps so I’m wondering if this is just to be expected with any tube amp?  I absolutely love the sound I’m getting aside from the hum, which is really irritating me on an otherwise perfect amp for me in sound and looks. 

I just received my WA22 back from a warranty repair for this issue and while the hum is quieter than before I sent it in, I’m annoyed it’s still there.  I will say that dealing with Woo has been great and the process of getting my amp to them and back to me was painless and pretty quick. Their customer service seems great. I know I could simply just go back to them with my concern, but I figured I’d ask around here first.  

The hum is not loud enough that I can hear it over music playing, but in quiet passages I can slightly hear it and I feel like the background isn’t as black as it could be.  The hum gets louder as I increase the volume. For some reason the hum almost disappears when I use high gain, but the HEKse are low gain and I think the low gain setting just sounds better with them regardless.  I have a combination of the stock tubes Woo provided and plenty of high quality NOS tubes and the hum persists regardless of tube combos. I’ve also ruled out any grounding issues. 

I took my HEKse to a local hifi ship that has a WA22 on display for demos and I heard absolutely no hum whatsoever when listening to theirs. All I heard when increasing the volume on their demo WA22 was a bit of a hiss noise at very high volumes (higher than I would listen).  The fact that I heard no hum on their unit is really bugging me. If their demo WA22 is dead quiet shouldn’t mine be?

This is an expensive piece of equipment so I’m not willing to just accept the slight hum if it’s not common amongst other WA22 owners.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Gibson59 said:


> Is it reasonable to expect a little bit of audible hum when listening to the the WA22? Mine is a 2nd gen and I use the RCA input since I have a Chord Qutest DAC. I’m using my Hifiman HE1000se. I was previously using only solid state amps so I’m wondering if this is just to be expected with any tube amp?  I absolutely love the sound I’m getting aside from the hum, which is really irritating me on an otherwise perfect amp for me in sound and looks.
> 
> I just received my WA22 back from a warranty repair for this issue and while the hum is quieter than before I sent it in, I’m annoyed it’s still there.  I will say that dealing with Woo has been great and the process of getting my amp to them and back to me was painless and pretty quick. Their customer service seems great. I know I could simply just go back to them with my concern, but I figured I’d ask around here first.
> 
> ...


The hiss is totaly ok. The hum maybe is your tube.


----------



## Gibson59

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> The hiss is totaly ok. The hum maybe is your tube.



That’s the thing... on my WA22 at home there is no hiss, just hum. And I’ve tried every combination of tubes I have and the hum doesn’t really change. It’s the demo unit I tried that had a bit of hiss and no hum and at typical listening levels was dead quiet. That’s what I’m after and why I think there’s still something wrong with my unit.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Gibson59 said:


> That’s the thing... on my WA22 at home there is no hiss, just hum. And I’ve tried every combination of tubes I have and the hum doesn’t really change. It’s the demo unit I tried that had a bit of hiss and no hum and at typical listening levels was dead quiet. That’s what I’m after and why I think there’s still something wrong with my unit.


Here on every headphone the hiss got louder more I turn the volume up. Some times more present some time not. Depends on the headphone. But the hum I have on some tubes and I switch and got a dead quiet amp. Do you have ground too ?


----------



## Gibson59

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Here on every headphone the hiss got louder more I turn the volume up. Some times more present some time not. Depends on the headphone. But the hum I have on some tubes and I switch and got a dead quiet amp. Do you have ground too ?



Yep I ruled out a grounding issue... I also followed all of the other troubleshooting tips on Woo’s website to no avail. I’ve plugged it into a clean electrical socket on the other side of the house with no RCAs/other equipment and and a ground lift and I’m still getting the hum. I switched all the tubes and still get the hum. I’m so puzzled at this point.

Thanks for trying to help @Joao Paulo Martins


----------



## Roasty

Mine has a very faint hum, which is accentuated depending on what tubes I use. I find the hum louder with power tubes like ts5998 and the WE421A. It's very very faint with mullard 6089.
It's not really audible when music is on, or even during soft passages.


----------



## Roasty

Oh my gosh.. 

So I've been living with the hum from the Wa22 for so long.

Finally got rid of it by changing out the power cable (was using some DIY cable I ordered from a local audio enthusiast)! Ordered a length of Merlin Black Widow mains cable and the amp is dead black silent background now.

Bliss.


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Roasty said:


> Oh my gosh..
> 
> So I've been living with the hum from the Wa22 for so long.
> 
> ...


Cables... I used to get generic Monoprice cables. Much better than some out there. Today I use Pangea. Cheap and good cables


----------



## Dan Lee

Have any of you used a 5670 to 6SN7 adaptor to run WE2C51 or any 6N3 family tubes?  I've seen pics and know the adapters are out there, just dont know if its a viable option or not.  Thanks


----------



## UntilThen

Hi folks, first time here on this thread. Just pick up a used WA22 and it's super quiet with any tubes I've used so far. This amp sounds great with Verite and HD800. Who would have known.


----------



## UntilThen

It'll be a weekend of using Woo Audio WA22, Glenn OTL amp and ALO Audio Studio Six with ZMF Verite Open and HD800 headphones.

WA22 using GEC U52, Tung Sol 6F8G and Bendix 6080wb. Glenn OTL using Mulllard ECC33 and 6 x GE 6BX7gt.


----------



## UntilThen

The amps are so close to each other yet there's no interference and noise. Dead quiet when no music is on.

This is the setup. Studio Six has to be move to the bench for the time being.


----------



## UntilThen

Very early listening impressions. Both amps with those tubes are pretty amazing sounding with ZMF Verite Open. Fast, clear, nuanced, dynamic and engaging. I notice quite a lot of WA22 using dual 6BL7 or 6BX7 as power tubes. If you like 6BL7 tone, you should get a listen to 6 of them as power tubes in GOTL. It's as good as it gets. However the WA22 with these tubes are right up there in musicality. I have a hard time deciding which amp to use. One song each.


----------



## UntilThen

Roasty said:


> for power tubes.. I am quite liking the Mullard 6080 over the TS5998 and WE421A.
> 
> is it just me? because I've read so many posts on the awesomeness of the WE421A..



I'll try the Mullard 6080 in a sec.  I have almost all the different types of power tubes.


----------



## Thaddy

Decided to retire my WA2 and upgrade to the WA22 earlier this week.  I also ended up ordering a Sofia 274b rectifier.  Fortunately years and years of owning a WA2 has left me with a nice stock of 6AS7G/6080 and 6SN7 tubes to roll right into the WA22.  It will be interesting to compare against my GS-X Mk2, sourced by a Benchmark DAC3.


----------



## MIKELAP (Oct 16, 2019)

UntilThen said:


> Hi folks, first time here on this thread. Just pick up a used WA22 and it's super quiet with any tubes I've used so far. This amp sounds great with Verite and HD800. Who would have known.


Still have mine i use it with HD800S and Grado RS2E.  Tubes  are 5998 as powers along with 6SC7 and 6Z4GY as Rectifier


----------



## Roasty

Thaddy said:


> Decided to retire my WA2 and upgrade to the WA22 earlier this week.  I also ended up ordering a Sofia 274b rectifier.  Fortunately years and years of owning a WA2 has left me with a nice stock of 6AS7G/6080 and 6SN7 tubes to roll right into the WA22.  It will be interesting to compare against my GS-X Mk2, sourced by a Benchmark DAC3.



How's it going so far? 
If u like the Sophia 274b, u may like the emission labs 5u4g mesh. I find better soundstage and prat with the eml tube. Slightly brighter up top too.


----------



## Thaddy

Roasty said:


> How's it going so far?
> If u like the Sophia 274b, u may like the emission labs 5u4g mesh. I find better soundstage and prat with the eml tube. Slightly brighter up top too.


I actually haven't received the amp just yet.  I'm trading my WA2 in to receive a new WA22, and haven't yet sent the WA2 back to Woo Audio.  In the meantime I've been getting used to my brand new DAC3 B and GS-X Mk2, but I do miss having a tube amp and I'm excited to compare the WA22 to the GS-X Mk2.

I do have plans on eventually trying the EML 5U4G, but will probably try to pick up one or two NOS tubes first.  In my experience older tubes typically sound pretty darn good considering their price.


----------



## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> Still have mine i use it with HD800S and Grado RS2E.  Tubes  are 5998 as powers along with 6SC7 and 6Z4GY as Rectifier



Hey Mike, haven't heard from you in a long time. WA22 sounds great indeed after 1.5 weeks. As good as my other amps.


----------



## UntilThen (Oct 16, 2019)

Gibson59 said:


> That’s the thing... on my WA22 at home there is no hiss, just hum. And I’ve tried every combination of tubes I have and the hum doesn’t really change. It’s the demo unit I tried that had a bit of hiss and no hum and at typical listening levels was dead quiet. That’s what I’m after and why I think there’s still something wrong with my unit.



I must be lucky. My 'used' WA22 is totally hum free with any tubes I use, including this dual 6BX7 as power tubes for each channel. I've often been curious what WA22 owners hears with 4 x 6bx7 as compared to my GOTL running 6 x 6bx7. Well now I can find out for myself.

The WA22 SET amp with these tubes are as punchy and as dynamic as the GOTL with sextet 6bx7. WA22 slightly leaner and sharper but very good. GOTL running Mullard EL32 and 6 x 6bx7 has incredible punch and force and the OTL tube tone is just beautiful. Which do I like better? It's hard to say really. Both amps are incredible with Verite Open and HD800.


----------



## Dan Lee

Thaddy said:


> Decided to retire my WA2 and upgrade to the WA22 earlier this week.  I also ended up ordering a Sofia 274b rectifier.  Fortunately years and years of owning a WA2 has left me with a nice stock of 6AS7G/6080 and 6SN7 tubes to roll right into the WA22.  It will be interesting to compare against my GS-X Mk2, sourced by a Benchmark DAC3.


Please do let us know what you think of the 22 compared to the MK2.  I was really considering getting an MK2 but was concerned about the brightness many reviews mention.  Normally that wouldn't concern me, but I recently had to let go of my SR-009S and KGSSHV Carbon as I found over time the nature of that treble heavy tonality begain to have an adverse effect on my ears that hasn't completely gone away yet.  Coming back to planars and tubes has made things quite a bit better, but none the less I am still curious about the MK2.  I have an SPL Phonitor XE on the way that I am looking forward to try and compare to the WA22 as well.

Also I have to ask those of you that have used both the new tubes and NOS tubes, which do you prefer?  I have always been of the understanding the NOS tubes will typically sound better.  Also I have read quite a few posts that talk about the newer tubes being prone to blow up and damage the amp.  Is there any validity to this?


----------



## Thaddy

Dan Lee said:


> Please do let us know what you think of the 22 compared to the MK2.  I was really considering getting an MK2 but was concerned about the brightness many reviews mention.  Normally that wouldn't concern me, but I recently had to let go of my SR-009S and KGSSHV Carbon as I found over time the nature of that treble heavy tonality begain to have an adverse effect on my ears that hasn't completely gone away yet.  Coming back to planars and tubes has made things quite a bit better, but none the less I am still curious about the MK2.  I have an SPL Phonitor XE on the way that I am looking forward to try and compare to the WA22 as well.
> 
> Also I have to ask those of you that have used both the new tubes and NOS tubes, which do you prefer?  I have always been of the understanding the NOS tubes will typically sound better.  Also I have read quite a few posts that talk about the newer tubes being prone to blow up and damage the amp.  Is there any validity to this?



I've been listening to the LCD-2C's with a Benchmark DAC3 and the GS-X Mk2 and would hardly describe it as bright.  It's incredibly transparent and neutral, but this amp is very much source dependent and will really let your headphones sound the way they were designed.  My PS Audio DL III was not cutting it, but the Benchmark DAC3 has been a very nice pairing.  I expect the WA22 will also be a very nice pairing but will add a touch of warmth to the mid range and low end.  Who's to say, have to hear it first!

I have typically preferred NOS tubes because, in my experience, they seem to have a fuller mid range.  I assume this is because most of these tubes were developed during the radio era and the tubes were designed to reproduce a human voice.  I can't remember where I heard that but it at least makes sense in my head.  

I haven't had any issues of NOS or newer tubes blowing up in my amps, but I've always stayed away from adapters and tubes from shady sellers, and stuck with using tubes that the amps were designed for.


----------



## attmci

MIKELAP said:


> Still have mine i use it with HD800S and Grado RS2E.  Tubes  are 5998 as powers along with 6SC7 and 6Z4GY as Rectifier


u mean 5z4g?


----------



## attmci

Dan Lee said:


> Please do let us know what you think of the 22 compared to the MK2.  I was really considering getting an MK2 but was concerned about the brightness many reviews mention.  Normally that wouldn't concern me, but I recently had to let go of my SR-009S and KGSSHV Carbon as I found over time the nature of that treble heavy tonality begain to have an adverse effect on my ears that hasn't completely gone away yet.  Coming back to planars and tubes has made things quite a bit better, but none the less I am still curious about the MK2.  I have an SPL Phonitor XE on the way that I am looking forward to try and compare to the WA22 as well.
> 
> Also I have to ask those of you that have used both the new tubes and NOS tubes, which do you prefer?  I have always been of the understanding the NOS tubes will typically sound better.  Also I have read quite a few posts that talk about the newer tubes being prone to blow up and damage the amp.  Is there any validity to this?


Buy a NIB 422A and forget about the rectifier tube rolling.


----------



## MIKELAP

attmci said:


> u mean 5z4g?


----------



## MIKELAP

https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/5z4gycv1863-kbfe-stc-brimar-nos-boxed/


----------



## attmci

MIKELAP said:


>


Best value rectifier for the WA22.


----------



## Dan Lee

attmci said:


> Buy a NIB 422A and forget about the rectifier tube rolling.


Are you referring specifically to the Western Electric NOS 422A?  I was looking for one of those and have had a relatively difficult time finding one.


----------



## UntilThen

MIKELAP said:


> https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/5z4gycv1863-kbfe-stc-brimar-nos-boxed/



You like this ? Might give it a try as it's cheap.


----------



## attmci

Dan Lee said:


> Are you referring specifically to the Western Electric NOS 422A?  I was looking for one of those and have had a relatively difficult time finding one.



Yes. 

Everybody's waiting
Everybody's watching
Even when you're sleeping
Keep your eyes open
U'll find one


----------



## Dan Lee

@thecrow where are you able to find the tung sol 5998's at $250 a matched pair?  I have had a hard time finding tubes at prices I sometimes see listed in this thread.  

I've currently got a nice set of Raytheon VT231 NOS I'm running as driver tubes and they are really great with regard to clarity, soundstage, and holographics.  I've got a nice NOS RCA 5R4GY rectifier that has added a bit more to the speed.  Im using some Sylvania 7236 for power tubes.  

Overall this combination sounds very good, but I want to get a sound more euphonic and or euphoric in nature.  Something magical and ghostly sounding that I've only every experienced from tubes.  I recently bought a pair of the well known RCA 5692 red base drivers on someones recommendation that they had a bit of that sound and in all honesty I found them rather dissapointing compared to the Raytheon.  Soundstage was a little smaller and rather than add warmth, or tube like tonalities it gave a good bit more clarity which though nice is not really what I am looking for in a tube amp.

Any other reccomendations my friends?  Any of you selling or know anyone selling some tubes of the type listed above?  

Thanks guys


----------



## thecrow

i bought the ts5998 about two years ago

i would say just be patient and you might find a decent (not perfect pair) for $250-300

I'm not saying to go with these or that these are good enough but I did see these
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pcs-CH...rentrq:02038bd416e0abc05acbd897fff3d108|iid:1


----------



## Dan Lee

Wow thank you @thecrow thats a good price and if I'm not mistaken arent those pretty much the same as the TS5998.  I was of the understanding that TS was the only one to have made the 5998 though I very well could be mistaken.


----------



## flea22

Hey guys, Does anyone know of a good power tube that will work well with the mullard ecc35? Using the ecc35 with 5998's at the moment and somthing is a little off with the lcd 3s. Also are these the same 6080 mullards that people say sound good https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MULLARD...m3cdbe68316:g:6fYAAOSwnHZYfOVS&frcectupt=true. Also if anyone has a lead on some gec curved brown base 6as7g please let me know.

Thanks


----------



## Dan Lee

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Finally happy with my setup.
> 
> Utopia is on the way.
> 
> Have a good night for all


Do you mind telling me what tubes your are running in this image?

I am looking to get the adapters for 6080 to dual 6BL7 and if I'm not mistaken you can also use this for 6SN7 yes?  The adapters I keep seeing say only for Elise, I'm assuming that these can still be used with the WA22 or is there some odd reason they would only work with the Elise?

Last question.  Has anyone tried to or know if you can run 4 6SN7's as your powers plus another 2 for your drivers?


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Dan Lee said:


> Do you mind telling me what tubes your are running in this image?
> 
> I am looking to get the adapters for 6080 to dual 6BL7 and if I'm not mistaken you can also use this for 6SN7 yes?  The adapters I keep seeing say only for Elise, I'm assuming that these can still be used with the WA22 or is there some odd reason they would only work with the Elise?
> 
> Last question.  Has anyone tried to or know if you can run 4 6SN7's as your powers plus another 2 for your drivers?



Well, it's 4 6BL7 on the power. ECC35 on the Driver and U52 on the rectifier.

I bought on this link https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-Gold-plated-6BL7-TO-6AS7-tube-converter-adapter/191792226144

I never tried with the 6SN7 , my "tube mentor" only recommended this one and he rolls a hell on the WA22. 

Better stay just on the 6BL7


----------



## Dan Lee

Thaddy said:


> I've been listening to the LCD-2C's with a Benchmark DAC3 and the GS-X Mk2 and would hardly describe it as bright.  It's incredibly transparent and neutral, but this amp is very much source dependent and will really let your headphones sound the way they were designed.  My PS Audio DL III was not cutting it, but the Benchmark DAC3 has been a very nice pairing.  I expect the WA22 will also be a very nice pairing but will add a touch of warmth to the mid range and low end.  Who's to say, have to hear it first!
> 
> I have typically preferred NOS tubes because, in my experience, they seem to have a fuller mid range.  I assume this is because most of these tubes were developed during the radio era and the tubes were designed to reproduce a human voice.  I can't remember where I heard that but it at least makes sense in my head.
> 
> I haven't had any issues of NOS or newer tubes blowing up in my amps, but I've always stayed away from adapters and tubes from shady sellers, and stuck with using tubes that the amps were designed for.


I love the way the Sophia and EML tube glow, but I have always been of the understanding, like you, that NOS is going to sound better.  Now to find some NOS that sound awesome with a nice glow. 

Glad to hear that the MK2 isn't as bright as some have suggested.  I've had that confirmed by more than a few people lately.  They did say that mainly applies to planars and it might not be a fantastic idea to run a Utopia or pair of HD800's with it.  Either way I will find out soon as I will have one on order in the next week.  Have you used either of the two as a preamp for the other yet?  I imagine they will pair nicely in either scenario.


----------



## Dan Lee

Joao Paulo Martins said:


> Well, it's 4 6BL7 on the power. ECC35 on the Driver and U52 on the rectifier.
> 
> I bought on this link https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-Dual-Gold-plated-6BL7-TO-6AS7-tube-converter-adapter/191792226144
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice and the tube info.  Any particular 6BL7's to look for?  I know there was at least one person in this thread who was using this adapter to run 1 6BL7 and 1 6SN7 per side and he said it sounded nice, but I'm 100% new to the dual adapters and don't wanna damage anything.

Thanks


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

Dan Lee said:


> Thanks for the advice and the tube info.  Any particular 6BL7's to look for?  I know there was at least one person in this thread who was using this adapter to run 1 6BL7 and 1 6SN7 per side and he said it sounded nice, but I'm 100% new to the dual adapters and don't wanna damage anything.
> 
> Thanks



I just search Quad 6BL7 on ebay. I bought s spare quad yesterday. It's around $70-$80.

Hope you enjoy 

Joao


----------



## Thaddy

Dan Lee said:


> I love the way the Sophia and EML tube glow, but I have always been of the understanding, like you, that NOS is going to sound better.  Now to find some NOS that sound awesome with a nice glow.
> 
> Glad to hear that the MK2 isn't as bright as some have suggested.  I've had that confirmed by more than a few people lately.  They did say that mainly applies to planars and it might not be a fantastic idea to run a Utopia or pair of HD800's with it.  Either way I will find out soon as I will have one on order in the next week.  Have you used either of the two as a preamp for the other yet?  I imagine they will pair nicely in either scenario.


My WA22 gets delivered on Tuesday. I was planning on using the balanced loop outs on my GS-X to feed the WA22, but hadn’t thought about using one as a preamp. I may test that out after the stock tubes burn in a bit and I start rolling in other tubes.

Speaking of tubes, I recently picked up a 1950 Tung-Sol 5U4G with ribbed plates, and a NOS RCA 5R4GY with smooth plates, which I’ve heard sound very nice. The Sophia 274B is being delivered with the WA22, which should make for plenty of rectifiers to try out. I’ve got an entire box filled with tons of 6AS7G/6080/7236 and 6SN7’s too.


----------



## Dan Lee

Thaddy said:


> My WA22 gets delivered on Tuesday. I was planning on using the balanced loop outs on my GS-X to feed the WA22, but hadn’t thought about using one as a preamp. I may test that out after the stock tubes burn in a bit and I start rolling in other tubes.
> 
> Speaking of tubes, I recently picked up a 1950 Tung-Sol 5U4G with ribbed plates, and a NOS RCA 5R4GY with smooth plates, which I’ve heard sound very nice. The Sophia 274B is being delivered with the WA22, which should make for plenty of rectifiers to try out. I’ve got an entire box filled with tons of 6AS7G/6080/7236 and 6SN7’s too.


Dont know why I thought you already got yours, but either way I think your gonna dig it.  You are fortunate to have so many tube options to play with.  Tube rolling/collecting could easily be considered a hobby of its own and that coupled with hifi audio makes for quite the expensive combo haha.  I've already spent well over $1K on tubes and I've only had my amp for a month or two.  gotta calm down... after I get some more of course.


----------



## Thaddy

Dan Lee said:


> Dont know why I thought you already got yours, but either way I think your gonna dig it.  You are fortunate to have so many tube options to play with.  Tube rolling/collecting could easily be considered a hobby of its own and that coupled with hifi audio makes for quite the expensive combo haha.  I've already spent well over $1K on tubes and I've only had my amp for a month or two.  gotta calm down... after I get some more of course.


I was in the same boat, and it's exactly how I ended up with thousands of dollars of tubes as well.  I've found that after rolling in a few different types of tubes, I'll usually just listen to 2 or 3 variants and leave the rest alone.  Heck, the last year with my WA2 I listened to nothing but RFT EZ81's, Chatham 6AS7G's, and Tung-Sol 6SN7's with the Woo adapters.  Tube rolling can be fun, but IMO it's more fun to find a set or two you like and just enjoy the music.  Money is better spent on different headphones, which will have a MUCH larger impact on sound signature.


----------



## thecrow

Dan Lee said:


> Wow thank you @thecrow thats a good price and if I'm not mistaken arent those pretty much the same as the TS5998.  I was of the understanding that TS was the only one to have made the 5998 though I very well could be mistaken.


They should be the same (or pretty much) from my understanding.

the best tubes for my prefs are the gec6as7g. I have found some in the past around $100-$200 each. The ones i have bought (5 or 6 tubes) have never been matched pairs, they probably have never been 100% NOS, in fact i will never take readings on ebay as fact, and 2 or 3 of them have developed a slight hum when music is not being played.

but for what i have paid i have been happy with them and if they had pinging sounds or hums when i first bought then i would have returned them if sold as good to me

if it costs $650 for an excellent pair from a reputable seller that i am hoping will last 8000 hours then i am happy to have paid $150 per tube if it ends up lasting say 3000 hours.
But i usually only bought tubes from sellers with a long and excellent history.

for me the gec6as7g are the tubes i use 90% of the time. Plug in and forget for my prefs.

ps i have always wondered what an authentic 100%nos pair would sound like compared to mine but as i already like mine I’m not too fussed at all and I don’t need to buy any more

ps for what it’s worth i have the wa2 and not the wa22


----------



## thecrow

Dan Lee said:


> Dont know why I thought you already got yours, but either way I think your gonna dig it.  You are fortunate to have so many tube options to play with.  Tube rolling/collecting could easily be considered a hobby of its own and that coupled with hifi audio makes for quite the expensive combo haha.  I've already spent well over $1K on tubes and I've only had my amp for a month or two.  gotta calm down... after I get some more of course.


My experience has shown me ending up with a few more tubes than i need but my tip would be it seriously is about quality v quantity of variety of tubes and if you see a common thread here re views of certain tubes then it’s probably prettty accurate and save your $ by not going to far left of centre ....unless you are happy to spend money in order to experiment 

i have seen a number of members buy so many tubes and buy different years of the same tube to only sell some later on and others that buy adapters left right and centre.

 I would like to think that tube amps are made with those particular tube kinds in mind and playing with adapters are nothing more than playing experimenting for the sake of it - which is still ok if you want to


----------



## Dan Lee

I appreciate the advice guys.  I am thinking I would like to have two solid set ups since I don't really want to just roll tubes endlessly.  Nice to have a different tonal quality on standby when that need arises.  Both of you have made suggestions to try and avoid adapters and at this point I think thats probably what I am thinking if for nothing other than simplicity's sake.  If I throw adapters into that mix the options for experimentation become endless.  I've got two pairs of very good quality NOS drivers that I am enjoying right now, and one nice NOS rectifier.  Those were from Brent Jessee and then I picked up a couple matched pairs of NOS Sylvania 7236's which are nice but I'd like to try something with a smoother sweeter sound.  Thinkin maybe bendix 6080wb or the TS5998.  Last on the list is likely a WE422a to run as a rectifier or a 274b... if I win some money or somethin haha.  

But after reading your more experienced tube rolling views I am likely gonna try and stick as closely to the non adapter required tubes for a good while if not indefinitely.  

Thanks guys.


----------



## thecrow (Oct 27, 2019)

Dan Lee said:


> I appreciate the advice guys.  I am thinking I would like to have two solid set ups since I don't really want to just roll tubes endlessly.  Nice to have a different tonal quality on standby when that need arises.  Both of you have made suggestions to try and avoid adapters and at this point I think thats probably what I am thinking if for nothing other than simplicity's sake.  If I throw adapters into that mix the options for experimentation become endless.  I've got two pairs of very good quality NOS drivers that I am enjoying right now, and one nice NOS rectifier.  Those were from Brent Jessee and then I picked up a couple matched pairs of NOS Sylvania 7236's which are nice but I'd like to try something with a smoother sweeter sound.  Thinkin maybe bendix 6080wb or the TS5998.  Last on the list is likely a WE422a to run as a rectifier or a 274b... if I win some money or somethin haha.
> 
> But after reading your more experienced tube rolling views I am likely gonna try and stick as closely to the non adapter required tubes for a good while if not indefinitely.
> 
> Thanks guys.


If this is of any use my experience has given me these opinions:

once i had my gec6as7g i had no need for the tung sols at all BUT this may not be the case for all other users. I view the tung sols as the secondary option

however the bendix 6080wb graphite slotted tubes i have don’t have the same extension at all but there is a real weight to this sound (that’s the key character of their sound)(and the physical tubes themselves are heavy). Found them good for my deep purple collection. That kind of genre/sound. No graininess to them that some cheaper tubes can have. Fair detail (ie pretty good but not exceptional) on them but not necessarily open or extended in sound.

but last time i looked at these bendix tubes on ebay i thought they were overpriced. About $300 or so a pair last time i checked. I think they are pretty rare. The tung sols would provide a sound that i think would have broader appeal (if you don’t go the gec path). I got lucky and bought them from some bloke in italy two or three years ago at a decent price and they have been good

I don’t know from any experience of other bendix tubes (i have never tried any others) but i have been told these 6080b with the slotted graphite are the ones to get in the bendix tubes

And then there is the less expensive and more laid back tubes that are not to be discounted for that style and for bang for buck. Eg gec6080 from the uk

IMHO. YMMV


----------



## Dan Lee

That is very helpful information indeed my friend.  I would love to be able to drop money on as many tubes as I could get my hands on, but that is simply not an option for me.  I may try the Tung Sols first, or if by some miracle I can find a decent price on them the GEC's.  I'm still curious about the WE421a's, but those are certainly priced well for the seller.  

Any good rectifier recommendations?  Preferably something NOS with a nice bright glow.  In the end sound is obviously more important than aesthetics, but would be nice to have both.


----------



## Thaddy

I wouldn't drop money on the big name power tubes just yet.  Pick up some quality matched 6AS7G's and see how you like them.  I have some Tung Sol and Chatham 6AS7G's that sound great and didn't cost an arm and a leg.  RCA's can also be had for a fair price.  Here are the two rectifiers I just got that I'll be swapping in at some point:

1950 Tung Sol 5U4G Ribbed Plate
NOS RCA JAN 5R4GY Smooth Plate

Both are fairly inexpensive, and have different plate structures that may be interesting to compare.  I'll spend money on the EML or something more exotic if these don't do it for me.


----------



## Dan Lee

That seems like sound advice.  I may have to take some time to figure out which ebay dealers can be trusted and take advantage of the better pricing.  Let me know how you like those rectifiers.


----------



## SnapperMusicFan

flea22 said:


> Hey guys, Does anyone know of a good power tube that will work well with the mullard ecc35? Using the ecc35 with 5998's at the moment and somthing is a little off with the lcd 3s. Also are these the same 6080 mullards that people say sound good https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MULLARD...m3cdbe68316:g:6fYAAOSwnHZYfOVS&frcectupt=true. Also if anyone has a lead on some gec curved brown base 6as7g please let me know.
> 
> Thanks


I have been listening using LCD-MX4’s for drivers I have a match pair of 6f8g with Woo adapters, a 596 rectifier & Bendix 6080wb power tubes the sound out of this combo is super 3d lovely layering, doesn’t matter the genre.
I listen to both vinyl and hi-res mac mini Roon chord qutest or hugo 2. Can’t find a cleaner combo with this amp. 596 sounds way shaper and impactful that the Sophia.
Hope this helps


----------



## Thaddy (Oct 29, 2019)

My new WA22 was delivered today, it's currently burning in a bit with the stock tubes before I replace them with something nicer.

One thought regarding the stock tubes, for a $2,500 amp I would have expected something a bit nicer.  Fortunately 99% of the people out there will be replacing the tubes anyways, but it seems silly to ship such a nice amp with what appear to be 80's/90's era Russian tubes.

Oh well, I'm still looking forward to listening to the new WA22 and comparing it against the GS-X Mk2.


----------



## attmci

Thaddy said:


> My new WA22 was delivered today, it's currently burning in a bit with the stock tubes before I replace them with something nicer.
> 
> One thought regarding the stock tubes, for a $2,500 amp I would have expected something a bit nicer.  Fortunately 99% of the people out there will be replacing the tubes anyways, but it seems silly to ship such a nice amp with what appear to be 80's/90's era Russian tubes.
> 
> Oh well, I'm still looking forward to listening to the new WA22 and comparing it against the GS-X Mk2.


Russian tubes now? Really?


----------



## Thaddy

Yeah, it came with RCA 6080WA power tubes, Russian 6H8C preamp tubes, and a Russian 5U3C rectifier. These seem to be the preamp tubes, while this seems to match the rectifier.


----------



## Dan Lee

Yeah I can say the stock tubes don't seem to make a great deal of sense from a business perspective.  When I heard this unit for the first time I gotta say I was rather disappointed and immediately wondered if I made the right decision.  Fortunately I had a little bit of tube rolling experience, at least enough to try some NOS tubes before making a declaration of any kind.  With good tubes this is one of the best amps I've heard and I think I still got a ways to go before I hit the right combo for my ears.  So it's only getting better from here.  

All that being said seems like they could include some tubes that at the very least don't make an amazing amp seem like a mediocre one.


----------



## attmci (Oct 29, 2019)

Thaddy said:


> Yeah, it came with RCA 6080WA power tubes, Russian 6H8C preamp tubes, and a Russian 5U3C rectifier. These seem to be the preamp tubes, while this seems to match the rectifier.


https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-56

At least upgrade the rectifier to the one Mike recommended or a GZ34.

Then the top ones listed here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## Thaddy

I already have a Sophia 274B, a 1950 Tung-Sol 5U4G bottom getter, and a NOS RCA JAN 5R4GY bottom getter with a smooth plate waiting to go in.  I may also snag an earlier version of the RCA 5R4GY with the dark brown base and dual bottom getters.


----------



## Roasty

flea22 said:


> Hey guys, Does anyone know of a good power tube that will work well with the mullard ecc35? Using the ecc35 with 5998's at the moment and somthing is a little off with the lcd 3s. Also are these the same 6080 mullards that people say sound good https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MULLARD...m3cdbe68316:g:6fYAAOSwnHZYfOVS&frcectupt=true. Also if anyone has a lead on some gec curved brown base 6as7g please let me know.
> 
> Thanks



I use ecc35 with WE421A. Prefer that combo over ecc35+ts5998/Mullard 6080.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> I use ecc35 with WE421A. Prefer that combo over ecc35+ts5998/Mullard 6080.


My clear-top sounds the same as the WE421A (do have a couple of these).


----------



## Roasty

attmci said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-56
> 
> At least upgrade the rectifier to the one Mike recommended or a GZ34.
> 
> ...



I love that thread from dubstep girl. What rectifier are u using? Am keen to try the Mullard GZ32/CV593. The Brimar 5R4GY was a bit too rolled off up top for me.


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> I love that thread from dubstep girl. What rectifier are u using? Am keen to try the Mullard GZ32/CV593. The Brimar 5R4GY was a bit too rolled off up top for me.


There are 2 rules for guaranteed success in life. Rule #1: dont tell people everything you know...

I am using a 422, and some times a metal base GZ34.


----------



## Thaddy (Nov 1, 2019)

Decided to fire up my WA22 with a quintuplet of Tung-Sol's, and noticed the 5U4G rectifier is emitting quite the festive glow.  I decided to remove it and replace it with my Sophia 274B, but can anyone tell me if this is normal or safe?  I've never had a tube glow like this before, and can only assume this one has lost some of it's vacuum.

edit:  I also see it decided to shed it's tube damper


----------



## UntilThen

Beautiful 

Mine this morning with Cossor 53ku, Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp, Tung Sol 5998. WA22 is a beautiful sounding amp with Verite.


----------



## Thaddy

Looks pretty, but I believe it's the sign of a bad tube...


----------



## Thaddy

Question for WA22 owners:  I seem to be having a persistent hum in my new WA22.  I've gone through a handful of different power and preamp tubes, and I believe I've narrowed it down to the rectifier.  The stock Russian 5U3C hums, and to my disappointment the Sophia 274B also has an audible hum.  Note that the hum doesn't increase with the volume, it's consistent regardless of the volume level when music isn't playing.

Today I took delivery of a 1940's era RCA 5R4GY and to my surprise the hum is gone.  Both low and high gain.  I'm happy that I might have discovered the source of the hum, but extremely disappointed my $170 Sophia 274B hums.  Does anyone else seem to have this problem with their Sophia?


----------



## UntilThen

That's a shame Thaddy that your new Sophia 274B rectifier hums. I would be put off by the amp if that was my first impression. However since I bought my used WA22, my 3 rectifiers and any driver and power tubes are totally quiet - impressive.

Both my GEC U52 and Cossor 53ku are totally quiet on the amp. So are the 5998, 6as7 and Bendix 6080wb. So are the Tung Sol 6F8G bgrp.

However glad that you've found a rectifier that is quiet. So it's not the amp.


----------



## Thaddy

Yeah, it's fairly disappointing.  I'm going to test a few more tubes just to make sure, but at this point I'm fairly certain it's the Sophia 274B.  I knew it was odd that I was noticing humming with power and preamp tubes that were dead silent in my WA2.  Suppose I'll contact Woo Audio on Monday to see what they can do to help.


----------



## Roasty

Thaddy said:


> Question for WA22 owners:  I seem to be having a persistent hum in my new WA22.  I've gone through a handful of different power and preamp tubes, and I believe I've narrowed it down to the rectifier.  The stock Russian 5U3C hums, and to my disappointment the Sophia 274B also has an audible hum.  Note that the hum doesn't increase with the volume, it's consistent regardless of the volume level when music isn't playing.
> 
> Today I took delivery of a 1940's era RCA 5R4GY and to my surprise the hum is gone.  Both low and high gain.  I'm happy that I might have discovered the source of the hum, but extremely disappointed my $170 Sophia 274B hums.  Does anyone else seem to have this problem with their Sophia?



my Sophia 274b is quiet. 
take this opportunity to try an emission labs 5u4g. I find it better than the Sophia tube all round.


----------



## Thaddy (Nov 2, 2019)

Roasty said:


> my Sophia 274b is quiet.
> take this opportunity to try an emission labs 5u4g. I find it better than the Sophia tube all round.



I may get the EML 5U4G at some point, but right now I hate to spend $280 just because my brand new $170 Sophia 274B is humming.  I'm very interested in the EML, but I'd prefer to get used to what I have first.  I've found that I appreciate the tube upgrades less when I swap them out too soon.


----------



## Roasty

Thaddy said:


> I may get the EML 5U4G at some point, but right now I hate to spend $280 just because my brand new $180 Sophia 274B is humming.  I'm very interested in the EML, but I'd prefer to get used to what I have first.  I've found that I appreciate the tube upgrades less when I swap them out too soon.



Yep that's understandable. 
Tubes are hit and miss with me. I've got 2 sets of drivers that hum (ecc35 and sylvania 6sn7) and a brand new Psvane we274 replica.. But the hum is pretty loud with these bad eggs and they're in the no-listen pile. Not sure if hum disappears with use as I've read tubes need some time to settle in.. Good luck!


----------



## Thaddy

Roasty said:


> Yep that's understandable.
> Tubes are hit and miss with me. I've got 2 sets of drivers that hum (ecc35 and sylvania 6sn7) and a brand new Psvane we274 replica.. But the hum is pretty loud with these bad eggs and they're in the no-listen pile. Not sure if hum disappears with use as I've read tubes need some time to settle in.. Good luck!


That's what I'm going to try next, I'll let the Sophia burn in a bit longer and hopefully the hum goes away or at least is reduced a bit.


----------



## 2K9R56S

I bought a Sophia Princess 274B in 2017 directly from Sophia Electric.  Within a few minutes the volume output was cut in half and would emit a blip of static with each volume step.  I sent it back and the replacement I got did the same thing while the glow would alternate from bright to dim.  Woo's only suggestion was to try the Sophia with the stock power and driver tubes, no dice.  Sophia Electric suggested I have my amplifier repaired immediately and claimed that the original tube I sent to them for replacement was charred on the inside and filled with black smoke, which is complete BS.  So the replacement went on eBay with this story and a disclaimer.  A WA6 owner bought it and it works perfectly for him.  I've got 12 different rectifiers for my WA22 of varying price and vintage and they all work perfectly.  There was just something about those two (bad batch?) of Sophias that my WA22 didn't like.


----------



## attmci

Thaddy said:


> I may get the EML 5U4G at some point, but right now I hate to spend $280 just because my brand new $170 Sophia 274B is humming.  I'm very interested in the EML, but I'd prefer to get used to what I have first.  I've found that I appreciate the tube upgrades less when I swap them out too soon.


Try a used tube before you buy a NIB. As soon as you open the box, it drops in value.


----------



## brams (Nov 2, 2019)

I'm a new user of the WA22 (got a good deal on a used unit) and had a hum with both Sophia 274Bs I tried as well.  This suggests that it might be the nature of these tubes.  Ironically I found them to be a bit quieter than the stock tubes supplied with the unit that had never been used by the previous owner.

The hum may not be all that noticeable (meaning abnormally high relative to the slight hum that exists with most tube equipment) unless your headphones are of higher than average sensitivity, you're sensitive to hum, or have a noisy power line.   My cans are ultra sensitive (105db,16 ohm) so the hum was very intrusive.

To get rid of it I ended up using a Chatham 5R4WGB rectifier (the potato smasher) I had lying around and the hum was almost, but not completely eliminated. Now I can just hear it slightly with no music playing.

Surprisingly the potato smasher turned out to be not too bad for the application from a sound signature point of view.  Warm tone for sure with a sweet top end, but no apparent loss of detail.  They were only tried as an experiment to isolate the cause of the hum, but I may now try to tube roll to complement its signature.


----------



## attmci

brams said:


> I'm a new user of the WA22 (got a good deal on a used unit) and had a hum with both Sophia 274Bs I tried as well.  This suggests that it might be the nature of these tubes.  Ironically I found them to be a quieter than the stock tubes supplied with the unit that had never been used by the previous owner.
> 
> The hum may not be all that noticeable (meaning abnormally high relative to the slight hum that exists with most tube equipment) unless your headphones are of higher than average sensitivity, you're sensitive to hum, or have a noisy power line.   My cans are ultra sensitive (105db,16 ohm) so the hum was very intrusive.
> 
> ...


WA22 should be dead silent. Don't have Sophia 274B. Don't know why they even call it a 274B...........


----------



## Dan Lee

For those of you running the dual 6BL7's in place of the 6080's, have any of you tried the Tung Sol 5998's and if so which did you prefer or what were the differences you noticed?  I'm currently running the dual set up with one 6BL7 and one 5692 in mine and I find the sound is far more pleasing than the Sylvania 7236's I was running.  I am still at a point that I could send the 5692's back and get another matched pair of 6BL7's and the 5998's, but not really sure which direction to go here.  

Any advice fellow 22 owners?


----------



## attmci

Dan Lee said:


> For those of you running the dual 6BL7's in place of the 6080's, have any of you tried the Tung Sol 5998's and if so which did you prefer or what were the differences you noticed?  I'm currently running the dual set up with one 6BL7 and one 5692 in mine and I find the sound is far more pleasing than the Sylvania 7236's I was running.  I am still at a point that I could send the 5692's back and get another matched pair of 6BL7's and the 5998's, but not really sure which direction to go here.
> 
> Any advice fellow 22 owners?



Get a nice pair of power tubes and forget about the 6BL7 etc.


----------



## jonno41

BillinSF said:


> OMG.  Watching NCAA here, and am so pumped up for the Auburn-Kansas game.
> 
> But you folks have me so jazzed for the WA22 I am plugging in for some jazz and funk during the game.  I run WE 422A rectifier (1959), through TS 5998 (1967) power tubes with RCA grey glass VT-231 (1942) drivers.  I spent 2 times the price of the Woo WA22 on tubes, but it sounds damn good with Tidal HiFi.   Holographic with enormous space.
> 
> ...





BillinSF said:


> OMG.  Watching NCAA here, and am so pumped up for the Auburn-Kansas game.
> 
> But you folks have me so jazzed for the WA22 I am plugging in for some jazz and funk during the game.  I run WE 422A rectifier (1959), through TS 5998 (1967) power tubes with RCA grey glass VT-231 (1942) drivers.  I spent 2 times the price of the Woo WA22 on tubes, but it sounds damn good with Tidal HiFi.   Holographic with enormous space.
> 
> ...




I use a WA22 headphone amp but am a novice when it comes to tubes.Is the WE 422A with an adaptor OK to use with the WA22 amp.Thanks


----------



## BillinSF

attmci said:


> Get a nice pair of power tubes and forget about the 6BL7 etc.





jonno41 said:


> I use a WA22 headphone amp but am a novice when it comes to tubes.Is the WE 422A with an adaptor OK to use with the WA22 amp.Thanks



No need for an adapter for the WE.  Enjoy.


----------



## jonno41

BillinSF said:


> No need for an adapter for the WE.  Enjoy.



Thanks for the quick response and the information.


----------



## Thaddy

So after a bit of burn in, the Sophia 5U4G appears to have quieted down.  I think I'm still going to find an EML 5U4G (and just missed getting one in the classifieds) just to see what the buzz is about.  I also snagged an early 40's RCA 5R4GY dual-getter with a dark brown base and smooth plates for a great price, and this tube is absolutely dead silent.  I have a feeling I'll be using that tube a lot.


----------



## Dan Lee

Just wanted chime in here for a minute with some updates as to the tubes and combinations I have been playing with that are working great and or not so much.

Currently my favorite rectifier has been the 1940's RCA 5R4GY.  This tube is fantastic and at a $200 price tag it's been compared to the WE274B as being pretty damn close in sound quality.  I can't confirm this seeing as I've not heard the WE, but I get all my tubes from Brent Jessee unless I see a good deal on here.  He has told me on a couple occasions just how impressed he is by how close these are tonally to the 274.  I've also just purchased a Mullard made GZ37/CV378 military type and so far it sound decent, but needs bit of burn in time.  

Driver tubes I got a pair of Raytheon VT231 military's and my god are they incredible.  These were $200 for the pair and are a steal at that for what you get.  I then purchased a pair of the well known RCA 5692 red base for $340.  I quote the prices to make the following point.  I have sent the Red bases back.  They are beautiful looking tubes and they do sound very good, but the VT231's sound better by a large margin and save you $140.  

I was looking into a pair of Tung Sol 5998's but they were unavailable, but I found a pair of dual 6BL7 to 6080 adapters and ordered some matched pairs of 6BL7's and 6BX7's and am currently running with 1 pair of each and these sound fantastic.  I was using some very nice Sylvania 7236's which are roughly $200 per pair and these 6BL7's at about $10 a piece minus adapter cost are so much more enjoyable and provide an overall more open and 3 dimensional sound when combined with the VT231's and RCA rec.

Anyway just figured I would share.


----------



## Thaddy (Nov 12, 2019)

Does your 1940's RCA 5R4GY have a dark brown base with a double-bottom getter and smooth plates?  I've got two, one as described and one that I think is an early 50's 5R4GY that has a lighter brown base, a single bottom getter, and smooth plates.  The early 40's tube is dead silent, and sounds extremely clean with my early 40's RCA 6AS7G's and RCA gray glass 6SN7's.  I've yet to really splurge on driver tubes and honestly I'm not sure I will.  I've been extremely happy with it's sound so far, glad you've also found some tubes that are working.


----------



## jonno41

Dan Lee said:


> Just wanted chime in here for a minute with some updates as to the tubes and combinations I have been playing with that are working great and or not so much.
> 
> Currently my favorite rectifier has been the 1940's RCA 5R4GY.  This tube is fantastic and at a $200 price tag it's been compared to the WE274B as being pretty damn close in sound quality.  I can't confirm this seeing as I've not heard the WE, but I get all my tubes from Brent Jessee unless I see a good deal on here.  He has told me on a couple occasions just how impressed he is by how close these are tonally to the 274.  I've also just purchased a Mullard made GZ37/CV378 military type and so far it sound decent, but needs bit of burn in time.
> 
> ...


----------



## jonno41 (Nov 12, 2019)

I recently purchase a WE22 amp from a friend here in New Zealand and it came fitted with a Mullard metal base GZ34 rectifier tube and a pair of Tung-sol 7236 power tubes which I replaced with a pair of Tung-sol 5998 tubes.A bit more power I think !!
I also got a couple of other rectifier tubes from the guy who originally bought the amp and was doing a bit of tube rolling.A Western Electric 422A and an odd looking 596 with an adapter.Just in the process of swapping tubes around but with my old ears can`t honestly say I hear much difference.The 596 sounds a little bit on the bright side to me and the 422A sounds a bit warmer.


----------



## Dan Lee

Thaddy said:


> Does your 1940's RCA 5R4GY have a dark brown base with a double-bottom getter and smooth plates?  I've got two, one as described and one that I think is an early 50's 5R4GY that has a lighter brown base, a single bottom getter, and smooth plates.  The early 40's tube is dead silent, and sounds extremely clean with my early 40's RCA 6AS7G's and RCA gray glass 6SN7's.  I've yet to really splurge on driver tubes and honestly I'm not sure I will.  I've been extremely happy with it's sound so far, glad you've also found some tubes that are working.


Yes that is the tube exactly.  I really enjoy it.  I am trying to burn in the Mullard GZ37 a bit now and it has a different sound, but still enjoy the RCA a little better.  I imagine your 6AS7G's sound good as well.  If you do decide to upgrade your driver tubes I can't recommend the Raytheon VT231's enough.  By far they have made the most drastic impact to the overall quality of sound.  But in truth I find as long as it sounds good tube upgrades can wait a bit and its probably better financially speaking as well.



jonno41 said:


> I recently purchase a WE22 amp from a friend here in New Zealand and it came fitted with a Mullard metal base GZ34 rectifier tube and a pair of Tung-sol 7236 power tubes which I replaced with a pair of Tung-sol 5998 tubes.A bit more power I think !!
> I also got a couple of other rectifier tubes from the guy who originally bought the amp and was doing a bit of tube rolling.A Western Electric 422A and an odd looking 596 with an adapter.Just in the process of swapping tubes around but with my old ears can`t honestly say I hear much difference.The 596 sounds a little bit on the bright side to me and the 422A sounds a bit warmer.


The WE422a is the tube I am looking to next.  I know it can be run without an adapter, but I've heard that it is safer to run it with the adapter and so far have been unable to find one, but I imagine I will find one.

Any of you run 5670/2c51/396a tubes as driver tubes and if so what did you think?


----------



## jonno41

Hi Dan,Woo Audio tube equivalent chart states that the WE 422A is OK without adapter


Dan Lee said:


> Yes that is the tube exactly.  I really enjoy it.  I am trying to burn in the Mullard GZ37 a bit now and it has a different sound, but still enjoy the RCA a little better.  I imagine your 6AS7G's sound good as well.  If you do decide to upgrade your driver tubes I can't recommend the Raytheon VT231's enough.  By far they have made the most drastic impact to the overall quality of sound.  But in truth I find as long as it sounds good tube upgrades can wait a bit and its probably better financially speaking as well.
> 
> 
> The WE422a is the tube I am looking to next.  I know it can be run without an adapter, but I've heard that it is safer to run it with the adapter and so far have been unable to find one, but I imagine I will find one.
> ...



Hi Dan,Woo Audio tube equivalent list states that the WE 422A is OK without an adapter,I also have an adapter for the tube made by a guy in the USA  and here is the reply I got from him when I asked about using or not using an adapter.

"Normally the DC output of most rectifiers GZ34 GZ37 is on pin 8 but the WE422A it comes out of pin two.
The adapter reverses pins 2 and 8 this eliminates 5 volts of AC for the rectifier filament going into the filters
in the power supply. Makes for a little quieter operation."

Doesn`t look like a safety issue but just if you have a bit of noise.


----------



## attmci

jonno41 said:


> Hi Dan,Woo Audio tube equivalent chart states that the WE 422A is OK without adapter
> 
> 
> Hi Dan,Woo Audio tube equivalent list states that the WE 422A is OK without an adapter,I also have an adapter for the tube made by a guy in the USA  and here is the reply I got from him when I asked about using or not using an adapter.
> ...


I believe that "guy" is Glenn.


----------



## jonno41

Hi Dan,you are correct.Glenn is the guy who made my adapters.


----------



## Dan Lee

@jonno41 thanks for the response.  How would I get ahold of this person to get an adapter made for myself as I rather enjoy the idea of less noise?  Also since you've listened to and owned the 422a how would you rate the sound as compared to other rectifiers you have used?

Thanks for all the help and answers guys.


----------



## jonno41

Hi Dan.I havn`t had enough time to have a serious listen to the 422A just yet but initial impression was very good.I don`t have a contact for Glenn but he is 2359glenn on Head-fi


----------



## Dan Lee

Thanks man I really appreciate it.


----------



## attmci

jonno41 said:


> Hi Dan,you are correct.Glenn is the guy who made my adapters.


----------



## Dan Lee

attmci said:


>


Sorry @attmci I just saw you also recommended the Glenn adapter.  I did get ahold of him and he said he would make me an adapter to run the 422a in the 5u4g spot.  My WE422a is gonna be on the way this week.  After that I am gonna focus on finding some Tung Sol 5998's for the powers.  The dual 6BL7's are entertaining, but you can tell they lack a little refinement.


----------



## Empyah

Badas said:


> Mine is a late 2014.
> I don't really care about it on the WA22. I just noticed it has improved.
> I adjust the volume using the V281. I use the V281 as a pre-amp.
> I noticed it cleaned up the treble on the WA22 if the input voltage was lower.
> ...



Hey, i got almost the same setup and would try to use the V281 as preamp too, could you explain how you set it up exactly?
What did you do with the Wa22s volume pot? Are you still using it that way? Any caveats?
Thanks for your answer in advance!


----------



## Badas

Empyah said:


> Hey, i got almost the same setup and would try to use the V281 as preamp too, could you explain how you set it up exactly?
> What did you do with the Wa22s volume pot? Are you still using it that way? Any caveats?
> Thanks for your answer in advance!



It’s easy peasy mate.

DAC into V281 (balanced or not), V281 balanced into WA22.
Switch from head to line on the V281 when using it as a pre-amp for WA22.
Leave volume on WA22 alone. I place volume a little higher than half. Use V281 to adjust volume.
Switch back to head when just using V281.

I have discovered no caveats


----------



## HiFiGuy528

moved....


----------



## StarlightDawn

Hey everyone!

I'm very new to the world of audio (a year in), and I currently have the Verite Open + Tia Trio connected to the Questyle CMA 400i. I feel like I'm not listening to the Verite's fullest potential.. so I have been thinking of upgrading the 400i to the CMA Twelve Master, although the idea of having a seperate Amp + DAC intrigues me. I am quite interested in the WA22, HA-6A, and Manley Absolute. The problem I am facing is that most of the reviews are positive, but the moment I look up what the community are saying it tends to be negative. Since I'm located in Indonesia, there isn't any demo units around here.. so it makes things much harder since it will be a blindbuy. Maybe you guys could point me to the right direction?

Cheers!


----------



## Empyah

StarlightDawn said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I'm very new to the world of audio (a year in), and I currently have the Verite Open + Tia Trio connected to the Questyle CMA 400i. I feel like I'm not listening to the Verite's fullest potential.. so I have been thinking of upgrading the 400i to the CMA Twelve Master, although the idea of having a seperate Amp + DAC intrigues me. I am quite interested in the WA22, HA-6A, and Manley Absolute. The problem I am facing is that most of the reviews are positive, but the moment I look up what the community are saying it tends to be negative. Since I'm located in Indonesia, there isn't any demo units around here.. so it makes things much harder since it will be a blindbuy. Maybe you guys could point me to the right direction?
> 
> Cheers!


Have you taken the tube amps Zach is selling on his page into consideration?


----------



## StarlightDawn

Empyah said:


> Have you taken the tube amps Zach is selling on his page into consideration?



I have 
It's just that there's so many stuff out there, and I don't even know where to start. Since I plan on just sticking with one tube amp for a few years before looking for an upgrade or an alternative.


----------



## Empyah (May 25, 2020)

StarlightDawn said:


> I have
> It's just that there's so many stuff out there, and I don't even know where to start. Since I plan on just sticking with one tube amp for a few years before looking for an upgrade or an alternative.



Woo amps tend to be overpriced for the performance they offer, don't get me wrong they are very well made, beautiful and good sounding amps, but
you can get much better sounding, higher quality amps for the money.
Like the ZMF Pendant (Apmsandsound), the DNA Starlett or Stratus which will both be on a whole nother
level soundwise for around the same price.

I own a Wa22 1st gen myself but had to invest over 600€ more for NOS tubes to really make it sound excellent.
I will be selling it soon, since I managed to snag up the very last original Eddie Current Studio Jr.(and propbably the last original EC ever) that is being burnt in at this very moment.

It cost me 2800$ without 300B tubes but is on par with amps that cost up to 10k or more.
The Wa22 with upgraded tubes would cost me 3000€ at least, and won't even come close to the Studio Jr.
You basically get what you paid for - in Wa22's case a good sounding amp with a beautifull chassis milled out of expensive aluminum blocks that have to be scraped if there are mistakes - which you pay for. 

Just get the ZMF Pendant or DNA Starlett/Stratus and save yourself the money and time spent on experimenting and buying a custom amp later anyway - like most who owned a Wa22 did.
Zach and Ampsandsound made it specifically for ZMF cans, plus it is strong enough for most planars out there:



Or the stratus (he talks about the cable but mentions the amp), one of the best amps in the world, true high end:



And here we have the wonderful DNA Starlett impression thread on "another" forum:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/dna-starlett-impressions.8361/


----------



## StarlightDawn

Empyah said:


> Woo amps tend to be overpriced for the performance they offer, don't get me wrong they are very well made, beautiful and good sounding amps, but
> you can get much better sounding, higher quality amps for the money.
> Like the ZMF Pendant (Apmsandsound), the DNA Starlett or Stratus which will both be on a whole nother
> level soundwise for around the same price.
> ...




Thank you for the links!
It's just hard to buy something that cost this much without actually trying it out myself.
Yeah, I think I'll just wait it out... see how things are towards the end of 2020. I will take a step back, and enjoy what I currently have.


----------



## Empyah

StarlightDawn said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I'm very new to the world of audio (a year in), and I currently have the Verite Open + Tia Trio connected to the Questyle CMA 400i. I feel like I'm not listening to the Verite's fullest potential.. so I have been thinking of upgrading the 400i to the CMA Twelve Master, although the idea of having a seperate Amp + DAC intrigues me. I am quite interested in the WA22, HA-6A, and Manley Absolute. The problem I am facing is that most of the reviews are positive, but the moment I look up what the community are saying it tends to be negative. Since I'm located in Indonesia, there isn't any demo units around here.. so it makes things much harder since it will be a blindbuy. Maybe you guys could point me to the right direction?
> 
> Cheers!



Good not to trust randos on the internet. 
That will save you money and time. Look to visit fairs and meets to hear the amps for yourself.
And to be honest the most help in our hobby one can have is friends and aqaintances you can trade and exchange gear with.
Have fun!


----------



## StarlightDawn

Empyah said:


> Good not to trust randos on the internet.
> That will save you money and time. Look to visit fairs and meets to hear the amps for yourself.
> And to be honest the most help in our hobby one can have is friends and aqaintances you can trade and exchange gear with.
> Have fun!



I completely agree with that. Experience is the best teacher afterall. 
Thank you once again


----------



## Empyah (May 25, 2020)

StarlightDawn said:


> I completely agree with that. Experience is the best teacher afterall.
> Thank you once again



I have to ad here - the Wa22 I have is 1st gen, the Gen 2, which should be an improovement in any aspect, I have not heard.
While we are at it - has anyone here had the chance to hear the new Wa22 and compare to gen 1?


----------



## hackstu

Just bought two 6080 with these values.

        Section a     53mA   3.4ma/V gm
        Section b     58mA   3.4ma/v gm


        Section a      58mA   3.3ma/V gm
        Section b      50mA   3.4ma/V gm

As they are not matched, whats the worst that can happen?


----------



## Joao Paulo Martins

hackstu said:


> Just bought two 6080 with these values.
> 
> Section a     53mA   3.4ma/V gm
> Section b     58mA   3.4ma/v gm
> ...


Disbalance maybe. Don't worry about it.


----------



## cddc

hackstu said:


> Just bought two 6080 with these values.
> 
> Section a     53mA   3.4ma/V gm
> Section b     58mA   3.4ma/v gm
> ...




They are matching very well, but the problem is that they are too weak. The spec for 6080 is 7mA/V, so you bought sub 50% tubes.


----------



## hackstu

Duds then? They are bendix graphite plates.


----------



## m17xr2b

^ depends on the testing values but true. For the typical values on the datasheets it's 100mA for a new tube and 60mA and below for a failed tube. Mind you that doesn't mean it can't be used for a long time in certain scenarios(BH Crack for example) but I'd be sceptical unless the testing parameters are shared.


----------



## hackstu

Tested on AVO Mk4 characteristic meter, finding of each is set out below with 100v on the anodes and -30v grid.

This was said on the ebay post


----------



## silversurfer616

Need some help with a channel imbalance issue. Got my WA22 back from a friend and no matter what tube configuration there’s always a channel imbalance. Stereo image still present but vocals are always at around 10o‘clock and not in the middle. Thanks for any tips and help.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Apologies if i have missed this info on the forum, but could anyone tell what the difference between 1st and 2nd gen. is (apart from preamp)? It seems it is not significant.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Empyah said:


> Just get the ZMF Pendant or DNA Starlett/Stratus and save yourself the money and time spent on experimenting and buying a custom amp later anyway - like most who owned a Wa22 did.


Just have seen this but think i would try wa22 despite this. Just posted WTB in for sale thread if anyone is interesred.


----------



## attmci

Empyah said:


> Woo amps tend to be overpriced for the performance they offer, don't get me wrong they are very well made, beautiful and good sounding amps, but
> you can get much better sounding, higher quality amps for the money.
> Like the ZMF Pendant (Apmsandsound), the DNA Starlett or Stratus which will both be on a whole nother
> level soundwise for around the same price.
> ...



Desktop:
Verite/ Ether2/ HEKse/ AFO 2/ LCD 2.2/ HD650 < EC Studio Junior 2A3 < V281 < Yggdrasil A1 < Lynx AES16e< PC/Qobuz 

Have you tried those amps not in your signature b4?


----------



## MIKELAP

bpiotrow13 said:


> Just have seen this but think i would try wa22 despite this. Just posted WTB in for sale thread if anyone is interesred.


I still own a WA22 its a 2011 model still works great  if you like to tuberoll many choices  with adapters  .You will like it


----------



## MIKELAP

hackstu said:


> Just bought two 6080 with these values.
> 
> Section a     53mA   3.4ma/V gm
> Section b     58mA   3.4ma/v gm
> ...


That's good within about 10% i never bothered with matched tubes anyway and my wallet thanks me


----------



## hackstu (Sep 9, 2020)

Hope someone can help me. Bought two 5998 that are not close matches, in the 15% range if not a bit more but both are strong testing. Without not nowing there exact values is it safe to use two power tubes with over 15% difference?
Does the fact the wa22 is self biasing help?


----------



## Seamaster (Sep 10, 2020)

Empyah said:


> Woo amps tend to be overpriced for the performance they offer, don't get me wrong they are very well made, beautiful and good sounding amps, but
> you can get much better sounding, higher quality amps for the money.
> Like the ZMF Pendant (Apmsandsound), the DNA Starlett or Stratus which will both be on a whole nother
> level soundwise for around the same price.
> ...




I fully agree with your assessment. I sold my ModWright upgraded WA22 N years ago and never looked back, not once! WA22 is a good sounding tube amp but nothing more than a "good" grade, the statement stops right here!


----------



## MIKELAP

Seamaster said:


> I fully agree with your assessment. I sold my ModWright upgraded WA22 N years ago and never looked back, not once! WA22 is a good sounding tube amp but nothing more than a "good" grade, the statement stops right here!


It never ends.There’s always better.I stopped going down that hole for several years now.But I cant deny it was a blast


----------



## Bard Rich

haii..I bought a tube 5998 on the woo audio website..the problem is after 2 months there is noise on the left..when I change the noise it will follow left and right..someone can help me ..


----------



## Seamaster

Bard Rich said:


> haii..I bought a tube 5998 on the woo audio website..the problem is after 2 months there is noise on the left..when I change the noise it will follow left and right..someone can help me ..



Get a new tube, or let it run for a while to see if the noise is still there.


----------



## cddc

Empyah said:


> Woo amps tend to be overpriced for the performance they offer, don't get me wrong they are very well made, beautiful and good sounding amps, but
> you can get much better sounding, higher quality amps for the money.
> Like the ZMF Pendant (Apmsandsound), the DNA Starlett or Stratus which will both be on a whole nother
> level soundwise for around the same price.
> ...





I agree with what you said, but the thing is these 300B and 2A3 tubes are way too expensive to roll. To me the main part of the fun from tube amps is tube rolling. If it is too expensive or impossible to roll tubes, I would just give up considering that amp.

The NOS 300B or 2A3 resources were basically depleted by those speaker amp owners decades ago I think. Nowadays a NOS WE 300B can cost you thousands of dollars, I don't think the majority of the folks can afford a pile of these old NOS 300B tubes to roll.

And all these new production 300B tubes either suck in performance or are priced in high stratosphere. It's just a light bulb, I don't understand why these suckers charge so much for a new production 300B tube. I think their ideology is that those folks fortunate enough to own 300B amps worth the squeeze 😅. So don't be their victims...lol


----------



## Empyah (Oct 3, 2020)

cddc said:


> I agree with what you said, but the thing is these 300B and 2A3 tubes are way too expensive to roll. To me the main part of the fun from tube amps is tube rolling. If it is too expensive or impossible to roll tubes, I would just give up considering that amp.
> 
> The NOS 300B or 2A3 resources were basically depleted by those speaker amp owners decades ago I think. Nowadays a NOS WE 300B can cost you thousands of dollars, I don't think the majority of the folks can afford a pile of these old NOS 300B tubes to roll.
> 
> And all these new production 300B tubes either suck in performance or are priced in high stratosphere. It's just a light bulb, I don't understand why these suckers charge so much for a new production 300B tube. I think their ideology is that those folks fortunate enough to own 300B amps worth the squeeze 😅. So don't be their victims...lol



First of all the Pendant and the Starlett use neither of these big tubes.
NOS 300B tubes are almost out of the question, 2A3 NOS can still be found for a good price (one of the reasons I went for 2A3 on my EC).
It is a marketing myth that you "need" NOS tubes for good sound, new production sounds just as good and can be had for as low as 100 bucks a pair.

Elrogs 300B has the reputation to be the best 300B ever made, EAT's 300B seems to be excellent too, and Psvane ACME series is said to be up there if not better than the old greats. The value tho lies with Psvane's, Shuguangs and Electro Harmonix/Genalex's sub 300 dollar tubes - of which there are a plenty and almost all of them sound good.

I got a pair of 100$ Psvane 2A3C's and a pair of 350$ Genalex Golden Lions - both sound great on my amp, and neither was prohibitively expensive.

To say " It's just a light bulb, I don't understand why these suckers charge so much for a new production 300B tube..." is just an ignorant statement.
New production units are mostly hand made or semi hand made without whole empires backing production facilities for entire militarys and industries.

The prices are more then adequate for what they deliver in performance for such a niche market as ours and we are actually having a small renaissance in "big tube" production right now, good times to take the dive.
That's why we should'nt perpetuate "Big NOS" marketing myths - to keep the new ones alive.


----------



## cddc

I disagree that it is a marketing myth, unless audiophiles around the world are all tone deaf.

The best 300B tube is still the legendary WE 300B, no new production 300B even comes close.


----------



## Empyah (Oct 8, 2020)

cddc said:


> I disagree that it is a marketing myth, unless audiophiles around the world are all tone deaf.
> 
> The best 300B tube is still the legendary WE 300B, no new production 300B even comes close.


Yes it is, new production is just as good, and giant stocks of old tubes won't sell themselves... 
Plus you obviously have never read anything about the about ELROG 300B and (obviously tonedeaf) people who compared them more than favorably to the old WE.
Not to mention Sylvanas Acme or EAT's 300B.
You don't by any chance, own old NOS 300B's or are in any way involved in companys selling these for outrageous prices while trying to convnince us that tubes made 70 years later with new technologies can't be better?
Give me a screwing break dude...


----------



## Dubstep Girl

WE300B is on another level, absolutely a must on any 300B amplifier, otherwise might as well use another tube. I don’t find any new production 300B to sound anything like the originals, and that goes for almost every new production tube, we can’t replicate the knowledge, experience, and techniques used to make the NOS tubes then, the people that made them are all retired or passed and it isn’t financially feasible anymore to make a tube production good enough to make tubes like that anymore.


----------



## Roasty

Is there a driver tube that is comparable to the mullard ECC35? I find it is the only driver tube capable of giving "enough juice" to my 1266 and susvara (with ts5998/WE421a power tubes). 

Almost every other driver tube I have seems to not bring out the mids and bass with these two headphones. The end result with other tubes is recessed mids and lack in mid bass and warmth, and when trying to push up the volume to compensate, the highs become too dominant.


----------



## Empyah (Oct 17, 2020)

Dubstep Girl said:


> WE300B is on another level, absolutely a must on any 300B amplifier, otherwise might as well use another tube. I don’t find any new production 300B to sound anything like the originals, and that goes for almost every new production tube, we can’t replicate the knowledge, experience, and techniques used to make the NOS tubes then, the people that made them are all retired or passed and it isn’t financially feasible anymore to make a tube production good enough to make tubes like that anymore.



I dont't doubt that the WE300B is a fantastic, one of a kind tube that deserves it's unobtanium status.
But, have you heard the Elrog 300B's?
Don't mean to turn this into a d*ckwaving contest since I would obviously loose to your vast experience in the matter.
But I strongly believe that dismissing new production tubes benefits no one except NOS-hoarders.

I could not find anything negative about them and people(randos on the internet) seem to compare them very favourably to old stock, would
really interest me what you might think of them. Here is one good thread I found on them:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/elrog-300b-vs-takatsuki-300b-tubes


----------



## bpiotrow13

Going back to wa22, i have finally bought mine. It really looks impressive.  I got it with Jan Phillips 6080, GE 6sn7 and Chinese 5u4g. I find the sound too bright with my lcd3f. I can also hear a hum noise a bit. The Chinese 5u4g clearly deteriorated the sound. Since i put Sophia 274b the sound become much better. I am waiting for 6sn7 rytheon/tung sol/rca to do a tube roll a bit. I also bought rca 5u4gb.

i am going through a couple of threads here on tubes for wa22, but would appreciate any suggestions for warm sound set of tubes.


----------



## attmci (Oct 18, 2020)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Going back to wa22, i have finally bought mine. It really looks impressive.  I got it with Jan Phillips 6080, GE 6sn7 and Chinese 5u4g. I find the sound too bright with my lcd3f. I can also hear a hum noise a bit. The Chinese 5u4g clearly deteriorated the sound. Since i put Sophia 274b the sound become much better. I am waiting for 6sn7 rytheon/tung sol/rca to do a tube roll a bit. I also bought rca 5u4gb.
> 
> i am going through a couple of threads here on tubes for wa22, but would appreciate any suggestions for warm sound set of tubes.


Ecc35/33, 422A, 421A/5988/Bendix 6080wb/GEC 6AS7G

Sorry, you don't have too many choices.


----------



## davehg

The Langrex 5AU4 was recommended as a cost-effective substitute for the pricey Sophia 274. I like these on my WA22. Using RCA black plates for the 6SN7 and Mullard 6080.


----------



## bpiotrow13

attmci said:


> Ecc35/33, 422A, 421A/5988/Bendix 6080wb/GEC 6AS7G
> 
> Sorry, you don't have too many choices.



Thanks, these are mostly 6as7g substitutes. I think i have GEC 6as7 g, need to look for it. Can you recommend warm 6sn7?



davehg said:


> The Langrex 5AU4 was recommended as a cost-effective substitute for the pricey Sophia 274. I like these on my WA22. Using RCA black plates for the 6SN7 and Mullard 6080.



Thanks, i have managed to buy sophia with significant discount. I have ordered rca 6sn7, so will try. Is mullard 6080 warm? I have heard it is bright.


----------



## arftech

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, these are mostly 6as7g substitutes. I think i have GEC 6as7 g, need to look for it. Can you recommend warm 6sn7?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, i have managed to buy sophia with significant discount. I have ordered rca 6sn7, so will try. Is mullard 6080 warm? I have heard it is bright.



How is the performance of the amp?  Any issues?


----------



## bpiotrow13

arftech said:


> How is the performance of the amp?  Any issues?



No issues. A bit hum at the beggining, but i guess it is because of the tubes (unused). It is quiter now. I hope it will improve more, but it is acceptable even now.

I have bought the amp second hand, but it looks as almost unused.

Any particular reason you are asking about issues?


----------



## arftech

bpiotrow13 said:


> No issues. A bit hum at the beggining, but i guess it is because of the tubes (unused). It is quiter now. I hope it will improve more, but it is acceptable even now.
> 
> I have bought the amp second hand, but it looks as almost unused.
> 
> Any particular reason you are asking about issues?



A few threads back there was talk about the hum and the lack of support from Woo.

How are you liking how it sounds with your headphones?


----------



## bpiotrow13

arftech said:


> A few threads back there was talk about the hum and the lack of support from Woo.
> 
> How are you liking how it sounds with your headphones?



The hum is not loud and is quiter than at the beggining. Strange thing is that it is louder when you hear the amp itself, than over the headphones. I suspect the new tubes here and that it will improve. As mentioned i have bought the amp as used.

I have audeze lcd3f. The sound is good, but a bit too bright. I am looking for detailed but warm sound. This is why i am looking for the right tubes. I replaced the Chinese 5u4g with Sophia Princess which improved the sound much. I have a few pairs of 6as7g/6080, but need to wait for additional 6sn7 (i ordered rca/raython/tung sol).  In any case it is a pleasant process to tube roll a bit


----------



## attmci

Ecc33/35 is the driver tube. The 422 is the best rectifier tube for your amp.


----------



## bpiotrow13

attmci said:


> Ecc33/35 is the driver tube. The 422 is the best rectifier tube for your amp.



Thanks, 422 is a bit expensive though. I will stick to Sophia for now. I will have RCA 5u4gb shortly and will compare.


----------



## attmci

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, 422 is a bit expensive though. I will stick to Sophia for now. I will have RCA 5u4gb shortly and will compare.


It's very expensive. The attached is the best reference thread for the rectifier tubes. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## bpiotrow13

Thanks, a bit lenghty

Just one thought on 421. I see you are able to get much cheaper psvane acme 274b or Emission labs. I can not compare but suspect these are not much worse...


----------



## cddc

attmci said:


> It's very expensive. The attached is the best reference thread for the rectifier tubes.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/




Rectifier tubes is another deep pit for your money, some of them can be very expensive.

I still hold the belief (thou many would disagree) that we should go SS rectification in tube amps and not to waste money on rectifier tubes. I know rectifier tubes also have a significant impact on the tube amp sound, but the thing is the rectifier tube is not in the signal path, it only converts AC to DC in the amp. The sound difference from rectifier tubes is not caused by changing the audio signal directly, but rather possibly by changing the operating points of driver/power tubes in the circuit. If we can have an excellent SS rectification that ensures perfect operating points on the driver/power tubes, then the amp should sound as good.


----------



## bpiotrow13

I do not know if the amp with solid rectification would be as good. The rectfier tube is lighting so amaing


----------



## cddc

If you like the lighting, you can possibly add some LEDs under your tube sockets (as some folks did)


----------



## bpiotrow13

Cool how can you add it to Wa22?


----------



## cddc

Just find some blue LEDs, mount them beneath the tube sockets, and link them to some power sources internal or external.

But I guess it works best for these miniature glass tubes. Tubes with bakelite bases will block the LED light.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Just will stay with sophia or something similar. It is lightning amazingly.


----------



## attmci (Oct 18, 2020)

cddc said:


> Rectifier tubes is another deep pit for your money, some of them can be very expensive.
> 
> I still hold the belief (thou many would disagree) that we should go SS rectification in tube amps and not to waste money on rectifier tubes. I know rectifier tubes also have a significant impact on the tube amp sound, but the thing is the rectifier tube is not in the signal path, it only converts AC to DC in the amp. The sound difference from rectifier tubes is not caused by changing the audio signal directly, but rather possibly by changing the operating points of driver/power tubes in the circuit. If we can have an excellent SS rectification that ensures perfect operating points on the driver/power tubes, then the amp should sound as good.


I will leave it to @Dubstep Girl. LOL


----------



## attmci

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, a bit lenghty
> 
> Just one thought on 421. I see you are able to get much cheaper psvane acme 274b or Emission labs. I can not compare but suspect these are not much worse...


422. 421 is similar to the 5988 which is a power tube.


----------



## Roasty

The Sophia is a pretty decent rectifier. For the next step up, without spending a crazy amount, I find the EML 5u4g and Psvane 1:1 we274b replica are better sounding tubes. 

For warmer drivers, I quite like the RCA smoke glass 6sn7gt/vt231.


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Oct 19, 2020)

attmci said:


> 422. 421 is similar to the 5988 which is a power tube.



Right, i meant 422.



Roasty said:


> The Sophia is a pretty decent rectifier. For the next step up, without spending a crazy amount, I find the EML 5u4g and Psvane 1:1 we274b replica are better sounding tubes.
> 
> For warmer drivers, I quite like the RCA smoke glass 6sn7gt/vt231.



Thanks, I am waiting for rca 6sn7 to be delivered. Will see.

How are EML/Psvane as compared to Sophia? The link above says EML is warmer. I have not found much info on Psvane, but had no time to go through the whole thread.

Wa 22 surprised me with a bit bright sound as opposed to my previous OTL amp. Maybe this is subjective, but i am looking for warmer/darker sound. My lcd3f are not


----------



## Roasty

bpiotrow13 said:


> Right, i meant 422.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I actually found the Sophia a bit harsher on top than the eml/psvane. Psvane is in the warmer side, and sounds overall more balanced than EML.


----------



## attmci (Oct 19, 2020)

bpiotrow13 said:


> Right, i meant 422.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you tried your GEC 6as7g with the amp? Do you have a Sittard GZ34?  You may want to stick with these tubes and then try different driver tubes. Everyone has their own preference.


----------



## bpiotrow13

attmci said:


> Have you tried your GEC 6as7g with the amp? Do you have a Sittard GZ34?  You may want to stick with these tubes and then try different driver tubes. Everyone has their own preference.



GE 6astga did not impressed me. I put RCA 6as7g, which seems to sound better. I do not have Sittard GZ34. Unfortunately i am still waiting for 6sn7 types to roll (it takes ages to ship from US to Europe sometimes), i only have GE for now. I hope rca 6sn7 or rca 6f8g will bring more more colour.

Generally i am quite surprised than my previous otl amp was much more colorful than wa22 with my lcd3f, although wa22 is obviously technically superior.


----------



## attmci (Oct 20, 2020)

bpiotrow13 said:


> GE 6astga did not impressed me. I put RCA 6as7g, which seems to sound better. I do not have Sittard GZ34. Unfortunately i am still waiting for 6sn7 types to roll (it takes ages to ship from US to Europe sometimes), i only have GE for now. I hope rca 6sn7 or rca 6f8g will bring more more colour.
> 
> Generally i am quite surprised than my previous otl amp was much more colorful than wa22 with my lcd3f, although wa22 is obviously technically superior.


GEC is not a GE. GZ34 can save you some $$.  Oh, not those reissued ones.

Without top tubes, the wa22 sounds pretty much as you discribed.

There is a 422 appeared in eBay today and sold for 400 plus shipping within seconds. I have to stop recommending tubes here. Otherwise the rich ppl will grab all those nice tubes.


----------



## bpiotrow13 (Oct 21, 2020)

attmci said:


> GEC is not a GE. GZ34 can save you some $$.  Oh, not those reissued ones.
> 
> Without top tubes, the wa22 sounds pretty much as you discribed.
> 
> There is a 422 appeared in eBay today and sold for 400 plus shipping within seconds. I have to stop recommending tubes here. Otherwise the rich ppl will grab all those nice tubes.



I was a bit disappointed at the beginning, but need to hold on for a while. I changed tubes into Sophia Princess/tung sol 6as7/RCA 6sn7gt black plates. It is much better, but i need to give tubes the time to burn in. I guess it is quite good setup and hope it will finally sound good with my lcd3f.

I will get Shuguang Treasure cv181z tomorrow and will also check.


----------



## bpiotrow13

My wa22 is burning in and the sound is improving significantly. Just started to wonder which version i have. It has preamp option in front, however the preamp out at the back is not availabe (only plug instead of out). Can anybody tell which version (1st or 2nd) it is? Not really important for me, but started to wonder.


----------



## moemoney

bpiotrow13 said:


> My wa22 is burning in and the sound is improving significantly. Just started to wonder which version i have. It has preamp option in front, however the preamp out at the back is not availabe (only plug instead of out). Can anybody tell which version (1st or 2nd) it is? Not really important for me, but started to wonder.


Can you please explain a little more what you mean here “(only plug instead of out).” Or if you don’t mind can you take a picture of it.


----------



## Roasty

If it's 2nd gen, it will say 2nd gen on the back of the unit.


----------



## bpiotrow13

moemoney said:


> Can you please explain a little more what you mean here “(only plug instead of out).” Or if you don’t mind can you take a picture of it.



Sure, thanks, below


----------



## bpiotrow13

Roasty said:


> If it's 2nd gen, it will say 2nd gen on the back of the unit.


It says nothing, i guess it is 1st gen than. Does not make a difference for me, just wanted to know.


----------



## moemoney

bpiotrow13 said:


> Sure, thanks, below


Looks to me to be a Ver.1


----------



## bpiotrow13

moemoney said:


> Looks to me to be a Ver.1


Seems so. Does not make any difference for me. Just wanted to know. Thanks.


----------



## moemoney

bpiotrow13 said:


> Sure, thanks, below


----------



## moemoney

New Kid on the block.


----------



## bpiotrow13

moemoney said:


> New Kid on the block.



Does not look like Wa22 

Could you describe sound differences?


----------



## grooveriders

bpiotrow13 said:


> Does not look like Wa22
> 
> Could you describe sound differences?


Looks like the WA 5-LE


moemoney said:


> New Kid on the block.


How does this do compared to the WA22/WA33 ? I am looking an amp for my HD800 and HE1000 v2, does it pair well with the amp?
thanks


----------



## bpiotrow13

The tubes in My wa22 are burning in. I am a bit surprised with the sound. It is not as tubey as i thought it might be. It is close in fact to my burson cv2. I wanted to have more tubey alternative to burson, now they sound close, which is very nice sound anyway. I use Sophia Princess,  Shuguang 181z and rca 6as7 setup. It is soft, but very vivid.

Apart from the sound wa22 looks awesome in the evening:


----------



## moemoney

bpiotrow13 said:


> Does not look like Wa22
> 
> Could you describe sound differences?


It’s hard for me to say I only have a few hours on it, but what you notice right off the top is it’s more textured for sure and Way more dynamic.


----------



## moemoney

grooveriders said:


> Looks like the WA 5-LE
> 
> How does this do compared to the WA22/WA33 ? I am looking an amp for my HD800 and HE1000 v2, does it pair well with the amp?
> thanks


I don’t have the 33 so I can’t speak on that one but I will say I liked it better than the wa22, you can tell that right away that it is different more dynamic and instruments and vocals have more texture. I do have the HEKse and this is a match made in heaven for them.


----------



## grooveriders

moemoney said:


> I don’t have the 33 so I can’t speak on that one but I will say I liked it better than the wa22, you can tell that right away that it is different more dynamic and instruments and vocals have more texture. I do have the HEKse and this is a match made in heaven for them.


Thankyou for the reply. Will run by the local dealer to get a try on those !


----------



## davehg

bpiotrow13 said:


> Thanks, these are mostly 6as7g substitutes. I think i have GEC 6as7 g, need to look for it. Can you recommend warm 6sn7?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, i have managed to buy sophia with significant discount. I have ordered rca 6sn7, so will try. Is mullard 6080 warm? I have heard it is bright.



I found it neutral - the 6080s seem to have the least impact, certainly not as much as the 5AU4 or the 6SN7


----------



## grokit (Oct 27, 2020)

I think that anyone who has shelled out big $ for the og WE300B is automatically going to defend it as worth the excessive premium, which is allegedly due to scarcity. It's an obvious example of what is known as post-purchase rationalization, also known as buyer’s stockholm syndrome. In a nut shell, this is when someone purchases a product or service, then proceeds to overlook any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase, so as not to have remorse. In this instance the fault is the inflated price.

From another Audiogon thread on the matter:

"I had been using Acme 300B for 10 months with satisfaction.
Since I have a vintage WE300B made in 1940’s, I had done comparison between them.
My conclusion is vintage WE300B has slightly more tight bass and wider soundstage but the difference is not big.
Acme 300B sounds slightly sweeter than vintage WE300B"

Obviously it's just one opinion out of many. It's the first one I found. I have no opinion on 300B tubes, and am wondering why we're discussing them here.
This particular opinion is from *shkong78**, *who has 1,107 posts. I suppose that makes shkong78 an _Audiogoneus Supremus_ (lol).

In my experience the WA22 is a good but not great headphone amp, that sounds much better as a preamp to another solid-state headphone and/or speaker amp. That's where it shines, as all it needs to do is provide pleasing euphonic distortion for another amp that does the heavy lifting for driving headphones. I think the output transformers may be the the weak link/reason for this, as they don't need to work as hard when used as a preamp as they do when driving an actual transducer load.


----------



## bpiotrow13

grokit said:


> In my experience the WA22 is a good but not great headphone amp, that sounds much better as a preamp to another solid-state headphone and/or speaker amp. That's where it shines, as all it needs to do is provide pleasing euphonic distortion for another amp that does the heavy lifting for driving headphones. I think the output transformers may be the the weak link/reason for this, as they don't need to work as hard when used as a preamp as they do when driving an actual transducer load



I would say it could be a great amp, but it is not that easy to choose the tubes right. It has no problem in driving my lcd3f. In fact i expected the wa22 to be more tubey. 

I am just trying to choose the right tubes. Not sure if anyone tried: Sophia 274b/rca 6sn7gt/svietlana 6n13s. It works quite fine for me.


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## grokit (Oct 29, 2020)

bpiotrow13 said:


> I would say it could be a great amp, but it is not that easy to choose the tubes right. It has no problem in driving my lcd3f. In fact i expected the wa22 to be more tubey.
> 
> I am just trying to choose the right tubes. Not sure if anyone tried: Sophia 274b/rca 6sn7gt/svietlana 6n13s. It works quite fine for me.


You're right, I should have said 'really' good at the very least. I just found my WA22 a lot more fussy with headphones than I do as a preamp.

I really like the tubes I finally settled with: shuguang treasures for the drivers, sylvania 7236 power tubes, and a usaf 690 with a fantastic adapter crafted by 2359glenn. I used to favor different tubes for different headphones and even music, then evolved to a combination that I felt worked the best with the most kind of headphones and music. I did all my tube rolling before I had it converted to a preamp. When I realized I was satisfied, I bought multiple back-ups for them and stopped rolling tubes.


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## cddc (Nov 1, 2020)

grokit said:


> *I think that anyone who has shelled out big $ for the og WE300B is automatically going to defend it as worth the excessive premium, which is allegedly due to scarcity. It's an obvious example of what is known as post-purchase rationalization, also known as buyer’s stockholm syndrome. In a nut shell, this is when someone purchases a product or service, then proceeds to overlook any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase, so as not to have remorse. In this instance the fault is the inflated price.*




LOL....well summarized, man!

And this happens quite often, especially in the mysterious tube world.

I recently spent weeks researching on how various testers work and how transconductances are calculated/measured, and finally proved that Western Electric 421A and Tung Sol 5998 are the same tube because they have the same internal construction and same transconductance (if measured under the same plate/grid voltages). But some "not-the-same-tube" believers still think their WE421A's sound better than TS 5998 (though some other tube veterans like Skylab and DubStepGirl think they sound the same) .

The proof - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/crack-bottlehead-otl.476650/post-15927789

I think those believers just want to justify the excessive premium they paid is worth it, as you said, or quite likely their sound perception is unconciously biased hinted by the higher price on WE 421A (as people tend to think expensive tubes sound better).


----------



## cddc

grokit said:


> You're right, I should have said 'really' good at the very least. I just found my WA22 a lot more fussy with headphones than I do as a preamp.
> 
> I really like the tubes I finally settled with: shuguang treasures for the drivers, sylvania 7236 power tubes, and a usaf 690 with a fantastic adapter crafted by 2359glenn. I used to favor different tubes for different headphones and even music, then evolved to a combination that I felt worked the best with the most kind of headphones and music. I did all my tube rolling before I had it converted to a preamp. When I realized I was satisfied, I bought multiple back-ups for them and stopped rolling tubes.




I'm a big fan of 7236 too


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## cddc

davehg said:


> I found it neutral - the 6080s seem to have the least impact, certainly not as much as the 5AU4 or the 6SN7




It can well be, as in WA22 the output transformers will have a significant impact on the power tubes.


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## grokit (Oct 30, 2020)

_Kind of an edit:_ I should probably clarify that I still have the _capacity_ to roll tubes, as I kept many of my favorite alternates around.
I don't have that many extras, but probably a few more than I need. I remember going in on a bulk order of the 596, but I sold off a couple.


----------



## attmci

bpiotrow13 said:


> Sure, thanks, below


You should use the alternative input.


----------



## bpiotrow13

attmci said:


> You should use the alternative input.



Thanks, i know that already totally different sound.


----------



## bpiotrow13

Just found an information on a different thread that Woo inserted conversion units to wa22 and the newWA22's are converting unbalanced input  to balanced from the viewpoint of the amp.

Does it mean that it does not matter if i connect the source to wa22 through rca or xlr? How can i tell which version of wa22 i have? I have v1, but seems not so old. Can i tell it by serial number?

I am still experimenting with my wa22. i have very basic dac (borrowerd from a friend) with xlr output and very good dacs with rca output. Wonder if i need to buy new dac with xlr output.


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## grokit (Nov 9, 2020)

@bpiotrow13
It sure sounds like you need to know which version you have.

I'm in kind of the same boat, as mine is a v.1 that Woo converted to preamp, before v.2 was released. Shortly before that, I had them convert the SE input to XLR/balanced. Basically I had the (v.1) unconverted SE input converted to a balanced one, shortly later they made it into a preamp for me. This was over 7 years ago.

IDK about when the v.2 was released, as I was away from the forums for a while.

It sounds to me like there may be a 50% 'power/performance' issue with the SE inputs on the v.1 units, while there's a slight 'fidelity/performance' issue from the transformer installed on the v.2 units to eliminate the 'power/performance' issue. Meaning maybe I got it right for once, when getting these upgrades done.

You might want to send Woo Audio your serial number, and see what they have to say.


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## grokit

grokit said:


> ...mine is a v.1 that Woo converted to preamp, before v.2 was released. Shortly before that, I had them convert the SE input to XLR/balanced. Basically I had the (v.1) unconverted SE input converted to a balanced one, shortly later they made it into a preamp for me. This was over 7 years ago.



Since then... my WA22 has seemed to develop an issue with the headamp, independant of the preamp function which is still working great. I'm still utilizing both balanced inputs, but have the flexibility for an SE one now. I've reached out to Woo, to see if they have any more info on what mine might be up to regarding these inputs, as well as a possible repair, or trade-in. I think I would prefer a repair, but I do wonder what would happen with a standard RCA to XLR cable going into what I have now.


----------



## njs170

Just picked one of these amps up. So far enjoying it. The stock tubes leave room for improvement in my opinion. Already swapped out the drivers with the Tung Sol 6SN7 and RCA 6SN7. I have the RCA 6SA7G Black plates and Sylvania 5Y3WGTA on their way to try out.


----------



## bpcans

Hello everybody. I recently bought a WA22 (2nd generation)  direct from Michael Liang at Woo Audio in NY. I hope finding this dedicated thread is gonna give me more information about my new favorite piece of hp gear. I installed the supplied Westinghouse 6080 power tubes, but I’m using a well broken in USAF 596 rectifier and grade A Sophia Electric 6SN7’s. Coming from a 1st gen WA6 this new amp is truly amazing. It’s like going from a Ford Fusion to driving a Cadillac STS with a big V8 under the hood.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Hello everybody. I recently bought a WA22 (2nd generation)  direct from Michael Liang at Woo Audio in NY. I hope finding this dedicated thread is gonna give me more information about my new favorite piece of hp gear. I installed the supplied Westinghouse 6080 power tubes, but I’m using a well broken in USAF 596 rectifier and grade A Sophia Electric 6SN7’s. Coming from a 1st gen WA6 this new amp is truly amazing. It’s like going from a Ford Fusion to driving a Cadillac STS with a big V8 under the hood.



Enjoy the new amp! 
Let me save you some trouble.. I went through the whole merry go round of tubes for this amp. Source some TS5998 power tubes! And if you can get Mullard ECC35 tubes, you'll be pretty much done.


----------



## bpcans (Nov 11, 2020)

Roasty said:


> Enjoy the new amp!
> Let me save you some trouble.. I went through the whole merry go round of tubes for this amp. Source some TS5998 power tubes! And if you can get Mullard ECC35 tubes, you'll be pretty much done.


Thanks for the heads up Roasty. I take it that the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes are a vast improvement over the supplied Westinghouse 6080’s? Are either the Mullards or the TS tubes outrageously expensive? https://wooaudio.com/tubes/tungsol-5998-pair Never mind Roasty, I found them. And yes they are crazy priced.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Thanks for the heads up Roasty. I take it that the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes are a vast improvement over the supplied Westinghouse 6080’s? Are either the Mullards or the TS tubes outrageously expensive?



TS5998/WE421a power tubes will leave the stock 6080 in the drawer forever. 
ECC35 are the best driver tubes I've heard with the wa22 hands down. 

Unfortunately, yes, both sets are pricey.. You can go about it both ways. Either spend money on a lot of other tubes, or just bite the bullet and get the ones I mentioned. 

I like them so much, I have a small stash of 4x 5998 and 4x WE421a, and 4x Mullard ECC35. 

I'm sure there are other recommendations out there. Have fun on the journey! U have a nice amp to play with and it'll bring your lots of enjoyment. I'm upgrading to a WA33 which is on the way, but will most likely keep the WA22 for a second rig.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> TS5998/WE421a power tubes will leave the stock 6080 in the drawer forever.
> ECC35 are the best driver tubes I've heard with the wa22 hands down. I'm upgrading to a WA33 which is on the way, but will most likely keep the WA22 for a second rig.


Roasty, I’ll see how much dough I’ve got left over for the TS5998’s after I get back from my thanksgiving vacation. Lol. I’ve really grown to love the sound of my Sophia 6SN7 driver’s because they compliment my Grado’s pretty well. What made you decide that the WA33 was what you needed?


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Roasty, I’ll see how much dough I’ve got left over for the TS5998’s after I get back from my thanksgiving vacation. Lol. I’ve really grown to love the sound of my Sophia 6SN7 driver’s because they compliment my Grado’s pretty well. What made you decide that the WA33 was what you needed?



I have the Susvara and TC Phi, so needed something that could drive both (to their full potential?). The concensus on the relevant threads is that the WA33 can do the job.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> I have the Susvara and TC Phi, so needed something that could drive both (to their full potential?). The concensus on the relevant threads is that the WA33 can do the job.


Roasty, those are two very nice hp’s indeed, and well deserving of a power source like the 33. Might your hp journey someday end with the HiFiMan Shangri-La headphone & amplifier system?


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Roasty, those are two very nice hp’s indeed, and well deserving of a power source like the 33. Might your hp journey someday end with the HiFiMan Shangri-La headphone & amplifier system?



Lol I'll let u know after I strike the lottery. Regardless, that amp aesthetic is an acquired taste...


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## bpcans

Roasty said:


> Lol I'll let u know after I strike the lottery. Regardless, that amp aesthetic is an acquired taste...


Roasty, have you heard the Focal Utopia hp's? I brought a pair home for a demo with my Chord Hugo TT2 dac/amp, and they sounded marvelous.


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## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Roasty, have you heard the Focal Utopia hp's? I brought a pair home for a demo with my Chord Hugo TT2 dac/amp, and they sounded marvelous.



Yep I have the Utopia. Glorious with the WA22.


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## bpcans

Roasty said:


> Yep I have the Utopia. Glorious with the WA22.


Do you think that they are the best $4K hp's on the market today?


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## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Do you think that they are the best $4K hp's on the market today?



Well, that's very subjective! I have not heard all the headphones out there, but I certainly do enjoy the utopia. I have also been told that the Utopia is even better performing with the Dna Stellaris; this was in my radar a while ago, but I dropped the thought after finding out it may not drive the TC or Susvara adequately. 

Also, 4k retail or paid price? Because I've also seen a few TC Phi and Susvara in that price range, albeit second hand market.


----------



## vonBaron

So if i want buy WA22 for my 1266 Phi it's a waste of money?


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## bpcans

vonBaron said:


> So if i want buy WA22 for my 1266 Phi it's a waste of money?


https://wooaudio.com/headphones/abyss Woo Audio lists three of their amplifiers for recommended use with the Abyss 1266 Phi TC hp’s.


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## grokit (Nov 22, 2020)

I decided to take advantage of the sale, as I can't trade in my og version WA22 for a new model. Evidently they don't consider this enough of an upgrade to qualify. I can still keep/use it, sell it, or trade up for a more expensive model. So it looks like I will have both WA22s for a while. I'm getting a black one this time.

My current WA22 works great, but it does have some quirks; both inputs are balanced/XLR, it needs a resistor plugged into the 1/4" jack in preamp mode, etc.


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## bpcans

grokit said:


> I can still keep/use it, sell it, or trade up for a more expensive model. So it looks like I will have both WA22s for a while. I'm getting a black one this time.
> 
> My current WA22 works great, but it does have some quirks; both inputs are balanced/XLR, it needs a resistor plugged into the 1/4" jack in preamp mode, etc.


grokit, there was no trade in available for my old WA6 when I bought the WA22 2nd gen. I thought about a WA5, but I just don’t have the room in our townhouse for one. I do really love the 22 though. It has a fantastic sound!


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## grokit (Dec 1, 2020)

bpcans said:


> grokit, there was no trade in available for my old WA6 when I bought the WA22 2nd gen. I thought about a WA5, but I just don’t have the room in our townhouse for one. I do really love the 22 though. It has a fantastic sound!


I agree, obviously if I bought another one lol. I would have liked one more input. But I already have a small collection of bottles for this thing, and I don't want to go through that again. I bought my v.1 second hand, but I also think the WA22 is a relative bargain in Woo's overall line up. I'm sure it was back in the v.1 days too.

I could leave the fold if my Liquid Lightning ever fails (knocks on head). I could replace both in one go with Woo's new 3ES Electrostatic Amp/Preamp. It actually uses some of the same glass as WA22. I could trade in my old WA22 on it. I would lose the dynamic headamp. It would still be sweet. But I'm in no hurry to do that if ever.


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## silversurfer616

vonBaron said:


> So if i want buy WA22 for my 1266 Phi it's a waste of money?


No, it’s not...have a WA22 and use the 2XLR stock cable with the 1266 PhiCC and it’s pretty good.


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## davehg

I think a used WA5 is the sweet spot. I’ve got a WA22 with upgraded Jupiter copper caps, and a Gen I WA5. The WA5 makes everything sound great with unbalanced sources and even stock tubes (though it benefits from better tubes). The WA22 only sounds great with balanced source and balanced headphone cables and it all but demands better tubes. I’ve kept toying with the idea of letting the WA22 go but now that I’ve got it sounding great I really struggle with the idea, and it is absolutely the best match with the HD650s.


----------



## moemoney

davehg said:


> I think a used WA5 is the sweet spot. I’ve got a WA22 with upgraded Jupiter copper caps, and a Gen I WA5. The WA5 makes everything sound great with unbalanced sources and even stock tubes (though it benefits from better tubes). The WA22 only sounds great with balanced source and balanced headphone cables and it all but demands better tubes. I’ve kept toying with the idea of letting the WA22 go but now that I’ve got it sounding great I really struggle with the idea, and it is absolutely the best match with the HD650s.


I came from a WA22 second generation to a WA5LE 2nd Ge. and I’m very happy with the sound of the WA5, it’s a big step up and I believe you can upgrade to better tubes with the 5 compared to the WA22. just IMHO.


----------



## davehg

moemoney said:


> I came from a WA22 second generation to a WA5LE 2nd Ge. and I’m very happy with the sound of the WA5, it’s a big step up and I believe you can upgrade to better tubes with the 5 compared to the WA22. just IMHO.


Mo,  I was able to reuse all the NOS 6SN7s and Sophia and Brimar 5AU4s I acquired for the WA22 with the WA5. But like you, still searching for the right 300b that won’t break the bank. The 6080s on the WA22 seem to have the least effect and the 6SN7s the most, whereas with the WA5 the 274b made a big difference and still experimenting with 300bs. Not certain the 6SN7 had as big of an impact on the WA5 as it did on the WA22. Currently running RCA black base 6SN7 on the WA5 and Sylvanias on the WA22.


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## moemoney (Dec 1, 2020)

davehg said:


> Mo,  I was able to reuse all the NOS 6SN7s and Sophia and Brimar 5AU4s I acquired for the WA22 with the WA5. But like you, still searching for the right 300b that won’t break the bank. The 6080s on the WA22 seem to have the least effect and the 6SN7s the most, whereas with the WA5 the 274b made a big difference and still experimenting with 300bs. Not certain the 6SN7 had as big of an impact on the WA5 as it did on the WA22. Currently running RCA black base 6SN7 on the WA5 and Sylvanias on the WA22.


I just purchase a pair of Sophia Electric Blue Glass 6SN7s to try out and they only have about 15 hours on them but they do have better range compared to my Hytron 6SN7, and are more open on top and deeper bass. But the Hytron’s seem to have dimensionality. But like I stated I need more time with the Blue Glass. Also picking up today a pair of Takatsuki 300bs so I may fall into that too many changes at one time syndrome to give a honest opinion about anything.


----------



## grooveriders

Hi guys Im looking to buy a second hand WA22 (probably Gen1). Do I have anything to worry or to check for, for a  5+years old WA22. Also do you know the rough median price for a 5-6 years old WA22 ? Lastly how much would it cost me replace all the 5 tubes (new tube or NOS, not looking for TOTL tubes but more budget friendly) ? Looking to Pair with my HD800 and HE1000 v2. Thanks!


----------



## davehg

grooveriders said:


> Hi guys Im looking to buy a second hand WA22 (probably Gen1). Do I have anything to worry or to check for, for a  5+years old WA22. Also do you know the rough median price for a 5-6 years old WA22 ? Lastly how much would it cost me replace all the 5 tubes (new tube or NOS, not looking for TOTL tubes but more budget friendly) ? Looking to Pair with my HD800 and HE1000 v2. Thanks!



I’m guessing $1200-1500. The Gen 2 was more of a feature upgrade (eg use as a preamp) and price increased $500. But the sonic character is close.

On tubes, cost varies widely. I’ve had great luck acquiring Brimar/Langrex 5AU4s for about $25-30, much less than Sophia 274s. The Mullard 6080s are similarly priced. I spend my money on NOS 6SN7 which can very widely in cost but which really change the sound. The new stuff is ok but the real gems are NOS and getting a bit harder to find and therefore spendy. I’m seeing $50-100+ for tubes that used to sell for half that cost.

That said, as finicky as the WA22 is compared to the rest of the Woo line (I owned the 6SE, and IWB the WA22 and WA5), once you get it nailed it truly is a terrific amp. But I’m a believer that if you are spending nearly the cost of a used WA22 in tubes, it is time to go up the food chain to a stock WA5.


----------



## grooveriders

davehg said:


> I’m guessing $1200-1500. The Gen 2 was more of a feature upgrade (eg use as a preamp) and price increased $500. But the sonic character is close.
> 
> On tubes, cost varies widely. I’ve had great luck acquiring Brimar/Langrex 5AU4s for about $25-30, much less than Sophia 274s. The Mullard 6080s are similarly priced. I spend my money on NOS 6SN7 which can very widely in cost but which really change the sound. The new stuff is ok but the real gems are NOS and getting a bit harder to find and therefore spendy. I’m seeing $50-100+ for tubes that used to sell for half that cost.
> 
> That said, as finicky as the WA22 is compared to the rest of the Woo line (I owned the 6SE, and IWB the WA22 and WA5), once you get it nailed it truly is a terrific amp. But I’m a believer that if you are spending nearly the cost of a used WA22 in tubes, it is time to go up the food chain to a stock WA5.


Thankyou for the reply. My current budget for an amp is only $1250 + $250 for tubes, The WA5-LE in my country costs $5,200 brand new so it is out of my budget (The WA22 is $2800). I have only tried the WA33 and it was amazing (got me iching for a woo audio tube amp since) but the price is out of reach for me so I will have to hunt for a second hand WA22.


----------



## davehg

A WA22 is a solid choice then. I also loved the WA33 but not enough to pony up.

another amp to consider in your price range is the Violetric 280 or 281. It has the power of the WA22 and not the expense of Tubes. Massdrop had a group buy for a decent price - under your budget. I hear only good things about it and would try one myself if I didn’t already have one too many headphone amps.

I use my WA5 as a speaker amp too, and it performs wonderfully driving Devore speakers which are sensitive enough for a lower power 400b amp.


----------



## grooveriders

davehg said:


> A WA22 is a solid choice then. I also loved the WA33 but not enough to pony up.
> 
> another amp to consider in your price range is the Violetric 280 or 281. It has the power of the WA22 and not the expense of Tubes. Massdrop had a group buy for a decent price - under your budget. I hear only good things about it and would try one myself if I didn’t already have one too many headphone amps.
> 
> I use my WA5 as a speaker amp too, and it performs wonderfully driving Devore speakers which are sensitive enough for a lower power 400b amp.


That was one of my options also until I stumbled upon the chinese clone (accurate a281) which some members in my headphone club said that it sounds exactly like the v281 (only $700 brand new) so I might get that sometime later. 
My main “itch” is the tube amp for now. Now I am using my topping A90 as a preamp for my massdrop cth as I am very desperate for a tube amp lol.


----------



## davehg (Dec 2, 2020)

Just a personal nit - I am not a fan of Chinese clones. It’s one thing to design and test and refine a piece of gear and perfect its build, and another to clone and offer a copy devoid of the expense of R&D. I’ve seen plenty of clones of gear like the EAR 834p and I’ve zero desire to support those, even if I save some bucks. Resale of that gear is terrible too. Not to say all Chinese built gear is sup par - my Lumin D2 is an example of top flight Chinese (Hong Kong) manufacturing and R&D and stellar customer support.

One reason I love Japanese hand made gear. Leben, Air Tight, Shindo and Luxman are jewel like pieces of gear that hold their value and remain enduring objects of desire.


----------



## cj3209

Roasty said:


> TS5998/WE421a power tubes will leave the stock 6080 in the drawer forever.
> ECC35 are the best driver tubes I've heard with the wa22 hands down.
> 
> Unfortunately, yes, both sets are pricey.. You can go about it both ways. Either spend money on a lot of other tubes, or just bite the bullet and get the ones I mentioned.
> ...


Just purchased a WA22 2gen.  What is the difference between ECC35 and ECC32 power tubes?  The Woo Manual states that the ECC32 is the recommended power tube upgrade?

thx in advance

CJ


----------



## Roasty

cj3209 said:


> Just purchased a WA22 2gen.  What is the difference between ECC35 and ECC32 power tubes?  The Woo Manual states that the ECC32 is the recommended power tube upgrade?
> 
> thx in advance
> 
> CJ



Hey! Sorry man I've not tried ecc32 tubes. They're driver tubes by the way. Perhaps someone else with info can chime in. I went with ecc35 based on recommendations and website reviews.


----------



## bpcans

Hey WA22 faithful. I just received a matched pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998 power tubes for my WA22 2nd generation amplifier. I replaced the 6080 stock tubes that came with my WA22 with the 5998’s, and the difference in sound quality was immediately apparent. More detail and instrument delineation for sure. Plus the whole presentation was quite a bit smoother and easier to listen to. As you can see I’m using a USAF 596 rectifier tube with 2 x Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes. The impact into my Focal Utopias was well worth the power tube upgrade IMO. Any impressions that others who have done this improvement would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## cj3209

bpcans said:


> Hey WA22 faithful. I just received a matched pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998 power tubes for my WA22 2nd generation amplifier. I replaced the 6080 stock tubes that came with my WA22 with the 5998’s, and the difference in sound quality was immediately apparent. More detail and instrument delineation for sure. Plus the whole presentation was quite a bit smoother and easier to listen to. As you can see I’m using a USAF 596 rectifier tube with 2 x Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes. The impact into my Focal Utopias was well worth the power tube upgrade IMO. Any impressions that others who have done this improvement would be greatly appreciated.


I got the USAF 596 rectifier tube upgrade as well.  Waiting for my silver WA22 to arrive and want to have a good listen for some time before splurging on the 5998s.


----------



## bpcans

cj3209 said:


> I got the USAF 596 rectifier tube upgrade as well.  Waiting for my silver WA22 to arrive and want to have a good listen for some time before splurging on the 5998s.


cj3209, Mike Liang at Woo makes sure that the stock tubes that he sends out with WA22 are dead quiet and will work perfectly with your new amp. That being said, a little tube rolling will not hurt the SQ or your new toy. I have and have tried a couple of different rectifier tubes in the past with my WA6, and the Sophia Princes 274b and the USAF 596 gave me the best results for a rectifier tube. Congratulations on your new amplifier! You won’t be disappointed.


----------



## cj3209

bpcans said:


> cj3209, Mike Liang at Woo makes sure that the stock tubes that he sends out with WA22 are dead quiet and will work perfectly with your new amp. That being said, a little tube rolling will not hurt the SQ or your new toy. I have and have tried a couple of different rectifier tubes in the past with my WA6, and the Sophia Princes 274b and the USAF 596 gave me the best results for a rectifier tube. Congratulations on your new amplifier! You won’t be disappointed.


Yes, Mike L. did recommend to me that the USAF 596 would be a good upgrade.

Cheers!

CJ


----------



## moemoney

cj3209 said:


> Yes, Mike L. did recommend to me that the USAF 596 would be a good upgrade.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> CJ




I Love my twins


----------



## cj3209 (Dec 11, 2020)

Once my WA22 comes in, I'm done with upgrading and will be taking a hiatus from head-fi.org.  It's time to just enjoy the music instead of chasing the 'white rabbit.'

Will hibernate with Adele, Peggy Lee, Nancy Wilson, Fleetwood Mac, Queen, ELO, Sara Bareilles, and Elle Fitzgerald among my other favs...

Cheers and hoping for a better 2021!

  

CJ


----------



## moemoney

cj3209 said:


> Once my WA22 comes in, I'm done with upgrading and will be taking a hiatus from head-fi.org.  It's time to just enjoy the music instead of chasing the 'white rabbit.'
> 
> Will hibernate with Adele, Peggy Lee, Nancy Wilson, Fleetwood Mac, Queen, ELO, Sara Bareilles, and Elle Fitzgerald among my other favs...
> 
> ...


Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> Enjoy the new amp!
> Let me save you some trouble.. I went through the whole merry go round of tubes for this amp. Source some TS5998 power tubes! And if you can get Mullard ECC35 tubes, you'll be pretty much done.


Roasty, I was able to track down a pair of NOS Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, and I can readily say that they are more open and spacious sounding than the stock 6080’s that came with my 2nd gen WA22. More powerful too.


----------



## davehg

cj3209 said:


> Once my WA22 comes in, I'm done with upgrading and will be taking a hiatus from head-fi.org.  It's time to just enjoy the music instead of chasing the 'white rabbit.'
> Cheers and hoping for a better 2021!



I am sure you know this but if not - the WA22 really excels when using as a fully balanced amp - meaning using a source with balanced outputs and headphones using balanced cables.

When I’ve used an unbalanced source - even the same source but with RCA cables instead of the XLRs, it was less enjoyable. Same with with headphones. When I first got the HD650 balanced cables (Cardas Clear, cost as much as the headphones!) and ran my Sony HAPZ1ES using XLRs, I finally understood what all the fuss was about with the WA22.

so if you’re not running the WA22 fully balanced you’re not quite done.


----------



## Pomps

Hello guys,

just received my wa22. Fantastic SQ, but alas... hum.... a lot of it... is this normal? Faulty device/bad disign or something else. I would appriciate your answers?


----------



## njs170

Pomps said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> just received my wa22. Fantastic SQ, but alas... hum.... a lot of it... is this normal? Faulty device/bad disign or something else. I would appriciate your answers?



I have a pair of tubes that will do that. I just switched them out and the hum was gone.


----------



## UntilThen

Quiet as a whisper and still lovely compared with other tube amps I've owned.


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> Quiet as a whisper and still lovely compared with other tube amps I've owned.


Very nice setup UntilThen! What kind of tubes are you running in that bad boy?


----------



## UntilThen

bpcans said:


> Very nice setup UntilThen! What kind of tubes are you running in that bad boy?



Thank you bpcans.   Over the years, I learned that the nicer setup for photos are just a tube amp and a headphone. You can add a dac too in the photo if it fits. However hey if it doesn't sound good, it didn't matter how good it looks but this setup does sound good. This transformer coupled Woo amp does sound good and despite all I hear from a scatter of people who says that their amp plus tubes hum, mine doesn't. I really sympathise for them.

Now this is another setup which I think sound nice and looks good. Yggdrasil > Glenn OTL amp > HD800. If you can fit it in the picture without it being too clattered then it will work. Same goes for the music.   


Alright back to your question. The tubes in my WA22 are Ken Rad 6SN7gt black glass, GEC 6080 and Cossor 53KU. Simple and effective. Very nice combination. Some other power tubes which I like and which doesn't mean selling the family pet are Tung Sol 5998 and Mullard 6080. I do have GEC 6as7g and GEC U52 rectifier but I don't want to harp on them or over emphasize them. Some view them as the holy grail, the president or the king but as far as I'm concerned they are just another brand. No point in inflating their price anymore.


----------



## njs170

Finally upgraded my DAC (SMSL SU-9) to a balanced connection. This amp just keeps getting better! Can't believe what I was missing.


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> Thank you bpcans.   Over the years, I learned that the nicer setup for photos are just a tube amp and a headphone. You can add a dac too in the photo if it fits. However hey if it doesn't sound good, it didn't matter how good it looks but this setup does sound good. This transformer coupled Woo amp does sound good and despite all I hear from a scatter of people who says that their amp plus tubes hum, mine doesn't. I really sympathise for them.
> 
> Now this is another setup which I think sound nice and looks good. Yggdrasil > Glenn OTL amp > HD800. If you can fit it in the picture without it being too clattered then it will work. Same goes for the music.
> 
> ...


In my WA22 2nd gen I'm running NOS Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers, and a USAF 596 rectifier. With this combo I rarely get past ten o'clock on the volume pot owing a lot to the sensitivity of my Focal Utopia hp's, and the strength of the WA22. What kind of amp do you have your Sennheiser HD800's plugged into?


----------



## UntilThen

bpcans said:


> In my WA22 2nd gen I'm running NOS Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers, and a USAF 596 rectifier. With this combo I rarely get past ten o'clock on the volume pot owing a lot to the sensitivity of my Focal Utopia hp's, and the strength of the WA22. What kind of amp do you have your Sennheiser HD800's plugged into?



It's a Glenn OTL amp. You'll get more info on the Glenn thread.


----------



## UntilThen (Jan 1, 2021)

StarlightDawn said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I'm very new to the world of audio (a year in), and I currently have the Verite Open + Tia Trio connected to the Questyle CMA 400i. I feel like I'm not listening to the Verite's fullest potential.. so I have been thinking of upgrading the 400i to the CMA Twelve Master, although the idea of having a seperate Amp + DAC intrigues me. I am quite interested in the WA22, HA-6A, and Manley Absolute. The problem I am facing is that most of the reviews are positive, but the moment I look up what the community are saying it tends to be negative. Since I'm located in Indonesia, there isn't any demo units around here.. so it makes things much harder since it will be a blindbuy. Maybe you guys could point me to the right direction?
> 
> Cheers!



I'm very late in replying to this but I will. As usual, it's my opinion. I have just gotten the Questyle CMA 12. I know that it sucks in some parts of the world for service and support but where I am, my retailer has the full support from the distributor. It's a 2 years warranty. 

I post this on another forum so I'll just re-post it here.


I'm ready to post my impressions of Questyle CMA Twelve.

As a standalone dac/preamp/amp, I've not heard better. There will be better dac/amp or separates combination but you don't need better because better is already here for not more silly money. 😁

For a solid state, it is actually quite musical because it's not your clinical, soulless amp. I'd venture to say that it has a slight tube tone. 🙂
However it is also very neutral without being sibilant. Brings out the best in your headphones, especially with my Hekse, HD800, LCD-X. Should be good with the LCD-3f but that is still with Minidisc for new yoke, headband and earpads replacements.

As good as the CMA 12 is, I do prefer it as a dac into my WA22, driving my headphones (Hekse, HD800, LCD-3f, LCD-X). With the WA22, musical notes are wrapped tightly in tiny air bubbles that float in space and creates an amazing 3d effect. It reduces any hardness from the tone and it's not a softy. With the Tung Sol 5998 tubes in it, it packs a solid punch with great dynamics.

That said, if I didn't hear the WA22 in the chain, I could live with the Questyle and be totally happy with it.

Better amps there will be but I don't think you need to spend more because at this level, you can see Nirvana already. 😝


----------



## UntilThen

Woo Audio Wa22 just has a bit more company in the Violectric v280, Questyle CMA Twelve and SMSL SP200 THX AAA 888. Headphones are Hekse, LCD-X and HD800 not in the picture. In terms of sound signature, they are all different. The degree of organic, natural sounding and relax feeling to neutral, leaner, brighter, clearer, hear every note is in the order they are laid out in the picture, from left to right.

I'm just enjoying myself. So much variations here.


----------



## davehg

Not having heard a Violectric I had this impression it had some warmth from earlier reviews. Is that not true? Were you using the same DAC or was the Violectric‘s optional DAC used?

i have never thought of the WA22 as particularly warm sounding for a tube amp; more neutral than my WA5 or previous WA6SE. Tubes clearly make a big difference in its sound. My WA22 also sports Jupiter copper caps, which are more neutral and dynamic too.


----------



## UntilThen

davehg said:


> Not having heard a Violectric I had this impression it had some warmth from earlier reviews. Is that not true? Were you using the same DAC or was the Violectric‘s optional DAC used?
> 
> I have never thought of the WA22 as particularly warm sounding for a tube amp; more neutral than my WA5 or previous WA6SE. Tubes clearly make a big difference in its sound. My WA22 also sports Jupiter copper caps, which are more neutral and dynamic too.



It's all relative when you compare 4 amps which is what I have there and I did not say that the v280 is not warm. It is not as warm as the Wa22. Taken by itself, I've never felt that the Wa22 is very warm too. Slightly warm is what I regard it as but never neutral. In this line up, the SP200 is neutral. No coloration at all. Next is the Questyle CMA 12 which is more neutral / very slight warm. Next is the v280, which almost have that tube tone. Very nice ! However it's tighter and more energetic than the Wa22. Last is the Wa22.

Now if I compare my Wa22 with my previous Studio Six and Glenn OTL amp, then I won't consider the Wa22 as the warmest. In fact it felt the least warm amongst the 3 but only just. All of those 3 tube amps are just gorgeous with lovely tube tones.

So it's always relative to what amps you're comparing it to.

Here's a pic when I had Wa22, Studio Six and Glenn OTL amp all together.


----------



## UntilThen

If I include the Ultrasonic Studio Oblivion into the 3 tube amps comparisons, then the Oblivion is the least warm. It has only a very slight tube tone. It's a hybrid with tube in the input stage. It's very clear, almost neutral, details galore, airy and an amazingly wide soundstage. I like it. Has a high and low impedance switch and speakers output banana jacks behind.

Here's the Oblivion, Studio Six together. The other amps have to be moved. There's just 4 slots there. The bottom rack is my Redgum Rgi120enr integrated amp for driving my Axis Voicebox S monitors.


----------



## davehg

I agree the WA22 is not on the overly warm side compared to my WA5.

Pix of my WA5 which can easily and beautifully drive my Devore speakers.


----------



## UntilThen

Yes I've heard the WA5LE against the Glenn OTL amp in the comfort of my own home. I know how WA5LE sound with Takatsuki 300b tubes and good drivers and rectifiers. I rather not get into speakers because I'll talk to no end then.


----------



## cj3209

UntilThen said:


> Yes I've heard the WA5LE against the Glenn OTL amp in the comfort of my own home. I know how WA5LE sound with Takatsuki 300b tubes and good drivers and rectifiers. I rather not get into speakers because I'll talk to no end then.


That's a gorgeous pic of tubes.  Must good awesome at night...lol...


----------



## bpiotrow13

UntilThen said:


> Yes I've heard the WA5LE against the Glenn OTL amp in the comfort of my own home. I know how WA5LE sound with Takatsuki 300b tubes and good drivers and rectifiers. I rather not get into speakers because I'll talk to no end then.


Pls share some thoughts againt wa22


----------



## UntilThen

cj3209 said:


> That's a gorgeous pic of tubes.  Must good awesome at night...lol...



You have no idea... it's better than Harlem's nights.    

Unfortunately I did not capture Wa5LE with time exposures in low light. It would be a knockout.


----------



## cj3209

UntilThen said:


> You have no idea... it's better than Harlem's nights.
> 
> Unfortunately I did not capture Wa5LE with time exposures in low light. It would be a knockout.



Audio Tube Porn...


----------



## UntilThen

bpiotrow13 said:


> Pls share some thoughts againt wa22



I don't have Glenn OTL and WA5LE now. Sold off GOTL and return the WA5LE to my friend who kindly loan it to me for 2 solids weeks. I did nothing in the 2 weeks when I was on leave but just listen to my headphones with these 2 tube amps. I had the GOTL for 2 years. That 2 weeks is imprinted in my brain and I will never forget how those 2 amps sound with those tubes.

I told the LCD-X thread that I will give impressions of the LCD-X with Wa22, v280, CMA12 and SMSL SP200. So it will be a while before I come back here to talk about Wa22, GOTL and WA5LE. Just very quickly, I can say they are very different in presentation SQ wise. 3 astonishing tube amps. Then the Studio Six and Oblivion came into my life.... and I'm thinking of a DNA Stratus later this year and of course drooling over the Auris Nirvana. I'm addicted to tube amps but I'm starting to love solid states. It's a dangerous hobby.


----------



## UntilThen

This afternoon, SPL Phonitor X and Schiit Mjolnir 2 join my amps stable for me to test with my gear.


----------



## bpiotrow13

UntilThen said:


> This afternoon, SPL Phonitor X and Schiit Mjolnir 2 join my amps stable for me to test with my gear.


Nice! I am especially curious about Your view on Schiit.


----------



## UntilThen

Have a look at the LCD-X thread. That's where I will be posting my impressions of He1000se, HD800, LCD-3f and LCD-X with those amps. I can't post on multiple threads.  

Of course the Wa22 will be compared with the other amps.


----------



## bpiotrow13

UntilThen said:


> Have a look at the LCD-X thread. That's where I will be posting my impressions of He1000se, HD800, LCD-3f and LCD-X with those amps. I can't post on multiple threads.
> 
> Of course the Wa22 will be compared with the other amps.


Cool, i have sold lcd 3 f and bought Meze Empyrean. I am looking for a suitable amp. Wa22 could be good but i am not so convinced to balanced mode this is why i am looking.


----------



## UntilThen

Why are you not convinced about balanced mode? If an amp is design for balance then it will be beautifully balanced. If it is design for Se, then it will be SE beautiful. This is common knowledge. One is not better than the other. It's in the implementation and how the designer/engineer plan it. They have the technical know how. I don't. I just listen to both balance and se amps and I know they are both beautiful sounding. 

I have not heard the Empyrean but my guess is that it needs a less warm amp. One that is more skew towards neutral would be good. The SPL Phonitor X that I heard today would be great for it.


----------



## bpiotrow13

UntilThen said:


> Why are you not convinced about balanced mode? If an amp is design for balance then it will be beautifully balanced. If it is design for Se, then it will be SE beautiful. This is common knowledge. One is not better than the other. It's in the implementation and how the designer/engineer plan it. They have the technical know how. I don't. I just listen to both balance and se amps and I know they are both beautiful sounding.
> 
> I have not heard the Empyrean but my guess is that it needs a less warm amp. One that is more skew towards neutral would be good. The SPL Phonitor X that I heard today would be great for it.


Fully agree. Both balanced and SE could sound good so no real benefit in going balanced for me. I do not have a balanced dac (i have MHDT Orchid) so buying balanced amp means i need balanced dac as well. 

Meze do need less warm amp. I am considering feliks euforia (praised with meze) or woo wa6se, the latter seems a bit lower SQ though. I have not decided yet, this is why i am interested in all options


----------



## UntilThen

This morning's combo and there's still a lot of love for the Wa22.


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> This morning's combo and there's still a lot of love for the Wa22.


Great setup UntilThen! What tubes are you using in your WA22? Are those Tung Sol 5998 power tubes per chance?


----------



## UntilThen

Thanks @bpcans yes those are my NOS Tung Sol 5998, literally brand new when I got it in 2017 and use sparingly. Rectifier is the Cossor 53ku and drivers are just Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top.


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> Thanks @bpcans yes those are my NOS Tung Sol 5998, literally brand new when I got it in 2017 and use sparingly. Rectifier is the Cossor 53ku and drivers are just Sylvania 6sn7gtb chrome top.


UntilThen, I bet that combination sounds pretty good. I found a “matched pair” that were supposedly NOS on eBay for a lot less then what Woo Audio charges. To me they sound much better than the stock Sylvania 6080 power tubes. I had the USAF 596 rectifier and the Sophia Electric 6SN7 tubes in my WA6 for years before I got the WA22, then I just put them right in the new amp because they sound fantastic.


----------



## UntilThen

The 596 rectifier is a work of art. Stock tubes can’t beat better tubes much less with 5998. I have Bendix 6080, GEC 6as7g and 6080. Also Tung Sol 7236. I also have GEC U52 rectifier. One of the best on WA22.

Also try dual 6bx7gt with an adapter in each of the power slots. These are my favourites when I run 6 x 6bx7gt in the Glenn OTL amp.


----------



## UntilThen

I even debated buying a new WA22 Gen 2 because I like my Gen 1 a lot. A black version would be nice.


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> I even debated buying a new WA22 Gen 2 because I like my Gen 1 a lot. A black version would be nice.


UntilThen, I just got this WA22 a few months ago and I think it’s a really great desktop hp amplifier. But I’d also like the WA33 as my endgame. I think I’ll stop spending money on audio gear and buy my family a house instead. 😊


----------



## UntilThen

@bpcans you will have your house, everything for your family and a WA33 with Susvara. I can see your future.  

As for me, I've been there and done that and now it's time for some toys.  At the moment, am listening to music with Hekse with Violectric v280 and it's good !


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> @bpcans you will have your house, everything for your family and a WA33 with Susvara. I can see your future.
> 
> As for me, I've been there and done that and now it's time for some toys.  At the moment, am listening to music with Hekse with Violectric v280 and it's good !


Thanks UntilThen. It’ll all work itself out. Have you tried the Susvara’s and the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s? I just saw on the Woo Audio website that my Focal Utopia’s have gone up $401 to the astronomical list price of $4,400. Ooh wee! That’s a lot of bananas.


----------



## UntilThen

bpcans said:


> Thanks UntilThen. It’ll all work itself out. *Have you tried the Susvara’s and the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s?* I just saw on the Woo Audio website that my Focal Utopia’s have gone up $401 to the astronomical list price of $4,400. Ooh wee! That’s a lot of bananas.



It seems I have to repeat this on multiple threads but I'll repeat it for you. 

I've heard the Abyss ab 1266 phi not the TC version - at a local meet 3 years ago - with my Yggdrasil and Ragnarok and then with my friend's WA5LE at the same meet.

Heard Susvara at the Sydney HiFi show in 2017 with WA33 at the Addicted To Audio stand. Love that. Also heard Susvara in a very nice setup only 2 weeks ago where I spend 2 hours auditioning it at Minidisc - a downtown head-fi shop. Some pictures and some commentary in this post that I make...
     Post #366 of 443    

Am I in a hurry to dive into the expensive deep end? No because I'm still enjoying my setup of CMA 12 dac > Violectric v280 > Hekse tonight. These gear were only bought on New Year's Eve. I don't believe in rushing through my gear. There will be a time for everything.


----------



## grokit

bpcans said:


> I just saw on the Woo Audio website that my Focal Utopia’s have gone up $401 to the astronomical list price of $4,400. Ooh wee! That’s a lot of bananas.


That's just the "Deluxe" setup with the case and various speaker-like cables, to make the package more in line with Stellia/Clear etc. for an extra $400
I think the standard 1/4" OFC cable is of higher quality, but it's nice to have a balanced one. It says this lower in the listing:

*Standard Package:* 10ft (3m) OFC cable (1 x Neutrik® 01/4“ (6,35mm) stereo Jack Neutrik® 2 x shielded 03⁄8“ (9.5mm) Lemo® connectors with self-locking bayonet system)
*Deluxe Package:* carrying case and two cables (instead of one): the first cable will be a 3m symmetric one, with a 4-pin XLR connector, and the other one a 1.2m cable with a mini-jack connector, and a 6.35mm Jack adaptor.


----------



## lawshredpower

Hey everyone,

just swapped the stock 6080’s for a matched quad 6BL7GTA. Wow that’s a huge difference! Less boomy, tighter low end and those sparkly highs I enjoy so much. Now the WA22 sounds so much better and just the way I like it.

I’m buying a U52 recto next. Any recommendations for the 6SN7 replacement? I like it tight and analytical.


----------



## bpcans

lawshredpower said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> just swapped the stock 6080’s for a matched quad 6BL7GTA. Wow that’s a huge difference! Less boomy, tighter low end and those sparkly highs I enjoy so much. Now the WA22 sounds so much better and just the way I like it.
> 
> I’m buying a U52 recto next. Any recommendations for the 6SN7 replacement? I like it tight and analytical.


lawshredpower, I’m using Tung Sol 5998’s as my power tubes that replaced the stock 6080’s. Much better sound and definition. For driver tubes I like my Sophia Electric 6SN7’s, but ECC35’s will also work well. Check the Woo tube compatibility charts for more options.


----------



## njs170

I am surprised the better tubes let the amp run cooler. My amp would heat up my room like no other with the stock tubes. Not anymore.


----------



## lawshredpower

bpcans said:


> lawshredpower, I’m using Tung Sol 5998’s as my power tubes that replaced the stock 6080’s. Much better sound and definition. For driver tubes I like my Sophia Electric 6SN7’s, but ECC35’s will also work well. Check the Woo tube compatibility charts for more options.



ECC35’s are quite pricey aren’t they?
I’ve seen the chart but I’m looking for personal experiences. What changed when you upgraded to the sophias?


----------



## bpcans

lawshredpower said:


> ECC35’s are quite pricey aren’t they?
> I’ve seen the chart but I’m looking for personal experiences. What changed when you upgraded to the sophias?


lawshredpower, yes the ECC35 tubes if they’re NOS, matched, and new, can be a tad pricey indeed. But good tubes really do make a huge difference in how your amp will sound depending on what type of headphones that you’re using, and how picky you are about what kind of SQ you’d like to achieve.


----------



## George Hincapie

Out of curiosity, have any of you had the opportunity to compare the WA22 to the LDA MZ3? If so, what were your conclusions?


----------



## bpcans

George Hincapie said:


> Out of curiosity, have any of you had the opportunity to compare the WA22 to the LDA MZ3? If so, what were your conclusions?


No I have not unfortunately.


----------



## hmscott (Feb 4, 2021)

Badas said:


> It’s easy peasy mate.
> 
> DAC into V281 (balanced or not), V281 balanced into WA22.
> Switch from head to line on the V281 when using it as a pre-amp for WA22.
> ...


Did you swap cables and compare DAC direct to WA22 vs DAC => V281 => WA22?  Any difference in the sound going through the extra V281 AMP vs direct to the WA22?

I ask because I'm going to do the same thing with DAC D90 MQA => A90 => Xduoo TA-20 Tube/SS headphone amp => headphones, with the ability to plug in the headphones into the A90 in HPA mode (as opposed to Pre mode), there is a switch to switch from Off=>HPA=>Pre.

I'm looking at upgrading the TA-20 to a Woo Audio long term, what would be a good entry balanced headphone model, or even a nice low wattage 10w-25w regular Woo Audio speaker amp - I have a Hifiman HE-Adapter coming to use with a Hifiman/Adorama HE6SE V2.

Thank you!


----------



## UntilThen

lawshredpower said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> *just swapped the stock 6080’s for a matched quad 6BL7GTA. Wow that’s a huge difference! Less boomy, tighter low end and those sparkly highs I enjoy so much.* Now the WA22 sounds so much better and just the way I like it.
> 
> I’m buying a U52 recto next. Any recommendations for the 6SN7 replacement? I like it tight and analytical.



Correct, quad 6BL7gta/gt or 6BX7gt in the Wa22 is very good. As good as TS 5998 but with a different take. However I don't like the DIY look. That is why I ordered and live with a Glenn OTL amp with 6 x 6BL7 for 2 years while I still had the Wa22. In that time, I love the Glenn OTL so much more, I gave the Wa22 to my son to use. After 2 years I sold off the Glenn OTL and got my Wa22 back.

Someday I might get another designer to make me an amp using 6 x 6bx7/6bl7. If you think quad 6BL7 sound good, wait till you hear 6 x 6bl7. Maybe Woo Audio can make an amp that uses sextet 6bl7.


----------



## jay2406

If anyone is interested selling a WA22 in the UK please give me a message. Thanks.


----------



## grokit

bpcans said:


> For driver tubes I like my Sophia Electric 6SN7’s...


Do you have their 'blue tube triad' going? I just ordered another backup set of Shuguang Treasures, but then I noticed the Sophias and found out they are made to match up with their blue 274b rectifier tube, which I have in a drawer. I'm not quite ready to drop another $360+, but I'm definitely curious about how they all sound together.


----------



## bpcans

grokit said:


> Do you have their 'blue tube triad' going? I just ordered another backup set of Shuguang Treasures, but then I noticed the Sophias and found out they are made to match up with their blue 274b rectifier tube, which I have in a drawer. I'm not quite ready to drop another $360+, but I'm definitely curious about how they all sound together.


grokit, my Sophia 6SN7 driver tubes in my WA22 are the clear glass grade A matched ones that I’ve tried with the Sophia 274b Princess, but I thought that combination was too syrupy sounding for my taste. So instead I use a USAF 596 rectifier which gives a nice tightness to the bass and airiness to the highs.


----------



## grokit

bpcans said:


> grokit, my Sophia 6SN7 driver tubes in my WA22 are the clear glass grade A matched ones that I’ve tried with the Sophia 274b Princess, but I thought that combination was too syrupy sounding for my taste. So instead I use a USAF 596 rectifier which gives a nice tightness to the bass and airiness to the highs.


Yeah I put that blue 274b in the drawer just as soon as I relocated my 596 tube(s). Nothing wrong with it with the Shuguangs, but the 596 is still my favorite rectifier.


----------



## Laines

Hello,
I now had my wa 22 gen 2 for a while (stock tubes). With the Aeon 2 and Fostex t50 the Amp is dead quiet. I now tried the HD6xx and and Harmonicdyne Zeus and I get a very present hummm, both in LO and HI mode.

Is this normal?


----------



## lawshredpower

Laines said:


> Hello,
> I now had my wa 22 gen 2 for a while (stock tubes). With the Aeon 2 and Fostex t50 the Amp is dead quiet. I now tried the HD6xx and and Harmonicdyne Zeus and I get a very present hummm, both in LO and HI mode.
> 
> Is this normal?



Hum, hiss ou rf interference?

Some headphones are more sensitive than others. A bit of hum is normal and hum can change depending on the tubes.


----------



## lawshredpower

Hey, everyone. Sharing my new tube rolling experience.


Today I replaced the stock 6SN7 for a matched pair of Sylania VT-99 (ie 6F8G). 

I gotta I say tube rolling is a must when it comes to the WA22. 

One of the stock 6SN7 was giving me some nasty RF interference. The new ones solved that, phew.

I gotta say sound wise the power tubes made a bigger difference, but still there's an improvement on the highs and mids. Sounding more airy. I'm not a warm sound kind of guy, so I'm happy with the present but subtle improvement.

One thing I've noticed: with the stock 6SN7s, changing between HI and LO modes barely made any difference, only highlighted the RF noise and a little bit more of tube hum. Now with the VT-99s both modes have a huge difference in volume, but a little bit more of tube hum as well. Let's see if that background hum fades more putting some good hours into the tubes.

So now all that's left is the stock rectifier tube, soon to be replaced by an U52.

I am not a tube amp guy but I've been thoroughly enjoying the WA22. Sounds great and the tube rolling adventures are fun. I recommend everyone to upgrade tubes if you haven't done yet!


----------



## bpcans

lawshredpower said:


> Hey, everyone. Sharing my new tube rolling experience.
> 
> 
> Today I replaced the stock 6SN7 for a matched pair of Sylania VT-99 (ie 6F8G).
> ...


lawshredpower, please what are those double power tubes in your WA22 that you’re using? I’m using Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, with Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers, and a USAF 596 rectifier, which I’ve really enjoyed. Thnx


----------



## lawshredpower

bpcans said:


> lawshredpower, please what are those double power tubes in your WA22 that you’re using? I’m using Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, with Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers, and a USAF 596 rectifier, which I’ve really enjoyed. Thnx



Nice! I’ve searched for a USAF 596 for myself but those are hard to come by it seems. Friend of mine gave me a nice deal on his U52 so I could not pass that. I’ll try the USAF when I can.

I’m using a quad matched GE 6BL7GTA. Did wonders to my setup! Lowered the hum compared to the stock power tubes and the sound... wow! Wider, faster, tighter, more analytical. Right on my alley. I’m starting to agree with the former owner: the stock tubes are merely to see the amp functions correctly lol

I’m still on the quest to achieve a dead silent background if I can. Some hum I don’t mind at all but total silent would be ideal.


----------



## Bard Rich

bpcans said:


> lawshredpower, please what are those double power tubes in your WA22 that you’re using? I’m using Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, with Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers, and a USAF 596 rectifier, which I’ve really enjoyed. Thnx


how sophia electric 6SN7 sound?


----------



## bpcans

Bard Rich said:


> how sophia electric 6SN7 sound?


They are very nice sounding indeed. They’re the best matched pair Sophia Electric made back when I bought them almost ten years ago.


----------



## CAJames

lawshredpower said:


> Nice! I’ve searched for a USAF 596 for myself but those are hard to come by it seems. Friend of mine gave me a nice deal on his U52 so I could not pass that. I’ll try the USAF when I can.
> 
> I’m using a quad matched GE 6BL7GTA. Did wonders to my setup! Lowered the hum compared to the stock power tubes and the sound... wow! Wider, faster, tighter, more analytical. Right on my alley. I’m starting to agree with the former owner: the stock tubes are merely to see the amp functions correctly lol
> 
> I’m still on the quest to achieve a dead silent background if I can. Some hum I don’t mind at all but total silent would be ideal.



That's interesting. For me the stock tubes were dead silent but kinda uninteresting. I went through a 6BX/L7 phase myself, I only used 1 per side and always had hum. Some worse than others but it was always there.  I guess I should get the adapter and try 2 per side. I also recall someone using 1 6BX/L7 and 1 6SN7 per side and liking it. That seems just weird enough to work.


----------



## cddc

CAJames said:


> That's interesting. For me the stock tubes were dead silent but kinda uninteresting. I went through a 6BX/L7 phase myself, I only used 1 per side and always had hum. Some worse than others but it was always there.  I guess I should get the adapter and try 2 per side. I also recall someone using 1 6BX/L7 and 1 6SN7 per side and liking it. That seems just weird enough to work.




IIRC, 6BL7/6BX7 were mainly used in vintage TVs, and they definitely had a tough life there, stayed on 24/7 often. So few of the 6BL7/6BX7 tubes on the market come with satisfying conditions, lots of them have hum or other issues.

I'd personally stay away from those tubes.


----------



## lawshredpower

CAJames said:


> That's interesting. For me the stock tubes were dead silent but kinda uninteresting. I went through a 6BX/L7 phase myself, I only used 1 per side and always had hum. Some worse than others but it was always there.  I guess I should get the adapter and try 2 per side. I also recall someone using 1 6BX/L7 and 1 6SN7 per side and liking it. That seems just weird enough to work.



Maybe that goes to show how much of a lottery tubes are, especially those stock ones. Not sure atm, merely speculation on my part. Let's see if rolling the stock recto tube will make a difference. My goal is pitch black background. Good to know it's achievable!


----------



## HiFiGuy528 (Mar 9, 2021)

keep in mind that changing the stock power tubes will change the specifications and the noise floor of the amplifier. Additionally, tubes sourced from online marketplaces may not be the highest quality or lowest noise. The tubes we offer on our website are carefully chosen and tested by us, backed by a min. of 30 days guarantee.


----------



## CAJames (Mar 9, 2021)

cddc said:


> IIRC, 6BL7/6BX7 were mainly used in vintage TVs, and they definitely had a tough life there, stayed on 24/7 often. So few of the 6BL7/6BX7 tubes on the market come with satisfying conditions, lots of them have hum or other issues.
> 
> I'd personally stay away from those tubes.



The thing is, modulo the hum, they are fantastic sounding tubes. And practically free compared to the "heritage" 5998s and the like. They do have a lot more gain than the "approved" power tubes, which may be good or bad depending on you headphones, and probably explains the hum to some degree. I didn't have any trouble finding plenty that looked and tested like new.


----------



## cddc

I read mixed reviews on the duo. When they were initially unearthed couple of years ago, lots of people went for it, even here in the wa22 thread, then some people liked them and some didn't, but eventually the fever after new discovery cooled down, and few people discuss them today, I think that tells something about the duo. If they were indeed good, they would have become some hot candidates by now. But they are not. The most I read about these tubes are that they are very noisy, hum often, and it's extremely challenging to find a quiet pair/quad.


----------



## cddc

2 possible reasons to explain why 6BX/L7 tubes are so noisy, that I can think of:

1) they were mainly used as vertical deflection tubes in old TV's, and definitely had a tough life there.
2) their gain of 10-14 is too high for the power tube job, for comparison, 6080/6AS7G have a gain of only 2, and 5998 is slightly higher at 5.5. A gain of 14 from 6BL7 is more suitable for the driver tube seat, like 6SN7 (gain=20).


----------



## cddc (Mar 10, 2021)

If people like the idea, I think they can even try 2 x 6SN7 or 3 x 6SN7 as a single power tube, why not...I'd like to hear how they sound 

At least 6SN7 was designed for audio use, and we don't have to worry about their being abused in TV's.


----------



## CAJames (Mar 10, 2021)

I don't think it is fair to say the 6SN7 (and its predecessors, I'm currently using the Type 37 in my WA22) was designed "for audio use." It was general purpose amplifier tube and used in almost everything, esp. radios but also telco and test equipment. And millions were used (and abused) in TVs and early computers as well. They were popular in "hifi" in the 50's and early 60's but that was a tiny fraction of the market, and they were replaced with noval tubes like the 6DJ8 and 12AU7, not because the they were better but because the smaller tubes were cheaper to make and use.

As for using them as power tubes, you can try but they don't put out much power. That was one of the intriguing things about the 6B_7s, for little tubes they put a bunch of watts, like 11 IIRC.


----------



## MIKELAP (Mar 10, 2021)

CAJames said:


> I don't think it is fair to say the 6SN7 (and its predecessors, I'm currently using the Type 37 in my WA22) was designed "for audio use." It was general purpose amplifier tube and used in almost everything, esp. radios but also telco and test equipment. And millions were used (and abused) in TVs and early computers as well. They were popular in "hifi" in the 50's and early 60's but that was a tiny fraction of the market, and they were replaced with noval tubes like the 6DJ8 and 12AU7, not because the they were better but because the smaller tubes were cheaper to make and use.
> 
> As for using them as power tubes, you can try but they don't put out much power. That was one of the intriguing things about the 6B_7s, for little tubes they put a bunch of watts, like 11 IIRC.


A picture of your type 37 tube  would be nice .Need an adapter for this tube ?Thanks


----------



## cddc (Mar 10, 2021)

Here you go, @MIKELAP  (pic from the bay)
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





It's a single triode, so you will need two. And, it's an old 5 pin style tube, so you'll need two 5-pin to octal adapters or one dual 5-pin to octal adapter.

There are just too many 6SN7 predecessors, you are going to get lost if you go down the predecessor road


----------



## cddc (Mar 10, 2021)

CAJames said:


> I don't think it is fair to say the 6SN7 (and its predecessors, I'm currently using the Type 37 in my WA22) was designed "for audio use." It was general purpose amplifier tube and used in almost everything, esp. radios but also telco and test equipment. And millions were used (and abused) in TVs and early computers as well. They were popular in "hifi" in the 50's and early 60's but that was a tiny fraction of the market, and they were replaced with noval tubes like the 6DJ8 and 12AU7, not because the they were better but because the smaller tubes were cheaper to make and use.
> 
> As for using them as power tubes, you can try but they don't put out much power. That was one of the intriguing things about the 6B_7s, for little tubes they put a bunch of watts, like 11 IIRC.




Yes, it's a little bit unfair to say 6SN7 was designed for audio use solely. It's a general purpose tube, but because of its linearity it was widely used as an audio tube from early on. I think tube manufacturers in 50s/60s knew that, and possibly made some modifications for better use in audio equipments. 6080/6AS7G on the other hand were not designed for audio use, they were mainly used as voltage regulators before tube-philes found them. 

The shift to 12A_7 tubes is an ugly move, just for the sake of cost cutting.


----------



## MIKELAP

cddc said:


> Here you go, @MIKELAP  (pic from the bay)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all was it worth the trouble soundwise ? Would you have a link or did you make your own adapters ?.Thanks again


----------



## cddc

@CAJames can chime in with regard to the sound of this tube. I read some comments ranging from good to okay, I guess it's just a different flavor. One possible problem I read though, they can be noisy and might need DC heater, because of that I didn't go down that road, plus there are just too many predecessors to investigate.

For adapters you can always check with msxuling or deyan.


----------



## CAJames

So, long story short, yes need an adapter for 2x 37 or 76 to on 6SN7. You can get them on ebay but I had @Deyan make mine.  There is a whole thread dedicated to the single triode versions of the 6SN7 and predecessors:

Link

I really like the sound, although it is true I had to go through a few to find 4 quiet, reasonably matched ones. I've come to prefer single triodes with adapters to 6SN7s in general and for the money the type 37 is my favorite. Spacious and detailed and just a little warm. Kind of a Mullard sound if you will.


----------



## jonathan c

New member of WA22 “ownerhood” 🤓; [current member of WA3 + WA6 “ownerhoods”]


----------



## HPAholic

Has anyone tried a WE tube only setup on the WA22?
- WE 422A
- WE 421A
- WE 6SC7GT is a high mu triode - 70mu


----------



## acguitar84

jonathan c said:


> New member of WA22 “ownerhood” 🤓; [current member of WA3 + WA6 “ownerhoods”]


How do like the wa22 in comparison to the gsx mini? I love my mini - but I'm thinking of saving for a tube amp next, to have the best of both worlds so to speak. Also, I have the Utopia and from everything I've read, they really come alive with tube amps.


----------



## jonathan c

acguitar84 said:


> How do like the wa22 in comparison to the gsx mini? I love my mini - but I'm thinking of saving for a tube amp next, to have the best of both worlds so to speak. Also, I have the Utopia and from everything I've read, they really come alive with tube amps.


Both for me are keepers. The ambience, perspective, gestalt of the WA22 is 5-star. The GSX-mini is no slouch in any of these; it is lucid, very slightly warm, engaging. One element that I ‘notice’ between the WA22 and the GSX-mini (or between a good v/t and a good s/s amp) is that the space between instruments/singers is “inert” via the WA22 and “slightly charged” via the GSX-mini. To me, a different perspective - not a system wrecker. About the Utopias, or thereabouts, I can say that Focal Clear / WA22 is a musically coherent and enjoyable pairing. Last thought: with a stated impedance of 80 ohms, the Utopias _might_ get a little bloated in bass with OTL tube amps.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

jonathan c said:


> New member of WA22 “ownerhood” 🤓; [current member of WA3 + WA6 “ownerhoods”]



very nice setup and collection of Woo amps.  Thank YOU for the strong support.


----------



## maro65

grokit said:


> Yeah I put that blue 274b in the drawer just as soon as I relocated my 596 tube(s). Nothing wrong with it with the Shuguangs, but the 596 is still my favorite rectifier.


Kron Audio KR274B is also very good


----------



## jonathan c

HiFiGuy528 said:


> very nice setup and collection of Woo amps.  Thank YOU for the strong support.


You are welcome. PS, please reintroduce the WA3 so that others might experience it.


----------



## Onik

Anyone from uk selling WA2/WA22(Pre Amp edition) Please PM me with the price.

Thanks.


----------



## Eduardo C (Apr 15, 2021)

Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.

The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!

I hate the hum, it adds another layer of bother to my already bad tinnitus.  I have tried all the usual recommendations like isolating the power supply, upgrading tubes (I bought the most expensive tubes Wooaudio has in stock). The hum is still there, loud and vivid. The only bearable headphones are the HE1000V2, all others are a no go.

After fifteen days trying I gave up. Now the WA22 is silent on the shelf and the HPA-1 is again in business.


----------



## Eduardo C

Just to clarify, I am not blaming WOOAUDIO, probably the info on the humming is somewhere there, buried in a review. Too bad I did not read it before.


----------



## jonathan c

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.
> 
> The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!
> 
> ...


Did you clean the tube pins...deoxit followed by isopropyl alcohol? Also, the choice of rectifier tube can affect / ameliorate / eliminate hum; also, make sure that the pin tips for the rectifier are solid (have no spaces).


----------



## Laines

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.
> 
> The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!
> 
> ...


I really feel you as I was exactly in the same situation (I actually also have tinnitus). I got the amp and depending on the headphone the humm was unbearably loud. 
I purchased a second stock set form Woo directly with the result of even more humm. I purchased power conditioner changed the wall socket etc. nothing helped. Talking to support that on almost all headphones I have (8 out of 1) I need turn up the volume to unsafe levels to overcome the hum was considered "normal", as the headphones are high efficient (e.g. HD6XX & AEON2).

However I didn't gave up as I already knew that with a tube change the humm volume can be influenced, at least to the worst in my experience so far but eventually more quiet as well. I ordered A LOT....A LOT.... of tubes until I found pairs and combinations which brougth the hum down or even disappear on my favorite set of headphones.


----------



## acguitar84

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.
> 
> The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!
> 
> ...


There's a guy in the WA33 thread that had a humming problem (with the 15k elite model!) and woo audio fixed it, from what I could gather reading the posts. Might be worth checking into that. Something about an "out of spec" transformer.


----------



## lawshredpower

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.
> 
> The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!
> 
> ...




There are a lot of posts here on the thread regarding hum. It seems that either the amp design is flawed or some hum is expected or both.

Some people actually managed to achieve pitch black background here afaik, it all came down to tube combo.

I am in that journey myself right now. Instead of being frustrated I‘m enjoying this part of the adventure. I get immensely annoyed by hum as well and a completely silent background is my goal. I am enjoying the sound of the amp too much to give up. Also, I’m stubborn.

Here’s my personal experience so far:

1. It wasn’t ground loop for me (I’ve created a ground loop on purpose and then there was ground hum on top the amp hum just to test lol).

2. Power? I’ve tested the amp with different cables in different outlets in different parts of homes in literally two different continents (no joking, it was a pain to take the amp as my carry-on luggage). Nothing changed (props to Woo for making an amp with a 110-240v switch though. WHY CAN’T MORE PEOPLE DO THAT?)

3. All about the tubes. The stock ones were garbage. Not only they had hum but some also had RF interference.

4. You can sometimes pinpoint which tube is the cause of the hum. The hum is stronger on one side? Switch power tubes sides and see if the stronger hum migrates to the other channel. Do the same with the driver tubes. I can tell even in matched pair some tubes are noisier than others. But then again, I’m still refusing to buy the overpriced tubes from the Woo website and I’m getting mine from eBay, the classifieds here and such. I’ve read here that really strong tubes with good matching may impact on the hum. I’m too much of a fan of cold, analytical solid state amps to let myself spend that much on NOS tubes.

5. Some tubes may sound noisy from the box but will get quieter as they settle down after some hours of use. Do not buy, test for a few minutes, conclude it’s noisy AF and then flip them on head-fi. Give them a week or two. My U52 rectifier got considerably quieter.


I’ve just put a pair of GE 6AS7GA in the place of my matched quad GE 6BL7GTA yesterday. Sounds like a Mr. Coffee machine, but I’ll keep the amp running with headphones plugged in for a couple hours every day and then check it out just to be sure.

I’m also tired of going this vintage NOS tube way and I’m trying brand new psvane tubes next. Just out of curiosity and because I’m enjoying this quest. Before an audio gear enthusiast I was a guitar player so I can tell ya: every tube amp has its own cross to carry. Not a defect, a feature lol  can be super frustrating if you don’t enjoy the ride. Godspeed and keep sharing your experiences!


----------



## Onik

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.
> 
> The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!
> 
> ...


Did you try upgrading the coupling caps to a better quality ones? If not try some Jupiter or Jensen Capacitors they might be good choice for amps like wa2/ wa22, imo some caps are not good enough to block DC at output so if I were you I would try it.


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 16, 2021)

Onik said:


> Did you try upgrading the coupling caps to a better quality ones? If not try some Jupiter or Jensen Capacitors they might be good choice for amps like wa2/ wa22, imo some caps are not good enough to block DC at output so if I were you I would try it.


How would DC (at 0 hertz) create hum if it were not blocked? Would the DC not just “fry” the headphone drivers?


----------



## Eduardo C

Thanks for your answers. I guess there are some things to try before giving up.

Is there is a particular type of tube (driver, power, rectifier) were I should start making changes?


----------



## Onik

jonathan c said:


> How would DC (at 0 hertz) create hum if it were not blocked? Would the DC not just “fry” the headphone drivers?


There's always some DC at output which can't be measured sometimes with testing equipments, the coupling caps job is to get rid of any DC at the output stage of an amplifier, the hum might or might not be caused by a bad cap or low quality cap its just a step to reduce/eliminate the hum, I don't think a very tiny amount of DC can fry any headphones.


----------



## lawshredpower

Eduardo C said:


> Thanks for your answers. I guess there are some things to try before giving up.
> 
> Is there is a particular type of tube (driver, power, rectifier) were I should start making changes?


Really depends on what’s happening over there. The worst noise on mine came from the driver tubes. If you can just upgrade everything


----------



## maro65

Eduardo C said:


> Hi guys: I just received my new WA22. I bought it as an alternative to the PassLabs HPA-1.
> 
> The sound is great: full, sweet and very involving. The problem I am having is... the hum!
> 
> ...


In my experience, the Wa22 does not match very well with very efficient headphones (over 95 db) I found the ideal match with the Abyss Diana, zero hum


----------



## Eduardo C

maro65 said:


> In my experience, the Wa22 does not match very well with very efficient headphones (over 95 db) I found the ideal match with the Abyss Diana, zero hum


I think you nailed it. With the help of some friends I have tried different headphones. There is little to zero hum with HE1000V2, Abyss Diana or AEON 2C. 

Any experience with WA22 (5998 power tubes) driving Susvara?

thanks.


----------



## maro65

Eduardo C said:


> I think you nailed it. With the help of some friends I have tried different headphones. There is little to zero hum with HE1000V2, Abyss Diana or AEON 2C.
> 
> Any experience with WA22 (5998 power tubes) driving Susvara?
> 
> thanks.


You should ask Woo Audio


----------



## Melting735

I had a Feliks Elise.  I like the balance option on wa22. How does this compare to Elise in terms of sound?


----------



## HiFiGuy528

maro65 said:


> In my experience, the Wa22 does not match very well with very efficient headphones (over 95 db) I found the ideal match with the Abyss Diana, zero hum



Agreed! WA22 is a high power and high gain amplifier. It should be paired with headphones that can utilize the power. 

When paired with highly efficient headphones, it is expected to hear some noise because the headphone doesn't need all that power. This would be like a car engine for a bicycle, too much power.


----------



## davehg

Odd, I use Focal Clears and Audeze LCD 3 with a WA22 which are both very efficient and I don’t have issues. Both do better with a WA5, but they sound great on the WA22.

I do think the HD650 is a special pair however. And that headphone is very efficient even though it is also high impedance


----------



## maro65

davehg said:


> Odd, I use Focal Clears and Audeze LCD 3 with a WA22 which are both very efficient and I don’t have issues. Both do better with a WA5, but they sound great on the WA22.
> 
> I do think the HD650 is a special pair however. And that headphone is very efficient even though it is also high impedance


Do you have the Wa22 first or second generation?


----------



## davehg

First Gen, with Jupiter Copper caps


----------



## maro65

I'm talking about the second generation ,they're not the same


----------



## maro65

davehg said:


> First Gen, with Jupiter Copper caps





maro65 said:


> I'm talking about the second generation ,they're not the same


----------



## davehg

Good to know. One other idea, albeit pricey. I’ve heard a few folks use the Audioquest Niagra 1000 or 1200 AC conditioner who have said it eliminated hum in their tube amp, plus yielded sonic benefit. They are on back order and are pricey. I am going to try one for my Leben, whose transformers hum too (not through the loudspeakers though). I’ll let you know if it works. Have you tried a grounding strap on the Woo to see if that helps?


----------



## maro65

davehg said:


> Good to know. One other idea, albeit pricey. I’ve heard a few folks use the Audioquest Niagra 1000 or 1200 AC conditioner who have said it eliminated hum in their tube amp, plus yielded sonic benefit. They are on back order and are pricey. I am going to try one for my Leben, whose transformers hum too (not through the loudspeakers though). I’ll let you know if it works. Have you tried a grounding strap on the Woo to see if that helps?


I did a lot of evidence, and I sold it


----------



## lawshredpower

davehg said:


> Good to know. One other idea, albeit pricey. I’ve heard a few folks use the Audioquest Niagra 1000 or 1200 AC conditioner who have said it eliminated hum in their tube amp, plus yielded sonic benefit. They are on back order and are pricey. I am going to try one for my Leben, whose transformers hum too (not through the loudspeakers though). I’ll let you know if it works. Have you tried a grounding strap on the Woo to see if that helps?



So, transformer hum may be dc on the mains. Maybe you don't need something that expensive to solve it.

You could buy the new iFi DC Blocker for what? 150? Buy it on amazon, test it, share your findings with me (please ) and if it does not work you can always return. https://ifi-audio.com/products/dc-blocker/


Now regarding the WA22, I've stated before I'm on a quest to achieve pitch black background. Nothing indicates that the hum I'm experiencing is DC on the mains, as the transformers do not hum. Take a look at my most recent thoughts here and tell me what you think https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-audio-wa22-amp-owner-unite.826386/page-75#post-16299780


----------



## lawshredpower

Another zero hum quest update:


Added brand new PSVANE UK-6SN7 tubes, replacing my NOS Sylvania VT-99. Hum has diminished considerably. The lowest I’ve ever achieved. Almost nothing with my IEMs. If I had really hard to drive full-size headphones perhaps it would be already pitch black.

Yeah, digging NOS tubes on eBay has been very hit and miss. I can tell which part of the hum was caused by the VT-99s by listening what the PSVANE added and removed noise-wise, if that makes any sense. And I have a feeling putting some brand new good power tubes might finally kill all hum. I’m currently sporting a matched quad of NOS GE 6BL7GTA.


----------



## davehg

Trying out an NOS set of Sylvania 6SN7W (military spec). Sounds awesome with the Brimar/Mullard combo.


----------



## Zurv

How is the WA22 as a pre?
I'm moving my Primaluna EVO 400 to my floor standing speakers. It was a pre/amp and headphone amp.
I have some extra SS amps around.. so maybe the Woo fills the roll of headphone amp and pre?

Thoughts?


----------



## Randy Myers

Hello All,  I just recently purchase my Woo WA22 (2nd Gen) to drive my Abyss Diana Phi's and Audeze LCD-3's.  So far loving it but trying to decide if I should look into upgraded tubes.


----------



## jonathan c (Jun 18, 2021)

Randy Myers said:


> Hello All,  I just recently purchase my Woo WA22 (2nd Gen) to drive my Abyss Diana Phi's and Audeze LCD-3's.  So far loving it but trying to decide if I should look into upgraded tubes.


If you travel the upgrade route, start with the rectifier tube. I suggest as serious, but not insanely priced, contenders: Brimar 5R4GY, Mullard GZ34. [I use these in the Woo WA6 (1st generation).]


----------



## Randy Myers

Thank you for the recommendation.  Any good source for this tube?


----------



## jonathan c

Randy Myers said:


> Thank you for the recommendation.  Any good source for this tube?


I have purchased via EBay and I have used Langrex in the U.K.


----------



## Randy Myers (Jun 21, 2021)

Thank you for the suggestions.  I have a feeling I will try a few different ones. To start I decided to grab a JAN Phillips NOS rectifier and a set of Black Treasure 6SN7's which I have used in other pieces and really liked.

Always appreciate the thoughts and suggestions.  I have a feeling I will end up with a few to switch in and out 😎.


----------



## lawshredpower

Randy Myers said:


> Hello All,  I just recently purchase my Woo WA22 (2nd Gen) to drive my Abyss Diana Phi's and Audeze LCD-3's.  So far loving it but trying to decide if I should look into upgraded tubes.


Absolutely! Stock tubes are consistently bad and inconsistent on everything else.


----------



## Zurv

It always makes me sad when i buy tube devices just to throw away all the stock tubes. They cost something.. maybe let me buy it without tubes.


----------



## spyder1

Zurv said:


> It always makes me sad when i buy tube devices just to throw away all the stock tubes. They cost something.. maybe let me buy it without tubes.


Don't through away stock tubes! Set them aside as spares, or include them when you decide to sell your AMP.


----------



## cj3209 (Jun 20, 2021)

lawshredpower said:


> There are a lot of posts here on the thread regarding hum. It seems that either the amp design is flawed or some hum is expected or both.
> 
> Some people actually managed to achieve pitch black background here afaik, it all came down to tube combo.
> 
> ...


So I had this hum issue as well on my WA22 (2nd gen.) and after trying out all sorts of things and determining that it was not ground loop or power cables, etc., I found that it was the pair of 6080 stock tubes that was supplying the hum.  After replacing them, the hum disappeared.  Problem solved.  Although a bad tube may not solve everyone's hum issues, so FWIW.

As for the 'overpriced' upgrade tubes from Woo Audio, I think their prices are fair because you are paying for NOS from a reputable dealer and the ability to return if there are issues.  As for buying tubes on eBay, there are many bad products, IMHO, so you're taking a gamble on the quality.  Again, my opinion.

I'm using the upgraded Tung Sol 5998 power tubes (from a tube dealer) and upgraded rectifer USAF 596 tube (from Woo Audio):  the sound is drop dead gorgeous in combo with Diana Phi headphones, XI Sagra DAC, and ROON.


----------



## Randy Myers

I recently purchased my WA22 (2nd Gen) and love the amp.  I do not have any noise issues at all with the stock tubes, but I am also upgrading to try some better tubes.  Anyone have any recommendations for 6080 (or replacements) power tubes?

Thanks for any suggesitons!


----------



## jonathan c

Randy Myers said:


> I recently purchased my WA22 (2nd Gen) and love the amp.  I do not have any noise issues at all with the stock tubes, but I am also upgrading to try some better tubes.  Anyone have any recommendations for 6080 (or replacements) power tubes?
> 
> Thanks for any suggesitons!


The first that comes to mind is the Tung-Sol 5998 - they are pricey. The GE 5998A gives you a high % of the TS 5998 - search for review by @Ripper2860: very favourable and expertly done.


----------



## Randy Myers (Jun 21, 2021)

Thank you for the suggestion.

I researched a couple minutes... So I see what you mean about the Tung-Sol 5998 being pricy...


----------



## cj3209

Randy Myers said:


> Thank you for the suggestion.
> 
> I researched a couple minutes... So I see what you mean about the Tung-Sol 5998 being pricy...


I got mine from here:
https://www.nosvacuumtubes.net/brand/tung-sol/

Cheaper than Woo Audio but they are slightly used vs. NOS from Woo Audio.

They sound great, btw...


----------



## jonathan c

cj3209 said:


> I got mine from here:
> https://www.nosvacuumtubes.net/brand/tung-sol/
> 
> Cheaper than Woo Audio but they are slightly used vs. NOS from Woo Audio.
> ...


I have bought from ‘nosvacuumtubes’ quite often: from TS 5998 to GEC/Marconi A2900. Joshua, there, at Tubes Unlimited has been very helpful.


----------



## Zurv (Jun 21, 2021)

Randy Myers said:


> I recently purchased my WA22 (2nd Gen) and love the amp.  I do not have any noise issues at all with the stock tubes, but I am also upgrading to try some better tubes.  Anyone have any recommendations for 6080 (or replacements) power tubes?
> 
> Thanks for any suggesitons!


Are you starting your rolling with the power?
Might i suggest starting the gain? The should be the largest impact.
There are some really nice 6SN7 options.

You should enjoy the CBS Hytron 5692. Upscale has them and they aren't to much. (and they are a seller you can trust. They do test.)

(stay away from all this scary foot talk too... )

UPDATE:
Wait a sec, the 6sn7 in the wa22 is the driver. hrmm.. then what is the big impact then?
In my primaluna the gain tubes are the one with the largest impact. (gain > power > driver). Schiit freya+ gain> driver.

So what is the big impact for the wa22? ie, the big $$ impact? power > driver > rectifier ? (that would be my guess then.)


----------



## Zurv

oh.. any thoughts on the USAF vs the Sophia?
I ended up getting the Sohia because it looks cooler. (i have the tubes.. but i'm waiting on my wa22 still.. black  takes  a long time)
I'm using the CBS 5962, Sophia and Tung Sol 5998 NOS.


----------



## jonathan c

Zurv said:


> Are you starting your rolling with the power?
> Might i suggest starting the gain? The should be the largest impact.
> There are some really nice 6SN7 options.
> 
> ...


For the sonic impact, I would think the rectifier: the first departure point for the dc just converted from ac…


----------



## HiFiGuy528

my vote is Sophia 274B rectifier tube. It is what I'm using. 

note: changing the power tube would change the specifications and noise-floor of the amplifier. If you're using highly efficient headphones like Focal, HD800, Grado, etc. you may hear noise if the new tubes are not tested to be "low noise".


----------



## Randy Myers

Thanks for all the input!


----------



## Zurv (Jun 24, 2021)

I've been eyeing the WA22.. but went with the WA33.. then changed my mind.. cause $$$$$
So i'm getting the WA22.

With the money i "saved" (clearly not saved as is then spent it!?) i ordered the hifiman susvara.
Here is the "can i run this" headphone question 

Clearly the wa22 can run the susvara.. but run it well?
Tubes i'm going to use:
Tung Sol 5998 (NOS)
274B Sophia
CBS/Hytron 5692 (NOS)

If it won't run well.. i don't think i'd want to give up on the TS 5998. Rectifier have any impact? I did pick the Sophia because it looks cool...
the Takatsuki TA-274B and the 274B-HP KR tubes are $$$$ and seem to be made (or at least priced at) a more fancy unit. (also one of the reason i passed on the WA33. That is a lot more tubes i'd need to buy.)

Advice? (yes yes.. WA33 is better.. i know.. but $2500 + tubes vs $8k-$17 + tubes.. ouch. Also the WA33 was to big for my desk. I also like 6sn7 tubes.)


----------



## cj3209

Zurv said:


> I've been eyeing the WA22.. but went with the WA33.. then changed my mind.. cause $$$$$
> So i'm getting the WA22.
> 
> With the money i "saved" (clearly not saved as is then spent it!?) i ordered the hifiman susvara.
> ...


This is a crazy hobby and the law of diminishing returns applies well here...

I'm sure the WA33 sounds crazy good and if I had the $$$, I would probably buy it.  But the WA22 with the tubes you mentioned (I have the 5998s, 596 USAF rectifier, and Sylvania 6SN7Ws) sound insane with my Diana Phi.


----------



## Zurv

doesn't the Diana Phi have great sensitivity and easy to drive?


----------



## cj3209

Zurv said:


> doesn't the Diana Phi have great sensitivity and easy to drive?


Yeah, they're pretty easy to drive being 32 ohms and 91 sensitivity.  Much easier on my head too than the 1266s...


----------



## Randy Myers (Jun 25, 2021)

I love my Abyss Diana Phi with my WA22... just starting to get into tube rolling.  My Audeze LCD-3 are actually much easier to drive than the Diana with their 101 dB sensitivity.  Both my Woo and my A&K portable can drive either perfectly fine.

Funny story... I just received my first NOS tubes... I purchased some JAN Phillips power tubes because they were highly recommended by a friend who is into rolling and owns a WA22.  I always believed the stock tubes were pretty much junk, as per this and other forums.  Come to find out, the power tubes that Woo included were also the JAN Phillips tubes ...  Silly me, I did not even look at the stock ones... generic box, etc.  So now I have a back up pair of the Phillips 6080 tubes ...

For first go round I have a NOS Phillips rectifier coming (today maybe) and have order some Black Treasures for drivers which I have really liked in the past with other pieces.  I am sure I will be getting others to roll in the near future.

As an example, for my Hattor tube stage add on to the passive pre-amp base unit I have the original included JAN Phillips tubes, a set of 1957 CBS-Hytrons, 1962 RCA clear tops, and a set of Gold Lions... just to play around with.


----------



## lawshredpower

HiFiGuy528 said:


> my vote is Sophia 274B rectifier tube. It is what I'm using.
> 
> note: changing the power tube would change the specifications and noise-floor of the amplifier. If you're using highly efficient headphones like Focal, HD800, Grado, etc. you may hear noise if the new tubes are not tested to be "low noise".



which tubes would you recommend for dead silence with efficient headphones?


----------



## attmci

Randy Myers said:


> I love my Abyss Diana Phi with my WA22... just starting to get into tube rolling.  My Audeze LCD-3 are actually much easier to drive than the Diana with their 101 dB sensitivity.  Both my Woo and my A&K portable can drive either perfectly fine.
> 
> Funny story... I just received my first NOS tubes... I purchased some JAN Phillips power tubes because they were highly recommended by a friend who is into rolling and owns a WA22.  I always believed the stock tubes were pretty much junk, as per this and other forums.  Come to find out, the power tubes that Woo included were also the JAN Phillips tubes ...  Silly me, I did not even look at the stock ones... generic box, etc.  So now I have a back up pair of the Phillips 6080 tubes ...
> 
> ...


You need a couple of nice tubes to make the WA22 sing (421A, ECC35, and 422A). But sorry for your wallet.


----------



## attmci

jonathan c said:


> The first that comes to mind is the Tung-Sol 5998 - they are pricey. The GE 5998A gives you a high % of the TS 5998 - search for review by @Ripper2860: very favourable and expertly done.


The GE 5998A gives you a high % of the TS 5998?
Nope.


----------



## jonathan c

attmci said:


> The GE 5998A gives you a high % of the TS 5998?
> Nope.


Well, if you have twelve people in a room who all agree, you don’t need eleven of them. _Vive la difference…_


----------



## attmci

jonathan c said:


> Well, if you have twelve people in a room who all agree, you don’t need eleven of them. _Vive la difference…_


fake news, fake news.

Have a nice weekend.


----------



## Roasty

The WA22 was one of my favourite amps. 

After lots of trial and error, IMO these are the only tubes u will ever need.. 

Rec: tak274b, psvane we274b 1:1 replica, eml 5u4g, gec u52
Drivers: Mullard ECC35, tungsol 6sn7 tall boys (preferred this over 3 hole bad boys)
Power: ts5998 and we421a


----------



## jonathan c

Roasty said:


> The WA22 was one of my favourite amps.
> 
> After lots of trial and error, IMO these are the only tubes u will ever need..
> 
> ...


With those tubes…….WAS?


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> The WA22 was one of my favourite amps.
> 
> After lots of trial and error, IMO these are the only tubes u will ever need..
> 
> ...





jonathan c said:


> With those tubes…….WAS?


You don't like the 422A? It's the No 1 choice for the amp.


Mullard CV1970, TS 6SC7GT also works as alternative driver tubes. You may need adaptors.


----------



## Roasty (Jun 26, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> With those tubes…….WAS?



Yea.. Enjoyed it a lot whilst I had it. With the ECC35 and WE421A, even the Abyss 1266 was extremely enjoyable on that amp. Dead silent too.

Unfortunately (or fortunately), eventually purchased the 33, so the 22 had to go.




attmci said:


> You don't like the 422A? It's the No 1 choice for the amp.
> 
> 
> Mullard CV1970, TS 6SC7GT also works as alternative driver tubes. You may need adaptors.



I had the WE422a too. Somehow, it didn't sound as good as the other rectifiers I listed above. Seemed a bit flat in dynamics and one step down in transparency. And I was a bit bummed too, as it was the second most expensive rectifier I bought, after the tak274b.


----------



## cj3209

Roasty said:


> Yea.. Enjoyed it a lot whilst I had it. With the ECC35 and WE421A, even the Abyss 1266 was extremely enjoyable on that amp. Dead silent too.
> 
> Unfortunately (or fortunately), eventually purchased the 33, so the 22 had to go.
> 
> ...


What's the deal with SS rectifiers or hybrid ones?


----------



## attmci

Roasty said:


> Yea.. Enjoyed it a lot whilst I had it. With the ECC35 and WE421A, even the Abyss 1266 was extremely enjoyable on that amp. Dead silent too.
> 
> Unfortunately (or fortunately), eventually purchased the 33, so the 22 had to go.
> 
> ...


I don't have a tak274b. But I have a couple of the 422A NIB. I found it's the best in transparency and sound stage comparing to the other top tubes.


----------



## Randy Myers

I finally had some replacement driver tubes arrive yesterday. They are 1966 Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGTA. What a huge difference! I can see why the WA22 is called a tube roller's delight.

I also am using a JAN Phillips rectifier and a pair of JAN Phillips power tubes in the amp.

I have some Black Treasures on order but they are taking a ridiculously long time coming from China. I might also try some other rectifiers and power tubes just to see how some various tubes sound!

I use the amp with both Audeze LCD-3's and my favorite the Abyss Diana Phi headphones!


----------



## attmci (Jul 12, 2021)

Randy Myers said:


> I finally had some replacement driver tubes arrive yesterday. They are 1966 Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGTA. What a huge difference! I can see why the WA22 is called a tube roller's delight.
> 
> I also am using a JAN Phillips rectifier and a pair of JAN Phillips power tubes in the amp.
> 
> ...


Keep your eyes on ECC35 and USAF 596 (need adaptor) which are still available at reasonable price.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Did anyone ever try KT88 with an adapter instead of the 6080?


----------



## lawshredpower

ThanatosVI said:


> Did anyone ever try KT88 with an adapter instead of the 6080?


Is it possible?


----------



## ThanatosVI

lawshredpower said:


> Is it possible?


Many do it on the Feliks Euforia which also uses 6SN7 and 6080.

KT88 need less current than 6080 at the same voltage.
You need an adapter with correct pin out and will Lose the warranty though.

However from my limited understanding it should work and I wanted to inquire if anyone ever tried it in here.

Maybe it doesn't play well with the output transformer and that's why it works on Euforia and nobody does it here.

I learned about this two days ago as well.


----------



## lawshredpower

ThanatosVI said:


> Many do it on the Feliks Euforia which also uses 6SN7 and 6080.
> 
> KT88 need less current than 6080 at the same voltage.
> You need an adapter with correct pin out and will Lose the warranty though.
> ...



Tube amps are such a pain, if Woo does not give me the OK I would not risk it even if the math adds up


----------



## ThanatosVI

lawshredpower said:


> Tube amps are such a pain, if Woo does not give me the OK I would not risk it even if the math adds up


Woo most certainly won't give the ok on this.
I simply wanted to ask for experiences of those that tried it

Even Feliks doesn't give the ok but many used that setup for years without issues.
Learned about this in their thread and that spiked my interest, therefore I came asking here as well.


----------



## cj3209

Man.  Have upgraded to a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGT tubes (pre-owned) and the sound went to another level with deeper bass and a more pleasing balanced sound.  Love it!  

But I get the occasional static on one side of my phones with one tube but once I pull it out and put it back in, it's fine.  Maybe the tube will die on me... hopefully not.


----------



## lawshredpower

cj3209 said:


> Man.  Have upgraded to a pair of Sylvania 6SN7WGT tubes (pre-owned) and the sound went to another level with deeper bass and a more pleasing balanced sound.  Love it!
> 
> But I get the occasional static on one side of my phones with one tube but once I pull it out and put it back in, it's fine.  Maybe the tube will die on me... hopefully not.


Had the same with the same tubes. Only one of tubes were bad with a little bit of static. Bad luck that happens. But awesome tubes!!


----------



## Randy Myers

I have been using some NOS Sylvania Brown Base driver tubes, which definitely sounded a lot better than the generic ones that came from Woo.  Yesterday my pair of Black Treasures arrived and they sound fantastic.  In many ways better than the Brown Base even.  Certainly a different flavor than the Sylvania.

I have a Mullard rectifier (NOS) coming later in the week.  Currently using a NOS JAN Phillips which was a nice improvement from the generic that Woo sent.  Hoping for a similar difference as what I had comparing the Sylvania to the Black Treasures driver tubes!

So far the only power tubes I have are two pair of NOS JAN Phillips.  I want to try a different power tube but I am not going to the expense of some of those out there at this time .


----------



## jonathan c

Randy Myers said:


> I have been using some NOS Sylvania Brown Base driver tubes, which definitely sounded a lot better than the generic ones that came from Woo.  Yesterday my pair of Black Treasures arrived and they sound fantastic.  In many ways better than the Brown Base even.  Certainly a different flavor than the Sylvania.
> 
> I have a Mullard rectifier (NOS) coming later in the week.  Currently using a NOS JAN Phillips which was a nice improvement from the generic that Woo sent.  Hoping for a similar difference as what I had comparing the Sylvania to the Black Treasures driver tubes!
> 
> So far the only power tubes I have are two pair of NOS JAN Phillips.  I want to try a different power tube but I am not going to the expense of some of those out there at this time .


You may find that the Mullard rectifier tube has the most dramatic effect on the sound quality emanating from the WA22. When I put in an IEC/Mullard GZ34 to replace a brown base RCA 5R4UG in my WA6 first generation, the improvements were dramatic. I guess that everything begins with the purity/quality of the dc flowing through the circuitry...


----------



## Randy Myers

jonathan c said:


> You may find that the Mullard rectifier tube has the most dramatic effect on the sound quality emanating from the WA22. When I put in an IEC/Mullard GZ34 to replace a brown base RCA 5R4UG in my WA6 first generation, the improvements were dramatic. I guess that everything begins with the purity/quality of the dc flowing through the circuitry...


Looking forward to trying it.  I do know that going from the no name rectifier tube that Woo provided to the JAN Phillips was a nice improvement.


----------



## cj3209

Randy Myers said:


> Looking forward to trying it.  I do know that going from the no name rectifier tube that Woo provided to the JAN Phillips was a nice improvement.


Hmmm, I was told the rectifier tube has the least effect on the sound, that is in comparison to the other tubes on the WA22.


----------



## HPAholic

*@attmci* "Keep your eyes on *ECC35* and *USAF-596* (need adaptor) which are still available at reasonable price".  Where you seeing reasonable as the *ECC35 RU1 and RU2* with brown base from the 50's and 60's current market range is $250.00 to $500.00 per single, unless you're referring to *ECC35 RU4 *with yellow lettering from 70's.  Also the *USAF-596* current market range is $225.00 to $300.00. Maybe reasonable equals something different for others 






 



 Threw in the *Brimar CV1985 KB/ FB 1955* for good measure ...


----------



## lawshredpower

HPAholic said:


> *@attmci* "Keep your eyes on *ECC35* and *USAF-596* (need adaptor) which are still available at reasonable price".  Where you seeing reasonable as the *ECC35 RU1 and RU2* with brown base from the 50's and 60's current market range is $250.00 to $500.00 per single, unless you're referring to *ECC35 RU4 *with yellow lettering from 70's.  Also the *USAF-596* current market range is $225.00 to $300.00. Maybe reasonable equals something different for others
> 
> 
> 
> Threw in the *Brimar CV1985 KB/ FB 1955* for good measure ...



Yeah I gave up on them, the prices are BS. You could get USAF for 120 ish USD a few years ago


----------



## ksorota

Wish those cv1985s were still around for 55$ a piece. Look to be around 300$ for a pair!


----------



## cj3209

lawshredpower said:


> Yeah I gave up on them, the prices are BS. You could get USAF for 120 ish USD a few years ago


LOL...you gotta pay to play...literally...


----------



## Randy Myers (Jul 14, 2021)

Well I just recently purchased my WA22 (2nd Gen) and have purchased two different NOS tube sets for the drivers, two NOS set for the power tubes, and two different NOS rectifiers, not counting the tubes that came with the amp... that is a decent amount of tubes purchased in about a month.  I think this is certainly enough to get started .

As I get into the Woo more I might end up picking up some more "special" tubes... from previous experience with other amplifiers I do believe the Black Treasures are definitely a great value for a really good sounding tube!

The only other tube device I currently use is my Hattor pre-amplifier and I rotate four different sets of tubes in it .


----------



## jonathan c

Randy Myers said:


> Well I just recently purchased my WA22 (2nd Gen) and have purchased two different NOS tube sets for the drivers, two NOS set for the power tubes, and two different NOS rectifiers, not counting the tubes that came with the amp... that is a decent amount of tubes purchased in about a month.  I think this is certainly enough to get started .
> 
> As I get into the Woo more I might end up picking up some more "special" tubes... from previous experience with other amplifiers I do believe the Black Treasures are definitely a great value for a really good sounding tube!
> 
> The only other tube device I currently use is my Hattor pre-amplifier and I rotate four different sets of tubes in it .


For the WA22 driver tubes, you could even get aboard H.M.S. Footscray (Brimar CV455 KB/FB)…anchors aweigh!!…


----------



## Randy Myers

Yea, I have seen and heard about many including Brimar ...  at this early point in my WA22 ownership for drivers I have the original generic from Woo and a set of NOS Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGTA and a set of Black Treasures.  A decent start I think.


----------



## Roasty

cj3209 said:


> Hmmm, I was told the rectifier tube has the least effect on the sound, that is in comparison to the other tubes on the WA22.



After rolling a whole bunch of tubes on the WA22, my observation was the rectifier had the most part in soundstage and bass, the drivers affected mid range clarity, forwardness and gain/volume the most, and the power tubes influenced gain/volume less than the drivers. 

The most dramatic change in tubes I had was with the drivers. Moving from 6sn7 type to the Mullard ECC35 gave the most audible improvement on the whole. Next best was switching out 6080 power tubes to 5998/421a tubes. And then the final "shaping" with rectifiers. 

Gz34 and brimar g5z4gy blunted the top the most and gave a slightly dullish sound. Tak/psvane 274b had the best highs; very sweet but retaining clarity. And 5u4g eml was the most forward with a hint of grain/edginess.


----------



## cj3209

Roasty said:


> After rolling a whole bunch of tubes on the WA22, my observation was the rectifier had the most part in soundstage and bass, the drivers affected mid range clarity, forwardness and gain/volume the most, and the power tubes influenced gain/volume less than the drivers.
> 
> The most dramatic change in tubes I had was with the drivers. Moving from 6sn7 type to the Mullard ECC35 gave the most audible improvement on the whole. Next best was switching out 6080 power tubes to 5998/421a tubes. And then the final "shaping" with rectifiers.
> 
> Gz34 and brimar g5z4gy blunted the top the most and gave a slightly dullish sound. Tak/psvane 274b had the best highs; very sweet but retaining clarity. And 5u4g eml was the most forward with a hint of grain/edginess.


ah, now I have to try the Mullard ECC35s...not sure what the options are:  balanced triodes and low noise/microphonics...?  These are extra costs.  I'm looking at around $500 per matched pair...


----------



## Roasty

cj3209 said:


> balanced triodes and low noise/microphonics...?



Lol sorry I don't know what these mean.. All I know is they sound great. 500 bucks is the usual price. I think I paid slightly less a while back. There is a dude on ebay who had a few sets of these, from whom I bought 2 pairs. 

The guy I sold my WA22 to, also bought a set of the ECC35 from me since I no longer needed them. And he said it was a crazy good improvement. The gain they have, makes it really easy to drive the abyss and susvara too.


----------



## HPAholic

So far these are the only tubes I have tried on the WA22 ...

*Tubes: *

Mullard ECC35, Brimar CV1985, Sylvania 6SN7GT 3-holes, Ken-Rad 6SN7GT VT-231, Tung-Sol 6F8G VT-99, Melz 1578 and Raytheon CK5694
Bendix 6080WB non-slotted, Chatham 6080, 6AS7G, 2399 and 5998, Tung-Sol 5998 and 7236, Western Electric 5998/421a and 421a
USAF-596, Cossor 53KU and GEC U52


----------



## ksorota

HPAholic said:


> So far these are the only tubes I have tried on the WA22 ...
> 
> *Tubes: *
> 
> ...



That is a nice collection of tubes to have tried out/have on hand!


----------



## HPAholic

Still wanting to try the GEC a1834 but not at the current ridiculous price.


----------



## Randy Myers

This Woo is really sounding amazing! I have been trying some better tubes and boy has it opened up.

Current using a pair of NOS JAN Phillips power tubes, some Black Treasures driver tubes, and a NOS Mullard rectifier through my Abyss Diana Phi's. Absolutely the best I have ever heard headphones sound!


----------



## acguitar84

Randy Myers said:


> This Woo is really sounding amazing! I have been trying some better tubes and boy has it opened up.
> 
> Current using a pair of NOS JAN Phillips power tubes, some Black Treasures driver tubes, and a NOS Mullard rectifier through my Abyss Diana Phi's. Absolutely the best I have ever heard headphones sound!


That's cool! I might be mistaken - but I think you were going to get a gsx mini awhile back, but they didn't ship one to you or something. Sounds like you went down a more "fun" road if that was the case. I do like my gsx mini, but I've read people with the Focal Utopia (which is me) are generally happier with a tube amp. I'll have to do more research. Glad you're happy with wa22!!


----------



## Randy Myers

Yea, I did almost get a gsx mini... I am very happy with the Woo... simply amazing amp.  I ended up not getting the HeadAmp because I did not like mis-leading information on their website.  I am glad it has all worked out like it has.  The WA22 is fantastic!


----------



## attmci (Jul 17, 2021)

HPAholic said:


> *@attmci* "Keep your eyes on *ECC35* and *USAF-596* (need adaptor) which are still available at reasonable price".  Where you seeing reasonable as the *ECC35 RU1 and RU2* with brown base from the 50's and 60's current market range is $250.00 to $500.00 per single, unless you're referring to *ECC35 RU4 *with yellow lettering from 70's.  Also the *USAF-596* current market range is $225.00 to $300.00. Maybe reasonable equals something different for others
> 
> 
> 
> Threw in the *Brimar CV1985 KB/ FB 1955* for good measure ...


  I am lucky enough to have many of those tubes in my collection.

I have various versions of the ecc35 (tall, short, black base, brown base). To my ear they sounds very similar.


----------



## HiFiGuy528

Latest review on WA22 by GoldenSound.


----------



## davehg

First time I’ve encountered a GoldenSound review, and I sure like it - reminds me of Darko. Succinct, well edited, good points raised.


----------



## UntilThen

That's why I kept my Wa22 despite moving on to other tube amps. Haven't heard it for close to 3 months because it's lockdown in Sydney and I'm 300 kms away.

Enjoyed the review.


----------



## davehg

I kept my WA22 because it was balanced (unlike my WA5) and both my balanced digital sources sound better in that mode. Plus it was sized right. I preferred my WA5 for headphones but it was quite a bit bigger and left no room on my crowded rack.


----------



## bpcans (Aug 27, 2021)

attmci said:


> I am lucky enough to have many of those tubes in my collection.
> 
> I have various versions of the ecc35 (tall, short, black base, brown base). To my ear they sounds very similar.


attmci, I presently have a bid in on eBay for these Mullard ECC35 tubes which I’m going to try in my WA22 2nd gen to replace the Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes that I first used in my WA6, and later transferred to the WA22. What should I expect to hear? My rectifier tube is a USAF 596, and my power tubes are Tung-Sol 5998’s.


----------



## Onik

HiFiGuy528 said:


> Latest review on WA22 by GoldenSound.



this guy got really bad taste in music, also a wannabe Z Review w..t..f LOL


----------



## phthora

Onik said:


> this guy got really bad taste in music, also a wannabe Z Review w..t..f LOL



Zero waifus, zero crass analogies, actually describes the sound, actually has production value = definitely not trying to be Zeos.


----------



## duranxv

GoldenSound's review definitely put this on the radar for me.  I don't remember the whole video, but did he mention that it can convert single ended into balanced?  I was thinking of using a high end SE solid state to pre amp into a balanced tube amp for my Verite Closed.

Also, how does this compare to other high end tube amps like the LTA MZ3?


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> attmci, I presently have a bid in on eBay for these Mullard ECC35 tubes which I’m going to try in my WA22 2nd gen to replace the Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes that I first used in my WA6, and later transferred to the WA22. What should I expect to hear? My rectifier tube is a USAF 596, and my power tubes are Tung-Sol 5998’s.



first thing is, these are "louder" than other driver tubes with the wa22, so you will be needing less turn on the volume knob.
this was what i observed with mine: mids and highs will stand out, mids more than highs. sounds clearer up top than any other 6sn7 tube i had tried. 
also, if you have any headphones like susvara/TC, you may feel like the wa22 + ecc35 has breathed in new life to the headphones. 
enjoy man!


----------



## jbua5150 (Aug 30, 2021)

The posted review stated "Woo made it quite clear to put on RCA caps if using balanced"
Where is this stated?
The Woo Audio website does not list them as "In the Box"
I don't see it mentioned in the user manual (which is so dated, it references a DACT volume control, and doesn't mention the pre-amp at all).
Is this a case of "OLD" product literature?
Is there a more current version of the WA22 Manual than the one at the WooAudio Site?
Has anyone else been advised to use the RCA shorting caps or have any experience that would indicate if it is a benefit somehow?


----------



## bpcans (Aug 30, 2021)

Roasty said:


> first thing is, these are "louder" than other driver tubes with the wa22, so you will be needing less turn on the volume knob.
> this was what i observed with mine: mids and highs will stand out, mids more than highs. sounds clearer up top than any other 6sn7 tube i had tried.
> also, if you have any headphones like susvara/TC, you may feel like the wa22 + ecc35 has breathed in new life to the headphones.
> enjoy man!


Roasty, I’m anxious to hear what the ECC35 driver tubes will do in my WA22. I’m using the amp in high-gain because that’s what sounds best to me right now. The volume pot dial rarely gets past 9:30 as I don’t like listening to music that’s excessively loud. Thank you for your kind help and expertise.


----------



## cj3209

bpcans said:


> attmci, I presently have a bid in on eBay for these Mullard ECC35 tubes which I’m going to try in my WA22 2nd gen to replace the Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes that I first used in my WA6, and later transferred to the WA22. What should I expect to hear? My rectifier tube is a USAF 596, and my power tubes are Tung-Sol 5998’s.


Ah, crud.  Now you got me interested in these Mullards.  I currently have Sylvania 6SN7W tubes but one of them is giving me some static...argg...


----------



## jonathan c

cj3209 said:


> Ah, crud.  Now you got me interested in these Mullards.  I currently have Sylvania 6SN7W tubes but one of them is giving me some static...argg...


…..must scratch that tube itch….🤪…..😊…..


----------



## cj3209

jonathan c said:


> …..must scratch that tube itch….🤪…..😊…..


I don't know if the Mullards are going to sound 'better' than the Sylvania's.  The Sylvania's are like liquidy sweet for me.  I thought about getting NOS pairs from Woo directly.


----------



## moemoney

jbua5150 said:


> The posted review stated "Woo made it quite clear to put on RCA caps if using balanced"
> Where is this stated?
> The Woo Audio website does not list them as "In the Box"
> I don't see it mentioned in the user manual (which is so dated, it references a DACT volume control, and doesn't mention the pre-amp at all).
> ...


When I had the WA22V2 it came with RCA Caps, I can’t remember if anything was stated in the manual regarding them.


----------



## jbua5150

moemoney said:


> When I had the WA22V2 it came with RCA Caps, I can’t remember if anything was stated in the manual regarding them.


Ah the pitfalls of buying used......
Do you recall if they were shorting caps or just covers?
Thanks!!


----------



## moemoney

jbua5150 said:


> Ah the pitfalls of buying used......
> Do you recall if they were shorting caps or just covers?
> Thanks!!


I believe they were covers


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Roasty, I’m anxious to hear what the ECC35 driver tubes will do in my WA22. I’m using the amp in high-gain because that’s what sounds best to me right now. The volume pot dial rarely gets past 9:30 as I don’t like listening to music that’s excessively loud. Thank you for your kind help and expertise.



They sound fantastic with Utopia. The vocals will really stand out and they're super sweet. I didn't use high gain and I don't think you will need it either with the ECC35. 

After I got my first pair of ECC35, I went around to buy another pair for spares LOL


----------



## bpcans (Aug 31, 2021)

Roasty said:


> They sound fantastic with Utopia. The vocals will really stand out and they're super sweet. I didn't use high gain and I don't think you will need it either with the ECC35.
> 
> After I got my first pair of ECC35, I went around to buy another pair for spares LOL


 Roasty, there’s about five days left on the auction for these ECC35 tubes, and my max bid is at $110. At what price point do I want to start backing off so that I’m just not throwing away hundreds of dollars unnecessarily? I’m asking because I really don’t have as much knowledge about what good tubes should cost as you do. Thnx


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Roasty, there’s about five days left on the auction for these ECC35 tubes, and my max bid is at $110. At what price point do I want to start backing off so that I’m just not throwing away hundreds of dollars unnecessarily? I’m asking because I really don’t have as much knowledge about what good tubes should cost as you do. Thnx



As a reference, I paid usd380 for a pair of nos matched ECC35 6sl7gt tubes. All the best with the auction!


----------



## duranxv

Does it convert a single ended signal from a pre-amp into balanced?


----------



## attmci

bpcans said:


> attmci, I presently have a bid in on eBay for these Mullard ECC35 tubes which I’m going to try in my WA22 2nd gen to replace the Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes that I first used in my WA6, and later transferred to the WA22. What should I expect to hear? My rectifier tube is a USAF 596, and my power tubes are Tung-Sol 5998’s.


Good luck with the bidding war!

You will have more power to drive those hard to drive headphones, like an Abyss 1266.


----------



## bpcans

attmci said:


> Good luck with the bidding war!
> 
> You will have more power to drive those hard to drive headphones, like an Abyss 1266.


attmci, I had a brand new pair of Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s that I had ordered on my head as I listened to them through my audio gear dealers $50,000 headphone system. I leaned back into his comfy leather Eames chair and the Phi TC’s slipped right off of my head. Luckily I caught them before they hit the floor. The fact that you’ve got to remain relatively motionless while you use them was the deal breaker for me. Sometimes I rock my head from side to side on certain songs. So I kept my $4,500 for the down payment on our new house. Plus I really like my Focal Utopia’s. I might demo the Susvara’s later this year though.


----------



## grokit

bpcans said:


> Roasty, I’m anxious to hear what the ECC35 driver tubes will do in my WA22. I’m using the amp in *high-gain* because that’s what sounds best to me right now. The volume pot dial rarely gets past 9:30 as I don’t like listening to music that’s excessively loud. Thank you for your kind help and expertise.





Roasty said:


> They sound fantastic with Utopia. The vocals will really stand out and they're super sweet. I didn't use *high* *gain* and I don't think you will need it either with the ECC35.
> 
> After I got my first pair of ECC35, I went around to buy another pair for spares LOL


Just a quick point of clarification; the WA22 doesn't have a gain switch. The Hi - Lo switch is for impedance, which is very different than gain.


----------



## Roasty

grokit said:


> Just a quick point of clarification; the WA22 doesn't have a gain switch. The Hi - Lo switch is for impedance, which is very different than gain.



Oh yeah, that's right! Thanks for correcting us! 

@bpcans I had mine in low impedance all the time (I didn't hear a difference with my cans when changing to high impedance).


----------



## bpcans

attmci said:


> Good luck with the bidding war!
> 
> You will have more power to drive those hard to drive headphones, like an Abyss 1266.


attmci and @Roasty, I was able to win the vintage Mullard ECC35 tubes for $265. Even though the compatible tubes for the WA22 are listed as being the 6SN7’s and the ECC32’s on the Woo website, I’m going to trust you guys because you know what you’re talking about. I think they’ll be a much easier upgrade than looking at a WA33. Thanks to both of you.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> attmci and @Roasty, I was able to win the vintage Mullard ECC35 tubes for $265. Even though the compatible tubes for the WA22 are listed as being the 6SN7’s and the ECC32’s on the Woo website, I’m going to trust you guys because you know what you’re talking about. I think they’ll be a much easier upgrade than looking at a WA33. Thanks to both of you.



Congrats man. Great price. 
You'll be fine. I just checked the woo website and compatible tube chart. The ECC35 is there. Enjoy!!


----------



## u2u2

duranxv said:


> Does it convert a single ended signal from a pre-amp into balanced?


No one jumped in?
Yes, it does. 
Real problem may be that earlier in the history of the WA22 posters contested if it was a fully balanced design and actually output in balanced. Some felt the “balanced” outputs were just a convenience for different connections rather than a performance item. Photos of the wiring they posted were suggestive. As there have been several revisions may be worth the time to ask Woo directly and give them the serial number of the unit of interest.
My 2015 version has been on balanced input most of its life. In late June I switched to unbalanced due to adding another balanced amp to my setup. The WA22 has not suffered from using a pre amp into the RCAs.


----------



## UntilThen

ECC35 are lovely sounding tubes. I've use them in the Glenn OTL amp and I need one for Odyssey.


----------



## bpcans

UntilThen said:


> ECC35 are lovely sounding tubes. I've use them in the Glenn OTL amp and I need one for Odyssey.


UntilThen, I’ve been using the same pair of Sophia Electric 6SN7 tubes for ten years now in both my Woo WA6, and now my WA22. I’m anxious to hear what kind of sound quality difference that the Mullard ECC35’s will have in my hp system. I’ve had my WA22 set to high impedance since I got my Focal Utopia’s. But until the ECC35’s arrive I’m going to toggle back and forth from high to low impedance to better familiarize myself with the WA22’s capabilities.


----------



## bigbeans

Loving WA22 with HD800S Anniversary.


----------



## bpcans (Sep 23, 2021)

After waiting since September 5th when I won the auction on eBay, the 1950’s ECC35 brown base driver tubes arrived today from Belgium. I let them warm up for a half an hour in the WA22 before I put my headphones on and hit play. I started with an album by George Benson that I’ve listened to at least hundreds of times over the years. And my first impressions are that these driver tubes sound very nice. They are definitely richer, warmer, and have more weight and punch than the Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tubes that I’ve been using for years. What’s amazing is that these comparatively smaller tubes can sound so good. Of course I’ll have to give them plenty of time for my brain to adjust to their different sound signature. But so far so good. The other tubes in my WA22 are a USAF 596 rectifier and an NOS pair of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes.


----------



## bpcans

@Roasty, after listening for a couple hours with the ECC35 tubes in my WA22, I’ve found that the mids seem to be more pronounced and lush sounding, but the highs seem less detailed and over pronounced and less defined. Could this be because of the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, or even the USAF 596 rectifier tube that I’m using? Would you suggest that I do more listening with the ECC35’s before I attempt some tube rolling? The upper register harshness was less pronounced when I used the low impedance setting on my WA22.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, after listening for a couple hours with the ECC35 tubes in my WA22, I’ve found that the mids seem to be more pronounced and lush sounding, but the highs seem less detailed and over pronounced and less defined. Could this be because of the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, or even the USAF 596 rectifier tube that I’m using? Would you suggest that I do more listening with the ECC35’s before I attempt some tube rolling? The upper register harshness was less pronounced when I used the low impedance setting on my WA22.



I think u can try using them a bit more. Are these NOS or used? 

I also used them with Ts5998 and also we421a tubes. But I have no experience with the usaf596 rec.


----------



## bpcans (Sep 24, 2021)

Roasty said:


> I think u can try using them a bit more. Are these NOS or used?
> 
> I also used them with Ts5998 and also we421a tubes. But I have no experience with the usaf596 rec.


@Roasty, yes they’re NOS and seemed in great condition considering when they were produced.


----------



## Roasty

Probably still early stages then. Tubes need some good usage before settling in. I enjoyed them right out of the box though. If u have a different rec tube, I suppose no harm in giving it a go.


----------



## cddc

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, after listening for a couple hours with the ECC35 tubes in my WA22, I’ve found that the mids seem to be more pronounced and lush sounding, but the highs seem less detailed and over pronounced and less defined. Could this be because of the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, or even the USAF 596 rectifier tube that I’m using? Would you suggest that I do more listening with the ECC35’s before I attempt some tube rolling? The upper register harshness was less pronounced when I used the low impedance setting on my WA22.



This could well be the case. I don't think giving it some more time will bring you a drastic change, considering you've already run it many hours.

The only good thing about Mullard is its lush mids, nothing else. Mullard 6080 does the same thing, lack of definition in the highs/lows, far crappier performance than the top 6080/6AS7G tubes. I myself is not a fan of these hyped Mullard tubes.


----------



## cddc

Some guys mainly on vocals might like the Mullard sound, but not me, I'm more for an overall balanced tube excellent in all high/mid/low registries, something like a TS BGRP.


----------



## bpcans (Sep 24, 2021)

Roasty said:


> Probably still early stages then. Tubes need some good usage before settling in. I enjoyed them right out of the box though. If u have a different rec tube, I suppose no harm in giving it a go.


@Roasty, I really looked these these tubes over carefully before I put them into my WA22, and to my eyes they appear to be brand new and unused. So I just went and turned my amplifier on, and I’ve decided to just let them settle in with some current going through them before I start mucking around with digging up my other tubes to try with them. As I remember my 5998 power tubes are in my own way of saying it “kinda gainey”. So it could just be a matter of finding the right combination of tubes. I’ll listen more today and see how it goes. Thanks again


----------



## bpcans

cddc said:


> Some guys mainly on vocals might like the Mullard sound, but not me, I'm more for an overall balanced tube excellent in all high/mid/low registries, something like a TS BGRP.


@cddc, the Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers that I was using have a great deal of detail and crispness with more overall clarity to the music. So worst case scenario I’ll have an extra pair of vintage NOS ECC35’s tubes around for tube rolling in the future.


----------



## Roasty

@bpcans give them some time. The mullard ECC35 gave me the best sound out of the WA22. The guy I sold the WA22 to ended up buying my last pair of ECC35 tubes and he said the same thing. 

I can't say the same for the mullard 6080 tubes which sounded dull to me. Those power tubes may have been my worst tube purchase.

I ran my WA22 with the susvara and abyss and the ECC35 + 5998 combo gave a whole lot of gain. What other recs do u have? 

I guess if you end up not liking the ECC35, it'll be easy to sell considering the price u got them for.


----------



## bpcans (Sep 24, 2021)

Roasty said:


> @bpcans give them some time. The mullard ECC35 gave me the best sound out of the WA22. The guy I sold the WA22 to ended up buying my last pair of ECC35 tubes and he said the same thing.
> 
> I can't say the same for the mullard 6080 tubes which sounded dull to me. Those power tubes may have been my worst tube purchase.
> 
> ...


@Roasty, for other rectifiers I have the 5U4G that came with the WA22 from Woo, and a very nice Sophia Electric 274 B that I bought years ago, and which sounds super lush, but wasn’t a good match with the SE 6SN7’s because the combination was too syrupy and a little muddy sounding to my ears. This morning what I’ve done is really turn down the volume pot to about 8:30/8:45 as a clock reference. Whereas before I had the volume up around 9:45 to ten o’clock with the 6SN7’s. Actually these ECC35’s have only been getting current into them for about 5 hours since I got them yesterday. I often use this recording of Mozart’s symphony #39 as a reference when adding new gear into my listening chain.


----------



## alishafai (Sep 24, 2021)

bpcans said:


> Thanks for the heads up Roasty. I take it that the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes are a vast improvement over the supplied Westinghouse 6080’s? Are either the Mullards or the TS tubes outrageously expensive? https://wooaudio.com/tubes/tungsol-5998-pair Never mind Roasty, I found them. And yes they are crazy priced.





Roasty said:


> Enjoy the new amp!
> Let me save you some trouble.. I went through the whole merry go round of tubes for this amp. Source some TS5998 power tubes! And if you can get Mullard ECC35 tubes, you'll be pretty much done.


Hi @Roasty - So, I have been reading through this thread, as I have a WA22 incoming, and want to ask you about which rectifier tubes you might recommend?

Thank you,
Ali


----------



## alishafai (Sep 24, 2021)

UntilThen said:


> Quiet as a whisper and still lovely compared with other tube amps I've owned.


What are those tubes you're running?


----------



## UntilThen

alishafai said:


> What are tubes that you are running?



In that picture they are:- Ken Rad 6sn7gt black glass, GEC 6080 and Cossor 53ku rectifier. That was sometime ago. I had already sold off my LCD-X.


----------



## denniswaugh

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, for other rectifiers I have the 5U4G that came with the WA22 from Woo, and a very nice Sophia Electric 274 B that I bought years ago, and which sounds super lush, but wasn’t a good match with the SE 6SN7’s because the combination was too syrupy and a little muddy sounding to my ears. This morning what I’ve done is really turn down the volume pot to about 8:30/8:45 as a clock reference. Whereas before I had the volume up around 9:45 to ten o’clock with the 6SN7’s. Actually these ECC35’s have only been getting current into them for about 5 hours since I got them yesterday. I often use this recording of Mozart’s symphony #39 as a reference when adding new gear into my listening chain.


Hi bpcans, 
A while back my goto combination was Osram GZ37 fat bottle, Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6AS7G. 
I spent a lot of time swapping between this combo and WE421a/TSRP6sn7/TS5998. I always thought of them as my UK v US battle of the valves/tubes. 
I could never decide which combo I preferred. Both very musical combinations but both were a bit to "euphoric" for want of a better word. 
 I wanted a slightly drier presentation and ended up with the Melz1578. 

Eventually after so much time swapping between different combinations, I settled on Mullard U52/Melz1578/GEC 6AS7G which I've settled on for the past 12 months. 
The Melz1578 is a great tube. IMO it's a tube to try if your looking for the best 6sn7s, together with the TSRP and Mullard ecc35(6sl7).
The real problem I've found with the Melz is bad solder that's a pita to sort out. I've 6 of them and 3 were bad. 

Another rectifier that I liked a lot is the Rca5u4g hanging filament (early 1940's). Not too expensive.


----------



## bpcans

denniswaugh said:


> Hi bpcans,
> A while back my goto combination was Osram GZ37 fat bottle, Mullard ECC35 and GEC 6AS7G.
> I spent a lot of time swapping between this combo and WE421a/TSRP6sn7/TS5998. I always thought of them as my UK v US battle of the valves/tubes.
> I could never decide which combo I preferred. Both very musical combinations but both were a bit to "euphoric" for want of a better word.
> ...


@denniswaugh, thank you for taking the time to tell me about your tube rolling with the WA22. I really have enjoyed the USAF 596 rectifier, Tung Sol 5998 power, and Sophia Electric 6SN7 driver tube combo for the last year and a half that are in the attached photo. But these NOS ECC35 drivers have such a different presentation that I think that I‘ll need more time to get used to them.


----------



## denniswaugh

The ECC35 is a higher gain tube than the 6SN7 so you don't need to turn up the volume as much. I found that the combination of ECC35 and TS5998 was a little bit too energetic.
The GEC 6AS7G tamed it down a little. 
IMO the 6SN7 worked better with the TS5998.


----------



## bpcans

denniswaugh said:


> The ECC35 is a higher gain tube than the 6SN7 so you don't need to turn up the volume as much. I found that the combination of ECC35 and TS5998 was a little bit too energetic.
> The GEC 6AS7G tamed it down a little.
> IMO the 6SN7 worked better with the TS5998.


@denniswaugh, I’ve only had time to listen to a little jazz and some classical so far. Tonight I’ll throw some classic rock and funk in the mix.


----------



## denniswaugh

I should mention that I basically tuned the WA22 with the U52/Melz1578/GEC 6AS7G for my LCD4. The synergy works for me. 
Obviously this combination would sound different with other headphones.


----------



## bpcans

denniswaugh said:


> I should mention that I basically tuned the WA22 with the U52/Melz1578/GEC 6AS7G for my LCD4. The synergy works for me.
> Obviously this combination would sound different with other headphones.


@denniswaugh, my main hp’s are my Focal Utopia’s. So I’ve setup my entire listening chain to be as good as it can for them. After reading through this forum, and getting some great input from @Roasty and others, I decided to give the ECC35’s a try. Hi-fi is a hobby of mine, and I like to have fun with it. Besides, how often do you get a package all the way from Belgium 🇧🇪 with vacuum tubes that were made over 60yrs ago in it? It’s almost like getting in a time machine. At this point listening to music with them in my WA22 amplifier is all a bonus.


----------



## denniswaugh

The magic of tubes. There amazing.
I think most if not all of my top tubes are older than me (64yrs)


----------



## bpcans

denniswaugh said:


> The magic of tubes. There amazing.
> I think most if not all of my top tubes are older than me (64yrs)


Ha ha @denniswaugh, I just turned 65 on the 9th. I got my first “real hi-fi system” when I was a junior in college in 1976.


----------



## denniswaugh

Funnily enough, my first real hifi (seperates, not a music center) was 1976. SS of course.
 My first headphones were 1977 and I think they were Denco?


----------



## jonathan c

denniswaugh said:


> The magic of tubes. There amazing.
> I think most if not all of my top tubes are older than me (64yrs)


I wish….All my top tubes are younger than me (LXVIII)…Brimar CV455 KB/FB (Footscray 1956)…Melz 1578 6N8S (1963)…I do not need equalisation…the wallet is perfectly flat after buying tubes…


----------



## Roasty

alishafai said:


> Hi @Roasty - So, I have been reading through this thread, as I have a WA22 incoming, and want to ask you about which rectifier tubes you might recommend?
> 
> Thank you,
> Ali



if budget is not an issue, TAK 274B.
otherwise, i also quite like the EML 5u4G and KR274B (not tried in wa22, but in wa33).
the Sophia is another option, but i liked the EML one over the Sophia.
GZ32 Mullard sounded a bit thick to me. 
Oddly, as much as i liked the WE421a power tubes, i did not really like the 422a rectifier all that much.


----------



## Bard Rich

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, I really looked these these tubes over carefully before I put them into my WA22, and to my eyes they appear to be brand new and unused. So I just went and turned my amplifier on, and I’ve decided to just let them settle in with some current going through them before I start mucking around with digging up my other tubes to try with them. As I remember my 5998 power tubes are in my own way of saying it “kinda gainey”. So it could just be a matter of finding the right combination of tubes. I’ll listen more today and see how it goes. Thanks again


Bro, if you don't want it anymore, please sell to me. That day i missed to buy it from @Roasty 😂😂😂


----------



## alishafai

Roasty said:


> if budget is not an issue, TAK 274B.
> otherwise, i also quite like the EML 5u4G and KR274B (not tried in wa22, but in wa33).
> the Sophia is another option, but i liked the EML one over the Sophia.
> GZ32 Mullard sounded a bit thick to me.
> Oddly, as much as i liked the WE421a power tubes, i did not really like the 422a rectifier all that much.


Thank you; I appreciate it.


----------



## bpcans

Bard Rich said:


> Bro, if you don't want it anymore, please sell to me. That day i missed to buy it from @Roasty 😂😂😂


@Bard Rich, I’ve got nothing for you man.  You’ve been nothing but trouble for me since we crossed paths in this crazy hobby. It seems that you’re always encouraging me to upgrade my system and buy more super expensive audio gear. Hey, who am I going to blame, my wife?


----------



## bpcans (Sep 25, 2021)

Roasty said:


> if budget is not an issue, TAK 274B.
> otherwise, i also quite like the EML 5u4G and KR274B (not tried in wa22, but in wa33).
> the Sophia is another option, but i liked the EML one over the Sophia.
> GZ32 Mullard sounded a bit thick to me.
> Oddly, as much as i liked the WE421a power tubes, i did not really like the 422a rectifier all that much.


@Roasty, now you’ve got me thoroughly intrigued and excited because I’m wondering how the Takatsuki TA-274B rectifier would compliment the Tung-Sol 5998‘s, and the NOS ECC35’s that I just got in my WA22.  https://takatsuki-denki.co.jp/en/products/ta-274b.html.


----------



## attmci

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, after listening for a couple hours with the ECC35 tubes in my WA22, I’ve found that the mids seem to be more pronounced and lush sounding, but the highs seem less detailed and over pronounced and less defined. Could this be because of the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes, or even the USAF 596 rectifier tube that I’m using? Would you suggest that I do more listening with the ECC35’s before I attempt some tube rolling? The upper register harshness was less pronounced when I used the low impedance setting on my WA22.


We both use a 422A I believe.  Also try different cans you have. 5998 should sounds similar to the 421A/clear-top 5998.


----------



## attmci

cddc said:


> This could well be the case. I don't think giving it some more time will bring you a drastic change, considering you've already run it many hours.
> 
> The only good thing about Mullard is its lush mids, nothing else. Mullard 6080 does the same thing, lack of definition in the highs/lows, far crappier performance than the top 6080/6AS7G tubes. I myself is not a fan of these hyped Mullard tubes.


We are talking about a high gain driver tube here.


----------



## attmci (Sep 27, 2021)

attmci said:


> We both use a 422A I believe.  Also try different cans you have. 5998 should sounds similar to the 421A/clear-top 5998.


He might got a lemon 🍋. Lol.

I have all of those high-end rectifier tubes, the 422A stay.


----------



## bpcans (Sep 27, 2021)

attmci said:


> He might got a lemon 🍋. Lol.
> 
> I have all of those high-end rectifier tubes, the 422A stay.


@attmci, since you’ve bought and tried all of the high end rectifier tubes, what do you think of the Takatsuki TA-274B, why are the Western Electric 422A rectifier tubes so coveted and expensive, and what is the predominant sound characteristic of these two tubes?


----------



## bpcans

These Mullard Philips ECC35 driver tubes are still a bit sibilant in the upper registers after about 20hrs of listening. I’m just wondering how long before they settle down and become more comfortable to listen to music with?


----------



## Roasty

@bpcans Both pairs I had sounded lovely. I can't recommend anything else other than continued use, or try changing rectifiers. All the best man!


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> @bpcans Both pairs I had sounded lovely. I can't recommend anything else other than continued use, or try changing rectifiers. All the best man!


@Roasty, I think what it took for me to get comfortable with how the ECC35’s sound was to listen for a few more hours and learn how to modulate the volume on the WA22. After hundreds of hours using the Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers, the ECC35’s simply presented a different sound signature that I wasn’t quite used to.


----------



## bpcans

Is anybody else using a Sophia Electric Princess Mesh Plate 274B rectifier tube in their WA22? I sent my USAF 596 to a friend in Cali to try in his WA33, and I dug this tube out of my collection to see how it sounds. It’s gotta be 10yrs old easily, but with very few hours on it. Damn near brand new.


----------



## jbua5150

I have a Sophia. I have rolled many different rectifiers (and enjoy most all in my collection) but keep coming back to her.


----------



## bpcans

jbua5150 said:


> I have a Sophia. I have rolled many different rectifiers (and enjoy most all in my collection) but keep coming back to her.


jbua5150, have you tried the Western Electric 422A rectifier tube in your amplifier? I ask because that’s what my friend is sending me to give a listen to.


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> jbua5150, have you tried the Western Electric 422A rectifier tube in your amplifier? I ask because that’s what my friend is sending me to give a listen to.


I have not had the opportunity to hear the WE 422a. 
I'm very new to tubes, and most of mine aren't very "high end".
Just today I received a NOS JAN CHS 5U4G, and I will be rolling that in tonight!


----------



## bpcans

jbua5150 said:


> I have not had the opportunity to hear the WE 422a.
> I'm very new to tubes, and most of mine aren't very "high end".
> Just today I received a NOS JAN CHS 5U4G, and I will be rolling that in tonight!


jbua5150, very nice! What are you using for driver tubes?


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> jbua5150, very nice! What are you using for driver tubes?


I’m currently using Tung-Sol 6C8G for drivers.  
They have the original boxes and are from 1945!
I love how old these things are.  So far my “oldest” tubes sound the best…..


----------



## bpcans (Oct 5, 2021)

jbua5150 said:


> I’m currently using Tung-Sol 6C8G for drivers.
> They have the original boxes and are from 1945!
> I love how old these things are.  So far my “oldest” tubes sound the best…..


jbua5150, those are so cool! My oldest tubes are the Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers that were made in the fifties, and are NOS but came without the original boxes. They’re smallish in size, but they have a big sound.


----------



## jbua5150 (Oct 5, 2021)

bpcans said:


> jbua5150, those are so cool! My oldest tubes are the Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers that were made in the fifties, and are NOS but came without the original boxes. They’re smallish in size, but they have a big sound.


I was watching that listing on ebay too!  I saw your posting about bidding on them, and I refrained bidding. (also I'm VERY happy with the TS 6C8G)
I've had this silly desire to have all USA made tubes in the amp.  Tonight with the addition of my new JAN CHS 5U4G (made in 1944), my USA tube dreams are complete.  lol
I've had the 5U4G in for only a few minutes, but like what I'm hearing so far.  I mostly only listen to Rock and Roll on the tube amps.

Edit: I'm still blown away that Rectifiers change the sound as much as they do.


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, what do I owe y’a for not outbidding me?


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> @jbua5150, what do I owe y’a for not outbidding me?


😂


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> @jbua5150, what do I owe y’a for not outbidding me?


They don’t really fit into my “USA made radar” anyways.  🙃


----------



## Sound Quality

Roasty said:


> Oh my gosh..
> 
> So I've been living with the hum from the Wa22 for so long.
> 
> ...


Are you still using the merlin power cable with your WA33?


----------



## Roasty

Sound Quality said:


> Are you still using the merlin power cable with your WA33?



The merlin got sold a long time ago. I'm using twl obsession + AQ niagara 1200 with the WA33.


----------



## bpcans (Oct 6, 2021)

Roasty said:


> The merlin got sold a long time ago. I'm using twl obsession + AQ niagara 1200 with the WA33.


@Roasty, I’m presently using an AudioQuest Thunder power cable with my AQ Niagara 1200, and I’m wondering if replacing the Thunder with the Obsession power cable would yield any noticeable improvements in sound quality? https://triodewirelabs.com/product/the-obsession-statement-series/


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, I’m presently using an AudioQuest Thunder power cable with my AQ Niagara 1200, and I’m wondering if replacing the Thunder with the Obsession power cable would yield any noticeable improvements in sound quality? https://triodewirelabs.com/product/the-obsession-statement-series/



I have the AQ Thunders and I quite like them. They seem to impart a more mellow sound, with some emphasis on the midbass and low end. The Obsession is the opposite and had a tighter sound with more emphasis on the highs. It also seems like a cleaner and blacker background with the TWL cord. Both cords are used in my system but I just prefer the TWL with the Wa33.


----------



## bpcans (Oct 6, 2021)

Roasty said:


> I have the AQ Thunders and I quite like them. They seem to impart a more mellow sound, with some emphasis on the midbass and low end. The Obsession is the opposite and had a tighter sound with more emphasis on the highs. It also seems like a cleaner and blacker background with the TWL cord. Both cords are used in my system but I just prefer the TWL with the Wa33.


@Roasty, thanks for taking the time to tell me about the sonic differences you found between the Thunder and Obsession power cables. I’m going to track the TWL down for a home audition so I can compare it to another AQ power cable, the Hurricane, which I’ve heard is also very nice. I’m swapping rectifiers with a friend from California. I sent him my USAF 596, and he’s sending me a Western Electric 422A to try in my WA22. We’re both using Sophia Electric Princess 274b’s in the mean time, except his amp is a WA33. I tried the stock Shu Gong rectifier 274b that Mike Liang at Woo Audio sent with the WA22. It’s okay, but a little dry sounding to my ears.


----------



## bpcans

So I got some new tubes to try from a friend in California for my WA22. Two vintage Sylvania metal base 6SN7’s, and a Western Electric 422A rectifier. Haven’t gotten around to the Sylvania’s yet because I’m still enjoying the Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers. But the sound of my system using the 422A is very nice indeed. Really good soundstage and bass extension.


----------



## bpcans

Just when things were sounding beautiful, the metal base of one of the vintage Sylvania 6SN7 driver tubes that a friend had loaned me to try, broke off as I was seating it in my WA22 amplifier, leaving the remnants of the seating post stuck in the socket. Since I live on a remote island in northern Wisconsin, I had no other recourse but to send it to Mike Liang at Woo Audio in NY for repair.


----------



## cddc

bpcans said:


> Just when things were sounding beautiful, the metal base of one of the vintage Sylvania 6SN7 driver tubes that a friend had loaned me to try, broke off as I was seating it in my WA22 amplifier, leaving the remnants of the seating post stuck in the socket. Since I live on a remote island in northern Wisconsin, I had no other recourse but to send it to Mike Liang at Woo Audio in NY for repair.




For a simple task like this you don't need to send it back to Woo for repair. Just get a pair of needle-nose pliers and get the remnants out of the socket, it won't have any impact on the amp.


----------



## cddc

If the pliers can't get it out, try to break the plastic part that sticks out out of the socket with pliers, and push the remaining part down into the amp case. Then open the case and remove the plastic, or leave it in the case since plastic is non-conductor and won't affect the amp operation. Be sure to look down the central hole on the other good socket that there is no wires underneath the central hole (might need flashlight for help), so that when pushing down the remnant it won't break any connection below the socket.

Of course the best way is to grab the plastic part that sticks out with pliers and pull it out.


----------



## cddc

BTW, you need to know the orientation of the tube so that when you plug it into the amp next time you don't plug it in the wrong direction. The tube should still work fine.

Find out the location of the guiding slot on the broken pin - the part that sticks out, and mark out that location on the tube base with some color. That location corresponds to the guiding slot on the socket when plugging in tubes.


----------



## cddc

I just checked the sockets on WA22, no wires under the central hole.

The best and easiest approach is to pull the remnant out with a pair of needle-nose pliers. The next best approach is to open the amp case, and push out the remnant out of the socket from beneath with a stick.


----------



## bpcans

@cddc, this specific tube was made over 60 years ago. Any attempts that I made to remove the post caused it to crumble into tiny flakes which lodged themselves in every crevice of the socket.


----------



## cddc

bpcans said:


> @cddc, this specific tube was made over 60 years ago. Any attempts that I made to remove the post caused it to crumble into tiny flakes which lodged themselves in every crevice of the socket.



Q-tip and alcohol can take care of the flakes, if you are concerned about them, then use the next best approach - open up the case and push the remnant out of the socket from beneath with a stick, a screwdriver will be perfect for the task.


----------



## bpcans

cddc said:


> Q-tip and alcohol can take care of the flakes, if you are concerned about them, then use the next best approach - open up the case and push the remnant out of the socket from beneath with a stick, a screwdriver will be perfect for the task.


@cddc, thank you so much for all of the Maintinence tips on how to clean out the driver socket on my WA22. Alas it arrived in Long Island City, NY, for Woo to look over early this afternoon. I think somehow I had it in my mind to trade my amp in for a WA33. We shall see how things progress.


----------



## cddc

bpcans said:


> @cddc, thank you so much for all of the Maintinence tips on how to clean out the driver socket on my WA22. Alas it arrived in Long Island City, NY, for Woo to look over early this afternoon. I think somehow I had it in my mind to trade my amp in for a WA33. We shall see how things progress.



You're welcome, at least you'll know what to do if something gets stuck in the socket next time...quite rare thou


----------



## duranxv

Anyone use the Woo amps with a Verite Closed?


----------



## plb0202

G’day All,  

New WA22 owner.  Listened to the stock tubes for 30 hours or so. Liked the sound but didn’t love it. Rolled in a “mighty 596” as the rectifier. OMG what a step up. 

Now working through this thread to figure out the next pair to roll in.  Thanks to all for the invaluable info published here.


----------



## Roasty

Every time I see a new WA22 in the thread, the regret of selling mine kicks in..


----------



## alekc

Roasty said:


> Every time I see a new WA22 in the thread, the regret of selling mine kicks in..


@Roasty this bring obvious question to the table: why did you sell it in the first place?


----------



## Roasty

@alekc I added 11 to the 22..
Oh well. 

The WA22 price/performance ratio is so good. And a small footprint too.. Plus the tubes combo and vast selection of usable tubes. U guys have it good.


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> @alekc I added 11 to the 22..
> Oh well.
> 
> The WA22 price/performance ratio is so good. And a small footprint too.. Plus the tubes combo and vast selection of usable tubes. U guys have it good.


Well you have the Wa33, it's not like you didn't find a worthy successor. 

Now Woo even offers some new drivers (pricey but interesting)


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> Every time I see a new WA22 in the thread, the regret of selling mine kicks in..


@Roasty, why would you ever sell any Woo amplifier that works? I had sent my WA22 to Mike Liang in NY for a little tune up, so I broke out the WA6 for a trip down memory lane. I seriously thought about stepping into your world by getting the 33, but my wife wants a car. Thank god I got the 22 back in only a week. I’m really liking the Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers that you recommended. But I found these vintage NIB Sylvania 6SN7’s on eBay and I couldn’t pass them up.


----------



## jonathan c

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, why would you ever sell any Woo amplifier that works? I had sent my WA22 to Mike Liang in NY for a little tune up, so I broke out the WA6 for a trip down memory lane. I seriously thought about stepping into your world by getting the 33, but my wife wants a car. Thank god I got the 22 back in only a week. I’m really liking the Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers that you recommended. But I found these vintage NIB Sylvania 6SN7’s on eBay and I couldn’t pass them up.


I truly love the WA6 (1st Gen.) with CBS/Hytron 5692 or Melz 6N8S….the Woo adapters are tremendous!


----------



## duranxv

Anyone compare the WA5-LE to the WA22?


----------



## davehg (Oct 28, 2021)

up until recently I owned both the WA5 (not LE version) and the WA22 (upgraded with Jupiter copper caps). I sold the WA5 to make room (literally as the WA5 has a big footprint) for a Leben CS600x. The WA5 is fantastic, and made everything sound brilliant. The WA22 came close but only in balanced mode with a balanced source and upgraded tubes, though both benefitted greatly from upgraded rectifier tubes. Experimenting with tubes on the WA5 is not cheap, however. 300b tubes are super costly as you go up their food chain.

If I had only a headphone system and even if I didn’t need to power speakers, the WA5 would probably still be my first pick. The Leben is a fine headphone amp but I’ve kept the WA22 as it sounds overall better with headphones on a balanced source, which Leben doesn’t support. The WA22 is super flexible with sources and headphones, offering lots of output options. The Jupiter copper cap upgrade improves on the stock caps but they take a while to break in.

I’m listening more to speakers these days however, and I may ultimately decide to sell off the WA22 with some headphones too but let’s see what winter brings. Posts like the above keep me from selling.


----------



## plb0202

duranxv said:


> Anyone use the Woo amps with a Verite Closed?


I’ll let you know in a few weeks.


----------



## lumdicks (Oct 28, 2021)

Start rolling from stock tubes with RCA Victor 6SN7 and Fivre 5R4G. Bass is much tighter with sweet mid and smooth high.

Eagerly awaiting for arrival of my Sylvania 6SN7 and 7236.


----------



## u2u2

Roasty said:


> @alekc I added 11 to the 22..
> Oh well.
> 
> The WA22 price/performance ratio is so good. And a small footprint too.. Plus the tubes combo and vast selection of usable tubes. U guys have it good.


That captures why I will never sell my gen 1 22. Well that plus a 33 is a little too dear. Stretching for the amp is one thing but you owners have to consider upgrades and added tube rolling costs...
My 22 and 6 are seeing extra duty this week as my new main amp is being cantankerous... again. Need to roll a new set of tubes into that beast. Four sets in four months. Not a Woo though.
Thinking of a little tube therapy. Avoided the mighty 596 for some 6 years now. plb0202 post has me twitching over the add to cart button. 

Is there any down side to the 596 on a WA22 or WA6?


----------



## plb0202

u2u2 said:


> That captures why I will never sell my gen 1 22. Well that plus a 33 is a little too dear. Stretching for the amp is one thing but you owners have to consider upgrades and added tube rolling costs...
> My 22 and 6 are seeing extra duty this week as my new main amp is being cantankerous... again. Need to roll a new set of tubes into that beast. Four sets in four months. Not a Woo though.
> Thinking of a little tube therapy. Avoided the mighty 596 for some 6 years now. plb0202 post has me twitching over the add to cart button.
> 
> Is there any down side to the 596 on a WA22 or WA6?


@u2u2 Dubstep Girls rectifier thread provides a pretty good insight into the 596. 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...mparison-rectifer-tube-rolling-thread.694525/


----------



## bpcans (Oct 28, 2021)

u2u2 said:


> Avoided the mighty 596 for some 6 years now. plb0202 post has me twitching over the add to cart button.
> 
> Is there any down side to the 596 on a WA22 or W6?


@u2u2, from my experience of using the USAF 596 in both my WA6 and WA22 there is no downside whatsoever.


----------



## bpcans

I’m back in busines!


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> I’m back in busines!



Nice! How come you're using a Furutech support for your headphone cable?


----------



## plb0202

Does anyone happen to know what the three numbers on the USAF 596 rectifier are representing?

Just noticed mine has 7-26 and have seen others posted here with different values.  I am assuming it may be an indicator of date of manufacture and wondering how to interpret it.


----------



## plb0202

Also came across this today, 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml

Seems more up-to-date than the User Manual for compatible tubes.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> Nice! How come you're using a Furutech support for your headphone cable?


@Roasty, because this Danacable Lazuli Ultra hp cable is pretty robust, and I like to keep it supported at the 4-pin connector.


----------



## CAJames

davehg said:


> ...I’m listening more to speakers these days however, and I may ultimately decide to sell off the WA22 with some headphones too but let’s see what winter brings. Posts like the above keep me from selling.



Me too, and I really like the WA22 as both a preamp and headphone amp. If you are balanced in and balanced out it is a great way to go.


----------



## lumdicks (Oct 29, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Start rolling from stock tubes with RCA Victor 6SN7 and Fivre 5R4G. Bass is much tighter with sweet mid and smooth high.
> 
> Eagerly awaiting for arrival of my Sylvania 6SN7 and 7236.


Got my Sylvania 6SN7WGT and 7236. What a step up from the previous RCA combo in soundstage but the background hum became more noticeable at the right channel. Will let it burn in for some days and share.

Just got an amazing deal at Amazon Japan for AR 274B at JPY22,000 (USD200) each, and the price resumed back to JPY49,000 after my placing order. Hopefully it will arrive in 10 days.


----------



## duranxv

Alright, so I just pulled the trigger on the WA22.  I hope it pairs well with my VC!  I plan to use my Sparkos Aries solid state as a pre-amp, so hopefully that'll enhance the experience with the WA22!


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Alright, so I just pulled the trigger on the WA22.  I hope it pairs well with my VC!  I plan to use my Sparkos Aries solid state as a pre-amp, so hopefully that'll enhance the experience with the WA22!


@duranxv, congratulations on ordering a WA22. Is VC short for Vérité closed back headphones?


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> @duranxv, congratulations on ordering a WA22. Is VC short for Vérité closed back headphones?



Thanks!

Yep!


----------



## bpcans (Nov 2, 2021)

Today we’re doing a little rectifier tube shootout with my WA22 between the much loved Sophia Electric Princess 274B, the highly regarded General Electric 422A, and a stock 274B from Woo Audio. The other tubes being used are two Tung Sol 5998 power tubes and two Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers. Which rectifier will come out on top? First up, a not too shabby opera by some guy named Wolfgang.


----------



## Wes S

bpcans said:


> Today we’re doing a little rectifier tube shootout with my WA22 between the much loved Sophia Electric Princess 274B, the highly regarded General Electric 422A, and a stock 274B from Woo Audio. The other tubes being used are two Tung Sol 5998 power tubes and two Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers. Which rectifier will come out on top? First up, a not too shabby opera by some guy named Wolfgang.


My money is on the Western Electric. . .


----------



## lumdicks

Bad boys at home! Can't wait trying this with my ordered KR274b on WA22.


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> Bad boys at home! Can't wait trying this with my ordered KR274b on WA22.


@lumdicks, I’m using two Tung-Sol 5998‘s in my WA22, and I love the way they sound. I’ll be interested to read your impressions of the 421a’s. Where did you find them?


----------



## whirlwind

Wes S said:


> My money is on the Western Electric. . .


ditto!


----------



## bpcans

whirlwind said:


> ditto!


@whirlwind, I’ve been using this recording of Richard Wagner’s Ring Cycle for audio gear demos for over 40 years. So far I’ve been enjoying the sound of the Sophia Electric Princess 274b, because with it the overall timbre of the music has a more lifelike and full-bodied presentation than that of the GE 422a, which is a tad more detailed, but with less soundstage.


----------



## Roasty

@bpcans just bite the bullet and get the tak274b. You won't regret it. Best thing is u can still use it when u upgrade to the wa33... Heh..


----------



## whirlwind (Nov 4, 2021)

bpcans said:


> @whirlwind, I’ve been using this recording of Richard Wagner’s Ring Cycle for audio gear demos for over 40 years. So far I’ve been enjoying the sound of the Sophia Electric Princess 274b, because with it the overall timbre of the music has a more lifelike and full-bodied presentation than that of the GE 422a, which is a tad more detailed, but with less soundstage.


Very interesting. Not at all what I expected. I would have thought WE422A all day.
I have never heard one, Cossor 53KU is my favorite that I own.
You still own any Grado's...I remember you from that thread a few moons ago.


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 5, 2021)

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, I’m using two Tung-Sol 5998‘s in my WA22, and I love the way they sound. I’ll be interested to read your impressions of the 421a’s. Where did you find them?


I got this matched pair in a shop in Hong Kong at around USD600. Will wait for delivery of the KR274b tomorrow and test them together. Driver tubes are Sylvania 6SN7WGT.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> @bpcans just bite the bullet and get the tak274b. You won't regret it. Best thing is u can still use it when u upgrade to the wa33... Heh..


@Roasty, the Takatsuki is still on my rectifier radar. But my friend Kyle from California, who had the Tak in his WA22 before he traded up to the 33, said it sounded very nice but lacked the bass and mid-bass punch that he likes. He sold the Takatsuki and now is in hog heaven because I loaned him my USAF 596, which he hasn’t sent back to me yet.


----------



## bpcans

whirlwind said:


> Very interesting. Not at all what I expected. I would have thought WE422A all day.
> I have never heard one, Cossor 53KU is my favorite that I own.
> You still own any Grado's...I remember you from that thread a few moons ago.


@whirlwind, it’s all coming back to me now. I still have my beloved Grado RS1i’s. Before I heard the Utopia’s I had the GS3000e’s, and man those were so nice that I might end up getting them again.


----------



## whirlwind

bpcans said:


> @whirlwind, it’s all coming back to me now. I still have my beloved Grado RS1i’s. Before I heard the Utopia’s I had the GS3000e’s, and man those were so nice that I might end up getting them again.


I have been entertaining the thought of trying an upper tier Grado.


----------



## bpcans

whirlwind said:


> I have been entertaining the thought of trying an upper tier Grado.


@whirlwind, the nice thing about even the upper tier Grados is that most legit audio gear dealers have no trouble lending them out for home auditions. If I did get the 3000e’s again I’d definitely swap out the atrocious cable that Grado uses for something much better, and terminated in either a dual 3-pin or single 4-pin XLR connector. I know several concert symphony musician, and non of them use TOTL hp’s like Abyss, HiFiMan, or Focal, to listen to music or practice with at their homes. Most all of them use Grados, and a couple use Sennheiser 800’s, and one guy whose got a whole recording studio in his house uses BeyerDynamic’s.


----------



## whirlwind

I am not a fan of those heavy Grado cables either, they should come with a much lighter cable IMO.
At least have options for their upper tier


----------



## bpcans

whirlwind said:


> I am not a fan of those heavy Grado cables either, they should come with a much lighter cable IMO.
> At least have options for their upper tier


@whirlwind, on the Woo website there was an option for getting a 4-pin XLR connector but it’s sold out now. https://wooaudio.com/headphones/gs3000e. But personally I prefer the folks at Moon Audio because I like their products and their customer service. https://www.moon-audio.com/grado-gs...MI2cjnzc7_8wIVxDY4Ch389ARqEAYYASABEgIC3PD_BwE.


----------



## Roasty

@bpcans the tak274b gives me the best bass, mids and 3d effect. Hope u get the chance to listen to one!


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> @bpcans the tak274b gives me the best bass, mids and 3d effect. Hope u get the chance to listen to one!


@Roasty, is that when using the Takatsuki 274b in both your old 22 and your present WA33, or just in the 33?


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, is that when using the Takatsuki 274b in both your old 22 and your present WA33, or just in the 33?



Both. 
The tak is in the amp most of the time. I switch to other recs for variety once in a while. but always look forward to going back to the tak.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> Both.
> The tak is in the amp most of the time. I switch to other recs for variety once in a while. but always look forward to going back to the tak.


@Roasty, thanks for your recommendation on the Tak 274b. I’ll keep my eye out for a good used one or a new one if I have to.


----------



## plb0202

How do you determine when a rectifier is  no longer any good?  Other than sparks coming out of the bottom of your amp? Is there someway to test that a rectifier has had its day?


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 5, 2021)

Glad to report that I have achieved my endgame of tube rolling on WA22 (at least temporarily) with below:

Rectifier: KR Audio 274b
Drivers: Sylvania 6SN7WGT
Power: Western Electric 421a

All of the above are NOS so I expect at least 150 hours for full burn in.
The tube combination simply tick all boxes of my preference, with tight and deep bass, sweet mid and smooth treble. Imaging is excellent with resolving sound. Previously I experienced a faint hum at the right channel but after changing the rectifier to KR274b, it is dead silent now. Sound quality is a leap forward to stock tubes so despite I have spent quite a fortune on these tubes, it worths every penny. With the higher power of WE421a, the WA22 drives the Susvara beautifully at sufficient volume with amazing dynamics and soundstage at around 11 to 12 o'clock on the volume pot.

Below is my signal path in case anyone is interested:
Roon → Lumin U1 Mini → Chord Mscaler → Chord Hugo TT2 → WA22 → Hifiman Susvara

It also sounds marvelously at preamp mode to my Kinki THR-1.


----------



## bpcans

@lumdicks, my god man you’ve done it. Congratulations sir. Nice tubes in a great amplifier. And might I say that I really like your listening chain. I’m presently waiting on this pair of Sylvania 6SN7’s, but they’re stuck in the USPS system somewhere. I’ve been holding back on getting either the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s or the HiFiMan Susvara’s because of my concerns about the WA22’s ability to properly drive them. I had the Phi TC’s in my hands, but I didn’t take them home because their fit is so wonky and not nearly as comfortable as my Utopia’s. Plus the sound of the upper-mids in the vocal range was kinda meh, and not what I would expect from a TOTL hp. Incredible bass though. I’ve heard that the Susvara’s are really neutral sounding where everything is there, just not overblown, but very nice to listen too. I tend to have extended listening sessions these days while I write, and the Phi TC’s weren’t the right animal for that job.


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, my god man you’ve done it. Congratulations sir. Nice tubes in a great amplifier. And might I say that I really like your listening chain. I’m presently waiting on this pair of Sylvania 6SN7’s, but they’re stuck in the USPS system somewhere. I’ve been holding back on getting either the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s or the HiFiMan Susvara’s because of my concerns about the WA22’s ability to properly drive them. I had the Phi TC’s in my hands, but I didn’t take them home because their fit is so wonky and not nearly as comfortable as my Utopia’s. Plus the sound of the upper-mids in the vocal range was kinda meh, and not what I would expect from a TOTL hp. Incredible bass though. I’ve heard that the Susvara’s are really neutral sounding where everything is there, just not overblown, but very nice to listen too. I tend to have extended listening sessions these days while I write, and the Phi TC’s weren’t the right animal for that job.


With my preferred genres on Classical, Acoustic Jazz and Vocal, I think Susvara hits all sweet spots providing that it is properly driven. I do not like much on the 1266 TC and it is too heavy and uncomfortable for me, and I think my wife would not quite like my look wearing it.

The transparency, speed, dynamic range and neutrality of Susvara is the best in Planar for sure.


----------



## bpcans

@lumdicks, do you think that the Susvara’s will stand the test of time, or will their inherent power inefficiency make them just a niche product that had its moment?


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, do you think that the Susvara’s will stand the test of time, or will their inherent power inefficiency make them just a niche product that had its moment?


Given the trend that the output power of new generation headphone amplifiers such as Ferrum OOR, Burson Soloist GT and iFi Pro DSD Signature, I do not think inefficiency of Susvara will be much an issue than before.

Susvara will be one of the legendary products in headfi for sure.


----------



## leftside

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, my god man you’ve done it. Congratulations sir. Nice tubes in a great amplifier. And might I say that I really like your listening chain. I’m presently waiting on this pair of Sylvania 6SN7’s, but they’re stuck in the USPS system somewhere. I’ve been holding back on getting either the Abyss 1266 Phi TC’s or the HiFiMan Susvara’s because of my concerns about the WA22’s ability to properly drive them. I had the Phi TC’s in my hands, but I didn’t take them home because their fit is so wonky and not nearly as comfortable as my Utopia’s. Plus the sound of the upper-mids in the vocal range was kinda meh, and not what I would expect from a TOTL hp. Incredible bass though. I’ve heard that the Susvara’s are really neutral sounding where everything is there, just not overblown, but very nice to listen too. I tend to have extended listening sessions these days while I write, and the Phi TC’s weren’t the right animal for that job.


Took me a week before I dialed in my Abyss TC correctly. They are a very different type of headphone. Had to watch a couple of Abyss YouTube videos on adjusting them.


----------



## ThanatosVI

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, do you think that the Susvara’s will stand the test of time, or will their inherent power inefficiency make them just a niche product that had its moment?


It already stood the test of time. It's among the top headphones for like 6 years by now.
Back then the inefficiency was an issue, but nowadays every new amp has sufficient energy to drive it.

Being as inefficient as it is, it usually scales a lot better with higher quality amplification. 
However even on affordable amps like e.g. Schiit Jotunheim or Topping A90 it usually sounds at least as good as most of its competition.


----------



## bpcans

The Sylvania brown base NIB 6SN7 tubes from 1958 arrived today. Original boxes and a nice flyer from that period to boot. Oh and BTW, they sound wonderful. They’re not as loud as the Mullard Philips ECC35’s. But they allow me to drive my headphones at beyond 10 o’clock on the volume pot. Very nice sound and well balanced while using a Sophia Electric Princess 274b rectifier.


----------



## Roasty

@bpcans dont know if u already have them, but I really enjoyed tungsol 6sn7gtb tall boys. Probably my second fav after the ECC35. I even preferred these (much cheaper and easily available) tubes over the 6sn7gt bad boys and kenrad/rca vt231.


----------



## davehg (Nov 7, 2021)

@plb0202 

Got to get a tube tester. I’ve got a vintage B&K and a Hickok.


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 7, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Glad to report that I have achieved my endgame of tube rolling on WA22 (at least temporarily) with below:
> 
> Rectifier: KR Audio 274b
> Drivers: Sylvania 6SN7WGT
> ...





Swapped the Sylvania with RCA Victor 6SN7, the soundstage shrinked a bit but with better details and more silent. More importantly it looks fantastic with all black base league.

Any suggestion for a better pair of drivers without breaking the bank? I am targeting at 6SN7, VT231 or ECC35.


----------



## plb0202

davehg said:


> @plb0202 Got to get a tube tester. I’ve got a vintage B&K and a Hickok.


Thanks @davehg  Are they relatively easy to use and is there much expense involved in getting one?


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> Swapped the Sylvania with RCA Victor 6SN7, the soundstage shrinked a bit but with better details and more silent. More importantly it looks fantastic with all black base league.
> 
> Any suggestion for a better pair of drivers without breaking the bank? I am targeting at 6SN7, VT231 or ECC35.


@lumdicks, in the last couple of months I’ve acquired an NOS pair of Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers which are very nice sounding and worth the money I paid for them. And then not being satisfied I just received some NIB Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s which were also produced in the mid to late 1950’s. The Sylvania’s are surprise surprise brand freaking new, so they will need to just sit in my WA22 for the foreseeable future. Let me see, I listen to music maybe a couple hours a day, so that’s 14hrs a week, 50 plus hours a month. Yeah I‘ll get to you in about two months.


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, in the last couple of months I’ve acquired an NOS pair of Mullard Philips ECC35 drivers which are very nice sounding and worth the money I paid for them. And then not being satisfied I just received some NIB Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s which were also produced in the mid to late 1950’s. The Sylvania’s are surprise surprise brand freaking new, so they will need to just sit in my WA22 for the foreseeable future. Let me see, I listen to music maybe a couple hours a day, so that’s 14hrs a week, 50 plus hours a month. Yeah I‘ll get to you in about two months.


Thanks @bpcans, would you please share more on the sound of Mullard ECC35?


----------



## bpcans

@lumdicks, well I would say that the ECC35 drivers don’t have so much of a discernible sound as they do a particular presentation. First of all they are a stronger sounding tube than most other 6SN7’s that I’ve tried. By that I mean you won’t have to turn up the volume pot as much on your WA22. They impart an excellent sense of detail and the sound of the human voice is not altered in anyway by using these tubes. Neutral and accurate is how I would describe them.


----------



## Roasty

@lumdicks 
The ECC35 have a higher mu (voltage gain) and that would account for the less volume knob travel as @bpcans has mentioned. 

I find the ECC35 more forward with mids and treble emphasis. I usually pair it with more mellow recs like tak274b. I don't like them with eml 5u4g as the sound becomes a bit too bright/intense. 

I felt vt231 and kenrad tubes a bit darker sounding. Melz was a bit too flat sounding for me. 6sn7gtb was probably the most balanced of the bunch. 

Going from normal 6sn7 drivers to ECC35 I felt was similar to going from the stock 6080 power tubes to ts5998/we421a tubes.


----------



## lumdicks

Roasty said:


> @lumdicks
> The ECC35 have a higher mu (voltage gain) and that would account for the less volume knob travel as @bpcans has mentioned.
> 
> I find the ECC35 more forward with mids and treble emphasis. I usually pair it with more mellow recs like tak274b. I don't like them with eml 5u4g as the sound becomes a bit too bright/intense.
> ...


Thanks @Roasty and @bpcans, do you have any experience on Mullard ECC32?


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 8, 2021)

lumdicks said:


> Thanks @Roasty and @bpcans, do you have any experience on Mullard ECC32?






It is my real endgame on tube rolling on WA22.

Rectifier: KR Audio 274b
Drivers: Mullard ECC32
Power: Western Electric 421a

Time to stop and listen to music.




And what a boxes.


----------



## ThanatosVI

lumdicks said:


> It is my real endgame on tube rolling on WA22.
> 
> Rectifier: KR Audio 274b
> Drivers: Mullard ECC32
> ...


Wow sick tubes, very nice choices


----------



## duranxv

Just got the WA22 today   Now the burn-in begins


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Just got the WA22 today   Now the burn-in begins


@duranxv, very nice acquisition. Do yourself a solid and never mind about all of that burn-in nonsense. Just plug some headphones into it and start enjoying the music.


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> @duranxv, very nice acquisition. Do yourself a solid and never mind about all of that burn-in nonsense. Just plug some headphones into it and start enjoying the music.



So far so good!  I've always been a solid state guy, but there's something "natural" about tubes.  I'm liking it!

For the WA22 owners here, what upgrade tubes would be best for dynamics, soundstage and bass?  Looking for some alternatives than the ones from the Woo site.


----------



## plb0202

duranxv said:


> So far so good!  I've always been a solid state guy, but there's something "natural" about tubes.  I'm liking it!
> 
> For the WA22 owners here, what upgrade tubes would be best for dynamics, soundstage and bass?  Looking for some alternatives than the ones from the Woo site.


This is from the Woo catalogue so to speak however you don’t have to get it from there. The USAF 596 rectifier provided all you asked for and more in conjunction with the stock power and driver tubes in my WA22. Can’t wait to start trying out replacements for these.


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> So far so good!  I've always been a solid state guy, but there's something "natural" about tubes.  I'm liking it!
> 
> For the WA22 owners here, what upgrade tubes would be best for dynamics, soundstage and bass?  Looking for some alternatives than the ones from the Woo site.


For power tubes I’ve found that the Tung-Sol 5998’s work the best. For driver tubes, which I have several pair, I’ve found that the Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers to have a very nice sound. But if I had to live with one pair they’d be the Mullard Philips brown base ECC35’s. My favorite rectifier tube over the years has been the USAF 596. I’m still looking to someday add the Takatsuki 274b rectifier to my collection.


----------



## CAJames (Nov 12, 2021)

duranxv said:


> So far so good!  I've always been a solid state guy, but there's something "natural" about tubes.  I'm liking it!
> 
> For the WA22 owners here, what upgrade tubes would be best for dynamics, soundstage and bass?  Looking for some alternatives than the ones from the Woo site.



I've had really good results lately with a WWII vintage RCA 5R4GY with double D getters (just be sure it is NOT a later one with a single getter. Those are OK, but nothing special in my experience). For input tubes I've been using a lot of single triodes, and Sylvania 6J5GTs sound great and are (relatively) cheap. If you want to go sorta crazy the Type 37 tube has really great bass and soundstage, although somewhat lacking in dynamics, and pretty low gain compared to more modern tubes.


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> For power tubes I’ve found that the Tung-Sol 5998’s work the best. For driver tubes, which I have several pair, I’ve found that the Sophia Electric 6SN7 drivers to have a very nice sound. But if I had to live with one pair they’d be the Mullard Philips brown base ECC35’s. My favorite rectifier tube over the years has been the USAF 596. I’m still looking to someday add the Takatsuki 274b rectifier to my collection.



So does the rectifier tube have the most impact on the sound?  Is it recommended to swap that out first before rolling the driver and power tubes?


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> So does the rectifier tube have the most impact on the sound?  Is it recommended to swap that out first before rolling the driver and power tubes?


@duranxv, changing from a poor rectifier tube to a great one can have a huge impact on the sound quality of the WA22. But when you start rolling with really good tubes, be it rectifiers, drivers, or power tubes, the differences become more subtle and are dependent upon what kind of sound signature that you’re looking for, and what surrounding gear that’s in your listening chain.


----------



## lumdicks

Just got a good quality NOS WE274A at reasonable price and it completed my final piece of puzzle.

Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
Drivers: Mullard ECC32
Power: Western Electric 421A

Will give it a bit time to burn it before further sharing.


----------



## duranxv

lumdicks said:


> Just got a good quality NOS WE274A at reasonable price and it completed my final piece of puzzle.
> 
> Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
> Drivers: Mullard ECC32
> ...



What kind of sound signature are you aiming for with this tube combo?


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 17, 2021)

duranxv said:


> What kind of sound signature are you aiming for with this tube combo?


Both the 421A and 274A are NOS so I expect a bit time is required for burning in, but out of the box the sound is already out of this world. Tonality is perfect with sweet but not lush mid, smooth and extended high and amazing bass. Holographic and airy presentation with very high resolution at the same time. The sound is so smooth with all of my headphones including Susvara and it makes music listening unstoppable.

The WE274A outperforms my Sylvania (with sweet mid but less airy presentation and resolution) and KR Audio 274B (have stronger power and dynamics but less smoothness and cohesiveness) with significant margin, and I have a great difficulty to swap it with other tube again.


----------



## duranxv

There's some microphonic sound coming from the right channel anytime there's even a slight vibration from my desk (such as typing or tapping).  I just started noticing it today.

I've been operating the tube amp as instructed (keeping it away from any EM interference, plus not operating it for more than 8 hours at a time).   Is it possible the tubes are defective?


----------



## CAJames (Nov 17, 2021)

Sadly yes, although it is possible it will go away with further burn in. First thing to do is swap tubes left and right tubes to see if the noise follows the tubes. If it does you can try to wait it out and/or start trading out tubes. Noisy tubes are the curse of the tube roller, esp. when you are dealing with high dollar "heritage" tubes.


----------



## duranxv

lumdicks said:


> Just got a good quality NOS WE274A at reasonable price and it completed my final piece of puzzle.
> 
> Rectifier: Western Electric 274A
> Drivers: Mullard ECC32
> ...



Oh wow, those tubes cost a pretty penny, lol.  Any lower cost upgrade options that can achieve a similar result before hitting the wall of diminishing returns?


----------



## duranxv

CAJames said:


> Sadly yes, although it is possible it will go away with further burn in. First thing to do is swap tubes left and right tubes to see if the noise follows the tubes. If it does you can try to wait it out and/or start trading out tubes. Noisy tubes are the curse of the tube roller, esp. when you are dealing with high dollar "heritage" tubes.



Just took your suggestion and switched the right tubes to the left side and vice versa.  Looks like the issue went away.  Thanks!

Very strange indeed


----------



## CAJames

duranxv said:


> Oh wow, those tubes cost a pretty penny, lol.  Any lower cost upgrade options that can achieve a similar result before hitting the wall of diminishing returns?



There are hundreds of posts in this thread and many thousands more on the rest of head-fi about tubes. Probably easier for you just to start reading to get many opinions. There are also tube specific threads for e.g. 6SN7, 6080/6SN7 and rectifiers.



duranxv said:


> Just took your suggestion and switched the right tubes to the left side and vice versa.  Looks like the issue went away.  Thanks! Very strange indeed.



Not really. Sometimes just another heat-up/cool-down cycle, or reseating the tubes is enough to make it go away. Or make it go away temporarily, which is perhaps the most frustrating. Good luck and enjoy the journey.


----------



## lumdicks

duranxv said:


> Oh wow, those tubes cost a pretty penny, lol.  Any lower cost upgrade options that can achieve a similar result before hitting the wall of diminishing returns?


I have previously used Sylvania 274B and I think it is very good especially on vocal.


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> I have previously used Sylvania 274B and I think it is very good especially on vocal.


@lumdicks, what made you get a Western Electric 274a when you already had the KR 274b?


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, what made you get a Western Electric 274a when you already had the KR 274b?


With the KR dynamics is amazing with power, but I found it a bit lacking on smoothness, cohesiveness and density. With the 274A it sounds perfectly in tonality, imaging and resolution, and I am fully satisfied now.

Will get a pair of Marconi QB65 next Monday as an alternative and spare driver tube of my ECC32, anxiously expecting now.


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> With the KR dynamics is amazing with power, but I found it a bit lacking on smoothness, cohesiveness and density. With the 274A it sounds perfectly in tonality, imaging and resolution, and I am fully satisfied now.
> 
> Will get a pair of Marconi QB65 next Monday as an alternative and spare driver tube of my ECC32, anxiously expecting now.


@lumdicks, I would think that a rectifier tube like the KR 274b would need at least 100hrs of listening time before it settles in and the new tube edginess and harshness dissipates.


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, I would think that a rectifier tube like the KR 274b would need at least 100hrs of listening time before it settles in and the new tube edginess and harshness dissipates.


Yes and I shall resume the tube rolling between WE274A, Sylvania 274B and the KR for more burn in and a more detailed comparison.


----------



## duranxv

lumdicks said:


> Yes and I shall resume the tube rolling between WE274A, Sylvania 274B and the KR for more burn in and a more detailed comparison.



Any opinion on the USAF tube option?


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> Yes and I shall resume the tube rolling between WE274A, Sylvania 274B and the KR for more burn in and a more detailed comparison.


@lumdicks, this morning I rolled a vintage WE 422a rectifier into my WA22 to hear what it could do with the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes and two Sylvania brown base 6SN7 driver tubes.


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, this morning I rolled a vintage WE 422a rectifier into my WA22 to hear what it could do with the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes and two Sylvania brown base 6SN7 driver tubes.


How is the sound? Should be a nice one!


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Any opinion on the USAF tube option?


@duranxv, so far the USAF 596 is my favorite sounding rectifier tube for both my WA22 and my Woo WA6 hp amplifiers.


----------



## lumdicks

bpcans said:


> @lumdicks, this morning I rolled a vintage WE 422a rectifier into my WA22 to hear what it could do with the Tung Sol 5998 power tubes and two Sylvania brown base 6SN7 driver tubes.





Compared to KR Audio 274B, I love the Sylvania one much more. The Sylvania is having very smooth but resolving sound, especially in vocal which is so emotionally touching. The WE274A excels on imaging with beautiful sound decay, and also slightly better extension in treble. Strongly recommended If anyone can get a good quality one of Sylvania.


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> How is the sound? Should be a nice one!


@lumdicks, the sound using the WE 422a rectifier tube with the Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s is exhilarating.


----------



## QuantumKat

Planning to dive into Woo Audio for Christmas, how much of an upgrade over the WA22 is the WA33 really? The price difference is wild.


----------



## ThanatosVI

QuantumKat said:


> Planning to dive into Woo Audio for Christmas, how much of an upgrade over the WA22 is the WA33 really? The price difference is wild.


Pretty serious upgrade.
The Wa33 is a lot more technical,  the Wa22 is quite warm and tubey.


----------



## QuantumKat

ThanatosVI said:


> Pretty serious upgrade.
> The Wa33 is a lot more technical,  the Wa22 is quite warm and tubey.


What's your sense between WA33 Standard vs. Elite?


----------



## ThanatosVI

QuantumKat said:


> What's your sense between WA33 Standard vs. Elite?


The direct comparisons are few and far in between. 
Here is one of the latest comments in it:

Post in thread 'Woo's New Flagship WA33' https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woos-new-flagship-wa33.843710/post-16636214


----------



## lumdicks

WA22 scales very well with tube rolling, and the newly arrived B65 works perfectly with WE274A and WE421A. Compared to the B65, the ECC32 sounds fuller and more mid focused and it is so attractive in vocal and acoustic. B65 is a more balanced one with deep bass and shiny high so playing beautifully to genres such as Classical, Piano and Jazz.



I have got my WA22 and all these tubes in 2 months and the rabbit hole is so deep that I need to stop and giving all the tubes a fair time of burning in and playing.

Rectifiers: WE274A, Sylvania 274B, KR Audio 274B and Fivre 5U4G
Drivers: Marconi B65, Mullard ECC32, Sylvania 6SN7WGT and RCA Victor 6SN7
Power: WE421A, Chatham 6AS7, Sylvania 7236 and Brimar 6080


----------



## ThanatosVI

lumdicks said:


> WA22 scales very well with tube rolling, and the newly arrived B65 works perfectly with WE274A and WE421A. Compared to the B65, the ECC32 sounds fuller and more mid focused and it is so attractive in vocal and acoustic. B65 is a more balanced one with deep bass and shiny high so playing beautifully to genres such as Classical, Piano and Jazz.
> 
> I have got my WA22 and all these tubes in 2 months and the rabbit hole is so deep that I need to stop and giving all the tubes a fair time of burning in and playing.
> 
> ...


Where did you get the caps to Cover the headphone outs?


----------



## lumdicks

ThanatosVI said:


> Where did you get the caps to Cover the headphone outs?


I got my WA22 as used and the caps have already been put in place by the original owners.


----------



## lumdicks (Nov 24, 2021)

Perfect grow, amazing sound. Originally I have a bit worry that this combo will be a tad too warm but surprisingly, it features the signature Mullard warmth but with very good imaging and treble extension as well.

(Mullard GZ33, Mullard ECC32 and Chatham 6AS7).


----------



## bpcans

lumdicks said:


> Perfect grow, amazing sound. Originally I have a bit worry that this combo will be a tad too warm but surprisingly, it features the signature Mullard warmth but with very good imaging and treble extension as well.
> 
> (Mullard GZ33, Mullard ECC32 and Chatham 6AS7).


@lumdicks, you’ve really been rolling the tubes lately. I’m so jealous!


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> @duranxv, so far the USAF 596 is my favorite sounding rectifier tube for both my WA22 and my Woo WA6 hp amplifiers.



Interesting, even better than KR Audio in your opinion?


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Interesting, even better than KR Audio in your opinion?


@duranxv, I haven’t had a KR Audio rectifier yet, but I’ve read that they are very good tubes. I haven’t heard a Takatsuki 274b either, but I still want one. 😃


----------



## Roasty

This group quite likes rectifiers..
I picked up a cheap tube yesterday. It is a Genalex GZ34/5ar4 tube. Have been running it in since I got it. Nice little tube that looks decent and something that I won't worry about dropping or breaking. The sound I'm getting, well, I'm impressed, mainly because it is USD40 which I think is ridiculous compared to my higher end tubes, and yet, I can't find anything I can really complain about for this tube..

Give it a go. It certainly is cheap enough for a weekend fling if any..


----------



## ThanatosVI

Roasty said:


> This group quite likes rectifiers..
> I picked up a cheap tube yesterday. It is a Genalex GZ34/5ar4 tube. Have been running it in since I got it. Nice little tube that looks decent and something that I won't worry about dropping or breaking. The sound I'm getting, well, I'm impressed, mainly because it is USD40 which I think is ridiculous compared to my higher end tubes, and yet, I can't find anything I can really complain about for this tube..
> 
> Give it a go. It certainly is cheap enough for a weekend fling if any..


Those gold Lion offerings are really quite good for the money.
This applies also to other types like KT77, KT88 and 12au7.

Overall some of the best current production tubes


----------



## bpcans

ThanatosVI said:


> Those gold Lion offerings are really quite good for the money.
> This applies also to other types like KT77, KT88 and 12au7.
> 
> Overall some of the best current production tubes


@ThanatosVI, you mean that every tube I buy doesn’t have to cost two hundred bucks?


----------



## ThanatosVI

bpcans said:


> @ThanatosVI, you mean that every tube I buy doesn’t have to cost two hundred bucks?


Yeah some can be quite cheap like these and others can cost you 1 grand per piece.
Maybe it averages out at two hundred bucks


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> @ThanatosVI, you mean that every tube I buy doesn’t have to cost two hundred bucks?



The guys at tubedepot also recommended Genalex as they felt the price/performance ratio was amazing and thought they were some of the best new production tubes available. I'm tempted to give the Genalex 12au7 or 6922 tubes a try.


----------



## CAJames

I had been a 5U4/5Z3/5R4 guy and thought I was pretty happy until bought the Genalex GZ34 on a goof several months ago. Sadly (or happily) I liked it so much it became a bit of a gateway rectifier to the world GZ34s that cost quite a bit more than $40...


----------



## Roasty

CAJames said:


> I had been a 5U4/5Z3/5R4 guy and thought I was pretty happy until bought the Genalex GZ34 on a goof several months ago. Sadly (or happily) I liked it so much it became a bit of a gateway rectifier to the world GZ34s that cost quite a bit more than $40...



I will likely regret asking, but which gz34s are u referring to...?


----------



## jonathan c (Nov 26, 2021)

Mullard GZ34 rectifier tubes NOS are excellent. These may be rebranded to Adzam, Philips or other names. Expect to pay $175 - $230 USD...(I use these in a Woo WA6.)


----------



## lumdicks

jonathan c said:


> Mullard GZ34 rectifier tubes NOS are excellent. These may be rebranded to Adzam, Philips or other names. Expect to pay $175 - $230 USD...(I use these in a Woo WA6.)






GZ33 is also a very good choice!


----------



## jonathan c

lumdicks said:


> GZ33 is also a very good choice!


I will add the GZ32….currently on active duty in my WA6 (1st Gen).


----------



## CAJames (Nov 27, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Mullard GZ34 rectifier tubes NOS are excellent. These may be rebranded to Adzam, Philips or other names. Expect to pay $175 - $230 USD...(I use these in a Woo WA6.)



Yes. Both Mullard (Blackburn) and Philips (Sittard and Bruxelles) late 50's or very early 60's. Couldn't go all the way to a metal base. Depending on the rest of the tube compliment they are great in the WA22 (although I'm back to a 5R4GY and NU 6J5GTs ATM) but the Mullard "fat base smooth plates" have really taken my speaker amps to the next level.


----------



## bpcans

Hey @Roasty, and the other great lovers of the Woo WA22. Has anybody used Mullard Philips  ECC35 drivers in combination with a Sophia Electric Princess 274b rectifier in their WA22?


----------



## duranxv

Just got me a KR Audio 274B rectifier and man what a massive improvement over the stock rectifier.  However, now I'm getting a dull hum in the right channel.  Does that disappear with burn in?

I ruled everything else out (cables, headphones, source, etc.) and the issue is solely the tube itself.  Any suggestions?


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Just got me a KR Audio 274B rectifier and man what a massive improvement over the stock rectifier.  However, now I'm getting a dull hum in the right channel.  Does that disappear with burn in?
> 
> I ruled everything else out (cables, headphones, source, etc.) and the issue is solely the tube itself.  Any suggestions?


@duranxv, and you get no hum in the right channel using any other rectifier tube?


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> @duranxv, and you get no hum in the right channel using any other rectifier tube?



Correct.  When I swapped the stock rectifier tube back in, the hum went away


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Correct.  When I swapped the stock rectifier tube back in, the hum went away


@duranxv, who did you get the KR 274b from, and have you tried it again since? Do you have any pictures of it that you can share?


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> @duranxv, who did you get the KR 274b from, and have you tried it again since? Do you have any pictures of it that you can share?



Got it straight from Woo Audio.  Here's a pic of it:


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Got it straight from Woo Audio.  Here's a pic of it:


@duranxv, that is one gorgeous rectifier tube! Have you sent any emails to Mike Liang at Woo Audio about the right channel hum issue?


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> Hey @Roasty, and the other great lovers of the Woo WA22. Has anybody used Mullard Philips  ECC35 drivers in combination with a Sophia Electric Princess 274b rectifier in their WA22?



I think I would have probably tried that combo. The Sophia was one of the first tubes I purchased. 



duranxv said:


> Just got me a KR Audio 274B rectifier and man what a massive improvement over the stock rectifier.  However, now I'm getting a dull hum in the right channel.  Does that disappear with burn in?
> 
> I ruled everything else out (cables, headphones, source, etc.) and the issue is solely the tube itself.  Any suggestions?



What happens if u use the KR rec and swap L/R positions of the driver and/or power tubes? Does the hum shift? Or stays on the right?


----------



## bpcans

@Roasty, I can’t seem to get these vintage Sylvania brown base 6SN7 driver tubes away from the WA22 because they’re sounding very good right now.


----------



## duranxv

Roasty said:


> What happens if u use the KR rec and swap L/R positions of the driver and/or power tubes? Does the hum shift? Or stays on the right?



Interestingly, when I swapped the L/R positions of the power and drivers, now the hum went from the right channel to the left channel.  Very odd


----------



## duranxv

bpcans said:


> @duranxv, that is one gorgeous rectifier tube! Have you sent any emails to Mike Liang at Woo Audio about the right channel hum issue?



Yep, waiting to hear back


----------



## Roasty

duranxv said:


> Interestingly, when I swapped the L/R positions of the power and drivers, now the hum went from the right channel to the left channel.  Very odd



Then it may be an issue with the power/driver tubes? And perhaps it is that the KR tube has now made it obvious?

In my WA33, if I use the psvane 274b rectifier, I can detect faint hum with the 300b 2.5v power tubes. But if I change out the rec to something else, the hum goes away. I'm guessing sometimes the rec makes issues elsewhere more apparent.

I'm not 100percent sure and just speculating. Do you have another set of driver or power tubes to test?


----------



## duranxv

Roasty said:


> Then it may be an issue with the power/driver tubes? And perhaps it is that the KR tube has now made it obvious?
> 
> In my WA33, if I use the psvane 274b rectifier, I can detect faint hum with the 300b 2.5v power tubes. But if I change out the rec to something else, the hum goes away. I'm guessing sometimes the rec makes issues elsewhere more apparent.
> 
> I'm not 100percent sure and just speculating. Do you have another set of driver or power tubes to test?



Don't have another pair just yet to test


----------



## Roasty

duranxv said:


> Don't have another pair just yet to test



If you're on stock drivers and power tubes, take it as an opportunity to buy some nice ones.. Heh... All the best man hope u solve the issue.


----------



## duranxv

Roasty said:


> If you're on stock drivers and power tubes, take it as an opportunity to buy some nice ones.. Heh... All the best man hope u solve the issue.



I actually wanted to do a full tube upgrade from stock, but Mike at Woo recommended I start with the rectifier and then swap out step by step to see how the sound changes along the way


----------



## Roasty

duranxv said:


> I actually wanted to do a full tube upgrade from stock, but Mike at Woo recommended I start with the rectifier and then swap out step by step to see how the sound changes along the way



Don't need to wait. 
I'll make it easy for you. 
Your rec is a good choice. 
Power tubes just get ts5998 or we421a and call it a day. 
Drivers up to you to play, but if I would recommend one good option that won't break the bank.. Tung Sol 6sn7 tall boys.


----------



## lumdicks

Roasty said:


> Don't need to wait.
> I'll make it easy for you.
> Your rec is a good choice.
> Power tubes just get ts5998 or we421a and call it a day.
> Drivers up to you to play, but if I would recommend one good option that won't break the bank.. Tung Sol 6sn7 tall boys.


The GEC 6AS7 / CV2523 is another great choice of Power Tubes.


----------



## duranxv

Roasty said:


> Don't need to wait.
> I'll make it easy for you.
> Your rec is a good choice.
> Power tubes just get ts5998 or we421a and call it a day.
> Drivers up to you to play, but if I would recommend one good option that won't break the bank.. Tung Sol 6sn7 tall boys.



Are those tubes good for bass and overall dynamics?  I'm more into "fun" sound signatures rather than technical


----------



## bpcans

duranxv said:


> Are those tubes good for bass and overall dynamics?  I'm more into "fun" sound signatures rather than technical


@duranxv, it was @Roasty who turned me onto getting the 5998 power tubes, and a few others for that matter. The 5998’s are awesome and a good foundation for your WA22. Now rectifiers and driver tubes? OMG, the world is your oyster.


----------



## lumdicks

British dream team of tubes and it is a nirvana for vocal, strings and acoustic.

Rectifier: GEC U52
Driver: Mullard ECC32
Power: GEC 6AS7G / CV2523


----------



## alekc

lumdicks said:


> British dream team of tubes and it is a nirvana for vocal, strings and acoustic.
> 
> Rectifier: GEC U52
> Driver: Mullard ECC32
> Power: GEC 6AS7G / CV2523


@lumdicks  Awesome and beautiful at the same time  May I ask which filter setting are you using in TT2 for tubes?


----------



## lumdicks

alekc said:


> @lumdicks  Awesome and beautiful at the same time  May I ask which filter setting are you using in TT2 for tubes?


I normally use FIL1 for tube amp.


----------



## lumdicks

lumdicks said:


> British dream team of tubes and it is a nirvana for vocal, strings and acoustic.
> 
> Rectifier: GEC U52
> Driver: Mullard ECC32
> Power: GEC 6AS7G / CV2523






All metal base combo (Mullard GZ34, Marconi B65 and Sylvania 7236) on WA22. Sound is tight with very good speed and clarity. Soundstage is a bit intimate but dynamic and imaging are excellent.


----------



## duranxv (Dec 14, 2021)

I swapped out the stock tubes with Tung Sol 5998's and RCA 5691's for the power and drivers.  KR 274b for the rectifier.  Even without burn-in, I'm astounded as to the sound coming out of these tubes.  For the first time ever, I don't think I need to EQ my headphones (well...almost).


----------



## KZCloud89

Greetings everyone,

Got a problem with my WA22 (original version).  The volume knob makes popping noise/static/hum at low to medium volume (btw 7 o'clock and 1 o'clock) as the knob is turned.  However at higher volume (btw 2 to 6 o'clock) no noise at all as the volume goes up.

I'm using Audio-gb as my DAC/Amp (see pic).  Spend the morning swapping out 3-4 sets of headphones/rectifiers/drivers/power tubes and the problem still there.

I removed the volume knob and using compressed air to blow out dust off the volume knob pot and noise still there.

Almost forgot,  for 5-6 years the amp was plugged in but never turn on.  I'm gonna leave it on playing music for couple hours to see if that would fix the problem.

Anyone ran into similar problem before???

Thanks in advance.


----------



## KZCloud89

I'm going to try some DeoxIT contact cleaner and keep you guys posted.


----------



## denniswaugh

3 or 4  years ago my WA22 (First Gen) developed a rustling sound as I turned the volume pot up/down. I used a small amount of Deoxit on the potentiometer contacts and it's been fine ever since.


----------



## u2u2

When I first got my WA22 I had some hum and noise issues on initial setup. It is very sensitive to outside influences such as other cables near interconnects and the power chord. I would not bet able to stack mine as in the above photo as it simply would not tolerate it. Problem may be as simple as rearranging the setup prior to pulling the cover and cleaning the POT. Coming up on six years of excellent performance. Never been past 1400 on the volume, usually set at 1200... If I remember correctly Woo used a number of POTs on the Gen 1 units. Is there one version more prone to needing service than others?


----------



## KZCloud89

Yes I was thinking of electronic interference with other powercords/interconnects nearby.  Will rearrange to the other side of the desk to see if that would rid of the problem.

I don't listen that loud either just trying to describe for some reason there's no static/noise as the volume knob is turned at high volume.

Thanks!


----------



## duranxv

Now that I upgraded my tubes (TS 5998's, RCA 5691's and KR 274b), I notice the amp itself generates less heat in its body (tubes still hot of course).  I actually thought heat would increase because there's more power.  Is that typical?


----------



## ShinZ

Hello everyone, just wondering if any of you guys have tried verite open with WA22?

I encounter hum issue with my VO. It is not totally dead when I plug it
Tube: Sophia 274B / Syl VT-231 / Syl 7236

The hum is very obvious on one channel. Example: left.
Then I switch the power tube (left><right), hum moves to other channel..
I thought it is the power tube issue.. maybe too much power?
Tried use back stock tube but the hum still there..

Also try use back stock rectifier but doesn't help.. 
I use high setting in the amp. If I use low, the hum is not as loud as high

Anyone experience before and can help? Really appreciate..
Thanks


----------



## duranxv

You should reach out to the Woo Audio team, they're very helpful.  I had a similar hum issue when I swapped out the stock rectifier with the KR 274b (while using stock power and driver tubes).  They helped me find the right combo of upgraded driver and power tubes to get rid of the hum.  Now, it's dead silent.  I use a VC.

If you go back to all stock tubes, do you still hear the hum?


----------



## ShinZ

duranxv said:


> You should reach out to the Woo Audio team, they're very helpful.  I had a similar hum issue when I swapped out the stock rectifier with the KR 274b (while using stock power and driver tubes).  They helped me find the right combo of upgraded driver and power tubes to get rid of the hum.  Now, it's dead silent.  I use a VC.
> 
> If you go back to all stock tubes, do you still hear the hum?


Just tried use all stock tubes. Still hear the hum sound..

I guess I'll contact Woo for now. Maybe they have some suggestions.

Did you try other headphone when you had the issue? My planar headphone is dead silent..


----------



## duranxv

ShinZ said:


> Just tried use all stock tubes. Still hear the hum sound..
> 
> I guess I'll contact Woo for now. Maybe they have some suggestions.
> 
> Did you try other headphone when you had the issue? My planar headphone is dead silent..



Strange indeed.  I'm sure they'll help you figure out a solution.

I didn't try another headphone, but I did try a different amplifier, and there was no hum, so I knew it wasn't the headphones themselves.


----------



## bpcans

ShinZ said:


> Just tried use all stock tubes. Still hear the hum sound..
> 
> I guess I'll contact Woo for now. Maybe they have some suggestions.
> 
> Did you try other headphone when you had the issue? My planar headphone is dead silent..


@ShinZ, the stock tubes are inherently pretty noisy and are just provided so that you can make sure that the amp fires up and works. With the upgraded tubes that I use the sound floor is absolutely pitch black.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

Hi all. New WA22 owner here. Just want to check in and say I love it to death. Powers my Diana TCs excellent. Going to try to use it as a pre-amp into a solid state for the cans to see how having more power will affect the sound.


----------



## bpcans

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> Hi all. New WA22 owner here. Just want to check in and say I love it to death. Powers my Diana TCs excellent. Going to try to use it as a pre-amp into a solid state for the cans to see how having more power will affect the sound.


How are liking the Diana TC’s @Neoaudiophile21?


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

bpcans said:


> How are liking the Diana TC’s @Neoaudiophile21?


Enjoying them quite a bit. So far they have exceeded all expectations. I only really have the LCD-2C and Focal Clear MG Pros. The TC beat them hands down in every single way. Will be my last headphones…unless something ridiculous manages to come out that absolutely changes the game.


----------



## plb0202

Testing out a tough tube combo....Might 596, GE 5692 and Bendix 6080.


----------



## BananaCarnage

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> Hi all. New WA22 owner here. Just want to check in and say I love it to death. Powers my Diana TCs excellent. Going to try to use it as a pre-amp into a solid state for the cans to see how having more power will affect the sound.


Highly recommend 5998 power tubes for that. I have same cans and amp.


----------



## bpcans

@BananaCarnage, I’ve been seriously considering the Abyss Diana TC’s. What do you like most about them?


----------



## BananaCarnage

bpcans said:


> @BananaCarnage, I’ve been seriously considering the Abyss Diana TC’s. What do you like most about them?


I am going to hold off until a listen to them with the Ferrum stack. I still think the wa-22 doesn’t drive them to their full potential. Without big power tubes it’s def not worth it. Reply later tonight with update competing with and without additional power amp.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

BananaCarnage said:


> I am going to hold off until a listen to them with the Ferrum stack. I still think the wa-22 doesn’t drive them to their full potential. Without big power tubes it’s def not worth it. Reply later tonight with update competing with and without additional power amp.


The WA-22 doesn't do them justice without upgraded power tubes. Even using the WA-22 as a pre-amp into the Schiit Jotun 2 didn't really bring everything out in them. My Focal Clear MG Pros beat the pants off the Diana TC, but the TC seemed to be underpowered. Waiting to see how it is for Banana with the addition of the Ferry stack in the mix.


----------



## BananaCarnage (Jan 19, 2022)

Ferrum had a significant impact. The wa22 with the 5998s was an upgrade but sounded as if there was too much gain. Highs were a bit harsh and lost some of the musicality. Adding ferrum
Power amp and wa-22 as pre was the sound profile I was looking for. Clear mids, crisp highs and the tube warmth on vocals that makes you feel like you’re sitting in a jazz club. Sound stage and imaging is much better but still not as wide as the senns.  I’d still like to test the Diana TCs direct to Ferrum with no pre amp but will need to be another day.

Dollar for dollar 800S + wa22 is still one of my favorites. Judge me all you want lol.


----------



## duranxv

BananaCarnage said:


> Ferrum had a significant impact. The wa22 with the 5998s was an upgrade but sounded as if there was too much gain. Highs were a bit harsh and lost some of the musicality. Adding ferrum
> Power amp and wa-22 as pre was the sound profile I was looking for. Clear mids, crisp highs and the tube warmth on vocals that makes you feel like you’re sitting in a jazz club. Sound stage and imaging is much better but still not as wide as the senns.  I’d still like to test the Diana TCs direct to Ferrum with no pre amp but will need to be another day.
> 
> Dollar for dollar 800S + wa22 is still one of my favorites. Judge me all you want lol.



Funny enough, I'm considering getting the Ferrum stack to pair with the WA22 - so I'm glad to see someone tried the pairing.  How was the bass?

I did a full upgrade of the tubes for my WA22.  Rec tube is KR 274B, TS 5998's and RCA 5691's


----------



## BananaCarnage

duranxv said:


> Funny enough, I'm considering getting the Ferrum stack to pair with the WA22 - so I'm glad to see someone tried the pairing.  How was the bass?
> 
> I did a full upgrade of the tubes for my WA22.  Rec tube is KR 274B, TS 5998's and RCA 5691's


I thought bass was improved with the 5998 over stock tubes but a not crisp. Ferrum tightens up the bass.  Jealous of the 274 b trying to track down a Sophia Electric Princess 274b, but it’s not easy.


----------



## duranxv

BananaCarnage said:


> I thought bass was improved with the 5998 over stock tubes but a not crisp. Ferrum tightens up the bass.  Jealous of the 274 b trying to track down a Sophia Electric Princess 274b, but it’s not easy.



The 274B rectifier tube will definitely help with your bass issue.  I currently use the WA22 as a pre into a Sparkos Aries (which is a discrete op-amp based solid state), and the bass slams really well on a pair of VC's.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

duranxv said:


> Funny enough, I'm considering getting the Ferrum stack to pair with the WA22 - so I'm glad to see someone tried the pairing.  How was the bass?
> 
> I did a full upgrade of the tubes for my WA22.  Rec tube is KR 274B, TS 5998's and RCA 5691's


Just picked up a Ferrum stack for my WA22. Still waiting for all my tubes to arrive. Everything shipping to me has decided to take the longest and most unnecessary way to get to me. 

Had my rectifier land a few miles from home only to then get shipped down the road a 100 miles after showing out for delivery. One day it’ll be all set up.


----------



## bpcans

@BananaCarnage, have you thought about trying a USAF 596 rectifier tube in your WA22? I’ve used both the 596 and the Sophia Electric 274b in my WA22, and the 596 had a deeper and tighter bass than the SE 274b when paired with 5998 power tubes.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

USAF 596 is my grail. Couldn’t find one for sale. Looked for a month or so.


----------



## u2u2

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> USAF 596 is my grail. Couldn’t find one for sale. Looked for a month or so.


Woo seems to always have stock and they are available right now. I will give that they charge a premium but they always deliver a solid item. Their adapters are top notch as well. A many times satisfied Woo customer...


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

u2u2 said:


> Woo seems to always have stock and they are available right now. I will give that they charge a premium but they always deliver a solid item. Their adapters are top notch as well. A many times satisfied Woo customer...


I was hoping to avoid their markup, but may have to bite the bullet and do it.


----------



## BananaCarnage

bpcans said:


> @BananaCarnage, have you thought about trying a USAF 596 rectifier tube in your WA22? I’ve used both the 596 and the Sophia Electric 274b in my WA22, and the 596 had a deeper and tighter bass than the SE 274b when paired with 5998 power tubes.


I actually have the USAF 596 on it right now. Wonder if I should just keep that one. Only down side is with the adapter it doesn't quite fit where I want to put it in my rack.


----------



## bpcans

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> I was hoping to avoid their markup, but may have to bite the bullet and do it.


@Neoaudiophile21, I bought my 596 on eBay from a trusted seller who had an excellent return policy. The adapter I bought from Woo because theirs are the best on the market today.


----------



## bpcans

BananaCarnage said:


> I actually have the USAF 596 on it right now. Wonder if I should just keep that one. Only down side is with the adapter it doesn't quite fit where I want to put it in my rack.


@BananaCarnage, I have my Woo WA22 on the top of my gear rack just because that’s where it would fit the best.


----------



## bpcans (Jan 21, 2022)

@arftech I still need to separate the M Scaler from the TT2 with some more distance. But using WAVE Storm BNC’s has really helped immensely thanks to @Triode User.


----------



## KZCloud89

KZCloud89 said:


> Greetings everyone,
> 
> Got a problem with my WA22 (original version).  The volume knob makes popping noise/static/hum at low to medium volume (btw 7 o'clock and 1 o'clock) as the knob is turned.  However at higher volume (btw 2 to 6 o'clock) no noise at all as the volume goes up.
> 
> ...


 Hey guys,

Just want to update with the problem I have above with my WA22. I opened up the amp and noticed some oxidation with metal contacts inside the DACT CT2 100k-4.

I used  DeoxIT Fader FN5S-2N Mini-Spray and was able to get the solvent inside the attenuator where the metal contacts are oxidized and problem solved.

No more pops and crackles.


----------



## duranxv

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> Just picked up a Ferrum stack for my WA22. Still waiting for all my tubes to arrive. Everything shipping to me has decided to take the longest and most unnecessary way to get to me.
> 
> Had my rectifier land a few miles from home only to then get shipped down the road a 100 miles after showing out for delivery. One day it’ll be all set up.



Funny you mentioned that, I have a Ferrum stack on its way too to be paired up with my WA22


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

duranxv said:


> Funny you mentioned that, I have a Ferrum stack on its way too to be paired up with my WA22


Hooking it up instantly ended my frustration with my WA22. Funny how this hobby completely messes up reality. I was all excited that adding in a $3200 amp to my stack now made my $4500 headphones sound better than my $1200 headphones. 

That shouldn’t be necessary haha. Thankfully, it’s good enough now that I am completely satisfied with my stack for now. For now. 

Am excited for my Mullard 6080s to get here though and then I’m done tube rolling for a bit. Maybe.


----------



## duranxv

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> Hooking it up instantly ended my frustration with my WA22. Funny how this hobby completely messes up reality. I was all excited that adding in a $3200 amp to my stack now made my $4500 headphones sound better than my $1200 headphones.
> 
> That shouldn’t be necessary haha. Thankfully, it’s good enough now that I am completely satisfied with my stack for now. For now.
> 
> Am excited for my Mullard 6080s to get here though and then I’m done tube rolling for a bit. Maybe.



Nice   Did you mess around with the voltage settings on the Hypsos PSU by chance to see how it affects the sound?


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

duranxv said:


> Nice   Did you mess around with the voltage settings on the Hypsos PSU by chance to see how it affects the sound?


Not yet. Waiting to get more comfortable with everything before I start tinkering.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

I'm interested in mainly using the WA22 as a preamp but I also have an HD800 which would pair nicely with this. Can anyone share their experiences on how well it functions primarily as a preamp?


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

Ethereal Sound said:


> I'm interested in mainly using the WA22 as a preamp but I also have an HD800 which would pair nicely with this. Can anyone share their experiences on how well it functions primarily as a preamp?


It functions excellent as a pre-amp. Adds a lot of warmth to my Ferrum Orr+Hypsos and colors the sound in a way that’s appealing to me. YMMV, but for me the true value in the WA22 is only as a pre-amp.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

Neoaudiophile21 said:


> It functions excellent as a pre-amp. Adds a lot of warmth to my Ferrum Orr+Hypsos and colors the sound in a way that’s appealing to me. YMMV, but for me the true value in the WA22 is only as a pre-amp.



That's good to hear! Are you using stock tubes or some other combination? I'm hoping the stock tubes are at least half decent as I'd rather not drop a huge amount on tube rolling from the get go.


----------



## Neoaudiophile21

Ethereal Sound said:


> That's good to hear! Are you using stock tubes or some other combination? I'm hoping the stock tubes are at least half decent as I'd rather not drop a huge amount on tube rolling from the get go.


When I bought my WA22 it didn’t have the stock tubes and I’ve since rolled all the tubes in it a few times, sorry.


----------



## BananaCarnage

duranxv said:


> Nice   Did you mess around with the voltage settings on the Hypsos PSU by chance to see how it affects the sound?





Ethereal Sound said:


> That's good to hear! Are you using stock tubes or some other combination? I'm hoping the stock tubes are at least half decent as I'd rather not drop a huge amount on tube rolling from the get go.





Ethereal Sound said:


> That's good to hear! Are you using stock tubes or some other combination? I'm hoping the stock tubes are at least half decent as I'd rather not drop a huge amount on tube rolling from the get go.


Fwiw I prefer the wa22 as a direct amp with the senn 800s and some mild eq. Do have upgrades tubes on it including 5998 power tubes. Depends on the cans.


----------



## Ethereal Sound

BananaCarnage said:


> Fwiw I prefer the wa22 as a direct amp with the senn 800s and some mild eq. Do have upgrades tubes on it including 5998 power tubes. Depends on the cans.



I'd plan on using it mainly as a preamp. I don't have too much experience tube rolling hence my question on the quality of the stock tubes.


----------



## CAJames

I'm using it as a preamp and it is great, better than the AR LS25 II it replaced. But it wasn't anything special with the stock tubes, at least in my experience. The WA22 really rewards tube rolling, and if that doesn't appeal to you, it might not be your best option ampwise IMO.  But you don't need to spend a ton on "heritage" tubes to get really excellent results. For a high value budget roll I would consider e.g. Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier and metal base 6J5GT input tubes with 6J5 -> 6SN7 adapters. There are plenty of other suggestions in this thread.


----------



## duranxv

Ethereal Sound said:


> I'd plan on using it mainly as a preamp. I don't have too much experience tube rolling hence my question on the quality of the stock tubes.



Works excellently as a pre-amp.  I pair it with a Sparkos Aries (soon I will be receiving the Ferrum to compare).

Highly advise you upgrade from the stock tubes.  At least the rectifier.  Makes a big difference in the sound.


----------



## B Manoj Kumar

I am curious if there is an equivalent DIY tube amp - with fully balanced design and preamp capabilities. 🙂 anyone aware ?


----------



## mab1376

B Manoj Kumar said:


> I am curious if there is an equivalent DIY tube amp - with fully balanced design and preamp capabilities. 🙂 anyone aware ?


https://wtfamps.com/el-bad-hombre-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## ThanatosVI

mab1376 said:


> https://wtfamps.com/el-bad-hombre-headphone-amplifier/


The names of the amp and Website are hilarious


----------



## hackstu

Just treated my WA22 to a eml 5u4g, but i can hear a light hum when listening with HD820's. I realise because of the sensitivity of the HD820 that I'm hearing it but will the hum go away with use?


----------



## Roasty

hackstu said:


> Just treated my WA22 to a eml 5u4g, but i can hear a light hum when listening with HD820's. I realise because of the sensitivity of the HD820 that I'm hearing it but will the hum go away with use?



Brand new tube? if so, give it some time to settle down. 

also, is the hum present with other combinations of driver/power tubes + the eml? eg, on my WA33 I get a hum if using Sophia Electric 274b + 300b 2.5v power tubes, but no hum if I use 2a3 power tubes.


----------



## hackstu

Yes brand new tube, fingers crossed it will go away.

I'll try changing the drivers and see how i get on.


----------



## jbua5150 (Feb 16, 2022)

Hello everyone,
I’ve been a long time “reader” of this thread.
I have had a WA22 for a while now, and love the tube rolling options available! 
I have seen of the many recommendations of the TungSol 5998 domino plates.
Today I found a pair(for an affordable price), and am very anxious for them to arrive.
Currently I’m using
Tung Sol 7236
Tung Sol 6c8g
And Sophia Princess.

I also scored a pair of Sylvania JAN 6SN7WGTA that are supposed to arrive the same day as the TS5998. 
I’m chomping at the bit considering purchasing a USAF 596 as well….,

First world problems.


----------



## Roasty (Feb 16, 2022)

I have a pair of tung sol 5998 that I'm not using. posting here to give dibs to WA22 owners, rather than in the classifieds.

one has a box, one without but both are matched. I bought these a while back. *edit I got these from tubesunlimited 

These have maybe 1 to 200 hrs on them, but I have not used them for quite a while (since selling my WA22). I can ship with lots of bubble wrap and in a cardboard box. these will ship from Singapore, and I can ship registered with tracking or Fedex (shipping fee to be advised).

let me know if anyone wants these ts5998. only requirements from me are 1) u must be a WA22 owner! and 2) u must not already have a pair of these tubes.


----------



## jbua5150

Roasty said:


> I have a pair of tung sol 5998 that I'm not using. posting here to give dibs to WA22 owners, rather than in the classifieds.
> 
> one has a box, one without but both are matched. I bought these a while back from the guy who makes the Oblivion/Citadel amps.
> 
> ...



Damn.  I missed this opportunity by one day!?!
Hehe.


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, I can’t recommend the USAF 596 enough as a go to rectifier tube for any WA22.


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> @jbua5150, I can’t recommend the USAF 596 enough as a go to rectifier tube for any WA22.


Did you get that from Woo along with their adapter?
I keep trying to tell myself that I dont NEED the Woo adapter, but damn its sexy!


----------



## jonathan c

jbua5150 said:


> Did you get that from Woo along with their adapter?
> I keep trying to tell myself that I dont NEED the Woo adapter, but damn its sexy!


Yes. Go for it, I did!…Regrets?😤!  Besides, only one is required.


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, I bought this particular 596 off of eBay over ten years ago. And got the adapter from Woo at the same time. The new adapters from Woo are even nicer now.


----------



## jbua5150

@bpcans 
I notice that the tube continues to increase in price.
I want to be able to use a cheap adapter for it, but that Woo adapter looks sooooo nice.


----------



## jbua5150

Does anyone know of a reputable source to purchase the USAF 596 other than Woo Audio?
Seems like $250 is a bit high for this tube.


----------



## jonathan c

jbua5150 said:


> Does anyone know of a reputable source to purchase the USAF 596 other than Woo Audio?
> Seems like $250 is a bit high for this tube.


The lowest that I have seen on different websites is $229…from vendors with which I am unfamiliar…


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0. I think that even at this price of $229, or best offer, it is a heck of a deal. Especially for a rectifier tube that will probably last for years. Like I said, I bought mine over ten years ago before I even joined this forum, and I’m listening to music with it right now as I do most everyday if I can.


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> @jbua5150, https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0. I think that even at this price of $229, or best offer, it is a heck of a deal. Especially for a rectifier tube that will probably last for years. Like I said, I bought mine over ten years ago before I even joined this forum, and I’m listening to music with it right now as I do most everyday if I can.


That's the seller I got my TS5998 from.
I was offered to buy the USAF 596 for $175.  Seems high to me for a tube of questionable age/use.  
I feel like I'd rather pay the $75 difference, and buy new with warranty from Woo Audio.


----------



## jbua5150

Ok, I'm weak.  
Seller accepted $155. Not much lower, but still a good deal.

Anyone have an 596 - 5U4G adapter not in use you'd like to sell?


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> @jbua5150, https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-NOS-N...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0. I think that even at this price of $229, or best offer, it is a heck of a deal. Especially for a rectifier tube that will probably last for years. Like I said, I bought mine over ten years ago before I even joined this forum, and I’m listening to music with it right now as I do most everyday if I can.


I have been fortunate that I can make time to listen to my setup everynight.
I am also blessed to have a wife who tolerates my hobbies (and my obsession with collecting things)

I have in the mail to me now:
Pair of NOS Sylvania JAN 6SN7WGTA
Pair Tung Sol 5998 Domino Plates
NOS NIB UNITED USAF-596 RECTIFIER TUBE

Happy days ahead


----------



## bpcans (Feb 18, 2022)

@jbua5150, good score on the 596. Thé Tung Sol 5998’s are the best power tubes that I’ve found for my WA22. But ever since I found these drivers I haven’t bothered to use any others. https://www.ebay.com/itm/SYLVANIA-J...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0. I do highly suggest that you just get a new adapter from Woo Audio for your incoming 596 because I think that they’re the best on the market for the WA22.


----------



## jbua5150

@bpcans, I've seem most people agree with you about the Tung Sol 5998!
Im happy to hear that you enjoy the 6SN7WGTA so much!  
They look similar to what I have on the way!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154791078756

As far as the Woo adapter, its in my cart.  
I figured I'd ask here for a few hours before I just pull the trigger with Woo.
I'm so impatient


----------



## mab1376 (Feb 18, 2022)

I have some 5998 tubes on order! Roasty was nice enough to sell his unused ones for a reasonable price.  For drivers, ill start with my psvane 6sn7-uk and nos tung-sol 6su7gty to see what i like better, but from reading, ken-rad will probably be my endgame. Vintage tube services has a good selection of them, so ill get a pair at some point.


----------



## 9bphillips

I have just purchased a WA22. This is my first tube amp so I have a lot to learn. Can anyone tell me if the stock tubes are good or is it worth upgrading right off? Also I am using my dx300 amp 12 as dac for now. It maxes out line out 8 3Vrms. Will that get me bye until I get the holo spring 3kte.


----------



## u2u2

9bphillips said:


> I have just purchased a WA22. This is my first tube amp so I have a lot to learn. Can anyone tell me if the stock tubes are good or is it worth upgrading right off? Also I am using my dx300 amp 12 as dac for now. It maxes out line out 8 3Vrms. Will that get me bye until I get the holo spring 3kte.


The stock tubes will get you off to a fine start and demonstrate the amp functions well. As you are an active member of this forum you are duty bound to roll tubes... but there is no reason to rush things. Be aware that once you start buying tubes an acquisition disorder may result. The amp is just an entry point. Prepare your wallet! The various Woo threads are loaded with pointers. If you don't chase the unicorns your wallet and marriage might survive. No matter the course you choose you will have an excellent amp and good times.


----------



## jbua5150

So the Tung Sol 5998 showed up today. 
One of them appears to have a broken mica plate. It appears to be a small piece out of the edge.   There is a couple pieces floating around inside.  
Is this safe to use?


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, how does it sound despite what you see as a flaw in this one tube?


----------



## mab1376

If plates and grid are unaffected, I don't see how it would cause a problem.


----------



## jbua5150

mab1376 said:


> If plates and grid are unaffected, I don't see how it would cause a problem.


It looks fine other than the chip, and the couple pieces I have seen stuck to the inside glass and loose in the bottom.
I'm gonna power these ehings up!
Thanks for your time and knowledge!


----------



## mab1376

jbua5150 said:


> It looks fine other than the chip, and the couple pieces I have seen stuck to the inside glass and loose in the bottom.
> I'm gonna power these things up!
> Thanks for your time and knowledge!


The mica's main job is to hold things in place. Worst case, vibrations may resonate in the tube a bit more, causing microphonics. So, good luck and happy listening!


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, if you need a second pair of good power tubes to use in your WA22, I would be more than willing to send them to you.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jbua5150 said:


> Ok, I'm weak.
> Seller accepted $155. Not much lower, but still a good deal.
> 
> Anyone have an 596 - 5U4G adapter not in use you'd like to sell?


Good price!  I might have to buy another one just as a backup.  As for the adapter, I just bought the Woo because it looks so nice.  It is very well made, btw.


----------



## jbua5150

bpcans said:


> @jbua5150, how does it sound despite what you see as a flaw in this one tube?


The tube seems to function just fine.  
I cannot discern a difference in sound between the broken mica and unbroken.

To my old ears, the TS5998 sound very similar to my TS7236, but surely an improvement.


----------



## jbua5150

ColSaulTigh said:


> Good price!  I might have to buy another one just as a backup.  As for the adapter, I just bought the Woo because it looks so nice.  It is very well made, btw.


Yeah I tried to make myself order a cheap one, but I love the look of the Woo adapter, so I ordered one today


----------



## mab1376

Does anyone know where to get adapters for 6cg7 drivers?


----------



## u2u2

mab1376 said:


> Does anyone know where to get adapters for 6cg7 drivers?


Check with Woo Audio.
I have three of their tube savers ordered when the unmarked black trim rings were in short supply… 
Upon my OK they provided ones marked 6CG7—->6SN7 leaving me to believe they have them.


----------



## mab1376

u2u2 said:


> Check with Woo Audio.
> I have three of their tube savers ordered when the unmarked black trim rings were in short supply…
> Upon my OK they provided ones marked 6CG7—->6SN7, leaving me to believe they have them.


I'll check on pricing, but looking for something cheap since I came into 4 of these tubes and am not sure of their current status or of they even work.


----------



## u2u2

mab1376 said:


> I'll check on pricing, but looking for something cheap since I came into 4 of these tubes and am not sure of their current status or of they even work.


You gotta know they won’t be cheap. Worth it if you are in it for the long haul otherwise no. Hope you find another source.


----------



## alekc

I wonder if any of wa22 owners had a chance to listen to EAR Yoshino HP4, ideally side-by-side? I've search this topic but even on whole head-fi there is very little about this headphone amp unfortunately.


----------



## mab1376

u2u2 said:


> You gotta know they won’t be cheap. Worth it if you are in it for the long haul otherwise no. Hope you find another source.


Ordered these:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PC-TOP-GO...2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0


----------



## hackstu (Feb 22, 2022)

Roasty said:


> Brand new tube? if so, give it some time to settle down.
> 
> also, is the hum present with other combinations of driver/power tubes + the eml? eg, on my WA33 I get a hum if using Sophia Electric 274b + 300b 2.5v power tubes, but no hum if I use 2a3 power tubes.


OK so changed the drivers to RCAs black base with red lettering, a LOT better but still a very slight hum. I guess complete silence doesn't exist with this amp??


----------



## bpcans

@hackstu, did you get any hum with your WA22 when you had the stock tubes in, thats if you ever did?


----------



## hackstu

@bpcans, yes I did have a slight hum with the stock tubes installed. I've spent far too much on tubes. Had a Psvane we274b which hummed far too much, which got sent back.


----------



## bpcans

@hackstu, _I’ve never had any hum or other issues with my 22 except for the one time last year when a power tubes base broke off in one of the sockets. I had to send it back to Mike Liang at Woo to get repaired, and of course he had it looked over and tested after servicing. Maybe you could contact him about the humming issue that you’re having. He’s really great about answering his emails. That’s of course if you can’t get ahold of him directly, which I find it pretty easy to do by phone. _


----------



## hackstu

@bpcans, no hum with Audeze Lcd-xc.

Thing is though I have not bought the tubes from Woo Audio, so I guess he won't help?. Did send it back to Woo Audio when I first bought the amp, with a clean bill of health.


----------



## mab1376

hackstu said:


> @bpcans, no hum with Audeze Lcd-xc.
> 
> Thing is though I have not bought the tubes from Woo Audio, so I guess he won't help?. Did send it back to Woo Audio when I first bought the amp, with a clean bill of health.


if you can replicate the issue with stock tubes, I don't see why they wouldn't help.

3rd party tubes don't violate the warranty.


----------



## CAJames

hackstu said:


> @bpcans, yes I did have a slight hum with the stock tubes installed...



If you had hum with the stock tubes it may be something besides the tubes. Do you have hum with no sources attached? Have you tried moving the amp (with no sources) to a different room? A cheater plug to break ground loops?


----------



## BananaCarnage

Anyone ever experienced sparks shooting out of the on/hi/lo knob? It’s happens couple of times. Woo says it’s just a fuse, but little concerning.


----------



## mab1376

Can you capture a video of it? or is it really intermittent?


----------



## BananaCarnage

It’s really intermittent it’s only happen 3 times in a month. I thought I had a video of it from my office cam but it wasn’t plugged in . It’s not an arch it sparks from inside the right knob.


----------



## hackstu

mab1376 said:


> if you can replicate the issue with stock tubes, I don't see why they wouldn't help.
> 
> 3rd party tubes don't violate the warranty.


what i've read on this thread and other wa22 threads on this forum, is some tubes just won't play well with the wa22? and the sensitivity of the headphones is also another factor in the hum issues i'm experiencing?


----------



## mab1376

hackstu said:


> @bpcans, yes I did have a slight hum with the stock tubes installed. I've spent far too much on tubes. Had a Psvane we274b which hummed far too much, which got sent back.


what headphones are you using?


----------



## hackstu

Sennheiser HD 820 = faint hum

Audeze LCD XC = no hum


----------



## mab1376

hackstu said:


> Sennheiser HD 820 = faint hum
> 
> Audeze LCD XC = no hum



They're both close in sensitivity, HD820 just a tiny bit more at 103 dB/1mW and the LCD-XC at 100 dB/1mW.

The HD830 has an impedance of 300ohms, and the LCD-XC is only 20ohms.

The XC is more ideal for this transformer output amp since it will demand more current. High impedance cans are better suited for an OTL amp like the WA2. But it should still be ok regardless.

With the HD820, Is the hum more noticeable on the high or low impedance setting?


----------



## hackstu

Yes the hum is more noticeable on high vs low impedance.


----------



## mab1376

hackstu said:


> Yes the hum is more noticeable on high vs low impedance.


something is off, maybe the transformer is starting to go or needs re-orientation.

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/woo2/4.html


----------



## bpcans

@hackstu, could it be the cable on your Sennheiser 820’s isn’t working properly?


----------



## hackstu

No the cable seems ok, maybe I'm too picky wanting perfection and zero hum. It seemed better today?? The hum maybe it's going away as the eml 5u4g is still quite new I've  only had it a week.


----------



## AudioDwebe

Just want to double-check:  The toggle switch for balanced/SE on back of amp - that can be switched with the amp on, correct?

Thanks.


----------



## u2u2

AudioDwebe said:


> Just want to double-check:  The toggle switch for balanced/SE on back of amp - that can be switched with the amp on, correct?
> 
> Thanks.


I pause the music and zero the volume prior to switching. No ill effects in over six years.


----------



## AudioDwebe

Thank you.


----------



## mab1376

Woo is teasing the new Wa23 on instagram.


----------



## jbua5150

mab1376 said:


> Woo is teasing the new Wa23 on instagram.


It looks...... interesting.
Definitely a departure from their normal style.
Any news on what is NEW about it?


----------



## mab1376

jbua5150 said:


> It looks...... interesting.
> Definitely a departure from their normal style.
> Any news on what is NEW about it?


Nothing yet; I'll ask in person tomorrow.


----------



## mab1376 (Feb 27, 2022)

mab1376 said:


> Nothing yet; I'll ask in person tomorrow.


He said its a 2a3 amp with a single ended topology, 6c45 drivers and a 5u4g rectifier, has 4pin xlr in front just for compatability similar to wa5 but also xlr input in the rear. It uses a rk50 pot and has a external psu.


----------



## jonathan c

mab1376 said:


> He said its a 2a3 amp with a single ended topology, 6c45 drivers and a 5u4g rectifier, has 4pin xlr in front just for compatability similar to wa5 but also xlr input in the rear. It uses a rk50 pot and has a external psu.


A tube h/p/a for Pittsburgh Steelers fans! 😆


----------



## orrm

Hey all I'm very interested in getting the WA22 used but it seems like they don't show up often on the classifieds. Send me a message if you're interested in selling. I'm in California. Thanks!


----------



## hackstu (Feb 28, 2022)

Just to let people know if they have a similar problem with their wa22, I had a hum that a ifi audio's GND defender fixed, so ground loop problem all good now no hum.

EDIT 90% hum has gone.


----------



## jbua5150

It’s here!  Got it warming up now


----------



## mab1376

jbua5150 said:


> It’s here!  Got it warming up now


Curious about your impressions, and what was the previous rectifier?


----------



## bpcans

@jbua5150, congratulations on acquiring the mighty USAF 596! It’s a great rectifier tube that should give you years of music enjoyment.


----------



## jbua5150

mab1376 said:


> Curious about your impressions, and what was the previous rectifier?


I am fortunate to have a few Rectifier, Power and Driver tubes, and more often than not I choose the Sophia 274B on the WA22. 
I have only a couple tube combinations, that I don't choose the Sophia.
The Sophia, has a fat juicy (almost sloppy) bottom end that I find enjoyable. 

The 596 very initially felt bass shy in comparison to the Sophia. 
As I sit here and listen more, I can hear a similar quantity of bass that is much better controlled. 

The listening enjoyment just continues to grow


----------



## Thaddy

hackstu said:


> Just to let people know if they have a similar problem with their wa22, I had a hum that a ifi audio's GND defender fixed, so ground loop problem all good now no hum.
> 
> EDIT 90% hum has gone.


I've battled a hum with my WA22 for years, and many combinations of tubes. Looking forward to giving this a shot to see if it helps.


----------



## mab1376

jbua5150 said:


> I am fortunate to have a few Rectifier, Power and Driver tubes, and more often than not I choose the Sophia 274B on the WA22.
> I have only a couple tube combinations, that I don't choose the Sophia.
> The Sophia, has a fat juicy (almost sloppy) bottom end that I find enjoyable.
> 
> ...


That Sophia sounds interesting, my wa22 should be shipping next week, and I grabbed a Brimar 5Z4GY to try since it's highly regarded and cheap. 

My wallet is shuttering


----------



## Renexx

Does anyone know what is the output impedance on high and low Z for the Wa22?


----------



## mab1376

Renexx said:


> Does anyone know what is the output impedance on high and low Z for the Wa22?


I don't see it documented anywhere, might want to email them info@wooaudio.com


----------



## Renexx

mab1376 said:


> I don't see it documented anywhere, might want to email them info@wooaudio.com


I did email them and they didn't tell me any specific number ...


----------



## mab1376

Renexx said:


> I did email them, and they didn't tell me any specific number ...


It may be variable to tubes in use; not sure.


----------



## 9bphillips

Can anyone tell me how much a power cable matters with the WA22? I didn't know it didn't come with one. Is it worth it to invest a little money into one?


----------



## skyhighct

When considering Driver tubes (6SN7), how important is it that they are matched (measurements)?
I am assuming same manufacturer & model.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> Can anyone tell me how much a power cable matters with the WA22? I didn't know it didn't come with one. Is it worth it to invest a little money into one?


This is a loaded question (load - get it?).  Anyway - there are some who will say it makes a huge difference.  There are others who say it doesn't matter at all.  Amplifiers are basically big AC-to-DC converters anyway, so as long as you're feeding them fairly clean power, you should be good with any cable.  Having said that, I am not discounting the benefits of better quality cables in any way.  Until I see some hard evidence though, I'm not convinced they do much more than provide a clean, stable power source.




skyhighct said:


> When considering Driver tubes (6SN7), how important is it that they are matched (measurements)?
> I am assuming same manufacturer & model.


Theoretically, very important.  You want your left and right channel tubes to be as close as possible to each other spec-wise.  This prevents variation in sound quality and levels between each ear.


----------



## hackstu

Has anyone bought a mains cable that has removed any 'hum' that they previously heard through their headphones.


----------



## bpcans

9bphillips said:


> Can anyone tell me how much a power cable matters with the WA22? I didn't know it didn't come with one. Is it worth it to invest a little money into one?


@9bphillips, it is definitely worth it to invest whatever you can afford into getting a good power cable for your Woo Audio WA22. I‘ve been using one of these for ten years now. https://www.stefanaudioart.com/shop/endorphin-alchem-high-end-ribbon-power-cable/#reviews. First with my WA6 and now with my WA22, where it‘s plugged into an AudioQuest Niagara 1200 power conditioner. You do not need to spend a lot to get the benefits of an upgraded power cord! Just please do yourself a favor and don’t get one from the hardware store, Target, or order anything that’s Amazon Basics.


----------



## mab1376

9bphillips said:


> Can anyone tell me how much a power cable matters with the WA22? I didn't know it didn't come with one. Is it worth it to invest a little money into one?


Steve Guttenberg on Youtube highly recommended this one and claimed some significant improvements in sound quality. 

https://store.wireworldcable.com/co...ower-conditioning-cord?variant=12210575442004



Personally, I can't see spending that much on a power cable and believe in good quality, not premium quality cables due to the law of diminishing returns.


----------



## 9bphillips

ColSaulTigh said:


> This is a loaded question (load - get it?).  Anyway - there are some who will say it makes a huge difference.  There are others who say it doesn't matter at all.  Amplifiers are basically big AC-to-DC converters anyway, so as long as you're feeding them fairly clean power, you should be good with any cable.  Having said that, I am not discounting the benefits of better quality cables in any way.  Until I see some hard evidence though, I'm not convinced they do much more than provide a clean, stable power source.
> 
> 
> 
> Theoretically, very important.  You want your left and right channel tubes to be as close as possible to each other spec-wise.  This prevents variation in sound quality and levels between each ear.


I was wondering mainly because when I replaced the power cable on my Soloist 3xp and Soloist GT to the supercharger it made a diff


mab1376 said:


> Steve Guttenberg on Youtube highly recommended this one and claimed some significant improvements in sound quality.
> 
> https://store.wireworldcable.com/co...ower-conditioning-cord?variant=12210575442004
> 
> ...



Ok thanks I'm about to watch it. 


bpcans said:


> @9bphillips, it is definitely worth it to invest whatever you can afford into getting a good power cable for your Woo Audio WA22. I‘ve been using one of these for ten years now. https://www.stefanaudioart.com/shop/endorphin-alchem-high-end-ribbon-power-cable/#reviews. First with my WA6 and now with my WA22, where it‘s plugged into an AudioQuest Niagara 1200 power conditioner. You do not need to spend a lot to get the benefits of an upgraded power cord! Just please do yourself a favor and don’t get one from the hardware store, Target, or order anything that’s Amazon Basics.


Oh no I will definitely get a nice cable. I have the WA22 and the Soloist GT as my solid state amp and will be getting he holo spring 3kte next for my dac. I wouldn't spend that much on my gear to get extra tight with the interconnect cables. I knew this would be just like any other cable discussion where both sides strongly believe in what they say. Some hear differences in cables some don't.  It makes me wonder if some amps and dacs respond better to better power cords than others. So you think I should get a decent power cable and invest in a power conditioner later? I need more plugs anyways! Lol


----------



## bpcans

@9bphillips, I think it’s smart to put together your system piece by piece, because that way you’re able to really focus on the components and interconnecting cables synergy with each other. I’ve heard good things about the Holo Audio - Spring 3 KTE DAC. https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/spring-3-dac/. The number of folks who enjoy its sound signature is growing everyday.


----------



## 9bphillips (Mar 3, 2022)

mab1376 said:


> Steve Guttenberg on Youtube highly recommended this one and claimed some significant improvements in sound quality.
> 
> https://store.wireworldcable.com/co...ower-conditioning-cord?variant=12210575442004
> 
> ...



Thanks for the video. I just bought the copper cablenfor $260. I couldn't justify spending $500 on the silver one and definitely not $2200 for the platinum cable!


----------



## mab1376

9bphillips said:


> Thanks for the video. I just bought the copper cablenfor $260. I couldn't justify spending $500 on the silver one and definitely not $2200 for the platinum cable!


Hope it does something good for you! Let us know your impressions when you get it.


----------



## 9bphillips

mab1376 said:


> Hope it does something good for you! Let us know your impressions when you get it.


Will do !


----------



## mab1376

It finally arrived! My Bifrost 2 is feeding it with a HE-500 connected.


----------



## Thaddy

Clear top 6AS7G's put out some nice glow at night.


----------



## bpcans

@Thaddy, very nice amp! Can you tell me about those rings around your power and driver tubes? And what type of rectifier tube is that? Thnx


----------



## mab1376

bpcans said:


> @Thaddy, very nice amp! Can you tell me about those rings around your power and driver tubes? And what type of rectifier tube is that? Thnx


Those are dampers to absorp vibrations that may cause unwanted sounds.

https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/tube-dampers


----------



## bpcans

@mab1376, are they more for show or are they dependent upon the amount of physical vibrations that can be in someone’s listening room? I’m asking because I honestly don’t know.


----------



## mab1376

bpcans said:


> @mab1376, are they more for show or are they dependent upon the amount of physical vibrations that can be in someone’s listening room? I’m asking because I honestly don’t know.


They are functional and not for show, the site I linked gives a pretty good description.


----------



## Thaddy

bpcans said:


> @Thaddy, very nice amp! Can you tell me about those rings around your power and driver tubes? And what type of rectifier tube is that? Thnx


@bpcans is correct, those are just tube dampers from Herbie's Audio Lab.  I've always used them, but to be honest I've never tested them with and without.  They do look neat though.

My rectifier is a Mullard Amperex 5AR4.  The folks over in the 5AR4/5U4G tube rolling thread dug up a bit more info about it:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dub...-rolling-thread.694525/page-142#post-16851058.


----------



## bpcans

@Thaddy, thanks for the link. It’s super quiet and remote where I live so I’m not sure if the dampeners would be of much use. But I’ll still research their efficacy.


----------



## mab1376

bpcans said:


> @Thaddy, thanks for the link. It’s super quiet and remote where I live so I’m not sure if the dampeners would be of much use. But I’ll still research their efficacy.


my desk is MDF material which has great anti-resonance properties, I've never needed them.

If you hear still when using stuff in your rack or walking around your house, then they make sense.

On another note, trying out some RCA 6CG7 today!


----------



## Thaddy

bpcans said:


> @Thaddy, thanks for the link. It’s super quiet and remote where I live so I’m not sure if the dampeners would be of much use. But I’ll still research their efficacy.


In my opinion you won't notice them most of the time.  But, if you've got a bit of disposable income they can be fun to experiment with.  They also look pretty neat.

@mab1376, very nice 5998's!  My set is long gone after one of the tubes died.  I bought them back before people were snatching them up, and I think I pad $80 for the matched pair.  That order also included a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6AS7G's for $40.  One of these days I may bite the bullet and get another set, they certainly are excellent tubes.


----------



## mab1376

Thaddy said:


> In my opinion you won't notice them most of the time.  But, if you've got a bit of disposable income they can be fun to experiment with.  They also look pretty neat.
> 
> @mab1376, very nice 5998's!  My set is long gone after one of the tubes died.  I bought them back before people were snatching them up, and I think I pad $80 for the matched pair.  That order also included a matched pair of NOS Chatham 6AS7G's for $40.  One of these days I may bite the bullet and get another set, they certainly are excellent tubes.


It hurts looking at 10+ year old threads where people are buying and selling 5998's like candy. Woo's site now has $900 for a matched pair, I was lucky to get them for a 3rd of that nowadays.


----------



## elwappo99

If anyone is interested in selling their WA22, please let me know! Been trying to track one down. I'd prefer 1st gen since I don't have a need for the preamp functionality (either color).


----------



## jbua5150

Not my listing, but I saw this
@elwappo99 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/393975623999?hash=item5bbac6f13f:g:z9QAAOSwLz5iJgZa


----------



## elwappo99

jbua5150 said:


> Not my listing, but I saw this
> @elwappo99
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/393975623999?hash=item5bbac6f13f:g:z9QAAOSwLz5iJgZa



Thanks for thinking of me! I spoke that dealer before they had listed it.  The price seems kind of high to me. It's a Gen1 without a preamp, so $2k is a bit steep IMO.


----------



## jbua5150

elwappo99 said:


> Thanks for thinking of me! I spoke that dealer before they had listed it.  The price seems kind of high to me. It's a Gen1 without a preamp, so $2k is a bit steep IMO.


Oh yeah, thats a bit spendy even for a Gen 2 honestly.  Unless the sale includes high dollar tubes as well?  
From what I can see in the picture, the Sophia is maybe the most valuable at $200 new, so yeah, pretty high asking price.


----------



## 9bphillips

I am using my WA22 preamp out to my Solist GT and I noticed I have volume control on the WA22 and the GT. Should I have the GT set any certain way as far as volume? I was using the WA22 volume.


----------



## mab1376

I would set the soloist to 80-90% (treat it like a power amp) and don't touch it, just use the WA22 from there on.


----------



## 9bphillips

mab1376 said:


> I would set the soloist to 80-90% (treat it like a power amp) and don't touch it, just use the WA22 from there on.


Thats actually what I have it on. It is easier to use the WA22. The sound with the WA22 and GT is just ridiculously good! I think I'm set! Thanks for the advice!


----------



## 9bphillips

Ok so I just ran out of gas  at my house. I can't get any until next week so I will be using space heaters for now.  Will the cold mess with the tubes? When I get home from work in the morning should I cut a heater on and let the room heat up some before cutting on the WA22 on or can I cut it on like normal?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> Ok so I just ran out of gas  at my house. I can't get any until next week so I will be using space heaters for now.  Will the cold mess with the tubes? When I get home from work in the morning should I cut a heater on and let the room heat up some before cutting on the WA22 on or can I cut it on like normal?


The difference in ambient temperature won't make much of a difference, unless we're talking about sub-zero temps.  In that case, I'd try to let them warm up a bit so the glass doesn't crack from thermal difference.


----------



## jbua5150

What DAC is everyone using?
Im thinking of upgrading, but want a bit of a different view from what Ive been looking at.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jbua5150 said:


> What DAC is everyone using?
> Im thinking of upgrading, but want a bit of a different view from what Ive been looking at.


I'm using a VMV D1se (S.M.S.L "Lux Brand" item).  Works fine - very clean and neutral.  I'll start moving up once I get a speaker setup going.


----------



## mab1376

jbua5150 said:


> What DAC is everyone using?
> Im thinking of upgrading, but want a bit of a different view from what Ive been looking at.


Very happy with my bifrost 2, also considering a leap to a Denafrips pontus II, something of that caliber I need to demo first though.


----------



## duranxv

jbua5150 said:


> What DAC is everyone using?
> Im thinking of upgrading, but want a bit of a different view from what Ive been looking at.



I use a Holo Spring 3 KTE with the WA22 as a pre-amp into a Sparkos Aries  (soon I will be pairing the WA22 with a Ferrum OOR + Hypsos)


----------



## jonathan c

jbua5150 said:


> What DAC is everyone using?
> Im thinking of upgrading, but want a bit of a different view from what Ive been looking at.


Mojo Audio Mystique (Pro).


----------



## jbua5150

Has anyone paired the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ or Brooklyn Bridge with the WA22.  
I have heard the the Myteks can be a little bright or forward.  This may be a pleasurable combo for me.


----------



## 9bphillips

How long is it ok to leave the WA22 on?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Manual for my WA6-SE says 5-6 hours.  I accidentally left mine on overnight on more than one occasion - other than excess tube burn, no detriment that I can find...


----------



## duranxv

9bphillips said:


> How long is it ok to leave the WA22 on?



The guys at Woo recommend that you shouldn't operate it for more than 8 hours straight


----------



## 9bphillips

duranxv said:


> The guys at Woo recommend that you shouldn't operate it for more than 8 hours straight


Ok cool. Thx for the info. What is recommended warm up time before listening?


----------



## jbua5150 (Mar 14, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> Ok cool. Thx for the info. What is recommended warm up time before listening?


According to the WA22 manual:
“Wait until the LED becomes solid and let the tubes warm up for at least 1 minute before turning up the volume”

I let mine warm for at least 5 minutes, or until I stop hearing the tubes making noises.


----------



## 9bphillips

jbua5150 said:


> According to the WA22 manual:
> “Wait until the LED becomes solid and let the tubes warm up for at least 1 minute before turning up the volume”
> 
> I let mine warm for at least 5 minutes, or until I stop hearing the tubes making noises.


Ok thanks. I had read what Woo Audio suggested but sometimes what the company suggest isn't what happens in real life. For instance my Soloist GT takes 30  min to an hour to be fully warmed up at least to my ears. Burson doesn't quote that long but many other users feel the same as me. I didn't know if the WA22 could be the same. Thanks for clearing things up for me.


----------



## Thaddy

jbua5150 said:


> Has anyone paired the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ or Brooklyn Bridge with the WA22.
> I have heard the the Myteks can be a little bright or forward.  This may be a pleasurable combo for me.


The often overlooked Benchmark DAC3 B may be a good option too.  I've been using this DAC for 4-5 years and have been extremely happy.  I don't think it's bright, just extremely neutral and resolving.


----------



## 9bphillips

When tube rolling is it best to replace them all at once or can you replace a few at a time? If you can do a few at a time which tubes should you start with and which will make the most impact. Sorry for all the questions but I am new with tubes and need advice. Thanks in advance!


----------



## mab1376

9bphillips said:


> When tube rolling is it best to replace them all at once or can you replace a few at a time? If you can do a few at a time which tubes should you start with and which will make the most impact. Sorry for all the questions but I am new with tubes and need advice. Thanks in advance!


1 set at a time is best to evaluate the change, e.g. driver, power, rectifier.

I haven't noticed drastic differences with power or driver tubes other than less volume on the knob required with 5998's (I haven't tried all that many to be fair), but the ones I ironically thought would have the least impact but seemingly have the most are rectifier tubes.

They seem to alter power delivery to the system, for example, my 5Z4GY has fast and punchy bass compared to the Sophia 274b with my HE-500.


----------



## bpcans

@mab1376, have tried the ECC35 power tubes?


----------



## mab1376 (Mar 14, 2022)

bpcans said:


> @mab1376, have tried the ECC35 power tubes?


No, not yet.

Wouldn't these be driver tubes? I did try 6SY7GTY but there was some minimal distortion here and there with 5998, did not try with 6AS7G yet.


----------



## 9bphillips (Mar 16, 2022)

I am looking to roll my first tubes and wanted to start with the power tubes because I have been told that they would make the most impact. I would love some suggestions on some good power tubes. I have no idea what tube does what but I have been told that power tubes are where I should start. I have looked at Mullard 6080 and Tungsol 5998 . I have no idea which one is best out of those 2. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## mab1376

9bphillips said:


> I am looking to roll my first tubes and wanted to start with the power tubes because I have been told that they would make the most impact. I would love some suggestions on some good power tubes. I have no idea what tube does what but I have been told that power tubes are where I should start. I have looked at Mullard 6080 and Tungsol 5998 . I have no idea which one is best out of those 2. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks!


I'm really liking my Raytheon (probably rebranded RCA) 6AS7G, 5998 is better for planars like my HE-500 since they can push more power but are very expensive. I paid $300 for a used pair. 

However, the Brimar 5Z4GY recitifer makes the bass have a much deeper and tighter slam, which is great for rock music, and they're pretty cheap comparatively. 

I got the Sophia 274b with mesh plates, and it's great and pulls the midrange a bit more forward, but the Brimar is just so much fun!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> I'm really liking my Raytheon (probably rebranded RCA) 6AS7G, 5998 is better for planars like my HE-500 since they can push more power but are very expensive. I paid $300 for a used pair.
> 
> However, the Brimar 5Z4GY recitifer makes the bass have a much deeper and tighter slam, which is great for rock music, and they're pretty cheap comparatively.
> 
> I got the Sophia 274b with mesh plates, and it's great and pulls the midrange a bit more forward, but the Brimar is just so much fun!


I second the Brimar 5Z4GY as an incredible value tube!  Nice, tight sound overall, super bold, very forward-sounding, and can be found on eBay fairly inexpensively.

Check my signature, I've got quite the myriad of rectifiers.  Some fantastic, some god-awful (I'm looking at you Ken-Rad...).  The Sophia Princess is a very good tube, but not the grail.  My Emission Labs, Takatsuki, and KR 5U4G RK Anniversary edition all out-perform it.  As does, IMO, the Brimar.  A fair word of warning though, the Brimar runs hot.  Very hot.  Like NUCLEAR REACTOR CORE HOT!  Just don't grab it while it's on, is what I'm saying.

Otherwise, the world is your oyster (*Russia and Ukraine excluded for the time-being) - go explore and see what you can find that you might like!


----------



## Thaddy

9bphillips said:


> I am looking to roll my first tubes and wanted to start with the power tubes because I have been told that they would make the most impact. I would love some suggestions on some good power tubes. I have no idea what tube does what but I have been told that power tubes are where I should start. I have looked at Mullard 6080 and Tungsol 5998 . I have no idea which one is best out of those 2. Any suggestions are appreciated! Thanks!


RCA 6AS7G, Sylvania and Tung Sol 7236, and Tung Sol 6080/6080WA are good fairly inexpensive power tubes to start with.  I've been very happy with my assorted pairs of those variants.


----------



## 9bphillips

Thanks so much for the info. That is very helpful! It's weird you talked about tightening the bass because that is one thing i wanted to do.


----------



## Thaddy

I actually picked up one of the Brimar 5Z4GY's that @ColSaulTigh linked. Regarding rectifiers, I've been very happy with the following:

RCA 5U4G Top Getter
RCA JAN 5R4GY - Dual-Bottom Getter Smooth Plate
RCA JAN 5R4GY - Single Bottom Getter Smooth Plate
All have extremely low noise and can be found quite easily on eBay, although the 5R4GY with the dual-bottom getter is getting more expensive.  I believe I sourced my tube from Arizona Tube Supply for $75 a while back.

And regarding tight bass, I always felt that my Sylvania 7236 power tubes were the king of low end.


----------



## 9bphillips

Is it safe for me to leave my WA22 running with headphones only plugged in. No xlr or rca. I need to know because I like to listen to just my solid state alone sometimes too. I am using my dx300 as dac with 4.4mm to dual xlr to the WA22 or Soloist GT.I have to unplug when I want to listen to the WA22 or the Soloist GT alone. I just need to know if it is safe .


----------



## bpcans

9bphillips said:


> Is it safe for me to leave my WA22 running with headphones only plugged in. No xlr or rca. I need to know because I like to listen to just my solid state alone sometimes too. I am using my dx300 as dac with 4.4mm to dual xlr to the WA22 or Soloist GT.I have to unplug when I want to listen to the WA22 or the Soloist GT alone. I just need to know if it is safe .


I try to leave my WA22 on only six hours at a time if I’m at home. But the SQ gets better when the tubes are warmed up.


----------



## jbua5150

9bphillips said:


> Is it safe for me to leave my WA22 running with headphones only plugged in. No xlr or rca. I need to know because I like to listen to just my solid state alone sometimes too. I am using my dx300 as dac with 4.4mm to dual xlr to the WA22 or Soloist GT.I have to unplug when I want to listen to the WA22 or the Soloist GT alone. I just need to know if it is safe .


I have found myself wondering the same thing.
When I like to test different XLR cables, I usually power the amp off between cable swaps.
I feel like this may be overkill with the XLR, as you "should" be able to plug/unplug without issue. (with source paused and volume cut)
RCA cables in my experience, do NOT like to be plugged/unplugged while powered on (often makes an audible pop and subsequent hum when the tip is inserted until the ring makes contact)
It would certainly make my XLR input cable testing MUCH faster if I knew it was safe to hot-swap (with source paused and volume cut)


----------



## 9bphillips

jbua5150 said:


> I have found myself wondering the same thing.
> When I like to test different XLR cables, I usually power the amp off between cable swaps.
> I feel like this may be overkill with the XLR, as you "should" be able to plug/unplug without issue. (with source paused and volume cut)
> RCA cables in my experience, do NOT like to be plugged/unplugged while powered on (often makes an audible pop and subsequent hum when the tip is inserted until the ring makes contact)
> It would certainly make my XLR input cable testing MUCH faster if I knew it was safe to hot-swap (with source paused and volume cut)


So I called Woo Audio and they said that when disconnecting the xlr I should disconnect my headphones first and then the xlr.  He said it could cause a pop in your headphones which could blow a driver. You don't have to power down. Afterwards plug headphones back in if the wa22 will continue to run. So you can leave wa22 running as long as headphones are plugged in so the load has somewhere to go.


----------



## jbua5150

My first WA6-SE blew a capacitor while I had headphones plugged in.  Even though the volume was all the way down, there was a very loud POP that came through my headphones.  
Since then, I’ve found these “burn in tool” from Xduoo. 
Basically a 16ohm load at all times.  
When I power on with new tubes etc, I use the burn in tool without having to worry about possible driver issues if something goes sideways on power up. 

https://xduoo.net/product/burn-in-tool/


----------



## 9bphillips

Has anyone compared single ended to balanced headphone output? I'm just curious about your findings.


----------



## bpcans

9bphillips said:


> Has anyone compared single ended to balanced headphone output? I'm just curious about your findings.


@9bphillips, to my ears the balanced hp output sounds much better than the single ended.


----------



## jbua5150 (Mar 30, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> Has anyone compared single ended to balanced headphone output? I'm just curious about your findings.





bpcans said:


> @9bphillips, to my ears the balanced hp output sounds much better than the single ended


I agree with @bpcans.   There seems to be a wider and deeper soundstage.  More natural and musical.


----------



## 9bphillips

jbua5150 said:


> I agree with @bpcans.   There seems to be a wider and deeper soundstage.  More natural and musical.


I did about a 5 minute comparison but I have to agree with the wider and deeper soundstage.


----------



## Thaddy

For those that have a 596 rectifier, what adapter are you using?  The ones from Woo Audio are expensive but are they worth it?  This is the one rectifier I haven't tried and I'd like to get one.


----------



## jonathan c

Thaddy said:


> For those that have a 596 rectifier, what adapter are you using?  The ones from Woo Audio are expensive but are they worth it?  This is the one rectifier I haven't tried and I'd like to get one.


I have the USAF 596 rectifier (goes back/forth from WA6/WA6SE with the Woo adapter. It _is _pricey but it is _well_ made and has _the look._ I have no regrets on that purchase.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Also using the Woo Audio adapter with my USAF "Mighty" 596.  I didn't buy a cheap amplifier, why would I buy a cheap component for it?  Buy once, cry once.


----------



## jbua5150 (Mar 31, 2022)

Thaddy said:


> For those that have a 596 rectifier, what adapter are you using?  The ones from Woo Audio are expensive but are they worth it?  This is the one rectifier I haven't tried and I'd like to get one.


I despise the look of the eBay cheap adapters.
The Woo Audio adapters are made of high quality materials and they look and feel accordingly.  Their adapter should last the life of the amplifier.
I’m not sure the same could be said for the others.
I am very satisfied with the purchase.


----------



## Thaddy

I actually just found some old 6922 -> 6SN7 adapters from when I had my WA2.  And yes, they definitely well made, it seems worth it to get the tube and adapter combo directly from Woo Audio.  Thanks for the opinions.


----------



## NoTimeFor

Does anyone have experience with both McIntosh MHA200 and WA22? I expect sound would be different enough so that its complementary to keep both?


----------



## mab1376

NoTimeFor said:


> Does anyone have experience with both McIntosh MHA200 and WA22? I expect sound would be different enough so that its complementary to keep both?






not a direct comparison, but the same guy. and it's a gen1 wa22, so impressions may not match current reality.


----------



## bpcans

@NoTimeFor, as soon as my audio gear guy, who’s also a big McIntosh dealer, got one of the MHA 200’s in I went and demoed it using my own hp’s. IMO the sound was meh . Compared to my WA22 it felt cheap and sounded thin.


----------



## Thaddy

I finally have the Tung Sol 5998's back in my collection after years of waiting for the right pair to pop up.  They're warming up with some 1948 RCA Victor Gray Glass 6SN7's and a 1951 Mullard Amperex 5AR4.


----------



## 9bphillips

What tubes should I change first on my WA22? Which would give the most improvements? Also what tube would you buy if Price wasn't a big deal?


----------



## jonathan c (Apr 17, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> What tubes should I change first on my WA22? Which would give the most improvements? Also what tube would you buy if Price wasn't a big deal?


Rectifier.  Brimar CV1863 KB/FE. (Edited)


----------



## 9bphillips

jonathan c said:


> Rectifier.  Brimar CV1893 KB/FE.


Ok so rectifier would be most impact on sound change. I had heard that before but couldn't remember which tube would give the most change. Ghx for the quick reply.


----------



## duranxv

9bphillips said:


> What tubes should I change first on my WA22? Which would give the most improvements? Also what tube would you buy if Price wasn't a big deal?



Agreed - rectifier.  I went all the way and got the KR Audio 274B rectifier tube.  Really nice sound


----------



## Roasty

9bphillips said:


> What tubes should I change first on my WA22? Which would give the most improvements? Also what tube would you buy if Price wasn't a big deal?



biggest change for me was to ecc35 6sl7 tubes. a pair of Mullards, since price is no object! 

actually between the tubes above and new power tubes eg TS5998, both are good options. Happy tube rolling!


----------



## 9bphillips

duranxv said:


> Agreed - rectifier.  I went all the way and got the KR Audio 274B rectifier tube.  Really nice sound


Do you think $550 is a good price?


----------



## jonathan c

9bphillips said:


> Ok so rectifier would be most impact on sound change. I had heard that before but couldn't remember which tube would give the most change. Ghx for the quick reply.


I once owned the WA22; I currently own the WA2, WA3, WA6, and WA6SE. I have found, at least for Woo Audio h/p/a, that those with tube rectification show greater sonic changes with rectifier tube changes than with driver/power tube changes. Hence my suggestion to _start_ with the rectifier tube(s).


----------



## duranxv

9bphillips said:


> Do you think $550 is a good price?



Very good.  As long as it's legit


----------



## jbua5150

9bphillips said:


> What tubes should I change first on my WA22? Which would give the most improvements? Also what tube would you buy if Price wasn't a big deal?


I find all the tubes to make an audible change (even the combinations of them). 
The Rectifier provides the biggest change, without big $$.
My first tube upgrade was the Rectifier, to a Sophia 274B.  That tube was pretty good. It has more Bass than the stock Rectifier.  
Now that I have upgraded Power and Driver tubes to meet my sound preferences, I do not use the Sophia with them.
Tube synergy seems to be a thing, to my ear. I now have many tube combinations that I enjoy (even a few combos that are not so great)


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> Do you think $550 is a good price?


I paid just under $400USD shipped from Tube Amp Doctor.  I think it took about 2 weeks to get here.

Personally, I found the standard KR Audio 274B to be a very clean and clinical tube, kinda lacking personality.  I MUCH prefer the *KR Audio 5U4G "Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition"* - about $100 more (that one is around $500 USD shipped), but it sounds bigger, beefier, with better bass, wider soundstaging, and overall just a thicker sound.  IMO, YMMV.


----------



## bpcans

I just get my tube recommendations for the WA22 from @Roasty, and I’ve been all good ever since I did.


----------



## u2u2

Roasty said:


> biggest change for me was to ecc35 6sl7 tubes. a pair of Mullards, since price is no object!
> 
> actually between the tubes above and new power tubes eg TS5998, both are good options. Happy tube rolling!


I don't recall ever seeing the 6SL7 as a compatible tube for the WA22. The current  link on the Woo site for the updated chart doesn't seem to work. Has Woo officially said the 6SL7 are OK to use? Don't want to risk my amp if I stray too far from what they consider as OK.


----------



## Thaddy

u2u2 said:


> I don't recall ever seeing the 6SL7 as a compatible tube for the WA22. The current  link on the Woo site for the updated chart doesn't seem to work. Has Woo officially said the 6SL7 are OK to use? Don't want to risk my amp if I stray too far from what they consider as OK.


Here's the link.  6SL7 isn't listed as compatible for the WA22.


----------



## Roasty

@Thaddy @u2u2 

Oh, is the ECC35 not a 6sl7 equivalent? I read something about the heater drawing different values, but are otherwise listed on the same page together. 

eg https://tubedepot.com/products/mullard-made-ecc35-6sl7gt


----------



## Thaddy

Oh, interesting.  I didn't realize that.  I suppose an email to Woo Audio could confirm, but I imagine those should be compatible then.


----------



## bpcans

Here’s a WA22 tube compatibility chart. https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1405840/Woo-Audio-Wa22.html?page=11


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> I paid just under $400USD shipped from Tube Amp Doctor.  I think it took about 2 weeks to get here.
> 
> Personally, I found the standard KR Audio 274B to be a very clean and clinical tube, kinda lacking personality.  I MUCH prefer the *KR Audio 5U4G "Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition"* - about $100 more (that one is around $500 USD shipped), but it sounds bigger, beefier, with better bass, wider soundstaging, and overall just a thicker sound.  IMO, YMMV.



Interesting, I might have to check that out. How's the synergy between it and Tung Sol 5998's? 

Does the KR 5U4G get bloated in terms of bass? Or is it more punchy?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Interesting, I might have to check that out. How's the synergy between it and Tung Sol 5998's?
> 
> Does the KR 5U4G get bloated in terms of bass? Or is it more punchy?


The KR 5U4G RK is perhaps the closest thing to the perfect "tube" sound you can get from the WA6-SE.  The bass is present, but not overwhelming, and it never gets bloated, boomy, or fatigue.

I've only had the Tung-Sol since Monday, and haven't given it a ton of listen time.  I've got two powerhouse headphones coming on Monday (ZMF Atrium and Meze Elite) and plan to spend significant time with both on both Woos to get some good comparisons.  Stay tuned.


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> The KR 5U4G RK is perhaps the closest thing to the perfect "tube" sound you can get from the WA6-SE.  The bass is present, but not overwhelming, and it never gets bloated, boomy, or fatigue.
> 
> I've only had the Tung-Sol since Monday, and haven't given it a ton of listen time.  I've got two powerhouse headphones coming on Monday (ZMF Atrium and Meze Elite) and plan to spend significant time with both on both Woos to get some good comparisons.  Stay tuned.



Nice! Looking forward to your impressions. You definitely got me intrigued about trying it on my WA22


----------



## mab1376 (Apr 16, 2022)

Thaddy said:


> Here's the link.  6SL7 isn't listed as compatible for the WA22.


6SL7 has higher amplification and lower transconductance than 6SN7. I would only go for 6SL7 if the equipment spec required it. I tried some 6SU7GTY (6SL7 equivalent) tubes on my WA22 and noticed a small amount of distortion.

6SN7
Plate voltage 250
Grid voltage -8
Amplification factor 20
Plate resistance 7,700 ohms
Transconductance 2600
Plate current 9 ma.
Plate dissipation 2.5 watts

6SL7 6SU7
Plate voltage 250
Grid voltage -2
Amplification factor 70
Plate resistance 44,000 ohms
Transconductance 1600
Plate current 2.3 ma.
Plate dissipation 1 watt

on ECC35 vs 6SL7:

"ECC35 has another operating point, but it will fit in normal 6SL7 circuits since this is a high gain tube and auto bias is functioning very nicely with high gain tubes. ECC35 has 0,4 Amps filament current, whereas 6SL7 has 0.3 Amps. A higher lifetime is produced by the higher filament current."

As for rectifiers, it's essentially swapping a major component of the PSU that affects power delivery. With my HE-500 I prefer my 5Z4GY in low Z mode (higher current capabilities I suppose). With my HD650 I prefer the Sophia 274b in high Z mode, seemingly has a fatter mid-bass which sounds great with doom metal (Electric wizard) and very forward bass guitar (Oh Sees), not sure what contributes to that electrically.


----------



## Roasty (Apr 16, 2022)

Mullard ecc35/6sl7 + TS5998 will drive the susvara/TC out of the wa22 easily. the guy I sold my WA22 to ended up purchasing that tube combo after a few days and he said it sounded glorious, like a completely diff amp for the TC. of all the tubes I had, that was the only combo I had that could do justice to the Sus/TC on the WA22.

but the combo will be overkill (volume wise) for sensitive headphones like the Utopia/Stellia. I had 3 pairs of mullard ecc35 and for the slightly noisier tubes, a faint background hum can be heard on the focal headphones.

*edit oh someone just listed a pair of Philips ecc35 on the classifieds.. pretty decent price too.


----------



## Thaddy

I’ve got a pair of 6SL7’s on the way. I suppose the 5998’s will have to take a seat when driving more efficient headphones. Sounds like they’re safe to use though?


----------



## Roasty

Thaddy said:


> I’ve got a pair of 6SL7’s on the way. I suppose the 5998’s will have to take a seat when driving more efficient headphones. Sounds like they’re safe to use though?



I used the combo with my Utopia. no issues. just reduce some gain at the source if u can (dac volume/roon dsp). let us know if u like the 6sl7 tubes!


----------



## jbua5150 (Apr 17, 2022)

There is a post on page 6 in this thread where someone had an email from Woo about this.
I have used TungSol 6C8G with adapters (6SL7 equivalent) in my WA22.
They seem to have more gain than 6SN7 but also do have a bit of noise.


----------



## bpcans (Apr 17, 2022)

@Roasty, I also found that my WA22 with the ECC35’s with the Tung Sol 5998’s could easily drive the Susvara’s and the TC’s. This after umpteen numbers of folks insisted that I would need a large speaker amplifier to even get close to making those two hp’s perform at an acceptable level. The ECC35’s were too much for my Utopia’s, and that’s why I’ve settled on using 2 Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s from the 1950’s as my driver tubes.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, I also found that my WA22 with the ECC35’s with the Tung Sol 5998’s could easily drive the Susvara’s and the TC’s. This after umpteen numbers of folks insisted that I would need a large speaker amplifier to even get close to making those two hp’s perform at an acceptable level. The ECC35’s were to much for my Utopia’s, and that’s why I’ve settled on using 2 Sylvania brown base 6SN7’s from the 1950’s as my driver tubes.



Yep and for the TC and Sus, the key word there is "easily". that tube combo provides more than enough volume, I never had to go past 11-12 o'clock on the WA22 for either of those headphones. 

the issues with using those tube/WA22 with the intention of use with the TC and Sus are, 1. the tubes, they're expensive and not as easily sourced, 2. by the time u add up cost of the WA22 and those tubes and also throw in a good rectifier, you're already in speaker amp territory for cost (eg kinki exm1+ does a fantastic job, without the hassle of tubes). also, at that price the Ferrum oor/hypsos combo comes into play, which can be used with almost every hp and iem out there. 

of course there are other amps out there, but I can only speak for the ones I've owned/tried, and what the WA22 does have going for it is the relatively small form factor compared to larger speaker amp, looks great on the rack/table, as well as the allure of tubes (well at least for me). I do wish I kept my WA22, and think about it a lot! I definitely preferred it over the GSX mini and Benchmark HPA4.


----------



## mab1376

jonathan c said:


> Rectifier.  Brimar CV1893 KB/FE.


Do you have more info on this tube?


----------



## jonathan c

•  TYPO:  the rectifier tube is the Brimar CV1863 KB/FE. I am sorry that I did not catch the error sooner 😳. The notation on the tube also includes ‘5Z4GY’.
•  This tube exudes power and control. Clarity, depth, force are _there._ At this point, it is my favourite rectifier tube for WA6 and WA6SE. Plus, it is _not_ expensive!


----------



## mab1376

jonathan c said:


> •  TYPO:  the rectifier tube is the Brimar CV1863 KB/FE. I am sorry that I did not catch the error sooner 😳. The notation on the tube also includes ‘5Z4GY’.
> •  This tube exudes power and control. Clarity, depth, force are _there._ At this point, it is my favourite rectifier tube for WA6 and WA6SE. Plus, it is _not_ expensive!


Thanks for clarifying! I have one and prefer it with my HE-500 over my Sophia 274b. I do prefer the Sophia with my HD650's however.


----------



## Thaddy

Roasty said:


> I used the combo with my Utopia. no issues. just reduce some gain at the source if u can (dac volume/roon dsp). let us know if u like the 6sl7 tubes!


My DAC3B has jumpers, I can set it to -20dB.  Looks like my tubes shipped too.  I picked up some NOS National Union's from 1945


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> The KR 5U4G RK is perhaps the closest thing to the perfect "tube" sound you can get from the WA6-SE.  The bass is present, but not overwhelming, and it never gets bloated, boomy, or fatigue.
> 
> I've only had the Tung-Sol since Monday, and haven't given it a ton of listen time.  I've got two powerhouse headphones coming on Monday (ZMF Atrium and Meze Elite) and plan to spend significant time with both on both Woos to get some good comparisons.  Stay tuned.


How would you compare this to the 596?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> How would you compare this to the 596?


The Mighty 596 is thicker and meatier, but a bit slower.  Think molasses vs. simple syrup.  Both are bold and capable, but the KR 5U4G RK is just in another league.

If your budget allows, buy both and compare, then sell the one you don't like.  Or keep them both, like I do, because I have an obsessive collection disorder.


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> The Mighty 596 is thicker and meatier, but a bit slower.  Think molasses vs. simple syrup.  Both are bold and capable, but the KR 5U4G RK is just in another league.
> 
> If your budget allows, buy both and compare, then sell the one you don't like.  Or keep them both, like I do, because I have an obsessive collection disorder.


Thanks, just for reference to your comments, what headphones do you primarily use, and what genre of music do you usually go for?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> Thanks, just for reference to your comments, what headphones do you primarily use, and what genre of music do you usually go for?


I switch them out, but I've been using my Meze Empyreans for the past two weeks, with a smattering of my Focal Clear MG (w/Stellia pads) and my Sendy Peacock.  The Utopia gets brought out every now and again, but not recently (too many new toys to play with).  Last night was night #1 with my ZMF Atrium LTD Bubingas.

As for music, I have a fairly wide gamut of musical tastes, but lately it's been either *Metal Covers* or *Blues Rock*.  When I'm doing critical testing/listening, I have a *playlist on Tidal* that has everything from Rock to Country to Jazz to Classical.  I'm not a huge EDM/House music fan, a bit too old for that, but the Crystal Method pops in from time-to-time.


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> I switch them out, but I've been using my Meze Empyreans for the past two weeks, with a smattering of my Focal Clear MG (w/Stellia pads) and my Sendy Peacock.  The Utopia gets brought out every now and again, but not recently (too many new toys to play with).  Last night was night #1 with my ZMF Atrium LTD Bubingas.
> 
> As for music, I have a fairly wide gamut of musical tastes, but lately it's been either *Metal Covers* or *Blues Rock*.  When I'm doing critical testing/listening, I have a *playlist on Tidal* that has everything from Rock to Country to Jazz to Classical.  I'm not a huge EDM/House music fan, a bit too old for that, but the Crystal Method pops in from time-to-time.


So you prefer the KR 5U4G to the KR 274B-HP (which is much more expensive)?

I think I'll probably go for the 596 first based on your description.

In the interest of sharing music, here is my playlist that I use in the car, when I use my woo, it's all local FLAC or tidal both via Roon.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Well, let's put them to the test, shall we?









I'll give them each a half hour to warm up.  Any preference as to headphone you want me to use to compare?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

After going back and forth for about an hour, I stand by my original assessment - the KR 274B-HD is a very competent, very clean, very analytical tube with no gravitas.  It simply doesn't have any weight behind it.  The KR 5U4G RK has more heft, bass, and weight, and is otherwise the better tube.  Also, the KR 5U4G RK is about a hundred bucks MORE than the KR-274B-HD (at least on Best300B.com)


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> After going back and forth for about an hour, I stand by my original assessment - the KR 274B-HD is a very competent, very clean, very analytical tube with no gravitas.  It simply doesn't have any weight behind it.  The KR 5U4G RK has more heft, bass, and weight, and is otherwise the better tube.  Also, the KR 5U4G RK is about a hundred bucks MORE than the KR-274B-HD (at least on Best300B.com)


Thanks for all your effort; I guess woo audio is overcharging a lot.

https://wooaudio.com/tubes/kraudio-274b-hp


----------



## ColSaulTigh

mab1376 said:


> Thanks for all your effort; I guess woo audio is overcharging a lot.
> 
> https://wooaudio.com/tubes/kraudio-274b-hp


Oh, yeah, it's WAY overpriced!  Best300B seems to have the best prices on these (but then again, I haven't looked too much).  The Mighty 596 can be found for around $200 on eBay, and I think there's a guy selling a pair of them in the classifieds for $175 ea.  If you don't want to Woo adapter, they're like $15 on ebay.  But the Woo one is much better made and looks incredible.  But it's $150.  Worth it IMO.  That brings the Mighty 596 to $350-$400ish, and now you're in KR 5U4G RK territory....


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> After going back and forth for about an hour, I stand by my original assessment - the KR 274B-HD is a very competent, very clean, very analytical tube with no gravitas.  It simply doesn't have any weight behind it.  The KR 5U4G RK has more heft, bass, and weight, and is otherwise the better tube.  Also, the KR 5U4G RK is about a hundred bucks MORE than the KR-274B-HD (at least on Best300B.com)



Would your assessment be the same for both planar and dynamic headphones?  Now I'm definitely curious to try this tube out


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Would your assessment be the same for both planar and dynamic headphones?  Now I'm definitely curious to try this tube out


Generally, yes.  But tomorrow I'll fire them back up and run some comparisons.


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> Generally, yes.  But tomorrow I'll fire them back up and run some comparisons.



By the way, any idea if best 300b has a return policy?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> By the way, any idea if best 300b has a return policy?


No idea, sorry.  You could always drop them an email and ask.


----------



## Thaddy

My National Union 6SL7's arrived yesterday.  I did get an email back from Mike @ Woo Audio stating that while the tubes are compatible, they aren't necessarily recommended.  I've got them warming up in the amp with some music playing.


----------



## VanHai

Little brother welcomes big brother home.


----------



## mab1376

ColSaulTigh said:


> The Mighty 596 is thicker and meatier, but a bit slower.  Think molasses vs. simple syrup.  Both are bold and capable, but the KR 5U4G RK is just in another league.
> 
> If your budget allows, buy both and compare, then sell the one you don't like.  Or keep them both, like I do, because I have an obsessive collection disorder.






The mighty one has landed.

Let that syrup run thick!


----------



## VanHai

mab1376 said:


> The mighty one has landed.
> 
> Let that syrup run thick!



I think we have the same set of tubes.


----------



## mab1376

VanHai said:


> I think we have the same set of tubes.


Nice, those 6sn7 came stock and are pretty great!


----------



## VanHai

mab1376 said:


> Nice, those 6sn7 came stock and are pretty great!


Indeed, they sound great!.


----------



## jhljhl

6f8g tubes for sale. Also, Raytheon RK60/1641 tubes with adapters.


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> Generally, yes.  But tomorrow I'll fire them back up and run some comparisons.



Any impressions so far on the 5u4g RK when it comes to dynamics and planars?

I tried contacting best300b twice explicity stating my interest in buying the 5u4g (but had some questions), but these guys never check their email supposedly... not a good sign.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Any impressions so far on the 5u4g RK when it comes to dynamics and planars?
> 
> I tried contacting best300b twice explicity stating my interest in buying the 5u4g (but had some questions), but these guys never check their email supposedly... not a good sign.


I'm heading off to bed tonight, but I'll pop it in tomorrow and give it a run with my Focal Clear & Utopia, Sendy Peacock, Meze Empyreans, Meze Elites, and whatever else you want me to check out.


----------



## VanHai (Apr 27, 2022)

Been searching the forums for combination of rectifier and power tube sets to go with a pair RCA 6F8G. Have tried USAF 596 & TS5998, Brimar 5Z4GY CV1863 KB/FE & TS5998, Mullard 5V4 GY & TS5998.

It was surprise that the smallest rectifier Mullard GZ30 &TS5998, just barely bigger than 6SN7 brought out the best synergy of all the combinations that i have tried. Sound stage, separations, vocals, base have opened up. If you have the Mullard GZ30, try it with the 6F8G and TS5998.


----------



## mab1376

VanHai said:


> Been searching the forums for combination of rectifier and power tube sets to go with a pair RCA 6F8G. Have tried USAF 596 & TS5998, Brimar 5Z4GY CV1863 KB/FE & TS5998, Mullard 5V4 GY & TS5998.
> 
> It was surprise that the smallest rectifier Mullard GZ30 &TS5998, just barely bigger than 6SN7 bring out the best synergy of all the combinations that i have tried. Sound stage, separations, vocals, base have opened up. If you have the Mullard GZ30, try it with the 6F8G and TS5998.


I have some Tung Sol 6F8G on the way, and while I have to wait a bit for Chinese adapters to come in, I have the 596, Sophia Mesh 274B, and 5Z4GY to try. Sadly I don't own any GZ30.


----------



## VanHai

mab1376 said:


> I have some Tung Sol 6F8G on the way, and while I have to wait a bit for Chinese adapters to come in, I have the 596, Sophia Mesh 274B, and 5Z4GY to try. Sadly I don't own any GZ30.


They are very hard to find( GZ30), i have 2 pairs. I may spare 1 tube for you, when you needed. Let me know.


----------



## mab1376

I assume rare things don't come cheap, and after the 596 and 6F8G purchases, I should hold off spending for a little bit, appreciate the offer! If curiosity eats me up in the future I'll shoot you a PM (assuming it isn't gone!)


----------



## u2u2

VanHai said:


> They are very hard to find( GZ30), i have 2 pairs. I may spare 1 tube for you, when you needed. Let me know.


Good grief... a few short years ago these were dirt cheap and I grabbed a few from Langrex. Apparently the secret got out prior to these recent posts as they are now almost sold out and the price, relatively speaking, has gone over the moon. Not good as eye candy goes but they sound just fine on a wide range of tube combinations.


----------



## VanHai

u2u2 said:


> Good grief... a few short years ago these were dirt cheap and I grabbed a few from Langrex. Apparently the secret got out prior to these recent posts as they are now almost sold out and the price, relatively speaking, has gone over the moon. Not good as eye candy goes but they sound just fine on a wide range of tube combinations.


You are right, i was lucky got 2 pairs at a decent price. Right now a seller from Vietnam is demanded for an enormous amount of $355.00 for a pair and that is ridiculous price.


----------



## mab1376

Taking the 6F8Gs out for a spin today!


----------



## Badas

mab1376 said:


> Taking the 6F8Gs out for a spin today!


You would get a hum from that setup. Interfering wires.


----------



## VanHai

Badas said:


> You would get a hum from that setup. Interfering wires.


I did have exactly the same setup on my WA22 2nd generation and there was no hum or wires interfering at all.


----------



## mab1376

Badas said:


> You would get a hum from that setup. Interfering wires.


If there's any interference, the noise is below the audible range.


----------



## bpcans

For me, finding the right tube combination that was not only fun to listen to, but also dead silent with no hum when there was music playing or not playing, was critical because I’m really persnickety about hearing anything but the music through my headphones. Tung Sol 5998 power tubes. Sylvania brown base 6SN7 drivers from the year I was born in 1956. USAF 596 rectifier tube. All of these tubes were NOS/NIB when I bought them.


----------



## jbua5150

Just received some TungSol 6SN7GT “Mouse Ears”. 
Quite a nice open sound.  Very wide and deep soundstage.


----------



## Badas

mab1376 said:


> If there's any interference, the noise is below the audible range.


Each to their own. I've done that setup before. The hum was unbearable. 
You can't have 3 lots of wire.


----------



## m8o

Thought I'd test out my fairly new Galaxy Z Fold 3 phablet's night scene mode with the Woo & Raspberry Pi 4 + Pi2AES HAT providing the only light.


----------



## duranxv (May 6, 2022)

Well - best300b hasn't responded to three of my emails about the KR 5U4G RK edition rectifier tube.  Anyone have a contact there?

If not, I'm definitely taking a risk buying from these guys


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Well - best300b hasn't responded to three of my emails about the KR 5U4G RK edition rectifier tube.  Anyone have a contact there?
> 
> If not, I'm definitely taking a risk buying from these guys


I ordered from them before, and I just put in an order for my 2nd KR-5U4G-RK's and 2 KR-300B-RK's.  I got a confirmation email, but nothing since then.  They're not particularly speedy, and I'm guessing the situation in Ukraine is causing some delays.   Be patient - they'll come through.


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> I ordered from them before, and I just put in an order for my 2nd KR-5U4G-RK's and 2 KR-300B-RK's.  I got a confirmation email, but nothing since then.  They're not particularly speedy, and I'm guessing the situation in Ukraine is causing some delays.   Be patient - they'll come through.



Can you let me know when you get your tubes from them?  Just to make sure they're still in business, lol


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Can you let me know when you get your tubes from them?  Just to make sure they're still in business, lol


Sure, I'll keep you posted.  Everything coming from Europe has been taking forever.  It took 30 days for my Meze Elite Dark Mystery headphones to come from Germany, and I'm still waiting on some fusues I ordered almost 2 months ago....


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Quick  update from Lampizat0r (Best300B.com) - his son (the one who actually owns/runs the site is "very sick" and he's struggling to keep orders flowing.  Since his son has all the access to the accounts, he's asking that you get in touch with him directly via FB messenger.  I did yesterday and I've gotten notification that my order is being processed for shipment.

Search "Lampizat0r" on Facebook and like his page, then send him a message.  Very nice man just going through some struggles right now.  I've heard from others that he's a stand-up guy and will make things right.  I think (but cannot confirm) that this is the same family that created/builds the Feliks line of amplifiers as well as the Lampizator DACs and other accessories.


----------



## lumdicks

Premier league of tubes on my WA22 tonight, GEC U52 and 6AS7, with a pair of Mullard ECC32 as driver.

Best in class smoothness and amazing mid.


----------



## jbua5150 (May 11, 2022)

Playing around with rectifiers today….
There does seem to be a bit of noise when Tung-Sol BGRP 6C8G are used with USAF-596,
BUT it’s only at above 12 o’clock on the volume knob,  well below audible when music is playing.
So far this CV593 has been the quietest with this tube combo. 
More to roll.  I feel like I might need to break out Sophia. I miss her fat bass. 
.


----------



## CAJames

lumdicks said:


> Premier league of tubes on my WA22 tonight, GEC U52 and 6AS7, with a pair of Mullard ECC32 as driver.
> 
> Best in class smoothness and amazing mid.



An amp of Hope and Glory!


----------



## Badas

I've been quiet for a very long time. Just slaying music. Very happy with my Woo WA22.

For the first time in years I'm making changes. 
I decided to separate HP rig and make a dedicated stand alone HP listening station.
Work in progress. Some initial pics. 








Not entirely finished.
I'm waiting for this to arrive. Paid for.



I'm also not sure if I will keep the Yggy. I've been comparing to the Cambridge Audio CXN Dac (which is floating my boat).



Lastly. I retired the V281. Actually moved to movie watching. 
I've had my hands full setting up movie stuff as well.






I'm playing around to get it all setup for a new home we are getting built.
In the country, in piece and quiet. Look of the home will be country/industrial. 
So, I'm setting up gear to suit.


----------



## bpcans

How long do you guys let your WA22s warmup before you begin listening to music? I’m most often impatient and let it warm for five minutes minimum before I sit down to start, but the sound gets better as the tubes warm up over a couple of hours. I try not to let my amplifier stay on for more than 6 hours at a time because I don’t want to stress the tubes.


----------



## VanHai

bpcans said:


> How long do you guys let your WA22s warmup before you begin listening to music? I’m most often impatient and let it warm for five minutes minimum before I sit down to start, but the sound gets better as the tubes warm up over a couple of hours. I try not to let my amplifier stay on for more than 6 hours at a time because I don’t want to stress the tubes.


I think 5 minutes is adequate to warmup , i do exactly the same. My listening  session is around 2 -3 hours everyday and i switch between 4 tube amps, so i never have to worry about stressing the tubes out.


----------



## bpcans

VanHai said:


> I think 5 minutes is adequate to warmup , i do exactly the same. My listening  session is around 2 -3 hours everyday and i switch between 4 tube amps, so i never have to worry about stressing the tubes out.


@VanHai, which other tube amplifiers do you have and use regularly? My backup hp amp is a Woo WA6 and the SS amplifier section of my Chord Hugo TT2.


----------



## VanHai

bpcans said:


> @VanHai, which other tube amplifiers do you have and use regularly? My backup hp amp is a Woo WA6 and the SS amplifier section of my Chord Hugo TT2.


Beside the WA22, i also have WA6-SE, DNA Sonett 2 , Bottlehead Crack w S/P and SS GS-X mini amps.


----------



## bpcans

VanHai said:


> Beside the WA22, i also have WA6-SE, DNA Sonett 2 , Bottlehead Crack w S/P and SS GS-X mini amps.


Like one of these? http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-2-headphone-amplifier.html. The Bottle Head Crack never appealed to me because I thought its sound was kinda thin compared to the Woo WA6. But the GS-X mini is very nice.


----------



## Badas

bpcans said:


> How long do you guys let your WA22s warmup before you begin listening to music? I’m most often impatient and let it warm for five minutes minimum before I sit down to start, but the sound gets better as the tubes warm up over a couple of hours. I try not to let my amplifier stay on for more than 6 hours at a time because I don’t want to stress the tubes.


Yes. About 5 minutes for me. Not long.
I don't stress about how long. I ran a full work day+ yesterday. So amp was on 11 hours.
I like my 10+ hour music session and do it regularly.
My tubes haven't been replaced since 2014 and functioning beautifully.


----------



## VanHai

bpcans said:


> Like one of these? http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA-Sonett-2-headphone-amplifier.html. The Bottle Head Crack never appealed to me because I thought its sound was kinda thin compared to the Woo WA6. But the GS-X mini is very nice.


Yes, that is DNA Sonett 2. The Bottlehead was my first real tube amp that i have, it is OTL and very good with ZMF headphones.


----------



## 9bphillips

Is anyone familiar with kr 5u43 ST? What is the difference in this and kr5u4g rk limited series?


----------



## VanHai

Thaddy said:


> My National Union 6SL7's arrived yesterday.  I did get an email back from Mike @ Woo Audio stating that while the tubes are compatible, they aren't necessarily recommended.  I've got them warming up in the amp with some music playing.


How is your impression on 6sl7's tubes?. Are they working fine with the WA22?. Please let me know, i have a pair of TS 6sl7 coming next week, thanks.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Just a quick follow-up on my best300B order - got my shipping notification today!  I also got a nice email from Łukasz Fikus (Lampizat0r), who confirmed that his son (and owner of Best300B.com) is very sick and not really able to process orders right now.  Others have said, and I believe, that these are very nice people, who happen to be under a lot of personal stress right now.

FYI


----------



## jbua5150

I noticed on the Woo Audio WA22 "tube compatibility chart"  6SU7 is listed as a driver tube.  Does anyone have any experience with them in the WA22?


----------



## barbz127

Out of curiosity is anyone using a LCD5 with the WA22? 

In the market for something that will place nicely with ZMF as well as the LCD5.

Thankyou


----------



## 9bphillips

barbz127 said:


> Out of curiosity is anyone using a LCD5 with the WA22?
> 
> In the market for something that will place nicely with ZMF as well as the LCD5.
> 
> Thankyou


I dont know about lcd 5 but my lcd x and Verite Closed sounds excellent with the wa22!


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> Just a quick follow-up on my best300B order - got my shipping notification today!  I also got a nice email from Łukasz Fikus (Lampizat0r), who confirmed that his son (and owner of Best300B.com) is very sick and not really able to process orders right now.  Others have said, and I believe, that these are very nice people, who happen to be under a lot of personal stress right now.
> 
> FYI



Awesome. Appreciate the update!


----------



## VanHai (May 17, 2022)

Beautiful sound, smoothing, sweet vocal and mid, wild soundstage, treble is clear and tight. Rectifier Mullard 5V4G, driver RCA 6SNGT VT-231 and power TS5998.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> Awesome. Appreciate the update!


Welp, that didn't last long....I got a cancellation order today.  No email explaining why, nothing.

Now I'm on the hunt for another distributor...


----------



## Thaddy

VanHai said:


> How is your impression on 6sl7's tubes?. Are they working fine with the WA22?. Please let me know, i have a pair of TS 6sl7 coming next week, thanks.


Unfortunately I haven't had much time listening with them.  One of the pins may be loose, as when the amp heats up I get noise.  It goes a way with a slight wiggle, but it's persistent.  I may end up getting another pair of 6SL7's, perhaps Tung Sol.  However, I didn't notice any excessive heat coming from the amp.


----------



## VanHai

Thaddy said:


> Unfortunately I haven't had much time listening with them.  One of the pins may be loose, as when the amp heats up I get noise.  It goes a way with a slight wiggle, but it's persistent.  I may end up getting another pair of 6SL7's, perhaps Tung Sol.  However, I didn't notice any excessive heat coming from the amp.


I received my pair and tried them out for about 1 hour. They have higher gain than my 6sn7's, so they are good for high impedance headphones. They also bring out more aggressive in the mid and vocal and like you said i did not feel any excessive heat at all.


----------



## 9bphillips

I bought my first rectifier the emission labs 5u4g mesh for my wa22 but would like suggestions on my next step. I have been told power tubes would be next. Any suggestions on power tubes? I don't mind spending some cash to replace my stock tubes.  I just need suggestions! Thx in advance!


----------



## bpcans

@9bphillips, I use Tung Sol 5998 power tubes in my WA22. They were NIB/NOS when I bought them a couple years ago. Here’s an eBay listing to give you an idea of what they can cost. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1253265077...ul91bNkTOO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY. You definitely need to carefully shop around and ask a lot of questions first before you buy anything.


----------



## 9bphillips

Thx for the info! I will check them out


----------



## Thaddy

9bphillips said:


> Thx for the info! I will check them out


Note that there are two different types of Tung-Sol 5998's.  The bottom getter version is supposedly the same as the WE 421A.  The top getter version is a bit less sought after.  I have pairs of both and can't tell the difference, other than my bottom getter's have green text and the top getter's have white text.  Prices can get out of hand on eBay, but some digging can turn up reputable sellers that don't charge an arm and a leg.  I very recently got two new pairs, both NOS.  The top getter's were $200 and the bottom getters were $300.


----------



## 9bphillips

Thaddy said:


> Note that there are two different types of Tung-Sol 5998's.  The bottom getter version is supposedly the same as the WE 421A.  The top getter version is a bit less sought after.  I have pairs of both and can't tell the difference, other than my bottom getter's have green text and the top getter's have white text.  Prices can get out of hand on eBay, but some digging can turn up reputable sellers that don't charge an arm and a leg.  I very recently got two new pairs, both NOS.  The top getter's were $200 and the bottom getters were $300.


That is $200 and $300 per tube?


----------



## Thaddy (May 21, 2022)

Nope, per matched pair 

Keep in mind there are a lot of great tubes out there that aren't as expensive.  Some of my favorite tubes are late 40's/early 50's RCA 6AS7G's that cost $40 a pair.


----------



## 9bphillips

Thaddy said:


> Nope, per matched pair
> 
> Keep in mind there are a lot of great tubes out there that aren't as expensive.  Some of my favorite tubes are late 40's/early 50's RCA 6AS7G's that cost $40 a pair.


That price is cheap compared to woo audio website. They had them for like $900 a pair


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> That price is cheap compared to woo audio website. They had them for like $900 a pair


Woo's site is a bit extreme for tubes.  But they make the best adapters I've found (although I believe there are a few makers on this forum who also make some nice ones).  Buy yeah, their tubes are a bit pricy.


----------



## Thaddy

ColSaulTigh said:


> Woo's site is a bit extreme for tubes.  But they make the best adapters I've found (although I believe there are a few makers on this forum who also make some nice ones).  Buy yeah, their tubes are a bit pricy.


If you call and talk to Mike he'll happily offer up an explanation.  I'm not sure of the quantities they typically purchase, but Mike will make it clear that the tubes they purchase and test are for audio purposes only.  They want to ensure good sound and a quiet background.  He's said they've had to reject entire shipments of tubes before.  Now, I'm not saying that justifies their high prices, but hey, they're in business to make money.  And they're not primarily a tube supplier.  I've purchased tubes from them before and it's nice not having to worry if the tubes will be good or not.

You're right regarding the adapters though, they are hands down the best.  Speaking of which, I need to order my adapter and USAF 596


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Thaddy said:


> If you call and talk to Mike he'll happily offer up an explanation.  I'm not sure of the quantities they typically purchase, but Mike will make it clear that the tubes they purchase and test are for audio purposes only.  They want to ensure good sound and a quiet background.  He's said they've had to reject entire shipments of tubes before.  Now, I'm not saying that justifies their high prices, but hey, they're in business to make money.  And they're not primarily a tube supplier.  I've purchased tubes from them before and it's nice not having to worry if the tubes will be good or not.
> 
> You're right regarding the adapters though, they are hands down the best.  Speaking of which, I need to order my adapter and USAF 596


No no, I get it - I bought all of my 13EM7's as well as my first 596 (and adapters) from them.  But some of their stuff is just nuts.  For example:

https://wooaudio.com/tubes/takatsuki-ta300b-pair-ltr7k - The Takatuski's are like $1,600 all day long on every reputable web seller, and those are all brand-new tubes with 5-year warranty.  I could understand a 20% markup, but almost 40% over is a bit much.

For comparison, their deal on 596's (with adapter) is actually a bargain, considering these have been going for $225-250 by themselves on eBay.

To each their own.


----------



## jonathan c

ColSaulTigh said:


> For comparison, their deal on 596's (with adapter) is actually a bargain, considering these have been going for $225-250 by themselves on eBay.


Agreed! I tried the rest, went for the best….Woo adapters are 👍👍….modeled by ‘Sixilla’ on my desk runway….


----------



## ColSaulTigh

jonathan c said:


> Agreed! I tried the rest, went for the best….Woo adapters are 👍👍….modeled by ‘Sixilla’ on my desk runway….



Obligatory one-upsmanship photo.  But their adapters are the only ones I buy.  Just got a set of 7N7's that came with other adapters.  They felt like junk, so ordered them from Woo.  Built like a tank, work like a charm!


----------



## VanHai

New and old adapters.


----------



## 9bphillips

I am thinking my next purchase will be ts5998 or we421a. I have been told some say these are basically the same tube. If anyone has any experience with these I would love to have some insight on these before purchasing. Which should I go with and why? Also I have seen a lot of talk about adapters. I'm assuming adapters are for tubes that don't match up with the WA22 pin wise so it gives more options for tubes? Are there other benefits to that or is it the same with tubes that do match up with no adapters?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> I am thinking my next purchase will be ts5998 or we421a. I have been told some say these are basically the same tube. If anyone has any experience with these I would love to have some insight on these before purchasing. Which should I go with and why? Also I have seen a lot of talk about adapters. I'm assuming adapters are for tubes that don't match up with the WA22 pin wise so it gives more options for tubes? Are there other benefits to that or is it the same with tubes that do match up with no adapters?


Adapters should only be used for *COMPATIBLE* tubes that require a different pin alignment.  You can't throw any-old 8-pin tube in, it's gotta be compatible.  Woo publishes a partial list on their website *HERE*.


----------



## Thaddy

9bphillips said:


> I am thinking my next purchase will be ts5998 or we421a. I have been told some say these are basically the same tube. If anyone has any experience with these I would love to have some insight on these before purchasing. Which should I go with and why? Also I have seen a lot of talk about adapters. I'm assuming adapters are for tubes that don't match up with the WA22 pin wise so it gives more options for tubes? Are there other benefits to that or is it the same with tubes that do match up with no adapters?


I have never heard the WE 421A, but I own bottom and top getter 5998's.  From what my supplier has said, and was staring at these two tubes when he said this, "_the bottom getter 5998 and the WE 421A have the same construction and are the same tube._"  You'll probably have a MUCH easier time finding a pair of 5998's.


----------



## 9bphillips

ColSaulTigh said:


> Adapters should only be used for *COMPATIBLE* tubes that require a different pin alignment.  You can't throw any-old 8-pin tube in, it's gotta be compatible.  Woo publishes a partial list on their website *HERE*.


That's what I figured but wasn't sure.


----------



## 9bphillips

Thaddy said:


> I have never heard the WE 421A, but I own bottom and top getter 5998's.  From what my supplier has said, and was staring at these two tubes when he said this, "_the bottom getter 5998 and the WE 421A have the same construction and are the same tube._"  You'll probably have a MUCH easier time finding a pair of 5998's.


Western electric 421a was suggested to me along with the ts5998. I'm going to do a little research on them. You are right that the ts5998 is easier to get. At least thats what I have gathered from looking online.


----------



## mab1376

9bphillips said:


> Western electric 421a was suggested to me along with the ts5998. I'm going to do a little research on them. You are right that the ts5998 is easier to get. At least thats what I have gathered from looking online.


tube depot says it's "This is the world's best 6AS7G." which is a compatible tube, but best to verify with woo directly.

5998 and 7326 can output a bit more power and a bit better with orthos if that's your goal. otherwise, some cheap RCA 6as7g will sound great IMO and save you a bunch.


----------



## UntilThen

Thaddy said:


> You're right regarding the adapters though, they are hands down the best. Speaking of which, I need to order my adapter and USAF 596



Absolutely right !!! Jack gets 5 stars from me. Or 6 stars out of 5?

The 596 rectifier and adapter from Woo Audio came a month ago. My own custom amp uses Yamamoto sockets but these Teflon adapters from Woo are just as good if not better. Those who use this adapter will know that it can be rotated slightly to get the perfect front facing angle and the 597 USAF tube is brand spanking new.


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> Agreed! I tried the rest, went for the best….Woo adapters are 👍👍….modeled by ‘Sixilla’ on my desk runway….



Sounds like a John West tuna ad ? 😉


----------



## drjerryyan

Badas said:


> *My few frustrations.*
> 
> Some power tubes don't play nice in the WA22. They produce a background noise when mixed with the wrong type of driver. Occasionally the rectifier can cause issue as well. Basically synergy. WA22 is unforgiving with a number of power tubes.
> 
> ...



Thank you SO MUCH for your post... 
I wished I read this before I tried to get Sylvania 6080 and RCA 6AS7 working... it was IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of the hum...
Can you please help me understand how and why do we run 6BL7 in pairs?


----------



## UntilThen (May 26, 2022)

drjerryyan said:


> Thank you SO MUCH for your post...
> I wished I read this before I tried to get Sylvania 6080 and RCA 6AS7 working... it was IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of the hum...
> Can you please help me understand how and why do we run 6BL7 in pairs?



Depends on the tube and not the type. I had a pair of RCA 6as7g that is quieter and another pair that is noisy, so it’s possibly the pin flows. Some put hot irons through the pins and that shut the tube up alright. 

I’ve run dual 6bx7gt on each of the power slots. It’s a good tone but no better than 5998. Dual 6bx7gt is kind of ugly so I stopped being Frankenstein. Instead I got Glenn to build OTL that uses six 6bx7gt.

Dual 6bx7gt is better than single because it has more power and punch than single 6bx7gt…. at least to my ears.

Now this where you want to be careful. Lots of noisy 6BL7 / 6bx7 in the market.

Since I sold off the Glenn OTL amp some time ago, I still have a dozen 6bx7gt which I light up the Christmas tree every year.

What a long story. Now I can go back to sleep.


----------



## 9bphillips

I have a eml 5u4g mesh plate rectifier in my WA22.  I am planning on  going with ts 5998 or we421a next. I was planning on pairing the mullard ecc35 6sl7 with them but I have read it may be too bright. Does anyone have any suggestions on some other driver tubes to pair with the eml 5u4g and ts5998 and or we421a? I don't mind spending some $ if I need too. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thx!


----------



## Thaddy

9bphillips said:


> I have a eml 5u4g mesh plate rectifier in my WA22.  I am planning on  going with ts 5998 or we421a next. I was planning on pairing the mullard ecc35 6sl7 with them but I have read it may be too bright. Does anyone have any suggestions on some other driver tubes to pair with the eml 5u4g and ts5998 and or we421a? I don't mind spending some $ if I need too. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thx!


Depending on your source and headphones, the 5998/6SL7 combo may provide too much gain.  I would definitely start with the 5998's though.  For driver tubes I really like my late 1940's RCA Gray Glass 6SN7's and Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7's.

6SL7's will work in the WA22 but they are not recommended by Woo Audio.  I have a pair of Tung-Sol Black Glass 6SL7's coming tomorrow, and even though my DAC3 has it's gain set to -20dB I'll probably take out my 5998's and use some Chatham 6AS7G's with them.


----------



## Badas (May 26, 2022)

drjerryyan said:


> Thank you SO MUCH for your post...
> I wished I read this before I tried to get Sylvania 6080 and RCA 6AS7 working... it was IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of the hum...
> Can you please help me understand how and why do we run 6BL7 in pairs?



6BL7
You don't need to run in pairs. I actually found they were powerful enough by themselves.
I experimented running double in each socket. Ultimately found they were ugly and decided to go back to standard 6080. I have strange taste and actually like stock standard cheap RCA 6080 tubes as power tubes. I don't know why.
I have tried everything and went back to the one everyone else doesn't really like.


----------



## Badas

HiFiGuy528 said:


> some beautiful pics! WA22 is one of my favorite amps. Love its size and performance.


I'm never getting rid of mine. Powers most HP's beautifully.


----------



## 9bphillips

Thaddy said:


> Depending on your source and headphones, the 5998/6SL7 combo may provide too much gain.  I would definitely start with the 5998's though.  For driver tubes I really like my late 1940's RCA Gray Glass 6SN7's and Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7's.
> 
> 6SL7's will work in the WA22 but they are not recommended by Woo Audio.  I have a pair of Tung-Sol Black Glass 6SL7's coming tomorrow, and even though my DAC3 has it's gain set to -20dB I'll probably take out my 5998's and use some Chatham 6AS7G's with them.


I'm using my dx300 as source and dac right now with lcd x and Verite Closed. I will check out some other options if it will be too much gain.


----------



## Roasty

9bphillips said:


> I'm using my dx300 as source and dac right now with lcd x and Verite Closed. I will check out some other options if it will be too much gain.



reducing gain is easy at the source or Roon dsp/headroom. if u intend to run susvara or TC with WA22, the ECC35 are the way to go. they sounded great with the VO/VC as well.


----------



## 9bphillips

Roasty said:


> reducing gain is easy at the source or Roon dsp/headroom. if u intend to run susvara or TC with WA22, the ECC35 are the way to go. they sounded great with the VO/VC as well.


Ok that is really assuring. One day I would love to have either the Susvara or TC but it won't be anytime soon because I have many other things I need too like a dac. I have been using my dx300 as source/dac and it sounds great but I don't have anything to compare it too because I have never owned a desktop dac. I am seriously debating on selling my Soloist GT to fund a dac. Maybe Holo spring 3 kte or lampizator amber 4 dac. You are right that I could use my dx300 to control the gain with the ecc35. That would probably solve the issue if there is too much gain. I have just heard south about these tubes from you an others that it seems to be the best option for most. I had read that this combo can be a little on the bright side. I don't want it too bright. I have heard of some ppl saying that certain tube combinations can be on the solid state sounding side. I definitely wouldn't want that if that is what they meant by bright. I want it to still sound like tubes. Thx for the advice. It is greatly appreciated because I am lost without you guys! 😆


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Thaddy said:


> Depending on your source and headphones, the 5998/6SL7 combo may provide too much gain.  I would definitely start with the 5998's though.  For driver tubes I really like my late 1940's RCA Gray Glass 6SN7's and Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7's.
> 
> 6SL7's will work in the WA22 but they are not recommended by Woo Audio.  I have a pair of Tung-Sol Black Glass 6SL7's coming tomorrow, and even though my DAC3 has it's gain set to -20dB I'll probably take out my 5998's and use some Chatham 6AS7G's with them.


I'm currently (pun!) running the grey glass RCA's in my WA5 - I like 'em, but can't say they're spectacular.  They are VERY resolving though.  My Tung Sol 6F8G's are on the way, Woo adapters already in-hand (gorgeous, btw!).

I had no idea 6SN7's would work in the WA22 - do they require adapters?


----------



## Roasty

ColSaulTigh said:


> I had no idea 6SN7's would work in the WA22 - do they require adapters?



plug and play!


----------



## drjerryyan

Badas said:


> 6BL7
> You don't need to run in pairs. I actually found they were powerful enough by themselves.
> I experimented running double in each socket. Ultimately found they were ugly and decided to go back to standard 6080. I have strange taste and actually like stock standard cheap RCA 6080 tubes as power tubes. I don't know why.
> I have tried everything and went back to the one everyone else doesn't really like.


why do you ned adapters for the standard 6080s and the 5u4g?


----------



## Roasty

drjerryyan said:


> why do you ned adapters for the standard 6080s and the 5u4g?



I think those are socket savers.


----------



## Badas

Roasty said:


> I think those are socket savers.





drjerryyan said:


> why do you ned adapters for the standard 6080s and the 5u4g?


Correct. Socket savers. Not adapters.


----------



## CAJames

Badas said:


> 6BL7
> You don't need to run in pairs. I actually found they were powerful enough by themselves.
> I experimented running double in each socket. Ultimately found they were ugly and decided to go back to standard 6080. I have strange taste and actually like stock standard cheap RCA 6080 tubes as power tubes. I don't know why.
> I have tried everything and went back to the one everyone else doesn't really like.



I always had hum with a single 6B[L|X]7 regardless of rectifier or input tubes, but plenty of power. Using a pair with adapters was fine, although either way it was a lot more gain than other power options.


----------



## Badas

CAJames said:


> I always had hum with a single 6B[L|X]7 regardless of rectifier or input tubes, but plenty of power. Using a pair with adapters was fine, although either way it was a lot more gain than other power options.


What input are you using? RCA or XLR.
I had hum issues with RCA. Switched to XLR and hum went away.


----------



## Thaddy

ColSaulTigh said:


> I'm currently (pun!) running the grey glass RCA's in my WA5 - I like 'em, but can't say they're spectacular.  They are VERY resolving though.  My Tung Sol 6F8G's are on the way, Woo adapters already in-hand (gorgeous, btw!).
> 
> I had no idea 6SN7's would work in the WA22 - do they require adapters?


That's exactly why I like them   They pair very well with all of the older power and rectifiers I have from the late 40's and early 50's.  Tonight and tomorrow I'm going to try out the Tung-Sol 5998/RCA Gray Glass 6SN7/Sophia Princess Mesh Plate 274B combo.


----------



## CAJames

Badas said:


> What input are you using? RCA or XLR.
> I had hum issues with RCA. Switched to XLR and hum went away.


XLR, but the hum was there with nothing connected.


----------



## Badas

CAJames said:


> XLR, but the hum was there with nothing connected.


Okay.
So that is either power supply or tubes. Most likely tubes.


----------



## CAJames

And the same tubes were quiet in pairs so go figure.


----------



## Badas

CAJames said:


> And the same tubes were quiet in pairs so go figure.


Something going on in the circuit. A synergy issue. 
I've had that from time to time. 
My Meze 99's don't go well with the WA22. However are fine with the SPL Phonitor xe. Synergy.


----------



## UntilThen

HiFiGuy528 said:


> some beautiful pics! WA22 is one of my favorite amps. Love its size and performance.



HeadFiers progressed too quickly. If it’s not the greatest and the latest then they are not having their best. 

I love the WA22 as well despite having 3 other tube amps. Tonality wise, it’s one of the sweetest sound with He1000se.


----------



## 9bphillips

Just ordered the ecc35/6sl7gt and we421a to go with my eml5u4g for my WA22! Super excited. Now all stock tubes are replaced. Now  looking forward to the wkend when both pairs should be in!


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> Just ordered the ecc35/6sl7gt and we421a to go with my eml5u4g for my WA22! Super excited. Now all stock tubes are replaced. Now looking forward to the wkend when both pairs should be in!



Good tubes are priceless. In a few years time you won’t even find NOS ones even if you are willing to pay.

I would have preferred the GEC U52 in place of the EML 5u4g but hey there are no ugly ducklings here. Just enjoy the music and if the music is still not good enough after those tubes go it, then you need new ears.


----------



## 9bphillips

UntilThen said:


> Good tubes are priceless. In a few years time you won’t even find NOS ones even if you are willing to pay.
> 
> I would have preferred the GEC U52 in place of the EML 5u4g but hey there are no ugly ducklings here. Just enjoy the music and if the music is still not good enough after those tubes go it, then you need new ears.


I am thinking of getting a kraudio5u4g as another option too. The kr5u4g was the rectifier I wanted but it just didn't work out at the time so I went with the eml5u4g. I am just ready to hear the difference with all the stock tubes out. The ecc35 6sl7gt kinda threw me for a loop because I fidnt see it in the wa22 compatibility chart but I have been told by different ppl on here that it will work.


----------



## Roasty

9bphillips said:


> The ecc35 6sl7gt kinda threw me for a loop because I fidnt see it in the wa22 compatibility chart



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml

it is there. 2nd from the bottom, just above vt231 on the WA22 driver section.


----------



## bpcans

Roasty said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml
> 
> it is there. 2nd from the bottom, just above vt231 on the WA22 driver section.


@Roasty, what is the best tube combination to use with a Takatsuki 274b in a WA22?


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> I am thinking of getting a kraudio5u4g as another option too. The kr5u4g was the rectifier I wanted but it just didn't work out at the time so I went with the eml5u4g. I am just ready to hear the difference with all the stock tubes out. The ecc35 6sl7gt kinda threw me for a loop because I fidnt see it in the wa22 compatibility chart but I have been told by different ppl on here that it will work.



Where rectifiers are concerned, the 596 from Woo Audio is another option. It sounds great compared to other nos rectifiers I have tried in WA22.

Another warmer rectifier option is Cossor 53ku. 

Ecc35 and ECC33 will work very well in WA22. The former has more gain while the ECC33 is the 6sn7 equivalent.

As for power tubes, even though I’ve tried GEC 6as7g, I still prefer the 5998 / 421a variety because it’s more dynamic and lively.

One other power tube that is getting harder and harder to find is the Cetron 7236. A pair of Bendix 6080wb will satisfy you with the nice bass weight. I have these tubes and variety is the spice of life.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> I am thinking of getting a kraudio5u4g as another option too. The kr5u4g was the rectifier I wanted but it just didn't work out at the time so I went with the eml5u4g. I am just ready to hear the difference with all the stock tubes out. The ecc35 6sl7gt kinda threw me for a loop because I fidnt see it in the wa22 compatibility chart but I have been told by different ppl on here that it will work.


I can't speak to the KR 5U4G, but the KR 274B-HD I thought was a touch weak and very clean.  Lacking bass impact.  My $.02 worth.


----------



## Roasty

bpcans said:


> @Roasty, what is the best tube combination to use with a Takatsuki 274b in a WA22?





UntilThen said:


> I still prefer the 5998 / 421a variety because it’s more dynamic and lively.



@bpcans good choice on the Tak274b. sorts out one variable in the game; i've tried quite a few rectifiers and keep going back to the Tak. it was my favourite rec on the WA22, and quite a few WA33 users also use it as their main rec. it is not as punchy or as immediate as, say, the KR274b, not as airy/clear as the EML 5u4G, not as full sounding as the GEC u52, but it gives a very balanced and natural sound to the music; nothing is exaggerated and everything seems "in place" with the Tak. As i "mature", i've gone from wanting the most detailed most fast sound most neutral to a more relaxed, laid back and natural flowing sound and the Tak does it for me.

as for the tube combi, i agree with UntilThen.. for the WA22, just source a set of TS5998/WE421A and call it a day. with the WA22, i felt changing the power tubes made more of a difference than the drivers (apart from the ECC35). If you have the available cash, i'd say, source one pair of each 5998 and WE421A and keep for spares. between the two, dont know if it is a placebo ie knowing it is from WE, but i seemed to prefer the 421A.

as for drivers, depending on what headphones you intend to use them with.
if it is for Susvara, TC or any other demanding or low sensitivity hp, then it is a no-brainer. ECC35 for me. ECC35 + WE421A and you will have more than enough dynamics, low end, and wont ever run out of volume knob. as i mentioned previously, u can also run this combo on sensitive cans but with reduced gain at the source. I did run this combo with the Utopia but it may seem a bit too much in that i felt the mids and highs were pushed more forward than i wanted with the Utopia.

for other headphones, as a bang for buck cheap easily available and really good sounding set of drivers, i like to recommend the TS 6SN7GTB tall boys. these sounded the most "balanced" to me, when compared with the Melz 1578 (rolled off, thick), RCA VT231 (somewhat thick, but strong bass), Ken Rad VT231 (overall nice tubes, but went through 3 pairs as two were noisy..), and 6SN7GT "bad boys" (i think these are overhyped and cost more than they should).


----------



## Thaddy

There are some really good recommendations in here, but I'll third @UntilThen and say just get some 5998's, maybe two pairs, and call it a day.  Tomorrow I'm planning on listening to my top getter 5998's with some Tung-Sol black glass 6SL7's, paired with an RCA smooth plate dual bottom getter 5R4GY.


----------



## 9bphillips

Roasty said:


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DdsZyTx3CJv9_cG9kVdCGZap-AldiTsvuY4Ms1K_p3k/pubhtml
> 
> it is there. 2nd from the bottom, just above vt231 on the WA22 driver section.


This was the one I had. It has ecc32 on it but not ecc35. I rely on you and ColSaul Tigh for my knowledge. Lol. Both of you have been a tremendous help to me with the recommendations and teaching me what is what. Btw the ones I bought were ecc35 6sl7 gt. Does that make a difference?


----------



## 9bphillips

ColSaulTigh said:


> I can't speak to the KR 5U4G, but the KR 274B-HD I thought was a touch weak and very clean.  Lacking bass impact.  My $.02 worth.


I thought the kr5u4g was one of your favorite rectifiers?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

There's a difference between the KR 5u4g Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition and the KR-Audio 274B-HD.  They are night-and-day different.


----------



## ColSaulTigh




----------



## Roasty

9bphillips said:


> This was the one I had. It has ecc32 on it but not ecc35. I rely on you and ColSaul Tigh for my knowledge. Lol. Both of you have been a tremendous help to me with the recommendations and teaching me what is what. Btw the ones I bought were ecc35 6sl7 gt. Does that make a difference?



you're good to go. no worries.


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> This was the one I had. It has ecc32 on it but not ecc35. I rely on you and ColSaul Tigh for my knowledge. Lol. Both of you have been a tremendous help to me with the recommendations and teaching me what is what. Btw the ones I bought were ecc35 6sl7 gt. Does that make a difference?



Hmm that chart did not include ecc35/6sl7 indeed but obviously there are owners here that have used it and love the ecc35 in wa22.

Just for the sake of clarity, ECC33, ECC35 and ECC32 are not the same tube type.

Perhaps Woo Audio can confirm whether ECC35 is endorsed by them to be used in WA22.

Quite a few custom amps that I have accept all 3.

ECC33 - 6SN7 equivalent
ECC35 - 6SL7 equivalent (6SL7 has a higher gain compared to 6SN7. 70 mu compared to 20 mu)
ECC32 is not exactly a drop for 6SN7 but is closer to it.

All 3 tube types are outrageously expensive now.

As for 5998 / 421a, other tube amp owners are also chasing them like blood diamonds.

WA22 owners are contending with La Figaro 339, Felik Audio Elise and Euforia, Bottlehead Crack for 5998.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Hmm that chart did not include ecc35/6sl7 indeed but obviously there are owners here that have used it and love the ecc35 in wa22.
> 
> Just for the sake of clarity, ECC33, ECC35 and ECC32 are not the same tube type.
> 
> ...


…and with WA2…


----------



## Roasty

the link I posted was from the current WA22 page. in any case, the ECC35 works with the wa22.


----------



## UntilThen

jonathan c said:


> …and with WA2…



Jonathan and @bcowen are hoarding 5998.


----------



## 9bphillips

UntilThen said:


> Hmm that chart did not include ecc35/6sl7 indeed but obviously there are owners here that have used it and love the ecc35 in wa22.
> 
> Just for the sake of clarity, ECC33, ECC35 and ECC32 are not the same tube type.
> 
> ...


I wonder why they would be on 1 chart and not the other? Weird. I agree I have seen tons of ppl mention the ecc35 6sl7gt on this thread. What is the GT at the end of it? Are there ecc35 6sl7 and ecc35 6sl7gt?


----------



## Roasty

I believe charts will get updated accordingly. why not keep things simple, and just refer to the chart on the current WA22 page? if I'm not wrong, the ECC35 was already on the list when I owned the WA22 about 2 years ago.


----------



## 9bphillips

ColSaulTigh said:


>


You have hyped the kr5u4g up so much I'm going to have to get one to compare with my eml5u4g. I am enjoying the eml5u4g but it is the first tube I have ever bought and I have nothing to compare it with. I plan on changing that! Lol. I'm just ready to get my other tubes in to hear the difference.  I think it's safe to say I have become a tube fanatic! To me solid state just can't compare but then again I wonder if my Soloist GT would be better if I had a good desktop dac because right now I'm using my ibasso dx300 as dac and source.


----------



## 9bphillips

Roasty said:


> I believe charts will get updated accordingly. why not keep things simple, and just refer to the chart on the current WA22 page? if I'm not wrong, the ECC35 was already on the list when I owned the WA22 about 2 years ago.


I got it off of the Woo Audio website about 2 months ago when I bought my wa22. From now on I will just go to the website to see if anything has changed.


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> I wonder why they would be on 1 chart and not the other? Weird. I agree I have seen tons of ppl mention the ecc35 6sl7gt on this thread. What is the GT at the end of it? Are there ecc35 6sl7 and ecc35 6sl7gt?



You had the old chart and Roasty had the updated chart, that’s what it is.

GT designation stands for G = glass ; T = short tube.

There’s no such thing as best tube combination. It depends on individual. Once you get into tubes, it’s a whole new love affair. Such as these gorgeous Sylvania 6sn7w metal base.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2248486...s-50b4rTC-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


----------



## 9bphillips (May 30, 2022)

UntilThen said:


> You had the old chart and Roasty had the updated chart, that’s what it is.
> 
> GT designation stands for G = glass ; T = short tube.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree there is no best but only different flavors with anything in this hobby. As for the gt aren't all tubes glass? I have fallen in love with my wa22 and the tube sound in general.  I wish I would have gone straight to tubes honestly. Are there certain dad's that do better with tubes. Thay is my next step. I was thinking maybe the holo spring 3kte,chord tt2, or lampizator amber 4


----------



## jonathan c

Not all tubes are glass. The 6C5 tubes and 6J5 tubes are metal. (These are single triodes: ‘half a 6SN7’). Some were offered as glass tubes: 6C5GT and 6J5GT.


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> Are there certain dad's that do better with tubes.



There’s no such thing unless you’re talking about a tube dac like Lampizator.

WA22 is a transformer coupled amp with about 1.5w per channel. That should drive most headphones. It’s a liquid wet tone which I find pairs particularly well most headphones.

I’ve been through lots of ss and tube amps and to my ears, the magic of a natural organic tone with lovely 3d holographic soundstage from tube amps is something ss amps cannot do.


----------



## jonathan c

UntilThen said:


> Jonathan and @bcowen are hoarding 5998.


I have 4 TS 5998 and 4 GE 5998A. Bcowen is the foton fellow….🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## 9bphillips

UntilThen said:


> There’s no such thing unless you’re talking about a tube dac like Lampizator.
> 
> WA22 is a transformer coupled amp with about 1.5w per channel. That should drive most headphones. It’s a liquid wet tone which I find pairs particularly well most headphones.
> 
> I’ve been through lots of ss and tube amps and to my ears, the magic of a natural organic tone with lovely 3d holographic soundstage from tube amps is something ss amps cannot do.


I didn't know if an r2r or delta sigma dac paired better. I haven't heard much talk about dacs on this thread


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> I didn't know if an r2r or delta sigma dac paired better. I haven't heard much talk about dacs on this thread



Ah I see. I bought Yggdrasil 5 years ago and that was end of story for me on dac.

Naturally I prefer r2r. I do have a spare dac in NAD M51.


----------



## obzilla

Anyone still active in this thread (I've skimmed through and found some older remarks) have any experience with the WA22 and Abyss Dianas? (v2 specifically)


----------



## 9bphillips (Jun 2, 2022)

The  1963 we421a came in a day early! Now I'm waiting on my mullard ecc35 6sl7 brown base which should be in Saturday! Rectifier eml5u4g, power 1963 we421a, and driver mullard ecc35 6sl7! Can't wait for Saturday to hear my WA22 with all upgraded tubes!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Hi, I just got the WA22. I have a sale pending/booked with this gentleman. Could the community experts please help verify if this is legit WEs? Thanks.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649836892-stc-western-electric-421a-tubes/


----------



## thecrow

Adnan Firoze said:


> Hi, I just got the WA22. I have a sale pending/booked with this gentleman. Could the community experts please help verify if this is legit WEs? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649836892-stc-western-electric-421a-tubes/


If you haven’t already ask in this thread - you may get some help there
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-593


----------



## 9bphillips

Adnan Firoze said:


> Hi, I just got the WA22. I have a sale pending/booked with this gentleman. Could the community experts please help verify if this is legit WEs? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649836892-stc-western-electric-421a-tubes/


They are probably rebranded. I just got a pair oc mullard ecc35 6sl7 that was rebranded philips.  I would call them and talk about it.


----------



## 9bphillips

Just went and picked up my Mullard ecc35 6sl7 from the post office. I was impatiently waiting because they were supposed to be here Saturday.  Now I have all the stock tubes replaced. I'm letting them warm up and then gonna have a listen even though I just worked all night! I'm to excited to sleep! Eml5u4g, we421a,  Mullard ecc35 6sl7!


----------



## UntilThen

9bphillips said:


> Just went and picked up my Mullard ecc35 6sl7 from the post office. I was impatiently waiting because they were supposed to be here Saturday.  Now I have all the stock tubes replaced. I'm letting them warm up and then gonna have a listen even though I just worked all night! I'm to excited to sleep! Eml5u4g, we421a,  Mullard ecc35 6sl7!



I'm excited for you. Good tubes are worth forgoing sleep. I remember when I cut the ribbon on the GEC 6AS7G and GEC KT88 for the first time.


----------



## 9bphillips

UntilThen said:


> I'm excited for you. Good tubes are worth forgoing sleep. I remember when I cut the ribbon on the GEC 6AS7G and GEC KT88 for the first time.


I can't believe the sound I am getting from this tube combination. I just got some new pads for my Verite Closed also. It's gonna be a fun night! Lol


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Yay! Brent Jessee had only one pair in his stash.


----------



## 9bphillips

Adnan Firoze said:


> Yay! Brent Jessee had only one pair in his stash.


I'm glad you found a pair! If you dont mind me asking whay did you pay? After hearing these it was well worth it! To me the we421a made the most difference out if all the tubes.


----------



## Roasty

9bphillips said:


> I can't believe the sound I am getting from this tube combination. I just got some new pads for my Verite Closed also. It's gonna be a fun night! Lol



heh... what did I tell u man.. enjoy the combo!


----------



## 9bphillips (Jun 8, 2022)

Roasty said:


> heh... what did I tell u man.. enjoy the combo!


Dude you weren't kidding when you suggested this combo! I mean good lord I dont think I've ever heard such a big improvement in sound. Don't get me wrong, I loved the wa22 from the get go but this is on another level. Those mullard ecc35 are a powerhouse and the we421a shaped the combo into something so sweet and smooth it's just unreal! It's hard for me to put my finger on what tube changed what because as you know it was my first time rolling tubes and I changed them all within a week. All I know Is I really really love the sound. I didn't really love my lcd x that much on the wa22 with stock tubes but with this combo they are freaking great! Of course the Verite Closed sounds phenomenal with these tubes. You definitely hit the nail on the head with this tube combo. I am anxious to try another rectifier with a different sound signature. The eml 5u4g is clean and crisp and I would like to try something different from that to see what It would sound like. Maybe the Tak274b like you said earlier!🤪


----------



## ColSaulTigh

9bphillips said:


> Dude you weren't kidding when you suggested this combo! I mean good lord I dont think I've ever heard such a big improvement in sound. Don't get me wrong, I loved the wa22 from the get go but this is on another level. Those mullard ecc35 are a powerhouse and the we421a shaped the combo into something so sweet and smooth it's just unreal! It's hard for me to put my finger on what tube changed what because as you know it was my first time rolling tubes and I changed them all within a week. All I know Is I really really love the sound. I didn't really love my lcd x that much on the wa22 with stock tubes but with this combo they are freaking great! Of course the Verite Closed sounds phenomenal with these tubes. You definitely hit the nail on the head with this tube combo. I am anxious to try another rectifier with a different sound signature. The eml 5u4g is clean and crisp and I would like to try something different from that to see what It would sound like. Maybe the Tak274b like you said earlier!🤪


Takatsuki 274B is even more clean and pure than the EML 5U4G.  If you want some grunt, find a USAF "Mighty" 596 + adapter (Woo Audio stocks them, I think).  Rich, thick, "syrupy" sounding.  Great for jazz, classic rock/hard rock, blues, etc.  Not something you use for EDM/Techno.


----------



## lumdicks (Jun 8, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> Dude you weren't kidding when you suggested this combo! I mean good lord I dont think I've ever heard such a big improvement in sound. Don't get me wrong, I loved the wa22 from the get go but this is on another level. Those mullard ecc35 are a powerhouse and the we421a shaped the combo into something so sweet and smooth it's just unreal! It's hard for me to put my finger on what tube changed what because as you know it was my first time rolling tubes and I changed them all within a week. All I know Is I really really love the sound. I didn't really love my lcd x that much on the wa22 with stock tubes but with this combo they are freaking great! Of course the Verite Closed sounds phenomenal with these tubes. You definitely hit the nail on the head with this tube combo. I am anxious to try another rectifier with a different sound signature. The eml 5u4g is clean and crisp and I would like to try something different from that to see what It would sound like. Maybe the Tak274b like you said earlier!🤪


Go for WE422A and it is a perfect match with your 421A and ECC35. I am pairing it with ECC32 so I know how good it is.


----------



## 9bphillips

lumdicks said:


> Go for WE422A and it is a perfect match with your 421A and ECC35. I am pairing it with ECC32 so I know how good it is.


I will have to check into those. If it is anything like the we421a then I'm all on board. I absolutely love those tubes. The 421a did the most for the sound quality in my opinion.  I plan on having several tubes incase anything unfortunate happens!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Awright! All stock tubes swapped. Thanks @ColSaulTigh  for recommending the mighty USAF 596 rectifier. There was a week wait to have them make the adapter.


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Jun 8, 2022)

Adnan Firoze said:


> Awright! All stock tubes swapped. Thanks @ColSaulTigh  for recommending the mighty USAF 596 rectifier. There was a week wait to have them make the adapter.


Yeah, the wait is rough, but they're very well made and about the best I've found (although I understand Glenn makes some excellent ones as well.)


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Jun 10, 2022)

I have a quick question. Is it worth paying for "elite" power tubes just for the power? I am running my Susvara from my Benchmark speaker amp with the WA22 as a preamp. Is investing in TS 5998 worth it then, cause I don't need anything on the "gain" front? But how about the sound signature? What else is out there w/o TS 5998 and WE 421a?


----------



## 9bphillips

Adnan Firoze said:


> I have a quick question. Is it worth paying for "elite" power tubes just for the power? I am running my Susvara from my Benchmark speaker amp with the WA22 as a preamp. Is investing in TS 5998 worth it then, cause I don't need anything on the "gain" front? But how about the sound signature? What else is out there w/o TS 5998 and WE 421a?


I'm curious about that also.


----------



## deutscherhififan

ColSaulTigh said:


> Takatsuki 274B is even more clean and pure than the EML 5U4G.  If you want some grunt, find a USAF "Mighty" 596 + adapter (Woo Audio stocks them, I think).  Rich, thick, "syrupy" sounding.  Great for jazz, classic rock/hard rock, blues, etc.  Not something you use for EDM/Techno.





Adnan Firoze said:


> Awright! All stock tubes swapped. Thanks @ColSaulTigh  for recommending the mighty USAF 596 rectifier. There was a week wait to have them make the adapter.


----------



## deutscherhififan

I picked up a used WA22 on Headfi and love it. I also use the USAF rectifier and can confirm it made a huge improvement over both EML and Sophia Electric 274B. I also realized this amp is hugely sensitive to the quality of power. If I plug it into a regular outlet in my house I get hum and noise. If I plug it into my PS Audio P5 connected to a dedicated power line for my hifi set-up, it is dead quiet. I started to play with the Linlai Elite 6AS7 and really like them. Have a pair of NOS 6AS7G Tung-Sol Chatham 1955 coming from Holland, very excited.


----------



## Roasty

seeing all these pics.. once again I have regrets selling my WA22. if I had the spare cash, I'd get one again if only just to listen to the tak/ecc35/421a combo again.


----------



## lumdicks (Jun 11, 2022)

Roasty said:


> seeing all these pics.. once again I have regrets selling my WA22. if I had the spare cash, I'd get one again if only just to listen to the tak/ecc35/421a combo again.


I am almost only using my WA22 listening to WE274 / WE422A / ECC32 / 421A combo indeed.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

VanHai said:


> I think we have the same set of tubes.



What socket savers are those, the golden ones?


----------



## drjerryyan

deutscherhififan said:


> ... If I plug it into my PS Audio P5 connected to a dedicated power line for my hifi set-up, it is dead quiet.


I have SIGNIFICANT problems with hum.  How do you do a "dedicated power line"?  Have others used power supplies that help with the problems with "hum" on their WA-22?


----------



## VanHai

Adnan Firoze said:


> What socket savers are those, the golden ones?


Those are from Amazon.
Amptata Octal 8pin Tube Saver​


----------



## deutscherhififan

drjerryyan said:


> I have SIGNIFICANT problems with hum.  How do you do a "dedicated power line"?  Have others used power supplies that help with the problems with "hum" on their WA-22?


I had my Electrician run a dedicated line from our main breaker box to my hifi system when we upgraded our electrical system for solar and home batteries. Nothing else is on that line and it shows. The P5 is more for protection than clean power.


----------



## orrm

There are days I miss my WA22.. enjoy yours everyone!


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Am I crazy to prefer the Cetron/Tung Sol 7236 over the WE 421a and TS 5998 as power tubes? Really, they are super awesome with the kind of rock-heavy music I listen to.


----------



## CAJames

Adnan Firoze said:


> Am I crazy to prefer the Cetron/Tung Sol 7236 over the WE 421a and TS 5998 as power tubes? Really, they are super awesome with the kind of rock-heavy music I listen to.


No! Enjoy what sounds good, and if it costs less than WE all the better.


----------



## VanHai

Adnan Firoze said:


> Am I crazy to prefer the Cetron/Tung Sol 7236 over the WE 421a and TS 5998 as power tubes? Really, they are super awesome with the kind of rock-heavy music I listen to.


No, you are not. I have both Cetron/ Tung Sol 7236 and TS5998, the 7236s are almost as good as 5998s. I compensate the 7236s by using these higher gain driver tubes, TS 6sl7 GT long and short and 6c8g tubes .


----------



## Adnan Firoze

@nephilim32  - welcome to the jungle my friend. This is where WA22 related wisdom (and confusions) are propagated. I got great advice from several of veteran owners in this thread.


----------



## 9bphillips

I have noticed when I am listening to my wa22 while on my phone there is is static. It can move my phone closer to my wa22 and it gets worse. Will this effect anything and how can I fix it. It doesn't bother me while music is playing but I would still like to know if there is a fix. Thanks in advance!


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Tubes are susceptible to RF interference.  Some tubes more than others.  Short of putting your amplifier inside a Faraday cage, there's not much you can do but keep your phone further away from the tubes.  4-5' should do it.


----------



## 9bphillips

ColSaulTigh said:


> Tubes are susceptible to RF interference.  Some tubes more than others.  Short of putting your amplifier inside a Faraday cage, there's not much you can do but keep your phone further away from the tubes.  4-5' should do it.


It's not that big of a deal. I was just curious.  Thx


----------



## muckyfingers

I saw these XLR Dust Cap Plugs on someone else's unit and liked them, I found them for sale on Amazon.

XLR Rhodium Dust Caps


----------



## 9bphillips

muckyfingers said:


> I saw these XLR Dust Cap Plugs on someone else's unit and liked them, I found them for sale on Amazon.
> 
> XLR Rhodium Dust Caps


Too bad they don't have them in black


----------



## deutscherhififan (Jun 20, 2022)

deutscherhififan said:


> I had my Electrician run a dedicated line from our main breaker box to my hifi system when we upgraded our electrical system for solar and home batteries. Nothing else is on that line and it shows. The P5 is more for protection than clean power.


One other option for you I just tried for my 'noisy' outlet: The Audiolab DC Blocker and Mains filter, $129 at Amazon right now. Wow, this little box eliminated all hum for me when using a 'dirty' power outlet, even after turning on dimmers, TV, microwave, etc. throughout the house. I do not detect any negative impact on sound quality, on the contrary. I am sold and will get more. I clearly had a bit of DC in my line that transformers absolutely hate and respond to with hum. Give it a try.... free returns.
​


----------



## muckyfingers

9bphillips said:


> Too bad they don't have them in black


They aren’t as fancy looking, but there are black dust covers you could buy on Amazon.

Neutrik XLR Dust Covers


----------



## Adnan Firoze

muckyfingers said:


> I saw these XLR Dust Cap Plugs on someone else's unit and liked them, I found them for sale on Amazon.
> 
> XLR Rhodium Dust Caps



Does the center/ground pin cause any problem? Should it be unscrewed?


----------



## muckyfingers

Adnan Firoze said:


> Does the center/ground pin cause any problem? Should it be unscrewed?


It doesn’t cause any issues on the front ports because the sockets are already always connected to the chassis/ground.

Where it would cause an issue or possibly damage is using them as is on the XLR inputs on the back, those are not connected to ground in the same way.

I would remove the ground pin from the dust cap and line the inside of it with a little electrical tape or something to make it hug the socket, that’s what I did to cover the 4 pin XLR socket today on my unit.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

muckyfingers said:


> It doesn’t cause any issues on the front ports because the sockets are already always connected to the chassis/ground.
> 
> Where it would cause an issue or possibly damage is using them as is on the XLR inputs on the back, those are not connected to ground in the same way.
> 
> I would remove the ground pin from the dust cap and line the inside of it with a little electrical tape or something to make it hug the socket, that’s what I did to cover the 4 pin XLR socket today on my unit.



Thanks so much. Any tips/instructions on how to unscrew the pin? I just ordered a pair. Thanks in advance.


----------



## muckyfingers

It’s basically epoxied in there, I used needle nosed pliers to rock it loose.


----------



## Contrails

How does the gen 2 sound vs the gen 1? Is it still just as romantic sounding?


----------



## drjerryyan

deutscherhififan said:


> One other option for you I just tried for my 'noisy' outlet: The Audiolab DC Blocker and Mains filter, $129 at Amazon right now. Wow, this little box eliminated all hum for me when using a 'dirty' power outlet, even after turning on dimmers, TV, microwave, etc. throughout the house. I do not detect any negative impact on sound quality, on the contrary. I am sold and will get more. I clearly had a bit of DC in my line that transformers absolutely hate and respond to with hum. Give it a try.... free returns.
> ​


Thank you for your response but I have a clarifying question: did it eliminated the hum on your wa22 or your other high end equipment?


----------



## deutscherhififan

drjerryyan said:


> Thank you for your response but I have a clarifying question: did it eliminated the hum on your wa22 or your other high end equipment?


It eliminated the hum for the WA22. All my other equipment is plugged into a PS Audio P5 which is plugged into a dedicated power line. No hum there...


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Just scored the awesome Cossor/Mullard GZ37 fat bottle rare rectifier (check out Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread). It's just as much of an upgrade from the mighty USAF that I was using before as she writes.


----------



## VanHai

Adnan Firoze said:


> Just scored the awesome Cossor/Mullard GZ37 fat bottle rare rectifier (check out Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread). It's just as much of an upgrade from the mighty USAF that I was using before as she writes.


How do they sound?. 

I have a similar set up with Mullard GZ32, Tung- Sol 6SL7 and TS 5998 and they sound very dynamic and detail,


----------



## Adnan Firoze

VanHai said:


> How do they sound?.
> 
> I have a similar set up with Mullard GZ32, Tung- Sol 6SL7 and TS 5998 and they sound very dynamic and detail,



Sounds really great. Tad warmer than the USAF one but I just got it like 40 minutes ago. Please allow me a little more time to form a more well-rounded impression. Although I am using Kenrad vt231s but I can surely post the differences. As of now, heavy metal music has less aggression to them. Which I find very pleasing though I won't say it's accurate cause the recordings themselves are shrill. Haha.


----------



## UntilThen

Adnan Firoze said:


> Just scored the awesome Cossor/Mullard GZ37 fat bottle rare rectifier (check out Dubstep Girl's rectifier thread). It's just as much of an upgrade from the mighty USAF that I was using before as she writes.



I thought I was looking at my amp because I have the same tubes at one point.


----------



## muckyfingers

I did not like the Blue LED, so I changed it out to an Amber LED, I very much prefer it this way. Also, the Sophia Princess tube sounds and looks fantastic.


----------



## gordec

Anyone using WA22 with Arya? A quick search yielded no discussion. I'm debating between WA22 vs Cayin HA-6a to drive Arya.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

gordec said:


> Anyone using WA22 with Arya? A quick search yielded no discussion. I'm debating between WA22 vs Cayin HA-6a to drive Arya.



I do but I don't have the Cayin. I imagine you'll get a more traditional wobbly tube sound off the Cayin as it has two modes (linear and triode). On triode mode you should get softer bass, less highs etc. But I wouldn't get the Cayin because tube amps are always a bit finicky - and they discontinued the HA-6A and Woo has amazing support.


----------



## CAJames

gordec said:


> Anyone using WA22 with Arya? A quick search yielded no discussion. I'm debating between WA22 vs Cayin HA-6a to drive Arya.



Yes, and it is excellent. The Senn HD650 was my headphone for many years but the upgrade bug finally won out and I got an Arya about a year ago and am glad I did. I have no opinion on the Cayin but the thing with the WA22 is the sound is highly customizable based on your tube choices.


----------



## Coran (Jul 5, 2022)

Hey folks, I might be pulling the trigger on this amp in a few days. How bad is the tube rolling market these days? I'm sure I'll be sticking with the stock tubes for a while, but at some point I'll definitely want to start rolling. Are the prices insane? Is there even good inventory at this point? I am VERY new to the world of tubes so this should be a fun ride...


----------



## 9bphillips

If I am listening to my wa22 and the power randomly goes out can it mess the Amp or tubes up? Just curious?


----------



## 9bphillips

Coran said:


> Hey folks, I might be pulling the trigger on this amp in a few days. How bad is the tube rolling market these days? I'm sure I'll be sticking with the stock tubes for a while, but at some point I'll definitely want to start rolling. Are the prices insane? Is there even good inventory at this point? I am VERY new to the world of tubes so this should be a fun ride...


It all depends on what tubes you want. You can buy cheaper tubes that will sound good but you can definitely spend some money if you shoot for the moon. I went ahead and did it big my first time. I had never heard tubes before when I bought the wa22 and I was wowed by the stock tubes. Once I rolled tubes to emission labs 5u4g mesh, western electric 421a, and mullard ecc35 6sl7 the sound of the wa22 was much better though. I spent another $1400 on tubes but it was a big improvement over the stock tubes and imo it was very worth it considering I listen with my wa22 90% of the time over my Soloist GT. I also enjoy WA22 preamp into the GT.


----------



## nephilim32

Hi Everyone. I’m happy to say that I’m part of the family. 
My WA22 (2nd Gen) will be delivered tomorrow and in the meantime a really nice set of 6N13C (NOS). 1990. Sovtek power tubes came in mail just in time. 


I’ll be running an all Soviet lineup of Sovtek and Tungsol. 
Rectifier— Sovtek 5AR4
Power Tubes - Sovtek 6N13C (6AS7G) (NOS)
Driver Tubes— Tungsol 6SN7 GTB



I’m kinda cheating and ignoring the stock tubes and going straight to my upgraded set. I’m just too excited to hear the very best I have. Look forward to sharing my experiences and I happily read through this entire thread and man those Tungsol 5998 get some serious love here. One day I’ll try’em. I’ll just have to let my wallet cry once…hard! Lol


----------



## Adnan Firoze

nephilim32 said:


> Hi Everyone. I’m happy to say that I’m part of the family.
> My WA22 (2nd Gen) will be delivered tomorrow and in the meantime a really nice set of 6N13C (NOS). 1990. Sovtek power tubes came in mail just in time.
> 
> 
> ...



Yay @nephilim32 !!!! Welcome to the club or more like rabbit hole and you are already well ahead into the journey. So nice to see you here. Surely, much more fun discussions to come.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

@nephilim32 : Adding, I have an unused spare pair of TS 5998 but not planning to sell at the moment. So, when you think you want to invest in a genuine new matched pair in a few months (so many fakes and price-hikes around), hit me up. You already have a stellar set up ready to go! Woo hoo!


----------



## nephilim32

Adnan Firoze said:


> @nephilim32  - welcome to the jungle my friend. This is where WA22 related wisdom (and confusions) are propagated. I got great advice from several of veteran owners in this thread.


The jungle be thick, however I’m gonna sift through it like a madman. 


Adnan Firoze said:


> Yay @nephilim32 !!!! Welcome to the club or more like rabbit hole and you are already well ahead into the journey. So nice to see you here. Surely, much more fun discussions to come.


I really couldn’t be happier my friend. My dedication and love for this hobby certainly deserves this…the mighty tubes! I’m so glad to be part of this. I’m past the weeds and into the jungle.  


Adnan Firoze said:


> @nephilim32 : Adding, I have an unused spare pair of TS 5998 but not planning to sell at the moment. So, when you think you want to invest in a genuine new matched pair in a few months (so many fakes and price-hikes around), hit me up. You already have a stellar set up ready to go! Woo hoo!


I may take you up on that, however I’ll need some to take that 5998 leap cause if there is one thing I know right now is that my 6N13C’s are bloody badass. Lol. Honestly when I first saw there immense size I got goosebumps. No tube has ever made me do that! I think I did something right and I look forward to sharing lots of experiences to come. Of course I will be utilizing the amp in every aspect. Looking forward to to hearing the pre amp section. 

Woooooo!  🤗


----------



## KZCloud89

The WA22 was the first and only tube amp I purchased more than a decade ago.  Tube rolling is hella fun...and also expensive if you're not discipline.  Save up for the top tubes and never look back.  Here it is shadowing the Utopia and Meze Elite....


----------



## nephilim32

KZCloud89 said:


> The WA22 was the first and only tube amp I purchased more than a decade ago.  Tube rolling is hella fun...and also expensive if you're not discipline.  Save up for the top tubes and never look back.  Here it is shadowing the Utopia and Meze Elite....


I believe you.  

I also think your set up looks really fantastic. Nice job. Everything down to the socket savers. 👍


----------



## KZCloud89

Those are actually Woo Audio 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters.  They allowed me to use 6F8G tube varieties instead...


----------



## ColSaulTigh

KZCloud89 said:


> Those are actually Woo Audio 6F8G to 6SN7 adapters.  They allowed me to use 6F8G tube varieties instead...


Did someone say Woo Audio 6F8G > 6SN7 adapters???


----------



## jbua5150

ColSaulTigh said:


> Did someone say Woo Audio 6F8G > 6SN7 adapters???


----------



## Badas

The wires on my adapters are designed to go straight out the back. Made by Glenn.
So they aren't visible and out of the way of any other tube.


----------



## KZCloud89

Yes I prefer them straight out the back too away  from the power tubes.


----------



## jbua5150

When I purchased my WA22 it came with some cheap-o adapters that I've used for a year.  I've had fitment issues with the cheap-o adapters.  After cleaning the top contacts on my ART 6F8G's, the cheap-o's didn't fit snugly on the top contact.  Upon further inspection of that very "generic" ceramic top piece, I can see that it is just a flat piece of metal bent into a "u" shape. I was able to wedge a tiny screwdriver in there and bend the metal contact, but it was still not snug on the top of the tube. It was at that moment that I decided to pull the trigger on the Woo Audio 6F8G-6SN7 adapters and I regret nothing.  The construction on these are second to none.   First of all, the top piece is machined aluminum.  Much better looking than my old "upside down bathtub" looking tops.  The actual contact is what has impressed me the most.  This is a custom made piece, with multiple points of contact and is designed and machined to perfection.   The base where the tube is inserted into the adapter has contacts of the same design and high quality machining, and are a marked improvement in fitment over the cheap-o adapters.   While the Woo Audio adapters are costly, I appreciate the fact that most if not all of the parts are made BY Woo Audio and not off the shelf parts.  Nothing about my hobby is inexpensive, and I don't feel the need to skimp on the cost of adapters.


----------



## UntilThen

nephilim32 said:


> Hi Everyone. I’m happy to say that I’m part of the family.
> My WA22 (2nd Gen) will be delivered tomorrow and in the meantime a really nice set of 6N13C (NOS). 1990. Sovtek power tubes came in mail just in time.
> 
> 
> ...



Well well your name sound familiar. We must have met sometime ago. Congrats on the Wa22.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

Badas said:


> The wires on my adapters are designed to go straight out the back. Made by Glenn.
> So they aren't visible and out of the way of any other tube.



This is wonderful. I always feel a bit hesitant using the "mighty" USAF 596 because of the adapter management and end up using the COSSOR/Mullard GZ37 Fat bottle (great rectifier too) instead. Yours look sublime btw. Wish I had an adapter like that.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Adnan Firoze said:


> This is wonderful. I always feel a bit hesitant using the "mighty" USAF 596 because of the adapter management and end up using the COSSOR/Mullard GZ37 Fat bottle (great rectifier too) instead. Yours look sublime btw. Wish I had an adapter like that.


1) Once those 596's are installed, there's nothing to manage.  Use those Mighty 596's!!!

2) I bet if you asked, someone could point you in Glenn's direction and he could not only make you some 6F8G adapters, but could probably make some 596 adapters with the wires coming out the back as well.....


----------



## nephilim32

Hello friends. Agh. 
The dreaded customs/import charges have delayed my shipping for a couple days. I might get the WA 22 tomorrow. The wait is a bit torturous, especially being Fed Ex’s fault. They send you import/duty charges at the very last minute, so your package gets detained and the duty tax was pretty ridiculous, but such is the cost of doing business south of the border being a Canadian. 

Anyhow. Patience is a virtue and I’m allowing the excitement to mount cause I have a pretty good feeling I’ll be enjoying this amp for at least 10 years. 

Hope everyone is doing well and still loving their WA 22’s. 

Impressions to come soon 

🤗


----------



## Contrails

ColSaulTigh said:


> 1) Once those 596's are installed, there's nothing to manage.  Use those Mighty 596's!!!
> 
> 2) I bet if you asked, someone could point you in Glenn's direction and he could not only make you some 6F8G adapters, but could probably make some 596 adapters with the wires coming out the back as well.....


I think Glenn has been away from HF for a number of months. People haven't heard from him in a long time due to health reasons. A lot of ppl paid deposits for amps too. 

I had my 596 adapter from ebay and one from Glenn. Both worked fine. Woo makes adapters too. I quite like the Woo ones but a bit dear.


----------



## u2u2 (Jul 15, 2022)

nephilim32 said:


> Hello friends. Agh.
> The dreaded customs/import charges have delayed my shipping for a couple days. I might get the WA 22 tomorrow. The wait is a bit torturous, especially being Fed Ex’s fault. They send you import/duty charges at the very last minute, so your package gets detained and the duty tax was pretty ridiculous, but such is the cost of doing business south of the border being a Canadian.
> 
> Anyhow. Patience is a virtue and I’m allowing the excitement to mount cause I have a pretty good feeling I’ll be enjoying this amp for at least 10 years.
> ...


You pay HST just like if you bought it here in TO. A small Fedex fee, usually about $10.00. Then you receive package the same day it arrives in Canada. This is the beauty of living in TO and shipping with Fedex. For USA to Canada Fedex beat the #rap out of their competitors. One trick though, be watching for the fee to be posted. If you miss it the package will be delayed. Of course if the dog likes your package all bets would be off. You will forget whatever went off the rails when you power the WA22 up... Gonna fire mine up now, but first roll in some different tubes.


----------



## UntilThen

596 rectifier and adapter from Woo Audio is my pet love now. I use it on Odyssey and Wa22. Makes the Telefunken EL156 more sparkly like tiny stars in the sky on a clear night.


----------



## nephilim32

I’m rolling my friends!! 

God. I spent a good hour setting this up properly cause I’m utilizing everything that the WA 22 has to offer and my audio rack is a bit tough to fish cables around through. Anyhow. Highly worth it! 

So I got spend 3 hrs with the amp only last night sadly, however with in those 3 hours I swear to god I was in absolute heaven. 
 I really can’t believe how good this amp is and now I know why this thread is a billion pages. I get it…I really do.  

So right off the bat I’ve leaped frogged the stock tubes (nothing personal ) cause they are actually quite good. I’m utilizing the dual 3 pin XLR on the low impedance setting with my LCD XC’s. All I can say is truly get why the WA22 gets the attention it deserves. So right off the bat as opposed to my BURSON solid state the glaring differences   are mainly in tonal density and realism. Those things alone have really transformed my listening experiences and already I can say it is one that I like better. 

Long story short. I wasn’t expecting this amp to be this good right off the hop, but then again I have really terrific tubes and clean power to boot. 
I should point out as well I’m getting an absolute pitch black background and have zero hum issues to which some have stated on here. The WA22 is incredibly clean and extremely authoritative in sound presentation. Of course my upgraded tubes complete this amp being so wonderful in its overall Sonic presentation and I haven’t even burned the sucker in!!! 

Lots more to say in the future. I will just touch on one other thing, so I don’t make this post too convoluted is that the pre-section is awesome!! So I put the volume pot at about 75% and the tube flavor and character really shines through to my BURSON soloist very very well. I really enjoy the sound, but I have to say I just love the WA22 straight as a headphone amp so far. 
Meanwhile, my XC’s have never sounded better. Some of that harshness in there treble region has evaporated quite a bit. XC’s are a terrific match with tubes and of course I cannot wait to test my HD 800’s tonight with the WA22. I’ll probably fall off my couch!! Lol. 

So far so good gentlemen. This is a win for me and I know it is just going to get better. 
Lastly. Just a quick apology. My photos suck. My camera can’t capture the Filament glow of the tubes. I can assure though. They are beautiful in a dimly lit room.  

Cheers everyone. More to come soon!


----------



## nephilim32

Also. Here is the music I used to get a good idea of what the WA22 is capable of. Just a couple of albums here, but the sound they cover is very diverse. 
I found this complete euphoria, especially the BlackRain soundtrack/score.


----------



## nephilim32

Retro photo style of my tube glow.  
I’m getting some hrs put on this amp. Extremely happy with what the WA22 can do.


----------



## deutscherhififan

nephilim32 said:


> I’m rolling my friends!!
> 
> God. I spent a good hour setting this up properly cause I’m utilizing everything that the WA 22 has to offer and my audio rack is a bit tough to fish cables around through. Anyhow. Highly worth it!
> 
> ...


Funny, I am using the WA22 with LCD-XC’s as well. Would love open back ‘phones, but this is my escape when the wife watches annoying cooking shows… 😳


----------



## nephilim32

deutscherhififan said:


> Funny, I am using the WA22 with LCD-XC’s as well. Would love open back ‘phones, but this is my escape when the wife watches annoying cooking shows… 😳


My wife thinks I’m gonna replace her with tubes!! Lol it has been a fun obsession to have to get to where I am now. I did quite a bit of research and had to buy quite a few accessories to accommodate the WA22 properly. 
Anyway. I love the way my XC sounds with the WA22. I’m actually quite surprised what a nice match the XC’s are with tube amplification. The midrange of the XC’s has improved so much as opposed to using my solid state BURSON amp. The BURSON is still great and I actually prefer my HD 800’s with it over the WA 22 headphone out direct. Although, the WA 22 as a pre amp for my BURSON with the HD 800’s is lights out incredible. Best I’ve heard so far, but then again I still gotta break in my WA22 and put some more hrs on my tubes….it may get better. I’m patient. 

Lastly. I hope you enjoy a nice reference open back soon. Surely the realism with open backs is unparalleled.


----------



## deutscherhififan

nephilim32 said:


> My wife thinks I’m gonna replace her with tubes!! Lol it has been a fun obsession to have to get to where I am now. I did quite a bit of research and had to buy quite a few accessories to accommodate the WA22 properly.
> Anyway. I love the way my XC sounds with the WA22. I’m actually quite surprised what a nice match the XC’s are with tube amplification. The midrange of the XC’s has improved so much as opposed to using my solid state BURSON amp. The BURSON is still great and I actually prefer my HD 800’s with it over the WA 22 headphone out direct. Although, the WA 22 as a pre amp for my BURSON with the HD 800’s is lights out incredible. Best I’ve heard so far, but then again I still gotta break in my WA22 and put some more hrs on my tubes….it may get better. I’m patient.
> 
> Lastly. I hope you enjoy a nice reference open back soon. Surely the realism with open backs is unparalleled.


I agree, WA22 and LCD-XC are a great match. But then, I don’t have a comparison, right now… I also use it as a preamp right now into tube monos while I wait for my Supratek to finally show up after a 7 month wait. It sounds awesome as a pre, that’s for sure.


----------



## jbua5150

deutscherhififan said:


> I agree, WA22 and LCD-XC are a great match. But then, I don’t have a comparison, right now… I also use it as a preamp right now into tube monos while I wait for my Supratek to finally show up after a 7 month wait. It sounds awesome as a pre, that’s for sure.


All this praise of how good the WA22 is as a pre-amp has me very intrigued. 
I’ve never tried it as a pre.  
I may have to swap out my Freya+ and try the WA22 out to my Sim Moon 400m monoblocks…. 🤔


----------



## deutscherhififan

jbua5150 said:


> All this praise of how good the WA22 is as a pre-amp has me very intrigued.
> I’ve never tried it as a pre.
> I may have to swap out my Freya+ and try the WA22 out to my Sim Moon 400m monoblocks…. 🤔


I had a Freya once and the Woo is night and day in comparison. Only the lack of remote volume is a drag.


----------



## jbua5150

deutscherhififan said:


> I had a Freya once and the Woo is night and day in comparison. Only the lack of remote volume is a drag.


That was what I was just considering…
No remote


----------



## deutscherhififan

jbua5150 said:


> That was what I was just considering…
> No remote


20 years ago Jack Woo built me a WA2 with remote volume. He didn’t like it, but he did it and it worked great. I was an idiot for selling it. It can be done…


----------



## attmci

Good?

Check out NEW OLD STOCK UNUSED USA MADE WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A OCTAL BASED POWER DUO-TRIODE on eBay!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2849005961...6KDfTlQqq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL


----------



## nephilim32

deutscherhififan said:


> I agree, WA22 and LCD-XC are a great match. But then, I don’t have a comparison, right now… I also use it as a preamp right now into tube monos while I wait for my Supratek to finally show up after a 7 month wait. It sounds awesome as a pre, that’s for sure.



Absolutely. You’ve come this far. You’ll get an open back eventually. It is human audiophile nature. Lol.


----------



## nephilim32

attmci said:


> Good?
> 
> Check out NEW OLD STOCK UNUSED USA MADE WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A OCTAL BASED POWER DUO-TRIODE on eBay!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2849005961...6KDfTlQqq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL


I think so. You did alright.


----------



## nephilim32

jbua5150 said:


> All this praise of how good the WA22 is as a pre-amp has me very intrigued.
> I’ve never tried it as a pre.
> I may have to swap out my Freya+ and try the WA22 out to my Sim Moon 400m monoblocks…. 🤔


Absolutely go for it. I was nicely surprised. As a pre-amp the WA22 works best with my HD 800 so far (pre burn in. ) 
I’ve only got 16 hrs on the thing. 😒


----------



## CAJames

deutscherhififan said:


> … I also use it as a preamp right now into tube monos while I wait for my Supratek to finally show up after a 7 month wait. It sounds awesome as a pre, that’s for sure.



Me too. I probably use it more as a pre (also with balanced tube monoblocks) than I do with 'phones. It excels in both roles IMO and really simplified my system.


----------



## jbua5150

Look what you all made me do…….


----------



## jbua5150

deutscherhififan said:


> I had a Freya once and the Woo is night and day in comparison. Only the lack of remote volume is a drag.


After my first few hours of listening, the sound quality of WA22 is FAR superior to the Freya+.
Soundstage has widened massively, and there is a crispness to the highs that the Freya+ just doesn't have.
I had tried this tube combo (Syl 7236+TS BGRP 6F8G+Sophia Princess) on Audeze LCD-4z headphones last night, and found them to be quite bass heavy. 
The James Loudspeakers I'm using tend to be quite rich in the bass department.  I was concerned that this tube combo might not be ideal,  and that I should replace the Sophia for a Brimar CV717 to brighten things up.  Not necessary at all!  I'm getting a wonderfully balanced sound that I've not heard with the Freya+.


----------



## deutscherhififan

jbua5150 said:


> Look what you all made me do…….


Congrats! Just what the doctor ordered… 😳


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Jul 21, 2022)

attmci said:


> Good?
> 
> Check out NEW OLD STOCK UNUSED USA MADE WESTERN ELECTRIC 421A OCTAL BASED POWER DUO-TRIODE on eBay!
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2849005961...6KDfTlQqq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL



Looks good but it's a single. For the WA22, you need very tightly matched power tubes.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

On the topic of the WA22 as a pre, I honestly am not blown away using a Susvara and 1266 TC. I prefer them right off of the amp. I find the sound lose a bit body on the AHB2 power amp (relative to the amp output directly). It has also a lot to do with what power tubes being used. With the cheaper Thomson 6080WA, it is much warmer and full bodied as a pre than the TS 5998/WE 421A that are more powerful and transparent.


----------



## davehg

Adnan Firoze said:


> On the topic of the WA22 as a pre, I honestly am not blown away using a Susvara and 1266 TC. I prefer them right off of the amp. I find the sound lose a bit body on the AHB2 power amp (relative to the amp output directly). It has also a lot to do with what power tubes being used. With the cheaper Thomson 6080WA, it is much warmer and full bodied as a pre than the TS 5998/WE 421A that are more powerful and transparent.


I have a Leben CS600x integrated that can be used a power amp only, but it doesn’t sound as good as when used as an integrated. I had eyed the WA22 G2  when setting up my speaker based system given the obvious convenience but I was advised there are better preamp only choices so I went with a 300b based preamp which sounds awesome (but no headphone support).


----------



## davehg

heads up I am putting my Gen 1 WA22 up for sale. It sports some nice NOS tubes, and I had a shop install a pair of $450 Jupiter copper capacitors which greatly enhanced dynamics and tone. I’ll post a link soon. I’ve loved this system but now that my house remodel is finished I finally have my listening room back and migrating back to 2ch speaker setups, and the WA22 is a bit redundant with my Leben and Bottlehead amps/preamps. Will be asking $1600.


----------



## synfinatic

Anyone with a WA22 and experience with the WA6(-SE) care to comment on how they compare sound/presentation wise?  I see a lot of people with both in their signatures and curious if you see the WA22 as an upgrade or just different/synergies with different HPs?


----------



## VanHai

synfinatic said:


> Anyone with a WA22 and experience with the WA6(-SE) care to comment on how they compare sound/presentation wise?  I see a lot of people with both in their signatures and curious if you see the WA22 as an upgrade or just different/synergies with different HPs?


I own WA22 and WA6-SE, both are 2nd Gen. It is definitely an upgrade from WE6-SE to WA22, if you pair WE6-SE  with the correct tubes it can perform beautifully, up to about 85% to 90% of the WA22. To my ears the WA22 is a sonic amp, has more musical, detail, clarity and wider soundstage.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

In case anyone is interested, I found a pair of my beloved *KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition Rectifier tubes* for sale. I've bought from him before, excellent seller, but he's firm on his price.

Go get 'em!


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Jul 23, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> In case anyone is interested, I found a pair of my beloved *KR-Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition Rectifier tubes* for sale. I've bought from him before, excellent seller, but he's firm on his price.
> 
> Go get 'em!



Argh! Now I regret logging on to Headfi this afternoon.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

In case anyone is interested, selling off my spare Mullard/Cossor GZ37 "Fat Bottle" (very different from the regular version, please read DubStep Girl's famous ranking and impressions - linked below) in NOS condition.
https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/rare-mullard-cossor-gz37-fat-bottle-rectifier-tube.29865/

You can read about it on DubStep Girl's famous thread/ranking. It's at #3.


----------



## attmci

nephilim32 said:


> I think so. You did alright.


Thanks for your comments sir. I have been in this game for a while and collected most of the tubes I like to try.


----------



## attmci

Adnan Firoze said:


> Looks good but it's a single. For the WA22, you need very tightly matched power tubes.


Collecting now, pairing later my friend.


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Jul 24, 2022)

attmci said:


> Collecting now, pairing later my friend.



I meant if you buy one, then later buy a different one (same brand and model) and they are not properly matched, you'll get channel imbalance and will have no use for the single. I bought a pair of WE 421a that were very slanted on one channel and returned the pair. So, if you are buying particularly for the WA22, matching on power tubes is crucial. Driver tubes are less prone to this though but these are holy grail of power tubes, so from wherever you buy from, I recommend one with a return policy.


----------



## attmci

jbua5150 said:


> After my first few hours of listening, the sound quality of WA22 is FAR superior to the Freya+.
> Soundstage has widened massively, and there is a crispness to the highs that the Freya+ just doesn't have.
> I had tried this tube combo (Syl 7236+TS BGRP 6F8G+Sophia Princess) on Audeze LCD-4z headphones last night, and found them to be quite bass heavy.
> The James Loudspeakers I'm using tend to be quite rich in the bass department.  I was concerned that this tube combo might not be ideal,  and that I should replace the Sophia for a Brimar CV717 to brighten things up.  Not necessary at all!  I'm getting a wonderfully balanced sound that I've not heard with the Freya+.


ECC35 + 421A or 5998 may bring more enjoyable time to you. just my 2c.


----------



## attmci

Adnan Firoze said:


> I meant if you buy one, then later buy a different one (same brand and model) and they are not properly matched, you'll get channel imbalance and will have no use for the single. I bought a pair of WE 421a that were very slanted on one channel and returned the pair. So, if you are buying particularly for the WA22, matching on power tubes is crucial. Driver tubes are less prone to this though but these are holy grail of power tubes, so from wherever you buy from, I recommend one with a return policy.


I believe one of the tubes in the pair you purchased may have an issue. Luckily, I don't have severe channel imbalance issue for any pairs of my power tubes.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

attmci said:


> I believe one of the tubes in the pair you purchased may have an issue. Luckily, I don't have severe channel imbalance issue for any pairs of my power tubes.


Precisely! That's exactly what happened.


----------



## jbua5150

attmci said:


> ECC35 + 421A or 5998 may bring more enjoyable time to you. just my 2c.


Don't have any ECC35 or 421a.  yet..... 
I have Tung Sol BGRP 6SL7, TS BGRP 6C8G and also TS BGRP 6SU7.  I believe they are similar to ECC35 (except for the 6C8G).
I do own/enjoy a pair of Tung Sol 5998, and I find the Tung Sol 7236 to be VERY similar.
I am blessed to have many tubes, and I enjoy various combos in tandem with various headphone pairing. 
Tonight its USAF-596 + Tung Sol 6SU7GTY + Tung Sol 5998.


----------



## nephilim32

jbua5150 said:


> Don't have any ECC35 or 421a.  yet.....
> I have Tung Sol BGRP 6SL7, TS BGRP 6C8G and also TS BGRP 6SU7.  I believe they are similar to ECC35 (except for the 6C8G).
> I do own/enjoy a pair of Tung Sol 5998, and I find the Tung Sol 7236 to be VERY similar.
> I am blessed to have many tubes, and I enjoy various combos in tandem with various headphone pairing.
> Tonight its USAF-596 + Tung Sol 6SU7GTY + Tung Sol 5998.


I’m starting to feel that the USAF 596 reminds me of a winged Angel. The grounding wire leads look like an outlined wingspan. Lol. It is an awesome tube. I hope to have one some day.


----------



## Adnan Firoze (Aug 2, 2022)

Just received an amazing rectifier. Very fast -  hits even harder than the USAF 596. It's the GEC U 52. Dubstep Girl lists it as #2 on her famous rectifier rankings. More thorough impressions to come and comparison with USAF 596, Mullard/Cossor GZ37 Fat bottle, Brimar 5Z4GY, Tung Sol 5R4GY. Turns out I have all NOS rectifiers. When I save up some money (which I do not foresee), will try out the new production tubes.


----------



## nephilim32

Adnan Firoze said:


> Just received an amazing rectifier. Very fast - even hits harder than the USAF 596. It's the GEC U52. Dubstep Girl lists it as her #2 in famous rectifier rankings. More thorough impressions to come and comparison with USAF 596, Mullard/Cossor GZ37 Fat bottle, Brimar 5Z4GY, Tung Sol 5R4GY. Turns out I have all NOS rectifiers. When I save up some money (which I do not foresee), will try out the new production tubes.


Beauty, man. Keep us posted. You are definitely doing well. I’m still burning in my all Soviet line up. No tube swapping for me just yet. I’m loving the sound though. Hard to imagine certain selected tubes can make what I’m already hearing, better. Looking forward to those discoveries though.


----------



## CAJames (Aug 2, 2022)

Adnan Firoze said:


> Just received an amazing rectifier. Very fast -  hits even harder than the USAF 596. It's the GEC U 52. Dubstep Girl lists it as #2 on her famous rectifier rankings. More thorough impressions to come and comparison with USAF 596, Mullard/Cossor GZ37 Fat bottle, Brimar 5Z4GY, Tung Sol 5R4GY. Turns out I have all NOS rectifiers. When I save up some money (which I do not foresee), will try out the new production tubes.


Very nice. I took advantage of the favorable exchange rate to grab a Cossor 53KU (#3 on the list, if you're keep score) and it sounds fantastic. Paired with GEC A2293s and CV1135s.


----------



## duranxv

Adnan Firoze said:


> Just received an amazing rectifier. Very fast -  hits even harder than the USAF 596. It's the GEC U 52. Dubstep Girl lists it as #2 on her famous rectifier rankings. More thorough impressions to come and comparison with USAF 596, Mullard/Cossor GZ37 Fat bottle, Brimar 5Z4GY, Tung Sol 5R4GY. Turns out I have all NOS rectifiers. When I save up some money (which I do not foresee), will try out the new production tubes.



Nice! Did you get that from Tube Depot?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

If anyone's interested, one of my favorite 5U4G rectifiers - KR Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition is up for sale *HERE*.


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> If anyone's interested, one of my favorite 5U4G rectifiers - KR Audio 5U4G Riccardo Kron Anniversary Edition is up for sale *HERE*.



What made you end up selling it?


----------



## jbua5150

I scored some NOS 6C8G a few weeks back, and just Monday was able to have them tested.  These tested much stronger that the other 6C8G pairs I have, and sound amazing!  
Last night I ran with TS5998, TS6C8G, and Sylvania 274B.  
Sound was quite engaging, but the bass seemed just a bit round and slow.
Tonight I’ve rolled in a newly acquired USAF596 in place of the 274B, and the bass notes are now fast, full, and very present. 
Why did I listen to solid state so long?


----------



## Adnan Firoze

duranxv said:


> What made you end up selling it?


It's not him selling it as far as I know. He just graciously pointed out towards the awesome rectifier - and very hard to find.


----------



## Adnan Firoze

duranxv said:


> Nice! Did you get that from Tube Depot?


Ohh no no. I got it from a guy in England. Tube Depot doesn't have this obscure of a tube though they have great stuff and amazing service (a bit pricier than Brent Jessee though).


----------



## ColSaulTigh

duranxv said:


> What made you end up selling it?


I'm not selling it.  I'm saying that I love this rectifier, and someone else is selling my "immortal beloved", too.

Check my signature, it's what I'm currently running in my Woo WA5-LE.


----------



## duranxv

ColSaulTigh said:


> I'm not selling it.  I'm saying that I love this rectifier, and someone else is selling my "immortal beloved", too.
> 
> Check my signature, it's what I'm currently running in my Woo WA5-LE.



Ah ok


----------



## Thaddy

'tater masher acquired.  It's so ugly


----------



## 9bphillips

If I have a power outage with my wa22 will it mess anything up?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Not really, but if it's on, you could pop a tube.  Use some form of surge protector.  Or even better, a UPS w/battery backup.


----------



## jbua5150 (Aug 7, 2022)

If it’s just a power outage, you should be fine.  Surges, brownouts, etc can cause issues with gear. 
In conversations I’ve had with Mike at Woo Audio, he recommend plugging the amp directly to the wall, bypassing any power conditioning.

There is actually a video from Woo Audio about this.


----------



## 9bphillips

jbua5150 said:


> If it’s just a power outage, you should be fine.  Surges, brownouts, etc can cause issues with gear.
> In conversations I’ve had with Mike at Woo Audio, he recommend plugging the amp directly to the wall, bypassing any power conditioning.
> 
> There is actually a video from Woo Audio about this.



I have mine plugged directly into the wall. That's good to hear that a power outage can't hurt the wa22 except maybe blowing a tube.


----------



## jbua5150

Thaddy said:


> 'tater masher acquired.  It's so ugly


Any impressions on sound quality?


----------



## Badas

jbua5150 said:


> If it’s just a power outage, you should be fine.  Surges, brownouts, etc can cause issues with gear.
> In conversations I’ve had with Mike at Woo Audio, he recommend plugging the amp directly to the wall, bypassing any power conditioning.
> 
> There is actually a video from Woo Audio about this.



Why would he say this?

Electronics love constant clean power supply. Especially tubes. 

Mine has always been plugged into a conditioner. 
I did try direct into wall. There was no sound difference/advantage so back into conditioner it went.


----------



## mab1376

Badas said:


> Why would he say this?
> 
> Electronics love constant clean power supply. Especially tubes.
> 
> ...


Conditioners are supposed to fix a problem; if none exists, it only introduces variables. The products have their own fuses for surges, and a sudden outage is no different than yanking the plug.

That's my perspective on what he said; maybe email him if you disagree for clarity.


----------



## 9bphillips (Aug 7, 2022)

Does anyone know anything about these tubes? Tung-Sol Jan CTL VT-231 6SN7 GT Black Beauty?


----------



## Badas

9bphillips said:


> Does anyone know anything about these tubes? Tung-Sol Jan CTL VT-231 6SN7 GT Black Beauty?


Probably the best driver tubes available. TunG-Sol round plates.
Be careful there is a flat plate version not as great.

I use the round plate in a different glass and with a grid wire. 6SN7 and 6F8G roundplate versions sound identical.


----------



## Badas

mab1376 said:


> Conditioners are supposed to fix a problem; if none exists, it only introduces variables. The products have their own fuses for surges, and a sudden outage is no different than yanking the plug.
> 
> That's my perspective on what he said; maybe email him if you disagree for clarity.


It doesn't make sense. 
Most countries power voltage is crap. Especially the US. 
Voltage swings. It can't be helped. 
Voltage swings are not going to play nice with tubes. Hence power conditioning to the rescue.


----------



## 9bphillips

Badas said:


> Probably the best driver tubes available. TunG-Sol round plates.
> Be careful there is a flat plate version not as great.
> 
> I use the round plate in a different glass and with a grid wire. 6SN7 and 6F8G roundplate versions sound identical.


I use mullard ecc35 6sl7 and they are great. I'm looking for something different to try out. I'm assuming these would be different from what I've read. The ts vt 231 I had in the picture said horseshoe topped. I was told that was the round plate version.


----------



## Thaddy

jbua5150 said:


> Any impressions on sound quality?


First impressions are that it sounds a bit "loose" on the low end.  It didn't impress me from the get-go but I try to give my NOS tubes plenty of brain burn-in before deciding if they'll be stashed away with my stock tubes or not.  One thing that did stand out is it must run at very conservative voltages because I could barely see any glow from the heater element.


----------



## mab1376

Badas said:


> It doesn't make sense.
> Most countries power voltage is crap. Especially the US.
> Voltage swings. It can't be helped.
> Voltage swings are not going to play nice with tubes. Hence power conditioning to the rescue.


Power supplies have large capacitors to account for this and smooth voltage before it hits the tubes.

https://www.analogethos.com/post/power-supply

I'm no electrical engineer, but Mike at Woo is, so maybe see what he says.


----------



## Badas

mab1376 said:


> Power supplies have large capacitors to account for this and smooth voltage before it hits the tubes.
> 
> https://www.analogethos.com/post/power-supply
> 
> I'm no electrical engineer, but Mike at Woo is, so maybe see what he says.



Nah! I'm keeping mine plugged in a conditioner no matter what. Peace of mind. 

Plus my tubes kind of prove it. Installed in 2014. Used 20 hours per week and still going strong.


----------



## Badas

9bphillips said:


> I use mullard ecc35 6sl7 and they are great. I'm looking for something different to try out. I'm assuming these would be different from what I've read. The ts vt 231 I had in the picture said horseshoe topped. I was told that was the round plate version.



The ones in the pic are definitely round plates. First thing I looked at. 
Very, very nice tubes.


----------



## 9bphillips

Badas said:


> The ones in the pic are definitely round plates. First thing I looked at.
> Very, very nice tubes.


How can you tell its round plates? I'm a newbie in the tube world so forgive me! Lol


----------



## Badas (Aug 8, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> How can you tell its round plates? I'm a newbie in the tube world so forgive me! Lol


Look at the plates. They are in the middle. Travelling up the tube horizontally.
They are round.
Others will be flat.
We would describe it as black round plates.
There is a thread somewhere that explains all the parts like plates, getters, grids, pins etc... I know. Another language.
If I find the thread I will post a link.


----------



## 9bphillips

Badas said:


> Look at the plates. They are in the middle. Travelling up the tube horizontally.
> They are round.
> Others will be flat.
> We would describe it as black round plates.
> ...


Plz do post it. That would help me out tremendously!


----------



## Thaddy

9bphillips said:


> Plz do post it. That would help me out tremendously!


I think this is actually a decent video that might help:


----------



## jbua5150 (Aug 9, 2022)

So today I decided to go further down the tube rabbit hole.....
I noticed that on the Woo Audio Tube Compatibility Chart that a 6CG7 is listed as compatible driver in place of 6SN7 (with adapter of course)
I looked on eBay and found several pairs of different grid construction and country of manufacture with very low prices!
In the interest of personal audio exploration, I purchased 1 pair of Tung-Sol 6FQ7, 1 pair Tung-Sol 6CG7, 2 different 6CG7 pairs from Japan (one pair I think is Hitachi), a pair of US made Marconi 6CG7. and a pair of cheap-o adapters and the total was just over $150!
I am anxious to roll some of these and hear what they may sound like! 
Has anyone rolled these tubes and have any insight?

Edit: I have pair of Hitachi 6SN7 that I quite enjoy.  I'm hoping the Japan made tubes sound similar


----------



## CAJames (Aug 9, 2022)

So the 6CG7 is electrically the same as a 6SN7 in a 9 pin package. I don’t think they are as good as the “real” octal base tubes in my WA22 but they sound good instead of a 6DJ8 in my speaker amps. FWIW some of the most desirable are RCA clear tops (side getter) and the RCA black plates.


----------



## jbua5150

Upon installing my new MELZ, I found them to have a bit too much treble sparkle. They seemed fatiguing after a short listening session.
I was using TS5998, MELZ 6N8S, and USAF-596.
A few tube swaps later and I've found a couple nice combos.
RCA 6AS7, MELZ 6N8S, CV593 was quite a bit fuller, less brittle sound. Much more listenable.
Next, I swapped in JAN-CHA-6080WB and WOW! Juicy fat bass, full mids, and clear treble. Just lacks a little umph. (I like to Iisten loud) 
Now, I'm on JAN-CHA-6080WB, MELZ 6N8S, USAF-596. This combo is the best so far. Runs a bit hotter though.
As I recall, these JAN-CHA-6080W used to be noisy, but nothing tonight. Dead quiet, and wonderful sound.
Fun stuff!!


----------



## JAFHIFI90

deutscherhififan said:


> Funny, I am using the WA22 with LCD-XC’s as well. Would love open back ‘phones, but this is my escape when the wife watches annoying cooking shows… 😳


Stunning appearance! Can you name these upgraded tubes on stock.


----------



## nephilim32

Thaddy said:


> 'tater masher acquired.  It's so ugly


I disagree. Looks unique and cool. 


mab1376 said:


> Conditioners are supposed to fix a problem; if none exists, it only introduces variables. The products have their own fuses for surges, and a sudden outage is no different than yanking the plug.
> 
> That's my perspective on what he said; maybe email him if you disagree for clarity.


I use an AC regenerator, so I guess that puts me in a different camp, but I’d imagine any kind of power treatment a surge protector is so important. Lightning is damn powerful. 


jbua5150 said:


> So today I decided to go further down the tube rabbit hole.....
> I noticed that on the Woo Audio Tube Compatibility Chart that a 6CG7 is listed as compatible driver in place of 6SN7 (with adapter of course)
> I looked on eBay and found several pairs of different grid construction and country of manufacture with very low prices!
> In the interest of personal audio exploration, I purchased 1 pair of Tung-Sol 6FQ7, 1 pair Tung-Sol 6CG7, 2 different 6CG7 pairs from Japan (one pair I think is Hitachi), a pair of US made Marconi 6CG7. and a pair of cheap-o adapters and the total was just over $150!
> ...


This is amazing. I’d love if you could keep me posted on your findings. Nice haul.


----------



## nephilim32

So just a small update my friends. I’m still using my all “Soviet lineup “ of tubes in my WA 22, which are the 6AS7G (NOS, Sovtek), 6SN7GTB (New production, Tungsol)
5AR4 (New Production, Sovtek) 

I’m close to 80hrs on these and I’m just loving it. The tubes themselves have definitely broken in and sound absolutely magnificent with my HD 800’s. At first, they didn’t ! I’m also still using the LCD XC with this tube set mostly. I’m completely happy with the midrange boost and clarity my XC’s have given because of the WA 22 in general. 

I’m using the dual 3 pin XLR headphone out for both headphones and of course the balanced section of the amp sounds best. I’m getting that wonderful, dead silent background with some of that lovely euphonic tube sound we all know and love. 

Maybe next week I’ll start tube swapping, but for now I just can’t take the Soviet line up out yet. I’m so enamored with there sound character. 

All is still well. The WA 22 was a great purchase on my end and of course I still have much to explore because 80 hrs is nothing.


----------



## hackstu

Just returned to using the stock 6080s, and noticed the amp gets superhot after say 3 hours of listening. Am I slowly damaging the amp?


----------



## nephilim32

hackstu said:


> Just returned to using the stock 6080s, and noticed the amp gets superhot after say 3 hours of listening. Am I slowly damaging the amp?


I would say no. The WA 22 has a very interesting design for heat treatment. 
If you look at the top corners of the amp and touch it you’ll notice that portion of the amp doesn’t get hot. All in all I think your fine. Just make sure that your entire set of tubes are with in voltage/amperage  spec.


----------



## hackstu

I'm more concerned with internal components capacitors etc...


----------



## CAJames

I don't remember where I saw it, probably in the manual, but it said not to run the WA22 for more than 4 hours without a break. That is advise that I (usually) live by, and would probably be a good idea if you're worried about heat.


----------



## jbua5150 (Aug 14, 2022)

hackstu said:


> Just returned to using the stock 6080s, and noticed the amp gets superhot after say 3 hours of listening. Am I slowly damaging the amp?


I have found that the power tubes drastically affect the overall heat of my WA22.
When I have my 6080 or 7236 tubes in the amp gets much warmer than say with my 5998 or 6AS7.
According to the Woo Audio manual the amp should be allowed to completely cool down after 8 hours of continuous use.
While my WA22 can get quite warm, it’s not what I’d call hot.
As a point of reference, my Schiit Freya+ preamp gets MUCH hotter than the WA22.


----------



## nephilim32

hackstu said:


> Just returned to using the stock 6080s, and noticed the amp gets superhot after say 3 hours of listening. Am I slowly damaging the amp?


I would say no. The WA 22 has a very interesting design for heat treatment. 
If you look at the top corners of the amp and touch it you’ll notice that portion of the amp doesn’t get hot. All in all I think your fine. Just make sure that your entire set of tubes are with in voltage/amperage  spec.



CAJames said:


> I don't remember where I saw it, probably in the manual, but it said not to run the WA22 for more than 4 hours without a break. That is advise that I (usually) live by, and would probably be a good idea if you're worried about heat.


It is actually 8hrs.


----------



## nephilim32

hackstu said:


> I'm more concerned with internal components capacitors etc...


I wouldn’t be. The WA 22 uses solid high grade materials/components  and it is point to point wiring. Less risk with that kind of circuitry design for failure like a blown coupling capacitor, which is really the capacitor that one would be most concerned about in an amp design such as the WA 22. 
Overall man. Don’t worry. Just enjoy. I had a great 4hrs with mine today. It is a beautiful amp.


----------



## Badas

hackstu said:


> Just returned to using the stock 6080s, and noticed the amp gets superhot after say 3 hours of listening. Am I slowly damaging the amp?


I find that the hotter my amp gets the better it sounds.
I'm serious.
Mine sounds like that angels have touched it after the 3 hour mark. When the amp is hot. Hot not burning. 

My WA22 is a 2014 model and has been used hard. Without any concerns. So just use dude. Don't worry about heat.


----------



## mab1376

For some reason, the amp runs cool with 5998 tubes


----------



## nephilim32

mab1376 said:


> For some reason, the amp runs cool with 5998 tubes


Okay, how cool are we talking about here? 🤓
Lets be realistic.


----------



## KZCloud89

mab1376 said:


> For some reason, the amp runs cool with 5998 tubes


I have the WA22 1st gen and been using TS5998/7236 for many years.  Recently been using GEC/Mullard 6080 with high sensitivity headphones and don't notice any difference in amount of heat generated.  I'm about 4 feet from the amp but never noticed the heat.  And yeah they're definitely NOT running cool as noted @nephilim32.


----------



## mab1376

nephilim32 said:


> Okay, how cool are we talking about here? 🤓
> Lets be realistic.


I havent measured, but relatively 6080 runs much hotter.

In a 70f room

I'd guess 5998 is maybe 85-90f 
6080 feels like 115-120f


----------



## muckyfingers

I recently picked up a couple of new Sino 6AS7G's and a couple of new LinLai 6SN7's, so far so good. They are quiet and aesthetically pleasing. I'll do more listening this weekend.


----------



## nephilim32

muckyfingers said:


> I recently picked up a couple of new Sino 6AS7G's and a couple of new LinLai 6SN7's, so far so good. They are quiet and aesthetically pleasing. I'll do more listening this weekend.


That looks amazing. Also I love the 6AS7G power tubes (6N13S or 6N13Jp equivalents) 
Definitely my best looking tubes in my current set right now. And nice photo, sir. 
Also, where did you get those balanced (4 XLR) dust port protectors? Very stylish when not in use.


----------



## jbua5150 (Aug 20, 2022)

After losing an auction for a pair of WE421a, I made myself feel better with these. I’m a happy camper


----------



## nephilim32

jbua5150 said:


> After loosing an auction for a pair of WE421a, I made myself feel better with these. I’m a happy camper


Well I mean both the 421A and 5998 allow for more power and gain if that is what you are after. I think you did awesome. So many WA22 owners worship the 5998. 
I hope someday to try them in place of my 6AS7G’s. 
I know they aren’t cheap though.


----------



## jbua5150

nephilim32 said:


> Well I mean both the 421A and 5998 allow for more power and gain if that is what you are after. I think you did awesome. So many WA22 owners worship the 5998.
> I hope someday to try them in place of my 6AS7G’s.
> I know they aren’t cheap though.


I have a few different power tubes 6AS7, 2 different 6080, 2 different 7236, and the 5998 (no Russian or European) 
To my ears the 5998 are the best. The TS 7236 are VERY close to the 5998 and can be found for much cheaper. 
For me, the Tung Sol 7236 and 5998 are all I’ll ever need.  
I’ve also just received a backup pair of TS 7236, so now I have spares of each if/when they fail.


----------



## Thaddy

Western Electric 421A = Tung-Sol 5998.  The top getter 5998's seem to be a bit cheaper than the bottom & top getter variants, but to me they sound the same (I have both).


----------



## jbua5150

Thaddy said:


> Western Electric 421A = Tung-Sol 5998.  The top getter 5998's seem to be a bit cheaper than the bottom & top getter variants, but to me they sound the same (I have both).


I asked for the bottom getter(so I could compare to the top getter pair I already have), there were none in stock 
Thanks for the information about them sounding the same. 
Maybe I can stop trying to get a pair……


----------



## nephilim32

jbua5150 said:


> I have a few different power tubes 6AS7, 2 different 6080, 2 different 7236, and the 5998 (no Russian or European)
> To my ears the 5998 are the best. The TS 7236 are VERY close to the 5998 and can be found for much cheaper.
> For me, the Tung Sol 7236 and 5998 are all I’ll ever need.
> I’ve also just received a backup pair of TS 7236, so now I have spares of each if/when they fail.


Those are very nice impressions. Thank you. I’m amazed how much character tubes have in general. You really gotta sit with them and get some hrs on them.


----------



## Thaddy

jbua5150 said:


> I asked for the bottom getter(so I could compare to the top getter pair I already have), there were none in stock
> Thanks for the information about them sounding the same.
> Maybe I can stop trying to get a pair……


The getter was only used at the end of the manufacturing process of the tube and doesn't impact the sound at all.


----------



## 9bphillips

Really digging the Atrium with the wa22!


----------



## hackstu (Aug 21, 2022)

I have just ordered up some amptata octal 8 pin socket savers, so as I under stand these will work with both 6as7/6080 and 6sn7 tube types as well as 5u4g rectifiers?? On my WA22?


----------



## VanHai

hackstu said:


> I have just ordered up some amptata octal 8 pin socket savers, so as I under stand these will work with both 6as7/6080 and 6sn7 tube types as well as 5u4g rectifiers?? On my WA22?


Yes, they will work with all those tubes.


----------



## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> Really digging the Atrium with the wa22!


That looks absolutely beautiful. Pure class. I love it and I’m hearing around the community those Atrium’s are the real deal.


----------



## Thaddy (Aug 22, 2022)

nephilim32 said:


> That looks absolutely beautiful. Pure class. I love it and I’m hearing around the community those Atrium’s are the real deal.


It’s a very good combination.  The WA22 isn't extremely "tubey" sounding but adds just enough warmth to be enjoyable.  The key is to find quiet tubes.


----------



## 9bphillips (Aug 22, 2022)

nephilim32 said:


> That looks absolutely beautiful. Pure class. I love it and I’m hearing around the community those Atrium’s are the real deal.


The Atrium seriously is the real deal. They are not only beautiful but they have a seriously addicting sound unlike most totl headphones on the market. The Atrium has the best mids I've heard,  realistic and forward vocals, powerful bass, very dynamic sound , highs aren't fatiguing at all, and a analog/organic timbre that just sucks you in! The Atrium is different than most totl cans out now because they arent super detailed. Its all about that timbre that is just intoxicating! Combined with the Wa22 it is just great! As Thaddy said the wa22 brings just enough warmth to the table without sounding to tubey. I am using eml5u4g mesh, we421a, and mullard ecc35 6sl7 and the tube combo is very dynamic and powerful,  clean and detailed with some warmth. It goes perfectly with my Atrium and VC! Highly recommended!


----------



## muckyfingers

nephilim32 said:


> That looks amazing. Also I love the 6AS7G power tubes (6N13S or 6N13Jp equivalents)
> Definitely my best looking tubes in my current set right now. And nice photo, sir.
> Also, where did you get those balanced (4 XLR) dust port protectors? Very stylish when not in use.



The covers are available on Amazon in pairs of 2 from the link HERE

It won't fit the 4 Pin XLR port as is, you have to remove the ground plug from the inside by rocking it back and forth with some pliers. Once you've removed the plug, you have to line the inside with a little electrical tape in order to get a snug fit, otherwise it is too loose and falls out. I'm sure other tape would work, but I had electrical tape handy and used that.


----------



## nephilim32

muckyfingers said:


> The covers are available on Amazon in pairs of 2 from the link HERE
> 
> It won't fit the 4 Pin XLR port as is, you have to remove the ground plug from the inside by rocking it back and forth with some pliers. Once you've removed the plug, you have to line the inside with a little electrical tape in order to get a snug fit, otherwise it is too loose and falls out. I'm sure other tape would work, but I had electrical tape handy and used that.


Thank you so much. That is extremely helpful. Really appreciate this. I will look into this. 😎


----------



## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> The Atrium seriously is the real deal. They are not only beautiful but they have a seriously addicting sound unlike most totl headphones on the market. The Atrium has the best mids I've heard,  realistic and forward vocals, powerful bass, very dynamic sound , highs aren't fatiguing at all, and a analog/organic timbre that just sucks you in! The Atrium is different than most totl cans out now because they arent super detailed. Its all about that timbre that is just intoxicating! Combined with the Wa22 it is just great! As Thaddy said the wa22 brings just enough warmth to the table without sounding to tubey. I am using eml5u4g mesh, we421a, and mullard ecc35 6sl7 and the tube combo is very dynamic and powerful,  clean and detailed with some warmth. It goes perfectly with my Atrium and VC! Highly recommended!


I’m really happy for you. I can tell by your feelings that the Atrium was really worth the cash and that you may keep them for a while. I might be closing in on a pair of HD 820’s, so I’m hoping I experience the same joy as you with getting a new headphone period.  
Also, I gotta say my WA 22 sounds warm as hell. Of course I got that silent background we all love from quality tubes and that has given my HD 800 and LCD XC some character and new life. Loving it!! All hail Woo 22!!


----------



## 9bphillips

nephilim32 said:


> I’m really happy for you. I can tell by your feelings that the Atrium was really worth the cash and that you may keep them for a while. I might be closing in on a pair of HD 820’s, so I’m hoping I experience the same joy as you with getting a new headphone period.
> Also, I gotta say my WA 22 sounds warm as hell. Of course I got that silent background we all love from quality tubes and that has given my HD 800 and LCD XC some character and new life. Loving it!! All hail Woo 22!!


Thanks my friend! Yes there is something about ZMF headphones and tubes that are seriously magical. The tonality of their cans just vibe with tubes. I had the lcd x and I enjoyed it with the wa22 but they were nothing compared to my Verite Closed and Atrium with the wa22. I honestly couldn't pick a favorite between the Verite Closed and Atrium. They both have great synergy with the wa22! I want be selling my wa22 or ZMF cans at all!


----------



## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> Thanks my friend! Yes there is something about ZMF headphones and tubes that are seriously magical. The tonality of their cans just vibe with tubes. I had the lcd x and I enjoyed it with the wa22 but they were nothing compared to my Verite Closed and Atrium with the wa22. I honestly couldn't pick a favorite between the Verite Closed and Atrium. They both have great synergy with the wa22! I want be selling my wa22 or ZMF cans at all!


I’m in the same boat. My WA 22 is here to stay much like those HD 800’s I have had for 11 years. 😳. 
Anyhow, I like the concept and business model by Zach + Bevhan Meurbach. Zach is really into material science and I like that he’s a designer/engineer that is around my age. Given all the descriptions of his headphone tuning the ZMF Atrium would probably really fit my sound preferences and I love that they would be so different than my HD 800 and LCD XC’s. 
I honestly think that ZMF headphones are the American Meze’s in-terms of upscale design and comfort. 
It would be cool if Woo would associate more with ZMF, however that wouldn’t be in the cards since ZMF have their own tube amps as well. Lol.


----------



## 9bphillips

nephilim32 said:


> I’m in the same boat. My WA 22 is here to stay much like those HD 800’s I have had for 11 years. 😳.
> Anyhow, I like the concept and business model by Zach + Bevhan Meurbach. Zach is really into material science and I like that he’s a designer/engineer that is around my age. Given all the descriptions of his headphone tuning the ZMF Atrium would probably really fit my sound preferences and I love that they would be so different than my HD 800 and LCD XC’s.
> I honestly think that ZMF headphones are the American Meze’s in-terms of upscale design and comfort.
> It would be cool if Woo would associate more with ZMF, however that wouldn’t be in the cards since ZMF have their own tube amps as well. Lol.


I agree. I love Zach and Bevin's approach to the way they do business. They are very involved with their products and customers. They have some of the best customer support I've ever seen. I have owned the lcd x and yes the Atrium is a different headphone for sure. I think the Atrium would contrast your headphones for sure because it is way more musical than your other cans. I doubt woo and ZMF would ever be a tandem especially now that ZMF has started carrying Cayin tube amps and dacs.


----------



## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> I agree. I love Zach and Bevin's approach to the way they do business. They are very involved with their products and customers. They have some of the best customer support I've ever seen. I have owned the lcd x and yes the Atrium is a different headphone for sure. I think the Atrium would contrast your headphones for sure because it is way more musical than your other cans. I doubt woo and ZMF would ever be a tandem especially now that ZMF has started carrying Cayin tube amps and dacs.


Some terrific points here and of course I agree. ZMF is worth exploring! I mean are you kidding me man? I’d love to have an Atrium with my WA 22. 
I know that would be magic. If the WA 22 made my other headphones have incredible new life and character, then I have no doubt the Atrium would be a terrific fit. That and the D 8000. 

All in all. Clean power and quality tubes gets you so far in amplification. Very very important stuff.


----------



## skhan007

Just heard the Woo Audio WA22 for the first time today, at a great Head-Fi meet. OK...WOW. 

I listened with my own ZMF Auteur and what a match it was. The owner had all NOS tubes, which was great. I can definitely put this amp on my must-have list. I was somehow under the (false) impression that an amp with an OT was somehow going to lessen my experience, as the OTL amps are highly regarded (and mostly what I'm used to hearing). This amp was truly something special and amazing.

A couple of questions: I would like to believe that in addition to 5998 tubes in the power section, I can also sub in 6as7g and 6080? Also, how common are the Gen 2 WA22 amps found on the used market? I can really see myself being happy for a long, long, time with this amp.


----------



## nephilim32

skhan007 said:


> Just heard the Woo Audio WA22 for the first time today, at a great Head-Fi meet. OK...WOW.
> 
> I listened with my own ZMF Auteur and what a match it was. The owner had all NOS tubes, which was great. I can definitely put this amp on my must-have list. I was somehow under the (false) impression that an amp with an OT was somehow going to lessen my experience, as the OTL amps are highly regarded (and mostly what I'm used to hearing). This amp was truly something special and amazing.
> 
> A couple of questions: I would like to believe that in addition to 5998 tubes in the power section, I can also sub in 6as7g and 6080? Also, how common are the Gen 2 WA22 amps found on the used market? I can really see myself being happy for a long, long, time with this amp.


To answer your question. Yes. 6AS7G and 6080 tubes are highly compatible and recommended tubes from Woo Audio. 
Glad you had such a nice experience with the amp. It is worth getting. Best amp I’ve got right now. Really added new life and character to my headphones.


----------



## 9bphillips

skhan007 said:


> Just heard the Woo Audio WA22 for the first time today, at a great Head-Fi meet. OK...WOW.
> 
> I listened with my own ZMF Auteur and what a match it was. The owner had all NOS tubes, which was great. I can definitely put this amp on my must-have list. I was somehow under the (false) impression that an amp with an OT was somehow going to lessen my experience, as the OTL amps are highly regarded (and mostly what I'm used to hearing). This amp was truly something special and amazing.
> 
> A couple of questions: I would like to believe that in addition to 5998 tubes in the power section, I can also sub in 6as7g and 6080? Also, how common are the Gen 2 WA22 amps found on the used market? I can really see myself being happy for a long, long, time with this amp.


Haha! The wa22 is an amazing amp. Keep an eye on the classifieds. I have seen them there several times for good prices. I chose the wa22 because I had low impedance planar and high impedance dynamic driver.  Otl's don't play well with low impedance planar. I am using my wa22 with we421a, mullard ecc35 6sl7 brown base, and eml5u4g mesh. It sounds outstanding with my ZMF Verite Closed and Atrium! The wa22 is a tube rollers delight too. It sounds great with stock tubes but gets really really good when you upgrade tubes as you heard today. I don't regret buying the wa22 at all!


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## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> Haha! The wa22 is an amazing amp. Keep an eye on the classifieds. I have seen them there several times for good prices. I chose the wa22 because I had low impedance planar and high impedance dynamic driver.  Otl's don't play well with low impedance planar. I am using my wa22 with we421a, mullard ecc35 6sl7 brown base, and eml5u4g mesh. It sounds outstanding with my ZMF Verite Closed and Atrium! The wa22 is a tube rollers delight too. It sounds great with stock tubes but gets really really good when you upgrade tubes as you heard today. I don't regret buying the wa22 at all!


Well said, Phillips. You are exactly right. I’m putting the Atrium in a class of headphones I may want to buy to take over the reigns as my number 1 headphone, which is currently held by the HD 800’s. That headphone sounds incredible with my WA 22. So grateful, but we always want more!!!


----------



## 9bphillips

nephilim32 said:


> Well said, Phillips. You are exactly right. I’m putting the Atrium in a class of headphones I may want to buy to take over the reigns as my number 1 headphone, which is currently held by the HD 800’s. That headphone sounds incredible with my WA 22. So grateful, but we always want more!!!


Yes we do! Lol. It's a never ending thing but so enjoyable. I honestly don't see how anyone couldn't love the Atrium, especially with the wa22! The Atrium has such a fun and agreeable sound. When I first got into this hobby i based what I wanted off of what I heard from others and many of them talked about detail this and detail that. I thought the objective was to hear the slightest little sound. I have come to find out that for me detail isn't something I have to have a ton of. I do like detail but I don't want a headphone with detail overload. I have come to find out I enjoy timbre and musicality more. I don't care about analyzing my music. I think that is why I love the Atrium and the WA22 so much. the sound signature is so easy to listen to but not in a soft way on the Atrium. It is very dynamic and will knock your socks off actually. The beautiful mids are another reason why its such an easy listen. The mids are where the music lives after all! I think you will find that the Atrium and Hd800's are on opposite ends of the spectrum. They are both great headphones that do things in a completely different way.


----------



## 9bphillips

Is xlr better that rca on the wa22 or are they about equal?


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## VanHai

9bphillips said:


> Is xlr better that rca on the wa22 or are they about equal?


Woo Audio recommends to use XLR over RCA for WA22 if you can.


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## CAJames

9bphillips said:


> Is xlr better that rca on the wa22 or are they about equal?


Since the WA22 is fully balanced you aren’t really getting your monies worth if you aren’t using a balanced source, IMO.


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## skhan007

nephilim32 said:


> To answer your question. Yes. 6AS7G and 6080 tubes are highly compatible and recommended tubes from Woo Audio.
> Glad you had such a nice experience with the amp. It is worth getting. Best amp I’ve got right now. Really added new life and character to my headphones.





9bphillips said:


> Haha! The wa22 is an amazing amp. Keep an eye on the classifieds. I have seen them there several times for good prices. I chose the wa22 because I had low impedance planar and high impedance dynamic driver.  Otl's don't play well with low impedance planar. I am using my wa22 with we421a, mullard ecc35 6sl7 brown base, and eml5u4g mesh. It sounds outstanding with my ZMF Verite Closed and Atrium! The wa22 is a tube rollers delight too. It sounds great with stock tubes but gets really really good when you upgrade tubes as you heard today. I don't regret buying the wa22 at all!


Thank you, Gents. I was very impressed with the WA22 and now I'm going to search for a Generation 2. If any of you are aware of one for sale (besides the Head-Fi Classifieds) or are thinking of selling yours, please let me know. 

I already own pairs of NOS GEC 6080, Chatham 6as7g, and (my favorite) Tung Sol 5998. I suppose I can use stock driver and rectifier tubes until I find good pricing for vintage tubes in those positions.


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## muckyfingers (Sep 3, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> Is xlr better that rca on the wa22 or are they about equal?


The benefit comes from using a balanced DAC, or source as an input.

All three headphone outputs are wired in parallel, meaning they’re all providing the exact same signal. There isn’t a benefit in using the balanced outputs vs the 1/4”, other than convenience, cable preferences, or cable quality.

edit: This is with experience/measurement on my Gen 1 WA22 without phase splitter.


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## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> Yes we do! Lol. It's a never ending thing but so enjoyable. I honestly don't see how anyone couldn't love the Atrium, especially with the wa22! The Atrium has such a fun and agreeable sound. When I first got into this hobby i based what I wanted off of what I heard from others and many of them talked about detail this and detail that. I thought the objective was to hear the slightest little sound. I have come to find out that for me detail isn't something I have to have a ton of. I do like detail but I don't want a headphone with detail overload. I have come to find out I enjoy timbre and musicality more. I don't care about analyzing my music. I think that is why I love the Atrium and the WA22 so much. the sound signature is so easy to listen to but not in a soft way on the Atrium. It is very dynamic and will knock your socks off actually. The beautiful mids are another reason why its such an easy listen. The mids are where the music lives after all! I think you will find that the Atrium and Hd800's are on opposite ends of the spectrum. They are both great headphones that do things in a completely different way.


Oh absolutely. The Atrium is quite far removed from the HD 800’s. May have similar voice could since they’re both 300Ohms, but bio cellulose drivers are definitely different than orthodynamic. 
Phillips. I love it all! Really enjoy the appreciable differences in sound. Currently I have the Sony MDR Z7’s, LCD XC and of course my 11 year old general…the HD 800’s. 
You and I will keep exploring and like you my Woo is here to stay.


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## VanHai

This is my favorite combination for WA22. 

TS5998 tubes
TS 6SL7 tall tubes
Mullard GZ37 

It is getting harder and harder and more expensive to acquire the TS 5998 tubes , i was lucky to get additional 2 pairs as back up.


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## nephilim32

VanHai said:


> This is my favorite combination for WA22.
> 
> TS5998 tubes
> TS 6SL7 tall tubes
> ...


Hi friend. You’re absolutely right about that. The 5998 (especially Tungsol brand ) is hard to get at a reasonable cost. 
You’ve got a beautiful setup there. Just enjoy it. 
Also. I’m kind of excited I’m gonna finally do my first tube swap soon and it is going to be with the driver tube(s) section. Details and pics to come soon.


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## nephilim32

Hello all. Just wanted to ask a question for anyone interested. Do any of you use the Pre Amp section with your WA 22?

Last night I used it with my Burson Soloist with great success. I dial the WA 22 pre at about 60% of the volume pot, then adjust the main volume pot from the soloist as needed. Now that my tubes are broken in with terrific character, the pre amp section is really quite good!! 

Overall though. My favourite listening experience is using the WA 22 direct out of the dual 3pin XLR out. 
The WA 22 has some cool features. Hope everyone here is making use of them.


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## 9bphillips

nephilim32 said:


> Hello all. Just wanted to ask a question for anyone interested. Do any of you use the Pre Amp section with your WA 22?
> 
> Last night I used it with my Burson Soloist with great success. I dial the WA 22 pre at about 60% of the volume pot, then adjust the main volume pot from the soloist as needed. Now that my tubes are broken in with terrific character, the pre amp section is really quite good!!
> 
> ...


I used mine with the Soloist GT before I sold the GT. I enjoyed it with certain headphones like the lcd x. I prefer my ZMF cans straight out of the wa22. It is a cool feature to have to change things up a bit. I plan on getting another ss amp eventually and I'm sure I will use it when I do.


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## CAJames

nephilim32 said:


> Hello all. Just wanted to ask a question for anyone interested. Do any of you use the Pre Amp section with your WA 22?



Yes! In fact that was a big reason I bought it, to simplify my system with preamp and headphone amp in the same box.  I probably use my speakers more than my headphones today, but that will be changing as Mrs. CA approaches retirement.


----------



## drjerryyan

CAJames said:


> Yes! In fact that was a big reason I bought it, to simplify my system with preamp and headphone amp in the same box.  I probably use my speakers more than my headphones today, but that will be changing as Mrs. CA approaches retirement.


What amp do you use? What preAmp did you use before WA22?  I presume the WA22 does better?


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## CAJames

drjerryyan said:


> What amp do you use? What preAmp did you use before WA22?  I presume the WA22 does better?


 
It replaced an AR LS25 mk2, which was very good indeed IMO. The WA22 is every bit as good,  with a little more rich tubey goodness.

My amps are a pair of:

https://www.decwareproducts.com/se84ufo

configured as balanced monoblocs.


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## nephilim32

9bphillips said:


> I used mine with the Soloist GT before I sold the GT. I enjoyed it with certain headphones like the lcd x. I prefer my ZMF cans straight out of the wa22. It is a cool feature to have to change things up a bit. I plan on getting another ss amp eventually and I'm sure I will use it when I do.


I express the same enthusiasm as you. “I like to change things up a bit.” 
Yeah I’m like you. Love the differences.


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## skhan007

As a prospective buyer (having just heard the WA22 and loved it), what would you guys say about the WA2 vs WA22? The WA2 has also been recommended to me by someone. 

I don't know that the balanced/single-ended thing makes a difference to me. I think my DAC connected via RCA cables and my ZMF headphones with 1/4" terminals are good- Unless there's a compelling argument that things are $1000 better with balanced cables. I'm definitely interested in what you guys have to say.


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## CAJames

Balanced is a big deal to me. But if it doesn’t matter to you then I don’t see a compelling reason to spend the extra $$$ for a balanced amp.


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## skhan007

muckyfingers said:


> The benefit comes from using a balanced DAC, or source as an input.
> 
> All three headphone outputs are wired in parallel, meaning they’re all providing the exact same signal. There isn’t a benefit in using the balanced outputs vs the 1/4”, other than convenience, cable preferences, or cable quality.


This good to know. I just researched a bit and found this article (from a source that I really trust!) and noted that the balanced vs. single-ended headphone output may not matter, but the components (DAC to amp for example) could benefit from balanced due to higher voltages being utilized in a desirable way. Just as @muckyfingers has stated! I learned something new today, so thank you!

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...Z45MrwW1oW-qp9-A7m13hfoBAsVEn5DxoC9t0QAvD_BwE


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## CAJames (Aug 29, 2022)

muckyfingers said:


> The benefit comes from using a balanced DAC, or source as an input.
> 
> All three headphone outputs are wired in parallel, meaning they’re all providing the exact same signal. There isn’t a benefit in using the balanced outputs vs the 1/4”, other than convenience, cable preferences, or cable quality.



Disagree that 1/4" is _exactly _the same as the balanced, because (at least on mine) the balanced is twice as loud. I think the the 1/4" output is just the + phase of the balanced signal. Which goes back to your point about using a balanced DAC. And that is if the DAC is truly balanced (converts both + and - phases of the L and R channel) then differencing them at the headphones cancels out artifacts from the digital to analog conversion and (at least in theory) gives better performance.

I can only speak for myself but my DAC (Denafrips Terminator 2) sounds noticeably better using a fully balanced signal path to my headphones (or speakers) then anything else.


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## muckyfingers (Sep 3, 2022)

CAJames said:


> Disagree that 1/4" is _exactly _the same as the balanced, because (at least on mine) the balanced is twice as loud. I think the the 1/4" output is just the + phase of the balanced signal. Which goes back to your point about using a balanced DAC. And that is if the DAC is truly balanced (converts both + and - phases of the L and R channel) then differencing them at the headphones cancels out artifacts from the digital to analog conversion and (at least in theory) gives better performance.
> 
> I can only speak for myself but my DAC (Denafrips Terminator 2) sounds noticeably better using a fully balanced signal path to my headphones (or speakers) then anything else.



If you have a 1st Generation WA22 without phase splitter, the balanced input will give you louder outputs across all  headphone connectors, the XLR out to the headphone will still be the same volume as the 1/4", again because they are wired in parallel. The RCA input will only use half the amplifier circuit, thus only giving you half the volume, even if using the XLR output.

On later Gen 1 models and on all Gen 2 models, Woo began using phase splitters on the RCA inputs, to give you the same volume as the Balanced input. You can still send in your 1st Generation unit for this upgrade, for about $350.

If you open up your unit, you can see that all the headphone connectors are wired together, they are the same signal. You can also double check this with a multimeter, there is nothing different from the XLR outputs and the 1/4" output, other than the connector itself.

edit: Phase Splitters were introduced in 2014, prior to the 2nd Generation WA22


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## CAJames (Aug 29, 2022)

I have a (very early) 2nd gen, and with balanced input the 1/4" output is clearly not as loud as the balanced output. Maybe there is a problem with mine, but in practice I only use balanced in and out so it is really only of academic interest to me. Regardless, I'll stop telling my "less output on the 1/4" output story." cuz your story makes sense.


----------



## muckyfingers

CAJames said:


> I have a (very early) 2nd gen, and with balanced input the 1/4" output is clearly not as loud as the balanced output. Maybe there is a problem with mine, but in practice I only use balanced in and out so it is really only of academic interest to me. Regardless, I'll stop telling my "less output on the 1/4" output story." cuz your story makes sense.


Maybe we’re both right and they changed the way the 1/4” output is wired once the phase splitter was introduced.


----------



## skhan007

Besides the phase splitter, are there noteworthy differences between WA22 Gen 1 and Gen 2?


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## muckyfingers (Sep 3, 2022)

The 1/4” output is flush with the faceplate rather than recessed and mounted with a nut, later Gen 1 models and Gen 2 models share this feature. 

Gen 2 models added the preamp outputs in the back.

Woo also switched to a smooth alps volume pot rather than the more expensive stepped attenuator volume pot found on older units. 

Newer and "better" transformers.


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## Badas (Aug 29, 2022)

muckyfingers said:


> The 1/4” output is flush with the faceplate rather than recessed and mounted with a nut. They added the preamp outputs in the back, which are the same as the front Dual XLR outputs, but routed to the back as well. Woo also switched to a smooth alps volume pot rather than the more expensive stepped attenuator volume pot found on older units. Other than those changes and the phase splitter, Woo says they’re the same.








So mine must be a hybrid between Gen 1 and 2 then? Purchased 2014.
Mine has 1/4 output flush mounted, stepped attenuator volume pot, but no XLR preamp output on the back.


----------



## muckyfingers

Badas said:


> So mine must be a hybrid between Gen 1 and 2 then? Purchased 2014.
> Mine has 1/4 output flush mounted, stepped attenuator volume pot, but no XLR preamp output on the back.


There were a couple of inbetween models, like Gen 1.5, if you will. They have the flush 1/4” output, none had the preamp in the back, but some did have holes with plugs where the preamp would be located in Gen 2 models.


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## CAJames

muckyfingers said:


> Maybe we’re both right and they changed the way the 1/4” output is wired once the phase splitter was introduced.



Here’s the thing I don’t understand. The 1/4” plug has 3 connections: left, right and ground. How did you wire that in parallel to a balanced signal that has 4 phases: L+, L-, R+ and R-? This isn’t a rhetorical question, it sounds like you have tested this.


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## muckyfingers (Aug 29, 2022)

On 1st Gen WA22’s, as that’s what I have and have seen other photos of, L- and R- at the headphone output, not at the balanced input, are wired to Ground. Which is why I, and others, say it is the same signal for all 3 outputs.


----------



## muckyfingers

CAJames said:


> Here’s the thing I don’t understand. The 1/4” plug has 3 connections: left, right and ground. How did you wire that in parallel to a balanced signal that has 4 phases: L+, L-, R+ and R-? This isn’t a rhetorical question, it sounds like you have tested this.


Think of it like this, when using your headphone XLR cable with the WA22, the WA22 is internally wired just like this adapter


----------



## muckyfingers

Here’s a great quote from another thread, that summarizes much of the confusion around the WA22 and the “balanced” questioned.

i.e. The WA22 is “balanced, differential” on the inputs, but only “balanced” on the headphone outputs.



tomlink said:


> The Woo Audio WA22 is a fully balanced amp with both balanced inputs and balanced outputs. The confusion regarding the WA22 stems from the confusion people have between the terms "balanced" and "differential".
> 
> For the purposes of this discussion:
> 
> ...



https://www.head-fi.org/threads/woo-wa22-balanced-vs-unbalanced-input.634551/page-2


----------



## skhan007

muckyfingers said:


> Here’s a great quote from another thread, that summarizes much of the confusion around the WA22 and the “balanced” questioned.
> 
> i.e. The WA22 is “balanced, differential” on the inputs, but only “balanced” on the headphone outputs.
> 
> ...


This is great information, thank you for posting! 

I'm on the lookout to buy a WA22 and given some of the above posts, the Gen 1 doesn't sound like a bad option all. I don't think I'll ever need/use preamp outs, the phase splitter sounds like a "nice to have" but I don't think its absence would lessen my experience. I believe the volume pot change would be a non-issue. That all being said, maybe a Gen 1 at a somewhat lower price point could be entertained?


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## muckyfingers (Sep 3, 2022)

skhan007 said:


> This is great information, thank you for posting!
> 
> I'm on the lookout to buy a WA22 and given some of the above posts, the Gen 1 doesn't sound like a bad option all. I don't think I'll ever need/use preamp outs, the phase splitter sounds like a "nice to have" but I don't think its absence would lessen my experience. I believe the volume pot change would be a non-issue. That all being said, maybe a Gen 1 at a somewhat lower price point could be entertained?


Yes, the Gen 2 has a couple of nice to have options over the Gen 1. The volume pot on the Gen 1 is the better/ more expensive version. The preamp on the back of the Gen 2 is convenient, but you could also use adapters on a Gen 1 and use any of the headphone outputs as the preamp.

Finally, if using a balanced DAC, you aren’t missing any performance. If you do wind up needing or wanting to use the RCA inputs on a Gen 1, then sending it in for the phase splitter upgrade is an option.


----------



## mab1376

skhan007 said:


> Besides the phase splitter, are there noteworthy differences between WA22 Gen 1 and Gen 2?


The other main new feature was XLR pre-amp outputs.

Does anyone have any internal pics comparing Gen1 to Gen2?

I have a Gen2 from March 2022, and curious about how they compare internally.


----------



## 9bphillips

I am listening to my wa22 and getting static electrical interference from my phone. I know this is normal but is there a way to minimize it? I have noticed when my phone touches my cable I get interference.  Would a sleeved cable help with this? It is really only audible when no music is playing and it isn't really that bad but since I sit close to my wa22 and I like scrolling through headfi or faces sometimes while listening I would like to cut down on the static interference.  I will be getting a new cable for my Atrium and VC soon and will probably be getting it sleeved and longer than my cable i have now so I can sit further from the Amp. I am hoping getting it sleeved would help but if not is there anything else I could do to minimize it?


----------



## muckyfingers (Aug 30, 2022)

9bphillips said:


> I am listening to my wa22 and getting static electrical interference from my phone. I know this is normal but is there a way to minimize it? I have noticed when my phone touches my cable I get interference.  Would a sleeved cable help with this? It is really only audible when no music is playing and it isn't really that bad but since I sit close to my wa22 and I like scrolling through headfi or faces sometimes while listening I would like to cut down on the static interference.  I will be getting a new cable for my Atrium and VC soon and will probably be getting it sleeved and longer than my cable i have now so I can sit further from the Amp. I am hoping getting it sleeved would help but if not is there anything else I could do to minimize it?


A sleeved cable wouldn’t help, unless the sleeve is some specialized RF reducing/blocking type of material. Using better internally shielded cables would help.

Physical distance is the proven solution. If you do find another solution, please do post about it.


----------



## u2u2

muckyfingers said:


> If you have a 1st Generation WA22, the balanced input will give you louder outputs across all  headphone connectors, the XLR out to the headphone will still be the same volume as the 1/4", again because they are wired in parallel. The RCA input will only use half the amplifier circuit, thus only giving you half the volume, even if using the XLR output.
> 
> On 2nd Generation models, Woo began using phase splitters on the RCA inputs, to give you the same volume as the Balanced input. You can still send in your 1st Generation unit for this upgrade, for about $350.
> 
> If you open up your unit, you can see that all the headphone connectors are wired together, they are the same signal. You can also double check this with a multimeter, there is nothing different from the XLR outputs and the 1/4" output, other than the connector itself.


Phase splitter has been in use for many years. Most likely 2014 or earlier. This is a many times recurring theme from the older WA22 threads. I had a big interest in finding solid answers on the splitter and headphones outputs before buying my 2015 build WA22.  Perhaps there is more to the storey on the 2nd gens. Can you expand on it?


----------



## muckyfingers (Sep 3, 2022)

Until I get a Gen 2 in my hands, I can't be 100% sure. I currently own a 1st Gen, without the phase splitter upgrade. The information I shared above comes from my experience opening up my unit, Gen 2 info is second hand, mostly from this community, and things Woo have said regarding this topic.

edit: I've made corrections to my previous posts, mainly that the phase splitter was introduced prior to the Gen 2 model release.


----------



## muckyfingers (Aug 30, 2022)

u2u2 said:


> Phase splitter has been in use for many years. Most likely 2014 or earlier. This is a many times recurring theme from the older WA22 threads. I had a big interest in finding solid answers on the splitter and headphones outputs before buying my 2015 build WA22.  Perhaps there is more to the storey on the 2nd gens. Can you expand on it?


You are correct, I can't believe I missed the year of the Phase Splitter was introduced, in 2014. My brain just lumped it in with the 2nd Gen release in 2018, which was when Woo introduced the XLR Preamp and the "sonic improvement" to the amp.

So this means there are many units with the flush mount 1/4" with no preamp, but do have the Phase Splitter installed.

I’m going to have to go back make edit corrections on my posts, I don’t want to mislead anyone.


----------



## skhan007

OK, I'm on the hunt for a WA22. I've determined that I'd be equally as happy with a Gen 1 vs. Gen 2. There's a pricey one in the classifieds, but I'd be open to see what else is out there. If any current owners are interested in selling, let me know. I'll likely place at WTB ad too.


----------



## Coran

I've had my WA22 for a little over a month now, and I must say...I get it now. 

This is my first tube amp. I had heard what they were capable of doing (especially, on ZMFs, as I have the Atrium), but didn't quite realize just how amazing it can get. This is probably the first time where I understood what 'holographic soundstage' really was. This is all with the stock tubes as well. I'm simply loving my music all over again. But, I know it can be better...

That said, I think it's time to start tube rolling. This is all very new to me. What tubes really get you the most bang for the buck when it comes to replacing? Should I start with the rectifier and then go from there? Get that where I want then upgrade the power and driver tubes?

For sound, I want to play up the strengths of the Atrium. I can definitely tell that the bass needs some more presence over what the stock tubes are offering, especially in the sub bass. Mids are pretty great right now, but I think the highs are just a _touch_ too sharp. Any tips are very welcome. I'm very excited to play around and experiment with this damn amazing amp!


----------



## ColSaulTigh (Sep 1, 2022)

Woo's tend to do very well with upgraded Rectifiers.  There are quite a few directions you can go - NOS Brimars are quite good, as are other offerings by WE, GEC, etc.  The other route would be to go with newer rectifiers.  My personal favorite is the Elrog 5U4G.  Others include the Takatsuki 274B, USAF "Mighty" 596 (with a Woo adapter), and the EML 5U4G Mesh.  There's a mega-thread *HERE* for you to read through.

The biggest thing I noticed up front by replacing the rectifier is that I no longer had "tube sag" which you can hear as you get into some more power-demanding music (rock, metal, heavy orchestral, etc.)  Best way to describe it is the amp sounds like it's running out of power to push the music very strongly.  In addition, stronger rectifiers really bolster the lower end and help the mids really shine.  They also push the high end to be brilliant without becoming shrill.

From the rectifier, then you can start tweaking the other tubes.  I'm not super familiar with the 6080 power tubes, so I'll defer to others opinions there.  As for the drive tubes, there's a LOT of different directions to go with the 6SN7 - the current "favorite child" is NOS Melz 1578 (ask @paradoxper  or @AndriiUkraine if he still has a set for sale).  My other favorites right now are NOS Tung Sol (or Sylvania) 6F8G's with adapters.  They're getting quite expensive, but you can find them on eBay from time to time for under $200/pair.  There's a *mega-thread devoted to the 6SN7* that'll take you days to read - all great stuff in there.

The best part of tube rolling is that you get to customize your listening experience to your tastes.  Try something out, see if you like it, and if not, roll them out and try something else!


----------



## skhan007 (Sep 1, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> Woo's tend to do very well with upgraded Rectifiers.  There are quite a few directions you can go - NOS Brimars are quite good, as are other offerings by WE, GEC, etc.  The other route would be to go with newer rectifiers.  My personal favorite is the Elrog 5U4G.  Others include the Takatsuki 274B, USAF "Mighty" 596 (with a Woo adapter), and the EML 5U4G Mesh.  There's a mega-thread *HERE* for you to read through.
> 
> The biggest thing I noticed up front by replacing the rectifier is that I no longer had "tube sag" which you can hear as you get into some more power-demanding music (rock, metal, heavy orchestral, etc.)  Best way to describe it is the amp sounds like it's running out of power to push the music very strongly.  In addition, stronger rectifiers really bolster the lower end and help the mids really shine.  They also push the high end to be brilliant without becoming shrill.
> 
> ...


That's great info- I had always considered the tube rectifier to be the least significant of the bunch (at least it usually is in guitar amps, so HiFi is a different ballgame, apparently).


Question for all of you: I continue to research the differences between Gen 1 and Gen 2. After speaking to Jack Wu, he stated that another difference (and perhaps the only one that would be of interest to me) is that Gen 2 has different transformers. He compared it like going from a 4-cylinder car to an 8-cylinder car with the Gen 2. 

Have any of you listed to both Gen 1 and Gen 2 and can speak to any difference in tone, power, performance, etc.? There are savings to be had if I buy a Gen 1, so I'm really hoping to know.


----------



## Thaddy

Honestly, you're probably over-analyzing the differences between Gen 1 and Gen 2.  Buy whatever you can find that's in your budget.  You probably won't find anyone that has compared a Gen 1 directly to a Gen 2.  Even then, you'd need to compare the amps using the same tubes.  And please bookmark this link.  It's the most recent Tube Compatibility Chart from Woo Audio.


----------



## skhan007

Thaddy said:


> Honestly, you're probably over-analyzing the differences between Gen 1 and Gen 2.  Buy whatever you can find that's in your budget.  You probably won't find anyone that has compared a Gen 1 directly to a Gen 2.  Even then, you'd need to compare the amps using the same tubes.  And please bookmark this link.  It's the most recent Tube Compatibility Chart from Woo Audio.


Thanks- I appreciate it.

I thought overthinking, agonizing, etc. are part of the audiophile decision process?


----------



## muckyfingers (Sep 1, 2022)

skhan007 said:


> Thanks- I appreciate it.
> 
> I thought overthinking, agonizing, etc. are part of the audiophile decision process?


It is, but so is the “what if” nag in the back of your mind; until you’ve heard the amp, dac, headphones, cables, tubes or whatever the new thing is. 

The only true way to know if one is “better” or just different than the other is to hear both yourself, unfortunately.


----------



## muckyfingers

Coran said:


> I've had my WA22 for a little over a month now, and I must say...I get it now.
> 
> This is my first tube amp. I had heard what they were capable of doing (especially, on ZMFs, as I have the Atrium), but didn't quite realize just how amazing it can get. This is probably the first time where I understood what 'holographic soundstage' really was. This is all with the stock tubes as well. I'm simply loving my music all over again. But, I know it can be better...
> 
> ...


You can never go wrong with the Sophia Princess tube, the 274B looks as good as it sounds.


----------



## jonathan c

skhan007 said:


> That's great info- I had always considered the tube rectifier to be the least significant of the bunch (at least it usually is in guitar amps, so HiFi is a different ballgame, apparently).
> 
> 
> Question for all of you: I continue to research the differences between Gen 1 and Gen 2. After speaking to Jack Wu, he stated that another difference (and perhaps the only one that would be of interest to me) is that Gen 2 has different transformers. He compared it like going from a 4-cylinder car to an 8-cylinder car with the Gen 2.
> ...


….a choice between saving money or saving sanity…😜?


----------



## skhan007

jonathan c said:


> ….a choice between saving money or saving sanity…😜?


Oh, I’ve lost my sanity at this point! I really wish amp buying was simpler. Clearly, I’ve narrowed down my search to a couple of amps that are simply unavailable to me unless I buy new.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

skhan007 said:


> Oh, I’ve lost my sanity at this point! I really wish amp buying was simpler. Clearly, I’ve narrowed down my search to a couple of amps that are simply unavailable to me unless I buy new.


Establish a priority list:

1) Budget
2) Sound 'signature'
3) Tube rolling options
4) Visual appearance
5) Features
...
etc.

Figure out which priorities will drive your decision-making.  Analysis paralysis and FOMO are very real and will keep you from making a decision.  Just remember, there is no wrong answer.  Worst-case scenario you box it up and resell it.  You take a little hit financially but gain a wealth of information you can apply to your next decision.  Personally, I find value in buying quality used pieces from reputable sellers (here or elsewhere).  This is a hobby, after all.  Have FUN with it!

(Also, Gen 2 IMO).


----------



## VanHai

skhan007 said:


> Oh, I’ve lost my sanity at this point! I really wish amp buying was simpler. Clearly, I’ve narrowed down my search to a couple of amps that are simply unavailable to me unless I buy new.


In this hobby, all you need is patience and it will reward you handsomely($$$). In the meantime just replenish your wallet and looking for  NOS tubes


----------



## Coran

ColSaulTigh said:


> Woo's tend to do very well with upgraded Rectifiers.  There are quite a few directions you can go - NOS Brimars are quite good, as are other offerings by WE, GEC, etc.  The other route would be to go with newer rectifiers.  My personal favorite is the Elrog 5U4G.  Others include the Takatsuki 274B, USAF "Mighty" 596 (with a Woo adapter), and the EML 5U4G Mesh.  There's a mega-thread *HERE* for you to read through.
> 
> The biggest thing I noticed up front by replacing the rectifier is that I no longer had "tube sag" which you can hear as you get into some more power-demanding music (rock, metal, heavy orchestral, etc.)  Best way to describe it is the amp sounds like it's running out of power to push the music very strongly.  In addition, stronger rectifiers really bolster the lower end and help the mids really shine.  They also push the high end to be brilliant without becoming shrill.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I've been eyeing both the Elrog and the EML, but I can't find them in stock anywhere to buy right now. Rather annoying, but it is what it is. I have been going through lots of those other tube threads. Lots to read!


----------



## jonathan c

skhan007 said:


> Oh, I’ve lost my sanity at this point! I really wish amp buying was simpler. Clearly, I’ve narrowed down my search to a couple of amps that are simply unavailable to me unless I buy new.


The h/p/a which you seek are _so good_ in the absolute, or at their price points, that current owners are loathe to sell _unless_ a ‘quantum’ upgrade is in the works…😒🤷🏻‍♂️…


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Coran said:


> Thanks. I've been eyeing both the Elrog and the EML, but I can't find them in stock anywhere to buy right now. Rather annoying, but it is what it is. I have been going through lots of those other tube threads. Lots to read!


Send emails to customer service at Parts Connexion and Audio Art respectively.  They're usually very quick to respond and will get your stuff fairly quickly.  I think I waited all of three weeks to get my Elrog 5U4G's from PC.  About a month for the EML's.


----------



## MIKELAP

mab1376 said:


> The other main new feature was XLR pre-amp outputs.
> 
> Does anyone have any internal pics comparing Gen1 to Gen2?
> 
> I have a Gen2 from March 2022, and curious about how they compare internally.


Gen. 1


----------



## jbua5150

My Gen 2


----------



## u2u2

This is a totally stock Gen 1 WA22, September 2015 build. The PCBs have 2014 revision dates...


----------



## muckyfingers

u2u2 said:


> This is a totally stock Gen 1 WA22, September 2015 build. The PCBs have 2014 revision dates...


Not quite stock, that volume pot is a motorized remote Alps version.


----------



## u2u2

muckyfingers said:


> Not quite stock, that volume pot is a motorized remote Alps version.


As built by Woo with no extras/options... A Frankenstein? I think this is why posting photos and a build date makes it interesting. Perhaps they had part constraints? Hope some more internal photos get posted. Love the design. Better part of seven years in service and still like new in every way.


----------



## muckyfingers (Sep 5, 2022)

u2u2 said:


> As built by Woo with no extras/options... A Frankenstein? I think this is why posting photos and a build date makes it interesting. Perhaps they had part constraints? Hope some more internal photos get posted. Love the design. Better part of seven years in service and still like new in every way.


I read of at least one buyer that paid Woo to install a remote volume pot, perhaps this was one of them.

Unless this is yours and you are the 1st owner, then probably they just used the parts they had available at the time. It’s still the same quality volume pot, it just has the optional motor on it.


----------



## mab1376

Also, it was stock at a certain point, but the original Gen1 doesn't have the phase splitters. Not sure about the year they introduced that change.


----------



## muckyfingers

mab1376 said:


> Also, it was stock at a certain point, but the original Gen1 doesn't have the phase splitters. Not sure about the year they introduced that change.



The Phase Splitter was introduced at some point in 2014.


----------



## u2u2

muckyfingers said:


> I read of at least one buyer that paid Woo to install a remote volume pot, perhaps this was one of them.
> 
> Unless this is yours and you are the 1st owner, then probably they just used the parts they had available at the time. It’s still the same quality volume pot, it just has the optional motor on it.


I am the original owner. Had a local shop I support order a bare bones WA22 from Woo for me and I picked it up, unopened, the day it arrived. First time the cover came off was yesterday to take some internal photos... 

In regard to the phase splitter here is a cropped shot. Date on the phase splitter PCB, version 2.0, is 140922. The power supply PCB 140527. Seems there might be a few iterations of what is more broadly known as the Gen 1 amp. Those who are buying previously enjoyed kit might want internal shots before making  a purchase decision.


----------



## skhan007

Do any of you know how to interpret the serial numbers on the Woo WA22? Not sure if the serial corresponds to year, date, or anything that could denote date of manufacture.


----------



## u2u2

skhan007 said:


> Do any of you know how to interpret the serial numbers on the Woo WA22? Not sure if the serial corresponds to year, date, or anything that could denote date of manufacture.


First two digits = month, second two = year. My WA22 is 0915XXX or September 2015.


----------



## muckyfingers

Does anyone have any experience with the WA22 and really low impedance planars like the DCA Stealth or LCD-5?


----------



## mab1376

muckyfingers said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the WA22 and really low impedance planars like the DCA Stealth or LCD-5?


I'm using the HE-500 (38ohm) and also the HE-5xx (18 ohms).


----------



## muckyfingers (Sep 20, 2022)

mab1376 said:


> I'm using the HE-500 (38ohm) and also the HE-5xx (18 ohms).


Woo gives a rating of 1.5w at 32ohms. I’m curious about anything lower. How does the HE-5XX sound?

I’ve listened to the Aeon 1,2, and Ether 2 through a OTL amps, in the past. The result was that low volume sounded fine, but as you went up the dial, the treble became screetchy and the bass sounded like a blown woofer.


----------



## mab1376 (Sep 20, 2022)

muckyfingers said:


> Woo gives a rating of 1.5w at 32ohms. I’m curious about anything lower. How does the HE-5XX sound?
> 
> I’ve listened to the Aeon 1,2, and Ether 2 through a OTL amps, in the past. The result was that low volume sounded fine, but as you went up the dial, the treble became screetchy and the bass sounded like a blown woofer.


They sound great to me, I've had no issues with distortion or lack of volume. Something more power-hungry like the Susvara would be an issue though.

HE-500 sensitivity is 89dB
HE-5xx sensitivity is 93.5 dB

I always use planars on the lo setting for low impedance.

You can also get some 5998 or 7326 power tubes to up the output power to about 2w.


----------



## jbua5150

I use LCD-4z (15ohms) LCD-X and LCD-XC(20 ohms).  There is plenty of power to drive them, even with the 6AS7 or 6080.  I listen LOUD and use -3db headroom compensation in Roon.  With the stock drivers I never exceed 2 o'clock on the volume dial.  With 7236 or 5998 I usually am at 11-12 o'clock on the volume dial.


----------



## 9bphillips

Damn that tube glow is pretty! I'm really enjoying Taj Mahal An Evening Of Acoustic Music on the WA22 and ZMF Atrium! I've had my Wa22 for 6 months and it's still the best decision I've made in this hobby! Definitely after upgrading from the stock tubes!


----------



## jonathan c (Sep 27, 2022)

jbua5150 said:


> I use LCD-4z (15ohms) LCD-X and LCD-XC(20 ohms).  There is plenty of power to drive them, even with the 6AS7 or 6080.  I listen LOUD and use -3db headroom compensation in Roon.  With the stock drivers I never exceed 2 o'clock on the volume dial.  With 7236 or 5998 I usually am at 11-12 o'clock on the volume dial.


It helps, also, that the sensitivity of the ‘4z’ and of the ‘XC’ are 98 dB/mw and 100 dB/mw. These are quite high values: the two headphones are quite ‘efficient’.


----------



## VanHai

I just built a 3 pin XLRs to a 4 pin XLR female adapter, so i can use both balanced plugs on my WA22 to compare headphones.


----------



## nephilim32

VanHai said:


> I just built a 3 pin XLRs to a 4 pin XLR female adapter, so i can use both balanced plugs on my WA22 to compare headphones.


And did you find any difference in performance?


----------



## VanHai (Oct 7, 2022)

nephilim32 said:


> And did you find any difference in performance?


No, there is no difference in performance because they are both balanced. But it is very convivence for A/B test, if you have 2 of the same headphones one is modded or one has difference earpads. I have 5 pairs of ZMFs and some are modded, it makes very easy for me to compare with one amp, more accurately instead 3 or 4 amps.


----------



## nephilim32

VanHai said:


> No, there is no difference in performance because they are both balanced. But it is very convivence for A/B test, if you have 2 of the same headphones one is modded or one has difference earpads. I have 5 pairs of ZMFs and some are modded and it makes very easy for me to compare with one amp, more accurately instead 3 or 4 amps.


Absolutely. I did the same A/B test. No difference, but I still use the left / Right Dual 3Pin mainly because of the aesthetics. I like it. I use an adapter like you. It is absolutely fine.


----------



## Coran

So, I have noticed that when my WA22 is on, it will sometimes make a high pitched ringing sound. I'm not talking about through the headphones, but the amp itself seems to be emitting this noise. It can be quite noticeable when I take my headphones off and can hear it in the room. 

I can fix this by turning the amp off and back on again, but I was just wondering if anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this, and what I can do to maybe stop this from happing. A minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless.


----------



## cj3209

Coran said:


> So, I have noticed that when my WA22 is on, it will sometimes make a high pitched ringing sound. I'm not talking about through the headphones, but the amp itself seems to be emitting this noise. It can be quite noticeable when I take my headphones off and can hear it in the room.
> 
> I can fix this by turning the amp off and back on again, but I was just wondering if anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this, and what I can do to maybe stop this from happing. A minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless.


I have the same issue.  Doesn't bother me though; I have a feeling it's from the tubes.


----------



## ColSaulTigh

Coran said:


> So, I have noticed that when my WA22 is on, it will sometimes make a high pitched ringing sound. I'm not talking about through the headphones, but the amp itself seems to be emitting this noise. It can be quite noticeable when I take my headphones off and can hear it in the room.
> 
> I can fix this by turning the amp off and back on again, but I was just wondering if anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this, and what I can do to maybe stop this from happing. A minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless.





cj3209 said:


> I have the same issue.  Doesn't bother me though; I have a feeling it's from the tubes.


It might be your rectifier tubes.  Mine do it from time-to-time in my WA5-LE.  I found shutting everything down, reseating the tubes, and firing it back up does the trick.


----------



## UntilThen

Very strange and I wouldn’t call it normal. My WA22 when I had it is just silent and well behaved. Tubes shouldn’t be emitting this kind of noise. As a matter of fact, all my tube amps never emit this noise and I have been through probably 10 or more tube amps.


----------



## innocentblood

I am hearing some "crackling" sounds which sounds like "static" to me whenever I am turning the volume pot on my WA22. this happens only whenever I am turning the volume pot and once I am done adjusting the volume pot, the sounds go away and music flows beautifully as usual.

is this a sign of things to come?


----------



## elwappo99

I've found the rectifier creates the most amount of noise overall. Having a solid state rectifier on hand is handy to quickly rule out if it's the 6sn7, 6080, or rectifier


----------



## UntilThen

innocentblood said:


> I am hearing some "crackling" sounds which sounds like "static" to me whenever I am turning the volume pot on my WA22. this happens only whenever I am turning the volume pot and once I am done adjusting the volume pot, the sounds go away and music flows beautifully as usual.
> 
> is this a sign of things to come?



You should get it service. That's scratchy pot. Should be an easy fix. How old is your Wa22?


----------



## innocentblood

UntilThen said:


> You should get it service. That's scratchy pot. Should be an easy fix. How old is your Wa22?


I bought mine in 2016.


----------



## UntilThen

innocentblood said:


> I bought mine in 2016.



6 years so time for a bit of tender loving service. It's good that you had it for that long. Means you like. If a tube amp stays that long with me, then the world must surely come to an end.


----------



## jbua5150 (Nov 21, 2022)

innocentblood said:


> I am hearing some "crackling" sounds which sounds like "static" to me whenever I am turning the volume pot on my WA22. this happens only whenever I am turning the volume pot and once I am done adjusting the volume pot, the sounds go away and music flows beautifully as usual.
> 
> is this a sign of things to come?


Does your WA22 have the DACT stepped volume pot?
I bought an older used WA6-SE with the DACT pot that made cracking noises at each "click" of the DACT pot, much like you describe.
It never bothered me much.
I sold the amp to a buddy, it bothered him.
He opened it up, sprayed some deoxit into the pot, worked the knob back and forth to its minimum and maximum ranges repeatedly.
He reports it is silent now.


----------



## nephilim32

Coran said:


> So, I have noticed that when my WA22 is on, it will sometimes make a high pitched ringing sound. I'm not talking about through the headphones, but the amp itself seems to be emitting this noise. It can be quite noticeable when I take my headphones off and can hear it in the room.
> 
> I can fix this by turning the amp off and back on again, but I was just wondering if anyone has an idea as to what might be causing this, and what I can do to maybe stop this from happing. A minor annoyance, but an annoyance nonetheless.


Hi Goran.  

It might be the case where some of your tubes are a bit overly microphonic. See if you can limit the vibration that your amp is supported on and maybe look into those tube ‘rubber bands’ that go around the tube to limit microphonic noise and vibration. It might work, otherwise try swapping certain tubes out. 

Let me know what how it goes and I hope your problem gets fixed. 

🤝


----------



## hung031086

I just got this amp last week. And I really like it. Now I want to do the tubes rolling. Any suggestions for the 6080s and 6SN7s ?


----------



## ColSaulTigh

hung031086 said:


> I just got this amp last week. And I really like it. Now I want to do the tubes rolling. Any suggestions for the 6080s and 6SN7s ?


Oooooh boy, did you just open a can of worms!

I hope you've got a deep wallet, because it's about to get crazy.

I don't have experience with the 6080's, but can definitely guide you through some 6SN7 picks.  Let's start with the obvious first two questions:

1) Do you have a budget for tube rolling, and
2) What kind of sound are you looking for?


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## CAJames

UntilThen said:


> You should get it service. That's scratchy pot. Should be an easy fix. How old is your Wa22?



I'll never tell anyone not to send a tube in for service if something is wrong, but I've had several input tubes that make a "scratchy pot" pot sound when I change the volume. Eventually (or quickly) they develop more noise. If you haven't already I'd try a couple of input tubes and confirm the noise is really the pot and not a tube.


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## elwappo99

jbua5150 said:


> Does your WA22 have the DACT stepped volume pot?
> I bought an older used WA6-SE with the DACT pot that made cracking noises at each "click" of the DACT pot, much like you describe.
> It never bothered me much.
> I sold the amp to a buddy, it bothered him.
> ...



This is great advice and if the pot has never been serviced the likely fix. Deoxit is one of those things all audiophiles should have on hand.


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## Coran

ColSaulTigh said:


> It might be your rectifier tubes.  Mine do it from time-to-time in my WA5-LE.  I found shutting everything down, reseating the tubes, and firing it back up does the trick.


I'm using the Elrog 5U4G right now. reseating is interesting with this one because it is _very_ loose in the socket. Whether in the amp directly or a socket saver. I might need to play around with it to see if this is the source. 



nephilim32 said:


> Hi Goran.
> 
> It might be the case where some of your tubes are a bit overly microphonic. See if you can limit the vibration that your amp is supported on and maybe look into those tube ‘rubber bands’ that go around the tube to limit microphonic noise and vibration. It might work, otherwise try swapping certain tubes out.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I plan on rotating out each tube in turn. This might take some time, as I'm out of town for the next week. I'm hoping this helps narrow things down!


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## ColSaulTigh

Coran said:


> I'm using the Elrog 5U4G right now. reseating is interesting with this one because it is _very_ loose in the socket. Whether in the amp directly or a socket saver. I might need to play around with it to see if this is the source.


Mine are "lightly gripped" in the WA5-LE, which is odd considering the death grip the amp has on every other tube.  Having said that, once I re-seated them the ringing went away.


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## nephilim32

Coran said:


> I'm using the Elrog 5U4G right now. reseating is interesting with this one because it is _very_ loose in the socket. Whether in the amp directly or a socket saver. I might need to play around with it to see if this is the source.
> 
> 
> Yeah, I plan on rotating out each tube in turn. This might take some time, as I'm out of town for the next week. I'm hoping this helps narrow things down!


I think it definitely will. Keep us posted when you have time of course.


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## hung031086

ColSaulTigh said:


> Oooooh boy, did you just open a can of worms!
> 
> I hope you've got a deep wallet, because it's about to get crazy.
> 
> ...






1) My budget is round $500 for those tubes. I just bought 274B Sophia Aqua. Hopefully it will be good.
2) I'm looking for a lush sounding. Im sensitive with treble, so I focus mostly on bass and soundstage. I really like how my Atrium sounds right now. Its never been this good when i used it with Pendant SE and HA-3A. But I wanna push it a little further.


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## ColSaulTigh

Well, for $500, I can recommend the RCA Grey Glass for a warm, slightly smokey sound.  They're a bit on the "tubey" side, definitely rich and lush sounding.  The Sophia Princess is an excellent start for rectifier rolling.  If you want something less pretty but more impactful, find a Brimar 5Z4GY for around $50 on eBay.

Others will have to throw out some 6080 recommendations.

Enjoy!


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## Thaddy

ColSaulTigh said:


> Well, for $500, I can recommend the RCA Grey Glass for a warm, slightly smokey sound.  They're a bit on the "tubey" side, definitely rich and lush sounding.  The Sophia Princess is an excellent start for rectifier rolling.  If you want something less pretty but more impactful, find a Brimar 5Z4GY for around $50 on eBay.
> 
> Others will have to throw out some 6080 recommendations.
> 
> Enjoy!


I'll second the RCA Gray Glass 6SN7 recommendation.  They are excellent.  Honestly, for that budget I'd go with an all-RCA set of tubes.

Look for some NOS RCA 6AS7G's (late 1940's to early 1950's) and an RCA 5V4G or RCA JAN 5R4GY rectifier.  Yes, there are better tubes out there but you'll get a lot of bang for your buck with this combo.

For the 6AS7G's, MANY companies rebranded RCA-made tubes, so also be on the lookout for Tung-Sol, Chatham, Raytheon, and others that have the same plate structure as the RCA 6AS7G's.

If you want to try some 6080 variations, look for Sylvania 7236 and Tung-Sol 7236., although those tubes are on the rare/expensive side these days.

Just know that the most popular tubes for this amp are becoming more and more rare, which means $$$.  Which is why I'd recommend RCA first, as they are still plentiful and not crazy expensive.


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## ColSaulTigh

The RCA JAN 5R4GY is also a great little rectifier, but I prefer the punchiness of the Brimar for about the same price point.  YMMV.


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## hung031086

How about Tung Sol 5998 ?


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## Coran (Nov 22, 2022)

hung031086 said:


> How about Tung Sol 5998 ?



They are fantastic tubes, but you'd nearly spend your entire budget on those alone.


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## hung031086

Coran said:


> They are fantastic tubes, but you'd nearly spend your entire budget on those alone.


I can spend more than that. I just don't know its worth it to do that or not.


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## VanHai

hung031086 said:


> I can spend more than that. I just don't know its worth it to do that or not.


Best power tubes for WA22.


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## hung031086

VanHai said:


> Best power tubes for WA22.


Do I need adapters for them ? I have been tried a few tube amps before. But I still don't know much about tubes.


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## jbua5150

hung031086 said:


> Do I need adapters for them ? I have been tried a few tube amps before. But I still don't know much about tubes.


No tube adapter needed to use TungSol 5998 on WA22.  
Maybe a $$ adapter. Hehe


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## elwappo99

hung031086 said:


> How about Tung Sol 5998 ?



The Tung Sol 5998 are the most sought after tube for the 6080 line, and they are quite good, but the cost is quite high. IMHO, once you start looking at those high price tubes to eek out a bit more performance from the WA22, you're better off with a higher end 300b based amp which even at a basic configuration would greatly outpace a WA22. 

If you've got a WA22 spend a hundred or so on tubes and just enjoy it for what it is. But once people talk about spending close to $1000 on tubes there's better options to look at.


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## BillinSF (Nov 27, 2022)

I bought WA22.  Then upgraded with a WE 422A rectifier and two TS 5998 power tubes and a few pairs of driver tubes.  Spent more on the tubes than the amp itself.

Sigh... choices to be made.

btw  ... sounds great!!!!


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## BillinSF (Nov 27, 2022)

hung031086 said:


> I can spend more than that. I just don't know its worth it to do that or not.


Hung.

There are smarter people than me on Head-Fi.  But here's my two cents.

A tube headphone amp is powered by, and its sound is generated by, the tubes.  That's why it's called a tube amp.  The tubes do the work. The amp itself is just a platform.  Connectors, knobs, etc.

Sound quality begins with the rectifier.  Converts your AC household current to DC.  WA22 starts with a 5U4G (or compatable)  rectifier.  See first attachment.

At the end of the chain are the driver tubes.  See second attachment.  6SN7 tubes and variants. 

As one commenter said, a tube amp based on the 300B tube would be awesome.  That's a real step up in rectifier quality and power. 

I LOVE my WA22 with a WE 422A rectifier and TS 5998 power tubes and I use RCA 1940's grey glass driver tubes.  Powers my Sennhesier 800S like a dream.  And yup, spent about $2,200 on tubes.  But again, the tubes are the sound!

Best of luck.


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## hung031086

I upgraded tubes. Sophia Aqua 274B, RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass, RCA 6AS7G NOS.


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## Badas

hung031086 said:


> I upgraded tubes. Sophia Aqua 274B, RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass, RCA 6AS7G NOS.


Looks gorgeous.


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## Coran

hung031086 said:


> I upgraded tubes. Sophia Aqua 274B, RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass, RCA 6AS7G NOS.


How is the sound now?


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## Thaddy

hung031086 said:


> I upgraded tubes. Sophia Aqua 274B, RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass, RCA 6AS7G NOS.


That should be an excellent combination with your Atrium's.


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## ColSaulTigh

hung031086 said:


> I upgraded tubes. Sophia Aqua 274B, RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass, RCA 6AS7G NOS.


Love those RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass - nice and smokey and warm sounding!


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## hung031086

Coran said:


> How is the sound now?


Better than before but soundstage I think its smaller than before a tiny bit.


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## Badas

ColSaulTigh said:


> Love those RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass - nice and smokey and warm sounding!


I agree. They have a great tone.
Mellow, wrapped in a warm blanket drinking bourbon sound. 
However, my opinion. A little rolled off on upper treble. Which could be why hung031086 finds the soundstage a little smaller. 


hung031086 said:


> Better than before but soundstage I think its smaller than before a tiny bit.


Give Tung-Sol round plates a go. TS 6SNZ, (TS 6F8G or TS 6C8G - You will need adapters for these last two).
Similar tone to RCA Grey glass, Expanded treble range that lets energy and soundstage expand. Very holographic tubes.

Mine below: TS roundplate TS 6C8G. I have 36 pairs.


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## ColSaulTigh

Badas said:


> I agree. They have a great tone.
> Mellow, wrapped in a warm blanket drinking bourbon sound.
> However, my opinion. A little rolled off on upper treble. Which could be why hung031086 finds the soundstage a little smaller.
> 
> ...


I whole-heartedly agree with your assessment of the RCA's.  They do roll off, and that's OK if you're in a Blues kinda mood!

I ALSO agree with you on the Tung Sol BGRP 6F8G's.  Although I only have 3 sets.  You're sitting on a gold mine, you know...


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## rivonlol (Dec 1, 2022)

Just wanted to throw this out there.

ECC35 drivers are amazing with R2R DACs.

I hated them when I had my Bifrost 2/64 because I thought the highs were so harsh and fatiguing so I opted with both RCA VT231's and Sylvania 6SN7WGT's and was satisfied with that as they mellowed out the highs

Now, with the Holo May, I thought it was lacking energy with my VT231's and 6SN7WGT so I decided to throw on the Adzam ECC35's and WOW this is such a great sound. Really brought everything to life.

I am using the WE 422A rectifier and Tung Sol 5998 power tubes along with Atrium, Verite Closed, and Susvara.


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## VanHai

rivonlol said:


> Just wanted to throw this out there.
> 
> ECC35 drivers are amazing with R2R DACs.
> 
> ...


I bet it sounds awesome .  I have a very similar set up with Mullard GZ37 as rectifier and no longer need to roll tubes.

R2R DAC. Gustard R26
Tung Sol 6sl7 tall bottle = Ecc35 drivers.
Tung Sol 5998 power tubes.


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## hung031086

I just got a R26 yesterday. Sound very nice with my tubes. Soundstage is a tiny bit wider now. Everything is perfect for me now. Love it.


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## VanHai (Dec 1, 2022)

hung031086 said:


> I just got a R26 yesterday. Sound very nice with my tubes. Soundstage is a tiny bit wider now. Everything is perfect for me now. Love it.


It will sound a whole lot better after 200 to 300 hours burn in period. If you are able to pick up a pair of Tung Sol 5998 even greater with the sound for WA22.


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## Badas

rivonlol said:


> Just wanted to throw this out there.
> 
> ECC35 drivers are amazing with R2R DACs.
> 
> ...



I had a similar situation when I went from Aeon 1 open to Aeon 2 open. I own both.
The tube setup for Aeon 1 was perfect but very flat for Aeon 2. Treble felt strangled. 

I went through a lot of tubes. Rectifiers, driver tubes and power. In the end it was the power tubes that was the winner.
I went from a 6080 to 6BL7. Thankfully I had a drawer full of 6BL7's (about 40 or so) so I didn't have to purchase spares.


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## BillinSF

ColSaulTigh said:


> Love those RCA 6SN7GT Smoked Glass - nice and smokey and warm sounding!


RCA grey glass are my absolute fave drivers!! Glad you are enjoying.


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## BillinSF

Re RCA Grey Glass drivers.  

There's an old Head-Fi thread at https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-6sn7-identification-guide.209782/

I pulled this statement:

A note on glass colour (‘smoked’) glass tubes
Tubes with black or grey glass were only made en-masse till the early 1950s, after that they become vanishingly rare. What happened?
The black/grey coat was a carbon/graphite coat, designed to prevent electrons from massing on the glass and exerting an undue influence on tube operation (massed negative charges).
Whether its eventual disappearance was the result of cost-cutting measures, or the introduction of new glass that was somehow resistant to this electron massing is unknown.


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## jbua5150 (Dec 11, 2022)

I’d like to talk a little about equipment “synergy”.
I am fortunate to have been able to purchase quite a bit of gear over the years.
I am currently playing with trying to implement the Pre-Amp on my WA22 to feed my speaker amps. 
(I have found it to sound vastly superior to my Schiit Freya+)
Anyways…. 
I am testing the 4 DACS that I have access to SMSL M400, Denafrips Ares II, Mytek Brooklyn Bridge, Matrix Mini I Pro 3 into the WA22 and then to SimAudio Moon monoblocks. 
The difference’s I detect in DAC’s are far harder to identify on my speakers setup vs headphones (ie. I enjoy the sound from all the DACS when listening to speakers)
With headphones, I find 2 of the DAC’s unpleasant (Mytek and Denafrips).
I have spent a fair amount of time trying to find the best sounding combo for the Mytek.  I can make it tolerable with headphones if I roll some tubes, but I don’t enjoy the sound with speakers when it sounds good with headphones.  
Last night I tried the Mytek into my Audio GD NFB1 headphone amp, and I may have finally discovered the best sounding synergy for it!
This lifetime of audio exploration never ceases to amaze me.


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## alekc

jbua5150 said:


> I’d like to talk a little about equipment “synergy”.
> I am fortunate to have been able to purchase quite a bit of gear over the years.
> I am currently playing with trying to implement the Pre-Amp on my WA22 to feed my speaker amps.
> (I have found it to sound vastly superior to my Schiit Freya+)
> ...


@jbua5150 Mytek may not be the easies dac to pair - it can be picky due to its almost transparent signature. Two tips I can give you to further enhance your feelings: play with filters and volume control (digital vs analog). Another option is to enable MQA filter even on non-MQA content, the filter still works giving a different sound signature.


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## jbua5150

alekc said:


> @jbua5150 Mytek may not be the easies dac to pair - it can be picky due to its almost transparent signature. Two tips I can give you to further enhance your feelings: play with filters and volume control (digital vs analog). Another option is to enable MQA filter even on non-MQA content, the filter still works giving a different sound signature.


My experiences with the Mytek have been a very mixed bag.  At times I quite enjoy it, others it seems shrill or harsh. There’s a lot of options to tweak on the Mytek.  It’s interesting that you mentioned the volume control as I did just switch it to analog after keeping it on digital for months. 
I also play with the output gain as I’m told that when set to 0, the Mytek outputs over 9 volts on the XLR. 
I usually run -6db on the output gain.
Tonight I will take a look at the filter settings you suggested.
Thanks


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## rivonlol

Hello all.

If anyone is interested, I have put my WA22 up for sale along with some upgrade tubes. 

Just going to post this picture to remember it!


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## jbua5150 (Dec 12, 2022)

alekc said:


> @jbua5150 Mytek may not be the easies dac to pair - it can be picky due to its almost transparent signature. Two tips I can give you to further enhance your feelings: play with filters and volume control (digital vs analog). Another option is to enable MQA filter even on non-MQA content, the filter still works giving a different sound signature.


Last night I played with the filters as you mentioned.  From my observations, the PCM filters can only be adjusted when the MQA decoder is “disabled”.
I had another great session with the Mytek and the Audio GD!
Thanks for your input!


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## ColSaulTigh

rivonlol said:


> Hello all.
> 
> If anyone is interested, I have put my WA22 up for sale along with some upgrade tubes.
> 
> Just going to post this picture to remember it!


*sniff* sad to see it go, but happy we'll be able to bring a new member into the Woo Crew!


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## Coran

ColSaulTigh said:


> Mine are "lightly gripped" in the WA5-LE, which is odd considering the death grip the amp has on every other tube.  Having said that, once I re-seated them the ringing went away.





nephilim32 said:


> I think it definitely will. Keep us posted when you have time of course.



An update on my ringing issue. I have finally had some time to do some tube swapping and I think it is definitely my Elrog 5U4G. Swapping out the Elrog for the stock rectifier the WA22 came with, (sadly, all I have right now) it becomes clear who the culprit is. The ringing is shockingly audible in the room. I have tried re-seating the tube many times, and also using a socket saver to try and see if that could help matters. The problem remains.

Does anyone have any thoughts as to what might be causing this? Perhaps a faulty tube? It's unfortunate because the Elrog is a rather fantastic rectifier (and the stock one is...not great).


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## ColSaulTigh

Coran said:


> An update on my ringing issue. I have finally had some time to do some tube swapping and I think it is definitely my Elrog 5U4G. Swapping out the Elrog for the stock rectifier the WA22 came with, (sadly, all I have right now) it becomes clear who the culprit is. The ringing is shockingly audible in the room. I have tried re-seating the tube many times, and also using a socket saver to try and see if that could help matters. The problem remains.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts as to what might be causing this? Perhaps a faulty tube? It's unfortunate because the Elrog is a rather fantastic rectifier (and the stock one is...not great).


My ringing has faded with time.  I think there a window in the 100-500 hour mark where they become "chatty", but it's since gone away for the most part.  Every now and again they'll ring for a few minutes.

As to why - good question.  Maybe if we're nice, @paradoxper can reach out to Thomas and ask him...


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## elwappo99

If you don't have one, a solid state rectifier is great for trouble shooting problems in amps that use a rectifier. Also I have a pair of current production electro harmonix 6sn7 which are incredibly quiet for 6sn8 which also serve as trouble shooting duty.


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## paradoxper (Dec 22, 2022)

ColSaulTigh said:


> My ringing has faded with time.  I think there a window in the 100-500 hour mark where they become "chatty", but it's since gone away for the most part.  Every now and again they'll ring for a few minutes.
> 
> As to why - good question.  Maybe if we're nice, @paradoxper can reach out to Thomas and ask him...


This is likely mechanical resonance in the filament, it was suggested you return them.

As to the conditions of why:

"Impossible to say what causes it. So far I had 3 similar cases. Changing the tubes to another solved it and the tube all worked fine in other amps.
There are so many different conditions a tube can see, load capacitance, voltage, current draw, transformer voltage, transformer DC resistance etc.

The lower the load capacitance the lower the tube is prone to such effects, best is choke loaded power supplies, tube rectifiers prefer to be choke loaded.

Mechanical noise from tubes, especially rectifiers is not uncommon. Also in indirectly heated tubes the heater wire can rattle in the cathode.

Admittedly our thoriated tungsten filaments are thinner than oxide coated filaments and more flexible. The current through the tube is pulsating and the pulse shape depends on the load capacitance and the other parameters mentioned above. In directly heated rectifiers the plate current flows through the filament and is imposed on the heater current which is also AC."

It's possible the tube will settle down (not knowing how many hours you've acquired, gathering from Nov 20, it's a new tube) but easier to return.


----------



## Coran

paradoxper said:


> This is likely mechanical resonance in the filament, it was suggested you return them.
> 
> As to the conditions of why:
> 
> ...



Thanks for all this! I truly appreciate it. I love how great this community is. 

I purchased this tube in September. I might have around 60 hours on the tube at this point. I should be well in warranty. I will email Parts Connexion and see what can be worked out. If the problem repeats, well...I guess I'll power through and see if the ringing subsides over time as @ColSaulTigh suggests.


----------

