# Headphone amp as a preamp for active speakers? Headphone amp powering passive speakers? Help!



## supercub

I have a Schiit Modi leading to Schiit Asgard 2. I am looking to buy some bookshelf speakers. I am considering three options, but it's hard to know which option is best.
  
 Option 1. Asgard 2 powering passive speakers.
  
 Option 2. Asgard 2 to active speakers.
  
 Option 3. Computer straight to active speakers.
  
 I would go Modi to active speakers, but the Modi only has one output, and that needs to go to the Asgard. My budget is really low (around $100). I'd like to get nice sounding speakers, but I'm realistic about what can be had for that little money.
  
 Thanks!


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## pulchritudejim

You could use these RCA cables to get 2 outputs from your Modi. The Modi's output stage is quite strong, it should handle it.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3450791
  
 Check out these speakers:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-b652-6-1-2-2-way-bookshelf-speaker-pair--300-652#lblProductDetails
 or if you can spare the cash
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E7H8GG2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3I4WX1LU26YLD&coliid=I2EKWV27O1OOAQ
  
  
 Pair one of those with this
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dta-100a-class-t-digital-mini-amplifier-50-wpc--300-383
 or maybe this, depends on what you want to spend again
http://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-LP-2020A-Lepai-Amplifier-Shipping/dp/B00C2P61FO/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1392307499&sr=8-14&keywords=topping
  
 I have not used any of these speakers or amps, but they are all highly rated.


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## RonaldDumsfeld

One option would be to sell on the Modi, possibly even the Asgard, and get a proper audio interface which will meet your requirements in a single box.
  
 MOTU, Focusrite, Native Instruments & Roland (among many others) make excellent interfaces which will be within your budget.
  
 How old is the computer you plan on using as source and what is the audio codec used.
  
http://stephan.win31.de/music.htm#onboard


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## supercub

Thanks for the suggestions. I just got the Asgard 2 and Modi, and I like them very much. The speakers are a secondary consideration, so I'll definitely be keeping the Schiit. Splitting the Modi output seems like a good option, as long as it doesn't degrade the sound coming out of the Asgard. Schiit website says that Asgard 2 is intended to serve as preamp for active speakers, so that should work out. It has RCA output.
  
 I may just get a nice computer 2.0 set, run them out of the Asgard 2 output, and live with the so-so sound. The cheaper monitors seem a little suspect to me. M-Audio av40s gets decent reviews, but a lot of them appear to fail after a year or so. I'm also not wild about the desktop space consumed by monitors, even smaller ones. The Audioengine A2s are more than I want to spend. I'd rather get another nice set of cans for that money.
  
 I like the LP2020 to Micca suggestion. That's quite a good value.


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## supercub

Oh and the computer is a five-year-old iMac with Snow Leopard OS. I use mostly ALAC.


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## pulchritudejim

I forgot about the Asgard 2's preamp output, that's the best way to go.


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## supercub

No way the Asgard to power passive speakers though, right?


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## pulchritudejim

No, some headphone amps can do that, the Asgard 2 is not one of them. It's simply not powerful enough. The Lepai is what I would go with.


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## cel4145

I use the Asgard 2 as a pre-amp. Works well because then my headphone amp is right there in front of me, too. 

But pulchritudejim is right. The Asgard 2 is not designed to power speakers. Even the Lepai 2020 will do better.


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## ProtegeManiac

supercub said:


> I have a Schiit Modi leading to Schiit Asgard 2. I am looking to buy some bookshelf speakers. I am considering three options, but it's hard to know which option is best.
> 
> Option 1. Asgard 2 powering passive speakers.


 
  
 You cannot power speakers using the Asgard. It has no speaker output. What it has is a preamp output in the rear, near the inputs. You hook those up to an amplifier which is then hooked up to passive speakers, or...


supercub said:


> Option 2. Asgard 2 to active speakers.


 
  
 ...you hook them up to active speakers (technically you're hooking them up to the amp, which is built into the cabinet). I'd rather do it this way, so there won't be another box taking up space where the Asgard and Modi (and mouse, keyboard, monitor, etc) are.
  
  


supercub said:


> Option 3. Computer straight to active speakers.
> 
> I would go Modi to active speakers, but the Modi only has one output, and that needs to go to the Asgard.


 
  
 That would be a waste of the Asgard you already have since that was precisely why they added a preamp output to it. If you use the computer, you either use the digital volume on Windows as a convenient but probably bit-reducing volume control, or you have to stand up and get to the knobs on each monitor (if you use pro studio monitors). Not to mention that a computer's analogue output section is a compromise between headphones and (speaker) amplifiers, and chances are it's not good with either, especially when you have the Modi's DAC with a good line-level analogue output and there's the Asgard with a real preamp output.
  
  


> Originally Posted by *supercub* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My budget is really low (around $100). I'd like to get nice sounding speakers, but I'm realistic about what can be had for that little money.


 
  
 Monoprice has studio monitors for $167; Swans also has some for around the same price. You'd be surprised how much better the active speakers are at that price range compared to computer speakers or cheap studio monitors whose definition of "flat" response is dynamically uninspiring and the drummer couldn't find quality replacements for the surfaces the sticks have pounded beyond use.

 Of course there are passive speakers and relatively cheap T-amps as an option.


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## supercub

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I've decided to go Asgard to active speakers. I'm trying to decide between Creative T20s, which are $70 on Amazon, or Audioengine A2s. Obviously the A2s are a much better product, but they also blow my budget up. Based on my research, the $100-150 range doesn't seem to have a lot of great options, with the exception of a few offerings. Swans m10s are out of stock everywhere, and I fear the shipping costs. Shipping to my location is often very expensive, so Amazon Prime is my much preferred buying mode.
Seems like $200 is the magic number for a significant step up.

Do I keep it reasonable and get the T20s, or do I go for broke with the A2s. Something tells me I already know the answer...


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## cel4145

You'll hate me for this, but as one Asgard 2 owner to another, skip the Audioengine A2s, and spend a little more for the JBL LSR 305s on a buy one, get one 1/2 off special. Do some research, and you'll find that these are comparing favorably to $500-$600 powered monitors. The LSR 305s will put you in a speaker class where you will be very happy with the sound. Spending less is going to be a big compromise for someone that likes nice sound like the Modi/Asgard 2. For example, here's a review: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57615555-47/jbl-lsr305-resetting-sound-expectations-for-desktop-speakers/. It's practically impossible to find any testimonials where people do find them to be an incredible value for the money. 

Plus, the A2s are not so great for bass output because of the small driver. Audioengine tries to get around this with  a boost in the upper midbass region. That's a hack, and it's just a limitation of trying to produce good bass with a 2.75" driver. Just not gonna happen. The JBLs have 5" drivers and will do MUCH better in that regard. 

If you absolutely have to stay around the cost of the A2s, get the Lepai TA2020 and a good pair of passive bookshelf speakers.


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## cel4145

Looks like Amazon has some for even cheaper than Sweetwater. See the Amazon reviews here.


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## ProtegeManiac

cel4145 said:


> You'll hate me for this, but as one Asgard 2 owner to another, skip the Audioengine A2s, and spend a little more for the JBL LSR 305s on a buy one, get one 1/2 off special. Do some research, and you'll find that these are comparing favorably to $500-$600 powered monitors. The LSR 305s will put you in a speaker class where you will be very happy with the sound. Spending less is going to be a big compromise for someone that likes nice sound like the Modi/Asgard 2. For example, here's a review: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57615555-47/jbl-lsr305-resetting-sound-expectations-for-desktop-speakers/. It's practically impossible to find any testimonials where people do find them to be an incredible value for the money.
> 
> Plus, the A2s are not so great for bass output because of the small driver. Audioengine tries to get around this with  a boost in the upper midbass region. That's a hack, and it's just a limitation of trying to produce good bass with a 2.75" driver. Just not gonna happen. The JBLs have 5" drivers and will do MUCH better in that regard.
> 
> If you absolutely have to stay around the cost of the A2s, get the Lepai TA2020 and a good pair of passive bookshelf speakers.


 
  
 If the A2 had been the price of the Creative T20 and they didn't try to squeeze too much bass from a 2.75" driver, I'd recommend it if just for use mostly when one has to rest from using headphones and then listening to mostly vocals or ambiance music. Problem is, it's neither.
  
 Other options include Newegg/Fry's specials on Polk Audio and Klipsch standmounts plus a $50 T-amp.


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## cel4145

protegemaniac said:


> If the A2 had been the price of the Creative T20 and they didn't try to squeeze too much bass from a 2.75" driver, I'd recommend it if just for use mostly when one has to rest from using headphones and then listening to mostly vocals or ambiance music. Problem is, it's neither.




Yeah. People just don't realize how much driver size makes a difference. I think the Audioengine A2 are a decent choice if someone has to have a small speaker at $200. It's just a compromise in SQ, like any of the other small speakers in that price range. Definitely would be OK for when one doesn't want to use headphones for just background listening or watching a youtube video, but then again, the T20s could work as well just for that. 

In that <$200 price range, I'd probably go for the Monoprice 5" driver studio monitors for a powered speaker, except they are now on backorder. 



protegemaniac said:


> Other options include Newegg/Fry's specials on Polk Audio and Klipsch standmounts plus a $50 T-amp.




Definitely follow Newegg and Frys. About a week ago, Frys had the Energy RC-10s on sale for $199, and they are an excellent speaker for the price. Newegg fluctuates from week to week on having the Polk Monitor series on sale. Klipsch would not be my favorite for nearfield use because of their reputation for being somewhat fatiguing. 

The Pioneer SP-BS22-LR are a very good value at $100 a pair.


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## supercub

Interesting feedback on the A2s. I had thought the A2's represented a real step-up, but I get that big, neutral sound can't come from a small package. I don't like the bloated bass, harsh highs, and recessed mids that seem endemic in small, powered speaker systems. I'd rather have no low-end, but with decent mids and highs and accept the so-so SQ. That being the case, it probably makes sense to just get the T20s. Honestly, I'll probably only use them for occasional listening and Amazon Instant Video. If I want good sound, I will use my headphone rig. Besides, I'm planning on getting good portables in the spring, probably Beyerdynamics dt1350, so a smaller purchase now will make that more feasible.


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## ProtegeManiac

supercub said:


> I'd rather have no low-end, but with decent mids and highs and accept the so-so SQ.


 
  
 Try and look up Swans too. The M100MkII is relatively compact still and has bluetooth I think. Real wood cabinets and a larger driver might give you more impact on the upper bass than the T20s, and if not absolutely lower reach in the bass, at least probably flatter or better controlled.


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## supercub

So after going around and around on this, I ended up where I started. I got the M-Audio av40s. The price is right, and most people have reported good experiences with them. I worry a little about quality control issues, but if they die, so be it. I figure they will sound nice with the Asgard as a preamp. Seems like there is an opportunity in this segment, $100-150 powered bookshelf speakers aimed at audiophiles. Seems like most of the offerings are either really nice computer speakers (which aren't so great) or studio monitors that aren't really aimed at consumers. Kind of a void there, especially compared to the great headphone offerings in that range.


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## ProtegeManiac

> *Seems like most of the offerings are either really nice computer speakers* (which aren't so great) or studio monitors that aren't really aimed at consumers. *Kind of a void there*, especially compared to the great headphone offerings in that range.


 
  
 Well, just because Swans/Hi-Vi calls them "multimedia" speakers it doesn't mean it's just a slightly nicer set of Logitechs or Sound Blasters. They just don't call them "pro" monitors because
  
 1) They weren't designed with an extremely flat response

 2) They have an asymmetric design like the Audioengines. Instead of two active monitors, these speakers have one "Master" speaker where the amplifier is and one "Slave" speaker connected to it with a long speaker cable. That simplifies wiring in a lot of ways: only one volume control, only one power cable running to the surge protector, you can have your source/DAC closer to the master speaker and run a relatively shorter cable.
  
 3) There isn't yet a real term for it. Consumer monitors aren't actually used but that's an accurate term; calling them "audiophile monitors" as distinct from "studio monitors," coupled with a not too transparent sound, makes it seem like "audiophile" means it is more "euphonic" than it is "high fidelity," so it really is a marketing conundrum so they just ended up with "Active Speakers" for most brands and Swans just put everything in the same category, "Multimedia," even if the construction and driver size has more in common with standmounts and studio monitors than any plastic Sound Blaster.


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## supercub

Yeah, I get that it might simply be a marketing issue. The Audioengine A2s are the right idea, but I couldn't stomach that price tag for speakers that have to make compromises on SQ due to their size. For $130, I'd snatch them up. The Swans seem great, but they aren't available anywhere I could find. I really prefer to go through Amazon, because my shipping costs can easily equal 25% of the cost of the speakers. The more boutique producers don't have much in the way of distribution, which inherently makes them less consumer oriented. Seems like most of the products out there are from studio monitor producers, but with a price-tag and tuning more oriented toward consumers. That's cool, but I'd like to have more options. It'd be nice to see more products to satisfy this particular market. I don't know much about the biz though, so I could be off base.


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## ProtegeManiac

supercub said:


> I don't know much about the biz though, so I could be off base.


 
  
 No, not far off-base. Swans' distribution network is a bit too small - there was a time last year that even Audio Insider barely had any in stock for some reason. Even I was surprised there was one here in my city, and small as the distributioon system is, I was able to get mine repaired easily (had to drive over to the warehouse to drop it off but then again it's not like we just ship everything on the cheap here to begin with). Then again a larger distribution network with larger retailers usually means larger profit margins for the dealers, which is probably something Swans wants to avoid, since price is they are very competitive.
  
 I just checked Audio Insider and they still don't have the M100; only teh M50 which is the M100 satellites paired with a 6" active sub and the larger D1010 monitors.


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## cel4145

supercub said:


> Seems like there is an opportunity in this segment, $100-150 powered bookshelf speakers aimed at audiophiles.




I doubt there's much market for that. People into speaker audio already know that $100-$150 is not enough to design, market, and sell something with much quality. You have $350 worth of DAC/headphone amp, but expect <$150 with small speakers with amplification to give you great sound? Sorry. Your expectations are way off. That's like saying there is a <$40 audiophile DAC/headphone amp market, when there's really not. 

Besides, best deal for SQ in the < $150 range is to find a good deal on passive speakers with larger drivers and then get a t-amp.


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## RonaldDumsfeld

> $100-150 powered bookshelf speakers aimed at audiophiles.


 
  
 M-Audio AV40.


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## supercub

After re-reading reviews on Amazon about the quality control issues with the av40s, I cancelled my order. I got the Audioengine A2s instead. Happy I went for the nicer option.


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## supercub

Thanks everyone again for the help. I have a specific question. I'm using the Asgard 2 as a preamp so will control gain level with that. What position should I put the volume control on the A2s? 9, 12, 3?

Also, does anyone know how the Asgard switches between preamp out and headphone out? Does inserting a headphone jack into the the amp automatically override the preamp? Thanks.


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## ProtegeManiac

supercub said:


> Thanks everyone again for the help. I have a specific question. I'm using the Asgard 2 as a preamp so will control gain level with that. What position should I put the volume control on the A2s? 9, 12, 3?


 
  
 The quickie way we do it with car audio (receiver's preamped output with gain control on amps) is to set both to zero gain first. Then, set the primary preamp - in this case the Asgard2 - to roughly 75% of the knob movement* then slowly work your way up the A2's knob until you hear distortion. When you do, pull back until the distortion is gone, then pull back a little bit more.
  
  
  
 *it's not a full 360deg movement on the knob so just improvise; in car receivers this is easier because of the digital display of the output


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## supercub

Thanks Protege. Any other suggestions on setting the volume on the A2's?
  
 Anyone know how the interface between preamp and headphone amp on the Asgard 2 works? If headphone's plugged in and the preamp output leads to active speakers, will the Asgard activate both? Preference the headphones?


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## cel4145

when you plug your headphones in, the pre-amp outs are bypassed


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## leenizmeen

Hey guys I know this is an old thread but I’m in a similar situation possible to get some info.
Can l use 1 active sub and 1 active speaker to the rca line out(1+/1-) from my headphone amp?


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## cel4145

leenizmeen said:


> Hey guys I know this is an old thread but I’m in a similar situation possible to get some info.
> Can l use 1 active sub and 1 active speaker to the rca line out(1+/1-) from my headphone amp?



Yes. You can split the output from the headphone amp preout, assuming it has one.


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## leenizmeen

Yes it has 1+\1- rca out. I’m guessing this is what you meant...rca out from headphone amp>sub in\sub out >speaker in via y cable.


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