# Roon is live



## 7ryder

been playing with it for the last 24 hours and it is pretty darn cool.  check it out https://roonlabs.com/


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## vo_obgyn

Has anybody compared Roon SQ versus Pure Music and/or Audirvana Plus SQ?


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## 7ryder

There's some activity over on computeraudiophile.com from mac folks, you might check over there.


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## deuter

No one here using roon? 
  
 How do you find the sound quality.


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## nepherte

I got a trial going on. The app provides a nice view on your music library. Browsing through albums has never been that easy before. There are still a couple of features missing that I would like to see in there like editing metadata. The music sounds good to my ears but haven't heard other players like JRivers. The main downside is the pricing.


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## 7ryder

I have been using Roon with JRiver's WDM on my desktop system, so the sound is great, 'cause it is JRiver!  
  
 I have been having problems with it, though, in my main system - the PC keeps crashing when I use Roon - either with JRiver's WDM driver or Schiit's Gen 3 USB driver (I have Yggy in the big rig, an Ayre QB-9 DSD in the desktop system). 
  
 JRiver is stable using Schiit's driver on that PC.  I have been conversing with Roon on their forum about it and hopefully they can sort it out before my 14 day trial expires; otherwise I'll be cancelling.


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## deuter

7ryder said:


> I have been using Roon with JRiver's WDM on my desktop system, so the sound is great, 'cause it is JRiver!
> 
> I have been having problems with it, though, in my main system - the PC keeps crashing when I use Roon - either with JRiver's WDM driver or Schiit's Gen 3 USB driver (I have Yggy in the big rig, an Ayre QB-9 DSD in the desktop system).
> 
> JRiver is stable using Schiit's driver on that PC.  I have been conversing with Roon on their forum about it and hopefully they can sort it out before my 14 day trial expires; otherwise I'll be cancelling.




I was A B testing roon and jriver last night. I inconclusive but have a feeling there is a difference.
What is this jriver wdm and how so I use it ?
Does it mean the interface is roon but musoc gets played through jriver and subsequently my ASIO drivers in jriver ?


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## 7ryder

if you are using JRiver version 20, a driver comes along with the software.  Here's the link on how to set it up http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.0
  
 And, yes, you can use JRiver as a driver just like you would your DACs driver in JRiver.  Beware that there currently are some issues with the driver and Roon...little hiccups during playback.


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## deuter

7ryder said:


> if you are using JRiver version 20, a driver comes along with the software.  Here's the link on how to set it up http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92593.0
> 
> And, yes, you can use JRiver as a driver just like you would your DACs driver in JRiver.  Beware that there currently are some issues with the driver and Roon...little hiccups during playback.


 
 Ok get it now,  read your link attached.  But wouldn't we give my dac ASIO driver preference ? 
 Wdm gives you the ability to use jriver dsp processing.  I have my jriver audio set to my dac ASIO driver.


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## 7ryder

yes, don't change anything in your JRiver set up.   Once you activate the driver in JRiver, it should show up as a "zone", just change the zone in Roon.


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## deuter

7ryder said:


> yes, don't change anything in your JRiver set up.   Once you activate the driver in JRiver, it should show up as a "zone", just change the zone in Roon.


 
 But does this mean jriver will continue to use my ASIO driver?


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## 7ryder

If you have it set up in JRiver to use the ASIO driver, Roon will use the ASIO driver when you use the JRiver WDM


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## deuter

7ryder said:


> If you have it set up in JRiver to use the ASIO driver, Roon will use the ASIO driver when you use the JRiver WDM


 
 Nice,  hoping this works.


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## deuter

Tried I this evening,  not sure what's wrong  but get static like sound or sometimes music plays but there is constant digital noise.


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## 7ryder

Yes, like I said, there are some issues with the JRiver WDM driver...that's one of them.  They are aware of it and some fixes are supposed to come out shortly with the next software update.  If you go to the Roon Labs forum, in the support section there are threads about the WDM driver issues and what they are doing to try to fix it.


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## pedalhead

I've been playing with the trial version today a little & so far it looks quite promising.  By far the biggest win for me is the AMG data it pulls in.  I currently spend a huge amount of time browsing the Allmusic web site and having all that data integrated into the player is almost enough to make it worth the (steep) price for me. Tidal integration looks fairly seamless, although ironically I recently ditched Tidal in favour of Qobuz as I find the latter superior in a number of ways. Roon claim it cost them $500k to integrate with Tidal and as Qobuz is in bankruptcy protection they're not minded to spend the resource on it.  A shame, but understandable.
  
 I've also been unable to get the JRiver WDM driver working, but I think it's a JRiver issue in my case as nothing is working with it.  Odd, because it worked fine when I last used it a couple of months ago.
  
 The clear weakness to my mind at the moment is the lack of tagging support, one of the things I really like about JRiver. It's also tricky to identify different versions of the same album...for example, a vinyl rip vs a remastered vs an original master of the same album. I suspect I could use a workaround by changing how I tag these different versions, but that would be a pain.
  
 I found this video on CA.  Half an hour run-through of the product. I haven't watched it all yet but might well be interesting...
  

  
 Anyway, I shall definitely be playing with this some more during the trial period.  Whether it'll be enough to justify the steep price...especially if I want to stick with Qobuz rather than Tidal...I'm not sure.


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## Rumiho

Decided to go with the trial myself and while the interface is very nice it does not play well with music/artist names not in English and pulled a large amount of incorrect metadata for my library so it looks like I will pass until they better sort that out.


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## bigshutterbug

Yes, I love the browsing features, and easy access to album and artist info. I have not yet compared it to other programs for sonics, but hope to soon.


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## Audio Addict

Just finished my 14 day trial and made the commitment as it seems to consistently get better with each new build.  The addition of the Android remote put it act my fingertips, which is really needed to really be able to read what's playing off the server core.  I know my laptop could be used as the remote but when I am listening, I don't want to have it sitting on my lap to control.  The Android app makes this possible.  
  
 What I also learned was with the large selection of files I have on my laptop, I can make Roon the music manager by unauthorizing the server core.  
  
 I have used it with both my PWD MKII off the server core as well as my Geek Out off the laptop remote and the sonics are excellent.  I had been using JRivers v20.108 but Roon is just such a clearer / easier interface.  I found myself listening for much longer period as I started using Roon instead of JRivers.  
  
 I will say the forum support has been very good, hopefully it will stay at the current level but since they really are a startup, one never knows.


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## pedalhead

Yup, I agree. I've also signed up for a subscription. I'm find Roon to be very solid right of the gate, and the developers are (currently) very responsive to suggestions and issues. The integration with AMG data is definitely the highlight, but it's also wrapped in a very tidy and intuitive interface. Colour me impressed. Just looking forward to ASIO support and full sub genre and style interaction with Tidal, both of which are apparently coming soon.


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## DrTone

I signed up for a lifetime subscription today.  Love the Tidal integration!
  
 1) I do believe more advanced tagging is coming soon.  Along with the ability to config roon to use certain tags from your source files instead of the tags from their online sources without loosing all their extra collected metadata.  Example: Most Dave Matthews Band albums show up as Dave Matthews where I want them to use my Album Artist tag.
 2) ASIO support is right around the corner.  Which might allow you to use J River's ASIO driver instead of the WDM.


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## Audio Addict

The lifetime membership is worth a lot if you are 21 not so much if you are 65


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## Chikolad

A lifetime membership costs roughly like 4 years of yearly subscriptions. If you like the service and think it will still be relevant 4 years from now, you should prefer the lifetime membership


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## Audio Addict

chikolad said:


> A lifetime membership costs roughly like 4 years of yearly subscriptions. If you like the service and think it will still be relevant 4 years from now, you should prefer the lifetime membership




No doubt the lifetime option is the better way to go financially.

Maybe I can figure out a way for it go on forever.


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## 7ryder

drtone said:


> I signed up for a lifetime subscription today.  Love the Tidal integration!
> 
> 1) I do believe more advanced tagging is coming soon.  Along with the ability to config roon to use certain tags from your source files instead of the tags from their online sources without loosing all their extra collected metadata.  Example: Most Dave Matthews Band albums show up as Dave Matthews where I want them to use my Album Artist tag.
> 2) ASIO support is right around the corner.  Which might allow you to use J River's ASIO driver instead of the WDM.


 
 I also signed up for the lifetime plan a few days ago.  Yes, the Tidal integration is great, yet I don't think Tidal sounds as good as files pulled from my NAS.
  
 Regarding your comment about the JRiver ASIO driver, AFAIK the only option is the WDM driver; I've never seen a driver from JRiver besides this one and I use it on my dedicated PC w/ Yggy.  
  
 Is there a driver I haven't seen?


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## DrTone

7ryder said:


> I also signed up for the lifetime plan a few days ago.  Yes, the Tidal integration is great, yet I don't think Tidal sounds as good as files pulled from my NAS.
> 
> Regarding your comment about the JRiver ASIO driver, AFAIK the only option is the WDM driver; I've never seen a driver from JRiver besides this one and I use it on my dedicated PC w/ Yggy.
> 
> Is there a driver I haven't seen?


 

 It's probably not available on Mac.  It might have been introduced in v20.  Anyway you can find it under General->Features it has to be enabled.


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## 7ryder

drtone said:


> It's probably not available on Mac.  It might have been introduced in v20.  Anyway you can find it under General->Features it has to be enabled.


 
 I'm on a PC and that's the WDM driver which I'm currently using with Roon.


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## Chikolad

I'm contemplating buying a subscription, but what I saw in the very short trial I had does not justify the high asking price IMO. 
 Do you know anything about new features to be added soon besides DSD support?


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## 7ryder

No idea.  I suggest you check their forums if this is important to you for making a decision.


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## Chikolad

Thanks


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## DrTone

chikolad said:


> I'm contemplating buying a subscription, but what I saw in the very short trial I had does not justify the high asking price IMO.
> Do you know anything about new features to be added soon besides DSD support?


 
  
 The forums are chalked full of mentions of stuff in the roadmap.
  
 1) More advanced tag editor along with the ability to use file tags for certain things like album title instead of what's in their database.
 2) DSP support.
 3) Local download and playback
 4) Headless version
 5) iOS app.  Android and iOS apps will get jump list support in an update.
  
 etc
  
 From just the top of my head.  They are very responsive in their forums, one of the reasons I jumped on board so quick.


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## Chikolad

drtone said:


> The forums are chalked full of mentions of stuff in the roadmap.
> 
> 1) More advanced tag editor along with the ability to use file tags for certain things like album title instead of what's in their database.
> 2) DSP support.
> ...


 
  
 Thank you Doctor!
  
 What does headless version mean?
 Local download == from Tidal?


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## nepherte

Partial DSD support has already been added. It can playback DSD over DoP or downsample on the fly to PCM. I Tested the former today. Works without any hiccups. Native DSD playback will be added together with ASIO in a future release.


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## DrTone

chikolad said:


> Thank you Doctor!
> 
> What does headless version mean?
> Local download == from Tidal?


 

 Headless is a version without graphical user interface for machines that are dedicated at your audio hardware and may or may not have a display and keyboard hooked up to them.
  
 Local download from Tidal as of right now, no.  They aren't licensed to download from Tidal I read somewhere.  Download from your personal music collection in Roon to an iOS/Android devices or another laptop to take your music on the road with you.
  
 The local download feature is something a desperately want on my iPhone as a despise iTunes and hate having to use it to get my music on it. Right now I just download flac from Tidal using their app.


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## Chikolad

drtone said:


> Headless is a version without graphical user interface for machines that are dedicated at your audio hardware and may or may not have a display and keyboard hooked up to them.
> 
> Local download from Tidal as of right now, no.  They aren't licensed to download from Tidal I read somewhere.  Download from your personal music collection in Roon to an iOS/Android devices or another laptop to take your music on the road with you.
> 
> The local download feature is something a desperately want on my iPhone as a despise iTunes and hate having to use it to get my music on it. Right now I just download flac from Tidal using their app.


 
  
 Local download sounds like a really cool feature, but I wonder if they will also have transcoding on the fly when doing it. My phone obviously cannot hold my entire library in FLAC so I convert it to MP3 (VBR -v1) first. It would be really really awesome to have an app that can synchronize my library to my phone for me with a click of a button.


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## DrTone

chikolad said:


> Local download sounds like a really cool feature, but I wonder if they will also have transcoding on the fly when doing it. My phone obviously cannot hold my entire library in FLAC so I convert it to MP3 (VBR -v1) first. It would be really really awesome to have an app that can synchronize my library to my phone for me with a click of a button.


 

 I assume they would offer some type of LAME encoding.  For me I might just do the flac files as couldn't possible hold anywhere near my 10,000+ album collection even in the lowest quality mp3.


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## Chikolad

drtone said:


> I assume they would offer some type of LAME encoding.  For me I might just do the flac files as couldn't possible hold anywhere near my 10,000+ album collection even in the lowest quality mp3.


 
  
 Well, my library is less than a tenth of yours but yeah, I'm starting to push the edge of my phone's (i.e. the 64 GB micro SD card's) capacity too


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## Bones13

I'm waiting on Auralic Aries support.  I should be all in at that point.  I hope the iOS versions include a nice iPad app with all the features of the PC version.


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## 7ryder

bones13 said:


> I'm waiting on Auralic Aries support.  I should be all in at that point.  I hope the iOS versions include a nice iPad app with all the features of the PC version.


 
 I assume that the iOS version will look the same as the Android version which looks like the desktop Roon software and has all of the features.


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## DrTone

7ryder said:


> I assume that the iOS version will look the same as the Android version which looks like the desktop Roon software and has all of the features.


 
  
 With one near future modification I was informed today.  An alphabetical jump list for artists and albums.


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## 7ryder

yeah, that's badly needed...I'm getting tired of using the search function.


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## DrTone

Those waiting for ASIO and native DSD support, Build 21 was just released.


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## Audio Addict

drtone said:


> Those waiting for ASIO and native DSD support, Build 21 was just released.


 
  
 Just updated my remote PC but will need to update my server and Android tablet.


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## DrTone

audio addict said:


> Just updated my remote PC but will need to update my server and Android tablet.


 

 I told my client to update the server at the same time and bam both machines got updated.
  
 Was there an Android update as well?


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## Audio Addict

drtone said:


> I told my client to update the server at the same time and bam both machines got updated.
> 
> Was there an Android update as well?


 
  
 I dont know about the Android, just assumed but we know what usually happens with anything assumed.


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## Audio Addict

audio addict said:


> I dont know about the Android, just assumed but we know what usually happens with anything assumed.




Just checked and there was an update to Roon tablet to build 21.


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## Chikolad

Wow those guys move fast...


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## pedalhead

Yep fantastic, it's great how swiftly we're getting these updates...and in my experience at least, they also seem to be bug free. Looking forward to trying out the new update when I'm at my laptop later this morning.


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## DrTone

pedalhead said:


> Yep fantastic, it's great how swiftly we're getting these updates...and in my experience at least, they also seem to be big free. Looking forward to trying out the new update when I'm at my laptop later this morning.


 

 You get software updates/fixes with a subscription service.  They aren't really free.


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## Chikolad

drtone said:


> You get software updates/fixes with a subscription service.  They aren't really free.


 
  
 I think he meant "bug free" and had a typo


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## DrTone

Yep, I see that now.  Sorry!


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## Chikolad

So I bought a year's subscription today. Was looking forward to get home from work and start playing around with the software and enjoy the music.
 Alas, it is not to be. 
 For some reason I'm still getting a "Membership Expired" message when trying to login (I had a trial account that I canceled). I contacted the support team and they replied that they're working on sorting it out.
 To be honest I don't understand why they couldn't sort it out that instance, it shouldn't be harder than "flicking a switch" in their system somewhere...
 Definitely a sour start.


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## 7ryder

they are very responsive and I'm sure they'll get it straightened out quickly


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## Chikolad

7ryder said:


> they are very responsive and I'm sure they'll get it straightened out quickly


 
  
 They did, about an hour after I wrote this


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## pedalhead

chikolad said:


> drtone said:
> 
> 
> > You get software updates/fixes with a subscription service.  They aren't really free.
> ...




Oops yes typo. I've fixed it


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## musicmac

Tried the trial and was impressed enough to get a one year subscription.
  
 Very nice player for a Version 1 product.  Sound quality is great playing any of my high res FLAC, ALAC, and DSD files.  Integration withy Tidal is very nice.  I think this is going to be a great high res audio integrated library solution.  
  
 The user experience is phenomenal - really enjoying all the external music information it brings into the experience.
  
 Can't wait to see where this software evolves with Version 2...


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## Chikolad

I'm REALLY enjoying it too!
 I had 2 brutal days of splitting up my FLAC+CUE albums to separate tracks and splitting DSD ISO files to separate DSF files, but it was worth it and now I'm relaxing and enjoying the experience.
 There are still a few kinks and bugs which no doubt will be solved, and you also need to get used to their philosophy of how to organize your metadata but when you do it makes sense.
 It has a few features I've always dreamed of having in a player and loads that I never thought of.
 Only problem is I might not be able to go back to using standard players, which means more $$$ each year


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## BenWaB3

chikolad said:


> I'm REALLY enjoying it too!
> I had 2 brutal days of splitting up my FLAC+CUE albums to separate tracks and splitting DSD ISO files to separate DSF files, but it was worth it and now I'm relaxing and enjoying the experience.
> There are still a few kinks and bugs which no doubt will be solved, and you also need to get used to their philosophy of how to organize your metadata but when you do it makes sense.
> It has a few features I've always dreamed of having in a player and loads that I never thought of.
> Only problem is I might not be able to go back to using standard players, which means more $$$ each year


 
 Unless you bite the bullet & get the lifetime subscription.


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## Chikolad

benwab3 said:


> Unless you bite the bullet & get the lifetime subscription.


 
  
 Indeed.


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## dmhenley

My first day using Roon (trial). It combined my local catalog and my Tidal collection. 
 There are some very cool features here - need some time to get familiar.
  
 So far no glitches, and sound quality is great.
  
 Initial thought- for those music fans who are always digging for new artists and enjoy the deep dive, this is worth the cost.


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## Duke40

After trialling ... I have moved over to a Roon subscription ... I love it because it helps me discover more new music.

I also now get so much more out of my Tidal subscription.

Plus, I like the album liner notes & artist info ... kind of getting back some of the things I missed from Vinyl, and providing them as part of an outstanding user interface experience.

Initially had a few setup issues, though Roon Support were extremely helpful ... I appreciate it.

Also a great user community over at the Roon Labs community support site, so other Roon subscribers helped me too ... for which I am very grateful.

Sound quality is excellent too.

Roon Labs appear very approachable to new feature requests ... they obviously could not do each & every personal request ... though if there is demand from a number of people, they appear very responsive. I think this is great.


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## dmhenley

I am also going to subscribe once the trial expires. 
  
 Roon supports my listening habits and helps me find new music. I like the interface, and it's inspired me to build more playlists...
 something I don't do often.
  
 Sound quality is great - I haven't been able to detect an audible difference between Tidal and Roon.


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## dmhenley

Alright. Roon\Tidal 
Anyone?
Didn't see another Roon post.


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## Krutsch

dmhenley said:


> Alright. Roon\Tidal
> Anyone?
> Didn't see another Roon post.


 

 I just subscribed this weekend and spent the last 2 days playing with it... love the user experience and I am having fun exploring my collection, along with the associated recommendations from TIDAL. 
  
 But, I suspect for most folks, they "know" their own collection and the price is too steep.
  
 I was in the above camp, until I really gave it a try and discovered that I didn't know my own collection as well as I thought I did.
  
 Roon is a real audiophile step forward... I hope they and TIDAL survive the unwashed masses and their desire to pay nothing for everything.


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## Byronb

krutsch said:


> I just subscribed this weekend and spent the last 2 days playing with it... love the user experience and I am having fun exploring my collection, along with the associated recommendations from TIDAL.
> 
> But, I suspect for most folks, they "know" their own collection and the price is too steep.
> 
> ...


 
 +1


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## dmhenley

I've also subscribed - just finished the trial period. Been subscribing to Tidal since the launch.
 It's an excellent app, and it suits me fine. I'm discovering more music now with Tidal and Roon enhances it further.


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## frankraindog

Some for me here: I've also subscribed - just finished the trial period
  
 This is a great piece of software and the sound quality is great.


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## pedalhead

Hey guys, a quick favour for you Roon users out there.  We're trying to drum up support to persuade Qobuz to work with Roon as Tidal do.  If this interests you and you have a moment, please vote up this thread on the Qobuz forum (and put a comment in there if you like).  Thanks!
  
http://aide.qobuz.com/forums/231766-ideas-ideen-idee%C3%ABn/suggestions/9092266-roon


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## toby23

+1 for Roon
  
 Fantastic UI and user experience.
 The perfect companion to a Tidal HiFi sub.


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## frankraindog

I've licenced versions of JRiver, Amarra, Audirvana, but since I've discovered roon I don't use them anymore.
  
 Roon is such a great experince with still more to come.


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## pedalhead

Yep, loving Roon here as well.  I still use JRiver occasionally, mostly just for library management purposes, but for the most part I'm all about Roon these days.  I just wish they'd make the app work on Intel Atom tablets.  I'd like to buy a tablet mostly just for Roon but Arm based tabs tend to be more expensive.


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## macrog

So far I am really impressed with Roon.  One thing I think could be better is licencing.  I want the ability to have a second PC managing a second library.  I dont mind paying more just not happy with a whole second licence fee.
  
 Roon's integration with Tidal streaming service is superb amd a great way to find new music.  All of Roon's suggestions so far have been great.  The interface is very simple and the metdata engine behind it seems more powerful than JRiver to me.
  
 Another limitation is that being a 32 bit program there is no memory play option and tidal can be a bit bright without a buffer.  To get around this I use JPlay on my PC to add a RAM Buffer.  Unfortunately nil option to do this on Mac though.
  
 Sound quality wise Roon is to my ear better than JRiver but not quite as good as Audirvana 2+, Amarra Symphony, Pure Music or Fidelia.  
  
 I am sure that a 64bit version (which is reportedly underway) with memory play option will address sound quality gap.
  
 Initially I thought the price was ridiculous but with use it is absolutely justifiable.
  
 Regards
  
 Macrog


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## Krutsch

macrog said:


> So far I am really impressed with Roon.  One thing I think could be better is licencing.  I want the ability to have a second PC managing a second library.  I dont mind paying more just not happy with a whole second licence fee.


 
  
 Hmmm. I have Roon installed on my MacBook Retina and on a Mac Mini, with two separate libraries. I only use one at a time, but I haven't purchased a separate license.


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## Audio Addict

krutsch said:


> Hmmm. I have Roon installed on my MacBook Retina and on a Mac Mini, with two separate libraries. I only use one at a time, but I haven't purchased a separate license.




Basically you deactivate one and use it on another computer. I don't know how the license is being used elsewhere if there isn't an Internet connection.


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## deuter

macrog said:


> So far I am really impressed with Roon.  One thing I think could be better is licencing.  I want the ability to have a second PC managing a second library.  I dont mind paying more just not happy with a whole second licence fee.
> 
> Roon's integration with Tidal streaming service is superb amd a great way to find new music.  All of Roon's suggestions so far have been great.  The interface is very simple and the metdata engine behind it seems more powerful than JRiver to me.
> 
> ...




Interestimg find.

I did trial the roon and do use the jriver, I did find a difference between the two but couldnt say which one is better.

What did you find the differences to be.


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## Krutsch

audio addict said:


> Basically you deactivate one and use it on another computer. I don't know how the license is being used elsewhere if there isn't an Internet connection.


 

 Nope. I haven't "deactivated" either one, ever. And, I switch between the two copies, routinely, without any problems. But, again, I only use one at a time, but one of them is left running all of the time. Either Roon isn't checking or they only check during playback. I could test this...


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## pedalhead

PSA guys - there's only one day left to take advantage of the 10% lifetime discount. I finally caved in as I can see myself using Roon for the long haul (presuming they stay afloat).  As a nice bonus, you also get refunded for the unused part of the annual subscription.


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## Audio Addict

pedalhead said:


> PSA guys - there's only one day left to take advantage of the 10% lifetime discount. I finally caved in as I can see myself using Roon for the long haul (presuming they stay afloat).  As a nice bonus, you also get refunded for the unused part of the annual subscription.


 
 Congratulations!!!!
  
 I find it so much more enjoyable to listen through than JRivers and I even upgraded to v21 to confirm where JRivers was going.


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## pedalhead

Ha, that's exactly what I did too (upgraded to JRiver 21). Honestly, I think JRiver is a good product (albeit with a steep learning curve), but I do wonder what the upgrade charge is for sometimes. I noticed zero difference for my usage moving from 20 to 21.

On the other hand I'm pretty chuffed about some upcoming features in Roon. Being able to use a Squeezebox as a Roon endpoint is huge (I have three Squeezeboxen). Integration with HQPlayer is also on the way. The main thing I still use JRiver for is audio analysis and DR ratings, but the Roon guys are even working on that. Oh, and I recently got a Galaxy Tab S2 and Roon works great on it, both as a remote and an end point. Next thing I'm thinking is having a dedicated Intel NUC as a headless Roon server for the living room once Squeezebox integration is live. Can you tell I like this software?


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## Audio Addict

Did anyone sign up to give Roon licenses? Very good pricing.


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## pedalhead

Hmm how did you find out the details? I don't see an announcement on their forum and haven't received an email about it..?


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## Audio Addict

Here is the link:
  
 https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-gift-subscription/5260
  
 I see you found the thread and asked.


----------



## pedalhead

Thanks, I'd missed the email. Excellent discounts!


----------



## Audio Addict

pedalhead said:


> Thanks, I'd missed the email. Excellent discounts!




Glad you were able to get the email.

I have been thinking who would appreciate one unfortunately most are happy with their iTunes library software.


----------



## jrflanne

I gave it a test and found it wasn't quite there. Yet. 
1) I found the UI to be a bit strange. Needs some work.
2) unstable. Crashes in OS X.
3) the requirement to purchase two licenses to use at two locations was an ender for me. 

Sounded excellent to me. The metadata was quite great. I will probably let them develop for a couple of months or so and give it another try.


----------



## Audio Addict

jrflanne said:


> I gave it a test and found it wasn't quite there. Yet.
> 1) I found the UI to be a bit strange. Needs some work.
> 2) unstable. Crashes in OS X.
> 3) the requirement to purchase two licenses to use at two locations was an ender for me.
> ...




You can deactivate the one license and reuse at the 2nd location. I do that with my laptop and my server.


----------



## Krutsch

jrflanne said:


> I gave it a test and found it wasn't quite there. Yet.
> 1) I found the UI to be a bit strange. Needs some work.
> 2) unstable. Crashes in OS X.
> 3) the requirement to purchase two licenses to use at two locations was an ender for me.
> ...


 

 1) The UI *is* a bit strange, but there are good reasons for what they've done. I've been active on their forum posting feedback and they have been very response. I give them high marks for how the Roon devs have responded to feedback from customers.
  
 2) Not my experience, at all. I run RoonServer on a Mac Mini and connect to it using both an iPad (Roon Remote) and with a MacBook Retina (Roon) and I've never seen a single crash anywhere in the system in the months I've used it. YMMV.
  
 3) You can run one library and multiple clients or more than one library and just deactivate the *other* one. I don't know what else to say on this one... they are trying to make a living.


----------



## Krutsch

New build is up: a lot of great work by the Roon team.
  
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-88-is-live/5676?u=krutsch


----------



## Audio Addict

Thanks for the heads up. I don't get out to their forums too often.


----------



## pedalhead

Yep, fantastic update, quite the Christmas present .  I now have Roon streaming to my Squeezeboxen and outputting via HQPlayer to my main headphone rig.  Marvellous!  A few nice interface updates too, not least the improved album info expansion thingy.


----------



## watchnerd

deuter said:


> No one here using roon?
> 
> How do you find the sound quality.


 
  
 I'm using it, love it.


----------



## Byronb

watchnerd said:


> I'm using it, love it.


 
 +1


----------



## jazzfan

deuter said:


> No one here using roon?
> 
> How do you find the sound quality.


 
  
 I purchased a Lifetime membership, I use it and I like it. I have no issues with Roon from a sound quality perspective and Roon does many things well. However, Roon being a relatively new software product, is not totally without issues. I've encountered several issues, including MBP DSD256 playback issues, Tidal playlist synchronization issues, and Artist Discovery playback issues to name a few. In fact, in some respects I've felt very much like a beta tester for Roon. Head over to the _Roon Support Forum_ to get a better sense of the extent of issues being encountered.
  
 That said, I feel Roon support has been responsive to issues. I'm sure they are doing their best to resolve as many problems as possible and I expect the product will continue to improve as the product matures.


----------



## jrflanne

I purchased a year's worth. Tidal gave me a free 3 months. Seems to work ok but the SQ doesn't quite match Audirvana. Roon dropped out this morning on my home office computer. Aggravating but I'm not going to judge one way or the other. iTunes never does, even when using Apple Music. So there is that.


----------



## Krutsch

jrflanne said:


> I purchased a year's worth. Tidal gave me a free 3 months. Seems to work ok but the SQ doesn't quite match Audirvana. Roon dropped out this morning on my home office computer. Aggravating but I'm not going to judge one way or the other. iTunes never does, even when using Apple Music. So there is that.


 

 I've been losing the vision on Roon, myself. At the end of the day, you end up curating your library twice and I am not happy about that.
  
 Also, with respect to playback devices (i.e. RAAT or what they used to call RoonSpeakers), I've been following a forum for a favored hardware vendor. They ran an internal, blind test between their normal playback methodology and Roon playback and their test subjects preferred the former 100% of the time.
  
 I don't know... it's starting to feel like a lot of extra work, at this point.


----------



## watchnerd

krutsch said:


> I've been losing the vision on Roon, myself. At the end of the day, you end up curating your library twice and I am not happy about that.
> 
> Also, with respect to playback devices (i.e. RAAT or what they used to call RoonSpeakers), I've been following a forum for a favored hardware vendor. They ran an internal, blind test between their normal playback methodology and Roon playback and their test subjects preferred the former 100% of the time.
> 
> I don't know... it's starting to feel like a lot of extra work, at this point.


 
  
 Not sure what you mean about curating your library twice...can you elaborate?


----------



## bmichels

*Has someone used  Microsoft Surface Pro + ROON as a source ?  *
  
With ROON installed on it, the *1Tb* version of *Microsoft Surface Pro *4 could be the ultimate "transportable" source when attached to a HUGO or another portable DAC or even a DAVE. . . as long as the USB-out is clean of jitter and sound good ?
  
Are there a lot of windows's tweaking needed to optimize it for best SQ ?  Audiophile Optimizer ?
  
 1Tb *Microsoft Surface Pro *4  + ROON + HUGO = very exciting...


----------



## Krutsch

watchnerd said:


> Not sure what you mean about curating your library twice...can you elaborate?


 

 Sure... use it for a while and you will see what I mean.
  
 Periodically, I search for an artist and then notice that one or more albums are missing from the collection of albums I own from that artist. So, I search of the album and see that it is "unidentified". Then, I go through the process of matching it with what's in Roon's database, but often times there isn't an exact match. Sometimes it's just a difference in track lengths, but sometimes it's a difference in tracks themselves (e.g. something I downloaded from HD Tracks has extra tracks, may be in a different order from what's in Roon's database, which is really just AllMusic.com).
  
 And so on and so forth...
  
 I've had to manually group albums and edit meta data a number of times and it's tiring.
  
 But the playback model is the worst, IMO, but if you like it, it's all good. Personally, I've gone back to Audirvana to listen to my own albums and just use the native Tidal app for streaming.


----------



## lextek

Very, happy with Roon. Still figuring some things out. One great thing is it works. No crashes or hiccups here.


----------



## Krutsch

krutsch said:


> Sure... use it for a while and you will see what I mean.
> 
> Periodically, I search for an artist and then notice that one or more albums are missing from the collection of albums I own from that artist. So, I search of the album and see that it is "unidentified". Then, I go through the process of matching it with what's in Roon's database, but often times there isn't an exact match. Sometimes it's just a difference in track lengths, but sometimes it's a difference in tracks themselves (e.g. something I downloaded from HD Tracks has extra tracks, may be in a different order from what's in Roon's database, which is really just AllMusic.com).
> 
> ...




Well, I have to back-peddle that statement, somewhat. All of the above does drive me a little crazy, but downloaded HQPlayer and hooked it up with Roon last night.

Wow... Amazing sound quality and I'm really impressed with what the software does with red book audio, including Tidal content.


----------



## frankraindog

I'm wondering how this great software get's so little attention over here, what are head-fi people using to play their music?


----------



## AladdinSane

JRiver user here for many years but I recently signed up for Roon. For me, it's really hard to switch when you've been committed to something like JRiver or, I'm sure other, "deep" media players for a significant period of time. You have a lot invested in a set up. Roon's integration with Tidal makes it worth it for me  but I'm not sure yet if it will be long term relationship. I still don't know some things about Roon that I know about other players  (e.g. bit perfect playback). That's on me for not researching but I'm just enjoying the interface right now, Tidal integration and ease of choosing where to send audio signal. Now it's basically no harder on JRiver but Roon is definitely prettier. I guess I have year to figure out if Roon and I will last.


----------



## bmichels

Since DAVE is so imune to the source quality, I will be able to keept my Auralic ARIES ... Now that it's software is FINALY stable and that it can act as a ROON endpoint.

So my question: in order to use ROON with the ARIES, I will need to run ROON server on some kind of PC that stay on my netork ? Right ? But... I do not want to ad a PC to my audio system !

So.*..are there available already some NAS that can run ROON server by themself WITHOUT any PC involved ?*

This will be Great. Indeed I want to avoid leaving a PC on all the time and this will give me a good reason to finaly use a NAS instead if a USB HD ( USB Hd Is not stable with the ARIES when the library excess 1 Tb).


----------



## Audio Addict

Roon 1.2 Launched just in time for Axpona.
  
 https://community.roonlabs.com/


----------



## deuter

audio addict said:


> Roon 1.2 Launched just in time for Axpona.
> 
> https://community.roonlabs.com/


 
 Loving it, upgraded yesterday.


----------



## pedalhead

Yup, Internet radio support means I'm getting close to decomissioning Logitech Media Server for my Squeezeboxen


----------



## dmhenley

With any new product, there will be issues/bugs, and I've experienced some minor interruptions. 
 As a tool for discovery, I've found the Tidal/Roon combo to be an excellent match for my listening habits. 
 I've found more new music this past year - mostly because I enjoy digging with Roon.


----------



## S Crowther

Pity the SQ is not better.


----------



## bmichels

I am considering using a *1tb* Microsoft Surface PRO 4 with ROON as my only source for my portable USB DAC (HUGO or WOO WA8 or ....) attached to It and for my home DAC. 



So, NO Wifi or Ethernet connection at all to my network or a NAS. 

Just Tablet+ROON > USB > DAC ! ( this is what make my solution usable every where ). 

--> Is is a good solution SQ wise or do I really need to use Ethernet in the chaîn to get the most of ROON SQ. ( I read that, in order ro get the best SQ out of ROON, we need to use ROON's Ethernet protocole to re-assemble the data packs ! Can someone explain ? )

Thanks in advance

PS: what is ' HQ player ´ and how do you integrate It with ROON ( I thought that ROON was a stand alone player !?)


----------



## Audio Addict

bmichels said:


> PS: what is ' HQ player ´ and how do you integrate It with ROON ( I thought that ROON was a stand alone player !?)


 
  
 Here are a couple of links on the Roon Community forum that talk about HQ Player.  I don't use it so I can't say much.
  
 https://community.roonlabs.com/t/why-do-audiophiles-like-hq-player/6210
  
 https://community.roonlabs.com/t/what-do-most-people-use-hq-player-for/7393


----------



## Duncan

I'm trialling both HQPlayer and Roon, and I love the combination - however, one thing that irks me, running Windows, that whenever I switch tracks on Roon, HQPlayer then pops up on my taskbar (which I have as 'auto-hide'), wish that didn't happen...

Other than that - am pretty much there in terms of enjoyment, and I think (with Tidal integration also) that I'll end up subscribing / paying for both products.

Presume I have it set up pretty much right...


----------



## bmichels

I finaly installed ROON trial version on my Windows Tablet. 

I like It quite much so far but what I find anowing Is to have my own local music files MIXED with TIDAL on-line albums in the same lists. Sometime this Is fine, but sometime I would like to see ONLY my local files.

--> Is there a way to display only my local files when I do not want to see them MIXED with the on-line TIDAL albums ? Is there a switch tidal-off ? 

Can I also display only the files that are stored in a spécific local folder ?


----------



## sfoclt

duncan said:


> Presume I have it set up pretty much right...


 
  
 Looks good.  It's always DAC dependent but I preferred poly-syn-EXT / DSD 7 / DSD256.  The poly-sync-ext filter was the one that really kicked in with my set-up.  Broad soundstage with pinpoint imaging at the same time.  Is your SDM bitrate maxed out (11289600)?  Mine shows 49152000 and I get DSD256 playing.  I leave it to the maximum on the settings popup and then Auto on the main page and it'll max out what your hardware can do.


----------



## Duncan

sfoclt said:


> Looks good.  It's always DAC dependent but I preferred poly-syn-EXT / DSD 7 / DSD256.  The poly-sync-ext filter was the one that really kicked in with my set-up.  Broad soundstage with pinpoint imaging at the same time.  Is your SDM bitrate maxed out (11289600)?  Mine shows 49152000 and I get DSD256 playing.  I leave it to the maximum on the settings popup and then Auto on the main page and it'll max out what your hardware can do.


You are correct, it wasn't at the highest sample rate...

I'm happy to be brandished a noob, but I do not know how to get DSD from PCM (to see if it is worth using the DSD decoding) - the DAC can happily play DSD256 if that is what the file is, but for PCM I get 352.8/32 - setting as DSD on the front page causes the program to crash...

Any clues on how to get it to try?

Thanks,

[Edit] Sussed it, it was the tickbox for AltDSD - untick that, and - all is good


----------



## sfoclt

Are you getting DSD256 now?  Because that with poly-sync-ext (for me) was what tempts me to buy.  I have 8 days left in my own trial.
  
 Before finding that arrangement, I was actually preferring everything at 32/384 (again, on the settings page I just pick the highest bitrate and let HQPlayer find the maximum the hardware can do).  Right now I'm playing with an older PS Audio DAC I have that can only do 16/48 so I'm experimenting to see if any arrangement of settings can make that old piece of gear sound better (otherwise back into the storage closet!).


----------



## Duncan

Yes. DSD256 - interestingly the Pioneer DAC that I'm using only 'supports' DSD128, but its DAC (ESS9016) supports DSD256, so - is playing back with no problem, but - the bitrate shown on the front panel of the DAC is just dashes
Haha.


----------



## sfoclt

When mine does DSD256, the bitrate shows 11.2896 MHz, so that's probably what should go there.


----------



## Duncan

it plays back fine, so - all good, I can live with the dashes 

Anyhow, to confirm...


----------



## sfoclt

Do you know what the 256+fs does vs just DSD7?  I didn't see the answer to that in the manual.


----------



## Duncan

I would believe it is ensuring 256x oversampling of redbook, which would tie in with Quad DSD...

Borrowing from Wikipedia:



> The Merging Technologies Horus AD/DA Converter offers sample rates up to 11.2 MHz, or four times the SACD rate. This is also referred to as DSD256 because the sample rate is 256 times that of CD.


----------



## Duncan

So, one week into my two month trial, and other than Tidal and HQPlayer integration (brilliant!), am unimpressed with library management...

A tiny snippet from my albums...



Is there something I'm missing on how to tidy up albums so that they're displayed as albums, and not split up like this?

Thanks.


----------



## estreeter

duncan said:


> So, one week into my two month trial, and other than Tidal and HQPlayer integration (brilliant!), am unimpressed with library management...
> 
> A tiny snippet from my albums...
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I believe there is a setting that controls how 'duplicates' are dealt with by roon, but I have the opposite problem with my 60-day membership (per my AQ DFB purchase) : almost no imagery or metadata for my imported music and only a relative handful of the tracks in my iTunes library were even imported. You know you're in trouble when an AIFF copy of DSOTM - complete with extensive metadata - doesnt even result in a photo of the band in the 'Artists' view.
  
 I can see why the serious music geeks go ga-ga over this app, but for mine it's seriously over-rated. I'll go out on a limb and say that I believe I know more about Springsteen and 'Scandinavian Metal' than the Roon entries for either seem willing to impart - granted, they have a lot of ground to cover with so many genres / artists out there, but I'd much happier with a web-based app where you could nominate sources (Rolling Stone, NME etc) and pay a monthly subscription fee based on those choices. I admit that the sound quality is very good, but with the modest gear at my disposal atm, I just dont see myself actually paying money for Roon (or TIDAL, but that's another thread for another time).


----------



## sfoclt

If you right click on an album cover, it brings up an Edit window that allows you to change metadata, search the database, combine split albums, etc.  If you right click on two or more albums, it allows you to "Merge" them (among other options).


----------



## estreeter

sfoclt said:


> If you right click on an album cover, it brings up an Edit window that allows you to change metadata, search the database, combine split albums, etc.  If you right click on two or more albums, it allows you to "Merge" them (among other options).


 
  
 Thanks - I gave that a shot earlier in the week but I cant seem to access things like the artist BIO, and I remain gobsmacked that Roon didnt add metadata for Pink Floyd. I expect that a more experienced user might well fix my install with a few mouse-clicks, but for a newbie (IT degree notwithstanding  ), I'm underwhelmed.


----------



## MLGrado

Tried the trial last night.  
  
  
 At first, WOW, this stuff is wonderful.  Will never go back to JRiver, etc.  I don't believe that any two software players that are bitperfect should sound any different. They just should not.  After a couple hours of AB'ing, I could not shake the feeling Roon sounds better.  Just a tick more full and spacious.  It should not be any different.  The difference must be in my head.  But then again, does that make the difference, TO ME, any less a reality?  
  
  
 BUT. Today I am very disappointed.  I can't find/import several hundred of my albums.  Where are they???  Come to find out, Roon will not import SACD .iso.  SAY WHAT????   
  
  
 I have almost 400 SACD .iso rips.  JRiver sees them, and tags them in just as seamless a process as any other kind of file.  I suppose I could go through the tedious and time consuming process of converting all of them to DSF.  
  
 NO THANKS.  I have a life to live and music to listen to. 
  
  
 This, to me is a HUGE oversight.  I guess there probably aren't enough of us out there with a similar library to make it a priority.  Thankfully there are people elsewhere, like JRiver, that have made people with collections like mine a priority.  And when you consider the cost of entry between the two pieces of software??? No contest.


----------



## canali

i might try Roon, too from laptop/ipod touch 6....subscribing to Tidal..have 400 itunes..no flac (yet).
 so unsure if this mgmt program is 'too much' for me or not.
  
 still trying to understand it...came across this today, as well from Sonic Build.
  
 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sonicbuild-intros-accessible-audiophile-music-systems-300295580.html


----------



## brent75

canali said:


> i might try Roon, too from laptop/ipod touch 6....subscribing to Tidal..have 400 itunes..no flac (yet).
> so unsure if this mgmt program is 'too much' for me or not.
> 
> still trying to understand it...came across this today, as well from Sonic Build.
> ...


 
  
 I tried Roon for free with my DFR trial (60 days) - it's awesome. Definite sound improvement over iTunes. I tried Audirvana afterward, but was so used to the Roon experience by then I didn't like Audirvana.


----------



## Failed Engineer

It looks like the Sonic Build guy is just combining a Rasberry Pi ($35), Hifiberry Digi+ ($30 or $40 depending on model), free Linux software, and a $20 case and selling it for $219.  That is a rip off, and can EASILY be done yourself.  I have two of them in my system.  They do sound amazing, much much better than the price would indicate, but I hate this business model and they should be exposed for it.


----------



## canali

failed engineer said:


> It looks like the Sonic Build guy is just combining a Rasberry Pi ($35), Hifiberry Digi+ ($30 or $40 depending on model), free Linux software, and a $20 case and selling it for $219.  That is a rip off, and can EASILY be done yourself.  I have two of them in my system.  They do sound amazing, much much better than the price would indicate, but I hate this business model and they should be exposed for it.


 
 well to be frank you might want to hold back from judging him so fast...he seems to have credentials...i`d like to think most people who like their hobby aren`t ripping off others knowingly when bringing something to market.  maybe this guy feels he`s put in the time designing it, putting it all together etc...it`s all about convenience to the end user, afterall....i`m not at your level so don`t know.
 why don`t you reach out to him and have a discussion...give him the benefit of the doubt...you might come back with a changed mind ...or perhaps not.


----------



## nepherte

failed engineer said:


> It looks like the Sonic Build guy is just combining a Rasberry Pi ($35), Hifiberry Digi+ ($30 or $40 depending on model), free Linux software, and a $20 case and selling it for $219.  That is a rip off, and can EASILY be done yourself.  I have two of them in my system.  They do sound amazing, much much better than the price would indicate, but I hate this business model and they should be exposed for it.


 
 Not that I disagree, but selling something for twice as much as the original parts holds true for pretty much every audio company...


----------



## canali

nepherte said:


> Not that I disagree, but selling something for twice as much as the original parts holds true for pretty much every audio company...


 
  
 true.
  
 i reached out to the maker, Dean Clough, to clarify some points on the products, thinking Roon was all that was needed 
 to maximize my laptop playing Tidal...and would the new Oppo Sonos (wls) speaker work:
  
 his reply:
_``If they (oppo sonos etc) have a coaxial or TOSLINK S/PDIF input, yes they will.   _
_Maybe the will help: if you are familiar with Sonos, our  Bitstream and DAC products are similar in function to a_
_Sonos Connect, while our Amp product is like a Sonos Connect Amp.`_`


----------



## Failed Engineer

I don't disagree about margins, but what I want to know is if Hifiberry has signed off on him using their products without any sort of acknowledgement.
  
 Obviously the RPi's can be used as companies like Bryston are coming out with RPi based streamers, but I'm not sure what Hifiberry's stance is on it.  I've reached out to Hifiberry and I'll see what their response is.  If I am in fact wrong about Sonic Build, I will post an apology and retraction of my claim.


----------



## canali

failed engineer said:


> I don't disagree about margins, but what I want to know is if Hifiberry has signed off on him using their products without any sort of acknowledgement.
> 
> Obviously the RPi's can be used as companies like Bryston are coming out with RPi based streamers, but I'm not sure what Hifiberry's stance is on it.  I've reached out to Hifiberry and I'll see what their response is.  If I am in fact wrong about Sonic Build, I will post an apology and retraction of my claim./a


 
  
  i am sure your intentions are good ones.
  
 but being a new user, Roon does confuse me...
 thought i wouldn't need any other extras ...even what you mentioned, failed engineer,
 interests me...but also confuses me as I thought all i'd need for good sound from my laptop was covered:
 good iems/cans...flc 8s... check
 good dac/amp...chord mojo, etc...check
 good streamer...tidal hifi... check
 now, good software mgmt to override my windows 10 based laptop: Roon, check.
 but now also should check into peripherals as those components both you and sonic build mentioned.
  
 can you kindly elaborate more, please.
  
 lastly; trying both Roon against Tidal hifi by itself through my laptop to iems
 (for Roon have exclusive mode and all volume and crossfade turned off)
 ...the difference is minor....maybe i'm doing something wrong.


----------



## BlackstoneJD

Are there plans for SACD .iso support?


----------



## Audio Addict

blackstonejd said:


> Are there plans for SACD .iso support?


 
  
 I would suggest searching on the roon forum.
  
 https://community.roonlabs.com/


----------



## musickid

i'm new to music software and using a small earmax pro headphone system with modi multibit dac i'm curious about roon. could do with some help please.

1) is roon just a lovely database of artists and groups or does it function as a music enhancer like amarra for tidal, audirvarna plus when used with tidal hifi?

2) it can work with tidal hifi, so does it reproduce the tidal hifi sound in exactly the same manner, or does it as i stated enhance like amarra for tidal. little repetitive here apologies.

3)finally do amarra for tidal and audirvarna sound better and can they be integrated with roon. if i only wanted to commit to one service and i go for roon for its amazing database will roon support mqa if tidal do master streaming? i ask because i'm thinking of a new system that could be mqa ready. or should i not worry about mqa. any general advice for a newcomer would be great.


----------



## watchnerd

> or should i not worry about mqa


 
  
 You should not worry about MQA yet.
  
 Full blown MQA requires implementation at the beginning of the recording chain.  Only a few demo projects like those from 2L (Nordic classical label) meet that criteria.
  
 As for the rest of the music out there, do you really want to buy it all again?


----------



## musickid

if it starts with the recording how does tidal show signs it might introduce master streaming. does that mean it is not full blown proper mqa sound? also when you say buy it all again do you mean the same tracks done in mqa. i mainly use tidal hifi.


----------



## watchnerd

musickid said:


> if it starts with the recording how does tidal show signs it might introduce master streaming. does that mean i*t is not full blown proper mqa sound? *also when you say buy it all again do you mean the same tracks done in mqa. i mainly use tidal hifi.


 
  
 Right...it's not full blown MQA.
  
 I forget their specific term, but it's basically half-MQA -- only applied via remastering.
  
 If you're getting it through Tidal, okay, still free on the software side, but I wouldn't be shopping for a DAC based on what Tidal might or might not do with MQA.
  
 I'd wait until MQA reaches some level of critical mass before putting money into it.  It's just as likely to be stillborn.


----------



## canali

am trying tidal hi fi (again) this time with roon labs.
  
*seems they're coming out with an upgrade: 1.3*
  
_excerpt: ''Headphone listeners get a crossfeed filter – similar to that found in_
_Chord’s Hugo, Hugo TT or Fidelia – that can be switched on to flesh out the headstage.''_
  
 amarra is soon coming out with a windows 10 friendly version, too.
  
Coming over the hill: the monstrous Roon 1.3 by 


John H. Darkoabout 9 hours ago
*http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/*


----------



## Audio Addict

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/

Some really cool features coming.


----------



## watchnerd

audio addict said:


> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/
> 
> Some really cool features coming.


 
  
 Yep, I'm very much looking forward to it.


----------



## Topspin70

MQA master quality albums are up on Tidal. But the same albums stream as 16/44.1 on Roon. Am I right to say they won't show as Master until that big update?


----------



## watchnerd

I'd ask on the Roon forum.


----------



## canali

new and interesting from Chord:
*Poly: wireless streaming module*
Wireless streaming module
http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/product/poly/
  
 Roon ready, too.
 http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/product-type/streamers/
  
 new related threads on them:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/831347/chord-electronics-poly-add-on-microsd-and-advanced-wireless-module-for-mojo#post_13145452
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/831348/chord-announces-poly-hugo-2-and-blu-mkii-ces-2017#post_13145488
  
 Poly will be available later this year for £499 GBP.


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> new and interesting from Chord:
> *Poly: wireless streaming module*
> Wireless streaming module
> http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/product/poly/
> ...




  
 Mojopoly, eh.
  
 Might be just me but those names, especially in that font, sure don't go with the high-end SQ that we expect from them.


----------



## canali

topspin70 said:


> Mojopoly, eh.
> 
> Might be just me but those names, especially in that font, sure don't go with the high-end SQ that we expect from them.


 
 not cheap, man...and for me i'm pretty simple: 
 one laptop to cans/iems or powered speakers on desktop
 (for now)


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> not cheap, man...and for me i'm pretty simple:
> one laptop to cans/iems or powered speakers on desktop
> (for now)


 
  
 That's how it was for me. A laptop with Bit Perfect app straight to cans, then it's A+, then it's Roon, then a DAC before the cans, then a better cable, then a streamer, then a LPS...


----------



## canali

topspin70 said:


> That's how it was for me. A laptop with Bit Perfect app straight to cans, then it's A+, then it's Roon, then a DAC before the cans, then a better cable, then a streamer, then a LPS...


 
 lol
 yes i'm already using my mojo, df red or ifim micro as dac
 ...looking at the burson cable+ or something else which is a good 3.5 to dual rca
  
 i'm trying to avoid going down that rabbit hole.
 my bud once had a US$70k hi fi  system (his interconnects alone were each U$5k!)
 ...sold it all off and went simpler just a while ago.
 i don't want to repeat his crack like addiction, fate.


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> lol
> yes i'm already using my mojo, df red or ifim micro as dac
> ...looking at the burson cable+ or something else which is a good 3.5 to dual rca
> 
> ...


 
  
 We can only hope until someone invent audio rehab.
  
 Not to derail, but I think once Roon gets an MQA update and tidal floods in more MQA material, it'll be all gear shopping time again hoping to hear that last ounce of difference in the new format.


----------



## watchnerd

topspin70 said:


> We can only hope until someone invent audio rehab.
> 
> Not to derail, but I think once Roon gets an MQA update and tidal floods in more MQA material, it'll be all gear shopping time again hoping to hear that last ounce of difference in the new format.


 
  
 Not me.
  
 MQA provides nothing I want.


----------



## peterinvan

topspin70 said:


> MQA master quality albums are up on Tidal. But the same albums stream as 16/44.1 on Roon. Am I right to say they won't show as Master until that big update?




The MASTER quality albums pass through Roon to my Explorer2 DAC... Showing 48kHz at 24 bits. Sounds nice and clear.


----------



## Topspin70

peterinvan said:


> The MASTER quality albums pass through Roon to my Explorer2 DAC... Showing 48kHz at 24 bits. Sounds nice and clear.


 
  
 I managed to get that finally after setting ouput to exclusive for my dac. Thanks man.


----------



## Topspin70

peterinvan said:


> The MASTER quality albums pass through Roon to my Explorer2 DAC... Showing 48kHz at 24 bits. Sounds nice and clear.


 
  
 I managed to get that finally after setting ouput to exclusive for my dac. Thanks man.


----------



## Topspin70

Interesting that there isn't much talk here surrounding Roon 1.3. Or did I miss seeing another thread dedicated to it?
  
 https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-3-is-live/19239
  
 http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/


----------



## watchnerd

topspin70 said:


> Interesting that there isn't much talk here surrounding Roon 1.3. Or did I miss seeing another thread dedicated to it?
> 
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-3-is-live/19239
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/


 
  
 I mostly talk about it on other sites.


----------



## Audio Addict

topspin70 said:


> Interesting that there isn't much talk here surrounding Roon 1.3. Or did I miss seeing another thread dedicated to it?
> 
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-3-is-live/19239
> 
> http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/01/coming-over-the-hill-the-monstrous-roon-1-3/




I have not put ant time into figuring out what I should do differently. I looked at the community boards but to much chatter for me. So far I really have not paid attention or noticed a difference.


----------



## Topspin70

audio addict said:


> I have not put ant time into figuring out what I should do differently. I looked at the community boards but to much chatter for me. So far I really have not paid attention or noticed a difference.


 

 Pretty much the same case for me. The only thing I found useful was the indicator of the signal path quality (Lossless/High Quality). I use tagging a lot but have yet to figure out what the improvements actually do for me. And those new DSP settings seem like a big attraction but is clearly for the more sophisticated users who could understand what they all mean.


----------



## Audio Addict

topspin70 said:


> Pretty much the same case for me. The only thing I found useful was the indicator of the signal path quality (Lossless/High Quality). I use tagging a lot but have yet to figure out what the improvements actually do for me. And those new DSP settings seem like a big attraction but is clearly for the more sophisticated users who could understand what they all mean.




I went through the settings and just did not see anything. Someone mentioned now having EQ but I never found it.


----------



## wood1030

audio addict said:


> I went through the settings and just did not see anything. Someone mentioned now having EQ but I never found it.


 

 Changing your audio DSP settings(if you choose to) can be found in the "audio" section in settings:
  

  
 I'm still experimenting w/ different settings to try to get it just right.


----------



## Topspin70

audio addict said:


> I went through the settings and just did not see anything. Someone mentioned now having EQ but I never found it.


 

 Try going to Zone selection, click on the 3 dots against your desired output, and choose DSP Engine. They're all there. Crossfeed, headroom, EQ, etc. Do note their warning of fiddling with those settings which could lead to loud damaging noises shooting through our cans and into our ears. : P


----------



## Audio Addict

Thanks I thought I read they were changing specific frequencies. A software equalizer it seemed built into Roon. Maybe it was just wishful thinking.


----------



## wood1030

audio addict said:


> Thanks I thought I read they were changing specific frequencies. A software equalizer it seemed built into Roon. Maybe it was just wishful thinking.


 

 It's there in the DSP Engine settings page:


----------



## tme110

I have to say I was pretty impressed by 1.3.  I had a 30 day trail of Roon last year but it did nothing for me.  I'm on a 2 week trial now.  As soon as I signed in to my already loaded Roon core, it uploaded to the latest version and then started building the database.  I was able to listen to music immediately.  With no time spent on the net, it only took me a few minutes to set up the DSD to automatically upsample everything to max sample rate then convert to DSD128 (which I think may be the highest I can go using only a MS surfacePro laptop.  I think the crossfade function would be of interest to many on headfi.  There is a parametric equalizer to but I didn't have a need to play with that.  It's much simpler than trying to connect Roon to HQplayer to do the same thing on the old version.

  
 It give's a nice 'roadmap' of the entire audio change and tells you where any 'low quality' or lossy parts in the chain are.  TIDAL integration is nice too, if you use that. 
  
 Granted I use a microrendu which is already 'roon ready' (and highly recommended).  I may actually stick with it. I just liked that everything just worked, I had no issues, and I could figure out the 'hard' stuff pretty quickly.  The fact that it sounded good helped too.


----------



## wood1030

tme110 said:


> I have to say I was pretty impressed by 1.3.  I had a 30 day trail of Roon last year but it did nothing for me.  I'm on a 2 week trial now.  As soon as I signed in to my already loaded Roon core, it uploaded to the latest version and then started building the database.  I was able to listen to music immediately.  With no time spent on the net, it only took me a few minutes to set up the DSD to automatically upsample everything to max sample rate then convert to DSD128 (which I think may be the highest I can go using only a MS surfacePro laptop.  I think the crossfade function would be of interest to many on headfi.  There is a parametric equalizer to but I didn't have a need to play with that.  It's much simpler than trying to connect Roon to HQplayer to do the same thing on the old version.
> 
> 
> It give's a nice 'roadmap' of the entire audio change and tells you where any 'low quality' or lossy parts in the chain are.  TIDAL integration is nice too, if you use that.
> ...


 

 WORD TO THE WISE.
  
 When I first tried the 30 day trial run with Roon, I was a little less impressed. It seemed that it was a little more expensive than I was willing to pay at the time for what I was getting...integration with local files and my Tidal subscription. After the 30 days, I decided I was not going to continue with the annual subscription. A day or 2 later, I got an email from Roon asking me why I did not continue with their service. I gave my reasoning and the guy told me that BIG updates were on the way and that if I would keep (and pay for) an annual subscription, they would add an additional 3 months to the annual plan and he also threw in a 3 month pass to Tidal HiFi (which i didn't need since I'm already a subscriber).
  
 So, before you automatically renew/pay, it may be worth it to see if you can get a little bonus by playing hard-to-get. It worked for me (though that wasn't my intention).


----------



## Audio Addict

wood1030 said:


> WORD TO THE WISE.
> 
> When I first tried the 30 day trial run with Roon, I was a little less impressed. It seemed that it was a little more expensive than I was willing to pay at the time for what I was getting...integration with local files and my Tidal subscription. After the 30 days, I decided I was not going to continue with the annual subscription. A day or 2 later, I got an email from Roon asking me why I did not continue with their service. I gave my reasoning and the guy told me that BIG updates were on the way and that if I would keep (and pay for) an annual subscription, they would add an additional 3 months to the annual plan and he also threw in a 3 month pass to Tidal HiFi (which i didn't need since I'm already a subscriber).
> 
> So, before you automatically renew/pay, it may be worth it to see if you can get a little bonus by playing hard-to-get. It worked for me (though that wasn't my intention).




Too late, I joined as a lifetime member. Just wish I was 20 years younger so lifetime might actually feel like it was a bargain.


----------



## Audio Addict

wood1030 said:


> It's there in the DSP Engine settings page:




Thank-you. I had not drilled into those settings under each DAC I have receiving output frtom Roon.


----------



## Topspin70

I dragged the EQ curve around and seems to have found a nice setting for my iDSD Nano where I bumped up the mid bass and midrange. Starting to like this new feature, and certainly softened my purist view of having a flat 'uncoloured' signal.


----------



## canali

topspin70 said:


> That's how it was for me. A laptop with Bit Perfect app straight to cans, then it's A+, then it's Roon, then a DAC before the cans, then a better cable, then a streamer, then a LPS...


 
 lol
 i just found hardly used micro rendu shipped for US$560.
 now looking into the uptone lps 1 power supply..then it will
 be some new cables...then...ugh...
 ...Roon is offering me a free trial with their new 1.3
 (down the wormhole I go)
  
 still trying to understand the microrendu setup with my wls laptop (as a nas)
 ...have to get an eternet jack installed first


----------



## Topspin70

canali said:


> lol
> i just found hardly used micro rendu shipped for US$560.
> now looking into the uptone lps 1 power supply..then it will
> be some new cables...then...ugh...
> ...


 

 No regret at all for me as to the gear you mentioned, except I got the HDPlex 100W instead of the LPS 1. Just need to skip a few meals here and there. Email Jesus for help to set up the mR. He responds real quick and has an answer for everything, even for my embarrassingly stupid questions.


----------



## canali

topspin70 said:


> No regret at all for me as to the gear you mentioned, except I got the HDPlex 100W instead of the LPS 1. Just need to skip a few meals here and there. Email Jesus for help to set up the mR. He responds real quick and has an answer for everything, even for my embarrassingly stupid questions.


 
 yes he and adrian have been both helpful...
 as are the folks in the micro rendu thread on headfi.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/807223/sonore-microrendu-music-streamer-impressions/195#post_13245639
  
 now it seems as if i also need some sonore-cardas DC4 power cable
 http://www.sonore.us/DC4.html


----------



## Audio Addict

canali said:


> yes he and adrian have been both helpful...
> as are the folks in the micro rendu thread on headfi.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/807223/sonore-microrendu-music-streamer-impressions/195#post_13245639
> 
> ...




That seems a reasonable price as I picked up a WyWires similar cable for my Exogal Comet Plus and it was just a little more than that.


----------



## Patu

I just invested to one year plan. This was my fourth trial period with Roon and this time I finally decided to go for it. Last time I ended up with JRiver because I thought it sounded better. Now, after I've done some small adjustments in my setup and Roon was updated to 1.3, I couldn't tell which one was better. They do still sound different but neither one is clearly better. I was also impressed by all the improvements they did for version 1.3, it really shows how much work these guys put in to the software. But what's best in Roon is really the main idea of the software, the user interface. It's light years ahead of any other player. It makes it interesting to just browse your own library, browse artist photos, read reviews, lyrics etc. The discover feature rediscovers your own library. Many albums which have been forgotten have been playing here recently. With big collection, this feature is extremely valuable. Also, when integrated with Tidal, you find new music by familiar artists when Roon shows their music from Tidal. The price was always a problem for me but I finally got over it. The one year plan isn't that expensive in the end, $10 per month.


----------



## Chikolad

patu said:


> I just invested to one year plan. This was my fourth trial period with Roon and this time I finally decided to go for it. Last time I ended up with JRiver because I thought it sounded better. Now, after I've done some small adjustments in my setup and Roon was updated to 1.3, I couldn't tell which one was better. They do still sound different but neither one is clearly better. I was also impressed by all the improvements they did for version 1.3, it really shows how much work these guys put in to the software. But what's best in Roon is really the main idea of the software, the user interface. It's light years ahead of any other player. It makes it interesting to just browse your own library, browse artist photos, read reviews, lyrics etc. The discover feature rediscovers your own library. Many albums which have been forgotten have been playing here recently. With big collection, this feature is extremely valuable. Also, when integrated with Tidal, you find new music by familiar artists when Roon shows their music from Tidal. The price was always a problem for me but I finally got over it. The one year plan isn't that expensive in the end, $10 per month.


 
  
 If you end up wanting to switch to lifetime subscription like I did, don't wait till the year is over. If for instance you'll want to switch a month from now, they will refund you 11 months off the yearly subscription.


----------



## canali

chikolad said:


> If you end up wanting to switch to lifetime subscription like I did, don't wait till the year is over. If for instance you'll want to switch a month from now, they will refund you 11 months off the yearly subscription.


 
 I do get 2 mo free...have tidal hifi...just got my microrendu...just awaiting the uptone ultracaps lps1 power supply 
 and I'll check it out.


----------



## Ken57

Has anyone compared the SQ with the new ROON 1.3, with and without using HQ Player? (without doing any upsampling). (from Tidal HiFi). Thanks.


----------



## Audio Addict

ken57 said:


> Has anyone compared the SQ with the new ROON 1.3, with and without using HQ Player? (without doing any upsampling). (from Tidal HiFi). Thanks.




Sorry, I have not. I did just Fidelize the Roon computer and updated to version 7.7 tonight. Pretty inexpensive software price to minimize the impact on Windows on the audio chain.


----------



## HJW702

Any ideas how one can get a discount code for lifetime subscription?  It seems like something that comes from dealers or as a show adder, but I can't find any info on one... ready to pull the trigger on lifetime membership.


----------



## Patu

HJW702 said:


> Any ideas how one can get a discount code for lifetime subscription?  It seems like something that comes from dealers or as a show adder, but I can't find any info on one... ready to pull the trigger on lifetime membership.



Just ask for discount from Roon support.


----------



## canali

didn't realize there is any discount...good to know.

i have been experimenting with the EQ and having some fun with my focal alpha 50 desktop monitors.
gave it 2.5 more db of bass extension....slight smile in my curve...next up will be the crossfeed for my cans/iems.

question: when listening to Roon (via Tidal) i can's save or add any new music to my 'saved' Tidal lists.
seems i have to do that in Tidal, then they'll be updated/imported into the Roon Tidal.
am i doing something wrong?


----------



## Miracle1980 (May 17, 2017)

Have you guys managed to get a discount for Lifetime membership? I'm trying to find other 2 people to go for the 3 gift membership (10% discount). Anyone would be interested?


----------



## canali

Miracle1980 said:


> Have you guys managed to get a discount for Lifetime membership? I'm trying to find other 2 people to go for the 3 gift membership (10% discount). Anyone would be interested?


Yes


----------



## xcom

Miracle1980 said:


> Have you guys managed to get a discount for Lifetime membership? I'm trying to find other 2 people to go for the 3 gift membership (10% discount). Anyone would be interested?


I am


----------



## Alu

I love this program.
Before the trial I didn't see myself paying 100 quid a year for a player, but it's one of the most satisfying upgrades I made to my setups - laptop and desktop.
It's such a clean and beautiful UI and it makes me want to read all of the additional information that it provides on artists and albums - like I did back in the day when I sat down listening to a CD and reading the booklet.

Also the recommendations are spot-on.
I have discovered more new music that I actually enjoy during the last month than I did the last couple of years.
Good stuff!


----------



## Patu

Alu said:


> Also the recommendations are spot-on.
> I have discovered more new music that I actually enjoy during the last month than I did the last couple of years.
> Good stuff!



This has become almost a problem to me with Roon. I've discovered so many new artists and new records by old artists I had already forgotten, that I don't have enough time to listen to all the new music. 

Just kidding though, this is only a good thing. Is there anything better than discovering a new artist you instantly fall in love with after hearing the first few tracks.


----------



## canali

*interesting offers from Roon, coming.....their own end to end devices with Intel.*.
you can buy it in i3 or i7...or just buy the OS and have it built yourself to save $$$

*Roon announce Nucleus server*
by 


John H. Darko35 minutes ago
*
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/05/roon-announce-nucleus-server/#comment-143927*


----------



## Topspin70

Patu said:


> This has become almost a problem to me with Roon. I've discovered so many new artists and new records by old artists I had already forgotten, that I don't have enough time to listen to all the new music.




I on the other hand waste lots of time deciding what to listen to given so many albums to explore, and before I finish an album, I'm thinking of what to listen to next. But it's a happy predicament to have obviously.


----------



## tme110

canali said:


> *interesting offers from Roon, coming.....their own end to end devices with Intel.*.
> you can buy it in i3 or i7...or just buy the OS and have it built yourself to save $$$
> 
> *Roon announce Nucleus server*
> ...




Yea, I just used a Sonic Transport and am pretty happy with it.  It used sonic orbiter OS which is similar to ROCK that ROON uses on this.  But there are windows Sonic transports in case you want to run extra software.


----------



## fordski (Jul 7, 2017)

For Roon users who use the IOS remote control and wish the iOS device could serve as a player, the developer of iPeng has added the ability to use the player feature in iPeng with Roon. This effectively gives Roon playback ability through IOS devices. I’m currently listening to my Roon setup on my iPad through my mojo and greatly enjoying it.

It’s very simple to setup by simply installing iPeng 9.3 and the optional playback feature, click on  enable Squeezebox support in Roon settings/setup and your idevice will show up as a squeezebox device which can be enabled in Roon.


----------



## Topspin70

fordski said:


> For Roon users who use the IOS remote control and wish the iso device could serve as a player, the developer of iPeng has added the ability to use the player feature in iPeng with Roon. This effectively gives Roon playback ability through IOS devices. I’m currently listening to my Roon setup on my iPad through my mojo and greatly enjoying it.
> 
> It’s very simple to setup by simply installing iPeng 9.3 and the optional playback feature, click on  enable Squeezebox support in Roon settings/setup and your idevice will show up as a squeezebox device which can be enabled in Roon.



If I understand correctly, this means I can play files on my iOS device on top of those on my Roon Core?


----------



## fordski (Jul 7, 2017)

Topspin70 said:


> If I understand correctly, this means I can play files on my iOS device on top of those on my Roon Core?



Yes you can play all the music accessible through the Roon core including your Tidal music if you are subscribed. Of course you wouldn't need ipeng for your music files on your IOS device unless you're asking if Roon will play your local files? 

For any of you using IOS 11 beta there are some graphics glitches with iPeng but the player functionality works fine.


----------



## Failed Engineer

This is still local network only, right?  I think so, and I'd prefer not to spend $9 to find out.


----------



## fordski

Failed Engineer said:


> This is still local network only, right?  I think so, and I'd prefer not to spend $9 to find out.



I have not used this functionality so I don't know if it works. Suggest you visit the Roon Community as there was a discussion about this.

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/ca...ndpoint-yes-implemented-in-ipeng-9-3/23383/62


----------



## Failed Engineer

Thanks for the link to that thread.  It is indeed LAN only, as people are saying you need a VPN to access away from home.

One step closer to playback outside of LAN though.  I'm excited!


----------



## Topspin70

fordski said:


> Yes you can play all the music accessible through the Roon core including your Tidal music if you are subscribed. Of course you wouldn't need ipeng for your music files on your IOS device unless you're asking if Roon will play your local files?
> 
> For any of you using IOS 11 beta there are some graphics glitches with iPeng but the player functionality works fine.



Thanks. I was just wondering what it does in addition to the functions of the Roon remote app I already have on my iPhone.


----------



## joseph69

I know I'm very late to the party, but better late than never. I just finished reading this thread, and it seems most are very happy with Roon. I downloaded their 15-day free trial yesterday afternoon, and I'm also considering the addition of Tidal. This will be my second night listening to Roon coming from JRiver MC-21. I also intend to join the Roon Community Site as well to learn about the latest additions to Roon.


----------



## canali (Jul 24, 2017)

welcome...the roon community is a great place to learn more deeply on what Roon  and affiliates have to offer.
 i just took out their lifetime membership after my 2 mo trial was over (had 2 month due to being a microrendu customer)


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 24, 2017)

canali said:


> welcome...the roon community is a great place to learn more deeply on what Roon  (and affiliates) have to offer.
> i took their lifetime membership


Thank you.
I'm just learning how to navigate my way around and also enjoying the SQ of Roon which I'm finding different than JRiver so far.


----------



## fordski

joseph69 said:


> I know I'm very late to the party, but better late than never. I just finished reading this thread, and it seems most are very happy with Roon. I downloaded their 15-day free trial yesterday afternoon, and I'm also considering the addition of Tidal. This will be my second night listening to Roon coming from JRiver MC-21. I also intend to join the Roon Community Site as well to learn about the latest additions to Roon.



Welcome as well. Hope it works out well for you. I bought the lifetime membership shortly after it launched and have been enjoying it ever since.  The ability to have multiple zones to access is so convenient. I find when I listen using Roon I spend a lot of my time reading up on my favourite and new artists just like we used to when reading the album notes on vinyl. Roon has evolved a lot over the past couple of years with added functionality and additional capabilities. The latest addition of the ability to use iPeng to turn an iOS device into a remote player has been just awesome for transportable use around the house. 

I think you'll find it to be a great addition to your music experience. Enjoy!


----------



## joseph69

fordski said:


> Welcome as well. Hope it works out well for you. I bought the lifetime membership shortly after it launched and have been enjoying it ever since.  The ability to have multiple zones to access is so convenient. I find when I listen using Roon I spend a lot of my time reading up on my favourite and new artists just like we used to when reading the album notes on vinyl. Roon has evolved a lot over the past couple of years with added functionality and additional capabilities. The latest addition of the ability to use iPeng to turn an iOS device into a remote player has been just awesome for transportable use around the house.
> 
> I think you'll find it to be a great addition to your music experience. Enjoy!


Thank you.
So far I'm enjoying what I'm hearing, and how easy the UI is as well.


----------



## joseph69

Quick question: If I subscribe to Tidal, will my files and Tidals files be integrated, or separate from each other?
I would rather be able to see just my files if I wish.
Thanks!


----------



## DrTone

The integration is pretty nice.  The Tidal content will be clearly labeled.   I think you will find you won't want to filter just on your content.  If you have a local copy of album ripped and the Tidal version you can mark one as primary in Roon and it will only play back that version by default.

The integration is top notch.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for the info.
So no way to keep Roon/Tidal separate from each other at all because they will integrate automatically being I have Roon, correct?


----------



## DrTone

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> So no way to keep Roon/Tidal separate from each other at all because they will integrate automatically being I have Roon, correct?



No way to keep them separate.  You could filter on one or the other and save a bookmark to that filter if you really only want to see one or the other.


----------



## fordski

joseph69 said:


> Thanks for the info.
> So no way to keep Roon/Tidal separate from each other at all because they will integrate automatically being I have Roon, correct?



It really depends on how you want to use Tidal. For me I've completely changed the way I consume music and about half or more of my music listening is with Tidal as I find myself listening to more new music and less from my local library.

There are a couple of ways you can keep Tidal separate.

The simplest way is to never add Tidal music to your Roon library. There is an option when you select a Tidal album to listen to, to add it to your library via a button beside the play button, in which case it will show up in your Roon library. This I what I do to supplement my local library. The downside of this is that if you want to keep an album available from Tidal for future listening you must go back into Tidal and find it again or favourite it in a separate Tidal App.

The other option is to use the focus function which does give you the ability to focus only on your local library. It's a bit convoluted but here's the process:

1. Select any view under the library section in the drop down menu. (Artist, albums, etc.)
2. Select focus at the top left of the screen. A pop up will apear at the bottom.
3. At the far right of the pop up there is a box called inspector. Select it.
4. In the Inspector box click on the link "storage locations"
5. Tick the box for Tidal Library.
6. At the top of storage locations box a green box will appear with Tidal Libray. At this point your library is only showing your Tidal selections.
7. Click on the green box and it will toggle red which now means your library is now showing all your music EXCEPT the Tidal selections.

So there are ways to view your library without Tidal and I believe you can also do it through tagging but I've no experience with that. Personally I found after awhile I didn't bother to differentiate between Tidal and local files and as @DrTone mentioned you can select which ones you want as primary.

Also one tip when setting up Tidal an option will appear to add Essential Selections, I personally bypass that step as it will add a curated bunch of music to your library.

There's a lot of good tips on the Roon Communities and also in the Roon knowledge base that are quite helpful. https://kb.roonlabs.com/

Have fun!


----------



## joseph69

DrTone said:


> No way to keep them separate.  You could filter on one or the other and save a bookmark to that filter if you really only want to see one or the other.





fordski said:


> It really depends on how you want to use Tidal. For me I've completely changed the way I consume music and about half or more of my music listening is with Tidal as I find myself listening to more new music and less from my local library.
> 
> There are a couple of ways you can keep Tidal separate.
> 
> ...


So there is ways to keep Tidal separate!
Thank you both for your replies. I'm going to see if their is a free Tidal trial through Roon…if not I'll just purchase a 1 month subscription.
I had Tidal when it first came out years ago, but canceled, but I would like to try it again so I could discover some new music!


----------



## joseph69

I just added a Tidal track to my Roon playlist which will be coming up next. How do I know if Tidal is playing in "Hi-Fi" mode? 
Or is this irrelevant because Tidal is playing over Roon>microRendu? 
Thanks


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 26, 2017)

Just took a look at my Roon signal path and the source shows: "Tidal FLAC 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch". Should I also be seeing "Hi-Fi" in the description as well?
Thanks


----------



## fordski

joseph69 said:


> I just added a Tidal track to my Roon playlist which will be coming up next. How do I know if Tidal is playing in "Hi-Fi" mode?
> Or is this irrelevant because Tidal is playing over Roon>microRendu?
> Thanks



I'm not entirely certain of this, but I believe Roon only plays Tidal Hifi. You can verify the bit rate etc. by clicking on the blue light next to the song title on the progress bar at the bottom.


----------



## joseph69

fordski said:


> I'm not entirely certain of this, but I believe Roon only plays Tidal Hifi. You can verify the bit rate etc. by clicking on the blue light next to the song title on the progress bar at the bottom.


Yes, the blue light is the signal path which showed 
"Tidal FLAC 44.1kHz 16bit 2ch" as the source.


----------



## joseph69

@fordski 
Here is a quote from the Roon Community forum regarding my question: "How do I know if Tidal is playing in "Hi-Fi" mode?"

brianBrian LuczkiewiczRoon Labs: CTO
May '15
"Roon queries your Tidal account for the highest-quality format you are allowed to stream, and then requests streams in that format. Sometimes, Tidal delivers a lower quality stream than what we requested."

Thank you for your reply!


----------



## fordski

joseph69 said:


> @fordski
> Here is a quote from the Roon Community forum regarding my question: "How do I know if Tidal is playing in "Hi-Fi" mode?"
> 
> brianBrian LuczkiewiczRoon Labs: CTO
> ...


@joseph69 
Thanks for that info. How are you enjoying your Roon experience so far?


----------



## joseph69

You're welcome.
This is actually my 3rd night listening to Roon. This time I'm listening to Roon + Tidal and discovering new music, which is priceless. Roons SQ and UI is exceptional, and the Tidal intergration seems to be working seamlessly so far as well! I can see myself purchasing both when my trial expires.


----------



## joseph69 (Jul 26, 2017)

@DrTone
You're right about the Tidal + my library integration being very nice, I don't mind it at all. I added 2 albums to my library and I especially like that I can edit the Tidal albums as well.


----------



## fordski

joseph69 said:


> @DrTone
> You're right about the Tidal + my library integration being very nice, I don't mind it at all. I added 2 albums to my library and I especially like that I can edit the Tidal albums as well.



You're right about the integration, I find I've gotten to the point where I hardly distinguish between Tidal and my local library except when seeking out a special album. And since have having Roon/Tidal I've only purchased a few Hd Tracks albums. Although since retiring and moving south I do miss those Sunday trips to the used vinyl stores!


----------



## Whazzzup

I want a music visualizer while playing roon on a external music server, i hear that g force may work, any experience and how since a mic is not possible.


----------



## bearFNF

So, I jumped intp Roon with both feet. I am now waiting for my NUC to load ROCK...
Also made a hifiberry PI to serve it up to the living room.
Coming form a variety of other players/libraries Jriver foobar etc.

Loving finding new music... the radio function is great also.

Only issue I have been having is Tidal drops out every so often. Think this is my internet??


----------



## joseph69

This afternoon I just purchased an annual subscription for Roon +3months of Tidal free. Tidal has also dropped out and proceeded to the next track about 3x on me as well, which is why I didn't purchase an annual subscription for it as of yet.


----------



## Audio Addict

joseph69 said:


> This afternoon I just purchased an annual subscription for Roon +3months of Tidal free. Tidal has also dropped out and proceeded to the next track about 3x on me as well, which is why I didn't purchase an annual subscription for it as of yet.



Congratulations!!!  I have not looked back.  
I did try to get a transferable license but that did not fly.  I said with a lifetime license, it seems fitting given I could be 16 vs. 61 and have 45 more years of use


----------



## joseph69

Audio Addict said:


> Congratulations!!!  I have not looked back.
> I did try to get a transferable license but that did not fly.  I said with a lifetime license, it seems fitting given I could be 16 vs. 61 and have 45 more years of use


Thank you!


----------



## bearFNF

So got my NUC and m2 SSD, BUT, the memory is delayed...cant do nuthin' till the memory get here...


----------



## Whazzzup

no one running roon core on a server and want a music visualizer on there iMac running roon remote?


----------



## Topspin70

bearFNF said:


> So got my NUC and m2 SSD, BUT, the memory is delayed...cant do nuthin' till the memory get here...



I hear a lot of people are running roon on NUC. My core is on a mac mini, and controlled using Roon app on iPhone. Do you think there's any benefit getting a separate NUC to run roon?


----------



## Whazzzup

I use antipodes audio dsgt server and yes its absolutely worth it. Get it off your iMac.


----------



## bearFNF

The big benefit for me is that I wont need to start my main computer to play music. With the NUC running ROCK it will always be ready.
Just have to wait for the amps to warm up for headphone listening or turn on the KEF LS50W.


Topspin70 said:


> I hear a lot of people are running roon on NUC. My core is on a mac mini, and controlled using Roon app on iPhone. Do you think there's any benefit getting a separate NUC to run roon?


----------



## Topspin70 (Aug 10, 2017)

bearFNF said:


> The big benefit for me is that I wont need to start my main computer to play music. With the NUC running ROCK it will always be ready.
> Just have to wait for the amps to warm up for headphone listening or turn on the KEF LS50W.



Great. Here goes my upgraditis. Wonder if it's easy to migrate over and not lose my playlists, favs, tags, etc. I suppose I only need a NUC + HDD? Or is it a mini station with screen, keyboard, etc? I reckon I do have to read up on this being unfamiliar with Windows-based system.

UPDATE: I found this which probably explains everything I need to know.
()


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 10, 2017)

Yep, those are good videos. I plan on installing ROCK on my NUC as the OS instead of windows and running it headless. I'm also going to see what the difference is using an internal SSD for the media files instead of my NAS. The SSD M.2 would only have the OS on it you can't store media on it. So you have to have a second SSD or Spinning Disk to put the media on if you're going to make it a standalone system. Just another fun way to spend money.


----------



## Whazzzup

Sooo when you get this nuc going, I'm not capable and outsourced to antipodes, will anyone use a visualizer on your roon remote?


----------



## bearFNF

Not me, I won't have the pi endpoint or NUC hooked up to a monitor and the tablet screen just turns off.

I did look for an extension that could do it. But no joy there. You might ask in the roon forum.


----------



## Topspin70

That's something that didn't occur to me. I do access some features (DSP, device setup, lyrics, etc.) on my mac that don't appear in my remote app. I suppose I won't be able to anymore if I switch to a headless NUC-ROCK. Hmmm.


----------



## bearFNF (Aug 10, 2017)

Is remote app on  phone? I think it is optimized for phone display. but the setup options should still show up on the app on your mac. The rock just moves the core, you should still be able to control it the same way. I will see as soon as my memory shows up.

edit: yep, I just looked at my phone versus android tablet, vs the Win10 core I have now and the phone is missing the DSP setting and some of the Library manipulation items. It must be a processor capability thing. I hear the DSP takes a lot of oomph to drive.


----------



## Topspin70

Maybe I could have the NUC connected to input 2 on my screen and switch that on when I need to access some features. Other times, it will just run headless in its own.


----------



## Topspin70

Interesting read: 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/08/a-zero-config-e65-roon-endpoint-for-any-usb-dac/


----------



## bearFNF

yep, he has a few other articles on it.
I went hifiberry and the roon-hifibeery bridge, it does wifi also.


----------



## alpovs

Have they started supporting Chromecast Audio yet?


----------



## bearFNF

Not yet it seems, but it is on the roadmap.

There are a few peope that have gotten it to work using something called chrome casst audio stream, but they say it does not sound as good...??


alpovs said:


> Have they started supporting Chromecast Audio yet?


----------



## Ultrainferno

We published an article on ROON today, you can find it here: http://www.headfonia.com/blog-roon-overdue-revolution/
Tomorrow we also have a interview coming up with Roon's CEO


----------



## WayneWoondirts

Headfonia published the interview with Enno Vandermeer today, it also includes a promo code! 
A very good and insightful read.

http://www.headfonia.com/q-n-a-saturday-roon-labs/


----------



## Mediahound (Aug 25, 2017)

WayneWoondirts said:


> Headfonia published the interview with Enno Vandermeer today, it also includes a promo code!
> A very good and insightful read.
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/q-n-a-saturday-roon-labs/



I have an even longer trial code (60 days). Not posting it here since I'm not sure if it's allowed but PM me if interested. It's not mine, it's public, from a prominent YouTuber.


----------



## Whazzzup

I'm a lifer already. New roon update to boot


----------



## bearFNF

Headfonia did a QnA with roon and they put a Trial extension code at the end of the article.


----------



## purehifi192

I've decided to take the plunge w/ Roon and am interested in a lifetime membership.  Any current members interested in sponsoring the membership at the discounted rate as I work to get more people to join me?


----------



## timeslip

purehifi192 said:


> I've decided to take the plunge w/ Roon and am interested in a lifetime membership.  Any current members interested in sponsoring the membership at the discounted rate as I work to get more people to join me?



What do you think the rate will be? I may be interested


----------



## Audio Addict

Do you have a link to what is being suggested?


----------



## lcasadonte

I'm probably self validating my purchase but I went for the lifetime sub a couple of weeks ago.  You can only use it in one location but it seems you can activate and deactivate unlimited times so I can go from my boat to my home and use roon in both locations right now.  What initially sold my on roon was roon's ability to add tags and allow me to select those tags and play my library.  For instance I might tag a song jazz but roon adds instrumental, piano, ... and you can select a more narrow genre and play a dynamic playlist.  Roon also showed you duplicate songs and automatically selects the highest quality as the primary song to play back.  The discovery and news feed like functions were just gravy for me on top.  Roon truly has given me an ability to interact with my music library in ways I could not before, discovering/rediscovering content I already have.  Highly worth the look but not cheap.  There are also no other music servers out there that come close to the functionality of roon.


----------



## purehifi192

What ultimately got me over the hump is that I'm on a Mac and, in my opinion, there are no great FLAC library managers.  I'm specifically looking for something smart enough to use the original album release year versus the media issue year.  I know since I'm using MusicBrainz Picard to do the matching that I can change thing, but I don't want to edit the information.  I don't even know if Roon handles this correctly, but I know that Roon makes it so that it doesn't matter.  I do wish they supported Deezer in addition to Tidal.

I don't have any details on what the subscription would look like through a current sponsor.  I've seen a pack of 3 for 10% off but believe Roon has had some other offers out there as well (maybe I'm wrong here).  Maybe with the Holiday season, they offer some additional discounts.  No idea.


----------



## joseph69

purehifi192 said:


> I don't even know if Roon handles this correctly, but I know that Roon makes it so that it doesn't matter.


You can choose either Roon or the original file to show content...If that's what you mean.


----------



## purehifi192

I don't trust most of my tags thanks to iTunes match over the years.  Working on re-ripping everything FLAC with proper metadata, but that won't be for my total collection unfortunately.  Would love to have Roon respect my FLAC tags but use their info for my non-FLAC files.  Very specific use case though so not holding my breath that this will happen.


----------



## bearFNF

You can make Roon use your metadata from your files. You just use "focus" to show all your locally stored files and then select them all and set the preferences in the album editor.


purehifi192 said:


> I don't trust most of my tags thanks to iTunes match over the years.  Working on re-ripping everything FLAC with proper metadata, but that won't be for my total collection unfortunately.  Would love to have Roon respect my FLAC tags but use their info for my non-FLAC files.  Very specific use case though so not holding my breath that this will happen.


----------



## purehifi192

Awesome.  Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Mediahound

My video review is up:


----------



## redrich2000

I'm currently trialling Roon. I certainly like it more than Amarra, but it's very expensive. I've got a couple of questions... the alternative for me would be to use iTunes and Tidal. iTunes would be ALAC files converted from FLAC files using Max, the played using the Bitperfect app when I want to play hi-res. In Tidal I would switch it to DAC exclusive mode when I went hi-res. 

There's definitely a convenience hit with this method because it's not simple to release the DAC from Tidal etc. But SQ advantages does Roon give over this approach?


----------



## tme110

You really don't know what you're getting with iTunes and it airplay lets the end point do whatever it needs to do to make the sound work with out sending feedback to iTunes or the player.  The ROON core controls the entire sound path and tells you exactly what's going on with and what it's doing.  It wont connect to a end point unless it knows the end point will play the file correctly.  Plus, iTunes has wasted weeks of my life screwing up my library over and over, and making multiple (sometimes over 8) copies of each song and I just got tired of it.  ROON does not effect or update anything with the original music files and can automatically backup the library file.

But you can also run a house curve or set up a PEQ to adjust the sound any way you want or need to (I use this to try to get rid of the bright harshness of poorly recorded rock/pop music.  It can run convolution files to provide sound correction, adjust for different speaker differences, has multiple filters etc etc.  If you have Audeze headphones, it has built in DSP settings to match each model.  And they are always coming out with more options which you get for free.  And now that the Oppo 20x is ROON ready, I felt like I got a free $200 upgrade.


----------



## tme110

I've made some updates and can now upsample everything in ROON to DSD512 (or 32/764) so I'm testing that out.  I think it's a pretty cool capability to be able to play with.


----------



## alpovs

Anyone remembers if Roon had Black Friday deals on lifetime memberships in the previous years? Any hope for this Black Friday?


----------



## Audio Addict

The 1st year I believe they did but I don't recall any last year.


----------



## jcn3

alpovs said:


> Anyone remembers if Roon had Black Friday deals on lifetime memberships in the previous years? Any hope for this Black Friday?


nope, never any deals.  that would certainly hack off existing subscribers.


----------



## donato

I just installed Roon yesterday.  Saw a 60-day trial somewhere so finally decided to install.  WOW.  This product is fantastic.  The scanning is way better than Audirvana - the metadata is more complete and the scanning is way more reliable than Audirvana ever was for me scanning a share off of my Synology.  The zones took a bit of getting used to.  I have 3 DACs connected to my hackintosh and I was even able to get different playback on each of the simultaneously just for fun.  i set up a raspberry pi 3 as a bridge so I could connect to my McIntosh MX150 for my stereo/HT setup, but was bummed that that the RPI3 only output 48/16 over HDMI, so no better than using airplay to my AppleTV.  I had an old mini PC that I loaded with Ubuntu and was able to get that outputting full res audio.  Nice to see the Audeze presets so I started using my LCD-X again and they've never sounded better.  Been having a lot of tech geek and audio fun this weekend.  I'll definitely be buying a license.


----------



## lcasadonte

Try usb on the RPI3.  I have only used the rpi3's as a bridge with analog out (rca) and it works very well.  There is a version of the bridge (by allo i think) that does coax/digital that would give you better performance.  I love the pi as a bridge.  I am experimenting with a microrendu right now.


----------



## Failed Engineer

1.4 out today.  Lot of improvements, biggest for me is iOS playback!


----------



## Mediahound

Failed Engineer said:


> 1.4 out today.  Lot of improvements, biggest for me is iOS playback!



I've always been able to use the iOS app to control Roon. If you mean the app can now play tracks stored in the iOS device, how do you do that? I checked out the update but am not seeing that.


----------



## Failed Engineer

Not control.  It's an endpoint now, can only be seen on the iOS device.

Select the volume control, then switch zones, and you should see your iOS device.


----------



## Mediahound

Failed Engineer said:


> Not control.  It's an endpoint now, can only be seen on the iOS device.
> 
> Select the volume control, then switch zones, and you should see your iOS device.



I see. Pretty cool I guess if you are around the house and want to go portable or something but in that case I usually just play the tracks stored direct on my iPhone. I only have lossless on it.


----------



## Whazzzup (Dec 18, 2017)

Roon and antipodes audio, heaven


----------



## winders

Mediahound said:


> I see. Pretty cool I guess if you are around the house and want to go portable or something but in that case I usually just play the tracks stored direct on my iPhone. I only have lossless on it.



Yes, it is pretty cool even if you don't think so.....jeez.


----------



## Mediahound

winders said:


> Yes, it is pretty cool even if you don't think so.....jeez.



What's with your snark?


----------



## Failed Engineer

From following the Roon forums, I gathered that the biggest hurdle for iOS remote playback was playback period.  I can't speak for Roon, but I'm assuming that now remote playback can legitimately be put on the roadmap, whether a year from now or 3.


----------



## swspiers

Failed Engineer said:


> 1.4 out today.  Lot of improvements, biggest for me is iOS playback!



No kidding!  For me, this is absolutely huge.  I spend most of my time in my home office and doing school work, so this is just...amazeballs.  There, I wrote it.  Amazeballs!!!!


----------



## Whazzzup

amauzing simply amauzzzzzing


----------



## Mediahound (Dec 18, 2017)

Roon iOS app can play higher res than what Apple even allows themselves (with the right DAC). I'm using my Chord Mojo and playing 24bit 88.2kHz files just fine on the iPhone, streaming from what is essentially my Roon server (a desktop iMac). The only negative to this is the iMac must be left on. 

Apple themselves only allows native play up to 48kHz files. I'm not even sure if Apple will allow you to copy over a higher bitrate file for storage on iOS.


----------



## Whazzzup

we don't speak of iTunes, although thats where i buy my tunes then copy and drop them on my antipode. And no iOS won't play flac, dsd....


----------



## Mediahound

Whazzzup said:


> we don't speak of iTunes, although thats where i buy my tunes then copy and drop them on my antipode. And no iOS won't play flac, dsd....



I don’t recommend that.  it’s not even lossless. Buy the CD instead and rip aiff files. That’s what I do mostly.


----------



## Mediahound

Only other negative to the iOS app is no eq feature as of yet.


----------



## Whazzzup

meh don't notice any differences and at half the price... then i drop it on my antipodes it converts it to flac then roon does its thang, floating point whatevers, spectacular sound. 
Now i have dropped monster flac or dsd files and can't say if its the master or if i can tell difference.
antipodes and roon core bliss..


----------



## Byronb

Bliss is what it is all about. I don't know if I can hear the difference or not, but knowing my music isn't lossless would have we wondering what I was missing.


----------



## donato

Mediahound said:


> Roon iOS app can play higher res than what Apple even allows themselves (with the right DAC). I'm using my Chord Mojo and playing 24bit 88.2kHz files just fine on the iPhone, streaming from what is essentially my Roon server (a desktop iMac). The only negative to this is the iMac must be left on.
> 
> Apple themselves only allows native play up to 48kHz files. I'm not even sure if Apple will allow you to copy over a higher bitrate file for storage on iOS.



You can certainly copy over higher res files to an IOS device, probably just not through itunes music.  I use the Onkyo HF player and use itunes to transfer up to 192/24 flac files.


----------



## winders

Mediahound said:


> Roon iOS app can play higher res than what Apple even allows themselves (with the right DAC). I'm using my Chord Mojo and playing 24bit 88.2kHz files just fine on the iPhone, streaming from what is essentially my Roon server (a desktop iMac). The only negative to this is the iMac must be left on.
> 
> Apple themselves only allows native play up to 48kHz files. I'm not even sure if Apple will allow you to copy over a higher bitrate file for storage on iOS.



See, it's cooler than you initially thought!


----------



## donato

Failed Engineer said:


> 1.4 out today.  Lot of improvements, biggest for me is iOS playback!


I'm a n00b with Roon, but that was the easiest update of just about any software.  Of course, now my IOS devices won't connect to my core now, so I have to figure that out.  I had to specify the IP address manually anyway since my WAPs (eero) is configured in NAT mode and it's not passing on the discovery packets, but even that does seem to be working.


----------



## Mediahound (Dec 18, 2017)

winders said:


> See, it's cooler than you initially thought!


 Not sure where you got the impression that I thought it wasn’t cool. In fact I even stated it was cool...What?


----------



## Mediahound

donato said:


> You can certainly copy over higher res files to an IOS device, probably just not through itunes music.  I use the Onkyo HF player and use itunes to transfer up to 192/24 flac files.



Semi related question- do you use/recommend up-sampling mode in the Onkyo app?


----------



## donato

Mediahound said:


> Semi related question- do you use/recommend up-sampling mode in the Onkyo app?


I don't really have a recommendation.  I am using upsampling if only because it's the default setting.  The only DAC I pair my iphone with is the cipher cable with my isine10 or 20.  Otherwise, I'm normally using the internal apple DAC.  So, it might make a bigger difference with other DACs.


----------



## Ekul61

Does Roon play mqa files from tidal


----------



## Mediahound

Ekul61 said:


> Does Roon play mqa files from tidal



Yep, with the Tidal Hifi subscription.  Speaking of which, Tidal has a free 3 month deal through Groupon right now: https://www.groupon.com/deals/tidal...27_0&sid=f88255c0e4be11e79d4f9edbf881296a0INT


----------



## 486930

So I've been thinking about trying Roon and probably will soon. A couple of questions, and please bear with me: 

Does the new 1.4 where you can use an iphone as an endpoint mean that I can connect my Mojo to a pair of active speakers and connect an oldish iphone to the Mojo and then use my new iphone as a remote and stream wireless Tidal, iphone to iphone? My Roon Core would be an Asus PC. 

And does this make the Poly (for arguments sake let's assume the Poly is everything it promises to be after the coming updates and app release) slightly redundant for streaming Tidal at home to active speakers?

Hope that makes sense...


----------



## fordski

Malmbak said:


> So I've been thinking about trying Roon and probably will soon. A couple of questions, and please bear with me:
> 
> Does the new 1.4 where you can use an iphone as an endpoint mean that I can connect my Mojo to a pair of active speakers and connect an oldish iphone to the Mojo and then use my new iphone as a remote and stream wireless Tidal, iphone to iphone? My Roon Core would be an Asus PC.
> 
> ...



I'm assuming you're running Roon on a PC or server. In the scenario you mentioned Tidal would be streaming directly from your Roon application on your PC to your oldish iPhone then trough mojo to your active speakers. Your new iPhone would only be functioning as a remote control and nothing would be "streaming" thought it. The oldish iPhone must be capable of running Roon and iOS 11 of course as this is the minimum requirement for to run iPhone as a Roon endpoint.


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 22, 2017)

Malmbak said:


> So I've been thinking about trying Roon and probably will soon. A couple of questions, and please bear with me:
> 
> Does the new 1.4 where you can use an iphone as an endpoint mean that I can connect my Mojo to a pair of active speakers and connect an oldish iphone to the Mojo and then use my new iphone as a remote and stream wireless Tidal, iphone to iphone? My Roon Core would be an Asus PC.
> 
> ...



It depends on how old the phone is, you need iOS 11 to use 1.4 roon, from what I understand. But yes it would work as you describe if you phone is new enough.

Edit: LOL got ninjaed again. I need to learn how to type faster on my phone.


----------



## Vicks7

HI all, I am debating switching to Roon from JRiver for my Windows based server, a Baetis Audio. But I have seen some threads say that they are not that impressed with Roon on pure SQ terms. What are people finding and has anyone switched from JRiver to Roon recently? I heard that using the HQ Player with Roon can also help. I would like to make the switch as understand Roon is a much better interface with Tidal which I am finally thinking of subscribing to. You would have also thought for life membership you could download Roon to a few machines. I would also like to use it on Macbook Pro for my office headphone rig but from what I understand the price only includes one machine.
Thanks
James


----------



## Whazzzup

I have set up two cores with roon. My antipodes is the main core but my iMac is back up core, external servers are far better but. Concerning J river who knows but I have roon and am tickled by the prospect of lifetime membership.


----------



## joseph69

I switched from JRiver to Roon + Tidal Hi-Fi about 6 months ago (annual subscription for now) via MacBook Pro and I have no issues with the SQ, nor did I have any issues with the SQ from JRiver. Roon sounds more relaxed/smoother too me, whereas JRiver sounds slightly aggressive, which I'm not saying is a bad thing, depending on which you prefer for certain Genre. I did find that JRiver wasn't too stable, though. As soon as I wanted to search/add more tracks while in the middle of listening, JRiver wasn't very stable and would freeze up and I'd have to re-boot in the middle of listening. I also found JRiver had some serious issues playing DSD, not that I have much DSD files, but still. I basically had to start playing tracks and leave the UI alone. Roons UI is extremely user friendly and consistently reliable, never once did I have to re-boot, and I can use the interface quickly and easily as much as I want without any issues. This being said, I might buy a lifetime subscription, but I'm just hesitant knowing how quickly things change and something different may come along that I might prefer, so I'll wait just a a little while longer.


----------



## bearFNF

I think it may help to look at it this way.

You are buying one Roon Server/Core “license”. The software can be installed on as many machines as you want. However, you can only use one Server/Core at a time. The other machines on the network would then be remotes to control that one server/Core. At least one Server/Core needs to be running on the network to use Roon.

In some people’s cases, they have a server/Core at home and a server/Core at work. They can do this because you can de-authorize the core at home when you are at work and then de-authorize the core at work when you are at home. It is important to remember that in this case there are two database files one for the work server and one for the home server. Also the home server would be unavailable while the work server is being used and vis versa. So if you had family members at home that wanted to use Roon then couldn’t while you were using it at work. There is also no limit to the number of times you can authorize and de-authorize the server/Core.

Hope this did not confuse you more.

I also used JRiver and foobar2000 and did not notice much of a SQ difference. One of the biggest draws for me was the discovery of new music using Roon.


----------



## Vicks7

bearFNF said:


> I think it may help to look at it this way.
> 
> You are buying one Roon Server/Core “license”. The software can be installed on as many machines as you want. However, you can only use one Server/Core at a time. The other machines on the network would then be remotes to control that one server/Core. At least one Server/Core needs to be running on the network to use Roon.
> 
> ...



thanks very much - this is a really helpful explanation.


----------



## canthearyou

Using trial right now. So far so good. I am converting ripped FLAC and PCM from NAS and Tidal to DSD. All works seamlessly and fast. I also use Airplay to Denon receiver and Roon remote. That all works perfectly. I am very pleased with my time so far with Room. Now to decide if it's worth the $$.

Maybe someone can explain how it sees the MQA from tidal and shows it's max bit rate, yet it only outputs 44.1 or 48Khz?


----------



## Chikolad

canthearyou said:


> Maybe someone can explain how it sees the MQA from tidal and shows it's max bit rate, yet it only outputs 44.1 or 48Khz?



What Roon currently outputs is the "unfolded" MQA file. So 44.1 for all max sampling rates that are multiples of 44.1 and the same for 48.
It has already been announced that Roon will be performing the "first unfold", i.e up to 96Khz like the Tidal app, at least. This has been in deliberation between Roon and MQA (the company) for ages, because Roon wanted to provide a more holistic solution (my guess is it has to do with the DSP that Roon provides, which would normally interfere with the subsequent processing by MQA enabled DACs. But not exactly sure about that). 
So this is currently in development.


----------



## canthearyou

Chikolad said:


> What Roon currently outputs is the "unfolded" MQA file. So 44.1 for all max sampling rates that are multiples of 44.1 and the same for 48.
> It has already been announced that Roon will be performing the "first unfold", i.e up to 96Khz like the Tidal app, at least. This has been in deliberation between Roon and MQA (the company) for ages, because Roon wanted to provide a more holistic solution (my guess is it has to do with the DSP that Roon provides, which would normally interfere with the subsequent processing by MQA enabled DACs. But not exactly sure about that).
> So this is currently in development.



Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## Pokersound

Hi friends. Is there an oficial thread for roon?


----------



## Mediahound

Pokersound said:


> Hi friends. Is there an oficial thread for roon?



I think you're in it.


----------



## Chikolad

Pokersound said:


> Hi friends. Is there an oficial thread for roon?


Isn't this the one? 
If you have questions about using Roon the best place would be the community forums in the Roon website. Very very active.


----------



## Pokersound

Hi friends.

Thank you.

I tried to install in my old laptop HP Pavilion dm4 and is not possible because an OpenGL 3.0 problem.

I'm not good with computer. Could you help me? 

I,m plnning to buy a new laptop, Which one do you think have have good characteristics to instal Roon?

Thanks


----------



## Chikolad

Pokersound said:


> Hi friends.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> ...


Maybe the folks at the community forum will be able to solve your OpenGL problem?
For the core machine, it depends on the size of your library. For a couple thousand albums any fairly recent computer would do, but they always recommend a relatively strong one for the best performance. The audio duties themselves hardly require any power. It's managing the databases that's resource consuming. So if you don't mind waiting a few seconds to power up the core you don't need a monster hardware. For the absolute best performance, SSD drive. I don't use one and I'm doing fine with a 1600 album library.
For people who don't like to deal with computers they sell Intel NUC mini computers that already come with a thin OS that's only running Roon. Maybe you should look into that.


----------



## bearFNF

DSP can take up a lot of resources, depending on your settings.


----------



## Chikolad

bearFNF said:


> DSP can take up a lot of resources, depending on your settings.


True


----------



## cj3209 (May 12, 2018)

I have Roon at my home MacBook as my core and I sometimes use my iPad to listen to roon in another room.  I use a Hugo 2, connected to the iPad.  Does anyone know if the SQ from the roon-iPad is the same as roon-core/Macbook?  I notice a slight drop in SQ on the iPad but this may be my brain bias.

BTW, the sound coming from both MacBook and iPad via roon is out of this world using the H2 and i4.

Thanks, in advance.

Joon


----------



## bearFNF

the packets being sent would be the same but the endpoints will affect the outcome, so yeah the SQ will be affected. 
If you hear a difference believe in your ears. I guess it boils down to whether you "like" the sound or not.


----------



## ostewart

Roon is awesome 

http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2018/06/roon-only-media-player-you-will-ever.html


----------



## cj3209

ostewart said:


> Roon is awesome
> 
> http://www.soundperfectionreviews.com/2018/06/roon-only-media-player-you-will-ever.html


I think some people may not understand why Roon is so much better than iTunes or some other music application.  I used it initially to manage my music files which was all over the place and this was something I couldn't do with iTunes or other applications:  they couldn't organize my music from the mess it was.

It's so much fun to use as well and makes listening to music more enjoyable.  The integration with Tidal is also better than using Tidal, by itself.


----------



## cj3209 (Aug 21, 2018)

Wow.  No posts since June?  Is everyone enjoying music via Roon?  Anyone try/demo the new Nucleus/Nucleus+ ?

TIDAL MQA via Roon and iPad/H2 is really really good.


----------



## pedalhead

Using Roon every day, love it. Nucleus is a nice solution for people with the money who don't want the hassle of setting up their own streamer/end point, but there are far better value options out there imho.


----------



## cj3209

My biggest problem with Roon is that I have to connect my external hard drive to my core (MBP) and run Roon.  Then my endpoints can work.  I wish I could just turn on my endpoint (iPad Pro) and starting listening but I have to fire up my MBP first, every time.  That's why I'm looking into the Nucleus to see if it can be an always-on Roon Core.


----------



## bearFNF

cj3209 said:


> My biggest problem with Roon is that I have to connect my external hard drive to my core (MBP) and run Roon.  Then my endpoints can work.  I wish I could just turn on my endpoint (iPad Pro) and starting listening but I have to fire up my MBP first, every time.  That's why I'm looking into the Nucleus to see if it can be an always-on Roon Core.


You could save some $$ and build your own with a NUC...


----------



## pedalhead

Yup, just build a NUC for a fraction of the price of a Nucleus. Mine stays on 24/7 no issues.


----------



## maninthehighcastle

Are there any plans on supporting Qobuz? Rumors are saying that tidal is very much a loss business. Who knows how long they will make. Without Tidal Roon wouldn't make sense to me personally.


----------



## Whazzzup

Antipodes DX roon core, yum.


----------



## pedalhead

maninthehighcastle said:


> Are there any plans on supporting Qobuz? Rumors are saying that tidal is very much a loss business. Who knows how long they will make. Without Tidal Roon wouldn't make sense to me personally.



The Roon guys have recently stated that they're "talking to Qobuz". About time Qobuz came around tbh as they were being pretty stubborn about following their own (inferior) solution. If Qobuz gets properly embedded into Roon personally I'll drop Tidal in a flash.


----------



## Mediahound

pedalhead said:


> The Roon guys have recently stated that they're "talking to Qobuz". About time Qobuz came around tbh as they were being pretty stubborn about following their own (inferior) solution. If Qobuz gets properly embedded into Roon personally I'll drop Tidal in a flash.



Qobuz was not available in the USA until only very recently.


----------



## pedalhead

Yes, I'm aware of that. Nevertheless, Roon have been attempting to court Qobuz for quite some time. A couple of years ago I spoke to a Qobuz rep at a show and apparently the new Qobuz CEO wasn't interested and was pushing for their own solution, despite the consensus within his company being in favour of Roon integration.


----------



## cj3209

That's good news to know that if tidal goes, there may be alternatives.

Although Roon stands on it's own too.


----------



## dbdecoteau

Mediahound said:


> Qobuz was not available in the USA until only very recently.



I downloaded the app but it says I can only play samples because it’s not available in my country?!?


----------



## Mediahound

dbdecoteau said:


> I downloaded the app but it says I can only play samples because it’s not available in my country?!?



Maybe it's not yet available in the USA, just planned.


----------



## Deftone

I've been testing out upsampling in roon to 768khz and found out that i prefer to leave it off and send pure 44.1khz to the ADI2 so that can do its own thing instead. It sounds a bit softer upsampled and i started to turn up the volume more to try to compensate. Softening of the treble and losing a bit of impact was all i noticed. Any one else have a similar experience?


----------



## starence

Version 1.6 is out now, new features include Roon Radio and Qobuz integration!

https://blog.roonlabs.com/roon-1-6/


----------



## Audio Addict

Does anyone know if you can run a Nucleus directly into a DAC not roon ready?   No device drivers are needed?


----------



## koven

Audio Addict said:


> Does anyone know if you can run a Nucleus directly into a DAC not roon ready?   No device drivers are needed?



Yes, via USB directly to DAC works.


----------



## Audio Addict

koven said:


> Yes, via USB directly to DAC works.



Thank you.

Is the plus version worth the $1100 price difference?  All I see different is the upgrade from an i-3 dual core to an i-7 dual core and 4 gigs of RAM.  Seems awfully expensive upgrade.


----------



## koven (Mar 10, 2019)

Audio Addict said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Is the plus version worth the $1100 price difference?  All I see different is the upgrade from an i-3 dual core to an i-7 dual core and 4 gigs of RAM.  Seems awfully expensive upgrade.



Depends if you plan to use DSD upsampling. i3 may be fine up to DSD64 but could struggle beyond that.


----------



## joseph69

Anyone the free Qobuz trial?


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> Anyone the free Qobuz trial?



I am - the integration with Roon works as expected.  Unfortunately, the Qobuz library just doesn't line up well with my preferences, so will be dropping it and sticking with Tidal.


----------



## joseph69

bfreedma said:


> I am - the integration with Roon works as expected.  Unfortunately, the Qobuz library just doesn't line up well with my preferences, so will be dropping it and sticking with Tidal.


Thank you for your input. 
I've been hesitant to try the free Qobuz trial as I don't want to cause any bad reaction to my Roon + Tidal library. 
I'm very happy with both right now, so I think I'll stay right where I am.


----------



## bfreedma

joseph69 said:


> Thank you for your input.
> I've been hesitant to try the free Qobuz trial as I don't want to cause any bad reaction to my Roon + Tidal library.
> I'm very happy with both right now, so I think I'll stay right where I am.




Glad to help.

I don’t think there is much/any chance that the Qobuz trial would impact your existing library, so if you’re curious, give it a go.  The setup is the same as Tidal - just enter your account and password.    As long as you don’t mark anything from Qobuz as the preferred version of content, it should leave no footprint.


----------



## joseph69

Maybe I'll give it a try...maybe.


----------



## AndrewH13

bfreedma said:


> I am - the integration with Roon works as expected.  Unfortunately, the Qobuz library just doesn't line up well with my preferences, so will be dropping it and sticking with Tidal.



Which music did you find missing in Qobuz?


----------



## bfreedma

AndrewH13 said:


> Which music did you find missing in Qobuz?



Prog rock and prog metal are pretty light.  Bands like The Aristocrats and Scale the Summit aren’t in their catalog.  When I have a few minutes, I’ll relook at my local catalog and list more bands.


----------



## AndrewH13

bfreedma said:


> Prog rock and prog metal are pretty light.  Bands like The Aristocrats and Scale the Summit aren’t in their catalog.  When I have a few minutes, I’ll relook at my local catalog and list more bands.



Like a bit of Prog myself, Spocks Beard, Dream Theatre, Yes, Karmakanic, Transatlantic etc. Shame if this genre lacking.


----------



## Audio Addict

Has anyone tried one of these fanless Nucs?

https://simplynuc.com/7i7dnfe-full/


----------



## Progisus

AndrewH13 said:


> Like a bit of Prog myself, Spocks Beard, Dream Theatre, Yes, Karmakanic, Transatlantic etc. Shame if this genre lacking.


Tidal is great for Prog. One of my favorite times is sitting in Starbucks with my Mojo,Poly and Prog magazine checking out the new albums. So many new great groups. Please Yes.. one more album.


----------



## Kons (Mar 19, 2019)

Roon + Tidal is my daily at the moment.  Qobuz is not available where I'm at and I doubt they'll have some of my more obscure music anyway.

Now the question is if it's even worth getting a dac with MQA decoding.  Anyone? (I understand the MQA controversy, but asking considering I'm already using tidal)


----------



## ZMG885

Audio Addict said:


> Has anyone tried one of these fanless Nucs?
> 
> https://simplynuc.com/7i7dnfe-full/



I've decent reviews over at anandtech...yet, configurations seem pricey for what you get.  I'd also consider an HP Z2 G4 mini or Lenovo P330 tiny.  These are workstations, but very small form factors.  I use an older HP small form factor workstation for development and it's quieter than my mac mini.


----------



## Audio Addict

ZMG885 said:


> I've decent reviews over at anandtech...yet, configurations seem pricey for what you get.  I'd also consider an HP Z2 G4 mini or Lenovo P330 tiny.  These are workstations, but very small form factors.  I use an older HP small form factor workstation for development and it's quieter than my mac mini.



I went ahead with the NUC.  We will see how it does.  I am going to run Win 10 for now and get a M.2 drive to load Rock on and the consider migration to Rock.  It will only run Roon.


----------



## lcasadonte

I'm re-purposing an old Zotac AD10 as we speak right now to see if I can create a mobile roon server solution for myself.  @Audio Addict  looks like you have a mobile implementation?  The zotac uses an AMD Dual-Core Processor E-350 1.6ghz processor with 8g of ram so its a little weak.  I'm not really looking for the server to do too much work so hopefully this will work.  I have a 4tb WD passport pro to go with it for storage.  Since I have an msdn license I started with windows 10 for the operating system for now.  I just loaded up the library which just crossed 100k tracks and so far it has loaded up.  Have to decide on a roon client to bring with me.  My traditional mobile setup has been my DAP running into a moon neo 230had.  No roon support.  I've since added a chord h2 and a microrendu.  I think i might leave the new230had and microrendu at work and use the h2 in the hotel.  I'd have to decide on what to use as the roon client in the hotel still (or just bring the microrendu back to the hotel and use it).  I've been trying to eliminate the use of my computer in the chain at every location as I'm working, getting emails and don't want the audible distractions and hiccups i get with using my pc.  I'd like to know what you decide os wise.  Good luck.


----------



## Ultrainferno

For giveaway 48 we have for you a full subscription to Roon for a year. Sign up now!

https://www.headfonia.com/giveaway-48-roon/


----------



## Steve Wilcox

My Christmas present to myself was an Innuos Zen Mini Mk III with external linear power supply. This operates as a Roon core and server and also rips CDs to its internal memory.  

I'm completely new to Roon and enjoying it greatly.  The Qobuz integration works very well and I've ripped some CDs to fill in a few gaps in the catalogue. 

This has freed up my Bluesound Node 2 to use in another room, via Roon. 

The sound quality of the Innuos unit, into a Chord Qutest, is a small step up from the Node 2 but we're very much into the law of diminishing returns here.  The Innuos has an internal DAC that I've not tried yet. 

Tidal are currently offering a 5 months for 5 pounds deal in the UK, compared to 25 pounds a month for Qobuz so a switch beckons!


----------



## Scrum92

Does anybody know of any ongoing Roon promotions?


----------



## bearFNF (Jan 27, 2020)

Scrum92 said:


> Does anybody know of any ongoing Roon promotions?


Have not seen anything new, Just the same 14 day trial and the annulal or lifetime options.
There were some "included" subscriptions with certain hardware, but most of those that I know of are gone.
There were also some discount codes offered by some sites/mags/streaming services but hey just extended the trial to 30 days, but they are also gone as far as I see.

Google search "roon subscription offers codes" will bring them up if you want to see them.


----------



## joseph69

bearFNF said:


> Have not seen anything new, Just the same 14 day trial *and the month* or lifetime options.


I'm a lifetime member, but I didn't know they had a monthly plan, only the annual.


----------



## Chikolad

joseph69 said:


> I'm a lifetime member, but I didn't know they had a monthly plan, only the annual.


They don't


----------



## bearFNF (Jan 27, 2020)

Oops, Yep, meant annual not monthly. I am also a lifetime .


----------



## Audio Addict

With the latest upgrade to 1.7, they increased the lifetime license to$699 but did not change the annual license of $119.


----------



## Scrum92

Are there any offers or discounts that apply to gifting the subscription? I saw that (in the past) there were.


----------



## Mediahound

Scrum92 said:


> Are there any offers or discounts that apply to gifting the subscription? I saw that (in the past) there were.



Yes, this is what they currently offer for buying someone a gift membership;


----------



## MacedonianHero

Audio Addict said:


> With the latest upgrade to 1.7, they increased the lifetime license to$699 but did not change the annual license of $119.



I'm glad I bought the lifetime license a while back then at $499. Best player I've ever used!


----------



## Scrum92

Thoroughly impressed by Roon one week into my trial. Definitely will be buying an annual subscription. I'm coming from Audirvana and just use it as a player.

The Roon Radio feature plus the ability to control from my mobile and the fact my entire local and streaming library is seamlessly integrated just makes it much better, in my opinion.

Audirvana on Windows also feels a bit "clunky" in comparison.


----------



## chrisdrop

I am trying to work out a reasonable value (and of course infinitely good quality - LOL!) Roon endpoint to feed my DAC. I have been playing with Ropieee and an RPI4, USB output to a reclocker. The user experience is good but, I am not convinced by the sound this solution. Tidal -> Mac -> USB -> Reclocker sounded better overall. 

I am assuming it will be a computer-based solution (like an rpi, or a mac-mini, etc) but I am open to whatever else seems good. 

I'd like to move away from my laptop being the source direct to my DAC (or reclocker). This implies some sort of Roon endpoint. I also want to use a stand-alone DAC, not one with an inbuilt streaming function. 

SPDIF or USB (implies something that outputs quality of either!)
RasbperryPi or another solution? I think people have preferred Rpi < 3b - even though RPI4 solves the dual ethernet/ USB conflict.
Power supplies - what is a good linear power supply (or at least low noise like from iFi) for any of these devices? 
NUC needed for primarily Tidal streaming? 
I don't really have a budget in mind because I am feeling out the space.

ANY thoughts would be welcome.


----------



## jcn3

chrisdrop said:


> I am trying to work out a reasonable value (and of course infinitely good quality - LOL!) Roon endpoint to feed my DAC. I have been playing with Ropieee and an RPI4, USB output to a reclocker. The user experience is good but, I am not convinced by the sound this solution. Tidal -> Mac -> USB -> Reclocker sounded better overall.
> 
> I am assuming it will be a computer-based solution (like an rpi, or a mac-mini, etc) but I am open to whatever else seems good.
> 
> ...



the usb out from an rpi has never been that great.  if your dac has an aes digital input, this hat is supposed to be awesome:  http://www.pi2design.com/pi2aes.html.  you would also need a single 24v power supply (powers the hat and the rpi4) -- apparently the one they sell is pretty good.


----------



## jimmychan

I am using a DDC between the Ropieee and my DAC, it will never be so good. It is better than the output of a dCS Network Bridge And Aurender N10.

Please see the friends that comment the Audio-gd DI-20HE.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-di-20.918123/


----------



## AladdinSane

Can Roon output higher than CD quality when streaming Tidal or Qobuz through the app? Just started using it with those two subscriptions and can't seem to get it to output higher resolution. If I play from either of the native Tidal or Qobuz desktop apps my DAC will display the higher resolution. If I stream through Roon only CD quality comes through. Probably related is I don't see a way to tell Roon find the high res tracks vs "regular" tracks. Tips?


----------



## Scrum92

AladdinSane said:


> Can Roon output higher than CD quality when streaming Tidal or Qobuz through the app? Just started using it with those two subscriptions and can't seem to get it to output higher resolution. If I play from either of the native Tidal or Qobuz desktop apps my DAC will display the higher resolution. If I stream through Roon only CD quality comes through. Probably related is I don't see a way to tell Roon find the high res tracks vs "regular" tracks. Tips?



I use Qobuz and have no issues playing 24/96 and 24/192 content. Norah Jones has an album in 24/192, forgive me I've forgotten its name, does that only play in 16/44.1? 

There is an option to view all versions available, but in my experience it mostly defaults to the highest resolution available. Not certain that is actually the behaviour, could very well just be my experience based on the music I listen to.

Double check your device setup. It might be that it has incorrectly maxed out at 16/44.1. Mine is (rightly) limited to 24/192 since I use an optical connection to my Hugo 2.


----------



## AladdinSane

Scrum92 said:


> I use Qobuz and have no issues playing 24/96 and 24/192 content. Norah Jones has an album in 24/192, forgive me I've forgotten its name, does that only play in 16/44.1?
> 
> There is an option to view all versions available, but in my experience it mostly defaults to the highest resolution available. Not certain that is actually the behaviour, could very well just be my experience based on the music I listen to.
> 
> Double check your device setup. It might be that it has incorrectly maxed out at 16/44.1. Mine is (rightly) limited to 24/192 since I use an optical connection to my Hugo 2.


----------



## AladdinSane

Thank you.Some progress. After actually signing into Qobuz (ooops) I see the higher res music coming through on some tracks.  Been setting up too many PCs lately. However it seems default isn't always highest res so far. Example: I have Led Zeppelin II in my physical library (CD quality) but it is avail in high-res on both Tidal and Qobuz. Roon plays the Library version. Same setup with Talking Heads, Speaking in Tongues but in this case Roon plays the Qobuz high-res version. I'll keep playing around and check settings. Thank you again.


----------



## joseph69

AladdinSane said:


> Example: I have Led Zeppelin II in my physical library (CD quality) but it is avail in high-res on both Tidal and Qobuz. Roon plays the Library version.


You can choose to hide your Cd version and keep Roon's hi-res version.
Or if you don't want to hide your Cd version, when you choose "versions" and add the hi-res to your library it will ask if you want to make this the primary version.


----------



## masterpfa

bearFNF said:


> Oops, Yep, meant annual not monthly. I am also a lifetime .



What no chance of parole?


----------



## AladdinSane

joseph69 said:


> You can choose to hide your Cd version and keep Roon's hi-res version.
> Or if you don't want to hide your Cd version, when you choose "versions" and add the hi-res to your library it will ask if you want to make this the primary version.


thank you.  dialed in!


----------



## F208Frank

Question for Roon users, for the Lumin Streamer, Lumin Staff as well as Lumin users report the Lumin App sounding better than Roon, though I like and use Roon myself, can someone explain why a native app would sound better than Roon?


----------



## leftside

F208Frank said:


> Question for Roon users, for the Lumin Streamer, Lumin Staff as well as Lumin users report the Lumin App sounding better than Roon, though I like and use Roon myself, can someone explain why a native app would sound better than Roon?


Lumin Staff report Lumin sounds better than Roon? I'm shocked.


----------



## F208Frank (Mar 13, 2020)

Yes, 100 percent, also dealers who sell Lumin streamers say the same thing, so I double checked with Lumin themselves.

I just want to understand why an app would change the quality of sound as I assumed the app differences are only the interface. Maybe because Lumin app is native to Lumin? People also report Naim app to sound better than Lumin, when using Naim streamers, though the staff at Naim did not confirm that nor did I ask.


----------



## xcom

For those looking to chat and or get help regarding Roon, there is a discord channel: https://discord.gg/jCA6e2


----------



## bfreedma

F208Frank said:


> Yes, 100 percent, also dealers who sell Lumin streamers say the same thing, so I double checked with Lumin themselves.
> 
> I just want to understand why an app would change the quality of sound as I assumed the app differences are only the interface. Maybe because Lumin app is native to Lumin? People also report Naim app to sound better than Lumin, when using Naim streamers, though the staff at Naim did not confirm that nor did I ask.




For some reason, I don't find a vendor with a profit motive to be a compelling source of accurate information.


----------



## F208Frank

bfreedma said:


> For some reason, I don't find a vendor with a profit motive to be a compelling source of accurate information.


Yes but the dealer has no motive for stating that the native app sounds better, it is not like they get an extra sale by saying that. Also I already own the Lumin streamer when asking Lumin support and they knew that.


----------



## bfreedma

F208Frank said:


> Yes but the dealer has no motive for stating that the native app sounds better, it is not like they get an extra sale by saying that. Also I already own the Lumin streamer when asking Lumin support and they knew that.




Of course the dealer and vendor has a profit motive.  They want you to be happy with your purchase so that you will spend more in the future.  If they aren't "special", then you could always replace them with another product that claims to be "special".  At the rate many in this hobby churn through gear seeking "better", customer and brand retention are critical.

The significant questions to ask are "Why does it sound better" and "How can you validate that".


----------



## F208Frank

Fair, I did ask the why questions and am hoping to get answers. I did ask multiple users who owned the Lumin streamer to say the same thing, so I was a bit baffled how software (music player) can sound different. This is a completely new concept to me.


----------



## xcom

F208Frank said:


> Fair, I did ask the why questions and am hoping to get answers. I did ask multiple users who owned the Lumin streamer to say the same thing, so I was a bit baffled how software (music player) can sound different. This is a completely new concept to me.



This could be possible by using proprietary filters/plugins/hardware that can only be unlocked by the proprietary software, etc... 
So maybe Lumi is  doing something like that.


----------



## F208Frank (Apr 4, 2020)

I had been running the roon server core on my PC, it was a desktop that had nearly TOTL specs across the board as it was built for current generation VR headset.

To my surprise running roon core on a server made the browsing interface so much faster and snappy and my server has worse specs than the PC processing wise. How is this possible?

I do not understand how the Core can be so choppy on even such a well specced computer, how do most people deal with roon browsing when it is always semi choppy/laggy when using a PC?

What are your experiences with running roon core off your computer?

Update: I am an idiot, reason was because my PC was wireless and now my server is wired. I suspect the differences not to be much if my PC was also wired.


----------



## xcom

I dont. I use Roon Core on my Linux Server and use the WebUI or use my Tablets/Phones/Laptops to manage it.


----------



## joseph69

I run Roon via ultraRendue>MacBook Pro without any issues.
Even when I'm using my desktop running Roon Core via Schitt Magni/Modi I have no issues.


----------



## xdbvdbx

xcom said:


> For those looking to chat and or get help regarding Roon, there is a discord channel: https://discord.gg/jCA6e2



Hit me up with an updated invite!


----------



## Hillskill

So thought I’d share this. Here in the UK we are in lockdown due to the Pandemic like most nations. I’ve found myself rediscovering PC Gaming in the evenings. I run Roon Core on my unraid server and then have various clients around my home. I had a Matrix Audio Element M delivered for desktop headphone amp streaming duties...we technically it’s on a coffee table in a cosy corner right by the game PC.

So I’ve been playing late in the evening and I figured I’d use the element to give me better in game audio. I connected to the gaming pc via USB. All worked great. I then realised I could install the Roon client software on said PC. I can fire up The Witcher 3, lower in game music in the settings, fire up Roon on my phone and select my own music. I’m now playing till late listening to my own music collection flawlessly. Using the volume slider in Roon you can essentially set a “mix”.


----------



## xcom

xdbvdbx said:


> Hit me up with an updated invite!


Got you! 
This is is set to never expired. 

https://discord.gg/3JnUnf5


----------



## drjjpdc

I have a Roon and Fiio question. I have a Fiio X3 2nd gen and was given an extended loan of a Roon Nucleus. Is there any way to connect my player to the Roon USB on the rear?


----------



## Kelee123

New Head-fier here with a Roon nucleus question...I recently bought a Roon Nucleus and added a 1TB SSD.  I have about 200 albums stored on an external hard drive that I want to upload to my nucleus SSD. I went to the storage tab under Roon settings and "transferred" the albums to the SSD. Roon seems to list and play all of the albums that I transferred but the entire list is not available after I disconnect the external hard drive. I thought that I had transferred all those files to the SSD when I did the "transfer" but why did all those files disappear when the external hard drive is removed?  Can anyone help? Thanks!


----------



## drjjpdc

First the 1 TB SSD, did you open up the Nucleus and install it there? Roon does not have any memory except for it's own OS. You need some kind of a computer to link via Wi-Fi or wire. You can't see anything on Roon unless it's connected to your network.


----------



## donato

Kelee123 said:


> New Head-fier here with a Roon nucleus question...I recently bought a Roon Nucleus and added a 1TB SSD.  I have about 200 albums stored on an external hard drive that I want to upload to my nucleus SSD. I went to the storage tab under Roon settings and "transferred" the albums to the SSD. Roon seems to list and play all of the albums that I transferred but the entire list is not available after I disconnect the external hard drive. I thought that I had transferred all those files to the SSD when I did the "transfer" but why did all those files disappear when the external hard drive is removed?  Can anyone help? Thanks!



Did you "transfer' the albums or just add the folder on the external drive to the list of storage locations? Because if you did that, then it would make sense that those are not accessible when you remove the external drive.  Maybe post a screen shot of your Storage list in Roon so we can see what you have set up.


----------



## joseph69

Anyone get an update alert to install v1.8 yet?


----------



## koven

1.8 is downloading but slowly, probably overloaded servers with the launch.


----------



## donato

I'm all upgraded!  I just checked in settings and clicked to update all.


----------



## Forsaked

Yeah, 1.8 is here but the Play-Store has no update so far.


----------



## donato

Forsaked said:


> Yeah, 1.8 is here but the Play-Store has no update so far.



It's in the Apple App Store already.  Surprised it's not in the Play store yet.


----------



## joseph69

Thanks for the replies.
I've yet to receive an update notice so I'm going to try going to check in setting and update all as mentioned and see what happens.


----------



## wood1030

I received the update notification but 3x's so far it's failed to install. I think their update servers are getting slammed atm. I'll try again later.


----------



## Nostoi

1.8 active and working in Vienna. Very nice refresh.


----------



## joseph69

As soon as I launched Roon the update notification displayed.
1.8 installed and seems fine so far. Will check out the new UI later tonight.


----------



## BadgerRivFan

My Nucleus is stuck in the middle of updating.  It's very slow.  I'm sure their servers are overloaded or maybe even down.  I was watching the Roon community forum most of the morning and now that site is crashed.  They probably shouldn't have hyped the update by sending out daily emails over the past 5 business days.


----------



## leftside

It's great


----------



## Forsaked

I hate the new UI, also the settings menu shows only the general tab, all other are not visible.
But you can still make setting changes via the App.


----------



## W1ll1eTheP1mp

Hey! Im interested in Roon, but i cant quite understand how it works/what i need of equipment even when reading on their website.

I want to use Roon with my Tidal subscription. 99% of my music is from streaming services. I have a laptop, tablet and LG V40 Quad dac phone with MQA. I have not yet bought any desktop dacs/amps since i use my V40. I also have sold off most of my headphones anf moved into high end IEMs since it suits me better per now.


I simply just want to use Roon with Tidal instead of f.ex using My V40 with UAPP.  UAPPs way of recommending similiar artists/album is sadly horrible and clunky.Roon seems to he excellent to suggests and find similiar artists/ albums to what you listen to and like. And that is something i preciate highly cause of my wierd musictaste. Also the bio about musicians etc is very neat.

What equipment do i need? Can i simply use my laptop as a Rooncore and use my LG40 as controller? Will V40 decode MQA with Roon?

Whats the most affordable solution for me?

Thanks


----------



## jimmychan

Album icon too big if you display on desktop pc, v1.7 has customisation of the icon size


----------



## S Crowther

Any change in SQ IN 8.1?


----------



## Spadge

W1ll1eTheP1mp said:


> Hey! Im interested in Roon, but i cant quite understand how it works/what i need of equipment even when reading on their website.
> 
> I want to use Roon with my Tidal subscription. 99% of my music is from streaming services. I have a laptop, tablet and LG V40 Quad dac phone with MQA. I have not yet bought any desktop dacs/amps since i use my V40. I also have sold off most of my headphones anf moved into high end IEMs since it suits me better per now.
> 
> ...



You probably won’t want to use Roon on an Android mobile device. The Roon app on Android forces everything to 16/44.1k. I was hoping the latest update would fix it, but alas...

Also, Roon only works while connected to the local LAN, there is no ‘offline’ listening. This feature has been long asked for by Roon but as yet not delivered.

Having said that - yes, you would set up the Roon Core on your laptop and use your mobile and/or tablet as endpoints and/or remotes.


----------



## llamaluv (Feb 14, 2021)

Anyone else as irked as I am about what they've done to tags with v1.8?

Tags are no longer displayed under each track in the album view. And when you add a track to a tag, the "Add to tag" dialog no longer shows checkboxes telling you what tags have already been selected and gives you no way un de-selecting tags through this dialog (And as an aside what's up with that formulation, "Add to tag"? Very counter-intuitive way out putting it, since you'd naturally think of the operation as one where you're adding tags to a track, not the other way around, but anyway).

I'm sure I'm not the only person who's spent way too much time tagging tracks in their library, only to find them rendered useless (or at best, just much, much less useful) with this new version 1.8.

There's some ire being expressed in the Roon forum but no useful responses from the management as of yet. Though one admin did chime in to claim that it's not possible to revert back to v1.7 (great!). Looks like I'll have to start following that forum to see if anything may be done about this issue, since to me this is very, very close to a dealbreaker. I couldn't give a care about the big UI "reskin" when at the same time, they've taken away essential functionality.

Alright, rant over for now, I guess.

UPDATE ~2/14: CTO dude says fixing this gross misjudgment is now a top priority. See here.


----------



## Forsaked

They have updated the installer, it's the same build number but fixed. 
Just install it over the current installation and the settings and some other things should work again.


----------



## OceanRanger

Initially I wasn't super thrilled with the new UI, but with more use it is growing on me. v1.8 (build 756)


----------



## Mediahound

S Crowther said:


> Any change in SQ IN 8.1?


Supposedly, yes:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-is-live/140805



> Audio stack improvements​The audio pipeline in the Roon Core has been optimized to reduce memory traffic and CPU usage. We have also improved the efficiency and mathematical accuracy of the dithering algorithm used for DSP.


----------



## bfreedma

Mediahound said:


> Supposedly, yes:
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-is-live/140805



Unless you’re using native Roon DSP, I don’t see any claims of improved SQ in the section you quoted.  Improved cpu and memory efficiency won’t alter sound quality.


----------



## Mediahound

bfreedma said:


> Unless you’re using native Roon DSP, I don’t see any claims of improved SQ in the section you quoted.  Improved cpu and memory efficiency won’t alter sound quality.



Less CPU overhead definitely can translate to better SQ. This is the whole reason people often  run Roon on dedicated slim servers, etc.


----------



## bfreedma

Mediahound said:


> Less CPU overhead definitely can translate to better SQ. This is the whole reason people often  run Roon on dedicated slim servers, etc.


Unless, you’re CPU constrained, which won’t happen on any reasonably configured PC, you are wrong.  Though I anticipate you’ll have a reason straight out of someone’s marketing literature.  People do all kind of misguided things like running server OS, audio OS “tuning” software, etc. - just because “people do things” doesn’t validate those things.

There’s a reason Roon used the word “efficiency” and not “improvement”.  If the vendor isn’t claiming SQ improvements...


----------



## Mediahound

bfreedma said:


> Unless, you’re CPU constrained, which won’t happen on any reasonably configured PC, you are wrong.  Though I anticipate you’ll have a reason straight out of someone’s marketing literature.  People do all kind of misguided things like running server OS, audio OS “tuning” software, etc. - just because “people do things” doesn’t validate those things.
> 
> There’s a reason Roon used the word “efficiency” and not “improvement”.  If the vendor isn’t claiming SQ improvements...



Not sure what else to tell you other than, you're wrong. 

Roon themselves even publish a help page on the topic in which one of their recommendations is to monitor CPU usage: 

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/sound-quality-in-one-computer


----------



## bfreedma

Mediahound said:


> Not sure what else to tell you other than, you're wrong.
> 
> Roon themselves even publish a help page on the topic in which one of their recommendations is to monitor CPU usage:
> 
> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/sound-quality-in-one-computer



As I stated and as the link in the article you posted confirms, unless you’re CPU is constrained, there is no issue.  if you know of a specific technical reason that Roon’s improved efficiency would improve SQ on a non constrained CPU would, I’d very much like to discuss it. 

Roon isn’t claiming improvement in SQ, so...


----------



## Mediahound

bfreedma said:


> Roon isn’t claiming improvement in SQ, so...



They can't, even if there is. Because that would imply there was some SQ deficiency with prior versions. It's all about PR. Reading between the lines of the wording on the new release notes it's pretty clear they think SQ improved.


----------



## bfreedma

Mediahound said:


> They can't, even if there is. Because that would imply there was some SQ deficiency with prior versions. It's all about PR. Reading between the lines of the wording on the new release notes it's pretty clear they think SQ improved.



LOL - seriously?


----------



## Mediahound

bfreedma said:


> LOL - seriously?



See this thread: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-sound-quality-change/141309/1

Tons of first-hand reports of improved SQ with the new update there.


----------



## bfreedma

Mediahound said:


> See this thread: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-sound-quality-change/141309/1
> 
> Tons of first-hand reports of improved SQ with the new update there.



So we‘re back to proof = some people said stuff on the internet.

I’m out.


----------



## Mediahound

bfreedma said:


> So we‘re back to proof = some people said stuff on the internet.
> 
> I’m out.



Your entire logic is that Roon didn't come right out and say there was SQ improvement, so it must not be possible...


----------



## Signal2Noise

I trialed Roon two years ago but couldn’t bring myself to pay for the yearly or lifetime fee. Then the lifetime cost increased by $200(!!) around the time my 3 month trial ended. However, last November Roon added a new monthly plan as well as having a 30% discounted yearly plan (which still exists) so I caved in and went with that.

I’ve been running Roon Server on a Synology DS1019+ NAS which has an Intel Celeron CPU and I bumped it 16GB ram. The NAS works flawlessly feeding audio and video files to various endpoints in the household including Plex, Sonos, Bluesound, AppleTV, Mojo/Poly etc. But when ROON comes into play it can get a tad spotty. 75% of the “zones” are ethernet and remaining are wireless via ASUS AI mesh.

So now I decided since I can’t find anything ‘equal and/or better and/or cheaper‘ than ROON at the moment (I’ve tried JRiver, Audirvana, and Amarra so far) that meets all my audio stream/hardware requirements I’ll invest a bit into the software. So I just purchased/ordered an Intel NUC 10 and will get ROON ROCK set up on that. I figure the benefits of a “beefier” and dedicated Core i7 with its own 16GB DDR4 ram for ROON might make a difference to overall performance and the NAS can stay strictly as a media storage/library feeder.


----------



## OceanRanger

An hour or two ago I upgraded from build 756 to build 763. I am now getting brief dropouts in streaming playback from Quobuz. I have a wired internet connection and haven't made any other changes. I'm trying to root cause the issue, but wanted to check to see if anyone else is having similar issues?


----------



## BadgerRivFan

OceanRanger said:


> An hour or two ago I upgraded from build 756 to build 763. I am now getting brief dropouts in streaming playback from Quobuz. I have a wired internet connection and haven't made any other changes. I'm trying to root cause the issue, but wanted to check to see if anyone else is having similar issues?


I updated to build 763 about 45 minutes ago.  Streaming Qobuz from my Nucleus to Poly/Mojo (via WiFi obviously) with no issues.

Hope you are able to get it sorted.


----------



## OceanRanger

OceanRanger said:


> An hour or two ago I upgraded from build 756 to build 763. I am now getting brief dropouts in streaming playback from Quobuz. I have a wired internet connection and haven't made any other changes. I'm trying to root cause the issue, but wanted to check to see if anyone else is having similar issues?


I am also getting these dropouts with playback of local FLAC files. Headed to Roon Labs Community.


BadgerRivFan said:


> I updated to build 763 about 45 minutes ago.  Streaming Qobuz from my Nucleus to Poly/Mojo (via WiFi obviously) with no issues.
> 
> Hope you are able to get it sorted.


Thanks for the info!!


----------



## jimmychan

The update downloading is very very slow now.


----------



## joseph69

Updated over 2hrs ago and no issues with Roon.


----------



## OceanRanger

OceanRanger said:


> I am also getting these dropouts with playback of local FLAC files. Headed to Roon Labs Community.
> 
> Thanks for the info!!


Several reboots later, issue still not resolved I turned all my gear off and went to bed at midnight yesterday. This AM I turned everything back on and the issue has resolved itself. I'm going to chalk it up to gremlins and be happy that the dropouts are no longer happening.


----------



## bfreedma

OceanRanger said:


> Several reboots later, issue still not resolved I turned all my gear off and went to bed at midnight yesterday. This AM I turned everything back on and the issue has resolved itself. I'm going to chalk it up to gremlins and be happy that the dropouts are no longer happening.



Just a guess, but if you have a large library, some background indexing and metadata gathering may have been going on in the background post install.  I noticed some higher than normal CPU utilization on my NUC based server and network traffic to my media storage device for a while after my upgrade.

Whatever it was, glad it's resolved!


----------



## DaYooper

Seems the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 may just fill the bill for a Roon ready desktop DAC to complete my Roon setup in my home. And it didn't require me to sell any body parts to pay for it, bonus!


----------



## OceanRanger

I'm currently using a Macbook as a core and am contemplating a dedicated streaming device. I listen in two different locations so using the Macbook is quite convenient to transport between these locations. Adding a dedicated streaming device to one means that I'll have the Macbook and the dedicated device, both acting as cores, via the same subscription. This will work fine as I only use one core at a time. I'm just not sure how easy it is to manage my library across two different devices. Is anyone else running two cores on the same subscription? Any thoughts or comments on this experience? What works well and/or what you find frustrating?


----------



## fordski

OceanRanger said:


> I'm currently using a Macbook as a core and am contemplating a dedicated streaming device. I listen in two different locations so using the Macbook is quite convenient to transport between these locations. Adding a dedicated streaming device to one means that I'll have the Macbook and the dedicated device, both acting as cores, via the same subscription. This will work fine as I only use one core at a time. I'm just not sure how easy it is to manage my library across two different devices. Is anyone else running two cores on the same subscription? Any thoughts or comments on this experience? What works well and/or what you find frustrating?


When you say dedicated streaming device if you mean a dedicated Roon core I believe you can only have one core active with a Roon subscription. You only need one core and everything else acts as a remote controller. You can have your core machine off in a closet somewhere and your Mac would act as a controller connected to your core via your home network. Essentially your Mac becomes a control point for your core, along with any phones to tablets you're running. You'll be able to play to anything connected to your Mac just as before. This is the exact setup I have. My core is installed in a NUC out in my hallway and my Mac mini, iPad and iPhone service as remote controllers and endpoints. It all works flawlessly.


----------



## OceanRanger

My job is about 350 miles away from my house so I have an apartment and a house, a two channel system in one location and a headphone system in another location. I'm thinking about adding an Innuos Zenith mk3 to one location and will continue to use my Macbook in the other. In the location with the Innuos server/streamer, that device would be the core and I'd be using the Macbook as the controller, in the other location the Macbook would be the core. The Roon license is tied to an account, so they do support a user having two different cores, it is just that you can only sign in and use one core at a time. The trickier part is managing the database across both pieces of hardware.


----------



## BadgerRivFan

fordski said:


> When you say dedicated streaming device if you mean a dedicated Roon core I believe you can only have one core active with a Roon subscription. You only need one core and everything else acts as a remote controller. You can have your core machine off in a closet somewhere and your Mac would act as a controller connected to your core via your home network. Essentially your Mac becomes a control point for your core, along with any phones to tablets you're running. You'll be able to play to anything connected to your Mac just as before. This is the exact setup I have. My core is installed in a NUC out in my hallway and my Mac mini, iPad and iPhone service as remote controllers and endpoints. It all works flawlessly.


Actually I think OceanRanger has it right... in other words what he wants is to use Roon at two different properties (i.e. home and vacation home for example).  As long as you are only logged in to one core at a time it is my understanding that you can do this with just one subscription. 

Not that what you are saying is incorrect, it just seems as though you may have misunderstood what OceanRanger was describing...


----------



## BadgerRivFan

Looks like OceanRanger beat me to it... lol.  I will butt out now.


----------



## fordski

OceanRanger said:


> My job is about 350 miles away from my house so I have an apartment and a house, a two channel system in one location and a headphone system in another location. I'm thinking about adding an Innuos Zenith mk3 to one location and will continue to use my Macbook in the other. In the location with the Innuos server/streamer, that device would be the core and I'd be using the Macbook as the controller, in the other location the Macbook would be the core. The Roon license is tied to an account, so they do support a user having two different cores, it is just that you can only sign in and use one core at a time. The trickier part is managing the database across both pieces of hardware.


Got it. Sorry I misread your post.


----------



## OceanRanger

BadgerRivFan said:


> Looks like OceanRanger beat me to it... lol.  I will butt out now.


Thanks @fordski and @BadgerRivFan . I should have been more clear in my original post. I am trying to decide if improvements in sound quality at one spot will be worth the cost to buy and effort to sync two cores.


----------



## joseph69

Anyone having an issue launching Roon?
When I launch the app (multiple times) I only get the speaker icon and it will not proceed to my player. 
Cleared my privacy & history shut down, started up and did a P-RAM reset to no avail.
Using MacBook Pro 10.15.7 ( latest update for my mid-2013). I'm also using an ultraRendu via Ethernet connection which shown I'm using Roon IP address. Any advice would be appreciated. Figured I'd ask here first, but in the meantime I'll head over to Roon Labs site and read if there are any issues.
Thanks


----------



## bearFNF

No issues here. I know they have been releasing updates recently. Latest is 1.8 build 764.


----------



## joseph69

I'm running the latest version 1.8 build 764 which I should've mentioned.
Thanks for your reply.


----------



## OceanRanger

I too am on 1.8 build 764 and am not having issues. That said, I'm running Big Sur 11.2.2 on my MacBook.


----------



## joseph69

Thank you for your reply as well.
I've been running the most current versions of both, my MBP & Roon since they were available without any issue whatsoever.
Just tonight, all of the sudden I can't open the Roon app. I've found someone with the same issue running Windows 10 on Roon Labs Support and replied about my issue as well so I'll just wait for a response. Thanks again to both of you, I appreciate it.


----------



## OceanRanger

Happy to help. Roon support has been pretty responsive for me as well. I had an issue with 763, but it seemed to be DAC related.


----------



## joseph69

Didn't really want to do a backup of my Roon folder thinking there was just a glitch with the app, but on the advice of a Roon Labs member I went ahead and did so from a backup I had on an SSD being I was still having an issue launching the Roon app all day today. Sure enough my issue launching Roon is resolved after the restoring the Roon folder. Thanks to all who suggested remedies, I appreciate it.

PS: @OceanRanger 
How did your DAC relate to an issue with launching Roon?


----------



## OceanRanger

joseph69 said:


> Didn't really want to do a backup of my Roon folder thinking there was just a glitch with the app, but on the advice of a Roon Labs member I went ahead and did so from a backup I had on an SSD being I was still having an issue launching the Roon app all day today. Sure enough my issue launching Roon is resolved after the restoring the Roon folder. Thanks to all who suggested remedies, I appreciate it.
> 
> PS: @OceanRanger
> How did your DAC relate to an issue with launching Roon?


My issue was brief intermittent dropouts with 763 when playing via usb to a Hugo2, not launching Roon. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## jimmychan

Backing up of the Roon is very important. I did several times have to restore from the backup to cure some unknow problems.


----------



## boxster233

jimmychan said:


> Backing up of the Roon is very important. I did several times have to restore from the backup to cure some unknow problems.


Does the backup save library selections or is it for other things?


----------



## OceanRanger

Library selections, tags, playlists, ratings and corrections to metadata are all saved. I believe that device settings are also saved, though I am not positive on that item. I'm not sure if other data is saved.


----------



## jimmychan

It backs up everything that you need to restore to a previous status.


----------



## joseph69

OceanRanger said:


> Library selections, tags, playlists, ratings and corrections to metadata are all saved. I believe that device settings are also saved, though I am not positive on that item. I'm not sure if other data is saved.


As @jimmychan mentioned, it backs up everything you need to restore.
After restoring Roon from my external SSD backup I did a restore again from my Roon backups to bring my library up to date.


----------



## MLGrado

I have had a love/hate relationship so far with Roon.  Running on a Mac Mini 2014 model as core, hard-wired into network, I have one client on Windows HP all-in-one PC hard wired to network, and all my music is on a slower NAS... a Synology 1512+ but I have rarely had any issues with speed or performance with it.  I run no extra packages, rarely come close to maxing out ram or cpu use.  Playback via SMB on other software like Aurdirvana on the Mac and JRiver on the PC are flawless performers practically, with the only reason I don't use use Audirvana all the time is that is only seems to have option to load entire files into memory, and I have some large single DSD256 files that wont fit the 8GB memory on the Mac, and the memory on this model is non-upgradable.  

Well, I first could not get Roon to find my NAS via SMB, so I did what the do NOT recommend and I mounted my music folder on the NAS as a hard drive.  It worked fine, always played flawlessly, the only issue was always having to make sure the drive was mounted at all times, such as on restarts you had to manually re-mount.  

FINALLY, though, I got it to work direct via SMB.  But it would 'choke and spit' so to speak on import, start, stop, only partially work etc.  Now, I don't think it was ANYTHING different I tried, but it started just working perfectly one day.  All files loaded and my library is HUGE at over 6 terrabytes.  

But the suddenly I have started getting dropouts in playback after flawless performance for months.  No changes made by me other than the Roon software auto-updates.  I seemed to get that cleared up with few efficiency settings on the Synology and rebooting everything.  But then last night, I was listening and what I was listening to suddenly stopped and said 'file deleted'.  Then I watch in HORROR as it deletes every single file in my database.  And now I am trying to re-do the library and its loading, but is EXCRUCIATINGLY slow.  At this pace it may be DAYS before its done it seems.  

Of course I just did an experiment with JRiver on the PC while Roon was still churning, and a fresh install of JRiver had imported my entire 6TB library in 10 or 15 minutes.  

So I know the Roon import is server based, and this has to be a major part of the problem.  I switched the metadata import preferences to use my local file for metadata instead of the Roon server and that has sped things up quite a bit, but no miracles yet.  


Anyone ever just have Roon decide to delete your entire library right in front of your face when all you were doing was in the middle of a listening session that had already been over an hour???


----------



## bearFNF (Apr 28, 2021)

Never had it do that. that would not be good.

For the slow part were you talking about that WRT analyzing while it brings in your data again? If so, you might want to try giving it more cores to work with? Under settings->library, background audio analysis speeed and on-demand audio analysis, might help while importing the data again?


----------



## GRUMPYOLDGUY

OceanRanger said:


> I'm currently using a Macbook as a core and am contemplating a dedicated streaming device. I listen in two different locations so using the Macbook is quite convenient to transport between these locations. Adding a dedicated streaming device to one means that I'll have the Macbook and the dedicated device, both acting as cores, via the same subscription. This will work fine as I only use one core at a time. I'm just not sure how easy it is to manage my library across two different devices. Is anyone else running two cores on the same subscription? Any thoughts or comments on this experience? What works well and/or what you find frustrating?



I opted to install OpenVPN on my server (roon core) at home and generate client config files for each of my devices. I also have a registered domain name with dynamic DNS service (for the princely sum of $12/yr) and a DDNS client running to update the records every couple of hours. So I just VPN into mydomain.net and my devices are now annexed to my home network using a secure tunnel over the internet. Then it's business as usual - fire up the roon remote app, and it sees the core and allows me to stream my music as if everything was on my home network. Works quite well - even with LTE on the opposite coast.


----------



## Forsaked

GRUMPYOLDGUY said:


> I opted to install OpenVPN on my server (roon core) at home and generate client config files for each of my devices. I also have a registered domain name with dynamic DNS service (for the princely sum of $12/yr) and a DDNS client running to update the records every couple of hours. So I just VPN into mydomain.net and my devices are now annexed to my home network using a secure tunnel over the internet. Then it's business as usual - fire up the roon remote app, and it sees the core and allows me to stream my music as if everything was on my home network. Works quite well - even with LTE on the opposite coast.



Or just use ZeroTier and skip the whole Domain/DNS part.


----------



## S0undJunk1e

Very new Roon user,   can anyone explain why I would want to also get the HQ player?  Is it more of a specific use case (like if you want the filters or upsampling) or is it also a more universal improvement in sound quality?


----------



## DrTone

S0undJunk1e said:


> Very new Roon user,   can anyone explain why I would want to also get the HQ player?  Is it more of a specific use case (like if you want the filters or upsampling) or is it also a more universal improvement in sound quality?



Upsampling and filters/modulators.


----------



## Mediahound

If you use Tidal with Roon, here's how to set Roon so MQA does not make money:



You will still be getting the MQA'ed file from Tidal (folded), but at least MQA will not make money off you.

Unfortunately, the fact that for releases marked as Master, Tidal now no longer offers the option to stream the actual lossless flac, means Tidal no longer offers lossless streaming. Even on the non "Masters" hifi quality setting, it simply streams the MQA file.


----------



## rkw

Mediahound said:


> If you use Tidal with Roon, here's how to set Roon so MQA does not make money:
> ...
> You will still be getting the MQA'ed file from Tidal (folded), but at least MQA will not make money off you.


This doesn't make sense to me. You're implying that MQA receives royalties on a per-play basis, and only when software unfolding is enabled. I seriously doubt either of those cases. It isn't how licensing works in the music industry.


----------



## Mediahound

rkw said:


> This doesn't make sense to me. You're implying that MQA receives royalties on a per-play basis, and only when software unfolding is enabled. I seriously doubt either of those cases. It isn't how licensing works in the music industry.



It is in fact  that way through Roon.



> The terms are complicated and not worth going into, but simply put: if you don’t core decode, we don’t pay.
> 
> When we introduced MQA support, we didn’t raise the price, so MQA has always been a cost center for us. If you core decode, we make less profit. If you don’t core decode, we make more profit. It’s almost that simple.


From Roon: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/why-do-manufacturers-support-mqa/155965/294?u=mediahound


----------



## rlw6534

Mediahound said:


> It is in fact  that way through Roon.
> 
> 
> From Roon: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/why-do-manufacturers-support-mqa/155965/294?u=mediahound



For some reason, it makes me a bit uneasy that Roon knows what my settings are and which switches are on.  Just saying...  Wonder what else they are keeping track of...


----------



## Mediahound

rlw6534 said:


> For some reason, it makes me a bit uneasy that Roon knows what my settings are and which switches are on.  Just saying...  Wonder what else they are keeping track of...



I'm sure your entire listening history and listening preferences. That's how they surface personalized recommendations to you. 

All streaming services do that, Tidal, Qobuz, Apple, and Youtube for videos, etc.


----------



## rlw6534

Mediahound said:


> I'm sure your entire listening history and listening preferences. That's how they surface personalized recommendations to you.
> 
> All streaming services do that, Tidal, Qobuz, Apple, and Youtube for videos, etc.



Actually that makes perfect sense.   I guess I should read the privacy policy.


----------



## Strayngs

I for one love Roon, the only streaming hicup I have ever had was Tidal inexplicably deleted an account I had bought for my Dad. My Dad loves to make lists and it deleated all the work he had put into it. Wierd. I am a big supporter. I just wish the lifetime was lower.


----------



## Forsaked

I think about going a Roon MOCK build, with ROCK running on it or even Linux/W10 with Roon-Server,.
The whole build cost less then a 10th Gen NUC Barebone, while the CPU eats the NUC for breakfast.
The 4TB SSD for the library is aleady laying around at my home.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Hi fellow Roon users
This appears to be tbe thread with the most activity so here goes: 
Question about streaming tracks from Roon to multiple endpoints (Bluesound Node and Sonore MicroRendu) in different parts of the house


. I run Roon using a 2016 MacBook as my core running Amphetamine app to avoid inadvertent restarts and have stopped all automatic updates. My main streamer is a 2016- era SONORE MicroRendu connecting to an IFi micro IDSD -or- a Hiby R8. I mostly use the Roon app on my MacBook Pro all on the same network and have had zero problems streaming anything. My digital library is limited (~2000 tracks) and I am a TIDAL user (not yet Qobuz- soon maybe). I love that I can access my TIDAL playlists in Roon though I mostly manage them in TIDAL. Everything is hard-wired to my Google WifI mesh network wifi points - which works without a hitch

My main motivation is the PEQ DSP. I have set up different profiles for all my IEMS and HPs, and love the option to use DoP to upsample my tracks. Roon also works fine for my native DSD files too.

Next I am Adding a Bluesound Node to the mix at Christmas and looking forward to learn how to stream the same tracks thru different Endpoints or different tracks to different Endpoints - any advice on that score anyone?


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 15, 2021)

Awesome to hear you are having a good experience with Roon. 

I have had very little issues with grouping zones or playing different tracks to different zones.
The only thing to remember is that you can only group zones of the same type. For me I can't group my KEF LS50W with any other zones, so I have to feed it with a RPi/hifiberry hat running RoPieee in order to group what is playing to the KEF with what is playing in other rooms in the house.

Another example is RAAT zones can not be grouped with Squeezebox zones.
see the "zone grouping" section of this KB for more info.
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/zone#Other_Ways_to_Transfer_Zone


----------



## jlemaster1957

bearFNF said:


> Awesome to hear you are having a good experience with Roon.
> 
> I have had very little issues with grouping zones or playing different tracks to different zones.
> The only thing to remember is that you can only group zones of the same type. For me I can't group my KEF LS50W with any other zones, so I have to feed it with a RPi/hifiberry hat running RoPieee in order to group what is playing to the KEF with what is playing in other rooms in the house.
> ...


Thanks- the whole concept of Squeezebox and HQPlayer remains opaque to me. I thought maybe these were a class of Endpoint or something. Is there a Roon web page that explains these concepts further?


----------



## bearFNF

jlemaster1957 said:


> Thanks- the whole concept of Squeezebox and HQPlayer remains opaque to me. I thought maybe these were a class of Endpoint or something. Is there a Roon web page that explains these concepts further?


There should be something over on the Roon forums.. https://community.roonlabs.com/
There are dedicated categories for each of these. I do not use either of them.


----------



## grokit

There's a thread on roon labs about how to make a bit-perfect endpoint on an Android device, by making it a Squeezebox/Squeezelite server. I don't know if it applies here. When I searched for "roon dx300" it was on top of the results.


----------



## 529128

I am contemplating setting up a Roon Core but I am on a very limited budget. I will not need to stream anything apart from Tidal or at least very few FLAC albums. So I guess this does not require a very powerful setup. I was thinking getting a 2nd hand NUC or something similar. But how low can I go in regards to specs?
I would like to stream to a RPi4 connected to my BF2 via either Volumio or Ropieee.


----------



## bfreedma

henrikgadegaard said:


> I am contemplating setting up a Roon Core but I am on a very limited budget. I will not need to stream anything apart from Tidal or at least very few FLAC albums. So I guess this does not require a very powerful setup. I was thinking getting a 2nd hand NUC or something similar. But how low can I go in regards to specs?
> I would like to stream to a RPi4 connected to my BF2 via either Volumio or Ropieee.



Streaming on it's own has minimal impact on performance requirements when compared to the other components of Roon, particularly EQ, so I wouldn't worry about it either way.

The answer will largely depend on your use of EQ, use of add on products, and to a lesser degree, library size and how dynamic it is - frequent changes will drive reindexing.  In my case, I have a library of approximately 40000 songs (stored on another device), stream Qobuz, and lightly utilize EQ.  My i3 NUC rarely goes over 15% CPU usage and I've never had any performance issues with the setup.

If you use processor intensive add ons like HQPlayer, an i5 NUC would be the minimum CPU and I'd recommend an I7.


----------



## peterinvan (Dec 23, 2021)

*OVERHEATING IMAC*

I have an iMac 27” 2011 running windows 7 under Bootcamp. Running Roon would boost the GPU Diode temp to 99 degrees!
Solution;
Use the standard Windows 7 setting in display preferences
Minimize Roon when playing (the temp drops right away)

BTW, I use Roon only to obtain EQ when using Tidal.  I like the remote app on my iPad Pro.


----------



## rkw (Dec 23, 2021)

henrikgadegaard said:


> I am contemplating setting up a Roon Core but I am on a very limited budget. I will not need to stream anything apart from Tidal or at least very few FLAC albums. So I guess this does not require a very powerful setup. I was thinking getting a 2nd hand NUC or something similar. But how low can I go in regards to specs?
> I would like to stream to a RPi4 connected to my BF2 via either Volumio or Ropieee.


I'd like to ask what are your goals. For only for Tidal and a few local music files, setting up Roon is a big step that gives relatively small benefit. It may not be worth it on a very limited budget.

Without Roon, an RPi running Volumio Premium would give you a streamer that supports Tidal (and Tidal Connect) and local music library. Volumio Premium subscription is €60/annual or €6.50/monthly.

For Roon, can you run it on a computer that you already have? I run Roon Core on my daily Mac laptop. Of course it needs to be running while I use Roon but it hasn't been a problem for me. For a limited budget, remember that Roon is USD$120/annual or USD$13/monthly.


----------



## peterinvan

I have Roon Remote on Android 7 Fiio M11 Pro DAP, but it does not let me adjust the presets. I cannot select the Audeze preset of choice for example. Any suggestions?


----------



## rkw

peterinvan said:


> I have Roon Remote on Android 7 Fiio M11 Pro DAP, but it does not let me adjust the presets. I cannot select the Audeze preset of choice for example. Any suggestions?


On mobile apps, only available on tablets: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/configuring-dsp-from-roon-android-app/156888


----------



## jlemaster1957 (Jan 1, 2022)

henrikgadegaard said:


> I am contemplating setting up a Roon Core but I am on a very limited budget. I will not need to stream anything apart from Tidal or at least very few FLAC albums. So I guess this does not require a very powerful setup. I was thinking getting a 2nd hand NUC or something similar. But how low can I go in regards to specs?
> I would like to stream to a RPi4 connected to my BF2 via either Volumio or Ropieee.


I have been using a 2016 MacBook as a Core (no longer using for anything else, I had it in the house) hardwired to my Google Wifi router with each streamer hardwired to a different wifi point elsewhere in the house all on t e same wifi network- works a charm. This sort of thing could work for you if you have a small FLAC library. I have only ~2000 tracks and thought I would be fine till I got too enamoured with NativeDSD (which Roon handles fine) and now I am running out of hard drive space- so the think about downloads etc

The key is to using a MacBook Amphetamine app (or something like it) to keep the MacBook running 24/7 and turn off all automatic updates- as all these will interfere with Roon server on tbe Core or shut it down.


----------



## jlemaster1957

BTW Just added Bluesound Node and 3 PulseFlex2i speakers grouped together in the BluoOs app and all streaming Roon from my 2016 MacBook core without difficulty- speakers connecting to Bluesound by Wifi, Bluesound hardwired to Google Wifi point in tbe living room, via which Roon Core detects it. I can control playback both in the Roon Player and the BluOS App (either). Haven’t quite worked out how to control playback for all 3 speakers with the BluOS remote at the same time- volume control works easy enough in BluOS app but having got the remote i want to work out how to use it to control volume on all the speakers at once (advice anyone?). Our abode is too humble (read:messy) to show pix, but I wanted to celebrate that everything connects to Roon! My earlier stated issue about the Roon zones proved moot as I can control what speakers play ie mute one if I want; or how they are grouped to play together all in the BluOS app on my iPhone. 👍


----------



## Whya Duck

bfreedma said:


> Streaming on it's own has minimal impact on performance requirements when compared to the other components of Roon, particularly EQ, so I wouldn't worry about it either way.
> 
> The answer will largely depend on your use of EQ, use of add on products, and to a lesser degree, library size and how dynamic it is - frequent changes will drive reindexing.  In my case, I have a library of approximately 40000 songs (stored on another device), stream Qobuz, and lightly utilize EQ.  My i3 NUC rarely goes over 15% CPU usage and I've never had any performance issues with the setup.
> 
> If you use processor intensive add ons like HQPlayer, an i5 NUC would be the minimum CPU and I'd recommend an I7.


I'm using an 2018 I3 Mac min as my Roon core (with 32GB RAM) and I was surprised at how little Roon pushes it. Although I don't run HQPlayer, I do use Roon parametric EQ and have found my bottom-of-the-line Mac mini to be sufficient.


----------



## jlemaster1957

Whya Duck said:


> I'm using an 2018 I3 Mac min as my Roon core (with 32GB RAM) and I was surprised at how little Roon pushes it. Although I don't run HQPlayer, I do use Roon parametric EQ and have found my bottom-of-the-line Mac mini to be sufficient.


Using the same: I think the amount of RAM has a big impact. I also think the endpoint DAC/Amps and speakers or HPs have by far a bigger effect. Listening tonight via Bluesound Node 2021 -> Flex 2i speakers with a bit of Roon PEQ thrown in to elevate the base and treble a bit and quite amazed at all I can hear that I was not picking up via my Sonore 2016 era 1.3 MicroRendu streaming to an IFi micro iDSD- the Flex’s have an incredibly fast bass element with great punch and slam and smooth liquid vocals and a sparkly upper treble with no hint of glare. 

So INCREDIBLY not sorry I haven’t yet invested in a Roon Nucleus- the Mac is just FINE.


----------



## peterinvan (Jan 27, 2022)

duplicate deleted


----------



## peterinvan

Strayngs said:


> I for one love Roon, the only streaming hicup I have ever had was Tidal inexplicably deleted an account I had bought for my Dad. My Dad loves to make lists and it deleated all the work he had put into it. Wierd. I am a big supporter. I just wish the lifetime was lower.



One excellent feature in Roon is the ability to export a Soundiz .CSV of any Tidal playlist.  I consider these as a backup in case of issues with Tidal.


----------



## fordski

peterinvan said:


> One excellent feature in Roon is the ability to export a Soundiz .CSV of any Tidal playlist.  I consider these as a backup in case of issues with Tidal.


Thanks of this. I also use the CSV with Apple Music to create playlists for my Apple devices. Works great!


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

I’m loving Roon. After using a laptop as a core for a long time, I got an absolutely ridiculous deal on eBay for a NUC 6 for $106 with an ssd and ram already installed and a clean OS. Updated the bios and installed rock (this was very easy and I get really nervous with technical computer stuff, just follow the directions on the Roon site). Roon remote is now blazing fast and rock solid. Im so pumped about it I even convinced myself it sounds better, but I know that’s not true lol. Give it a shot, it’s fantastic not having to have to remember to boot up a laptop, keep it running so it doesn’t die etc.


----------



## bearFNF

Uncle00Jesse said:


> I’m loving Roon. After using a laptop as a core for a long time, I got an absolutely ridiculous deal on eBay for a NUC 6 for $106 with an ssd and ram already installed and a clean OS. Updated the bios and installed rock (this was very easy and I get really nervous with technical computer stuff, just follow the directions on the Roon site). Roon remote is now blazing fast and rock solid. Im so pumped about it I even convinced myself it sounds better, but I know that’s not true lol. Give it a shot, it’s fantastic not having to have to remember to boot up a laptop, keep it running so it doesn’t die etc.


That is a smokin' deal. I have ROCK on a NUC also and it works great. Did it come with a storage SSD as well as the OS SSD? If so, that was really good deal, if not can you add a storage SSD? Depends on the case, though. It would speed up access even more having the music local on the NUC, even if you just plugged in an external drive.


----------



## joseph69

Unfortunately, I'm hating Roon right now!
I logged out yesterday and have been trying to login countless times with the absolute correct credentials, and Roon keeps saying "subscription expired" when I have a "lifetime subscription". Started a thread on the Roon Community (which was given a new title) only to find that many members are having this same issue as well as other issue with Roon. To top it all off, there is no support right now, at all...not even 1 reply from the team. Anyone here have trouble logging out, then back into Roon?


----------



## kumar402

Whya Duck said:


> I'm using an 2018 I3 Mac min as my Roon core (with 32GB RAM) and I was surprised at how little Roon pushes it. Although I don't run HQPlayer, I do use Roon parametric EQ and have found my bottom-of-the-line Mac mini to be sufficient.


Unless you have a huge huge library and use HQPlayer with very demanding filter and higher frequency upsampling, even a basic system with latest OS is enough for Roon.


----------



## bearFNF (Feb 21, 2022)

joseph69 said:


> Unfortunately, I'm hating Roon right now!
> I logged out yesterday and have been trying to login countless times with the absolute correct credentials, and Roon keeps saying "subscription expired" when I have a "lifetime subscription". Started a thread on the Roon Community (which was given a new title) only to find that many members are having this same issue as well as other issue with Roon. To top it all off, there is no support right now, at all...not even 1 reply from the team. Anyone here have trouble logging out, then back into Roon?


I have seen several threads over there that say they are having issues. I also saw one now two that said some of the authentication servers were down. Take that with a grain of salt as it was not from a Roon support person. I hesitate to log out and then back in to "test" it.... I need my music or it's real quiet around here.
 Although this might be why I was having some difficultly getting one of my Rpi's with RoPieee running a day or so ago??


----------



## joseph69

bearFNF said:


> I have seen several threads over there that say they are having issues. I also saw one now two that said some of the authentication servers were down. Take that with a grain of salt as it was not from a Roon support person. I hesitate to log out and then back in to "test" it.... I need my music or it's real quiet around here.
> Although this might be why I was having some difficultly getting one of my Rpi's with RoPieee running a day or so ago??


Although there were several posts about Roon having issues over the weekend I wasn't effected by any of them mentioned over there. 
My issue was 100% my fault with my email address when trying to login. Prior to purchasing the lifetime subscription, I used my Verizon email address, but apparently when I purchased the lifetime subscription I changed the email address to an iCloud account. The funny thing was that I was able to login to the Roon Community and fully navigate it with my Verizon address. I could also login to roonlabs.com with my Verizon address, but it would say "Hello, Joseph" (as if I was logged in) but had a message saying "You don't have a Roon account" all while showing a prompt to 'log out' on the screen. Very strange. Anyway, all my own issue. Thanks for the reply, and I'm loving Roon again!


----------



## Mediahound

Gotta love this new Roon setting in their latest update 'prefer anything else over MQA'. I'll be setting that for sure.


----------



## TheFrator

They finally added the option to skip "Clean" versions of songs! It's 'No' by default.


----------



## bearFNF (Jul 7, 2022)

TheFrator said:


> They finally added the option to skip "Clean" versions of songs! It's 'No' by default.


Per the More Info in Roon:
"This option controls which content is _*preferred*_ in cases _*when both edited and explicit content are available*_."
So not necessarily "skipping" the clean version in all cases.


----------



## Mediahound

I really wish Roon would consider adding Apple Music streaming.


----------



## bfreedma

Mediahound said:


> I really wish Roon would consider adding Apple Music streaming.



That would require Apple‘s cooperation, which isn’t happening.  Nothing Roon can do without access.


----------



## rkw

Mediahound said:


> I really wish Roon would consider adding Apple Music streaming.


None of the major services (Spotify, Apple, Amazon) are interested in partnering with Roon. They all want to connect directly with the customer for marketing and business reasons.

There is a long thread on the Roon community forum about Apple Music integration.
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/apple-music-integration-with-new-apple-music-web-api/27052


----------



## mikeyhd

would like roon with apple too, but it won't happen anytime soon, so I ditch roon and use only AM


----------



## DougD

rkw said:


> None of the major services (Spotify, Apple, Amazon) are interested in partnering with Roon. They all want to connect directly with the customer for marketing and business reasons.


That makes sense.

Unfortunately. (For Roon users.)


----------



## ra990 (Jul 13, 2022)

I came across this little cheap, mini, fanless PC on Amazon and decided to try it as a Roon Bridge. Out of the box it comes preloaded with a pretty optimized version of Windows 11 Pro that passed DPC latency checker with flying colors. I connected it to a USB DAC and I now have a little Roon Streamer for $250...did I mention it's fanless and the size of a cell phone? I'm certain this would even be able to run Roon Server, which could make it your core. It's been streaming music non-stop and flawlessly for the past 48 hours, so I can give it a strong endorsement.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XB3WL91

Edit: on sale for prime day!


----------



## fordski

Something's coming on Tuesday! Roon Tweet


----------



## swspiers

Any ideas?


----------



## Audio Addict

swspiers said:


> Any ideas?


I am not sure but maybe Roon 2.0 would be guess.


----------



## Strayngs

Rumors are Roon mobile. Not sure how that would work. But whatever it is, I am excited.


----------



## fordski

Strayngs said:


> Rumors are Roon mobile. Not sure how that would work. But whatever it is, I am excited.


That seems to be the most popular rumor out there. There's an active discussion on the Roon Forums


----------



## kumar402

It shows ppl enjoying music outdoors with Roon so definitely it’s Roon going mobile. I would be disappointed if it doesn’t turn out to be.


----------



## S Crowther

vo_obgyn said:


> Has anybody compared Roon SQ versus Pure Music and/or Audirvana Plus SQ?


I have Roon and Audirvāna. I prefer there SQ of Audirvana but Roon is more convenient and the difference is not great.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

ra990 said:


> I came across this little cheap, mini, fanless PC on Amazon and decided to try it as a Roon Bridge. Out of the box it comes preloaded with a pretty optimized version of Windows 11 Pro that passed DPC latency checker with flying colors. I connected it to a USB DAC and I now have a little Roon Streamer for $250...did I mention it's fanless and the size of a cell phone? I'm certain this would even be able to run Roon Server, which could make it your core. It's been streaming music non-stop and flawlessly for the past 48 hours, so I can give it a strong endorsement.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XB3WL91
> 
> Edit: on sale for prime day!


I’ve been using that unit for the past couple years as as mobile Roon server when I travel. Works remarkably well.


----------



## ra990 (Sep 18, 2022)

Daniel Johnston said:


> I’ve been using that unit for the past couple years as as mobile Roon server when I travel. Works remarkably well.


They just came out with an upgraded unit (same price) that is PD compatible, so you can even power it off a battery pack now. These things are insanely useful and what impressed me was how optimized they were right out of the box. No bloat, and double digit low DPC latency numbers. Ideal for realtime audio streaming over USB.


----------



## Qualitas

Strayngs said:


> Rumors are Roon mobile. Not sure how that would work. But whatever it is, I am excited.





fordski said:


> That seems to be the most popular rumor out there. There's an active discussion on the Roon Forums





kumar402 said:


> It shows ppl enjoying music outdoors with Roon so definitely it’s Roon going mobile. I would be disappointed if it doesn’t turn out to be.


Super interesting.  I really do hope it's roon mobile.  But I can't say that's what I'm getting from the teasers.  To me they imply something about music videos.  Who knows, maybe we'll get both...


----------



## carbonF1

Whatever it is, I'm scared.


----------



## esmse

I'm not sure it's going to be full mobile, I'm more expecting a scenario where you can 'download' playlists or albums for offline (read: not connected to your home network) usage.


----------



## fordski

esmse said:


> I'm not sure it's going to be full mobile, I'm more expecting a scenario where you can 'download' playlists or albums for offline (read: not connected to your home network) usage


For those of us with limited data plans that would be ideal. 

Also... according to twitter the announcement time is today at 16:00 UTC...google it for your local time....


----------



## jlemaster1957

fordski said:


> For those of us with limited data plans that would be ideal.
> 
> Also... according to twitter the announcement time is today at 16:00 UTC...google it for your local time....


Tick…tick….tick. Fingers drumming…


----------



## psklrdk

Roon Arc app ist in store already online. Update for Roon Desktop App also


----------



## bfreedma

psklrdk said:


> Roon Arc app ist in store already online. Update for Roon Desktop App also



Just upgraded my core, desktop, and mobile apps.  Everything went smoothly and now able to stream local files with WiFi turned off including a 192/24 track.  Obviously more testing needed to declare success, but the base install was identical to previous upgrades (just click upgrade all devices)

It did take Roon a few minutes to be able to connect remotely, so give the installs a little time to finish and enable ARC.


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

Compared to Roon 1.8....2.0 sounds thin and washed out. I knew I shouldn't have updated.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

bfreedma said:


> Just upgraded my core, desktop, and mobile apps.  Everything went smoothly and now able to stream local files with WiFi turned off including a 192/24 track.  Obviously more testing needed to declare success, but the base install was identical to previous upgrades (just click upgrade all devices)
> 
> It did take Roon a few minutes to be able to connect remotely, so give the installs a little time to finish and enable ARC.


ARC clearly using compression.

I‘ve used a VPN connection to my Roon core and get stuttering with any resolution higher than 16/44. I’m streaming 24/176 on ARC no issues. Looking at my data stream, I’m maxing out at 1.3Mbps.  

I guess we’ll find out soon enough.


----------



## Qualitas

Looks like we got the update many of us have been waiting a long time for.  It will be a while before I have a spare moment to get this installed.  But what I'm really curious about is whether ARC will only be able to stream to a smartphone, or whether we'll be able to use the ARC app to stream over wifi to a roon endpoint (like say the Mojo2 + Poly combo)--for example on a hotel's wifi network, or at a second home or when visiting friends and family.  



cAsE sEnSiTiVe said:


> Compared to Roon 1.8....2.0 sounds thin and washed out. I knew I shouldn't have updated.


How much time have you spent listening to it so far? Didn't it just drop like an hour ago?


----------



## Daniel Johnston

Qualitas said:


> Looks like we got the update many of us have been waiting a long time for.  It will be a while before I have a spare moment to get this installed.  But what I'm really curious about is whether ARC will only be able to stream to a smartphone, or whether we'll be able to use the ARC app to stream over wifi to a roon endpoint (like say the Mojo2 + Poly combo)--for example on a hotel's wifi network, or at a second home or when visiting friends and family.
> 
> 
> How much time have you spent listening to it so far? Didn't it just drop like an hour ago?


I‘m using it now.

It's just an app that streams to a device. There isn’t a way I can see how a poly or 2go can use ARC without software support on the poly or 2go.

It really looks and feels no different than the native Roon app sans ability to configure core and devices.


----------



## bfreedma (Sep 20, 2022)

Daniel Johnston said:


> ARC clearly using compression.
> 
> I‘ve used a VPN connection to my Roon core and get stuttering with any resolution higher than 16/44. I’m streaming 24/176 on ARC no issues. Looking at my data stream, I’m maxing out at 1.3Mbps.
> 
> I guess we’ll find out soon enough.



If having some compression (only mobile) is the price to be paid for v1.0 of Roon mobile access, I'm good.  Better to have compression than data throughput issues/stuttering.  Once Roon gets a handle on the impact to their back end and end users, I strongly suspect that any compression will be eliminated.


----------



## cAsE sEnSiTiVe

Qualitas said:


> Looks like we got the update many of us have been waiting a long time for.  It will be a while before I have a spare moment to get this installed.  But what I'm really curious about is whether ARC will only be able to stream to a smartphone, or whether we'll be able to use the ARC app to stream over wifi to a roon endpoint (like say the Mojo2 + Poly combo)--for example on a hotel's wifi network, or at a second home or when visiting friends and family.
> 
> 
> How much time have you spent listening to it so far? Didn't it just drop like an hour ago?


I installed it about two hours ago. I listened to Ver 1.8 for a couple of hours early this morning.....in the middle of listening, saw the popup for the new update. Downloaded it....rebooted my Roon Rock, as well as the tablet, went right back to what I was listening to before....and it was VERY noticeable. It takes all of 10 seconds to hear the difference....if you are intimately familiar with your system, that is.


----------



## bfreedma

cAsE sEnSiTiVe said:


> I installed it about two hours ago. I listened to Ver 1.8 for a couple of hours early this morning.....in the middle of listening, saw the popup for the new update. Downloaded it....rebooted my Roon Rock, as well as the tablet, went right back to what I was listening to before....and it was VERY noticeable. It takes all of 10 seconds to hear the difference....if you are intimately familiar with your system, that is.



Here we go again.

Every release over the last 5 years has had people claiming the SQ has gone down.  Roon should be equivalent to a badly worn cassette tape by now...

When someone can repeatedly differentiate Roon versions in a DBT, I'll start to worry.


----------



## rlw6534

Still using Android Audio with SRC, no high resolution or MQA on my DX170 DAP.  Anyone seeing different results on DAPs?


----------



## Qualitas

Daniel Johnston said:


> It's just an app that streams to a device. There isn’t a way I can see how a poly or 2go can use ARC without software support on the poly or 2go.


I am at the very limits of my knowledge with this stuff, so I'll preface with that caveat.  But poly and (I believe) 2go have built in support to function as either a Roon or UPnP endpoint.  If ARC is able to output to a roon ready endpoint on the same wifi network, then what I am describing should work. I think all it would take is for Roon to build this functionality into ARC, if it's not already present.

But after thinking on it a bit more: I suppose there is already the option for iOS users to use airplay for similar functionality.  It just wouldn't be bit-perfect and requires the iOS device to be the intermediary.  The signal chain would be something like:  Source files / Roon Core -> Roon ARC -> AirPlay -> Chord Poly/2go.  This would be more than sufficient for my purposes of listening to my home/local library when I'm traveling, or at the office.  16/44.1 is just fine by me, though bit-perfect would just be the icing on the cake.  Android users would likely need to resort to bluetooth unfortunately, or perhaps there's a portable chromecast endpoint that I'm not aware of. 

Either way this is a game changer for me, with all of my music now under one app/ecosystem, regardless of whether at home or away.  Except @#&!%*! Spotify....


----------



## kundica

rlw6534 said:


> Still using Android Audio with SRC, no high resolution or MQA on my DX170 DAP.  Anyone seeing different results on DAPs?


It won't even work on my DX320. Errors out on playback of any track. Seems to run fine on my phone but I haven't checked with a dongle to check resampling.


----------



## bfreedma

First downside of 2.0 for me is the lack of an iPad native app.  The iPhone app works, but only in portrait mode so not ideal and not as easy to use on an iPad as a native app would be,

Roon states a native iPad app will be available in the future..


----------



## kckfor

Roon now works on iPad in regular mode too. Do you have the lyes room remote app?


----------



## Daniel Johnston

Qualitas said:


> I am at the very limits of my knowledge with this stuff, so I'll preface with that caveat.  But poly and (I believe) 2go have built in support to function as either a Roon or UPnP endpoint.  If ARC is able to output to a roon ready endpoint on the same wifi network, then what I am describing should work. I think all it would take is for Roon to build this functionality into ARC, if it's not already present.
> 
> But after thinking on it a bit more: I suppose there is already the option for iOS users to use airplay for similar functionality.  It just wouldn't be bit-perfect and requires the iOS device to be the intermediary.  The signal chain would be something like:  Source files / Roon Core -> Roon ARC -> AirPlay -> Chord Poly/2go.  This would be more than sufficient for my purposes of listening to my home/local library when I'm traveling, or at the office.  16/44.1 is just fine by me, though bit-perfect would just be the icing on the cake.  Android users would likely need to resort to bluetooth unfortunately, or perhaps there's a portable chromecast endpoint that I'm not aware of.
> 
> Either way this is a game changer for me, with all of my music now under one app/ecosystem, regardless of whether at home or away.  Except @#&!%*! Spotify....


You are correct. 

In order to use ARC, Chord would have to build that into the onboard software of Poly and 2go. Roon calls it Roon ARC Playback Engine By the way. The Poly and 2go use RAAT.

I doubt ARC is bit perfect so AirPlay should be fine.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

kundica said:


> It won't even work on my DX320. Errors out on playback of any track. Seems to run fine on my phone but I haven't checked with a dongle to check resampling.


Works on my dx320. However, I’m using OpenVPN to access my server.

The ARC app is using android audio, so 16/44 it is. I highly doubt ARC is streaming over 16/44 since the bit rate is about 1.3Mbps.


----------



## kundica (Sep 20, 2022)

Daniel Johnston said:


> Works on my dx320. However, I’m using OpenVPN to access my server.
> 
> The ARC app is using android audio, so 16/44 it is. I highly doubt ARC is streaming over 16/44 since the bit rate is about 1.3Mbps.


Interesting. Which firmware are you using? I'm on the previous one so maybe that's causing issues. I did notice in the settings you can manually tell ARC the quality you want to stream with.

EDIT:  Ignore my comment about it not working. It seems that having another playback app open in the background prevented it from working. Now it seems fine and now that it's working I can see the signal chain and how it's resampling the audio regardless of the settings selected. What a pity, you'd think with all the effort Roon makes on the desktop listening side they'd do what they can to not use Android SRC.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

kundica said:


> Interesting. Which firmware are you using? I'm on the previous one so maybe that's causing issues. I did notice in the settings you can manually tell ARC the quality you want to stream with.


I’m on the latest firmware.

I changed the quality to original format and the 24/176 track still had same max bit rate based on my wifi data usage monitor.

I really don’t care what wizardry they are using. If I can stream my library anywhere I go using Roon, I’m happy.


----------



## bfreedma

kckfor said:


> Roon now works on iPad in regular mode too. Do you have the lyes room remote app?



Until 2.0, there was a native iPad app.  Roon ARC doesn't have one yet.

Not familiar with the Lyes app - someone already has a 3rd party app that works with ARC?


----------



## esmse (Sep 20, 2022)

Its great, full mobile indeed, also with download option for offline usage. If now they could just make that one app only, its still 2 apps for home and outside so its still a hard sell for my spotify connect users at home.

My quick test, no-wifi, mobile data only, core on a i7 NUC, showed some stutter sometimes and some longer loading when I was playing from Tidal. When playing local NAS content I didn't have any stutter (yet) and the switching between songs felt a bit snappier on the local NAS album.

Quick test was with (almost) identical high-res albums, one MQA from Tidal, the other local 192/24 FLAC. Check the images for details but there is a difference in how they come through. For the MQA-stream it seems the conversions are on the app side, NAS file s are converted at server side. There is this odd Opus encoding that is new to me...

My 2 cents is maybe we're getting the folded MQA file from Tidal stream, which sounds thin compared to a fully unfolded MQA or a regular (high-res) FLAC. I haven't found any options on the ARC app or in the core settings to configure MQA behaviour like for other endpoints.




7





All in all very happy with the change, we'll see how this performs in the long run but it's already looking pretty good at release.
That I don't get best quality on mobile is no prob for me, I don't hear a difference on gear that I connect to 'outside' anyways.

edit: folded is not unfolded


----------



## swspiers

Roon mobile it is!!!


----------



## Audio Addict

With such an investment by Roon in mobile connectivity, how are they going to leverage this? 

Also if you are using Tidal or Qobuz, isn't this running it twice.  First you have to access ARC to request track selection, Roon Core has to go out and pull in that track from the internet and then sent it back to ARC to be listened to.  I would rather just use the Tidal / Qobuz app directly.

I don't see this enticing anyone to now buy Roon for $10 per month.  Am I missing something?


----------



## kckfor

Coming in a future release.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

Audio Addict said:


> With such an investment by Roon in mobile connectivity, how are they going to leverage this?
> 
> Also if you are using Tidal or Qobuz, isn't this running it twice.  First you have to access ARC to request track selection, Roon Core has to go out and pull in that track from the internet and then sent it back to ARC to be listened to.  I would rather just use the Tidal / Qobuz app directly.
> 
> I don't see this enticing anyone to now buy Roon for $10 per month.  Am I missing something?


For those of us with large collections, this is awesome. The integration with Qobuz/tidal is convenient. 

I especially like how the radio feature can be library only.


----------



## carbonF1

Something I saw over on the roon community I may have missed here: Roon Cores on 2.0 MUST have an active internet connection. No more 30-day checks for offline. This is due to using only the online search algorithm now.

Link from Danny explaining this change


----------



## ra990

I was driving around today, finally enjoying my Roon playlists in the car! It worked great, not a single hiccup and it sounded like CD quality.


----------



## S Crowther

Any other changes in roon 2? Any changes in  SQ?


----------



## KPzypher

Audio Addict said:


> Also if you are using Tidal or Qobuz, isn't this running it twice.  First you have to access ARC to request track selection, Roon Core has to go out and pull in that track from the internet and then sent it back to ARC to be listened to.  I would rather just use the Tidal / Qobuz app directly.
> 
> I don't see this enticing anyone to now buy Roon for $10 per month.  Am I missing something?


Yeah to my ears, native Tidal app sounds better than Tidal thru ARC, which sounds compressed/thin.

The only benefit I see at the moment is acces to Roon's UI on the go and being able to favorite tracks and add songs to playlists on the go, which is something i've wanted to do as i devote majority of my listening time discovering new artists and songs.


----------



## bearFNF

I would use the Roon Arc app only on the go and the regular remote app for home listening.
And just remember that ARC will use data on your phone rapidly if that is an issue for you.

BTW I have been listening to 2.0 for quite a while (early access beta testing) and did not notice a change in SQ. YMMV and all that. granted I am still on the early access version as they have not pushed out and update for me yet. Will be interesting to see if it changes...


----------



## DougD

Well, I'm EFFING PSSD about 2.0.

Upgrade to 2.0, it said.

No prominent warnings or ReadMe about why you might not want to.

So I did.

And after Roon Core was upgraded to 2.0 was when I discovered that my normal PC-based Roon remote app is incompatible and not upgradeable. 

Roon Core doesn't want to migrate back. (It's supposed to be able to.)

I do NOT like navigating around Roon on a tiny 3x6" screen. Totally ruins the experience.

Did I mention I'm PSSD? Yeah, I'm PSSD. 

[/rant]


----------



## ra990

DougD said:


> Well, I'm EFFING PSSD about 2.0.
> 
> Upgrade to 2.0, it said.
> 
> ...


I don't understand, why can't you also update your Roon remote app on your PC? What O/S are you running?


----------



## S Crowther

I don't see the point of it. When I am out I have my DAP which has all the same albums that are in my computer in the house.


----------



## DougD

ra990 said:


> I don't understand, why can't you also update your Roon remote app on your PC? What O/S are you running?



Win 7 on my desktop. (I've tried to upgrade that a couple of times, without success. I don't want to wipe out all my installed programs, I have a bunch.)

I'm not miffed that I can't upgrade. That happens when one is running an old OS. 

I'm miffed because Roon's ham-fisted change management process didn't give me ADVANCE NOTICE of possible problems. (And of course that I blithely said GO without digging deeply into "the footnotes" before doing it.)


----------



## ra990

S Crowther said:


> I don't see the point of it. When I am out I have my DAP which has all the same albums that are in my computer in the house.


For me, the biggest thing is being able to listen to the playlists I have created in Roon on the go. They have a mix of Tidal, Qobuz, and local music - so it wasn't easy for me to recreate outside of the house. I think this was their most requested feature, so there's a lot of happy Roon users.


----------



## Nostoi

Groovy idea, can't get it to work. Maybe the next update....


----------



## jlemaster1957

Great to read all this. I have a smallish library <10k tracks) and use Roon at home mostly for the DSP engine. I can stream my Tidal playlists but when I’m OTG I have a DAP with me that holds the whole library on a SD card, and I can play anything from the library or Tidal using USB Audio app. I have absolutely no use for Roon ARC or 2.0 OTG but don’t want to spoil my at-home listening experience so will monitor this thread and only upgrade to 2.x when it’s clear it’s working well (again) for home use. After all, I’ve shut down operating system and other automatic software upgrades on my Core (a dedicated MacBook Air early 2014) to avoid interruptions in Roon play, so I am happy to patiently watch and wait. Fortunately for me I was on the road when this all happened, so Roon at home on the Core should be unaffected (for now). Makes me think of Areni Agbanian’s song “Patience is more important now…”


----------



## bfreedma

Like any software release, people who need a guarantee of fully operational product in their environment or detailed information on potentialky impactful changes should not be day one installers.

Wait a while if you don’t absolutely need 2.0 and read the forums to get a feel for issues.


----------



## rlw6534

For Android users, one thing to note is that the Roon ARC app requires Android 9 or later.   So no go on the many DAPs that are on Oreo or earlier.


----------



## Whazzzup

antipodes audio and iPhone iPad all 2.0 and arc, no issues. no difference in sq i could tell.


----------



## Whazzzup

So playing arc from my iPhone to my Sony xg500. So iTunes has more competition, except if your not on the network.


----------



## bearFNF (Sep 21, 2022)

I would head over to the Roon forum and read the FAQs on 2.0 and ARC. There are some warnings about older MACs and PCs running older OSes.



DougD said:


> Well, I'm EFFING PSSD about 2.0.
> 
> Upgrade to 2.0, it said.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you saw this:
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-1-8-2-0-migration-faq-16-9-2022

edit: They are swamped with support issues now so expect delays...


----------



## bfreedma

bfreedma said:


> First downside of 2.0 for me is the lack of an iPad native app.  The iPhone app works, but only in portrait mode so not ideal and not as easy to use on an iPad as a native app would be,
> 
> Roon states a native iPad app will be available in the future..



Updates are now available for the native IOS apps (iphone and ipad) that work with a 2.0 core.


----------



## Steve Wilcox

The update and install process has been incredibly quick and easy for me.  

Is there a way to bring up all the albums I own in Arc?  I generally stream from Qobuz and only have a few of my own albums downloaded to plug gaps in the Qobuz catalogue.  I'd like to download some music for offline listening and music from Qobuz can't be downloaded so it would be very helpful to see a list of albums that are available for download.


----------



## Whazzzup

I beleive roon arc is a shared network remote on iPhones and iPads and such. So it’s playing your download from the roon core, not the phone per se?


----------



## bearFNF (Sep 21, 2022)

Steve Wilcox said:


> The update and install process has been incredibly quick and easy for me.
> 
> Is there a way to bring up all the albums I own in Arc?  I generally stream from Qobuz and only have a few of my own albums downloaded to plug gaps in the Qobuz catalogue.  I'd like to download some music for offline listening and music from Qobuz can't be downloaded so it would be very helpful to see a list of albums that are available for download.


What I did was made a tag for all my local files using my PC and regular roon remote (using focus to isolate all local files by storage location)







and then on my phone in ARC I filtered by the tag in the album list






Hope that helps.


----------



## rkw

bearFNF said:


> I would head over to the Roon forum and read the FAQs on 2.0 and ARC. There are some warnings about older MACs and PCs running older OSes.
> Not sure if you saw this:
> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-1-8-2-0-migration-faq-16-9-2022


The update went fine for me, but...
I didn't know that the 2.0 FAQ existed. Was there a reference to it during the update process? All I remember was opening Roon and seeing something along the lines of "Roon 2.0 is here! Click to install".

I've been a software developer for a long time and I see this as a poorly executed rollout. The installer doesn't inform users about what will happen and risks. The installation process should start by checking the versions of customer devices and automatically pausing if it detects a potential problem. Roon also never seems to do staged rollouts (releasing to only a portion of customers at a time), which gives you a chance to watch for unforeseen problems and pause or stop the rollout to mitigate damage. It bit them badly when they did a release that was corrupting the databases of some customers. In this case, they would have learned that some customer systems were being made unusable and they could have done something as simple as directing customers to read the FAQ before installing.


----------



## bearFNF

I think they only posted some FAQs at time of release.
But there were also some FAQs only accessible to those that were involved with the early access.
I agree some of the info could have been better communicated as to the drawbacks.

They did do a form of "staged roll out" with several early access phases that I am aware of.
It has been going on for a several months (at least that is how long I have been involved with it).
I know there were more involved with the early testing phases that happened quite a while ago, also. 
There were a few hiccups but they worked through them. 
By the number of posts I saw during the testing phase I was involved with, they had quite a few people testing for them from the Roon forums.
They were pretty active trying to correct the issues.
But as you know (as a software developer) you can't address every configuration or situation.


----------



## Whazzzup

Smooth as silk for me.


----------



## cj3209 (Sep 22, 2022)

Well, duh...I feel pretty stupid.  I was excited to upgrade to Roon 2.0.  Downloaded it and replaced my 1.8 on my Mac Mini and then...BOOM.

My old Mac Mini is incompatible with 2.0 and I can't switch back to 1.8.  Uggg...

UPDATE:
Ok, I installed 1.8 Legacy Core and it works (I had to install legacy 1.8 on my Roon Remote).

But I did purchace a Nucleus w/2GB...


----------



## rkw

cj3209 said:


> Well, duh...I feel pretty stupid.  I was excited to upgrade to Roon 2.0.  Downloaded it and replaced my 1.8 on my Mac Mini and then...BOOM.
> 
> My old Mac Mini is incompatible with 2.0 and I can't switch back to 1.8.  Uggg...


I put the blame on Roon. The software should not install itself onto an incompatible device.

See if this can put you back on 1.8:
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en...ration-faq-16-9-2022#How_do_I_downgrade_to_18


----------



## cj3209

rkw said:


> I put the blame on Roon. The software should not install itself onto an incompatible device.
> 
> See if this can put you back on 1.8:
> https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en...ration-faq-16-9-2022#How_do_I_downgrade_to_18


Yup, I got 1.8 Legacy installed.  All is good.

Thanks!


----------



## czalarenta (Sep 23, 2022)

I recently had a really interesting experience with the Roon community forums that has really soured me on the company.  I signed up to voice my displeasure at the new online-only requirement for basic service use, but I found that all of my posts were getting deleted, despite being well within TOS.  What's really spicy is that my posts were getting deleted by the COO of Roon who admitted to making that decision, and now my account is restricted.

He's also taken to locking votes on the feature request.  There's no way to actually call out what is going on there without getting banned or deleted.  All the while, the same guy is claiming that very few people are bothered at all!

There are plenty of posts on there of people confused why Roon turned into an always-online service in order to enable ARC.  If you tell these customers the simple fact that Plex has been able to do local network playback as well as streaming on-the-go for years, your comment WILL get flagged or you will get banned.

EDIT: If you try to help people by suggesting they use Plex or a free uPNP-based solution for a local solution, your account will get flagged for "trolling, griefing, and axe-grinding."


----------



## ra990

Plex is the Roon for movies, at least for me. They've nailed the local and on-the-go solution and have offered that for years now. Roon is just now catching up with that.


----------



## czalarenta (Sep 23, 2022)

ra990 said:


> Plex is the Roon for movies, at least for me. They've nailed the local and on-the-go solution and have offered that for years now. Roon is just now catching up with that.


Totally agree! 

I thought Roon was well on that path as well, until they removed the ability to play back files on your local network if the internet is down.  Plex now has a significant advantage to me as a result of that, and I want Roon to do better, but they really don't want to hear it.  A big shame, because I really liked Roon, but you can't go around shooting the messenger like this.


----------



## bfreedma

czalarenta said:


> Totally agree!
> 
> I thought Roon was well on that path as well, until they removed the ability to play back files on your local network if the internet is down.  Plex now has a significant advantage to me as a result of that, and I want Roon to do better, but they really don't want to hear it.  A big shame, because I really liked Roon, but you can't go around shooting the messenger like this.



Is your internet connection down frequently?  I understand the ability to use Roon is lost when it happens, but if if connectivity loss is a problem, your ISP should address that.


----------



## Whazzzup

ISP is down? Throw in power outage as well. Armageddon won’t be good for audio


----------



## czalarenta (Sep 24, 2022)

bfreedma said:


> Is your internet connection down frequently?  I understand the ability to use Roon is lost when it happens, but if if connectivity loss is a problem, your ISP should address that.


My internet is up nearly constantly, but that is no excuse for axing basic functionality of a file server, which is to play back files on a local network.  Roon used to work just fine as a local file server even if internet is down for up to 30 days, but with Roon 2.0, if your internet (or Roon's servers) go down at all, nothing will work. 

Effectively, Roon has added always-online DRM to every single piece of music that I own.  I find that unacceptable, especially when other cheaper competing services respect my music ownership. 

Roon is a luxury, not a necessity, and they are charging a steep price.  For that price, I expect Roon to be the best across the board.  If I'm choosing to make a platform the backbone of my listening experience, why would I choose one that is fragile (Roon) over one like Plex, which can be guaranteed to play my entire music library 24/7 if my local network is up, regardless of whatever is going on with the outside internet?  For $120 a year, this isn't something I should have to worry about at all!

Roon tried to sell this to people with the lie that always-online is necessary for ARC playback, but for years, Plex has let you stream your own files outside the home while being resilient enough to play back files locally if the internet is down.  What's really crazy is if you try to tell people this on their forum, you will get your posts deleted immediately and your account silenced.  Pointing out basic facts about their competition when customers are asking for solutions is considered "trolling" and "toxic," their words.


----------



## rkw (Sep 24, 2022)

bfreedma said:


> Is your internet connection down frequently?  I understand the ability to use Roon is lost when it happens, but if if connectivity loss is a problem, your ISP should address that.


You're blaming the ISP for being unable to play music you have at home? It's like having a CD player or LP turntable that becomes disabled when the internet goes down. Roon has become caught up with navel-gazing and forgotten that its core function is to play music.


----------



## bearFNF

rkw said:


> ...*navel-gazing..*.


LOL, had to look that up.

It is a little concerning that you need to "authenticate" every time you start Roon now. 
Just tested it and Roon keeps playing when I disconnect the ethernet cable to the internet (not sure for how long), however, if you try to start Roon once the internet is down, it does not connect. I know for some that use Roon at their second home or, for one I know, at their cabin with no internet this is a show stopper.


----------



## rkw

bearFNF said:


> Just tested it and Roon keeps playing when I disconnect the ethernet cable to the internet (not sure for how long)


People on the Roon community forum have been trying it and got various times after disconnection (one of them stayed running 4 hours). Danny posted this:
_This may be the 4th time I’ve said it: Zero minutes. You may find it to be longer, but different things will break at different and unpredictable times. You should not rely on 2.0 working without internet access. Use 1.8 Legacy if you need offline access._​


----------



## cj3209

cj3209 said:


> Well, duh...I feel pretty stupid.  I was excited to upgrade to Roon 2.0.  Downloaded it and replaced my 1.8 on my Mac Mini and then...BOOM.
> 
> My old Mac Mini is incompatible with 2.0 and I can't switch back to 1.8.  Uggg...
> 
> ...


Well, this makes me laugh...I get a brand new 2 GB Roon Nucleus and when I try to add music, I get the 'FULL' message.  I think Roon didn't install Roon Core properly in my Nucleus:


----------



## bearFNF (Sep 24, 2022)

cj3209 said:


> Well, this makes me laugh...I get a brand new 2 GB Roon Nucleus and when I try to add music, I get the 'FULL' message.  I think Roon didn't install Roon Core properly in my Nucleus:


Looks to me like they installed Roon on the wrong drive. The storage drive says 128GB and the Os drive says 1844 GB. Did you order a 2TB drive in your Ncleus? You said 2GB in your post....


----------



## cj3209

bearFNF said:


> Looks to me like they installed Roon on the wrong drive. The storage drive says 128GB and the Os drive says 1844 GB. Did you order a 2TB drive in your Ncleus? You said 2GB in your post....


Yah, I meant 2 TB.  I guess Roon was so busy with getting out 2.0 that they rushed installing Roon Core properly...just makes me laugh.


----------



## bfreedma

czalarenta said:


> My internet is up nearly constantly, but that is no excuse for axing basic functionality of a file server, which is to play back files on a local network.  Roon used to work just fine as a local file server even if internet is down for up to 30 days, but with Roon 2.0, if your internet (or Roon's servers) go down at all, nothing will work.
> 
> Effectively, Roon has added always-online DRM to every single piece of music that I own.  I find that unacceptable, especially when other cheaper competing services respect my music ownership.
> 
> ...



Looks like Roon isn’t for you and Plex is.  Nothing wrong with that.  Software companies often deprecate features that a small percentage of their user base want in order to introduce features the majority of their users want.

I don’t agree that the requirement for internet connectivity is DRM.  You can still play your local files with other software, so they aren’t doing anything to restrict access to your data.

Consistently talking about the superiority of another platform is going to get you banned or moderated in many company operate/advertising forums.  Try making repeated negative comments on this site about a vendor who pays for advertising here and the same will happen.


----------



## bfreedma (Sep 25, 2022)

rkw said:


> You're blaming the ISP for being unable to play music you have at home? It's like having a CD player or LP turntable that becomes disabled when the internet goes down. Roon has become caught up with navel-gazing and forgotten that its core function is to play music.



I blame the ISP when the ISP’s internet connection goes down.

There’s a lot of drama here over something unlikely to actually happen.  No one likes to features deprecated, but in the real world, developers have to focus on what the user community and market wants.  Roon’s subscribers number one requested feature, by far, was mobile access.


----------



## flashdong

I hope that roonlab can solve the problem of connecting to the roon core through the Internet without a public network ip.


----------



## Whazzzup

Wow in 2015 a promo of 399 lifetime which I signed for. Now 899.  Any rate, amortize over a decade still a good deal, 2 decades and great.


----------



## Forsaked

flashdong said:


> I hope that roonlab can solve the problem of connecting to the roon core through the Internet without a public network ip.


Problem?
Either you use Roon ARC with a mobile device, since there is no ARC support in the desktop client yet.
But this requires you to open up an port on your firewall.
Or you use Tailscale/ZeroTier to do the same without opening a port and be able to use the desktop client.
I don't think that Roon gonna support STUN natively soon, so you need to rely on the mentioned methodes.


----------



## bearFNF (Nov 26, 2022)

It's not a "problem" per se, but a design change they made intentionally to accommodate ARC and to address some issues they had with database (music metadata, discovery) stability.  Not entirely sure about the second one but I read something from Danny, from Roon, talking about it. It was not clear to me what the issues were exactly but he was indicating that it would not be changing. Some of the post complaining about it and his responses have since been removed and it got pretty heated.


----------



## The1Signature

I try roon for 3 month from now on - black friday deal.

however, i do have the wm1z and going to buy the wm1zm2, use qobuz and tidal, but listen 95% of the time my flac files on my microsd card.

i also have the naim mu so gen2 which is roon ready but also has qobuz integrated. so i already get the best sound quality there anyway.

i try to understand whether i miss something which would give me tremendous advantage when having roon with my setup.

any suggetions?


----------



## keenerz

ended up picking up a lifetime license trying to get in before they raise the prices. I use it so much so very much worth it for me.


----------



## pippen99

I have had Roon for a year.  I enjoy the reviews and the suggestions for new music.  I got it originally for the DSP function because of my LCD-5.  My core is running on an aging Dell desktop(8 years old).  I basically use it for occasional surfing and my printer is hooked up to it.  I run Roon Remote on a last generation Ipad.  The search function is really slow and hit and miss.  I don't know if is the Ipad or the Dell or that is just the way Roon search is.  Certainly sooner rather than later the Dell is going to die.  My question is should I get a Nucleus or simply replace the desktop.  My library amounts to only 250 GB mainly ALAC and Flac.  I stream via Tidal and only access my library a couple times a week for obscure albums that Tidal does not have.  I read that the Nucleus has no SQ purpose.  To complicate my decision both my streamer/dacs have their own apps to control streaming and access my library(Lumin and dCS).  Those are the only two zones I utilize.

I see this as my choices.
1) Get another desktop
2) Get a Nucleus
3) Ditch Roon and use the native apps for my streamers
4) An alternative that I don't see and you guys recommend.

If I did purchase a Nucleus why would I buy a SSD from Roon?  Their SSD choices seem overpriced when I can get a smaller SSD for much lower price from Best Buy or somewhere else.  The only advantage I see is that it would come preinstalled which is a consideration for an idiot like me.

What do you think?


----------



## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> I have had Roon for a year.  I enjoy the reviews and the suggestions for new music.  I got it originally for the DSP function because of my LCD-5.  My core is running on an aging Dell desktop(8 years old).  I basically use it for occasional surfing and my printer is hooked up to it.  I run Roon Remote on a last generation Ipad.  The search function is really slow and hit and miss.  I don't know if is the Ipad or the Dell or that is just the way Roon search is.  Certainly sooner rather than later the Dell is going to die.  My question is should I get a Nucleus or simply replace the desktop.  My library amounts to only 250 GB mainly ALAC and Flac.  I stream via Tidal and only access my library a couple times a week for obscure albums that Tidal does not have.  I read that the Nucleus has no SQ purpose.  To complicate my decision both my streamer/dacs have their own apps to control streaming and access my library(Lumin and dCS).  Those are the only two zones I utilize.
> 
> I see this as my choices.
> 1) Get another desktop
> ...


5th option is to get NUC and put Rock on it, get the benefits of the nucleus at much lower cost. I did this and it solves the, I need to boot my computer to play music issue. It runs headless and can be placed next to your network gear. I put a drive in mine so it's an all in one thing. Or you could point is at a NAS if you have one to get your music to it.

Or you could use this as an excuse to "get a newer more powerful computer",


----------



## pippen99

The desktop sits with the network gear.  Since there is no SQ advantage to the nucleus and I am running only two zones I am leaning towards new computer.  The advantage to the Nucleus and Nucleus + is the ability to handle very large libraries and multiples of zones so I read(?).


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 6, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> The desktop sits with the network gear.  Since there is no SQ advantage to the nucleus and I am running only two zones I am leaning towards new computer.  The advantage to the Nucleus and Nucleus + is the ability to handle very large libraries and multiples of zones so I read(?).


I think the desktop would handle a big library just fine. The only benefit I can see to Nucleus or NUC/Rock as far as library size  goes is that it is dedicated resources vs on a desktop that also needs to handle all the overhead of a full blown OS. In other words it does not need to be as powerful as a full blown desktop, but is really also depends on how much DSP you are going to be using, also.

The other nice thing about a Nucleus or a NUC/Rock is the low maintenance OS, you would only need to let Roon do the updating in a Nucleus or NUC/Rock (kinda set it and forget it). Whereas with a desktop you have to worry about updating not only Roon but Windows (or MAC if that's your flavor OS) also and any of the issues that Windows causes after updated software, drivers, or network/firewall changes, etc..


----------



## pippen99

I have been on Amazon looking at NUC.  Would I buy one without an os and the Rock download would become the os?


----------



## joseph69

pippen99 said:


> I have been on Amazon looking at NUC.  Would I buy one without an os and the Rock download would become the os?


Just curious as to why you wouldn't directly from Roon? Also, I know Roon had some deals going around Thanksgiving, so maybe they're still available if you ask?


----------



## pippen99

All I saw was Nucleus(+) at regular price.  I can get a new computer and run Roon Core for lot less and have computer functionality.  Trying to figur e out what advantage to Nucleus.


----------



## bfreedma

pippen99 said:


> The desktop sits with the network gear.  Since there is no SQ advantage to the nucleus and I am running only two zones I am leaning towards new computer.  The advantage to the Nucleus and Nucleus + is the ability to handle very large libraries and multiples of zones so I read(?).



The Nucleus is a nice solution if you want something plug and play, but you’re paying an enormous premium for a single use system.  Whether that’s worth it varies mostly on how comfortable (or not) someone is with basic system setup.

With the Roon config you describe, any moderately specced I3 or I5 based NUC should be more than enough compute power unless you’re running a ton of DSP or HQplayer - for those, an I7 based system would be better.

I run a headless NUC running Windows as everything is already setup in my network to manage that OS, but if it was a new setup, a ROCK would be the way to go.


----------



## rkw (Dec 7, 2022)

joseph69 said:


> Just curious as to why you wouldn't directly from Roon? Also, I know Roon had some deals going around Thanksgiving, so maybe they're still available if you ask?


I put together my NUC/Roon ROCK for under $350 (barebones NUC + memory + 2x SSD), and it's possible for even less money with a used NUC from eBay that already has memory and storage. It requires a similar skill level to putting together a PC and installing Windows. With Nucleus, you pay a big premium for a prebuilt, plug-and-play box.


----------



## kumar402

bfreedma said:


> The Nucleus is a nice solution if you want something plug and play, but you’re paying an enormous premium for a single use system.  Whether that’s worth it varies mostly on how comfortable (or not) someone is with basic system setup.
> 
> With the Roon config you describe, any moderately specced I3 or I5 based NUC should be more than enough compute power unless you’re running a ton of DSP or HQplayer - for those, an I7 based system would be better.
> 
> I run a headless NUC running Windows as everything is already setup in my network to manage that OS, but if it was a new setup, a ROCK would be the way to go.


ROCK OS doesn’t support HQPlayer to run natively so no point to bump up processor if the plan is to simply run ROCK OS. I5 is more then enough for Roon ROCK with large library


----------



## rlw6534

I have been running Roon Core on my Synology NAS for a couple of years now and it works great.  Plus you can use all of the other NAS features for multimedia and storage (Plex, UPnP and many others).


----------



## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> I have been on Amazon looking at NUC.  Would I buy one without an os and the Rock download would become the os?


Yes, you would buy one without OS, ROCK would be the OS.

@rlw6534: As far as running Roon on a NAS it comes down to what NAS, how much DSP, how big the library, what other things are running, and network config. as to whether the NAS will run well as a ROON core.  A lot more variables to consider.


----------



## rlw6534 (Dec 7, 2022)

bearFNF said:


> Yes, you would buy one without OS, ROCK would be the OS.
> 
> @rlw6534: As far as running Roon on a NAS it comes down to what NAS, how much DSP, how big the library, what other things are running, and network config. as to whether the NAS will run well as a ROON core.  A lot more variables to consider.



FYI, my DS918+ has never had any issues running Roon Core including MQA unfolds, transcoding DSF, DSP, etc.   The core is always at least 10X on processing speed.   I'm sure every device has it's limits, but I have never had a problem.   It's actually a pretty elegant solution IMO and you get a lot of extra functionality.  It has replaced my NUC media server and my Desktop PC use cases (as a server, but not gaming of course)...


----------



## Forsaked

kumar402 said:


> ROCK OS doesn’t support HQPlayer to run natively so no point to bump up processor if the plan is to simply run ROCK OS. I5 is more then enough for Roon ROCK with large library


Just virtualize ROCK and HQPlayer Embedded on the same host.


----------



## Daniel Johnston

rlw6534 said:


> I have been running Roon Core on my Synology NAS for a couple of years now and it works great.  Plus you can use all of the other NAS features for multimedia and storage (Plex, UPnP and many others).


^This

I'm using a QNAP NAS for the same reason. 

It's actually the configuration Roon suggested before they released the Nucleus. 

Flawless so far. I don't have a massive library and usually use the Roon radio feature with my library and Qobuz.


----------



## pippen99 (Dec 11, 2022)

Going to give NUC Rock a try since I really do not need the desktop if it dies.  I found a NUC8-I5 with 16Gb RAM and 240gb SSD preloaded new in the box for only $285.  I have to get an Ethernet switch but that is inexpensive.  Now we will see how easy it is to set this all up.  Wish me luck!


----------



## Audio Addict

Has anyone tried Euphony Audio's Stylus v4.0?

I have heard the sound is significantly better but it doesn't compete in management of the music.  It has roughly the same monthly cost as Roon currently.


----------



## Forsaked

pippen99 said:


> Going to give NUC Rock a try since I really do not need the desktop if it dies.  I found a NUC8-I5 with 16Gb RAM and 240gb SSD preloaded new in the box for only $285.  I have to get an Ethernet switch but that is inexpensive.  Now we will see how easy it is to set this all up.  Wish me luck!


Good luck, installing ROCK!


----------



## bearFNF (Dec 12, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> Going to give NUC Rock a try since I really do not need the desktop if it dies.  I found a NUC8-I5 with 16Gb RAM and 240gb SSD preloaded new in the box for only $285.  I have to get an Ethernet switch but that is inexpensive.  Now we will see how easy it is to set this all up.  Wish me luck!


Don't forget that you can only put the OS on the M.2 SSD drive. You will need a second drive, a NAS, or an external USB drive for music storage. Does the NUC you bought support installing a second drive? A "Tall" case vs a "Short" case.


----------



## pippen99 (Dec 12, 2022)

I can't forget what I did not know in the first place.  Here is the link to the Intel information sheet for the model I purchased.  https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...7/intel-nuc-kit-nuc8i5bek/specifications.html

The way I read this there is an internal M.2 SSD drive installed.
The seller states the computer store that sold the unit preinstalled 16 GB RAM and a Sata3 240Gb hard drive.
The unit also has a MicroSD slot which I can use easily since my library is only 145GB.

Am I Good?


----------



## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> I can't forget what I did not know in the first place.  Here is the link to the Intel information sheet for the model I purchased.  https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...7/intel-nuc-kit-nuc8i5bek/specifications.html
> 
> The way I read this there is an internal M.2 SSD drive installed.
> The seller states the computer store that sold the unit preinstalled 16 GB RAM and a Sata3 240Gb hard drive.
> ...


Sorry, did not mean come imply anything, I should have said "be aware" instead of "don't forget" as a heads-up to ensure you knew.
It also looks like the unit you purchased support sonly one internal drive, BTW, so is likely a "short" case.
So an external Drive, USB thumb drive, or NAS (or shared network drive) would be needed for music storage.

If the microSD card shows up as a USB drive (which I believe it should) you should be able to use it for music storage. I do not have experience with this particular arrangement. I would think this would work. It should show up in the "settings/storage" "add folder" list.
If it doesn't, then you could try a USB card reader plugged into one of the USB ports.


----------



## pippen99

bearFNF said:


> It also looks like the unit you purchased support sonly one internal drive, BTW, so is likely a "short" case.
> So an external Drive, USB thumb drive, or NAS (or shared network drive) would be needed for music storage.


I am it seems little confused here.  I looked up Windows 11 and it seems to require depending on the answer 32/64 GB of space.  The unit I am receiving has a 240GB drive.  My library is only 145 GB and unlikely to grow.  As I am told Rock is much simpler than Windows why would I need one of the above mentioned extra drives for music storage(it is a short case).


----------



## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> I am it seems little confused here.  I looked up Windows 11 and it seems to require depending on the answer 32/64 GB of space.  The unit I am receiving has a 240GB drive.  My library is only 145 GB and unlikely to grow.  As I am told Rock is much simpler than Windows why would I need one of the above mentioned extra drives for music storage(it is a short case).


Because ROCK does not allow for storing anything but the OS on the drive it is installed on.
Read this:
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en...#So_what_is_Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit_ROCK_then

In the above link you will see this:
"*The SSD can not be used for music content.*
If you want music content in this device, use another disk (see below about "internal storage")."

This is why they say using larger disk to install it would be a waste of a large disk and using a small disk is the best option.
The OS is not set-up to recognize music stored on the OS drive only on separate storage locations. mostly due to the way it back-ups the DB and "watches" storage locations for music.


----------



## pippen99

It appears I did not do enough research before purchasing this particular unit. Hopefully the SD card will work for me.  If not I will get an external drive.  Thanks for your help.  Your explanations have been very helpful.  When it comes time to set this up do you make house calls?


----------



## rkw

pippen99 said:


> Hopefully the SD card will work for me. If not I will get an external drive.


Unfortunately Roon ROCK doesn't support the SD card slot at all.


----------



## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> It appears I did not do enough research before purchasing this particular unit. Hopefully the SD card will work for me.  If not I will get an external drive.  Thanks for your help.  Your explanations have been very helpful.  When it comes time to set this up do you make house calls?


Not to worry, if like @rkw says the SD card is not recognized you can buy a 512 Gb thumb drive for about $40, SanDisk 512GB Ultra USB 3.0 Flash Drive - SDCZ48-512G-G46.
SanDisk thumb drive on Amazon

I don't make house calls, but as @TheRH said ask questions here or over in the Roon Forums (or his group on facepunch, err facebook, I don't have a facebook account anymore for reasons) and there are plenty of helpful people to get you up and running.

There are also some very good YouTube videos of people doing the full setup of NUC/ROCK. The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel - Roon Rock part 1


----------



## pippen99

The original purpose was to get Roon off my aging and deteriorating Dell desktop.  This Rock thing has become rather messy and very technical.  According to the seller since this unit is new in the box I have the right to a free download of Windows.  I am wondering if I would be just as well off downloading Windows and using the Nuc to run only Roon Core.  Since I would only use it to run Roon Core I would delete all other apps and such that clutter up Windows and slow response times.  If I did this would I be able to then store my library on the SSD?  Is this possible and would Rock have advantages over Roon Core I am not aware of?


----------



## bfreedma

pippen99 said:


> The original purpose was to get Roon off my aging and deteriorating Dell desktop.  This Rock thing has become rather messy and very technical.  According to the seller since this unit is new in the box I have the right to a free download of Windows.  I am wondering if I would be just as well off downloading Windows and using the Nuc to run only Roon Core.  Since I would only use it to run Roon Core I would delete all other apps and such that clutter up Windows and slow response times.  If I did this would I be able to then store my library on the SSD?  Is this possible and would Rock have advantages over Roon Core I am not aware of?



You may be able to download Windows "for free", but using long term it will require a paid license that will provide a software key.

That aside, I use Windows on a NUC as a core and it's very stable.  No need to delete other apps and no recent NUC will have issues with slow response time or any other performance issues running Roon core.   You should be able to store music on the same SSD as your Windows install.


----------



## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> The original purpose was to get Roon off my aging and deteriorating Dell desktop.  This Rock thing has become rather messy and very technical.  According to the seller since this unit is new in the box I have the right to a free download of Windows.  I am wondering if I would be just as well off downloading Windows and using the Nuc to run only Roon Core.  Since I would only use it to run Roon Core I would delete all other apps and such that clutter up Windows and slow response times.  If I did this would I be able to then store my library on the SSD?  Is this possible and would Rock have advantages over Roon Core I am not aware of?


There are pluses and minuses to this approach.
The plusses would be you would not have to buy anything else and you could use the SSD to store the music. You could also use the unit for other apps (plex, web browsing if you hook it up to a TV/monitor, etc.). Also, you already have experience with this setup so it should be easy to transition.
The minuses are that you have to deal with Windows updates, firewall, viruses, trojans, etc. in additions to keeping drivers, apps, and Roon updated. And the mentioned need for another drive to store the music. 
A big consideration in my mind is that Rock is pretty seamless, IME, and it just about set it and forget it. Rock/NUC is a dedicated device that does one thing. 
There may be other tradeoffs, some say SQ is better on Rock........ YMMV

It's not really that much more trouble to set-up than Windows, I would even argue that it is easier to set-up overall than windows. Especially if you follow the guides that are out there.
It's my belief that you would have a more stable core and better overall experience with ROCK as that is what I have experienced with mine. I did a similar thing as what you are looking at doing, started out with Roon core on a windows machine and then moved it to Rock/NUC and have not regretted it.


----------



## Mr BubbaHyde

pippen99 said:


> The original purpose was to get Roon off my aging and deteriorating Dell desktop.  This Rock thing has become rather messy and very technical.  According to the seller since this unit is new in the box I have the right to a free download of Windows.  I am wondering if I would be just as well off downloading Windows and using the Nuc to run only Roon Core.  Since I would only use it to run Roon Core I would delete all other apps and such that clutter up Windows and slow response times.  If I did this would I be able to then store my library on the SSD?  Is this possible and would Rock have advantages over Roon Core I am not aware of?


My purpose was the same as yours, at the time I was running my Roon "core" on a 2009 iMac!

Do not let the process deter you, I knew "Zero" about how to do this in the beginning, and it's now been almost 2 years, and I probably wouldn't be able to do the "process" again without reading every step. Take your time and gather all the help and resources you can; in no time will you have your NUC running Rock, and trust me, you will be happy you did it!

Building, and installing Roon Rock was the best investment I ever made, and has made my Roon experience all the better. I no longer worry about resources or slow "Cores" just a little NUC sitting up on a shelf, that barely ever even needs a restart or a second look for that matter!

Here's to your success!

Cheers!!


----------



## pippen99

My goal here was not to have the expense of replacing the desktop or purchasing a Nucleus which seems vastly overpriced.  I bought this unit because it was new and inexpensive and turns out to have only one drive slot(My Bad).  My library is not really important to me.  I only access it a half a dozen times a month for albums not on Tidal.
So here are my alternatives in order of what I can get away with(I know bad attitude)
1) SD card(already told this won't work but will do more research on that)
2) USB card reader(already have) It is still using SD card.  Will this work?
3) Thumb drive.  Idea from above. A little bit more expensive.  I have already had to buy an Ethernet Switch because router is full.
4) External drive.  Probably the best solution but again more expense.
5) New idea.  Can Rock and Roon Core coexist on the same LAN?  Can Roon Remote give me the choice of which I utilize?  Until I make a decision and/or find out what will actually work and/or the Dell dies I would leave my library where it is and access Roon Core through Roon Remote for the 6 times a month I use the Library.

Or am I just unnecessarily overthinking this?


----------



## Daniel Johnston (Dec 13, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> My goal here was not to have the expense of replacing the desktop or purchasing a Nucleus which seems vastly overpriced.  I bought this unit because it was new and inexpensive and turns out to have only one drive slot(My Bad).  My library is not really important to me.  I only access it a half a dozen times a month for albums not on Tidal.
> So here are my alternatives in order of what I can get away with(I know bad attitude)
> 1) SD card(already told this won't work but will do more research on that)
> 2) USB card reader(already have) It is still using SD card.  Will this work?
> ...


You can have as many cores as you want, but only one can be active at a time. It’s kinda pain to do that on one network as you’ll have multiple cores you’ll have to sync somehow. 

Just get windows and use Roon core if you don’t want to screw around with ROCK. I’ve used that method for several years.


----------



## kumar402

If your NUC is preinstalled with Windows OS and you dont want any hassle, then just install Roon in it and use it as Core. There is no harm in doing so. During Christmas break if you feel bored or have some time on hand then you can install ROCK OS and decide.


----------



## rkw

pippen99 said:


> This Rock thing has become rather messy and very technical.


To put this in perspective, I set up my Rock in about an hour, which included opening the NUC and installing the memory and SSD cards. I do have a technical background which I'm sure made it easier for me.

I got Roon two years ago with their Black Friday special and installed it on my Mac laptop. After a year, I got tired of needing to have my laptop and Roon running just to listen to music. I looked into NUC/Rock and have been happy with the results. It was very much set up once and forget about it.


----------



## pippen99

I received my Ethernet switch yesterday.  I picked up a cheap thumb drive today.  The Nuc arrives tomorrow.  I watched the videos by Hans Beekhuyzen and I think what made me most nervous was the Bios update process.  I briefly looked at the Rock installation procedure and did not see a mention of this process.  Mu unit was manufactured in 05/2020.  Is this necessary and did you do this?


----------



## pippen99

I am committed to this as I was looking at my Roon account and saw it was the last day to commit to a lifetime subscription within the 30 day change period.  I went ahead and now I will not have to endure more price changes.  So far Roon is worth it.


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## kumar402

rkw said:


> To put this in perspective, I set up my Rock in about an hour, which included opening the NUC and installing the memory and SSD cards. I do have a technical background which I'm sure made it easier for me.
> 
> I got Roon two years ago with their Black Friday special and installed it on my Mac laptop. After a year, I got tired of needing to have my laptop and Roon running just to listen to music. I looked into NUC/Rock and have been happy with the results. It was very much set up once and forget about it.


That's the exact reason why I setup ROCK on NUC


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## rkw

pippen99 said:


> I think what made me most nervous was the Bios update process. I briefly looked at the Rock installation procedure and did not see a mention of this process.



https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/rock-install-guide#2_Prepare_your_NUCs_BIOS
I've highlighted the word "here" which is a hotlink and easy to miss while reading. They really should have inserted those instructions inline into main steps.


> To update the BIOS on your NUC, follow the instructions *here*.


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## bearFNF (Dec 15, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> I received my Ethernet switch yesterday.  I picked up a cheap thumb drive today.  The Nuc arrives tomorrow.  I watched the videos by Hans Beekhuyzen and I think what made me most nervous was the Bios update process.  I briefly looked at the Rock installation procedure and did not see a mention of this process.  Mu unit was manufactured in 05/2020.  Is this necessary and did you do this?


Here is Intel's instructions for the bios update (choose the method you want from the table, typically the USB flash drive version with a new NUC):
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005636/intel-nuc.html
And here is a YouTube video for the update process:


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## pippen99

Waiting for delivery.  I have only the one flash drive.  Will it be best to wipe the flash drive after BIOS update before flashing the Rock image?


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## bearFNF (Dec 15, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> Waiting for delivery.  I have only the one flash drive.  Will it be best to wipe the flash drive after BIOS update before flashing the Rock image?


Yes, just reformat it. You will need to format it in Fat32 for the bios update anyway.
It is not entirely necessary, but doesn't hurt to be cautious.
Then reformat it in NTFS after Rock is installed to use it for music storage.


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## pippen99

Trying to get ready for this.  Just found another complication.  My desktop monitor which I was going to use to do this does not have an HDMI input.  Now I will have to use my laptop monitor(if that is possible) or haul a 40" tv from the bedroom.  I was going to use the mouse from the desktop for navigation but if I have to use if for following instructions that idea is gone and the mouse for the laptop is USB-C.   guess I can do instruction following on the Ipad but not my favorite way for browsing.


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## pippen99

I lied about the laptop mouse.  Pretty sure I can use it.


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## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> Trying to get ready for this.  Just found another complication.  My desktop monitor which I was going to use to do this does not have an HDMI input.  Now I will have to use my laptop monitor(if that is possible) or haul a 40" tv from the bedroom.  I was going to use the mouse from the desktop for navigation but if I have to use if for following instructions that idea is gone and the mouse for the laptop is USB-C.   guess I can do instruction following on the Ipad but not my favorite way for browsing.


Ack, you are having an adventure all right. Is there ethernet in the bedroom? might just do the install in there?


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## pippen99

I think I will be ok on that front if I can use the laptop as a monitor. I will use the desktop for flashing and following instructions.  Looks like USPS has let me down and delivery will be tomorrow.  One more day for anxiety to build.


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## rlw6534

pippen99 said:


> Trying to get ready for this.  Just found another complication.  My desktop monitor which I was going to use to do this does not have an HDMI input.  Now I will have to use my laptop monitor(if that is possible) or haul a 40" tv from the bedroom.  I was going to use the mouse from the desktop for navigation but if I have to use if for following instructions that idea is gone and the mouse for the laptop is USB-C.   guess I can do instruction following on the Ipad but not my favorite way for browsing.



DVI?

https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Basics-Adapter-Cable-1-Pack/dp/B014I8UQJY?th=1


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## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> I think I will be ok on that front if I can use the laptop as a monitor. I will use the desktop for flashing and following instructions.  Looks like USPS has let me down and delivery will be tomorrow.  One more day for anxiety to build.


I don't think you will be able to use the laptop as the monitor. You usually need software to make that happen and the NUC won't have any software that can be used to make it happen.


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## kumar402

pippen99 said:


> Trying to get ready for this.  Just found another complication.  My desktop monitor which I was going to use to do this does not have an HDMI input.  Now I will have to use my laptop monitor(if that is possible) or haul a 40" tv from the bedroom.  I was going to use the mouse from the desktop for navigation but if I have to use if for following instructions that idea is gone and the mouse for the laptop is USB-C.   guess I can do instruction following on the Ipad but not my favorite way for browsing.


For time like this 
Active 4K HDMI to Displayport 1.2... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q3VDXN8?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


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## pippen99

bearFNF said:


> I don't think you will be able to use the laptop as the monitor. You usually need software to make that happen and the NUC won't have any software that can be used to make it happen.


Yeah, I am getting that.  The desktop monitor does have a DVI port.  I would have to order that adapter and wait for delivery.  I will go with the TV option.  Does anybody have a technical objection to using the tv other than it is a pain in the ass?


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## rlw6534

pippen99 said:


> Yeah, I am getting that.  The desktop monitor does have a DVI port.  I would have to order that adapter and wait for delivery.  I will go with the TV option.  Does anybody have a technical objection to using the tv other than it is a pain in the ass?



Note that some NUCs have an oddball mini-hdmi socket rather than standard HDMI...


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## pippen99

The unit is Nuc8i5bek with HDMI2.0a.  Pretty sure this is a standard socket.  I can get the DVI adapter by Saturday with Prime.  I am just tired of getting nickel and dimed to death with this thing.


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## pippen99

I received the Nuc.  All seems in order.  I did not open it to verify the drive and memory but the seller posted actual photos and the less I mess with it the better.  It does have a standard HDMI socket.  I have ordered the DVI adapter and it will arrive tomorrow.  I can foresee circumstance where I might want to hook up a monitor again and moving a 40" tv around would be too hard.  I downloaded the Bios update and watched the video (Thanks @bearFNF). 
Now a question.  The flash drive came formatted ExFAt32 by default. It also has files on it.
BE0090.bio(this is the BIOS update)
Install Sandisk Hardware   dmg  540KB
Install Sandisk Hardware   application  691 KB
pdf Sandisk Software        Microsoft Edge P...  294 KB

Should I attempt to delete these three files before attempting the Bios update.  I am fairly certain the file referring to Edge is not necessary but not sure about the other two.

Tomorrow will be the big day.  Thanks for your help.  I may need more tomorrow.


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## bearFNF

pippen99 said:


> I received the Nuc.  All seems in order.  I did not open it to verify the drive and memory but the seller posted actual photos and the less I mess with it the better.  It does have a standard HDMI socket.  I have ordered the DVI adapter and it will arrive tomorrow.  I can foresee circumstance where I might want to hook up a monitor again and moving a 40" tv around would be too hard.  I downloaded the Bios update and watched the video (Thanks @bearFNF).
> Now a question.  The flash drive came formatted ExFAt32 by default. It also has files on it.
> BE0090.bio(this is the BIOS update)
> Install Sandisk Hardware   dmg  540KB
> ...


I always reformat the thumb drives I get so never have used the software that comes with them. They look to be Sandisks security and disk management programs??


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## TooFrank

Hi guys, Don't know whether this is the right place to ask: I am running Roon from an 2019 iMac => SOtM sMS-200 Ultra Neo => iDSD Pro => iDSD ICAN,
Considering buying a Nucleus and have 2 questions: Will it make the SOtM streamer redundant? and will there be any other noticeable improvements (I know Nucleus is expensive, but this is the option I am exploring)...
Thanks


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## Daniel Johnston

TooFrank said:


> Hi guys, Don't know whether this is the right place to ask: I am running Roon from an 2019 iMac => SOtM sMS-200 Ultra Neo => iDSD Pro => iDSD ICAN,
> Considering buying a Nucleus and have 2 questions: Will it make the SOtM streamer redundant? and will there be any other noticeable improvements (I know Nucleus is expensive, but this is the option I am exploring)...
> Thanks


What are you using as Roon endpoints?
Are you using the Nucleus to replace the iMac as your core?

Yes the SotM will be redundant unless you are using it as an endpoint. I'm sure people will tell you that the Nucleus will sound better than the iMac, but its strength is having your Roon core on a separate, dedicated unit. It likely is overpriced for what it actually does, but if you have the money, go for it. It's a one stop solution for Roon and doesn't need any DIY. 

I went the NAS route so I could also have Plex, a cloud sever, etc... You could also go NUC to have a cheaper alternative to Nucleus. However, both require some DIY. It's not terribly difficult though.


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## TooFrank

Daniel Johnston said:


> What are you using as Roon endpoints?
> Are you using the Nucleus to replace the iMac as your core?
> 
> Yes the SotM will be redundant unless you are using it as an endpoint. I'm sure people will tell you that the Nucleus will sound better than the iMac, but its strength is having your Roon core on a separate, dedicated unit. It likely is overpriced for what it actually does, but if you have the money, go for it. It's a one stop solution for Roon and doesn't need any DIY.
> ...


Thanks - I use my SOtM as endpoint and the Nucleus is to replace the iMac. Is very happy with SOtM. Other endpoint is Sonos Port...


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## pippen99

Got everything up and running this weekend.  Everything went fairly smoothly with just one glitch.  After the BIOS update I initially forgot to change BIOS settings to allow Rock to download.  After I figured that out everything went well.  I got my convolution filter migrated and my PEQ filters rebuilt(just the two I was using).  I got my library on a USB thumb drive set up.  The Nuc would not recognize the SD card so that was the way I had to go.

Roon Remote seems to be more responsive using Rock.  I don't believe there is any sonic advantage to using Rock but probably still too early to tell.  I was not really expecting an improvement and now could not probably tell any way.  My second Tak 274B in three years fried itself last night and I am on my backup(USAF 596).

Thank you all who helped me through this.  I very much appreciate it.


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## Raidersfan8118

Hey I have tidal and was wondering if roon works on iPad/iphone to eq?


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## rlw6534

Raidersfan8118 said:


> Hey I have tidal and was wondering if roon works on iPad/iphone to eq?



Yes, any EQ or DSP is done at the core rather than the endpoint, so it works on everything that Roon supports.


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## pippen99

You cannot install a convolution filter from an Ipad.  You can use it but not install it.


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## Raidersfan8118 (Dec 20, 2022)

pippen99 said:


> You cannot install a convolution filter from an Ipad.  You can use it but not install it.


Ok thanks not into it enough to know what a convolution filter is


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## pippen99

One of the DSP alternatives.  The Audeze presets on Roon are convolution filters.


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## Raidersfan8118

pippen99 said:


> One of the DSP alternatives.  The Audeze presets on Roon are convolution filters.


I’m thinking about getting an lcd 5 and trying an eq to bring up treble. Rest of it I could probably live with it stock.


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## ThanatosVI (Wednesday at 4:21 AM)

I recently read about convolution filters and that piqued my interest.

Can everything be used during a Roon Trial or are there features locked behind the licensed version, no matter what?

Do the convolution filters require certain Hardware minimums for the Core?


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## rkw

ThanatosVI said:


> Can everything be used during a Roon Trial or are there features locked behind the licensed version, no matter what?


A Roon trial is fully functional. No features are blocked.



ThanatosVI said:


> Do the convolution filters require certain Hardware minimums for the Core?


The best place to look or ask for information is the Roon community forum. Here is a thread on the topic:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-much-computer-power-is-needed/207816


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## ThanatosVI

rkw said:


> A Roon trial is fully functional. No features are blocked.
> 
> 
> The best place to look or ask for information is the Roon community forum. Here is a thread on the topic:
> https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-much-computer-power-is-needed/207816


Thank you


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