# Goign for my first awesome speakers and amp setup for pc need suggestions



## vincedea

hello everyone,  I going to do my first awesome speaker and amp setup for my pc.  But I am not sure what I should be getting.  I was thinking of these speakers:
   
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=3332167&SID=u00000687
   
  Today is the last day but I read these usually go on sale quite often.
   
   
  Do you have other suggestions with other speakers, type of amp, and also a sub woofer.  In the end I would like an awesome 2.1 system for computer and or my laptop. 
   
   
  I mainly use my computer for music,games, and movies.
   
  Budget wise I dont want to go crazy in spending lots of money on this, so I would like to keep the budget at around $200-$400 or so.  The subwoofer can come later but would like to get the speakers, amp, and whatever wires I might need.
   
   
  Thank you for your help and pelase let me know your suggestions.  I am pretty excited about this


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## TrollDragon

Check this article out...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57439115-47/build-your-own-desktop-stereo-for-under-$70/
   
   
  I have this Corsair system and I would *NOT* recommend it to anyone.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836852001
   
  This though is one fine system here and is what the Corsair should have been...
  http://www.edifier.us.com/shop-edifier?CategoryID=25&List=1&catpageindex=2&Level=a&ProductID=30


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> hello everyone,  I going to do my first awesome speaker and amp setup for my pc.  But I am not sure what I should be getting.  I was thinking of these speakers:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=3332167&SID=u00000687
> Today is the last day but I read these usually go on sale quite often.
> Do you have other suggestions with other speakers, type of amp, and also a sub woofer.  In the end I would like an awesome 2.1 system for computer and or my laptop.
> ...


 
  Parts-Express can put together a fairly decent 2.1 for under $200
  TrollDragon has a link to a review about the speakers and amplifier.
  Here is a link to the sub-woofers.
  http://www.parts-express.com/cat/powered-subwoofers/95
   
  Here is a link to a USB DAC Hifimediy Sabre ($52), should improve the audio quality.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/140847495065?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## vincedea

trolldragon said:


> Check this article out...
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57439115-47/build-your-own-desktop-stereo-for-under-$70/
> 
> 
> ...




The speaker system is pretty dam expensive. What would be the difference in that and me building my own?


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## vincedea

purpleangel said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What brand should i look into for my speakers? 

For the sub i was thinking the energy s10.3 but its a bit expensive.


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## concrete

I have Dayton Audio speakers and they are great and cheap. Look up the reviews on their B652 speakers that cost $45 per pair.


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## TrollDragon

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> The speaker system is pretty dam expensive. What would be the difference in that and me building my own?


 
  Not really that expensive for an all in one package...
   
  Cheap speakers are just that, cheap speakers... they will only take you so far and only sound so good. The little amp in the review only puts out 20 Watts so it has a good volume for a bedroom sized room at a moderate level or sitting in front of them at your desk.
   
  The Audioengine A5+ are considered one of the best starting point speakers for desktop use but now your looking at $400 for a nice pair of 50 Watt desktop's that will fill a room with excellent sound. They are self powered so no amp is required & you can add a sub down the road.
   
  Also like PurpleAngel said you'll need a DAC as well depending on your current source, and once you start adding up all the little pieces (Speakers, Sub, Amp, DAC etc...) you'll get to $400 very quickly.
   
  IMHO the old adage of you get what you pay for holds true...
   
  You have an exciting journey ahead of you and much research is the key to an excellent sounding system.


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## vincedea

Quote: 





trolldragon said:


> Not really that expensive for an all in one package...
> 
> Cheap speakers are just that, cheap speakers... they will only take you so far and only sound so good. The little amp in the review only puts out 20 Watts so it has a good volume for a bedroom sized room at a moderate level or sitting in front of them at your desk.
> 
> ...


 

 I was thinking about getting the Audioengines A5 but then i decided i wanted to do something of my own type of build with an amp and everything.  i figure it would be fun and can always upgrade on different parts of the setup.
   
  As of now I think i only want to get speakers and an amp.  Then the sub later on.  i guess right now I am leaning towards the pioneers that newegg had on sale, but are there better ones to get that would allow me to hold off the sub for a bit?


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## TrollDragon

That is cool too, and a lot of fun too boot!
   
  Here is a review on the Pioneers http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs41-lr-loudspeaker from 2011 but you have to take all reviews with a grain of salt.
   
  I don't do speakers as I live in an apartment (Except for the Corsair that I have to keep turned down...) so others in the know of bookshelf speakers might have better suggestions.


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## classicalguy

I've been following the Pioneer SP-BS41s since they came out.  I was using a nuforce ikon dac/pre/amp with a pair of Infinity P143 speakers, and it sounded fine, but I was never happy with it.  When the BS41s dropped to $85 delivered on closeout I jumped on them.  I have to say that I'm incredibly impressed with the sound of these speakers.  Especially the three dimensional imaging.  I feel like I'm in the mix with these speakers.  Also, the highs are very smooth - you can listen for hours without fatigue.  I find myself listening to much more orchestral music because they just sound so right.  They are a very significant improvement over my old Infinity speakers.  Really lovely sound.  
   
  I have never heard the BS21s, which have a significantly smaller mid/woofer and cabinet.  I've heard they have a similar house sound, but don't go as low.  If you have a multi-channel amp that will blend with a sub, and a sub, the BS21s may be fine.  But if you're going solo with a T-Amp or 2 channel amp, I'd recommend spending the extra for the 41s when they go on sale.  
   
  I have them sitting on a desk, and have really been enjoying them.  
   
  There are a lot of people around here recommending building your own speakers.  I built speakers when I was younger, but they were no match for the kind of careful design that goes into a professionally designed speaker like this.  There is more involved than sticking drivers in a box.  Unless you really know what you're doing, I would not recommend building your own speakers.  Also, If your looking for unnatural sounding speakers that impress for 15 minutes (overly bright), these are not for you.  These are best for someone that really loves accurate sounding speakers.  Acoustic instruments and voices sound very natural.  Given the compromises inherent in this price range, Pioneer really got things right with this speaker.
   
  By the way, I've heard the Daytons, and they are ok for $45.  However, they are not in the same league as the Pioneers.  Maybe it's not a fair comparison because the Pioneers were retailing for $150-200, but they are getting close in price when on sale for $85.  I guess that's technically double the price, but it's a far better speaker in every way.  I suspect the BS21s on sale for $50 are a lot better than the Daytons too, but won't have the lows because of the smaller woofer.


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## TrollDragon

My bad, that link was a review of the 41's not 21's... 
The post above by classicalguy should sway you to spend a little more on the better version, if that is the type of sound your looking for in a speaker. 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


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## vincedea

Ok guys i have made a decision. I think i will go with the B21s since they are a bit smaller and cheaper. I will get a sub later on, so what type of amp should i get and what other equipment will i need to make everythign sound awesome from playing games, music, and movies.  this will be plugged into my computer


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## TrollDragon

I'd go with the Topping TP60 amp looks just right for those speakers.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-326


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## classicalguy

The Topping looks really nice, but not cheap. This $23 amp would be adequate, if you've got a decent signal. 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=310-300

If you're going to get a sub later, you should probably get a receiver with sub support. I'm a fan of digital amps, but there is no denying the convenience of a receiver or integrated amp with bass management and preamp switching. 

I'm looking forward to your review of the smaller pioneers. They are a very good deal when on sale for $50 a pair. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> Ok guys i have made a decision. I think i will go with the B21s since they are a bit smaller and cheaper. I will get a sub later on, so what type of amp should i get and what other equipment will i need to make everything sound awesome from playing games, music, and movies.  This will be plugged into my computer


 
  Computer audio is not designed for a 2.1 speaker/sub-woofer (3-channel) setup, computer audio only comes with 2, 4, 6, 8-channel setting.
  Usually the computer is set for 2-channel audio and the external "Computer audio" 2.1 setup separates/creatives the sub-woofer channel out of the 2-channel audio signal.
  Usually with a "Computer Audio 2.1" everything is built into the sub-woofer box, it's lower cost just to have one (cheap) amplifier built into the sub-woofer, to power the sub and both speakers.
   
  Receivers are designed to separate out a sub-woofer signal from a 2-channel signal.
  So if you get a receiver to go with whatever pair of speakers you get, you can then in the future, add just about any sub-woofer you like.
  Just have to plug it into the "sub-woofer" out on the back of the receiver.
   
  I think you should just keep checking your local Craigslist ADs for a used receiver and 2.1 speaker setup.
  Some sellers will sometimes sell off some nice stuff for a low price.


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## vincedea

I was looking at amps online and i came across the Audioengine and the Emotiva minixa 100
   
  http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/a100
   
  http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-N22#.UJIU4Ia5U8U
   
  these are cheaper than the topping and im not sure what the real differenecs are between those 2.  I really want an amp that will allow me to add a sub woofer later on in the future and it seems the N22 makes it alot easier not sure how to do it on the emotiva one though.
   
  with looks only i really like the emotiva one and apparently it goes on sale sometimes for about $175.
   
  what do you guys think?


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## TrollDragon

Comparing the two I'd go with the mini-X a-100, it has good power to drive those speakers nicely and supposedly has cleaner sound than the N22. The only problem is you'll have to get a powered sub that you control the volume of separately as the a-100 has a fixed line out.
  The N22 has a variable line out that will change the sub volume as well.
   
  The general consensus seems to be, if you want an easy to setup 2.1 system go with the N22, if you want a nice clean 2.0 system go with the a-100.


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## cel4145

I agree.  The Emotiva will be a better amp. It's even 4 ohm stable. Buy the N22 for its miniaturization and built in headphone amp, not its power amp quality. 
   
  For a little bit more if have room for the footprint, the HK 3390 is very nice. Harman Audio is selling refurbs on Ebay for $199, or you can get a new one from Amazon for about $240. 80watt, high current amplifier. Subwoofer line out. Remote Control. FM radio even. I use one for a desktop setup with Energy V5.1 speakers and a Mirage Prestige S10 sub. Works great.


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## vincedea

That Harmon AMP is way too big to put on top of a desk lol, hell the emotiva one I think might be a little long to fit on my desk. 
   
  So in terms of better sound, power, and quality I should go with the emotiva.  I dont really use headphones, so I guess I wouldnt really take advantage of the headphone AMP on the N22.
   
  pairing a sub to the emotiva AMP shouldnt really be a bi hassle correct? or would it be a bitch to really do?


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## cel4145

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> That Harmon AMP is way too big to put on top of a desk lol, hell the emotiva one I think might be a little long to fit on my desk.


 
   
  Definitely. The HK is a full size receiver. Mine is on a separate piece of furniture next to my workstation setup in my home office. If you don't have a separate piece of furniture or lots of space, I would go with the Emotiva. 
   
  For a sub, you would either
   
  (a) Split the analog out from your computer and run it to both the Emotiva amp and the sub. You'll need to buy a sub that left and right RCA inputs (many do). Calibrate the speakers and sub to each other using the individual gain/volume controls on the sub and the Emotiva amp, and then use your computer volume to raise and lower the volume. Some DACs (for example, I think the Music Streamer II) don't allow for using using Windows main volume control to raise and lower the volume, only individual applications. So check your analog output and make sure you can control it that way if you want to go this route. 
   
  (b) Buy a sub that has speaker level inputs and outputs (can be a little less common than subs with left/right RCA inputs mentioned above, depending on what budget range you are buying in). Then connect the Emotiva to the computer, run the speaker wires to the sub, and then connect the sub to the speakers. With this method, you calibrate the speaker with the sub by adjusting just the gain/volume on the back of the sub. Then you have the option of either controlling the volume from your computer or using the volume control on the Emotiva amp.


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## classicalguy

I think you're going to have an impossible time getting your sub to blend with your speakers unless your amp has real bass management. If you can't set a crossover point between your speakers and your sub, I doubt you'll be able to get it working right. That's why I got the bigger bs41 speakers and went without a sub. 

A full size av receiver would solve the sub problem, but it's big. Too bad no one seems to make a tripath amp with proper bass management for a sub. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## cel4145

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> I think you're going to have an impossible time getting your sub to blend with your speakers unless your amp has real bass management. If you can't set a crossover point between your speakers and your sub, I doubt you'll be able to get it working right. That's why I got the bigger bs41 speakers and went without a sub.
> A full size av receiver would solve the sub problem, but it's big. Too bad no one seems to make a tripath amp with proper bass management for a sub.
> Sent from my Nexus 7


 
   
  Certainly, bass management offers flexibility for even better optimizing the setup. Bass management is nicer because often a speaker/sub set of benefits more from having that option to set a higher crossover point.  But it's not a problem to blend the sub and the speakers without it. You just have to set the sub crossover to where the speakers roll off in bass response.


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## vincedea

cel4145 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




By any chance can you link me a few subs that would work with option B? I think i would go with that option.


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## cel4145

I don't know what your budget it is for a sub, but keep in mind with a sub you are buying a very big speaker (expensive to ship) with an amp.  Difficult to get something fairly good for cheap.
   
  These all budget subs that have free shipping. The PSW505 and BIC F12 are popular subs among the HT crowd. If you are a basshead and want awesome room filling bass, these will pound. If you don't need that much bass and want something a little smaller, you might look at the Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 or the Velodyne VX-11. For nearfield listening sitting at your computer, I'm sure these would provide plenty of output. 
   
  If you want a small 8" sub that has very good SQ (good for computer use in a small room), the Outlaw Audio M8 is a good one (see this CNET review). Outlaw has b-stock at a reasonable price. Outlaw Audio is an Internet direct subwoofer manufacturer, and they make great stuff (I have their LFM-1 EX sub). Last year, Outlaw put it on sale during Cyber Monday for $175. They often have sales then or the first few weeks of December. Could be worth waiting to see if you are interested.


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## vincedea

OK after much thought. I think I will spend a bit more money on the speakers and get the sub later down the road. 
   
  the only speakers that i have looked at have only been the pioneer sp-bs21.  But I reda reviews that there isnt that much bass and that I will probably need a subwoofer. 
   
  are there any speakers that are about the same size as those pioneer that will give out a bit more bass?  Now I am not a basshead, so i wouldnt want anything that over powers the highs and mids I suppose.  I prefer more clarity, clean and nice sounding speakers. I also listen to all types of music.
   
   
  what would be your recommendations?


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## cel4145

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> are there any speakers that are about the same size as those pioneer that will give out a bit more bass?  Now I am not a basshead, so i wouldnt want anything that over powers the highs and mids I suppose.  I prefer more clarity, clean and nice sounding speakers. I also listen to all types of music.


 
   
  Not likely. It's difficult for 4" drivers to produce much bass. If you want more bass, probably have to jump up in size to speakers with larger drivers, at least 5". Stick with ported speakers as sealed speakers of the same driver size will often even roll off sooner in bass response. 
   
  Best strategy is probably to get the speakers that will serve your needs with the subwoofer, even though you won't have it for a while.


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## vincedea

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> Not likely. It's difficult for 4" drivers to produce much bass. If you want more bass, probably have to jump up in size to speakers with larger drivers, at least 5". Stick with ported speakers as sealed speakers of the same driver size will often even roll off sooner in bass response.
> 
> Best strategy is probably to get the speakers that will serve your needs with the subwoofer, even though you won't have it for a while.


 
   
  i dont mind going up in size to a 5 in woofer than adding a sub with those size speakers.


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## classicalguy

I think the bass response on the Pioneer bs41 is very good for music for a bookshelf speaker, and you get something that, in my opinion, no sub stat can provide - - great integration. I have a bookshelf sub system in my bedroom, and even with a receiver with bass management, you just don't get the integration you get with a single well designed speaker. Even though bass is not very directional, there is just something off on the timing. I highly recommend the 41s. They just sound lovely, and nothing can touch them at the price when they go on sale for $85. Now you don't get home theater slam in your chest bass, but articulation of cello, string bass and even organ is excellent. And it opens up using 20 watt class D amps to power them. 

As for the comment about bass reflex v acoustic suspension, I think acoustic suspension produces better sound but is less efficient, which is why it's going extinct except at the very high end. You'd be hard pressed to find an acoustic suspension budget speaker, with the exception of something like a super zero which is basically not usable without a sub. 

So, my very strong recommendation would be the bs41s when they next go on sale. I think you'll be shocked at just how good they sound. I say this as someone who has listened to a lot of speakers over the years and owns many pairs of budget bookshelves, including superzeros, infinity p142, b&w 302, infinity betas, kef chorals 3s, boston acoustics something or others, and have heard lots of others. 

One there is also a small floorstander in the series with 3 midwoofers which must sound great, and there have been good deals on them too, but it's not a bookshelf sized speaker. 

If you're looking for home theater surround sound bass slam, then yes you'll need to sub, but for listening to music on a desk, the pioneer bs41 is a winner. And, no, I have no financial interest in Pioneer. Just a very happy owner. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## cel4145

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> I think the bass response on the Pioneer bs41 is very good for music for a bookshelf speaker


 
   
  +1
   
  Get the BS41s. Newegg has them for $85 at the moment. So you'd only be spending a little more than the BS21s. You could spend twice as much and not get a better speaker.


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## classicalguy

A couple more thoughts after reading the questions again. You won't find a speaker the same size as the bs 21s with significantly better bass because it's physics. Low bass requires moving a lot of air, and that takes power and size. If you want really powerful low bass you need a big driver with a lot of wattage behind it. But the bs41s paint a very realistic picture of a piano, including the low bass notes, something my smaller infinitys could not do. You can't impress your friends by shaking the walls, but like listening to good headphones the fundamental bass notes in music are faithfully presented. They don't match my B&W 801s in the bass dept, but that's physics. 

I'm listening to the Abegg trio playing Beethoven's first piano trio, op 1, as I type this, and it's lovely. Goodluck. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## vincedea

Hey guys after much thought and talk with my fiancee, I wont be able to the emotiva mini amp anymore.  so will the lepai amp be ok for the bs41 or the bs21?  which speaker will work better with that amp?


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## TrollDragon

*BOOM... Denied as the hammer falls...* (Just Kidding!)
   
  I know the WAF (wife approval factor) can be a biggie, if you absolutely dying for some sound I'd match the Lepai up with the BS21's...
  What I'd recomend you do is wait and stash a little away till you can get the better speakers and amp, you'll be happier in the long run with the better sound and performance IMHO.
   
  Good Luck on the journey and lets us know how you make out!


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## cel4145

Either will be fine with that amp. Undoubtedly, the Emotiva is better. But maybe you an use the Lepai for a year or so, then upgrade.


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## classicalguy

Lepai is cheaply built, but should sound good, and should be about the same with either speaker. I prefer the amp/usb dac combos because the sound coming out of most computers is bad, but for the price you can't beat it. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## cel4145

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> Lepai is cheaply built, but should sound good . . .


 
   
  +1
   
  I used to own one (bought it out of curiosity) but gave it away to a friend who need it. The Lepai with those speakers the OP is considering will definitely sound better than any desktop multimedia speakers for the same price.


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## vincedea

Alright guys i purchased the bs21 for $45 on newegg and ordered the lepai amp. Hopefully the amp doesnt give me any issues and everything sounds sexy.


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## cel4145

Come back and post and let us know.


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## classicalguy

Well for $45 shipped, I bought a pair too. I'll use them with a sub upstairs in place of the much larger and pricier Infinity Betas, and will be able to do a comparison with the bigger bs41s in my office.


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## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> Well for $45 shipped, I bought a pair too. I'll use them with a sub upstairs in place of the much larger and pricier Infinity Betas, and will be able to do a comparison with the bigger bs41s in my office.


 
  Infinity Betas, I do like my Beta 40s, 20s and C360.


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## vincedea

The weirdest thing happened to my bank card and my order got canceled. I doubled checked my bank if i had money and i did. The Amp is on the way but now i may have to go with the bs41 lol. Dam banks making me spend more money.


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## TrollDragon

Bastiches! 

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2


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## classicalguy

I suspect bs41 is a lot better without a sub. With a sub and receiver with bass management may be the same (I'm hoping). Will know more when they arrive. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## cel4145

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> I suspect bs41 is a lot better without a sub.


 
   
  I'm confused. Why would it be better without a sub? The BS41 doesn't have the low end range of a set of tower speakers, so they could benefit from the extra bass extension.


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## classicalguy

I didn't say the bs41s were better than the tower version, I said that I suspect they are a lot better than the bs 21s without a sub because they are significantly larger and go significantly lower. There are certain fundamental frequencies that are common in music, and other frequencies that are less common or inaudible. Cello and string bass sound very good on the 41s. Will they sound right on the 21s?

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## cel4145

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> I didn't say the bs41s were better than the tower version, I said that I suspect they are a lot better than the bs 21s without a sub because they are significantly larger and go significantly lower.


 
   
  Yeah. I didn't get that. Sorry.


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## classicalguy

No problem, I wasn't very clear.  Sorry you missed out on the $45 deal.  Hope it comes back, or a better deal on the 41s.  Really wondering how that Lepai amp will do with the speakers.  High end sound for $100 is pretty unbelieveable.


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## vincedea

classicalguy said:


> No problem, I wasn't very clear. Sorry you missed out on the $45 deal. Hope it comes back, or a better deal on the 41s. Really wondering how that Lepai amp will do with the speakers. High end sound for $100 is pretty unbelieveable.




So i got the amp already and it came with a vonage ac power adapter. Most ghetto i have ever seen but it works. Now i just need for those speakers to go back on sale.

Btw have you gotten your set yet?


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## classicalguy

No, bs21s have not arrived yet. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## vincedea

I was looking around the internet and on ebay i found some energy take 2.2 mini speakers.  here is the link
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/330827103108?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619
   
  any idea if these speakers are good and what should my max be if I were to bid on them?
   
  also I found these on craigslist
   
  http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/3377898496.html
   
  between these 2 which would be better?
   
  or should i continue to wait for the pioneers to go back on sale?


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## cel4145

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> I was looking around the internet and on ebay i found some energy take 2.2 mini speakers.  here is the link
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/330827103108?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ask over on AVS in the Energy Owners Thread. Very active (over 42,000 posts). They can tell you.


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## classicalguy

The Pioneer BS21s arrived today (paid $45 delivered), and I compared them with the BS41 (paid $80 delivered).  The 21s are not THAT much smaller - about an inch shorter, and identical shape and build quality, with an identical tweeter and a smaller woofer/mid.  Very similar sound.  Highs and mids are the same - I noticed no difference at all.  I played some music with a lot of bass - a really nice piano recording with a lot of low notes, and some cello music.  The 41s, being bigger and having a larger mid/woofer, sounded more resonant on low notes.  But the 21s played the notes with a nice clear taught sound, just lacked the very lowest resonance on the bass notes.  I was actually surprised - I was expecting a lot smaller and less capable speaker, but the 21s are very nice.  I really like the metal grills.  Both have high quality binding posts and you can tell they have real proper crossovers and very good quality components.  Tweeters just sing, without being the slightest bit bright or harsh.
   
  They are both a steal at these sale prices, and sound great on my desktop.  I'm using a good quality Nuforce Ikon usb/dac/pre/amp (rated at 20w/ch), and they play plenty loud for me - not going to rock the foundation of the house, and might not be adequate in a very large room, but great for desktop (I generally listen with the volume knob between 11:00 and 1:00 - never more than that).  Volume output was very similar from both speakers - the bigger speakers did not seem noticably less efficient.
   
  Next step is to try the little 21s in my bedroom system - a much larger room with a more powerful receiver and subwoofer (replacing much larger and more expensive Infinity Beta speakers).  Why am I replacing the Betas - because they just don't have the sweet treble that these pioneers have.  They are a little to anticeptic sounding.  But maybe I'll change my mind when hearing the pioneers in the same system.  I'll report back on that.
   
  Pictures didn't turn out very good, but you can see the size comparison.
   
   
   
   
   

   
  I'll report back.


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## vincedea

Dam I think im just going to wait.  The bs 41 look huge compared tot he bs21s lol.


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## cel4145

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> The Pioneer BS21s arrived today (paid $45 delivered), and I compared them with the BS41 (paid $80 delivered).  The 21s are not THAT much smaller - about an inch shorter, and identical shape and build quality, with an identical tweeter and a smaller woofer/mid.  Very similar sound.  Highs and mids are the same - I noticed no difference at all.  I played some music with a lot of bass - a really nice piano recording with a lot of low notes, and some cello music.  The 41s, being bigger and having a larger mid/woofer, sounded more resonant on low notes.  But the 21s played the notes with a nice clear taught sound, just lacked the very lowest resonance on the bass notes.  I was actually surprised - I was expecting a lot smaller and less capable speaker, but the 21s are very nice.  . .


 
   
  This would explain why with the new versions, Pioneer released an updated BS22, but not a BS42. Probably not much advantage with the larger driver there either.


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## classicalguy

The 41s received great reviews in the audiophile press, but the big retailers like best buy didn't carry them. They were pretty hard to find, while the 21s were readily available. So I think it had more to do with retailer demand than acoustic merit. 

We all know that most people who buy low priced speakers don't care.Junk like home theater in a box are big sellers, and $100 for speakers sounds expensive when compared to a bunch of cheap tweeters. I can't tell you how many friends have speakers facing in wrong directions, or bookshelves sitting on the floor. You can't listen to low priced speakers properly set up in the stores. The loudest cheapest speakers sell best. So I wouldn't give much credence to sales figures. 



Sent from my Nexus 7


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## classicalguy

Vincedea, you should definitely wait, and make sure your credit card works! I love the little extra bass of the 41s,but think you'll love either. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## classicalguy

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA
   
  The BS41's are on sale again!!


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## vincedea

Quote: 





classicalguy said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA
> 
> The BS41's are on sale again!!


 
   
   
  lol yeah i ordered them


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## classicalguy

Cool. Looking forward to your review. 

I hooked the little ones up to receiver with sub in a big room and like them just as much as on my desk. That sweet tweeter turns a bit harsh at really loud levels, but that's to be expected in any speaker under very high prices. I wouldn't recommend them for an outdoor rock concert. But at all reasonable levels they sound great. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## vincedea

change of small plans.  After looking around on the internet i stumbled across the nht super zero speakers for $77 per speaker.  So i went ahead and canceled my newegg ordered and spent a bit more on some speakers. 
   
  hopefully i choose excellent speakers, as the reviews would indicate.


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## cel4145

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> change of small plans.  After looking around on the internet i stumbled across the nht super zero speakers for $77 per speaker.  So i went ahead and canceled my newegg ordered and spent a bit more on some speakers.
> 
> hopefully i choose excellent speakers, as the reviews would indicate.


 
   
  The Super Zeros are very good. They will need a sub, though. Did you pick out your sub yet?


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## vincedea

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> The Super Zeros are very good. They will need a sub, though. Did you pick out your sub yet?


 
   
  No I have not yet.  But i did pick out my amp which will be the Emotiva mini amp.  Not sure how I would hook up a sub to the amp though.  One of the sales person said I would be able to hook up a sub using the RCA outputs but it would be an optimal solution as I wouldnt be able to control the volume of the sub.  The other solution would be to find a sub that has high level input and output and do it that way.   Would there be any difference in going those routes for a sub? or would it be better for me to get a different amp that has line in for the sub?
   
  One sub I was looking at is the martin logan dynamo 300 found it on sale for $135 on audio advisor.
   
  As for the speakers should i stick with the nht then? and get a sub sometime down the road? or would the xrm allow me to hold off on getting a sub right away?
  
  what do you think?


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## classicalguy

Man, you sure change your mind a lot!
   
  I have a pair of super zeros that I don't use anymore (sitting in a closet).  They are terrible without a sub, and just ok with one.  Very directional, and cold.  Speaker placement is extremely important.  
   
  In my opinion, the pioneers are a lot better - much more musical.  The super zeros are much smaller, and they are heavy little suckers.  They have a nice glossy finish.  But sound wise, I'm far far more impressed with the BS-41s in every respect.  Anyway, I hope they work out for you.  Lots of people thought highly of the super zeros with a sub.  You may have gotten the newer version, which I have not heard.  Without a sub, the super zeros will sound very tinny.  There is no bass at all - ZERO.  
   
  If you hook up a sub through your line outs, it will certainly be sub-optimal (like idiotic).  You need to control the volume of the speakers and the sub, and better yet control the crossover with proper bass management.  Using the high level speaker outputs into a sub with high-level inputs/outputs  will work, but it completely ruins the sound.  You really want to use the low level inputs and outputs.  At a minimum, you need pre-amp out, into the RCA inputs of the sub, and use the Sub's RCA outputs into the amp and out to the speakers.  Normally, that means separate pre and amp.  You also need a sub with RCA ins and outs - many subs are made to work with a surround sound receiver and not with 2 channel equipment.  If you have an integrated amp without a sub output or at least variable output it will never be right.  I've seen people use the headphone output, but that is amplified and not good to use.  These 2 channel Class D amps just don't work right with subs.  They are great for two channel audio, but you either need expensive separates or a receiver with bass management to connect a sub properly.


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## cel4145

From earlier in your thread
   
  Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> For a sub, you would either
> 
> (a) Split the analog out from your computer and run it to both the Emotiva amp and the sub. You'll need to buy a sub that left and right RCA inputs (many do). Calibrate the speakers and sub to each other using the individual gain/volume controls on the sub and the Emotiva amp, and then use your computer volume to raise and lower the volume. Some DACs (for example, I think the Music Streamer II) don't allow for using using Windows main volume control to raise and lower the volume, only individual applications. So check your analog output and make sure you can control it that way if you want to go this route.
> 
> (b) Buy a sub that has speaker level inputs and outputs (can be a little less common than subs with left/right RCA inputs mentioned above, depending on what budget range you are buying in). Then connect the Emotiva to the computer, run the speaker wires to the sub, and then connect the sub to the speakers. With this method, you calibrate the speaker with the sub by adjusting just the gain/volume on the back of the sub. Then you have the option of either controlling the volume from your computer or using the volume control on the Emotiva amp.


 
   
  Now I don't know what XRM is, but the Super Zeros are already -3db down at 85hz according to NHT's specs. They definitely have to have a sub unless you don't care much about mid-bass.
   
  As for the Martin Logan Dynamo 300, it's $130 on Amazon.  I don't think that the NHT Super Zeros are a better speaker than the Pioneers, so I would put the money towards a better sub instead. Plus, because the Super Zeros require a sub that can produce good mid-bass, the need for a better sub is even more important with them than the Pioneers.


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## vincedea

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> From earlier in your thread
> 
> 
> Now I don't know what XRM is, but the Super Zeros are already -3db down at 85hz according to NHT's specs. They definitely have to have a sub unless you don't care much about mid-bass.
> ...


 

 Hi  guys, just received my nht speakers, now i am waiting on my emotiva amp to come in.  I still have the lapi amp do you guys think it would be able to power them?


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## classicalguy

Sure it will power them. Just don't play it so loud that the amp clips. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## vincedea

hmm inspecting them, it seems to me that this glossy finish can get scuffed pretty easily.  hmm but they do look extremely nice I must say.


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## vincedea

hey guys I forgot to ask or mention, but I have a creative xtreme gamer sound card. Would it be wise to upgrade my soundcard a creative titanium hd, Asus DX, or Asus STX?


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## vincedea

Hey guys I just purchased the pioneer bs21 speakers since they were on sale for $40 and I was wondering if it is possible to wall mount these speakers?  the speaker itself dont have any wall mount holes or anything like that.  How would I go about wall mounting them on a wall?


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## cel4145

Search this owners thread at AVS. I know that they have discussed it.


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## classicalguy

Vincedea 

Wall mounting not a good idea since they are rear ported. Will you back able to compare them with the super zeros and using the two amps? 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## vincedea

Hey guys I just received my bs21 speakers and What THESE BITCHES ARE ******* BIG. At first ithought they sent me the wrong model or something but What THESE ARE FREAKING HUGE compared to my SZ. I dont know how people use these for desktop speakers LOL. Which I am in a dilinma now, my gf desk is SMALL LOL and I assumed these were goign to be small lol.

Anyways time to compared the speakers lol


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## classicalguy

Yea, szeros are much smaller, although heavy lil suckers for their size. But man do those pioneers sound good. That's why the zeros are sitting in the closet. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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## vincedea

classicalguy said:


> Yea, szeros are much smaller, although heavy lil suckers for their size. But man do those pioneers sound good. That's why the zeros are sitting in the closet.
> Sent from my Nexus 7




Not going to lie these pioneers sound pretty dam good with the Lepai amp. the height doesnt bother me but the width it seems so wide sitting on a computer desk lol. I guess I will just either have the pioneers sitting in my closet or hooked up to the tv. but the pioneer setup would not be a bad HT starter system on teh cheap whenteh sub and center go on sale.


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## trog

vincedea said:


> Not going to lie these pioneers sound pretty dam good with the Lepai amp. the height doesnt bother me but the width it seems so wide sitting on a computer desk lol. I guess I will just either have the pioneers sitting in my closet or hooked up to the tv. but the pioneer setup would not be a bad HT starter system on teh cheap whenteh sub and center go on sale.




Wow your feedback is greatly appreciated as i am a serial T-amp set up guy ever since owning my 1st Lepai TA2020 and having not personally mated those BS21S with it, i was a tad worried about the BS21s being slighly inefficient for the TA2020 but i suppose for PC/near field it ought to do fine


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## cel4145

Quote: 





vincedea said:


> Hey guys I just received my bs21 speakers and What THESE BITCHES ARE ******* BIG. At first ithought they sent me the wrong model or something but What THESE ARE FREAKING HUGE compared to my SZ. I dont know how people use these for desktop speakers LOL. Which I am in a dilinma now, my gf desk is SMALL LOL and I assumed these were goign to be small lol.
> Anyways time to compared the speakers lol


 
   
  LOL
   
  Best to always check speaker dimensions before ordering if placement size is an issue


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## vincedea

Quote: 





cel4145 said:


> LOL
> 
> Best to always check speaker dimensions before ordering if placement size is an issue


 
   
  LOL that picture that classical guy had it looked small, looked about the same size of the SZ.  But man when i got them I LOl'ed then I went What


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## classicalguy

The super zs are really small. The bs-21s are about the same size as most small bookshelves, maybe a mite taller. They are not THAT big. I'm using the bigger 41s on my desk without a problem. I just can't get over how good they sound. 

Sent from my Nexus 7


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