# Audio Grade Fuses



## BIG POPPA

Last year shortly after I got my Darkvoice Figaro I replaced the stock fuse with one from ISOCLEAN POWER. I could tell a slight difference, a level of clarity. The Figaro went up in smoke a few months ago and so I have a few cool parts to salvage from it and one is the Isoclean. OK, a couple weeks ago I got a 336se. Did my normal partswapping and installed the Isoclean. Didn't think nothing of it. I bought a HiFi-Tuning Fuses - Small Gold FAST Blow F by Revolution Power and didn't install the fuse. I wanted to make sure I was familiar with the sound of the amp. Settled on the tubes I'm using at the moment so figured was comfortable with the sound. So today I installed the Hi-Fi Tuning fuse. The sound was completely different from what I was used to. It lost a few DB's. I can turn the the volume knob up a little more than previously. Thinking the Isoclean was completly broken in compared to a brand new fuse. The sound was a little laid back but there was sense of a little more clarity with the guitars and cymbals. Vocals are pushed back a bit. Soundstage seems a tad bit smaller. Never thought that there would be such a difference in two gold plated fuses. Who new? Have to try the Rhodium Plated fuse from Furutech now to see if there is a difference? A cheap can of worms to me. Cheaper than some tubes. See what happens after a week or two. Just giving impressions on something that was unexpected but found interesting to me.


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## alvin sawdust

Interesting findings Poppa.I haven't tried any of the aftermarket fuses,but a couple of months ago i took out the two fuses on my Teac P-700 transport and cleaned them and the fuse holders with caig deoxit.I then treated the holders with walker sst and popped the fuses back in.I was pleasantly surprised with the improvement,the music sounded more muscular.


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## BIG POPPA

Yeah, Caig my stuff too. Big fan of Caig.


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## BIG POPPA

So I put the IsoClean back in today. Man, It is so musical compared to the new Hi-Fi Tuning fuse. It is like comparing the Synergistic Research Tesla Plex Receptacle by Revolution Power and the Oyaide Power Receptacle R-1 20A Beryllium by Revolution Power . I have purchased both of these. The Tesla is the IsoClean and the R1 is the Hi-Fi Tuning. This is the best example I have that makes the most sense.


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## keyid

then jumpering the fuse or wiring without fuse should give the best performance.


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## BIG POPPA

Yeah, but what kind of wire used? Gold plated or Cryo'd
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Everything has a sound signature.


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## NightOwl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keyid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_then jumpering the fuse or wiring without fuse should give the best performance._

 

Absolutely, the less connections the better. But at the risk of blowing up your equipment. It's for the 10% of the population that likes living constantly on the edge.


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## Uncle Erik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *keyid* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_then jumpering the fuse or wiring without fuse should give the best performance._

 

You could also have an electrician wire your amp directly to the box. That would get rid of the plug and socket, too.


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## BIG POPPA

And how would it sound? Would it sound better? Would it make a big enough difference to tell? Could you tweek it to your liking? I'm all about the tweeks. They shape the sound to make it your own.


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## iriverdude

You should get rid of your house fuse boxes as well, and replace the cable from your house to the sub station with 99.999999% OFC. Replace the sub station a Audiophile one. Shut down any radio transmitters in the area as that'll interfere with your equipment.


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## BIG POPPA

And what will help save your gear in a lightning storm besides that million dollar power conditioning and protection you have connected to your gear? A dumb fuse.


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## iriverdude

You thought I was being serious?


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## s1rrah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_A cheap can of worms to me. Cheaper than some tubes. See what happens after a week or two. Just giving impressions on something that was unexpected but found interesting to me._

 

I too noticed a difference when installing the HiFi Tuning fuse ... I mean, over the cheapo that was in my Havana DAC and Stello amp.

 The really crazy thing was that the sound of the DAC changed dramatically when switching the fuse polarity (you know, flipping it around in its receptacle).

 HiFi Tuning say to run it in whatever config one enjoys the most and I finally decided one orientation/polarity suited me more than the other and have run it thusly since.

 Interesting about the isoclean fuse ... I'll have to get one now.

 Thanks for the thoughs.


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## Uncle Erik

You know, you could always rewire your house with Home Depot wire, too. It's the same exact stuff used in certain $16,000 power cords, so it must be of the highest quality. Heck, you could even cryo a couple spools for $20 and slip them into a garden hose to really top it off.


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## NightOwl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Uncle Erik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You know, you could always rewire your house with Home Depot wire, too. It's the same exact stuff used in certain $16,000 power cords, so it must be of the highest quality. Heck, you could even cryo a couple spools for $20 and slip them into a garden hose to really top it off._

 

Now. Now. Although fuses being directional does seem a bit much.


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## REVPOWER

Fuse direction matters. The difference is usually discernable without trying to listen too hard. 

 When inserted the wrong way, the sound will usually be a bit flatter and softer. Imaging not as good. It can still sound OK, just not "right".

 On fuses with directional arrows - you should still experiment. Unless you are a circuit designer or tech, you may not know the true direction of flow in the circuit. Some boards have been known to be marked incorrectly.

 In testing marked fuses here, it's been determined that the fuse manufacturers are marking them correctly for directionality.


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## NightOwl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REVPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fuse direction matters. The difference is usually discernable without trying to listen too hard. 

 When inserted the wrong way, the sound will usually be a bit flatter and softer. Imaging not as good. It can still sound OK, just not "right".

 On fuses with directional arrows - you should still experiment. Unless you are a circuit designer or tech, you may not know the true direction of flow in the circuit. Some boards have been known to be marked incorrectly.

 In testing marked fuses here, it's been determined that the fuse manufacturers are marking them correctly for directionality._

 

All right. I have an open mind. I avoid cable discussions like the plague since they always end up in flame wars.
 Is there a scientific reason for this (a link would be nice since I am curious) or is this strictly for audiophile purposes? I am familiar with Isoclean and Russ Andrews.

 You say you have done some testing. Measurements or listening tests? I'm not trying to dismiss your statement. I just can't even theorise why a fuse would be directional and would like to know more. I'm very familiar with the theories behind the directionality of cables and wire.


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## BIG POPPA

Yes, the fuses are directional. I have a couple and in the process getting another one. They also need to be broken in to bloom in sound. Currently warming up to the Hi-Fi Tuning sound. Switched the fuses again a few days ago. It doesn't help that there is an Oyaide R1 Beryllium in the wall, it makes the sound a little extra soft to me.


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## NightOwl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yes, the fuses are directional. I have a couple and in the process getting another one. They also need to be broken in to bloom in sound. Currently warming up to the Hi-Fi Tuning sound. Switched the fuses again a few days ago. It doesn't help that there is an Oyaide R1 Beryllium in the wall, it makes the sound a little extra soft to me._

 

O.K. I have nothing against subjectivity, but this is a listening impression?
 There is nothing specific about the geometry or design of the fuse (grain structure of the 1" piece of wire, different materials in each end cap, tapering wire gauge) that would indicate directionality?

 As I stated in my previous post, I'm very familiar with the theories behind the directionality of cables and wire. Whether these can be measured or not, there is a geometry or composition of materials that would indicate the possibility of directionality.

 I can understand that a better physical connection and better materials might make a better fuse, but I would like to know what the design theory is for a directional fuse. There's always a reason for directionality whether plausible or not. I can't rationally apply any of the ones I'm aware of to a fuse and would like to know what I'm missing.


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## BIG POPPA

You can take one for the team and always buy one to perform scientific research on. If you have an amp that can use a 3 amp fuse I can let borrow one to maybe satisfy your curiosity. They are directional and have their own sound signature. Can't tell you too much more info than you could find on the web. Haven't tried the Furutech or the Acme yet to see what the sound signature is. Will have another one this weekend.


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## NightOwl

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You can take one for the team and always buy one to perform scientific research on. If you have an amp that can use a 3 amp fuse I can let borrow one to maybe satisfy your curiosity. They are directional and have their own sound signature. Can't tell you too much more info than you could find on the web. Haven't tried the Furutech or the Acme yet to see what the sound signature is. Will have another one this weekend._

 

Actually my amps do take 3A fuses. I'll do some web surfing, pick a couple of brands and try them (which may or may not include dissection).


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## David Pritchard

The Isoclean made a major improvement in the sound of my Zana Deux. It is certainly directional in that the sound is improved in one direction and worsened when installed the other direction. The good news is it is easy to listen to the fuse installed both ways and decide. The change in sound is not small.
 I think it is worth a try.
 David Pritchard


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## BIG POPPA

So I got FURUTECH and this fuse rocks. put the music closer to you. Slapped it in during the Seattle meet. 
 Getting 3 Audio Grade fuses getting 3 different sounds.
 Got the IsoClean 1st. Very musical, great sound.
 The Hi-Fi tuning was next. Very laidback and soft.
 Then there was the Furutech. Brought the music closer, amazing sound.
 These sound so different. Can see all of them rocking different equipment. If my Rega Ear had a fuse I would slap a Hi-Fi tuning in so fast?


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## WittyzTH

I just got that one too Gil. the sound has clearer and more focus.


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## BIG POPPA

Picked up another Furutech. 3.15 amp this time. I'm amazed how each different brand fuse has it own sound. Great stuff to add to your equipment. Have to find more fuses to try out. I know acme has some. Who else? Any Audio Grade Fuse suggestions will be appreciated.


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## 2wheels4me

Has your opinion stayed the same after burn-in? Are you recommending Furutech over Isoclean? Or are they just different? 

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_So I got FURUTECH and this fuse rocks. put the music closer to you. Slapped it in during the Seattle meet. 
 Getting 3 Audio Grade fuses getting 3 different sounds.
 Got the IsoClean 1st. Very musical, great sound.
 The Hi-Fi tuning was next. Very laidback and soft.
 Then there was the Furutech. Brought the music closer, amazing sound.
 These sound so different. Can see all of them rocking different equipment. If my Rega Ear had a fuse I would slap a Hi-Fi tuning in so fast?_


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## s1rrah

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has your opinion stayed the same after burn-in? Are you recommending Furutech over Isoclean? Or are they just different?_

 

I'm curious too.

 Bout to order a fuse for my new Raptor but not sure if I'm going to go for the Hi Fi tuning (which I already have two of ... one in my Stello HP100 and one in my Havana DAC) ... but sort of curious about the Isocleans as well ...


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## bergman2

perhaps a fuse rolling guide is in order ???


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## BIG POPPA

I can help with a fuse rolling guide. I know WittyTH has a Furutech for his Raptor. OK I have had a IsoClean for over a year. Very familiar with the sound. The Furutech is Rhodium and Cryo'd not Gold plated. IsoClean will not disappoint. Very nuetral and musical sounding.To me the Furutech sound is soft, not laid back. To me was more engaging and pronounced than the Isoclean. I am partial to the Rhodium sound. Have a power cable with Rhodium ends, Rhodium ends on my IC's and a Rhodium Fuse. Would have had a Rhodium IEC port on the Amp but that was on back order. Just have a Gold one. Also have an Oyaide R1 and that is Berylium. Got very cofortable with the soft sound.


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## olblueyez

I want the most sparkle in the highs. Which one do I want?


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## BIG POPPA

Isoclean or Furutech. The IsoClean is a safe bet. To me it is the standard of an Audio Grade Fuse. It goes in different directions from there. I like the Rhodium sound with tubes. Have a few 3A if somebody wants to try it out? Just PM me. Need to get a PS Audio fuse next just to check it out. Gold plated. So I have not been in a hurry.


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## Listens2tubes

In comparison the Acme Silver Ceramic fuses were clearly superior to the HiFi tuning. And half the cost.


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## twylight

I vote for shielding your listening room from EM rays. Like tin foil hat style.

 I think if I ever really got serious about power I would run a custom rig back to its own 20amp lines - ie cut new lines into the wall, etc with better than 2005 builder grade stuff...its kinda ironic to buy a XXX dollar power cord to go from your wall to the unit without taking it back to the breaker box.


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## olblueyez

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *twylight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I vote for shielding your listening room from EM rays. Like tin foil hat style.

 I think if I ever really got serious about power I would run a custom rig back to its own 20amp lines - ie cut new lines into the wall, etc with better than 2005 builder grade stuff...its kinda ironic to buy a XXX dollar power cord to go from your wall to the unit without taking it back to the breaker box._

 

I guess people should ignore what they hear and make purchases that utilize your technical and financial sensibilities.


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## s1rrah

My raptor amp says .5 amps on the circuit board ...

 Does that mean it's a 5A fuse?

 Trying to get the semantics worked out before I buy an IsoClean ... I have two Hi Fi tuning fuses .. one in my havana dac and one in my Stello SS amp ... and liked the improvement over the stock. So gonna try the IsoClean next.


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## twylight

Hey im not hating - I have a mountain of random audio stuff next to me - I would just go all the way on the power, not just the last 6 feet of it. Breakers, jacks, wires, grounding, conditioning, shielding, maybe even a custom pole from the power company. hmmmm this actually wouldn't be too hard to do and A/B between house wire and a custom power rig from the outside pole to the gear...I have custom wiring in my theater room cause I can kill a 20 amp circuit with ease - so I had 3 put in. moar power. 

 Fuses are a different part of the power chain than the cable - they limit the current.


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## BIG POPPA

I use Audio Grade fuses because they color the sound. Isoclean is the most neutral. If your gear requires a fuse. To me it is a cheap upgrade. They all sound different so be aware.


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## SleepyOne

I am using a Hifi Tuning fuse on a furutech UK mains plug. There is definately a gain from the fuse but due to price in UK, the gain/cost ratio is low. If only the fuse cost half the price..... 

 However, I will probably try out Isoclean on my amp to see if the benefit is more for internal fuse.


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## BIG POPPA

Listened to all the fuses again. Hi-Fi Tuning, Furutech, IsoClean. Even had xtreme4099 over my house to listen to all of them. At the end of the day the Furutech was the favorite. The IsoClean I would still say is the standard. The Furutech is soft, engaging, and great with my tube amp. The Hi-Fi Tuning is good but doesn't do it like the other ones do it. A little too laid back for my taste. It is not a bad fuse, just ain't me.


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## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Listened to all the fuses again. Hi-Fi Tuning, Furutech, IsoClean. Even had xtreme4099 over my house to listen to all of them. At the end of the day the Furutech was the favorite. The IsoClean I would still say is the standard. The Furutech is soft, engaging, and great with my tube amp. The Hi-Fi Tuning is good but doesn't do it like the other ones do it. A little too laid back for my taste. It is not a bad fuse, just ain't me._

 

Yesterday I ordered IsoCleans for my Woo WA6 (3A), PSAudio DLIII (2A) and a HiFi Tuning (0.5A) large for the CI power supply for the iTransport. Unfortunately, no 0.5A fuses made by IsoClean. Will report once installed, stay tuned...


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## SleepyOne

OK, will try either furutech or isoclean next, whichever I can find (not super easy in UK for non main type). Agreed re: hifi tuning, didn't do it for me either.


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## WittyzTH

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yesterday I ordered IsoCleans for my Woo WA6 (3A), *PSAudio DLIII (2A) *and a HiFi Tuning (0.5A) large for the CI power supply for the iTransport. Unfortunately, no 0.5A fuses made by IsoClean. Will report once installed, stay tuned..._

 

How do you replace a fuse of DLIII? I didn't see the fuse socket in the back of it.


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## Dan Millheim

Just ordered Furutechs to replace all my Hifi Tuning Fuses in my headphone system. Over the years this modest upgrade, as far as I'm concerned, has been the "best bang for the buck" tweak I have experienced in my system.


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## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_How do you replace a fuse of DLIII? I didn't see the fuse socket in the back of it._

 

It is inside. From my memory: remove the nine (I believe) screws on the bottom, the four on the back. Be careful when you take them out, as the eight along the sides of the bottom, the one near the front but in the middle, and the four on the back are all slightly different screws, so keep them separated properly such that you can put them back where they belong. Also, of course make sure that you use a philips screwdriver head that fits very well with no slippage, such that the tiny screwheads do not get messed up! Slide the top/front forward about two inches, no further is necessary AND remember that the front panel's switches are attached, and the fuse is right there at the back on the side. Replace, and put the proper screws where they belong.


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## EFN

I have to share my experience here. Couple of weeks ago I was visiting my regular Hi-Fi DIY supplies shop (Octave Electronic) and the shop owner was busy tuning this tube preamp on a customer speaker rig. What suprised me the most was how audible a pure Silver fuse sounds like. I can actually hear refinement with clearer highs as opposed to using the stock fuse. Previously I was thinking that a simple fuse could have not contribute directly to SQ - well I was wrong


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## WittyzTH

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *2wheels4me* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_It is inside. From my memory: remove the nine (I believe) screws on the bottom, the four on the back. Be careful when you take them out, as the eight along the sides of the bottom, the one near the front but in the middle, and the four on the back are all slightly different screws, so keep them separated properly such that you can put them back where they belong. Also, of course make sure that you use a philips screwdriver head that fits very well with no slippage, such that the tiny screwheads do not get messed up! Slide the top/front forward about two inches, no further is necessary AND remember that the front panel's switches are attached, and the fuse is right there at the back on the side. Replace, and put the proper screws where they belong._

 

Thanks a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 anyway, can you tell what size is it use? I plan to order it.


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## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And what will help save your gear in a lightning storm besides that million dollar power conditioning and protection you have connected to your gear? A dumb fuse._

 

 Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thanks a lot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 anyway, can you tell what size is it use? I plan to order it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_

 

5 x 20 mm, 2A slow-blow


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## SleepyOne

Very brave using slow-blow!


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## Duggeh

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REVPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fuse direction matters. The difference is usually discernable without trying to listen too hard. 

 When inserted the wrong way, the sound will usually be a bit flatter and softer. Imaging not as good. It can still sound OK, just not "right".

 On fuses with directional arrows - you should still experiment. Unless you are a circuit designer or tech, you may not know the true direction of flow in the circuit. Some boards have been known to be marked incorrectly.

 In testing marked fuses here, it's been determined that the fuse manufacturers are marking them correctly for directionality._

 



 [size=xx-large]I DID LOL[/size]






 Thread suffers from a lack of the king of these sort of tweaks.


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## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *SleepyOne* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Very brave using slow-blow!_

 

Not at all; all of the fuses in my equipment (both full-up stereo and head-fi system, except my WA6) ARE slow-blow including the DAC in question. Slow-blow is also all that IsoClean makes. I also contacted Jack at Woo re my WA6 and he confirmed that a slow-blow is fine. The slow-blows are not THAT slow, as I understand it, anyhow... they will protect from dangerously high current.


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## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REVPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fuse direction matters. The difference is usually discernable without trying to listen too hard. 

 When inserted the wrong way, the sound will usually be a bit flatter and softer. Imaging not as good. It can still sound OK, just not "right".

 On fuses with directional arrows - you should still experiment. Unless you are a circuit designer or tech, you may not know the true direction of flow in the circuit. Some boards have been known to be marked incorrectly.

 In testing marked fuses here, it's been determined that the fuse manufacturers are marking them correctly for directionality._

 

Method to check correct installation directionality without being a Tech: Unplug AC cord, remove fuse. Using any cheap multi-tester set to resistance in ohms, connect one lead to to one of the two non-ground blades inside the IEC connector on your component that your AC cord's female connector plugs into. using the other lead, touch one of the sides of the fuse holder. Keep trying the combos, four in all (two IEC non-ground blades, two fuse holder sides) until resistance is zero; Three combos will show high resistance; one will show no resistance. The one with virtually no resistance is, of course, the side of the fuse holder into which the current flows from the IEC. That is the side of the holder that one will place the starting part of the IsoClean arrow or the HiFiTuning diode symbol (direction-wise, looks like an arrow anyway) such that the current flows in the same direction as the arrow. I cannot speak with certainty about the Furutech (writing from left to right, current from left to right?)

 The above test can also be done with a continuity test on better multi-testers, my cheapo does not have one, but the resistance test is equal to it. Continuity simply means no resistance. The high resistance of the three high-resistance combos is because there is all that circuitry of the component beyond the other side of the fuse holder! The no-resistance side is simply directly connected to one side of the inlet IEC connector.

 If you don't have a multitester, I advise getting one from say, Radio Shack, for almost nothing. A serviceable one costs less than a fuse! They are handy things to have anyhow! 

 Hope this helps.


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## SleepyOne

Thanks for the inform! I probably change the two 2A fuse in my amp first then the DAC (still trying to find correct size allen key to open it up..). Shall see which fuse I can actually find in UK (furutech or isoclean).


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## BIG POPPA

OK, I added another fine sounding piece of equipment to my rig. A Synergistic Research QLS 9 quantum line strip. Real familiar with the Tesla Receptacle. So I thought I kinda had a clue what I was in for? Got some sound stage and some nice detail coming out of the piece that it matched my gear well. After several hours listening, noticed something was missing? It was the bass. Just thought that this piece was a little too nuetral for what I was used too. Thought I had to go get some really syrupy tubes to compinsate? Then I was thinking try swapping the fuses to see if there would be any change? Had the Furutech in. Put in the Hi-Fi Tuning in and the bass and sound I was looking for maically reappeared. With out the SR strip would be listening to the Furutech right now. Just want to give a head-up on how changing one peice of equipment can change the sound of you rig dramatically and how it will effect the synergy. Just stuff to keep in mind.


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## Dan Millheim

Changed out all Hi-Fi's in my headphone rig for Furutech fuses. I've burned in for approx. one week. Result: Not night and day like when replacing stock fuses with the Hi-Fi's but I am hearing some nice clarity and sparkle in the highs which is an improvement. Cymbals sizzle a bit more. Some extension in the width of SQ and a bit closer to the music. Honestly, I'd say if you have Hi-fi's or Furutechs you'd be happy.


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## BIG POPPA

The Rhodium takes a little more time to break in. The Furutech are very smooth compared to the other fuses. The sizzle should tone down in a bit. After putting a SR QLS9 in the system had to learn the fuses again.


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## SleepyOne

Dan Millheim - plese do keep us posted how things progress in a week or two, many thanks!


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## 2wheels4me

IsoClean in my Woo WA6: very nice improvement in refinement. HiFiTuning (only brand that makes 0.5A in LARGE size) in my CIAudio power supply for the iTransport: another nice improvement. Changing the 2A in the Cullen-modded DLIII DAC to a IsoClean: not so much. I was surprised as it made the output too bright. In this DAC, it already has a ceramic fuse and perhaps was optimized as such. I tried reversing the fuse orientation for kicks, but to no sonic improvement. As such, I went back to the stock ceramic and the total sound is great; this is the configuration I demoed at CanJam with some nice compliments from others.

 But what is true beyond any doubt is that the fuse is important to sound, much more than I expected. So, I also did a round of fuse replacement in my full-speaker stereo. I upgraded the fuses to IsoCleans in my modded Shanling CD (I use its digital out though) and got better high-frequency refinement. Changing the 10A in my Von Schweikert small sub added resolution to the bass; much tighter and more powerful. Good so far. Then I changed the fuses to IsoCleans in the modded Shanling tube monoblocks and a drastic change happened; The soundstage became a bit smaller, but treble very refined and more musical. I was left with wanting something in-between. I also noticed that despite the amps having stickers near the IEC saying to use 2A fuses, the fuses I removed were 3As. This may have been part of the mods by PartsConnexion 6 years ago??? It makes me wonder what changing to a 3A IsoClean might do; perhaps the lower rating of the 2As is limiting flow and 3As might reopen the sound a tad?? Anybody tried different ratings for short periods? The amps were very affected by fuse choice.

 So, then I changed the fuse in my other Cullen DLIII, the one I use with the speaker rig and got the same extra-bright sound I heard with the headphone rig. I'm wondering if a Furutech might be a better match for this component.

 Anyway CLEARLY these little devils make considerable changes that ARE on level with the already surprising changes from other power entities, most noticeably cords.

 I will try a couple of 2A Furus for the DACs and 3A IsoCleans for the Shanling amps. I will also try the Furus in the amps. The headphone rig is very good as is, but I am open to the DAC being retrofitted if the Furu works there.

 Has anyone tried the Critical Link fuses from PSAudio? Big Poppa? That might be another good ceramic match for the DACs...


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## BIG POPPA

Yeah the PS audio fuses are on my list. Added a new piece to the rig so in the middle of learning the fuses again. Have not got back to the IsoClean yet.


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## Uncle Erik

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_And what will help save your gear in a lightning storm besides that million dollar power conditioning and protection you have connected to your gear? A dumb fuse._

 

You might also want to consider adding a grounding rod to your home's electrical system. They're invaluable if you regularly have electrical storms.

 I have not been able to locate audiophile-grade grounding rods, but I am sure you could have one cryogenically treated or plated with silver.

 Though I'd think that regular copper ones would work just fine.


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## AudioCats

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You thought I was being serious?_

 

watch out, it seems like people here already figured out the way to make you stop talking: just treat all your smart comments as serious statements, pretty soon you will be so bored you won't post any more


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## dvw

Seem to me the weakest link in the whole power connect is the power switch. Unlike cable and fuse, it has movable part and sometime a filmsy contact. A few that I worked on, the contact seems to be brass. The old ones have all kind of crud on it.

 Is there any after market power switch out there? I bet you it makes a even bigger difference than fuse and cable.


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## uberburger101

Do you mean the wall socket? Quite a few of my friends are using the Oyaide R1 with great results.


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## BIG POPPA

I have the R1. Nice sound. Try the Synergistic Research Tesla, That has a punch. I have tweeked my rig from the receptacle to the fuses and then some.


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## xtreme4099

Yeah the R1 that big poppa has, used to be mine, until i swapped it for the tesla, in short, if you like smooth polite sound, you might like the r1, if you like unrestricted clarity, detail and dynamics youll like the tesla, i chose the latter.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hey Xtreme4099, Long time since you been on forum. Let us know after you hear the Furutech on your rig. Lord knows you know all the fuses in mine.


----------



## jojo_b2

@Xtreme4099 and BIG POPPA

 Can you post a link to the tesla I'm having a hard time finding how they look like. I keep hiting powercells in google. =(

 I'm currently using a Oyaide MTB-6 w/ R1 they are deffinitely better than the Xindak Power Filter and those neiborhood shop power strips.

 I am also using Furutechs for my Yamamoto I did find the Furutechs deffinitely superior to Hifi-Tuning fuses which I tried just for a week. =)


----------



## WittyzTH

I'm also interested in the PS Audio fuse. I went to the Definitive Audio today since they carry the PS Audio stuff, but too bad, they don't carry the fuse, just a main product.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just put the Isoclean back in. To me it is still the reference of Audio Grade Fuses. Try this one first before any else. Love the smoothness of the Furutech, But it does not work for everybody. Will be trying out more shortly.


----------



## WittyzTH

Gil, what source are you using now? I've heard the IsoClean is a no-go for my DAC because it will sound too bright and lack of body. That's why I'm aiming for the PS Audio or probably end up with another FuriTech.


----------



## BIG POPPA

It is in the Darkvoice 336se. Did you let it break in? If you don't use the Synergistic Research QLS 9 the Furutech should be fine. In my 336se I have a FURUTECH Gold . My rig is tweeked from the wall to the headphone. You will see at the next meet.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Main stereo follow-up (not really head-fi, but fuse info nonetheless):

 The IsoCleans are great with the Shanling monoblocks now after recalibrating the low-pass filter frequency of the sub to be at the minimum, eliminating minor lower midrange bloom. It had been moved up because of the DAC's bit of bias toward the upper end, leaving the lower midrange somewhat lacking. I also re oriented the speaker's toe-in back to pre-DAC levels, and the result of these two tweaks (really just back to where they had been for 5 years, pre-DAC) was near-perfection. The IsoCleans in the amps allow the detail and fast rise time of the DAC while still producing silky but unblurred mids and highs. My very critical audiophile friend who has followed my system since its inception came over Sunday and was stunned by the positive changes that made a good system even better.

 So this is with the stock ceramic fuse in the Cullen DAC, as the IsoClean was not a good match there, and this DAC is identical to the one in my headphone rig. I still want to see if Furutechs might improve the sound some more. It is interesting that the IsoCleans clean the sound, especially the highs, in the amps and source, but brighten the sound in the DAC! One needs different fuses for different components and combinations of components, for sure. Unfortunately, we cannot try before we buy.

 In the headphone rig, as mentioned in the earlier post, the IsoClean also worked very well in the Woo WA6.


----------



## WittyzTH

I'm going to try the Critical Link with my PS Audio Digital Link III just because I think it might match very well. On my WA6SE, I put Furitech in it and really like it sound fuller smoother yet plenty of detail. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I may order the Critical Link for the Woo also.


----------



## xtreme4099

@Jo Jo .. 

 Here's where i got my Tesla 
Synergistic Research Tesla Plex Receptacle by Revolution Power

 Just tellem Sergio sent u.


----------



## dannie01

Just bought a Furutech 3.15A (Blue color with Rhodium both ends which the salesman told me it's the new model with neutral sound and impactful bass than the red one) for my WA6SE. It's really impressive, after replace the stock fuse, there are much more micro detail of highs never heard before all now here come from K701, amazig. Let see what will be the improvement in mid and bass, just awesome.


----------



## linuxworks

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *Uncle Erik* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_You might also want to consider adding a grounding rod to your home's electrical system. They're invaluable if you regularly have electrical storms.

 I have not been able to locate audiophile-grade grounding rods, but I am sure you could have one cryogenically treated or plated with silver.

 Though I'd think that regular copper ones would work just fine._

 

careful!

 if these 'audiophiles' think they can tell the direction of an AC FUSE, then maybe they'll also think the ground rod needs turning or switching 'polarity'.

 it would really suck if you had to yank out a grounding rod to 'invert' it.

 so, you better be sure you have the right end driven into the ground!


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *linuxworks* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_careful!

 if these 'audiophiles' think they can tell the direction of an AC FUSE, then maybe they'll also think the ground rod needs turning or switching 'polarity'.

 it would really suck if you had to yank out a grounding rod to 'invert' it.

 so, you better be sure you have the right end driven into the ground!








_

 

Humor is always appreciated. What is even funnier (and even more appreciated) is that it is true that fuses can make a difference!


----------



## WittyzTH

Has anybody get the PS Audio Critical Link fuse?

 --------
 EDIT: 
 Sorry it was refund $5 about no reason. Now the the order status is completed.


----------



## 2wheels4me

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *WittyzTH* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Has anybody get the PS Audio Critical Link fuse?_

 

Not me, but I did order the Furus for my two Cullen DLIIIs. We'll see...


----------



## BIG POPPA

After breaking in The SR QLS9 a bit and listening to all the fuses again. I went back to the Furutech. The QLS9 was very bright and tight in the beginning. Now my rig sounds like I thought it should with the Furutech fuse. BASS is back and it smooth as ever. My next fuses are the Acme and the PS Audio, maybe the cryo'd from Cryo Parts?


----------



## WittyzTH

got the PS Audio fuse today to replace the stock fuse in the Digital Link III. The difference is not as much as I expect. (The stock fuse is great too FWIR.) I'll give more time to let it break in.


----------



## uberburger101

Thinking of changing the fuse in my MAD Ear+ HD, but I wouldn't like the amp to become any brighter/darker than it already is now. Any recommendations? Furutech seems like a safe bet.


----------



## mellows

I like to have a look in here for my weekly laugh. It makes me chuckle in a similar way that metal subgenres do.

 On a pseudo-serious note, do you have gold wall outlets and plugs too? And have you tried other power outlets in your house? Maybe improve soundstaging a bit or something? Each wall outlet could have a different sonic signature for different moods.


----------



## WittyzTH

Here is not a DBT forum, is it?

  Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uberburger101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thinking of changing the fuse in my MAD Ear+ HD, but I wouldn't like the amp to become any brighter/darker than it already is now. Any recommendations? Furutech seems like a safe bet._

 

just don't change it.


----------



## iriverdude

People believe fuses make a difference? lol.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *uberburger101* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Thinking of changing the fuse in my MAD Ear+ HD, but I wouldn't like the amp to become any brighter/darker than it already is now. Any recommendations? Furutech seems like a safe bet._

 

If you want musical but neutral go with the Isoclean. If you want smooth go Furutech. Laidback go Hi-Fi Tuning.


----------



## xtreme4099

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *iriverdude* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_People believe fuses make a difference? lol._

 

They do ... depends on the gear of course, big poppa and i did back to back comparisons and we heard 3 different sound signatures from the 3 types of fuses he had for his DV 336, a furutech, hifi tuning and isoclean ... 

 Im using a furutech in my lisa3 external psu with nice results.


----------



## uberburger101

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_If you want musical but neutral go with the Isoclean. If you want smooth go Furutech. Laidback go Hi-Fi Tuning._

 

Thanks.

 And I wish I didn't click on "View Reply" for some of the recent replies. They weren't worth the time.


----------



## splaz

I think some of you would have a heart attack if you saw the cabling used in your houses... but alas it's out of sight and out of mind.

 My speaker cables are exactly what the old man uses to wire up downlights... 50c a meter cable if that.

 I don't see how such a small change in a tiny component would make a noticeable difference. Think of the kilometres of power company wiring not to mention all the tin/lead/silver/nickel/copper/aluminium/whatever else metals are in the house circuit and the PCBs, connectors, relays and whatever else.


----------



## JamesL

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *splaz* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_I think some of you would have a heart attack if you saw the cabling used in your houses... but alas it's out of sight and out of mind.

 My speaker cables are exactly what the old man uses to wire up downlights... 50c a meter cable if that.

 I don't see how such a small change in a tiny component would make a noticeable difference. Think of the kilometres of power company wiring not to mention all the tin/lead/silver/nickel/copper/aluminium/whatever else metals are in the house circuit and the PCBs, connectors, relays and whatever else._

 

Don't even try. The argument's been done before. They'll find some way to shut you down. It doesn't matter what the logic or reasoning is.
 The last thing we need in the cable thread is another flame war


----------



## BIG POPPA

splaz, if audio grade fuses are not your thing, Great! If you are not going to try them, fine. Please try to keep things nice for others.


----------



## BrianS

I believe I can hear differences in fuses. I think it is a worthwhile yet inexpensive tweak to try. If anything, you know that fuse will work when and if you need it to. I've used hi-fi tuning and isoclean fuses but have not directly compared the two.


----------



## splaz

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_splaz, if audio grade fuses are not your thing, Great! If you are not going to try them, fine. Please try to keep things nice for others._

 

Well I'm just trying to encourage thinking outside the small plane of existance that is your gear and think in greater terms... 

 I am fairly open minded, I never said I wouldn't try them. I feel I would be unlikely to hear a difference... not from closed mindedness or pessimism but from what previous choices I have made, such as this white figure 8 electricians wire over prettier clear OFC wire for the pure fact, why pay 10 times as much for something that makes no audible difference to me ?

 My point is I have seen and helped work with the cables in the walls of houses and some very expensive houses at that... the build quality of such cables would come nowhere near such a fuse. I would estimate that most electrical wiring would only be 10c-$1 or so per meter depending on the gauge. However they do get the job done, they work for what they are intended to do. 

 A lot of things work... for the simple fact there was nothing else on hand, a cable for a subwoofer was made up of speaker cable and some slightly broken RCAs. It was a pretty shocking cable really... I would ultimately throw it in the bin but it worked and it worked as it was intended.

 Anyway back to my point, just think beyond the GPO.


----------



## BIG POPPA

It's all good splaz, this a good tweek that won't break the bank. As simple as that.


----------



## jojo_b2

@splaz
 I have personally found good experiences in changing Fuse. They're cheap compared to changing opamps or capacitors on an amp or CDP (counting cost of labor and materials too). If it doesn't work or someone personally doesn't find any difference. It won't break a bank account but might cost breakfast and lunch money.

 With most hobbies everyone has his wn opinion and preferences. No one is actually pushing someone to accept anything. It's actually the exchange of information that makes it fun too.

 @Big Poppa
 Thanks for pointing out the IsoClean fuses. I'm still sourcing this out in my current location. I've tried Hifi Tuning and Furutechs. But the Furutechs seems to be the way to go. A sad experience w/ the Hi-Fi tuning is it did make my rig quitter (nomore audible distortions) but the soundstage was constricted. I changed fuse to the furutechs right away.


----------



## WittyzTH

My experience is just like rolling the tubes.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Exactly!


----------



## melomaniac

[he hovers over the keyboard, uncertain whether any further entry might stir the evil dragon of controversy or feed the forces of the good...]

 for my money, the Hifi Tuning fuses make a noticeable difference in my Magnepan speakers, where the fuse is literally a notorious bottleneck... not sure whether I'd change fuses anywhere else though - certainly one of the cheapest tweaks out there, and I am very content with it.


----------



## Jerrycan

for my money, the Hifi Tuning fuses make a noticeable difference in my Magnepan speakers, where the fuse is literally a notorious bottleneck... not sure whether I'd change fuses anywhere else though - certainly one of the cheapest tweaks out there, and I am very content with it.[/QUOTE]

 Thanks, I will try them on my maggies. I found bypassing the fuses always a bit scary


----------



## ical

So far I've good result with Isoclean and Cryo Audio which improve the high and mid. 

 Hifi Tuning sound a little dark to my liking. I find that it works best on source that's on the bright side.


----------



## BIG POPPA

I just got an all silver Hi-Fi Tuning Fuse for my 336SE. My forth fuse for it. From the get go it is so much easier to listen to than the gold plated silver. Dark is not the word to describe it. Easy to listen too. Not as liquid as the Furutech. More full bodied sound than the Furutech. Sound is softer than the Isoclean. More laid back than the Isoclean. These are initial impressions. in a few days I will post more.


----------



## BIG POPPA

So I popped the Furutech back in. So much more liquid and smooth. The Silver Hi-Fi tuning is easier to listen to than the Gold Plated. The Isoclean is still King. Still the most neutral and most musical fuse. Still prefer the Furutech in my Darkvoice 336SE. Have to get the PS Audio and the Cryo parts fuses now to see if Isoclean is still the best and Furutech is my favorite.


----------



## iriverdude

Don't waste your money.


----------



## TheAttorney

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *tricia258* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_... Shall see which fuse I can actually find in UK (furutech or isoclean)._

 

Well I can't find isoclean at all in the UK. The nearest distributer is in Italy and I don't understand a word of their website. Anyone with ideas for isoclean mail order options for the UK? It seems a shame for a fuse to go halfway around the world to get from China to US/Canada, only for it to then go halfway around the world again to get to non-Italian speaking Europe.


----------



## HumanMedia

Dont think this has been posted:

 Studies On Residential Power Line Noise - Part 7: HiFi Tuning and Isoclean Fuses
[Review] Studies On Residential Power Line Noise - Part 7: HiFi Tuning and Isoclean Fuses - Club Polk

 For the record Ive tried quite a few different fuses in various components and there is a definite audible change but it usually quite subtle and is different for each component.

 And sometimes the stock fuse sounds the best.

 If you don't want to go into the audiophile fuses then USA made Bussman ceramics are a good general fuse. With standard fuses, ceramics generally sound better.

 One tweak I also do with all fuses which also makes a difference:

 *With an empty fuse holder:
 *Clean the fuse holder contacts with caig or isopropyl alcohol
 *tension the fuse holder so it presses in with more force
 *use Quicksilver gold on the contacts
 *clean the fuse ends
 *insert the fuses
 *put a small section of 1" heatshrink around the fuse holder and heat shrink it on so it tightens around the fuse holder clenching the arms in with force and sealing in the top of the holder/fuse.

 This makes a tight grip which puts constand pressure holding the fuse in tighter. Over a few days the Quicksilver gold hardens and the result is increased 'solidness' to the sound.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Man , had to read the thread again. With the Woo 3+ severely upgraded had to go through the fuses I had. The IsoClean is still King.


----------



## adriena

Yep..Absolutely, the less connections the better. But at the risk of blowing up your equipment. It's for the 10/100 of the population that likes living constantly on the edge.


----------



## BrianS

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *adriena* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Yep..Absolutely, the less connections the better. But at the risk of blowing up your equipment. It's for the 10/100 of the population that likes living constantly on the edge._

 

2 posts? have you tried it?


----------



## ted_b

Thanks to all for these great fuse comments and experiences. I have recently ordered a few Furutech fuses for my amps (Spectron monoblocks...could use a little Furutech smoothness), one of my pre's (Wyred STP SE) and one (oops) for my Weiss DAC2. I say "oops" cuz the 500mA fuse arrived a couple days ago (the rest haven't) and lo and behold the damn DAC takes two (2) of them. It's one of those doors next to the IEC inlet. Has two stacked fuses, one neutral, one phase. So I replaced the top one (dunno which is which). Do you guys expect weird results with one leg Furutech rhodium (I have the other fuse on order now), and one leg a standard stock fuse? So far, after 24 hrs, upper mids and lower treble actually sound a little brittle...but no where near broken in.
 Thx
 Ted


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Furutech may be in backwards if it is sounding brittle.


----------



## ted_b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Furutech may be in backwards if it is sounding brittle._

 

Thanks. I will go one variable at a time and let it break in another 48 hrs or so; then I'll reverse it. I'll report back...but again, I only have it on one leg of the AC so it may be moot until I get the other one installed and settled in. Thanks again,
 Ted


----------



## ted_b

Big Poppa,
 That was it!! I reversed it after letting it settle in a bit more and voila, it's much clearer and more dynamic. It had sounded like I had all of a sudden gotten congested on complex passages, as if my 800 watt per channel Magtech amp was straining! Not any more. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thanks. Can't wait for the other fuse for the other leg of this ac.


----------



## BIG POPPA

What does it sound like now?


----------



## Shark_Jump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *REVPOWER* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_Fuse direction matters. The difference is usually discernable without trying to listen too hard. 

 When inserted the wrong way, the sound will usually be a bit flatter and softer. Imaging not as good. It can still sound OK, just not "right".

 On fuses with directional arrows - you should still experiment. Unless you are a circuit designer or tech, you may not know the true direction of flow in the circuit. Some boards have been known to be marked incorrectly.

 In testing marked fuses here, it's been determined that the fuse manufacturers are marking them correctly for directionality._

 

You do know a fuse is just a piece of wire? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Or am I missing something????


----------



## Shark_Jump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_The Furutech may be in backwards if it is sounding brittle._

 

Is a Furutech more than just a piece of fusewire then?

 Just for interest how much do they cost?


----------



## BIG POPPA

Furutech High Performance Fuses - Large by Revolution Power


----------



## Shark_Jump

So you guys paid $45 for a fuse.

 And depending on which way around it is, you hear different quality sound?

 And inside the casing it is a length of copper fusewire right?


----------



## BIG POPPA

The Furutech is not just copper. Rhodium plated and cryo'd. Can't really knock them if you haven't tried them. They are my favorite and I have 4 different Audio grade fuses.


----------



## Shark_Jump

Sorry, I am not knocking them. I don't know what i said to make you think that.

 I am confused though. I am struggling to understand how a rhodium plated and cryo'd 1/4" length of copper wire can have different properties if you turn it around.

 The fuse is only about 1/4 in long, yes?. If you can argue that a 12" run of power cable makes subtle differences to the sound, then what sort of differences can a 1/4" long piece of wire at the end of it make to your system? And you can hear differences by turning this 1/4" piece of wire around the other way.

 Have you tried taking the fuse out and replacing it back the same way around? I am thinking just the act of taking the fuse out could be removing a layer of oxidation at the contacts. So the change you are hearing might not be for the reason you think.


----------



## BIG POPPA

May be the way wire is twisted or how it is attached to each end? I have a blown Furutech if you want it to take apart to see? I should ask my dealer.


----------



## Shark_Jump

apologies BP you caught me out, I edited my previous post (added a sentence at end)


----------



## ted_b

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_What does it sound like now?_

 

After turning it around, and letting it settle back in the sound is much more dynamic (as opposed to having the fuse in "backwards') and less congested. As far as the overall Furutech improvements (from stock fuse) I'm hearing slightly better separation, more microdetail, and slightly tighter bass response. Leading edges of transients are still quite sharp as they should be (piano attack, for example) but are more musically real...not as harsh as they could tend to be before the Furutech. keep in mind i only have one of the two AC fuses replaced so far (neutral leg I believe).


----------



## Shark_Jump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_May be the way wire is twisted or how it is attached to each end? I have a blown Furutech if you want it to take apart to see? I should ask my dealer._

 

If its blown why don't you just crack it open and see what's inside. I don't understand, why do you need to ask your dealer?


----------



## BIG POPPA

It is simple, You ask the question how they are built? Somebody else will? Hopefully it is a simple explanation?


----------



## patsyleung

Just to be clear - when you say directional, the direction of what? Conventional current flow or the actual flow of electrons? Do engineers point the arrow the opposite direction from lay people?


----------



## Pars

This is AC... current flows both directions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





alm:


----------



## BIG POPPA

There are arrows on the fuses that are directional. They do sound underwhelming when the are put in the wrong direction.


----------



## smeggy

Alternating, by definition, doesn't have a 'direction'

 "an electric current that reverses its direction at regularly recurring intervals"

 Whichever way around a fuse goes, it'll be the 'correct' direction 50% of the time, _*if *_said directionality existed.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Hey Smeggy, I have a 4-3amp fuses if you have something to try them out on? They are fun and cheap to roll. Any more Wooden Grado Mods?


----------



## Pars

Just curious... do you use larger amperage fuses than rated? 3A seems kinda large for most hp amps, my dynahi tranny only needs a 2A slow-blow (without inrush protection). At $30 each, I wouldn't want to have many of those go poof


----------



## BIG POPPA

Had only one go poof. On the back back of the DV336se it says 1amp, inside was a 3amp. Bought that 1amp once. On my Woo 3+, the 3amp was just fine with Jack. That was very cool since I have a collection of them.


----------



## Shark_Jump

Quote:


  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
_There are arrows on the fuses that are directional. They do sound underwhelming when the are put in the wrong direction._

 

What is the right direction? Is it when the arrow is pointing in the direction of the positive voltage sine waves or the negative voltage ones?


----------



## TheAttorney

Excuse the thread bump, but I finally got round to my first audio grade fuse – with a result more interesting than I had expected.
   
  This one was a 13A gold capped HiFi Tuning (HFT) that fits into a UK mains plug. It was a “freebie” that came with my Audience Power Conditioner a few months back (see here for my review).
   
  That review was based on having the HFT fuse in the plug that fed the Audience – i.e. the common entry point for all my components and so the most crucial. After just enjoying the sound for a few weeks, I swapped the HFT for a stock fuse and this seemed to downgrade the sound slightly. However, the difference was fairly subtle TBH and I couldn’t discount placebo at this point. So then I went to the next level and bypassed the fuse entirely! Before going any further, I’d like to think that all head-fiers are sensible, intelligent people, but for those who aren’t and for newbies…
   
  WARNING: DEATH CAN BE FATAL. And even worse, your system will sound rubbish if it’s burnt to a crisp. The only, ONLY place that it is arguably appropriate to bypass a fuse is in a UK mains plug, which is redundant when you already have a circuit breaker/RCD at one end of the chain and the component’s lower rated fuse at the other. Some UK audiophiles use European schuko plugs/sockets as a way of bypassing the 13A fuse. Never, ever try replacing your main component’s fuses with anything other than the correctly rated fuse as recommended by the manufacturer.      
   
  Having got that out of the way, the reason I’ve brought this up is that the SQ improvementof fuse bypass above the HFT was considerably greater than that of the HFT above stock fuse. The bypass very obviously built upon the main strength’s of the Audience: micro detail and macro dynamics, with more solid and lifelike images. 
   
  My conclusions from this limited test were that (a) fuses can significantly affect a system’s SQ; (b) that they are probably the best value for money tweak you can get – assuming the rest of the system is transparent enough to show it; (c) that HFT still has some way to go to get to the ultimate level (no fuse at all).


----------



## BIG POPPA

Do you use the gold or silver HFT?


----------



## TheAttorney

Dunno. It was a freebie and there was nothing on the packaing to indicate which version. As the end caps looked gold, I've gussed it was the gold version. Based on the earlier comments in this thread, when I (eventually) get round to ordering replacement fuses for my Stax amp and CDP, they will probably be the IsoCleans.


----------



## BIG POPPA

IsoCleans are an awesome choice. Like them more the the HFT


----------



## BIG POPPA

Put the Isoclean fuse back in the Woo 3+. Isoclean is still the King of fuses. IMO I would start with the Isoclean first. HFT's are better than stock but that is it.


----------



## luvdunhill

So, I have been conducting some tests comparing boutique fuses to some other options, namely thermal breakers and other types of resettable fuses. My current favorite is the Potter & Brumfield W28, which absolutely blows traditional *AND BOUTIQUE* ceramic and glass fuses out of the water. I'm also looking at PTCs for digital equipment, where current draw is less and finding huge gains there as well. Has anyone else experimented with these superior upgrades? I know others that also prefer these thermal breakers to traditional fuses, including Jon Risch, so this isn't really a new idea. 
   
  I know there are some people that disagree, and I'm willing to discuss some reasons why this might be the case. I think perhaps it has to do with the fact that thermal breakers have less resistance than traditional fuses and thus less restriction in the dynamics and resulting blacker backgrounds and a removal of a haze that I now associate with boutique ceramic and glass fuses. 
   
  opinions?


----------



## BIG POPPA

How do they sound compared to the others you have tested?


----------



## fatcat28037

IMO the threads on god-awful expensive power cables and interconnects and how they contribute an improvement in sound are unbelievable enough. But fuses? Boutique fuses? At $40 a pop? I gotta' believe P.T. Barnum was right.


----------



## sokolov91

Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> IMO the threads on god-awful expensive power cables and interconnects and how they contribute an improvement in sound are unbelievable enough. But fuses? Boutique fuses? At $40 a pop? I gotta' believe P.T. Barnum was right.


 

 What blows my mind is people go to all this effort without using audiophile air.
   
  Air is the most important part of the chaine, because without it, there is no music. So, why people play music on the stagnant air in their home, instead of premium fresh air from the tops of famous mountains, like Everest etc is beyond me.
   
  Sure cables make a night and day difference, but only if you have audiophile air to hear them.


----------



## BIG POPPA

If you haven't tried them why are you being so negative? I have 4 of them. And I swap them in my Woo. They all have their own sound.
  
  Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> IMO the threads on god-awful expensive power cables and interconnects and how they contribute an improvement in sound are unbelievable enough. But fuses? Boutique fuses? At $40 a pop? I gotta' believe P.T. Barnum was right.


----------



## mrarroyo

^ For the same reason that people comment on amps,dacs, headphones, etc. without listening to them. Opinions based on specs or what the writer imagines, very telling if you ask me.


----------



## nick_charles

Rather than invoking anecdotes or the TLA whose name cannot be spoke, has anyone measured the differences in outputs from a device using different fuses ?


----------



## fatcat28037

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> If you haven't tried them why are you being so negative? I have 4 of them. And I swap them in my Woo. They all have their own sound.


 

 OK, you've got all this amplifier circuitry, 6 feet of headphone cable and then the headphone transducers and I'm suppose to believe that a "special" fuse in front of all of this will make an audible change in sound? I just can't believe that, it's not logical.


----------



## leeperry

the best fuse is no fuse:


----------



## 9pintube

This Topic made me think back to my "Way Younger Years" when we use to wrap our blown fuses with aluminum foil, so we could rock on the rest of the evening......Just stupid Kids we(I) was?? How about you Uncle Erik, bring back any memories/ nightmares......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Big Popa, I haven't tried any super fuses!  I'd need 15 of those suckers, In my main system.....!!!!.


----------



## TheAttorney

Quote: 





nick_charles said:


> ...has anyone measured the differences in outputs from a device using different fuses ?


 
  Now you're just being silly 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. If you've found no significant measurement difference in your cable tests to explain alleged sound differences, there's absolutely no chance of anyone here having the means,skills or inclination to come up with measurements to explain fuse sound differences.
  
  Quote: 





fatcat28037 said:


> OK, you've got all this amplifier circuitry, 6 feet of headphone cable and then the headphone transducers and I'm suppose to believe that a "special" fuse in front of all of this will make an audible change in sound? I just can't believe that, it's not logical.


 
  It's customary at this point for the sceptic to point out the miles and miles of power cables that come up to your house. I'm surprised you missed that one 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I can only guess at the logic, but nothing that would impress a sound scientist. It's back to trusting those ears again.
  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> the best fuse is no fuse:


 
  I absolutely agree with this, but should repeat my earlier warning that death can be fatal.
  
  Quote: 





9pintube said:


> Big Popa, I haven't tried any super fuses!  I'd need 15 of those suckers, In my main system.....!!!!.


 
  But you only need 1 fuse to prove the point (or not). I've just had a look at your impressive hi-fi system list. With what that system must have cost, plus the cables and other "tweaks" you've already got, I would say you're selling your system short if you don't try a fancy fuse - just 1 to start.


----------



## setamp

I have read through this tread a couple of times as I have had success with boutique fuses finding them to be an effective tweak.

 I am looking for suggestions for a couple of applications:

 1.  I have a Music Hall Maverick CD player with a stock 1A slow blow and would like to replace this fuse.  I would like to smooth out a little hardness I have in the upper mids/ lower highs and would like to boost the volume/weight of my bass.  I am leaning toward the Furu but am wondering if the HFT is perhaps the better idea to darken my sound a little and push back the upper mids a touch.

 2.  I am using a DV337 with 2 HFT 3A fast blows.  I have been using this value fuse as this is what came with the amp.  I see others using Furu fuses in their DV's and am curious as to whether a slow blow is appropriate in this amp.  If so, what fuse would move me toward my goal of bigger bass and smoother upper mids?  If I must stick with fast blows, would the HFT silvers move me in the right direction?

 Thanks


----------



## leeperry

theattorney said:


> I absolutely agree with this, but should repeat my earlier warning that death can be fatal.


 

 No worries, my DAC can either be fed from a wallwart or a DPS...and the DPS already has a fuse of the same value on its output, my guess is that this fuse was here for the wall wart...and redundant, so I shunted it.


----------



## 9pintube

Quote: 





theattorney said:


> But you only need 1 fuse to prove the point (or not). I've just had a look at your impressive hi-fi system list. With what that system must have cost, plus the cables and other "tweaks" you've already got, I would say you're selling your system short if you don't try a fancy fuse - just 1 to start.


 

 My BAD, as "they say"!!   Yea! I'm a Lucky Guy!!! as far as Equipment goes.....I showed my friend (builder) Chris Ivan those fuses when they 1st came out and his comment, "You Got To Be (BLANK BLANK) kidding me"......"Don't put that (BLANK BLANK) in MY STUFF"


----------



## leeperry

it's the same as high end cables, they might very well improve the SQ...but come-on, $27 for a gold plated Isoclean fuse? how much does it cost to manufacture? $0.3 in China? the SQ is irrelevant when the price is a such a blatant rip off.


----------



## Uncle Erik

Quote:


9pintube said:


> This Topic made me think back to my "Way Younger Years" when we use to wrap our blown fuses with aluminum foil, so we could rock on the rest of the evening......Just stupid Kids we(I) was?? How about you Uncle Erik, bring back any memories/ nightmares......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes!  This topic reminds me of putting pennies behind blown fuses in the box.  Funny thing is that we recently replaced a panel in a rental house with circuitbreakers.  It still had the original fusebox from the late 1940s when the place was built.
   
  A few times, I've mulled over various miniature circuitbreakers.  They have ones that are small enough to put in an amp.  It would be a safe way to avoid fuses altogether.

  
  Quote: 





leeperry said:


> it's the same as high end cables, they might very well improve the SQ...but come-on, $27 for a gold plated Isoclean fuse? how much does it cost to manufacture? $0.3 in China? the SQ is irrelevant when the price is a such a blatant rip off.


 

 They're very cheap to manufacture.  A few tools and a slick marketing campaign would make you some money.  You wouldn't be UL rated, but it seems that very, very few of these aftermarket power devices are.
   
  UL rating is one reason I won't touch 99% of these power devices other than in the lab.  How do you know that what's in the glass tube really will melt at a given input?  How do you know they're not just snowing you with something that isn't what they say it is?  Same goes for any of this tweako stuff.  I wonder how many of them are what they are sold as or if they're just another garden hose with Home Depot wire inside.


----------



## nick_charles

Quote: 





leeperry said:


> it's the same as high end cables, they might very well improve the SQ...but come-on, $27 for a gold plated Isoclean fuse? how much does it cost to manufacture? $0.3 in China? the SQ is irrelevant when the price is a such a blatant rip off.


 

 Meh, if they really could improve the SQ I would not grumble too much about being fleeced for $27 for a 30c item. I just do not quite see how , since they are not in the signal path, that they could make much difference, that is why I would really like to see some proof that they do change the characteristics of the output signal, and since I am skeptical about subjective reports some FR before and after measurements is hardly rocket science ?
   
  HiFi tuning fuses say *"Each fuse is handmade and tested in germany". *The only test for a fuse is that it blows when the current exceeds its rating, so once a boutique fuse has blown they can send it out fully tested, but the fuse they send you is intact so it cannot have been tested


----------



## n3rdling

Another reason to avoid non UL rated stuff is the reaction you'll get from the insurance company if you ever damage your home from your gear while you're not there.  A "small but definite improvement" isn't worth losing a house over.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Some are gold plated, rhodium plated, and silver plated. Some are cryo'd and made by hand. It is just speculation that these fuses are only 30c items
  
  Quote: 





nick_charles said:


> Meh, if they really could improve the SQ I would not grumble too much about being fleeced for $27 for a 30c item. I just do not quite see how , since they are not in the signal path, that they could make much difference, that is why I would really like to see some proof that they do change the characteristics of the output signal, and since I am skeptical about subjective reports some FR before and after measurements is hardly rocket science ?


----------



## Uncle Erik

Quote:


big poppa said:


> Some are gold plated, rhodium plated, and silver plated. Some are cryo'd and made by hand. It is just speculation that these fuses are only 30c items


 

 Not entirely.  Glass tubing is dead cheap and easy to get.  A $5-$10 tool is all you need to cut it.  Silver closed at $19.74/oz. yesterday.  One ounce would probably plate hundreds, if not thousands, of tubes.  You can assemble a plating kit in your garage for maybe $50-$100.  The little end caps could be pressed by hand, or you could order bags by the thousand from China.  There's very little metal in them and not exactly a lot of machining.  A little bit of ceramic clay is dead cheap, and so is any epoxy or glue you use to hold them together.  Cryo is really cheap, too.  I haven't priced it for awhile, but I think it was $5 or $6 to have some plane blades treated.  One blade would probably take up the equivalent volume of three or four hundred fuses.
   
  I suppose if you made a few jigs and built a few specialized tools, you could crank a lot of these out in your garage for probably no more than $1 each.  Labor would be nothing since there's so little to actually do.  It's not like an amp with 200, 300 or more connections to make.  If you're able to sell them at $30, you'll recover your tool costs after selling a handful.  They'd go into pure profit pretty fast.
   
  Same thing with cables, by the way.
   
  I wonder if it is any coincidence that the most controversial stuff in audio is always the least complex stuff that anyone can knock off in their garage or a spare bedroom.  It seems that the simpler something is, the more likely it will have magical claims, angry defiance of known science and sold at a fantastically high price.
   
  You see some BS with headphones, amps and sources.  But those take some skill and know-how to build.
   
  I think the simpler things, like fuses, cables, isolation devices, etc. have a much lower barrier to entry, so they're naturally attractive to those looking for a fast buck.


----------



## BIG POPPA

These are made in Germany and in Japan, You seem to over simplify? Your speculation goes a long doesn't it?


----------



## nick_charles

If you are referring to HiFi-Tuning Fuses as made by HIFI-Tuning.com (as  I was) every reference to them I have seen says that they are made in Germany, if they are also made in Japan <shrug>.
   
  Neither that nor their production costs alters the question of whether or not they make any difference, but if you want to go on wilfully missing the point be my guest.
   
   
   
  Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  


> These are made in Germany and in Japan, You seem to over simplify? Your speculation goes a long doesn't it?


----------



## Uncle Erik

big poppa said:


> These are made in Germany and in Japan, You seem to over simplify? Your speculation goes a long doesn't it?





What do Germany and Japan have to do with anything? Importing goods adds cost, but a pricetag does not equal quality. Neither does it mean that they make any difference.

 What's remarkable is that similar claims are made for these fuses no matter what they're plugged into. There are many different types of power supplies using many, many different types of components. If electricity is so sensitive to minute changes, then why doesn't the fuse behave differently depending on what kind of circuit it is feeding? An extra resistor or capacitor would behave differently depending on how it is employed, so why do fuses give the same benefits no matter what? It seems to point at a psychological difference rather than a physical one.


----------



## luvdunhill

Quote: 





n3rdling said:


> Another reason to avoid non UL rated stuff is the reaction you'll get from the insurance company if you ever damage your home from your gear while you're not there.  A "small but definite improvement" isn't worth losing a house over.


 

 unfortunately, you'll have to avoid DIY equipment all together then, if you're worried about insurance adjustors...
   
  Uncle Erik: looks like you've considered other options. Why not try thermal breakers / PTCs?


----------



## Uncle Erik

Quote:


luvdunhill said:


> unfortunately, you'll have to avoid DIY equipment all together then, if you're worried about insurance adjustors...
> 
> Uncle Erik: looks like you've considered other options. Why not try thermal breakers / PTCs?


 

 DIY is sort of like food.  If I go out to eat, I have to trust the kitchen not to send me on a 4AM emergency trip to the bathroom.  Not a problem when I cook for myself, since I know what goes into the meal and am fussy about keeping it clean.  Same with DIY.  I've been through a bit of old tube gear, take safety seriously and read everything I can about good building practices.
   
  However, I don't know what goes into aftermarket cables or other tweaks.  I'm not going to buy a $500 power cord and cut it open to see if it was built safely.  At least you can open up an amp.
   
  The thermal breaker idea is an excellent one.  I think it would be excellent in a tube amp.  I'll make sure to dig a few up to play with the next time I visit Apex.


----------



## luvdunhill

pretty nice devices. I use the Potter and Brumfield W28 series. They're panel mountable just like a fuse, and may even drop into some fuse knock outs. They are available down to 250mA, suitable for just about any project, solid-state or tube. Total cost around $5. For smaller current draws, PTCs are pretty nice and extremely easy to use. Last one I used had a hold current just over 1A and trip at 2A. Available from Raychem, which now is a division of Tyco. Part number was RUSBF110 I believe. Again, nice alternative to fuses.


----------



## Black Stuart

Thermal breakers - sounds like a good idea.
   
  I have a Dutch friend who was so knocked out by the Rhodium fuses ( he has the same h/amp as me) he bought me one and sent it as a present. I have to say that I thought he was losing it - how the hell can one fuse be so much better than another and to cap it all, he said they were directional - "Harry your crazy" - "try it and then tell me I'm crazy" was his reply.
   
  So I did and he was'nt crazy at all. The problem here is that you will be attacked by those who spout from theory and not from practice. I cannot have any respect for the theory merchants but happily engage with those who have first hand experience.
   
  If you can't or wont shell out for a Furutech fuse, here's an experiment to try - ONLY, AND I DO MEAN ONLY, IF YOU HAVE MEASURED YOUR AMP AND KNOW IT TO BE COMPLETELY STABLE (which a lot of commercial amps are'nt BTW) you can uprate the fuse. On the old WAD forum, one of the moderators suggested changing the 1.6A fuse for a 5A fuse. The resident hugely experienced E/E went mad and said all those who tried this were crazy. Well not one person who tried this had their amp blow because no one tried this who could'nt demonstrate to themselves that their amp was stable.
   
  Everyone who tried this remarked on the improved sound of their amps. Again I must stress that if you don't have the ability to judge/measure the stability of your amp - DO NOT TRY.
   
  The less fuses you have in your system the better. I have suggested to UKers that they ditch their UK plugs and buy a Shuko dis. block and Shuko plugs. I have never heard of mainlanders blowing up their equipment because they don't have plugs individually fused and I have been living on the mainland for 10 years now. If proper mains spike protection is built into your dis. block, there will be  no problem. Whilst looking for land to build our home we rent an old house and I cannot believe the size of French fuses in the consumer panel - they are enormous and they are not cheap but because they are enormous they have less detrimental effect than the much smaller UK fuses. When I build my home I will use a consumer panel that use circuit breakers, no question of that.
   
  Before I knew better I wasted £150 on a LAT International UK dis. block (anyone want to make me a reasonable offer for it?). When I moved to Spain I bought from Lidls a Shuko dis. block with built in spike protection for around €7. All metal contacts are bare copper (which I protect with de-oxit) and not nickel plated (bad news).
   
  Are the Furutech fuses better than bog standard ones - yes, are they over priced yes but so are the Furutech and WBT plugs as well. Engineering is engineering if you want to pay for the name (like Nike) fine - I don't. I can't make those Rhodium fuses, so when I buy my PH32 power amp I will shell out for another Rhodium fuse. There are plenty of alternative plugs that are far cheaper  to buy that use exactly the same design and materials as Furutech/WBT - if anyone knows of a cheap copy of the Furutech fuses let me know - I will buy.


----------



## Golden Monkey

The skeptic in me still wants to call BS on these fuses, even after reading this entire thread twice.  I'm really curious though if they WOULD make an improvement in my system.  I have one fuse each in the Monarchy DIP, OMZ DAC, and Woo 3+...which one would make the biggest difference if replaced?  I'm guessing the Woo.  Would anyone care to go out on a limb and trust me with lending me one for a few days, just so I can prove/disprove to myself that these are of any benefit?  I'll ship it right back to you, I promise.  Anyway, if a kind soul out there would be willing, please send me a PM. Thanks!


----------



## Black Stuart

Golden Monkey,
  seeing how many fell for example - the Sondek b/s - upgrades called Nirvana and Valhalla in the 70s' and don't forget the Belt b/s these and many more made me into a total skeptic on everything hi-fi and it was'nt until the mid 90s' that I started shelling out for 'better' i/cs and speaker cable but then the i/net came along and I found that I had been screwed for these as well.
   
  I now make my own i/cs and am tackling the problematic construction of TT phono outs. The only way you are going to know if these 'special fuses' are b/s or not is to lay out for one. You have obviously read my previous post - take note that all those who diss these fuses have never tried one - they are talking from theory not practise - how pathetic. If you want to see if they are b/s or not use one first in your power amp.
   
  I am still a skeptic in many areas of musical reproduction, filters are a classic no-no for me. Many waste IMO a lot of money on these, why, well a filter does just that - it interferes with the flow of electricity.
   
  What does interest me are - balanced power supply units. These are used in every commercial studio. All they do is cancel out noise on the power supply, this can only be a good thing. What I want to know is can a spike filter be fitted into the power companies line before the BPS unit - is this worthwhile. More importantly if circuit breakers are used in the consumer supply unit, are they even nec?
   
  You can spend a fortune for  BPS units or be smart and buy a no name one - I am going to buy a no name one made in the UK with Shuko sockets @ approx. £150 + shipping to the mainland. One of these and maybe thermal breakers are the way to go but until then I will use the Rhodium fuses.
   
  I repeat, disregard all those who talk from theory - unless something costs a lot of money - empirical research is the only way to go.


----------



## Golden Monkey

Well, I found some Isocleans on sale, so I'm going to try one in my amp and see.  Oh, and for those saying you should rewire your house, etc. etc...you can start here, with this:
   
http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=64


----------



## alvin sawdust

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Well, I found some Isocleans on sale, so I'm going to try one in my amp and see.  Oh, and for those saying you should rewire your house, etc. etc...you can start here, with this:
> 
> http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=64


 


  Great looking but rediculously priced.


----------



## Xan7hos

Quote: 





sokolov91 said:


> What blows my mind is people go to all this effort without using audiophile air.
> 
> Air is the most important part of the chaine, because without it, there is no music. So, why people play music on the stagnant air in their home, instead of premium fresh air from the tops of famous mountains, like Everest etc is beyond me.
> 
> Sure cables make a night and day difference, but only if you have audiophile air to hear them.


 

 good point. you might want to seek cold air to, as sound does travel faster as temperatures lower (if you want to increase the speed of course)


----------



## Golden Monkey

So, assuming I have the ears of a Golden God, what exactly am I supposed to be hearing with an Isoclean in my Woo 3+ that I didn't with the base fuse?  There's no way to do a strict A/B comparison, and I'm not sure what's different...I can't say there is or isn't a difference, other than in a cumulative sense in my whole system. 
   
  Sure, as things sound now, the sonic presentation is much better than my DVD player feeding the Woo, but then a couple Gs in audio stuff ought to improve everything, lol.  It's like going from my stock HD650 cable to the top of the line APS v3 with all the bells and whistles...yes, it feels nicer, and looks cooler, but does the improvement merit the price over and above any other after-market cable?...debatable.
   
  At this point, the few things that yielded major improvemnents overall (outside of amp and headphones) were the Black Gate caps in the Woo (detail, presentation, clarity and separation) and the OMZ DAC (detail, naturalness, musicality, and smooth presentation).  Everything else on its own hasn't come close to justifying the expense, lol.  A $30-40 fuse isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but is it worth it in comparison to the stock one?  Again, debatable. 
   
  Admittedly, I wasn't expecting any earth-shattering difference, and I'm sure there IS a certain quality that's different, I just can't put my finger on it.  I definitely don't see myself entering the world of "fuse rolling" anytime soon.  It's much more fun and rewarding to roll tubes and debate the merits of a Siemens CCa vs. an Amperex 6922...


----------



## Uncle Erik

Quote:


golden monkey said:


> So, assuming I have the ears of a Golden God, what exactly am I supposed to be hearing with an Isoclean in my Woo 3+ that I didn't with the base fuse?


 
   
  Do you have anything that kicks off EMI/RFI handy?  Something with an AC motor, dimmer switch, fluorescent light, etc.  If I had something that was supposed to "clean up" the power, I'd key up a ham radio transmitter and deliberately put some RFI on the line.
   
  I'd want to see if the fuse (or power cord, etc.) let intentionally noisy power through.  If the Isoclean supposedly cleans power, then give it some dirty power and see what happens.
   
  Even if a 'scope doesn't measure "everything" that a tweak allegedly does, you could still measure enough noise on the line to demonstrate that the noise exists.


----------



## Golden Monkey

That's a good thought...I'll have to try something.  The whole rig is on a Furman power conditioner. but the wiring in the rest of the house is old (1950's), and there's plenty of 60hz hum (not on the equipment though, I'm speaking in general...).  I don't hear any noise from the PC or its battery backup, even though they share an outlet (that particular AC line was installed about two years ago, and is separate from the rest of the house), and the fridge and lights and dimmers and fans in the house add no significant noise to the audio equipment.  I should probably just plug the amp straight into an outlet (and not on the Furman) and listen for any noise.  Thanks for the idea, UE!  (and nice to see you here again, and not just on B&B, lol...)


----------



## BIG POPPA

OK guys I have been enlightened on a possible problem upgrading to these type of fuses. Let see if I can explain this clearly very simple. Will not give the name of the fuse at this time but may later. If you replace your fuses in a right and left channel set up. They may have a channel inbalance in sound. One channel may sound louder than the other. This may because the resistance may not be held in a tight tolerance. One fuse had a lot less resistance than the other fuse sent to the customer in a pair.  A retailer let me know of this situation because of the thread. To help this type of thing matching of fuses may have to happen like of tubes. But with fuses it will be of resistance. To solve this problem. Any thoughts?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> OK guys I have been enlightened on a possible problem upgrading to these type of fuses. Let see if I can explain this clearly very simple. Will not give the name of the fuse at this time but may later. If you replace your fuses in a right and left channel set up. They may have a channel inbalance in sound. One channel may sound louder than the other.


 
   
  Time to buy a new amplifier if they do.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

Not really. If the resistance is really different between the fuses? It would make sense to try to match the resistance as close as possible to solve the situation.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Not really.


 
   
  Yes, really. If the amp's gain is being affected by the resistance of the line fuse, there's something terribly wrong.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

For example if one channel resistance is 100 ohms and the other one is 1000 from the fuses of course they are going to sound lopsided. It is just the fuses. My gear just has one fuse in the IEC for the most part. Have not even tried to go through the Sansui 9090 yet, it has a bunch in the circuit.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> For example if one channel resistance is 100 ohms and the other one is 1000 from the fuses of course they are going to sound lopsided.


 
   
  *sigh*
   
  I think it would be best if I say nothing more here.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

So talking to the retailer again, to double check that I have the problem correct. You have 2 fuses of the same amp rating like a 3amp fuse. They are used one for the left channel and one for the right. For example one would have 100 ohms and one would have 1000 for argument sake. They would sound off, the left channel and right channel would sound inbalanced. And the retailer told me if you switch them the would act the same but opposite. That is how they came to the conclusion of the fuses being the problem. Hope this clarifies a little better.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> So talking to the retailer again, to double check that I have the problem correct. You have 2 fuses of the same amp rating like a 3amp fuse. They are used one for the left channel and one for the right. For example one would have 100 ohms and one would have 1000 for argument sake. They would sound off, the left channel and right channel would sound inbalanced. And the retailer told me if you switch them the would act the same but opposite. That is how they came to the conclusion of the fuses being the problem. Hope this clarifies a little better.


 

 If that's what you're being told, then it's not time to buy another amplifier, it's time to get another retailer.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

Would like to hear your opinion a bit more. Please explain more in detail your opinion. I don't get really where you are coming from with your opinion. Please enlighten? Have you came across this and fixed it another way? Is there something we are missing really? Please let us know where the failure with this problem and how to fix it? It was fixed with two fairly matched fuses with the resistance?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> Would like to hear your opinion a bit more. Please explain more in detail your opinion. I don't get really where you are coming from with your opinion. Please enlighten? Have you came across this and fixed it another way? Is there something we are missing really? Please let us know where the failure with this problem and how to fix it? It was fixed with two fairly matched fuses with the resistance?


 

 What's missing is this:
   
  1) The mains fuses have absolutely nothing to do with the gain of the amplifier and therefore the output level of that amplifier for a given input signal.
   
  2) Without affecting the gain of the amplifier, there will be no difference in loudness between the two channels.
   
  The notion that different resistances of the mains fuses will cause one channel to be louder than the other is absurdly naive and could only come from someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about and are just making things up out of thin air.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

I have asked to find out what piece of equipment it was. Hear your opinion. Just a thought... If one channel had more resistance than the other one channel, it may have less power going to it? You reverse the fuses and the opposite happens? Sounds crazy but it does? Do you still discount the resolution of matching the fuses with the resistance to solve the problem? That is how it has been resolved.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Just a thought... If one channel had more resistance than the other one channel, it may have less power going to it? You reverse the fuses and the opposite happens? Sounds crazy but it does?


 

 Sounds crazy because it is. If you're talking about mains fuses.
   
  Quote: 





> Do you still discount the resolution of matching the fuses with the resistance to solve the problem?


 
   
  If you're talking about mains fuses, then yes, I do.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

I know this is nuts, a lot of time has been spent figuring this problem out. The goal was to let this possible problem be known.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





big poppa said:


> I know this is nuts, a lot of time has been spent figuring this problem out. The goal was to let this possible problem be known.


 

 If the "problem" was some difference in resistance of the mains fuses, then it's a "problem" in the same way that having your photograph taken is a "problem," and how placing photographs of yourself in your freezer is a "solution."
   
*Each individual human had a fundamental adverse problem imposed on their senses when they had their first photograph taken. A photographic image captures the unique identity of the subject of the photograph but imposes a significant temporal (time) asymmetrical pattern. The action of this photograph radically changed the inner symmetry of the senses of the photographed human being. Fortunately, this debilitating adverse condition is reversible.*
*To restore a significant temporal (time) symmetry to any person's senses, it is necessary to acquire one photograph which was exposed when the person was young and another photograph exposed when the person was older. Each photograph is placed, individually, into it's own clear plastic bag. The two plastic bags, each containing a spaced time photograph of the same individual, should be placed inside the freezer compartment of the domestic refrigerator. This will create a most unusual beneficial phenomenon.*
   
  http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/whatamess.html
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

The "freezer" thing again...LOL This was not a problem for me. I have all the Audio grade fuses. Know the the characteristic's on my rig. My opinions have not changed. My rig does not change for years, Still have the WA3 with Blackgates custom built as my main rig. Just pump lots and lots of new music. When I use stuff like Fuses, it is an inexpensive tweak to make my rig sound different. Do like the sound of some of them. Some are better than others. But to try them, they are cheap compared to tubes or cables for example. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## TheAttorney

Big Poppa, what was the actual measured difference in resistance between the 2 fuses?
   
  I'm curious if this a case of poor quality control by the audiophile fuse maker, or just normal variation one gets with any fuse.
   
  se is right that (moderate) changes in resistance coming into an amp's power supply shouldn't affect the amp's gain - unless that amp has a very peculiar power supply circuit.
  But it is possible that a better _anything_ in the system can give a _perceived_ increase in volume, due to lower noise floor, dynamics, etc.
  So it's possible that there could be a channel imbalance with 2 different fuses, but unlikely that this would be due to simple differences in volume.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Great. Tweak all you like. But when you claim that differences in the resistances of mains fuses changes affects the output levels of an amplifier, you're making a _technical_ claim, and in this case, one which simply holds no water and serves nothing more than to mislead others.
   
  se


----------



## BIG POPPA

Synergistic Research is coming out with fuses, just was told by a retailer I get my fuses from. I can not wait to try them.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Just picked up the Synergistic Reasearch Quantam Fuse SR20 from Revolution Power. Ken called me yesterday to let me know he got the box. Will listen to it tonight and compare it to my favorite the Furutech. Will give impressions in a few days.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Got a PM to for an opinion on the new Synergistic Research Quantum Fuses. After listening to them I found that they kinda sound like the Furutechs with bass. They do have the SR house sound. The are a little laid back with nice highs, cool mids, and great bass. 2 thumbs up. Really like them a lot. Highly recommend them.


----------



## TheAttorney

BIG POPPA, have you tried the fuse the other way round?
   
  In my very limited foray into fuses, I've recently bought a Hi Fi Tuning Supreme for my CDP. The Supreme is allegedly the best of the Gold and Silver versions combined.
  Anyway, I chose this one because it was easy to get in the UK and had the correct, very low, watt rating specified for my CDP .
   
  Most audiophile fuses are allegedly directional and some people reckon that the arrow (diode symbol in this case) should go from source of power (wall socket end) to component end.
  And some say you can't rely on the arrow and need to try both directions.
   
  So I tried both directions for fun, and found that the "correct" direction gave a slightly more forward sound. In the short test, I couldn't conclude which was better, but as I prefer a more laid back presentation, I've left the fuse in the "wrong" direction.
   
  Edit: I see now that directionality has already already been discussed in the early parts of this thread, so this is not news to some of you.


----------



## setamp

In my setup, the fuse direction in my preamp is critical.  I have been rolling a number of tube combinations in my preamp and amp and just couldn't get my soundstage to open up.  On a whim, I reversed the direction of the hi-fi tuning fuse in my preamp and the difference was amazing.  It accomplished what tube rolling could not.  I have no idea as to why this would work but it did and it wasn't subtle.


----------



## TheAttorney

A couple of months ago, I received my BHSE (high end amp for electrostatic headphones), resulting in a big jump in transparency in my system.  It has an over-kill power supply, so I did wonder whether a fuse change would make much difference. The BHSE actually has 2 mains fuses (one for live and one for neutral), so that meant double the usual cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Which in the UK would be around £70-£80 for HFT Supremes or Furutechs, or £50 for Isocleans. Not a trivial amount.
   
  But I came across a new (to me) fuse: AMR - A UK company famous(ish) for their heavy weight high end CDPs and amps, who decided to make their own fuses - because they like making their own stuff. Their marketing is refreshingly down to earth - not a hint of "quantum" or other mysterious properties. They don't have many testimonials on their site, but at least one contributor thinks the AMR fuse sounds better than all the others (well there's a surprise).
   
  But what got my attention is that the 5x20mm fuses cost just £12 each, or around 1/3rd of the price of their top rivals. So I bough a couple, total price of £26 ($40) including postage.
   
  So, what did the AMRs do to the sound? Much of what, IMO, any good power-related improvement does, which is to bring the performers/instruments/soundstage out from the mix, such that it feels a bit more like a live performance. Plus a reduction in mid/high frequency hash, such that the sound was simultaneously more detailed and yet less fatiguing. I love it when that happens.
   
  These changes are objectively small (well they must be, mustn't they?), but gave a surprisingly big increase to my musical enjoyment, out of all proportion to their cost, or my expectations. And when I swapped the stock fuses back in, the performers/instruments/soundstage slightly retreated back into the mix, resulting in a flatter, blander sound.
   
  I can't say how the AMRs compare to the other makes, and it's too much hassle to find out, but I'll guess that the AMRs are probably the best VFM, at least in the UK. Warning: the AMR's were fractionally bigger than the stock fuses, in both length and diameter. Why on earth? It took some coaxing to get the fuse tray pushed back into the BHSE.


----------



## SleepyOne

I recently installed a Synergistic Research fuse on my EC 2A3 amp and seems to get nice result, with better bass and overall things seems more correct. Obviously not night and day difference but for the cost vs gain isn't too bad, so I am happy. Whereas previously I have tried an old version (original) Hifi Tuning mains fuse but the gain was min. which I wasn't too impressed.


----------



## MattinSweden

hello all freaks !
  i use audio magic fuses in my cd transport and i wonder if i should try sr. btw big poppa you said that sr are laid back, how do you mean ?
   
   
   
   
   
   
  my email : mats.olsson@mbox397.swipnet.se


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## David Pritchard

In my Marantz SA11-S2 SACD player I found the Synergistic Research fuse to an improvement over the Isoclean and Furotech fuses. In my rig the SR fuse gave a more open sound. More detail across the frequency spectrum. The Isoclean was darker but better than stock.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Nice to hear David Pritchard. I use my Woo amp to compare fuses. Nice to get a Solid State point of view.


----------



## MattinSweden

big poppa did u order audio magic ?


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## vladimir41

Greetings to all from St. Petersburg.

 I AMR fuses, others do not know, which is better?
   
  Synergistic research quantum fuse I think to buy.
 Can you say more about the experience Synergistic Research Quantum fuse, the pros and cons.
   
  Thanks,
 Vladimir


----------



## m2man

I just added a Synergistic Research fuse to my Mjolnir. (FYI: Small slow blow 1A) I'm truely shocked that it's so easy to tell the difference in sound quality. The imaging is just great now. Probably not tube amp great, but it went from 15-20' of depth to 50-60'. Depends on the track of course, but it's a great upgrade for the cost. It is like 30 screws! Schitt did not make it easy to swap out. If you don't have a multi-meter handy the outside part of the fuse holder is the hot lead.

I also tried a HiFi-Tuning and the more carefully I matched the volume the more identical it sounded to stock.

I have 2 amps btw, so easy for me to switch back and forth 20 times....


----------



## buson160man

Quote: 





golden monkey said:


> Well, I found some Isocleans on sale, so I'm going to try one in my amp and see.  Oh, and for those saying you should rewire your house, etc. etc...you can start here, with this:
> 
> http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=64


 
    I do not have the luxury of adding a dedicated line for my system because I rent.But I have heard the benefits of a dedicated line for a stereo at a friends house a long time ago and the difference was quite noticeable.The sound from what I can remember was a lot cleaner.Of course renters like me do not usually have the luxury of altering their apartments electrical system.
   But if you have your own home this is definitely a way to improve your systems performance.Isolating your system from appliances and other devices definitely reduces rfi interferenceas well as other effects that can feed junk into the line and pollute your electricity.But fuse upgrades do work.I have tried the various hifi tuning offerings and have found improvements from all of them but at least in my setups I found the supreme models made a fair step up in performance over their lesser offerings.I have upgraded to the supreme fuses in all my components and the sound improvement was quite noticeable even though the fuses are quite steeply priced I thought the improvement was worth the expendature.I recommend getting slow blows because these fuses are not cheap.
   I find the fuse made things sound a lot cleaner.The noise level of the components were a lot lower.This enabled me to hear a lot deeper into the recordings I play back.The increase in low level information was definitely noticeable.The fuses also gave rise to a more dynamic sounding presentation.Things just sound more dynamically alive and closer to the real thing.The fuses are directional so try them both ways if you do not hear a big improvement flip them over the change should be obvious.The hifi tuning supreme fuses do work.


----------



## TheAttorney

When I was having some rewiring done to my house, I took the opportunity to install 2 dedicated spurs for my hifi. These spurs also had their own dedicated breaker box (simply because there was no more room in the main box). So far, I've been rather underwhelmed by the improvements this gave to my hifi rig's SQ. I need to do another test one day to see if I can get a more conclusive result.
   
  What I have confirmed though, is that audiophile fuses, and _carefully chosen_ Power Conditioners, provide as much benefit to a dedicated spur as they do to a main circuit.That is, a dedicated spur is an additive contribution to all the other power tweaks, rather than an alternative. TBH, I found it easier to spot the differences between fuses than I could between dedicated v main circuits, but I wouldn't say that's conclusive without me going back to doing another test of the dedicated circuit once my system has settled down.


----------



## m2man

You should note that big bar at the top of the breaker box. Everything connects to that top bar in parallel, so a dedicated line buys you nothing isolation wise. I'm sure the nice connectors and breakers will help though...

You need a fancy 0 impedance power appliance to totally separate yourself from the outside world.


----------



## Speedskater

I don't think that Iso-Clean supplies that breaker box (panel-board) anymore. In any case it appears to be a European or British spec. board.
   
  Running a dedicated, isolated (insulated) circuit does serve the purpose it was designed to do.


----------



## buson160man

I have been using various hi-fi tuning offerings and had settled on the supreme model as the fuse of choice in my set up.But when I saw reviews about the quantum fuses from synergetic research I beeing an audiophile just had to order some and try them in my system.I have not heard any synergetic research products before so this is a leap of faith.I just received my fuses today and have replaced the hifi-tuning supreme fuses in my emotiva airmotiv 6 active speakers and I fired them up.From what I read in some opinions and the reviews that the quantum fuses were better than the supreme fuse from the get go.Well so far I can not concur.Initially the supreme fuse has more space to the sound and the sound is less confined to the speaker with the supreme fuse.With the quantum the sound seems to be coming from the speakers and is definitely not as open as the supreme fuses.The bass is is also not as tight as with the supreme fuse and the sound is much more refined sounding with the supreme fuses.The sound is definitely faster with the supreme fuse and dynamics are more apparent with the hifi tuning fuses.The sound also is more forward sounding with the quantum fuses. But that is my initial impression and I have to give the fuses a good run in to be fair.I hope they will improve so the trip is worth the effort.
   I will post further opinions after I put some time on the quantum fuses.So far the score is hifi tuning supreme fuses 1 quantum fuses 0 in my set up.


----------



## TheAttorney

buson160man, please do post again after the quantums have settled in - and of course after you tried swapping fuse direction )
  I was thinking of ordering a pair to try.


----------



## buson160man

Quote: 





theattorney said:


> buson160man, please do post again after the quantums have settled in - and of course after you tried swapping fuse direction )
> I was thinking of ordering a pair to try.


 
   Well it has been several days since I put the quantum fuses in my airmotiv 6 active six speakers and my findings have not changed much I still prefer the sound of the emotiva speakers with the hifi tuning fuse supreme fuses.I was listening to some classical music tonight with the quantum fuse and on the recording there are cellos playing and something just struck me that the sound of the instrument just did not sound right ,the way a real instrument sounds.So I just slipped the hifi tuning fuse back into my airmotiv 6 active speakers and replayed the music and the sound of the cellos was way more lifelike the way cellos sound in real life.With the supreme fuse you can hear the sound of the cellos coming from the cavity of the instument like it does in real life.I find the sound of the instrument is very cardboard like with the quantum fuse you just do not hear the body of the instrument.I find the sound of the supreme fuse is much more atmospheric sounding when it comes to space and the sound of the quantum fuse is definitely more upfront. and lacking in atmosphere.I find the supreme fuse to be much more lifelike and dimensionaly lifelike in its presentaion.
    I wonder how people could prefer the quantum fuses presentation when in my set up I find the results much the opposite of what people say about the quantum fuse beeing more open and spacious.I say at least in my situation those findings are poppycock.I am going back to the supreme fuses they sound much more like real music and are a lot less clinical sounding IMHO.
    I will be returning the quantum fuses for a refund.


----------



## vegan

Thanks for the feedback on the SR fuses Burson160man 

I am looking to buy at least one fuse for my Burson Conductor (and possibly a couple more for the amp and sub). 

I am leaning towards the AMR fused right now... 

Thanks for sharing your experiences you good people


----------



## setamp

Like anything else, fuses are system dependent.  I returned SR fuses and am now using quantum liquid fuses throughout.  I found the SR fuses to sound artificial and very forward.  The liquid fuses in my rig were more relaxed and sounded real. ymmv


----------



## vegan

Hmmm... 
I've only found a couple people giving feedback on the Nano fuses - all but one positive... But wary given so few people seem to have tried them. 

Has anyone compared the Liquid Gold Nano fuses with the AMR offerings? 

I'm also curious about the $10 fuses sold on Vintage Audio Labs (eBay). Let me know if you've tried those..thanks


----------



## TheAttorney

Note that the AMR price has gone up to £15 in the UK, which is a big % increase  but still pretty good value compared to the usual suspects.
  Quote: 





vegan said:


> I am leaning towards the AMR fused right now...


----------



## BIG POPPA

Still rockin' the SR fuse.. Still my favorite at moment, then the Furutech, supreme.


----------



## vegan

Has anyone compared Synergy Hifi/Create Audio fuses with others? 

I put one in my Burson Conductor DAC. It made a significant difference (more power and resolution). 

(I bought it direct from Synergy Hifi - and told the ones sold by Valab Audio on eBay are counterfeits.). 

I put an AMR fuse into my Gallo sub. Resolution has improved. 

They are the only fuses I've bought.


----------



## negura

Hi Folks,
   
  For a while now I wanted to try a bunch of audiophile fuses but never quite got to it. Maybe I was hoping to keep it as a somewhat cheap fix for rainy days.
   
  The gods in Asgard were not with me these days and my PWD2 went dead. That in itself almost made me c***  my pants, but that's a story for another time. Once I figured out it was a blown fuse the Pandora's box was opened. So here we go.
   
  The PWD2 uses 2 x 1A SLO-BLO fuses, one for digital, one for analog. The PWD2 comes with "audiophile" fuses, which is a nice move and a statement from a trusted high end manufacturer. I am using the Audiophilleo 2 as USB/SPDIF interface as I am hearing it much cleaner and more transparent than the stock PWD2 USB. My AC power should be very clean, as I am using a good power regen and I am ultimately happy with my system being VERY transparent.
   
  Not only can I confirm hearing a very noticeable difference when changing the fuses in both my Taboo MK3 and PWD2, but it's not subtle either. The level of change is roughly equivalent with the impact of a power cable change.
   
  Either way this being my first venture into fuse rolling I put the following to the test:
  - "stock" cheap steel(?) wire fuses
  - PS Audio critical link fuses (AHP)
  - Synergistic Research Quantum Fuses SR20 (hate their product names with a passion)
   
*Impressions:*
   
*-The stock steel fuses *in comparison sound muddy, congested and lacking focus. They actually sound so bad I feel they take the DAC down a notch.
   
*-The SR20*: I feel I need to break this down over my 2 components:
   
  PWD2 (2x):
  2x SR20s: huuuge holographic soundstage, but I ultimately feel 2x these are not very natural sounding in the PWD2. They affect the soundstaging presentation. Instruments appear to sound from further away in the background.  Superb micro detail and extension. Great instrument separation. Tight bass, Airy treble. Cleanest background. Appears to lack a bit of focus compared to other high-end fuses. Where it not for the exagerrated soundstage, and I love great soundstaging, I could have settled with these.
   
  Taboo MK3 (1x): 
  1xSR20: Still superb holographic soundstage, but no longer feels exagerrated. The rest of attributes are similar as above. My favourite so far with the Taboo. It makes it more toe tapping.
   
*-The PS Audio fuses*: Great energy and slam, great instrument separation, excellent attack, natural soundstage, more body than the SR20s, great extension at both ends, great details. Could it be PS Audio tuned the DAC to sound best with these fuses? They sound very good in the Taboo MK3 but not as good as the SR20s.
   
  Right now I am running the PWD2 with one PS Audio fuse on the digital circuit and one SR20 on the analog one, which works very well. I have the HiFi Tuning Supremes and AMR fuses on the way as I have go all the way now.


----------



## Rocko1




----------



## demon321

I have to used Hifi-tuning supreme but just sold it. I have change to Infinity4power Powerhose Platinum fuse.
  It make a huge significant improvement more than Hifi-tuning supreme in every sound quality. More darker background ,3D, and great dynamic.


----------



## negura

Never heard of those before. Any links?
   
  I have the Hifi Tuning Supremes and AMR fuses in my gear and auditioning. It will be a few days of back and forth before I have a draft of impressions. I have also ordered the the AHP fuses version II and should be here in the next couple of days.


----------



## TheAttorney

Those Platinum fuses are hard to track down, but googling "infinity power platinum fuse" got some results.
   
  The platinum versions are around $100 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. But if that's too cheap for you, then what about the Palladium version at $500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







.
  Reminds me of the old joke about allowing the main component to blow first, as that will be cheaper than replacing the fuse.
   
  I wouldn't swear to these prices, just some snippets I came across. On first pass, it's hard to find a site that describes them in full detail.


----------



## negura

Yeah I'm probably not going to try quite all of them. Talking about more ridicolous prices, there's this as well: http://www.analogueseduction.net/phonosophie-fuses.html
  Never heard of it before I saw it there.


----------



## demon321

Quote: 





theattorney said:


> Those Platinum fuses are hard to track down, but googling "infinity power platinum fuse" got some results.
> 
> The platinum versions are around $100
> 
> ...


 
  The Platinum version is the higher(TOP level) level than Palladium So I think the price need to be swapped.
  It is Hong Kong  hand made Fuse and it has no official site of product. I know this fuse by the distributor suggest and dare me to compare to any fuse those have sell in the market such as Hifi-tunning, Furutech and SR20 fuse. Finally i own it one.


----------



## dvw

Quote: 





demon321 said:


> The Platinum version is the higher(TOP level) level than Palladium So I think the price need to be swapped.
> It is Hong Kong  hand made Fuse and it has no official site of product. I know this fuse by the distributor suggest and dare me to compare to any fuse those have sell in the market such as Hifi-tunning, Furutech and SR20 fuse. Finally i own it one.


 
  What makes it top of the line? Or what is the difference? Is it only the difference in material? Please compare if it's not inconvenient. There is absolutely no info on this any where. I am most curious that if they're made with platinum/Palladium or those are just product name.


----------



## demon321

Quote: 





dvw said:


> What makes it top of the line? Or what is the difference? Is it only the difference in material? Please compare if it's not inconvenient. There is absolutely no info on this any where. I am most curious that if they're made with platinum/Palladium or those are just product name.


 
  First that make it top of the line is price 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Platinum is more expensive than Palladium about 40%.
  Second in term of sound.I have no experience with Palladium. But from asking to Distributor and users  who were used Palladium they suggested it for Subwoofer and Image system.
  Because Palladium outstanding in term of power and brilliant but Platinum give overall balancing with great dynamic,detail,and clarity.
  So they suggest Platinum for sound system more than Palladium.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Had to resurrect the thread so a buddy can find it. I still read it from time to time to see if my thoughts changed. Still same rankings.


----------



## B0BBY

BIG POPPA  Saves the day.
 This site should be ongoing, as times change and so do fuses.
 Nobody wants to buy these expensive things ( for what they are !),
 based on sales headlines.


----------



## negura

After rolling a bunch myself, my number one are still the Hifi Tuning Supremes: clean, clear, great soundstage, excellent detail. Great air, treble spark, but not harsh or bright. Very good tonality and natural textures. I am using them in my DAC and power amp. 
  
 Should be noted they started from low. During the first so many hours the Hifi Tuning Supremes were quite bad compared to other fuses I have. I almost wanted to return them, but I kept at it.
  
 On another note I still don't like the SR20s - very unnatural sounding. The worst out of the expensive ones.


----------



## SleepyOne

How long are we talking about for the hifi tuning?


----------



## negura

From memory 150-200 hours.


----------



## SleepyOne

Thanks, will give that a try.


----------



## B0BBY

I don't know if there is a prescribed burn in procedure, but if them there fuses are mains voltage. It may be tempting to drop them in to some low powered appliance that's always on. Burn-in is so frustrating when you want to know if your investment payed off.
On a side note, have we got any more user's of the AMR fuses on here. I'm told they bring out the mid range more.


----------



## negura

Yes, they are a bit like that. Warmer, musical sounding, perhaps coppery sounding. I am not using it, but I can see its use in some systems, so that is why I kept it. And the price.


----------



## jamato8

I like the ceramic, vs glass fuse and sand filled. They cost a couple of dollars and are used for appliances. The sand seems to dampen any vibration that would affect the thin fuse wire. I think for minimal money you can get some audiophile sound and not spend 25 dollars or so. For equipment I am not worried about, I bypass the fuse, which is better yet.


----------



## TheAttorney

There's a new kid on the block, claiming to be top dog in the fuse world: Audio Horizon's modestly named "Platinum Reference More than a Fuse".
  
 Two reviews so far show it to trounce the usual favourites (most recent one at Positive-Feedback).
 However, at over $100, I'm personally not rushing to try one, but wondered if any of the more hardcore fuse rollers have given it a try?


----------



## blitzxgene

I just ordered a pair of airmotiv 6s speakers to go with my Direct Stream kit that ships at the end of July, and a pair of the amr fuses. I'm currently using my trusty airmotiv 4 speakers with hifi supreme tuning fuses. I'll have the 4's and 6s's in with the stock fuses and non-stock fuses for a week or two, so I can run through some comparisons. (Probably before the Direct Stream kit arrives)


----------



## buson160man

I have been a big fan of the hifi tuning fuses for some time especially the supreme fuses  . I have them in every component that I use . They do make a noticeable improvement in the performance of everything you try them in . I tried the synergetic quantum fuse and was disappointed in their sound . I returned them . I was looking to buy a couple of supreme fuses for my latest toy a recapped concept 16.5 which I bought to use exclusively as a headphone amp . But unfortunately they do not make 7amp fuses I checked furutech and they do not make a 7amp fuse either. Isoclean does fortunately so I ordered a couple for my concept 16.5 . I will relay any findings between the the stock fuse and the Isoclean fuse when I get them . Unfortunately I can not make any direct comparisons between the isoclean fuses and my hif tuning fuses .
    But I will pass on my observations about the isoclean fuses as compared to the stock fuses .


----------



## buson160man

Well I got the isoclean fuses today and I have popped them in my concept 16.5 receiver . I will have to put some time on them before I make any observations about their performance in the 16.5 .
    Will be posting observations when I feel the fuses are broken in sufficiently. The concept uses two 7 amp fuses for its output .This receiver which I have nicknamed the beast is one powerful sucker for headphone use .  I am seeing now why so many people are fans of vintage receivers for headphone use . I really have not heard many if any dedicated headphone amps that sound anywhere near this powerful  And that includes a lot of really high end ones .I am now a big fan of vintage receivers for driving headphones .I have been converted I have seen ahem!!!!!!!!!!!! heard the light.


----------



## buson160man

After a good long listening session yesterday and some today I am ready to post some comments regarding the isoclean fuses . I have a concept 16.5 receiver that I am using as a dedicated headphone amp . Yesterday I replaced the two stock fuses on the output of the receiver . There are two one for each channel . I have to report the change has been very satisfying . Referring to the statements that isoclean makes with regards to the improvement they bring I have to agree they were right on the transparency, the airy spacious soundstage and the extended top and bottom octaves are all there . My concept sounds so palpable now that I can not imagine it getting much better with the parts that are in it . It is possible the sound could get better with parts upgrades and such but it sound so good now that is not going to be any time soon .
   I absolutely agree with big poppa on his assessment of the isoclean fuses they are the most transparent fuse by far compared to the ones I have tried . Which are mostly the various hifi tuning fuses . I did try a quantum fuse but I did not like the sound at all on that fuse . I returned it for a refund .The isoclean is strikingly transparent sounding and seems to be exceptionally neutral sounding without being in any sense brash with good sounding recordings . It is also is a very musical performer just as big poppa stated .And on recordings that are less than acceptable it does not add any additional artifacts that make things worse . Just total honesty.
   My concept which already was a pretty fast sounding headphone amp seems to be even faster sounding . The beast (my pet name for the concept 16.5) is sounding so good I am playing cd after cd .The isoclean is a game changer and a essential tweak to get the best out of components .
   Time for some more listening if things get better which at this point of the break in process it is hard to imagine I will make some further observations .


----------



## kazsud

buson160man said:


> After a good long listening session yesterday and some today I am ready to post some comments regarding the isoclean fuses . I have a concept 16.5 receiver that I am using as a dedicated headphone amp . Yesterday I replaced the two stock fuses on the output of the receiver . There are two one for each channel . I have to report the change has been very satisfying . Referring to the statements that isoclean makes with regards to the improvement they bring I have to agree they were right on the transparency, the airy spacious soundstage and the extended top and bottom octaves are all there . My concept sounds so palpable now that I can not imagine it getting much better with the parts that are in it . It is possible the sound could get better with parts upgrades and such but it sound so good now that is not going to be any time soon .
> I absolutely agree with big poppa on his assessment of the isoclean fuses they are the most transparent fuse by far compared to the ones I have tried . Which are mostly the various hifi tuning fuses . I did try a quantum fuse but I did not like the sound at all on that fuse . I returned it for a refund .The isoclean is strikingly transparent sounding and seems to be exceptionally neutral sounding without being in any sense brash with good sounding recordings . It is also is a very musical performer just as big poppa stated .And on recordings that are less than acceptable it does not add any additional artifacts that make things worse . Just total honesty.
> My concept which already was a pretty fast sounding headphone amp seems to be even faster sounding . The beast (my pet name for the concept 16.5) is sounding so good I am playing cd after cd .The isoclean is a game changer and a essential tweak to get the best out of components .
> Time for some more listening if things get better which at this point of the break in process it is hard to imagine I will make some further observations .




The reason they recommend replacement might be because them bloom fast.


----------



## Alfred0

negura said:


> .........
> On another note I still don't like the SR20s - very unnatural sounding. The worst out of the expensive ones.


 
 Unnatural sounding ??? Could you describe it more ???


----------



## Alfred0

buson160man said:


> ........... ........ I did try a quantum fuse but I did not like the sound at all on that fuse . I returned it for a refund .....


 
 hmmm ...  
  
 anybody had tried SR Red Fuse .. please review .. I am curious ..


----------



## TheAttorney

The SR Red fuse was recently reviewed at Positive-Feedback. The reviewer preferred it to his previous favourite Platinum "more than a fuse", which he preferred over the Supreme.
 Which makes me also curious. The Quantum fuse did seem to polarize opinion.


----------



## negura

theattorney said:


> The SR Red fuse was recently reviewed at Positive-Feedback. The reviewer preferred it to his previous favourite Platinum "more than a fuse", which he preferred over the Supreme.
> Which makes me also curious. The Quantum fuse did seem to polarize opinion.


 
  
 I bought the SR Red at a local meet as they were on discount. I am fuming due to wasting £50 on it. It is actually so bad it is not even subtle how it killed my amp's treble detail and extension. It was an What moment... and switched back a couple of times to the stock Bussman trying as usual the reverse position as well. No different. I wonder what materials they are using inside it? Straws?
  
 I did not like the SR-20s very much, because they expand the sound stage to an unnatural and constant big size, mess up imaging and it was softening transients. All of which are wrong things to have, unless one needs those specific tweaks for whatever reason. But at least these were better than stock fuses in overall clarity and did some things well.
  
 The SR Red however is a disaster sound wise in my system... Is it possible I received a "lemon"? I may not even be able to return it as with all the SR fuses they are slightly wider and get scratched as soon as inserted in the slot.
  
 I have also bought the Russs Andrews mains "Superfuse". I haven't A/B'ed this one properly yet, due to how pissed off I was with the SR Red, but first impressions were good with the Russ Andrews compared to stock fuse.


----------



## TheAttorney

Blimey! I wasn't expecting quite such a negative respose. I was close to trying one myself.
  
 Looks like you've got grounds for getting your money back - if you can be bothered with the faffing around. I'd like to hear SR's response to this. They claim to offer a money back service. From the SR website:
  
 If you haven’t already auditioned our amazing new RED fuses in your system contact an authorized Synergistic Research dealer or distributor today for a no-risk 30-day in-home trial. All SR RED Fuse values are sold with a 30-day no-risk money back guarantee. With Synergistic Research RED Fuses you have everything to gain and nothing to lose except of course yesterday’s performance robbing fuses, guaranteed!


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## negura

Many thanks for that. I have requested a return based on the SR guarantee and will revert with how it turns out as well as impressions on the Russ Andrews fuse.


----------



## setamp

negura said:


> I bought the SR Red at a local meet as they were on discount. I am fuming due to wasting £50 on it. It is actually so bad it is not even subtle how it killed my amp's treble detail and extension. It was an What moment... and switched back a couple of times to the stock Bussman trying as usual the reverse position as well. No different. I wonder what materials they are using inside it? Straws?
> 
> I did not like the SR-20s very much, because they expand the sound stage to an unnatural and constant big size, mess up imaging and it was softening transients. All of which are wrong things to have, unless one needs those specific tweaks for whatever reason. But at least these were better than stock fuses in overall clarity and did some things well.
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting.  My experience was just the opposite.  I find the SR Red to be the best fuse I have yet to hear in my ECBA.


----------



## negura

setamp said:


> Interesting.  My experience was just the opposite.  I find the SR Red to be the best fuse I have yet to hear in my ECBA.


 
  
 - Did it need a long burn-in?
 - And did it sound night and day different after burn-in, resolving the nasty treble rolloff I've been hearing?
  
 I am struggling to commit to put it back in my amp.


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## setamp

For me, it sounded good right out of the box and continues to improve in realism, air and soundstage depth.  I think fuses are like power cables - very system dependent.


----------



## negura

Must be. I am using it in a Furutech aftermarket UK mains plug, if it helps anyone. I use the cable to power my KGSSHV.


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## kazsud

negura said:


> Many thanks for that. I have requested a return based on the SR guarantee and will revert with how it turns out as well as impressions on the Russ Andrews fuse.



Try rotating it.


----------



## negura

That I have tried already with it granting no improvements in this case.


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## buson160man

negura said:


> I bought the SR Red at a local meet as they were on discount. I am fuming due to wasting £50 on it. It is actually so bad it is not even subtle how it killed my amp's treble detail and extension. It was an What moment... and switched back a couple of times to the stock Bussman trying as usual the reverse position as well. No different. I wonder what materials they are using inside it? Straws?
> 
> I did not like the SR-20s very much, because they expand the sound stage to an unnatural and constant big size, mess up imaging and it was softening transients. All of which are wrong things to have, unless one needs those specific tweaks for whatever reason. But at least these were better than stock fuses in overall clarity and did some things well.
> 
> ...


 

 I had similar results with the synergistic fuses myself . I returned the fuses that I tried . I have hifi tuning supreme fuses in most of my equipment but I have recently tried the isoclean fuses in my vintage receiver. I am thinking they may be better than the supreme fuses in some ways. I think they may be more open sounding and have better soundstage reproduction based on what they have done with my receiver.


----------



## negura

buson160man said:


> I had similar results with the synergistic fuses myself . I returned the fuses that I tried . I have hifi tuning supreme fuses in most of my equipment but I have recently tried the isoclean fuses in my vintage receiver. I am thinking they may be better than the supreme fuses in some ways. I think they may be more open sounding and have better soundstage reproduction based on what they have done with my receiver.


 
  
 My go-to fuses are also the Hi Fi Tuning Supremes. I really like the sound articulation, detail, speed and sound stage on the Supremes. I was hoping that the SR Red would be comparable or better, I guess also given their marketing targets Hifi Tuning directly. That assertion was obviously not the case in my experience. I am also using AHP and AMR fuses in less significant gear, but they're not on par with the HFT S.
  
 Would you say the Iso Clean are also detailed, neutral and crisp sounding fuses?


----------



## Alfred0

setamp said:


> Interesting.  My experience was just the opposite.  I find the SR Red to be the best fuse I have yet to hear in my ECBA.


 
  
 Agree, I find SR Red is neutral and musical. 
 But my friend didn't like SR fuse, he more hifi tuning supreme.


----------



## setamp

I found the hi-fi tuning supreme to be slow, rolled off and unexciting.


----------



## liamstrain

This is a joke right? 17 pages of lulz?


----------



## Alfred0

if we don"t believe fuses .. should be also supply cord/cable, power supply cap...


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## TheAttorney

I was one of the first to introduce the AMR fuse to this thread. It's main claim to fame being that it is substantially cheaper than the usual suspects. Since then, various opinions have been stated, and the consensus seems to be that the AMR is a bit warm and soft and ultimately not a match for the best out there.
  
 I haven't directly compared models to agree or not with that consensus, but the following observation got me thinking:
  
 A while back, I replaced my BHSE's AC power input stock fuses with AMRs with total success:  i.e. a subtle all round improvement with absolutely no down side.
  
 More recently, I did the same swap at the other end of the amp: there are two fuses that help protect the amp from tube failure. I don't know the design details, so not sure if this location is pure DC or signal modulated, but whatever, it's not mains AC.  When I first swapped in the AMRs, I got a mixed result: the sound did get a bit too smooth and the improvement over stock was not clear cut. Then I changed the fuse direction and the system just woke up with a more dynamic "live" and detailed sound. This was clearly better, but there was a partial downside in that it slightly exacerbated bright recordings - completely contrary to AMR's warm reputation. I like my hifi tweaks to have no downside at all, i.e. the dynamics without the brightness. So I was considering the new SR Red, as the pf review said all the right words, but negura's experience has caused me to pause.
  
 So, any suggestions as to what to try? I realise I'll probably get 8 conflicting recommendations 
  
 I should add that it is particularly important for the fuse to meet its spec in this location. E.g. it must be fast blow, which is not an available option with some models (including AMRs, so I was only trying them as a temporary test). The reported comments about UL conformance are a real concern, although not the whole story.


----------



## negura

It also depends on your gear. The KGSSHV is slightly warm sounding with outstanding bass. I use the HFT Supreme in the amp and Russ Andrews Superfuse in the mains chord. They are both very detailed fast and transparent. I personally dont really like slow and warm fuses no matter of the gear.

You could try the AHP fuses. They are middle of the way imo. PS Audio uses them in their Dacs.

I've tried again the SR Red fuse last night, this time in my DAC mains plug. I still do not like it. Decent mids, BIG soundstage, but that's it.

I'd rate my preference in mains plug fuses like this:
Russ Andrews >> Bussman stock* = Hifi Tuning Gold >= SR Red

On my speaker gear:
Hifi Tuning Gold > SR Red

*I have two of these from Furutech plugs, so I don't know if they did anything fancy to them like plating/cryo/wtvr. But this fuse sounds very decent. That is as opposed to other stock fuses which sound dirty and generally horrible.

Internal to device fuses:
Hi Fi Tuning Supreme > AHP > AMR > SR-20 > stock clear glass fuse

A separate finding is that the more transparent the system is, the higher the impact fuses make. My experience is the same with both my headphones and speakers rigs. It is actually ridiculous that fuses have this impact on gear this expensive.


----------



## vegan

Great to get your take on fuses Negura 
I really appreciate everyone who has shared their experiences with fuses.

*Synergy Hifi* 
I've only tried one fuse in the Conductor - the Synergy Hifi fuse. They're a Chinese company that cost Euro$24. (The US$10 'Create Audio' fuses on the VALAB ebay site are knock offs based on these.) They made a substantial difference to the stock fuse. i was very happy with the improvements in resolution and dynamics. But obviously, without other comparisons, that means bugger all. I wasn't able to see much feedback online, so may well not be well regarded. Synergy Hifi's tubes were favourably reviewed on a few sites like 6Moons, so that gave me some confidence to try.. So if anyone is looking to try something different, I'd say give them a whirl. 

http://www.synergyhifi.eu/#a_hififuse

*AMR*
I was happy with the AMR fuses I put into my Galllo sub and just recently, my monoblocks (SS). But again - I haven't compared them with any other after-market fuse. 

*Burn-in*
I didn't notice any changes with the Synergy Hifi fuse in the Conductor. But the AMR fuses in the monoblocks do seem to need some burn in time (hard to be sure given software changes).


----------



## Black Stuart

Why on earth do Brits carry on using the fused 3 pin plugs, they just are'nt nec. at all. I moved to the mainland over 13 years ago and bought myself a really cheap dis.block from Lidls. It out-performs a very expensive UK dis-block. Nobody in Europe has any problems using Schuko plugs which have no fuses. Why do you want to go on using fuses especially expensive ones, just crazy.
  
 As to using Russ Andrews hugely over priced components - LOL.


----------



## Lenni

black stuart said:


> As to using Russ Andrews hugely over priced components - LOL.


 
 X2
  
 Russ Andrews = snakeoil saleman


----------



## negura

black stuart said:


> Why on earth do Brits carry on using the fused 3 pin plugs, they just are'nt nec. at all. I moved to the mainland over 13 years ago and bought myself a really cheap dis.block from Lidls. It out-performs a very expensive UK dis-block. Nobody in Europe has any problems using Schuko plugs which have no fuses. Why do you want to go on using fuses especially expensive ones, just crazy.
> 
> As to using Russ Andrews hugely over priced components - LOL.


 
  
 Yes fused mains plugs are silly. I have considered switching to an EU block for audio, but it's not like the EU plugs are a perfect solution. How do you ensure you're not plugging out of phase?


----------



## SleepyOne

You check the wire position on your plug and your main. Also you could use tester to check the wire position. Make sure you mark the side with red wire once you worked it out.


----------



## Alfred0

theattorney said:


> .............
> When I first swapped in the AMRs, I got a mixed result: the sound did get a bit too smooth and the improvement over stock was not clear cut. Then I changed the fuse direction and the system just woke up with a more dynamic "live" and detailed sound. This was clearly better, but there was a partial downside in that it slightly exacerbated bright recordings - completely contrary to AMR's warm reputation. I like my hifi tweaks to have no downside at all, i.e. the dynamics without the brightness. So I was considering the new SR Red, as the pf review said all the right words, but negura's experience has caused me to pause.
> ...........


 
  


negura said:


> It also depends on your gear. The KGSSHV is slightly warm sounding with outstanding bass. I use the HFT Supreme in the amp and Russ Andrews Superfuse in the mains chord. *They are both very detailed fast and transparent. I personally dont really like slow and warm fuses no matter of the gear*.
> 
> You could try the AHP fuses. They are middle of the way imo. PS Audio uses them in their Dacs.
> 
> ...


 
 ooohh  that's your personal taste, you like silver  which fast detail transparent. Others perhaps will like SR because more warm, holographic, big soundstage. It depend the system and taste.


----------



## negura

alfred0 said:


> ooohh  that's your personal taste .... you like silver  ... fast detail transparent .. others perhaps will like SR because more warm, holographic,  ....


 
 I thought that was made very clear. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Fortunately warm and holographic come with cheaper materials, like copper. That's one pragmatic reason why I don't get why the SR cost what they do. AMR on the other hand, fair game within that price range.


----------



## Black Stuart

negura,
 sleepy one gave you an answer that should relieve any doubts you have. Some years ago now a new design of Schuko was introduced, the old ones were an absolute bugger to wire up. It really is a no brainer. If you make the move don't get conned into buying an expensive dis-block. A dis-block has a very simple function and that's it. The LAT International dis-block I bought did'nt even have any surge control built into it whereas the Lidls cheap as chips one did and the spring clips were copper, which I protected from oxidisation with a dilute coating of Pro-Gold, absolutely no need to use it straight, just dilute with alcohol..
  
 I should add that I'm definately one who has heard the difference that good fuses make. Thanks to a Dutch friend who made me a present of 2 Furutech fuses some years ago.
  
 Also I must introduce something that many will disagree with - the higher the fuse rating the better your gear will sound but you must have the expertise to be able to measure the voltages in your amp and to know absolutely that it is stable in operation, you'd be surprised how much commercial gear does'nt fulfill that criteria.
  
 I've always been surprised that all those who moan about the 'dirty mains' don't do something about it namely buy yourself a BPS - balanced power supply which by it's function cancels out noise and gives protection from power surges - IMO this is where building a sound system should start. There is a company in the south where you can buy one ITRO £220 or you can buy a Russ Abbot one or similar in the US for 10 times that price.


----------



## negura

I've used a balanced PSU in the past, but it was mainly for the purpose of voltage conversion powering US equipment. Once I had the equipment rewired to EU voltage and plugged directly into the mains I cannot say I noticed a drop in quality, but there are several variables here.
  
 Where would you buy balanced PSUs anyway? 
  
 This is where I bought from in the past and they make euro plugs models too:
 http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced_power_supply/standard_balanced_power_supplies/BPS1506/
 http://www.airlinktransformers.com/balanced_power_supply/standard_balanced_power_supplies/BPS1502/


----------



## Black Stuart

First I must apologise to Russ Abbot who is a very good comedian and not a snake oil salesman.
  
 Negura - that's the company - Airlink Transformers. Sadly I see their prices have rocketed. As their BPS gained popularity so they have raised their prices, an all too common practice in rip-off Britain. If I can I buy in the US or the far East and I never get ripped off on shipping charges.
  
 I should be building my own house within 2 years and whether I get connected to EDF or go off-grid I shall be using batteries with a pure sine wave inverter that also has voltage regulation, not only very good for my sound system but for all electrical equipment.
  
 I did buy from Hong Kong a small populated PCB that like a BPS cancels out any noise as well surge control. I hav'nt had a chance to use it yet but I see no reason why it should'nt work. Just connect mains cable at both ends. Ive checked out the components used and they are correct.


----------



## negura

Meanwhile this could be interesting, surprisingly this is an American website, and nowhere I could find it in the UK:
  
 http://www.vhaudio.com/fuses.html#hififuses
 Furutech's T series fuses are made with similar construction as the TF series above, but use a slo-blo pure silver conductor, rhodium plated contacts, and has been cryogenically treated and demagnetized by Furutech. Dimensions are 6.4mm X 25mm. Fits Furutech U.K. male AC connectors.


----------



## Black Stuart

Hi negura,
 silly money and I would'nt touch anything with rhodium plating a completely hyped metal with conductivity way below copper, gold or silver. I once wasted money trying rhodium plated plugs, yeilding a brittle and slightly distorted sound. There are so many products that set out to fleece joe the punter. The problem is that so many are willing to believe what they are told, a bit like religion and politics.
  
 I once bought into some Dutch hand made silver foil caps that were an outrageous price, only to read a thread on diyaudio about K73-16 Russian mil. spec caps. The silver foil caps were very,very good but for absolute neutrality and a capacitor version of Z foils they cannot be beat. All the useful values have now disappeared and they literally were pennies and their construction was way above caps produced in the west. I think I will stick with the Furutechs I have been using for a few years now.


----------



## TheAttorney

So, Black Stuart, you've been impressed with Furutech fuses in the past, but now are saying Furutech are snake oil merchants because they use rhodium plating?
  
 Furutech give users the choice of gold or rhodium plating on many of their plugs and sockets. Some users prefer one over the other, there doesn't appear to be a clear winner, although the consensus is that gold gives a warmer sound. I'll reserve my own judgment until I've tried them myself.
  
 Most of the posters here have already got the memo about expectation bias - many times. The variety of opinions posted here show that we are quite capable of making up our own minds irrespective of marketing hype or skeptics trolling.
  
 FWIW, I've been told that the harder rhodium plating can be made thinner than for gold, which negates the resistance issue. I don't know if that's a factor or not, but is an example of not basing decisions on simple electrical theory. It's the end result that counts.


----------



## froger

Just got a SR red fuse last week, swapped out a supreme fuse for my DAC and I thought the results was unsatisfying. First the sound became thinner and the vocals were pushed back. Overall, the sound was less organic and less musical. Then I swapped back the Supreme fuse to my DAC and put the SR red for my AMR Dp777 which I use for preamp and out came the original AMR gold fuse. I was stunned by the change. The sound became organic, realistic and musical again, but in spades! After hearing the latest sound, I know I am done with the fuses asI just love it. From my experience, I think one simply just have to experiment the fuses in their own set up to find out what they like which is probably why there are so many polarized reviews. It has been a fun ride


----------



## Black Stuart

The Attorney,
 sorry to burst your balloon but conductivity still applies regardless of the microns involved, it's basic science and many are influenced by snake oil salemen who otherwise would go out of business.
  
 A fuse is no different from any other component it should not influence or change any information directly or indirectly - unless you want it to, which is fine if that's what you want - I have no time for the fascist style police.
  
 There are those who will pay loads of money for RCA/XLR  plugs but what is their actual function - to connect one piece of equipment to another with the least interference with the signal they are conveying. Superb engineering is irrelevant if this function is achieved simply and economically. likewise a sexy appearance - unless you listen to your music from  behind the equipment rack.
  
 I like those original Furutechs because they are made using sound scientific principles and it can be heard. It is easy to become very anal about such things, now I just enjoy the music. To each their own.


----------



## TheAttorney

I could no longer resist the temptation to try for myself the controversial SR Red fuse.
  
 So, after first checking with the UK supplier (analogueseduction) that I could return the ones I didn't like, I've ordered a pair of Reds and also Supremes.
 So for the first time, I'll be able to directly compare audiophile fuses against each other: The Reds vs Supremes vs my existing AMRs. Will report back in a couple of weeks or so.
  
 I'll tell you what though, when I saw the total price of these posher fuses, gulp, they damn well better be better than the AMRs!


----------



## negura

Just for reassurance, my full refund on the SR-Red went through successfully. The dealer insisted I let it burn-in which I had obliged, and then returned it.


----------



## souljam

negura said:


> Many thanks for that. I have requested a return based on the SR guarantee and will revert with how it turns out as well as impressions on the Russ Andrews fuse.


 
 Hi I was wondering if you got to check out that Russ andrews fuse yet & your opinions on it?


----------



## souljam

Hi people of sound, Ive entered the world of Hifi audio fuses prabably an obsessive expensive mistake Im sure! lol So far Ive tried the Hifi gold tunning fuse & the Iso Clean. I thought the Hifi gold tunning was to smooth/soft….it had a nice sound but lacked midrange.treble sparkle, where as the Iso clean has this with ease & I generally like it to what it has done to my sound. Im also thinking of buying the Russ Andrews fuse as Im curious about this one, I cant seem to find much reviews or opinions on this one but I like what it says on the website so im thinking about giving it a shot! Anyone tried the Russ Andrews thoughts & opinions compared to  the Iso clean?  Cheerz guys!


----------



## BIG POPPA

What are the impressions on the Synergistic Research RED fuses. Have not got them yet


----------



## setamp

big poppa said:


> What are the impressions on the Synergistic Research RED fuses. Have not got them yet


 

 I prefer SR Reds to the Audio Magic and Audio Horizons Platinum fuses.


----------



## TheAttorney

Further to my earlier post, I did compare SR Red vs Supreme vs AMR in the Output of my BHSE Power Supply.
  
 There were other changes going on during the trial period, so I wouldn't class my impressions as definitive, but FWIW the Reds won easily, making the sound clearer, more natural, with with a larger soundstage with more precise images. The advantages were so strong over the Supremes that I didn't really bother much further into working out where the Supremes were vs AMRs, both seemed in the same ballpark with each other compared to the Reds. 
  
 The Reds did have reduced upper frequencies compared to the Supremes. I didn't have the time nor inclination to work out if this was them being just ultra refined, or if there was an actual reduction in upper frequency response. So the Reds not recommended for those wanting a more forward sound.
  
 I'm not even through the burn in phase yet, so I don't know what may change with time, but I made my decision early and the Supremes were sent back (and I got my money back as the supplier had promised).


----------



## negura

Thanks for the impressions. Having recently bought another Supreme for my Theta DAC, I utterly disliked it for the first few days that I almost took it out. Well actually I did, but I put it back as I was reminded by my previous experience with a HFT in my amplifier. After a couple of weeks which was a couple of nights ago, I compared the HFT again with the stock fuse, and the HFT is way better, as it should be. It is simultaneously detailed, clear and very musical with better layering. The highs are no longer harsh, but retained the detail.
  
 This is one of the big fuses, 32mm and for whatever reason considerably more expensive. I would have returned it immediately if it sounded like at first.


----------



## TheAttorney

I came across a comment somewhere that the Reds require above average burn-in, 150-200 hours. 
 With a tube based amp, that would take many weeks (if not months) to complete for me. It could be, that after that length of time, my opinion of these fuses would have changed, but I just couldn't wait that long. Much easier if they can be left on continuously.
  
 BTW, during the trial, I was following the feeding frenzy HOTing up in the Sound Science forum, which didn't put SR in a good light on another of their products, but in the end I had to go with what my ears were telling me.


----------



## BeatsWork

I'm on the rational-skeptic end of the spectrum i.e. willing to try something for myself after reading all the scientific/experience based critiques - if the price is right. So for the heck of it I purchased some silver fuses and some generic ceramic sand filled fuses. On the latter I was thinking of the claims that fuse geometry impacts vibration imparted by AC cycle. The sand should act as a damper right? Again just
 satisfying my urge to tinker


----------



## TheAttorney

So, BeatsWork, you're trying to apply rational thought to audiophile fuses. Are you mad?!?
 Everybody knows that the only law of physics that applies to audiophile fuses is the Law of Unintended Consequences.
  
 But if you must persist in rational thought, you should consider if these fuses have UL or CE safety approval.
 Personally, I'd avoid sand filled fuses because this will almost certainly affect the temperature and therefore the burn rate of the fuse wire. Unless the manufacturer has taken this into account, the chances are that the fuse will fail at a different point than specified.
  
 Here ends my only rational thought for today.


----------



## BeatsWork

theattorney said:


> So, BeatsWork, you're trying to apply rational thought to audiophile fuses. Are you mad?!?
> Everybody knows that the only law of physics that applies to audiophile fuses is the Law of Unintended Consequences.
> 
> But if you must persist in rational thought, you should consider if these fuses have UL or CE safety approval.
> ...


 

 I absolutely checked the specs for fast-acting ceramic and only buy gear with UL/CE after a bad experience <insert smoking emoticon>. Agree you don't value the certification until well... you do.


----------



## audiomaniac11

Hello Guys,
  
 I have some experience with Padis (Furtech) rhodium-plated fuses and with HFT gold.
  
 I have to admit that the performance of Padis' in my system is truly amazing. It revealed so many details and created a spacious sound scene that I've kept them.
  
 HFT fuses, on the other hand, proved to be on the rather warm side of sound, which was to much for me.
  
 I'm now keen to try SR RED.
  
 Cheers


----------



## setamp

One caveat with SR fuses is they (in my experience are quick to blow).  I tried the SR20 fuses in a couple of places and each one blew.  I have since replaced them with Audio Horizons fuses.  I tried a SR Red fuse which I loved in my system.  I used a 3.15a fuse in a 2.5a application to be safe.  It lasted ~ 3 months.  That's it for me.


----------



## TheAttorney

beatswork said:


> I absolutely checked the specs for fast-acting ceramic and only buy gear with UL/CE after a bad experience <insert smoking emoticon>. Agree you don't value the certification until well... you do.


 
 Was your bad experience with an audiophile fuse that didn't fail when you think it should have done?
  


> One caveat with SR fuses is they (in my experience are quick to blow).  I tried the SR20 fuses in a couple of places and each one blew.  I have since replaced them with Audio Horizons fuses.  I tried a SR Red fuse which I loved in my system.  I used a 3.15a fuse in a 2.5a application to be safe.  It lasted ~ 3 months.  That's it for me.


 
 So it sounds like you like the SR Reds best of all for SQ? But won't buy any more becuase they are following the SR20 trend to blow too easily?
 Which I can see would get very expensive very quickly. Did this happen on start up in each case?
  
 I wonder if you gave this story back to the supplier or SR themselves, whether they would offer a free replacement? Maybe worth a try.


----------



## negura

I had the following fuses blow so far: 1x SR20, 1x AMR, 2x AHP. No others.


----------



## setamp

My SR fuses blew on startup.  In-rush current was blamed.  Apparently every piece of equipment I own suffers from high in-rush current.......................


----------



## BeatsWork

theattorney said:


> Was your bad experience with an audiophile fuse that didn't fail when you think it should have done?




It was actually a DAC connected to an external power supply that made magic smoke. Voltage & current where precisely to spec. Worked fine for a couple hours then ... It was an adventure in to finished boards with high quality parts at bargain price ... Not so much.


----------



## Black Stuart

negura/setamp,
 inrush current is a problem that should'nt exist but does because most of the audio industry can't be assed to solve this simple problem by using soft start modules. Some companies do and the Chinese company Bada is one of them. Both my Bada PH12 h/amp and PH32 hybrid pre/amp/power amp do, so I don't have this problem. A  lot of the old valve/tube gear used soft start - of course this means that equipment lasts longer, so not good for industry profits
  
 There is a whole house solution and that is to use sealed, deep cycle batteries, followed by a pure sine wave, low frequency  inverter using a tx rather than mosfets with AVR - automatic voltage regulation - no spikes or noise via the mains and the batteries can be charged at night when the cost is much lower. I say whole house but of course this is not nec. but all electrical equipment  will operate more efficiently and last longer being fed a stable current.
  
 The only fuses needed then would be to protect when a part of a circuit goes open, certainly not mains fuses - just a thought.


----------



## TheAttorney

Overall that's a lot more blown fuses than I would have expected. In decades of all sorts of hifi, I don't recall EVER suffering a blown fuse.
 Luckily (touch wood) my 4-fuse BHSE has a soft start function and no issues in its first year (touch wood again and cross fingers and toes).
  
 I suppose equipment designers have to compromise when specifying fuse ratings. Need to be low enough to provide the safety net in normal use, yet high enough to handle start up rush. 
  
 On another forum. when someone complained to HFT that their fuses blew too readily, the answer was that the HFTs are built to tighter tolerences. They comntinued that UL standards allow for a very wide tolerance range that the stock manufacturers take advantage of. I'm personally not convinced by that answer, but it's food for thought. I'd be more convinced if HFT did get their fuses UL or CE certified. Germans are usually good at that sort of detail.


----------



## zachchen1996

Has anyone compared the Audio Magic Premier Bees Wax Super, Synergistic Research Red Quantum, and Hifi-Tuning Supreme? Trying to decide which one to get for my studio monitors.


----------



## amalgamist

Can anyone recommend a place to buy AMR fuses ?


----------



## TheAttorney

It would help if you stated which country you're from 
  
 In the UK, I get mine from analogueseduction.net, largely because they have a good selection of different makes, including most of the usual suspects.


----------



## BIG POPPA

More fuse opinions coming shortly


----------



## TheAttorney

So Big Poppa, 2 weeks have gone by, that's a lot of popcorn...


----------



## BIG POPPA

Yeah, a little tied up


----------



## vert

Audio Magic Beeswax fuse.
  
 Jerry at Audio Magic employs techniques to stop the fuse from vibrating.
  
 Whatever he's doing it's working.
  
 I have everything on a Stillpoints rack and the fuse (installed in my DAC) was a huge step up in resolution, musicality, and ease.
  
 It removes the grit and scratchiness that we're all accustomed to hearing.
  
 It's just a phenomenal upgrade and the highest bang for buck I've experienced.


----------



## HedgeHog

I tried one HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse in my Classe Audio SSP-800 to see what all the fuss is about and I have to say I can hear a difference.  More opened and detailed.  Then I tried swapping direction of said fuse and, again, there was an audible difference.  Weird.  Both ways are good but one centers the image more and the other way gives a perceived wider soundstage.  I did this several times and it was pretty consistent.
  
 I was so impressed I ordered more fuses for 3 of my amps (1 x CA-5200 and 2 x CA-M400).  I heard no difference.   The pre/pro still was audibly improved but the power amps didn't do much.
  
 I also swapped out all my fuses (all with the HiFi Tuning Supremes) on the Pathos Classic One Mk III integrated (5 or 7 fuses...can't recall).  Again, not much difference.  Should have just stuck with the pre/pro and saved.
  
 YMMV.
  
 -H


----------



## vert

hedgehog said:


> I also swapped out all my fuses (all with the HiFi Tuning Supremes) on the Pathos Classic One Mk III integrated (5 or 7 fuses...can't recall).  Again, not much difference.  Should have just stuck with the pre/pro and saved.


 
  
 I've only swapped fuses on DACs and CD players and the difference was always immediate and there was no going back to the stock fuse.
  
 Easily the highest bang for the buck upgrade.


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

vert said:


> Audio Magic Beeswax fuse.
> 
> Jerry at Audio Magic employs techniques to stop the fuse from vibrating.
> 
> Whatever he's doing it's working.


 
 I find the Jupiter Beeswax capacitors very musical, and there are companies out there offering Beeswax inductors, so it doesn't surprise me that the beeswax fuse offers a sonic benefit.
  

  
 My only concern is you get one of these fancy fuses and it ends up not blowing. I build plenty of gear and I still stick to the 50 cent fuses because they're tried and true, perhaps if the fuse manufacturers offered some safety insurance/guarantee that they'd break when overdrawn. What do you guys think?
  
 I'm thinking I may build a few beeswax / paraffin cables to experiment, that should be interesting.


----------



## dmbr

Erm....newbie alert, but...fuses?


----------



## vert

> Originally Posted by *HiGHFLYiN9* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> I build plenty of gear and I still stick to the 50 cent fuses because they're tried and true, perhaps if the fuse manufacturers offered some safety insurance/guarantee that they'd break when overdrawn. What do you guys think?


 
  
 Only problem is you are giving up a lot of performance using those 50 cent fuses.


----------



## TheAttorney

highflyin9 said:


> My only concern is you get one of these fancy fuses and it ends up not blowing. I build plenty of gear and I still stick to the 50 cent fuses because they're tried and true, perhaps if the fuse manufacturers offered some safety insurance/guarantee that they'd break when overdrawn.


 
 AMR and Furutech provide formal safety approvals, e.g. AMR has at least 4 approvals including UL and CE (which from memory is for US and EU respectively). As AMR is also quite low cost, that's a good start to cover all bases. If you notice the improvement in that one then be aware that other makes have still better SQ, but sadly most don't have the formal approvals - this has already been discussed in greater length in this thread.


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

vert said:


> Only problem is you are giving up a lot of performance using those 50 cent fuses.


 
 Well my thought was if you aren't getting adequate protection from a fuse, then you might as well just have a wire with no protection, as a straight wire is better than a $200 fuse that doesn't break when it needs to.... although one or multiple $200 fuses breaking would be enough to piss in anyone's Cheerios.
  
 Quote:


			
				TheAttorney said:
			
		

> AMR and Furutech provide formal safety approvals, e.g. AMR has at least 4 approvals including UL and CE (which from memory is for US and EU respectively). As AMR is also quite low cost, that's a good start to cover all bases.



  
 Great to know, I'll likely try the AMR as a test run, see how it goes. $20 might as well be 10 cents in this hobby


----------



## BIG POPPA

highflyin9 said:


> > Well my thought was if you aren't getting adequate protection from a fuse, then you might as well just have a wire with no protection, as a straight wire is better than a $200 fuse that doesn't break when it needs to.... although one or multiple $200 fuses breaking would be enough to piss in anyone's Cheerios


 
 What are the 200.00 dollar fuses you speak of?


----------



## HiGHFLYiN9

big poppa said:


> What are the 200.00 dollar fuses you speak of?



The beeswax fuses are $175, I rounded 

I assume they work perfectly well, there's just the paranoid side of me that wonders if they'd cover your equipment if there was any problem.


----------



## TheAttorney

Ok, so who's going to be the first to post impressions of the new SR Black?
 Allegedly (by SR), a bigger improvement over the Red than that was over the Quantum.
 And moving towards the same price bracket as the beeswax fuse - which means I'm not rushing in yet.
  
 When you do post, it's important to include a joke about "blacker blacks".


----------



## BiggerHead

I assume the folks doing this stuff have some expensive AC power conditioners/UPS or whatever that their gear is plugged into?  Otherwise it would really seem kind of absurd to worry about the fuse.  It just seems to me that even if one does believe that AC fuses are audible, that surely it's a better return on money to improve the power regulation( after improving it in AC until the fuse really is the biggest remaining AC issue, then if not sooner, improving the DC regulation).  I suppose a limit to this statement might exist if sufficient DC regulation to remove this effect  required such high energy storage as to necessitate another fuse. 
  
 The the statement that "everything has a sound signature" really isn't true.   Your ipod charger has no sound signature for the power it delivered to your ipod battery before you un-plugged it, even though it was in the power path.  That's an extreme, but none of these things are in the audio path.  On the other hand, maybe someone feels the charger impacts the quality of the electrons that make it into the battery.


----------



## TheAttorney

@BiggerHead, you're making the big mistake of trying to bring common sense thought into audiophile fuses )
 You need to stop this at once - or go mad.
  
 FWIW, I do have an expensive power conditioner, and I've found that a fuse can make it's effect whether or not the Conditioner is in use, and whether or not an expensive power cord is in use. Each improvement is cumulative.


----------



## BiggerHead

You have a point.  It's definitely true that there are many things that aren't in the sound path that make my music sound better (more enjoyable).  Then there is the famous coat hanger wire AB test.  I suspect I couldn't tell the coat hanger from a high dollar speaker wire in a blind AB test, and I think I have far better than average ears.  On the other hand, in my living room in plain sight, I'm certain a coat hanger speaker wire would sound like cr@#.  When I was younger and more poor, it probably would have sounded great though.  And maybe the fuse thing is even real.. ie maybe there is a rational explanation.  It sure doesn't seem like it to me, but I haven't tried it either (and probably won't).


----------



## bassboysam

I've found that systems wired to electricity generated by coal power plants sound warmer than gas or nuclear plants. gas has the most air and soundstage while nuclear power gives off a very fun V signature.

over the next few months I'm going to A/B some renewable power sources.


----------



## BiggerHead

bassboysam said:


> I've found that systems wired to electricity generated by coal power plants sound warmer than gas or nuclear plants. gas has the most air and soundstage while nuclear power gives off a very fun V signature.
> 
> over the next few months I'm going to A/B some renewable power sources.


 
  
 Now this gets interesting.  People say you can't generate enough power with solar panels for your home, but you could generate enough for your stereo(for my stereo at least).  And you could make _everything_ out of rhodium plated platinum wires/switches, because it's all in your control (except for the sun, darn, might be too warm and bright for some).   Sounds like a business opportunity.


----------



## bassboysam

biggerhead said:


> Now this gets interesting.  People say you can't generate enough power with solar panels for your home, but you could generate enough for your stereo(for my stereo at least).  And you could make _everything_ out of rhodium plated platinum wires/switches, because it's all in your control (except for the sun, darn, might be too warm and bright for some).   Sounds like a business opportunity.




I'm sure you can tailor the sound to your liking by changing your latitude. Arizona sun would sound very different from say a Germany sun.


----------



## Black Stuart

As so much in audio, it makes me laugh that the very energy, electricity needed to power systems is almost totally neglected, no ignored and the idiots start moaning - there's nothing I can do, yes there is.
  
 In the UK right now property is a crazy price, to give yourself totally clean power and a voltage that  will be + or - 1%, of 220 or 230V just invest in cheap deep cycle golf cart or more expensive sealed for life batteries and a pure sine wave inverter with automatic voltage regulation. The whole thing need'nt cost more than £1500 and that means that all your electrical equipment can receive clean regulated voltage with no threat of surges.
  
 Then use your own personal choice of fuses. You could cheapskate and buy a BPS - balanced power supply but it cannot give the quality of the above and only for your sound system.
  
 In the UK, so many idiots stay with the fused plugs when they can safely ditch this rubbish and use Shuko plugs and dis. blocks.


----------



## BiggerHead

But it's not totally neglected.  There is quite a bit of attention put into the DC regulation in the amps themselves. I don't think there is any practical limit to how well you can do this on the DC side.  The question is is it cheape(for the same sound of course)  to do some of it on the AC side? Isn't it a little silly to charge a dc battery, then make into AC, and then plug it into an AC/DC converter/regulator (inside your amp maybe)?  Isn't less more in audio?  Once you have a battery, why not skip the AC and use good DC-DC converters?  Ok you probably get some switching noise, but I guess that can be filtered too (and maybe a digital sine wave generator has that too).  Just get bigger capacitors.
  
  
 I assume you charge your batteries when you're not listening to the stereo.


----------



## setamp

I have found Alan Maher's fuse wraps to work quite well in my setup.  They improve even "audiophile" fuses.  The wraps can be a bit tricky as they add bulk to your fuse and create a tight fit in some fuse holders but I have found they work to reduce noise and improve micro dynamics.  They take some time to burn in - how this happens with a wrap i don't know, but my system went through clearly audible phases until settling down in about a week.  At $12.5 /wrap they may give you sufficient improvement that you can keep your standard fuses and be happy.


----------



## Edoardo93

Does anyone knows the issue linked with the "going up in smoke" of the DarkVoice 336? is this a problem of many items or just a separate "case"?


----------



## johnjen

I just found this thread thanks to Big Poppa…

I too have been using SR20's and their Red fuses in my amps and dac.

I see them as a must have solution to the fuse as 'choke point' idea I adhere to.

The difference was quite remarkable, as I too originally figured a fuse, is a fuse, is a fuse…

This was yet another aspect of, and further motivation to continue, my pursuit of experimentation and investigation into ac power delivery tweaks.

I would also recommend using the WAQy chips on the fuses as well.
They work well together.

JJ


----------



## BiggerHead

Fuse is a choke point?  Are you saying fuses are too resistive? Cause too much voltage drop?  Enough to under-power the amp?


----------



## johnjen

In my research concerning what fuses are and do, I've found that it is not just about resistance.
There is a dynamic relationship between the internal resistance and the current flow capability as the fuse reacts to the changing amount of energy that passes thru the fuse.

The current doesn't pass thru in a continual flow, rather it passes thru in surges or pulses into our audio gear.
This is true for all diode bridge based power supplies.

This pulsing means that when the power supply calls for current to flow the fuse 'reacts' and tends to limit the amount of current it will allow thru at any given moment.

This is the 'choke point' where instead of allowing as much power to pass 'freely' into the transformer the energy tends to be restricted during the peak of the flow.

I'll go into more detail in a post in the cookbook thread in the future as it tends to get complicated fairly quickly.

JJ


----------



## BiggerHead

This is fully describable by the voltage drop across the fuse, and completely measureable and non magical and yes it's called resistance.  Even if you're saying a fuse is a non-linear resistor on short time scales, which is nonsense and also measureable,  that doesn't change the fact that it's the AC side of a DC regulator which is designed to stabilize its output against input fluctuations, fluctuations that come from a bunch more important things than this fuse.  Either you have a lousy power supply for your amp (AC/DC converter) and should spend the extra cash on that instead, or your fuse is SERIOUSLY underspecced, enough that's it's cause huge voltage drops, which by the way, would mean it should be blown.
  
 I'm sure the rest of the religion is quite complicated.


----------



## BiggerHead

oh and never mind that so long as the amp is in class A mode, the power demand on it isn't even changing.


----------



## johnjen

I see…

JJ


----------



## Speedskater

biggerhead said:


> This is fully describable by the voltage drop across the fuse, and completely measureable and non magical and yes it's called resistance.  Even if you're saying a fuse is a non-linear resistor on short time scales, which is nonsense and also measureable,  that doesn't change the fact that it's the AC side of a DC regulator which is designed to stabilize its output against input fluctuations, fluctuations that come from a bunch more important things than this fuse.  Either you have a lousy power supply for your amp (AC/DC converter) and should spend the extra cash on that instead, or your fuse is SERIOUSLY underspecced, enough that's it's cause huge voltage drops, which by the way, would mean it should be blown.
> I'm sure the rest of the religion is quite complicated.


 
 Not only is it measurable, Bob Cordell in his book "Designing Audio Power Amplifiers" did measure it. Turns out that it's 0.0033% THD at 20Hz and even smaller at higher frequencies.


----------



## johnjen

For those who would like to learn more about fuses, their design and how they respond to 'normal' power demands, here is a link to a few very interesting aspects of fuse performance.
These particular aspects of fuse design are found on pages 7 and 8 and 10 of the Littelfuse catalog.

http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/product_catalogs/littelfuse_fuse_catalog.pdf.pdf

Resistance is the first aspect to pay attention to…
*"RESISTANCE: The resistance of a fuse is usually an insignificant part of the total circuit resistance. Since the resistance of fractional amperage fuses can be several ohms, this fact should be considered when using them in low-voltage circuits. Actual values can be obtained by contacting Littelfuse.

Most fuses are manufactured from materials which have positive temperature coefficients, and, therefore, it is common to refer to cold resistance and hot resistance (voltage drop at rated current), with actual operation being somewhere in between.

Cold resistance is the resistance obtained using a measuring current of no more than 10% of the fuse’s nominal rated current. Values shown in this publication for cold resistance are nominal and representative. The factory should be consulted if this parameter is critical to the design analysis.

Hot resistance is the resistance calculated from the stabilized voltage drop across the fuse, with current equal to the nominal rated current flowing through it. Resistance data on all Littelfuse products are available on request. Fuses can be supplied to specified controlled resistance tolerances at additional cost."*


But there is a measure of a fuses performance called I2t
To quote the section in the Littelfuse catalog…
*"I2t is a measure of the energy required to melt the fusing element and is expressed as “Ampere Squared Seconds” (A2 Sec.)"*

Here are the pertinent sections,
*"DERIVATION OF NOMINAL MELTING I2t: 
Laboratory tests are conducted on each fuse design to determine the amount of energy required to melt the fusing element. This energy is described as nominal melting I2t and is expressed as “Ampere Squared Seconds” (A2 Sec.).

A pulse of current is applied to the fuse, and a time measurement is taken for melting to occur. If melting does not occur within a short duration of about 8 milliseconds (0.008 seconds) or less, the level of pulse current is increased. This test procedure is repeated until melting of the fuse element is confined to within about 8 milliseconds.

The purpose of this procedure is to assure that the heat created has insufficient time to thermally conduct away from the fuse element. That is, all of the heat energy (I2t) is used, to cause melting. Once the measurements of current (I) and time (t) are determined, it is a simple matter to calculate melting I2t. When the melting phase reaches completion, an electrical arc occurs immediately prior to the “opening” of the fuse element.

Clearing I2t = Melting I2t + arcing I2t

The nominal I2t values given in this publication pertain to the melting phase portion of the “clearing” or “opening”. Alternatively the time can be measured at 10 times of the rated current and the I2t value is calculated like above."*

&

*"6. PULSES: The general term “pulses” is used in this context to describe the broad category of wave shapes referred to as “surge currents”, “start-up currents”, “inrush currents”, and “transients”. Electrical pulse conditions can vary considerably from one application to another. Different fuse constructions may not react the same to a given pulse condition. Electrical pulses produce thermal cycling and possible mechanical fatigue that could affect the life of the fuse. Initial or start-up pulses are normal for some applications and require the characteristic of a Slo-Blo® fuse. Slo-Blo® fuses incorporate a thermal delay design to enable them to survive normal start-up pulses and still provide protection against prolonged overloads. The start- up pulse should be defined and then compared to the time- current curve and I2t rating for the fuse. Application testing is recommended to establish the ability of the fuse design to withstand the pulse conditions.

Nominal melting I2t is a measure of the energy required to melt the fusing element and is expressed as “Ampere Squared Seconds” (A2 Sec.). This nominal melting I2t, and the energy it represents (within a time duration of 8 milliseconds [0.008 second] or less and 1 millisecond [0.001 second]or less for thin film fuses), is a value that is constant for each different fusing element. Because every fuse type and rating, as well as its corresponding part number, has a different fusing element, it is necessary to determine the I2t for each. This I2t value is a parameter of the fuse itself and is controlled by the element material and the configuration of the fuse element. In addition to selecting fuses on the basis of “Normal Operating Currents”, “Rerating”, and “Ambient Temperature” as discussed earlier, it is also necessary to apply the I2t design approach. This nominal melting I2t is not only a constant value for each fuse element design, but it is also independent of temperature and voltage. Most often, the nominal melting I2t method of fuse selection is applied to those applications in which the fuse must sustain large current pulses of a short duration. These high-energy currents are common in many applications and are critical to the design analysis."*

And the question to ask is what is why is a pulse of current used for a measure of a fuse and more pointedly why is 8ms chosen as the time variable for this test?

JJ


----------



## BiggerHead

JJ I don't see your point.  First, there is nothing at all in this that I didn't already know (except for the 8ms specifically) and so I'm not sure what part you wish to make a big point about.
  
 The text explains already why they try to burn the fuse fast.  If you burn it fast you know exactly how much energy it takes to burn it, because there is no time for the energy to dissipate.  Probably you can burn it in 8ms at  2 Amps squared or in 4ms at 4Amps squared, either way you put in 16 Amp^2 seconds * R Joules of energy, and I suspect so long as t is less than 8ms you'll get the same answer  whether t is 1 or 3 or 6 or 8, and that's the point.  I'd imagine they also test slower signals though.
  
 What this really relates to indirectly is a temperature elevation.  The fixed energy added in some critical sub volume times the heat capacity of that subvolume equates a temperature change, which should relate to the melting or burning, or anyway failure point of the fuse. 
  
 It is true that a fuse is more resistive than an average piece of wire, exactly because it needs to run near failure, but as the text said, a few ohms.  Even at 100 watts, at 120 v, that equates to a few volts of drop going into the amp, and so long as the amp is in class A mode it's a constant few volts.  The DC regulator should be able easily handle this. It's not like the output of the DC regulator rides up and down with the AC voltage.  There is a reason it's called a regulator.  It's buffered (capacitors) and hopefully a decent one uses internal voltage references (bandgap or whatever).  The AC mains just provide the power.


----------



## johnjen

biggerhead said:


> JJ I don't see your point.  First, there is nothing at all in this that I didn't already know (except for the 8ms specifically) and so I'm not sure what part you wish to make a big point about.
> 
> The text explains already why they try to burn the fuse fast.  If you burn it fast you know exactly how much energy it takes to burn it, because there is no time for the energy to dissipate.  Probably you can burn it in 8ms at  2 Amps squared or in 4ms at 4Amps squared, either way you put in 16 Amp^2 seconds * R Joules of energy, and I suspect so long as t is less than 8ms you'll get the same answer  whether t is 1 or 3 or 6 or 8, and that's the point.  I'd imagine they also test slower signals though.
> 
> ...


You undoubtedly noticed I didn’t address my post to you specifically, rather it was aimed at anyone who wishes to know more about fuses and how a manufacturer designs and rates them for use.
And I do appreciate a constructive discussion and exchange of opinions about topics of mutual interest.

But let me be clear here, I see the function and purpose of fuses differently than you do.
And I don’t expect you to necessarily agree with me, because your understanding will be different than mine.
And in my mind that does not make either of us right nor wrong, as this can allow any of us to learn additional aspects which contribute to our understanding.
Or not, as is each individual’s desire.

Having said all of that, I figure most think of a fuse as just a protection device and little else. After all that is what they are used for.
But that, at least to what I have come to understand, is only a portion of their total function.

And the reason we are even discussing this is because of these ‘other’ functions, many of which are not measurable in the traditional sense, ie using test gear and measuring the standard parameters, (volts, ohms, etc.), that people do notice by using different fuses in their audio gear.
IOW this entire thread is an exchange of observations that centers upon these observable but difficult to measure changes that fuses make.

My research into fuses, a small portion of which I included into my post above, has led me to a more complete understanding of the total impact that improvements to the ac power delivery system makes upon our audio systems, of which fuses are but a part.
That is why I drew attention to the pulse of current and the 8ms time window as being significant.

So I understand why, as you put it, “I don't see your point”, because the rest of my understanding wasn’t presented and why I stated “I'll go into more detail in a post in the cookbook thread in the future as it tends to get complicated fairly quickly.”

And I can also understand why, as you state “The text explains already why they try to burn the fuse fast. If you burn it fast you know exactly how much energy it takes to burn it, because there is no time for the energy to dissipate”

But, again, your understanding isn’t mine. 
Because the text didn’t explain to me “why they try to burn the fuse fast”, I came to that conclusion from an entirely different direction. One that is directly connected to that 8ms time duration used in the I^2t tests.

And your statement “What this really relates to indirectly is a temperature elevation” is another aspect where my understanding is different than yours, but probably not in the way you would think.

In my post that started this exchange I stated, “…I've found that it is not just about resistance. There is a dynamic relationship between the internal resistance and the current flow capability as the fuse reacts to the changing amount of energy that passes thru the fuse.”

To which you replied “This is fully describable by the voltage drop across the fuse, and completely measurable and non magical and yes it's called resistance.”

And to my mind if it were simply a matter of just resistance I doubt Anyone would hear differences between fuses.
But as I stated it’s a dynamic relationship of the fuse as it 'reacts’ to the changing requirements of power that passes thru the fuse, IN PULSES relating to those 8ms time windows, which is reflected in those and 8 pulses used in the I^2t testing.

Lastly let me say I don’t claim to know 'The Truth’, or all about this.
What I do claim is to have an understanding that makes sense to me, is supported by experiment and observation, some of which is observed by others as well.
And I am certainly open to bettering my understanding and enjoy pursuing this course of action at every turn.

JJ


----------



## Speedskater

If fuses are audibly different, then the differences are measurable!
 Notes:
 a] This may require a skilled engineer with the correct equipment.
 b] The opposite may not be true.
     Measurements may not always predict with humans will hear measured differences or how they may describe them.
 c] This does not apply to transducers like microphones, headphones and loudspeakers.


----------



## GUTB

It should be noted that the very fact that much of the audio experience cannot be measured, and so much remains unknown, should be a signal flare that basic knowledge of electrical engineering only leads to very basic understanding of audio reproduction. For example, what are the measurements on fuse microphonic resonance? Capacitors are subject to that, and glass tubes right in the middle of the mains power -- aren't? 
  
 Another example of "magic" little resistors -- the Bybee Purifiers. When I first heard about them I laughed them off. But I kept seeing them in reference setups in professional reviews, and even one reputable speaker manufacturer offered them as an upgrade stating "the largest improvement we've seen". They are basically little resistors you wire into place close to the transducers that are claimed to eliminate 1/f noise (think pink noise). Reading further into them, statements by the inventor betray the truth: in his research, conducting power through certain rare earth metals displayed the effect of filtering 1/f noise. Why this is? "No one knows". So, are the reviewers liars trying to push gear that they don't sell and don't advertise? Is everyone who has tried them a placebo-addled dummy? Maybe! But I won't know for sure until I try one. That's just how this hobby works! If you're an audiophile, that is.


----------



## Speedskater

If you can hear a difference large enough to have a preference, then it's rather easy to measure that difference.
 Now with small Just Noticeable Difference (JNC) measurements are more challenging.


----------



## johnjen

Do you have a method and means of performing such tests?

I'd be interested in learning more about this.

JJ


----------



## Speedskater

If the difference is large enough to have a preference, the typical frequency response, noise and distortion tests will find most differences.
 The tricky part is keeping all conditions the same as in the blind listening test part of the experiment.


----------



## serman005

speedskater said:


> If the difference is large enough to have a preference, the typical frequency response, noise and distortion tests will find most differences.
> The tricky part is keeping all conditions the same as in the blind listening test part of the experiment.


 

 +1


----------



## Toolbox149

Does anyone here have experience with:
1) Adcom amps (especially 5500 & 555)
2) Magnepan speakers (especially 1.7 & 1.6 models)
3) the SQ of AMR fuses vs. any other hi-fi fuses (Are AMR fuses fairly close in SQ to the others or are they pretty far away?)

I'm just starting to formulate a plan.

Thanks,
Tim


----------



## TheAttorney

Hi Tim, remember that the Thread Search function is your friend )
  
 From that, my summary is that
  
 (1) Dunno
 (2) Fuses matter for Magnepans
 (3) AMRs are great value, but can be bettered by more expensive fuses.
  
 I have personal experience of (3). I would say get an AMR to start with to see if you can tell the difference in the first place. If you can, then move onto better ones. If you can't, then you haven't lost much money.
  
 Personally, my next fuse for any situation will be the SR Black, based on their alleged improvement over the Reds, which I think are significantly better than the AMRs, but no one can predict whether you'll notice the difference in your situation.


----------



## jdmeyers77

YMMV, but I don't think that I will ever spend the money on a $$$ fuse.  On very rare occasion, my tube amp will take one out and having a $2 Radio Shack fuse allows me to not sweat it.
  
 Now, if there was a $5 fuse that really was significantly better than the $2 number, maybe.


----------



## johnjen

Some fuses (the high priced spread) can come with a money back guarantee.

But I really doubt there are many returns that take advantage of this money back option.

JJ


----------



## Thenewguy007

big poppa said:


> More fuse opinions coming shortly




Did you ever make a follow up? Your top 3 fuses?


----------



## Seamaster

OMG, this thread is still going!
  
 OK, Big Pappa and I have tried almost all the fuses on the market beside the ones made newer than 2014. I just stopped trying other fuses. They all made improvement to my system, you name it: detail, dynamic, bass, air......yada yada...... If you looking for most dynamic, airy, and detail, Synergy Research fuses won hands down in my book. I did not care so much for hi-fi tuning fuses as they did not sound special compared to other fuses. Now, AMR Gold fuses stay in my system, not for their price but for their tonal balanced and naturalness, they did not "jack up" the tonal balanced of my system and provide improvement on everything evenly. They may added a little more body to music compare to other fuses. AMR Golds are not most detailed or have largest sound stage, but they sound organic, powerful, and like real music. On the other hand, Synergy Research fuses are technically superior but they sound fake.


----------



## TheAttorney

Hi Seamaster, which SR versions did you try? They have 3 different models.
 And could you elaborate on your statement that they sound fake?


----------



## Seamaster

I had the SR Quantum SR 20. Audio fuses in general is system dependent, on the stages of your system progresses. For example, some will benefit more from SR fuse if they have moderate system than others relatively. SR fuse will help to wake-up a dull system. I had SR 20 in my WA-22 Mod Wright with GEC 6SA7G and McIntosh MA-6900 amp. SR fuse enlarged the soundstage and highlighted HF that made the image uneven. The larger sound stage and emphasized HF gave me sense of less body in music. I felt the image became not round but little bit of egg shaped. Bass got tighter but the decay was too fast. In sum, the SR fuse was a Hi-Fi fuse, no doubt, not a music fuse.


----------



## TheAttorney

I've only briefly tried the SR-20 and was underwhelmed. The SR-Red though is great, and others have said that the Black is better. The highlighted HF you mentioned is definitely not a characteristic of the Red. I'd say the opposite.


----------



## john777

theattorney said:


> I've only briefly tried the SR-20 and was underwhelmed. The SR-Red though is great, and others have said that the Black is better. The highlighted HF you mentioned is definitely not a characteristic of the Red. I'd say the opposite.




Have you tried the SR Black yet?


----------



## TheAttorney

I'm not in the habit of perpetual fuse rolling. Once I've done a bit of experimentation, I then stick with what I have until I have a real need to change, for example when I get a new main component. The exception was the AMR fuses, because of their relative low cost, I felt it acceptable to upgrade them to SR Reds quite quickly.
  
 However, at around £60 a fuse, I don't feel sufficiently extravagant to replace my Reds with Blacks.
 So no. I haven't tried the Blacks yet. I was expecting to on delivery of my new DAVE DAC earlier this year, but as far as I can tell that component does not contain any fuse!  .


----------



## john777

theattorney said:


> I'm not in the habit of perpetual fuse rolling. Once I've done a bit of experimentation, I then stick with what I have until I have a real need to change, for example when I get a new main component. The exception was the AMR fuses, because of their relative low cost, I felt it acceptable to upgrade them to SR Reds quite quickly.
> 
> However, at around £60 a fuse, I don't feel sufficiently extravagant to replace my Reds with Blacks.
> So no. I haven't tried the Blacks yet. I was expecting to on delivery of my new DAVE DAC earlier this year, but as far as I can tell that component does not contain any fuse!  .




As you are UK based, like me, have you replaced both internal and mains plug fuses with SR Reds? Or are you a European plug and socket man?

I have SR Reds in all my Furutech mains plugs and my amp's internal fuse, but was thinking of going for Blacks for future upgrades.


----------



## TheAttorney

I won't say what I do with my UK plugs because it should only be done if people really, really understand what they're doing and have the appropriate safeguards in place. The Euro plug is a good alternative, but I didn't go down that route because it may limit choices in the future - e.g. if I wanted top sell my cables etc.


----------



## john777

theattorney said:


> I won't say what I do with my UK plugs because it should only be done if people really, really understand what they're doing and have the appropriate safeguards in place. The Euro plug is a good alternative, but I didn't go down that route because it may limit choices in the future - e.g. if I wanted to sell my cables etc.




I understand.


----------



## Dalgas

Have read the first 12 pages of this very interesting thread. I started my venture into the World of audiograde fuses about two years ago. 

My amp is a NAD M3. I live in Denmark so its 230 V and has two 3.15A (powersection) and one 100mA fuses. Read a post in a Canadian forum about changing fuses i M3. I contacted the guy and he told me that only Hifi Tuning Gold were stable in the powersection -all others he tried had blown! He recommended the 100 mA be a Synergistic Research Red. 

The change i SQ was noticeable - More "flesh and blood" and better stereoimaging. I did not notice any significant difference when switching orientation of the fuses. 

Six months ago I changed the SR Red to SR Black - again a similar improvement in SQ. Then the other night i flipped over the SR Black. WOW - Big difference! Suddenly the bass got real power and voices were even more realistic. 

Another thing of note: The two 3.15A stock-fuses must somehow be different from eachother. The output of the right channel always was about 2dB more than the left. This diffence disappeared when I inserted the Hifi Tuning Gold fuses. I know becauce I had to reset the balance on the amp. 

In short my experience with audiograde fuses is that the music becomes more real - the feeling of actually being there is enhanched. 

Hos Can this be? a fuse is after all only a thread - right? Yes but so are all components in an amp - and so are cables!! For me it is quite simple: Unless you can remove the "component" entirely without hearing a difference there is a good chance that changing it do matter!


----------



## Seamaster

Great info, audiophile grade fuses maybe built with better tolerance and have better flow.


----------



## Dalgas

theattorney said:


> Ok, so who's going to be the first to post impressions of the new SR Black?
> Allegedly (by SR), a bigger improvement over the Red than that was over the Quantum




I can confirm that SR Black is a big improvement over the Red. The SQ gained was bigger than going from Stock-fuse to Red.


----------



## B0BBY

Hi Black Stuart,
  
 Replying to your 7 year old post about Hifi fuses on Head-Fi.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/419939/audio-grade-fuses/150
  
 (BTW Also read that earlier post when your friend was being hammered with Clown jokes).
  
 As I expect you already know by now... (but just in case)
 Some people believe PADIS are the suppliers to Furutech.
 And their rhodium fuses can be had for £20 on Ebay.
  
 Good reviews and worth the punt.
 Thank you for your past input.


----------



## vegan

I have been happy with my SR Black fusein my Burson DAC/Pre. 
Given that you can send it back, it is worth considering. 

Biggest change was in soundstage with my HD-560s. Improved transparency was also noted.


----------



## BIG POPPA

What Fuses are you guys listening to lately. Me it is a bunch of Synergistic Research Blacks. Not jumped to the blue yet.


----------



## Seamaster

I am still with AMR for natural presentation


----------



## Seamaster

I am into speaker system lately:


----------



## Dalgas

I am also into AMR gold. I found out that some of the cheap chinese AMR-copies sounds great. Better than the real thing actually. They sound natural. A friend of mine have tried the SR Blue and he prefered the AMR. The Blue are too much hi-fi.


----------



## Seamaster

Yes, the AMR off the E-Pay are made in Taiwan, sounds great without breaking the bank.


----------



## TheAttorney

Since downsizng (in quantity, not quality), I now only have a single fuse in my hifi system - for a high quality 3-rail power supply that powers 3 digital components.
So with just one fuse to upgrade, I treated myself to an SR Blue. It was a big improvement over stock - I'd have to spend several times more to get an equivalent SQ boost from, say, a power cord.

I haven't compared the Blue to any other audiophile fuse, and have no inclination to do so.

PS. I found the Blue was directional, just like the Reds I used to have. This sort of thing drives Sound Scientists mad - but I don't care


----------



## BIG POPPA

TheAttorney said:


> Since downsizng (in quantity, not quality), I now only have a single fuse in my hifi system - for a high quality 3-rail power supply that powers 3 digital components.
> So with just one fuse to upgrade, I treated myself to an SR Blue. It was a big improvement over stock - I'd have to spend several times more to get an equivalent SQ boost from, say, a power cord.
> 
> I haven't compared the Blue to any other audiophile fuse, and have no inclination to do so.
> ...


Feel you there. I'm about to purchase a few blues an a receptacle or two to keep the rig singing


----------



## johnjen

The directionality of fuses is a curious observation, one that those who don't really understand the scientific method will probably never explore themselves.
Which is really at the heart of the empirical method itself.

Some just pay attention to the declared results of others, as the 'proof', just because a number or test says so.

And there are other similar behavioral 'quirks' to some of the gear we use, all of which should beg for further investigation rather than wholesale belief or it's polar opposite, without much if any corroboration nor validation.

And there is a reason why the SS aficionados have their own soapbox, WAY Over there –>…

And I too use the blacks as $150 each, for a fuse, a fuse that is designed to be expendable, just seems like price gouging to me.
I mean I'm used to 39¢ for a fuse…

JJ


----------



## David Pritchard

I use the Synergistic Research Blue fuse and have found it to make a significant improvement in my headphone system. The sonic improvement is worth the price. And since it comes with a 30 day return policy it is a fun experiment to do. Order one - put it in- decide if the improved sound is worth the price - keep it or send it back. The fuse will sound better at one day, three days, and then reach final sound at 10 days. That still gives you 20 days more to decide to keep or return. More fun than tube rolling, cable rolling, or headphone swapping. 
David Pritchard
575-644-1462


----------



## alvin sawdust

Yesterday on a whim I decided to change the orientation of the SR Blue in my dac. When I fitted it originally I had it with the writing running with the flow of current, left to right so to speak. With the fuse the opposite way around I noticed the sound to be more forward and slightly aggressive. Today I put the fuse back into it's original orientation and the sound has stepped back and is smoother and airier. I have to say the differences are very slight but still noticeable.


----------



## johnjen

I have found that dacs and similar equipment that draws, not just low current, but the current draw doesn't vary all that much due to output load changes, will be 'affected' by fuse reversal the least.
Power amps, and other gear that pulls higher current, seem to demonstrate greater changes using this fuse reversal 'trick'.

It plays into my research on the current delivery capabilities of the ac power itself.
And to me what this fuse reversal situation implies is that fuses have a 'diode' effect at least in terms of being able to quickly let current pass thru.
IOW they are allowing current and voltage to get into the gear differently based upon orientation, which is what a diode does.

I have seen this behavior in the field with wires and cables.
Don't ask me to explain nor offer a reason for this, because it makes no sense and thankfully is exceedingly rare.

But with fuses it's repeatable and while I haven't experimented with 'regular' fuses (of the 39¢ variety), some were saying it applies to them as well.
So if this is a 'common' issue, it could be a free tweak for better SQ, if the fuse is in 'backwards', as those of us who have played around with this, already know.

JJ


----------



## alvin sawdust

I have to say i've played around with upgrade fuses for years starting with Padis, but for me the AMR offer best value for money.


----------



## johnjen

Have you compared your AMR's with any of the synergistic fuses?
Just curious.

JJ


----------



## alvin sawdust

johnjen said:


> Have you compared your AMR's with any of the synergistic fuses?
> Just curious.
> 
> JJ


Unable to as they are different values.


----------



## TheAttorney

johnjen said:


> Have you compared your AMR's with any of the synergistic fuses?



A long time ago, I started with the AMR, then tried HFTuning Supreme, then SR Red.

The AMRs were great value for money, and I enthused about them at the time, but the Reds were significatly better to my ears (and also better than HFT), so worth it if you can stomach the higher cost.
Nevertheless, the AMRs are a relatively low cost way of checking if you can hear fuse differences at all - especially if you're looking for a warmer presentation.

There was then a long gap, with considerable equipment change, to get to my current SR Blue - so I can't comment on how that compares to those earlier ones.


----------



## johnjen

Thanks for that run down.
When I first started trying different fuses it rather quickly became apparent that the SR 'plain' (1st gen) fuses were a cut above the rest (at that time) in all of the SQ attributes I use to measure *'Better'*.  
And the reds and blacks, each took additional steps up as well.

And I can imagine that depending upon the gear and experience, that it can be a revelation just to hear ANY improvement with a step up from a 39¢ fuse.
That something so innocuous as a simple fuse, could make much, if any real SQ improvement, let alone what is actually perceived, can be an eye opener to be sure.

I figure fuses are like gateway drugs, they seem so innocent and so easily controlled…
But once the hook has set it's all down hill from there…  hahahahahahahahahahahaa…

JJ


----------



## johnjen

alvin sawdust said:


> Unable to as they are different values.


Just so I understand clearly, what do you mean by "different values"?

Thanks    JJ


----------



## alvin sawdust

johnjen said:


> Just so I understand clearly, what do you mean by "different values"?
> 
> Thanks    JJ


The sr blue is 1.25 amp and the amr  are 2 amp so not able to try in same dac.


----------



## johnjen

SR makes 2 amp Blue fuses in all 4 categories (small and large, slow and fast blow) so I don't understand…

JJ


----------



## alvin sawdust

The only sr blue I have is 1.25 amp and I don't have any 1.25 amp amr to compare.


----------



## johnjen

Ah, I see now.

Thanks for the explanation.

JJ


----------



## alvin sawdust

My Amp takes two 1 amp fuses, one for live and one for neutral oddly enough. Just popped two new AMR in there so will have to let them cook for a while. After about eight hours everything sounds a bit too smooth.


----------



## TheAttorney

Orange is the new Blue (do they ever stop?).

And, at $160, the first reports claim that Orange is a bigger improvement over Blue than that was over Black.
Anyone tried it yet?


----------



## alvin sawdust

TheAttorney said:


> Orange is the new Blue (do they ever stop?).
> 
> And, at $160, the first reports claim that Orange is a bigger improvement over Blue than that was over Black.
> Anyone tried it yet?


£155 for something that might blow on start up makes my bum twitch. Putting a blue in my dac was something my conscience had to wrestle with.


----------



## johnjen

I figure they are trying to establish relative worth, as in we can charge this silly price for a fuse because they are better than their previous fuses.
What I don't get is they could sell a schiit ton MORE if the prices were say half (or even less), because we all know it it's not the manufacturing costs but 'price gouging' that drives these prices beyond the silly ceiling.

And I do like the SQ of their fuses but this kind of 'marketing mentality' for fuses just has the opposite effect for garnering new, let alone repeat sales.
And if the prices were 'reasonable' they could pwn the aftermarket fuse market, but they seem to need to want to maintain their relative status within the audiophool market place instead.

I just wish they would get a clue.

JJ


----------



## legcramp

Anyone tried the chi-fi fuses from Aucharm or Create Audio from ebay or aliexpress? They seem to be way cheaper.


----------



## vegan

legcramp said:


> Anyone tried the chi-fi fuses from Aucharm or Create Audio from ebay or aliexpress? They seem to be way cheaper.



many years ago a tried a Create Audio fuse from eBay. It wasn’t terrible, but not nearly as good as the Black SR I replaced it with. 
as mentioned earlier, I suggest people try bypassing the fuse with some wire to see what kind of improvement they can get... then perhaps compare a new fuse with that.

Replacing fuse in my sub probably made the biggest difference (vs AMR fuse).  
Using a Black SR fuse vs copper wire seemed pretty close in my DAC/Pre, but didn’t do a long or critical comparison. 
AMR fuses vs copper wire in my monoblocks made a much smaller difference (mainly to volume and a little greater bass weight - tried one with a fuse, the other with copper.)

I know use arc protection on my audio circuit... going fuseless. (But there is protection in my current Audio GD DAC/pre)


----------



## Seamaster

vegan said:


> many years ago a tried a Create Audio fuse from eBay. It wasn’t terrible, but not nearly as good as the Black SR I replaced it with.
> as mentioned earlier, I suggest people try bypassing the fuse with some wire to see what kind of improvement they can get... then perhaps compare a new fuse with that.
> 
> Replacing fuse in my sub probably made the biggest difference (vs AMR fuse).
> ...



Everyone has different taste, I found SR fuse too hi-fi sounding to my personal reference, not organic enough as they changed high frequency too much that made sound unnatural. YMMY


----------



## vegan

Seamaster said:


> Everyone has different taste, I found SR fuse too hi-fi sounding to my personal reference, not organic enough as they changed high frequency too much that made sound unnatural. YMMY



Interesting. The black SR is the only SR fuse I tried. I’m not using any fuses currently. What are you using now?

totally. Agree about trying first. That’s why I suggested comparing any fuse with copper or silver wire... especially when the fuse can be sent back...
It seems crazy there isn’t better protection offered that doesn’t compromise the sound so much. 

Could anyone enlighten me on how Audio GD protects their gear? I understand Kingwa doesn’t use fuses, but something else?


----------



## Seamaster

vegan said:


> Interesting. The black SR is the only SR fuse I tried. I’m not using any fuses currently. What are you using now?



I am using AMR right now, not the best, but more balanced. BTW, I am not into fuses that cost $200 dollars.


----------



## buson160man (Nov 27, 2020)

I know I am late in the game of fuse comparisons. I have experience with the hifi tuning fuses. using 1st the gold then the silver and finally the ultrafuse. They did improve things over the stock fuses. I also tried the isoclean in another of my pieces which made a very noticeable improvement in the sound. I just bought a Rogue RH-5 and installed a hifi tuning ultrafuse yesterday. So far it is making a difference. But after perusing the net including head fi I decided to dip my toes into the pond and try the fuse comparison for myself. So I have on order a isoclean fuse, a furutech fuse and a AMR gold fuse on order from England . Cheaper with the pandemic going on the dollar is up versus the pound as far as the exchange rate. So I have to be patient it will take awhile to get here. But I am curious which fuse will be my choice for my new toy. The rogue is hybrid tube unit. Tubes in the input and mosfets on the output .
(wow just noticed that the last three blogs mine included came nine years after the earlier ones. 11 years ago.) just an observation hopefully the latest blogs will stir things up again as far as upgrading fuses in your equipment.


----------



## vegan

buson160man said:


> .... But after perusing the net including head fi I decided to dip my toes into the pond and try the fuse comparison for myself. So I have on order a isoclean fuse, a furutech fuse and a AMR gold fuse on order from England . ...



do let us know how you go 🙂


----------



## buson160man

I will . For now the hifi-tuning supreme fuse is breaking in more along with the rogue RH-5 which I have had for a week now.is sounding very nice .


----------



## buson160man (Dec 1, 2020)

vegan said:


> do let us know how you go 🙂


Well the hifi tuning supreme fuse has pretty much fleshed in. Wow is all i have to say. The increase of dynamics especially among other things is making listening very involving. I will be trying the isoclean next when i get it. But it has a tough face off with the hifi tuning supreme. I could be very happy with what it is giving me now. I never knew you could get this level of dynamics from a headphone. I have not gotten the dynamics I am getting from any headphone that I have had.


----------



## buson160man

well I tried the isoclean fuse and it did some nice things. But after further run in I reinstalled the hifi tuning supreme fuse and at this point it is the reigning champion in the Rogue RH-5 headphone amp.


----------



## cj3209 (Jan 1, 2021)

NT


----------



## cj3209 (Jan 1, 2021)

My Sagra DAC wouldn't turn on.  It has a ceramic fuse and when I fiddled with it, the unit turned on.  Then it stopped and when I replaced the fuse with another 'glass' one, it worked agan.  So, I thought, maybe I should try a better quality fuse.  So I purchased a $75 Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme Fuse:  250V, 500mA, fast blow.  When I installed it, the DAC wouldn't turn on.  Not sure why this new fuse isn't working?


----------



## johnjen

Perhaps it's not the fuse but the fuse folder, as in a cold solder joint or tarnished contacts that mate with the fuse…

Just a thought.      JJ


----------



## cj3209

johnjen said:


> Perhaps it's not the fuse but the fuse folder, as in a cold solder joint or tarnished contacts that mate with the fuse…
> 
> Just a thought.      JJ


Hmm, I'll take a look at the fuse contacts.  Thx!


----------



## shaitan667

Are there some sort of tangible results someone could provide that demonstrates the benefits of an overpriced fuse, instead of empty words about the perceived sound quality?


----------



## vegan

shaitan667 said:


> Are there some sort of tangible results someone could provide that demonstrates the benefits of an overpriced fuse, instead of empty words about the perceived sound quality?


As I’ve suggested earlier in the thread, you can always try using some wire to bypass the fuse to test it for a short time.

But I am no electrical engineer, so perhaps best to consult wiser minds in this... 

But that would give you an idea of whether there audible benefit - to your ears.


----------



## ray-dude

Honestly, it is hard to imagine any results more tangible in this hobby that perceived improvements in sound quality.

If you would like to explore possible reasons why fuses would make an impact, I believe much of the benefit is around filtering/power factor/ability to respond to dynamic loads.  An ideal fuse would have zero complex impedance (instant response to changing current demands), very low internal resistance (nice to have), filter all non-60 Hz cruft, and correct power factor to 1.0 (all while doing what a fuse normally does in protecting against overcurrent).  A good fuse will help get you closer to that.  The fact that it is a fuse is only coincidental to a fuse being one of the few easy access points you have with the electrical chain.

An alternative is to put some sort of regenerator or power line conditioner upstream of your equipment to do all the things above, and make sure that you generic fuse isn't degrading any of these factors.

If one were to think about fuses as a possible means to improve power quality getting to your component (that happens to also be a protective fuse), a lot of the discussions take on a different character I think.

I will be the first to admit that the prices for some of these are vastly beyond what it takes to build them, but it is a VERY limited market for these fuses.  I have SR Orange fuses in my components, and they are nice for that little bit extra icing.  I would not start with them (for example, I've found that there is a MUCH bigger bang for the buck to be had by putting in a dedicated circuit for your audio system, and isolating your analog components from SMPS's using an isolation transformer or having the analog chain on a different circuit than the digital chain), but with everything else tuned up, I'm glad to have them.


----------



## johnjen

shaitan667 said:


> Are there some sort of tangible results someone could provide that demonstrates the benefits of an overpriced fuse, instead of empty words about the perceived sound quality?


In my research I have found that all current delivery that flows into our gear happens in very short pulses separated by even longer periods of no current flow, and is not a continuous stream as most would think.
Any component that is involved in the power delivery into the device, which can and does impede this flow, will affect the performance of the device.
A fuse by it's very nature is designed to do just this, to impede this flow and to entirely halt it under specific circumstances.

To think, that that a fuses impedance to the necessary flow of current, is either on or off is not how a fuse actually works, and furthermore it's reaction to this current flow is dynamic and is not 'linear'.
IOW the perception that the fuse has no affect on the current flow, until it blows, is not what is actually happening.

Since the fuse (along with other components involved in the delivery of current) do not act in this on/off manner, other than when it shuts off the current entirely by opening up, means they WILL affect the current flow in real time, albeit in some cases in only a minor way, while in other cases with obvious sonic consequences.

Bottom line is, only you will be able to determine if this is the case for you in your system.
Which is why most of the 'better' fuses have a return policy so you can find out for yourself if they do or don't improve the SQ.

For myself I have determined long ago, that fuses DO make sonic improvements to the overall SQ, which has been been repeatedly demonstrated every single time I use them.
Of course YMMV.

JJ


----------



## BIG POPPA

With so many great fuses today. Would start at the Acme fuses, But I use Synergistic Research Orange these days at about 10x the price.


----------



## jonathan c

BIG POPPA said:


> With so many great fuses today. Would start at the Acme fuses, But I use Synergistic Research Orange these days at about 10x the price.


In your camp as well. I have been using the SROs whenever possible: external power supply, cd transport, DAC, headphone amplifier. Given that the electricity comes through the fuse before flowing to the rest of the component, I want to optimise the contribution of (or minimise the disturbance from) the fuse.


----------



## shaitan667

Has anyone been able to actually measure any sort of effect on the final audio signal? A before and after?


----------



## shaitan667

There is alot of hyperbole nothing tangible in the "results" posted.


----------



## shaitan667

And Synergistic Research is certainly not a company that can be trusted. Have you not seen the HOT from them???


----------



## alvin sawdust

shaitan667 said:


> There is alot of hyperbole nothing tangible in the "results" posted.


Best thing you can do is try them yourself and post your findings. AMR fuses are £10 and from Akiko Audio there is the Wilbrand fuse with tuning chip for 15 euros which won't hurt your bank balance.


----------



## johnjen

shaitan667 said:


> There is alot of hyperbole nothing tangible in the "results" posted.


I figure very few of us have lab gear sensitive enough let alone want to spend the time needed to set up such an experiment to be able to even try to measure those sorts of things.

I know for myself it would be a waste of my time since I know that they do make a difference, so there is little motivation to 'prove' with tangible "results" that fuses do make a difference. 
Besides proof for me, based upon my system, which is different from your's, could result in 'proof' that may not satisfy you as your criteria for an improvement in SQ is likely to be different than mine.

This is where you will either bite the bullet and find out for yourself,
or not.

JJ


----------



## shaitan667

Basic proof would be easy. 

If playing a digital file, identify the wave form.
Feed the DAC to an ADC, record the output, analyse the wave form with the old fuse installed, do the same with new fuse.

You could use audacity or some other software


----------



## shaitan667

You can't trust your own ears.
Even sitting in a different position when listening will alter your perception of sound


----------



## shaitan667

Do any of the companies offering these have data sheets available?


----------



## johnjen

shaitan667 said:


> Basic proof would be easy.
> 
> If playing a digital file, identify the wave form.
> Feed the DAC to an ADC, record the output, analyse the wave form with the old fuse installed, do the same with new fuse.
> ...


Well then go ahead and perform your experiment and let us know what results you get.

JJ


shaitan667 said:


> You can't trust your own ears.
> Even sitting in a different position when listening will alter your perception of sound


Um, that you are telling me that YOU can't trust YOUR ears is fine, but trying to tell me that I can't, is a bit presumptuous don't you think?

JJ


shaitan667 said:


> Do any of the companies offering these have data sheets available?


Send them an email and ask as I don't know either way since I know the results I get and need no further 'proof'.

JJ


----------



## shaitan667

Yes, I am saying that you cannot trust your own ears

https://www.recordingrevolution.com...e human ear is not,our audio is sounding like.

Your own perception is not a precise measurement of things.


----------



## shaitan667

I would have thought that if you were upgrading a component in the audio chain, you would want to know if it actually has a demonstrable positive effect.


----------



## shaitan667

Also do some research on how effective the placebo effect actually is. 
I have a feeling that's what you're experiencing.


----------



## alvin sawdust

Bottom line is if the sound improves for you does anything else matter, you are right to a certain extent that you can't trust your ears as mood plays a part. Since the first cables being sold as upgrades this debate has gone on and on and it never ends. I hear improvements with fuses but take issue with the prices being charged by some manufacturers.


----------



## shaitan667

As long as you can admit that and are aware that the manufacturer is over promising and over charging, that's a start. 

Where are these fuses being installed? In the AC input side of things? Before DC conversion?


----------



## alvin sawdust

Some over charge, some don't, as as for the over promising bit well that is for the individual to decide.


----------



## jonathan c

shaitan667 said:


> Yes, I am saying that you cannot trust your own ears
> 
> https://www.recordingrevolution.com/you-cant-trust-your-ears/#:~:text=The human ear is not,our audio is sounding like.
> 
> Your own perception is not a precise measurement of things.



Perception is not meant to be measurement. Perception is experience. Measurement is a subsequent attempt to apply parametres to that experience.


----------



## johnjen (Mar 2, 2021)

jonathan c said:


> Perception is not meant to be measurement. Perception is experience. Measurement is a subsequent attempt to apply parametres to that experience.


This ^…
If you need numbers to tell you what you hear then seek out numbers from those who can supply them.

However if you can be willing to listen and concentrate REPEATEDLY, as in over years of time and discern what is and is not important with regards to what YOU want to hear, then you just might surprise yourself.

By way of example do you hear the exact same performance every single time or are there differences?
If there are differences then learn to focus on these differences and discern what is desirable and what is not.
This can lead to why this is so.

And then there is the possibility that you can't or don't hear any differences, in which case fuses may or may not make any difference one way or the other.
And when coupled with the fact that some CAN hear differences while others can't of the same system, while listening at the same time, well, how can that be 'countered'?

I trust my hearing and have not only calibrated my hearing but have learned what sonic and acoustical 'cues' to pay attention to for well over 5 decades.

Son, try as you might, you simply are ill equipped to tell me what I do and do not hear, but then, the same goes for me to try and tell you what you might or might not be able to hear.

Not to mention that I don't listen to test tones or frequency sweeps, I listen to music and if what I have achieved enhances my enjoyment of that goal, which by the way is really all that matters to me, then of what use and need are there for numbers which I can't nor even need to hear?



shaitan667 said:


> I would have thought that if you were upgrading a component in the audio chain, you would want to know if it actually has a demonstrable positive effect.


But I do, I listen to it and then decide.



shaitan667 said:


> Also do some research on how effective the placebo effect actually is.
> I have a feeling that's what you're experiencing.


I am well aware of the placebo effect and the most obvious answer is I remove the modification to see what happens, and proceed from there.

Son, many of us here are aware of your passion and desire to make sure that we don't get ripped off by snake oil or worse etc.
And it seems according to you we don't pay attention to measurements and hard data.

That is an assumption on your part, one that is, as I previously mentioned, a bit presumptuous on your part.
And while it appears that you have a great deal of this all figured out, at least enough to know how NOT to get 'ripped off', we have already learned those lessons, been there done that, and moved on.

And we all are aware of the objective vs subjective polarization within the audio community, but there are those of us who use BOTH approaches and quite effectively at that.
IOW it need not be an 'either or decision', and they can be blended together.

And I do invite you to do your own experiments as you outlined above.
It will help you gain a whole nuther appreciation for measurements.

I have, and have posted results on those topics I needed and wanted to learn more about.

JJ


----------



## BIG POPPA

@shaitan667 Dude, there are those here who know what exactly we are listening to, and can communicate that very eloquently. @johnjen is one of those people.
 We listen to our rigs day in an day out. We know exactly where the rig is at at any given time, if it is making your toes tap or taking a dump. It is cyclical and rigs do it differently. 
My MPX3 is notorious for sounding beautiful for the 1st 15 minutes or so, then take a dump (musicality sucked out) for about 30-45 minutes, then work its way back being musical again, After a few hours it would settle down. 
The reason I'm saying this, something like a fuse is a big change to us with our rigs. We know like a Nascar crew chief where our rig is at. A lot of people don't, that's ok. But for those people to talk for those people who know, who have the experience is kinda hilarious. Fuses are just another thing. No big deal.


----------



## TheAttorney

Guys, please stop feeding the trolls.
Or in this particular case, stop feeding the sealion.
This sealion has stated his case very eloquently. Points very well made. Now stop feeding him. Right now!


----------



## BIG POPPA

With some new to the hobby with beliefs how things are supposed to work.
And then you have those that actually listen to their gear and can help with any issues that come to this hobby. There are some of that text all the time, or on the phone when we are not getting together. Some of us enjoy this hobby day in and day out. 
When it comes to tweaks like fuses. Some of us have done the work and listened to a whole lot of them for many hours. 
When someone starts saying whimsical things, we do get a chuckle.


----------



## Guidostrunk

It's amazing that these people go out of their way to ridicule over another person's subjective view on what they're hearing. At times it's at Jahovha Witness levels.

If you were in a global government controlled blind testing specialty doctor of all things blind facility. It would never meet these people's standards. Don't believe me? Post that you did a blind test and passed. Even if it's for schiits and giggles and wait for the herd.

You will feel like you're in a FBI interrogation room.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Guidostrunk said:


> It's amazing that these people go out of their way to ridicule over another person's subjective view on what they're hearing. At times it's at Jahovha Witness levels.
> 
> If you were in a global government controlled blind testing specialty doctor of all things blind facility. It would never meet these people's standards. Don't believe me? Post that you did a blind test and passed. Even if it's for schiits and giggles and wait for the herd.
> 
> You will feel like you're in a FBI interrogation room.


I know, right???


----------



## shaitan667

I don't mean to offend anyone, apologies if I've been a bit blunt and dismissive.

I'm would genuinely like to see some sort of measurements taken that could show me how the final analog signal is changed by using some of this stuff.

I'm a technical sort of fellow, work as an IT technician, and everything when it comes to performance in that world is measurable.
I can test things before and after, or look at benchmarks to tell me if something is worth upgrading.

I have also seen the placebo effect working it's magic fairly frequently in my day job. Tell a client that what you've done will improve some such thing, even if it doesn't, and they think the improvement is real, even though nothing (or something unrelated) is changed.

@BIG POPPA  - I've just looked up that MPX3 and saw that it was a tube amplifier. What you said makes it seem like the amp has issues with power delivery. My impression is that if a device isn't performing consistently then anything you do would be repairing it to bring it up to factory spec, which I suppose one could view as an improvement.

Again, apologies for any rudeness conveyed by my previous posts in this thread, bad couple of days and wasn't fair of me to be so dismissive to you all.


----------



## johnjen (Mar 5, 2021)

shaitan667 said:


> I don't mean to offend anyone, apologies if I've been a bit blunt and dismissive.
> 
> I'm would genuinely like to see some sort of measurements taken that could show me how the final analog signal is changed by using some of this stuff.
> 
> ...


If you really want to see some sort of measurements with regards to this topic, I would suggest you make the effort yourself to take them.
I say this not as a form of divisiveness but to invite you to explore just what is entailed in taking measurements and the inherent limitations in taking them with sufficient resolution, along with the stability of the measurements themselves, and the necessary repeatability, accuracy, and precision.

A single case in point is the magnitude of the voltages we are dealing with.
Using dBV as a common starting point where 0dBV= 0.999544v (≈1v) if our fuses are only resulting in a -40dBV change, that means that the noticeable changes to the measured voltages START at 0.00999v (2 orders of magnitude lower) and if the variance starts at -50dBV then we need to peer down and START looking for changes at 0.00316v or LESS.
All while using dynamic signals (such as music) and not steady state ones (test tones).
Why?
Because music is NOT a constant voltage and is not repeating.
If you want relevant and meaningful results, the tests must reflect the actual use of the circuits under test, otherwise the results will have little to no relevance to what we actually hear.

It will quickly be determined that taking reliable, let alone meaningful measurements will be difficult, to say the least.



shaitan667 said:


> @BIG POPPA  - I've just looked up that MPX3 and saw that it was a tube amplifier. What you said makes it seem like the amp has issues with power delivery. My impression is that if a device isn't performing consistently then anything you do would be repairing it to bring it up to factory spec, which I suppose one could view as an improvement.


There are a great many influencing factors that combined, ALL impact the operation of any and every electronic device.
And yes a well designed device can minimize some (all?) of these influences but cannot entirely negate them, such is the case when E=IR…

And you are right, test results do inform the designer and testing personnel if the circuits are working properly (or not) but these 'numbers' are used to determine if the circuits are functioning properly and little more.
They do NOT tell us how well the circuit works while running in normal operating mode (such as listening to music) nor do such tests provide realistic indications of the SQ resulting from their use.

Case in point, many many folks prefer tube amps even though they usually measure considerably 'worse' than SS amps, and most times by orders of magnitude.
Tube circuits usually have 0.x to 0.0x% of distortion while SS circuits can drop down to 0.000x% (or even much lower).
In this case the distortion numbers do NOT reflect, nor provide meaningful or even useful results of the actual SQ of the amp(s).
This is an example where the results of the tests themselves have been simplified down to a single number or perhaps a much simpler set of numbers, which again don't reflect the reality of actually listening to music.

Lastly, I have explored the power delivery of AC power into our gear and the reality is much different than a simple overview can provide.

In my understanding "…if a device isn't performing consistently then anything you do would be repairing it to bring it up to factory spec, which I suppose one could view as an improvement.", is far to simplistic to accurately reflect the reality of the situation, especially in audio.

Did you know that ALL the current delivered to our audio gear occurs in repeating ≈3ms pulses with ≈5ms between them (aka 60% duty cycle).
This complexity, of how power is actually delivered into our gear, significantly increases the complexity of trying to understand how seemingly insignificant changes in the components of the power delivery chain (cables, fuses, etc.) can be grasped, which also adds to the difficult of measuring such effects and adequately documenting them with sufficient repeatability, accuracy, and precision.

Bottom line, as has been mentioned, is to try 'audio grade' fuses for yourself and determine if fuses make an audible difference for you in your system, or not.
This is the min-path approach to answering your question and from there you can explore the why's and by how much etc, if you should so choose.
Or you can do what most of us do, just listen and enjoy the changes to the SQ of the music you enjoy.
Or not.

JJ


----------



## BIG POPPA

@shaitan667 Um the Singlepower mpx3 has been totally gone through. Lundahl transformer and a choke completely rewired and tweeked with new RCA input with Furutech Rhodium and Gold. and with Jupiter wire and solen caps..


----------



## BIG POPPA

Some gear responds to tweeks, some gear doesn't. Fuses are great to roll. They are cheaper than tubes, and they may make your gear pleasant enough to keep. There are always new fuses coming out so there is always an opportunity to upgrade the sound of the piece of gear. Some fuses are better than others.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Who knows what fuses these are??


----------



## johnjen

It looks like 'early' prototypes of Synergistic Research black fuses.

JJ


----------



## BIG POPPA

So I am getting a Sonnet Morpheus and I need to fuse it up with an Synergistic Research Orange. So the information is vague at best in the threads. Just bits and pieces of info. So I get the value and then find out that there is 2 fuses in the DAC so I ask to be safe and this is the answer I got by email:
Yes correct, but I warn you for audiophile fuses for three reasons:



1 It will not work for several technical reasons so they have no effect on sound.

2 But next we had many burned out transformers as they do not protect.

3 As a result your warranty is void



Met vriendelijke groet



Kind regards



Jan Bergsman



Sonnet Digital Audio BV





+31(0)36-7856259

*I have another piece of gear coming a Denafrips Iris DDC
And this is what they said:*




Vinshine Audio​
6:31 AM (10 hours ago)
to me

Hi Gil
Thank you for your order, appreciate it!
You may consider a 5x20mm 2A slow blow fuse 

Many thanks.

Yours sincerely,
*Alvin Chee

VINSHINE AUDIO PTE. LTD. (SINGAPORE)*
Whatsapp: +6588534576 | www.vinshineaudio.com | 11 Woodlands Close, #05-23, Singapore 737853 (By appt only)

Am I gonna buy more from these people, hell yes. 
So be aware some do not like Audio Grade Fuses but like the 99 cent ones. 


*

*


----------



## BIG POPPA

Asked for a refund because of jan with the order of the Sonnet Morpheus, that guy is a jerk. He was just the weekend Flunkie. My retailer is straight up and will take care of all his customers as long as we use the recommended 400mA, we will have warranty. Yes that value is a little odd. Mostly used for measuring devices. What we have to go through sometimes.


----------



## bfreedma

BIG POPPA said:


> Asked for a refund because of jan with the order of the Sonnet Morpheus, that guy is a jerk. He was just the weekend Flunkie. My retailer is straight up and will take care of all his customers as long as we use the recommended 400mA, we will have warranty. Yes that value is a little odd. Mostly used for measuring devices. What we have to go through sometimes.



Telling you the truth makes someone a jerk?

I like honest vendors - will have to give strong consideration to purchasing from Sonnet.  I expect more vendors to deny warranty claims due to the use of out of spec/under performing fuses in the future.


----------



## Guidostrunk

They can't resist lol.


----------



## BIG POPPA (Apr 14, 2021)

bfreedma said:


> Telling you the truth makes someone a jerk?
> 
> I like honest vendors - will have to give strong consideration to purchasing from Sonnet.  I expect more vendors to deny warranty claims due to the use of out of spec/under performing fuses in the future.


Um, Been using Audio Grade Fuses for many years now. My gear is resolving enough to hear the difference, and after putting on around 50 headfi meets with a few private meets. Have the experience to tell what works. Prefer SR orange fuses. Have SR fuses in all my gear. Pay for all my gear myself, not a shill for nobody. If your gear sucks and you can't tell the difference , that's on you. My headphones these day's are HD800's' LCD-3's and RS-1s buttonless. Do know what great gear sounds and what tweeks do and can explain the science.
Well if you knew the rest of the story, Jan doesn't speak for the designer and a couple of Audio grade fuse companies are starting to fill the void for that value. One brand is making me a custom valued fuse from their line to make sure I am taken care of. The morpheus has an odd value and people like their audio grade fuses.

You can't change the rules for Warranty work after you collect money for that piece of gear. What you state for the guidelines on your website, thats the rules. You change them, fine remake the guidelines on your website so people will know what they are. If not its called Bait and Switch. Bad business Practice.


----------



## TheAttorney (Apr 14, 2021)

BIG POPPA said:


> You can't change the rules for Warranty work after you collect money for that piece of gear. What you state for the guidelines on your website, thats the rules. You change them, fine remake the guidelines on your website so people will know what they are. If not its called Bait and Switch. Bad business Practice.


As a fuse-believer myself, I think you're being too hard on Sonnet.

Jan has stated 3 reasons why he doesn't want you to go ahead with audiophile fuses. We have to allow for English not being his first language, so I will re-word on his behalf:

1. "Audiophile fuses have no sonic effect".
I don't agree with him on this point, but the vast majority of audiophile users and designers believe the same as him, so it's not fair to single him out. We have to live in the real world and accept that most people, including designers, don't agree with us on this point. Even those designers that do believe are further constrained by the following 2 points.

2. "Examples where audiophile fuses have not protected his equipment".
We don't have any evidence to dispute his claim that his amp's transformers have been burnt when some customers used audiophile fuses.
If Vinshine also had had some equipment fry-ups as result of audiophile fuses, then they'd probably be more cautious too.

3. "Your warranty is void if you use incorrectly spec'd fuses".
This is true if you use incorrectly spec'd fuses. And most audiophile fuses do not have any safety certification. Which means the fuse's spec is not confirmed and the amp designer (or insurance company) will not be liable if that fuse does not protect when it should have done. The risk is entirely our own if we go for any fuse that is not safety certified, but I'm happy to take that small risk for the benefit of improved sound. But you shouldn't knock professionals for being more cautious than us on safety.

The main point I'm trying to make is that it does not help our cause by slagging off people who don't believe. They are the normal ones and we are the weird ones trying out tweaks that most normal people would consider ridiculous   .


----------



## gikigill

Your home/contents insurance will also be void if your non standard fuse burns down your house and contents. 

There's a very good reason FCC/CE/UL certification's exist and I wouldn't blame manufactures of being wary when high voltage stuff is involved.


----------



## johnjen

In my research on fuses and their behavior, the differences between similarly rated ones, (say ± one step up or down from the stock rating), and their ability to 'protect' the downstream gear, the fuses behavior to surges etc. are relatively minor.
Now that doesn't mean it couldn't cause a problem, but if the device is that sensitive to an EXACT fuse rating (not to mention a non standard fuse rating) I'd question the overall design integrity of the device in the 1st place.

Especially with slow blow fuses which are designed to allow peak current to flow well beyond their rating, for a pre-determined amount of time (8ms).

And it seems to me that if a manufacturer relies upon a fuse, as in it is their first line of defense, I would personally avoid that gear altogether.

Fuses are a LAST resort, so if their xfmrs are getting 'burned' or are frying, there is likely a design issue in the 1st place.

Just say'n…

JJ


----------



## BIG POPPA

TheAttorney said:


> As a fuse-believer myself, I think you're being too hard on Sonnet.
> 
> Jan has stated 3 reasons why he doesn't want you to go ahead with audiophile fuses. We have to allow for English not being his first language, so I will re-word on his behalf:
> 
> ...


Yes I know if you use the wrong value of fuse that will void the warranty and pointed that out and rephrased in a way like I think what you meant to say is this. Find out this guy was just the weekend flunky , just to answer the phones. The more I tried to reason with him, the more he would double down on his statements. Got to a point where I said you know this is a bait and switch, paid for it, asking for clarity on the 2 fuses in the unit and him just being really aggressive. To me he was talking like he was doing me a favor. You know how fast people in the industry reached out to fix my pickle. So taken care of. Why would I spend over 3K on a piece of gear just to p*ssaway the money away? I won't be bullied with my money with purchases. Don't threaten me that you are going to void my warrantee using the right value of audio grade fuses . I know better. Some retailers asked if I wanted the next size up 500mA and I explained in this instance it was way to much of a jump. Next week ask me what fuses are coming or got. Some of the best of the best, well the top two to start with a decent alternate choice.


----------



## BIG POPPA (Apr 14, 2021)

johnjen said:


> In my research on fuses and their behavior, the differences between similarly rated ones, (say ± one step up or down from the stock rating), and their ability to 'protect' the downstream gear, the fuses behavior to surges etc. are relatively minor.
> Now that doesn't mean it couldn't cause a problem, but if the device is that sensitive to an EXACT fuse rating (not to mention a non standard fuse rating) I'd question the overall design integrity of the device in the 1st place.
> 
> Especially with slow blow fuses which are designed to allow peak current to flow well beyond their rating, for a pre-determined amount of time (8ms).
> ...


And yes I pointed out about the weak design in the power section when they are blowing transformers like popcorn. Was so enraged at that point. Using an odd value of fuse and knowing people are probably using a .5amp or 1 amp because they had that laying around. The whole 9 yards.

Just wanted to know the value of both fuses, clarity. So I can have the best fuses ready to install.  and I got the hatred of audio grade fuses. I don't care if you hate Audio Grade Fuses. You can't just change the warrantee like that. That makes the company look shady.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Then I asked are the fuses you use ETL or UL listed? Then the well, is the Morpheus ETL or UL Listed. If they were, would understand and only use bussman fuses. Never got a response, leave it there.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Who has gotten new audio grade fuses recently.


----------



## BIG POPPA

2wheels4me said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BIG POPPA* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...


I use a 500A  Isolation transformer


----------



## Wes S (Sep 21, 2021)

Hey folks,

I am just getting into fuses with an SR Orange on the way (should be here tomorrow), and I am curious if any of you veterans have compared the SR Orange to the AM Ultimate Premier Beeswax SHD ($250)?  I would love to know how they differ, as I prefer a natural/organic sound to a hyper detailed sound, and I am trying to figure out which one will better suit my taste.  Any info on this would be greatly appreciated!  I am putting this first fuse in my Rogue RH-5, and will most likely try some in my Sonnet Morpheus eventually.

Cheers,

Wes


----------



## Wes S

Just made payment for the Pre-Order of the new SR Purple fuse, and can't wait to hear what this fuse can do.

Just in case any fuse rollers are interested and not aware, SR just came out with a new one.


----------



## Lvivske

So hopping from the Valhalla tube rolling (now fuse talk) thread to the actual fuse thread

Ended up getting 3 'hi fi fuses' because why not take the system i love one step further, or even a half step, whatever. All HiFi Tuning brand.

Put Supreme series in both my amps. With the Valhalla it was hard to tell an improvement since I hadnt listened to it in a few days, and the installation takes longer than the others. If it's better, cool. No downside noticed from the stock LittleFuse cheapo one.

Supreme in my RebelAmp I felt an immediate improvement. Listened to my normal 'audio testing' playlist a bit before installation to get a baseline. Installing is easy on this with just a pop out compartment, so 20 seconds. Went back and immediately felt like the sound particles dispersed and got shinier. Soundstage, resolution, whatever you wanna call it, things went up a notch. I gave it a day and flipped the orientation and I think it was better so left it. Need to 'burn in' if that matters but any improvement was already appreciated.

That said the first thing I did was put a Silver Star series in my Bifrost DAC. Going from that to the (stock) Rebel felt brighter, in a harsh way. Its a very smooth amp and I felt some highs were more grating than I'm used to. Now last night still felt something was off about the setup that I was loving a week prior so I'm flipping the direction and going back to stock, and at the moment I was feeling stock Schurter fuse is actually better. I swapped like a dozen times last night listening to certain guitar solos and drum sections and felt there was more separation on stock, but went back to the Hifi Tuning just for the sake of 'burn in'. It was on clearance so no big loss if I dont use it.

So yeah, those are my initial impressions. One good, one possibly bad, and one neutral. No placebo confirmation bias loving everything equally.

Local guy is selling a SR Black in the size for the Bifrost for extremely cheap....should I bother?


----------



## ThanatosVI (Jan 26, 2022)

Hey guys, has anyone a good overview of what the fuse market currently has to offer?

My Setup nears completion and fuses are the Last area I didn't bother playing around with.
Unfortunately it's hard to find conclusive impressions about it, since most reviews only compare to regular Stock fuses.

Ideally I'd be interested in wether there are fuses that flesh out the sound and give it a thicker weightier character. Granting the Last ounce of authority to the Bass Department.
More top end extension is not necessary if it smooths out the top end would be nice though.

I'm afraid that some fuses might rather go into the opposite direction, improving the Last bit of detail retrieval and clariry but thinning out the sound in the process. In other words I am looking for a more organisch sound instead of a hyper detailed one.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## johnjen

I suppose if some one wanted to invest the hundreds of $$$ to purchase and test the top tier fuses that would a a way to answer your question, but personally I can think of other uses for that kind of money.

That's probably why there don't seem to be back to back to back comparisons of the top tier fuses.
Rather there are those comparisons when folks do upgrade from the greatest at the time to the next latest and greatest, which is still rare but does happen.

JJ


----------



## Wes S (Jan 27, 2022)

ThanatosVI said:


> Hey guys, has anyone a good overview of what the fuse market currently has to offer?
> 
> My Setup nears completion and fuses are the Last area I didn't bother playing around with.
> Unfortunately it's hard to find conclusive impressions about it, since most reviews only compare to regular Stock fuses.
> ...


The Synergistic Research Purple fuse will do exactly what you are looking for.


----------



## Guidostrunk

Wes S said:


> The Synergistic Research Purple fuse will do exactly what you are looking for.


I was hoping that you chimed in. I couldn't remember the fuse you mentioned lol.


----------



## TheAttorney

Wes S said:


> The Synergistic Research Purple fuse will do exactly what you are looking for.


+1 for the SR Purple. 
The SR Orange does this too and, at the time, I thought it was my end game fuse. But the Purple does it better.

I'm intrigued by the QSA line of fuses, but haven't tried one yet. From others' comments, the similarly priced QSA Yellow may beat the SR Purple on detail/dynamics, but not on that full-bodied organic presentation.


----------



## gimmeheadroom

Fuses blow.  Sorry guys, it had to be said


----------



## ThanatosVI

Thanks guys


----------



## Wes S (Jan 27, 2022)

.


----------



## gimmeheadroom (Jan 29, 2022)

.


----------



## Wes S

Guidostrunk said:


> I was hoping that you chimed in. I couldn't remember the fuse you mentioned lol.


I have been meaning to touch base with you about this fuse Bro, as I think it would do some magic in your MJ2.


----------



## Karthik Eyan

Hi all 
May I ask if any Hidiamond powerchord owners experimented with audiophile fuses ? 
I use a Uk power chord which has a fuse in the plug. I recently upgraded the cheap 2 cent busman to SR BLUE and it just sucked the life out of my music. I waited for weeks. Nope the sound stayed the same. 
I changed the fuse back to busman and the life returned in my music. 
This makes me think SR fuse don’t olu along with Hidiamond cables. 

Has any Hidiamond power chord user had success with other audiophile fuses ?


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## dougms3

Karthik Eyan said:


> Hi all
> May I ask if any Hidiamond powerchord owners experimented with audiophile fuses ?
> I use a Uk power chord which has a fuse in the plug. I recently upgraded the cheap 2 cent busman to SR BLUE and it just sucked the life out of my music. I waited for weeks. Nope the sound stayed the same.
> I changed the fuse back to busman and the life returned in my music.
> ...


Have you tried flipping the fuse?

It usually sounds better in a specific direction, have a 50% chance of getting it right or wrong.


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## Karthik Eyan

dougms3 said:


> Have you tried flipping the fuse?
> 
> It usually sounds better in a specific direction, have a 50% chance of getting it right or wrong.


Ya tried. No change.


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## dougms3

Karthik Eyan said:


> Ya tried. No change.


Thats a weird one then.

Maybe its a faulty fuse?


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## DaveStarWalker

Strange indeed.🤔

I found the Blue's better than Black's. Everything. 

And from now on, I am using Purple's = really, really, really (...) good. 👍


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## ChJL

In the Gustard X26 pro (U18 as well) thread most who changed the fuse prefer the SR Purple.
Funny enough I can't remember anyone in the Ferrum thread even mentioning changing their Hypsos fuse... Isn't the Oor's fuse not changeable?
The Devices I'm thinking about tweaking...
Anyone experience with these devices in here?


----------



## Seamaster

ChJL said:


> In the Gustard X26 pro (U18 as well) thread most who changed the fuse prefer the SR Purple.
> Funny enough I can't remember anyone in the Ferrum thread even mentioning changing their Hypsos fuse... Isn't the Oor's fuse not changeable?
> The Devices I'm thinking about tweaking...
> Anyone experience with these devices in here?


It depends on your system, I am still using the old AMR gold fuse, Created Audio, and Gold Hi Fi Tuning, never seen the needs to replace them, I am really careful not put N th degree of details, wide sound stage, sharp/clear leading edges, and…… the list is long into my system, I have enough detail, I don’t need to hear every scratch in my record, LOL


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## dougms3

ChJL said:


> In the Gustard X26 pro (U18 as well) thread most who changed the fuse prefer the SR Purple.
> Funny enough I can't remember anyone in the Ferrum thread even mentioning changing their Hypsos fuse... Isn't the Oor's fuse not changeable?
> The Devices I'm thinking about tweaking...
> Anyone experience with these devices in here?


Although I hate spending triple digit money on stuff that I can accidentally inhale.  I think the fuse is a pretty important thing and not something to skimp on.

If you think about it, all of the power coming into the device is going through that fuse first, because its a FUSE its designed to protect the device.   The conductor pops if there is a surge thats more than the device can handle.

It makes sense that it is going to affect the sound since the material inside the fuse has its own resistance, capacitance, inductance, etc.

I myself upgraded the stock fuse in my denafrips ares ii to a telos fuse.  It did provide a nice little upgrade in the sound, I can't remember specifically the details but it definitely improved enough to warrant the cost.  I debated whether or not to get the SR orange or purple but I really did not want to spend the money on it.  I think its better if I don't know...


----------



## johnjen

Seamaster said:


> It depends on your system, I am still using the old AMR gold fuse, Created Audio, and Gold Hi Fi Tuning, never seen the needs to replace them, I am really careful not put N th degree of details, wide sound stage, sharp/clear leading edges, and…… the list is long into my system, I have enough detail, I don’t need to hear every scratch in my record, LOL


Just my 2¢.
Fuses like many other upgrades can indeed provide additional "N th degree of details, wide sound stage, sharp/clear leading edges, and……" but, for me anyway, it's not about the individual details etc, but rather the sum total change to the music itself, ergo it's, 'the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts', sorta thing.

Those technical details are noteworthy for sure, but for me its about how the music is presented, how it draws me in, how it can force me to keep listening (I call this trait *SuperDuperGlue  *http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/210#post_12265107
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/615#post_12706695  )

Put another way, how is the music changed, is it for the better, or is there just a difference?

The SR PurpFuse in my PurpAmp while taking many many hrs to full settle in, does help me enjoy my music all the more and that, for me anyway, is what matters.

And yeah spending triple digit $'s for an expendable safety 'link' does irk me ("I hate spending triple digit money on stuff that I can accidentally inhale" hahahahahahahahahaha) and fuses ARE a 'choke point' for sure. (*CP  *http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/105#post_12113288 http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/510#post_12646260   ). 

And since I'm used to spending 25¢ NOT $200 for a throwaway bit of tiny wire after it's given it's all to do it's job, I keep thinking of how many more fuses could be sold IF they were more reasonably priced, and how many more listeners would be willing to try them in the 1st place.

Mores the pity I suppose.

JJ


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## johnjen (Jul 9, 2022)

Karthik Eyan said:


> Hi all
> May I ask if any Hidiamond powerchord owners experimented with audiophile fuses ?
> I use a Uk power chord which has a fuse in the plug. I recently upgraded the cheap 2 cent busman to SR BLUE and it just sucked the life out of my music. I waited for weeks. Nope the sound stayed the same.
> I changed the fuse back to busman and the life returned in my music.
> ...


I looked into the Hidiamond power chords on their web site and they don't even mention having a  built in fuse, at least that I could find anyway.
And I've never heard of a detachable power cable having a built in fuse before, which makes me wonder why they did that in the 1st place.

And since the audio device it's powering has to be fused in the 1st place, I'd be tempted to try using a shorting plug instead of any fuse, just to find out what if any audible differences there would be in that case.
AND try putting the SR Blue fuse in the device while the shorting plug is in the power cable as well.

IOW double fusing a power feed, while perhaps being extra cautious, seems like it would, or at least could, hamper the instantaneous current flow delivery to the device it's powering, which in my understanding, after deeply looking into this facet of power delivery, is not a 'good thing'.

Of course YMMV…

JJ


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## Ufanco (Jul 12, 2022)

Interesting thread I do believe cable have an affect on sound but fuses are little harder to believe. I do have a open mind so considered buying one to see if makes any differences. Have to say kinda shocked at the price’s.

 For example I found a fuse (Synergistic SR20 SLOW SMALL 2A) Even at half price of $30.00 that seemed high? Then on top of that they want to charge you over $20.00 to ship 1 fuse. Is this normal and is there anywhere that sells a descent fuse at a more reasonable price? 
Sorry just new the the whole fuse world and want to least give it a shot. Wondering would I do better on head fi classified? Any advise would be appreciated on where to shop or what is a decent starter fuse.


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## Seamaster

Used Synergistic SR20 when they first came out maybe 10 years ago, anyway, it was a long time ago, the fuse changed the image shape and sound stage too much, the music flow was not natural.


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## TheAttorney (Jul 10, 2022)

Seamaster said:


> Used Synergistic SR20 when they first came out maybe 10 years ago, anyway, it was a long time ago, the fuse changed the image shape and sound stage too much, the music flow was not natural.


Based on limited experience a long time ago, I wouldn't bother with the SR20. I think SR Red is the minimum start point to get a worthwhile improvement, and each higher colour is better, with Purple being best. Yes they're expensive for the apparent material content, but it is what it is.

Sometimes suppliers give discounts on certain colours, eg futureshop currently has the Black at less than the Red. To find suppliers local to your country, try googling, for example, "Synergistic Red fuse UK"

EDIT: The lowest two QSA colours are reasonably priced (for an audiophile fuse!) and have got some good reviews.
I haven't tried any yet, but on reflection, this is where I'd go if wanted to stay below £100 for a fuse.


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## Ufanco (Jul 10, 2022)

Thanks for the quick responses, guess I need to read up more before deciding on making a change to a different fuse. It took me awhile to find tubes and cables for system that worked. 

So basically it’s not till you get up in the $100 range that you begin to see worthwhile SQ changes? If anyone has any fuse there no longer using and looking to sell please msg me. 
It’s for a ares ii.  The stock fuse is a slow blow 2A 5x20mm fuse 250v picture below. Thanks.


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## johnjen (Jul 11, 2022)

Ufanco said:


> Thanks for the quick responses, guess I need to read up more before deciding on making a change to a different fuse. It took me awhile to find tubes and cables for system that worked.
> 
> So basically it’s not till you get up in the $100 range that you begin to see worthwhile SQ changes? If anyone has any fuse there no longer using and looking to sell please msg me.
> It’s for a ares ii.  The stock fuse is a slow blow 2A 5x20mm fuse 250v picture below. Thanks.


There are several low cost (as in ≈$20+) fuses available.
And it depends upon their effectiveness as to whether they will provide any satisfactory results, which is something only you can decide.

Put another way, YES this is another rabbit hole that you can jump into, or not, much like tubes and cables etc.

And fuses, especially, have improved substantially over the years and most of the 'good ones' do have a money back guarantee for the cost of the fuse (but not return shipping).
This makes it easier to experiment, but not entirely painless.

Also remember that all fuses can be/are 'polarized' and it would appear even the cheap stock ¢25 ones can sound better in one direction vs the other.
This 'trait' seems to be even more pronounced with the expensive fuses.

Do some research from the various after market vendors and compare prices, but if the budget allows a SR red/blue/black fuse while jumping over the $20+ low cost offerings it will usually be an eye opener, and save several intermediate steps.

Just say'n is all.

JJ


----------



## dougms3

Ufanco said:


> Thanks for the quick responses, guess I need to read up more before deciding on making a change to a different fuse. It took me awhile to find tubes and cables for system that worked.
> 
> So basically it’s not till you get up in the $100 range that you begin to see worthwhile SQ changes? If anyone has any fuse there no longer using and looking to sell please msg me.
> It’s for a ares ii.  The stock fuse is a slow blow 2A 5x20mm fuse 250v picture below. Thanks.


https://acmeaudiolabs.com/products

I have not tried it myself but Acme audio makes some inexpensive fuses, if your goal to try something out to see what the difference is.


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## Ufanco

Thanks for the help found a great deal on a SR blue. Worse case is there no differences and I will return it. Hopefully there be some improvements, I figure only way to tell is to test it with my system.


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## DaveStarWalker (Jul 11, 2022)

Sr Blue are very, very good. Impossible that you ear nothing, but some real (GREAT) improvement(s).

So it was the case with my system (see my signature).

But... No magic. It is like a revelator : if there are some problems...


----------



## EMINENT

ChJL said:


> In the Gustard X26 pro (U18 as well) thread most who changed the fuse prefer the SR Purple.
> Funny enough I can't remember anyone in the Ferrum thread even mentioning changing their Hypsos fuse... Isn't the Oor's fuse not changeable?
> The Devices I'm thinking about tweaking...
> Anyone experience with these devices in here?


Yes, I have in my Hypsos as well as others. US ones are only single. EU I believe take 2.


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## Ufanco

DaveStarWalker said:


> Sr Blue are very, very good. Impossible that you ear nothing, but some real (GREAT) improvement(s).
> 
> So it was the case with my system (see my signature).
> 
> But... No magic. It is like a revelator : if there are some problems...



Wow you have some nice gear! mine’s not that nice but still I’m so looking forward to seeing what the blue will add to it.


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## ChJL

EMINENT said:


> Yes, I have in my Hypsos as well as others. US ones are only single. EU I believe take 2.


On page 15 it shows 2 fuses but the one inside the enclosure is specified as spare fuse...
Which one do you use now?


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## EMINENT

ChJL said:


> On page 15 it shows 2 fuses but the one inside the enclosure is specified as spare fuse...
> Which one do you use now?


The spare is just a spare stock one. I just left it there alone. Replaced the actual one with the purple.


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## Ufanco (Jul 20, 2022)

I received the SR blue fuse today, after trying it in both direction I decided that one way did sound more detailed decided to use it in that position. 

After listen to couple hours of music I knew there was something to the claims of a fuse improving sound. 
Music had more of a crispness and was more accurate in sound. My best way to describe it is the difference you hear going from a lower bitrate mp3 to a flac recording. 

Small details that normally where lost came became noticeable. The music is more dynamic and had more resolution to it.  Sound had more a musical quality and felt it improved on texture and PRaT compared to stock fuse. 
The ares ii already has a great soundstage this fuse still offered improvements, making it sound even more spacious.
In my mind the matter was settled with this fuse, I feel it’s a worthwhile upgrade in my system.
I had my doubts about the purchasing this item, but I find it’s already added improvement. Looking forward to hearing it once it’s fully burned in.

I’m sure others will say the improvements I hear are  due to the placebo effect or whatever. My response is it sound better to me and that’s all that matters when it comes my enjoyment of music. 
These fuse have a 30 day no question asked return policy.  Basically you have nothing to loss by trying one and deciding on your own of it’s offers value or not in your system. I bought mine from Chris over at VH Audio. They have sale going on for Synergistic


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## johnjen

Ufanco said:


> I received the SR blue fuse today, after trying it in both direction I decided that one way did sound more detailed decided to use it in that position.
> snip
> I had my doubts about the purchasing this item, but I find it’s already added improvement. Looking forward to hearing it once it’s fully burned in.
> 
> ...


It has been my experience that those who claim "placebo effect" either don't have sufficiently resolving systems, can't hear these sorts of fine details in the 1st place, or have never jumped down this rabbit hole with sufficient depth in order to know one way or the other.

And of course there are those who need measurements to know what is real in terms of SQ improvements and don't believe in their own ability to hear in the first place.

I ignore those who make such claims as irrelevant sources of any kind of useful information.

But then that's just me…
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

JJ


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## Ufanco

johnjen said:


> It has been my experience that those who claim "placebo effect" either don't have sufficiently resolving systems, can't hear these sorts of fine details in the 1st place, or have never jumped down this rabbit hole with sufficient depth in order to know one way or the other.
> 
> And of course there are those who need measurements to know what is real in terms of SQ improvements and don't believe in their own ability to hear in the first place.
> 
> ...



Had more time to listen and convinced there making a worthwhile improvement in my system. I asked the maker of my dac what directions electricity flowed and turned out the same way I heard that the fuss sound the best. 
There so much involved in the human hearing to say our current measurement machines can detect everything is something I  feel is naïve in thinking. 
Anyways last thing want to do is argue this with people. Find many people will tell you wrong but won’t test it out themself. In less you try out something you truly never know if there something there or not.


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## Seamaster

Ufanco said:


> I received the SR blue fuse today, after trying it in both direction I decided that one way did sound more detailed decided to use it in that position.
> 
> After listen to couple hours of music I knew there was something to the claims of a fuse improving sound.
> Music had more of a crispness and was more accurate in sound. My best way to describe it is the difference you hear going from a lower bitrate mp3 to a flac recording.
> ...


If the fuse is installed in a wrong direction, the sound will be odd. If the fuse's direction is not marked like Hi Fi Tuning, the general rule is look at/face the name and lettering, the direction is from left to right.


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## DaveStarWalker

No problem about the "good direction".
I was nervous about that, but it is very audible. Easy listening. 😉

Thus, the system must be accurate...


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## Somatic

EMINENT said:


> Yes, I have in my Hypsos as well as others. US ones are only single. EU I believe take 2.


I also changed it on the Hypsos. I like the change. Sounds like a solid upgrade.


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## Somatic

Seamaster said:


> If the fuse is installed in a wrong direction, the sound will be odd. If the fuse's direction is not marked like Hi Fi Tuning, the general rule is look at/face the name and lettering, the direction is from left to right.


I'm using SR Purple on the Hypsos. I checked with support and they didn't give me a definitive answer but he thinks this the flow direction for the fuse. My understanding for the SR Purple they go left to right S and end at R. Does this seem like the correct orientation. I don't want to go off my ear. Too much time in between to do a proper A/B.


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## EMINENT

Somatic said:


> I'm using SR Purple on the Hypsos. I checked with support and they didn't give me a definitive answer but he thinks this the flow direction for the fuse. My understanding for the SR Purple they go left to right S and end at R. Does this seem like the correct orientation. I don't want to go off my ear. Too much time in between to do a proper A/B.


This is how I have it.


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## Somatic (Sep 2, 2022)

With fuses, do you hear a difference with burn in? And is performance increase linear or does it get better then worse then better and slowly get to the final outcome after a windy road? Also, for use with Hypsos for example ... I don't need to play music through it to burn in? Can I just leave it on for 1 week? Thanks.


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## Lvivske

People who dive in to a lot of this stuff will naturally also believe literally _everything _has appreciable burn in benefits, so you kind of already know the answer


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## Somatic

ChJL said:


> In the Gustard X26 pro (U18 as well) thread most who changed the fuse prefer the SR Purple.
> Funny enough I can't remember anyone in the Ferrum thread even mentioning changing their Hypsos fuse... Isn't the Oor's fuse not changeable?
> The Devices I'm thinking about tweaking...
> Anyone experience with these devices in here?


Yes, HYPSOS fuse can be changed easily. Highly recommended.


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## dougms3

Somatic said:


> With fuses, do you hear a difference with burn in? And is performance increase linear or does it get better then worse then better and slowly get to the final outcome after a windy road? Also, for use with Hypsos for example ... I don't need to play music through it to burn in? Can I just leave it on for 1 week? Thanks.


I've noticed a difference with burn in, it doesn't seem to fluctuate but starts to open up after a few days, its gradual.  

You could probably just leave it on because as long as its on, all incoming power will go through that fuse.


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## johnjen

Somatic said:


> With fuses, do you hear a difference with burn in? And is performance increase linear or does it get better then worse then better and slowly get to the final outcome after a windy road? Also, for use with Hypsos for example ... I don't need to play music through it to burn in? Can I just leave it on for 1 week? Thanks.


As has been previously noted, the Purp fuses do take a considerable amount of time for 'Full Burn In', as the pamphlet that accompanies the Purp Fuse states "The first 200-300 hours of use are the most crucial."

And yes the SQ will shift and change during all of this, at least it did in my system.

JJ


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## vegan

Ufanco said:


> Thanks for the help found a great deal on a SR blue. Worse case is there no differences and I will return it. Hopefully there be some improvements, I figure only way to tell is to test it with my system.


I’m pretty certain this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but bears repeating: if you are not sure a fuse will make a difference, try replacing them with copper wire… if you hear a difference, you might want to try a fuse


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## DaveStarWalker (Sep 3, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I'm using SR Purple on the Hypsos. I checked with support and they didn't give me a definitive answer but he thinks this the flow direction for the fuse. My understanding for the SR Purple they go left to right S and end at R. Does this seem like the correct orientation. I don't want to go off my ear. Too much time in between to do a proper A/B.


Don't be afraid.

It really easy only by ear to know the right direction. 👌

Right direction? = everything is immediately better.

Wrong direction? = low end is not so precise, transients are "muted" (so to speak...), there is no 3d effect, etc.


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## Seamaster

Somatic said:


> With fuses, do you hear a difference with burn in? And is performance increase linear or does it get better then worse then better and slowly get to the final outcome after a windy road? Also, for use with Hypsos for example ... I don't need to play music through it to burn in? Can I just leave it on for 1 week? Thanks.


You have to play music or noise to let some current flow through the fuse to burn in, all the fuses I have their sound improve pretty linear.


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## DaveStarWalker

Yes.


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## Seamaster

Lvivske said:


> People who dive in to a lot of this stuff will naturally also believe literally _everything _has appreciable burn in benefits, so you kind of already know the answer


If the system is detailed enough, people will tell the difference, but the process is slow, the ears might adjust to the sound already that make it hard to tell. I had my preamp ordered new and listened it for a few days, then I hooked it up with a CDP, took the bottom cover off, placed a fan next to it to cool, I left it there for 395 hours, after that, I put it back into my system, Holy Shxxxt! A huge difference!


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## Seamaster (Sep 3, 2022)

If your system has 6 or more fuses, it is very hard to single out each one before you get really mad, sad, or just want to kick something!! I been there, just before I tired to kill myself, I took one step back look at the "industry standard" that is if you look at the fuse facing the logo letting in the right way, the direction of the fuse is from left to right. I did just that, I reseted all the fuses and then flip and listened to each one, everything was in order, the system sounded just right and engaging. This may not be 100% correct BUT you can get them at least 90% right then go from there. Good luck!

Griffin


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## Seamaster (Sep 3, 2022)

Somatic said:


> I'm using SR Purple on the Hypsos. I checked with support and they didn't give me a definitive answer but he thinks this the flow direction for the fuse. My understanding for the SR Purple they go left to right S and end at R. Does this seem like the correct orientation. I don't want to go off my ear. Too much time in between to do a proper A/B.




The direction in the pic/drawing above is backward


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## Seamaster

Like this:


----------



## Seamaster

How ever this is correct:


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## Somatic

Seamaster said:


> Like this:


Hmmm I see. Yeah Ferrum support was unsure and that my way was correct. I think they don’t believe fuses are directional. I’m going to have to A/B them. Are the differences very obvious?


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## johnjen (Sep 3, 2022)

Another way to perceive 'proper' fuse orientation is to think of the ac power as entering into the device with the fuse 'in line' with this flow.
So I orient the fuse so that this flow into the device follows the text on the fuse.
IOW as I read the text from left to right, that is the 'proper' direction of the flow of energy thru the fuse and into the device.

So with the fuse removed (and the ac power cable removed), I use a DVM to determine which pin of the IEC connection is directly connected to which of the two fuse holder pins, and that is the source of flow into the device, so the text on the fuse, as read, starts with that fuse holder pin.

Easy-peasy…

JJ


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## johnjen (Sep 3, 2022)

Somatic said:


> Hmmm I see. Yeah Ferrum support was unsure and that my way was correct. I think they don’t believe fuses are directional. I’m going to have to A/B them. Are the differences very obvious?


Depending upon the system it can be obvious right from the start.  However after 1-2hrs of operation (listening to music) it should be very apparent which direction is 'right'.

JJ


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## Seamaster

Somatic said:


> Hmmm I see. Yeah Ferrum support was unsure and that my way was correct. I think they don’t believe fuses are directional. I’m going to have to A/B them. Are the differences very obvious?



Ferrum support was smoking something, it is their fault to choose such odd ball socket. It is NOT the fuse sound REALLY bad then backward, they sound little artificial, awkward (unnatural), and MAY gain some dynamic and have wider soundstage when backward, yeah it is funny.


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## Somatic

johnjen said:


> Another way to perceive 'proper' fuse orientation is to think of the ac power as entering into the device with the fuse 'in line' with this flow.
> So I orient the fuse so that this flow into the device follows the text on the fuse.
> IOW as I read the text from left to right, that is the 'proper' direction of the flow of energy thru the fuse and into the device.
> 
> ...


This sounds like the best way. I’ll buy a DVM to double check the correct orientation. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

johnjen said:


> Another way to perceive 'proper' fuse orientation is to think of the ac power as entering into the device with the fuse 'in line' with this flow.
> So I orient the fuse so that this flow into the device follows the text on the fuse.
> IOW as I read the text from left to right, that is the 'proper' direction of the flow of energy thru the fuse and into the device.
> 
> ...


Looking to get a cheaper DVM from Amazon. Any suggestions?

Also any tips on how to operate? Thanks


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## johnjen (Sep 4, 2022)

You should be able to find a ≈$10-20 dvm from a whole bunch of sources, for example…
https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=digital voltage meter

All you really need it for, in this case, is the continuity/resistance check function.

As for operation, one set of pins should read at or very near 0.0 Ω's while others should read higher, or as 'open' (infinite).
So use the set of pins with the lowest reading.
Just make sure that the device is unplugged from the ac wall socket BEFORE you start poking around with your DVM probes.

JJ


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## DaveStarWalker

Somatic said:


> Hmmm I see. Yeah Ferrum support was unsure and that my way was correct. I think they don’t believe fuses are directional. I’m going to have to A/B them. Are the differences very obvious?


With the Sr fuses, it's obvious.

With other fuses, I just don't know. 😔


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## ChJL

johnjen said:


> Another way to perceive 'proper' fuse orientation is to think of the ac power as entering into the device with the fuse 'in line' with this flow.
> So I orient the fuse so that this flow into the device follows the text on the fuse.
> IOW as I read the text from left to right, that is the 'proper' direction of the flow of energy thru the fuse and into the device.
> 
> ...


So have you changed the fuse in a Hypsos? Measured it?
If yes, does the measurement agee with proposed Direction? Top=left, Bottom=right, meaning S on top R at the Bottom? Thanks!


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## ChJL (Sep 5, 2022)

So these guys have "mid Level" fuses for £620 and they put an arrow on them. In every other post people argue if fuses are directional or not...
easy peasy, right?


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## DaveStarWalker

ChJL said:


> So these guys have "mid Level" fuses for £620 and they put an arrow on them. In every other post people argue if fuses are directional or not...
> easy peasy, right?


The prices are totally crazy.

The most pricey must be about 9000 dollars.... 💵😂


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## Somatic

ChJL said:


> So these guys have "mid Level" fuses for £620 and they put an arrow on them. In every other post people argue if fuses are directional or not...
> easy peasy, right?


SR Purple are $200. I’m fine with this price. No arrow needed. They go from left to right. S to R


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## Somatic

ChJL said:


> So have you changed the fuse in a Hypsos? Measured it?
> If yes, does the measurement agee with proposed Direction? Top=left, Bottom=right, meaning S on top R at the Bottom? Thanks!


I am on vacation. Will check it out in 1 week or so. Will let you know the proper orientation. I’m A bit OCD about things like this. Haha


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## DaveStarWalker

Somatic said:


> SR Purple are $200. I’m fine with this price. No arrow needed. They go from left to right. S to R


The right direction is actually the direction of the writing. 😉


----------



## johnjen

ChJL said:


> So have you changed the fuse in a Hypsos? Measured it?
> If yes, does the measurement agee with proposed Direction? Top=left, Bottom=right, meaning S on top R at the Bottom? Thanks!


No, I don't own a Hypsos. 
But I have used this method for every other piece of gear that I have changed out the fuses with (amps, dacs, my AOIP system etc.)
And like I mentioned after ≈1hr of continuous listening and then swapping the fuse end for end it was rather obvious to me which way was 'correct' which is how I came up with the reading the text as the direction of flow of energy thru the fuse method.

But try it yourself and verify if this agrees with your own determination.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

ChJL said:


> So these guys have "mid Level" fuses for £620 and they put an arrow on them. In every other post people argue if fuses are directional or not...
> easy peasy, right?





DaveStarWalker said:


> The prices are totally crazy.
> 
> The most pricey must be about 9000 dollars.... 💵😂


I agree that the prices for these expendable 'safety' devices is out of line and WAY over the top.
And if the results weren't as great, I doubt I'd be even worrying about fussing with them, like at all.

As for arguing if they are "directional or not…"
For some folks they may not be and so the fuses can be readily returned.
But for those who have sufficiently resolving systems and enough listening experience to know what to listen for, fuses can open up a degree of resolution and inner detail that is hard to NOT enjoy.

But in this case, direct personal experience trumps all opinions, and as we all know arguing on the internet is rife with unverified opinions.

Of course YMMV and all that.

JJ


----------



## DaveStarWalker

johnjen said:


> I agree that the prices for these expendable 'safety' devices is out of line and WAY over the top.
> And if the results weren't as great, I doubt I'd be even worrying about fussing with them, like at all.
> 
> As for arguing if they are "directional or not…"
> ...



For me it's simple. In more than 25 years of audiophile journey, the fuses are the most incredible thing I know.

But like many other things, it's only interesting when the system is fully developed (ie balanced essentially).

If it's the case, it is just mind-blowing. 🤯

I stopped at the Purple (all my gears = 3,so it's OK... ). Before that, I had Blue everywhere and already I couldn't imagine how it could be even better. I was wrong. Amazing. Just amazed. 😱😎


----------



## bagwell359

Ummm.  I just rewire fuses and input caps right out of the way.  Purist!


----------



## Somatic

bagwell359 said:


> Ummm.  I just rewire fuses and input caps right out of the way.  Purist!


How do
You do this? Any it might fry your amp?


----------



## bagwell359 (Sep 7, 2022)

Somatic said:


> How do
> You do this? And it might fry your amp?


If you are not handy with a soldering iron and disassembling things and reinstalling them differently - don't do it. 

Fuses were a fine idea way back when.  But if you have some crummy fuse holder with some metal with poor resistance behavior with a meh solder job and a non linear fuse - well maybe you want to better that.  Watch out for resale if you can't reverse it.

Plus I haven't owned an amp, pre-amp, rec, not to mention speakers that were not rock solid since 1982-83 when I briefly owned an Electroacompaneit 25/25 and then a VTL 120 (807's).  I think I added fuses to those....😜


----------



## Somatic

johnjen said:


> You should be able to find a ≈$10-20 dvm from a whole bunch of sources, for example…
> https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=digital voltage meter
> 
> All you really need it for, in this case, is the continuity/resistance check function.
> ...


Would this work? Thanks. 

INNOVA 3320 Auto-Ranging Digital Multimeter https://a.co/d/j42VCOo


----------



## johnjen

Yes, it has the Ω test along with a myriad of other tests.

JJ


----------



## Seamaster

Somatic said:


> Would this work? Thanks.
> 
> INNOVA 3320 Auto-Ranging Digital Multimeter https://a.co/d/j42VCOo


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SHLS639/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I just bought this one because I got tired replacing the 9V batteries, so far it is very accurate, specially when test capacitors.


----------



## Somatic

@johnjen @Seamaster 

New to using a DVM. Where do I connect the red wire? Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

Somatic said:


> @johnjen @Seamaster
> 
> New to using a DVM. Where do I connect the red wire? Thanks.


@johnjen @Seamaster

Ok figured it out. Watched some tutorial videos. Now I am wondering where do I stick these probes? Please advise. Thanks.

Edit: Damn Ferrum stack burned some rubber rings on my wooden desk lol


----------



## johnjen (Sep 15, 2022)

*Unplug the device from ac power*, then put the DVM into Ω mode (which is also the continuity test mode) and use the 2 probes to find the one IEC connection that shows a reading of 0.0Ω (or very close to that) to one end of the fuse holder *without any fuse installed*.

Or use the DVM's continuity test and wait for the beep when the 'correct' IEC connection and the 'correct' end of the fuse holder are being touched by the 2 probes.
It doesn't matter which probe is used for which connection.

The IEC connector has 3 pins and* the 'center' pin is ground, you do not need to test that pin*, which leaves the other 2 pins to test to either end of the 'empty' fuse holder connections.

When the DVM beeps and or show's 0.0Ω, that fuse holder connection is the 'source of power' side of the fuse holder and so the beginning of the text (as you read it) on the fuse should connect to that fuse connection.

JJ


----------



## Somatic

johnjen said:


> *Unplug the device from ac power*, then put the DVM into Ω mode (which is also the continuity test mode) and use the 2 probes to find the one IEC connection that shows a reading of 0.0Ω (or very close to that) to one end of the fuse holder *without any fuse installed*.
> 
> Or use the DVM's continuity test and wait for the beep when the 'correct' IEC connection and the 'correct' end of the fuse holder are being touched by the 2 probes.
> It doesn't matter which probe is used for which connection.
> ...


Ok in Ω mode, only that combination has a signal. Doesn't say 0.0Ω ... just fluctuates with a bunch of different numbers. All the other combinations do not have signal.

Does this mean source in the bottom of this fuse holder? If so, I have my fuse backwards. Thanks.


----------



## Somatic

Somatic said:


> Ok in Ω mode, only that combination has a signal. Doesn't say 0.0Ω ... just fluctuates with a bunch of different numbers. All the other combinations do not have signal.
> 
> Does this mean source in the bottom of this fuse holder? If so, I have my fuse backwards. Thanks.


Hmm I switched the fuse the other way from everything sounded less dynamic, flat, less air and bass response. The way I had it sounds better to my ears. Hmmm.


----------



## johnjen

When the 2 leads from the DVM are connected together, in the Ω mode, THEN the reading will read 0.0Ω (or close to it).

There is no signal in this test and only when the 2 leads are 'shorted together' will the reading be stable with a very small reading, (0.0 or close to it).


So go with the fuse in the original position where it sounds better and run the device to accumulate hrs of use to complete the 'break in' process.

JJ


----------



## No Deal

I was highly skeptical about the improvement that could be obtained by installing the Purple Fuse in my WA-2. Now, I'm a believer. Listening to Sade's 1998 "Stronger Than Pride" recording.  It has never sounded better.


----------



## johnjen

Many people all to easily dismiss such simple things as fuses, cables etc.  And it is understandable why they would do so.
Except…
Any personal experience by experimenting with them CAN result in an eye opening revealing of subtle nuances that belie 'logic' or 'common sense'. 
These previous assumptions based upon a lack of experience with these sorts of changes are all to common for the numbers are real crowd.

And to be clear not every one's system WILL reveal changes, let alone will these changes be experienced as being 'better', for them.

BUT that such a small device, one seemingly so innocuous and 'innocent' as a fuse, could change the sonic presentation, and demonstrably so, does seemingly push the boundaries of believability, that is until it is directly experienced for ones self.

This same 'try it and see for yourself' approach does seem to 'challenge' (and in some cases threaten) some folks's personal authority, at least as they see it in the eye's of others.

So it comes down to, do you listen to music because it is enjoyable, or is the enjoyment based upon the reinforcement of ones knowledge of personal identity?

To wit, I ran across this bit of wisdom…





JJ


----------



## Somatic

johnjen said:


> When the 2 leads from the DVM are connected together, in the Ω mode, THEN the reading will read 0.0Ω (or close to it).
> 
> There is no signal in this test and only when the 2 leads are 'shorted together' will the reading be stable with a very small reading, (0.0 or close to it).
> 
> ...


Hmmm so both leads would be touching the same AC prong? Thanks.


----------



## Somatic (Sep 23, 2022)

SR Purples started off much more warmer and maybe slightly muffled at first usage. After burn-in i feel it is very detailed and lost some of that nice warmth. Anyone else heard this? Thanks.

Edit: When you have the SR Purples the wrong way. Do you lose bass. Voices sound honky? Just sounds artificial and wrong?


----------



## Ufanco

Somatic said:


> SR Purples started off much more warmer and maybe slightly muffled at first usage. After burn-in i feel it is very detailed and lost some of that nice warmth. Anyone else heard this? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: When you have the SR Purples the wrong way. Do you lose bass. Voices sound honky? Just sounds artificial and wrong?


I found the sound improved after they where burned in. Give them some time to settle in and then try them in the other direction. SR suggested 150 of burn in. Of course can reverse them early and decide what sounds better.


----------



## IanB52

Somatic said:


> SR Purples started off much more warmer and maybe slightly muffled at first usage. After burn-in i feel it is very detailed and lost some of that nice warmth. Anyone else heard this? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: When you have the SR Purples the wrong way. Do you lose bass. Voices sound honky? Just sounds artificial and wrong?


This was absolutely my experience. At first it almost sounded like tubes and then became more transparent after around 250hrs. Granted it is a thick sounding fuse period, but the first 100 hrs or so was very colored.

When the fuse is in the wrong way I'd say it sounds a bit harsher, less coherent, less detail, and a little less bass.


----------



## Somatic

IanB52 said:


> This was absolutely my experience. At first it almost sounded like tubes and then became more transparent after around 250hrs. Granted it is a thick sounding fuse period, but the first 100 hrs or so was very colored.
> 
> When the fuse is in the wrong way I'd say it sounds a bit harsher, less coherent, less detail, and a little less bass.


I honestly didn't mind it being so colored. Miss the added warmth. Any fuse thats known to be very warm?


----------



## IanB52

Somatic said:


> I honestly didn't mind it being so colored. Miss the added warmth. Any fuse thats known to be very warm?


Those are definitely the warmest that I know of. If you are part way through the burn-in cycle, the overall sound will get better, if with less warmth.


----------



## johnjen

Somatic said:


> Hmmm so both leads would be touching the same AC prong? Thanks.


No, one lead would be on an IEC 'prong' and the other on a fuse 'prong' and then try different combinations of 'prongs' to find the lowest Ω reading.

JJ


----------



## johnjen

To fully know what any fuse will provide for your system you DO need to fully break it in.
And the Purp fuses need plenty of operational hrs of run time.  
Sometimes even more than the manufacturer recommends.

JJ


----------



## Ufanco

Somatic said:


> I honestly didn't mind it being so colored. Miss the added warmth. Any fuse thats known to be very warm?


Depending on how much added warmth you need it might be better to add a tube amp to system than looking for a fuse that adds warmth. 
If not wanting to spend a lot look into something like the loxjie P20 it was my starting tube amp and gives you a taste of what tubes add to the SQ.


----------



## BIG POPPA

now you guys are gonna make me get the SR Purples


----------



## johnjen

Ufanco said:


> Depending on how much added warmth you need it might be better to add a tube amp to system than looking for a fuse that adds warmth.
> If not wanting to spend a lot look into something like the loxjie P20 it was my starting tube amp and gives you a taste of what tubes add to the SQ.


And to add my 2.5¢ (inflation doncha know) tubes can add much more than just warmth, as in bass emphasis.
When done 'properly' tubes can add additional SQ enhancements that go far beyond mere frequency or tonal balance changes.

There can be additional 'richness' to the very nature of the individual instruments, and their placement in 3d and 4d space.
The very harmonic nature of the instruments and the music itself can be 'brought to life', so to speak, which I find most gratifying.

That isn't to say there aren't downsides, as there is with any 'trade off' but, for me at least, the enjoyment of the music takes a 'mutha may I' step up.

JJ


----------



## Ufanco

Agree, I currently using the xduoo TA20 it’s not that expensive and has added some nice system improvements. I use tubes and cables verse using an Equalizer to fine-tune the SQ to my liking.


----------



## johnjen

BIG POPPA said:


> now you guys are gonna make me get the SR Purples


And now the Purp fuses are on 'sale' as in buy 2 get a third 'free', which of course means there is yet another improvement inbound for even more $$$.

JJ


----------



## rsbrsvp

Hi.  I'm new to the "fuse" talk.    Putting price issues aside, does everyone agree these purple fuses make things better or is it "different" rather than better?   Or is it "placebo" and there is NO difference?

What is the general consensus?   Also- if these fuses make a difference, in a few short words- how would users describe the differences?

Also- If I could replace all my fuses in my system with these Purple or add- say a Etherregen for the same price- which would you do?


----------



## IanB52 (Nov 6, 2022)

rsbrsvp said:


> Hi.  I'm new to the "fuse" talk.    Putting price issues aside, does everyone agree these purple fuses make things better or is it "different" rather than better?   Or is it "placebo" and there is NO difference?
> 
> What is the general consensus?   Also- if these fuses make a difference, in a few short words- how would users describe the differences?
> 
> Also- If I could replace all my fuses in my system with these Purple or add- say a Etherregen for the same price- which would you do?


Things aren't always straightforward because they generally will both increase the sound quality _and_ add their own flavor. Also, it depends on the fuse you are replacing. Some manufacturers install pretty good ones. I've never found one better than the aftermarket ones like SR, but in at least one case the tonal balance of the stock fuse suited the amp better.

I think the fuses will make more of a difference than an Etherregen.

I'd say the descriptors are similar to with a high end power cable, more resolution, more punch, more black background, less noise, less grain. I'd say the SR fuses add significant bass quantity as well.


----------



## rsbrsvp

IanB52 said:


> Things aren't always straightforward because they generally will both increase the sound quality _and_ add their own flavor. Also, it depends on the fuse you are replacing. Some manufacturers install pretty good ones. I've never found one better than the aftermarket ones like SR, but in at least one case the tonal balance of the stock fuse suited the amp better.
> 
> I think the fuses will make more of a difference than an Etherregen.
> 
> I'd say the descriptors are similar to with a high end power cable, more resolution, more punch, more black background, less noise, less grain. I'd say the SR fuses add significant bass quantity as well.


thank you....


----------



## Forgisound

Has anyone compared SR and Gustard fuses?


----------



## rsbrsvp

I just replaced my fuses from stock to SR purple.

Definitely much more detail- immediately; but I think my ears were used to the rounder sound.   I need time to get used to these.  Technically very superior; but perhaps to much of a good thing.


----------



## Forgisound

I ordered SR Orange.  Because I got a 50% discount.  For amp, preamp and DAC.  Probably not as good as purple.  But before purple, orange was the best SR, right?  Has anyone listened to both?


----------



## jonathan c

rsbrsvp said:


> I just replaced my fuses from stock to SR purple.
> 
> Definitely much more detail- immediately; but I think my ears were used to the rounder sound.   I need time to get used to these.  Technically very superior; but perhaps to much of a good thing.


Also, the fuses will need time to ‘break in’. Best to play music (not test tones etc) at low volume for that purpose.


----------



## IanB52

Forgisound said:


> I ordered SR Orange.  Because I got a 50% discount.  For amp, preamp and DAC.  Probably not as good as purple.  But before purple, orange was the best SR, right?  Has anyone listened to both?


I have owned both. I personally prefer the frequency balance in the Orange because it is more balanced and punchy. But I use the Purple because the overall sound quality and richness are better and it is very musical. I wish there was something in between, because they are quite different. In a way, life was simpler before I heard the Purple. 

The SR Orange is excellent and Purple brings improvement, _and_ also much more midrange emphasis and weight that isn't always what you want. I think you will be happy with the Orange.


----------



## dougms3

IanB52 said:


> I have owned both. I personally prefer the frequency balance in the Orange because it is more balanced and punchy. But I use the Purple because the overall sound quality and richness are better and it is very musical. I wish there was something in between, because they are quite different. In a way, life was simpler before I heard the Purple.
> 
> The SR Orange is excellent and Purple brings improvement, _and_ also much more midrange emphasis and weight that isn't always what you want. I think you will be happy with the Orange.


Just curious, how much of a difference would you say it makes from the orange vs purple?

If you had to quantify it as a percentage?


----------



## Lvivske

jonathan c said:


> Also, the fuses will need time to ‘break in’. Best to play music (not test tones etc) at low volume for that purpose.



You have a fuse in your signal path?


----------



## IanB52

dougms3 said:


> dougms3 said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious, how much of a difference would you say it makes from the orange vs purple?
> ...



I'd say they are at least 30% different from each other. I can't quantify it as an absolute percentage.


----------



## LoryWiv

As a fuse newbie, wondering which part of my chain would benefit most from fuse replacement: DAC, DDC, OTL amp, or should I consider upgrading fuses on all of them? Thanks!


----------



## TheAttorney

The SR Orange is great all round, but the Purple is better all round. 
I can't quantify this in numbers, but if I was buying from scratch, I'd pay the extra for the Purple. And if I already had an Orange, I'd hang onto it for a while and wait for the next new colour that will probably be raved over.

I've not noticed any pecking order of component type that most benefits from a fuse upgrade. Be prepared to upgrade all components.
I would probably start with the highest powered component with the highest rated fuse. I could then briefly try that fuse in all the other components to guage its impact in each case. This won't work the other way round.


----------



## johnjen (Nov 22, 2022)

Depending upon your budget of course, I'd start with the power amp then move to the dac and ddc last.

Why?
Because the power draw from the amp is the most dynamic while the digital devices use a more consistent amount of ac power.

These 'tweako' fuses tend to 'favor' the changing demands for power (the amp) over the more steady supply of current that the digital devices present to the fuse.

But if you want to shotgun them all at the same time, the break-in time, overall, will be less since they will all be settling in at the same time.

JJ


----------



## Lvivske

LoryWiv said:


> As a fuse newbie, wondering which part of my chain would benefit most from fuse replacement: DAC, DDC, OTL amp, or should I consider upgrading fuses on all of them? Thanks!



Whatever costs the most money.


----------



## dougms3

IanB52 said:


> I'd say they are at least 30% different from each other. I can't quantify it as an absolute percentage.


Wow that's a pretty big difference.

I understand it's difficult to qualify it as a number though.

Just wanted to get an idea of how much of a difference it'd be.


----------



## analogTubeSound

Has anyone verified electrical measurements comparing the fuse types? I would probably start with a micro-ohm meter?

This should be quantifiable - Not subjective.


----------



## rsbrsvp (Nov 22, 2022)

I replaced my stock fuses in my dac and headphone amp with SR purple around 24 hours ago.

Detail is increased noticeably- but they are way to smooth and warm and rich sounding.  Honestly- sounds veiled compared to stock fuses. They lack the punch of the $1 stock fuses.  I tried both directions and chose the more detailed less veiled direction; but still way to smooth.  I lost my dynamic punch.......

Will this veil lift with burn-in?   I'm skeptical it will change by much.

I do agree that this fuse really changes the sound- but IMHO not for the good.   If I could keep the detail without the veil- I would be happier.

Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Forgisound

rsbrsvp said:


> I replaced my stock fuses in my dac and headphone amp with SR purple around 24 hours ago.
> 
> Detail is increased noticeably- but they are way to smooth and warm.  Honestly- sounds veiled compared to stock fuses. They lack the punch of the $1 stock fuses.  I tried both directions and chose the more detailed less veiled direction; but still way to smooth.  I lost my dynamic punch.......
> 
> ...


The advice is to let it play for 200+ hours.  Then compare.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Forgisound said:


> The advice is to let it play for 200+ hours.  Then compare.


For sure.  But even the manufacturer claims burn in does not have a huge effect.  Has anyone else experienced this overly rich sound from SR Purple? It sounds like tubes that went a bit to far...  Very non solid state.


----------



## Forgisound

rsbrsvp said:


> For sure.  But even the manufacturer claims burn in does not have a huge effect.  Has anyone else experienced this overly rich sound from SR Purple? It sounds like tubes that went a bit to far...  Very non solid state.


The sound will change.


----------



## analogTubeSound

Again has anyone measured the electrical characteristics... RE: latest discussion... Before and after burn in?


----------



## Forgisound

analogTubeSound said:


> Again has anyone measured the electrical characteristics... RE: latest discussion... Before and after burn in?


Can you guide us, what exactly and how should we measure?


----------



## analogTubeSound (Nov 22, 2022)

Forgisound said:


> Can you guide us, what exactly and how should we measure?


Well i would probably start with basic measurements... Micro-Ohm, Micro-L, etc...

But for audio quality the best approach would probably be to take a scope on the input and on the ouput of the fuse and see if there is a difference in the waveforms. If we are talking 1-2% you are not going to see a difference. But 30%? Sure...! Essentially measure the frequency response under load of the system with and without the fuse. (Solid copper as replacement).


----------



## IanB52

rsbrsvp said:


> For sure.  But even the manufacturer claims burn in does not have a huge effect.  Has anyone else experienced this overly rich sound from SR Purple? It sounds like tubes that went a bit to far...  Very non solid state.


I made the exact same comment when I first got mine. After 100 hrs they dont sound so much like tubes, and it takes about 250 to complete. That said, I find them to always be warm and midrange heavy.


----------



## analogTubeSound

Someone please quantify this or it is vaporware... (i am being direct- yes. This includes the mfger)


----------



## IanB52

analogTubeSound said:


> Well i would probably start with basic measurements... Micro-Ohm, Micro-L, etc...
> 
> But for audio quality the best approach would probably be to take a scope on the input and on the ouput of the fuse and see if there is a difference in the waveforms. If we are talking 1-2% you are not going to see a difference. But 30%? Sure...! Essentially measure the frequency response under load of the system with and without the fuse. (Solid copper as replacement).


Realistically, you would want to mic up your speakers, play some music, record it, and then do a spectral analysis or null test comparing with and without aftermarket fuse. I'm not sure just running some some sine waves is going to show you much.

But, I'm not going to do it because the difference is obvious enough for me. There are YouTube videos out there that you can reference.


----------



## analogTubeSound

IanB52 said:


> Realistically, you would want to mic up your speakers, play some music, record it, and then do a spectral analysis or null test comparing with and without aftermarket fuse. I'm not sure just running some some sine waves is going to show you much.
> 
> But, I'm not going to do it because the difference is obvious enough for me. There are YouTube videos out there that you can reference.


I understand but i think everyone would want to benefit from this data... especially when we are talking 200$ for simple fuses?


----------



## rsbrsvp

IanB52 said:


> I made the exact same comment when I first got mine. After 100 hrs they dont sound so much like tubes, and it takes about 250 to complete. That said, I find them to always be warm and midrange heavy.


My system is already very warm and this comment concerns me.   I was hoping for more dynamic punch- and in this one area- theses fuses are noticeably behind stock.  They just smoothen things out way to much.  Yes;- the detail increase is really stunning- but I need those harder edges that come with the stock.  Is there a fuse that brings out more detail than stock,- even if less than SR purple- that is colder sounding?


----------



## IanB52

rsbrsvp said:


> My system is already very warm and this comment concerns me.   I was hoping for more dynamic punch- and in this one area- theses fuses are noticeably behind stock.  They just smoothen things out way to much.  Yes;- the detail increase is really stunning- but I need those harder edges that come with the stock.  Is there a fuse that brings out more detail than stock,- even if less than SR purple- that is colder sounding?


Yes. The SR Orange is pretty much that.


----------



## rsbrsvp

IanB52 said:


> Yes. The SR Orange is pretty much that.


Thank you....


----------



## johnjen (Nov 23, 2022)

analogTubeSound said:


> Someone please quantify this or it is vaporware... (i am being direct- yes. This includes the mfger)


Making the assumption that a static or simple based resistance measurement is directly related to SQ is, in my experience and understanding, misleading at best and at worst completely irrelevant.

Why?
Because we are talking about listening to music which is not a simple, nor static, nor easily quantifiable endeavor.
Expecting to use wholly inadequate tools to evaluate a complex interaction is fraught with erroneous conclusions.

There is a means to more accurately evaluate the benefits of fuses and that is to listen to the changes they deliver, or not.
Yes it is subjective, but then so is listening to music in the first place.

And if you NEED to attribute numbers to the changes that fuses can make, I invite you to do so for yourself and share your results with the rest of us.
And besides, even if I were to calculate a set of numbers, would they necessarily apply to you and your setup?
And to create and claim a single number, such as 30% means nothing by itself without context, and without some form of description as to what changed by 30% makes this single number relatively meaningless, which takes us back to the complexity of music in the first place.

The solution to the fundamental question you have, which has oft been repeated, is to try using a 'tweako' fuse in your system and find out, for yourself, IF they provide a suitable improvement, or not.

After all it's not rocket surgery nor brain science.

JJ
ps I have looked at the waveforms of the input voltage and current draw into a power amp and there is less information contained in such measurements than is meaningful in this case, not to mention the difficulty and expense of doing so.


----------



## rsbrsvp

Th SR Purple will turn a SS system into a world class Tube style sound without the need for tubes and without slowing things down to much.  Deep, layered, holographic, warm, ultra smooth 3-D sound with incredible inner detail.   Perfect for Jazz and Classical...  Better than any tube amp or tube preamp I ever heard- and less expensive....

Not for rock and roll.......IMHO...


----------



## TheAttorney

rsbrsvp said:


> My system is already very warm and this comment concerns me.   I was hoping for more dynamic punch- and in this one area- theses fuses are noticeably behind stock.  They just smoothen things out way to much.  Yes;- the detail increase is really stunning- but I need those harder edges that come with the stock.  Is there a fuse that brings out more detail than stock,- even if less than SR purple- that is colder sounding?


I've never noticed over-smoothing with either the SR Orange or Purple - just a more "natural" presentation. But with so many system and person variables, everyone's mileage varies. Fuse direction does affect this aspect of presentation

If you specifically want a more detailed and forward presentation (in a similar price and performance bracket to the above), then the QSA Yellow provides this - according to other fuse enthusiasts  - I haven't tried it myself.

But I'm curious that your start point is already "very warm". Many audiophiles spend much of their time trying to chase away "digital glare" etc, and they find it's not easy to do if they don't want to also lose detail and dynamics in the process.


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## rsbrsvp (Nov 23, 2022)

TheAttorney said:


> I've never noticed over-smoothing with either the SR Orange or Purple - just a more "natural" presentation. But with so many system and person variables, everyone's mileage varies. Fuse direction does affect this aspect of presentation
> 
> If you specifically want a more detailed and forward presentation (in a similar price and performance bracket to the above), then the QSA Yellow provides this - according to other fuse enthusiasts  - I haven't tried it myself.
> 
> But I'm curious that your start point is already "very warm". Many audiophiles spend much of their time trying to chase away "digital glare" etc, and they find it's not easy to do if they don't want to also lose detail and dynamics in the process.


Two things create natural rich warmth for me.

1.  Hibik SDS dac- extraordinarily saturated and warm.... is my source.
2.  Muon streaming system.

I have indeed found that direction matters a lot.   What I perceive as the correct direction is smoother and more natural.  What I perceive as the wrong way is punchier- like I want- but looses the magic of the other direction.

 And after more burn -in I agree that it not overly warm and perhaps "natural" with "moderate warmth" would be my current reality.   Hope to see what 100 hours does..


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## rsbrsvp (Nov 23, 2022)

I perceive the directions for SR Purple as follows:

1,  Brighter, more solidity of sound, more forward.
2. Darker, smoother, more layered, more holographic.

Which is the intended direction?


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## johnjen (Nov 23, 2022)

Have you accumulated close to 200+hrs yet?
If not, I'd use the 'go with the flow' technique.
That being, the current should flow thru the fuse in the direction of the wording on the fuse itself.

Then decide…

JJ


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## rsbrsvp

johnjen said:


> Have you accumulated close to 200+hrs yet?
> If not, I'd use the 'go with the flow' technique.
> That being, the current should flow thru the fuse in the direction of the wording on the fuse itself.
> 
> ...



Around 40 hours.  I'll give it a good full week more of burn-in before deciding on direction.


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## johnjen

rsbrsvp said:


> Around 40 hours.  I'll give it a good full week more of burn-in before deciding on direction.


Just an added thought to consider.
The fuse direction that you use, if 'backwards' will take additional time to 'undo' before the fuse will reach optimal SQ.

This comes from experience.

JJ


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## IanB52

IMO, if it sounds really thick and bassy, that is the correct way. The wrong way usually sounds more harsh and thin.


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## rsbrsvp

IanB52 said:


> IMO, if it sounds really thick and bassy, that is the correct way. The wrong way usually sounds more harsh and thin.


Thant is my current view.  Thick, bassy, layered, smooth is correct.   Harsh, forward, brighter is wrong direction.  At least that is what my ears like.  Still want to experiment in a week and switch them once more.


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## analogTubeSound

johnjen said:


> Making the assumption that a static or simple based resistance measurement is directly related to SQ is, in my experience and understanding, misleading at best and at worst completely irrelevant.
> 
> Why?
> Because we are talking about listening to music which is not a simple, nor static, nor easily quantifiable endeavor.
> ...


Understand on static measurements...

But the frequency response curves of the system with/without fuses should tell you everything, no?


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## IanB52

analogTubeSound said:


> Understand on static measurements...
> 
> But the frequency response curves of the system with/without fuses should tell you everything, no?


I'd say no. You probably would want an impulse plot to measure change in transient response, and some way of measuring a change in the noise floor, or modulated noise which is much harder to isolate. That said, you will see differences in the frequency response.


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## johnjen (Nov 26, 2022)

analogTubeSound said:


> Understand on static measurements...
> 
> But the frequency response curves of the system with/without fuses should tell you everything, no?


The frequency response measurement itself is still a 'static' measurement, which is unlike music.

We are talking subtle nuances of phase and other circuitry response characteristics (slew rate, overall phase response, as well as possible impedance mismatches etc), due to the constantly changing voltage, current, waveform shape and frequency, all at the same time.
IOW we're talking about how well the circuitry can handle subtle nuances of the original music signal AND to see if we can make an 'improvement' to the devices SQ ability, all at the same time.

And when you think about it, ALL of the energy to deliver ALL of our music to us, MUST pass thru the fuse(s).
And so they can perceived as a 'choke point' (*CP*), a place where EVERYTHING downstream of each *CP* can be, will be, does get, affected, in some form or other.
And in some cases these *CP's* can actually make an audible impact on SQ that while seemingly subtle can add an inordinate amount of pleasure while listening to music.

Fuses are an easily overlooked aspect of any design, _*after all their primary and only real important job*_ is keep your device from overcooking itself and causing a house fire.  
Ya know, fire damage and insurance claims and and all that.
RIGHT?

Uhmmm, no, not in all cases.

Fuses are amongst the most simple, straight forward and refundable (should you decide they don't work for you) 'tweak', that more often than not, anyone can implement to see if they are of any benefit, or not.

JJ


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## analogTubeSound

johnjen said:


> The frequency response measurement itself is still a 'static' measurement, which is unlike music.
> 
> We are talking subtle nuances of phase and other circuitry response characteristics (slew rate, overall phase response, as well as possible impedance mismatches etc), due to the constantly changing voltage, current, waveform shape and frequency, all at the same time.
> IOW we're talking about how well the circuitry can handle subtle nuances of the original music signal AND to see if we can make an 'improvement' to the devices SQ ability, all at the same time.
> ...


I am just having a hard time that a short piece of conductor can make such a difference in sound quality. call me a non-believer. I would like a way to see it. Their website says "quantum sound" bs lingo... There has to be a simple way to quantify a 200$ fuse link?


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## analogTubeSound




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## analogTubeSound

To be clear my point is not to say this product is scam. I just want to see some data. I would love someone or the MFG'r to post some data showing testing... That is all.... Without data opinions are easily persuaded by dollars spent in my experience.


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## IanB52

analogTubeSound said:


> To be clear my point is not to say this product is scam. I just want to see some data. I would love someone or the MFG'r to post some data showing testing... That is all.... Without data opinions are easily persuaded by dollars spent in my experience.


I think realistically, these fuses work, but nobody really knows why, hence the "quantum" marketing voodoo. There remains the question of what would be the most meaningful measurement for a fuse, from a manufacturer's perspective, as it is somewhat interactive with the component you put it in. From a consumer point of view I think measuring the whole system would tell a lot, but all systems are different.

It might be helpful if they published some data, but honestly I think from a business perspective they are selling a lot of these and want to maintain some mystique. Most people figure $150-200 isn't that big of a risk to try it, and I believe you can return them.


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## rangerid

For those that believe fuses make a difference and have SR Purple, how big of an improvement would you say it is over stock, like in realms of an upgraded headphone cable, power cord, interconnects? I'm considering it for my ARC preamp.


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## IanB52

rangerid said:


> For those that believe fuses make a difference and have SR Purple, how big of an improvement would you say it is over stock, like in realms of an upgraded headphone cable, power cord, interconnects? I'm considering it for my ARC preamp.


To me,  it's probably equivalent to a power cable upgrade.


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## johnjen

One of the more plausible 'explanations' for why fuses can make a difference is…

As ALL of the power that is used by our audio devices is channeled into a single 'short' chunk of wire or 'fuseable link', it will change it's operational characteristics.
As our devices demand current be drawn over said 'fuseable link' and so it gets heated up (slightly), and then cooled down, and this continues to happen repeatedly, and at the rate of the line frequency times 2, these conditions continuously change the 'response' of the fuse in terms of allowing current to pass as the heat is affecting the voltage and current simultaneously. 

IOW the current flows and then stops flowing (enough to cause a change in it's internal resistance and thus its internal heat generation is 'pulsed' and so the 'short chunk' of wire reacts to this pulsed heating and cooling, both physically and electrically, which can happen in either a rhythmic pattern, or more of a randomized fashion depending upon the power demands of the downstream device.

IOW some devices present a more or less steady demand for power (for instance digital devices) while power amps will vary their power needs based on a whole slew of operational factors.

And even if you wanted to monitor the 'short chunk' of wire in terms of voltage and current and heat and expansion etc. (which is an expensive proposition no matter how you do it) those ≈ 3-4ms 'ON' pulses followed by ≈8ms cool down 'OFF' periods, would be a complex interaction that few would grasp enough to understand how they all interact and also how they could tie into changes of SQ.

Thus the, 'try it for yourself, or not', advice.

And I do agree the advertising and marketing copy is over the top, nothing new there by any stretch, especially in audio.

The 'proof' is in the listening, not analyzing, measuring, discussing, pondering, expecting concrete answers, or absolute proof etc, etc.

Your choice.

JJ


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## Lvivske

analogTubeSound said:


> To be clear my point is not to say this product is scam. I just want to see some data. I would love someone or the MFG'r to post some data showing testing... That is all.... Without data opinions are easily persuaded by dollars spent in my experience.



I would suggest pulling up data on the 2nd Stage Rev. 2.0 Molecular realignment process


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## johnjen

Lvivske said:


> I would suggest pulling up data on the 2nd Stage Rev. 2.0 Molecular realignment process


AKA
Deep, weekend long, Cryogenic treatment…
😎

JJ


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## Claypole

Ok, so these audiophile grade fuses affect the mains electrical supply into the audio equipment in subtle ways that result in a change in the sound quality of the device.

However, a typical mains supply can vary in voltage by as much as +\- 10%. Wouldn't a voltage drop of that size affect the device at least as much, if not more than the fuse?

Also, what about the mains socket that the plug goes into? The connections could be of poor quality, which could also affect the device, and ultimately, sound quality. In fact, there could be all sorts of issues with a household electrical supply that could affect the end result.

So, what are people doing to ensure the power going through the fuse is as perfect as possible? Are you susing some kind of mains conditioner?


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## Lvivske

honestly I've heard enough recommendations to leave power standard and not to fuss with purifiers which can actually have a negative effect unless you're trying to solve for a noise issue


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## johnjen (Dec 6, 2022)

Claypole said:


> Ok, so these audiophile grade fuses affect the mains electrical supply into the audio equipment in subtle ways that result in a change in the sound quality of the device.
> 
> However, a typical mains supply can vary in voltage by as much as +\- 10%. Wouldn't a voltage drop of that size affect the device at least as much, if not more than the fuse?
> 
> ...


I have looked into these and other related issues and have written up my findings, if interested, look at my sigline and follow the link(s).

Bottom line is, it's not the voltage fluctuations that are really important, as it is the ability to deliver current in small regularly timed pulses that 'feed the need' so to speak.
And yes the duplex receptacles, the IEC connectors, the standard ac plugs, the fuses, and more, are all possible *CP's* (Choke Points) in terms of limiting these ≈ 3-4ms current pulses that feed our equipment.
And since so many have noted changes/improvements JUST by changing the fuse, let alone the rest of the ac power chain back to the transformer on the pole, or in the vault underground. 
Additionally there are those who have jumped ALL the way down this rabbit hole and have discovered just how DEEP it truly is, myself included.

JJ


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## IanB52 (Dec 6, 2022)

johnjen said:


> I have looked into these and other related issues and have written up my findings, if interested, look at my sigline and follow the link(s).
> 
> Bottom line is, it's not the voltage fluctuations that are really important, as it is the ability to deliver current in small regularly timed pulses that 'feed the need' so to speak.
> And yes the duplex receptacles, the IEC connectors, the standard ac plugs, the fuses, and more, are all possible *CP's* (Choke Points) in terms of limiting these ≈ 3-4ms current pulses that feed our equipment.
> ...


To me, this sounds intuitively correct. It's like you are loosening (and cleaning up) the choke from cable/wall into the psu/component,  effectively increasing the juice.

Caelin Gabriel has a couple white papers about power supplies "sip" AC in pulses, and it matters how much current is delivered in each pulse.


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## johnjen

Yes, I saw Caelin's videos and white papers as well.
So I purchased an ASCC (Available Short Circuit Current) tester and performed several experiments using several types of power delivery and several different cables and duplex receptacles, and then measured the actual current draw into a 'test mule' HP amp using a non contact current sense probe.

The 3-4ms current flow pulses are followed by ≈ 8ms of wait time, or no current flow, in a continuous sequence.
So for 2) 3-4ms pulses out of a 16.6ms full ac 60Hz cycle, only ≈50% (at best) of the time will current flow into our gear.

So the greater the ability to quickly dump current from the upstream electrical service the 'better' our gear tends to sound.

In fact, if you know what you are doing AND have sufficient experience with ac power distribution systems, you can 'tidy up' the branch circuit that feeds your audio gear, and in a variety of ways.
Such as making sure the breaker clamp screw used to feed power to the branch circuit for our gear, that resides in the power distribution box, is tight and the wire lead has not been overheated etc.

I went so far as to use twist locks and soldered all of the romex to romex splices and noticed an immediate SQ improvement for the dedicated branch that feeds my audio system, ESPECIALLY the ground wire.

Optimizing the ac power current delivery capability, can definitely yield an improvement, even in our low powered HP systems, let alone higher powered speaker systems.

JJ


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## IanB52

johnjen said:


> Yes, I saw Caelin's videos and white papers as well.
> So I purchased an ASCC (Available Short Circuit Current) tester and performed several experiments using several types of power delivery and several different cables and duplex receptacles, and then measured the actual current draw into a 'test mule' HP amp using a non contact current sense probe.
> 
> The 3-4ms current flow pulses are followed by ≈ 8ms of wait time, or no current flow, in a continuous sequence.
> ...


Very interesting. Thanks for this! I haven't heard of anyone else testing this, so it is really cool to hear some confirmation. 

It's funny, in a former life as a studio engineer I knew an accomplished engineer who would talk about how tightening the screws on his breaker etc improved audio quality. Everybody basically laughed him off...


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## johnjen

This 'trick' of making sure the clamp screws and the ends of the 12awg wire are optimally setup is a 'simple' tweak that in some cases can solve a whole mess of 'quirks'.
All it takes is for someone (previous owner?), at sometime, to run a circuit, where the clamp screw was slightly loose, with a big load, for a while, and so that junction got hot.
And then it gets worse, because as the copper expands, because it got hot, and then it cooled down, and shrunk, you can all to easily get arcing and so more heat…

And so all of this can go on for a while, especially if that branch circuit now only has a light load, like say a HP system pulling well under 100watts, or even 10watts.
Dirty ac power where arcing or the internal resistance of that branch circuit is higher than it should be, and which in some cases, can be a source of variable noise in and of itself…
And what if any connection ANYWHERE on that branch circuits path is loose or not 'properly secured' and gets hot  (like say any other duplex outlet or load (lighting etc.)) especially if it is directly upstream of the audio system, and is a direct source of noise AND you'll find the ground has that same added noise.
Why?
Because neutral and ground are tied together back at the breaker panel.

And all of this presupposes that your ac power distribution system is setup properly, and isn't, like what exists in my house, that being post and pillar with no ground run.
And what about living in an 'older' apartment building, one that hasn't been 'updated' quite yet?
It isn't all that out of the ordinary where the electrical distribution system is, shall we say, less than optimal for tweako tunes.

JJ


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## Ufanco

Using the SR purple fuse in my Dac and considering changing fuse to the tube amp. Just wondering where I see more improvement  using it in the amp or in the Dac.


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## Somatic

Ufanco said:


> Using the SR purple fuse in my Dac and considering changing fuse to the tube amp. Just wondering where I see more improvement  using it in the amp or in the Dac.


I would get a matching fuse for the amp as well.


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## Ufanco

Somatic said:


> I would get a matching fuse for the amp as well.


That’s the long range plan, with holiday and everything that not going happen for a few months.


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## johnjen

Ufanco said:


> Using the SR purple fuse in my Dac and considering changing fuse to the tube amp. Just wondering where I see more improvement  using it in the amp or in the Dac.


Realistically only you will be able to determine where the greatest improvement will occur, and by how much etc.
And it may not be that either one or the other will be the greatest improvement but that the accumulation of improvements could be the the greatest change and most gratifying.
This is usually what I find as I implement tweaks, that they are additive in terms of SQ improvements and no one single tweak is 'the best' as they all interact with the entire system.

JJ


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