# Schiit Lyr Shipping! Impressions?



## leesure

According to their website, the Lyr started shipping Friday (2/25/2011). Any West Coasters get theirs yet?

I'm dying for early impressions!


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## matthewh133

Surely some people must have it by now. Come onnnnn LCD-2 impressions!


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## Rope

leesure said:


> According to their website, the Lyr started shipping Friday (2/25/2011). *Any West Coasters get theirs yet?*
> 
> I'm dying for early impressions!




If they have, they ain't talkin'.

When the second production run comes of age, (late March) I promise to post my impressions. Until then, I'm as giddy as a school girl that hasn't used the bathroom for a week.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Anxiously waiting for a boatload of impressions on it, and what DAC is being paired with it. =)


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## leesure

SOMEBODY has to have gotten one by now!
   
  I'm dyin' ova here.


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## Rope

What leesure said!  Ditto.


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## HK_sends

I got mine today. Here are impressions I posted in another thread:

"It certainly makes the LCD-2s sound incredible! There is no sense of recessed highs to me (but, then again, that could be my old ears). The Lyr makes the LCD-2 sound more "detailed"...it is much easier to identify individual music instruments and threads in a complex passage. I swear the soundstage is bigger. All I know is, as I listen to the Lyr and Audez'e, I am swept away by the music."

My source is a Cowon J3 playing flac files and the volume at "36". I can turn up the volume on the Lyr to about the 10 O'clock position and listen comfortably. It doesn't sound like anything is lacking.

Just started listening so I will have more detailed impressions in time. But so far, it rocks with the LCD-2s! 

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## matthewh133

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I got mine. Here are impressions I posted in another thread:
> 
> "It certainly makes the LCD-2s sound incredible! There is no sense of recessed highs to me (but, then again, that could be my old ears). The Lyr makes the LCD-2 sound more "detailed"...it is much easier to identify individual music instruments and threads in a complex passage. I swear the soundstage is bigger. All I know is, as I listen to the Lyr and Audez'e, I am swept away by the music."
> 
> ...


 

 Great to hear! Awaiting further impressions. If the consensus is they do great with the LCD-2, I may just have to grab one to do a direct comparison with the LCD-2 and the Burson, with the loser going to the FS forums.


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## HK_sends

matthewh133 said:


> Great to hear! Awaiting further impressions. If the consensus is they do great with the LCD-2, I may just have to grab one to do a direct comparison with the LCD-2 and the Burson, with the loser going to the FS forums.




This is the only high-powered amp I have ever had. I was listening to the LCD-2s with the Schiit Asgard and they sounded great, but the Lyr really makes them sound "properly powered"...I know it doesn't mean much, but the sound seems more full in all respects...

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## leesure

Thanks HK!  I too am hoping this is THE ONE for LCD-2's.  I'm not one who is longing fort more brightness, so I'm hoping it's not too bright...maybe with a little of that tube magic.
   
  Looking forward to more impressions.


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## HK_sends

leesure said:


> Thanks HK!  I too am hoping this is THE ONE for LCD-2's.  I'm not one who is longing fort more brightness, so I'm hoping it's not too bright...maybe with a little of that tube magic.
> 
> Looking forward to more impressions.




It's not bright by any means. I'll say it takes the natural sound and adds more presence. It really is hard to describe, but it sounds better with the LCD-2s than the Asgard...even that's not quite right, because the Asgard sounds great with the LCD-2s as well, but the Lyr sounds better. Sorry, for the confusion, it's really hard to describe at the moment...every time I want to compare amps, I am distracted by the music with the Lyr and Audez'e.

I'll need to get over the "wow" factor. Also, I don't think the stock tubes are that bad. They don't seem to detract from the sound. I guess I'll need to get some other tubes so I can roll and compare.

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## tvrboy

I'll get mine in 2 days. Unfortunately I am in China and the amp is being sent to Michigan. What a shame...


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## ChavaC

Really early impressions relative to the Valhalla with some HD600's after about 5 songs:
  A bit brighter
  A bit more air in between instruments/ bigger soundstage
  Not as warm
   
  Two other things: two bright orange LEDs behind the tubes that I know are gonna give me fits, and the enclosure has a slight gold/bronze tint compared to the silver-aluminum one of the Valhalla.
   
  Looking forward to hearing some LCD-2 impressions!


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## gordie

West coaster reporting in. Received the Lyr today. I'm at work and can't really do serious listening, but I brought my Hifiman HE-6 cans and it sounds great with those. Surprisingly I still have to turn the volume on the Lyr to 11-11:30 (on the clock scale), however, it is ideal to get the volume pot near the halfway point anyway, I hate it when I can't turn past 9:00 and have no ability for refined volume adjustment, so that's a win.
   
  The cans sound full, punchy, and no no distortion, smooth, not overly bright. I haven't pushed it past 12:00 (straight up), at that volume it is louder than you'd want (unless listening to soft music like classical or jazz/etc, or some older rock that was recorded without a lot of compression). Techno or modern rock are way too loud at 12:00!
   
  I was previously using either a Benchmark (with jumpers removed to put it at 0dB gain) or the Headroom Micro Stack (that amp is a workhorse, I couldn't get it much past 9:00 on high gain, or 10:30 on medium gain), but those amps are at home so I can't compare. I hate comparing things anyway, I just like to plug in and spend a few days listening and see how much I enjoy it, but I will probably succumb and try and compare them at some point.
   
  It does seem like I'm getting more punch and satisfaction without needing to crank them up as much as I did with the other amps, a sign I'm getting more dynamics (expected with all that power), but I might just be imagining that.
   
  Anyway, no problem driving the HifiMan HE-6 with these at any volume you'd want.
   
  Build quality looks excellent, amp is beautiful too, very nice. 
   
  -- Gordie


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## visualguy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> My source is a Cowon J3 playing flac files and the volume at "36". I can turn up the volume on the Lyr to about the 10 O'clock position and listen comfortably. It doesn't sound like anything is lacking.


 
   
  You're using a low-voltage source and you still have to attenuate the Lyr all the way down to 10 o'clock. Imagine what would happen if you were using a normal 2vrms source such as a DAC... The potentiometer wouldn't give you much fine control at that level of attenuation, and you would likely start suffering from channel imbalance.
   
  Also, if you're at 10 o'clock on the Lyr with that source, then the Lyr is generating a small fraction of a volt as well as a small fraction of a watt for you. You're not really making use of the power of the amp.
   
  Too much gain requires too much attenuation which bites you with analog non-IC attenuators. The amp may be great, but the high gain is problematic in most cases, and the power isn't really used in practice.
   
  The only case where I can see it remotely making sense is if you have a low-power source coupled with very inefficient headphones (like the HE-6). In that case you may use the gain more, but even then you would be using only a small fraction of the power of this amp (but at least excess power doesn't hurt you unlike excess gain which needs to be attenuated).


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## visualguy

Quote: 





gordie said:


> It does seem like I'm getting more punch and satisfaction without needing to crank them up as much as I did with the other amps, a sign I'm getting more dynamics (expected with all that power), but I might just be imagining that.


 


 Thanks - good to hear - I may try this amp with my HE-6 as well. However, I'm skeptical that its power would make a difference because even at just 1W the HE-6 would exceed 110dB in volume which is deafening. So far I haven't seen a good explanation of why you would need an amp capable of more than 1W for the HE-6.


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## leesure

Quote: 





visualguy said:


> Thanks - good to hear - I may try this amp with my HE-6 as well. However, I'm skeptical that its power would make a difference because even at just 1W the HE-6 would exceed 110dB in volume which is deafening. So far I haven't seen a good explanation of why you would need an amp capable of more than 1W for the HE-6.


 

 It's not about the continuous power.  It's about the power reserves to give you undistorted short term dynamics...a loud sharp snare drum, for example.  You may not need more than say 750mW in 90% of the passages, but then the amp may be called upon to deliver 3W for an instant.  The Lyr, theoretically, would handle that with aplomb, while a 1W RMS amp would clip and distort.


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## leesure

HK Sends, ChavaC and Gordie...thank you for the early impressions...keep'em coming!


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## HK_sends

visualguy said:


> You're using a low-voltage source and you still have to attenuate the Lyr all the way down to 10 o'clock. Imagine what would happen if you were using a normal 2vrms source such as a DAC... The potentiometer wouldn't give you much fine control at that level of attenuation, and you would likely start suffering from channel imbalance.
> 
> Also, if you're at 10 o'clock on the Lyr with that source, then the Lyr is generating a small fraction of a volt as well as a small fraction of a watt for you. You're not really making use of the power of the amp.
> 
> ...




Whoa! :eek: You definitely lost me there for a moment. I understand that the source has a low voltage output, but if I try to turn the Lyr up past 11 (so to speak) o'clock, my ears are gonna implode. I don't have a different source or DAC to use right now. Should I lower the volume on the source, but crank the Lyr volume?

Inquiring n00b minds...
-HK sends


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## visualguy

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It's not about the continuous power.  It's about the power reserves to give you undistorted short term dynamics...a loud sharp snare drum, for example.  You may not need more than say 750mW in 90% of the passages, but then the amp may be called upon to deliver 3W for an instant.  The Lyr, theoretically, would handle that with aplomb, while a 1W RMS amp would clip and distort.


 

 I realize we're talking about peaks, but even peaks have a sensible volume limit. How loud do peaks need to be? on the HE-6 you would get extremely loud peaks of 117dB at 3W. That's at or beyond the loudness limit of many headphones, and I wouldn't want to listen to it even for short periods.
   
  Even 1W will give you 113.5dB peaks which are too loud. Even at 0.25W you're at 107.5dB...


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## visualguy

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Whoa!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 No, sorry to confuse you... I think you're ok the way you set it up. My point was just that this amp is overkill in terms of gain in most cases, and it's certainly overkill in terms of power. The excess gain problem will become particularly painful with a decent-voltage source (such as 2vrms) - basically, the attenuator will give you grief...


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## HK_sends

visualguy said:


> No, sorry to confuse you... I think you're ok the way you set it up. My point was just that this amp is overkill in terms of gain in most cases, and it's certainly overkill in terms of power. The excess gain problem will become particularly painful with a decent-voltage source (such as 2vrms) - basically, the attenuator will give you grief...




Ah, ok...Thanks! I don't know if it will be an issue. I will be watching other peoples impressions with different equipment. I am curious at how it will work with higher end equipment than mine.

Cheers!
-HK sends


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## curtain

Quote: 





visualguy said:


> I realize we're talking about peaks, but even peaks have a sensible volume limit. How loud do peaks need to be? on the HE-6 you would get extremely loud peaks of 117dB at 3W. That's at or beyond the loudness limit of many headphones, and I wouldn't want to listen to it even for short periods.
> 
> Even 1W will give you 113.5dB peaks which are too loud. Even at 0.25W you're at 107.5dB...


 


 So are you suggesting 6W is a marketing gimmick to differentiate the product?
   
  This offers more on the subject
   
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html


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## sferic

Received today in San Francisco. On my inaugural listen now. Immediate impressions vs my adored LD MKIII (with tube upgrades).
   
  System:
  MacPro playing thru Audirvana (Apple Lossless files for the most part).
  Apogee Duet Firewire DAC
  Denon H5000 with Jmoney V3 pads (cloth removed)
  Grado PS 1000
   
  This baby is smoooove. No purchase regret. Compared to the MKIII (which is a lovely listen):
  - Bass way bigger but punchier, cleaner attacks, great, detailed transients
  - L/R separation is absolute. Imaging is intense.
  - Absolutely no discernable self-noise (but with these 2 phones you don't really need to get past 9 o'clock)
  - Hard to describe, increased feeling of warmth & low end, but improved accuracy & detail at the same time. Having had a few SS amps as well, this seems like a perfect blend of the two.
  - Built like a TANK. Heavy. Compact.
  - Doesn't seem to put out that much heat. But then again, this is S.F. where it's usually in the 50's & 60's, that could be viewed as a negative. I sometimes warm my hands in front of my Samsung plasma TV. 
   
  Also on the wait list for LCD2, but happy to find this is an improvement for my other cans as well. I don't think there's a downside to having all that power in reserve. It makes the transients pop cleanly and without distortion. This was always the rule with speaker amps, I think it must hold true for headphone amps as well.


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





curtain said:


> So are you suggesting 6W is a marketing gimmick to differentiate the product?
> 
> This offers more on the subject
> 
> http://6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html


 

  It _mostly _is a gimmick since pretty much only the K1000s need that kind of power.  It does give you peace of mind though.  It should be able to handle pretty much any "conventional" headphone ever made and probably anything that will be made.  Its not like there are any drawbacks to it either assuming they QC the pots properly.  If it tracks properly it doesn't matter if you won't usually need to go very high.  You aren't paying through the nose for that extra power either.  Anything I know of with similar amounts of power costs around twice as much.
   
  I'm considering one for myself.  Based on the specs this may pretty close to "the one amp to rule them all."  I'd love to see some detailed measurements of it.


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## visualguy

Quote: 





sferic said:


> - Absolutely no discernable self-noise (but with these 2 phones you don't really need to get past 9 o'clock)


 


 9 o'clock on the Alps RK27 pots used in this amp is quite likely to give you some left/right imbalance, not to mention that you don't have much scope for fine volume adjustment at the bottom of the pots travel.
   
  You typically don't want to have to go below 10-11 o'clock on these Alps pots based on what I read in the DYI sites, and based on my experience with Alps pots (although I don't have this particular model).


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## visualguy

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It _mostly _is a gimmick since pretty much only the K1000s need that kind of power.  It does give you peace of mind though.  It should be able to handle pretty much any "conventional" headphone ever made and probably anything that will be made.  Its not like there are any drawbacks to it either assuming they QC the pots properly.  If it tracks properly it doesn't matter if you won't usually need to go very high.  You aren't paying through the nose for that extra power either.  Anything I know of with similar amounts of power costs around twice as much.
> 
> I'm considering one for myself.  Based on the specs this may pretty close to "the one amp to rule them all."  I'd love to see some detailed measurements of it.


 


 There are certainly drawbacks to the high gain that goes with this high power. See note above regarding the lack of fine volume control and the channel volume mismatch.
   
  I think this amp may be ok for the HE-6, but far from ideal for more efficient headphones because of the volume control issues that you would be facing.


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## livewire

*MOAR POWAR. YES!!!*


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## visualguy

Quote: 





curtain said:


> So are you suggesting 6W is a marketing gimmick to differentiate the product?
> 
> This offers more on the subject
> 
> http://6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html


 

  Hmmm... Interesting table in this link. I'm surprised by the results for the 2V source considering that this is an amp with a high gain of 10X... I would have expected lower positions on the pots. It would be illuminating to see the attenuation graph of the Alps RK27.


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## foaming at the ears

Quote: 





visualguy said:


> Thanks - good to hear - I may try this amp with my HE-6 as well. However, I'm skeptical that its power would make a difference because even at just 1W the HE-6 would exceed 110dB in volume which is deafening. So far I haven't seen a good explanation of why you would need an amp capable of more than 1W for the HE-6.


 
  IMO, it's not just about loudness.  Take for example my Grado SR225.  They are easily driven to loud volumes, with or without an amp (they only need a few mw to get very loud).  When I first added a CKKIII to my PC, of course the SR225 was able to reach higher volumes, but was endangering my hearing the only benefit?--No.  When I compared the listening experience with and without the amp at similar volumes, the amped Grados sounded richer, fuller, etc.  In other words, the Grado is able to achieve 95db with or without the amp, but they don't sound the same despite playing at the same volume.  Similarly, it's probable that the HE-6 will sound different at 95db depending on how many watts is feeding that volume.  The amp isn't there just to make sure your amp can hit 110db... it's there to make sure it sounds great at 110db.
   
  At the same time, I'm not trying to say that everyone should be going out to buy amps with the highest output possible, because it's not all about the watts either (e.g.  The CKKIII outputs a lot more into the Grado than the famed Mapletree amp, but I'm not going to contend on that point alone that the CKKIII will sound better than Dr Pepper's offering.).  I think you're right about the overkill thing, ... 6w at 32ohm is overkill for most headphones, but at that point it's really more about the flavor of the amp than it is about how loud it can get your headphone (in fact, is how loud an amp can drive your headphone important to anybody?  since clipping is uncommon for most headphones, probably not.). 
   
  The 6w seems to be a design trait specifically for orthos, which should produce 110db better with 6w than they could with 0.75w.  Schiit has already said that if you want to be using one of their amps for something like a grado, the Asgard might be the better match (for readers who want proof, please refer to the sponsorship thread where Jason explicitly states this).  Schiit's not trying to lure customers in with the 6w spec alone.  They're hoping that the Lyr will sound beautiful to us because its synergies will be great with headphones abcd...xyz.  As we all know here at headfi, word of mouth is king.
   
  And lastly, about the lyr's watts potentially making the volume pot too sensitive, 6moons' estimates seem to put this to rest.  Once I get mine, I'll try to post some impressions.


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## sferic

Ummm if you haven't listened to it, you're just posting words about words.


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## visualguy

Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> Similarly, it's probable that the HE-6 will sound different at 95db depending on how many watts is feeding that volume.  The amp isn't there just to make sure your amp can hit 110db... it's there to make sure it sounds great at 110db.


 

 There's only one problem with the theory you described - it's not compatible with the laws of physics. Power is not independent of voltage and impedance. In fact, it's easy to calculate the power (wattage) from the volume (voltage) and impedance. There is no such thing as "feeding that volume" with more watts. The watts are determined by the voltage and impedance.
   
  For example, say your headphones are HE-6. For a volume of 95dB you need to feed them 900mV, which means 16mW (yes - less than 2% of one watt...) into 50 ohms. It's just the basic laws of electricity. All the extra wattage that your amp is capable of aren't used because driving even a little more wattage into this 50 ohm load would mean higher voltage and thus higher volume than the 95dB that we picked as an example.

 My claim is that all these extra watts beyond, say, 1W (to be generous) will never be used even with the HE-6 because they can only be deployed at high voltage and thus deafening volume.


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## foaming at the ears

*@ **visualguy*
   
  You missed my point.  I'm not a physicist, but what I meant was that the implementation of the watts as a part of the whole (whole being the amp) should have a noticeable impact on the headphone experience at a constant volume.  Have you heard the HE-6 out of a PC-headphone out?  If so, were you impressed by the quality at any volume? I'm merely questioning what seems to be a narrowing view of the amp's purpose as a result of the watt discussion: is volume all there is?
   
  Also, this next question is really because I'm ignorant about the matter: how come a headamp that produces something like the bare minimum mw you meantioned, such as an OTL tube amp, clips so heavily with the HE6?
   
*@ sferic*
   
  What is a post if it is not one of words?  So, if I shorten your "posting words about words" to "posting about words", what does this mean?  Is it derisive? (ie is it accurate for me to say that you, too, ummmmmmm are also posting words about words?).  I'm sorry, I just really don't understand.


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## USAudio

I guess the bottom line is how it sounds with orthodynamics, the Lyr's target market.


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## grokit

Quote: 





visualguy said:


> I realize we're talking about peaks, but even peaks have a sensible volume limit. How loud do peaks need to be? on the HE-6 you would get extremely loud peaks of 117dB at 3W. That's at or beyond the loudness limit of many headphones, and I wouldn't want to listen to it even for short periods.
> 
> Even 1W will give you 113.5dB peaks which are too loud. Even at 0.25W you're at 107.5dB...


 
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It _mostly _is a gimmick since pretty much only the K1000s need that kind of power.  It does give you peace of mind though.  It should be able to handle pretty much any "conventional" headphone ever made and probably anything that will be made.  Its not like there are any drawbacks to it either assuming they QC the pots properly.  If it tracks properly it doesn't matter if you won't usually need to go very high.  You aren't paying through the nose for that extra power either.  Anything I know of with similar amounts of power costs around twice as much.
> 
> I'm considering one for myself.  Based on the specs this may pretty close to "the one amp to rule them all."  I'd love to see some detailed measurements of it.


 
   
  Quote: 





visualguy said:


> My claim is that all these extra watts beyond, say, 1W (to be generous) will never be used even with the HE-6 because they can only be deployed at high voltage and thus deafening volume.


 
   
   
  The HE-6 and the K1000 have roughly equivalent amping requiring requirements, this has been covered painstakingly in the HE-6 thread. Out of my Woo WA22 with 2-watt power tubes in balanced mode, the HE-6 were not driven to their potential, and I had to go past 3pm on the pot to even get adequate volume levels. Out of my pro-audio dual mono SS speaker amp rated at 45 wpc (Alesis RA150), the HE-6 is driven to their proper dynamics, and get to a good listening level at around 10:30 am on the pots. This has been tested with multiple sources.
   
  As far as "one amp to rule them all", I don't know of any headphone amp as versatile as the Woo WA5; there have been a number of reports of the HE-6 being driven quite well from the K1000 jack on that one. Without adequate wattage you can't generate adequate current to do the HE-6 justice, voltage is not the issue with orthos. I agree that the Lyr may be overkill for most headphones, but it seems tailor-made for the HE-6 and K1000.
   
  The LCD-2 is quite a bit more efficient than the HE-6; it's more like a hard-to-drive conventional dynamic such as the HD800. Indeed, the HD800 and LCD-2 need about the same position on the pot of my WA22 in 2-watt mode, which again is completely insufficient for the HE-6. There have been reports of the LCD-2 being driven very nicely off the taps of a speaker amp as well, but it is not as necessary as it is for the HE-6.
   
  HiFiMAN's EF5 is a 2-watt headphone amp that was designed specifically to drive their earlier orthos, the HE-5/LE. It is not adequate for the HE-6, that is why they are working on the EF6. The Lyr is aimed at fulfilling the same need as the EF6, Schiit just beat HiFiMAN to the punch. Without the HE-6, I don't know iof the Lyr would even exist as the K1000 is discontinued and you would need a SE adapter to drive it out of the Lyr anyways.
   
  Reading these impressions I am a bit concerned about the volume/gain; it sounds like the gain may be set too high (edit: for certain input devices), even for the HE-6. But current-wise the HE-6 wants everything that the Lyr has to offer and maybe even more.


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## maverickronin

Quote: 





visualguy said:


> There are certainly drawbacks to the high gain that goes with this high power. See note above regarding the lack of fine volume control and the channel volume mismatch.
> 
> I think this amp may be ok for the HE-6, but far from ideal for more efficient headphones because of the volume control issues that you would be facing.


 

 We'll have to wait until someone reports that problem to see if it actually exists in the wild.  I know there are plenty of pots with imbalances at low levels and that even individual samples of the same model can vary quite a bit which is why I mentioned Schiit's QC.  If they are halfway competent (which I'm going to assume they are until I hear otherwise) they are going to actually test the pots before the put them in the amps and put the best ones in the Lyr since it needs them the most.
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> As far as "one amp to rule them all", I don't know of any headphone amp as versatile as the Woo WA5; there have been a number of reports of the HE-6 being driven quite well from the K1000 jack on that one. Without adequate wattage you can't generate adequate current to do the HE-6 justice, voltage is not the issue with orthos. I agree that the Lyr may be overkill for most headphones, but it seems tailor-made for the HE-6 and K1000.


 
   
  I said _close_.  I'm not trying to imply that its absolutely the best, just that its price, power, and size should make it the most versatile (taking things other than sound and power into consideration) amp I know of _if _it lives up to its specs.  Even if you can afford the WA5 it weighs 75 pounds, costs 7 times more in base configuration, takes up your whole desk, and may be unusable in the summer depending on your local climate and personal temperature tolerances.  It looks cool as all hell, and I bet it sounds great, but even if I (or most other people here) could afford it, there are severe issues of practicality.
   
  Also, unless someone is just making up specs, the HE-6 (83.5dB/mW) is almost 10dB more efficient than the K1000 (74dB/mW).


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## visualguy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> But current-wise the HE-6 wants everything that the Lyr has to offer and maybe even more.


 

  
  Current (amperes) is just power (watts) over voltage, which is the same as voltage over resistance (ohms). If you fix the voltage (headphones volume) limit that you want to reach, and the impedance, you can derive the needed current. There is no such thing as driving more current into a fixed ohm load at a fixed volume level, just like there is no such thing as driving more power (watts) into it. Something has to give. Either you raise the voltage (volume) or you lower the impedance. Assuming the impedance is fixed, and the max volume is fixed, the max current is fixed as well, and it's not high even for the HE-6 at extremely loud levels.
   
  I don't want to dispute your observations about driving the HE-6, but you have to realize that you're basically saying that their specs are wrong, because based on the specs you don't need that kind of power of drive them. Also, I have been able to drive them well with amps which provide only a little of 1W into 50 ohms (DAC1 and m903).
   
  I'm going to try the HE-6 with a balanced Beta 22 which is as powerful as the Lyr to settle this in my mind once and for all.


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## Wharfrat

This is a most enlightening discussion...it helps put alot of the commentary that arises in various threads about amplifiers (generally speaking)  and puts it all in perspective relative to headphone sensitivities and characteristics.  I have the EF5 amp and a pair of HE-5 headphones and a pair of the Thunderpants cans, both of which are lower sensitivity designs.  The TPs are a bit easier to drive than the HE 5 and I note the richer, fuller sound with the TPs through the EF5 compared to the HE-5.  In the context of the comments about the richer. fuller sound the Lyr can deliver with the LCD 2, it makes sense, at least based on my analoguous experience with the EF5 and the TP/HE5 comparison,  Thus,  one can readily deduce that if a headphone design is more sensitive, then the extra power is there to give that extra nuance to the reproduced musical note so that it approximates the actual note more closely.  
   
  This then leads me to the question of whether that extra power leads to some "coloration" of the actual note that was played in the studio or concert hall, i.e., how faithful is the Lyr design to the actual sound of the musical event?


----------



## visualguy

Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> *@ **visualguy*
> 
> You missed my point.  I'm not a physicist, but what I meant was that the implementation of the watts as a part of the whole (whole being the amp) should have a noticeable impact on the headphone experience at a constant volume.  Have you heard the HE-6 out of a PC-headphone out?  If so, were you impressed by the quality at any volume? I'm merely questioning what seems to be a narrowing view of the amp's purpose as a result of the watt discussion: is volume all there is?
> 
> Also, this next question is really because I'm ignorant about the matter: how come a headamp that produces something like the bare minimum mw you meantioned, such as an OTL tube amp, clips so heavily with the HE6?


 
   
  1W should be more than sufficient to drive the HE-6 based on their specs. The 16mW was just an example for peaks of 95dB. 1W will get you to 113.5dB...
   
  The PC HP out that you mentioned has nowhere near that power. However, I don't see the need for multi-watt amps for the HE-6. I know many say the need is there, but the physics doesn't support that, so it's a mystery to me. I listened to the HE-6 on two different 1W amps, and they sounded well-driven to me. I'm going to try a high-power Beta 22 next to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I said _close_.  I'm not trying to imply that its absolutely the best, just that its price, power, and size should make it the most versatile (taking things other than sound and power into consideration) amp I know of _if _it lives up to its specs.  Even if you can afford the WA5 it weighs 75 pounds, costs 7 times more in base configuration, takes up your whole desk, and may be unusable in the summer depending on your local climate and personal temperature tolerances.  It looks cool as all hell, and I bet it sounds great, but even if I (or most other people here) could afford it, there are severe issues of practicality.
> 
> Also, unless someone is just making up specs, the HE-6 (83.5dB/mW) is almost 10dB more efficient than the K1000 (74dB/mW).


 
   
  The WA5 is so heavy mainly because of it's transformers, which provide it with the current reserves that it needs to truly drive any headphone made (with the WEE on it's speaker taps for stats). I couldn't imagine it on anyone's desk as it's not a desktop amplifier; I just brought it up because of the favorable reports of it driving the HE-6 out of it's K1000 jack, which provide the same level of power as it's speaker taps. It's also the only headphone amp I can think of when I hear things like "the one to rule them all".
   
  As far as efficiency is concerned the comparison you have pointed out is helpful but not quite the whole picture, as the HE-6 presents a 50-ohm load to the amp and the K1000 presents a 120-ohm load. All I was trying to point out is that the 2-watt WA22 was inadequate, and the K1000 jack of the WA5 seems to be "just right" for the HE-6.
   
  I don't have time to read through it now as it's movie night, but I did find what seems to be a very helpful thread on the subject of K1000 input impedance and amplifier load that I will catch up on soon:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/15613/akg-k1000-impedance-and-amplifier-load
  
   
  Quote: 





wharfrat said:


> This is a most enlightening discussion...it helps put alot of the commentary that arises in various threads about amplifiers (generally speaking)  and puts it all in perspective relative to headphone sensitivities and characteristics.  I have the EF5 amp and a pair of HE-5 headphones and a pair of the Thunderpants cans, both of which are lower sensitivity designs.  The TPs are a bit easier to drive than the HE 5 and I note the richer, fuller sound with the TPs through the EF5 compared to the HE-5.  In the context of the comments about the richer. fuller sound the Lyr can deliver with the LCD 2, it makes sense, at least based on my analoguous experience with the EF5 and the TP/HE5 comparison,  Thus,  one can readily deduce that if a headphone design is more sensitive, then the extra power is there to give that extra nuance to the reproduced musical note so that it approximates the actual note more closely.
> 
> This then leads me to the question of whether that extra power leads to some "coloration" of the actual note that was played in the studio or concert hall, i.e., how faithful is the Lyr design to the actual sound of the musical event?


 

 Hi Bob, nicely put. But it's not just nuance we're talking about, it's also about the headphone reaching it's full dynamic potential without any letdown evenly across the frequency spectrum if that makes any sense. With adequate power reserves we will get to hear the headphone's full resolution at all frequencies. If anything, coloration is more likely to result when a headphone does not get the power it wants on a dynamic level, resulting in less controlled bass, recessed mids, sibilant highs and what have you.
  
   
  Quote: 





visualguy said:


> 1W should be more than sufficient to drive the HE-6 based on their specs. The 16mW was just an example for peaks of 95dB. 1W will get you to 113.5dB...
> 
> The PC HP out that you mentioned has nowhere near that power. However, I don't see the need for multi-watt amps for the HE-6. I know many say the need is there, but the physics doesn't support that, so it's a mystery to me. I listened to the HE-6 on two different 1W amps, and they sounded well-driven to me. I'm going to try a high-power Beta 22 next to see if it makes a difference.


 
   
  As I said, even two watts out of a headphone amp is inadequate to drive the HE-6 to its full potential; please read through the HE-6 thread for confirmation and consensus (edit: this latest post there is typical). I'm not very familiar with the Beta 22 but I do think it has been mentioned there a few times, just do a search for it within that thread. Looking forward to your impressions, but there is a reason that HiFiMAN is designing a more powerful amp than its 2-watt EF5 for the HE-6, as well as offering a speaker tap adapter for it.


----------



## Kremer930

Reading through the comments of this thread is quite amusing as this subject has been explored for many months.  Even before the announcement of the Lyr there were people who were saying that they were happy driving the HE6 from <1W amps and yet it has been conclusively shown that higher current delivers higher quality performance out of the HE6, all other things equal. 
   
  There seems to be too many people who have opinions that are theories and are not based on any use of either a Lyr or the HE6.  We should all remember to wait until we have physically tested a product before making claims about it. 
   
  The Lyr was designed for a purpose and that is mainly to drive difficult to drive headphones like the HE6 and K1000 etc.  To make comments on how inappropriate the Lyr is to drive high efficiency cans is like commenting that an F1 car is useless to race through sand dunes.  It is outside its design focus.
   
  To those that have provided initial listening impressions with whatever cans they have...Thankyou heaps.  I love reading them.  For those that have the HE6 to test....I am envious and especially hanging out to hear how the amp changes over time as it, and the tubes, burn in.


----------



## matthewh133

Yes please less current/power/watt discussion please, lets save it for impressions. My head's going to assplode.


----------



## leesure

Visual guy, 

It seems you're not interested in owning a Lyr as you've decided it's unnecessary. That's great, but why are you so bent on convincing others it's wrong for them...especially when you haven't tested one & haven't heard one?

The idea here was to provide IMPRESSIONS. I love a good electro-physics debate as much as the next guy (which is to say, not very much) but you're arguing in a vacuum. While power needs of some cans can preclude the use some amps, There are many more things than simply power output that make an amp good or not. This is simply an amplifier designed to provided more than enough power for any headphone. And more is better than not-enough. I have LCD-2's and 2 1-watt amps. They both tend to struggle with highly dynamic passages of music, like they are running out of. Available power. Thus my interest in the Lyr and my desire to hear from those who have tried one.

To those who have posted early impressions, THANK YOU! I look forward to hearing more.


----------



## Rope

I believe Schiit's LYR design objective was to compliment a full range of HP's, regardless of the impedance challenges.  Further more, is it counter productive to own a HP amplifier that will drive cattle, and herd cats?
   
  I think not.


----------



## akhnaten

I got mine yesterday.  I have only listened to a few songs on it.  All were very demanding in the bass frequencies (i.e. electronic music in FLAC format: Orbital - Beelzebeat, etc.).  I am feeding it from an Asus Xonar Essence STX via the RCA outs.  My headphones are the Beyerdynamic DT-990 600ohm (recommended by Jason@Schiit in its price range).    So far I am extremely happy with the bass control.  This combination of source, amp, and phones works extremely well together.  With the volume up full and no sound from the source, I hear no hiss or noise at all.  I have never had a setup this good before.  I will listen to some Jazz and Classical tonight to get a better idea of the accuracy across the sound spectrum and post an update.  
  As far as the build quality, it is exceptional.  There is no noise what so ever in the potentiometer movement.  I feel like I could drop it (without the tubes in) from the top of my house onto concrete and it would be fine, minus some scratches.  I do not understand how Schiit can use such high-end physical components and still sell the unit at this price point.  I cannot imagine that their cost in parts is less than $100.  
  Akh
   
  Update 1: After reading more of this thread I feel I need to give a little more information.  My Xonar is rated at 2vrms for the RCA outs.  The volume on Foobar2000 and in Windows 7 are set to 80% of maximum.  I have been using the pot on the amp between the 10 o'clock and the 2 o'clock position.  The gain seems perfect for this set of phones.  Second, there is no such thing as too much power, only too much volume.  The mistake that some people seem to be making is thinking that power only causes a speaker cone to move further.  It also allows the driver to have more control over the cone.  This increased control requires more power.  Conversely, the more power the amp has at its disposal, the better control the amp has over the cone.  This results in the harmonics of the various instruments used in the music being more accurately reproduced, i.e. that violin sounds more like a real violin would sound in person.  This creates the "wider sound stage" effect that people have been describing.
   
  Update 2: I have listened to some Classical music on it now, in particular Alfred Brendel "Beethoven: The complete piano Sonatas".  It sounds very good.  However I feel the highs roll off a little too quickly with the stock pair of tubes.  When I get a chance I may replace them with some "brighter" tubes.  Most of the music I will listen to on the amp is Trance and Electronica.  For that genre, where super deep and controlled bass is required, this amp is perfect.


----------



## Kremer930

Rope. This is taken from the first paragraph of the Lyr product page on www.Schiit.com, " Lyr is aimed at power-hungry orthodynamic headphones, as well as other difficult-to-drive designs."

Perhaps you need to look at what you believe?





rope said:


> I believe Schiit's LYR design objective was to compliment a full range of HP's, regardless of the impedance challenges.  Further more, is it counter productive to own a HP amplifier that will drive cattle, and herd cats?
> 
> I think not.


----------



## ChavaC

Quote: 





> *Does Lyr sound better than Asgard and Valhalla?*
> Does a bear schiit in the . . . nevermind. Short answer: yes. It’s much more dynamic than either amp, and will drive any headphone with power and finesse. It’s the easiest amp for us to recommend, because it works well with damn near everything.


----------



## Rope

Thanks, I'll look again at what I believe.  Nope, still the same, since the LYR will drive HP's ranging in impedance from 8-Ohm to 600-Ohm.  Hold it, perhaps that's not a wide range?
   
  Because LYR may target "power hungry" cans, should I chalk that up to overkill or headroom?
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Rope. This is taken from the first paragraph of the Lyr product page on www.Schiit.com, " Lyr is aimed at power-hungry orthodynamic headphones, as well as other difficult-to-drive designs."
> 
> Perhaps you need to look at what you believe?
> 
> ...


----------



## Amnesia87

So was this:

*Dynamically Adaptive Output Stage*
 No. Don’t roll your eyes and dismiss this as marketing bullschiit. Our new Dynamically Adaptive output stage allows us to pack almost 6X the output power of Asgard into an amp that runs slightly cooler. (Now, that doesn’t mean it runs cool. If you want a cold amp, you need to look elsewhere.) It works by sensing the current flowing through the output stage, and dynamically reconfiguring from Class-A single-ended to push-pull Class AB. The result is both pure Class-A sound and the ability to drive *virtually any headphone*, including low-impedance and low-efficiency models (orthodynamics, we’re looking at you.)
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Rope. This is taken from the first paragraph of the Lyr product page on www.Schiit.com, " Lyr is aimed at power-hungry orthodynamic headphones, as well as other difficult-to-drive designs."
> 
> Perhaps you need to look at what you believe?
> 
> ...


----------



## Kremer930

So the question to ask yourselves then, since you appear quite passionate....a) Can the Lyr drive a wide range of cans? And b) Does it provide an especially competent solution for difficult to drive Ortho's?  
   
  To have the capabilities that it does at $449USD is impressive.
   
  Feel free to complain and moan all you like... there will always be people who love to complain about life.  For me.  I have paid my money for the Lyr and am greatly looking forward to listening to my HE6 cans shine.
  
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Thanks, I'll look again at what I believe.  Nope, still the same, since the LYR will drive HP's ranging in impedance from 8-Ohm to 600-Ohm.  Hold it, perhaps that's not a wide range?
> 
> Because LYR may target "power hungry" cans, should I chalk that up to overkill or headroom?


 


   


  Quote: 





amnesia87 said:


> So was this:
> 
> *Dynamically Adaptive Output Stage*
> No. Don’t roll your eyes and dismiss this as marketing bullschiit. Our new Dynamically Adaptive output stage allows us to pack almost 6X the output power of Asgard into an amp that runs slightly cooler. (Now, that doesn’t mean it runs cool. If you want a cold amp, you need to look elsewhere.) It works by sensing the current flowing through the output stage, and dynamically reconfiguring from Class-A single-ended to push-pull Class AB. The result is both pure Class-A sound and the ability to drive *virtually any headphone*, including low-impedance and low-efficiency models (orthodynamics, we’re looking at you.)


----------



## Rope

Who's complaining? 
   
  Yes, I believe it will drive any HP you throw its way.
   
  I can't wait for my fresh Schiit LYR to arrive!

  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> So the question to ask yourselves then, since you appear quite passionate....a) Can the Lyr drive a wide range of cans? And b) Does it provide an especially competent solution for difficult to drive Ortho's?
> 
> To have the capabilities that it does at $449USD is impressive.
> 
> Feel free to complain and moan all you like... there will always be people who love to complain about life.  For me.  I have paid my money for the Lyr and am greatly looking forward to listening to my HE6 cans shine.


----------



## mikerobe

Holy Schiit balls! 
   
  I'm still rather new to the hobby, having only discovered the idea of "head-fi" after stumbling into a store near me called 32 Ohm.  It started around the beginning of January with a pair of Grado SR-80i's and a nice entry-level DAC/Tube Amp combo.  Here I am at the beginning of March with a pair of ALO cabled Audez'e LCD-2's, a MHDT Havana DAC, and the Lyr. 
   
  The Havana was picked up yesterday in lieu of the arrival of the Lyr.  I know my ears are still gaining their "palate" as it were, it's likely some of the high school students reading this have better tuned ears (though I still have an extreme range of hearing for my age).  Despite my potential naivete, I would say that the Lyr is butter with the LCD-2s.  The synergy is undeniable, at least in my current system.  One thing that I can readily admit is that I am on the "Team Musicality" side of the clarity vs. musicality debate.  I'm pretty sure that is what this pairing is all about.  There is something magical happening in my apartment right now.  It is taking everything within me to avoid sexual allusions and metaphors to describe it. 
   
  There are a few things that I know to go perfectly together.  Gin and tonic.  Blue cheese and honey.  Foie gras and sauternes.  Pizza and beer.  So far this headphone/amp combo is quickly being added to the list.  In my case, the Havana is a great addition to the group.  There's no doubt that I have coloration abound in my system (I'm trying diff tubes for their sonic effects), but it is a thing of beauty.
   
  I nearly jumped out of my seat after a certain point in Pink Floyd's "High Hopes" on the Pulse CD.  I finally, truly get dynamic range and I think the Lyr is at fault.  I started anticipating the coming crescendo in the song, and the Lyr did an absolutely astounding job in that build.  An absolutely smooth ride up that hill of sound, it crushed what I anticipated.  And this is all with the stock tubes.  I have since switched to some NOS GE smoked glass tubes in hopes of matching the tube in the Havana, and I will try my Amperex pair soon. 
   
  I am obviously in the very beginning of my love affair with this amp.  I know all the dangers and pitfalls while judging a thing.  I was easily swayed by the hype behind it.  I can't remember where I first saw it, but after seeing it here and gizmodo and some other places I was already nearly sold.  Once I picked up the LCD-2's I started researching amps for them and saw this Schiit again.  I finally pulled the trigger and regretted it for a month.
   
  No longer.
   
  I probably tried to be too poetic and pretty with my writing above.  If'n you got questions about specifics, ask 'em.


----------



## Ducker

*"I'm still rather new to the hobby, having only discovered the idea of "head-fi" after stumbling into a store near me called 32 Ohm.  It started around the beginning of January with a pair of Grado SR-80i's and a nice entry-level DAC/Tube Amp combo.  Here I am at the beginning of March with a pair of ALO cabled Audez'e LCD-2's, a MHDT Havana DAC, and the Lyr."*
   
  From what I've read that's a really nice store to have near you.  And, nice upgrades!!!!
   
  Congrats and have fun!


----------



## Kremer930

Good form!!  Welcome to the club. 
   
  Quote: 





rope said:


> Who's complaining?
> 
> Yes, I believe it will drive any HP you throw its way.
> 
> I can't wait for my fresh Schiit LYR to arrive!


----------



## Kremer930

I love the poetry and text used to build imagery.  Keep it coming.  I will be keen to hear how your tube rolling goes.  I bought the genelex ECC88 tubes to try out when my Lyr gets here.  Being a Friday before a long weekend, it would be pure bliss to get the Lyr today...but unlikely.  


  
  Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> Holy Schiit balls!
> 
> I'm still rather new to the hobby, having only discovered the idea of "head-fi" after stumbling into a store near me called 32 Ohm.  It started around the beginning of January with a pair of Grado SR-80i's and a nice entry-level DAC/Tube Amp combo.  Here I am at the beginning of March with a pair of ALO cabled Audez'e LCD-2's, a MHDT Havana DAC, and the Lyr.
> 
> ...


----------



## monsieurguzel

Hmm thats odd that you say the WA5 is good at driving the HE-6.  I used to have that amp for a while and tried the HE-6 prototype on them and the matching was actually quite bad.  It didn't have anywhere near enough power for those headphones.  To me, the WA5 is actually a lot picker than I thought with headphones.  It sounded completely wrong with the sony R-10 and the Thunderpants.  As for LCD-2, it is a pretty good match, but way too lush sounding.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> The WA5 is so heavy mainly because of it's transformers, which provide it with the current reserves that it needs to truly drive any headphone made (with the WEE on it's speaker taps for stats). I couldn't imagine it on anyone's desk as it's not a desktop amplifier; I just brought it up because of the favorable reports of it driving the HE-6 out of it's K1000 jack, which provide the same level of power as it's speaker taps. It's also the only headphone amp I can think of when I hear things like "the one to rule them all".
> 
> As far as efficiency is concerned the comparison you have pointed out is helpful but not quite the whole picture, as the HE-6 presents a 50-ohm load to the amp and the K1000 presents a 120-ohm load. All I was trying to point out is that the 2-watt WA22 was inadequate, and the K1000 jack of the WA5 seems to be "just right" for the HE-6.


----------



## maverickronin

The production version is supposed to have better efficiency than the prototype that was sent around in loner program, isn't it?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> Holy Schiit balls!
> 
> I'm still rather new to the hobby, having only discovered the idea of "head-fi" after stumbling into a store near me called 32 Ohm.  It started around the beginning of January with a pair of Grado SR-80i's and a nice entry-level DAC/Tube Amp combo.  Here I am at the beginning of March with a pair of ALO cabled Audez'e LCD-2's, a MHDT Havana DAC, and the Lyr.
> 
> ...


 


 The Schiit, er force is strong with this one.


----------



## leesure

Definitely.
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The production version is supposed to have better efficiency than the prototype that was sent around in loner program, isn't it?


----------



## sferic

My "words about words" post - I was perhaps trying to be too clever, actually I was trying not to be derisive. But Leesure makes my point in plain English; I very much enjoy the theoretical discussions but they probably belong on another forum. A lot of us just getting the new toy are scanning here to see if other folks are having similar or different impressions. That's all.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> Hmm thats odd that you say the WA5 is good at driving the HE-6.  I used to have that amp for a while and tried the HE-6 prototype on them and the matching was actually quite bad.  It didn't have anywhere near enough power for those headphones.  To me, the WA5 is actually a lot picker than I thought with headphones.  It sounded completely wrong with the sony R-10 and the Thunderpants.  As for LCD-2, it is a pretty good match, but way too lush sounding.


 
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The production version is supposed to have better efficiency than the prototype that was sent around in loner program, isn't it?


 

  
  This is interesting, maybe the difference in efficiency between the prototypes and the production version was that the HE-6 was improved to make them as efficient as the K1000. I own an HE-6 and have tried the protos, but I haven't had a chance to listen to the WA5 personally. That's good to know about its pickiness, as I had generalized that it was quite versatile from reading about it in the Woo thread.
   
  Likewise I have read a few posts from a couple of HE-6/WA5 owners that seem quite satisfied with that pairing, pretty sure they are Frank I and SillySally but not positive. I wonder how much of a difference different tubes would make with the LCD-2 for example. Have you listened to a K1000 out of the WA5's K1000 jack?


----------



## sferic

Day 2: Listening thru my Denon H5000's. The bass just f'ing slaps you in the face and knocks you down. I might like a little more air around the treble, but that could be about burn in or tube rolling or your brain getting used to it. I'm really liking this amp.
   
  Back in the olden days, with vinyl and cassettes and reel to reel & such, we were always hungry for clean treble without hiss. Interesting that in the digital domain it's the warm powerful precise bass that seems to distinguish great equipment.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





monsieurguzel said:


> Hmm thats odd that you say the WA5 is good at driving the HE-6.  I used to have that amp for a while and tried the HE-6 prototype on them and the matching was actually quite bad.  It didn't have anywhere near enough power for those headphones.  To me, the WA5 is actually a lot picker than I thought with headphones.  It sounded completely wrong with the sony R-10 and the Thunderpants.  As for LCD-2, it is a pretty good match, but way too lush sounding.


 


  That is because the HE-6 prototype were a lot more inefficient compared to the end production product. I have the HE-6 and the WA5-LE and they sound great out of the high impedance output. I listen to the a pair of HE-6 in a meet with my own WA5-LE and I placed the order that same night.
   
  The sound of the WA5 depends on the tubes you are using. I have the EML 300B Mesh, EML 5U4G Mesh and several driver tubes but my favorites are Mullard ECC32, Sylvania Brown Base 6SN7WGT, Tungsol BG/RP 6SN7GT and RCA Red Base 5692. I Have listen to HE-6, HD800, T1, LCD-2, D7000, D2000 woodies,DX1000,Edition 9, Edition 8, Edition 10 and RS-1. All of those sound great with it.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





sferic said:


> Day 2: Listening thru my Denon H5000's. The bass just f'ing slaps you in the face and knocks you down. I might like a little more air around the treble, but that could be about burn in or tube rolling or your brain getting used to it. I'm really liking this amp.
> 
> Back in the olden days, with vinyl and cassettes and reel to reel & such, we were always hungry for clean treble without hiss. Interesting that in the digital domain it's the warm powerful precise bass that seems to distinguish great equipment.


 


 When I first received my AH-D5000's, the bottom end was bloated and sloppy, lower mid-range muddy.  I was looking for a buyer until I discovered the markl mod.  If you'd like to tighten up the bottom end, and clean up the lower mids, I highly recommend damping and stuffing the ear pads.  It truly worked wonders with mine.
   
  Now, where's my Schiit?


----------



## guruindrag

Mike, 
  After speaking with you at 32 Ohm about awaiting the arrival of your Lyr, I was hoping you'd share some impressions.  I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it!  I can't wait to listen to it when I can convince my dad to trade headphone rigs for a few weeks.  =)  
  
  Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> Holy Schiit balls!
> 
> I'm still rather new to the hobby, having only discovered the idea of "head-fi" after stumbling into a store near me called 32 Ohm.  It started around the beginning of January with a pair of Grado SR-80i's and a nice entry-level DAC/Tube Amp combo.  Here I am at the beginning of March with a pair of ALO cabled Audez'e LCD-2's, a MHDT Havana DAC, and the Lyr.
> 
> ...


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





guruindrag said:


> Mike,
> After speaking with you at 32 Ohm about awaiting the arrival of your Lyr, I was hoping you'd share some impressions.  I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it!  I can't wait to listen to it when I can convince my dad to trade headphone rigs for a few weeks.  =)


 
  Trade for the isabellina?!  You're on girl! The Lyr is not in the same class of course, but a worthy candidate in the sub 1K range. The somewhat muddled bottom end and lack of that SET style air on the top end were rapidly remedied by a quick (and pain in the ass .. duct tape to the rescue again) tube swap. Those JJ's are just Sch....!  This amp's a keeper!


----------



## gh0st0

Quote: 





tunarat said:


> Trade for the isabellina?!  You're on girl! The Lyr is not in the same class of course, but a worthy candidate in the sub 1K range. The somewhat muddled bottom end and lack of that SET style air on the top end were rapidly remedied by a quick (and pain in the ass .. duct tape to the rescue again) tube swap. Those JJ's are just Sch....!  This amp's a keeper!


 
  What tubes did you replace the JJs with?


----------



## Sophonax

Hey sferic, how's the noise level you're getting from the Lyr with your D5000?  I'm curious about how much noise the Lyr has with low-impedance, (reasonably) sensitive headphones like the D5000, considering how much gain the amp has.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





gh0st0 said:


> What tubes did you replace the JJs with?


 
  +1...inquiring minds wanna know!


----------



## mikerobe

Quote: 





guruindrag said:


> Mike,
> After speaking with you at 32 Ohm about awaiting the arrival of your Lyr, I was hoping you'd share some impressions.  I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it!  I can't wait to listen to it when I can convince my dad to trade headphone rigs for a few weeks.  =)


 


  Your dad is lucky!  Though I haven't gotten to hear an Isabellina, I am sure you'll love the sound of the Lyr. 
   
  I'll bring it in to the shop at some point so C can play with it at the store.  Maybe when I take you up on the offer to switch out my mini-plug for a 1/4".  I've taken up so much of his time over the past few months; moving stuff around, trying 15 pairs of iems, throwing my bike bag and helmet around.  Seriously, thanks for everything.  Ken really has a great crew working up there, y'all have made it a great experience each time I come in.  Just hope my major spending is done.
   
  Of course, y'all got in those AlgoRythm Solos now.  Crap.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all, 
   
  Thanks for the initial impressions and kind words. I just thought I'd drop in here and see if I can answer any questions you might have . . . or to salve your wounded fingers as you try to pry the tubes out of the chassis. Apologies on that one, we actually use a rubber tube (similar to duct tape, I guess) to install and reinstall during production, and future runs will have some chamfered edges to make the job less of a pain. 
   
  We'll be shipping the rest of the pre-orders today, and we hope to be shipping again 2-3 weeks.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## Yuceka

Jason 
   
  If I want to pre-order now, do I make the payment right now or when the amp is ready to be shipped in, as you said, 2-3 weeks?


----------



## 29029

I wonder if I am in that 2-3 week bracket as well - I pre-ordered 25th Feb


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





gh0st0 said:


> What tubes did you replace the JJs with?


 
  Valvo E188CC' s, German production,pretty rare. I think almost any good NOS valves would be an improvement though, the Lyr seems pretty sensitive to tube signature, (a good thing!). Right now the DAC is the weak link in the chain. Plan on moving the setup to the vinyl rig and cd this weekend to get a better listen, but really like what's going on so far. Whereas the Asgard has the "wow" factor. the Lyr has the "smile" factor with the ALO LCD2's. Suprising is the synergy with the recabled ESW9's tough, really open soundstage and spot on bass for this closed can.


----------



## tunarat

sophonax said:


> Hey sferic, how's the noise level you're getting from the Lyr with your D5000?  I'm curious about how much noise the Lyr has with low-impedance, (reasonably) sensitive headphones like the D5000, considering how much gain the amp has.


  I'm getting very minor noise with the esw9's, 42 ohms, and it really doesn't start to increase till about 2:00, well past listening levels.


----------



## mikerobe

I'm starting to pry open window blinds to see if the cops are coming.
   
  Seriously, I feel like a drug addict with this thing.  Again, I made the jump to a beautiful DAC at the same time, so I screwed up the Scientific Method (by changing more than one variable).  And, at the start of Day 2, I have rolled two more sets of tubes.  @Jason, you are so right about tube rolling.  I have no small-handed people on... hand... to aid.  After my first tube roll, I noticed some "dust" around the holes.  It wasn't until rolling this morning that I realized it was from my fingernails!  Those are some sharp edges.
   
  So, yeah, day 2 is turning out just like day 1.  Headphones have been on for way too long already, and it's only 8:41.  The same thing as yesterday is being noticed as well.  I play one of the go-to tracks from a certain artist and just get so lost that I end up listening to nearly the whole album.  I mean, it's becoming addictive.  I _need_ it.  Funny thing is, with all this talk of how much power the Lyr can deliver, I have noticed that I can finally listen to my LCD-2s at much lower volumes than before.  It was one of the selling points for those headphones, the fact that they did well at low volumes.  The Lyr, I have no doubt, has helped me realize that.  Still so much detail at low volumes. 
   
  Which brings me to the question of volume control.  I have not turned it much past 11:30, usually below 11 (not a Spinal Tap reference).  I think there was question as to any loss of fine-tuning due to how low the volume is kept.  In that roughly 80 degrees of motion, the volume control knob (I know there is some fancier term, the "pot" or something?) gives me plenty of fine-tuning.  It's nothing like a shower control knob where the difference between freeze-your-nVts-off cold and ****-off hot is a few micrometers.  I would also say that the knob has a nice tension to it, as in it's not too easy to turn.
   
  Amperex tubes ftw!  Not surprising for me, I had already fallen in love with them before.  I will second what was said before, the stock tubes are nothing to scoff at.  I'm gonna stop rambling about this again.  Anyone who had pulled the trigger on a pre-order, I think you won't regret it.  Anyone waiting to pull the trigger, go for it.  If you are looking at the Lyr, chances are you are a mid-fi'er like myself.  I can safely say this amp has to be perfect for people in that category.  It truly is butter-smooth.  It has enough power to drive any headphone (right?).  Somewhere else on this forum is a great thread about A/B ing amps.  With the info gleaned from that thread and the abilities of the Lyr, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last headphone amp I buy.
   
  Thanks Jason and all your Schiity co-workers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> With the info gleaned from that thread and the abilities of the Lyr, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the last headphone amp I buy.


 

 Exactly my mind set. I'm still incredibly happy with my E9, but if and when I want something like the HE-6, the Lyr wil be the only one I look at, unless another company makes another contender with the same power and similar or lower price point.


----------



## HK_sends

mikerobe said:


> Funny thing is, with all this talk of how much power the Lyr can deliver, I have noticed that I can finally listen to my LCD-2s at much lower volumes than before.  It was one of the selling points for those headphones, the fact that they did well at low volumes.  The Lyr, I have no doubt, has helped me realize that.  Still so much detail at low volumes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think that describes my impression as well; lower volume yet with a more full sound. Maybe the power is working for me. 

I missed the reference to the Amprex tubes, which type are they and where can I find them?

Thanks!

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## leesure

Amperex tubes are British made tubes renown for their musicallity.  They are tough to find and expensive, but well regarded.


----------



## mikerobe

HK,
   
  First, I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw your signature.  I have since stolen it and used it as a facecrack status and have been getting likes and comments left and right.  Friggin' classic.
   
  Secondly, I have tried (in addition to stock):
   
  GE Smoked Glass
  Sylvania
  Amperex
   
  These were all purchased from 32 Ohm Audio, which I did for ease and because I trust and dig those guys.
   
  The SQ from each of the tubes were minimally different.  The Amperex is just wonderfully warm, seems to have a smidge more clarity, and costs a little more (so be wary of me _wanting_ it to sound better).  I was not disappointed with the stock ones, but I already had these tubes laying around.  They are all 6922/6DJ8/ECC88 equivalents.  I'm not sure which the Amperex are and don't want to lose any more fingernail trying to remove it.  Next time I roll, I'll double check.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Amperex tubes are British made tubes renown for their musicallity.  They are tough to find and expensive, but well regarded.


 

 Amperex itself never made tubes in the UK.  They did sometimes rebrand tubes that were made by others in the UK.  Amperex made tubes in the US when it was a US company, and when it was bought by Philips, it made tubes in Holland.  Many of these US and Dutch tubes were very highly regarded, indeed.


----------



## leesure

Thanks for the corrected info Skylab!


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Amperex tubes are British made tubes renown for their musicallity.  They are tough to find and expensive, but well regarded.


 
  Actually the majority of Amperex were Holland made, and yes those are great musical all around tubes. I prefer the German made tubes in general, but they are not "warm" ...more airy. The sylvania 6922 is a good tube for a reasonable price and seems to appeal to a lot of folks.
   
  oops, Skylab beat me to the correction...


----------



## mindofnomind

I've probably checked this thread five times already today as I await the arrival of my Lyr tomorrow. Keep the impressions comin, fellas!


----------



## ninjikiran

Curious how it compares with the concerto on the LCD-2's.


----------



## Unilhexium

I have a question on tube rolling the Lyr- Can you replace the 6DJ8 tubes with 7DJ8 tubes? Is the amp capable of handling the 7v heater? Where do you think this tube type (sonically) fits into the 6DJ8 / 6922 / 7308 / cca / (etc. etc. ad nauseum) pantheon?
   
  Or, more specifically, are there any tubes from this family that we should definitely NOT use?


----------



## sferic

Noise level with Denon D5000 - none at all. One nice thing about Audirvana on Mac is "hog mode". No system sounds or other programs are given access. As others have said, at any non-deafening sound level I can't hear a whit of self-noise with either the Denons or my Grado PS1000's.
   
  Thru the D5000 with nothing on and knob all the way to the right at 6:00 max (definitely deafening levels, god help me if I accidentally put some signal thru) I hear a smidge of hiss, and if I press the ear cups in, a very faint ac hum, but that could be dimmers etc. At 2:00 or less, dead silence. Typically I'm listening at 9:00, MAYBE 11:00 max, and that's with Audirvana's software output at -3 db. This thing is amazingly silent.


----------



## Carlsan

Set this up about an hour ago.
  Funny story - tube fell into amp, bit of a bitch to get it out, LOL!
   
  So far so good, wow, impressed. T1 sounds excellent with this amp.
  Have to go to bed, and let this burn in a bit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can anyone take pics of the 1/4 to 3.5mm adapter? I ask because I have a D7000 that didn't come with one. I'm using a nice gold plated one bought off Amazon...

I'll probably get the Lyr in April or May.


----------



## GTL

I am very interested in that as well!
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Curious how it compares with the concerto on the LCD-2's.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





gtl said:


> I am very interested in that as well!


 

 As am I.
   
  Hey...has anyone noticed a jump in the Schiit in the FS/FT forum?  Seems Valhalla and Asgard owners are looking to upgrade to the Lyr...great deals to be had if you don't need the power or the 'latest and greatest'


----------



## llama_egg

As odd as it sounds, I'm hoping to see a rough comparison between the Lyr and the WA6SE with the LCD-2's. I know, completely different price points (500 vs 1,200), but with my LCD-2's hopefully shipping this month I'm trying to figure out if the WA is worth the extra $700.
   
  But for that matter I'm just _craaaaaazzy_.


----------



## Amused

Quote: 





llama_egg said:


> As odd as it sounds, I'm hoping to see a rough comparison between the Lyr and the WA6SE with the LCD-2's. I know, completely different price points (500 vs 1,200), but with my LCD-2's hopefully shipping this month I'm trying to figure out if the WA is worth the extra $700.
> 
> But for that matter I'm just _craaaaaazzy_.


 
  I'm interested in this comparison too. I've been tossing around the idea of getting a WA6SE for an all-rounder, but the introduction of the Lyr has piqued my interest.


----------



## Kremer930

Will be an interesting comparison but I see the need for both. The Lyr covers off the need for power and gives you more time to save for the Woo 5. The Woo's are worth having for looks alone IMO. :rolleyes:


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Will be an interesting comparison but I see the need for both. The Lyr covers off the need for power and gives you more time to save for the Woo 5. The Woo's are worth having for looks alone IMO.


 

 That sounds like good advice!  Do keep in mind that in all likelihood, the Lyr will have more slam and authority, unless you use the K1K output, although this is just my speculation since I haven't heard the Lyr yet.


----------



## llama_egg

I can honestly say, unless by some lucky turn of events, will probably never own the Woo5, way too far out of my price range (not to mention I have other hobbies, ranging from tabletop gaming to coffee). That's one of the reasons I kinda want to see a comparison between the WA6SE and the Lyr, being that one's at the top end of my price range (and is known to pair nicely with the LCD-2's) while the other is at a nice middle ground.
   
  Though I do admit, Woo gear looks beautiful, without a doubt.


----------



## KingStyles

I heard one today at our meet. Great little amp. i figured it would be bigger than that considering the power it puts out. It did stay relatively cool to the touch. Powerful enough to power any can that was thrown at it. A fun amp with good dynamics and control over the drivers.  It was missing some of the clarity and detail of some of the other amps, but all in all it is well worth its price


----------



## curtain

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> I heard one today at our meet. Great little amp. i figured it would be bigger than that considering the power it puts out. It did stay relatively cool to the touch. Powerful enough to power any can that was thrown at it. A fun amp with good dynamics and control over the drivers.  It was missing some of the clarity and detail of some of the other amps, but all in all it is well worth its price


 

 Were any of these other amps with "greater clarity and detail" cheaper than the Lyr by any chance?


----------



## leesure

I have the LCD-2's and the Woo WA6SE...anyone wanna lend me a Lyr for a proper heads up comparison?  It may happen anyway, but I'll have to wait til the next batch at least.
   
_The Woo's are worth having for looks alone IMO._
   
  You mean like this...


----------



## ninjikiran

I just want the tube power supply


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> Were any of these other amps with "greater clarity and detail" cheaper than the Lyr by any chance?


 
  No. That why I think its a great deal. For the price of the lyr, its hard to find fault in it. This one had stock tubes and was only a few days old, so there is a possibility it will get even better with burn in and you can try rolling the tubes to try to get better clarity and detail. I find most stock tubes suck so there is room for improvement for sure with tube rolling.


----------



## leesure

I'm REALLY hoping there will be one at the NY meet next weekend.


----------



## pseudohippy

Yup, I got to hear the LCD's on a Maxxed WA6SE and a stock unit. Plus I also own a W2 and a Lyr. I actually preferred the LCD's on the Lyr. Im not good for actual impressions but for my tastes as a Team Grado member I thought the brightness of the Lyr compared to the darker Woo made the LCD's sound more the way I prefer. When I get mine I think they will honestly spend more time on the Lyr. Of course I had limited time to listen and things could change but that was my initial impression at the meet. The Woo is more smooth though and sounded better with my Grados and DT880's IMO at this point. Both amps seem to be a good choice but the Woo is so smexy though I cant stop looking at it. I think anyone would be happy with either amp at this price point, I know I am.


----------



## bcg27

Has anyone used a Lyr with sensitive headphones? It seems that with a gain of 10 you will not get very much travel out of the volume pot with more sensitive headphones.


----------



## maverickronin

People have said it was fine with Denons and Grados earlier in the thread.  How sensitive are you looking for?


----------



## bcg27

Well for example, my hd600 have sensitivity of 97dB @ 1mW. With my source(1.4Vrms) and a gain of 5 on the amplifier I get close to 120dB max. Which is way more than I need as it is. My bottlehead crack has a gain of about 5.5, and I never get over about 11-12 oclock on the volume pot. With a gain of 10 this increases to about 126 dB. And the hd600 aren't even that sensitive. For say a denon d5000 w/ a sensitivity of 106 dB @ 1mW and a gain of 10 you can see why you would be staying in the 7-9 oclock region on the pot...


----------



## Happy Camper

How dynamic is the sound at listening levels? I hate to have to turn up the volume to catch the quieter passages in a piece and then get blasted when the full dynamics of it comes up. Can the Lyr deliver quiet details at low volume?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





bcg27 said:


> Well for example, my hd600 have sensitivity of 97dB @ 1mW. With my source(1.4Vrms) and a gain of 5 on the amplifier I get close to 120dB max. Which is way more than I need as it is. My bottlehead crack has a gain of about 5.5, and I never get over about 11-12 oclock on the volume pot. With a gain of 10 this increases to about 126 dB. And the hd600 aren't even that sensitive. For say a denon d5000 w/ a sensitivity of 106 dB @ 1mW and a gain of 10 you can see why you would be staying in the 7-9 oclock region on the pot...


 

 It should be fine with the Senns.  Like I said, there was someone earlier who said it was fine with his Denons and Grados.  They've apparently put well matched pots into these so all you'll need is a light touch with the knob and you shouldn't have to worry about channel imbalances even at such low levels.
   
  I've got one of these which has the same amount of gain and its never been a problem for my full sized 'phones, even with its crappy and imbalanced at low levels volume pot.  I've even actually run my SE530s (119dB/mW, 36 ohm) from it with my D2+ as a source and it worked well enough.  If the pot was as balanced as the ones in my other amps I could run my SE530s from it when fed a standard 2V RMS or so signal.
   
  People are making too big of a deal out of the gain "issue".  Its not, unless you've got amazing poor manual dexterity.  I'm sure not going to set any records in that department...


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> That sounds like good advice!  Do keep in mind that in all likelihood, the Lyr will have more slam and authority, unless you use the K1K output, although this is just my speculation since I haven't heard the Lyr yet.


 
  Astute speculation my friend. The Lyr is indeed a rocker. Only had it a few days, but initial impressions confirm that.  It struggles with complex classical passages and individualizing background vocals, however every change (tube swap, source) is easily definable. Especially the source. So much so that I've decided to incorporate the Lyr into my main system and struggle with interconnect changes manually, rather than spend cash for a dac upgrade. I only listen to the LCD's 10 to 20 percent of the time anyhow as the speaker setup is superior, so I didn't want to go too crazy on a hp amp. The Lyr suits my needs perfectly..................I can always steal guru's isa anyhow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. 
   
  The Lyr is just gorgeous with the Sound Quest SQ-12, and the money saved will enable the Granite Audio upgrade I've been drooling over. I can't see how anything at $500 can come close to this one. I know Skylab had the Elekit TU-882, would be interested in his comparison of the two if he remembers that one.  Haven't had a chance to hear the vinyl yet, but the Lyr really pulls you into the music and is already starting to settle in after 72 hours. Actually runs pretty cool too compared to the Asgard.


----------



## leesure

Thanks for the impressions!  
   
  Pseudohippy...You found the Lyr brighter than the Woo?  Which Woo, your WA2 or the WA6SE...from all I've heard, those are 2 very different sonic signatures, with the transformer coupled WA6SE being brighter than the OTL WA2.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> HK,
> 
> First, I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw your signature.  I have since stolen it and used it as a facecrack status and have been getting likes and comments left and right.  Friggin' classic.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks for the info!  Don't feel bad about stealing the sig....I "borrowed" it myself! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I am on an extended business trip, but I was able to pack my Schiit and get!  Thank's to Audez'e's portable LCD-2 box, I brought those too.  Now, I have to unpack my Schiit and listen to audio Shinola.
  I will stick with the stock tubes for a bit and see what develops.  Later, I will look at rolling.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Amperex itself never made tubes in the UK.  They did sometimes rebrand tubes that were made by others in the UK.  Amperex made tubes in the US when it was a US company, and when it was bought by Philips, it made tubes in Holland.  Many of these US and Dutch tubes were very highly regarded, indeed.


 
  Thanks for the info, Skylab!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> I heard one today at our meet. Great little amp. i figured it would be bigger than that considering the power it puts out. It did stay relatively cool to the touch. Powerful enough to power any can that was thrown at it. A fun amp with good dynamics and control over the drivers.  It was missing some of the clarity and detail of some of the other amps, but all in all it is well worth its price


 

 Hey mate, did you get to hear the Lyr AND a Burson HA-160 by any chance with the LCD-2? If so which did you prefer. I currently have the Burson but I am seriously considering selling it to get a Lyr.


----------



## Kremer930

Has anyone, who is not lucky enough to be already enjoying their Lyr, notice how long it is taking for in-depth and detailed reviews to come out? You know how it is when waiting for your own product to come out, either due to still saving up the coin or otherwise in my case waiting out postal time. I love to console myself by reading other peoples impressions. Hopefully they are all good. 

Jude said that he had his before the 25 th, from memory, and would write something and the piece by 6 Moons is stuck with the 2 week burn in period to keep the reviews consistent. 

Skylab... Put me out of my misery please?


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Thanks for the impressions!
> 
> Pseudohippy...You found the Lyr brighter than the Woo?  Which Woo, your WA2 or the WA6SE...from all I've heard, those are 2 very different sonic signatures, with the transformer coupled WA6SE being brighter than the OTL WA2.


 

 That statement was mostly aimed at my WA2 because Ive had many hours chillin at home and switching between the two. Your correct, the WA6 seemed brighter but admittedly there was a lot of chatter in that area. It was sitting next to the Stax rig which was very popular. I think, and I stress I think that I still found the Lyr brighter than the WA6. I think the Woos seem to extend further and my impression of the bass is that the Lyr is punchier but doesnt go as deep. Im not good at this though, perhaps nobody should listen to me but the Woo seems to have a warmer bottom which seems to me like deep bass. The Lyr slams me better with my phones and even the LCD. Im honest when I say I might spend more time with the Lyr and the LCD but like I said, over time I may change my opinion. I have a problem with changing my opinions. Almost like my hearing changes or my tastes change. All I know is that the Lyr didnt compare well with most of the amps I tried at the meet. But you gotta consider the fact I spent most of my time drooling of Kingstyles Balancing Act and Liquidfire. Another obvious problem with my comparison is my Woo and Lyr were hooked up to my MSII+ and the WA6's were connected to sources that cost twice or more the price with nicer cables and the whole bit. I have a complete budget rig.


----------



## KingStyles

Quote: 





> Hey mate, did you get to hear the Lyr AND a Burson HA-160 by any chance with the LCD-2? If so which did you prefer. I currently have the Burson but I am seriously considering selling it to get a Lyr.


 
  Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to hear the burson. I did hear the lyr with the lcd2 and thought it did a good job.


----------



## Skylab

kremer930 said:


> Has anyone, who is not lucky enough to be already enjoying their Lyr, notice how long it is taking for in-depth and detailed reviews to come out? You know how it is when waiting for your own product to come out, either due to still saving up the coin or otherwise in my case waiting out postal time. I love to console myself by reading other peoples impressions. Hopefully they are all good.
> 
> Jude said that he had his before the 25 th, from memory, and would write something and the piece by 6 Moons is stuck with the 2 week burn in period to keep the reviews consistent.
> 
> Skylab... Put me out of my misery please?




Sorry, can't help. I won't get my review loaner until after all orders have been filled. So it will be several weeks before I even get my hands on one, it sounds like.


----------



## guruindrag

If you ever want to hear the Isabellina for fun, I would be happy to bring it in to the shop.  Dad is still raving about the Lyr, especially with sources other than a computer.  It makes me really wish I had a better cd/vinyl collection.  
   
  I am guessing you've probably picked up your gear by now, new 1/4" plug and all.  Thanks again for bringing the Lyr down!  And the appreciation goes both ways - people like yourself make the job rewarding.  We're glad to be there for you and your "problem."   = p  
  
  Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> Your dad is lucky!  Though I haven't gotten to hear an Isabellina, I am sure you'll love the sound of the Lyr.
> 
> I'll bring it in to the shop at some point so C can play with it at the store.  Maybe when I take you up on the offer to switch out my mini-plug for a 1/4".  I've taken up so much of his time over the past few months; moving stuff around, trying 15 pairs of iems, throwing my bike bag and helmet around.  Seriously, thanks for everything.  Ken really has a great crew working up there, y'all have made it a great experience each time I come in.  Just hope my major spending is done.
> 
> Of course, y'all got in those AlgoRythm Solos now.  Crap.


----------



## Kremer930

Thanks Skylab.  Sorry.  I thought that you already had one. 
   
  Jason, if you are watching, please move Skylab up the list.  He does a great review.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tunarat

By the way, a carefully cut and placed piece of blue masking tape over the light looks awesome for those that are annoyed with the intensity.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Thanks for the impressions!
> 
> Pseudohippy...You found the Lyr brighter than the Woo?  Which Woo, your WA2 or the WA6SE...from all I've heard, those are 2 very different sonic signatures, with the transformer coupled WA6SE being brighter than the OTL WA2.


 
  The WA2 is going to exhibit more changes depending upon the can used than the WA6SE will given that it is OTL.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





tunarat said:


> Astute speculation my friend. The Lyr is indeed a rocker. Only had it a few days, but initial impressions confirm that.  It struggles with complex classical passages and individualizing background vocals, however every change (tube swap, source) is easily definable. Especially the source. So much so that I've decided to incorporate the Lyr into my main system and struggle with interconnect changes manually, rather than spend cash for a dac upgrade. I only listen to the LCD's 10 to 20 percent of the time anyhow as the speaker setup is superior, so I didn't want to go too crazy on a hp amp. The Lyr suits my needs perfectly..................I can always steal guru's isa anyhow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Gee, I wonder if she'll let me borrow her Isa??  Anyway, I'm looking forward to checking out how the Lyr handles complex passages myself when I get it.  I have some absolutely spectacular RR 192/24 stuff to listen to.  I've always loved the way Keith Johnson engineered his recordings.
   
  BTW, I just downloaded (from Chesky @ 88/24) a new album I hadn't seen before that is a three way collaboration between Jerry Garcia, David Grissman, and Tony Rice called the Pizza Tapes...a spectacular picker's paradise of a recording, that will put many smiles on yer face, a total free form jam session.  
  An absolute must have collectable for all dead heads.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Gee, I wonder if she'll let me borrow her Isa??  Anyway, I'm looking forward to checking out how the Lyr handles complex passages myself when I get it.  I have some absolutely spectacular RR 192/24 stuff to listen to.  I've always loved the way Keith Johnson engineered his recordings.
> 
> BTW, I just downloaded (from Chesky @ 88/24) a new album I hadn't seen before that is a three way collaboration between Jerry Garcia, David Grissman, and Tony Rice called the Pizza Tapes...a spectacular picker's paradise of a recording, that will put many smiles on yer face, a total free form jam session.
> An absolute must have collectable for all dead heads.


 


  I have 50 or so so of Keith johnson RR classical recordings bar none the best engineer in the world especially for classical music. Kevin try the Copland and see if it can handle the dynamic swings. That is where many amps fail in that the most demanding recording I ever heard.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> .
> 
> BTW, I just downloaded (from Chesky @ 88/24) a new album I hadn't seen before that is a three way collaboration between Jerry Garcia, David Grissman, and Tony Rice called the Pizza Tapes...a spectacular picker's paradise of a recording, that will put many smiles on yer face, a total free form jam session.
> An absolute must have collectable for all dead heads.


 

 Indeed, Kevin, that is one wonderful piece of music!  Nice recommendation


----------



## oopsydaisy

Any pics? Haven't seen the rear of this thing yet


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





oopsydaisy said:


> Any pics? Haven't seen the rear of this thing yet


 


  Have you looked on their web site yet?


----------



## oopsydaisy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Have you looked on their web site yet?


 
  Yes, but no pics of rear panel


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





oopsydaisy said:


> Yes, but no pics of rear panel


 

 There is a pic of the back in the 6moons article found here
   
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html


----------



## llama_egg

It's sounding like the Lyr and LCD-2 pairing is quite a beast at an unbeatable price. It's becoming harder and harder to justify ordering the WA6SE at double the price of the Lyr, especially with all the good things being said about it. Either way, I have the Lyr ordered and am currently slated for the end of the month shipment (the second run), so I have until then to finally make up my mind. Even if it does mean using the LCD-2's with a shady amp till then.
   
  Though I can't lie, I _really_ wish you saw more of the tubes. I've fallen in love with the look of glowing tubes, so it's really a shame that they're mostly hidden.


----------



## foaming at the ears

I received mine on Thursday but wasn't able to listen to it until now.  There's been a lot of talk about how great the Lyr is with the LCD-2, which I don't doubt, but few have commented on its synergy with the HE-5 (et al).  With my HiFiMan pair, the Schiit Lyr is fantastic.
   
  My only other amp is the CKKIII, a solid-state DIY amp.  When I bought the HE-5 in November 2010, several orthoheads recommended the CKKIII as a value-oriented amp capable of satisfying the HE-5's elementary needs.  It delivers 1.4w into 33ohm, and I am still happy I own this amp.
   
  That said, the Lyr is a significant upgrade.  Being a hybrid amp, perhaps it is unfair to make this comparison because they're different on a "fundamental" level.  However, there are benefits that I attribute to the Lyr's power and not to its hybrid design.  More specifically, the fast bass lines in "The Lemon Song," which the CKKIII slurs and the Lyr articulates, cannot be attributed to my new amp's tubey signature.  I have only heard the amp for an hour, and in the initial minutes the Lyr changes rapidly.  Whether it is the tubes or the amp burning in, the change is very noticeable in the amp's inaugural moments (the bass sounded out of place and slightly lagged, but the amp righted itself after half an hour).
   
  The amp's sound signature is beautiful if not balanced.  I will echo other people's comments about the Lyr's bass: yes, it is rich and full, and it slams.  However, the Lyr's presentation of low frequencies is not at all intrusive.  When I first heard the Lyr's powerful and yet taut bass abilities, I expected the rest of the music to sound overwhelmed, but this isn't the case.  The mids are smooth and the highs still sparkle.  The Lyr itself is not a bright amp relative to the CKKIII.  The HE-5 are known to be on the bright side, and some have complained of its sibilance (in my opinion, the HE-5 does not create sibilance but it will emphasize it in recordings that already have it).  Compared to the CKKIII, the Lyr slightly softens sibilance where it exists, but of course it won't eliminate pre-existing sibilance (e.g. Adele's "Cold Shoulder").  I'm still getting used to the Lyr's mids.  They are incredibly smooth, but the guitars still grit and grunge... it is quite great.
   
  Now, this is just a guess, but based on HiFiMan's notorious current needs, I bet the Lyr is a bigger upgrade to most amps for the HE-X line than it would be for the LCD-2.  If you own a HiFiMan headphone and you're looking for a <$500 amp to realize its potential, get the Schiit Lyr.  You can always upgrade again with new tubes! (the JJ tubes sound great, btw.  But then again, I have never rolled better tubes).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since I am looking for some good bass slam, I believe I will skip my dream purchase of the HE-6  which isn't exactly bass bumping, and go for the HE-4 which costs 1/3 the price, is known by the few who own it (it was overshadowed by the HE-6.... Hifiman's own fault for releasing them at the same time) to have lots of bass authority and plenty of sparkle. The Schiit Lyr should make it sing as well. 
   
  I believe this will all come to fruition in April is everything goes well. I can't wait. I wish they put it up for sale on Amazon. I'd get it today.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> BTW, I just downloaded (from Chesky @ 88/24) a new album I hadn't seen before that is a three way collaboration between Jerry Garcia, David Grissman, and Tony Rice called the Pizza Tapes...a spectacular picker's paradise of a recording, that will put many smiles on yer face, a total free form jam session.


 
  Hey, thanks for that Kevin, I didn't realize they had added the extra stuff to those initial recordings...just ordered the 3 cd set from the dawg.
   
  I've decided to try and hang up the Lyr for the week to let it burn. I'm thinking this amp needs a bit of time, so I don't want to post about it's perceived weaknesses at this point. That said, it's truly as advertised ... dynamic and musical ..... no doubt about that! 
   
  If used with the LCD-2's however, it's quite apparent that for those using a 3 or 4 hundred dollar dac, well, it ( the source) simply will not cut the mustard. Not that you have to worry about that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So what DAC will then? Apparently performance is rated by price...


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So what DAC will then? Apparently performance is rated by price...


 

 Just saying the Lyr - LCD combo will expose the source


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I wasn't being mean or anything. I actually wanna know, as I want a good DAC to replace my E7... for the soon to order Lyr and possible HE-4. Wanna know what good options are there for DAC-only that won't destroy my wallet too much. Something in the range of $600 (DAC ONLY, dont want or need a DAC+AMP combo as my amp will be the Lyr). Also it has to be bought on Amazon... I was thinking of the Music Hall 25.3... as long as I don't have to mod it (edit: scratch that, it's a DAC/AMP...no). Even cheaper but worthwhile would be GREAT. It'll be for the D7000 + HE-4 most likely.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I wasn't being mean or anything. I actually wanna know, as I want a good DAC to replace my E7... for the soon to order Lyr and possible HE-4. Wanna know what good options are there for DAC-only that won't destroy my wallet too much. Something in the range of $600 that can be bought on Amazon... I was thinking of the Music Hall 25.3... as long as I don't have to mod it. Even cheaper but worthwhile would be GREAT. It'll be for the D7000 + HE-4 most likely.


 


  Im with you, I want to get the Music Hall but at the same time with word from Jason that a DAC is indeed forthcoming I think I have to wait for the Schiit to come down the pipes. I think my MSII+ did quite well comparing it with better products recently but I think an upgrade is in order since I have two amps and 1 DAC. Im so torn on waiting or buying now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that's kind of what I myself am leaning towards. Dealing with the E7 as my DAC for now (Fiio needs to hurry with the release of the L7 cable to allow DAC only use with other amps), and waiting on the Schiit DAC, as I'm a sucker for uniformity, and would love a full Schiit Setup the way I have a full Fiio setup atm.


----------



## Yuceka

If you are willing to pay $600, squeeze a hundred bucks more and get a Meier StageDAC, I don't think you'll need anything else.


----------



## maverickronin

x2
   
  Crossfeed = Win


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> If you are willing to pay $600, squeeze a hundred bucks more and get a Meier StageDAC, I don't think you'll need anything else.


 


  Unfortunately, I'm only willing to spend that much on Amazon, as I don't have the direct funds to spend that much on the Lyr + HE-4 + Such an expensive DAC. I have some breathing room with my Amazon Store Card however.


----------



## maverickronin

Do you get paid in amazon gift cards or something?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, no. I just have an Amazon Store Card with a pretty good spending limit. I have breathing room as I can pay that off in small payments as opposed to directly out of pocket. I'm already considering the Lyr and HE-4 which will cost me nearly $1000 out of pocket, which is already a huge hit. So you can see why I'm not trying to continue taking a direct hit with an expensive DAC away from Amazon. If the Stage DAC was available on Amazon, I'd get it there. If someone were to trade me one of these things for something they want from Amazon, I'd be more than happy to do so. <_<
   
  edit: I just realized that Schiit sells the Valhalla and Asgard on Amazon! I think I'm gonna wait until they sell the Lyr on there. YES!


----------



## tunarat

mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I wasn't being mean or anything. I actually wanna know, as I want a good DAC to replace my E7... for the soon to order Lyr and possible HE-4. Wanna know what good options are there for DAC-only that won't destroy my wallet too much. Something in the range of $600 (DAC ONLY, dont want or need a DAC+AMP combo as my amp will be the Lyr). Also it has to be bought on Amazon... I was thinking of the Music Hall 25.3... as long as I don't have to mod it (edit: scratch that, it's a DAC/AMP...no). Even cheaper but worthwhile would be GREAT. It'll be for the D7000 + HE-4 most likely.


   
  Hey, I know, it's all good. I'm a source vrs amp guy in general though. The MHDT dacs are very good, mikerobe was raving about the setup earlier. I honestly don't recall which one I heard at the 32 ohm store a few months back, but it was really butter sweet.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> edit: I just realized that Schiit sells the Valhalla and Asgard on Amazon! I think I'm gonna wait until they sell the Lyr on there. YES!


 


  "You're either part of the solution, or part of the problem"
   
  Sorry, couldn't resist


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have good credit.  Just rather finance such a purchase atm.   I'd probably pay off the Lyr in about 3 months anyway.


----------



## Kremer930

Got my Lyr today to the west coast of Australia.  Sweet.  
   
  Unpacking the amp I was expecting it to be a bit of a lightweight but it is actually a little more sturdy than I expected.  I think that someone else may have said that it would survive being dropped from a metre and I pretty much agree.  The build quality is really nice.  It is small and the tubes barely peep more than about 6mm through the top of the casing, especially if you exclude the littel points on the top of the tubes.  There are four orange leds inside the amp spaced evenly around the tubes to help support that mellow tube glow.  Looks quite cool.
   
  I look at the physical size of the Lyr compared to my Darkvoice 337 tube amp.  It is hard to believe that this little amp is the more powerful of the two.  The Darkvoice is significantly bigger than double the size in all dimensions.
   
  Listening to the Lyr is quite interesting.  The amp is definitely changing character.  I have been listening for approx 2 hours now to Angus and Julia Stone and the bass is definitely stronger than the DV.  People say that they like the LCD2's due to the bass quality.  I personally chose the HE6 after listening to the LCDs on a Meier Concerto and thinking that the highs were too rolled off compared to my K702's.  The HE6 have a beautiful detailed and airy top end.  With the Lyr added to the equation I cant ever imagine wanting more bass.  You can listen to bass guitars and rather than hear just a smooth low bass rumble, you can now hear the vibration of the strings as it oscillates.  The bass is tight, deep and very detailed.
   
  When I first listened to the amp the first thing that was really obvious was the midrange.  It was as if I had gone from a tube amp to solid state.  But I think that may have calmed down now with some burn in.  I will keep an ear on this to see how it changes.
   
  The Darkvoice may have some more timbre to the upper bass such as in a males voice.  It is difficult to tell as it could be that the ends of the frequency response have been lifted by the Lyr.  It doesnt sound unnatural at all.  I think that I was possibly just used to hearing the bass rolled off slightly.  Now it punches me in the head via both ears.
   
  My darkvoice has been upgraded with some Tungsol and RCA tubes and sounds significantly better than standard.  The Lyr is already holding its own.  I will give the standard tubes a week to burn in and will then try the Genelex ECC88 tubes.  (If I can get the standard tubes out.  Now I can see why people complain).
   
  If this amp cost twice the price I would still buy it again.  I am impressed.  Sorry if my comments are a little disjointed.  I keep getting distracted by the tunes coming out of my HE6. 
   
  I forgot to say that the sound stage is great too.  Not sure if it is some slight mixing of the left and right channels or just some magic Schiit but the music wraps around really well such that the sound moves well forward of your ears. 
   
  If anyone is thinking of putting together a headphone kit then this amp is such an easy choice.  Saving so much on the amp means that more people will be able to afford LCD2's and HE6's. 
   
  My listening impressions are just my thoughts on what my ears hear.  Feel free to form your own opinions.  The DAC used is a DACmagic.  And it matches really nicely.  Simmilar size and colour.
   
  My final comments...  Thankyou to Jason and the Schiit Team.  Awesome work.  When is the DAC coming??


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





oopsydaisy said:


> Yes, but no pics of rear panel


 
  Sorry about that, I could have sworn I saw a pic of the rear of the Lyr up there.


----------



## mikerobe

Sorry about not fine-tuning my picture taking.  It is on a glass table, thus the differing shades of grey.  Pretty sure this will end any questions about the rear panel.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> ... People say that they like the LCD2's due to the bass quality.  I personally chose the HE6 after listening to the LCDs on a Meier Concerto and thinking that the highs were too rolled off compared to my K702's. ...


  Thanks Kremer930,
   
  I was particularly intrigued by your comments about the LCD2's highs being rolled off.  I had the same observation compared to my HD800's and currently have a thread going about potential amplifiers that might remedy the situation, given the feedback from some folks that the LCD2's come alive with the more powerful amplifiers:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/543084/lcd-2-details-transparency
   
  Do you still have access to a pair of LCD2's that you could try with your new Lyr to see if the Lyr lessens the rolled off highs you experienced earlier?
   
  My guess is that it won't make much difference as the Concerto has plenty of power itself, but it might be interesting to hear the impact the Lyr has on the LCD2's SQ.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## USAudio

On another note, I've just quickly gone back through parts of this thread and it's interesting how some folks perceive the Lyr as having difficulty with complex passages whereas others say it really shines there.
  Isn't the ability to resolve complex musical passages and sorting through congestion "typically" more a function of the *source* and not the amplifier?
  If you have a quality dedicated DAC or high-end CD player, shouldn't the Lyr be able to easily pass that level of resolution on to the headphones with minimal disruption?
   
   
  (No matter which side you come down on the amplifier issue, this old Stereo Review article "Do all amplifiers sound the same?" is an interesting read: http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf )


----------



## oopsydaisy

Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> Sorry about not fine-tuning my picture taking.  It is on a glass table, thus the differing shades of grey.  Pretty sure this will end any questions about the rear panel.


 
  Thank you


----------



## roachbro

This is in my opinion, one of the better looking designs and smart at that too. The curved face plate is really attractive, and well you have lesser screws to deal with. That said, it's all cosmetic and what really counts is performance. Never tried a hybrid tube amp. hmmmmm.


----------



## leesure

I just filed my taxes and am getting a nice refund...Some just may be heading Schiit's way.


----------



## debitsohn

ugh wish i had a tax refund coming.


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





usaudio said:


>


 


   


  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> On another note, I've just quickly gone back through parts of this thread and it's interesting how some folks perceive the Lyr as having difficulty with complex passages whereas others say it really shines there.
> Isn't the ability to resolve complex musical passages and sorting through congestion "typically" more a function of the *source* and not the amplifier?
> If you have a quality dedicated DAC or high-end CD player, shouldn't the Lyr be able to easily pass that level of resolution on to the headphones with minimal disruption?
> 
> ...


 

 Unfortunately I dont own a set of LCD2's.  I love the look of them but the audition on the Meier concerto didnt live up to the hype that I had read.  I dont know why.  There are so many great things written about them that I feel that something wasnt quite right on the day that I listened to them. 
   
  As for the Lyrs ability to resolve difficult passages, my current view is that it may lack a touch in the midrange resolution compared to my Darkvoice but it is miles ahead in the bass resolution.  I am hoping that some burn in time may correct this problem.  It feels like it is possibly correctable via a tube change.  My Darkvoice certainly improved in this area when I changed to the Tungsol tubes.
   
  I have had a listen with my K702's and this is a very special pairing.  All of the usual 702 detail is there plus some added bass slam.  The sound to cost ratio on this pairing is phenomenal.  I was half thinking of selling my 702's to put the funds towards a DAC upgrade but with the Lyr matching and suiting so well...looks like I have more saving to do towards my DAC.


----------



## Duckman

Lyr has landed! Like the small footprint. Weighty.
   
  Look forward to getting it home.


----------



## foaming at the ears

Kremer930,
   
  Is there any chance you could comment on how the Lyr pairs with your HE-6, specifically how it compares with what you were using before to amp it?
   
  Edit: I wasn't sure if you were using the Darkvoice to amp the HE-6 before..


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





			
				Kremer930 said:
			
		

> I have had a listen with my K702's and this is a very special pairing.  All of the usual 702 detail is there plus some added bass slam.  The sound to cost ratio on this pairing is phenomenal.  I was half thinking of selling my 702's to put the funds towards a DAC upgrade but with the Lyr matching and suiting so well...looks like I have more saving to do towards my DAC.


 

  
  Wise move, waiting for the DAC and not ditching the 702's.
  I was in this quandry in the recent past.
  I found an amp that matched well with the AKG's, but my source was lacking.
  Once I found a good DAC to use with this setup, I was in sonic nirvana.
  The K702's never sounded better, I'm so glad I kept them!
  I may buy a HE6 & LYR in the future when my funds loosen up a little and all of the LYR Schiit dies down.
  I would love to hear it with my 702's


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Look forward to getting it home.


 
  Please let us know what you think!


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Lyr has landed! Like the small footprint. Weighty.
> 
> Look forward to getting it home.


 
  Let us know how it compares to your Burson (with your LCD-2s) please


----------



## Duckman

Sorry Hero Kid. The Burson was a loaner from Matthew133, and is no longer with me.


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> Kremer930,
> 
> Is there any chance you could comment on how the Lyr pairs with your HE-6, specifically how it compares with what you were using before to amp it?
> 
> Edit: I wasn't sure if you were using the Darkvoice to amp the HE-6 before..


 

 I havent done much in the way of back to back testing between the DV337 and the Lyr with my HE6.  I am really trying to rack up the hours on the Lyr to see how the standard tubes burn in.  From my memory of the DV with the HE6 the DV may be slightly more crisp and ever so slightly airy on the top end.  I am listening to the Lyr now as I write this and there isnt quite the same level of air over the treble.  I dont think that the treble is missing or anything but I have a sense that the DV did a better job in this area. 
   
  But then when I get to a male backing vocal or some drums kicking in it almost scares me.  It really does kick in with some authority.  I think this is probably why the sound output from the Lyr sounds slightly darker to me than my DV.  In an overall balance of frequencies the bass information has been lifted so much that the rest no longer stands so tall.  Please dont misunderstand me to be saying that the Lyr is corrupting or colouring the music.  It is more that it is now playing the music as it should have been rather than before where part of the lower frequencies were missing due to a lack of power to fully play them. 
   
  I also think this is why so many people are happy with such a wide range of amps that seemingly shouldnt be capable of powering the HE6.  The HE6 can still sound great on the majority of frequencies but in the deep bass which really consumes large amounts of current other amps may not be fully delivering.  I would love to hear from someone that has the HE6 and the LCD2's.  My theory is that bass may be far more even when the lyr is powering them.
   
  My initial thoughts on the loss of prominence of the treble was a drop in detail and resolving power of the Lyr.  I now really think that this is not the case.  I will know for sure once I try some different tubes.  The Genelex ECC88 have been recommended as being good examples and I have a matched pair on their way.  Listening to Yellow Brick Road by Angus and Julia Stone right now and the steel strings on the guitar and the plectum sliding over the strings and the occassional string vibrating against a fret sounds very detailed.  The standard tubes are not to be sneezed at.  I am just guessing that other tubes may have even more to give.  Keep in mind that this amp only costs $450.  I have just spent another $100 on two tubes.  I should have  the tubes any day now so should be able to share my thoughts within the next week.
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Sorry Hero Kid. The Burson was a loaner from Matthew133, and is no longer with me.


 

 Very interested to hear your impressions Dave! Please let me know what you think. Still anxiously awaiting the arrival of my LCD-2s


----------



## Duckman

Had a bit of ground loop hum last night and will have to find a cheater cable to see if it fixes the problem. I can tell that beyond the low level noise, the amp sounds very robust and powers the LCD2 with ease.
   
  The other thing is that unless your fingers are made of toughened Linguini, it is extremely difficult to remove tubes. Is there such a thing as tube forceps 
  
  Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Very interested to hear your impressions Dave! Please let me know what you think. Still anxiously awaiting the arrival of my LCD-2s


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Had a bit of ground loop hum last night and will have to find a cheater cable to see if it fixes the problem. I can tell that beyond the low level noise, the amp sounds very robust and powers the LCD2 with ease.
> 
> The other thing is that *unless your fingers are made of toughened Linguini, it is extremely difficult to remove tubes*. Is there such a thing as tube forceps


 

 Haha. Well said. I'll have to hit you up for further impressions in coming weeks after you've had more time to listen.  Good luck with the hum issue!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Had a bit of ground loop hum last night and will have to find a cheater cable to see if it fixes the problem. I can tell that beyond the low level noise, the amp sounds very robust and powers the LCD2 with ease.
> 
> The other thing is that unless your fingers are made of toughened Linguini, it is extremely difficult to remove tubes. Is there such a thing as tube forceps


 
  Yes, there are/were tube pullers back in the day.  Don't know if they're still available.
http://www.stevenjohnson.com/tubepinst.htm  Check out the tube gizmo.


----------



## Pricklely Peete

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It's not about the continuous power.  It's about the power reserves to give you undistorted short term dynamics...a loud sharp snare drum, for example.  You may not need more than say 750mW in 90% of the passages, but then the amp may be called upon to deliver 3W for an instant.  The Lyr, theoretically, would handle that with aplomb, while a 1W RMS amp would clip and distort.


 

 Yup...dynamic headroom is very _very_ important for transient peaks and demanding sustained crescendos where a normal (less powerful) amp would run into compression issues and run out of steam during peak demands over a longer period of time (say a second or two..or three or four). This amp is intriguing to say the least, good to see Schiit reacting to the needs of the headfi crowd as new can designs demand HQ creative flexible amping solutions. I bet a set of NOS Amperex white/orange label 7308 gold pins would be a very tasty match with this amp.
   
  For 449USD this is a great deal. It's the same price as the old Bada PH-12 and likely has none of the PH-12's documented issues ( excessive heat causing premature part failure ).
   
  Is there a way to lower the gain on the Lyr (citing the concern using it with a hot source and low impedance cans) or is that a non concern with cans over 120 ohms ?
   
  Peete.


----------



## Duckman

Haven't found anything on the net yet. Very cool though. Thanks Kevin.
   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Yes, there are/were tube pullers back in the day.  Don't know if they're still available.
> http://www.stevenjohnson.com/tubepinst.htm  Check out the tube gizmo.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> I bet a set of NOS Amperex white/orange label 7308 gold pins would be a very tasty match with this amp.
> 
> 
> Peete.


 

 Yep, the best match I've found so far is indeed the Amperex Jan/CEP 7308


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





pricklely peete said:


> Yup...dynamic headroom is very _very_ important for transient peaks and demanding sustained crescendos where a normal (less powerful) amp would run into compression issues and run out of steam during peak demands over a longer period of time (say a second or two..or three or four). This amp is intriguing to say the least, good to see Schiit reacting to the needs of the headfi crowd as new can designs demand HQ creative flexible amping solutions. I bet a set of NOS Amperex white/orange label 7308 gold pins would be a very tasty match with this amp.
> 
> For 449USD this is a great deal. It's the same price as the old Bada PH-12 and likely has none of the PH-12's documented issues ( excessive heat causing premature part failure ).
> 
> ...


 
  How about using in line attenuators?  Used to be commercial versions in -3dB and -10dB flavors.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Haven't found anything on the net yet. Very cool though. Thanks Kevin.


 

 I plan to use a couple of pieces of Gorilla duct tape to extract them when the amp arrives.


----------



## mikerobe

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I plan to use a couple of pieces of Gorilla duct tape to extract them when the amp arrives.


 

 No need.  Tubes are packed in their own little box with foam.  One of the nice things about the packing of the amp for shipping.


----------



## maverickronin

Here's a few at Parts Express.  Never tried them myself though.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> No need.  Tubes are packed in their own little box with foam.  One of the nice things about the packing of the amp for shipping.


 

 Yeah, but I meant to pull the tubes for rolling...


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Here's a few at Parts Express.  Never tried them myself though.


 


  Good find!


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





duckman said:


> ... The other thing is that unless your fingers are made of toughened Linguini, it is extremely difficult to remove tubes. Is there such a thing as tube forceps


   
  I believe I read in some thread that Jason said future runs will have some additional beveling around the tubes to give more room to grab and that the Schiit guys use some kind of rubber tubing to pull those tubes ... what kind I have no idea!

   
  Edit:  Here it is --  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/542064/schiit-lyr-shipping-impressions/60#post_7317620


----------



## Duckman

Brilliant!


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





duckman said:


> .
> 
> The other thing is that unless your fingers are made of toughened Linguini, it is extremely difficult to remove tubes. Is there such a thing as tube forceps


 


 Find a "chinese finger" that will fit over the diameter of the tube.
  Problem with most of the bamboo ones are that they are too small, made for a kids finger.
  There are stainless steel wire braid models used for pulling large diameter wire cable in conduit.
  They were also used in the "old days" for pulling tubes out of tight places in radios and tv sets.
  One must be careful when pulling the tube with a wire chinese finger.
  It can break the glass if too much upward pulling force is exerted.
  You should also initiate a slight side to side rocking motion on the top of the tube with the other hand while pulling up.
  And it goes without saying (but I am saying it) that the amp should be turned off and unplugged when doing this kind of work.
  Also wait for a few minutes after unplugging for any internal power capacitors to auto-discharge before sticking metal things inside the chassis.


----------



## grokit

I believe that it has also been mentioned in this thread that the foam wrap-arounds that the stock Lyr tubes are packed with can be helpful for extracting tubes out of it, so hold onto that foam (in more ways than one) !


----------



## todd77

Is anyone getting a faint buzz from the LYR? With my Sennheiser HD650 and HD380, I can hear a faint buzz / hum coming from the amp (more so with the HD380) even when the volume is turned completely down. It seems the buzz doesn't get louder or softer when the volume is adjusted. It's a constant soft buzz that only goes off when the amp is off. I've tried plugging my LYR directly into a wall socket by itself (it's a twin wall socket and the other socket is empty) and without any cables connected to it (except for the power cable, of course) and the buzz is still there. I've tested with the default JJ tubes as well as a pair of Sylvania 6DJ8s and the results are the same. Is this normal?


----------



## maverickronin

It may be interference from something nearby.  Try turning off _everything else_ in the vicinity and see if it goes away.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It may be interference from something nearby.  Try turning off _everything else_ in the vicinity and see if it goes away.


 


  Or slowly rotating the amp while listening to the noise.  If it's induced noise you may find a null point as you rotate the amp.


----------



## todd77

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> It may be interference from something nearby.  Try turning off _everything else_ in the vicinity and see if it goes away.


 

 Yep, everything that's connected to a wall socket has been turned off in my room but the faint buzzing is still there. The only thing that's probably still on is my roommate's cellphone and iTouch, which I can't seem to locate... Also, when I tried plugging my LYR to the same multi-outlet surge that is connected to the same wall socket as my laptop's, I get tons of interference - every move of my mouse will result in an equivalent buzzing noise - yikes!


----------



## grokit

You could try a cheater plug on the Lyr temporarily and see if the buzzing goes away. If it does, remove the cheater plug from the Lyr and try it on everything else one at a time until you isolate the culprit. This should work if it's a ground loop issue anyways.


----------



## maverickronin

Are you in a dorm or a crowded apartment building or something?  Its possible you've just got inordinate amounts of line noise.  If that's the problem you'll need some kind of power conditioner to get rid of it.
   
  Also, is the mouse wireless?  Does noise from the mouse show up when the Lyr is plugged into a different socket?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





grokit said:


> You could try a cheater plug on the Lyr temporarily and see if the buzzing goes away. If it does, remove the cheater plug from the Lyr and try it on everything else one at a time until you isolate the culprit. This should work if it's a ground loop issue anyways.


 

 I don't think a cheater plug would do anything.  He said it does it even when nothing else but the power cord is plugged into the Lyr.  Based on that, its probably either line noise or RFI.


----------



## todd77

Yep, the cheater plug trick worked for the mouse interference (it's a USB mouse, BTW), which is why I moved the LYR to a different power tap and thus, eliminating that problem. However, the faint buzz remains.
   
  I live in a house, actually, with a few others but I'm probably the only one awake at the moment and probably the heaviest electrical / electronic equipment user in the entire household lol... I'll try connecting the LYR to other electrical outlets in the morning to see if it's any different.


----------



## grokit

I was going to ask, wouldn't the ground loop come from the power plug? But never mind, you answered it already.


----------



## Skylab

Such a buzz can also be introduced by a dimmer switch for a light, and it can be almost anywhere in the house and still do that.


----------



## Kremer930

tunarat said:


> Yep, the best match I've found so far is indeed the Amperex Jan/CEP 7308




I am currently running the Genelex ECC88 tubes and compared to the stock tubes they add more air and more midrange detail and forwardness. The bass may also be attenuated slightly but on the HE6 there is still plenty left. 

I really like them. I haven't tried them as yet with my K702 cans.


----------



## foaming at the ears

Todd,
   
  I get the same buzz as you, but only with my more sensitive headphones.  The Grado SR225 and Shure 840 get a faint buzz, even when the volume is all the way down.  The HE-5 gets no buzz.
   
  Since I only listen to the HE-5 these days, I don't really mind.


----------



## mikerobe

Interesting, I only got (the faintest) buzz/hum when I switched to my Amperex tubes.
   
  I rolled back and forth from them this morning, essentially to confirm.  Those tubes just sound so great, I want to keep them.  My hum is quiet enough I don't notice it while listening to music, and I seem to not be getting any fatigue from it.  In fact I seem to be getting near minimal fatigue from my system right now, as I just keep listening and listening.


----------



## Skylab

Some vintage tubes will hum.  It's just the way it is.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  Like Skylab said, vintage tubes will hum. New tubes may hum too, though we sort for lowest hum and also do a bunch of tricks to make the heaters behave. 
   
  If you're experiencing extremely low-level hum on high-sensitivity headphones (say, Grados)--and I'm talking *low*--as in, you're living on top of a mountain, nothing is on in your house, and you can hear a tiny bit of hum with your Grados--that's normal. 
   
  If you're experiencing more than that, it may be grounding. Lyr is extremely sensitive to grounding. It really wants a decent wall outlet with a solid ground. You may get best results by connecting Lyr to a solid AC ground and lifting the AC ground from other components in the chain. Also, Lyr has enough bandwidth to amplify hash and grunge in the air, so if it's sitting on top of, or near to, a radiative component (computer, DAC, ham radio transmitter--ha) it may pick up some RF that it's radiating. It also should go without saying that Lyr's metal chassis should be isolated from any other metal chassis or rack.
   
  That said, if you've gone through all that, and you simply have too much hum on headphones like LCD-2s, HE-4/5/6, or Beyer 600 ohm phones, there's something wrong. Contact us, and we'll be happy to help get the amp sorted out.


----------



## todd77

Thanks for all the replies. I was just worried that I may have gotten a faulty unit but it seems that it is normal, whew. I can finally go back to simply enjoying it.


----------



## Dan S

How do you know how strong an attenuator to get (e.g. -3dB vs -10dB)? Trial and error?
   
  I've got two places I could use some of these. A DAC that sends too hot a signal into my portable headphone amp, and an integrated in the bedroom that I'd like to play at lower volume levels without getting channel imbalance.
   
  (Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic. I've also been thinking about buying a Lyr and have some sensitive headphones and a penchant for low volume listening.)

  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> How about using in line attenuators?  Used to be commercial versions in -3dB and -10dB flavors.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





dan s said:


> How do you know how strong an attenuator to get (e.g. -3dB vs -10dB)? Trial and error?
> 
> I've got two places I could use some of these. A DAC that sends too hot a signal into my portable headphone amp, and an integrated in the bedroom that I'd like to play at lower volume levels without getting channel imbalance.
> 
> (Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic. I've also been thinking about buying a Lyr and have some sensitive headphones and a penchant for low volume listening.)


 
  Yeah, at this level, it is somewhat trial and error.  Rule of thumb...  -3dB is a discernible change in volume, -6dB to -10dB is more or less a subjective halving of volume.  If you're going to mess around with this more than once, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a selection of the attenuators to try.  Best of luck!
   
  Frankly, for sensitive headphones with a uber powerful amp, attenuation between the can and the amp makes more sense, but you can't use these attenuators for that purpose.


----------



## Happy Camper

Attenuators open up a huge set of options for amping.


----------



## MikoLayer

Awesome packing, even sweeter aesthetics on the amp 
   
  Not a big believer in burn-ins, but I barely got a few hours on it to reach any kind of conclusion yet. 
   
  I liked it for the most part, but with the HD650 PPX3 sound much better overall (OTL magic, I guess). Doesn't sound anemic or distort like the PPX3 with the HE5-LE though.
   
  Dynamics and soundstage seems quite good as previously mentioned, but a bit too bright to my ears. I wonder if this will change with more burn-in, for better or worse? Looks like someone mentioned tuberolling didn't make a drastic difference in sound... Maybe I should try some EQ'ing in foobar? With the brightness tamed, I should be able to listen to it some more for a better write up


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mikolayer said:


> Awesome packing, even sweeter aesthetics on the amp
> 
> Not a big believer in burn-ins, but I barely got a few hours on it to reach any kind of conclusion yet.
> 
> ...


 
  I would recommend just use and enjoy it for a few weeks before you undertake a quest to change its sound profile.  Give the tubes time to settle in, and get those electrons flowing.


----------



## mikerobe

Quote: 





mikolayer said:


> Looks like someone mentioned tuberolling didn't make a drastic difference in sound... Maybe I should try some EQ'ing in foobar? With the brightness tamed, I should be able to listen to it some more for a better write up


 


  I don't know if this was in response to something I said before.  I think I did say the tube changes were "minimally different."  How can I better word it?  My intent was to state that I wouldn't necessarily run out and seek new tubes.  The changes are noticeable.  If you have the tubes laying around, certainly start a'rollin'.  Also, if the amp is just a hair to bright, then tube rolling is probably exactly what the doctor ordered.  I just felt that the stock tubes were just fine, and that if I hadn't had those tubes lying around, I would still be super happy with this Schiit.  Totally agree with kwkarth, just "get those electrons flowing."


----------



## Kremer930

Interesting that the Lyr is bright to your ears.  I felt it was slightly dark from my Dacmagic.  The Genelex tubes noticeably lift the midrange and air. 
   
  This amp is making me love my K702's to a whole new level.  If people liked the detail of the 702's but were always disapointed with the bass output then the Lyr may be your solution.  Not rattling deep bass in the same way as the HE6 from the Lyr but very good and a great layer of transparency.
  
  Quote: 





mikolayer said:


> Awesome packing, even sweeter aesthetics on the amp
> 
> Not a big believer in burn-ins, but I barely got a few hours on it to reach any kind of conclusion yet.
> 
> ...


----------



## Duckman

I've got the same problem. Tried a cheater plug last night to no effect.
   
  I'll be sending it back for testing. Jason has been excellent about the whole issue.
   
  I certainly hope that the Lyr is compatable with the environment and gear I'm using it with, becaue apart from the hum issue, it sounds great and I want to keep it.
   
  Skylab mentioned the possibility of light dimmer interferance. I wonder if this might be the case with some amp designs and not others?
   
   
  Quote: 





todd77 said:


> Is anyone getting a faint buzz from the LYR? With my Sennheiser HD650 and HD380, I can hear a faint buzz / hum coming from the amp (more so with the HD380) even when the volume is turned completely down. It seems the buzz doesn't get louder or softer when the volume is adjusted. It's a constant soft buzz that only goes off when the amp is off. I've tried plugging my LYR directly into a wall socket by itself (it's a twin wall socket and the other socket is empty) and without any cables connected to it (except for the power cable, of course) and the buzz is still there. I've tested with the default JJ tubes as well as a pair of Sylvania 6DJ8s and the results are the same. Is this normal?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Such a buzz can also be introduced by a dimmer switch for a light, and it can be almost anywhere in the house and still do that.


 


 And for that reason, this weekend I plan to remove the last 2 dimmer switches left in my home.


----------



## Fanga

Out of curiosity, have you ever heard the AKG k702 with the Asgard? I'm curious what the differences between those 2 amps are since I'm running the asgard now with pretty good results, but the Lyr presents possibly great synergy and upgrade room for the future (+ immediate benefits). 
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Interesting that the Lyr is bright to your ears.  I felt it was slightly dark from my Dacmagic.  The Genelex tubes noticeably lift the midrange and air.
> 
> This amp is making me love my K702's to a whole new level.  If people liked the detail of the 702's but were always disapointed with the bass output then the Lyr may be your solution.  Not rattling deep bass in the same way as the HE6 from the Lyr but very good and a great layer of transparency.


----------



## chesebert

You need a better DAC more than you need the new amp. Asgard is perfectly fine for the DAC you have. You can probably (guessing here) find a used Stello or PS Audio DAC for the price of Lyr.
  
  Quote: 





fanga said:


> Out of curiosity, have you ever heard the AKG k702 with the Asgard? I'm curious what the differences between those 2 amps are since I'm running the asgard now with pretty good results, but the Lyr presents possibly great synergy and upgrade room for the future (+ immediate benefits).


----------



## Kremer930

chesebert said:


> You need a better DAC more than you need the new amp. Asgard is perfectly fine for the DAC you have. You can probably (guessing here) find a used Stello or PS Audio DAC for the price of Lyr.




This being Head-fi and all... I have not heard an Asgard before but why not plan on upgrading both! 

But seriously, if you are getting good bass already out of your Asgard then try for some extra detail and definition from a DAC upgrade first. Perhaps try to have a listen to a Lyr or DAC upgrade at a head meet.


----------



## Sophonax

I second the comments about the Lyr and the K701/2 -- it's a great match.  I've got all three Schiit amps, and the Lyr gives the K701s the extra dynamics and punch in the bass that they seem to be lacking otherwise.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Skylab mentioned the possibility of light dimmer interferance. I wonder if this might be the case with some amp designs and not others?


 
   
  Definitely.  I have had certain amps (mostly solid state, actually) that buzz due to the dimmers in my kitchen.  Many others do not.  And all I have to do is turn the dimmers OFF 
  
   


  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> And for that reason, this weekend I plan to remove the last 2 dimmer switches left in my home.


 


  I really need to do that - too bad the wife won't let me....


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> If you are willing to pay $600, squeeze a hundred bucks more and get a Meier StageDAC, I don't think you'll need anything else.


 


  Right now my bedside rig is a StageDac + Lyr + HD800 (still on the waiting list for the LCD2 lol)
   
  It would take quite a bit of convincing to get me to move up from the StageDac.  And I really can't say enough good things about the crossfeed implementation...  Jan nailed it.


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Skylab mentioned the possibility of light dimmer interferance. I wonder if this might be the case with some amp designs and not others?


 


  Absolutely.  Trying to troubleshoot/fix a household electrical hum problem can get pretty complicated sometimes.  I once had a motion detector that would actually cause the panel breaker to vibrate so hard you could hear it audibly humming from 10 feet away.  It's a little unnerving to walk to your main panel and have it sound like small motor is running inside it.  Traced that to a CFL being on the same circuit, pulled the CFL and the problem stopped.
   
  For light dimmer interference, make sure you are only using high quality dimmers.  This is not the time to cheap out.  Make sure that there are no florescent fixtures on the circuit (seems obvious, but people do miss it).  Two dimmers on the same circuit can cause even more problems, if you for whatever reason need two again make sure they are high quality, preferably of the same model/manufacturer and intended for this purpose. 
   
  Check all grounds, everywhere.  Check all connections, everywhere.  Don''t backwire outlets.  Remove any backwired outlets and toss them in the trash.  Replace with high quality outlets and use the screw terminals. 
   
  You can turn off all the breakers in your panel except for one that hopefully only has a few outlets.  Plug in your rig and nothing else into that circuit and if there is no hum, start turning on breakers one at a time until the hum appears.  In some cases it could be be due to a combination of circuits so in addition to one at a time on you can try other combinations (half on/half off, all on and turn off one at a time, etc).  Audit all devices on the offending circuit(s) and try to figure out the cause.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I really need to do that - too bad the wife won't let me....


 


  I find forgiveness is easier to ask for than permission.


----------



## Duckman

No noise with my old Leben or B22.
   
  Too bad I can't do anything about dimmers. I'm renting.
   
  I'm almost tempted to keep the Lyr in spite of the hum. It sounds great through the LCD2.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Definitely.  I have had certain amps (mostly solid state, actually) that buzz due to the dimmers in my kitchen.  Many others do not.  And all I have to do is turn the dimmers OFF


----------



## Skylab

Note that I was not suggesting to remove the dimmers - just to have them OFF when you are listening


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





fiver said:


> Absolutely.  Trying to troubleshoot/fix a household electrical hum problem can get pretty complicated sometimes.  I once had a motion detector that would actually cause the panel breaker to vibrate so hard you could hear it audibly humming from 10 feet away.  It's a little unnerving to walk to your main panel and have it sound like small motor is running inside it.  Traced that to a CFL being on the same circuit, pulled the CFL and the problem stopped.
> 
> For light dimmer interference, make sure you are only using high quality dimmers.  This is not the time to cheap out.  Make sure that there are no florescent fixtures on the circuit (seems obvious, but people do miss it).  Two dimmers on the same circuit can cause even more problems, if you for whatever reason need two again make sure they are high quality, preferably of the same model/manufacturer and intended for this purpose.
> 
> ...


 
  Many Head-Fi'ers are likely to have remote power control modules in their environment, such as X10 and newer light controllers.  These critters do the same damage to your power line that light dimmers do.  They're all triac or quadrac controlled PWM and put trash on the audio lines like nobody's business when they're used.  They're ok when turned off, as Sky mentioned.


----------



## grokit

Yeah illumination is overrated anyways


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yeah illumination is overrated anyways


 


  Thanks for shedding some light on that.


----------



## foaming at the ears

Duckman,
   
  Are you able to hear the hum with the LCD-2, or just your more sensitive HPs?
  
  Quote: 





duckman said:


> No noise with my old Leben or B22.
> 
> Too bad I can't do anything about dimmers. I'm renting.
> 
> I'm almost tempted to keep the Lyr in spite of the hum. It sounds great through the LCD2.


----------



## Kremer930

There is no hum with my HE6 or my AKG K702.  I tried a set of Ultimate Ears Triple Fi 10's just to see what they would do, and to confirm that the amp is usable with cans of all impedences given the worries of some head-fiers, and yes the amp does hum with my Genelex ECC88 tubes.  But it is still usable and the volume was easily controllable.  The hum was there regardless of the volume being at zero.  Once you started playing music with some volume the hum would disappear. 
   
  I also just have to say that the amp or tubes definitely needed some hours under its belt.  I have found that added air and space has come after around 10-15 hours of use.  My back to back comparisons with my DV337 is showing that the top end detail advantage of the DV is disappearing and that now I almost have a Darkvoice sound but with no restrictions on peaks and some serious bass control and slam.  Loving it more and more as time goes on.
   
  Cant wait for the Schiit Dacs.....  I only just held myself together for the 2 months pre-order of the Lyr.  Dont know how I will go waiting for a product that has only been hinted at so far....  I am confident that it will be worth it.
  
  Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> Duckman,
> 
> Are you able to hear the hum with the LCD-2, or just your more sensitive HPs?


----------



## Duckman

Yeah, it's clearly there with the LCD2. Not loud, but loud enough to hear in quiet passages of music.
  
  Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> Duckman,
> 
> Are you able to hear the hum with the LCD-2, or just your more sensitive HPs?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Yeah, it's clearly there with the LCD2. Not loud, but loud enough to hear in quiet passages of music.


 
  So you're saying that you hear hum with the stock tubes, even through the LCD-2's?


----------



## Fido2

I received my Lyr last night. Plugged her in and let her warm up. I listened with my LCD-2's. I haven't even tried my D-7000's yet. I haven't wanted to 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. This Lyr is a very fine sounding amp. It puts more meat on the bones and like someone above stated it is very muscular and confident but handles delicacies with great ease and fidelity. The Lyr really brought my LCD-2's to life and man what power! I can crank this thing up til my eyes pop out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. My LCD-2's sound much thicker and richer and I notice that the treble is more forward just enough now whereas it seemed a shade receded through the Woo and Mac preamp.
   The fit and finish on this amp is first rate. Very heavy and robust feeling amp, with high quality RCA connections and smooth accurate volume control. It's just a beautiful amp. 
  I hated to take off my headphones last night but I had to get to bed. More later after I try the Denon cans. So far...LOVE the Lyr! Great work Jason!


----------



## roachbro

Does anyone know how the Lyr handles with low impedance headphones like the D5000 with 25ohms?


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





roachbro said:


> Does anyone know how the Lyr handles with low impedance headphones like the D5000 with 25ohms?


 
   
  It's quoted at being able to handle impedances from 8 to 600.  It's power quote of 6w is into 32ohms, so I'd think 25 is no problem.


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


roachbro said:


> Does anyone know how the Lyr handles with low impedance headphones like the D5000 with 25ohms?


 

 According to their website, they're rated for headphone impedances from 8 to 600 Ohms, so it shouldn't be a problem.
   
  Also, at 25 Ohms you're looking at 8 watts RMS!


----------



## USAudio

*"Colorations" or "Wire with gain" ?*
   
  Would you say the Lyr introduces many of it's own "colorations" or is it close to the mythical "wire with gain" ?   
   
  Personally I prefer an amp to impart as little of it's own sonic signature as possible ... does the Lyr achieve this?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> *"Colorations" or "Wire with gain" ?*
> 
> Would you say the Lyr introduces many of it's own "colorations" or is it close to the mythical "wire with gain" ?
> 
> ...


 
  It depends upon what tubes you use.


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> It depends upon what tubes you use.


 
  Ok, how about with the stock tubes then?


----------



## Kremer930

usaudio said:


> Quote:
> Ok, how about with the stock tubes then?




Still a hard question to answer accurately as it is like suddenly hearing bass details as they should have been. This implies that any prior amp was colouring through omission. 

I didnt give the standard tubes enough time to properly settle in as I was chasing some extra mids and highs to balance the increased bottom end. But some others love the stock tubes. I will give them another try soon.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Quote:
> Ok, how about with the stock tubes then?


 

 Jason says it's designed to be neutral.  I believe him.  When mine arrives, that's what I expect to hear.  I do have hopes of being able to find tubes that sound even better than stock, but that will come after letting it burn in.


----------



## Kremer930

Just had a listen with tue stock tubes and they do sound great. So much bass information. IMO the Genelex tubes improve this slightly but giving more mid details. It is still hard to come to grips that this is only a $450 amp. Even when I was pulling the tubes out I had everything unplugged and looked at the build quality on the Lyr. It is really good. The screws, the curved panel, the funky venting design and the overall feeling of solidness is impressive. We are lucky to have this kind of product available to help people get into high end headphone music at reasonable costs.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Just had a listen with tue stock tubes and they do sound great. So much bass information. IMO the Genelex tubes improve this slightly but giving more mid details. It is still hard to come to grips that this is only a $450 amp. Even when I was pulling the tubes out I had everything unplugged and looked at the build quality on the Lyr. It is really good. The screws, the curved panel, the funky venting design and the overall feeling of solidness is impressive. We are lucky to have this kind of product available to help people get into high end headphone music at reasonable costs.


 
   
  The 6922 Genalex Gold Lions are very good tubes IMO and I use them on my WA2.


----------



## sferic

Yep, low impedence phones sound great. On the wait list for LCD2's. For now, my nightly listen is thru D5000's, Jmoney earpads with fabric cut out, and it's incredible. 
   
  On dimmers, I learned a LONG time ago, if you don't spend at least $30 bucks for a high quality dimmer you are asking for problems with everything - TV, Audio, etc. I'd bet cheap dimmers cause brain cancer. $5 rotary dimmers are the bane of the electronic world. Avoid them like the plague.


----------



## Duckman

Yes.
   
  But I want to make it clear that I'm not bagging the amp in any way. It sounds terrific, apart from the hum.
   
  I'm hoping to try it out at a friend's place today to see if the same thing happens in his setup.
   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> So you're saying that you hear hum with the stock tubes, even through the LCD-2's?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





duckman said:


> Yes.


 


  Sounds like you have a defective unit, unless the hum is coming from your source or a ground loop.


----------



## Duckman

I tried a cheater cable. No difference.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I tried a cheater cable. No difference.


 
  That's not conclusive.  Do you hear the hum with any other amp with the rest of the setup remaining the same?


----------



## sferic

Should be no hum unless you are compressing the earcups to your head with no input at ear-splitting levels. I live in San Francisco in a house with a 60 year old electric infrastructure and I've been able to eliminate ground loop every single (frequent) time it's come up. You might have a bad tube - big clue is if it's only left or right channel.
   
  Possible causes: cheap dimmers, cheap flourescent fixtures, bad or no ground, defective unit. In that order.


----------



## USAudio

*Channel matching?*
   
  Tell us about the channel matching with the Lyr.  Do you find it always well balanced or are there times when you feel one channel is louder than the other?
  I seem to be very sensitive to unbalanced channels and that's one thing that concerns me with the Lyr's Alps RK27.
  My Lavry DA11, with it's digitally controlled analog volume control, has excellent channel matching.


----------



## Duckman

Yeah I know. That's why I'm sending it to Jason for testing.
   
  I had some hum with the Burson, which was corrected by a cheater plug.
   
  I also had some hum with the Apex Peak/Volcano, but that was a defective unit, I believe.
   
  Leben and B22 were extremely quiet. Same with the Stax amps I've had here in the past.
   
  All my setups have been with the same DAC and iMac as source.
   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> That's not conclusive.  Do you hear the hum with any other amp with the rest of the setup remaining the same?


----------



## foaming at the ears

My hum is fixed!
   
  I had my schiit connected to the same surge protector as my computer.  As soon as I plugged the Lyr into a its own jack, the hum disappeared, and it is virtually silent (on SR225 and SRH840, both sensitive headphones).
   
  However, I identified one of my JJ tubes is slightly microphonic. First my left channel was emitting a very slight static, and then I swapped the tubes and the static transferred to the right channel.  I guess this only means I must embark on the dangerous path of tube rolling.
   
  Thanks again, Jason!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> My hum is fixed!
> 
> I had my schiit connected to the same surge protector as my computer.  As soon as I plugged the Lyr into a its own jack, the hum disappeared, and it is silent (on SR225 and SRH840, both sensitive headphones).
> 
> ...


 
  Congrats on getting the hum issue resolved!


----------



## InnerSpace

Quote: 





foaming at the ears said:


> However, I identified one of my JJ tubes is slightly microphonic. First my left channel was emitting a very slight static, and then I swapped the tubes and the static transferred to the right channel.


 
  I'm glad you fixed the hum.  But static isn't the same as microphonic.  Static could be residual gases or impurities being burned off, and might disappear soon.  Microphonic means if you tap your fingernail on the chassis you hear weird spacey sounds, like it was 1972 all over again.


----------



## Fido2

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> *"Colorations" or "Wire with gain" ?*
> 
> Would you say the Lyr introduces many of it's own "colorations" or is it close to the mythical "wire with gain" ?
> 
> ...


 


  I assume that you're asking anyone so I'll give it a shot. I notice no coloration. It is indeed a very neutral sounding amp. Just enough bass weight and slam and great clean mids and highs. The Lyr/LCD-2 combo will show you the differences in recording quality quite easily. I am still using the stock tubes and the amp is still has only a few hours run time on it. I'm really enjoying this amp and headphone combo. I still have not tried my Denon's yet...lol...I'm gonna try em now.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





fido2 said:


> I assume that you're asking anyone so I'll give it a shot. I notice no coloration. It is indeed a very neutral sounding amp. Just enough bass weight and slam and great clean mids and highs. The Lyr/LCD-2 combo will show you the differences in recording quality quite easily. I am still using the stock tubes and the amp is still has only a few hours run time on it. I'm really enjoying this amp and headphone combo. I still have not tried my Denon's yet...lol...I'm gonna try em now.


 
  Thanks Fido2!  That's what I was hoping to hear.
   
  I also asked in another post about channel matching.  Have you found the volume to be very balanced at various volume levels or does there appear to be some occasional channel imbalance, particularly at lower volumes?
   
  I seem to be particularly sensitive to imbalanced channel volumes but not with my Lavry DA11, it's volume control circuitry is excellent:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/410565/the-lavry-da11-for-your-ears-only/15#post_5483146


----------



## Fido2

No I haven't noticed any channel imbalance at low volumes. 
  Well the Lyr makes my D-7000's sing too
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will say this after listening to female vocals, orchestral, jazz and rock on both the LCD-2 and D-7000....The D-7000 is the best for rock/electronic etc and the LCD-2 for most everything else. The Denon's got a little sloppy during complex and powerful orchestral passages, whereas the LCD-2's held together quite well. The Denon's can seem a very slight bit more hi-fi or tinny with jazz and vocals but only upon direct A/B comparison. I could happily live with either if I had to choose only one.  But wow this Lyr is a great lil amp for both phones and it really slams the bass in the Denons and brings up the mids a bit too!
   
  You rock fans, if you have White Zombie's La Sexorcisto...play track 6 Cosmic Monsters Inc on the Lyr/LCD-2 combo or Lyr/D-7000 and you will see what awesomeness is
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !!


----------



## leesure

Thanks Fido2. That's what I've been hoping to hear. I have LCD-2's and even my Woo 6SE feels like it's coming up short on dynamics. If the Lyr is as good with the LCD-2 as you say, it's my next purchase. 

Any other impressions post burn in? Anyone?


----------



## leesure

Placed my order!  Can't wait.


----------



## Fido2

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Placed my order!  Can't wait.


 


  Sweet! You won't be disappointed.


----------



## kwkarth

I can hardly wait either!!!!


----------



## MacedonianHero

^^ Me too...just ordered the HE-6s and I am excited to hear the Lyr (arrive hopefully late next week) and my LCD-2s and HE-6s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 On another note....I hate this place.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> ^^ Me too...just ordered the HE-6s and I am excited to hear the Lyr (arrive hopefully late next week) and my LCD-2s and HE-6s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  are you trying to collect the great headphone collection ever? lol lucky man peter!


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> are you trying to collect the great headphone collection ever? lol lucky man peter!


 

 I have been very intrigued by these cans and many ears that I trust (Rob, Ross, Frank) swear by them, so when I found the open box sale on Headroom, I pounced.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I have been very intrigued by these cans and many ears that I trust (Rob, Ross, Frank) swear by them, so when I found the open box sale on Headroom, I pounced.


 


  nice! wish i had an amp that could drive them.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> nice! wish i had an amp that could drive them.


 


  There a Decware Mini Torri on audiogon for 1100.00 with pigtail from HiFlight your in business


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I have been very intrigued by these cans and many ears that I trust (Rob, Ross, Frank) swear by them, so when I found the open box sale on Headroom, I pounced.


 

 Heh...I think those were probably the ones I had bought a couple weeks ago and returned.  Great headphones, the HE-6, but they weren't quite what I was hoping they'd be.  Sounded great from the Lyr.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Good on a few notes...first you liked them and second, I'm sure you took very good care of them too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I got the itch...and realized that my RS1/MAD amp combo was used very sparingly....so I thought I'd give them a try too.
   


  Quote: 





sophonax said:


> Heh...I think those were probably the ones I had bought a couple weeks ago and returned.  Great headphones, the HE-6, but they weren't quite what I was hoping they'd be.  Sounded great from the Lyr.


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





frank i said:


> There a Decware Mini Torri on audiogon for 1100.00 with pigtail from HiFlight your in business


 

 haha i wish i had 1100 right now! i have too much money tied up.


----------



## wakeride74

I know right? Everything I end up interested in pops up in his sig... time to start cloning the list!
   
  Peter - Do post impressions, very interested in what you are hearing synergy-wise between the Concerto and Lyr with LCD-2.
  
  Quote: 





debitsohn said:


> are you trying to collect the great headphone collection ever? lol lucky man peter!


 

  
  Always nice to see another zombie fan. I've been rocking the Hellbilly Delux 2 album in regular rotation lately. "cannibal man and a jungle woman say uh huh uh huh"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Prior to selling them I did prefer my re-cabled D5000 for this type of music over the LCD-2, hopefully I can pick up a pair of D7000 in the next couple months.


  Quote: 





fido2 said:


> No I haven't noticed any channel imbalance at low volumes.
> Well the Lyr makes my D-7000's sing too
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## leesure

macedonianhero said:


> ^^ Me too...just ordered the HE-6s and I am excited to hear the Lyr (arrive hopefully late next week) and my LCD-2s and HE-6s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Curious...When you get it can you compare the sound of your LCD-2's when played through the WA2 vs. The Lyr?

I have a WA6-SE which I know is a bit brighter and less 'tubey' than the WA2, but Jack convinced me that I needed the 2 watts the 6SE delivers. I'm *hoping* the Lyr will give me some of the warmth of the WA2 with the power of the WA6-SE. 

that's not asking tooooooooo much, is it? :rolleyes:


----------



## MacedonianHero

We shall see....but that will take at least a week for the Lyr to arrive. I mainly bought it for the HE-6s, but the LCD-2s is certainly an added bonus.
   
  I plan to post my findings of both in a few weeks.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Can't you roll tubes in the WA6-SE to bring more "warmth" to the table?


----------



## leesure

kwkarth said:


> Can't you roll tubes in the WA6-SE to bring more "warmth" to the table?




I'm rolling a bit this past week. The RCA 6DE7 is better that the Sylvania 6EW7 that were included, but still not exactly lush. I have another pair of DE's to try. 

The big difference is that the 6SE is transformer coupled, making it the better choice for low impedance cans but also costing it some of the WA2's OTL warmth.


----------



## Fido2

Quote: 





wakeride74 said:


> Always nice to see another zombie fan. I've been rocking the Hellbilly Delux 2 album in regular rotation lately. "cannibal man and a jungle woman say uh huh uh huh"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes! Love the Zombie. La Sexorcisto is just a very well recorded rock album. The bass and dynamics are incredible on this album. It really slams through Lyr!


----------



## Rope

My Schiit shipped today!!!


----------



## Misterrogers

Me too! I know a bunch of us will have fun next week


----------



## llama_egg

I haven't gotten a shipping notice, but it _looks_ like I've been charged (either that or I'm not remembering my bank balance correctly). So hopefully it's being shipped today!


----------



## sferic

Loving it more everyday. This machine is something special.


----------



## pseudohippy

Gotta say Im having fun with my Lyr and have not even the tiniest bit of regret. I just got some K-1000 in the mail today but no adapter cable yet so sadly I cant check how the little Lyr drives them but Ill know soon enough. This thing has driven everything Ive thrown at it so far but these K-1000 should give it a run for its money, here's to hoping it works out.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Gotta say Im having fun with my Lyr and have not even the tiniest bit of regret. I just got some K-1000 in the mail today but no adapter cable yet so sadly I cant check how the little Lyr drives them but Ill know soon enough. This thing has driven everything Ive thrown at it so far but these K-1000 should give it a run for its money, here's to hoping it works out.


 

 At this juncture, I can't say from personal experience, although with an adaptive out put stage (8 - 600 Ohm), plus 6 watts RMS, it should drive cattle and herd cats, not to mention the K-1000's.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Gotta say Im having fun with my Lyr and have not even the tiniest bit of regret. I just got some K-1000 in the mail today but no adapter cable yet so sadly I cant check how the little Lyr drives them but Ill know soon enough. This thing has driven everything Ive thrown at it so far but these K-1000 should give it a run for its money, here's to hoping it works out.


 

 Can't wait to hear your impressions. Funny about those K1000 adapter cables, I got the 1/4 and 1/8 versions but not the speaker amp extension, did you get that one?
   
  Anyways my Lyr is supposed to ship next week but I just got my tubes in:
   

   
  Pretty!


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Can't wait to hear your impressions. Funny about those K1000 adapter cables, I got the 1/4 and 1/8 versions but not the speaker amp extension, did you get that one?
> 
> Anyways my Lyr is supposed to ship next week but I just got my tubes in:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yum ... E88CC Amp's? You will not be disappointed!


----------



## llama_egg

Just received my shipping notice, should arrive next week (hopefully _early_ next week) and absolutely pumped to get it in!


----------



## Skylab

Wow Grokit, you went right to the top of the food chain of tubes for your Lyr!  Nice. Pinched-waist Amperex.  Sweet.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Can't wait to hear your impressions. Funny about those K1000 adapter cables, I got the 1/4 and 1/8 versions but not the speaker amp extension, did you get that one?


 
   
  Are you talking about the speaker tap cable. Here are a couple pics of what I got.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





tunarat said:


> Yum ... E88CC Amp's? You will not be disappointed!


 
   
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Wow Grokit, you went right to the top of the food chain of tubes for your Lyr!  Nice. Pinched-waist Amperex.  Sweet.


 
   

 After reading about the difficulty in extracting/rolling tubes in the Lyr my plan became exactly that, unless there's an issue of some sort the stock tubes won't even get lit up and I will be done upon initial assembly. I was trying to hold out for the newer chamfered version and decided that I didn't want to wait after all, good thing because it probably won't happen anyways.
   
  Here's a shot of the other side:


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Are you talking about the speaker tap cable. Here are a couple pics of what I got.






 Nice specimen! Looks like you got the stock and a nice aftermarket speaker extension cable, as well as the headphones themselves having been re-cabled in quality fashion. Between the two of us we have a complete stock adapter cable set lol.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Nice specimen! Looks like you got the stock and a nice aftermarket speaker extension cable, as well as the headphones themselves having been re-cabled in quality fashion. Between the two of us we have a complete stock adapter cable set lol.


 
   
  Ya, well you got the part I need


----------



## macbob713

Just recieved my Lyr this morning. I've been playing music on it for about 6 hours. Just slipped them on a few minutes ago. WOW. I plugged in my AKG Q701's, and I was really surprised how much better the Lyr sounds than my Burson HA-160. I thought the Burson was supposed to be the ideal amp for the AKG, but there is simply no comparison. As great as the Burson and the Q701 sounded paired, the Lyr takes the AKG to the stratosphere. The sound is very dynamic, with better drive and better defined bass. The mids and treble are perfect, with fantastic detail on strings, guitars, vocals, and drums and highhats. I tried the new recording by Helene Grimaud, Resonances, and the solo piano sounded more realistic, with better body and more dynamics. George Benson's latest, Songs and Stories, is a modern Jazz/soul masterpiece. With the Q701 and the Lyr, this CD really pops. You can really hear into the music, but with better bass than I had with the Burson. In a direct head to head matchup, the Burson sounds slightly veiled. The soundstage is better with the Schiit between your ears. Vocals are better, transparency and layering are superb and bring out the best in the Q701.
  If you love the AKG 701/02, this is the perfect amp headphone combo. The Q701 just makes it just a little better.
  I have previously purchased the Schiit Asgard and paired it with the AKG 702. I moved up to the Vahalla, and then thought I had reached the top with the Burson. I had no intentions of buying another amp, but after reading Jason Stoddard's comments about the 701 and the Lyr, I had to try the Lyr. Man I'm glad I did. Now I need to sell my other 3 amps. Anyone interested, make an offer. I have the original packaging, and all 3 are in mint condition.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





macbob713 said:


> Just recieved my Lyr this morning. I've been playing music on it for about 6 hours. Just slipped them on a few minutes ago. WOW. I plugged in my AKG Q701's, and I was really surprised how much better the Lyr sounds than my Burson HA-160. I thought the Burson was supposed to be the ideal amp for the AKG, but there is simply no comparison. As great as the Burson and the Q701 sounded paired, the Lyr takes the AKG to the stratosphere. The sound is very dynamic, with better drive and better defined bass. The mids and treble are perfect, with fantastic detail on strings, guitars, vocals, and drums and highhats. I tried the new recording by Helene Grimaud, Resonances, and the solo piano sounded more realistic, with better body and more dynamics. George Benson's latest, Songs and Stories, is a modern Jazz/soul masterpiece. With the Q701 and the Lyr, this CD really pops. You can really hear into the music, but with better bass than I had with the Burson. In a direct head to head matchup, the Burson sounds slightly veiled. The soundstage is better with the Schiit between your ears. Vocals are better, transparency and layering are superb and bring out the best in the Q701.
> If you love the AKG 701/02, this is the perfect amp headphone combo. The Q701 just makes it just a little better.
> I have previously purchased the Schiit Asgard and paired it with the AKG 702. I moved up to the Vahalla, and then thought I had reached the top with the Burson. I had no intentions of buying another amp, but after reading Jason Stoddard's comments about the 701 and the Lyr, I had to try the Lyr. Man I'm glad I did. Now I need to sell my other 3 amps. Anyone interested, make an offer. I have the original packaging, and all 3 are in mint condition.


 
  Wow, I didn't expect the Lyr to surpass the Burson HA-160 in transparency but that's good news!  Looking forward to hearing it with my LCD-2's.


----------



## sphinxvc

Heard the Lyr today with LCD2s, that pairing was pretty good, the power is evident.  On the other hand I tried the Lyr with my HD650s + K701s and I was not impressed, I've heard better of both cans.


----------



## Kremer930

I agree with Macbob. The Lyr and K702's sound awesome together. Which amps do you think sound better with the K702's Spinxvc? Thanks.


----------



## VALIENTE

Quote: 





macbob713 said:


> WOW. I plugged in my AKG Q701's, and I was really surprised how much better the Lyr sounds than my Burson HA-160. I thought the Burson was supposed to be the ideal amp for the AKG, but there is simply no comparison. As great as the Burson and the Q701 sounded paired, the Lyr takes the AKG to the stratosphere.
> 
> If you love the AKG 701/02, this is the perfect amp headphone combo. The Q701 just makes it just a little better.
> I have previously purchased the Schiit Asgard and paired it with the AKG 702. I moved up to the Vahalla, and then thought I had reached the top with the Burson. I had no intentions of buying another amp, but after reading Jason Stoddard's comments about the 701 and the Lyr, I had to try the Lyr. Man I'm glad I did.


 


  Wow this is a good news for K701 users like me...


----------



## chesebert

Classic honeymoon reaction. It's just too soon for any meaningful comparison at this time. If I were you, I would take the Lyra >>> xyz reviews with a giant block of salt.
  
  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Wow, I didn't expect the Lyr to surpass the Burson HA-160 in transparency but that's good news!  Looking forward to hearing it with my LCD-2's.


 

  
   


  Quote: 





macbob713 said:


> Just recieved my Lyr this morning. I've been playing music on it for about 6 hours. Just slipped them on a few minutes ago. WOW. I plugged in my AKG Q701's, and I was really surprised how much better the Lyr sounds than my Burson HA-160. I thought the Burson was supposed to be the ideal amp for the AKG, but there is simply no comparison. As great as the Burson and the Q701 sounded paired, the Lyr takes the AKG to the stratosphere. The sound is very dynamic, with better drive and better defined bass. The mids and treble are perfect, with fantastic detail on strings, guitars, vocals, and drums and highhats. I tried the new recording by Helene Grimaud, Resonances, and the solo piano sounded more realistic, with better body and more dynamics. George Benson's latest, Songs and Stories, is a modern Jazz/soul masterpiece. With the Q701 and the Lyr, this CD really pops. You can really hear into the music, but with better bass than I had with the Burson. In a direct head to head matchup, the Burson sounds slightly veiled. The soundstage is better with the Schiit between your ears. Vocals are better, transparency and layering are superb and bring out the best in the Q701.
> If you love the AKG 701/02, this is the perfect amp headphone combo. The Q701 just makes it just a little better.
> I have previously purchased the Schiit Asgard and paired it with the AKG 702. I moved up to the Vahalla, and then thought I had reached the top with the Burson. I had no intentions of buying another amp, but after reading Jason Stoddard's comments about the 701 and the Lyr, I had to try the Lyr. Man I'm glad I did. Now I need to sell my other 3 amps. Anyone interested, make an offer. I have the original packaging, and all 3 are in mint condition.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


kremer930 said:


> I agree with Macbob. The Lyr and K702's sound awesome together. Which amps do you think sound better with the K702's Spinxvc? Thanks.


 

 The best I've heard of the K701s is from the WA22, but with an amp that refined I would probably go ahead and plunk down the funds for a pair of HD800s or better.  I also liked the WA6 SE but I confess I didn't have much demo time with these, I didn't have any time to try it out with any kind of rock.  Unlike many on head-fi, I find the K701s bass adequate about 95% of the time.  My main gripe with them is the slight thinness to the vocals.  The WA6SE solved that problem, period.  The synergy that the WA6SE + K701s is haunting.  Gone is the primarily horizontal soundstage the K701s are accused of having, the WA6SE put a bubble of sound around my head.  The WA22 solved that problem too but without sounding syrupy at all, it managed to solve the problem while remaining very detailed, but as I said, if I buy a WA22, I'd also buy an HD800 or better.  
   
  Anyhow, I'm not saying the Lyr is bad with the K701s, it was okay, but it doesn't approach magic synergy.


----------



## macbob713

Sorry, this is no honeymoon reaction. I have been listening to high end audio, in a variety of formats, for decades. I know what sounds good to me, i can easily identify the strength's and weaknesses of any component in my system, from speakers to amps to phones. I have been listening daily to the Burson/AKG combo for months. I know it well. The Schiit is brand new, but not unlike the Asgard and Vahalla which I have also used extensively. The Lyr is as I described in my earlier post. I expect it to get better as the tubes and electronics settle in. If I was unsure of my take on it, I would have definitely kept  the unit on probation, after all, Schiit has a 15 day moneyback guarantee , which I can assure you I would send back in a heartbeat if I was disappointed in the sound compared to the Burson. I will grant you that I have only played about a dozen different CD's that I'm very familiar with, and each features certain aspects of sound reproduction that I listen for to determine if I truly like the the piece I'm listening to, as well as synergy with my overall system. The Lyr integrates perfectly with my equipment.
  So I have to say that I reject your dismissal of my expirence with the Lyr and the AKG Q701. I'm also sure you have not heard this combo sourced by a high end CD player. So any judgement of what I'm hearing vs what you have not heard is simply preposterous.


----------



## Kremer930

chesebert said:


> Classic honeymoon reaction. It's just too soon for any meaningful comparison at this time. If I were you, I would take the Lyra >>> xyz reviews with a giant block of salt.




It is a night and day improvement for the 702's when listening to the Lyr versus my Audio-gd fun or Dark voice 337. 

Take it with a grain of salt if you like but those people commenting on the performance of the Lyr are at least basing their comments on actual first hand experience and not just unfounded cynicism.


----------



## grokit

You guys could both be right, perhaps the Lyr is better than the Burson with certain cans but not as good as the WA6SE for a given listener. As far as I know the Burson is optimized for higher impedance cans like the Sennheisers.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





macbob713 said:


> The sound is very dynamic, with better drive and better defined bass. The mids and treble are perfect, with fantastic detail on strings, guitars, vocals, and drums and highhats. I tried the new recording by Helene Grimaud, Resonances, and the solo piano sounded more realistic, with better body and more dynamics. George Benson's latest, Songs and Stories, is a modern Jazz/soul masterpiece. With the Q701 and the Lyr, this CD really pops. You can really hear into the music, but with better bass than I had with the Burson. In a direct head to head matchup, the Burson sounds slightly veiled. The soundstage is better with the Schiit between your ears.


 
   
  Thanks for that comparison, I was wondering about the Burson comparison as it has gotten a lot of favorable comments.
   
  I just wanted to post some thoughts here about the Lyr, I'm not a reviewer, so take my comments as just that.
   
  All my listening has been done with the LCD-2's
   
  The Lyr out of the box really floored me for the price, as I posted before. I've never owned a hybrid, so take that into consideration. The dynamics of the Lyr are off the charts at this price point imo. Initially the thing was so enjoyable I just soaked in the music with a smile on my face. I did play with the tubes for a while until settling in with the amperex 7308 cep's. A word about that .. maybe it's the "hybrid" factor, but I was suprised the amperex bested the german tubes (which I'm partial to) in synergy. My guess is that a tube like the mullards would be money... in more ways than one, but I don't have those. The tube swapping is not as audibly evident to my ears as with a straight tube amp, but is easily recognized in any event. 
   
  Soundstage is very good, imaging as well. Where the Lyr kicks it though is dynamic stop and start passages in the music, really grabs you. Maybe this has something to do with that weird dynamic adaptive voodoo, I don't know. It seems to be more suited to rock and faster music in general, but by no means is that a criticism. It more than holds it's own with female vocals and acoustic strings that i so adore. I was not really a fan of the Asgard, although I certainly appreciated it for what it was, just too uninvolving for my taste. The Lyr however does pull in that detail which made the Asgard special, but is miles ahead musically. That said, detail retrieval is really good. Initially I thought it a bit lacking, but after a week or two that actually improved in it's realism. 
   
  The Lyr has a comfortable sense of air, more clean than moody, which I think will appeal to the solid state crowd but also us tubies to an extent,  that's saying a lot at this price point. I could use a little more tonality and bloom, but hey, that's just me and I wouldn't expect more at this price with all the other attributes it has to offer. I actually prefer it to the Woo WA6 and I'm really a SET lover. That may not be fair though, I've only heard the Woo at meets (we know how that goes) with no real in home use.
   
  In any event, at under $500 I'd rate it up there with Bo Derek....then, not now


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


macbob713 said:


> Sorry, this is no honeymoon reaction. I have been listening to high end audio, in a variety of formats, for decades. I know what sounds good to me, i can easily identify the strength's and weaknesses of any component in my system, from speakers to amps to phones. I have been listening daily to the Burson/AKG combo for months. I know it well. The Schiit is brand new, but not unlike the Asgard and Vahalla which I have also used extensively. The Lyr is as I described in my earlier post. I expect it to get better as the tubes and electronics settle in. If I was unsure of my take on it, I would have definitely kept  the unit on probation, after all, Schiit has a 15 day moneyback guarantee , which I can assure you I would send back in a heartbeat if I was disappointed in the sound compared to the Burson. I will grant you that I have only played about a dozen different CD's that I'm very familiar with, and each features certain aspects of sound reproduction that I listen for to determine if I truly like the the piece I'm listening to, as well as synergy with my overall system. The Lyr integrates perfectly with my equipment.
> So I have to say that I reject your dismissal of my expirence with the Lyr and the AKG Q701. I'm also sure you have not heard this combo sourced by a high end CD player. So any judgement of what I'm hearing vs what you have not heard is simply preposterous.


 

 Hey man, take it easy.  I didn't dismiss your experience at all.  I'm just sharing my own impressions, just as you were.  I can completely understand and accept that you're hearing something better than I am, after all, we all perceive sound differently.  In my very humble opinion, I liked the K701s better by quite a margin off of other amps.  As for my source, it was lossless fed to a Audio-GD dual-wolfson DAC.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


tunarat said:


> Thanks for that comparison, I was wondering about the Burson comparison as it has gotten a lot of favorable comments.
> 
> I just wanted to post some thoughts here about the Lyr, I'm not a reviewer, so take my comments as just that.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Agree with you 100%.  The Lyr is a steal for the LCD-2s, excellent synergy.  It doesn't get better by much.


----------



## matthewh133

Hopefully within the next 2 weeks I'll be doing a HA-160 vs Lyr comparison with the LCD-2. Look forward to it.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hey man, take it easy.  I didn't dismiss your experience at all.  I'm just sharing my own impressions, just as you were.  I can completely understand and accept that you're hearing something better than I am, after all, we all perceive sound differently.  In my very humble opinion, I liked the K701s better by quite a margin off of other amps.  As for my source, it was lossless fed to a Audio-GD dual-wolfson DAC.


 

 I think Macbob was answering to chesebert's post about dismissing his experience, not yours  
   
  Also, I ordered mine two days ago but I haven't gotten any notification as to when it will be shipped. Any info on that? Jason...? Anyone...? Bueller...?


----------



## Misterrogers

I don't think you'll be notified until it actually ships. Jason and crew are very responsive to email, so I'd suggest you fire one his way to find out what your ship 'window' is likely to be. In my conversations with him, they seem to be on top of components and building.
   
  Mike


----------



## dpump

As a slight aside, is there any difference in the AKG Q702 and the 702 other than the new colors? I can say from experience that the 702s are the strangest phones I have ever had from a breakin standpoint. As many have said, they need 150 to 200 hours to sound their best. Also, if you are listening with the original cable that comes with the 702, you aren't hearing their true potential.
   
  I'm waiting for a B-stock or used Lyrr to be available. If anyone decides they want to sell theirs, please send me a PM.


----------



## JIGF

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Hopefully within the next 2 weeks I'll be doing a HA-160 vs Lyr comparison with the LCD-2. Look forward to it.


 

 I look forward to it.


----------



## bcg27

Quote: 





dpump said:


> As a slight aside, is there any difference in the AKG Q702 and the 702 other than the new colors? I can say from experience that the 702s are the strangest phones I have ever had from a breakin standpoint. As many have said, they need 150 to 200 hours to sound their best. Also, if you are listening with the original cable that comes with the 702, you aren't hearing their true potential.
> 
> I'm waiting for a B-stock or used Lyrr to be available. If anyone decides they want to sell theirs, please send me a PM.


 


  I think I saw a Lyr in the amp for sale section, unless it sold already.


----------



## leesure

I think the one in the FS forum was in the UK


----------



## leesure

BTW...is it pronounced "Leer" or Liar"?


----------



## grokit

Lir 
  
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> BTW...is it pronounced "Leer" or Liar"?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Lir


 
  As in Learjet or fishlure?  Maybe it's lyr as in lyric.


----------



## grokit

Lyr as in liric lol
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> As in Learjet or fishlure?  Maybe it's lyr as in lyric.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Lyr as in liric lol


 
  Maybe it's Lyr as in Lyre?  [līr]


----------



## leesure

Ok...clear as mud.

Thanks!


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote:


matthewh133 said:


> Hopefully within the next 2 weeks I'll be doing a HA-160 vs Lyr comparison with the LCD-2. Look forward to it.


 
  Le us (me) know when you post this! I'd love to read it.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> ...As far as I know the *Burson *is optimized for higher impedance cans like the Sennheisers.


 

 Then why does it perform so poorly with the 600 ohm T1s?


----------



## grokit

Dunno, just that they were testing it with an HD650 during the design phase.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Dunno, just that they were testing it with an HD650 during the design phase.


 


  I guess they stopped at the 300 ohms then.


----------



## Misterrogers

Word has it, that Mike Moffat and Jason both enjoy the DT 990/600 ohm. It's been mentioned as one of the cans used in tuning the sound signature of the Lyr.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Word has it, that Mike Moffat and Jason both enjoy the DT 990/600 ohm. It's been mentioned as one of the cans used in tuning the sound signature of the Lyr.


 

 Since the Lyr is capable of 40v p/p, it should do a bang up job with 600 ohm cans.  That would be about 1.3 WRMS into 600 ohms.  Ought to make the T1 sing like a canary.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Since the Lyr is capable of 40v p/p, it should do a bang up job with 600 ohm cans.  That would be about 1.3 WRMS at 600 ohms.  *Ought to make the T1 sing like a canary.*


 





   
  From a T1 owners perspective and with a Lyr shipping out next week, this did put a smile on my face. Thanks Kevin...can't wait to give it a try. Although I did pick up the Lyr for my orthos...this is an added bonus.


----------



## sperandeo

Has the "hard to get out" tubes been fixed on the Lyr's now shipping?
   
  I read that the next production of Lyr's would be much easier to pull the tubes.


----------



## Misterrogers

Not yet. Asked Jason this question a couple of days ago.


----------



## grokit

From what he told me a few days ago, it's not looking good.


----------



## Duckman

I complained about the hard to get out tube situation, but when I went to pull out the tubes a second time, it was far easier. Not sure why. Rocked them back and forth a bit, and they came out.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Word has it, that Mike Moffat and Jason both enjoy the DT 990/600 ohm. It's been mentioned as one of the cans used in tuning the sound signature of the Lyr.


 
   
  I can see that. I think it was mentioned before by someone that the Lyr was on the bright side. I would concur with that (for a tube amp). Once those nasty trebles break in with those cans I could understand the synergy with the Lyr, guessing the bass would be the bomb ....wish I hadn't sold those now.


----------



## sperandeo

I'm ready to order a Lyr for my L's, but I think I would rather wait until they correct this "hard to pull" tube issue. If the next production run is only a few weeks away, I can wait.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Has the "hard to get out" tubes been fixed on the Lyr's now shipping?
> 
> I read that the next production of Lyr's would be much easier to pull the tubes.


 


   


  Quote: 





grokit said:


> From what he told me a few days ago, it's not looking good.


 
   
  I may have been the culprit of this insignificant detail    Quote:
   
  " were rapidly remedied by a quick (and pain in the ass .. duct tape to the rescue again) tube swap"
   
  It was more of a tongue in cheek comment.
   
  It's not an issue folks, hell, it makes it more fun to me!
   
  Hopefully the guys will ignore the issue and focus on the music, which is really what we want


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





duckman said:


> I complained about the hard to get out tube situation, but when I went to pull out the tubes a second time, it was far easier. Not sure why. Rocked them back and forth a bit, and they came out.


 
  Use Caig GL-100 Pro Gold contact enhancer on the pins.  It will make the tubes easier to insert and remove along with improving the sound.


----------



## tunarat

kwkarth said:


> Use Caig GL-100 Pro Gold contact enhancer on the pins.  It will make the tubes easier to insert and remove along with improving the sound.


 
   A great product for sure!


----------



## foaming at the ears

Why not the Lyr and THEN the silver surfers? ^^


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Has the "hard to get out" tubes been fixed on the Lyr's now shipping?
> 
> I read that the next production of Lyr's would be much easier to pull the tubes.


 

 Use some blue painters tape to fashion something for you to pull on and gently rock.
   
  Take your time and they come right out with no fuss.


----------



## Misterrogers

My Lyr was delivered a couple of hours ago. I let it burn through lunch, just plugged in my DT 990/600's and cranked it up. Way too soon to say too much; but I will say that I'm very much enjoying the sound. This amp really makes these cans sing. Very dynamic, good staging, fast. More to follow.
   
  Mike


----------



## awyongcarl

UK/EU retail..when..? D:
  It sucks to be an oversea student here because I am not sure how to deal with taxes and stuffs..lol.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Use Caig GL-100 Pro Gold contact enhancer on the pins.  It will make the tubes easier to insert and remove along with improving the sound.


 

 Where can you find GL-100 Pro Gold?


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> My Lyr was delivered a couple of hours ago. I let it burn through lunch, just plugged in my DT 990/600's and cranked it up. Way too soon to say too much; but I will say that I'm very much enjoying the sound. This amp really makes these cans sing. Very dynamic, good staging, fast. More to follow.
> 
> Mike


 


  My Lyr arrived yesterday.  Still burning it in here as well.  Initial impressions are very positive - it has plenty of juice to drive my HE-6 phones.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





bmoura said:


> My Lyr arrived yesterday.  Still burning it in here as well.  Initial impressions are very positive - *it has plenty of juice to drive my HE-6 phones.*


 

 Glad to hear.


----------



## oldwine

Dear all,
   
  Love to know there is a powerful amp now. May i know do anyone using it to drive other phones like the K340, K501 (due to its difficulty to drive) and other 600 ohm phones like HD800, Beyer 880/600ohm, 990//600ohm. etc.


----------



## sillysally

Quote: 





bmoura said:


> Where can you find GL-100 Pro Gold?


 

 I think amazon. However you may just want to use a eraser on your tube pins. pro gold may cause a build up in your sockets. I do use pure gold on my HE-6's pin that connects the cap to the cable, buy that is because pure gold acts as a lubricant.


----------



## sperandeo

I just placed my order for a Lyr....I can't wait.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





bmoura said:


> Where can you find GL-100 Pro Gold?


 
  Fry's Electronics, 
  Parts Express: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=caig


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I think amazon. However you may just want to use a eraser on your tube pins. pro gold may cause a build up in your sockets. I do use pure gold on my HE-6's pin that connects the cap to the cable, buy that is because pure gold acts as a lubricant.


 
  Build up?  Is that a fact or is that an opinion?
  Thanks,


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Love to know there is a powerful amp now. May i know do anyone using it to drive other phones like the K340, K501 (due to its difficulty to drive) and other 600 ohm phones like HD800, Beyer 880/600ohm, 990//600ohm. etc.


 
  The HD800 is 300 ohms, not 600 ohms.  I think the 600 ohm Beyers are the only cans that are 600 ohms these days.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sillysally said:


> I think amazon. However you may just want to use a eraser on your tube pins. pro gold may cause a build up in your sockets. I do use pure gold on my HE-6's pin that connects the cap to the cable, buy that is because pure gold acts as a lubricant.


 
  Using an eraser is a good way to remove all gold or silver plating from a contact, including tube pins.  Bad stuff, just say no to erasers.  CAIG chemically removes all contamination and oxidation without abrasives or otherwise removing metal.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> The HD800 is 300 ohms, not 600 ohms.  I think the 600 ohm Beyers are the only cans that are 600 ohms these days.


 

=863&graphID[1]=&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&graphType=7&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones]For suitably large values of 300...
   
  Do they pick the lowest point on the curve or something?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> For suitably large values of 300...
> 
> Do they pick the lowest point on the curve or something?


 
  There is no agreed upon standard, so you'll see numbers range all over the place depending upon the manufacturer.  In the case of the HD800 that you chose, it does look like 300 ohm is about the low point.  In the case of an orthodynamic headphone, the impedance is almost purely resistive, a rating of 50 ohms is valid across the spectrum.


----------



## WilCox

Just to avoid any confusion for those trying to locate ProGold, it is now called DeoxIT Gold.  From the Caig website:
   
NOTE: _*(Name change in 2006 from ProGold to DeoxIT® GOLD, part numbers remain the same)*_
*To purchase, go to DeoxIT® GOLD Products.*
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Use Caig GL-100 Pro Gold contact enhancer on the pins.  It will make the tubes easier to insert and remove along with improving the sound.


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





oldwine said:


> Dear all,
> 
> Love to know there is a powerful amp now. May i know do anyone using it to drive other phones like the K340, K501 (due to its difficulty to drive) and other 600 ohm phones like HD800, Beyer 880/600ohm, 990//600ohm. etc.


 

  I've tried both the HD800 and DT880/600 from the Lyr, as well as from the Asgard and Valhalla.  The HD800 sounds quite good from the Lyr.  The Lyr gives the HD800 a much-needed bit of extra bass and dynamics, though the Asgard seems to be a bit cleaner and more detailed.  As for the DT880/600, I'd have to say they sound merely decent from the Lyr -- much better than the Asgard, but not as good as the Valhalla.  IMO, you just can't beat a good OTL tube amp for the 600-ohm Beyers.
   
  At this point, of the headphones I've tried, I think the HE-6 and K701 benefit most from the Lyr (as compared to the Asgard or Valhalla).


----------



## Misterrogers

I'm driving my 990/600's with Lyr, and find is full, detailed, musical and dynamic. Very pleased. I also have the Asgard which is certainly not a good match for these high impedance cans. I don't have the benefit of a Valhalla to compare with, but I can say that I'm very pleased with Lyr driving these cans.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sophonax said:


> I've tried both the HD800 and DT880/600 from the Lyr, as well as from the Asgard and Valhalla.  The HD800 sounds quite good from the Lyr.  The Lyr gives the HD800 a much-needed bit of extra bass and dynamics, though the Asgard seems to be a bit cleaner and more detailed.  As for the DT880/600, I'd have to say they sound merely decent from the Lyr -- much better than the Asgard, but not as good as the Valhalla.  IMO, you just can't beat a good OTL tube amp for the 600-ohm Beyers.
> 
> At this point, of the headphones I've tried, I think the HE-6 and K701 benefit most from the Lyr (as compared to the Asgard or Valhalla).


 
  Good post.


----------



## maverickronin

I've owned 600 ohm DT770s and DT990s and I didn't think they were hard to drive at all.  I'm guessing this is because they have relatively flat impedance curves like the=963&graphID[1]=853&graphID[2]=953&graphID[3]=&graphType=7&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones] 250 and 32 ohm versions.  Both the 770/600 and 990/600 sounded fine from my Bithead, but my HD650s with lower impedance and a nastier curve don't.  I listen pretty softly so most people will probably want an amp with a little more than a 5 or 6 volt power supply to get the volume they want, but the quality was just fine.
   
  The T1 may be a different story.  Its literally off the charts on Headroom's graphs but I've heard (though I've never actually seen a graph of it) that it peaks between 1100 and 1200 ohms.  Not sure if it true though.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Fry's Electronics,
> Parts Express: http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=caig


 

 Thanks !


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Using an eraser is a good way to remove all gold or silver plating from a contact, including tube pins.  Bad stuff, just say no to erasers.  CAIG chemically removes all contamination and oxidation without abrasives or otherwise removing metal.


 
   
  Guess I'm just an 'ol fart but i still use 0000 steel wool on old tubes before CAIG, ya never know where those little pricks have been


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





tunarat said:


> Guess I'm just an 'ol fart but i still use 0000 steel wool on old tubes before CAIG, ya never know where those little pricks have been


 
  Steel wool and even pencil erasers are fine on non plated tube pins, but CAIG is better.


----------



## ZorgDK

Just ordered the Lyr as my first amp. Should be good


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





tunarat said:


> Guess I'm just an 'ol fart but i still use 0000 steel wool on old tubes before CAIG, ya never know where those little pricks have been


 

 I do the same, Tunarat - steel wool first, THEN the CAIG


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I do the same, Tunarat - steel wool first, THEN the CAIG


 
  Depends on the tube.  Ya don't wanna be steel woolin a gold plated tube pin.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Depends on the tube.  Ya don't wanna be steel woolin a gold plated tube pin.


 

 Yeah, for sure, would never do that.  But since I have very few current-production tubes, and there were very new gold-plated tubes back in the day, although some of the nicer late 70's 6922's were, in fact.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just placed my order for the Lyr... now for an DAC to pair with it. @_@


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just placed my order for the Lyr... now for an amp to pair with it. @_@


 


  You mean Dac?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just placed my order for the Lyr... now for an amp to pair with it. @_@


 

 MHDT Havana


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jronan2 said:


> You mean Dac?




Yes, Mr. Smartypants. 

As for my DAC, my one restriction is that it must be sold through Amazon, have various inputs (not just USB), and do 24/96 through USB. I'm futureproofing, so even though I may not use 24/96 now, I may in the future.


----------



## blankdisc

check out Audio-GD NFB-3 (although it's not sold through Amazon). Just got it today. I immediately noticed sound improvement with my HE-4, which i think that you are considering as well. very very impressed by this DAC.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yea let me know what you decide on getting for a dac. I want to spend around $300-$400 and really only need usb/ optical inputs as only one of my macs will be used for it.  I'm still trying to figure out what to get because I want to put my e7/e9 next to my bed and get a new set up for my main computer rig. Maybe I'm weird but I do most of my listening laying down in bed, really want to put a set up on my night table ran through my macbook.


----------



## Gatsby

Anyone ordered theirs recently? I ordered on March 22. When do you think we can expect them in? I believe Jason said somewhere they'd start shipping again in late March right? Has that started yet?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Yea let me know what you decide on getting for a dac. I want to spend around $300-$400 and really only need usb/ optical inputs as only one of my macs will be used for it.  I'm still trying to figure out what to get because I want to put my e7/e9 next to my bed and get a new set up for my main computer rig. Maybe I'm weird but I do most of my listening laying down in bed, really want to put a set up on my night table ran through my macbook.


 

 That MSII+ didn't work out?


----------



## sferic

OMG my LCD-2's arrived. Listening to the Tron Legacy Soundtrack. The dynamics, power, resolution, detail. It's amazing. These 2 companies are amazing. I feel like I have a $10,000 audio system on my head (and I have spent way more than that on audio) for $1500. Great things happen. Relish the opportunity.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





grokit said:


> That MSII+ didn't work out?


 
  Lol the link you gave me didn't work out, he sold it to someone else. I figured i would since i had no feedback on there yet. I appreciate you trying to help me out. Still researching, and still trying to figure out whats best for me. But the more I research and think about it, the more confused I get lol. I'm not even sure now if the Lyr is even worth it to me for my set up. I know I want to buy Schiit lol because I like there personality, customer service, American brand, competively priced, etc. Just the phones I have now aren't really needed for the Lyr, and I don;t plan on getting LCD 2 or HE6's so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Yea let me know what you decide on getting for a dac. I want to spend around $300-$400 and really only need usb/ optical inputs as only one of my macs will be used for it.  I'm still trying to figure out what to get because I want to put my e7/e9 next to my bed and get a new set up for my main computer rig. Maybe I'm weird but I do most of my listening laying down in bed, really want to put a set up on my night table ran through my macbook.


 
   
   
  This little pop pulse puppy will give any 3 or 4 hundred dollar dac a run for it's money, I would think. 24/192 out of the optical and coax also. I like mine, a real bargain at $260
   
  http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4_115&products_id=319


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





tunarat said:


> This little pop pulse puppy will give any 3 or 4 hundred dollar dac a run for it's money, I would think. 24/192 out of the optical and coax also. I like mine, a real bargain at $260
> 
> http://www.aloaudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_4_115&products_id=319


 

 Thanks for the suggestion, another item to look up lol. Is there any reviews/ write ups on this. Can't seem to find much.


----------



## tunarat

Never saw a review myself, but those i know that have heard it thought it very good deal at this price point


----------



## Yuceka

This is not related to Lyr but since we're talking about DACs, what do you guys think about Stello DA-100?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> MHDT Havana


 

 x2!


----------



## jamato8

I see where the Craig treatment has been mentioned. There are some manufactures that have reported problems with buildup and I have experienced this. Having used tubes for many years I have tried different treatments and after cleaning pins and sockets or replacing the sockets, I just keep the pins clean. I have noticed that after the treatment it can sound good for a day or two and go down from there. I have found it doesn't work for very long and others have found this as well. Go over to Audio Asylum on Tube Asylum and do a search. 
   
  In the 90's there was Tweak. At first it was thought to be a great enhancement for conduction. I tried it on everything and regretted it big time. That stuff really messed up the connection as it solidified and became fairly hard and difficult to clean off and that was on RCA's that didn't even get warm.


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I see where the Craig treatment has been mentioned. There are some manufactures that have reported problems with buildup and I have experienced this. Having used tubes for many years I have tried different treatments and after cleaning pins and sockets or replacing the sockets, I just keep the pins clean. I have noticed that after the treatment it can sound good for a day or two and go down from there. I have found it doesn't work for very long and others have found this as well. Go over to Audio Asylum on Tube Asylum and do a search.
> 
> In the 90's there was Tweak. At first it was thought to be a great enhancement for conduction. I tried it on everything and regretted it big time. That stuff really messed up the connection as it solidified and became fairly hard and difficult to clean off and that was on RCA's that didn't even get warm.


 
  Victor from balanced Audio technology advises against any  use of Craig on any tube gear as it will cause problems in the future and John you are correct there are many other manufactures who have advised against any of that except pencil eraser and steel wool to clean pins. I have never used it on my tube gear.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I've owned 600 ohm DT770s and DT990s and I didn't think they were hard to drive at all.  I'm guessing this is because they have relatively flat impedance curves like the=963&graphID[1]=853&graphID[2]=953&graphID[3]=&graphType=7&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones] 250 and 32 ohm versions.  Both the 770/600 and 990/600 sounded fine from my Bithead, but my HD650s with lower impedance and a nastier curve don't.  I listen pretty softly so most people will probably want an amp with a little more than a 5 or 6 volt power supply to get the volume they want, but the quality was just fine.
> 
> The T1 may be a different story.  Its literally off the charts on Headroom's graphs but I've heard (though I've never actually seen a graph of it) that it peaks between 1100 and 1200 ohms.  Not sure if it true though.


 
  Thank Tyll for measurements!  The T1 (currently page 17) peaks at over 1400 ohms(OMGWTFBBQ) while the 880/600 (P16) peaks at less than 750.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





frank i said:


> Victor from balanced Audio technology advises against any  use of Craig on any tube gear as it will cause problems in the future and John you are correct there are many other manufactures who have advised against any of that except pencil eraser and steel wool to clean pins. I have never used it on my tube gear.


 
  I've never had problems with Caig products.


----------



## Skylab

I haven't either, bit I bet a lot of people don't follow the directions, which clearly say to wipe off any excess after applying, and that is what leads to a build up.


----------



## MacedonianHero

So good news...my Lyr shipped out today (thanks Jason for the quick shipping). I paid for Express shipping to Canada, so hopefully latter part of next week it'll arrive and I can hear my HE-6s (and LCD-2s for that matter) with this powerful amp.

FWIW, last night, I did plug my HE-6s into my 5.1 home theater Pioneer Elite receiver (thanks Rob for the suggestion) and I finally got a good appreciation for what the Hifiman headphones can really do. All I can say is wow....they are great world class cans and wow...they need a LOT of power. :eek:

I usually run my 8 ohm Energy speakers (with 6.5" woofers) at about -25dB for television and -15dB for Blu Ray movies....but I needed +6dB with the HE-6s to really get them going. And when they did...wow. Now if the Lyr can do that in that small package (my receiver is quite large), kudos to Schiit Audio (and based on Jude's review....looks like I will be quite satisfied with it).


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





skylab said:


> I haven't either, bit I bet a lot of people don't follow the directions, which clearly say to wipe off any excess after applying, and that is what leads to a build up.


 

 You get an A+ Rob!!!


----------



## MrScary

I really need to spend the bucks for this amp get some new phones retire the HD650's


----------



## WNBC

Ordered 3/12 and received today 3/26.  Sounded like they ramped up last week and making ground on post pre-orders.
   
   
  Quote: 





gatsby said:


> Anyone ordered theirs recently? I ordered on March 22. When do you think we can expect them in? I believe Jason said somewhere they'd start shipping again in late March right? Has that started yet?


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So good news...my Lyr shipped out today (thanks Jason for the quick shipping). I paid for Express shipping to Canada, so hopefully latter part of next week it'll arrive and I can hear my HE-6s (and LCD-2s for that matter) with this powerful amp.
> 
> FWIW, last night, I did plug my HE-6s into my 5.1 home theater Pioneer Elite receiver (thanks Rob for the suggestion) and I finally got a good appreciation for what the Hifiman headphones can really do. All I can say is wow....they are great world class cans and wow...they need a LOT of power.
> 
> ...


 
   
  You'll enjoy the Lyr with the HE-6. It really lets the HE-6 phones sing !


----------



## MacedonianHero

bmoura said:


> You'll enjoy the Lyr with the HE-6. It really lets the HE-6 phones sing !




Can't wait to give it a try.  The USPS website shows that it just left the US this afternoon...so hopefully mid-late next week here in The Great White North. Having heard the HE-6s powered with the juice that they need, I am really hooked and need a smaller amp to fit in my rig (my home theater receiver is kinda used in my home theater....and it's H-U-G-E).


----------



## MrScary

sounds like a good combo I think Im going to pull the plug soon


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> sounds like a good combo I think Im going to pull the plug soon


 
  Pull the plug or pull the trigger?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Pull the plug or pull the trigger?


 
  Hahaha yeah you are right Im going to pull something soon


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So good news...my Lyr shipped out today (thanks Jason for the quick shipping). I paid for Express shipping to Canada, so hopefully latter part of next week it'll arrive and I can hear my HE-6s (and LCD-2s for that matter) with this powerful amp.
> 
> FWIW, last night, I did plug my HE-6s into my 5.1 home theater Pioneer Elite receiver (thanks Rob for the suggestion) and I finally got a good appreciation for what the Hifiman headphones can really do. All I can say is wow....they are great world class cans and wow...they need a LOT of power.
> 
> ...


 
  Hey MacedonianHero,
   
  I got notice that my Lyr was also being shipped a few days ago. Perhaps the 2 units were sent off to Canada at the same time. They could be traveling here together.
   
  I can't wait to get mine this coming week. I've already made shelf space for it.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> I can't wait to get mine this coming week. I've already made shelf space for it.


 
  Me 2


----------



## msninja

the other day I got the preorder payment-link for the LCD-2 that I've been waiting eagerly for around one hour after I placed my order for the Lyr, imagine the smile on my face the rest of the day


----------



## SHAHZADA123

How different is the Lyr compared to WooWA22
   
  I know the price difference is quite a bit but the reason I ask is because I will be getting the WA22 in a couple of days, and am considering pre-ordering the Lyr.
  Does it make sense to have both.
   
   
  Headphones are PS1000, GS1000i, RS1i, LCD-2, HD800


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> How different is the Lyr compared to WooWA22
> 
> I know the price difference is quite a bit but the reason I ask is because I will be getting the WA22 in a couple of days, and am considering pre-ordering the Lyr.
> Does it make sense to have both.
> ...


 
   
  Not for your headphones unless you are setting up a different listening room. If you haven't already, look into a balanced source and balanced re-termination or re-cabling of your headphones to take full advantage of the WA22. You should also look into NOS tubes, particularly the higher-yielding power tube alternatives.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sperandeo said:


> Hey MacedonianHero,
> 
> I got notice that my Lyr was also being shipped a few days ago. Perhaps the 2 units were sent off to Canada at the same time. They could be traveling here together.
> 
> I can't wait to get mine this coming week. I've already made shelf space for it.




LoL...there is spot on my shelf waiting for my Lyr too. 

What headphones are you planning to run with it?


----------



## sperandeo

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I have a fresh pair of LCD2's just waiting for 6 watts of love.


----------



## MacedonianHero

sperandeo said:


> I have a fresh pair of LCD2's just waiting for 6 watts of love.




Nice!


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Not for your headphones unless you are setting up a different listening room. If you haven't already, look into a balanced source and balanced re-termination or re-cabling of your headphones to take full advantage of the WA22. You should also look into NOS tubes, particularly the higher-yielding power tube alternatives.


 
  Yes I do agree and am going balanced with the WA22.
  I was considering two set-ups;
  Olive 6HD>balanced>WA22>balanced Grados & balanced HD800
  Ipod80GB(lossless) digital in>CambridgeiD100>digital out>Cambridge840C (as DAC)>Lyr>LCD-2
  Please advice.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> Yes I do agree and am going balanced with the WA22.
> I was considering two set-ups;
> Olive 6HD>balanced>WA22>balanced Grados & balanced HD800
> Ipod80GB(lossless) digital in>CambridgeiD100>digital out>Cambridge840C (as DAC)>Lyr>LCD-2
> Please advice.


 

 Sounds great but don't forget to compare the LCD-2 with the WA22 as well, and tell us how it goes! I'm actually going to have the opportunity make that comparison myself pretty soon.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Sounds great but don't forget to compare the LCD-2 with the WA22 as well, and tell us how it goes! I'm actually going to have the opportunity make that comparison myself pretty soon.


 

 OK, Let's see who gets there first


----------



## MrScary

So Noboby has their Lyr yet for impressions I was thinking about pulling the plug today.


----------



## rroseperry

@MrScary there are a bunch of impressions in this thread, starting around page 2 or 3.


----------



## Misterrogers

I'll definitely have more to share, but I want to get at least 100 hours on it before hand. So far though, it's outstanding. Fast, resolving, power in reserve, awesome with both low and high impedance cans (Denon D2/7000's, DT 990/600). This is my first amp with any tubes, so I'm excited to roll in the future.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mine shipped out today. Can't wait for this bad boy to arrive. I don't have a proper setup for it right now (just going off my Sansa Fuze V2 - LOD - Lyr), but I will be getting my good desktop at the end of April, and hopefully the HE-4 before that.


----------



## MrScary

Thanks I will go back and look I guess I will find out soon enough as I pulled the plug and ordered one this morning. Now to save up for new headphones


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I'll definitely have more to share, but I want to get at least 100 hours on it before hand. So far though, it's outstanding. Fast, resolving, power in reserve, awesome with both low and high impedance cans (Denon D2/7000's, DT 990/600). This is my first amp with any tubes, so I'm excited to roll in the future.


 


  How is the sound stage?


----------



## Misterrogers

Nice. Very wide, medium depth. This is a very fun, musical amp.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Nice. Very wide, medium depth. This is a very fun, musical amp.


 

 Thanks looking forward to it .. It just shipped with the 2 day delivery cant wait..


----------



## Yuceka

As you can see, my Lyr has shipped and on its way


----------



## MacedonianHero

So I've had my Lyr for several hours now and here are some of my initial impressions:

Build Quality = Brick Schiit house. It is roughly the size of my Concerto but 50% heavier (really solid). The metal casing is quite attractive. 

Sound with my HE-6s: Finally a headphone amp that I have to turn the volume down to run them.  Bass extension is deep (similar to that of my Pioneer Elite home theater receiver from the headphone jack). On my WA2, the volume at 3 o'clock, the bass is also quite good though not as visceral. The Concerto seems a bit too polite here. Listening to Magnificent (by U2, No Line on the Horizon), it's got some really powerful bass at the beginning and the Lyr was able to convey the power (just like my speaker amp/receiver). A great ability to control the bass is also very apparent.

The mids are nice and forward and the treble is fantastic. 

Initially I ran the JJ 6922 tubes and found the amp a bit too clean for my liking...so after a few frustrating minutes, I was able to remove the stock tubes and ran some of my favourite 6922 tubes (Genalex Gold Lions) and the amp warmed up slightly...a bit more organic/tube-like...just how I like it. The sound stage seems to have opened up a bit as well. 

I've got Ron's (Highflight) pigtail adapter arriving within a week or so. I plan to compare the Lyr to the speaker taps on my receiver. That should then let me know where I'm going next.

So far, very impressed with both the HE-6s and LCD-2s. Of my 3 amps on hand, this amp is definitely my go to amp for my HE-6s. I'll need more time to make that call on the LCD-2s.


----------



## sferic

@Macedonian - NIIIIIICE RIG! Respek!


----------



## wuwhere

What mosfet transistor does the Lyr uses?


----------



## debitsohn

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So I've had my Lyr for several hours now and here are some of my initial impressions:
> 
> Build Quality = Brick Schiit house. It is roughly the size of my Concerto but 50% heavier (really solid). The metal casing is quite attractive.
> 
> ...


 


  ugh peter!! lol


----------



## Kremer930

Great comments Macedonian hero. 

I too changed to the genelex ECC88 tubes soon after getting the Lyr because I felt that the amp needed a little more air and midrange detail. I have recently changed back to the stock tubes and have discovered that the stock tubes seem to develop more top end after a longer burn in. It is quite hard to do back to back testing as the tubes are reasonably difficult to swap out combined with the cool down and warm up delays but I think the stock tubes have a little extra bass. 

Do you find similar or am I just loving the Lyr in all combinations?


----------



## oldwine

nice comment, MacedonianHero!!
   
  I saw you also having the WA2, may i know how Lyr drives Sennheiser HD800 / beyerdynamic T1 compared to WA2?? or in simply ask, is it a good choice to get it even having the WA2 already??
   
  Thanks
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So I've had my Lyr for several hours now and here are some of my initial impressions:
> 
> Build Quality = Brick Schiit house. It is roughly the size of my Concerto but 50% heavier (really solid). The metal casing is quite attractive.
> 
> ...


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> So I've had my Lyr for several hours now and here are some of my initial impressions:
> 
> Build Quality = Brick Schiit house. It is roughly the size of my Concerto but 50% heavier (really solid). The metal casing is quite attractive.
> 
> ...


 


  glad you like it out of the box. How difficult  or frustrating was putting the tubes in. keep us informed.


----------



## Hero Kid

So much unnecessary photo quoting :/


----------



## MacedonianHero

kremer930 said:


> Great comments Macedonian hero.
> 
> I too changed to the genelex ECC88 tubes soon after getting the Lyr because I felt that the amp needed a little more air and midrange detail. I have recently changed back to the stock tubes and have discovered that the stock tubes seem to develop more top end after a longer burn in. It is quite hard to do back to back testing as the tubes are reasonably difficult to swap out combined with the cool down and warm up delays but I think the stock tubes have a little extra bass.
> 
> Do you find similar or am I just loving the Lyr in all combinations?




I'm thinking I prefer the Genalex Gold Lions. I find the bass a (to my ears anyway) a bit more/deeper bass and warmer mids. Overall I find them just a bit more "musical' and "tubey". The stock tubes do sound really good, but come off a bit clinical. I will need to burn them in a bit before passing final judgement on them. (My Genalex tubes already have about 50 hours on them from my WA2).


----------



## MacedonianHero

oldwine said:


> nice comment, MacedonianHero!!
> 
> I saw you also having the WA2, may i know how Lyr drives Sennheiser HD800 / beyerdynamic T1 compared to WA2?? or in simply ask, is it a good choice to get it even having the WA2 already??
> 
> Thanks




I did quickly pop in my T1s with the Lyr and liked it very much...but on first impressions not as much was the WA2. I do plan to plug in my HD800s tonight for more comparisons. But my initial thoughts are that my WA2 will be my high impedance dynamic amp (and LCD-2 amp from time to time), the Lyr will mainly run my orthos and the Concerto will be my Edition 8 amp (and occasionally my LCD-2 amp).

So if you already have the WA2, I would stand pat with either the T1/HD800. It is the better dynamic headphone amp IMO. If you're looking at the HE-6s, then yes, the Lyr is a must (or a full speaker amp).



frank i said:


> glad you like it out of the box. How difficult  or frustrating was putting the tubes in. keep us informed.




It's not impossible...but it does take some fiddling to get them out. Not a show stopper though by any means.


----------



## Kremer930

macedonianhero said:


> kremer930 said:
> 
> 
> > Great comments Macedonian hero.
> ...




Interesting thought. Perhaps I need to burn in the gold lions then. Hmm sounds very appealing. The same great bass with additional detail and some tubiness to boot. Awesome. 

To those people that think it is hard to change tubes on the Lyr ...just grab some grippy rubber and gently rock. They are quite easy. Looks like I will be changing them soon. Again.


----------



## MrScary

Now you guys have me looking up Genalex Gold Lions tubes for sale and the Lyr is still on the Fedex truck for delivery today hahahahaha 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DemonicLemming

I'm going to order a set of Gold Lions on the same day I put my order in the the Lyr.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Now you guys have me looking up Genalex Gold Lions tubes for sale and the Lyr is still on the Fedex truck for delivery today hahahahaha


----------



## MrScary

Well I just got my Lyr a couple hours ago and am very pleased with it sounds great the case gets warmer than I thought it would, gotta keep the cat now from wanting to crawl on top of it. hahahaha


----------



## tetrislol

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


   
  Not sure that you will be able to answer the question, but figured I might as well throw it out there. I understand that you prefer the WA2 as a dynamic headphone amp as compared to the Lyr; but when considering a more price compatible contender like the WA6, do you think that the Lyr would be a worthwhile amp for non-orthos?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





tetrislol said:


>


 


  I am planning on getting some HE6's but right now Im using HD650's and I think that the Lyr sounds awesome woke up the HD650's big time.


----------



## MacedonianHero

tetrislol said:


>




I've only briefly tried my T1s (and HD800s tonight) on my Lyr and you know...they sound great! But I still prefer my WA2 (with about $300 of upgraded tubes) with my dynamic cans (and the LCD-2s are incredible with it too). You are right though, we are talking 2-3X price difference. The sound difference is certainly not 2-3X.

The WA6 is a great amp and very SS in it's signature....for me I prefer a more "tubey" amp with the T1s and HD800s, so it's hard to make that call. I do find the Lyr (with my Genalex Gold Lions) a bit warmer from what I remember of the WA6.

The advantage with the Lyr is that if you decided to pick up the HE-6s, you'd also have an amp for them too. The LCD-2s sound great on the WA6 from reports by ears I trust.

Tough call really.


----------



## Kremer930

mrscary said:


> Well I just got my Lyr a couple hours ago and am very pleased with it sounds great the case gets warmer than I thought it would, gotta keep the cat now from wanting to crawl on top of it. hahahaha




That is funny. You will know that your cat found the Lyr if it has two branded circular dots on it's side. Wonder if anyone has tested the effectiveness of cats as tube dampeners....


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  hahaha thats hilarious man


----------



## macbob713

I'm running the Lyr with the HD800 and the AKG Q701. Both sound better than with my Burson HA-160. To me, the 800's really opened up. Both sound superb to me with the Schiit.


----------



## tetrislol

Thanks for the great responses guys; I appreciate it.


----------



## gh0st0

Lyr just arrived after it's trip across the Atlantic, and I'm up schiit creek with 6 watts of paddle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Simply put, I'm loving this amp with the LCD-2. It really works well with their bass capability without letting it get out of control, or losing definition, and the mids and highs manage to get just the right amount of tubeyness, if you're into it, whilst remaining well resolved and not overly warmed up.
   
  Definately agree that the Gold Lions raise it's game, but that's not to say there is too much wrong with the stock tubes out of the box. I had the genelex already so I rolled them in fairly quickly (not sure why there's a fuss about getting the tubes out - marigolds ftw 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Overall I'd agree with what's already been said, a bit more air, perhaps a touch more definition in the bass too.
   
  Even with the cost of some new tubes, this has to be one of the best value products in hifi today.


----------



## Uchiya

Wow, what a difference the Lyr makes from my Rx2.  There's some real ooomph added to the bottom end there.  Shame the imaging blows.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Wow, what a difference the Lyr makes from my Rx2.  There's some real ooomph added to the bottom end there.  *Shame the imaging blows*.


 
  Can you explain what you mean please?


----------



## Uchiya

Ah, I mean the headphones, not the LYR itself.  It really brought out what everyone was complimenting these headphones about but exposed it's weaknesses even more.  Love/Hate I guess with the LCD-2.  It pairs wonderfully with my q701's also - the amp of course.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Ah, I mean the headphones, not the LYR itself.  It really brought out what everyone was complimenting these headphones about but exposed it's weaknesses even more.  Love/Hate I guess with the LCD-2.  It pairs wonderfully with my q701's also - the amp of course.


 
  Interesting observations.  I find that if the recorded material contains imaging information, the LCD-2s faithfully reproduce it.  If it's not there to begin with they faithfully reproduce that too.  They don't add to, or take away from what's been recorded.  That's my preference, but it may not be yours.  That's cool.


----------



## kwkarth

Lyr in the house!  It's running in as I type.  It's currently giving the AKG-K1000s a little exercise.  Sweet sounds!
  Listening to Grisman, Garcia, & Rice pickin' 'n' grinnin' on The Pizza Tapes from HD Tracks.  'Puts a smile on my face too!


----------



## Uchiya

Yeap, I wonder what Jan from Meier is going to do next.  Exciting times for Head--fiers.


----------



## kwkarth

Indeed, exciting times!


----------



## Uchiya

And your impression of the LCD-2 is probably more accurate thereof from what I said, I suppose that's why I like what Q701 does, albeit "artificial" kinda like those yamaha DSP's.


----------



## kwkarth

I have a pair of Q701 and Q501s too and I'm looking forward to what the Lyr will do for them!


----------



## Uchiya

Can I just be a Career Headphile?  LoL, times like these.  Good stuff.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Lyr in the house!  It's running in as I type.  It's currently giving the AKG-K1000s a little exercise.  Sweet sounds!
> Listening to Grisman, Garcia, & Rice pickin' 'n' grinnin' on The Pizza Tapes from HD Tracks.  'Puts a smile on my face too!


 

 Would love to hear you expand on how well you think the Lyr drives the K1000 compared to whatever you have been using. I have both but not heard the K1000 with anything else other than at a meet briefly. So, does it make the K1000 shine or am I missing something by not driving them off a speaker amp or the such.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Would love to hear you expand on how well you think the Lyr drives the K1000 compared to whatever you have been using. I have both but not heard the K1000 with anything else other than at a meet briefly. So, does it make the K1000 shine or am I missing something by not driving them off a speaker amp or the such.


 
  After the amp/tubes get some hours on them, I will post my eval of how it does with the K-1000s in that thread.  So far, I've never heard my K-1000s sound better and I also have the SAC K-1000 amp made for them.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496436/audeze-lcd2-vs-akg-k1000


----------



## MacedonianHero

kwkarth said:


> After the amp/tubes get some hours on them, I will post my eval of how it does with the K-1000s in that thread.  So far, I've never heard my K-1000s sound better and I also have the SAC K-1000 amp made for them.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/496436/audeze-lcd2-vs-akg-k1000




Great comments Kevin. Glad you're enjoying the Lyr. It is my new "go to" ortho amp. It proved to me that both the LCD-2 and HE-6 really need a lot of power to reveal what they can really do. Both opened up quite a bit to reveal just how good they can sound.

I'm looking forward to more of your Lyr + LCD-2 thoughts.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Stay tuned!  I've already heard changes in the amp and I've only got about 7 hours on it thus far.


----------



## tunarat

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Lyr in the house!  It's running in as I type.  It's currently giving the AKG-K1000s a little exercise.  Sweet sounds!
> Listening to Grisman, Garcia, & Rice pickin' 'n' grinnin' on The Pizza Tapes from HD Tracks.  'Puts a smile on my face too!


 
   
  That freaking recording is so sweet, I must have listened to it way more than a half a dozen times in the last week or two (a lot of hours). Ask my wife
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Haven't even heard it on the LCD2's yet, just sounds so cool with the speakers.


----------



## sperandeo

Just got my Lyr today. 

I need to spend some time with it.


----------



## msninja

I just picked up my Lyr, and lo and behold, they seem to have shipped me the 115V version, not the 230V I ordered. Haven't dared plug it in since I fear it will blow a fuse. They shipped to correct europlug cable, but I think the amp is 115V. Seriously annoyed now, especially since my LCD-2's seems to arrive tomorrow


----------



## jamato8

Maybe there is an internal switch or the transformer has wiring for 115 or 230. ?


----------



## msninja

Phew, after contacting Jason and him looking in to the matter, it seemed like they just managed to put the wrong voltage sticker on the amp. It works fine when I turned it on, I guess the fuse would have blown immediately if it indeed were a 115V version. Kudos to Jason and his gang, I got email replies just a few minutes after I sent my first distressmail


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





msninja said:


> Phew, after contacting Jason and him looking in to the matter, it seemed like they just managed to put the wrong voltage sticker on the amp. It works fine when I turned it on, I guess the fuse would have blown immediately if it indeed were a 115V version. Kudos to Jason and his gang, I got email replies just a few minutes after I sent my first distressmail


 
  Fantastic! I look forward to reading what you hear. I would love to get one of these. I need to get off this island.


----------



## DemonicLemming

My Lyr, HE-4s, Gold Lion tubes are all in the mail, and I just sent in my order for an NFB-3.
   
  My brain might pop once I get everything hooked up and listen to Anneke van Geirsbergen...


----------



## DaNuS

Has anyone noticed the noise floor on this amp?  I just received mine and I am noticing a constant hiss at all volume levels with the only current cans I have (Audio Technica M50's).  I tried different sources to rule that out as an issue.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





danus said:


> Has anyone noticed the noise floor on this amp?  I just received mine and I am noticing a constant hiss at all volume levels with the only current cans I have (Audio Technica M50's).  I tried different sources to rule that out as an issue.


 

 I don't have a pair of M50s to test here, but there is no hiss audible with any of the headphones I've plugged in to mine thus far.


----------



## DaNuS

Thanks!  I thought it a bit odd.  I'll give them a call today.


----------



## mitos

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hey MacedonianHero, how do the Lyr compare with the youra  Woo Audio WA2 and Concerto with the LCD-2. I know the WA2 are most expensive and the Concerto is SS, I'm just curious about those two amps. Cheers


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> My Lyr, HE-4s, Gold Lion tubes are all in the mail, and I just sent in my order for an NFB-3.
> 
> My brain might pop once I get everything hooked up and listen to Anneke van Geirsbergen...


 
  I just ordered a NFB-3 to go with my Lyr as well now the wait for the NFB-3 is going to kill me


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mitos said:


> Hey MacedonianHero, how do the Lyr compare with the youra  Woo Audio WA2 and Concerto with the LCD-2. I know the WA2 are most expensive and the Concerto is SS, I'm just curious about those two amps. Cheers


 
  Both the Concerto and the WA2 would seem anemic compared to the Lyr.  The Woo is the stronger of the two, but still doesn't have anywhere near the punch of the Lyr, IMO.  The more demanding the headphone, the more apparent the differences become.  Driving a more suitable load for the WA2, like the T1, one may observe different results.  I haven't heard the T1 on the Lyr yet, so I can't call that one.


----------



## blankdisc

I just ordered a Lyr to go with my NFB-3 now the wait for the lyr is going to kill me.  hehe....
  anyway, NFB-3 is fantastic, especailly when you consider the price.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I just ordered a NFB-3 to go with my Lyr as well now the wait for the NFB-3 is going to kill me


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> I just ordered a Lyr to go with my NFB-3 now the wait for the lyr is going to kill me.  hehe....
> anyway, NFB-3 is fantastic, especailly when you consider the price.


 
  hahaha guess I got that backwards wait maybe I'm wearing my headphones backwards as well ohhh dear..


----------



## Wil

Has anyone had extensive experience witht the Lyr paired with the Beyer T1?
   
  I tried it out today and it was good enough for me to place an order for one. (the amp)


----------



## MacedonianHero

kwkarth said:


> Both the Concerto and the WA2 would seem anemic compared to the Lyr.  The Woo is the stronger of the two, but still doesn't have anywhere near the punch of the Lyr, IMO.  The more demanding the headphone, the more apparent the differences become.  Driving a more suitable load for the WA2, like the T1, one may observe different results.  I haven't heard the T1 on the Lyr yet, so I can't call that one.




Agreed again Kevin.  I would say that the Concerto is the most "polite" sounding amp with the LCD-2s. The WA2 sounds more full and while not up to the same level with the Lyr, it is a darn good match for the LCD-2s. But in the end, I prefer the Lyr with both my HE-6s and LCD-2s. As I've mentioned, after hearing both the HE-6 and LCD-2 with 4 Watts of power, I have come to the conclusion that these orthos really need a lot of power to reveal what they can really do. 

I have tried out my T1s on my Lyr and if you're looking for a sub $500 amp, this is a great choice. But I do prefer my WA2 (with upgraded tubes: 5998 Tung-Sol power tubes, CV2492 Mullard Driver tubes and EZ80 Mullard rectifier tubes) with my T1s (and HD800s for that matter). The WA2 is the best amp I've heard the T1s with to date.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I have tried out my T1s on my Lyr and if you're looking for a sub $500 amp, this is a great choice. But I do prefer my WA2 (with upgraded tubes: 5998 Tung-Sol power tubes, CV2492 Mullard Driver tubes and EZ80 Mullard rectifier tubes) with my T1s (and HD800s for that matter).* The WA2 is the best amp I've heard the T1s with to date.*


 

 No surprise there, the WA2 is a lovely amp.


----------



## MacedonianHero

kwkarth said:


> No surprise there, the WA2 is a lovely amp.




Jack certainly makes some wonderful products.  But as surprised as I was on how well the WA2 drove my HE-6s, the Lyr was definitely a cut above and a far more appropriate amping solution (for both orthos).

What tubes are you using right now?


----------



## epocs

Great ot hear that the Lyr is so well received! Just curious, would you rather keep the lyr or the wa2 if you're driving both the lcd-2 and the hd800? Is the increase in performance for the hd800 on the wa2 significant from the lyr?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## DaNuS

Hey guys, just got some quick feedback from Schiit saying that the M50's efficiency might be the issue with the noise floor/hiss I hear. Anyone have a pair or something similar in efficiency that they can try for me? I want to make sure the hiss I heart is normal. Won't have orthos for a while.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





danus said:


> Hey guys, just got some quick feedback from Schiit saying that the M50's efficiency might be the issue with the noise floor/hiss I hear. Anyone have a pair or something similar in efficiency that they can try for me? I want to make sure the hiss I heart is normal. Won't have orthos for a while.


 

 I can try with mine tonight if you want. Honestly, Ive never really plugged them in but for a minute for fun. They are more of a portable phone to me. I pretty much just use them on the road. Im not surprised at all that they might hiss though. This amp has a high gain and even with my Arrow if I turn the gain up they hiss quite a bit.


----------



## DaNuS

pseudohippy said:


> I can try with mine tonight if you want. Honestly, Ive never really plugged them in but for a minute for fun. They are more of a portable phone to me. I pretty much just use them on the road. Im not surprised at all that they might hiss though. This amp has a high gain and even with my Arrow if I turn the gain up they hiss quite a bit.



.
Hey that would be awesome! Just want to make sure everything is good on my amp


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





danus said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I gotta ask though. Apparently some people say static and hiss are completely different. To me they are the same basically. When are you hearing the hiss so I can recreate it the same. Are you hearing it with no source connected and the volume half up, or not up at all. Basically give me a test I can perform and try to describe the hiss a little. Ill be home and testing in about 3hours.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I'm running the stock JJs as I peruse the alternate possibilities.  I want to give them enough time to hit their stride before I really evaluate the amp.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





danus said:


> Hey guys, just got some quick feedback from Schiit saying that the M50's efficiency might be the issue with the noise floor/hiss I hear. Anyone have a pair or something similar in efficiency that they can try for me? I want to make sure the hiss I heart is normal. Won't have orthos for a while.


 
  I've got a couple of high efficiency cans that I can try, but I won't get to it until tonight.


----------



## DaNuS

The hiss I hear is constant and source independent. It is noticeable especially during quiet passages.
 Also it doesn't change as I increase or decrease the volume. Wish I had other cans but I'm still waiting. I would assume folks with akg 70x might hear it since they seem fairly sensitive. But I've seen no comments suggesting this.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





danus said:


> The hiss I hear is constant and source independent. It is noticeable especially during quiet passages.
> Also it doesn't change as I increase or decrease the volume. Wish I had other cans but I'm still waiting. I would assume folks with akg 70x might hear it since they seem fairly sensitive. But I've seen no comments suggesting this.


 
   
  Gotcha, Ill post up in a few hours. I know exactly what you are talking about since my M50s do the exact same thing with my Arrow. Im also curious if they do it with the Lyr.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





danus said:


> The hiss I hear is constant and source independent. It is noticeable especially during quiet passages.
> Also it doesn't change as I increase or decrease the volume. Wish I had other cans but I'm still waiting. I would assume folks with akg 70x might hear it since they seem fairly sensitive. But I've seen no comments suggesting this.


 
  Nope, the K701s are silent out of the Lyr.  No hiss.  They are not a sensitive can.


----------



## Skylab

Sounds like DaNus may have gotten some noisy tubes.  Wouldn't be the first noisy pair of JJ's in the world, I can promise you that.


----------



## Kremer930

I havent got any hissing with the K702 Lyr combo. 
  
  Quote: 





danus said:


> The hiss I hear is constant and source independent. It is noticeable especially during quiet passages.
> Also it doesn't change as I increase or decrease the volume. Wish I had other cans but I'm still waiting. I would assume folks with akg 70x might hear it since they seem fairly sensitive. But I've seen no comments suggesting this.


----------



## DaNuS

Skylab,
   
   Thanks for weighing in.  This is only my second amp with tubes.  The first one I had was very silent.  Would there be any other indicators?  I did notice when I powered the unit down this morning, it made an odd sound (similar to turning off an old CRT  TV) through the headphones.


----------



## pseudohippy

Im definately getting a tiny bit of hiss and a light buzz if you listen super duper close. Its a non factor for me and it only happens with my M50's so far. Stock tubes.
   
  EDIT: Actually Id say there is quite a bit of racquet being made by the M50's. This is all tested with no music playing though. With the music it is just audible in the quiet parts.


----------



## claybum

I've had my Lyr a few days and it seems like a great amp. It is very silent with my LCD 2 and HD 650. However, I have a pretty good hum going with my DX 1000, D 2000 and HF 2. The owners manual states to correct a hum noise, one might try  a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on either the Lyr or your source. I've tried this and it helps but there is still some hum. Anybody else having this experience?
   
  On another note, the Lyr sounds fantastic with the LCD 2. A nice improvement over my woo audio 6m.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





claybum said:


> I've had my Lyr a few days and it seems like a great amp. It is very silent with my LCD 2 and HD 650. However, I have a pretty good hum going with my DX 1000, D 2000 and HF 2. The owners manual states to correct a hum noise, one might try  a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on either the Lyr or your source. I've tried this and it helps but there is still some hum. Anybody else having this experience?
> 
> On another note, the Lyr sounds fantastic with the LCD 2. A nice improvement over my woo audio 6m.


 
  I hear faint hum when I crank it wide open with no input.  Below 3 o'oclock, no hum.  With any input at all, no hum.  No hiss under any circumstance.


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





claybum said:


> I've had my Lyr a few days and it seems like a great amp. It is very silent with my LCD 2 and HD 650. However, I have a pretty good hum going with my DX 1000, D 2000 and HF 2. The owners manual states to correct a hum noise, one might try  a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on either the Lyr or your source. I've tried this and it helps but there is still some hum. Anybody else having this experience?
> 
> On another note, the Lyr sounds fantastic with the LCD 2. A nice improvement over my woo audio 6m.


 
   
  What about on the HD650s? That's the only good set I have, though I do want to go to an Audez'e model (probably will have the LCD-3 out by the time I can get one). I want to get an amp to pair up with the HD650s, and have been considering the Valhalla and WA6, but the Lyr just seems especially awesome--my choice keeps going back to it. I love that you can roll tubes on this Schiit model, and would be futureproofing for an LCD2 or perhaps 3!


----------



## DaNuS

Pseudohippy,
   
   
  Cool.  Thanks for testing this for me!  Hopefully it will be a non-issue for me as I don't plan on using those cans with this amp.  Just the only thing I had around to make sure everything was up and running


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I hear faint hum when I crank it wide open with no input.  Below 3 o'oclock, no hum.  With any input at all, no hum.  No hiss under any circumstance.


 
  This is exactly what Im getting with my MS2i at the moment. The M50's just dont need an amp like this Im afraid. Although, they dont make hiss on the WA2. Problem is they are way to dark with the WA2 and the tubes Im running anyhow.


----------



## claybum

Quote: 





mikenike said:


> What about on the HD650s? That's the only good set I have, though I do want to go to an Audez'e model (probably will have the LCD-3 out by the time I can get one). I want to get an amp to pair up with the HD650s, and have been considering the Valhalla and WA6, but the Lyr just seems especially awesome--my choice keeps going back to it. I love that you can roll tubes on this Schiit model, and would be futureproofing for an LCD2 or perhaps 3!


 

 The Lyr and the 650's sounded real good but I have only spent a short time with that combo and can't at this time draw any conclusions between the lyr and my woo audio 6.


----------



## MacedonianHero

epocs said:


> Great ot hear that the Lyr is so well received! Just curious, would you rather keep the lyr or the wa2 if you're driving both the lcd-2 and the hd800? Is the increase in performance for the hd800 on the wa2 significant from the lyr?
> 
> Thanks in advance!




If I only owned the LCD-2s and HD800s, I would have stuck with my WA2. But since the HE-6s arrived, the Lyr was a necessity.


----------



## foaming at the ears

I hope there's more tube rolling discussion forthcoming!
   
  I just ordered the Genalex based on people's feedback here.  This is my first tube amp, and the Lyr already sounds so good with the JJs that I'm curious how the sound will change (for better or for worse) upon tube rolling.  Would love to hear from people who have tried Siemens, Mullards, Amperexes, etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Lyr came in today, and of course I missed the delivery. Gotta wait until tomorrow. Not that I can truly give them a proper setup yet. :rolleyes:

Still, expecting good things.

Can't wait to hear how the KSC75 siiiings through the Lyr. I'm dedserios 

Gonna be testing the M50s I sold to my roomie as well.


----------



## Mr G

I tried the lyr with hd600 at an audio shop. While there was no hum with no music playing, I could hear some hissing whenever the volume knob is turned up. it stops once the volume has been set. I understand that they were using stock tubes.


----------



## Kremer930

foaming at the ears said:


> I hope there's more tube rolling discussion forthcoming!
> 
> I just ordered the Genalex based on people's feedback here.  This is my first tube amp, and the Lyr already sounds so good with the JJs that I'm curious how the sound will change (for better or for worse) upon tube rolling.  Would love to hear from people who have tried Siemens, Mullards, Amperexes, etc.




There are some user comments about the Sylvania tubes too in this thread earlier I am fairly sure.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mr g said:


> I tried the lyr with hd600 at an audio shop. While there was no hum with no music playing, I could hear some hissing whenever the volume knob is turned up. it stops once the volume has been set. I understand that they were using stock tubes.


 


  Some bad tubes or something I have HD650's and the Lyr is silent at any position on the dial with them.
  I have about 40 hours on my Lyr


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my Lyr today. Quickly set all my Schiit up.

First setup: Sansa Fuze V2 - LOD - 3.5mm to RCA cable - Lyr

First test: D7000

Those with Denons have no fear. I have to put the Lyr at around 11 o clock on the pot to get it to my preferred volume, at least with source like the Fuze. That's actually a very teeny bit MORE than where I put the volume pot on my Fiio E9 on HIGH gain.

Initial impressions? Awesome. I didn't expect any less. I haven't A/B'd them against the E9 yet, but I can already tell the Lyr sounds just a smidge warmer but more analytical. Keep in mind this is just off my Fuze. I still need a lot more testing.

Edit: quick A/B.

Fuze V2 - LOD - E9 - RCA Line Out - Lyr (still sounds the same as running the Fuze straight to the Lyr).

This way I can just plug my D7000 to the E9 or Lyr on the fly.


 The E9 has slightly more treble energy. I'm gonna assume its because of SS vs Hybrid Tubes. Also, the Lyr is definitely a bit thicker...more meaty, while the E9 has a drier sound. I'd say the E9 is more musical, IMHO. The E9 sounds fantastic to me still. The difference is more personal presence and not technical inferiority to me. SS vs Tubes, that sort of thing. I'm glad that I own both. 

Hum with the D7000? Yes, but its SO low, there's no way you'd hear it with any music.

The build quality is stupid sick. You could KILL with how strong the build is. VERY impressed.

Further impressions to come, with some very unscientific A/B comparison.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

More impressions and comparisons.

The E9 might just best the Lyr for me when it comes to the midrange. On both the D7000 and PC360, the mids were sweeter on the E9. They sounded a little too polite on the Lyr by comparison.

Damn, its hard to choose. The Lyr is the safer choice for people. It won't get close to sibilance whereas the E9 might on certain recordings. The bass on the E9 isn't as impactful, but less controlled than on the Lyr, which has EXCELLENT bass refinement. The midrange/vocals sounds more involved on the E9. The Lyr is definitely easier on the ears for those sensitive to treble and sounds more refined here as well.

So its a bit of a toss up for me at the moment. It sounds more balanced on the Lyr. It's more musical on the E9.

So yeah, its weird. More bass boom, mids sound more sweet and treble is sparklier at similar volumes on the E9. The Lyr has more bass impact, less boom, mids and treble are more fleshed out but less energetic, but the treble sounds better.

If people ever find the Lyr sibilant, the E9 will be even moreso.

So far, I do prefer the D7000 with the Lyr, by a small margin. The thickness has swayed me towards the Lyr. It sounds fuller.

With the PC360, I prefer the E9 by a considerable margin. It highlights the PC360's mids. Noticably better than the Lyr to me.

YMMV, and I will say that they are both awesome amps. Synergy is gonna play a bigger role from what I can tell.

I didn't get the Lyr for just the D7000, but I'm surprised that even though its warmer, the D7000 still sounds crisp, clear, and engaging. I wouldn't justify buying the Lyr over the E9 for the D7000, but I didn't get the Lyr for those to begin with.

I know people are gonna say the Lyr deserves a better source to shine, but the same can be said of the E9. They are still on equal ground in terms of the source.


----------



## Misterrogers

It'll be interesting to see how you feel they compare when Lyr is burned in. I'm at about 40 hours and changes are happening.


----------



## awyongcarl

I've got mine running since yesterday, my impression is exactly the same as Mad Lust Envy, given that we have the same amps.
   
  Lyr is definitely amazing, but I am in fact much more amazed the fact how well E9 have put up for its price!
   
  The design and built quality of Lyr is just top notch, I am very impressed the moment I open up the box and held it in hand, it is very very very solid and stylish too.


----------



## Kremer930

I have never listened to the E9 but am impressed that it rates as comparable given its cost is a quarter of the Lyr, which is probably half of what it could be sold for.
   
  My initial impressions of the Lyr were also that it didnt have quite the midrange detail or top end sense of space as my Darkvoice 337 but give the standard tubes time,  They definitely gain more sparkle with time.  It is a little unfair comparison as my Darkvoice has a couple hundred hours on the Tung Sol 5998 tubes so they are silky smooth.  But the bass detail and power improvement from the Lyr straight up was night and day.
   
  The Genelex ECC88 tubes bring this level of detail up to another level again.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> The Genelex ECC88 tubes bring this level of detail up to another level again.


 

 Are the Genelex ECC88 tubes still available?  I did a web search and didn't find any outlets for them.  But I do see several places offering the Genelex Gold Lion E88CC which are shown as an equivalent model.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If there is one thing that surprised me negatively about the Lyr, is that its the first time I found my D7000 to have recessed mids. Of course, I will have to due a bit more testing.

The Lyr is smooth. I tend to prefer the 'edginess' of the D7000 when running out of everything else, but the Lyr's smoothness is so good, I'm becoming more and more of a fan. Its still fresh out the box, so I look forward to it changing for the better.


----------



## jamato8

Are there any internal shots of the Lyr Schitt?


----------



## MacedonianHero

bmoura said:


> Are the Genelex ECC88 tubes still available?  I did a web search and didn't find any outlets for them.  But I do see several places offering the Genelex Gold Lion E88CC which are shown as an equivalent model.




They are new issue tubes and plentiful as they are still being made.

http://thetubestore.com/goldlione88cc.html


----------



## MacedonianHero

mad lust envy said:


> If there is one thing that surprised me negatively about the Lyr, is that its the first time I found my D7000 to have recessed mids. Of course, I will have to due a bit more testing.
> 
> The Lyr is smooth. I tend to prefer the 'edginess' of the D7000 when running out of everything else, but the Lyr's smoothness is so good, I'm becoming more and more of a fan. Its still fresh out the box, so I look forward to it changing for the better.




The D7000s sound fantastic out of my iBasso D4, not really surprising there. Just plug in a pair of HE-6s into an E9 and the Lyr to see the differences.


----------



## MacedonianHero

double post...sorry.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I know. That's exactly why I didn't expect the Lyr to show me much with the D7000, though people love to say how much the D7000 loves power. Asides from the thickness/meatiness, treble control, and solid bass, I would have to say the D7000 sounds more dynamic and engaging with the E9.

Once I'm clear for the HE-4, that's when I know my Lyr will be justified. That's the reason I even wanted the Lyr...

I would have to say the balance of the Lyr would DEFINITELY suit the DT990s. I almost wanna get them again.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I know. That's exactly why I didn't expect the Lyr to show me much with the D7000, though people love to say how much the D7000 loves power. Asides from the thickness/meatiness, treble control, and solid bass, I would have to say the D7000 sounds more dynamic and engaging with the E9.
> 
> Once I'm clear for the HE-4, that's when I know my Lyr will be justified. That's the reason I even wanted the Lyr...
> 
> I would have to say the balance of the Lyr would DEFINITELY suit the DT990s. I almost wanna get them again.




What tubes are you running on the Lyr? The sound signature you're mentioning is classic JJ tubes.


----------



## Misterrogers

It does suit the DT990/600's VERY well. I've listened to the Lyr with my D2000's, HD 600's and DT990's - and I keep coming back to the 990's  Very dynamic and musical.


----------



## Skylab

macedonianhero said:


> bmoura said:
> 
> 
> > Are the Genelex ECC88 tubes still available?  I did a web search and didn't find any outlets for them.  But I do see several places offering the Genelex Gold Lion E88CC which are shown as an equivalent model.
> ...




Just to avoid confusion, that link is to the ECC83, which is NOT usable in the Lyr. Genelex is only currently making the E88CC/6922, and not an ECC88/6DJ8, I believe.


----------



## MacedonianHero

skylab said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > bmoura said:
> ...




Sorry Rob...you are correct....this is the link I meant to use:

http://thetubestore.com/goldlione88cc.html

Too late for me on a Saturday night...how pathetic is that?


----------



## Skylab

I hear ya, buddy - I'm ready for bed!


----------



## MacedonianHero

skylab said:


> I hear ya, buddy - I'm ready for bed!




Funny, it all started when the kids were born. I wonder why?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm running stock tubes. I won't be rolling until these die on me. Its my first time with tubes, and I really like the balance the stock tubes have. I wouldn't change anything on them. Just saying that the E9 has sweeter mids. I lean more towards bass and treble over mids, so I don't have a problem with the Lyr as is. Unless there's a tube with the same bass control and impact, sweeter mids, and same treble, I'm not looking to alter the sound the Lyr has. I'm not willing to sacrifice the bass or treble for more mids.

Besides, these babies are new. It'd be a waste not to thoroughly give them the time they deserve.


----------



## Rope

Here's a link that will save anyone looking a couple of bucks on the Genalex Gold Lion Tubes.
   
http://analogtubes.com/tubeshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_118&products_id=1030&zenid=6a2d8aaf3e2a6d7e475f5333387ba39b


----------



## foaming at the ears

MLE,
   
  I'm glad you're enjoying the Lyr's strong suits immediately.  I found the Lyr a little disappointing the first day, but after leaving it running for 20 hours (a night's sleep + a day's work), I came back to an improved amp.  The Lyr AND its tubes benefit dramatically from the initial burn-in session, IMO.  Leave it on for a while and see if your impressions change.
   
  And, not to sound pushy on your wallet, as for waiting to tuberoll until AFTER the JJ's die, why have so much patience, man?  That's 5000-10000hrs (or a little under a year of *continuous *play time, assuming uniform distribution) before you're going consider upgrades for your Lyr (cheap and easy to do, relative to buying a new amp).
   
  I agree with you that the stock tubes are great.  In fact, they leave little room for a first time tube amp owner (I am like you, here) to wonder how the amp could be improved upon.  Hopefully we'll all see some significant feedback on Genalex's (and other tubes) once more people start trying out different tubes (the reason I'm most excited about Skylab's review).  In any case, the Genalex's are supposed to have refined bass, some nice sparkle, and really famous lush mids, and these traits might be what you're looking for to tailor your Lyr to minimize its perceived deficiencies.
   
  In any case, enjoy your Lyr and your soon-to-come HE-4's!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Many thanks. 

Well, I have to put the HE-4 purchase on hold as my company's contract is over next month, so I'm not sure if I'll have a place to work this time next month. Couldn't have come at a worse time. I just got my Lyr and Desktop (which I am returning for the same one with a better processor and cheaper price). So my funds are gonna be micro managed for a little while until my company situates me elsewhere, and who knows how long that will take?

Anyways, if there are tubes that are truly worth it (no extra warmth, no subdued bass, no treble roll off, more mids), I might consider it in the future. The delicate balance of the stock tubes is key for me, and any compromises are out of the question. The treble is pretty much as smooth as I'd like them to be. They could stand to be just a smidge more sparklier, so any more smoothness will kill it. The ridiculously tight and controlled but powerful bass is damn good and wouldn't want to lose that. That pretty much just leaves the mids to be improved. Never heard of gaining something in the audio spectrum without sacrificing something else, so I'm not holding my breath. If mids were more important to me, I'd roll sooner.


----------



## jronan2

Dam that sucks about your job..hopefully it will work out


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Meh, it happens in Security. I was moved last year as well. I been with them almost 7 years, so I think I will be alright. Security is always necessary, and having seniority has its perks.

Still, if Head-Direct would have put the HE-4 on Amazon a few days ago, I would have had those as well. Now I gotta be smart and wait it out.


----------



## mitos

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Both the Concerto and the WA2 would seem anemic compared to the Lyr.  The Woo is the stronger of the two, but still doesn't have anywhere near the punch of the Lyr, IMO.  The more demanding the headphone, the more apparent the differences become.  Driving a more suitable load for the WA2, like the T1, one may observe different results.  I haven't heard the T1 on the Lyr yet, so I can't call that one.


 
  Thanks for the feedback kwkarth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I might go tubes in the future, just the try them out. Just seems a hassle to tube roll.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Testing the M50 now. They sound almost exactly the same on the E9 and Lyr. Crazy. With close inspection, the bass has more presence in the E9, but sounds more controlled on the Lyr. We're talking about a very, very slight difference between the two. They sound too similar. Again, the E9 has more vocals but its very, very close. The Lyr sounds just a teeny bit more natural, like 5% more if I had to make up a number. The treble again is more aggressive on the E9.

With something like the M50, the Lyr is overkill, as the E9 (and I assume any other amp) will make the M50 shine just as brightly.

The E9 is quiet with the M50. The Lyr still has the hum.





Testing the KSC75 (yes I'm serious)

Man, these sound great off both. The price/performance is ridiculous. I dunno anyone that wouldn't like the KSC75 with the Lyr especially.

Again, SQ is close with both. The main difference is that the KSC75 brightness is fleshed out by the Lyr.



If anything can be said, its that the Lyr sounds more natural to me than the E9 which sounds emphasized in certain frequencies to make them more aggressive.

I been mentioning the hum on the noise floor. Its there with all these sensitive headphones. No doubt. But its very low. Not an issue to me whatsoever.


----------



## Loevhagen

Does this Sciit has auto bias? (i.e. making tube rolling easy for non-technical users)


----------



## Mikha

Hi!
   
  Will Schiit Lyr be better for Denon AH D-2000 than the M^3 amp? Mostly listen to trance, house, drum and bass. Thanks!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Testing the M50 now. They sound almost exactly the same on the E9 and Lyr. Crazy. With close inspection, the bass has more presence in the E9, but sounds more controlled on the Lyr. We're talking about a very, very slight difference between the two. They sound too similar. Again, the E9 has more vocals but its very, very close. The Lyr sounds just a teeny bit more natural, like 5% more if I had to make up a number. The treble again is more aggressive on the E9.
> 
> With something like the M50, the Lyr is overkill, as the E9 (and I assume any other amp) will make the M50 shine just as brightly.
> 
> ...


 



 I tried my Future Sonic M8's last night with the Lyr and heard no noise at any level I think they are 32ohms though


----------



## blankdisc

mikha said:


> Hi!
> 
> Will Schiit Lyr be better for Denon AH D-2000 than the M^3 amp? Mostly listen to trance, house, drum and bass. Thanks!




probably a little bit overkill i would say, but again you will get a future-proof amp in case you want to move to ortho later. I am not saying that ppl shouldn't use it with high efficiency headphones, but it's obviously not what it was designed for.


----------



## msninja

I've been trying out the Lyr with my K701 and W1000X for a few days now (my LCD-2's should arrive on tuesday!) and the initial impression is that the K701 improved the most, while the W1000X probably doesn't need the raw power of the Lyr. The K701 definately gained more control in the lower bass-regions, which has been my main gripe with it. I also noticed a slightly warmer tone in the treble region compared to my Heed Canamp, making a little less sibilant. Definately a good match!
   
  The ATH-W1000X on the other hand, seems not to have gained much at all, except a little bit of noticable hum which was not present on the Heed or Benchmark. I admit most of my listening these last few days have been with the K701 since they seemed to have changed the most, so I have not given final judgement on the W1000X on the Lyr yet.
   
  My main reason I bought the Lyr was for the LCD-2, so the K701 sounding better than ever is mainly just a nice bonus


----------



## DemonicLemming

From what I've read about the Gold Lions, they basically take all the aspects of the stock tubes, and improve on them.  A "budget option" that was suggested by Jason was the 6N1P OTK tubes, which are also supposed to be pretty nice, at a lot lower cost than the Gold Lions (about $20 vs $100 for matched pairs).
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Many thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jamato8

The best 6N1P by far is the black plate, which preceded the grey plate and actual intended use in circuitry. The black plate are made a little different but they are hard to find. Most are from the mid sixties. The Gold Lion, from all accounts appear to be the real deal and worth getting. I know I would get them and I have around 200 NOS in 6DJ8 types (6922, 6DJ8, 7308)


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's what I've seen as available - Genelex E88CC/6922 - not ECC88/6DJ8.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I was able to steal my roommate's netbook for a few hours, allowing me to use the E7 as a DAC.
 
E7 (docked to the E9) - RCA Line Out - Lyr
 
Okay, now with a more powerful source than the Fuze, I have the limit the Lyr with the D7000 to around 10 o' clock, as opposed to 11 or so with the Fuze. Same goes with the E9. They seem to peak at around the same position on the volume knob with all the headphones I have tried so far (though they aren't hard to drive).
 
Sorry to say, but the E9 outshines the Lyr with the E7, whereas the Lyr just doesn't sound as dynamic. Comes off a bit reserved. The Lyr definitely has a better balance all around, but it doesn't pull you in the way the E9 does. There's more bite with the E9.
 
Just my brief impressions.
 
I will eventually upgrade my DAC, but I'm finding myself leaning more towards the SS sound of the E9 over the more laid back Lyr and it's tubey sound.
 
The E7's slight hint of warmth brought out more thickness in the E9, while still maintaining the aggressive sound I've come to love from it.
 
Perhaps I'm just an SS guy who likes a little edge to my sound.
 
The Lyr still sounds great with the E7, but it's just....reserved in comparison. Not a major difference, but one I could spot.
 
Not saying the E9 is better. Just saying that the signature is more to my liking. The Lyr still sounds more natural, and more like it means business.
 
The Lyr still has much to show me what it can do compared to the E9 when it comes to hard to drive headphones. I look forward to the day I get to do so. As it stands, anyone with mostly easy to drive headphones will find the Lyr to be overkill and not necessarily best anything with less power. Just what I experience. We all know that's not what the lyr was made for anyway.
 
Still, considering how well it DOES do with easy to drive headphones and how well it's known to do with power hogs, I could see the Lyr as being the one amp people can buy and not look into anything else.


From what I can see, the Lyr benefits from a brighter source, while the E9 benefits from a warmer one.

One more thing. The E9 had consistently more sub bass presence, whilst the Lyr had the punchier bass, but didn't seem to go as low as the E9 (which is known to go hellishly low).

The Lyr definitely had a flatter frequency response, so neutral heads will enjoy the Lyr. The E9 sound artificially boosted in comparison. I'm referring to the frequency curve. As far as general tone goes, the E9 sounds close to neutral, while the Lyr has a warm tone.

I know I'm repeating myself now, lol. No more impressions until I get something to truly test these two amps. Harder headphones, and better source.

Loving my Lyr. Putting that out there.

Edit: To make it as easy as I can to compare, I'll make a small number scale, comparing the 5 main aspects of sound. 0 being neutral, more meaning emphasis/quantity.

Sub-bass:

E9: 2
Lyr: 0

Mid-bass:

E9: 0
Lyr: 1

Mids:

E9: 1
Lyr: 0

Mid-Highs:

E9: 1
Lyr: 0

Highs:

E9: 2
Lyr: 0

E9: 2, 0, 1, 1, 2
Lyr: 0, 1, 0, 0, 0

So as you can see, I find the Lyr to be quite flat in balance, E9 boosted. Hope you guys understand me, lol. Also, in the ENTIRE spectrum, I found the Lyr to sound more refined over the E9.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone know of any tubes that are brighter and more aggressive than the stock tubes? I don't want any more warmth than the stock tubes have.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of any tubes that are brighter and more aggressive than the stock tubes? I don't want any more warmth than the stock tubes have.


 
  The stock tubes are not noted to be of great quality. I have never heard them so I can not comment on how they sound. I do know that JJ has a lot of QC issues. As far as sound that may be brighter (if the JJ is rolled off or not extended) and not overly warm, there are many. The Siemens 6922 is very good, one of the best to my ear, and quite neutral with a refined but extended high frequency range. There is a Amperex 6DJ8 that was actually made in Russia, as Amperex had shut down, that is excellent. You can tell they are Russian as there is no etched markings on the glass and the tube is fatter than Amperex and the pins that go through the glass are reddish. The list goes on as there are so many variation and versions of the 6DJ8 family.


----------



## K3cT

According to a friend who just received his Lyr, it's not "fast" enough for him. What do you guys have to say to this? Hopefully I can drop by his place to peek a listen in the weekend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have a problem with it's speed. I just wish it attacked more. Its a soft amp, FWIH. I definitely feel it wants an energetic source.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have a problem with it's speed. I just wish it attacked more. Its a soft amp, FWIH. I definitely feel it wants an energetic source.


 


  Maybe the The Gold Lion tubes will make a difference in the softness. I believe the same thing it needs a good source if a person is using a mp3 player to source the Lyr they are getting little of the potential of the Lyr. My Gold lions should be here Wednesday so It will be interesting to see the change in sound signature.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The stock tubes are not noted to be of great quality. I have never heard them so I can not comment on how they sound. I do know that JJ has a lot of QC issues. As far as sound that may be brighter (if the JJ is rolled off or not extended) and not overly warm, there are many. The Siemens 6922 is very good, one of the best to my ear, and quite neutral with a refined but extended high frequency range. There is a Amperex 6DJ8 that was actually made in Russia, as Amperex had shut down, that is excellent. You can tell they are Russian as there is no etched markings on the glass and the tube is fatter than Amperex and the pins that go through the glass are reddish. The list goes on as there are so many variation and versions of the 6DJ8 family.


 
  So now what tubes to get now Im more confused than ever I hope the The Gold Lion's sound good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I changed from the MP3 player to my E7 fed from the Netbook, as well as PS3 RCA out to the Lyr. All three instances had the same outcome. There's no excuses. This is just the Lyr's inherent signature.

There IS however an update. After 24+ hours of burn in, the Lyr is definitely changing for the better. The mids have come out to play, as did the sub bass. The E9 still has more mid and treble attack, but now the sound is even more comparable now. If the Lyr keeps bringing out more of the mids, then it will DEFINITELY be better for me than the E9. The E9's mids are still incredibly impressive and more upfront.

The Lyr is growing up, and I may not want more than the stock tubes. I will let it cook itself for another 24 hours.

As it stands, even the warmth has subsided. It sounds more neutral now. Its getting harder to tell the E9 and Lyr apart. SERIOUSLY. Other than the Lyr's slightly thicker sound and E9's sweeter mids and edgier treble, they sound similar. I'm so happy now. 

Ironically, for the $450 Lyr to sound more like the $130 E9 and it making me happy, well... lol. Dunno why, but it does. Proving that for at LEAST easy to drive headphones like the D7000, the E9 provides very similar performance. Damn, I need something to push the Lyr. =/


----------



## Kremer930

Some of the comments made on this forum may need to be considered before being accepted as accurate.  Consideration of a users experience and the equipment used to develop that experience add together to provide credibility to the opinions. 
   
  I am not remotely an expert on headphone equipment and am looking forward to Skylab getting his review amp. 
   
  In the interim I am going to continue enjoying my Lyr knowing that it can drive my HE6 better than either my Audio-GD or Darkvoice 337.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of any tubes that are brighter and more aggressive than the stock tubes? I don't want any more warmth than the stock tubes have.


 

 Sounds like what you want is a Siemens E88CC or "CCA".  Unfortunately, these are $300/pair, generally.
   
  Alternatively, you might try a pair of JAN Philips 6922's.  Much cheaper, not a warm tube.  The stock JJ's are a warm and fuzzy sort of tube, IMO (note that my comments are from years of experience with this type of tube but NOT from direct experience with the Lyr).


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have a problem with it's speed. I just wish it attacked more. Its a soft amp, FWIH. I definitely feel it wants an energetic source.


 
   

 Look at your source.
 Let it burn in fully before rolling tubes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kremer930 said:


> Some of the comments made on this forum may need to be considered before being accepted as accurate.  Consideration of a users experience and the equipment used to develop that experience add together to provide credibility to the opinions.
> 
> I am not remotely an expert on headphone equipment and am looking forward to Skylab getting his review amp.
> 
> In the interim I am going to continue enjoying my Lyr knowing that it can drive my HE6 better than either my Audio-GD or Darkvoice 337.




I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're beating around the bush and are talking about me. If you are, just say so. I never said I was the final word, and my Lyr is still getting better and better.

As I have stated already, the Lyr is definitely more refined and balanced compared to the E9. What the E9 does better is attack with its aggressiveness. I'm not the only to think the Lyr is a little clinical with stock tubes. They do have their differences, and the Lyr is smooth, while the E9 is edgy. When I say they have a similar performance, I mean that they come in the realm of less than 10% difference to me now, at least with the easy to drive cans.

 I have no doubt the Lyr will leave the E9 in the dust when getting to the tough stuff like the HE-6. Which is exactly why I wanted it in the first place.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





k3ct said:


> According to a friend who just received his Lyr, it's not "fast" enough for him. What do you guys have to say to this? Hopefully I can drop by his place to peek a listen in the weekend.


 
   


 Look at your source.
 Let it burn in fully before rolling tubes.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> So now what tubes to get now Im more confused than ever I hope the The Gold Lion's sound good.


 
   

 Look at your source.
 Let it burn in fully before rolling tubes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kwkarth said:


> Look at your source.
> Let it burn in fully before rolling tubes.




3 different sources, same outcome. The Lyr is more polite than the E9. Doesn't matter what I plug it into. Its not major difference, but it is there. But I mentioned before, the E9 sounds artificially boosted for its aggressiveness. The Lyr's natural tone sounds higher quality.

The stock tubes are getting noticably better. I probably won't want to roll to fix anything.

My initial impressions were just that, initial.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It may be that the Lyr will never achieve the level of graininess and edginess that your E9 has.  That would be by design.  Let it burn in more before you decide anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. E9's has an edgy and slightly artificial tone, while Lyr is smooth and realistic. There's no mistaking which sounds more hi-fi. Lyr means business, and business is picking up. 

Damn, I can't wait until I get the HE-4... sigh.


----------



## Happy Camper

Having extra (listenable) volume on the knob is a must. Seems the Lyr does that well for most every can out there according to reviews.
   
  The HE-4 should be right at home.


----------



## Misterrogers

I was just thinking - many of these same sorts of comments - 'not fast enough', 'boring', etc. came when the Asgard hit the streets. I own both Asgard and Lyr and they do share a similar signature - with Lyr being way more dynamic and a bit warmer (which makes sense, tubes and all). I've come to believe that these sorts of comments are often an individuals attempt to describe the classic 'class A' sound. My VHP-2 sounded 'faster' to me too at first. Lots of A/B listening between the two come down to the VHP-2 being grainier and edger. I was hearing the 'edge' to notes more. The notes we're arriving at the same time, just with a harder edge on the VHP-2.
   
  I ramble. My core thought here is - while they'll be lots of words offered up to describe what people are hearing, a large part of listeners contentment with Lyr will come down to whether you enjoy the sound of a class a topology amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

misterrogers said:


> I was just thinking - many of these same sorts of comments - 'not fast enough', 'boring', etc. came when the Asgard hit the streets. I own both Asgard and Lyr and they do share a similar signature - with Lyr being way more dynamic and a bit warmer (which makes sense, tubes and all). I've come to believe that these sorts of comments are often an individuals attempt to describe the classic 'class A' sound. My VHP-2 sounded 'faster' to me too at first. Lots of A/B listening between the two come down to the VHP-2 being grainier and edger. I was hearing the 'edge' to notes more. The notes we're arriving at the same time, just with a harder edge on the VHP-2.
> 
> I ramble. My core thought here is - while they'll be lots of words offered up to describe what people are hearing, a large part of listeners contentment with Lyr will come down to whether you enjoy the sound of a class a topology amp.




This is my first amp with tubes. I just assumed that tubes don't have the same graininess and edge as strictly op-amp only based amps by nature.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


>


 



> Look at your source.
> Let it burn in fully before rolling tubes.


 



 Whats the general consensus for burning in the tubes? just curious if there is one I have about 60-70 hours on my Lyr


----------



## gopack87

Quick question: can the Lyr serve as a preamp for active studio monitors?  I know it has rca out but haven't heard of any one connecting speakers yet


----------



## spork42

Quote:http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/10.html


> _*On the preamp outputs*_: "The Lyr's pre-outs are amplified and controlled by the volume pot, i.e. not pass-thrus. Relative to high-power preamps that would be a bit of a misnomer though. Preamps almost always have some series resistance in the output. In Lyr's case that's 75Ω. Other than a relatively low-impedance output to drive long cable runs, a high-power preamp would have no real benefit I know of."


 
   
  Looks good to me.
   
  Quote: 





gopack87 said:


> Quick question: can the Lyr serve as a preamp for active studio monitors?  I know it has rca out but haven't heard of any one connecting speakers yet


----------



## ChavaC

Reading over some of the tube rolling discussion, it sounds like if I'm looking for a little more soundstage and warmth for pairing with LCD-2s the gold lions would be a solid choice?


----------



## tunarat

Quote:  









> Whats the general consensus for burning in the tubes? just curious if there is one I have about 60-70 hours on my Lyr


 
   
  Don't know about the JJ's as I did not care for them and were replaced almost immediately. The Lyr itself needs a good 48 to 72 hours to start settling in though. I'd give it at least that for starting any critical analysis.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





chavac said:


> Reading over some of the tube rolling discussion, it sounds like if I'm looking for a little more soundstage and warmth for pairing with LCD-2s the gold lions would be a solid choice?


 


  I'm hoping that the gold lions give more soundstage myself the warmth would be nice now Im waiting on a new DAC and the LCD's and the gold lions ohh dear.


----------



## epocs

Interesting how this amp is being actively compared with 100 dollar amplifiers and 1000 dollar amplifiers.... makes me wonder what's going on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

epocs said:


> Interesting how this amp is being actively compared with 100 dollar amplifiers and 1000 dollar amplifiers.... makes me wonder what's going on.




We're comparing AMPING, not headphones which will have the most obvious affect to the sound. What's wrong with comparisons? Since when has the price of audio equipment reflected the sound quality? As far as I'm concerned, audio equipment is overrpriced on a regular basis. I've seen plenty of stuff price in the $200 or so range that is known to compete with stuff worth 5x as much.

The main benefit I see in something like the Lyr is raw power for the hard to drive stuff, refinement over what I have, ability to roll tubes, and build quality, among other subtle things. I didn't expect miraculous changes over what I have, at least with headphones that the majority of amps can already handle.

I think the price of admission is well worth it for the Lyr. Normally, I would have expected an amp like this to cost over $1000 given how versatile it is.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote:  


> Whats the general consensus for burning in the tubes? just curious if there is one I have about 60-70 hours on my Lyr


 
  That should be good.


----------



## Loevhagen

Does the Lyr have auto bias?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kwkarth said:


> That should be good.




So 3 days burning in then? Cool. I have only left it on about 30 hours straight so far, and even I could tell its changed for the better, and I'm a skeptic. New toy syndrome doesn't affect me, so I'm honestly pleased with how the Lyr is turning out. I'll leave it on 2 more days.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> That should be good.


 
  Thanks


----------



## spork42

I am rather new to tubes myself, but I know that, at least for the Woo 6 SE, Jack recommends leaving the amplifier on for a maximum of 10 hours at a time; in fact I thought that such limits, though not necessarily limited to 10 hours, are common to all tube amplifiers.
   
  Is this not the case with hybrid designs?
   
  Leaving a tube amplifier on for 30 hours straight, without giving the heating element a rest, seems like it could harm the tubes.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. I don't mind letting it rest for 10 hours on, 10 hours off.


----------



## spork42

I would give them a rest, but I believe the general rule of thumb is to let the tubes cool down to room temperature before turning the amplifier back on after a long session.  10 hours of rest therefore may not be required either, but no harm ever came to playing it safe.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I mean more like letting them rest while I sleep and then some, and leaving them burning in while I'm in the house. That or vice versa. I'm already quite happy with them, so I'm not too worried about burning them in much more to get some magical SQ out of nowhere. From this point on, burning in is an afterthought.


----------



## spork42

I figured as much, but just wanted to clarify my previous statement, even so.
   
  As for the Lyr itself, I am seriously conflicted.
   
  I have my name down for a pair of LCD-2s, and I currently have a Headamp GS-1, which searching tells me should be a good match.  As I have been wanting to give myself the option for adding "tube sound" (i.e. warmth, an "enhanced, airy" soundstage) to my rig, and considering the GS-1's "wire with gain" philosophy, my first thought was to get a hybrid DAC to pair with it.  (I currently use an Emotiva XDA-1 off of my home theater stack.)
   
  The "problem" is that the Lyr is less than just about every hybrid DAC that made it to my list, haha.
   
  From this thread, it feels like the Lyr does not have an obvious "tube sound" with the stock tubes?  Is this fair to say?  Should I factor something like the Gold Lions into the cost to get that "tube sound" option?


----------



## jamato8

Power tubes should not be run constantly but tubes like the 6DJ8, if run at normal operating points can be left on a long time. I have left tubes on for over a year, no problem, again it depends upon what type of tube. Some Western Electric tubes that were used in communications were on for over 30 years, the same tube. I was a radioman in the US Navy and all we used was tubes. They were not shut down, not even the huge power tubes in our transmitters, nor was the radar equipment with tubes shut down, except for maintenance and they lasted a very long time. The transmitter tubes were run hard and used hard. This is the same tubes, in general, that you are talking about there, small signal tubes, except the transmitter, which used large power tubes on the output of course. 
   
  For general use I would not leave power tubes on all the time, they don't have the life span a small signal tube has and if I am going away from the house I shut tubes down, except for the small signal tubes but those are shut down as well if I am going away for any length of time. I would imagine the small signal tubes in the Lyr are run at normal or conservative points and should have no trouble with being left on.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

Is there any more information regarding the chamfered edges on the upcoming Lyrs?  I've been looking at getting one and this sounds like a good thing to have.  Also, does anyone have any impressions with the Lyr with the Sennheiser HD650 in comparison to a Woo Audio WA6/SE or WA22 (yes, I am fully aware that those are in a completely different segment, but I would be very interested in seeing how the Lyr compares to them.)?  Right now I have an Audinst HUD-mx1 which I would use as my source until I pick up something "better".


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


thephoenix924s said:


> Is there any more information regarding the chamfered edges on the upcoming Lyrs?  I've been looking at getting one and this sounds like a good thing to have.  Also, does anyone have any impressions with the Lyr with the Sennheiser HD650 in comparison to a Woo Audio WA6/SE or WA22 (yes, I am fully aware that those are in a completely different segment, but I would be very interested in seeing how the Lyr compares to them.)?  Right now I have an Audinst HUD-mx1 which I would use as my source until I pick up something "better".


 

 I also was going to wait for the chamfered edges as well but when I pinged Jason at Schiit about it he said the prototypes with the chamfered edges were cracking and that if it was going to happen, it might be awhile, if at all.  So I went ahead and ordered one.


----------



## jamato8

I asked about the Lyr and got an email back today that they would be shipping again around the end of the month. I was hoping they were in stock but I guess they are selling very well.


----------



## Kremer930

gopack87 said:


> Quick question: can the Lyr serve as a preamp for active studio monitors?  I know it has rca out but haven't heard of any one connecting speakers yet




I can't see why it wouldn't work. The line out is limited to normal levels and is variable in line with the volume control. 

I have used the Lyr to throughput my dac signal to my home pre-amp and it works fine. Your monitors should work similarly.


----------



## Kremer930

I have been thinking about my comments and have decided that even if I dont agree with the content or delivery of posts that I should respect the passion and input of all fellow Head-fiers.  I agree with most of what you are saying Mad Lust in that the overall delivery of the Lyr is slightly soft and lacking in some sparkle/crispness or edginess as I think you called it and yes time burning in does improve the stock tubes significantly as does a change to the Genelex Gold Lions.
   
  I am sorry if I offended.  My comments were not of a positive and mature nature.

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## grokit

My Lyr is hyr 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  And I must say that I am impressed with this little beast out of the box. Setup was a breeze; I already had a space reserved on my desk, as well as a set of Amprex gold pin 6922s, an interconnect, and a fresh NOS (to me) pair of stock K701s. So I didn't bother with the stock tubes, and tried the LCD-2s first with Audeze's new SE cable. Had a little hum, which was mostly solved with a cheater plug, also standing by.
   
  I still get a faint hum on the planars and I do get a little more on the Edition 8, but they sound great with the music playing. The hum is with the volume turned all the way down; it increases slightly when I turn the knob without music playing, and I can perhaps make out a slight change where the Lyr goes from class A to AB. Strangely I get no hum/buzz at all with the K701.
   
  The tubes are NOS and still need to break in; tubes are the only physical equipment that I am fully convinced breaking in makes a difference. So they need to settle down, and there is a lot of listening to do with my more demanding headphones like the HE-6/KK, but I am already convinced that this is a solid purchase for anyone that wants to get a single amp "to drive them all" without breaking the bank.
   
  The mids are quite present with all three headphones, I think the recessed mids that others have mentioned could be due to the stock tubes. It doesn't have the magical refinement of my WA22 but it does have a slightly euphonic signature when compared to the solid state offerings that I have heard, particularly of the non-discrete variety.
   
  I'm looking forward to making some comparisons with my speaker amp setup that I use for my HE-6/KK's as well as with the WA22's SE output for easier to drive headphones. And for those that favor the K701 I think that the Lyr is a great way to inject new life into them, in fact for the AKGs the Lyr seems like just the right Schiit.


----------



## logwed

If you still have a SE cable for your HD600s, I'd love you forever if you would comment on them with the new Lyr. In your own time, of course 
   
  Congratulations, I am very jealous!


----------



## grokit

Yeah I have a nice SE Double Helix for them, will dig that out soon. Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My Lyr is hyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So the Lyr hums with the LCD-2s? that is not a good sign as I am on the waiting list to get some. Could it be your tube selection that is causing the hum?


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





grokit said:


> My Lyr is hyr
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I really agree about the K701 on the Lyr, it really benefits them! I noticed improvements in both treble aggressiveness (less sharp, but still lots of detail) and bass control which has been my main two beefs with this can. I also get no hum with the K701 but definately some with the W1000X. My LCD-2's should arrive today


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> So the Lyr hums with the LCD-2s? that is not a good sign as I am on the waiting list to get some. Could it be your tube selection that is causing the hum?


 
   
  It's barely noticeable but it is there. My tubes will need to settle down but this seems to be a developing consensus, that the Lyr seems to have the gain set just a little beyond a totally black background with many headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. The hum is soooo minor to the point that you'll probably split hairs trying to find a way to get no hum. As soon as music starts, or you have any sort of ambient sounds around you, the hum disappears. My tower fan is quiet, but audible enough to negate the hum on the Lyr when I'm not playing anything. I'd have to turn the fan off to note the hum. I NEVER turn my fan off. And the fan is dead silent when I play music.

People seriously shouldn't make a big deal out of something so minor. Wait until you get the Lyr before screaming murder about the hum.


----------



## claybum

My Lyr has zero hum with LCD2 and HD650 (both sound great with the Lyr). I get a good hum going with my D2000, DX1000 and HF2. This is an amp for hard to drive phones.


----------



## jamato8

I wonder if they use AC on the filaments? This can be more dynamic but at the cost of some hum. It could also be just the particular tubes being used, the JJ or a trace in the wrong place. Normally hum that goes up in volume is amplified 60 cycle that is on the input. There could be a ground loop. It was mentioned by someone that a cheater plug got rid of the hum, which could indicate a ground loop. Often you only want one component to earth ground anyway.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I wonder if they use AC on the filaments? This can be more dynamic but at the cost of some hum. It could also be just the particular tubes being used, the JJ or a trace in the wrong place. Normally hum that goes up in volume is amplified 60 cycle that is on the input. There could be a ground loop. It was mentioned by someone that a cheater plug got rid of the hum, which could indicate a ground loop. Often you only want one component to earth ground anyway.


 


  Thanks for the comments jamato8 makes me feel better about getting the LCD=2's I haven't heard any hum yet with the Lyr with any of my phones even my little earbuds.


----------



## gh0st0

mrscary said:


> Thanks for the comments jamato8 makes me feel better about getting the LCD=2's I haven't heard any hum yet with the Lyr with any of my phones even my little earbuds.




Mine hums into my LCD-2, not affected by the volume level and equal in both channels. Two changes of tubes and a cheater plug made no difference.

To be honest though, it's inaudible when any music is playing, even in the quietest passages, so I'm not sweating it.


----------



## musicman59

I have my friend's tvrboy Lyr as a loan. He ordered it in the 220V version since he is spending time overseas. It has the stock tubes and I am using a step-up voltage converter.
  The first thing I noticed is that it runs hot then like many of you I notice a slight hum but after testing with different headphones it is clear I get the hum with low impedance and efficient headphones when I use the HE-6, HD800 or T1 I get no hum.
  The sound it quite nice for the price of the amplifier. I was very surprised of the bass the HD800 can produce with it. The top end is a little bit sharp but not bad and the midrange is on the dry side IMO. It could be that it needs some more burn in or different tubes. On the other hand it can also be that I am used to the sound of my WA-5-LE with the Mullard ECC32 tubes.
   
  I will let it run some more and report back again. I think a more fair comparison will be against my V200.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> So the Lyr hums with the LCD-2s? that is not a good sign as I am on the waiting list to get some. Could it be your tube selection that is causing the hum?




I hear absolutely ZERO hum from my LCD-2s and Lyr FWIW.


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> mrscary said:
> 
> 
> > So the Lyr hums with the LCD-2s? that is not a good sign as I am on the waiting list to get some. Could it be your tube selection that is causing the hum?
> ...





So some people get hum some don't with the Lyr and LCD-2's this makes no sense I get no hum from my Lyr even with 32ohm earbuds so Im betting that I will get none with the LCD-2's I may eat these words


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > mrscary said:
> ...




Could be of faint ground loops (or dimmers) in their homes causing this issue? I removed all dimmers from our home a few months back. My wife wasn't too happy, but forgiveness was easier to ask for than permission.


----------



## jamato8

Those dimmers are horrible. I wish I knew more about the circuit of the Lyr. For the price and because I love tubes I would like to pick one up.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Those dimmers are horrible. I wish I knew more about the circuit of the Lyr. For the price and because I love tubes I would like to pick one up.


 


  Why dont you just ask Jason. There are some pretty good internal pics in the 6moons review.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jamato8 said:


> Those dimmers are horrible. I wish I knew more about the circuit of the Lyr. For the price and because I love tubes I would like to pick one up.




Seeing that you own the HE-6 and LCD-2, I strongly recommend it. Seeing your stock of 6922 tubes (and variants)...you'd be all set. :evil:


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> Those dimmers are horrible. I wish I knew more about the circuit of the Lyr. For the price and because I love tubes I would like to pick one up.


 
  As pseudohippy mentioned, you should check out the 6moons article on the Lyr.  They interviewed Jason about the design, have pics of prototypes, etc.  Lots of info:
  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> mrscary said:
> 
> 
> > macedonianhero said:
> ...




Im beginning to think its some sort of ground loop issue also I have tried to reproduce hum and just cant, now I get my gold lions tomorrow so it when I roll them it will be interesting to see if I pick up hum


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


usaudio said:


> Quote:
> As pseudohippy mentioned, you should check out the 6moons article on the Lyr.  They interviewed Jason about the design, have pics of prototypes, etc.  Lots of info:
> http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html


 
  Thank you for the link. I don't see where they review the amp. There is no reason an amp has to be complicated, as mentioned in the article. The real cost comes in the power supply, which provides the DC that the AC musical signal rides on. The better the DC, with everything else being equal, the better the sound.


----------



## musicman59

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I  have 7 dedicated lines among my 3 hi-fi systems and my headphone amplifiers are connected to them too. I don't think it is dimmers in my case. It my be some DC in the AC causing the transformer to hum or it could be the step=up transformer.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Quote:
> Thank you for the link. I don't see where they review the amp. There is no reason an amp has to be complicated, as mentioned in the article. The real cost comes in the power supply, which provides the DC that the AC musical signal rides on. The better the DC, with everything else being equal, the better the sound.


 

 Your correct, the review is in process. Although I believe it is all still part of a review, just not on the SQ yet since they are burning in, or whatever they are doing.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Quote:
> Thank you for the link. I don't see where they review the amp. There is no reason an amp has to be complicated, as mentioned in the article. The real cost comes in the power supply, which provides the DC that the AC musical signal rides on. The better the DC, with everything else being equal, the better the sound.


 
  He gave the amp a 2-week burn in first, then will start listening for the review.  I think it's been at least a few weeks now so we might see something as far as listening SQ from them soon.
  What I thought was interesting about the article so far was Jason @ Schiit gave some interesting information on why they made various design decisions, how they're able to operate so efficiently, etc. 
  Plus, Schiit isn't their full-time jobs, I believe it's just a side venture for them!


----------



## jamato8

The problem I have is I enjoy something for a while and then I have to start messing with it. Sure, it can take the sound up a notch or two, as int he pseudo dual power supply that Woo Audio adopted that I first implemented, but sometimes, I just want everything to be there with no need to make changes. Price points always constrain, as we know. And the cost of some expensive components often really increase the cost of an amp or whatever. I will admit that some are of a limited return on audio improvement. In general I think the volume control they use int he Lyr is fine. I like the Goldpoint (I prefer this to DACT, as it is less expensive and DACT has always followed the lead of GP) but at 150 dollars hard cost, it doesn't make sense in an amp like this. I have heard excellent sound from correctly implemented low cost parts, as we know, often the synergy is more important. Superphon was exceptional for what they did with well implemented parts. 
   
  The choice of different 6DJ8 types for this amp, for me, would make it very enjoyable as I truly like the tube when correctly set up.


----------



## mikerobe

So...  This crazy hobby has made me finally plunge into the evil(ly delicious) black discs.
   
  Unfortunately the mid-fi turntable I purchased, the Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 'Genie', started dropping the right channel within the first few tracks when I got home.  Took it back and got a free RCA jack upgrade as they thought that was the culprit.  I skipped home (not really) and threw on some of these new vinyls I had purchased.  How lovel-- dammit!  Right channel dropped out again (intermittent).  This time they tested it before doing anything and couldn't reproduce my problem.  I knew that would happen.  They asked me what my system consisted of.  I stated that the phono preamp was from them and I beamed that my headphone amp was the Schiit Lyr.
   
  "Excuse me?!"
   
  Such a sheepish grin grew on my face.  I figured these guys would've heard of the company... Kind of more fun that they hadn't.  I brought them the preamp and my Lyr and albums I knew the right channel failed during.  They finally were able to find the problem - faulty cartridge, which I had suggested - and fixed it.  So far.  The guy also said he was going to have to keep the Lyr... it just looked too slick.
   
  The vinyl of Simon and Garfunkel's "Concert in Central Park" through the Lyr into LCD-2s... good night.  I get no distortion, even in the height of the crowd screaming.  I have stated it before, but this little amp has such a dynamic range, or control over it.  Certain instruments came in so smoothly.  I finally got the whole '3D imaging' people talk about.  I very nearly could "see" each musician on stage.  Now an amazing repressing of a classic jazz album (Bitches Brew) is absolutely killing me.  I feel like I have good sources and I firmly believe in 'garbage in; garbage out.'  In camping and in audio.  That being said, the Lyr is obviously taking that good signal and adding just enough salt and pepper before feeding it to my ears. 
   
  And how they gobble it up!


----------



## jamato8

Has anyone compared the Lyr to something like the Decware Taboo? Presentation, impact dynamic soundscape, and transparency?


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





musicman59 said:


> ... It my be some DC in the AC causing the transformer to hum or it could be the step=up transformer.


 
 FYI - CIAudio has this nice filter that "removes the DC component caused by unbalanced line usage":  http://www.ciaudio.com/products/XDC2
  I've owned many of their products in the past and they are of high-quality.


----------



## afrobat

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah. The hum is soooo minor to the point that you'll probably split hairs trying to find a way to get no hum. As soon as music starts, or you have any sort of ambient sounds around you, the hum disappears. My tower fan is quiet, but audible enough to negate the hum on the Lyr when I'm not playing anything. I'd have to turn the fan off to note the hum. I NEVER turn my fan off. And the fan is dead silent when I play music.
> 
> People seriously shouldn't make a big deal out of something so minor. Wait until you get the Lyr before screaming murder about the hum.


 


  I currently have the Fiio E7/E9 and one of my major gripes about it is the very audible hum that comes out of it. How much less hum does the lyr have compared to the e9?


----------



## jronan2

I have the fiio e7/e9 and my biggest issue with it is sometimes when i dock the e7 to the e9 there is a very clear audible hum. I don't have a problem with the e9 alone, it only occurs when I immediately dock the e7. It usually goes away after a while, and it doesn't happen every time, but most times. If I leave the e7 docked to the e9 for the day it usually doesn't happen. I don't know if that what's happens to you but that is only issue I have with the set up. This is one reason why I am eventually going to upgrade my set up, most likely replace the e7 with another dac and use the e7 for strictly portable use.


----------



## afrobat

I have the e7 docked to the e9. I can't test the e9 alone at the moment. As for the e7/e9, with my W1000X, from 9:00 on there is an audible hum and gets progressively louder as the volume is turned higher.


----------



## jronan2

I have the same problem, not all the time, but it does happen. The hum does go away eventually after some time, maybe a half hour or so, which is really weird to me. i have tried different usb cables, different usb ports, different plugs really anything i could think of, it just doesn't make sense to me especially since it goes away after a while. I just think the connector from the e7 to the e9 isn't the greatest. When I get a new dac I will see what happens, but I def think its the e7 because once i undock the e7 the hum is gone. It's mostly a big pain with my dt 990 because I use high gain and anywhere from 9-12 o'clock and the hum is noticeable when it does appear.


----------



## spork42

If the hum is only present or noticeable for the first half hour or so after docking the e7, my guess would be that the e7's battery is charging?
   
  With my iBasso D2+, when charging from USB, I have noticed that the device is very, very sensitive to "dirty" power from the USB.  Anything, which carries a charge, placed along the USB cable tends to produce a rather pronounced hum when charging.  This hum is never present when the battery is engaged.


----------



## BournePerfect

Anyone using the Lyr with some Pro 900s or 2900s?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## MrScary

Well I just put in my Gold Lions into the Lyr all I can say is it sure fixed the midrange Im listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn and before with the stock JJ's the guitar was recessed now its right out front the soudstage appears to be improved as well now time to let them burn in.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





spork42 said:


> If the hum is only present or noticeable for the first half hour or so after docking the e7, my guess would be that the e7's battery is charging?
> 
> With my iBasso D2+, when charging from USB, I have noticed that the device is very, very sensitive to "dirty" power from the USB.  Anything, which carries a charge, placed along the USB cable tends to produce a rather pronounced hum when charging.  This hum is never present when the battery is engaged.


 

 That might be the case, never thought about that. Whatever it is it's pretty annoying when it occurs.
   
   
  Anyway, to those that have ordered their Lyr recently, how long did you guys wait till you received it. It looks like Schiit has completed their backorders and now shipping more consistent.


----------



## DemonicLemming

My Lyr and HE-4s both just showed up (unexpected good luck - both on the same day) and not a bit of hum out of my Lyr using the stock tubes.  Gold Lions are due in before the end of the week - if I get any hum with them, I'll post back.
   
  First impressions of the combo - excellent bass extension and a good bit of punch for open cans, mids are nice and chunky without being gooey, and the highs remind me of my K702s, with slightly less sizzle.  Left-right placement is good, soundstage isn't as wide as the K702s.  The Lyr is built like a bloody brick - the weight (about 5lbs) didn't impress me a whole lot until I actually saw the amp - it's a lot smaller than pictures seem to make it.  About the side of a Little Dot MK3.
   
  This is running off a Zero as a DAC, with stock tubes right now.  I imagine there'll be some differences when I switch to my NFB-3 and Gold Lions.
   
  As of right now, this audio noob is quite impressed.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I have the fiio e7/e9 and my biggest issue with it is sometimes when i dock the e7 to the e9 there is a very clear audible hum. I don't have a problem with the e9 alone, it only occurs when I immediately dock the e7. It usually goes away after a while, and it doesn't happen every time, but most times. If I leave the e7 docked to the e9 for the day it usually doesn't happen. I don't know if that what's happens to you but that is only issue I have with the set up. This is one reason why I am eventually going to upgrade my set up, most likely replace the e7 with another dac and use the e7 for strictly portable use.


 
  Is this post intended for this thread?  It seems waaaay out of place!


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> Well I just put in my Gold Lions into the Lyr all I can say is it sure fixed the midrange Im listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn and before with the stock JJ's the guitar was recessed now its right out front the soudstage appears to be improved as well now time to let them burn in.





One of the things I do like very much about the Genalex tubes...they do bring out the mids and sound a little more organic to my ears over the JJ tubes.


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> mrscary said:
> 
> 
> > Well I just put in my Gold Lions into the Lyr all I can say is it sure fixed the midrange Im listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn and before with the stock JJ's the guitar was recessed now its right out front the soudstage appears to be improved as well now time to let them burn in.
> ...




I agree I have noticed the mids are much better


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

afrobat said:


> I currently have the Fiio E7/E9 and one of my major gripes about it is the very audible hum that comes out of it. How much less hum does the lyr have compared to the e9?




My E7/E9 are absolutely dead silent. Definitely quieter than the Lyr. Unless I pass 12 o clock on the E9's volume (which will never happen with real use), the E9 is almost as if I have my headphones plugged into nothing.

The Lyr is definitely audible with all headphones I have plugged in, but again, that's if there's no ambient sound, and nothing is playing. Again, people waiting on the Lyr need to relax about the hum already. Willing to bet that harder to drive headphones won't have hum.


----------



## Yuceka

I don't mean to be rude, but can we just quit talking about E7s and E9s here? Their hum issue or not humming at all has nothing to do with Lyr.


----------



## afrobat

Yeah, I PMed Mad Lust Envy, so you shouldn't be seeing anymore of that in the thread anymore. Sorry about those posts...


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I find it pretty exciting that we have some current tubes that appear to do a great job. It is about time. I am going to pick up some Gold Lion in the next day or so, well order them, even if I don't use them for a while.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jamato8 said:


> I find it pretty exciting that we have some current tubes that appear to do a great job. It is about time. I am going to pick up some Gold Lion in the next day or so, well order them, even if I don't use them for a while.




Of the "new issue" tubes, the Genalex Gold Lions are the only ones that I've found that compares to NOS tubes quite favourably.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> jamato8 said:
> ...


 
  There are some power tubes that are doing good but in the small signal tubes I would agree, the Gold Lion seem to have hit the right balance and quality. 
  I look forward to more impressions with them and the Lyr.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so with the Gold Lions, is more warmth to be expected?

I lost track of the tubes being recommended here, and what they did to the sound compared to the stock tubes.

Personally, I would prefer more forward mids (without extra warmth), and slightly sparklier highs. So pretty much, making the Lyr as SS-sounding as I could get it, within a realistic price range. Someone needs to make a list or something on what to expect from the Lyr with specific tubes. =/

BTW, the hum only comes in when the Lyr is on for a bit...


----------



## jronan2

Relax..people go off on tangents in every thread on here..dont need 3 different people saying the same thing about staying on topic. Someone mentioned a problem with the fiio set up and I simply added to it. I'm not waiting on the Lyr because of a "hum" issue, its a matter of getting some money together.


----------



## sferic

@Rope, thanks to the link to Analogtubestore
http://analogtubes.com/tubeshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_118&products_id=1030&zenid=6a2d8aaf3e2a6d7e475f5333387ba39b
   
  I ordered the Gold Lion Genelex E88CC's Sunday, shipped Monday, they arrived today (Wednesday) GA to CA. Good base price, no extra charge for matching, and regular shipping $6.50 got them here in 2 days (it's priority mail). Well packed. Happy customer.
   
  No complaints about the stock tubes, they were sounding better & better. But hey too much of a good thing makes you want more. And you should always keep spares handy, right? (Feel free to insert more justifications for spending money on audio equipment you don't really need here).
   
  Listening now to the GLs with virtually no burn in, yes, the Amp is MUCH brighter & airier. It's not a subtle difference. For the LCD-2's, first 10 minute impression is GREAT. But the TV's on so put on my closed Denon D5000's and it's a bit of a shock. On older recordings, I'm reminded that tape hiss is annoying. Definitely need some time to settle in, and for my brain to get used to it. Seriously, we're only talking about an hour's listening. No hum or additional noise or anything like that.
   
  I'll listen more the LCD-2's, and brave the PS1000's when I get some alone time in the listening room with the TV off.
   
  Time will tell but this experiment convinced me there's nothing inherently dark or veiled about the Lyr, it's very tunable via tube rolling. And I'm thinking I'll be sticking with the Gold Lions. Right now I'm not feeling the drowning-in-warm-water bass that the D5000's are great for, but the bass is still huge, and the soundstage & detail are pretty amazing. Could be the recordings
   
  ... consider this a "this just in" report with very preliminary impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bookmarked. If it brighter, I will be getting those soon enough. Wait, that's the price for one tube? Oh, my wallet.


----------



## Rope

I paid $90.50 for the Gold Lion's shipped, and I agree with what others have stated.  Mids seem to "bloom" with very little or no change in low frequency response.  The high frequency seems to be a have a little less sizzle.  I'm very pleased.
   
  Disclaimer:
  The GL's only have a coupe of hours time on them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Less sizzle? Meh. Dealbreaker. Don't need the top end to be softer than stock. Keep us posted.


----------



## Rope

The high frequencies are not soft, they lack that irratating sssssssss that grates on my nerves, not unlike nails on a chalk board.
   
  Thus far, I like them much more than the JJ's, however, that may be a product of the HP's interaction with the GL's versus the JJ's.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> The high frequencies are not soft, they lack that irratating sssssssss that grates on my nerves, not unlike nails on a chalk board.
> 
> Thus far, I like them much more than the JJ's, however, that may be a product of the HP's interaction with the GL's versus the JJ's.




I agree the gold lions get rid of the irritating SSSSSSSS hahaha the gold lions are known for their high frequency they are a far superior tube to the stock JJ's no comparison


----------



## jamato8

The JJ are not a quality tube nor do they have good QC but many amp manufactures use tubes that are so-so because they know the tube is going to most likely be rolled and, what would the amp cost with stock GL, maybe 75 more dollars. I would not be without 3 or 4 back up pairs. I like to see what other tubes sound like and tubes go out so who wants to have an amp down for want of a tube? 
   
  I see where there have been a few issues with the GL tubes. Odd, I hope it isn't a trend as I have never read anything but good news about the tube. I will say though that there isn't a tube I have had that a few might pop up that would be noisy. That is part of the grading of a tube. I have some SQ Amperex that are very quiet but then they are graded tubes.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The JJ are not a quality tube nor do they have good QC but many amp manufactures use tubes that are so-so because they know the tube is going to most likely be rolled and, what would the amp cost with stock GL, maybe 75 more dollars. I would not be without 3 or 4 back up pairs. I like to see what other tubes sound like and tubes go out so who wants to have an amp down for want of a tube?


 


  The man knows of which he speaks.  Manufacturers use JJ's because they are cheap and readily available.  To supply a new 6922/6DJ8, you have JJ's, and you have Electro-Harmonix.  That's it.  Anyone thinking the JJ's are used in the Lyr because they are actually good sounding tubes, compared to even the cheapest of NOS tubes, is just kidding themselves.  They're used because they're readily available and easy to supply, and Schiit is working very hard (and admirably!) to supply amps at an attractive price point.  This rules out buying NOS 6922's and supplying those, where their cost for the tubes would go from $5 or so to $20.


----------



## Kremer930

I am a fan of Tung Sol tubes after putting the 5998's into my Darkvoice 337.  Does Tung Sol make any tubes that would suit the Lyr?  Perhaps the 12AX7?  The Lyr still lacks a sense of air about in IMO with my Lyr compared to the DV.  But in everything else the Lyr more than makes up for it.  I probably have 30-40 hours on the Gold Lions.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> The man knows of which he speaks.  Manufacturers use JJ's because they are cheap and readily available.  To supply a new 6922/6DJ8, you have JJ's, and you have Electro-Harmonix.  That's it.  Anyone thinking the JJ's are used in the Lyr because they are actually good sounding tubes, compared to even the cheapest of NOS tubes, is just kidding themselves.  They're used because they're readily available and easy to supply, and Schiit is working very hard (and admirably!) to supply amps at an attractive price point.  This rules out buying NOS 6922's and supplying those, where their cost for the tubes would go from $5 or so to $20.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I am a fan of Tung Sol tubes after putting the 5998's into my Darkvoice 337.  Does Tung Sol make any tubes that would suit the Lyr?  Perhaps the 12AX7?  The Lyr still lacks a sense of air about in IMO with my Lyr compared to the DV.  But in everything else the Lyr more than makes up for it.  I probably have 30-40 hours on the Gold Lions.


 
   
  First of all, a 12AX7 absolutely cannot be used in the Lyr.  6DJ8 (ECC88) or 6922 (E88CC).  Those are your choices.
   
  I have some vintage Tung-Sol 6DJ8's, but I am not certain they were made by Tung-Sol.  RCA did not make 6DJ8's.  Sylvania and GE were the main US makers of that tube type.


----------



## MrScary

skylab said:


> First of all, a 12AX7 absolutely cannot be used in the Lyr.  6DJ8 (ECC88) or 6922 (E88CC).  Those are your choices.
> 
> I have some vintage Tung-Sol 6DJ8's, but I am not certain they were made by Tung-Sol.  RCA did not make 6DJ8's.  Sylvania and GE were the main US makers of that tube type.




I would be interested to see how the Tung Sol tubes sound in the Lyr


----------



## jronan2

I have a question. What cables are you guys using when connecting the Lyr to your dac? Do you guys use the rca's that came with the Lyr or did you guys upgrade? I'm not trying to start a war on the philosophy of whether premium cables actually offer better SQ, just trying to see what you guys are using. Thanks.


----------



## Kremer930

Thanks Skylab.  Always very open to your advice and appreciate your help.
   
  Just using my Darkvoice now and just wish that I had the dynamic reserves of the Lyr and the bass shove but with the timbre and air of the 5998 tubes.  The DV runs out of steam and starts showing signs of breaking up when I get the volume wound up.
  
  Quote: 





skylab said:


> First of all, a 12AX7 absolutely cannot be used in the Lyr.  6DJ8 (ECC88) or 6922 (E88CC).  Those are your choices.
> 
> I have some vintage Tung-Sol 6DJ8's, but I am not certain they were made by Tung-Sol.  RCA did not make 6DJ8's.  Sylvania and GE were the main US makers of that tube type.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Bookmarked. If it brighter, I will be getting those soon enough. Wait, that's the price for one tube? Oh, my wallet.


 


  tubedepot.com has good prices


----------



## DemonicLemming

I'm just using a set of the Monoprice "premium" ones, RCA to RCA, not RCA to mini.  Inexpensive enough and, working in an EMC/EMI lab, if we don't use $3000 cables for our uber-expensive o-scopes and spec analyzers, I doubt my ears would be able to tell the difference between a regular cable and an "audiophile" one.
  
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I have a question. What cables are you guys using when connecting the Lyr to your dac? Do you guys use the rca's that came with the Lyr or did you guys upgrade? I'm not trying to start a war on the philosophy of whether premium cables actually offer better SQ, just trying to see what you guys are using. Thanks.


----------



## jronan2

Thanks for the answer. I never used upgraded cables so I have no idea on whether it really matters. I read that blue jeans cables are very good and affordable, but i'm sure monoprice cables do the job. I bought a 3.5 to 3.5 premium cable from monoprice for my e9 and was very impressed how strong and well made the $3 cable cable was.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so with the Gold Lions, is more warmth to be expected?
> 
> I lost track of the tubes being recommended here, and what they did to the sound compared to the stock tubes.
> 
> ...


 
  One thing I seem to be observing is that as the efficiency of a given headphone decreases, the liveliness of the Lyr seems to increase.  
   
  Another thing I seem to be observing is that with high efficiency headphones, the gain structure of the Lyr does not seem to differ much from the Asgard, but as one listens to less efficient headphones, the Asgard seems to flatten out, while the Lyr seems to come to life.  
   
  So with a high efficiency can, the Asgard may actually sound better than the Lyr, but for medium and low efficiency cans, the Lyr comes alive and keeps on going, while the Asgard seems to comparatively run out of steam in the bass and roll off on the extreme highs.  
   
  That's just my subjective impressions so far, with seven different headphones ranging from the AKG-K1000, LCD-2, K-701, Vintage Sansui SS-100, T50RP, Excel Open Air 50mm drivers, with the Koss E90/ESP-950 as a control.  So far, the Lyr is clearly a keeper.  All but the Excel cans improve sonically when driven from the Lyr over the Asgard.  
   
  More about specifics to come later.


----------



## tvrboy

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Thanks for the answer. I never used upgraded cables so I have no idea on whether it really matters. I read that blue jeans cables are very good and affordable, but i'm sure monoprice cables do the job. I bought a 3.5 to 3.5 premium cable from monoprice for my e9 and was very impressed how strong and well made the $3 cable cable was.


 


  Don't worry about the cable. Me and lots of others on here don't think cables can change the sound.  Sure, a cable with bad plugs or no shield may have problems, but properly designed "regular" cables sound fine. I used $10 RCA interconnects in my $5000 system. I couldn't tell the difference between those and $75 Audioquest Copperhead cables. I do have Audioquest interconnect and USB cables, but I only bought those for the cosmetics. I like the way they look and feel, but there is no way they change the sound. Actually if you are interested in trying out fancy cables, visit an audio dealer. You can audition lots of samples and often a dealer will give you a great deal on B-stock that he wants to shift. That's how I got my Audioquest cables custom made for less than half price.


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


jronan2 said:


> Thanks for the answer. I never used upgraded cables so I have no idea on whether it really matters. I read that blue jeans cables are very good and affordable, but i'm sure monoprice cables do the job. I bought a 3.5 to 3.5 premium cable from monoprice for my e9 and was very impressed how strong and well made the $3 cable cable was.


 
  I've purchased a lot of cables from Blue Jeans Cables and they are high-quality, fairly priced and FAST.  They use primarily US-made Belden cabling.  They're based here in Seattle so if I place my order early enough in the day they usually go out that same day and I have them the next day via USPS!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> One thing I seem to be observing is that as the efficiency of a given headphone decreases, the liveliness of the Lyr seems to increase.
> 
> Another thing I seem to be observing is that with high efficiency headphones, the gain structure of the Lyr does not seem to differ much from the Asgard, but as one listens to less efficient headphones, the Asgard seems to flatten out, while the Lyr seems to come to life.
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting and valuable observations.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Quote:
> I've purchased a lot of cables from Blue Jeans Cables and they are high-quality, fairly priced and FAST.  They use primarily US-made Belden cabling.  They're based here in Seattle so if I place my order early enough in the day they usually go out that same day and I have them the next day via USPS!


 

 I own and incorporate many Blue Jeans Cables in my HT rig, and I agree.  I don't believe you can find a better cable at any price, and Ron is a peach to work with in the event you have a problem, which you won't.
   
  The only time cabling comes into play, which has been mentioned, is a defective cable.  The only other time I can think of is a length (run) vs cable gauge, which is mainly a speaker/HDMI issue.


----------



## kwkarth

Ok,ok, as much as I just can't wait to get sucked into yet another cable argument er, discussion, this ain't the time or place...


----------



## MacedonianHero

jamato8 said:


> The JJ are not a quality tube nor do they have good QC but many amp manufactures use tubes that are so-so because they know the tube is going to most likely be rolled and, what would the amp cost with stock GL, maybe 75 more dollars. I would not be without 3 or 4 back up pairs. I like to see what other tubes sound like and tubes go out so who wants to have an amp down for want of a tube?
> 
> I see where there have been a few issues with the GL tubes. Odd, I hope it isn't a trend as I have never read anything but good news about the tube. I will say though that there isn't a tube I have had that a few might pop up that would be noisy. That is part of the grading of a tube. I have some SQ Amperex that are very quiet but then they are graded tubes.




Very well stated. Jim McShane (who sells tubes on Audio Asylum) says the following about the JJ 6922 tubes:

http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane/tubes.htm

_"Very Important! I can no longer offer my usual guarantee on JJ E88CC/6922 new production tubes. If you
purchase E88CC/6922 JJ tubes, I guarantee they have been tested as thoroughly as possible and they will
work properly out of the box. I cannot guarantee they won't become noisy or microphonic once installed.
JJ E88CC/6922 are guaranteed for 14 days from the date of purchase, and will only be shipped to US
addresses."_

His guarantee for all of his other tubes is much, much better.


----------



## sridhar3

I've heard a fair amount about the Genalex Gold Lion and the NOS PQ Amperex (Holland) tubes, but does anybody have any experience with the US-made Amperex, the Telefunken or Mullard tubes?


----------



## MacedonianHero

sridhar3 said:


> I've heard a fair amount about the Genalex Gold Lion and the NOS PQ Amperex (Holland) tubes, but does anybody have any experience with the US-made Amperex, the Telefunken or Mullard tubes?




I should have some Mullard (CV2492) and Genalex Gold comparisons by Sunday...ish. I've been so busy this week, just haven't had the time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kwkarth said:


> One thing I seem to be observing is that as the efficiency of a given headphone decreases, the liveliness of the Lyr seems to increase.
> 
> Another thing I seem to be observing is that with high efficiency headphones, the gain structure of the Lyr does not seem to differ much from the Asgard, but as one listens to less efficient headphones, the Asgard seems to flatten out, while the Lyr seems to come to life.
> 
> ...




That's my assumption. The Lyr would work best when pushed harder. So it looks like to me, I'll be using my D7000 with the E9, and HE-4 or something else with the Lyr.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> I should have some Mullard (CV2492) and Genalex Gold comparisons by Sunday...ish. I've been so busy this week, just haven't had the time.


 
   
  Thanks, chief.  Look forward to hearing from you.


----------



## sferic

On the subject of Blue Jeans Cable - and this is not off topic - I run an Apogee Duet DAC and if you email them they'll make you a custom VGA to RCA cable so you can plug it into all kinds of Schiit without using the medusa dongle with it's hair thin wires and adapters to go from phono plug to RCA. Only about $50 and it made a big diff with the Lyr in my rig. Not a huge believer in spending bucks on cables either (Monoprice premiums are stiff cuz they're coax but they sound as good as anything I've ever heard, never have noise problems with them.) but when using the Apogee just for critical listening you really do need something simpler, shorter, and terminating in RCAs. Big plus is you still have the medusa dongle for when you're recording your own music.


----------



## singh

When is the loaner supposed to reach skylab for review ?
   
  Now that my HE6 order has been canceled after 3 months of my payment. ( YEAH head-direct and Their Indian Network sucks ( in terms of customer care and commitment! )
  I will buy the HE6 AFTER i decide an amp for it.


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I see where there have been a few issues with the GL tubes. Odd, I hope it isn't a trend as I have never read anything but good news about the tube. I will say though that there isn't a tube I have had that a few might pop up that would be noisy. That is part of the grading of a tube. I have some SQ Amperex that are very quiet but then they are graded tubes.


 


  I was one of the people that posted about problems with GL.  I ordered matched pairs and one of mine had a very, very obvious low level hiss.  Moderate volume music overtook it but it was definitely there during quieter passages.
   
  Vendor shipped me a new one it arrived today and the hissing is gone.  I'm going to just chalk it up to a bad tube and get these bad boys burned in.


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I have a question. What cables are you guys using when connecting the Lyr to your dac? Do you guys use the rca's that came with the Lyr or did you guys upgrade? I'm not trying to start a war on the philosophy of whether premium cables actually offer better SQ, just trying to see what you guys are using. Thanks.


 


  I run BlueJeans everywhere I care and whatever I find in my epic-box-o-cables where I don't.
   
  Lyrs ships with passable monoprice.


----------



## Wil

oh my. I CANNOT wait for my Lyr to arrive.
   
  I just got my HE5 used (the original, not LE) and it sounds magical through my Darkvoice 336SE. The highs and mids are superlative, although i could use abit more bass impact. I get none of the harsh highs that the HE5 are known for (infact they're smoother than my T1s).
   
  They highs are just so sweet. Not sibilant, nor hot. It sparkles beautifully. The soundstage is slightly wider than the T1 although not as tall and has slightly less depth and focus than the T1s. But they're one pair of uncomfortable headphones though. (Perhaps my noggin is too small?)
   
  If the Lyr provides more grip and bass slam then i'll be a very, very happy camper. Slap in a pair of warm, liquid tubes with abit of a mid-bass hump and boy i'm sure i'd be set for quite a long time to come.


----------



## Skylab

Quote: 





singh said:


> When is the loaner supposed to reach skylab for review ?


 
   
  As of right now, I have not been informed as to when I will get it.  I wouldn't wait around.  Seems from all the user reviews that it's pretty darned good for the money.


----------



## Kremer930

For the last three hours I have had a set of 6N1P tubes in the Lyr.  I really only put them in as I was a little bored and the Lyr was still cool.  The tubes have come from Jason @Schiit and I am guessing that they are the standard issue Valhalla tubes.  But whatever they are, they are now my favourite tubes for the Lyr and my HE6's. 
   
  The stock tubes have great bass but lacked some mid range detail and some top end air.  I then tried a set of Gold lion ECC88's and they lifted the mids and the top end but they seemed to hide the bass slightly compared to the stock tubes.  I put this down to the mids standing taller rather than a loss of bottom end. 
   
  Tonight I have tried the 6N1P tubes and IMO they suit the HE6 because they have wonderfully full bass with great texture and detail but now also have the mid and especially high end detail, sparkle and air that I had been looking for.  To me they have lifted the veil now so that the sound sounds like it is right there with me rather than slightly distant with the prior tube combinations.
   
  Schitt sells the matched Valhalla tube sets for $40 so I would expect that a set of matched 6N1P tubes for the Lyr would be less than this.  For the difference that they have made to my listening....I say that they are as much of a bargain as the Lyr itself.


----------



## LiqTenExp

What brand were the 6N1P, Sovtek, Svetlana?


----------



## Kremer930

I am not really sure as the tubes are still too hot to pull but looking into the case I can see a diamond logo with something inside it.  I can also see a letter K before the diamond logo.  I read that all 6N1P tubes are made in the Voskhod factory regardless of what brand they eventually wear.
   
  Jason will be able to confirm exactly what they are.


----------



## Rope

Sounds like SovTek OTK Russian military.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> For the last three hours I have had a set of 6N1P tubes in the Lyr.  I really only put them in as I was a little bored and the Lyr was still cool.  The tubes have come from Jason @Schiit and I am guessing that they are the standard issue Valhalla tubes.  But whatever they are, they are now my favourite tubes for the Lyr and my HE6's.
> 
> The stock tubes have great bass but lacked some mid range detail and some top end air.  I then tried a set of Gold lion ECC88's and they lifted the mids and the top end but they seemed to hide the bass slightly compared to the stock tubes.  I put this down to the mids standing taller rather than a loss of bottom end.
> 
> ...


 
  Can you please check and see what type of tubes they are Jason is out at Schiit till the 13th


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Interested in the tubes as well, as it sounds like what I'm looking for with the Lyr.

Can anyone confirm that its perhaps the stock tubes adding the noise/hum, and a different pair might remove this?

I wonder if Schiit will take back just the faulty tubes and replace them if that's the case. 

I have recently put in an order for the HE-4. 

If anyone has a spare loaner DAC on the neutral to bright side (perhaps a UDAC2) that they'd be willing to let me borrow until Schiit brings out their DAC, I'd be willing to pay for the shiiping both ways. I wanna see what a non-warm DAC would do with the Lyr but don't wanna splurge on it since I know the Schiit DAC is soon to come.


----------



## blankdisc

Thanks, Kremer930. This is great! I just received Lyr, and my initial impression of the stock tubes is exactly the same as what you described. I really don't want to spend another 100 bucks to get the Gold Lion, because one of the best things about Lyr is the price.  It would be great if the 6N1P you tried is indeed Valhalla's 6N1P, and hopefully Schiit will start sell just a set of that for less than $40.
   
  Mad Lust Envy, just let you know my Lyr is dead silent with HE-4.
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> For the last three hours I have had a set of 6N1P tubes in the Lyr.  I really only put them in as I was a little bored and the Lyr was still cool.  The tubes have come from Jason @Schiit and I am guessing that they are the standard issue Valhalla tubes.  But whatever they are, they are now my favourite tubes for the Lyr and my HE6's.
> 
> The stock tubes have great bass but lacked some mid range detail and some top end air.  I then tried a set of Gold lion ECC88's and they lifted the mids and the top end but they seemed to hide the bass slightly compared to the stock tubes.  I put this down to the mids standing taller rather than a loss of bottom end.
> 
> ...


----------



## blankdisc

Actually this is what Jason's take on Valhalla's 6N1P with Lyr from 6moons' interview. Kremer930, did you noticed any "closed in" compare to the JJ tubes?
   
   "The 6N1P of the Valhalla is a bit fatter but sounds more closed in and runs hotter"


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> Actually this is what Jason's take on Valhalla's 6N1P with Lyr from 6moons' interview. Kremer930, did you noticed any "closed in" compare to the JJ tubes?
> 
> "The 6N1P of the Valhalla is a bit fatter but sounds more closed in and runs hotter"


 
  There are different versions of the 6N1P and they do sound different. Yes the 6N1P will run hotter as it draws twice the current for the heater as a 6DJ8 type. There is also the 6N23P Russian tube that is a direct replacement for the 6DJ8 types, and it can sound very good. I have some Amperex 6DJ8's that are rebranded 6N23P and they are the best sounding of my 150+ NOS 6DJ8 types but I have no idea the Russian manufacture of this particular tube or the vintage. I am glad that I picked up about 20 of these as I have never run across them again.


----------



## MrScary

When I asked Fred at Shiit about the tubes he said this We have not as of yet packaged 6N1P pairs alone for sale. They really have differences in curves/operating points compared to 6922/6DJ8 and much higher filament current, which may lower filament voltage in the Lyr. Therefore, in the strictest engineering sense, we cannot recommend them. When Jason returns next week, we will run a few experiments along those lines."


----------



## pseudohippy

Hmm.... I have a set of the Bugle Boy in my WA2 I might have to test with the Lyr. I dont know much about tubes or rolling but Im pretty sure the Bugle Boy used in my WA2 are a 6922 type tube. Is that correct? I think they are 6dj8 though also. Im a bit confused, but I believe they should definately be safe in the Lyr.
 ​  I also have the stock 6dj8 direct from Woo, is anyone familiar with the stock WA2 tube compared to the bugle boy because in my mind I can barely tell a differene between the bugle boy and the stock wa2 6dj8. Am I hearing blind? The differecne is so small that it could be tolerance levels between two of the same thing.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Hmm.... I have a set of the Bugle Boy in my WA2 I might have to test with the Lyr. I dont know much about tubes or rolling but Im pretty sure the Bugle Boy used in my WA2 are a 6922 type tube. Is that correct? I think they are 6dj8 though also. Im a bit confused, but I believe they should definately be safe in the Lyr.
> ​  I also have the stock 6dj8 direct from Woo, is anyone familiar with the stock WA2 tube compared to the bugle boy because in my mind I can barely tell a differene between the bugle boy and the stock wa2 6dj8. *Am I hearing blind?* The differecne is so small that it could be tolerance levels between two of the same thing.


 
  You just have an under active imagination.


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> When I asked Fred at Shiit about the tubes he said this We have not as of yet packaged 6N1P pairs alone for sale. They really have differences in curves/operating points compared to 6922/6DJ8 and much higher filament current, which may lower filament voltage in the Lyr. Therefore, in the strictest engineering sense, we cannot recommend them. When Jason returns next week, we will run a few experiments along those lines."





Fred replied with this comment

After some conservative misgivings, it turns out that the substitution of 6NP1 for 6DJ8/6922 in the front end of the Lyr is not a problem, despite the difference in filament current.

As soon as Jason and Rina return, we will be making pairs of 6NP1s for tube rolling in the Lyr. They should be on the website for order in a week to 10 days.


Fred


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> When I asked Fred at Shiit about the tubes he said this We have not as of yet packaged 6N1P pairs alone for sale. They really have differences in curves/operating points compared to 6922/6DJ8 and much higher filament current, which may lower filament voltage in the Lyr. Therefore, in the strictest engineering sense, we cannot recommend them. When Jason returns next week, we will run a few experiments along those lines."


 
  Interesting so it is not a regulated filament supply but either an AC or a unregulated DC. I prefer a regulated supply that I can adjust the voltage. That way you can also use the 7DJ8. I like to run tubes around 6 volts, which is within the operational range and you get a little longer life though a little less output but it works fine. I had asked about the 6N1P from Lyr on the Schiit and was told it was fine. But there is no question that the double current draw will bring down the filament voltage if not regulated. The 6N23P would be a good option to try. There is another Russian tube that works and sounds excellent but I can't think of the number right now. It isn't common though.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Interesting so it is not a regulated filament supply but either an AC or a unregulated DC. I prefer a regulated supply that I can adjust the voltage. That way you can also use the 7DJ8. I like to run tubes around 6 volts, which is within the operational range and you get a little longer life though a little less output but it works fine. I had asked about the 6N1P from Lyr on the Schiit and was told it was fine. But there is no question that the double current draw will bring down the filament voltage if not regulated. The 6N23P would be a good option to try. There is another Russian tube that works and sounds excellent but I can't think of the number right now. It isn't common though.




I see myself now with a shelf full of tubes this is worse than opamp's hahahahaha


----------



## jamato8

Yes, but tubes are so beautiful. I have over 3000 in storage and had most all of them in nice clear drawers that I could access in my study area and where I worked on equipment. Now, sadly, they are 8000 miles away in boxes, hopefully aging like fine wine and not getting bloated and gassy. :^)
   
  The 6N23P-EV is the equivalent of a good 6922. They are built well and have a good life with normally over 5,000 hours of use.


----------



## Kremer930

Just pulled a tube.  They are 6H1N-BN (except the final N is written in a mirrored script.  Maybe a Russian character) 86@03
   
  They also say OTK as the brand.  The brand and logo are in blue writing.  The model details are written in more of a silver colour.
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Can you please check and see what type of tubes they are Jason is out at Schiit till the 13th


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> Just pulled a tube.  They are 6H1N-BN (except the final N is written in a mirrored script.  Maybe a Russian character) 86@03
> 
> They also say OTK as the brand.  The brand and logo are in blue writing.  The model details are written in more of a silver colour.






Thanks Man


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Hmm.... I have a set of the Bugle Boy in my WA2 I might have to test with the Lyr. I dont know much about tubes or rolling but Im pretty sure the Bugle Boy used in my WA2 are a 6922 type tube. Is that correct? I think they are 6dj8 though also. Im a bit confused, but I believe they should definately be safe in the Lyr.
> ​  I also have the stock 6dj8 direct from Woo, is anyone familiar with the stock WA2 tube compared to the bugle boy because in my mind I can barely tell a differene between the bugle boy and the stock wa2 6dj8. Am I hearing blind? The differecne is so small that it could be tolerance levels between two of the same thing.


 
  Are they a NOS Bugle Boy or the new ones that are just stamped Bugle Boy? The name was bought and while it had some meaning back in the 50's and 60's, there isn't much attached to it with current production.


----------



## Kremer930

Part of the reason why I hadnt tried those tubes was that I remembered somewhere back that Jason had said that they were a little heavy or some other comment that didnt strike me as a positive improvement over the stock tubes.  That is why I went and bought the Genelex Gold Lions first.  So the extra tubes just sat there...ignored until now.
   
  I didnt notice any real negatives to the sound.  The spacial staging was great but it was more of a sense of a sense of clarity due to the veil being lifted or the space being returned to the instruments and voices that was the biggest improvement.  The bass is also really thick where you find yourself listening to double basses and drums because they sound more realistic than the stock tubes. 
   
  Some times when you make a change to the rig you sit down and try to work out which part is better and which part is worse.  Last night I just sat down and was drawn into the music.
   
  The stock and the Gold lion tubes all get quite/very hot.  I certainly didnt notice any increase in heat over the 4 hours compared to those other combinations.
   
   
  Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> Actually this is what Jason's take on Valhalla's 6N1P with Lyr from 6moons' interview. Kremer930, did you noticed any "closed in" compare to the JJ tubes?
> 
> "The 6N1P of the Valhalla is a bit fatter but sounds more closed in and runs hotter"


----------



## blankdisc

Great! thanks! can't wait for Schiit to put the tubes on their web site. i also got the same email from Fred.



kremer930 said:


> Part of the reason why I hadnt tried those tubes was that I remembered somewhere back that Jason had said that they were a little heavy or some other comment that didnt strike me as a positive improvement over the stock tubes.  That is why I went and bought the Genelex Gold Lions first.  So the extra tubes just sat there...ignored until now.
> 
> I didnt notice any real negatives to the sound.  The spacial staging was great but it was more of a sense of a sense of clarity due to the veil being lifted or the space being returned to the instruments and voices that was the biggest improvement.  The bass is also really thick where you find yourself listening to double basses and drums because they sound more realistic than the stock tubes.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kremer930

I was on the first run pre-order of the Lyr and my original tube had a weird fault where it would screech loudly after 30 mins to and hour.  Jason offered to replace the tubes and I said not to worry as he could throw in a pair of tubes when they ship my DAC order as I had the Gold Lions to use already.  In the end he decided to send me some replacements anyhow and also included the extra 6N1P tubes.  Hence why I didnt rush to use them at the time.
  
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> When I asked Fred at Shiit about the tubes he said this We have not as of yet packaged 6N1P pairs alone for sale. They really have differences in curves/operating points compared to 6922/6DJ8 and much higher filament current, which may lower filament voltage in the Lyr. Therefore, in the strictest engineering sense, we cannot recommend them. When Jason returns next week, we will run a few experiments along those lines."


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Are they a NOS Bugle Boy or the new ones that are just stamped Bugle Boy? The name was bought and while it had some meaning back in the 50's and 60's, there isn't much attached to it with current production.


 
   
  Honestly I dont know. I bought them second hand from the guy I bought the WA2 from. They have a picture of a square guy (cartoonish looking) holding a bugle up as if playing, but the picture is kind of wore off a bit so cant really talk detail. He said they are sort of rare but not really. I didnt get more specifics about them so Im not sure.


----------



## BournePerfect

It seems like this thread title needs to be changed to The Official Schiit Lyr Tube Rolling Thread. Hard to even find many impressions lately if any regarding the Lyr with different headphones/sources etc.  Has anyone paired this with the Pro 900/2900 yet? _Impressions?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_
   
  -Daniel


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Honestly I dont know. I bought them second hand from the guy I bought the WA2 from. They have a picture of a square guy (cartoonish looking) holding a bugle up as if playing, but the picture is kind of wore off a bit so cant really talk detail. He said they are sort of rare but not really. I didnt get more specifics about them so Im not sure.


 

 They are probably real Bugle Boys then. It didn't always mean anything as they were just 6DJ8's stamped with the Bugle Boy but it was cool looking. The early ones are different looking compared to the later ones as the guy with the bugle got more refined later on but the early ones to me, are neat. 
   


  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> It seems like this thread title needs to be changed to The Official Schiit Lyr Tube Rolling Thread. Hard to even find many impressions lately if any regarding the Lyr with different headphones/sources etc.  Has anyone paired this with the Pro 900/2900 yet? _Impressions?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well rolling tubes is what it is about also, since this does directly affect the sound and therefore the outcome of impressions and possible combinations with different headphones.


----------



## BournePerfect

Yeah but almost EVERY post lately has been about tubes...and most of those aren't even in relation on how they sound with the Lyr. Anyway no harm meant. Carry on.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


bourneperfect said:


> Yeah but almost EVERY post lately has been about tubes...and most of those aren't even in relation on how they sound with the Lyr. Anyway no harm meant. Carry on.
> -Daniel


 
  Sure I understand. I like to read impressions of what is being heard also. I really look forward to them.


----------



## gmanRI

Well I consider myself damn lucky! I ordered my Schiit Lyr on a Sunday almost two weeks ago & believe it or not it arrived that same Friday! I pre-ordered the LCD-2's the same day and they arrived today - only 2 weeks from filling out the form on-line. I've had a lot of high-end audio gear over the years and I have to say that already I'm blown away after about 30 minutes of listening! Went to cans as I took a job in another city and bought another, but smaller house and didn't want to drag my speakers, etc., with me. Here's my setup: MacBook Pro 17" (i7 Quad Core) -> DacMagic -> Lyr -> LCD-2. Quickly ripped a few CD's ALAC and wow! Hearing things and subtleties that I have not heard before. Soundstage is huge and open compared to my Ultrasones. My preferences are techno/industrial so that is were I started. Bass is amazing and music is expansive and doesn't seem congested or blurred even on complex and driving analog and electronic synths. Just my 1st reactions so I'll listen some more over the weekend and give a more thought through update.


----------



## USAudio

gmanRI,   Just curious - it might just be the photograph but the power indicator on your Lyr looks blue ... or is it white?


----------



## bertchai

Between LYR and Vahalla,  which one should I get? I like to have the warm sound from tube/Vahalla, but the power of LYR seems to be very attractive.  Any thought please?


----------



## gmanRI

USAudio, good catch! The indicators on the DacMagic are definitely blue, but the Lyr is hard to tell. I give it a more blue-ish white than blue. I know that doesn't help, but it is not vivd blue. Looking closely at it the side before it rounds out at the end is darker than the glowing end so maybe that is what gave it the tint. I'd for all intent and purposes call it white. Hope that helps.


----------



## gmanRI

although i'm so taken with the tube glow i barely noticed the power light


----------



## jronan2

Are you using usb or optical from your macbook to the dacmagic?


----------



## gmanRI

At the moment usb. Need to figure out an optical solution still.


----------



## jronan2

O ok just wondering. What is there to figure out?
   
  BTW thanks for posting the pic and your initial impressions, I was considering running this dac, or the Yulong D100, or Hrt MSII+ when i purchase the Lyr. I don't think I'll wait until Schiit comes out with theirs. Waiting sucks.


----------



## blankdisc

Just got my LYR today. too early to post any impression. Will let it burn in for couple days. There is one thing. It is HOT both in temperature and appearance.  Plus i am sure most of ppl here are far better at writing a good review than i do, so i will just try to stick to what i think that i am good at. I apologize if the photos are choking your internet.


----------



## Kremer930

The Mac will output optical from its headphone jack.  Just put a converter on the optical cable and you are away.  The Mac can then output up to 24/96 via optical and the Dac Magic can then upsample to 192.
   
  Next thing you can do is check out different software like Pure Music etc
  
  Quote: 





gmanri said:


> At the moment usb. Need to figure out an optical solution still.


----------



## Kremer930

Spent the morning listening to a friends Bryston dac and media player connected up to the Lyr and then listening to the HE6.  That set up is spectacular.  So smooth and yet detailed.


----------



## USAudio

Great pics blankdisc, thanks.  I like the low-light photo with the glow from the tubes, orange (internal) and white LEDs.
  Blue LED's used to be the "in" thing but white seems to be what is in fashion now. 
  I used to have a CIAudio VDA-2 DAC with a sharp looking violet/blue LED.  That was a very nice sounding and high-quality DAC for the money BTW.


----------



## jronan2

I can't keep track of everything in this thread theres just too many posts per day so if has been asked i apologize. Blankdisc are those stock tubes? And I don't know anything about cameras or photography but those pictures came out excellent.


----------



## blankdisc

usaudio said:


> Great pics blankdisc, thanks.  I like the low-light photo with the glow from the tubes, orange (internal) and white LEDs.
> Blue LED's used to be the "in" thing but white seems to be what is in fashion now.
> I used to have a CIAudio VDA-2 DAC with a sharp looking violet/blue LED.  That was a very nice sounding and high-quality DAC for the money BTW.




i agree. just the design and build quality of LYR is top notch. If you peek from the top, you can see that they even print signatures on the board. makes you wonder whether Apple has anything to do with it. hehe...


----------



## gmanRI

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> O ok just wondering. What is there to figure out?
> 
> BTW thanks for posting the pic and your initial impressions, I was considering running this dac, or the Yulong D100, or Hrt MSII+ when i purchase the Lyr. I don't think I'll wait until Schiit comes out with theirs. Waiting sucks.


 


  Yes, waiting does suck as I always want to get my gear now. USB to optical is what I haven't figured out yet. Any suggestions would be great.


----------



## fiver

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> Just got my LYR today. too early to post any impression. Will let it burn in for couple days. There is one thing. It is HOT both in temperature and appearance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Nice camera work 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks!


----------



## gmanRI

Quote: 





gmanri said:


> Yes, waiting does suck as I always want to get my gear now. USB to optical is what I haven't figured out yet. Any suggestions would be great.


 

 Boy am I dense ... the MacBook the headphone port is also optical out!


----------



## gmanRI

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> The Mac will output optical from its headphone jack.  Just put a converter on the optical cable and you are away.  The Mac can then output up to 24/96 via optical and the Dac Magic can then upsample to 192.
> 
> Next thing you can do is check out different software like Pure Music etc


 

 thanks! i totally forgot that the mac had that capability!


----------



## gmanRI

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> The Mac will output optical from its headphone jack.  Just put a converter on the optical cable and you are away.  The Mac can then output up to 24/96 via optical and the Dac Magic can then upsample to 192.
> 
> Next thing you can do is check out different software like Pure Music etc


 

 thanks too for the Pure Music recommendation! looks amazing.


----------



## jronan2

Yeah ... lol My bad I thought you knew the headphone jack was optical out . I thought you meant like you didn't find an optical cable yet that you liked. I never tried optical out of my macs but heard it may be better than usb. I really have no knowledge of which is better, and i don't want to run off topic, but hopefully somewhere on this forum you can post your opinion of whether you like optical or usb out of the dacmagic to your mac, I would be very interested in your findings.


----------



## blankdisc

yes, those are stock tubes. I am waiting for Jason to put the 6N1P on sale. Def not planning to roll any other expansive tube. 


jronan2 said:


> I can't keep track of everything in this thread theres just too many posts per day so if has been asked i apologize. Blankdisc are those stock tubes? And I don't know anything about cameras or photography but those pictures came out excellent.


----------



## ThePhoenix924S

A lot of modern notebook PCs and Macbooks have the capability of digital output; either through a dedicated output or a dual-purpose jack for headphone/optical.  I know my VAIO does, but my Audinst is USB only, so I haven't had the opportunity to test mine out yet.  How does the Lyr/DACMagic combination sound from an HD650?  I can't decide if I want to wait for a Schiit DAC or just go ahead and get a "third-party" DAC instead when I order a Lyr later this summer (assuming I go that route of course).


----------



## jamato8

Well the 6N1P should be inexpensive at least. They can be picked up for a few dollars each. Testing is quick so this should be one of the least expensive tubes you can buy for the Lyr. 
   
   
  Are there any more impressions of the bass performance of the Lyr? Well articulated and defined with impact is what I am wondering about in comparison to other well performing amps.


----------



## Kremer930

I personally am going to wait for the Schiit dac. The first model shouldn't be all that far away. I think that Jason gave an expected target date somewhere for that but from my memory it was less than 3 months from now. 

Looking at Schiits experience and accomplishments and especially now the Lyr, how could you not wait?

I was going to buy a M2tech Young to have a play with USB audio but the lure of The Schiit Dac is too strong. The Lyr is a ripper for the money and would still be awesome for twice the price. Makes me wonder what the makers of the first ever stand alone DAC will make now? Drool drool drool ...

As for USB versus optical... I had a quick play on the DAC magic between the two and didn't notice a huge difference. The issue is normally jitter and I didn't put in enough critical listening time. When I asked Jason about USB versus optical, he said something like optical was designed for audio: USB wasn't! They were working on improving USB to something that they were happy with.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I personally am going to wait for the Schiit dac. The first model shouldn't be all that far away. I think that Jason gave an expected target date somewhere for that but from my memory it was less than 3 months from now.
> 
> Looking at Schiits experience and accomplishments and especially now the Lyr, how could you not wait?
> 
> ...


 

 Good idea.  Don't forget that the other half of Shiit is Mike Moffet.  He's the guy who made the Theta DACs.  I just sold my DS Pre Gen III that Mike designed.  When it first came out there was nothing else like it. My unit was a DS Pre Gen I then I updated it to a III.    The Ds Pre is the unit that made digital audio a respectable front end in the audiophile world.   soon afterwards Krell followed with a unit of its own but it couldn't match the musical ability of the DS Pre. That unit was too cold and analytical.   As soon as I walked into the door of Mamaroneck Hi Fi in NY I was stunned by the sound of the PS Pre Gen I and bought the demo unit right on the spot. Every audiophile I knew bought one.  Thing was build like a tank too. He followed it with the Theta Data transport.  I gobbled that up also.  Both units were still going strong and sounded great when I sold them.    So it will be interesting to see what they cook up in terms of a DAC.


----------



## jamato8

With the advent of the Wolfson 8741 and the SABRE 32 Reference audio Dac it will be interesting to see his choice and the resulting sound. Digital is finally, after 30 years, starting to mature a little.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> With the advent of the Wolfson 8741 and the SABRE 32 Reference audio Dac it will be interesting to see his choice and the resulting sound. Digital is finally, after 30 years, starting to mature a little.


 

 OT, but would it be possible to summarize the difference between these two chips in a sentence or two?


----------



## Kremer930

Yes I agree.  The DACs should be as much of a market turner as the Lyr is. 
   
  I dont know too much about DA chips but it seems that the Sabre ES9018 is the pinnacle right now.  I have not heard it as yet but as far as computing power it seems like the best.  The Wolfson 8741 is also the top of the heap.  Some companies seem to have problems toning down their accuracy to maintain  warmth and musicality so you then see the PM range of chips being used.  I hope that Schiit uses the Sabre chips.
   
  I am pretty sure that Schiit will keep it very musical and will avoid oversampling, or should that be upsampling?  I always mix them up.
   
  Jason mentioned future proof so that may imply USB and possible firmware updateable....Cant wait.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





grokit said:


> OT, but would it be possible to summarize the difference between these two chips in a sentence or two?


 
   
  The Wolfson 8741 and the Sabre32 9018?
   
  I'd describe the Wolfson 8741 as having detail, but it seems to be more forgiving of the faults of the source.  I found it a bit warmer and smoother.
   
  The Sabre32 9018 is very much more detailed, but almost ruthlessly so, in so much as that it exposes every flaw in the source.  IMO it's more neutral than the Wolfson, though I wouldn't necessarily describe it as analytical.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not another warm DAC. Ugh, please... the Lyr is already warm.


----------



## Uchiya

Problem.  100hrs after burn-in, static is gone from right channel.  Q701's have become bold, bassy and perfect with the lyr.  However I can't use them for travelling with my portable setup, it's just missing too much.  Is there any portable amp that'll sound close or as good with the LYR; SR-71B or PB-2 perhaps?  Anyone with both desktop and either portable?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Problem.  100hrs after burn-in, static is gone from right channel.  Q701's have become bold, bassy and perfect with the lyr.  However I can't use them for travelling with my portable setup, it's just missing too much.  Is there any portable amp that'll sound close or as good with the LYR; SR-71B or PB-2 perhaps?  Anyone with both desktop and either portable?


 
  I would guess the SR-71B might have a chance of sounding the best of portables, but there's no way any portable will give you 6WRMS @32 ohms with a 40V maximum rail.


----------



## clowkoy

I received my Lyr yesterday, about 1 week after placing my order. 
Is it normal to hear a "pop" on the phones when powering on the unit? I usually keep the cans plugged in all the time. I don't have this with the Asgard. Second, there's a little hum, even with minimum volume, on my SR60 but none on the LCD-2. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> I received my Lyr yesterday, about 1 week after placing my order.
> Is it normal to hear a "pop" on the phones when powering on the unit? I usually keep the cans plugged in all the time. I don't have this with the Asgard. Second, there's a little hum, even with minimum volume, on my SR60 but none on the LCD-2.
> Thanks in advance.


 
  Let it burn in.  Tubes change over time.


----------



## Uchiya

True.  Thought the static would not go away, 80+ hours later, perfect!
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Let it burn in.  Tubes change over time.


----------



## clowkoy

kwkarth said:


> Let it burn in.  Tubes change over time.




Thanks Kwkarth! What about the pop when turning on the unit? It seems like it doesn't have a "soft start" circuit or something. I'm afraid it might damage my phones.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> kwkarth said:
> ...


 
  It shouldn't have a pop on startup. Is it in both channels?


----------



## clowkoy

Yes, but it starts on the left. I would describe it like those small cheap desktop speakers, when you turn on, there's a pop. Or it's like connecting a speaker to a battery.


----------



## Loevhagen

From my time with tube amps it was a fix to use (fine!) sandpaper on the pins of the tube having these artifacts in order to have clean pins and aviod pops and clicks when switching the amp on/off. Might be worth trying.


----------



## clowkoy

Thank you. I've been doing that plus wiping the pins with Deoxit on my WA6 NOS tubes. The tubes that came with the Lyr are new tubes and the pins are very clean so I didn't bother to clean them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mine has a pop when turning it on or off. It scared me enough not to leave my cans plugged in when doing so.

BTW, getting to about 100 hours now and the hum is considerably less audible than before (but still there, and only audible if I have absolutely no sound in the house. Again, just the AC or fan will block out the hum). The hiss is also subsided quite a bit. The tubes have definitely convinced me that they needed burning in.


----------



## ZorgDK

Joining the Lyr club  It sounds great with my HD650, lots of bass and a nice full smooth sound. Very happy with it!

Just wondering about one thing - Is it ok to turn the amp on and off lots of times during a day or is that bad for the tubes?


----------



## jamato8

It would seem then there is some DC offset. I think they said the amp is direct coupled so this could be the case.


----------



## clowkoy

mad lust envy said:


> Mine has a pop when turning it on or off. It scared me enough not to leave my cans plugged in when doing so.
> 
> BTW, getting to about 100 hours now and the hum is considerably less audible than before (but still there, and only audible if I have absolutely no sound in the house. Again, just the AC or fan will block out the hum). The hiss is also subsided quite a bit. The tubes have definitely convinced me that they needed burning in.




Thanks Mad Lust! I think all Lyrs have that pop. Users just probably don't notice it because they don't have the phones on thier heads when they turn on the amp or they plug the phones after turning on the amp.


----------



## MrScary

zorgdk said:


> Joining the Lyr club  It sounds great with my HD650, lots of bass and a nice full smooth sound. Very happy with it!
> 
> Just wondering about one thing - Is it ok to turn the amp on and off lots of times during a day or is that bad for the tubes?




What I do is if I'm going to be away just an hour or so I leave the Lyr on if longer I turn it off, but then it takes awhile to warm up. If its bad for the tubes maybe one of the tube guys can answer that question.


----------



## WNBC

My Valhalla had a pop too when I turned it off, regardless of headphones in the jack.  My Lyr _does not _have a pop and I've rolled the tubes as well so no pop with either set.  Didn't bother me with the Valhalla, was my first tube amp and didn't affect performance.  As in the manual, constant on and off does shorten the life of the tubes but then again the tubes are rated at over 3000 hours so in the end how many hours are we shorting the life?  If we were all so worried about such things I'd probably have to think about every donut and latte I put into my body 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  I think it's safe to leave your amp on or off all day.  When I'm around all day like the weekends I leave the amp on.  During the work week I leave it off and turn it on when I get home.
   
  Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ZorgDK

Ok thanks the info MrScary and WNBC.


----------



## Skylab

Those of you that have a pop, how loud is it?


----------



## mikerobe

So I am not sure how related to the "pop" that is being currently discussed this is.  And if it is a laughably new-to-tubes question, my apologies.
   
  In the past couple weeks I have been noticing almost a "crystal-like" sound as the Lyr powered down.  At first I thought it the LCD-2s were to blame.  Then I had the bright idea to just pull the LCDs out of the headphone jack and, voila!  No sounds. 
   
  Am I hearing my tubes power down?  Is this a common thing?  Just to remind myself of the sound I turned it off with the cans on my head.  When I turned it back on (probably the first time I've turned it on wearing my phones) I heard the pop being discussed.  Even with the volume set at 0, the pop is there.  It sounds like electronics snapping on, not particularly scary (given I'm talking about the same thing).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> Those of you that have a pop, how loud is it?


 


  More like a 'thump'. Literally sounds the same as when turning a cheap set of computer speakers on and off.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is it a distinct pop every time you turn the amp on?  Mine has a pop every time I turn it on, but it's not anywhere loud enough to hurt the headphones.  I normally don't have my headphones on when I turn on the amp because I let it warm up and settle in a few minutes before I start to listen anyway.  The way to do it is to start with your headphones unplugged, turn on the amp, wait a couple minutes for the amp to warm up, then turn the volume to 0, and then plug in your headphones.


----------



## gmanRI

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Yeah ... lol My bad I thought you knew the headphone jack was optical out . I thought you meant like you didn't find an optical cable yet that you liked. I never tried optical out of my macs but heard it may be better than usb. I really have no knowledge of which is better, and i don't want to run off topic, but hopefully somewhere on this forum you can post your opinion of whether you like optical or usb out of the dacmagic to your mac, I would be very interested in your findings.


 

  
  np. i have an optical cable on its was and it should be here tomorrow (thanks Amazon Prime for near instant gratification) so one it arrives I'll find an appropriate place to post my impressions and comparisons.


----------



## USAudio

Just curious - is the Lyr power-on pop/thump louder if you already turned your source on first? 
  Or the same irregardless if the source is on or off?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Just curious - is the Lyr power-on pop/thump louder if you already turned your source on first?
> Or the same irregardless if the source is on or off?


 
  The turn on thump is primarily from the Lyr itself.  Just give it a couple minutes to settle before listening as you would with any tubed equipment.  You could solve the problem by raising the cost of manufacture a bunch by disconnecting the output via relays until it settled out, but being a little patient and exercising common sense seems more reasonable to me.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, none of that sounds like anything to be even remotely concerned about. Almost every portable amp I ever tested had a turn on transient. Because, as Kevin said, no delay relays on any of those, for sure. As long as it.s more like a thump than a pop, and not so loud, no big deal.


----------



## deadie

Quote: 





mikerobe said:


> So I am not sure how related to the "pop" that is being currently discussed this is.  And if it is a laughably new-to-tubes question, my apologies.
> 
> In the past couple weeks I have been noticing almost a "crystal-like" sound as the Lyr powered down.  At first I thought it the LCD-2s were to blame.  Then I had the bright idea to just pull the LCDs out of the headphone jack and, voila!  No sounds.
> 
> Am I hearing my tubes power down?  Is this a common thing?  Just to remind myself of the sound I turned it off with the cans on my head.  When I turned it back on (probably the first time I've turned it on wearing my phones) I heard the pop being discussed.  Even with the volume set at 0, the pop is there.  It sounds like electronics snapping on, not particularly scary (given I'm talking about the same thing).


 

  
  I hear this "crackle" sound too, like when you bunch up cellophane (sp?) paper.  It's only on start up / down if the phones are plugged in.


----------



## pseudohippy

I only have the Lyr and WA2 for tube amps and they both make that sound. Im 99% certain that it is the tubes making those sounds as they warm up shut down. Never heard it on my other amps but both tubes amps sound the same. Talking about the crackle now, not the thump.


----------



## kwkarth

Why are you guys listening to the tubes as they warm up?  Do you expect something different?  Use the tool as it was intended to be used.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah that "crystal" type sound you are describing is the sound of tube filaments heating and cooling. Very normal. Just typical tube behavior.


----------



## pseudohippy

I dont usually but I have before. Typically I click the amp on before I sit down and dont actually get my HP on for another ten minuntes after I select which beauty is going to get plugged in    But I was familiar with what he is referring too. Its something some of us do when it is completely new to us out of curiousity. Hope it doesnt upset you too much lol.


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> The turn on thump is primarily from the Lyr itself.  Just give it a couple minutes to settle before listening as you would with any tubed equipment.  You could solve the problem by raising the cost of manufacture a bunch by disconnecting the output via relays until it settled out, but being a little patient and exercising common sense seems more reasonable to me.


 

  
   


  Quote: 





skylab said:


> Yeah, none of that sounds like anything to be even remotely concerned about. Almost every portable amp I ever tested had a turn on transient. Because, as Kevin said, no delay relays on any of those, for sure. As long as it.s more like a thump than a pop, and not so loud, no big deal.


 


  Thanks again! These posts just answered my question. I guess next time, unplugging the phones before turning on the amp will be part of the ritual in listening to good music.


----------



## jamato8

A small amount of sound is normal. A tube conducts differently when cold and resistance goes up in the tube as it gets heated. This is all part of the way it works, along with expansion and contraction noise. It is normal thermal dynamics and electron flow.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> Thanks again! These posts just answered my question. I guess next time, unplugging the phones before turning on the amp will be part of the ritual in listening to good music.


 
  At least, let's hope it will be a more peaceful experience for you.
   
  Happy Listening!!!


----------



## blankdisc

there is no sound coming out of my Lyr at any time. It might have something do with my old Monster Power Reference PowerCenter which is some kind of Clean Power filter device.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> there is no sound coming out of my Lyr at any time. It might have something do with my old Monster Power Reference PowerCenter which is some kind of Clean Power filter device.


 

 Are you plugged in?  Is the pilot light on?  Are the tubes lit up?


----------



## blankdisc

kwkarth said:


> Are you plugged in?  Is the pilot light on?  Are the tubes lit up?




yes, yes, and yes. again no sound at ANY time.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So what's feeding the Lyr?  Is it on for sure?  What's feeding that, and so on...
 Are you sure that your source is plugged into the INPUT to the Lyr and not the Output?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I THINK he's referring to noise/hiss/hum, or is the Lyr broken? O_O


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I THINK he's referring to noise/hiss/hum, or is the Lyr broken? O_O


 
  Oh, you mean everything's working and still perfectly quiet?  Cool!


----------



## blankdisc

mad lust envy said:


> I THINK he's referring to noise/hiss/hum, or is the Lyr broken? O_O






kwkarth said:


> Oh, you mean everything's working and still perfectly quiet?  Cool!




yes, that's what i meant. Lyr only makes my HE-6 sing. itself remains silent.


----------



## sferic

First shipment Lyr. I've always turned it on 20 min or so before I was going to listen, and have never turned it off with phones on my head. So this was an interesting topic. I've had it on for awhile, so maybe that negates any experience that I have to offer, but here's what happened when I turned it on & off a few times just now. On Power Off, the volume fades to zero for about 1.5 seconds, then about a half-second more of sound, then silent. That half-second "last gasp" is definitely interesting & weird, but no thump. On Power back on, the sound just starts up about 1/2 second after flipping the switch, no transients, thumps or anything. LCD-2's plugged in at the moment, running the Gold Lion tubes.
   
  I've heard amps thump on startup in my day (thinking Pioneer receivers in the early 80's), maybe it does from cold start up, but I'd never have the phones on my head for a cold start up. I read from Little Dot you should never power up/down without phones attached, and I accept that you need a warm up period cuz I remember when you couldn't drive a car without letting it warm up.
   
  Is this really considered a problem? I mean, Windows XP takes like 10 minutes to boot up  The Lyr is, bottom line, awesome. If it were born in period of economic prosperity it would cost a LOT more. These Schiit guys are working in the world we have right now, and doing it beautifully and with integrity IMO.


----------



## jamato8

Yes, from everything I have read, Schiit has produced a nice amp. When I was a radioman, all we had was tube equipment. You always had to allow some warm up time before you could even use the equipment. This could range from 30 seconds to a few minutes. Even the encryption gear needed time to settle and was reliable for a while as it would drift. With everything tube, even after everything had settled I would still have to retune and adjust, especially the SRT 101, which was a 6 foot high transmitter. When sending out code, I often had to keep adjusting the BFO due to drift. With the Lyr you aren't going to face these sometimes major thermal changes this and that is appreciated. It's all good. Waiting now for the next batch. :^)


----------



## Bobcow

Should be pulling the trigger on one of these tomorrow hopefully, sounds like Schiit have done an amazing job at making some affordable high end amps. I noticed on their website that they are in back-order again, I guess they still haven't caught up with demand yet.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





bobcow said:


> Should be pulling the trigger on one of these tomorrow hopefully, sounds like Schiit have done an amazing job at making some affordable high end amps. I noticed on their website that they are in back-order again, I guess they still haven't caught up with demand yet.


 
  They mentioned they will be shipping at the end of this month.


----------



## clowkoy

I ordered mine on April 3 and was shipped on the 6th. I think mine is already from the second batch.
I just got an email from Jason. He said the pop is totally normal. They were able to eliminate it on the Asgard but not completely on the Lyr.
Hope this helps.


----------



## Uchiya

My Lyr and the DT880's (600ohm) w/V2 Jmoney pads - Whoa...serious bass, I don't miss the LCD-2 at all.


----------



## Misterrogers

I'm driving my DT990/600's with Lyr and loving it. What sort of impact did the JMoney pads have on the sound of your 880's?


----------



## Uchiya

Closed the sound stage a bit, giving more emphasis to the bass and smoothing out the treble; feeling the low notes from my Enya music rumble in my chest as it thumps with some impressive force.  I just hope it does the same when my PB-2 arrives, or maybe close to it.  No bloat by the way, very tight, very clean.


----------



## Misterrogers

Nice. Just ordered some JMoney's for my Denons. I noted the pads for Beyers. Gonna have to queue up that purchase. Do you find them comfortable (last 'off topic' question )?


----------



## Uchiya

Comfort?  They're like leather pillows, lol.  On the DT880's at least.


----------



## petitrouge

Quote: 





clowkoy said:


> I just got an email from Jason. He said the pop is totally normal. They were able to eliminate it on the Asgard but not completely on the Lyr.
> Hope this helps.


 

 Hi
   
  here is the answer from Fred about my questions:
   
  Hi Jason,
 i have a Question about my new Lyr:
 Did the Lyr have a start-delay?
  Yes -- about 10-15 seconds for the tubes to warm up.

 My phones make a very hard "plopp" when i get start it.
  Some warm-up thump is normal

 My second Problem is a very minimal "brumm" i heard. Is this normal?
  The Lyr is high gain -- you may hear minor background noises according to the gain
 of your headphones.

 Is this addicted by the tubes?
  To some extent -- unless the tubes are defective where they can hum
   
   
   
  The hum that i hear is also current when no Phone is in the Lyr
   
  I've never have a amp with those trials like the Lyr......
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I like the design and power but the hum make me melancholy about this...
   
  No other room no other cable or else make that the Lyr is still.....
   
  Have fun with your Lyr so it is still and have no other problems!
  I love that amp but it makes my heart sank.....
   
  Sorry for my bad english
   
  Greets Jens


----------



## WNBC

Hi Petitrouge, so you hear a hum or noise from your amp?  Do you have anything else plugged into the same outlet / power strip as the AMP?  Your experience is different than mine.  Mine is pretty much silent or so quiet I haven't noticed it even in a quiet room.  Does anybody else hear a hum from the Lyr, not a hum from the headphone which can be expected as one increases the gain.  My past Valhalla was pretty silent too.  Maybe I'm reading the original post wrong.
   
   
  Quote: 





petitrouge said:


> The hum that i hear is also current when no Phone is in the Lyr
> 
> I've never have a amp with those trials like the Lyr......


----------



## petitrouge

Yes!
   
  I hear a silent hum from my amp and when i put a phone in it i hear it also...
  There is no other power strip inside.
   
   
  Greets Jens


----------



## MrScary

wnbc said:


> Hi Petitrouge, so you hear a hum or noise from your amp?  Do you have anything else plugged into the same outlet / power strip as the AMP?  Your experience is different than mine.  Mine is pretty much silent or so quiet I haven't noticed it even in a quiet room.  Does anybody else hear a hum from the Lyr, not a hum from the headphone which can be expected as one increases the gain.  My past Valhalla was pretty silent too.  Maybe I'm reading the original post wrong.





I hear no Hum with my HD650's but I will be getting some LCD-2's so we will see I do not hear any hum without any headphones plugged in Im running the Gold lion tubes.


----------



## petitrouge

I've ordered other tubes bei TAD. http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/de/shop_TAD_Premium_Tubes_TAD_Vorstufenroehren_SELECTED/6922_E88CC_TAD_Premium_Selected_symmetrisch_ba_550
  But i don't think that its the way to clear this.
  If all else fails i send the lyr back to Jason in the hope for a new where is still
   
  Greets Jens


----------



## USAudio

I feel bad for you guys with hum/hiss issues, my Lyr has proven to be completely silent.
  That's with the Lyr at full volume, with the source on or off, with LCD-2's or HD800's. 
  I don't know if I just got lucky, have inherently less noise or DC on my power lines or it's my power conditioner.
  FYI - My power conditioner is an APC H15, which in now going for only $200 USD, and is a great value IMHO for what it all does. 
  It offers "protection from blackouts, voltage sags & swells, electrical noise interference and damaging power transients":
  http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=h15&tab=features
   
  From what posts I've read on the issue it doesn't appear generally be a tube issue?  Has anyone addressed perhaps DC on the AC line?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because you are using hard to drive headphones. Use sensitive headphones with no ambient sound. You will note the difference from plugging them in and then unplugging them.

I call BS from those who say its dead silent with their easy to drive cans with NO ambient noise where they are listening.

Like I said, just a fan or a/c is enough to cancel the Lyr's noise. Again, absolutely no sound around you.

I have burned mine in for well over 120 hours and it has definitely almost quieted down to almost no sound except some hum and very little noise. I'm sure if I used some HD800s or something similar, it'd be silent.


----------



## LiqTenExp

how much time do you guys spend listening to your Lyr like this vs. using it with music?  JK
   
  I am guessing it is sensitive to crappy power.  I have a very old house that the electrical was just redone in.  When I get to turn mine of the first time saturday I will report in on what I hear.  I have a decent digital o-scope, dmm, etc at home so if I have a hum I will be able to measure any less than ideal noise on it from circuit to circuit in my house and see if it translates into a relative change in the noise on the amp.
   
  would be a simple test using both channels on the oscope.  This only investigates noise being conducted into the signal path.
   
  This other noise of just the unit humming, who cares?


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's because you are using hard to drive headphones. Use sensitive headphones with no ambient sound. You will note the difference from plugging them in and then unplugging them.
> 
> I call BS from those who say its dead silent with their easy to drive cans with NO ambient noise where they are listening.
> 
> ...


 
 My mistake, I thought some folks with HD800's and LCD-2's were also complaining about hum and noise.


----------



## jronan2

Would upgrading the power cord have anything to do with eliminating the unwanted his/hum?


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


jronan2 said:


> Would upgrading the power cord have anything to do with eliminating the unwanted his/hum?


 
  I doubt it.


----------



## LiqTenExp

no. wires are wires.  if it is being noise is being injected at the outlet it will pass through any kind of voodoo magic wire or the stock cable.
   
  If i is RF interference it will go through a non shielded cable but be block via a shielded cable.  Only issue is the amp is not EMI shielded and will just enter at any point it chooses.  Lets say perhaps the back of the IEC power connector?  Therefore making the person with the 500 dollar power cable on their 450 dollar amp realize how free space RF will propagate into all those nice little openings on most equipment to let air circulate over the hot parts.  
   
  i can see the next mod, shielded power cable and a Faraday cage provided by some boutique vendor


----------



## WNBC

I actually thought Petitrouge was talking about a hum from the amp itself not what's coming through the headphone jack due to his statement....
   
*"The hum that i hear is also current when no Phone is in the Lyr*"
   
  He does talk about hiss through the jack but yes that's dependent on the phones and recording.  That's normal.
   
  EDIT:  Nevermind, never wait to post, you guys got it covered now


----------



## jamato8

The transformer for a tube amp can hum, as in audible from the amp and not phones and will do more of this if there is DC on the AC coming into the amp. Some areas are more prone to this than others. I used to have horrible AC and noticed the transformer outside my house from the main line hummed like crazy, so much so that I could hear it inside my listening room. I complained a few times and they finally came out and agreed it needed to be replaced. So I got a huge upgrade to my line. A quiet new transformer and a very quiet AC line. In that case the transformer was bad, in others, there can be a bunch of junk on the line and especially so if you are near an industrial area with a lot of injected noise onto the AC.


----------



## LiqTenExp

transformers hum depending on quality, what kind of hum are we talking about here?  60 Hz? higher in freq?


----------



## LiqTenExp

ah beat me to it!!!


----------



## clowkoy

Okay, I'm returning my Lyr. It has almost 100 hrs on it and the hum is still there (on sensitive, low-impedance headphones), not to mention the loud thump/pop when turning on the amp. I have an Asgard and a WA-6 and they're both quiet. You might say that these are only minor issues, but how come they're not able to do something about it?


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> The transformer for a tube amp can hum, as in audible from the amp and not phones and will do more of this if there is DC on the AC coming into the amp. Some areas are more prone to this than others. I used to have horrible AC and noticed the transformer outside my house from the main line hummed like crazy, so much so that I could hear it inside my listening room. I complained a few times and they finally came out and agreed it needed to be replaced. So I got a huge upgrade to my line. A quiet new transformer and a very quiet AC line. In that case the transformer was bad, in others, there can be a bunch of junk on the line and especially so if you are near an industrial area with a lot of injected noise onto the AC.


 

 Were you the first house off that pole transformer?  That's the best house to get good clean current from.  When ever I went house shopping first thing I looked for was if the house was the first one off the transformer.  Good move requesting a new pole transformer!


----------



## Yuceka

I am using my Lyr with LCD-2 and HifiMan HE-5 and I hear no hum or any other noise whatsoever. Am I... deaf?


----------



## Skylab

The HE-5 is a low-sensitivity headphone. You're much less likely to hear hum through it than you would through a high-sensitivity headphone. With my Decware Mini-Torii, I hear no hum through the HE-6 and LCD-2. I also hear no hum with high impedance headphones like the T-1 and HD-800. But with headphones that are high sensitivity and low impedance, I can hear a little hum. Given the gain and power of the amp, it's not such a surprise. Same with the Lyr.


----------



## Rope

I hear a slight hum when employing Denon D5000, quiet, no signal, which is volume relative, none with K701.  I don't consider the hum with the Denon's a deal breaker, since it's only audible with no music signal.  The Lyr powered up with no phones connected is dead silent.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

skylab said:


> The HE-5 is a low-sensitivity headphone. You're much less likely to hear hum through it than you would through a high-sensitivity headphone. With my Decware Mini-Torii, I hear no hum through the HE-6 and LCD-2. I also hear no hum with high impedance headphones like the T-1 and HD-800. But with headphones that are high sensitivity and low impedance, I can hear a little hum. Given the gain and power of the amp, it's not such a surprise. Same with the Lyr.




That's what I been trying to say. I'm using the D7000 which is high sensitivity and low impedance, and the hum is just barely audible now. When playing any music, there's nothing there.

People expect magic from tubes, and honestly shouldn't be compared to SS amps in terms of noise. 

What are we listening to, music, or the amp? Seriously. :rolleyes:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My HE-4 has been shipped, so I will hopefully get it by next week. I'll be very surprised if I hear anything from HE-4.


----------



## clowkoy

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The HE-5 is a low-sensitivity headphone. You're much less likely to hear hum through it than you would through a high-sensitivity headphone. With my Decware Mini-Torii, I hear no hum through the HE-6 and LCD-2. I also hear no hum with high impedance headphones like the T-1 and HD-800. But with headphones that are high sensitivity and low impedance, I can hear a little hum. Given the gain and power of the amp, it's not such a surprise. Same with the Lyr.


 

  
  May I know what other high-end amps produce hum with high-sensitivity headphones?


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





skylab said:


> The HE-5 is a low-sensitivity headphone. You're much less likely to hear hum through it than you would through a high-sensitivity headphone. With my Decware Mini-Torii, I hear no hum through the HE-6 and LCD-2. I also hear no hum with high impedance headphones like the T-1 and HD-800. But with headphones that are high sensitivity and low impedance, I can hear a little hum. Given the gain and power of the amp, it's not such a surprise. Same with the Lyr.


 


  Skylab you get to compare the Concerto with the Lyr by the way?  Not sure if I missed something somewhere I saw I had missed 490 posts in this thread.


----------



## MacedonianHero

ninjikiran said:


> Skylab you get to compare the Concerto with the Lyr by the way?  Not sure if I missed something somewhere I saw I had missed 490 posts in this thread.




I don't think Rob has the Lyr yet (or the Concerto anymore).

I can say that with my LCD-2s and HE-6s, the Lyr is one phenomenal amp and powers them both effortlessly. Both orthos benefit from 4 Watts into 50 ohms. Even though the LCD-2s can sound quite good from the Concerto, they do really kick it up a notch with the Lyr. The HE-6s are serviceable with the Concerto, but incredible with the Lyr. I hear ZERO hum with my LCD-2s, HE-6s, HD800s, or T1s.

My Edition 8LEs though are much better with the Concerto. Better defined bass, control and resolution. Heck, my IEMs sound great from my Concerto on Low Gain. I do hear a slight hum with the Lyr + Ed. 8LEs.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Skylab

Yeah, no Lyr yet here, but soon, I'm told.

Won't be able to offer much of a comparison to the Concerto, since mine is gone, but in any case the Concerto is discontinued.


----------



## HK_sends

macedonianhero said:


> I can say that with my LCD-2s and HE-6s, the Lyr is one phenomenal amp and powers them both effortlessly. Both orthos benefit from 4 Watts into 50 ohms. Even though the LCD-2s can sound quite good from the Concerto, they do really kick it up a notch with the Lyr. The HE-6s are serviceable with the Concerto, but incredible with the Lyr. I hear ZERO hum with my LCD-2s, HE-6s, HD800s, or T1s.




Have you tried your Genelex Tubes in the Lyr yet? I am curious what your impressions are.

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

hk_sends said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > I can say that with my LCD-2s and HE-6s, the Lyr is one phenomenal amp and powers them both effortlessly. Both orthos benefit from 4 Watts into 50 ohms. Even though the LCD-2s can sound quite good from the Concerto, they do really kick it up a notch with the Lyr. The HE-6s are serviceable with the Concerto, but incredible with the Lyr. I hear ZERO hum with my LCD-2s, HE-6s, HD800s, or T1s.
> ...




Since Day 1 actually. I started with the JJ tubes...I have used them on my WA2 and thought them a bit dry and unmoving. They are not "ideal" 6922 tubes. The Genalex Gold Lions are more musical with better definition and sound staging. No reason to go back to the stock tubes. I was meaning to try my CV2492 (6922 variant) Mullards, but haven't got around to it.


----------



## HK_sends

macedonianhero said:


> Since Day 1 actually. I started with the JJ tubes...I have used them on my WA2 and thought them a bit dry and unmoving. They are not "ideal" 6922 tubes. The Genalex Gold Lions are more musical with better definition and sound staging. No reason to go back to the stock tubes. I was meaning to try my CV2492 (6922 variant) Mullards, but haven't got around to it.




That's good to hear...I just ordered a set for myself. 

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

hk_sends said:


> macedonianhero said:
> 
> 
> > Since Day 1 actually. I started with the JJ tubes...I have used them on my WA2 and thought them a bit dry and unmoving. They are not "ideal" 6922 tubes. The Genalex Gold Lions are more musical with better definition and sound staging. No reason to go back to the stock tubes. I was meaning to try my CV2492 (6922 variant) Mullards, but haven't got around to it.
> ...




They are among my favourite 6922 tube (along with the Amperex and Mullards). Amazing that a new issue tube can sound as good as some of the legendary NOS tubes. Enjoy.


----------



## jamato8

There is no reason a new tube shouldn't sound as good. What has been missing is the expertise and the true understanding of the metallurgy that made up the fine tubes. While it may seem obvious that this was missing, I wonder how much of a drive there was to discover this process again, as evidenced by some pretty poor sounding tubes of some current manufactures. That an advance has been made, is welcome. I would like to know now how they will hold up but only time of course.


----------



## jronan2

I just ordered the Lyr. This will be my first experience with tubes. Do you think I should leave the stock ones in first and see how i like it or not waste my time and go with a set that has some popularity on here like say the Gold Lion E88CC?


----------



## HK_sends

jronan2 said:


> I just ordered the Lyr. This will be my first experience with tubes. Do you think I should leave the stock ones in first and see how i like it or not waste my time and go with a set that has some popularity on here like say the Gold Lion E88CC?




The economical answer is "use the stock ones for a while". Plus, you'll have the added benefit of getting an idea what the amp sounds like stock so, when you do spring for some different tubes, you'll have a basis for comparison. That's what I am doing...I've been using the stock tubes since I got the Lyr last month...so when I roll in the Gold Lions, I should be able to readily tell whether the sound has improved for me, and which tubes I'll keep in the Lyr (after proper burn-in, of course).

Just my humble opinion...

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I just ordered the Lyr. This will be my first experience with tubes. Do you think I should leave the stock ones in first and see how i like it or not waste my time and go with a set that has some popularity on here like say the Gold Lion E88CC?


 
 I agree with HK, stick with the stock tubes for awhile.  I find them quiet, neutral and detailed.  If you're looking for something different then roll some other tubes later but I've been perfectly happy with the stock tubes so far.


----------



## jronan2

Yeah that's what i kind of figured would be the best choice. i should get a feeling for the "stock sound" so I have a basis of what to compare it to if i ever decide to change tubes. Hopefully I get in a week or two I didn't notice they went back into back order mode.


----------



## FrimanizzlE

Hi everyone.
   
  My first post here. Have been reading along for some time, but thought it would be time too give my contribution aswell...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  First of all, my rig is Logitech Transporter => Schiit Lyr => Denon AH-D2000.
   
  I got my Lyr a few weeks ago, and I´m VERY pleased with it! It has now been playing for about 50h and I feel that the biggest changes/burn in has been done. The first 20-30h was with the stock tubes, but I then rolled for the GL (purchased cos of the good feedbacks "in here") and the amp got a hell of a lot better!!! Mids are now much more present and smooth, and the highs are a little less "grainer". Lows are still remarkable and super thight, but maybe just a tiny bit ressesed compared to the stock JJ, witch is positive from my perspective.
  But that actually isnt the biggest upgrade with the GL. The "real deal" is, that it now has got that "tube-thing" thats hard to discribe. The coherence and the "musicality", that only good tubes posses, and that you know you´ve got WHEN you´ve got it. It all just falls into place, and you cant help tapping your feet....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  About the hum-issue. I´ve got a very low 50-60Hz humm so I guees it´s related to my installation and other equiipment nereby. It is only audible when quiet in the room and no music, so I dont feel its a problem. I will check the fase of all my components in the powerbar, and see if it helps, but havent got the time yet, and as it dosent really bother me, there is no hurry.
  It maybe so, that I cant get rit of it at all with the D2000, cos of their high sensitivity and low impedance. Should that be the case, then so be it. Not really a problem, cos the humm is very low. I´ve shortly tried a pair of Sennheiser HD600, and you really had to focus hard, and have absolutely silence in the room to here a tiny faint humm, so its surely related to the D2000 electrical characteristics.
   
  Anyway, thanks for all the earlier impressions in the thread. They have really been usefull....


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I just ordered the Lyr. This will be my first experience with tubes. Do you think I should leave the stock ones in first and see how i like it or not waste my time and go with a set that has some popularity on here like say the Gold Lion E88CC?


 

 I quite liked the Gold Lions.  They are certainly brighter sounding with more forward midrange, slightly more top end sparkle and tighter more defined bass but IMO given the cost and the fact that they are my clear favourites out of stock tubes, Gold Lions and the Sovtek 6H1N, I would definitely suggest a pair of 6H1N's as part of the library.  The Gold Lions are around $100 a pair whereas the Sovteks are only $20 a pair approx.  On my HE6 they maintain the qualities of the Gold Lions but also add more transparency to the whole spectrum plus give the bass a bit more thunder.  $20 well spent.


----------



## HK_sends

frimanizzle said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> My first post here. Have been reading along for some time, but thought it would be time too give my contribution aswell...




Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet...

Those are great impressions! I do wonder if the slightly recessed bass sound might be because the mids are brought more forward so the bass isn't the most prominent aspect of the sound anymore? Please keep us informed on any more changes to the sound as the Gold Lions burn-in more.

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## HK_sends

kremer930 said:


> I quite liked the Gold Lions.  They are certainly brighter sounding with more forward midrange, slightly more top end sparkle and tighter more defined bass but IMO given the cost and the fact that they are my clear favourites out of stock tubes, Gold Lions and the Sovtek 6H1N, I would definitely suggest a pair of 6H1N's as part of the library.  The Gold Lions are around $100 a pair whereas the Sovteks are only $20 a pair approx.  On my HE6 they maintain the qualities of the Gold Lions but also add more transparency to the whole spectrum plus give the bass a bit more thunder.  $20 well spent.




Thanks for the info! I will definitely look into the Sovtek tubes...

Cheers!
-HK sends


----------



## Kremer930

I cant remember how many hours I got to on my Gold Lions but probably up near the 40 plus.  I also found that the wonderful thick bass of the stock tubes took a back seat to the mids of the Gold Lions.  At the time I wasnt sure if the bass had been recessed or was no longer standing so proud since the mids had been elevated to neutral, as opposed to recessed initially.
   
  Since changing to the Sovteks I personally feel that I have maintained the mid range detail and texture of the Lions but now also get to hear the full strength and musicality of the bass instruments.
  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## FrimanizzlE

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks! And about the wallet-thing, then its been heavily drained over the past 20 years with hifi, so nothing new there. Though with serious head-fi I´m rather new. Bought my first real setup (amp and phones) about half a year ago, and then it has just gone on and on.... But the past 20 years with hifi (past 10 with higher end) has tought me a thing or 2, and I do know what I like and how things should sound...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And you are certainly right about the recessed bass, cos of the more open and forward mids. But it´s all in a positive way. You could say, that it´s more balanced overall in context to the stock tubes.
  It was sayed earlier that the stock JJ tubes are not really hifi/high end tubes, and I very much agree. Its not that the more open and balanced presentation with the GL´s isnt appreciated, but its more that the overall presentation of the music thats on a much higher level IMHO.
  So its an upgrade on a larger scale, rather than just to pin out impressions of bass, mids, highs, dynamics, soundstage, on and on and on...
   
  But I will return with further info as the GL´s burn in progresses, although i feel that the largest improvements already are audible... Time will tell....


----------



## FrimanizzlE

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I cant remember how many hours I got to on my Gold Lions but probably up near the 40 plus.  I also found that the wonderful thick bass of the stock tubes took a back seat to the mids of the Gold Lions.  At the time I wasnt sure if the bass had been recessed or was no longer standing so proud since the mids had been elevated to neutral, as opposed to recessed initially.
> 
> Since changing to the Sovteks I personally feel that I have maintained the mid range detail and texture of the Lions but now also get to hear the full strength and musicality of the bass instruments.


 

 Which cans are your opinions based on?
   
  Mine are with the D2000 and I certainly dont miss any output in the low-end, as they are pretty bass-heavy. The Lyr is actually the first amp I´ve heard, that could bring some tonal balance in to them. Almost any amp can drive them to high output levels, but none I´ve heard so far has been able to "tame them", and make them sing on such a highly coherent and musical level. Clearly audible in the dynamics, as they dont drown in bass anymore...


----------



## Kremer930

Hi Sorry.  I have used my HE6 almost entirely.  I tested my K702's and they step up significantly using the Lyr but the HE6 is a whole new level.  I would love the Lyr K702 combo if I had never heard the HE6...but the damage is already done....there is no going back.
   
  The stock tubes do burn in and change to develop a little more tightness but definitely more top end detail and sparkle but they dont really come up to the same levels as the Gold Lions.  I never expected the Sovteks to be any good at all.  Jason sent them to me for free as my original stock tubes were a little suspect.  I told him not to bother as I said that I would prefer to have his first pre-order DAC...but he sent me the tubes anyhow....  Dohh!!
   
  Anyhow.  One day I got bored and pulled the Lions and put in the Sovteks.  The Lions have been back in once but back out again.  Cant believe that I am using cheap tubes.
   
  Last weekend I had a play with the Lyr and the HE6 hooked up to a $5k Bryston media player and DAC and the Lyr was putting out sounds that were way beyond what you would ever expect.  It was a massive step up from my Cambridge DacMagic.  But it does show that the Lyr and Sovteks are capable of some seriously quality sound.
   
  I have to pinch myself when I think of how cheap the Lyr is.  Jason and the Schiit team are legends!!
  
  Quote: 





frimanizzle said:


> Which cans are your opinions based on?
> 
> Mine are with the D2000 and I certainly dont miss any output in the low-end, as they are pretty bass-heavy. The Lyr is actually the first amp I´ve heard, that could bring some tonal balance in to them. Almost any amp can drive them to high output levels, but none I´ve heard so far has been able to "tame them", and make them sing on such a highly coherent and musical level. Clearly audible in the dynamics, as they dont drown in bass anymore...


----------



## Misterrogers

Where might be a good place to buy the Sovtek 6H1N in the US?


----------



## Kremer930

Just in case people are wanting to know details of the tubes that I love.  This was them.  Someone soon after said that they sound like Sovteks.

  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Just pulled a tube.  They are 6H1N-BN (except the final N is written in a mirrored script.  Maybe a Russian character) 86@03
> 
> They also say OTK as the brand.  The brand and logo are in blue writing.  The model details are written in more of a silver colour.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Where might be a good place to buy the Sovtek 6H1N in the US?


 


  Also interested in this...haven't really found anywhere yet


----------



## achl354

are those OTK tubes these ones?


----------



## jamato8

OTK is the stamp used for military tubes, it isn't the manufacture. 
   
  The best 6N1P tubes are from the mid sixties. The plates are black and flat vs the grey plates and different shape of the later tubes. The mid sixties tubes are hard to find though. Millions of the 6N1P were produced so it is common for them to cost 1 or 2 dollars. I have bulk ones from the mid sixties and they and all that I have tested out of the 120, test very good and very well balanced. They are a very hardy tube and can be run hot. When biased on the high side, they sound even better. They are a tank of a tube.


----------



## WNBC

Accurate description, I also replaced the stock tubes in the Lyr with the Gold Lions and have the same experience as you with my HE-4.  The Sovteks sound like a reasonably priced set of tubes worth trying out.  Thanks for the tip.  Keep those tube suggestions coming, from cheap to expensive.  Many of us new to tube rolling find it useful.  At $100 for the pair of Gold Lions, I think that's my price set point for tubes.  _Can more expensive tubes (seen some go for $150 per tube) make that much of a difference in a system?_  Unlike headphones that we buy new and can return if we don't like the sound, it's probably harder to return tubes once we insert them into our amps and start the burn-in process.   

  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I quite liked the Gold Lions.  They are certainly brighter sounding with more forward midrange, slightly more top end sparkle and tighter more defined bass but IMO given the cost and the fact that they are my clear favourites out of stock tubes, Gold Lions and the Sovtek 6H1N, I would definitely suggest a pair of 6H1N's as part of the library.  The Gold Lions are around $100 a pair whereas the Sovteks are only $20 a pair approx.  On my HE6 they maintain the qualities of the Gold Lions but also add more transparency to the whole spectrum plus give the bass a bit more thunder.  $20 well spent.


----------



## jronan2

I would also like tube suggestions to keep coming. Maybe a separate thread for tube rolling on the Lyr would be appropriate since the amp is becoming so popular on here and numerous people are commenting on the amp everyday, maybe it would help not making every thread so big.
   
  Anyway I think around a $100 for upgraded tubes is probably my price point also, I can't see myself spending more than that for a $450 amp. I ordered the Lyr 2 nights ago I wonder how long the second round of back orders will take...


----------



## MrScary

jronan2 said:


> I would also like tube suggestions to keep coming. Maybe a separate thread for tube rolling on the Lyr would be appropriate since the amp is becoming so popular on here and numerous people are commenting on the amp everyday, maybe it would help not making every thread so big.
> 
> Anyway I think around a $100 for upgraded tubes is probably my price point also, I can't see myself spending more than that for a $450 amp. I ordered the Lyr 2 nights ago I wonder how long the second round of back orders will take...





Tube rolling thread would be a great idea Im running the Gold lions with my LCD-2's and it sounds great but hahaha I still want to roll


----------



## Loevhagen

Your wish is my command: Schiit Lyr - The tube rolling thread


----------



## RatFarm

I can't take any more of this schiit. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  (I feel better now)


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  Sorry to be gone for so long, but things wouldn't be good if I ignored my 10th wedding anniversary!
   
  Some brief news:
   
  1. Lyr should be shipping again at the end of the month. Hopefully this will get us into a long-term stocking situation. I hope.
  2. We've added the 6N1P tube sets for Lyr to the site for $20. 
   
  That's about it for the moment. Expect the next big announcement in June. 
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> Sorry to be gone for so long, but things wouldn't be good if I ignored my 10th wedding anniversary!
> All the best,
> Jason


 
  Welcome back Jason!  Happy Anniversary!  Many more to come!!!
  We just celebrated our 37th anniversary yesterday.


----------



## Loevhagen

Happy anniversary and welcome back to work.  Sitting here in Norway just waiting on my ordered new Lyr. Anniversary? I guess that outnumbers my waiting time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it silly for me to say that I REALLY like the sound of the KSC75 off the Lyr?

Which tubes are the 6N1P? They're not the stock ones right? What's the sound sig compared to stock?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Is it silly for me to say that I REALLY like the sound of the KSC75 off the Lyr?
> 
> Which tubes are the 6N1P? They're not the stock ones right? What's the sound sig compared to stock?


 

 Not silly at all.  You like what you like.
   
  The 6N1P are the stock Valhalla tubes.


----------



## Rope

Jason -
   
  Congrats on your 10th wedding anniversary!
   
  Are the 6N1P tubes offered on you website Russian Tubes made in Voskhod, also known as the Russian Rocket?
   
  Any information would be appreciated, thanks.


----------



## jamato8

The Rocket tubes are made in Voskhod and will have the rocket on the bottle. 
   
  I have an order in and some good tubes flying in.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





kingstyles said:


> No. That why I think its a great deal. For the price of the lyr, its hard to find fault in it. This one had stock tubes and was only a few days old, so there is a possibility it will get even better with burn in and you can try rolling the tubes to try to get better clarity and detail. I find most stock tubes suck so there is room for improvement for sure with tube rolling.


 

 The Lyr definitely gets better with burn in.  My experience with the Lyr + the HE-6 with my setup is that the Lyr really starts to get very interesting after the 60 hour mark.


----------



## LiqTenExp

Quick comparison of another budget amp with some decent power.....
   
  Lyr vs. NFB-12
   
  Setup: Foobar2k, FLAC files, USB to NFB-12 DAC, Lyr connected to NFB-12 analog out
   
  Lyr sounds less congested across the board,  mids are more forward especially in the vocal range, and the bass/midbass is punchier (kick drums just rock out)!
   
  Both have more than enough power to ruin your hearing in 30 seconds.  I can't knock the NFB-12 too hard though for it's price range is 200 less shipped and includes a DAC. 
   
   
  No hum or noise issues here BTW.


----------



## LiqTenExp

It is Schiitastic


----------



## jamato8

Yeah, you got to love the glow of tubes. I wouldn't mind it if they were up higher. All my tube items I have built except my dac have the tubes totally exposed. They are part of the art.


----------



## Loevhagen

@ LiqTenExp: Excellent picture! It´s nice to have pictures like this whilst waiting on my Lyr arriving ultimo this month.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah, wanted to mention that the KSC75 with the Lyr gets almost no hiss, and the hum is the weakest I've ever heard it.

The more sensitive ones like the M50 and D7000 is where hiss and hum will be heard easily when nothing is playing.

So if you have anything that pretty much necessitates using an amp, you probably will get little to no hiss or hum.

I'm loving the KSC75 so much through the Lyr, it almost makes me wanna try the HD650, as I hear they have a similar sound, though the HD650 has obvious refinement. Still, with the HE-4 coming in this week, and it being said that it trumps the HD650, it'd be a waste to try it now.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> Oh yeah, wanted to mention that the KSC75 with the Lyr gets almost no hiss, and the hum is the weakest I've ever heard it.
> 
> The more sensitive ones like the M50 and D7000 is where hiss and hum will be heard easily when nothing is playing.
> 
> ...




The HD650's do not sound like the KSC75's they are not even in the same class sonically I would say if anything the KSC75's sound more like the 595's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just going off what I've heard on here, as well as the frequency curve is strangely identical. I normally wouldn't ever associate what I hear from the KSC75 with what I read about the HD650. But perhaps the 'brighter' new HD650 might? Anyways, I certainly don't want the 'warm and smooth' HD650.


----------



## maverickronin

I've got both so I'll chime in. Fist off the KSC75s do in fact scale very well with the quality of an amp, so MLE has not lost his mind unless I manged to also lose mine in the exact same place. The KSC75 aren't on the same technical level as the HD650 of course, though they are good on their own. If Koss repackaged them in a full size frame and slickly marketed them, people would probably be paying upwards of $100 for them and I don't think it would be a rip off. They are by far, the best value in this market.

The HD650's more extended bass can make it sound darker or sometimes more mid-focused to to some people than the KSC75s. The KSC75s only have a bit more treble than the HD650s but the KSC75s are more 'peaky' and likely have a fair bit more distortion up there which contributes to the subjective description of brightness and makes them sound more "aggressive" than the HD650s. Th Senns aren't "aggressive" at all. They are slighly dark and very slightly warm. They are smooth in the sense that they have very little distortion for a dynamic driver but not in the sense that they have slow transients which blur details.

Also, MLE, I'm not sure if any one told you this about your incoming HE-4, but if they're anything like the HE-5LE and HE-6 which I have heard they're going to be smooth in the same way the HD650 is but on a far higher level. Orthos are great at that. My modded T50RP MKIIs (which own my HD650s) do the same thing. Delicate female vocals are buttery smooth and grain free but at the same time death metal growls retain all of their harshness. Its the best of both worlds for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

We will find out soon enough. The HE-4 couldn't have come at a better time. I'm very picky with my treble. If there is a lack of sparkle, it won't work for me. 

Well, fwih of the HE-4, its a more 'fun' version of the HE-5LE, with pronounced bass and treble. I heard the HE line is bright, which is why I looked into these.


----------



## maverickronin

Both the 5-LE and the 6 are brighter than I'd prefer, so the 4 will probably be good for your tastes as long as you don't equate "sparkle" to extra distortion. The treble on the HEs I've heard was very clear, present, and well defined and not in any way attenuated, recessed, or rolled off.

I've only head them at meets so I can't say for sure, but I'd assume that that lack of higher order distortion products would let me enjoy them for a bit longer than something like the DT990, but given the fact that I still think its too much, you'd _probably _love it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if extra sparkle is distortion, I'm all for it. The D7000 is about as smooth as I'll ever want my headphones to be, and quite a few people find them to be bright, so yeah. I'm pretty sure as long as the bass near the quantity of the DT990, I'm sold. I hear its a very visceral bass compared to the HE6, so... I sure hope its enough for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my HE-4! Man... wow. These are epic. And OMG, with the Sansa Fuze as a source via LoD, the Lyr needs to be close to 3 o clock! O_O

BTW, there is NO hiss or hum with the HE-4. Just as silent as my E9. So those with hum/hiss issues, don't blame the Lyr. Blame yourself for using sensitive headphones on it.

Coincidentally, the E9 only needs to be at 1-2 on the volume pot on High Gain, so the Lyr needs MORE. With the 3.5mm input on the E9, or low gain with the 6.3mm input, the E9 can't drive them loud enough even at max volume.

What has this showed to me? For one, the E9 can drive the HE-4 well enough. The E9 has more sub bass presence, less punch, mids are still more forward, but the treble is sharp. It certainly reminds me of the DT990, but the mids are definitely right there. I'd say it has slightly less bass, and more mids than the DT990.

 I however see where the Lyr tops the E9.

The HE-4 sounds almost downright perfect with the Lyr. Don't take my word for it. It sounds amazing and natural. Treble still sparkles, bass is punchy, but doesn't sound like the main focus. I dunno what people are thinking by saying the mids are recessed. Even on the Lyr, the mids are pretty forward. Mids are balanced, whereas on the E9, it sounds too forward. The sound doesn't have the body the way it does on the Lyr.

This is initial impressions of the HE-4. I assume burning in may become even better. The HE-4 is quite possibly the best headphone I have heard in terms of sheer SQ. It really does sound like a DT880/DT990 hybrid. Best of both worlds, with the best treble I've heard in any headphone. I wonder how close to the T1 the HE-4 is.

Those who love their DT880 certainly owe it to themselves to listen to the HE-4. I specifically mention the HE-4 because its known to have a fuller low end than the HE-5 or HE-6.


----------



## jronan2

What about comfort, clamp, weight, quality of pads? All that good stuff we need to know about the HE-4 other than SQ. So I'm guessing the HE-4 is probably considered a very balanced headphone if your comparing it to the DT880. What music have you tried that you liked/ disliked with them? (Maybe you haven't found that you disliked anything yet, but maybe you would prefer some music more with the D7000)
  Even though you said the e9 can drive these bad boys, I'm assuming these will be exclusively used with the Lyr?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the HE-4 sounds like magic with the Lyr. The E9 just doesn't pair up well with it. The treble is already pretty pronounced on the HE-4, so the E9 doesn't help it. Not DT990 treble, but not natural either. The Lyr makes it sound natural and balanced. As a treblehead, I'd say the treble is just PERFECT for me. Even better than the D7000's treble to me.

Comfort? Dude... seriously, 10/10. I get no discomfort whatsoever, which is more than I can say about the Premium Beyers. While the Beyers are comfy, I find myself shifting them every once in awhile. The HE-4 is just the epitome of full sized comfort for me. With the Beyers, my neck hurt for some reason. I dunno why.

The velours remind me of the 880/990s. Very soft and very comfortable. No itchiness. This showcases why I prefer velours a million times over the the other stuff.

Hot? Nope. The HE-4 is VERY open, and the pads paired up with all that air will make sure to keep me happy all day.

Clamp? Perfect. Why? Because its not loose, and not clampy. Its literally perfect. My issue with the D7000 was that it's too loose. My issue with the PC360 is that its too tight. The HE-4 just does it right where I feel headphones should clamp.

Weight? Very light. The weight is perfectly distributed, the leather headband molds to my head perfecly, and is padded on the bottom enough to not ever make it feel its presence. Seriously my fave headband outside of the Steelseries Siberia in terms of comfort.


I've tried all sorts of music. They truly remind me of a cross between the DT880/DT990. If anything, it really makes me wanna try the T1, as I have a feeling it will sound similar. I don't have a pressing need to spend the money to find out. I'm too happy with the HE-4.

What do I NOT like about them? Hmm, my inner basshead wishes it had more bass, but its honestly not because its lacking. The bass if fantastic, well textured, and with plenty of punch. It just isn't the main focus. Had this been my only headphone, I wouldn't be completely happy with the bass, but that's what my D7000 is for. Still, the HE-4 does hip hop and electronic genres VERY well.

As it is, the HE-4 is well balanced. Seriously, in comparison to the D7000, it has less bass, more mids, and about the same treble quantity.

They are definitely brighter than the Denons, so those looking for warmth will want some warm tubes with the Lyr, as the stock ones sound a bit clinical with the HE-4. I'm considering some warm tubes now, as it would probably fill out the bass better.

Sorry to hijack this thread. The HE-4 sounds epic with the Lyr, is all I wanna say on topic.

I still prefer my D7000 as a whole, but the HE-4 would please more serious audiophiles more. They're that good, IMHO. I think the Beyers don't stand a chance.


----------



## blankdisc

Congrats on your HE-4.  Glad you liked it. 
  Personally i don't think that HE-4's bass is fuller than HE-6. Maybe it seems to be, because HE-6 is so much harder to drive, and its bass only comes out to play if it is fed enough power. Last night i have been listening to Sheffield Lab Drum Disc from HE-6 and Lyr. It's just unbelievable. Don't get me wrong. I really like my HE-4 a lot, but HE-6 is unfortunately better in my mind as it should. 
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I specifically mention the HE-4 because its known to have a fuller low end than the HE-5 or HE-6.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, the HE-4 sounds like magic with the Lyr. <snip>
> 
> I've tried all sorts of music. They truly remind me of a cross between the DT880/DT990. If anything, it really makes me wanna try the T1, as I have a feeling it will sound similar. I don't have a pressing need to spend the money to find out. I'm too happy with the HE-4.


 

 FWIW, the Lyr has become my favorite amp with my T1s -- over both the WA6SE and Concerto. I'm more than a little surprised about it, too...


----------



## DemonicLemming

I'd have to say that with both the Gold Lions and stock tubes in the Lyr, the HE-4s were still too bright for me.  I'm pretty sensitive to high frequencies, so it could just be a personal caveat, but I'm hoping a set of LCD-2 cans paired with the Lyr will be the end (for now) of my search for a nice desktop rig.
   
  That said, I think a set of HE-4s with a Lyr and a decent DAC would be a killer setup for the $1000-rig range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

blankdisc said:


> Congrats on your HE-4.  Glad you liked it.
> Personally i don't think that HE-4's bass is fuller than HE-6. Maybe it seems to be, because HE-6 is so much harder to drive, and its bass only comes out to play if it is fed enough power. Last night i have been listening to Sheffield Lab Drum Disc from HE-6 and Lyr. It's just unbelievable. Don't get me wrong. I really like my HE-4 a lot, but HE-6 is unfortunately better in my mind as it should.




Ah, that's cool. Just going off what I hear from others. I have no idea how the HE-6 sounds. I know it HAS to be better for obvious reasons. I'm curious, but I'm not looking to spend the money to find out. My next purchase is gonna be the Schiit DAC, and a pair of tubes... and hopefully that's it. I think the HE-4 does practically everything well, and has a tone that suits me too. I imagine its like 880 owners who know the T1 is better, yet are too happy with the 880 to move up.

Can you tell me where the HE-6 shines over the HE-4? Just curious. Probably best to do in the HE-4 thread. @_@

Demonic Lemming, I can see why the HE-4 would be too bright for some. Its definitely tipped towards brightness, which just isn't a tone a lot of people can't handle. Luckily, that's exactly where my preferences lie. Quite surprised I love the D7000 which is definitely on the warm side, which I would normally hate. Good thing you haven't heard the 990s. You would cry, lol.

On topic, what tubes add some low end presence while maintaining some sort of balance between mids and highs? Its a hard thing to ask for, since the mids and highs are so well executed for me. I would sacrifice a little bit of the mids for bass, but not the highs.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Got my HE-4! Man... wow. These are epic. And OMG, with the Sansa Fuze as a source via LoD, the Lyr needs to be close to 3 o clock! O_O


 

 Hmm, out of my Mini-i's SE out > Lyr, my HE-6 was at the same pot position to get to a decent listening level, so I would infer that the HE-4 has close to the same power requirements as the HE-6 after all. But it sounds like the HE-4 is quite a bit lighter, which I expected.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yeah, I forgot the HE-4 is supposed to be lighter than the HE-6. It IS light. I've had heavier cans, and the HE-4 is one of the select few that doesn't make me tweak my neck every once in awhile. Even the D7000 bothers my neck at times, but nowhere near as much as the Premium Beyers. I gotta say the Pro Beyers are comfier than the Premiums due to more effective clamp (maybe too clampy during initial wear and tear) that keeps them secure. I'd say the HE-4 clamps less than the Pros, but definitely more than the Premiums.


----------



## blankdisc

I think that most of ppl are buying Lyr just to drive HE-6 or LCD2, so i do't think ppl would mind too much here if we discuss a little about orthos WITH Lyr. 
  without going into detail about bass, mids or treble, i think what impresses me the most about HE-6 is how relaxed and effortless it produces music, any type of music. of course, Lyr has a lot to do with this, otherwise you would just feel that HE-6 is seriously underperformed, rather than relaxed.
  
  Quote: 





> Can you tell me where the HE-6 shines over the HE-4? Just curious. Probably best to do in the HE-4 thread. @_@


----------



## MacedonianHero

olias of sunhillow said:


> FWIW, the Lyr has become my favorite amp with my T1s -- over both the WA6SE and Concerto. I'm more than a little surprised about it, too...




:eek:

Just kidding. I do like the Lyr + T1s very much too (and can see your preferences over the Concerto). I still prefer the T1s with my OTL WA2s though.


----------



## WNBC

Also having some fun with the Lyr and the Fostex T50rp.  The T50 is a bit more forward and less transparent than the HE-4 which can work well for some music.  The T50 and Lyr are a good combo for some weighty bass and appreciating songs that highlight guitar.
   
  Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> I think that most of ppl are buying Lyr just to drive HE-6 or LCD2, so i do't think ppl would mind too much here if we discuss a little about orthos WITH Lyr.
> without going into detail about bass, mids or treble, i think what impresses me the most about HE-6 is how relaxed and effortless it produces music, any type of music. of course, Lyr has a lot to do with this, otherwise you would just feel that HE-6 is seriously underperformed, rather than relaxed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here are my first day impressions of the HE-4:

So how does it perform?

The same thing I said of the DT880 applies to the HE-4. It is a sound whoring headphone that picks up a ridiculous amount of detail. I could hear EVERYTHING.

How is the soundstage? Not so big. But not small. Just about average in terms of open headphones. The PC360, AD700, K701, HD598, DT990 all have a definite advantage.

The soundstage reminds me of the DT880.

Positioning? Hmm, still up in the air. I need more testing, but I feel its mostly like the DT880 again, in that it lacks rear depth to me. For music, I couldn't care less about soundstage though. Its good enough.

For those wondering: the E9 actually drives the HE-4 LOUDER than the Lyr. However, there is a clear difference in body, weight, richness, and thickness to the sound. The E9 is very dry and lacking in emotion compared to the Lyr, which REALLY brings out the music with the HE-4. Does it sound good with the E9? You bet. But it pales when compared to the Lyr. The HE-4 and E9 don't pair up well, nor was it meant to. Orthos need quite a bit of power, and this time I can say the Lyr has proven itself to me, though its strangely not as loud as the E9.

As of right now, I will recommend the HE-4 to everyone who has a powerful amp to drive them. It bears a sonic resemblance to the DT880 and DT990. Midpoint between the two in tone. Bright, but with more mids than both, treble that's clearly superior to both, and bass that comes between the DT880 and DT990 in quantity, and quality that doesn't come close to messing with the mids.

Bass: 8
Mids: 9
Treble: 10 (for me. It will be too much for those that find the Beyer DT880 too harsh, but its clearly not as sharp as the DT990)

So yes, if you want a DT880 like sound with more bass, more mids, and cleaner treble, the HE-4 will do that, but only with a powerful amp like the Lyr. It has a very clear, very crisp, and very quick sound. Those who want warmth and smoothness will not find it in the HE-4. Its bright and its aggresive. Treble sensitive head-fiers, you will wanna skip it, the same way you skip the Beyers.


----------



## WNBC

"sound whoring headphone" -- now that's a line that should go into the HE-4 description on Head-Direct.

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Here are my first day impressions of the HE-4:
> 
> So how does it perform?
> 
> The same thing I said of the DT880 applies to the HE-4. It is a sound whoring headphone that picks up a ridiculous amount of detail. I could hear EVERYTHING.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Have to agree with this.  The HE-4s were just utterly composed when playing music - every bit, the lows, mids, and highs - it does so naturally, it's hard to go back to dynamic cans.  Switching to my old K240Ms gave me an impression of a very fat lady trying very hard to struggle over a very short wall, while the orthos were like an Olympic gymnast running through a gold-medal routine.  My K702s just felt unnaturally thin and boring compared to the HE-4s - the clarity and detail is there with both, but the K702s just didn't have nearly the impact across the spectrum, or the low-end ability.
   
  Listening to Aphex Twins' Bucephalus Bouncing Ball, the HE-4s gave very tactile snaps and thumps, while the K702s were much more dainty and without any impact whatsoever.
   
  tl;dr version - While one could say they're both in the same family, the K702 is the prim and proper daughter with a spotless 3-series BMW in the garage, while the HE-4 is the crazy younger daughter out racing a '68 Firebird.
  
  Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> I think that most of ppl are buying Lyr just to drive HE-6 or LCD2, so i do't think ppl would mind too much here if we discuss a little about orthos WITH Lyr.
> without going into detail about bass, mids or treble, i think what impresses me the most about HE-6 is how relaxed and effortless it produces music, any type of music. of course, Lyr has a lot to do with this, otherwise you would just feel that HE-6 is seriously underperformed, rather than relaxed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, I was able to hook up my E7 to my new Desktop. Whereas the HE-4 on the Lyr had to be at near 3 o clock with my Fuze, now I need to only have my Lyr at just past 12 o clock to make it loud enough for my taste. the E9 needs to be just past 11, so it's still a little stronger in terms of volume relative to position on the volume pot. So I assume with DACs, the Lyr will be at around 12 for the HE-4.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> Okay, I was able to hook up my E7 to my new Desktop. Whereas the HE-4 on the Lyr had to be at near 3 o clock with my Fuze, now I need to only have my Lyr at just past 12 o clock to make it loud enough for my taste. the E9 needs to be just past 11, so it's still a little stronger in terms of volume relative to position on the volume pot.So I assume with DACs, the Lyr will be at around 12 for the HE-4.




The position of the Lyr's volume control is going to be affected by the voltage output of your DAC I doubt the E7 is putting out 2V as most desktop Dacs put out at least that much or more I may be wrong but If its like the D6 its probably putting out around 1.5V rms once you get a better Dac your volume
position will lower.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how much it puts out, but all I know is that it definitely needs less on the pot than the Fuze. It makes sense, but still.

 As for a beter DAC, that's definitely next... but I'll be patient in waiting for the first Schiit DAC. The E7 is working quite well atm, and have no pressing need to get something before the Schiit DAC's release.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno how much it puts out, but all I know is that it definitely needs less on the pot than the Fuze. It makes sense, but still.
> 
> As for a beter DAC, that's definitely next... but I'll be patient in waiting for the first Schiit DAC. The E7 is working quite well atm, and have no pressing need to get something before the Schiit DAC's release.




Yeah I have a awesome Dac but I am waiting to see what chipset Shiit decides to use for their Dac will be interesting. I may have to pick one up


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it wasn't for that, I'd have bought one of the Audio-GD DACs...
 Schiit has made me a loyal customer...


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrScary* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It also depends on the taper of the volume control:  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html


----------



## sridhar3

I already posted this in the Sennheiser 650 thread, but somebody brought up an interesting point, so I thought I'd share here, if only so that I can get more opinions.
   
  I was recently listening to The Dark Knight OST (FLAC) on the Lyr -> 650.  On certain tracks with complex passages, the music started to lose resolution.  The bass started to get less discrete and punchy, and more muddy and messy, bleeding into the other elements.  Instrument separation disintegrated and everything sorta started "falling apart", for lack of a better description.  Though this is a rare occurrence, one that I had not experienced prior to the described incident, suffice it to say I was a bit annoyed.
   
  To make a long story short, when I posted in the 650 thread, the differential diagnosis was the headphone cable, the amp, and the headphones.  My cable is a Zu Mobius, so it's unlikely that's the problem.  One member was of the opinion that the 650s have poor transient response in complex passages.  One other opinion was that there is poor synergy between my amp/tubes and the headphones, and that a hybrid tube/SS amp would solve the problem.  If synergy is indeed the issue, that would imply that either changing the amp OR the headphones would correct the problem.
   
  Anybody willing to weigh in on this?  Has anyone else experienced a similar problem, with the 650s and/or the Lyr?


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I already posted this in the Sennheiser 650 thread, but somebody brought up an interesting point, so I thought I'd share here, if only so that I can get more opinions.
> 
> I was recently listening to The Dark Knight OST (FLAC) on the Lyr -> 650.  On certain tracks with complex passages, the music started to lose resolution.  The bass started to get less discrete and punchy, and more muddy and messy, bleeding into the other elements.  Instrument separation disintegrated and everything sorta started "falling apart", for lack of a better description.  Though this is a rare occurrence, one that I had not experienced prior to the described incident, suffice it to say I was a bit annoyed.
> 
> ...


 

 Im confused by this since the Lyr is a hybrid tube/SS amp. Perhaps a tube change will help but IDK.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> Im confused by this since the Lyr is a hybrid tube/SS amp. Perhaps a tube change will help but IDK.


 

 Yeah, that's what I thought too.  I'm not an electrical engineer or anything, so I honestly have no idea.
   
  I forgot to mention I'm not using the stock tubes.  Using NOS Amperex 6922s.


----------



## grokit

Well I think the HD650 is known more for warmth and midbass emphasis than it is for deep bass, so I would try a different headphone known for deeper bass on that soundtrack as it goes quite low IIRC. An HE5-LE might be just the ticket with the Lyr and you get a 30-day trial.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> I already posted this in the Sennheiser 650 thread, but somebody brought up an interesting point, so I thought I'd share here, if only so that I can get more opinions.
> 
> I was recently listening to The Dark Knight OST (FLAC) on the Lyr -> 650.  On certain tracks with complex passages, the music started to lose resolution.  The bass started to get less discrete and punchy, and more muddy and messy, bleeding into the other elements.  Instrument separation disintegrated and everything sorta started "falling apart", for lack of a better description.  Though this is a rare occurrence, one that I had not experienced prior to the described incident, suffice it to say I was a bit annoyed.
> 
> ...


 

 That's pretty funny.  I can only comment on three things;

 The Lyr _IS_ a hybrid amp
 The Lyr does not seem the have that problem with other headphones I've listened to.
 What about your DAC?


----------



## MrScary

sridhar3 said:


> I already posted this in the Sennheiser 650 thread, but somebody brought up an interesting point, so I thought I'd share here, if only so that I can get more opinions.
> 
> I was recently listening to The Dark Knight OST (FLAC) on the Lyr -> 650.  On certain tracks with complex passages, the music started to lose resolution.  The bass started to get less discrete and punchy, and more muddy and messy, bleeding into the other elements.  Instrument separation disintegrated and everything sorta started "falling apart", for lack of a better description.  Though this is a rare occurrence, one that I had not experienced prior to the described incident, suffice it to say I was a bit annoyed.
> 
> ...




I have the 650's and the Lyr get the upgraded 6N1P tubes from Shiit that will help unveil the 650's quite a bit. Its not going to change them 100% but the stock tubes with the 650's suck. The 6N1p tubes will help with the synergy and wake up the 650's
can't beat it for 20.00


----------



## ZorgDK

mrscary said:


> sridhar3 said:
> 
> 
> > I already posted this in the Sennheiser 650 thread, but somebody brought up an interesting point, so I thought I'd share here, if only so that I can get more opinions.
> ...




Interesting I'll try them out, thanks for the tip. I like the HD650 with the stock tubes, but it can always get better.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> That's pretty funny.  I can only comment on three things;
> 
> The Lyr _IS_ a hybrid amp
> The Lyr does not seem the have that problem with other headphones I've listened to.
> What about your DAC?


 

 My DAC is an Audio-gd NFB11 USB.  Lucky that I managed to get one of the last USB-implemented Sabre32 ES9018 devices Audio-gd manufactured, but I do understand that they were having difficulty with said implementation.  It is upgraded with the TCXO clock, but is it possible that the implementation itself is screwing up my sound?

 @ MrScary: I've already upgraded my tubes to NOS Amperex 6922, so I doubt a change to the 6N1P would net me an improvement.  Please correct me if I'm wrong though.


----------



## Kremer930

sridhar3. I would be interested to know your views of how the amperex compare. For $20 for a matched set of the Schiit 6N1P I can say that they are great value and that one of their strengths is very powerful and defined bass. 

There is a bass guitar solo in an Angus and Julia Stone ITunes live album that is really deep and you can almost count the oscillations of the string. The Lyr eats it up. I have to refrain from winding the volume around pass 3 such is the addictiveness of the detail and sound.


----------



## jronan2

How hot does the 6N1P tubes really get? Does it affect room temperature? Not a big deal just curious because summertime is coming and my room is hot enough with all these electronics hooked up. I'm still going to see what they do with the DT990's but just curious.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


kremer930 said:


> sridhar3. I would be interested to know your views of how the amperex compare. For $20 for a matched set of the Schiit 6N1P I can say that they are great value and that one of their strengths is very powerful and defined bass.


 
   
  I gave my impressions of the Amperex, as compared to the stock JJ tubes, here (also w/ tube pictures, description of setup and source, etc.): http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread#post_7408425
   
  I don't have the 6N1P or the Gold Lion, so I can't really comment on those.  It's a valid point that you can't really go wrong with the 6N1P for $20, so hopefully I'll give them a go at some point in the future, but probably not for a few months.  I'm also looking forward to hearing some reviews on Telefunken and Mullard tubes.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> My DAC is an Audio-gd NFB11 USB.  Lucky that I managed to get one of the last USB-implemented Sabre32 ES9018 devices Audio-gd manufactured, but I do understand that they were having difficulty with said implementation.  It is upgraded with the TCXO clock, but is it possible that the implementation itself is screwing up my sound?
> 
> @ MrScary: I've already upgraded my tubes to NOS Amperex 6922, so I doubt a change to the 6N1P would net me an improvement.  Please correct me if I'm wrong though.


 
  If the problem is with your DAC it will maifest itself with other headphones besides your 650s.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> If the problem is with your DAC it will maifest itself with other headphones besides your 650s.


 
   
  Thanks for the input/ideas.  Only problem is that, besides the 650s, all I have are IEMs.  Don't know if it's a good idea to plug those into the Lyr.  I don't want them to explode and catch on fire like Touchdown Jesus.  (If you don't know what I'm talking about: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-06-15-touchdown-jesus-fire_N.htm)
   
  Guess I should go buy more pairs of headphones then.


----------



## MrScary

jronan2 said:


> How hot does the 6N1P tubes really get? Does it affect room temperature? Not a big deal just curious because summertime is coming and my room is hot enough with all these electronics hooked up. I'm still going to see what they do with the DT990's but just curious.




They do run hotter than stock but the sound improvement is worth it


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> How hot does the 6N1P tubes really get? Does it affect room temperature?


 


  Seriously? Tell me you're joking.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> How hot does the 6N1P tubes really get? Does it affect room temperature? Not a big deal just curious because summertime is coming and my room is hot enough with all these electronics hooked up. I'm still going to see what they do with the DT990's but just curious.


 
  I think those two little tubes may heat the whole house in the winter!


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> jronan2 said:
> 
> 
> > How hot does the 6N1P tubes really get? Does it affect room temperature? Not a big deal just curious because summertime is coming and my room is hot enough with all these electronics hooked up. I'm still going to see what they do with the DT990's but just curious.
> ...





They run so hot that my Lyr started changing colors!


----------



## DemonicLemming

It can get warm with any tubes in there, but I wouldn't characterize it as hot - some of the big power amps I've done compliance testing on get hot enough to literally cause skin burns (and that's just the enclosure, not the internals).  That's toasty.
   
  The Lyr gets warm, but not nearly too hot to touch, and not warm enough to make an appreciable thermal delta in anything but a broom closet.
  
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> How hot does the 6N1P tubes really get? Does it affect room temperature? Not a big deal just curious because summertime is coming and my room is hot enough with all these electronics hooked up. I'm still going to see what they do with the DT990's but just curious.


----------



## jronan2

Thanks Demonic. I never had tubes yeah it was a serious question.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> They run so hot that my Lyr started changing colors!


 
  That is a patina, part of the charm and character of an amp. 
   
   
  Ok, so to be a decent small room heater you will need a number of these?? What a rip off. There goes more money out the window. 
   
  Any more impressions about the amps sound? That is always enjoyable reading for those of cast off on an island somewhere out here.


----------



## Ultraviolet88

hi guys, between schiit lyr vs centrance dacmini, which is a better buy to drive cans eg beyer t1/lcd2/he6?
  Im concerned about whole sound implementation and not so much as DAC/preamp/HPA value.
  Just comparing the sonics and character of sound produced.
  In other words, if u already have a decent DAC, and would want some good headphone amp for tough loads and musical sound, which of the two would be a good buy?
  Thanks


----------



## Snips

Quote: 





ultraviolet88 said:


> hi guys, between schiit lyr vs centrance dacmini, which is a better buy to drive cans eg beyer t1/lcd2/he6?
> Im concerned about whole sound implementation and not so much as DAC/preamp/HPA value.
> Just comparing the sonics and character of sound produced.
> In other words, if u already have a decent DAC, and would want some good headphone amp for tough loads and musical sound, which of the two would be a good buy?
> Thanks


 

 Lyr should be the better amp. It can drive  almost anything on the planet. It will pair extremely well with orthodynamics and high impedence headphones. I use mine with HE-6 and HD800.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> That is a patina, part of the charm and character of an amp.
> 
> 
> Ok, so to be a decent small room heater you will need a number of these?? What a rip off. There goes more money out the window.
> ...




hahaha I was joking Jamato8 about it changing colors I was just riding the wave of tubes running hot hahaha


----------



## jamato8

So was I. :^)


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> So was I. :^)




hahahaha


----------



## Ultraviolet88

Thanks Snips for the reply. I presume you heard the DACmini also then? I would think like you but apparently the guys in the DACmini board has it that the gain on the DACmini can be increased by requesting the company to bump it up so that it can also drive anything 600ohm and below with ease. Im sure both can drive the tough cans reasonably and being tube hybrid, the Lyr can be rolled and have more options and cost cheaper too. But before i take the leap of faith, just need a few more ppl who have heard both to give an honest comment.
  Both Lyr and DACmini have appeared FS on head-fi and that goes to show for whatever reason, the owner didnt think they were suitable for keeping even though im pretty sure none of the two would be 'bad' for sound in any sense. usually if we find something to be a real gem, even if we dont have use for it and cash flow is not dire, we would just keep an iconic product, no?
   
  Thanks for more input....
   
  Quote: 





snips said:


> Lyr should be the better amp. It can drive  almost anything on the planet. It will pair extremely well with orthodynamics and high impedence headphones. I use mine with HE-6 and HD800.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ultraviolet88 said:


> Thanks Snips for the reply. I presume you heard the DACmini also then? I would think like you but apparently the guys in the DACmini board has it that the gain on the DACmini can be increased by requesting the company to bump it up so that it can also drive anything 600ohm and below with ease. Im sure both can drive the tough cans reasonably and being tube hybrid, the Lyr can be rolled and have more options and cost cheaper too. But before i take the leap of faith, just need a few more ppl who have heard both to give an honest comment.
> Both Lyr and DACmini have appeared FS on head-fi and that goes to show for whatever reason, the owner didnt think they were suitable for keeping even though im pretty sure none of the two would be 'bad' for sound in any sense. usually if we find something to be a real gem, even if we dont have use for it and cash flow is not dire, we would just keep an iconic product, no?
> 
> Thanks for more input....


 
  When comparing the amp portion of the DAC Mini to the Lyr, one must consider the fact that when you have a limited output capacity, no amount of gain increase will give one more output power.
   
  Here's the bottom line;
  As good as the DAC Mini is, the Lyr is a better amp.
  As good as the Lyr is, the DAC Mini is the better DAC.


----------



## Ultraviolet88

Hi kwkarth,
   
  Thanks for jumping in to share.
  Using a Nuforce HDP as my DAC combo. Considering what would d next upgrade be, a Lyr or a DACmini.
  The DACmini as u wrote somewhere is another level from HDP, are they so far apart or just a variant of the same sound/sonics? Just worried getting a DACmini would be a sidegrade more than an upgrade. If the DAC and amp of the DACmini is really notably(and not just marginally) superior to HDP, then it makes sense to get the DACmini.
  Someone wrote that the output from the DACmini is more musical and warmer/valve-like and preferred over the HDP sound. However, that doesnt mean the HDP sounds inferior objectively speaking as it output 24/96 USB or 24/192 SPDIF(same specs as DACmini). So a bit undecided here.
   
  The Lyr i have heard twice and I found the sound pretty enjoyable but didnt floor me as I had hoped. Maybe too high expectations but nonetheless a good amp with tube-rolling options.
  So say HDP as DAC -->Lyr vs DACmini sound?? Which way would u advice and why? Thanks
   
  Cheers
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> When comparing the amp portion of the DAC Mini to the Lyr, one must consider the fact that when you have a limited output capacity, no amount of gain increase will give one more output power.
> 
> Here's the bottom line;
> As good as the DAC Mini is, the Lyr is a better amp.
> As good as the Lyr is, the DAC Mini is the better DAC.


----------



## Happy Camper

For the tube savvy, what are some American equivalent tubes that can be sub'ed? Can a 2c51 work?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





ultraviolet88 said:


> Hi kwkarth,
> 
> Thanks for jumping in to share.
> Using a Nuforce HDP as my DAC combo. Considering what would d next upgrade be, a Lyr or a DACmini.
> ...


 
  Some of the benefits of the Lyr will show up more or less depending upon the headphones you're trying to drive with it and what tubes you use.  For me, and for my ears, if I had a choice between the HDP and the DACMini...  I would run, not walk, to the nearest place to buy the DACMini.  To me, the Centrance product is in another league altogether compared to the HDP.  Then again, so is the Lyr compared to the HDP.  To my ears, the HDP is a large version of the μDAC2, about on the same level sonically.  Not a bad product at all, but not in the same league as either the Lyr or the DacMini.  Both the DAC and the Amp in the DACMini far outclass the HDP.


----------



## wuwhere

2C51/396A/5670/6385/6N3P can not be substituted for 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/6N1P. Both are 9 pins BUT they have different electrical specs.
  
  Quote: 





happy camper said:


> For the tube savvy, what are some American equivalent tubes that can be sub'ed? Can a 2c51 work?


----------



## Happy Camper

Thanks Wu. Damn.


----------



## Skylab

wuwhere said:


> 2C51/396A/5670/6385/6N3P can not be substituted for 6DJ8/6922/ECC88/6N1P. Both are 9 pins BUT they have different electrical specs.


Right. And just for clarity, the 6DJ8 is the US designation. ECC88 is the European designation. 6922 is also US, and the European equivalent is the E88CC.


----------



## USAudio

The complete 6moons review of the Lyr is out: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
   
  Here's a nice quote: "... to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4.000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5."


----------



## blankdisc

Personally the most exciting thing is what Jason said at the end. 



usaudio said:


> The complete 6moons review of the Lyr is out: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/9.html
> 
> Here's a nice quote: "... to exceed it as pure valve headphone amp could take $4.000 for an Eddie Current Balancing Act or fully tricked out Woo Audio Model 5."


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> Personally the most exciting thing is what Jason said at the end.


 

 Yeah I thought the K701 was a great match with the Lyr as well


----------



## blankdisc

oh, i was talking about the upcoming DACs from Schiit. ~_~



grokit said:


> Yeah I thought the K701 was a great match with the Lyr as well


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> oh, i was talking about the upcoming DACs and possibly a headphone from Schiit. ~_~


 

 Um, no headphones from us. Sorry if I gave that impression--we're not the transducer experts here! In fact, we know two things about transducers: jack and . . . well, nevermind!


----------



## blankdisc

Really? i quote from 6moons " What you can look forward to: ...A 'statement' headphone/2-channel product.".

Come on!!! This is not fair. ! I have already started saving by skipping dinner tonight. 

 anyway, GREAT job on the Lyr. Can't wait for your DAC as so many others.



jason stoddard said:


> Um, no headphones from us. Sorry if I gave that impression--we're not the transducer experts here! In fact, we know two things about transducers: jack and . . . well, nevermind!


----------



## DemonicLemming

I think it means a hybrid headphone/speaker amplifier, rather than a discrete set of cans.
  
  Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> Really? i quote from 6moons " What you can look forward to: ...A 'statement' headphone/2-channel product.".
> 
> Come on!!! This is not fair. ! I have already started saving by skipping dinner tonight.
> 
> ...


----------



## blankdisc

i see. sorry if i caused any confusion. 


demoniclemming said:


> I think it means a hybrid headphone/speaker amplifier, rather than a discrete set of cans.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I posted that 6moons review in this thread as soon as it came out but then I deleted it after I gave it a full read.  I was actually embarrassed that I posted the article because after I read it I realized the reviewer didn't  really say anything.  It was a terrible article and a complete waste of time. I found it utterly useless.    In my opinion 6moons has some of the worst reviews I've ever read in 21 years as an audiophile.     Do they pay those guys over there at 6moons?  I seriously hope not.


----------



## grokit

The quotes from Jason on page 2 made it a decent read.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I posted that 6moons review in this thread as soon as it came out but then I deleted it after I gave it a full read.  I was actually embarrassed that I posted the article because after I read it I realized the reviewer didn't  really say anything.  It was a terrible article and a complete waste of time. I found it utterly useless.    In my opinion 6moons has some of the worst reviews I've ever read in 21 years as an audiophile.     Do they pay those guys over there at 6moons?  I seriously hope not.


 It was initially just a preview and wasn't intended to be a full review until after the unit had broken in for a couple weeks.  The actual review portion was just posted.


----------



## WarriorAnt

I'm talking about the full review. Just came out.  useless.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


warriorant said:


> I'm talking about the full review. Just came out.  useless.


 
  I kept reading thinking they were going to say something really definitive. Didn't happen. I thought, ok, they have mentioned the LCD-2, well not much information, oh good, the HE-6.    Where's the Beef?


----------



## WarriorAnt

It was gibberish. Mental pablum. Confusing.  All over the place and yet nowhere at the same time. Ridiculous.  Idiot wind.  Usually I'm an easy going guy. I try never to be abrasive or unpleasant but somehow every time I read a 6moons review I find myself trying to skin the dog.  Most of the reviews from 6moons are simply garbage.


----------



## jronan2

I think the same way with every 6moon review, I just didn't say anything because I thought I was the only one that couldn't understand a single sentence they write. I think they try and be too technical, too cute. I was really looking forward to that review since there aren't that many out there that I know of beside the community here( which is still the best source of information).


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It was gibberish. Mental pablum. Confusing.  All over the place and yet nowhere at the same time. Ridiculous.  Idiot wind.  Usually I'm an easy going guy. I try never to be abrasive or unpleasant but somehow every time I read a 6moons review I find myself trying to skin the dog.  Most of the reviews from 6moons are simply garbage.


 

 Ha-Haaaa!
  Obivously you are not an "audiofool".
  Everything you said is true, but let's not forget the momentous "Realization Award". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I dont mind reading their reviews, I just get out the buttered popcorn and enjoy the time wasted.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> It was gibberish. Mental pablum. Confusing.  All over the place and yet nowhere at the same time. Ridiculous.  Idiot wind.  Usually I'm an easy going guy. I try never to be abrasive or unpleasant but somehow every time I read a 6moons review I find myself trying to skin the dog.  Most of the reviews from 6moons are simply garbage.


  You're not alone, a lot of folks don't seem to care much for the 6moons reviews. 
  However, the initial part of the review did have some nice information about the decisions that went into the design of the Lyr, pictures of the prototypes, the Schiit facilities, etc.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





usaudio said:


>


 

 This is true.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I think the same way with every 6moon review, I just didn't say anything because I thought I was the only one that couldn't understand a single sentence they write. I think they try and be too technical, too cute. I was really looking forward to that review since there aren't that many out there that I know of beside the community here( which is still the best source of information).


 

 I just think that many of the folks there simply do not know how to write. They have poor writing skills and because of this they cannot formulate a cohesive review nor can they convey their thoughts about the equipment they are trying to review.  Often there is no direction to the review, they take off and go wherever and then end.  Perhaps I am wrong but I'd like to read something about how a piece of gear articulates MUSIC!  But maybe thats just me.  When I read the DAC-2 review I got a lot of woodworking imagery and with the lyr review some tidbits about dark chocolate.  But hey, the reviews are free so...


----------



## jronan2

Yeah that is true they are free. I enjoyed the pics of the facility and the set up they were testing it on etc. Feels good to dream I would have all those toys one day.


----------



## ZorgDK

I just read the 6moons's review of the Lyr. I thought it was a great review.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Yeah that is true they are free. I enjoyed the pics of the facility and the set up they were testing it on etc. Feels good to dream I would have all those toys one day.


 


  Actually they may be free but 6moon reviews are laden with advertising so they make good coin from their useless babble.


----------



## Ynoskire

I agree that the 6moons website is by far the most overadvertised website I've ever seen. The advertisement is (deliberately?) scattered all over the page so it's never clear wether something is an advertisement or a review. Also, it's nearly impossible to find something you are looking for right away. The content (i'm not commenting on the actual quality of the reviews because frankly, I don't really care) is scattered across multiple pages and not organised at all.


----------



## maverickronin

Its web design straight out of 1998.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


maverickronin said:


> Its web design straight out of 1998.


 

 1998 was awesome.  Clinton was still president.
   
  The review wasn't THAT bad.  I've seen worse.


----------



## grokit

I think that the 6moons pages are nice looking, and the ads could be a lot worse. The review content is hit and miss but it's usually well written. Overall the 6moons brand is a very successful one, I sure wouldn't mind owning it--what a blast that would be! My favorite reviews in general are from Tone Audio though, which I don't take any more seriously than 6moons. It's all just another form of marketing; if you want the real skinny you can find it here and on other forums but you have to look for it.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> 1998 was awesome.  Clinton was still president.
> 
> The review wasn't THAT bad.  I've seen worse.


 
  If you scaled down the resolution of the photos (because everyone was on dialup) and changed the ads (which didn't exist then) to cheesy gifs that linked to other similar sites (because search engines sucked then and those "links" pages were actually useful) it would be almost indistinguishable from a typical geocites or angelfire page.  It got the same sort of crappy layout and clashing graphics that were common before most people figured out the proper way to format a web page.
   
  I'm just talking about the layout and graphics though, not the content of the text.  Regrettably, I have seen worse.  The quality of the "review" may not be very good but it is fairly common.


----------



## Yuceka

I am now listening to a track by Dave Weckl with my HE-5LE and the volume pot is almost at 3 o'clock, and it's not even uncomfortably loud... what's wrong in this picture? The track itself is 320 kbps and my DAC is Stello DA100.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> I am now listening to a track by Dave Weckl with my HE-5LE and the volume pot is almost at 3 o'clock, and it's not even uncomfortably loud... what's wrong in this picture? The track itself is 320 kbps and my DAC is Stello DA100.


 

 Perhaps the output from your DAC is not up to spec?  Are things like this for you with all music you listen to, or just this track?


----------



## Yuceka

I honestly don't know what is my DAC putting out but I've never had any problems with it so far. I guess I've found the problem. I've been switching back and forth between HE5 and HE-5LE, they almost sound the same in terms of the capacity of the Lyr to drive them but the problem was with that track I guess because I have been listening to different songs that are 192 kbps and I do not have the same problem with them. I guess it may have to do with the particular recording of that album... I was just scared for a moment that there is almost no head room left in the amp  I mean I am considering buying HE-6 and if things are like this with HE-5LE, then there would be not much hope for the HE-6. But I don't know why I did not think of listening to bunch of different songs in the first place... I still prefer my HE-5 to HE-5LE and I wonder if should just go with a speaker amp like Virtue Audio products or keep my Lyr.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> I honestly don't know what is my DAC putting out but I've never had any problems with it so far. I guess I've found the problem. I've been switching back and forth between HE5 and HE-5LE, they almost sound the same in terms of the capacity of the Lyr to drive them but the problem was with that track I guess because I have been listening to different songs that are 192 kbps and I do not have the same problem with them. I guess it may have to do with the particular recording of that album... I was just scared for a moment that there is almost no head room left in the amp  I mean I am considering buying HE-6 and if things are like this with HE-5LE, then there would be not much hope for the HE-6. But I don't know why I did not think of listening to bunch of different songs in the first place... I still prefer my HE-5 to HE-5LE and I wonder if should just go with a speaker amp like Virtue Audio products or keep my Lyr.


 
  Actually, there is lots of headroom left in the amp, but with that song being recorded at low volumes your DAC didn't produce enough volume to drive the Lyr to very loud volume.  In this particular case you would have needed more gain, but not more output power.


----------



## Yuceka

So if I am reading you correctly am I good as it is with this DAC or should I be looking for something else?


----------



## grokit

>


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


yuceka said:


> So if I am reading you correctly am I good as it is with this DAC or should I be looking for something else?


 
   
   
  It sounds like a gain issue to me. The specs on you DAC say it only outputs 1.2 volts. The specs on Schiit's website seem to be assuming the use of the more common 2 volt input which is supposed to be the standard for CDPs and common with stand alone DACs. With a voltage gain of 20 from the Lyr you'll only get 24 V output from you Lyr when fed by your current DAC as opposed to the rated maximum of 40 V from the Lyr when fed by at least 2 volts.  You might be better with a speaker amp or maybe even a preamp in between you DAC and the Lyr if you don't want to change your source.
   
  I don't own either of them though and am just running the numbers from the respective websites. I'm sure kw will tell me if I messed up somewhere.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Quote:
> 
> It sounds like a gain issue to me. The specs on you DAC say it only outputs 1.2 volts. The specs on Schiit's website seem to be assuming the use of the more common 2 volt input which is supposed to be the standard for CDPs and common with stand alone DACs. With a voltage gain of 20 from the Lyr you'll only get 24 V output from you Lyr when fed by your current DAC as opposed to the rated maximum of 40 V from the Lyr when fed by at least 2 volts.  You might be better with a speaker amp or maybe even a preamp in between you DAC and the Lyr if you don't want to change your source.
> 
> I don't own either of them though and am just running the numbers from the respective websites. I'm sure kw will tell me if I messed up somewhere.


 
   
  Ya done good!


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Ya done good!


 
   
  Thank you.  Good to know.


----------



## Carlsan

I got asked a question about the ATH-W1000X and the ATH-A2000X on the Lyr, so I did a quick and rambling review/impression.
   
  For testing purposes, I pulled out Lisa Gerrard & Peter Bourke's 1998 album Duality (flac) track Shadow Magnet, Fleet Foxes - Blue Ridge Mountains (flac) and Derek and The Dominos - Layla (mp3 - 320).
   
  I hadn't listened to the A2000x in many months, was using them mostly for classical. The Lyr brought some new sounds to the  A2000x but it didn't benefit as much as the W1000x.
  Listening to Shadow Magnet with the A2000x, the Lyr brought out the light bass impact somewhat, bass impact that the W2000x never seemed to have to my ears. Granted it's a subtle bass impact, nothing overwhelming. Mids are very clear, highs are crisp and without sibilance. They did sound awfully good with the Lyr. This is much to my surprise, as I really wasn't expecting much improvement since my memories of them with the Audio-gd Compass or the Xonar Essence sound card. Yet the difference is not high impact.
  Acoustic test - Fleet Foxes - Blue Ridge Mountains with the W2000x - detail a bit less then the W1000x. Sound a bit brighter but still very nice. Highs are crisp, mids nice, vocals are there but not as present as with the W1000x
  Classic rock - Layla by Derek and The Dominoes. Guitars screech as expected, maybe too much. Speed is fine. Piano sounds very realistic. Again song is brighter than I particularly like but still sounds good. 
   
  On to the W1000x and back to Lisa Gerrard & Peter Bourke , and WOW, what a difference. The bass is rumbling along nicely, not overwhelmingly so but as I would imagine the recording to be intended. Mids are there as they should be, highs are slightly more recessed, but are fine to my ears. These excellent headphones really shine with the Lyr, more so than the W2000X but giving perhaps a slightly colored sound. At least with this track.
  Acoustic test - Fleet Foxes - Blue Ridge Mountains - guitar sounds realistic, strumming is very noticeable, vocals very upfront as appropriate for this recording. The coloring is very light if there at all. The W1000x Lyr combo have changed to reflect the music as only an excellent phone/amp combo will do.
  Classic rock - Layla by Derek & The Domino. These phones make this overplayed stable of FM radio actually sound good again. Full range of sound, not to bright, nice bottom end, can hear drumming, bass, guitars as expected. And the vocals really sound the way they should, in the mix but in front of it, as only a classic rock band would want. Piano just sounds so good, very lifelike but even more so then the W2000x.
   
  In a nutshell, get the Lyr for the W1000x. It makes those phones shine. The A2000x may sound good with the Lyr but the difference, going from my memory of my earlier sources, is that the change isn't that great.
   
  Ahh, have to go back to Shadow Magnet, the track just sounded that good with the W1000x.
   
  Hope this helps!


----------



## Yuceka

Thanks Maverickronin and kwkarth, that was a very helpful information. Sorry for taking up space here with my ignorance


----------



## maverickronin

No problem.  No one learns without asking questions first.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> No problem.  No one learns without asking questions first.


 
  X2  There is no such thing as a dumb question.  We are all victims of ignorance, just in different areas.  When we compare notes, our ignorances give way to knowledge.


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





carlsan said:


> I got asked a question about the ATH-W1000X and the ATH-A2000X on the Lyr, so I did a quick and rambling review/impression.
> 
> For testing purposes, I pulled out Lisa Gerrard & Peter Bourke's 1998 album Duality (flac) track Shadow Magnet, Fleet Foxes - Blue Ridge Mountains (flac) and Derek and The Dominos - Layla (mp3 - 320).
> 
> ...


 


 With the W1000X+Lyr combo, I noticed a slight background hum that I didn't get with the LCD-2 or K701. Did you notice this as well? I attribute this to the high sensitivity of the W1000X compared to the other headphones., and I also had to reduce the volume level on the Lyr to around 8-8.30 because of this. (I use a Benchmark DAC1 as source for the Lyr)


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





> With the W1000X+Lyr combo, I noticed a slight background hum that I didn't get with the LCD-2 or K701. Did you notice this as well? I attribute this to the high sensitivity of the W1000X compared to the other headphones., and I also had to reduce the volume level on the Lyr to around 8-8.30 because of this. (I use a Benchmark DAC1 as source for the Lyr)


 
   
  I didn't notice a hum.
  Source is an Eastern Electric Minimax Tube Dac with Musical Fideltiy V-Link.
  Certainly not with the W1000x. I would think that a hum would exist with the W2000x  as it seemed to have lower sensitivity. I had to raise the volume with W2000x, lower it with the W1000x. Maybe what you hear is caused by the Amp/dac combo?


----------



## MrScary

msninja said:


> With the W1000X+Lyr combo, I noticed a slight background hum that I didn't get with the LCD-2 or K701. Did you notice this as well? I attribute this to the high sensitivity of the W1000X compared to the other headphones., and I also had to reduce the volume level on the Lyr to around 8-8.30 because of this. (I use a Benchmark DAC1 as source for the Lyr)






Did you plug the Lyr into a different room in your house you could have some bad current in that room that seems to be a common issue going around. I have no hum on my Lyr even with sensitive headphones


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 No, I just plugged in my W1000X just after I used any of my other headphones (Lcd-2, K701), and I only noticed the hum on the W1000X. I have since sold them, so I can't try it out any furthyer. It was never any big issue, it was barely noticable, and only when there was no music playing. I will test with my alessandro ms-1i tonight and see if I can reproduce the hum with them as they're quite sensitive as well.
   
  Nevertheless, interesting that you have not noticed them same thing!


----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





> No, I just plugged in my W1000X just after I used any of my other headphones (Lcd-2, K701), and I only noticed the hum on the W1000X. I have since sold them, so I can't try it out any furthyer. It was never any big issue, it was barely noticable, and only when there was no music playing. I will test with my alessandro ms-1i tonight and see if I can reproduce the hum with them as they're quite sensitive as well.
> Nevertheless, interesting that you have not noticed them same thing!


 
   
  I will try to give them a another listen tonight without any music. It's possible the hum is there but I missed it because I was listening to music that blocked the hum, and I really wasn't paying attention to the dead spots around the music. I did notice a hum with a pair of Monster Golds earphones, but that would be expected.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> X2  There is no such thing as a dumb question.


 

 What color is yellow?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> What color is yellow?


 
  Never misunderestimate the power of the question.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  In light, the color yellow is the mixture of red, green, and blue, in the proper proportions.  *YELLOW *(#ffff33)


----------



## Anaxilus

Yeah I couldn't decide between CMYK or RGB.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Want me to try a better (or worse) question?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think there is a limit to the absurd myself.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> What color is yellow?


 
   
   
  Light in about the 570–590 nm wavelength.  No need for RGB or CMYK.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Yeah I couldn't decide between CMYK or RGB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL!!  I think you win!   About 90%Y, 1%C, and 9%K.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Light in about the 570–590 nm wavelength.  No need for RGB or CMYK.


 
  Good answer, although 570nm is a wee bit green!!
   
  Edit:  I take that back depending upon the spectral chart one consults, it would seem that 575nm is about spot on yellow.


----------



## Anaxilus

A personal favorite from an American Airlines stewardess.  "Would you like the chicken or the Lasagna?  We're out of Lasagna."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I could go on but.... 
   
  Actually that's a yellow shade of green.  Plus it's a bit on the bright side.


----------



## maverickronin

More information on Yellow.


----------



## Anaxilus

Not gonna do it.  >.<


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> A personal favorite from an American Airlines stewardess.  "Would you like the chicken or the Lasagna?  We're out of Lasagna."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yup, in my haste and rush to judgment, I erred.  Make that #ffff00.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Not gonna do it.  >.<


 
  You were going to ask me how many times a day I kicked the cat and put the dog outside?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> You were going to ask me how many times a day I kicked the cat and put the dog outside?


 

 Only if it's Mai Tai.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Only if it's Mai Tai.


 
  Mai Tai has mystical powers.  If one were to attempt kicking Mai Tai, one would find oneself on the outside looking in.  Introspection is sometimes good.


----------



## grokit




----------



## Carlsan

Quote: 





> > No, I just plugged in my W1000X just after I used any of my other headphones (Lcd-2, K701), and I only noticed the hum on the W1000X. I have since sold them, so I can't try it out any furthyer. It was never any big issue, it was barely noticable, and only when there was no music playing. I will test with my alessandro ms-1i tonight and see if I can reproduce the hum with them as they're quite sensitive as well.
> > Nevertheless, interesting that you have not noticed them same thing!


 

  
  Quote: 





carlsan said:


> I will try to give them a another listen tonight without any music. It's possible the hum is there but I missed it because I was listening to music that blocked the hum, and I really wasn't paying attention to the dead spots around the music. I did notice a hum with a pair of Monster Golds earphones, but that would be expected.


 


  Listened to the W1000X with the Lyr last night again, and noticed no hum.


----------



## jamato8

Are there any impressions lately of the LCD-2 and the HD650 with this amp? And any further comparisons to other high end amps while driving the HE-6?


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Are there any impressions lately of the LCD-2 and the HD650 with this amp? And any further comparisons to other high end amps while driving the HE-6?


 


 I've tried it briefly for a few days with a borrowed HD650 with blue cardas cables. I've borrowed the same set a few months back and tried on a Heed Canamp and wasn't very impressed, which I attributed to the Canamp and the fact that I used the DAC in my HK HD990 cd-player. I now used the HD650 with a Squeezebox Touch, Benchmark DAC1 and Lyr and noticed an increase in performance on almost every level. My main gripe with the HD650 on the Canamp was that it felt somewhat anemic and lifeless, even compared to my K701. It definately sounds better now, fuller and not as recessed, but I feel like it's still missing low-end oomph. The latest Foo Fighters album for example sounds great, with fantastic midrange and treble, but compared to the LCD-2 on the Lyr, it still sounds a bit too clinical and lifeless with too little low-bass extension. I know that the LCD-2 is way more expensive, but I just can't help feel the LCD-2 sounds more life-like and warmblooded while the HD650 in this case works more like an analytical tool.
   
  Please note that I have just had a few hours listening time with a HD650 that is not my own and not with stock cables, so take my impressions with a grain of salt!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





msninja said:


> I've tried it briefly for a few days with a borrowed HD650 with blue cardas cables. I've borrowed the same set a few months back and tried on a Heed Canamp and wasn't very impressed, which I attributed to the Canamp and the fact that I used the DAC in my HK HD990 cd-player. I now used the HD650 with a Squeezebox Touch, Benchmark DAC1 and Lyr and noticed an increase in performance on almost every level. My main gripe with the HD650 on the Canamp was that it felt somewhat anemic and lifeless, even compared to my K701. It definately sounds better now, fuller and not as recessed, but I feel like it's still missing low-end oomph. The latest Foo Fighters album for example sounds great, with fantastic midrange and treble, but compared to the LCD-2 on the Lyr, it still sounds a bit too clinical and lifeless with too little low-bass extension. I know that the LCD-2 is way more expensive, but I just can't help feel the LCD-2 sounds more life-like and warmblooded while the HD650 in this case works more like an analytical tool.
> 
> Please note that I have just had a few hours listening time with a HD650 that is not my own and not with stock cables, so take my impressions with a grain of salt!


 
  So if I may restate, if this is a correct interpretation, you find the LCD-2 more organic and natural and the HD650 artificial and lacking dimension with the Lyr? What tubes are being used with the Lyr?


----------



## olor1n

The HD650 is far from clinical and lifeless through the Fun's amp section. I have a Lyr on the way and am hoping it's an improvement, rather than just a different flavor.


----------



## ZorgDK

The Lyr is great with the HD650. The stock tubes gives the HD650 a lot of bass. The 6N1P tubes from Schiit brings the sounds closer and makes the HD650 more analytical (I like that).
   
  I thought the HD650 was organic and full sounding however after getting the HE-6 I can easily relate to the description of the HD650 being clinical and lifeless. The sound is just way bigger, full and more speaker like on the HE-6 compared to the HD650.


----------



## oqvist

Quote: 





warriorant said:


> I just think that many of the folks there simply do not know how to write. They have poor writing skills and because of this they cannot formulate a cohesive review nor can they convey their thoughts about the equipment they are trying to review.  Often there is no direction to the review, they take off and go wherever and then end.  Perhaps I am wrong but I'd like to read something about how a piece of gear articulates MUSIC!  But maybe thats just me.  When I read the DAC-2 review I got a lot of woodworking imagery and with the lyr review some tidbits about dark chocolate.  But hey, the reviews are free so...


 

 They write bad? I can´t use their reviews then to elevate my english? I who thought I was actually making progress since I could decipher some of their latest reviews. Or so I thought anyway 
  They can be a fun read in that sense. Kind of like solving a sudoku


----------



## leesure

OK, I've had the Lyr for a month now and listened quite a bit.  I have NOT tube rolled at all yet, so all comments are based upon the stock setup.
   
  I think the Lyr is a KILLER amp for driving orthos...but not as much for the LCD-2's specifically.  This may change with tube rolling, but in the stock configuration, I find the amp from the mid-bass on up to be too think sounding with the already slightly dark LCD-2's.  This was initially devastating to me.  I had hoped this would be the perfect office setup for the LCD's while processing photos (6-8 hour marathon sessions are not uncommon). 
   
  However, about a week or so ago, the answer literally showed up on my doorstep.  I was hosting a mini-meet and Fang from HifiMan sent his new HE-500's and HE-4's to have at the meet. 
   
  The HE-4's, with their slightly bright overall tonal balance sound FUGGIN'AMAZING with the Lyr.  They are almost as inefficient as their bigger brothers so the 6W are welcome and the warmth of the Lyr tones down the brightness of the HE-4 and makes this combo stunning.  The sparkle is great, the bass slam is palpable and the mids are spot on. 
   
  I'm listening to some Tchaikovsky on the set up right now and the dynamics are great.  I heard the Philadelphia Orchestra perform the same piece a few nights ago and this is a very fair representation of the live music...the highest praise I can offer.
   
  The Lyr has gone from a disappointment to an absolute Godsend.
   
  I know another Head-Fi'er who heard the HS-5LE's with my Lyr at the meet and bought both. 
   
  Now...anyone got some tube reccomendations for the LCD-2's??


----------



## DemonicLemming

If you want to thin things down a bit, the GE gray/smoked glass 6DJ8 maintains good control, detail, and clarity throughout the frequency range, without adding any "meat" to the music.
  
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> Now...anyone got some tube reccomendations for the LCD-2's??


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





leesure said:


> OK, I've had the Lyr for a month now and listened quite a bit.  I have NOT tube rolled at all yet, so all comments are based upon the stock setup.
> 
> I think the Lyr is a KILLER amp for driving orthos...but not as much for the LCD-2's specifically.  This may change with tube rolling, but in the stock configuration, I find the amp from the mid-bass on up to be too think sounding with the already slightly dark LCD-2's.  This was initially devastating to me.  I had hoped this would be the perfect office setup for the LCD's while processing photos (6-8 hour marathon sessions are not uncommon).
> 
> ...


 

 So I guess you tried both the HE 500 and the HE-4 off of your Lyr? If so, were the HE 500's better sounding than the HE-4's, or was it just that the HE-4 seemed to have better overall pairing with the Lyr?


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





leesure said:


> OK, I've had the Lyr for a month now and listened quite a bit.  I have NOT tube rolled at all yet, so all comments are based upon the stock setup.
> 
> I think the Lyr is a KILLER amp for driving orthos...but not as much for the LCD-2's specifically.  This may change with tube rolling, but in the stock configuration, I find the amp from the mid-bass on up to be too think sounding with the already slightly dark LCD-2's.  This was initially devastating to me.  I had hoped this would be the perfect office setup for the LCD's while processing photos (6-8 hour marathon sessions are not uncommon).
> 
> Now...anyone got some tube reccomendations for the LCD-2's??


 
   
  This was exactly my impression of the Lyr/LCD-2 combo with the stock tubes. Once I removed the stock JJs and tried some NOS tubes, things got much, much better. The unpleasant grainy quality I found in the mids went away, and any sort of "treble roll-off" I had experienced disappeared as well.
   
  I've only tried two sets of Amperex (Herleen, Holland) tubes -- one Amperex white label, and one Mullard-branded NOS from the late 60s. As you might expect, they're very similar tubes, and they're both a big improvement over stock.


----------



## Ynoskire

Heerlen, that's like 4 miles from my home, thats a good reason to get better tubes when I've got enough money for a lyr :rolleyes:


----------



## Philimon

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> So I guess you tried both the HE 500 and the HE-4 off of your Lyr? If so, were the HE 500's better sounding than the HE-4's, or was it just that the HE-4 seemed to have better overall pairing with the Lyr?


 
   
  x2! Thanks leesure.


----------



## leesure

I'm not sure if it's just that I had higher expectations fr the HE-500 or if it's he synnergy, but I preferred the HE-4/Lyr combo to even the HE-500/Woo 6SE combo.
   
  I'll sit down with both the HE-500 and HE-4 with the Lyr later to try to clarify that.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





leesure said:


> I'm not sure if it's just that I had higher expectations fr the HE-500 or if it's he synnergy, but I preferred the HE-4/Lyr combo to even the HE-500/Woo 6SE combo.
> 
> I'll sit down with both the HE-500 and HE-4 with the Lyr later to try to clarify that.


 


 Yeah if you can do that for us that would be greatly appreciated. I had been interested in the HE 500 especially after much high praise and pretty bold review of it over at headfonia, but for $900 I'd rather take my chances with the LCD 2, and maybe look at at the HE 4 as an open option. It seems the HE 500's main selling point is being able to be driven a lot easier than others, which gives people more options for amping. But in my situation getting the Lyr, I really don't care how easy it is to drive just rather get a solid ortho without breaking the bank. I figured the HE 4 would be a great option, but it seems to not get as much popularity on here as I thought it would.


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> So if I may restate, if this is a correct interpretation, you find the LCD-2 more organic and natural and the HD650 artificial and lacking dimension with the Lyr? What tubes are being used with the Lyr?


 
   
  Stock tubes.
  I'm not saying that I find the HD650 artificial and lacking dimension in general, just when compared to the LCD-2. It definately improved compared to the Heed Canamp. I still think it's a good headphone, but the overall sound is a lot different between the two. I still have not heard the HD650 with stock cables either, except a couple of minutes a few years ago.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


leesure said:


> OK, I've had the Lyr for a month now and listened quite a bit.  I have NOT tube rolled at all yet, so all comments are based upon the stock setup.
> 
> I think the Lyr is a KILLER amp for driving orthos...but not as much for the LCD-2's specifically.  This may change with tube rolling, but in the stock configuration, I find the amp from the mid-bass on up to be too think sounding with the already slightly dark LCD-2's.  This was initially devastating to me.  I had hoped this would be the perfect office setup for the LCD's while processing photos (6-8 hour marathon sessions are not uncommon).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yup, the Lyr was as good as any amp I paired the 5LEs with at the meet, and there was serious competition there.  I think this has to do with an inherent limitation in resolution of the 5LEs and HE4s, the Lyr with it's gobs of power is just what's neeed.  The LCD2s on the other hand respond really well to power as well as quality and scale up accordingly with the higher end amps, the 5LEs, less so.  Soundstaging was a bit better when I tried it with a Beta22 but not too much to miss.  

 Lee, it completely slipped my mind that the 5LEs have a 4-pin termination and that I could have tried it on your Isabellina.  Next time!  =]
   
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> So I guess you tried both the HE 500 and the HE-4 off of your Lyr? If so, were the HE 500's better sounding than the HE-4's, or was it just that the HE-4 seemed to have better overall pairing with the Lyr?


 

 To me, the 500s are better sounding than the HE-4s, and not just because I prefer the neutral/warmish signature of the 500s over the V-shaped signature of the 4s, the 4s just don't resolve as much detail as the 500s or LCD2s.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





leesure said:


> I'm not sure if it's just that I had higher expectations fr the HE-500 or if it's he synnergy, but I preferred the HE-4/Lyr combo to even the HE-500/Woo 6SE combo.
> 
> I'll sit down with both the HE-500 and HE-4 with the Lyr later to try to clarify that.


 
  As promised, I've been sitting here for about an hour comparing the HE-4's, HE-500's & to a lesser degree the LCD-2's through the Schiit Lyr (a better match for the HE's IMO).
   
  Let me start by saying I think they are all terrific headphones. 
   
  The HE-4's are more aggressive.  That is, they are more forward and in-the-head than the HE-500's.  They are also the brighter of the two.  Cymbals are more up front and in your face.  The base is solid and strong on the 4's, while it's a little less evident, but extends deeper and with slightly more detail with the 500's.  The mid range is warmer on the HE-500's, but that's not to say they were very cold on the 4's.  The soundstage is where the 500's really start to pull away.  There is more 3-dimensionality with the 500's. 
   
  When listening to _Brothers Under the Bridge_ from The Cowboy Junkies Early 21st Century Blues, the subtle snare drum in the bridge is clearly placed well behind the other artists in its own space, while the HE-4's place it more up front.  The vocals were warmer on the 500's as well, but again not so much as to preclude the 4's.  The cymbal also tended to ring with the HE-500's while the 4's rendered them without the lingering decay.
   
_Mustang Sally_ from The Commitments Soundtrack showed that already-bright recordings suffer with the HE-4's...that track left me feeling fatigued with the HE-4's while the 500's were less aggressive up top and the added warmth in the mids and upper bass gave greater muscle to the male vocals.  There was definitely a better top-to-bottom rightness to the 500's on this driving blues rock.  This track has layer upon layer of instruments and the HE-500's did a great job of keeping that from becoming to congested.  Both cans featured very punchy dynamics and comfortably reproduced the demanding drum passages when driven by the powerful Lyr.  _Try a Little Tenderness_ from the same album showed that both can be subtle as well...but the 500's moreso.  Again they were able to render a deep and accurate soundstage better than the HE-4's.
   
  Switching to Classical, Hillary Hahn's very forward interpretation of Tchaikovsky's _Violin Concerto in D_ shows the greater width of the HE-500's soundstage as well as the warmer tones.  However, this piece also showcased the LCD-2's strengths.  When I slipped them in, they did an equal job handling Ms. Hahn's virtuosic solos, but they outshined both the HE's when it came to the tonality and gravitas of the orchestral sections.  The HE's did both comfortably beat the LCD-2's in soundstage width, tho. 
   
  In the end, I will be keeping my LCD-2's as my primary reference listening headphones.  I will also be keeping the HE-4's, not because they are better than the HE-500's...that are not.  Simply because I think they represent a better value in my system for what I will be using them for...background music while working. I have trouble justifying the additional $450 when I am unlikely to notice the difference in soundstage when I'm focused on a task.
   
  The HE-500's are a very good headphone and mate well with the Lyr.  They best the LCD-2's in soundstage width and depth.  They best the HE-4's in top to bottom timbre and tone as well as detail resolution and retrieval.  They are easier to drive than the others in the HE lineup. I regret not having the HE-6 here to add to this review, but I can say comfortably that if you like the HifiMan house sound, you will like these headphones and you won't have to drive them with a speaker amp.


----------



## ZorgDK

leesure, thanks for the writeup. interesting comparison.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


leesure said:


> As promised, I've been sitting here for about an hour comparing the HE-4's, HE-500's & to a lesser degree the LCD-2's through the Schiit Lyr (a better match for the HE's IMO).
> 
> Let me start by saying I think they are all terrific headphones.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey Lee, I tried my 5LEs with a Sony receiver I had lying around and it's doing just as good a job driving the 5LEs as your Lyr did.  I actually think it sounds better as the Lyr is a bit warmer and imparted than on every track.  The Lyr had more power to spare and I'm sure I'd get more out of the receiver if I used speaker taps but I'll probably just pick up a vintage receiver instead.  Power output should be more than enough.
   
  Good comparison!  
   
  You should try the 5LEs, going back and forth between them and the HE4s on your Lyr this past weekend I definitely preferred the 5LEs for it's tonal balance, they were also less fatiguing.


----------



## leesure

Thanks, but I'm digging the Lyr/HE-4 combo right now.  I think I'll stick with it for a while.  Fang made me a nice deal to keep from having to ship back the 4's.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


leesure said:


> Thanks, but I'm digging the Lyr/HE-4 combo right now.  I think I'll stick with it for a while.  Fang made me a nice deal to keep from having to ship back the 4's.


 
  What tube are you using with the Lyr? Since the Lyr seems to really change with tube choice, which is a good thing in my opinion, the warmth or lack of in the sound can be greatly affected. 
   
  I should have mine the early part of next week. I will stick the tubes in the oven and get them warmed up. :^)
   
  Actually some people do heat old tubes before using them in an oven. This activates the getter, which absorbs excess gas in the tube. I haven't done that but I have used my tube tester to have the heater of the tube going, which heats the tube and helps to activate the silver getter to do what it is supposed to do.


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> Quote:
> What tube are you using with the Lyr? Since the Lyr seems to really change with tube choice, which is a good thing in my opinion, the warmth or lack of in the sound can be greatly affected.
> 
> I should have mine the early part of next week. I will stick the tubes in the oven and get them warmed up. :^)
> ...




I am curious as well what tube you are using in the Lyr as it is very sensitive to tube rolling?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's supposed to have been done at the factory.


----------



## leesure

I'm using just the stock tubes at present.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> That's supposed to have been done at the factory.


 

 I am referring to old tubes. NOS that have sat for years. They will take up gas molecules and that is where the getter comes in.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I am referring to old tubes. NOS that have sat for years. They will take up gas molecules and that is where the getter comes in.


 

 Ok, makes sense.  Thx.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  Sorry to be scarce. Finishing up a bunch of work on another product.
   
  Just a quick note: we're shipping Lyrs again (since the 10th), so if you have been waiting a while, you're probably only a day or so away from shipping. For newer orders, we're running a continuous 4th run starting next week, so we will *finally* be in a stocking position before the end of the month.
   
  Best,
  Jason


----------



## leesure

Thanks Jason...any news on the DAC(s)??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jronan2 said:


> Yeah if you can do that for us that would be greatly appreciated. I had been interested in the HE 500 especially after much high praise and pretty bold review of it over at headfonia, but for $900 I'd rather take my chances with the LCD 2, and maybe look at at the HE 4 as an open option. It seems the HE 500's main selling point is being able to be driven a lot easier than others, which gives people more options for amping. But in my situation getting the Lyr, I really don't care how easy it is to drive just rather get a solid ortho without breaking the bank. I figured the HE 4 would be a great option, but it seems to not get as much popularity on here as I thought it would.




That's because the HE-4 is overlooked due it being released at the same time as the HE6, and now the HE500 stealing its thunder. I have a strong reason to believe the HE-4 would be quite popular if more people had a chance to hear them.


----------



## blankdisc

or maybe HifiMan doesn't profit on HE-4 as much as they do on HE-6/HE-500. that's why Fang never actually pushed it very hard.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I thought I remembered reading the HE-4 was brought out due to slightly lacking sales of the HE-6; after listening to it, I think it's an absolute steal compared to the price of a lot of mid-fi cans (and sounds better than a lot of them), assuming you have an amp that can drive them properly.  Honestly, given the price and FR of the HE-4, I'm surprised it's not more popular around here.
  
  Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> or maybe HifiMan doesn't profit on HE-4 as much as they do on HE-6/HE-500. that's why Fang never actually pushed it very hard.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> or maybe HifiMan doesn't profit on HE-4 as much as they do on HE-6/HE-500. that's why Fang never actually pushed it very hard.


 


  Since you have(had) both the HE 4 and HE 6, do you think the HE 4 is a good value? How much does the HE 6 sound better, $700+ dollars worth?


----------



## blankdisc

yes, i always believe and have said many times that HE-4 is the best bang for the buck headphone within HifiMan's lineup, especially if you purchase the HE-4/EF5 combo.  it's going to be very difficult to find a better system for just $700 on the market right now. Does HE-6 sound three times better than HE-4 as its price is three times more? NO. Is it worth the upgrade for me? You bet.  it's always comes down to what's your budget and expectation. It's the nature of hi-end audio. The increase of performance is always only a fraction of the additional money you have to pay.
   
  BUT my opinion might change after i receive my HE-500 next week. 
   
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Since you have(had) both the HE 4 and HE 6, do you think the HE 4 is a good value? How much does the HE 6 sound better, $700+ dollars worth?


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> yes, i always believe and have said many times that HE-4 is the best bang for the buck headphone within HifiMan's lineup, especially if you purchase the HE-4/EF5 combo.  it's going to be very difficult to find a better system for just $700 on the market right now. Does HE-6 sound three times better than HE-4 as its price is three times more? NO. Is it worth the upgrade for me? You bet.  it's always comes down to what's your budget and expectation. It's the nature of hi-end audio. The increase of performance is always only a fraction of the additional money you have to pay.
> 
> BUT my opinion might change after i receive my HE-500 next week.


 

 Thanks for the input. Sorry if you said that before a bunch there is just so many posts and info on here I sometimes can't keep track of what i read anymore. Yes please keep us updated with your thoughts. My Lyr is coming tomorrow and now I'm in search of which ortho to pair it with.


----------



## grokit

I think that the HE-500, which just appeared on the Head-Direct website, will be HiFiMAN's best offering yet for the Lyr or the EF5.


----------



## blankdisc

i tend to agree. it's going to be their cash cow. they certainly got mine. 
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I think that the HE-500, which just appeared on the Head-Direct website, will be HiFiMAN's best offering yet for the Lyr or the EF5.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Hey Lee, I tried my 5LEs with a Sony receiver I had lying around and it's doing just as good a job driving the 5LEs as your Lyr did.  I actually think it sounds better as the Lyr is a bit warmer and imparted than on every track.  The Lyr had more power to spare and I'm sure I'd get more out of the receiver if I used speaker taps but I'll probably just pick up a vintage receiver instead.  Power output should be more than enough.


 

 Just wanted to follow up on this post..
   
  So my Sony STR-D715 does  great job with the 5LEs from the HPO.  As I mentioned in that last post, I did manage to chase down a vintage Pioneer receiver.  It has gobs of power as well.  What's lacking in comparison to my somewhat modern (1995) Sony receiver and the Schiit Lyr is extension and tact to the soundstage, some 3-blob going on.  It's also a little harsh sounding, probably just needs a recap.  
   
  Tough deciding whether to speaker tap my 5LEs from my Sony or buy a Lyr and call it a day.  I don't think I want to hunt down another vintage or deal with the hassle of recapping.  =/


----------



## leesure

The other advantage with the Lyr is size.


----------



## sphinxvc

Yep, and it's better looking than my Sony black behemoth, which is an eyesore.  The Lyr is a_ lot_ better looking in person than it is in pictures.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Smaller than people would possibly believe it'd be considering it's power.


Also

HE4: $450
HE500: $900
HE6: $1000+

They BETTER be worth that staggering price increase over the HE-4, lol. Unfortunately, that's too rich for my blood. Ignorance is bliss. Besides, the HE-4 is my backup to the D7000 anyway. I'm moving on to different hobbies now.


----------



## grokit

You could try a lot of different amps with a speaker tap adapter, I recommend investing in one.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Smaller than people would possibly believe it'd be considering it's power.
> 
> 
> Also
> ...


 

 What about the 5LEs?  $500 used right now.  If one seeks the reference-type tonal balance the 500s or 6 provide, it's only $100 or so away in the 5LEs.  They're even less known and more bang for buck (if you like reference type sound) than the 4s.


----------



## olor1n

Made a conscious effort to lower expectations prior to receiving the Lyr. I've been generally very happy with the HD650 through the Audio-GD Fun's amp section, but wanted a bit more zest and musicality. I only have stock tubes at the moment (unfortunately getting a faint but continuous static from one of tubes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but initial impressions are good.
   
  I suspected the Fun's discrete amp to be very good in the first place (for a budget combo) and the Lyr strengthens that belief. The Fun is certainly more transparent, but where the Lyr has my preference is in the separation, body and slam it conveys. It's a musical, toe-tapping presentation, making the Fun sound somewhat clinical in comparison. It's not a night and day difference that makes the Fun's headphone amp redundant, but I'm quite pleased with the Lyr. There's room for improvement that I suspect may be found through synergy with the right tubes.


----------



## olor1n

For future peace of mind, does anyone know if the Lyr's 5 year warranty is transferable?


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Made a conscious effort to lower expectations prior to receiving the Lyr. I've been generally very happy with the HD650 through the Audio-GD Fun's amp section, but wanted a bit more zest and musicality. I only have stock tubes at the moment (unfortunately getting a faint but continuous static from one of tubes
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Once you get those crummy JJ's out of the Lyr the HD650's will really sound good.. I would suggest the 6N23p's for the HD650's might want to visit the tube rolling forum for the Lyr.


----------



## blankdisc

i have actually tried HD650 with Lyr before i sold it. Not impressed. I am not saying that HD650 is not good, or Lyr is not good. It's just not a good combo, or HD650 doesn't benefit that much from Lyr's power. If you are going to stick with HD650, then Schiit's other amps will probably be better.


----------



## olor1n

Why would I downgrade to their other amps when I already have the Lyr? Every component in my chain contributes to a presentation that I'm mostly happy with at this early stage. I'll eventually look to refine the sound and I suspect this may be achieved through finding tubes that not only has synergy with these cans, but also with the rest of my chain.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The stock tubes are quite... bad, to be honest. Changed to the Valhalla tubes and my mind instantly changed. I have zero desire to tube roll after these. I'm 100% satisfied with them, whereas I was somewhat 'meh' about the stock tubes.


----------



## ocswing

Higher up the food chain when you set up your whole rig you also have to think about synergy between components. If you're happy with the sound you're getting then that's awesome. He was just saying that he didn't think the synergy between the HD650 and the Lyr was very good. Even though the Valhalla or Asgard may cost less it's not really a downgrade if they have better synergy with the headphone in question. 
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Why would I downgrade to their other amps when I already have the Lyr? Every component in my chain contributes to a presentation that I'm mostly happy with at this early stage. I'll eventually look to refine the sound and I suspect this may be achieved through finding tubes that not only has synergy with these cans, but also with the rest of my chain.


----------



## olor1n

Sorry I wasn't blunt enough for you to understand what I was saying. My point was that blanket statements like the Lyr lacking synergy with the HD650 (or any headphone for that matter) isn't really that helpful, as all components in a chain (dac, amp, cables etc) combine to present what's heard. Personal preference aside, there are too many variables, and unless that person has the exact same gear, configured in the exact same way, such comments are redundant imo.


----------



## shanep91

Does anyone have any experience with low impedance dynamics (D5000/ W1000) or is that a bad match for the Lyr?
   
  Thanks


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





blankdisc said:


> i have actually tried HD650 with Lyr before i sold it. Not impressed. I am not saying that HD650 is not good, or Lyr is not good. It's just not a good combo, or HD650 doesn't benefit that much from Lyr's power. If you are going to stick with HD650, then Schiit's other amps will probably be better.


 


  Are you basing this on the stock JJ tubes if so then the 650's only sound OK if you run some other tubes they sound fantastic


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Sorry I wasn't blunt enough for you to understand what I was saying. My point was that blanket statements like the Lyr lacking synergy with the HD650 (or any headphone for that matter) isn't really that helpful, as all components in a chain (dac, amp, cables etc) combine to present what's heard. Personal preference aside, there are too many variables, and unless that person has the exact same gear, configured in the exact same way, such comments are redundant imo.


 


  I second that to many people are so general your source,DAC amp tubes. cables all play into the sound


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

shanep91 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with low impedance dynamics (D5000/ W1000) or is that a bad match for the Lyr?
> 
> Thanks




D7000. Not a good combo with the stock tubes. The Valhalla tubes make it worthwhile. Not that I advise using the Lyr with sensitive headphones. It possibly blew my right driver, as well as MacedonianHero's Ed.8. I'm not gonna even gonna try to see if the Lyr was the issue, so I'm sticking to the E9 for my D7000.

In any case, the Lyr hums with all easy to drive headphones that I have used. It's dead silent with my HE-4 however.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> shanep91 said:
> ...


 
  Wait, you are saying it blew the drivers? That would either be because there was too much current being pumped through them or there is DC on the output. So an Ed. 8 has blown drivers after using it with the Lyr?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Wait, you are saying it blew the drivers? That would either be because there was too much current being pumped through them or there is DC on the output. So an Ed. 8 has blown drivers after using it with the Lyr?


 

 I have run my Futuresonic M8's with the Lyr and they are 32ohms I get no humm of any kind and it surely didnt blow the drivers sounds like someone has an itchy twitch to turn up the lyr to much


----------



## shanep91

Thanks for the reply, had a feeling that would be the case.
   
  Asgard should be a good match


----------



## ZorgDK

I've been using my 32ohm Superlux HD681 with the Lyr. No issues, just a little overkill with 6W as those cans work just as good unamped.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrscary said:


> I have run my Futuresonic M8's with the Lyr and they are 32ohms I get no humm of any kind and it surely didnt blow the drivers sounds like someone has an itchy twitch to turn up the lyr to much




Actually, no. I've used quite a few headphones, in the very same ways as I used the D7000. The D7000's right driver started crackling and distorting one week after getting the Lyr. MH's ED.8 also had a driver mess up within a week of being used with his Lyr. I sincerely doubt it's a coincidence. I'm not stupid or abusive with my equipment. :rolleyes:


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> mrscary said:
> ...


 
  Have you contacted Lyr about this? DC offset could ruin a driver.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 



 well you have had issues that that many have not as Jamato8 said you probably have some bad power which seems to be a common issue with complaints about the Lyr I have even tested 16 ohm cheapies and they still dont blow or hum


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah. I got my D7000 fixed and decided to just not use them on the Lyr. Besides, I don't like the noise the D7000 has through the Lyr, and prefer it with the absolutely dead silent E9. If the Lyr ruins one of my other headphones, then I'll contact Schiit. As it stands, I don't have enough evidence to point my finger at the Lyr, though I'm pretty sure its what did my D7000 in. Only once did I leave the D7000 plugged in when turning off the Lyr, and the sound scared me enough not to do it again with any of my cans. My D7000 worked for days after that.


----------



## jamato8

So with the Lyr there is a DC offset when you turn it off and on and you aren't supposed to have your phones plugged in when turning off or on?


----------



## olor1n

Under what conditions can the Lyr kill your cans? What are the safe practice measures you guys go through to avoid these scenarios?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Under what conditions can the Lyr kill your cans? What are the safe practice measures you guys go through to avoid these scenarios?


 


  I don't use any precautions and have had no probs wih any of my cans guess I have good electrical current..


----------



## olor1n

Actually, I'm more concerned about something failing while wearing cans and suddenly you have permanent hearing loss. Is this possible with this amp topology?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well like I mentioned before, I left my D7000 plugged in once while turning off the Lyr, and it made an abrupt thump loud enough to scare the jeebez outta me. From then on, I don't have any headphone plugged in when turning the Lyr ON/OFF. It didn't sound natural, that's for sure.


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





shanep91 said:


> Does anyone have any experience with low impedance dynamics (D5000/ W1000) or is that a bad match for the Lyr?
> 
> Thanks


 


  I've tried W1000X and didn't think it improved significantly compared to a Heed Canamp and headphone out of a Benchmark DAC1 or Little Dot MK II at least, it sounds pretty much just as great on all those amps. I used the Benchmark as DAC during all these tests. I also got a faint hum that was noticable when no music was playing, though this seems not to be the case with all W1000X+Lyr owners as stated earlier in this thread.


----------



## blankdisc

sorry, didn't realize that you have already bought the Lyr. If you are happy about it, then that's all it matters.  i was just simply telling you guys my experience with Lyr and HD650. I think that even Jason himself at some point said that his other amps are probably better with headphones like HD650.
  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Why would I downgrade to their other amps when I already have the Lyr? Every component in my chain contributes to a presentation that I'm mostly happy with at this early stage. I'll eventually look to refine the sound and I suspect this may be achieved through finding tubes that not only has synergy with these cans, but also with the rest of my chain.


----------



## grokit

The Lyr blew out my Edition 8 drivers as well, that's one of the reasons why I returned it. As Schiit warns on their webpage, they won't be responsible if you blow up your headphones; that's what Jason effectively told Peter (MH) and myself in response. Luckily mine were still under warranty as well, as are all Edition 8s at this point as they were released in July 2009 with 2-year coverage in the US.
   
  Obviously both Ultrasone and Schiit should post some disclaimers and warnings about this particular pairing; I sincerely hope the D7000 is an isolated issue. I did not turn my Ed8 up to a loud level at all, and it was with NOS Amperex gold pin 6922s which are fine tubes. The Lyr is a bad choice for low impedance, high sensitivity dynamics, and after this experience I don't even want my Ed8 in the same building as a Lyr.
   
  It is certain that as time marches on there will be more to this story


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Lyr blew out my Edition 8 drivers as well, that's one of the reasons why I returned it. As Schiit warns on their webpage, they won't be responsible if you blow up your headphones; that's what Jason effectively told Peter (MH) and myself in response. Luckily mine were still under warranty as well, as are all Edition 8s at this point as they were released in July 2009 with 2-year coverage in the US.
> 
> Obviously both Ultrasone and Schiit should post some disclaimers and warnings about this particular pairing; I sincerely hope the D7000 is an isolated issue. I did not turn my ED8 up to a loud level at all, and it was with NOS Amperex gold pin 6922s which are fine tubes.
> 
> It is certain that as time marches on there will be more to this story


 
  Dude what did you do turn the knob tot the 12:00 positiion... I have ultrasone 700's and have used them on the lyr alot lately and I didn't blow them up


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Dude what did you do turn the knob tot the 12:00 positiion... I have ultrasone 700's and have used them on the lyr alot lately and I didn't blow them up


 

 Did you even read what you just quoted? I already said that I never turned them up to a loud level. So please don't take this personally, it's a warning for the good of the community. The Lyr was great with my K701 and as a preamp but it's not for everything. If you are trying to say that it's MH and my own fault you are wrong plain and simple, we both know what we are doing and your off-the-cuff reaction is not only condescending but incredibly ill-informed. The 700 is not the same as the Ed8 but good luck with it anyways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So that's two blown Ed. 8s, and one D7000. Can't be mere coincidence. I'm just saying, I personally wouldn't risk running sensitive cans off the Lyr after all this. Just for the peace of mind. I have been daring enough to use my D7000 at pretty quiet levels to test out the Valhalla tubes, but that was very quickly... I got too scared to try it again. My Lyr is gonna be just for my HE-4 and KSC75 (because they're cheap enough and actually benefit from some warmth and power). I don't plan on buying any more headphonesa for a long time... but if I do, its definitely gonna be ones that require some serious Lyr juice. 600ohms, or low sensitivity cans...


----------



## leesure

FWIW, I have run my Grado's off the Lyr with no issues.  It's not all low impedance high sensitivity headphones.
   
  Just curious, was there an action associated with the blowing of the drivers?  Turning it on/off?  High dynamic music?  Not accusing, just trying to identify the commonalities.


----------



## grokit

I did turn the Lyr off with the Ed8 plugged into it, after the source has been turned off as I would with any amp. The tubes were in their break-in period, that's the only possible issue I can think of. My musical choice really shouldn't matter but it was probably some well-recorded Cowboy Junkies, as there are a few songs of theirs that I like to use when evaluating headphones and/or amps for the first time. For some reason, I'm not surprised that Grados are (probably) more resilient. The Ed8 is incredibly efficient for the sound that it puts out, it's known for it's ability to give top performance from an iPod even though it will still improve with a good amplifier so that may have something to do with it.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





leesure said:


> FWIW, I have run my Grado's off the Lyr with no issues.  It's not all low impedance high sensitivity headphones.
> 
> Just curious, was there an action associated with the blowing of the drivers?  Turning it on/off?  High dynamic music?  Not accusing, just trying to identify the commonalities.


 


  They have DC offset bad power in their houses this will cause the phones to blow its not low impedance sensitivity headphones I have ran many low impedance sensititivy headphones with no problems as many others have


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Lyr blew out my Edition 8 drivers as well, that's one of the reasons why I returned it. As Schiit warns on their webpage, they won't be responsible if you blow up your headphones; that's what Jason effectively told Peter (MH) and myself in response. Luckily mine were still under warranty as well, as are all Edition 8s at this point as they were released in July 2009 with 2-year coverage in the US.
> 
> Obviously both Ultrasone and Schiit should post some disclaimers and warnings about this particular pairing; I sincerely hope the D7000 is an isolated issue. I did not turn my Ed8 up to a loud level at all, and it was with NOS Amperex gold pin 6922s which are fine tubes. The Lyr is a bad choice for low impedance, high sensitivity dynamics, and after this experience I don't even want my Ed8 in the same building as a Lyr.
> 
> It is certain that as time marches on there will be more to this story


 
   
  I'm sorry, but I call BS here.  The Lyr's servos would prevent any DC offset in the output.
  Ultrasones have back to back diodes across the drivers to protect them from overload.  Had your ED8 been modified?
   
  I hate internet rumors.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> They have DC offset bad power in their houses this will cause the phones to blow its not low impedance sensitivity headphones I have ran many low impedance sensititivy headphones with no problems as many others have


 
  What?  Just what?  Bad power causes DC offset?  What?  Where did you get this information from?  That's impossible!!!


----------



## jronan2

After a long wait, I finally received my Lyr. Dam this sucker is a lot heavier than I thought it would be, and smaller. Build design is stellar, this thing looks like you can throw it down a flight of stairs and still work, not that I would try that. As of now, I am running the Yulong D100 -> Lyr -> DT 990/600..even with no burn in and stock tubes, and some crappy interconnects and stock power cords. I like the sound of this set up. Harsh treble in the 990's....where? Not to my ears at all at least. Not going to even try my D7000's on the Lyr I love it to much with with my other set up. I can't wait to get my hands on an ortho down the road.


----------



## leesure

Musical choice CAN matter.  I've seen more than one pair of speakers blown by climax of the 1812 Overture. 
   
  Turning it off shouldn't have as much effect as turning it opn, but the latter, regardless of whether the music is playing, can create a spike that I guess might blow sensitive drivers.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey guys,
   
  Sorry that some of you seem to be having problems with Lyr. Out of the literally hundreds of Lyrs shipped, I have personally been contacted by two owners (both mentioned in this thread,) who have had problems with low impedance, high sensitivity headphones. Since I was not in the room with them when they had problems, I can't comment on setup/use/etc. 
   
  So, here's what I know:
   
  1. Lyrs are DC coupled, so if you have *any* DC coming into Lyr from your source, there can be a turn-on/turn-off thump as the DC servo struggles to compensate for it--especially at Lyr's high gain. If you are not 100% certain you don't have DC from your source (as in, the source is DC coupled and may be out of adjustment/servo may be funky/don't have a voltmeter,) you may want to play it safe and not plug in your headphones until after you turn on the Lyr.
   
  2. Lyrs are 100% final listen-tested on our line with Sennheiser HD650s, the same headphone that has tested thousands of Schiit amps. The HD650s go through the full turn-on/turn-off cycle for every Lyr. Those headphones have seen at least 500 turn-on/turn-off cycles on Lyr. No problems there.
   
  3. If you do have problems, I encourage you to talk to us. We don't bite, and we're very helpful. Ask anyone who's talked to us.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I'm sorry, but I call BS here.  The Lyr's servos would prevent any DC offset in the output.
> Ultrasones have back to back diodes across the drivers to protect them from overload.  Had your ED8 been modified?
> 
> I hate internet rumors.


 

 It's not a rumor, it's a fact. If you think that myself or Macedonian Hero is lying that's your problem, but I would implore you to plug an Edition 8 into a Lyr for yourself so you can make a more informed commentary. Just remember that Shiit won't take responsibility if you blow them up as we did, they have issued a warning and so have we. If you want to criticize us rather than trying it for yourself, then I call BS on you. Notice how Jason hasn't addressed the Ultrasone issue, but his response to both of us was the same. As I have already said, it's a fine amp for some applications but not appropriate at all or others. You can cite electronic principles all day long (and I do respect your knowledge of them), but our actual experience is the _veritas_ in this situation. My Ed8 was completely stock and without issues as was Peter's, and in my case I did not notice any "thump".
   
"Make no mistake: even though Lyr is the same size as Asgard and Valhalla, it’s one of the most powerful headphone amplifiers you can buy. We will not be responsible if you blow up your headphones with it!"


----------



## leesure

grokit...I think he was referring to the 'DC Offset' comments that were suggesting that there is some inherint defect in the design of the Lyr. 
   
  I don't doubt that you had an issue...that's why I was asking for the specifics so we can all learn how to avoid issues in the future.


----------



## grokit

I don't know about DC offset and therefore have not commented on that. I do know that I've never had any issues with the power in my house before and I have run a wide variety of audio equipment.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It's not a rumor, it's a fact. If you think that myself or Macedonian Hero is lying that's your problem, but I would implore you to plug an Edition 8 into a Lyr for yourself so you can make a more informed commentary. Just remember that Shiit won't take responsibility if you blow them up as we did, they have issued a warning and so have we. If you want to criticize us rather than trying it for yourself, then I call BS on you. Notice how Jason hasn't addressed the Ultrasone issue, but his response to both of us was the same. As I have already said, it's a fine amp for some applications but not appropriate at all or others. You can cite electronic principles all day long but our actual experience is the _veritas_ in this situation. My Ed8 was completely stock and without issues as was Peter's, and in my case I did not notice any "thump".
> 
> "Make no mistake: even though Lyr is the same size as Asgard and Valhalla, it’s one of the most powerful headphone amplifiers you can buy. We will not be responsible if you blow up your headphones with it!"


 

 Hey, I really am sorry you had troubles, but I want to make sure we don't throw rocks in all directions indiscriminately.  You know how rumors are.  They take on a life of their own even when there's no truth to them.  I really am shocked that the drivers in the Ultrasones are that sensitive.  The Ultrasone headphone must have a much more limited dynamic range than I thought.  I've got a couple of Ultrasone headphones and although I've never had any troubles with mine, it seems almost inconceivable that they would pop from a turn on thump as the servo settles.  I would encourage you to check your source carefully to see if there's any DC offset in its output.   I assume your Lyr was not found to be responsible for the problem (as in any detectable DC offset in its output.)
   
  If your Ultrasones were stock, then Ultrasone should replace them for free, as their demise almost had to have been due to a manufacturing defect in the driver.
   
  The cautionary note from Schiit is to warn boneheads not to crank it up too much.  I was not meaning to imply you were complicit in any such shenanigans.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Grokit (and all),
   
  There seems to be confusion about DC offset. DC offset does not come from your AC line (at least not in a properly designed component, I can't imagine how poor a design would have to be to pass DC from the AC wall outlet to its own output.) That isn't to say your AC line might not have DC on it, but the transformer will take that out of the equation. Of course, the transformer may not be thrilled at the DC load, but that's another ball of wax. It shouldn't pass DC through to the output. 
   
  What I was referring to was DC offset from your source (CD player, DAC, computer.)
   
  If you're using an uber-cool, hand-tweaked, DC-coupled, no-DC-servo source, guess what? It probably has *some* DC offset, because no matter how dialed-in it was at the factory, it will drift over time.
   
  If you're using a DC-coupled source with DC servo, well, some DC servos work better than others. And sometimes they fail. That's a very bad day.
   
  If you're cap-coupled, like from a cheapie iPod or CD player, you're probably fine. Sometimes caps leak, yeah, but that's rare.  
   
  The problem with DC on the input of Lyr is that it will be amplified, until the DC servo corrects for it. If the DC level is high enough, the servo may not be able to correct for it.
   
  Oh, and Ultrasones? The reason I haven't commented on them is that we have no direct experience with them, so anything I say would be complete speculation. We did test Grokit's Lyr when it came back and it had no significant DC offset at the output (<10mv.)
   
  I hope that helps!
  Jason


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> Hey, I really am sorry you had troubles, but I want to make sure we don't throw rocks in all directions indiscriminately.  You know how rumors are.  They take on a life of their own even when there's no truth to them.  I really am shocked that the drivers in the Ultrasones are that sensitive.  The Ultrasone headphone must have a much more limited dynamic range than I thought.  I've got a couple of Ultrasone headphones and although I've never had any troubles with mine, it seems almost inconceivable that they would pop from a turn on thump as the servo settles.  I would encourage you to check your source carefully to see if there's any DC offset in its output.   I assume your Lyr was not found to be responsible for the problem (as in any detectable DC offset in its output.)
> 
> If your Ultrasones were stock, then Ultrasone should replace them for free, as their demise almost had to have been due to a manufacturing defect in the driver.
> 
> The cautionary not from Schiit is to warn boneheads not to crank it up too much.  I was not meaning to imply you were complicit in any such shenanigans.




2 people out of hundreds now tell me where the problem is?


----------



## grokit

Well if my drivers were defective, then Peter's had the exact same defect. Anyone who is in doubt of this incompatibility should try it for themselves, at their own risk of course. I certainly won't be doing it again


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> 2 people out of hundreds now tell me where the problem is?


 

 I think it's with your attitude. How many people out of these hundreds that you are referring to have tried an Edition 8 with the Lyr? Two that I know of, and I haven't heard anyone chime in that hasn't had a problem with that combo so it's two to zero so far.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I think it's with your attitude. How many people out of these hundreds that you are referring to have tried an Edition 8 with the Lyr? Two that I know of, and I haven't heard anyone chime in that hasn't had a problem with that combo so it's two to zero so far.


 
  Honestly, not intending to deflect "blame" in any particular direction, the two events with the ED8, would make me far more suspicious of issues with them, not the amps they happened to be plugged in to.  It's really quick and easy to determine if there's any DC offset in your system, so that question can be eliminated in an instant, or confirmed, for that matter.  Once you know those the facts, then you know where to focus your attention or suspicions.


----------



## grokit

I'm still waiting to hear from someone that has tried the Lyr > Edition 8 combo successfully so wake me up when that happens. Anyone?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I'm still waiting to hear from someone that has tried the Lyr > Edition 8 combo successfully so wake me up when that happens. Anyone?


 
   
  Have you checked your source gear for DC offset yet?


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Have you checked your source gear for DC offset yet?


 
   
  Okay, Ill give it a try. Multimeter > DC mA setting > probes to an RCA out while music is playing?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Okay, Ill give it a try. Multimeter > DC mA setting > probes to an RCA out while music is playing?


 

 Use the mV setting.  You want to measure DC Voltage offset.  If DC offset is present, music should not have to be playing unless your player mutes the output when it's not playing.


----------



## kwkarth

Both of my Ultrasones work and sound fine (such as they are) on the Lyr and incidentally, I measure about 0 to 9mV DC on each output channel of the Lyr loaded @ 50 ohms with a cyclical hunt.  That will not be an issue for any headphone.  
   
  On general principles, I still wouldn't recommend pluggung in your headphones until a few seconds after you've turned the amp on.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Use the mV setting.  You want to measure DC Voltage offset.  If DC offset is present, music should not have to be playing unless your player mutes the output when it's not playing.


 

 There is no difference in the readout when I touch the RCA jack with the probes at that setting. Black to the outside and red on the inside, or reversed.
   
   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Both of my Ultrasones work and sound fine (such as they are) on the Lyr.


 

 Which Ultrasones?


----------



## jronan2

Man the DT 990's sound good out of the Lyr. I really need to get some cash together and get a hifiman or LCD 2.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> There is no difference in the readout when I touch the RCA jack with the probes at that setting. Black to the outside and red on the inside, or reversed.
> Which Ultrasones?


 
  In this case, the 2500 and the 750.  In any case, the drivers that Ultrasone uses are somewhat identical from model to model.  Just minor changes.  Voice coil, if I remember correctly, is the same.
   
  Sounds like your source is ok.


----------



## MacedonianHero

kwkarth said:


> Honestly, not intending to deflect "blame" in any particular direction, the two events with the ED8, would make me far more suspicious of issues with them, not the amps they happened to be plugged in to.  It's really quick and easy to determine if there's any DC offset in your system, so that question can be eliminated in an instant, or confirmed, for that matter.  Once you know those the facts, then you know where to focus your attention or suspicions.




Just a few points of clarification, my Ed. 8LEs are stock, my source is the Cary Xciter DAC and I turned on my Lyr with my Ed. 8LEs already plugged in (with the volume set to ZERO). And I heard a loud pop in both drivers. Then the music was barely audible, the bass was adios. This was the 2nd or 3rd time I had tried them with my Lyr, but the previous times, my Lyr was already ON, with the volume set to ZERO (as it is always on my amps when I plug in my headphones).

Initially, I was certain it was an issue with my Ed. 8s (Ultrasone was fantastic about the repair...couldn't speak more highly of them actually it was that smooth), but then I heard about grokit's issue, I thought about the odds of lightening striking in the same place twice. Now I'm not so sure.

Maybe the Ed. 8s are just too sensitive for the Lyr, I'm not entirely sure, but I will be basically only be using my Lyr with my orthos or high impedance headphones. Low impedance/highly efficient dynamic headphones need not apply.

If you would like to still use your Lyr with your low impedance/high efficiency dynamic headphones, please be my guest, but I won't be doing that again.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> Just a few points of clarification, my Ed. 8LEs are stock, my source is the Cary Xciter DAC and I turned on my Lyr with my Ed. 8LEs already plugged in (with the volume set to ZERO). And I heard a loud pop in both drivers. Then the music was barely audible, the bass was adios. This was the 2nd or 3rd time I had tried them with my Lyr, but the previous times, my Lyr was already ON, with the volume set to ZERO (as it is always on my amps when I plug in my headphones).
> 
> Initially, I was certain it was an issue with my Ed. 8s (Ultrasone was fantastic about the repair...couldn't speak more highly of them actually it was that smooth), but then I heard about grokit's issue, I thought about the odds of lightening striking in the same place twice. Now I'm not so sure.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Does that DAC have any DC offset?


----------



## MacedonianHero

maverickronin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Does that DAC have any DC offset?




None that I've been able to measure. It's a $1500 Cary DAC and Cary knows what they're doing...trust me.

EDIT: That said, I still absolutely love the sound I'm hearing from my Lyr with both my LCD-2s and HE-6s.


----------



## jamato8

Yes Cary does a pretty job of blocking DC but most all companies do now. DC offset for most all source equipment is something from the past unless it is defective.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jamato8 said:


> Yes Cary does a pretty job of blocking DC but most all companies do now. DC offset for most all source equipment is something from the past unless it is defective.




Agreed. FWIW, measurements of my DAC show no DC offset.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> None that I've been able to measure. It's a $1500 Cary DAC and Cary knows what they're doing...trust me.
> 
> EDIT: That said, I still absolutely love the sound I'm hearing from my Lyr with both my LCD-2s and HE-6s.


 
   
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Yes Cary does a pretty job of blocking DC but most all companies do now. DC offset for most all source equipment is something from the past unless it is defective.


 

 I don't know jack about that company, but I've read horror stories about other expensive "audiophile" marketed products shipping with worse flaws than excessive DC offset from a line out.  I don't know if this is one of those companies that just "tune with their ears" and lets through horrendous flaws that don't cause problems with their specific equipment but smokes other people's but stuff like that does come up from time to time.  If you've measured it though, then its not likely to be the culprit.


----------



## jamato8

There can be DC on the AC line but as mentioned, this will be taken care of by the transformer. I use a huge toroidal that was made for this purpose on the main AC line that I built into a very fine AC filter. Having said this, the stuff that can be on the AC is scary. Hit the on switch at the right time and you can get some really good arcing. Anyway this doesn't help with your problem. I wonder if while everything is cold, there is some DC getting by the gate, so to speak, before the circuits are up and running. Look at what a tube can go through as it is turned on until the filament is on and the current flow due to caps filling. Probably, if needed, a delay circuit for the output would work and has been implemented on a number of amps. I normally turn my preamp on first then the amp and amp off first then the preamp just for this reason even though the preamp I built is transformer coupled (beautiful Audio Note double C core nickel, sorry but they are so fine). :^)


----------



## MacedonianHero

maverickronin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> I don't know jack about that company, but I've read horror stories about other expensive "audiophile" marketed products shipping with worse flaws than excessive DC offset from a line out.  I don't know if this is one of those companies that just "tune with their ears" and lets through horrendous flaws that don't cause problems with their specific equipment but smokes other people's but stuff like that does come up from time to time.  If you've measured it though, then its not likely to be the culprit.




Cary is one of the most respected audio equipment manufacturers out there. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary_Audio_Design

http://www.caryaudio.com/

They have won many awards from Stereophile and The Absolute Sound and are very well respected in the industry. 

FWIW, not only have I measured zero DC offset, I have used my Cary DAC since DAY 1 with my Edition 8s + Concerto with zero issue. And grokit's DAC is not the same.


----------



## Mambosenior

Gentlemen,
   
  Are the rules for safe audio-chain turn on and off different for headphones/headphone amps?
   
  On my speaker system I first turn on preamp (tube); then sources, including Dacs; then finally, after the preamp has been on for a while (5 minutes or so), the amp (tube), with speakers attached, of course. Turn off is done amp first, then sources, and finally preamp. I do same with my headphone system (tube amp with headphones attached and volume at 0, SS everything else).
   
  Any suggestions/recommendations?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Cary is one of the most respected audio equipment manufacturers out there.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary_Audio_Design
> 
> ...


 

 I don't play that far up the ladder and I'm not making any accusations.  I'm just saying that price doesn't guarantee commensurate performance, especially in such a subjective field as audio.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> Cary is one of the most respected audio equipment manufacturers out there.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary_Audio_Design
> 
> ...


 

 I'm going to Cary, NC next week.  I wonder if they'll let me try out their stuff if I drop in.


----------



## Kremer930

I dont think that you can go wrong with either but the Hifiman cans take better to higher power than the LCDs.  Mad Lust loves his HE4 cans with the Lyr.  I love the HE6 but have not heard any of the other HE's.
  
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Man the DT 990's sound good out of the Lyr. I really need to get some cash together and get a hifiman or LCD 2.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I dont think that you can go wrong with either but the Hifiman cans take better to higher power than the LCDs.  Mad Lust loves his HE4 cans with the Lyr.  I love the HE6 but have not heard any of the other HE's.


 
  The HE-6s are less sensitive than the LCD-2s (almost 8dB) but there is no maximum power handling spec that I can find.  They might possibly not be able to handle as much power as the LCD-2s.  No way to know without mfrs. specs.


----------



## kwkarth

As I mentioned in an earlier post:

   

*On general principles, I still wouldn't recommend pluggung in your headphones until a few seconds after you've turned the amp on. *


----------



## Kremer930

I dont know peak power but the general consensus from the LCD amp thread and HE6 threads is that the HE6 continue to improve with more power whereas the LCDs being easier to drive stop improving as much around 2 wpc.  At around 2 wpc the easy wins stop and it comes back to the finesse of the amp.  This is just my summary of 100's of comments. 
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> The HE-6s are less sensitive than the LCD-2s (almost 8dB) but there is no maximum power handling spec that I can find.  They might possibly not be able to handle as much power as the LCD-2s.  No way to know without mfrs. specs.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I dont know peak power but the general consensus from the LCD amp thread and HE6 threads is that the HE6 continue to improve with more power whereas the LCDs being easier to drive stop improving as much around 2 wpc.  At around 2 wpc the easy wins stop and it comes back to the finesse of the amp.  This is just my summary of 100's of comments.


 

  
  Even if all that's true its got nothing to do with how much power it takes to break them.  The LCD-2s are rated for something like 133dB SPL @ 15 watts.  No one seems interested in trying that with their HE-6s to see how much power they take before they break.


----------



## Kremer930

Huh???
   
  You seem to have missed the point of my original comment.  A user was really happy with his new Lyr running his DT990's and was looking forward to buying either some Hifiman or Audeze cans to take advantage of the output of the Lyr.  I was just giving some very general guidance of how each reacts and summarising some threads. 
   
  As for how much it takes to break a HE6...who cares???  Why would you want to make them fail?  I have read of people connecting HE6 to 70-100 wpc speaker posts and listening from a  distance.  With the vast majority of headphone amps power outputs still measured in mW then I think either can has a fair safety margin.
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Even if all that's true its got nothing to do with how much power it takes to break them.  The LCD-2s are rated for something like 133dB SPL @ 15 watts.  No one seems interested in trying that with their HE-6s to see how much power they take before they break.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





mambosenior said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Are the rules for safe audio-chain turn on and off different for headphones/headphone amps?
> 
> ...


 

  
  I do the same, turn on my source first, wait for a few minutes before I turn on my tube amp, I always make sure that the tube amp vol control is turned all the way down. On turn off, with vol again all the way down, I turn off my tube amp first then my source.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I dont think that you can go wrong with either but the Hifiman cans take better to higher power than the LCDs.  Mad Lust loves his HE4 cans with the Lyr.  I love the HE6 but have not heard any of the other HE's.


 

 I'm leaning towards the LCD 2 because I have a feeling the bass response will be perfect for my electronica music preferences. I know it might be stupid to get them without an audition, but I read thread after thread post after post, tried to swift through all the bandwagon info and they just seem the safest bet for me. I was thinking of selling my Dt 990's eventually after  a while to try one of the hifiman's but I don't know now I really like how they sound, they might even sound better with different tubes. I'm waiting on a few reviews by people who are going to be comparing the HE 500 to the HE 4. I know MLE loves them and I consider his opinion valuable since we have common tastes and have had almost all the the same gear, but I really want to see what people think of this comparison.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I dont think that you can go wrong with either but the Hifiman cans take better to higher power than the LCDs.  Mad Lust loves his HE4 cans with the Lyr.  I love the HE6 but have not heard any of the other HE's.


 
  To add the missing number between 4 and 6, I can say that I absolutely love my HE-5 with Lyr. In terms of Orthos are concerned, I've tried LCD-2, HE-5LE and decided that I like the HE-5 better.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I'm leaning towards the LCD 2 because I have a feeling the bass response will be perfect for my electronica music preferences. I know it might be stupid to get them without an audition, but I read thread after thread post after post, tried to swift through all the bandwagon info and they just seem the safest bet for me. I was thinking of selling my Dt 990's eventually after  a while to try one of the hifiman's but I don't know now I really like how they sound, they might even sound better with different tubes. I'm waiting on a few reviews by people who are going to be comparing the HE 500 to the HE 4. I know MLE loves them and I consider his opinion valuable since we have common tastes and have had almost all the the same gear, but I really want to see what people think of this comparison.


 

 Any Hifiman, when properly amped and fed by a good source, will immediately make you put your DT990 up for sale


----------



## floydfan33

Anyone need a kidney?
   
  Just ordered a Lyr and some LCD-2's.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Any Hifiman, when properly amped and fed by a good source, will immediately make you put your DT990 up for sale


 


 Maybe...Or better yet keep the DT 900 and the Hifiman. I haven't heard a headphone with better bass than the DT 990's, which is what I'm hoping for with some LCD 2's. Listen guys I'm not trying to start an argument over how this or that poops on the DT 990's, they just are a personal favorite of mine. Like I said waiting on a few people who are going to be comparing the HE 4 to the HE 500, if they are very similar, $449 HE 4 sounds right up my alley next to some LCD 2's, that should cover anyone's tastes.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





floydfan33 said:


> Anyone need a kidney?
> 
> Just ordered a Lyr and some LCD-2's.


 

 dam bro your not playing around. I didn't have the testicular fortitude to order both at the same time. Buy one eventually pay it off, then start the cycle all over again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Something with the awesome bass of the DT990. I think you would love the HE-4 (though it does lose just a smidge amount of the bass, but it sounds like an 880/990 hybrid with better treble quantity.)

I have a feeling you would do better with a Hifiman than the LCD2, though if you do get the LCD2, I look forward to your comparison. I just don't think the treble would be good enough for my particular taste (just going off what I read). The Hifimans have that sparkle... Mmmm...


----------



## Yuceka

My point was not really about this one poops on that one but a mere comparison in terms of sound. After I got my LCD-2, I didn't see any need to keep my DT990. You can still keep your DT990 for different purposes (movies, gaming, needing more comfort while reading or something). I just wanted to say that if you bought LCD-2 or one of the Hifimans, you are not likely to say: "My DT990 are better" When I had mine, their bass didn't sound natural, it was more of quantity rather than quality, so were the highs and no quality midrange either. Maybe in your case, the best thing to do is to buy, listen and sell the ones you don't like on the FS forum here. 
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Maybe...Or better yet keep the DT 900 and the Hifiman. I haven't heard a headphone with better bass than the DT 990's, which is what I'm hoping for with some LCD 2's. Listen guys I'm not trying to start an argument over how this or that poops on the DT 990's, they just are a personal favorite of mine. Like I said waiting on a few people who are going to be comparing the HE 4 to the HE 500, if they are very similar, $449 HE 4 sounds right up my alley next to some LCD 2's, that should cover anyone's tastes.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


kremer930 said:


> Huh???
> 
> You seem to have missed the point of my original comment.  A user was really happy with his new Lyr running his DT990's and was looking forward to buying either some Hifiman or Audeze cans to take advantage of the output of the Lyr.  I was just giving some very general guidance of how each reacts and summarising some threads.
> 
> As for how much it takes to break a HE6...who cares???  Why would you want to make them fail?  I have read of people connecting HE6 to 70-100 wpc speaker posts and listening from a  distance.  With the vast majority of headphone amps power outputs still measured in mW then I think either can has a fair safety margin.


 

 I suppose compiling contexts did make me miss the point.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


jronan2 said:


> I'm leaning towards the LCD 2 because I have a feeling the bass response will be perfect for my electronica music preferences. *I know it might be stupid to get them without an audition*, but I read thread after thread post after post, tried to swift through all the bandwagon info and they just seem the safest bet for me. I was thinking of selling my Dt 990's eventually after  a while to try one of the hifiman's but I don't know now I really like how they sound, they might even sound better with different tubes. I'm waiting on a few reviews by people who are going to be comparing the HE 500 to the HE 4. I know MLE loves them and I consider his opinion valuable since we have common tastes and have had almost all the the same gear, but I really want to see what people think of this comparison.


 

 It's only stupid considering you live in LI and head-fi meets hit the tristate area, oh, about 4 times a year.  You really should get to one and have an audition, take advantage.  Of course, if you have money to burn, that's a different thing.  =]


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> My point was not really about this one poops on that one but a mere comparison in terms of sound. After I got my LCD-2, I didn't see any need to keep my DT990. You can still keep your DT990 for different purposes (movies, gaming, needing more comfort while reading or something). I just wanted to say that if you bought LCD-2 or one of the Hifimans, you are not likely to say: "My DT990 are better" When I had mine, their bass didn't sound natural, it was more of quantity rather than quality, so were the highs and no quality midrange either. Maybe in your case, the best thing to do is to buy, listen and sell the ones you don't like on the FS forum here.


 

 No I agree. If I eventually got a Hifiman AND an LCD 2 there would be no reason at all to keep, the 990's would simply not get used ( this would be waaaaay down the road, too much money to happen quick). 3 headphones is a lot, anymore than that would easily collect dust.  Right now there is only one headphone that I will never get rid of and thats the D7000, you can quote that one.
   
  The 990's just put me in a good mood, make me rock out you know, just like the denons. I'm not sitting there trying to analyze, I'm just getting into the music. I don't always want everything to be balanced, sometimes a true "audiophile sound" may be boring to some. Man I hope i didn't open a can of worms with that statement, just knockin' down a few beers and rambling about on a rainy, boring saturday night.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> It's only stupid considering you live in LI and head-fi meets hit the tristate area, oh, about 4 times a year.  You really should get to one and have an audition, take advantage.  Of course, if you have money to burn, that's a different thing.  =]


 


  No I know. Honestly I have only started getting into this for about 5 or 6 months, you can tell by my join date. I know I could of went to at least one, but just didn't feel up to it just because I don't know too many people on here yet or know as much info as everyone else on the forums. I need to go to a meet though no question.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't feel bad, all my gazillion purchases were blind purchases. Thankfully, almost every headphone has been worthwhile.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Right now there is only one headphone that I will never get rid of and thats the D7000, you can quote that one.


 
  I was saying the exact same thing for my HD650s, but when I got my D7000, HD650 were up for sale. And then I said the same thing for D7000: I'll never sell these. And then after getting LCD-2, D7000 were up for sale  And then I got some Hifimans and due to some financial reasons LCD-2 were up for sale  If you want to keep more than a couple of pair, I understand what you're saying. But sometimes it's more fun to sell and buy stuff more often to get a feeling of what's out there... For their price D7000 are awesome headphones and the best closed I've ever heard (never heard the ED8, so can't comment) but will I buy them again after having heard these Orthos? ummm maybe not


----------



## jronan2

I know you really should never say never on these forums or in live. When i got my Pro 900's i sad man these ain't going no where. D7000's arrive and i realize the Pro 900's are going on the selling block. I just say that about the d7000 because of comfort,easily driven and just a head banging fun can that just good to have even if you have a load of great ortho's around.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> . I just say that about the d7000 because of comfort,easily driven and just a head banging fun can that just good to have even if you have a load of great ortho's around.


 


  Absolutely true


----------



## HK_sends

As long as there is a brick wall around, I can bang my head all day long. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Actually, thanks to the LCD-2s (and Schiit Lyr), I am putting my Denon D7000s up for sale, along with my Grado HF-2.
  And believe, me...*THAT'S* something I never expected to do.
   
  I just wonder how long before the next big thing comes along (LCD-3, anyone)? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I dont know peak power but the general consensus from the LCD amp thread and HE6 threads is that the HE6 continue to improve with more power whereas the LCDs being easier to drive stop improving as much around 2 wpc.  At around 2 wpc the easy wins stop and it comes back to the finesse of the amp.  This is just my summary of 100's of comments.


 
  I think you may have misunderstood me.  I was not commenting on anything but the peak power handling capacity of the HE-6 WRT what is safe for it.  Because it is lower sensitivity than the LCD-2  does not mean that it also has higher maximum power handling capacity.  Just use caution, that's all.  Without manufacturer's spec. we simply do not know.


----------



## grokit

I have seen the term "bottomless pit" thrown around more than once by the more adventurous speaker-tap aficionados on these forums when discussing the HE-6's power-handling capabilities.
  Just sayin'


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have seen the term "bottomless pit" thrown around more than once by the more adventurous speaker-tap aficionados on these forums when discussing the HE-6's power-handling capabilities. Just sayin'.


 
  There is gross misunderstanding and misinformation spread around regarding power requirements and delivery capabilities of amps and headphones.  I think you understand this, but there are many who don't.  It would be a shame for someone to ruin a great pair of HE-6s because thought they were indestructible.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Hum.  Wonder how they'd fare on a Krell monoblock?  Too bad I don't have a set to blow up while testing.  If I need a dedicated speaker amp to drive something, I'd rather spend the money on speakers than headphones, myself.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have seen the term "bottomless pit" thrown around more than once by the more adventurous speaker-tap aficionados on these forums when discussing the HE-6's power-handling capabilities.
> Just sayin'


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> There is gross misunderstanding and misinformation spread around regarding power requirements and delivery capabilities of amps and headphones.  I think you understand this, but there are many who don't.  It would be a shame for someone to ruin a great pair of HE-6s because thought they were indestructible.


 

 Yeah I agree that it would be a shame, and an even greater concern would be ones eardrums. So keep the volume on the minimum and work it up slowly/gradually, be careful, use common sense etc.!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I'm going to Cary, NC next week.  I wonder if they'll let me try out their stuff if I drop in.


 

 You can always call them. They used to have a show room but I haven't dealt with them for years. I used to make the custom bases for their amplifiers and used to talk with Dennis quite a bit but that was like a different lifetime ago and he is long gone. Anyway, they had a number of items set up but who knows now.


----------



## olor1n

Perhaps it's my source synergizing well with the Lyr but whoever said the HD650 and Lyr pairing was crappy is not to be trusted lol. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Also, the dislike for the stock tubes seems overemphasized. Can't wait to hear better tubes if this is what the bottom of the barrel sounds like.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


olor1n said:


> Perhaps it's my source synergizing well with the Lyr but whoever said the HD650 and Lyr pairing was crappy is not to be trusted lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It wouldn't make sense that Lyr would put tubes in their amp that would make it sound bad. There are many options, which is what is fun about tubes, but that is also the point, we all like something just a little different or have a mental idea of what sound ought to be. So you start off with their stock tubes enjoy them or try others. It is all good.


----------



## Misterrogers

To jamoto8s point - I was noticing that the JJs sound better in Lyr to me with my DT990/600s than the 23s. Through conversations with Jason of Schiit (think Duke of Earl), I know they're big DT990/600 fans and used them in tuning Lyr. Each component in our chains has an impact on the sound - for better or worse relative to our tastes. 
   
  Regarding not needing the DT990/600s after acquiring  HE-6 or such - must be something wrong with me  I have four different headphones, and I can't bear to part with them. Each has unique qualities; strengths and weaknesses. I enjoy switching off and getting reacquainted with them every so often. I suppose there's a practical/financial limit to this approach, but I'm not there yet


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Perhaps it's my source synergizing well with the Lyr but whoever said the HD650 and Lyr pairing was crappy is not to be trusted lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As is common to tubes, there is unit to unit variation among tubes.  Tubes need substantial run in to hit their stride.  It is entirely possible that a well run in pair of JJs sounds better than many of the other tubes that have been "tried" and abandoned in the Lyr.  Patience is key with tube gear.  The overall sound of the JJ's in my Lyr have improved substantially since the amp was new.  Hum levels have dropped, resolution and eye blinking impact have improved, etc.  So I totally agree with you that proper credit has not been given to the JJs shipped with the Lyr.  Are there better tubes?  No doubt, but because someone has success with a sample size of one, does not mean that you can expect exactly the same with another single sample of the same.


----------



## leesure

I'll concur that the JJ's in my Lyr have improved since I got them.  The hum is gone and the thickness is receding.


----------



## jamato8

Hey, Hey! I just got my Lyr. Burning it in now but sounds good out of the box. I have some nice IC's but I am using the stock one right now. I have the HE-6 hooked up. The HE-500 sounded fine also. It is nice having the US postal service on this island 8000 miles from the US.


----------



## USAudio

Quote:  





> Hey, Hey! I just got my Lyr. Burning it in now but sounds good out of the box. I have some nice IC's but I am using the stock one right now. I have the HE-6 hooked up. The HE-500 sounded fine also. It is nice having the US postal service on this island 8000 miles from the US.


 
  No wonder they're losing billions: http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/10/news/companies/usps_earnings/index.htm !


----------



## jamato8

That is for sure. The US "gives" 92 million a year to Micronesia, which supports most everything and they "give" a postal service at the same cost as shipping within the US. We pay for it. I am here trying to help but too many handouts and frankly, many are not grateful at all. They just want more. Yes, I am pissed by all the corruption at US tax payer expensive. 
   
  Anyway, enjoying the Lyr with some cheap 6BZ7 RCA's in there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It really does look like the Lyr is gonna be the amp of the year, lol. Everyone is getting one.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> No wonder they're losing billions: http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/10/news/companies/usps_earnings/index.htm !





   
  The post office loses money pretty much by design because they are prevented from making a profit by law, it's in their charter. All they would have to do is raise the price of a stamp a little more that usual to make a profit but they're not allowed to.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I think it's a testament to the design philosophy of the guys at Schiit that a $450 tube amp can be compared favorably to amps costing two to four times the price, is being used to drive everything from $60 Grado cans all the way up to the heavy-hitter $1000+ planar headphones, and encourages some inexpensive tube-rolling for those who have never done it before.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It really does look like the Lyr is gonna be the amp of the year, lol. Everyone is getting one.


----------



## MrScary

demoniclemming said:


> I think it's a testament to the design philosophy of the guys at Schiit that a $450 tube amp can be compared favorably to amps costing two to four times the price, is being used to drive everything from $60 Grado cans all the way up to the heavy-hitter $1000+ planar headphones, and encourages some inexpensive tube-rolling for those who have never done it before.




I agree only if we had polls on this forum we could do votes...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think amps in the $450 range are gonna have an extremely tough time competing with the Lyr at this point. I'd be interested in a SS amp that compares to the Lyr in price and power from Schiit. I hope Schiit decides on making one at some point.


----------



## jronan2

My mom works for the postal service, she's got 11 years to go until retirement. I really hope they get their act together. Just a very poorly ran business, I Ihave to hear it first hand all the time. Greed and poor decision making, useless spending, basically all the reasons why the US is where its at right now. Sorry to go off topic.


----------



## jamato8

Quote:


jronan2 said:


> My mom works for the postal service, she's got 11 years to go until retirement. I really hope they get their act together. Just a very poorly ran business, I Ihave to hear it first hand all the time. Greed and poor decision making, useless spending, basically all the reasons why the US is where its at right now. Sorry to go off topic.


 
  You are right. Then we give the service away without basically free to a country 8 thousand miles away. 
   
  -----------------------------
   
  I have tried the Lyr with my headphones and no hummm.


----------



## jronan2

I get no hum with the DT 990/600 absolutely quiet. I don't have the balls to plug the denon D7000 in and I don't want to waste my time plugging M50's in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm being brave atm, I plugged in my D7000. It gets to my desired volume level at 9 o clock. The 61NP tubes require less on the pot than the stock tubes.

I'm still on the fence as to whether I prefer my E9 or Lyr with my D7000. Definitely the E9 when the Lyr has stock tubes, but with the 61NP.... the playing field is too close to call... Since it's so close, I'll play it safe and stick to the E9 for the D7000.

If my D7000 somehow fails again... then I WILL blame the Lyr.

One thing is still for certain, the mids are obviously more forward on the E9.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Quote:
> You are right. Then we give the service away without basically free to a country 8 thousand miles away.


 

  I thought we just had post offices in commonwealths and territories like Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands. Is that the case, or is there a large US military presence there?


----------



## Frank I

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm being brave atm, I plugged in my D7000. It gets to my desired volume level at 9 o clock. The 61NP tubes require less on the pot than the stock tubes.
> 
> I'm still on the fence as to whether I prefer my E9 or Lyr with my D7000. Definitely the E9 when the Lyr has stock tubes, but with the 61NP.... the playing field is too close to call... Since it's so close, I'll play it safe and stick to the E9 for the D7000.
> 
> ...


 

 If you blow them again Denon may charge you this time. Little confused as to why you would use an amp not designed for them


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because Schiit says the Lyr should be safe to power any headphone aside from the most sensitive like IEMs (obviously paying attention to volume levels). They have been using Grados with the Lyr which I believe is even more sensitive than the D7000. If they charge me, fine. I'm keeping my D7000 no matter what. I'm wondering if that ONE time I left them plugged in when I turned off the Lyr which caused that loud thump was what damaged my driver, and not using the Lyr itself on a normal occasion.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I thought we just had post offices in commonwealths and territories like Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands. Is that the case, or is there a large US military presence there?


 

 None, this was like a territory but given back in the early 90's. The US did a compact with them (no military) so they could get going on their own but all they do is skim the money off and leave out the poor people in the countryside out of the money (help) loop. The US embassy said this is one of the most corrupt governments they deal with. The money is not near as much as other areas but the percentage is very high (that is skimmed by scum).  We have the USDA here and all other agencies and it is sickening. The US does nothing. We have even contacted senators who are supposed to care about corruption and we don't even hear back. There are people here from different parts of the world being paid by US tax dollars to be vice presidents of the college and so on and basically spit on US citizens and we pay their wages.  Any ideas??
  -------------------------------------------------
   
  Wow, the gold grid 6N1P sound so good. The amp went kind of flat and came back. I expect more ups and downs as it settles and the caps form. It is fun to have tubes again. Sure is warm though. :^)


----------



## Yuceka

I just don't understand why people would use Grados with the Lyr. Just because an amp is able to drive K701 and Orthos well doesn't mean that any headphone should be plugged into it


----------



## MrScary

jamato8 said:


> None, this was like a territory but given back in the early 90's. The US did a compact with them (no military) so they could get going on their own but all they do is skim the money off and leave out the poor people in the countryside out of the money (help) loop. The US embassy said this is one of the most corrupt governments they deal with. The money is not near as much as other areas but the percentage is very high (that is skimmed by scum).  We have the USDA here and all other agencies and it is sickening. The US does nothing. We have even contacted senators who are supposed to care about corruption and we don't even hear back. There are people here from different parts of the world being paid by US tax dollars to be vice presidents of the college and so on and basically spit on US citizens and we pay their wages.  Any ideas??
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> Wow, the gold grid 6N1P sound so good. The amp went kind of flat and came back. I expect more ups and downs as it settles and the caps form. It is fun to have tubes again. Sure is warm though. :^)




Wish my gold pin 6n1p's would have come good from Russia they were bad sucks throw in those seimens I want to know your thoughts ... hahahah


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yuceka said:


> I just don't understand why people would use Grados with the Lyr. Just because an amp is able to drive K701 and Orthos well doesn't mean that any headphone should be plugged into it




I'm not using my Lyr with the D7000 because I need to. I'm using it see if the amp's signature is preferable over the E9 I own. For the D7000, it isn't.

In any case, lots of us own various amps and use them with headphones that don't need that much power but benefit from it. Under normal use, amping a sensitive headphone shouldn't damage them....


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm being brave atm, I plugged in my D7000. It gets to my desired volume level at 9 o clock. The 61NP tubes require less on the pot than the stock tubes.
> 
> I'm still on the fence as to whether I prefer my E9 or Lyr with my D7000. Definitely the E9 when the Lyr has stock tubes, but with the 61NP.... the playing field is too close to call... Since it's so close, I'll play it safe and stick to the E9 for the D7000.
> 
> ...


 
  Just don't turn the amp on and off with headphones plugged in.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If my D7000 somehow fails again... then I WILL blame the Lyr.


 
   
  You can't blame the Lyr even though it may be the cause of it: 

 From Schiit's website:
  Make no mistake: even though Lyr is the same size as Asgard and Valhalla, it’s one of the most powerful headphone amplifiers you can buy. We will not be responsible if you blow up your headphones with it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know all this. I'm saying that if my D7000 happens to mess up again soon after just plugging it into my Lyr for a few minutes, then I will have known that the Lyr is most likely what messed them up. I know that the Lyr can blow my drivers if I turn up the knob too high. In my case, I haven't but it still messed up the D7000 the last time.

Regardless of what happens, I'm not mad at the Lyr or anything. I just don't trust it with my sensitive headphones.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think amps in the $450 range are gonna have an extremely tough time competing with the Lyr at this point. I'd be interested in a SS amp that compares to the Lyr in price and power from Schiit. I hope Schiit decides on making one at some point.


 


  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2SA/C2SAEN.htm


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2SA/C2SAEN.htm


 
   
  Six watts at 50 ohms, impressive. And a gain switch for use with more efficient headphones.


----------



## jamato8

No tubes. I love tubes.


----------



## olor1n

Have you listened with your HD650 yet jamato? Eagerly awaiting your findings with various tubes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

olor1n said:


> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2SA/C2SAEN.htm




Oh, I know about it. I meant one from Schiit in the future.


----------



## Kremer930

Schiit already has the 6w category covered. Their next amp will likely play in a different ballpark.


----------



## jamato8

I have around 25 hours now on the Lyr. Sounding a little thin. I have found that often 100 hours is needed for everything to really settle in on many tube amps.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


jamato8 said:


> I have around 25 hours now on the Lyr. *Sounding a little thin.* I have found that often 100 hours is needed for everything to really settle in on many tube amps.


 
   
  I've only heard the Lyr twice, once burnt in, and once not, but that sounds like an accurate description of what they sound like out of the box.  It'll get better.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> olor1n said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2SA/C2SAEN.htm
> ...




Hopefully never a solid state amp from Schiit you have solid state of the brain


----------



## blankdisc

my first impression of HE-500 just in case someone is interested. 

   

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549413/hifiman-introduces-new-he-500-planar-magnetic-headphones/315#post_7478376


----------



## maverickronin

I've got a quick question for you Lyr owners.  Does it hiss at high volumes with low-ish sensitivity 'phones like the T50RP?
   
  I ask not because I plan on ruining my hearing but because subtractive EQ eats a very large amount of overhead.  My Maverick D1 powers them fine without EQ and just barley gets loud enough for me to use EQ on loudness war-ed music, but for music with more dynamic range and especially for moves it just doesn't have the gain or power.
   
  The Lyr sure seems to have that power but if it hisses through all the dialogue it will be just as bad as a weaker amp clipping during an explosion or action scene.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I've got a quick question for you Lyr owners.  Does it hiss at high volumes with low-ish sensitivity 'phones like the T50RP?
> 
> I ask not because I plan on ruining my hearing but because subtractive EQ eats a very large amount of overhead.  My Maverick D1 powers them fine without EQ and just barley gets loud enough for me to use EQ on loudness war-ed music, but for music with more dynamic range and especially for moves it just doesn't have the gain or power.
> 
> The Lyr sure seems to have that power but if it hisses through all the dialogue it will be just as bad as a weaker amp clipping during an explosion or action scene.


 
  If it hisses with T50s and the like, I'm not hearing it.


----------



## jamato8

I get no hiss or hum with any phones that I own. I have not tried it with the JH13's but I don't think it was designed for them. :^)


----------



## jronan2

Dead quiet with DT990/600's, I havent tried any other phones yet, but I have no intention to either. My LCD 2's are coming in tomorrow and I plan on them being dead silent also.
   
  I also received the valhalla tubes (6N1P) and they sound great, better than the stock JJ's, at least with the DT 990's. The unit does run warmer with these tubes tho it seems. I've had the Lyr since saturday and have been very impressed with it, so much so that I ordered LCD 2's quickly which I didn't intend on doing yet. I'm a happy customer so far and cannot wait for what else Schiit comes out with.


----------



## Rope

^^
  More Schiit?


----------



## MrScary

maverickronin said:


> I've got a quick question for you Lyr owners.  Does it hiss at high volumes with low-ish sensitivity 'phones like the T50RP?
> 
> I ask not because I plan on ruining my hearing but because subtractive EQ eats a very large amount of overhead.  My Maverick D1 powers them fine without EQ and just barley gets loud enough for me to use EQ on loudness war-ed music, but for music with more dynamic range and especially for moves it just doesn't have the gain or power.
> 
> The Lyr sure seems to have that power but if it hisses through all the dialogue it will be just as bad as a weaker amp clipping during an explosion or action scene.




I get no hiss or Humm either with any of headphones or IEM's


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I get no hiss or Humm either with any of headphones or IEM's


 

 You tried IEMs with your Lyr? You have balls man.


----------



## MrScary

Yeah M8's 32 ohms


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> If it hisses with T50s and the like, I'm not hearing it.


 


  How about at 12dB past what you'd normally listen at?  Like if you used this EQ for movies.
   

   
  I've read people saying it doesn't hiss at _normal _levels with most 'phones, but something like this will really make you crank the volume past what most people consider normal levels.  There's more likely to be hiss if your really crank the volume and most people here probably wouldn't have normally tried it since most people around here don't seem to use a lot of EQ.


----------



## sferic

Hiss & hum. I'm thinking look elsewhere in your signal chain. Or check for dimmers/ground loop. The Lyr might just be revealing something that was there all along. I had a Prosonus firewire DAC that I thought was just fine until I started upgrading other things. Then a noticeable whine emerged which disappeared with my Apogee Duet. If the Lyr had a hiss or whine I'm sure my PS1000's would pick it up. And they don't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mostly hum with easy to drive headphones like the D7000, M50, and to a lesser extent, the KSC75 and PC360. Nothing with my HE4.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> Mostly hum with easy to drive headphones like the D7000, M50, and to a lesser extent, the KSC75 and PC360. Nothing with my HE4.




For you that is


----------



## Rope

I get a very slight hum with my Denon AH-DM5000's, but indistinguishable when listening to music.  AKG K-701's nodda.


----------



## franklyshankly

I have a question for Lyr owners who have heard it with HD650s. I just received my 650s in the mail and pairing them with my KICAS amp, there is not enough power. I turn the volume all the way up and it's actually not loud enough to listen to (I like to listen kind of loud, hehe) .... but really, it's terribly weak. Many reviews say that the 650s really love to have LOTS of power, so why does it seem like people dont like the Lyr with the 650s? I'm confused. The Lyr should be the perfect amp for 650s!!
   
  The Lyr seems perfect for me because it's cheap-ish, it's nice looking, it's powerful, and I'm really interested in trying out ortho phones eventually, so this seems like a great way to future proof. But if they sound bad with the 650s then they are out of the question.
   
  Can someone comment on specifically why the lyr is bad (or good, if anyone has this experience) with the 650s? I'd really appreciate it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrscary said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > Mostly hum with easy to drive headphones like the D7000, M50, and to a lesser extent, the KSC75 and PC360. Nothing with my HE4.
> ...




Yes, because I'm the ONLY person on this thread who has heard hum with easy to drive headphones.

Oh wait, I'm not.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


franklyshankly said:


> I have a question for Lyr owners who have heard it with HD650s. I just received my 650s in the mail and pairing them with my KICAS amp, there is not enough power. I turn the volume all the way up and it's actually not loud enough to listen to (I like to listen kind of loud, hehe) .... but really, it's terribly weak. Many reviews say that the 650s really love to have LOTS of power, so why does it seem like people dont like the Lyr with the 650s? I'm confused. The Lyr should be the perfect amp for 650s!!
> 
> The Lyr seems perfect for me because it's cheap-ish, it's nice looking, it's powerful, and I'm really interested in trying out ortho phones eventually, so this seems like a great way to future proof. But if they sound bad with the 650s then they are out of the question.
> 
> Can someone comment on specifically why the lyr is bad (or good, if anyone has this experience) with the 650s? I'd really appreciate it!


 
   
  The Lyr isn't bad at all with the HD 650.  The amp sounds a little thin when you get it, but some burn in on the tubes helps the sound mature a good deal.  For many, the stock tubes leave something to be desired, and along these lines tube rolling allows you to customize the sound to your liking.  It has gobs of power, definitely much more than enough for the HD 650.  It's been reported by multiple Head-Fi-ers on this thread that it powers the HE-6 with authority, which is good news considering its one of the more power-hungry headphones on the market.
   
  I can't really think of any complaints offhand, but if I really had to nitpick, I might say pairing the HD 650 with a tube amp gives it a warm sound, which might not be for everybody.  I don't have any problem with a warm sound signature though.
   
  And it runs hot (though reportedly not as hot as the Valhalla).


----------



## leesure

It only hums on songs where it doesn't know the words.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It only hums on songs where it doesn't know the words.


 

 LMAO!


----------



## Mambosenior

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It only hums on songs where it doesn't know the words.
> 
> *(Bah-Da-Bing!)*


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> How about at 12dB past what you'd normally listen at?  Like if you used this EQ for movies.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read people saying it doesn't hiss at _normal _levels with most 'phones, but something like this will really make you crank the volume past what most people consider normal levels.  There's more likely to be hiss if your really crank the volume and most people here probably wouldn't have normally tried it since most people around here don't seem to use a lot of EQ.


 
  Doing that will produce gross distortion from your source itself so I would never do that.  
 If one insists upon a curve like that, use subtractive eq. rather than additive eq.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





rope said:


> LMAO!


 
  I'll be here all week...be sure to tip your waitress!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It only hums on songs where it doesn't know the words.


 
  Now that's funny right there, I do care who you are!!


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





sferic said:


> Hiss & hum. I'm thinking look elsewhere in your signal chain. Or check for dimmers/ground loop. The Lyr might just be revealing something that was there all along. I had a Prosonus firewire DAC that I thought was just fine until I started upgrading other things. Then a noticeable whine emerged which disappeared with my Apogee Duet. If the Lyr had a hiss or whine I'm sure my PS1000's would pick it up. And they don't.


 

 I sould be getting my Lyr in a few days.
  How good is it with the PS1000


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





shahzada123 said:


> I sould be getting my Lyr in a few days.
> How good is it with the PS1000


 

 Dunno about PS1000's, but it sounds great with lowly SR-125i's


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Doing that will produce gross distortion from your source itself so I would never do that.
> If one insists upon a curve like that, use subtractive eq. rather than additive eq.


 


  The DSP doesn't seem to actually have a problem with it since it sounds fine.  No clipping or funky phase issues so as far as I can tell it is doing it subtractivitly.  I've seen a lot of EQ GUIs that just take whatever you st the sliders to a general idea and then accomplish it with the least amount of distortion as possible.  I have a slightly better one that I usually use with moves that's built into ffdshow, but I'm trying to find a good way to run that kind of thing system wide.
   
  I probably won't be using that one for long since it isn't very precise, but I was just showing you the latest one I was fooling around with.  However the DSP actually implements it, its cutting everything but the last octaves by 12dB, not going 12db over and clipping.
   
  And now to simplify my question even further.  With no music playing, does it hiss at some insane volume dial level, like past 3 o'clock or something with something that's a relatively easy to drive ortho like the T50RP?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The DSP doesn't seem to actually have a problem with it since it sounds fine.  No clipping or funky phase issues so as far as I can tell it is doing it subtractivitly.  I've seen a lot of EQ GUIs that just take whatever you st the sliders to a general idea and then accomplish it with the least amount of distortion as possible.  I have a slightly better one that I usually use with moves that's built into ffdshow, but I'm trying to find a good way to run that kind of thing system wide.
> 
> I probably won't be using that one for long since it isn't very precise, but I was just showing you the latest one I was fooling around with.  However the DSP actually implements it, its cutting everything but the last octaves by 12dB, not going 12db over and clipping.
> 
> And now to simplify my question even further.  With no music playing, does it hiss at some insane volume dial level, like past 3 o'clock or something with something that's a relatively easy to drive ortho like the T50RP?


 

 Simple answer, no, my sample does not.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> Can someone comment on specifically why the lyr is bad (or good, if anyone has this experience) with the 650s? I'd really appreciate it!


 
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Lyrs are 100% final listen-tested on our line with Sennheiser HD650s, the same headphone that has tested thousands of Schiit amps. The HD650s go through the full turn-on/turn-off cycle for every Lyr. Those headphones have seen at least 500 turn-on/turn-off cycles on Lyr. No problems there.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> I have a question for Lyr owners who have heard it with HD650s. I just received my 650s in the mail and pairing them with my KICAS amp, there is not enough power. I turn the volume all the way up and it's actually not loud enough to listen to (I like to listen kind of loud, hehe) .... but really, it's terribly weak. Many reviews say that the 650s really love to have LOTS of power, *so why does it seem like people dont like the Lyr with the 650s?* I'm confused. The Lyr should be the perfect amp for 650s!!
> 
> The Lyr seems perfect for me because it's cheap-ish, it's nice looking, it's powerful, and I'm really interested in trying out ortho phones eventually, so this seems like a great way to future proof. But if they sound bad with the 650s then they are out of the question.
> 
> Can someone comment on specifically why the lyr is bad (or good, if anyone has this experience) with the 650s? I'd really appreciate it!


 

 I'm sure it was just the one guy that stated he wasn't too impressed with the Lyr + HD650 pairing. Many more throughout the entirety of this thread have stated how good these cans sound through the Lyr. I hate how myths are perpetuated around these parts and we may have witnessed the birth of a new one.


----------



## ZorgDK

Yes many people have stated that they think the Lyr pairs very well with the HD650. I've posted it several times myself.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It only hums on songs where it doesn't know the words.


 

 Bravo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I hear no hum through the HD650. I've just tested the 32ohm MS-1i and also hear no hum until the dial is turned past 1 o'clock (no music of course). The Alessandro's are surprisingly full bodied and airy through the Lyr.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Dunno about PS1000's, but it sounds great with lowly SR-125i's


 

 That gives me some hope


----------



## franklyshankly

Quote: 





> Yes many people have stated that they think the Lyr pairs very well with the HD650. I've posted it several times myself.


 
  Thanks for the feedback! Sorry if I didn't read through the whole thread, I am getting sick of that! Takes hours! I'll probably be upgrading to the Lyr, selling the KICAS. How can the Lyr be so affordable? It defies logic.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Simple answer, no, my sample does not.


 


  Thank you very much.  Sometimes It seems like I have a hard time actually getting to my point between all the qualifications and explanations.


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> I have a question for Lyr owners who have heard it with HD650s. I just received my 650s in the mail and pairing them with my KICAS amp, there is not enough power. I turn the volume all the way up and it's actually not loud enough to listen to (I like to listen kind of loud, hehe) .... but really, it's terribly weak. Many reviews say that the 650s really love to have LOTS of power, so why does it seem like people dont like the Lyr with the 650s? I'm confused. The Lyr should be the perfect amp for 650s!!
> 
> The Lyr seems perfect for me because it's cheap-ish, it's nice looking, it's powerful, and I'm really interested in trying out ortho phones eventually, so this seems like a great way to future proof. But if they sound bad with the 650s then they are out of the question.
> 
> Can someone comment on specifically why the lyr is bad (or good, if anyone has this experience) with the 650s? I'd really appreciate it!


 


 If you're referring to one of my earlier posts, I wasn't saying that I don't think the HD650 pairs well with the Lyr, I think it does, especially compared to my other amps (Heed Canamp, Little Dot MK II, HPO on Benchmark DAC1), but that I just wasn't very impressed with the actual HD650 headphone when compairing it directly to a LCD-2 which costs a lot more, which is to be expected.


----------



## franklyshankly

Ah! That makes much more sense ... I'm really hoping to find an amp that will sound good with a variety of headphones, including ortho headphones (I would like to upgrade in the future) ... I think this might be the amp for me, at this price it might be the ONLY amp for me, LOL ....


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> Ah! That makes much more sense ... I'm really hoping to find an amp that will sound good with a variety of headphones, including ortho headphones (I would like to upgrade in the future) ... I think this might be the amp for me, at this price it might be the ONLY amp for me, LOL ....


 
  Protect you ears, man, you only get one pair.


----------



## DemonicLemming

To go back to the hum issue, I do get a bit with both my HFI-780s and Dynaphase Sixty cans (and I believe both are low-impedance, average sensitivity) headphones.  Nothing that's audible when music is playing, but it is there, and across different tube selection, too.
   
  Not a problem for me, as I only use the Lyr for my LCD-2s, anyway.


----------



## msninja

Quote: 





franklyshankly said:


> Ah! That makes much more sense ... I'm really hoping to find an amp that will sound good with a variety of headphones, including ortho headphones (I would like to upgrade in the future) ... I think this might be the amp for me, at this price it might be the ONLY amp for me, LOL ....


 


 I think the Lyr is incredibly competent and versatile considering the pricetag. It really can drive pretty much anything. The only issue I've found is the faint hum I get with really sensitive and low-impedance cans like MDR-Z1000 and W1000X, but that seems related to the tubes I got since not all users have had the same issue with these cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero

msninja said:


> *I think the Lyr is incredibly competent and versatile considering the pricetag.* It really can drive pretty much anything. The only issue I've found is the faint hum I get with really sensitive and low-impedance cans like MDR-Z1000 and W1000X, but that seems related to the tubes I got since not all users have had the same issue with these cans.




I would say at 2-3X the price tag. It sounds that good with my orthos (and Gold Lion tubes).


----------



## jronan2

I got my Lyr this past saturday. It sounded so good I said F' it and bought LCD 2's, which have arrived today and currently on my head. Just really blown away, I wrote a little something in the appreciate thread, but I'll just say the Lyr and LCD 2's seem to be made for eachother. I really am at a loss of words, just really happy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jronan2 said:


> I got my Lyr this past saturday. It sounded so good I said F' it and bought LCD 2's, which have arrived today and currently on my head. Just really blown away, I wrote a little something in the appreciate thread, but I'll just say the Lyr and LCD 2's seem to be made for eachother. I really am at a loss of words, just really happy.




Great you're digging the pairing...I think they go very well together. 

Good news, the HE-6s would sound great on your Lyr and be very complimentary to your LCD-2s. :evil:


----------



## jronan2

lol Bro I need to chill for a while. I had no intention on even buying the LCD 2's this quick. I thought I would just fart around with some Dt 990's for a while. That lasted all of what 3 or 4 days. I'm sure I will do something like that in a few months or so. By then Hifiman will have another 5 headphones out lol.


----------



## floydfan33

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> dam bro your not playing around. I didn't have the testicular fortitude to order both at the same time. Buy one eventually pay it off, then start the cycle all over again.


 
   
  Bet you're glad you didn't wait! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My LCD-2's are here, but waiting for my Lyr....my HDP is doing them justice though!


----------



## jamato8

Well I may like the HE500 and the LCD-2 with the Lyr more than the HE-6 and I got it to power the HE-6. That is fine though as the LCD-2 sounds very fine with the Lyr. Great contrasts within the music. My problem is not enough time to listen to music.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Well I may like the HE500 and the LCD-2 with the Lyr more than the HE-6 and I got it to power the HE-6. That is fine though as the LCD-2 sounds very fine with the Lyr. Great contrasts within the music. My problem is not enough time to listen to music.


 


  I don't know how you guys with that many quality headphones have time to enjoy them lol. I will admit though that I wish I had that problem.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





floydfan33 said:


> Bet you're glad you didn't wait!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Funny how I said that and a few days later I ordered them. I guess I have balls of steel after all lol.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Well I may like the HE500 and the LCD-2 with the Lyr more than the HE-6 and I got it to power the HE-6. That is fine though as the LCD-2 sounds very fine with the Lyr. Great contrasts within the music. My problem is not enough time to listen to music.


 


  hahaha my problem is I have to much time to listen to music. I work from home  for IBM so I have to keep my music collection growing


----------



## franklyshankly

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm barging in on this thread, I'm just having a hard time figuring out what I need! I know I need to educate myself about impedance, sensitivity, watts, and volts, but for now if someone could give me some guidance I'd be super stoked.
   
  I have the HD650s and I love them out of my Rotel ax-1052 fed by my Pure i20. They are bliss for me. I also have the KICAS amp which I am really disappointed with. Not sure if it's unfair to compare these two things, but it's all I have to compare. Basically, I would like something as powerful as the Rotel, but a bit more "desktop" in size and style.
   
  Is the Rotel "better" than headphone amps because it's bigger and more powerful? Or is it just different? I know there are many features on it that I don't need for a simple headphone set up, which is why I'm still looking for something for a desktop set up. I'm thinking the Lyr would be the most power for the money, but would it be as high quality as the Rotel?
   
  Here are some facts regarding the Rotel. I don't know how to interpret them, maybe someone could help me compare it to the Lyr?
   

 *Response Bandwidth*  10 - 70000 Hz
 *Signal-To-Noise Ratio*  92.0 dB
 *Input Impedance*  47.0 KOhm
 *Input Sensitivity*  160.0 mV
 *Total Harmonic Distortion*  0.05 %
 *Amplifier Output Details*  100.0 Watt - 8.0 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05 % - 2.0 channel(s) ( Main )
 *Bass Control*  Yes
 *Treble Control*  Yes
  People say the KICAS is good enough to power the HD650 but I say hell no it's not! There is NO comparison between the Rotel and the KICAS, none at all. I'm using Apple Lossless files, digitally extracted, and Blue Jean Stereo cables.
   
  Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!


----------



## leesure

The specs on the Rotel power are referring to the speaker amp section. No idea what you're getting from the HPA. Many people are buying vintage receivers to power headphones...they tend to be cheap and powerful. Better? That's a different question. It's possible your Rotel is better objectively, but that doesn't matter as much as the subjective diffence YOU hear. 

However, it seems you are looking for a smaller alternative. My suggestion is to listen to as much as you can.

The HD-650's are not particularly difficult to drive and this opens up a HUGE number of amps for you to try. I personally found nice synergy with the Little Dot MKIII, but that's only oif you want a REALLY warm tubey sound. I've heard good things (but have not tried) about the paying with the Schiit Valhalla.

The good news is that e 650's can be run by almost everything. The bad news is that doesnt narrow your search much. Again...try lots. Can you get t a meet near you? Take advantage of money back guarantees and try amps until you find one you like.


----------



## franklyshankly

Leesure, thanks  for the reply! Yeah, I don't have the time/money to buy and try anymore ... I'm in CT, I'll have to look for some meets around here. The Lyr is enticing because of the price and I'm curious about tubes, and it's supposed to be powerful ... Maybe I'll just take advatange of their return policy and see how it works


----------



## leesure

The Lyr certainly has the power to drive almost anything...so it's sort of upgrade ready. That said, you have to like the way it sounds or it's no good TO YOU.

Shame you missed the NYC meet a month or 2 back.


----------



## leesure

Boston meet next weekend, may 28th.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/548464/boston-massachusetts-area-meet-may-28th


----------



## MrScary

franklyshankly said:


> Leesure, thanks  for the reply! Yeah, I don't have the time/money to buy and try anymore ... I'm in CT, I'll have to look for some meets around here. The Lyr is enticing because of the price and I'm curious about tubes, and it's supposed to be powerful ... Maybe I'll just take advatange of their return policy and see how it works




The Lyr drastically changes depending on the tubes rolled with it the stock JJ's do not do the Lyr justice.


----------



## sphinxvc

I would wager that even the NFB-12 could get pretty loud with the HD650s and it's definitely desktop sized.  I used to listen at 10 o'clock with the FUN.  Since your only issue is volume I don't think it's necessary to go for a Lyr unless you plan on moving to orthos down the line.  Lee's right by the way, you have SO many options.


----------



## grokit

The Lyr would be fine but the Valhalla may be an even better choice if all you plan on driving is the HD650.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





grokit said:


> The Lyr would be fine but the Valhalla may be an even better choice if all you plan on driving is the HD650.


 


  He said in an ealier post that he was considering Orthos down the road.


----------



## franklyshankly

haha, thanks everyone! The fact that I have so many options is kind of the problem!! LOL ... I cannot figure out which amp to get! I have been disappointed twice with these boutique amps (TTVJ Slim, and KICAS), so I'm wary. ... anyways, I won't hold up your thread anymore! Thanks ....


----------



## jronan2

If you think you are going to keep upgrading( which many of us do, and very quickly), then I think the Lyr would be a safer bet than the valhalla. I was going to get the valhalla and pair it with my DT 990's, but I'm honestly so glad I didn't go that route. The valhalla is probably a great amp, and undoubtedly pairs well with the 650's, its just that your going to be kind of limited if you want to eventually upgrade.


----------



## Rope

Come now.  Everyone knows audio enthusiasts rarely contract the dreaded upgradeitis virus, although, in the unfortunate even you do contract that dreaded disease, pruchase the Lyr.  Using this method will prevent buyers remorse and leave more $$$$$$ to spend on new cans, since you won't have to upgrade your amp at the same time you upgrade HP's.


----------



## sphinxvc

So for some of you well-travelled members, where do you think the Lyr comes up short?  I get that it has a great power, is a great price, and so on and so forth but as an amp, objectively, what do you think it lacks compared to the big boys?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mid range.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mid range.


 
  Even that can be overcome by rolling in some different tubes.  At least for me it did.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mid range.


 


  LCD 2's...problem solved


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> Mid range.




With what tubes?


----------



## MrScary

hk_sends said:


> Even that can be overcome by rolling in some different tubes.  At least for me it did.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




Yeah hes running those nasty Shiit tubes not a good comparison if you are not tube rolling to find the sound for your setup then you can't make a judgement


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jronan2 said:


> LCD 2's...problem solved




Lol, it's not a knock against the Lyr. I'm just saying that if it has any shortcomings, it's that the midrange isn't on par with the bass and treble, so the Lyr sounds best with mid rich headphones, and not so much with v shaped headphones. It actually sounds awkward and echo-y with the D7000 now. Valhalla tubes have a better midrange than the stock tubes, which have very little in that area.


----------



## sphinxvc

Ok.  Lets try this again, for those of you that have a good amount of first hand experience with the better, big boy amps, in what ways does the Lyr fall short?
   
  (Thanks for the contribution though, Mad Lust Envy)


----------



## Anaxilus

So I really liked the Lyr when I heard it but never got a chance to hear it w/ my preferred phones (HD800).  I also really, really liked the WA5 when I did hear it w/ the HD800.  I guess what I would like to hear is someone saying the WA5 is just overpriced, overhyped and doesn't warrant the cost as the improvement is miniscule and the diminishing returns huge.  Only if it's true by the way.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  (Not looking at feature set here)


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Ok.  Lets try this again, for those of you that have a good amount of first hand experience with the better, big boy amps, in what ways does the Lyr fall short?


 

 I guess this is pithier than my post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrscary said:


> hk_sends said:
> 
> 
> > Even that can be overcome by rolling in some different tubes.  At least for me it did.
> ...




Gimme a break dude. The Valhalla tubes sound fine. I'm simply stating that the the two tubes that I HAVE tried haven't done MUCH to the midrange, to make it a STRENGTH.

Yeah, I can roll a SUPREME tube that adds an awesome amount of mids, but guess what? It will take away from the bass or treble... two areas I DON'T want rolled off whatsoever. So guess what? No mid rich tube is gonna make it a better amp for me, as I already find the treble right where I want it, as well as the bass. I will not compromise either for more mids.

Yes, because everyone who has a Lyr is gonna buy AMAZING tubes for it. :rolleyes:

Be a little more realistic. I stated that as it stands the mids are what's lacking for ME. That's the one shortcoming I see in it.


----------



## jronan2

I know what you mean MLE with the DT 990's the mids are hard to find IMO. When I got the LCD 2's first thing I heard was wow that is what midrange is supposed to sound like.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


anaxilus said:


> I guess this is pithier than my post.


 

 No, that was good.  I'm lookin' for direct comparisons like that.
   
  I'll add to that, if meet impressions count for anything, here's a list of amps off the top of my head I find better than the Lyr (off various sources).  The RSA Apache, the WA22, WA5, a modded MAD Ear+ HD, a balanced Isabellina.  And for the record I do find the WA5 over priced, over hyped, but only compared to a WA22.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Just meet impressions though (and all with LCD2s).
   
  I'm hoping Lee chimes in.  I'd love to hear his thoughts on how the LCD2s sound out of his RWA Isabellina vs. Lyr.  
   
  I guess the comparison would only be meaningful if the Isabellina had DAC out.  And then of course, his Isabellina is balanced.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Ok.  Lets try this again, for those of you that have a good amount of first hand experience with the better, big boy amps, in what ways does the Lyr fall short?
> 
> (Thanks for the contribution though, Mad Lust Envy)


 

 LOL. I picked up on what you said the first time but some folks just can't help themselves. Source also has a bearing that I suspect MLE isn't factoring in (or downplaying the importance).
   
  You know what the Fun with the Moon hdam sounds like sphinx so I'm sure you'll understand when I say it's greatly refined by the Lyr. It has an airy soundstage amidst the texture and layering. Gone is the empty hall soundstage with everything originating from the same distance. You're in the thick of it but the room is at least as large.
   
  You also know the Fun's amp section and although I've stated elsewhere that it's not shamed by the Lyr at all, it's become more apparent with time how "superior" the Lyr is with respect to dynamics and authority. Won't comment on how it stacks up against "big boy amps" though, as I have no first hand experience.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> So for some of you well-travelled members, where do you think the Lyr comes up short?  I get that it has a great power, is a great price, and so on and so forth but as an amp, objectively, what do you think it lacks compared to the big boys?


 


  Good question, I'm also interested in this question because all I seem to read about it is the power.  even the 6 moons review (which was garbage) said nothing but technical stuff and that it had power.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

olor1n said:


> LOL. I picked up on what you said the first time but some folks just can't help themselves. Source also has a bearing that I suspect MLE isn't factoring in (or downplaying the importance).
> 
> You know what the Fun with the Moon hdam sounds like sphinx so I'm sure you'll understand when I say it's greatly refined by the Lyr. It has an airy soundstage amidst the texture and layering. Gone is the empty hall soundstage with everything originating from the same distance. You're in the thick of it but the room is at least as large.
> 
> You also know the Fun's amp section and although I've stated elsewhere that it's not shamed by the Lyr at all, it's become more apparent with time how "superior" the Lyr is with respect to dynamics and authority. Won't comment on how it stacks up against "big boy amps" though, as I have no first hand experience.




Considering I've plugged in the Lyr with too many different sources to count (even far as taking to friend's houses and plugging it in on their setups), it didn't change what I feel the Lyr lacks. No matter what I plug it into, the E9 still has superior mids. It may be all that's superior, but it's clear to me and anyone else who has heard it. It makes the mids on my D7000 sound balanced with the bass and highs, and even brings them out more on the HE4 (though the HE4 clearly sounds better on the Lyr, mids aside). Yes, I might get some $200 tubes and say the midrange is great now, but then again, that's the strength of the tube now.

The question asked was what do you feel the Lyr lacks. I said midrange. Then it became some elitist drabble about how I don't have good tubes, my sources suck, what else? My headphones? My ears? Lol. This is ridiculous.

It was my opinion. I didn't state it as fact, nor did I try and dispute that you guys thought the mids were fine.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I didn't think the midrange was that special either with the Valhalla or JJ tubes.  I just followed a few suggestions and spent a little coin on some other tubes.  In fact the 6BZ7 tubes sound like they address the mids issue and don't cost a mint ($6.00)...
  I am being realistic...if you confine yourself to what tubes you have/heard, then I acknowledge your opinion (and share it).  What I was trying to suggest is even the "mids" shortcoming can be addressed.
   
  I was giving you a break...and advice...take it with what salt you will...but don't get snippy because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.  This is supposed to be fun...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do those tubes compromise for better mids directly compared against the Valhalla tubes? Serious question, as I may just splurge on those tubes depending on what you say, realistically. I won't believe nothing is compromised.


----------



## olor1n

Why are you so combative MLE? You present an opinion, others counter. It's the nature of the beast.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The question asked was what do you feel the Lyr lacks. I said midrange. Then it became some elitist drabble about how I don't have good tubes, my sources suck, what else? My headphones? My ears? Lol. This is ridiculous.
> 
> It was my opinion. I didn't state it as fact, nor did I try and dispute that you guys thought the mids were fine.


 
  We all express our opinions...I was expressing mine.  I do take umbrage at the "elitist drabble" bit.  I was doing nothing other than trying to help.
  If you don't want it, ignore it.  Why do so many posters seem to be in such a snit tonight?  Your not the first I've encountered.
   
  This "end of the world" thing must be getting to people...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All in good fun...
  a humble, non-elitist Head-Fi'er,
   
  -HK sends


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hk_sends said:


> We all express our opinions...I was expressing mine.  I do take umbrage at the "elitist drabble" bit.  I was doing nothing other than trying to help.
> If you don't want it, ignore it.  Why do so many posters seem to be in such a snit tonight?  Your not the first I've encountered.
> 
> This "end of the world" thing must be getting to people...
> ...




That was in all honesty not aimed at you, whatsoever. I apologize. Your post was taken serious, hence why I'm asking what the trade offs are to bring out that mid range. If I can find a tube that can make the entire spectrum sound balanced, then I'd go for it. I want mids at least on par with my humble E9 at least in quantity, but if it's gonna compromise too much of the bass and treble, I'll live with the mids it has. The HE4 sounds phenomenal as is, which is why I'm using the Lyr to begin with.


----------



## HK_sends

The bass is tight and not farty, the mids are straight forward and the highs may be rolled off a bit, but I find the sound to be at once detailed and a little "tuby".  Now to be specific, my system is a Cowon J3 (using custom eq settings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) -> Milian silver coated copper cable -> Schiit Lyr -> Q-Audio Black Magic cable -> LCD-2's so I will admit that your mileage may vary.
   
  Now if you want, I have collected several sets of tubes and would be happy to let you roll them to see if any address the mids issue.  Just PM me and I'll tell you what I have.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What do those tubes compromise for better mids directly compared against the Valhalla tubes? Serious question, as I may just splurge on those tubes depending on what you say, realistically. I won't believe nothing is compromised.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  No problem! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It has been a crazy day... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hk_sends said:


> The bass is tight and not farty, the mids are straight forward and the highs may be rolled off a bit, but I find the sound to be at once detailed and a little "tuby".  Now to be specific, my system is a Cowon J3 (using custom eq settings
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's what I'm afraid of. I don't want my highs too rolled off. At least noticeably so. Please, link me to where I can find those tubes, I'll try them out. They may benefit the HE4 a little, as it does have plenty of highs, so perhaps a little roll off (very minute) won't irk me, as say if I rolled off the highs on my D7000 which would be a dealbreaker (but again, I'm not using the D7000 with the Lyr).


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I have the tubes and will send you a list.  I have a few more coming in this week if you can wait a bit, then I'll pack several pairs and send them to you to try.
  Have you tried the Gold Loins?  They sound like they may suit you.  I'll throw a set in as well.
   
  Now this is just to give you a chance to try some out.  If you intend to buy, then that's another story...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh lol, you're too kind. I couldn't possibly accept you going through all that trouble for my benefit. I thought the tubes you mentioned were like $6.00 a pair or so. I was asking a link or something as to where I may acquire them.

I don't think I have the expertise to truly appreciate the differences all the tubes might have.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh lol, you're too kind. I couldn't possibly accept you going through all that trouble for my benefit. I thought the tubes you mentioned were like $6.00 a pair or so. I was asking a link or something as to where I may acquire them.
> 
> I don't think I have the expertise to truly appreciate the differences all the tubes might have.


 
   
  Neither do I which is why I am offering to loan them to you so you could decide for yourself.  I don't mind at all if it helps.
   
  As far as the tubes I mentioned, here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260619704563&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_794wt_1139
  I ordered two and included a note requesting that the seller include the same brand.
   
  Another option: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350151855961&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_500wt_922
   
  I still think you might like the gold lions and would be happy to send them to you since I am not using them.  No reason for them to gather dust.  I can send other ones too.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alright. I'll order those tubes first. I'll let you now what I think. If I'm not happy with them, at least in terms of midrange, I'll talk to you about everything else. 

I don't wanna go with Gold Lions as they to me are quite expensive. I can live with what I have, as I'm already happy. I honestly didn't mean to imply that I was unhappy with the Lyr because the midrange isn't as forward as the E9's. I'm VERY happy with it. Though my E9 may have more midrange, the Lyr has a fuller, more realistic sound, which is a fair trade off. Though to be honest, the Lyr just doesn't have good synergy with the D7000 at least with either of the tubes I have. I even like the D7000 more unamped vs the Lyr. I did like the D7000 off the Valhalla tubes at first, but then the sound started getting worse with age of those tubes, at least through the D7000.


----------



## Anaxilus

Pretty cool!  HK, you can send me your Lyr to try out if you like.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> Pretty cool!  HK, you can send me your Lyr to try out if you like.


 
  LOL!  But where would I put my tubes and plug my LCD-2's?


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> LOL!  But where would I put my tubes and plug my LCD-2's?


 

 Don't make me answer that.  >.<


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now that's just dirty... XD


----------



## HK_sends

ROFLMAO!!!  Oops!  Shoulda rethought that one... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
   
  ...as I said, a crazy day...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> ...as I said, a crazy day...


 

 You know what.  You're right, it has been now that I reflect upon it.  Probably time to pack it in while I'm ahead.  I'll leave you to burn in your tubes and LCD2 as you see fit.


----------



## jamato8

Since I am also an ICU nurse and I do give suppositories at times, though I always like to tell a story with a suppository, maybe for tube aficionados, I could shape them into, you know, a little tube. Just don't ask for a story of a power tube.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Since I am also an ICU nurse and I do give suppositories at times, though I always like to tell a story with a suppository, maybe for tube aficionados, I could shape them into, you know, a little tube. Just don't ask for a story of a power tube.


 
  Uhh..no thanks..there's only one type of Schiit that I want to have with my supposi...err...tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Quote:Originally Posted by *HK_sends* /img/forum/go_quote.gifUhh..no thanks..there's only one type of Schiit that I want to have with my supposi...err...tubes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




> -HK sends


 
  Your up late in Calif. Got some great Blues going here. Muddy Waters live on Legacy. 
   
  edit: with 24 hours or so on the RCA 6BZ7 it is warming up and shaping up to be a very fine sounding tube. I sadly, as I like to swap tubes, have no desire to change these out. All for an investment of around 6 dollars. More like what it should be for tubes.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> No, that was good.  I'm lookin' for direct comparisons like that.
> 
> ...


 

 I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
   
  I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.  The RWA we had at the meet was not 100%, as we all noted.  I will be getting my final version in early June and will do a more thorough comparison.  It does have a DAC out so we can be fair. At some point soon, I'll also take the Lyr downstairs and set it up opposite the Woo 6SE from the same source as well so I can give you a more definitive answer on that as well.
   
  So for now, I'll still with the 'Big Boyz' having better layering and micro dynamics.  The speed seems less an issue since the Lyr broke in more.  Tonally, I have no issues with the midrange or any other spectrum, especially with the 6BQ7a tubes I've rolled in.


----------



## MrScary

mad lust envy said:


> What do those tubes compromise for better mids directly compared against the Valhalla tubes? Serious question, as I may just splurge on those tubes depending on what you say, realistically. I won't believe nothing is compromised.




Im not getting into it anymore with you. I'm just saying buy some tubes dude you have two of the weakest tube sets and you make broad statements if you want good mids buy the Gold Lions or the RCA's the RCA's are like 5.00 compare yourself and see. What does it give up? you go seek


----------



## DemonicLemming

Do you think it's because the E9 has forward mids and the Lyr is neutral, or that the Lyr has slightly recessed mids and the E9 is neutral? 
   
  Honestly though, some of the nicer tubes that aren't too expensive neither roll off the treble or muffle the bass to increase the potency of the mids.  The 6DJ8 GE gray glass ($40) and the E88CC Brimar ($50) both do wonderful things to the entire frequency band, and soundstaging, without compromising any aspects to achieve those gains.  The 1970s Russian 6N1P and 6N23P are relatively cheap, and the 6BZ7s are pretty cheap, too; if you don't like the sound signature they impart, you're only out $10, and more than likely someone on here would be interested in buying them from you.  Hell, if you wind up buying some Brimar tubes and don't like them, I'd buy them from you for what you paid, just to have a backup set.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Considering I've plugged in the Lyr with too many different sources to count (even far as taking to friend's houses and plugging it in on their setups), it didn't change what I feel the Lyr lacks. No matter what I plug it into, the E9 still has superior mids. It may be all that's superior, but it's clear to me and anyone else who has heard it. It makes the mids on my D7000 sound balanced with the bass and highs, and even brings them out more on the HE4 (though the HE4 clearly sounds better on the Lyr, mids aside). Yes, I might get some $200 tubes and say the midrange is great now, but then again, that's the strength of the tube now.
> 
> The question asked was what do you feel the Lyr lacks. I said midrange. Then it became some elitist drabble about how I don't have good tubes, my sources suck, what else? My headphones? My ears? Lol. This is ridiculous.
> 
> It was my opinion. I didn't state it as fact, nor did I try and dispute that you guys thought the mids were fine.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


warriorant said:


> ...all I seem to read about it is the power.  even the 6 moons review (which was garbage) said nothing but technical stuff and that it had power...


 

 x2
   
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
> 
> I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.  The RWA we had at the meet was not 100%, as we all noted.  I will be getting my final version in early June and will do a more thorough comparison.  It does have a DAC out so we can be fair. At some point soon, I'll also take the Lyr downstairs and set it up opposite the Woo 6SE from the same source as well so I can give you a more definitive answer on that as well.
> 
> So for now, I'll still with the 'Big Boyz' having better layering and micro dynamics.  The speed seems less an issue since the Lyr broke in more.  Tonally, I have no issues with the midrange or any other spectrum, especially with the 6BQ7a tubes I've rolled in.


 

 Nice.  I'm looking forward to both comparisons.  For consistency, you could use the HE-500s which do quite well with both those amps, as opposed to the less efficient LCD2s.  That'll even the field some for the 6SE.
   
  I too didn't notice anything lacking in the midrange when I tried the Lyr.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





leesure said:


> I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
> 
> I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.  The RWA we had at the meet was not 100%, as we all noted.  I will be getting my final version in early June and will do a more thorough comparison.  It does have a DAC out so we can be fair. At some point soon, I'll also take the Lyr downstairs and set it up opposite the Woo 6SE from the same source as well so I can give you a more definitive answer on that as well.
> 
> So for now, I'll still with the 'Big Boyz' having better layering and micro dynamics.  The speed seems less an issue since the Lyr broke in more.  Tonally, I have no issues with the midrange or any other spectrum, especially with the 6BQ7a tubes I've rolled in.


 

 X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


grokit said:


> X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't need the resolution of a WA22.


 

 Did the Lyr hold back your HE-6' resolution too?  Totally agree on that resolution comment, but I think it does well all the way up to the 5LE before you start having those bottlenecking / system imbalance problems.  5LEs have a bit more resolution than 650s and 701s but less than all flagships.


----------



## grokit

With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





grokit said:


> With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.


 

 I'm just curious, where do you have the volume knob assuming start position is 7 o'clock? I'm using a soundcard as source, I don't know how many volts it puts out but I have the volume knob at 8-9 o'clock with the HE-6. 10 o'clock is too loud for most recordings. 
   
  Edit: My soundcard puts out 2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p). Does that mean 2 or 5.65 volts?


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.


 
  I always thought the advantage of a hybrid design like the Lyr (and Liquid Fire) is it offers the resolution of a sold-state design with some of the smoothness of a tube design, but you've found the all-tube WA22 to offer more resolution than the hybrid Lyr.  I guess it's the old adage that it comes down to implementation ... eh?
   
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.


 
  Typically I adjust the volume on my system using my source only, keeping the Lyr volume at a fixed point.  My source, the Lavry DA11 with it's excellent digitally controlled analog circuit, will output up to 6Vrms single-ended!  Personally I haven't noticed any difference in resolution and dynamics and I move up the voltage, but that was with the LCD-2's which are much more efficient than the HE-6's.  IMHO, the LCD-2's themselves really respond to higher voltages without ever sounding strained, if you enjoy/tolerate higher (but safe) volumes.
   
  Maybe give the DA11 a try, I enjoy being able to adjust the volume using a remote and you can then keep the Lyr's pot at a place in it's range where channel imbalance is minimal.  Depending on where you set the Lyr's volume you could always then keep the source voltage somewhere between your desired 2.5V and 6V RMS.  The DA11's solid state headphone output is excellent as well BTW.
   
  FYI - I checked with Jason Stoddard (Lyr designer) awhile back and he said the Lyr can take a lot of input voltage and the DA11's 6Vrms would be no problem!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> I'm just curious, where do you have the volume knob assuming start position is 7 o'clock? I'm using a soundcard as source, I don't know how many volts it puts out but I have the volume knob at 8-9 o'clock with the HE-6. 10 o'clock is too loud for most recordings.
> 
> Edit: My soundcard puts out 2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p). Does that mean 2 or 5.65 volts?


 

 It means 2 volts. My experience re volume knob settings on the Lyr exactly mirrors this handy chart provided by 6 Moons:
   



  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I always thought the advantage of a hybrid design like the Lyr (and Liquid Fire) is it offers the resolution of a sold-state design with some of the smoothness of a tube design, but you've found the all-tube WA22 to offer more resolution than the hybrid Lyr.  I guess it's the old adage that it comes down to implementation ... eh?


 

 Yes, my understanding is that sound quality is not based on the design of the amp but the implementation of that design. Even though they are both hybrids the Lyr is not in the same league as the Liquid Fire, which cost 6X as much.


----------



## wuwhere

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> I'm just curious, where do you have the volume knob assuming start position is 7 o'clock? I'm using a soundcard as source, I don't know how many volts it puts out but I have the volume knob at 8-9 o'clock with the HE-6. 10 o'clock is too loud for most recordings.
> 
> Edit: My soundcard puts out 2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p). Does that mean 2 or 5.65 volts?


 

 Vrms is more accurate because it is the voltage measure of a sinewave. Vp-p is the voltage measure from the positive to the negative, example is the highest positive half of a sinewave is at +2.5, the lowest negative half is at -2.5, the Vp-p is 5v.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Yes, my understanding is that sound quality is not based on the design of the amp but the implementation of that design. Even though they are both hybrids the Lyr is not in the same league as the Liquid Fire, which cost 6X as much.


 
  We agreed all the way up to cost.  I've seen audio products (like certain cables) that were way overpriced for what you got.  In the case of the Liquid Fire I believe it is fairly priced with quality components, though you're not getting 6x the sound quaility but that is the law of diminishing returns of audio equipment (and many other things as well).  This is one of the things that I dislike about certain audio review magazines - you will very rarely, if ever, see them say a less-expensive product is better than a more costly product.


----------



## jamato8

Interesting read on the information being retrieved on the Woo amps. I haven't heard a few of those so I can't comment on them. What I do hear with the Lyr is layering, dynamics and detail. On detail, to be honest, I wouldn't want any more in both the micro or macro. I do hear music, breathing of the singers, if recorded, and excellent separation. That is my impression so far. 
   
  What I would like are some headphones and amp that sound like at least a good speaker system. Are we there yet? :^)


----------



## MacedonianHero

I can say of all the amps I've heard my two orthos with, the Lyr is the "best headphone amp" to date. Using a pigtail adapter and my Pioneer Elite home theater receiver (120 W into 8 ohms) really yields too much of a noise floor with the LCD-2s. It is darn good with my HE-6s. 

But with my "headphone setup" - Marantz CD player - Cary XCiter DAC- Lyr, both the LCD-2s and HE-6s sound incredible. I think Schiit made a mistake pricing it at this range as it appears some might not be taking it seriously. But as dedicated ortho headphone amps go, this puppy puts a brilliant 4 W into 50 ohms and I am extremely satisfied. I slightly prefer the Lyr (with Genalex Gold Lions) over my WA2 (with tricked out tubes) and the price difference is more than 2 to 1. 

For those who are worried that the LCD-2s can come off a bit dark, what I've found is through either my home theater receiver and my Lyr, is when you properly power them, the treble really comes out and anymore would be too much IMO (along with improved sound staging). The HE-6s are a great match too for the Lyr.

Now with my 2 high impedance headphones (T1 and HD800s), I do prefer my WA2 be a reasonable margin as it is a better match for them. As Mike Holmes says...."the right tool for the right job".


----------



## olor1n

For the plebs on the outer, there seems to be some prestige associated with the big ticket items. I don't doubt these sound wonderful and I'll readily confess my envy, but when a seemingly bang for buck proposition enters the arena around these parts there's of course a natural tendency to pit it against goliaths in heavier weight divisions. This should be seen as a great compliment and should be highlighted at every opportunity. It's a strange situation if the Lyr's accessible price is actually acting as a deterrent for some.


----------



## MacedonianHero

olor1n said:


> For the plebs on the outer, there seems to be some prestige associated with the big ticket items. I don't doubt these sound wonderful and I'll readily confess my envy, but when a seemingly bang for buck proposition enters the arena around these parts there's of course a natural tendency to pit it against goliaths in heavier weight divisions. This should be seen as a great compliment and should be highlighted at every opportunity.* It's a strange situation if the Lyr's accessible price is actually acting as a deterrent for some.*




Agreed. I don't get it either. The right tool for the right job, and for a dedicated headphone amp, it is the best tool to drive orthos IMO. Now speaker amps/receivers can be another solution. But as far as dedicated headphone amps currently released, none that I know of can drive them with the Lyr's authority. As I've mentioned, my WA2 (with upgraded tubes runs about $1400), but with both my orthos, the Lyr is the better solution (at $550 with upgraded tubes).


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> ... I think Schiit made a mistake pricing it at this range as it appears some might not be taking it seriously ...


 
  I don't necessarily agree it was a mistake ... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ... but I know exactly what you mean.  This supports my earlier post that there is not always a direct correlation between cost and sound quality.  Just because a manufacturer is able to produce something more affordably through smart design and/or higher volumes than other manufacturers doesn't mean the amp doesn't sound as good as amps perhaps produced in a less efficient manner and are thus more costly.


----------



## WarriorAnt

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You take the Lyr over your Meier Audio Concerto?


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> Cary XCiter DAC


 

 Mind if I drop you a PM?  I'm looking for a DAC and I don't want to derail the thread.  I'm going to Cary, NC on Tuesday, so it'd be a good time to find out more about it.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.


 

 As I said, the comments about resolution and soundstage are specifically about the Lyr AND JJ tubes.  The 6BQ7s I have in now are initially a nice improvement.  FWIW, I do think the Lyr can be a nice match for the LCD's


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> x2
> 
> ...


 


  The LCD-2's are still more efficient than the HE-500's


----------



## sphinxvc

I don't think there's a dedicated head-amp around that does what this thing does at the price it does it.  But I've heard some top of the line stuff, even if just briefly, and I can say that there's a lot more between the Lyr and those systems than just price.  They're better.  Even with orthos.
   
  I think Lee's comparison with the Isabellina's DAC out to the Lyr vs. the built in headphone out will be an asset to this thread.  We've had a lot of hyping regarding this thing's price and power output, and deservedly so, but we do need to assess it as an amp at the end of the day.
   
  I think Grokit was right on the money about that resolution comment, matches what I heard.
   
  It's a shame Skylab didn't review this thing, his perspective, given all the gear he's heard, would've been pretty useful.
   
  Quote:


leesure said:


> The LCD-2's are still more efficient than the HE-500's


 

 I hadn't figured.  I remember not enjoying the LCD2s out of the 6SE as much as I did off the Lyr.  With the HE-500s, I really liked it with both the 6SE and the Lyr.  Maybe a sensitivity thing?  Too many changing variables to count on those impressions though, so I'm lookin' forward to your comparison.
   
  Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> Agreed. I don't get it either. The right tool for the right job, and for a dedicated headphone amp, it is the best tool to drive orthos IMO. Now speaker amps/receivers can be another solution. But as far as dedicated headphone amps currently released, none that I know of can drive them with the Lyr's authority. As I've mentioned, my WA2 (with upgraded tubes runs about $1400), but with both my orthos, the Lyr is the better solution (at $550 with upgraded tubes).


 

 Now this 6WPC has been sufficiently shouted about 'round here but as olor1n brought up earlier in this thread the Audio-GD C2-SA (now discontinued) put out a nice 6Ws @ 50ohms.  I guess my point is that there are some other head amps out there that put out orthodynamic power.


----------



## Kremer930

grokit said:


> With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.




Now this is a meaty topic. I had wondered about micro detail and space when I first got the Lyr too. In truth, I thought that there was no way that a $450 amp could run with the big boys. But when I hooked the Lyr up to a bryston music server and DAC playing 24/192 music into my HE6 then it all picked up to be one of the best sounds I have ever heard. 

I do agree though that the HE6 can eat everything that the Lyr can give and still be left hungry for more. Even a higher than 2v source doesn't fix that.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> On detail, to be honest, I wouldn't want any more in both the micro or macro.


 

 How do you know if you haven't heard it yet?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





anaxilus said:


> How do you know if you haven't heard it yet?


 
  Well we never know with absolute certainty but I have heard plenty of live music and it is rare that I hear the detail I hear with most home systems, be it speaker or headphones. The reason I believe we strive so hard to get all the detail and information possible is to overcome the fact that it is recorded music and by maxing out our senses, we come as close as we can to that allusion but rarely going over the threshold to the real event. 
   
  The same is true with images. There is 3D but still not quite there but so much fun. So in 2D sometimes it is almost there but not quite but is it the image or the impression it is real or the music for music's sake or sound? I know I would like it all, just like most here. 
   
  I think the Lyr is a fair price with build quality and sound exceeded what you might expect for the price but I think Schiit just happens to be giving you an honest price. 
   
  Here is an image that has clarity that I shot the other day. It is almost there on one level but maybe not on another.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I don't think there's a dedicated head-amp around that does what this thing does at the price it does it.  But I've heard some top of the line stuff, even if just briefly, and I can say that there's a lot more between the Lyr and those systems than just price.  They're better.  Even with orthos.
> 
> I think Lee's comparison with the Isabellina's DAC out to the Lyr vs. the built in headphone out will be an asset to this thread.  We've had a lot of hyping regarding this thing's price and power output, and deservedly so, but we do need to assess it as an amp at the end of the day.
> 
> ...


 

 Not sure where you got your numbers, but the NFB-10 has the following ratings, which would give it about 2WPC at 50 ohms.  Still not a bad rating, but a lot more realistic than what you seemed to find:
   
   


 *Output Level:*
 Headphone output: 21V RMS (balance)
 Variable output: 12V RMS (balance, volume max)
 Fixed output: 5V RMS (balance)
 Fixed output: 2.5V RMS (RCA) 
 *Output power (only for headphone):*
 4W / 100 ohm
 700mW / 600 ohm


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Not sure where you got your numbers, but the NFB-10 has the following ratings, which would give it about 2WPC at 50 ohms.  Still not a bad rating, but a lot more realistic than what you seemed to find:


 
   
  Ok, that makes a lot more sense.  I guess I'd fudged up the formula.  My mistake.
   
  The C2SA though, does put out 6Ws at 50 ohms.


----------



## MacedonianHero

warriorant said:


> You take the Lyr over your Meier Audio Concerto?




Totally depends on the headphone you're planning on plugging in. For low impedance/efficient dynamic headphones, the Concerto no doubt. For orthos....the Lyr. 



sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Mind if I drop you a PM?  I'm looking for a DAC and I don't want to derail the thread.  I'm going to Cary, NC on Tuesday, so it'd be a good time to find out more about it.




Sure, I might take a bit getting back to you....long weekend here in Canada (Victoria Day...otherwise known as the May 2-4 weekend). 

In Canada 2-4 = case of beer (24 bottles of beer).


----------



## MacedonianHero

sphinxvc said:


> I don't think there's a dedicated head-amp around that does what this thing does at the price it does it.  But I've heard some top of the line stuff, even if just briefly, and I can say that there's a lot more between the Lyr and those systems than just price.  They're better.  Even with orthos.
> 
> I think Lee's comparison with the Isabellina's DAC out to the Lyr vs. the built in headphone out will be an asset to this thread.  We've had a lot of hyping regarding this thing's price and power output, and deservedly so, but we do need to assess it as an amp at the end of the day.
> 
> ...




Operative words in your post.


----------



## jamato8

I have left the 6BZ7 in the Lyr now for a number of days and I have to say the sound is excellent. I also think this has to do with the Lyr breaking in. The sound has gotten more dimensional and open. The small nuances within the music are more obvious an add to the illusion that you are really at the event (live music). The sound is effortless and flows. I have been using the HE-500 for much of the listening but the LCD-2 match up well also with the 500's being a little more transparent.


----------



## zilch0md

Grokit,
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.


 

 X3!
   
   
  A Dallas area Head-Fi member graciously offered to lend me his already burned-in Schiit Lyr (with the stock tubes) for a few days, along with a some other gear that I haven't played with yet.  I've heard that lending gear is not all that uncommon for this forum, but I have to say, it's a wonderful thing, from my perspective, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to educate my ears without having to spend any money first!

   

  At this writing, I've spent about four hours swapping between my only other amp, a 15V-powered Stepdance and the Schiit Lyr, using only my Sony PCM-M10 as a source and only my LCD-2s at the other end.

   

  I know this is going to sound harsh to those who are happy with their Lyrs and I'm particularly concerned about offending the fellow from whom I borrowed the one I have in my possession, but within 15 seconds of the first track I heard through the Lyr, I was already aware of what I'm still convinced after four hours of critical listening: * *

   

*I would never trade my Stepdance for a Lyr - at least not for use with the Sony PCM-M10 and LCD-2.   *

   

  Seriously, I'm hearing a huge loss of detail across the entire frequency range, especially in the highs, but also in the mids and bass frequencies.  I would have to describe the sound as "splashy" - it's as if every note is doing a belly flop that splatters all over the neighboring notes. The more complex and detailed the music at any given moment, the more diffuse the sound coming from the Lyr.  This loss of resolution just destroys the imaging and sense of ambiance created by subtle, low-volume echoes and reverb that I've come to take for granted with the Stepdance.   All sense of air and space just gets hammered by a mushiness that accompanies any voice that's louder than its neighbors.  Compared to the Stepdance + LCD-2, the Lyr + LCD-2 pulls the entire sound stage in close to my head, as if I'm listening to a boombox under my bedcovers.   There is a big loss of the sense of space that the Stepdance conveys so nicely - especially with recordings that shine in that regard, like all the most subtle sonics in Cowboy Junkies' "The Trinity Session".  

   

  In fact, I feel as if this experience has taught me that there is a very important relationship between the transparency and resolution that an amp can deliver vs. that elusive imaging for which everyone lusts.  I've was never sure that I knew exactly what people were talking about when discussing sound stage and imaging - UNTIL NOW - with the Lyr having taken away that which I was taking for granted.  It's the really low-volume, reverby, echoey stuff that CREATES the sense of space - that defines the sound stage.  When all that low-volume stuff gets smothered into obscurity by the muffling I'm hearing with the Lyr, you're left with a flat, lifeless, wall of sound that's mostly just between your ears.  

   

  Consider track 6 from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack, for example - Team Sleep's "The Passportal":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85QBGCtrMQU

   

  The Schiit Lyr is simply INCAPABLE of reproducing this accurately.  The high-intensity electronic "buzzing" that's so crisply delineated with the Stepdance is reduced to nothing but mush by the Lyr.  And when things get really busy - with lots of instruments coming in all at once - the Lyr just smears them all into homologous blobs of sound.  I'm not kidding, the Lyr can't handle this anywhere near as well as the Stepdance does.  I can't imagine the Lyr ever being found pleasing to anyone seriously interested in reproducing classical music, for example.

   

  This Lyr is so "woolly" compared to the Stepdance, I'm left wondering if this particular unit is a lemon - or if the tubes are bad - or what?  

   

  Are my relatively novice ears actually more discerning than the many satisifed Lyr owners by nature of my having spent just a few months listening to a Stepdance with the LCD-2?  

   

  Are all tube amps this bad in terms of resolution?

   

  Do any tube amps offer the same resolution and transparency as that had with a Stepdance?

   

  Do they cost a fortune?

   

  I don't feel as if any of my observations are all that subjective.  To me, this comparison was like ice water down my back - there's nothing subtle about the differences I'm hearing between the Lyr and the Stepdance and so, I suspect that anyone who compares the Lyr to a 15V Stepdance would surely make the same observations.

   

  There, I've done it. I'm going to log off now and enjoy a few hours of flame-free existence, before coming back to face the music... 

   







   

  Mike


----------



## jamato8

Very interesting. Odd, I have compared the Lyr to a number of good portables, and my fi.Q, and I don't hear a loss of detail of highs or smearing of frequencies or problems with complex passages.


----------



## MacedonianHero

jamato8 said:


> Very interesting. Odd, I have compared the Lyr to a number of good portables, and my fi.Q, and I don't hear a loss of detail of highs or smearing of frequencies or problems with complex passages.




I agree completely. I'm sorry, but a portable amp will not power an ortho properly....even though it (LCD-2) can sound quite "nice" from portable amps....they need at least 1W to really get their legs under them so to speak....with the Lyr and it's 4 W they are definitely off to the races IMO.

With my D4, D10 (now sold) and RSA Hornet (now sold), the LCD-2s were very good, but far from what I hear with my Concerto, WA2, and Lyr (in reverse order of my preferences).


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Considering your impressions are completely counter to everything we've heard so far, you may want to have your friend contact us and have us check it out. We'd pay shipping both ways to take a look at it and confirm everything's cool. 
   
  What tubes is he running? What does he think of it? 
   
  Seriously, it sounds like you have a 230V unit plugged into 115V to sound that bad.
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Grokit,
> 
> 
> X3!
> ...


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Are all tube amps this bad in terms of resolution?
> 
> 
> 
> Do any tube amps offer the same resolution and transparency as that had with a Stepdance?


 

 Oh man, you need to hear a WA5 or something comparable.  It'll chew up your PCM-M10 and spit it out.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Hm, I've got that track playing right now (320kbs rip), and the buzzing is razor-sharp to my ears.  Aphex Twins "Buchephalus Bouncing Ball" is another track I use to test for the same sort of knife-edge sharpness, and it's enough to cut paper with my setup.
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Consider track 6 from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack, for example - Team Sleep's "The Passportal":
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85QBGCtrMQU
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

demoniclemming said:


> *Hm, I've got that track playing right now (320kbs rip), and the buzzing is razor-sharp to my ears.*  Aphex Twins "Buchephalus Bouncing Ball" is another track I use to test for the same sort of knife-edge sharpness, and it's enough to cut paper with my setup.




x2 with both my LCD-2s and uber power hungry HE-6s.


----------



## Uchiya

Ewwww, youtube audio.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The fi.Q uses 4 634buf per channel and puts out 24 volts. The 71B has plenty of power in balanced and the PB-2 runs around 30 volts and 2.5 watts per channel. Plenty of power there. Also, in the past, my fi.Q was better than a number of good home amps I compared it to.


----------



## zilch0md

Jason,
   
  He's using the stock tubes in his Lyr (not your upgrades, nor anything else rolled in).
   
  That would be wonderful if you could identify and fix a problem with the Lyr I'm borrowing.  As evidenced in my post, the possibility of such a problem has already crossed my mind.
   
  Another possibility is that my source might be supplying too low an input voltage - I don't really know what that voltage is, but I'm using a Sony PCM-M10 Line Out to feed the Lyr.  The interconnect is a black cable with a 1/8th-inch stereo mini plug at one end and two RCA plugs at the other end.  (I don't know if the cable is your product or not, but it's about 36-inches long and is labeled "Monoprice E323003... blah, blah, ...)
   
  Please watch for a PM.  
   
  Thanks!
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Considering your impressions are completely counter to everything we've heard so far, you may want to have your friend contact us and have us check it out. We'd pay shipping both ways to take a look at it and confirm everything's cool.
> 
> What tubes is he running? What does he think of it?
> 
> Seriously, it sounds like you have a 230V unit plugged into 115V to sound that bad.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

PM replied to. We'll get this sorted!
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Jason,
> 
> He's using the stock tubes in his Lyr (not your upgrades, nor anything else rolled in).
> 
> ...


----------



## mayassa

You have to love Jasons commitment to his products. I'm glad I have my schiit on order.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *zilch0md* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Another possibility is that my source might be supplying too low an input voltage - I don't really know what that voltage is, but I'm using a Sony PCM-M10 Line Out to feed the Lyr.


 
  I don't think it's likely the input voltage, I regularly run less than 2V into my Lyr with no problems from my Lavry DA11, depending on the material and when I feel like listening at lower volumes.
  Looks like Jason is on the case and I'm sure he'll have you up and running soon.


----------



## Anaxilus

Quote: 





mayassa said:


> You have to love Jasons commitment to his products. I'm glad I have my schiit on order.


 

 That's the Schiit right there!


----------



## Yuceka

Jason, Mike and others 
   
  Since I have been traveling, I wasn't able to check head-fi for a while. I am the owner of that particular Lyr Mike has borrowed. Mike, you have definitely not offended me at all and I applaud you for having the courage to post your impressions even if they are negative. 
   
  First, before owning the Lyr I was using Matrix M-Stage to drive my LCD-2 and Hifiman HE-5 and I was quite pleased with the results that it offered for LCD-2 but I was not really satisfied with the HE-5 as it required more power. So I decided to buy the Lyr as I will be using Orthos only in the future. 
   
  My source is Macbook Pro, mostly lossless files, my DAC is Stello DA100 and the Lyr as an amp. I have never heard the Stepdance so I can't comment on it but listening to HE-5 with the Lyr instead of Matrix M-Stage, I have witnessed a big improvement with the Lyr. However, I am not sure if this is even a problem but with my HE-5 I usually have to keep the volume knob at 12 or even 1 or 2 sometimes. Maybe my source (DAC) is not putting out enough voltage into the Lyr? When it comes to technical details of my equipment I am completely a noob and I don't really understand some of the language and discussions about voltage, current etc etc. I am a seminary student who just enjoys listening to music. I have not had too much experience with other amps to compare them with the Lyr. Maybe I do have a problem in my Lyr and that it needs to get checked out. Mike, maybe the tubes are not properly mounted or they have become loose during the transportation? I don't know. If what Mike is saying true and I trust his judgment, I don't know what to say. Maybe more knowledgable head-fi members and Jason can help us out?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Grokit,
> X3!
> A Dallas area Head-Fi member graciously offered to lend me his already burned-in Schiit Lyr (with the stock tubes) for a few days, along with a some other gear that I haven't played with yet.  I've heard that lending gear is not all that uncommon for this forum, but I have to say, it's a wonderful thing, from my perspective, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to educate my ears without having to spend any money first!
> 
> ...


 
  If your sample is as you described, it must be defective.  Bummer.


----------



## DemonicLemming

The HiFiMan cans do require a lot of juice because of their low sensitivity...when I was using my HE-4s on the Lyr, I think the volume pot was always around 12 o'clock for normal music listening.  By contrast, my LCD-2s are usually at 10 o'clock or so, listening to the same music at the same levels.
  
  Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Jason, Mike and others
> 
> Since I have been traveling, I wasn't able to check head-fi for a while. I am the owner of that particular Lyr Mike has borrowed. Mike, you have definitely not offended me at all and I applaud you for having the courage to post your impressions even if they are negative.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Jason, Mike and others
> 
> Since I have been traveling, I wasn't able to check head-fi for a while. I am the owner of that particular Lyr Mike has borrowed. Mike, you have definitely not offended me at all and I applaud you for having the courage to post your impressions even if they are negative.
> 
> ...


 

 Your source really shouldn't be a problem at all. I'd like to get the amp back and run it through a full range of tests, when you have a chance. Let me know when it's convenient, and we'll pay shipping both ways and get it back to you quick.


----------



## zilch0md

Yuce,
   
  I want to publicly thank you for your gracious support of my having posted a negative opinion of your Lyr.  It says a lot about your character and I feel considerable relief that you're not offended.
   
  For your benefit and other readers, I'd like to share a portion of one of the PMs I sent to Jason Stoddard last night:
   
  "Let me tell you that the difference between the Stepdance and the Lyr is day and night to my ears, in terms of resolution, but in no way is the Lyr putting out anything approaching a rotten sound that would wrinkle most people's brows.  In other words, just as I'm wondering if I've borrowed a "lemon," I think it equally reasonable to wonder if at least some of the most satisfied Lyr owners aren't hearing EXACTLY what I'm hearing and either don't have LCD-2s and/or just haven't heard incredibly clean, controlled and highly detailed sound, the likes of which I'm getting from my Stepdance.  Yes, the Stepdance doesn't offer the dynamics and bass extension of the Lyr (due to the difference in power), but the Stepdance does offer a lot more resolution and transparency than what I'm hearing from this particular Lyr.  Keep in mind that there are many shades of grey between black and white - and the differences I'm noting are a shade of grey that's an easily detectable difference, but not black, if you can follow that analogy."
   
  So, for those who might interpret my original post as a SURE indication that the Lyr in question is just plain defective, please understand that Jason hasn't had a chance to look at it yet and in my opinion, with my ears, listening and comparing the Stepdance to the Lyr, I have no problem imagining that the degradation of detail I'm hearing could very well be common to every Lyr or perhaps even to the majority of tube amps. (Keep in mind that I admit having no experience listening to the LCD-2s with any amp other than the Stepdance, and I firmly believe my ability to detect this difference in resolution is, in part, made possible by the fact that I'm using the LCD-2.)  Again, this lack of detail relative to the Stepdance, for which I continue to have no doubt whatsoever, is just a readily detectable difference - a distinct shade of grey - not a total meltdown of detail.  As I wrote previously, it's enough to destroy the low-volume echoey, reverby details that I've concluded are paramount to establishing the sound stage and air we all crave.  
   
  I think Jason and the majority of readers would agree that Watts alone do not make a successful amp. Headroom and the traits that come with it are wonderful attributes of the Lyr, but there are many desirable traits an amp can exhibit independent of available power.  It would be incorrect to assume that the Lyr's 4 Watts into 50 Ohms vs. the Stepdance's mere milliwatts would automatically guarantee superior resolution.  So to all Lyr owners, please accept the possibility at least, that an amp that outputs less power, even a little portable amp, could actually offer more detail and transparency. 
   
  I very much wish that Yuce himself were here for me to demonstrate this obvious difference in resolution between my Stepdance and his Lyr.  At this writing, I'm awaiting Yuce's permission to send the amp to Jason for inspection, so that we can get his very valuable input and perhaps even a fix.
   
  Mike


----------



## Yuceka

Mike, 
   
  As you said, I wish I was in Dallas to be able to make an assessment as well but I am still stuck in Washington and had to wait for several flight cancelations due to weather conditions. 
   
  I don't think anyone should be offended by your impressions on Lyr, nor should think at the same time maybe Lyr is not a good amp. My amp may be defective but I liked it when I had it so if it turns out to be defective and I get a fixed/new, better Lyr, then I can say all of those who are reading this thread: BUY THIS AMP 
   
  Also one word about the company, before I bought my M-Stage, I was considering buying an Asgard and I followed both respective threads and decided to go with the M-Stage. And boy did I regret that decision... Not because I M-Stage was bad or that I have heard Asgard but because of Jason's attitude to his customers and his dedication and careful attention to head-fi community. I am a person who cares more about the customer service than the product itself. I don't care if I get a wonderful product with a horrible customer service; things do break and when it's time to deal with the manufacturer you sometimes wish you never bought that that "wonderful product" which has now become useless. So now, Jason's willingness to pay for the shipping both ways and not trying to dodge the problem has truly made me a Schiit fan. Jason could have easily said, "oh there's a problem in your source" or he could have made it so hard that the customer would eventually give up but that's not the case and I think he deserves an applaud here. I am happy to be a Schiit fan and whether or not I consider buying other amps or DACs in the future, I will always have some Schiit in my house : ) 
   
  PS: I give Mike okay to ship my amp at your convenience and make another comparison after he receives it back. I may not be able to check the thread or emails quite often as I will be traveling in the next days


----------



## Mikha

What are special requirements for the DAC output to have no hum or any problems with Shiit Lyr?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mikha said:


> What are special requirements for the DAC output to have no hum or any problems with Shiit Lyr?


 
  No different than any other amplifier.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Yuceka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> My source is Macbook Pro, mostly lossless files, my DAC is Stello DA100 and the Lyr as an amp. I have never heard the Stepdance so I can't comment on it but listening to HE-5 with the Lyr instead of Matrix M-Stage, I have witnessed a big improvement with the Lyr. However, I am not sure if this is even a problem but with my HE-5 I usually have to keep the volume knob at 12 or even 1 or 2 sometimes. Maybe my source (DAC) is not putting out enough voltage into the Lyr?


 

 I am not so sure that this is a problem either. 12 to 1pm with a 2-volt source is in line with what I experienced with the HE-6 out of the Lyr, and it also agrees with this six moons chart:
   

   
  I used to own the HE-5 and it's not much more efficient than the HE-6.


----------



## 169300

My Lyr should be here tomorrow. A perfect pairing for my HE-5s. I'm currently driving them out of my Zero, which surprising somehow can actually drive them pretty well. Although, it definitely lacks in sound quality of what the HE-5s are capable of doing.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





hmjburner said:


> My Lyr should be here tomorrow. A perfect pairing for my HE-5s. I'm currently driving them out of my Zero, which surprising somehow can actually drive them pretty well. Although, it definitely lacks in sound quality of what the HE-5s are capable of doing.


 

 Yeahhhh Buddy!!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





hmjburner said:


> My Lyr should be here tomorrow. A perfect pairing for my HE-5s. I'm currently driving them out of my Zero, which surprising somehow can actually drive them pretty well. Although, it definitely lacks in sound quality of what the HE-5s are capable of doing.


 

 Batten down the hatches and tie your behind to the sofa, you're in for some real Schiit.  You are going to hear what your HE-5's are all about, for the first time.
  
  After you burn-in for a week, roll in some 6N23P's, you'll think a veil has been lifted.  Not that the JJ's are bad, just not as good as other options.


----------



## zilch0md

Revisiting my somewhat infamous post made two days ago in this thread:
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> At this writing, I've spent about four hours swapping between my only other amp, a 15V-powered Stepdance and the Schiit Lyr, using only my Sony PCM-M10 as a source and only my LCD-2s at the other end.
> 
> ...


 

 And considering Grokit's earlier post:
   
  Quote:


grokit said:


> X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because *the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification*, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.



   
  And leesure's post, to which Grokit was responding:
   
  Quote:


leesure said:


> I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  *It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.*  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
> 
> 
> 
> [snip]



   
  I just finished reading Tom Martin's review of the Apex Peak/Volcano (which, admittedly, is an unfair comparison to the Lyr, in terms of price):  
   
  But when I read the following two paragraphs from Tom Martin's review, I realized that my comments regarding the Lyr's lack of resolution are inversely synonymous with Tom Martin's comments regarding the apparently excellent resolving power of the Apex P/V:
   
   
   Quote from http://www.avguide.com/review/apex-peak-headphone-amp-volcano-power-supply-playback-44
   


> Listening to the Peak/Volcano combo suggests that a really good front end can do a lot to restore the highest levels sonic transparency that sometimes seem lacking in headphone-based systems. *In short, this amp has an astonishing level of resolving power that shows up in its superior handling of spatial information, instrumental decays, and other low-level signals. These small signals are a key test of amplifier resolving power. This isn’t just a sporting thing; it’s the kind of difference that really matters for many kinds of music—if you care about realism.*
> 
> *The Peak/Volcano also expresses its superior resolution in the way it separates instruments. Many amps create a harmoniously blended sound on ensemble work (e.g., the sound of many instruments playing in a band at the same time)—a sound that is pleasantly homogenized, yet for that very reason is also inaccurate.* The Peak/Volcano helps you realize that this kind of homogenized presentation is actually the result of lesser amplifiers smearing the distinct sounds of individual instruments into a wash. Once the Peak/Volcano’s much higher levels of resolution come into play, however, you instead hear more detailed contributions from each instrument in the ensemble, and in a way that doesn’t sound at all unnatural, but rather sounds more like the real thing.


 
   
  Having obtained Yuceka's permission to send his amp to Jason Stoddard to get his analysis, I'll be mailing it tomorrow morning, but I am increasingly concerned that Yuceka's Lyr could be "working as designed."
   
  Mike


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


zilch0md said:


> Revisiting my somewhat infamous post made two days ago in this thread:
> 
> 
> And considering Grokit's earlier post:
> ...


 
   
  I personally wouldn't pair the LCD2s with the Lyr.  IMHO, it's a bottleneck for the LCD2s.  Now, I heard it with stock tubes and I don't know if rolling tubes helps but from what I've heard of the pairing, the Lyr doesn't do justice to the LCD2s the same way a WA22, balanced Isabellina, a modded Mad Ear+ HD, or RSA Apache do.  Based on this and Grokit's experience, I would think the same is true of the HE-6.  It holds back the resolution of both cans, so I can relate to what you're saying here Mike.  Of course, there's still nothing that can drive ANY of the planars at the same price point, but price no object, you've got to do better than the Lyr for those two kilobucks, or live with the fact that you're not getting 100% out of your cans.
   
  For something like the HE-5LE, HE-4, and the HE-500 to a lesser extent, the Lyr is perfect as those cans have an inherent lack of resolution compared to the aforementioned two.
   
  I know a couple of you are very happy with the LCD-2 / HE-6 pairing with the Lyr and that's cool - this is just my humble opinion.


----------



## jronan2

We know all this tho. I don't think anyone here that owns an Lyr is expecting it to beat out amps that are double triple and more its base price. Not everyone has 3 or 4 grand to blow on a high end system. I'm not expecting the Lyr to be the greatest amp for the LCD 2 or anything else. I'm hoping for it to be the best choice out of $450 of my hard earned money. Personally when I buy a product whether it be head fi, a gadget, a bike whatever floats my boat, I want to get the most out of my money, and that is what the Lyr does. Not to mention Schiit is making a name for themselves as far as customer service, and with a 5 year warranty.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


jronan2 said:


> We know all this tho. I don't think anyone here that owns an Lyr is expecting it to beat out amps that are double triple and more its base price. Not everyone has 3 or 4 grand to blow on a high end system. I'm not expecting the Lyr to be the greatest amp for the LCD 2 or anything else.* I'm hoping for it to be the best choice out of $450 *of my hard earned money. Personally when I buy a product whether it be head fi, a gadget, a bike whatever floats my boat, I want to get the most out of my money, and that is what the Lyr does. Not to mention Schiit is making a name for themselves as far as customer service, and with a 5 year warranty.


 

 That it is, most definitely.  I'm not knocking the product at all.  In fact I still plan to buy one for my 5LEs.  I'm quite tired of fooling around with speaker amps.
   
  But you know, if you take tonal balance out of the picture the biggest difference between the HE-4s, HE-5LEs and the LCD-2s is resolution.  So if you're going to settle for compromised resolution then I don't see the sense in investing in the higher end headphone in the first place, you can save about $500 of your hard earned money instead.


----------



## jronan2

That is something I know nothing about yet, which is why I need to get to a meet and try some of the best amps out there and really see what I am missing. But again I believe my ears aren't the best and I wouldn't call myself a true audiophile, I try and keep things very simple and just want to enjoy my music. And since I put my main computer rig together finally last week I have been toe tapping ever since, even my girl is using it and she used to make fun of headphones and what not.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Revisiting my somewhat infamous post made two days ago in this thread:
> 
> 
> And considering Grokit's earlier post:
> ...


 

 Ummm, you neglected to include the next sentence in my comment...
   
_I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions *and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair*...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA._
   
*I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.*
   
  If you're going to use my comments to futher your agenda, please include all the provisos.


----------



## Kremer930

To respond to Zilch's comments, I am quite surprised that more people dont come out in support of the resolving power of the Lyr.  I really dont know what the cause of the apparent problem is with Zilch's audio chain, be it his cans, dac, cables etc but I will be expecting Jason to test the subject Lyr and confirm that is up to specification and performance.  It will be interesting to see this one play out.
   
  I have a pair of HE6 and they can resolve all that the Lyr throws at them.  When hooked up to a fully competent source like the Bryston media server and dac and playing lossless high res files the Lys is able to recreate music that would make you think that you were only metres from a live performance.  
   
  The Lyr lacks very little in ultimate capability.  It may certainly be a few percent short compared to high end Woos (there have been several reports of the Lyr being a preferred amp to W006SE), RSA, Peak Volcano etc but I would be very surprised that the Lyr could not better a portable source such as the Meier.  If the stepdance is so great...why does the Concerto get blown into the weeds by the Lyr from my personal listening comparisons with my HE6?
   
  I can only guess that a tube was loose or faulty.  Given the amps owner never raised this issue of sound quality it tends to point towards damage in transit or to Zilch's components.
   
  Jason has been amazing in the way that he is picking up the cost for something that I personally feel will not be his cause.  That has to be applauded.  
   
  If I was experiencing these problems with my Lyr (or any audio component for that matter) I would roll in some different tubes at least before making a public statement declaring the lack of capability of the subject product, especially when there are so many that are admirers.


----------



## ianmedium

macedonianhero said:


> jamato8 said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting. Odd, I have compared the Lyr to a number of good portables, and my fi.Q, and I don't hear a loss of detail of highs or smearing of frequencies or problems with complex passages.
> ...




Then you have obviously not heard what a Stepdance fed with a clean 15v of power can do! To say no portable amp can power them to levels that give the LCD's ability to shine is to not have heard the Stepdance/Energizer combination, if you are ever in this neck of the woods I would be more than happy to let you listen to mine.

This is not just my feeling but the feelings of several folks I know with extremely good home HiFi set up's and also the opinions of a high end HiFi store here who heard my set up.

With the extra power feeding the Stepdance please do not think of it as "just" a portable as it simply is not!


----------



## Kremer930

Is it better than the concerto then?


----------



## ianmedium

kremer930 said:


> Is it better than the concerto then?




I can't comment on that as I have not heard the Concerto. I have compared the Stepdance with a Nagra PL-P and whilst I admit the Nagra is better neither myself or the owner of the Nagra felt the Stepdance was the poor relation. In fact my friend with the Nagra went out and purchased a Stepdance before they stopped this present version along with the external battery for when he is away on business.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 And the fi.Q can be fed by 24 volts of external power and the PB-2 can be fed by external power and the 71B has been talked about quite a bit with regards to powering hard to drive phones and doing an exceptional job. So there are portables that can do a very fine job of it. 
   
  On the resolving power of the Lyr, well for me it does an excellent job and after years of high end audio and having built my own high end equipment, I know what I hear in music, the good and bad.


----------



## Kremer930

I also want to add that I really do hope that Zilch is able to find the problem and is able to hear what the Lyr can do when some Slam and Impact is added to an already great sound.


----------



## Rope

One item I do not believe has been addressed in this thread, or perhaps I missed the reference, is recording quality.  The majority of current day recordings are terribly compressed, with little or no dynamic qualities.  Crappy recording sound crappy regardless of the equipment used to reproduce the material.  I've had good results from Telarc and Chesky, although there are others such as Blue Note.
   
  When I choose to do some critical listening, I either listen to the disc itself or WMA lossless.  Nothing else seems to suffice.


----------



## zilch0md

leesure,
  
  I apologize for cherry-picking your comment.  Grokit had quoted your entire post when he responded with his negative comment regarding the Lyr's resolving power.  I should have done the same.  
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> Ummm, you neglected to include the next sentence in my comment...
> 
> _I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions *and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair*...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA._
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In case anyone is interested, I'm selling the Lyr with bonus Valhalla tubes. Check the listing on my sig. Love the Lyr, but money's tight. Getting rid of the HE4 and D7000 as well.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Kremer,
   
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Is it better than the concerto then?


 

 Like ianmedium, I've never heard the Concerto, but given that both the Stepdance and the Concerto were designed by Jan Meier and that the Concerto offers a lot more power, not to mention other benefits, no doubt, it's pretty obvious that the Concerto should be able to do circles around the Stepdance in terms of overall SQ (not to mention Skylab having once recommended that I consider upgrading from the Stepdance to the Concerto - and he has heard both of them.)
   
  All that said, please allow me to reiterate that what my Stepdance delivers which my borrowed Lyr does not is resolution - and with that the air, soundstage, and imaging that I believe (as does Tom Martin, per his review of the Peak A/V) is literally dependent on an amp's resolving power.
   
   
  Is the Lyr more powerful than the Concerto?  Yes.  
   
  Is the Concerto more powerful than the Stepdance?  Yes.
   
  Thus, the Lyr is more powerful than the Stepdance - no question.
   
   
  Does the Stepdance convey the dynamics and bass extension of a Concerto?  I don't know, but it's highly unlikely, given the difference in power.  
   
  Does a Concerto convey the dynamics and bass extension of a Lyr? I don't know, but it's highly unlikely, given the difference in power.  
   
  Thus, it's highly unlikely that the Stepdance conveys the dynamics and bass extension of a Lyr, given the difference in power.  *Indeed, I have not made this claim*.
   
   
  Does the Stepdance convey more detail than a Concerto?  I don't know, but the fact that the Concerto has more power does not preclude the possibility that the Stepdance is the equal of the Concerto or even better than the Concerto in terms of resolution.  (Hint:  More watts does not guarantee more detail.)
   
  Does the Concerto convey more detail than a Lyr?  I don't know, but the the fact that the Lyr has more power does not preclude the possibility that the Concerto is the equal of the Lyr or even better than the Lyr in terms of resolution.  (Hint:  More watts does not guarantee more detail.)
   
  Thus, it's not impossible for the Stepdance to convey more detail than a Lyr.  Indeed, that's what I'm hearing when I compare my Stepdance to the Lyr I've borrowed - more detail and all that comes with it, despite the enormous power advantage of the Lyr.  (Hint:  More watts does not guarantee more detail.)
   
  Mike


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In case anyone is interested, I'm selling the Lyr with bonus Valhalla tubes. Check the listing on my sig. Love the Lyr, but money's tight. Getting rid of the HE4 and D7000 as well.


 


  Wow. That sucks I hope you get through it. Sad for me to even see you have to let your stuff go.


----------



## Kremer930

Sorry to hear that mad lust. I hope that the work situation picks up for you soon. I know what it feels like. I took a year off at the beginning of the GFC to renovate the house and it took me an extra 6 months to find something good again. Best of luck to you.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> leesure,
> 
> I apologize for cherry-picking your comment.  Grokit had quoted your entire post when he responded with his negative comment regarding the Lyr's resolving power.  I should have done the same.
> 
> Mike


 

 Thank you.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> To respond to Zilch's comments, I am quite surprised that more people dont come out in support of the resolving power of the Lyr.  I really dont know what the cause of the apparent problem is with Zilch's audio chain, be it his cans, dac, cables etc but I will be expecting Jason to test the subject Lyr and confirm that is up to specification and performance.  It will be interesting to see this one play out.
> 
> I have a pair of HE6 and they can resolve all that the Lyr throws at them.  When hooked up to a fully competent source like the Bryston media server and dac and playing lossless high res files the Lys is able to recreate music that would make you think that you were only metres from a live performance.
> 
> ...


 
  Zilch seems to be riding his hobby horse so hard, before even giving Jason a chance to see what's going on, that it makes me very suspicious that there isn't some other issue going on in the background, therefore, it's another grain of salt blowing in the wind until Jason reports back.


----------



## MrScary

zilch0md said:


> leesure,
> 
> I apologize for cherry-picking your comment.  Grokit had quoted your entire post when he responded with his negative comment regarding the Lyr's resolving power.  I should have done the same.
> 
> Mike


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Zilch seems to be riding his hobby horse so hard, before even giving Jason a chance to see what's going on, that *it makes me very suspicious that there isn't some other issue going on in the background,* therefore, it's another grain of salt blowing in the wind until Jason reports back.


 
   
  +1


----------



## sferic

x2


----------



## grokit

Everybody keeps quoting the fact that I made a negative comment re the Lyr, but I really was just pointing out the superior resolving quality of the LCD-2 compared to the K701, which I thought was an ideal match for the Lyr. My WA22 brings out the LCD-2's potential more than the Lyr does, but with the K701 I actually preferred the Lyr; if I had been looking for the perfect amp for my K701 I would have kept it. The Lyr is also a very dynamic preamp for a speaker system, I think that is where I miss it the most.


----------



## zilch0md

*Well that makes four of my fellow Head-Fi members who have fallen to making an ad hominem argument - attacking my reputation instead of attacking my argument. *
   
  From my first post on the subject of the borrowed Lyr, I've made it clear that I acknowledge the very real possibility that it could be defective in some way - that the borrowed Lyr could have a problem that all Lyrs do not.  I am nevertheless concerned that this might not be the case - that Jason Stoddard might  find nothing wrong with it - but I'm as keen on getting his analysis as everyone else is - perhaps more so.
   
  For the record, my most recent argument is not the spawn of some undisclosed nefarious motive - it was merely a logical rebuttal to Kremer930's straw man argument that if a Stepdance isn't as good as a Concerto, it can't be as good as a Lyr (paraphrasing).  Just because that makes sense in and of itself, doesn't mean that it addresses the argument I've made.  His argument is therefore fallacious, as is the 4x ad hominem argument.
   
  Quoting Kremer930:  " I would be very surprised that the Lyr could not better a portable source such as the Meier.  If the stepdance is so great...why does the Concerto get blown into the weeds by the Lyr from my personal listening comparisons with my HE6?"  
   
  I'm omitting the majority of what he posted, but I submit that Kremer930's argument does not address my argument that, based on what I'm hearing, the Stepdance simply delivers more detail (and all the benefits that accompany more detail) than the Lyr I borrowed. I've not come close to suggesting that the Stepdance outperforms the Lyr in regards to those traits for which the Lyr excels - dynamics (slam) and bass extension, for example - traits that can be attributed to the Lyr's power advantage, unlike the traits an amp can posses independent of any power advantage.
   
  I'll be taking a seat in the corner 'til further notice.


----------



## zilch0md

Grokit,
   
  Please know that you were not among those I was addressing as having made an ad hominem argument.  
   
  Thanks for the clarification of your opinion regarding the Lyr's resolution.  Apparently, I had misinterpreted that which I had quoted:
   
   
  Quote:



grokit said:


> X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with the higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.



   
  So much for taking a seat in the corner - maybe I should leave the room.
   





   
  Mike


----------



## Kremer930

zilch0md said:


> *Well that makes four of my fellow Head-Fi members who have fallen to making an ad hominem argument - attacking my reputation instead of attacking my argument. *
> 
> From my first post on the subject of the borrowed Lyr, I've made it clear that I acknowledge the very real possibility that it could be defective in some way - that the borrowed Lyr could have a problem that all Lyrs do not.  I am nevertheless concerned that this might not be the case - that Jason Stoddard might  find nothing wrong with it - but I'm as keen on getting his analysis as everyone else is - perhaps more so.
> 
> ...




The main objection I had with both you individually and your post was that you raised unfounded accusations against the Lyr without adequate investigation into the cause. Had Jason not been responsive and willing to test the amp then you would have damaged the brand and product reputation without clear proof that the Lyr was to blame. 

I do not want to attack a fellow headfier as we enjoy these forums as a source of opinion and knowledge but we need to be careful where we throw mud.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> The main objection I had with both you individually and your post was that you raised unfounded accusations against the Lyr without adequate investigation into the cause. Had Jason not been responsive and willing to test the amp then you would have damaged the brand and product reputation without clear proof that the Lyr was to blame.
> 
> I do not want to attack a fellow headfier as we enjoy these forums as a source of opinion and knowledge but we need to be careful where we throw mud.


 
   
  I posted my honest impressions of the Lyr's resolution relative to that of the Stepdance, but you are describing my impressions as "unfounded accusations" made "without adequate investigation into the cause."  
   
  All negative impressions can damage the reputation of a brand or product.  The potential for such consequences does not, in an of itself, make those impressions "unfounded accusations."
   
  Having heard with my own ears a dramatic degradation of detail when using the Lyr, relative to the detail I can hear with the Stepdance, I posted my impressions and opinions.  
   
  What is it that makes my impressions "unfounded" in your eyes?  
   
  How would you define "an adequate investigation into the cause?"
   
  Is it common for reviewers to obtain "clear proof" of a unit's failings before posting their impressions or opinions?
   
  Be advised that I am neither the first nor the last reviewer of products in any industry who will share his observations, impressions and opinions freely, be they negative or positive.
   
  Mike


----------



## Kremer930

So details aside... Why would you believe that you are the only person so far out of many users astute enough to discover the Lyrs lack of resolution? Even the amps owner had not raised such an issue. 

I am looking forward to Jasons findings.


----------



## ZorgDK

I can't really comment on how well the Lyr deliver resolution because my source is quite a limiting factor. The Lyr sounds great to me though. But when I get my Anedio D1 DAC I'll be able to tell. The D1 DAC also has a build in amp so I can compare to the Lyr. I'll post my impressions on this when I get the DAC.


----------



## Kremer930

Zilch. Let's call a truce and hope that you locate the cause of your problems.


----------



## olor1n

Wow, that Stepdance must be some amp! Fwiw, changing tubes have yielded some considerable changes even on my lowly HD650. If the LCD-2 is as resolving and responsive as described then the increase in balance, transparency and resolution from tubes like the 6N23P should be more than apparent. I'll never criticize the stock JJ's as harshly as some here (I do like it's coloured presentation), but I now understand the use of words like veiled and smeared when describing its signature.


----------



## leesure

Zilch0md...
   
  You taking clips of my comments to make it look as tho was agreeing with your assessment is OK, but me agreeing that your repeated comments seemed to be pushing an agenda is bad?
   
  OK then.


----------



## Rope

Is this the Meier Audio thread?


----------



## zilch0md

leesure,
  
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> Zilch0md...
> 
> You taking clips of my comments to make it look as tho was agreeing with your assessment *is OK*, but me agreeing that your repeated comments seemed to be pushing an agenda is bad?
> 
> OK then.


 
   
  I never defended my having failed to quote your entire post - in fact, I apologized and you accepted the apology graciously.  But here, you're making an argument based on the false premise that I have defended that behavior rather than apologizing for it.
   
  Ignoring your false premise, we're left with:  "...but me agreeing that your repeated comments seemed to be pushing an agenda is bad?"
   
  Mike


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> *Well that makes four of my fellow Head-Fi members who have fallen to making an ad hominem argument - attacking my reputation instead of attacking my argument.*


 
  You have no argument.  Nobody's arguing.  We're all just waiting to hear back from Jason.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Is this the Meier Audio thread?


 

 This must be the place!


----------



## jamato8

I have listened with the LCD-2, HE-6 and the HE-500 (just about my favorite phone), with what I would call complex music, music with a lot of dynamics and subtle contrasts that still have to be maintained within the soundscape for everything to sound right, pleasurable and real and I have not been let down. I have had my doubts as I figure just because I think I hear something doesn't mean I shouldn't put it to the test, even a number of times and if I am wrong, then so be it but I hear music with all the complexities on what I consider to be very revealing phones with one being quite demanding of power requirements.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> leesure,
> 
> 
> I never defended my having failed to quote your entire post - in fact, I apologized and you accepted the apology graciously.  But here, you're making an argument based on the false premise that I have defended that behavior rather than apologizing for it.
> ...


 

 Feel free to argue semantics, but you only apologized when called out on it. 
   
  And I haven't attacked you ad hominem...I did question whether you had an agenda due to the the vehement and vociferous nature of your comments after your initial impressions.


----------



## sperandeo

Tonight my Schitt Lyr stopped working. I can hear my music at a very low volume when the amp is on and the volume knob does not adjust the volume. When I turn the amp off, the volume will increase and now the volume is controlled by my iPod. Its acting as a pass-through without amplification when the amp is off. 

I thought it might be the tubes, but it did the same thing with any of the tubes I tried.

 It's a sad day when your Schiit don't work. 

:rolleyes:


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





sperandeo said:


> Tonight my Schitt Lyr stopped working. I can hear my music at a very low volume when the amp is on and the volume knob does not adjust the volume. When I turn the amp off, the volume will increase and now the volume is controlled by my iPod. Its acting as a pass-through without amplification when the amp is off.
> 
> I thought it might be the tubes, but it did the same thing with any of the tubes I tried.
> 
> It's a sad day when your Schiit don't work.


 
   

  Steve,
   
  As I said in my email--not a clue! I gave you a couple of suggestions to try, but if that doesn't work, we'll get it back and have the amp fixed up pronto.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## Uchiya

Oh btw, kind of noobish but I thought you all should know.  Don't turn on the Lyr with a pair of iems plugged in.  You could blow a driver.  I know I did on my TF10's.  LAWL.
  More reason to get some JH16's or some nice sm3 v2's!


----------



## Snips

Quote: 





uchiya said:


> Oh btw, kind of noobish but I thought you all should know.  Don't turn on the Lyr with a pair of iems plugged in.  You could blow a driver.  I know I did on my TF10's.  LAWL.
> More reason to get some JH16's or some nice sm3 v2's!


 


  Normally I wouldn't even plug an IEM into something that puts out so much power.


----------



## Loevhagen

Got an impression of the Schiit Lyr yesterday at a head-fi gathering. We used the Burson HA-160D as a DAC to the Lyr. IC were a pair of silver cables. Hence, the setup in question comparing the headphone output on the Lyr to the H-output on the 160D should be an OK method checking out the differences. The Lyr had the stock tubes.
   
  Consensus was that the differences in sound from the headphone output (using K701/2 and Audeze LCD-2) was almost insignificant. Two of us thought the Lyr had a tiny bit more "spark / drive" than the 160D. Pragmatically: No significant differences.


----------



## jamato8

You had the Lyr on the wrong side, it should have been on the right.


----------



## Loevhagen

Oh. Is that right? Yeah, that´s right.


----------



## jamato8

It looks like you got the model with the tubes on the left side. You needed the one with the tubes on the right side.


----------



## leesure

Nice photos.  Glad to hear the Lyr stood up to another high end higher priced competitor.


----------



## zilch0md

leesure,
   
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> Feel free to argue semantics, but you only apologized when called out on it.
> 
> And I haven't attacked you ad hominem...I did question whether you had an agenda due to the the vehement and vociferous nature of your comments after your initial impressions.


 

 Logic, not semantics.
   
  This is your illogical attempt to rebut my very logical rebuttal to a fallacious argument you had made that was based on the false premise that I had at some time defended my having cherry-picked your quote. 
   
  In your first statement, above, you're suggesting there's a relationship between my having argued semantics, which is a false premise in itself, and my not having apologized until called out on it.  Yet again, you are making a fallacious argument, attacking the man instead of speaking to the argument made by the man.  It's true that I did not apologize until called out on it, but this fact is of no logical value to you in rebutting my argument that your last argument was fallacious due to your false premise that I had at some time defended my having cherry-picked your quote.  You are not speaking to my argument, you are simply attacking me.  Yes I'm a convicted murderer, but I have not at any time, as you falsely stated, claimed innocence.  You lied, but persist in spotlighting my transgression rather than answering my argument that your lie was a false premise for your previous argument. 
   
  In your second statement, above, having just made another ad hominem argument, you ironically claim that you've not done so in questioning my agenda.  You might as well have said, "I've never attacked your honor and integrity, I've only expressed my suspicion of your honor and integrity."   Now that's semantics...
   
  Mike


----------



## Loevhagen

Yup.  Just keep in mind that you need a DAC to the Lyr prior to conclude on price / competitor. I guess many of us look forward to the Schiit DAC and the RRP.
  
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> Nice photos.  Glad to hear the Lyr stood up to another high end higher priced competitor.


----------



## olor1n

^ Mike, your posts are no longer relevant to this thread. If you want to continue bickering, please carry on in PM.


----------



## zilch0md

Ever since posting my impressions of the Lyr, I've been responding to fallacious assertions.  
   
  Read the posts to which I'm responding. 
   
  If someone claims I said something I didn't, I will respond.
   
  If someone attacks my integrity, I will respond.
   
  Mike


----------



## zilch0md

For the benefit of those still interested,
   
  I shipped Yuceka's Lyr to Jason Stoddard via USPS Priority Mail, yesterday, and he has already reimbursed the postage, via PayPal.
   
  Thanks Jason!
   
  Mike
   
  (Edited to correct spelling:  It's Yuceka not Yucetka.)


----------



## Kremer930

All head-fiers will be judged by their peers based on their contributions and comments. No amount of arguing will likely change those views.


----------



## leesure

_instead of speaking to the argument made by the man._
   
  The argument made by the man has been rebutted on multiple occasions now by owners who do not share your impressions.  The owner of company who made the product you impuned has offered to examine the amp to make sure it's functioning as you seem to be the only one expressing these impressions (owners and reviewers alike), yet you persist in attacking the product and company without waiting to discover whether the product is functioning properly or not.  Hence my agreement on the doubt about your motives.
   
  To be clear again, I DO NOT share your impressions regarding the resolving power of the Lyr.  While I do not think it resolves as well as SOME amps costing 4-6 times the price, I do feel is does a VERY credible job in this area.  And that's with the stock JJ tubes after a fair break in period.  With 6BQ7/6BZ7 tubes the layering and detail are even better. It's a significant upgrade fro the Gilmore Lite that sat where the Lyr sits in my system now.


----------



## Kremer930

Zilch. Thanks for sharing the news of the return of the Lyr to Jason. I am looking forward to hearing of the cause of your reduced resolution. What will you likely do if the Lyr tests as normal? Will you look to other possible conflicts in your audio chain or conclude that the Lyr lacks in ability? It may be worth your while to roll in some different tubes. Scary and Jamato and others are having some great results from some pretty cheap tubes.


----------



## sphinxvc

As always, excellent pics Loevhagen.


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> ^ Mike, your posts are no longer relevant to this thread. If you want to continue bickering, please carry on in PM.




+1


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> It looks like you got the model with the tubes on the left side. You needed the one with the tubes on the right side.


 
  Being right-handed like most folks, it would be nice if the Lyr did have the tubes on the left side, with the headphone output to the left of the volume control.  Is Jason a leftie?


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


kremer930 said:


> Zilch. Thanks for sharing the news of the return of the Lyr to Jason. I am looking forward to hearing of the cause of your reduced resolution. What will you likely do if the Lyr tests as normal? Will you look to other possible conflicts in your audio chain or conclude that the Lyr lacks in ability? *It may be worth your while to roll in some different tubes.* Scary and Jamato and others are having some great results from some pretty cheap tubes.


 

 Mike, I agree with this.  For the sake of being complete with this mini-review, maybe you ought to roll to some not-so-expensive alternatives when the Lyr comes back.  All the impressions I'm reading of the stock JJs in comparison with other tubes seem to jive with your impressions of the Lyr itself.  I'm starting to think we're underestimating the tubes' impact on the sound signature.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Got an impression of the Schiit Lyr yesterday at a head-fi gathering. We used the Burson HA-160D as a DAC to the Lyr. IC were a pair of silver cables. Hence, the setup in question comparing the headphone output on the Lyr to the H-output on the 160D should be an OK method checking out the differences. The Lyr had the stock tubes.
> 
> Consensus was that the differences in sound from the headphone output (using K701/2 and Audeze LCD-2) was almost insignificant. ... Pragmatically: No significant differences.


 
  That's been basically my impression of the Lyr as well with LCD-2's compared to the headphone output of the Lavry DA11, which is known for it's excellent transparency.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Yep.  And there are some very nice tubes that aren't expensive at all to play with.
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Mike, I agree with this.  For the sake of being complete with this mini-review, maybe you ought to roll to some not-so-expensive alternatives when the Lyr comes back.  All the impressions I'm reading of the stock JJs in comparison with other tubes seem to jive with your impressions of the Lyr itself.  I'm starting to think we're underestimating the tubes' impact on the sound signature.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> It looks like you got the model with the tubes on the left side. You needed the one with the tubes on the right side.


 
  That had to be the UK model, right?  Everyone knows that they drive on the left and the 6922s are some of the best drivers around.  HK model as well.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Being right-handed like most folks, it would be nice if the Lyr did have the tubes on the left side, with the headphone output to the left of the volume control.  Is Jason a leftie?


 
  Whether he is or isn't a leftie, left handed people are the only ones in their right minds.


----------



## jamato8

This conversation is getting so cerebral I am starting to feel left out. Am I right or am I right? 
   
  I like the way the Lyr sounds with the HD650. Very open and nice staging with distance.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> This conversation is getting so cerebral I am starting to feel left out. Am I right or am I right?
> I like the way the Lyr sounds with the HD650. Very open and nice staging with distance.


 

 Depends upon what's left, right?


----------



## Rope

If Schiit were to offer an Lyr Australian model, would the tubes be on the bottom?


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Whether he is or isn't a leftie, left handed people are the only ones in their right minds.


 

 4 of the last 5 US Presidents have been lefties...not sure if that helps or hurts your argument tho.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Kremer930,
   
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Zilch. Thanks for sharing the news of the return of the Lyr to Jason. I am looking forward to hearing of the cause of your reduced resolution. What will you likely do if the Lyr tests as normal? Will you look to other possible conflicts in your audio chain or conclude that the Lyr lacks in ability? It may be worth your while to roll in some different tubes. Scary and Jamato and others are having some great results from some pretty cheap tubes.


 

 You're welcome.  I know several people are interested.
   
  To answer your question, whether Jason finds a problem with Yuceka's Lyr and fixes it or finds no problem with it whatsoever, when he sends the amp back to me, I will again make the comparison I described in my original impressions:
   
     Sony PCM-M10 Line-Out > Lyr > LCD-2     vs.    Sony PCM-M10 Line-Out > Stepdance > LCD-2
   
  I will then report my impressions, as heard with my equipment, my ears, my choice of music, etc. - just as before.
   
  I don't want to force his generosity, but Jason has said via PM that he might include some better tubes when he returns the Lyr.  I have no experience at replacing tubes, so I asked Jason to go ahead and mount the better tubes if he chooses to include them, returning the original pair unmounted.  
   
  After making the comparison I've described above (as originally performed), I could try swapping between the two pairs of tubes, to see if I can hear a difference in resolution (or other traits) between one pair and the other, and relative to the Stepdance, otherwise using the same hardware as originally used (PCM-M10 Line-Out > amp > LCD-2).  
   
  I don't have access to any other tubes, nor any other amps with which to make a comparison, but I do have another item that Yuceka loaned me, which could rule out the possibility that my source, the Sony PCM-M10 Line-Out, somehow has better synergy with the Stepdance than with the Lyr that I've sent to Jason:  an April Music Stello DA100 DAC.  
   
  That thing blew my mind the first time I heard it with my Stepdance and LCD-2.  I had no idea that my Sony PCM-M10's Line-Out was lacking in any way, until I removed its 32 GB microSD card,  and inserted it into my Windows7 laptop, to which I had attached the Stello DA100 > Stepdance > LCD-2.  Playing some of the very same 96/24 and 44.1/16 WAV files from the very same media (the microSD card), I couldn't believe what I've been missing using the Sony PCM-M10.  
   
  Having never ventured out of the cage defined by the Sony PCM-M10's DAC, the resolution I'm hearing with the Stello DAC is nothing short of a revelation.  Subjectively, I have issue with how bright it sounds relative to my Sony PCM-M10 Line-Out, and I believe its bass extension isn't as great as the Sony's [Edit applied May 29th: With a lot more listening, I have to say the bass extension is superior to that of Sony's DAC], but the resolution, detail, and transparency are bordering on analytical.  I'm using that word in a negative sense, but there's no question that I prefer the resolution offered by the Stello over that offered by the PCM-M10 Line-Out (as heard with the Stepdance > LCD-2).
   
  I so crave the detail I'm hearing with the Stello DA100 > Stepdance > LCD-2, that I'm now looking hard at a portable equivalent of the Stello - the CLAS - but I would have to buy an iDevice, too, so it may be a while before I retire the Sony PMC-M10.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  In any case, I think Jason will gladly report his findings to this thread, prior to any additional impressions from me.  Stay tuned...
   
  Mike


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> ...
> I don't want to force his generosity, but Jason has said via PM that he might include some better tubes when he returns the Lyr.
> ...


 
  Interesting.  You'll have to tell us what tubes he returns the Lyr with ...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> I don't want to force his generosity, but Jason has said via PM that he might include some better tubes when he returns the Lyr.  I have no experience at replacing tubes, so I asked Jason to go ahead and mount the better tubes if he chooses to include them, returning the original pair unmounted.


 

 To clarify: we do not "mount" any tubes in the amp when shipping. They are shipped in a separate, padded insert which fits within the main box. 
   
  Also to clarify: the word "better" was never used (by me) in reference to the alternate tubes in my PMs.
   
  If the amp is working fine and the JJs test fine, I expect to send back the original JJs, plus some 6N1Ps for the heck of it. I know some people like 'em better, some people aren't thrilled with 'em, etc, but I figured it was a nice thing to do. 
   
  In either case, I'll let everyone know what we find, good or bad.
   
  I certainly hope the amp wasn't shipped with tubes in it! If it was, they're probably broken. In that case, it'll get a new set of JJs and the 6N1Ps.


----------



## Loevhagen

Sorry for being blunt and (partly) ignorant; but what is it with Mike? Ignore him. It´s one-man´s-problem, and does not represent consensus of the majority of the owners.
   
  Man, it´s a Troll. And that´s stated from a Norwegian...
   
  Jason: Keep up the good work. 
   
  Disclaimer: No, I do not own any Schiit. And, haven´t pre-ordered any.


----------



## zilch0md

Jason,
   
  I had assumed the 6N1Ps you mentioned in our PM exchange were "better," but I agree that you had not described them as such.
   
  And unfortunately, not knowing any better, I did ship the amp with the tubes mounted.
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> To clarify: we do not "mount" any tubes in the amp when shipping. They are shipped in a separate, padded insert which fits within the main box.
> 
> Also to clarify: the word "better" was never used (by me) in reference to the alternate tubes in my PMs.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jason Stoddard

> Jason,
> 
> And unfortunately, not knowing any better, I did ship the amp with the tubes mounted.
> 
> Mike


 

  
  It's not the end of the world--it certainly won't hurt anything, but the tubes may shatter when they hit the edge of the inner chassis when jostled in shipping. Look at it as a USPS shipping test! 
   
  We'll replace them if they're broken, and I'll let you know if they are the originals or new tubes.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Having done plenty of ISTA testing, I'd say you guys are ahead of the curve when it comes to packing container implementation.
  
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> It's not the end of the world--it certainly won't hurt anything, but the tubes may shatter when they hit the edge of the inner chassis when jostled in shipping. Look at it as a USPS shipping test!


----------



## zilch0md

Again, I have no hidden agenda or nefarious motive.  I'm just a guy who borrowed a Lyr and posted his impressions to this thread, having compared it to the only other amp I own.  I can't apologize for those impressions failing to "represent consensus of the majority of the owners," but I can easily put myself in the shoes of someone considering the purchase of a product - any product.  My advice would be to always go with the consensus and ignore the outlier (a statistical observation that is markedly different in value from the others of the sample.)  My impressions are obviously unpopular, but they are nevertheless entirely genuine.
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Sorry for being blunt and (partly) ignorant; but what is it with Mike? Ignore him. It´s one-man´s-problem, and does not represent consensus of the majority of the owners.
> 
> Man, it´s a Troll. And that´s stated from a Norwegian...
> 
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks Jason!
   
  You are perhaps the most pleasant person with whom I've interacted since I started this mess.
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> It's not the end of the world--it certainly won't hurt anything, but the tubes may shatter when they hit the edge of the inner chassis when jostled in shipping. Look at it as a USPS shipping test!
> 
> We'll replace them if they're broken, and I'll let you know if they are the originals or new tubes.


----------



## Snips

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Thanks Jason!
> 
> You are perhaps the most pleasant person with whom I've interacted since I started this mess.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  Hehe, Jason is one of the most communicative MOTs around here. Awesome guy .


----------



## leesure

Mike, FWIW it was not your initial set of impressions that led people to question your motives. Negative reviews and impressions are not uncommon. Rather, it was the follow up comments after Jason had already agreed to look at the amp that smacked of agenda. 

While my own impressions differ from yours, I certainly respect your right to express them.


----------



## Kremer930

Hey. For some comments about the quality and performance check out page 47 of the Lyr Tube Rolling Thread. Some experienced Head-fiers put the Lyr up in comparison to the Peak/volcano, Leben, RSA Apache. Quite Amazing considering the price difference. 

Makes me wonder what Jason will be able to build when he moves higher up in the RRP range.


----------



## leesure

Jason...any news on the DAC(s)??


----------



## sphinxvc

Anyone know if the Schiit warranty is transferable?


----------



## Rope

Yes, it is transferable.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


rope said:


> Yes, it is transferable.


 

 Says it on the warranty or speaking from experience?
   
  (Just want to be sure.)


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Says it on the warranty or speaking from experience?
> 
> (Just want to be sure.)


 
   
  I emailed Jason about this. He said no.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Hey. For some comments about the quality and performance check out page 47 of the Lyr Tube Rolling Thread. Some experienced Head-fiers put the Lyr up in comparison to the Peak/volcano, Leben, RSA Apache. Quite Amazing considering the price difference.
> 
> [snip]


 

 Yes, don't miss LiqTenExp's comments in this post: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/690#post_7504500
   
  I read that entire thread yesterday, including several links to other articles.  I was so impressed (educated) by the difference that tubes can make, I've ordered two matched pairs of Mullard CV2492 (made in Great Britain, dimpled disc getter).  I'm looking forward to hearing what these sound like in the Lyr (vs. the stock JJ's.)
   
  Speaking of stuff I read elsewhere, here's a really great explanation of "getters," the halo, disk, or D-shaped structure seen at the top of some vacuum tubes:
   
   
   Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tubes:
   


> The highest possible vacuum is desired in a tube. Remaining gas atoms will ionize and conduct electricity between the elements in an undesired manner. In a defective tube residual air pressure will lead to ionization, becoming visible as a pink-purple glow dischargebetween the tube elements.
> 
> To prevent gases from compromising the tube's vacuum, modern tubes are constructed with "getters", which are usually small, circular troughs filled with metals that oxidize quickly, barium being the most common. While the tube envelope is being evacuated, the internal parts except the getter are heated by RF induction heating to help free any remaining gases from the metal parts. The tube is then sealed and the getter is heated to a high temperature, again by radio frequency induction heating. This causes some material from the getter to evaporate, reacting with any residual gases and usually leaving a silver-colored metallic deposit on the inside of the envelope of the tube. The getter continues to absorb small amounts of gas that may leak into the tube during its working life. If a tube develops a serious leak in the envelope, this deposit turns a white color as it reacts with atmospheric oxygen.


 
   
  So it's the barium coating that gets deposited onto the inside surface of the glass during manufacture that does the "getting" of stray gas atoms, as they oxidize the reactive metal.  The various structures that are commonly called "getters" (halo, disk, etc.) are only there as a place from which the barium gets vaporized by inductive heating during manufacture.
   
  Mike


----------



## jamato8

Yes, people often refer to a round getter or D shaped but that isn't really correct because as you note, the getter is what is deposited on the glass envelope. It is an accepted practice though and most tube guys know what it means. I have some tubes with 3 deposits of getter, top, side and bottom with some on both sides so there are actually 4 deposits. Then here are some with getter than you can't really see and it looks like they have none as the tube is totally clear. The Japanese took the art of vacuum very serious and developed a hard vacuum, which gives the tube a little different sound and it extends the life.


----------



## Kremer930

Whoa. Good form Zilch. From the basic tube to the top of the heap in one move. So far from my reading the Mullards appear to be the preferred choice for the Lyr. 

Interesting information on tubes. I didn't know really how they worked or were made. Appreciated.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Interesting.  I always wondered why most tubes had the silvery interior coating, and why it was lopsided in almost every tube.


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


olor1n said:


> I emailed Jason about this. He said no.


 

 Thanks.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

In other news, we have the (potentially) bad Lyr back from Mike. We're currently buried in shipping backorders, but we'll take a good look at it tonight and post our findings tomorrow.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





leesure said:


> 4 of the last 5 US Presidents have been lefties...not sure if that helps or hurts your argument tho.


 

 Curiously, which of the 5 was a rightie?


----------



## Koolpep

Hey Jason,
   
  just a small reminder that tomorrow is also the beginning of JUNE (!!!)  and no I do NOT mean Apples WWDC
   
  I am a very happy customer of your Asgard in combination with the Sennheiser HD598, love it, match made in heaven!! But now I need a DAC and would love to have a heap of Schiit at home. And help you make a Schiit-load of money in buying your products. 
   
  By the way, thank you for supplying distributors around the world (especially in the Middle East). The local "Dubai Audio Center" sells your amps faster than you ship them and they do a fantastic job promoting them. Without their guidance I would most likely not have one. They are amazing advocates for your brand.
   
  So please ship a few DACs to them too.
   
  Pretty please?
  Ralf


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks for the update, Jason!
  
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> In other news, we have the (potentially) bad Lyr back from Mike. We're currently buried in shipping backorders, but we'll take a good look at it tonight and post our findings tomorrow.


 
   
  Mike


----------



## leesure

kwkarth said:


> Curiously, which of the 5 was a rightie?




W.


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Curiously, which of the 5 was a rightie?





   
  Dubya, but Reagan was ambidextrous.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Figures...nuff said.
  Thanks!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Dubya, but Reagan was ambidextrous.


 
  Most, but not all polyticians are orally ambidextrous.  They can speak out of BOTH sides of their mouth.


----------



## zilch0md

Good one!  And that's the nice way of putting it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Most, but not all polyticians are orally ambidextrous.  They can speak out of BOTH sides of their mouth.


----------



## floydfan33

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> In other news, we have the (potentially) bad Lyr back from Mike. We're currently buried in shipping backorders, but we'll take a good look at it tonight and post our findings tomorrow.


 

 I got my shipping notice for my Lyr today!
   
  Thanks for the great service Jason!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Good one!  And that's the nice way of putting it.


 


   


  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Most, but not all polyticians are orally ambidextrous.  They can speak out of BOTH sides of their mouth.


 

 Regardless of which side of their mouth is used, every time their lips move they lie.


----------



## jamato8

I have found that like most amps, it isn't just the tubes and have found that the Lyr does sound even better after a few hundred hours. Spatial information is better presented and the bass is refined.


----------



## mayassa

My schitt also shipped today, I'm pumped my first tube amp and should have a audio gd NFB-2 DAC shipping soon to go with my hd650's.


----------



## MacedonianHero

mayassa said:


> My schitt also shipped today, I'm pumped my first tube amp and should have a audio gd NFB-2 DAC shipping soon to go with my hd650's.




^^

Almost, the Lyr is a hybrid amp. Congrats....one fabulous amp IMO.


----------



## mayassa

Is there a good thread to read on what tube are compatible with not just this amp but in general. Explaining all the tube numbers swimming in my head. Thanks


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> I have found that like most amps, it isn't just the tubes and have found that the Lyr does sound even better after a few hundred hours. Spatial information is better presented and the bass is refined.


 
   
  x2!


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





mayassa said:


> Is there a good thread to read on what tube are compatible with not just this amp but in general. Explaining all the tube numbers swimming in my head. Thanks


 
  Just like there are many different types of op amps, there were thousands of different types of tubes made. Most were not/are not applicable to audio and of those useable for audio  the operating parameters can vary greatly from a voltage amplifying tube to one that is a current tube. There are so many variables that to get a feel for tubes to be honest, requires reading as you have time and just see how each type falls. Some people prefer a certain type over another. It used to be that the 6DJ8 type was not considered a good audio tube and that one needed a 6SN7, 12AX7, 6SL7, 12AU7 etc., but even among those there would be arguments as to the real quality of audio they would prefer. And so it goes. Plug Joe's Tube Lore into google and get some good info on the 6DJ8 family and he even has some others in there. You can also to to Tube Asylum on Audio Asylum and there are many posts there (1000's). Plug in a tube number and read opinions.------------------
  ----------------------------------------------
   
  I am listening with the Seimens 6922 to Fleetwood Mac, Live at the Boston Tea Party, part 1. The sound is exceptional. Very live and open. The cleanness to the sound and purity is pure fun.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  Here's the results of the testing on the returned Lyr: nothing's wrong with it.
   
  The tubes survived shipping just fine, surprisingly. And, as far as testing goes, everything checked out. Tubes were well-matched, bias was in-spec, noise and distortion measured fine, and our final listener said, "Yep, this is good to go." 
   
  So, it's a mystery! From Mike's first description of the sound, I thought there was something grossly wrong (like we sent a 230V unit by mistake, and it was plugged into 115V--that kind of grossly wrong.) But that wasn't the case.
   
  We'll send the Lyr back today with the original tubes and some 6N1Ps.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





mayassa said:


> Is there a good thread to read on what tube are compatible with not just this amp but in general. Explaining all the tube numbers swimming in my head. Thanks


 
  A huge thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## zilch0md

Hi Jason,
   
  First, I'm glad to hear the original JJs made it there, intact - despite my having neglected to remove them before shipping the Lyr - I won't be doing that again, should the need arise to ship tube equipment.
   
  I also very much appreciate, as I'm sure the amp's owner Yuceka does, your generosity and extraordinary customer service in paying for postage both ways, for performing the free inspection and testing, and for adding a pair of 6N1Ps to the return shipment.  This is not something anyone can take for granted because your support goes so far beyond the post-purchase experience to which everyone is accustomed - not just in this industry, but everywhere we go.  I'm every bit as impressed with you personally, as Lyr owners are, for sure. I wish I had a plumber who treated me so well!
   
  I readily admit that my original negative impressions of the resolution and detail offered by Yuceka's JJ-equipped Lyr vs. my Stepdance (with my source, my music, my LCD-2s, my ears, my brain, etc.) run contrary to the consensus of opinion - and that among that consensus can be found many people who are far more experienced at critical listening than I am, not to mention more experienced at listening to many different amps, sources, headphones, etc. 
   
  All that said, when the Lyr returns, I will revisit my original test - comparing the Lyr (at first, with the original JJs) to the Stepdance, in the original component chain:
   
  44.1/16 and 96/24 WAV > Sony PCM-M10 Line Out > amp > LCD-2
   
  I can assure everyone that I will be honest.  If I still perceive the Stepdance as offering more information retrieval than the JJ-equipped Lyr, I will say so, despite the discomfort I feel even now at the prospect of having to make such a post.
   
  If, somehow, I am unable to reproduce my original findings - if I perceive the JJ-equipped Lyr to equal or outperform the Stepdance in terms of resolving power, as I'd already perceived it to do, handsomely, in terms of bass extension and dynamics, I will say so, despite finding myself with no way to explain my original findings - egg on face.
   
   
  Either way, posting my next impressions will be an awkward experience for me, but I will be honest, and for readers of this thread, please remember, I'm just one voice in a crowd.   As I wrote recently, my advice to anyone considering the purchase of a product is to always go with the consensus, ignoring any outliers, and that includes ignoring me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  In any case, Jason, you and your product are winners in garnering the massive appreciation I've witnessed among your customer base.
   
   
  Stay tuned...
   
  Mike
   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Here's the results of the testing on the returned Lyr: nothing's wrong with it.
> 
> ...


----------



## ocswing

zilch,
   
  I will only say that I think on both sides of the argument it was pointless to continue after Jason said he would take a look at the amp. At that point it really needed to be confirmed if the amp was in working order cause it was going to undermine whatever anyone said. Not trying to discredit your opinion whatsoever, and I look forward to what you find on the re-test. May I also make a request that after performing the test the exact same way, if you could change the tubes, and I think you mentioned you had another source as well. I don't expect that you'll get wildly different results, but I am interested in what changes you do hear when changing those things. People say that the Lyr is pretty transparent and shows differences in the chain very well, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
   
   
  Thanks to Jason and Schiit for their incredible customer service. That's one thing that's awesome to see for anyone interested in purchasing from you. It's been interesting reading how this has unfolded, and while people's opinions may differ on the details of the product, it has been shown that Schiit is a pretty good company that stands behind their products. As someone looking into an amp that definitely carries weight in my decision.


----------



## ZorgDK

Thanks to Jason for the superb service. I shall be following the saga of Mike's Lyr experience..  Be sure to say what you think of the 6N1P's too, Mike.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ZorgDK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Be sure to say what you think of the 6N1P's too, Mike.


 
   
  Will do - and as I wrote yesterday, I've ordered two matched pairs of Mullard CV2492 (made in Great Britain, dimpled disc getters), so I'll be listening to those as well.
   
  Mike


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Stay tuned...
> 
> Mike


 
   
  Mike, your findings didn't surprise me a bit, they in fact paralleled my own limited experience with the Lyr. I have wondered since if I didn't give the amp or tubes enough time to burn in but after my Ed8 issue I couldn't send it back quick enough. This adventure cost me two months without my Ultrasones and almost $100 for the "audition". Evidently Jason couldn't find anything wrong with my Lyr either.


----------



## DemonicLemming

I don't think burn-in would have made any difference; I listened to mine straight out of the box, with a couple different headphones, and never heard anything like what zilch described.  I'd just put it down to ears being ears, and even while a lot of people will like the amp, some won't.  I've seen someone claim an E9 is just as good an amp as a beta22; I've personally heard HD-650s and they sound like they have a pound of mud in each cup.  Divergent opinions from the norm aren't wrong or right, it's just statistics at work.
  
  Quote: 





grokit said:


> Mike, your findings didn't surprise me a bit, they in fact paralleled my own limited experience with the Lyr. I have wondered since if I didn't give the amp or tubes enough time to burn in but after my Ed8 issue I couldn't send it back quick enough. This adventure cost me two months without my Ultrasones and almost $100 for the "audition". Evidently Jason couldn't find anything wrong with my Lyr either.


----------



## Kremer930

Hi Zilch- Mike
   
  A great response in an awkward situation.  I dont think that anyone here on Head-fi will attack your opinions if you attempt to refine the cause.  It may turn out that your cans or another of your components dont match up with the Lyr or possibly that your step dance and cans have a great synergy.  It will be interesting to see if the offending link or component can be found.
   
  I personally have gained respect from your response.
   

  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> First, I'm glad to hear the original JJs made it there, intact - despite my having neglected to remove them before shipping the Lyr - I won't be doing that again, should the need arise to ship tube equipment.
> 
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

Thank you Kremer930!


----------



## Yuceka

Dang it, so my amp isn't faulty after all?  I am just kidding. I was quite quite curious as to how that amp could be bettered than what I've enjoyed so far. I haven't had Mike's impressions since the first day I get the Lyr but again I've never heard the Stepdance. But for what I paid, I have been a quite content customer of Lyr and it would just blow my mind if my amp ended up being faulty and that I would get back even a better amp. 
   
  Thank you Jason for offering a great customer service and putting the extra tubes in the box. That says a lot about your commitment to your customers. I honestly can't wait to get back to the US and listen to my HE-5 with the Lyr. 
   
  Also I do believe that some of us have been quite harsh with Mike as well. I don't think he maliciously attacks this product with an agenda behind it. He listened to it, and compared it to something else and didn't like it as much as the rest of us did. That IS fine... I hope people will  be more careful in what they say even if Mike finds the Lyr inferior to Stepdance after the second time or when he rolls those tubes. I hope it won't turn into another fight again. What we have established in this case is that the Lyr is worth buying (I am saying this as an happy owner of this amp) and businesses like Schiit should be supported at all costs.


----------



## leesure

zilch0md said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> First, I'm glad to hear the original JJs made it there, intact - despite my having neglected to remove them before shipping the Lyr - I won't be doing that again, should the need arise to ship tube equipment.
> 
> ...




As I've said before, your impressions are yours to write. Never feel awkward about that. I never took issuevwith your initial impressions. They did nt mirror my own, but that's what opinion I'd all about. The 2nd 'attack' that took my quote a bit out of context was the one that made me think 'agenda' as Jason ad already agreed to take a look and lashing out before the results seemed like it had a purpose.

In any case, I look forward to your new impressions, positive or negative. They'd be even more interesting if you have the opportunity to add another 'control'...a well regarded amp from another maker with a documented sound profile...a Woo, a Leben or even an Audio-gd...just to see if it's your comfort level and expectation from the step dance that is guiding your perceptions. Just a thought if you have the opportunity.


----------



## rayshader

Anyone had any luck using the pre out as a standalone? I am keen to hear the reviews on the pre out quality. Thanks.


----------



## grokit

The pre-out is excellent, I really enjoyed it with my speaker rig. It's very clean, dynamic, and musical, perhaps the Lyr's most underrated feature.


----------



## jamato8

Does anyone know the output impedance of the pre section? Since I have not seen a schematic of the tube section, I am still not sure how both halves of each tube are used.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rayshader said:


> Anyone had any luck using the pre out as a standalone? I am keen to hear the reviews on the pre out quality. Thanks.


 

 I'm using the Pre out to drive secondary amps and it works most excellently.  Very happy with the results.


----------



## zilch0md

Correction...
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Will do - and as I wrote yesterday, I've ordered two matched pairs of Mullard CV2492 (made in Great Britain, dimpled disc getters), so I'll be listening to those as well.
> 
> Mike


 
   
  I thought I had paid $125.00 for* two* matched pairs of Mullard CV2492, but only one matched pair arrived in the mail yesterday.  Having revisited the order page at Tubemonger, I can see that the text says...
   
*   Price = $125 Per Matched Pair*
   
  ...even though the example photo shows two pairs.  There are photos of other tubes at this site where quantities are even greater, so I'm OK with this. My mistake.  
   
  The tubes are twice as nice as I thought they were!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_Like_New_1969_78_E88CC_CV2492_Mitcham_p/541.htm
   
  There's a customer's review of these tubes at the bottom of the page.  
   
  Mine also arrived quickly, each tube in its own box, the two boxes wrapped in bubble wrap, and sealed in a rigid, waterproof, Tupperware-like container, all that inside a padded envelope!  The Tupperware-like container is so nice (not disposable), my wife jumped on it as soon as she saw it, but I told her she can have it only if I end up buying myself a Lyr!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Mike


----------



## Kremer930

Tell your wife that the tubes were $5 and it was $120 for the fancy Tupperware for her!!


----------



## WNBC

Nice tubes, I have the same set from Tubemonger.  You must be an optimist, I assumed one matched pair, but technically it should two matched pairs.  I should write them and ask for my 2nd pair.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Correction...
> 
> 
> I thought I had paid $125.00 for* two* matched pairs of Mullard CV2492, but only one matched pair arrived in the mail yesterday.  Having revisited the order page at Tubemonger, I can see that the text says...
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

Hi WNBC,
  
  Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Nice tubes, I have the same set from Tubemonger.  You must be an optimist, I assumed one matched pair, but technically it should two matched pairs.  I should write them and ask for my 2nd pair.


 
   
  Yeah, go for it!  If that works out, let me know.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Of all the tubes you have for the Lyr, are the Mullard CV2942 your favorite?  If so, why?  And what else have you tried?
   
  (Maybe I should be searching for your posts in the Lyr tube rolling thread...)
   
  Thanks,
   
  Mike


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, that Mullard in the link is one of my favorites.  GE 6BZ7 is fantastic cheap tube, though not a consensus view among all rollers.  Cryoset Reflector 6N23P-EV is another tube.
   
  Definitely check out the tube thread, the different flavors of mullards have been discussed.  With the ones you got, I find them to work really well in my system, W4S DAC-2 and HE-4/LCD-2.  1969-1978 Dimple Disc Getter CV2942 (or CV2943) have excellent smooth and buttery midrange with some compromises at the high and lows.    This is not a problem with HE-4, in my opinion has treble to spare (in a good way) so I like the Mullards you got.  There are probably other Mullards that are better all-around but then you start dipping into the $250-300 for a pair.  Check out Joe's Tube Lore, I found his review to mirror my experience with these tubes.  No regrets in the purchase.
   
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2
   
  I've only been rolling for 2 months so lots of other more experienced rollers on the Lyr tube rolling thread. 
   
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Of all the tubes you have for the Lyr, are the Mullard CV2942 your favorite?  If so, why?  And what else have you tried?
> 
> (Maybe I should be searching for your posts in the Lyr tube rolling thread...)
> 
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks!


----------



## HK_sends

I pulled the trigger on a set of Mullards from Tubemonger myself.  I frequent the tube rolling thread as well, but I have to wonder how many people really give their tubes time to burn-in and settle before they form an impression?  How many hours is reasonable?  20, 50, 100?  It seems like a lot of the guys on the tube thread roll every other day.  I just want to make sure I've a solid opinion before I accept/reject a tube's sound.
   
  The Lyr is the first tube rollable amp I've had.  I am amazed how the sound is affected so drastically just by rolling in a new set of tubes.  I am really enjoying the Lyr in my setup! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## zilch0md

That's a good point about burn in.  
   
  The Mullard CV2492s I bought were sold as Used, in allegedly Like New condition.  Given that they were made at least 30 years ago and were not sold as NOS, do you think it's safe for me to assume they are burned in?  I'm thinking maybe they have to burn in with the amp I'll be using.  Then again, maybe not.
   
  Mike


----------



## HK_sends

I posted the question on the tube rolling thread.  I'm sorry for asking the same question on two separate threads.

 -HK sends
   
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I pulled the trigger on a set of Mullards from Tubemonger myself.  I frequent the tube rolling thread as well, but I have to wonder how many people really give their tubes time to burn-in and settle before they form an impression?  How many hours is reasonable?  20, 50, 100?  It seems like a lot of the guys on the tube thread roll every other day.  I just want to make sure I've a solid opinion before I accept/reject a tube's sound.
> 
> The Lyr is the first tube rollable amp I've had.  I am amazed how the sound is affected so drastically just by rolling in a new set of tubes.  I am really enjoying the Lyr in my setup!
> 
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

I wouldn't assume that they are burned in.  Treat them as new and give them a few extra hours...they might surprise you.
  
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> That's a good point about burn in.
> 
> The Mullard CV2492s I bought were sold as Used, in allegedly Like New condition.  Given that they were made at least 30 years ago and were not sold as NOS, do you think it's safe for me to assume they are burned in?  I'm thinking maybe they have to burn in with the amp I'll be using.  Then again, maybe not.
> 
> Mike


----------



## zilch0md

I just wanted everyone who's interested to know that I received Yuceka's Lyr today (from Jason, via FedEx).  It was accompanied by the original JJs as well as a pair of 6N1Ps, courtesy of Jason.
   
  I've tested it briefly with the JJs, just to make sure it's working.  All is well thus far, but I'm going to do a lot of listening before posting any impressions, so hang in there...
   
  Here's a picture I just took of Yuceka's Lyr with the tubes I'll be rolling as I again compare the Lyr to the Stepdance.
   

   
  Stay tuned...
   
  Mike


----------



## Yuceka

I miss my Lyr


----------



## zilch0md

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> I miss my Lyr


 

 Haha!  I feel like a pet sitter!  It misses you, too!


----------



## zilch0md

I have to return my $125.00 "Like New, Matched Pair" of Mullard CV2492s for exchange - one of them has an obvious annoying hum that can be heard even when playing music.  When I swap the two tubes in the Lyr, the hum goes to the other ear.   The "bad" tube also has a visibly darker getter - the metallic coating on the underside of the glass just isn't as shiny as the other one.  
   
  Just a heads up - I'll let everyone know how well the vendor handles this.
   
http://www.tubemonger.com/returns.asp 
   
  (The "Contact Us" link at the bottom of this page doesn't provide a phone number - just an e-mail address.)
   
  Mike


----------



## Misterrogers

"(The "Contact Us" link at the bottom of this page doesn't provide a phone number - just an e-mail address.)"
   
  That's pretty common now for smaller web businesses. Hopefully you'll find him helpful, responsive and fair. It seems to have a pretty good selection.


----------



## MrScary

zilch0md said:


> I have to return my $125.00 "Like New, Matched Pair" of Mullard CV2492s for exchange - one of them has an obvious annoying hum that can be heard even when playing music.  When I swap the two tubes in the Lyr, the hum goes to the other ear.   The "bad" tube also has a visibly darker getter - the metallic coating on the underside of the glass just isn't as shiny as the other one.
> 
> Just a heads up - I'll let everyone know how well the vendor handles this.
> 
> ...




 Im sure that tubemonger will replace them. I got a pair of tubes from them yesterday luckily they were not bad.
 Out of the last 5 sets from various sources that have come in, 2 were bad luckily they were the cheap RCA tubes so I just threw them away.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks for the optimistic encouragement guys!
   
  By the way, I much prefer you new avatar to the prior one, MrScary - it was too scary.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Mike


----------



## MrScary

zilch0md said:


> Thanks for the optimistic encouragement guys!
> 
> By the way, I much prefer you new avatar to the prior one, MrScary - it was too scary.
> 
> ...




hahahaha yeah I collect skulls on my stumbleupon site so I went with a benign skull.

http://skullmania.stumbleupon.com


----------



## sferic

Bought it at the carwash for $2.99, goes in the cigarette lighter. My favorite car accessory ever. Thanks to the poor ability of point n shoots to capture contrast, I got this incredible photo of it just on a whim.
   
  Skulls are cool as Schiit!


----------



## MrScary

sferic said:


> Bought it at the carwash for $2.99, goes in the cigarette lighter. My favorite car accessory ever. Thanks to the poor ability of point n shoots to capture contrast, I got this incredible photo of it just on a whim.
> 
> Skulls are cool as Schiit!




I used to have one of those they are cool


----------



## zilch0md

A follow-up...
   
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> I have to return my $125.00 "Like New, Matched Pair" of Mullard CV2492s for exchange - one of them has an obvious annoying hum that can be heard even when playing music.  When I swap the two tubes in the Lyr, the hum goes to the other ear.   The "bad" tube also has a visibly darker getter - the metallic coating on the underside of the glass just isn't as shiny as the other one.
> 
> Just a heads up - I'll let everyone know how well the vendor handles this.
> 
> ...


 

 Tubemonger replied to my email just 2.5 hours later - on a Sunday, no less!  
   
  He has instructed me to return the tubes and said he will be shipping a new pair to me immediately (without waiting for the bad pair to arrive.)
   
  You can't beat that!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  http://www.tubemonger.com
   
  I'll post another follow-up when the transaction reaches its final conclusion.
   
  Mike


----------



## HK_sends

I got mine from TubeMonger yesterday and right off the bat, they sound sweet!  To me, they are worth the cost.
  I heard about Mullard's reputation and these tubes confirmed it.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## USAudio

FYI - There's already a huge Lyr tube-rolling thread here:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


----------



## zilch0md

This may be OT, but SWEET!  I can't wait!
   




  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I got mine from TubeMonger yesterday and right off the bat, they sound sweet!  To me, they are worth the cost.
> I heard about Mullard's reputation and these tubes confirmed it.
> 
> Cheers!
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> FYI - There's already a huge Lyr tube-rolling thread here:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread


 
  I know, but I wanted zilch0md to know they are worth the wait.  Plus, no one ever said we _couldn't_ discuss tubes here because it definitely has an effect on impressions of the Lyr. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  But I promise to confine my tube talk to the _other_ thread. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  All in good fun, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## jamato8

Here or there the tubes are part of the circuit and help make up what the Lyr is so I can't see why not address tube impressions here and impact on sound or in the other thread.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I know, but I wanted zilch0md to know they are worth the wait.  Plus, no one ever said we _couldn't_ discuss tubes here because it definitely has an effect on impressions of the Lyr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I wasn't saying you shouldn't necessarily discuss tubes here, just that there's a ton of discussion on Lyr tubes in the other thread that folks might find useful.


----------



## Kremer930

Tube talk here dilutes a prospective purchaser from being able to read what a stock standard Lyr sounds like. It is already difficult enough to search threads without users deliberately mixing topics.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> I wasn't saying you shouldn't necessarily discuss tubes here, just that there's a ton of discussion on Lyr tubes in the other thread that folks might find useful.


 
  No, I agree with you that the other thread is more appropriate to discuss tube rolling because it is specifically focused on tube rolling...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote:


kremer930 said:


> Tube talk here dilutes a prospective purchaser from being able to read what a stock standard Lyr sounds like. It is already difficult enough to search threads without users deliberately mixing topics.


 
   
  Sorry, but rolling tubes is an advertised feature of the Lyr...encouraged, even.  There was never ROE (rules of engagement) established that said this thread was for impressions using "stock tubes only".  But, if a purchaser is interested in the tube rolling aspects of the Lyr (and a lot of subjective impressions), the other thread is more appropriate.  I was just responding to a poster on this thread.
   
  ...but I digress...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## DemonicLemming

kremer930 said:


> Tube talk here dilutes a prospective purchaser from being able to read what a stock standard Lyr sounds like. It is already difficult enough to search threads without users deliberately mixing topics.




If a person hasn't been able to come up with an opinion of the Lyr with stock tubes after 94 pages, I don't think there's much that can be done to help him. Hell, most of these "Item XXX Impressions!" threads wind up being so long, they're useless, because concise useful opinions and data are buried so deep in irrelevant stuff, it would take days to sift through a single thread to come out with a good idea of what that piece of equipment is like.

Quick snippet for anyone looking for a concise opinion of the Lyr:

*Using the stock JJ E88CC tubes, powerful, reasonably transparent and uncolored; slightly curtailed at both the high and low end, as well as being slightly compressed, but overall pleasant and unassuming. 

Using some of the more popular tubes - expansive, resolving, very good lows and mids, sweet but not shimmery highs, and removed from an overly syrupy/lush tube sound without being clinical and razor-edged like solid state. 

A broad plethora of good tubes with a wide spectrum of tube characteristics will allow people with markedly different preferences to still enjoy the same amp just by rolling different tubes. For the price, an absolute sledgehammer of an amp that would still be fairly priced were it half again the retail cost.*


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> If a person hasn't been able to come up with an opinion of the Lyr with stock tubes after 94 pages, I don't think there's much that can be done to help him. Hell, most of these "Item XXX Impressions!" threads wind up being so long, they're useless, because concise useful opinions and data are buried so deep in irrelevant stuff, it would take days to sift through a single thread to come out with a good idea of what that piece of equipment is like.


 
  Question/Suggestion:  I see we can give positive feedback on individual posts by clicking on the green thumbs-up in the lower right-hand corner of each post ... is it possible to sort a thread's posts by thumbs-up count?  If you could sort the top thumbs-up threads to the top, that might be useful and filter out a lof of the fluff. 
  Sometimes the context might be confusing but you could always return to the original thread to get the context.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





demoniclemming said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well said!  My experience with the stock JJ tubes is more positive than what is bolded above.  I hear no curtailment of either end of the sonic spectrum.  When operating in spec, the amp is flat with a frequency response: 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB.  I know NOBODY can hear at either end of that spectrum.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Question/Suggestion:  I see we can give positive feedback on individual posts by clicking on the green thumbs-up in the lower right-hand corner of each post ... is it possible to sort a thread's posts by thumbs-up count?  If you could sort the top thumbs-up threads to the top, that might be useful and filter out a lof of the fluff.
> Sometimes the context might be confusing but you could always return to the original thread to get the context.


 
  I have not been able to find a way of filtering by thumbs up votes.  yet.


----------



## HK_sends

Well, you did (I believe) mention letting them burn in for a couple (or was it three?) hundred hours... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 -HK sends
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Well said!  My experience with the stock JJ tubes is more positive than what is bolded above.  I hear no curtailment of either end of the sonic spectrum.  When operating in spec, the amp is flat with a frequency response: 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB.  I know NOBODY can hear at either end of that spectrum.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ... My experience with the stock JJ tubes is more positive than what is bolded above.  I hear no curtailment of either end of the sonic spectrum. ...


 
  +1
  My impressions mirror yours.


----------



## zilch0md

Quote:  





> [snip]





> Quick snippet for anyone looking for a concise opinion of the Lyr:
> 
> *Using the stock JJ E88CC tubes, powerful, reasonably transparent and uncolored; slightly curtailed at both the high and low end, as well as being slightly compressed, but overall pleasant and unassuming.
> 
> ...


 

 Well said!  
   
  (Whew!  I'm glad that's over!)
   
  The END!


----------



## floydfan33

Hoping someone can help me here.
   
  Just received my Schiit Lyr, and am using my Nuforce Icon HDP as DAC and preamp for it.
   
  Current setup is:
   
  Yamaha CD-S1000 > SPDIF > HDP > RCA out > RCA in > Lyr
   
  My question, as I have never used a preamp, is how do I set my volume control? Do I max the HDP, and use the Lyr volume, or max the Lyr, and use the HDP volume?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## DemonicLemming

Definitely wouldn't max the Lyr's volume - given its output capability, there's a not-insignificant danger of accidentally smoking your headphones, ears, or both if someone inadvertently bumps the pre-amp volume while you're listening to music.
   
  For pre-amping, I normally adjust the level on the pre-amp to give me enough volume in the first 25% of the power amp pot rotation for normal listening.  There may be better methods, but this has always worked for me.
  
  Quote: 





floydfan33 said:


> Hoping someone can help me here.
> 
> Just received my Schiit Lyr, and am using my Nuforce Icon HDP as DAC and preamp for it.
> 
> ...


----------



## DemonicLemming

Just to hop back and clarify a bit (bad wording on my part) - I don't think the stock tubes have a cut-off of the lows and highs (re-reading what I wrote, that's what it seems like I was saying to me), but rather they're not quite as distinct and controlled with the JJs as they are with some NOS tubes.  Frequency extremes are still good with the stock tubes, but I found that NOS tubes gave a bit better bass control and texture, and more vocal enunciation and clarity on higher frequencies, especially with female vocals.
   
  If I did have to go back to the stock tubes though, I wouldn't be upset - the Lyr is still a great amp with new production valves.
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Well said!  My experience with the stock JJ tubes is more positive than what is bolded above.  I hear no curtailment of either end of the sonic spectrum.  When operating in spec, the amp is flat with a frequency response: 2Hz-200KHz, -3dB.  I know NOBODY can hear at either end of that spectrum.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





floydfan33 said:


> Hoping someone can help me here.
> 
> Just received my Schiit Lyr, and am using my Nuforce Icon HDP as DAC and preamp for it.
> 
> ...


 
  I could look up the spec for the Nuforce but can't you just go from the analog out of the dac to the Lyr? I wouldn't want something else in the signal chain as the less the better. Also by having one volume control partially used and the other volume control the same way, you have two volume controls in the signal path, which isn't a great thing either. I have done it but after a while I can tell when going back to a more direct signal path that there is better transparency and quality with the simpler signal path. IMO


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





floydfan33 said:


> Hoping someone can help me here.
> 
> Just received my Schiit Lyr, and am using my Nuforce Icon HDP as DAC and preamp for it.
> 
> ...


 

 To start, set the volume control on the HDP to 70-80% of maximum and then control the listening volume with the Lyr.  The Lyr expects a standard line level output from the DAC, so that's what you need to provide for it.


----------



## grokit

So there's no way to defeat the attenuation of the HDP's rca outs?


----------



## rsgladwin85

I finally have received my Lyr in Afghanistan today.  All I can say is "Auditory Bliss".  I'm not going to say that it's better than much more expensive amps.  What I will say is that for the price this amp is worlds ahead of what I had hoped for.  The sound it produces sends chills over my body (my ultimate test for a piece of audio gear).  Zakk Wylde's guitar solos will stand the hair on your neck at attention.  I have never heard Adele's beautiful voice so clearly presented.  While this amp may be warm, it's very pleasant and I feel as though I'm molded into my chair from the place it puts me.  Overall the separation in instruments is good as you can clearly distinguish them.  Detail is good as I'm hearing things that I haven't been able to hear in a while with the gear I have here in Afghan.  I'm not going to go into a full blown review as I have not had enough time with the amp, and also I'm in Afghan where I'm limited to resources. 
   
  I would however like to say thank you to Jason giving us this wonderful amp at such an outstanding price.  I also have to speak for Jason's customer service.  I wrote in a question to the customer service number that wasn't about anything technical, just about the shipping address I had submitted, and he responded to me himself.  That's very refreshing.
   
  On a side note as has been stated elsewhere you aren't supposed to use audio equipment through a computer UPS as the created sinewaves will interfere with the sound.  I can now attest to this.  I plugged it into one of the Battery sockets in my ups and was instantly greeted with a nice buzz.  I moved it over to one of the Surge only outlets and the buzz disappeared.  It's good to have some confirmation on what i've heard, but not yet experienced. 
   
  Thanks again Jason.


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





rsgladwin85 said:


> I finally have received my Lyr in Afghanistan today. ...


 
  I'm assuming you're in the military - If so, thanks for your service!  You guys have a tough and probably often thankless job over there but we appreciate your service to your country.


----------



## MaggiD

How does the Schiit Lyr compare to the Hifiman EF5?
   
  They both seem to be powerful hybrid headphone-amps which are sold for a reasonable price.
  Is there any major difference on the technical side?


----------



## grokit

They're both hybrids, but Lyr is twice as powerful as the EF5, 4 wpc compared to 2 wpc into 50 ohms.


----------



## zilch0md

Follow-up:
   
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Tubemonger replied to my email just 2.5 hours later - on a Sunday, no less!
> 
> He has instructed me to return the tubes and said he will be shipping a new pair to me immediately (without waiting for the bad pair to arrive.)
> 
> ...


 

 The replacement pair of Mullard CV2492 arrived on Wednesday - they do wonders for the Lyr.   And Tubemonger handled the exchange with no hassles.
   
  Mike


----------



## justie

This may seem like a silly question to ask but will anything happen if I drive low impedance phones using this amp? like explode or smth O_O very very new to amping here XD


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Justie - still have the FA-002w cans? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I regularly use my Lyr to drive my modded, smoggy tuned D2000s which are 25 Ohm. Lyr drives them wonderfully. Great dynamics. The volume knob rarely gets past 9:00, but low impedance cans still benefit from all the available power dynamically.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





justie said:


> This may seem like a silly question to ask but will anything happen if I drive low impedance phones using this amp? like explode or smth O_O very very new to amping here XD


 


  Some people who have Ulktrasones have reported blowing drivers, but the common thread seems to be that thay were plugged in and potted up ti=o normal volume when the turned the amp on.  I'd suggest turning the amp on *before* plugging low imp, high sens headphones in. 
   
  FWIW, I run my Grados with the Lyr all the time...no issues. Tho I do follow that process above.


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> Follow-up:
> 
> 
> The replacement pair of Mullard CV2492 arrived on Wednesday - they do wonders for the Lyr.   And Tubemonger handled the exchange with no hassles.
> ...


 

 Glad to hear it, Mike.  I have the same tubes (from the same source) in mine right now.  Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## justie

I always turn the amp on before plugging in and i keep it at near zero volume when plugging in before slowly turning volume up. Smth my dad (he's into speaker hifi XD) taught me and as a guitarist I been doing tat since long time ago so no problem on that front. How versatile are these lyrs? Because im thinking of getting them as my next amp but I want something that can drive all my gear instead of just a possible future orthodynamic XD
   
  @Misterrogers: yeah i still have em and using them all the time. Using my speakers less and less now...haha...shame I cant wear them out in public. Too ridiculous looking and I don wan the cups dirty/damaged


----------



## Misterrogers

I find them very versatile. I regularly use them to drive K702s, modded/smegged D2000s, DT990/600s and HD600s. To my ears, Lyr does a very good job driving all of these cans. The synergy with the DT990/600s and K702s is especially nice.With a lot of time/effort, you may find a better amp to drive each of these cans, but I don't believe you'd find many that drive all as well. Add to that Lyrs ability to driver orthos, and you've really got something here. I've heard Lyr with both HE-6 and HE-500 and it did a stellar job driving these two cans.


----------



## justie

That sounds great  but err...how do they sound compared to the fiio e9? the e9 is pretty neutral. Will the lyr colour/warm up the sounds abit? Since gutiar tube amps produce a much warmer sound(good in this case) than solid state amps.
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I find them very versatile. I regularly use them to drive K702s, modded/smegged D2000s, DT990/600s and HD600s. To my ears, Lyr does a very good job driving all of these cans. The synergy with the DT990/600s and K702s is especially nice.With a lot of time/effort, you may find a better amp to drive each of these cans, but I don't believe you'd find many that drive all as well. Add to that Lyrs ability to driver orthos, and you've really got something here. I've heard Lyr with both HE-6 and HE-500 and it did a stellar job driving these two cans.


----------



## WNBC

I've used Hifiman RE-262 (150 ohms) and Fischer Audio FA-011 (160 ohms).  Mid-level impedance, less <100dB sensitivities.  Nothing blown yet and I found the combos excellent.
  
  Quote: 





justie said:


> This may seem like a silly question to ask but will anything happen if I drive low impedance phones using this amp? like explode or smth O_O very very new to amping here XD


----------



## justie

Wonder what will happen if i plug in low impedance phones like 24~32ohm resistance headphones into them will they blow or juz go completely out of control..haha


----------



## sphinxvc

Quote:


wnbc said:


> I've used Hifiman RE-262


 

 Brave soul.


----------



## WNBC

Can't say I use that combo a lot.  Tried it and no problem but not something I do regularly.
  
  Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> Quote:
> 
> Brave soul.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





justie said:


> Wonder what will happen if i plug in low impedance phones like 24~32ohm resistance headphones into them will they blow or juz go completely out of control..haha


 


  Ive used my Futuresonic M8 IEM's in the lyr and they are 32ohm no prob


----------



## Kremer930

I tried UE Triple Fi 10's.  They are a little noisey with a low level hum with zero volume but generally all good.  I just plugged them in to see what they sound like with the 6N23P tubes.  Nice sound.
   
  The volume control doesnt move far at all though.  
   
  This is actually quite interesting.  I have been listening to a few songs whilst writing this, using the Lyr and TF10's, and it sounds nicer than my ipod classic/ibasso D12 combo.  Dohh.  Now I am thinking that I may need to look at a more powerful mobile amp.  I may have to go for a balanced ibasso PB2 for my new JH16's when they get here.  I had convinced myself that the ibasso D12 was enough but the lyr is currently showing more detail and cleaner transients.
   
  I will need to do some more research and compare the D12 being fed an optical digital signal from my computer rather than a LOD analog signal from the ipod classic 7G.
   
  The Lyr is an awesome amp though.  
   
  Now back to my HE6.  How is that for a broad ability.....


----------



## justie

Anybody tried using the Lyr as a speaker pre amp before? maybe its because my english is limited but 6moon's opinion on the matter is not very helpful with its.....'interesting' way of describing things =.=


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





justie said:


> Anybody tried using the Lyr as a speaker pre amp before? maybe its because my english is limited but 6moon's opinion on the matter is not very helpful with its.....'interesting' way of describing things =.=


 

 Don't worry about.  Its _their _English that's limited.  Probably along with the rest of their mental faculties.


----------



## grokit

I have, it's awesome.


----------



## gopack87

Quote: 





grokit said:


> I have, it's awesome.


 


  +1 I use the preamp out with my Mackie monitors, which are kinda bright sounding and the Lyr helps even out the sound


----------



## justie

Thanks for the confirmation guys. Looks like this will definitely be my next upgrade. (unless Schiit suddenly makes another upgraded model in the not so distant future XD)


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





justie said:


> Thanks for the confirmation guys. Looks like this will definitely be my next upgrade. *(unless Schiit suddenly makes another upgraded model in the not so distant future XD)*


 

  
  Who knows right but I wouldnt count on that. They have what 2 or 3 new DAC's that they are rolling out over the summer. Cant remember if it is 2 or 3 but at least 2. That should keep em busy for a while. A small shop they have, or crew at least.


----------



## zilch0md

Follow-up to my June 1st post:
  
  Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> [snip]
> 
> I readily admit that my original negative impressions of the resolution and detail offered by Yuceka's JJ-equipped Lyr vs. my Stepdance (with my source, my music, my LCD-2s, my ears, my brain, etc.) run contrary to the consensus of opinion - and that among that consensus can be found many people who are far more experienced at critical listening than I am, not to mention more experienced at listening to many different amps, sources, headphones, etc.
> 
> ...


 

 Well, here goes...
   
  I've been comparing the 15V-powered Stepdance to Yuceka's Lyr using the tubes shown here:
   

   
  (The Mullards have since been replaced with a different pair because one of them had a hum that followed it when I swapped channels.  The new pair is working perfectly.)
   
  Here's the setup, same as before:
   
  44.1/16 and 96/24 WAV > Sony PCM-M10 > *Schiit Lyr* > Audez'e LCD-2
  vs.
  44.1/16 and 96/24 WAV > Sony PCM-M10 > *Meier Stepdance* > Audez'e LCD-2
   
  Impressions:
   
  The standard *JJ E88CC* tubes still sound "fuzzy" to me - they cannot resolve detail as well as the Meier Stepdance.  This lack of resolving power degrades the soundstage and image focus, as compared to the Stepdance.  
   
  On that note, I want to encourage everyone to consider this response Jason Stoddard gave Srajan Ebaen (on the next page of this 6 Moons review of the Lyr):
   
   
  Quote: 





> _*On tube rolling*_: "For the Lyr we tried a bunch of different tubes ranging from NOS to new production. We always knew we would end up with new production because NOS is simply too sketchy in the quantities we produce. This leaves a relatively small selection of new production tubes. We settled on the JJs because they sound good with our overall design and are very consistent and reliable."
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


 
   
  The entire article is worth reading, but the point I'd like to make, here, is that the JJ E88CC is a good choice among the understandably very limited selection of tubes that are currently in production - for any amp manufacturer wanting to standardize his product.  If I were Jason, I wouldn't dream of producing an amp that's dependent on hard-to-find, used or NOS tubes that are no longer in production.  So, the JJs are the right choice for the Lyr, as shipped.  Get over it.  I did!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Back to my impressions...
   
  On my subjective scale, where the resolution I'm hearing from the *Stepdance is at 10* (higher resolving amps would be greater than 10), placing the resolution of the* JJ-equipped Lyr at 1* (lower resolving amps would be less than 1), the resolution and detail of the *6N1P-equipped Lyr is at about 5 *(a big improvement over the JJs) and the *Mullard CV2492-equipped Lyr is at about 8*.  
   
  It's very easy to hear the difference in detail between the 6N1P and the Stepdance, but even with the expensive Mullards, I don't have to strain or ask myself if I'm imagining things to tell that the Lyr equipped with Mullard CV2492s still offers less texture and detail across the entire frequency range, as compared to the Stepdance.  I'd have to listen to a lot more solid state and tube/hybrid amps, to know for sure, but I'm convinced this remaining resolution gap is nothing more than the difference between what solid state amps do well and what tubes do well.
   
  Somebody jump in and educate me if I'm wrong, here, but from my experience listening to the Lyr with three sets of tubes and from a lot of reading, I'm convinced that you have to spend a lot of money (starting at about $2000 for the Apex Peak/Volcano) to get yourself a tube or hybrid amp that can deliver detail similar to the portable Stepdance or any other great solid state amps.  But if you really want that tube sound, which I've grown to find very appealing, thanks to the Lyr, and you're willing to suffer a very slight, but completely acceptable degradation of resolution when using a good source and unforgiving phones like the LCD-2,* I strongly recommend getting the Schiit Lyr with a matched pair of Mullard CV2492s *(for about U.S. $125.00), or for longer life, an NOS matched pair (new old stock, never used) for about U.S. $300.00.  Not only are the Mullard CV2492s more detailed, they just have a really appealing sound, and the Schiit Lyr allows these tubes to strut their stuff very nicely.
   
  Being new to tube/hybrid amps, I'll not going to try to distinguish the three pairs of tubes by their tubey traits (how sweet, warm, lush, euphonic, or ??? each pair sounds - there are plenty of posts to be read about these tubes, written by people who can express those traits far better than I can.)
   
  I recently read InnerSpace's review of the Apex Pinnacle vs. Leben CS300XS, in which he wrote the following:
   
  Quote: 





> I look at the Pinnacle and I see a neon sign that says “Wanna hear _everything_ on that track?”  And then I look at the Leben and I see a neon sign that says, “Wanna party?”


 
   
  When I read this, I realized that's how I feel about the Meier Stepdance and the Schiit Lyr.  Seriously.  They're just the poor man's equivalents of an Apex Pinnacle and a Leben CS300XS.  (OK, I'm not poor, I'm just not rich!)  
   
*I can't think of a better sounding solid state amp for the money than the Stepdance* (when you want an amp that somewhat forfeits the Lyr's best traits for neutrality, precision, accuracy, resolution, and transparency), *nor can I think of a better sounding tube or hybrid amp for the money than the Lyr* (when you want an amp that somewhat forfeits the Stepdance's best traits for warmth, sweetness, musicality, and smoothness).  Long live Jason Stoddard and Jan Meier!
   
  I can honestly say I would love to own a Schiit Lyr to go with the Mullard CV2492s - that's a whole lot of audio for the money - but it will have to wait, as I'm currently still trying to improve my portable rig (I'm considering an iMod or a CLAS to replace the Sony PCM-M10.)
   
  Thanks!
   
  Mike


----------



## HK_sends

Excellent impressions!  Very well written and expressed!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## USAudio

Quote:


zilch0md said:


> ...
> The entire article is worth reading, but the point I'd like to make, here, is that the JJ E88CC is a good choice among the understandably very limited selection of tubes that are currently in production - for any amp manufacturer wanting to standardize his product.  If I were Jason, I wouldn't dream of producing an amp that's dependent on hard-to-find, used or NOS tubes that are no longer in production.  So, the JJs are the right choice for the Lyr, as shipped.  Get over it.  I did!
> ...
> *I can't think of a better sounding solid state amp for the money than the Stepdance* (when you want an amp that somewhat forfeits the Lyr's best traits for neutrality, precision, accuracy, resolution, and transparency), *nor can I think of a better sounding tube or hybrid amp for the money than the Lyr* (when you want an amp that somewhat forfeits the Stepdance's best traits for warmth, sweetness, musicality, and smoothness).
> ...


 
  Thanks Zilch for taking the time to give us your impressions.
   
  FYI - It's not just Schiit that settled on the JJ tubes, as far as I can tell the highly-regarded Cavalli Liquid Fire uses the identical tube.
   
  When you compared the 2 amps, did you have the levels matched as closely as possible?  If so, how did you do the matching?  This is *critical* in making fair comparisons.


----------



## zilch0md

I use a lapel mic with my 3rd Gen Touch and a free SPl and Real Time Analyzer app by JL Audio. My Sony PCM-M10 has an A->B function that allows me to select any portion of a track to loop repeatedly until I hit Play or Stop. It allows me to use Pause, though, so that I can stop and restart the loop while I switch amps. I start by just trapping the lapel mic between the ear pads with the LCD-2 sitting on the table. 

Once I've adjusted the volumes of both amps so that the peaks are hitting 85 db, louder than I normally listen, usually, I'm ready to loop that section several times with one amp, studying it, before I switch amps and loop it several times. I sometimes go back and forth between amps on that same loop before I reach any conclusions. Other times, a particular loop I've selected is so revealing of a disparity in performance, I'm done after just matching the volumes, putting on the headphones, and running the loop just a couple of times on the second amp (after studying the first amp for several loops).

Mike


----------



## zilch0md

hk_sends said:


> Excellent impressions!  Very well written and expressed!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...




Thanks!

Mike


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





zilch0md said:


> *I can't think of a better sounding solid state amp for the money than the Stepdance* (when you want an amp that somewhat forfeits the Lyr's best traits for neutrality, precision, accuracy, resolution, and transparency), *nor can I think of a better sounding tube or hybrid amp for the money than the Lyr* (when you want an amp that somewhat forfeits the Stepdance's best traits for warmth, sweetness, musicality, and smoothness).  Long live Jason Stoddard and Jan Meier!


 


  you cant think of a better sounding SS amp? you mean of all SS amps? or portables? or... cuz thats a huge statement.


----------



## zilch0md

Hi caracara08,
  
  Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> you cant think of a better sounding SS amp? you mean of all SS amps? or portables? or... cuz thats a huge statement.


 

 That's reductive.  
   
   
   Quoting the first few words of what you quoted...


zilch0md said:


> *I can't think of a better sounding solid state amp for the money than the Stepdance...*


----------



## Kremer930

Zilch. Great review. You have my interest now in the stepdance for my portable rig. Does it perform nearly as well without the external power? 

I would love to see the stepdance compared directly to the apex or Leben to get an overall feel. Pretty impressive result though.


----------



## ianmedium

caracara08 said:


> you cant think of a better sounding SS amp? you mean of all SS amps? or portables? or... cuz thats a huge statement.




As Mike clearly states, _for the money_ one would be hard pressed to find a better sounding solid state amp than the stepdance. To hear it with the external battery pack is something quite remarkable. It surprises me it does not have a greater following for it does a wonderful job for portable as well as a great home amp for headphones.. Sorry to go OT but I wanted to back Mike up on this as he is responsible for a huge body of work on getting the stepdance to perform to it's very best IMHO.


----------



## Kremer930

pseudohippy said:


> Who knows right but I wouldnt count on that. They have what 2 or 3 new DAC's that they are rolling out over the summer. Cant remember if it is 2 or 3 but at least 2. That should keep em busy for a while. A small shop they have, or crew at least.




Jason has already confirmed 3 dacs and an amp. He hasn't made too much public yet on the amp but definitely watch out for it. It should be very sweet. 

Check out the Schiit DAC thread for a summary of information releases.


----------



## SHAHZADA123

I prefer the Headroom Ultra Amp/Dac with LCD-2s over both WA22(stock tubes) & Lyr(6N1Ps).
  Great speed, excellent resolution, heavy, punchy bass & tube-like warmth
  
  Quote: 





> Somebody jump in and educate me if I'm wrong, here, but from my experience listening to the Lyr with three sets of tubes and from a lot of reading, I'm convinced that you have to spend a lot of money (starting at about $2000 for the Apex Peak/Volcano) to get yourself a tube or hybrid amp that can deliver detail similar to the portable Stepdance or any other great solid state amps.  But if you really want that tube sound, which I've grown to find very appealing, thanks to the Lyr, and you're willing to suffer a very slight, but completely acceptable degradation of resolution when using a good source and unforgiving phones like the LCD-2,* I strongly recommend getting the Schiit Lyr with a matched pair of Mullard CV2492s *(for about U.S. $125.00), or for longer life, an NOS matched pair (new old stock, never used) for about U.S. $300.00.  Not only are the Mullard CV2492s more detailed, they just have a really appealing sound, and the Schiit Lyr allows these tubes to strut their stuff very nicely.
> 
> Being new to tube/hybrid amps, I'll not going to try to distinguish the three pairs of tubes by their tubey traits (how sweet, warm, lush, euphonic, or ??? each pair sounds - there are plenty of posts to be read about these tubes, written by people who can express those traits far better than I can.)
> 
> ...


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks Ian!
   
  Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> As Mike clearly states, _for the money_ one would be hard pressed to find a better sounding solid state amp than the stepdance. To hear it with the external battery pack is something quite remarkable. It surprises me it does not have a greater following for it does a wonderful job for portable as well as a great home amp for headphones.. Sorry to go OT but I wanted to back Mike up on this as he is responsible for a huge body of work on getting the stepdance to perform to it's very best IMHO.


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks Kremer930!
   
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Zilch. Great review. You have my interest now in the stepdance for my portable rig. Does it perform nearly as well without the external power?
> 
> I would love to see the stepdance compared directly to the apex or Leben to get an overall feel. Pretty impressive result though.


 

I've posted a reply in the Stepdance impressions thread.
   
  Mike


----------



## sphinxvc

Great update Zilch, kudos to you for all the trouble you've gone through giving the Lyr a thorough shot.  Head-fi is better for it.
   
  Thanks for the contribution.


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Mike,
   
  Thanks for taking the time to give the Lyr an extended listen--especially to the point of getting some (very nice) tubes for it. I really appreciate that you took the effort to re-evaluate an amp that seemed so sub-par to you on first listen. Sounds like I have to check out the Stepdance if I ever get out of the office! (Full disclosure: we have no plans for mobile gear.)
   
  And, it's funny--every amp designer has their goals, and ours, in order of importance, go something like this: tonal accuracy/honesty, detail/resolution, and soundstage/imaging. That doesn't mean we don't want to get 10/10/10 on all 3, but if it's 10/9/8 vs 7/10/9, we'll do the former.
   
  I'd be interested to see what you think of the JJs after a couple hundred hours, but that's just curiosity speaking. We do find they open up, settle down, and get better, but I wouldn't expect them to equal the CV2492s.
   
  If you want an interesting, inexpensive tube that might get closer to the Mullards, try the 6BZ7. But again, this isn't prescriptive. Just an idea.
   
  Some more amp-design-y related stuff, just in general:
   
  One of the things we wanted to do was to give everyone an opportunity to try a lot of different tube types and see what works best for their system. That's why Lyr is divided into only one voltage gain stage (the tubes) feeding one current gain stage (the dynamically adaptive output stage.) Since the operating point of the tubes is set by a current source, they'll all run at the same set parameters. So, CV2492/3, 6BZ7, 6DJ8, E88CC, 6922, 7308, even 6N1P--they're all fair game. 
   
  Of course, I have to caveat this: if you don't know if the tube pinout is compatible, stick to the tubes named above, or what people are using in the tube rolling thread.
   
  Now, I have to be scarce for a while--working the final DAC details now. Expect the announcement to be June 30. Yeah, I know, we're skating right to the end of the month, but Mike Moffat wants this to be absolutely, 100% right. 
   
  Oh, and one final note: Schiit Audio is officially one year old today. We got our first order on June 15, 2010.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## zilch0md

Thanks again for all of your great support Jason!    ...and...   Happy Birthday!  
   
  I didn't know Schiit had accomplished all this in just one year.  Amazing!
   
  Mike


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> ...
> Oh, and one final note: Schiit Audio is officially one year old today. We got our first order on June 15, 2010.
> ...


 
  Congratulations Jason and happy birthday Schiit Audio!
   
  I for one am enjoying my Schiit Lyr and find it to be very transparent and accurate, keep up the good work!


----------



## jamato8

Congratulations Jason and I am looking forward to reading more about the dac and seeing images. I think the 6BZ7 is about the biggest bang for the buck in the tube arsenal there is. With prices of tested tubes down to 2 dollars and extreme availability who could ask for anything more? :^)


----------



## mhamel

There's an extensive thread about tube rolling in the Lyr.... lots of info about the 6BZ7 there.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread

    -Mike

  
  Quote: 





usaudio said:


> How is the 6BZ7 different from the stock JJ E88CC's?
> 
> How does it sound different?
> Does it run hotter/cooler?
> Are they only available NOS or also of new manufacture?


----------



## HK_sends

Happy Schiity Anniversary (ok...fine...Birthday!), Jason!
  ...and I mean it in a good way! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## leesure

Happy birthday Schiit!  Congrats Jason. 
   
  Looking forward to what the next year brings.


----------



## pseudohippy

Yup, happy b-day. Im loving my Schiit everyday. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Kremer930

Wow. Only one year old. If Schiit can do all of this at a crawl... Just imagine when they start to walk...and run!!
Happy Birthday, congratulations and Thankyou for the sweet tunes.


----------



## tkteo

Congratulations to all staff at Schiit. I am very impressed by the Lyr.


----------



## okw3188

Another satisfied cusotmer
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The Lyr really opens up another level of capability for the LCD-2. I'm really enjoying the golden days of vacuum tube sound with a pair of NOS Telefunken E88CC.


----------



## IMAWolf

hey guys i'm currently undecided between the schiit lyr and a used darkvoice i can get for around the same price, opinions?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





imawolf said:


> hey guys i'm currently undecided between the schiit lyr and a used darkvoice i can get for around the same price, opinions?


 


  I say Lyr that way you can power any cans you want plus just a simple tube change on the Lyr makes it sound like a much more expensive amp.
  Check out the tube rolling thread for the Lyr


----------



## Kremer930

imawolf said:


> hey guys i'm currently undecided between the schiit lyr and a used darkvoice i can get for around the same price, opinions?




I used to own a darkvoice 337 with some nice tubes in it and it is a beautiful amp. It looks awesome too with the big tubes glowing. But put in at least a set of 6N23 or better tubes in the Lyr and it is at least as good. The punch, bass extension, and ability to drive every can almost except electrostatics and super efficient low impedance iems and cans makes it an easy choice. Plus it is 1/4 the size.


----------



## caracara08

lyr + hd800, any thoughts? what i get from the reading the forum is that, the lyr doesnt really compare to the higher priced tube amps for headphones like the hd800 because it lacks some clarity or what not.  with the power hungry orthos, they seem to do well, but those will better tube amps, generally seem to say its at the right price point. under 500$ tube amp.  is that right? because i was thinkig of picking one up or a WA3+


----------



## Kremer930

I am fairly sure that people that own the WA3 and the Lyr have made direct comparisons of the abilities of each with High end dynamic cans. The Lyr generally gets compared to the WA6SE and above rather than below.


----------



## sphinxvc

I do think it competes extremely well with the WA6 and betters it in _some _areas.  The 6SE is a different story.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





sphinxvc said:


> I do think it competes extremely well with the WA6 and betters it in _some _areas.  The 6SE is a different story.


 


  thats what i was thinking, but i think i read that the hd800 doesnt pair well with the WA6.


----------



## jamato8

As time was marched on I continue to notice the small details in the music the Lyr reveals. I am listening to some Peter Green, "Soho Session" on the second CD. On Terraplane Blues, there is a buzzing in the right channel from electronics. I have noticed it before but it is laid bare with the Lyr, giving it a more real presence and true electronic defined sound, if that makes sense. The detail is fine but I don't think I would want any more. This is with the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plate, which are outshining my Siemens 6922's.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Jamato8 - each time you mention the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates, I go hunting for them on the web. I haven't had any lock identifying them. Is there a specific query that would help cull them out of the noise? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey Jamato8 - each time you mention the Sylvania 6BZ7 grey plates, I go hunting for them on the web. I haven't had any lock identifying them. Is there a specific query that would help cull them out of the noise? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.


 
  Not really. The 6BZ7 isn't popular so people aren't going to work at getting the grey plate out for a 3 dollar tube but go to some on line sellers and ask for a 6BZ7 Sylvania grey plate. They know grey plate from black plate, I hope.


----------



## Misterrogers

Thanks, I'll do that.


----------



## bmoura

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Jason Stoddard* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> And, it's funny--every amp designer has their goals, and ours, in order of importance, go something like this: tonal accuracy/honesty, detail/resolution, and soundstage/imaging. That doesn't mean we don't want to get 10/10/10 on all 3, but if it's 10/9/8 vs 7/10/9, we'll do the former.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Good advice from Jason.  The Mullards are very nice.  And the 6BZ7 tubes are surprisingly good at a very low price.  Probably the place to start for anyone wanting to tube roll on a budget with the Lyr. 
  And the JJs - they do get better with burn-in with the Lyr.  Choices, choices......


----------



## MrScary

bmoura said:


> Good advice from Jason.  The Mullards are very nice.  And the 6BZ7 tubes are surprisingly good at a very low price.  Probably the place to start for anyone wanting to tube roll on a budget with the Lyr.
> And the JJs - they do get better with burn-in with the Lyr.  Choices, choices......




Depends on which Mullards you are talking about people use Mullard as one tube set. There are many Mullards (type) the best sounding for the money are the vintage 60's Mullard ECC88's they are around for about 100.00 and sound fantastic.


----------



## obazavil

Any1 here has checked/tried the HE-500 with Lyr?
   
  I hear that He-4 with Lyr is amazing, but I have not read a lot about HE-500+Lyr


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


obazavil said:


> Any1 here has checked/tried the HE-500 with Lyr?
> 
> I hear that He-4 with Lyr is amazing, but I have not read a lot about HE-500+Lyr


 
  Probably just because it's still a fairly new headphone.  I'm sure the Lyr will sound just as good with the HE-500.  I wish I could get a pair to compare against my LCD-2s.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  -HK sends


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Any1 here has checked/tried the HE-500 with Lyr?
> 
> I hear that He-4 with Lyr is amazing, but I have not read a lot about HE-500+Lyr


 


 If you look on page 63, 64, 65 of this thread, Leesure comments briefly on the HE-500's in conjunction with the Lyr.


----------



## Rope

Why we're on the subject of the Lyr and its prowess to drive Planar cans, I'm considering a purhcase of HiFiman HE-series, and wondering if Planars in the HF arena are on the same playing field (sonic wise) as traditional speakers such as Magnepan, which I might add, I really don't care for.


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





rope said:


> Why we're on the subject of the Lyr and its prowess to drive Planar cans, I'm considering a purhcase of HiFiman HE-series, and wondering if Planars in the HF arena are on the same playing field (sonic wise) as traditional speakers such as Magnepan, which I might add, I really don't care for.


 

 I find the HE6 to be very dynamic and punchy as well as having all of the detail of a HD800.  I havent listened to any other the other HE range but I would expect the HE5 to sound almost the same.  
   
  Lyrs and either Audezes or Hifiman planars are awesome combinations IMO.


----------



## Rope

Thanks Kremer, great info!


----------



## pockits

I got one today...
   
  any good tube you can recomend... May be mullard? phillips?


----------



## MrScary

pockits said:


> I got one today...
> 
> any good tube you can recomend... May be mullard? phillips?




Either the Mullard vintage E88CC 1960's you can find them for around 120.00 if you look on ebay etc
or Mullard IEC ECC88 either one is a great starting point and will make your Lyr sing


----------



## tkteo

Does anyone know what the output impedance of the Lyr is?


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Does anyone know what the output impedance of the Lyr is?


 
  Of the headphone or the preamp outputs?  The headphone output is <1 Ohm:
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/530556/new-schiit-lyr-hybrid-6w-headphone-amp-yes-six-watts-rms/600#post_7354290
  Not sure about the preamp outputs.


----------



## tkteo

Thank you for the information.


----------



## shaunybaby

So i have bought the rca (van den hul ''the name'') cable for the schitt lyr amp and just about to buy the amp its self.
   
  i got to ask any one that had just a nuforce hdp and how the upgrade is to the lyr?
   
  im going to be using the nuforce as a dac and preamp to the lyr, my headphones atm are hd650,s and grado sr225is.
   
  how well will these headphones scale with the lyr and in what areas does the lyr shine?
   
  how long does the lyr take to settle in?
   
  sorry for all the questions its just this is my first headphone amp and i have looked around and have read up on the lyr alot but no one has asked these sorts of questions.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey shaunybaby. I'm using an HDP (DAC) to source my Lyr, and it sounds great! I take the HDP with me when I travel and find its headphone amp pretty damn good, but not nearly as dynamic and versatile as Lyr. I believe that Lyr with a good set of tubes will be quite an upgrade for you.


----------



## MrScary

shaunybaby said:


> So i have bought the rca (van den hul ''the name'') cable for the schitt lyr amp and just about to buy the amp its self.
> 
> i got to ask any one that had just a nuforce hdp and how the upgrade is to the lyr?
> 
> ...




It takes about 50 hours or so before you start noticing the change in sound. The stock JJ's are a bit harsh in the top end but will sound good with the HD650's. I would recommend picking up either a pair of Mullard E88CC's or Mullard ECC88 IEC tubes that will
make your Lyr shine. YOu can find more information about tube rolling here
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1155#post_7574091


----------



## shaunybaby

Thanks for the words of comfort i am really looking forward to a uprade in sound i havn,t had a upgrade to my system for about 7 months and i got this itch that just won,t leave me alone.
   
  i hope it has been worth the wait 
   
  @ ''Misterrogers'' and ''MrScary'' thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## MrScary

shaunybaby said:


> Thanks for the words of comfort i am really looking forward to a uprade in sound i havn,t had a upgrade to my system for about 7 months and i got this itch that just won,t leave me alone.
> 
> i hope it has been worth the wait
> 
> @ ''Misterrogers'' and ''MrScary'' thanks for the quick reply.




welcome


----------



## Misterrogers

no worries.


----------



## MrScary




----------



## zyth3x

I have been reading the forums for quite a while now and decided to join in on things. I currently have the LCD-2's with the Meier Concerto/StageDAC combo and was seriously considering selling the Concerto and moving to the Lyr to pocket some cash and potentially get more out of the LCD-2's, especially with the ability to tweak the sound with different tubes.
   
  Worth it? opinions are greatly appreciated. Also, is now a good time to get a Lyr? will Schiit release an even higher end amp anytime soon?
   
  Cheers, great forum by the way but jeez is it a time vampire...


----------



## ocswing

Thanks to Misterrogers and the San Diego meet a few months back I've been set on getting a Lyr and I should finally have the money after this next paycheck. I'm pretty excited and I noticed that Schiit is now offering GE 6BZ7 NOS tubes for sale, as well in place of the JJ E88CC tubes. Do you guys think it would be better to get the GEs?


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Thanks to Misterrogers and the San Diego meet a few months back I've been set on getting a Lyr and I should finally have the money after this next paycheck. I'm pretty excited and I noticed that Schiit is now offering GE 6BZ7 NOS tubes for sale, as well in place of the JJ E88CC tubes. Do you guys think it would be better to get the GEs?


 

 Yep, I would get the GE's over the JJ's.


----------



## Misterrogers

Without a doubt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The GE 6BZ7 is a fantastic tube, and has great synergy with Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

misterrogers said:


> Without a doubt
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Any of the 6BZ7 tubes sound good. The RCA have more air to them then the GE's have better midrange, the Sylvania's also sound tremendous


----------



## Misterrogers

Agree with all of MrScary's observations - with the exception of Westinghouse/Canada. Not good.


----------



## ocswing

I'm not sure I want to get into tube rolling yet. If the 6BZ7s are a good upgrade over the JJs then it makes sense to get them with the initial order. The Lyr is already more than I was originally planning on spending (thanks Misterrogers), and I've seen how much some of you guys are spending in the tube rolling thread. Curiosity is evil with this hobby!


----------



## Misterrogers

You're very welcome! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 You can always spend more, but bang for buck - Lyr is awesome. Pardon my failing memory, but where you interested in the DT990/600s? If so, Lyr + DT990/600 + GE 6BZ7s makes for a mighty fun, synergistic system.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> You're very welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I was interested in the DT990/600s. Kept coming back to them that day. I've been going through the FS section to try and save some cash, but not many of those have been popping up. I did get a good deal on a HRT Music Streamer II+ and AKG K701s though. I'm hoping with the Lyr and the Beyers I'll have a well rounded setup I can use for awhile before upgrade-itis hits.


----------



## Misterrogers

I thought that was you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It's certainly all subjective, but based on your enjoyment of the rig I brought, I think you'll find Lyr + DT990/600 + MSII+ with the GE 6BZ7s a very enjoyable, quality rig. I've heard better 'phones (HE-500, HE-6) with this chain, and the DT990s (if you like their sound - which I know you do) hold their own. Plus, they're one of the most comfortable headphones I've ever wore. They're light, have just the right clamping force, and cush. I literally wear them all day (8+ hours).


----------



## pockits

I am waiting for my baby to arrive... is on backorder but I think i will enjoy it very much...
   
  I will use it with the dt 990, denon ah-a100, and sony mds-sa 5000.
   
  I hope to have it soon... keep posted.


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey pockits - I'll be very interested to hear your impressions of your T1s with Lyr. T1s are on my short list of headphones I must have.


----------



## obazavil

Heh... another DT990 user here  use them all day with E7/E9... but I'm going to get bifrost+Lyr soon 
   
  Didn't know dt990 and lyr made good combo, glad to hear... now k702 i wonder how they sound with lyr....


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I thought that was you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha yeah, I stopped by your rig a lot that day. Thanks again for letting me play with it. I can't wait to hear the setup again, just need my paycheck to come in!


----------



## pockits

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey pockits - I'll be very interested to hear your impressions of your T1s with Lyr. T1s are on my short list of headphones I must have.


 


 Sure thing.. I will post it as soon as I get the Lyr ...
   
  I think it should go as smooth and it is... because with the A1... they rock although they tend to tired your hears soon.


----------



## shaunybaby

so i did it ''a man has become a boy''.
   
  yeah i bought a lyr i can,t wait!!!
   
  on the day it gets here its gonna get hooked up and it won,t be turned off for about 8 hours!!! for me 8 hours is alot but i think i got to wait untill it hits about 20 hours untill i invite my bro around with his gear and just get some compairing going on..........
   
  i will let you know how that goes 
   
  so yeah i can,t wait to get my hands on the goodies. 
   
  its kind of like treating myself but also the 650s and the grado sr225is.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> so i did it ''a man has become a boy''.
> 
> yeah i bought a lyr i can,t wait!!!
> 
> ...


 
  Shoot for 50, and just so you know, men have always been boys, it's that their toys become more expensive.


----------



## shaunybaby

Quote: 





rope said:


> Shoot for 50, and just so you know, men have always been boys, it's that their toys become more expensive.


 

 yeah they really do just become more expensive and then schitt has just brought out the new dac bitfrost as well so thats next on the list 
  
  and 50 ok will do


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Didn't know dt990 and lyr made good combo, glad to hear... now k702 i wonder how they sound with lyr....


 

 I think the K702 sounds just fine with the Lyr.


----------



## Rope

Dunno bout the 702's
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, but the Lyr not only sets the bottom-end of the 701's on fire, the mids and top-end are stellar.


----------



## Kremer930

I listened to my 702's with the Lyr and it wakens them in a big way. They still retain all of the wonderful detail and air but they also finally get some low end energy. If I didn't have the HE6 then the Lyr and 702's would have been heaven.


----------



## leesure

No chatter about the Bifrost yet?
   
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7


----------



## MrScary

leesure said:


> No chatter about the Bifrost yet?
> 
> http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=7




Yeah on the right thread
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545842/schiit-dac-the-information-and-anticipation-thread/345#post_7579724


----------



## Maxvla

Anyone tried the Lyr on low impedance high sensitivity headphones such as IEMs? Curious if the background is black with that combination of specs. I didn't think the Lyr would be a good match, but I was reading the blurb on the site again and they mention it's great for low impedance headphones.


----------



## tkteo

I do plug in 32 Ohms Grado/Alessandro Music Series headphones into the Lyr, but there is a hum due to the power (and high gain?) of the Lyr.
   
  So I ordered and use impedance adapters, which very effectively eliminate this hum and also allow me to use a greater range of the volume control.
   
  I also need to emphasize that the hum does not mean that the Lyr is faulty. It is just much more powerful than the Asgard.


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Anyone tried the Lyr on low impedance high sensitivity headphones such as IEMs? Curious if the background is black with that combination of specs. I didn't think the Lyr would be a good match, but I was reading the blurb on the site again and they mention it's great for low impedance headphones.


 

 The Lyr would definitely not be my amp of choice with a low impedance, high-sensitivity headphone.  With higher impedance headphones (like the 600-ohm Beyers or 300-ohm Sennheisers), or with lower sensitivity headphones (like the orthos, or the K701/2), the background noise of the Lyr is almost inaudible, and it certainly becomes inaudible when music is playing.  However, I never used the Lyr with my Denon D7000 -- the background noise was a little too present for my taste.  I much prefer the low impedance, high sensitivity headphones with a solid state amp, just for the low noise floor.
   
  I imagine IEMs could only be worse than the D7000 -- never tried a pair with my Lyr, though.
   
  And ditto with the above comments on the Lyr + K701 combo.  The K701 really sounds great from the Lyr, better than with any other amp I've heard them.


----------



## Maxvla

Thanks Soph, maybe Jason and company will make me a tubed amp for low impedance, high sensitivity phones some day. Maybe I'll order an Asgard to ship with my Bifrost to give it a try. I wouldn't mind selling off this pricey WA6 w/274b if the Asgard worked. At the time Jason couldn't guarantee it with the Asgard, so I decided against.


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Thanks Soph, maybe Jason and company will make me a tubed amp for low impedance, high sensitivity phones some day. Maybe I'll order an Asgard to ship with my Bifrost to give it a try. I wouldn't mind selling off this pricey WA6 w/274b if the Asgard worked. At the time Jason couldn't guarantee it with the Asgard, so I decided against.


 

 The Asgard may be an excellent choice for your low impedance, high sensitivity 'phones.  I currently have all three Schiit amps, and I think the Asgard is the best of the three when used with Denons, Grados, and the like.  The Asgard has a dead-silent background -- I can't detect any noise at all, unless I crank the volume knob all the way up.


----------



## Yuceka

This article may answer some of those questions:  http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/


----------



## MacedonianHero

sophonax said:


> The Lyr would definitely not be my amp of choice with a low impedance, high-sensitivity headphone.  With higher impedance headphones (like the 600-ohm Beyers or 300-ohm Sennheisers), or with lower sensitivity headphones (like the orthos, or the K701/2), the background noise of the Lyr is almost inaudible, and it certainly becomes inaudible when music is playing.  However, I never used the Lyr with my Denon D7000 -- the background noise was a little too present for my taste.  I much prefer the low impedance, high sensitivity headphones with a solid state amp, just for the low noise floor.
> 
> I imagine IEMs could only be worse than the D7000 -- never tried a pair with my Lyr, though.
> 
> And ditto with the above comments on the Lyr + K701 combo.  The K701 really sounds great from the Lyr, better than with any other amp I've heard them.




^^^ What he said x2.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





maxvla said:


> Anyone tried the Lyr on low impedance high sensitivity headphones such as IEMs? Curious if the background is black with that combination of specs. I didn't think the Lyr would be a good match, but I was reading the blurb on the site again and they mention it's great for low impedance headphones.


 

 I'm using the 25-Ohm AH-DM5000's with the Lyr, wouldn't change a thing.


----------



## Misterrogers

I use my modified D2000s with Lyr. They sound great. Lyrs dynamics play well with these 25 Ohm cans.


----------



## MacedonianHero

rope said:


> I'm using the 25-Ohm AH-DM5000's with the Lyr, wouldn't change a thing.






misterrogers said:


> I use my modified D2000s with Lyr. They sound great. Lyrs dynamics play well with these 25 Ohm cans.




And one pair of D7000's with blown drivers and 2 pairs of Ed. 8s.....still too risky for me.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> And one pair of D7000's with blown drivers and 2 pairs of Ed. 8s.....still too risky for me.


 

 Guess I need to increase the volume setting on my Lyr.


----------



## leesure

Just don't turn the amp on or off with the cans plugged in...not all that difficult.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Just don't turn the amp on or off with the cans plugged in...not all that difficult.


 
   
  Except when there's a power outage.  Better put a battery backup on it then...


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Just don't turn the amp on or off with the cans plugged in...not all that difficult.


 

 It the Woo thread, it's considered good practice to have a headphone plugged in to the amp before powering up, as damage can occur if no load is present.


----------



## caracara08

how about if you turn off the music, turn down the volume and switch headphones after its all warmed up and been going for a while?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





grokit said:


> It the Woo thread, it's considered good practice to have a headphone plugged in to the amp before powering up, as damage can occur if no load is present.


 

 Damage to the output transformers.  Which the Lyr doesn't have...


----------



## grokit

Some of the Woos are OTL, and the recommended practice doesn't differentiate that I have read there. So you can see that there are mixed messages regarding this in our hobby.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





grokit said:


> Some of the Woos are OTL, and the recommended practice doesn't differentiate that I have read there. So you can see that there are mixed messages regarding this in our hobby.


 

 Unless I'm missing something pretty big, that doesn't make any sense at all...


----------



## grokit

From the WA2 (OTL) owners manual:
   
  "Turning the amplifier on:
 1.    Turn the volume knob to the lowest position.
  2.    Insert a headphone into phone jack 1.
  3.    Press the power switch 4 to a locking position. The LED will light."


----------



## maverickronin

Did that just get copied and pasted or something?


----------



## grokit

http://www.wooaudio.com/manuals/WA2_Owners_Manual.pdf


----------



## maverickronin

I meant was it just copied and pasted from the manuals for the TC amps into the OTL amps.


----------



## grokit

I don't know, maybe you should correct Woo Audio on their instructions.


----------



## maverickronin

That would just be waste of their time since I don't actually own anything they've made.


----------



## grokit

It may have more to do with the Lyr's hybrid circuitry than anything to do whether there's an output transformer or not, I couldn't tell you really. Also the Woos have a soft start circuit, that could be a factor in their "philosophy of powering up".


----------



## Viper2005

Jason, can you give us an estimate as to when the next batch of Lyrs will be ready to ship?  I'm eagerly anticipating mine


----------



## shaunybaby

Quote: 





viper2005 said:


> Jason, can you give us an estimate as to when the next batch of Lyrs will be ready to ship?  I'm eagerly anticipating mine


 


  x2?


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> x2?


 


  x3 Purchasing my first "tube" amp


----------



## Jason Stoddard

We've been delayed a bit by the metalwork, but we are on track to ship early next week.
   
  (And, I know I've said this before, but supply should be good from then on . . . only this time it really should be good from then on . . .)


----------



## shaunybaby

my media monkey went weird on me of late and decided it won,t play any music so i thought i was going to have to rerip all my music again onto media monkey but i decided to reinstailing it again and it was fixed.
   
  this kind of thing happening just as i place an order for a new amp....... pain in the bum
   
  really am looking forward to see how the amp is and see what it can do


----------



## strannik

Great, thanks for the update, I was also wondering and in queue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





jason stoddard said:


> We've been delayed a bit by the metalwork, but we are on track to ship early next week.
> 
> (And, I know I've said this before, but supply should be good from then on . . . only this time it really should be good from then on . . .)


----------



## Viper2005

jason stoddard said:


> We've been delayed a bit by the metalwork, but we are on track to ship early next week.
> 
> (And, I know I've said this before, but supply should be good from then on . . . only this time it really should be good from then on . . .)




Thanks for the update Jason! Can't wait for my Lyr to arrive!


----------



## grokit

Quote: 





			
				Jason Stoddard said:
			
		

> We've been delayed a bit by the *metalwork*, but we are on track to ship early next week.
> 
> (And, I know I've said this before, but supply should be good from then on . . . only this time it really should be good from then on . . .)


 
   
  Could this be the long-awaited chamferred metal revision, or something similar to facilitate easier tube rolling?


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Nope, just delays.


----------



## mhamel

Jason,
   
  Any thoughts on using a pair of socket savers in the Lyr to facilitate easier tube rolling?   If not long-term, than short-term until someone settles on a pair of tubes they want to use for a while.  It raises the tubes up around an inch and makes it very simple to swap them.
   
  Thanks,
    -Mike


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mhamel said:


> Jason,
> 
> Any thoughts on using a pair of socket savers in the Lyr to *facilitate easier tube rolling*?   If not long-term, than short-term until someone settles on a pair of tubes they want to use for a while.  It raises the tubes up around an inch and makes it very simple to swap them.
> 
> ...


 


Electro Hamonix Tube Glove


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Electro Hamonix Tube Glove




I second the tube glove get them out in 1 second flat.


----------



## .Sup

Would it be hard (and possible) to have 2 inputs instead of 1 input/1 output, Jason?


----------



## mhamel

Yep, I have a tube glove.  The tape trick also works well.
   
  It was more a general question. 
   
     -Mike


----------



## ocswing

Well, I finally got my Lyr and have been happily been listening to it since yesterday. Paired with the K701s I'm very happy. A couple observations: the difference in sound from when it's first turned on to when it's warmed up surprised me. I knew there would be some difference, but it was more than I was expecting. The other is the GE tubes vs. the stock JJs and how they do sound better. It's my first experience with a tube amp and while I wouldn't say it's a huge difference, (my ear isn't really tuned for this stuff yet) it is very noticable. More bass, more lively, much better soundstage and air. Now I just need to get some DT990s and I'll be set for a little while.


----------



## WNBC

Yeah, I get the fuzzies after leaving my amp on all night and doing a little listening before work.   Good stuff, warm up may be as important as burn-in.
  
  Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Well, I finally got my Lyr and have been happily been listening to it since yesterday. Paired with the K701s I'm very happy. A couple observations: the difference in sound from when it's first turned on to when it's warmed up surprised me. I knew there would be some difference, but it was more than I was expecting. The other is the GE tubes vs. the stock JJs and how they do sound better. It's my first experience with a tube amp and while I wouldn't say it's a huge difference, (my ear isn't really tuned for this stuff yet) it is very noticable. More bass, more lively, much better soundstage and air. Now I just need to get some DT990s and I'll be set for a little while.


----------



## ZorgDK

I'm not sure if it's real or not but I've also experienced that the music sort of flows better when the amp has been on for several hours.


----------



## strannik

Congrats on the amp! When did yours ship? I thought Schiit was still in backlog.
   
  And yes, tubes need some time to warm up to sound their best. 
   

  
  Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Well, I finally got my Lyr and have been happily been listening to it since yesterday. Paired with the K701s I'm very happy. A couple observations: the difference in sound from when it's first turned on to when it's warmed up surprised me. I knew there would be some difference, but it was more than I was expecting. The other is the GE tubes vs. the stock JJs and how they do sound better. It's my first experience with a tube amp and while I wouldn't say it's a huge difference, (my ear isn't really tuned for this stuff yet) it is very noticable. More bass, more lively, much better soundstage and air. Now I just need to get some DT990s and I'll be set for a little while.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Congrats on the amp! When did yours ship? I thought Schiit was still in backlog.
> 
> And yes, tubes need some time to warm up to sound their best.


 

 I actually purchased it used from another member on the FS forums. I got paid and was all set to place an order from Schiit, but I thought I would check the ads just in case. Turned out to be a good idea.


----------



## obazavil

Jason told me they will ship this week  (I finally ordered mine)


----------



## pockits

God hear you.. I NEED IT.!!!


----------



## Rope

All tube oriented gear should be brought to normal operating temperature before auditioning.  Tubes, being electro-mechanical in nature, will continue to change sonically until the cathode ceases to emit electrons, which will vary depending on the tubes.
   
  I turn my Lyr on 1/2 hour before listening, including the HFs connected with signal, then it's time to zone out.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





rope said:


> All tube oriented gear should be brought to normal operating temperature before auditioning.  Tubes, being electro-mechanical in nature, will continue to change sonically until the cathode ceases to emit electrons, which will vary depending on the tubes.
> 
> I turn my Lyr on 1/2 hour before listening, including the HFs connected with signal, then it's time to zone out.


 
  I agree. I find that 1/2 to 1 hour works best for me for warmup of tube equipment. I know that Dennis, who used to own Cary Audio liked to have the speakers going as well for about an hour before any serious listening.


----------



## Yuceka

Half an hour?  Can it be called the amplifier foreplay?


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





yuceka said:


> Half an hour?  Can it be called the amplifier foreplay?


 

 Nope, tube prOn.


----------



## xxhaxx

I was wondering if you can use the schiit lyr with iem such as triplefi10 without destroying it? 
  I'm guessing you can, if you plug it in with the volume at minimum


----------



## Kremer930

You can use TF10 and they sound very dynamic but keep the volume well down.  There is also a low level hum when zero volume.
   
  Fun to try but not a recommended pairing.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> You can use TF10 and they sound very dynamic but keep the volume well down.  There is also a low level hum when zero volume.
> 
> Fun to try but not a recommended pairing.


 

 Thanks


----------



## tkteo

Get an impedance adapter. I use it for all my 32 Ohms Alessandro/Grado headphones.


----------



## milosolo

Has anyone received their backordered Lyr yet? I'm REALLY trying to be patient but the wait is EXCRUCIATING!


----------



## strannik

They are only starting to ship them out today. I have yet to receive any updates, ordered mine late June.
  
  Quote: 





milosolo said:


> Has anyone received their backordered Lyr yet? I'm REALLY trying to be patient but the wait is EXCRUCIATING!


----------



## pockits

Finally I got the message!!!!!!!!!!!!! it has been shipped!!


----------



## Viper2005

Woot I got my shipping notice today too!!


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





viper2005 said:


> Woot I got my shipping notice today too!!


 
  I am still waiting....
   
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Get an impedance adapter. I use it for all my 32 Ohms Alessandro/Grado headphones.


 

 Would an airplane sound attenuator work?


----------



## shaunybaby

my schitt has been shipped. 
   
  I,m hoping that it could be here within the week, can,t wait to get my hands on it


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> my schitt has been shipped.
> 
> I,m hoping that it could be here within the week, can,t wait to get my hands on it


 

 Same here


----------



## shaunybaby

I have seen a few rigs around here using the lcd-2 and the Lyr paired, i want to upgrade my can after getting my new amp and was wondering if anyone has heard these paired or know a review? (possible link please)
   
  (sorry if this has been has before)


----------



## xxhaxx

Here you go :]
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/545805/schiit-audio-lyr-my-first-impressions
   
  If you search the thread for LCD-2 you might find some comment about the lcd-2 and lyr pairing


----------



## shaunybaby

WOAH!
   
  what a link you just gave me there i haven,t come arcross that review for the lyr and if some body hasn,t read it then its a must!
   
  after checking the the schitt site and finding that my amp is on its way then to read such a great review on it i now think that my money is well spent, and the thing is that he was using stock tubes and people around here have been sayying what great things the lyr can do with the right tubes.
   
  thanks for the link really thanks!


----------



## xxhaxx

Now you must go through a bajillion post at
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1425#post_7616853
  to find out which tube you want


----------



## livewire

I dont know if I can do a bajillion..................a bazillion maybe.


----------



## HK_sends

Try the last couple hundred thousand...we have the choices narrowed some. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Try the last couple hundred thousand...we have the choices narrowed some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sadly some of the best tubes are very rare and hard to find and/or very expensive.


----------



## adydula

My Lyr has shipped should be here this Friday, cant wait to try with the LCD2's..
   




   
  Alex


----------



## xxhaxx

My Lyr has been delivered but I am currently on Campus


----------



## obazavil

Heh...
   
  My lyr will be delivered on Thursday, but until next Monday I will see the friend that will bring them from USA :'(


----------



## WNBC

You will be very happy with the combo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Which DAC are you using?
  
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> My Lyr has shipped should be here this Friday, cant wait to try with the LCD2's..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## xxhaxx

My Schiit has arrived


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> My Lyr has been delivered but I am currently on Campus


 

 What are you doing on campus when something this important transpires?  Where are your priorities?
  
  Call in sick, or better yet, dead.  Reevaluate your priorities and get them set straight!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





livewire said:


> I dont know if I can do a bajillion..................a bazillion maybe.


 


 Property terminology would be Gazillion.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





rope said:


> Call in sick, or better yet, dead.  Reevaluate your priorities and get them set straight!


 

 LOL
   
  ... dead... hahaha


----------



## Rope

Notice, since receiving his Schiit, xxhaxx has not surfaced for air.  And you were on campus when it was delivered, pfffffftttt.  Live and learn.


----------



## 4nradio

New Schiit in the house! My backordered Lyr arrived today, and what a beauty it is. The build quality is superb for the cost, and the sound even with new, yet-to-be-burned-in tubes is very, very nice. I haven't tried the stock E88CC tubes I optioned, but I'm using NOS Amperex orange globe logo (Holland) 6922s with the A-frame getter (purchased from Benjamin_6264). The burn-in cycle has begun...
   
  I bought the Lyr to use with my DIY T50rp driver'd orthos and this amp is just what the these headphones need.
   
  I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but the Schiit manual with the Lyr is a real crackup... a very funny read, and in the same tone as their web site.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





4nradio said:


> New Schiit in the house! My backordered Lyr arrived today, and what a beauty it is. The build quality is superb for the cost, and the sound even with new, yet-to-be-burned-in tubes is very, very nice. I haven't tried the stock E88CC tubes I optioned, but I'm using NOS Amperex orange globe logo (Holland) 6922s with the A-frame getter (purchased from Benjamin_6264). The burn-in cycle has begun...
> 
> I bought the Lyr to use with my DIY T50rp driver'd orthos and this amp is just what the these headphones need.
> 
> I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but the Schiit manual with the Lyr is a real crackup... a very funny read, and in the same tone as their web site.


 

 LIST:

 One
 LYR Headphone Amplifier

 One
 Set of Tubes
 (2 X JJ ECC88)

 One
 1/8" to 1/4" Adapter
 (For smaller headphones)

 One
 1/8 to Dual RCA cord
 (for your iPod)

One
 Power Cord
 (for, like, well DUH)

 Four
 Stick-on-feet
 (for the bottom of the amplifer


----------



## adydula

Hello my Lyr should be here this friday.
   
  I am using a HRT Technologies Music Streamer ii USB DAC.
   
  I also will try a ESS Sabre ES9016 Dac in my Oppo BD83SE.
  (I can Flac to this cd player and use the intermal Sabre Dacs using Asset UPnP and DLNA via ethenet)
  Then feed the analog out to the LYR/
   
  Should be fun to try out the combos...
   
  I selected the 6BZ7's.
   
  Alex


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





rope said:


> Notice, since receiving his Schiit, xxhaxx has not surfaced for air.  And you were on campus when it was delivered, pfffffftttt.  Live and learn.


 

 I have been REBORN


----------



## olor1n

Quote: Jason Stoddard


> Hey guys,
> 
> To clear things up:
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  This was posted in this *thread*. Curious to hear from Jason if the bolded parts mean that early production Lyr units don't have this relay in place. If so, can it be determined by serial number if a unit has this fail-safe installed?
   
  I know this risk can be alleviated by not plugging in until the amp is turned on and also turning the volume right down and unplugging before turning off. Some may frown on this, but that seems an overly pedantic routine every time you want to listen and also raises questions about the longevity of the headphone jack.


----------



## jamato8

I prefer no relays and the least number of contacts in a circuit, having taken them out of gear in the past. My own preamp I built had few contacts and even the front circuit switch is a custom pure silver contact (99.9995) that I built. The IC's that come out the back are hard wired, so I agree with Jason and think it is better to just unplug your phones on turn on and off.


----------



## Kremer930

Hi Jason
   
  Will the statement amp have similar protection circuits?  I hope not.  If I wanted to compromise on sound quality I would not buy Schiit.  
   
  I am glad that I have a first generation Lyr.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> Hi Jason
> 
> Will the statement amp have similar protection circuits?  I hope not.  If I wanted to compromise on sound quality I would not buy Schiit.
> 
> I am glad that I have a first generation Lyr.




Me too I do not want any delay switches, relays or the sorts glad to have a first gen Lyr


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  I got a latest batch for myself... What's the difference in sound?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I got a latest batch for myself... What's the difference in sound?


 

 Nothing obvious, I'm sure.  That said, I'm keeping my original, non relayed amps.  I'm sure the implementation of the relay protection will be done with as little effect on sound as possible.  Probably completely inaudible for the first few years, unless your atmosphere is really polluted.  Hopefully, outgassing from the enamel on the relay coil will be the only source of atmospheric pollution to contend with.  Too bad hermetically sealed contact relays are prohibitively expensive.  Remember reed relays of yesteryear?


----------



## adydula

Just took my Lyr out of the Fedex box, been listening for 10 minutes...so far it sounds great..
  Will explore all my favorites and AB with my SOHAii DIY.
   
  Great solid build, weighs a ton, 6BZ7's, nice ceramic sockets...SOLID.
   
  Jennifer Warnes 'The Hunter" is awesome so far...
   
  Later
  Alex


----------



## obazavil

I must wait another week
   
  Lyr was delivered, but my friend will stay an extra week in USA :S
   
  Whyyyyyy goooood....


----------



## adydula

Ok so I have had almost 2 hours of listening to all sorts of stuff.

 First impression is I am selling my other amp.

 Second impression is the tube choice to me is perfect.

 I did a lot of reading as most of us do trying to get the choices down right the first
 time. Jason likes these as well as his number one choice in tubes.

 The volume control setting with these LCD2's from 8 am to 10 am is more than enough, this amp has endless power for these phones. Be careful...

 The LCD2's "come alive" with this amp. Absolutley wonderful soundstage, imaging, dynamic range.

 Chris Rea's Road to Hell, is great.
 Norah Jones is very very nice.
 LeAnn Rimes vocals are phenomenal!!
 Joe Satriani's Rubina is freaking awesome..

 The detail, punchiness is really nice, well defined, Jennifer Warnes The Hunter cd is excellent.

 Linda Ronstandt, Round Midnight double CD with Nelson Riddle...wonderful voice...

 6 Watts of power...Class A, it runs hot, not as hot as the ASGARD I had but does a better job with these cans...dont miss it at all.

 I got into such a sweet listening mode that I didnt want to take the phones off...Hearing "tonality" of things that are just more alive and noticeable now...sounds of drumsticks hittinf the drum rim, sound of "wood"..no sibilance...hand claps  so life-like etc..

 I really see NO reason for ME to roll tubes...its perfect...completly content!! and for me that is saying alot!

 The tube choice is perfect, absolutely perfect..that good...

 Life is good!!

 All the best
  Alex


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





adydula said:


> The tube choice is perfect, absolutely perfect..that good...
> 
> Life is good!!
> 
> ...


 

 What tubes are you using?


----------



## Rope

2 hours?  It's still a babe, and the tubes haven't settled.  When you reach 100 hours, the Lyr and tubes will start to reach their full potential.
   
  The GEs are good, but there are better tubes.
   
  Rope


----------



## Rebel975

I just ordered a Schiit Lyr last night. ETA is next Wednesday-ish. This will be the first dedicated amp that I will have owned. (I don't count the mixamp.)
   
  My setup will be:
   
  Xonar Essence ST > Schiit Lyr > Ultrasone PRO 2900.
  Xbox 360 > Astro Mixamp > Schiit Lyr > Ultrasone PRO 2900.
   
  I've planned on buying a HE-500, but may change my mind if the Ultrasones see a dramatic improvement with an amp.


----------



## WNBC

Life is good.
  The 6BZ7 is an excellent tube.  It wasn't offered to those of us who purchased the Lyr months ago but if it was, it may have cured a lot of tube rolling-itis.
  Because, once you start rolling it's hard to stop 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Lyr + LCD-2, not much better at this pricing point
  10am is pretty good for most music.  That's where I am most of the time, 10-12.
  Congrats, we know what you'll be doing this weekend

  
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Second impression is the tube choice to me is perfect.
> I did a lot of reading as most of us do trying to get the choices down right the first
> time. Jason likes these as well as his number one choice in tubes.
> The volume control setting with these LCD2's from 8 am to 10 am is more than enough, this amp has endless power for these phones. Be careful...
> ...


----------



## ddoyle777

I, too, just unpacked my Lyr and went straight to Bach organ.  I'm beside myself - powerful bottom end.  I actually feel like I'm listening to a real organ with the LCD-2s.  It certainly passes the goose-bump test with me.
  I wound up with the stock ECC88 tubes (should have taken the time to read the tube rolling thread, but hey, who has an extra 423 hours to spare), so I can't imagine what this will be like with better tubes.
   
  I'm looking forward to hearing some symphony and solo piano, but I can't stop playing organ works.
   
  Well Done!


----------



## strannik

Out of curiosity, which amp did you have before?
   
  From the impressions here, the Lyr gets even better with tube rolling, if you are happy with stock ones.. well daem. Funny I started tube rolling for an amp I don't even have yet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Ok so I have had almost 2 hours of listening to all sorts of stuff.
> 
> First impression is I am selling my other amp.
> 
> Second impression is the tube choice to me is perfect.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





strannik said:


> Out of curiosity, which amp did you have before?
> 
> From the impressions here, the Lyr gets even better with tube rolling, if you are happy with stock ones.. well daem. Funny I started tube rolling for an amp I don't even have yet


 


  You have to Join the Party :] Ordered tube before my Lyr arrive


----------



## adydula

I had a Schitt ASGARD and a SOHAii DIY with 12AU7A/EC82 tubes and 5963's...
   
  Both ok...but the Lyr is better to me in how it sounds with the LCD2s'..
   
  The SOHA ii is on the for sale part of this forum
   
  Alex


----------



## Rope

If you haven't bothered listening to _other_ tubes, ignorance is bliss.  Once you topple that first domino, hold on to your check book!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> If you haven't bothered listening to _other_ tubes, ignorance is bliss.  Once you topple that first domino, hold on to your check book!


 

 Easy does it man, let the guy enjoy his Lyr for a while and don't forget that the 6BZ7 is one of the best sounding tubes with the Lyr.  To my ear and with the tubes I have, the 6BZ7s sound better than the JJs, better than the Telefunkens, better than the Seimens, etc.  Sample quality varies a lot when you're dealing with used tubes, plus there's the rest of the system variables...DAC, Interconnects, etc...  Lastly, the power of suggestion and imagination, is stronger for some than others.


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





rope said:


> If you haven't bothered listening to _other_ tubes, ignorance is bliss.  Once you topple that first domino, hold on to your check book!


 


  No money = No tube


----------



## adydula

Oh Boy you guys are really funny....not to worry its my money!!
   
  I grew up with tubes up the wazooooo!!
   
  I cant count the amplifiers, transmitters, if sections, rf section, af sections I have built, aligned and tuned...probably many of then years before many of you guys were born...ok...smile now, I am on the north side of 60!!
   
  I have swapped many tubes around in several amps, with varying degrees of 'change'..comnbine this with the wide and varied source material available you would have to swap out tubes etc with different material and go crazy in doing it!
   
  What I prefer may not be what you prefer or think is better etc..thats fine...
   
  All I am saying is that the GE 6BZ7's in this Lyr are "Superb" and I can enjoy a wide range of my material immensley...
   
  I did buy several more 6BZ7's that I have matched on my tube tester..I do believe in matching as best possible...
   
  If anyone wants to send me some superior tubes to test to see what I am missing PM me...be glad to oblige!! (lol).
   
  Ok back to some more serious enjoyment!!
   
  Its the Schiit!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## olor1n

Yeah the tube spruiking is a bit much imo. It seems like an arms race for some and appears synergy with other components and even personal preferences aren't even factored by these people when someone else declares satisfaction with a "lesser" tube. There's no disputing that some tubes work better than others, but given the multitude and variance in sound, I find it suspect that many seem to flock to the same tubes but then change minds in unison.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> You have to Join the Party :] Ordered tube before my Lyr arrive


 

 +1


----------



## strannik

I don't know about that one, there is a pretty strong "ignorance is bliss" factor as someone mentioned above. You could be blissful with some ibuds, or in this context cheap russian tubes, and a lot of people are it seems. Doesn't mean we're going overboard with trying to find something better.
   
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Yeah the tube spruiking is a bit much imo. It seems like an arms race for some and appears synergy with other components and even personal preferences aren't even factored by these people when someone else declares satisfaction with a "lesser" tube.


----------



## kwkarth

Seems like everyone is THE expert in their own eyes.  Since when is a NOS GE 6BZ7 a cheap russian tube?


----------



## strannik

Just an example, he isn't listening to ibuds either 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  To expand on my point if it wasn't clear, I'll give an example. A few months before I got the LCD-2s, I was listening to my portable setup and I thought "I seriously cannot picture how anything can sound better than what I am hearing right now, these LCD2s better do something magical". And they did. 
   
  People can find comfort zones with their gear where others would be disappointed. Simple concept, no need to berate people who keep on looking.
  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Seems like everyone is THE expert in their own eyes.  Since when is a NOS GE 6BZ7 a cheap russian tube?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Another strong vote for the NOS GE 6BZ7s....wow...they sound great with the Lyr. :eek:

For $20, they stack up very well with my Genalex Gold Lions (cost $100 pair). Added bonus, a bit more gain (just as Jason mentioned). So they seem very well suited for owners looking to drive their HE-6s. I prefer these tubes to the Mullard CV2492. I'm usually around 1-2 o'clock on the volume dial, but with the 6BZ7, I'm around noon-ish. Great balanced sound...not as mid-centric as the Genalex tubes, just nicely balanced throughout the spectrum.

I like them so much, I'm scouting for a back up pair.


----------



## Rope

I done recall stating anything derogatory, regarding the 6BZ7, however I did refer to "other" tubes, not naming the "other" tube for the reason Kw states.  If you feel there's no better tube, so be it, although I agree to disagree.
   
  The only common denominator is the Lyr, so different ears, headphones, and DACs, if you're so inclined, will produce different results, some slight, others more prominent.  And again, ignorance is bliss.  If you're happy with your current tube selection, why expend more cash?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Another strong vote for the NOS GE 6BZ7s....wow...they sound great with the Lyr.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mullards seem to be all the craze in the tube rolling thread. Wonder if others have tried the well regarded Amperex tubes outlined *here*. I've found A-frame Orange Globes to have amazing synergy with the HD650. They're very good with the LCD-2 (the best out of the Bugle Boy, Cryoset 6N23P and RCA black plates I have) but are a tad less engaging when compared to the inexplicable magic they seem to weave with the Senns. I'm sceptical the Mullards would have the same synergy.


----------



## MacedonianHero

olor1n said:


> Mullards seem to be all the craze in the tube rolling thread. Wonder if others have tried the well regarded Amperex tubes outlined *here*. I've found A-frame Orange Globes to have amazing synergy with the HD650. They're very good with the LCD-2 (the best out of the Bugle Boy, Cryoset 6N23P and RCA black plates I have) but are a tad less engaging.




I do like the Bugle Boys...but preferred the Mullards and Gold Lions....but man, these NOS GE tubes (6BZ7) are something. With only 2 hours on them, they are incredible with my HE-6s.


----------



## olor1n

I find the Orange Globes I have in place at the moment to be similar in signature to the Bugle Boys but with more air, bass definition and better resolution. The link I posted describes what I hear from these two tubes perfectly.
   
  How would you describe the GE against the Bugle Boys MH (particularly with the LCD-2)?


----------



## MacedonianHero

olor1n said:


> I find the Orange Globes I have in place at the moment to be similar in signature to the Bugle Boys but with more air, bass definition and better resolution. The link I posted describes what I hear from these two tubes perfectly.
> 
> How would you describe the GE against the Bugle Boys MH?




Very similar...but with slightly more dynamics and attack. Again, to be fair, my tubes only have a few hours on them. I'll wait until I get about 50 or so hours on them to make a better call.


----------



## MrScary

macedonianhero said:


> I do like the Bugle Boys...but preferred the Mullards and Gold Lions....but man, these NOS GE tubes (6BZ7) are something. With only 2 hours on them, they are incredible with my HE-6s.




There are many mullards and derivatives which mullards are you talking about?


----------



## MacedonianHero

mrscary said:


> There are many mullards and derivatives which mullards are you talking about?




CV2492s...it's in my previous post.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I do like the Bugle Boys...but preferred the Mullards and Gold Lions....but man, these NOS GE tubes (6BZ7) are something. With only 2 hours on them, they are incredible with my HE-6s.


 

 Interesting. I take it these GE 6BZ7 tubes are distinct from the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass? I wonder if my RCA 6BQ7A are similar. Your findings (as well as kwkarth) hold more weight than the machine gun rate at which members change their preferences in the tube rolling thread. I'll look into the GE's.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> I done recall stating anything derogatory, regarding the 6BZ7, however I did refer to "other" tubes, not naming the "other" tube for the reason Kw states.  If you feel there's no better tube, so be it, although I agree to disagree.
> 
> The only common denominator is the Lyr, so different ears, headphones, and DACs, if you're so inclined, will produce different results, some slight, others more prominent.  And again, ignorance is bliss.  If you're happy with your current tube selection, why expend more cash?


 
  Naw, I was just saying, let's give the man a little peace and let him enjoy his new amp.  With the tubes he's starting with, it will be a long time before he looks for something else.


----------



## MacedonianHero

olor1n said:


> Interesting. I take it these GE 6BZ7 tubes are distinct from the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass? I wonder if my RCA 6BQ7A are similar. Your findings (as well as kwkarth) hold more weight than the machine gun rate at which members change their preferences in the tube rolling thread. I'll look into the GE's.




http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/1380#post_7607045


----------



## MrScary

olor1n said:


> Interesting. I take it these GE 6BZ7 tubes are distinct from the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass? I wonder if my RCA 6BQ7A are similar. Your findings (as well as kwkarth) hold more weight than the machine gun rate at which members change their preferences in the tube rolling thread. I'll look into the GE's.




Yes the GE smoked glass are totally different tubes than the GE 6BZ7. The smoked glass have a very laid back sound to them they are great tubes for someone that has a brightness in their audio chain they are trying to tame.


----------



## olor1n

I'm convinced my rev.2 has changed for the better over the last week, so I'll wait for it to settle before I try to narrow down what isn't quite right (if it's still apparent with more burn in). What I hear now is mostly fantastic but there's just something I can't pinpoint gnawing at me.


----------



## adydula

I was out of the audio hobby for awhile....and when I returned I was absolutely shocked to see what people are doing with tubes and their search for the 'holy grail' ...OMG
   
  The mystic and prices for these tubes that we bought for a few bucks for at the corner drugstore way back when absolutley amaze me still. We used to HATE tubes, they get hot, noisy, microphonic, used high voltages, more heat, etc...and now a whole new generation worships these valves with a passion that is boarding ridiculus...they are just freaking tubes....(BIG SMILE).
   
  I really wonder how many of us really could tell the difference in these tubes by blind AB testing....no emotion just  real listening tests....but this has been discussed so, so many times and argued ad naseum. Most tubes in the same family that are operating in their linear portion porbably are the same sonically, but its more glamorus to speak of orange tops, oval getters, the rare Mullards from heaven... things most of us dont even have a clue on how they operate....I used to sit in class drawing manual load lines for tube circuits...boring!!..
   
  If you try or run tubes near or outside of their comfort zone...then the distortion etc can be very detrimental....but if they are matched closely and in the same family I doubt many of us would really be able to identify a JJ Tesla from a EH from a "whatever"..but our human minds will think they can!! The circuits these tubes are inserted have more of an affect on how they operate than the tube itself...oh gee theres a great discussion...
   
  Dont need to rain on anyones parade after all I sold my SS amp for this Tube amp...main reason to tell you the truth was for the 6 watts!!!
   
  Wonder is NOS means New Old Stock or Nasty Old Stock or Nasty Old Schiit!!
   
  Anyhow the end result so far is the Lyr with the 6BZ7's are sparkling and isnt that what its all about....
   
  LIfe is good!
   
  Alex


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Interesting. I take it these GE 6BZ7 tubes are distinct from the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass? I wonder if my RCA 6BQ7A are similar. Your findings (as well as kwkarth) hold more weight than the machine gun rate at which members change their preferences in the tube rolling thread. I'll look into the GE's.


 

 I prefer the GE 6BZ7s over the RCA 6BQ7A black plates.  If you're interested, I'd be more than happy to ship you the RCAs, though, I may be among the "machine gun" rollers that you hold little value in their opinion.


----------



## olor1n

I apologize if my tone seemed derogatory. I just feel there's too much hyperbole in that thread and it's ripe with statements that may sweep the unsuspecting away. Those that take time to assess qualities and impart findings that seem more restrained will always draw my attention.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





adydula said:


> I really wonder how many of us really could tell the difference in these tubes by blind AB testing....no emotion just  real listening tests....but this has been discussed so, so many times and argued ad naseum. Most tubes in the same family that are operating in their linear portion porbably are the same sonically, but its more glamorus to speak of orange tops, oval getters, the rare Mullards from heaven... things most of us dont even have a clue on how they operate....I used to sit in class drawing manual load lines for tube circuits...boring!!..
> 
> If you try or run tubes near or outside of their comfort zone...then the distortion etc can be very detrimental....but if they are matched closely and in the same family I doubt many of us would really be able to identify a JJ Tesla from a EH from a "whatever"..but our human minds will think they can!! The circuits these tubes are inserted have more of an affect on how they operate than the tube itself...oh gee theres a great discussion...


 


  The differences between the handful of tubes I have are too _distinct_ to warrant blind AB testing. I trust my ears in this instance.


----------



## WNBC

I don't know if I could tell the difference within the same class but I can definitely hear a difference between the different classes.  This difference is what makes it fun to roll and try new tubes.  This experience is new for the younger generation.  Most of my friends will never roll tubes.  Maybe soon nobody will be rolling tubes.  The novelty does run its course and my purchases are done but I enjoyed the 3 months trying different brands and manufacturers.  The differences are subtle for the ones I can afford but real nonetheless.  The tubes sound good in the Lyr.  I can't imagine these tubes were so expensive when they were plentiful but those stocks are dwindling and the price adjusted to demand.  Now, if you have a stash of Siemens CCa that you HATE we'll gladly take these terrible tubes off your hands 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  
  
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> I was out of the audio hobby for awhile....and when I returned I was absolutely shocked to see what people are doing with tubes and their search for the 'holy grail' ...OMG
> 
> The mystic and prices for these tubes that we bought for a few bucks for at the corner drugstore way back when absolutley amaze me still. We used to HATE tubes, they get hot, noisy, microphonic, used high voltages, more heat, etc...and now a whole new generation worships these valves with a passion that is boarding ridiculus...they are just freaking tubes....(BIG SMILE).
> 
> ...


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





adydula said:


> I was out of the audio hobby for awhile....and when I returned I was absolutely shocked to see what people are doing with tubes and their search for the 'holy grail' ...OMG
> 
> The mystic and prices for these tubes that we bought for a few bucks for at the corner drugstore way back when absolutley amaze me still. We used to HATE tubes, they get hot, noisy, microphonic, used high voltages, more heat, etc...and now a whole new generation worships these valves with a passion that is boarding ridiculus...they are just freaking tubes....(BIG SMILE).
> 
> ...


 



 Tube rolling is an art form finding the right tube that fits your audio chain.. Yes tubes sound different if you are happy with what came with the :Lyr then good for you but some of us are after much more..


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Interesting. I take it these GE 6BZ7 tubes are distinct from the GE 6DJ8 smoked glass? I wonder if my RCA 6BQ7A are similar. Your findings (as well as kwkarth) hold more weight than the machine gun rate at which members change their preferences in the tube rolling thread. I'll look into the GE's.


 
  Well, having shotgunned 36+ sets of tubes so far (including the GE 6BZ7 and 6DJ8 Smoked Glass), then pairing those down, I am slowly refining my taste in tube sound.  For example, I find the RCA 6BZ7s sound (to me) better than the GE 6BZ7s.  However, I won't discount the GE's either because they are fairly inexpensive and readily available.  You get a lot of good sound for a great price.  They just aren't my cup of tea.
  As for hyperbole (at least as far as I am concerned), it's usually because a set of tube reveals a new aspect of sound that other tubes I tried hadn't.  Plus, the adulation is for the tubes in and of themselves, not compared with others.  Now I am deciding what sound I like out of all these choices and it's where the hyperbole ends.  Now it's time to decide what to keep and what ends up for sale.
  All this, of course, is IMHO and YMMV. 
   
       Quote:


wnbc said:


> I don't know if I could tell the difference within the same class but I can definitely hear a difference between the different classes.  This difference is what makes it fun to roll and try new tubes.  This experience is new for the younger generation.  Most of my friends will never roll tubes.  Maybe soon nobody will be rolling tubes.  The novelty does run its course and my purchases are done but I enjoyed the 3 months trying different brands and manufacturers.  The differences are subtle for the ones I can afford but real nonetheless.  The tubes sound good in the Lyr.  I can't imagine these tubes were so expensive when they were plentiful but those stocks are dwindling and the price adjusted to demand.  Now, if you have a stash of Siemens CCa that you HATE we'll gladly take these terrible tubes off your hands
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  As I have listened to several brands of the same class, I think you actually can tell a difference between manufacturers as well.  For example, as I mentioned above, I like RCA marked 6BZ7s a lot more than the GE 6BZ7.
  But I'll be happy to take the Siemen's CCa's as well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Kremer930

It is interesting how people find different tubes complimenting their audio chains. I haven't heard the GE's but I do have the RCA and Sylvanian 6BZ7's. I initially thought that the GE's must sound nicer than the RCA and Sylvania tubes as I am not really a fan of their sound but then reading that HK likes the RCA brand better I am guessing that perhaps the 6BZ7 just don't suit my rig as well as my Amperex ECC88 or even my Sovtek 6N1p's. 

This seems to suggest that people should try the different brands to see how they work with their own audio chains.


----------



## adydula

Sitting here drinking a great cup of Peets Coffee, listening to Bill Withers....very nice,mellow, sweet recording...
   
  Great comments on the quest for audio valve perfection...its cool...just saying its really funny to me...cant fault anyone trying to get the best out of their audio chain...Doing AB testing or AB listening having someone else do the changes and not telling me what they are doing allows me not to let my unscientific emotions get in the way....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Understanding the operatating ranges, voltages etc the circuits they get pluged into helps picking out tubes that would operate with more distortion etc..from the get go..there are some examples of this in the previous link that Jason S indicated.
   
  I have a stash of tubes but they are going into my "will" as an future investment for my kids that will ues or sell them to generation XYZ" ....
  Some of these valves are like GOLD!! (lol)..
   
  No harm intended to anyone messing with tubes and if you really find what you really believe is a tube that you would sell the farm for please let me know...I would like to see if I can hear this difference as well...can you rent tubes???? (Big Smile!)
   
  All the best...back to Bill W.
   
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> It is interesting how people find different tubes complimenting their audio chains. I haven't heard the GE's but I do have the RCA and Sylvanian 6BZ7's. I initially thought that the GE's must sound nicer than the RCA and Sylvania tubes as I am not really a fan of their sound but then reading that HK likes the RCA brand better I am guessing that perhaps the 6BZ7 just don't suit my rig as well as my Amperex ECC88 or even my Sovtek 6N1p's.
> 
> This seems to suggest that people should try the different brands to see how they work with their own audio chains.


 
  I like the ECC88s better with my system than the 6BZ7s.  I have several brands of ECC88 including Mullard, Siemens, and Telefunken and am finding their sound to be most enjoyable.
  However, out of the 6BZ7s, I like RCA's the best.
   
  I would encourage you to try different brands as well as different classes.  Does anyone have some CCa's I can borrow? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




  -HK sends


----------



## Misterrogers

Let's mug MrScary for his S&H Ccas. Did I say that out loud?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Let's mug MrScary for his S&H Ccas. Did I say that out loud?


 


  hahahahaha I have them guarded


----------



## WNBC

Peets Coffee, good stuff!
   
  No doubt tubes are overpriced.  Look at all the vintage gear out there, there's a demand and market willing to pay.  Same for tubes, same for cars, same for baseball cards (maybe not anymore), coins, paintings, etc.  Nobody is selling the farm.  People are just spending a little extra hobby cash for some tubes.  Not a big deal.  Some people have spent more than others.  There is a bit of hype but hey we're trying to make tube talk exciting.  It's nature, we will find ways to support our purchases.  It's like one's favorite sports team or player.  Ken Griffey isn't a god, but he's talked about as one out here.  There will always be people who will remind us we overpaid or the hype factor is off the charts.  People feel all warm and smug in doing so.  We know the tubes are overpriced and we're talking them up a bit more than you would like.    
   
  MrScary, send adydula your Siemens CCa and I'll send him my Gold Lions.  We'll see if he can hear a difference 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Whether or not the CCa are worth $200-$400, well that's for people with the cash to decide for themselves.
   
  The Lyr is a fantastic amp and we can change the sound a smidge with various tubes.  Just a little fine tuning.  A slight bump in the bass, or forwardness in the mids, or a bit more air.  Now if this is all in our head then I'm open to hearing the technical reasons.  
   
  Come on over to the rolling thread, while there may be a bit of hype, there is little technical talk and we could always use opinions on distortions, etc.  Also, maybe give us an idea of what these tubes originally cost and the mark up today.  I would find that very useful.  Like the Siemens CCa, in the 1960s-70s were they just considered very good, a $10 tube vs a Bugle Boy, a $2 tube.  The history would be welcomed on the rolling thread.
   
  Enuff tube talk, it's supposed to on the tube thread, last time we got nailed for all of this tube love and hate
   
   
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Sitting here drinking a great cup of Peets Coffee, listening to Bill Withers....very nice,mellow, sweet recording...
> 
> Great comments on the quest for audio valve perfection...its cool...just saying its really funny to me...cant fault anyone trying to get the best out of their audio chain...Doing AB testing or AB listening having someone else do the changes and not telling me what they are doing allows me not to let my unscientific emotions get in the way....
> 
> ...


----------



## Rope

Any time someone mentions Bill Withers, I drop whatever I'm doing and drink a pina colada. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It's like a rule thing.
   
  *EDIT*
   
  I must've been messed up on mescaline when I wrote the above.  Not Bill Withers...Rupert Holmes.  DUH----------------------->Rope


----------



## Gradofan2

How is it with Grados, Denons and ATHs - does it drive them well... or... does it have too much power for them?


----------



## leesure

I run my SR-125's with it and it's great. As has been mentioned, just plug in *after* turning it on as the pop when it's turned on has been rumored to blow super sensitive drivers.


----------



## Rebel975

What if you just turn the volume down to 0 instead of unplugging the headphones?


----------



## Rope

Yeah, I know, sounds like wearing two condoms before having sex, but at the risk of smoking drivers on low impedance HFs, why not do both.
   
  An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


----------



## Rebel975

I'm pretty sure wearing two condoms increases the chance of a breakage... um, but anyway, I guess I'll unplug my headphones before starting up the Lyr. I definitely don't want to risk anything happening.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I'm pretty sure wearing two condoms increases the chance of a breakage... um, but anyway, I guess I'll unplug my headphones before starting up the Lyr. I definitely don't want to risk anything happening.


 

 Yeah, I unplug my headphones before turning the Lyr off and leave them unplugged until after it's been on for awhile. (You can plug them in after 20-30 sec, but I just let it warm up before using it anyway.) I'm not sure if the Lyr damages the driver when being turned off, but it does make noises on my K702 and there was another thread linked where it deformed the driver so I just leave the headphones unplugged unless I'm actually listening.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> What if you just turn the volume down to 0 instead of unplugging the headphones?


 

 do both.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I'm pretty sure wearing two condoms increases the chance of a breakage... um, but anyway, I guess I'll unplug my headphones before starting up the Lyr. I definitely don't want to risk anything happening.


 

 Why is such a simple protocol difficult for people to grasp?
   
  If the amp is already on, reduce volume to minimum, then unplug your headphones.
  If the amp is off, make sure the headphones are unplugged, reduce volume to minimum, turn the amp on.  In 20 seconds, plug in the headphones and carefully advance the volume to the desired listening level.
   
  Simple!


----------



## Rebel975

Quote:


kwkarth said:


> Why is such a simple protocol difficult for people to grasp?
> 
> 
> Simple!


 
   
   
   
   
  Where I grasped it:
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I guess I'll unplug my headphones before starting up the Lyr. I definitely don't want to risk anything happening.


 
   
   
  3 comments ago. Thanks though. I've never owned a headphone amp before, and I have the Schiit Lyr on the way.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I'm pretty sure wearing two condoms increases the chance of a breakage... um, but anyway, I guess I'll unplug my headphones before starting up the Lyr. I definitely don't want to risk anything happening.


 

 Ah, but you'll have a backup.


----------



## adydula

I turn on the source, then the Lyr...volume control down....wait for a minute or so and plug in the phones...start up a song slowly turn up volume....if i dont hear anything at 8 am setting etc...I go no farther and make sure that the source is playing and all cables are intact etc...NEVER just crank it up!!! OMG....pfsssssssst!
   
  Shutting dwon, stop source music, volume all the way down, remove phones, turn off the amp...no issues...
   
  12hrs now on the amp with LCD2's and its really been a great experience!
   
  Alex


----------



## chaosallied

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Why is such a simple protocol difficult for people to grasp?
> 
> If the amp is already on, reduce volume to minimum, then unplug your headphones.
> If the amp is off, make sure the headphones are unplugged, reduce volume to minimum, turn the amp on.  In 20 seconds, plug in the headphones and carefully advance the volume to the desired listening level.
> ...


 

 Hi, is this only for low impedance cans or regardless of impedance? still waiting for my Lyr so reading about tips is very helpful =)


----------



## jamato8

Using my Siemen 6922 (1960's)  and the sound is excellent beautiful melodic yet tight bass with the LCD-2.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Where I grasped it:
> 3 comments ago. Thanks though. I've never owned a headphone amp before, and I have the Schiit Lyr on the way.


 

 I wasn't referring to you specifically,  Sorry if that came across incorrectly.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





chaosallied said:


> Hi, is this only for low impedance cans or regardless of impedance? still waiting for my Lyr so reading about tips is very helpful =)


 

 You should treat all your headphones the same.  If you don't develop consistent habits, one day you'll forget.


----------



## xxhaxx

My dt880/600 sounds 1000x better when using the lyr then the D4 Mamba


----------



## Rebel975

My Lyr began it's journey a couple hours ago. It left Stevenson Ranch, California at approximately 2:46 pm (PDT), heading for Hood River, Oregon. Delivery estimate is the 27th-1st, but with it only coming from California I'm going to assume that it'll be here Wednesday.


----------



## strannik

The Lyr has arrived. Had a chance to run it side by side with my WA6 for a few hours using the LCD-2s. For first impressions, I'm left with rather mixed emotions.
   
  Lyr produces a VERY full bodied sound, sometimes I find it a bit too heavy and prefer the polite, laid back, if not elegant sound of the WA6. Other times my WA6 just sounds wimpy in comparison to Lyr. What to do.. what to do...


----------



## MacedonianHero

strannik said:


> The Lyr has arrived. Had a chance to run it side by side with my WA6 for a few hours using the LCD-2s. For first impressions, I'm left with rather mixed emotions.
> 
> Lyr produces a VERY full bodied sound, sometimes I find it a bit too heavy and prefer the polite, laid back, if not elegant sound of the WA6. Other times my WA6 just sounds wimpy in comparison to Lyr. What to do.. what to do...




What tubes are you running? How many hours do you have on your Lyr/tubes?


----------



## strannik

Not much hours on the Lyr or tubes at all, it just arrived today. I'm not sure if Schiit burns them in before they send them out.
   
  For the Lyr I'm running with the the stock 6BZ7 and some Mullard 6DJ8s. On the WA6 with a Sophia Princess and some sylvania 6FD7s. Not sure if the tube combo gets any better for WA6, as for the Lyr, I'll have to wait and see. Go go burn in


----------



## MacedonianHero

strannik said:


> Not much hours on the Lyr or tubes at all, it just arrived today. I'm not sure if Schiit burns them in before they send them out.
> 
> For the Lyr I'm running with the the stock 6BZ7 and some Mullard 6DJ8s. On the WA6 with a Sophia Princess and some sylvania 6FD7s. Not sure if the tube combo gets any better for WA6, as for the Lyr, I'll have to wait and see. Go go burn in




I'd give the Lyr/6BZ7 tubes about 50 hours or so before any critical listening.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





strannik said:


> The Lyr has arrived. Had a chance to run it side by side with my WA6 for a few hours using the LCD-2s. For first impressions, I'm left with rather mixed emotions.
> 
> Lyr produces a VERY full bodied sound, sometimes I find it a bit too heavy and prefer the polite, laid back, if not elegant sound of the WA6. Other times my WA6 just sounds wimpy in comparison to Lyr. What to do.. what to do...


 


  Welcome to the world of tube rolling. The GE's have a full bodied sound to them. If you want a thinner sound there are many choices the Mullard E88CC gives the mids and removes the bloat there are tons of other choices
  it gets pretty expensive to start rolling tubes so I would start with a Mullard and go from there.


----------



## ddoyle777

"Lyr produces a VERY full bodied sound, sometimes I find it a bit too heavy and prefer the polite, laid back, if not elegant sound of the WA6. Other times my WA6 just sounds wimpy in comparison to Lyr. What to do.. what to do...?
   
  This is my experience to a tee!  I moved to the LCD-2s and the Lyr because I felt the HD800 and the WA6 were far too polite and gentle for Bach organ.  Now I have them sitting next to each other wondering what to do.  Bach organ is magnificent on the Lyr/SCD-2s and I wouldn't give it up willingly.  But the HD800/WA6 does piano really well.  
   
  I think what I'll do is keep both headphone and probably sell the WA6.  I know if I sell the HD800s I'll want them back at some time and that route will be far more expensive.  I think this is a glorious problem, don't you?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





ddoyle777 said:


> "Lyr produces a VERY full bodied sound, sometimes I find it a bit too heavy and prefer the polite, laid back, if not elegant sound of the WA6. Other times my WA6 just sounds wimpy in comparison to Lyr. What to do.. what to do...?
> 
> This is my experience to a tee!  I moved to the LCD-2s and the Lyr because I felt the HD800 and the WA6 were far too polite and gentle for Bach organ.  Now I have them sitting next to each other wondering what to do.  Bach organ is magnificent on the Lyr/SCD-2s and I wouldn't give it up willingly.  But the HD800/WA6 does piano really well.
> 
> I think what I'll do is keep both headphone and probably sell the WA6.  I know if I sell the HD800s I'll want them back at some time and that route will be far more expensive.  I think this is a glorious problem, don't you?


 
  If you are finding the Lyr too full bodied it is the GE tubes you will need to roll another set in until you are happy with the sound.


----------



## adydula

With my GE 6B7Z's the piano is excellent.....I have tried several different source material and they vary....but on well done stuff the piano is about as perfect as I have ever heard with headphones..tonality, harmonics etc...
   
  Alex


----------



## ddoyle777

That's good news as I have a pair of 6BZ7s in the mail.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





ddoyle777 said:


> That's good news as I have a pair of 6BZ7s in the mail.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  consider picking up a pair of RCA 6BZ7s they have more air to them then the GE's


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> If you are finding the Lyr too full bodied it is the GE tubes you will need to roll another set in until you are happy with the sound.


 


  So not all same model tubes sound the same?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





.sup said:


> So not all same model tubes sound the same?


 
  Not to may ear.  They all are potentially different.  Even same model, same brand, tubes can differ from one another depending upon condition of the given tube.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Not to may ear.  They all are potentially different.  Even same model, same brand, tubes can differ from one another depending upon condition of the given tube.


 


  Thanks for this info. Do you possibly know if tubes sent from Schiit are matched pairs?


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





.sup said:


> So not all same model tubes sound the same?


 

 No each tube has its own distinct sound


----------



## USAudio

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Thanks for this info. Do you possibly know if tubes sent from Schiit are matched pairs?


 

 Yep, they're matched:
  e.g.  "We take new-production JJ E88CC tubes and match them precisely on a modern tube curve tracer."
  http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=5
  This includes the 6BZ7s and the tubes included with your Lyr.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





usaudio said:


> Yep, they're matched:
> e.g.  "We take new-production JJ E88CC tubes and match them precisely on a modern tube curve tracer."
> http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=5
> This includes the 6BZ7s and the tubes included with your Lyr.


 
  Thanks for this info buddy!


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





.sup said:


> Thanks for this info. Do you possibly know if tubes sent from Schiit are matched pairs?


 
  According to Jason @ Schiit, they're more carefully matched by Schiit than most anywhere else as they actually match based upon the curve trace parameters of the tube, not simple emission test matching.


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> According to Jason @ Schiit, they're more carefully matched by Schiit than most anywhere else as they actually match based upon the curve trace parameters of the tube, not simple emission test matching.


 


  I am now completely reassured, thanks Kev!


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> consider picking up a pair of RCA 6BZ7s they have more air to them then the GE's


 

 Realizing the differences in every ones gear, I find just the opposite to be true.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Realizing the differences in every ones gear, I find just the opposite to be true.


 

 That had been my experience as well.  Not many absolutes in this game.


----------



## strannik

Yes, the 6BZ7 are definitely not for me.
   
  Would you say the Mullard E88CC would differ drastically from the Mullard ECC88/6DJ8? I know this isn't exactly the right thread for this, but while we're on the subject.
   
   
   
   

   
  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Welcome to the world of tube rolling. The GE's have a full bodied sound to them. If you want a thinner sound there are many choices the Mullard E88CC gives the mids and removes the bloat there are tons of other choices
> it gets pretty expensive to start rolling tubes so I would start with a Mullard and go from there.


----------



## jamato8

There are different periods when the 6BZ7 was made and different formulations so within this group, there are varying sounds as true with most all tubes.


----------



## MrScary

strannik said:


> Yes, the 6BZ7 are definitely not for me.
> 
> Would you say the Mullard E88CC would differ drastically from the Mullard ECC88/6DJ8? I know this isn't exactly the right thread for this, but while we're on the subject.




Yes they sound totally different


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> That had been my experience as well.  Not many absolutes in this game.




I will have to compare the two again maybe my airness is off hahahaha


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> I will have to compare the two again maybe my airness is off hahahaha


 
  I hear ya.  Sometimes we all need to let a little air out of our tires (tyres) to fit through the tunnel


----------



## shaunybaby

Well i ordered my amp about 3 and abit weeks ago and after backlog catch up and shipping it has got to customs and that was about five days of waiting then they send me a nice import tax letter sayying i must pay 63.65 GBP or 104.017 USD.
   
  i know this is not schiits fault and i bought the amp knowing this would happen but its been nearly a month so i forgot, just thought i should warn uk buyyers of this kind of thing, so you can put some money a side for it.


----------



## MrScary

shaunybaby said:


> Well i ordered my amp about 3 and abit weeks ago and after backlog catch up and shipping it has got to customs and that was about five days of waiting then they send me a nice import tax letter sayying i must pay 63.65 GBP or 104.017 USD.
> 
> i know this is not schiits fault and i bought the amp knowing this would happen but its been nearly a month so i forgot, just thought i should warn uk buyyers of this kind of thing, so you can put some money a side for it.




Ouch!


----------



## milosolo

I've had my new Lyr for ~1 week now and I'm pretty happy with it. It is very solidly built. It has the GE 6BZ7 tubes and a matched set of NOS Amperex Orange Globes from Benjamin6264. This amp really wakes up my HD650 and makes me say Wow! Out of the box the Orange Globes seem just slightly more recessed overall than the 6BZ7. It's subtle and I haven't decided if I prefer one more than the other. There is no comparison between the HP amp of of my Mav D1 compared to the Lyr. The D1 doesn't have the control of the bass frequencies that the Lyr has. It really isn't fair to compare the two anyway. One thing I didn't expect is how hot the Lyr runs, especially the right side of the case. It's hot enough that I've looked into aluminum heat sink solutions for the exterior case. 
   
  Ideally I'd like to find a one box solution that also includes analog inputs for my phono stage, e.g. the Mav D1, Burson HA160D, Peacthree iDecco, Benchmark DAC1, etc. I really like the HD650 and have no plans to upgrade. There is probably a compromise somewhere in a one box solution so that is a factor to consider. If I had to decide right now based purely on features and price point I'd probably go with the iDecco. I should probably start a new thread for this topic.


----------



## Misterrogers

Seriously, so worries with the heat Lyr puts out. It's class a with tubes - it's gonna run hot when it's running well.


----------



## zhunter

Its winter in Australia now, approximately 23 celcius room temperature and my Lyr is not really hot, pretty warm imo. I even can swap tubes with my bare hands without waiting for them cooling down.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Seriously, so worries with the heat Lyr puts out. It's class a with tubes - it's gonna run hot when it's running well.


----------



## Misterrogers

I hear ya - I've got 'hot rolling' down to an art. About to pop the Orange Globes out and drop in the trusty Brimar/Ediswans. Love the texture of that tube


----------



## strannik

It's not that bad I find. My Lyr runs around 38 celcius (100F) on regular operation. Room temperature 24C (75F)
   
  For a while I've had the Lyr sitting on a laptop cooler, that worked quite good at keeping the temperature down. Though the fan noise from the cooler is annoying so I stopped that.
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Seriously, so worries with the heat Lyr puts out. It's class a with tubes - it's gonna run hot when it's running well.


----------



## hjt1130

I got the Grado GS1000i, is lyr better or asgard?


----------



## .Sup

Quote: 





hjt1130 said:


> I got the Grado GS1000i, is lyr better or asgard?


 


http://www.headfonia.com/triple-schiit-asgaard-valhalla-and-lyr/
   
  but at the end each to their own


----------



## MacedonianHero

milosolo said:


> I've had my new Lyr for ~1 week now and I'm pretty happy with it. It is very solidly built. It has the GE 6BZ7 tubes and a matched set of NOS Amperex Orange Globes from Benjamin6264. This amp really wakes up my HD650 and makes me say Wow! Out of the box the Orange Globes seem just slightly more recessed overall than the 6BZ7. It's subtle and I haven't decided if I prefer one more than the other. There is no comparison between the HP amp of of my Mav D1 compared to the Lyr. The D1 doesn't have the control of the bass frequencies that the Lyr has. It really isn't fair to compare the two anyway. O*ne thing I didn't expect is how hot the Lyr runs, especially the right side of the case. It's hot enough that I've looked into aluminum heat sink solutions for the exterior case.*
> 
> Ideally I'd like to find a one box solution that also includes analog inputs for my phono stage, e.g. the Mav D1, Burson HA160D, Peacthree iDecco, Benchmark DAC1, etc. I really like the HD650 and have no plans to upgrade. There is probably a compromise somewhere in a one box solution so that is a factor to consider. If I had to decide right now based purely on features and price point I'd probably go with the iDecco. I should probably start a new thread for this topic.




You do realize that Schiit designed the amp to incorporate the metal chassis as the heatsink? It's a Class A amp...it's supposed to be hot, throw in the tubes and you can roast marshmallows. 

It's fine as is, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## adydula

Hello,
   
  I was missing the feet for my Lyr....in the original package and set it on 2 small aluminum epoxy mixing cups so it was 1'" or so off the tempered glass table it is on.
   
  It gets hot, but not as hot as my Asgard did.
   
  The room its in is heavily air conditioned, but after using the Asgard the heat from this unit is not an issue to me at all.
   
  Its got a 5 yr warranty.....
   
  Alex


----------



## shaunybaby

so its here!!
   
  i have had it on for about 10 mins and its not warm but i just have to give it some time and im sure it will become a little heater in my room.
   
  its well built and feels soild to hold, putting in the tubes was easy as cake, line up the pins and push down.
   
  I got to let it warm up and start the burn in and then im gonna start watching moives and listening to music so yeah leaving it on while i go out later, now all i got to do is get new dac or headphone or phono stage and turntable or a speaker setup, it just never ends!!


----------



## adydula

I felt exactly the same way or I mean experienced the same thing..after just 10-15 mins its not hot at all...just warm...but after a few hours its gets toasty for sure....
   
  Seems like it takes 30min or so to really sound great...this may be a psycho-acoustic phenomena ??
   
  So how does it sound to you??/
   
  What music are you listening to??
   
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

When burning it in do you just turn it on and let it run, or are you running music through it? According to FedEx my Lyr is waiting for me at my house... too bad I'm at work for 5 more hours.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> When burning it in do you just turn it on and let it run, or are you running music through it? According to FedEx my Lyr is waiting for me at my house... *too bad I'm at work for 5 more hours*.


 

 Solution, call in sick, or better yet, DEAD!  What's more important, your job, or a brand spanking new Schiit waiting at home.
  Prioritize man. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've been through this before with a student on the board.  Give um books, what do they do, eat the covers. 
   
  Congrats on the new gear, you're going to enjoy it!


----------



## USAudio

So these newer units with the delay relay ... is there an audible "click" after you turn it on after X seconds?
  How about when you turn it off, another audible click I assume?


----------



## Kremer930

Only about a month to go until the Bifrost Dacs start shipping awesome.  
   
  I only completed my Bifrost order the other day.  They have already sold over 150 units.  Should be plenty of review comments to read in early September.  
   
  To bring this comment back on track.... it is going to be a great look to have the Lyr and the Bifrost in matching chassis sitting side by side or stacked.  Sweet.  Will be one heck of a budget rig.  Compact in size but great build quality and top quality sound.


----------



## Rebel975

So, I just got my Schiit Lyr hooked up for the first time. I'll wait a few days before posting impressions, but:
   
  There seems to be a "bzzzzzzzzz" sound. The manual says that I may have a "ground loop" and to try a three prong to two prong power cord adapter. Worth a shot? I don't have one, so I'd have to order it. The "bzzzz" sound happens whether plugged straight into a wall outlet, or through a power strip.
   
  I currently have my source (Xonar Essence ST) set to 100% volume and have the Lyr on ~8:30 and the sound is pretty soft. Not really noticeable during the majority of songs, but definitely noticeable in soft passages and when there isn't any sound playing. When I put my source down to 25% and cranked up the Lyr the "bzzzz" sound was unbearable, even during loud portions of songs. But, I guess that makes sense.
   
  So, do I try the three prong to two prong adapter, or do I chalk this up to using high efficiency low impedance cans with such a beast of an amp?
   
   
  Edit: Also, should I play music, or just leave the Lyr on to burn it in?


----------



## MrScary

rebel975 said:


> So, I just got my Schiit Lyr hooked up for the first time. I'll wait a few days before posting impressions, but:
> 
> There seems to be a "bzzzzzzzzz" sound. The manual says that I may have a "ground loop" and to try a three prong to two prong power cord adapter. Worth a shot? I don't have one, so I'd have to order it. The "bzzzz" sound happens whether plugged straight into a wall outlet, or through a power strip.
> 
> ...




you should run the sonar line out to the Lyr not at 100% I hope not from the speaker output that would sound like Schiit


----------



## adydula

Rebel 975 I assume your sound card is in a desktop system.
   
  Try plugging the power cord from the PC and the Lyr in the same power receptacle
  Its possible that one of the power outlets may not be grounded properly.
  If you have one of those inexpensive power plug tester check to make sure the outlet is wired ok.
   
  Is the buzzing sound from both channels? Rigth and Left?
   
  If its in only one channel try swapping tubes from one socket to the other....
   
  Lastly call Jason at Schiit.
   
  Let us know
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> you should run the sonar line out to the Lyr not at 100% I hope not from the speaker output that would sound like Schiit


 
   
   
  Actually, it sounds just fine from the speaker output with the Xonar's volume at 100%. At least the bzzzz is quieter...
   


  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Rebel 975 I assume your sound card is in a desktop system.
> 
> Try plugging the power cord from the PC and the Lyr in the same power receptacle
> Its possible that one of the power outlets may not be grounded properly.
> ...


 


   
  The PC and the Lyr are already in the same outlet, connected to the same power strip. The sound is also there in a different outlet in the house, and with a different source. I connected my GF's iPod to the Lyr and the bzzzzzzzz was still there.
   
  It's coming from both channels. I can try taking out the tubes and switching them around.
   
  I don't have a power outlet tester- though I really don't think my outlets are suspect here. Like I said, it does the same thing in different outlets in the house.
   
  The outlets MUST be wired correctly as they've had my extremely power hungry PC connected to them for quite some time with no problems.


----------



## adydula

Rebel...
   
  Understand...I agree that your outlets are probably ok, but its always a good thing to check the wiring with a tester...
   
  Things can play even with the wiring not totally correct...and sometimes is just unsafe...
   
  But the fact u tried a different source etc. probably points to the tubes themselves...most lilkely i think...may be wrong or filtering it the Lyr..
   
  Call Jason etc asap the will responds asap....sorry your going thru this.
   
  All the best..
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

I mean, unless there are multiple outlets in this house that are wired incorrectly then it can't be them. And, wouldn't the incorrect wiring cause problems with my PC?
   
  I just tried switching the tubes around and it didn't make any difference.
   
   
  I guess I'll email Schiit and see what they have to say.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I mean, unless there are multiple outlets in this house that are wired incorrectly then it can't be them. And, wouldn't the incorrect wiring cause problems with my PC?
> 
> I just tried switching the tubes around and it didn't make any difference.
> 
> ...


 

 Admittedly I know little about Electrical Engineering (just two college classes) and wiring, but based on reading around these forums it is possible for an entire house to have bad wiring. That doesn't necessarily mean improperly, but degrading wires and the like as well. Also, just because things are getting power doesn't mean it's clean power, E.G. DC on the line and such. Audio chains are pretty susceptible to that. Anyway, the guys at Schiit are awesome so it's always a good idea to talk to them about it, but there are a lot of possibilities to what the issue might be.


----------



## Rebel975

If the guys at Schiit tell me it's the wiring in this house then I will take the amp to work with me and try it out there. I seriously doubt that it's my wiring, but I won't argue with the men themselves.
   
  Also- there is no background noise when connected only to my ASUS Xonar Essence ST. It's when I introduce the Lyr into the equation that I get the background "bzzzz." Maybe the Lyr is extra sensitive to electrical issues? I don't know. I've emailed Schiit, so we'll have to see what they say. 
   
  Thanks guys.


----------



## Uncle00Jesse

question for the schiit pros: i'm almost set on picking up a lyr. i'd would appreciate some input on whether you think the lyr would pair well with the sony sa5000s. from all my research these need tubes to sound their best, as well as a good amount of power. i also know that the lyr is not known for its tube like sound. i dont mind the brightness of the sa5000s as they are, but it would be nice if they were heated up just a bit. i believe they're 70 oms and need a lot of current.. do you think i'd be making a mistake pairing these guys with the lyr? all the "amp for sa5000" threads are from years ago..


----------



## Rope

If you haven't tried a "cheater" plug, that will possibly take care of the ground loop (buzzzz) issue.  If that isn't a solution, they make ground loop isolators that run about $12.00.


----------



## Kremer930

Doesnt the Lyr have a 15 day trial? You are in the US so why not? 

From memory my old AKG k702 were power hungry and rated at 72ohms. They worked really well with the Lyr. They just couldn't compete against my Hifiman HE6 In my opinion.


----------



## xxhaxx

Rebel have you tried connecting an Ipod or any other source to the lyr?
  If there isnt' a buzzing sound then the interconnect might be the problem


----------



## Rebel975

Yes, I've tried a different source (GF's iPod). The buzzzzzz stayed the same. Here's Jason's response (man they're fast!)
   
   
  "Sam,
  
 Yep, Lyr is absolutely not meant for high-sensitivity headphones. Period.
  
 You might want to try a ground loop isolator (3-prong to 2-prong AC cord adapter) or another source (iPod, whatever) to see if that minimizes it. But yep, source all the way up is best.
  
 But I'm afraid if you aren't going to use Lyr with orthos or high-impedance, low-sensitivity headphones, it's probably not going to be the best bet.
  
 Co-Founder
  
 http://www.schiit.com
 (323) 230-0079
  
 jason@schiit.com"
   
   
   
   
  So, I guess I'll look into a ground loop isolator. That should hopefully tide me over until I upgrade to some Orthos.
   
  What's important to note is that he recommends the source be at max volume. In this configuration the buzzzz sound from the Lyr is relatively quiet- though still very noticeable if the song stops, or goes into a quiet passage.
   
   
   
   
   
   
  Edit--------------
   
   
   
  So I'm looking at 3 prong to 2 prong adapters on Amazon, and I've found quite a few. How do these look?
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003C24UM2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3CXZ32ML2H79F
   
   
   
  But, there are also devices specifically called "Ground loop isolators."
   
  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_20?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=ground+loop+isolator&x=0&y=0&sprefix=ground+loop+isolator
   
   
   
  So, I went ahead and ordered the 3 prong to 2 prong adapter I linked to earlier. If that doesn't work then I'll look into one of the ground loop isolators.


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Yes, I've tried a different source (GF's iPod). The buzzzzzz stayed the same. Here's Jason's response (man they're fast!)
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 

 I could be wrong, but I fully expect that the ground loop isolator won't help.  I think what you're hearing is simply the inherent noise in the Lyr due to its high gain.  Like Jason said, the amp really isn't meant for low-impedance, high-sensitivity headphones like your Ultrasones.  I never really liked the Lyr with my Denons for the same reason.
   
  And yes, I also think Jason is correct to recommend that you put the source at max volume.  Assuming your source is designed well enough that there won't be clipping and there's enough dynamic headroom, then you'd want to have the source volume as high as possible to improve SNR in your setup.


----------



## dubselect

What about Lyr + AT W5000?


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> What about Lyr + AT W5000?


 

 Lyr is way too powerful for W5000.


----------



## tkteo

I use an impedance adapter when plugging in low impedance Grado/Alessandro. If not I'd definitely hear the humming sound.


----------



## jc9394

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> I use an impedance adapter when plugging in low impedance Grado/Alessandro. If not I'd definitely hear the humming sound.


 


  IMHO, impedance adapter will degrade the sound...


----------



## tkteo

I have not heard any degradation in the sound quality.


----------



## shaunybaby

so the lyr is not made for high sensitivity can,s right?
   
  but how come when i put my grados on to give it a whirl the sound was so shockingly bad compaired to my sen 650,s.
   
  when i say this i mean there was a buzz in the background and the whole soundstage was small and the sound was gainy and small in comparison, i listened for about 10 secounds and couldn,t stand the sound they made i put back on my 650,s and everything was golden and great!


----------



## tkteo

As others have mentioned, it is due to the high gain of the Lyr.


----------



## Rebel975

Well, if a ground loop isolator doesn't take away the buzz then I can live with it. It's not 'that' bad when there's music being played. I won't have high efficiency low impedance headphones forever.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> I use an impedance adapter when plugging in low impedance Grado/Alessandro. If not I'd definitely hear the humming sound.


 

 What "Impedance adapter" are you using?


----------



## tkteo

http://www.zombie-x.com/zxamateurcablesrev2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75_80&products_id=199


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





tkteo said:


> http://www.zombie-x.com/zxamateurcablesrev2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75_80&products_id=199


 


  Interesting, I wasn't aware of that product.  Did it happen to come with a schematic?  I am curious as to what load impedance it presents to the amplifier, the insertion loss, and what impedance it presents to the headphone.  Is it simply a single 100 ohm resistor in series with each headphone channel?


----------



## MrScary

sophonax said:


> I could be wrong, but I fully expect that the ground loop isolator won't help.  I think what you're hearing is simply the inherent noise in the Lyr due to its high gain.  Like Jason said, the amp really isn't meant for low-impedance, high-sensitivity headphones like your Ultrasones.  I never really liked the Lyr with my Denons for the same reason.
> 
> And yes, I also think Jason is correct to recommend that you put the source at max volume.  Assuming your source is designed well enough that there won't be clipping and there's enough dynamic headroom, then you'd want to have the source volume as high as possible to improve SNR in your setup.




Ive used the Ultrasone 700's with the Lyr and had no humming I agree that low impedance phones can cause issues but this sounds like something else


----------



## adydula

Cool nice to get fast responses and remember you have a 15 day return window...if totally unsuccessful with the ground plugs, adapters etc...fine...try a different set of cans to make sure the amp isnt still the issue...
   
  Do you have any headphone friends close by???
   
  I know the Ultrasones and Denons aren't the best with the Lyr, but the last post with the U700;s not having any hum....concerns me.
   
  Mr Scary with your experience was this at all volume levels etc..that the U700's had no hum at all???
   
  Alex


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> Cool nice to get fast responses and remember you have a 15 day return window...if totally unsuccessful with the ground plugs, adapters etc...fine...try a different set of cans to make sure the amp isnt still the issue...
> 
> Do you have any headphone friends close by???
> 
> ...




Let me check I will put on the Ulrasones now and check
Well I just tested the Ultrasone 700's from 0 to 2pm on the dial of the Lyr and no hum whatsoever I'm not going over 2pm I don't want to go deaf. There has to be a tube issue or other issue with the Lyr mine is not a hummin


----------



## Rebel975

Unfortunately I don't know anyone else that buys expensive headphones. But like I said, if the three prong to two prong adapter doesn't fix it then I will have to live with it until I upgrade to some Orthodynamic headphones. Or, I can buy a ground loop isolator, or one of those 100ohm impedance adapters.
   
  MrScary- interesting. I've got a "bzzzz" at any volume level.
   
  Well, hopefully the three prong to two prong adapter is all I need then. It'll be to my house sometime next week. I'll let you guys know what happens.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Unfortunately I don't know anyone else that buys expensive headphones. But like I said, if the three prong to two prong adapter doesn't fix it then I will have to live with it until I upgrade to some Orthodynamic headphones. Or, I can buy a ground loop isolator, or one of those 100ohm impedance adapters.
> 
> MrScary- interesting. I've got a "bzzzz" at any volume level.
> 
> Well, hopefully the three prong to two prong adapter is all I need then. It'll be to my house sometime next week. I'll let you guys know what happens.


 
  Sounds to me, from your description, like the buzz is not normal and not acceptable, call Jason and discuss it with them.
   
  It should be pretty painless to help you troubleshoot over the phone, but trying to do it via the forum can/will be a bit cumbersome.


----------



## Rebel975

If it continues after I get the 3 to 2 prong adapter that he recommended I will call him and ask about it.
   
   
   
  Edit------
   
  In the meantime, enjoy some pics of my new equipment. 
   
   


Spoiler: Pics



What's in the box?







 A Schiit Lyr headphone amplifier, (2x) JJ ECC88 tubes, a 1/8" to 1/4" headphone adapter, a 1/8" to dual RCA male cable, four rubber feet to put on the bottom of the Lyr, and of course a power cable. The 1/8" headphone to dual RCA cable is awesome. For sure the nicest RCA cable I've ever had. Also- the tubes were way smaller than I thought they would be. Actually, so is the entire unit.






 Pic of the front- pre tube install.






 Pic of the back- pre tube install.







 Overhead shot of the final cabling. It goes: Asus Xonar Essence ST > stereo RCA male to male cable > Schiit Lyr > Ultrasone PRO 2900. The RCA cable you see is a "passthrough" RCA. It came with my Astro Mixamp, and I'm thinking about using it to connect both the mixamp and my Xonar Essence ST to the Lyr at the same time. I haven't experimented with it yet.






 Shot of the headphones plugged in. I really need a headphone stand.

  



   
   
   
  2nd edit- I fixed the image tags.


----------



## ZorgDK

I have a very low hum with my 32ohm Superlux HD681 with the Lyr. I think it's normal with some very easy to drive headphones.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> If it continues after I get the 3 to 2 prong adapter that he recommended I will call him and ask about it.
> 
> Edit------
> In the meantime, enjoy some pics of my new equipment.
> ...


 

 Have you tried replacing those "pass through" cables with conventional RCA/RCA cables?


----------



## Rebel975

MrScary- you tried the Lyr with the HFI-700's? I just checked and I'm seeing that they have an impedance of 75 ohms? That's why you aren't getting a buzzzz. The PRO 2900's are only 40 ohms. Seems the 100 ohm adapter will be what I need.
   
   
  Kwkarth-  Yes. It's not the cables. It makes the same background noise with any cable and out of any outlet in the house. It even makes the same sound using the 1/8" to dual RCA cable that came with the Lyr.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> MrScary- you tried the Lyr with the HFI-700's? I just checked and I'm seeing that they have an impedance of 75 ohms? That's why you aren't getting a buzzzz. The PRO 2900's are only 40 ohms. Seems the 100 ohm adapter will be what I need.
> 
> 
> Edit- Yes. It's not the cables. It makes the same background noise with any cable and out of any outlet in the house. It even makes the same sound using the 1/8" to dual RCA cable that came with the Lyr.


 
  I think he's created a ground loop with his "pass through" RCA cables.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> MrScary- you tried the Lyr with the HFI-700's? I just checked and I'm seeing that they have an impedance of 75 ohms? That's why you aren't getting a buzzzz. The PRO 2900's are only 40 ohms. Seems the 100 ohm adapter will be what I need.
> 
> 
> Kwkarth-  Yes. It's not the cables. It makes the same background noise with any cable and out of any outlet in the house. It even makes the same sound using the 1/8" to dual RCA cable that came with the Lyr.


 
  So, you're telling me that with nothing plugged into the Lyr except AC power and the mini TRS to RCA which is plugged into a battery powered MP3 player, you still have hum?


----------



## Rebel975

Then why does it do it even when I use the included 1/8" to dual RCA cable? And besides, why would the passthrough cable make any difference? It doesn't have anything extra connected to it.


----------



## kwkarth

What happens if you unplug EVERYTHING from the Lyr except AC power, turn on the Lyr, and then plug in the headphones with nothing playing, you still have the same exact buzz?


----------



## Rebel975

Yes. It buzzzes even when I only have the power and 1/8" to dual RCA cable connected to a portable MP3 player.
   
   
   
  I'll try plugging in the headphones with only power in the Lyr later tonight. I'm at work (on lunchbreak) atm.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Yes. It buzzzes even when I only have the power and 1/8" to dual RCA cable connected to a portable MP3 player.
> 
> *But is the MP3 player plugged into an external power source?*
> 
> ...


 
  I will await your answer.


----------



## Rebel975

The answer to your question is no. The MP3 was not plugged in to an external power source.
   
  I had the Lyr plugged into a power outlet. The headphones plugged into the Lyr. The MP3 player operating on battery power, and in no way shape or form connected to anything other than the Lyr.
   
  It still buzzzzed.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> The answer to your question is no. The MP3 was not plugged in to an external power source.
> 
> I had the Lyr plugged into a power outlet. The headphones plugged into the Lyr. The MP3 player operating on battery power, and in no way shape or form connected to anything other than the Lyr.
> 
> It still buzzzzed.


 
  And the interconnect from the MP3 player to the Lyr went nowhere else, right?  One more thing when you get home, while you are listening to the Lyr with nothing plugged into it, gently pick it up and rotate 90º as you listen.  Does the buzz/hum change?


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> What happens if you unplug EVERYTHING from the Lyr except AC power, turn on the Lyr, and then plug in the headphones with nothing playing, you still have the same exact buzz?


 

 Both my Lyrs buzzed / hummed in this situation with low-impedance headphones.  I thought the first Lyr might be defective because of the hum, so I contacted Jason about it and sent it back.  Turns out there was a slight grounding issue with the volume pot, so Schiit sent me a new Lyr.  The replacement was a bit quieter, but it still buzzed / hummed, regardless of the setting of the volume knob, with sensitive headphones.
  
  At the end of the day, I just chalked it up to an unfortunate side-effect of the amps very high gain.  Sounded great with higher impedance / less sensitive headphones, but I always went back to my Asgard for the low impedance / sensitive headphones -- the Asgard is dead silent.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





sophonax said:


> Both my Lyrs buzzed / hummed in this situation with low-impedance headphones.  I thought the first Lyr might be defective because of the hum, so I contacted Jason about it and sent it back.  Turns out there was a slight grounding issue with the volume pot, so Schiit sent me a new Lyr.  The replacement was a bit quieter, but it still buzzed / hummed, regardless of the setting of the volume knob, with sensitive headphones.
> 
> At the end of the day, I just chalked it up to an unfortunate side-effect of the amps very high gain.  Sounded great with higher impedance / less sensitive headphones, but I always went back to my Asgard for the low impedance / sensitive headphones -- the Asgard is dead silent.


 

 I understand.  This might be the case here too,  Let me see what I get with my Ultrasones.


----------



## Loevhagen

Nevermind the Lyr. Let's wait for the Statement.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I understand.  This might be the case here too,  Let me see what I get with my Ultrasones.


 
  I've got a pair of Pro 2500s which are very similar to the 2900s.  
  Edit:

 No music playing: Hum and noise virtually inaudible below 3 o'clock  
 Music playing:  Comfortable listening volume at 9:30, painfully loud at 11:00.
 The LCD-2s actually seem a scoshe more sensitive than the 2500s.


----------



## MrScary

rebel975 said:


> MrScary- you tried the Lyr with the HFI-700's? I just checked and I'm seeing that they have an impedance of 75 ohms? That's why you aren't getting a buzzzz. The PRO 2900's are only 40 ohms. Seems the 100 ohm adapter will be what I need.
> 
> 
> Kwkarth-  Yes. It's not the cables. It makes the same background noise with any cable and out of any outlet in the house. It even makes the same sound using the 1/8" to dual RCA cable that came with the Lyr.




I dont get humm with my 32ohm Futuresonic M8's either


----------



## xxhaxx

Rebel where are you located at? someone in the same vicinity might be able to help you test out your equipment


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> And the interconnect from the MP3 player to the Lyr went nowhere else, right?  One more thing when you get home, while you are listening to the Lyr with nothing plugged into it, gently pick it up and rotate 90º as you listen.  Does the buzz/hum change?


 

  
  Yes, like I said, the MP3 player only went to the Lyr. There weren't any cables connected except for the power for the Lyr (going straight into a wall jack and not through a power strip/splitter/etc., though going into a power strip didn't make any difference), the headphones, and the MP3 player connected to the Lyr.
   
   


  Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Interesting...
   
   

  
   


  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> I've got a pair of Pro 2500s which are very similar to the 2900s.
> Edit:
> 
> No music playing: Hum and noise virtually inaudible below 3 o'clock
> ...


 
   
   
  The buzzzzz was audible from any volume level for me. I agree though, anything above 9:30 got too loud.
   

  
  Quote: 





xxhaxx said:


> Rebel where are you located at? someone in the same vicinity might be able to help you test out your equipment


 
   
   
   
  I'm in Lyle, WA, which is nearby Hood River, OR, and The Dalles, OR. About an hour away from Portland, though I wouldn't travel that far for this. If anyone in the Columbia River Gorge area wants to invite me over to test out my Lyr, then by all means let me know. PM me. We can work out the details.
   
   
   
  @kwkarth- I'll try everything you have said when I get home. I'm still at work for another hour and a half.
   
   
  I appreciate everyone's help in this. Thanks guys.


----------



## adydula

I tried a pair of 38 ohm Audio Technica ATH M50's 99db sensitivity....no hum...but when I inserted them slowly in the jack i heard a 'ping' sound twice, once when the right part and once when the left part of the jack mated with the electrical contact in the Lyr headphone jack...with the volume at 8 am pretty low. The sound was like a pencil tappnig a glass bottle....I tapped on the tubes with my finger lightly and yes that was the sound...this is abit odd.
   
  With the LCD2's insert in and out of the jack no sounds (same volume level)...and the tubes dont act 'microphonically' tape the tubes and no sound period..
   
  I always turn on the amp, volume down, nothing playing insert the phones into the jack start a song and slowly turn up the volume....with either the 38 ohm M50s or the LCD2s there is no audible hum.
   
  Alex


----------



## Steve Eddy

Just a note on safety.
   
  "Three prong to two prong adapters" should NEVER be used to defeat the AC mains safety ground except for testing purposes only. The so-called "cheater plugs" were not designed nor intended for defeating the AC mains safety ground. Just the opposite, they are designed to _provide_ one.
   
  Many older homes, although originally fitted with two prong outlets, were wired with three conductor mains wiring, the third wire being the AC safety ground tied to neutral back at the service panel, connected only to the metal outlet box.
   
  The "cheater plugs" are designed to provide a safety ground on two prong outlets by way of the outlet cover's screw which connects the "cheater plugs" fork terminal or pigtail to the outlet's metal frame which is in contact with the metal outlet box.
   
  Any piece of gear with a three prong IEC connector on it should be assumed to be Class I (i.e. not double insulated) and the safety ground should not be defeated except for testing purposes.
   
  Sorry. But I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to safety, especially regarding the AC mains.
   
  se


----------



## Rebel975

What if the "cheater plug" connects the Lyr to a power strip that has a three prong design? What are the rules on that?


----------



## adydula

the idea here with the grounds is with a 3 prong outlet is to provide power to appliances via the white and black wires.
   
  the white wire called neutral. (inside the outlet box)
   
  the black wire is called "hot". (inside the outlet box)
   
  these two wires alone provide power via the hot supply and the white neutral or return.
   
  back in the main power box the white wire is usually tied to earth ground...a pipe or copper rod in the ground.
   
  the left slot is usually longer than the right slot if u look at the socket this is the neutral where the white wire is connected or supposed to be connected to.
   
  the right slot is the 'hot' or where the black wire is connected or supposed to be connected to.
   
  the third hole below these two is the 'ground' its connected to the copper wire in the wiring and goes back to the power panel to the earth ground. *The ground slot and the neutral slot of an outlet are identical.* That is, if you go back to the fuse box, you will find that the neutral and ground wires from all of the outlets go to the same place. They all connect to ground  ..so why do you need 2??
   
  If you look around your house, what you will find is that just about every appliance with a metal case has a three-prong outlet. This may also include some things, like your computer and audio stuff, that have a metal-encased power supply inside even if the device itself comes in a plastic case. The idea behind *grounding* is to protect the people who use metal-encased appliances from electric shock. The casing is connected directly to the ground prong.  
   
  Let's say that a wire comes loose inside an ungrounded metal case, and the loose wire touches the metal case. If the loose wire is hot, then the metal case is now hot, and anyone who touches it will get a potentially fatal shock. With the case grounded, the electricity from the hot wire flows straight to ground, and this trips the fuse in the fuse box. Now the appliance won't work, but it won't kill you either.  
   
  What happens if you cut off the ground prong or use a *cheater plug* so you can plug a three-prong appliance into a two-prong outlet? Nothing really -- the appliance will still operate. What you have done, however, is disable an important safety feature that protects you from electric shock if a wire comes loose. 
   
  The end result whether you use a outlet or a power strip all three conncections need to be there and functional...using a cheater plug is not a good idea except for testing etc...
   
  Getting a socket tester from Home Depot, Lowes will tell you really quick if the outlet is wired correctly...if you use a cheater plug and the hum goes away....then you need to resolve the issue and get rid of the cheater plug.
   
  Its real simple, but sounds complex.
   
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

Thanks, that's really helpful. I'll test with the cheater plug, and if that fixes the problem then I'll look into one of those ground loop isolators. Sound good?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Yes, like I said, the MP3 player only went to the Lyr. There weren't any cables connected except for the power for the Lyr (going straight into a wall jack and not through a power strip/splitter/etc., though going into a power strip didn't make any difference), the headphones, and the MP3 player connected to the Lyr.
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> ...


 
  I live in PDX, and if you want to bring the amp to my house I will be glad to trouble shoot it with you, and then you'll know with 100% certainty if it's defective or not.  I've got a Lyr we can compare it with.  Send me a PM if that will be helpful for you.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> One more thing when you get home, while you are listening to the Lyr with nothing plugged into it, gently pick it up and rotate 90º as you listen.  Does the buzz/hum change?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  
   
   
  I just tried it with ONLY the power cable for the Lyr, and it still has the background buzzz. Picking it up and rotating it did nothing to change the sound.
   
   
  I wish you lived closer. 2+ (more like 3) hours round trip is a bit much to drive. :\


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I just tried it with ONLY the power cable for the Lyr, and it still has the background buzzz. Picking it up and rotating it did nothing to change the sound.
> 
> I wish you lived closer. 2+ (more like 3) hours round trip is a bit much to drive. :\


 
  My wife and I drive up to Stevens, WA now and then for lunch @ Skamania Lodge.  Nice drive particularly on the WA side of the river.  We aren't coming up that way tomorrow though. If you want to drive here, we could all grab lunch afterwards.  Your call.


----------



## Rebel975

Stevenson? I've been there. There are some nice hikes in that area.
   
  Unfortunately Portland is too far to drive. Thanks anyways. I really do appreciate it a lot.
   
  I'd love for someone in the Columbia River Gorge area to volunteer to test stuff with me though.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





adydula said:


> I tried a pair of 38 ohm Audio Technica ATH M50's 99db sensitivity....no hum...but when I inserted them slowly in the jack i heard a 'ping' sound twice, once when the right part and once when the left part of the jack mated with the electrical contact in the Lyr headphone jack...with the volume at 8 am pretty low. The sound was like a pencil tappnig a glass bottle....I tapped on the tubes with my finger lightly and yes that was the sound...this is abit odd.
> 
> With the LCD2's insert in and out of the jack no sounds (same volume level)...and the tubes dont act 'microphonically' tape the tubes and no sound period..
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, I get the same *bling* sound with the GE 6BZ7 tubes when I insert my 32ohm headphones. No sound with my other phones. Same thing with the Brimar tubes.


----------



## adydula

Rebel...if only the Lyr is connected to a power outlet 3 prong..with nothing else connected to inputs , outsputs etc...and you here the buzz then its the unit or the wiring in the outlet.
   
  The simple socket tester should easily tell you if the socket is not wired ok.
   
  Also dont remember have you taken the unit to another outlet in the house...not in the same room or area...go somewhere far from this outlet. If your upstairs go downstairs etc...somtimes one circuit may not be wired ok, but others on other circuits maybe just fine.
   
  This is sounding like tubes, or a not so great ground in the Lyr...volume pot to ground or maybe filtering...of course you wont know until the root cause is found..
   
  I am in North Carolina...probably too far as well!!
   
  (smiling)....
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## tkteo

Remember another way to eliminate the possibilities: using the same outlet and plug, plug a pair of high impedance headphones into the Lyr. If the humming or buzzing is due to the Lyr's inherent high gain, the it should be far less audible in high impedance headphones.
   
  I know that the current discussion is about wiring, grounding related possibilities, but in my personal experience it was a problem that arose with my use of low impedance headphones. I do not hear any humming or buzzing when I use AKH K702s, regardless of the tubes I roll as well.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





adydula said:


> Rebel...if only the Lyr is connected to a power outlet 3 prong..with nothing else connected to inputs , outsputs etc...and you here the buzz then its the unit or the wiring in the outlet.
> 
> The simple socket tester should easily tell you if the socket is not wired ok.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes, I've taken it to another outlet in the house. It's a fairly small house, but the two outlets I've tested with were about 30 feet apart, and in different rooms. One in the game room, one in the kitchen.
   
  I went ahead and ordered an outlet tester. It was about $8 with shipping from Amazon. Now please, never mention one again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
   


  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> Remember another way to eliminate the possibilities: using the same outlet and plug, plug a pair of high impedance headphones into the Lyr. If the humming or buzzing is due to the Lyr's inherent high gain, the it should be far less audible in high impedance headphones.
> 
> I know that the current discussion is about wiring, grounding related possibilities, but in my personal experience it was a problem that arose with my use of low impedance headphones. I do not hear any humming or buzzing when I use AKH K702s, regardless of the tubes I roll as well.


 


   
  Unfortunately I only have the one pair of headphones. Ultrasone PRO 2900. 50 ohms, 96db sensitivity.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Yes, I've taken it to another outlet in the house. It's a fairly small house, but the two outlets I've tested with were about 30 feet apart, and in different rooms. One in the game room, one in the kitchen.
> 
> I went ahead and ordered an outlet tester. It was about $8 with shipping from Amazon. Now please, never mention one again.
> 
> ...


 
  We've already established that the Ultrasones should not be an issue.  Remember, I tested my Pro 2500 and actually found them to be slightly less sensitive than the LCD-2s.  In other words, they're nice and quiet with the Lyr.  Your problem still sounds like a tube issue to me, barring a flat out defective unit.  Oh, the outlet testers are available from Home Depot for 4 bux.


----------



## adydula

Cool...not going to mention an outlet tester!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




...but I am glad you got one coming!!
   
  All the best!
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

It's simply a lot more convenient for me to order one online. So, I should have a cheater plug and an outlet tester sometime next week. That's when we'll know more. Until then I won't be using the Lyr. The sound is just loud enough to be annoying. :/


Edit: Actually, I wish I hadn't ordered without thinking first. I hadn't even considered a brick and mortar store like Home Depot. The closest one is 30 minutes away. I would of made the drive. Now I have to wait several days for a delivery. Oh well.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





zorgdk said:


> Yeah, I get the same **bling** sound with the GE 6BZ7 tubes when I insert my 32ohm headphones. No sound with my other phones. Same thing with the Brimar tubes.


 

 Also referred to as "tube ringing", and if only present when inserting the HF jack, shouldn't be an issue.  If the ringing happens at certain frequencies, then you have a mircophonic tube(s).
   
  Do you let your amp warm up to operating temperature before use?


----------



## adydula

Rope,
   
  Thanks for the information...yes I usually let the Lyr warm up for 15 - 30 minutes...I normally have the volume control all the way down and only heard this when the volume control
  was abit above this...not an issue playing. It was really a wierd glass bottle sound...tube ringing....well there ya go..
   
  Alex


----------



## Rope

^^
  If you have a change of heart and  decide you like the ringing sound, take a pencil eraser and lightly tap the tube while powered up with your phones on.


----------



## Rebel975

I don't know if it means anything to my current situation with the Lyr, but if I tap on the tubes I also hear a ringing sound in each ear respectively. I can make it happen at any time. It's not just when plugging the headphones in.


----------



## MrScary

rebel975 said:


> I don't know if it means anything to my current situation with the Lyr, but if I tap on the tubes I also hear a ringing sound in each ear respectively. I can make it happen at any time. It's not just when plugging the headphones in.




Have you contacted Jason from Schiit? I think he will be able to send you out some new tubes if you got a bad set


----------



## Rebel975

I just sent him an email update of my situation. I told him everything that's happened so far. Microphonic tubes, background buzz with nothing connected except the headphones and power, ordering a cheater plug, etc.


----------



## Rope

All tubes will "ring" if tapped under power, tubes that sing their own song (ring) at certain frequencies are microphonic.


----------



## Rebel975

Okay, cool. Then he'll say it's normal to do that and we can cross that off the list.


----------



## obazavil

My friend (I hope) arrives on monday with my Lyr... can't wait


----------



## VALIENTE

Quote:


obazavil said:


> My friend (I hope) arrives on monday with my Lyr... can't wait


 

  
  Please try it with your K702. Make also a short comparison with Fiio E9 vs Lyr. Thank you!


----------



## Shubar

My Lyr just got delivered, never knew it was that small and heavy!!! Really impressed with the built quality.


----------



## adydula

Shubar , this thing is a little beast...I just swapped out some tubes and it was 'Wow' this thing is heavy for its size,those two transformers inside make it a bit weighty for the good...enjoy your new amp!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





shubar said:


> My Lyr just got delivered, never knew it was that small and heavy!!! Really impressed with the built quality.


 


  No reason not to stack it on the bifrost for you now


----------



## dubselect

Hi, guys.
  What about HD800 + Lyr? Is it a good combo?


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> Hi, guys.
> What about HD800 + Lyr? Is it a good combo?


 

 I'd say yes, but it depends on what you want to get out of the HD800.  If you want to give the HD800 a boost in dynamics and impact, then the Lyr is a good choice.  However, if you want an amp that will showcase the HD800's detail and clarity, a good solid-state amp would probably be better than the Lyr.  And if you want to make the HD800 a little warmer and more relaxed, then an OTL tube amp may be the way to go.
   
  I actually find that the HD800 responds well to many different kinds of amplifiers -- the choice ultimately comes down to the user's listening preferences.  I personally prefer the HD800 on a solid-state amp, but the Lyr provides a fun, interesting alternative.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> Hi, guys.
> What about HD800 + Lyr? Is it a good combo?


 

 Lyr is a hybrid amp, tubes on the input side, SS on the output side, therefore you have the option of changing the input tubes to reflect the sound you may be after.  If the HD800's are a bit forward and you'd like to dress it down a bit, use some Mullard tubes, which have a tendency to be on the "warm" side.


----------



## Olias of Sunhillow

Quote: 





dubselect said:


> Hi, guys.
> What about HD800 + Lyr? Is it a good combo?


 

 I liked the HD800/Lyr combo. I'd suggest trying some low-gain tubes first to keep the highs under control (as opposed to something like the 6BZ7 tubes Schiit has recently made available).


----------



## Naim.F.C

Anyone tried the T1's with a Lyr? Also what else would I need to play it off my iPhone or Mac? Dac? Cables?


----------



## leesure

naim.f.c said:


> Anyone tried the T1's with a Lyr? Also what else would I need to play it off my iPhone or Mac? Dac? Cables?




It's an amp...at the most basic, you'll need a 1/8" stereo to Stereo RCA cord. That would go from your iPhone headphone out to the amp.

Next step in improvement would come from an LOD (line out direct) cable. It goes from the dock connector on your iPhone to the amp and bypasses the phone's volume control.

Up again would be products like the Wadia digital transport or the Pure iPod dock...the former just gets the digital out from the iPhone and would them require a DAC to convert that to analog to go to the amp. The latter (Pure dock) has a built in DAC as well as a digital out. At $99 its easily the most economical way to get digital from your iPod/iPhone AND has a DAC built in.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Quote: 





leesure said:


> It's an amp...at the most basic, you'll need a 1/8" stereo to Stereo RCA cord. That would go from your iPhone headphone out to the amp.
> 
> Next step in improvement would come from an LOD (line out direct) cable. It goes from the dock connector on your iPhone to the amp and bypasses the phone's volume control.
> 
> Up again would be products like the Wadia digital transport or the Pure iPod dock...the former just gets the digital out from the iPhone and would them require a DAC to convert that to analog to go to the amp. The latter (Pure dock) has a built in DAC as well as a digital out. At $99 its easily the most economical way to get digital from your iPod/iPhone AND has a DAC built in.


 

 Really appreciate the super helpful post. I currently have a high quality 18 AWG LOD I use with my portable amps. Would this be sufficient to connect to the Lyr and is a separate DAC a must, or is the quality via LOD from the iPhone sufficient? Many thanks once again.


----------



## yeemanz

Finally got my Lyr today...yay!! Amazing build quality and crazy small footprint. Finding that it really improves the clarity of my K702s.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> Anyone tried the T1's with a Lyr? Also what else would I need to play it off my iPhone or Mac? Dac? Cables?


 

 You can also try HRT products which are excellent for their price range. I am using HRT Music Streamer II with my Macbook Pro as my DAC right now and it is almost as good as my old giant Stello DA100 DAC. 
   
  For iDevices like iPod or iPhone, they have HRT iStreamer.


----------



## adydula

I am using a HRT Music Streamer ii with a laptop with FLACS to the Lyr...is really pretty good...
   
  Asynchronous USB.
   
  Alex


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> Really appreciate the super helpful post. I currently have a high quality 18 AWG LOD I use with my portable amps. Would this be sufficient to connect to the Lyr and* is a separate DAC a must, or is the quality via LOD from the iPhone sufficient?* Many thanks once again.


 
   
  Ahhhh...that's a question only you can answer.  See if you can borrow a DAC and get a digital signal from your computer or iPhone to it.  Make a comparison to your LOD and decide for yourself.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote:


rebel975 said:


>





> ...Cheater plug/outlet tester...


 


   
  So I got my cheater plug and outlet tester in the mail today. Results? Every outlet in this house is as it should be. The cheater plug makes the background noise way quieter. It's barely even noticeable with the cheater plug installed, at any volume level. I cranked it up to max and could barely hear the buzz.
   
  At this point, with a Hifiman HE-500 on the way, I'm going to forget about it. As long as it doesn't buzz with the HE-500's then I'm considering this problem resolved.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I've used a "cheater plug" on my headphone amplifiers for years.  The most handy, dandy .69 cent item in the world.


----------



## Rebel975

It seems like that's a really bad idea. If the buzz continues then I'll buy a ground loop isolator instead. They can be had for ~$10 on Amazon.


----------



## shaunybaby




----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> It seems like that's a really bad idea. If the buzz continues then I'll buy a ground loop isolator instead. They can be had for ~$10 on Amazon.


 

 What power cord are you using with your Lyr?


----------



## Rebel975

The one that came with the Lyr.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> The one that came with the Lyr.


 
  Very strange.  There must be a lot of noise on your home's ground.  Do you have any idea how well your home ground is really grounded?  Like at least a 4 foot solid copper stake pounded into the earth all the way?


----------



## pockits

Finally I HAVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AMAZING THING THOU!!
   
  I can tell for the size and weight that is very well made, plus, you can see all the parts..
   
  The sound... will see. I will let you know tomorrow...


----------



## shamrock134

Grrrr my Lyr is being held by UK customs awaiting payment of fees. So I won't actually get it until next week!


----------



## Misterrogers

Wow, that sucks. Hang in there - very soon.


----------



## shamrock134

The fees bother me more than the waiting. Since the recession nothing gets through customs without them getting back their import duty. Makes getting all the awesome gear available in the US that bit more expensive.
   
  I expect it'll be +20% import VAT and a little extra "administration" fee.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Very strange.  There must be a lot of noise on your home's ground.  Do you have any idea how well your home ground is really grounded?  Like at least a 4 foot solid copper stake pounded into the earth all the way?


 
   
  Actually a rod stuck in the ground has no relevance at all to an audio system's grounding. Their only purpose is for lightning protection vis a vis the AC distribution system.
   
  If the noise is not an internal issue (i.e. you get the noise even without any other piece of equipment connected), then it's due to interchassis leakage currents which have nothing to do with the ground rod.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Actually a rod stuck in the ground has no relevance at all to an audio system's grounding. Their only purpose is for lightning protection vis a vis the AC distribution system.
> 
> If the noise is not an internal issue (i.e. you get the noise even without any other piece of equipment connected), then it's due to interchassis leakage currents which have nothing to do with the ground rod.
> 
> se


 
  Somehow, common mode noise is getting into his amp with nothing connected to it except power.  When he uses a cheater plug (lifting earth ground) the noise goes away.  What's your analysis from that scenario?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Somehow, common mode noise is getting into his amp with nothing connected to it except power.  When he uses a cheater plug (lifting earth ground) the noise goes away.  What's your analysis from that scenario?


 
   
  Hmmm...
   
  I'd like to know more about the Lyr's internal grounding scheme. Also, whether he gets the same result regardless of which AC outlet the Lyr's plugged into.
   
  se


----------



## Steve Eddy

Oh, and does the level of the noise change with volume setting?
   
  se


----------



## MrScary

steve eddy said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I'd like to know more about the Lyr's internal grounding scheme. Also, whether he gets the same result regardless of which AC outlet the Lyr's plugged into.
> 
> se




Hes got bad electrical, probably alot of DC coming in through the line this is a common issue with hum in this thread unless the person is using low impedance phones or IEM's


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Hes got bad electrical, probably alot of DC coming in through the line this is a common issue with hum in this thread unless the person is using low impedance phones or IEM's


 

 But he'd have DC coming in through the line even with the "cheater plug." But according to him, the noise effectively goes away when he's using a "cheater plug."
   
  se


----------



## MrScary

mrscary said:


> Hes got bad electrical, probably alot of DC coming in through the line this is a common issue with hum in this thread unless the person is using low impedance phones or IEM's




kwkarth is the expert I was just doing by best guess


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Very strange.  There must be a lot of noise on your home's ground.  Do you have any idea how well your home ground is really grounded?  Like at least a 4 foot solid copper stake pounded into the earth all the way?


 

  
  I have no idea. This is a rental house, and we're moving out in December.
   


  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I'd like to know more about the Lyr's internal grounding scheme. Also, whether he gets the same result regardless of which AC outlet the Lyr's plugged into.
> 
> se


 


  I get the same result in the 3 or 4 different outlets I've tested it with in this house. Like I said before though, every single outlet in this house tests normal with the outlet tester. Every single one.
   

  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> But he'd have DC coming in through the line even with the "cheater plug." But according to him, the noise effectively goes away when he's using a "cheater plug."
> 
> se


 

  
  That's right. With the cheater plug the noise is basically gone.
   
   
   


  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Oh, and does the level of the noise change with volume setting?
> 
> se


 


  Without the cheater plug? Yes.
   
  With the cheater plug? No, not really. I put it at max volume and still could barely hear it.
   
   
  Also- with the cheater plug, having RCA connections or NOT having RCA connections makes no difference. This thing is nearly dead silent with the cheater plug. If I wasn't threatened with dieing a horrible death if I use it then I'd say it's a godsend.
   
   
   
  Also also- we'll see what happens Monday when my new Hifiman HE-500's get here. If it buzzes with them then we've got a problem.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Ok, one more question.
   
  Without the "cheater plug," do you hear any difference in the level of noise if you're touching the chassis or volume knob?
   
  se


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Ok, one more question.
> 
> Without the "cheater plug," do you hear any difference in the level of noise if you're touching the chassis or volume knob?
> 
> se


 


   
  Without the cheater plug the buzz increases with volume increase. It's to the point of being annoyingly loud. I don't dare go up to max because the buzz gets very loud. That's with or without any RCA connections. Doesn't make any difference.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I have no idea. This is a rental house, and we're moving out in December.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL!  Thanks for that, you just made my day.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote:  





> Without the cheater plug the buzz increases with volume increase. It's to the point of being annoyingly loud. I don't dare go up to max because the buzz gets very loud. That's with or without any RCA connections. Doesn't make any difference.


 

 Would you be able to make a pair of shorting RCA plugs?
   
  se


----------



## Rebel975

Is that just an RCA male to RCA male to connect the Left and Right RCA inputs on the back of the Lyr?
   
  If so, I'm not sure why I would have to make anything. Couldn't I just connect both red ends of an RCA male to male cable into the Left and Right RCA inputs of the Lyr?
   
   
  Edit- except, I hadn't considered the Lyr's RCA outputs. So, I connected the Lyr's RCA outputs to each other, and the RCA inputs to each other, and there was no change.
   
  The buzz suddenly gets twice as loud in the respective channel if an RCA cable is just barely in the Lyr's respective inputs. But goes to the normal buzz level when fully inserted.
   
   
   
  I'm dieing to get the HE-500's.


----------



## Steve Eddy

No, a shorting plug is an RCA plug that has the center pin shorted to the ground sleeve.
   
  se


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> No, a shorting plug is an RCA plug that has the center pin shorted to the ground sleeve.
> 
> se


 
  Don't plug it into the pre-out.


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kwkarth* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Don't plug it into the pre-out.


 


 Right. Should be plugged into the inputs.
   
  se


----------



## Rebel975

Then I suppose I can't make one. Let's wait till Monday and see if I need to buy one.


----------



## Rebel975

Just got my HE-500's- the Lyr is dead silent with them up to about 2 pm on the dial. 10 am is loud enough for me.


----------



## pockits

Guys.... 2 days so far and....
  I am amazed!!!
  I change the tubes for Amperex EC88 orange boy... And .... way way wayyyy better... I know is an expensive upgrade but I had them in my tube box.


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  Sometimes with my Lyr I hear stuff I'm not supposed to listen through the headphones, like if I knock on the table, or knock the metal case of Lyr I listen echo or some noise with 0 volume.
   
  I'm using the Valvo's E88CC, I need to do more testing to see if is a tube thing.. or what...
   
  I just find it very weird...
   
  Anyone experiencing the same?


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Sometimes with my Lyr I hear stuff I'm not supposed to listen through the headphones, like if I knock on the table, or knock the metal case of Lyr I listen echo or some noise with 0 volume.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Any more weird than someone sitting around listening to their amp with the volume turned all the way down while they knock on tables and amp chassis? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Seriously, unless there's someone knocking on the table and your amp chassis while you're listening to music (in which case you should just tell them to bugger off and go bother someone else), I don't think I'd worry about it.
   
  se


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  I did the same experiment with my Fiio E9, and is dead silent. I just find weird that I listen stuff I should not hear when using Lyr...
  
  Quote: 





steve eddy said:


> Any more weird than someone sitting around listening to their amp with the volume turned all the way down while they knock on tables and amp chassis?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Rebel975

The E9 doesn't have tubes. Give the tubes on the Lyr a light tap when they're on- I bet that that's where the sound is coming from. On mine, if the Lyr has been on for 10+ minutes the tubes no longer make any sound. They need to warm up a bit before they go silent.


----------



## kwkarth

Hmmm,  ghosts of Christmas past...  Tubes are inherently microphonic.


----------



## xxhaxx

Wouldn't the echoing be considered microphonics?


----------



## Rope

"Tube Ringing" is common when the tubes are exposed to vibration, although tubes that sing their own song at certain frequencies, without outside influence, are considered microphonic and should be sold to an enemy.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> "Tube Ringing" is common when the tubes are exposed to vibration, although tubes that sing their own song at certain frequencies, without outside influence, are considered microphonic and should be sold to an enemy.


 
  The term "microphonic" implies that something (the tube in this case) is picking up vibrations from the environment and letting those vibrations get into the amplification chain by actually modulating the electron flow.  All tubes are by nature, microphonic.  Extra care has been taken in the case of many tubes used in audio applications to minimize this characteristic, through mechanical fortification of the tube's internal structure.  Tubes that are so microphonic that they go into self oscillation are defective, as rope says.


----------



## pockits

Totally agree...
  Change the tubes and check again..


----------



## Loevhagen

Microphonic tubes: In a speaker system I can see the problem, but with an headamp - where does the vibrations come from. Headbanging?


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Microphonic tubes: In a speaker system I can see the problem, but with an headamp - where does the vibrations come from. Headbanging?


 


  OP stated "if I knock on the table, or knock the metal case of Lyr I listen echo or some noise with 0 volume"


----------



## Loevhagen

Oh. Sorry. I missed that. Will not happen again. * knock on wood * (I can because I use a SS amp).


----------



## MrScary

obazavil said:


> Hmm...
> 
> Sometimes with my Lyr I hear stuff I'm not supposed to listen through the headphones, like if I knock on the table, or knock the metal case of Lyr I listen echo or some noise with 0 volume.
> 
> ...




The tubes could be microphonic tap on the amp with a pencil gently and see what you hear. Not the tubes if you hear something then the tubes have higher microphone properties


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Microphonic tubes: In a speaker system I can see the problem, but with an headamp - where does the vibrations come from. Headbanging?


 

 Nah, he has the HF amp on top of a subwoofer.


----------



## MrScary

rope said:


> Nah, he has the HF amp on top of a subwoofer.




hahahah he does ohh dear bad idea


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Microphonic tubes: In a speaker system I can see the problem, but with an headamp - where does the vibrations come from. Headbanging?


 
  You're quite right, in a headphone based system, tube microphonics are not nearly the issue that they would be if found in a speaker based system, but depending upon the level of microphonic behavior, the phenomena can be bothersome to unacceptable.


----------



## olor1n

I just noticed when turning the volume dial without any music on that there's a crunchy static sound in the right channel. I don't believe it's the tube and may be due to a dirty volume pot (noticeable when the dial is moved between 10 and 1 o'clock). The volume dial on my Audio-GD Fun does this when first adjusted from zero volume, but it soon disappears and doesn't persist like on the Lyr. I understand a dirty or faulty pot can greatly degrade the sound over time. Is there any way I can fix this (perhaps with some contact cleaner)?


----------



## xxhaxx

To be sure, switch out the tubes to see if the problem still persist


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I just noticed when turning the volume dial without any music on that there's a crunchy static sound in the right channel. I don't believe it's the tube and may be due to a dirty volume pot (noticeable when the dial is moved between 10 and 1 o'clock). The volume dial on my Audio-GD Fun does this when first adjusted from zero volume, but it soon disappears and doesn't persist like on the Lyr. I understand a dirty or faulty pot can greatly degrade the sound over time. Is there any way I can fix this (perhaps with some contact cleaner)?


 
  Yes, but make certain it a good quality electrical contact cleaner that will leave no residue.  Once applied, rotate the volume pot back and forth a number of times to assist the cleaning precess.


----------



## olor1n

I have DeoxIT (D and G solutions). Will these be fine? How would I go about applying it so the solution gets to part behind the front panel?


----------



## pockits

Finally... I must say.. this amp is amazing...
  I have been testing it with the following gear:
   
  Interconnection Cables: 
  Accuphase SuperRefine RCA cable.
   
  Power Cable:
  Isotek Extreme
  Shunyata Diamondback
   
  Amp:
  Schiit Lyr with Orange Boy amperex tubes
   
  DAC:
  Perreaux SXD2
   
  Cans:
   
  Beyer T1 -- Beyer DT 990 600ohms -- Sony MDR-S5000 -- Denon AH-A100
   
  Sound;
   
  I have been using it for 4 days... and I must say is amazing especially with this tubes.
   
  Every time I have a new gear I try to be very exceptical about comments, and with the Lyr is no different. Since I own a few good amps, the Lyr is cheaper and a tube amp. Sometimes that is not a reference for "powerfull sound" but more " soft easy sound", especially for high impedance headphones that are indeed unmanageable with tube gear.
   
  Saying this, the Lyr is a world apart from tube amps, and the price is just.... well, is not expensive at all. Let's focus on music.
   
  In Summer Place--- Percy Faith-- Warner Chappell... All of the cans sound just like they should.. Specially Beyers and Sony... Denon little woody can sound a little bit too much, specially in microphonics due the low impedance and smaller diaphragm. Trumpets and violins sound way to good, open, with tons of dynamic and a very wideeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee stereo image.. Of course a very common tube sound but with a definition never seen before in a tube can...
   
  In Michael Bubble -- Try a little tenderness -- Its time´... You have everything you ever wanted to hear and more.... The way you hear every noise, every word ... WOW.... That is more evident with Sonys and Beyers T1... with a resolution amazing and a stereo image way better than other amps... You can smell the current from this amp.... Sony specially shows you EVERYTHING... " When she is weary try a little tenderness........." Dear god... just superb..
   
  In Alison Moyet -- The singles -- You have everything the electronic sound can give... with tubes quality... and with "is this love" you want to crank it up !!!!!!!
   
  Conclusion:
   
  This is one of the best amps I have ever tested and of course I own it... With the right set up and tubes... You will have an experience you will never regret, and if you add to this amp, a proper Can... Behold....


----------



## shamrock134

I received my Lyr today. **** this thing gets hot!
   
  Should I be worried putting it on or near cooler running solid state gear?


----------



## adydula

pockits....wow...I know how you feel...the Lyr is certaintly very special for what it is and when you consider the cost its even an better treat....
   
  Need to go listen to Bubble!!
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## Steve Eddy

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I received my Lyr today. **** this thing gets hot!


 

 I believe the appropriate phrasing would be "Schiit this thing gets hot!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





> Should I be worried putting it on or near cooler running solid state gear?


 
   
  Not in terms of heat. Might want to avoid that just to keep it away from other gears' power supplies, but for heat? Naaaah.
   
  se


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> I have DeoxIT (D and G solutions). Will these be fine? How would I go about applying it so the solution gets to part behind the front panel?


 
  I have never used DeoxiT, so I cannot comment intelligently.  I have used electrical contact cleaner purchased from an electrical contractors supply, which costs around $40.00, and guarantees no residual residue.  To apply, I pull the pot knob, use the red tube supplied with the ECC, and squirt a small amount into the stem hole, then work to stem back and forth.  This eliminates all the pop, crackle, snap when rotating the volume pot.


----------



## MrScary

shamrock134 said:


> I received my Lyr today. **** this thing gets hot!
> 
> Should I be worried putting it on or near cooler running solid state gear?




hahaha no it will be fine all tube amps run hot some very very hot


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I received my Lyr today. **** this thing gets hot!
> 
> Should I be worried putting it on or near cooler running solid state gear?


 

 Make sure you use the feet underneath it and don't stack something on top of it.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> I have never used DeoxiT, so I cannot comment intelligently.  I have used electrical contact cleaner purchased from an electrical contractors supply, which costs around $40.00, and guarantees no residual residue.  To apply, I pull the pot knob, use the red tube supplied with the ECC, and squirt a small amount into the stem hole, then work to stem back and forth.  This eliminates all the pop, crackle, snap when rotating the volume pot.


 
  Caig make a volume control cleaner product.  I would recommend using that instead of DeOxit.
   
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.293/.f
http://store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2631/.f

   
  Make sure the scratching sound you're hearing is not due to DC offset in your input.


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I received my Lyr today. **** this thing gets hot!
> 
> Should I be worried putting it on or near cooler running solid state gear?


 

 Just be ready to witness a massive meltdown of epic proportions that will burn a hole clear through to the center of the earth. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Keep the Lyr away from anything plastic that may warp or melt. Good enough.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Caig make a volume control cleaner product.  I would recommend using that instead of DeOxit.
> 
> http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.293/.f
> http://store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2631/.f
> ...


 

 Thanks for that kw. How do I rule out DC offset? If it's an issue with that, could it originate from my dac's line level out or is it likely a problem with the Lyr?
   
  I dug up an old thread about noisy pots and there was a suggestion to turn the dial a number of times. After a while the static is less pronounced but is still present (which points to the dial as the cause).


----------



## Rope

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LPS-LABORATORIES-No-Flash-Contact-Cleaner-2F017?Pid=search


----------



## shamrock134

I've got my Solo stacked on top of it, but away from the tubes and vents. I need more desk space!
   
  Hopefully this won't happen to the Lyr, but I managed to cook my last GPU which hit temps in excess of 130C!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


shamrock134 said:


> I've got my Solo stacked on top of it, but away from the tubes and vents. I need more desk space!
> 
> Hopefully this won't happen to the Lyr, but I managed to cook my last GPU which hit temps in excess of 130C!


 

 Holy Jeebus, what are you doing, baking cookies in your chassis?  Get some fans up in there man.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Thanks for that kw. How do I rule out DC offset? If it's an issue with that, could it originate from my dac's line level out or is it likely a problem with the Lyr?
> 
> I dug up an old thread about noisy pots and there was a suggestion to turn the dial a number of times. After a while the static is less pronounced but is still present (which points to the dial as the cause).


 
  With the Lyr being a relatively new product, unless your atmosphere is highly contaminated with volcanic powder or the like, it is unlikely that such a new potentiometer has a problem.  Not impossible though.  If it does have a problem, it should be covered by the product warranty.
   
  The DC offset, if present, would most likely be coming from, as you said, an external source such as your DAC.  You can easily measure the DC offset if it exists, with a voltmeter.  If you're not sure how to do this, it's probably best if you ask a friend to help you who does feel comfortable doing so.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LPS-LABORATORIES-No-Flash-Contact-Cleaner-2F017?Pid=search


 
  Why would you suggest this product for 34 bux, when what was already suggested is available for 12 bux?


----------



## MrScary

kwkarth said:


> Why would you suggest this product for 34 bux, when what was already suggested is available for 12 bux?




Ohhh yeah I will jump on that for 34.00 I think I will stay with my Detox


----------



## kwkarth

There's a reason to use the F series Caig cleaner rather than a 0 residue contact cleaner.  Read the product data sheet available in the first link I posted.
   
  More importantly, the Lyr is still under warranty.  Why mess with it unless you know precisely what you're doing?  Let the manufacturer take care of it.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> Ohhh yeah I will jump on that for 34.00 I think I will stay with my Detox


 

 Did you mean DeOxit, or were you referring to some 12 step program for wayward potentiometers?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> There's a reason to use the F series Caig cleaner rather than a 0 residue contact cleaner.  Read the product data sheet available in the first link I posted.
> 
> More importantly, the Lyr is still under warranty.  Why mess with it unless you know precisely what you're doing?  Let the manufacturer take care of it.


 
   
   
  Although the Lyr is warranted for 5 years, I'm not the original owner and that warranty is not transferable (already checked).
   
  I'll look into that Caig product first. Is the needle dispenser best for potentiometers, or would you suggest the spray? Thanks again for the help.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Although the Lyr is warranted for 5 years, I'm not the original owner and that warranty is not transferable (already checked).
> 
> I'll look into that Caig product first. Is the needle dispenser best for potentiometers, or would you suggest the spray? Thanks again for the help.


 
  To clean the pot properly, you need to disassemble the amp to get at the pot.  The spray is easier to apply in the case of cleaning a fader.  If the pot is sealed, then you have a problem.  Do not assume you can spray the cleaner into the space between the shaft and the mounting collar.  Most pots today are somewhat sealed there and lubricated with silicon damping grease to make 'em turn silky smooth.
   
  Have you actually contacted Jason @ Schiit and talked to him about this problem?


----------



## pockits

I think the first thing you need to do is contact Jason...


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Why would you suggest this product for 34 bux, when what was already suggested is available for 12 bux?


 

 Why would you suggest a product that is 12 x more expensive per ounce?  Perhaps you have a financial interest in the product?


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Why would you suggest a product that is 12 x more expensive per ounce?  Perhaps you have a financial interest in the product?


 
  Aside from the fact that it's closer to the quantity that he needs, the type of product he needs, and 1/3 the price of what you suggested, gee, maybe you're right.  Sell him the wrong product at three times the cost and then he can share it with 50 of his closest head-fi friends.  Yup, I'm sure your idea makes a lot more sense.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> Aside from the fact that it's closer to the quantity that he needs, the type of product he needs, and 1/3 the price of what you suggested, gee, maybe you're right.  Sell him the wrong product at three times the cost and then he can share it with 50 of his closest head-fi friends.  Yup, I'm sure your idea makes a lot more sense.


 
  Yes, you're exactly right.  Good electrical contract cleaner is such a one dementional produce that should only be used to clean volume pots, and has a limited shelf life.  God forbid anyone would own more the one electronic product or automotive equipment, not to mention residential use, that could benefit from ECC.


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





rope said:


> Yes, you're exactly right.  Good electrical contract cleaner is such a one dementional produce that should only be used to clean volume pots, and has a limited shelf life.  God forbid anyone would own more the one electronic product or automotive equipment, not to mention residential use, that could benefit from ECC.


 
  I see you still have not read the data sheet for the Caig product.  Your current postings are bordering on baiting.  I suggest you drop it.


----------



## dpump

kwkarth,
   
  Thnaks for the info on the Caig product. I didn't know you could clean conductive plastic pots. The only pots I've ever had to be noisy were carbon ones. Couldn't you disconnect your source from the amp and then check the pot for noise? If it's the pot or amp causing the noise, then I think you would still hear it? I just checked a loose Alps pot I have and there are 2 small holes on one side where you can see the wipers as you rotate the knob. Seems obvious that this is where you would spray the cleaner. Should be easy to do after removing the amp cover. Take a cloth and completely cover everything inside the amp so any overspray doesn't get on the pcb or other parts. (Don't ask me how I know to use the cloth for protection).


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





dpump said:


> kwkarth,
> 
> Thnaks for the info on the Caig product. I didn't know you could clean conductive plastic pots. The only pots I've ever had to be noisy were carbon ones. *Couldn't you disconnect your source from the amp and then check the pot for noise?* If it's the pot or amp causing the noise, then I think you would still hear it? I just checked a loose Alps pot I have and there are 2 small holes on one side where you can see the wipers as you rotate the knob. Seems obvious that this is where you would spray the cleaner. Should be easy to do after removing the amp cover. Take a cloth and completely cover everything inside the amp so any overspray doesn't get on the pcb or other parts. *(Don't ask me how I know to use the cloth for protection).*


 
  yup!  Many slide/linear pots used in cheap mixers, are prone to atmospheric contamination.  Fader lube is a good solution for such issues.  Ok, I won't ask.


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the help guys.
   
  Like I said, the static isn't as obvious now (again without music) after turning the dial a number of times. The affected region is from 11 o'clock onwards anyway and doesn't impact my listening experience. I guess it's just my ocd kicking in and worrying about future degradation of sound. It's a minor non-issue at the moment, so I won't pester Jason about it (and as previously stated the warranty is void anyway as I bought it used).


----------



## shamrock134

So far so good with my new Lyr. I think I'm satisfied enough to hold off upgrading any further for now.
   
  Set up is...
   
  PC ---> FUN w/Earth op-amp ---> Lyr w/GE 6BZ7 ---> LCD-2 rev1. (soon to be with Macromolecule)


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> So far so good with my new Lyr. I think I'm satisfied enough to hold off upgrading any further for now.
> 
> Set up is...
> 
> PC ---> FUN w/Earth op-amp ---> Lyr w/GE 6BZ7 ---> LCD-2 rev1. (soon to be with Macromolecule)


 

 Let us know your impressions of the macromolecule cable when you get it. I'm trying to decide between that and the molecule for my lcd2s.


----------



## WNBC

Decided to get some small speakers for my computer rig and ended up with the Swan M200s.  Using the Lyr as a pre-amp to the powered Swans and I'm liking how it sounds.  The volume control on the Lyr is better than the knob on the speakers.


----------



## Mavwong

From transformer (not the cybertron pls)
   

  
  Quote: 





kwkarth said:


> You're quite right, in a headphone based system, tube microphonics are not nearly the issue that they would be if found in a speaker based system, but depending upon the level of microphonic behavior, the phenomena can be bothersome to unacceptable.


 


   


  Quote: 





loevhagen said:


> Microphonic tubes: In a speaker system I can see the problem, but with an headamp - where does the vibrations come from. Headbanging?


----------



## perfect-pitch

shamrock134 said:


> So far so good with my new Lyr. I think I'm satisfied enough to hold off upgrading any further for now.
> 
> Set up is...
> 
> PC ---> FUN w/Earth op-amp ---> Lyr w/GE 6BZ7 ---> LCD-2 rev1. (soon to be with Macromolecule)




Did you get one of the newer units with relay? The Macromolecule cable looks very nice. I'm considering to buy a Norse Audio with 4pin xlr....


----------



## shamrock134

What does this relay do and how would you know if it's there?


----------



## perfect-pitch

The new Lyrs do come with a relay mute, which delays output of the amp for 20 seconds. That's pretty much all it does. It makes Lyr so you don't have to worry about damaging efficient headphones with it.

Check your serial number on the rear. If you got it some days ago it must be a unit with relay.


----------



## shaunybaby

Well time has passed and i think having my lyr for about 2 months has given me the go ahead to say a few things.......
   
  up to now i have had about 200 hours on the lyr so i can safely say she is fully broken in, i had waited about one month from ordering and a nasty hit of 75 pounds from import tax, but i can say that it was well worth the wait on first getting the schiit in my hand it feels very well built and looks rather nice, in another nice little box was the small tubes (didn,t think they were so small) putting them in was a simple case of lining up the pins with the holes and pushing a lil bit after i did this i put the cables onto the back of her and fired the schitt up.
   
  on first impressions i was not thrilled what so ever i thought it sounded just like the headphone amp that was built into the nuforce hdp, i had only had the lyr turned on for about 10 mins and it got not much better, i had work so i left it on and what i came back to was much better!, everything is some how more clean in the sound that the lyr produces i flicked on a few songs that i know well and the guitars had more texture and seemed more life like, the bass of this amp hittings a new low in a good way! it seems to go lower than the nuforce hdp did and has extra layers and is controlled wonderfully, lots of people say that the highs on tube amps don,t go that far but the highs on the lyr just wipe the floor with the nuforce.
   
  My brother is a headphone man as well and was looking forward to hearing what the lyr could do, so i said he can bring around his gear and we will put them agaist each other:

   
  so he brought around his amp laptop and dac and his headphones which are gs1000,s not i,s rs2is, the amp he has is a lehmann black cube linear, our dacs are the same both being nuforce hdps.
   
*so its lehmann vs lyr!!*
   
  on the day i let the lyr warm up for half and hour, and we sort about trying out each others amps and seeing what we thought.
   
  about 10 minutes went by and we both turned to the gs1000,s being the best of the four headphones we had, next we sort about trying to find a song that we both loved and sounded great to test them agaist each other. i know that we should of used more songs but we only had two hours to test the amps, in the end i pulled out inceptions sound track on the special features disc so we had it on blue ray and in master audio, lucky for us my brother had a blue player in his laptop so we played it throught that ( laptop had optical out ).
   
*interesting!*
   
  for me this is where it all got good
   
  The strings on the lehmann were great and really shinned but on the lyr it was full bodied, life like and carryied on into the highs.
   
  We had turns in trying both amps out on this song, on my go i was flicking to the last part of the song then back to front and picking random bits all over the place then i landed on a cracking part of the song it starts at 2:35 in the song and builds up the strings trumpets and everything to where the highs are amazzing and it hit low at the same time it was so great! i tried this part on the lehmann and the highs we great and everything was building but where did the lows go? on the lyr the highs were going and the lows hitted but on the lehmann they just didn,t turn up, i passed the headphones to my brother and he treid this part out as well and his impresstion was that the lyr didn,t extend in the highs like the lehmann but had to agree that the lyr had the bass that the lehmann didn,t.
   
  there is also a great piano peice near the end which on the lyr had more texture which for me ment more life like.
   
  we tried many parts of this song on both amps but in the end the lyr was better in all fields to me but my brother thought the highs were better and more extended on the lehman, but lets put the price into the mix the lyr at 385 pounds after import tax and the lehmann 750 pounds so for the price of the lyr its so kick ass, after having about 2 months now i can say that i really am loving the amp and would hate to go back to just the nuforce.


----------



## chaosallied

^ nice impression you got there! still waiting for my Lyr to arrive so reading this makes me drool a little more =)
  btw, which song from the Inception OST were you referrering to?


----------



## shaunybaby

Quote: 





chaosallied said:


> ^ nice impression you got there! still waiting for my Lyr to arrive so reading this makes me drool a little more =)
> btw, which song from the Inception OST were you referrering to?


 

 ''time'' its track 12 its so amazing!


----------



## chaosallied

thanks, will listen to it with my Compass while waiting for the Lyr =)


----------



## MrScary

shaunybaby said:


> Well time has passed and i think having my lyr for about 2 months has given me the go ahead to say a few things.......
> 
> up to now i have had about 200 hours on the lyr so i can safely say she is fully broken in, i had waited about one month from ordering and a nasty hit of 75 pounds from import tax, but i can say that it was well worth the wait on first getting the schiit in my hand it feels very well built and looks rather nice, in another nice little box was the small tubes (didn,t think they were so small) putting them in was a simple case of lining up the pins with the holes and pushing a lil bit after i did this i put the cables onto the back of her and fired the schitt up.
> 
> ...




What tubes are you running in the Lyr?


----------



## shaunybaby

Quote: 





mrscary said:


> What tubes are you running in the Lyr?


 


  
  hi scary, atm i am using the stock tubes which were ''jj e88cc'' tubes.


----------



## chaosallied

Inception's Time, 2:35, build-up is amazing... tested my HD600+Compass with it, did not notice any crackling or distortion... can't wait to hear my HD600/HD650 with the Lyr with the same track =)


----------



## adydula

shaunybaby...nice write up...amazing how good the Lyr does at its price point with "LOW" cost tubes....
  I have been using low cost GE 6B7Z's and a matched pair of EH 6922's...both are really great...
   
  I get lost in the music and cant believe how good it gets with this amp and the LCD2's..
   
  My source are FLACS via a $150 HRT Music Streamer ii USB dac...been thinking of upgrading to the HRT MS ii +...
   
  or a
   
  Bitfrost from Schiit.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## kwkarth

Quote: 





adydula said:


> shaunybaby...nice write up...amazing how good the Lyr does at its price point with "LOW" cost tubes....
> I have been using low cost GE 6B7Z's and a matched pair of EH 6922's...both are really great...
> 
> I get lost in the music and cant believe how good it gets with this amp and the LCD2's..
> ...


 

 Go with the Bifrost.


----------



## Skylab

In anticipation of my upcoming review of the Schiit DAC, I have a loaner of the Lyr now.  And I must say, I am rather impressed.  It does a very good job with the LCD-2, and even does a very respectable job with the HE-6.  This is using GE 6BZ7 tubes.  It's got a lot more nuance and detail than I expected.  It's quite smooth, which I expected, and has plenty of juice, but I wasn't prepared for the degree of resolution and definition it has with the big planars.  Color me impressed!  I will have more to say on this after more listening, but the initial results are very positive.


----------



## MrScary

skylab said:


> In anticipation of my upcoming review of the Schiit DAC, I have a loaner of the Lyr now.  And I must say, I am rather impressed.  It does a very good job with the LCD-2, and even does a very respectable job with the HE-6.  This is using GE 6BZ7 tubes.  It's got a lot more nuance and detail than I expected.  It's quite smooth, which I expected, and has plenty of juice, but I wasn't prepared for the degree of resolution and definition it has with the big planars.  Color me impressed!  I will have more to say on this after more listening, but the initial results are very positive.




You should hear the Lyr with some vintage tubes its marvelous


----------



## adydula

Skylab....My Lyr is 100 hrs now with both 6BZ7's and a matched pair of EH6922's the 6BZ7's with the gain they provide in the Lyr provide a vast amount of power...and it shows nicely with inexpensive tubes...I have said this so many times, but I get lost in the music, the illusion is wonderful...nuance and detail is stellar for this price point....I have stopped looking for the holy grail...I have it!!
   
  Looking forward for the BITFROST report..
   
  I have a HRT MSii that works well, and was thinking of upgrading to the toally isolated HRT MSii +.
   
  The debate to is one camp thinks USB sucks..ie Schiit compared to SPIDF.
   
  The other camp, HRT thinks that USB Asynch compared to USB is the way to go....
   
  Lets see how the Bitfrost does with the USB and SPIDF solutions.
   
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

I want to try some different tubes really bad. I've also been looking at opamps.

I'm done for.


----------



## adydula

Rebel975...there comes a time to remember its all about the music, not the gear or NOS tubes...but I fall prey of wanting it better like most of us...but in all things there is lots of good stuff at reasonable prices...
   
  I would like to hear some of these $100 and more tubes, but for what I now hear...no way can I justify that price curve. The Lyr with normal new tubes play so wonderfully...talking about matched tubes in the same universe for $30-$50 a pair..
   
  Maybe someone will send me a set of the megabuck tubes so I can be impressed....always have an open mind...
   
  Alex


----------



## Skylab

I have lots of nice 6DJ8 type tubes I will try in there. The 6BZ7 of course IS already a "vintage" tube


----------



## shaunybaby

At the moment i feel like the only thing letting the amp down atm is my headphone and dac. can,t wait for a bifrost!!


----------



## ninjikiran

once my concerto sells I will finally be able to give the lyr is fair shot, I shoulda done it before but now that it comes with better tubes it might of been better that I waited.


----------



## wakeride74

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> once my concerto sells I will finally be able to give the lyr is fair shot, I shoulda done it before but now that it comes with better tubes it might of been better that I waited.


 


  I just sold my Concerto and received the Lyr today. I'll have my LCD-2 r2 tomorrow and will report back. I'm going to pre-order the bifrost as well, my dacs are too warm for the LCD-2, at least they were when I owned the r1 version. I did plug my Nuforce 700x into it just for kicks since that's all I have atm and was very impressed.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





wakeride74 said:


> I just sold my Concerto and received the Lyr today. I'll have my LCD-2 r2 tomorrow and will report back. I'm going to pre-order the bifrost as well, my dacs are too warm for the LCD-2, at least they were when I owned the r1 version. I did plug my Nuforce 700x into it just for kicks since that's all I have atm and was very impressed.


 

 I think you'll be very impressed when you get your LCD-2s.


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> I think you'll be very impressed when you get your LCD-2s.


 


  +1 to this


----------



## MrScary

adydula said:


> Rebel975...there comes a time to remember its all about the music, not the gear or NOS tubes...but I fall prey of wanting it better like most of us...but in all things there is lots of good stuff at reasonable prices...
> 
> I would like to hear some of these $100 and more tubes, but for what I now hear...no way can I justify that price curve. The Lyr with normal new tubes play so wonderfully...talking about matched tubes in the same universe for $30-$50 a pair..
> 
> ...




The older early 60's vintage tubes have unique qualities that the newer tubes just cannot match. the GE that come with the Lyr are an fine tube but there are other vintage tubes that have 3d imaging qualities that the Ge's just cannot match.. but the problem is they are in short supply thats why they are so expensive and soon they will be gone forever


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





skylab said:


> In anticipation of my upcoming review of the Schiit DAC, I have a loaner of the Lyr now.  And I must say, I am rather impressed.  It does a very good job with the LCD-2, and even does a very respectable job with the HE-6.  This is using GE 6BZ7 tubes.  It's got a lot more nuance and detail than I expected.  It's quite smooth, which I expected, and has plenty of juice, but I wasn't prepared for the degree of resolution and definition it has with the big planars.  Color me impressed!  I will have more to say on this after more listening, but the initial results are very positive.


 


  Nice. It may be early days and you may yet to find the best tube for your system, but where would you rank the Lyr at this stage in your top 20?
   
  I hope you get a Bifrost early and post a review around the time it's released.


----------



## wakeride74

Ok, I'm very much enjoying this combo. I don't think I've been this content since I owned my PS-1 and Singlepower amp.

   
  Really loving the leather headband on the new LCD-2's and wow do they love tubes. Listening to some Albert King and Stevie Ray Sessions FLAC from HDtracks and Imelda May's Mayhem, pure bliss (except my dac which is now really showing its shortcomings). Too early for me to provide any detailed impressions but I am very very impressed with what I am hearing.


----------



## Hero Kid

Jesus what did you do to that photo


----------



## jamato8

Almost looks like HDR.


----------



## wakeride74

Just screwing around with an app on my phone, ok it's fixed


----------



## rrahman

I just got my lyr today w/ the 6BZ7 NOS stock tubes.
   
  Compared w/ my concerto, I'd say the differences are more subtle than I expected but I notice them w/ the lcd2 so they are there.  I'd say the biggest difference is in the speed/impact and decay of the diaphragm.  Things sound crisper in treble and bass, especially w/ complex music.  I'd also say that the lyr sounds more transparent, makes my concerto seem slightly dark.  I would also say that it opens up the soundstage slightly.  Overall I prefer it over the concerto for the lcd2, but differences are negligible for my other headphones.
   
  I still debating on keeping it or not.  I got it for my lcd2 and future high impedance headphones I plan on getting (like the t1)..  Anyone have impressions of T1 on the lyr vs t1 on the concerto?
   
  This is my first tube/ss hybrid amp.  How do I know when I need to change tubes?


----------



## Kremer930

We are not used to the try for 14 days option here in Australia but why would you send back a product that you like and say is better than your old amp?  To me, that just seems like causing a financial loss to a manufacturer for no reason?  I am assuming that you bought the amp new.  If you bought it second hand then please ignore my comments.
   
  In my opinion if the amp is that good then why not keep it?  It is that cheap that it gives you a different flavour at least.
   
  In any case the tubes and the amp will take at least 30 hours to burn in and start delivering its best.  Some will say 100 hours.  
   
  We may have to ask Jamato or Scary on the time to replace tube question as I have never got to the point of a tube degrading far enough to need to bin a tube.  I have heard that they decay gradually over a longer time in most cases.  ie you wait ages for them to burn in and sound their best and then wait even longer, 5000-10,000hrs plus in some instances, for the tubes to begin dying.  But with lots  of great music in between.


----------



## vlach

Can i ask what it is about the Lyr that is causing you to debate keeping it? Also, is there anything that the Concerto does better than the Lyr?
  
  Quote: 





rrahman said:


> I just got my lyr today w/ the 6BZ7 NOS stock tubes.
> 
> Compared w/ my concerto, I'd say the differences are more subtle than I expected but I notice them w/ the lcd2 so they are there.  I'd say the biggest difference is in the speed/impact and decay of the diaphragm.  Things sound crisper in treble and bass, especially w/ complex music.  I'd also say that the lyr sounds more transparent, makes my concerto seem slightly dark.  I would also say that it opens up the soundstage slightly.  Overall I prefer it over the concerto for the lcd2, but differences are negligible for my other headphones.
> 
> ...


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





rrahman said:


> I just got my lyr today w/ the 6BZ7 NOS stock tubes.
> 
> Compared w/ my concerto, I'd say the differences are more subtle than I expected but I notice them w/ the lcd2 so they are there.  I'd say the biggest difference is in the speed/impact and decay of the diaphragm.  Things sound crisper in treble and bass, especially w/ complex music.  I'd also say that the lyr sounds more transparent, makes my concerto seem slightly dark.  I would also say that it opens up the soundstage slightly.  Overall I prefer it over the concerto for the lcd2, but differences are negligible for my other headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 Very well stated. I found very similar differences between my Lyr and Concerto (now sold).


----------



## rrahman

So I think the lyr + lcd2 pairing is better than the concerto + lcd2 pairing and I suspect a small majority would agree.  
   
  If I only owned the lcd2 or didn't already own a concerto, then this would be a no brainer and I would keep the lyr.  While the lcd2 is my main headphone, I also have an edition 8, ue superfi.5 pro, hd 595, and mmx 300.  With the edition 8 I prefer the concerto, w/ the superfi.5 i prefer the concerto (this is negligible b/c listening to an iem like this is just silly), w/ the hd595 and mmx300 the differences are negligible.
   
  I expected all of these things when purchasing the lyr, and bought it to complement my lcd2 and anticipated T1.  Which brings me to why I am debating on keeping it.  I am weighing the marginal benefit of the lyr + lcd2/anticipated T1 pairing over concerto + lcd2/anticipated t1 vs the 450 dollar cost of the amp.
   
  This all being said the lyr is still growing on me and the decision is getting tougher by the minute...
   
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> We are not used to the try for 14 days option here in Australia but why would you send back a product that you like and say is better than your old amp?  To me, that just seems like causing a financial loss to a manufacturer for no reason?  I am assuming that you bought the amp new.  If you bought it second hand then please ignore my comments.
> 
> In my opinion if the amp is that good then why not keep it?  It is that cheap that it gives you a different flavour at least.
> 
> ...


 

 The things the concerto does better than the lyr IMO is efficient headphones.  The edition 8, for example, I hear a small hiss w/ the lyr.  I am also terrified of blowing the drivers, w/ the 6 watts rms behind it.  Also my previous post, I said the lyr makes the lcd2 sound very crisp, w/ very improved response, decay and bass impact (which was my only gripe w/ the lcd2, it has powerful, emotional, visceral bass but not the speed the edition 8 offers).  My edition 8 IMO specializes in bass impact and decay and as a result doesn't benefit as much as the lcd2 does w/ the lyr.  I also think the edition 8 is on the brighter side of things, which pairs better with the *slightly darker concerto.  There are a few other ergonomic factors that I don't care about, like power up time, getting really hot, and the concerto's better volume dial.  There is also the crossfeed function that the concerto has that I don't care about either.  The lyr has a preamp out, which I actually do want for when I get speakers.
   
  Quote: 





vlach said:


> Can i ask what it is about the Lyr that is causing you to debate keeping it? Also, is there anything that the Concerto does better than the Lyr?


----------



## jamato8

Going to the tube thread for the Lyr, you will see that there are many options with some being rather expensive but IMO justifiable because a tube is part of the circuit and as such, you are paying for a circuit upgrade, if the tube chosen is better sounding to you. The tubes can add hiss if they have this. Some tubes are much quieter than others. I tried my JH13 Pros with my Lyr and get no hiss, which surprised me. Again, tube choice and the native hiss from the source affects all of this.


----------



## rrahman

Interesting... perhaps my complaints could all be resolved w/ the right tube.
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Going to the tube thread for the Lyr, you will see that there are many options with some being rather expensive but IMO justifiable because a tube is part of the circuit and as such, you are paying for a circuit upgrade, if the tube chosen is better sounding to you. The tubes can add hiss if they have this. Some tubes are much quieter than others. I tried my JH13 Pros with my Lyr and get no hiss, which surprised me. Again, tube choice and the native hiss from the source affects all of this.


----------



## Argo Duck

I have the T1 and both amps (Lyr with GE 6BZ7 atm) - I might be able to find time Thursday or Friday this week to do a _few_ quick listening comparisons...


----------



## olor1n

Anyone know where I can get slightly taller and bulkier rubber feet for the Lyr? Looking for self adhesive feet like those supplied.


----------



## WNBC

http://www.amazon.com/Sorbothane-Hemisphere-Non-Skid-Adhesive-Durometer/dp/B0042UA5WC/ref=pd_sim_hi_6


  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Anyone know where I can get slightly taller and bulkier rubber feet for the Lyr? Looking for self adhesive feet like those supplied.


----------



## milosolo

Good idea. I may give these a try especially since they are available in a variety of sizes. They may even help a little with heat dispersion. I have BDR pucks under my Lyr now.


----------



## Kremer930

I bought some machined aluminum anti vibration feet from Vintage Audio Lab. It is an eBay seller. I think they cost roughly $20 for the 4 feet. I like the look of them and even have a matching set for the Bifrost.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I bought some machined aluminum anti vibration feet from Vintage Audio Lab. It is an eBay seller. I think they cost roughly $20 for the 4 feet. I like the look of them and even have a matching set for the Bifrost.


 

 Can you post pics? How are the feet attached to the Lyr?


----------



## Hero Kid

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I bought some machined aluminum anti vibration feet from Vintage Audio Lab. It is an eBay seller. [...]


 

 Thanks for the tip


----------



## rrahman

Thanks, eager to hear your impressions.
   
  In other news, I decided to keep the lyr.
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> I have the T1 and both amps (Lyr with GE 6BZ7 atm) - I might be able to find time Thursday or Friday this week to do a _few_ quick listening comparisons...


----------



## yeemanz

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I bought some machined aluminum anti vibration feet from Vintage Audio Lab. It is an eBay seller. I think they cost roughly $20 for the 4 feet. I like the look of them and even have a matching set for the Bifrost.


 

 Would love to see some pictures as well


----------



## Shubar

Those feet look pretty nice, might have to buy some.


----------



## Kremer930

I currently have the Lyr stacked on the DacMagic both with the sam feet.  They look pretty cool IMO and should help with cooling.  At present they are just stuck on with some double sided tape but once I get the Bifrost I may stick them on with some kind of semi permanent glue.


----------



## olor1n

Thanks for the pic Kremer. They're too big imo. Are they meant to be that way up?


----------



## rrahman

What tubes are you using that have no hiss w/ the JH13 pros?  How do they sound w/ the LCD2?
   
   
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Going to the tube thread for the Lyr, you will see that there are many options with some being rather expensive but IMO justifiable because a tube is part of the circuit and as such, you are paying for a circuit upgrade, if the tube chosen is better sounding to you. The tubes can add hiss if they have this. Some tubes are much quieter than others. I tried my JH13 Pros with my Lyr and get no hiss, which surprised me. Again, tube choice and the native hiss from the source affects all of this.


----------



## MrScary

kremer930 said:


> I currently have the Lyr stacked on the DacMagic both with the sam feet.  They look pretty cool IMO and should help with cooling.  At present they are just stuck on with some double sided tape but once I get the Bifrost I may stick them on with some kind of semi permanent glue.




That there a bigfoot


----------



## Kremer930

I agree that they are quite big but when you have two stacked together I think that it looks to scale. A bit like the feet on Ray Samuels gear looks too big and yet it just works aesthetically speaking. 

The feet are designed to go up that way. I originally looked for some spikes but they were more expensive and also needed the small base to stop spike damage. The VAlabs feet have two moving halves that sit on a captured ball bearing and have an o ring that helps cushion the sliding parts. 

Once I get the Bifrost I will send another picture so people can see what they think. 

Let me know if others find any cool looking feet?


----------



## livewire

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Let me know if others find any cool looking feet?


----------



## Kremer930

If we use those feet we could end up with entire hospital wards full of people in wheel chairs.  I like my music but not really sure if I am that much of an audiophile!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Plus...trimming toe nails on one pair of feet is bad enough....


----------



## yeemanz

Hrmmm yeh...after I realised that the the valab feet were 25mm tall, I had a feeling that they would be too tall. Given that the Bifrost is 2.25", the feet will be nearly half the height of the Bifrost.
   
  I'm preferring the spikes option atm ,but I guess I'll wait and see how your setup looks with the Bifrost as well.
   
  Thanks for the picture btw


----------



## Kremer930

Yes. I am probably guilty of attempting to make my Schiit rig look a little more on the grand side given it's compact dimensions. My previous amp was a Darkvoice 337 and the tubes alone were almost the size of the entire Lyr.


----------



## ninjikiran

I actually was looking for something to lift my amp off my dac, ended up finding a place that sells such items and while their regular prices are rather ludicrous I was able to get 2in tall magical stone blocks @ $11 a piece.  Well worth it as it provides plenty of  stackable breathing room and if you pay a little more and get them custom, or even the more expensive brass you can have something beautiful built for yourself that has resale value if you get better space accomodations.  I didnt bother as all I needed was that breathing space on a platform that isn't going to transfer heat.  I might get those adhesive feet for my 2 new external USB3 dirve enclosures though, they look perfect for a little extra heat dispersion.
   
  If you have some space, and are willing to spend a little more, B&H seems to have some discontinued stackable shelfs.  Which allow you to build up as many components as you want/need to add.


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





rrahman said:


> What tubes are you using that have no hiss w/ the JH13 pros?  How do they sound w/ the LCD2?


 
  Some early 60's Siemens 6922 gold pin. Nice tubes and the LCD-2 and HE-6 sound great with the combination.


----------



## WNBC

Mos' Definiciously, Siemens thus far have been the quietest tubes I've owned.  I've listening to the Siemens and IEC Mullards for past two months now so I have a good feel for how they sound.  For fun, I should go back and listen to my earlier tubes like the GE 6BZ7, Gold Lions, Bugle Boys, RCA 6DJ8, etc.   
  
  Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Some early 60's Siemens 6922 gold pin. Nice tubes and the LCD-2 and HE-6 sound great with the combination.


----------



## leesure




----------



## Rebel975

Come on, guys... post a link if you're going to post pictures/long descriptions of a product. You're killing me here.


----------



## WNBC

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-721
  I was able to get the part number from the file name of the image, but you are right, a lot of us have never seen these....
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Come on, guys... post a link if you're going to post pictures/long descriptions of a product. You're killing me here.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





jamato8 said:


> Some early 60's Siemens 6922 gold pin. Nice tubes and the LCD-2 and HE-6 sound great with the combination.


 

 Are those A-frames? RCA labelled?


----------



## Rebel975

wnbc said:


> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-721
> I was able to get the part number from the file name of the image, but you are right, a lot of us have never seen these....






You're more clever than I am. I looked at the file name of the photo but never made the connection between "240-741" and a part number. Good job, and thanks.


----------



## swbf2cheater

my lyr should be arriving sometime later this week, ohhh im so excited


----------



## obzilla

Mine landed up here on the North Pole today.
Everything looks fantastic, from packing, assembly, to finish on the chassis.

Burning it in, digesting it, loving it so far.


----------



## milosolo

There's definitely a WOW! moment the first few hours of listening through the Lyr. Enjoy!


----------



## michaelmoon

Quote: 





> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-721


 
  Nice, I need those. TY


----------



## Argo Duck

A few days ago I promised rrahman a few quick comparisons of Meier Concerto and Schiit Lyr with the Beyerdynamic T1. Below is a quick impression  from the first comparison. As this is OT, any further reports I will conduct via PM.
   
  Source was MiniMac-iTunes with bitperfect, WAV encoding. Tracks were two, both from Thomas Diethelm the innovative Swiss guitarist. Album is Shaved (1981), tracks: Theresa & Plants in my head. I spent some time equalising levels, but note this was by ear.
   
  (Concerto) good bass definition, great growl, rasp and bite to bass guitar. Lots of well-balanced upper-mid and treble - nice sparkle, not overstated, harsh or sibilant. In the second track the low-level 'vocal' stands out well.
   
  (Lyr - stock 6BZ7) similar comments apply, but there is noticeably more mid-energy giving a deeper tonality or a sense of hearing more deeply into the notes here. Possibly for this reason, the vocal mentioned above stands out less well. Perceived balance is altered, so that upper bass and treble seem comparatively - but only subtly - understated.
   
  (Overall) The Concerto was sweeter and lighter whilst portraying the full sonic palette in a natural, unforced way. The Lyr had the very slightly fuller mid-range. Indeed, I find the Lyr very much at home with electric blues and blues metal.
   
  Extremely enjoyable with both amps, I nevertheless found the T1 and Concerto to have greater synergy with *these* two tracks. Both seemed to "blossom" with this amp. With other material - e.g. blues rock - I suspect the decision will go to the Lyr.
   
  Quote: 





rrahman said:


> Thanks, eager to hear your impressions.


----------



## xinque

Anyone know if it's normal that when I tap my Lyr, I only hear the ring in my left channel?


----------



## Hero Kid

That is generally typical of tubes, to introduce harmonics from touches/taps.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





hero kid said:


> That is generally typical of tubes, to introduce harmonics from touches/taps.


 


  From what I have read here, and my own experience... is a feature of tubes, so you can sing AND listen to music at the same time, included microphone 
   
  haha nah...
   
  Seems all tubes have microphonic features, so if you tap in the tube or lyr, you will hear it.
   
  Some tubes are more micrphonic than others. In my case, if i'm listening to music is not bad at all, only when is dead silentu


----------



## xinque

I only hear the tap in my left channel though, nothing from the right.  Is that normal?
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> From what I have read here, and my own experience... is a feature of tubes, so you can sing AND listen to music at the same time, included microphone
> 
> haha nah...
> 
> ...


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





xinque said:


> I only hear the tap in my left channel though, nothing from the right.  Is that normal?


 

 I think what is not normal is the fact that you are tapping your amp instead of using it to drive your headphones as it was made for in the first place


----------



## sridhar3

From what I understand, the amount of microphonics you hear is directly proportional to the amount you tap on your amp.
   
  Hence, if you stop tapping...


----------



## WNBC

Dang, I tried this and it worked, cool 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> From what I understand, the amount of microphonics you hear is directly proportional to the amount you tap on your amp.
> Hence, if you stop tapping...


----------



## firecommon

hey guys quick question from a tube noob  
   
  Is it ok if the top of the tubes (right at the base of the pointy tip) is sort of black? Almost looks as if it has been burned?


----------



## WNBC

None of my current tubes are not black or have a burned appearance at the tip (I'm assuming you mean the exhaust tip ).  However, I did have a pairs of tubes in which each went black at the tip and surrounding areas.  I asked the company that sold me the tubes about this darkened appearance and they said it was common for CV2492/3.  A couple days after my question the tubes developed a terrible hum and I returned them for a refund.  The tubes were a couple weeks old.  I've heard that it's normal and not so normal.  In the end I'm not sure.  Guess you have to see if it develops into an issue.  I'm a tube noob too.
   
   

  
  Quote: 





firecommon said:


> hey guys quick question from a tube noob
> 
> Is it ok if the top of the tubes (right at the base of the pointy tip) is sort of black? Almost looks as if it has been burned?


----------



## WNBC

I got my dancing shoes as well today from the same Ebay seller.  I'm not sure which adhesive I'll use but at the moment I'm letting go au naturale.  I like the little bit of height off of the surface.  I should have looked to see if they made them in silver as well.
  
  Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> I currently have the Lyr stacked on the DacMagic both with the sam feet.  They look pretty cool IMO and should help with cooling.  At present they are just stuck on with some double sided tape but once I get the Bifrost I may stick them on with some kind of semi permanent glue.


----------



## firecommon

thanks for the reply WNBC... i did hear some hum on the lyr that was definetely very audible... i then turned the amp off and plugged it into a power strip and the hum was gone. So far no more hum...
   
  any more insight into the 'burnt looking' tubes will be appreciated..


----------



## xxhaxx

Quote: 





firecommon said:


> thanks for the reply WNBC... i did hear some hum on the lyr that was definetely very audible... i then turned the amp off and plugged it into a power strip and the hum was gone. So far no more hum...
> 
> any more insight into the 'burnt looking' tubes will be appreciated..


 
   
  Post an image of your tubes


----------



## ninjikiran

I feel bad for not buying this thing new(I was when I was pondering concerto vs Lyr), the amp works really well with these headphones.
   
  Compared to any other amp I have owned in my life time(solid state world) the kind of heat it generates worries me slightly, its impossible to handle the chassis after having it on for a while, and the volume knob is a finger warmer.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> I feel bad for not buying this thing new(I was when I was pondering concerto vs Lyr), the amp works really well with these headphones.
> 
> Compared to any other amp I have owned in my life time(solid state world) the kind of heat it generates worries me slightly, its impossible to handle the chassis after having it on for a while, and the volume knob is a finger warmer.


 

 It's been said before, but here goes...this is a Class A amp....it is supposed to get hot, Class A amps do. They work full out all the time. Schiit also uses the metal casing as a heatsink to remove the heat from inside (by design), so its not an issue. Just enjoy the tunes.


----------



## Kremer930

wnbc said:


> I got my dancing shoes as well today from the same Ebay seller.  I'm not sure which adhesive I'll use but at the moment I'm letting go au naturale.  I like the little bit of height off of the surface.  I should have looked to see if they made them in silver as well.




Now there's a familiar picture. 

Those particular feet only come in black. They are slightly big but they should look good IMO once the Bifrost arrives and both chassis match and are wearing the same feet. 

Spikes are cool looking too but quite a few brands run them and so I wanted something a little different. 

I do think that the height of the feet will help keep the Bifrost cooler as it will not have the Lyr so close above. 

But as many excuses as I come up with... I really just wanted the look!

Two weeks and counting....


----------



## ninjikiran

Yea, first amp I have had with two mid sized tubes generating this kind of heat.  My SS class A gear has ran hot as well but this is amazingly hot.  I know its normal for tube gear jsut not used to it 
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> It's been said before, but here goes...this is a Class A amp....it is supposed to get hot, Class A amps do. They work full out all the time. Schiit also uses the metal casing as a heatsink to remove the heat from inside (by design), so its not an issue. Just enjoy the tunes.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Yea, first amp I have had with two mid sized tubes generating this kind of heat.  My SS class A gear has ran hot as well but this is amazingly hot.  I know its normal for tube gear jsut not used to it


 

 Yep...Class A tube amp that uses the chassis as a heat sink....it does get quite warm, but don't worry about it...just sit back and enjoy the tunes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Schiit believes in it as they give a 5 year warranty!


----------



## knowhatimean

My Lyr arrived on Friday ... the first thing I noticed was that this little amp has some "heft" to it... (that always inspires some confidence in good things to come, AFAIC!)... I installed the alternate set of tubes I ordered (6N1P) rather than the stock(6B27) tube set thwat I received w/ the amp (I may give these a try after 200hrs or so, we'll see). I put 4 Herbies Audio Lab Tenderfoots on the bottom of the chassis, attached a pair of Kimber Silverstreak (at least, I think they're the Silverstreak) ICs to my Consonance cd 120 linear cdplayer, plugged an Audioquest power cord into the amp & plugged it into PS Audio P500 powerplant, turned on the amp & let it "cook" about 25 or 30 minutes before I tried listenning to anything . My initial reaction was that it sounded (through my Hifiman HE-4's(w/ JMoney earpads) very clean & detailed but it sounded like it was a bit "solid state" rather than "tube". (I expected as much as this isn't my first piece of tube equipment). Having about 15 or 20hrs playback time on the Lyr the treble is begining to relax a bit & I'm starting to notice more space & depth to recordings. It's starting to sound very nice for an under $1000 piece of audio gear... very nice indeed... Oh, I almost forgot to mention a little tweek I added to the volume knob. I went to a Lowes & got a pack of #17 O-Rings. I noticed that even this knob gets a little hot so I've placed 2 O-Rings (about 1/8 to 3/16" apart) on the volume knob (this is why the amp is starting to sound great I believe...Nah, just "schiiting" w/ you(could'nt help myself)".


----------



## Rope

If you don't mind me asking, which J Money ear cushions did you mod to fit your HE-series phones?


----------



## knowhatimean

I used the earpads designed to be used on the Denon D5000 phones . I took the stock earpads off of HE-4s & removed the velour & foam from the disc & fitted the JMoney pads over the discs. Be sure you want to do this as the original earpads are gone at this point. I have no regrets, the phones sound a bit better to me now. I honestly feel the original pads don't really do the phones justice.& I swear they appear a bit more "efficient" as I noticed an increase in low level detail retrieval & they are pretty comfortable.


----------



## Yuceka

Is it possible to blow the drivers of an Ortho like HE-5 with the Lyr? I have been very careful with the volume control and all that but they kind of sound funny now.


----------



## Yuceka

Nevermind. All is fine


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> I used the earpads designed to be used on the Denon D5000 phones . I took the stock earpads off of HE-4s & removed the velour & foam from the disc & fitted the JMoney pads over the discs. Be sure you want to do this as the original earpads are gone at this point. I have no regrets, the phones sound a bit better to me now. I honestly feel the original pads don't really do the phones justice.& I swear they appear a bit more "efficient" as I noticed an increase in low level detail retrieval & they are pretty comfortable.


 
  Thanks for the response.  I own on 5000's, and have stuffed the ear pads.  The stock HE-series ear pads stink, including the new pleather offerings.


----------



## rrahman

This might be a stupid question, but...
   
  Does the Lyr have active balanced ground or is that strictly a solid state thing?


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





rope said:


> Thanks for the response.  I own on 5000's, and have stuffed the ear pads.  The stock HE-series ear pads stink, including the new pleather offerings.


 
  Yeah, I had a pair of D5000 . I could'nt listen to them anymore after listening to the HEs. In comparison (while they are nice sounding) they have a "sound" to them , whereas the HEs are transparent. For me there is no going back to "dynamic" headphones. (I think we are getting off topic here, so I suggest we limit our posts to things related to use with/of the Lyr or start new threads. I'll admit to being guilt of this pretty often , but this amp is deserving of plenty more attention.)


----------



## knowhatimean

I guess everyone is too busy enjoying their Lyrs to be bothered posting...I am really getting into some of my recordings... It's funny, I have an LSO live Sibelius Symphonies 5 & 6/Sir Colin Davis conducting that I'm listening to right now I never noticed Sir Colin was humming along to the score in the first movement. At first I did'nt realize what the slight vocal sounds were until I started picking up the slight rythmic mimicing of the music . Luckily , it ceased (or I stopped noticing it) after the first movement as I started get wrapped up in the orchestration. There are two engineers on this cd as there were 2 different recordings. Of the 2 different recording dates it is a bit easier to hear that the sound captured in the 6th Symphony(Tony Faulkner, eng) is better layered, than the recording of 5th Sym.(Jonathan Stokes, eng). This was my opinion previously , but with the Lyr the differences are a bit more obvious . I'm thinking I really need to get a better SACD player as the more complex harmonic structures of orchestral recordings benefit from higher resolution recordings (as I have a few hundred of that I end up playing the hybrid/cd layer of due to the fact my cd player has a better output section than my Sony SCD-333es SACD player) As I've mentioned before the Lyr is turning out to be one of the best "overachiever" piece of audio gear I've ever purchased!


----------



## adydula

I find that I dont have to strain to hear the subltle things with the Lyr and the LCD2's I have. I am always hearing 'what things sound like' for the 'first time' type of experience.
   
  Listening to a song I said to myself...'hey that really sounds like a wooden stick hitting metal, or gee thats so 'piano' like or gee that vocal sounds so well...real...''
   
  I am continuing to use 2 sets of tubes but the EH 6922's matched pair have stayed in the amp for 80% of the 100+ hours I have on the Lyr...they really are very, very good to date.
   
  I am using a HRT music streamer ii+ USB dac and also have compared to ESS Sabre A/D' setup both are marvelous.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## pockits

New tubes... new sound....
   
  Since I though about changing the tubes...After this new Mullards Gold Pin... I use amperex Orange boy..., and I must say......... HOLLY S.... the change is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo big that... for now on.... Mullard in this baby is the proper tube... Expensive yes.... but better than 80% of the amps on the planet and for sure better than my other amps... by far.


----------



## justie

I just recently bought a second hand lyr from the forums. The seller is in the US while Im in aus. It didnt occur to me then but now i suddenly remembered that the voltage is different. the us being 110 and au being 230v. is it possible to change between the 2?
   
  edit: problem solved. had to get a step down transformer. Jason from Schiit was really helpful. He literally answered my emails in 20 seconds after sending.


----------



## Ezekiel33

Hey guys !!
   
  I plan on changing my current audio gear and I want to know If changing to the Lyr/Bifrost combo would be a real step-up for me!
  I've been using the Audio-gd Fun with my denon d2000 for almost 2 years now (great satisfaction for the price) but I want more.
  I want a gear that can drive the lcd-2 or even the hd800. Is this combo (lyr/bifrost) a huge step foward that could suit me? Or should I just stay with my audio-gd and buy new cans?
   
  thanks!


----------



## WNBC

Lyr will drive the LCD-2 excellently.  Wait another week or two and you'll have reviews on the BiFrost and likely BiFrost + Lyr.  My understanding is that there will not be long backorders on BiFrost but it's been a while since I checked in on the dedicated thread.  Never heard the Audio-gd fun so I can't comment on its sound relative to my own DAC + Lyr experience.  
  
  Quote: 





ezekiel33 said:


> Hey guys !!
> 
> I plan on changing my current audio gear and I want to know If changing to the Lyr/Bifrost combo would be a real step-up for me!
> I've been using the Audio-gd Fun with my denon d2000 for almost 2 years now (great satisfaction for the price) but I want more.
> ...


----------



## HawaiiR

Question: wondering if the Lyr would be a good choice for my ATH-AD2000 that I just purchased. I also have an ATH-W1000 that's available for me to use when I need. I also plan on purchasing a pair of HD800's sometime in the next 6 months or so. I know the Lyr is probably overkill for the Audio Technica's that I mentioned, but I want to have the option to also use the amp for the Sennheiser. Also, I listen mostly to electronica - downtempo, house, techno, ambient...
   
  I have a few other amps in mind, but wondering if this one in particular will do the job for me, or not.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## justie

Just got my Lyr for my LCD2s. Been listening for around 20 minutes and the most apparent thing is that the treble is bumped up abit. Also feels like my LCD2s are more dynamic now. Definitely an upgrade from my fiio e7/e9 (i know..bad comparison but its my first and only amp XD) loving it!


----------



## Sophonax

Quote: 





hawaiir said:


> Question: wondering if the Lyr would be a good choice for my ATH-AD2000 that I just purchased. I also have an ATH-W1000 that's available for me to use when I need. I also plan on purchasing a pair of HD800's sometime in the next 6 months or so. I know the Lyr is probably overkill for the Audio Technica's that I mentioned, but I want to have the option to also use the amp for the Sennheiser. Also, I listen mostly to electronica - downtempo, house, techno, ambient...
> 
> I have a few other amps in mind, but wondering if this one in particular will do the job for me, or not.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 For the three headphones you listed, I'd recommend the Asgard over the Lyr.  The Asgard has a lower noise floor and is great with low-impedance headphones like the Audio Technicas, and I think it pairs with the HD800 just about as well as the Lyr.
   
  With the Lyr, you might experience some not insignificant amount of noise with your Audio Technica headphones, due to their high efficiency and low impedance, and the amp's very high gain.  As for the HD800, I found it to be somewhat more dynamic and bassier on the Lyr, whereas it was cleaner and more detailed on the Asgard -- neither presentation was better than the other, just different.
   
  Bottom line, if you're not planning to go with headphones like the following in the future:
   
  AKG K701
  Orthodynamics (LCD-2, HE-6, HE-500, etc.)
  600-ohm Beyerdynamics (T1, DT880/600, etc.)
   
  I'd go with the Asgard.


----------



## Misterrogers

Good advice Sophanax. Lyr can be used with high/low impedance/efficiency headphones, but it's targeted toward the HE-6's and the DT990/600's of the world. Asgard is a wonderful amp (for the price point) with low impedance, high efficiency cans. 
  
  Quote: 





sophonax said:


> For the three headphones you listed, I'd recommend the Asgard over the Lyr.  The Asgard has a lower noise floor and is great with low-impedance headphones like the Audio Technicas, and I think it pairs with the HD800 just about as well as the Lyr.
> 
> With the Lyr, you might experience some not insignificant amount of noise with your Audio Technica headphones, due to their high efficiency and low impedance, and the amp's very high gain.  As for the HD800, I found it to be somewhat more dynamic and bassier on the Lyr, whereas it was cleaner and more detailed on the Asgard -- neither presentation was better than the other, just different.
> 
> ...


----------



## HawaiiR

Thanks Sophonax and Misterrogers!
   
  I'm actually quite eager to try out a moderately priced tube amp mainly because I never have. I'm hoping to get one that, for the most part, covers my needs on all three headphones that I mentioned. The reality is probably that they won't but no harm asking about it anyway...  I did consider the LCD-2 as an alternative option to the HD800's, but I'm currently waiting for a review from a fellow head-fier who has pretty much the same listening preferences that I do. 
   
  OK, so since the Lyr may not be the right choice for me, what do you guys think about the Valhalla? Again, I'm really bent on trying a tube amp. Keep in mind, this amp that I purchase will be my first dedicated headphone amps, and in all likelihood I'll upgrade at some point in the future. Would the Valhalla be a better option for me to start with than the Lyr? More so than the Asgard?
   
  Thanks for all your help, btw!
   
   
  Quote: 





sophonax said:


> For the three headphones you listed, I'd recommend the Asgard over the Lyr.  The Asgard has a lower noise floor and is great with low-impedance headphones like the Audio Technicas, and I think it pairs with the HD800 just about as well as the Lyr.
> 
> With the Lyr, you might experience some not insignificant amount of noise with your Audio Technica headphones, due to their high efficiency and low impedance, and the amp's very high gain.  As for the HD800, I found it to be somewhat more dynamic and bassier on the Lyr, whereas it was cleaner and more detailed on the Asgard -- neither presentation was better than the other, just different.
> 
> ...


----------



## pseudohippy

Once you get to rollin' tubes you will realize you can really change the sound to suit your preference. I would just get the Lyr, but I dont have a great reason for that other than having the ability to drive headphones you dont even plan on buying. The vahalla I dont believe is rollable actually, so yeah, get the Lyr or something else entirely.


----------



## HawaiiR

If you don't mind me asking, which headphones do you own, what types of music do you listen to on them... 
  Trying to absorb as much info as I can. 
   
  I suppose I could always buy both Asgard and Lyr and do some comparison's.
  Any other suggestions on solid state amps within $500 range? Another head-fier suggested the Audio GD C-2.1, which I'm also considering.


----------



## pseudohippy

I actually use my Lyr with my entire headphone stable, which isnt large. Just look at my sig and click on headphones. Those are all my current owned phones. So long you dont crank the volume I think the Lyr works great with all the phones Ive tried it with. Others opinions vary however and some think it has too much power for its own good. I disagree. Tube rolling is kinda fun, so yeah, get a tube amp, it will bring you many more hours of fun and much more expense


----------



## Argo Duck

To add to Sophonax and Misterrogers' excellent comments, I hear some hum with my Grado (RS1) phones and even my LCD2 (rev1). It doesn't detract from the outstanding performance of the Lyr; however,  it doesn't excel at 'blackground' as do amps such as Asgaard, Concerto etc.


----------



## HawaiiR

Ha... looking forward to more expenses. At this rate, I'll be single in no time...lol. Speaking of spending more money, those Alessandro's are REALLY sexy - how much were they? Hoping to lock in my negotiation for the Lyr later today. 
  
  Quote: 





pseudohippy said:


> I actually use my Lyr with my entire headphone stable, which isnt large. Just look at my sig and click on headphones. Those are all my current owned phones. So long you dont crank the volume I think the Lyr works great with all the phones Ive tried it with. Others opinions vary however and some think it has too much power for its own good. I disagree. Tube rolling is kinda fun, so yeah, get a tube amp, it will bring you many more hours of fun and much more expense


 


   

 It's starting to look more and more like I'm going to need to pick up a few amps and do an do an A/B, test on the headphones I have. You know the more I read these forums, the more I'm starting to consider getting and LCD2. I hear that name mentioned quite a bit more than the HD800's that I'm looking at. 
  Quote: 





argo duck said:


> To add to Sophonax and Misterrogers' excellent comments, I hear some hum with my Grado (RS1) phones and even my LCD2 (rev1). It doesn't detract from the outstanding performance of the Lyr; however,  it doesn't excel at 'blackground' as do amps such as Asgaard, Concerto etc.


----------



## Argo Duck

If you go for Lyr MrScarry (sp?) and MisterRogers (among others) can tell you a lot about tailoring the sound - see the Lyr tube-rolling thread. You will find references and information about Asgaard  early to mid in the recommend amps for LCD2 thread. KWKarth especially had some interesting (positive) comments on its performance.
   
  Trying out several amps at the same time is surely a fast track to learning to hear some of the subtle differences - and even to singledom as you noted LOL! (I hasten to add my wife has been very tolerant and even encourages my obsession. She appreciates good music and excellent reproduction too).
   
  The LCD2 is a remarkable headphone, though it's not for absolutely everyone. IME at least it took a little time (by which I mean hours/days) to appreciate, not an immediate "wow" experience like some phones may be. Convincing for me was hearing classical piano recordings - the piano sounded "real".


----------



## justie

it seems i have a slight hum when my LCD2s are plugged in with no music turned on. It doesnt really get louder as i turn up the volume and its inaudible once music starts playing but I was wodnering if there is a reason for this :/


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





justie said:


> it seems i have a slight hum when my LCD2s are plugged in with no music turned on. It doesnt really get louder as i turn up the volume and its inaudible once music starts playing but I was wodnering if there is a reason for this :/


 


  Could be a ground loop in your system. What's your source? I would disconnect your source and see if the hum is still there.


----------



## justie

unplugged my source but the hum persists. Im currently using a step down transformer so that might be the cause :/


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





justie said:


> unplugged my source but the hum persists. Im currently *using a step down transformer* so that might be the cause :/


 


  Could very well be the source.


----------



## justie

anyway to solve this? i forgot about the voltage difference between aus and us so i had no choice but to get a transformer :/
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Could very well be the source.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





justie said:


> anyway to solve this? i forgot about the voltage difference between aus and us so i had no choice but to get a transformer :/


 

 Fly to Australia and plug it in there?
   
  Sorry.....tough one. Do you have another transformer you can try?
   
  Try a few other outlets in your home too.


----------



## justie

ahh...will try that. Its not that much of a bother since i cant hear it when music is playing. interesting though is that the amp picks up any vibrations around it O_O tapping the tubes result in ringing but moving the cable around makes sounds as well.
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Fly to Australia and plug it in there?
> 
> Sorry.....tough one. Do you have another transformer you can try?
> 
> Try a few other outlets in your home too.


----------



## xxhaxx

Some tubes tend to pick up vibration better then other, Its called microphonics.


----------



## ninjikiran

The amp has been progressively getting noisier from when I first got it from someone.  Not sure whats going on, it was never pitch black but it seems to be getting a little bit out of hand. Using the GE tubes.


----------



## Misterrogers

Since tubes essentially become part of the circuit, degrading tubes can cause this. Have you swapped them out for another pair known to be good?
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> The amp has been progressively getting noisier from when I first got it from someone.  Not sure whats going on, it was never pitch black but it seems to be getting a little bit out of hand. Using the GE tubes.


----------



## ninjikiran

Not yet but these tubes are at most a month and a half old.
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Since tubes essentially become part of the circuit, degrading tubes can cause this. Have you swapped them out for another pair known to be good?


----------



## Misterrogers

That certainly is early to fail, but still - following troubleshooting logic that'd be the first thing I'd check.
  
  Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> Not yet but these tubes are at most a month and a half old.


----------



## ninjikiran

Will do


----------



## shaunybaby

Does anyone have a static kind of sound coming from there amp after about 2 hours listening time, the static comes in short little bursts at first but then becomes a background noise and gets to the stage where its loud and is happening all the time?


----------



## tkteo

No, no such experience with my unit.


----------



## WNBC

Is the background loudness of static dependent on volume?  
  Does it depend on the tubes being used?
  Is it from your source?  Leave your amp on but not connected to a source.
 Loud static sounds problematic.  The Lyr is by no means a dead silent amp when compared to SS amps but I would be worried about loud static.  Whatever low level static background noise I hear is there from the start.  Doesn't get worse after time.
   
  Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> Does anyone have a static kind of sound coming from there amp after about 2 hours listening time, the static comes in short little bursts at first but then becomes a background noise and gets to the stage where its loud and is happening all the time?


----------



## adydula

I hear NO static anytime at any volume position.
   
  I would bet its your tubes...
   
  Alex


----------



## livewire

Tubes.
  Sometimes it doesn't matter their age.
  They can just go south for so many reasons.
  Install a new set before looking elsewhere.
  Is the static only on one side?
  Switch the tubes and see if it changes to the other side.
  That could pinpoint a bad tube if the static follows to the other channel.
   
  I just had this same problem with my Little Dot MkIII amp.
  The tubes were NOS Sylvania with very low hours on them, albeit 1951 vintage.
  I replaced them with an identical second set. Problem solved.


----------



## shaunybaby

I started watching a moive and its started to bring in some static, so i turned the amp off and on again and then it was fixed no static and three hours later still no problem. i hope it will not be an on going problem.
   
  thanks for all the suggestions and help guys


----------



## ninjikiran

I dunno my static randomly decided to shut off.


----------



## justie

I bought a second hand Lyr a few weeks ago. When i first got it i mentioned i had a bit of hiss like hum and thought it was due to the transformer i bought. fast forward a week, i begin to notice even more hum on the left side of my headphones. it was almost a buzz like sound which is very annoying. I tried to open up my transformer and see if anything could be done. halfway through it i realised that i remembered that the buzz isnt always heard and can vary from non to annoyingly loud at times. it doesnt seem to be tube microphonics either. Then it hit me, maybe i should change the tubes. I had 2 pairs of the same stock 6bz7 (cant remember the model number) so i swapped them out. The result? SILENCE! no more hiss!!! HOORAH!!! No background noise = me happy XD anyway, just thought i should mention this in case someone else experienced the same thing. Of course it might just be me being an idiot for not realising that the noise is caused by the tubes. Why the tubes are causing it though I have not figured out yet. Anyway, back to listening ^_^


----------



## ninjikiran

Things quieted down for me oddly enough.


----------



## adydula

Put the old noisey tubes back in to see if the issue comes back to know 100% for sure, if so then trash these tubes!
   
  Alex


----------



## Rebel975

With HE-500's my Lyr is silent up to about 1 pm on the volume pot (ear explosion level).


----------



## justie

i did. in both slots too and i confirmed its the tubes. Stil kept them for soem reason. maybe by some magical force of nature they wont hiss next time butt hey ain exactly pricey anyway. i don suppose we get refunds or get a free exchange if we receive hissy tubes from schiit? XD
  
  Quote: 





adydula said:


> Put the old noisey tubes back in to see if the issue comes back to know 100% for sure, if so then trash these tubes!
> 
> Alex


----------



## Calypso

Quote: 





justie said:


> i did. in both slots too and i confirmed its the tubes. Stil kept them for soem reason. maybe by some magical force of nature they wont hiss next time butt hey ain exactly pricey anyway. i don suppose we get refunds or get a free exchange if we receive hissy tubes from schiit? XD


 
   
  Try putting them in the freezer. Maybe a cryo treatment will heal them
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  Seriously though, some tubes are just not as good as others.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





justie said:


> i did. in both slots too and i confirmed its the tubes. Stil kept them for soem reason. maybe by some magical force of nature they wont hiss next time butt hey ain exactly pricey anyway. i don suppose we get refunds or get a free exchange if we receive hissy tubes from schiit? XD


 

 I ordered a pair of GE tubes from Schiit that turned out to be microphonic. They exchanged them for a new set with absolutely no hassle. Their customer service really is great.


----------



## Jasio

Heya,
   
  I've had my Lyr for about two weeks now and I noticed two issues:
   
  1) I will turn the unit on, let it sit for 10-15 minutes (or listen to music, both apply). At around 10 minutes it will start buzzing, VERY loudly and when I wiggle the AC power cord the buzzing stops if I push the AC cord very firmly into the amp and hold it steady. If I let it go, it buzzes again. I tried different AC cords which looked to have thicker/thinner ends and all of them buzz. However, after an additional 5-10 minutes the buzz will go away entirely and never return until I start the amp up a few hours later.
   
  2) I will randomly get a "buzz" through my headphones- how does it sound? If you've ever heard of that weird buzz through your car stereo just before a cellphone call comes in- that's the exact sound I hear. It's random. I'm not sure if the tubes are microphonic and picking up GSM cellphone transmissions near by (I live in an apartment block)? 
   
  Any suggestions? These aren't "make it or break it" issues- I'd hate to ship the Lyr back to the US and not see it for 4-6 weeks, so if possible I'd like to address the problem locally.


----------



## justie

I had the exact same issue regarding the buzz except movign the ac cord around didnt do much. solved by swapping out tubes. give it a try.
  
  Quote: 





jasio said:


> Heya,
> 
> I've had my Lyr for about two weeks now and I noticed two issues:
> 
> ...


----------



## Asr

I just ordered one today with the 6BZ7 tube set plus a 6N1P set, since I didn't get to hear the amp at RMAF. My curiosity got the better of me and I really want to hear what sort of difference the power output makes for the LCD-2 r2 and upcoming LCD-3. I blame those guys at Schiit for making the amp too affordable.


----------



## Asr

Got the amp in today and set it up with the 6BZ7 tubes. Initial impression: between it and the HeadAmp GS-X in balanced mode (via Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 XLR on the LCD-2 r2), I'm not sure which amp is better - which is probably saying a lot for the Lyr, considering the price difference between the amps. In fact the only thing I've been able to discern so far is that the Lyr has more mid-bass - as in, more impact/punch.
   
  I actually thought there'd be more of a difference considering the Lyr has triple the output power of the GS-X in balanced mode, so not sure what to make of this yet. Will have to do more listening....


----------



## Argo Duck




----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


asr said:


> Got the amp in today and set it up with the 6BZ7 tubes. Initial impression: between it and the HeadAmp GS-X in balanced mode (via Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 XLR on the LCD-2 r2), I'm not sure which amp is better - which is probably saying a lot for the Lyr, considering the price difference between the amps. In fact the only thing I've been able to discern so far is that the Lyr has more mid-bass - as in, more impact/punch.
> 
> I actually thought there'd be more of a difference considering the Lyr has triple the output power of the GS-X in balanced mode, so not sure what to make of this yet. Will have to do more listening....


 

 Looking forward to hearing more on this comparison from you.
   
  Also, another thing to consider (albeit a potentially expensive option) is to try some tube-rolling.  When I first got my Lyr, I figured a tube swap would only produce subtle changes.  Boy was I wrong.  If you can get your hands on a pair of Lorenz PCC88 triple mica (used to be ~$70 per tube on Tubemonger, but sold out quickly), you might be quite impressed with the results.


----------



## WNBC

Yup, you don't have to spend a lot but rolling can make little to huge difference.  The triple mica and Siemens CCa have made it hard to go back and listen to other tubes.  I rolled some old favorites last week, the GE 6BZ7 and IEC Mullards, and I ended up running back to the Siemens.  Not that the other ones were bad but there is transparency, clarity, detail and soundstage that cannot be matched by the other tubes in my inventory and I did try a lot before settling down.  With that there comes a price.  Thanks to MrScary I was able to get a great used pair at a discount but I definitely understand the hesitation to pay full market price.  Hesitation should not replaced by doubt because until one has heard the Lorenz or Siemens CCa one doesn't know about the advantages these tubes offer.  I haven't felt the need to roll in a while, aside from the Lorenz suggestions, because to get much better than what I have I'll need to pay a lot.  
  
  Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Looking forward to hearing more on this comparison from you.
> 
> Also, another thing to consider (albeit a potentially expensive option) is to try some tube-rolling.  *When I first got my Lyr, I figured a tube swap would only produce subtle changes.  Boy was I wrong.*  If you can get your hands on a pair of Lorenz PCC88 triple mica (used to be ~$70 per tube on Tubemonger, but sold out quickly), you might be quite impressed with the results.


----------



## MrScary

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> Yup, you don't have to spend a lot but rolling can make little to huge difference.  The triple mica and Siemens CCa have made it hard to go back and listen to other tubes.  I rolled some old favorites last week, the GE 6BZ7 and IEC Mullards, and I ended up running back to the Siemens.  Not that the other ones were bad but there is transparency, clarity, detail and soundstage that cannot be matched by the other tubes in my inventory and I did try a lot before settling down.  With that there comes a price.  Thanks to MrScary I was able to get a great used pair at a discount but I definitely understand the hesitation to pay full market price.  Hesitation should not replaced by doubt because until one has heard the Lorenz or Siemens CCa one doesn't know about the advantages these tubes offer.  I haven't felt the need to roll in a while, aside from the Lorenz suggestions, because to get much better than what I have I'll need to pay a lot.


 
  Very well said my friend I agree 100% I'm back to running the CCa's for awhile and the Lyr is just singing


----------



## Yoguy

I'm new at this tube rolling thing. Do you have a link where I can purchase a pair of  Siemens CCa?
   
  Thank you,
  Guy


----------



## Misterrogers

Hey Guy. There's a number of Siemens & Halske Gray Shields on Ebay right now. For the most part, that's going to be your source. Expect to pay $300+ for a pair of 'Gray Shields'. I keep stressing that, because the older late 50's - 60's gray shield 'D' and 'O' getters are generally considered the best sonically. Some (MrScary) believe the 'Chrome' shield models (late 60's I believe) sound the same - though I hear slightly less dimensionality. Good luck on the hunt! Wait till you want to track down early Lorenz Stuttgart tubes - they make the S&H CCa grays seem abundant. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





yoguy said:


> I'm new at this tube rolling thing. Do you have a link where I can purchase a pair of  Siemens CCa?
> 
> Thank you,
> Guy


----------



## Yoguy

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hey Guy. There's a number of Siemens & Halske Gray Shields on Ebay right now. For the most part, that's going to be your source. Expect to pay $300+ for a pair of 'Gray Shields'. I keep stressing that, because the older late 50's - 60's gray shield 'D' and 'O' getters are generally considered the best sonically. Some (MrScary) believe the 'Chrome' shield models (late 60's I believe) sound the same - though I hear slightly less dimensionality. Good luck on the hunt! Wait till you want to track down early Lorenz Stuttgart tubes - they make the S&H CCa grays seem abundant.


 

 Thanks! I'll keep an eye out on Ebay.


----------



## Yoguy

[size=11.0pt]I've had my Lyr for a week and a half and I'm very happy with the sound. My HD580 are now my favorite phones while prior to getting the Lyr I did not enjoy them very much on my Head-Direct EF1. The only negative so far has been a slight "buzzing" noise coming, I assume, from the power supply. The noise is not coming through the headphone so it's not impacting the sound but it is bothering my wife since my set-up is in the bedroom. The noise is there even if I remove the tubes. Does anyone else's Lyr have a "buzzing" noise also?[/size]
   
  Guy


----------



## knowhatimean

Quote: 





yoguy said:


> [size=11.0pt]I've had my Lyr for a week and a half and I'm very happy with the sound. My HD580 are now my favorite phones while prior to getting the Lyr I did not enjoy them very much on my Head-Direct EF1. The only negative so far has been a slight "buzzing" noise coming, I assume, from the power supply. The noise is not coming through the headphone so it's not impacting the sound but it is bothering my wife since my set-up is in the bedroom. The noise is there even if I remove the tubes. Does anyone else's Lyr have a "buzzing" noise also?[/size]
> 
> Guy


 
  Just out of curiousity, did you place any "feet" of any type on the bottom of your Lyr or is the chasis sitting directly on shelf or rack you've placed it on ? Transformers will buzz if placed on a solid surface, raising the amp off of the surface allows the vibration to dissapate enough that you should'nt hear it from a few feet.


----------



## Yoguy

Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Just out of curiousity, did you place any "feet" of any type on the bottom of your Lyr or is the chasis sitting directly on shelf or rack you've placed it on ? Transformers will buzz if placed on a solid surface, raising the amp off of the surface allows the vibration to dissapate enough that you should'nt hear it from a few feet.


 

 I used the feet that came with the amp. I'll try placing the amp on a softer surface to see if the buzzing noise goes down.
   
  Thanks,
  Guy


----------



## leesure

Didn't think this was the place to put comparisons between complete sub-$1K rigs...Schiit Bifrost/Lyr vs. Audio-GD/Bottlehead, so I stared a new thread here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/579578/a-comparison-review-of-2-1000-value-rigs-schiit-vs-a-gd-bottlehead#post_7880895
   
  in case you want to read.


----------



## redwarrior191

Quote: 





asr said:


> Got the amp in today and set it up with the 6BZ7 tubes. Initial impression: between it and the HeadAmp GS-X in balanced mode (via Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 XLR on the LCD-2 r2), I'm not sure which amp is better - which is probably saying a lot for the Lyr, considering the price difference between the amps. In fact the only thing I've been able to discern so far is that the Lyr has more mid-bass - as in, more impact/punch.
> 
> I actually thought there'd be more of a difference considering the Lyr has triple the output power of the GS-X in balanced mode, so not sure what to make of this yet. Will have to do more listening....


 


  Asr..any further comments about lyr vs balanced dynalo for lcd-2??


----------



## shaunybaby

on page 35 i was talking about how there was a static sound coming from my amp and by leaving it on for about an hour the sound would then just disappear, last night i was moving around in my chair while listening to music and while doing so the static increased I found that when I moved the usb cable in my dac static would be created (dac is Nuforce hdp), i thought other people might be having the same problem.
   
  looks like buying a bifrost is an easy solution.


----------



## adydula

Shaun,
   
  Have u tried another USB cable? It could be a lousy ground connection or a mechincal fit issue...with the cable or with the connector in the dac or pc.
   
  U can get a cheap USB cable to test.
   
  if u pick up the dac and move it around do u hear the static?
   
  does music have to be playing or does the static happen all the time?
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## MacedonianHero

Ok, so tonight I thought to put my WA22 aside and try my LCD-3s with my Lyr (GE 6BZ7 tubes) and well:
   
  LCD-3 + Lyr = WINNER!


----------



## leesure

Nice to know.  Are the LCD-3's all they are rumoured to be?


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Nice to know.  Are the LCD-3's all they are rumoured to be?


 


 They are fantastic...but then again, so were the LCD-2s. I found the LCD-2s to be revolutionary and the LCD-3s to be more evolutionary. FYI...my thoughts on the differences can be found in the wiki section.


----------



## leesure

Thanks...looked it up.  Nice read.


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Ok, so tonight I thought to put my WA22 aside and try my LCD-3s with my Lyr (GE 6BZ7 tubes) and well:
> 
> LCD-3 + Lyr = WINNER!


 
  x2!!  Especially with Lorenz 3-mica tubes!
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Thanks...looked it up.  Nice read.


 


  Thanks.


----------



## Asr

Quote: 





redwarrior191 said:


> Asr..any further comments about lyr vs balanced dynalo for lcd-2??


 

 I posted a new thread if you didn't see it: http://www.head-fi.org/t/580636/mini-review-schiit-lyr


----------



## Bubo

This is my understanding too, clean reserve power gives your system punch to handle fast rises and falls in the in the volume without clipping and distortion. 
  Quote: 





leesure said:


> It's not about the continuous power.  It's about the power reserves to give you undistorted short term dynamics...a loud sharp snare drum, for example.  You may not need more than say 750mW in 90% of the passages, but then the amp may be called upon to deliver 3W for an instant.  The Lyr, theoretically, would handle that with aplomb, while a 1W RMS amp would clip and distort.


----------



## M-13

Looks like I'm set... now I need to get me some LCD-3s!
  
  Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> Ok, so tonight I thought to put my WA22 aside and try my LCD-3s with my Lyr (GE 6BZ7 tubes) and well:
> 
> LCD-3 + Lyr = WINNER!


----------



## Bubo

TESTING AND EVALUATION
   
I would like to thank everyone for their posts, I will continue to read through them in an effort to educate myself.
   
In the way of comparisons and testing, I found this quote on Headamp's web site. We use to do this with amps and speakers.
   
   
   
  Dark Background  
   
  "We believe that keeping a black background is one of the most important aspects in the design of any amplifier.  We connect a pair of one of the most sensitive headphones in the world to the amplifier in its high-gain setting, and crank the volume up - any level of hiss or hum is unacceptable."
   
   
   
  Design Stability
   
  Some other good tests would be to take several units and rack them together in a dark room on the same power supply and turn them on then wait few minutes then turn them off and observe if all of the units light on and light off exactly the same. If yes the design is stable if no the design is not stable aka no two units sound the same. This can identify design flaws or inferior components and quality control on the cheap. All you need is a dark room and a power switch. All manufacturers need to perform this test.
   
  Sound Quality
   
  My ears may already be blown, but it would be interesting to have a piano tuner evaluate the accuracy of any equipment by running reference piano scales through it. Hitting the right frequency is good, accurately reproducing resonance, and rise and decay is another. Just a thought.
   
  Isolation and Balance and accuracy
   
  If someone has a dual channel graphic equalizer function on their PC as part of a home recording studio software app, you could try pumping piano reference keys through the amp on mono, each channel individually which should show zero on the vacant channel, then both channels at the same time and compare the equalizer channels highs and lows. Should be able to freeze the highs. Electronic keyboard, a good one, may be a good source for the test as you walk the scales. You could repeat the same exercise for multiple volume levels if you really want to ring it out.
   
  Fatigue
   
  Another test would be leaving the unit in a test loop as described above and run it wide open for 24 hours on full volume and compare the before and after and heat. Programming some scales on the computer or electronic keyboard would make a good test pump for the home.


----------



## Bubo

Does the unit have a switching power supply?
   
  If yes, get use to the buzzing, switchers are generally lighter and less expensive but the noise is a problem.
   
  We actually added noise limits on switchers and fans we used for industrial telecommunications equipment because the noise would drive our customers crazy. Especially when you have tens of units in the same room.
   
  If its a switcher and its really loud, call the factory they will probably do something for you.
  
  Quote: 





knowhatimean said:


> Just out of curiousity, did you place any "feet" of any type on the bottom of your Lyr or is the chasis sitting directly on shelf or rack you've placed it on ? Transformers will buzz if placed on a solid surface, raising the amp off of the surface allows the vibration to dissapate enough that you should'nt hear it from a few feet.


----------



## Bubo

Could be a shielding problem with the cable, the DAC or the amp. The metal cases on the DAC and AMP should provide adequate shielding if the units are properly grounded. It's possible that the USB cable is transmitting to the cables connecting the DAC and AMP or even to your headphone cables. I forget the exact specs for C1 conditioned phone lines to prevent induced noise, but I think it is 6 twists per foot. This is why you see after market braided headphone cables. Always get shielded cables. I recently added a Monster Power Conditioner to my home TV and Audio, the Picture and the sound improved on everything. Noticeably better. Unfortunately, to get a real conditioner that stabilizes the power to a fixed spec costs $2000. I'm not ready to cross that bridge yet.
   
  You could also get some 12VDC car batteries (something besides acid if indoors) and run them in parallel making one big 12VDC battery; then put a 12V to 120 VAC converter for a car on the other end of the circuit. You would also need a charger that could keep up with the draw of your systems. This is basically how Telephone company central offices are set up with -48VDC batteries. Check with an engineer before you build this a DYI project so you don't burn the house down. This could be as cheap as $300, plus run it into the Monster system before distributing it to you beloved stereo and TV. Pyle and others make the DC to AC converters (some regulators are probably better than others) and a low amp car battery charger could probably drive the AC to DC for you. This could probably be housed in the garage and an outlet set up indoors to feed the Power Center.
   
  The monster power center shows the voltage, which bounces between 117 and 122 VAC over the course of 20 minutes as the load changes in the neighborhood. My local power loop is the latest and greatest and the same loop as City Hall (which is the power company in my town) so this is a good as its gets on City Power.
   
  I have a friend that designs ICs, I'm guessing he could design this fairly quickly on a napkin.
   
   
  Just finished e-mail exchange with engineering friend, maybe we will make a project out of this.
  Engineer says......................
  "Well the charger - battery - inverter structure has been used before.
Some non-interruptable power supplies used this architecture.
 The inverter is probably the weak link. The sine wave may look terrible
 and you might be surprised that the Voltage varies more than your line
 under varying loads. So, yes you could do it, but you need to be careful about
 about the inverter"
   
   
[size=1.7em] $ 222 Monster HTS 3600 MKII 10-Outlet Power Center with Stage 3 Clean Power[/size]   
  Quote: 





shaunybaby said:


> on page 35 i was talking about how there was a static sound coming from my amp and by leaving it on for about an hour the sound would then just disappear, last night i was moving around in my chair while listening to music and while doing so the static increased I found that when I moved the usb cable in my dac static would be created (dac is Nuforce hdp), i thought other people might be having the same problem.
> 
> looks like buying a bifrost is an easy solution.


----------



## okw3188

Anyone tried the new Audeze LCD-3, would like to hear your comment.


----------



## Bubo

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Anyone tried the new Audeze LCD-3, would like to hear your comment.


 

http://www.head-fi.org/products/audeze-lcd-3-planar-magnetic-headphone/reviews/5815


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





okw3188 said:


> Anyone tried the new Audeze LCD-3, would like to hear your comment.


 

 Just as good as the with the LCD-2 IMO...that is to say: GREAT.


----------



## Asr

Quote: 





bubo said:


> Does the unit have a switching power supply?
> 
> If yes, get use to the buzzing, switchers are generally lighter and less expensive but the noise is a problem.


 
   
  I recently had a look at the inside of my Lyr and it seemed to have an R-core transformer. Not sure what that means about the power supply though.


----------



## livewire

I seriously doubt that the Lyr power supply is a switcher due to it's topology.
  Large transformers and big filter capacitors (as in the Lyr) are not the hallmarks of a switching psu.
  Besides, it is bad form from a design standpoint to include a switcher in the same case as the amp.
  As you know, they can be very "noisy" due to their internal high frequency voltage conversion.
  Not what one desires inside of an audio product.
  (click pic to enlarge)


----------



## koonhua90

Just dropping by to say Hi. Even though this is posted on the Lyr tube roll thread I will re-post it here. I guess ppl should like photos.
   


   

   
  I got the pair of Valvo CCa for $80. If you see this kind of deal don't miss it. I personally think that the stock tubes is good sounding, but it doesn't sound as good as some of the tubes made in the 60s. I am at the height of tube rolling for the Lyr, some of the tubes will be sold in a few weeks' time.


----------



## obazavil

LCD-3? wowowowow I envy you 
   
  How does lyr sounds with LCD-3? any tube changed from lcd2 to lcd3, in case you had lcd2?


----------



## koonhua90

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> LCD-3? wowowowow I envy you
> 
> How does lyr sounds with LCD-3? any tube changed from lcd2 to lcd3, in case you had lcd2?


 

 And I envy those with Stax...I have not heard much of any high end headphones, but I think the Lyr drives the LCD-3 fine. The sound is quite dependent on the tubes you put in there. Out of all the tubes I have, a few that I really like is the Telefunken E88CC (everything is good except slightly brighter sounding), Amperex 7308 (typical Amperex house sound, but better than the younger brother, 6922), Valvo E88CC (very middle ground sound, very pleasant), Siemens E188CC (this one is good, slight colder than Amperex, but a tad warmer than Telefunken, impressive imaging), Mullard CV 2493 (as good as the Siemens, slightly soft at the lows and highs, very smooth, slightly more forward mid than the Siemens). Both Mullard n Siemens have one tube that died, so I either hv to sell them or get one new tube...
   
  And I am currently listening to Valvo CCa, I think for me they sound the best, if not, they are certainly up there. Like the Siemens n Telefunken, they have the uncanny ability to portray the micro details really well, for example you can hear the lip movements of the singer at times.
   
  I do not have the LCD-2, jumped straight to the 3.


----------



## okw3188

If you like both Siemens & Telefunken, then you got to try the Telefunken PCC188 made by Siemens...........wow...........brings up  the best of both world


----------



## ninjikiran

I lost the itch for the R2's, just enjoying my R1's.  No itch for the LCD-3's atm, happy with where I am with the LCD-2's and I can't anywhere near afford them at the moment lol,


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> Just dropping by to say Hi. Even though this is posted on the Lyr tube roll thread I will re-post it here. I guess ppl should like photos.


 
  That's a nice little army of vintage tubes you got there.


----------



## randomstranger

I was tempted to pick up a Bifrost + Lyr combo and was wondering if anyone has found the sound quality to be excellent with the HD 800s.


----------



## gasmd

i thought the lyr was not a good match with hd800s, lacking in the bass department..


----------



## audiophilic

My Lyr is on it's way! Can't wait! I have a question about setup.
   
  I have a NAD C165 preamp and right now my setup is STX->RCA->NAD
   
  If I set up the Lyr:  STX->RCA->NAD->pre-out->Lyr, will it affect the sound quality?
   
  The NAD's pre out is 75 ohms. The other option is having a splitter to connect both, the preamp and the Lyr to the STX.


----------



## leesure

Running out of the NAD's pre out puts another volume pot in the chain.  If you don't have a tape deck hooked up, I'd suggest using the NAD tape out.  This will be a fixed line level out so you can control the volume just at the Lyr. 
   
  I'd love to see Jason make a future generation Lyr that allows the user to select whether the RCA outputs are fixed, bypassing the volume as a pass thru, or variable for use as a preamp.


----------



## audiophilic

Quote: 





leesure said:


> Running out of the NAD's pre out puts another volume pot in the chain.  If you don't have a tape deck hooked up, I'd suggest using the NAD tape out.  This will be a fixed line level out so you can control the volume just at the Lyr.
> 
> I'd love to see Jason make a future generation Lyr that allows the user to select whether the RCA outputs are fixed, bypassing the volume as a pass thru, or variable for use as a preamp.


 


  Thanks leesure! I noticed you have the bifrost in your inventory. How is it? Is it worth the money? I am using the STX as the DAC right now and imho, i couldn't distinguish the STX and the Cambridge audio dacmagic in terms of SQ.


----------



## leesure

I'm not familiar with the STX, but I've been quite happy with the Bifrost. It's very detailed...some say too much so...but that pairs nicely with the warmer Lyr; especially with the Mullard tubes I use.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





gasmd said:


> i thought the lyr was not a good match with hd800s, lacking in the bass department..


 


  Actually I found the bass response with the Lyr/HD800s one of its biggest attribute. The 6 moons review stated the same....might be the tubes you're running.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


macedonianhero said:


> Actually I found the bass response with the Lyr/HD800s one of its biggest attribute. The 6 moons review stated the same....might be the tubes you're running.


 

 I wonder if the Matsu$h1ta tubes would be good with the HD800.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Quote:
> 
> I wonder if the Matsu$h1ta tubes would be good with the HD800.


 

 And those are the best tubes for bringing out the bass on the Lyr I've found to date...so if you want MOAR bass, that seems the best way to go.


----------



## kyoshiro

i'm still waiting for a schiit shipment to reach hong kong so I can buy my Lyr and Bifrost!


----------



## mrksgrn

Dedicated thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/586931/lyr-faint-staticky-high-pitched-noise-issue#post_7998567
   
  My setup is BiFROST > LYR > LCD-2
   
  Having gotten the Lyr recently, I noticed that when there is no music playing, there is a faint, static-like high-pitched noise in both channels that appears and disappears periodically at around one minute intervals. Sometimes this noise can be heard in the background of quiet tracks. 
   
  I have made sure there are no ground loops, and that the tubes (GE 6BZ7) are seated correctly (I even switched them), and isolated the problem to the Lyr. The noise can be heard without any input on the Lyr as well. 
   
  Has anyone experienced this problem before? I suspect it's bad tubes but it's interesting that it's happening on both channels which point to the Lyr itself.
   
  All comments are welcomed. Aside from this issue, I'm really enjoying this setup.


----------



## cactus_farmer

Is the Schiit an auto-biasing amp, or do you need to bias it yourself?
   
  What does the manual say about changing the tubes and biasing?


----------



## ninjikiran

same thing happens to me with the GE tubes, the original JJ stock tubes offer a relatively black background.
   
  I got the GE tubes replaced once, and same issue.  But even with a little noise they add quite a bit of life so I deal with it.
   
  I might go ahead and buy a second set since my warranty on the tubes are already up and the investment is minimal.  See if I get lucky
  
  Quote: 





mrksgrn said:


> Dedicated thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/586931/lyr-faint-staticky-high-pitched-noise-issue#post_7998567
> 
> My setup is BiFROST > LYR > LCD-2
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





> Is the Schiit an auto-biasing amp, or do you need to bias it yourself?
> 
> What does the manual say about changing the tubes and biasing?


 
   

  
  I think its auto biasing.


----------



## Lorspeaker

sorry noob question....and i didnt go thru the 139 pages..
  anyone has difficulty pulling out the tubes on the LYR??
  whats a good way to get it out..?
  i cant get a good hold on the deeply seated tubes.
  humphhhfff


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> sorry noob question....and i didnt go thru the 139 pages..
> anyone has difficulty pulling out the tubes on the LYR??
> whats a good way to get it out..?
> i cant get a good hold on the deeply seated tubes.
> humphhhfff


 


  There are several ways and Im forgetting most but here are a couple.
   
  1. Buy a set of socket savers from tube monger. Search them in the tube rolling thread or just find them on the tubemonger site. They make the tubes site much higher out of the case of the Lyr.
   
  2. If you notice mail people or just people that sort paper they have these little rubber grips that fit on the tip of their finger. Like a little rubber finger condom. They work well. My wife brought me a pair from her work, not sure where to get them.
   
  3. They have little sock type devices that are rubbery looking to me, never had one though, that fit over the tube and probably have some suction as you pull up and they apparently remove the tubes well. Ive never had one so I dont know much about it, just pics in the tube rolling thread. Lots of ideas over there btw.


----------



## Lorspeaker

thanks pseudohippy...
  thats a heap of sugguestions, i go find some rubbertubes for my big fingers..thanks a million.
  a very blessed NEW YEAR to u and all at home!


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





lorspeaker said:


> thanks pseudohippy...
> thats a heap of sugguestions, i go find some rubbertubes for my big fingers..thanks a million.
> a very blessed NEW YEAR to u and all at home!


 


  No problem, I did do a search for rubber finger tips and yeah, they are cheap and readily available. This tube glove looks cool though http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=072-899&AID=1457538&PID=5567334&SID=skim23608X823435X721ee33ff356bd29bcc81834dff1da0a
   
  The socket saver is the coolest way to go by far. It is nice to see the glowing tubes. They sit a perfect height out of the case. Plenty of pics in the tube rolling thread also.
   
  http://www.tubemonger.com/NOVIB_Socket_Saver_with_Vibration_Red_B9A_NOVAL_p/novib.htm
   
  Yup, and Happy New Year to you and yours also!


----------



## Lorspeaker

i taken a look, yes i will definitely get the socket saver, this LYR is gonna stay with me for a lonnnnng time..
  the sound coming out of this gem of a hybrid is the best...
   
  ....until the next BEST is heard.lol
   
  many thanks once again, i am new to this thread...i guess u are the resident pro here. cheers..need to rush to worrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk for now. sighhh.


----------



## audiophilic

Just got my Lyr. So far I'm blown away by the power this monster has! Straight off, I noticed increase in bass extension and quantity. Yes even on the K701s! It is a warm sounding amp; soundstage is wider than my STX and instrument separation is better, not night and day but it's definitely noticeable.  The denon d2000s sound even better. I didn't know they can produce so much controlled bass at high volumes. Just amazing! I can finally bear the applause at the end on Hotel California (live version) by Eagles.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote:


lorspeaker said:


> sorry noob question....and i didnt go thru the 139 pages..
> anyone has difficulty pulling out the tubes on the LYR??
> whats a good way to get it out..?
> i cant get a good hold on the deeply seated tubes.
> humphhhfff


 

 If you're looking for a quick way to do it right now without spending money and/or waiting for stuff to get to you, take a chunk of the foam out of the box in which the stock Lyr tubes were packaged, fold it and use the foam to grab the visible part of the tube.  Then rock it back and forth while applying gentle traction, and it should eventually pop out.


----------



## Lorspeaker

ooo thanks srihar3, will give it a go tonite ! gonna rock it out!!
   
  yupz the LYR drives the denons crazygood!!!!! can feel the perspiration dripping off the singer..lolz


----------



## Asr

Another way to help remove the tubes is by using a piece of masking tape. This technique was recommended to me by Jason @ Schiit when I asked about it.


----------



## Vargtass

My Lyr suddenly started acting weird here after a couple of days without use. 
   
  Using socketsavers and 6922's from tubemonger. My routine is to always power the amp, dac and wait about 30 seconds before I plug in my headphones (LCD-2 rev 2). Today, I heard a sort of "pop"-sound, and really freaked out, seeing I've already had to return the LCD-2's for repair due to botchy serial number / element issues. 
   
  So - I thought that was what had happened again. Fortunately I still have my other amp (Matrix Quattro SS) here and checked with it, and to my surprise, I still had stereo sound, alas something is wrong with the Lyr, not my LCD-2's. 
   
  EDIT - Just wiggled both tubes, wiggled signalcables and unplugged / replugged power, and now both channels are delivering sound, but I have a distinct humming-sound I've never heard from the amp before - even at zero volume. 
   
  I've tried swapping tubes, signal cables AND taking out my socketsavers and just use sockets on the amp with both original tubes and new ones from tm. I've had no luck, and still have the hum, sadly. At least I have my Quattro as backup, but I really LOVE the sound of the Lyr and want it back :/ I'm pondering if this is a ground-issue, but my Quattro got no hum whatsoever. I really doubt it's the tubes, seeing as I've checked two pairs. It could be, I guess, but that would be really bad luck, wouldn't it?


----------



## WNBC

What happens when you plug the Lyr into a different socket in a different room?
   
  Was the pop a one time event?
   
  In the end, it may be best to email Jason at Schiit describing your symptoms but definitely try determining if it is a ground issue.  I had an issue with one room and ended up getting an isolation transformer to help clean up the hum.  The hum was annoying even at zero volume.  Now it is pretty quiet up to 3 o'clock on the volume knob.  The hum was definitely more prominent in the tube amp than in my other SS amps so I don't find it surprising you couldn't hear it in your Quattro.  Like you, it came out of the blue.  However, no popping with the Lyr.  When I had a Valhalla there was a low level mechanical pop when I turned it on and off.  I just figured it was the caps charging and discharging quickly, never affected sound so I never felt the need to have it looked at.  My newer SS amp, Violectric V200, also has a low level pop as well.  So does my Onkyo receiver and my vintage amps.  Some of it probably has to do with the protection circuitry.  I have an older Lyr without the delay relay.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





vargtass said:


> My Lyr suddenly started acting weird here after a couple of days without use.
> 
> Using socketsavers and 6922's from tubemonger. My routine is to always power the amp, dac and wait about 30 seconds before I plug in my headphones (LCD-2 rev 2). Today, I heard a sort of "pop"-sound, and really freaked out, seeing I've already had to return the LCD-2's for repair due to botchy serial number / element issues.
> 
> ...


----------



## adydula

Vargtass,
   
  Check to make sure the nut behind the volume know is tight and has not come loose.  Some people have seen this, get hum when touching the vol knob, I expereinced this once, I took off the vol know and tightened the nut holding the pot.
   
  Been solid for many months now across many tubes.
   
  If the original tubes exhibit a hum....but didnt before then something has to have changed.
   
  Give Jason a call etc...
   
  Best of Luck!
  Alex
   
  Edit: To listen I make sure the volume is all the way down....turn on the Lyr, wait a few seconds....minutes while I get the source pc up and running etc....then plug in my LCD2's R2 ...making sure the volume is all the way down...start a song then slowly crank the volume knob up. To shutdown, I stop the song, turn the volume all the way down, remove phones, shut off amp...I never get any pops or surprises this way.


----------



## Vargtass

I'm in contact with Jason as we speak (great and smooth service!). 
   
  I'll try it in some different locations in my apartment, but I've been using the amp for weeks from the same power-source without any hum up to now, so I doubt it'll make any difference swapping. Will try, tho. Thanks for all the input so far, and I'll check the volume knob. Can I just pull it off gently to check the screw behind it? I'd rather not open it up and void warranty -  don't feel I'm that capable with stuff like this  
   
  Ah oh and yeah, I've always waited for the amp to turn on and warm up with dac and music on before connecting my LCD-2 rev 2's, and I've always unplugged them again before I've turned the amp off (just to be safe). It's not hard due to the 1/4" to xlr-plug converter I have running with the Q-cables. It was just that today, when I plugged them in I got this really nasty noise from them, just as they were connected to the Lyr. Freaked me out like crazy because I've had to have one element replaced some months ago due to a pop and the element just dying (not with the Lyr, do mind). 
   
  Again, thanks for all your help tho. I'm certain I'll get this fixed, either by myself, the forum or Schiit


----------



## adydula

The volume kob is held on to the shaft of the volume poteniometer via a small screw in the knob, look at the knob u will see a small hole where the fastening screw is...its held on via this small setscrew....you will need the correct size allen wrench to untighten it to slide off the volume knob, dont try to pull it off!!
   
  Once the knob is removed will see the large 'nut' and washer...make sure this nut is tight.
   
  Mine was not loose, put I tightened it a bit anyway.
   
  The hum I had disappeared and has not come back since then...but the hum I experienced was when I actually touched the volume knob...
   
  Tell Jason hello!
   
  Alex


----------



## Vargtass

I've got the hum in different rooms in my appartment, meaning different fuses, excluding a hypothesis about the power just where I'm sitting.  
   
  I've also been over the fact that I'm using socketsavers, but the pins on them look 100% like the ones on my tubes, and I never intended to use anything but the approved tubes for the Lyr. 
   
  I'm just gonna send it back tomorrow - at least I've got the original packaging so shipping won't be too hard. It will just suck because it'll take a while and shipping from Norway is silly expensive. UPS quoted me 350 usd to ship it to Schiit. The norwegian postal service is cheaper at around 100-150 usd. Let's just hope it's a guarantee-issue and not me having screwed up something (even though I still cant see how I would have done that, using both approved socketsavers and tubes + having had the amp run great for 75ish hours). I'ts probably just bad luck, and that's just how life is some times  
   
  Cheers for all your input, and I refuse to say anything bad about Schiit despite all of this. They're sporting GREAT service, and I really appreciate it. I really wish I had a store I could go to and cry / yell, but Europe / Norway is so tiny it just doesn't add up anyways, so back it goes tomorrow  
   
  Just to be clear on the volume knob - I can clearly see the whole for a screw, but I can't with my bare eyes SEE the screw, even when using a flashlight. I can see "something" deep down in the screw-hole. Could that be it? I've sort of packed the amp into its box, taken out the tubes and packed it all up now tho. That, plus the amp DID make weird noises and DID lose sound on one channel earlier today - which I really doubt could be because of the volume-knob. Also, it's been working flawlessly for 50ish hours so far, without any hum, with my hand on the knob or not. 
   
  Meh, I'll just ship it back tomorrow and wait for it to get back to me :/


----------



## WNBC

Sorry to hear that.  Man, that's quite a bit for shipping.  Because you got it to work for 50 hours I guess you already know whether or not they sent you the 115V version by accident.  By accident I was a 230V Valhalla.  It worked fine for an hour then I had the channel imbalance.  After a couple emails we figured out I had the international version.  Good luck

  
  Quote: 





vargtass said:


> I've got the hum in different rooms in my appartment, meaning different fuses, excluding a hypothesis about the power just where I'm sitting.
> 
> I've also been over the fact that I'm using socketsavers, but the pins on them look 100% like the ones on my tubes, and I never intended to use anything but the approved tubes for the Lyr.
> 
> ...


----------



## adydula

Wow thats a LOT for shipping!!!!
   
  I hope it works out and you get a working Lyr soon.
   
  The hole that you looked in the volume knob is where the little screw is that has to be loosened to get the volume knob off to inspect the locking nut on the actual volume potentiometer.
   
  But if the amp was doing these other things, like dropping a channel maybe there is more that just a loose pot here.
   
  Due to the time and cost it would be nice to get a new set of tubes sent to you to see if indeed the tubes are causing the issues.
   
  If this third, new set fixed the issues you wouldnt be out the cost of shipping and time etc...
   
  Either way I would think about asking Jason for an extra set of tubes, there really cheap from him and you would have them just in case.
   
  All the best
  Alex


----------



## HK_sends

Vargtass,
   
  I may have missed it in the posts, but did you go back and try the tubes _without_ the socket savers?  If not, you might just want to check those first.  It's best to try to eliminate all possible causes.
  And if you've already done it, then please disregard everything after hello...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## WNBC

What if hello was at the end?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Vargtass,
> 
> I may have missed it in the posts, but did you go back and try the tubes _without_ the socket savers?  If not, you might just want to check those first.  It's best to try to eliminate all possible causes.
> And if you've already done it, then please disregard everything *after hello...
> ...


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


wnbc said:


> What if hello was at the end?


 
  Exactly!


----------



## WNBC

Touche, well-played 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> Quote:
> Exactly!


----------



## Vargtass

Tried both with and without socketsavers. They were an obvious source of error - but it seems they're legit and not the source of this (but who knows). I'm shipping it back with the original tubes to see if there is any damage to them. 
   
  Shipping with the Norwegian postal service is about 100 usd probably, which is far less than the big foreign companies. I have no idea why they would charge me over 300 usd to send it, but they do and I guess I'm just going to stay away from that 
   
  Jason was extremely helpful and even offered to send me another Lyr as soon as I sent him the tracking number for my defect Lyr. It's in tip top shape otherwise tho, so it can probably just be fixed and sent out to someone again. 
   
  All in all I've just had a hit of bad luck (my streak is endless ) but it'll all be ok in the end


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Does the Lyr pair up well with 600ohm Beyers? I know it has plenty of current for Orthos and the like, but I'm worried about voltage swing.


----------



## adydula

Cool, thats good customer service!!
   
  Socket savers...oh boy....I have stayed silent on this one.
   
  I would NEVER use them, never, never, never....
   
  With all the anal rentitive folks here worried about things that can affect their sound....this is the last thing I would not ever use.
   
  I understand what folks are trying to do...but the tubes are not that hard to take out.
   
  Adding another set of mechanical junctions,etc...just isnt a good idea at all.
   
  This amp is designed to take the heat, has a 5yr warrenty etc...
   
  If you are a NOS tube swapper, I would think after a few months, weeks of swapping out what 10-20 times...that you would be back to listening to your music...and the swapping is over for the most part.
   
  Happy New Year!
  Alex


----------



## adydula

*Mad...from Jason:*
   
   
*If you were going to stick with the Beyer 600 ohm headphones, we'd definitely have you look at Valhalla--it's an amazing match for those headphones.

 But if you're looking at the LCD-2s in the future as well, Lyr is a do-all amp for both the Beyers and orthodynamics. Valhalla is a no-go with orthos. Asgard does a nice job with both 600 ohm Beyers and LCD-2s as well, but Lyr is definitely a step up.

 All the best,

 Jason Stoddard
 Co-Founder*
   
*Happy New Year*
*Alex*


----------



## HK_sends

Quote:


adydula said:


> Cool, thats good customer service!!
> 
> Socket savers...oh boy....I have stayed silent on this one.
> 
> ...


 
  It depends on how many sets of tubes you rolled...then how many different types other folks introduced you to.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I have had no problem with socket savers personally, but I have to admit they aren't really necessary, just convenient.  Truth is, when I go to pull the tubes, the savers come out with them anyway so I am pretty sure they arent saving anything.  They do however make it more convenient for the tube dampers I use (and those do affect the sound..in a good way).
   
  All is IMHO and YMMV...
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Does the Lyr pair up well with 600ohm Beyers? I know it has plenty of current for Orthos and the like, but I'm worried about voltage swing.


 

 It'll drive them without breaking a sweat.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





macedonianhero said:


> It'll drive them without breaking a sweat.


 


  I think he is concerned about the synergy


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I think he is concerned about the synergy


 

 Its quite good with my T1s FWIW.


----------



## SeaHawk

Received my new Lyr just before the end of the year (hey, that rhymes,, I guess I do that at times..) and noticed it didn't come with an RCA cable (mentioned in passing in the "owners manual" and referred to in previous posts).  Did they quit including this or just left it out of mine?
   
  (Not that it really matters since it would be tossed aside for something a bit more resilient in any case)


----------



## Rebel975

They probably just forgot. It was just a Monoprice cable anyway.


----------



## WNBC

Mine came with a RCA to mini cable but not a pair of RCA interconnects for attaching to a DAC.  Mine was purchased in April 2011 so maybe they've gone away from the RCA to mini in favor of the RCA interconnects.
  
  Quote: 





seahawk said:


> Received my new Lyr just before the end of the year (hey, that rhymes,, I guess I do that at times..) and noticed it didn't come with an RCA cable (mentioned in passing in the "owners manual" and referred to in previous posts).  Did they quit including this or just left it out of mine?
> 
> (Not that it really matters since it would be tossed aside for something a bit more resilient in any case)


----------



## Rebel975

^That's what mine came with too. One RCA to 1/8" cable.


----------



## leesure




----------



## jazzfan

^Outstanding photo!!!


----------



## leesure

Quote: 





jazzfan said:


> ^Outstanding photo!!!


 


   
  Thank you very much!


----------



## Likui

I feel JH 11 pro works very well with the schiit Lyr, really boost up the bass. Anyone else has that set up?


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





likui said:


> I feel JH 11 pro works very well with the schiit Lyr, really boost up the bass. Anyone else has that set up?


 


  I dont think that I would be brave enough to try custom iems with an amp as powerful as the Lyr.  I tried my TF10's once and they sounded great but the noise floor was quite high due to the sensitivity and low impedance.
   
  But I have noticed that my DT1350 get some strong bottom end from the Lyr.


----------



## Naim.F.C

Any opinions on the Bifrost+Lyr for the T1's? Especially compared to the Asgard? Also, how easy or hard is it to swap tubes, I've never had to change any before, but wanted a warmer, fuller or smoother sound with the Lyr so thought swapping to different tubes might help?
   
  Lastly (sorry for all the questions), I'm going to assume that using the Lyr with any IEM is bad news? Westone 4, MG6pro etc.


----------



## M-13

Check out the Lyr tube rolling thread. Many have reported, including myself, that the Lyr sounds like a whole new amp with the right tube. Much better than I could have imagined or ever hoped. The stock GE 6BZ7s don't do it any justice at all... IMO, YMMV, etc, etc. Telefunken from the 60s have really turn my Lyr into a BEAST 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Oh yeah, and swapping tubes is pretty easy once you start using a wide rubber band, or get a girlfriend with small hands. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can your Weston 4 handle 6 WATTS of current? if not then don't do it!
  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> Any opinions on the Bifrost+Lyr for the T1's? Especially compared to the Asgard? Also, how easy or hard is it to swap tubes, I've never had to change any before, but wanted a warmer, fuller or smoother sound with the Lyr so thought swapping to different tubes might help?
> 
> Lastly (sorry for all the questions), I'm going to assume that using the Lyr with any IEM is bad news? Westone 4, MG6pro etc.


----------



## Argo Duck

I don't spend an awful lot of time listening to my T1s, but in a short followup note in my MiniMax/Stagedac/Bifrost comparison I thought the combination you ask about sounded pretty good, FWIW.
   
  Because I was short of time (still am!) I auditioned only two tracks. Bifrost/Lyr (with stock 6BZ7 btw) was better on John Paul Jones' Bass n drums; Stagedac/Concerto better on the more sparse, slow 'Lydia' (a New Zealand pop/rock number).
   
  As M-13 already said, and knows even better than me, tube-rolling makes a big difference to the Lyr! 
  
  Quote: 





naim.f.c said:


> *Any opinions on the Bifrost+Lyr for the T1's?* Especially compared to the Asgard? Also, how easy or hard is it to swap tubes, I've never had to change any before, but wanted a warmer, fuller or smoother sound with the Lyr so thought swapping to different tubes might help?
> 
> Lastly (sorry for all the questions), I'm going to assume that using the Lyr with any IEM is bad news? Westone 4, MG6pro etc.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





likui said:


> I feel JH 11 pro works very well with the schiit Lyr, really boost up the bass. Anyone else has that set up?


----------



## detoxguy

I just noticed that it looks like Schiit is shipping backorders for the Lyr again. I sure hope mine will be sent out tomorrow...


----------



## jronan2

I need some rubber feet for my Asgard. Since it's bascally the same thing as the Lyr I figured I can ask here. I'm looking for something rubber and better quality than the cheapy ones that are supplied with all Schiit amps. Anyone know where I can find some?


----------



## Kremer930

Check out your local hardware store for rubber or silicon feet options or search eBay for cones for something more flashy.


----------



## WNBC

Or Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U6ZDU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&m=A1EPE8IE7JPHY4
  They come in different sizes too.

   
   
  Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I need some rubber feet for my Asgard. Since it's bascally the same thing as the Lyr I figured I can ask here. I'm looking for something rubber and better quality than the cheapy ones that are supplied with all Schiit amps. Anyone know where I can find some?


----------



## koonhua90

Those feet are called sorbothane feet. Search it up on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sorbothane+feet&_sacat=0&_odkw=sorbothane+feet&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

 I am using this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Sorbothane-4-x-25mm-Isolation-Pods-Domes-Feet-/250741509961?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a615bcf49#ht_885wt_1139) for the Schiit Lyr, but I guess it might be bigger than what you need for the smaller Asgard.


----------



## leesure

Ummm...the Lyr and the Asgard are exactly the same size.


----------



## detoxguy

So close yet so far away. I finally pulled the trigger on a Lyr to pair with my HE-500s and Canada Post is dragging this wait out way too long....
 I've been obsessively refreshing my tracking yet for some reason they just aren't leaving the Vancouver airport to make their way to me. Here's hoping I get to hear this amp soon. USPS International Express said 3-5 business days...today was day 6 and they are still 2000 km away hehe
   
  Updated: Item is out for delivery. 
  I love those words


----------



## detoxguy

I have my Lyr and just a quick question. I bought to pair with my HE500 and notice a hum starting at approx. 2:00 on the volume pot. It is dead quiet to that point and even at it's loudest it's not bad at all. This is without sources powered on. I was just wondering if this was normal or represents the ground loop issue and whether I should bother trying to figure it out.
   
  The sound improvement with the added power is wonderful. I was using the MAD Ear+ HD which is like audio gold with my RS1i but didn't have the raw power recommended for orthos. Considering my budget I feel I'm sitting on a great setup.


----------



## Rebel975

That's normal. You'll never get anywhere near that level in normal use anyway, unless you have serious hearing problems. I listen to music between 8 and 10 am on the dial.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> I have my Lyr and just a quick question. I bought to pair with my HE500 and notice a hum starting at approx. 2:00 on the volume pot. It is dead quiet to that point and even at it's loudest it's not bad at all. This is without sources powered on. I was just wondering if this was normal or represents the ground loop issue and whether I should bother trying to figure it out.
> 
> The sound improvement with the added power is wonderful. I was using the MAD Ear+ HD which is like audio gold with my RS1i but didn't have the raw power recommended for orthos. Considering my budget I feel I'm sitting on a great setup.


 
   
  Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me stops in to help you out but just from reading this thread I would say ground loop problem or possibly the set screw on the volume pot is loose. I saw this problem earlier in either this thread or the other thread. Mine is pretty much dead quiet but tubes have a lot to do with this also. Do you notice the sound exactly the same in both ears or on one side or the other. If it is on only one side just switch the tubes around and see if the sound switches. Either way you should be ok with a small amount of hum so long it isn't bothering you, dont think you are hurting any of your equipment at all.


----------



## OldSkool

My new Lyr arrived yesterday and I'm up early on a Saturday, putting some burn-in hours on the 6N1P tubes.
   
  The Lyr replaces a trusty LD1+ that has driven my 650s well for the last year. I assumed the jump in SQ from LD1+ to Lyr wouldn't be as large as it was...but, the Lyr kills the LD in every way. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Glad I finally pulled the trigger! I didn't need the power for the Senns, but I'm planning to add some orthos next.


----------



## Argo Duck

Congrats OldSkool. My LD1+ had rather good synergy with my RS1s, although there too the Lyr is better. Much better balanced.
   
  The Lyr is indeed a good match with Orthos. Beware the costs though if you start tube-rolling!


----------



## OldSkool

Thanks for the kind words!
   
  Funny you mentioned tube rolling, as I mainly chose the Lyr over the Valhalla and Meier Concerto because of the ability to roll tubes and slightly tailor the sound to fit ones system. Too bad the Lorenz PCC88 tubes were snatched up so quickly, but I have my eye on some Amperex orange globes to try next. Is this how the sickness starts? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  FWIW, I have maybe 14 hours now on the Lyr/6N1Ps and the bass has filled in nicely. I'm also amazed at the wider soundstage I'm hearing.


----------



## mikenike

Just went for it and got the Lyr! So damn excited, shoulder-shaking excited (see "Kristen Wiig in Dream Home Extreme of SNL"). 
   
  Originally ordered the Valhalla, but it was on backorder for so long, I thought, "What the heck, go with the bigger kid!" Can't wait to start tube-rolling; speaking of, I went with the stock NOS.


----------



## OldSkool

Congrats mikenike, you made the right choice...and will LOVE the Lyr! What headphones do you have?
   
  The Lyr drives my HD650s with ease, I listen normally about the 9:00 position. Really nice SQ with just the 6N1P tubes, will try the GE 6BZ7s next.
   
  Let us know what you think when it arrives.


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Congrats mikenike, you made the right choice...and will LOVE the Lyr! What headphones do you have?
> 
> The Lyr drives my HD650s with ease, I listen normally about the 9:00 position. Really nice SQ with just the 6N1P tubes, will try the GE 6BZ7s next.
> 
> Let us know what you think when it arrives.


 


  I got the HD650s as well, and I have a pair of Audio Technica MTH-45s, which doesn't seem that well-known on Head-Fi. At the end of my internship (beginning of summer), I'll probably dish out for another headphone in the HD650s range (either the AKG K701 or Beyerdynamic DT880) or perhaps the Bifrost. 
   
  I've read a lot of great things with the 6N1P in the Lyr tube rolling thread, so I think I'll get that in a couple weeks.
   
  The package should be coming this evening, although it feels like FedEx is cutting it close with this delivery (it was shipped just Wednesday). I keep getting the feeling it should be delivered next week, but since the tracking says it be will here today, I'll be on edge the whole day!
   
  I already know my first test song: "One of these Nights" by the Eagles. Only just discovered it yesterday on YouTube, but now I cannot get that song out of my head!


----------



## mikenike

Argh! I was right. FedEx just took off the estimated delivery date. But now there's nothing for estimated delivery date. Probably will get it on Tuesday. Not sure if the subcontractors for FedEx Home Delivery does Saturday deliveries, and they seem to not deliver Mondays.


----------



## Stealer

Hi,
   
  I just got my Lyr 2 days ago..
  Loving it..and its still running in..
   
  I have my pair of Swan X4 monitors connected to the pre-amp out.
  I started to encounter with noise problem not hum
   for this case the noise = it sounded exactly like when you tv reception is out of tune.
  So far it happened twice and I am not sure is this normal..
  To recover from this I had to shutdown the gears several time., becos sometime once is not enuff
      shutdown for this case, do not include PC...
   
  Anyone has this problem..
  Is this a defective unit???
   
  Wrote to Shiit Audio and
  Jason replied "no idea, unfortunately"
  Sigh.... maybe I am the unfortunate one...
   
   
  My current gears layout
  PC(running JR MC16 >usb> Audio-gd NFB2(DIR9001) >diy IC> Lyr > diy IC (rca to xlr) > X4
   
   
  I had practically read thr this thread and only few had connected their active spkrs to this headamp..
   
  any suggestion will greatly appreciated!


----------



## Stealer

Had been a problem the past 2days..
  and its getting on my nerve..
   
  However I think I might had found the problem...
   
  Noticed that I did not have the headphone connected to the Lyr when I have the noise issue.
   
  Reason for not connecting the headphone is ... there is no switch to toggle between preamp and headphone...
  Decided to connect my headphone to Lyr..
  after that, no noise problem..
   
  IS it necessay to have a headphone connected???????
  Can someone with a pair of active spkr try this...
  Power your system without a headphone connected....
   Do you hear static noise  coming out from yr spkrs???
   
   
  rgds


----------



## WNBC

I have a pair of active Swan M200 MKIII monitors that I did at some point hook up to the Lyr.  Yes, there is a lot of feeback or noise when hooked up to the Lyr as a pre-amp.  The Swans are dead quiet when just hooked up to my source.  I'd have to look up info but this has been confirmed by others as well.  Maybe check out the 6Moons article on the Lyr.  The pre-amp function of the Lyr is nice because the volume knob of the Lyr is better than the volume control on the Swans.  However, due to the noise I eventually stopped using the Lyr as a pre-amp.  With the Swans I didn't need the extra gain or tube flavor so you might be better off not using the pre-amp function as well.  
   
  I never powered the speakers on with a pair of headphones plugged into the Lyr.  I believe when you do that only the headphone can be used so the pre-amp circuitry is not in play.   

  
  Quote: 





stealer said:


> Had been a problem the past 2days..
> and its getting on my nerve..
> 
> However I think I might had found the problem...
> ...


----------



## ninjikiran

only static I hear are pops but ive used the lyr as a pre amp without any headphone connected.


----------



## Stealer

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> I have a pair of active Swan M200 MKIII monitors that I did at some point hook up to the Lyr.  Yes, there is a lot of feeback or noise when hooked up to the Lyr as a pre-amp.  The Swans are dead quiet when just hooked up to my source.  I'd have to look up info but this has been confirmed by others as well.  Maybe check out the 6Moons article on the Lyr.  The pre-amp function of the Lyr is nice because the volume knob of the Lyr is better than the volume control on the Swans.  However, due to the noise I eventually stopped using the Lyr as a pre-amp.  With the Swans I didn't need the extra gain or tube flavor so you might be better off not using the pre-amp function as well.
> 
> I never powered the speakers on with a pair of headphones plugged into the Lyr.  I believe when you do that only the headphone can be used so the pre-amp circuitry is not in play.


 
  @WNBC,

  
  would appreciate if you could hookup yr Swan M200 to test. - if static noise is present , then power off and plug in a headphone..
   
  the static noise should goes away if this is the cause, just ;like mine...
   
  Without the pre-amp is a deal breaker for me...
   
   
  Quote:


ninjikiran said:


> only static I hear are pops but ive used the lyr as a pre amp without any headphone connected.


 


 @ninjikiran..
      I will hear pops if I turn on my power spkers immediately after the LYr is ON..
   So I will wait for 30 sec to power my Swan after the Lyr. Result - dead quite...
   
   
  I had written to Jason about this ..:
   
   
  thanks


----------



## WNBC

Sorry, Lyr is gone.  Maybe the Lyr sounds better as a pre-amp to a power amp but as a pre-amp to active monitors it is not the way to go.  Eventually I found the Swans to be better without the Lyr as a pre-amp but maybe you can play around with your source levels to get the least static from your Swans.
   
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/12.html
_"As quiet as the Lyr was on headphones, it now exhibited PSU noise. Its already high output signal was further amplified by a completely unattenuated Ampino (volume control fully opened to be bypassed). Lyr noise disappeared when the amp's control was closed by half to sit at 12:00. Given that the Lyr's core equation of 50:50 valve/transistor aspects was shifted to get sandier by 75% if not more, it was reasonable to expect lesser 'tube goodness' enhancements. And so it was. Very much to its credit if neutrality was a core design consideration, lyrification of the signal path produced only modest differences. Bass mass and heft built out, overall weightiness increased. On the flip side transparency, subjective speed, separation of tight weaves and transient sharpness diminished. Both flip and flop were surprisingly mellow, give and take balanced to not make this a clear-cut step upward but more a lateral move into a different flavor."_
   
  Quote: 





stealer said:


> @WNBC,
> 
> 
> would appreciate if you could hookup yr Swan M200 to test. - if static noise is present , then power off and plug in a headphone..
> ...


----------



## mikenike

Just got the package today, and it is burning in now with stock 6BZ7s. HD650s are plugged in and ready to go.
   
  At first, I was thinking, _why is it so gritty?._ Then I remembered I EQ'd the treble up some in foobar yesterday, so I quickly turned it off. But immediately before I'd realize the grittiness due to my error, the first thing that stood out was soundstage! Bigger for sure. 
   
  My DAC right now is the uDac-2, which I'd only recently discovered was very useless with volume from 1 o'clock up. So I can't max out the pot on the uDac-2, which is why I'm running the Lyr higher than most (around 10, sometimes 11 or 12 for the quieter stuff). Once I save up for the Bifrost, I expect to stay around the 9 o'clock area.
   
  Will post most later on as it settles.


----------



## koonhua90

I have posted some notes regarding my experience with various tubes on the Lyr driving my LCD-3, from Amperex, Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken, and Mullard.
   
  Check it out here if you are interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/2655#post_8130742


----------



## MickeyVee

The tube rolling thread is crazy good.. I'm planing on getting the Lyr in the spring and after following the tube thread, I ended up picking up a pair of Lorenz PCC88's (i think) as everyone was gaga over them and there where 4 left when I ordered. So sad.. have the tubes, phones and DAC but the Lyr will have to wait for another month or two.  In the mean time, enjoying the read.. seems like most a pretty impressed with it.
  
  Quote: 





koonhua90 said:


> I have posted some notes regarding my experience with various tubes on the Lyr driving my LCD-3, from Amperex, Siemens, Valvo, Telefunken, and Mullard.
> 
> Check it out here if you are interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/2655#post_8130742


----------



## ACDOAN

Can someone post a few pictures of the Schiit Lyr in hi-def resolution, please. I look at the Schiit Lyr on the classified ads and most of them have some kind of nasty, uneven brushing silver aluminum.
   
  I t haven't  received the Lyr so I will take the reviewers' word for it until I have it in my system. My dedicated cans is the AKG 702 and as I have read the Lyr is also a compliment to the AKG 702.
   
  I am kind of guy who likes everything looks nice and professional. The E7/E9 while made in China but the aluminum casings are done properly and they look very nice. I am nervous about receiving the Schiit Lyr and the casing will be looking like these:


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





acdoan said:


> Can someone post a few pictures of the Schiit Lyr in hi-def resolution, please. I look at the Schiit Lyr on the classified ads and most of them have some kind of nasty, uneven brushing silver aluminum.
> 
> I t haven't  received the Lyr so I will take the reviewers' word for it until I have it in my system. My dedicated cans is the AKG 702 and as I have read the Lyr is also a compliment to the AKG 702.
> 
> I am kind of guy who likes everything looks nice and professional. The E7/E9 while made in China but the aluminum casings are done properly and they look very nice. I am nervous about receiving the Schiit Lyr and the casing will be looking like these:


 


   
  I've had the Lyr for nearly a week now, and it came in pristine condition. The pictures you've posted look like those units have fingerprints and scratches. When shipped, the amp comes in a plastic sealed bag (like the ones that new TV remote controls are packaged in), so it's protected from cosmetic damage in transit. Forgive the rather heavily fingerprinted table and scruffy looking phone.
   
  The brushed aluminum is pretty even, although the right side of my unit has deeper grooves.


----------



## ACDOAN

Thank you for taking the time to reply my post. It's a nice looking Schiit indeed. Electronic gear gives us so many moment of enjoyment that she needs to be pampered and treated with pride.
   
  I am waiting and hopefully will be the proud owner of the new Lyr.
   
  Happy listening.


----------



## meltdown117

I use my Lyr as coffee warmer (jk, the cup's empty)


----------



## Neogeo333

Just snatched *koonhua90's *Lyr.  Still en route to me.  Also a LCD-2.2.  And got a order for a Eximus DP-1 dac, ohh boy this time upgradities got the best of me.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Letting go my EE Minmax dac and Bottlehead Crack wasnt easy.  I just hope the DP-1 is all they say it is.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





> Can someone post a few pictures of the Schiit Lyr in hi-def resolution, please. I look at the Schiit Lyr on the classified ads and most of them have some kind of nasty, uneven brushing silver aluminum.
> 
> I t haven't  received the Lyr so I will take the reviewers' word for it until I have it in my system. My dedicated cans is the AKG 702 and as I have read the Lyr is also a compliment to the AKG 702.
> 
> I am kind of guy who likes everything looks nice and professional. The E7/E9 while made in China but the aluminum casings are done properly and they look very nice. I am nervous about receiving the Schiit Lyr and the casing will be looking like these:


 
   
  Aluminum is aluminum and tends to hold its finger oils well...if I shine a high intensity flashlight at mine I can see lots of patches of finger smudging from handling.  If I don't shine a high intensity light at it, it's just fine.  It looks pretty slick atop Bifrost, too!  Under the high intensity light, there may be a slightly different hue to the aluminum of both...the bifrost may have a more "champaigne' thread running through the coloring for a bit darker a look.  I don't notice it under standard light, but if you're going to highlight your stack with halogen or high intensity LED, it's something to keep in mind 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Aluminum, being effectively a natural product like wood, is susceptible to natural variations if it's not finished/anodized.


----------



## ACDOAN

My Lyr left Schiit Audio facility today. Cannot wait 'til I can get a hold on it.  Next purchase from them is the Bifrost, then I am done for a while.


----------



## davidgotsa

Mine left Schiit on thursday. Since I live in Europe I guess I still have a week or two to before it gets here.... Can't wait.


----------



## Kremer930

Quote: 





neogeo333 said:


> Just snatched *koonhua90's *Lyr.  Still en route to me.  Also a LCD-2.2.  And got a order for a Eximus DP-1 dac, ohh boy this time upgradities got the best of me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Mmmm.  Nice rig.  You will love that.  Let us know what you think of it when it comes in if you can.  Cheers


----------



## mafiamike

Will this amp do for the q701's andt dt 990's(600). I posted on the wrong thread before.


----------



## Yuceka

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Will this amp do for the q701's andt dt 990's(600). I posted on the wrong thread before.


 


  Yes


----------



## Kremer930

I had the k702's and was really impressed with how much extra punch and depth it gave them in the bottom end compared to a dark voice 337 or the audio-gd Fun version A. You will love the Lyr, I am confident.


----------



## ACDOAN

I have a question, please. I have to dial the Lyr volume up between 10 and 11 o'clock to get the optimum sound out of my K702 while most of people said between 9 to 10 is loud enough for them, Am I going deaf due to aging? 
   
  Listening to the "From this moment on" by DK, I have to say the K 702 is deserved its claim " reference headphone". My K702 is technically brand new with about 20 hours on it. I cannot wait 'till its 100 hours or so to be fully break-in.
   
  Love these guys from Schiit Audio for their Lyr amp. This is my amp for the K 702  and this is it.
   
  Now if these big dogs from Schitt Audio can provide us old farts a nice CD transport for under $500.00 that would be nice. Jason, you hear me...I know you guys can put out some good transport as the rest of your product lines.


----------



## SeaHawk

The tubes you are using will affect the voltage gain and ultimately "how loud" the volume is at any knob position.  I wouldn't sweat it


----------



## Kremer930

The 702's have a relatively low impedance but they crave current.  They are harder to drive properly than most people probably realise.  It takes quite a lot of power to fill in the bottom end.  I would guess that a lot of people have not heard the best from their 702's.
   
  There is also another possible contributing cause.  The line in signal strength can also cause a need for a higher volume setting.  Sources vary in signal strength from 1 to 4 volts.


----------



## ninjikiran

the 702's are rather sexy,  even in the high end I haven't heard more accurate headphones in terms of positioning.  Games are the test proof of the pudding since you know where each sound is supposed to come from.  The 702's in bad company 2 was EXTREMELY accurate.
   
  Im pretty sure the HD800's are up there to but I dont have any extended time with them.


----------



## mafiamike

The lyr is on its way, will be running q701's off them. If I just want to use cd's will I need a dac? cdp>dac>lyr>q701? I will be using a brp for now butI will be using the lyr mostly for videogames(mixamp>lyr>701). Thanks Mike.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> The lyr is on its way, will be running q701's off them. If I just want to use cd's will I need a dac? cdp>dac>lyr>q701? I will be using a brp for now butI will be using the lyr mostly for videogames(mixamp>lyr>701). Thanks Mike.


 


  You can do that? Cool, never thought of it. Ive tried the mixamp but it is weak with power. So you hook up the mic to the mixamp and your headphones to the Lyr. Ill have to pull my mixamp out now and try this all out.


----------



## Rebel975

pseudohippy said:


> You can do that? Cool, never thought of it. Ive tried the mixamp but it is weak with power. So you hook up the mic to the mixamp and your headphones to the Lyr. Ill have to pull my mixamp out now and try this all out.






Yes, you most certainly can. (See my sig.) You'll just need a 1/8" to dual RCA cable to go from the headphone out on the Mixamp to the RCA inputs on the Lyr.


----------



## pseudohippy

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Yes, you most certainly can. (See my sig.) You'll just need a 1/8" to dual RCA cable to go from the headphone out on the Mixamp to the RCA inputs on the Lyr.


 


  One more question, does it matter that I have the older original version of the mixamp? I notice they have a newer version these days.


----------



## shaunybaby

This is head-fi and we often get off topic by mistake but this time I think I am doing it on purpose, I found this band that I really like and I think other people might like it too so if you want to try something new try these guys,
http://ezrafurman.bandcamp.com/album/the-year-of-no-returning-digital-album
  I don,t buy music to own it I buy it to support it and I hope you like em


----------



## mafiamike

Hey Rebel, does your lyr and mixamp make alot of noise(hummimg)?


----------



## Rebel975

pseudohippy said:


> One more question, does it matter that I have the older original version of the mixamp? I notice they have a newer version these days.




It shouldn't matter. As far as I'm aware the only changes they made to the newer mixamp were the aesthetics. My mixamp is definitely not the newer version. It's several years old. 





mafiamike said:


> Hey Rebel, does your lyr and mixamp make alot of noise(hummimg)?





It did when I had a pair of Ultrasone PRO 2900's. With my HE-500's it's dead silent up to about 2 pm on the Lyr (and about 70% voice to game volume on the Mixamp). You have to keep in mind that 2 pm on the dial would make your ears bleed though. 


You guys should check out this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-w-dolby-headphone-updated-2-19-2012-petition-added


----------



## IEMCrazy

So, I've been thinking about adding complimentary cans to my beloved HD650s to use with Lyr.  I've been up and down the gambit of what would be complimentary to it.
   
  There's the unattainable goal of the HD800s.  I'd love that kind of sound stage and performance for classical, but honestly, for the $1500 they run, I could get a whole collection of the whole gambit of lesser cans.  It seems kind of a silly direction to go until they come down in price.
   
  Part of me is tempted by the orthos...largely just because I can because I have a Lyr and they're "better", right?  I looked at LCD2....for a variety of reasons, it's not those.  I'm considering HE-6.  But for $1200 I might as well splurge to $100 and get HD800.   That leaves HE-500 and HE-4.  Both very reasonable options. 
   
  Then I keep coming back to K702 and DT880, the good old flagships.  You know, back when they were the best thing around at any price.  I keep hearing such good things about K702 paired with Lyr, and I know how good HD650 is paired with Lyr.  It strikes me that a duo of the old flagships may trump a single top-tier can.
   
  I don't intend to ditch my 650s.  I love those cans.  So it would be something complimentary to them that I'm in the market for.
   
  For those that have heard DT880, K702, and either HE-500, HD800, HD700, etc on Lyr...which would you go for and why, specifically as a compliment to the laid back HD650.


----------



## Misterrogers

I would recommend spending some quality time with the HE-500's. For the price, they give you the very best of what Ortho's bring to the table. Lyr drives them with authority.
  
  Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> So, I've been thinking about adding complimentary cans to my beloved HD650s to use with Lyr.  I've been up and down the gambit of what would be complimentary to it.
> 
> There's the unattainable goal of the HD800s.  I'd love that kind of sound stage and performance for classical, but honestly, for the $1500 they run, I could get a whole collection of the whole gambit of lesser cans.  It seems kind of a silly direction to go until they come down in price.
> 
> ...


----------



## davidgotsa

The buzzing noise doesn't annoy you? I just got my HE-500's today and am using it with the Lyr and whenever I play quiet songs it drives me crazy. 
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I would recommend spending some quality time with the HE-500's. For the price, they give you the very best of what Ortho's bring to the table. Lyr drives them with authority.


----------



## Misterrogers

What tubes do you have in?
   
  Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> The buzzing noise doesn't annoy you? I just got my HE-500's today and am using it with the Lyr and whenever I play quiet songs it drives me crazy.


----------



## davidgotsa

I've only tried with the 6N1P's and the stock ones, JJ or whatever they're called. Both make the same buzzing sound when I turn the volume up to the level I want it to be. 
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> What tubes do you have in?


----------



## Misterrogers

And where is that level roughly with the HE-500's?


----------



## davidgotsa

Roughly at 10-11. Below 9 it's completely silent. 
  
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> And where is that level roughly with the HE-500's?


----------



## Misterrogers

Hmmm, I'll go back and roll in those tubes tonight - don't remember the gain on them. My Lyr(s) are fed by Bifrost, and I have to turn the colume up to 2 to hear anything at all. Your hum/noise is definitely something I haven't experienced. Could be (one or any combination of)...
   
  1. Tubes.
  2. DAC output feeding Lyr.
  3. Power strip/grid noise.
  4. Your IC's.
   
  Feel like hunting? It'll take some effort, but you should be able to improve if not eliminate that noise.
  
  Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> Roughly at 10-11. Below 9 it's completely silent.


----------



## davidgotsa

Yea, it would be great if it could go away. That's the only thing bothering me with these He-500, if that noise goes away I'll be 100% happy. 
   
   
  1. I don't know if it's the tubes but they make exactly the same noise at the same volume. 
  2. I have the Fiio E10 as a DAC at the moment. 
  3. You mean the power given to the Lyr? Someone mentioned "grounding" 
  4. Don't know what that is. 
   
  Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> Hmmm, I'll go back and roll in those tubes tonight - don't remember the gain on them. My Lyr(s) are fed by Bifrost, and I have to turn the colume up to 2 to hear anything at all. Your hum/noise is definitely something I haven't experienced. Could be (one or any combination of)...
> 
> 1. Tubes.
> 2. DAC output feeding Lyr.
> ...


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> I've only tried with the 6N1P's and the stock ones, JJ or whatever they're called. Both make the same buzzing sound when I turn the volume up to the level I want it to be.


 
   
  Your post isn't the first I've seen when searching the boards referring to buzzing with the HE-500s & Lyr.   The 500's are just so darn sensitive.  I don't think the other poster(s) posted long enough about it to have a resolution though.  I'm interested in hearing your progression with them.
   
  I'm still not sure what orthos do universally different to sound than dynamics.  IMO there's too much emphasis placed on driver tech in cans.  Same with IEMs.  BA versus dynamic.  I never hear a can and say "this is BA, and this is dynamic", I just hear the overall detail and signature and prefer one over the other. I like my Hifiman RE0, I like my Sure 535s.  I never think in terms of "BA versus dynamic".  I think mostly in terms of wanting a flat response (RE0) versus an HD650/tubey sound from the 535's. 
   
  I've been curious about orthos....and part of me wonders "are the new expensive breed" of cans really worth the premium over the old flagships?"


----------



## SeaHawk

HE-500s still much lower sensitivity than my Grado's, and I can just faintly hear a bit of hiss with 6N1P's in.  However, it is NOT coupled to the volume control.  Since the tubes are used for voltage and not current gain, I don't think a hiss, hum or other noise that varied with volume are related to them and are likely something upstream (either power or source).
   
  If you unplug the line-in cables (so just the power cable and headphones are connected to the Lyr) do you still hear the noise at those volume positions?  If not, it's coming from your source, if so it's likely coming in the AC line.  (There's also the possibility of a ground loop between your source and Lyr).
   
  Eliminate the various possibilities through troubleshooting techniques and what's left is the likely culprit.  You should be enjoying the music!


----------



## detoxguy

Describing the HE-500s as sensitive is just completely wrong for starters. As far as headphones go the HE-500 is one of the least sensitive. The most likely culprit for the hum sound is a ground loop issue which if you read the documentation that came with the amp is clearly identified. My Lyr had hum starting at around 2 o'clock on the volume dial and it completely disappeared with the use of a 2 prong converter. 
   
  It is now completely dead silent even if turned to full volume. What also worked great was simply taking a set of pliers to the ground prong of the power cord. Problem solved. The surge protector I'm using is grounded so no worries there. I couldn't be happier with this amp. 
   
  The HE-500 has absolutely nothing to do with the hum noise whatsoever.


----------



## davidgotsa

Thanks a lot to both of you. I know absolutely NOTHING about electricity and how it works, or even how amps work for that matter, so I appreciate your help. 
   
  I did unplug the line-in cables and the sound went away. 
  
  Quote: 





seahawk said:


> HE-500s still much lower sensitivity than my Grado's, and I can just faintly hear a bit of hiss with 6N1P's in.  However, it is NOT coupled to the volume control.  Since the tubes are used for voltage and not current gain, I don't think a hiss, hum or other noise that varied with volume are related to them and are likely something upstream (either power or source).
> 
> If you unplug the line-in cables (so just the power cable and headphones are connected to the Lyr) do you still hear the noise at those volume positions?  If not, it's coming from your source, if so it's likely coming in the AC line.  (There's also the possibility of a ground loop between your source and Lyr).
> 
> Eliminate the various possibilities through troubleshooting techniques and what's left is the likely culprit.  You should be enjoying the music!


 
   
  2 prong converter? Could you explain what that is? How is it possible to convert the 2 prong to 3 prong? Wouldn't I have to take off the 2 prong that is on now and "rewire" it with a 3 prong? 
   
  Pardon my ignorance. 
   
  I live in Europe, if that changes anything.
  Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> Describing the HE-500s as sensitive is just completely wrong for starters. As far as headphones go the HE-500 is one of the least sensitive. The most likely culprit for the hum sound is a ground loop issue which if you read the documentation that came with the amp is clearly identified. My Lyr had hum starting at around 2 o'clock on the volume dial and it completely disappeared with the use of a 2 prong converter.
> 
> It is now completely dead silent even if turned to full volume. What also worked great was simply taking a set of pliers to the ground prong of the power cord. Problem solved. The surge protector I'm using is grounded so no worries there. I couldn't be happier with this amp.
> 
> The HE-500 has absolutely nothing to do with the hum noise whatsoever.


----------



## Rebel975

The hum only starts on mine around 2 pm on the dial as well (AKA ear bleeding volume levels).


----------



## SeaHawk

Can you pull the plug out of the wall, turn it upside down and back in?  Hopefully it's as simple as that (match the AC phasing!  I like useless terms like that!) 
  (As far as the "third prong", there's likely a metal "stripe" that goes down the side of your round plug separate from the two pins - in the US and UK it's another prong rather than on the side of the plug..)
   
  Is everything in your system plugged into the same wall outlet/power strip?
   
  If that doesn't do anything, do you have a receiver (with connected speakers and power  ) that you could plug in the cables currently going to the Line In on their Lyr?  (Unfortunately you'll likely have to move stuff around).  We want to see if you still hear that noise from your source on something other than the Lyr.  If you do, there may be an issue with whatever device is your source, otherwise it's likely a ground loop.


----------



## detoxguy

ahhh, I have no idea about European power cords/outlets. Here in North America there are older houses that didn't have the grounded 3 prong outlets when they were first built. Therefore you can buy an adapter that goes from 3 prongs to 2prongs with a metal ring to attach to the screw in the centre of the outlet which would then provide the ground...
   
  As far as European outlets etc. go I have no idea. 
   
  You could also try a ground loop isolator: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214 I bought one and it helped a little but some have had good success but it was removing the ground from the equation with this amp that equaled dead silence. In my communications with Jason around this issue he indicated they may try to source 2 prong power cords in the future. Maybe some fellow Europeans can assist you in how to get rid of the ground loop issue


----------



## davidgotsa

Okay so I feel kinda stupid. The outlet that I was using didn't even have the grounding thing.  It's a pretty old apartment...
   
  But then I moved everything to the kitchen which is pretty new, and there the outlets had that third little thing on the top to ground everything. 
   
  The hum was gone, what a relief!
   
  Thanks again!


----------



## Misterrogers

No worries! Glad you were able to track it down definitively in short order. 
  
  Quote: 





davidgotsa said:


> Okay so I feel kinda stupid. The outlet that I was using didn't even have the grounding thing.  It's a pretty old apartment...
> 
> But then I moved everything to the kitchen which is pretty new, and there the outlets had that third little thing on the top to ground everything.
> 
> ...


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> So, I've been thinking about adding complimentary cans to my beloved HD650s to use with Lyr.  I've been up and down the gambit of what would be complimentary to it.
> 
> There's the unattainable goal of the HD800s.  I'd love that kind of sound stage and performance for classical, but honestly, for the $1500 they run, I could get a whole collection of the whole gambit of lesser cans.  It seems kind of a silly direction to go until they come down in price.
> 
> ...


 
  Dude! It's like you're in my head!!!  That's exactly what I'm searching for, also!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





misterrogers said:


> I would recommend spending some quality time with the HE-500's. For the price, they give you the very best of what Ortho's bring to the table. Lyr drives them with authority.


 


  From another thread you posted in a while back about this topic before you had HE-500 you said you used:
   
  Quote: 





> DT990/600s, K702s and HD600s.


 
   
  With your Lyr.   You've heard a pretty good portion of the options I listed on it....what would you say about the 990, K702, and HD600 compared to the HE-500 on Lyr?  Or, rather, what do you like more about your HE-500 now than you did back then with the DT990, K702, and HD600 trilogy?   
   
  From what I've read, HE-500 is more of an "upgrade" path from HD650 than it is a companion can.  I really don't have any complaints at all about my HD650's on the Lyr, so I don't really desire to "upgrade" from them but to find something that synergystically completes the kit along side them.  All complaints I had about HD650 were solved by adding Lyr. 
   
  Edit: Should have specified "other than preferences for one signature over another, what do you like more about them."  Since the goal is to have complimentary cans, sound signature preference is a mute point.


----------



## AppleDappleman

So has anyone done a comparison with the Schiit Valhalla? 

 I plan on purchasing a HD650 in the future. I would be curious if anyone has done the comparison. I'm just curious how much i'll have to save up.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Dude! It's like you're in my head!!!  That's exactly what I'm searching for, also!


 


   
  I didn't even notice that you were responding to my post until now!
   
  If you're interested, I ultimately decided to go with K702 as the compliment.  The HE500 sounded lovely, but the numerous comments about "I love my HD650's still, but they've been collecting dust" worried me.  I definitely like my 650's enough to not desire something that would upgrade or replace them, and certainly not for the $700 price tag.  For the same $700 as one "ultimate headphones" (which we all know to be an infamous Head-Fi FOTM and will be replaced by the new must-have by Fang once a year for the next 5 years) I was able to get two of the three "ultimate headphones" from a few years ago   
   
  Planar tech is great, don't get me wrong. But I think the "new wave planar" is still an emerging tech and going through it's learning curve.  I imagine over the next 3 years it will still undergo some major tweaks, changes, and reinventions.   That's a good thing, but it means right now you're paying an early adopter's premium for a "stepping stone" not a "milestone" product.  Same with Senn's edge ring drivers in HD700, HD800.  They're amazing cans, but it's the early adopter's R&D premium pricing still. 
   
  Right now the old flagships just can't be beat on value if you drive them correctly.  I've spent one evening with the K702 on Lyr and as hoped they're about as opposite HD650 as one can get while still remaining musical (instead of a purely analytical monitoring tool.)  Much brigher, much less mid-bass, more energy, less liquidy (more dry), very articulate. 
   
  It's only initial impressions of a non-broken-in headphone, but so far I do feel that this duo of cans gives the best of both worlds, both sides of the sound signature argument on demand.  I still like my HD650's best.  But it's nice to be able to pick at will and get an entirely different sound when I wish it, either for a particular recording, or to hear the same music differently.  I often find myself listening with the 650's thinking "I wonder what this sounds like on a more detailed, brighter, drier can."  Now I can find out.
   
  They also make me notice the extreme clamping of HD650 more.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I wouldn't want K70x or DT88x (or any bright analytical can) as my primary can.  But it's a fun mixup to have in the arsenal, and I think a "one headphone solution" is a reach.  Not all recordings will behave well one one signature or the other.  Instrumental solos are out of this world on the K70x.  Female vocals...not so much.
   
  You can read my early thoughts in this thread:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/566356/looking-for-a-headphone-amplifier-for-a-pair-of-akg-k-701s/15#post_8184746


----------



## carsany

Thanks for the description, I am contemplating the same setup.


----------



## mafiamike

My amp is still in the mail, custom clearence completed so hopefully this week sometime. I just got a MF V DAC II so this is my first venture into quality headphone sound.  I started to listen to cd's/itunes again and I really enjoy this hobbie. I am also looking to buy some beyer T1's in the future or the senns 700's but I will wait for the reviews. I like the clarity  of the q701's and the bass of the dt 990's. I also play alot of videogames and still a newb at headphone gear. This site has been really helpful and has emptied my wallet lol.


----------



## AppleDappleman

When ordering the Lyr and the bitfrost, which voltage should I order and which tubes do you all recommend, Nos tubes or JJ tubes?


----------



## Radioking59

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> When ordering the Lyr and the bitfrost, which voltage should I order and which tubes do you all recommend, Nos tubes or JJ tubes?


 

 Assuming you are in the US get the 115 volt.


----------



## weitn

Received my Lyr two weeks ago. After more than 100+ hours of burn in, I am very satisfy with the sound quality. Love the wider sounstage and details. Definitely a worthy upgrade.


----------



## AppleDappleman

DAC to pair this with? I was going to buy the bitfrost but any other amp in the 300 region you guys recommend that would top the bit frost? Really stuck on the bit frost already but I want you guys to convince me otherwise


I'm going to be using this on a hifiman he-5le

Only have a E17 at the moment


----------



## IEMCrazy

There's a few really great DACs people talk about, but I doubt you'll find many people in a Schiit related thread who would suggest something instead of the Bifrost.  Depending on who you ask it's either an extremely solid performer in its price class, or performs well above its price class.  And if you have a Schiit amp, there's really little reason to break the continuity of an aesthetically matched stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The Bifrost is a very transparent DAC, even slightly bright of transparent, so if you're looking for the DAC to warm your sound, perhaps look elsewhere (or tube roll the Lyr.)  But it would be hard to recommend something else...it's a great DAC!
   
  There was someone lurking around either this forum or another who'd bought the Bifrost to replace his $2,000 Theta from the early 90's (which was also designed by Mike Moffat) and found that it sounded better (which Mike has also commented on it being better than the old ones at third the size and a fifth the price.)  So it will probably be handily outperformed by a $2,000 best technology can offer DAC of today, but it handily beats a $2,000 best technology can offer DAC of the 90's.  Not a bad deal! (and a fun story!)
   
  There are better DACs...but not for anywhere near the price range, unless you're looking for a colorizing DAC which isn't the Bifrost.  Think neutrality there. There's a post in the Bifrost thread from someone who just got a Bifrost after moving from E17.  For that poster the apparent lack of bass and mids was disturbing.  In reality it's the lack of coloration that was probably the shock...so be warned, your E17 you're used to may be coloring the midbass.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Volume settings on Lyr in relation to source.
   
  Rather than start a poll thread, I figured I'd just ask in here:  What volume settings do Lyr + K70x & HD650 owners use with their Lyr, and what do you use as a source?
   
  Despite many people saying that on other amps they find they have to crank the K70x up higher than HD650, I've found the opposite.  Until now I was using a Pure I-20 and an iPod touch feeding digital coax to Bifrost, and kept the volume usually a bit over the 9'oclock mark on the Lyr and HD650, and for the K702's kept it at or below the 9'oclock mark.   I've seen that 9'oclock commonly mentioned with Lyr and these headphones.
   
  I swapped out my I-20 for a Squeezebox Touch and the volume at the 9'oclock mark was ear shattering and quickly fatiguing on my K702's (I haven't tried the HD650s with the new source yet.)  I'm finding "comfortable" listening to be barely above the "volume off" position....maybe 7 o'clock - 8 o'clock on the dial now with very minute increments for adjustment. 
   
  The I-20 had fixed unchangeable volume on the digital out, and the SBT is set to "fixed 100% volume" (a.k.a. bit-perfect.)   It's very listenable but it's not subtle that despite the same Bifrost (2vRMS) output, the digital input must be at a higher gain....or rather the iPod or I-20 must have been digitally altering the gain somehow.  I doubt the SBT is applying a digital gain increase in any way.  
   
  It's very listenable, and sounds very good (better than on the I20, I  think, presumably due to the lack of digital gain alteration that must have been going on) though it feels wrong to be using the bottom 15% of the volume pot only almost to the point I'd be tempted to do digital gain reduction to open up the knob again....though I know I wouldn't be happy that way either!
   
  I'm just curious where others set the knob for these phones and what source they use it on to see if the SBT is somehow producing abnormally loud digital output (gain boost for unexplained reasons?) or if the I-20/iPod was putting out abnormally quiet digital output (gain trim for unexplained reasons.) 
   
  Note, neither device has ReplayGain/SoundCheck enabled (or, at least, shouldn't...)


----------



## AppleDappleman

iemcrazy said:


> There's a few really great DACs people talk about, but I doubt you'll find many people in a Schiit related thread who would suggest something instead of the Bifrost.  Depending on who you ask it's either an extremely solid performer in its price class, or performs well above its price class.  And if you have a Schiit amp, there's really little reason to break the continuity of an aesthetically matched stack
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looks like I'm on the hunt again. I really do like the simple, elegant.....and SUPER AWESOME look of the lyr/bit frost combo. You do make me nervous when you say it's not that warm because I love the sweet warm sound because I feel like it brings the vocals to life and real. 

So I guess in the 400 price range there really isn't much? Kind of a bummer but I expected this. Maybe I'll just keep looking around. It's so hard finding the he-5le, lyr, and bitfrost in mint condition used for a cheap price. 

I'll keep researching til I find a good dac to pair with the lyr. I'm excited but I don't even have the funds yet haha


----------



## detoxguy

bifrost.
  
  Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Looks like I'm on the hunt again. I really do like the simple, elegant.....and SUPER AWESOME look of the lyr/bit frost combo. You do make me nervous when you say it's not that warm because I love the sweet warm sound because I feel like it brings the vocals to life and real.
> So I guess in the 400 price range there really isn't much? Kind of a bummer but I expected this. Maybe I'll just keep looking around. It's so hard finding the he-5le, lyr, and bitfrost in mint condition used for a cheap price.
> I'll keep researching til I find a good dac to pair with the lyr. I'm excited but I don't even have the funds yet haha


----------



## tkteo

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> Rather than start a poll thread, I figured I'd just ask in here:  What volume settings do Lyr + K70x & HD650 owners use with their Lyr, and what do you use as a source?


 
  I rarely if ever turn the Lyr volume past 10 o'clock when using it with AKG K702. That is already loud enough.


----------



## olor1n

The dial is set at 9 o'clock on mine for both the HD650 and LCD-2. It's a safe and comfortable level for extended listening without sacrificing dynamics. Loud brickwalled recordings play at around 76dBA average with extreme peaks measured at 80dBA for very brief passages. Chain is in my sig. Volume measured with an SPL metre enclosing the headphone cup with a disc at the end of the mic.


----------



## AppleDappleman

Quote: 





detoxguy said:


> bifrost.


 

 You really recommend it i'm guessing? Looks like i'm getting it for sure for now. I'm just trying to see how the amp/pair with other headphones, I want the hifiman to be my last headphones, but knowing me i'll probably want to spend more.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> You really recommend it i'm guessing? Looks like i'm getting it for sure for now. I'm just trying to see how the amp/pair with other headphones, I want the hifiman to be my last headphones, but knowing me i'll probably want to spend more.


 

 If you really want something warmer than you can look at the Music Streamer II+. You're going to lose neutrality, transparency, and probably a little detail though.


----------



## Vargtass

I'd like to do some A-B-testing between my LYR and my Matrix Quattro amp. I'm fairly certain I prefer my Lyr, I just want to be sure so I can downgrade and stick with one amp. 
   
  My question is - should I be worried about inserting / taking out the 1/4" plug from the Lyr when it's on, even when the volume knob is set to zero volume? I don't really know what to expect / be afraid of. 
   
  Oh - another thing. Do you sometimes experience a audible "pop" sound when powering on the Lyr? I have no idea why I just get that sound through my phones some times - it's not really consistent at all. I don't really know how loud it is - and the times I've worn the phones when powered on the amp, I haven't really heard anything out of the ordinary when the amp kicks in after the grace period. 
   
  In other news - dear god the amp looks great and sounds fantastic on my LCD-2's. Dac-wise I guess I'm just waiting for Schiit to release something new. Currently sitting on a Cambridge DacMagic - what I expect to be the weakest component for my by far right now. I've looked into the newly released Nad M-51 Dac (35-bit ... woha) but I don't even know how much difference I will hear going from the DacMagic, so I'm very much sitting on the fence right now.


----------



## perfect-pitch

vargtass said:


> I'd like to do some A-B-testing between my LYR and my Matrix Quattro amp. I'm fairly certain I prefer my Lyr, I just want to be sure so I can downgrade and stick with one amp.
> 
> My question is - should I be worried about inserting / taking out the 1/4" plug from the Lyr when it's on, even when the volume knob is set to zero volume? I don't really know what to expect / be afraid of.
> 
> ...




Well, a comparison beween the Lyr and the Matrix Quattro would be very interesting. I'm looking forward to get some further impressions.

The newer Lyrs have a built in relais which prevent the phones from the high power while turning the amp on and off'. If you have an older one the best is to wait some seconds before you plug in your phones into the Lyr. 

If you turn the amp off plug your phones out some seconds before and you will be safe.

Dac-wise you are on a good way. The Dac Magic is a real steal for its price. Have you do some further experiences with tube-rolling?

Cheers!

perfect-pitch


----------



## ACDOAN

Quote: 





perfect-pitch said:


> Well, a comparison beween the Lyr and the Matrix Quattro would be very interesting. I'm looking forward to get some further impressions.
> The newer Lyrs have a built in relais which prevent the phones from the high power while turning the amp on and off'. If you have an older one the best is to wait some seconds before you plug in your phones into the Lyr.
> If you turn the amp off plug your phones out some seconds before and you will be safe.
> Dac-wise you are on a good way. The Dac Magic is a real steal for its price. Have you do some further experiences with tube-rolling?
> ...


 


  It's very common for hi- power amp to produce a thump when being power on. I have owned Adcom and Conrad Johnson SS amps in the past  and they both "thump" .  Speaking from the 2 channel speaker amps, I have never had speakers damage by such "thump" . By adding a soft relay circuitry that will prevent just that. I am fairly new in headphones,so that's another learning curve,
   
  My fairly new Lyr does not pop but it has a little "tack" when power off if I forget to unplug my headphone before doing so. It's not a biggie to me,
   
  Electronic gear is very "funny". I had a pair of Audio Research SP16 pre amp and the Bryston 4 BSST which "tack" or "pop" the **** out of my expensive speakers. I took them to the local dealer , they did not behave the same way as in my house. They were dead quiet even when the dealer plugged the units straight in the wall plug without any line conditioner, 
   
  I sent both of the units to manufactures , they came back with " No Problem Found" ( normal and acceptable range of DC leakage.). 
   
  Electrical wiring in my house must have something to do with that "pop" or "tack" even though my house at that time was fairly new and it was  not one of house which was built by the low end builder either.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





appledappleman said:


> Looks like I'm on the hunt again. I really do like the simple, elegant.....and SUPER AWESOME look of the lyr/bit frost combo. You do make me nervous when you say it's not that warm because I love the sweet warm sound because I feel like it brings the vocals to life and real.
> So I guess in the 400 price range there really isn't much? Kind of a bummer but I expected this. Maybe I'll just keep looking around. It's so hard finding the he-5le, lyr, and bitfrost in mint condition used for a cheap price.
> I'll keep researching til I find a good dac to pair with the lyr. I'm excited but I don't even have the funds yet haha


 

 Don't the HE-5LE have a slightly V-shaped curve?  No wonder you like a warmer setup!   Still, if you're using it with those cans...I can't help but recommend Bifrost.  I think the orthos can really take advantage of the detail and neutrality.   My personal choice would be to go for Bifrost and if I wanted to color the sound further, I'd roll Lyr to warmer tubes.  That's the advantage of buying a roll-friendly amp, after all!
   

  
  Quote: 





tkteo said:


> I rarely if ever turn the Lyr volume past 10 o'clock when using it with AKG K702. That is already loud enough.


 

 10'oclock was pushing it with the I-20 dock...but for some albums I may have made it up that far.   Somehow with the Squeezebox pushing up to 9'oclock would be deafening I think....8....ok...9...no.  I still can't help but wonder if it's somehow adding digital gain even though it shouldn't.  Or the I-20 was simply not bit-perfect for some reason.
   
  I did an experiment yesterday.  if I turn my digital volume on my Squeezebox back on and drop it to about 85% I get back to the 9'oclock on the volume pot I had before.  So there's an extra 10-15% gain coming from he Squeezebox than was on the I-20....it's truly strange, and that's an enormous amount of gain difference for two sources.  I still find it unlikely that the SBT would be misbehaving so badly.  Since it's digital, it's not like there's a voltage difference at the jack between devices like with analog sources, that doesn't affect gain....so we're talking an actual difference in the data stream values.  One source or the other was modifying the data before S/PDIF conversion, and I'm not sure which one!

  
  Quote: 





olor1n said:


> The dial is set at 9 o'clock on mine for both the HD650 and LCD-2. It's a safe and comfortable level for extended listening without sacrificing dynamics. Loud brickwalled recordings play at around 76dBA average with extreme peaks measured at 80dBA for very brief passages. Chain is in my sig. Volume measured with an SPL metre enclosing the headphone cup with a disc at the end of the mic.


 

 I'll have to try again with the HD650s....the K702 is new so I haven't taken the HD650 out since I got the Squeezebox.  I have found that I tend to keep the HD650 higher than K702 on Lyr (contrary to popular K702 results.)  so maybe you and I have the same levels overall.  If K702 gets to 8'oclock....it's possible HD650 is at 9.
   

  
  Quote: 





vargtass said:


> My question is - should I be worried about inserting / taking out the 1/4" plug from the Lyr when it's on, even when the volume knob is set to zero volume? I don't really know what to expect / be afraid of.
> 
> Oh - another thing. Do you sometimes experience a audible "pop" sound when powering on the Lyr? I have no idea why I just get that sound through my phones some times - it's not really consistent at all. I don't really know how loud it is - and the times I've worn the phones when powered on the amp, I haven't really heard anything out of the ordinary when the amp kicks in after the grace period.


 
   
  No, in fact, were it not for the relay mute, you would HAVE to plug/unplug your headphones with it on.   The relay mute is a safety so that turning it on/off with headphones plugged won't harm it.   I plug/unplug with it on anyway, just to be in the habit in case of higher end gear someday without the mute (or in case the relay gets stuck open some day.)  I begged Jason for the "proper order" even though it doesn't matter with the relay.  The volume should be at zero when plugging/unplugging (as confirmed by Woo's FAQ for their tube amps as well.)
   
  And yes, I get the audible pop.  Actually I have two Lyr's, it happens on the one, but not the other, and it's not every time on the one.  It's normal I believe, although it does get me nervous to hear, I don't think it's a voltage capable of damage, it's just charge from the jack.  Probably enough capacitance builds up that can go through the cans but is not enough to push to the ground drain. I can't guarantee it's never damaging, but I doubt it, and hasn't caused damage yet over a few months.  There's only so much current that can be at the jack with the volume pot turned down.


----------



## Vargtass

Thanks for the answers, guys. 
   
  About tubes, I'm running a pair of National Electronics 6922 from Tubemonger. They came highly recommended in the tuberollerthread for the lyr. Also got two pairs of 6BQ7A - but haven't fed the amp those yet. Have yet to install my socketsavers, and that means swapping tubes are kind of a hassle (but not impossible, do mind). 
   
  I'll try to do some a-b-testing with the Quattro and Lyr hopefully this weekend. I have them both hooked up to my DacMagic, so listening to a track and then swapping amps should be easy. The reason I'm semi-sceptical about inserting the phono-plug into the lyr is that my first Lyr (this is number two) made the LCD-2's emit a VERY high "pop" when I plugged them in once. I sent the unit back tho, and got a new one, so could just be a issue with that one (by the way, the service from Schiit is so god damn amazing I don't even know how to praise them enough). 
   
  I'll do some a-b shortly, and I'm really looking forward to it. The Quattro is actually quite the beast when running balanced. 
   
  I'll report back when I've got more - but for now I feel (or suspect) that there is a wider soundstage with the Lyr, as well as possibly a tad more and tighter bass. Not sure though. I've been pondering the amps and I really like both alot. I feel somewhat embarresed about not really catching huge differences between the two (but hey, they're similarly priced). I'll try to get to the bottom of it tho. 
   
  Any thoughts on the Bifrost being a huge upgrade over the DacMagic by the way? Pretty much fallen in love with Schiit-gear - but I keep hoping for a more hardcore Dac from them


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





vargtass said:


> Thanks for the answers, guys.
> 
> About tubes, I'm running a pair of National Electronics 6922 from Tubemonger. They came highly recommended in the tuberollerthread for the lyr. Also got two pairs of 6BQ7A - but haven't fed the amp those yet. Have yet to install my socketsavers, and that means swapping tubes are kind of a hassle (but not impossible, do mind).
> 
> ...


 

 My one Lyr definitely makes the headphones have a loud pop maybe 50% of the time, while my other one seems to never do so.   However it does it even when the relay is open so I don't think it's any real driven power going through, I think it's just whatever charge is sitting around the jack.  It doesn't seem to be any louder than loud peaks in music which should be well within tolerances for the drivers, and no driver damage is detected (visual or audible) from the occurances.  That is to say, I wouldn't want it driven into my ear on a regular basis, but the same goes for very loud moments in music that send me scrambling for the knob. Jason did mention one may hear some clicks when plugging in as well.  I kind of find it more odd that the one Lyr doesn't have it than that the one does.  I've experienced the phenomenon on other amps/receivers/sound cards previously.
   
  I haven't owned a DacMagic personally, and I know it's highly rated.  The biggest thing, just from what I've read in more formal reviews is that the DacMagic just has a very different sound signature overall.  I believe 6 Moons (for what it's worth) considered the DacMagic to be a little warm and to have an artificially "enhanced" soundstage that, to their ears, sounded good at first, but after realizing they were hearing it, it started driving them crazy.  The Bifrost by contrast is pure neutral or just bright of neutral.  If one is technically superior I imagine the Bifrost would win, but if your ears are tuned to a specific sound signature, you may or may not appreciate the transparent signature in comparison.


----------



## mikenike

Quote: 





acdoan said:


> It's very common for hi- power amp to produce a thump when being power on. I have owned Adcom and Conrad Johnson SS amps in the past  and they both "thump" .  Speaking from the 2 channel speaker amps, I have never had speakers damage by such "thump" . By adding a soft relay circuitry that will prevent just that. I am fairly new in headphones,so that's another learning curve,
> 
> My fairly new Lyr does not pop but it has a little "tack" when power off if I forget to unplug my headphone before doing so. It's not a biggie to me,
> 
> ...


 

 I get a thump after the relay when I turn it on, and then a smaller thump when turning off (there's also that fireflies-hitting-glass sound before that, which is kinda cool). Is it advisable to turn off the Lyr with the phones plugged out or is it OK to keep it in? I usually turn the volume knob to the lowest setting before switching off.


----------



## ocswing

Quote: 





mikenike said:


> I get a thump after the relay when I turn it on, and then a smaller thump when turning off (there's also that fireflies-hitting-glass sound before that, which is kinda cool). Is it advisable to turn off the Lyr with the phones plugged out or is it OK to keep it in? I usually turn the volume knob to the lowest setting before switching off.


 

 Best practice is to unplug your headphones when toggling the power switch on the Lyr. Your Lyr might have the relay depending on when it was manufactured, and your phones may or may not be tolerant of the thump. Unless you're sure you should unplug your headphones when turning the Lyr on/off.


----------



## ZorgDK

Quote: 





ocswing said:


> Best practice is to unplug your headphones when toggling the power switch on the Lyr. Your Lyr might have the relay depending on when it was manufactured, and your phones may or may not be tolerant of the thump. Unless you're sure you should unplug your headphones when turning the Lyr on/off.


 

 I'm sure you're correct, but being lazy as I am, I've never unplugged my headphones when turning on/off the Lyr. No problems so far, I have one of the first Lyr's with no relay.


----------



## paradoxper

I believe it's my turn to attest to Jason and Schiits Phenomenal Customer Service. Bifrost shipped with no power chord, no rubber feet. Contacted Jason, no questions asked. He followed up and shipped both out to me. I know this is small, who doesn't have a power chord laying around, or rubber feet for that matter.
  You should get what you pay for, no matter how small the inconvenience. Jason is simply stellar. Also, never waited more than a day..err, a few hours for a reply back. Monday-Sunday. Dude is on his game and seriously appreciates his customers. I'd like to say I'm a lifer. But, after statement Schiit comes out, I may be out. Well, until......


----------



## shaunybaby

i found this really cool picture hope you guys enjoy!


----------



## Falkirk Bairn

Hi everyone
   
  Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.
   
  I have just bought a new Schiit Lyr from a UK shop and I love it.  However I am having problems with it.  It is the UK voltage version.  Can anyone advise me if the following is normal for this amp:
   
  The amp is vibrating, not enough to hear but when you touch it, especially over where the transformers are I can feel a noticeable vibration.  This happens all the time it is switched on.  Is this the "hum" I've read about on-line that some people get?
   
  When the volume is turned off but headphones still plugged in I can hear a faint but slightly annoying intermittent electrical high pitched noise at night time when there are no environmental noised to mask it.
   
  The power cord doesn't fit properly into it's socket on the rear of the unit, it fell out once last night.
   
  Equipment:  Rega Apollo cd player, Schiit Lyr, Audeze LCD-2 headphones.
   
  Many thanks


----------



## Carlsan

Sounds like you have a problem. Never had that problem with mine.
  I would also contact Schiit directly.


----------



## leoily

I really want this!


----------



## Trance_Gott

I drive my LCD2 and T1 with the Lyr. Is it normal that the Lyr is not complete dead silent at lowest volume position? I can hear a very light hum in quiet environment, it don't disturb when music plays but it is there when i exact listen to the headphones. I tested with a few tubes, same result. It not depends on the source because i have disconnect my CDP. My other amplifiers are dead silent. With a low impendance phone like W1000x and SRH940 the hum is loud but this is normal because Lyr design is only for high impendance.


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I drive my LCD2 and T1 with the Lyr. Is it normal that the Lyr is not complete dead silent at lowest volume position? I can hear a very light hum in quiet environment, it don't disturb when music plays but it is there when i exact listen to the headphones. I tested with a few tubes, same result. It not depends on the source because i have disconnect my CDP. My other amplifiers are dead silent. With a low impendance phone like W1000x and SRH940 the hum is loud but this is normal because Lyr design is only for high impendance.


 
   
  Its caused by grounding issues. Not sure if its your supply or the design itself. Another poster had this problem, he was told his headphones were too sensitive (I think AKG 240 MKII which are pretty low sensitivity).


----------



## Trance_Gott

I thought it only can be a ground issue when source is connected. I saw RCA ground loop isolator cable. But the problem is there without connected to source.
  I tested a few electrical socket in the house. What can I do?


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I thought it only can be a ground issue when source is connected. I saw RCA ground loop isolator cable. But the problem is there without connected to source.
> I tested a few electrical socket in the house. What can I do?


 
  Yes, the humming is caused by the AC voltage. Your home wiring possibly is connected to ground through different paths (most is), hence there's a ground loop. One way to remove the ground loop is use an isolation power supply. But first you can try unplugging other appliances if they share the same line as the socket you connect the amp to.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





falkirk bairn said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That sounds pretty strange.   There is definitely some transformer noise on the Lyr if you put your ear to it.  It's possible that could induce some faint vibration, but I don't think anything like what you're talking about.   You mentioned a really loose fitting power cord, I wonder how much of that could be related?  If it's not making solid contact, or is getting intermittent power, I wonder if that could have this sort of effect/  The first thing to do may be just to try a different NEMA power cord.  I'm not sure about the UK models, but I assume you can use any old PC power cord like you can on the US models. If that doesn't help, it may be RMA time.
   
  Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I drive my LCD2 and T1 with the Lyr. Is it normal that the Lyr is not complete dead silent at lowest volume position? I can hear a very light hum in quiet environment, it don't disturb when music plays but it is there when i exact listen to the headphones. I tested with a few tubes, same result. It not depends on the source because i have disconnect my CDP. My other amplifiers are dead silent. With a low impendance phone like W1000x and SRH940 the hum is loud but this is normal because Lyr design is only for high impendance.


 
   
  I'm guessing you either have some tube noise (usually it's not a "hum", but it could still be tubes), or you have an electrical issue going on in terms of either a ground loop or noise on the power line.   Make sure there's no dimmer or anything like that that could be interfering as well.  I drove myself crazy for an hour one night with a high pitched ringing in my headphones. It turned out a CFL dimmer on the line was causing the noise throughout the whole house (or most of it.) It's amazing what odd poser issues can cause in terms of audio.  Dimmers tend to cause hum or whine, other appliances could do the same.  Battery chargers, dimmers, heaters, anything with a resistive load is prone to such interference. 
   
  All things equal, you shouldn't be hearing a hum like that.  But other than tubes it may not be an issue with the amp either, but an outside cause.
   
  Quote: 





proton007 said:


> Yes, the humming is caused by the AC voltage. Your home wiring possibly is connected to ground through different paths (most is), hence there's a ground loop. One way to remove the ground loop is use an isolation power supply. But first you can try unplugging other appliances if they share the same line as the socket you connect the amp to.


 
   
  +2!


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> Yes, the humming is caused by the AC voltage. Your home wiring possibly is connected to ground through different paths (most is), hence there's a ground loop. One way to remove the ground loop is use an isolation power supply. But first you can try unplugging other appliances if they share the same line as the socket you connect the amp to.


 
   
  You can temporarily try a cheater plug, just to see if the hum goes away.  An isolation transformer is your best long-term solution.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> You can temporarily try a cheater plug, just to see if the hum goes away.*  An isolation transformer is your best long-term solution.*


 
   
  $$$$$, unfortunately.


----------



## Trance_Gott

I tried a other power cable. Same problem. I think It's a design problem of the Lyr or a tube noise. As I say It's very quiet. All my other amplifier don't make problems.
  Isolation Transformer?
  Can anybody aknowledge that Lyr is absoulety dead silent with LCD2?


----------



## weitn

I am thinking of getting some proper feets to raise Lyr about half inch to an inch high. I think Lyr runs cooler when slightly raise. I am currently using Lego blocks to raise Lyr. Yup! Lego blocks and it works but it is time to get some proper feets.
   
  Found below Rubber Bumper Non-skid Feet at amazon.com. Looks like Lyr's stock rubber feets but bigger. Does anyone know if these feets are able to with stand the hot temperature of Lyr? Can anyone recommend any value for money feets which suitable for Lyr? Thanks.
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U6ZDU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=A1EPE8IE7JPHY4


----------



## proton007

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> I tried a other power cable. Same problem. I think It's a design problem of the Lyr or a tube noise. As I say It's very quiet. All my other amplifier don't make problems.
> Isolation Transformer?
> Can anybody aknowledge that Lyr is absoulety dead silent with LCD2?


 
   
  Did you try using the amp on a single point? Try unplugging all appliances in your room, and try.
  If still no solution, you might have to get an isolation transformer, otherwise unfortunately, you need to change your amp with some other model, maybe Asgard.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





weitn said:


> I am thinking of getting some proper feets to raise Lyr about half inch to an inch high. I think Lyr runs cooler when slightly raise. I am currently using Lego blocks to raise Lyr. Yup! Lego blocks and it works but it is time to get some proper feets.
> 
> Found below Rubber Bumper Non-skid Feet at amazon.com. Looks like Lyr's stock rubber feets but bigger. Does anyone know if these feets are able to with stand the hot temperature of Lyr? Can anyone recommend any value for money feets which suitable for Lyr? Thanks.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U6ZDU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=A1EPE8IE7JPHY4


 
   
  I use those feet for my Lyr and Bifrost. They're good for elevating the components higher than the stock feet and there's no issue with the heat from the Lyr. Only issue is that the feet compress slightly under the weight of the components and the Lyr is a tad uneven a result as one side of the amp is heavier than the other.


----------



## Trance_Gott

Jason Stoddard from Schiit wrote me an answer: "Sounds like it might be normal low-level hum." This means for me Lyr is never dead silent. As i told it was a very low noise. Not a typical noticeable 50hz hum. So everything is okay. It's a shame that the Lyr produce a very noticeble noise with my low impendance phone except I use a 120ohm resistor. But with T1 and LCD2 it sounds great!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> Jason Stoddard from Schiit wrote me an answer: "Sounds like it might be normal low-level hum." This means for me Lyr is never dead silent. As i told it was a very low noise. Not a typical noticeable 50hz hum. So everything is okay. It's a shame that the Lyr produce a very noticeble noise with my low impendance phone except I use a 120ohm resistor. But with T1 and LCD2 it sounds great!


 
   
  I'm surprised he'd say that.  I don't have LCD-2, but with HD650, K702, HE-400 (also planar, and more efficient than LCD2, though I believe higher impedance), it's dead silent.  The only can that picks up noise (and a lot of it) is D5000, and that's all tube noise. 
   
  Are you sure it may not be your SOURCE that's picking up the hum and Lyr is just magnifying it?  Did you try a different source, even an iPod on an LOD cable or something?


----------



## Trance_Gott

Quote: 





iemcrazy said:


> I'm surprised he'd say that.  I don't have LCD-2, but with HD650, K702, HE-400 (also planar, and more efficient than LCD2, though I believe higher impedance), it's dead silent.  The only can that picks up noise (and a lot of it) is D5000, and that's all tube noise.
> 
> Are you sure it may not be your SOURCE that's picking up the hum and Lyr is just magnifying it?  Did you try a different source, even an iPod on an LOD cable or something?


 

 Are you sure it is dead silent? Put the headphone on before connect it to the lyr. Go to a dead silent room. Connect it to the lyr. Do you hear an difference? It is a very very quiet noise you only can hear when you apply on this.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> Are you sure it is dead silent? Put the headphone on before connect it to the lyr. Go to a dead silent room. Connect it to the lyr. Do you hear an difference? It is a very very quiet noise you only can hear when you apply on this.


 
   
  How dead silent must the room be for the test?   A single blower with its own hum in the background may not count as entirely silent.  But I'm very sensitive to any little noise coming out of the amp.  Particularly in higher frequencies though.  If there were something from the low frequencies that was so silent I wouldn't be able to hear it without modifying the environment I may not hear it.  
   
  I hear nothing different on the Lyr with the HE-400, K702, and HD650 in terms of background noise than I do on an SS amp.  Occasionally I get a high pitched whine coming out of one tube or another and have resigned myself to the idea that the GE's just tend to do that now and again.  One time I blamed tubes and it was the source (apparently Squeezebox Touch is sensitive to if the power connector is slightly pulled out and starts emitting all sorts of noise into the signal ranging from whines to wifi RFI.)   On my old, bad, microphonic tubes, if I turned the volume to 11 o'clock or beyond I could hear a bit of a hum to the gain.  However, for no reason but an amazingly weak source signal or incredibly hard to drive headphones would the volume need to be elevated near there, and that was only with badly microphonic tubes.
   
  What source are you using?  Did you try the lyr with no source or cable connected at all to rule out source issues? 
   
  Either the hum you're talking about is source induced, or is so quiet that it's beyond even my annoyingly acute hearing, or you've got something on the power grid that's inducing it. Maybe it's coming from the Lyr, but that doesn't seem right unless it's a tube issue combined with a noisy power supply.
   
  Believe me, I know how annoying pinning down tiny noises from the amp can be....I do it all the time when the whine introduces itself.  It keeps my eyes on the tube rolling thread


----------



## Trance_Gott

It not depends on source. It is there with no source connected. But it is so quiet that It don't disturb me even. Today I'm with my wife in the living room and hear over my T1. I cannot hear any noise at lowest level. I think I have made myself crazy without a reason.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





trance_gott said:


> It not depends on source. It is there with no source connected. But it is *so quiet that It don't disturb me *even. Today I'm with my wife in the living room and hear over my T1. I cannot hear any noise at lowest level.* I think I have made myself crazy without a reason.*


 
   
  I think you've got it now


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





proton007 said:


> Did you try using the amp on a single point? *Try unplugging all appliances in your room, and try.*
> If still no solution, you might have to get an isolation transformer, otherwise unfortunately, you need to change your amp with some other model, maybe Asgard.


 
   THIS!
   
  I've used a cheater plug for years on tube gear connected to a Tripp Lite LCD2400 power conditioner.


----------



## Falkirk Bairn

The vibrating problem I had has been 80% solved by putting higher than the standard issue sorbothane feet on my lyr, but mainly by throwing away the mains cable that came with it and replacing it with a decent one.  The original cable had badly bent conductors inside, preventing it from accepting the three "prongs" in the socket on the back of the Lyr properly, hence why it fell out on two occasions.
   
  There is no audible hum when I put my ear to the Lyr, it vibrates gently, which doesn't seem to much to worry about I think.
   
  I can hear through my Audeze LCD-2, even when the Lyr volume is turned off an infrequent faint high pitched electrical noise.  I don't think this is an earthing issue as my source, a Rega Apollo cd player, has no earth pin in its socket in the rear (it looks like it has been like that from new) and they are both plugged into a mains conditioner.
   
  I have not had a valve amp before, I guess what I am hearing could be a tube characteristic?
   
  Apart from these minor issues, I am over the moon with the Lyr.  The fantastic build quality (ignoring the embarrassingly bad mains cable), the beautiful design, but most of all, to my ears, the beautiful sound quality.  I've never heard anything like it before combined with my LCD-2's and the Apollo.


----------



## adydula

My Lyr with LCD 2 Rev2's is dead silent....
   
  Alex


----------



## mikiphile

My Lyr is also dead silent.. only a pair of old Czechoslovakian JJs sometimes causes the tiniest noise detectable, otherwise dead silent.
   
  Jason and Mike are doing a miracle with their gear.. it just CANNOT be that good. I am more than just pleased... Yet, I still havent heard the bunch with my own K701s, this is only going to happen in a month... soo excited bout this!


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





falkirk bairn said:


> *I can hear through my Audeze LCD-2, even when the Lyr volume is turned off an infrequent faint high pitched electrical noise.*  I don't think this is an earthing issue as my source, a Rega Apollo cd player, has no earth pin in its socket in the rear (it looks like it has been like that from new) and they are both plugged into a mains conditioner.
> 
> I have not had a valve amp before, I guess what I am hearing could be a tube characteristic?
> 
> Apart from these minor issues, I am over the moon with the Lyr.  The fantastic build quality (ignoring the embarrassingly bad mains cable), the beautiful design, but most of all, to my ears, the beautiful sound quality.  I've never heard anything like it before combined with my LCD-2's and the Apollo.


 
   
  That is positively tube noise.  I call it "tube screeching" or "whining."   I assume you're using the GE tubes?   I have two Lyrs.  After I got rid of the nasty old Japanese tubes and got some US GEs in there, the microphonics are all but gone, however on the one pair, I get a lot of tube humming for the first 30 minutes or so it's plugged in.   On the other pair I had one REALLY whiny tube.  I swapped it out and things got better, but I still get a quasi-frequent short whine out of the replacement tube as well.  This seems to mostly dissipate after an hour of warmup or so.   After that I only ever hear it very faintly and only on VERY quiet passages like very dynamic classical in the quiet passages. 
   
  Since I discovered long ago, especially for HD650 that the tube have a "magic warmup" of about 45-60 minutes where the sound just changes to be so much smoother and richer, I generally try to warm up for that long anyway just for the SQ advantage.  Getting rid of the whine (or mostly getting rid of it) is an essential side-effect of my warmup ritual.  If I don't have that long to warm it up, I might as well just use my SS amp anyway.
   
  I can't stand that whine, but as long as warmup mostly eliminates it, it's not a big deal.  I'm sure tube rolling would find me a cleaner tube that won't do that, but as long as I know how to avoid it, it's not a huge worry.  If it acts up even after warmup, I'll have to do something about new tubes.


----------



## sperandeo

Here is a contest to win a Schiit Lyr 

http://gearphile.com/showthread.php?421-Schiit-Lyr-Amp-giveaway


----------



## MickeyVee

There's some new Schiit in the house!
  Just picked up my gently used Lyr from the post office about an hour ago.  Set up everything, put the GE tubes in, fired it up and plugged in my HD650's.  It's dead quiet, nice black background. I was really expecting to be blown away. Reserving judgement for now as I'm underwhelmed at this point. It has more power/dynamics than my Matrix but I was expecting it to blow the headphone amp section of the Matrix Mini-i away.  Will let it run for another hour or so and give it another go.
   
  Setup: MacMini running Decibel > Optical > Matrix-Mini-i in DAC mode > Signal Cable Silver Interconnects > Lyr > HD-650.
   
  I do have three other sets of tubes that I can roll (Russian NOS 6H1n, Amperex A-Frame Holland & Lorenz Stuttgart Gray Shield 1960's) but want to give the stock setup some time.


----------



## olor1n

Get those A-frames in there. I preferred them over the Stuttgarts for the HD650.


----------



## MickeyVee

Let the Lyr run all night and day so there was some additional break in.. meh.. next..
  Just dropped the Amperex Holland A-Frame in.. revved everything back up and am going out for a 2 hour ride.   BTW.. the Amperex is giving off a foul smell, can't really describe it and I assume that it's just new tube normal burn off.  Nothing seems to be overheating or smoking after 10 minutes and liking the sound better already but no 'Holy Schiit!' yet. Will see what it's like after my ride. 
   
   
  ~~ Next Day Update ~~
  The house didn't burn down, no more foul smell, let the Amperex tubes run for about 12 hours and swapped out the Matrix Mini-i DAC with the PS Audio DLIII from my main A/V system. *Holy Schiit! Nailed it!* This combo is really sweet. I really can't afford to get a second DLIII but the BiFrost may do. Over to the BiFrost thread to see if there are amy comparisons between the DLIII and BiFrost.


----------



## Carlsan

If tube rolling you should visit this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/549508/schiit-lyr-the-tube-rolling-thread/3360#post_8424286


----------



## WesternE

http://i48.tinypic.com/2jakdpu.jpg This is a measurement of my Lyr with 6.1 Vrms output into my HE-5LE headphones (about 1 watt). It is an amazing performance, the best measured tube or hybrid head-amp I have every seen driving this much power. I am a bit speachless after taking this measurement.


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Let the Lyr run all night and day so there was some additional break in.. meh.. next..
> Just dropped the Amperex Holland A-Frame in.. revved everything back up and am going out for a 2 hour ride.   BTW.. the Amperex is giving off a foul smell, can't really describe it and I assume that it's just new tube normal burn off.  Nothing seems to be overheating or smoking after 10 minutes and liking the sound better already but no 'Holy Schiit!' yet. Will see what it's like after my ride.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The nasty toxic smell isn't the tubes, it's the amp.  It's probably the soldering dope or some protective coating on the trasformer windings or something like that burning off.  Mine stank horribly for about 2 weeks or so each time I'd turn it on.  And I had two of them...in the same room 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  No tube change produced an odor, so it's purely the amp.  it does go away completely though, it's just "new amp smell"


----------



## MickeyVee

Does anyone know when they started putting the relay in the Lyr?  My s/n is 00396. Got mine used a couple of weeks ago. Or is there another way of telling?


----------



## Rebel975

If you turn it on and it "clicks" after ~20 seconds then yours has the relay. Keep in mind that there won't be any output from the headphone jack before it clicks.
   
  Interestingly, there is some very low frequency sound that comes out of the RCA outputs during that warmup period. I have to make sure I turn the amp on before anything else or I get a very bassy surprise. It's pretty scary if I turn my tactile transducer on first by accident lol.


----------



## ninjames

I am going to purchase a Lyr in five days. I had a question ... I have only two outlets in the room I'll be using, and none of them are grounded. I use a nice Belkin surge protector/power strip and have a computer, a TV, a monitor, at times one laptop and at times one phone, and a small desk fan plugged into it. I have two spots open, still. Do you think I'll get any noise running the Lyr on this setup? I have the belkin strip plugged into a cheater plug.
   
  I don't think it's possible for me to ground this single outlet without doing a ton of work on the entire house's wiring. Do people run a similar setup? I could move some of the things to another power strip (but on the same outlet) if that might help? I could move most of them, really. 
   
  If any of you are well-versed in this stuff, would installing a GFCI outlet be beneficial? Kind of a specialty question I know, but I figured that I should ask here where people might have had this experience than have someone else say "well sure I've done this ... with a different amp."
   
  Thanks guys. I'll be using these with a HE-400 for awhile and eventually an LCD-3 and I'm very excited. (I'll actually have this for a few weeks before I have my HE-400 .. will I benefit from using things like my V-Moda, CAL, UE TripleFi and things like that with this in the meantime? Not looking for anything drastic, of course, and I won't have a good DAC for about a month or two .. will get the magic streamer ii for now)


----------



## robertdarzi

Hey guys,
   
  First post on headfi!
   
  Was just wondering, has anyone tried the Lyr with IEMs? The sennheiser IE8 in particular...
   
  Do understand that the IE8s are described as 'dark' by some individuals, but I believe they're natural.
   
  I am curious if they are tonally a good match for the warm Lyrs.
   
  Much appreciated!


----------



## WNBC

For shats and giggles I did use the Hifiman RE-262 with the Lyr.  Very impressive sounding but always quickly switched back to full-sized headphones with the Lyr because of mental images of exploding drivers.  I suppose RE-262 is on the warm side of tonality but never heard the IE8 so can't say they are more or less dark.  I don't find the RE-262 overly dark by any means if that helps.  The warmest headphone I've owned to date would be the ESW9a.
   
  Quote: 





robertdarzi said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> First post on headfi!
> 
> ...


----------



## robertdarzi

Quote: 





wnbc said:


> For shats and giggles I did use the Hifiman RE-262 with the Lyr.  Very impressive sounding but always quickly switched back to full-sized headphones with the Lyr because of mental images of exploding drivers.  I suppose RE-262 is on the warm side of tonality but never heard the IE8 so can't say they are more or less dark.  I don't find the RE-262 overly dark by any means if that helps.  The warmest headphone I've owned to date would be the ESW9a.


 
  Thanks WNBC 
   
  Have you tried them with Hifiman Planars (or other electrostats) btw? Would love to someday invest in a pair, but am currently in two minds about divesting myself of my headphone gear


----------



## disastermouse

Where do you guys BUY GE and other tubes?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> Where do you guys BUY GE and other tubes?


 
  From Schiit, Tubemonger, Upscaleaudio, Audiotubes, Ebay . com 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (And other Head-Fiers)


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> From Schiit, Tubemonger, Upscaleaudio, Audiotubes, Ebay . com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But how do you know what fits?  I have a Dice Audio tube amp ipod/iphone speaker system and I have no idea what tubes to get for it when they eventually go out.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> But how do you know what fits?  I have a Dice Audio tube amp ipod/iphone speaker system and I have no idea what tubes to get for it when they eventually go out.


 
  The ITPA-220 takes dual 6n3 tubes.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> The ITPA-220 takes dual 6n3 tubes.


 
  6n3 'what' ?  There seem to be a lot of options with WILDLY varying prices.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> 6n3 'what' ?  There seem to be a lot of options with WILDLY varying prices.


 
  6n3 is the tube type. Yea, tube prices do vary.
   
   
   
  PS Do you have a Lyr? I am a bit confused about if you're just looking for tubes for your DICE.


----------



## WNBC

The Lyr + LCD-2 was quite a good pairing.  Lyr drives most orthos with authority, excellent dynamics and soundstage.  Lively presentation.  Myself and others specifically sought out the Lyr when it was first released to feed the power hungry orthos.  Never got to try the HE-500 with the Lyr though.   
   
  BTW, the IE8 is a very efficient earphone.  I wouldn't necessary want to plug it in the Lyr.  The RE-262 is fairly inefficient, it was born and raised to be paired with amps.  
   
  Quote: 





robertdarzi said:


> Thanks WNBC
> 
> Have you tried them with Hifiman Planars (or other electrostats) btw? Would love to someday invest in a pair, but am currently in two minds about divesting myself of my headphone gear


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> 6n3 is the tube type. Yea, tube prices do vary.
> 
> 
> 
> PS Do you have a Lyr? I am a bit confused about if you're just looking for tubes for your DICE.


 
   
  I'm looking into a Lyr for my HD 650s so I can then drive the planar magnetics (HiFiMan or Audeze) when I eventually upgrade.  Question:  Will the Lyr blow up my HD 650s if I have them plugged in when I turn on the amp?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> I'm looking into a Lyr for my HD 650s so I can then drive the planar magnetics (HiFiMan or Audeze) when I eventually upgrade.  Question:  Will the Lyr blow up my HD 650s if I have them plugged in when I turn on the amp?


 
  No, it won't, but you should always have the volume turned down to 0 as safe common practice.


----------



## robertdarzi

wnbc said:


> The Lyr + LCD-2 was quite a good pairing.  Lyr drives most orthos with authority, excellent dynamics and soundstage.  Lively presentation.  Myself and others specifically sought out the Lyr when it was first released to feed the power hungry orthos.  Never got to try the HE-500 with the Lyr though.
> 
> BTW, the IE8 is a very efficient earphone.  I wouldn't necessary want to plug it in the Lyr.  The RE-262 is fairly inefficient, it was born and raised to be paired with amps.




Okiedokie. Thanks!

That said, do remember trying out the IE8s with tube amps whose names I've now forgotten. They were good stuff.


----------



## adydula

www.boiaudioworks.com or Schitt audio website..
   
  for tubes....good prices, matched pairs ...
   
  Alex


----------



## Kremer930

Just as a further clarifying suggestion. Turn the volume to zero, turn on the Lyr and then plug in your cans. This should be used for all amps just for safety. For turning off...volume to zero, unplug cans and then power off amp.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





kremer930 said:


> Just as a further clarifying suggestion. Turn the volume to zero, turn on the Lyr and then plug in your cans. This should be used for all amps just for safety. For turning off...volume to zero, unplug cans and then power off amp.


 
  If this is realistically expected, I won't be buying a Lyr.  The E9 is just fine and won't blow out my headphones when I turn it on with the headphones intact.
   
  This may seem like a meaningless sacrifice for most, but I have ADHD and I WON'T remember to take them out.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> If this is realistically expected, I won't be buying a Lyr.  The E9 is just fine and won't blow out my headphones when I turn it on with the headphones intact.
> 
> This may seem like a meaningless sacrifice for most, but I have ADHD and I WON'T remember to take them out.


 
  This is realistically expected of any headphone amplifier. Hence the "this is safe common practice."
   
  Now you don't have to do this with the Lyr regardless of the headphone.
  But we suspect you're sensible. Now just remember when you do not ever unplug your headphones, 
  when turning on/off Lyr to keep the volume at 0. Sure, you'll still get the really nasty pop in your headphones. But they may survive.


----------



## disastermouse

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> This is realistically expected of any headphone amplifier. Hence the "this is safe common practice."
> 
> Now you don't have to do this with the Lyr regardless of the headphone.
> But we suspect you're sensible. Now just remember when you do not ever unplug your headphones,
> when turning on/off Lyr to keep the volume at 0. Sure, you'll still get the really nasty pop in your headphones. But they may survive.


 
  I can remember to turn the volume to zero.  Also, it might be something I can work into a ritual with a tube amp.  I never turn my SS amp off because I'm not worried about tube life or power draw.  Maybe if I had to turn it on and off, I'd be able to remember to unplug the headphones.  I don't know....I know me and it makes me a little worried.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





disastermouse said:


> I can remember to turn the volume to zero.  Also, it might be something I can work into a ritual with a tube amp.  I never turn my SS amp off because I'm not worried about tube life or power draw.  Maybe if I had to turn it on and off, I'd be able to remember to unplug the headphones.  I don't know....I know me and it makes me a little worried.


 
  That still applies to SS amps as well, but seeing as you never turn it off you've never really had to be mindful.
   
  Just remember this I doubt you can forget about the Lyr being on, it runs hot, hot enough to notice or not forget about it.
  But if you can't seem to "train" yourself to get into that habit I'd rather you not have the Lyr than blow your headphones up.
   
  I'll hope you do end up with the Lyr it's a great amp especially when ya get into the journey of tube rolling. Best of luck!


----------



## Jason Stoddard

Hey all,
   
  To clarify: all current Lyrs have relay mute on turn-on and turn-off, so you can leave your headphones plugged in all the time if you'd like. However, I personally still like the extra safety of unplugging before turn-off and plugging in after the relay has engaged. It's an old habit--hard to get rid of.
   
  All the best,
  Jason


----------



## Yuceka

Hmm pluggin iems into the LYR 
   
  Let's imagine what would happen if you put 1000 horsepower into a Mini... There are literally hundreds and hundreds of options for iems and the LYR isn't one of them. Come on people.


----------



## SeaHawk

I wonder if my Shure SE530's would go up like San Diego's show last night...  18 seconds of pure excitement followed by stunned silence as the smoke slowly drifts away..
  (with apologies to my SD friends )


----------



## Meoow

I would love to hear recommendation straight from the man himself. If I would have to choose between the 3 Amp (Asgard, Valhalla and Lyr), which is best for a good neutral sounding (_since I think neutral sounding Amp would bring out the true colours of different headphones/brands_) that would fit all of my headphones (_please have a look at my profile_)
   
  I will be buying Bifrost as my main DAC


----------



## adydula

Meoow...
   
  I have had both amps the Lyr and the Agard and in your profile i see you have 702's  had these as well with both amps...both amps work very well with the 702's and I preferred the Lyr over the Asgard...personal preference...
   
  All the best
  Ale


----------



## WesternE

jason stoddard said:


> Hey all,
> 
> To clarify: all current Lyrs have relay mute on turn-on and turn-off, so you can leave your headphones plugged in all the time if you'd like. However, I personally still like the extra safety of unplugging before turn-off and plugging in after the relay has engaged. It's an old habit--hard to get rid of.
> 
> ...



 
 I would never turn-on/off a headamp with the phones pluged in. Does the new relay show measureable added hum over the pre-relay model? Just a little hum can really add IMD. I guess I am a purist that never liked a relay coil near the output, will I void my warranty if I by-pass it ?


----------



## caracara08

i must be mistaken, but isnt there an amp where it is recommended that headphones be plugged in when turning on?  i always left my headphones plugged in because i thought that was how to do things. guess i was wrong


----------



## IEMCrazy

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> i must be mistaken, but isnt there an amp where it is recommended that headphones be plugged in when turning on?  i always left my headphones plugged in because i thought that was how to do things. guess i was wrong


 
  I can't remember which one it was, but someone in the HD650 thread pointed out instructions from a particular amp vendor that did suggest cycling the power with the headphones plugged in as best practice instead of the other way around.  I wish I could remember which brand it was.  That would definitely be the exception to the rule.
   
  Woo's FAQ has a Q about "can I unplug my headphones while it's on" and the answer is something to the effect of "It _probably_ will be fine, but be certain to at least turn the volume to zero" indicating that doing so may not be his first recommendation.  It all depends on the design I suppose...but the most common is plugging/unplugging while the device is on it seems.  And consider every iPod, game handheld, PC, etc out there is generally going to be ON when you're plugging in.  It's a less powerful amp, but it's still an amp.


----------



## adydula

Turn On:
   
  1. Source On, Amp on with volume all the way down.
  2. Plug cans in.
  3. Play music from player etc.
  4. Slowly turn up volume..and listen...
   
  Turn Off:
   
  1. Stop Source, turn volume ALL the way down.
  2. Remove cans from plug.
  3. Power off amp.
  4. Power off Source.
   
  Go to bed....
   
  Alex


----------



## Rope

^^
  Is it it imperative I go to bed after powering down my gear?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> ^^
> Is it it imperative I go to bed after powering down my gear?


 
  What the hell else ya gonna do? huh....


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> What the hell else ya gonna do? huh....


 
   I'll feel awfully strange going to bed at 6:30pm.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





rope said:


> I'll feel awfully strange going to bed at 6:30pm.


 
  Yea, that is weird. I'll admit that I was under the impressions that we all listen to our gear until 3-4 am religiously.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Yea, that is weird. I'll admit that I was under the impressions that we all listen to our gear until 3-4 am religiously.


 
  I'm not that religious.  1:00am is my bed time, but that's cause I'm old.


----------



## jsplice

Ordered my Lyr yesterday, it shipped today.  Unfortunately, the amp has a long way to travel (from CA to PA), so I probably won't have it until week's end.
   
  I'm anxious to hear how the Lyr sounds with my HD650s, but I'm very skeptical that it will outclass my PS Audio GCHA.  The GCHA has outstanding transparency, textures, and soundstage; however, I feel that it lacks that ultimate control of the drivers that yields powerful, deep bass, and strong rhythmic dynamics.  Nonetheless, it's an extremely enjoyable amp, and can satisfy for a very long time.  But as this hobby goes, eventually you just get tired of the same sound and need a change.  I'm hoping that the Lyr will give me that strong rhythmic drive I'm looking for, but as to what will be compromised to get that sound when compared to the GCHA, that has yet to be heard by me.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Ordered my Lyr yesterday, it shipped today.  Unfortunately, the amp has a long way to travel (from CA to PA), so I probably won't have it until week's end.
> 
> I'm anxious to hear how the Lyr sounds with my HD650s, but I'm very skeptical that it will outclass my PS Audio GCHA.  The GCHA has outstanding transparency, textures, and soundstage; however, I feel that it lacks that ultimate control of the drivers that yields powerful, deep bass, and strong rhythmic dynamics.  Nonetheless, it's an extremely enjoyable amp, and can satisfy for a very long time.  But as this hobby goes, eventually you just get tired of the same sound and need a change.  I'm hoping that the Lyr will give me that strong rhythmic drive I'm looking for, but as to what will be compromised to get that sound when compared to the GCHA, that has yet to be heard by me.


 
  Keep your purse out because the Lyr is a gateway drug.  To to get the best out of it is to start tube rolling.  Your HD650's will work wonderfully with the Lyr as the HD650's scale with what you put in front of them.  The ability to change the sound character of the Lyr by tube rolling is one of its greatest strengths.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> Keep your purse out because the Lyr is a gateway drug.  To to get the best out of it is to start tube rolling.  Your HD650's will work wonderfully with the Lyr as the HD650's scale with what you put in front of them.  The ability to change the sound character of the Lyr by tube rolling is one of its greatest strengths.


 
  +1
   
  Return the Lyr and get the Mjolnir as to avoid the $1000-$3000 deficit caused by tube rolling.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> Keep your purse out because the Lyr is a gateway drug.  To to get the best out of it is to start tube rolling.  Your HD650's will work wonderfully with the Lyr as the HD650's scale with what you put in front of them.  The ability to change the sound character of the Lyr by tube rolling is one of its greatest strengths.


 
  Actually it's funny you should say that, because my dad has a pair of the Red Wine Audio Signature 70.2 monoblocks, which happen to use the same type of tube that's in the Lyr.  He's got a few very good sets of NOS tubes (Amperex, Tellefunken, etc.) that I plan on trying out in the Lyr so I can figure out what kind of tube matches best with the HD650.  I also like the idea that this amp will eventually let me sufficiently power a set of HE-500s for when my wallet is ready


----------



## Lee Harvey

jsplice said:


> Actually it's funny you should say that, because my dad has a pair of the Red Wine Audio Signature 70.2 monoblocks, which happen to use the same type of tube that's in the Lyr.  He's got a few very good sets of NOS tubes (Amperex, Tellefunken, etc.) that I plan on trying out in the Lyr so I can figure out what kind of tube matches best with the HD650.  I also like the idea that this amp will eventually let me sufficiently power a set of HE-500s for when my wallet is ready





I am waiting until after I go to CanJam in October to purchase my next pair of headphones. I bought the Lyr so I can support orthos. CanJam will give me a chance to listen to the HE-500's and the LCD-2's again before I decide which ones to get.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





lee harvey said:


> I am waiting until after I go to CanJam in October to purchase my next pair of headphones. I bought the Lyr so I can support orthos. CanJam will give me a chance to listen to the HE-500's and the LCD-2's again before I decide which ones to get.


 
  Oh man, good luck getting the best of impressions from a meet. The HE-500's and LCD-2 are both great cans. I'd surmise it comes down to your preferences.


----------



## sridhar3

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Oh man, good luck getting the best of impressions from a meet.


 
   
  Yeah, that's a tall order.  Though who knows, you may be able to.  The CanJam room wasn't too loud last year.
   
  You might consider using the headphone library (rental service) from The Cable Co. and just doing an in-home demo of both.


----------



## Lee Harvey

Quote: 





sridhar3 said:


> Yeah, that's a tall order.  Though who knows, you may be able to.  The CanJam room wasn't too loud last year.
> 
> You might consider using the headphone library (rental service) from The Cable Co. and just doing an in-home demo of both.


 
   
   
  Thanks for the suggestion to use the Cable Co. for demo headphones.


----------



## jsplice

Ok well here are some early first impressions on the Lyr.  Out of the box, I'm very impressed.  I'm going to try and stay reserved until the amp has been fully burned in (only have about 2 hours of play time on it so far).  But man, the power this thing puts out.  I did not expect such a difference with my HD650 between the PS Audio GCHA and the Lyr.  Don't get me wrong, the GCHA has its strengths; but the Lyr just seems to be breathing new life into these headphones.  I think the problem with the GCHA matched with the HD650 is that the GCHA is a tad rolled off in the treble.  That would be great for certain headphones, but the HD650s are already warm sounding headphones.
   
  I'll post more impressions later after both the Lyr and my ears have burned in.
   
  On a side note, I've got a pair of T1's on the way to try out with this amp.  Should be an interesting time.


----------



## Rope

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> +1
> 
> Return the Lyr and get the Mjolnir as to avoid the $1000-$3000 deficit caused by tube rolling.


 
  LOL!


----------



## jsplice

Ok here are a few of my notes I've been taking since yesterday:
   
  Just received the Lyr today (Friday, July 27, 2012). Right now I have about 7 hours on the amp, and it's sounding pretty good. Compared to the PS Audio GCHA, I notice that the Lyr has more transparency, which could simply be the result of the amp being less rolled off in the treble than the GCHA. The PS Audio has always been noted by other users as having a rolled off sound. The PS Audio does have a very liquid sound to it, but the Lyr maintains a bit of that liquidity while also bringing more dynamics and control to the table. The two sounds are still very different, however. Right now I'm listening to John Mayer's "Stop This Train", and even at a moderate volume, everything sounds very nuanced and controlled, but you can still hear a bit of that tube magic within the harmonic textures. The PS Audio did have a bit of specialness to the textures, but it wasn't quite like tube sound. There's just something very distinctive about tube sound; it adds an emotional quality to the music. The Lyr seems to provide better "separation" of the instruments, with a more expansive soundstage. The idea of soundstage when describing headphones seems a bit ridiculous, but once you've heard it, it's understandable. I'm trying to avoid gushing too much right now, simply because the amp is new, and new things have a tendency to sound fantastic at first. But I cannot deny the additional emotion that this amp seems to portray. I will see how this develops even further as the amp burns in. I read people describing the amp as running hot, but I didn't expect it to run this hot. I was disappointed to discover this, as this office room already can get a bit warm during the summer with our computers running. Even though the amp is relatively hot to the touch, it doesn't seems to warm up the room too much overall. I chose to get the amp with the NOS GH 6BZ7 tubes. I don't know how these compare with the second option, which is the JJ E88CC tubes. I may hear just a tad of midrange emphasis from this amp right now, which would also be the result of the tubes. I can't say that I mind it. I have a set of Beyerdynamic T1's on the way coming from the Cable Co. I'll be curious to hear these, but I'm most excited about the Hifiman HE-6 and HE-500s, which are next up after the T1.
   
  I've also read people describing the Lyr as having a "high noise floor", but I'm not just not hearing that with the HD650. The noise floor sounds very low to me, and sounds seem to emerge from a fairly dark background, at least as dark as the PS Audio Amp.
   
  I should also note that at this point, I'm using the PS Audio Digital Link III DAC, the PS Audio UPC-200 power conditioner, and Audience Conductor E interconnects. Power cables are PS Audio and Van Den Hull.
   
   
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
   
  Listening to the Lyr again now after it's been burning in overnight.  Rage Against the Machine's _Bombtrack_ is full of energy, with strong, tight, impactful bass.  I'm hearing the qualities of a good strong solid state amp, but yet things like guitar strings still have that tube lushness to them.  I find that it's dangerously easy to crank up the volume on this amp, just because the sound is so exciting; but I need to be careful with my hearing.  But ironically, it's not to say that this amp doesn't sound good at low volumes.  In fact, I find the Lyr to do a much better job at lower volumes than the GCHA.  
   
  Wow, _Killing in the Name_ just came on, and I'm getting chills.  The guitars have such grunge and bite to them, but have that fantastic tube bloom when it comes to harmonics.  I can't say that I've ever heard a sound like this before; it's pretty hard to describe.  I'm getting very excited to start trying out some good orthyodynamics (or Planar Magnetic, as the kids call them these days).  
   
  One thing that I've noticed with this pairing of the Lyr and HD650 is that the gain does seem to be too high.  I can barely get the volume knob to 9 o clock, and if I take it any higher, I feel like I'm going to start doing damage to my hearing.  In fact, at 8:30, I'm already playing at levels that should not be sustained for long periods.  This could also have something to do with the output voltage of the PS Audio Digital Link III.  I remember in the past some people discussing how it has a slightly higher-than-average output voltage.


----------



## WesternE

jsplice said:


> but the Lyr maintains a bit of that liquidity while also bringing more dynamics and control to the table. The two sounds are still very different, however. But I cannot deny the additional emotion that this amp seems to portray. One thing that I've noticed with this pairing of the Lyr and HD650 is that the gain does seem to be too high.  I can barely get the volume knob to 9 o clock, and if I take it any higher, I feel like I'm going to start doing damage to my hearing.  In fact, at 8:30, I'm already playing at levels that should not be sustained for long periods.  This could also have something to do with the output voltage of the PS Audio Digital Link III.  I remember in the past some people discussing how it has a slightly higher-than-average output voltage.



 
 You describe what I like about this amp. It is a little surprising that the gain seems high to you with the HD650's since they are pretty high impedance so its probably a high output from the DLIII. The 6DJ8 tubes have a little less gain than the 6BZ7 (33 vs 36), so that would be worth trying. If you are using the DLIII with a computer you could also turn down its output a few debibels without degrading SQ using a good software volume control (ie foobar.)


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





westerne said:


> You describe what I like about this amp. It is a little surprising that the gain seems high to you with the HD650's since they are pretty high impedance so its probably a high output from the DLIII. The 6DJ8 tubes have a little less gain than the 6BZ7 (33 vs 36), so that would be worth trying. If you are using the DLIII with a computer you could also turn down its output a few debibels without degrading SQ using a good software volume control (ie foobar.)


 
   
  Thanks for the suggestion.  I will have to put the 6DJ8's on my list for when I want to begin tube rolling.  As for the volume control, I'm currently using a MacBook with the trial version of Audirvana Plus.  I see that the Plus version allows to you use a software volume control, but the Free version of Audirvana does not have that in the options.  I don't think I'm going to spend the money on Audirvana Plus because there are probably other free alternatives.  I don't know that there is any benefit to spending money on expensive software players; I haven't noticed any difference in the sound between any of them, and reviews all over the Internet suggest the same thing.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Thanks for the suggestion.  I will have to put the 6DJ8's on my list for when I want to begin tube rolling.  As for the volume control, I'm currently using a MacBook with the trial version of Audirvana Plus.  I see that the Plus version allows to you use a software volume control, but the Free version of Audirvana does not have that in the options.  I don't think I'm going to spend the money on Audirvana Plus because there are probably other free alternatives.  I don't know that there is any benefit to spending money on expensive software players; I haven't noticed any difference in the sound between any of them, and reviews all over the Internet suggest the same thing.


 
  Just use Bitperfect.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Just use Bitperfect.


 
   
  Looks like the price has been raised to $10 on that.  Not sure it's any better than Audirvana Free, especially since iTunes can't play FLAC, and I'd rather not hack up iTunes to get it to play FLAC.  Is there a clean easy way to play FLAC in iTunes?
   
  Back to the Lyr, got a few more hours on it, but I was away most of this weekend.  One thing about this amp, notes seems to linger and decay so elegantly and correctly.  The level of transparency is good to the point where sometimes I think sounds are coming from other points in the room, when actually they are just parts of the song.  I can only imagine what this is going to sound like with some good orthos.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Looks like the price has been raised to $10 on that.  Not sure it's any better than Audirvana Free, especially since iTunes can't play FLAC, and I'd rather not hack up iTunes to get it to play FLAC.  Is there a clean easy way to play FLAC in iTunes?
> 
> Back to the Lyr, got a few more hours on it, but I was away most of this weekend.  One thing about this amp, notes seems to linger and decay so elegantly and correctly.  The level of transparency is good to the point where sometimes I think sounds are coming from other points in the room, when actually they are just parts of the song.  I can only imagine what this is going to sound like with some good orthos.


 
  I'll feel a bit odd saying this, but $10 is "too much". I think Bitperfect is just a convenient and hassle free gem.
   
  I don't see how converting FLAC to ALAC is very hard, but ok. I remember trying FLUKE however, it created pretty bad lag switching between songs.
   
  Glad you're enjoying your Lyr. I'd urge ya to get some orthos and start tube rolling.


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> I read people describing the amp as running hot, but I didn't expect it to run this hot. I was disappointed to discover this, as this office room already can get a bit warm during the summer with our computers running.


 
   
  Welcome to the Lyr Club! I'm also using the PS Audio DLinkIII and think it sounds terrific with the Lyr.
   
  Oh, and I know what ya mean about the heat from the Lyr...see my sig.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Welcome to the Lyr Club! I'm also using the PS Audio DLinkIII and think it sounds terrific with the Lyr.
> 
> Oh, and I know what ya mean about the heat from the Lyr...see my sig.


 
   
  The Lyr would actually be a step down compared to my "winter system", which is my speaker system.  I have a Primaluna Prologue 2 integrated amp that uses 4 KT88 power tubes.  The Lyr is practically an ice cube by comparison


----------



## MickeyVee

Add me as a third with the DLIII and Lyr, if just temporary.  The DLIII is part of my main a/v system (and far too big for my desk)  so I've got an rDAC coming in.  Anyway, it's an awesome combo.  Hope the rDAC (heard/read the USB implementation is awesome) is a good alternative.
  Anyway, loving the Lyr with the HD700 and HE400.
  Quote: 





oldskool said:


> Welcome to the Lyr Club! I'm also using the PS Audio DLinkIII and think it sounds terrific with the Lyr.
> 
> Oh, and I know what ya mean about the heat from the Lyr...see my sig.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Add me as a third with the DLIII and Lyr, if just temporary.  The DLIII is part of my main a/v system (and far too big for my desk)  so I've got an rDAC coming in.  Anyway, it's an awesome combo.  Hope the rDAC (heard/read the USB implementation is awesome) is a good alternative.
> Anyway, loving the Lyr with the HD700 and HE400.


 
   
  How would you compare the sound of the HD700 versus the HE400 with the Lyr?  Does the price difference correlate to a performance increase?


----------



## MickeyVee

They are very different cans.  When I had the HD650, I pretty much split my time with them and the HE400. Now that the HD700 have broken in and lost it's edginess, the HE400 are not getting much love.
   
  The HD700 are more airy, open and much less dark (they do have a bit of a dark side while maintaining great mids with sparkle.. not sure how to explain it). The HE400 sound dull relative to the Senns.  As far as bass goes, the HD700 is tighter, quicker, much more natural and pleasing. If I had to choose between them, it would be the HD700 hands down.
  I listen to a lot of Enigma, 80s & 90s remix dance and new wave and female vocal.  Plus Patricia Barber, Frank Sinatra, Michael Buble, Eva Cassidy, throw in some Supertramp, Dire Straits, AC/DC and Eagles.. all are simply stunning on the HD700 with the Lyr (running the stock GE tubes right now)
   
  Not sure how to answer the value question but I definitely feel the HD700 just smokes the HE400 (with the Lyr).  I purchased the Lyr because I fell in love with the LCD2 last year.  Got sidetracked with the HE400 and HD700. My Christmas present to myself will be the LCD2 rev 2 (and it will probably replace the HE400)
  If I listen to just the HE400s for a while, they're quite fun and enjoyable - definitely a superb value - just can't go back and forth between the two.
   
   
  Quote: 





jsplice said:


> How would you compare the sound of the HD700 versus the HE400 with the Lyr?  Does the price difference correlate to a performance increase?


----------



## OldSkool

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Add me as a third with the DLIII and Lyr, if just temporary.  The DLIII is part of my main a/v system (and far too big for my desk)  so I've got an rDAC coming in.  Anyway, it's an awesome combo.  Hope the rDAC (heard/read the USB implementation is awesome) is a good alternative.
> Anyway, loving the Lyr with the HD700 and HE400.


 

 Hey Mark! Glad you are still loving your Lyr!
   
  I see you added a Dragonfly. Hows it sound?


----------



## MickeyVee

It's actually stunning with the HD700. Been running it non stop for the last week or so to burn in. By far, the best portable solution I've tried. For me, it's a keeper. Done with looking for my ultimate portable setup with the MacBook Air. 
If the rDAC works out, also done with my desktop solution too. MacMini > rDAC > Lyr!




oldskool said:


> Hey Mark! Glad you are still loving your Lyr!
> 
> I see you added a Dragonfly. Hows it sound?


----------



## jsplice

Well I received the T1's today, so the HD650's are taking a break.  I'm surprised to find that I'im not really enjoying the T1's with the Lyr as much as the HD650s.  T1's sound a bit edgy to my ears.  They definitely have much greater detail retrieval than the 650's, and have a greater dynamic range (which is probably being helped a lot by the Lyr), but the 650's just have a certain magic to them.  I can listen to them and forget I even have headphones on, or I can focus in and hear good detail.  I feel like the T1's are throwing the detail at my ears a little too hard.  These are loaner cans, so maybe they aren't fully burned in yet.  Either way, I have a feeling I won't be pursuing a purchase of the T1's.


----------



## MacedonianHero

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Well I received the T1's today, so the HD650's are taking a break.  I'm surprised to find that I'im not really enjoying the T1's with the Lyr as much as the HD650s.  T1's sound a bit edgy to my ears.  They definitely have much greater detail retrieval than the 650's, and have a greater dynamic range (which is probably being helped a lot by the Lyr), but the 650's just have a certain magic to them.  I can listen to them and forget I even have headphones on, or I can focus in and hear good detail.  I feel like the T1's are throwing the detail at my ears a little too hard.  These are loaner cans, so maybe they aren't fully burned in yet.  Either way, I have a feeling I won't be pursuing a purchase of the T1's.


 
  Yeah, the Lyr/T1 match was only ok, not great.


----------



## weitn

HD650 sound great with Bifrost and Lyr but sometimes I want to play the music loud while I do something around my room. So I dig out this 10 years old Sony DAV-C770 5.1 Home Theatre system. Connect Bifrost and Lyr to it (see my setup below). I was surprised that it actually sounds quite good. The bottleneck here is the old Sony speakers. Can’t wait to upgrade to bookshelf speakers or active speakers. I am glad I can use the Bifrost and Lyr with a/v receiver or power amplifier for speakers. I don’t have to buy a separate DAC or preamp.

 Laptop (flac) -> USB -> Bifrost -> Lyr (preamp out) -> Sony DAV-C770 -> 3 (Right, Center, Left) speakers & 1 subwoofer (3.1)


----------



## jsplice

Why are your tubes in the Lyr sitting so high? I assume this is something you have done to make swapping tubes easier?


----------



## Mr.Tom

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Why are your tubes in the Lyr sitting so high? I assume this is something you have done to make swapping tubes easier?


 
  Ya, whats up with that? Are you running 6n6p's?


----------



## Rope

Socket savers, or 6FQ7/6CG7 tubes?
   
  Rope


----------



## bizkid

How does the lyr pair with the shure 1840?


----------



## lja1125

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Add me as a third with the DLIII and Lyr, if just temporary.  The DLIII is part of my main a/v system (and far too big for my desk)  so I've got an rDAC coming in.  Anyway, it's an awesome combo.  Hope the rDAC (heard/read the USB implementation is awesome) is a good alternative.
> Anyway, loving the Lyr with the HD700 and HE400.


 
  Hi,
   
  How does LYR work with DLIII???
   
  I just bought HE-500 and LYR, and am looking for a DAC.
   
  I'd like to buy bifrost, but now it's not available, and i just found used DLIII. It looks good, but only one thing i concern is DLIII only supports 24/96 with usb.
   
  but, I think 24/96 is enough for me. so, will LYR + HE-500 + DLIII be good combo???


----------



## MickeyVee

It's an awesome combo!  Before I got my BiFrost, I used my DLIII with it (it's par of my main AV system).  Went with the Bifrost for looks, space (stacks nicely) and of course, the sound.  I think I actually preferred the sound of the DLIII.  You should be quite happy with it.
  BTW, there's a picture of the DLIII/BiFrost combo in my gallery.
  Quote: 





lja1125 said:


> Hi,
> 
> How does LYR work with DLIII???
> 
> ...


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





lja1125 said:


> Hi,
> 
> How does LYR work with DLIII???
> 
> ...


 
  The DL III does *not* support 24/96 over USB.  The max is 16/48 I believe.


----------



## MickeyVee

Technicalities aside, it's an awesome dac! Even the newer Rega DAC is limited in its USB. There's alway optical or coax if hi-rez 24/96 files are that important.
  Personally, I'll take the great sound over the specs.  On the other hand, the BiFrost has both
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 great sound and 24/192. While the BiFrost is pretty neutral, the DLIII is warmer, and has a little more in the bottom end.  I own and like them both.
   
  Quote: 





jsplice said:


> The DL III does *not* support 24/96 over USB.  The max is 16/48 I believe.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





mickeyvee said:


> Technicalities aside, it's an awesome dac! Even the newer Rega DAC is limited in its USB. There's alway optical or coax if hi-rez 24/96 files are that important.
> Personally, I'll take the great sound over the specs.  On the other hand, the BiFrost has both
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Yep, I agree.  I have the DL III and I use the optical out from my MacBook Pro to do high-res stuff.  Supposedly the USB implementation in the DL III is from a time when most of them were fairly flawed.  Honestly, I could never tell much of a difference between the USB and Optical/Coax outputs.  I upgraded from a Dac Magic to the DL III, and to my ears, the DL III blew it away.  That was about 3 years ago, and I still love my DL III, and have absolutely no thoughts of upgrading anytime soon.   If you start comparing a lot of DACs in the ~$1000 price range, you will start to find that they are all VERY similar.  I think out of all electronics, DACs make the least difference from one to the next as far as sound quality.  Once you move up from the bottom of the barrel DACs, they all are extremely similar sounding, unless you go for drastic design differences (solid state versus tube output stage).


----------



## lja1125

Quote: 





jsplice said:


> Yep, I agree.  I have the DL III and I use the optical out from my MacBook Pro to do high-res stuff.  Supposedly the USB implementation in the DL III is from a time when most of them were fairly flawed.  Honestly, I could never tell much of a difference between the USB and Optical/Coax outputs.  I upgraded from a Dac Magic to the DL III, and to my ears, the DL III blew it away.  That was about 3 years ago, and I still love my DL III, and have absolutely no thoughts of upgrading anytime soon.   If you start comparing a lot of DACs in the ~$1000 price range, you will start to find that they are all VERY similar.  I think out of all electronics, DACs make the least difference from one to the next as far as sound quality.  Once you move up from the bottom of the barrel DACs, they all are extremely similar sounding, unless you go for drastic design differences (solid state versus tube output stage).


 
  Bifrost is $450 with usb, and DLIII is $500 new one, and used one is around $400. As you know, DLIII usb isn't as good as Bifrost usb. The problem is my computer doesn't have SPDIF output, so i have to buy sound card if i'd get DLIII. Setting DLIII with sound card should support SPDIF is better sound than Bifrost???  Choosing DAC drives me crazy!!!!


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





lja1125 said:


> Bifrost is $450 with usb, and DLIII is $500 new one, and used one is around $400. As you know, DLIII usb isn't as good as Bifrost usb. The problem is my computer doesn't have SPDIF output, so i have to buy sound card if i'd get DLIII. Setting DLIII with sound card should support SPDIF is better sound than Bifrost???  Choosing DAC drives me crazy!!!!


 
  I guess it all comes down to how much you plan to listen to high-res audio.  I haven't heard the Bifrost, so I can't comment as to how the two DACs compare.  But if you do have a lot of high-res files, it may make more sense for you to go with the Bifrost.  MickeyVee would be the best person here to give you a more detailed comparison on the sound (if it's even possible to hear one, because as I said, in my experience, it can sometimes be very hard to hear differences between dacs).


----------



## lja1125

Does it true that 24/96 with 118db makes better sound than 24/192 with 108db???


----------



## MickeyVee

Essentially, the two DAC's are very close. The BiFrost future proof you if Schiit ever comes out with a new USB card. So, if used DLIII+sound card should be pretty close to a new BiFrost, In that case, get the BiFrost.  I won't even get into the DLIII up sampling. If you're a purist, bits in = bits out, then BiFrost.  The DLIII processes to a minimum 96K. We could go on an on and debate pure bits versus up sampling, neutral versus a little warn but in the end, if there's <$100 difference, I'd do the Bifrost.  Don't get me wrong, I'm keeping my DLIII in my main system and would love it in my desktop system, but in the end, for anything <= CD quality, there's probably not much of a difference.  I have some 24/96 from HDTracks and am really not all that impressed.. i.e. no huge improvement (but that's just me). I already talked about the minor differences in SQ. You could tune with tubes on the Lyr and realize much more of a difference. Whew!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Quote: 





lja1125 said:


> Bifrost is $450 with usb, and DLIII is $500 new one, and used one is around $400. As you know, DLIII usb isn't as good as Bifrost usb. The problem is my computer doesn't have SPDIF output, so i have to buy sound card if i'd get DLIII. Setting DLIII with sound card should support SPDIF is better sound than Bifrost???  Choosing DAC drives me crazy!!!!


----------



## Muzik

Am I crazy?
   
  Recently I've purchased the Lyr, Bifrost and HE-500 combo and it sounds amazing! But I decided to plug the HE-500's into an old Technics SU-G50 (not speaker taps the 1/4 headphone out) which is connected to my pc out of my motherboards 3.5mm line-out. Surprise surprise I can almost hear no discernible difference between the Lyr + Bifrost and the Technics coming from an Intel motherboard.
   
  My question is is there a possibility the Lyr and Bifrost isn't working correctly? which I doubt.
   
  Should I be disappointed with the Schiit combo or really really impressed at how good the Technics amp sounds? Im sort of shocked at the moment.


----------



## Happy Camper

muzik said:


> Am I crazy?
> 
> Recently I've purchased the Lyr, Bifrost and HE-500 combo and it sounds amazing! But I decided to plug the HE-500's into an old Technics SU-G50 (not speaker taps the 1/4 headphone out) which is connected to my pc out of my motherboards 3.5mm line-out. Surprise surprise I can almost hear no discernible difference between the Lyr + Bifrost and the Technics coming from an Intel motherboard.
> 
> ...




There have been many that have found out just how good old gear sounds. You really ought to try the speaker taps of a quality amp. This is not intended to be a negative to the Schiit products but there are options that may be in the basement, garage or storage that allows investment in other areas of the chain.


----------



## lja1125

Anyone has experience LYR + HF-2 or grado cans???


----------



## SeaHawk

Lyr+RS2i here.  Drives great, but is prone to pick up on any tube that's the slightest bit noisy or hissy.  With the Bifrost as my DAC, I find the mid 60s Mullards to warm up the sound despite Grado's signature treble bump.  Currently using Amperex USN-CEP 7308's which while not quite as warm seem to resolve a pinch better and keep the low end extension.
   
  Your mileage may vary depending on what source you're using (as someone keeps saying, the qualities in the tubes you would look for depend on your whole chain).
   
  Not sure about the other tubes available for the Lyr, but the JJ E88CC's that came with mine have a high noise floor (i.e. much background hiss even with volume at zero).  The Russian 6N1P-EB was my first step that knocked the hiss down to tolerable and was cheap enough, but one of the other stock tubes may work as well.  Going third-party NOS tubes can add incremental, but significant improvement to the sound.


----------



## lja1125

another question!!!!!
   
  Have you guys used LYR as a preamp???
   
  I'd like to connect PC - Bifrost - LYR - Swan M200MKIII.
   
  Does it work good?? There is only one outputon Bifrost, so no way hook up bifrost and m200mkIII directly.
   
  will they be good combo???


----------



## RushNerd

Anyone own the HE-400s with the Lyr? I know they don't need it like the h-6 but I know they could really use it. I have the asgard right now and am excited to see what the lyr has to offer with this and the 650s. 
  Quote: 





muzik said:


> Recently I've purchased the Lyr, Bifrost and HE-500 combo and it sounds amazing! But I decided to plug the HE-500's into an old Technics SU-G50 (not speaker taps the 1/4 headphone out) which is connected to my pc out of my motherboards 3.5mm line-out. Surprise surprise I can almost hear no discernible difference between the Lyr + Bifrost and the Technics coming from an Intel motherboard.


 
   
  Unless the headphone jack is connected to the main power source on there, the difference in at least the low-end should be clearly different.
   
   



mickeyvee said:


> They are very different cans.  When I had the HD650, I pretty much split my time with them and the HE400. Now that the HD700 have broken in and lost it's edginess, the HE400 are not getting much love.
> The HD700 are more airy, open and much less dark (they do have a bit of a dark side while maintaining great mids with sparkle.. not sure how to explain it). The HE400 sound dull relative to the Senns.


 

  Wow. I'm in the same boat right now and i've had my HE-400's and 650's for a few weeks now, out of the asgard the 400 is the winner but the 650 can do much more i'm sure. I also feel the 650's are a bit too dark. Obviously both are completely different headphones, but I find it interesting you like the 700's a lot more than the 400's. I thought people kind of dismissed them, or said the 650 was still better. Maybe it's just that the 800's are not that far off and possibly a lot better, but who cares.
   
  Seeing that you like electronic/dance music and rock(similar tastes here), what do your 700's give you over the 400's? I assume you are liking the bass more on the 700's, I think the 400s are doing a great job so far though.  With my setup right now, the 650 feels like it shoves some instruments closer and passes over some details where ass the 400's present of it more evenly, do you find the 700's to be more accurate?
   
  Sorry too many questions, this has just been tough to find out much with the lyr and the 400s.


----------



## 333jeffery

I found that the Lyr doesn't really come alive until you put some premium tubes in it. When I replaced my much-loved Mullards with some Telefunken E288cc's, the difference was comparable to changing the DAC in my system. The clarity increased dramatically, yet the warmth was still there (even moreso than with the Mullards). Don't write off the Lyr until you have tried some of the top-shelf tubes in it.
   
  For the Senn and Hifiman owners, the Lyr has great synergy with those headphones, that gets even better with great tubes in it. Without premium tubes, it can be rather lackluster.


----------



## RushNerd

I don't think MickeyVee is going to find my reply lol.


----------



## MickeyVee

Found your reply!!
  Actually, the HD700 bass is tighter, deeper and faster than the HE400 (though with a little less impact).  The more I listen, the more I'm finding the HE400 bass a little flabby and loose. Now, add more detail and an open and airy sound, the HD700 is fabulous with electronic music.
  Two of my favorite tracks with the HD700 are:  Ghosts 'n' Stuff [Nero ReMix] / Deadmau5 & All I Need Is You [w/ Sean Ryan] / ATB
  I had planned to dedicate tonight to the HE400 and when these tracks came on, I had to go over to the HD700.
   
   
  Quote: 





rushnerd said:


> Wow. I'm in the same boat right now and i've had my HE-400's and 650's for a few weeks now, out of the asgard the 400 is the winner but the 650 can do much more i'm sure. I also feel the 650's are a bit too dark. Obviously both are completely different headphones, but I find it interesting you like the 700's a lot more than the 400's. I thought people kind of dismissed them, or said the 650 was still better. Maybe it's just that the 800's are not that far off and possibly a lot better, but who cares.
> 
> Seeing that you like electronic/dance music and rock(similar tastes here), what do your 700's give you over the 400's? I assume you are liking the bass more on the 700's, I think the 400s are doing a great job so far though.  With my setup right now, the 650 feels like it shoves some instruments closer and passes over some details where ass the 400's present of it more evenly, do you find the 700's to be more accurate?
> 
> Sorry too many questions, this has just been tough to find out much with the lyr and the 400s.


----------



## ianmedium

I got to try this amp this past weekend, I have to say I was deeply unimpressed. It just did not sound musical, in fact it felt flat and uninvolving, it was a demo unit so I would assume it has a good number of hours on it. For me the sound was brittle and hard, very little pace rythm or timing. I compared it to my SR71-B in single ended mode with LCD2's. I also compared to the O2 amp and much prefered the O2 to it. It does look nice though and appears well made.


----------



## jsplice

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> I got to try this amp this past weekend, I have to say I was deeply unimpressed. It just did not sound musical, in fact it felt flat and uninvolving, it was a demo unit so I would assume it has a good number of hours on it. For me the sound was brittle and hard, very little pace rythm or timing. I compared it to my SR71-B in single ended mode with LCD2's. I also compared to the O2 amp and much prefered the O2 to it. It does look nice though and appears well made.


 
  Hmmmmm.....what tubes are in the Lyr?  Your description sounds like the opposite of what I've heard and experienced with all the headphones I've used.  In my experience the Lyr has sounded musical, with lots of rhythm and drive, outstanding bass control and impact, and a pretty dynamic sound.  I've listened to my LCD-2s on both my Lyr and my dad's WA22, and while the WA22 has a slight upper hand on transparency and soundstage, the Lyr still has better drive and bass impact.  I'd suggest swapping tubes or asking for another demo unit, as that one may be defective.


----------



## ianmedium

It had the stock tubes I believe. It had been switched on and music playing through it for around an hour. I was surprised as I have seen all the positive comments here. It sounded nothing like a tube amp. The files were FLAC, from a laptop going through the Schiit DAC.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> It had the stock tubes I believe. It had been switched on and music playing through it for around an hour. I was surprised as I have seen all the positive comments here. It sounded nothing like a tube amp. The files were FLAC, from a laptop going through the Schiit DAC.


 
  Lyr is a very flat amp with stock tubes. It's funny actually. Throw some good tubes in and it transforms into a nice little amp.


----------



## ianmedium

paradoxper said:


> Lyr is a very flat amp with stock tubes. It's funny actually. Throw some good tubes in and it transforms into a nice little amp.




Thats it! Flat is exactly what it felt to me, just goes to show how important tubes are, I wonder why they don't ship them with more musical tubes?


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





ianmedium said:


> Thats it! Flat is exactly what it felt to me, just goes to show how important tubes are, I wonder why they don't ship them with more musical tubes?


 
  I think the simple answer is costs.


----------



## jwusoccer

Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> I think the simple answer is costs.


 
  Paradoxper, during the time you had your lyr, did you ever replace the stock tubes? If so, which ones do you recommend for the hd650s for under 150 dollars. I've been doing a lot of research, but there are so many choices that i'm completely lost, lol.


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





jwusoccer said:


> Paradoxper, during the time you had your lyr, did you ever replace the stock tubes? If so, which ones do you recommend for the hd650s for under 150 dollars. I've been doing a lot of research, but there are so many choices that i'm completely lost, lol.


 
  Hey jwusoccer,
   
  I did. I spent thousands on tubes. And bar none I'd recommend the Lorenz Stuttgart,
  and possibly the Mullards CV2493. Those were $200/pair when I bought them,
  I'm not keeping up with tube inflation atm, so sorry if I recommend something out of budget.
   
  Top recommendations I'd give for that budget and good matches for 
  that headphone. Gold Lions and RCA black plates and clear tops.
   
  The Siemen A-frames were one of the best tubes w/HD650. Not sure how much they run,
  I got mine for $120 from my buddy Mrscary.
   
  There are tons of good sources to learn about tubes, although you really need to experience
  different varieties of 'em to grasp the different sonics.


----------



## kLevkoff

After reading a lot of posts about "tube rolling" - especially with headphone amps - I just had to comment.....
   
  I've been around tubes for a lot of years. When I was in high school (late 1970's), tubes were "on the way out" and tube equipment could be had for pretty much nothing at garage sales and flea markets. Most of the few remaining bits of tube equipment in use were things like test equipment (a LOT of those old Tektronix scopes with thirty or forty, or even more,  12AX7's and 12AU7's in them). The last big box of 12AX&'s I saw ended up in a trash bin because nobody wanted them. My point, however, is this......
   
  In those days (when those NOS tubes people are paying so much for today were actually NEW) we didn't consider them to be very much different. In fact, they were considered pretty much interchangeable. We would cheerfully mix and match Mullards, Telefunkens, and RCAs.... nobody considered one to be especially better than the other. (Some designations, like GA, GB, etc specified lower noise, or specific gain characteristics - but my point is that nobody ever felt that a given brand, or "plate style" or "plate color" SOUNDED any better than any other.) Sure, we considered Gold Lions to be a "premium brand"... but, in those days, that meant we expected them to last a bit longer... and so we were willing to pay $15 apiece instead of $10. All the other manufacturers CLAIMED that their version was better, but nobody much heard any useful difference, and so nobody believed them. In fact, if a certain amp made them sound different, then we considered it to be a poor design - since the design should ideally be entirely independent of the tubes. if we matched "peanut tubes", it was so the whole row of them were the same size and color... at most. 
   
  To anybody who was serious about audio back when tubes really WERE "current", the whole idea that a certain Telefunken 12AX7 with a certain plate shape is somehow "better" than an RCA (or is worth hundreds of dollars more) is just silly. To us, it seems a bit like "beer aficionados" sitting around discussing spending hundreds of dollars for various five year old supermarket six-packs. Sure, a five year old can of Bud will probably taste different than a five year old can of Mick, and it'll probably also taste different than a NEW bottle of Bud... 
  but that doesn't mean you'd pay $200 for that difference.
   
  Sure, tubes sound slightly different, so, by all means, try different ones.... but there's no good reason to specifically expect some rare old German tube to sound better than some cheap new Russian one... "rare" has nothing to do with "good". (OK, some new Russian and Chinese brands in specific really are SUBstandard... but that doesn't "prove" that every old rare one is good.) Those tubes that are going for hundreds of dollars today really WERE nothing more than supermarket brands when they were originally sold.... (and, for anyone who thinks that "old" and rare equate with valuable, I have some old junk .... er.... treasures... from my basement that I'll be glad to sell you for a truly ridiculous amount of money...  )
   
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hey jwusoccer,
> 
> I did. I spent thousands on tubes. And bar none I'd recommend the Lorenz Stuttgart,
> and possibly the Mullards CV2493. Those were $200/pair when I bought them,
> ...


----------



## paradoxper

Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> *Sure, tubes sound slightly different,* so, by all means, try different ones.... *but there's no good reason to specifically expect some rare old German tube to sound better than some cheap new Russian one*... "rare" has nothing to do with "good". (OK, some new Russian and Chinese brands in specific really are SUBstandard... but that doesn't "prove" that every old rare one is good.) Those tubes that are going for hundreds of dollars today really WERE nothing more than supermarket brands when they were originally sold.... (and, for anyone who thinks that "old" and rare equate with valuable, I have some old junk .... er.... treasures... from my basement that I'll be glad to sell you for a truly ridiculous amount of money...  )


 
  No one here touted night and day differences. Tubes sound different and different = better by preference. So you could expect the German tube to sound better than the Russian one.
  Of course, this would be dependent upon your research (hopefully you do your HW). The Lorenz Stuttgart is much better than say the stock GE's. You sure can disagree, but of course, this is just. IMO.


----------



## jwusoccer

Quote: 





klevkoff said:


> After reading a lot of posts about "tube rolling" - especially with headphone amps - I just had to comment.....
> 
> I've been around tubes for a lot of years. When I was in high school (late 1970's), tubes were "on the way out" and tube equipment could be had for pretty much nothing at garage sales and flea markets. Most of the few remaining bits of tube equipment in use were things like test equipment (a LOT of those old Tektronix scopes with thirty or forty, or even more,  12AX7's and 12AU7's in them). The last big box of 12AX&'s I saw ended up in a trash bin because nobody wanted them. My point, however, is this......
> 
> ...


 
  I had no idea they were all so cheap before, lol. Anyways, i'm not looking for a a huge improvement, just a different sound that i might like more. A lot of people on this thread seem to think tubes can change the sound a lot, and I've never heard anything but the stock ones so i might as well give it a try.
   
  Quote: 





paradoxper said:


> Hey jwusoccer,
> 
> I did. I spent thousands on tubes. And bar none I'd recommend the Lorenz Stuttgart,
> and possibly the Mullards CV2493. Those were $200/pair when I bought them,
> ...


 
  Hmm i'll definitely look into those. Thanks a lot!


----------



## satanigatan

Kind of a weird question.

But has anyone ever heard of being shocked by the Schiit lyr? Recently I was using my Schiit Lyr on my desk, and all of a sudden I felt a weird pain in my left leg, and it reminded me of when I've been shocked in the past. I quickly got up and left the room after turning off the Lyr.

I'm thinking it was just a panic attack. But still, I wanted to make sure I'm taking all the safety pre-cautions. My questions are:

I. Is it possible to get shocked by the Lyr? (I don't mean touching the tubes, or the device while on. I just mean in general - can it travel?) 

II. I'm plugging it in to a standard wall socket, using a strip. The cable is on my floor (which is carpet). That is the only thing that touches the floor (the cable). The Lyr is on my wooden desk elevated.

III. If the tubes aren't in all the way properly, could it do this?

Based on everything I said, is it possible? I know this is a really stupid/silly question. Probably just me overreacting. I just wanted to check off 100% that it's not possible.


----------



## Rebel975

Seems like it would only be possible if you were using a 3 prong to 2 prong power outlet adapter.


----------



## satanigatan

rebel975 said:


> Seems like it would only be possible if you were using a 3 prong to 2 prong power outlet adapter.




Just checked, my Lyr was plugged into a three prong power strip which plugged into a three prong extension which plugs into a three prong wall outlet. 

So: Lyr > power strip > extension > wall outlet. All are three prong. Would that be an issue? 

Also the extension has two two prong slots being used. So the extension itself is three prong connected to the power strip and the wall outlet, but it has two 2 prong slots extra on the side that are being used.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





satanigatan said:


> Just checked, my Lyr was plugged into a three prong power strip which plugged into a three prong extension which plugs into a three prong wall outlet.
> So: Lyr > power strip > extension > wall outlet. All are three prong. Would that be an issue?
> Also the extension has two two prong slots being used. So the extension itself is three prong connected to the power strip and the wall outlet, but it has two 2 prong slots extra on the side that are being used.


 
   
   
  I would email support@schiit.com and ask, but I'm pretty sure if you did get shocked, it would be because the Lyr had catastrophically failed, AND you are using a 3 to 2 prong adapter. That third prong is supposed to protect the end user, as far as I'm aware, by providing a solid ground connection.


----------



## Sniping

What are good value tubes to go with the HFM HE-400's?


----------



## Bananaheadlin

I emailed Schiit and confirmed my findings from my research that the Lyr would not be a good fit for my closed DT770/80. Would anybody explain what that means though. The output is too high that it starts to change the signature of the DT770, or..
   
  What is changed from giving these lower impedance headphones a great output?


----------



## jamato8

Quote: 





bananaheadlin said:


> I emailed Schiit and confirmed my findings from my research that the Lyr would not be a good fit for my closed DT770/80. Would anybody explain what that means though. The output is too high that it starts to change the signature of the DT770, or..
> 
> What is changed from giving these lower impedance headphones a great output?


 

 Ask them why. The Lyr should be stable into most any load.
   
  How sensitive is the DT? If very sensitive then you are more apt to pick up noise from the tubes, which can be a downer for some. I use my Ultrasone Ed. 9 and I can hear tube noise, even on my quietest and finest tubes, though very low but I don't mind as the music drowns out any noise with my sensitive phones. If I wanted a totally quiet amp and only used very sensitive phones then I would use a different amp but I use orthos etc.


----------



## SgtFarva

Uber noob question
   
  Can I hook up my studio monitors to the pre-amp on the lyr and control the volume on the lyr?


----------



## Mediahound

Quote: 





sgtfarva said:


> Uber noob question
> 
> Can I hook up my studio monitors to the pre-amp on the lyr and control the volume on the lyr?


 
  Yep, if they're powered. Works well. I listen to the Lyr about 70% of the time like that (Audioengine A5+ speakers).


----------



## jellofund

Hi guys,
   
  Probably not the usual question you get regarding the Lyr but can I ask how hot to the touch the tubes / amp gets? I'm very close to taking the plunge but we have a rather adventurous 2 year old who has an amazing knack of getting into things kept well out of his reach so safety is a concern 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Also can I ask are there any downsides to using tube savers? They seem a good idea in terms of temps and ease of access.
   
  Cheers,
  jello


----------



## Tuco1965

I'm new to the Lyr but here are my impressions so far.  This is in a fairly cool room (lower level man cave) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  The tube side of the amp gets the warmest.  It's hot on the bottom of the tube side.  I'm not willing to touch the tubes, I'm sure they are fairly hot.  The rest of the amp is just warm.  I would not advise having children around it.


----------



## jellofund

Thanks Tuco. I really appreciate the quick reply - that's very helpful!
   
  I plan on using the amp on a computer desk but I'm always amazed at how quickly a toddler can move when you turn your back and strategically manoeuvre a chair to get to 'higher ground'. I tend to do most of my listening after he's in bed so not a huge issue but will perhaps keep a hold of my O2 for the odd bit of daytime listening (it's most likely a better match for my Denon D2000's & GM8.35D's anyway as they're low impedance) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Cheers again.


----------



## Tuco1965

I know how fast they move.  Many many moons ago when my two boys were small they got into everything.  Now that they're young men they just take stuff without asking.


----------



## Mark-sf

If you are concerned about the heat you should look at getting a set of 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes as they run cooler as well as sound great. Whole using socket savers will reduce the case temp they will raise the tubes to the point where they become the greater hazard. Without them the tubes can only be touched on their tops versus grabbed.


----------



## jellofund

Quote: 





mark-sf said:


> If you are concerned about the heat you should look at getting a set of 7DJ8/PCC88 tubes as they run cooler as well as sound great. Whole using socket savers will reduce the case temp they will raise the tubes to the point where they become the greater hazard. Without them the tubes can only be touched on their tops versus grabbed.


 
   
  Thanks for that. I'll look into the tubes you mentioned.
   
  Whilst I intend to keep the amp well out of harm's way it's always best to err on the side of caution. Whilst I'd thought about socket savers potentially putting the tubes at increased risk of taking a knock etc. I hadn't considered the grabbing angle, so appreciate you mentioning it!


----------



## RichieE46

What are your thoughts on the need for warranty for a Lyr?

I might buy used but I will have no warranty. Essentially a new Lyr vs used will be roughly $170-$200 difference.

Is the 5 year warranty worth the price difference? Have there been many repairs needed by current Lyr users? Thanks!


----------



## HK_sends

Quote: 





richiee46 said:


> What are your thoughts on the need for warranty for a Lyr?
> 
> I might buy used but I will have no warranty. Essentially a new Lyr vs used will be roughly $170-$200 difference.
> 
> Is the 5 year warranty worth the price difference? Have there been many repairs needed by current Lyr users? Thanks!


 
  I believe that the warranty is transferable if you can get a copy of the original invoice.  I would email the folks at Schiit to confirm.
   
  Cheers!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  -HK sends


----------



## RichieE46

Quote: 





hk_sends said:


> I believe that the warranty is transferable if you can get a copy of the original invoice.  I would email the folks at Schiit to confirm.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ...


 

 Warranty is only for the original owner. Already emailed Schiit. Kind of lame but seems like standard practice to discourage buying used.
   
  Thanks though


----------



## terokk

you can always tell the original owner to give you the warranty


----------



## weitn

I turned on my beloved Lyr yesterday night. Didn't use it for the last few month as I have been spending time with JH16. It is good amp for it's price range. I removed the original power cable from Lyr and replaced it with Kimber PK10 Gold power cable (which I have been using my speaker amp). I removed the Better Cables RCA Silver Serpent interconnect cable between Lyr and Bifrost and replaced it with Kimber Hero with WBT-0102Cu interconnect. Overkill? Yes. Definitely overkill. I let Lyr warm up for an hour. The power cable and interconnect cable have already break-in with more 200 hours on them. Sound quality? Slight improvement to the sound. Slight extended bass. Slight smoother high. It is worth it to use/upgrade to high end power cable and interconnect? No. The improvement given by high end power cable and interconnect are more pronounce on speaker system.
   

   
  I posted an ad to sell my Lyr yesterday morning and it was sold within minutes the ad went up. I listened to Lyr with HD650 for one last time yesterday night. Boxed it up, throw in a pair of NOVIB Socket Saver (no charge to the buyer) and extra tubes (no charge to the buyer) and going to ship out to the buyer this morning. Farewell Lyr. I am sure your new owner will cherish you.
   
  EDIT: Another reason why I am selling it because I am moving to another country which uses 220V. This unit uses 110V.


----------



## erikfreedom

another case of schiit lyr overkill. power cable is kyj audio, rca cable are bis audio maestro cables and tubes are mullard e88cc pinched waist white label d getter Heerlen Holland gold pins 1956.


----------



## Tuco1965

Geeze that's a heavy power cable.  Practically needs its own support system.


----------



## hedphonz

just got my Lyr an hour ago (stock tubes) 
   
  first impression is it sounds very bright and sibilant in the vocals/high trebles - but with the HD800's they sound more fuller and a bigger soundstage than my other amps - maybe something to do with the extra power (volume is at halfway and its just right)
   
   
  im quite excited to let it burn in and try some tube rolling


----------



## teNsFredZ

Got one of these a week or two back, loving it so far with my K702's, definitely a huge improvement over the E09K but not had that many hours on it yet!


----------



## migasson

Me too, paired my Lyr with K702's... Feeding it with a diet of vinyl. After a couple of days, the amp is settling in veeeerrryy nicely. It does add a hint of honey to brighter recordings, not a bad thing when a goodly portion of my vinyl are modern recordings. Soundstage is brought, and I think a good deal of resolution is added. I prefer this paired together then the Soloist, which I felt added a bit of a glassy harsh tone to the music I own. I'm happy (for now).. Oh, and Sonic Youth sounds AWESOME with this combo


----------



## Pumelman8

Hi there, 
 I am planning to purchase this amp with the schiit modi and then the bifrost when I have saved up enough. I am going to use this combination with the hifiman he-500. Do you think that this will be a good combination?
  
 Also, in the future I would be looking to purchase the sennheiser hd600. Would this setup also sound good with the lyr?
  
 Will the modi suffice as a good DAC for the time being before I purchase the Bifrost usb DAC?
 Is the uber upgrade worth the extra money to buy already installed as you save about $30 compared with an later upgrade?


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## tuna47

What amp?


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## Pumelman8

I would be using the schiit lyr amp with the modi and then upgrade later to the bifrost. Look at my previous comment for the questions.


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## tuna47

I have the lyr with the bifrost urber before that the odac with the lyr 
The bifrost sounds better but odac was good I am sure the modi will be fine until you get the bifrost


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## roguegeek

If I were to hook up my powered Monsoon MM-700 speakers to the Lyr preamp out, would the Lyr amp control the volume of the speakers? If so, should I be using it to control the speakers? And if so with that, do you just unplug your headphones so you aren't running the headphone drivers when you're wanting desktop speaker sound?


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## roguegeek

roguegeek said:


> If I were to hook up my powered Monsoon MM-700 speakers to the Lyr preamp out, would the Lyr amp control the volume of the speakers? If so, should I be using it to control the speakers? And if so with that, do you just unplug your headphones so you aren't running the headphone drivers when you're wanting desktop speaker sound?



Anything?


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## roguegeek

roguegeek said:


> If I were to hook up my powered Monsoon MM-700 speakers to the Lyr preamp out, would the Lyr amp control the volume of the speakers? If so, should I be using it to control the speakers? And if so with that, do you just unplug your headphones so you aren't running the headphone drivers when you're wanting desktop speaker sound?


 
 So...


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## punit

roguegeek said:


> If I were to hook up my powered Monsoon MM-700 speakers to the Lyr preamp out, would the Lyr amp control the volume of the speakers? *-- Yes*
> 
> If so, should I be using it to control the speakers? *---Yes*
> 
> And if so with that, do you just unplug your headphones so you aren't running the headphone drivers when you're wanting desktop speaker sound? *-- Yes*


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## roguegeek

punit said:


>


 
 Boom! Thanks.


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## Sorrows End

Does the amp heat up if no headphones are plugged in and you are just using the volume control for your speakers?

Will the volume control work while the amp is turned off to save tube life?


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## punit

sorrows end said:


> Does the amp heat up if no headphones are plugged in and you are just using the volume control for your speakers?* - Yes , but it runs warm not HOT, which is normal.*
> 
> Will the volume control work while the amp is turned off to save tube life? *- No*


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## roguegeek

sorrows end said:


> Will the volume control work while the amp is turned off to save tube life? *- No*


 
 Which is one of the main reasons I'm looking at a solid-state amp with preamp outs now.


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## 148124

Finally I am in possession of Lyr (for the 2nd time ;] )
  
 newest revision is "C revision" (don't know what are all the changes, for sure some transients protection when on/off)
  
 (I had a Lyr in the past but needed to sell it - personal reasons)
  
 Like in the past - Lyr out of the box sounded totally uninvolving and 2d + a bit muddy, losing a lot of details comparing to pure transistor amplifier (but I was familiar with this)
  
 All it needed was a few sessions for about 5-6 hours to sound amazing, out of this world holography, bass, texture and harmonic informations, layering and separating, depth and width, saturation and punch = top notch
  
 And short summary about the tubes:
  
 I was shocked after trying 6n23p (russian rockets - rocket logo, even from 80s - great sound, bought matched pair of NOS for 10$, can't believe it - in my audio chain they sound very similar to very expensive siemens I tried once in the past)
  
 6n23p tubes were the best (tried stock 6bz7, philips jan 6922, new EH6922, amperex buggle boy, 6n1p from Schiit - EH6922 were my favourite in the past - I tried to make Lyr detailed but kept smooth and relaxing sonic sound signature with great punch when needed)
  
 6n23p is the most balanced, linear, detailed without being harsh (not losing so many musical informations like other tubes), emotionally engaging tube so far, the tubes needed only about 10hours to start singing and amaze me


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## XVampireX

Hi, this amp is on the way, will be powering my HD700 + LCD-3, 2 questions:
  
 How would I be using it with speakers as a preamp? I've got the AudioEngine 5+ but I'm not familiar enough with the idea of preamps, if the speakers already have a volume knob, how would that work?
  
 Since the Lyr has such a huge amount of power, would it be a good idea to try some custom cable, headphone out to speaker wire? 
  
 I'm still taking some of your comments with a grain of salt, you say that LCD-3 with them is "meh" but I'm thinking this sounds wrong, with that amount of power... lol


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## XVampireX

Bumpity Bump, no activity in this thread? Hype is only on new things? 
  
 Yeah, btw, I think I've got the answers on the above questions, but still...
  
 I've got one serious question, why did the chicken cross the road? But in all seriousness, I hear some people either like the Lyr with LCD-3 or just hate it and start comparing it with a solid state for $3000 - well of course it might be a bit worse, ok, even if it's a lot better, it also costs a lot more expensive  I'm still waiting for mine, sometime sunday or monday I'll have it.
  
 Cheers


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## roguegeek

A lot of activity and discussion with this amp occurs in the tube rolling thread.


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## milk

Hey guys. So I'm pretty late to the original Lyr party. Err.. very late. Anyways, I was curious if anyone here has tried the Beyerdynamic T90s with the Lyr? I haven't heard a single bad thing about the T90s and am very intrigued by them. I've gotten a few mixed reactions but I was hoping others had some experience with this combo. Any help is appreciated! Thanks, guys!


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## utee05

I would be interested in anyone using the Lyr with the T1.


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## blacke13

Greetings. I have the lyr 2 connected to Audioengine 5+'s and Max the volume of the speakers and use the amps volume. works very well,


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## blacke13

I use the volume on the Lyr as well, max the volume on the 5+'s and you'll have great results


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## gahung

I am selling my Lyr if anyone's interesting.


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