# Headphone amp recommendation for Sennheiser Momentum



## tim79b

Hi All!
   
  New blood here 
   
  I recently bought a pair of Sennheiser Momentum cans (which are great!) and I'm thinking of picking up a headphone amp to go with them.
   
  I have been considering one of the Ray Samuels amps - either the P51 or the Shadow...
   
  Mainly just running off an iPod....
   
  Any thoughts?
   
   
  Thanks!!


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## tim79b

Hi all - Been having a bit more of a look around the interweb about this question...
   
  I know that the Momentums don't NEED an amp to get the drive they need, they are only 18 ohm after all.
   
  I'm not necessarily looking for power, more quality improvement.
   
  Any thoughts anyone may have on this, not just in terms of the amps I was considering, but any other options which may be worthy....
   
  Looking at spending say about $400
   
  Appreciate any help...
  
  Thanks!!


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## Smazz

I'm in the same boat, I play my music through my Iphone 5 and Macbook Pro, the Momentums sound great, but I'm wondering if I could get them to sound better. Have been looking at the V-moda Verza, its pricey, but my curiosity has my finger on the purchase button. Hoping someone will answer this soon, lol.


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## Smazz

Ordered a V-Moda Vamp Versa, should have it sometime tomorrow along with the V-Moda M100s. I will use the Verza with the Momentums and let you know how they affect the quality of sound, since my music is played through my iphone 5. I will also try the M100s with and without the Verza and post some thoughts. To be continued....


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## SkyBleu

If you're after a fairly good amp for the price to drive your Momentums, I'd suggest trying this budget amp that offers fairly good performance and great battery life (100 hours) for the price, the C&C BH. It comes with three switches to play around with for the sound, so I guess that's okay if you're after something fun to play with.
   
  It only goes for $100 and has many good impressions/reviews on it. I'll link you the thread to the people who own it and you can decide from there.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/644363/c-c-bh-portable-headphone-amp-80-hours-from-a-single-charge-buyer-review


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## akhyar

I'm using JDS C5 to drive the Momentum out of AK100, although the main duty of the C5 is to drive the TG!334.
  Can't say anything bad about the amp, except maybe the short battery life of 10-11 hours per charge.


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## gxtoast

I'm considering the Momentum headphones and would like an amp that will allow me to adjust Bass/Treble so that I can quickly dial-in a bias that suites the sound for a particular genre of music. I think the Momentum is especially good for acoustic, but believe that their excellent balance and range can be tweaked nicely to give better Bass for rock/electronic. Thereby giving me a really flexible headphone.
   
  Using an EQ might give more granularity for adjustment than the use of Bass and Treble knobs, but it won't be anywhere near as practical methinks. One amp that comes to mind is the VorzAMPduo. Any thoughts?


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## nazeem

+1 for the C&C BH. Using it with my Momentums, and it helps make an already great pair of cans sound better.


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## gxtoast

Awesome, Nazeem and SkyBleu! Thanks for posting up about the BH. I am reading through the main thread after checking out the review and I'm going to order one. Do you have a link for a purchase?
   
  I'll order the amp and go get the Momentums. How long did the amp take to arrive?
   
  BTW, I've got a Nokia Lumia 920 phone and it does not drive the Momentums properly. Very faint and flat.
   
  Cheers


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## SkyBleu

Quote: 





gxtoast said:


> Awesome, Nazeem and SkyBleu! Thanks for posting up about the BH. I am reading through the main thread after checking out the review and I'm going to order one. Do you have a link for a purchase?
> 
> I'll order the amp and go get the Momentums. How long did the amp take to arrive?
> 
> ...


 
  No problem! Glad you came to the right conclusion

 Here is the link to the item on eBay from the dealer where most of us got it from:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/C-C-BH-Portable-Headphone-AMP-battery-AMP-CC-BH-NEW-/261172737290?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3ccf1bb50a

 The amp should take around a week to two weeks (Don't quote me, but that's going accordingly to what others in that BH thread had taken to receive their amp).
  I received mine within 7 business days, as it is shipped from China to Australia.
   
  To my understanding, if your main source happens to be the Lumia 920, I'm quite certain that when amped with the BH, it should drive the Momentums nicely.


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## gxtoast

Thanks mate, appreciated.
   
  I'm in Canberra, so one to two weeks is going to be accurate for me, too.
   
  I was also reading about the iBasso DX100. I found it by searching around for a good DAP solution. Totally at the other end of the spectrum though. And unbelievably heavy, too.
   
  How do you like your Colorfly C3? I will be going overseas in a month and probably won't be taking my Lumia, so am looking for an alternative. Looked at the iDevices but they don't get a good rating for SQ. I imagine the Lumia is at a similar level, or worse. The Microsoft music player is ****house. Luckily, the Nokia music player is better. But, still loaded up with a music store and streaming options that get in between the launch screen and my music, grrr.
   
  I'm actually surprised more and more vendors aren't releasing more DAP/DAC/AMP combos like the iBasso. Maybe this will change.


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## SkyBleu

Ah, that's good. Should be fine for you then, my friend.
   
  Yeah, well the DX100 has been known for being a really good DAP, but the only let down, aside from teh size and weight, is it's price tag. 
   
  As of the C3, it is a great little player Being a fairly cheap DAP, for the price, it is sure to be one of few top contenders in the price range ($0-$120).Although the only thing that isn't that great about it, is the UI. But aside from that, the SQ is a killer for the price as I had mentioned. Works incredibly well with the BH as you have seen in the thread which I will provide you. So really, you're doing yourself a favour by forming that combination between the BH and C3.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/644363/c-c-bh-portable-headphone-amp-80-hours-from-a-single-charge-buyer-review#post_9018559
  There you can see a fair amount of owners with the C3/BH combo.
   
  Here's my rig with the V-Moda M-80's.

   
  You can read more about the C3 in the thread itself, http://www.head-fi.org/t/637417/colorfly-c3-appreciation-and-discussion-thread.
   
  Here is the link to the eBay listing, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/COLORFLY-C3-24bit-WAV-APE-FLAC-MP3-HiFi-Music-Player-/380343844383?pt=Other_MP3_Players&hash=item588e427e1f&_uhb=1&clk_rvr_id=495286757130.


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## gxtoast

Thank you, SkyBleu. That's great information.
   
  The C3 and BH2 look to be a really good-quality lower-cost combination. Perfect for driving the Momentum cans, and a great start for a beginner like me.
   
  Cheers


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## SkyBleu

gxtoast said:


> Thank you, SkyBleu. That's great information.
> 
> The C3 and BH2 look to be a really good-quality lower-cost combination. Perfect for driving the Momentum cans, and a great start for a beginner like me.
> 
> Cheers




Indeed it is a low budget yet hood quality combo, my friend does many people well haha

It should drive your Momentums fine. Its highest output is 300mW. Should drive them easily.Lol

Anyways, hope I could contribute to making your decision easier to chose


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## gxtoast

Yes, definitely easier, SkyBleu. Thanks mate.
   
  What format do you generally use? How much of your stuff is 24bit? Is 24bit going to make much difference at this level (Momentum/BH2/C3)?
   
  Cheers


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## SkyBleu

I generally use Flac and 320kbps Mp3 files.

I currently do not have any 24-bit songs, but some of the guys in the thread might be able to help you out with that.

As of the difference, I would not know, so asking someone who has used it before in the C3 thread would be advised. I do know that the C3 will only play 24-bit files if the format is WAV. Other than that, I believe 16-bit is the highest for flac. 

Sorry I couldn't help you out there.


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## gxtoast

No worries at all, mate. I think that 16bit flac and 320kbps mp3 will be just fine for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I just noticed that Colorfly also make other DAPs, like the CK3. Might the CK3 be as good as the C3 but allow us to create playlists? What about the C4? Sorry about the continuous stream of bloody questions!


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## SkyBleu

Quote: 





gxtoast said:


> No worries at all, mate. I think that 16bit flac and 320kbps mp3 will be just fine for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Haha, it's nothing, mate If I can help send you in the right direction, then I'd be glad to help you out
   
  Anyways, back to your questions. 
   
  Yes, Colorfly also makes other DAPs. The CK4, according to a fellow trusted Head-Fi'er I know who has owned this DAP before, he tells me that the CK4 is a good DAP to an extent, but it is advised you take the C3 over CK4 for a few reasons: Cheaper, smaller, better battery life, and only about 20% lesser quality. So the choice between the CK4 and C3 is now up to you to decide.
   
  Now onto the great flagship, C4. Being the flagship, I'm sure it is to outperform the C3 and CK4 anyday. It's probably the C3 times two in terms of performance and quality (Don't quote me on that). I do not own one, nor do I know anyone who has one, so I can't say anything on that, besides tell you to go look up some reviews, if there are any. 
   
  Now back to your playlist question, well...I was quite upset when I realised that I could not make playlists on the C3, but I soon got over that due to the sound quality. So, if you're picky like me, I just have to manually make playlists by making folders on the Micro SD card. So, if I want, let's say, an RnB playlist, I'll just make a folder called that and dump the songs I want in that playlist in there.
  If you're also like me, how you'd like the "Recently Added" folder, well, that is also missing, BUT, every song you add, will be added at the bottom of the list, so pretty much, you'll see what you last added at the bottom of the list, which is fairly easy to access by pressing the up button, once. 
   
  The CK4, according to my mate, said that it does not have playlists, but rather a "favorites" folder/playlist. And seeing that the CK4 has similar UI to the C4, I'd assume that'd be the same on the C4 (Don't quote me on that either).
   
  Hope I could assist you there with your needs


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## gxtoast

Ah, Ok. No worries. I think I can also work around not having a playlist 
   
  Thank you, SkyBleu.


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## SkyBleu

gxtoast said:


> Ah, Ok. No worries. I think I can also work around not having a playlist
> 
> Thank you, SkyBleu.




No problem, mate!

If you don't mind me asking, what's your final decision on the Color fly DAPs?


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## gxtoast

I'll go with the C3. The C4 is $800 and I agree with your points about the CK3 
   
  Thanks, SkyBleu


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## SkyBleu

gxtoast said:


> I'll go with the C3. The C4 is $800 and I agree with your points about the CK3
> 
> Thanks, SkyBleu




Good choice! Haha

Glad you could come to a final conclusion. The C3 and BH won't disappoint you for the price, I can assure you.


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## nazeem

The C3 is a little picky about the file format though. It accepts 16/44 flac files, and 24-bit wav files. There were reports of incompatibilities in the c3 thread related to the tools used to convert the files.
   
  I have a Lumia 920 too, and unfortunately, that doesn't support flac yet - at least not till VLC release their "modern" app.
   
  Looks like we're gonna be audio twins: C3/Lumia 920 > C&C BH > Momentums


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## gxtoast

Hi Nazeem and SkyBleu,
   
  I just purchased a *C&C BH2* and a *ZY Cable* from *http://www.shenzhenaudio.com* I preferred to use Shenzhenaudio over eBay, as they are the official distributor for C&C gear and I can purchase multiple items at once haha.
   
  SkyBleu, I did some more reading about the Lumia and for now I'm going to try it before ordering the C3.
   
  One thing I am not so sure about is the cable I purchased. The name says:
  "heavyweight Baolong 3.5 stereo cable for recording"
   
  Is this going to be okay for playback?
   
  Now, I just need to go pickup a pair of brown Momentum cans


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## J.Pocalypse

Kinda surprised no suggestion of the Digizoid ZO2.. I have to say though, from my 4th gen iPod "classic", I have no desire to buy an external amp for my Momentum's. Just my own experience.


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## gxtoast

Hi JP,
   
  Taking a quick look at the Digizoid just now, it seems that it might fill a bit of a niche as a Bass enhancer and be recognised for this more so than for its use as an all-round amp. Indeed, the BH and BH2 have a very good reputation as an all-round amplifier that also can boost Bass quite well when required. But, by default will produce excellent sound without coloring it too much, which is what I want from the Momentum headphones.
   
  When I tested the Momentum phones with my L920 I found that the sound was anemic and low and not really acceptable. I should be able to confirm my experience with the combo in the coming weeks, albeit from the perspective of a discerning main-streamer haha.


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## SkyBleu

Quote: 





gxtoast said:


> Hi Nazeem and SkyBleu,
> 
> I just purchased a *C&C BH2* and a *ZY Cable* from *http://www.shenzhenaudio.com* I preferred to use Shenzhenaudio over eBay, as they are the official distributor for C&C gear and I can purchase multiple items at once haha.
> 
> ...


 
  That's alright, mate! Wherever you want to buy it from, is okay with us
   
  Yes, go right ahead and give the Lumia a shot, hopefully the BH will drive it well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   


Spoiler: The%20cable..it%20means%20it's%20a%20heavyweight%20champion.






   
  Of course it's going to be okay for playback If it's a 3.5mm to 3.5mm, it should work as an interconnect as well as an AUX cable (I'm pretty sure). The name is just to give it some uniqueness, I assume. 
   
  Rightio, go pick of those cans! They were your priority when you came to this thread, haha.


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## gxtoast

Haha, yeah, just need to get those cans.
   
  Although, after that I need some HD versions of the music I like. Is there a good application available on windows that can allow me to evaluate the quality of my current music files? Is there a good site I can buy music from? I tried HDtracks and found their range a bit limited for groups. Great for solo artists - although, there was no Peter Gabriel and only one album by David Bowie. Couldn't search by group, so that excluded a whole lot of music.
   
  Cheers


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## SkyBleu

Quote: 





gxtoast said:


> Haha, yeah, just need to get those cans.
> 
> Although, after that I need some HD versions of the music I like. Is there a good application available on windows that can allow me to evaluate the quality of my current music files? Is there a good site I can buy music from? I tried HDtracks and found their range a bit limited for groups. Great for solo artists - although, there was no Peter Gabriel and only one album by David Bowie. Couldn't search by group, so that excluded a whole lot of music.
> 
> Cheers


 
  Hmm...I've never personally owned a Windows phone, so I can't exactly help you with that.


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## nazeem

Quote: 





gxtoast said:


> Haha, yeah, just need to get those cans.
> 
> Although, after that I need some HD versions of the music I like. Is there a good application available on windows that can allow me to evaluate the quality of my current music files? Is there a good site I can buy music from? I tried HDtracks and found their range a bit limited for groups. Great for solo artists - although, there was no Peter Gabriel and only one album by David Bowie. Couldn't search by group, so that excluded a whole lot of music.
> 
> Cheers


 
  You can try one of the streaming apps on WP8 (Spotify, Pandora, etc) that stream 320kbps. The OS doesn't natively support flac yet, but vlc should sort that out soon.
   
  From a desktop client perspective, I use media monkey for my audio file management - you can see what tracks are HD by filtering by bitrate. For playback, foobar2000 FTW.


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## gxtoast

Thanks, Nazeem. I've been looking off and on for a good playback application and never came across foobar, weird. Anyway, I installed it and like its simple sophistication.
   
  I'm surprised foobar hasn't been ported over to wp8, as it seems to be a native Windows app.


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## Cla55clown

How does the Momentum benefit from an amp? Shouldn't it be very easy to drive from portables? Just looking to hear other's impressions with it being amped. Tried them on at a local Best Buy and they fit me [read: ears] nicely. It's either these or HD600...


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## gxtoast

I tried the Momentum on my Lumia 920 and found that it definitely needs an amp.


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## Superpiper Mk I

bm


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## gxtoast

I purchased a C&C BH2 amp from Shenzhen Audio, which arrived a week ago, a couple of weeks after placing the order.
   
  Today I tested the AKG K-401s, the Sennheiser Momentums, PSB M4U 2s, and the AKG K-495 NCs. It worked really well and I'm very happy with the unit: the very small size, good control interface quality, and long battery life.
   
  My only problem now is that all of my source music is MP3s and I cannot play flac on my WP8 Nokia Lumia 920 yet. Not until VLC for WP8 is released. I am tempted to buy the Colorfly source player, but I think that when VLC is released it will provide a good enough sound quality using flac.
   
  In a competition between the Sennheiser Momentums, PSB M4U 2s, and the AKG K-495 NCs, the Momentums was an easy choice due to much better sound quality. The Momentums won't have the same isolation as the others, but even on an aircraft they will be good enough I think.
   
  So, I'm pretty happy. Now VLC just needs to come out.


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## J.Pocalypse

Just encode your FLAC files to 320 MP3. Doubt you'd notice a difference.


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## potterpastor

The Fiio E11 makes my Sennheiser Momentums sing! More volume, vibrancy, and slightly more forward mids. The Fiio E11 is a great match for warm headphones like the Momentum because it tends to make the music sound a bit brighter to my ears.


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## potterpastor

The Momentum with the Fiio and a laptop or ipad mini sounds terrific. Sounds good on my galaxy 4s too, though not quite as good


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## pdrm360

potterpastor said:


> The Momentum with the Fiio and a laptop or ipad mini sounds terrific. Sounds good on my galaxy 4s too, though not quite as good


 
  
 The iPhone's amp is good enough to drive the Sennheiser Momentum. But for laptop I use the DragonFly DAC/Amp.


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## DrSheep

I second the AQDF for the Momentum, but at 18 ohms it is so easy to drive that any half decent amp will make it sound good.


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## silverfoxx

I just thought I would chime in to recommend the RSA P-51 Mustang Portable Head Amp. I bought one second hand and loved it with Ultrasone Edition 8's. Those cans sound pretty darn lovely off the bat, but through the P-51 it is mostly the mid-range that is noticeably liquified and resonant, with female voices especially. I am not so experienced with portable head amps, but can say that this one made a great thing sound greater, smoother for long term, tingle and goose bump inducing on dramatic music passages. In acoustic country and bluegrass music (which I love) it brought forward in volume and excitement instruments that were quite recessed before, like violin, guitar, flute, accordian. I do not recall much happening downstairs with the bass notes, however, and by memory this is consistent with other opinions of the portable Mustang. Better grab a full sizer if bass tune up is required. The Ed 8's provide good instrument separation and the amp really shined them all up and extended there notes. I moved it on, and the new owner loves it aswell- he uses it with P5's for travel and a tube Ray Samuels amp (forgot the name right now) with LCD 2's at home. I am actually thinking of grabbing some Momentums for travelling soon, as I am too worried about scratching up the Ed 8's- and so appreciate this thread. It has put me onto the C&C BH, thanks. The P-51 was for me a very satisfying amp, and one I shall make future comparisons with.


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## nick v

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm wondering if anyone is using a higher end DAC/Amp combo for the Momentum?
  
 I'll mostly be using them at work, so I was thinking of putting together a pretty nice office system. Right now I'm looking at the Burson HA-160D, Muscal Fidelity M1 HPA, and the Benchmark DAC-1.
  
 Is anyone using any of these amps with the momentums? I know they're easy to drive, would it be worthwhile to power them with a higher end piece like these, or would I just be throwing my money away?
  
 I was basically looking in the $500-750 range. Should I be looking at $200 solutions instead?
  
 Thanks for any insight.


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## VXAce

From my like 30 minutes on the Momentums yesterday, they sounded fine to my ears from a normal iTouch 4th gen playing FLAC. From that short time period of listening to the, I didn't really feel that it needed to be amped, but like most headphones could benefit from it. I wasn't really paying attention when I was listening... just enjoying the view of the wall of black that was my dead laptop waiting for it to charge.


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## DrSheep

My Momentum is find with my AK120 + VC SDT, but again I am changing my setup to AK120->HiFi M8 LX-> AD XLR.


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## potterpastor

Upgraded to a Fiio E12 and it elevates the Momentum even more than the E11 did


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## nick v

Well I ordered a Geek Out and a Geek Pulse X + Femto clock upgrade from LH Labs! It'll be a couple months for the Geek Out and maybe 6 months for the Pulse, but when they show up I'll be able to see what the Momentums can really do!!
  
 So far I've listened through my Galaxy S3, Nexus 7, Asus Xonar ST sound card and an Audioquest Dragonfly.
  
 They definitely sound the best through the Dragonfly and Xonar ST. Just a little bit sweeter and more detailed with a touch more bass control and weight.


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## teohouse88

I've tried the Fiio E17 with my Momentum and it sounds really well...but I was disappointed about the bad compatibility of this DAC/AMP with my iPhone 5 so I will purchase the Jds Labs C5D (the evolution of C5 with the DAC included).
 Do you suggest me any other Dac/Amp under 300$ for the Momentum?


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## sanfordm

Does any DAC work with Lightning connector iPhones or iPads without putting a USB hub in the middle?  FiiO tested the E7 with an iPad using the USB port on the old 30-pin dock connector camera connection kit.  They got the same "can't be used because it draws too much power" error as everyone else was getting.  They turned off USB charging on the E7 and tried again.  It worked, at least they think it worked.  I tried it with an E17 and a Lightning connector camera connection kit on a iPad mini w/ Retina display -- it's split out now for Lighting connectors, a USB adapter and an SD card adapter, not both in the same package or on the same adapter; obviously I tried it with the USB adapter.  Doesn't work.
  
 I don't think the E17 is drawing too much power.  I don't think it's drawing any power with USB charging turned off.  I don't know why it would when the E7 doesn't.  I just think it's either a quirk of the Lightning connector design that any device that's signaling over USB that it CAN in some modes draw power over Apple's limit trips the error message.  Or it's the E7 doesn't report in its USB profile the power it CAN draw, whether it's drawing it or not, but the E17 does report that in its profile.  Which makes the E17 more properly USB standards compliant but makes it not work with Lightning connector device even with USB charging shut off.
  
 This basically comes down to Apple and the user experience thing.   Android devices they drop a generic warning in the box that if you attach a USB device that draws a bunch of power then the device's battery life claims are void.  So, you know, go ahead, but your Android device that's supposed to last 20 hours on a single charge may not last 20 minutes.  Apple on the other hand just disallows anything that might, possibly, under any circumstance, substantially reduce advertised battery life.  Remember when they stuck an LED flash on the iPhone 4 and hoards of people with iOS dev kits made freebie LED flashlight apps and submitted to the App Store and Apple turned them all down?  Finally, due to demand, Apple allowed the LED flashlight apps provided they explicitly stated using them will substantially reduce battery life.  Now there's so much demand for an LED flashlight on iPhones Apple rolled their own flashlight into the iOS 7 control panel.
  
 The problem is there's a huge demand for an LED flashlight on smartphones.  There's very little demand, almost none relative to iPhone units sold, for an alternate DACs for iOS devices.  So there's not enough yelling and screaming from iOS user for Apple to let up on the requirements and allow DACs with the warning you might nail your battery life down to nothing by using them.
  
 The issue also becomes confused because people are using Lightning-to-30-pin dock connector adapters with FiiO's 30-pin line out and they think because they're getting line out off the dock connector, and the iOS device's volume control is disabled, they're bypassing the device DAC and using the FiiO DAC.  Even FiiO when the turn off USB charging trick with the E7 used that as proof.  "See, the volume control on the iPad is disabled so it's using the E7 DAC."  Well, that's a sketchy metric.  I have an old iPod w/ video model with a dock with line-out, and there's a setting on the iPod that lets you control the dock line-out volume with the iPod volume.  Which makes it not really line-out anymore, but that's a whole other story.
  
 The point is, for people who have their FiiO amp+DAC models connected to their iOS device some way or another via audio line-out, unless the FiiO shows up in the output selection menu -- it's the little pop-up menu that lets you send output to an Apple TV or Airport Express, or switch between a Bluetooth audio device and the headphone jack, etc. -- and you select it in that menu, YOU ARE NOT BYPASSING THE iOS DEVICE DAC.  If the iOS device volume control doesn't work, you're bypassing the iOS amp, yes.  You're using the FiiO's amp, yes.  You are not using the FiiO's DAC.  You might be, depending on how the FiiO is designed, post-processing the iOS device DAC audio with FiiO DAC, sort of like an AVR will take an analog stereo signal off RCA jacks and run it through a Dolby PLII 5.1 surround sound simulator, but the digital audio content on the iOS device is still getting converted to analog by the iOS device DAC.  Not the FiiO's DAC.  Period.  End of story.
  
 Edited:  I should clarify, yeah, using the Apple Lightning-to-30-pin adapter, you are technically bypassing the iOS device's DAC. But you're not bypassing the Wolfson WM8533 DAC that's in the 30-pin adapter.  You're not using the FiiO, or whatever portable audio brand is your pleasure, DAC.  You're using the DAC that's in Apple's $30 adapter plug.  Which is probably not exactly the quality DAC you're really wanting after if you just spent $100 - $300 on a decent portable headphone amp+DAC.  It's probably not awful, it's just not good.


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## nick v

I'd also recommend at least looking into the LH Labs Geek Out (http://mustgeekout.com/)
  
 The problem is it's not shipping yet, and very few people have actually had the opportunity to hear it.
  
 If you take a look at it on paper, there is certainly nothing that compares at the price. It's still available for pre-order (retail price will be more expensive).
  
 The DAC chip used (ESS9018K2M Sabre DAC) the format versatility (native 32bit/384KHz & DSD to 6.144mHz via Asynch USB 2.0) and the technical specs are really unheard of at anywhere near this price. It's definitely worth looking into if you're in the market for a similar product.


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## sanfordm

nick v said:


> I'd also recommend at least looking into the LH Labs Geek Out (http://mustgeekout.com/)
> 
> The problem is it's not shipping yet, and very few people have actually had the opportunity to hear it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That won't work.  The OP said iPod mostly.  The Geek Out is bus-powered, no battery.  No way an iPod can source enough power to use that thing.  Probably not even even a full-sized, as opposed to mini, iPad, but no way an iPod, not to bet a pre-order on, certainly.  If it's a non-iOS iPod it just won't work.  If it's an iOS iPod, it'll tell you it won't work and then it won't work.
  
 If I were the OP I probably wouldn't sweat the DAC too much, just look for a decent battery-powered analog amp patched up to the line out if that's convenient -- and it's not very -- or the headphone jack.  I have Momentums and, sure, they're pretty but they do also sound Sennheiser good.  I mean hardly top-end Sennheiser, but still.  He can even get away without the amp if he wants.  The B&W P7s along, no external, though terrifically overpriced for what they are, they'll light up 96kbps downloaded Spotify tracks played on an iPhone like you wouldn't believe.  In fact, the P7s are a little too bright and might do with the low frequency boost feature of most decent reasonably price portable analog headphone amps.  Momentum on-ear and over-ear are subtler and in my opinion sound better across the whole frequency spectrum and really all lo-bump on a headphone amp does is muddy them up.  Not like Beats muddy, but muddy enough.
  
 Somebody else was wanting two headphone outs on a portable amp.  Um, splitter?  Cause on any headphone amp under a grand retail price that's all they're doing, just inside the housing instead of with a cable.  You're not getting two discrete amps in a 200 portable.  This is not happening.


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## vkalia

The Momentums are easy enough to drive - i've done a quick listening comparison between the output from the 5S direct, vs through the AK10.    Hardly anything worth mentioning.


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## dunmaster

sanfordm said:


> Does any DAC work with Lightning connector iPhones or iPads without putting a USB hub in the middle?  FiiO tested the E7 with an iPad using the USB port on the old 30-pin dock connector camera connection kit.  They got the same "can't be used because it draws too much power" error as everyone else was getting.  They turned off USB charging on the E7 and tried again.  It worked, at least they think it worked.  I tried it with an E17 and a Lightning connector camera connection kit on a iPad mini w/ Retina display -- it's split out now for Lighting connectors, a USB adapter and an SD card adapter, not both in the same package or on the same adapter; obviously I tried it with the USB adapter.  Doesn't work.
> 
> I don't think the E17 is drawing too much power.  I don't think it's drawing any power with USB charging turned off.  I don't know why it would when the E7 doesn't.  I just think it's either a quirk of the Lightning connector design that any device that's signaling over USB that it CAN in some modes draw power over Apple's limit trips the error message.  Or it's the E7 doesn't report in its USB profile the power it CAN draw, whether it's drawing it or not, but the E17 does report that in its profile.  Which makes the E17 more properly USB standards compliant but makes it not work with Lightning connector device even with USB charging shut off.
> 
> ...


 
 What about this DAC? Should the Onkyo app work properly, bypassing the iDevice dac?


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## sanfordm

dunmaster said:


> What about this DAC? Should the Onkyo app work properly, bypassing the iDevice dac?


 
 Which DAC?  I have an Onkyo AVR using a wi-fi adapter (a Netgear computer adapter w/ the same wi-fi chipset; the official Onkyo adapter gets terrible signal in my house due to location).  So I do use the Onkyo app but not much and only as a remote control.  Do Onkyo AVRs stream audio from the AVR inputs, or the "Net" features like Spotify, via wi-fi or bluetooth to the iOS and/or Android apps for listening?  Wi-Fi and Bluetooth are both digital wireless standards.  So what's coming from the Onkyo even if it's sourced digital, been processed to analog via the Onkyo AVR's DAC, it's going to a device app it's going digital.  It's going as data.  Which means something has to convert that digital data to analog audio information.  On iOS devices, if it goes out the headphone jack, or out the Lightning connector via an Apple or 3rd-party adapter Lightning to line-out, it's going through a a DAC.  Either the iOS devices DAC or the adapter's DAC.  You can do a DAC in software.  It's not very efficient on this scale, but you can do it.  So the Onkyo app could have a software DAC that processes data from Onkyo AVRs, but really there's no way to bypass the digital path through a DAC related to the device.  Android devices, I don't know, but I doubt it, not unless they're substantially hacked.  And there's no reason to do it with popular Android devices because they support USB DAC+amp devices via their connector ports, even if an adapter is required to take a USB cable.  Android device makers don't so often care if you drain the battery a lot faster than the device is rated.  They warn you via a message on the device or in the manual and then let you connect about whatever will work via USB.  Apple won't let you do that.  You can't connect a USB device that reports in its profile, or is detected to, draw much power.  The Apple USB adapter draws a little power, the SD card reader draws a little power, that's okay.  A DAC+amp has at least the potential to draw a lot of power and if it accurately reports in its profile what it can draw, the iOS device isn't going to allow it to handshake up with the iOS device.  You can plug it in but you can't use it and the iOS device will neither recognize it in the UI or provide it power.
  
  
 The whole business of bypassing DACs on mobile devices is kind of a mess.  A lot of people think they're using their alternative DAC+amp's DAC when they are not.  They may have analog line-out but it's still going through either the device DAC or the adapter DAC.  The only way I've seen to truly bypass the device DAC and the adapter DAC, if there is a DAC in that particular adapter, is a trick of putting a hub between the alternative DAC and the iOS device.  Usually a powered hub but some unpowered hubs will work.  It's whatever the hubs report as max power draw, is actually drawing, that's the thing the iOS device uses to decide.  If the hub plays nice, you can connect a DAC+amp, and select it as the audio output device in iOS in the menu you where you'd normally select the usual audio output options (headphones -- DAC is iOS DAC, Airport Express for Airplay -- DAC is Airport Express DAC, Apple TV for Airplay -- DAC is Apple TV DAC).  If the external USB DAC shows up there, you can bypass the onboard DACs.  But this only works with 30-pin dock-connector iPads.  iPhones always choke on the power draw.  Lightning iPads using the Apple USB adapter choke on the power, using the Lightning-to-30-pin adapter with the old 30-pin dock connector line-out adapter, the Lightning-to-30-pin adapter has its own DAC and there is no way around that DAC.  Besides which, you're connecting analog line-out, not USB digital, so there's no digital for the DAC in the external device to convert to analog.
  
 There's a Wildlife Control song that makes a bit of fun of this whole analog vs. digital argument.  The song says it really doesn't matter.  The song is pretty much right.  Ever since there was so-called audiophile equipment there have been components and cable wars, way before any content signal had to be converted from digital data to analog audio.  Back when compact disc first came out it was part of the standard that a properly licensed product for the format be labeled with a code that indicated how it was produced.  The Holy Grail was DDD.  Digitally recorded, digitally produced, digitally mastered.  It didn't exist.  Studios didn't have digital equipment so everything was AAD.  After a while some things were ADD.  These day pretty much everything is DDD but nobody buys CDs anymore and they dropped the code requirement for CDs anyway.  Probably because pretty much everything was DDD, or ADD, and possibly because the analog-is-better crowd had garnered enough public attention the Compact Disc consortium didn't want you to know you were buying a DDD recording.
  
 It's well known Jack White was an analog-only nut for a long time.  Apparently one day he woke up and realized he was putting himself and a bunch of production people to ridiculous pains as 99.99% of his product was going to be somewhere down the line processed digitally.  So he quit bothering.  Is pure analog better?  I don't know.  It often sounds different to some people, and it's a fact there's no such thing as an uncompressed digital recording.  All digital formats are to some degree lossy.  Lossless is a marketing word.  You lose audio wave information when you convert it to to binary data.  It's compressed by its nature and it's unavoidable.  Lossless just means much less compressed.  But is analog actually better?  Well, for starters, good luck finding a way to listen to analog audio.  Playing a vinyl LP through a modern amp is not an analog experience.  I have a FiiO E12 Mont Blanc portable amp I like quite a bit.  They call it analog.  It's not analog.  It's all analog-in and all analog-out but it's an amp-on-a-chip so whatever comes in through the analog input is getting digitally processed somewhere.  Same for the overwhelming majority of modern AVRs and ARs.  They're amp-on-chip designs.  Everything is digitally processed at some point.
  
 Vinyl and other older analog sourced technologies sound different, certainly.  And I could show you a purely source analog signal on a signal analyzer compared with a digital-to-analog signal and I could point out how much is missing from the source digital signal.  But it's not anything human ears can hear.
  
 People come at this from the wrong side.  They'll drop $500 on a tabletop headphone DAC+amp down and plug their laptops into them and listen to the output audio with $300 Beats or some similar sort of headphone.  If they put a lot less money into just a decent pair of headphones, those headphones will make their sorry laptop amp and DAC shine.  You can spend $3,500 on one of these fairly new Sennheiser tabletop DACs and Sennheiser headphones and it'll sound great off your computer but a week later you won't know the difference.  $400 Sennheiser headphones alone would have been more than enough to give you the audience  experience you want.  I have a pair of Sennhesier HD201s.  Thirty bucks.  They're weak all over and I'm not a fan of mega-bass, but there's like no bass out of the HD201s.  Pair them with a $150 desktop or portable amp-on-chip unit with a bass boost feature, they sound like premium headphones.
  
 Anyway, start with the headphones.  Then for a computer throw in a reasonably priced external DAC+amp.  For portable devices, don't sweat the DAC and everything you'll to go through to use an external DAC.  Portables devices, listening conditions are rarely ideal, anyway.  A 5mph breeze will throw the whole deal.  Good, durable headphones and if you want a little boost then an economical portable amp, that's plenty.
  
 Sorry this is so long but a lot of people come to these forums less for technical help or general buying advice and more to find out how to spend a bunch of money to "get it right."  There is no "right."  The only "right" is what sounds right to you.  And that will vary based upon what you're listening to.  Jinkies, it will vary based on your mood.  Putting together so-called audiophile systems is a hobby, like building Lego sets.  If you know it's a hobby, it's how you choose to spend your time and money, and you realize you'll always be messing with this stuff, with connections, with new components, then you'll be fine.  Trying to "get it right," you'll drive yourself crazy.
  
 This "I can hear the air between the string" stuff is nonsense.  I've been in production studios, symphony recordings you can hear one musician barely, just ever so slightly, bump her music stand with her knee and it rocks on its based for a few seconds.  Wonderful.  If you're an FBI audio analyst.  But why would I want to hear that on a recording I'm playing to enjoy?
  
 Like the song says, it really doesn't matter if it's analog or digital.


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## dunmaster

First of all, thanks for the time you took for this reply.
  
 Quote:


sanfordm said:


> Which DAC? [...]


 
  
 I'm sorry, i forgot to copy the link: http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/nano_iDSD.html
 According to their site, the chain iPhone w/ Onkyo App -> Lightning-to-USB -> iDSD should be able to transport all types of lossless music to the DAC. Power drain shouldn't be a problem since the iDSD runs on its own battery.
 What they state on the site is correct? Can this setup stream dsd files directly to the dac?
 It was mainly curiosity, I still don't know if I'm going to buy one of these products.
  


> [...] All digital formats are to some degree lossy.  Lossless is a marketing word.  You lose audio wave information when you convert it to to binary data.  It's compressed by its nature and it's unavoidable.  Lossless just means much less compressed. [...]


 
  
 Ok, lossless is actually sampled at higher sampling rate, but if we agree on the fact that a song cannot contain frequency higher than 22 KHz, according to the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem, a 44 KHz sampling rate should be enough. That's in theory. Now, I don't know how much higher frequency "modify" the overall sound produced by lower frequency, but even if it was so, I'm wondering if up to which point we are actually able to perceive the difference and when we start convincing ourselves to.
 Probably on some occasion, it makes sense to use the word lossless (always referred to our frequency-limited ears).
  


> [...] People come at this from the wrong side.  They'll drop $500 on a tabletop headphone DAC+amp down and plug their laptops into them and listen to the output audio with $300 Beats or some similar sort of headphone.  If they put a lot less money into just a decent pair of headphones, those headphones will make their sorry laptop amp and DAC shine.  You can spend $3,500 on one of these fairly new Sennheiser tabletop DACs and Sennheiser headphones and it'll sound great off your computer but a week later you won't know the difference.  $400 Sennheiser headphones alone would have been more than enough to give you the audience  experience you want.  I have a pair of Sennhesier HD201s.  Thirty bucks.  They're weak all over and I'm not a fan of mega-bass, but there's like no bass out of the HD201s.  Pair them with a $150 desktop or portable amp-on-chip unit with a bass boost feature, they sound like premium headphones. [...]


 
  
 I'm sorry, I missed the point. Are you saying that the greater difference is made by the headphone, not by the dac, right? In theory I agree, I don't think anyone can hear big differences between a 200$ dac and a 800$ dac, listened from the same 300$ headphones. Maybe it's better to invest the 600$ in a better headphone, it should be a more noticeable upgrade.
 But I have no direct experience, so I'm just guessing.
  


> [...] Anyway, start with the headphones.  Then for a computer throw in a reasonably priced external DAC+amp.  For portable devices, don't sweat the DAC and everything you'll to go through to use an external DAC.  Portables devices, listening conditions are rarely ideal, anyway.  A 5mph breeze will throw the whole deal.  Good, durable headphones and if you want a little boost then an economical portable amp, that's plenty. [...]


 
  
 Totally agree here. This is why if I buy a dac for the momentum, probably I'll buy a simple and plain USB dac like the AudioQuest Dragonfly, hrt micro streamer or something similar, if i'm studying in a library I will be focused on the books rather than on the definition of the music, that it's just for keeping company. To iDSD's defense, I must say that the spec are comparable or superior to the other rivals, but you have the added features of a digital and analog output, a battery and the possibility to use the iphone as a source, all at a similar price. Not bad.
  


> [...] This "I can hear the air between the string" stuff is nonsense.  I've been in production studios, symphony recordings you can hear one musician barely, just ever so slightly, bump her music stand with her knee and it rocks on its based for a few seconds.  Wonderful.  If you're an FBI audio analyst.  But why would I want to hear that on a recording I'm playing to enjoy? [...]


 
  
 This remembers me the countless discussion on photography forums where everyone debate on which lens delivers the greatest sharpness, color saturation ecc. But the reality isn't that "sharp", and above all, the sharpest photo isn't always the most beautiful and expressive photo.
 The beauty of a photo, or of a song, it's in the element itself, not in the camera or in the headphone. They are only mediums that can be more or less accurate. But they are not everything.
  


> [...] Sorry this is so long but a lot of people come to these forums less for technical help or general buying advice and more to find out how to spend a bunch of money to "get it right."  There is no "right."  The only "right" is what sounds right to you.  And that will vary based upon what you're listening to.  Jinkies, it will vary based on your mood.  Putting together so-called audiophile systems is a hobby, like building Lego sets.  If you know it's a hobby, it's how you choose to spend your time and money, and you realize you'll always be messing with this stuff, with connections, with new components, then you'll be fine.  Trying to "get it right," you'll drive yourself crazy. [....]


 
  
 In the end, like you say, the best way to choose how to invest our money in this hobby is to try: if I can't tell any difference between a 100$ dac and a 500$ dac, I simply won't spend the extra 400$ because they are not worth it. Another person, with more raffinate ears, may come to different conclusion, but in the end, it's my ear the ultimate judge.
 Unfortunately, we can't try everything out there, so the reviews and opinions of users are extremely helpful, but they give you the idea, they're not gospel.
  
 I've been long, too, but you made very interesting points.
 Please forgive my errors, but english is not my mother tongue, I'm Italian


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## sanfordm

Related to how you're thinking about patching up via the Onkyo, in theory a battery-powered DAC shouldn't be a power-drain issue.  But in practice iOS devices are picky.  If the DAC can charge over USB it might report to the master device in its profile that it may, potentially draw however much power while charging and that's too much for an iOS device to allow, so it doesn't allow the device's use even though at the time it's connected on battery power, not charging, it draws no or very little power.  DAC manufacturers CAN make their DACs iOS device compatible, but to be sure, to get access to acceptable power requirements and what the device should be report to the iOS device when it's connect via the Lightning connector, via a Lightning-to-USB adapter or directly via a Lightning connector, they'e got to be part of the "made for iOS" or "works with iOS" program.  There are fees involved with that.  It costs money.  Knowing Apple, and the fact they can demand a premium due to the popularity of iPod touches, iPhones and iPads, that fee is probably pretty high, whether it's a blanket fee or per device sold or manufactured.  So my FiiO E17 won't work -- you get the "uses too much power and can't be used" error message -- with my retina iPad mini even though you can turn off USB charging in the menus, eliminating excess power drain, because FiiO isn't part of Apple's licensed third-party device program so FiiO doesn't know the specifics of how to design the E17 so it consistently works with iOS devices with no tricks or hubs in between or anything like that.  My wife has an old dock connector alarm clock and iPhone stereo speaker system, she used before she got a Lightning connector iPhone, and it is licensed "made for iOS" and still sometimes she'd still get a "this device isn't compatible with this iPhone" message.  Undocking and re-docking usually fixed it but if it was designed perfectly to Apple's spec and Apple's spec was up-to-date and absolutely accurate, she should have never seen that message.
  
 A lot of 3rd party speciality device manufacturers, external DACs being pretty much a speciality item, tend to design their devices to work with Android, because either the Android devices don't bother warning about power drain, or warn and let you use the device anyway.  Or there's a compatibility licensing program that's probably cheaper.  And though iPhones and iPads are nearly always the bestselling SINGLE BRAND of smartphone and tablet, there are still a lot more Android device out there ACROSS MANY BRANDS.  It makes more sense to make your external DACs work with the type of devices that has a larger installed base because you stand a better chance of selling more of those DACs.
  
 Agreed on headphones.  And, yes, that's what I meant about how people spend their money.
  
 Also agreed the best way to pick audio gear is to try it.  It's not like buying a Mac laptop from the online Apple Store.  I've used Macs for decades and I know what to expect and if the new MacBook I want meets my criteria then I have no worries ordering it sight unseen.  And I've never been disappointed or upset with what's been delivered.  Audio equipment is completely different.  When I started messing around with audio gear in later high school and college there were several high-end audio shops in town and you could go try anything you wanted to try.  Now most of these shops are gone, all are gone where I live, and we have to order online.  Unless we have a friend or acquaintance who already has what we're interested in, yes, you're right, heading to the forums and asking questions is the only way to get a sense of whether or not it will suit our needs.
  
 I like the price and convenience and diversity of inventory of buying online but sometimes I really miss being able to try something, find I like it or something completely different, and buy it right there and go home with it.  But I don't buy books at bookstores anymore, either, and I used to enjoy that.  It's not US$2 or US$4 difference in price.  It's sometimes, even often, US$14 or US$16 difference in price and I read a lot so that adds up to a lot of money.  So I buy books online and sometimes wind up with books I don't really care for, no matter how great the online reviews were.


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## dunmaster

sanfordm said:


> Related to how you're thinking about patching up via the Onkyo, in theory a battery-powered DAC shouldn't be a power-drain issue.  But in practice iOS devices are picky.  If the DAC can charge over USB it might report to the master device in its profile that it may, potentially draw however much power while charging and that's too much for an iOS device to allow, so it doesn't allow the device's use even though at the time it's connected on battery power, not charging, it draws no or very little power.  DAC manufacturers CAN make their DACs iOS device compatible, but to be sure, to get access to acceptable power requirements and what the device should be report to the iOS device when it's connect via the Lightning connector, via a Lightning-to-USB adapter or directly via a Lightning connector, they'e got to be part of the "made for iOS" or "works with iOS" program.  There are fees involved with that.  It costs money.  Knowing Apple, and the fact they can demand a premium due to the popularity of iPod touches, iPhones and iPads, that fee is probably pretty high, whether it's a blanket fee or per device sold or manufactured.  So my FiiO E17 won't work -- you get the "uses too much power and can't be used" error message -- with my retina iPad mini even though you can turn off USB charging in the menus, eliminating excess power drain, because FiiO isn't part of Apple's licensed third-party device program so FiiO doesn't know the specifics of how to design the E17 so it consistently works with iOS devices with no tricks or hubs in between or anything like that. [...]


 
  
 From what I've understood from their site, it seems that when powered on from the battery, simply the usb power is excluded and no power will be drained from the source. In fact it states that "for ultimate sonics at home, it is also possible to run off the iUSB Power (via USB port) just by powering on the iDSD prior to connection to the PC." I assume that while running from battery, the battery itself won't be recharging, as the power flowing in would destroy the benefits of running from a clean power source.
 So if they've done things well, I suppose the recharging circuit switches off when on battery power, and the energy drained from usb is close to zero. That should create no problem with iOS warning "This device drains too much power", no?
  
 Anyway, I've found another "smarphone dac" that promises to substantially makes iPhone sound better. It's the Astell&Kern AK10. Unlike the iDSD nano, with this one you don't even need to buy the camera connection kit usb cable, as it is supplied with a lightning cable that connects directly to the iphone. Also, no app is required, it seems you can stream music directly from the stock iphone app or any other app. The only downside is that the maximum resolution on the iphone is 24bit - 48kHz. I assume that it uses another protocol to transmit data, but I don't know if the music goes through the iPhone dac before going to the external dac.
  
 In this respect, the iDSD seems to me the most complete package. The super high resolution files up to 6MHz shouldn't be touched by the iphone dac, as it's not able to decode them. So the only way to reproduce the songs is to bitstream them to the iDSD. Moreover, it's a fully functional usb dac that supports all the formats out there and has the option to run on battery power in order to eliminate any usb noise.
 The only concern, as you notice, may be the drained power, but i think that if they advertise that their product works with iPhone, i expect it to work without problem, as the company claims. Otherwise upset customers and online reviewer would destroy its reputaton.
  


> [...] Also agreed the best way to pick audio gear is to try it.  It's not like buying a Mac laptop from the online Apple Store.  I've used Macs for decades and I know what to expect and if the new MacBook I want meets my criteria then I have no worries ordering it sight unseen.  And I've never been disappointed or upset with what's been delivered.  Audio equipment is completely different.  When I started messing around with audio gear in later high school and college there were several high-end audio shops in town and you could go try anything you wanted to try.  Now most of these shops are gone, all are gone where I live, and we have to order online.  Unless we have a friend or acquaintance who already has what we're interested in, yes, you're right, heading to the forums and asking questions is the only way to get a sense of whether or not it will suit our needs.
> I like the price and convenience and diversity of inventory of buying online but sometimes I really miss being able to try something, find I like it or something completely different, and buy it right there and go home with it.  But I don't buy books at bookstores anymore, either, and I used to enjoy that.  It's not US$2 or US$4 difference in price.  It's sometimes, even often, US$14 or US$16 difference in price and I read a lot so that adds up to a lot of money.  So I buy books online and sometimes wind up with books I don't really care for, no matter how great the online reviews were.


 
  
 I've always been one of the stronger "promoter" of online commerce, but lately I'm reconsidering this position. There are some categories that we can buy sight unseen, a TV for example. Seeing it under the lights of a crowded shopping center, with totally random settings used, is the worst condition to evaluate the goodness of a tv. In this case the physical store experience does not help nor add anything to the decision.
 But there are a lot of other cases, like choosing an headphone, where trying before buying is fundamental and is an added value I'm willing to pay for. Ok, not when the price is doubled, but if it's that 10% more, i can accept it. Even Apple, with its Apple Stores, teaches us that letting people touch and feel their product is important to make them recognize the quality of Macs, iPhones, etc.. You are not a first time buyer, so you know what to expect when buying a mac, but a first time buyer may be reluctant to spend 1K $ in a pc that has similar tech specs of a common 500$ pc, but having the possibility to try it, in my opinion, has a great impact on his decision.
 People must perceive the quality difference between different products, they must be able to try them and these differences must be explained by prepared sales assistance. Otherwise, when an avg customer must make his decision in front of a wall full of boxes of headphones (or anything else), with obscure tech specs and strange numbers printed on them, he will make his decision on the only parameter that he understands: price.


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## Lvnatic

Hey I did some searching and came across this topic. I recently bought the momentums 2.0 over year on Black Friday for a really good deal. I expected more bass but I find them really monotonous. Will a portable amp increase bass and volume on an iPad Air 2 and galaxy note 3 (will upgrade to iPhone 6s early next year)?
I was looking at the fiio e12 Mont Blanc. Is it a good investment or I won't feel any significant improvement?


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## Whataudiophile

tim79b said:


> Hi All!
> 
> New blood here
> 
> ...


 

 Do we really need an amp as it is only 18ohms? Does your amp make huge difference to sound quality?


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## nightrider75

They don't _need _an amp, but upon getting the iPhone7, I found a really nice Lightning to 3.5mm, so for fun I ran the Momentums through the Head \stage Arrow 5TX.... And thats it for me, just.... beyond a perfect pairing; even been out of touch on this site because I'm good on gear for the foreseeable future


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